# Sticky  Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ



## bkdtv

[aname=S0]*Last Updated: August/12/2010.*[/aname]

*[Summary]* [jumpto=S2][Introduction][/jumpto] [jumpto=S3][Officially Supported External Drives][/jumpto] [jumpto=S4][Unsupported External Drives][/jumpto] [jumpto=S5][Internal Drive Upgrades][/jumpto]

This FAQ describes the methods available to increase the TiVo's storage capacity. The contents were compiled from member posts to this forum.

This FAQ is divided into four sections: (I) Summary of Expansion Options, (II) Introduction, (III) Officially Supported External Drives, (IV) Unsupported External Drives, and (V) Internal Drive Upgrades. This FAQ is a work in progress; if there is a question you feel should be added, or there is an answer that should be expanded or clarified, please post.

Special thanks to *spike* for creating the WinMFS program and to *richsadams* for his continued support of end-user upgrades.

_Disclaimer: TiVo had no involvement with this FAQ._

*[aname=S1]I. Summary of Expansion Options[/aname] *


 *TivoHD (TCD652160)*










 *Add the 1TB Western Digital "My DVR Expander" external drive (165 HD hours total)*

*Pros:* Takes 5 minutes. This option is quick and easy, *preserves* the TiVo warranty, and preserves all settings and recordings. Technical support is available if you need it.

*Cons:* At $180 online, it is rather pricey for a 1TB drive. "Plug and play" expansion does not work in TiVos with upgraded internal drives. Introduces potential second source of failure, since all recordings are split across both drives; if either drive goes bad, you lose all recordings made since the drive was added. Adds another device to your TV room.

_[jumpto=S3]See Section III for more information.[/jumpto]_

 *Replace the built-in 160GB drive with a 1.0 TB model (157 HD hours)*

*Pros:* Cost effective at $100-$110 for 1.0 TB. Preserves all settings and recordings. You keep the original TiVo drive as a backup. No extra devices in your TV room.

*Cons:* Takes 35-45 minutes. Requires you to open the box and void the TiVo warranty. "Plug and play" external drive expansion no longer works after you upgrade the built-in drive. No technical support is available for upgraded TiVos.

_[jumpto=S5]See Section V for more information.[/jumpto] Or jump directly to the [jumpto=drives]drive recommendations[/jumpto] or [jumpto=instructions]upgrade instructions[/jumpto]._

 *Add an unsupported 1.0 TB external drive (165 HD hours total)*

*Pros:* Cost effective at $110-$130 for external 1.0 TB. Preserves all settings and recordings.

*Cons:* Takes 35-45 minutes. Requires you to open the box and void the TiVo warranty. Introduces potential second source of failure, since all recordings are split across both drives; if either drive goes bad, you lose all recordings made since the drive was added. Adds another device to your TV room. No technical support is available for TiVos using external drives other than the My DVR Expander.

_[jumpto=S4]See Section IV for more information.[/jumpto]_

 *Replace the built-in 160GB drive with a 1.0 TB model and add an unsupported 1.0 TB external drive (300-318 HD hours total)*

*Pros:* Cost effective at $100-$110 per 1TB. Preserves all settings and recordings. You keep the original TiVo drive as a backup.

*Cons:* Takes 45-60 minutes. Requires you to open the box and void the TiVo warranty. Introduces potential second source of failure, since all recordings are split across both drives; if either drive goes bad, you lose all recordings. "Plug and play" external drive expansion no longer works after you upgrade the built-in drive. Adds another device to your TV room. No technical support is available for upgraded TiVos.

_[jumpto=S4]See Section IV for more information.[/jumpto]_

 *Replace a "dead" or "failing" TiVo drive with a new drive up to 1.0 TB in size (144 HD hours).*

If your original TiVo drive fails and you don't have a backup, you can still replace it and perform an upgrade at the same time.

DVRUpgrade sells the *InstantCake restore CD* for $39.99. This restore CD includes a copy of the original TiVo software which it will restore to a new drive up to 1.0TiB in size.

DVRUpgrade also sells new replacement drives with the TiVo software preinstalled. These drive replacement kits include all the tools necessary to replace the original drive.

 *TivoHD XL (TCD658000)*

 *Add the 1TB Western Digital "My DVR Expander" external drive (300 HD hours total)*

*Pros:* Takes 5 minutes. This option is quick and easy, *preserves* the TiVo warranty, and preserves all settings and recordings. Technical support is available if you need it.

*Cons:* At $180 online, it is rather pricey for a 1TB drive. "Plug and play" expansion does not work in TiVos with upgraded internal drives. Introduces potential second source of failure, since all recordings are split across both drives; if either drive goes bad, you lose all recordings made since the drive was added. Adds another device to your TV room.

_[jumpto=S3]See Section III for more information.[/jumpto]_

 *Replace the built-in 1.0 TB drive with a 2.0 TB model (300 HD hours)*

*Pros:* You're the envy of TiVo users everywhere. Preserves all settings and recordings. You keep the original TiVo drive as a backup. No extra devices in your TV room.

*Cons:* Takes 35-45 minutes. Very limited selection of 2TB drives, and they sell for around $300. Requires you to open the box and void the TiVo warranty. "Plug and play" external drive expansion no longer works after you upgrade the built-in drive. No technical support is available for upgraded TiVos.

_[jumpto=S5]See Section V for more information.[/jumpto] Or jump directly to the [jumpto=drives]drive recommendations[/jumpto] or [jumpto=instructions]upgrade instructions[/jumpto]._

 *Add an unsupported 1.0 TB external drive (300-318 HD hours total)*

*Pros:* Cost effective at $110-$130 for external 1TB. Preserves all settings and recordings.

*Cons:* Takes 35-45 minutes. Requires you to open the box and void the TiVo warranty. Introduces potential second source of failure, since all recordings are split across both drives; if either drive goes bad, you lose all recordings made since the drive was added. Adds another device to your TV room. No technical support is available for TiVos using external drives other than the My DVR Expander.

_[jumpto=S4]See Section IV for more information.[/jumpto]_

 *TiVo Series3 (TCD648250B)*










 *Add the Western Digital "My DVR Expander" external drive (179 HD hours total)*

*Pros:* Takes 5 minutes. This option is quick and easy, *preserves* the TiVo warranty, and preserves all settings and recordings. Technical support is available if you need it.

*Cons:* At $180 online, it is rather pricey for a 1TB drive. "Plug and play" expansion does not work in TiVos with upgraded internal drives. Introduces potential second source of failure, since all recordings are split across both drives; if either drive goes bad, you lose all recordings made since the drive was added. Adds another device to your TV room.

_[jumpto=S3]See Section III for more information.[/jumpto]_

 *Replace the built-in 250GB drive with a 1.0 TB model (157 HD hours)*

*Pros:* Cost effective at $100-$110 for 1TB. Preserves all settings and recordings. You keep the original TiVo drive as a backup. No extra devices in your TV room.

*Cons:* Takes 35-45 minutes. Requires you to open the box and void the TiVo warranty. "Plug and play" external drive expansion no longer works after you upgrade the built-in drive. No technical support is available for upgraded TiVos.

_[jumpto=S5]See Section V for more information.[/jumpto] Or jump directly to the [jumpto=drives]drive recommendations[/jumpto] or [jumpto=instructions]upgrade instructions[/jumpto]._

 *Add an unsupported 1.0 TB external drive (176 HD hours total)*

*Pros:* Takes 5 minutes. This option is quick and easy, preserves the TiVo warranty, and preserves all settings and recordings. Cost effective at $110-$130 for external 1TB.

*Cons:* Introduces potential second source of failure, since all recordings are split across both drives; if either drive goes bad, you lose all recordings made since drive was added. Adds another device to your TV room. No technical support is available for TiVos using external drives other than the My DVR Expander.

_[jumpto=S4]See Section IV for more information.[/jumpto]_

 *Replace the built-in 250GB drive with a 1.0 TB model and add an unsupported 1.0 TB external drive (300-318 HD hours total)*

*Pros:* Cost effective at $100-$110 per 1TB. Preserves all settings and recordings. You keep the original TiVo drive as a backup.

*Cons:* Takes 45-60 minutes. Requires you to open the box and void the TiVo warranty. Introduces potential second source of failure, since all recordings are split across both drives; if either drive goes bad, you lose all recordings. "Plug and play" external drive expansion no longer works after you upgrade the built-in drive. Adds another device to your TV room. No technical support is available for upgraded TiVos.

_[jumpto=S4]See Section IV for more information.[/jumpto]_

 *Replace a "dead" or "failing" TiVo drive with a new drive up to 1.0 TB in size (144 HD hours).*

If your original TiVo drive fails and you don't have a backup, you can still replace it and perform an upgrade at the same time.

DVRUpgrade sells the *InstantCake restore CD* for $39.99. This restore CD includes a copy of the original TiVo software which it will restore to a new drive up to 1.0TiB in size.

DVRUpgrade also sells new replacement drives with the TiVo software preinstalled. These drive replacement kits include all the tools necessary to replace the original drive.

Note "HD hours" represents TiVo's conservative _estimate_ for that capacity. In typical use, you will see 1.1x to 1.3x that amount, and potentially much more if you do a significant percentage of your recording from movie channels.

*[aname=S2]II. [/aname]Introduction [jumpto=S0][Back to top][/jumpto]*


* When did TiVo add official eSATA external drive support?*

TiVo added official "plug and play" eSATA support with the release of the 9.2 software in October, 2007. If you just bought a new TiVo, it should receive the latest software (v11.0) within one week.

* What drives does TiVo officially support with eSATA drive expansion?*

TiVo officially supports the Western Digital "My DVR Expander." This product is currently available in a 1TB version.

The Western Digital "My DVR Expander" 1TB (part# WDG1S10000N) adds 144 HD hours and is available from J&R Music World for $129 and Best Buy for $169. This increases capacity to 165 HD hours on the TivoHD and 300 HD hours on the TivoHD XL.

On the TivoHD and TivoHD XL, the Western Digital "My DVR Expander" is the *only external drive* that will work without opening the unit and voiding the warranty.

_Do *not* confuse the "My DVR Expander" with a "My Book." They are different products. TiVo does not support any "My Book" drives._

*Can I upgrade from the 500GB My DVR Expander to the 1TB version and preserve my recordings?*

No. All recordings made after the My DVR Expander was added are split across the internal and external drives. Removing a My DVR Expander results in the loss of all recordings made since it was added.

There is no way to backup recordings from a 500GB to a 1TB Expander, besides transferring them to another TiVo with MRV and/or downloading them to your computer. Once recordings are transferred to another TiVo with MRV, or downloaded to a computer, they can be transferred back to the TiVo with the new 1TB My DVR Expander.

*Can I use a different eSATA drive? What if I am not satisfied with 1.0TB?*

With the TivoHD and TivoHD XL, the Western Digital My DVR Expander is the *only* eSATA drive that will work with the "plug and play" expansion. Other drives can be made to work, but only by opening the unit and voiding the warranty; instructions to do that can be found in [jumpto=S4]Section IV[/jumpto] of this FAQ.

With the discontinued TiVo Series3, you *can* add your own eSATA drive *up to 1.1 TB* in size*. If you aren't using the My DVR Expander, an _unmodified_ Series3 will warn you that the drive is not officially supported, but you will still be given the choice to enable it. That option is not available on the TiVoHD and TivoHD XL.









TiVo Series3 has an orange OLED display. TivoHD and TivoHD XL do not.

If you don't know whether you have a TiVoHD, TivoHD XL, or TiVo Series3, you can can tell by looking at the front of the unit. The TiVo Series3 has an orange OLED screen on the front of the case, whereas the TivoHD and TivoHD XL do not.

Disclaimer
* Reboots will result if you attempt to use any drive larger than 1.1 TB with the "plug and play" expansion on the Series3. You can use a drive larger than 1.1 TB (1.0 TiB), but only by opening the unit and voiding the warranty. Note some retail drives, including My Books, are incompatible with the Series3 and cannot be used. See [jumpto=S4]Section IV[/jumpto], FAQ #4 and #5 for information.

Note TiVo cannot guarantee compatibility with drives other than the Western Digital My DVR Expander. If you have problems with other external drives, you are on your own.

*Why does the new "plug and play" eSATA expansion work with other drives on the Series3, but not the TiVoHD or TivoHD XL?*



TiVoPony said:


> The backdoor that allowed any eSATA drive to work with the Series3 was not intended for public consumption. Once it got out though, there was little we could do short of disabling all the drives the community had already purchased and installed. That would have been unpleasant for everyone, so the Series3 is grandfathered to work with non-verified eSATA drives via the eSATA menus. We will not provide any support however for non-verified drives, or any issues that arise from having used one.
> 
> There wasn't a backdoor for the TiVo HD platform, nor will there be one. The TiVo Verified solutions are the way to go with a TiVo HD. I'd recommend it for the Series3 as well!


Other external drives can be made to work on the TivoHD and TivoHD XL, but only by opening the unit and voiding the warranty; instructions to do that can be found in [jumpto=unsupportedexternal]Section IV, #10[/jumpto].

*Can I add an eSATA drive if I previously upgraded the hard drive in my TiVo?*

The new "plug and play" eSATA expansion support does *not* work if you upgrade the built-in drive on the TiVoHD and Series3.

You can still add an eSATA drive to an upgraded TiVo, but doing so requires you to open the box and void the warranty. Instructions to do that can also be found in [jumpto=unsupportedexternal]Section IV, #10[/jumpto].

*Can I add an eSATA drive to upgraded TiVos purchased from Weaknees, DVRUpgrade, and other third parties?*

As per the previous FAQ, the new "plug and play" eSATA expansion support does *not* work on any upgraded TiVo. That includes all upgraded TiVos sold by Weaknees and DVRUpgrade. It does not matter who does the upgrade.

You can still add an eSATA drive to an upgraded TiVo, but doing so requires you to open the box and void the warranty. Instructions to do that can be found in [jumpto=unsupportedexternal]Section IV, #10[/jumpto] of this FAQ.

*I already have a My DVR Expander connected. Can I upgrade the TiVo's built-in drive, without losing the recordings on the external drive?*

No. You cannot upgrade the TiVo's built-in drive without losing all recordings on the external drive. You cannot upgrade the built-in drive until you disconnect and remove the My DVR Expander.

You can transfer _unprotected_ recordings to another TiVo with MRV and/or download them to your computer. Once recordings are transferred to another TiVo with MRV, or downloaded to a computer, you can transfer them back to the TiVo after the new drive upgrade.

Once you upgrade the built-in drive, the TiVo's "play and play" drive expansion no longer works.

*Can I use eSATA expansion with the Series2?*

No. Only the TivoHD, TivoHD XL, and TiVo Series3 support eSATA expansion.

TiVo does not support external drives on the TiVo Series2.

*How do I to add an eSATA drive to the TiVo?*

Disconnect power to the TiVo.

 Connect the eSATA drive to your TiVo with the eSATA cable. Confirm that the eSATA cable is firmly inserted on both the TiVo and your eSATA drive.

 Connect the power to your eSATA drive. Then reconnect power to your TiVo.

 Enable the eSATA drive through the Settings -> Remote, CableCARD, and Devices -> External Storage menu.

_Note this only works for the officially supported Western Digital My DVR Expander on the TivoHD. Only the discontinued TiVo Series3 supports plug and play expansion with any drive._

*What happened to the "kickstart62" method?*

That is no longer available. It was replaced with the new External Storage menu.










*How long does it take to enable an eSATA drive?*

It takes about 30 seconds to enable the drive through the External Storage menu, and then another ~5 minutes for the TiVo to complete the process with a reboot.

Screenshots: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5.

*How do I use the new storage?*

Once enabled, eSATA storage is seamlessly integrated. Your TiVo appears as if it has a single, larger hard drive. You can check your total capacity on the System Information screen.










*Do I lose any recordings or settings when an eSATA drive is added?*

You do not lose anything by adding a drive.

*Do I lose any recordings or settings when an eSATA drive is removed?*

Programs recorded after the eSATA drive is added are lost when you remove the drive. But you do not lose your season passes, wishlists, and other settings when you remove the drive.

*What is the maximum capacity supported?*

_Credit to spike -- the author of WinMFS -- for clarifying this subject._

The maximum total internal + external capacity for every high-definition TiVo is *2.2 TB (2.0 TiB)*.

The TivoHD (TCD652160) and TivoHD XL (TCD658000) both require you to open the unit and void the warranty to use an external drive other than the My DVR Expander.

Only the discontinued TiVo Series3 (TCD648250B) allows you to use the external drive of your choice -- *up to 1.1 TB in size* -- without opening the unit and voiding the warranty. Reboots will result if you attempt to use a drive larger than 1.1 TB with the "plug and play" expansion.

If you open the unit and void the warranty, the maximum capacity allowed for an internal or external TiVo drive is 1.1 TB (1.0 TiB) *plus* the capacity of the original drive. If you were to replace the built-in TiVo drive with a 2.0 TB drive, the full 2.0 TB would be usable on a TivoHD XL, but only 1.26 TB would be usable on the TivoHD. Refer to the table below.



Code:


              [u]Model Number[/u]    [u]Maximum Single Drive Capacity[/u]
Tivo HD       TCD652160       1.26 TB[color=green]*[/color] (1260 GB)
Tivo HD XL    TCD658000       2.10 TB[color=green]*[/color] (2100 GB)
TiVo Series3  TCD648250B      1.35 TB* (1350 GB)

              [u]Model Number[/u]    [u]Maximum Dual (Internal+External) Drive Capacity[/u]
Tivo HD       TCD652160       2.20 TB[color=green]*[/color] (2200 GB)
Tivo HD XL    TCD658000       2.20 TB[color=green]*[/color] (2200 GB)
TiVo Series3  TCD648250B      2.20 TB[color=green]*[/color] (2200 GB)

[size=1]* The "plug and play" external drive expansion on the TiVo Series3 only works with drives up to 1.1 TB
  in size.  To make use of 1.35 TB, you would need to open the unit and void the warranty.

[color=green]*[/color] These configurations all require you to open the DVR and void the warranty.  Without opening the DVR,
  the maximum internal+external capacities on the TivoHD, TivoHD XL, and original TiVo Series3 are
  1.16TB, 2.0TB, and 1.35TB,  respectively.  On the TivoHD and TivoHD XL, this is accomplished using
  the 1.0TB My DVR Expander.  On the TiVo Series3, this is accomplished by using any external drive
  up to 1.1TB in size.[/size]


*I just bought a TiVo. Do I need to activate service before I connect the eSATA drive?*

_Credit to spike -- the author of WinMFS -- for this tip._

On the TivoHD, you must have an active subscription before the "plug and play" drive expansion will work. On the discontinued TiVo Series3, you can connect an eSATA drive before you subscribe.

*I already added an eSATA drive under the 8.x software. Will it continue working with 11.0?*

Yes. If you added an unsupported eSATA drive to the TiVoHD or Series3 in 8.x, it will continue working under 11.0.

If you disconnect the drive, you should be able to add it again to the Series3, but once removed, only "TiVo Verified" drives -- like the Western Digital My Expander -- can be added back to the TiVoHD using the "plug and play" eSATA expansion.

*What happens if the eSATA drive is disconnected?*

If you disconnect the eSATA drive, the TiVo will reboot and give you two options (1) reconnect the drive, or (2) press CLEAR to remove the drive and delete all programs recorded since the external drive was added.










If you need to disconnect the eSATA drive, it is recommended that you disconnect the power to the TiVo first.

 *Can I use a USB hard drive?*

No. Only eSATA drives are supported. A USB -> eSATA adapter will not work.

 *Can I view the recordings on the eSATA drive with my PC?*

No. All recordings are encrypted, as required by the CableLabs' licensing agreement (page 30).

 *Can I swap between multiple eSATA drives to multiply my capacity?*

No. When you connect an eSATA drive to the TiVo, that drive is "married" to the built-in hard drive. Only one eSATA drive can be "married" to the TiVo's built-in hard drive at any given time. You can remove an eSATA drive and replace it with another, but then you lose access to the recordings made on that drive.

 *I have two TiVo DVRs, can I move my eSATA drive between them without losing my recordings?*

No. The eSATA drive is "married" to a specific TiVo, and cannot be used with more than one TiVo at a time. Recordings are not viewable on another unit. You can move an eSATA drive from one TiVo to another, but doing so will delete any recordings stored on that drive.

 *Why do recordings still show the yellow exclamation point with the message, "This recording may be deleted to make room for other programs" when only half my space is used?*

The TiVo always displays the yellow exclamation point (!) 24 hours after the "keep until" time expires. That does *not* mean your recording will be deleted soon. The yellow ball with the exclamation point only means that it is no longer protected, and can be deleted once it is the oldest recording on the DVR and space is needed for a new recording.

The TiVo will never delete anything unless space is needed for a new recording scheduled by the user. When space is needed for a new recording, the TiVo will first clear the _Recently Deleted_ and _Suggestions_ folders. Once the the _Recently Deleted_ and _Suggestions_ folders are empty, the TiVo will delete the oldest recording on the DVR that isn't marked as "keep until I delete."

When space is needed for a new recording, programs are deleted in the following order:

_Recently Deleted_ folder - cleared starting with oldest program first; nothing else is deleted until this folder is clear;
 _Suggestions_ folder -- cleared starting with oldest program first; nothing else is deleted until this folder is clear;
 The oldest show on the DVR that is not marked as "keep until [date]" or "keep until I delete."

If the oldest recording on the DVR is one that you would like to save, select it and mark it as "keep until I delete." The TiVo will then skip that recording and delete the next oldest instead.

*How do I remove an eSATA drive?*

 Disconnect power to the TiVo.

 Disconnect and remove your eSATA drive.

 Reconnect the power to your TiVo.

 The TiVo will display a message stating that your eSATA drive was disconnected. It will ask you to reconnect the drive, or press CLEAR to remove it.

 Once you press CLEAR, the TiVo will ask you to press THUMBS DOWN three times and ENTER to confirm. The TiVo will reboot and the drive is removed.









More screenshots: #1, #2, #3.

Note when you remove an eSATA drive, you will lose all recordings made since the drive was added.

*Where is the original Series3 eSATA FAQ?*

The previous FAQ for unofficial Series3 eSATA support in 8.3.x can be found here.

 *What if I just want to upgrade the internal drive in my TiVo?*

You can do that. However, be aware that a drive upgrade will void your warranty, and TiVo does not provide technical support for upgraded TiVos.

Note the TiVo's "plug and play" external drive expansion will no longer work if you upgrade or replace the internal drive. If you still want will to do an internal drive upgrade, see [jumpto=instructions]the instructions[/jumpto] in [jumpto=S5]Section V[/jumpto].

*[aname=S3]III.[/aname] Officially Supported External Drives (also known as "TiVo Verified" drives) [jumpto=S0][Back to top][/jumpto]*

_This section is devoted to officially supported expansion drives._


*What drives does TiVo officially support?*

At this time, TiVo only supports the Western Digital "My DVR Expander." This product is currently available in a 1.0TB version.

On the TivoHD and TivoHD XL, the Western Digital "My DVR Expander" is the *only external drive* that will work without opening the unit and voiding the warranty.

* Does TiVo provide technical support if I have trouble with the My DVR Expander?*

Yes. [Or at least, they try.]

*Where can I buy the Western Digital My DVR Expander?*

The 1TB version (part# WDG1S10000N) is available from J&R Music World for $129 and Best Buy for $169.

The older 500GB version is discontinued.

*How much high-definition recording time do I get with the My DVR Expander?*

The 1.0TB version (part# WDG1S10000N) adds 144 HD hours. This increases capacity to 165 HD hours on the TivoHD, 179 HD hours on the Series3, and 300 HD hours on the TivoHD XL.

The discontinued 500GB version (part# WDG1S5000VN) adds 71 HD hours. This increases capacity to 93 HD hours on the TivoHD, 104 HD hours on the Series3, and 228 HD hours on the TivoHD XL.

*Can I upgrade from the 500GB My DVR Expander to the 1TB version and preserve my recordings?*

No. All recordings made after the My DVR Expander was added are split across the internal and external drives. Removing a My DVR Expander results in the loss of all recordings made since it was added.

There is no way to backup recordings from a 500GB to a 1TB Expander, besides transferring them to another TiVo with MRV and/or downloading them to your computer. Once recordings are transferred to another TiVo with MRV, or downloaded to a computer, they can be transferred back to the TiVo with the new 1TB My DVR Expander.

*Does it make a lot of noise?*

The Western Digital My DVR Expander is tuned for low-noise DVR applications. Most people do not hear it over their TiVo.

*Does it electricity does it consume?*

The Western Digital My DVR Expander consumes ~12 watts.

*How do I use the new storage?*

Once added, eSATA storage is seamlessly integrated. Your TiVo appears as if it has a single, larger hard drive. You can check your total capacity on the System Information screen.

*Do I lose any recordings or settings when the My DVR Expander is added?*

You do not lose anything by adding a drive.

*How do I add the My DVR Expander to the TiVo?*

Disconnect power to the TiVo.

 Connect the My DVR Expander to your TiVo with the eSATA cable. Confirm that the eSATA cable is firmly inserted on both the TiVo and your drive.

 Connect the power to the drive. Then reconnect power to your TiVo.

 Enable the eSATA drive through the Settings -> Remote, CableCARD, and Devices -> External Storage menu.









More Screenshots: #1, #2, #3.

*How do I remove the My DVR Expander?*

 Disconnect power to the TiVo.

 Disconnect and remove the drive.

 Reconnect the power to your TiVo.

 The TiVo will display a message stating that your eSATA drive was disconnected. It will ask you to reconnect the drive, or press CLEAR to remove it.

 Once you press CLEAR, the TiVo will ask you to press THUMBS DOWN three times and ENTER to confirm. The TiVo will reboot and the drive is removed.

Screenshots: #1, #2, #3.

Note when you remove an eSATA drive, you will lose all recordings made since the drive was added.

*Do I lose any recordings or settings when the My DVR Expander is removed?*

Programs recorded *after* the eSATA drive was added are lost when you remove the drive. But you do not lose your season passes, wishlists, and other settings when you remove the drive.

*I just bought a TiVo. Do I need to activate service before I connect the My DVR Expander?*

_Credit to spike -- the author of WinMFS -- for this tip._

On the TivoHD, you must have an active subscription before you can connect the My DVR Expander. On the discontinued TiVo Series3, you can connect the My DVR Expander before you subscribe.

*What are the dimensions?*

You can set the drive upright as shown in this photo. When set upright, the dimensions are 6.8"H by 2.25"H by 5.5"D.

You can also set the drive flat with the WD logo on top and the dimensions are 2.25"H by 6.8"W by 5.5"D.

*Do I have to worry about power outages? I heard that can cause problems for some eSATA drives.*

There is no need to worry. The Western Digital My DVR Expander is "always on."

The My DVR Expander is 'on' and ready to go within seconds of having power. If your power is cycled (goes out briefly) due to a blown fuse or rolling blackout, the drive is ready well before the TiVo looks for it.

*Can I use this product with the TiVo Series2?*

No. Only the TivoHD, TivoHD XL, and TiVo Series3 support eSATA expansion.

*If I have a TiVo Series3, why should I buy this drive and not another eSATA drive?*

Four reasons:

 Reliability

Most retail eSATA products are intended for PCs and not designed for 24/7 operation. They use enclosures that were not designed to dissipate the heat created from constant writing to disk, which is exactly what a DVR does. When the drives in these products overheat, drive corruption can result, leading to reboots and/or lost recordings.

 Noise

Most retail eSATA products are not tuned for low-noise applications. Many of these products produce noise output that _significantly_ exceeds the TiVo.

 Cable compatibility

Most retail eSATA products include a eSATA cable with a connector that is not sufficiently long to establish a stable and reliable connection with the TiVo. In some cases, the TiVo will not work with these cables at all. In other cases, the TiVo works with these cables, but file corruption can result, resulting in reboots and/or lost recordings.

 Official TiVo support

If you have problems with the "TiVo Verified" Western Digital DVR Expander, then TiVo provides technical support. They are able to do this because they _know_ that it will work reliably with the TiVo, having tested it extensively.

The "TiVo Verified" Western Digital DVR Expander uses a hard drive and firmware designed specifically for DVR applications. The specialized firmware minimizes seek noise and uses error handling routines appropriate for DVR applications. The product includes an eSATA cable that works well with the TiVo.

That's not to say you couldn't build your own eSATA solution for the TiVo Series3 using a bare drive, the appropriate case, and the right eSATA cable, but most other retail eSATA drives should be avoided.

*I just saw a My DVR Expander with USB. Is that the right model for the TiVo?*

No, it is not. The My DVR Expanders for the TivoHD use eSATA.

The two compatible models are the WDG1S5000VN (500GB) and WDG1S10000N (1 TB).

*Can I replace the drive in the My DVR Expander's enclosure and still maintain compatibility with the TivoHD?*

No.

There is nothing special about the "My DVR Expander" enclosure. The *specific drive* in that enclosure is identified by the TivoHD software as compatible. You cannot replace the drive in the "My DVR Expander" with another drive and maintain compatibility with the TivoHD, because then you would be replacing the one thing that makes it compatible.

Below is the list of drives found inside the 500GB and 1TB My DVR Expander. These are the only drive models and firmwares that support "plug and play" external drive expansion.



Code:


{model=WDC WD5000AVJS-63TRA0 | fwrev=12.01C01 | bits=0x00000000} 
{model=WDC WD5000AVVS-63ZWB0 | fwrev=01.01B01 | bits=0x00000000}
{model=WDC WD5000AVVS-63H0B1 | fwrev=05.04C05 | bits=0x00000000}
{model=WDC WD10EVVS-63E1B1   | fwrev=01.01A01 | bits=0x00000000}

Note the TiVo Series3 -- but not the TivoHD or TivoHD XL-- will work with just about any drive in any enclosure. Some drives and enclosures are more reliable than others. See [jumpto=S4]Section IV[/jumpto] for more information on unsupported solutions.

*Can I replace the TiVo's built-in drive, without losing the recordings on the external drive?*

No. You cannot upgrade the TiVo's built-in drive without losing all recordings on the external drive. You cannot upgrade the built-in drive until you disconnect and remove the My DVR Expander.

You can transfer _unprotected_ recordings to another TiVo with MRV and/or download them to your computer. Once recordings are transferred to another TiVo with MRV, or downloaded to a computer, you can transfer them back to the TiVo after the new drive upgrade.

Once you upgrade the built-in drive, the TiVo's "play and play" drive expansion no longer works.

*[aname=S4]IV.[/aname] Unsupported External Drives (also known as "Non-Verified" drives) [jumpto=S0][Back to top][/jumpto]*

_This section is devoted to expansion drives and methods not supported by TiVo._


* Can I use any eSATA drive I want?*

That depends...

If you have a TiVo Series3 and did *not* upgrade the built-in hard drive, then most eSATA drives up to 1.1 TB (1.0 TiB) in size can be enabled using the new External Storage menu. If that describes your situation, see FAQ #7.

If you have a TiVoHD or already upgraded the built-in drive on your Series3, then the new External Storage menu will not work with unsupported drives. You would need to use the unsupported method described in FAQ #10 below to add a drive up to 1.26TB in size.

If you decide that you would rather upgrade the TiVo's built-in drive instead, then see [jumpto=instructions]the instructions[/jumpto] in [jumpto=S5]Section V[/jumpto]. If you want to upgrade the built-in drive *and* add an eSATA drive, then see the instructions in [jumpto=internalexternal]FAQ #11[/jumpto] below.

* Does TiVo provide technical support if I have trouble with these drives?*

No. TiVo only provides technical support for "TiVo Verified" drives like the My DVR Expander.

*Does TiVo know if I use an unsupported drive?*

Yes. When you attach an unsupported drive, that information is reported to TiVo when your box connects to download guide information.

*If I want to use my own eSATA drive, what issues should I be aware of?*

 Some retail eSATA products are incompatible with the TiVo. See FAQ #5 below for a list.

 Many retail eSATA products are intended for PCs and not designed for 24/7 operation. They use enclosures that were not designed to dissipate the heat created from constant writing to disk, which is exactly what a DVR does. When the drives in these products overheat, drive corruption can result, leading to reboots and/or lost recordings.

 Many retail eSATA drives sold for PCs are not designed with low-noise applications in mind.

 Many retail eSATA products -- like some WD My Books -- include a eSATA cable with a connector that is too short to establish a stable and reliable connection with the TiVo. In some cases, the TiVo will not work with these cables at all. In other cases, the TiVo works with these cables, but file corruption will result, resulting in reboots and/or lost recordings.

 The maximum external capacity supported by the "plug and play" expansion on the Series3 is 1.1 TB (1.0 TB). Reboots will result if you attempt to use any drive larger than 1.1 TB with the "plug and play" expansion. You can use a drive larger than 1.1 TB (1.0 TiB), but only by opening the unit and voiding the warranty.

 The maximum combined internal + external capacity for every high-definition TiVo is 2.2 TB (2.0 TiB).

Most retail eSATA products should be avoided. And if you do buy a retail eSATA drive, chances are you will need a new eSATA cable before it will work reliably (if at all). You can find a list of compatible cables in FAQ #26.

If you don't mind giving up technical support, you can build your own eSATA solution with a bare drive, eSATA case, and eSATA cable. If you use the right drive, the right case, and the right cable, you should be able to build a stable and reliable solution for your TiVo Series3. For recommendations on that, see FAQ #25.

*What retail drives do not work with the TiVo?*

Based on member reports, the My Book Home Edition (320GB - 1TB) eSATA drive is incompatible with the TiVo and cannot be used. The bridge chip built into that product's enclosure is believed to be responsible for the incompatibility, because if you remove the bare drive from the enclosure and install it in another, it will work.

Some other retail eSATA drives include eSATA cables that do not work reliably with the TiVo, but that is typically fixed by adding a cable from FAQ #26.

 *How much high-definition recording time do I get with a 500GB eSATA drive? With 1TB?*

High-definition programming consumes up to 8.6GB per hour, but most high-definition programming requires less. With a 500GB eSATA drive, the TiVo Series3 will report 104 HD hours and the TivoHD will report 93 HD hours. With a 1TB eSATA drive, the Tivo Series3 will report an estimated 176 HD hours and the TivoHD will report 165 HD hours. In real world use, usable storage will vary from 1.2x to 1.5x that amount, depending on what channels you record.

The TiVo System Information screen reports expected capacity during typical use as follows:


Code:


[b]TiVo System Information: Variable Recording Capacity, Hours[/b]

                [u] High Definition [/u]      [u]Standard Definition[/u]

[b][u]eSATA[/u]           [u]Series3[/u]     [u]TiVoHD[/u]      [u]Series3[/u]   [u]TiVoHD[/u][/b]
None               32         [I]21[/I]           303       184
120GB              47          ?           445         ?
250GB              65          ?            ?          ?
300GB              71          ?           673         ?
500GB             [I]104[/I]         [I]93[/I]           [I]927[/I]       [I]810[/I]
750GB             131          ?          1244         ?
800GB             138          ?             ?         ?
1 TB              [I]176[/I]        [I]165[/I]          [I]1561 [/I]     [I]1444[/I]

TiVo changed how it estimated storage capacity in the 11.0 software released in December, 2008. The numbers in _italics_ reflect reported capacity under 11.x.

Note the above values are for external drive upgrades. Reported capacity for internal drive upgrades will be different. A 1TB internal drive upgrade with the MfsSuperSize setting applied will report 157 HD hours and 1367 SD hours under the latest TiVo software.

*How do I add an eSATA drive to an unmodified Series3?*

Disconnect power to the TiVo.

 Connect the eSATA drive to your TiVo with the eSATA cable. Confirm that the eSATA cable is firmly inserted on both the TiVo and your eSATA drive.

 Connect the power to your eSATA drive. Then reconnect power to your TiVo.

 Enable the eSATA drive through the Settings -> Remote, CableCARD, and Devices -> External Storage menu. _Screenshots: #1, #2, #3._

These instructions also apply when adding Western Digital's My DVR Expander to an _unmodified_ TivoHD.

 *Do I need to format the drive before I connect it to the Series3?*

No. There is no disk preparation required of any kind. The TiVo Series3 will automatically repartition and format the drive.

*What happened to the "kickstart62" method in 8.3.x?*

That is no longer available. It was replaced with the External Storage menu in 9.2.

*[aname=unsupportedexternal]What[/aname] is the method to add an eSATA drive if I previously upgraded my TiVo?*

These steps are unnecessary if you are adding Western Digital's My DVR Expander to an unmodified TivoHD. In that case, just follow the instructions in FAQ #7.

If building your own eSATA drive, be sure to see FAQ #25 for drive, cable, and enclosure recommendations.

This method requires that you remove the TiVo's internal drive, connect it to your PC, and use the WinMFS or the MFSLive software. It is not difficult, but it does require some time. Instructions are below.



> You should temporarily disable any antivirus or security software prior to adding an external drive. Some security / antivirus software can interfere with the process.
> 
> 
> Obtain torx screwdrivers in the T10 and T15 sizes. The T10 must have at least a 2.5" shaft and a magnetic tip is preferable.
> 
> If you don't have a torx T10 screwdriver with a 2.5" shaft, you can purchase the Star Driver T10 Ampro (part #9014713) from Advance Auto Parts for about $4. Another choice is the Craftsman Torx Screwdriver T10 (part #47180) for $7 from Sears or one its subsidiaries, such as KMart, Sears Hardware, or Orchard Supply Hardware. These stores should also sell torx screwdrivers in the T15 size.
> 
> Remove the six cover screws (picture) from the rear of the case using the torx T10 screwdriver. Put the screws in a safe place.
> 
> Place the TiVo on a flat surface such as a desk or counter top.
> 
> With the front of the Tivo facing you, slide the top cover around 1/4 inch toward the rear (away from you) until it appears to stop traveling.
> 
> Grab the top cover in the lower front corner on both sides and pull outward on both sides just a little and the cover will slide the rest of the way off.
> 
> Remove the four screws holding the drive cradle to the TiVo (picture) with the torx T10 screwdriver. After removing the screws, disconnect the SATA cable and power cable from the drive. Put the screws in a safe place.
> 
> Remove the four screws that hold the drive to the drive cradle with the torx T15 screwdriver. Set the drive aside and put the screws in a safe place.
> 
> Turn off your computer and connect your internal SATA drive and the new external SATA drive. You can open your computer and connect both with SATA cables, or you can connect them both externally using a pair of SATA->USB adapters *or* a dual drive dock. If you are connecting a retail eSATA drive to the SATA port on your PC, you will also need a SATA -> eSATA cable such as the SIIG CB-SA0311-S1 (Buy.com, TheNerds.net, or ProVantage.com) or the PPA Int'l 3848 (Newegg.com).
> 
> Both drives should be connected to your PC at the same time.
> 
> To "marry" the built-in drive and external eSATA drive for use in the TiVo:
> 
> If you have a PC running Windows XP (SP2/SP3) or Windows Vista (32bit or 64bit), download the latest version of WinMFS here. You'll need to register on that site (no cost) to see the download icon.
> 
> Extract (i.e. unzip) the downloaded ZIP file to give you the actual WinMFS program. To do that, double-click on the file and drag the WinMFS program to your desktop.
> 
> Turn on your computer and launch WinMFS in Windows. If using Windows Vista, you'll want to launch WinMFS by right-clicking on WinMFS.exe and selecting "*Run as Administrator*."
> 
> Note the TiVo drive will not appear in Windows Explorer. That is normal and intended. WinMFS will always see drives that are connected correctly, provided you run it as administrator.
> 
> In WinMFS, select _File -> Select Drive_ and select the two drives you attached. Set 'Drive A' to the TiVo's built-in drive and 'Drive B' to the external drive.
> 
> Select Tools -> Mfsadd.
> 
> If you don't have a PC running Windows XP (SP2/SP3) or Windows Vista (32bit or 64bit), then you'll need to use the MFSLive Linux Boot CD image. You can download that here. Burn that image to CD.
> 
> _Be aware that the MFSLive Linux Boot CD does not support drives larger than 1.1TB (1.0 TiB). If you want to use a drive larger than 1.1TB, then you must use WinMFS._
> 
> Boot your computer with the MFSLive Boot CD. You may have to adjust the PC's BIOS to boot from the CD instead of the PC's internal hard drive.
> 
> Carefully ensure that the new internal drive is designated 'sda' and the external drive is designated as 'sdb.' You can use Shift+PageUp after you have booted up to see which drive is where.
> 
> Use the following command:
> 
> For Tivo S3 (TCD648250B)
> mfsadd -r 4 -ex /dev/sda /dev/sdb
> 
> For TivoHD (TCD652160)
> mfsadd -r 4 -x /dev/sda /dev/sdb
> 
> If you need more detailed instructions, see the Series3 section of the MFSLive Software Guide.
> 
> 
> Shutdown your computer and disconnect the drives.
> 
> Reinstall the internal drive, replace the TiVo's outer case, and connect the eSATA drive.
> 
> You're done.



*[aname=internalexternal]How[/aname] do I upgrade my TiVo's built-in drive and add an eSATA drive?*

_Member Burt Spielman contributed to this topic._

If you just want to add an eSATA drive to your existing drive, then see FAQ #10. This FAQ is for those that want to upgrade their built-in drive *and* add an eSATA drive. If you just want to upgrade the internal TiVo drive, then see [jumpto=S5]Section V[/jumpto] of this FAQ.

Be sure to see FAQ #25 for drive and enclosure recommendations.

The following upgrade instructions will retain all of your existing recordings.



> These instructions are for use under Windows XP (SP2/SP3) and Windows Vista (32bit or 64bit) only. Do not use these instructions with previous versions of Windows.
> 
> *If you have an external drive connected to your TiVo, you must "unmarry" it before you proceed. To do that, disconnect your external drive, reboot the TiVo, and follow the on-screen instructions to remove the external drive.*
> 
> You should temporarily disable any antivirus or security software prior to performing an upgrade. Some antivirus / security software is known to interfere with the upgrade process. If you are not able to completely disable your antivirus software, boot Windows into safe mode (press F8 at Windows startup) and perform the upgrade from there.
> 
> press F8 at startup to launch Windows in safe mode and perform the backup from there.
> 
> If you don't know what you are doing, follow the instructions exactly. Never attempt to make the drives appear in Windows Explorer.
> 
> 
> Obtain torx screwdrivers in the T10 and T15 sizes. The T10 must have at least a 2.5" shaft and a magnetic tip is preferable.
> 
> If you don't have a torx T10 screwdriver with a 2.5" shaft, you can purchase the Star Driver T10 Ampro (part #9014713) from Advance Auto Parts for about $4. Another choice is the Craftsman Torx Screwdriver T10 (part #47180) for $7 from Sears or one its subsidiaries, such as KMart, Sears Hardware, or Orchard Supply Hardware. These stores should also sell torx screwdrivers in the T15 size.
> 
> Remove the six cover screws (picture) from the rear of the case using the torx T10 screwdriver. Put the screws in a safe place.
> 
> Place the TiVo on a flat surface such as a desk or counter top.
> 
> With the front of the TivoHD facing you, slide the top cover around 1/4 inch toward the rear (away from you) until it appears to stop traveling.
> 
> Grab the top cover in the lower front corner on both sides and pull outward on both sides just a little and the cover will slide the rest of the way off.
> 
> Remove the four screws holding the drive cradle to the TiVo (picture) with the torx T10 screwdriver. After removing the screws, disconnect the SATA cable and power cable from the drive. Put the screws in a safe place.
> 
> Remove the four screws that hold the drive to the drive cradle with the torx T15 screwdriver. Set the drive aside and put the screws in a safe place.
> 
> Download the latest version of WinMFS here. You'll need to register on that site (no cost) to see the download icon.
> 
> Extract (i.e. unzip) the downloaded ZIP file to give you the actual WinMFS program. To do that, double-click on the file and drag the WinMFS program to your desktop.
> 
> Shut down Windows, turn off your computer, and connect the TiVo's built-in SATA drive and your new replacement SATA drive. You can open your computer and connect both with SATA cables, or you can connect them externally using a pair of SATA->USB adapters *or* a dual drive dock. Both drives should be connected to your PC at the same time.
> 
> Turn on your computer and launch WinMFS. If using Windows Vista, you'll want to launch WinMFS by right-clicking on WinMFS.exe and selecting "*Run as Administrator*."
> 
> Note the TiVo drive will not appear in Windows Explorer. That is normal and intended. WinMFS will always see drives that are connected correctly, provided you run it as administrator.
> 
> Create a backup of the TiVo software for future use, just in case anything should ever go wrong.
> 
> In WinMFS, select _File -> Select Drive_ and select the original TiVo drive. Do not select anything for B.
> 
> If you aren't able to select the original TiVo drive in WinMFS, verify that it is running by placing your hand on top of the drive. With some USB adapters, you may need to power off and then power on your computer before the drive will show up in WinMFS.
> 
> In WinMFS, select the 'Backup' option to create a truncated backup. Save the file to your hard drive for backup purposes.
> 
> You're done with the backup.
> 
> If you have not done so already, select _File -> Select Drive_ and select the original TiVo drive. Do not select anything for B.
> 
> If you aren't able to select the original TiVo drive in WinMFS, verify that it is running by placing your hand on top of the drive. With some USB adapters, you may need to power off and then power on your computer before the drive will show up in WinMFS.
> 
> Select _Tools -> Mfscopy_. Select the new internal drive replacement as 'Destination Drive A.' Do not select anything for B.
> 
> If you do not wish to copy your past recordings to the new drive, then you can save a lot of time by choosing File -> Restore instead of Tools -> Mfscopy. This takes just a few minutes. When asked for the backup file, select the file you saved in the previous step.
> 
> After the copy is complete, WinMFS will display a dialog box asking if you want to expand the drive. Click *Yes*.
> 
> Select _File -> Select Drive_ and set the new internal drive replacement as Drive A. *Don't skip this step!*
> 
> Select _Tools-> MfsSuperSize -> On_.
> 
> [You are now done with the internal drive upgrade. Use the following steps to marry the eSATA drive.]
> 
> Turn off your computer.
> 
> Disconnect the original TiVo drive. Keep your new internal drive connected and connect the drive that you will use in an eSATA enclosure. If you are connecting a retail eSATA drive to the SATA port on your PC, you will need a SATA -> eSATA cable such as the SIIG CB-SA0311-S1 (Buy.com, TheNerds.net, or ProVantage.com) or the PPA Int'l 3848 (Newegg.com).
> 
> Both drives should be connected to your PC at the same time.
> 
> The next step changes depending on whether you (1) upgraded directly from the original TiVo drive or (2) upgraded from a previously upgraded TiVo.
> 
> If you upgraded from the original TiVo drive, then proceed as below:
> 
> Turn on your computer and launch WinMFS. If using Windows Vista, you'll want to launch WinMFS by right-clicking on WinMFS.exe and selecting "*Run as Administrator*."
> 
> In WinMFS, select _File -> Select Drive_ and select the two drives you attached. Set 'Drive A' to the new internal drive and 'Drive B' to the external drive.
> 
> In WinMFS, select _Tools-> Mfsadd_.
> 
> If you previously replaced your hard drive and upgraded from that, then:
> 
> Download the MFSLive Linux Boot CD image and burn it as a CD. Boot your PC from the CD.
> 
> You may have to adjust the PC's BIOS to boot from the CD instead of the PC's internal hard drive.
> 
> Carefully ensure that the new internal drive is designated 'sda' and the external drive is designated as 'sdb.' You can use Shift+PageUp after you have booted up to see which drive is where.
> 
> Use the following command:
> 
> For Tivo S3 (TCD648250B)
> mfsadd -r 4 -ex /dev/sda /dev/sdb
> 
> For TivoHD (TCD652160)
> mfsadd -r 4 -x /dev/sda /dev/sdb
> 
> 
> 
> Shutdown your computer and disconnect the drives.
> 
> Reinstall the internal drive, replace the TiVo's outer case, and connect the eSATA drive.
> 
> You're done.



 *What does the "MfsSupersize" option do?*

By default, roughly 10% of the internal drive is reserved for "tivoclips" -- video advertisements that are downloaded to the TiVo. If you use the MfsSupersize option on an internal drive upgrade, then only 10GB will be reserved for advertisements and the rest of the space is recovered for use with recordings.

Without MfsSupersize, a 1TB drive will add ~144 HD hours. With MfsSupersize, a 1TB drive will add ~157 HD hours.

There are no known ill effects associated with the Supersize option. In fact, TiVo appears to use that option on its own TivoHD XL (1TB) to provide 157 HD hours.

 *If I want to replace my current eSATA drive, can I just remove it and then "marry" it to another?*

Yes, you can replace the eSATA drive on your Series3 as much as you want, but you'll _permanently_ lose all existing recordings on every drive you remove.

 *What is the best way to replace an existing eSATA drive?*

 Disconnect power to the TiVo.

 Disconnect and remove your eSATA drive.

 Reconnect the power to your TiVo.

 The TiVo will display a message stating that your eSATA drive was disconnected. It will ask you to reconnect the drive, or press CLEAR to remove it. You press CLEAR, then THUMBS DOWN three times and ENTER to confirm. The TiVo will reboot and the drive is removed. _Screenshots: #1, #2, #3._

After you've removed the eSATA drive and rebooted the TiVo as indicated above, follow the instructions in #6 to add the new eSATA drive.

Note when you remove an eSATA drive, you will lose all recordings made since the drive was added.

 *Can I backup the recordings on my internal drive and eSATA drive and restore it to a single, larger internal hard drive?*

Yes, but only if you originally married the eSATA drive using WinMFS. If you used the External Storage menu, then you cannot copy the recordings from an internal+external setup to a single internal drive.

 *Can I backup (copy) the recordings on my eSATA drive to another eSATA drive of the same size?*

Yes. You can do this with the MFSLive bootCD using the dd or dd_rescue commands. For more information, see the MFSLive Software Guide. _Credit to spike2k5 for this answer._

 *Can I backup the recordings on my eSATA drive and restore it to an eSATA drive of larger size?*

This should be possible, but it is untested. As indicated in the previous FAQ, you would backup the contents of the old drive to the new drive using the dd or dd_rescue commands. Once you've done that, you would use mfsadd to enable the extra capacity on that drive. _Credit to spike2k5 for this answer._

 *Can I upgrade the built-in hard drive with a larger model without affecting my eSATA drive?*

You can do that with the MFSLive bootCD if you are still using the original, factory-installed TiVo drive. You _cannot_ do this if the internal drive was previously upgraded. Note this capability is not yet supported in WinMFS, but it could be added in a future version. _Credit to spike2k5 for this answer._

 *Can I use a multi-disk eSATA enclosure with RAID?*

Yes. That said, be aware that the TivoHD, TivoHD XL, and TiVo Series3 support a maximum internal+external capacity of 2.2 TB (2.0 TiB). With the latest tools, the maximum capacity allowed for a single TiVo drive is 1.1 TB (1.0 TiB) *plus* the capacity of the original drive. RAID will not change that.

Keep in mind that *only* the discontinued TiVo Series3 (TCD648250B) allows you to use the external drive of your choice without opening the unit and voiding the warranty. The TivoHD (TCD652160) and TivoHD XL (TCD658000) both require you to open the unit and void the warranty if you want to use something other than the 500GB Western Digital My DVR Expander.

 *My eSATA drive also has a USB port. Can I share it between the TiVo and my PC?*

No. The TiVo deletes any existing computer data and creates its own MFS partition. If you are not careful, using the eSATA drive with a PC or MAC could also corrupt the TiVo partition table, causing you to lose all recordings made since you connected the drive.

 *How important is eSATA drive performance?*

All modern 5400rpm SATA drives should provide sufficient throughput to handle three different HDTV streams (two recording, one playback) simultaneously.

 *What features should I look for in a drive or an enclosure?*

Any 5400rpm drive sold in the past few years will provide the necessary performance. A MPEG-2 HD stream consumes no more than 2.42 MB/s (same as 19.4 Megabits/s). Recording two different HD channels while watching a third, while also transferring another HD program with MRV, would consume around 10 MB/s. Modern 5400rpm drives can sustain at least triple that.

As the eSATA drive runs full time with the TiVo Series3, we recommend members select drives certified by the manufacturer for 24/7 operation. Standard desktop drives work just as well in many cases, but buying a drive certified for 24/7 operation provides more assurance of long-term reliability. Ultimately, one must decide whether they are willing to pay a premium for extra 'peace of mind.'

Some drives are specifically marketed for DVR use. These drives are certified for 24/7 operation, but also feature modified firmware to reduce seek noise at the expense of some performance. Performance is very important in a desktop drive for a PC, but less so for eSATA expansion on the Series3, which still uses the internal drive for all guide and index information. You won't notice 20% less performance with an eSATA drive, but you may notice 20% less noise. Examples of drives marketed for DVR use include Western Digital AV-GP, Seagate DB35, and Hitachi Cinemastar series.

To best ensure long-term reliability, it is also a good idea to buy a drive or enclosure _with_ a quiet fan. Enclosures _without_ fans can cause some drives to overheat with continuous operation, especially if they are stored in closed cabinets with poor ventilation. Buying a drive or enclosure _without_ a fan for use in an closed cabinet area is just asking for trouble. If you purchase a drive or enclosure _without_ a fan, be absolutely sure it has adequate ventilation.

Another important feature to have in a drive or enclosure is the ability to automatically turn itself back on following a power outage. Many external drives and enclosures use *soft* power switches that revert back to the 'off' state whenever there is a loss in power, requiring a manual push of the button to turn them back on. In the event of a brief power loss, these *soft switch* drives are 'off' when the Series3 boots up, and the "External Storage Missing" screen will result, which asks you to reconnect the drive and reboot the TiVo. Any time your TiVo is stuck on that "External Storage Missing" screen, it won't record programs you have previously scheduled.

Products with a *hard switch* are generally preferable, as they turn back on automatically after a loss in power, so you never have to worry about coming home to a 'reconnect your drive' screen. Products with a *hard switch* typically have a dedicated on/off toggle at the rear that can be physically moved to the 'on' position and will remain there until you move it back to the 'off' position.

 *I don't understand why it is important to have a hard power switch. Could you explain some more?*

If the eSATA drive isn't 'on' during TiVo startup, the Series3 will sit at the "External Storage Missing" screen until you physically turn it on, which means any programs you have scheduled do not get recorded. That's why it is important to have an eSATA drive/enclosure with a *hard* switch that will automatically power back up after brief power outage. The obvious alternative is a UPS; if your drive never loses power, it doesn't matter what kind of power switch it has.

 *I just bought a new eSATA drive but it didn't include a cable. What kind of cable do I need?*

You want an "eSATA II" cable. The TiVo expects the longer connector found on eSATA II cables. The "eSATA I" cables feature a shorter connector which will not create a reliable connection with the Series3. Cables with a short connector are the #1 cause of problems with eSATA expansion on the Series3.

See FAQ #26 for information on where you can order the right cable.

 *I want to build my own eSATA solution. Where should I start?*

For suggested pre-built eSATA solutions, see FAQ #27.

If you want to build your own "Non Verified" eSATA solution, a list of recommended SATA drives is found in FAQ #28 and a list of enclosures is found in FAQ #30.

It is very important to have the right eSATA cable. The TiVos will not work reliably with many eSATA cables, which lack a connector of sufficient length. See FAQ #26 for a list of eSATA cables that are confirmed to work well with the TiVo.

 *Where can I order a good eSATA cable online?*

The recommended eSATA cable for the TiVo is the SIIG CB-SA0111-S1 (1m). This cable is available in 1m and 2m versions from Provantage.com (1m, 2m), Buy.com (1m, 2m), Amazon.com (1m, 2m), and TheNerds.net (1m, 2m). This cable "snaps" in to provide a firm connection.

The Tripp-Lite P950 eSATA cable is also confirmed to work with the TiVo. This cable doesn't fit as "snugly" as the SIIG above, so it is more prone to come lose if you are reaching around (or moving) your equipment. You can order it in 0.5m (18") and 1.0m (36") lengths for about $6 from Provantage.com (0.5m, 1.0m), Buy.com (0.5m, 1.0m) and TheNerds.net (0.5m, 1.0m).

 *What are good pre-built eSATA solutions?*

A number of members are successfully using the Fantom Drives GreenDrive 1TB External eSATA drive with their TiVo Series3. It appears to be a reliable solution, based on member reports over the past three months. This product is based on the WD10EACS.

Note this drive, like all those above, only works with the "plug and play" expansion on the discontinued TiVo Series3 model. None of these solutions work with the "plug and play" expansion on the TivoHD; to activate such an unsupported drive on the TivoHD, you must follow FAQs #10 or #11 above. If you aren't willing to do that, then buy the Western Digital My DVR Expander.

 *What are good drives to use with a eSATA enclosure or as an internal drive upgrade?*


Code:


[b][u]Make   [/u]  [u]Model    [/u]    [u]Size [/u]  [u]Part #         [/u]   [u]Noise (10=Best)[/u][/b]
Hitachi  Cinemastar  1000GB  HCS721010KLA332         7
[COLOR="Red"]Hitachi  Cinemastar  1000GB  HCS721010KLA330         7[/color]
Hitachi  Deskstar    1000GB  HD31000                 [jumpto=AAM]7*[/jumpto]
[COLOR="Red"]Hitachi  Deskstar    1000GB  HDT721010SLA360         [jumpto=AAM]7*[/jumpto][/color]
Seagate  Pipeline     500GB  ST3500321CS             7
Seagate  Pipeline     500GB  ST3500414CS             9
Seagate  Pipeline    1000GB  ST31000533CS            5
Seagate  Pipeline    1000GB  ST31000322CS            6
WD       AV           500GB  WD5000AVJS              8
[COLOR="Red"]WD       AV-GP       1000GB  WD10EVCS               10[/COLOR]

Drives [COLOR="Red"]highlighted in red[/color] are discontinued.

For subjective noise rating, 10=best, 1=worst, and 9=original drive. 
Noise ratings marked with * assume that AAM is enabled and set to 128, as
described in [jumpto=aam]this FAQ[/jumpto].  There will be some small variance from part to part.

The WD10EVVS was removed from the list on October 10, because versions of
that drive manufactured after September 18 are not fully compatible.  Drives
manufactured prior to September 19 work fine.  Refer to the FAQ below.

The WD10EVDS was removed from the list on December 26, because versions of
that drive manufactured after November 2? are not fully compatible.  Drives
manufactured prior to November work fine.  Refer to the FAQ below.

All drives in the list above are fully compatible with the TivoHD and TiVo Series3.

 *Where are the Western Digital "Green" drives? Weren't those recommended before?*

Western Digital "Green" drives are the quietest 1TB drives available, but *all* of those drives are now manufactured with an Intellipark feature that cause both the TivoHD and Series3 to hang after a software reboot. These hangs occur after restarts initiated through the TiVo menus and restarts that follow software updates. These drives only boot correctly in a TivoHD/Series3 after the power plug is pulled. These updated drives will not boot at all in the Series2.

This issue affects all recently manufactured Western Digital EADS, EARS, and EAVS drives. It also affects EVVS drives manufactured *after* September 18 and EVDS drives manufactured since November. Drives built prior to these dates work perfectly fine; they do *not* exhibit the issue. The manufacture date is printed on the top of every drive.

For newly built Western Digital "Green" drives that exhibit this issue, TCF member *drey* discovered a method to disable the Intellipark feature on these drives, thereby making them fully compatible with the TiVo (i.e. no more "soft reboot" issue). Instructions below:



> Download this bootable CD with wdidle3.exe. Burn the ISO file to any CD-R disk using Windows 7, OS X, or a free program like ImgBurn.
> 
> Connect the affected WD drive to any available SATA connector on your motherboard.
> 
> If you have a newer PC, you may need to enter your PC bios and temporarily switch your SATA controller to EIDE mode from AHCI/RAID. This change is needed before a bootable DOS CD can detect the drive on some newer PCs.
> 
> Boot from the above CD - hit "Enter" within 15 seconds to boot to DOS and then run "wdidle3 /S300".
> 
> A message should indicate "Idle3 Timer is enabled and set to 300 seconds (5 minutes)." That means you were successful.
> 
> That's it. You should no longer have the "soft-reboot" problem.


*The procedure only works for drives connected directly to a computer with SATA or eSATA. It does not work for drives connected with a USB -> SATA adapter.*

This procedure has no affect on the TiVo software, settings, or recordings on the drive, so it can be performed before or after a backup and restore.

If you think you may have installed one of these newer Western Digital "Green" drives in your TiVo, but are not sure, there is a simple test. Restart your TiVo through the Messages & Settings -> Restart or Reset TiVo menu. If your TiVo boots properly (give it ten minutes), then you have an older drive that does not exhibit the issue. If the TiVo refuses to boot until you pull the power plug, then the procedure described above should eliminate that problem. It has no known ill effects and it will not affect your TiVo software or recordings.

 *What enclosures are members using with their own "Non Verified" eSATA solutions?*


Code:


[b][u]Make           [/u]  [u]Model       [/u]   [u]Fan? [/u]  [u]On/Off switch?[/u]   [u]Incl. eSATA cable?[/u][/b]
3Gen             IntelliVault   Yes          ?                 ?
Adaptec          ACS-300        No         Hard                ?
Antec            MX-1           Yes        Hard               Yes
Apricorn         EZ Bus DTS     Yes        Hard               Yes
AZiO             ENC311SU31     No         Hard                ?
AZiO             ENC311SU41     No         Hard                ?
Bytecc           ME-747         Yes        Hard                ?
CoolGear         SataVault      Yes        Hard                ?
Icy Dock         MB559          No         Hard               Yes
Kingwin          JT-35EU        Yes        Soft               Yes
Sans Digital     MS2UT          Yes        Hard                ?
Thecus           N2050          Yes        Soft                ?
Ultra            ULT33053       Yes        Hard               Yes
Vantec           NexStar3       No         Hard               Yes
WiebeTech        TTE0           No         Hard                ?

If you buy one of these enclosures, it is still recommended that you use one
of the eSATA cables recommended in FAQ #26.

Be aware that these enclosures were reported for setups with the unofficial
eSATA expansion in 8.3.x.  The Antec MX-1 is confirmed to work with the new
External Storage menu in 9.2, but most of the others have not been tested.

Most other enclosures should work too, they're just not confirmed here yet.
If you've upgraded your TiVo, and what you used isn't listed here, please post
or pm what you used.


 *Can I use one of those new 1.5TB or 2TB drives? *

The "plug and play" drive expansion on the TiVo Series3 only supports external drives *up to 1.1 TB* (1.0 TiB) in size. Reboots will result if you attempt to use a drive larger than 1.1 TB with the "plug and play" expansion. You can use a drive larger than 1.1 TB (1.0 TiB), but only by opening the unit and voiding the warranty.

By opening the unit and voiding the warranty, the maximum capacity allowed for the internal TiVo drive is 1.1 TB (1.0 TiB) *plus* the capacity of the original drive. If you were to upgrade a TivoHD with a 1.5 TB drive, only 1.26 TB would be usable. The same limits apply to external drives "married" with WinMFS as described in FAQ #10 above.

Compatible 1.5TB drives include the Seagate ST31500541AS, ST315005N4A1AS, ST31500341AS, and ST315005N1A1AS. All of these drives are rather loud, so they are not a good idea if the TiVo resides in close proximity to a viewing or sleeping area. Western Digital's 1.5TB and 2.0TB EVDS and EVDS drives are relatively quiet high-capacity drives, but are no longer compatible out-of-the box; refer to FAQ #29 for more information.

Remember, you must always open the TiVo and pair the drive with WinMFS to use an external drive with >1.0TB capacity.

 *How do I reduce the seek noise on my new hard drive?*

Drives marketed for DVRs come preconfigured with firmware settings to minimize noise. Most other drives come configured for best desktop performance, not the lowest possible noise.

Hard drives from Hitachi, Maxtor, and Western Digital -- _but not Seagate _-- support a feature known as Automatic Acoustic Management (AAM). This configurable setting allows one to reduce seek noise at the expense of some performance. Many drives ship with AAM disabled so as to provide maximum performance on desktop computers. Since such performance is unnecessary in a DVR, it makes sense to enable AAM. An AAM setting of 128 will provide the quietest possible operation.

The easiest way to change the AAM is to download and run the free Hddscan for Windows utility. This utility will change the AAM value for both USB and SATA drives under Windows 2000 SP4, Windows XP SP2/SP3, Windows Vista, and Windows 7. To use it:

 Download HDDScan from http://hddscan.com.

 Extract (i.e. unzip) the downloaded RAR archive to give you the actual HDDScan program. To do that, double-click on the file and drag the "HDDScan3.2-release" folder to your desktop.

 Launch Hddscan from the "HDDScan3.2-release" folder on your desktop. If using Windows Vista, you'll want to launch Hddscan by right-clicking on HDDScan.exe and selecting "*Run as Administrator*."

 Select your new/replacement TiVo drive from the drop down list.

 Click the round blue "New Task" button and select Features -> IDE Features.

 Drag the Automatic Acoustic Management (AAM) slider all the way to the left, until it reads 128. Click *Set*.

 You're done.

If you do not have access to Windows, then you can also change the AAM setting on your Hitachi, Maxtor, or Western Digital drive using *Hitachi Feature Tool v2.11*. This free utility available as a boot CD and a boot floppy. The full manual can be found here. Note Hitachi Feature Tool only works on SATA and eSATA connected drives; it does not work on USB connected drives.

You burn the Hitachi Feature Tool image to a CD using a program like Nero or ImageBurn. You turn off your computer, connect the new DVR drive to your computer, and then boot with the Hitachi Feature Tool CD. From the Feature menu, choose Automatic Acoustic Management (AAM). Select the option to enable AAM with a user-defined value. Set the AAM value to 128 and click Ok. You're done.

*[aname=S5]V.[/aname] Internal Drive Upgrades [jumpto=S0][Back to top][/jumpto]*

_This section is devoted to internal drive upgrades not supported by TiVo. This section is still under construction._


*Can I upgrade the internal drive in my TiVo?*

Yes. Be aware that an internal drive upgrade will void your warranty, and TiVo does *not* provide technical support for upgraded TiVos.

Note the TiVo's "plug and play" external drive expansion will no longer work if you upgrade the internal drive. If you want to upgrade the internal drive and add an external drive at the same time, then see the instructions in [jumpto=internalexternal]Section IV, FAQ #11[/jumpto] above.

*Will TiVo know if I upgrade the internal drive?*

Yes. When you upgrade your drive, that information is reported to TiVo when your box connects to the service to download guide information.

 *Will a drive upgrade affect my lifetime subscription?*

No. All subscriptions, including lifetime subscriptions, are tied to your TiVo service number. Your service number is set on a ROM chip inside the TiVo, and upgrading the internal hard drive does not change that.

 *I have an external drive connected. Can I still upgrade the built-in hard drive?*

You cannot upgrade the built-in hard drive while it is "married" to an external drive. You must "unmarry" the external drive before you can proceed with a drive upgrade. To do that, power on the TiVo without the external drive connected and follow the on-screen instructions.

Be aware that "unmarrying" the external drive will cause you to lose all recordings made since it was added. Before you disconnect your external hard drive and lose those recordings, you may want to download those (without copy protection) to your computer using TiVo Desktop or iTiVo. Once the drive upgrade is complete, you can send those recordings back to the TiVo.

 *What is the largest drive I can use for an internal upgrade?*

_Credit to spike -- the author of WinMFS -- for clarifying this subject._

With latest version of WinMFS, the maximum capacity allowed for the internal TiVo drive is 1.1 TB (1.0 TiB) *plus* the capacity of the original drive. Older tools cannot support drives larger than 1.1 TB.



Code:


              [u]Model Number[/u]    [u]Maximum Single Drive Capacity[/u]*    [u]HD Hours[/u]
Tivo HD       TCD652160       1.26 TB (1260 GB)                   198
Tivo HD XL    TCD658000       2.10 TB (2100 GB)                   330
TiVo Series3  TCD648250B      1.35 TB (1350 GB)                   212

[size=1]* Drives with capacities larger than 1.1 TB are only supported when the latest version
  of WinMFS is used.  If you are using tools or a method other than those described below,
  then your drive must be 1.1 TB or smaller.[/size]

If you were to replace the built-in TiVo drive with a 2.0 TB drive, the full 2.0 TB would be usable on a TivoHD XL, but only 1.26 TB would be usable on the TivoHD.

Most with the TivoHD and TiVo Series3 opt to buy 1.0 TB drives, which provide a capacity of 157 HD hours.

 *Why is internal capacity on the standard TivoHD limited to 1.26 TB?*

TiVo's SATA driver supports a maximum partition size of 1.0TiB (1.1TB). WinMFS increase storage capacity by expanding a new partition up to 1.0TiB (1.1TB). For the TivoHD, that adds 1.0TiB (1.1TB) to the existing 160GB partition for a total of 1.26TB. For the XL, that adds 1.0TiB (1.1TB) to the original 1TB partition, for a maximum of 2.1TB.

At least one ebay seller (dvr_dude) has written their own private tools to expand a _second_ partition to 1.0TiB (1.1TB), enabling expansion up to 1.1TB+1.1TB+160GB= 2.36TB on the TiVoHD. This allows them to sell replacement drives with 2.0TB capacity. No public tools are available to do this.

Note it is *not* possible to expand and use a TiVo HD XL image on a standard TiVo HD. Although an XL image may appear to work fine upon initial setup, the TiVo will not be able to download guide updates.

 *Can I buy a drive upgrade kit?*

Yes.

Both *DVRupgrade* (site sponsor) sells internal upgrade solutions for TivoHD and Tivo Series3. With the solutions from these companies, you swap out the internal drive with the new and you are ready to go. They've done the rest of the work for you.

 *If I upgrade the internal drive, do I lose my Season Passes, Wishlists, and/or recordings?*

With pre-prepared drive kits, you lose your current Season Passes, Wishlists, and recordings.

If you do the upgrade yourself, you preserve your Season Passes, Wishlists, and other settings. You can also keep your recordings.

 *If I upgrade the internal drive, will I need the cable company to re-activate my CableCards?*

Verizon FiOS does not pair CableCards to a specific TiVo, so drive upgrades do not affect that service. This also allows FiOS customers to easily move CableCards from one TiVo to another.

Some other cable providers "pair" CableCards to a specific device, and that pairing information is stored on the hard drive. If you replace the TiVo's hard drive using a drive upgrade kit purchased online, that drive will *not* have the necessary pairing information, and your CableCard(s) will no longer work until they are reactivated (re-paired) by the cable company. In some cases, this can be done over the phone, but it usually requires a service call.

In contrast, if you follow the instructions below to upgrade a TiVo that already has activated CableCards, the appropriate pairing information is copied up from the original drive and restored to the new drive, so your CableCard(s) continue to work without the need for a service call.

*How does the power consumption of an upgraded TiVo compare to a TiVo with the My DVR Expander?*

A stock TivoHD consumes ~34 watts. The My DVR Expander consumes ~12 watts, for a total of ~46 watts.

A TivoHD upgraded with a 1TB HD generally consumes around 32-35 watts.

 *When is the best time to perform an upgrade?*

It is best to run a new TiVo for at least a few weeks before performing an upgrade. Some _small_ percentage of all TiVos are defective or damaged in shipping, so you don't want to upgrade a TiVo until you've confirmed that is operating normally.

If you plan to subscribe to digital cable in the near future, it is best to do the upgrade _after_ your CableCards are installed. Why?

If you replace your drive prior to the CableCard installation, then you'll only have the CableCard activation (pairing) information on the new drive; it won't be on the original TiVo drive or in the backup file on your computer. By activating your CableCards prior to the upgrade, the CableCard activation (pairing) information is stored on the original drive, as well as your saved backup file; that way, should you ever replace your new drive in the future, your CableCards still function without the need for a service call to reactivate them.

 *My original TiVo drive died. Am I still able replace it and perform an upgrade?*

Yes. You can purchase DVRUpgrade's *InstantCake restore CD* for $39.99. This restore CD includes a copy of the original TiVo software which it will restore to a new drive up to 1.0TiB in size.

DVRUpgrade also sells new replacement drives with the TiVo software preinstalled. These drive replacement kits include all the tools necessary to replace the original drive.

 *[aname=drives]If[/aname] I am going to do the upgrade myself, what drive should I buy?*

When upgrading the built-in drive, it is recommended that you use a drive from the following list:



Code:


[b][u]Make   [/u]  [u]Model    [/u]    [u]Size [/u]  [u]Part #         [/u]   [u]Noise (10=Best)[/u][/b]
Hitachi  Cinemastar  1000GB  HCS721010KLA332         7
[COLOR="Red"]Hitachi  Cinemastar  1000GB  HCS721010KLA330         7[/color]
Hitachi  Deskstar    1000GB  HD31000                 [jumpto=AAM]7*[/jumpto]
[COLOR="Red"]Hitachi  Deskstar    1000GB  HDT721010SLA360         [jumpto=AAM]7*[/jumpto][/color]
Seagate  Pipeline     500GB  ST3500321CS             7
Seagate  Pipeline     500GB  ST3500414CS             9
Seagate  Pipeline    1000GB  ST31000533CS            5
Seagate  Pipeline    1000GB  ST31000322CS            6
WD       AV           500GB  WD5000AVJS              8
[COLOR="Red"]WD       AV-GP       1000GB  WD10EVCS               10[/COLOR]

Drives [COLOR="Red"]highlighted in red[/color] are discontinued.

For subjective noise rating, 10=best, 1=worst, and 9=original drive. 
Noise ratings marked with * assume that AAM is enabled and set to 128, as
described in [jumpto=aam]this FAQ[/jumpto]. There will be some small variance from part to part.

The WD10EVVS was removed from the list on October 10, because versions of
that drive manufactured after September 18 are not fully compatible.  Drives
manufactured prior to September 19 work fine.  Refer to the FAQ below.

The WD10EVDS was removed from the list on December 26, because versions of
that drive manufactured after November 2? are not fully compatible.  Drives
manufactured prior to November work fine.  Refer to the FAQ below.

All drives in the list above are fully compatible with the TivoHD and TiVo Series3.

 *[aname=drey]Where[/aname] are the Western Digital "Green" drives? Weren't those recommended before?*

Western Digital "Green" drives are the quietest 1TB drives available, but *all* of those drives are now manufactured with an Intellipark feature that cause both the TivoHD and Series3 to hang after a software reboot. These hangs occur after restarts initiated through the TiVo menus and restarts that follow software updates. These drives only boot correctly in a TivoHD/Series3 after the power plug is pulled. These updated drives will not boot at all in the Series2.

This issue affects all recent Western Digital EADS, EARS, and EAVS drives. It also affects EVVS drives manufactured *after* September 18 and EVDS drives manufactured since November. Drives built prior to these dates work perfectly fine; they do *not* exhibit the issue. The manufacture date is printed on the top of every drive.

For newly built Western Digital "Green" drives that exhibit this issue, TCF member *drey* discovered a method to disable the Intellipark feature on these drives, thereby making them fully compatible with the TiVo (i.e. no more "soft reboot" issue). Instructions:



> Download this bootable CD with wdidle3.exe. Burn the ISO file to any CD-R disk using Windows 7, OS X, or a free program like ImgBurn.
> 
> Connect the affected WD drive to any available SATA connector on your motherboard.
> 
> If you have a newer PC, you may need to enter your PC bios and temporarily switch your SATA controller to EIDE mode from AHCI/RAID. This change is needed before a bootable DOS CD can detect the drive on some newer PCs.
> 
> Boot from the above CD - hit "Enter" within 15 seconds to boot to DOS and then run "wdidle3 /D" to disable IntelliPark on the WD drive.
> 
> A message should indicate "Idle3 Timer is enabled and set to 3720 seconds (62.0 minutes)." That means you were successful.
> 
> Turn off your PC and reinstall the drive in your TiVo if you have not already loaded the TiVo software. You should no longer have the "soft-reboot" problem.


*The procedure only works for drives connected directly to a computer with SATA or eSATA. It does not work for drives connected with a USB -> SATA adapter.*

This procedure has no affect on the TiVo software, settings, or recordings on the drive, so it can be performed before or after a backup and restore.

If you think you may have installed one of these newer Western Digital "Green" drives in your TiVo, but are not sure, there is a simple test. Restart your TiVo through the Messages & Settings -> Restart or Reset TiVo menu. If your TiVo boots properly (give it ten minutes), then you have an older drive that does not exhibit the issue. If the TiVo refuses to boot until you pull the power plug, then the procedure described above should eliminate that problem. It has no known ill effects and it will not affect your TiVo software or recordings.

 *[aname=AAM]How[/aname] do I reduce the seek noise on my new hard drive?*

Drives marketed for DVRs come preconfigured with firmware settings to minimize noise. Most other drives come configured for best desktop performance, not the lowest possible noise.

Hard drives from Hitachi, Maxtor, and Western Digital -- _but not Seagate _-- support a feature known as Automatic Acoustic Management (AAM). This configurable setting allows one to reduce seek noise at the expense of some performance. Many drives ship with AAM disabled so as to provide maximum performance on desktop computers. Since such performance is unnecessary in a DVR, it makes sense to enable AAM. An AAM setting of 128 will provide the quietest possible operation.

The easiest way to change the AAM is to download and run the free Hddscan for Windows utility. This utility will change the AAM value for both USB and SATA drives under Windows 2000 SP4, Windows XP SP2/SP3, Windows Vista, and Windows 7. To use it:

 Download HDDScan from http://hddscan.com.

 Extract (i.e. unzip) the downloaded RAR archive to give you the actual HDDScan program. To do that, double-click on the file and drag the "HDDScan3.2-release" folder to your desktop.

 Launch Hddscan from the "HDDScan3.2-release" folder on your desktop. If using Windows Vista, you'll want to launch Hddscan by right-clicking on HDDScan.exe and selecting "*Run as Administrator*."

 Select your new/replacement TiVo drive from the drop down list.

 Click the round blue "New Task" button and select Features -> IDE Features.

 Drag the Automatic Acoustic Management (AAM) slider all the way to the left, until it reads 128. Click *Set*.

 You're done.

If you do not have access to Windows, then you can also change the AAM setting on your Hitachi, Maxtor, or Western Digital drive using *Hitachi Feature Tool v2.11*. This free utility available as a boot CD and a boot floppy. The full manual can be found here. Note Hitachi Feature Tool only works on SATA and eSATA connected drives; it does not work on USB connected drives.

You burn the Hitachi Feature Tool image to a CD using a program like Nero or ImageBurn. You turn off your computer, connect the new DVR drive to your computer, and then boot with the Hitachi Feature Tool CD. From the Feature menu, choose Automatic Acoustic Management (AAM). Select the option to enable AAM with a user-defined value. Set the AAM value to 128 and click Ok. You're done.

 *Are there any drives to avoid?*

All recently manufactured Western Digital "Green" drives are no longer fully compatible out-of-the-box. They exhibit a "soft reboot" problem, where the TiVo is stuck on "Welcome...Powering Up" screen after every software reboot, including restarts initiated through the TiVo menus and restarts that follows software updates. Refer to [jumpto=drey]FAQ #14[/jumpto] for more information.

Stick to the drives listed in the table above and you will be fine.

 *Can I use one of those new 1.5TB or 2TB drives? *

Refer to FAQ #5 above for the maximum capacities allowed for each TiVo model.

The maximum capacity allowed for the internal TiVo drive is 1.1 TB (1.0 TiB) *plus* the capacity of the original drive. If you were to upgrade with a 1.5TB or 2TB drive, only 1.26TB would be usable on the TivoHD and 1.35TB would be usable on the older TiVo Series3. The full capacity would only be usable on the TivoHD XL. If you opt to use such a drive, be sure to follow the instructions in the next FAQ.

Compatible 1.5TB drives include the Seagate ST31500541AS, ST315005N4A1AS, ST31500341AS, and ST315005N1A1AS. All of these drives are rather loud, so they are not a good idea if the TiVo resides in close proximity to a viewing or sleeping area. Western Digital's 1.5TB and 2.0TB EVDS and EVDS drives are relatively quiet high-capacity drives, but are no longer compatible out-of-the box; refer to [jumpto=drey]FAQ #14[/jumpto] for more information.

Note you can only prepare a >1.1TB drive using WinMFS; you *cannot* prepare a >1.1TB drive using MFSLive or InstantCake. Furthermore, to use 1.26TB on a TivoHD or 1.35TB on a Series3, you must start with an original (non-expanded) TiVo image and follow the instructions in the next FAQ.

 *Is there anything special I need to do for drives larger than 1TB?*

You *must* start with an original (non-expanded) TiVo image; images from upgraded TiVos will not work. You *must* also use WinMFS to prepare drives larger than 1TB. Older tools such as MFSLive and InstantCake do not support >1TB capacities.

Under the latest version of WinMFS (v9.3f), the following message is displayed when you attempt to use a drive larger than 1TB:



Code:


You are about to create a partition larger than 1TB.
It's too large for a stock TiVo to support.
Do you want to limit it to 1TB?

You should see this dialog box at step #18 in _TiVo Internal Upgrade Instructions: Preserves Settings Only_ and at step #15 in _TiVo Internal Upgrade Instructions: Preserves Settings and Recordings_. If you do not see this message, then it is probably hidden behind the main WinMFS program screen. Minimize or move the WinMFS window to see it.

You *must* choose 'yes' if you have a TiVo without a hacked PROM chip. This will restrict expansion to 1.1 TB (1.0 TiB) *plus* the capacity of the original drive, as indicated in FAQ #5 above. If you fail to select 'yes' because you do not see the window, then the TiVo will not work; it will reboot every 3-5 minutes.

_Note specific discussion of PROM mods and hacks is not permitted on TiVo Community._

 *How long does an upgrade take?*

If you have a computer with Windows XP or Vista (32bit or 64bit), and know how to connect a SATA drive, then the entire upgrade process should take 30-35 minutes. That includes the time to remove the original TiVo drive, the time to copy the TiVo software and settings with your computer, and the time to reinstall the new TiVo drive. This assumes you just want to copy the TiVo software with your settings, season passes, and wishlists.

If you also want to copy all your recordings to the new drive, that will take longer.  That could take an hour or more, depending on how many recordings you have on your TiVo.

 *Can I reinstall the original TiVo drive after an upgrade?*

Yes. If at some point you want to reinstall the original TiVo drive, you can do so.

 *Can I backup the TiVo software and my settings?*

Both sets of instructions below include a step to make a "truncated" backup of the TiVo software to your computer's hard drive. A "truncated" backup consists of the TiVo software and all your settings-- including season passes and wishlists-- but it does not include your recordings.

This backup is for future use; you can restore this backup to a new drive if your existing drive goes bad in a few years. This backup is approximately 300MB in size, so it can be written to a CD-ROM.

 *[aname=instructions]What[/aname] are the upgrade instructions?*

I've included two sets of instructions below. The first method (A) copies only the TiVo software and your settings to the new drive, and requires that just one drive be connected to your computer at a time. The second method (B) copies the TiVo software, your settings, *and* your recordings to the new drive, but it requires that two drives be connected to your computer at the same time.

If you just bought a new Hitachi, Maxtor, or Western Digital hard drive, be sure to see [jumpto=AAM]Section IV, FAQ #32[/jumpto] for a tip on further reducing drive noise. _Note this is unnecessary for the Western Digital WD10EVCS and WD10EVVS, which are already tuned for low noise operation._




> *TiVo Internal Upgrade Instructions: Preserves Settings Only*
> 
> These instructions are for use under Windows XP (SP2/SP3) and Windows Vista (32bit or 64bit) only. Do not use these instructions with previous versions of Windows.
> 
> *If you have an external drive connected to your TiVo, you must "unmarry" it before you proceed. To do that, disconnect your external drive, reboot the TiVo, and follow the on-screen instructions to remove the external drive.*
> 
> You should temporarily disable any antivirus or security software prior to performing an upgrade. Some antivirus / security software is known to interfere with the upgrade process. If you are not able to completely disable your antivirus software, boot Windows into safe mode (press F8 at Windows startup) and perform the upgrade from there.
> 
> If you don't know what you are doing, follow the instructions exactly. Never attempt to try and make the drives appear in Windows Explorer.
> 
> 
> Obtain torx screwdrivers in the T10 and T15 sizes. The T10 must have at least a 2.5" shaft and a magnetic tip is preferable.
> 
> If you don't have a torx T10 screwdriver with a 2.5" shaft, you can purchase the Star Driver T10 Ampro (part #9014713) from Advance Auto Parts for about $4. Another choice is the Craftsman Torx Screwdriver T10 (part #47180) for $7 from Sears or one its subsidiaries, such as KMart, Sears Hardware, or Orchard Supply Hardware. These stores should also sell torx screwdrivers in the T15 size.
> 
> Remove the six cover screws (picture) from the rear of the case using the torx T10 screwdriver. Put the screws in a safe place.
> 
> Place the TiVo on a flat surface such as a desk or counter top.
> 
> With the front of the TivoHD facing you, slide the top cover around 1/4 inch toward the rear (away from you) until it appears to stop traveling.
> 
> Grab the top cover in the lower front corner on both sides and pull outward on both sides just a little and the cover will slide the rest of the way off.
> 
> Remove the four screws holding the drive cradle to the TiVo (picture) with the torx T10 screwdriver. After removing the screws, disconnect the SATA cable and power cable from the drive. Put the screws in a safe place.
> 
> Remove the four screws that hold the drive to the drive cradle with the torx T15 screwdriver. Set the drive aside and put the screws in a safe place.
> 
> Download the latest version of WinMFS here. You'll need to register on that site (no cost) to see the download icon.
> 
> Extract (i.e. unzip) the downloaded ZIP file to give you the actual WinMFS program. To do that, double-click on the file and drag the WinMFS program to your desktop.
> 
> Shut down Windows, turn off your computer, and connect the original TiVo drive. Do not connect the replacement drive at this time. Do not disconnect your Windows boot drive.
> 
> You can open your computer and connect the original TiVo drive with a SATA cable, or you can connect it externally with a SATA->USB adapter *or* a drive dock.
> 
> Turn on your computer and launch WinMFS. If using Windows Vista, you'll want to launch WinMFS by right-clicking on WinMFS.exe and selecting "*Run as Administrator*."
> 
> Note the TiVo drive will not appear in Windows Explorer. That is normal and intended. WinMFS will always see drives that are connected correctly, provided you run it as administrator.
> 
> In WinMFS, select _File -> Select Drive_ and select the original TiVo drive.
> 
> If you aren't able to select the original TiVo drive in WinMFS, verify that it is running by placing your hand on top of the drive. With some USB adapters, you may need to power off and then power on your computer before the drive will show up in WinMFS.
> 
> In WinMFS, select _File -> Backup_ to create a truncated backup. Remember where you save it.
> 
> Shut down Windows, turn off your computer, and disconnect the original TiVo drive. Connect your new replacement SATA drive.
> 
> You can open your computer and connect it with a SATA cable, or you can connect it externally with a SATA->USB adapter *or* a drive dock.
> 
> Turn on your computer and launch WinMFS. If using Windows Vista, you'll want to launch WinMFS by right-clicking on WinMFS.exe and selecting "*Run as Administrator*."
> 
> In WinMFS, select _File -> Select Drive_ and select the new replacement SATA drive
> 
> In WinMFS, select _File -> Restore_ and select the backup file you saved earlier. Click *Start*. This will restore the TiVo software to the new drive.
> 
> Note: Do not change the swap size. Leave it at the default of 128.
> 
> When the restore is complete, WinMFS will ask you if you want to expand the drive to use the new space. Click *Yes*.
> 
> If you do not see this dialog box, then select _Tools-> Mfsadd_.
> 
> Select _Tools-> MfsSuperSize -> On_.
> 
> See FAQ #22 below for information on this step.
> 
> Shutdown your computer and disconnect the drives.
> 
> Reinstall the internal drive and replace the TiVo's outer case.
> 
> You're done. Store your original TiVo drive in a safe place.






> *TiVo Internal Upgrade Instructions: Preserves Settings and Recordings*
> 
> These instructions are for use under Windows XP (SP2/SP3) and Windows Vista (32bit or 64bit) only. Do not use these instructions with previous versions of Windows.
> 
> *If you have an external drive connected to your TiVo, you must "unmarry" it before you proceed. To do that, disconnect your external drive, reboot the TiVo, and follow the on-screen instructions to remove the external drive.*
> 
> *Clear any recordings from your Recently Deleted folder so time is not spent backing up recordings you do not want to save.*
> 
> You should temporarily disable any antivirus or security software prior to performing an upgrade. Some antivirus / security software is known to interfere with the upgrade process. If you are not able to completely disable your antivirus software, boot Windows into safe mode (press F8 at Windows startup) and perform the upgrade from there.
> 
> If you don't know what you are doing, follow the instructions exactly. Never attempt to make the drives appear in Windows Explorer.
> 
> 
> Obtain torx screwdrivers in the T10 and T15 sizes. The T10 must have at least a 2.5" shaft and a magnetic tip is preferable.
> 
> If you don't have a torx T10 screwdriver with a 2.5" shaft, you can purchase the Star Driver T10 Ampro (part #9014713) from Advance Auto Parts for about $4. Another choice is the Craftsman Torx Screwdriver T10 (part #47180) for $7 from Sears or one its subsidiaries, such as KMart, Sears Hardware, or Orchard Supply Hardware. These stores should also sell torx screwdrivers in the T15 size.
> 
> Remove the six cover screws (picture) from the rear of the case using the torx T10 screwdriver. Put the screws in a safe place.
> 
> Place the TiVo on a flat surface such as a desk or counter top.
> 
> With the front of the TivoHD facing you, slide the top cover around 1/4 inch toward the rear (away from you) until it appears to stop traveling.
> 
> Grab the top cover in the lower front corner on both sides and pull outward on both sides just a little and the cover will slide the rest of the way off.
> 
> Remove the four screws holding the drive cradle to the TiVo (picture) with the torx T10 screwdriver. After removing the screws, disconnect the SATA cable and power cable from the drive. Put the screws in a safe place.
> 
> Remove the four screws that hold the drive to the drive cradle with the torx T15 screwdriver. Set the drive aside and put the screws in a safe place.
> 
> Download the latest version of WinMFS here. You'll need to register on that site (no cost) to see the download icon.
> 
> Extract (i.e. unzip) the downloaded ZIP file to give you the actual WinMFS program. To do that, double-click on the file and drag the WinMFS program to your desktop.
> 
> Shut down Windows, turn off your computer, and connect the original TiVo drive and your new replacement SATA drive. Do not disconnect your Windows boot drive.
> 
> You can open your computer and connect both with SATA cables, or you can connect them externally using a pair of SATA->USB adapters *or* a dual drive dock. Both drives should be connected to your PC at the same time.
> 
> Turn on your computer and launch WinMFS. If using Windows Vista, you'll want to launch WinMFS by right-clicking on WinMFS.exe and selecting "*Run as Administrator*."
> 
> Note the TiVo drive will not appear in Windows Explorer. That is normal and intended. WinMFS will always see drives that are connected correctly, provided you run it as administrator.
> 
> Create a backup of the TiVo software for future use, just in case anything should ever go wrong.
> 
> In WinMFS, select _File -> Select Drive_ and select the original TiVo drive. Do not select anything for B.
> 
> If you aren't able to select the original TiVo drive in WinMFS, verify that it is running by placing your hand on top of the drive. With some USB adapters, you may need to power off and then power on your computer before the drive will show up in WinMFS.
> 
> In WinMFS, select the _File -> Backup_ option to create a truncated backup. Save the file to your hard drive for backup purposes.
> 
> You're done with the backup.
> 
> If you have not done so already, select _File -> Select Drive_ and set the original TiVo drive as Drive A. Do not select anything for B.
> 
> Select _Tools -> Mfscopy_. Select the new internal drive replacement as 'Destination Drive A.' Do not select anything for B.
> 
> After the copy is complete, WinMFS should display a dialog box asking if you want to expand the drive. Click *Yes*.
> 
> If you do not see this dialog box, then select _Tools-> Mfsadd_.
> 
> Select _File -> Select Drive_ and set the new internal drive replacement as 'Source Drive A.' *Don't skip this step!*
> 
> Select _Tools-> MfsSuperSize -> On_.
> 
> See FAQ #22 below for information on this step.
> 
> Shutdown your computer and disconnect the drives.
> 
> Reinstall the internal drive and replace the TiVo's outer case.
> 
> You're done. Store your original TiVo drive in a safe place.




 *What does the "MfsSupersize" option do?*

By default, roughly 10% of the internal drive is reserved for "tivoclips" -- video advertisements that are downloaded to the TiVo. If you use the MfsSupersize option, then only 10GB will be reserved for advertisements and the rest of the space is recovered for use with recordings.

When the MfsSuperSize option is used, a TiVo with a 1.0 TB drive will report 157 HD hours and 1367 SD hours under the latest software. Without the MfsSuperSize option, a TiVo with a 1.0 TB drive will report 142-143 HD hours and 1241-1244 SD hours.

There are no known ill effects associated with the Supersize option. In fact, TiVo appears to use that option on its own TivoHD XL (1TB) to provide 157 HD hours.

 *I forgot the "MfsSuperSize" step to achieve maximum capacity on my new drive. Can I still do that later?*

Yes. MfsSuperSize can be enabled at a later time and will not affect the recordings stored on the drive.

 Reconnect the new drive to your computer.

 Launch WinMFS by right-clicking on WinMFS.exe and selecting "Run as Administrator."

 In WinMFS, select _File -> Select Drive_ and select the new replacement SATA drive.

_Don't skip this step!_

 Select _Tools-> MfsSuperSize -> On_.

 *Can I use another disk cloning program?*

No, you cannot. You must use WinMFS (instructions above) or MFSLive to upgrade your drive.

Other disk clone utilities do not work, because they do not make the changes necessary for a TiVo to recognize the added capacity.


----------



## fred2

What happened to the "rest" of the thread or former thread. There was some good information about cable types, toggling power switches and a whole bunch of other stuff.

(edit) - oh, I now see it down below - no longer a sticky thread.

That thread, containing a large amount of information about acceptable cables, trimming the plastic from cables, external enclosures, etc is at:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=350510


----------



## Fofer

Are folks who have already upgraded their Series 3 TiVos, by way of an expanded internal drive, precluded from taking advantage of this new feature? 

Is there a procedure we can go through to be able to ALSO plug in an external drive, for even more storage?


----------



## jb007

Can anyone recommend any eSata drives? I see Western Digital has a 500 gb model designed specifically for a DVR, but I'd really prefer one of the 1 TB drives with an eSata port.


----------



## jb007

Fofer said:


> Are folks who have already upgraded their Series 3 TiVos, by way of an expanded internal drive, precluded from taking advantage of this new feature?
> 
> Is there a procedure we can go through to be able to ALSO plug in an external drive, for even more storage?


I have the same question


----------



## sfhub

Fofer said:


> Are folks who have already upgraded their Series 3 TiVos, by way of an expanded internal drive, precluded from taking advantage of this new feature?
> 
> Is there a procedure we can go through to be able to ALSO plug in an external drive, for even more storage?


According to spike2k5's post, the new eSATA PnP upgrade feature found in 9.2j only works if you are using a drive which hasn't been expanded (just like KS62). Right now it is only confirmed to work on S3.

Someone posted a conversation with a TiVo rep which indicated eSATA PnP would only be supported on TiVo HD for WD MyDVR Expander. We know it doesn't work on TiVo HD for various drives tested so far, but no one has tried the WD MyDVR Expander yet to confirm the reps statements.


----------



## bkdtv

sfhub said:


> According to spike2k5's post, the new eSATA PnP upgrade feature found in 9.2j only works if you are using a drive which hasn't been expanded (just like KS62). Right now it is only confirmed to work on S3.


Got a link?


----------



## sfhub

New guide from spike2k5 regarding eSATA PnP in 9.2j. Confirms eSATA PnP will not add an eSATA drive to an already expanded internal drive.
http://www.mfslive.org/tivos3_esata.htm

Post describing TiVo CSR conversation that WD My DVR Expander would be supported on TiVo HD and S3 would be able to use other drives.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5615648


----------



## zob

I currently got the series 3 and running Ver. 8.3. with a DB 35 Seagate hard drive & the MX1 enclosure. Everything works fine right now. When TiVo upgrades my receiver to 9 .2 will it still worked properly or will it reinstall the external hard drive? I don't want to lose my recordings? I've got quite a few shows that are recorded and would hate to start over again. If anybody went from 8.3 to 9.2 & use the old kickstart method, did you encounter any problems when TiVo upgraded your receiver? Thanks.


----------



## bkdtv

sfhub said:


> New guide from spike2k5 regarding eSATA PnP in 9.2j. Confirms eSATA PnP will not add an eSATA drive to an already expanded internal drive.
> http://www.mfslive.org/tivos3_esata.htm


Thanks, I added that as FAQ #6.



sfhub said:


> Post describing TiVo CSR conversation that WD My DVR Expander would be supported on TiVo HD and S3 would be able to use other drives.
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5615648


I think we should probably wait on confirmation before I add that to the FAQ.


----------



## BruceShultes

zob said:


> I currently got the series 3 and running Ver. 8.3. with a DB 35 Seagate hard drive & the MX1 enclosure. Everything works fine right now. When TiVo upgrades my receiver to 9 .2 will it still worked properly or will it reinstall the external hard drive? I don't want to lose my recordings? I've got quite a few shows that are recorded and would hate to start over again. If anybody went from 8.3 to 9.2 & use the old kickstart method, did you encounter any problems when TiVo upgraded your receiver? Thanks.


I am currently running a 1TB Hitachi Deskstar in an MX-1 on my S3. The internal drive is the original.

This was enabled under 8.3 and has been upgraded to 9.1 with no problems.

Since I normally watch most of the shows I am interested in the next day and have almost nothing other that suggestions on the drive anyway, I have requested the upgrade.

I will report how it works after the upgrade has been performed.


----------



## axomoxa

Is there a posting of a list of eSATA drives that work with the TiVo HD?


----------



## bkdtv

axomoxa said:


> Is there a posting of a list of eSATA drives that work with the TiVo HD?


Not yet.

Tivo has not yet released a list of compatible drives, but they should do that fairly soon.


----------



## richsadams

zob said:


> I currently got the series 3 and running Ver. 8.3. with a DB 35 Seagate hard drive & the MX1 enclosure. Everything works fine right now. When TiVo upgrades my receiver to 9 .2 will it still worked properly or will it reinstall the external hard drive? I don't want to lose my recordings? I've got quite a few shows that are recorded and would hate to start over again. If anybody went from 8.3 to 9.2 & use the old kickstart method, did you encounter any problems when TiVo upgraded your receiver? Thanks.


Our eSATA drive (Seagate DB35 and Antec MX-1 enclosure) connected to our S3 has survived three upgrades since May from v8.1x to the most recent, v9.2.j, without a problem. The drive is now listed in the System Information.


----------



## T-Shee

richsadams said:


> Our eSATA drive (Seagate DB35 and Antec MX-1 enclosure) connected to our S3 has survived three upgrades since May from v8.1x to the most recent, v9.2.j, without a problem. The drive is now listed in the System Information.


Hey Rich, 
Thanks for info. I've been away from the forum for a few weeks, so pardon the seemingly dumb questions:

You indicate "without a problem"; this is for a non-sanctioned, kickstarted ESATA external expansion drive?

The 9.1 upgrade was seemless, transparent to my kickstarted MX-1, meaning I didn't have to do anything at all and after the upgrade, all was as it was before.

Same for 9.2? No worries?

(I'm still at 9.1 and for business reasons won't be able to follow the action here again until mid-november).

Thanks in advance!


----------



## richsadams

T-Shee said:


> Hey Rich,
> Thanks for info. I've been away from the forum for a few weeks, so pardon the seemingly dumb questions:
> 
> You indicate "without a problem"; this is for a non-sanctioned, kickstarted ESATA external expansion drive?
> 
> The 9.1 upgrade was seemless, transparent to my kickstarted MX-1, meaning I didn't have to do anything at all and after the upgrade, all was as it was before.
> 
> Same for 9.2? No worries?
> 
> (I'm still at 9.1 and for business reasons won't be able to follow the action here again until mid-november).
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Welcome back. The short answer to all of your questions would be an unqualified yes!


----------



## bkdtv

richsadams said:


> Welcome back. The short answer to allof your questions would be an unqualified yes!


Thanks Rich, I added that as number FAQ #9.


----------



## T-Shee

richsadams said:


> Welcome back. The short answer to all of your questions would be an unqualified yes!


Thanks Much!

FYI, my ESATA MX-1 w/Samsung drive is happily recording stuff since May and has never skipped a beat. No issues at all. None. Love it.


----------



## HDTiVo

Is this for sure? For the S3, all the hardware you could newly marry using KS62 can still be newly married using the official 9.2 software?


----------



## bkdtv

HDTiVo said:


> Is this for sure? For the S3, all the hardware you could newly marry using KS62 can still be newly married using the official 9.2 software?


We don't yet have enough data to say that it works with _all_ hardware, but it certainly appears to work with most.


----------



## willyfink

I got all excited by this post and added myself to the priority page. My tivo had automatically received the update by the time I got home from work. I rebooted it and after waiting 15 minutes or so for the update to apply, success. Now running 9.2.j. 

HOWEVER,

TivoHD:
In my excitement, I couldn't wait for a Tivo Verified drive so I bought a Seagate FreeAgent Pro500gb drive. I powered off my tivo and plugged in the drive with the proper sized esata cord. Upon powering up the Tivo, it gets to the Welcome! Powering Up... screen, holds there for about 45 seconds and then reboots continually in a loop until I unplug the esata cord from the tivo at which time it reboots normally. 

So...after all of that, no esata. Anyone help?


----------



## richsadams

willyfink said:


> I got all excited by this post and added myself to the priority page. My tivo had automatically received the update by the time I got home from work. I rebooted it and after waiting 15 minutes or so for the update to apply, success. Now running 9.2.j.
> 
> HOWEVER,
> 
> TivoHD:
> In my excitement, I couldn't wait for a Tivo Verified drive so I bought a Seagate FreeAgent Pro500gb drive. I powered off my tivo and plugged in the drive with the proper sized esata cord. Upon powering up the Tivo, it gets to the Welcome! Powering Up... screen, holds there for about 45 seconds and then reboots continually in a loop until I unplug the esata cord from the tivo at which time it reboots normally.
> 
> So...after all of that, no esata. Anyone help?


Your experience is exactly that of a dozen or more others here that have tried to attach an eSATA drive via plug and play without success. It appears the TiVo Series 3 w/v9.2.j will accept any eSATA drive via plug and play (with a warning) but not so the TiVo HD.

According to various posts over the past week the only eSATA drive that can be attached to the TiVo HD w/v9.2.j (the TiVo "Authorized Device") is the WD My DVR Expander. Available directly from Western Digital or on line at Best Buy.

BEST BUY MY BOOK TIVO DVR EXPANDER

Learn more at the TiVo S3 and TiVo HD Plug and Play eSATA drive expansion thread. (Yes, reading all of the posts on these threads will usually keep you out of trouble - see #3  )

Learn more about TiVo HD manual eSATA drive expansion here.

Hope you saved your receipts!


----------



## willyfink

Thanks for the reply. I thought I read all of the posts, but obviously, I missed the one that mattered. Knew the WD was recommended, but since not locally, and me being one for immediate gratification...


----------



## rrman

Best Buy sells the My DVR for $219.99. Why not get it from Western Digital directly for $199.99 (don't know what they charge for shipping though, and how that would compare when paying state tax for a BB purchase):

http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=334


----------



## bkdtv

rrman said:


> Best Buy sells the My DVR for $219.99. Why not get it from Western Digital directly for $199.99 (don't know what they charge for shipping though, and how that would compare when paying state tax for a BB purchase):
> 
> http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=334


I would not buy anything for the TivoHD until Tivo announces what they are supporting.


----------



## nexus99

willyfink said:


> I got all excited by this post and added myself to the priority page. My tivo had automatically received the update by the time I got home from work. I rebooted it and after waiting 15 minutes or so for the update to apply, success. Now running 9.2.j.
> 
> HOWEVER,
> 
> TivoHD:
> In my excitement, I couldn't wait for a Tivo Verified drive so I bought a Seagate FreeAgent Pro500gb drive. I powered off my tivo and plugged in the drive with the proper sized esata cord. Upon powering up the Tivo, it gets to the Welcome! Powering Up... screen, holds there for about 45 seconds and then reboots continually in a loop until I unplug the esata cord from the tivo at which time it reboots normally.
> 
> So...after all of that, no esata. Anyone help?


I have this exact same problem with a S3 and a WD My Book Home.


----------



## George Cifranci

I just got *9.2.J1* on my Tivo Series 3 last night. I have a internal 750GB Seagate DB35 that I had upgraded to before even powering on my Series 3 for the first time back in Jan. Then later using MFSLive CD I added another Seagate 750GB DB35 in a Antec MX-1 eSata enclosure (for a total of 1.5TB).

I am happy to report that after getting 9.2j last night and rebooting my eSata config is still working fine.


----------



## jlb

rrman said:


> Best Buy sells the My DVR for $219.99. Why not get it from Western Digital directly for $199.99 (don't know what they charge for shipping though, and how that would compare when paying state tax for a BB purchase):
> 
> http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=334


Out of curiosity, I put one in the Cart on WD's website. I live in MA and Standard Shipping was "estimated" at $8.61. So it would be cheaper to pay the WD price plus shipping than $231 (with MA sales tax) at a BB store or $241 from BB online (shipping plus Tax).

Methinks one idea for those inclined to get something is to 1) wait until the TiVo verified list is released, and 2) hope that maybe there will be a deal on one for Black Friday.


----------



## pjhartman

jlb said:


> Out of curiosity, I put one in the Cart on WD's website. I live in MA and Standard Shipping was "estimated" at $8.61. So it would be cheaper to pay the WD price plus shipping than $231 (with MA sales tax) at a BB store or $241 from BB online (shipping plus Tax).


WDC.com is offering free shipping on orders $200 and over.

Add the drive and a SATA cable (9.99) and you get free shipping.


----------



## vstone

richsadams said:


> ...
> Learn more at the TiVo S3 and TiVo HD Plug and Play eSATA drive expansion thread. (Yes, reading all of the posts on these threads will usually keep you out of trouble - see #3  )
> ...


Endless loop


----------



## bkdtv

This morning, Tivo officially launched its new storage product. More information @ http://www.tivo.com/expand/.

It is available for order *right now* @

https://www3.tivo.com/store/accessories.do#expander


----------



## richsadams

George Cifranci said:


> I just got *9.2.J1* on my Tivo Series 3 last night. I have a internal 750GB Seagate DB35 that I had upgraded to before even powering on my Series 3 for the first time back in Jan. Then later using MFSLive CD I added another Seagate 750GB DB35 in a Antec MX-1 eSata enclosure (for a total of 1.5TB).
> 
> I am happy to report that after getting 9.2j last night and rebooting my eSata config is still working fine.


All good news for us nervous types.  Thanks! :up:


----------



## mute

What I'm dying to know, is why TiVo is allowing s3 owners to use unsupported eSATA drives, but not THD users? 

TiVoPony has said that they aren't allowing people who have hacked their internal drives to use eSATA via the pnp method because they'd already run into problems, but why are they not allowing THD users anything?

I held off on upgrading my internal drive for this very reason, but now that I've more or less been told that the MX-1+750gb DB35 I bought aren't going to work w/o hacking, I might just say screw it and hack my internal drive, which is what I wanted to avoid doing all along.

Le sigh!


----------



## naclone

mute said:


> What I'm dying to know, is why TiVo is allowing s3 owners to use unsupported eSATA drives, but not THD users?
> 
> TiVoPony has said that they aren't allowing people who have hacked their internal drives to use eSATA via the pnp method because they'd already run into problems, but why are they not allowing THD users anything?
> 
> I held off on upgrading my internal drive for this very reason, but now that I've more or less been told that the MX-1+750gb DB35 I bought aren't going to work w/o hacking, I might just say screw it and hack my internal drive, which is what I wanted to avoid doing all along.
> 
> Le sigh!


My guess is that the lower price point unit is the one that will have the largest market penetration and therefore from a customer service cost standpoint it makes sense to limit support for the mass unit to one (or maybe two) expansion solution so customer service reps don't have to "learn" dozens of solutions.

fewer customers have the S3 and it has always been marketed as the solution for home theater enthusiasts who are more likely to be more technically savvy. All of which generates fewer calls and limits the strain on customer service. Plus, the S3 is a higher priced unit and there are few things separating it from the lower priced THD units. supporting some additional expansion solutions is throwing a bone to those early adopters. and TiVo feels like it can "allow" those few customers to go off on their own so long as TiVo absolves itself with a disclaimer. They wouldn't be willing to take on that risk with a more mass-distributed product.


----------



## mute

naclone said:


> My guess is that the lower price point unit is the one that will have the largest market penetration and therefore from a customer service cost standpoint it makes sense to limit support for the mass unit to one (or maybe two) expansion solution so customer service reps don't have to "learn" dozens of solutions.
> 
> fewer customers have the S3 and it has always been marketed as the solution for home theater enthusiasts who are more likely to be more technically savvy. All of which generates fewer calls and limits the strain on customer service. Plus, the S3 is a higher priced unit and there are few things separating it from the lower priced THD units. supporting some additional expansion solutions is throwing a bone to those early adopters. and TiVo feels like it can "allow" those few customers to go off on their own so long as TiVo absolves itself with a disclaimer. They wouldn't be willing to take on that risk with a more mass-distributed product.


I see where you're coming from, but I don't buy it. From a technical standpoint, there's no reason not to. Hooking up an eSATA drive is not like a wireless adapter. Drives may not be PVR compatible, but from the driver perspective, TiVo only has to support the eSATA chipset in the tivo, there is little reason for any eSATA enclosure/drive combo you hook up not to work.

If TiVo's perspective really is that THD users are less savvy, then they are missing out. I am a huge HT guy, but I chose not to buy the s3 because I felt it was overpriced for what it was, and despite the "differences" between the two units, I think real HT enthusiasts would see past the fluff that differentiates the two, a pretty fascia, a bs THX certification and a 2 line VFD that nobody is going to be able to read when it's in their rack.

For the first time since I got my THD, I am disappointed. Sad that I'll have to spend time hacking a device when a PNP solution is staring everyone in the face, backed by a company that is looking to make their lives a wee bit easier than satisfy their customers. TiVo: I'll take my chances, give me the ability to hook an "unauthorized" eSATA device to my THD, I can handle it.


----------



## naclone

mute said:


> If TiVo's perspective really is that THD users are less savvy, then they are missing out. I am a huge HT guy, but I chose not to buy the s3 because I felt it was overpriced for what it was, and despite the "differences" between the two units, I think real HT enthusiasts would see past the fluff that differentiates the two, a pretty fascia, a bs THX certification and a 2 line VFD that nobody is going to be able to read when it's in their rack.
> 
> For the first time since I got my THD, I am disappointed. Sad that I'll have to spend time hacking a device when a PNP solution is staring everyone in the face, backed by a company that is looking to make their lives a wee bit easier than satisfy their customers. TiVo: I'll take my chances, give me the ability to hook an "unauthorized" eSATA device to my THD, I can handle it.


this actually is precisely the point i was trying to make. there really isn't any difference between S3 and THD, so TiVo just added one.


----------



## bkdtv

mute said:


> I see where you're coming from, but I don't buy it. From a technical standpoint, there's no reason not to. Hooking up an eSATA drive is not like a wireless adapter. Drives may not be PVR compatible, but from the driver perspective, TiVo only has to support the eSATA chipset in the tivo, there is little reason for any eSATA enclosure/drive combo you hook up not to work.


As we saw with the previous eSATA thread, most retail eSATA products are intended for PCs and not designed for 24/7 operation. They use enclosures that were not designed to dissipate the heat created from constant writing to disk, which is exactly what a DVR does. When the drives in these products overheat, drive corruption can result, leading to reboots and/or lost recordings.

There's also the issue of cables. Most retail eSATA products include a eSATA cable with a connector that is not sufficiently long to establish a stable and reliable connection with the Tivo. In some cases, the Tivo will not work with these cables at all. In other cases, the Tivo works with these cables, but file corruption can result, resulting in drive corruption and lost recordings.

The "Tivo Verified" Western Digital DVR Expander uses a hard drive specifically designed for DVR applications. The drive has a low-noise profile and uses error handling routines that are optimized for DVRs. The product also includes an eSATA cable that works well with the Tivo. That's not to say you couldn't build your own [reliable] eSATA solution for the Tivo Series3 using a bare internal drive, the appropriate case, and the right eSATA cable, but most retail eSATA drives should be avoided.

Why support all drives on the Series3 and not the TivoHD? I don't know. If I were to speculate, I would say it has something to do with the fact that:


Many enthusiasts had already added drives to the Series3 using the unofficial "kickstart62" method. That "kickstart62" method was not available on the TivoHD;

 Given its lower price, the TivoHD is more of a "mass market" product, and as a result, its users tend to be "less savvy" (as you put it). Tivo wants to minimize its support costs, and allowing "less savvy" users -- 99% of which never read this forum, and don't know about the issues mentioned above -- to add their own drives would create a lot of support headaches.
The price on the Western Digital DVR Expander isn't bad when you consider it includes (1) a drive with firmware designed for DVRs, (2) an eSATA enclosure with sufficient dissipation for that particular drive, (3) a suitable eSATA cable, and (4) the full backing of Tivo should you ever have any problems. You would pay $120-$150 to buy that drive separately, another $40-$50 for a suitable enclosure like the Antec MX-1, and another $10-$20 for an eSATA cable that works well with the Tivo. Official Tivo support is also worth something, although I don't know how to quantify that.


----------



## spectrumsp

mute said:


> What I'm dying to know, is why TiVo is allowing s3 owners to use unsupported eSATA drives, but not THD users?
> 
> TiVoPony has said that they aren't allowing people who have hacked their internal drives to use eSATA via the pnp method because they'd already run into problems, but why are they not allowing THD users anything?
> 
> I held off on upgrading my internal drive for this very reason, but now that I've more or less been told that the MX-1+750gb DB35 I bought aren't going to work w/o hacking, I might just say screw it and hack my internal drive, which is what I wanted to avoid doing all along.
> 
> Le sigh!


Totally, 100% agree with your statement...I have previouly purchsed a MX-1 w/1 TB WD HDD...now it's just a paperweight unless I want to make additional modifications...the MX-1 works fine as a PnP on the S3...it should be allowed to function in the same manner on the THD!


----------



## vstone

WD reports that My DVR Expander is certified wirh S2 and HD:

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/news/2007/10/wdr_delivers_hu.php


----------



## singletb

Anyone know if this Seagate drive with enclosure meets the 24/7 and fan requirements? It looks like it might contain one of the reccomended drives, but I can't really tell.


----------



## bkdtv

singletb said:


> Anyone know if this Seagate drive with enclosure meets the 24/7 and fan requirements? It looks like it might contain one of the reccomended drives, but I can't really tell.


No, it does not.

Many used that drive with the Series3 using the previous, unsupported kickstart62 method. It worked fine for some, but many had that drive fail.

Seagate does not sell any eSATA drives for DVRs. All of Seagate's eSATA drives are intended for PCs and include cooling appropriate for that use.


----------



## richsadams

singletb said:


> Anyone know if this Seagate drive with enclosure meets the 24/7 and fan requirements? It looks like it might contain one of the recommended drives, but I can't really tell.


Going back to last May when a lot of us got into this, the FAP's returned mixed results. The supplied eSATA cables were not functional without modifications and there were a number of reported heat issues. Some folks are still using them without trouble, but others were not happy and ended up with reboots, lost programs, etc. IIRC, they became a "not recommended" drive. More here...see #36 in particular.

EDIT: Ha! I see *bkdtv * replied at the same time...he's the expert so I'll defer...although great minds think alike.


----------



## rrman

Just to add another data point.

With TiVo version 9.2, I was able to successfully add a non-supported eSata drive to my TiVo Series 3 (I did not connect the eSata drive to my TiVo until after I got version 9.2). I am using the Seagate 750DB DB35 drive (model ST3750840SCE), the Antec MX-1 enclosure, and the SIIG eSata 1m cable (CB-SA0111-S1). 
As explained earlier, TiVo warns that the drive is not officially supported, but allows you to add it anyway to a TiVo Series 3.

Now, I'm going to get the officially supported WD drive for my other TiVo, a TiVo HD.


----------



## rrman

bkdtv said:


> Seagate does not sell any eSATA drives for DVRs. All of Seagate's eSATA drives are intended for PCs and include cooling appropriate for that use.


Just to clarify for other readers, bkdtv is saying that Seagate does not sell drives that are _already_ inside an external enclosure that are intended for DVRs. But, Seagate does sell standalone drives that are intended to be used for DVRs (i.e. the DB35 series). But, these would have to be put in a separately purchased external enclosure (such as the Antec MX-1).

Anyway, I actually purchased my 750GB DB35 drive a few days ago, right before TiVo announced their official support for eSata drives. I was actually torn between the 500GB WD My DVR drive and the Seagate drive. The 500GB WD drive's price was not bad, and the 750GB DB35 with Antec MX-1 and SIIG eSata cable was more than 50% more than the WD drive (so you paid more than 50% of the price for only 50% increase in capacity). But, 750GB was much more alluring than 500GB. If I had to do it now, my decision on what drive to purchase may have been different, but now that I have the Seagate (and can't return it), I'm glad I have 750GB. Hope it provides trouble free performance for a long time....


----------



## bkdtv

Thanks rrman. That is absolutely right; in fact, the Seagate DB35 was one of the most popular drives added to the Series3 with its unofficial eSATA support in 8.3.x.

It's too bad Seagate doesn't sell that drive in an eSATA enclosure for use with DVRs.


----------



## andrews777

I have to ask why Tivo felt compelled to record shows on both the external and internal drives. Dish just released their external storage option which allows users to swap drives between their DVRs (as long as they are on the same account).

This is annoying, though something I will likely live with. Now I have to decide if the My DVR Expander drive from the WD site is the same as the one from the Tivo site, saving me about $40.

Brad


----------



## George Cifranci

I thought this was a interesting quote from TivoPony that is appropriate for this thread...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5624966&&#post5624966



TiVoPony said:


> The backdoor that allowed any eSATA drive to work with the Series3 was not intended for public consumption. Once it got out though, there was little we could do short of disabling all the drives the community had already purchased and installed. That would have been unpleasant for everyone, so the Series3 is grandfathered to work with non-verified eSATA drives via the eSATA menus. We will not provide any support however for non-verified drives, or any issues that arise from having used one.
> 
> There wasn't a backdoor for the TiVo HD platform, nor will there be one. The TiVo Verified solutions are the way to go with a TiVo HD. I'd recommend it for the Series3 as well!
> 
> Pony


----------



## bkdtv

George Cifranci said:


> I thought this was a interesting quote from TivoPony that is appropriate for this thread...
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5624966&&#post5624966


Thanks, I added that as FAQ #4.


----------



## HDTiVo

bkdtv said:


> Thanks, I added that as FAQ #4.


I fail to see how not allowing S3s to marry drives in the future would have disabled already married drives.


----------



## kingmiwok

Any ideas what the Tivo looks for when determining if the newly attached eSATA drive is a Western Digital DVR Expander, or not? Is it the hard drive itself, or the chipset/board in the eSATA enclosure, or both. 

Assuming budget is not an issue, and you want maximum compatibility and capacity for S3 and HD versions... could you purchase a Western Digital DVR Expander and replace the drive with a 1TB drive? Would the Tivo know? Would it see it as a 1T "certified" drive?


----------



## HDTiVo

mute said:


> What I'm dying to know, is why TiVo is allowing s3 owners to use unsupported eSATA drives, but not THD users?
> 
> TiVoPony has said that they aren't allowing people who have hacked their internal drives to use eSATA via the pnp method because they'd already run into problems, but why are they not allowing THD users anything?


I recommend skepticism and critical reading in this situation.


----------



## bkdtv

kingmiwok said:


> Any ideas what the Tivo looks for when determining if the newly attached eSATA drive is a Western Digital DVR Expander, or not? Is it the hard drive itself, or the chipset/board in the eSATA enclosure, or both.
> 
> Assuming budget is not an issue, and you want maximum compatibility and capacity for S3 and HD versions... could you purchase a Western Digital DVR Expander and replace the drive with a 1TB drive? Would the Tivo know? Would it see it as a 1T "certified" drive?


I doubt that would work.

Tivo probably checks the specific model drive and/or its firmware. The enclosure probably doesn't have much to do with the compatibility.


----------



## bkdtv

HDTiVo said:


> I fail to see how not allowing S3s to marry drives in the future would have disabled already married drives.


I don't understand your comment.

Tivo is not disabling any drives married under the previous software.


----------



## HDTiVo

bkdtv said:


> (4) the full backing of Tivo should you ever have any problems.


Is that a positive or negative dollar amount?


----------



## HDTiVo

bkdtv said:


> I don't understand your comment.
> 
> Tivo is not disabling any drives married under the previous software.


Really refering to TiVoPony which you were incorporating into the FAQ. I can't imagine why not having the S3 PnP marry those drives going forward would involve disabling previously married drives using KS62, which is part of what Pony implies.



> Originally Posted by TiVoPony
> The backdoor that allowed any eSATA drive to work with the Series3 was not intended for public consumption. Once it got out though, there was little we could do short of disabling all the drives the community had already purchased and installed.


----------



## bkdtv

HDTiVo said:


> Really refering to TiVoPony which you were incorporating into the FAQ. I can't imagine why not having the S3 PnP marry those drives going forward would involve disabling previously married drives using KS62, which is part of what Pony implies.


Ahh, I see what you mean.

He probably meant that if the user ever "unmarried" the drive, they would be unable to add it again. TivoPony does his best to simplify issues here on TCF. Some members are too smart for their own good. 

As an aside, I merged in the contents of the old 8.3.x FAQ under the the "Non Verified" section.


----------



## nexus99

The Western Digital My Book Home Edition 1TB is verified to NOT work with 9.2J on a S3. It looks like WD really wants us to by the 500GB version.


----------



## mattack

Non-verified step 14 says:
You cannot backup the drive itself, but you can't copy recordings to your PC using TivoToGo.

I think the latter part is supposed to be "but you can copy recordings to your PC...",
meaning BEFORE you remove the drive... (I think)

(Bummer, so this means that the mfscopy | mfsrestore tools that have worked forever don't work on S3/TivoHD??)


----------



## Kev639

Does anyone know how long the eSATA cable that is included with the WD verifiied drive is?


----------



## bkdtv

mattack said:


> Non-verified step 14 says:
> You cannot backup the drive itself, but you can't copy recordings to your PC using TivoToGo.
> 
> I think the latter part is supposed to be "but you can copy recordings to your PC...",
> meaning BEFORE you remove the drive... (I think)


Typo fixed, thanks.



mattack said:


> (Bummer, so this means that the mfscopy | mfsrestore tools that have worked forever don't work on S3/TivoHD??)


I know those tools work on the main drive. But I was previously told that one could not backup recordings from one eSATA drive and restore it to another. If that is possible, please let me know and I will fix that.


----------



## 1283

nexus99 said:


> The Western Digital My Book Home Edition 1TB is verified to NOT work with 9.2J on a S3. It looks like WD really wants us to by the 500GB version.


Isn't it possible that something is wrong with the drive, cable, or the TiVo?


----------



## bkdtv

nexus99 said:


> The Western Digital My Book Home Edition 1TB is verified to NOT work with 9.2J on a S3. It looks like WD really wants us to by the 500GB version.


What eSATA cable did you use?

As indicated in FAQ #5 of the Non Verified section, many PC eSATA drives ship with cables that are not compatible with the Tivo.


----------



## nexus99

I'm using the SIIG cable that most everyone here uses. The drive is verified to work with a PC via firewire, eSata (using my sig cable), and USB. I have not ruled out that there could be a problem with the Tivo yet though. I will be returning the My Book and getting an Antec MX1. I'll report back on how that goes.


----------



## bkdtv

nexus99 said:


> I'm using the SIIG cable that most everyone here uses. The drive is verified to work with a PC via firewire, eSata (using my sig cable), and USB. I have not ruled out that there could be a problem with the Tivo yet though. I will be returning the My Book and getting an Antec MX1. I'll report back on how that goes.


Before you return it, could you try removing all drive partitions using your PC?

Open Computer Management under Control Panel -> Administrative Tools.

In Computer Management, select Storage -> Disk Management. Select the eSATA drive and choose delete volume. After you delete the volume, reboot, then remove the eSATA drive and try it again on the Tivo.

Let me know if that makes any difference.


----------



## nexus99

I did that too. I blasted the partition and attempted to PnP as well as boot with the drive attached. No dice. I am thinking that it has to be something with the eSATA to SATA chipset in the My Book Home. I am pretty sure that the TIVO can't POST with the drive attached.


----------



## HDTiVo

bkdtv said:


> He probably meant that if the user ever "unmarried" the drive, they would be unable to add it again.


I suggest you write it up just that way so there is never any confusion down the road.


----------



## fred2

bkdtv said:


> Typo fixed, thanks.
> 
> I know those tools work on the main drive. But I was previously told that one could not backup recordings from one eSATA drive and restore it to another. If that is possible, please let me know and I will fix that.


I thought that someone mentioned in a thread that he did copy the drive and restore it....

found it, I think:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=369296


----------



## bkdtv

fred2 said:


> I thought that someone mentioned in a thread that he did copy the drive and restore it....
> 
> found it, I think:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=369296


Thanks. I will remove that answer while I wait confirmation.


----------



## 1283

fred2 said:


> I thought that someone mentioned in a thread that he did copy the drive and restore it....
> 
> found it, I think:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=369296


That's just copying the entire drive bit by bit. As far as the TiVo is concerned, nothing changed. You cannot:

1. Unplug drive A from TiVo.
2. Copy drive A to drive B.
3. Plug drive A back into TiVo.
4. Unplug drive A and plug in drive B. <<< This should NOT work.


----------



## dsabine

I have to say that I am disgusted with Tivo's decision to not allow NON-VERIFIED drives for use with S3HD but to allow use with the more expensive S3. The most ridiculous part of this is that it has been indicated that Tivo didn't want to provide support for these drives. Tivo doesn't have to provide support, they could simply indicate that the user may or may not have positive results with this particular external drive but that Tivo cannot in way warrant the use of the drive.

What really gets me HOT UNDER THE COLLAR is that I bought a *CERTIFIED* and *RECOMMENDED DRIVE* as listed in the forums. See link:

Question # 33 - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=350510

*The Western Digital WD5000AVJS is intended for DVR use and certified for 24/7 use but will not work with the S3HD - See the links that I've included here!*

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=280&language=en

http://www.wdc.com/en/library/ce/2879-701220.pdf

I am one of the may Tivo devotees that will now, NOT BE ABLE TO RECOMMEND Tivo to friends. I've had two S1's, one S2 and now the S3HD. I waited patiently for the 9.2 with eSata expansion for RECOMMENDED AV DRIVES. I didn't open the box. when I found out the "62" kickstart wasn't going to work, I waited and requested the Priority 9.2 software update.

Before anyone tries to flame and say that I can use a non-recommended drive by using the MFSLive, DON'T. It's ridiculous because I now have to void a warranty if I want to upgrade by opening the case so that I can marry drives. The capability is there to use the eSata port to use more than a pretty package WD drive that Tivo has partnered to sell. If the drive I have is made for DVR's as it is and is certified by WD then my S3HD should recognize and format.

Here's the solution to it all www.mythtv.com along with a long list of features that we'll *never see on a Tivo.*


----------



## JohnBrowning

dsabine said:


> What really gets me HOT UNDER THE COLLAR is that I bought a *CERTIFIED* and *RECOMMENDED DRIVE* as listed in the forums.


To think that anything recommended on a forum would necessarily be certified by anyone is simply ludicrous!!!


----------



## HDTiVo

JohnBrowning said:


> To think that anything recommended on a forum would necessarily be certified by anyone is simply ludicrous!!!


Yeah, to confuse the forum with TiVo is a mistake. Besides, KS62 only worked with S3, it was obviously not there for THD. Plus to a great extent eSata discussion here is about MFS style efforts as well as PnP.

However, expecting that TiVo allow other drives to be married after a warning, as they do with the S3, is reasonable.


----------



## naclone

dsabine said:


> I have to say that I am disgusted with Tivo's decision to not allow NON-VERIFIED drives for use with S3HD but to allow use with the more expensive S3.


sometimes, you get what you pay for.

look, you were able to get just about everything i paid $800 dollars for last year by outlaying only $300. non-verified drive support or not, you made out pretty good.


----------



## mappler

I'm having trouble understanding some of the sentiment regarding the cost of the new drive. (I understand the desire to add more space than 500gb)

It seems to me the TiVo solution for a 500gb external drive is a good price. Is there something here I am missing in the math? (Note: all numbers from "thenerds.net" for no reason other than that's what I picked)

Seagate DB35 500gb drive: $138.65
Antex MX-1 Enclosure: $48.65
SIIG cable: $10.20
Total: $197.50 

TiVo certified solution: $199.99

Cost difference: $2.49 (assuming equal shipping costs?)

Obviously your choice of storage space expansion is limited with this solution, but from a price standpoint, isn't this a total wash? 

-Matt


----------



## mute

mappler said:


> I'm having trouble understanding some of the sentiment regarding the cost of the new drive. (I understand the desire to add more space than 500gb)
> 
> It seems to me the TiVo solution for a 500gb external drive is a good price. Is there something here I am missing in the math? (Note: all numbers from "thenerds.net" for no reason other than that's what I picked)
> 
> Seagate DB35 500gb drive: $138.65
> Antex MX-1 Enclosure: $48.65
> SIIG cable: $10.20
> Total: $197.50
> 
> TiVo certified solution: $199.99
> 
> Cost difference: $2.49 (assuming equal shipping costs?)
> 
> Obviously your choice of storage space expansion is limited with this solution, but from a price standpoint, isn't this a total wash?
> 
> -Matt


I scored my 750gb DB35 for $160 w/ free shipping (not even on a deal), I believe the total cost of my external enclosure was ~$180 (had a $20 gc on the MX-1), so no, I wouldn't consider 50% more storage for less a wash.


----------



## Talsarris

mute said:


> I scored my 75gb DB35 for $160 w/ free shipping (not even on a deal), I believe the total cost of my external enclosure was ~$180 (had a $20 gc on the MX-1), so no, I wouldn't consider 50% more storage for less a wash.


Why do people quote prices with GCs as being a better deal? While your deal overall is better because of the larger HDD, it isn't cheaper, you spent $20 over that amount.


----------



## richsadams

dsabine said:


> I have to say that I am disgusted with Tivo's decision to not allow NON-VERIFIED drives for use with S3HD but to allow use with the more expensive S3. The most ridiculous part of this is that it has been indicated that Tivo didn't want to provide support for these drives. Tivo doesn't have to provide support, they could simply indicate that the user may or may not have positive results with this particular external drive but that Tivo cannot in way warrant the use of the drive.
> 
> What really gets me HOT UNDER THE COLLAR is that I bought a *CERTIFIED* and *RECOMMENDED DRIVE* as listed in the forums. See link:
> 
> Question # 33 - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=350510
> 
> *The Western Digital WD5000AVJS is intended for DVR use and certified for 24/7 use but will not work with the S3HD - See the links that I've included here!*
> 
> http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=280&language=en
> 
> http://www.wdc.com/en/library/ce/2879-701220.pdf
> 
> I am one of the may Tivo devotees that will now, NOT BE ABLE TO RECOMMEND Tivo to friends. I've had two S1's, one S2 and now the S3HD. I waited patiently for the 9.2 with eSata expansion for RECOMMENDED AV DRIVES. I didn't open the box. when I found out the "62" kickstart wasn't going to work, I waited and requested the Priority 9.2 software update.
> 
> Before anyone tries to flame and say that I can use a non-recommended drive by using the MFSLive, DON'T. It's ridiculous because I now have to void a warranty if I want to upgrade by opening the case so that I can marry drives. The capability is there to use the eSata port to use more than a pretty package WD drive that Tivo has partnered to sell. If the drive I have is made for DVR's as it is and is certified by WD then my S3HD should recognize and format.
> 
> Here's the solution to it all www.mythtv.com along with a long list of features that we'll *never see on a Tivo.*


 Begging not to be flamed for a rant? Heres hoping that folks will be kind.  Your frustration is understandable, but misplaced IMHO.

First and foremost, the drive you purchase was neither certified nor recommended by TiVo, end of story. There are a lot of us here that have been tweaking, modding and hacking TiVo for many years. None of us expect what weve done to work forever (if at all sometimes  ) but historically TiVo has "accommodated" us as they have this time. The explanation given by TiVo is exactly what we'd hoped for. It could have easily gone the other way, infuriating a lot more long-time customers w/modified S3s.

TiVos decisions for expansion options on the S3 and the THD were based on common sense and more importantly solid business practices; being able to offer an expansion option _and _support in the most cost-effective manner.

Were going to replace our S2s with THDs and I wish theyd do whatever I dream up as well, but for now they wont and Im not going to cry about it.

If you want to ensure your warranty stays intact and want more HDD space add the approved eSATA drive to your THD. Or have some patience because I suspect there will be a work around sooner than later. Or return it, get an S3 and use the drive you have. Or enjoy MythTV. (FYI, Ive used it and it doesnt hold a candle to TiVo.)

So you can beat up on the folks on this forum for their creativity, but TiVo has lived up to its word as far as I can see. :up:

My two cents.


----------



## mute

Talsarris said:


> Why do people quote prices with GCs as being a better deal? While your deal overall is better because of the larger HDD, it isn't cheaper, you spent $20 over that amount.


It was a $20 gc. What's a better deal? Spending:

$199 for a 500gb drive in eSATA enclosure
$210 for a 750gb drive in eSATA enclosure?

If you rolled into best buy and spent $40 on an MX-1 and picked up the SIIG cable and 750gb drive which is available all over the net at $160, you're getting 50% more storage for $11 more.. you do the math.

The My DVR drive is indeed sanctioned by tivo, but it's not a good deal from the $/gb perspective.


----------



## bkdtv

dsabine said:


> I have to say that I am disgusted with Tivo's decision to not allow NON-VERIFIED drives for use with S3HD but to allow use with the more expensive S3. The most ridiculous part of this is that it has been indicated that Tivo didn't want to provide support for these drives. Tivo doesn't have to provide support, they could simply indicate that the user may or may not have positive results with this particular external drive but that Tivo cannot in way warrant the use of the drive.
> 
> What really gets me HOT UNDER THE COLLAR is that I bought a *CERTIFIED* and *RECOMMENDED DRIVE* as listed in the forums. See link:
> 
> Question # 33 - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=350510


You are confusing manufacturer certified bare drive with "TiVo cerified" eSATA solution.

Manufacturers market those *bare drives* for DVR use, but they can still fail if you stick them in the wrong enclosure. The Western Digital My DVR Expander is *TiVo's* verified *eSATA solution* with drive, enclosure, and cable.

The previous FAQ (#32 and #37) listed the Western Digital My DVR Expander as a recommended drive. That was and still is the only full eSATA solution -- with drive, enclosure, and cable -- that is sold specifically for use with DVRs. I originally added that enclosure to FAQ #37 because of that fact, and because a member on AVS noticed something very interesting -- the My DVR Expander they received had a sticker which actually mentioned Tivo.



dsabine said:


> I am one of the may Tivo devotees that will now, NOT BE ABLE TO RECOMMEND Tivo to friends. I've had two S1's, one S2 and now the S3HD. I waited patiently for the 9.2 with eSata expansion for RECOMMENDED AV DRIVES. I didn't open the box. when I found out the "62" kickstart wasn't going to work, I waited and requested the Priority 9.2 software update.


That was your mistake.

The previous FAQ for unofficial eSATA expansion in the 8.x software made it *very clear* that (1) Tivo did not officially support eSATA expansion, and (2) the kickstart62 method to enable eSATA did not work in the TivoHD. In fact, it went one step further and recommended that TivoHD users wait.



Previous_eSATA_FAQ said:


> *Does this method work on the TivoHD?*
> 
> No. However, with the TivoHD software v8.1.7c2 released September 5th, it is now possible to enable eSATA with an alternative method. This alternative method is more complicated and requires that you to remove the original drive from the TivoHD.
> 
> I recommend that TivoHD owners wait for Tivo to officially support eSATA expansion.
> 
> *Is eSATA expansion officially supported by Tivo?* Not yet. But it works very well.





dsabine said:


> Here's the solution to it all www.mythtv.com along with a long list of features that we'll never see on a Tivo


Unless all you watch is local channels, MythTV cannot begin to compare to the functionality of a Tivo. MythTV does not -- and never will -- support CableCards, hence it cannot directly support encrypted high-definition channels. MythTV doesn't work with copy-protected high-definition recordings at all.


----------



## mooneydriver

George Cifranci said:


> I just got *9.2.J1* on my Tivo Series 3 last night. I have a internal 750GB Seagate DB35 that I had upgraded to before even powering on my Series 3 for the first time back in Jan. Then later using MFSLive CD I added another Seagate 750GB DB35 in a Antec MX-1 eSata enclosure (for a total of 1.5TB).
> 
> I am happy to report that after getting 9.2j last night and rebooting my eSata config is still working fine.


The process of attaching an eSATA drive to an already-upgraded S3 is a mystery to me. The MFSLive web site does not have clear instructions. I looked at the FAQ under the "III. Non-Verified Drives" section, and the process described there didn't make much sense to me. Step 2 says "shut down windows and attach original tivo drive and your new eSATA drive." What am I missing here? Does it mean the "original" 250 GB drive, or the already-upgraded 500/750/1000 GB drive?

Are there others besides George Cifranci who has successfully married an eSATA drive to an upgraded S3? sfhub, perhaps?


----------



## mute

The thing that bums me out about the official eSATA solution is this. 

I'm over being bitter about TiVo deciding that THD and S3 owners don't get the same feature set. I've been trying to figure out what the hell they are doing with the S3 anyway, since you don't see them in stores or advertised much. I was on the fence when I made my purchase, but I figured that the S3 was on it's way out. I bought the THD and don't regret it (that much yet). Even if it's not the "enthusiasts" model, even if it's ugly, and even if it's not up to par with the rest of the equipment I have in my system $$$-wise. At any rate I'm rambling.

As I see it, TiVo had one chance to get the eSATA solution right. They rolled out a 500gb drive that gives what, 60 hours of HD and some large amount of SD hours. This is the only option for THD owners, and I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that the THD is selling circles around the S3.

So THD owners who want their warranties or are non technical are stuck with 70 hours of HD content. Forever. 

But wait! I'm sure TiVo will come out with a larger capacity more expensive unit in a couple months, and all those THD owners will have the privilege of upgrading if they want to! It'll only cost you an additional $300 for 750gb or $400 for 1tb, and the best part is you get to lose all of your shows during the upgrade process!

I get the whole partnership with WD thing. We all saw it coming, it makes perfect business sense. Why they chose not to roll out a couple models to give users the ability to make their upgrade decisions based on their needs rather than locking them into a single option is beyond me.

So those of us who bought external non supported eSATA drives for their THD are boned, fair enough we took our chance. It's not as though their useless, we can hack our units and forgo the warranty.

Who I really feel sorry for are the people who are going to buy the 500gb My DVR drives, who will love their tivos but be constantly yearning for more than 80 hours of HD content, and are going to get burned by the "early adopter" thing that TiVo seems to be so good at lately.


----------



## richsadams

mute said:


> Who I really feel sorry for are the people who are going to buy the 500gb My DVR drives, who will love their tivos but be constantly yearning for more than 80 hours of HD content, and are going to get burned by the "early adopter" thing that TiVo seems to be so good at lately.


All good points and couldn't agree more with the last one. But with computer equipment...which is what TiVo is really...that's to be expected I'm afraid.

We didn't pay full boat for our S3, but close to and if we had waited until now the price for the same thing (more or less) would be much less. I'm sure there will be more options...for less...in the months to come. I also think there will be other solutions pretty soon if the creative folks here have anything to do with it.


----------



## George Cifranci

mooneydriver said:


> The process of attaching an eSATA drive to an already-upgraded S3 is a mystery to me. The MFSLive web site does not have clear instructions. I looked at the FAQ under the "III. Non-Verified Drives" section, and the process described there didn't make much sense to me. Step 2 says "shut down windows and attach original tivo drive and your new eSATA drive." What am I missing here? Does it mean the "original" 250 GB drive, or the already-upgraded 500/750/1000 GB drive?
> 
> Are there others besides George Cifranci who has successfully married an eSATA drive to an upgraded S3? sfhub, perhaps?


No, you do not use the original 250GB drive. You use the current internal drive in your Series 3. You connect both your new eSata drive and the internal Series 3 drive to a PC and load the MFSTools CD and run that command. Here is an entry in thread I posted discussing the details of what I did.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5279858#post5279858

There are a number of others that have done this as well.


----------



## mooneydriver

Great -- thanks, George! I must have missed the thread where your detailed instructions were posted (too many threads on this topic these days!)


----------



## Fofer

George Cifranci said:


> No, you do not use the original 250GB drive. You use the current internal drive in your Series 3. You connect both your new eSata drive and the internal Series 3 drive to a PC and load the MFSTools CD and run that command. Here is an entry in thread I posted discussing the details of what I did.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5279858#post5279858
> 
> There are a number of others that have done this as well.


Thanks for this post, George. I bought a 750 GB drive that's now internal in my Series 3 and it's been working well for awhile now. I've been curious to know how to add an eSATA drive to it externally... and it sounds like your tip is the way to do it, without losing any of my exisiting recordings.

Sounds like aside from the hassle of removing the hardware from the TiVo and putting it into the PC and then back into the TiVo, that it doesn't take that much time at all. I was afraid I'd have to back up all the recordings or something.


----------



## mvnuenen

Hey bkdtv... I'm a bit surprised I'm going to be the first (I think), but, a BIG THANKS for the nice overview and the work you put into it! :up: :up: :up:


----------



## Fab2004

I've been trying to find the 750gb for $160 but don't seem to find it. Can you point me to some seller w/ that price?



mute said:


> It was a $20 gc. What's a better deal? Spending:
> 
> $199 for a 500gb drive in eSATA enclosure
> $210 for a 750gb drive in eSATA enclosure?
> 
> If you rolled into best buy and spent $40 on an MX-1 and picked up the SIIG cable and 750gb drive which is available all over the net at $160, you're getting 50% more storage for $11 more.. you do the math.
> 
> The My DVR drive is indeed sanctioned by tivo, but it's not a good deal from the $/gb perspective.


----------



## mappler

mute said:


> I scored my 750gb DB35 for $160 w/ free shipping (not even on a deal), I believe the total cost of my external enclosure was ~$180 (had a $20 gc on the MX-1), so no, I wouldn't consider 50% more storage for less a wash.


Lowest price on Pricegrabber for the 750gb DB5 is $238.
Lowest price on Pricegrabber for the Antec MX-1 is $48.

That looks like a combined $286 plus $10 the SIIG cable (all assuming shipping charges are equal, but I"m taking lowest prices from multiple stores).

That looks like it is $296, or $1 cheaper than buying it (and likely saving shipping) from the single retailer I picked at random earlier. The total is 50% more for 50% ore storage space....

I'd love to know where to get this cheaper!!!


----------



## mute

Ok Ok, time for me to eat crow. I got my drive for $260 shipped (saveateagle.com iirc). I don't know why I thought my total out the door cost was so low. I think I was trying to minimize my loss subconsciously or something.

So as mentioned it's 50% more for 50% more. That's still a better deal in my mind considering you can't daisy chain drives, and there's no way to divorce/upgrade without losing your shows. 

I still think that a more expensive/larger drive would have been nice. What about those "enthusiasts" that are willing to pay more for the series 3 tivos? They are still roped into the 500gb drive if they care about their warranty.

At this point I'm not sure which route I will take. I am likely to replace my A drive w/ the 750gb, and shelf the enclosure for some other project, or until I run out of space with a 750gb A drive, and pick up another drive for the MX-1.

Seems like if I am going to void my warranty either way, I'd be better off losing 20 hours of HD and keeping the stock drive as a backup than I am marrying it to an external drive.


----------



## Fab2004

So $199 + s/h for 500gb is a pretty good value for a DVR certified drive after all.
I wonder if people had much luck with non DVR certified drives -- I replaced my Series1 internal drive with a generic one in 2003 and it's still going.

I'm wondering (apart from the DVR certified list) which drive would be a good option noise-wise, any ideas?



 mute said:


> Ok Ok, time for me to eat crow. I got my drive for $260 shipped (saveateagle.com iirc). I don't know why I thought my total out the door cost was so low. I think I was trying to minimize my loss subconsciously or something.
> 
> So as mentioned it's 50% more for 50% more. That's still a better deal in my mind considering you can't daisy chain drives, and there's no way to divorce/upgrade without losing your shows.
> 
> I still think that a more expensive/larger drive would have been nice. What about those "enthusiasts" that are willing to pay more for the series 3 tivos? They are still roped into the 500gb drive if they care about their warranty.
> 
> At this point I'm not sure which route I will take. I am likely to replace my A drive w/ the 750gb, and shelf the enclosure for some other project, or until I run out of space with a 750gb A drive, and pick up another drive for the MX-1.
> 
> Seems like if I am going to void my warranty either way, I'd be better off losing 20 hours of HD and keeping the stock drive as a backup than I am marrying it to an external drive.


----------



## richsadams

Fab2004 said:


> So $199 + s/h for 500gb is a pretty good value for a DVR certified drive after all.
> I wonder if people had much luck with non DVR certified drives -- I replaced my Series1 internal drive with a generic one in 2003 and it's still going.
> 
> I'm wondering (apart from the DVR certified list) which drive would be a good option noise-wise, any ideas?


Have a read of the very first post on this thread...it includes a list of very good drives for internal or external use.

EDIT: Noticed that the new WD 1TB "Green" drive is not included but it's gotten some positive responses as well.


----------



## Moricon

My problem with the "approved" solution is that it is a WD drive. My luck with these has always been bad. I much prefer Seagate drives.


----------



## Fab2004

I did say "apart from DVR Certified" what I should have said to be crystal clear would have been: "Intended for DVRs" AND "Cert. for 24/7 Use".

So the question is, apart from this list of expensive "Intended for DVRs" AND "Cert. for 24/7 Use", what other *quiet* drives have people been using with success?

As I also said, I used a "generic" drive in my Series 1, and after 4 years of 24/7 use is still going strong.



richsadams said:


> Have a read of the very first post on this thread...it includes a list of very good drives for internal or external use.
> 
> EDIT: Noticed that the new WD 1TB "Green" drive is not included but it's gotten some positive responses as well.


----------



## richsadams

Fab2004 said:


> I did say "apart from DVR Certified" what I should have said to be crystal clear would have been: "Intended for DVRs" AND "Cert. for 24/7 Use".
> 
> So the question is, apart from this list of expensive "Intended for DVRs" AND "Cert. for 24/7 Use", what other *quiet* drives have people been using with success?
> 
> As I also said, I used a "generic" drive in my Series 1, and after 4 years of 24/7 use is still going strong.


FWIW there's really no such thing as a HDD "certified for 24/7 use", drives intended for DVR use are "normal" HDD's which have had minor tweaks including AAM and most drives can be made "quiet" by using programs such as the Hitachi Feature Tool which will allow you to change the factory's AAM settings.

This thread is the Official eSATA Drive Expansion: FAQ + Discussion sticky. If you're looking for "generic, quiet HDD's" a forum search would be your best bet, anything else is OT. A good place to start would be the TiVo Upgrade Center.


----------



## lrhorer

dsabine said:


> I have to say that I am disgusted with Tivo's decision to not allow NON-VERIFIED drives for use with S3HD but to allow use with the more expensive S3.


No one is saying they don't allow it. Generally speaking, the TiVo (or any host in general) doesn't really have any intimate relationship with an attached standard device like a hard drive. While the host may be able to query specific information such as manufacturer, part number, etc. from the peripheral, the device and the host either conform to the standards specifications of interest or they do not. If they do, they should work together, but occasionally one may encounter problems. That is why manufacturers often refuse to support any peripheral they have not tested. If the devices do not quite conform to the standard, it's a crap shoot. This is a second reason why manufactuers often won't support their devices with untested third party equipment.



dsabine said:


> The most ridiculous part of this is that it has been indicated that Tivo didn't want to provide support for these drives.


There is really no reason they should. If they haven't tested it or they tested it and found issues, then it is neither surprising nor malfeasant on their part not to support it.



dsabine said:


> Tivo doesn't have to provide support, they could simply indicate that the user may or may not have positive results with this particular external drive but that Tivo cannot in way warrant the use of the drive.


This is precisely what they have done.



dsabine said:


> What really gets me HOT UNDER THE COLLAR is that I bought a *CERTIFIED* and *RECOMMENDED DRIVE* as listed in the forums. See link:


The only drive yet certified by TiVo is the DVR Expander. That the drive you purchased is certified for 24/7 operation in a DVR - or any operation for that matter - by its manufacturer in no way means TiVo will or is required to support it. If it works, fine. If it doesn't, tough.



dsabine said:


> I waited patiently for the 9.2 with eSata expansion for RECOMMENDED AV DRIVES. I didn't open the box. when I found out the "62" kickstart wasn't going to work, I waited and requested the Priority 9.2 software update.


That was a lot of fairly predictably useless waiting if you ask me.



dsabine said:


> Before anyone tries to flame and say that I can use a non-recommended drive by using the MFSLive, DON'T. It's ridiculous because I now have to void a warranty if I want to upgrade by opening the case so that I can marry drives.


Don't be silly. Get your money back on the unsupoported drive and buy a supported one. You could also send your TiVo to PTV Upgrade or Weaknees for them to upgrade under third party warranty.


----------



## lrhorer

Fab2004 said:


> So the question is, apart from this list of expensive "Intended for DVRs" AND "Cert. for 24/7 Use", what other *quiet* drives have people been using with success?


Most drives when placed in an Antek MX-1 housing are pretty quiet. I have a regular old Seagate Barracuda 750 in one MX-1 and a Hitachi 1TB Deskstar in another. I can't hear the Hitachi at all, and the Barracuda has seeks which are just barely audible if the sound is shut down completely and the Air Conditioning isn't running.


----------



## bkdtv

richsadams said:


> Have a read of the very first post on this thread...it includes a list of very good drives for internal or external use.
> 
> EDIT: Noticed that the new WD 1TB "Green" drive is not included but it's gotten some positive responses as well.


Since members have had a lot of positive things to say about that drive, I've added it to the first post.


----------



## Fab2004

Thank you!



lrhorer said:


> Most drives when placed in an Antek MX-1 housing are pretty quiet. I have a regular old Seagate Barracuda 750 in one MX-1 and a Hitachi 1TB Deskstar in another. I can't hear the Hitachi at all, and the Barracuda has seeks which are just barely audible if the sound is shut down completely and the Air Conditioning isn't running.


----------



## lrhorer

dsabine said:


> Here's the solution to it all www.mythtv.com along with a long list of features that we'll *never see on a Tivo.*


I'm not sure how that qualifies as "the solution to it all". While MythTV has some very nice features and is of course completely under control of the user in terms of what hardware is used, the last time I checked, MythTV does not have a CableCard solution. That rather blasts the solution out of the water for any of us who have CATV feeds.


----------



## JFalc

For quite a while I have had a Tivo Series 3, with an Antec MX-1 and 500gb Seagate DB-35.

I pulled the trigger recently on the $299 + $199 Tivo HD lifetime transfer.

Tonight I just saw for the first time the MRV enabled!!! Woo hoo!!!

Then, I went online to see posts and feel good about MRV and discovered my new Tivo HD now supports an external drive. I just want to say THANKS TIVO for the option to upgrade my Tivo HD with 500GB in additional space for $199. This differentiates your product further from those cable company boxes and represents a great value to me. $199 is a decent deal for 500gb.

These two major upgrades rolling out the same day. Nice work TIVO. 

-John


----------



## pjhartman

mappler said:


> Cost difference: $2.49 (assuming equal shipping costs?)
> 
> Obviously your choice of storage space expansion is limited with this solution, but from a price standpoint, isn't this a total wash?


Hey, $2.49 is $2.49.


----------



## opus472

richsadams said:


> I'm sure there will be more options...for less...in the months to come. I also think there will be other solutions pretty soon if the creative folks here have anything to do with it.


Yup, but what are folks gonna do about the pile of programs they lose when upgrading? Of course, the big problem is that there's no easy backup solution. Imagine having 500G or 1T of data on your PC with no backup...


----------



## jwalker2020

Does anyone have any data on how noisy this drive/enclosure is?


----------



## vstone

Doesn't the Tivo warranty only last for 90 days? After that you're on your own anyway.


----------



## Joybob

Okay. I need help.

I'm trying to hook up a Seagate Barracude Link
inside a Vizo enclosure using a shielded eSATA cable but the Tivo boots up fine but under settings says nothing is connected. What's the deal?


----------



## bkdtv

jwalker2020 said:


> Does anyone have any data on how noisy this drive/enclosure is?


It's fairly quiet. Noise is comparable to the Tivo itself.



Joybob said:


> I'm trying to hook up a Seagate Barracude Link
> inside a Vizo enclosure using a shielded eSATA cable but the Tivo boots up fine but under settings says nothing is connected. What's the deal?


Do you have a TivoHD or a Series3? What eSATA cable are you using?


----------



## Joybob

bkdtv said:


> It's fairly quiet. Noise is comparable to the Tivo itself.
> 
> Do you have a TivoHD or a Series3? What eSATA cable are you using?


Series 3 with a http://www.sundialmicro.com/IPCQUEE...ERNAL-CABLE-I-TYPE-CLEAR-SILVER_1843_801.html

Although I'm about to cut off some slack to see if sticking the cable in further helps.


----------



## richsadams

opus472 said:


> Yup, but what are folks gonna do about the pile of programs they lose when upgrading? Of course, the big problem is that there's no easy backup solution. Imagine having 500G or 1T of data on your PC with no backup...


Yep, agreed...I'm on your side. There are actually ways to copy everything over (even with multiple drives) during an upgrade, but it's certainly not plug and pray. The need for an easy backup solution has been brought up a number of times over the years. I'm all for it! :up:


----------



## Ivomir

How bright is the light on the front of the WD box compared to the Tivo display?
My Tivo is right next to the bed and I wouldn't want anything brighter at night.
I've seen comments about the MX-1 that the light is not bright enough, so that would be a plus over the WD.


----------



## Fofer

Ivomir, consider this solution:


----------



## AZrob

bkdtv said:


> It's fairly quiet. Noise is comparable to the Tivo itself.


So does that mean that after all is said and done, the combination of Tivo and expansion drive is as loud as having 2 Tivos? My wife is very sensitive to that disk-rumbling sound....

Rob from AZ


----------



## Joybob

Joybob said:


> Series 3 with a http://www.sundialmicro.com/IPCQUEE...ERNAL-CABLE-I-TYPE-CLEAR-SILVER_1843_801.html
> 
> Although I'm about to cut off some slack to see if sticking the cable in further helps.


Confirming that:

1. Seagate Barracuda inside a Vizo Enclosure using a CG6EAS shielded eSATA cable works.

However, you have to chop off some of the excess rubber from the connector for it to go all the way in.


----------



## bkdtv

Joybob said:


> Confirming that:
> 
> 1. Seagate Barracuda inside a Vizo Enclosure using a CG6EAS shielded eSATA cable works.
> 
> However, you have to chop off some of the excess rubber from the connector for it to go all the way in.


Good to hear.

With the unofficial expansion in the 8.3.x software, members found that most eSATA cables simply did not work, or did not work reliably with the Tivo. "Non Verified" FAQ #22 in the first post recommends the SIIG CB-SA0111-S1 eSATA cable, which forum members found to work very well.


----------



## Joybob

bkdtv said:


> Good to hear.
> 
> With the unofficial expansion in the 8.3.x software, members found that most eSATA cables simply did not work, or did not work reliably with the Tivo. "Non Verified" FAQ #22 in the first post recommends the SIIG CB-SA0111-S1 eSATA cable, which forum members found to work very well.


I was going to go with the SIIG cable too but it didn't look shielded. I'm sure cutting off some rubber to make the plug longer will work with any cable.


----------



## lostintvland

I have a sata 1 drive I put in an enclosure and was using with the SA 8300HD dvr from cablevision. It was working just fine and not giving me any trouble. Now that the new software is out for the HD I want to use that drive to expand the HD. Will it work with a sata 1 drive or will that cause a heap of trouble? My other option is getting the new WD official TIVo drive.


----------



## zob

bkdtv said:


> Good to hear.
> 
> With the unofficial expansion in the 8.3.x software, members found that most eSATA cables simply did not work, or did not work reliably with the Tivo. "Non Verified" FAQ #22 in the first post recommends the SIIG CB-SA0111-S1 eSATA cable, which forum members found to work very well.


bkdtv, what happened with the Tripp-Lite cable recommendation that was previously posted? I have been using the Tripp-Lite .5 meter cable with my Antec MX1 & Seagate DB35 HD combination & have zero flaws with it. Is there a potential problem I am not aware of? Thanks.


----------



## bkdtv

zob said:


> bkdtv, what happened with the Tripp-Lite cable recommendation that was previously posted? I have been using the Tripp-Lite .5 meter cable with my Antec MX1 & Seagate DB35 HD combination & have zero flaws with it. Is there a potential problem I am not aware of? Thanks.


I can add that back.

It doesn't fit as "snugly" as the SIIG, so it is more prone to come lose if you are reaching around (or moving) your equipment.


----------



## bkdtv

lostintvland said:


> I have a sata 1 drive I put in an enclosure and was using with the SA 8300HD dvr from cablevision. It was working just fine and not giving me any trouble. Now that the new software is out for the HD I want to use that drive to expand the HD. Will it work with a sata 1 drive or will that cause a heap of trouble? My other option is getting the new WD official TIVo drive.


As per the first post in this thread, the Western Digital DVR Expander is the only eSATA drive that will work with the TivoHD "out of the box."


----------



## zob

bkdtv said:


> I can add that back.
> 
> It doesn't fit as "snugly" as the SIIG, so it is more prone to come lose if you are reaching around (or moving) your equipment.


Well that explains it, because I generally don't move the external drive very often. So that is why haven't seen any problems. Thanks


----------



## selfee

Does anyone know the technical reason that prevents TiVos with expanded internal drives from using the new external expansion out of the box?

In all other respects, the TiVo seems to treat the expanded drive just like its normal original drive, so it seems odd that the external drive won't pair with an embiggened internal drive.


----------



## HDTiVo

selfee said:


> the technical reason that prevents TiVos


They wrote a few lines of code that checks.


----------



## Fofer

HDTiVo said:


> They wrote a few lines of code that checks.


Why, though?

And is there some inherent danger in the procedure George Difranci outlined above?

I know adding an external eSATA drive to an already upgraded S3 didn't work with the kickstart method so I wasn't surprised when the official method didn't support it either. But I figured it was due to some technical reason and how the internal drives were prepared.


----------



## HDTiVo

Fofer said:


> is there some inherent danger


I've got a TiVo HD sitting next to me with the cover off that I've tortured in every possible way with MFS. Right now it is running without anything whatsoever plugged into the MBD eSata port. The active drive is just sitting loose on top of the original drive which is still mounted to the bracket. I've had second drives run sitting balanced on top of the back part of the frame.

The only thing I couldn't get it to do was run off a single drive plugged into the MBD eSata port instead of the main port.

I plan to test it with an external RAID (Buffalo - on order) drive connected to the eSata port connected to the MBD main port.

Danger hasn't found me yet.


----------



## bkdtv

HDTiVo said:


> They wrote a few lines of code that checks.


I don't think that is quite right.

The impression I got from spike2k5 was as follows: At bootup, the TiVo's eSATA support looks for a certain MFS partition. On unmodified Tivos, that MFS partition is always on the eSATA drive, but once you upgrade the internal drive (which is accomplished by adding new MFS partitions), that particular MFS partition is on the internal drive.

Tivo could have gone out of their way to code eSATA support so it could check for expanded Tivos with extra MFS partitions. But I don't think you can fault them for not doing that.


----------



## Fofer

bkdtv said:


> Tivo could have gone out of their way to code eSATA support so it could check for expanded Tivos with extra MFS partitions. But I don't think you can fault them for not doing that.


Nah, but if they had done that, I'd love them a whole lot more, that's for sure.


----------



## richsadams

selfee said:


> Does anyone know the technical reason that prevents TiVos with expanded internal drives from using the new external expansion out of the box?
> 
> In all other respects, the TiVo seems to treat the expanded drive just like its normal original drive, so it seems odd that the external drive won't pair with an embiggened internal drive.


*bkdtv * has it right I believe (see above), but Spike's the guy that can give you even more detail if you want it.

Try posting on his MFSLive Forum and see what he has to say.


----------



## HDTiVo

HDTiVo said:


> selfee said:
> 
> 
> 
> the technical reason that prevents TiVos
> 
> 
> 
> They wrote a few lines of code that checks.
Click to expand...




bkdtv said:


> I don't think that is quite right.
> 
> The impression I got from spike2k5 was as follows: At bootup, the TiVo's eSATA support looks for a certain MFS partition. On unmodified Tivos, that MFS partition is always on the eSATA drive, but once you upgrade the internal drive (which is accomplished by adding new MFS partitions), that particular MFS partition is on the internal drive.
> 
> Tivo could have gone out of their way to code eSATA support so it could check for expanded Tivos with extra MFS partitions. But I don't think you can fault them for not doing that.


TiVo didn't write a few lines of code that checks.


----------



## jiehl

I have tried two drives in my external enclosure and neither worked. Each one was found but instead of saying they were unsupported my TIVOHD came back with a "Can not use drive" message. 

Has anyone ran into this? Is there a workaround? 

Drives Tested: 
Hitachi Deskstart 500GB
WD Caviar RE2 400GB


----------



## Joybob

jiehl said:


> I have tried two drives in my external enclosure and neither worked. Each one was found but instead of saying they were unsupported my TIVOHD came back with a "Can not use drive" message.
> 
> Has anyone ran into this? Is there a workaround?
> 
> Drives Tested:
> Hitachi Deskstart 500GB
> WD Caviar RE2 400GB


It has to be the official Tivo drive. Sorry bro.


----------



## jiehl

Joybob said:


> It has to be the official Tivo drive. Sorry bro.


I have read that it will warn you that your drive is not supported in some cases. What is the difference?


----------



## Fofer

jiehl said:


> I have read that it will warn you that your drive is not supported in some cases. What is the difference?


It's an issue about support and quality control. More info here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5624966&&#post5624966


----------



## fred2

The difference is that Tivo designed the S3 and the TivoHD differently (or they programmed them differently). So the S3 will take a UNofficial drive after flashing the warning message while the HD version will NOT use an UNofficial drive. (I am not versed enough to know if there is a techie workaround for the HD or not - I have an S3, luckily)


----------



## jiehl

Does anyone have any insight as to when and "if" they will qualify other drives? Or is it safe to assume Tivo will continue to monitor this and upsell drives on their own?


----------



## Fofer

I think it's safe to assume that TiVo will continue to monitor and upsell. IMHO.


----------



## mappler

No crow eating needed.. I was hoping for a cheaper solution! I'm undecided on how to proceed. I think my plan for now is to just wait and see what shakes out. I'm undecided on how much hard drive space I want to pay for. On a long ago previous DirecTiVo I had ~ 120 hrs of record time (standard def of course) and I really liked that. 120 hours seemed like an awful lot to me and I liked being able to keep 10-15 movies on there plus my normal network show content. Looks like 500gb + 160gb internal will give ~80hrs of HD record time. I'm not sure if +$100 for 30 more hours equates to an additional $100 of enjoyment.

(I have no issue with non-supported expansion...but if I do end up deciding to buy in at the "500gb" level, I'll probably go with the "official" solution just because it saves me time...)

-Matt



mute said:


> Ok Ok, time for me to eat crow. I got my drive for $260 shipped (saveateagle.com iirc). I don't know why I thought my total out the door cost was so low. I think I was trying to minimize my loss subconsciously or something.
> 
> So as mentioned it's 50% more for 50% more. That's still a better deal in my mind considering you can't daisy chain drives, and there's no way to divorce/upgrade without losing your shows.
> 
> I still think that a more expensive/larger drive would have been nice. What about those "enthusiasts" that are willing to pay more for the series 3 tivos? They are still roped into the 500gb drive if they care about their warranty.
> 
> At this point I'm not sure which route I will take. I am likely to replace my A drive w/ the 750gb, and shelf the enclosure for some other project, or until I run out of space with a 750gb A drive, and pick up another drive for the MX-1.
> 
> Seems like if I am going to void my warranty either way, I'd be better off losing 20 hours of HD and keeping the stock drive as a backup than I am marrying it to an external drive.


----------



## bkdtv

jiehl said:


> I have read that it will warn you that your drive is not supported in some cases. What is the difference?


That is for the Series3, not the TivoHD. See the first post of this thread.

The TivoHD and Series3 are two different products.


----------



## gwsat

Does anybody have any information as to when TiVo will bless a 750 Gig or 1 Tb eSATA solution similar to the Western Digital 500 Gig eSATA package they have already blessed?

I am anxious to add an eSATA drive to my S3 but I dont want to limit myself to 500 Gig and am unwilling to buy a drive, an enclosure, and an eSATA II cable from three different manufacturers, which TiVo wont support.


----------



## richsadams

gwsat said:


> Does anybody have any information as to when TiVo will bless a 750 Gig or 1 Tb eSATA solution similar to the Western Digital 500 Gig eSATA package they have already blessed?
> 
> I am anxious to add an eSATA drive to my S3 but I dont want to limit myself to 500 Gig and am unwilling to buy a drive, an enclosure, and an eSATA II cable from three different manufacturers, which TiVo wont support.


I wouldn't hold my breath. The odds are that Spike or someone else here will find a work around sooner.

HDTiVo made some pretty good points about "support" on this post.

BTW, there are a number of other "pre-packaged" P&P eSATA drives that you can use with your S3 if you're not in the mood to build one yourself (which is very, very easy IMHO).


----------



## bkdtv

gwsat said:


> Does anybody have any information as to when TiVo will bless a 750 Gig or 1 Tb eSATA solution similar to the Western Digital 500 Gig eSATA package they have already blessed?.


It doesn't look good. I asked a press spokesman at Western Digital and they said no 1Tb DVR Expander was planned for this year.

They said we should see something along those lines by this time next year, but they would not be any more specific than that.


----------



## keenanSR

gwsat said:


> Does anybody have any information as to when TiVo will bless a 750 Gig or 1 Tb eSATA solution similar to the Western Digital 500 Gig eSATA package they have already blessed?
> 
> I am anxious to add an eSATA drive to my S3 but I dont want to limit myself to 500 Gig and am unwilling to buy a drive, an enclosure, and an eSATA II cable from three different manufacturers, which TiVo wont support.


I think the risk of using one of the already tried and tested by this community solutions is next to nil. There's always a chance something will go wrong, but that chance versus the increased space is more than a fair tradeof in my opinion. I've been using a 1TB Hitachi in a Antec enclosure for months now and have not had a single issue.


----------



## HDTiVo

keenanSR said:


> I think the risk of using one of the already tried and tested by this community solutions is next to nil.


Personally I feel better with certain non-WD products.


----------



## nexus99

keenanSR said:


> I think the risk of using one of the already tried and tested by this community solutions is next to nil. There's always a chance something will go wrong, but that chance versus the increased space is more than a fair tradeof in my opinion. I've been using a 1TB Hitachi in a Antec enclosure for months now and have not had a single issue.


THis is probably the solution I am giong to go with as well. Anyone know of a good price on the Hitachi drive?


----------



## lrhorer

AZrob said:


> So does that mean that after all is said and done, the combination of Tivo and expansion drive is as loud as having 2 Tivos? My wife is very sensitive to that disk-rumbling sound.


Speaking specifically to the AnteK MX-1, I find the platter noise undetectable, although if it is close to the individual in an otherwise quiet room, it might be detectable. It has sound dampening feet to reduce transmission of vibrations to the surface on which it sits, but if the shelf on which it (or the TiVo) rests is acting as a sounding board, try sitting the unit on a cloth. Otherwise, the only noise I can ordinarily hear from the Seagate Barracuda (reportedly a fairly noisy drive) in the Antek housing is seek noise. The unit only does much in the way of significantly long seeks if one is accessing the database a lot by looking up titles, wishlists, etc. At six feet, I am unable to detect any noise at all coming from the Antek MX-1 housing whihc contains the Hitachi 1T drive.

Speaking in general, hearing is not linear, so it takes much more than twice the amount of noise for something to sound twice as loud. In fact, a psychoacoustic doubling of the sound level requires ten times the energy (or in this case ten times the number of sources or ten TiVos) to sound twice as loud. Directionality aside, most people cannot tell the difference between a single souce of sound and two identical sound sources. Of course in your case, the external drive may not make any more noise than the TiVo, but it does make a different noise, so the result won't be noticably louder but it may be qualitatively different.


----------



## lrhorer

keenanSR said:


> I think the risk of using one of the already tried and tested by this community solutions is next to nil. There's always a chance something will go wrong, but that chance versus the increased space is more than a fair tradeof in my opinion. I've been using a 1TB Hitachi in a Antec enclosure for months now and have not had a single issue.


I second that. One of my Series III TiVos has 2 of the Hitachi 1TB drives, 1 ineternal and 1 e-SATA. Outside of some minor issues caused by a flaky e-SATA cable, the duet has been functioning flawlessly since June. 

My only complaints are that even 2TB is too small for my needs, and the fact I wish TiVo would allow the units to employ a smaller font in 1080i resolution so I coud have more titles on the screen at once. It takes forever to scroll through the titles with the relative handful currently supported by the TiVo on the screen.


----------



## gwsat

Thanks to all for your feedback concerning whether TiVo is likely to bless a 750 Gig or 1 Tb eSATA solution for the S3 in the near future. My hesitance to buy different brands of hard drive, enclosure, and cable does not stem from any fear that it wouldnt work. Thanks to bkdtvs wonderful FAQ, I am confident that one of the Seagate DB35 drives, an Antec enclosure, and an SIIG cable would work well with my S3. But I am a cheapskate, so it looks as if I would need to use multiple vendors to get the absolute best price. Another negative is that the 1 Tb Seagate DB 35, although its been announced, is apparently not going to be shipping until after the first of the year.

Can somebody make a recommendation as to where I might buy from a single vendor, at a reasonable price, an acceptable 1 Tb drive, an Antec Mx-1 enclosure, and an SIIG CB-SA0111-S1 cable? It appears that even Amazon cant fill the bill right now. Thanks again!


----------



## supie

I just bought the WD WD10EACS from FuturePowerPC.com for $291 which includes shipping and tax (exept for NYC) So this less that the recent BB price of $280 plus tax.

I also found the SIIG Sata cable at Buy.com for $8.99 plus tax and shipping. I bought the Antec MX1 from Circuit City for $39.99. Yes I know it 3 different vendors but the best prices today.


----------



## fred2

keenanSR said:


> I think the risk of using one of the already tried and tested by this community solutions is next to nil. There's always a chance something will go wrong, but that chance versus the increased space is more than a fair tradeof in my opinion. I've been using a 1TB Hitachi in a Antec enclosure for months now and have not had a single issue.


I will also affirm that. With Season Premiers, it is hard to capture it all on smaller storage units. NOWPLAYINGLIST shows my space is filled and older stuff is 'evaporating' so I guess I did/do need the space.

I went with the Seagate Free Agent Pro (FAP) 750gig and after the initial "cable" issue, I've not had any problems. Including moving the entire setup from an outside shelf to an enclosed armoire across the room and pulling wires under a floor. Powered off the Tivo, powered off the FAP, moved stuff, powered on the fap, then the tivo and all my stuff was still there. Been running fine for months now.


----------



## nexus99

supie said:


> I just bought the WD WD10EACS from FuturePowerPC.com for $291 which includes shipping and tax (exept for NYC) So this less that the recent BB price of $280 plus tax.
> 
> I also found the SIIG Sata cable at Buy.com for $8.99 plus tax and shipping. I bought the Antec MX1 from Circuit City for $39.99. Yes I know it 3 different vendors but the best prices today.


I am checking CC.com and the Antec is 59 bucks. Is there a special link or code maybe to get the 39 deal? I am probably going to go with the system you outlined above.

Anyone see any better prices on a good 1 TB drive?


----------



## jrock

I have a question about what the best solution would be for my situation.

I purchased the S3 when it first came out and upgraded the internal drive to 500 GB. I would like to add some more space but now I can't decide what would be the best and cheapest way to do it. Here are my options.

1) Buy the $199 supported ESATA My DVR Expander and use WinMFS to add it.
2) Get an MX-1 and some other Drive and Use WinMFS to add it.
3) Replace the original Drive in the S3 then either do 1 or 2 without having to use WinMFS.

I have searched around for the cheapest prices and I can get the MX-1 for $50 then the ESATA cable is $10 and the cheapest 750 GB DVR certified drive I can find is over $200. Even buying a certified 500 GB drive and the MX-1 and Cable separately seems to be a little over $200 so am I correct that the $199 drive TiVo is now selling is the cheapest way to add 500 GB?

If anyone else has any place to get one of the supported drives for really cheap please post a link. Thanks.

-Joe

P.S. Another option I have thought of is to get one of the really cheap large 1gb storage drives for the PC and use TiVo Desktop to transfer the shows to the computer and store shows on the computer then delete them on the S3 and restore them later on when I am ready to watch them. Like for shows that I don't have time to watch now but plan to watch later during breaks or between seasons. What are peoples thoughts on that?


----------



## Joybob

jrock said:


> I have a question about what the best solution would be for my situation.
> 
> I purchased the S3 when it first came out and upgraded the internal drive to 500 GB. I would like to add some more space but now I can't decide what would be the best and cheapest way to do it. Here are my options.
> 
> 1) Buy the $199 supported ESATA My DVR Expander and use WinMFS to add it.
> 2) Get an MX-1 and some other Drive and Use WinMFS to add it.
> 3) Replace the original Drive in the S3 then either do 1 or 2 without having to use WinMFS.
> 
> I have searched around for the cheapest prices and I can get the MX-1 for $50 then the ESATA cable is $10 and the cheapest 750 GB DVR certified drive I can find is over $200. Even buying a certified 500 GB drive and the MX-1 and Cable separately seems to be a little over $200 so am I correct that the $199 drive TiVo is now selling is the cheapest way to add 500 GB?
> 
> If anyone else has any place to get one of the supported drives for really cheap please post a link. Thanks.
> 
> -Joe
> 
> P.S. Another option I have thought of is to get one of the really cheap large 1gb storage drives for the PC and use TiVo Desktop to transfer the shows to the computer and store shows on the computer then delete them on the S3 and restore them later on when I am ready to watch them. Like for shows that I don't have time to watch now but plan to watch later during breaks or between seasons. What are peoples thoughts on that?


If someone could write a 3rd party app to transfer shows to a PC then delete them off the S3 then we could just use multi-terabyte RAID solutions instead of fooling with external drives.


----------



## alee

bkdtv said:


> [*] *If I want to replace my current eSATA drive, can I just remove it and then "marry" it to another?*
> 
> Yes, you can replace the eSATA drive on your Series3 as much as you want, but you'll _permanently_ lose all existing recordings on every drive you remove.


So let's say I have an internal 750GB upgraded drive in my S3, and I do an mfsadd to expand to an eSATA drive.

Let's say that eSATA drive dies.

1. Does my TiVo still work, or does it stop working?

2. Can I just repeat the mfsadd command on a new eSATA drive, or is there some other divorce/marry routine that needs to happen?

-Al


----------



## richsadams

jrock said:


> I have a question about what the best solution would be for my situation.
> 
> Another option I have thought of is to get one of the really cheap large 1gb storage drives for the PC and use TiVo Desktop to transfer the shows to the computer and store shows on the computer then delete them on the S3 and restore them later on when I am ready to watch them. Like for shows that I don't have time to watch now but plan to watch later during breaks or between seasons. What are peoples thoughts on that?


The last option would be my recommendation...although you may not be able to transfer everything as some shows may be flagged.


----------



## richsadams

alee said:


> So let's say I have an internal 750GB upgraded drive in my S3, and I do an mfsadd to expand to an eSATA drive.
> 
> Let's say that eSATA drive dies.
> 
> 1. Does my TiVo still work, or does it stop working?
> 
> 2. Can I just repeat the mfsadd command on a new eSATA drive, or is there some other divorce/marry routine that needs to happen?
> 
> -Al


1. TiVo will still work _after _ you divorce the expansion drive. If the drive dies it will stop TiVo from recording anything further until you divorce the failed drive. Unfortunately you will lose all of the recordings made from the point the eSATA drive was added. (This is the same whether P&P or mfsADD is used.)

When TiVo can no longer access the eSATA drive due to power failure, drive failure or cable disconnect the following screen will be displayed:










TiVo will not function until you act on this screen.

If you divorce an eSATA drive the following screen will be displayed:










After system reconfiguration TiVo will reboot using the internal/"A" drive alone.

2. Yes, you will be able to add a new eSATA drive. See Section III, #10 on the first post on this thread.


----------



## opus472

fred2 said:


> The difference is that Tivo designed the S3 and the TivoHD differently (or they programmed them differently). So the S3 will take a UNofficial drive after flashing the warning message while the HD version will NOT use an UNofficial drive. (I am not versed enough to know if there is a techie workaround for the HD or not - I have an S3, luckily)


Then there must be more substantive differences between the two than generally acknowledged. I thought the only official distinctions were the front panel, remote, HD size and THX cert, relatively trivial stuff....


----------



## richsadams

opus472 said:


> Then there must be more substantive differences between the two than generally acknowledged. I thought the only official distinctions were the front panel, remote, HD size and THX cert, relatively trivial stuff....


See this post regarding TiVo's reasoning behind only allowing the "approved device" to work with TiVo HD's.

Check out this thread for more details about TiVo HD's. (Slightly dated re;eSATA)

Check out this post for spec comparisons.


----------



## 1283

richsadams said:


> 1. TiVo will still work _after _ you divorce the expansion drive.


Can TiVo even divorce a MFSADDed drive?


----------



## jrock

richsadams said:


> The last option would be my recommendation...although you may not be able to transfer everything as some shows may be flagged.


Hmm now there is another problem with that idea, I transferred over 100 GB's of episodes of Ugly Betty, American Inventor, Big Shots, and Men in Trees and all went fine over the last few days. Today I tried transferring Cane, Big Bang Theory, and Moonlight but they all stop after a few MB of transfer. I rebooted both the PC and TiVo, deleted the files, and tried again but they all stop at the same point they did before. I retried transferring a file I already transferred to make sure something didn't break and it works with the shows I already transferred. So it seems to be having troubles with certain shows. I'm not sure why.

-Joe


----------



## jrock

Wonder how good this is? 

Cavalry 750GB - USB 2.0 & eSATA Dual Interface 7200RPM External Hard Drive Kit - CAXM37750

It's only $179.99 at buy.com and you can use the same coupons as the above post. It only has a 1 year warranty though.

-Joe


----------



## Joybob

jrock said:


> Wonder how good this is?
> 
> Cavalry 750GB - USB 2.0 & eSATA Dual Interface 7200RPM External Hard Drive Kit - CAXM37750
> 
> It's only $179.99 at buy.com and you can use the same coupons as the above post. It only has a 1 year warranty though.
> 
> -Joe


Doesn't have a fan, but for $179.99 it seems good.

Risky IMO.


----------



## richsadams

jrock said:


> Wonder how good this is?
> 
> Cavalry 750GB - USB 2.0 & eSATA Dual Interface 7200RPM External Hard Drive Kit - CAXM37750
> 
> It's only $179.99 at buy.com and you can use the same coupons as the above post. It only has a 1 year warranty though.
> 
> -Joe


Per the old eSATA expansion FAQ & Troubleshooting post, Cavalry drives displayed almost immediate problems when used with TiVo. See #36. Although the one youve listed is a different model, IIRC there were other Cavalry drives that had problems as well.


----------



## richsadams

c3 said:


> Can TiVo even divorce a MFSADDed drive?


AFAIK there's no reason it wouldn't, but that's a good question...one that Spike could probably give a definitive answer to.


----------



## Joybob

richsadams said:


> Per the old eSATA expansion FAQ & Troubleshooting post, Cavalry drives displayed almost immediate problems when used with TiVo. See #36. Although the one youve listed is a different model, IIRC there were other Cavalry drives that had problems as well.


That was back when we were still Kickstarting drives. I'm sure with P&P it will work.


----------



## 1283

Joybob said:


> Doesn't have a fan, but for $179.99 it seems good.


How would you know if it does or does not have a fan?

It does have a fan, but it's pretty small. I took the the drive out (WD7500AAKS with 3-year warranty) and use the enclosure as a USB-SATA adapter.


----------



## richsadams

Joybob said:


> That was back when we were still Kickstarting drives. I'm sure with P&P it will work.


TiVos expansion architecture (both hardware and software) is not relevant. It's the quality and operation of the drive/enclosure that's in question.

After more than six months of history, Cavalry drives (like many others) did not stand up to short and/or long-term compatibility and performance requirements when used with TiVo S3s.


----------



## richsadams

jrock said:


> Hmm now there is another problem with that idea, I transferred over 100 GB's of episodes of Ugly Betty, American Inventor, Big Shots, and Men in Trees and all went fine over the last few days. Today I tried transferring Cane, Big Bang Theory, and Moonlight but they all stop after a few MB of transfer. I rebooted both the PC and TiVo, deleted the files, and tried again but they all stop at the same point they did before. I retried transferring a file I already transferred to make sure something didn't break and it works with the shows I already transferred. So it seems to be having troubles with certain shows. I'm not sure why.
> 
> -Joe


That's an ongoing discussion over on the TTG & MRV thread. I've been keeping up, but it's probably a long slog if you're just jumping in. The posts on the last couple of pages (particularly the last page) seem to be narrowing things like you're seeing down and possible resolutions though.

Best of luck! :up:


----------



## HDTiVo

c3 said:


> Can TiVo even divorce a MFSADDed drive?


Yes.


----------



## vstone

c3 said:


> How would you know if it does or does not have a fan?
> 
> It does have a fan, but it's pretty small. I took the the drive out (WD7500AAKS with 3-year warranty) and use the enclosure as a USB-SATA adapter.


The drive was probably sold OEM to Calvary and doesn't necessarily have the 3 year wrranty an OTC unit would. Recommend you check the serial # out at westerndigital.com.


----------



## jlib

Joybob said:


> I was going to go with the SIIG cable too but it didn't look shielded...


All eSATA cables are shielded (per specification). Some internal SATA cables are shielded (beyond specification).


----------



## 1283

vstone said:


> The drive was probably sold OEM to Calvary and doesn't necessarily have the 3 year wrranty an OTC unit would. Recommend you check the serial # out at westerndigital.com.


I already confirmed it, and so did another member who also bought it.


----------



## thxman

Anyone know of a way to get 9.2 on my S3 quicker?? I used the priority request form last Thursday and even called Tivo today but they were no help. He suggested I restart/reconnect but that did nothing. I'm stuck on 9.1 and at this point not sure if I should use kickstart or just wait since it's now officially supporting my newly purchased WD My DVR (being a bit new to all this; coming from years of using DirecTivo machines). 

Anybody got a suggestion for me?  

Thanks! 
Kevin


----------



## richsadams

thxman said:


> Anyone know of a way to get 9.2 on my S3 quicker?? I used the priority request form last Thursday and even called Tivo today but they were no help. He suggested I restart/reconnect but that did nothing. I'm stuck on 9.1 and at this point not sure if I should use kickstart or just wait since it's now officially supporting my newly purchased WD My DVR (being a bit new to all this; coming from years of using DirecTivo machines).
> 
> Anybody got a suggestion for me?
> 
> Thanks!
> Kevin


They say allow up to seven days on the TiVo website but if you've signed up on the priority list it usually only takes about two or three days. Keep in mind they do not download software Sat. or Sun., so if you signed up last Thursday you may receive it in the next day or two.

You can force a connection by going to TiVo Central > Messages and settings > Settings > Phone and network > Connect to the TiVo service now. Once the download has finished and loaded look at the "Last Successful" line on that screen or in System Information and if it says "Pending restart" instead of a date your new software will automatically install at 2 a.m. your time. Or you can reboot TiVo and it will install the upgrade immediately.


----------



## thxman

Thanks Rich! Guess I'll have to be patient a little longer.

Do you agree with my thought process of waiting instead of kickstart at this point?

Kevin


----------



## rrg

I'm having trouble finding any reasonable source for the Hitachi Cinemastar 1TB drive named in the list of recommended drives in the FAQ. The Deskstar models, on the other hand, are not hard to find at all.

If I'm going to install the drive in an Antec MX-1 enclosure, is it likely to matter?

I believe I read a reliably-sourced claim on a TCF thread (somewhere, but I can't locate it) that the specs were identical and that it didn't really matter.

But I'm not sure and I'm being cautious.


----------



## Fofer

thxman said:


> Thanks Rich! Guess I'll have to be patient a little longer.
> 
> Do you agree with my thought process of waiting instead of kickstart at this point?
> 
> Kevin


Yes, wait. It's only a matter of days, you might as well wait. IMHO.


----------



## JKay

*The TiVoHD supports a maximum of 16 exabytes* I saw this in the opening FAQ in item #13; is this true? That would be like being able to record 2,096 million one hour HD TV shows (if my shakey math is correct).

With both tuners going 24/7 you could record about 17,520 one hours shows per years and the Sun would burn out before you could fill up 16 exabytes. You would never have to delete a show ever again.


----------



## richsadams

thxman said:


> Thanks Rich! Guess I'll have to be patient a little longer.
> 
> Do you agree with my thought process of waiting instead of kickstart at this point?
> 
> Kevin


You can probably go either way. We added ours via KS over six months ago. It's been flawless through three upgrades and is now recognized on TiVo's System Info screen. Up to you...whatever you're more comfortable with. Or as fofer mentioned, it'll probably be only a day or two before you can add it via P&P. It wouldn't make any difference one way or another IMHO, but you should be comfy with your choice.


----------



## Graymalkin

JKay said:


> *The TiVoHD supports a maximum of 16 exabytes* I saw this in the opening FAQ in item #13; is this true? That would be like being able to record 2,096 million one hour HD TV shows (if my shakey math is correct).
> 
> With both tuners going 24/7 you could record about 17,520 one hours shows per years and the Sun would burn out before you could fill up 16 exabytes. You would never have to delete a show ever again.


Oh, I think they'll have 3-D holographic-definition TV in another 30 years. Those probably will run 10TB per hour, and 16 exabytes won't be enough.


----------



## andrews777

I had to force a connection to Tivo on the Network choice under settings. That is what upgraded me. I think I then did a restart.

Have you done the forced network connection?

Brad


----------



## thxman

Thanks for the feedback guys; really appreciate it! :up:


----------



## CharlesH

The onscreen guide for installing the approved My DVR Expander drive says to just hook up the eSata cable, power on the drive, and reboot.

The printed info with the Expander drive says to unplug the TiVo, hook up the eSata cable, power on the drive, and then plug in the TiVo.

So is it necessary to power down the TiVo (S3, in my case) or not?


----------



## richsadams

CharlesH said:


> The onscreen guide for installing the approved My DVR Expander drive says to just hook up the eSata cable, power on the drive, and reboot.
> 
> The printed info with the Expander drive says to unplug the TiVo, hook up the eSata cable, power on the drive, and then plug in the TiVo.
> 
> So is it necessary to power down the TiVo (S3, in my case) or not?


Whadya mean the left hand doesn't know what the right hand's doing?!

IIRC TiVo's web site instructions say to unplug TiVo before connecting or disconnecting an eSATA drive.

I'd say you're safe either way. Plug and pray should work without powering TiVo off, but it will surely work if you do...that's the way it's been done for quite a few months now.

Good stuff! Either way, enjoy the new real estate!


----------



## rbf2000

I just successfully installed a seagate db35 750GB drive with the Antex MX-1 via eSATA using the method posted in the first post. Aside from getting the drive out of the TiVo HD it was a piece of cake.


119 Hours of HD 1127 Hours of SD, I thought you might want to update the list of hard drive sizes/recording time.


----------



## jazzsax

I tried to add my new official Tivo expander HD to my already upgraded 500GB TivoHD, and though it recognized the drive and asked me to use it and restarted, it did not actually pick up the extra space. It still said I had 63 hours. I had to pull the drive and run WinMFS on them to add the drive. I wasn't really expecting it to work out of the box, but was hoping.


----------



## dsm363

I tried to add my TiVo Expander to my S3 using the instructions in the box. After 2 attempts, then a reboot with the drive attached, it is not recognizing the drive. Maybe a bad cable? This kind of bites.


----------



## bkdtv

dsm363 said:


> I tried to add my TiVo Expander to my S3 using the instructions in the box. After 2 attempts, then a reboot with the drive attached, it is not recognizing the drive. Maybe a bad cable? This kind of bites.


I assume you have a stock Tivo? And not an upgraded unit? As per the FAQ, the "plug and play" eSATA expansion does not work on upgraded TiVos.

I don't know what instructions are included with the drive, but the following instructions are correct and verified to work:



> *How do I to add an eSATA drive to the TiVo?*
> 
> 
> Disconnect power to the TiVo.
> 
> Connect the eSATA drive to your TiVo with the eSATA cable. Confirm that the eSATA cable is firmly inserted on both the TiVo and your eSATA drive.
> 
> Connect the power to your eSATA drive. Then reconnect power to your TiVo.
> 
> Enable the eSATA drive through the Settings -> Remote, CableCARD, and Devices -> External Storage menu.


If the eSATA cable is loose on either end, it will not work. Make sure you don't accidentally unplug the eSATA cable when you reconnect power to the TiVo. [I've done that.]


----------



## dsm363

Sorry, yes my S3 TiVo is a stock TiVo and those are the steps I followed. The cables seem firmly connected and I have software version 9.2J (noticed people are talking about having 9.2 and not 9.2J). I'll keep working on it but the drive is powered on and seems to be connected properly but the S3 does not recognize it. Thanks for the advice, I'll have to dig a little deeper. I guess it's possible the drive is bad.


----------



## bkdtv

dsm363 said:


> Sorry, yes my S3 TiVo is a stock TiVo and those are the steps I followed. The cables seem firmly connected and I have software version 9.2J (noticed people are talking about having 9.2 and not 9.2J). I'll keep working on it but the drive is powered on and seems to be connected properly but the S3 does not recognize it. Thanks for the advice, I'll have to dig a little deeper. I guess it's possible the drive is bad.


The drive could be bad.

I assume you see a light glow on the front which confirms that it has power.


----------



## dsm363

bkdtv said:


> The drive could be bad.
> 
> I assume you see a light glow on the front which confirms that it has power.


Yeah, there is a light on the drive to confirm power. Doesn't really seem to make much noise when it powers on too. Guess I'll give TiVo a call.


----------



## 1283

rrg said:


> I'm having trouble finding any reasonable source for the Hitachi Cinemastar 1TB drive named in the list of recommended drives in the FAQ. The Deskstar models, on the other hand, are not hard to find at all.


I would recommend the WD10EACS instead. Same 3-year warranty, better RMA process, cooler, quieter, and lower power.


----------



## dsm363

Just an update: Looks like my drive is DOA. I've spent over 2 hours on the phone so far. I bought the My DVR Expander from TiVo.com but called Western Digital first per TiVo's instructions. They said this is an OEM drive and to call TiVo. After 20 min on hold and over 30 minutes of trouble shooting and being put on hold multiple times, I was told 'this is a WD drive, we can't accept a return. You have to talk to WD'. I called WD back and am told 'this is an OEM drive'. The confusion about what TiVo even was led me to ask what country they are based out of. Looks like WD has outsourced their tech line to India so now I'm waiting for a call from a manager since 'they are all busy on another line at the moment'. Very frustrating. I don't see how TiVo call sell a product (even if it isn't their product) then won't accept a exchange for a DOA product.


----------



## fred2

dsm363 said:


> Yeah, there is a light on the drive to confirm power. Doesn't really seem to make much noise when it powers on too. Guess I'll give TiVo a call.


Does the drive have alternative connections, like usb or firewire? Can you test it on a computer?


----------



## dsm363

fred2 said:


> Does the drive have alternative connections, like usb or firewire? Can you test it on a computer?


It only has a eSATA port on it so I have no way to test it unfortunately.


----------



## dsm363

Well, saga complete. TiVo.com is finally accepting the drive back after 4 hours on the phone. What an ordeal. Sorry to tie up this thread with this.
According to a manager at TiVo: For defective drives, WD is supposed to handle that but TiVo can help with setup and troubleshooting.


----------



## cgfrendly

Last weekend I ordered one from WD online store; it didn't ship and so I called today to find out what happened. I was told the product was discontinued and no longer available but that replacement design would be released shortly.

Does this make sense to anyone?
Now I see that TIVO site has it as available, it was 'backordered' the when I checked a while back.

Anybody know what is going on?


----------



## dsm363

cgfrendly said:


> Last weekend I ordered one from WD online store; it didn't ship and so I called today to find out what happened. I was told the product was discontinued and no longer available but that replacement design would be released shortly.
> 
> Does this make sense to anyone?
> Now I see that TIVO site has it as available, it was 'backordered' the when I checked a while back.
> 
> Anybody know what is going on?


Really? I just ordered my replacement drive from TiVo (since I couldn't even figure out where the 'add to cart' button on the WD store was). Wonder what the deal is.


----------



## andrews777

dsm363 said:


> Really? I just ordered my replacement drive from TiVo (since I couldn't even figure out where the 'add to cart' button on the WD store was). Wonder what the deal is.


They removed the "add to cart" button on that page. It was there a few days before the "official" announcement from Tivo. I suspect Tivo got all their stock.

Brad


----------



## andrews777

dsm363 said:


> Well, saga complete. TiVo.com is finally accepting the drive back after 4 hours on the phone. What an ordeal. Sorry to tie up this thread with this.
> According to a manager at TiVo: For defective drives, WD is supposed to handle that but TiVo can help with setup and troubleshooting.


And this is the reason Tivo had to limit it only to a supported drive! This is a great level of support, NOT!

Brad


----------



## toolkit

Sorry if this has already been addressed. I tried several searches and couldn't find anything related....

If I add an external drive to increase the storage on my (stock) TiVo S3, there will surely be a lot more programs in the "Now Playing" list. Will that cause a noticable slow-down in UI speed?

A few years ago when I significantly increased the storage in my old DirecTiVo, the speed was impacted a bit - but it was acceptable.

I like the current speed of my S3 and to be honest, 250GB isn't *that* limiting. But more space would be nice, as long as the UI doesn't get impacted too much.

Thanks in advance!!


----------



## bkdtv

toolkit said:


> Sorry if this has already been addressed. I tried several searches and couldn't find anything related....
> 
> If I add an external drive to increase the storage on my (stock) TiVo S3, there will surely be a lot more programs in the "Now Playing" list. Will that cause a noticable slow-down in UI speed?


I'm sure at some point there might be a slowdown with the Now Playing list.

I can say there is no significant slowdown with ~150 recordings.


----------



## sirius

I have had my e-sata drive up and running now for a couple of months. Is there any benefit for me download the latest (9.2) software?

Thank you in advance


----------



## jlib

rrg said:


> I'm having trouble finding any reasonable source for the Hitachi Cinemastar 1TB drive named in the list of recommended drives in the FAQ. The Deskstar models, on the other hand, are not hard to find at all...
> 
> I believe I read a reliably-sourced claim on a TCF thread (somewhere, but I can't locate it) that the specs were identical and that it didn't really matter.


Yes, you are correct. You can manually detune the head seek acoustics on the Deskstar using Hitachi Feature Tool and as far as the TiVo is concerned it is functionally equivalent to the Cinemastar. I also agree with C3 that the WD 1TB "Green" drive is currently the most ideal TiVo drive from a specification standpoint. But if you can get a significantly better price on the Deskstar it is also an acceptable and reliable TiVo upgrade drive.


----------



## gwsat

Graymalkin said:


> Oh, I think they'll have 3-D holographic-definition TV in another 30 years. Those probably will run 10TB per hour, and 16 exabytes won't be enough.


Yep, one of the first rules I learned about computers when I got involved with them in the mid 80s was, No CPU is ever fast enough and no hard drive is ever big enough. It appears that its just as true now as it was then.


----------



## richsadams

toolkit said:


> Sorry if this has already been addressed. I tried several searches and couldn't find anything related....
> 
> If I add an external drive to increase the storage on my (stock) TiVo S3, there will surely be a lot more programs in the "Now Playing" list. Will that cause a noticable slow-down in UI speed?
> 
> A few years ago when I significantly increased the storage in my old DirecTiVo, the speed was impacted a bit - but it was acceptable.
> 
> I like the current speed of my S3 and to be honest, 250GB isn't *that* limiting. But more space would be nice, as long as the UI doesn't get impacted too much.
> 
> Thanks in advance!!


We have over 150 recordings w/750GB of space and the UI is as fast as ever on our S3.


----------



## richsadams

sirius said:


> I have had my e-sata drive up and running now for a couple of months. Is there any benefit for me download the latest (9.2) software?
> 
> Thank you in advance


As long as everything is working well there's no need to rush things. Right now they are only delivering v9.2.j which is a trial version of the latest software. Historically final versions have had very little if any noticeable differences. So if all is well, waiting is fine.

Your eSATA drive will be recognized automatically once you receive the upgrade...nothing to do on your part.


----------



## t001z

cgfrendly said:


> Last weekend I ordered one from WD online store; it didn't ship and so I called today to find out what happened. I was told the product was discontinued and no longer available but that replacement design would be released shortly.
> 
> Does this make sense to anyone?
> Now I see that TIVO site has it as available, it was 'backordered' the when I checked a while back.
> 
> Anybody know what is going on?


I also just came here to report a similar issue with the extender that that I purchased last Wednesday. When I placed the order, it said it was IN STOCK and I went through the purchase process and everything was fine. Today, I had not received anything so I went to track it and it said it was backordered.

I called Western Digital to find out what was going on and the person told me that their order screen shows that it is backordered and that means they "don't know whether they will be getting more in stock or if they are discontinued". I was then told that my order was going to be cancelled because they did not know if they would be getting these back in stock EVER. After pressing a little further, I was transfered to a supervisor and he told me that they "are working on a new model" but would not go any further.

If you ordered one from a place that shows it as backordered or out of stock, don't expect to ever receive it. WD shows it as Out of Stock, Best Buy shows it Backordered and TiVo doesn't show availability.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-rant follows=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- :down: :down: 
With this being my 5th TiVo and being a happy TiVo customer for the last 6 years, this is the first time I am truly disappointed with the company. I am not blaming them for WD running out of stock or discontinuing the model so quickly, but I am p.o.'ed about this crap of only allowing "supported" drives. I do not like WD as a company and have never had good luck with their products, to be told the only way you can use a new feature is to buy this particular drive shows they are following a business model that essentially shows they are selling out to a single vendor for a business arrangement which can only involve a kickback to them.

Now we cannot get the only drive that is supported (btw, I don't care about it being supported, upgrading our hard drives has never been supported before, but we did it at our own risk) and the manufacturer is saying that it may never be available again!!

c'mon TiVo, don't cut the throats of your loyal customers, let us pay a small fee to "turn on" the eSATA port and stop this "supported drive" crap.


----------



## richsadams

t001z said:


> I also just came here to report a similar issue with the extender that that I purchased last Wednesday. When I placed the order, it said it was IN STOCK and I went through the purchase process and everything was fine. Today, I had not received anything so I went to track it and it said it was backordered.<snip>
> 
> c'mon TiVo, don't cut the throats of your loyal customers, let us pay a small fee to "turn on" the eSATA port and stop this "supported drive" crap.


Randy...you forgot [/rant]!  You didn't mention it, but I assume you're talking about adding an expansion drive to a TiVo HD? (S3's w/v9.2.j or higher are no problem of course.)

In any case, it's obvious you've been around here for a while. You mentioned "unsupported" hard drive upgrades so I'm probably not suggesting anything you haven't already considered, but being the savvy guy you are you know that you still have the ability to add an eSATA drive, basically any eSATA drive to your THD or upgrade the internal HDD, or both right? It's not a plug and pray option, but it's not very difficult if you don't mind popping the case open and doing a quick bit of wizardry with your PC. With WinMFS it's a snap.

I agree, it was dumb for them to limit the THD's to one expansion drive, (and I'd rather it be a Seagate) but I can also see it from their side and looking at the big picture can't really blame them. How they and WD have handled it is a bit appalling though...what a nightmare!

That said, here's the "Bible" of eSATA drive options for both TiVo HD's and S3's:

Official eSATA Drive Expansion: FAQ + Discussion (That's this thread - start at the beginning)

Here's the link to the original thread/instructions for adding an "unsupported" eSATA drive to a TiVo HD:

Tivo HD (TCD652160) eSATA Port is enabled now

Here's the link for upgrading a TiVo HD's hard drive:

Tivo HD Finally Upgraded

So if "their" option isn't an option...well, you still have options.


----------



## Brighton Line

I have a Maxtor Quickview Expander left over from my SA8300HD days, I connected it to my brand new Series 3 running 9.2J and it found the drive fine and I now have 67 hours of HD.

The Expander's orange light is blinking 8 times and repeats, I found a very old post that says these means I should call the "service provider" which I belive is the "cable company" since this external drive was made for Cable DVR's.

So far it is working without any issue other then the annoying blinking light which I am about to put tape over. 

Does anyone know if there is any issues with using this drive or the blinking light?

TIA


----------



## opus472

dsm363 said:


> Well, saga complete. TiVo.com is finally accepting the drive back after 4 hours on the phone.


And what do you do in the meantime, no Tivo?


----------



## richsadams

Brighton Line said:


> I have a Maxtor Quickview Expander left over from my SA8300HD days, I connected it to my brand new Series 3 running 9.2J and it found the drive fine and I now have 67 hours of HD.
> 
> The Expander's orange light is blinking 8 times and repeats, I found a very old post that says these means I should call the "service provider" which I belive is the "cable company" since this external drive was made for Cable DVR's.
> 
> So far it is working without any issue other then the annoying blinking light which I am about to put tape over.
> 
> Does anyone know if there is any issues with using this drive or the blinking light?
> 
> TIA


Weaknees actually sells the Maxtor Expander drives. You might want to contact them about it and see what they have to say...they're very friendly types.

http://www.weaknees.com/contact.php

BTW, congrats for being a pioneer with that one! :up:


----------



## thxman

Hey Rich . . . I liked your other picture better. It was a much better likeness! 

I am still without the 9.2 upgrade as I tried again this morning. I called Tivo again with no suggestions other than to fill out the priority request form again. I did but hopefully that won't put me at the back end of the Tivo queue, (it stinks back there!)


----------



## hkancyr

Got my TiVo expander hooked up on my THD. I followed the directions in the WD book and it worked. I had a blinking green light when I first plugged the TiVo back in, then I replugged it and got the solid green. 86 hours HD 810 SD, that should be sufficient. 
P.S. re: restarting the TiVo, after you mount the expander it reboots anyhow, so if you do it the approved way it restarts twice, once for the plug once for the reboot.


----------



## richsadams

thxman said:


> Hey Rich . . . I liked your other picture better. It was a much better likeness!
> 
> I am still without the 9.2 upgrade as I tried again this morning. I called Tivo again with no suggestions other than to fill out the priority request form again. I did but hopefully that won't put me at the back end of the Tivo queue, (it stinks back there!)


That's pretty strange. IIRC they only download the Priority Page info 1x/day...but it's been a week now.  Well, I guess it hasn't been 7 _business _ days...but still.

Oh, that's just a picture of my evil twin...I'm really much better looking!


----------



## thxman

Success! I'm happy to report that the additional request must have done something because I recv'd an email from Tivo stating that I had my download waiting. I installed not problems and added the WD My DVR drive without a hitch (very smooth process)! 98 hours of beautiful HD space... Life is good!! Thanks also for the tip about unplugging the S3, as the power-up detected the drive right away.

Thanks again Rich!

Kevin


----------



## richsadams

thxman said:


> Success! I'm happy to report that the additional request must have done something because I recv'd an email from Tivo stating that I had my download waiting. I installed not problems and added the WD My DVR drive without a hitch (very smooth process)! 98 hours of beautiful HD space... Life is good!! Thanks also for the tip about unplugging the S3, as the power-up detected the drive right away.
> 
> Thanks again Rich!
> 
> Kevin


Phew! About time eh? As we like to say...enjoy the new real estate!


----------



## Dave in Phoenix

> I'm having trouble finding any reasonable source for the Hitachi Cinemastar 1TB drive/QUOTE]
> 
> I have been very happy with this drive, in the Antec enclosure with SIIG cable.
> 
> Currently available at (well says I can't post link) but at priceguidenetwork.
> About $330, I paid a bit more a few months ago.
> 
> Software is now 9.1
> Shows I have 165 hrs of HD and 1561 SD


----------



## rrg

c3 said:


> I would recommend the WD10EACS instead. Same 3-year warranty, better RMA process, cooler, quieter, and lower power.


Thanks.

So you would still prefer the WD despite the fact that (according to the FAQ) it's neither "intended for DVRs" nor "certified for 24/7 use"?

Is this the "WD 1 TB Green" drive that's mentioned elsewhere in this forum?


----------



## bkdtv

rrg said:


> Is this the "WD 1 TB Green" drive that's mentioned elsewhere in this forum?


Yes.

It isn't sold as a DVR drive, but it seems to be working well for many forum members, which is why I added it to the list.


----------



## HDTiVo

I have been trying to get a TiVo HD to boot using Buffalo DriveStation Quattro connected to the eSata port. The DriveStation is the only drive and is ultimately connected to the internal SATA port on the MBD.

I've been able to use the same cabling to boot using a bare SATA drive...thus I don't think the cabling is the problem. I've also used the DriveStation on the PC (via USB-SATA adapter) to confirm its eSata port is working.

I've tried the DriveStation both in RAID 5 and JBOD modes ...

The TiVo HD only gets to the initial powering up screen, then repeats every couple minutes. There are a couple brief disk accesses during the process. No GSOD.

The DriveStation's eSATA port is a SATA 1 device and it actually uses 4 PATA drives internally. So I am wondering if the TiVo HD detects whether its drive(s) interfaces are SATA II and rejects them, and/or whether there is a speed/timing issue that trips it up.

Any ideas for getting this to work?


----------



## bkdtv

HDTiVo said:


> Any ideas for getting this to work?


As per the first post, if you want to add something other than the Western Digital My DVR Expander to the TivoHD, you'll have to marry the internal drive and eSATA drive using WinMFS.

Or are you saying that it does not work, even after you married the two with WinMFS?


----------



## richsadams

HDTiVo said:


> I have been trying to get a TiVo HD to boot using Buffalo DriveStation Quattro connected to the eSata port. The DriveStation is the only drive and is ultimately connected to the internal SATA port on the MBD.
> 
> I've been able to use the same cabling to boot using a bare SATA drive...thus I don't think the cabling is the problem. I've also used the DriveStation on the PC (via USB-SATA adapter) to confirm its eSata port is working.
> 
> I've tried the DriveStation both in RAID 5 and JBOD modes ...
> 
> The TiVo HD only gets to the initial powering up screen, then repeats every couple minutes. There are a couple brief disk accesses during the process. No GSOD.
> 
> The DriveStation's eSATA port is a SATA 1 device and it actually uses 4 PATA drives internally. So I am wondering if the TiVo HD detects whether its drive(s) interfaces are SATA II and rejects them, and/or whether there is a speed/timing issue that trips it up.
> 
> Any ideas for getting this to work?


It's probably a contamination issue...all of that blood can gum up the works when you're that far out on the edge.


----------



## HDTiVo

bkdtv said:


> As per the first post, if you want to add something other than the Western Digital My DVR Expander to the TivoHD, you'll have to marry the internal drive and eSATA drive using WinMFS.
> 
> Or are you saying that it does not work, even after you married the two with WinMFS?


Actually, I prepare the DriveStation as a single TiVo drive with WinMFS. I am plugging it into the internal SATA port on the motherboard, either directly or going through the HD's eSATA port. Connected those ways, with the same cables, bare SATA drives boot normally, but DriveStation doesn't.


----------



## bkdtv

HDTiVo said:


> Actually, I prepare the DriveStation as a single TiVo drive with WinMFS. I am plugging it into the internal SATA port on the motherboard, either directly or going through the HD's eSATA port. Connected those ways, with the same cables, bare SATA drives boot normally, but DriveStation doesn't.


Ahh, I see that now. Read your first post too quickly.

Don't know what that doesn't work. IIIRC, Spike2k5 did use a RAID to successfully expand the Tivo.


----------



## thilt

HD Tivo - Sorry I don't have any advice for your problem. Was wondering if you (or anyone else) knows whether the Drive Station Quatro would work "as is" as an expander with a stock Series3? I have had good suucess with another Buffalo product on a different DVR (Moxi) that requires a USB connection. Thanks.


----------



## 1283

rrg said:


> So you would still prefer the WD despite the fact that (according to the FAQ) it's neither "intended for DVRs" nor "certified for 24/7 use"?


Yes. The WD 1TB drive is the only 1TB drive I would use for TiVo. Those two parameters are not important at all when I shop for a drive.


----------



## jlib

WD says all their 3.5" drives are for 24/7 use and, anyway, no manufacturer _certifies_ some of their drives specifically for 24/7 use as opposed to some other drives that aren't. All modern drives are 24/7. The only thing a drive manufacturer will certify is _compatibility_ with various standards. That is true for Seagate, Hitachi, and Western Digital.

The DVR specific drives are of no benefit at all to the TiVo since it does not use any of their advanced features. Maybe a future TiVo will. Now, to be fair there is one circumstance where a DVR drive is superior to the equivalent standard drive. Seagate does not allow user modification of the head seek acoustics on their drives. Their DB35 series has the detuned seek as default so in that specific intra-brand case the DVR model is better. All other major manufacturers allow manual modification of the acoustics of their drives without needing to pay a premium for a quiet one.

From a specification standpoint the WD 1TB is the superior drive choice for the TiVO at this point in time. It is rather new so does not have a history like the Deskstar but I have not seen any reports of problems that can be tied specifically to the drive itself.


----------



## jlib

HDTiVo said:


> I have been trying to get a TiVo HD to boot using Buffalo DriveStation Quattro...


That is really disappointing news. When you mentioned the Quattro last time the specs seemed ideal. I think I even encouraged you on. It seems you are doing everything right. Is the source drive you are copying from a stock original drive? Things I would do next: Are you using latest Beta 6 of WinMFS? If so I would next try the MFS Live method and I would buy a cheap PCI SATA/eSATA card for your PC (your mention of the USB convertor implies you have no SATA ports, right?) and then have the original drive and the Quattro attached at the same time rather than doing a separate backup and restore. Copy everything, don't truncate. Good luck!


----------



## FLBoy

I could not find the WD My DVR Expander in stock either locally or on the net last week, so I decided to risk installing a non-verified drive. I went with the Seagate DB35 500Gb in the Antec MX-1 enclosure, and the SIIG CB-SA0111-S1 cable, as recommended in the OP. 

The installation was as smooth as silk--10 minutes to install the drive into the enclosure, 10 minutes to connect everything, and another 10 minutes for TiVo to complete the installation process. (OK, I could have done it faster, but I was being slow and careful!)  

In the System Information display, my Recording Capacity now reads, "Variable, up to 98 HD hours, or 927 SD hours." Woohoo! Thanks, bkdtv, for a very helpful, complete, and accurate OP. I would not have attempted this without your help.


----------



## richsadams

FLBoy said:


> I could not find the WD My DVR Expander in stock either locally or on the net last week, so I decided to risk installing a non-verified drive. I went with the Seagate DB35 500Gb in the Antec MX-1 enclosure, and the SIIG CB-SA0111-S1 cable, as recommended in the OP.
> 
> The installation was as smooth as silk--10 minutes to install the drive into the enclosure, 10 minutes to connect everything, and another 10 minutes for TiVo to complete the installation process. (OK, I could have done it faster, but I was being slow and careful!)
> 
> In the System Information display, my Recording Capacity now reads, "Variable, up to 98 HD hours, or 927 SD hours." Woohoo! Thanks, bkdtv, for a very helpful, complete, and accurate OP. I would not have attempted this without your help.


Nice job...exactly what we have and it's been flawless for going on seven months now. I'll be installing a 1TB WD Green drive internally on our S3 soon and removing the eSATA, but we've really the extra space and put it to good use! :up:

Enjoy!


----------



## HDTiVo

jlib said:


> The DVR specific drives are of no benefit at all to the TiVo since it does not use any of their advanced features. Maybe a future TiVo will. Now, to be fair there is one circumstance where a DVR drive is superior to the equivalent standard drive. Seagate does not allow user modification of the head seek acoustics on their drives. Their DB35 series has the detuned seek as default so in that specific intra-brand case the DVR model is better. All other major manufacturers allow manual modification of the acoustics of their drives without needing to pay a premium for a quiet one.


The stock S3 drive (mine) was the WD2500BS (WD Caviar) which I don't think is an AV drive. The TiVo HDs are coming with WD1600AVBS (WD AV) which is an AV drive. I imagine the hi def TiVoes can use good quality non-AV drives perfectly well. I have been doing so with the stock S3 drive and Seagate Barracudas for a long time.

As for the Drivestation Quattro, while so far it is a disappointment relative to use with the TiVo HD, I may try it as an expansion drive like the other person asked about. I may give the copy everything a shot. The Quattro actually comes with an eSATA PC card, but I did not use it (though I did daisy chain the eSata port/cable plate and the eSata cable in my funky experiments.)

I have Barracudas now in the Quattro (they come with WD2500BBs) except for a Maxtor Diamond Max which is a bit noisy. If I attach that drive to the PC, how do I poke around to quiet it down? Seagate's site is not helpful about that.

Even if the TiVo experiments end in failure, I intend to use the Quattro on my TTG Server. :up: Can't wait for $149 1TB drives next year.


----------



## Mack The Dog

If I put the 1TB WD Green drive in an MX-1, leave the stock drive in my TivoHD, marry the two together with mfsadd, will I be able to upgrade the stock drive at a later date? If so, if I use mfscopy later will it copy the marriage with the 1TB and thus keep my recorded shows?


----------



## 1283

Mack The Dog said:


> If I put the 1TB WD Green drive in an MX-1, leave the stock drive in my TivoHD, marry the two together with mfsadd, will I be able to upgrade the stock drive at a later date? If so, if I use mfscopy later will it copy the marriage with the 1TB and thus keep my recorded shows?


I would recommend replacing the internal drive instead. 160GB is not worth adding as a second drive. If you want more space later, add another drive externally.


----------



## Scarabaeus

I just managed to "marry" a Hitachi Cinemastar 1TB in the Antek case to my TivoHD, using the "mfsadd -x -r 4 /dev/sda /dev/sdb" method.

It now reports 152 hours of HD / 1444 hours of SD.

Thank you all for the valuable info.


----------



## jlib

c3 said:


> I would recommend replacing the internal drive instead...


c3 speaks the truth. Since you have to open the TiVo anyway to accomplish your non-official upgrade, you might as well first just upgrade the internal drive to the maximum you can afford. It will probably be some time then until you would have to revisit the capacity issue again but if you did you could then add an external drive and not lose your then currently saved shows. If you start with an external drive add-on with stock internal drive and subsequently decide to upgrade the internal drive you will lose your saved shows.

One drive is better than two just from the keep-it-simple standpoint. The external drive add-on process is mainly of value if one is completely techno-phobic or the thought of opening the TiVo box and voiding the 90-day warranty causes pause or if one has already upgraded the internal drive and you realize that more is never enough. So, I know this is the eSATA expansion thread but the wisest course of action is actually to upgrade the internal drive first if one is willing to open the TiVO.


----------



## jlib

HDTiVo said:


> ...except for a Maxtor Diamond Max which is a bit noisy. If I attach that drive to the PC, how do I poke around to quiet it down?


As long as it is a _real_ Maxtor drive you can use Hitachi Feature Tool or the hdparm command on a Linux boot disk to put it in quiet mode. If it is a rebadged Seagate, probably not.


----------



## Wheens

I realize that this is probably elementary, but if I replace the original internal drive on my new THD with a 500G unit, is the new drive considered an expanded or upgraded drive or both? 

In the future, if I add an esata drive, do I have to reinstall the original drive and update the SW to 9.2?


----------



## bkdtv

Wheens said:


> I realize that this is probably elementary, but if I replace the original internal drive on my new THD with a 500G unit, is the new drive considered an expanded or upgraded drive or both?


Both.



Wheens said:


> In the future, if I add an esata drive, do I have to reinstall the original drive and update the SW to 9.2?


The "plug and play" eSATA expansion doesn't work if you have an upgraded drive in your Tivo, but you can still add an eSATA drive to an upgraded Tivo by using your computer, as described in FAQ #10, III. Non-Verified drives.


----------



## HDTiVo

jlib said:


> As long as it is a _real_ Maxtor drive you can use Hitachi Feature Tool or the hdparm command on a Linux boot disk to put it in quiet mode. If it is a rebadged Seagate, probably not.


I'm not sure how to tell. The manufacture date was in the first half of '06.

If I use the Hitachi Feature Tool (assume drive connected to PC via IDE - USB adapter) can I do it without damaging the data on the drive so it is likely to pop back into the Quattro and not have to re-build the RAID5 array (or worse yet, the data I've copied over so far gets lost?)


----------



## jlib

They merged in late 2005. In any case, adjusting the head seek acoustic setting has no affect on the contents of the drive itself. It is a firmware setting. But is is a DOS boot disk so USB is not natively supported. Do you have no standard IDE (PATA) cables in your system? Your CDROM is most likely on one. Just share that cable. You only need to boot the CD or floppy. You don't need any other hard drives connected. Alternately, a Linux boot disk will see the USB adapter in case you are using it on a laptop or other PC with no accessible IDE ports.


----------



## Mack The Dog

c3 said:


> I would recommend replacing the internal drive instead. 160GB is not worth adding as a second drive. If you want more space later, add another drive externally.


I understand that. My question is: IF I decide to keep the stock drive (btw, it is 250gb) inside my TivoHD, marry it to the 1TB green drive in an MX-1, decide that I need more than the 1.25TB at a later date, decide to use mfscopy to copy the stock drive to a new drive, would the marriage be copied as well?

Again, I do understand that this might not be recommended, just call it intellectual curiosity...


----------



## HDTiVo

Mack The Dog said:


> My question is: IF I decide to keep the stock drive (btw, it is 250gb) inside my TivoHD, marry it to the 1TB green drive in an MX-1, decide that I need more than the 1.25TB at a later date, decide to use mfscopy to copy the stock drive to a new drive, would the marriage be copied as well?
> 
> Again, I do understand that this might not be recommended, just call it intellectual curiosity...


I have a feeling that is a permutation that has not been tried yet.

I don't have any SATAs lying around available to try it with, or I'd give it a shot for you.


----------



## Thom

HDTiVo -

Here is what I would try, if you haven't already:

First, just try to get the TiVo to boot from a small Quattro setup to check for compatibility with the Quattro:

...configure your Quattro for spanning mode, and for RAID 1.
...using Linux "dd" utility, clone your original, unmodified TiVo A drive software to the Quattro. This will ensure that the TiVo software installed on your Quattro is completely identical to the software on your working A drive, even down to the partition map entries. If you don't know how to use the Linux dd utility, I'd be nervous about remotely talking you through it as you could easily obliterate your working A drive.
...try and boot your TiVo from the Quattro. 
...if it boots, your Quattro hardware (as configured) is compatible with the TiVo.
...if it doesn't boot, your Quattro hardware (as configured) is not compatible with the TiVo.
...whether or not it boots, try the same thing again, but configuring your Quattro for RAID 0, 5, and JBOD, to test compatibility. Always have the Quattro configured for spanning mode. Changing the Quattro configuration obliterates the software, you will have to copy ( dd ) it again.

Second, if your TiVo can boot from the Quattro using unmodified software and partitioning, use WinMFS (or MFSTool on MFSLive cd) to copy (but NOT expand) your TiVo A drive to the Quattro. See if it boots now. This will test if the TiVo software ( and firmware ) is compatible with the enlarged partition map that the MFS utility will create on the Quattro. If it fails to boot now, but booted using different Quattro configurations earlier, repeat this step with the different Quattro configurations that worked earlier.

Third, if your TiVo was able to boot when the software was copied using an MFS utility, use that MFS utility to expand your TiVo software to fill the Quattro and see it is still able to boot.

If you can't get the Quattro to work, you might want to try an Areca ARC5010 or ARC5030 internal RAID subsystem.

The ARC5010 uses either a PATA or a SATA-1 connection to the host (the TiVo), and accepts up to 5 PATA hard drives in a RAID 0, 1, 10, 3, 5 or JBOD configuration.

The ARC5030 uses either a PATA or a SATA-1 connection to the host (the TiVo), and accepts up to 5 SATA-2 hard drives in a RAID 0, 1, 10, 3, 5, 6 or JBOD configuration.

- Thom



HDTiVo said:


> I have been trying to get a TiVo HD to boot using Buffalo DriveStation Quattro connected to the eSata port. The DriveStation is the only drive and is ultimately connected to the internal SATA port on the MBD.
> 
> I've been able to use the same cabling to boot using a bare SATA drive...thus I don't think the cabling is the problem. I've also used the DriveStation on the PC (via USB-SATA adapter) to confirm its eSata port is working.
> 
> I've tried the DriveStation both in RAID 5 and JBOD modes ...
> 
> The TiVo HD only gets to the initial powering up screen, then repeats every couple minutes. There are a couple brief disk accesses during the process. No GSOD.
> 
> The DriveStation's eSATA port is a SATA 1 device and it actually uses 4 PATA drives internally. So I am wondering if the TiVo HD detects whether its drive(s) interfaces are SATA II and rejects them, and/or whether there is a speed/timing issue that trips it up.
> 
> Any ideas for getting this to work?


----------



## Canoehead

I'd just like to suggest that the WinMFS instructions in Section III 10 .3 of the original post be edited to so that it refers only to mfsadd - having the three options may be technically correct, but honestly it is a little confusing to the lightweights like me. I just married a 2nd 750gig using this process and it worked great - 218 hours total!


----------



## bkdtv

Canoehead said:


> I'd just like to suggest that the WinMFS instructions in Section III 10 .3 of the original post be edited to so that it refers only to mfsadd - having the three options may be technically correct, but honestly it is a little confusing to the lightweights like me. I just married a 2nd 750gig using this process and it worked great - 218 hours total!


Done.


----------



## TheOski

Canoehead said:


> I'd just like to suggest that the WinMFS instructions in Section III 10 .3 of the original post be edited to so that it refers only to mfsadd - having the three options may be technically correct, but honestly it is a little confusing to the lightweights like me. I just married a 2nd 750gig using this process and it worked great - 218 hours total!


I just spent tons of time to read through this thread 
So what your setup? Series 3 with two external or internal? And which hd brand?


----------



## Canoehead

TheOski said:


> I just spent tons of time to read through this thread
> So what your setup? Series 3 with two external or internal? And which hd brand?


The internal is a 750gig Seagate that I put in right after the Tivo S3 launched last year (not a DB35 - it is a little loud, but not too bad). I just added the Western Digital 750gig ES16 in an external Antec MX-1 enclosure (of course the WD cost about half as much as the Seagate from last year). Before adding the new drive I applied the Hitachi Accoustic tools, set to max quiet. I then used WinMFS to marry the drives. I used my work laptop (an old Thinkpad) to do the operation - I connected both drives via USB - the Antec via its USB cable, the Tivo drive via one of those Sata-USB adaptors without even removing the drive from the Tivo case - I just took the cover off, disconnected the cable to the drive and then connected the power and sata connections.

Couple of notes - it is worth being slow and deliberate in working with Tivo drives - hook up one at a time to the PC and make sure you know which is which. I also made a truncated backup of the internal before I hooked up the second drive.

I really must give all props to Spike - the process really is literally easier than it appears.


----------



## TheOski

Thanks for the info. I need to back up all the shows before I add another hd. Sounds my simpler than expanding a Directtv Tivo receiver which I did few years ago.


----------



## TheOski

BTW, which Sata-USB adaptor are u using?


----------



## rrg

richsadams said:


> I'll be installing a 1TB WD Green drive internally on our S3 soon and removing the eSATA...


Speaking of this: can you (or someone) provide a link to a best-practices way of upgrading the internal drive on a Series 3?

A Google search uncovers several sets of instructions that differ in small particulars, and I'd feel safer using something recommended here.


----------



## Canoehead

TheOski said:


> BTW, which Sata-USB adaptor are u using?


I bought a Sabrent from Amazon. Monoprice.com also has one that looks like it would work fine. I liked doing it this way because I could move the laptop to the tivo, and not have to remove the drive or unhook all the various cables from the Tivo. I actually have a bit of a ghetto solution on my desktop for this kind of thing - since the back of the tower is tough to get to, I have a couplr of spare internal SATA cables (I have 8 ports on my MBoard and don't use them all) and a couple of power cables dangling out the front of the tower - I just ran them between a couple of removable drive bay covers. They can be tucked back inside for appearance sake if necessary.


----------



## Canoehead

TheOski said:


> Thanks for the info. I need to back up all the shows before I add another hd. Sounds my simpler than expanding a Directtv Tivo receiver which I did few years ago.


I could be wrong, but I think that to back up shows you need to do a dd copy of the whole drive - and I don't think that WinMFS supports this. You may need the knoppix MFS tools setup. That's how I did it when I upgraded next year - easy for a Linux pro, a little nerve-racking for a rank amateur like myself, but I had teach support (my younger brother) on the line.


----------



## richsadams

rrg said:


> Speaking of this: can you (or someone) provide a link to a best-practices way of upgrading the internal drive on a Series 3?
> 
> A Google search uncovers several sets of instructions that differ in small particulars, and I'd feel safer using something recommended here.


Here you go...

http://www.mfslive.org/

Although it looks a little complicated at first it's really not. WinMFS is a sweet little program you load on your P.C., then remove your existing TiVo HDD, hook it up to your PC along with your new drive and do a little magic with the easy to follow steps posted on the website. The site is owned/operated by Spike2k5, one of the frequent posters here. Hes been doing this stuff since the dark ages.  He has his own forum as well if you have any questions.

Once you're done you pop the new drive in and ta-dah, more space! I make a practice of saving the old drive as a backup.

Have fun and enjoy! :up:


----------



## gandalf_the_gray

I have an upgraded Series3 TiVo and the original drive sitting in a box. I'm thinking of putting the original drive in an eSata enclosure and then follow the instructions in III.10. Anyone else tried this? 

Will I lose any of the shows on the internal drive? Sounds like I'll lose the recordings on the original (now external) drive which is OK since I gave up on them when I replaced the drive.

I have a couple of PCs running XP ... an old desktop with USB1 rather than USB2 ports and no SATA. Will this work with USB1 connections? and a relatively new laptop with USB2 ports and no Sata. It looks like the referenced SATA/USB connector provides power as well as connectivity. True?

Recommendations?

Once "married", if I decide to get a larger drive for the external enclosure, will I need to do anything to "divorce" the drives? or do anything special to marry the new one (other than following the same procedure outlined III.10.)?


----------



## Canoehead

gandalf_the_gray said:


> I have an upgraded Series3 TiVo and the original drive sitting in a box. I'm thinking of putting the original drive in an eSata enclosure and then follow the instructions in III.10. Anyone else tried this?
> 
> Will I lose any of the shows on the internal drive? Sounds like I'll lose the recordings on the original (now external) drive which is OK since I gave up on them when I replaced the drive.
> 
> I have a couple of PCs running XP ... an old desktop with USB1 rather than USB2 ports and no SATA. Will this work with USB1 connections? and a relatively new laptop with USB2 ports and no Sata. It looks like the referenced SATA/USB connector provides power as well as connectivity. True?
> 
> Recommendations?
> 
> Once "married", if I decide to get a larger drive for the external enclosure, will I need to do anything to "divorce" the drives? or do anything special to marry the new one (other than following the same procedure outlined III.10.)?


Why not use the new laptop - it has the better connections and you can move it to the tivo? The Sabrent Sata-USB adaptor I used includes a power supply.

Why not buy a bigger drive and keep the old internal in a drawer? You can get a 500gig for abou $100 - or about $130 if you want a DB35 (if you use a normal WD, look on this thread for the Hitachi accoustic tools).

There is a divorce procedure in WinMFS


----------



## AZrob

Two MY DVR Expander questions:

1. Can it be placed on its side or does it have to sit upright?

2. If the answer to #1 is that it must sit upright, can anyone tell me exactly how wide the box is? I don't know if I'll have room for it sitting between my Tivo and my HT Receiver on my media shelf.

Thanks,

Rob from AZ


----------



## bkdtv

AZrob said:


> Two MY DVR Expander questions:
> 
> 1. Can it be placed on its side or does it have to sit upright?
> 
> 2. If the answer to #1 is that it must sit upright, can anyone tell me exactly how wide the box is? I don't know if I'll have room for it sitting between my Tivo and my HT Receiver on my media shelf.


I suppose you could sit it on the side, but I wouldn't recommend that. It has vents on the sides and rear. If you set the drive on its side, it loses perhaps 40% of its ventilation.

The dimensions are 6.8"W by 5.5"D by 2.25"H.


----------



## AZrob

bkdtv said:


> I suppose you could sit it on the side, but I wouldn't recommend that. It has vents on the sides and rear. If you set the drive on its side, it loses perhaps 40% of its ventilation.
> 
> The dimensions are 6.8"W by 5.5"D by 2.25"H.


Thanks for the quick reply, but now I'm a bit confused. By your description of where you see the vents and your dimensions, it would seem that you are in fact placing the drive on its side. The photos all show a box that is sitting upright, with slots on the rear and the top. The smallest dimension of the box in the photo would be what I call the Width, and that could conceivably be 2.25"...but not the Height. Are we talking about the same drive?

Rob


----------



## bkdtv

AZrob said:


> Thanks for the quick reply, but now I'm a bit confused. By your description of where you see the vents and your dimensions, it would seem that you are in fact placing the drive on its side. The photos all show a box that is sitting upright, with slots on the rear and the top. The smallest dimension of the box in the photo would be what I call the Width, and that could conceivably be 2.25"...but not the Height. Are we talking about the same drive?


Yes.

Tivo does show the drive upright in this photo, as does Western Digital in this photo. I guess it doesn't matter whether you block one of the three vents on the unit by standing it up like that.

As shown in that photo, the dimensions are 6.8"H by 2.25"H by 5.5"D. If you sit it flat so the WD logo is on top (and no vents are blocked), then the dimensions are 2.25"H by 6.8"W by 5.5"D.


----------



## AZrob

bkdtv said:


> Yes.
> 
> Tivo does show the drive upright in this photo, as does Western Digital in this photo. I guess it doesn't matter whether you block one of the three vents on the unit by standing it up like that.
> 
> As shown in that photo, the dimensions are 6.8"H by 2.25"H by 5.5"D. If you sit it flat so the WD logo is on top (and no vents are blocked), then the dimensions are 6.8"W by 5.5"D by 2.25"H.


Okay, thanks for the link. I couldn't find this drive on the WD website. Now I know that WD offers an extended warranty purchasable from the website, which is an option I may consider...

Rob


----------



## Canoehead

I have a couple of the normal (ie not DVR) WD mybooks - they work just fine stood on one "edge" - there are enven little feet on one of the edges - at most you lose 25% vent space.


----------



## AZrob

Canoehead said:


> I have a couple of the normal (ie not DVR) WD mybooks - they work just fine stood on one "edge" - there are enven little feet on one of the edges - at most you lose 25% vent space.


You mean, you are stacking it lying on its side, instead of straight up and down like a book in a bookshelf?


----------



## CharlesH

AZrob said:


> You mean, you are stacking it lying on its side, instead of straight up and down like a book in a bookshelf?


I am also a bit confused about terminology.

There is the orientation shown in the pictures, which is like a book in a bookcase. In this orientation, it is sitting with one edge with vents, which is not completely blocked, since the rubber rim is raised a bit (maybe 2mm).

Then there is flat-like-a-book-on-a-table orientation, with all three vented edges exposed, along with the lighted logo on the fourth side opposite the side with the connectors.

I think the question is whether this latter orientation is OK, from a ventilation perspective, even though the illustrations use the former orientation.


----------



## Kenji

AZrob said:


> Can (the My DVR Expander) be placed on its side or does it have to sit upright?


The My DVR Expander Quick Install Guide always shows the unit in the "book on a shelf" orientation. Furthermore, the guide never states that you may orient the unit any other way. Therefore, I'd say that the unit must always stand upright.


----------



## AZrob

CharlesH said:


> I am also a bit confused about terminology.
> 
> There is the orientation shown in the pictures, which is like a book in a bookcase. In this orientation, it is sitting with one edge with vents, which is not completely blocked, since the rubber rim is raised a bit (maybe 2mm).
> 
> Then there is flat-like-a-book-on-a-table orientation, with all three vented edges exposed, along with the lighted logo on the fourth side opposite the side with the connectors.
> 
> I think the question is whether this latter orientation is OK, from a ventilation perspective, even though the illustrations use the former orientation.


Yes, that's what I was wondering, since having a "top" vent seems more efficient at eliminating heat than having a second "side" vent.


----------



## Canoehead

Canoehead said:


> I have a couple of the normal (ie not DVR) WD mybooks - they work just fine *stood *  on one "*edge*" - there are enven little feet on one of the edges - at most you lose 25% vent space.


I mean standing (as in being upright) on one edge (as in a narrow bit) which covers about 25% of the vents (one of the 2 shorter vent panels).


----------



## richsadams

Wow! You guys are really getting hung up on a mostly non-issue...IMHO. The drive will work whether it's placed upright, on its side, upside down, it really doesn't matter.

Since this particular drive doesn't have a fan you just need to be aware of ventilation issues. If it's located in a non-vented cabinet, lying on top of a receiver it will get hot and could get hot enough to do some damage to the HDD. If it has some fresh air circulating around it and the ability to vent heat away from the HDD it will be fine.

Heat is certainly the enemy of electronic equipment, but this model has a DVR rated drive that's designed to do what it's supposed to do without overheating. Place it in a somewhat open spot somewhere near your TiVo, preferably not on it, and you shouldnt have any worries with regard to spontaneous combustion.

Try not to over think this too much gentleman; its a simple external drive connected to a computer...weve been doing this for many, many years.


----------



## rudolpht

Well, I just wanted to say that I have had an Appian 750gb drive for a long time. I was waiting for the software release to do the plug and play with my S3 internal drive (bought upgraded to 750 gb). I was scared to death to do the remove and boot etc.

When it became clear that I couldn't use the drive on my TivoHD since it was not an approved drive and I couldn't do plug & play S3 with a MyDVR since I had an upgraded internal without doing the marrying manually, it was time to upgrade using the Appian. (I am going to use the MyDVR on the TivoHD or sell it). 

Well I hooked up the Appian by USB, disconnected power to all my hard drives in my PC, hooked up removed and hooked up the Tivo internal.

Side Note:Why the internal has that combined data and power connector is beyond me, delayed me needing to get a PC to SATA power connector (of course Radio Shacks don't have electronics anymore )

Checked the partitions to see that sda with "cat /prot/partitions" (more partitions listed) since the two drives were identical.

Did the mfsadd -ex -r 4 /dev/sda/ /dev/sdb with fingers crossed.

Got the message back that drives were married.

Reinstalled the Tivo drive. Connected eSata and turned on power to external.

Replugged the Tivo. After power up messages, it worked and showed the 1898 SD hours, nothing else required.


THANK YOU. THANK YOU. No lost Star Wars Old & New trilogies. No lost classics.

THANK YOU!!!


----------



## 1283

richsadams said:


> this model has a DVR rated drive that's designed to do what it's supposed to do without overheating.


I don't think such drive exists.


----------



## stulaloyd

Wondering if a lot of people are having trouple getting the update. Signed up for service two Fridays ago and have twice signed up for the priority list, talked to customer service and frequently manually connected to the TiVo network but am still stuck on version 9.1. Strange thing is, I got the message saying that new TiVo services had been added (including the hard drive expansion), but no new downloads. Anyone know what's up? My DVR Expander just shipped from TiVo and I would love to be able to set it up when it arrives, but with no firmware update, what's a guy to do?


----------



## richsadams

c3 said:


> I don't think such drive exists.


Well, as much as any drive is w/AAM, lower error rate reductions, etc. The point is that there's really nothing unusual about the drive and enclosure or how it should sit on a shelf.


----------



## rrg

richsadams said:


> http://www.mfslive.org/


Thanks very much. A couple more questions (which I'll ask Spike if they're not appropriate here):

Is it reasonable/feasible to upgrade the internal drive prior even to turning on the new Series 3 for the first time, activating it, etc.?

And if so, is it additionally reasonable/feasible to marry an external drive at the same time, i.e. before first powering up the TiVo?

My thought is just that if I have to open up the case anyway I might as well perform both upgrades at the same time, if it's practical.


----------



## opus472

Any speculation on when an approved 1T DVR expander might become available?


----------



## bkdtv

opus472 said:


> Any speculation on when an approved 1T DVR expander might become available?


I contacted a spokesperson for Western Digital and they said a 1TB version should be available by this time next year. They would not be any more specific than that.


----------



## bkdtv

rrg said:


> Thanks very much. A couple more questions (which I'll ask Spike if they're not appropriate here):
> 
> Is it reasonable/feasible to upgrade the internal drive prior even to turning on the new Series 3 for the first time, activating it, etc.?


Yes, you can do that.



rrg said:


> And if so, is it additionally reasonable/feasible to marry an external drive at the same time, i.e. before first powering up the TiVo?


Yes, you can do that.

Before upgrading, I would check to see whether the unit is DOA though. Some small percentage of units are bad out of the box (i.e. damaged in shipping). But you can certainly upgrade before you've run through guided setup to activate your account, setup your provider / channels, etc.


----------



## richsadams

rrg said:


> Thanks very much. A couple more questions (which I'll ask Spike if they're not appropriate here):
> 
> Is it reasonable/feasible to upgrade the internal drive prior even to turning on the new Series 3 for the first time, activating it, etc.?
> 
> And if so, is it additionally reasonable/feasible to marry an external drive at the same time, i.e. before first powering up the TiVo?
> 
> My thought is just that if I have to open up the case anyway I might as well perform both upgrades at the same time, if it's practical.


Yep, what *bkdtv * said, yes and yes. 

Just curious, how much capacity are you planning on having? Depending on what you're after the least expensive way is to upgrade the internal drive - up to 1TB. Of course if you need more space, you can add an eSATA drive, but if not, there's no need to have one.


----------



## MarcusV

Thanks!

MarcusV


----------



## MarcusV

read the files from the extended drive, but wasn't sure if that meant via Tivo ToGo or by attaching the HDD straight to the PC.

Thanks again!
-MarcusV


----------



## moxie1617

It can't read the extended drive if it is attached directly to the PC. TTG works great.


----------



## jasel

After reading the FAQ and a few pages of posts, would this be correct:

Even though you can get a 500gb WD drive for a savings of $50 from Amazon (WDG1SU5000), the prudent thing to do would be to just spend $200 and get the 'approved' DVR Expander drive (WDG1S5000) from TiVo? 

You're getting as much additional storage that costs less than 1/2 the price of a 750GB DB35 internal drive kit, and you retain all support for your Series 3.

I'm ordering a 2nd Series 3 from Amazon for $568 ($368 w/rebate) which is also less than 1/2 the price I paid for my first unit a year ago. With Tivo2Go and MultiRoomViewing now, does life get much better?

Thanks,

Jas.


----------



## bkdtv

jasel said:


> Even though you can get a 500gb WD drive for a savings of $50 from Amazon (WDG1SU5000), the prudent thing to do would be to just spend $200 and get the 'approved' DVR Expander drive (WDG1S5000) from TiVo?


If you're going to buy a retail eSATA drive (rather than building your own), the "Tivo Verified" Western Digital My DVR Expander is the only product I would consider.

Another alternative to consider is an upgrade of the internal drive with a 1Tb model like the Western Digital WD10EACS, but then you give up Tivo support. A number of members were able to buy that drive for $260 on sale. We're about two weeks away from Black Friday and the holiday shipping season, so it is possible we will see another sale on that drive in the near future.


----------



## jasel

Thanks for the quick response. Considering the price of the expander, and that I will now have 2 Series 3 boxes with which to transfer programs between, I went ahead and ordered the expander from TiVo. I have an extended warranty on my current box, so cracking it open will void it.

And with a total of >120 hours of HD, I have more space than I ever would have dreamed possible last year.

Now if I could only get my cable company to realize that cable cards are a valid alternative to digital cable boxes, and not charge $3 a month for each, I'd be in business.

Thanks again,

Jas.


----------



## rrg

richsadams said:


> Just curious, how much capacity are you planning on having? Depending on what you're after the least expensive way is to upgrade the internal drive - up to 1TB. Of course if you need more space, you can add an eSATA drive, but if not, there's no need to have one.


I'm going to max this new unit out with 1TB internal +1TB external.

We're running now with a 750GB Series 3 (upgraded before purchase) and this new TV season is killing us; I record everything as "Keep until I delete" and I'm having a hell of a time keeping ahead of it. We're recording a lot more than we're watching, and planning to get to it later--perhaps in the summer, or maybe when the writer's strike causes the current season to dry up.

Turning on TTG/TTCB has improved things because now we have the option to off-load shows to PC storage, but we need another Series 3 anyway to take advantage of MRV and (equally important) to add another couple of tuners.

Although we have other ways to record (capture cards, Nextcom-modified R5000-HD satellite and cable STBs, HR10-250 TiVos, HDHomeRun, etc.), the TiVo Series 3 is by far my favorite platform for this so I hope to move to it as much as possible (in place of other flaky media player alternatives).

I also plan to add an external 1TB drive to the original 750GB series 3. Which raises one more question (if you don't mind): will the MFSLive tools allow me to upgrade the already-upgraded-750GB Series 3 to use a 1TB internal, while still preserving all its recordings? From a quick perusal it looks like the answer's yes, but I haven't looked in depth yet.

Thanks very much for all the help.


----------



## bkdtv

rrg said:


> I also plan to add an external 1TB drive to the original 750GB series 3. Which raises one more question (if you don't mind): will the MFSLive tools allow me to upgrade the already-upgraded-750GB Series 3 to use a 1TB internal, while still preserving all its recordings? From a quick perusal it looks like the answer's yes, but I haven't looked in depth yet.


Yes, you can.


----------



## richsadams

rrg said:


> I'm going to max this new unit out with 1TB internal +1TB external.
> 
> We're running now with a 750GB Series 3 (upgraded before purchase) and this new TV season is killing us; I record everything as "Keep until I delete" and I'm having a hell of a time keeping ahead of it. We're recording a lot more than we're watching, and planning to get to it later--perhaps in the summer, or maybe when the writer's strike causes the current season to dry up.
> 
> Turning on TTG/TTCB has improved things because now we have the option to off-load shows to PC storage, but we need another Series 3 anyway to take advantage of MRV and (equally important) to add another couple of tuners.
> 
> Although we have other ways to record (capture cards, Nextcom-modified R5000-HD satellite and cable STBs, HR10-250 TiVos, HDHomeRun, etc.), the TiVo Series 3 is by far my favorite platform for this so I hope to move to it as much as possible (in place of other flaky media player alternatives).
> 
> I also plan to add an external 1TB drive to the original 750GB series 3. Which raises one more question (if you don't mind): will the MFSLive tools allow me to upgrade the already-upgraded-750GB Series 3 to use a 1TB internal, while still preserving all its recordings? From a quick perusal it looks like the answer's yes, but I haven't looked in depth yet.
> 
> Thanks very much for all the help.


Understood. :up: Do you mind if I sight your post as an example for my wife? She thinks I'm insane for wanting more than the original 250GB drive our S3 came with. Knowing that there are others out there that think 2TB's might not be enough could, just could keep her from rolling her eyes at me so often. 

Oh, and as *bkdtv * (who's beating me to the punch these days  ) said, yes you can have your cake and eat it too.


----------



## ObviousMan

I'm ready to install the expansion, but for some reason after about 8 days of registering for priority push I do not have 9.2 on my HD Tivo. Should I re-register for priority, or it may take longer than specified 3 business days in some cases?
OM


----------



## rrg

richsadams said:


> Do you mind if I cite your post as an example for my wife? She thinks I'm insane for wanting more than the original 250GB drive our S3 came with. Knowing that there are others out there that think 2TB's might not be enough could, just could keep her from rolling her eyes at me so often.


By all means. High-definition takes so much space (you must already have pointed out) that 2 TB is not nearly enough if you're archiving anything at all, and even if you're not you can run out easily unless you don't care about what gets saved.

I have friends who just want there to be something good to watch when they sit down, so they don't care if the TiVo erases older things. I'm way too obsessive for that: if I'm following a series, I want to see all the episodes, not just some of them. And I might not be able to watch for a long time, so I need to rely on the recorder hanging onto them for me--either that or do a lot of work to extract them and restore them later. Throwing disk space at the problem (and it's gotten SO amazingly cheap) is a great solution that works for a long time.



> Oh, and as *bkdtv * (who's beating me to the punch these days) said, yes you can have your cake and eat it too.


Always a wonderful thing. Thanks.


----------



## rrg

Another thought/question: the new Series 3 (which arrived today from amazon.com) will likely not have the 9.2 software installed yet. Will this affect my ability to marry the external drive prior to activating the unit?

I'm guessing it won't, since I'm using the mfsadd technique to add the second drive, and not the TiVo-sanctioned technique.


----------



## richsadams

rrg said:


> Another thought/question: the new Series 3 (which arrived today from amazon.com) will likely not have the 9.2 software installed yet. Will this affect my ability to marry the external drive prior to activating the unit?
> 
> I'm guessing it won't, since I'm using the mfsadd technique to add the second drive, and not the TiVo-sanctioned technique.


You are correct, since you're not using a kickstart or plug and pray method to add your expansion drive, no worries about the software version.

You can sign up for the latest trial version of the next update or just leave it alone and it will eventually upgrade when they push the final version ETA later this month.

www.tivo.com/priority


----------



## richsadams

ObviousMan said:


> I'm ready to install the expansion, but for some reason after about 8 days of registering for priority push I do not have 9.2 on my HD Tivo. Should I re-register for priority, or it may take longer than specified 3 business days in some cases?
> OM


 Keep in mind that TiVo only downloads priority requests 1x/day and distributes upgrades Monday through Friday only...so you can't count weekends. Also note that they appear to be coordinating downloads to all of the TiVo's in a household at the same time.

v.9.2.j priority upgrades seemed to have flooded out to S3s and TiVo HDs earlier, around October 18th or so, but have now slowed quite a bit based on the posts on the forum. There are a couple of things I can think of that may be causing it.

The general public has been given the link from the expansion drive page. Historically the link has been pretty hard to find except for us hard core fanatics. The additional demand may be slowing the system a bit.

IIRC in the past when a final version was about to be pushed out, they stopped distribution of the trial version. It's possible that they're preparing to push the final, v9.2, into the wild. That usually takes place over a period of about three weeks. It might be longer this time around as word from a few CSRs (take it for what thats worth), is v9.2 will be sent to all boxes including Series 2s.

TiVo did promise the latest update for November so it may be ready to roll (usually starts on a Monday).

So that's my "what if/maybe/WAG" list for today. 

I've seen reports of some folks that tried re-registering and it seemed to have worked and others that have done so three or four times to no avail...your call.

*EDIT*: Hey, I was right (for once)! The final upgrade, v9.2 is about to be distributed. More here.


----------



## tyoung88

So has anyone figured out yet how the MyDVR Expander technically works to be a "approved drive?" Is it something that is imaged onto the MyDVR drive itself, in the firmware, or some other approach? I have a THD with an Antex MX-1 waiting for a nice shiny 1TB drive but I'm hesitant to open up the THD because it will void my warranty. Is there any hope for a PNP "workaround" solution for eSATA on a THD or should I give up now?


----------



## richsadams

tyoung88 said:


> So has anyone figured out yet how the MyDVR Expander technically works to be a "approved drive?" Is it something that is imaged onto the MyDVR drive itself, in the firmware, or some other approach? I have a THD with an Antex MX-1 waiting for a nice shiny 1TB drive but I'm hesitant to open up the THD because it will void my warranty. Is there any hope for a PNP solution for eSATA on a THD or should I give up now?


No idea what they're using to ID the "approved device". I'd bet it's the drive model number, but thats just speculation based on the fact that thats what appears on the System Info screen once an external drive is married up. Im not sure how you could fool TiVo into thinking that a different drive had the same model number.

Based on posts from TiVo folks, I don't think there's any hope of adding an "unapproved device" via P&P to the TiVo HD any time soon. I think if someone like Spike had conquered it we'd know by now.

If you're going to open the box and use WinMFS to upgrade your unit (now or later) I'd just replace the internal drive with your 1TB drive and forget about the expansion...unless you need the few more gigs that your existing internal drive would give you.


----------



## tyoung88

Opening up my THD will void my warranty right?


----------



## richsadams

tyoung88 said:


> Opening up my THD will void my warranty right?


Heres my little dissertation on upgrading TiVo and voiding the warranty. For those that have read it before, feel free to talk amongst yourselves. 

TiVo's come with a 90 day limited warranty. One of the limitations includes voiding the warranty by removing the cover. I remember our old TiVo's had a warranty sticker stuck to the outside which would usually be destroyed if you pulled the cover...although a lot of us did it anyway. The new boxes don't have any such sticker that I'm aware of, so I'm not sure how they can tell. Hopefully an expert can shed some light on that point. (Still waiting on that.)

In truth the one item that most often fails in TiVo's case is the hard drive (and that's somewhat unusual, on par with HDD failures overall). The mother board, power supply, modem, and various other items rarely if ever cause any problems and if they do it will usually show up in the form of a DOA box, one that never works OR years later, long after the warranty has expired. In that respect, TiVo is really no different than most computers.

If you purchased your TiVo from TiVo the risk is a little higher that you may have problems with warranty support. If you purchased it from Amazon or a retail supplier, you can generally return it for a replacement no questions asked anyway. If you used a credit card that automatically extends the warranty so much the better.

As long as you don't destroy something during the upgrade the likelihood of a new hard drive damaging something else in TiVo is pretty much zero. If you're likely to do some damage replacing a hard drive, you probably shouldn't even think about it. 

No one here will openly advocate voiding TiVo's warranty, but the bottom line is that AFAIK if you upgrade the hard drive and something else fails, you can replace it with the original (providing you kept it) and still get it serviced by TiVo - full replacement (with a repaired, renewed or comparable product) in the first 90 days or an exchange with a fee ($49) within a year. There are even a number of stories here about TiVo replacing boxes for an exchange fee a year-and-a-half or two later.

After more than a half-dozen TiVo's...one a refurb and all modded in one way or another...I've never returned one for anything. Call me lucky, but I really don't have much heartburn over opening them up when I get them any more. Of course, YMMV.


----------



## richsadams

Wow!  I was right for once! (Earlier post) The final version of the latest upgrade, v9.2 is on it's way.

More here.


----------



## nexus99

Finally! 165 Hours of HD goodness. 
Sorry for the useless but joyfull post.


----------



## rrg

A couple more questions:

In various posts I keep seeing references to the "Hitachi acoustic tools". What are these, where can I get them, and would I need to apply them to the Western Digital WD10EACS 1TB drives that I'll be using (both internal and external)?

I've also seen a few references to a "supersize" option and to people having problems (or not) with it, but it's not clear to me what it is.


----------



## richsadams

nexus99 said:


> Finally! 165 Hours of HD goodness.
> Sorry for the useless but joyfull post.


Congrats and enjoy! :up:


----------



## richsadams

rrg said:


> A couple more questions:
> 
> In various posts I keep seeing references to the "Hitachi acoustic tools". What are these, where can I get them, and would I need to apply them to the Western Digital WD10EACS 1TB drives that I'll be using (both internal and external)?
> 
> I've also seen a few references to a "supersize" option and to people having problems (or not) with it, but it's not clear to me what it is.


Adjusting the acoustic management on your new drive isn't necessary but might be helpful if the drive is noisy during its seek sequences (clicking, etc.) The reference is to the Hitachi Feature Tool:

http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm#FeatureTool

It's a small program you can download to your PC or to a floppy. You can then connect your new drive, boot from the floppy disk and use the acoustic management program to adjust the sound of your new drive to the lowest level, 128. There are detailed directions on the web page as well.

"Supersize" is part of the WinMFS program for upgrading drives available here:

http://www.mfslive.org/

A couple of folks mentioned that they had problems when they enabled "Supersize" but Spike2k5 (the creator of WinMFS) says there shouldn't be any issues. You can read up on it on his website. There is a forum there as well.


----------



## Canoehead

I applied the acoustic management to my new WD 1TerByte and it is essentially silent in the Tivo HD case. My older S3 with the old Seagate 750 (not DB35) was clearly audible seek, but it is in the living room, so it doesn't really matter. The HD is going in the bedroom, so I wanted to make it as quiet as possible - and I am really pleased with the results - I wanted to avoid having nightmares of being overrun by chittering little bugs.


----------



## Raoul99

I have a TivoHD upgraded with a 750GB internal drive. I'm thinking about adding a 1TB external drive, and I have a couple of questions:

Does the Antec MX-1 come with the sata & power cables to connect the drive INSIDE the case? 

When I use WinMFS to add the external drive to the upgraded drive, can I use the original Tivo drive or do I have to use the upgraded drive? (I'm guessing I'd have to use the upgraded drive, but thought I'd double-check.)

Any info would be great.

Thanks, 

Rick


----------



## richsadams

Raoul99 said:


> I have a TivoHD upgraded with a 750GB internal drive. I'm thinking about adding a 1TB external drive, and I have a couple of questions:
> 
> Does the Antec MX-1 come with the sata & power cables to connect the drive INSIDE inside the case?


Not sure what you mean by "INSIDE inside", but the Antec MX-1 includes all of the proper SATA connections inside the enclosure and comes with an eSATA II cable to connect it to TiVo. Ours has worked flawlessly for over six months. However, there were a number of reports of the supplied cable being a problem along about July/August. The SIIG CB-SA0111-S1  is a recommended replacement to ensure there are no problems.



Raoul99 said:


> When I use WinMFS to add the external drive to the upgraded drive, can I use the original Tivo drive or do I have to use the upgraded drive? (I'm guessing I'd have to use the upgraded drive, but thought I'd double-check.)
> 
> Any info would be great.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Rick


AFAIK you should use the upgraded drive.


----------



## richsadams

If you have an eSATA drive connected to your S3 and receive the latest upgrade, v9.2.a, can you please post a quick :up: or :down: if your drive continues to work?

A post on another thread indicates that the OP just received the latest/final upgrade, v9.2.a and that her eSATA drive continues to work normally on her S3.

However another post says that the latest upgrade killed the eSATA drive connection on his S3.

Historically existing eSATA drives have continued to work through all upgrades since May of this year. This is the first time someone has had a problem which appears to have been caused by the most recent upgrade.

Thanks!

*EDIT*: As noted in my post on another thread, we just received v9.2a and everything is working fine. Our eSATA drive continues to be recognized as usual. A number of other positive posts have come in as well, so it looks like there is no problem.


----------



## JonHB

richsadams said:


> No idea what they're using to ID the "approved device". I'd bet it's the drive model number, but thats just speculation based on the fact that thats what appears on the System Info screen once an external drive is married up. Im not sure how you could fool TiVo into thinking that a different drive had the same model number.
> 
> Based on posts from TiVo folks, I don't think there's any hope of adding an "unapproved device" via P&P to the TiVo HD any time soon. I think if someone like Spike had conquered it we'd know by now.
> 
> If you're going to open the box and use WinMFS to upgrade your unit (now or later) I'd just replace the internal drive with your 1TB drive and forget about the expansion...unless you need the few more gigs that your existing internal drive would give you.


I have an approved WD MyBook 500GB drive, but it was briefly used on a PC prior to trying it out with Tivo. Because of this, Tivo is refusing to use it as an expander.

Can anyone tell me what the "factory fresh" configuration is when the drive comes out of the box? e.g. what kind of partitions (Type id), size, drive signature id, etc.???

I've tried it by deleting all partitions, creating a single partition (of various types), etc. and it still won't add it. I know it is not a cabling issue as Tivo does recognize the drive as being there and shows the drive in the system info screen and I can see the drive access whenever Tivo tries to talk to it. (The MyBook blue light glows during access).

I know I could add it with WinMFS, but I don't have any SATA capable PC's at home. I can use the USB port on the drive to reconfigure it from my laptop prior to having Tivo try to boot from it, so I would like to just try it by having it in the same config as a factory fresh one. Would anyone pull their's and check the drive parameters? Or better yet, check the drive parameters prior to marrying it to your THD?


----------



## drwho

I just got 9.2a today on my S3.

Trying to connect new Seagate 750GB FreeAgent Pro using a PNY eSATA cable from Best Buy (Only cable I could find in Nashville, TN).

My TiVo sees nothing! Go to storage expansion menu, says no external drive found...

Is anybody using Seagate FreeAgent Pro drive?

Do I just have a bad eSATA cable?

Does 9.2a (both B1 and non B1) no longer support non-verified drives?


----------



## Raoul99

Hi Rich...thanks for the quick response.

The "2 insides" was a goof...now corrected.

What I meant to ask was if the MX-1 comes with the cables to connect the hard drive to the case internally, NOT to the Tivo externally? 

Rick


----------



## richsadams

JonHB said:


> I have an approved WD MyBook 500GB drive, but it was briefly used on a PC prior to trying it out with Tivo. Because of this, Tivo is refusing to use it as an expander.
> 
> Can anyone tell me what the "factory fresh" configuration is when the drive comes out of the box? e.g. what kind of partitions (Type id), size, drive signature id, etc.???
> 
> I've tried it by deleting all partitions, creating a single partition (of various types), etc. and it still won't add it. I know it is not a cabling issue as Tivo does recognize the drive as being there and shows the drive in the system info screen and I can see the drive access whenever Tivo tries to talk to it. (The MyBook blue light glows during access).
> 
> I know I could add it with WinMFS, but I don't have any SATA capable PC's at home. I can use the USB port on the drive to reconfigure it from my laptop prior to having Tivo try to boot from it, so I would like to just try it by having it in the same config as a factory fresh one. Would anyone pull their's and check the drive parameters? Or better yet, check the drive parameters prior to marrying it to your THD?


Are you trying to connect it to a TiVo HD or a Series 3? And when you say you have an "approved WD MyBook 500GB" is it this "approved device"?:

Western Digital My DVR Expander Hard Drive

If it's not that specific drive it will not work as a plug and play device on the TiVo HD.

It should work with a TiVo Series 3 however, but if not, can you post what software version your TiVo currently has? It has to be v9.2.j or higher for P&P to work on either model.

In any case, TiVo reformats all eSATA drives during the marriage process, so there is nothing (AFAIK) that can or needs to be done to a drive before connecting it as everything is lost at that time anyway.


----------



## richsadams

Raoul99 said:


> Hi Rich...thanks for the quick response.
> 
> The "2 insides" was a goof...now corrected.
> 
> What I meant to ask was if the MX-1 comes with the cables to connect the hard drive to the case internally, NOT to the Tivo externally?
> 
> Rick


In that case, yes. There's nothing else you'll need...except to possibly buy the recommended _external _ replacement eSATA cable. :up:


----------



## JonHB

richsadams said:


> Are you trying to connect it to a TiVo HD or a Series 3? And when you say you have an "approved WD MyBook 500GB" is it this "approved device"?:
> 
> Western Digital My DVR Expander Hard Drive
> 
> If it's not that specific drive it will not work as a plug and play device on the TiVo HD.
> 
> It should work with a TiVo Series 3 however, but if not, can you post what software version your TiVo currently has? It has to be v9.2.j or higher for P&P to work on either model.
> 
> In any case, TiVo reformats all eSATA drives during the marriage process, so there is nothing (AFAIK) that can or needs to be done to a drive before connecting it as everything is lost at that time anyway.


Trying to attach it to my Tivo HD running 9.2a.B1. The drive is the WDG1SU5000.

I know Tivo is seeing the drive just fine, it's just refusing to marry it. I'm just guessing that its verification process is looking from more than just the drive model number and will only work if it is considered "new". Thus, I'm trying to find out what that "new" config really looks like.

Thanks,
Jon


----------



## richsadams

drwho said:


> I just got 9.2a today on my S3.
> 
> Trying to connect new Seagate 750GB FreeAgent Pro using a PNY eSATA cable from Best Buy (Only cable I could find in Nashville, TN).
> 
> My TiVo sees nothing! Go to storage expansion menu, says no external drive found...
> 
> Is anybody using Seagate FreeAgent Pro drive?
> 
> Do I just have a bad eSATA cable?
> 
> Does 9.2a (both B1 and non B1) no longer support non-verified drives?


If you go back to the original Series3 eSATA Drive Expansion in 8.x: FAQ + Discussion thread you'll see that the Free Agent Pro drives are not recommended as expansion drives for TiVo (#36). Numerous posts indicated immediate problems...exactly like you're experiencing...or other problems later down the line due to overheating, etc. One of the main issues were the eSATA cables and the connections on the FAP drive causing problems. That said, there are people using them, but again many simply didn't work.

My suggestion would be to return the drive and purchase the "approved" Western Digital My DVR Expander Hard Drive  from TiVo, one of the recommended all-in-one expansion drives or a bare drive and enclosure combo such as the Seagate DB35 7200.3 series and Antec MX-1 enclosure.

All that said, there has been one report of an eSATA drive failing after the latest software upgrade, v9.2.a, was installed, but we're waiting for more feedback to see if it is in fact a problem.


----------



## tyoung88

JonHB said:


> I have an approved WD MyBook 500GB drive, but it was briefly used on a PC prior to trying it out with Tivo. Because of this, Tivo is refusing to use it as an expander.
> 
> Can anyone tell me what the "factory fresh" configuration is when the drive comes out of the box? e.g. what kind of partitions (Type id), size, drive signature id, etc.???
> 
> I've tried it by deleting all partitions, creating a single partition (of various types), etc. and it still won't add it. I know it is not a cabling issue as Tivo does recognize the drive as being there and shows the drive in the system info screen and I can see the drive access whenever Tivo tries to talk to it. (The MyBook blue light glows during access).
> 
> I know I could add it with WinMFS, but I don't have any SATA capable PC's at home. I can use the USB port on the drive to reconfigure it from my laptop prior to having Tivo try to boot from it, so I would like to just try it by having it in the same config as a factory fresh one. Would anyone pull their's and check the drive parameters? Or better yet, check the drive parameters prior to marrying it to your THD?


Unfortunately I can't help you out with you situation however I'm excited because your experience tells me that there is the possibility that there is actually something imaged onto the drive itself to cause the THD to see it as an approved drive. If it was firmware or model number then using it on your PC should have no effect. Interesting...

Anyone willing to do a disk image of their MyBook DVR Expander?

EDIT ** After reading your post... is your drive a MyBook DVR Expander or just a MyBook? The only approved drive is the MyBook DVR Expander.


----------



## richsadams

JonHB said:


> Trying to attach it to my Tivo HD running 9.2a.B1. The drive is the WDG1SU5000.
> 
> I know Tivo is seeing the drive just fine, it's just refusing to marry it. I'm just guessing that its verification process is looking from more than just the drive model number and will only work if it is considered "new". Thus, I'm trying to find out what that "new" config really looks like.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jon


The approved device is the WD My DVR Expander, WDG1S5000. If you have the WDG1SU5000, that is the My Book Premium ES Edition and it is _not _ the approved device and will not work via P&P with the TiVo HD. Unfortunately TiVo HD's will recognize any drive that you attach to them, but they will not allow it to work.

As you mentioned, it can be added with the WinMFS program though.


----------



## bkdtv

tyoung88 said:


> Anyone willing to do a disk image of their MyBook DVR Expander?
> 
> EDIT ** After reading your post... is your drive a MyBook DVR Expander or just a MyBook? The only approved drive is the My Book DVR Expander.


As far as I know, the term "My Book" is not used anywhere in the DVR Expander package or product information. Western Digital lists it separately from the My Books on its web site.

As far as a disk image...there is nothing to image. The drive is empty. TiVo looks at the drive firmware to determine whether the drive is supported.


----------



## robingo88

richsadams said:


> If you have an eSATA drive connected to your S3 and receive the latest upgrade, v9.2.a, can you please post a quick :up: or :down: if your drive continues to work?
> 
> Thanks!


hi rich... i was one of the posters on the other thread you mention... just some facts to give -my- experience (ymmv)

i have a July 2007 ST i received early last week... it had some flavor of 8.x on the unit when i received it (not sure) but after going through the initial guided setup i would up with a 9.1 version of the firmware...

i then went out to Frys and purchased the WD 1TB Green drive they were selling and installed it in a generic eSATA case (gonna upgrade the case this weekend) and did kickstart and the drive was recognized by the S3

i requested the priority upgrade a few times, but never got the 9.2j download

yesterday when TiVoPony mentioned that 9.2 had gone wide, i forced a network connection and got 9.2a-B1-01-2-648. checking System Info i found there was a new info line under HDMI status that says:

External Storage: WDC WD10EACS-00ZJB0 01.01B01

and my recording capacity was listed as "up to 165 HD hours, or 1561 SD hours"

today i noticed another pending restart and when i restarted the system i found that i now had software 9.1a-01-2-648

all else seems the same... drive still recognized, all programs intact

hope this is a useful datapoint for anyone else who may be trying to track down why their 9.2a upgrade pooches their kickstarted external drive.

(btw, this is a GREAT community...)

cheers
r


----------



## richsadams

robingo88 said:


> hi rich... i was one of the posters on the other thread you mention... just some facts to give -my- experience (ymmv)
> 
> i have a July 2007 ST i received early last week... it had some flavor of 8.x on the unit when i received it (not sure) but after going through the initial guided setup i would up with a 9.1 version of the firmware...
> 
> i then went out to Frys and purchased the WD 1TB Green drive they were selling and installed it in a generic eSATA case (gonna upgrade the case this weekend) and did kickstart and the drive was recognized by the S3
> 
> i requested the priority upgrade a few times, but never got the 9.2j download
> 
> yesterday when TiVoPony mentioned that 9.2 had gone wide, i forced a network connection and got 9.2a-B1-01-2-648. checking System Info i found there was a new info line under HDMI status that says:
> 
> External Storage: WDC WD10EACS-00ZJB0 01.01B01
> 
> and my recording capacity was listed as "up to 165 HD hours, or 1561 SD hours"
> 
> today i noticed another pending restart and when i restarted the system i found that i now had software 9.1a-01-2-648
> 
> all else seems the same... drive still recognized, all programs intact
> 
> hope this is a useful datapoint for anyone else who may be trying to track down why their 9.2a upgrade pooches their kickstarted external drive.
> 
> (btw, this is a GREAT community...)
> 
> cheers
> r


Thanks for that...but  Are you saying that yesterday after an upgrade your System Info screen listed your software version as 9.2a-B1-01-2-648, but today you rebooted and it now reads 9.1a-01-2-648?! Are you sure? 

Not doubting you but AFAIK there's never been an occasion for software to go backwards. If so...you're headed for the TiVo Record Book!


----------



## opus472

It's my understanding that the options for upgrading the internal drive are essentially the same for the HD and S3, but the HD requires an approved external drive whereas you have lots more external options with the S3. Is that basically correct?


----------



## fred2

drwho said:


> I just got 9.2a today on my S3.
> 
> Trying to connect new Seagate 750GB FreeAgent Pro using a PNY eSATA cable from Best Buy (Only cable I could find in Nashville, TN).
> 
> My TiVo sees nothing! Go to storage expansion menu, says no external drive found...
> 
> Is anybody using Seagate FreeAgent Pro drive?
> 
> Do I just have a bad eSATA cable?
> 
> Does 9.2a (both B1 and non B1) no longer support non-verified drives?


I am using the FAP750 that you are trying. I did have to trim a cable and expose more metal connector to get it recognized. I used the original kickstart method and it has survived firmware upgrades to the current 9.2 (no alpha in the release version) I have been using it since about June.

I don't know how they recommend attaching and powering on the various devices but I would suggest powering down the tivo (the very sophisticated UNPLUG it!!!). Connect and power up the FAP. Power up the Tivo. I have not looked for the connection storage screen....

Good luck

PS: Rich or others.... I am seeing reference to Firmware/software as 9.2axxxx - my recent upgrade does not have an alphabetic in the release which I thought was appropriate?????)


----------



## richsadams

opus472 said:


> It's my understanding that the options for upgrading the internal drive are essentially the same for the HD and S3, but the HD requires an approved external drive whereas you have lots more external options with the S3. Is that basically correct?


Yes and no. Currently Series 3s with the latest software, v9.2.x will accept most eSATA drives using P&P. The TiVo HD will only accept the one approved eSATA drive using P&P.

If you use WinMFS to upgrade the internal drive on either the TiVo HD or Series 3 you can no longer add an eSATA drive via P&P. However there are a few more steps that can be followed during the upgrade process that will allow you to add most eSATA drives to either model. Full directions can be found here:

http://www.mfslive.org


----------



## richsadams

fred2 said:


> PS: Rich or others.... I am seeing reference to Firmware/software as 9.2axxxx - my recent upgrade does not have an alphabetic in the release which I thought was appropriate?????)


 So your System Info screen shows 9.2-01-2648, or something of that nature?

There seem to be a couple of recent iterations downloading today. We (and all but one other that I have seen) received 9.2a today. That was an upgrade from v9.2.j. I did see another listed as 9.2a-B1.

Historically any version that included a letter was generally a trial, but according to Pony, this is a final.


----------



## richsadams

As noted in my post on another thread, we just received v9.2a and everything is working fine. Our eSATA drive continues to be recognized as usual. Phew!


----------



## robingo88

richsadams said:


> Thanks for that...but  Are you saying that yesterday after an upgrade your System Info screen listed your software version as 9.2a-B1-01-2-648, but today you rebooted and it now reads 9.1a-01-2-648?! Are you sure?
> 
> Not doubting you but AFAIK there's never been an occasion for software to go backwards. If so...you're headed for the TiVo Record Book!


nah... i'm an idjit hoo kant tyep... 

it went from 9.2a-B1-01-2-648 to 9.2a-01-2-648 (lost the B1)

cheers!
r


----------



## richsadams

robingo88 said:


> nah... i'm an idjit hoo kant tyep...
> 
> it went from 9.2a-B1-01-2-648 to 9.2a-01-2-648 (lost the B1)
> 
> cheers!
> r


Ohhhhh. That makes perfect sense then. Sorry...no place in the record books for you today. 










Although Yosemite Sam would be proud...you silly Idjit!


----------



## chazas

I just bought the Antec enclosure, the WD 1 TB drive, and the SIIG cable. I haven't hooked it up to my S3 yet - but the SIIG cable is extremely loose in the Antec, the male connector is just too long for the female end in the Antec, while the supplied eSATA cable fits very snugly. Seems like the opposite problem some people have. It's making me nervous to hook things up.

Any suggestions?


----------



## kohi

richsadams said:


> If you have an eSATA drive connected to your S3 and receive the latest upgrade, v9.2.a, can you please post a quick :up: or :down: if your drive continues to work?


Just received v9.2a and the eSata appears to be functioning same as before the upgrade. 

[email protected] - Antec enclosure with Seagate DB35 750mb


----------



## richsadams

chazas said:


> I just bought the Antec enclosure, the WD 1 TB drive, and the SIIG cable. I haven't hooked it up to my S3 yet - but the SIIG cable is extremely loose in the Antec, the male connector is just too long for the female end in the Antec, while the supplied eSATA cable fits very snugly. Seems like the opposite problem some people have. It's making me nervous to hook things up.
> 
> Any suggestions?


Hmmm...I think this is the first time we've heard that the SIIG cables are loose in any manner.

We're still using the cable that came with the MX-1 and it's been fine. (We have one of the SIIG cables in a drawer JIC.) I haven't seen any complaints about the MX-1 cables for a while now...perhaps they just ran through a bad batch? The complaints started about the time the enclosures became super popular; going on back order. They may have made a deal with the devil to get some more on the street...hard to say. If you just received it the cable might be a very good one. Everything else I've ever gotten from Antec has been first-rate. After they heard about the earlier problems I'd think they would have changed to a better manufacturer.

Me? I'd just use the supplied cable. After setting everything up and married I'd try wiggling the cable around a bit to see if you get the error screen from TiVo. If you do you can always pop the other one in.

Sounds like a sweet setup. Let us know how it goes.


----------



## richsadams

kohi said:


> Just received v9.2a and the eSata appears to be functioning same as before the upgrade.
> 
> [email protected] - Antec enclosure with Seagate DB35 750mb


Excellent! :up:


----------



## George Cifranci

Ditto here as well. I have a Series 3 with an upgraded internal 750GB and a MFSLive Tools added 750GB Antec MX-1 eSata and after 9.2a it is still working fine.


----------



## chazas

richsadams said:


> Me? I'd just use the supplied cable. After setting everything up and married I'd try wiggling the cable around a bit to see if you get the error screen from TiVo. If you do you can always pop the other one in.
> 
> Sounds like a sweet setup. Let us know how it goes.


I did and it seems to be working. The supplied cable is nice and tight; the SIIG connector is both too long and too loose. Very odd.

The only problem I have is noise. The Antec is quite buzzy. I think it's probably the fan, it doesn't sound like the hard drive, the noise is too high-pitched and constant. For now I put it in a cabinet below my TiVo. Is this common?

If not I may try to get buy.com to cross-ship me a new one. I'm assuming TiVo would recognize it as the same drive even if in a different enclosure, true?


----------



## nuttzy06

I woke up this morning to see that the latest TiVo upgrade now officially supports expansion! I never got around to upgrading mine. How are people that had taken on the homegrown workaround faring with the new update? I have all the pieces I just need to hook them up 

Thanks!
-Nuttzy


----------



## rrg

The instructions at mfslive.org describe using SATA-to-USB adapters to connect your SATA drives to the PC in order to perform the upgrades.

Is it actually necessary to use such adapters if your SATA drive enclosures also have USB connections? Can you just connect those enclosures directly via USB?

I'm planning to upgrade a new (250GB) Series 3 to a configuration with an internal 1TB drive and an external 1TB drive. From the mfslive instructions it looks like I can do this all in one go, with a single command, if I connect all three drives at the same time. I don't have three SATA-to-USB adapters on hand (only two), but I do have three SATA/USB enclosures.

I expect it's not a big deal because I can just do it in two passes if necessary (upgrade the internal drive first, and then marry the second drive).


----------



## JonHB

richsadams said:


> The approved device is the WD My DVR Expander, WDG1S5000. If you have the WDG1SU5000, that is the My Book Premium ES Edition and it is _not _ the approved device and will not work via P&P with the TiVo HD. Unfortunately TiVo HD's will recognize any drive that you attach to them, but they will not allow it to work.
> 
> As you mentioned, it can be added with the WinMFS program though.


Well, that answered that question! Note to others....make sure you get a "My DVR" and not a "My Book" expansion drive. That one little character in the model number makes a huge difference.  It's all good though, I still need an external drive for PC backups, so I'll just go get the "My DVR" one for the Tivo.

Thanks for the help.


----------



## richsadams

chazas said:


> I did and it seems to be working. The supplied cable is nice and tight; the SIIG connector is both too long and too loose. Very odd.
> 
> The only problem I have is noise. The Antec is quite buzzy. I think it's probably the fan, it doesn't sound like the hard drive, the noise is too high-pitched and constant. For now I put it in a cabinet below my TiVo. Is this common?
> 
> If not I may try to get buy.com to cross-ship me a new one. I'm assuming TiVo would recognize it as the same drive even if in a different enclosure, true?


IIRC our MX-1 fan was a bit noisy too. I think I remember tapping on it while the drive was out on my desk and it seemed to quiet it down. Maybe it just needed seating or something. It's whisper quiet now and like yours sits in a cabinet, but on a shelf above our S3.

I'm also using the little stand that came with the MX-1 so it sits vertically. I found that if I slide it into the stand and then pull it up just a bit, away from the bottom, that it doesn't transmit any of the drive or fan hum to the shelf...very quiet that way.

The enclosures are transparent to TiVo so no problem if you have to swap it out. Just unplug TiVo first, unplug the eSATA drive, disconnect it, pop your current drive into the new enclosure, connect it to TiVo, power it up and then plug TiVo back in.


----------



## richsadams

nuttzy06 said:


> I woke up this morning to see that the latest TiVo upgrade now officially supports expansion! I never got around to upgrading mine. How are people that had taken on the homegrown workaround faring with the new update? I have all the pieces I just need to hook them up
> 
> Thanks!
> -Nuttzy


Our eSATA drive and everyone else's that have reported in (with one odd exception) are still working fine after the latest update.


----------



## richsadams

rrg said:


> The instructions at mfslive.org describe using SATA-to-USB adapters to connect your SATA drives to the PC in order to perform the upgrades.
> 
> Is it actually necessary to use such adapters if your SATA drive enclosures also have USB connections? Can you just connect those enclosures directly via USB?


I am almost positive that you have to employ the SATA connectors, ideally while the drive is not in the enclosure. IIRC it won't work using the USB connections. You might want to pose the question on the MFSLive forum to be sure.


----------



## rrg

richsadams said:


> I am almost positive that you have to employ the SATA connectors, ideally while the drive is not in the enclosure. IIRC it won't work using the USB connections. You might want to pose the question on the MFSLive forum to be sure.


 I will (have to register there first), but this raises the question: how do I power the drive (for the duration of the upgrade) if not via a separate enclosure?

I guess power is supplied via the SATA-to-USB adapter, but does that mean the bare drive is sitting there on the table, forlorn and enclosure-less, during the whole upgrade process?


----------



## JonHB

richsadams said:


> I am almost positive that you have to employ the SATA connectors, ideally while the drive is not in the enclosure. IIRC it won't work using the USB connections. You might want to pose the question on the MFSLive forum to be sure.


I had read on the MFS site that the USB will work fine. After all, many folks are buying external USB/SATA adapters just for doing the upgrades.


----------



## richsadams

rrg said:


> I guess power is supplied via the SATA-to-USB adapter, but does that mean the bare drive is sitting there on the table, forlorn and enclosure-less, during the whole upgrade process?


Yes, the USB to SATA adapter, at least the one I have and the others I've seen, have their own power supply as well as a power adapter you should be able to use with your PC by using an extra lead from the PC's supply or disconnect one from a CD ROM drive, etc.

If you feel badly for your naked drive, I suppose you could put a mouse pad over it or something.


----------



## richsadams

JonHB said:


> I had read on the MFS site that the USB will work fine. After all, many folks are buying external USB/SATA adapters just for doing the upgrades.


Okay, I haven't looked at it recently. I guess the only drawback would be the slow USB transfer rate as opposed to SATA.


----------



## rrg

richsadams said:


> Okay, I haven't looked at it recently. I guess the only drawback would be the slow USB transfer rate as opposed to SATA.


But in both cases (a SATA enclosure that includes a USB connection, versus a separate USB-to-SATA adapter) we're using USB to connect to the PC, so shouldn't it be pretty much the same wrt performance?


----------



## richsadams

rrg said:


> But in both cases (a SATA enclosure that includes a USB connection, versus a separate USB-to-SATA adapter) we're using USB to connect to the PC, so shouldn't it be pretty much the same wrt performance?


That would be true. USB is just considerably slower than SATA is all. (USB 2.0: 480 Mbps and SATA up to 3000Mbps)

Let us know how it goes. :up:


----------



## S3-2501

richsadams said:


> If you go back to the original Series3 eSATA Drive Expansion in 8.x: FAQ + Discussion thread you'll see that the Free Agent Pro drives are not recommended as expansion drives for TiVo (#36). Numerous posts indicated immediate problems...exactly like you're experiencing...or other problems later down the line due to overheating, etc. One of the main issues were the eSATA cables and the connections on the FAP drive causing problems. That said, there are people using them, but again many simply didn't work.
> 
> My suggestion would be to return the drive and purchase the "approved" Western Digital My DVR Expander Hard Drive  from TiVo, one of the recommended all-in-one expansion drives or a bare drive and enclosure combo such as the Seagate DB35 7200.3 series and Antec MX-1 enclosure.
> 
> All that said, there has been one report of an eSATA drive failing after the latest software upgrade, v9.2.a, was installed, but we're waiting for more feedback to see if it is in fact a problem.


I've been using a FreeAgent Pro 750 since shortly after the original kickstart code was discovered with no major problems. I'm using a SIIG eSATA cable and keep the drive out in the open next to the S3.

After upgrading to the new 9.2 software, the drive is identified as "Seagate FreeAgent Pro 3.AFK" under the External Storage field on the System Information screen.

The only annoyance I've had with the drive is that the setting to turn off the drive's orange lights does not stick after a power outage. With the light on. the drive seems subjectively much warmer than with it turned off. As a result I go through the somewhat inconvenient process of turning the lights off using a PC after a power outage. Fortunately power outages are rare in my area, and it's a small inconvenience I'll gladly put up with for a sub-$200 750GB external storage solution for my S3.

So the bottom line IMHO is that while there have been many reports of various problems, the FAP may still be worth a shot if you can get one at a good price at a local store with a good return policy.


----------



## richsadams

S3-2501 said:


> I've been using a FreeAgent Pro 750 since shortly after the original kickstart code was discovered with no major problems. I'm using a SIIG eSATA cable and keep the drive out in the open next to the S3.
> 
> After upgrading to the new 9.2 software, the drive is identified as "Seagate FreeAgent Pro 3.AFK" under the External Storage field on the System Information screen.
> 
> The only annoyance I've had with the drive is that the setting to turn off the drive's orange lights does not stick after a power outage. With the light on. the drive seems subjectively much warmer than with it turned off. As a result I go through the somewhat inconvenient process of turning the lights off using a PC after a power outage. Fortunately power outages are rare in my area, and it's a small inconvenience I'll gladly put up with for a sub-$200 750GB external storage solution for my S3.
> 
> So the bottom line IMHO is that while there have been many reports of various problems, the FAP may still be worth a shot if you can get one at a good price at a local store with a good return policy.


Sounds good...and don't get me wrong, I know there are a number in service out there; humming along nicely.

It's just that there were so many reports of issues along the way that for anyone that doesnt already have one, I'd probably still steer clear of them. But as you point out, you can get a pretty good sized drive for a decent price sometimes.


----------



## Canoehead

When setting up something like the Antex MX-1, you can use the USB connection to the PC when running the WinMFS process. I don't think this worked under linux because of lack of USB support, but don't take that as gospel.

At any rate, when I added the external to my already internally upgraded S3 I used my laptop, and connected the new drive via the USB connection on the Antec, and I left the existing drive in the S3 case, using the Sabrent USB-SATA adaptor with its power supply.


----------



## Fofer

Canoehead said:


> At any rate, when I added the external to my already internally upgraded S3 I used my laptop, and connected the new drive via the USB connection on the Antec, and I left the existing drive in the S3 case, using the Sabrent USB-SATA adaptor with its power supply.


This is really good to know! I was expecting to need a desktop PC for the marrying procedure. Looks like I can do it with a laptop and a USB-SATA adapter after all. Was it this one?

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/skusearch.hmx?SCriteria=AA48710&CartID=done&nextloc=

And, along these lines... would *any* USB-SATA adapter do the trick?


----------



## stretch35

anybody have to keep resetting about once a day the remote address code for tivo hd..I run series 3 and hd side by side I don't know if it 9.2a from 9.2j or what but I think I've gone thru the remote setup 5 times in 3 days


----------



## MrHat

I hope this hasnt been asked already....are my current recordings safe when a esata device is added? I read you basically loose everything if its removed....what happens when you plug it in....besides the obvious increases


----------



## bkdtv

MrHat said:


> I hope this hasnt been asked already....are my current recordings safe when a esata device is added? I read you basically loose everything if its removed....what happens when you plug it in....besides the obvious increases


Your current recordings are safe.

Be sure to check the first post for answers to other common questions.


----------



## srcohen

I have a FAP750 with S3. Worked fine after 9.2 update. But then had to do a restart and now it will not. It appears I have lost everything on the drive. Heelp!


----------



## richsadams

srcohen said:


> I have a FAP750 with S3. Worked fine after 9.2 update. But then had to do a restart and now it will not. It appears I have lost everything on the drive. Heelp!


About the only thing you can do is unplug TiVo, unplug or turn off your eSATA drive, check the eSATA cable connections to make sure they are snug on both ends, power up your eSATA drive and plug TiVo back in.

If that doesn't work, you could try using TiVo's kickstart diagnostic programs to see if it will repair itself, but I've only seen that work with an eSATA drive a couple of times, and not with a FAP AFAIK.

If all else fails you'll get the divorce screen and there's not much else to do but divorce it. Be sure to divorce it properly or you'll have a heck of a time trying to marry a new drive later.

Best of luck!


----------



## MrHat

bkdtv said:


> Your current recordings are safe.


Thanks BKDTV....I did read it...apparently i missed #11...I saw it this time


----------



## HSW

Did not see this question asked: If I marry the ESATA drive to a previously upgraded Tivo using MFS Toos, will all season passes and recorded shows remain? Thanks.


----------



## jerryv-1

I have a S3 running 9.2, just wanted to verify that this is as simple as it seems. 

All I need to do is disconnect my existing TIVO drive from its existing connections in the TIVO box and then attach it AND the WD drive to separate USB ports (using USB to SATA adapters) on my Vista machine and then run WinMFS? Then attach the TIVO drives to my TIVO and then the WD drive? Correct?

Thanks, jerryv


----------



## titleist017

Hey there, I have a WD My Book Essential 320gb hard drive and I was wondering if it needs to be a "special" hard drive or do I just need to get an esata cable? Does the cable have a regular usb end for the hard drive or are there adapters out there? Thank you so much!!

Edit: Oh, I have the Series 3 HD. I read on the first page that series 3 hd cannot use non verified hd's. But that was oct so I was wondering if it was different.


----------



## bkdtv

titleist017 said:


> Edit: Oh, I have the Series 3 HD. I read on the first page that series 3 hd cannot use non verified hd's. But that was oct so I was wondering if it was different.


Where did you read that?

As indicated in FAQ #3, the Series3 will work with "Non Verified" eSATA drives. It will not work with USB hard drives.

As per FAQ #16, USB drives are not supported. You cannot use a USB -> eSATA adapter.


----------



## bkdtv

jerryv said:


> I have a S3 running 9.2, just wanted to verify that this is as simple as it seems.
> 
> All I need to do is disconnect my existing TIVO drive from its existing connections in the TIVO box and then attach it AND the WD drive to separate USB ports (using USB to SATA adapters) on my Vista machine and then run WinMFS? Then attach the TIVO drives to my TIVO and then the WD drive? Correct?


That is unnecessary if (1) you have a Series3 (2) you are still using the original internal drive.

The only time you ever have to use a PC is if (1) you previously upgraded your TiVO's internal drive or (2) you have a TivoHD -- not a Series3 -- and want to use a Non Verified drive.

If your TiVo Series3 still has the original drive inside, then just plug an eSATA drive into your TiVo with the appropriate cable. No PC is necessary.


----------



## titleist017

bkdtv said:


> Where did you read that?
> 
> As indicated in FAQ #3, the Series3 will work with "Non Verified" eSATA drives. It will not work with USB hard drives.
> 
> As per FAQ #16, USB drives are not supported. You cannot use a USB -> eSATA adapter.


Ah, thanks for replying. I didn't know it had to be "esata" drives, I figured USB hard drives would work. Guess not :/

Can u get some of these drives for $100-200? Hope so.


----------



## jerryv-1

bkdtv said:


> That is unnecessary if (1) you have a Series3 (2) you are still using the original internal drive.
> 
> The only time you ever have to use a PC is if (1) you previously upgraded your TiVO's internal drive or (2) you have a TivoHD -- not a Series3 -- and want to use a Non Verified drive.
> 
> If your TiVo Series3 still has the original drive inside, then just plug an eSATA drive into your TiVo with the appropriate cable. No PC is necessary.


Sorry I should have clarified---I have an upgraded HD in my TIVO.


----------



## bkdtv

titleist017 said:


> Ah, thanks for replying. I didn't know it had to be "esata" drives, I figured USB hard drives would work. Guess not :/
> 
> Can u get some of these drives for $100-200? Hope so.


The "Tivo Verified" Western Digital DVR Expander (500Gb) sells for $199.



jerryv said:


> Sorry I should have clarified---I have an upgraded HD in my TIVO.


Then your previous post was correct.


----------



## S3-2501

srcohen said:


> I have a FAP750 with S3. Worked fine after 9.2 update. But then had to do a restart and now it will not. It appears I have lost everything on the drive. Heelp!


Do you mean that the recordings have disappeared, or did you get an error screen from the TiVo about the drive being disconnected?

If it's the latter, here's something to try. Once after I connected the FAP to my notebook to change the drive's light setting I got the drive missing screen when I reconnected power to the s3. I figured out that the drive spun down and turned off when I unplugged the PC's usb cable, but it did not spin up again when I plugged the S3 back into the wall.

To solve this, I found that in this unique case I had to use the FAP's power switch manually to spin the drive back up, then re apply power to the S3. The FAP was so quiet I had to put my ear next to it to make sure it was up and running. The drive was then detected and everything was intact.

I hope this helps...


----------



## Canoehead

Fofer said:


> This is really good to know! I was expecting to need a desktop PC for the marrying procedure. Looks like I can do it with a laptop and a USB-SATA adapter after all. Was it this one?
> 
> http://www.mwave.com/mwave/skusearch.hmx?SCriteria=AA48710&CartID=done&nextloc=
> 
> And, along these lines... would *any* USB-SATA adapter do the trick?


Pretty much any good one, so long as it has a power supply. Remember, a 2.5" can probably pull enough juice off the USB Plug to run itself, but a 3.5" drive WILL need an external A/C converted power source - or if using a desktop PC, use an internal HDD power cable.

Remember, first step should always be a truncated backup


----------



## 1283

Canoehead said:


> Remember, first step should always be a truncated backup


And the second step is to *test* the backup. My first backups did NOT work, and there were no error messages.


----------



## jagz27

Does anybody know what stores besides Best Buy and the TiVo website are carrying the DVR Expander? It is out of stock at both of those places. I checked the B&M BestBuy, and it was out there too.


----------



## richsadams

jagz27 said:


> Does anybody know what stores besides Best Buy and the TiVo website are carrying the DVR Expander? It is out of stock at both of those places. I checked the B&M BestBuy, and it was out there too.


TiVo has an exclusive w/BB to sell the WD DVR Expander at retail. WD was selling it directly, but they've stopped doing that now. You could try contacting WD to see if they'll accommodate your request.

It was on backorder from TiVo and BB right after it came out and then was back in stock within a few days.


----------



## danschn

Any guesses/rumors/inside info on when a 1 TB "officially supported" ESATA drive becomes available?


----------



## bkdtv

danschn said:


> Any guesses/rumors/inside info on when a 1 TB "officially supported" ESATA drive becomes available?


I was told by WD that they would have such a product by this time next year.


----------



## pilotbob

I didn't see this answered in the FAQ. I have a TivoHD with the "verified" WD Expander 500Gb drive using the built-in 9.2 support.

If I swap out the internal drive on the TivoHD will the built-in verified external drive still work? For example, I buy a drive from one of the internet Tivo upgrade drive sellers with the OS already on it. (Yes I know/assume the expander will have to be married to the new drive and I will loose all on it.) 

Or, if I use WinMFS to copy current internal drive to new internal drive... will then the external drive be married to it and still work?

Thanks,
BOb


----------



## bkdtv

pilotbob said:


> I didn't see this answered in the FAQ. I have a TivoHD with the "verified" WD Expander 500Gb drive using the built-in 9.2 support.
> 
> If I swap out the internal drive on the TivoHD will the built-in verified external drive still work? For example, I buy a drive from one of the internet Tivo upgrade drive sellers with the OS already on it. (Yes I know/assume the expander will have to be married to the new drive and I will loose all on it.)
> 
> Or, if I use WinMFS to copy current internal drive to new internal drive... will then the external drive be married to it and still work?


As per FAQ #3, the plug and play eSATA drive expansion does *not* work if you upgrade the build-in drive on the TivoHD and Series3.

You can still add an eSATA drive to an upgraded TiVo, but doing so requires the "hack" discussed in Part III, #10 of the FAQ.

Once you've added an eSATA drive, there is no way to preserve recordings on that while upgrading the internal drive. If you want to upgrade the internal drive, you've got to disconnect the eSATA drive first.


----------



## HDTiVo

Spike's guide here refers specifically to a WinMFS function that consolidates an internal+external drive to a single drive.

_Update:

As of 11/15/07, Beta 6 version, this *feature is not yet implemented*._


----------



## bkdtv

HDTiVo said:


> Spike's guide here refers specifically to a WinMFS function that consolidates an internal+external drive to a single drive.


_Edit:_

I just tried this with WinMFS and it doesn't work. WinMFS crashes as seen in the attached screenshot.


----------



## fergie8

richsadams said:


> ... Be sure to divorce it properly or you'll have a heck of a time trying to marry a new drive later.
> 
> Best of luck!


If you divorce an eSATA drive from your TiVo, can you re-marry that same drive to a different TiVo afterwards? I understand you wouldn't have access to the programming that was recorded on it while married to the first TiVo. But assuming you were willing to make that sacrifice, would that work? Or will the TiVo only marry to an eSATA drive that has never been married to a TiVo before?


----------



## bkdtv

fergie8 said:


> If you divorce an eSATA drive from your TiVo, can you re-marry that same drive to a different TiVo afterwards? I understand you wouldn't have access to the programming that was recorded on it while married to the first TiVo. But assuming you were willing to make that sacrifice, would that work?


Of course.

You can marry a drive to as many different TiVos as you want, just be aware that you will lose recordings when you move the drive from one TiVo to another.


----------



## pilotbob

bkdtv said:


> You can still add an eSATA drive to an upgraded TiVo, but doing so requires the "hack" discussed in Part III, #10 of the FAQ.


Right, so if I use WinMFS to copy my current "A" drive which is already married to the verified eSate drive to a new "A" drive, then expand... will it still be married to my current "B" drive?

Is this effectivly doing the "hack"?

BOb


----------



## bkdtv

pilotbob said:


> Right, so if I use WinMFS to copy my current "A" drive which is already married to the verified eSate drive to a new "A" drive, then expand... will it still be married to my current "B" drive?
> 
> Is this effectivly doing the "hack"?


No. You must unmarry the eSATA drive (losing any recordings) before you can expand the internal drive.

After you upgrade / expand the internal drive, you re-can remarry the eSATA drive.


----------



## 1283

bkdtv said:


> No. You must unmarry the eSATA drive (losing any recordings) before you can expand the internal drive.


Are you sure about that? In the mfstools days, you can add drive B first and add expand drive A later.


----------



## richsadams

fergie8 said:


> If you divorce an eSATA drive from your TiVo, can you re-marry that same drive to a different TiVo afterwards? I understand you wouldn't have access to the programming that was recorded on it while married to the first TiVo. But assuming you were willing to make that sacrifice, would that work? Or will the TiVo only marry to an eSATA drive that has never been married to a TiVo before?


Yep...as *bkdtv *points out, you can do whatever you want with your divorced drive...just watch out for the alimony payments. 

Each time an expansion drive is married to TiVo it formats the drive, effectively erasing anything that was on it anyway.


----------



## fergie8

richsadams said:


> Yep...as *bkdtv *points out, you can do whatever you want with your divorced drive...just watch out for the alimony payments.


At the moment, given the nagging cough from my TiVoHD, I'm a little more concerned about possibly ending up with a widowed drive rather than a divorced drive. 



> Each time an expansion drive is married to TiVo it formats the drive, effectively erasing anything that was on it anyway.


Thanks, that's the key piece of information I was looking for. I would have assumed such would be the case, however for safety reasons I generally try to avoid making assumptions.

Cheers,


----------



## gwsat

bkdtv said:


> I was told by WD that they would have such a product [a 1Tb drive, approved by TiVo] by this time next year.


Thanks a bunch! I was just checking the thread for an answer to that question and, Voila!, there it was.


----------



## jpierce237

Ok, I've found suppositions, general instructions, etc, but a blunt "Yes I made it work." was harder to find. For those looking to do this and wanting a 'for-sure' yep it works, here it is.

What I did:
Using the latest WinMFS
- Connect the Tivo Drive as the 2nd Drive (your windows root drive is your first disk) in your pc

- Connect your planned eSATA drive via eSATA, USB, or Firewire depending on what your box supports (I used the Antec MX-1 USB 2.0 & eSATA enclosure as it has a physical power switch and hard drive fan)

- Run WinMFS, seclect your Tivo drive as drive A and your eSATA drive as drive B

- Select mfsadd (A warning that you are about to write to your Tivo drive will appear, don't fear...step into the light)

It happens quickly, from there reinstall the Tivo Drive and hook up your eSATA drive, making sure it's firmly plugged in. 

My Tivo didn't want to boot up properly right away, give it some time. I had to reboot it as it appeared to be stuck on the intermidable ....just a few more minutes screen. Once I rebooted it eventually became a grey screen, one push of the Tivo button and the welcome movie started....both drives were available and all was well with the world.

I do, however, live in some fear of shutting the thing off again, time will tell if this will be a problem.

Now if I could do something about that horribly noisey Seagate ST3500630AS drive I chose to install. If you're looking for a 500GB drive to install, look elsewhere, it's noisy pretty much all the time. I put the Antec as far back into my entertainment center cabinet as I could just to muffle the noise....it's just ok now.

Hope this helps some poor soul looking for Tivo salvation. If someone wants to pick me apart for posting this, please remember that I at least took the time to report a success which may help someone else down the road.

Jim


----------



## Z06_Pilot

hi folks,

a couple of questions.

I've been out of town for two weeks. when i got back, i now have 9.2a, which I assume is the "GA" version of 9.2j?

so, I purchased two My Book 750GB WD drives(one for each of my S3's). i am using a 6' PNY eSATA cable.


following the attachment instructions, when I power on my first S3 with the My Book attached, it continues to re-boot with the "please wait-powering up" message. This happens with both drives and with both eSATA cables.

Is there a possbility that since I'm not using the "verified" Tivo 500GB mybook, that there is an incompatibility issue? I just don't see how that's possible. I assumed a My Book would work the same, regardless of storage size?

Oh, my S3's are bone stock internally. It just seems to me this eSATA connectivity is not fully baked based on the issues I have read about.

any thoughts would be appreciated.


----------



## fred22

Z06_Pilot:

It could be the cables. Just because they came with the drives does not mean that they will work. Apparently, the most reliable are the SIIG cables mentioned in the first message.

I am using a Seagate FAP and I manually trimmed some of the rubber off to expose more connector metal.


----------



## richsadams

Z06_Pilot said:


> hi folks,
> a couple of questions.
> 
> I've been out of town for two weeks. when i got back, i now have 9.2a, which I assume is the "GA" version of 9.2j?
> 
> so, I purchased two My Book 750GB WD drives(one for each of my S3's). i am using a 6' PNY eSATA cable.
> 
> following the attachment instructions, when I power on my first S3 with the My Book attached, it continues to re-boot with the "please wait-powering up" message. This happens with both drives and with both eSATA cables.
> 
> Is there a possbility that since I'm not using the "verified" Tivo 500GB mybook, that there is an incompatibility issue? I just don't see how that's possible. I assumed a My Book would work the same, regardless of storage size?
> 
> Oh, my S3's are bone stock internally. It just seems to me this eSATA connectivity is not fully baked based on the issues I have read about.
> 
> any thoughts would be appreciated.


You shouldn't have any problem connecting your expansion drives to your stock S3's via P&P. You should get a warning screen stating that the drive is not supported, but it should allow you to finish the installation.

I take it your S3's boot up fine w/o the drives attached. Are you unplugging TiVo, connecting the eSATA drive, turning the eSATA drive on and then plugging TiVo back in? Do you hear the eSATA drives spin up when you turn them on?

If all of that is true, my take on it, and this is just a WAG, is that there's a problem with the connection. It could be the eSATA cable or the actual connection point(s). Do you have snug connections on both ends? If so I think my next step would be to try another cable, perhaps one of the other recommended cables such as the SIIG CB-SA0111-S1. Everything may seem okay, but there are a number of reports of eSATA cables having problems in some shape or form.

The odds of you having two bad drives and two bad cables are remote at best. There are numerous folks using all manner of expansion drives (including me) with the latest software, v9.2a. Ours (Seagate DB35 in an MX-1 enclosure) has been working flawlessly for over six months like most others. There are posts of some drives not playing nicely, but AFAIK there aren't any reports of problems with the WD My Book drives not working on unmodified S3's.


----------



## fred22

FAP750 with a trimmed cable. Just got the 92j.xxxx version updated last night (2am feeding).

(with fingers still crossed) It is still working on my S3 as it has for months now. Today I watched shows recorded last night before the update (it was pending when I got home from work) and I allowed it to do its overnight restart. And it recorded the noon news and some other testing.


----------



## naclone

I've been running 9.2a for a few days now and have had zero issues with my FAP750. everything runs just as it has since I connected it weeks ago.


----------



## bkdtv

Z06_Pilot said:


> Is there a possbility that since I'm not using the "verified" Tivo 500GB mybook, that there is an incompatibility issue? I just don't see how that's possible. I assumed a My Book would work the same, regardless of storage size?
> 
> Oh, my S3's are bone stock internally. It just seems to me this eSATA connectivity is not fully baked based on the issues I have read about.
> 
> any thoughts would be appreciated.


As others have mentioned above, the cable is almost certainly the problem.

I know for a fact that many My Books do not include a compatible cable. Some members were able to "trim" their cables to make them compatible, while others had to order a compatible cable mentioned in the FAQ.

There is nothing "half baked" about the eSATA support in the Series3 and TivoHD. There are plenty of "half baked" PC eSATA solutions out there, which is why TiVo officially recommends only one that they know includes the right drive and cable.


----------



## TonyR

Great FAQ at the top--per usual. Thanks guys.

I just got an expander, and basically I'm thrilled with it, but I'm disappointed with the details. It seems that it is essentially a JBOD configuration with one-way migration only (except, apparently, the non-video data?). Everyone knows that JBOD is bad news--it's just the opposite of RAID--no performance increase, no redundancy, no flexibility--just easier to implement. Not only do we have to resign ourselves to losing all of our data if we want to remove the expander, but now you've got 2 points of failure: if either drive fails, we lose *all* video.

I was happy to accept those limitations for the hack, but now that this is a supported feature I was hoping that the implementation would be more sophisticated. This just seems like the old hack with a user interface added.

They could have given us a backwards migration utility, so that we could move all data off the expansion disk and back onto the original disk if we needed to in the future. I've used RAID 0 (striped) systems that had such a feature, and I'd think it would be easier to implement with JBOD.

It would have been great if the expander was added as a data drive, in addition to the original drive, so that loss of the extra drive would only lose the data on the expander drive.

We can get the flexibility I'd like if we back up all the video to our PCs, but wow--that's a lot of disk space! It would take forever also.

(I know I'm just whining. Over-all, I'm impressed with the rate at which TiVo keeps giving us new functionality, but like most tech-savy consumers I'll never be satisfied!)


----------



## richsadams

TonyR said:


> Great FAQ at the top--per usual. Thanks guys.
> 
> I just got an expander, and basically I'm thrilled with it, but I'm disappointed with the details. It seems that it is essentially a JBOD configuration with one-way migration only (except, apparently, the non-video data?). Everyone knows that JBOD is bad news--it's just the opposite of RAID--no performance increase, no redundancy, no flexibility--just easier to implement. Not only do we have to resign ourselves to losing all of our data if we want to remove the expander, but now you've got 2 points of failure: if either drive fails, we lose *all* video.
> 
> I was happy to accept those limitations for the hack, but now that this is a supported feature I was hoping that the implementation would be more sophisticated. This just seems like the old hack with a user interface added.
> 
> They could have given us a backwards migration utility, so that we could move all data off the expansion disk and back onto the original disk if we needed to in the future. I've used RAID 0 (striped) systems that had such a feature, and I'd think it would be easier to implement with JBOD.
> 
> It would have been great if the expander was added as a data drive, in addition to the original drive, so that loss of the extra drive would only lose the data on the expander drive.
> 
> We can get the flexibility I'd like if we back up all the video to our PCs, but wow--that's a lot of disk space! It would take forever also.
> 
> (I know I'm just whining. Over-all, I'm impressed with the rate at which TiVo keeps giving us new functionality, but like most tech-savy consumers I'll never be satisfied!)


Others can expound on all of the details, but the basic/primary reason for the expansion architecture being what it is today was to ensure compliance with various laws and regulations forced on TiVo by several industries and regulatory authorities.

That's also why it's taken them so long to get it into the wild. There are just too many parties with selfish interests (read: greedy) involved in what should have been a simple feature.

I'm sure had TiVo had their way it would have been a much different result, more flexible and robust...along the lines you suggest.

*EDIT*: Earlier I stated that there was a method to move everything from the eSATA and internal HDD's to a single internal drive using WinMFS and the element of the program required to do that is there, but on further investigation it is not currently active.


----------



## foamy909

I just wanted to thank everyone here for all their input, from the kickstart method to plug-n-play under 9.2a. I finally took the plunge and added a 500GB DB-35 with an MX-1 and SIIG cable to my Series 3 and it was even easier than I expected. I paid a bit more than what I would have for the sanctioned WD drive, but the info here makes me feel confident it was the right choice.

thanks again!:up:


----------



## steinercat

Great Post! and extremely useful information.

As a first time Tivo user, though not at all unfamiliar with tinkering with computer parts, I've dediced to go ahead and simply get the WD Expander as an upgrade. I suppose I just want to enjoy the Tivo experience and try to heal some scars left by my SA8300HD (Cox Las Vegas) Or at least until...

1. 90 day unit warranty runs out.
2. 1TB HD kits decrease in price and Samsung or WD come out with quieter 1TB drives

I know an upgrade is imminent though. 

Again..great post and incredibly useful information!

*Only thing is, the Expander is nowhere in site online or in my area.


----------



## HDTiVo

HDTiVo said:


> Spike's guide here refers specifically to a WinMFS function that consolidates an internal+external drive to a single drive.


I mentioned this earlier and I see bkdtv and rich investigated further with spike and the *feature has not yet been implemented*.

Another thing I discovered is that a *THD drive can only expand once *due to a bug. Spike says he thinks he found the bug and if so the next release (beta 7?) will contain the fix.


----------



## richsadams

HDTiVo said:


> I mentioned this earlier and I see bkdtv and rich investigated further with spike and the *feature has not yet been implemented*.


Turns out that is in fact true (I corrected my earlier post). Hopefully Spike will have some time to finalize that ability soon.


----------



## HDTiVo

richsadams said:


> Turns out that is in fact true (I corrected my earlier post). Hopefully Spike will have some time to finalize that ability soon.


He just responded today that the 2 to 1 consolidation function will take some time, but the bug fix to allow multiple drive expansions (MFSadds) on the THD will be out "soon."

http://mfslive.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2497#2497


----------



## richsadams

HDTiVo said:


> He just responded today that the 2 to 1 consolidation function will take some time, but the bug fix to allow multiple drive expansions (MFSadds) on the THD will be out "soon."
> 
> http://mfslive.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2497#2497


Cool. Good news/bad news, but a fix is in the works.

I am amazed how much time and effort he puts into all of this...for free as far as I can see (other than some website ad income). His dedication is admirable. :up: (A Wayne's World "We're not worthy" chant comes to mind )


----------



## lrhorer

TonyR said:


> Not only do we have to resign ourselves to losing all of our data if we want to remove the expander, but now you've got 2 points of failure: if either drive fails, we lose *all* video.


This isn't quite true. It's true if one loses the primary drive, all is lost. If one loses the secondary drive, one may not lose all the videos. First of all, any videos recorded before the secondary was added will still be fine. Secondly, I could be mistaken but I seem to recall someone saying they had done some testing and not all the videos recorded after the expansion were lost. All that said, there is a good chance one will lose all the recordings if the external drive fails. None of the settings, wishlists, season passes, etc are lost.



TonyR said:


> I was happy to accept those limitations for the hack, but now that this is a supported feature I was hoping that the implementation would be more sophisticated. This just seems like the old hack with a user interface added.


Well, it's more than that. A fully journalled file system allows for the maximum utilization of the added drive space. To be sure, it is less secure, but any other solution must allocate some amount of drive space for recovery.



TonyR said:


> They could have given us a backwards migration utility, so that we could move all data off the expansion disk and back onto the original disk if we needed to in the future.


Well, only if the amount used on the expansion drive is less than the free space on the primary. Otherwise, something's got to get trashed. Such a feature could be at least somewhat useful, however. Have you suggested it over on TiVo Suggestion Avenue?

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=6



TonyR said:


> It would have been great if the expander was added as a data drive, in addition to the original drive, so that loss of the extra drive would only lose the data on the expander drive.


This is the case. While the MFS file syste, is journalled, I don't think it is JBOD, per se. I'm not familiar enough with JBOD to say for certain, but the extra drive just has additional MFS partitions, and the TiVo writes semi-simultaneously to both drives. That's why losing the secondary drive munges many of the videos.



TonyR said:


> We can get the flexibility I'd like if we back up all the video to our PCs, but wow--that's a lot of disk space!


Well, since the 2T limit on the Series III is too small for my purposes, that's what I'm doing anyway.



TonyR said:


> It would take forever also.


Since TTG is batch queued and takes place in the background, who cares?


----------



## lrhorer

richsadams said:


> Others can expound on all of the details, but the basic/primary reason for the expansion architecture being what it is today was to ensure compliance with various laws and regulations forced on TiVo by several industries and regulatory authorities.


Actually, I suspect the main reason was because TiVo had already developed the MFS file system and saw no reason to reinvent the wheel. The MFS file system on the Series III is fundamentally the same as that on the Series I. Apparently after they deployed the Series III they changed their mind somewhat, however. The TiVo HD uses a 64 bit MFS file system.



richsadams said:


> I'm sure had TiVo had their way it would have been a much different result, more flexible and robust...along the lines you suggest.


Oh, I doubt that. This is only a DVR, after all, not a file server for a bank. Modern hard drives are so reliable and last so long that a recreational solution which employs no redundancy is not a bad idea. I'm an all out belt-and-suspenders kind of guy, but in this case I think the elimination of fault tolerance with the benefits of maximizing storage and lowering cost is the right decision.


----------



## richsadams

lrhorer said:


> Actually, I suspect the main reason was because TiVo had already developed the MFS file system and saw no reason to reinvent the wheel. The MFS file system on the Series III is fundamentally the same as that on the Series I. Apparently after they deployed the Series III they changed their mind somewhat, however. The TiVo HD uses a 64 bit MFS file system.


It makes sense that they'd use the same format; I'd be surprised if they didn't. However if that were the end of the story logic would dictate that the eSATA feature should have been good to go from day one.

IIRC there were more than a few stories about TiVo having to get approval/certification from Cable Labs before the MRV, TTG and eSATA options could be implemented; that's the reason behind it being held up for almost a year.



lrhorer said:


> Oh, I doubt that. This is only a DVR, after all, not a file server for a bank. Modern hard drives are so reliable and last so long that a recreational solution which employs no redundancy is not a bad idea. I'm an all out belt-and-suspenders kind of guy, but in this case I think the elimination of fault tolerance with the benefits of maximizing storage and lowering cost is the right decision.


 Agreed, redundancy wouldn't make sense in this case. I was speaking to the OP's point about having more than what is essentially an extended single HDD. Things such as having recordings domiciled on one or the other drive to avoid the loss of all recordings, the ability to move external drives from one machine to another, etc. But you're right; the existing file system doesn't lend itself to that sort of flexibility.


----------



## Conniko

I got the message from TiVo re: the WD expander on 11/05. It was out of stock at TiVo and Best Buy, and Western Digital on 11/06. Since WD had not replied to my email request for availability info I phoned WD. I was told they were not currently manufacturing it, and it was uncertain whether they would be manufacturing it in the future. Seems strange since TiVo just rolled out 9.2 and it is obviously a popular item. Has anyone found any other info>


----------



## back as jac

problem with mfsadd: after i used this program to marry the internal tivo drive that came with my tivo hd and a western digital 500gb premium esata drive, the tivo is giving me an error message saying:

the tivo has encountered a serious problem. this may take 3 hours to fix. 

the tivo recognized my drive as wd es 500gb... before i married them, it just wouldn't let me use it plug and play. what i'm trying to say is i don't think its a problem with the cable or the external drive itself. also the tivo gives me a message saying i need to plug in my external drive after i restarted it without it plugged in so i'm pretty sure the marriage worked. anyone else have this issue? does it take the tivo 3 hours to format my external drive? i read this entire thread and didnt see anything.


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## bkdtv

back as jac said:


> problem with mfsadd: after i used this program to marry the internal tivo drive that came with my tivo hd and a western digital 500gb premium esata drive, the tivo is giving me an error message saying:
> 
> the tivo has encountered a serious problem. this may take 3 hours to fix.
> 
> the tivo recognized my drive as wd es 500gb... before i married them, it just wouldn't let me use it plug and play. what i'm trying to say is i don't think its a problem with the cable or the external drive itself. also the tivo gives me a message saying i need to plug in my external drive after i restarted it without it plugged in so i'm pretty sure the marriage worked. anyone else have this issue? does it take the tivo 3 hours to format my external drive? i read this entire thread and didnt see anything.


Just let the TiVo fix the problem.

That said, be aware that some Western Digital My Book drives for PCs include an eSATA cable that is not compatible with the Tivo. Drive corruption and lost recordings can result from the use of that cable.

That's why the FAQ recommends you order your own cable if you use a retail solution other than the My DVR Expander.


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## bkdtv

Conniko said:


> I got the message from TiVo re: the WD expander on 11/05. It was out of stock at TiVo and Best Buy, and Western Digital on 11/06. Since WD had not replied to my email request for availability info I phoned WD. I was told they were not currently manufacturing it, and it was uncertain whether they would be manufacturing it in the future. Seems strange since TiVo just rolled out 9.2 and it is obviously a popular item. Has anyone found any other info>


Yes, this information is incorrect.

Their allocations are all going to TiVo and Best Buy (for now), and a result, their system shows that they do not expect to receive any more units at WDC.COM. Some reps misinterpret that to mean the product is discontinued.

The BBs in my area appear to receive about one shipment of new drives per week. They got some in Friday before last but they sold out again by Wednesday.


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## back as jac

bkdtv said:


> Just let the TiVo fix the problem.
> 
> That said, be aware that some Western Digital My Book drives for PCs include an eSATA cable that is not compatible with the Tivo. Drive corruption and lost recordings can result from the use of that cable.
> 
> That's why the FAQ recommends you order your own cable if you use a retail solution other than the My DVR Expander.


thanks for the response. yea, i'm gonna let it fix it, just getting nervous is all. also, i'm pretty sure the cable is fine because the tivo recognized the drive when i just plugged it in. it just said 'this drive is not able to be used' as plug and play.


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## bkdtv

back as jac said:


> thanks for the response. yea, i'm gonna let it fix it, just getting nervous is all. also, i'm pretty sure the cable is fine because the tivo recognized the drive when i just plugged it in. it just said 'this drive is not able to be used' as plug and play.


Well, the TiVo will usually recognize the presence of a drive with an inadequate cable. It just won't work reliably.


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## Knightlymuse

I just thought I would post the hardware info here to add to the list of stuff that works.

I have a TivoHD that was upgraded to the 9.2a version of the software.
- I'm using an ICY DOCK MB559US-1SMB 3.5" Mirror Black USB 2.0 & eSATA External Enclosure (The mirror black finish looks good with tivo but does show fingerprints)
- I used the eSATA cable that came with the enclosure.
- For the drive I'm using the Seagate ST3500631NS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

Personal observations:
The case is very slick, it is aluminum and the entire case acts as a heat sync. This is good as it does not have a built in fan. The only noise you hear is the drive itself will click (quietly) when the head changes tracks. You can hear it if you hit a quiet spot in a show (but honestly how often does that happen.  ) There is no audible whine to the drive that I can hear.

I went with a Seagate drive because I've had good luck with them in the past. I've used several of them in computers running 24/7/365 and they all are still working - some +5 years. I can't say the same for the deskstars, WD and Maxtors I've used but this is a personal choice. The AV rated drives were just to expensive for what you get. Results may vary, go with whatever you like.

The winmsf software worked great and the entire process only took a few minutes. Removing the drive out of Tivo was easy the drive was unobstructed and there were no warranty stickers to break. However with all that said if I had to do it over I would just go with a supported solution. The cost is not much more than what I spent, it is a plug-n-play option and you don't need to risk screwing up your system. The only reason to go custom would be if you wanted to add more than 500 MB to your system.

Keep up the good work guys, you make a great utility.


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## rdtex

I have 2 series3 tivos and want to make a backup drive just of the os only in case I ever need to replace a failed drive. Using the WinMFS program will I need to make a backup of each series3's drive or can I make a backup of the os that could be used in either series3?

I wasn't sure after reading the instructions. Sounds like the backup you make can only be used in the exact machine, not another same series3.


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## bkdtv

rdtex said:


> I have 2 series3 tivos and want to make a backup drive just of the os only in case I ever need to replace a failed drive. Using the WinMFS program will I need to make a backup of each series3's drive or can I make a backup of the os that could be used in either series3?


The truncated backup includes some settings specific to that Series3.

You can can restore that backup image to either Series3, but you will need to perform a clear and delete after you restore the image to the other box. That clear and delete may require your cable company to reactivate your CableCards.


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## rdtex

bkdtv said:


> The truncated backup includes some settings specific to that Series3.
> 
> You can can restore that backup image to either Series3, but you will need to perform a clear and delete after you restore the image to the other box. That clear and delete may require your cable company to reactivate your CableCards.


Thanks for your reply. I'm not using cable cards so I guess all I would have to do is clear & delete and setup the channels and other custom settings?

I just ordered a usb to sata adapter kit from ebay so I can make it as simple as possible. I will feel better knowing I have a backup so I can quickly swap a failed drive if either series3 drives fail.


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## bkdtv

rdtex said:


> Thanks for your reply. I'm not using cable cards so I guess all I would have to do is clear & delete and setup the channels and other custom settings?


Correct.


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## steinercat

bkdtv said:


> Yes, this information is incorrect.
> 
> Their allocations are all going to TiVo and Best Buy (for now), and a result, their system shows that they do not expect to receive any more units at WDC.COM. Some reps misinterpret that to mean the product is discontinued.
> 
> The BBs in my area appear to receive about one shipment of new drives per week. They got some in Friday before last but they sold out again by Wednesday.


Agreed. Doesn't make sense that WD would discontinue the drive if it was selling so well. Unless there was something technically wrong with the drive.

I'm going to check oout the BB in my area today and ask.

BTW. BB Business had them in stock a few days ago (status said "In Stock"). I checked back when I got home to order and they were out of stock again.


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## bkdtv

You can check local availability at Best Buy with this link. If you intend to purchase from Best Buy, don't forget your 10% off coupon.


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## jerryv-1

I followed the link under FAQ III #10 forSATA to USB cables to marry my upgraded TIVO drive and my WD DVR Expander. I bought the product from Newegg (following the link.) They did not send me the exact brand listed (SYBA), but rather a Creative I/O product---but nonetheless, a USB 2.0 to SATA cable. The SATA connection on this cable does not fit the SATA terminal on the WD drive. 

any ideas?


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## bkdtv

jerryv said:


> I followed the link under FAQ III #10 forSATA to USB cables to marry my upgraded TIVO drive and my WD DVR Expander. I bought the product from Newegg (following the link.) They did not send me the exact brand listed (SYBA), but rather a Creative I/O product---but nonetheless, a USB 2.0 to SATA cable. The SATA connection on this cable does not fit the SATA terminal on the WD drive.


That cable fits your internal drive, but not the eSATA drive, correct?

I forgot to update that link for USB -> eSATA. The product I linked is for USB -> SATA (to connect the internal drive), but not USB -> eSATA (to connect an external drive).

Does anyone have some recommendations for a eSATA -> USB adapter?


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## jerryv-1

The cable specs for the USB to SATA cable say it supports "SATA II GenI " mass storage devises, if that helps.


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## jerryv-1

Yes, the cable fits my internal Tivo drive, but not the external WD drive.

Is there any solution that I can use right now, short of getting a new cable? My Tivo box is open and the drive is out, if possible I'd like to finish this now.

thx.


----------



## jlib

jerryv said:


> Is there any solution that I can use right now, short of getting a new cable?...


The solution is to get power to the drive somehow. Does your enclosure use cables to connect to the internal drive or does the drive sort of plug directly into a circuit board? If the former then just use the enclosure's internal power cable to the drive and then substitute the USB-to-SATA cable for the enclosure's internal SATA cable to the drive.


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## kingmob

No one may know the answer to this yet, but ...

FAQ #3 says that the plug and play expansion won't work with a previously upgraded internal drive. Currently I have a stock TiVo HD. Let's say I got the MyDVR Expander and attached it now. Later I decide to upgrade the internal drive and do so by copying the stock drive to a larger disk. Will the external drive still work?


----------



## bkdtv

jerryv said:


> Yes, the cable fits my internal Tivo drive, but not the external WD drive.
> 
> Is there any solution that I can use right now, short of getting a new cable? My Tivo box is open and the drive is out, if possible I'd like to finish this now.


Unless you disassemble your eSATA drive (which I do *not* recommend), you are going to need an SATA to eSATA cable.

The SIIG CB-SA0311-S1 SATA to eSATA cable can ordered for $12 from ProVantage.com, $8 from Buy.com, or $10 from TheNerds.net. The PPA Intl. cable from Newegg.com is also confirmed to work.

I wrote that particular FAQ question under the assumption that members would be building their own eSATA solutions and have access to the original bare drive, thereby eliminating the need for a SATA to eSATA cable. My apologizes for that oversight.

I've updated the Part III, FAQ #10 to clarify that a SATA to eSATA cable is required for those using retail eSATA solutions.


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## bkdtv

kingmob said:


> No one may know the answer to this yet, but ...
> 
> FAQ #3 says that the plug and play expansion won't work with a previously upgraded internal drive. Currently I have a stock TiVo HD. Let's say I got the MyDVR Expander and attached it now. Later I decide to upgrade the internal drive and do so by copying the stock drive to a larger disk. Will the external drive still work?


You _can't_ do that with the current version of WinMFS, but you _can_ do it with the MFSLive bootCD (more complicated). Hopefully, that capability will be added to a future version of WinMFS to simplify the process.

_Credit for this answer goes to spike2k5._


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## jerryv-1

"Turn off your computer and connect your internal SATA drive and the new external SATA drive. You can open your computer and connect both with SATA cables, or you can connect them both externally using a pair of SATA->USB adapters. If you are using a retail eSATA drive, you will also need a SATA -> eSATA cable such as the SIIG CB-SA0311-S1 (Buy.com, TheNerds.net, or ProVantage.com) or the PPA Int'l 3848 (Newegg.com)."

So to clarify, the TIVO drive gets connected to my Vista machine via SATA to USB cable. But how is the WD drive connected? What is the function of the SATA to eSATA cable? What does the WD drive get connected to?


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## jerryv-1

So am I right, there is no external connection for the WD drive via USB? I have not been able to find a eSATA to USB cable.


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## dolfer

Does anyone know if Amazon will eventually offer My DVR Expander? I can't believe they don't have it! ;( 

I have a couple hundred bucks in credits and I'm dying to use them!


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## bkdtv

jerryv said:


> So to clarify, the TIVO drive gets connected to my Vista machine via SATA to USB cable. But how is the WD drive connected? What is the function of the SATA to eSATA cable? What does the WD drive get connected to?





jerryv said:


> So am I right, there is no external connection for the WD drive via USB? I have not been able to find a eSATA to USB cable.


Correct, there is nothing except an eSATA interface on the Western Digital _My DVR Expander_.

You connect the eSATA drive internally using a SATA to eSATA cable. Or you connect it externally using a USB -> SATA adapter and SATA -> eSATA cable.


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## tmeek

Good luck expanding a Tivo HD with an external esata drive, which requires the WD My DVR model. They are not available on the WD website or on the Tivo web site or at any retail web site. The only retailer who partly claims to have them is Best Buy, but they are not available online and no store in Oregon (which I checked) has them. Good luck finding one.


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## fred22

tmeek said:


> Good luck expanding a Tivo HD with an external esata drive, which requires the WD My DVR model. They are not available on the WD website or on the Tivo web site or at any retail web site. The only retailer who partly claims to have them is Best Buy, but they are not available online and no store in Oregon (which I checked) has them. Good luck finding one.


I will suggest that Tivo (and partners) really messed up this introduction. First, they missed the Season Premiers by a month or so when people were hot to capture/store new shows and then when they do finally release the OFFICIAL device, they did not plan on their popularity. Good luck finding one soon.


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## LHMPDX

fred22 said:


> I will suggest that Tivo (and partners) really messed up this introduction. First, they missed the Season Premiers by a month or so when people were hot to capture/store new shows and then when they do finally release the OFFICIAL device, they did not plan on their popularity. Good luck finding one soon.


True, this is bad. Plus it looks like they will miss the Christmas season.

But no surprise. There was one year, maybe 2002, that there were no TiVos in the stores at Christmas.


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## keenanSR

Limiting the expansion to a drive that can not be found anywhere is a major blunder on TiVo's part. A friend of mine, who is a big-wig at one of the world's largest ad/media/marketing companies, who happens to have TiVo as a client, says this is fairly typical of Tivo. To put it bluntly, they are not the sharpest tacks around when it comes to marketing, and having available equipment to market a new feature certainly falls in that category.


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## richsadams

tmeek said:


> Good luck expanding a Tivo HD with an external esata drive, which requires the WD My DVR model. They are not available on the WD website or on the Tivo web site or at any retail web site. The only retailer who partly claims to have them is Best Buy, but they are not available online and no store in Oregon (which I checked) has them. Good luck finding one.


That is frustrating. As mentioned previously, TiVo has an exclusive with BB to sell the WD DVR Expander so there's no need to look for it anywhere but TiVo or BB.

Of course you can still add an expansion drive to TiVo HD's by using WinMFS. It's quite easy, but for anyone not up for doing anything besides P&P it looks like it's W&S (wait and see).


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## CrispyCritter

keenanSR said:


> Limiting the expansion to a drive that can not be found anywhere is a major blunder on TiVo's part. A friend of mine, who is a big-wig at one of the world's largest ad/media/marketing companies, who happens to have TiVo as a client, says this is fairly typical of Tivo. To put it bluntly, they are not the sharpest tacks around when it comes to marketing, and having available equipment to market a new feature certainly falls in that category.


There's absolutely no question that TiVo released the expansion capability before they had planned to. TiVo has basically said so. 9.2 was scheduled to be released in November, which would normally mean next week. 9.2 got released early because it fixed serious errors for some folks with SA cablecards. If they had stuck to their schedule, you wouldn't have even had a chance to get it before now! (And TiVo would have been much better prepared for the release).

I view this as flexibility in favor of the customer, and am glad TiVo did it, even though I have Motorola cablecards and wasn't affected by the fix. It's certainly not a "major blunder".


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## sfhub

keenanSR said:


> A friend of mine, who is a big-wig at one of the world's largest ad/media/marketing companies, who happens to have TiVo as a client, says this is fairly typical of Tivo. To put it bluntly, they are not the sharpest tacks around when it comes to marketing


Well, they've been able to convince people who paid for "lifetime" to continuously pay a $199 service fee ever 4 years. They've been good at marketing those


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## keenanSR

CrispyCritter said:


> There's absolutely no question that TiVo released the expansion capability before they had planned to. TiVo has basically said so. 9.2 was scheduled to be released in November, which would normally mean next week. 9.2 got released early because it fixed serious errors for some folks with SA cablecards. If they had stuck to their schedule, you wouldn't have even had a chance to get it before now! (And TiVo would have been much better prepared for the release).
> 
> I view this as flexibility in favor of the customer, and am glad TiVo did it, even though I have Motorola cablecards and wasn't affected by the fix. It's certainly not a "major blunder".


I guess it depends on how you look at it. In 3 days starts the period when people spend the most money all year on items such as this, if TiVo had planned just a little bit better they could have taken advantage of that shopping period, as it is, not having drives available for people to buy is simply poor planning in my opinion.

They could very easily have just released this update without the expansion capability, the fact that the did tells me, they at the very least, wanted to take advantage of that shopping season. Whether it was WD or TiVo, somebody dropped the ball.

Who knows, by Friday maybe the stores will be flooded with the drives. 

And for the record, the SA card issue was just one of many things worked on with this upgrade.


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## meckel

tmeek said:


> Good luck expanding a Tivo HD with an external esata drive, which requires the WD My DVR model. They are not available on the WD website or on the Tivo web site or at any retail web site. The only retailer who partly claims to have them is Best Buy, but they are not available online and no store in Oregon (which I checked) has them. Good luck finding one.


Best Buy is getting more in. My local store in Richmond was out of stock last week, yesterday they were show 3 store in the area were in-stock. Pick one up during lunch. I would talk to a manager at your closest BBY find out when they get their replenishment truck (this time of year they should be getting several a week), or if you can special order one at the store.

Looks the the "Backordered: Usually leaves our warehouse within 1-2 weeks" is their normal out of stock message on the BBY website.

Having worked in forecasting product for retail, the reasons for the shortage could any number of reasons, not just Tivo's. It is hard to forecast demand on new product, even harder during the holiday time. Most hard drive have very low margin and being stuck with a lot that are not selling and have to be markeddown is a bad thing (speaking from the retailers POV), 
So you tend to forecast on the conservative side on 'till you have some sales history. The issue with this is they (Tivo and or BBY) have been telling WD they need X now they say we need Y there is a lead time to make them and import them and with something like this they are not making a lot of backstock 'cause it is only in 2 companies.
Tivo could have underforecasted the demand to WD and BBY, not expecting it to sale as well as it is. It is also possible the BBY is getting all that WD has because they buy more from them in dollars, units, so WD wants to make BBY happy. Also WD may not have been able to make the amount wanted by the 2 retailers, thus causing the shortage, simular to the issues with the Wiis (on a much bigger scale of course)

Not to spark any rumors, but I know that Apple will stop selling iPods to retailers a month or so before the launch new ones to allow companies to sell out of the old ones before the news come in. I have no idea if that is the case, but I know it is comon pratice in CE.

My point is there are a lot of factors that can have caused this shortage other then Tivo messed, they could have, but it could have been BBY or WD who had the issue. Or we could just just buying more then they thought we would sooner then anyone thought.

I would guess we will see them come and go thought the holiday and stablize sometime in January, but I think we will be able to find, just comes down to timing


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## keenanSR

sfhub said:


> Well, they've been able to convince people who paid for "lifetime" to continuously pay a $199 service fee ever 4 years. They've been good at marketing those




Sent you a PM


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## steinercat

I think I just picked up the last Expander in Las Vegas....until the next shipment comes in.

saw it online in 1 BB last night, went there 10AM today and just checked now, and out of stock again.

the last box was in the PC section. guy in Tivo department didn't know what the Expander was, but the guy over at PCs...immediately smiled and said "lucky guy" when he saw me picking the box up.


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## CrispyCritter

keenanSR said:


> I guess it depends on how you look at it. In 3 days starts the period when people spend the most money all year on items such as this, if TiVo had planned just a little bit better they could have taken advantage of that shopping period, as it is, not having drives available for people to buy is simply poor planning in my opinion.
> 
> They could very easily have just released this update without the expansion capability, the fact that the did tells me, they at the very least, wanted to take advantage of that shopping season. Whether it was WD or TiVo, somebody dropped the ball.


I don't think you understand how releases and beta testing work. (Note, I'm not in a TiVo beta). They were undoubtedly already beta testing 9.2 by the time the SA cablecard issue came up. They're not going to force all those people back to 9.1 just to do a quick test of the SA card fix. It would have extremely difficult to test and release the update without the expansion capability (not "very easily" as you say).

While there were other issues addressed in 9.2, TiVo has said the SA card issue forced the early release. It was a major serious flaw.

Besides, the supply deficit of the Expander has a very minor impact on TiVo revenue. TiVo makes no money on TiVo store items once overhead is considered. The only real issue is whether lack of the Expander in stores means people won't buy an S3 or TiVo HD unit. Given that people know the Expander is out there but back-ordered, I expect there will be very few sales lost.


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## richsadams

meckel said:


> <snip>My point is there are a lot of factors that can have caused this shortage other then Tivo messed, they could have, but it could have been BBY or WD who had the issue. Or we could just just buying more then they thought we would sooner then anyone thought.
> 
> I would guess we will see them come and go thought the holiday and stablize sometime in January, but I think we will be able to find, just comes down to timing


All very good points. TiVo would have begun working on this at least a year ago or more. Historically software upgrades have been released near the end of the month. *If *their plan was to release v9.2x upgrade including the expansion feature right about now everything would have likely gone to plan. WD, BB and TiVo would all have been able to meet their immediate obligations with more units in the pipe.

The shortages, IMHO, are likely due to an early software release which caught everyone off guard...third party suppliers (WD), retailers, (BB) and TiVo marketing itself.

If TiVo R&D deemed that it was necessary to get the latest upgrade into the wild ASAP, everyone else involved would have had to make the best of an unexpected, unplanned and out-of-forecast situation.

No company in its right mind wants to lose sales of any sort; these kinds of situations benefit no one. Long-term planning can't always account for the unexpected. I'm not a TiVo apologist&#8230;they've certainly made mistakes in the past. However you can argue ad nauseum about the software bugs, supply chain issues, etc, but the bottom line is that when forecasts and solid planning are thrown out the window to address immediate issues, the end result generally benefits the widest audience possible. Fixing tens of thousands of DVR's immediately or satisfying the desires of a much smaller consumer population that wants more HDD space? The decision process was probably a very short one.

You can bet there are more than a few people working hard in the background to get things in order. This is a world of razor-thin margins and JIT (just in time) supply chain models. That TiVo was able to generate as much support for the product a good month ahead of schedule is more than a little surprising to me. It actually speaks well of TiVo's dedication to doing their best to make things right.

Take a deep breath and hang in there...my money says you'll get your toys before Santa even gets his bags packed.


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## steinercat

richsadams said:


> ..... Fixing tens of thousands of DVR's immediately or satisfying the desires of a much smaller consumer population that wants more HDD space? ...


That pretty much sums it up.

I would imagine, the vast majority of TiVo owners, or at least first time buyers (in large part who are not part of this messageboard) actually would not even consider the Expander upgrade UNTIL they filled up or were near filling up the drive. Likewise, look at it from a cost perspective. $250 for the THD. How many would immediately pull out another $200 for an immediate upgrade?

In a highly competitive electronics market, the JIT (just in time) model, whether in the manufracturing or distribution channels is often the only way to minimize business risks. This isn't often convenient for impatient consumers like us....but may be the most logical way for TiVo.


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## jasel

I haven't kept up with the thread so if this has been discussed, my apologies.

Just added a Seagate FreeAgent Pro 750GB eSata drive to my Series 3. It was about the same price as the official 'Expander' (which I have on my other box), but with 50&#37; more space. 

After the typical 'unsupported' scares, it went right on. It has no ventilation because the case is really just a giant aluminum heat sink. Dead silent in operation.

The only issue for some will be the orange glow it emits. But that can be easily masked if it becomes bothersome. It's very slick looking, like a little sculpture.

If you're considering something other than the official device, this might be the one to look at.

James
Series 3 (
one with ~100hrs HD, the other has ~130, or 1200+ SD)
SVR-2000 (140hrs. just watching the stuff left on it before I give it away)


----------



## leeherman

I went the "unsupported" route too.

I bought a Nexstar 3 eSATA fanless enclosure and 500 gbyte WD drive. Total $150. I'm using the eSATA cable that came with the enclosure.

I've been using for a year and a half the same enclosure with a 300 gbyte drive attached to my SA Explorer 8300HD. Never a problem.

The S3 picked up on the new drive immediately and I'm off and running.

LH


----------



## richsadams

jasel said:


> I haven't kept up with the thread so if this has been discussed, my apologies.
> 
> Just added a Seagate FreeAgent Pro 750GB eSata drive to my Series 3. It was about the same price as the official 'Expander' (which I have on my other box), but with 50% more space. <snip> If you're considering something other than the official device, this might be the one to look at.


Congratulations on getting everything set up and running.

Unfortunately the Free Agent Pro drives haven't been recommended since the first few weeks that expansion drives were added to S3's over six months ago for a number of reasons. Although there are still some in service at this time there have been many more reports of problems with the drives and how they affect TiVo; causing reboots, failing completely etc.

The problems with FAP drives were well documented in the original Series3 eSATA Drive Expansion in 8.x: FAQ + Discussion plus numerous posts beyond that.



> *Are there any drives or enclosures I should avoid?*
> 
> A number of members have reported problems with Cavalry CAUE37500 500Gb drives and the Seagate Free Agent Pro 750. Neither of these solutions was intended for 24/7 use.
> 
> Initially, these drives work just fine, but a significant number develop problems after a few days to a few weeks. This results in reboots and lost recordings. The source of the problem isn't known, but neither includes a fan, so it is possible that both lack sufficient cooling for 24/7 operation. If you take the risk and buy one of these drives, make sure it is stored in a cool, well-ventilated environment.
> 
> With regard to external enclosures, units with fans are greatly preferable if you intend to use it in an enclosed space (such as a cabinet) with limited ventilation.


One of the other often quoted problems was with the eSATA cable connections.

It's good that yours is working (hope this info doesn't burst your bubble) and it may continue to be fine going forward. But again, the Free Agent Pro drives are still not recommended. It might be worth exchanging for one of the recommended drives.


----------



## Tiger87

Can I connect a 500GB Seagate Free Agent to a Series 3, via a USB 2.0 to eSATA connector?


----------



## richsadams

Tiger87 said:


> Can I connect a 500GB Seagate Free Agent to a Series 3, via a USB 2.0 to eSATA connector?


Welcome to the forum! 

Unfortunately you cannot use a USB > eSATA adapter to connect an external drive to TiVo. It has to be eSATA II to eSATA II.

Again, as noted above, the FAP's are not recommended as expansion drives for TiVo.

The first post in this thread should have most of the answers to your questions.

BTW: Avoid cross-posting (asking the same question on more than one thread) as the moderators (and some irritable members) can get cranky.


----------



## donaudio

richsadams said:


> Welcome to the forum!
> 
> Unfortunately you cannot use a USB > eSATA adapter to connect an external drive to TiVo. It has to be eSATA II to eSATA II.
> 
> Again, as noted above, the FAP's are not recommended as expansion drives for TiVo.
> 
> The first post in this thread should have most of the answers to your questions.
> 
> BTW: Avoid cross-posting (asking the same question on more than one thread) as the moderators (and some irritable members) can get cranky.


Earlier this year I bought a FAP 750, luckily it has a five year warranty. The first two died on me. When I got the third one I bought a Siig 6' cable and put a muffin fan behind the FAP since it is in an enclosed cabinet. So far it has been working for three months and the Tivo recognizes it. 131 hours HD. It is cool to the touch


----------



## richsadams

donaudio said:


> Earlier this year I bought a FAP 750, luckily it has a five year warranty. The first two died on me. When I got the third one I bought a Siig 6' cable and put a muffin fan behind the FAP since it is in an enclosed cabinet. So far it has been working for three months and the Tivo recognizes it. 131 hours HD. It is cool to the touch


As mentioned earlier, it's good to hear some FAP's are still working. :up:


----------



## fred22

While I've said it before, too, my FAP 750 has been working since I altered a monoprice cable (trimming rubber) which was somewhere around June (I should find the receipt). Ah, I traced back the software installation on my PC and found I installed the FAP on May 19th. So (with fingers crossed), it appears to be working.


----------



## richsadams

fred22 said:


> While I've said it before, too, my FAP 750 has been working since I altered a monoprice cable (trimming rubber) which was somewhere around June (I should find the receipt). Ah, I traced back the software installation on my PC and found I installed the FAP on May 19th. So (with fingers crossed), it appears to be working.


Also good to hear that yours has worked from the start. :up:

Unfortunately there's another post about an FAP having trouble today. It sounds like a cable issue as well...but hard to say so far.


----------



## Z06_Pilot

so, just to clear up any confusion I have.

If I get the certified drive at BB, part #WDG1S5000VN, can I use the eSATA cable that comes with it successfully on my S3, or do I need to order the SIIG cable to ensure everything works properly?

I ask since i am not actually ordering it from Tivo, i was not sure the included cable is the same one provided by the Tivo ordered unit, and if it certified to work.

3 of the BB's in my area have the unit in stock, and I may brave the crowds to try to get a couple as I am getting low on space on my S3's!!

thanks folks for clearing this up for me.

Jeff


----------



## richsadams

Z06_Pilot said:


> so, just to clear up any confusion I have.
> 
> If I get the certified drive at BB, part #WDG1S5000VN, can I use the eSATA cable that comes with it successfully on my S3, or do I need to order the SIIG cable to ensure everything works properly?
> 
> I ask since i am not actually ordering it from Tivo, i was not sure the included cable is the same one provided by the Tivo ordered unit, and if it certified to work.
> 
> 3 of the BB's in my area have the unit in stock, and I may brave the crowds to try to get a couple as I am getting low on space on my S3's!!
> 
> thanks folks for clearing this up for me.
> 
> Jeff


Yes, the BB drive should be exactly the same as the one sold by TiVo and you should be able to use the supplied cable without any problems.

IIRC there was one instance where the cable that came with the "approved device" was bad (very loose connections) and they had to return everything to TiVo, but that's the only problem that's come up AFAIK.

Don't hurt any old folks or pregnant ladies in your quest! 

EDIT: I just noticed that BB has updated their model number to WDG1S5000VN as you indicated. However on their business website it is still WDG1S5000. WD still lists the My DVR Expander as WDG1S5000. I'm certain they are one in the same, but be sure the box says "My DVR Expander" and it is not a "My Book" model.


----------



## Z06_Pilot

thanks Rich!

the BB I went to had only two, bought them both. they indeed did have the "Tivo approved" sticker on them. 

both installed on my S3's with no issues and now I have 98 hours capacity of HD goodness(approximately, of course).....

thanks again.....
jeff


----------



## richsadams

Z06_Pilot said:


> thanks Rich!
> 
> the BB I went to had only two, bought them both. they indeed did have the "Tivo approved" sticker on them.
> 
> both installed on my S3's with no issues and now I have 98 hours capacity of HD goodness(approximately, of course).....
> 
> thanks again.....
> jeff


Woo hoo! Now all you have to do is find the time to watch all of that great HD programming!


----------



## berfy

Woo Hoo!!

On a lark I clicked on the "in store pick up" link at the Best Buy Website and by some miracle of the Tivo Goddess, out of the fifteen BB's in the Los Angeles area there was 1 "My DVR" to be had located at the BB just 2 miles from my house! 

Boy do I feel lucky! I immediately paid for the Drive online and twenty minutes later I received an email informing me that my Drive was ready for pick-up! 

I promptly returned the Seagate 500 GB drive that I had bought out of sheer desperation the day before yesterday.

Anybody looking at BB's website and getting discouraged by the "on Back-order" notice I strongly urge you to click on the "in store pick up" link and hope for the best.


It worked for me!!


----------



## bkdtv

berfy said:


> Anybody looking at BB's website and getting discouraged by the "on Back-order" notice I strongly urge you to click on the "in store pick up" link and hope for the best.


The Best Buy stores in my area appear to receive a handful every week.

They sell out within 2-3 days, so if you are only checking the site once or twice a week, you'll probably miss out.


----------



## dtphonehome

richsadams said:


> As mentioned earlier, it's good to hear some FAP's are still working. :up:


I'll add to that...my FAP 750 gave me some trouble in the summertime, when I suspect that the drive was overheating due to my habit of turning off the air conditioning whenever possible (and that the drive was in an enclosed cabinet to boot). I got an Antec laptop cooler (with two fans built-in) for like 15 bucks, and lay the drive flat on it to maximize exposure to the air stream. It's been running cool and problem-free ever since. I got the drive several months ago at BB for like $175 and I still haven't seen a better deal.


----------



## naclone

dtphonehome said:


> I'll add to that...my FAP 750 gave me some trouble in the summertime, when I suspect that the drive was overheating due to my habit of turning off the air conditioning whenever possible (and that the drive was in an enclosed cabinet to boot). I got an Antec laptop cooler (with two fans built-in) for like 15 bucks, and lay the drive flat on it to maximize exposure to the air stream. It's been running cool and problem-free ever since. I got the drive several months ago at BB for like $175 and I still haven't seen a better deal.


I haven't had any problem with my FAP either. I think the bulk of early probs with it were cable related.

out of curiosity, are you plugging your laptop cooler directly into the TiVo USB slot? That looks like a pretty good solution.


----------



## dtphonehome

naclone said:


> I haven't had any problem with my FAP either. I think the bulk of early probs with it were cable related.
> 
> out of curiosity, are you plugging your laptop cooler directly into the TiVo USB slot? That looks like a pretty good solution.


I actually plugged it into the USB port on my Airport Express (which the Tivo is plugged into for network access). I suppose the Tivo USB port would work as well, assuming it is powered.


----------



## jerryv-1

bkdtv said:


> Unless you disassemble your eSATA drive (which I do *not* recommend), you are going to need an SATA to eSATA cable.
> 
> The SIIG CB-SA0311-S1 SATA to eSATA cable can ordered for $12 from ProVantage.com, $8 from Buy.com, or $10 from TheNerds.net. The PPA Intl. cable from Newegg.com is also confirmed to work.
> 
> I wrote that particular FAQ question under the assumption that members would be building their own eSATA solutions and have access to the original bare drive, thereby eliminating the need for a SATA to eSATA cable. My apologizes for that oversight.
> 
> I've updated the Part III, FAQ #10 to clarify that a SATA to eSATA cable is required for those using retail eSATA solutions.


bkdtv,

OK, so now I ordered the cable from Provantage as indicated above. I waited for the package to arrive, took my Tivo drive out and connected it to USB via USB to SATA cable. Then i go to connect the WD drive to my USB port using an USB to SATA cable + the SATA to ESATA cable from Provantage that you provided a link to. The two cables do not fit.

This is getting extremely frustrating. Why can't this be much simpler. there MUST be an easier way.


----------



## bkdtv

jerry,

Do you have any way to take a picture of the connectors? I suppose the problem is that you've got two mail connectors and need a female?

I don't suppose it's possible for you to remove your case and use the eSATA to SATA cable to connect the external drive to an internal SATA port?


----------



## PaulPW

Warning: long story!
Back in August I purchased a Seagate 750Gb SATA/300 Barracuda 3.5" drive (P/N 9BJ848-557) and mounted it inside an Antec Veris MX-1 external eSATA enclosure. I got it working using the Kickstart62 method (thanks to this forum :up. Since then I've experienced frequent pixellation, pausing, skipping & stuttering of video & sound. Also the occassional reboot and once a lock-up . This occurs seemingly at random, can last only a few seconds or minutes and can occur just once in a show or numerous times. But I'd guess that 95+% of the time everything runs just fine!  The 9.2 software push didn't seem to make any difference in this behaviour. It is definately not due to incoming cable signal, as it happens on TiVoCast recordings also.

I purchased a copy of Spinrite and did a thorough scan of the drive (took 35hrs!) incase the power outages (see side-note below) had somehow screwed up the drive - nope, it was fine. I then tried changing the eSATA cable from the one that came with the Antec box to one recommended on this forum (SIIG 1m CB-SA0111-S1). I even tried adding some extra home-brew "shielding" by wrapping it in Al foil!!

Finally, thinking that my $600 _refurb'd_ S3 might be the problem (BTW thanks for the huge price drop TiVo - NOT!  shades of Steve Jobs!) I called TiVo, but already knew what the answer would be: "sorry, not supported". They even tried to walk me through dis-mounting the drive (which would have wiped all my saved shows).

So now I'm left contemplating whether to "downgrade" to TiVo's official DVR Expander (33% less space !) or to try another drive (and/or enclosure)...
1) Has anyone else had experience with this drive and specifically this drive in this enclosure? (The enclosure itself gets the OK in the FAQ... but beware my side-note below)
2) Has anyone opened a DVR Expander and found out what series of WD drive is in there? Is it the WD5000AVJS? This is asked with a view to purchasing the _same series _to put in my Antec box, so it is similar as possible to the "DVR Expander". Unfortunately WD only go up to 500GB with the AV series. To retain 750GB capacity, I could go with a DVR optimized Seagate DB35 or Hitachi Cinemastar...

_Side note_: the Antec enclosure power connector plug & socket was poorly made such that it easily came lose and caused numerous inadvertent power outs  I ended up exchanging it for a new one which is _marginally_ better.

Thanks for listening y'all!


----------



## jerryv-1

bkdtv said:


> jerry,
> 
> Do you have any way to take a picture of the connectors? I suppose the problem is that you've got two mail connectors and need a female?
> 
> I don't suppose it's possible for you to remove your case and use the eSATA to SATA cable to connect the external drive to an internal SATA port?


Yes, I can open the case to connect the WD drive. What do I connect the SATA end of the connector to? Where is the SATA connection inside my computer.

and then, the TIVO drive would be connected via SATA to USB and the WD drive would be connected internally (via eSATA to SATA)to WHAT? Is there a diagram someplace to show me the internal connection?


----------



## bkdtv

jerryv said:


> Yes, I can open the case to connect the WD drive. What do I connect the SATA end of the connector to? Where is the SATA connection inside my computer.


Remember to unplug the power to your computer before you connect anything to your PC. Also unplug the power to your computer before you disconnect anything from your PC.

The layout of every board is different. The best I can do is provide you some pictures of the internal SATA connector. Note colors of different ports vary by manufacturer; your internal SATA ports may be black or red.

Five SATA connectors shown at bottom-left in blue, purple (vertical orientation)

Second image from the bottom: six SATA connectors in dark blue at bottom-left corner (horizontal orientation)

The vertical SATA port orientation shown in the first link is the most common.

If you have a tower PC, the SATA ports will most likely be found towards the bottom right, although some boards have several of them at different spots. If you have a desktop PC, the SATA ports will most likely be found towards the front left.



jerryv said:


> and then, the TIVO drive would be connected via SATA to USB and the WD drive would be connected internally (via eSATA to SATA)to WHAT? Is there a diagram someplace to show me the internal connection?


You can connect the TiVo drive SATA to USB and the WD drive using an eSATA to SATA cable to the SATA port on your motherboard.


----------



## richsadams

PaulPW said:


> Warning: long story! <snip>
> 
> I purchased a copy of Spinrite and did a thorough scan of the drive (took 35hrs!) incase the power outages (see side-note below) had somehow screwed up the drive - nope, it was fine. I then tried changing the eSATA cable from the one that came with the Antec box to one recommended on this forum (SIIG 1m CB-SA0111-S1). I even tried adding some extra home-brew "shielding" by wrapping it in Al foil!!
> 
> _Side note_: the Antec enclosure power connector plug & socket was poorly made such that it easily came lose and caused numerous inadvertent power outs  I ended up exchanging it for a new one which is _marginally_ better.
> 
> Thanks for listening y'all!


Warning...long answer.

Sorry to hear that you're having trouble. I don't recall anyone with your setup having problems to date, but there's always a first.

Two things come to mind based on your post. First you mentioned doing a drive diagnostic w/SpinRite. However you also mentioned later that you don't want to lose your recordings. Basic surface scans usually catch errors but a deep read/write/read test is about the only way you can be certain there isn't a problem. An extended test would have wiped everything on your drive so I suspect that no matter how long the test ran that it might not have been adequate. I'm not familiar with SpinRite, but WD's Data Lifeguard Tools for Windows will do the appropriate test (in about 12 hours, YMMV).

Second you also mention that your original MX-1's power connector was bad. That is a real red flag and where I'd have the most concern. We have the same enclosure and the power cord connection is very snug and not at all loose. IIRC I don't believe anyone else has had any issues in that area. If you experienced more than one power failure/short because of a bad electrical connection it could have easily damaged not only the drive but the enclosure's circuit board as well. Power interruptions, spikes, etc. are serious when it comes to TiVo/computers and can do a little or a lot of harm to the equipment. It may have only damaged your eSATA drive but it could have caused problems for TiVo as well.

If you've experienced even one power issue with your new enclosure my advice would be to properly divorce the drive, not risk any more harm to your system and return the case to Antec. I believe they have a one-year warranty.

I'd also perform an extended read/write/read diagnostic on your drive as I suspect the electrical failures may have done some damage.

Finally you might try running TiVo's own diagnostic programs called "kickstarts" to see if that might clear things up; in particular kickstart 57.

You may end up having to replace your drive (and possibly case) in which case you can use whatever you'd like&#8230;but I'd stick with the recommendations to be safe. The MX-1/DB35 we're currently using has been flawless for over six months now but there are other options as well. Whenever I get a new drive I always run an extended diagnostic to be sure it's good before I even install it anymore.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


----------



## DinoBambino

I have the My DVR Expander hooked up to my TivoHD. Everything has been working great so far.

I have two observations about points listed in the FAQ section of this thread.



> Does it make a lot of noise?
> 
> The Western Digital My DVR Expander is tuned for low-noise DVR applications. Most people do not hear it over their TiVo.


My drive is significantly louder than my TivoHD. Has anyone else had the same experience?



> What are the dimensions?
> 
> You can set the drive upright as shown in this photo. When set upright, the dimensions are 6.8"H by 2.25"H by 5.5"D.
> 
> You can also set the drive flat with the WD logo on top and the dimensions are 2.25"H by 6.8"W by 5.5"D.


I have the drive placed flat (i.e. horizontal) with the WD logo on top. When trying to determine what might be causing the loudness, I flipped over the drive and noticed there is a WD logo on the other side. Does anyone else have the WD logo on both sides?

Thanks.


----------



## jerryv-1

bkdtv said:


> Remember to unplug the power to your computer before you connect anything to your PC. Also unplug the power to your computer before you disconnect anything from your PC.
> 
> The layout of every board is different. The best I can do is provide you some pictures of the internal SATA connector. Note colors of different ports vary by manufacturer; your internal SATA ports may be black or red.
> 
> Five SATA connectors shown at bottom-left in blue, purple (vertical orientation)
> 
> Second image from the bottom: six SATA connectors in dark blue at bottom-left corner (horizontal orientation)
> 
> The vertical SATA port orientation shown in the first link is the most common.
> 
> If you have a tower PC, the SATA ports will most likely be found towards the bottom right, although some boards have several of them at different spots. If you have a desktop PC, the SATA ports will most likely be found towards the front left.
> 
> You can connect the TiVo drive SATA to USB and the WD drive using an eSATA to SATA cable to the SATA port on your motherboard.


OK, thanks. Both Drives were connected, vista machine booted up, recognized the devises, no error message. I open WinMFS, go to select drives, and there is nothing available. i am logged in on vista with my user acct which has admin rights.

please advise, thanks.


----------



## jerryv-1

jerryv said:


> OK, thanks. Both Drives were connected, vista machine booted up, recognized the devises, no error message. I open WinMFS, go to select drives, and there is nothing available. i am logged in on vista with my user acct which has admin rights.
> 
> please advise, thanks.


running WinMFS build 7


----------



## richsadams

DinoBambino said:


> I have the My DVR Expander hooked up to my TivoHD. Everything has been working great so far.
> 
> My drive is significantly louder than my TivoHD. Has anyone else had the same experience?


Can you explain "louder"? Is it the seek process (read/write heads moving around, i.e. clicking) or is it more of a humming sound?


----------



## bkdtv

jerryv said:


> OK, thanks. Both Drives were connected, vista machine booted up, recognized the devises, no error message. I open WinMFS, go to select drives, and there is nothing available. i am logged in on vista with my user acct which has admin rights.


I assume you attached a power plug to each drive? eSATA cables do not supply power.


----------



## jmemmott

The expander drives at the Tivo store seem to have come off the back order list for a while. I ordered one and received an email letting me know it was being processed. We will see how long it takes...


----------



## jerryv-1

bkdtv said:


> I assume you attached a power plug to each drive? eSATA cables do not supply power.


Powered down vista machine, added external power to tivo drive and to WD drive. rebooted vista, both drives recognized, drivers installed, no error messages. opened WinMFS, file/select drive. No drives visible.


----------



## DinoBambino

richsadams said:


> Can you explain "louder"? Is it the seek process (read/write heads moving around, i.e. clicking) or is it more of a humming sound?


It is a humming sound. Almost like the sound of a fan (even though there is no fan in the enclosure). It is not terrible - just seems unusual that it would be that much louder than the TvoHD.

I picked up the hard drive and moved it into a vertical position and also turned it upside down. The humming sound was constant and did not vary at all.


----------



## greggt007

DinoBambino said:


> It is a humming sound. Almost like the sound of a fan (even though there is no fan in the enclosure). It is not terrible - just seems unusual that it would be that much louder than the TvoHD.
> 
> I picked up the hard drive and moved it into a vertical position and also turned it upside down. The humming sound was constant and did not vary at all.


i also have the humming sound. not terrible, but definitely noticeable with the tv off. the tivohd was dead silent. i will try to put some kind of soundproofing underneath and see if that helps, since right now it is flat on my entertainment stand behind my center channel.


----------



## HDTiVo

HDTiVo said:


> He just responded today that the 2 to 1 consolidation function will take some time, but the bug fix to allow multiple drive expansions (MFSadds) on the THD will be out "soon."
> 
> http://mfslive.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2497#2497


WinMFS beta7 is out, but I don't think Spike fixed the problem with multiple expansions of drives on the THD. (ie. 160GB->500GB>1TB ...)

I did find a way to do it (stock 160 -> 250 -> 500 now) which you can read about here:

http://www.mfslive.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2654#2654


----------



## richsadams

DinoBambino said:


> It is a humming sound. Almost like the sound of a fan (even though there is no fan in the enclosure). It is not terrible - just seems unusual that it would be that much louder than the TvoHD.
> 
> I picked up the hard drive and moved it into a vertical position and also turned it upside down. The humming sound was constant and did not vary at all.


Understood. A lot depends on the surface it's on. If it's on wood or even metal the sound can be amplified or it may even resonate with it (harmonics and all of that). I'm not familiar with the WD cases, but I've had some external drive cases that actually added to the noise level. Some CE stores like Fry's sell HDD insulation kits that include silicone washers for the mounting screws as well as mats that insulate the drive from the mounting tray. I don't know if you can easily open the enclosure though...or if it would void the warranty somehow.

As *greggt007 *suggests, you may be able to insulate it from the surface it's on a bit. There are various materials out there but I've found that a decent mouse pad will usually do the trick. The type that's made from wetsuit material seems to work best. Then ensure the least amount of surface is actually touching anything. It might take some experimenting and YMMV.


----------



## jlib

richsadams said:


> ...Two things come to mind based on your post. First you mentioned doing a drive diagnostic w/SpinRite. However you also mentioned later that you don't want to lose your recordings. Basic surface scans usually catch errors but a deep read/write/read test is about the only way you can be certain there isn't a problem. An extended test would have wiped everything on your drive so I suspect that no matter how long the test ran that it might not have been adequate. I'm not familiar with SpinRite, but WD's Data Lifeguard Tools for Windows will do the appropriate test (in about 12 hours, YMMV).


Not to worry! Spinrite is significantly more sophisticated than basic tools like Data Lifeguard and will do all the drive tests Data Lifeguard can do and more (and non-destructively). If his drive made it through a Spinrite pass it is safe to say it has no surface defects. His problem definitely lies elsewhere.


----------



## jerryv-1

jerryv said:


> Powered down vista machine, added external power to tivo drive and to WD drive. rebooted vista, both drives recognized, drivers installed, no error messages. opened WinMFS, file/select drive. No drives visible.


OK, now I have disabled user acct control in vista and can see my WD drive which is connected via eSATA to SATA. But still cannot see my Tivo drive, which is connected via SATA to USB.

Ideas?


----------



## bkdtv

jerryv said:


> OK, now I have disabled user acct control in vista and can see my WD drive which is connected via eSATA to SATA. But still cannot see my Tivo drive, which is connected via SATA to USB.
> 
> Ideas?


Try disconnecting and reconnecting the USB plug from your computer (while it is running).


----------



## TIVOSciolist

jmemmott said:


> The expander drives at the Tivo store seem to have come off the back order list for a while. I ordered one and received an email letting me know it was being processed. We will see how long it takes...


Thanks for the heads up! I just ordered mine.


----------



## jerryv-1

bkdtv said:


> Try disconnecting and reconnecting the USB plug from your computer (while it is running).


Does not help.

Upon further examination, the WD drive which is connected via SATA shows up in device manager as a disk drive (and it is visible in WinMFS). My Tivo drive, which is connected via SATA to USB shows up in DM as a USB Mass Storage Devise (under USB controllers)--and it is not visible in WinMFS.


----------



## jerryv-1

jerryv said:


> Does not help.
> 
> Upon further examination, the WD drive which is connected via SATA shows up in device manager as a disk drive (and it is visible in WinMFS). My Tivo drive, which is connected via SATA to USB shows up in DM as a USB Mass Storage Devise (under USB controllers)--and it is not visible in WinMFS.


Since the SATA to USB connection obviously does not work with WinMFS, what SATA cable is recommended to connect Tivo drive to SATA port in my computer?


----------



## bkdtv

jerryv said:


> Since the SATA to USB connection obviously does not work with WinMFS, what SATA cable is recommended to connect Tivo drive to SATA port in my computer?


A standard SATA I to SATA I cable like this. These are sold at Comp USA, Frys, etc.

Here is one from Frys.


----------



## HDTiVo

jerryv said:


> Does not help.
> 
> Upon further examination, the WD drive which is connected via SATA shows up in device manager as a disk drive (and it is visible in WinMFS). My Tivo drive, which is connected via SATA to USB shows up in DM as a USB Mass Storage Devise (under USB controllers)--and it is not visible in WinMFS.


Did the TiVo drive get assigned a drive letter?

Did you try clicking the Show Mounted Drive box in WinMFS when selecting the drive?


----------



## PaulPW

Thanks richsadams. Good to know that my setup has worked for others - makes me suspect the TiVo even more. Once when I was feeling to ensure that the eSATA cable was properly seated that seemed to trigger the problems, so made me suspect the eSATA port on the TiVo... or it was just coincidence! I need to try jiggling it some more to see if it does it again.
I concur with jlib on Spinrite - see http://www.grc.com. I'll try the Kickstart you suggest though.
Something I didn't mention before is that most of the time when running normally the blue LED on the MX-1 is solid. But it seems that whenever I experience problems it flickers. How does the LED on your MX-1 behave?

I've gone ahead and ordered a DB35 750GB - if that doesn't work I'll then have to try a DVR Expander (if still in stock!). Fortunately I'm building a NAS box so will be able to use my current drive and the DB35 in it.
To keep my recorded shows I plan on mirroring my current drive to the DB35 in my PC using Ghost. Should work, right? Or does TiVo look for a _specific _drive by serial # etc.??


----------



## thilt

It may be here somewhere but I can't find it. Is there a 1TB plug and play solution for an S3 that anyone can recommend? If I can avoid cobbling together enclosures, cords etc. I'd like to. Thanks.


----------



## richsadams

PaulPW said:


> Thanks richsadams. Good to know that my setup has worked for others - makes me suspect the TiVo even more. Once when I was feeling to ensure that the eSATA cable was properly seated that seemed to trigger the problems, so made me suspect the eSATA port on the TiVo... or it was just coincidence! I need to try jiggling it some more to see if it does it again.
> I concur with jlib on Spinrite - see http://www.grc.com. I'll try the Kickstart you suggest though.
> Something I didn't mention before is that most of the time when running normally the blue LED on the MX-1 is solid. But it seems that whenever I experience problems it flickers. How does the LED on your MX-1 behave?
> 
> I've gone ahead and ordered a DB35 750GB - if that doesn't work I'll then have to try a DVR Expander (if still in stock!). Fortunately I'm building a NAS box so will be able to use my current drive and the DB35 in it.
> To keep my recorded shows I plan on mirroring my current drive to the DB35 in my PC using Ghost. Should work, right? Or does TiVo look for a _specific _drive by serial # etc.??


Yes, be sure the eSATA cable is seated snugly...no wiggle room there either. The eSATA cable seems to be the number one problem for people. Either the cable itself causes problems or the connections are loose, etc. I see that you replaced your cable with one of the recommended replacements. Just for the heck of it, you might try using the MX-1's cable to see if by chance you happened to have received a defective cable. IIRC there was one post that indicated that the eSATA connector on their TiVo was defective. The connector actually moved around so you could take a look at that, but odds are it's fine.

The blue light on the MX-1 enclosure normally flickers whenever the drive is active - generally writing. On ours the flickering is very subtle. Others have reported a more noticeable flicker. My PC external drives (not MX-1's) have a very distinct flicker when they are working...much more so than the MX-1 seems to. If you're experiencing problems when it's flickering I'd say that's a pretty sure sign that there's something wrong with the drive, enclosure or cable.

TiVo does "register" the drive model, but AFAIK not an actual serial number. (The model number shows up on TiVo's System Information screen.) The model number may or may not be a sticking point if you install a different one. I know people have swapped out enclosures with the same HDD without a problem.

I'm not sure if anyone has tried copying an existing eSATA drive's contents to a new drive for a replacement yet. My only concern is that if there's a problem with the actual content of the drive then you'd be copying that issue to the new one, but the probability of that happening isn't very high based on what you've told us...sounds very much like a physical issue. In any case Spike @ MFSLive would be the one to ask. You could check on the MFSLive Forum. It would be good to know if it can be done.

Youre pioneering some new territory here. Keep us posted! :up:


----------



## richsadams

thilt said:


> It may be here somewhere but I can't find it. Is there a 1TB plug and play solution for an S3 that anyone can recommend? If I can avoid cobbling together enclosures, cords etc. I'd like to. Thanks.


The only 1TB P&P eSATA drive that I'm aware of at this time would be Apricorn's 1TB DVR Xpander. I see that it's currently $329 after rebate. Compared to a DIY project; drive, enclosure and cable, it's pretty competitive and an easy way to get a lot more storage space.

Apricorn DVR Xpander line

They were using WD drives a few months ago, but I'm not sure what they are using now. I suspect it's still WD but you could contact them and ask.

Their DVR Xpander models have a built in fan, come with an eSATA cable, etc. and should work fine for P&P with a Series3. There are a number of people here using the 500GB and 750GB DVR Xpanders successfully and I've purchased enclosures from them that were high quality and had no problems.


----------



## thilt

Thanks, Rich. Just what I was looking for. I'm adding it to my Christmas list.

Tom


----------



## leeherman

As mentioned in a previous post, I went the "unsupported" route with my S3. I bought a WD 500 gigabyte drive and a Vantec NexStar 3 case. I used the cable supplied with the case.

I've been using the same type of case and a 300 gigabyte drive with my SA Explorer 8300HD without incident.

Anywhooo...I set up the drive on 11/21 and several days later started noticing skips and jumps in my recordings to the point of them being unwatchable. This also included stuff transferred from my S2. I spent the past two days copying stuff to my Tivo server and removed the drive from my S3 this evening.

With the drive removed, the S3 records and plays perfectly.

I'm wondering if anyone's experienced similar results with a non-supported setup. I figured it simply wouldn't be recognized if the cable was a problem, and I can't imagine the case or drive being the source of the problem.

What are the odds that the recommended SIIG cable will be the solution to my problem?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

LH


----------



## Bodie

leeherman said:


> What are the odds that the recommended SIIG cable will be the solution to my problem?


Not even a novice at this yet, but from everything I've read, the odds are pretty good!


----------



## richsadams

leeherman said:


> ...I set up the drive on 11/21 and several days later started noticing skips and jumps in my recordings to the point of them being unwatchable. This also included stuff transferred from my S2. I spent the past two days copying stuff to my Tivo server and removed the drive from my S3 this evening.
> 
> With the drive removed, the S3 records and plays perfectly.
> 
> I'm wondering if anyone's experienced similar results with a non-supported setup. I figured it simply wouldn't be recognized if the cable was a problem, and I can't imagine the case or drive being the source of the problem.
> 
> What are the odds that the recommended SIIG cable will be the solution to my problem?
> 
> Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> LH


The eSATA cables have been the biggest issue all along. The recommended SIIG cable has resolved a number of headaches. Next were various drives and enclosures (mostly off-brand enclosures with bridge problems, non-cooling, etc.) The list of recommended drives and enclosures was narrowed down pretty quickly in the first 30 days or so back in May/June.

But again...eSATA cables can be a real problem for TiVo if they're not perfect and/or their connections are at all faulty.


----------



## richsadams

Bodie said:


> Not even a novice at this yet, but from everything I've read, the odds are pretty good!


See, you're a pro already!


----------



## leeherman

Bodie and richsadams,

Thanks for your replies!

I just ordered the SIIG cable and will try it with the same case and drive. The same model of case worked fine with my Explorer 8300HD DVR, so I'd hope it would be fine for the S3. If problems persist then I'll order a recommended case.

G'day!

LH


----------



## richsadams

leeherman said:


> Bodie and richsadams,
> 
> Thanks for your replies!
> 
> I just ordered the SIIG cable and will try it with the same case and drive. The same model of case worked fine with my Explorer 8300HD DVR, so I'd hope it would be fine for the S3. If problems persist then I'll order a recommended case.
> 
> G'day!
> 
> LH


Sounds good. No guarantee that a new cable will fix it, but it can't hurt.

Keep us posted. :up:


----------



## richsadams

While in Costco today I noticed that they just started stocking a new WD 1TB My Book eSATA (and USB/Firewire) hard drive for $299:

Costco web site link.

Specs are here:

http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=357

Pics and details:

http://www.westerndigital.com/en/flash/index.asp?family=wdfMyBook_Home_1C

That's a pretty good price and it should work via P&P on TiVo Series3 models (not P&P for TiVo HD however - see the first post on this thread) for more THD expansion info.

The box was in a blister pack and I couldn't tell if it comes with an eSATA cable or not but WD's web site indicates that it only comes w/USB and Firewire cables.


----------



## Clentz

richsadams said:


> While in Costco today I noticed that they just started stocking a new WD 1TB My Book eSATA (and USB/Firewire) hard drive for $299:
> 
> Costco web site link.
> 
> Specs are here:
> 
> http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=357
> 
> Pics and details:
> 
> http://www.westerndigital.com/en/flash/index.asp?family=wdfMyBook_Home_1C
> 
> That's a pretty good price and it should work via P&P on TiVo Series3 models (not P&P for TiVo HD however - see the first post on this thread) for more THD expansion info.
> 
> The box was in a blister pack and I couldn't tell if it comes with an eSATA cable or not but WD's web site indicates that it only comes w/USB and Firewire cables.


I went down that path - It did not work. One of my computer parts suppliers added that internally the "Box" likely had two drives.

Carl


----------



## 1283

Clentz said:


> One of my computer parts suppliers added that internally the "Box" likely had two drives.


That's a single drive unit.


----------



## jlib

Clentz said:


> ...One of my computer parts suppliers added that internally the "Box" likely had two drives.


Very unlikely, especially since they now have a 1TB drive. To see what a dual drive enclosure looks like look at the World Edition II enclosure on the same Costco page above. The only purpose in a dual drive system is to gain capacity beyond what is easily obtainable. Hence the clearance prices on various dual-500GB 1TB enclosure systems.

As you also said, it still may not work, though, but if not it is not because it has two drives.

I just noticed that it has a Costco specific part number (as Costco often does). WDH1CS10000N is generic version. WDH1CS10000*C*N is the Costco version. Typically such special models are functionally identical.

Costo is also cheaper than NewEgg WDH1CS10000N


----------



## richsadams

Clentz said:


> I went down that path - It did not work. One of my computer parts suppliers added that internally the "Box" likely had two drives.
> 
> Carl


You should send your "computer parts supplier" the specs. Then tell him to keep his day job.  It is a single drive unit.

AFAIK there's no reason that it would not work on a Series3.


----------



## Clentz

richsadams said:


> You should send your "computer parts supplier" the specs. Then tell him to keep his day job.  It is a single drive unit.
> 
> AFAIK there's no reason that it would not work on a Series3.


Except it didn't. I ended up with an hitachi.

Carl


----------



## richsadams

Clentz said:


> Except it didn't. I ended up with an hitachi.
> 
> Carl


Um...what didn't? 

Are you saying that you purchased the referenced WD HDD, connected it to your Series3 TiVo and it did not work?

AFAIK Hitachi doesn't make a comparable, stand-alone eSATA drive to date, but if so, can you provide a link?


----------



## Burt Spielman

I'm in the midst of performing this upgrade, with the intention of adding an additional Seagate 1TB drive in an Antec MX-1 enclosure as an external drive. I'm using the instructions in III,9 and III,10 of the FAQ, for which, by the way, I thank all involved.

Here's my question: On the originally installed 750GB drive (purchased in an S3 upgraded by WeaKnees) and the new 1TB drives, there's a jumper setting permitting either "Limit to 1.5 Gb/s Operation" (jumper in place) or "3.0 Gb/s Operation" (jumper removed). The jumper is absent from the 750 GB drive. Can I assume I should remove the jumpers from both new 1TB drives?


----------



## richsadams

Burt Spielman said:


> I'm in the midst of performing this upgrade, with the intention of adding an additional Seagate 1TB drive in an Antec MX-1 enclosure as an external drive. I'm using the instructions in III,9 and III,10 of the FAQ, for which, by the way, I thank all involved.
> 
> Here's my question: On the originally installed 750GB drive (purchased in an S3 upgraded by WeaKnees) and the new 1TB drives, there's a jumper setting permitting either "Limit to 1.5 Gb/s Operation" (jumper in place) or "3.0 Gb/s Operation" (jumper removed). The jumper is absent from the 750 GB drive. Can I assume I should remove the jumpers from both new 1TB drives?


Are there jumpers in place on the new drives? AFAIK, no, there shouldn't be any jumpers.


----------



## Burt Spielman

richsadams said:


> Are there jumpers in place on the new drives? AFAIK, no, there shouldn't be any jumpers.


OK, I removed the jumpers, but I'm in trouble at the moment. I ran WinMFS, following the instructions in FAQ III,9. It took about 45 minutes for the backup to complete. Mfsadd, however, was almost instantaneous. Is this normal?

Before marrying the external drive, I decided to temporarily install the new 1TB drive into the TiVo S3. I get the "Powering Up" screen, then the TiVo symbol on the S3's front panel extinguishes and the TV screen becomes (and remains) gray. I powered the TiVo up a few times with no change.

I reinstalled the original 750GB drive, and the TiVo powers up OK, but I get an "External Storage Missing" screen, which invites me hit Clear if I don't wish to use an external device. Of course, thus far, there is no external device. But, when I hit Clear, the TiVo cautions that I will lose most or all of my Now Playing List recordings if I continue. This is precisely what I don't want! What has happened?

I see on the WinMFS website that the truncated backup does not include my recordings (as I would expect, given the time it took to create the backup), so I'm supposing that I don't want to restore to the 750GB from the backup file.

Should I simply run the backup again? When I reconnect everything to the PC and run WinMFS again, it reports that the two drives are now married, and that I cannot select one without the other (not that I would want to). It also reports that the 1TB drive is a TiVo format drive. Is this what I should expect. I thought III,9 had to do with just expanding the original upgraded drive. I haven't performed III,10 yet, which I thought had to do with marrying the new external 1TB drive to the newly upgraded internal 1TB drive. Why does it report that the 750 and the first 1TB are married?

And, again, was the time to execute mfsadd normal? I'd appreciate guidance here, in order not to lose prior recordings.


----------



## richsadams

Ouch! I have to step back regarding the WinMFS questions as I've only used the Linux boot disk method for mods.

However, if you're saying that you never had an external drive connected, you shouldn't lose any of your recordings. Only the recordings made _after _connecting an external drive are lost when it is divorced.

That the message came up at all (if you never had an external drive) is curious though. 

Hopefully someone familar with using WinMFS can assist with the other issues.


----------



## Burt Spielman

richsadams said:


> Ouch! I have to step back regarding the WinMFS questions as I've only used the Linux boot disk method for mods.
> 
> However, if you're saying that you never had an external drive connected, you shouldn't lose any of your recordings. Only the recordings made _after _connecting an external drive are lost when it is divorced.
> 
> That the message came up at all (if you never had an external drive) is curious though.
> 
> Hopefully someone familar with using WinMFS can assist with the other issues.


Thanks, Rich. I decided to trust your expertise, and I proceeded to divorce the (phantom) external drive. (On the TiVo, CLEAR, then three thumbs down, then enter. It took several minutes, as indicated beforehand by the TiVo.) As you suggested, my original recording survive on the 750GB drive.

Now, I think I'm back where I started (other than that the 1TB drive has been formatted).

So, my question has to do with the original WinMFS FAQ, particularly III,9. Is this method meant for previously upgraded internal drives (recall that my S3 was upgraded to 750GB when I bought it)? Or should I be using WinMFS first to copy the contents of the 750GB drive to the new 1TB drive (to preserve recordings), then proceed with III,10.

I think some clarification is needed in the FAQ on this issue. III,9 isn't clear on whether it applies to previously upgraded drives. I don't see where the recordings are copied to the new, larger drive before it's married to the second drive. Am I missing something here?


----------



## richsadams

Burt Spielman said:


> Thanks, Rich. I decided to trust your expertise, and I proceeded to divorce the (phantom) external drive. (On the TiVo, CLEAR, then three thumbs down, then enter. It took several minutes, as indicated beforehand by the TiVo.) As you suggested, my original recording survive on the 750GB drive.
> 
> Now, I think I'm back where I started (other than that the 1TB drive has been formatted).
> 
> So, my question has to do with the original WinMFS FAQ, particularly III,9. Is this method meant for previously upgraded internal drives (recall that my S3 was upgraded to 750GB when I bought it)? Or should I be using WinMFS first to copy the contents of the 750GB drive to the new 1TB drive (to preserve recordings), then proceed with III,10.
> 
> I think some clarification is needed in the FAQ on this issue. III,9 isn't clear on whether it applies to previously upgraded drives. I don't see where the recordings are copied to the new, larger drive before it's married to the second drive. Am I missing something here?


Glad to hear everything is back to normal...for now anyway. :up:

You are correct; there are different procedures for upgrading from an existing upgraded drive. There are several people here that can answer your questions with some authority, but I'm not one of them. I could hazard a guess but I'd hate to be wrong. *Spike *(who is the author of MFSLive) and *bkdtv *, the author of the original post on this thread, are the experts.

You might check in at the MFSLive forum as well.

Best of luck...oh, and be very careful about who you put your trust in around these parts.


----------



## ThAbtO

I just saw this review of the My Expander http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,2223499,00.asp?kc=PCRSS02129TX1K0000530


----------



## lrhorer

Burt Spielman said:


> OK, I removed the jumpers, but I'm in trouble at the moment. I ran WinMFS, following the instructions in FAQ III,9. It took about 45 minutes for the backup to complete. Mfsadd, however, was almost instantaneous. Is this normal?


Yes. All Mfsadd is doing is partitioning the drives, which only takes milliseconds.



Burt Spielman said:


> Before marrying the external drive, I decided to temporarily install the new 1TB drive into the TiVo S3. I get the "Powering Up" screen, then the TiVo symbol on the S3's front panel extinguishes and the TV screen becomes (and remains) gray. I powered the TiVo up a few times with no change.


That's normal. It doesn't know what to do about the second drive.



Burt Spielman said:


> I reinstalled the original 750GB drive, and the TiVo powers up OK, but I get an "External Storage Missing" screen, which invites me hit Clear if I don't wish to use an external device. Of course, thus far, there is no external device. But, when I hit Clear, the TiVo cautions that I will lose most or all of my Now Playing List recordings if I continue. This is precisely what I don't want! What has happened?


What has happened is exactly what you did. You powered up the TiVo with a missing hard drive. Since it cannot find the second drive, the TiVo has only two options: either stop or repartition the system to use only a single drive. Rather than making the decision itself, the TiVo (wisely) leaves it up to you. Had you simply shut down the TiVo and plugged in the external drive, you would have been fine. As it is, you have to re-do the marriage.



Burt Spielman said:


> Should I simply run the backup again?


 That's safest.



Burt Spielman said:


> When I reconnect everything to the PC and run WinMFS again, it reports that the two drives are now married, and that I cannot select one without the other (not that I would want to). It also reports that the 1TB drive is a TiVo format drive. Is this what I should expect.


It's not surprising. You may need to wipe the drive partition on the external drive. Having one of the pair being married and the other divorced is confusing WinMFS.



Burt Spielman said:


> I thought III,9 had to do with just expanding the original upgraded drive. I haven't performed III,10 yet, which I thought had to do with marrying the new external 1TB drive to the newly upgraded internal 1TB drive. Why does it report that the 750 and the first 1TB are married?


You ran mfsadd. As far as the second drive is concerned, it is married. The first drive was divorced, however, without the second one's participation.



Burt Spielman said:


> And, again, was the time to execute mfsadd normal? I'd appreciate guidance here, in order not to lose prior recordings.


You should not have divorced the drive. You should have simply plugged the external drive into the TiVo. It's possible running mfsadd again will fix the situation, but you may need to repartition the second drive, first.


----------



## lrhorer

Burt Spielman said:


> I think some clarification is needed in the FAQ on this issue. III,9 isn't clear on whether it applies to previously upgraded drives. I don't see where the recordings are copied to the new, larger drive before it's married to the second drive. Am I missing something here?


Yeah, apparently the fact there is no point in copying anything to anything if all you are doing is adding an external drive. Why would you copy the contents of the internal drive to the external drive? If you are replacing the internal drive with a larger internal drive, then why would you marry them? Marriage is only for adding a second drive. If you are replacing the internal drive with a larger drive and adding an external drive, then I suggest you do the copy first, make sure it's all working and then marry the external drive.


----------



## jlib

Burt Spielman said:


> ...I think some clarification is needed in the FAQ on this issue. III,9 isn't clear on whether it applies to previously upgraded drives. I don't see where the recordings are copied to the new, larger drive before it's married to the second drive. Am I missing something here?


Indeed, since you are both upgrading your internal drive to 1TB and adding an external 1TB drive the FAQ misses the _copy_ part for upgrading the internal drive. Should be step 6. The _backup_ is just an optional step in case something goes very wrong. So, basically all you did was make a truncated backup to your harddrive. It is not clear how you married the new internal drive to your original. Maybe mfsadd when used on a blank drive does that? Now that you have successfully divorced it just do a copy before the add and everything should be fine. Test it if you want and then marry your new external drive to your new internal drive.

edit: Yes, mfsadd does both the increase the partitions function and the marrying function.


----------



## Burt Spielman

jlib said:


> Indeed, since you are upgrading your internal drive to 1TB and and adding and external 1TB drive the FAQ misses the _copy_ part for upgrading the internal drive. Should be step 6. The _backup_ is just an optional step in case something goes very wrong. So, basically all you did was make a truncated backup to your harddrive. It is not clear how you married the new drive to your original. Maybe mfsadd when used on a blank drive does that? Now that you have successfully divorced it just do a copy before the add and everything should be fine. Test it if you want and then marry your new external drive to your new internal drive.


I'm now in the midst of doing just that, copying the contents of the 750GB drive to the 1TB drive. As you suggest, I'll test the 1TB drive in the S3 before running mfsadd to marry the newly created 1TB internal drive to the other (as yet untouched) 1TB drive to be mounted in the Antec case.

There is, then, clearly an error in the FAQ, or at least an omission.

It's not clear to me either how I married the 1TB to the 750GB, but I'm happy I was able to undo it. (Just noted your edit; mfsadd must have been the culprit!)

Right now the PC is reporting WinMFS as "not responding," but the indicator lights on the USB-to-SATA adapters are blinking away just as they did before "not responding" showed up. Whether I'll be able to tell the copying has completed is an open question. Oh, how I wish there were a Mac-native version of all of this. I dread the unpredictability of Windows ("not responding" when it actually is, I think) every time I'm forced to use it.


----------



## jlib

lrhorer said:


> Yeah, apparently the fact there is no point in copying anything to anything if all you are doing is adding an external drive.


The original question was not exactly clear regarding what he was attempting to do (upgrading the internal _and_ adding an external). But in his case, the FAQ _is_ missing the copy step for upgrading the internal drive.


----------



## Burt Spielman

jlib said:


> The original question was not exactly clear regarding what he was attempting to do (upgrading the internal _and_ adding an external). But in his case, the FAQ _is_ missing the copy step for upgrading the internal drive.


Well, in my own defense, I thought I asked clearly: "I'm in the midst of performing this upgrade, *with the intention of adding an additional Seagate 1TB drive in an Antec MX-1 enclosure as an external drive*. I'm using the instructions in III,9 and III,10 of the FAQ, for which, by the way, I thank all involved." (Boldface added.)


----------



## bkdtv

jlib said:


> The original question was not exactly clear regarding what he was attempting to do (upgrading the internal _and_ adding an external). But in his case, the FAQ _is_ missing the copy step for upgrading the internal drive.


Thank you for catching that. While editing that FAQ question, I accidentally removed the line for mfscopy.

Fixed.


----------



## jlib

Burt Spielman said:


> Well, in my own defense, I thought I asked clearly: "I'm in the midst of performing this upgrade, *with the intention of adding an additional Seagate 1TB drive in an Antec MX-1 enclosure as an external drive*. I'm using the instructions in III,9 and III,10 of the FAQ, for which, by the way, I thank all involved." (Boldface added.)


Yeah, don't worry about it. No big deal. We got it straightened out. I was just letting lhorer know that I, too, initially didn't catch that you were adding an internal drive, too. This is the eSATA expansion drive thread so that is mainly what people have on their minds.


----------



## Burt Spielman

bkdtv said:


> Thank you for catching that. While editing that FAQ question, I accidentally removed the line for mfscopy.
> 
> Fixed.


Thanks, bkdtv! Happy to have (inadvertently!) helped to correct the FAQ!

I've terminated the mfscopy (because I couldn't see what was going on), and I've now restarted it with the Windows screensaver turned off.

This has turned into a much longer project than I expected, but I genuinely appreciate the prompt responses my fellow posters here.


----------



## Burt Spielman

jlib said:


> Yeah, don't worry about it. No big deal. We got it straightened out. I was just letting lhorer know that I, too, initially didn't catch that you were adding an internal drive, too. This is the eSATA expansion drive thread so that is mainly what people have on their minds.


No problem here either. As I mentioned in my reply to bkdtv, thanks for your prompt responses.


----------



## richsadams

Burt Spielman said:


> No problem here either. As I mentioned in my reply to bkdtv, thanks for your prompt responses.


Glad you were able to get the help you were looking for...there are great people here. :up: :up:

I'm certain you'll be able to get it going, no reason for it not to work. Let us know how it's going and then what you're going to do with all of that newly-found recording space!


----------



## Burt Spielman

Burt Spielman said:


> I've terminated the mfscopy (because I couldn't see what was going on), and I've now restarted it with the Windows screensaver turned off.


So, uh, when you turn the screensaver off in the appropriate Windows control panel, why does it still appear? 

Now, as before, if I get rid of the screensaver, the WinMFS windows are blank. (Just love Windows! ) The drive adapter lights are blinking as before, so I suppose I'll just persevere this time.


----------



## Burt Spielman

richsadams said:


> Glad you were able to get the help you were looking for...there are great people here. :up: :up:


Agreed!



richsadams said:


> I'm certain you'll be able to get it going, no reason for it not to work. Let us know how it's going and then what you're going to do with all of that newly-found recording space!


I've terminated the mfscopy again. Once again, I'm unable to see what's going on, as the WinMFS windows are blank after recovering from the Windows screensaver.

Further, the ancient (PIII) Windows box I'm using (we're a Mac shop exclusively; it's a friend's old cast-off) has only USB 1.1 ports. A little research showed that the interminable transfer rate would cause the 750GB transfer to take something like 6 days! I have a USB 2.0 PCI card on order. At about 40 times the transfer rate, the copy will still take several hours, but, at least, it will be manageable. (Yes, I could have ordered a more expensive eSATA card, but I've already got the USB-to-SATA adapters mentioned in bkdtv's FAQ.)

So, for now, the 750GB drive goes back into the TiVo S3 until I can start this process again. Stay tuned!

Just as a matter of note, it might helpful for future users if the FAQ included some information on transfer rates, or, at least, a caution against using USB 1.1 for large data transfers.


----------



## Clentz

richsadams said:


> Um...what didn't?
> 
> Are you saying that you purchased the referenced WD HDD, connected it to your Series3 TiVo and it did not work?
> 
> AFAIK Hitachi doesn't make a comparable, stand-alone eSATA drive to date, but if so, can you provide a link?


I used an Antec MX-1 case & a 1TM Hitachi drive (Same cable that had been purchased from BB, as the Costco drive had none)

Carl


----------



## jlib

Burt Spielman said:


> ...So, for now, the 750GB drive goes back into the TiVo S3 until I can start this process again. Stay tuned!


If using WinMFS becomes painfully inconvenient just burn a CD of the MFS Live boot disk. It is a self-contained Linux system which will not affect your Windows hard drive. You can also use it to set the quiet mode on the drives.


----------



## Bodie

Burt Spielman said:


> Agreed!
> 
> I've terminated the mfscopy again. Once again, I'm unable to see what's going on, as the WinMFS windows are blank after recovering from the Windows screensaver.
> 
> Further, the ancient (PIII) Windows box I'm using (we're a Mac shop exclusively; it's a friend's old cast-off) has only USB 1.1 ports. A little research showed that the interminable transfer rate would cause the 750GB transfer to take something like 6 days! I have a USB 2.0 PCI card on order. At about 40 times the transfer rate, the copy will still take several hours, but, at least, it will be manageable. (Yes, I could have ordered a more expensive eSATA card, but I've already got the USB-to-SATA adapters mentioned in bkdtv's FAQ.)
> 
> So, for now, the 750GB drive goes back into the TiVo S3 until I can start this process again. Stay tuned!
> 
> Just as a matter of note, it might helpful for future users if the FAQ included some information on transfer rates, or, at least, a caution against using USB 1.1 for large data transfers.


Copied the original 250 GB to a 1TB yesterday using winMFS and the copy took about 5 hours on USB2.0 (using two external enclosures). The screens went white just by looking at another window. My guess is there is no redraw in the algorithm for copying.


----------



## Bodie

jlib said:


> You can also use it to set the quiet mode on the drives.


How much difference is there? Is it worth pulling the drive to set quiet mode if there isn't really any noise now?


----------



## Burt Spielman

Bodie said:


> Copied the original 250 GB to a 1TB yesterday using winMFS and the copy took about 5 hours on USB2.0 (using two external enclosures). The screens went white just by looking at another window. My guess is there is no redraw in the algorithm for copying.


Thanks for the heads up on copying time. I'm happy to hear I'm not alone in seeing white screens.


----------



## jlib

Bodie said:


> ...Is it worth pulling the drive to set quiet mode if there isn't really any noise now?


Not if you discern no head seek noise.


----------



## richsadams

Clentz said:


> I used an Antec MX-1 case & a 1TM Hitachi drive (Same cable that had been purchased from BB, as the Costco drive had none)
> 
> Carl


Okay, understood about your current setup. :up:

However you mentioned the Costco drive again and so we're still not clear about your original statement.

Did you buy the referenced WD My Book Home Edition eSATA HDD from Costco and connect it to your Series3? If so did it not work and if not, can you tell us what happened?

If in fact that drive does not work for some reason (again, AFAIK there's no reason it wouldn't) a factual statement to that effect would be helpful to others. If it was some other drive, that's fine...just let us know.

Thanks.


----------



## Clentz

richsadams said:


> Okay, understood about your current setup. :up:
> 
> However you mentioned the Costco drive again and so we're still not clear about your original statement.
> 
> Did you buy the referenced WD My Book Home Edition eSATA HDD from Costco and connect it to your Series3? If so did it not work and if not, can you tell us what happened?
> 
> If in fact that drive does not work for some reason (again, AFAIK there's no reason it wouldn't) a factual statement to that effect would be helpful to others. If it was some other drive, that's fine...just let us know.
> 
> Thanks.


Yes, I did buy the drive. It was not recognized (OK W/USB to computer) Note: I also saw that "Stopper10" had the same failure.

Carl


----------



## richsadams

Clentz said:


> Yes, I did buy the drive. It was not recognized (OK W/USB to computer) Note: I also saw that "Stopper10" had the same failure.
> 
> Carl


Okay, thanks for that. So what you're saying is that you tried to connect the drive to either your computer or your Series3 (not sure which) via USB which caused you to believe that the drive wouldn't work? That's a little different than what you said in your OP...



Clentz said:


> I went down that path - It did not work. One of my computer parts suppliers added that internally the "Box" likely had two drives.
> 
> Carl


*Stopper10's* post did say that he couldn't get the drive to work but not for the same reason (trying to use USB instead of eSATA). There are a number of reasons it may not have worked but there's no way of knowing why as he never posted any more results.

Glad to hear that you're "new" drive is working in any case. :up:


----------



## Clentz

richsadams said:


> Okay, thanks for that. So what you're saying is that you tried to connect the drive to either your computer or your Series3 (not sure which) via USB which caused you to believe that the drive wouldn't work? That's a little different than what you said in your OP...
> 
> *Stopper10's* post did say that he couldn't get the drive to work but not for the same reason (trying to use USB instead of eSATA). There are a number of reasons it may not have worked but there's no way of knowing why as he never posted any more results.
> 
> Glad to hear that you're "new" drive is working in any case. :up:


OK, lets try this again: Stopper 10 said that he purchased his eSATA cable @ microcenter, I said I purchased mine @ Best Buy (The Costco drive does not come with the eSATA cable) He said that the drive only worked with USB & FireWire, I said that my drive worked with USB. (I did not test it with FireWire) Our experiences are similar.

Carl


----------



## richsadams

Clentz said:


> OK, lets try this again: Stopper 10 said that he purchased his eSATA cable @ microcenter, I said I purchased mine @ Best Buy (The Costco drive does not come with the eSATA cable) He said that the drive only worked with USB & FireWire, I said that my drive worked with USB. (I did not test it with FireWire) Our experiences are similar.
> 
> Carl


Your experiences are similar? And what does a cable have to do with anything?  We're talking about a HDD here.

Since you're new to the forum and I'm sure you meant well I've been trying to let you off the hook. But you're trying to confuse us even more with someone else's post which doesn't have much to do with or justify what you originally said. Your first post got it wrong. You made a faux pas is all.

To set the record straight I was talking about the WD 1TB Home Edition eSATA drive that Costco is selling for $299 in this post saying that it should work as an expansion drive with a Series3 Tivo (which it should).

You replied (using my post) with this statement:



Clentz said:


> I went down that path - It did not work. One of my computer parts suppliers added that internally the "Box" likely had two drives.


 If you had actually seen or used the drive in question you would have known it was a single drive to start with. If you had admitted that you had made a mistake or that you tried connecting it to a TiVo via USB and found out that it didn't work, that would have been a little embarrassing, but the end of it.

When questioned about it in this post you replied:



Clentz said:


> Except it didn't. I ended up with an hitachi.


And when questioned about it again in this post you replied:



Clentz said:


> Yes, I did buy the drive. It was not recognized (OK W/USB to computer) Note: I also saw that "Stopper10" had the same failure.


Huh??

Based on your posts we'd have to come to the conclusion that you probably never had the drive we were talking about or even if you did you never tried to properly connect it to a TiVo Series3.

The fact is (as I originally stated so long ago) that the WD 1TB My Book Home Edition eSATA drive should work as an expansion drive via P&P on a Series3 TiVo. This is based on more than six months of trial and error that many of us here have been conducting. If you or anyone else has an experience that says otherwise, it's something we need to know.

Newbies and seasoned TCF members are more than welcome to share their thoughts and factual experiences. But making stuff up isn't a good thing to do. As you're finding out, you'll get called on it pretty quickly here.

Okay? Okay, nuff said. Time to move on.


----------



## Clentz

richsadams said:


> Your experiences are similar? And what does a cable have to do with anything?  We're talking about a HDD here.
> 
> Since you're new to the forum and I'm sure you meant well I've been trying to let you off the hook. But you're trying to confuse us even more with someone else's post which doesn't have much to do with or justify what you originally said. Your first post got it wrong. You made a faux pas is all.
> 
> To set the record straight I was talking about the WD 1TB Home Edition eSATA drive that Costco is selling for $299 in this post saying that it should work as an expansion drive with a Series3 Tivo (which it should).
> 
> You replied (using my post) with this statement:
> 
> If you had actually seen or used the drive in question you would have known it was a single drive to start with. If you had admitted that you had made a mistake or that you tried connecting it to a TiVo via USB and found out that it didn't work, that would have been a little embarrassing, but the end of it.
> 
> When questioned about it in this post you replied:
> 
> And when questioned about it again in this post you replied:
> 
> Huh??
> 
> Based on your posts we'd have to come to the conclusion that you probably never had the drive we were talking about or even if you did you never tried to properly connect it to a TiVo Series3.
> 
> The fact is (as I originally stated so long ago) that the WD 1TB My Book Home Edition eSATA drive should work as an expansion drive via P&P on a Series3 TiVo. This is based on more than six months of trial and error that many of us here have been conducting. If you or anyone else has an experience that says otherwise, it's something we need to know.
> 
> Newbies and seasoned TCF members are more than welcome to share their thoughts and factual experiences. But making stuff up isn't a good thing to do. As you're finding out, you'll get called on it pretty quickly here.
> 
> Okay? Okay, nuff said. Time to move on.


Hello,
Not Quite! I would suggest you purchase the drive yourself (And a cable, as it is not supplied) and try it yourself. You would then know what WE are talking about. The only reason I joined this fourm was to warn others that this drive would not work with a S3. (I did purchase it and connect it the same way as the current setup that does work - the other person in question likely did as did: Returned the drive to Costco) THE CONNECTION to the S3 was VIA eSATA. (Not by USB as somehow you got it into your head) I did not take the "box" apart to see what was inside, as you certainly can to the "drive" that you purchase. If you do, please let us ALL know what you find. 
In my 1st post I had mentioned that when I was ordering the parts to put together an expansion drive, my supplier said that some of "My Books" had more than one drives inside. (I in no way implied that I had looked inside the "box". Several years ago I ran across a Packard Bell computer that had inside TWO drives that Bios detected as only ONE. Neither would run by it's self, they only would run as a pair. Very large for the time <4gig. WD I think) Rich, I think that you may have been retired longer than me and, perhaps taken one too many dives.

Carl


----------



## richsadams

Clentz said:


> Hello,
> Not Quite! I would suggest you purchase the drive yourself (And a cable, as it is not supplied) and try it yourself. You would then know what WE are talking about. The only reason I joined this fourm was to warn others that this drive would not work with a S3. (I did purchase it and connect it the same way as the current setup that does work - the other person in question likely did as did: Returned the drive to Costco) THE CONNECTION to the S3 was VIA eSATA. (Not by USB as somehow you got it into your head) I did not take the "box" apart to see what was inside, as you certainly can to the "drive" that you purchase. If you do, please let us ALL know what you find.
> In my 1st post I had mentioned that when I was ordering the parts to put together an expansion drive, my supplier said that some of "My Books" had more than one drives inside. (I in no way implied that I had looked inside the "box". Several years ago I ran across a Packard Bell computer that had inside TWO drives that Bios detected as only ONE. Neither would run by it's self, they only would run as a pair. Very large for the time <4gig. WD I think) Rich, I think that you may have been retired longer than me and, perhaps taken one too many dives.
> 
> Carl


Um, okay, now I understand...I think. You bought the drive in question, you properly connected it to your Series3 TiVo with an eSATA II cable from the recommended list (see #25) and it didn't work. Had you said that clearly in the beginning that would have been fine.

I guess what triggered the questioning of your credibility was what you said in your very first post on this forum:



Clentz said:


> I went down that path - It did not work. One of my computer parts suppliers added that internally the "Box" likely had two drives.
> 
> Carl


 Anyone that has any experience with external drives at all would immediately know that what we've been talking about is a single drive just by looking at it and certainly by holding it. The rest of your posts were a bit unclear overall.

Based on this somewhat better information I'll trust that you tried it (hopefully with a proper eSATA cable) and it didn't work for you. What is puzzling is why not. After reading all of the drive's specifications on the WD web site there is absolutely nothing to indicate that it won't work as a P&P expansion drive for TiVo Series3's. The drive itself is being used by a number of people here already (I have one on my desk ready for an internal install) and the enclosure is identical to what WD has been using all along...basically the same enclosure that TiVo sells as their 500GB "approved device". So it's very curious as to why it wouldn't work. Unfortunately I have more than 100 recordings saved up that I don't want to lose, so I won't be testing it myself any time soon.

FWIW, my Series1 TiVo was hacked and modded too many times to remember and retired several years ago, not me. However I _am _an avid deep sea scuba diver, thanks for noticing.


----------



## bkdtv

Can anyone confirm whether the current version of WinMFS asks you to run Mfsadd after you do a Mfscopy and/or Restore?


----------



## leeherman

richsadams said:


> Sounds good. No guarantee that a new cable will fix it, but it can't hurt.
> 
> Keep us posted. :up:


I just installed the SIIG cable with my existing drive and enclosure. No joy. It started acting up quickly with skipping audio and video.

Well, I started with the cheapest possibility, now I'm moving on to the next possibility. I ordered the Antec case recommended here. Got it on ebay from the buy.com store for $52.00 and free shipping.

I *really* hope that does it.



LH


----------



## bkdtv

I updated the link for the 12&#37; off BB coupon in the first post. Good until 12/31/08.

I also updated the first post with links to WinMFS Beta Build 8 (released today).


----------



## Burt Spielman

bkdtv said:


> Can anyone confirm whether the current version of WinMFS asks you to run Mfsadd after you do a Mfscopy and/or Restore?


Bk, as I mentioned, I never got that far. Once I have a faster transfer rate scheme (than USB 1.1) in place, I'll let you know.

Also, I'll be able to relate how I fare with Seagate 1TB drives (as far as I know, unmentioned in the FAQ). I can say, at this point, that the bare drive I initially attempted to copy to was virtually inaudible.


----------



## stretch35

No go for me so far with costco 1tb wd drive..using siig esata cable 2m..tivo3 9.2a sofrware..tivo boots about 3 times about 15 minutes to get to thx screen ..in system info doesn't show dirve attached..settings ..external devices says none detected..gonna try again as this drive has plastic button for power although I can feel drive spinning..just wondering if im waiting too long (more than 15seconds refered to in official tivo drive manual/)


----------



## stretch35

3rd try with costco drive..nothing..drive's light panel on front flashes around tivo3 just seems to ignore it siig esata cable seems snug snaps in only goes in one way..powered up..tivo poweringup message last about 5 minutes each time..after 1st five minutes of this page..goes blank for about 3seconds comes back up again to powering up..all the while all lights and tivo on oled display panel are on after 15minutes..no drive, no external storage connected, sys info no change..


----------



## richsadams

stretch35 said:


> 3rd try with costco drive..nothing..drive's light panel on front flashes around tivo3 just seems to ignore it siig esata cable seems snug snaps in only goes in one way..powered up..tivo poweringup message last about 5 minutes each time..after 1st five minutes of this page..goes blank for about 3seconds comes back up again to powering up..all the while all lights and tivo on oled display panel are on after 15minutes..no drive, no external storage connected, sys info no change..


Bummer. Sorry to hear that...so much potential and for a good price.

I wonder if it has something to do with the three-way bridge setup (USB/Firewire/eSATA)? Seems like it should work, but... 

Thanks for giving it your all! :up:


----------



## stretch35

richsadams said:


> Bummer. Sorry to hear that...so much potential and for a good price.
> 
> I wonder if it has something to do with the three-way bridge setup (USB/Firewire/eSATA)? Seems like it should work, but...
> 
> Thanks for giving it your all! :up:


maybe..just looked at it again..led 's still flashing around as if in usb or firewire mode..(I was wondering if it was going to power down or idle like my maxtor usb drive I use on my ancient computer) apparently not..gonna try again the soft touch power button on this drive seems to do nothing...led's just keep running around..wondering if when I first power up external drive it looks for esata input (while tivo still booting up ) sees nothing from tivo and just goes to usb or firewire. mode any ideas?? at least I'll let it run overnight to see how warm it gets..so far just the top is warm but not by much..sitting like a book


----------



## Clentz

richsadams said:


> Um, okay, now I understand...I think. You bought the drive in question, you properly connected it to your Series3 TiVo with an eSATA II cable from the recommended list (see #25) and it didn't work. Had you said that clearly in the beginning that would have been fine.
> 
> I guess what triggered the questioning of your credibility was what you said in your very first post on this forum:
> 
> Anyone that has any experience with external drives at all would immediately know that what we've been talking about is a single drive just by looking at it and certainly by holding it. The rest of your posts were a bit unclear overall.
> 
> Based on this somewhat better information I'll trust that you tried it (hopefully with a proper eSATA cable) and it didnt work for you. What is puzzling is why not. After reading all of the drives specifications on the WD web site there is absolutely nothing to indicate that it wont work as a P&P expansion drive for TiVo Series3s. The drive itself is being used by a number of people here already (I have one on my desk ready for an internal install) and the enclosure is identical to what WD has been using all along...basically the same enclosure that TiVo sells as their 500GB "approved device". So its very curious as to why it wouldnt work. Unfortunately I have more than 100 recordings saved up that I dont want to lose, so I wont be testing it myself any time soon.
> 
> FWIW, my Series1 TiVo was hacked and modded too many times to remember and retired several years ago, not me. However I _am _an avid deep sea scuba diver, thanks for noticing.


I had no idea that I would end up devoting as much time defending my attempt to warn people away from Costo "Drives".
1st) It is not just a drive, it HAS unknown device(s) inside of an enclosure - perhaps a drive and a bridge used for the I/O connection. *It is an external storage assembly.* The fact that someone mentioned that some versions of that storage assembly had more than one drive and I failed to consider the thickness of WDs current drives (A little less than one and one thirty second inch) and the enclosures size of 2.23 inches was quite immaterial. (It seemed doable, without investigation) My fault for even mentioning it. 
2nd) Again my fault for not including your question with my response, I just used a coma between statements.
3rd) I was not shopping for a storage assy when I saw them at Costco. (And I was thinking of its use on a satellite systems PVR for my Ex-Wife) This was on the weekend. The only eSATA cable I could find was at Best Buy (A PNY 2ft cable that was certified for 3Gb/s) 
4th) A little more info: The final spec for eSATA (3Gb/s) cable is 1.6mm (Aprox 1/16 in) longer than the 1st (Not final) version (1.5Gb/s) connector. The final spec also requires a transmit current that is 100ma more. For a passive connected setup the shorter 3ft cable should be used. (Remember it is unknown what is inside of Costcos box)

Now that I have a little more knowledge, I am getting a different enclosure for my current Hatachi drive (More cooling) and a shorter cable. I think that in all cases the shorter cable should be used, unless the enclosures bridge is buffered.

Carl


----------



## Aiken

leeherman said:


> ...I set up the drive on 11/21 and several days later started noticing skips and jumps in my recordings to the point of them being unwatchable. This also included stuff transferred from my S2. I spent the past two days copying stuff to my Tivo server and removed the drive from my S3 this evening.
> 
> With the drive removed, the S3 records and plays perfectly.
> 
> I'm wondering if anyone's experienced similar results with a non-supported setup.


I just came here because my *official* dvr expander causing this problem on my original S3. If I leave it running for 5-7 days, it starts hitching more and more. After a reboot, no new hitches occur in new recordings, but existing hitches in existing recordings persist. A week later, the process repeats.

None of this ever happened before I connected the drive last month, and now it's happened three times, which coincidentally is roughly how many week-long cycles have gone past since.

I'd have to guess that something is happening after significant uptime that is causing bad sectors to be written during recording, and this drive is possibly not set to fail quickly the way a media drive should be. That seems to cause the TiVo to have to sit there and wait for the drive to give up on the bad sector. Input seems dead but is actually getting queued up for when things unlock.

If I'm anywhere near accurate, this is worrisome. Writing bad data or creating bad sectors is not a good situation for a DVR to get into. TiVo needs to figure this one out.

Meanwhile, I'm going to start rebooting my S3 every few days.


----------



## richsadams

Aiken said:


> I just came here because my *official* dvr expander causing this problem on my original S3. If I leave it running for 5-7 days, it starts hitching more and more. After a reboot, no new hitches occur in new recordings, but existing hitches in existing recordings persist. A week later, the process repeats.
> 
> None of this ever happened before I connected the drive last month, and now it's happened three times, which coincidentally is roughly how many week-long cycles have gone past since.
> 
> I'd have to guess that something is happening after significant uptime that is causing bad sectors to be written during recording, and this drive is possibly not set to fail quickly the way a media drive should be. That seems to cause the TiVo to have to sit there and wait for the drive to give up on the bad sector. Input seems dead but is actually getting queued up for when things unlock.
> 
> If I'm anywhere near accurate, this is worrisome. Writing bad data or creating bad sectors is not a good situation for a DVR to get into. TiVo needs to figure this one out.
> 
> Meanwhile, I'm going to start rebooting my S3 every few days.


Sorry to hear that you're having some trouble. What you're describing is worrisome, but not for the reasons that you may be worried about. TiVo or really any computer isn't capable of "creating bad sectors", or really "writing bad data", unless the incoming data is getting corrupted somehow.

Bad sectors can be caused by damaging the actual platters in the hard drive (dropping it, etc.), however it's much more common to "discover" a manufacturing defect with data just now being written to that area.

Malfunctioning read/write heads can cause data corruption and things can get progressively worse. Other issues can do the same such as overheating (not uncommon in eSATA drives w/o a cooling fan and/or good ventilation) and electrical variations including surges/spikes and brownouts (all of which can go undetected).

There was an earlier report of a TiVo eSATA drive that wouldn't work and IIRC one other that had an eSATA cable with bad connectors. Both drives had to be returned to TiVo for replacement.

If there is an issue with the hard drive you can try running TiVo's diagnostic program to see if it will resolve it. Kickstart information.

So your post begs a few questions. What do you mean by "hitches"? Are all of your connections (particularly the eSATA cable) snug and not loose? Also when you're rebooting TiVo are you doing a hard reboot or a menu restart? Is your TiVo on a surge protector or even better a UPS/line conditioner?


----------



## richsadams

Clentz said:


> I had no idea that I would end up devoting as much time defending my attempt to warn people away from Costo "Drives".
> 1st) It is not just a drive, it HAS unknown device(s) inside of an enclosure - perhaps a drive and a bridge used for the I/O connection. *It is an external storage assembly.* The fact that someone mentioned that some versions of that storage assembly had more than one drive and I failed to consider the thickness of WDs current drives (A little less than one and one thirty second inch) and the enclosures size of 2.23 inches was quite immaterial. (It seemed doable, without investigation) My fault for even mentioning it.
> 2nd) Again my fault for not including your question with my response, I just used a coma between statements.
> 3rd) I was not shopping for a storage assy when I saw them at Costco. (And I was thinking of its use on a satellite systems PVR for my Ex-Wife) This was on the weekend. The only eSATA cable I could find was at Best Buy (A PNY 2ft cable that was certified for 3Gb/s)
> 4th) A little more info: The final spec for eSATA (3Gb/s) cable is 1.6mm (Aprox 1/16 in) longer than the 1st (Not final) version (1.5Gb/s) connector. The final spec also requires a transmit current that is 100ma more. For a passive connected setup the shorter 3ft cable should be used. (Remember it is unknown what is inside of Costcos box)
> 
> Now that I have a little more knowledge, I am getting a different enclosure for my current Hatachi drive (More cooling) and a shorter cable. I think that in all cases the shorter cable should be used, unless the enclosures bridge is buffered.
> 
> Carl


It looks like your warning not to use the WD 1TB Home Edition drives available at Costco for Series3 expansion drives should probably be heeded based on posts by you and others. The fact that your posts were caught up in other issues clouded things up on my part.

You are correct, shorter eSATA (and all) cables are better. The recommended SIIG cable is 1m, so just a little longer than 3ft. As long as they're kept away from EMI such as UPS systems, speakers, and not run in parallel with power cords, etc. they are usually okay. The SIIG cable has good shielding, but some of the lower quality eSATA cables don't.

A majority of the troubles over the past six months or so have been with the connectors on the eSATA cables which are either too short, come loose easily or are of poor quality. Antec's MX-1's were shipping with poor quality cables for a time although they seem to be okay now.

Didn't you already have an MX-1 enclosure? Ours runs very cool with a Seagate DB35 drive 24/7.

Thanks for the "heads up". Although all external drives have a bridge of some sort, this WD 1TB Home Edition must have something "special" about it to make it incompatible.

It's possible as *stretch35 *mentioned that it needs an immediate connection which TiVo may not provide. It's also likely using the WD 1TB GP OEM HDD and some of those installed internally have given Series3's trouble with menu restarts. Those using them in their own external enclosures don't seem to be seeing any problems though so I'm still leaning toward a bridge issue. Time will tell.


----------



## kohi

richsadams said:


> It looks like your warning not to use the WD 1TB Home Edition drives available at Costco for Series3 expansion drives should probably be heeded based on posts by you and others. The fact that your posts were caught up in other issues clouded things up on my part.
> 
> You are correct, shorter eSATA (and all) cables are better. The recommended SIIG cable is 1m, so just a little longer than 3ft. As long as they're kept away from EMI such as UPS systems, speakers, and not run in parallel with power cords, etc. they are usually okay. The SIIG cable has good shielding, but some of the lower quality eSATA cables don't.
> 
> A majority of the troubles over the past six months or so have been with the connectors on the eSATA cables which are either too short, come loose easily or are of poor quality. Antec's MX-1's were shipping with poor quality cables for a time although they seem to be okay now.
> 
> Didn't you already have an MX-1 enclosure? Ours runs very cool with a Seagate DB35 drive 24/7.
> 
> Thanks for the "heads up". Although all external drives have a bridge of some sort, this WD 1TB Home Edition must have something "special" about it to make it incompatible.
> 
> It's possible as *stretch35 *mentioned that it needs an immediate connection which TiVo may not provide. It's also likely using the WD 1TB GP OEM HDD and some of those installed internally have given Series3's trouble with menu restarts. Those using them in their own external enclosures don't seem to be seeing any problems though so I'm still leaning toward a bridge issue. Time will tell.


FWIW, used the cable that shipped with the Antec's MX-1 drive and had no issues with it. Using the Antec's MX-1 with Seagate DB35 and it is very quiet and cool. Thanks to the instructions posted here, the install was very easy. :up:


----------



## gspoto

Hello,
I'm a first time poster to this forum so please excuse me if I am asking something that has already been answered somewhere else but I have done a bit of searching here and can't find any answers...
I have a TiVo HD and am interested in adding that additional storage using the eSATA. I know that the TiVo HD units have a plug and play compatability with the WD 500 GB TiVo Branded my book external drives and that is the only drive the eSATA will be plug and play. 

What is it about those drives that make them plug and play? 

I have read the sticky thread about how to use MFSTLive to "marry" an external HD to the TiVos built in drive so that it can be used externaly, but I really don't look forward to breaking open my TiVo to try and attach the 1GB external storage of my dreams. So I am trying to find some data on what makes the branded TiVO xternal HD's so special in hopes of developing some type of workaround that keeps my TiVo (and warrenty) in tact.

Thanks!


----------



## Kenji

gspoto said:


> I know that the TiVo HD units have a plug and play compatability with the WD 500 GB TiVo Branded my book external drives and that is the only drive the eSATA will be plug and play. What is it about those drives that make them plug and play?


I believe it's the drive's model number. The TiVo HD unit can query the eSATA drive for its model number, and the only model number on the "approved" list is the model used in the WD My Book.


----------



## richsadams

gspoto said:


> Hello,
> I'm a first time poster to this forum so please excuse me if I am asking something that has already been answered somewhere else but I have done a bit of searching here and can't find any answers...
> I have a TiVo HD and am interested in adding that additional storage using the eSATA. I know that the TiVo HD units have a plug and play compatability with the WD 500 GB TiVo Branded my book external drives and that is the only drive the eSATA will be plug and play.
> 
> What is it about those drives that make them plug and play?
> 
> I have read the sticky thread about how to use MFSTLive to "marry" an external HD to the TiVos built in drive so that it can be used externaly, but I really don't look forward to breaking open my TiVo to try and attach the 1GB external storage of my dreams. So I am trying to find some data on what makes the branded TiVO xternal HD's so special in hopes of developing some type of workaround that keeps my TiVo (and warrenty) in tact.
> 
> Thanks!


Welcome to the forum!

*Kenji *is correct, that model number is the only one that TiVo HD's can use as it is built into the OS/software. "Experts" with many years of experience hacking TiVos (namely Spike at MFSLive.org and others) have been working on this for several months and to date they haven't been able to crack the code. Even if they do, it would almost certainly require a hard drive removal and upgrade anyway.

The only work-around is to perform the internal upgrade work you mention.


----------



## gspoto

Kenji said:


> I believe it's the drive's model number. The TiVo HD unit can query the eSATA drive for its model number, and the only model number on the "approved" list is the model used in the WD My Book.


Wow...ok. That is interesting.
Since I am more of a software guy then a hardware guy I am guessing that there model number somehow stored perminantly on a PROM somehow on the HD.

So if that is the case, how does "marrying" a new non approved external; drive work? What is done in this process that makes the TiVo HD ok with this device? If I read the documentatin on how to use MFST marrying a drive doesn't make any changes to the stock TiVo drive.


----------



## bkdtv

gspoto said:


> So if that is the case, how does "marrying" a new non approved external; drive work? What is done in this process that makes the TiVo HD ok with this device? If I read the documentatin on how to use MFST marrying a drive doesn't make any changes to the stock TiVo drive.


Basically, an external drive must be prepared (married to internal drive) before it will work. The TivoHD will only do that preparation for the Western Digital My DVR Expander.

But TiVo does not stop you from using external drives prepared using other means. That's what WinMFS does; it prepares (marries) the external drive just as the TiVo normally would, except it will work with any drive.


----------



## stretch35

Got off phone with level2 tech at WD..costco esata my book 1terabyte drive won't work in his words..he mention the official tivo drive..1 terabyte maybe next year..now with some problems with the offical drive starting to show up..and with an on going writer's strike..I'm tempted to just bag the whole idea..got 2 hd capable tivos 3 &hd) what is involved in using antec mx-1 and wd caviar 1terabyte drive..is there a cable inside mx-1that links drive to esata port on the inside??


----------



## gspoto

bkdtv said:


> Basically, an external drive must be prepared (married to internal drive) before it will work. The TivoHD will only do that preparation for the Western Digital My DVR Expander.
> 
> But TiVo does not stop you from using external drives prepared using other means. That's what WinMFS does; it prepares (marries) the external drive just as the TiVo normally would, except it will work with any drive.


Ok... that makes sense to me.
So once an external drive is preped, is there anything that keeps an image of a clean "preped" drive from being placed onto a new clean drive that hasn't been preped?

BTW... Thank you all (Kenji, Rich, bkdtv)for making a new poster feel welcome.

Greg


----------



## gspoto

stretch35 said:


> Got off phone with level2 tech at WD..costco esata my book 1terabyte drive won't work in his words..he mention the official tivo drive..1 terabyte maybe next year..now with some problems with the offical drive starting to show up..and with an on going writer's strike..I'm tempted to just bag the whole idea..got 2 hd capable tivos 3 &hd) what is involved in using antec mx-1 and wd caviar 1terabyte drive..is there a cable inside mx-1that links drive to esata port on the inside??


I have used for some time an old pentium 3 PC networked with TiVo Series 2. The PC did nothing but hold some big HDs and run the TiVO desktop. With the recent desktop versions having an auto download feature and the TiVo being able to stream back from the PC I have used this setup for awhile to act as external storage in the series 2 era. I haven't tried it with the HD content yet, but I expect that the HD stream will not keep up playing live because of the file size. But in the short term it is a (almost) adequate solution. Not like having a bunch of HD programming at your fingertips... but it is better then nothing.


----------



## kohi

stretch35 said:


> Got off phone with level2 tech at WD..costco esata my book 1terabyte drive won't work in his words..he mention the official tivo drive..1 terabyte maybe next year..now with some problems with the offical drive starting to show up..and with an on going writer's strike..I'm tempted to just bag the whole idea..got 2 hd capable tivos 3 &hd) what is involved in using antec mx-1 and wd caviar 1terabyte drive..is there a cable inside mx-1that links drive to esata port on the inside??


Check out the MX-1 Video Demonstration ---> http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=77150

It's pretty thorough.

Hope that helps.

Kohi


----------



## Aiken

richsadams said:


> TiVo or really any computer isn't capable of "creating bad sectors", or really "writing bad data", unless the incoming data is getting corrupted somehow.


I know. Let's start by saying I'm a senior software engineer and I work on low-level driver-like software for a living.

You can absolutely create bad *data* on the drive if something is severely slowing down the OS. Drivers are not quite as susceptible to things like virtual memory thrashing as regular code, but it's pretty well known that there's a memory fragmentation leak somewhere in TiVos that slows down the UI as uptime increases, and it's conceivable that the drivers are missing an interrupt or allowing a write buffer to starve or something.

It's also possible that there's a memory corruption problem which is causing problems with the drive controller's current mode/settings. I've seen the mpeg decoder get into a bad state, so there's no reason to assume the drive controller is any safer from this.



> Bad sectors can be caused by damaging the actual platters in the hard drive (dropping it, etc.),


Anyone who owned a commodore 64 could tell you that it's also possible to produce deliberate bad sectors through software. As long as you have enough low-level control, or as long as you can mess up whatever does have low-level control of the drive, it doesn't necessarily require a physical problem.



> however it's much more common to "discover" a manufacturing defect with data just now being written to that area.


Not impossible, but given that all I'm resetting each week is the OS, it seems unlikely. It's also unlikely that I'd get to the pretty much same conditions in pretty much the same span of time three times in a row if it were a random encounter with a bad area of the platter(s). I'd expect to find the bad area after a day or ten or thirty, not exactly a week each time.

On the other hand, a week is pretty much exactly how long a TiVo usually takes to start bogging down.



> Other issues can do the same such as overheating (not uncommon in eSATA drives w/o a cooling fan and/or good ventilation)


The enclosure doesn't even seem to be as warm as my hand.



> and electrical variations including surges/spikes and brownouts (all of which can go undetected).


Power is coming from a power conditioner. Also, as pointed out above, power issues should be random and not weekly-periodic.



> If there is an issue with the hard drive you can try running TiVo's diagnostic program


Yeah, I may just do that.



> So your post begs a few questions. What do you mean by "hitches"?


Hitches in this case are the mpeg decoder being starved for input. It appears to me that the usual readahead is stalled on a read that is taking far too long, which is usually the symptom of a drive internally retrying the read due to a problem/error. Eventually, something times out and the show picks up a little later where the data is good again. During the stall, no UI input works, though it is queued up and executed after the stall.



> Are all of your connections (particularly the eSATA cable) snug and not loose?


Yup, not to mention hidden away from the wife's cleaning hands.



> Also when you're rebooting TiVo are you doing a hard reboot or a menu restart?


It's a soft reboot. Reinit the OS/drivers.



> Is your TiVo on a surge protector or even better a UPS/line conditioner?


The TiVo and the drive are both powered by a line conditioner.


----------



## richsadams

Aiken said:


> I know. Let's start by saying I'm a senior software engineer and I work on low-level driver-like software for a living.
> 
> You can absolutely create bad *data* on the drive if something is severely slowing down the OS. Drivers are not quite as susceptible to things like virtual memory thrashing as regular code, but it's pretty well known that there's a memory fragmentation/leak somewhere in TiVos that slows down the UI as uptime increases, and it's conceivable that the drivers are missing an interrupt or allowing a write buffer to starve or something.
> 
> It's also possible that there's a memory corruption problem which is causing problems with the drive controller's current mode/settings. There's a known issue where the mpeg decoder can get into a bad state, so there's no reason to assume the drive controller is any safer from this.
> 
> Anyone who owned a commodore 64 could tell you that it's also possible to produce deliberate bad sectors through software. As long as you have enough low-level control, or as long as you can mess up whatever does have low-level control of the drive, it doesn't necessarily require a physical problem.
> 
> Not impossible, but given that all I'm resetting each week is the OS, it seems unlikely. It's also unlikely that I'd get to the pretty much same conditions in pretty much the same span of time three times in a row if it were a random encounter with a bad area of the platter(s). I'd expect to find the bad area after a day or ten or thirty, not exactly a week each time.
> 
> On the other hand, a week is pretty much exactly how long a TiVo usually takes to start bogging down.
> 
> The enclosure doesn't even seem to be as warm as my hand.
> 
> Power is coming from a power conditioner. Also, as pointed out above, power issues should be random and not weekly-periodic.
> 
> Yeah, I may just do that.
> 
> Hitches in this case are the mpeg decoder being starved for input. It appears to me that the usual readahead is stalled on a read that is taking far too long, which is usually the symptom of a drive internally retrying the read due to a problem/error. Eventually, something times out and the show picks up a little later where the data is good again. During the stall, no UI input works, though it is queued up and executed after the stall.
> 
> Yup, not to mention hidden away from the wife's cleaning hands.
> 
> It's a soft reboot. Reinit the OS/drivers.
> 
> The TiVo and the drive are both powered by a line conditioner.


Um, okay. You're the expert. Let us know what you find out when you figure it out.

Then you'll probably want to work on deleting your double posts...something a little less technical in nature.


----------



## Clentz

richsadams said:


> It looks like your warning not to use the WD 1TB Home Edition drives available at Costco for Series3 expansion drives should probably be heeded based on posts by you and others. The fact that your posts were caught up in other issues clouded things up on my part.
> 
> You are correct, shorter eSATA (and all) cables are better. The recommended SIIG cable is 1m, so just a little longer than 3ft. As long as they're kept away from EMI such as UPS systems, speakers, and not run in parallel with power cords, etc. they are usually okay. The SIIG cable has good shielding, but some of the lower quality eSATA cables don't.
> 
> A majority of the troubles over the past six months or so have been with the connectors on the eSATA cables which are either too short, come loose easily or are of poor quality. Antec's MX-1's were shipping with poor quality cables for a time although they seem to be okay now.
> 
> Didn't you already have an MX-1 enclosure? Ours runs very cool with a Seagate DB35 drive 24/7.
> 
> Thanks for the "heads up". Although all external drives have a bridge of some sort, this WD 1TB Home Edition must have something "special" about it to make it incompatible.
> 
> It's possible as *stretch35 *mentioned that it needs an immediate connection which TiVo may not provide. It's also likely using the WD 1TB GP OEM HDD and some of those installed internally have given Series3's trouble with menu restarts. Those using them in their own external enclosures don't seem to be seeing any problems though so I'm still leaning toward a bridge issue. Time will tell.


 I misquoted, I should have said 1 meter instead of three feet. (~3 in error) Perhaps it stems from my inability to adapt. When I was in school, us students were told that the units of measurement would be changing to metric. I have not really seen this and never have gotten used to those measurements in plus 65 years. 
Has anyone gotten inside of Costcos box to see what is inside? It could be .. There is no guarantee that the HDD is even the same drive that WD is marketing as their 1TB green drive.

Carl


----------



## Aiken

richsadams said:


> Um, okay. You're the expert. Let us know what you find out when you figure it out.
> 
> Then you'll probably want to work on deleting your double posts...something a little less technical in nature.


That's odd. I came back to my computer hours after writing the post and it appeared I had never actually submitted the post. I then looked over the thread to make sure I hadn't, and it wasn't there, so I submitted it. I don't know how I managed to miss it, since it would still have been the very last post in the thread.

Anyway, I really appreciate your response. It always brightens my day to see someone get their priorities in order and take care of their own ego. Too many people neglect theirs. Still, no matter how awesome your post was, this is all off-topic and we should probably try to get back on course.

It should be interesting to see if anyone else with a TiVo-blessed expander reports similar symptoms. For everyone's sake, I suppose I hope no one does, but if it really is a software issue, I hope enough of us report it for it to get attention. It has to be people reporting the TiVo-blessed expander, though, since third-party drives like that of the poster I responded to aren't officially supported and so probably won't be a high debugging priority.


----------



## richsadams

Clentz said:


> I misquoted, I should have said 1 meter instead of three feet. (~3 in error) Perhaps it stems from my inability to adapt. When I was in school, us students were told that the units of measurement would be changing to metric. I have not really seen this and never have gotten used to those measurements in plus 65 years.
> Has anyone gotten inside of Costcos box to see what is inside? It could be .. There is no guarantee that the HDD is even the same drive that WD is marketing as their 1TB green drive.
> 
> Carl


AFAIK it's the only 1TB drive WD is manufacturing right now; nothing else on their website. It's being used inside the Apricorn Xpander as well.

BTW, don't be so hard on yourself. 1 meter = 3.2808399 feet.


----------



## bkdtv

Is anyone successfully using a WD My Book 1TB with their TiVo? I've seen several posts from different members reporting issues with that drive.

Western Digital may be using a bridge chip in that product that is incompatible with the TiVo.


----------



## richsadams

bkdtv said:


> Is anyone successfully using a WD My Book 1TB with their TiVo? I've seen several posts from different members reporting issues with that drive.
> 
> Western Digital may be using a bridge chip in that product that is incompatible with the TiVo.


Based on all of the posts to date, I don't think anyone's had any luck with that drive.

I also speculated that it's the three-way bridge a while back...seems like the only thing that could be causing the problem.


----------



## sailomb

I have been trying to install a 1TD eSata HD from WD also. I am having issues. Here is the history:

1. 6 months ago I installed a 500GB eSATA WD external HD to my series3 using the kickstart method. It worked as normal.

2. The drive was fine after 9.2 update.

3. I found a WD 1TB Essential edition (USB 2.0 only) at Circuit City on Sale on Black Friday. So I bought it.

4. I took it a part and it has a WD 1TB green drive in it. 

5. I then backed up my tivo recordings to the PC using TivoToGo. This took more than 24hrs. I had alot to back up.

6. I powered down the TIVO by disconnecting power. I removed the 500GB eSATA drive and took it apart. I put the 1TB green drive in the 500GB eSATA enclosure so now I have a 1TB green drive with eSATA.

7. I plugged it in the TIVO with the same eSATA cable that worked fine. 

8. After the power up, TIVO error saying "There is a major issue with TIVO. This can take up to 3 HOURS to repair" Tivo goes on to do a diagnostic and about 15 mins later it booted back up. My new 1TB HD was seen by system info as an installed external device. Buy yet the capacity was only 32 HRS for HD (250GB internal drive). 

9. I went into settings to enable the drive but nothing happened. It did not give me the next page that says external drive detected. 

10. I reboot 2 more times and same thing... I'm worried.

11. I turn off TIVO. I removed the drive. I rebooted with TIVO only. It now tells me that an external drive was removed. So I hit clear and rebooted anyways. 

12. After the reboot, I turn off TIVO again and installed the drive. Everything seems to be working alot better now. I went in and enabled the drive and it TIVO allowed me to do this. TIVO then rebooted and I now have 165 HRS of HD recording.

I think the key here was to have TIVO reboot with no drives attached before attaching another drive. Hope this helps someone. By the way I got the 1TB drive for $200 (after a mail in rebate).


----------



## bkdtv

sailomb said:


> I think the key here was to have TIVO reboot with no drives attached before attaching another drive. Hope this helps someone. By the way I got the 1TB drive for $200 (after a mail in rebate).


Yes, you need to "unmarry" the original drive before you add a new one. This is accomplished by booting the TiVo without the drive you want to replace.

Did you ever try the WD My Book 1Tb with its original enclosure? Were you able to work?


----------



## bkdtv

richsadams said:


> Based on all of the posts to date, I don't think anyone's had any luck with that drive.
> 
> I also speculated that it's the three-way bridge a while back...seems like the only thing that could be causing the problem.


Thanks, I'll add a "drives confirmed *not* to work" section to the first post.


----------



## sailomb

bkdtv said:


> Yes, you need to "unmarry" the original drive before you add a new one. This is accomplished by booting the TiVo without the drive you want to replace.
> 
> Did you ever try the WD My Book 1Tb with its original enclosure? Were you able to work?


The WD My Book 1Tb I got was a USB 2.0 version. That is why I had to swap out the drives.


----------



## Burt Spielman

Burt Spielman said:


> I have a USB 2.0 PCI card on order. At about 40 times the transfer rate, the copy will still take several hours, but, at least, it will be manageable. (Yes, I could have ordered a more expensive eSATA card, but I've already got the USB-to-SATA adapters mentioned in bkdtv's FAQ.)
> 
> So, for now, the 750GB drive goes back into the TiVo S3 until I can start this process again. Stay tuned!


Well, I'm still waiting for the USB 2.0 PCI card for our old PC. In the meantime, I decided to experiment with WinMFS on my Intel iMac running Windows XP Pro SP2 with Parallels Desktop. The Mac has USB 2.0 ports, so I figured I'd have little to lose by trying.

Sure enough, I was able to run WinMFS, which recognized the 750GB drive removed from the TiVo S3 and the 1TB drive intended to replace it. I was able to use the "backup" command in WinMFS to create a file on the Windows desktop. Just for the record, it took 1:05 to create a 252MB file on a 2GHz Intel Core Duo (not the latest Core 2 Duo or Core 2 Extreme) iMac, using the USB-to-SATA adapters specified in the FAQ.

However, the mfscopy stalled after several hours, acting much the same way it did on the PIII PC. The adapters have LEDs, green and red, that display activity. During my earlier attempts using the USB 1.1 ports on the PC, these blinked, alternately red then green, quite slowly, until I lost patience with WinMFS's inability to display the progress of the copy and aborted the copy.

Using the USB 2.0 ports on the Mac, the blinking on the adapters was much faster, so much so that the red and green LEDs appeared to be on simultaneously on both adapters. But, after a few hours, the adapter on the 750GB drive shows both red and green, steadily on, while the 1TB adapter is green with no blinking.

Meanwhile, Windows reports WinMFS as "not responding," even though, initially, it was working, just as noted in the FAQ. (Ah, Windows! "Not responding" means it's working! Is that anything like clicking on the "Start" button to shut down? Makes perfect sense to me!)

By the way, because of the inadvertent omission of the crucial mfscopy step in the FAQ when I initially started this, I did mfsadd only, as I described in an earlier post. WinMFS displays both the 750GB and the 1TB drives as TiVo formatted. Could the format of the 1TB drive be interfering with the mfscopy? On the PC as well as on the Mac?

To say the least, I'm puzzled by all of this. Someone here has suggested that I might be better off downloading the MFSLive Boot CD image and launching the program in Linux directly from the disk. If I have to resort to that, I'll need additional cabling and another PCI card to attach the SATA drives to the ancient PC.

I'd appreciate comments/guidance here. This process is definitely not (at least for the moment) as straightforward as described. For the moment, the 750GB drive goes back into the TiVo again.


----------



## richsadams

sailomb said:


> I have been trying to install a 1TD eSata HD from WD also. I am having issues. Here is the history:
> 
> 1. 6 months ago I installed a 500GB eSATA WD external HD to my series3 using the kickstart method. It worked as normal.
> 
> 2. The drive was fine after 9.2 update.
> 
> 3. I found a WD 1TB Essential edition (USB 2.0 only) at Circuit City on Sale on Black Friday. So I bought it.
> 
> 4. I took it a part and it has a WD 1TB green drive in it.
> 
> 5. I then backed up my tivo recordings to the PC using TivoToGo. This took more than 24hrs. I had alot to back up.
> 
> 6. I powered down the TIVO by disconnecting power. I removed the 500GB eSATA drive and took it apart. I put the 1TB green drive in the 500GB eSATA enclosure so now I have a 1TB green drive with eSATA.
> 
> 7. I plugged it in the TIVO with the same eSATA cable that worked fine.
> 
> 8. After the power up, TIVO error saying "There is a major issue with TIVO. This can take up to 3 HOURS to repair" Tivo goes on to do a diagnostic and about 15 mins later it booted back up. My new 1TB HD was seen by system info as an installed external device. Buy yet the capacity was only 32 HRS for HD (250GB internal drive).
> 
> 9. I went into settings to enable the drive but nothing happened. It did not give me the next page that says external drive detected.
> 
> 10. I reboot 2 more times and same thing... I'm worried.
> 
> 11. I turn off TIVO. I removed the drive. I rebooted with TIVO only. It now tells me that an external drive was removed. So I hit clear and rebooted anyways.
> 
> 12. After the reboot, I turn off TIVO again and installed the drive. Everything seems to be working alot better now. I went in and enabled the drive and it TIVO allowed me to do this. TIVO then rebooted and I now have 165 HRS of HD recording.
> 
> I think the key here was to have TIVO reboot with no drives attached before attaching another drive. Hope this helps someone. By the way I got the 1TB drive for $200 (after a mail in rebate).


Thanks very much for posting all of the detailed info. If only others would be as specific!  I read and re-read all of the steps you took and I think I see one error (which *bkdtv *pointed out earlier...and I missed until just now ).

It appears that you did not properly divorce your original eSATA drive from TiVo before installing the new eSATA drive. Although all you did was swap one drive for another, TiVo recognizes eSATA drives by model number.

When you re-booted TiVo with the "new" eSATA drive attached it would have been looking for your original eSATA drive. Not finding it caused it to believe there was data corruption. It properly went into diagnostic mode; triggering an MFS assert (GSOD), which marks the file system as being damaged. The repair process detects and repairs inode/data problems, and then runs mfscheck to clean up database and directory problems.

So the lesson here appears to be that if you're going to swap out an eSATA drive for another one, be sure to divorce the existing drive first.

1. Unplug TiVo.
2. Disconnect the AC cord and eSATA cable from the eSATA drive.
3. Plug TiVo back in and follow the onscreen divorce instructions.
4. After TiVo has fully rebooted w/o the eSATA drive unplug it again.
5. Plug the new eSATA drive in, turn it on and connect the eSATA cable.
6. Plug TiVo in and follow the screen instructions to marry the new drive.

Divorces can be messy.  Glad to hear your new marriage working out! :up:

BTW, if you happen to look at your new drive again, can you post the full model number? It should be one of these two:

WD10EACS-*00ZJB0* (OEM)

WD10EACS-*32ZJB0* (Retail)

It'll help others in the future...your chance to give back to the community!


----------



## gwsat

I continue to follow this thread, albeit fitfully, because of the depth of knowledge and experience you regular posters to the thread exhibit about adding eSATA drives to S3s and HDs. Despite the great work of all of you who have gone before me, I am still putting off adding an eSATA drive to my S3. So far, the mild inconvenience of being limited to 250 gig of recording capacity bothers me less that the risks currently inherent in adding a 1 TB eSATA drive. I don't want to add anything smaller. Maybe WD will add one that TiVo blesses sometime. I hope so


----------



## keenanSR

gwsat said:


> I continue to follow this thread, albeit fitfully, because of the depth of knowledge and experience you regular posters to the thread exhibit about adding eSATA drives to S3s and HDs. Despite the great work of all of you who have gone before me, I am still putting off adding an eSATA drive to my S3. So far, the mild inconvenience of being limited to 250 gig of recording capacity bothers me less that the risks currently inherent in adding a 1 TB eSATA drive. I don't want to add anything smaller. Maybe WD will add one that TiVo blesses sometime. I hope so


I assume you're looking for an out-of-the-box solution? The 1-TB Hitachi that Best Buy has on sale for $199 on occasion work great, but you'll need to remove the drive from the USB case and use an eSATA case. I picked up 2 more of these drives at that price just before turkeyday, they are not back to around $360 I believe.

I use an Antec MX-1 which has also worked perfectly, those can be found occasionally for about $40 when on sale. So far about $240 I've got a 1-TB solution that so far seems to be bullet-proof.

It takes about 15 mins to extract and re-house the drive, very, very, low on the technical ability scale.

Food for thought anyway.


----------



## BigHat

My std Western Digital external drive is on backorder.

My question fort you pros:

Should I just cnx the order and get another drive (same or bigger)?


----------



## richsadams

BigHat said:


> My std Western Digital external drive is on backorder.
> 
> My question fort you pros:
> 
> Should I just cnx the order and get another drive (same or bigger)?


Guess it depends on what you mean by "std Western Digital external drive...", how much space you need, what model TiVo you have, etc. Need some more info.

BTW, pros at what?


----------



## Bodie

jlib said:


> Not if you discern no head seek noise.


Thanks, I can only hear anything if I get down right next to it, so it stays the way it is.


----------



## BigHat

richsadams said:


> Guess it depends on what you mean by "std Western Digital external drive...", how much space you need, what model TiVo you have, etc. Need some more info.
> 
> BTW, pros at what?


Sorry,
To answer your questions. I meant the Tivo expansion drive that's marketed as such. I have S3s. In terms of capacity; can there be too much space? 

Actually, I have a 500mb drive in one S3 already, so 500mb would likely be enough, but a TB drive would be nice.

I guess the point is the drives at BB and Tivo store are backordered and wondered if there are other plug and play options.

Thanks.


----------



## brettatk

BigHat said:


> I guess the point is the drives at BB and Tivo store are backordered and wondered if there are other plug and play options.
> 
> Thanks.


Since you have a S3 and not a HD Tivo, I've heard that with the new update from Tivo the Apricorn Xpander drive is plug and play. You can get a 1TB drive for like $379 I think. Here is the link:

http://www.apricorn.com/product_detail.php?type=family&id=37


----------



## StuRothrock

I received my Series 3 HD yesterday - I let it cook all night to see if it would download the update. It did not. 

I forced a "Connect to the TiVo service now" - It installed 9.2a-01-2-648 - rebooted with 1TB WDC WD10EACS green drive - received a message that it found the external drive - rebooted - It was all very sweet - System Information reveals - up to 165HD hours, or 1561 SD hours.

I can't wait to get a 4 drive external eSata case to see what TiVo reports - hehehehe!!!!!


----------



## gwsat

keenanSR said:


> I assume you're looking for an out-of-the-box solution? The 1-TB Hitachi that Best Buy has on sale for $199 on occasion work great, but you'll need to remove the drive from the USB case and use an eSATA case. I picked up 2 more of these drives at that price just before turkeyday, they are not back to around $360 I believe.
> 
> I use an Antec MX-1 which has also worked perfectly, those can be found occasionally for about $40 when on sale. So far about $240 I've got a 1-TB solution that so far seems to be bullet-proof.
> 
> It takes about 15 mins to extract and re-house the drive, very, very, low on the technical ability scale.
> 
> Food for thought anyway.


Keenan  Thanks, I will look at that. The MX-1 housing has clearly proved itself and $200 for an Hitachi 1 TB drive that will work with the TiVo S3 in that enclosure is tempting. Unfortunately, as of about 5 minutes ago the Hitachi DeskStar 1 TB internal drive is $330 on BBs Web site. Ill continue to keep an eye out at BB to see if it goes on sale again, though.


----------



## richsadams

BigHat said:


> Sorry,
> To answer your questions. I meant the Tivo expansion drive that's marketed as such. I have S3s. In terms of capacity; can there be too much space?
> 
> Actually, I have a 500mb drive in one S3 already, so 500mb would likely be enough, but a TB drive would be nice.
> 
> I guess the point is the drives at BB and Tivo store are backordered and wondered if there are other plug and play options.
> 
> Thanks.


As *brettatk *points out, Apricorn's DVR Xpanders are a good P&P solution...whichever size you like. They are fan-cooled, come with a good eSATA cable and a number of folks here have been using them for a while. Their 1TB model uses Western Digital's new "green" drive which others here are using as well.

Since you have a Series3 you can pick from a variety of expansion drives on the recommended list on the first post of this thread (note the ones that are _not _recommended as well). Included are some very easy DIY options which only entail buying a drive and an enclosure to put it in. A few mounting screws later and ta-dah...a new drive! See #'s 25 - 28. DIY is considerably less expensive in most cases.

Our Seagate DB35 drive/Antec MX-1 enclosure has worked flawlessly with our S3 for about seven months now.

Good luck and let us know what you settle on. :up:


----------



## keenanSR

gwsat said:


> Keenan  Thanks, I will look at that. The MX-1 housing has clearly proved itself and $200 for an Hitachi 1 TB drive that will work with the TiVo S3 in that enclosure is tempting. Unfortunately, as of about 5 minutes ago the Hitachi DeskStar 1 TB internal drive is $330 on BBs Web site. Ill continue to keep an eye out at BB to see if it goes on sale again, though.


Yes, you'll have to keep watch. It's been on sale twice that I can remember. Also, the sale price has been pulled before the normal Sat at midnight cutoff they use normally so you really have to act quickly.


----------



## thilt

brettatk said:


> Since you have a S3 and not a HD Tivo, I've heard that with the new update from Tivo the Apricorn Xpander drive is plug and play. You can get a 1TB drive for like $379 I think. Here is the link:
> 
> http://www.apricorn.com/product_detail.php?type=family&id=37


FWIW, the 1TB Apricorn DVR Xpander is about $20 or so cheaper at Newegg.


----------



## richsadams

thilt said:


> FWIW, the 1TB Apricorn DVR Xpander is about $20 or so cheaper at Newegg.


Good info. Thanks for that. :up:

Apricorn had a $50 rebate on it last week...but that's evaporated.


----------



## leeherman

Well, I finally gave up on expanding my new S3 with an eSATA drive.

I posted earlier in this thread about "stuttering" and pixelation I began experiencing as soon as I connected a "non supported" drive to my S3. I was using an external case and cable I'd been using successfully with my SA Explorer 8300HD. The only change was using a new 500 gbyte WD drive instead of the 300 gbyte drive used with the 8300HD.

Based on what I've read in this thread, I bought the recommended SIIG cable. No luck. Same problem. I then bought the recommended Antec MX-1 enclosure, placed my new drive in it and connected it with the SIIG cable. No joy. Finally, I tried the old, successful 300 gbyte drive. Again, stuttering and pixelating.

I've already sunk $200 in enclosures, drive, and cable. At this point I give up. I put the 300 gbyte drive from my old SA DVR in my Tivo server PC and will transfer programming to the Tivo server if the S3's drive fills up.

Naturally, I'll gladly listen to any suggestions anyone might have, but I don't see myself spending another $200 to get the "supported" drive. I'm not confident it'll work any better.

Is it possible to add a second drive INTERNALLY to an S3 like I did to my S2? Anyone here with any experience in doing that?

Thanks!

LH


----------



## lrhorer

gspoto said:


> Ok... that makes sense to me.
> So once an external drive is preped, is there anything that keeps an image of a clean "preped" drive from being placed onto a new clean drive that hasn't been preped?


I'm not sure what you are asking. If you want to copy the contents of you internal drive to another drive of the same size, the Linux dd command can do it. If you want to make a compressed backup of the data on your internal drive, or copy it to a larger internal drive, WinMFS or MFSLive can do it. If you merely want to expand your TiVo, and 1.25T is enough for you, then just add a 1TB external drive using mfsadd and be done with it.


----------



## lrhorer

Burt Spielman said:


> To say the least, I'm puzzled by all of this. Someone here has suggested that I might be better off downloading the MFSLive Boot CD image and launching the program in Linux directly from the disk. If I have to resort to that, I'll need additional cabling and another PCI card to attach the SATA drives to the ancient PC.
> 
> I'd appreciate comments/guidance here. This process is definitely not (at least for the moment) as straightforward as described. For the moment, the 750GB drive goes back into the TiVo again.


It's really not hat difficult, but yes, IMO, the MFSLive CD is the way to go. I think first, however, you need to put straight in your mind what you want to do and exactly what steps you will be taking to do it.

Now that in itself is not as simple as it sounds, but on the other hand if done carefully it will likely be the most difficult part of the process.

Decision 1: Backup or don't

Common sense says no matter what you should back up, and it is my recommendation to you. I have never attempted a TiVo upgrade without some level of backup, and it has saved my butt on more than one occasion. If you decide not to backup, things get much simpler, and quicker but if you wind up with a bricked TiVo, don't blame anyone but yourself.

Decision 2: Level of backup

Assuming you are going to backup, you need to decide at what level the backup will occur. At the minimum level, you will need a single drive the same size or larger than your current drive. If you are going to a larger drive, you can copy the entire original drive to the new larger drive and increase the partition to fill the new drive. In this case, the original drive is the "backup", and it will be put onto the shelf for the rest of the operations. It's a fairly secure operation and it gets you a larger internal drive as a starting point for further expansion.

Alternately you can have an extra drive the same size as your internal drive and copy everything over to it before continuing. This is the belt-and-suspenders approach, and it will take some extra time, but for the first time TiVo hacker it's not a bad idea. A compromise solution is to just copy the running partitions, rather than the data from all the partitions. This doesn't guarantee you won't wind up losing all the recorded programs, but at least you won't brick the TiVo and it takes much less time.

Decision 3: Level of expansion

Level 1: Add an external drive without changing the internal drive

If you have a stock TiVo, this can result in up to 1.25TB of storage, with a single 1TB external drive. If you bought an expanded TiVo, it can result in up to 2TB. Some users have successfully expanded their TiVos using an eSATA RAID array. The S3 is limited to 2.2TB. The HD TIvo is not, but I do not know what the largest HD TiVo in existence might be. This method is extremely fast. Excluding backups, it only takes a few moments once the drives are mounted in the PC.

Level 2: Increase the size of the internal drive.

This is much more difficult and time consuming unless you don't care about losing the current recordings. The difference between 1.25TB and 2.0TB with single drive solutions is not much, but if you ever intend to upgrade the internal drive I suggest you go ahead and do it at the outset before any other upgrade.

Level 3: Increase the size of the internal drive and add an external drive

This really is not any more of a significant upgrade than Level 2. It just requires an extra drive.

Decision 4: Hardware

If you don't intend to do a backup (remember, you were warned!!!) and only intend to do a Level 1 upgrade, then the only hardware you need is the external drive and how slow the drive subsystem might be is not an issue.

If you only intend to copy the running partitions, then even a USB to SATA adapter is probably OK, but I don't recommend it.

If you intend to copy or backup anything more than the running partitions, I definitely recommend a native PCI x4 or x16 SATA adapter. Anything else is absurd. It may avoid other issues, as well.

Decision 5: Software

To some extent, this also depends on what decisions were made above. If you have a stock drive in your TiVo and you only want to do a Level 1 upgrade, it really doesn't matter much. Otherwise, I do recommend MFSLive. There are fewer pitfalls, and it's faster. If you don't have a stock drive, then my understanding is at the moment it is the only way to go.

Oh, by the way, I would think you might be able to borrow someone else's PC for a few hours to do the upgrade, rather than trying to make the ancient PC do the job.


----------



## lrhorer

leeherman said:


> Well, I finally gave up on expanding my new S3 with an eSATA drive.


That's too bad. Many of us have done it with no problems.



leeherman said:


> The only change was using a new 500 gbyte WD drive instead of the 300 gbyte drive used with the 8300HD.


OK, but which drive, specifically? Is it one which other users have successfully used? Some drives are definitely problematic with the TiVo. Note the 8300HD has had its share of problems with certain drives, as well.



leeherman said:


> I bought the recommended SIIG cable. No luck. Same problem. I then bought the recommended Antec MX-1 enclosure, placed my new drive in it and connected it with the SIIG cable. No joy. Finally, I tried the old, successful 300 gbyte drive. Again, stuttering and pixelating.


I've used both a Seagate Barracuda 750G married with a stock TiVo 250G and a pair of Hitachi 1TB drives. Both the 750 and one of the 1TB drives are in Antec MX-1 housings. Other than occasional (fairly rare) autonomous reboots apparently caused by using the stock Antec eSATA cable, the setups run flawlessly.



leeherman said:


> Naturally, I'll gladly listen to any suggestions anyone might have, but I don't see myself spending another $200 to get the "supported" drive. I'm not confident it'll work any better.


Well, it wouldn't be my preferred method of handling the situation, but note since the drive is supported officially by TiVo, if it doesn't work they are compelled to get it working, whatever it takes.



leeherman said:


> Is it possible to add a second drive INTERNALLY to an S3 like I did to my S2? Anyone here with any experience in doing that?


It might be hypothetically possible, but I wouldn't recommend trying. First of all, other than geography there really isn't any significant difference between an internal and external drive. They use the same controller and the same SATA port. Secondly, as I recall there really isn't any space inside the case for a second drive, and there certainly isn't an available bracket.

Before attempting anything of this sort, I would recommend upgrading your internal drive, or preferably getting one of the drives known to work. For the former you could go with one of PTV Upgrade's or Weaknees' pre-configured drives. For the latter, a Hitachi 1TB is my favorite. The Seagate Barracuda also works fine, altyhough it is reported to be noisy (I haven't noticed it). The Seagate DB 35 is supposedly a great choice, if a bit pricey. You already have the external housing.


----------



## richsadams

*lrhorer*, your last posts (like many others) were valuable, thoughtful and communicated well. I know the folks you're helping directly on this thread appreciate what you've written, but there are many others that benefit from the assistance as well. Efforts to help others like yours and many other contributors here are too often taken for granted&#8230;generally not on purpose, but it happens.

Just thought a "thank you and well done" was in order. :up: :up:


----------



## Burt Spielman

lrhorer said:


> It's really not hat difficult, but yes, IMO, the MFSLive CD is the way to go. I think first, however, you need to put straight in your mind what you want to do and exactly what steps you will be taking to do it.
> 
> Now that in itself is not as simple as it sounds, but on the other hand if done carefully it will likely be the most difficult part of the process.
> 
> Decision 1: Backup or don't
> 
> Common sense says no matter what you should back up, and it is my recommendation to you. I have never attempted a TiVo upgrade without some level of backup, and it has saved my butt on more than one occasion. If you decide not to backup, things get much simpler, and quicker but if you wind up with a bricked TiVo, don't blame anyone but yourself.
> 
> Decision 2: Level of backup
> 
> Assuming you are going to backup, you need to decide at what level the backup will occur. At the minimum level, you will need a single drive the same size or larger than your current drive. If you are going to a larger drive, you can copy the entire original drive to the new larger drive and increase the partition to fill the new drive. In this case, the original drive is the "backup", and it will be put onto the shelf for the rest of the operations. It's a fairly secure operation and it gets you a larger internal drive as a starting point for further expansion.
> 
> Alternately you can have an extra drive the same size as your internal drive and copy everything over to it before continuing. This is the belt-and-suspenders approach, and it will take some extra time, but for the first time TiVo hacker it's not a bad idea. A compromise solution is to just copy the running partitions, rather than the data from all the partitions. This doesn't guarantee you won't wind up losing all the recorded programs, but at least you won't brick the TiVo and it takes much less time.
> 
> Decision 3: Level of expansion
> 
> Level 1: Add an external drive without changing the internal drive
> 
> If you have a stock TiVo, this can result in up to 1.25TB of storage, with a single 1TB external drive. If you bought an expanded TiVo, it can result in up to 2TB. Some users have successfully expanded their TiVos using an eSATA RAID array. The S3 is limited to 2.2TB. The HD TIvo is not, but I do not know what the largest HD TiVo in existence might be. This method is extremely fast. Excluding backups, it only takes a few moments once the drives are mounted in the PC.
> 
> Level 2: Increase the size of the internal drive.
> 
> This is much more difficult and time consuming unless you don't care about losing the current recordings. The difference between 1.25TB and 2.0TB with single drive solutions is not much, but if you ever intend to upgrade the internal drive I suggest you go ahead and do it at the outset before any other upgrade.
> 
> Level 3: Increase the size of the internal drive and add an external drive
> 
> This really is not any more of a significant upgrade than Level 2. It just requires an extra drive.
> 
> Decision 4: Hardware
> 
> If you don't intend to do a backup (remember, you were warned!!!) and only intend to do a Level 1 upgrade, then the only hardware you need is the external drive and how slow the drive subsystem might be is not an issue.
> 
> If you only intend to copy the running partitions, then even a USB to SATA adapter is probably OK, but I don't recommend it.
> 
> If you intend to copy or backup anything more than the running partitions, I definitely recommend a native PCI x4 or x16 SATA adapter. Anything else is absurd. It may avoid other issues, as well.
> 
> Decision 5: Software
> 
> To some extent, this also depends on what decisions were made above. If you have a stock drive in your TiVo and you only want to do a Level 1 upgrade, it really doesn't matter much. Otherwise, I do recommend MFSLive. There are fewer pitfalls, and it's faster. If you don't have a stock drive, then my understanding is at the moment it is the only way to go.
> 
> Oh, by the way, I would think you might be able to borrow someone else's PC for a few hours to do the upgrade, rather than trying to make the ancient PC do the job.


Thanks for spelling this out so lucidly.

Let me relate my experience with your points, one by one:

First of all, I've been in touch with Spike, the author of the MFSLive and WinMFS software. He states that the Boot CD will not work to expand an already expanded drive, leaving WinMFS as the only solution.

Decisions 1 and 2: Backup and Level of backup
I've already posted that I performed a WinMFS backup of the WeaKnees upgraded 750GB internal drive. I was able to do this successfully both on a PIII Windows PC and on an Intel iMac running Windows XP Pro SP2 under Parallels Desktop. The backup files reside on the internal hard drives of the respective computers (in the case of the Mac, on the "C" drive created by Parallels Desktop).

Decision 3: Level of Expansion
I've opted for Level 3, in your parlance. My difficulties began with having initially been misled by the expansion FAQ (since corrected), which omitted the crucial mfscopy step after the backup. Stating that the mfscopy is "much more difficult and time consuming" is only partly correct. It isn't difficult at all (albeit with some pitfalls along the way), but, thus far, it has definitely been time consuming.

I've so far attempted the mfscopy on both the PIII PC and on the Mac running Windows. In each case, I've been using the USB-to-SATA adapters specified in the FAQ. And, the transfer has been dreadfully slow, mention of which has only recently been added to the FAQ. I aborted the copies because I needed to replace the original drive in the TiVo to record upcoming programming.

WinMFS repeatedly freezes on-screen during the copy, thus providing no indication of the progress of the copy. When I asked Spike about this, he suggested a relatively easy solution: Use the Windows Task Manager to monitor the hard disk reads and writes. As a non-Windows user, I needed to do a little Internet research to figure out specifically how to do this, but it was actually very simple: Invoke Task Manager with Control-Alt-Delete, click on the Processes tab, then click on View to edit the columns displayed in Task Manager. (New to me as a Mac user, as I don't ordinarily fool around with the fuel injection system in my BMW either.)

Windows Task Manager reported that, after about 14 hours of copying using the Mac's USB 2.0 ports, only 11% of the transfer had occurred. As I mentioned, I aborted the copy and returned the 750GB drive to the TiVo while I await additional hardware.

Decision 4: Hardware
My experience jibes with your comments. Using USB-to-SATA adapters (as specified in the FAQ) provides acceptable performance for the backup, even with the old PIII PC, and somewhat better in the Mac scenario.

However, these adapters are inadequate for the mfscopy, at least on the hardware I have access to, again a fact not mentioned in the FAQ. Undoubtedly, the transfer would be faster on a PC (or a Mac) with more horsepower. I agree that, even on the latest PC (or Mac; mine is the first of the Intel iMacs, with an Intel Core Duo-not Core 2 Duo or Core 2 Extreme), they might still not provide satisfactory speed.

You recommendation of a PCI SATA controller for the PC is the method I've ultimately decided to adopt on the basis of my experiences so far, even though I already ordered a USB 2.0 controller for the PC. Fortunately, these controllers and cables are available online at very low cost, well below $20.

Decision 5: Software
As I mentioned, Spike says that, for an already expanded internal drive, only WinMFS will work.

And, finally, your comment about borrowing someone else's PC is exactly the route I'm expecting I'll have to pursue. Once it arrives, I'll give the PCI SATA controller a spin in the old PIII PC, though I don't have high hopes for a great speed improvement.

As we agree, a combination of SATA connections and more processing horsepower is the probable solution to my problems.

I do think that bkdtv would do well to spell out some of this stuff in the otherwise excellent FAQ. I'd avoid mentioning USB-to-SATA adapters altogether, for example, and I'd add the Windows Task Manager copy monitoring information.

Thanks again for your post, as it allowed me to elucidate my experiences.


----------



## stretch35

any diff laying the official dvr on it's side for better cooling..definely seems to vibrate more than the 1terabyte my book wd that costco has (it was useless for expansion)..also no light on led panel..normal..included cable has same length as siig esata. and is labeled sata II fyi


----------



## ashu

Whoa!
Am I glad I didn't give in to the UMF to grab a 1TB My Book Western Digital at Costco this evening! 

Confirmed not to work because of a Bridge SATA chipset, eh? Shame! I figured $279.99 was a nice price for a 1TB expansion solution!

Well, the Green 1TB drive is $249.99 ($20 off with an emailed code), shipped free from Newegg.com again, and I plan to order a known-working enclosure with it (excellent FAQ & follow-up discussion folks!)


----------



## jlib

Burt Spielman said:


> I do think that bkdtv would do well to spell out some of this stuff in the otherwise excellent FAQ. I'd avoid mentioning USB-to-SATA adapters altogether, for example...


Your bad experience notwithstanding, others have successfully used the adapters and it is pretty much the only way if one is limited to a laptop PC computer.


----------



## richsadams

stretch35 said:


> any diff laying the official dvr on it's side for better cooling..definely seems to vibrate more than the 1terabyte my book wd that costco has (it was useless for expansion)..also no light on led panel..normal..included cable has same length as siig esata. and is labeled sata II fyi


When you say "laying the official dvr on its side for better cooling" I'm assuming you mean the expansion drive (eSATA HDD) and not TiVo (the DVR) itself. 

There shouldn't be any performance issues based on how the enclosure is positioned. Generally speaking the more air flow around the unit, the cooler it will run. With regard to vibration/noise you might want to look into insulating it by placing it on a pad of some sort. I've found a thick mouse pad works well.

Of course you should avoid laying the unit on another component (TiVo, amp, etc.). It's best to have the drive clear of any other electronic device, on its own shelf with plenty of ventilation around it if possible.


----------



## gspoto

lrhorer said:


> I'm not sure what you are asking. If you want to copy the contents of you internal drive to another drive of the same size, the Linux dd command can do it. If you want to make a compressed backup of the data on your internal drive, or copy it to a larger internal drive, WinMFS or MFSLive can do it. If you merely want to expand your TiVo, and 1.25T is enough for you, then just add a 1TB external drive using mfsadd and be done with it.


Sorry for the delay in getting back to your reply to my post.
Summary: I want to add either 500 GB of storage (or potentially 1TB) and not have to pay a premium price or wait in order to do so.
But I am fearful of tinkering with the insides of my TiVo HD. I am comfortable doing just about anything else.
My thoughts, (perhaps outdated and DOS/Windows based not LINUX), is that hacking a drive to work with the TiVo HD shouldn't be that hard. The understanding I have (based of the generous replies to my first posts) is that for TiVo HD units there is a set group of drives that the TiVo HD will recognize as "approved" for use as an external drive. And then one a drive is determined to be approved, the TiVo will do the prep work needed to make the drive useable.
So my thought on "imaging" a drive is that if a 500GB or 1TB drive were to be already "prepped" but contain no other data(well call this drive 'A'), that it should be a simple matter to take an image of that drive onto a new clean drive(we'll call it drive "B"), and now drive B is essentially ready to go in place of Drive A. In this way no one needs to crack open a TiVo, they can just download a drive image onto a clean drive and your new external storage is ready to go.

I'm hoping I am conveying my idea properly. I suspect that this isn't possible since smarter people then me are working these things. But I am still curious as to why this wouldn't work.

Thanks for the time and I appreciate your feedback.
Spoto


----------



## Burt Spielman

jlib said:


> Your bad experience notwithstanding, others have successfully used the adapters and it is pretty much the only way if one is limited to a laptop PC computer.


OK, that makes sense. Maybe the FAQ ought to cite some data on expected copy times using different equipment, based on others' reported experiences.


----------



## PSXBatou

I just installed the My DVR on to my TivoHD, its great having more space  

I bought mine from Best Buy for $219, a bit steep but considering its the only thing that works I really didn't have a whole lot of choices.

Is the ring of light supposed to be static? On the few My Books that I have the ring spins when activity is happening.


----------



## richsadams

PSXBatou said:


> Is the ring of light supposed to be static? On the few My Books that I have the ring spins when activity is happening.


IIRC the only time the indicator light is operable on WD My Book type products like the DVR Expander is with UBS connections.

Enjoy the new space!


----------



## jlib

gspoto said:


> ...So my thought on "imaging" a drive is that if a 500GB or 1TB drive were to be already "prepped" but contain no other data(well call this drive 'A'), that it should be a simple matter to take an image of that drive onto a new clean drive(we'll call it drive "B"), and now drive B is essentially ready to go in place of Drive A. In this way no one needs to crack open a TiVo, they can just download a drive image onto a clean drive and your new external storage is ready to go.


It seems like you are thinking too hard about all this. The marrying or "prepping" of an external drive is such a simple operation (even when one needs to use an external program (WinMFS/MFSLive) in the case of unsupported drive/enclosure combinations that it is not clear what your proposed method buys you.

Anyway, each marriage is unique so you can't have a generic married drive that is then copied to other external drives for other systems as you could with a pre-configured internal upgrade drive. At least that is what it sounds like you are proposing. In your case, you have to accept the official TiVo supported external solution or be willing to open the TiVo box.


----------



## richsadams

gspoto said:


> Sorry for the delay in getting back to your reply to my post.
> Summary: I want to add either 500 GB of storage (or potentially 1TB) and not have to pay a premium price or wait in order to do so.
> But I am fearful of tinkering with the insides of my TiVo HD. I am comfortable doing just about anything else.
> My thoughts, (perhaps outdated and DOS/Windows based not LINUX), is that hacking a drive to work with the TiVo HD shouldn't be that hard. The understanding I have (based of the generous replies to my first posts) is that for TiVo HD units there is a set group of drives that the TiVo HD will recognize as "approved" for use as an external drive. And then one a drive is determined to be approved, the TiVo will do the prep work needed to make the drive useable.
> So my thought on "imaging" a drive is that if a 500GB or 1TB drive were to be already "prepped" but contain no other data(well call this drive 'A'), that it should be a simple matter to take an image of that drive onto a new clean drive(we'll call it drive "B"), and now drive B is essentially ready to go in place of Drive A. In this way no one needs to crack open a TiVo, they can just download a drive image onto a clean drive and your new external storage is ready to go.
> 
> I'm hoping I am conveying my idea properly. I suspect that this isn't possible since smarter people then me are working these things. But I am still curious as to why this wouldn't work.
> 
> Thanks for the time and I appreciate your feedback.
> Spoto


Welcome back!  In addition to what *jlib *has offered I'll throw my two cents in to address your post. If I'm reading it correctly, what you're suggesting is a nice thought, but unfortunately not something that will work.

It appears that you're confused as to how TiVo recognizes an expansion drive. The approved expansion drive is recognized by TiVo via the drive model number. Stock TiVo HD's are restricted by design to use only the approved expansion drive (sold exclusively by TiVo and Best Buy). So there is nothing to "prep" as there isn't an "image".

Every time an external drive is added to a TiVo HD or Series3 the drive is formatted by TiVo; any content is removed.

If you're comfortable "doing just about anything else" you shouldn't be fearful of tinkering with your TiVo. It's as basic a computer as there is. As *jlib *mentioned, opening it up and upgrading the hard drive is quite simple if you're comfortable connecting the OEM drive and a new drive to your P.C. and running a single program with a few steps and putting the new drive back in. That is the fastest and easiest way to upgrade to as much as 1TB of space. With a few more steps you can have 2+TB of hard drive space by upgrading the internal hard drive and adding an expansion drive.

Hope that helps.


----------



## titsataki

My "official TIVO" DVR expander came yesterday. I installed it with no issues. I now have 89 HD hrs. I will probably look for a decent price for the WD Green drive to do the internal within the next month or two.

Cheers

Nick


----------



## dirkhh

I bought a Seagate FreeAgent 750GB at Costco the other day and had a terrible time to get it to work with my TiVoHD. I used MFSlive to link the internal and external drive without a problem, but the TiVo simply wouldn't recognize it. Went through different cables, tried all the suggestions here.

At the end it turns out that the TiVo can't deal with the stupid power saving feature of the FreeAgent. I physically cracked open the case, put the drive in an el-cheapo enclosure and now it works beautifully.

More details on connecting the Free Agent to the TiVoHD.


----------



## richsadams

dirkhh said:


> I bought a Seagate FreeAgent 750GB at Costco the other day and had a terrible time to get it to work with my TiVoHD. I used MFSlive to link the internal and external drive without a problem, but the TiVo simply wouldn't recognize it. Went through different cables, tried all the suggestions here.
> 
> At the end it turns out that the TiVo can't deal with the stupid power saving feature of the FreeAgent. I physically cracked open the case, put the drive in an el-cheapo enclosure and now it works beautifully.
> 
> More details on connecting the Free Agent to the TiVoHD.


The FAP has gotten very mixed results and consequently has never been recommended for TiVo.

But glad you were able to get yours working!


----------



## lrhorer

Burt Spielman said:


> First of all, I've been in touch with Spike, the author of the MFSLive and WinMFS software. He states that the Boot CD will not work to expand an already expanded drive, leaving WinMFS as the only solution.


Don't tell that to my 1T internal drive TiVo from Weaknees which was married to a 1T Hitachi in an Antec MX-1 housing back in June using the MFSLive CD, or it may decide to quit working.

I think maybe you have it backwards. That, or esle something else is going on here which I do not understand. Below are copied the first two lines of the boot CD which I used to marry the two on my e-machines T5216 PC:

Release Note:
MFSLive Release v1.2 06-01-2007



Burt Spielman said:


> Decisions 1 and 2: Backup and Level of backup
> I've already posted that I performed a WinMFS backup of the WeaKnees upgraded 750GB internal drive.


That's fine. I just wanted to make certain you and others who may read this thread have a firm plan in mind before they start.



Burt Spielman said:


> Decision 4: Hardware
> My experience jibes with your comments. Using USB-to-SATA adapters (as specified in the FAQ) provides acceptable performance for the backup, even with the old PIII PC, and somewhat better in the Mac scenario.
> 
> However, these adapters are inadequate for the mfscopy


OK, you are differentiating between a "backup" and "mfscopy". That's fine, but in my post I was not making this distinction. If all you arre backing up is the running partitions, then as you say the USB - SATA adapter is a reasonable solution. If you are backing up the entire hard drive, wether to an alternate recovery media, a new hard drive, or both, the USB solution probably isn't going to cut it unless you only have a very small amount of video on the TiVo.



Burt Spielman said:


> I agree that, even on the latest PC (or Mac; mine is the first of the Intel iMacs, with an Intel Core Duonot Core 2 Duo or Core 2 Extreme), they might still not provide satisfactory speed.


Satisfactory or not is a highly subjective individual assessment which will vary a great deal depending on how much video is present and how soon the user wants the TiVo operational again. Two days may be both required and acceptable for some users. Two hours may be too long or more than is needed for others.



Burt Spielman said:


> Decision 5: Software
> As I mentioned, Spike says that, for an already expanded internal drive, only WinMFS will work.


I think someone needs to double-check this. I'm not because I don't have any TiVos to upgrade at the moment and probably won't in the near future - at least not prior to one or two software development cycles. I assure you I married a 1T Hitachi to a 1T Weaknees TiVo. Given the internal drive is 1T, it has to have been expanded, although I did not do it myself.


----------



## jlib

You simply added a 1TB external drive to your 1TB internal drive. He is adding an external drive _and_ at the same time upgrading his non-stock 750GB internal drive to a 1TB drive. I think the issue is the expanding not the marrying.


----------



## Burt Spielman

lrhorer said:


> Don't tell that to my 1T internal drive TiVo from Weaknees which was married to a 1T Hitachi in an Antec MX-1 housing back in June using the MFSLive CD, or it may decide to quit working.
> 
> I think maybe you have it backwards. That, or esle something else is going on here which I do not understand.





lrhorer said:


> I think someone needs to double-check this. I'm not because I don't have any TiVos to upgrade at the moment and probably won't in the near future - at least not prior to one or two software development cycles. I assure you I married a 1T Hitachi to a 1T Weaknees TiVo. Given the internal drive is 1T, it has to have been expanded, although I did not do it myself.


All I'm doing is relating what Spike related to me. Here's a link to the applicable thread on the Mfslive forum.


----------



## Burt Spielman

jlib said:


> You simply added a 1TB external drive to your 1TB internal drive. He is adding an external drive _and_ at the same time upgrading his non-stock 750GB internal drive to a 1TB drive. I think the issue is the expanding not the marrying.


I believe you're right. Except, of course, that I'm not doing anything at the moment. I'm waiting for a PCI SATA controller and SATA cables to arrive and I'm identifying a fast(er) PC I can borrow to do the deed.


----------



## lrhorer

jlib said:


> You simply added a 1TB external drive to your 1TB internal drive. He is adding an external drive _and_ at the same time upgrading his non-stock 750GB internal drive to a 1TB drive. I think the issue is the expanding not the marrying.


Yeah, you may be right.


----------



## Aiken

Much to my dismay, my "My DVR Expander" seems to have unmarried itself from my S3 without any prompting.

If anyone has any ideas, I'd appreciate input. I started a new thread here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=378076


----------



## richsadams

Aiken said:


> Much to my dismay, my "My DVR Expander" seems to have unmarried itself from my S3 without any prompting.
> 
> If anyone has any ideas, I'd appreciate input. I started a new thread here:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=378076


Welcome to the Pioneer's Club because AFAIK that's a first. Sorry you had to be the one to experience it. 

Your other error, "_this program could not record because there was no signal_" indicates that there may be a software/data corruption issue. Unfortunately based on your other post I think you've done everything possible to correct the problem.

Keeping the drive attached you could try TiVo's diagnostic's called "Kickstarts" (try KS57 and KS58) to remedy the situation, however I don't hold out much hope for that, but it can't hurt.

You may end up having to divorce the drive and remarry it. Unfortunately like the warning says, you'll likely lose all of the recordings made since the drive was connected.

If you do that, the best bet would be to disconnect the eSATA drive completely, divorce it (following the screen directions) and boot up TiVo without it to ensure it is running properly (the "no signal" error is a red flag). If everything is okay, re-marry the eSATA drive to see if there are any more problems.


----------



## Aiken

richsadams said:


> Keeping the drive attached you could try TiVo's diagnostic's called "Kickstarts" (try KS57 and KS58) to remedy the situation, however I don't hold out much hope for that, but it can't hurt.


Well, since KS codes were pre-eSATA, I actually figured they _could_ hurt, perhaps by permanently returning the drive to a totally-unmarried state, so I've been waiting until I couldn't see any other option and then I tried KS 57.

What do you know... it worked!

Could have knocked me over with a feather when the darn thing booted up correctly.

I wish I knew what it fixed. I'm sort of wondering if the OS marking the filesystem bad fails to start up a GSOD automatically when you have external storage attached, and instead pops up the wrong-storage error screen. That could happen if they're checking for filesystem issues in the wrong order, e.g. "Is it married right? If not, then pop up an error. Otherwise, is the filesystem clean? If not, pop up a GSOD and check it." Since it probably can't marry a dirty fs, it would bail at the first question.


----------



## richsadams

Aiken said:


> Well, since KS codes were pre-eSATA, I actually figured they _could_ hurt, perhaps by permanently returning the drive to a totally-unmarried state, so I've been waiting until I couldn't see any other option and then I tried KS 57.
> 
> What do you know... it worked!
> 
> Could have knocked me over with a feather when the darn thing booted up correctly.
> 
> I wish I knew what it fixed. I'm sort of wondering if the OS marking the filesystem bad fails to start up a GSOD automatically when you have external storage attached, and instead pops up the wrong-storage error screen. That could happen if they're checking for filesystem issues in the wrong order, e.g. "Is it married right? If not, then pop up an error. Otherwise, is the filesystem clean? If not, pop up a GSOD and check it." Since it probably can't marry a dirty fs, it would bail at the first question.


Ha, that _is _interesting.

I am also surprised that KS57 cured the ill based on the problems that you described. That tells me that it was almost certainly some sort of data corruption that TiVo was able to resolve (might have been on either drive). Your theory as to why it happened in the first place is as good as any I can think of. 

So you really _are _a pioneer on two counts...the first to have the problem, _and _the first to get if fixed! Congrats! :up:


----------



## MikeMacMan

My Tivo 3 still restarts and I think it's from EMI issues. About once a week (guesstimate) it will restart when I turn on my TV + Receiver. I have a receiver, center channel speaker, sub and right channel speaker all ~1-2 feet from my Tivo 3. Due to room and cabinet size I'm not sure how I can move the S3 away from them. Is there such a thing as a "shieled" eSata cable or a way to shield the eSata cable from EMI? (I was thinking maybe wrap it in tin foil?) I am using the suggested .5m Tripp-Lite P950 eSata cable to hook up my MX-1 with 1TB Hitachi drive. I did some googling and all "shielded" cables look like normal eSata cables. This has been an issue since the end of July when I added the external drive.

Originally I thought this might have to do with HDMI issues with my TV (60" Sony KDS-60A2000). I have switched to Component cables and this has not helped.

Thanks for all the great information on this forum!


----------



## Clentz

MikeMacMan said:


> My Tivo 3 still restarts and I think it's from EMI issues. About once a week (guesstimate) it will restart when I turn on my TV + Receiver. I have a receiver, center channel speaker, sub and right channel speaker all ~1-2 feet from my Tivo 3. Due to room and cabinet size I'm not sure how I can move the S3 away from them. Is there such a thing as a "shieled" eSata cable or a way to shield the eSata cable from EMI? (I was thinking maybe wrap it in tin foil?) I am using the suggested .5m Tripp-Lite P950 eSata cable to hook up my MX-1 with 1TB Hitachi drive. I did some googling and all "shielded" cables look like normal eSata cables. This has been an issue since the end of July when I added the external drive.
> 
> Originally I thought this might have to do with HDMI issues with my TV (60" Sony KDS-60A2000). I have switched to Component cables and this has not helped.
> 
> Thanks for all the great information on this forum!


My guess is that it is more likely a power bump caused my turning everything on at the same time. Try using diferent power connections (To the wall) My room had two duplex outlets and I ran two additional twenty amp circuits all the way to the load center.

Carl


----------



## donaudio

Antec MX-1 on sale now from CC. $40


----------



## keenanSR

donaudio said:


> Antec MX-1 on sale now from CC. $40


Thanks, that's where I got my last 2 and I needed 1 more, probably get 2.


----------



## leeherman

I've documented elsewhere in this thread my problems with an unsupported eSATA drive for my S3. 

I called Tivo today about other problems and mentioned the eSATA problem. The tech seemed pretty confident the WD DVR expander would work, so I took the plunge and ordered it from Best Buy for in store pick up.

I figure I'll try it. Worst case scenario is I return it if it behaves the same way as my Antec box/SIIG cable/WD drive solution did. Best case is that it works and I don't have to off-load programs to my Tivo server, which is one of the reasons I called Tivo...incomplete transfers back to my S3 and "jumping and skipping" when they do make it back OK.

I also called regarding my S3's CC2 constantly dropping out.

Wish me luck! I hope the DVR Expander works!

LH


----------



## naclone

okay, so i am moving at the end of the month. anything i should keep in mind when moving my TiVo and eSATA drive? So long as I unplug the TiVo first, I can disconnect the two for the move, reconnect them and then plug in the TiVo again, and everything should be fine, right?


----------



## richsadams

naclone said:


> okay, so i am moving at the end of the month. anything i should keep in mind when moving my TiVo and eSATA drive? So long as I unplug the TiVo first, I can disconnect the two for the move, reconnect them and then plug in the TiVo again, and everything should be fine, right?


Yep, just unplug TiVo first, disconnect everything and box it all up nice and safe. Then when you're back on solid ground connect the eSATA back up to TiVo, plug it in, turn it on and then plug TiVo in and Bob's your uncle. (No, I have no idea what that means other than everything is good .)


----------



## 1283

donaudio said:


> Antec MX-1 on sale now from CC. $40


Earlier today buy.com had it for $46.26 - $20 rebate. It's now $49.99 - $20 rebate but out of stock, but you can still order it. The rebate expires on 12/30.


----------



## gspoto

All,
I saw on Buy.com that there is a Cavalry 1TB eSATA HD (complete with bridge and cable) for $230.

Does anybody have any info on this drive? Woudl this be a good candidate for to marry to my TiVoHD?

Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.
Greg


----------



## BigHat

Just got the WD Tivo Extender (500 GB). Well it couldn't be easier to install...except it doesn't work. I have a new S3 with the latest software. Got it with a Weaknees drive of 500GB so showing 70 hours HD initially.

Hooked it up properly, with things powered down that needed to be etc. On restart I got the message about the external storage device. Followed all the steps, the external device appears on the Systems Info page, but no added capacity shown. Still 70HD and 663 SD.

When I check Remote and Device settings under external storage I get the "not setup message." I go through the "Yes, set up this device", it reboots but doesn't appear.

Any suggestions?

Edit: Sorry just read this doesn't work with an upgraded drive. Dummy !!! Well, I'll try to use with my std S3 in the bedroom.

AND it works just fine in there. Oh well.


----------



## leeherman

As I posted yesterday, I bought the WD "Tivo supported" eSATA drive after having problems with a WD drive in two cases including the Antec MX-1 and two cables including the SIIG.

I'm happy to report that the drive seems to be working fine. I really had my doubts after failing twice with unsupported solutions, but so far so good.

I guess I'll be keeping two eSATA/USB cases as spares and the 500 gbyte WD drive originally purchased for my S3 will go into my primary desktop PC.

Thanks to all for your knowledge about all things Tivo!

Happy holidays!

LH


----------



## richsadams

gspoto said:


> All,
> I saw on Buy.com that there is a Cavalry 1TB eSATA HD (complete with bridge and cable) for $230.
> 
> Does anybody have any info on this drive? Woudl this be a good candidate for to marry to my TiVoHD?
> 
> Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.
> Greg


Cavalry's 750GB drives had many problems early on and were never a recommended expansion drive. (More here - see #36).

AFAIK no one's tried this latest drive, but I'd be wary based on their history, plus if their new drive doesn't have a fan-cooled enclosure that might be a problem too.


----------



## sheriffA

will this work?

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Produc...=0&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1

in my S3


----------



## richsadams

sheriffA said:


> will this work?
> 
> http://www.costco.com/Browse/Produc...=0&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1
> 
> in my S3


Unfortunately not as a plug and play expansion device for TiVo Series3's or TiVo HD's. (Discussed at length earlier.) It's been tried several times and apparently due to an issue with the three-way bridge (USB/Firewire/eSATA) TiVo will not recognize it.

If you're talking about removing the drive from the enclosure and installing it as an internal drive in your TiVo Series3 it would be dicey at best. There are a number of reports of the OEM drive (the version inside the WD My Book enclosure) not working as an internal drive on the S3 but IIRC there was one person that said it was successful. You're certainly welcome to give it a try and report back.

If youre looking for an easy P&P expansion drive your best bet is to read through the very first post on this thread if you want to add anything besides the TiVo "approved device". There are recommendations as well as cautions and warnings (including about that drive as well).


----------



## gspoto

Good info. I'll avoid.
Thanks Rich!


----------



## 1283

gspoto said:


> All,
> I saw on Buy.com that there is a Cavalry 1TB eSATA HD (complete with bridge and cable) for $230.


That drive has the WD OEM 1TB drive (3-year warranty) inside. Very good price at $230, but it has gone back up to $318.


----------



## Aiken

Aiken said:


> ... I tried KS 57.
> 
> What do you know... it worked!


And now it's hosed again and KS 57 is refusing to do anything. No GSOD, just straight to the wrong external storage screen. KS 58 says it's installing a service update (!) and then, after about ten seconds, also goes to the wrong external storage screen. KS 52 goes straight to the wrong external storage screen as well, which is not surprising since it probably needs a valid filesystem.

I wonder if I have a service update waiting to install, and that's pre-empting the GSOD.

It's definitely the "My DVR Expander" drive that's hosed, by the way. With it attached, it takes from three to seven minutes to boot to the point of even entering KS 57. With it detached, it consistently takes about a minute to get there. (Even when detached, KS 57 still doesnt work, by the way.)

Alas, I didn't yet have a replacement drive, which is where I was going to move everything before trashing the "My DVR Expander" for good, and so now I think I get to lose the last six weeks' worth of recordings, plus some older ones I had moved over from other units. Rrr. Sigh.

I don't suppose I could boot these in a PC linux environment and run a mfs check/cleanup there, could I? I don't know what's involved in a TiVo eSATA marriage and whether it can be duplicated outside of the TiVo OS.

Heck, if I could just boot into linux and just copy the combined filesystem to another drive entirely, that's basically what I want to do at this point. I'm done with eSATA.


----------



## simontiki

I just dropped a Hitachi 1TB drive into an Antec MX-1. I plugged it into the eSATA port of my HD TiVo. When I go to "Remote & Device Settings -> External Storage, I get a message saying..."This device may not be set up. For more information on external storage solutions, visit www.tivo.com/expand." I guess my question is...do I need to format this drive or do something else before attaching it to tivo? 

Thanks.


----------



## richsadams

simontiki said:


> I just dropped a Hitachi 1TB drive into an Antec MX-1. I plugged it into the eSATA port of my HD TiVo. When I go to "Remote & Device Settings -> External Storage, I get a message saying..."This device may not be set up. For more information on external storage solutions, visit www.tivo.com/expand." I guess my question is...do I need to format this drive or do something else before attaching it to tivo?
> 
> Thanks.


Frist of all, welcome to the fourm. :up:

That's a fine drive and the best enclosure solution. However I hate to be the Grinch, but if you'd read the very first post on this thread (see #4), you'd find that the only drive that will work via P&P with the TiVo HD is the TiVo "approved device"; the WD My DVR Expander.

If you want to use anything other than that as an expansion device you'll need to remove and format the internal HDD. Information on how to do that is also in the first post. It's fairly simple if you're comfortable with connecting both drives to your P.C. and doing a little work.

IMHO if you're going to remove the internal drive, you might as well upgrade/replace it with your 1TB drive and save the existing drive as a backup (unless you really need the additional bit of space).

Once it's done it'll be a nice Christmas present.


----------



## simontiki

richsadams said:


> Frist of all, welcome to the fourm. :up:
> 
> That's a fine drive and the best enclosure solution. However I hate to be the Grinch, but if you'd read the very first post on this thread (see #4), you'd find that the only drive that will work via P&P with the TiVo HD is the TiVo "approved device"; the WD My DVR Expander.
> 
> If you want to use anything other than that as an expansion device you'll need to remove and format the internal HDD. Information on how to do that is also in the first post. It's fairly simple if you're comfortable with connecting both drives to your P.C. and doing a little work.
> 
> IMHO if you're going to remove the internal drive, you might as well upgrade/replace it with your 1TB drive and save the existing drive as a backup (unless you really need the additional bit of space).
> 
> Once it's done it'll be a nice Christmas present.


Thanks Rich, and thanks for welcoming me to the forum. You've quickly narrowed down my options, and that's a good thing! Regarding these options...

1 - Replace existing drive : I only lose 20 HD hours from the original. I understand I'll get about 165 HD with the 1TB drive. In the event I wanted to increase to 2 TB, I still have the enclosure, neatly packed in original box. Get another 1TB that is "approved", drop it in the enclosure, then just plug it in!

2 - Extend - More work and more "stuff" (enclosure, power cord, etc.).

Since I have a laptop, I imagine I would have to procure some sort of 2nd enclosure or a SATA->USB cable w/power so I can connect both drives to my laptop via USB to run WinMFS.

Thanks again!


----------



## bkdtv

simontiki said:


> 1 - Replace existing drive : I only lose 20 HD hours from the original. I understand I'll get about 165 HD with the 1TB drive.


There's a little more to it than that.

You need to connect the original drive to your PC, run the free WinMFS program and select 'Backup' from the menu. Then you disconnect the original drive, connect the new drive, and select 'Restore' from the menu. That will copy the Tivo software and all of your settings (season passes, etc) to the new hard drive.

If you want to copy all of your recordings too, then you need to have both drives connected to your computer at once and use the 'Mfscopy' option in WinMFS instead of Backup/Restore. This method is described in steps 1-7 under Section III, #11 of the FAQ.


----------



## simontiki

bkdtv said:


> There's a little more to it than that.
> 
> You need to connect the original drive to your PC, run the free WinMFS program and select 'Backup' from the menu. Then you disconnect the original drive, connect the new drive, and select 'Restore' from the menu. That will copy the Tivo software and all of your settings (season passes, etc) to the new hard drive.
> 
> If you want to copy all of your recordings too, then you need to have both drives connected to your computer at once and use the 'Mfscopy' option in WinMFS instead of Backup/Restore. This method is described in steps 1-7 under Section III, #11 of the FAQ.


Ah, this is promising. So, if I don't need / want my recordings, I could use my enclosure to work with each drive individually? I wouldn't need to connect them at the same time, and wouldn't need to procure a sata->usb adapter w/power.


----------



## richsadams

simontiki said:


> Thanks Rich, and thanks for welcoming me to the forum. You've quickly narrowed down my options, and that's a good thing! Regarding these options...
> 
> 1 - Replace existing drive : I only lose 20 HD hours from the original. I understand I'll get about 165 HD with the 1TB drive. In the event I wanted to increase to 2 TB, I still have the enclosure, neatly packed in original box. Get another 1TB that is "approved", drop it in the enclosure, then just plug it in!
> 
> 2 - Extend - More work and more "stuff" (enclosure, power cord, etc.).
> 
> Since I have a laptop, I imagine I would have to procure some sort of 2nd enclosure or a SATA->USB cable w/power so I can connect both drives to my laptop via USB to run WinMFS.
> 
> Thanks again!


Like bkdtv (one of two resident experts - the other being Spike who wrote the WinMFS program) said, there's a bit more to it, but you're on the right road. The process sounds complicated but once you get into it, it's really pretty easy. Removing the HDD and copying it over is the only time consuming part of the process.

Others here have successfully used a USB/SATA adapter to do what you need to do.

If you upgrade the internal drive you can still add an eSATA drive in the future but it will require removing the drive and doing a couple of more programming bits to marry the new expansion drive. All of the info is on the MFSLive.org website and there's even more specific info on the MFSLive Forum.

Best of luck and keep us posted.


----------



## simontiki

richsadams said:


> Like bkdtv (one of two resident experts - the other being Spike who wrote the WinMFS program) said, there's a bit more to it, but you're on the right road. The process sounds complicated but once you get into it, it's really pretty easy. Removing the HDD and copying it over is the only time consuming part of the process.
> 
> Others here have successfully used a USB/SATA adapter to do what you need to do.
> 
> If you upgrade the internal drive you can still add an eSATA drive in the future but it will require removing the drive and doing a couple of more programming bits to marry the new expansion drive. All of the info is on the MFSLive.org website and there's even more specific info on the MFSLive Forum.
> 
> Best of luck and keep us posted.


bkdtv / rich - thanks so much for your help.

Since my HD TiVo is pretty new, and there isn't much of interest on tv right now, I wouldn't be too upset to lose what I have. That way, I wouldn't have to wait to receive the SATA adapter. So I could just use the enclosure to backup the old drive, then restore to the new drive, as bkdtv outlines above. I still might order the stuff from Amazon. (I see me moving to 2tb in the not too distant future, but I'll cross that bridge...)


----------



## bkdtv

simontiki,

Since you got the 1Tb Hitachi, you'll probably also want to set its automatic acoustic management (AAM) setting to 128 to minimize seek noise. You can do that using the Hitachi Feature Tool boot CD.

You can download the free WinMFS utility (mentioned in previous post) here.


----------



## keenanSR

bkdtv said:


> simontiki,
> 
> Since you got the 1Tb Hitachi, you'll probably also want to set its automatic acoustic management (AAM) setting to 254 to minimize seek noise. You can do that using the Hitachi Feature Tool boot CD.
> 
> You can download the free WinMFS utility (mentioned in previous post) here.


254 is the "normal" setting, to run quieter you'd want a lower number, unless I'm reading it wrong. The pdf was too large to upload.

http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/downloads/FTool_User_Guide_208.pdf
FTool_User_Guide_208.pdf (application/pdf Object)


----------



## bkdtv

keenan,

Thanks, my memory failed me. I edited the previous post to 128 instead of 254.


----------



## keenanSR

Cool, I'll remove my post, unless you think I should just leave it? Do you have a link to the PDF in the top post?


----------



## Aiken

Aiken said:


> And now it's hosed again and KS 57 is refusing to do anything. No GSOD, just straight to the wrong external storage screen.


Well, I think I know why KS 57 wouldn't do anything. The partition table on the eSATA drive is scrambled, probably along with other parts of the drive. It's hard to do a filesystem check/cleanup if you don't know where it is. The internal drive appears to be completely devoid of errors.

For now, I'm just doing a dd_rescue of the internal drive to a 1TB hitachi, which I'll also expand to use the entire space. (Looks like I didn't actually need to rescue, but whatever.) When I reboot with it, I'll let _that_ drive divorce itself from the mising eSATA drive, and I'll just have a 1TB internal drive with my pre-eSATA shows on it. I can probably get the season of Journeyman, Weeds, Doctor Who, and BSG again at some point. Not sure what else I lost, but hey, it's TV and I can probably get the rest again some time, too.

Some day I'll see if I can get a binary dump of a good partition table for a My DVR Expander so I can fix mine and see if I can get the two original drives remarried. Then I can get whatever I'm losing back, but for now this will do.

Still no idea what was at fault... bad cable, bad cooling, bad drive, bad eSATA adapter in the enclosure, bad power, software glitch or memory corruption in their linux (e)SATA driver, I dunno. All I know is that it was the eSATA drive that died and I ain't going eSATA again, just in case. Oh well.

(Edit: seems to have worked, the rescue+divorce+expand, but I'm not sure if my swap space will be big enough. Hm. Lost every recording since the marriage--no surprise there, alas.)


----------



## bkdtv

keenanSR said:


> Do you have a link to the PDF in the top post?


Thanks.

I added the information on AAM to Section III, FAQ #29 (the last question).


----------



## Aiken

Handy tip for anyone else who ends up having to divorce a dead eSATA drive:

Any recordings *created* in the last two weeks will be listed in the recording history as being lost when the external drive was removed. Helps one figure out what's gone and what to try to get back, at least in a limited fashion. Alas, anything lost that was more than 14 days old is not noted.


----------



## 1283

2TB eSATA RAID for $490: Cavalry CADA002SA2 at buy.com. Two 1TB drives, probably WD10EACS. No personal experience with it. Price seems too good to be true.


----------



## jlib

c3 said:


> 2TB eSATA RAID for $490...


But wait! It gets even better: $479.99


----------



## syd81

Hi -- I'm new here. Just got a S3...

I have a simple question (I think). Does any esata drive work? Does it have to be a DVR extender?


----------



## richsadams

syd81 said:


> Hi -- I'm new here. Just got a S3...
> 
> I have a simple question (I think). Does any esata drive work? Does it have to be a DVR extender?


Welcome to the forum. :up:

The short answer to your first question is no, not all eSATA drives will work with TiVo Series3's and no you do not have to use the TiVo approved WD My DVR Expander. That said, it's not simple, but not too comlicated either as there are a number of options you can use.

To fully understand what expansion drives will and won't work with your new Series3 it is strongly suggested that you read the first post on this thread. It should answer all of the questions you'll have. If you don't understand the information, don't be afraid to ask however.


----------



## craigo

Aiken said:


> I just came here because my *official* dvr expander causing this problem on my original S3. If I leave it running for 5-7 days, it starts hitching more and more. After a reboot, no new hitches occur in new recordings, but existing hitches in existing recordings persist. A week later, the process repeats.
> 
> None of this ever happened before I connected the drive last month, and now it's happened three times, which coincidentally is roughly how many week-long cycles have gone past since.
> 
> I'd have to guess that something is happening after significant uptime that is causing bad sectors to be written during recording, and this drive is possibly not set to fail quickly the way a media drive should be. That seems to cause the TiVo to have to sit there and wait for the drive to give up on the bad sector. Input seems dead but is actually getting queued up for when things unlock.
> 
> If I'm anywhere near accurate, this is worrisome. Writing bad data or creating bad sectors is not a good situation for a DVR to get into. TiVo needs to figure this one out.
> 
> Meanwhile, I'm going to start rebooting my S3 every few days.


I'm getting the same problem. I just installed the DVR Expander and now all the audio/video of the recorded shows skip about 3-5 seconds every minute or so.


----------



## richsadams

Best Buy has the Antec MX-1 enclosure on sale for $47.99. Not a great price, but better than their normally outrageous price of $75!  and you might find it in your local store rather than having to pay shipping from someone or somewhere else.


----------



## garberfc

richsadams said:


> Best Buy has the Antec MX-1 enclosure on sale for $47.99. Not a great price, but better than their normally outrageous price of $75!  and you might find it in your local store rather than having to pay shipping from someone or somewhere else.


Here it is for $27.49


----------



## richsadams

garberfc said:


> Here it is for $27.49


Ah...even better...but better hurry, expires 12/30. :up:


----------



## lokisince89

I found a 750 GB Samsung Spinpoint F1 drive- $169.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152100

Any thoughts on how this would work as a replacement to the original drive in my Tivo HD?

Thanks in advance.

Al


----------



## MarkHolbrook

Ok I went out and got a DVR expander (the Western Digital one) from BestBuy and followed the instructions to get it working with my TiVo HD.

Nothing seems to work. The SATA cable seems really flakey. But no matter what I do, how careful I am it seems to never be recognized. My steps are:

1) Power down TiVo
2) Connect SATA cable
3) Power up DVR expander
4) Power up TiVo

After long wait, go to expansion devices: None found.

Re-seat all cables, retry... No luck.

Are the external SATA cables supposed to click and lock in place? Mine don't

M


----------



## jlib

lokisince89 said:


> I found a 750 GB Samsung Spinpoint F1 drive- $169.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152100
> 
> Any thoughts on how this would work as a replacement to the original drive in my Tivo HD?


There is no particular reason why it wouldn't work. However, it is brand new on the market so you will be the guinea pig.


----------



## richsadams

MarkHolbrook said:


> Ok I went out and got a DVR expander (the Western Digital one) from BestBuy and followed the instructions to get it working with my TiVo HD.
> 
> Nothing seems to work. The SATA cable seems really flakey. But no matter what I do, how careful I am it seems to never be recognized. My steps are:
> 
> 1) Power down TiVo
> 2) Connect SATA cable
> 3) Power up DVR expander
> 4) Power up TiVo
> 
> After long wait, go to expansion devices: None found.
> 
> Re-seat all cables, retry... No luck.
> 
> Are the external SATA cables supposed to click and lock in place? Mine don't
> 
> M


You're doing everything right. It sounds like another bad eSATA cable...yours is not the first report of this issue with the WD My DVR expander.

There's more talk about it on this thread (pictures, etc). Once the OP replaced it everything was fine.

If it were me I'd take it back and exchange it for another one. You may or may get a better result if they came from separate shipments...or it might be the same in which case I'd order one from TiVo instead.

Good luck and keep us posted. :up:


----------



## richsadams

jlib said:


> There is no particular reason why it wouldn't work. However, it is brand new on the market so you will be the guinea pig.


+1 :up:


----------



## mcmoore

MarkHolbrook said:


> Ok I went out and got a DVR expander (the Western Digital one) from BestBuy and followed the instructions to get it working with my TiVo HD.
> 
> Nothing seems to work. The SATA cable seems really flakey. But no matter what I do, how careful I am it seems to never be recognized. My steps are:
> 
> 1) Power down TiVo
> 2) Connect SATA cable
> 3) Power up DVR expander
> 4) Power up TiVo
> 
> After long wait, go to expansion devices: None found.
> 
> Re-seat all cables, retry... No luck.
> 
> Are the external SATA cables supposed to click and lock in place? Mine don't
> 
> M


I have exactly the same problem. It does not recognize the drive at all. I bought the "Expander" from Tivo.


----------



## richsadams

mcmoore said:


> I have exactly the same problem. It does not recognize the drive at all. I bought the "Expander" from Tivo.


 You could try another eSATA cable (or it actually may be a bad drive), but IMO you shouldn't have to buy another cable to get things to work.

Bottom line, if you have a supported drive a call to TiVo is in order.


----------



## fergie8

richsadams said:


> There's more talk about it on this thread (pictures, etc). Once the OP replaced it everything was fine.


Well, *almost* everything was fine. Since others seem to be experiencing similar problems, maybe it would be appropriate for me to finish my story although the final bit is non-technical.

When I talked to the TiVo CS supervisor about the problems I had with my MyDvrExpander and how I suspected it was the cable, he told me that I could buy a replacement eSATA cable locally and if that fixed the problem, TiVo would fully reimburse me for the cost of the new cable as long as I had the sales receipt. So I bought the cable and that fixed the problem. But when I called back with my case number and asked what I needed to do to get the reimbursement, they didn't want to live up to their promise.

I was told that they could only charge back to my credit card for one month's service ($6.95) since my TiVo HD was new and I'd only gone through one billing cycle. The fact that I had two other active tivos in service and had been paying monthly for those for several years didn't matter, nor did the fact that they had promised otherwise. So they were offering me a $6.95 reimbursement for a $27.00+ cable. 

I had to negotiate with the CSR to avoid getting ripped off for $20.00+. I told him the least he could do was send me a couple of TiVo coffee mugs, for cripes sake. Nope, he couldn't do that, he said. How about some hats or t-shirts or something? Nope, couldn't do that either. But he said he'd see what he could do and put me on hold for a few minutes. Then he came back and said he could send me a TiVo Glo-Remote to make up the difference. Okay, thank you, that costs more than $20, I'll take it, figuring that something was better than nothing. (I like it too, btw.) But ... well ... am I supposed to be happy that I had to haggle with them about this? Sheesh, just live up to your promises, TiVo!

Besides, they could have just given me 4 months free credit on my TiVo HD account and that would have made it about equal to my out of pocket expense and I'd have been happy with that. But, nope, he said they couldn't do that either. Weak.

Just thought that might be useful information for others who are unfortunate enough to have to play the cable replacement game with TiVo. Good luck.

Cheers,

-- 
Michael


----------



## richsadams

That is good info. The fact that it's working is also good...but I still say you should never have had to go through all of that for a lousy cable. 

I've seen other posts where TiVo doesn't seem to have the ability to do anything more than refund a month's service. Anything beyond that seems to make their eyes cross and smoke to begin leaking out of their building.

But at least you have a working drive. I know a year or two from now (when they start offering a 750GB "approved device"  ) these kinds of stories will be long forgotten. Yeah, right.


----------



## Ben_Jamin75

can anyone recommend a usb -> sata adapter that supports 1TB drives?

I bought two adapters from zipzoomfly but they only support up to 500 GB.

At first winmfs saw the drive with this adapter, now it won't see it at all.


----------



## Jmichigan

richsadams said:


> You're doing everything right. It sounds like another bad eSATA cable...yours is not the first report of this issue with the WD My DVR expander.
> 
> There's more talk about it on this thread (pictures, etc). Once the OP replaced it everything was fine.
> 
> If it were me I'd take it back and exchange it for another one. You may or may get a better result if they came from separate shipments...or it might be the same in which case I'd order one from TiVo instead.
> 
> Good luck and keep us posted. :up:


First time post here ~ Possible bad connection w/ dust!
I have had similar issues with my new WD DVR Expander not being recognized. After 3 reboots the drive was recognized and I got to the screen that asked if I would like to set up the Expander and one final reboot of the Series 3 was needed - I was very excited to gain more space BUT when TiVo was starting up it said that the external storage could not be found. It was asking if I wanted to disable external storage and continue without it. Now I was really puzzled?????? My next step was research and I found tivocommunity.com. 
I ended up swapping ends of the cable and reseating them firmly into the TiVo and drive. I tried another restart of TiVo and it seems to have worked. PERHAPS it was the bit of caked dust in the SATA connection of TiVo and the loose connection (it still doesn't click in?)
I see the drive on the setup screen and things seem to be ok for now.. I'll keep you posted! Thanks for the knowledgeable posts!! :up:


----------



## richsadams

Jmichigan said:


> First time post here ~ Possible bad connection w/ dust!
> I have had similar issues with my new WD DVR Expander not being recognized. After 3 reboots the drive was recognized and I got to the screen that asked if I would like to set up the Expander and one final reboot of the Series 3 was needed - I was very excited to gain more space BUT when TiVo was starting up it said that the external storage could not be found. It was asking if I wanted to disable external storage and continue without it. Now I was really puzzled?????? My next step was research and I found tivocommunity.com.
> I ended up swapping ends of the cable and reseating them firmly into the TiVo and drive. I tried another restart of TiVo and it seems to have worked. PERHAPS it was the bit of caked dust in the SATA connection of TiVo and the loose connection (it still doesn't click in?)
> I see the drive on the setup screen and things seem to be ok for now.. I'll keep you posted! Thanks for the knowledgeable posts!! :up:


Hi Jeff and welcome to the forum.

That's very valuable info and may well help someone else with the same issues. The S3's have been out over a year now and it's quite possible someone with, um, less than satisfactory house cleaning skills might have some nasty build-up in their eSATA port. It's become very apparent that TiVo is hyper-sensitive to even the slightest connection problem. (BTW, I do NOT recommend that anyone look behind _my _component cabinet )

Good stuff...thanks very much! :up:


----------



## mcmoore

I talked to TIVO today. After several tests, they said I would have to return the drive to Western Digital for replacement. Even though I had bought the drive from them, they could not replace it for me. This is my third Tivo. I think my first is over seven years old. This is the first time they have disappointed me with their customer service.

When I called WD, they said it was an OEM drive and they could not support it. I convinced them otherwise and they are swapping it out. 
Total time on phone to customer support so far today - 2hours 15 minutes!!!


----------



## richsadams

mcmoore said:


> I talked to TIVO today. After several tests, they said I would have to return the drive to Western Digital for replacement. Even though I had bought the drive from them, they could not replace it for me. This is my third Tivo. I think my first is over seven years old. This is the first time they have disappointed me with their customer service.
> 
> When I called WD, they said it was an OEM drive and they could not support it. I convinced them otherwise and they are swapping it out.
> Total time on phone to customer support so far today - 2hours 15 minutes!!!


Over two hours on the phone to get a replacement drive?!  Very sad.

IIRC there have been a couple of other reports of failed WD My DVR Expander drives/cables that had to be returned. I think they were eventually taken care of but it was the same story...TiVo saying that WD had to replace it and WD saying it was TiVo's responsibility. You'd think the two would communicate beyond the original agreement to supply the product...again sad.

Hopefully you'll be back on track soon. In the meantime you could send TiVo an invoice for your time...an attorney's hourly fees should do it.


----------



## MarkHolbrook

richsadams said:


> You're doing everything right. It sounds like another bad eSATA cable...yours is not the first report of this issue with the WD My DVR expander.
> 
> There's more talk about it on this thread (pictures, etc). Once the OP replaced it everything was fine.
> 
> If it were me I'd take it back and exchange it for another one. You may or may get a better result if they came from separate shipments...or it might be the same in which case I'd order one from TiVo instead.
> 
> Good luck and keep us posted. :up:


Hi all,

I first tried to find a eSATA cable around town... Nothing... even at a CompUSA none in stock. So I took the entire thing back to BestBuy and brought home a new one. This one works fine.

eSATA cables (first time I've used them... I've used the SATA cables in computers many times before) seem really flimsy for connection. IE I'm afraid to move anything for fear of the cables coming out.

But anyway it's alive. My unit is showing 810 hours of SD record ability.

Thanks


----------



## garberfc

MarkHolbrook said:


> eSATA cables (first time I've used them... I've used the SATA cables in computers many times before) seem really flimsy for connection. IE I'm afraid to move anything for fear of the cables coming out.


It's sad to hear all the heartache over using the eSATA cables. They're supposed to be more robust as they're _external_ cables. Maybe Western Digital is using some cheap, low bid, Chinese version


----------



## thilt

I went a different "unsupported route" than leeherman did but have similar problems. I got the Apricorn 1TB DVR Xpander for Christmas. Installation on my unmodified Series 3 went flawlessly. However, late last week I started noticing stuttering, pixelization and audio drops on certain (not all) recorded material. ( I initially thought it was broadcast quality) Today, it was particularly bad on instant replay of football action in the live buffer after I had just seen the pristine live action. I tested several channels and the problems were consistent across the board. I did not have a lot of recorded material so I went ahead and uninstalled the drive. Everything works fine again.
I will be calling Apricorn technical support in the morning but wanted to check if anyone else had faced and solved this problem. Thanks.


----------



## richsadams

MarkHolbrook said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I first tried to find a eSATA cable around town... Nothing... even at a CompUSA none in stock. So I took the entire thing back to BestBuy and brought home a new one. This one works fine.
> 
> eSATA cables (first time I've used them... I've used the SATA cables in computers many times before) seem really flimsy for connection. IE I'm afraid to move anything for fear of the cables coming out.
> 
> But anyway it's alive. My unit is showing 810 hours of SD record ability.
> 
> Thanks


Glad to hear that things are working well now. Are the connections to the eSATA drive and/or TiVo still loose? They s/b snug and you shouldn't have to tip toe around them.

I agree with garberfc, a good eSATA cable is a no-brainer and WD should be ashamed if they're using sub-par cables to save a few cents.  TiVo should lean on them to get their act together.

In any case...enjoy the new real estate! :up:


----------



## richsadams

thilt said:


> I went a different "unsupported route" than leeherman did but have similar problems. I got the Apricorn 1TB DVR Xpander for Christmas. Installation on my unmodified Series 3 went flawlessly. However, late last week I started noticing stuttering, pixelization and audio drops on certain (not all) recorded material. ( I initially thought it was broadcast quality) Today, it was particularly bad on instant replay of football action in the live buffer after I had just seen the pristine live action. I tested several channels and the problems were consistent across the board. I did not have a lot of recorded material so I went ahead and uninstalled the drive. Everything works fine again.
> I will be calling Apricorn technical support in the morning but wanted to check if anyone else had faced and solved this problem. Thanks.


IIRC there was at least one other report of issues with an Aprcorn drive...and I think it was the eSATA cable.

I've used their external drives before and they've always performed flawlessly with one exception...a drive that arrived DOA. They have a very responsive support center and replaced it immediately so I'd give them a call for sure.

They'll probably tell you that the drive hasn't been certified for TiVo, but they still should be able to help.


----------



## Burt Spielman

Burt Spielman said:


> jlib said:
> 
> 
> 
> You simply added a 1TB external drive to your 1TB internal drive. He is adding an external drive _and_ at the same time upgrading his non-stock 750GB internal drive to a 1TB drive. I think the issue is the expanding not the marrying.
> 
> 
> 
> I believe you're right. Except, of course, that I'm not doing anything at the moment. I'm waiting for a PCI SATA controller and SATA cables to arrive and I'm identifying a fast(er) PC I can borrow to do the deed.
Click to expand...

Back again, now having received the PCI SATA controller and cables I referred to earlier.

I wound up being able to copy the contents of the 750GB drive to the new 1TB drive in a few minutes more than 6 hours on a PIII PC. I've now progressed as far as disconnecting the 750GB drive and connecting the second 1TB drive I intend to use in the Antec case (FAQ: III, 11, 10). However, it had been used previously in another PC and can only be selected in WinMFS if I click on "Show mounted drives" (FAQ: III, 11, 12). When I attempt Mfsadd (FAQ: III, 11, 13), I get an error message stating, "Not a TiVo drive."

What now?


----------



## thilt

richsadams said:


> IIRC there was at least one other report of issues with an Aprcorn drive...and I think it was the eSATA cable.
> 
> I've used their external drives before and they've always performed flawlessly with one exception...a drive that arrived DOA. They have a very responsive support center and replaced it immediately so I'd give them a call for sure.
> 
> They'll probably tell you that the drive hasn't been certified for TiVo, but they still should be able to help.


Thanks, Rich. Just got off the phone with Tech Support. They're shipping a replacement unit today.


----------



## Burt Spielman

Burt Spielman said:


> I wound up being able to copy the contents of the 750GB drive to the new 1TB drive in a few minutes more than 6 hours on a PIII PC. I've now progressed as far as disconnecting the 750GB drive and connecting the second 1TB drive I intend to use in the Antec case (FAQ: III, 11, 10). However, it had been used previously in another PC and can only be selected in WinMFS if I click on "Show mounted drives" (FAQ: III, 11, 12). When I attempt Mfsadd (FAQ: III, 11, 13), I get an error message stating, "Not a TiVo drive."


Further to this, I decided to try copying the original 750GB drive to the "non-TiVo" drive. I'm in the midst of that six-hour process right now.

For what it's worth, when I attempt the Mfscopy with the 750GB selected in Winmfs as drive A and a 1TB as drive B per FAQ: III, 11, 5, I cannot see any destination drive unless I _deselect_ drive B. Only then can I select the 1TB drive as the destination drive A. Am I missing something here?


----------



## Dr. Bear

I installed a TiVo-approved My DVR Expander a few days ago. It took two restarts, but it's now up and running beautifully. Nothing has deleted in days, and I've got 76 programs in my TiVo suggestions folder. This rocks. 

Now when will TiVo approve a 1 TB drive?


----------



## BobB

Dr. Bear said:


> I installed a TiVo-approved My DVR Expander a few days ago. It took two restarts, but it's now up and running beautifully. Nothing has deleted in days, and I've got 76 programs in my TiVo suggestions folder. This rocks.
> 
> Now when will TiVo approve a 1 TB drive?


There is a comment in the FAQ to the effect that WD plans to introduce a 1TB version of the one TiVO is currently selling "by this time next year," but it's not clear when that was originally written - I'm guessing around October? Which means we can probably expect to see one introduced in time for Xmas sales next year. My question (to myself) is, can I wait that long, or will I give in and buy the 500 GB one sooner?


----------



## Dr. Bear

BobB said:


> There is a comment in the FAQ to the effect that WD plans to introduce a 1TB version of the one TiVO is currently selling "by this time next year," but it's not clear when that was originally written - I'm guessing around October? Which means we can probably expect to see one introduced in time for Xmas sales next year. My question (to myself) is, can I wait that long, or will I give in and buy the 500 GB one sooner?


I had that debate with myself and went ahead with the 500 GB. I decided to just spend the money now, knowing I'll spend it again (and then some) when the 1TB comes out. Plus, who knows if they'll actually get it released in a year?


----------



## danschn

I lost that debate with myself, so I'm waiting for the 1 terrabyte drive.

1) They are plentiful on the market, so how long can it really take for TiVo to approve another from Western Digital.

2) In the meantime, I've got 1.5 TB of drive space on my PC that I inconviently access using the Home Media Option and Tivo Desktop. I think I can wait.

3) By the time the 1TB drive is released, the additional 500 GB will come cheaply compared to buyin the first 500 GB today. I say it will be $299 or less for the whole thing.


----------



## ilh

danschn said:


> 1) They are plentiful on the market, so how long can it really take for TiVo to approve another from Western Digital.


To my knowledge, WD doesn't have an AV disk larger than 500GB currently.


----------



## jlib

Ben_Jamin75 said:


> can anyone recommend a usb -> sata adapter that supports 1TB drives?
> 
> I bought two adapters from zipzoomfly but they only support up to 500 GB.
> 
> At first winmfs saw the drive with this adapter, now it won't see it at all.


Theoretically, they should support drives up to 144 Petabytes (144,000,000 GB). It is misleading for Vantec to say they have 48-bit LBA support but then artificially limit size (Vantec actually claims 750 GB support which still doesn't do you any good).


----------



## lpinnell

Hello all,

Let's say I buy the current WD DVR Extender, the 500GB model today, and then when a larger capacity model comes out later, can I "retire" my current DVR extender to my PC and use it there? I understand I will lose programs, and the performance may not be optimal for a PC since it is configured for quiet DVR use, but I would rather not just leave it on a shelf doing nothing. It could be useful as a backup device, where top performance is not a priority.

Thanks,
Lee


----------



## richsadams

lpinnell said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Let's say I buy the current WD DVR Extender, the 500GB model today, and then when a larger capacity model comes out later, can I "retire" my current DVR extender to my PC and use it there? I understand I will lose programs, and the performance may not be optimal for a PC since it is configured for quiet DVR use, but I would rather not just leave it on a shelf doing nothing. It could be useful as a backup device, where top performance is not a priority.
> 
> Thanks,
> Lee


IMO I would say yes, you can use WD's DVR Expander as a regular external drive...or even take the drive out of the enclosure and pop into your PC. You'd just need to format it. AFAIK there's nothing unusual about the drive other than the TiVo's ability to recognize the model number.

That said I did note the following on BB's web site page for the Expander:



> Note: not intended to be an archival or portable storage device; DVR expander is designed to expand the recording capacity of a single DVR


I've no idea why that would be true. They might want to avoid trouble with people that don't know how to format a drive I suppose. The only other thing I can imagine would have something to do with the eSATA bridge being different somehow but IIRC a few folks here have connected them to their PC's for diagnostic testing with normal results. Even if the bridge is a problem there's no reason it wouldn't work internally IMHO. Perhaps someone else can chime in?

The performance should be fine as is, but if you require ultra high-speed response you could increase the AAM (automatic acoustic management) settings from 124 to 258 with the Hitachi Feature Tool.


----------



## ilh

I thought the DVR Expander has an "AV" drive in it. My understanding is these drives have firmware optimized to streaming and therefore try less to retry errors under the assumption that retries can cause stutters in DVR type applications. If so, these drives may be more likely to produce errors in a normal PC environment. Then again, I don't know how likely a retry is to correct an error.

(Drive manufacturers also have firmware optimized for RAID, which similarly quickly throws an error, which can be corrected by some types of RAID, rather than slowly retry trying to correct it.)

Am I off base on this?


----------



## richsadams

ilh said:


> I thought the DVR Expander has an "AV" drive in it. My understanding is these drives have firmware optimized to streaming and therefore try less to retry errors under the assumption that retries can cause stutters in DVR type applications. If so, these drives may be more likely to produce errors in a normal PC environment. Then again, I don't know how likely a retry is to correct an error.
> 
> (Drive manufacturers also have firmware optimized for RAID, which similarly quickly throws an error, which can be corrected by some types of RAID, rather than slowly retry trying to correct it.)
> 
> Am I off base on this?


I don't think you're off base, but reading the WD specs shows the only difference to be the AAM. Seagate on the other hand does show the error correction difference with their DVR specific HDD's (DB35 series)...so it might be true with WD's product. A call to their offices might clear things up.

There are others here more knowledgeable than me about HDD's that say there's practically no difference either way. In any case, unless there is some seriously high calculation/processing going on I wouldn't think there should be a problem using the Expander with a PC.

I'm going to put our Seagate DB35 in my PC and run it for a while and see how it goes...but then I'm not a huge gamer and I don't do extended mathematical calculations so I don't expect any issues.

Good point though. Maybe some of the experts will chime in.


----------



## jlib

Western Digital does have an AV drive that is bigger than 500GB, by the way.

There is no problem using a bare so-called AV or DVR drive in a PC. They are simply capable of the additional ATA 7 Streaming Command Set (including the urgent bit). If you send them regular read/write commands they respond like a regular drive as far as error recovery goes. This is why all these drives (Maxtor QuickView, Seagate DB35, and Hitachi CinemaStar) were all originally considered OEM drives by their manufacturers. They were intended to be sold to companies to design and build a DVR or other consumer electronics device around. They are only of advantage to a host that makes use of the specific streaming commands. The TiVo does not use the Streaming Command Set and treats the drive like any other.

Some unscrupulous retailers started reselling them at premium prices on the secondary market boasting of their DVR performance (the 1TB CinemaStar initially had a several hundred dollar premium over the functionally equivalent DeskStar when there was only one vendor reselling OEM stock). They do have the advantage of already having the head seek performance acoustically detuned but most regular drives (save Seagate) can have that done manually with no price premium.

There is no technical reason that drives couldn't default to a lazy error recovery (as with the RAID edition of some drives) in response to normal commands. A RAID would always want the non-aggressive error recovery since the RAID controller itself is the arbiter of error correction not the drive and there is no standard RAID command set that could be used. A DVR drive on the other hand sometimes needs full error recovery capability for operating system and database issues. Hence the optional Streaming Command Set standard that DVR manufacturers and drive manufacturers have agreed to. Seagate even says they can deliver the AV drive with whatever error recovery level the OEM requires as default or just use the standardized Streaming Command Set to activate it as needed. Hitachi has now gone one step further than the AT 7 standard with their AV-Zoning on the newest CinemaStars (unfortunately, that is non-standard).

The bottom line is that the future TiVo Series 4 four tuner model  may have some use for the streaming functionality of a AV drive (if designed to capitalize on it) but current TiVo models don't make any use of it.

Here's some light reading  for anyone interested in the subject: See Section 4.17 Streaming Feature Set of the AT Attachment with Packet Interface - 7 Volume 1 - Register Delivered Command Set, Logical Register Set (ATA/ATAPI-7 V1) document.


----------



## jlib

richsadams said:


> That said I did note the following on BB's web site page for the Expander:
> 
> 
> 
> Note: not intended to be an archival or portable storage device; DVR expander is designed to expand the recording capacity of a single DVR
Click to expand...

Since Western Digital is not OEMing the bare drive but instead selling the drive with the enclosure as an external DVR add-on there is no reason they could not or would not specially set the response of the drive to be appropriate to the known end use: a non-booting, non-OS containing auxiliary DVR drive. Because of that, and since there is not a simple way for the end user to modify the firmware setting for error recovery, I would take their admonition at face value. The drive itself is probably not appropriate for regular use with critical data.


----------



## ilh

jlib, thanks for the correction and wealth of information!


----------



## Burt Spielman

Burt Spielman said:


> What now?


Yesterday, I encountered some more issues in what should be a simple, straightforward procedure.

Using mfscopy, I was able to copy the contents of my 750GB Seagate DB35 drive to a 1TB Seagate 7200.11 drive in a little over 6 hours using SATA connectors and cables on a PIII PC. However, I had to deselect the 1TB drive (initially selected as origin drive B per FAQ instructions) in order for mfscopy to permit me to select it as the destination drive A. The program did not ask me whether I wanted to further expand the drive. Unlike my prior attempts using USB-to-SATA adapters, the program did update itself on-screen, and accurately predicted the amount of time necessary to complete the copy.

When I attempted the mfsadd from the newly copied 1TB drive (destined to be the TiVo's new internal drive) to another 1TB drive (to be the external drive), I encountered a "Not a TiVo drive" error. This second 1TB drive had been formatted in a PC, and although I seemed to recall that it didn't matter how a drive was formatted for Winmfs to work, I couldn't get past this error.

I decided to devote another 6 hours to copying my original 750GB drive to the second 1TB drive, just to get it to be recognized as TiVo formatted by Winmfs. That seemed to work, and I was able then to "marry" the two 1TB drives with mfsadd.

I installed the first 1TB drive into the TiVo and the second into an Antec MX-1 external case, then hooked the latter up using the Antec-supplied eSATA cable, which seemed to seat positively into the sockets on both the TiVo and the MX-1.

When I powered up the MX-1, however, the Seagate drive would not spin up if the eSATA cable was connected. If I powered the MX-1 up with the cable disconnected, then connected the cable, the drive spun up fine. I am at a loss to explain this.

Now, when I booted up the TiVo, I got the GSOD. It states that one should not power down the TiVo and that the repair can take three hours, but that, if the TiVo doesn't reboot after that time, one should call TiVo Customer Care. Since this upgrade procedure is unsupported by TiVo and I didn't expect that TiVo would be of any help in this situation, I elected to power everything down, rechecked my connections, and rebooted a couple of times, each time getting only as far as this screen.

I then disconnected the external drive and booted up again. This time, as expected, the TiVo reported that it couldn't find the external drive, and asked whether I wanted to "divorce" it from the internal drive. I proceeded to do that, and, when the TiVo booted up yet again, all seemed normal. The TiVo reported the expected 141 HD hours (I did not use "supersize," about which I have a question), but after only about a half-hour, the TV audio and video began to stutter very badly, accompanied by clicking sounds from the internal Seagate drive.

After replacing the new 1TB drive with the original 750GB drive, everything was fine, but, of course, I'm right back where I started!

I now have an RMA from NewEgg to return the two Seagate drives. They were very accommodating, despite the fact that I had purchased the drives on November 23 and their normal 30-day return policy has expired. Expecting the worst from NewEgg, I had tried to reach Seagate tech support first, with absolutely no success. The quick issuance of a NewEgg RMA for a full refund with no restocking charge was, at least, a pleasant surprise.

I've now ordered a couple of Hitachi 1TB Deskstar drives, and, when they arrive, I'll attempt this all over again. Now that I know that the mfscopy is at least manageable in terms of time, the upgrade doesn't seem as though it should be so troublesome. Unless, of course, I have further equipment gremlins I'm not aware of.

Now, a couple of questions:

When I attempt the mfscopy with the 750GB selected in Winmfs as drive A and a 1TB as drive B per FAQ: III, 11, 5, I cannot see any destination drive unless I deselect drive B. Only then can I select the 1TB drive as the destination drive A. Am I missing something here or can someone comment on what I seem to be doing differently from what the FAQ suggests?

And, regarding the Supersize command, when does one apply it? Before issuing the mfscopy command?

And a comment or two:

I'd avoid the current crop of Seagate 1TB drives, even if they did work. They're pretty noisy compared to the 750GB drive, with a lot of clicking upon spin up. Perhaps a future iteration of the 1TB Seagate drive will emulate the DB35 acoustically.

I'd also suggest that the FAQ more emphatically state that an SATA controller is the way to proceed when copying a lot of video data from drive to drive. The SATA controller card, purchased on eBay from a vendor in Hong Kong, was significantly cheaper (under $10) than a pair of the recommended USB-to-SATA adapters (about $30). Fortunately, that's only a relatively few dollars wasted on USB-to-SATA adapters, but I lost a fair amount of time trying to go the USB route.


----------



## jlib

I agree, SATA PCI cards are now so cheap that that should be the preferred approach. The USB adapters I think were originally intended for folks with laptops.

Regular, non-DB35 Seagate drives are not a good idea for DVR use from the noise standpoint as you discovered.

One thing I don't follow in your procedure. When you do the mfscopy you said you did not do an mfsadd to expand the new internal drive. How is it that it ended up full size 1TB instead of 750GB as the original? Does using the mfsadd later as part of the marrying procedure also expand the internal drive at the same time if there is space?


----------



## richsadams

Thanks for all of the details Burt...you earned your Pioneer star with this one!  

I've been following your ongoing saga, but since all of my experience with upgrading drives is with the old Linux boot disk I didn't want to give any poor advice regarding WinMFS. It sounds as if through trial and error that you've mastered it for the most part.

I think you're the first to try the Seagate 1TB HDD's. It's good (or bad) to know that they are noisy. The 1TB WD GP drive that I have is whisper quiet. I've read/heard that the Hitachi's are working well in TiVos.

Thanks again and let us know how the new effort goes.

P.S. I've never had NewEgg do an RMA w/o a restocking fee. Way to go! :up:


----------



## richsadams

jlib said:


> Since Western Digital is not OEMing the bare drive but instead selling the drive with the enclosure as an external DVR add-on there is no reason they could not or would not specially set the response of the drive to be appropriate to the known end use: a non-booting, non-OS containing auxiliary DVR drive. Because of that, and since there is not a simple way for the end user to modify the firmware setting for error recovery, I would take their admonition at face value. The drive itself is probably not appropriate for regular use with critical data.


Makes sense...cheers for that! :up:


----------



## simontiki

bkdtv said:


> simontiki,
> 
> Since you got the 1Tb Hitachi, you'll probably also want to set its automatic acoustic management (AAM) setting to 128 to minimize seek noise. You can do that using the Hitachi Feature Tool boot CD.
> 
> You can download the free WinMFS utility (mentioned in previous post) here.


Arg, I finished the upgrade and it's all back together, but I would like to make this setting. Thanks for the information. I'll download the CD image tonight and change the setting this weekend.

Just a note to future readers...
The utility worked like a charm! All the advice and info from richsadams and 
bkdtv was right on the money. I apologize for not updating / thanking you sooner.

Thanks to all for the help.


----------



## simontiki

bkdtv said:


> simontiki,
> 
> Since you got the 1Tb Hitachi, you'll probably also want to set its automatic acoustic management (AAM) setting to 128 to minimize seek noise. You can do that using the Hitachi Feature Tool boot CD.
> 
> You can download the free WinMFS utility (mentioned in previous post) here.


BTW, I'm sure I can use the floppy, right? In addition, do you know if the tool recognizes the drive if it's connected via USB?

Thanks again!


----------



## richsadams

simontiki said:


> BTW, I'm sure I can use the floppy, right? In addition, do you know if the tool recognizes the drive if it's connected via USB?
> 
> Thanks again!


Glad to help and congrats!

I used the Hitachi Feature Tool on a floppy...works great.

I have an external HDD connected w/USB and I just tried the Feature Tool and it did not recognize the external drive...only my two internal HDD's and my DVD and CD drives. I don't know if the tool is limited to four drives or if it just doesn't recognize my external drive. Let us know how it works for you.


----------



## simontiki

richsadams said:


> Glad to help and congrats!
> 
> I used the Hitachi Feature Tool on a floppy...works great.
> 
> I have an external HDD connected w/USB and I just tried the Feature Tool and it did not recognize the external drive...only my two internal HDD's and my DVD and CD drives. I don't know if the tool is limited to four drives or if it just doesn't recognize my external drive. Let us know how it works for you.


If it doesn't work, I guess my only option is to crack open my wife's desktop and hook it up, but I can't think of how to do that right now. (Her desktop is embarrassingly old.) I used my laptop with the MX-1 inclosure via USB to do the upgrade. I'm probably missing something obvious.


----------



## jlib

It won't work because it uses basically a DOS boot disk. Although there were some later day attempts to add USB support to legacy DOS the Feature Tool boot disk does not include it. The MFS Live boot disk (or any current Linux boot disk) does see drives attached to USB. Hdparm is the command to use for AAM settings.


----------



## Burt Spielman

jlib said:


> I agree, SATA PCI cards are now so cheap that that should be the preferred approach. The USB adapters I think were originally intended for folks with laptops.
> 
> Regular, non-DB35 Seagate drives are not a good idea for DVR use from the noise standpoint as you discovered.
> 
> One thing I don't follow in your procedure. When you do the mfscopy you said you did not do an mfsadd to expand the new internal drive. How is it that it ended up full size 1TB instead of 750GB as the original? Does using the mfsadd later as part of the marrying procedure also expand the internal drive at the same time if there is space?


Agreed about laptops (and Intel iMacs, too). But with the huge amount of data being transferred to and from these 750GB and 1TB drives, the USB route is excruciatingly slow. I'm talking 6 hours on a PIII PC vs. a potential 6 _days_ on a much faster Intel iMac running WinXP under Parallels Desktop.

One thing I neglected to mention in my lengthy post was that I departed from the FAQ in another way as well:

Prior experience (back when the vital mfscopy step had somehow been omitted from the FAQ; the only instruction after backup was to do the mfsadd) showed that doing the mfsadd acted upon the A drive, that is, the drive you are copying from. I know this because, not having done an mfscopy at all (and thus having nothing on the newly inserted 1TB drive), I reinserted the original 750GB drive into the TiVo, only to find the TiVo looking for the external drive the TiVo thought it had been "married" to (proving that the mfsadd had acted on the A drive, the 750GB). At that time, I let the TiVo perform the "divorce," returning the 750GB drive to its original state.

But the FAQ instructions clearly state (FAQ: III, 11, 8), "After the copy is complete, select Tools-> Mfsadd." There's no mention of moving the new 1TB drive to position A before doing this. I used Winmfs to select the newly copied 1TB drive as A and the intended external 1TB drive as B, then I performed the mfsadd, only to run into the trouble I've already described.

To be honest, I don't recall whether I did an mfsadd on the first 1TB drive alone, but if I did, I had moved it to position A. I might have then connected the external drive as B and done mfsadd again.

I'm not sure whether this was "according to Hoyle" (or, should I say, "according to bkdtv"?), but, in any case, it was a departure from the specific FAQ instructions.

I am certainly thankful for all the effort expended to create Winmfs and the FAQ, but what concerns me is that I am certainly not the first person to attempt this, yet I can't seem to get clarification on some of these puzzling and potentially confusing issues.


----------



## Burt Spielman

richsadams said:


> Thanks for all of the details Burt...you earned your Pioneer star with this one!
> 
> I've been following your ongoing saga, but since all of my experience with upgrading drives is with the old Linux boot disk I didn't want to give any poor advice regarding WinMFS. It sounds as if through trial and error that you've mastered it for the most part.
> 
> I think you're the first to try the Seagate 1TB HDD's. It's good (or bad) to know that they are noisy. The 1TB WD GP drive that I have is whisper quiet. I've read/heard that the Hitachi's are working well in TiVos.
> 
> Thanks again and let us know how the new effort goes.
> 
> P.S. I've never had NewEgg do an RMA w/o a restocking fee. Way to go! :up:


Maybe they liberalized their policy for Holiday returns. In any case, here it is, excerpted from their confirming e-mail:


> HERE IS A SUMMARY OF YOUR RMA:
> Customer Name: Burton A. Spielman
> Customer Number: xxx
> E-mail address: [email protected]
> Address: xxx
> Phone: xxx
> 
> (22-148-274) (HD 1T|ST 7K 32M SATA2 ST31000340AS) (Quantity: 2 )
> RMAReason: Defective/Failure
> 
> Type of RMA: RMA Refund
> Restocking Fee: No


The Seagate drives go back in tomorrow's FedEx Ground shipment. I'll continue to post about my ongoing "saga." Maybe others will benefit from my experiences.


----------



## richsadams

jlib said:


> It won't work because it uses basically a DOS boot disk. Although there were some later day attempts to add USB support to legacy DOS the Feature Tool boot disk does not include it. The MFS Live boot disk (or any current Linux boot disk) does see drives attached to USB. Hdparm is the command to use for AAM settings.


There you go...problem solved! :up:


----------



## simontiki

jlib said:


> It won't work because it uses basically a DOS boot disk. Although there were some later day attempts to add USB support to legacy DOS the Feature Tool boot disk does not include it. The MFS Live boot disk (or any current Linux boot disk) does see drives attached to USB. Hdparm is the command to use for AAM settings.


So you're saying I can use the MFS Live boot disk, with the drive attached to USB, and use the Hdparm command? Is this a menu-driven type utility?

Thanks!


----------



## simontiki

richsadams said:


> There you go...problem solved! :up:


What can I say. You guys ROCK! I just hooked up the original TiVo drive via USB, found it with the boot CD and changed the AAM setting. All I need to do is grab the drive out of the TiVo box and repeat.

Thanks jlib and rich!


----------



## richsadams

simontiki said:


> What can I say. You guys ROCK! I just hooked up the original TiVo drive via USB, found it with the boot CD and changed the AAM setting. All I need to do is grab the drive out of the TiVo box and repeat.
> 
> Thanks jlib and rich!


So how will you be able to enjoy your new HDD if it isn't making any racket?


----------



## Ben_Jamin75

Does anyone know what hard drive is inside the Western Digital "My Book Essentials" that is on sale at best buy this week for $249.99? Would it work with a TiVoHD if its transplanted into a Antec MX-1?


----------



## 1283

Ben_Jamin75 said:


> Does anyone know what hard drive is inside the Western Digital "My Book Essentials" that is on sale at best buy this week for $249.99? Would it work with a TiVoHD if its transplanted into a Antec MX-1?


OEM WD10EACS. It would work only if you open up the TiVo and expand it yourself, in which case it's better just to replace the internal drive.


----------



## Ben_Jamin75

Why would it work as a first (internal) drive, but not a second (external) drive?

Being a TiVoHD, I'd have to use WinMFS to do MFSAdd to marry the drives.


----------



## 1283

It would as either drive, but since you have to open up the case and run MFSadd, I would recommend just replacing the internal drive. Higher reliability with a single drive system, and you don't need to deal with an external component just for an additional 160GB.


----------



## Ben_Jamin75

thanks, but the internal is already upgraded to 1 TB, now adding a external 1 TB  Just wanted to make sure the drive will work before I buy it and rip apart the enclosure.


----------



## oldnacl

I'm not involved in this particular discussion, but wanted to chime in and thank all for the great advice and instructions on adding/marrying drives. I recently used MSFtools and married a 750 Seagate FAP to my TiVoHD internal drive. I'm very hapy to see 119 hours of HD recording available.
I have a WD green 1 TB drive in a computer now, but may remove it, copy and run the marry process again, replacing the 160 GB TiVo drive.
THANKS!


----------



## richsadams

oldnacl said:


> I have a WD green 1 TB drive in a computer now, but may remove it, copy and run the marry process again, replacing the 160 GB TiVo drive.
> THANKS!


Then all you have to do is figure out where to find the time to watch all of those recordings!


----------



## Ben_Jamin75

Ben_Jamin75 said:


> Does anyone know what hard drive is inside the Western Digital "My Book Essentials" that is on sale at best buy this week for $249.99? Would it work with a TiVoHD if its transplanted into a Antec MX-1?


Success!!!

TiVo HD upgraded to 2 TB 

System Information reporting
292 HD hours or
2777 SD hours

Thanks to everyone here for all the info & help. Especially to bkdtv, richadams and of course, spike2k5!!! :up::up::up:


----------



## richsadams

Ben_Jamin75 said:


> Success!!!
> 
> TiVo HD upgraded to 2 TB
> 
> System Information reporting
> 292 HD hours or
> 2777 SD hours
> 
> Thanks to everyone here for all the info & help. Especially to bkdtv, richadams and of course, spike2k5!!! :up::up::up:


Excellent! Now you can go out and try and double the horsepower on your snow blower! (After youre done watching TV of course.)


----------



## ThAbtO

Ben_Jamin75 said:


> Success!!!
> 
> TiVo HD upgraded to 2 TB
> 
> System Information reporting
> 292 HD hours or
> 2777 SD hours
> 
> Thanks to everyone here for all the info & help. Especially to bkdtv, richadams and of course, spike2k5!!! :up::up::up:


Getting enough to watch on TiVo yet?


----------



## lrhorer

richsadams said:


> So how will you be able to enjoy your new HDD if it isn't making any racket?


Damn straight! What good is a high tech gizwidget without das blinken lights and der sparken smoken?


----------



## Ben_Jamin75

ThAbtO said:


> Getting enough to watch on TiVo yet?


Working on it 
105 suggestions so far.


----------



## Burt Spielman

Burt Spielman said:


> I'll continue to post about my ongoing "saga." Maybe others will benefit from my experiences.


All right, back yet again, this time with a pair of Hitachi Deskstar 1TB drives in hand.

The Hitachi drives are apparently pre-formatted as Windows drive "G" with two roughly 500GB partitions, the first (called "EasyDrive") recognized by Windows and the second reported as free space.

I've attached the 750GB internal drive and one of the new Hitachi drives to the PCI SATA controller. In WinMFS, I'm able to select the 750GB as drive A and the 1TB as drive B, the latter, however, only after clicking "select" and "show mounted drives."

When I initially tried to execute Mfscopy, I could not do so. The Mfscopy window essentially has four panesSource A, Source B, Destination A and Destination B. Source A shows the 750GB drive and Source B the 1TB drive, as selected. But Destination A offers no options expect "none." Same for Destination B. In the past, when I went back and deselected the 1TB drive, I was able to choose it as Destination A and proceed with the copy. Not so this time.

It turns out that I had to erase the Hitachi format. To prevent a stupid mistake, I made sure that my original 750GB drive was disconnected, selected the Hitachi as drive A, then executed WinMFS's erase format command.

Sure enough, I'm now able to perform the copy. WinMFS recognizes both drives, but in Mfscopy I have selected only the 750GB as the source A drive as in the past, copying to the 1TB drive as destination A drive. Once again, to repeat, no drive is selected as the B drive.

That'll come later, when I remove the 750GB drive from the computer, switch the newly copied 1TB drive from B to A, add the fresh (to be external) 1TB drive as B, then perform the Mfsadd. I suspect that WinMFS will recognize the pre-formated Hitachi drive as above, but I might erase its format just to be sure the Mfsadd works correctly.

I'm hoping this works this time. (By the way, WinMFS went blank on the screen this time, but I know now to invoke the Task Manager to monitor the progress of the copy. I don't know why WinMFS refreshes on some occasions but not on others.)


----------



## Burger23

Some months ago I successfully put a 750gb Western drive into my TiVo HD. All worked fine.

Recently, I decided to add another 750gb using the now activated eSata external drive connection. I followed the instructions, called original replacement Western drive #1, and the new Seagate drive, #2. Then I ran mfsAdd and it completed succesfully.

I powered the TiVo on, waited a few minutes for it to boot-- but no picture, no sound. I took everything apart and double checked that connections were good. Powered back up- same problem- no picture, screen is totally black, and no sound. I tried toggling the MODE button on the front of the case- still no picture.

Not sure where to go from here. Should I pull the internal drive and try to run mfsAdd again. Any advice will be appreicated.

*FIXED- WORKING NOW! *I tore the TiVo down and reconnected hard drives to pc in order to get the mfsinfo.txt file. Got info, put everything back-- and it now works. Go figure-- but I now have 198 hours of HD storage. Fabulous-- thank you so mich Spike for this wonderful tool.


----------



## richsadams

Burger23 said:


> I powered the TiVo on, waited a few minutes for it to boot-- but no picture, no sound. I took everything apart and double checked that connections were good. Powered back up- same problem- no picture, screen is totally black, and no sound. I tried toggling the MODE button on the front of the case- still no picture.
> 
> *FIXED- WORKING NOW! *I tore the TiVo down and reconnected hard drives to pc in order to get the mfsinfo.txt file. Got info, put everything back-- and it now works. Go figure-- but I now have 198 hours of HD storage. Fabulous-- thank you so mich Spike for this wonderful tool.


Heck, you took the fun out of it.  I was going to suggest turning your TV on. 

Congrats on gettin' 'er dun! :up:


----------



## Burt Spielman

Burt Spielman said:


> I'm hoping this works this time.


Well, it sort of half worked.

I successfully copied the 750GB drive to the new internal 1TB drive. Before running Mfsadd, I dropped the 1TB drive into the TiVo and it worked.

I connected the second 1TB drive to the PC and used WinMFS to erase its format, then reconnected the first 1TB drive (the new internal drive) to the PC. I selected the internal as A and the external as B.

However, when I ran Mfsadd, I encountered "Error Number: 26; Error Message: Something went wrong with mfadd!" (sic)

I disconnected the internal drive so as not to disturb it, then again erased the format of the external drive, now reported as a TiVo drive even though Mfsadd was apparently not successful. Reconnected the internal again as before, tried Mfsadd again, and again got Error 26.

Now what? My patience is really being tried here.


----------



## richsadams

Burt, your patience is admirable!  I don't have any suggestions other than to visit and post your most recent issues on the MFSLive forum and see if Spike can give you a hand. I haven't seen him posting here for a while so he may be unaware of your trials and tribulations.

Let us know when you hit pay dirt...and I know you will. :up:


----------



## Burt Spielman

richsadams said:


> Burt, your patience is admirable!  I don't have any suggestions other than to visit and post your most recent issues on the MFSLive forum and see if Spike can give you a hand. I haven't seen him posting here for a while so he may be unaware of your trials and tribulations.
> 
> Let us know when you hit pay dirt...and I know you will. :up:


Thanks for the vote of confidence. I just visited the MFSLive forum, and found that someone else had the same Error 26 problem I did, under the exact same circumstances. I've PMed him to see if he can offer any further insights.


----------



## jlib

Burt, I have not used WinMFS so I am not the best advisor but I do not see where you are expanding your new internal drive from 750GB to 1TB full capacity after the copy from your current 750GB internal drive. Doesn't mfsadd have to be used both for the expansion of the internal drive _and_ the subsequent marrying of the external drive?


----------



## Burt Spielman

jlib said:


> Burt, I have not used WinMFS so I am not the best advisor but I do not see where you are expanding your new internal drive from 750GB to 1TB full capacity after the copy from your current 750GB internal drive. Doesn't mfs add have to be used both for the expansion of the internal drive _and_ the subsequent marrying of the external drive?


At the end of the Mfscopy, you're advised that there's additional capacity available (I don't recall the exact wording) and asked whether you want to expand the drive. With both the old 750GB drive and the newly copied 1TB drive still connected, I figured there could be no harm in answering "yes." Since the old drive couldn't be expanded, I figured that this request applied only to the new drive and wouldn't affect the old. (This may seem obvious, but, as the result of my lengthy saga, I've learned not to take anything for granted as far as these seemingly innocuous questions in the software are concerned.)

About using Mfsadd to marry the internal 1TB to the new 1TB external, I've heard from the fellow on the MFSlive forum who experienced the same Error 26 that I did. He said he resorted to the Linux boot disk, and that, then, the Mfsadd worked. This surprised me somewhat, since Spike, the author of the MFSLive and WinMFS software, stated some time ago that the Boot CD will not work to expand an already expanded drive, leaving WinMFS as the only solution. I guess he never addressed the fact that you need to use the Linux software to do the marrying after having used WinMFS to do the expanding.

I've now progressed to the point where I've burned the boot CD. I'll need to remove the new 1TB internal drive one last (I hope!) time from the TiVo. Then, after futzing with the BIOS (oh, how I wish I were using my Mac, where you simply depress a key on the keyboard to boot from a CD), I'll connect both drives to the PC, exercising extreme care in determining which drive is which (they're both the same size). Not having done this before with the Linux version, I intend to connect one drive at a time to the SATA controller card to see how the program identifies it. That should, I hope, give me a clue about which drive is which.

And, then, I'll do the Mfsadd. Stay tuned.


----------



## Burt Spielman

Burt Spielman said:


> Stay tuned.


OK, doing the Mafsadd from the Linux Boot CD seems to have worked, as it reported the number of expanded hours at the end.

However (does it seem I'm using that word often?), the TiVo doesn't see the Antec MX-1 external drive. I seem to recall people having problems with the eSATA-to-eSATA cable provided with the MX-1, something to do with the length of the actual connector at the TiVo end of the cable (cf: FAQ,III,24 and 26). I don't think the problem is the MX-1 itself, because I removed the drive from it and, using an independent power supply (from a now-unused USB-to-SATA adapter), hooked the bare drive to the TiVo with the SATA-to-eSATA bracket that came with the MX-1 and the problematic cable.

Now, since the TiVo won't operate without the external drive, I'll have to divorce the drives (yet again!), and wait until I can procure a replacement eSATA II cable.


----------



## Ben_Jamin75

Burt Spielman said:


> I seem to recall people having problems with the eSATA-to-eSATA cable provided with the MX-1, something to do with the length of the actual connector at the TiVo end of the cable (cf: FAQ,III,24 and 26).


FWIW I have my MX-1 hooked ut to my TiVoHD with the included cable.


----------



## jlib

Burt Spielman said:


> ...I guess he never addressed the fact that you need to use the Linux software to do the marrying after having used WinMFS to do the expanding...


Ah, I see! That is pretty convoluted but if it works I guess it's OK. Hopefully, your current roadblock is just cable related...


----------



## Burt Spielman

jlib said:


> Ah, I see! That is pretty convoluted but if it works I guess it's OK. Hopefully, your current roadblock is just cable related...


Let's hope that's the case. Otherwise, it _is_ the case, Antec, that is! Once again, as I await more hardware, namely the eSATA cable, we'll see.


----------



## agoldberg

I had Cox come out to help with a pixelation problem, which they did not fix, but while working on the Tivo, they removed my external drive by accident and they went through the removal procedure. Now my drive is not recognized by the system as being there before. Is there any way to get my recordings back? If I add it back to the system and do the initializaion, will I lose all my recordings? Help!!


----------



## richsadams

agoldberg said:


> I had Cox come out to help with a pixelation problem, which they did not fix, but while working on the Tivo, they removed my external drive by accident and they went through the removal procedure. Now my drive is not recognized by the system as being there before. Is there any way to get my recordings back? If I add it back to the system and do the initializaion, will I lose all my recordings? Help!!


 Oh no! If the external drive was divorced all of the recordings that were made since the drive was attached are history.  TiVo reformats expansion drives every time they are attached. AFAIK no one has been able to recover anything from a divorced drive.

The recordings you had before adding your eSATA drive should still be there however. That's probably not much comfort.

You could sue Cox for pain and suffering.


----------



## letsgomets

Does anyone have a suggestion on what to do if my TivoHD doesn't recognize the My DVR Expander drive? 

I just got the new Tivo (hooked it up with a cable card today and working well) and a My DVR Expander drive. The Tivo is running 9.2. But when I plug in the external drive exactly as the manual says -- repeatedly -- and go to the screen for an external drive, it says that there isn't one. I try it over and over again. The WD support page just says that if it's not recognized, I don't have the correct software installed but according to Tivo, I do.

Defective drive? Defective Tivo? Or something else I can fix myself?

Thanks.


----------



## Ben_Jamin75

Could be the cable. Search this thread for esata cable or my dvr expander. There have been reports of bad cables shipping with the dvr expander.


----------



## richsadams

letsgomets said:


> Does anyone have a suggestion on what to do if my TivoHD doesn't recognize the My DVR Expander drive?
> 
> I just got the new Tivo (hooked it up with a cable card today and working well) and a My DVR Expander drive. The Tivo is running 9.2. But when I plug in the external drive exactly as the manual says -- repeatedly -- and go to the screen for an external drive, it says that there isn't one. I try it over and over again. The WD support page just says that if it's not recognized, I don't have the correct software installed but according to Tivo, I do.
> 
> Defective drive? Defective Tivo? Or something else I can fix myself?
> 
> Thanks.


Two reports of the same thing in one day. You'd think WD and/or TiVo would get a grip on this. Sheesh!  As Ben_Jamin75 suggests, you're not alone. He is also correct, it is likely a bad eSATA cable.
 
Click here to read my response to the same question on another thread..


----------



## letsgomets

Bingo! Was the cable. I had another one from the esata drive I had used with my SA8300HDC box before I got rid of it for the TivoHD and when I ran the whole bootup process with that cable, it worked.

Thanks a lot!


----------



## richsadams

letsgomets said:


> Bingo! Was the cable. I had another one from the esata drive I had used with my SA8300HDC box before I got rid of it for the TivoHD and when I ran the whole bootup process with that cable, it worked.
> 
> Thanks a lot!


Excellent! Glad it's working now. Seems a shame that you had to go through that with something brand new though. Hopefully WD will get it's act together and start supplying decent cables.


----------



## BrennanU

Just a quick question, does anyone know of any deals on the TiVo verified external drives right now? Also, does anyone but Best Buy, TiVo and Western Digital sell them?

Thanks, Brennan


----------



## drhankz

BrennanU said:


> Just a quick question, does anyone know of any deals on the TiVo verified external drives right now? Also, does anyone but Best Buy, TiVo and Western Digital sell them?
> 
> Thanks, Brennan


I think Best Buy for business has the lowest price of $199.

However I bought the Certified 1TB HD for Internal 
use from New Egg for $319 - that was my choice. 
I'd rather have it in the box than outside.


----------



## richsadams

BrennanU said:


> Just a quick question, does anyone know of any deals on the TiVo verified external drives right now? Also, does anyone but Best Buy, TiVo and Western Digital sell them?
> 
> Thanks, Brennan


BB has an exclusive on the WD My DVR Expander. I couldn't find it at BB Business, only at the normal BB web site for $219:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...ander&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1185271084416

Available at TiVo for $199.99:

http://www.tivo.com/expand

AFAIK WD no longer sells them directly.


----------



## richsadams

According to Spike's post over at MFSLive, the the WD 1TB GP drive retail box which is now shipping contains the OEM version (xxx-*00ZJB0*.), not the "retail" version (xxx-*32ZJB0*) of the HDD.  [URL="http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=367225"] (Click here to see the WD 1TB GP drive thread.)

The same was confirmed by rcliff on this post.

For those not following along, the "Retail" version worked as an upgrade drive for TiVo Series3's as well as TiVo HD's; both internally and as eSATA. The "OEM" version does _not _work as an _internal _upgrade for the TiVo Series3's (hangs at "Welcome, powering up" screen on soft reboot).

*bkdtv*: This might be worth noting in your original post on this thread. Not sure if it should be noted or just changed to "not recommended" now.

I guess my biggest concern for myself and others using this as an internal drive in Series3s is that if the drive fails, the only version available for replacement will probably be the OEM version.


----------



## 1283

I would highly recommend not calling these two versions as "retail" and "OEM", especially now that the -00 version can be found in retail packages.


----------



## bkdtv

Thanks, I will update the first post and remove it from the list of recommended drives.

I don't suppose it is possible to tell the version of the drive in the retail package? Is there something on the label that indicates whether it is a 00ZJB0 or 32ZJB0?

_Edit: I linked to Rich's pictures in the 1TB WD Green SATA hdd 259.00 @ Best Buy thread._


----------



## logicman1

Decided to build my own expander. I found the Seagate 750Gb ST3750840SCE at ComputerHQ for $216.61 with free shipping. Found the Antec MX-1 enclosure at Buy.com for $52.24 also with free shipping. Buy.com also has the _SIIG CB-SA0111-S1 cable_ for $9.24 ($6.79 shipping). So for $284.88 I have 50% more space than the My DVR Expander.


----------



## Burt Spielman

Burt Spielman said:


> Now, since the TiVo won't operate without the external drive, I'll have to divorce the drives (yet again!), and wait until I can procure a replacement eSATA II cable.


OK, back yet again, this time with a SIIG CB-SA0111-S1 eSATA-to-eSATA cable.

I removed 1TB drive from the TiVo, remarried it to the 1TB external drive, put the internal drive back into the TiVo, hooked up the external drive using the new SIIG cable, powered up the external drive then the TiVo and got as far as "External Storage Missing," which, of course, I've seen before.

I have connected the external drive in a number of ways. Initially, I used the new SIIG cable and the eSATA-to-SATA "bracket" that is supplied with the Antec box to connect the bare drive to the TiVo. (I have external power supplies from the long-ago-aborted USB-to-SATA attempts.) No go.

I also disassembled the Antec box, extracting the small rectangular circuit board which has the integrated power/data connector (like the one in the TiVo itself) the drive connects to. In this arrangement, I used the Antec's own power supply and plugged the SIIG cable directly into the Antec receptacle. Still no go.

I have noticed that, using the Antec circuit board, the drive will not spin up if the data cable is connected to it. Only if I power it up, then connect the data cable does it spin up. Even if everything were working properly, this doesn't bode well for any possible power failure, as the drive would not restart automatically with the restoration of power. I'm now wondering if the Antec box is faulty.

By the way, WeaKnees, from whom I purchased the TiVo (with an extended warranty), offers absolutely no assistance here whatsoever, other than to comment that they could have performed this themselves for me and that I have voided their warranty by removing the original 750GB drive from the TiVo. (I didn't mention doing Mfscopy, only Mfsadd, so, as far as they are concerned, the TiVo still has their 750Gb drive in it.) I inquired whether the eSATA port on the TiVo might be faulty, but WeaKnees tech support says that is extremely unlikely.

I've now had the Antec box for a fairly long time while this long, long saga has played itself out. I'm hoping whomever I bought it from (haven't had a chance to look back through my receipts) will exchange it.

Ugh!


----------



## jlib

bkdtv said:


> Thanks, I will update the first post and remove it from the list of recommended drives.


Since it works fine as an external drive and since the FAQ of this thread is about eSATA drive expansions it should still be recommended. The _only_ limitation is use as an internal drive specifically in the S3. The only change in status is that there is no longer any distinction between the "OEM" and the "Retail" versions (save for any new old-stock still on the shelf).


----------



## jlib

Burt Spielman said:


> ...I have connected the external drive in a number of ways. Initially, I used the new SIIG cable and the eSATA-to-SATA "bracket" that is supplied with the Antec box to connect the bare drive to the TiVo. (I have external power supplies from the long-ago-aborted USB-to-SATA attempts.) No go...


Since you have already removed the Antec enclosure from the equation by using the PC bracket "backwards" to connect the bare, powered drive to the TiVO and the problem persists it is safe to say the Antec is _not_ part of the problem.

Are there any jumpers on this drive? Did you ever have connectivity via the eSATA port in your early experiments?


----------



## Burt Spielman

jlib said:


> Since you have already removed the Antec enclosure from the equation by using the PC bracket "backwards" to connect the bare, powered drive to the TiVO and the problem persists it is safe to say the Antec is _not_ part of the problem.
> 
> Are there any jumpers on this drive? Did you ever have connectivity via the eSATA port in your early experiments?


A reasonable assumption regarding the Antec enclosure, although I'm at a loss to explain why the drive does not spin up with the eSATA cable connected to its port on the Antec circuit board.

The Hitachi drive does not have any jumpers present at all. The only connections on it are the SATA power and data connectors and a four-pin legacy power connector. (A warning on the drive states, "Using both the SATA power connector and the Legacy power connector may cause unpredictable results." Needless to say, I'm not using the legacy connector.)

Latest strangeness: After using the TiVo itself to divorce the drives to enable the TiVo to work again, I accidentally powered down the divorced drive while it was still connected. The TiVo immediately began to reboot, but I immediately unplugged it, disconnected the divorced drive and powered the TiVo back up. It rebooted successfully. However, the first time I hit the TiVo button, I got a message saying that the TiVo had discovered an external drive and that I needed to set it up to expand the TiVo's capacity. This was _after_ I had disconnected the external drive and rebooted the TiVo. 

Regarding prior connectivity, at one point I got the GSOD, so, I assume, the TiVo was sensing something via the eSATA port. And, of course, the above anomaly has to be the result of some reaction to the eSATA port.


----------



## 1283

Burt Spielman said:


> I'm at a loss to explain why the drive does not spin up with the eSATA cable connected to its port on the Antec circuit board.


It tries not to power up the drive if the host is not powered up, by detecting the SATA signal level.


----------



## Burt Spielman

c3 said:


> It tries not to power up the drive if the host is not powered up, by detecting the SATA signal level.


OK, but I thought you had to have the external drive powered and spun up before booting the TiVo. Am I missing something here?


----------



## 1283

Burt Spielman said:


> OK, but I thought you had to have the external drive powered and spun up before booting the TiVo. Am I missing something here?


As long as the drive is ready before the TiVo talks to the drive, there is no problem. Also, the drive can communicate with the host before the platters are spun up.


----------



## Burt Spielman

c3 said:


> As long as the drive is ready before the TiVo talks to the drive, there is no problem. Also, the drive can communicate with the host before the platters are spun up.


But this can't be normal behavior. If it were, why would the Antec enclosure be favored because of its hard switched nature; that is, its ability to restart without intervention after a power failure?


----------



## Burt Spielman

Burt Spielman said:


> Regarding prior connectivity, at one point I got the GSOD, so, I assume, the TiVo was sensing something via the eSATA port. And, of course, the above anomaly has to be the result of some reaction to the eSATA port.


Further to the question of eSATA connectivity, I decided to experiment a little further.

I again used Mfsadd to marry the drives, then connected the external drive using the SIIG cable and the Antec eSATA-to-SATA adapter, reasoning that, for now, this was more reliable than using the Antec circuit board (analogous to installing the eternal drive into the Antec enclosure, but much less time consuming, considering all the connecting and disconnecting I've been doing).

Again, the TiVo failed to discover the external drive, so I used the TiVo to divorce the drives, but kept the external drive connected.

When the TiVo rebooted normally, it displayed the TiVo Central screen. When I hit the TiVo button, I got to the Now Playing screen.

When I hit the left arrow, I got a screen entitled, "Important Message." It went on to say that the TiVo had detected an external storage device and invited me to set it up.

When I replied, "Yes," I got a screen entitled, "External Storage," which confirmed that the external device was not set up, stated that doing so would erase all of the existing content on that device, and asked if I was sure I wanted to continue.

When I replied, "Yes," I got a screen entitled, "Unsupported Device," which advised that the device was not authorized and that TiVo could not guarantee its performance. I was asked whether I still wanted to set up the unsupported device.

When I replied, "Yes," I got a "Set Up External Storage" screen, warning me of all the above and stating that the device must be powered up to be used, and that, if I chose later to permanently remove the device, I would lose some or all of my recordings.

After three Thumbs Down and Enter, the TiVo did its thing, then rebooted successfully to the TiVo Central Screen. When I went to the System Information pages, the TiVo reported the recording capacity as 144 HD hours (the same as without the external drive), and the Hitachi drive as connected, complete with the correct model number (HDS721010KLA330), but also with another number (GKAOA70M) that seems unrelated to any number on the external drive's label.

_Mind you, this is all *after* I had divorced the external drive (though it was still connected)._

Intentionally disconnecting the external drive after all of this caused the TiVo to reboot normally without incident.

Now, I'm beginning to wonder if, somehow, I'm not performing the mfsadd correctly.

I have ensured that the two drives are correctly connected-that is, the internal drive is reported as sda and the external as sdb. The command I'm using is:

mfsadd -x -r 4 /dev/sda /dev/sdb

After this, the MFSLive Linux Boot CD reports the number of hours roughly doubled, as I might expect.

Should I have erased the external drive or in any way formatted it before performing the Mfsadd?

I'm really at a loss here, and I'm seeking advice as to how to proceed.


----------



## 1283

Burt Spielman said:


> But this can't be normal behavior. If it were, why would the Antec enclosure be favored because of its hard switched nature; that is, its ability to restart without intervention after a power failure?


It does restart without intervention. Unless you send a sleep/shutdown command (such as shutting down Windows), it does not power down by itself. For TiVo application, there is no shutdown command, so the drive stays powered up.


----------



## Burt Spielman

Burt Spielman said:


> Now, I'm beginning to wonder if, somehow, I'm not performing the mfsadd correctly.
> 
> I have ensured that the two drives are correctly connected-that is, the internal drive is reported as sda and the external as sdb. The command I'm using is:
> 
> mfsadd -x -r 4 /dev/sda /dev/sdb
> 
> After this, the MFSLive Linux Boot CD reports the number of hours roughly doubled, as I might expect.


Mea culpa! Mea maxima culpa!

I misread the MFSLive instructions regarding the Mfsadd command. All along, I was using the command for a TiVo HD, when, of course, I should have been using the command for the TiVo Series 3:

mfsadd -ex -r 4 /dev/sda /dev/sdb

Might I suggest to Spike that he add the Series 3 model number (TCD648250B) to page 5 of his otherwise extremely helpful MFSLive Upgrade Guide?

After I used the correct Mfsadd command, the TiVo booted up uneventfully (no TiVo external drive setup screens as previously reported), now with 292 HD and 2777 SD hours reported. And the Antec circuit board connection spins up the external drive when the TiVo powers up, just as c3 suggested. Now, I'll, once and for all, permanently install the external drive into the Antec enclosure.

And to answer richsadams' question about what to do with all the extra storage capacity, I'll be archiving HD movies, concerts and Metropolitan Opera broadcasts in preparation for the day when the Mac or PC hardware and rendering software will enable me to burn Blu-Ray disks.

So, my saga ends, finally successful, after my, frankly, stupid error.  Thanks to all who have offered helpful responses.

I hope my experiences will help future upgraders:

1) Avoid USB-to-SATA adapters for large data transfers. They are much too slow. Use a PCI SATA controller card instead.

2) When using WinMFS Mfscopy (to preserve your recordings) while copying the contents of your original upgraded internal drive to a new, larger internal drive, select the original drive as "A," but do not select the new drive as "B" (contrary to the FAQ); otherwise, when you designate the original drive as "Source Drive A," you will not be able to designate the new drive as "Destination Drive A." You'll get only "None" as your choice to designate a destination drive for the Mfscopy.

3) Avoid Seagate 7200.11 1TB hard drives. They are noisy and don't offer acoustic management. (Seagate's recently announced DB35 1TB drives should be OK, if their 750GB DB35 drive is any indicator.)

4) If you are marrying a new external drive to an already expanded internal drive, WinMFS (in its current incarnation) will not work. You'll get an Error 26. Instead, download the MFSLive Linux Boot CD image, burn a CD and use it to marry the drives.

5) Ensure that you are using the correct Mfsadd command (these have appeared in the FAQ, III,10,3, but not III,11,8):

For TiVo Series 3 (TCD648250B): mfsadd -ex -r 4 /dev/sda /dev/sdb
For TiVo HD (TCD652160): mfsadd -x -r 4 /dev/sda /dev/sdb

To quote Marv Albert in his old New York Knick announcing days (when the Knicks were worth watching), "Yes!"


----------



## jlib

Burt Spielman said:


> I hope my experiences will help future upgraders...


And it is very valuable that you thoroughly documented your efforts. There is now a historical record of what to do (or what not to do). 

Take comfort in the fact that success is always sweeter when preceded by a high coefficient of adversity. Congratulations!


----------



## bkdtv

Burt Spielman said:


> I misread the MFSLive instructions regarding the Mfsadd command. All along, I was using the command for a TiVo HD, when, of course, I should have been using the command for the TiVo Series 3:
> 
> mfsadd -ex -r 4 /dev/sda /dev/sdb


Weren't those commands in the first post here for the last few months?



Burt Spielman said:


> 3) If you are marrying a new external drive to an already expanded internal drive, WinMFS (in its current incarnation) will not work. You'll get an Error 26. Instead, download the MFSLive Linux Boot CD image, burn a CD and use it to marry the drives.
> 
> 4) Ensure that you are using the correct Mfsadd command:
> 
> For TiVo Series 3 (TCD648250B): mfsadd -ex -r 4 /dev/sda /dev/sdb
> For TiVo HD (TCD652160): mfsadd -x -r 4 /dev/sda /dev/sdb
> 
> To quote Marv Albert in his old New York Knick announcing days (when the Knicks were worth watching), "Yes!"


Great to see that you finally got it working.

I see you sent me a PM so I'll try to update the first post to reflect that.


----------



## bkdtv

For those looking to buy the Western Digital My DVR Expander:

Best Buy 12% Off Coupon -- January 16-21


----------



## Burt Spielman

bkdtv said:


> Weren't those commands in the first post here for the last few months?
> 
> Great to see that you finally got it working.


Thanks, bk. Yes, after posting about my "success," I noted that the correct Mfsadd commands are indeed in your FAQ.

However, they're in paragraph III,10,3, part of "What is the method to add an eSATA drive if I have a TiVoHD or I previously upgraded my TiVo?" I was regularly referring to paragraph III,11,8, part of "How do I upgrade my TiVo's built-in drive and add an eSATA drive?" This latter section was more applicable to my situation.

I don't mean for a minute to denigrate your heroic effort in pulling all of this stuff together coherently in one place.

But I do think that users like me who are performing the "upgrade an already upgraded internal drive and add a new external drive" might benefit from a bit of a clearer step-by-step explanation. I, for one, never noticed the Mfsadd steps in III,10 because I quickly looked past it as not applicable to me. I respectfully suggest that they be repeated in III,11. Also, some clarification of the fact that the current WinMFS will not work to marry drives in this specific situation (and directions that the Boot CD is absolutely necessary here) would be helpful.

In fact, one item I omitted in my last lengthy post (and which I will add as an edit) has to do with how you configure the original internal drive and the new internal drive before attempting an Mfscopy to preserve your recordings. As I've noted, in WinMFS, you cannot select the new internal drive as B (according to the FAQ instructions); if you do, you cannot select any destination drive at all. This area of potential confusion (which I overcame by sheer perseverance, trying every possible selection in the WinMFS Mfscopy window) could be clarified.

Again, please take my comments as constructive. I really do appreciate your efforts here. :up:


----------



## e30cabrio

Joined the 500GB MY DVR Expander club on my S3 & now have up to 98 hours HD & up to 927 SD> cool simple easy setup.


----------



## richsadams

e30cabrio said:


> Joined the 500GB MY DVR Expander club on my S3 & now have up to 98 hours HD & up to 927 SD> cool simple easy setup.


Congrats and enjoy! :up:


----------



## e30cabrio

Thanks.

Is there a way to get TiVo playlist to see the Expander? It only sees the 206.4 gb internal drive.


----------



## richsadams

e30cabrio said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Is there a way to get TiVo playlist to see the Expander? It only sees the 206.4 gb internal drive.


If your expansion drive is listed on your System Info screen and the additional hours are correct, TiVo recognizes it.

It will not appear on your Now Playing list (if that's what you meant) as TiVo treats both drives as a single, larger drive so AFAIK there isn't a way for it to "see" it separately.


----------



## e30cabrio

I'm talking about the little program, that lets you see the drive usage. It has always gone up. It started at 17x.x when I first got the TiVo and is now here:









Thanks


----------



## bkdtv

e30cabrio said:


> I'm talking about the little program, that lets you see the drive usage. It has always gone up. It started at 17x.x when I first got the TiVo and is now here:


The TiVoPlayList utility does not know how much space you have. It only knows how much space you have used, which will always be equal or less to what you have set under "Total Disk Space" at the top. You need to set your "Total Disk Space" at the top to 750.


----------



## e30cabrio

Thanks!

So simple, I had no clue I could change that!


----------



## richsadams

e30cabrio said:


> I'm talking about the little program, that lets you see the drive usage. It has always gone up. It started at 17x.x when I first got the TiVo and is now here:
> Thanks


Oh, okay, got it. As bkdtv says, just update the disk space. :up:

Whoops...you beat me to it!


----------



## mcmoore

I received my replacement DVR Expander and eSata cable from Western Digital. This one works fine. yeah. Everything froze after going thru the whole process. I just unplugged the Tivo and plugged back in. After the boot, the new drive was there and so far all is well and I have lots of hours of HD storage. Finally.


----------



## Fresno

In December I purchased the Series 3 HD Tivo. per the amazing detials offered by bkdtv...I purchased the following: Hitachi Cinemastar 1000Gb HCS721010KLA330 and the Antec MX-1 enclosure: In about 20 minutes I was at full capacity with my Tivo Series 3. The Hitachi Cinemaster 1TB drive ($350 after tax and shipping) coupled with the Antec MX-1 (about $56 on amazon and comes with a rebate)---is whisper quiet AND there is NO heat at all. ZERO. It's amazing. Would HIGHLY recommend this configuration if you want no noise, no heat and LOTS of external storage. Thank you bkdtv...your detailed post rocks!!!


----------



## saz25

Hi,
Yesterday I purchased My DVR Expander at BestBuy. The install went almost flawless, except for one issue.

When I powered on the TivoHD after connecting the Expander and following the on-screen instructions, when it was done, I had lost my Cablecard connection. I needed to call Comcast to have them send a signal to the cablecard in order for me to receive channels. All is fine now.

The Cablecard had been working fine for about 2 months. This is first time I powered down the unit.

Will I always run into this issue when I power cycle or did the installation of external storage mess up the cablecard setup?

Has anyone else seen this?
Thanks,
Steve


----------



## Burt Spielman

saz25 said:


> Will I always run into this issue when I power cycle or did the installation of external storage mess up the cablecard setup?
> 
> Has anyone else seen this?


Not quite the same circumstances, but similar.

I just upgraded my Series 3 (a long process for me, reported earlier, at length, in this thread). After powering the TiVo back up, I noted that I had lost HD channels in the Morris County, NJ, Cablevision system. Not the cable-fed OTA channels (in the New York area, 2 through 13, carried as 702 though 713), but the remainder of CV's HD offerings. CV advised that they would send a "hit" to my CableCards, and that I should reboot the TiVo.

That solved the problem.

As for future power cycles, I can't say. But I can say that the TiVo and the new external drive (a Hitachi 1TB bare drive in an Antec MX-1 enclosure) are both powered through a Tripp-Lite USB device. Thus they're not likely to power down unless an external power failure is several hours in length.


----------



## e30cabrio

The DVR EXPANDER was in my line of sight and the light is annoying so I moved it and the TiVo rebooted. 

When it came back on it said the external storage was missing. I checked the connection and it was firmly connected but I R&R'd both the eSATA & power and it is fine. Is there a problem with the eSATA cable or is this normal?


----------



## saz25

> Is there a problem with the eSATA cable or is this normal? 

I noticed immediately that the eSATA cable seats VERY well into the Expander, but isn't quite as tight into the TivoHD. I tried to push it in as best I can and its definitely not a good/tight fit. Is that how its supposed to be or did Tivo choose a cheap connector?

Thanks,
Steve


----------



## msrolla

The cable that came with my WD DVR Expander seemed to work ok. Connections were tight. No problem with recording and playing back TV shows.

However... Some Amazon Unbox content downloaded to the DVR was pixelated. Repeated the download and still pixelated. Downloaded to another DVR and it looked ok. I replaced the cable with the SIIG cable, repeated the download and it was ok.

YMMV and it may have been circumstantial, but it sure looks like it was a cable problem.


----------



## richsadams

Based on numerous posts over the past few months, the eSATA cables supplied with the WD My DVR Expander appear to be problematic. If you're having issues it's best to simply replace the supplied cable with one recommended on the first post of this thread such as the SIIG Inc eSATA to eSATA Cable. $10 or so is very cheap insurance against reboots, lost programs, etc.

Perhaps WD will get its act together one of these days.


----------



## slerner

Today, my second day with the expander hooked up, Tivo alerted me that it had been removed. I hadn't removed it at all. After disconnecting everything and repowering I finally got it to recognize the external drive again.

Unfortunately all content on the external drive was lost. To my knowledge none of the cables were moved. Any ideas why this happened? I'm very paranoid now about losing all of my content. Is there a way to get the Tivo to find it that might have spared the content?

I'm using an eSata cable I bought at myCableMart.com b/c I needed more then the 3 ft WD so generoursly included.


----------



## 1283

I would highly recommend staying with a 1m/3ft cable if at all possible. Longer cable usually causes more problems because of signal degradation.


----------



## e30cabrio

I am using the cable the drive came with, I had no idea it was a problem, glad I asked. will order a new cable. 

Thanks!


----------



## slerner

c3 said:


> I would highly recommend staying with a 1m/3ft cable if at all possible. Longer cable usually causes more problems because of signal degradation.


Thanks for the tip. I went to watch my HD Tivo again and it was giving me the same message. This time rather then listening to the on-screen message I simply pulled the plug on the Tivo.

I switched back to the original eSata cable. I also moved the expander to a location where the cable should have much less stress on it. Unfortunately that means it is much closer to my Tivo inside an entertainment unit, so there's much more heat now .

I think one of my problems is upon closer inspection my 6 ft. cable was a type I and not a type II. Can someone recommend a good deal on a type II cable. It seems that the WD ones have been causing some issues. I'd like to have a backup to be safe.


----------



## richsadams

slerner said:


> Can someone recommend a good deal on a type II cable. It seems that the WD ones have been causing some issues. I'd like to have a backup to be safe.


My post above has a link to one of the recommended eSATA cables. The first post on this thread has others (see #26).


----------



## ThAbtO

I just added the expander yesterday with no problems, and the drive box is sitting happily behind my tv, out of sight and lots of space for the heat to leave.


----------



## e30cabrio

richsadams said:


> My post above has a link to one of the recommended eSATA cables. The first post on this thread has others (see #26).


I ordered the above referenced cable for 13.98 delivered. Thanks for the referral


----------



## richsadams

e30cabrio said:


> I ordered the above referenced cable for 13.98 delivered. Thanks for the referral


Glad to help...but it's sad that you or anyone has to order a cable because WD can't supply a decent one with their drives.


----------



## titsataki

Have you guys noticed a couple Seagate drives on New Egg:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...0014+50001305+103530090&name=800GB+and+higher

The second one is 1Tb for 274.99 shipped.

Cheers

Nick


----------



## Burt Spielman

titsataki said:


> Have you guys noticed a couple Seagate drives on New Egg:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...0014+50001305+103530090&name=800GB+and+higher
> 
> The second one is 1Tb for 274.99 shipped.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Nick


I had an unsuccessful experience with a pair of Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST31000340AS 1TB drives. Very noisy and, perhaps malfunctioning. I was able to return them to Newegg, after having had them for more than a month, for a (surprising) full refund (less shipping, of course). Elsewhere, I bought Hitachi Deskstars instead (@ 2 for $538.25 shipped), which are working well. Seagate has announced a DB35 version of its 1TB drive (same as the 750GB drive I replaced); suggest you wait for it or go to a different brand for now. See post 677, et seq, in this thread.


----------



## titsataki

Burt Spielman said:


> I had an unsuccessful experience with a pair of Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST31000340AS 1TB drives. Very noisy and, perhaps malfunctioning. I was able to return them to Newegg, after having had them for more than a month, for a (surprising) full refund (less shipping, of course). Elsewhere, I bought Hitachi Deskstars instead (@ 2 for $538.25 shipped), which are working well. Seagate has announced a DB35 version of its 1TB drive (same as the 750GB drive I replaced); suggest you wait for it or go to a different brand for now. See post 677, et seq, in this thread.


Thanks for the input. Wow 1Tb Hitachi Deskstar at ~$270 each shipped is an excellent price.

Regards

Nick


----------



## Burt Spielman

titsataki said:


> Thanks for the input. Wow 1Tb Hitachi Deskstar at ~$270 each shipped is an excellent price.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Nick


I thought so, too, especially considering all of the difficulties I encountered in what should have been a relatively straightforward upgrade process. Alas, when I just looked at the website of the vendor I bought from (www.isquaredinc.com), the Hitachi drives no longer appear. They were very communicative when I had some questions about Hitachi model numbers. If you're interested, you might call them at 801-733-4332. The hard drive market is very volatile, though, and they might never carry them again.


----------



## 1283

titsataki said:


> Thanks for the input. Wow 1Tb Hitachi Deskstar at ~$270 each shipped is an excellent price.


Since you have TiVoHD, the WD10EACS is cheaper, quieter, and cooler.


----------



## jlib

c3 said:


> I would highly recommend staying with a 1m/3ft cable if at all possible. Longer cable usually causes more problems because of signal degradation.


I even have doubts that the eSATA connection on the HD is a true eSATA connection electrically. On the motherboard it looks just like the internal SATA connection. The signals are generally compatible but eSATA is slightly hotter hence the longer length spec.

SATA=1 meter max length
eSATA=2 meter max length


----------



## 1283

jlib said:


> I even have doubts that the eSATA connection on the HD is a true eSATA connection electrically.


I'm not sure about the dates, but the eSATA spec and/or draft might not even be available when the Broadcom chip was designed.


----------



## e30cabrio

richsadams said:


> Glad to help...but it's sad that you or anyone has to order a cable because WD can't supply a decent one with their drives.


Agreed but <14.00 is cheap insurance to protect the TiVo. Reboots followed by loss of external storage it is looking for can't be good for it.


----------



## slerner

richsadams said:


> My post above has a link to one of the recommended eSATA cables. The first post on this thread has others (see #26).


Thanks Rich! Since going back to the WD included cable and relocating my Expander things have been running well. I may buy the cable just to have an extra one on hand in an emergency.

I read on the first post that you can lay the expander down. Anyone try this? I wasn't sure if it would run ok since there are no pictures of it laying down on its side. It would fit much better in my entertainment unit on its side, but I don't want to go this route if it is problematic.


----------



## richsadams

slerner said:


> Thanks Rich! Since going back to the WD included cable and relocating my Expander things have been running well. I may buy the cable just to have an extra one on hand in an emergency.
> 
> I read on the first post that you can lay the expander down. Anyone try this? I wasn't sure if it would run ok since there are no pictures of it laying down on its side. It would fit much better in my entertainment unit on its side, but I don't want to go this route if it is problematic.


No worries. Glad to hear that you got the original cable to work. I removed our eSATA drive when I upgraded the internal drive but I always had one of the recommended cables in a drawer JIC.

You can safely place the external drive in any position you want...it won't affect the performance other than it won't be able to dissipate as much heat if it's laying on its side. If it's ventilated well it shouldn't be a problem. More contact with the surface may increase the noise level a bit. Some have put something like a mouse pad underneath to insulate it from whatever it's sitting on. Just make sure it stays cool...and more importantly, that those connections are secure!


----------



## ChrisNJ

Hi all,

I am currently running my Tivo S3 with a 500GB Cavalry drive and haven't had any problems with it other than a noisy fan. I was wondering if I could take the drive out of the Cavalry enclosure and put it into an Antec MX-1 which seems to be the enclosure of choice here. Will I be able to do that without losing any recordings or will the Tivo detect a different enclosure and reinitialize the drive?

I also wanted to find out if there is a procedure to copy the data from one external drive to another external drive while preserving the recordings. i.e. if I wanted to migrate to a larger 750 GB drive with the Antec enclosure.

Thanks for any help!

Chris


----------



## richsadams

ChrisNJ said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am currently running my Tivo S3 with a 500GB Cavalry drive and haven't had any problems with it other than a noisy fan. I was wondering if I could take the drive out of the Cavalry enclosure and put it into an Antec MX-1 which seems to be the enclosure of choice here. Will I be able to do that without losing any recordings or will the Tivo detect a different enclosure and reinitialize the drive?
> 
> I also wanted to find out if there is a procedure to copy the data from one external drive to another external drive while preserving the recordings. i.e. if I wanted to migrate to a larger 750 GB drive with the Antec enclosure.
> 
> Thanks for any help!
> 
> Chris


You can switch your external hard drive to a new enclosure w/o any problems. TiVo recognizes the drive model, not the enclosure. Our MX-1 was very quiet BTW. I noticed that Circuit City has the Antec MX-1 on sale for $39.99 this week. :up:

Be sure to follow the proper steps for shutting things down:

1. Unplug TiVo
2. Unplug and disconnect your eSATA drive
3. Reconnect your "new" eSATA drive to TiVo and turn it on
4. Plug TiVo in

As long as you follow those steps, TiVo will never know your drive went missing.

At this time there is no method for copying recordings from one external drive to another. To change expansion drives they must be properly divorced from TiVo (or other problems arise). Every time a new drive is connected to TiVo it reformats it and all content is lost. (That won't be the case with switching drive enclosures as you'd like to do however as the drive itself will be the same.) Spike at MFSLive.org has been working on this, but nothing to date.


----------



## ChrisNJ

Rich,

Thanks for the info and the Circuit City tip, I'll pick one up tonight and give it a shot.

Chris

Edit: Just found the Antec MX-1 on Amazon.com for $28.49 after mail in rebate. :up:


----------



## e30cabrio

Got the cable, (superfast!) put TiVo in standby, disconnected power, disconnected old cable, moved drive to best location out of the way & away from other heat generating devices/getting it away from other devices connected the cable, connected power, made sure firm connection, powered up TiVo, took TiVo out of standby, BOOTED TO EXTERNAL STORAGE DEVICE MISSING!!!

Unplugged TiVo, r&r'd cable, r&r'd power, booted TiVo, all well. Whats up with that? Maybe it is not WD's cable?

I made darn sure the cable is completely out of the way of anything else so movement of other devices/cables won't cause issues.


----------



## richsadams

e30cabrio said:


> Got the cable, (superfast!) put TiVo in standby, disconnected power, disconnected old cable, moved drive to best location out of the way & away from other heat generating devices/getting it away from other devices connected the cable, connected power, made sure firm connection, powered up TiVo, took TiVo out of standby, BOOTED TO EXTERNAL STORAGE DEVICE MISSING!!!
> 
> Unplugged TiVo, r&r'd cable, r&r'd power, booted TiVo, all well. Whats up with that? Maybe it is not WD's cable?
> 
> I made darn sure the cable is completely out of the way of anything else so movement of other devices/cables won't cause issues.


You can't put TiVo in standby mode when connecting expansion drives...it has to be unplugged.

Excellent to hear all is well now. :up: Still frustrating that the WD cables are inferior for the price they are charging.


----------



## e30cabrio

I put it in standby & then unplugged it. It's fine now and I really appreciate all the help I have gotten. Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

e30cabrio said:


> I put it in standby & then unplugged it. It's fine now and I really appreciate all the help I have gotten. Thanks!


Ah...I don't think anyone's tried that before. In any case for future reference (and for anyone else keeping tabs) just unplugging it is all that's needed.

Enjoy all of that new real estate! :up:


----------



## dolfer

Just hooked up the My DVR Expander and everything went great! No problems whatsoever... 

However, I really hope this thing is reliable because it seems like one false move and you've lost all of your currently recorded programs! 

Does anyone have any bad experiences with power outages or accidental removal of the device erasing all of your programs? I am kind of scared. Should I be? Or am I just overreacting? 

P.S. A big BOOOOO to Best Buy for charging 10% over the MSRP! $219??? C'mon! Luckily, I had a 12% off coupon...


----------



## e30cabrio

I figured could not hurt to put it in standby. Hopefully I'll never have to deal with it again.

I have the Expander, TiVo & TV on my APC backup.


----------



## richsadams

dolfer said:


> Just hooked up the My DVR Expander and everything went great! No problems whatsoever...
> 
> However, I really hope this thing is reliable because it seems like one false move and you've lost all of your currently recorded programs!
> 
> Does anyone have any bad experiences with power outages or accidental removal of the device erasing all of your programs? I am kind of scared. Should I be? Or am I just overreacting?
> 
> P.S. A big BOOOOO to Best Buy for charging 10% over the MSRP! $219??? C'mon! Luckily, I had a 12% off coupon...


If you're like me and these things will always be in the back of your mind, I'd order a replacement eSATA cable JIC. That seems to be the issue every time. The SIIG Serial ATA external cable is recommended. Others can be found on the first post on this thread. (See #26)

None of your recordings should ever be lost as long as you don't divorce the drive from TiVo. If you follow the power down/up steps you can easily reattach or replace the eSATA cable without any worries.

As *e30cabrio *mentions, a good UPS is essential IMO if you want to avoid data corruption/loss of recordings with TiVo and your new eSATA drive. :up: We have all of our TiVo's connected to this one and they have worked flawlessly. (If you want to connect your TV, just be sure the wattage/capacity will allow it...might need one with a higher capacity.)


----------



## e30cabrio

Mine is on a 730 which looks like the one you linked just a bit bigger.

Is it safe to assume unknown quality is HD? It's taking up most of the space was my first clue.


----------



## ilh

Unknown quality is most likely digital content, which could be HD or SD.


----------



## dolfer

richsadams said:


> If you're like me and these things will always be in the back of your mind, I'd order a replacement eSATA cable JIC. That seems to be the issue every time. The SIIG Serial ATA external cable is recommended. Others can be found on the first post on this thread. (See #26)
> 
> None of your recordings should ever be lost as long as you don't divorce the drive from TiVo. If you follow the power down/up steps you can easily reattach or replace the eSATA cable without any worries.
> 
> As *e30cabrio *mentions, a good UPS is essential IMO if you want to avoid data corruption/loss of recordings with TiVo and your new eSATA drive. :up: We have all of our TiVo's connected to this one and they have worked flawlessly. (If you want to connect your TV, just be sure the wattage/capacity will allow it...might need one with a higher capacity.)


Rich, thanks for all of the great info!

One question... Does your UPS beep incessantly while the power is off??? I used to have one but whenever the power went off it beeped (like an alarm) at an annoyingly high volume. There was no way disable it. Great in the middle of the night!


----------



## ThAbtO

dolfer said:


> P.S. A big BOOOOO to Best Buy for charging 10% over the MSRP! $219??? C'mon! Luckily, I had a 12% off coupon...


My 10% coupon made my expander less than the MSRP! at $195


----------



## e30cabrio

APCs beep to alert you that action is necessary. It gives you a chance to turn your devices off.


----------



## jlib

dolfer said:


> Rich, thanks for all of the great info!
> 
> One question... Does your UPS beep incessantly while the power is off??? I used to have one but whenever the power went off it beeped (like an alarm) at an annoyingly high volume. There was no way disable it. Great in the middle of the night!


You can do what I do and open the case and stab the piezo buzzer with an ice pick to put it out of its misery permanently.  Or, more sensibly, put a glob of silicon seal over its output hole which should attenuate it to faintness. You don't really need to know when the power is out with respect to the TiVO because what you are really protecting against are the momentary blips and surges that reek havoc with electronic gear, especially computers. If you have an hour long power outage the UPS will probably bail by then anyway but you have some protection from surges in the meantime and when it does finally go down it is a clean off to the TiVo as if pulling its plug.


----------



## richsadams

jlib said:


> You can do what I do and open the case and stab the piezo buzzer with an ice pick to put it out of its misery permanently.


 



dolfer said:


> Rich, thanks for all of the great info!
> 
> One question... Does your UPS beep incessantly while the power is off??? I used to have one but whenever the power went off it beeped (like an alarm) at an annoyingly high volume. There was no way disable it. Great in the middle of the night!


Ours beeps/chirps periodically if the power fails. You can turn the unit itself off to stop it. The UPS's on our computers allow me to disable the alarm at all times through the APC "PowerChute" program so we can sleep peacefully. (But of course that wouldn't apply to any that TiVo is connected to.)

I have my TV plugged into the surge protection side, but no need for battery backup.


----------



## lrhorer

jlib said:


> You can do what I do and open the case and stab the piezo buzzer with an ice pick to put it out of its misery permanently.


Dude, 'you want to bring that thing my way? I have neighbor whose car alarm keeps going off.


----------



## lrhorer

e30cabrio said:


>


What utility is this?


----------



## ThAbtO

Its right up in that top corner, TiVoPlayList. I use it also now because it loads faster.


----------



## e30cabrio

You can get it there.

http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/c/dcahoe/tivo/index.htm


----------



## msu-dawg

Aiken said:


> It should be interesting to see if anyone else with a TiVo-blessed expander reports similar symptoms. For everyone's sake, I suppose I hope no one does, but if it really is a software issue, I hope enough of us report it for it to get attention. It has to be people reporting the TiVo-blessed expander, though, since third-party drives like that of the poster I responded to aren't officially supported and so probably won't be a high debugging priority.


Not sure the cause but I experienced the same symptoms with my WD DVR Expander and THD.


----------



## LHMPDX

My MX-1, with a Seagate DB35 500, worked fine for about 9 months. A few days ago it slowly started getting louder and louder, until the noise was interfering with watching TV. I couldn't figure out what was wrong with it, so I got a new one, put the same drive into it, and it now works fine. YMMV.


----------



## workingstiff

Ok I believed the saleskid, or went on the trip before reading the map. DUMB! SO I have a new series 3, as soon as the cable guy comes out I will be turning on the service. But my problem is the drives. I bought the stripped down 20 hour machine and got sold a 500G external harddrive (FreeAgent Pro). Once I plugged it in, I discovered It did not register. I read so many options and I'm not sure which to go with. Especially when it comes to getting hold of a SATA computer. I am open to suggestions, my goal was to add on to the storage already available. I am prepared to work with the drives. I used a kit from weaknees and upgraded one of my old Series 2. I am not clear on do I need to marry my drives or what. I also do not have the hard drive optiion on my settings screen. As I said I have yet to turn on the machine untill the cable guy gets here with the cards.
I would really like help in direction on what to do with an un verified drive ( I really read all that).

Thanks


----------



## bkdtv

workingstiff said:


> I am not clear on do I need to marry my drives or what. I also do not have the hard drive optiion on my settings screen. As I said I have yet to turn on the machine untill the cable guy gets here with the cards.
> I would really like help in direction on what to do with an un verified drive ( I really read all that).


Be sure to read the FAQ in the first post of this thread.

If you got the 20-hour TivoHD, the 500Gb Western Digital My DVR Expander is the only drive that will work with the plug-and-play eSATA expansion feature. This plug-and-play eSATA support was added with software 9.2, so if you just bought your TiVo, you may not have that software yet; your TiVO should download the latest software within a week or so.

If you want to upgrade the internal drive in your TivoHD, see Section III, FAQ #30 in the first post. If you want to add something other than the My DVR Expander to your TivoHD, then you'll need to follow the instructions in Section III, FAQ #10 of the first post.


----------



## dolfer

Is a UPS *mandatory* for using the My DVR Expander? 

The reason that I ask is that I had a brief power outage last night. My Tivo rebooted as usual but it froze up at the point where the lights and output resolution show up on the front panel. I was terrified! 

I unplugged the Tivo, unplugged My DVR, waited, plugged in My DVR, waited, plugged in my Tivo, and then everything booted up ok. 

Will a power outage *always* freeze your Tivo? Meaning I have to go and buy a UPS for this to work properly? 

Rich gave me this info earlier in the week. I guess I should have ran out and bought his recommended model right away!  

"As e30cabrio mentions, a good UPS is essential IMO if you want to avoid data corruption/loss of recordings with TiVo and your new eSATA drive. We have all of our TiVo's connected to this one and they have worked flawlessly. (If you want to connect your TV, just be sure the wattage/capacity will allow it...might need one with a higher capacity.)"


----------



## drhankz

dolfer said:


> Will a power outage *always* freeze your Tivo? Meaning I have to go and buy a UPS for this to work properly?


I have 6 DVRs - some TiVo and Some SONY.

All are on UPS.

IT SHOULD NOT BE NECESSARY - but then it lets you
sleep at night


----------



## richsadams

dolfer said:


> Is a UPS *mandatory* for using the My DVR Expander?
> 
> The reason that I ask is that I had a brief power outage last night. My Tivo rebooted as usual but it froze up at the point where the lights and output resolution show up on the front panel. I was terrified!
> 
> I unplugged the Tivo, unplugged My DVR, waited, plugged in My DVR, waited, plugged in my Tivo, and then everything booted up ok.
> 
> Will a power outage *always* freeze your Tivo? Meaning I have to go and buy a UPS for this to work properly?
> 
> Rich gave me this info earlier in the week. I guess I should have ran out and bought his recommended model right away!
> 
> "As e30cabrio mentions, a good UPS is essential IMO if you want to avoid data corruption/loss of recordings with TiVo and your new eSATA drive. We have all of our TiVo's connected to this one and they have worked flawlessly. (If you want to connect your TV, just be sure the wattage/capacity will allow it...might need one with a higher capacity.)"


Mandatory? I don't think the TiVo Police will be at your door if you don't use a UPS.  However the reboot cycle depends on the eSATA drive having power before TiVo has power. If that gets out of sync TiVo won't recognize it and won't do anything (recording, etc.) until you acknowledge that you want to divorce the drive or not...or it just won't boot up properly as you saw.

So my recommendation would be to have a UPS. Depending on the battery size it's not a guarantee that the power will be restored properly if the outage is longer than the battery life. But for the typical short power outages, surges/spikes, etc. it should take care of things.

If you have a CompUSA nearby they might have some left at a discount since they're going out of business. Otherwise you should be able to find a good deal. I have used APC UPS devices for years and can highly recommend them. :up:


----------



## jon96cobra

LHMPDX said:


> My MX-1, with a Seagate DB35 500, worked fine for about 9 months. A few days ago it slowly started getting louder and louder, until the noise was interfering with watching TV. I couldn't figure out what was wrong with it, so I got a new one, put the same drive into it, and it now works fine. YMMV.


When you replaced the drive did you notice anything wrong with the case or the fan. Mine is doing the same thing. I was going to see if Antec will do anything under warranty.


----------



## dpfels

Hi,
I certainly get what I deserve for not reading carefully. I just purchased a Seagate DB35 750Gbyt drive and an Icy enclosure, thinking I would make myself a cost-effective plug and play expansion solution for my TivoHD. Of course, nothing happens when the drive is connected to the Tivo.
Before I go to the trouble, am I correct in understanding that the only way to get a non WD eSATA to marry to the TivoHD automatically. 
From what I gather, I now have to go back to the patched version described in the FAQ.
Is that correct?
Thanks,
Dan


----------



## dolfer

richsadams said:


> Mandatory? I don't think the TiVo Police will be at your door if you don't use a UPS.  However the reboot cycle depends on the eSATA drive having power before TiVo has power. If that gets out of sync TiVo won't recognize it and won't do anything (recording, etc.) until you acknowledge that you want to divorce the drive or not...or it just won't boot up properly as you saw.
> 
> So my recommendation would be to have a UPS. Depending on the battery size it's not a guarantee that the power will be restored properly if the outage is longer than the battery life. But for the typical short power outages, surges/spikes, etc. it should take care of things.
> 
> If you have a CompUSA nearby they might have some left at a discount since they're going out of business. Otherwise you should be able to find a good deal. I have used APC UPS devices for years and can highly recommend them. :up:


Thanks Rich... It definitely looks like a UPS is in my immediate future! I'll double check tonight, but I don't think that there is any mention of using a UPS in the My DVR Expander manual. Nor is there a warning about what might happen if you don't have one. If the info is not there, they definitely should add it!


----------



## richsadams

dpfels said:


> Hi,
> I certainly get what I deserve for not reading carefully. I just purchased a Seagate DB35 750Gbyt drive and an Icy enclosure, thinking I would make myself a cost-effective plug and play expansion solution for my TivoHD. Of course, nothing happens when the drive is connected to the Tivo.
> Before I go to the trouble, am I correct in understanding that the only way to get a non WD eSATA to marry to the TivoHD automatically.
> From what I gather, I now have to go back to the patched version described in the FAQ.
> Is that correct?
> Thanks,
> Dan


You are correct sir. The only way to get anything but the approved WD My DVR Expander to work with your THD is to pull the hard drive and use WinMFS or a Linux boot disk to marry them up. More often than not it's more practical to just upgrade the internal drive and save the old one as a backup. It's quite easy to do if you don't mind removing the TiVo drive and connecting it to a PC. If you follow the WinMFS instructions it's a very painless way to get more disk space...takes more time to R&R the drives than running the actual program. :up:


----------



## richsadams

dolfer said:


> Thanks Rich... It definitely looks like a UPS is in my immediate future! I'll double check tonight, but I don't think that there is any mention of using a UPS in the My DVR Expander manual. Nor is there a warning about what might happen if you don't have one. If the info is not there, they definitely should add it!


Agreed. A UPS would probably save a number of support calls to TiVo and/or WD. Seems a couple of sentences about that would be in order.


----------



## ChrisNJ

My Cavalry drive is now in the MX-1 enclosure and there were no issues when switching. It's much quieter than the Cavalry enclosure, so far so good...


----------



## richsadams

ChrisNJ said:


> My Cavalry drive is now in the MX-1 enclosure and there were no issues when switching. It's much quieter than the Cavalry enclosure, so far so good...


Good move (both figuratively and literally). Glad to hear things are working well. :up:


----------



## randyelder

I am confused. I have read and read these forums and I get that the only esata drive that works is the DVR expander, but then I read a lot of people using other drives. I have tried a seagate 500gb and also a WD 750gb drive in the Antec case and all I get when I hook it up is that this device may not be set up. And when it asks me if I want to set up the drive, I say yes and it just says the same thing, this device may not be set up. Am I missing something. Do I need to do something to get them to work.


----------



## dwit

randyelder said:


> I am confused. I have read and read these forums and I get that the only esata drive that works is the DVR expander, but then I read a lot of people using other drives. I have tried a seagate 500gb and also a WD 750gb drive in the Antec case and all I get when I hook it up is that this device may not be set up. And when it asks me if I want to set up the drive, I say yes and it just says the same thing, this device may not be set up. Am I missing something. Do I need to do something to get them to work.


The *Tivo HD* will only work with the MY DVR Expander.

The *Series 3* works with virtually any external eSATA unit.


----------



## richsadams

randyelder said:


> I am confused. I have read and read these forums and I get that the only esata drive that works is the DVR expander, but then I read a lot of people using other drives. I have tried a seagate 500gb and also a WD 750gb drive in the Antec case and all I get when I hook it up is that this device may not be set up. And when it asks me if I want to set up the drive, I say yes and it just says the same thing, this device may not be set up. Am I missing something. Do I need to do something to get them to work.


*dwit *is correct...as I pointed out in my response to your other post on the same subject.


----------



## jlib

The first post in this thread should have all the info you are seeking. If any particular section is unclear, point that out and many here can clarify. In a nutshell, there is only one "supported by TiVo" external drive (which you don't have) but there are methods to make most external drives work. It involves removing your drives and attaching to a PC. Look for mention of WinMFS or MFSLive tools to accomplish your goal and follow the steps mentioned. Don't worry, it is not a difficult procedure (usually).


----------



## randyelder

I have the series 3 9.2a with the original internal drive. I have followed the instructions for hooking it up. I do not get the #1, #2, and #3 screens as mentioned in the instructions. I go into add the drive and after exiting it will see the external drive and it says it may not be set up. It asks if I want to set it up now and I say yes and it just comes up and says this device may not be set up. Do I need to delete partitions first.


----------



## hlazare

I've tried many, many times to register at the WINFMSLive.org site with no luck. I keep getting "Invalid Session. Please resubmit the form.
The confirmation code you entered was incorrect". Even though I entered the confirmation code correctly.
I just want to download "winMFS" to marry my e-sata drive to an expanded internal hard drive.
Has anybody had this problem or can offer any help. Thanks!


----------



## dpfels

richsadams said:


> You are correct sir. The only way to get anything but the approved WD My DVR Expander to work with your THD is to pull the hard drive and use WinMFS or a Linux boot disk to marry them up. More often than not it's more practical to just upgrade the internal drive and save the old one as a backup. It's quite easy to do if you don't mind removing the TiVo drive and connecting it to a PC. If you follow the WinMFS instructions it's a very painless way to get more disk space...takes more time to R&R the drives than running the actual program. :up:


Thanks. I have already updated an older S2 using WinMFS. I was holding off to avoid voiding the warranty on the newer TivoHD. Also, the idea of plug and play was appealing. However, I was unhappy with the 500Gb limit on the WD drive. I went for 750Gb.

A few questions about WinMFS in its current version:
1. Does it now preserve the recordings on the existing drive?
2. Does it void the warranty to simply marry the external drive rather than replacing the internal?
3. If I replace the internal drive, can I still add the external later?
4. Are there any problems with losing the cable card information?

Thanks!
Dan


----------



## randyelder

I get it finally. Because my information screens said series 3, I assumed that's what I had. Thanks for all your help guys.


----------



## richsadams

dpfels said:


> Thanks. I have already updated an older S2 using WinMFS. I was holding off to avoid voiding the warranty on the newer TivoHD. Also, the idea of plug and play was appealing. However, I was unhappy with the 500Gb limit on the WD drive. I went for 750Gb.
> 
> A few questions about WinMFS in its current version:
> 1. Does it now preserve the recordings on the existing drive?
> 2. Does it void the warranty to simply marry the external drive rather than replacing the internal?
> 3. If I replace the internal drive, can I still add the external later?
> 4. Are there any problems with losing the cable card information?
> 
> Thanks!
> Dan


Hi Dan...glad to help.

1. Yes, you can save your current recordings onto a new internal/upgraded drive. It takes some added effort and time is all. Follow the directions carefully and you shouldn't have any problems.

2. Yes, if TiVo is aware that you've opened the box and changed anything, it would void the warranty. That said, it's a good idea to simply keep the OEM hard drive and if something goes wrong you can always pop it back in and ship it back...no one will be the wiser (as long as you don't forget a screwdriver in there or something ). Keeping the original drive as a backup is highly recommended anyway.

3. Yes, but you'll have to pull it back out to marry the two drives together, again using WinMFS.

4. If you follow the directions your cable card information will be copied over along with your Season Passes, etc. so no problem.


----------



## richsadams

hlazare said:


> I've tried many, many times to register at the WINFMSLive.org site with no luck. I keep getting "Invalid Session. Please resubmit the form.
> The confirmation code you entered was incorrect". Even though I entered the confirmation code correctly.
> I just want to download "winMFS" to marry my e-sata drive to an expanded internal hard drive.
> Has anybody had this problem or can offer any help. Thanks!


Welcome to the forum. :up:

You could try sending the owner, Spike a P.M. (click here) to see if he can get it corrected. Or you could just try signing up under a different name/password and see if that works.


----------



## dpfels

richsadams said:


> Hi Dan...glad to help.
> 
> 1. Yes, you can save your current recordings onto a new internal/upgraded drive. It takes some added effort and time is all. Follow the directions carefully and you shouldn't have any problems.
> 
> 2. Yes, if TiVo is aware that you've opened the box and changed anything, it would void the warranty. That said, it's a good idea to simply keep the OEM hard drive and if something goes wrong you can always pop it back in and ship it back...no one will be the wiser (as long as you don't forget a screwdriver in there or something ). Keeping the original drive as a backup is highly recommended anyway.
> 
> 3. Yes, but you'll have to pull it back out to marry the two drives together, again using WinMFS.
> 
> 4. If you follow the directions your cable card information will be copied over along with your Season Passes, etc. so no problem.


Fantastic.

Thanks again!


----------



## richsadams

randyelder said:


> I get it finally. Because my information screens said series 3, I assumed that's what I had. Thanks for all your help guys.


No problem, it is a bit confusing. The TiVo HD is in fact in the Series3 family, it's just referred to as the TiVo HD or THD to differentiate it from the "original" TiVo Series3 or S3.

Best of luck and let us know what you decide to do. Or enjoy that new PC expansion drive!


----------



## richsadams

There was a post on this thread today that listed what AFAIK is a new drive from Western Digital specifically designed for DVR use, the *WD AV-GP hard drive*, model number *WD10EVCS*. It comes in 500GB, 750GB and 1TB's. It's part of their new "environmentally friendly" Green or GP line.

As most of us remember, the earlier WD 1TB OEM version (Model #WD10EACS-*00ZJB0*) ended up being problematic as an internal upgrade on the Series3's (hangs on soft reboots). However the "retail" version (Model # WD10EACS-*32ZJB0* ) worked fine but now appears to be out of production. (I've had one of the "retail" models in our Series3 for a while now with no problems).

Since this is a new drive model and is aimed at DVR use (speaking directly to HD recording capacity, etc.) I think we'd all be very interested in knowing if it will in fact work as not only an internal drive upgrade for the Series3 but for the TiVo HD as well as an expansion drive for both TiVo's.

Newegg.com isn't selling it yet, but the OP had this link to others that are:

http://www.google.com/products?q=WD10EVCS&btnG=Search+Products

At the moment it is selling for about the same price as the "original" 1TB drive, but it should come down as time goes on.

Any volunteers/pioneers out there??


----------



## jlib

richsadams said:


> ...Newegg.com isn't selling it yet, but the OP had this link to others that are:
> 
> http://www.google.com/products?q=WD10EVCS&btnG=Search+Products


And you will notice the others aren't either. OEM drives take a more convoluted route to the market so it may be very spotty for some time. Anyway, not worth bothering with if there is any price premium.


----------



## hlazare

To: Richsadams
Re.: WINFMSLive.org site
I've tried different e-mails etc. with the same results. I've taken your advice and sent a message to spike a. P. M. using your link.
Thanks for your help.
Howard


----------



## richsadams

jlib said:


> And you will notice the others aren't either. OEM drives take a more convoluted route to the market so it may be very spotty for some time. Anyway, not worth bothering with if there is any price premium.


Agreed. I think the only advantage to the new one would be if it works as an internal upgrade with Series3's.


----------



## richsadams

hlazare said:


> To: Richsadams
> Re.: WINFMSLive.org site
> I've tried different e-mails etc. with the same results. I've taken your advice and sent a message to spike a. P. M. using your link.
> Thanks for your help.
> Howard


Spike's usually very responsive particularly in light of the fact that he's done all of this work for free. I've encouraged him to put a PayPal link on his site. I'd be willing to donate to the cause...it's got to be very time consuming and I know there are many, many other people here that appreciate his efforts.


----------



## hlazare

richsadams said:


> Spike's usually very responsive particularly in light of the fact that he's done all of this work for free. I've encouraged him to put a PayPal link on his site. I'd be willing to donate to the cause...it's got to be very time consuming and I know there are many, many other people here that appreciate his efforts.


The site is now working! Thanks to both Rich and Spike.
Best to you.
Howard


----------



## d j h

I have a Series3 HD that will not recognize the WD 500gb external storage. I've tried 3 units (one at a time). (2 drives are for my son's units and one is for me.)
2 of the drives are not recognized at all. One is seen by the Series3, but keeps asking to be installed. 
Each time (multiple times for each drive) I power off the Series3, power off the WD500, power on the WD500, then power on the Series3. 
I've gone through multiple restarts and Guided Setups with each drive. No success. 
Help!


----------



## ThAbtO

d j h said:


> I have a Series3 HD that will not recognize the WD 500gb external storage. I've tried 3 units (one at a time). (2 drives are for my son's units and one is for me.)
> 2 of the drives are not recognized at all. One is seen by the Series3, but keeps asking to be installed.
> Each time (multiple times for each drive) I power off the Series3, power off the WD500, power on the WD500, then power on the Series3.
> I've gone through multiple restarts and Guided Setups with each drive. No success.
> Help!


Did you wait 15-30 seconds before starting the Tivo S3?


----------



## moxie1617

d j h said:


> I have a Series3 HD that will not recognize the WD 500gb external storage. I've tried 3 units (one at a time). (2 drives are for my son's units and one is for me.)
> 2 of the drives are not recognized at all. One is seen by the Series3, but keeps asking to be installed.
> Each time (multiple times for each drive) I power off the Series3, power off the WD500, power on the WD500, then power on the Series3.
> I've gone through multiple restarts and Guided Setups with each drive. No success.
> Help!


If the WD 500GB external storage you are using isn't a WD My DVR Expander, it will not work with a Tivo HD. See the 1st post of this thread, Item I.1 of the FAQ.


----------



## d j h

moxie1617 said:


> If the WD 500GB external storage you are using isn't a WD My DVR Expander, it will not work with a Tivo HD. See the 1st post of this thread, Item I.1 of the FAQ.


Thanks for responding.
Yes, each of the 3 are Western Digital My DVD Expanders. They were purchased from TiVo (online store) just before Christmas.
My Series3 was purchased from WeaKnees.com 10/13/06 "s3-tivo-750gb - TiVo Series 3 HD TiVo with 750GB drive".


----------



## d j h

ThAbtO said:


> Did you wait 15-30 seconds before starting the Tivo S3?


Many thanks for responding.
Not sure. Wasn't conscious of the wait time.
I'll try each again, being sure to wait at least a minute after powering down both the drive and the TiVo.


----------



## richsadams

d j h said:


> Thanks for responding.
> Yes, each of the 3 are Western Digital My DVD Expanders. They were purchased from TiVo (online store) just before Christmas.
> My Series3 was purchased from WeaKnees.com 10/13/06 "s3-tivo-750gb - TiVo Series 3 HD TiVo with 750GB drive".


You have what is considered a "previously upgraded internal hard drive". Unfortunately the plug and play option for an eSATA expansion drive doesn't work with upgraded internal hard drives.

*Section III. Non Verified Drives, #10* in the first post of this thread discusses the options for adding/marrying an eSATA drive to a previously upgraded Series3. It involves removing the drive, connecting it to your PC and running one of the programs available from http://www.mfslive.org. It's not to difficult, but does require a bit of work on your part.


----------



## bkdtv

As indicated above, if you upgraded your TiVo or purchased a pre-upgraded TiVo, then the "plug and play" eSATA expansion is no longer functional. You can still add a drive, but it must be done using the instructions in Part III, FAQ #10.



ThAbtO said:


> Did you wait 15-30 seconds before starting the Tivo S3?


A wait time is unnecessary. But the cable must be inserted firmly on both the TiVo and the drive, or it will not work.


----------



## d j h

*Many, many thanks* for the info on how to marry my non verified drive (previously upgraded to 750gb) to a WD 500gb external.


----------



## CharlesH

richsadams said:


> 2. Yes, if TiVo is aware that you've opened the box and changed anything, it would void the warranty.


I think that is is worth noting that while upgrading the hard drive will void the warranty and support, TiVo doesn't consider such activity to be an offense where they would cancel your service or such. It's pretty much "OK, but now you are on your own if your TiVo breaks".


----------



## richsadams

CharlesH said:


> I think that is is worth noting that while upgrading the hard drive will void the warranty and support, TiVo doesn't consider such activity to be an offense where they would cancel your service or such. It's pretty much "OK, but now you are on your own if your TiVo breaks".


Thus the rest of my post...



> That said, it's a good idea to simply keep the OEM hard drive and if something goes wrong you can always pop it back in and ship it back...no one will be the wiser (as long as you don't forget a screwdriver in there or something ). Keeping the original drive as a backup is highly recommended anyway.


----------



## BruceShultes

You also may want to consider getting another esata cable from someplace like SIIG.

Even though my S3 recognized the external drive when I first attached it, I kept having problems until I replaced the cable supplied with my esata enclosure.


----------



## ashu

Ummm - he bought his pre-upgraded S3 in October of 2006 - it no longer has a warranty. Even if it were Oct 2007, the parts warranty (or is it labor?) is nigh over.


----------



## richsadams

ashu said:


> Ummm - he bought his pre-upgraded S3 in October of 2006 - it no longer has a warranty. Even if it were Oct 2007, the parts warranty (or is it labor?) is nigh over.


You're referring to this post by *d j h* about adding an expansion drive to his upgraded Series3 (which was indeed purchased back in '06).

My (and *CharlesH*) post about the warranty was in response to this post by *dpfelsh* regarding his new TiVo HD.

It's easy to get confused around here sometimes.


----------



## CTLesq

Mr. Adams,

I see that you have a 1TB internal HD for your Series3. 

I have a Series3 as well and am interested in doing the same with my TiVo.

Can you explain how you did that or a vendor that can provide that service? I would be more interested in paying a vendor to do it than to do it myself.)

Please feel free to PM me if it is more appropriate.

Thank you for your time.

CTL


----------



## ciper

CTLesq: Section three step 11 of this very FAQ covers this.


----------



## drhankz

CTLesq said:


> Can you explain how you did that or a vendor that can provide that service? I would be more interested in paying a vendor to do it than to do it myself.


He most likely did it by reading the FIRST Post in This Thread.


----------



## ThAbtO

Try http://www.dvrupgrade.com/dvr/stores/1/index_tcf.cfm if you aren't willing to upgrade the tivo on your own.


----------



## richsadams

CTLesq said:


> Mr. Adams,
> 
> I see that you have a 1TB internal HD for your Series3.
> 
> I have a Series3 as well and am interested in doing the same with my TiVo.
> 
> Can you explain how you did that or a vendor that can provide that service? I would be more interested in paying a vendor to do it than to do it myself.)
> 
> Please feel free to PM me if it is more appropriate.
> 
> Thank you for your time.
> 
> CTL


_Mr. Adams_ was my father...you'll just have to settle for me. 

As others have mentioned you can probably find the info you need on the very first post of this thread. Although it's called the "Official eSATA Drive Expansion: FAQ + Discussion", the excellent info collected by bkdtv also discusses internal upgrades. See the very last section, #30.

That said, it's terribly simple to do it yourself if you're at all comfortable opening your PC and connecting a hard drive. There's a program called WinMFS available for free at http:www.mfslive.org. It basically involves removing the existing hard drive from TiVo (very easy), connecting it to your PC (via a SATA connection ideally) along with your new hard drive and running the WinMFS program. A few simple commands later and you pop the new drive in your TiVo and Bob's your uncle (still don't know what that means). The program copies the info on your current drive to the new drive, allows the new size to work with it and that's about it. It took me more time to R&R the hard drives than to actually run the WinMFS program. 

You have a couple of choices when it comes to hard drives. The Western Digital drive I used is no longer being offered in a "retail" version and the OEM version which is still available does not work as an internal upgrade for Series3 TiVo's. Western Digital is introducing a new DVR dedicated hard drive line called the WD AV-GP. AFAIK it's not available for sale just yet, but I'd expect it to be in the next few weeks if not sooner. It might be worth the wait.

Hitachi makes the CinemaStar and others are using the Hitachi Deskstar hard drives (although the DeskStars are reportedly fairly noisy). Samsung also makes a good 1TB hard drive which works well. IIRC someone tried using a new Seagate 1TB drive and was not happy with it.

If you're not up for that, you can buy a pre-formatted drive from Weaknees.com or DVR Upgrade. You'd still have to remove and replace the hard drive in your TiVo, but that's a little easier and quicker than doing it all yourself...although more expensive.

Good luck and let us know how things go. :up:


----------



## logicman1

logicman1 said:


> Decided to build my own expander. I found the Seagate 750Gb ST3750840SCE at ComputerHQ for $216.61 with free shipping. Found the Antec MX-1 enclosure at Buy.com for $52.24 also with free shipping. Buy.com also has the _SIIG CB-SA0111-S1 cable_ for $9.24 ($6.79 shipping). So for $284.88 I have 50% more space than the My DVR Expander.


Been up and running for a couple of weeks now - easy set up, works great. No problems after a power failure either.


----------



## CTLesq

Thanks to everyone who responded, I will take all of this into consideration.


----------



## The Swami

How snug a fit should the SIIG CB-SA0111-S1 cable be? It seems there is some good play up and down in my Antec MX-1 enclosure with this cable. Then again, I did not buy this SIIG from one of the listed vendors in the FAQ, so perhaps that is not the specific cable I was really shipped? 

It took at least 5 reboots and moving the drive around considerably and replugging the cable over and over with a lot of jiggling it up and around to get it recognized by my S3 as an attached external storage device. I'm guessing that is not the norm for this cable here. 

So I'm wondering if I should go out and try to get a replacement from one of the linked places in the FAQ for the CB-SA0111-S1. (I also noted in #s10/11 it calls this cable the CB-SA03111-S1, I am assuming that this "3" model is an outdated cable no longer worthy of use?)...I am hooking up from my Series3 to the aforementioned Antec MX-1 enclosure containing a Hitachi 1TB CinemaStar. Wasn't expecting to see the cable so easily moveable up/down. Any ideas or comments appreciated. thanks!


----------



## logicman1

The Swami said:


> How snug a fit should the SIIG CB-SA0111-S1 ... (I also noted in #s10/11 it calls this cable the CB-SA03111-S1, I am assuming that this "3" model is an outdated cable no longer worthy of use?)...


The cable you have (assuming you meant CB-SA0311-S1) has eSATA to SATA I connectors and is used for connecting a retail eSATA drive to the SATA port on your PC. This is probably the source of all the trouble you had. The CB-SA0111-S1 has eSATA connectors on each end and is what you need to connect an external drive enclosure to the S3. As far as snuggness goes, the connectors fit tightly but do not seem to lock in with a positive snap.


----------



## richsadams

As *logicman1 *mentions, good eSATA cables with proper connectors will be snug at both ends.


----------



## The Swami

i musta got hosed then. i did purchase (ostensibly) the SIIG CB-SA0111-S1 cable. the end in the Tivo is snug indeed. the end going into the Antec is not. or not nearly as fitting as the Tivo end is anyway. i'll see about getting another cable for comparison sakes just to see if it makes a difference or if i'm losing my mind.


----------



## richsadams

The Swami said:


> i musta got hosed then. i did purchase (ostensibly) the SIIG CB-SA0111-S1 cable. the end in the Tivo is snug indeed. the end going into the Antec is not. or not nearly as fitting as the Tivo end is anyway. i'll see about getting another cable for comparison sakes just to see if it makes a difference or if i'm losing my mind.


Before you order another cable, try connecting the eSATA cable that came with the MX-1. If it's also loose at the enclosure connection it may not be the cable...but the connector in the MX-1. IIRC there was one other post that said the connector on their MX-1 was faulty and they were able to get a replacement enclosure from Antec. Just a thought.

I guess I'd also try using the Antec cable as well. Ours worked flawlessly but I bought our enclosure back in April or so...seems the eSATA cables they were shipping last summer were problematic and then by the fall it seemed to have cleared up.

Let us know how it goes.


----------



## logicman1

The Swami said:


> i musta got hosed then. i did purchase (ostensibly) the SIIG CB-SA0111-S1 cable...


I misunderstood and thought you bought a CB-SA0311-S1, but that would be impossible to connect.  As Rich said, try the MX-1 cable. The only difference I could see between the SIIG and Antec cables was that the SIIG's connectors (the part that inserts into the socket) were a bit longer.


----------



## danitaz

> When using USB->SATA adapters, this copy process can take as long as several days depending on the number of recordings on your original drive. WinMFS does not refresh its GUI during this process, so it may appear to hang, but it is still working as intended. If you want to monitor the progress of WinMFS' copying, use 'Ctrl+Alt-Del' to invoke the Windows Task Manager, then navigate to 'Bytes In' and 'Bytes Out.'


I'm trying to fix a problem with my TiVO rebooting on HD channels, which seems to be hard drive related. I have both drives connected internally, not USB (we did try USB and indeed it seemed like it was going to take days, so after letting it run overnight I stopped it and put the drives internal). Up to almost 50%, the GUI DID update, and now it says I have 51 minutes left, and the bytes in/bytes out are not updating. Perplexing. Could it be that my Tivo HD is so bad that it can't continue the copy? I'm tempted to put the old drive back in the TiVO, T2GO any programs that I want to keep, and then just do a backup/restore without the programs to see how that goes.

Any other suggestions? During the process I'm "upgrading" the drive to a 1TB drive, so I don't know if maybe there is just some kind of a "lag" while the TiVO "finishes" the process.

Thanks.

Danita


----------



## danitaz

danitaz said:


> I'm tempted to put the old drive back in the TiVO, T2GO any programs that I want to keep, and then just do a backup/restore without the programs to see how that goes.


Actually, that's what I did - so far so good with the HD recordings.

Danita


----------



## lrhorer

richsadams said:


> _Mr. Adams_ was my father...you'll just have to settle for me.


We're devastated, but we'll cope somehow. 



richsadams said:


> you pop the new drive in your TiVo and Bob's your uncle (still don't know what that means).


I think it probably has something to do with a great sense of relief to be assured he isn't one's father.


----------



## lrhorer

I bought a Hitachi Deskstar HDP725050GLA360 500G SATA hard drive to upgrade the 160G stock hard drive in my TiVo HD, and it will not work in this application. Win_MFS copies the partitions just fine, and I can read and write all the ordinary files using a Linux boot, but no matter what, the drive will not boot. Instead, it enters into an infinite reboot loop before even loading the OS. I went down to Wal-Mart and got a Western Digital 320G, and it boots just fine. It seems evident this model is incompatible with the TiVo Hd, at least as a primary drive. Why, I don't know.


----------



## lrhorer

richsadams said:


> Before you order another cable, try connecting the eSATA cable that came with the MX-1. If it's also loose at the enclosure connection it may not be the cable...but the connector in the MX-1. IIRC there was one other post that said the connector on their MX-1 was faulty and they were able to get a replacement enclosure from Antec. Just a thought.


Note that aside from the cable issue, the Antec MX-1 has had a great success record. I have three of them, and they are great. Dozens of users in this forum have used them with few issues.



richsadams said:


> I guess I'd also try using the Antec cable as well. Ours worked flawlessly but I bought our enclosure back in April or so...seems the eSATA cables they were shipping last summer were problematic and then by the fall it seemed to have cleared up.


I'd rate that as a good thing. First of all, even with the faulty cable issue (which I experienced), the enclosure is well worth the price in my estimation. Any manufacturer can encounter a design flaw or quality control issue with one of their products. This does not in and of itself imply a poor product. A manufacturer who experieces such an issue and fixes it definitely providees a worthy product.


----------



## lrhorer

I ran across this neat little trick over on the MFS_Live forum:

Swap the little SATA cables inside the TiVo and move the internal drive to an e-SATA enclosure like the Antec MX-1. This makes things like replacing, upgrading, or maintaining the internal drive much easier.


----------



## danitaz

lrhorer said:


> I ran across this neat little trick over on the MFS_Live forum:
> 
> Swap the little SATA cables inside the TiVo and move the internal drive to an e-SATA enclosure like the Antec MX-1. This makes things like replacing, upgrading, or maintaining the internal drive much easier.


That's an interesting idea. I still have my TiVo "half apart" - well, at least I haven't put all of the screws back yet - and since I accidentally got the WD drive that won't soft reboot, I WILL have to change it out again one of these days anyway. I just want to wait until I know that replacing the hard drive in the first place fixes my overall problem (rebooting on HD channels - and in the past 24 hours it SEEMS to have fixed that). Once I know that a new drive fixes the problem, and a soft reboot lock up makes me miss out on something I wish it hadn't, I'll get a different drive and make the WD the external drive - so putting it in an external eSATA enclosure now would make that eventual swap an easy one! I'll have to look for a cable tomorrow and see if I can make that happen. Of course, with the problems people have with the external enclosure cables, I'm only "hopeful" that a SATA>eSATA cable would be stable enough to keep my fussy TiVO happy!

Danita


----------



## Clentz

danitaz said:


> That's an interesting idea. I still have my TiVo "half apart" - well, at least I haven't put all of the screws back yet - and since I accidentally got the WD drive that won't soft reboot, I WILL have to change it out again one of these days anyway. I just want to wait until I know that replacing the hard drive in the first place fixes my overall problem (rebooting on HD channels - and in the past 24 hours it SEEMS to have fixed that). Once I know that a new drive fixes the problem, and a soft reboot lock up makes me miss out on something I wish it hadn't, I'll get a different drive and make the WD the external drive - so putting it in an external eSATA enclosure now would make that eventual swap an easy one! I'll have to look for a cable tomorrow and see if I can make that happen. Of course, with the problems people have with the external enclosure cables, I'm only "hopeful" that a SATA>eSATA cable would be stable enough to keep my fussy TiVO happy!
> 
> Danita


Keep the cable short (The connector long)
Carl


----------



## jlib

danitaz said:


> ...I'm only "hopeful" that a SATA>eSATA cable would be stable enough to keep my fussy TiVO happy!


I think what he was talking about was, on a THD, swapping the port on the TiVo mainboard that the eSATA connector plugs into. So, you would still be eSATA to eSATA but the internal drive would now be outside in an enclosure. I see limited value in doing that in that the external cable is inherently unstable in that the eSATA spec includes no locking mechanism. Also, in such a case additional expansion would require putting the drive back as internal.


----------



## CTLesq

I wanted to thank everyone who contributed to my question re: eSata, including those who correctly suggested I read the first post in the thread.

Ultimately, I opted for the Western Digital My DVR Expander. For my purposes, ease of installation, reliability and cost (although not a huge factor) I felt this was the best choice/path of least resistance for me.

I work a great deal which means sometimes shows sit on my Series3 for quite some time. I think there is a lot of TV right now that is appealing to me and having the additional storage space will be a great help.

Also, the advice in the posts and the first thread made installing the Western Digital My DVR Expander an absolute snap. 

Again, thanks for all your help and advice.

Craig


----------



## iWish

I wanted to thank the originator of this thread and the moderator. 

I bought the green cavier 1TB drive with the antec case to add as an external drive to my series 3. 

With tax about $300 for the package.

It has been working no problem for a week or so and there is absolutely no noise coming from the drive.

Since UHD was showing all Jericho issues in advance of the recent new episode, I decided to make the plunge.

165 hours of HD recording time is ridiculous but I love it!

Thanks again.


----------



## lrhorer

jlib said:


> I think what he was talking about was, on a THD, swapping the port on the TiVo mainboard that the eSATA connector plugs into.


That's right. If the user has 2 drives and no other hacking has been performed, then the utility of this is somewhat limited. One of my TiVos (a TiVO HD) only has one drive, and I don't intend to upgrade. The other two re not hacked, so I haven't performed this minor surgery on them, yet, but I do intend to hack them and when I do I will no doubt swap the drive locations.



jlib said:


> So, you would still be eSATA to eSATA but the internal drive would now be outside in an enclosure. I see limited value in doing that in that the external cable is inherently unstable in that the eSATA spec includes no locking mechanism. Also, in such a case additional expansion would require putting the drive back as internal.


No, additional expansion requires REMOVING both drives, so for simple 2 drive capacity expansion the trick provides little value but also few if any real drawbacks. In general, however, the only modifications which require both drives is capacity expansion. All other hacks only require the primary drive, and of course even capacity expansion only requires the one drive if one only has one drive.


----------



## lrhorer

iWish said:


> 165 hours of HD recording time is ridiculous but I love it!


Ridiculous? 'Hardly. I have a total of over 1000 HD hours, and I'll be running out of room sometime late this year. Fortunately, expanding the system is easy and fairly cheap.


----------



## donaudio

What is the difference between the WD10EACS and the WD10EVCS? I want to add an external 1 tb drive to my series 3.


----------



## richsadams

donaudio said:


> What is the difference between the WD10EACS and the WD10EVCS? I want to add an external 1 tb drive to my series 3.


See my answer to your same question on another thread here. The WD10EACS will work as an expansion/eSATA drive with your Series3. :up:


----------



## JayBird

I recently upgraded to a new TiVo HD, and I want to add storage...

I'm not afraid of doing an "unsupported" upgrade, as I did that to my original TiVo and have never had any issues. However, I will admit that there is an appeal to the ease of the "plug and play" method and having the upgrade supported by TiVo so you know it won't be a problem with future software upgrades.

So... I may just bite the bullet and get the 500 GB DVR expander and live with only half the storage I could get with a 1 TB drive.

But while reading the FAQ, I came across Section III, item 17:



> *Can I backup the recordings on my eSATA drive and restore it to an eSATA drive of larger size?*
> 
> This should be possible, but it is untested. As indicated in the previous FAQ, you would backup the contents of the old drive to the new drive using the dd or dd_rescue commands. Once you've done that, you would use mfsadd to enable the extra capacity on that drive. Credit to spike2k5 for this answer.


Has anybody tried this?

Here's my thinking... I buy a 500 GB DVR expander now, and when the 1 TB models eventually come out, I buy the 1 TB version and use this method to transfer my recordings to the new drive, thus never having to open up my TiVo HD, and, at least in theory, remaining supported by TiVo.

Any thoughts, comments, opinions, etc. on this idea?


----------



## richsadams

JayBird said:


> I recently upgraded to a new TiVo HD, and I want to add storage...
> 
> I'm not afraid of doing an "unsupported" upgrade, as I did that to my original TiVo and have never had any issues. However, I will admit that there is an appeal to the ease of the "plug and play" method and having the upgrade supported by TiVo so you know it won't be a problem with future software upgrades.
> 
> So... I may just bite the bullet and get the 500 GB DVR expander and live with only half the storage I could get with a 1 TB drive.
> 
> But while reading the FAQ, I came across Section III, item 17:
> 
> Has anybody tried this?
> 
> Here's my thinking... I buy a 500 GB DVR expander now, and when the 1 TB models eventually come out, I buy the 1 TB version and use this method to transfer my recordings to the new drive, thus never having to open up my TiVo HD, and, at least in theory, remaining supported by TiVo.
> 
> Any thoughts, comments, opinions, etc. on this idea?


That's a good thought, but AFAIK to date as mentioned, untested. There are a couple of issues at the moment.

At this time TiVo HD's recognize an eSATA drive by the HDD model number. That is why you can only use the "approved" WD My DVR Expander via P&P. Once a larger drive is approved by TiVo it would seem logical that they will still employ the same recognition method.

In addition every time a new eSATA drive is connected to a TiVo HD (or Series3) the disk is formatted and all existing content erased.

Based on the current "hacks" (WinMFS, etc.) you would still need to remove your TiVo HD's internal HDD to marry it to a new eSATA drive. So far Spike has not offered the ability to copy an existing eSATA drive's content to a new eSATA drive or to move it to a larger internal drive. Even if it were possible, the recognition and formatting issues may still come into play. You might want to post the same question on the MFSLive forum to get some more feedback.

Of course as time goes on all of this may be overcome with some more programming work by Spike or even by TiVo given that the situation will arise where people that have the existing My DVR Expander will want to upgrade to a larger one when they become available (assuming that they do...and no reason to think that they won't).

IMHO, the best way to get additional recording space for your TiVo HD right now is to go with the approved eSATA drive as you mentioned or open the box up and replace the existing HDD with a 1TB drive now and save the original as a backup JIC. Upgrading the internal drive is very easy to do...not quite P&P, but for anyone that's comfortable with connecting a hard drive to their PC, pretty much a piece of cake using WinMFS these days.

I wouldn't get too wrapped up in the TiVo "support" issue. What that basically means is that they will talk you through a few troubleshooting steps if you have an approved eSATA drive; steps that can be found on their website anyway. Otherwise, the drive manufacturer, in this case Western Digital, is responsible for replacing bad drives during the one-year warranty period. All drive manufacturers support drive replacements (often for 3 years or more), so TiVo "support" is, well, probably good for neophytes at best. And if you're worried about warranty support for your THD if you replace the internal HDD, you can just pop the original drive back in if something goes south in the event you need a warranty replacement.

Best of luck and let us know what you decide to do. :up:


----------



## donaudio

richsadams said:


> See my answer to your same question on another thread here. The WD10EACS will work as an expansion/eSATA drive with your Series3. :up:


Thanks a lot Rich. Sorry for the double post.


----------



## richsadams

donaudio said:


> Thanks a lot Rich.


Glad to help. Enjoy all of that new real estate!


----------



## korikoritx

Have there been any updates on the availability of the Western Digital 1 TB drive? The FAQ up top says it won't be available in 2007...but now that 2008 has rolled around I was hoping there would be some news. I just know that as soon as I buy the 500 GB drive, they will release the 1 TB option...


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## JayBird

korikoritx said:


> I just know that as soon as I buy the 500 GB drive, they will release the 1 TB option...


I feel exactly the same way...


----------



## richsadams

korikoritx said:


> Have there been any updates on the availability of the Western Digital 1 TB drive? The FAQ up top says it won't be available in 2007...but now that 2008 has rolled around I was hoping there would be some news. I just know that as soon as I buy the 500 GB drive, they will release the 1 TB option...


IIRC it will be "late" 2008 if and when a new/larger "approved" eSATA drive will be offered based on earlier posts from folks that have spoken w/TiVo as well as WD.


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## donaudio

Hi Rich: I contacted WD about the difference between the WD10EACS and the WD10EVCS. This is their reply. "Based on the overall product specifications, there is no meaningful difference between the two. We have been in the process of redoing our model numbers and that is probably what is causing the difference between the two model numbers"


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## richsadams

donaudio said:


> Hi Rich: I contacted WD about the difference between the WD10EACS and the WD10EVCS. This is their reply. "Based on the overall product specifications, there is no meaningful difference between the two. We have been in the process of redoing our model numbers and that is probably what is causing the difference between the two model numbers"


Thanks for that...good info. :up: Based on their own web site, they are clearly marketing them as two different products. The WD10EVCS is specifically for A/V, DVR use whereas the WD10EACS is simply geared toward "normal" PC and eSATA computer use.

There aren't many specification differences other than the DVR/WD10EVCS lists it's idle mode and seek mode as being a bit quieter; 24dBA/25dBA as opposed to the PC/WD10EACS's 25dBA/27dBA. Ours (WD10EACS) was very quiet stock and after changing the AAM setting to 128, slightly quieter. I'd wager that's what they've done with the newer DVR specific model. The only other thing I noticed on the newer DVR model was a feature called "SilkStream" which supposedly optimizes the drive for "smooth, continuous digital video playback of up to twelve simultaneous HD streams." Now if we could only get our TiVo's to that! 

Other than that the specs are just about identical, so the CSR you spoke with would seem to be right...they are just about identical.

The real question is if the "new" (WD10EVCS) drive will be compatible with all TiVo's, internally and as an eSATA drive or display the same soft reboot issue when used as an internal upgrade on the Series3's. Hopefully nothing new will appear regarding their use w/TiVo HD's!


----------



## jlib

JayBird said:


> I recently upgraded to a new TiVo HD, and I want to add storage...
> 
> I'm not afraid of doing an "unsupported" upgrade, as I did that to my original TiVo and have never had any issues...


Jaybird, one way of looking at this is to look at the hours of expansion you will achieve. How many hours did your SD Tivo have? If you got used to that you might be disappointed in a significant reduction going to HD. You really don't find people saying I wish I did not add so much storage space. You should add the maximum you can afford, internally first. Also, don't be too concerned about the "official support" issue. There is little support from either TiVo or WD anyway so you might as well do it your own way.


----------



## jlib

donaudio said:


> Hi Rich: I contacted WD about the difference between the WD10EACS and the WD10EVCS. This is their reply. "Based on the overall product specifications, there is no meaningful difference between the two. We have been in the process of redoing our model numbers and that is probably what is causing the difference between the two model numbers"


In an accidental and ironic sort of way, by being clueless the WD rep was actually correct in that there really is no meaningful difference between the two _for use in a TiVo._ They are mechanically identical. There is, of course, significant difference in the firmware and capabilities. The WD10EVCS supports the ATA 7 Streaming Feature Set specification and the WD10EACS doesn't. But in TiVo's case it doesn't matter.

And as richadams points out, since it is not available on the market yet, it has not been determined precisely if the WD10EVCS suffers from the same S3 soft reboot issue as the other members of the model family. One should assume it will be affected until proven otherwise.


----------



## JayBird

jlib said:


> Jaybird, one way of looking at this is to look at the hours of expansion you will achieve. How many hours did your SD Tivo have? If you got used to that you might be disappointed in a significant reduction going to HD. You really don't find people saying I wish I did not add so much storage space. You should add the maximum you can afford, internally first. Also, don't be too concerned about the "official support" issue. There is little support from either TiVo or WD anyway so you might as well do it your own way.


My original TiVo has 300 hours SD. So the TiVo HD has so far been a significant downgrade in capacity. I'm debating between the ease of installation and simplicity of the My DVR Expander and the capacity I would get if I simply did the upgrade myself. If I did it myself, I'd upgrade the internal drive to 1TB drive and probably also add 1TB externally so that I have about the same amount of HD capacity as I had SD capacity on my old TiVo.

Anybody know when the new Seagate 1TB DB35.4 drives will hit the street?


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## ashu

Before rushing off for a long weekend vacation, I picked up a Hitachi USB External 1TB drive (it contains the superfast 32MB cache 1TB SATA inside a USB/Firewire case) for around $200 (Best Buy, plethora of discounts, coupons, and then a further 'discount' thanks to Christmas gift cards)

I intend to crack it open and replace the S3's internal SATA with this one, unless someone makes a strong case for getting an Antec MX 1 case and adding the 1TB as an external SATA upgrade instead. The Hitachi 32MB cache drives are known to run warm - so would it be cooler inside the S3 (I'll also replace the fan with a Vantec heat sensitive fan, always do that when i upgrade a TiVo) or in the Antec external case? I'm leaning towards making it the single internal drive, and saving the 250 for use with the USB case as an external! One less possible point of failure for the S3.


----------



## richsadams

ashu said:


> Before rushing off for a long weekend vacation, I picked up a Hitachi USB External 1TB drive (it contains the superfast 32MB cache 1TB SATA inside a USB/Firewire case) for around $200 (Best Buy, plethora of discounts, coupons, and then a further 'discount' thanks to Christmas gift cards)
> 
> I intend to crack it open and replace the S3's internal SATA with this one, unless someone makes a strong case for getting an Antec MX 1 case and adding the 1TB as an external SATA upgrade instead. The Hitachi 32MB cache drives are known to run warm - so would it be cooler inside the S3 (I'll also replace the fan with a Vantec heat sensitive fan, always do that when i upgrade a TiVo) or in the Antec external case? I'm leaning towards making it the single internal drive, and saving the 250 for use with the USB case as an external! One less possible point of failure for the S3.


Congrats on the nice price for the Hitachi. I agree, I'd pop the case and upgrade the internal drive. Before doing that I'd run the diagnostics to be sure everything is okay and then the AAM with the Hitachi Feature Tool and reduce the acoustics to 128 to quiet things down. IIRC TiVo isn't capable of using anything more than 8MB or less of cache, but it's nice to have the "head room" I suppose.

I'd also put your original HDD on the shelf as a backup JIC. It's easier to drop it in if something goes south than formatting a new one with saved files or Instant Cake, etc. You can get a pretty good sized drive very cheap these days. I guess it depends on your budget and how much you consider your time worth though. OR you could wait and get another 1TB drive for a whopping 2TB's! 

Of course if you do use the Hitachi external case it would have to be with your computer as TiVo only works with SATA connections/drives (not USB).

The fan did a fine job in the Antec MX-1 I have. It ran very cool and quiet w/Seagate DB35 drive.

Good luck and let us know what you end up doing. :up:


----------



## jlib

ashu said:


> ...I'll also replace the fan with a Vantec heat sensitive fan, always do that when i upgrade a TiVo...


Just be sure to make note that the S3 uses an odd size. I think it is 70mm compared to 60mm fans in previous models. Detuning head seek speed (AAM) does allow the drive to run slightly cooler. Generally, there is not a requirement to upgrade the robust stock fan (unless it is noisy or failing) but if it has at least as much CFM as the stock fan everything should be OK.


----------



## jlib

richsadams said:


> ...IIRC TiVo isn't capable of using anything more than 8MB or less of cache, but it's nice to have the "head room" I suppose...


Not to worry. He is talking about the hardware cache memory chip on the drive itself that is only used by the drive internally (and is transparent to any host talking to the drive), not the part of TiVo memory that is used for caching data before or after being send to the drive. Having a large cache on the drive is not of any particular advantage for the use the TiVO will make of the drive, anyway.


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## rsilvers

I am stuck. After I mistakingly bought a few SATA cables, I got an eSATA cable and I cannot get my Tivo-3HD to recognize it.

I am using a Western Digital MyBook 750 GB drive (do 750 GB drives work?). Cable is newegg part number 12-150-023

I restarted the Tivo several times and it does not see the drive. I then took a razor and trimmed the cables to make sure they can push in all the way. The trimming seemed to go very well, but that did not fix the problem.

Do I try another cable? Do I assume I broke the hard drive trying to force in SATA cables? I have no computer that takes an eSATA drive so I cannot test the drive on something else.


----------



## richsadams

rsilvers said:


> I am stuck. After I mistakingly bought a few SATA cables, I got an eSATA cable and I cannot get my Tivo-3HD to recognize it.
> 
> I am using a Western Digital MyBook 750 GB drive (do 750 GB drives work?). Cable is newegg part number 12-150-023
> 
> I restarted the Tivo several times and it does not see the drive. I then took a razor and trimmed the cables to make sure they can push in all the way. The trimming seemed to go very well, but that did not fix the problem.
> 
> Do I try another cable? Do I assume I broke the hard drive trying to force in SATA cables? I have no computer that takes an eSATA drive so I cannot test the drive on something else.


Unfortunately the WD My Book series of external drives will not work with TiVo.

If you have a TiVo HD you can only install the approved WD My DVR Expander via plug & play. If you want to add anything else you'll need to modify your TiVo's software by removing the hard drive, connecting it to a computer and running a program.

If you have a Series3 you'd need to remove the drive and install it in another enclosure such as Antec's MX-1 for it to work via P&P.

If you don't want to use the approved WD My DVR Expander the best bet is to either simply upgrade the internal drive or buy a bare drive and install it in an enclosure. Both the TiVo HD and Series 3 can accommodate up to 1TB both internally and as expansion drives.

All the information you need is on the first post of this thread.


----------



## rsilvers

But I thought a Tivo-3 would accept nearly any external drive but give a warning. Is that not the case with the WD MyBook for some reason?

So if I buy that $60 MX-1 enclosure, can I pull the drive from the WD MyBook, put it into the MX-1 case, and expect it to work? Or will the raw drive inside the MyBook still not work, even in an MX-1 case?

Thanks. I wish I had just bought the MyDVRExpander. I was not looking for drama but really ASSumed it would just work.


----------



## ashu

rsilvers said:


> But I thought a Tivo-3 would accept nearly any external drive but give a warning. Is that not the case with the WD MyBook for some reason?
> 
> So if I buy that $60 MX-1 enclosure, can I pull the drive from the WD MyBook, put it into the MX-1 case, and expect it to work? Or will the raw drive inside the MyBook still not work, even in an MX-1 case?
> 
> Thanks. I wish I had just bought the MyDVRExpander. I was not looking for drama but really ASSumed it would just work.


That specific eSATA device (the WD MyBook) uses some sort of SATA-like-but-not-quite-SATA features and has been shown to not work with either HD TiVo.

The drive inside it (likely a WD GP 5400-7200 device - runs cool) should work in an Antec MX-1 external case - but unless you got teh external device at a great price (like my Hitachi above) I'd suggest that if you can return the WD I'd exercise that option and buy a separate SATA hard drive to plunk into the TiVo as a standalone drive, or into an Antec MX-1 or other recommended eSATA enclosure instead.


----------



## ashu

Thanks for the acoustic tool link/reminder - although I intended to; and thanks for the fan size headsup - I have spare 60mm Vantec fans (with twice the CFM of the average 60) but I agree - replacnig a good, worknig 70 is likely not worth the hassle.

I'll watch the device temperatures, post upgrade, and decide later - I might install the 60 with a 70->60 funnel if they make those (I often do that with CPU fans - use a 60-80 funnel when the 60mm fan on a CPU dies!)


----------



## jlib

rsilvers said:


> But I thought a Tivo-3 would accept nearly any external drive but give a warning. Is that not the case with the WD MyBook for some reason?


Unfortunately not.  See Section III #6 of the FAQ on the first post:

III. Non Verified Drives
...

6. What retail drives do not work with the TiVo?

Based on member reports, the My Book Home Edition (320GB - 1TB) eSATA drive is incompatible with the TiVo and cannot be used. The bridge chip built into that product's enclosure is believed to be responsible for the incompatibility, because if you remove the bare drive from the enclosure and install it in another, it will work.

...​


----------



## richsadams

rsilvers said:


> But I thought a Tivo-3 would accept nearly any external drive but give a warning. Is that not the case with the WD MyBook for some reason?
> 
> So if I buy that $60 MX-1 enclosure, can I pull the drive from the WD MyBook, put it into the MX-1 case, and expect it to work? Or will the raw drive inside the MyBook still not work, even in an MX-1 case?
> 
> Thanks. I wish I had just bought the MyDVRExpander. I was not looking for drama but really ASSumed it would just work.


The TiVo Series3 (if that's what you have) does accept a wide variety of eSATA drives via P&P. However the WD My Book series uses a three-way bridge (USB/Firewire/eSATA) that is not compatible with TiVo. As *ashu *suggests, it's probably best to return the drive that you have (opening the case will void the warranty) and buy the approved drive from TiVo or if you want a larger drive and/or drive and an enclosure combo choose from the recommendations on the first post.

If you do decide on a drive and MX-1 enclosure you can usually find the MX-1 for somewhere between $29.99 and $45 if you shop around. Again, all of your questions can likely be answered by reading the first post on this sticky thread, but if not, don't hesitate to ask.


----------



## jlib

rsilvers said:


> ...So if I buy that $60 MX-1 enclosure, can I pull the drive from the WD MyBook, put it into the MX-1 case, and expect it to work?


Yes. And since you already have SATA cables you could also just get a $15 Sata card and use the bare drive and WinMFS to replace the internal drive leaving the eSATA open for future expansion. But either method will be fine.


----------



## rsilvers

I don't think I can return the drive. I have had it for many weeks while waiting for these various cables to come. I also made no attempt to save the packaging. I think my best bet is to stick this drive on my wife's PC for her to save family photos and video, and start over. Not pleased by that since I have various other 1 TB LaCie firewire drives setting around that she could use instead though they have been dying like flies (tends to be the power supplies which die actually).

I ASSumed it would work since it looks just like MyDVR Expander.

I would get a MyDVR Expander but I am bummed about 500 GB. Do we think a larger model is due any day now, or not until the end of the year?

The FAQ is very well written and I am sorry for asking questions that were covered. It just feels safer to get confirmation on some of the points.


----------



## richsadams

rsilvers said:


> I don't think I can return the drive. I have had it for many weeks while waiting for these various cables to come. I also made no attempt to save the packaging. I think my best bet is to stick this drive on my wife's PC for her to save family photos and video, and start over. Not pleased by that since I have various other 1 TB LaCie firewire drives setting around that she could use instead though they have been dying like flies (tends to be the power supplies which die actually).
> 
> I ASSumed it would work since it looks just like MyDVR Expander.
> 
> I would get a MyDVR Expander but I am bummed about 500 GB. Do we think a larger model is due any day now, or not until the end of the year?
> 
> The FAQ is very well written and I am sorry for asking questions that were covered. It just feels safer to get confirmation on some of the points.


Sounds like a good plan...making the wife happy that is. 

Word on the street (or on the forum in this case) is that there probably won't be a larger TiVo approved eSATA drive until "late" 2008...just in time for Christmas. That doesn't mean that there won't be a WD version that will work that's not approved. There is a new line of hard drives, the WD10EVCS  (500GB, 750GB & 1TB) from Western Digital which is designed specifically for DVR use. The bare drive is not readily available at this point but will be soon and I suspect we'll see a fully P&P My DVR Expander version in the larger sizes soon. There's a discussion about them on this thread.

Hang in there and let us know what you decide to do. :up:


----------



## rsilvers

I added a MyDVRExpander and it works -- even with the cable that I hacked up. While 750GB total is not awe-inspiring, it will probably be ok. My Tivo records a lot and things were getting recycled every 2-3 days so now I will get a good week out of it which is much better.

I will probably stick the 750 GB drive from the MyBook into my digital security system as it takes SATA drives.


----------



## richsadams

rsilvers said:


> I added a MyDVRExpander and it works -- even with the cable that I hacked up. While 750GB total is not awe-inspiring, it will probably be ok. My Tivo records a lot and things were getting recycled every 2-3 days so now I will get a good week out of it which is much better.
> 
> I will probably stick the 750 GB drive from the MyBook into my digital security system as it takes SATA drives.


Sounds good. Did you try the cable that was supplied with the My DVR Expander? Just wondering if they have improved the quality...there are more than a few complaints about them being flaky. It's good you have an extra cable JIC.

Of course there's nothing that will prevent you from installing or adding larger drives later. :up:


----------



## ALK3011

I am sorry for asking something that undoubtedly has been answered somewhere in the 30 plus pages of posts in this thread.

I am looking for a simple way to expand my HD Tivo. I don't need a ton of memory or anything fancy. Is the "supported" Western Digital My DVR Expander good? Does it work? Are people happy with the performance of this item?

Thanks!


----------



## ThAbtO

The Expander is the easiest way to expand storage, using any other drive you need to initialize following instructions posted elsewhere in this forum.


----------



## richsadams

ALK3011 said:


> I am sorry for asking something that undoubtedly has been answered somewhere in the 30 plus pages of posts in this thread.
> 
> I am looking for a simple way to expand my HD Tivo. I don't need a ton of memory or anything fancy. Is the "supported" Western Digital My DVR Expander good? Does it work? Are people happy with the performance of this item?
> 
> Thanks!


A number of people have been using the WD My DVR Expander with their TiVo HD's for several months now and it's certainly on the "recommended" list on the first post of this thread. You can buy it from TiVo online or at Best Buy (which is the exclusive retailer) for $199.

IIRC there was one member that said their drive arrived DOA and they were sent a replacement that worked. The only other issue that has come up (more than a few times) is the quality of the eSATA cable that comes with the drive which is used to connect the external drive to TiVo. Often the connection is loose or the connectors are poorly made and tend to disconnect when the drive is moved even slightly or the cable doesn't work at all. I haven't seen many complaints recently so they may resolved the issue. If for some reason the cable is bad, you can buy one that is known to work, the recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable for less than $10. Other cable recommendations can be found on the first post of this thread. (#25)

Bottom line is that they are working fine and if you're looking for an easy plug and play solution that's the one to get. As *ThAbtO* mentions, anything else will require some work, the details of which can be found on the first post as well.


----------



## ALK3011

THANKS!!!! Off to Best Buy


----------



## rooobosmith

Just want to report that I just installed a Maxtor 320GB drive with an I-Rocks eSata/USB enclosure with the TivoHD and it is working so far.


----------



## richsadams

rooobosmith said:


> Just want to report that I just installed a Maxtor 320GB drive with an I-Rocks eSata/USB enclosure with the TivoHD and it is working so far.


Welcome to the forum and congrats on a job well done. How did WinMFS work for you? Also, just curious...why did you opt for an external drive, that one in particular and why that enclosure? Guessing you had them lying around?


----------



## DingoAce10

What's up all,
I have a Series 3, has anyone tried the 1TB MyBook WD drive?
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/prod...513&moduleName=CustomerRatings#selectedReview

Was going to pick it up tonight, but wanted to check here first.
Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

DingoAce10 said:


> What's up all,
> I have a Series 3, has anyone tried the 1TB MyBook WD drive?
> http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/prod...513&moduleName=CustomerRatings#selectedReview
> 
> Was going to pick it up tonight, but wanted to check here first.
> Thanks!


Good thing you checked. Unfortunately per the first post on this thread - see Sec. I #2 and Sec. III #6 - plus numerous other posts, the WD My Book series does NOT work with TiVo. Plus the one you're looking at has a USB interface and TiVo requires an eSATA interface.

If you're considering it for an internal replacement it's possible that it is an OEM version of the WD GP drive series which also does not work with TiVo Series3's internally. (Opening the case would also void the warranty.)

It's best to stick with the recommended drives and/or enclosures listed on the first post of this thread.


----------



## DingoAce10

WOW! Thanks rich! I did not see that.
No, actually was definitely going for the external option.
Is there any eSATA external 1TB drives out there currently that will work with the Tivo S3?
Or manybe a 750gig?

If not I have no problem just settling for the 500gig MyDVR Extender.

Thanks again!


----------



## logicman1

DingoAce10 said:


> ... Is there any eSATA external 1TB drives out there currently that will work with the Tivo S3?
> Or manybe a 750gig? ...


It takes about 10 minutes to build your own. Just follow the recommendations on the first page of Official eSATA Drive Expansion in 9.2: FAQ + Discussion in Section III, items 26, 27 and 28. I built one using the Seagate 750 gb ST3750840SCE and Antec MX-1. Piece of cake.


----------



## richsadams

DingoAce10 said:


> WOW! Thanks rich! I did not see that.
> No, actually was definitely going for the external option.
> Is there any eSATA external 1TB drives out there currently that will work with the Tivo S3?
> Or manybe a 750gig?
> 
> If not I have no problem just settling for the 500gig MyDVR Extender.
> 
> Thanks again!


As *logicman1 *suggests, it's pretty easy to make your own. I put together a similar one using the Antec MX-1 enclosure and a Seagate DB35 500GB drive last May or so and it worked perfectly with our Series3 until I removed it and installed a 1TB internally a few months ago. DIY allows you to go up to 1TB externally. Antec even has a video tutorial on their web site to show you how it's done.

Others are using the Seagate Free Agent Pro external drive (up to 750GB) with some mixed success. The enclosure doesn't have a fan like the MX-1 so it needs plenty of ventilation. Plus the eSATA cables seem to give it some problems and may need replacing with one listed on the first post.

Otherwise the WD My DVR Expander from TiVo or Best Buy is the easiest P&P option.

WD is introducing a new line of DVR dedicated hard drives (500GB to 1TB) so they may begin showing up in a My DVR Expander one of these days, but it's hard to predict if or when. TiVo and WD have both said not to expect a larger "approved" expansion drive until at least late this year.


----------



## DingoAce10

Thanks! Yeah I definitely don't mind "building" my own external...Have don't it before for my PC...pretty much a peice of cake.
I just figured that if there was a 1TB external out there that was already "working" I would pick that one up.
I will check out the enclosures and HDDs
Thanks!


----------



## rooobosmith

richsadams said:


> Welcome to the forum and congrats on a job well done. How did WinMFS work for you? Also, just curious...why did you opt for an external drive, that one in particular and why that enclosure? Guessing you had them lying around?


WinMFS was a snap. Kudos to the developers.

I'm using an external drive, in order to take advantage of the additional space of the internal drive. 320GB is not much.

I got the I-Rocks case cause Meritline had them for $10 AR.

I got the Maxtor for $60 from Frys.

IOW, it was a cheap solution.


----------



## richsadams

rooobosmith said:


> WinMFS was a snap. Kudos to the developers.
> 
> I'm using an external drive, in order to take advantage of the additional space of the internal drive. 320GB is not much.
> 
> I got the I-Rocks case cause Meritline had them for $10 AR.
> 
> I got the Maxtor for $60 from Frys.
> 
> IOW, it was a cheap solution.


$70 for more space...who can argue that? Enjoy! :up:


----------



## ymeworry

Just picked up the the my dvr expander tonight, up and running in under 10 minutes (and 2 reboots).


----------



## richsadams

ymeworry said:


> Just picked up the the my dvr expander tonight, up and running in under 10 minutes (and 2 reboots).


Nice to hear everything went smoothly. Enjoy! :up:


----------



## brewman

I just ordered the WD10EVCS from Buy.com (supposedly they're in stock) to use as an internal upgrade for an S3. I bought my S3 when they first came out and it still has it's original drive (no external drive either). I'm going to install the new drive as soon as I get it and I'll post my results.



richsadams said:


> There was a post on this thread today that listed what AFAIK is a new drive from Western Digital specifically designed for DVR use, the *WD AV-GP hard drive*, model number *WD10EVCS*. It comes in 500GB, 750GB and 1TB's. It's part of their new "environmentally friendly" Green or GP line.
> 
> As most of us remember, the earlier WD 1TB OEM version (Model #WD10EACS-*00ZJB0*) ended up being problematic as an internal upgrade on the Series3's (hangs on soft reboots). However the "retail" version (Model # WD10EACS-*32ZJB0* ) worked fine but now appears to be out of production. (I've had one of the "retail" models in our Series3 for a while now with no problems).
> 
> Since this is a new drive model and is aimed at DVR use (speaking directly to HD recording capacity, etc.) I think we'd all be very interested in knowing if it will in fact work as not only an internal drive upgrade for the Series3 but for the TiVo HD as well as an expansion drive for both TiVo's.
> 
> Newegg.com isn't selling it yet, but the OP had this link to others that are:
> 
> http://www.google.com/products?q=WD10EVCS&btnG=Search+Products
> 
> At the moment it is selling for about the same price as the "original" 1TB drive, but it should come down as time goes on.
> 
> Any volunteers/pioneers out there??


----------



## richsadams

brewman said:


> I just ordered the WD10EVCS from Buy.com (supposedly they're in stock) to use as an internal upgrade for an S3. I bought my S3 when they first came out and it still has it's original drive (no external drive either). I'm going to install the new drive as soon as I get it and I'll post my results.


Excellent. :up: We'll look forward to hearing how things turn out. Best of luck and TIA.


----------



## jlib

Thanks for willingly plunging into the line of fire to test the WD10EVCS. It will be great if you discover it is not infected by the S3 soft-reboot bug its two 1TB siblings have.


----------



## dolfer

"Do not run the eSATA cord by an amplifier, speaker, or any other device with a
strong magnetic field."

Do you think it's ok to place your My DVR Expander next to your center speaker? Would this qualify as a "strong magnetic field?"


----------



## richsadams

dolfer said:


> "Do not run the eSATA cord by an amplifier, speaker, or any other device with a
> strong magnetic field."
> 
> Do you think it's ok to place your My DVR Expander next to your center speaker? Would this qualify as a "strong magnetic field?"


The short answer is no, placing your expansion drive by any speaker isn't a good idea.

A good eSATA cable will be shielded, but it's still best not only to keep cables away from EMI sources such as speakers (particularly sub-woofers) UPS, etc. but keeping hard drives as far away from them as possible is a good idea well. It might be a good investment to purchase a longer eSATA cable so that you can place it further away from anything that might cause data corruption.

A 2m cable such as this recommended one will work. (Try to keep it under 3m for best performance though.) Others are listed on the first post of this thread (see #26).


----------



## jlib

dolfer said:


> Do you think it's ok to place your My DVR Expander next to your center speaker? Would this qualify as a "strong magnetic field?"


Generally, most center speakers are thoroughly shielded (in case they are used with a CRT Display). That combined with the shielding on the cable itself should keep you safe. The worst thing to do is to run the cable parallel and in contact with an AC power cord.


----------



## jlib

richsadams said:


> A 2m cable such as this recommended one will work. (Try to keep it under 3m for best performance though.)


Yeah, it is good to keep it away from any moving magnetic fields. Note that a 3m cable would be 50% out of spec, though, so it is probably best to stay at 2m or less.


----------



## brewman

Mfscopy is now running.


----------



## lrhorer

jlib said:


> Yeah, it is good to keep it away from any moving magnetic fields. Note that a 3m cable would be 50% out of spec, though, so it is probably best to stay at 2m or less.


There's also a question of what constitutes "next to". Remember that a dipolar field drops off roughly as the inverse cube of the distance from the midpoint between the dipoles. Moving the cable an inch or two can make a huge difference in the induced EM potential.


----------



## richsadams

brewman said:


> Mfscopy is now running.


Looking forward to the outcome. The issue with the other WD GP drives is the soft reboot hang. Once you've installed the drive and see that everything is working as it should, try to restart TiVo using the menu commands and let us know how it goes. The WD GP OEM drives go to the "Welcome. Powering up" screen and that's it. Hopefully yours will work perfectly! :up:


----------



## brewman

richsadams said:


> Looking forward to the outcome. The issue with the other WD GP drives is the soft reboot hang. Once you've installed the drive and see that everything is working as it should, try to restart TiVo using the menu commands and let us know how it goes. The WD GP OEM drives go to the "Welcome. Powering up" screen and that's it. Hopefully yours will work perfectly! :up:


Completed upgrading of an S3's internal drive to a 1TB WD WD10EVCS (1TB AV GP SATA II). Upgraded with Mfscopy and Supersize. Copied existing shows/settings without problem.

TiVo reporting 144 HD hours.

*Passed soft reboot test*

Everything appears to be working normally.


----------



## vulture99

brewman said:


> Completed upgrading of an S3's internal drive to a 1TB WD WD10EVCS (1TB AV GP SATA II). Upgraded with Mfscopy and Supersize. Copied existing shows/settings without problem.
> 
> TiVo reporting 144 HD hours.
> 
> *Passed soft reboot test*
> 
> Everything appears to be working normally.


That's great news. I'm a new TiVo HD owner (woot.com deal) and plan to add the same drive. How quiet or noisy does the drive seem to you? Did you adjust any acoustic management settings?


----------



## Speqtre

Just completed adding a Western Digital Caviar GP WD7500AACS mounted in a Kingwin Z1 eSata enclosure using WinMFS. Holy crap, it's so easy I thought I must've borked something up! Everything looking good so far - 119hrs HD reported.


----------



## dwit

vulture99 said:


> That's great news. I'm a new TiVo HD owner (woot.com deal) and plan to add the same drive. How quiet or noisy does the drive seem to you? Did you adjust any acoustic management settings?


Just to clarify: the Tivo HD didn't have the soft reboot or any issues with the WD drives.

Only the S3 model unit had problems.


----------



## bkdtv

I added the WD10EVCS to the first post.

By request, I also added a new "noise level" column to the list of drives in FAQ #27. Please review and let me know if any entries should be modified.


----------



## faerie

I wanted to do a quick check about internal upgrades to a TiVoHD. I previously upgraded my Series 2 Direct Tivos with little problem.

In any case, in referencing the listing of hard drives in the initial post, they make reference to external drives and to Series 3, but I'm wondering if this list is also the best drives to use for a Tivo HD. I've been searching amazon and newegg for the Seagate drives mentioned, but I can't find the exact model number listed.


----------



## kokoko

I saw this on post #1

*19. Can I swap between multiple eSATA drives to multiply my capacity?*

No. When you connect an eSATA drive to the TiVo, that drive is "married" to the built-in hard drive. Only one eSATA drive can be "married" to the TiVo's built-in hard drive at any given time. You can remove an eSATA drive and replace it with another, but then you lose access to the recordings made on that drive.
-------------
Suppose I power down the S3, clone the external eSATA drive to a different external eSATA drive, swap the new external drive for the old, and power the S3 back up.

Will I lose any recordings made since I originally set up the old external drive?

The reason I want to do this is that my external drive case (NewerTech miniStack v3) has a fan bearing problem and I am being shipped a replacement. I'd like to clone all the data from the noisy drive to the replacement and not lose programs.

I imagine there are others who would want to use this procedure to replace there original external drive with larger capacity drive.

Anyone?

Thanks,

-Alan


----------



## brewman

vulture99 said:


> That's great news. I'm a new TiVo HD owner (woot.com deal) and plan to add the same drive. How quiet or noisy does the drive seem to you? Did you adjust any acoustic management settings?


As quiet or quieter than the stock drive out-of-the-box. This drive, WD10EVCS, is specifically designed for DVR type use so it's quiet and supposedly better suited for constant operation compared to a drive designed for use in PC's where it has down time.


----------



## bkdtv

faerie said:


> I wanted to do a quick check about internal upgrades to a TiVoHD. I previously upgraded my Series 2 Direct Tivos with little problem.
> 
> In any case, in referencing the listing of hard drives in the initial post, they make reference to external drives and to Series 3, but I'm wondering if this list is also the best drives to use for a Tivo HD. I've been searching amazon and newegg for the Seagate drives mentioned, but I can't find the exact model number listed.


I edited the post to make it clear that the list applies to both internal and external drive upgrades. All of the drives on that list will work well as internal upgrades for the TivoHD.

Newegg primarily sells desktop drives; I don't think they sell any "DVR models." Buy.com has the 1TB Western Digital WD10EVCS for $245 with free shipping, or $233 after this coupon.

TheNerds.net used to have the Seagate DB35 drives, but it appears they are sold out of the SATA model right now.


----------



## vulture99

dwit said:


> Just to clarify: the Tivo HD didn't have the soft reboot or any issues with the WD drives.
> 
> Only the S3 model unit had problems.


Ah, ok, thanks. That's even better 
BTW, I ordered the WD10EVCS from buy.com today for about $233 shipped (found a 5% coupon online).

(edit) Heh, bkdtv beat me to it


----------



## b_scott

anyone know the reasoning behind only letting you use the MyDVR on the TivoHD, while the Series3 has full reign? seems like it's a restriction put in there only to make you consider the Series3.


----------



## brewman

briansemerick said:


> anyone know the reasoning behind only letting you use the MyDVR on the TivoHD, while the Series3 has full reign? seems like it's a restriction put in there only to make you consider the Series3.


When they first enabled e-sata on the S3 they didn't have any restrictions on drive types and were probably inundated with support calls. They decided in the HD to limit external drives to ones they had confirmed work well, but decided not to screw over all the S3 users that had already hooked up drives.


----------



## Gregor

brewman said:


> When they first enabled e-sata on the S3 they didn't have any restrictions on drive types and were probably inundated with support calls. They decided in the HD to limit external drives to ones they had confirmed work well, but decided not to screw over all the S3 users that had already hooked up drives.


Not quite....



TiVoPony said:


> The backdoor that allowed any eSATA drive to work with the Series3 was not intended for public consumption. Once it got out though, there was little we could do short of disabling all the drives the community had already purchased and installed. That would have been unpleasant for everyone, so the Series3 is grandfathered to work with non-verified eSATA drives via the eSATA menus. We will not provide any support however for non-verified drives, or any issues that arise from having used one.
> 
> There wasn't a backdoor for the TiVo HD platform, nor will there be one. The TiVo Verified solutions are the way to go with a TiVo HD. I'd recommend it for the Series3 as well!
> 
> Pony


----------



## richsadams

brewman said:


> Completed upgrading of an S3's internal drive to a 1TB WD WD10EVCS (1TB AV GP SATA II). Upgraded with Mfscopy and Supersize. Copied existing shows/settings without problem.
> 
> TiVo reporting 144 HD hours.
> 
> *Passed soft reboot test*
> 
> Everything appears to be working normally.


Great to hear and thanks for reporting back.

Did you happen to copy down the actual drive/model number? It would be great to know exactly which designation WD is using for this new drive.

Cheers again for that! :up:


----------



## richsadams

kokoko said:


> I saw this on post #1
> 
> *19. Can I swap between multiple eSATA drives to multiply my capacity?*
> 
> No. When you connect an eSATA drive to the TiVo, that drive is "married" to the built-in hard drive. Only one eSATA drive can be "married" to the TiVo's built-in hard drive at any given time. You can remove an eSATA drive and replace it with another, but then you lose access to the recordings made on that drive.
> -------------
> Suppose I power down the S3, clone the external eSATA drive to a different external eSATA drive, swap the new external drive for the old, and power the S3 back up.
> 
> Will I lose any recordings made since I originally set up the old external drive?


 The answer is almost a certain yes, you will lose all of the recordings made since you connected your expansion drive. As mentioned previously all external drives are married to the internal drive when they are connected. TiVo recognizes external drives by their model number and each time a new drive is connected the drive is formatted or re-formatted and all data lost. That said, it's remotely possible that if you cloned the exact same drive (brand, model, size, etc.) TiVo might accept it as the original. AFAIK, no one has ever tried that.

The question of replacing an existing eSATA drive with a larger eSATA drive has come up before (yours truly asked about it several months ago on the MFSLive Forum). There is currently no way to save any of the recordings made since the expansion drive was installed due to the drive recognition factor. That may or may not be overcome one day, but at present, it's not possible.



kokoko said:


> The reason I want to do this is that my external drive case (NewerTech miniStack v3) has a fan bearing problem and I am being shipped a replacement. I'd like to clone all the data from the noisy drive to the replacement and not lose programs.
> 
> I imagine there are others who would want to use this procedure to replace there original external drive with larger capacity drive.
> 
> Anyone?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -Alan


If it's an external enclosure problem and not the actual drive my recommendation would be to put your existing drive into the new enclosure (if you can R&R the drives w/o voiding the warranty).

So if you can open your existing case, remove your drive and put it into the case you'll receive that should solve your dilemma. Another option would be to buy the recommended Antec MX-1 external enclosure and install your existing eSATA drive.

Bottom line is that external enclosures are transparent to TiVo; it's the actual drive that's important.

Remember, when removing and replacing your eSATA drive make sure you follow the correct order:

*Removing the eSATA Drive*

1. Unplug TiVo
2. Turn off/unplug the eSATA drive
3. Disconnect the eSATA cable from TiVo

*Installing or re-installing the eSATA Drive*

1. Connect the eSATA cable to the eSATA drive and TiVo
2. Plug in/turn on the eSATA drive
3. Plug TiVo in


----------



## brewman

richsadams said:


> Great to hear and thanks for reporting back.
> 
> Did you happen to copy down the actual drive/model number? It would be great to know exactly which designation WD is using for this new drive.
> 
> Cheers again for that! :up:


Unfortunately I didn't record the numbers on the drive itself. I will say it was an OEM drive (not retail).


----------



## jlib

There is no retail boxed version of that WD10EVCS drive.


----------



## bmgoodman

vulture99 said:


> Ah, ok, thanks. That's even better
> BTW, I ordered the WD10EVCS from buy.com today for about $233 shipped (found a 5% coupon online).
> 
> (edit) Heh, bkdtv beat me to it


Is anyone concerned about how well these bare drives are packed for shipping? The retail boxes seem well engineered to prevent damage, but the last bare drive I got from Newegg had a small amount of bubble wrap and some styrofoam peanuts that didn't instill confidence.


----------



## richsadams

bmgoodman said:


> Is anyone concerned about how well these bare drives are packed for shipping? The retail boxes seem well engineered to prevent damage, but the last bare drive I got from Newegg had a small amount of bubble wrap and some styrofoam peanuts that didn't instill confidence.


I've purchased drives from newegg and they've all been fine. But I agree, the bubble wrap/peanuts method is less than desirable. Other vendors take the time to put them in clamshells at least, but newegg's packers seem to be in a pretty big hurry. Again, they all worked or are working, so I guess there's nothing to be concerned with unless you have Hulk Hogan as your UPS driver.


----------



## drhankz

richsadams said:


> I've purchased drives from newegg and they've all been fine. But I agree, the bubble wrap/peanuts method is less than desirable. Other vendors take the time to put them in clamshells at least, but newegg's packers seem to be in a pretty big hurry. Again, they all worked or are working, so I guess there's nothing to be concerned with unless you have Hulk Hogan as your UPS driver.


Drives will take a very large "G" load when they are NOT RUNNING :up:

Therefore bubble wrap is even better than hard plastic.


----------



## richsadams

drhankz said:


> Drives will take a very large "G" load when they are NOT RUNNING :up:
> 
> Therefore bubble wrap is even better than hard plastic.


True enough. As long as the heads are parked it shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## logicman1

richsadams said:


> I've purchased drives from newegg and they've all been fine. But I agree, the bubble wrap/peanuts method is less than desirable. Other vendors take the time to put them in clamshells at least, but newegg's packers seem to be in a pretty big hurry. Again, they all worked or are working, so I guess there's nothing to be concerned with unless you have Hulk Hogan as your UPS driver.


Sounds like Newegg does a better job than ComputerHQ. The only protection was a cardboard "frame" that was supposed to hold the drive centered in the box. No bubble wrap, peanuts, etc. When I opened the box the drive had slipped out of the frame and was free to bounce around. It did not give me the warm fuzzies but it's been running OK since January.


----------



## JayBird

I've bought several hard drives from NewEgg over the years, which have always come wrapped in bubble wrap, but otherwise bouncing around loose in the box. I've had one be DOA, and a couple of others fail prematurely. My conclusion is to not buy drives from NewEgg anymore due to their poor packaging (but I do still buy other parts and stuff from NewEgg that come in retail packaging when they have the lowest price - I have no other issues with NewEgg as a vendor).

At this point I pretty much stick with buying my hard drives from buy.com. I have always found their packaging to be much better than the bubble wrap approach, and I don't think I've never had a drive fail that I bought from buy.com.

I also buy almost exclusively Seagate hard drives. I've seen every other brand of hard drive out there fail in one way or another, but in the past 15 years I have yet to see a Seagate drive fail (other than Seagate notebook drives, but that's another story). However, I'm getting tired of waiting for the 1TB DB35.4 drives to ship so that I can upgrade my TiVo HD to 2 TB (1 TB internal + 1 TB external). The latest deal from buy.com on the 1 TB WD drives is very tempting, even though I'm not much of a fan of WD drives.

And, if you think your UPS/FedEx/DHL/etc. *driver* is hard on your packages, you've never been to a sorting facility and seen what really happens to your packages. I spent a week at a sorting facility once, and the way that packages are thrown onto conveyors, dropped on the floor, thrown into trucks, and just generally handled without care is appaulling. It's really quite amazing that more merchandise isn't completely destroyed in transit. When you know what really happens to your packages, you realize very quickly that NewEgg's packaging is not the way to go. Or at least that's my personal opinion. YMMV.


----------



## orangeboy

Hi,
I had a Bright House tech out to see about some missing channels. Going through the motions, the tech had asked to see the cable cards so he could get the serial number from them. I unplugged the tivo (S3), then the eSATA cable, but never power cycled the external drive (Western Digital My DVR Expander) . It was only after I plugged the eSATA cable back in and then the power cable to the tivo did I think about what I read in the dvr expander documents about the process for temporarily removing the drive. At 2:00/3:00 this morning, the tivo was hung, with no response to the remote (except for finally rebooting due to much button mashing). I don't know if the two are related (no power cycle of HDD, and tivo hang), but I thought I'd mention it.


----------



## rmstone

I'm stuck, and need assistance.


I have a TivoHD, and bought a Seagate 750Gb ST3750840SCE, and the antec mx1 enclosure. 

I've opened up my THD, but HOW am i supposed to connect both Tivo Drives (new external and existing internal) to my PC??

My PC is a fairly crappy 2 year old HP with Sata Drive, but there are not any extra power cables, and I have NO extra sata cables. Am i going to have to slave one of these drives? how do I have all three hard drives connected at once?

"Turn off your computer and connect your internal SATA drive and the new external SATA drive. You can open your computer and connect both with SATA cables, or you can connect them both externally using a pair of SATA->USB adapters. If you are connecting a retail eSATA drive to the SATA port on your PC, you will also need a SATA -> eSATA cable such as the SIIG CB-SA0311-S1 (Buy.com, TheNerds.net, or ProVantage.com) or the PPA Int'l 3848 (Newegg.com)."

To me this seems vague, but so many of you have done this successfully, what am I missing?


----------



## drhankz

richsadams said:


> True enough. As long as the heads are parked it shouldn't be a problem.


Today - I'm upgrading from the 160GB standard 
Internal HD on the TiVo HD to a 1 TB Internal.

I have only one recording on the Internal HD. 
I'm using USB to SATA adapters on my PC
for the process.

Any IDEA how long the MFCopy will take.

Just curious.


----------



## DaveDFW

richsadams said:


> The FAP has gotten very mixed results and consequently has never been recommended for TiVo.
> 
> But glad you were able to get yours working!


I just wanted to add another data point for the FreeAgent Pro. I added the 1tb FAP, which seemed to work fine for a while, But in just one evening's viewing time, my S3 unexpectedly rebooted twice. That had never happened before, it was obviously the FreeAgent Pro or the esata cable, since those were the only new items.

After reading horror stories on the net about the FreeAgent's poor esata interface, I decided it just wasn't worth messing with any longer. Back to Fry's it went.

I replaced it with an Antec MX-1 and an OEM 7200.11 1tb, with which I have had no further reboots.

Just letting everyone know that the FreeAgents are not 100% reliable with the Tivos yet.

It's really too bad, because I thought the whole device was very stylish--I almost wanted to put it out where it could be seen. 

TTYL
David


----------



## bkdtv

rmstone said:


> I'm stuck, and need assistance.
> 
> I have a TivoHD, and bought a Seagate 750Gb ST3750840SCE, and the antec mx1 enclosure.
> 
> I've opened up my THD, but HOW am i supposed to connect both Tivo Drives (new external and existing internal) to my PC??
> 
> My PC is a fairly crappy 2 year old HP with Sata Drive, but there are not any extra power cables, and I have NO extra sata cables. Am i going to have to slave one of these drives? how do I have all three hard drives connected at once?
> 
> "Turn off your computer and connect your internal SATA drive and the new external SATA drive. You can open your computer and connect both with SATA cables, or you can connect them both externally using a pair of SATA->USB adapters. If you are connecting a retail eSATA drive to the SATA port on your PC, you will also need a SATA -> eSATA cable such as the SIIG CB-SA0311-S1 (Buy.com, TheNerds.net, or ProVantage.com) or the PPA Int'l 3848 (Newegg.com)."
> 
> To me this seems vague, but so many of you have done this successfully, what am I missing?


With SATA, there is no such thing as master/slave. If there are no SATA or power connections for you to use inside the computer, then you may need to use an external SATA->USB adapter.

Since you have to remove the internal drive anyway, you may opt to simply replace/upgrade the internal drive. If you just want to replace the internal drive, and don't need to backup the existing recordings, then there is no need to have multiple drives connected at once.



drhankz said:


> Today - I'm upgrading from the 160GB standard
> Internal HD on the TiVo HD to a 1 TB Internal.
> 
> I have only one recording on the Internal HD.
> I'm using USB to SATA adapters on my PC
> for the process.
> 
> Any IDEA how long the MFCopy will take.


I've heard people state ~30 minutes and other people report 6 hours (or more). I suspect it depends on the USB adapter and the USB interface in the computer.

If you want to backup and restore only your software and settings (season passes, wishlists, etc), and not the previous recordings, it should only take a few minutes. For that, you would just do backup and restore, not mfscopy.


----------



## drhankz

I took my ORIGINAL TiVo HD 160 GB hard drive out. 

I backed it up on my PC - just in case. 

I used Mfscopy to copy everything from the 160 GB
drive to my NEW 1 TB Drive. I did not use Mfsupersize.

I did not use Mfsadd after mfscopy because the ending
message said it had already been done. 

I installed the new 1 TB drive in the internal TiVo HD
box. The System boots fine - everything is there even
the single recorded program. 

My PROBLEM is when I go to System Info - it is showing
only 20 hours of recording capacity. 

I'm running TiVo 9.2a-01-2-652

What did I do WRONG?


----------



## lrhorer

You didn't expand the drive. Put it back in your PC and you can do it now.


----------



## bkdtv

Sounds like it did not do mfsadd after all. 

You need to reconnect just the new 1TB drive and run mfsadd.

_Edit: I will remove the "This step is unnecessary if WinMFS already asked you to expand the new drive after the Mfscopy or Restore" from the FAQ because it sounds like WinMFS doesn't automatically expand after a Mfscopy, despite what it says. WinMFS does expand automatically after a Restore._


----------



## drhankz

lrhorer said:


> You didn't expand the drive. Put it back in your PC and you can do it now.


After Mfscopy it said it had already DONE IT.

I have since taken the drive out and manually
Done the Mfsadd and Mfssupersize

It now boots up and recognizes the 1 TB Drive Size.

I guess the first message after Mfscopy was WRONG. 
Oh Well [GRIN] it is working now.

Thanks.


----------



## osoc2

Thanks brewman for verifying the WD10EVCS works as an internal S3 drive! The day you ordered it happened to be the day I was thinking about doing so, but didn't want to be the one to find out it had soft reboot issues.

I just got mine in today and now also have 144 HD hours with no soft reboot problem. It is very quiet, I can barely hear it writing when my ear is less than a foot away and the rest of the house is silent. I think I will be very happy with this upgrade.

The full model number of my drive is WD10EVCS-63ZLB0 
(I think the last digit is zero, but it could be an oh)


----------



## richsadams

osoc2 said:


> Thanks brewman for verifying the WD10EVCS works as an internal S3 drive! The day you ordered it happened to be the day I was thinking about doing so, but didn't want to be the one to find out it had soft reboot issues.
> 
> I just got mine in today and now also have 144 HD hours with no soft reboot problem. It is very quiet, I can barely hear it writing when my ear is less than a foot away and the rest of the house is silent. I think I will be very happy with this upgrade.
> 
> The full model number of my drive is WD10EVCS-63ZLB0
> (I think the last digit is zero, but it could be an oh)


Thanks much for posting the full drive model number. :up:

Two confirmations that the new WD 1TB AV GP drive will work as an internal upgrade for TiVo Series3's (and presumably for TiVo HD's) is great news indeed!

Noted that Buy.com has it for $261.99 w/free shipping. Not a screamin' deal, but not too bad either.


----------



## brewman

osoc2 said:


> Thanks brewman for verifying the WD10EVCS works as an internal S3 drive! The day you ordered it happened to be the day I was thinking about doing so, but didn't want to be the one to find out it had soft reboot issues.
> 
> I just got mine in today and now also have 144 HD hours with no soft reboot problem. It is very quiet, I can barely hear it writing when my ear is less than a foot away and the rest of the house is silent. I think I will be very happy with this upgrade.
> 
> The full model number of my drive is WD10EVCS-63ZLB0
> (I think the last digit is zero, but it could be an oh)


Happy to be of service. No great risk for me - I have other uses for a 1TB drive so if it didn't work out in my S3 I would have found a home for it somewhere else.


----------



## MANOWAR©

Just got my 500GB WD MyBook TiVo edition hooked up and working great. Thanks to everyone who posted all the helpful tips/suggestions and warnings. :up:


----------



## richsadams

MANOWAR©;6068949 said:


> Just got my 500GB WD MyBook TiVo edition hooked up and working great. Thanks to everyone who posted all the helpful tips/suggestions and warnings. :up:


Congrats on all of that new space...just in time for the new season's shows! :up:

BTW, to avoid any confusion for others, the drive you have is Western Digital's *My DVR Expander*. The WD "My Book" drive series will not work as expansion drives for TiVo's.


----------



## charms

richsadams said:


> Congrats on all of that new space...just in time for the new season's shows! :up:
> 
> BTW, to avoid any confusion for others, the drive you have is Western Digital's *My DVR Expander*. The WD "My Book" drive series will not work as expansion drives for TiVo's.


Which is getting a little ridiculous at this point. TiVo's charging a significant premium for what is essentially a rebranding of an existing WD product (with maybe a few firmware changes). They are charging way over the market price for a comparable 500GB eSATA drive and are even 10-15% above the price of the identical MyBook (WDG1SU5000). About time for a price break.

:down:


----------



## jlib

Basically, you are paying for the "support." There are "unsupported" routes that are cheaper. It just depends upon what is most important, convenience or money.


----------



## brewman

charms said:


> Which is getting a little ridiculous at this point. TiVo's charging a significant premium for what is essentially a rebranding of an existing WD product (with maybe a few firmware changes). They are charging way over the market price for a comparable 500GB eSATA drive and are even 10-15% above the price of the identical MyBook (WDG1SU5000). About time for a price break.
> 
> :down:


I don't know that it's true that it's a simple rebranding. The marketing/techonology claim is that drives intended for use in DVR applications are specifically designed for that environment (always on), and that PC drives would have a shorter MTBF in the same environment. Now, this may as simple as slowing the rotational speed to reduce heat, or more costly in terms of components (step motors, bearings, etc). I don't know the truth of any of this, but it certainly sounds plausible. Add to that the reduced economies of scale and the price premium may not be as severe as it seems.


----------



## faerie

richsadams said:


> Thanks much for posting the full drive model number. :up:
> 
> Two confirmations that the new WD 1TB AV GP drive will work as an internal upgrade for TiVo Series3's (and presumably for TiVo HD's) is great news indeed!
> 
> Noted that Buy.com has it for $261.99 w/free shipping. Not a screamin' deal, but not too bad either.


Looks like it's sold out.

Does anyone know what the warranty is like on these? Standard WD warranty? I don't see anything listed on the buy.com website.


----------



## jlib

brewman said:


> I don't know that it's true that it's a simple rebranding. The marketing/technology claim is that drives intended for use in DVR applications are specifically designed for that environment (always on), and that PC drives would have a shorter MTBF in the same environment. Now, this may as simple as slowing the rotational speed to reduce heat, or more costly in terms of components (step motors, bearings, etc). I don't know the truth of any of this, but it certainly sounds plausible. Add to that the reduced economies of scale and the price premium may not be as severe as it seems.


The problem with that line of thought is that they _don't_ have longer MTBF nor are they mechanically different (same bearings, same head mechanism, same platters).

Additionally, all modern drives are designed to be on constantly (assuming proper ventilation). DVR drives _do_ have an enhanced feature set that a DVR manufacturer can take advantage of by designing a device around but since TiVo does not take advantage of any of those firmware enhancements there is no benefit.

There are a few situations where a DVR drive is an advantage but I can only think of two. If you have a Seagate drive the DB35 version is better because the standard drive does not have user accessible acoustic adjustments. If you have a Western Digital GP drive in an S3, the DVR version does not suffer the infamous soft-reboot problem.


----------



## richsadams

faerie said:


> Looks like it's sold out.
> 
> Does anyone know what the warranty is like on these? Standard WD warranty? I don't see anything listed on the buy.com website.


Seems that it's too new to be listed, but it s/b 3 years; the same as the EACS.

http://support.wdc.com/warranty/policy.asp#policy

WD is pretty good about replying to questions here:

http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php


----------



## derspiess

Just wanted to say thanks to the thread originator + everyone else who contributed. I upgraded my new TivoHD to a 500GB Seagate ST3500320AS drive following the instructions on page 1 & it all went like clockwork 

I think I'm only getting about 65 hours of HD space, though, according to the Tivo information screen, so if I get adventurous later on, I may look into whatever might be needed to stretch that out a little bit.


----------



## dwit

derspiess said:


> Just wanted to say thanks to the thread originator + everyone else who contributed. I upgraded my new TivoHD to a 500GB Seagate ST3500320AS drive following the instructions on page 1 & it all went like clockwork
> 
> I think I'm only getting about 65 hours of HD space, though, according to the Tivo information screen, so if I get adventurous later on, I may look into whatever might be needed to stretch that out a little bit.


Sounds like you omitted(missed) the "Supersize" step. This was a distinct step that is not part of any of the other procedural steps. This is assumming you used the winmfs method of upgrading.


----------



## dssxxxx

Turned THD off......connected eSata cable....powered on eSata....powered on THD...reboot. Now have 86 hours. Using DVR Expander. Easiest upgrade I have ever done. Entire process.........approximately 15-20 minutes.

Thanks to everyones comments in this thread.


----------



## Eccles

I installed a DVR Expander on my new THD last night, too. On the first reboot after pairing the device, I got nothing but a black screen at the point where you would normally get the intro video. I cycled power on the THD, and it came up fine on the next reboot. A moment of minor concern, but everything appears OK now. Mmmm, space!


----------



## derspiess

dwit said:


> Sounds like you omitted(missed) the "Supersize" step. This was a distinct step that is not part of any of the other procedural steps. This is assumming you used the winmfs method of upgrading.


I used winmfs but did not see a "supersize" step in the instructions on page 1. I did get a message toward the end of the process mentioning that I had additional space & asked if I wanted to use it (duh, of course!). I had read about 'supersize' when looking through the thread a few days ago but assumed that last step was it. I guess it wasn't.

I'll go back & review everything. Not sure if it's worth bothering with now because I'd probably lose some recordings if I re-did everything.


----------



## robostock

> Looks like it's sold out.


Buy.com has it back in stock for $244.99. I just picked one up and I used the "Revolution Card" to take an additional $50 off. Also, the Antec MX-1 case has a $30 rebate at Amazon. All said and done, it ended up about $35 more than the My DVR price. :up:

I was about to buy the WD My DVR expander, but I'm going to take a chance on this "non-supported" drive.[/QUOTE]


----------



## andy_hd

derspiess said:


> I used winmfs but did not see a "supersize" step in the instructions on page 1. I did get a message toward the end of the process mentioning that I had additional space & asked if I wanted to use it (duh, of course!). I had read about 'supersize' when looking through the thread a few days ago but assumed that last step was it. I guess it wasn't.
> 
> I'll go back & review everything. Not sure if it's worth bothering with now because I'd probably lose some recordings if I re-did everything.


I, too, did not 'supersize' on initial expand. I didn't miss it -- I just didn't want one more possible source of error. But it turns out that you can 'supersize' at any time. I did so a few weeks later. Didn't lose any recordings -- and increased my available space from 131 Hrs to 144 Hrs.

You don't have to 're-do' everything. You do need to pull the drive again, but then it is just selecting the drive and turning on 'supersize' for it. Takes less than a minute once the the drive is hooked up to the computer.


----------



## lrd

Hello, just upgraded my internal 160gb to WD10EVCS 1GB using the most current MFS.

In MFS, selected the original drive as the source A drive and the new drive as the destination A drive. MFS recognized both drives and completed the transfer successfully. At the end it asked if I wanted to expand, I said yes.

Put the drive back in, hooked everything up, and the green light on the front panel & fan came on, and a black screen on the correct DVR AV channel. The Tivo start up video did not happen, nor could I pull up any picture, and the Tivo button does not work. Also the wireless adapter does not turn on when plugged into the USB port.

Any ideas?? 

Thank you in advance


----------



## dwit

lrd said:


> Hello, just upgraded my internal 160gb to WD10EVCS 1GB using the most current MFS.
> 
> In MFS, selected the original drive as the source A drive and the new drive as the destination A drive. MFS recognized both drives and completed the transfer successfully. At the end it asked if I wanted to expand, I said yes.
> 
> Put the drive back in, hooked everything up, and the green light on the front panel & fan came on, and a black screen on the correct DVR AV channel. The Tivo start up video did not happen, nor could I pull up any picture, and the Tivo button does not work. Also the wireless adapter does not turn on when plugged into the USB port.
> 
> Any ideas??
> 
> Thank you in advance


Reinstall the original Tivo drive to check for proper operation.

If every thing works properly with the original drive, chances are you did something wrong during the upgrade.

Also, run the WD diagnostics utility on the new drive to see if if checks out as problem free.


----------



## lrd

dwit said:


> Reinstall the original Tivo drive to check for proper operation.
> 
> If every thing works properly with the original drive, chances are you did something wrong during the upgrade.
> 
> Also, run the WD diagnostics utility on the new drive to see if if checks out as problem free.


OOPS.. I was interuppted when I was installing the drive and forgot to plug in the new hard drive in the Tivo..DOH!

Do have another question though..for a 1TB..how many more hours will I get going back in and supersizing? (Did the expansion at the end of the transfer, but did not supersize) Just not sure if it was enough extra hours to warrant pulling it back out of the Tivo..

Thanks!


----------



## lrd

lrd said:


> OOPS.. I was interuppted when I was installing the drive and forgot to plug in the new hard drive in the Tivo..DOH!
> 
> Do have another question though..for a 1TB..how many more hours will I get going back in and supersizing? (Did the expansion at the end of the transfer, but did not supersize) Just not sure if it was enough extra hours to warrant pulling it back out of the Tivo..
> 
> Thanks!


OK IGNORE this question as well..I just checked and have 131 HD hours, so I'm assuming it will go to 144 as noted a few posts before mine..

GOING back to sleep now...


----------



## richsadams

lrd said:


> I just checked and have 131 HD hours, so I'm assuming it will go to 144 as noted a few posts before mine..
> 
> GOING back to sleep now...


That's correct, 144 hours. And it's very easy to do providing you want to R&R your drive once more.










Congrats on a job well done...even if it took a little "extra effort".


----------



## faerie

richsadams said:


> Seems that it's too new to be listed, but it s/b 3 years; the same as the EACS.
> 
> http://support.wdc.com/warranty/policy.asp#policy
> 
> WD is pretty good about replying to questions here:
> 
> http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php


Back in stock. limited quantity though. Order now!


----------



## bkdtv

I added the bit on supersize to the instructions in the first post.


----------



## ThAbtO

Here is a USB hard drive adaptor for SATA/IDE drives, if anyone needs to find 1.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2329300&CatId=470


----------



## robostock

ThAbtO said:


> Here is a USB hard drive adaptor for SATA/IDE drives, if anyone needs to find 1.
> 
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2329300&CatId=470


This is also a great and VERY sturdy HD adaptor.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153066&Tpk=blacx

One of my internal HD was going bad and I was able to easily transfer the files to another PC.


----------



## b_scott

i installed the MyDVR expander last night - had the black screen problem mentioned earlier. i just unplugged and replugged and it ended up going through just fine. odd.

86 hours HD!


----------



## richsadams

robostock said:


> This is also a great and VERY sturdy HD adaptor.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153066&Tpk=blacx
> 
> One of my internal HD was going bad and I was able to easily transfer the files to another PC.


Great find. Thanks for that! :up:


----------



## ccoulson

The original FAQ states "The new "plug and play" eSATA expansion support does not work if you upgrade the built-in drive on the TiVoHD and Series3."

What constitutes an "upgraded" built-in drive? I replaced my original drive with one from WeaKnees - which comes pre-partitioned and pre-installed with Tivo s/w. Does this preclude me from using eSATA expansion on my S3?


----------



## moxie1617

It excludes you from a plug and play expansion. You can still expand but you have to pull the drive and use the tools described in the FAQ. (III.10)


----------



## Acropora

Anyone figure out how to quiet a drive using mfs? 
I used usb to esata connectors to do the upgrade to a 1tb wd but now there's a cricket clicking in my s3..


----------



## bkdtv

Acropora said:


> Anyone figure out how to quiet a drive using mfs?
> I used usb to esata connectors to do the upgrade to a 1tb wd but now there's a cricket clicking in my s3..


You can use the Hitachi Tools CD, as per Section III, FAQ #29.

It can also be done with the MFSLive Linux boot CD. It cannot be done in WinMFS.


----------



## HPD

Ad me to the list. I just used WinMFS to turn my Series 3 into a 2 Terabyte Tivo. Thank you to the creator of WinMFS. It was easy, but it would be nice if you fixed it so that the GUI updates its progress. Many times during the 1.25 hours I was tempted to abort because it looked like it was hanging.


----------



## richsadams

HPD said:


> Add me to the list. I just used WinMFS to turn my Series 3 into a 2 Terabyte Tivo. Thank you to the creator of WinMFS. It was easy, but it would be nice if you fixed it so that the GUI updates its progress. Many times during the 1.25 hours I was tempted to abort because it looked like it was hanging.


Congrats on all of that new space!

Spike (the creator of WinMFS) has noted the issue with the program's appearance that it may be hanging a while back and IIRC said he was working on it. In the meantime he recommended having the task manager (or even better Process Explorer) open which will allow users to see that it's still active.

Enjoy! :up:


----------



## derspiess

andy_hd said:


> You don't have to 're-do' everything. You do need to pull the drive again, but then it is just selecting the drive and turning on 'supersize' for it. Takes less than a minute once the the drive is hooked up to the computer.


Excellent-- I'll give that a shot tonight. Thanks!

Just out of curiosity, what does Supersize actually 'do' to the drive to add space?


----------



## sga000

The sata-to-usb adapter referred to in the first post is a Vantec brand. Its description on their site says "currently supports up to 500gb". Is this an old description, or is it something I should worry about if I'm going to get a 1TB drive for my Tivo HD? Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

derspiess said:


> Excellent-- I'll give that a shot tonight. Thanks!
> 
> Just out of curiosity, what does Supersize actually 'do' to the drive to add space?


According to Spike at MFSLive.org, adding "supersize" frees up extra reserved space used for storing tivoclips. More here.


----------



## ccoulson

> Do I lose any recordings or settings when an eSATA drive is removed?
> 
> Programs recorded after the eSATA drive is added are lost when you remove the drive. But you do not lose your season passes, wishlists, and other settings when you remove the drive.


Another question from the original FAQ - does the above really apply to *all* recordings since the eSATA expansion was added, or only those recordings with some/all data stored on the eSATA drive?


----------



## richsadams

ccoulson said:


> Another question from the original FAQ - does the above really apply to *all* recordings since the eSATA expansion was added, or only those recordings with some/all data stored on the eSATA drive?


Good question. I actually have had a few recordings that were made _after _I added an eSATA drive (and removed it) remain. All (3 IIRC) were SD recordings. But for the most part, everything was and would be lost.

After adding an eSATA drive, recordings are "striped" meaning information can be/is included on both the internal and expansion drive. TiVo software basically handles both drives as one large drive. I remember people trying to listen to their TiVo's and the eSATA drive during recordings to see if they could tell which one or if both were working. I don't think that "scientific experiment" ever proved fruitful.


----------



## esb1981

Okay, so I'm taking the plunge and upgrading to the internal 750gb Seagate drive. I'm afraid that I'll mess this up and my wife will be very unhappy with me if we lose Tivo functionality or recordings! So I just have a few questions for advice.

If I want to save my recordings - typically we only have about 10-15 recordings on the drive that we would definitely need to keep - what is my best bet? Should I use Tivo-to-Go? Should I connect via USB/SATA adapter and use the MFScopy tool? My concern is the USB/SATA adapter will take way too long to transfer the data, and the TTG will cause problems in the transfers since I've seen that happen a few times. If I go straight SATA connection with the drives to the inside of the computer (not sure if I can since I haven't opened the PC yet), how long would it take to transfer everything?

Do I have to "clear and delete" the entire drive if I elect to use the standard backup/copy that does not transfer the recordings and settings?

Any advice would be appreciated. Reading this thread it seems like it's doable, but then again I have a tendency to screw things up!


----------



## peternelson

I installed a 1TB Western Digital WD10EVCS in my new TiVoHD over the weekend and had no problems. I bought the drive from Buy.com, and it arrived packaged very well. I believe the drive sold for about $245 at the time, but I got the drive for just over $200 with shipping after a $50 discount for opening up a "Revolution" credit card through Buy.com.

I used WinMFS as described at the bottom of the first post in this thread using "MfsBackup" to initially backup the original drive, and then "MfsCopy" to copy it to the new drive. I also ran "MfsAdd" and "MfsSuperSize" after the copying process. Since I had no saved recordings, the process went really quickly.

Everything worked well, and I've now got 144 HD hours reported!


----------



## richsadams

esb1981 said:


> Okay, so I'm taking the plunge and upgrading to the internal 750gb Seagate drive. I'm afraid that I'll mess this up and my wife will be very unhappy with me if we lose Tivo functionality or recordings! So I just have a few questions for advice.
> 
> If I want to save my recordings - typically we only have about 10-15 recordings on the drive that we would definitely need to keep - what is my best bet? Should I use Tivo-to-Go? Should I connect via USB/SATA adapter and use the MFScopy tool? My concern is the USB/SATA adapter will take way too long to transfer the data, and the TTG will cause problems in the transfers since I've seen that happen a few times. If I go straight SATA connection with the drives to the inside of the computer (not sure if I can since I haven't opened the PC yet), how long would it take to transfer everything?
> 
> Do I have to "clear and delete" the entire drive if I elect to use the standard backup/copy that does not transfer the recordings and settings?
> 
> Any advice would be appreciated. Reading this thread it seems like it's doable, but then again I have a tendency to screw things up!


Bottom line is that unless you wipe your original TiVo hard drive, you'll still have all of your recordings. I always recommend putting the original drive on the shelf as a back-up JIC. Worst case you can always pop your original drive back in to watch them (or if you have to send your box back to TiVo if something else fails while it's under the one-year parts warranty).

Your best bet is to connect your drive(s) via SATA to your computer's mother board. Most MB's (within the last five years) have SATA connectors. That will speed up the process using MFSCopy. How long it takes all depends on how many recordings you have, SD Vs HD, their length, etc. It may only take an hour or less...might be several hours. If you use USB it will of course take longer.

You do not have to clear and/or delete anything when using WinMFS to create a larger drive (copying existing content or not). All of your settings including cable card info, SP's, etc. will be transferred over.


----------



## esb1981

Thanks Rich!


----------



## sga000

sga000 said:


> The sata-to-usb adapter referred to in the first post is a Vantec brand. Its description on their site says "currently supports up to 500gb". Is this an old description, or is it something I should worry about if I'm going to get a 1TB drive for my Tivo HD? Thanks!


Sorry to submit this post again only a few hours after I first posted it. But Rich seems to always answer things quickly, so I'm wondering if this might be a dumb question. I hope not! I'd like to get started with ordering and installing a 1TB WD10EVCS into my Tivo HD. But I'd really like to know if this 500gb description about the Vantec sata-to-usb adapter is accurate, and if so, it would not be useable with the 1TB drive. Can anyone help? Thanks again.


----------



## goodbar

peternelson said:


> I installed a 1TB Western Digital WD10EVCS in my new TiVoHD over the weekend and had no problems. I bought the drive from Buy.com, and it arrived packaged very well. I believe the drive sold for about $245 at the time, but I got the drive for just over $200 with shipping after a $50 discount for opening up a "Revolution" credit card through Buy.com.
> 
> I used WinMFS as described at the bottom of the first post in this thread using "MfsBackup" to initially backup the original drive, and then "MfsCopy" to copy it to the new drive. I also ran "MfsAdd" and "MfsSuperSize" after the copying process. Since I had no saved recordings, the process went really quickly.
> 
> Everything worked well, and I've now got 144 HD hours reported!


I did the same last weekend. I also bought a 2 port Promise SATA300 TX2plus PCI card from NewEgg and a screwdriver set from Lowes (HD uses T10 (case, HDD frame) and T15 (HDD frame to HDD) torx screws). Buying the Promise card was about the same as buying 2 USB/SATA connectors, and much faster.

After doing the Add at the end of the copy, select the new drive, then select Supersize. It does not look like anything happened, but TIVO shows 144 hours HD.

I did not wind up using the Hitachi tools, but I cannot hear the drive in the TIVO. My 160 GB drive was almost full, but the copy finished in 1 or 2 hours. As stated elsewhere, use Task Manager to see I/O Read and Write bytes if you are concerned whether MFS is running. Good luck all! It is pretty awesome not worrying whether or not to record PGA Golf for 5 hours on Sunday and then 3 hours of hockey that night, both in HD. Simple with 144 hours available.


----------



## jlib

richsadams said:


> Your best bet is to connect your drive(s) via eSATA to your computer's mother board. Most MB's (within the last five years) have eSATA connectors.


Of course Rich meant to type SATA (as in from the bare SATA drive to the SATA connector on the motherboard).


----------



## gspoto

I just bought a VOX 750 GB eSATA HD. The price was way to good to pass up ($150 at Microcenter through the end of the month.)
I intend to use this with my TiVo. The way I see it I have three options:

Option 1, Simple: Plug it into my media server PC which is hardwired to the same router/switch my TiVo HD is attached to. Then I can download everything Via the TiVo desktop software and play it back whenever I want.

Option 2, Harder: Sync up the eSATA with my TiVo HD using MFS and use it as expanded storage on my TiVo HD.

Option 3, Hardest: Rip it appart just for the drive, and use it as a replacement for my existing TiVo drive via MFSsopy.

So option 2 is the way I want to go because it is the most user friendly. The VOX came with a eSATA cable, has an independant power supply and an on/off switch (which I believe is what everybody says you should have).

Questions I have:
Has there been any success using Vox external drives with TiVoHD?
I know that the eSATA cable has been a problem for many people... should I suspect the supplied cable to be kinda crappy and buy a good one now?

Thanks for all your support.


----------



## jlib

gspoto said:


> ...Has there been any success using Vox external drives with TiVoHD?...


 It is pretty much an unknown quantity. Can you easily peek inside and discover the actual bare drive that is used?


----------



## jlib

sga000 said:


> ... I'd really like to know if this 500gb [limitation] with the Vantec sata-to-usb adapter is accurate, and if so, it would not be usable with the 1TB drive.


Often such limitations are due to the fact that that was the then current largest drive that could be tested when the product was originally released. For example, Vantec's website says the CB-ISATAU2 supports 750GB now, not 500GB. It has LBA-48 addressing so there should not be a practical limitation. The question of whether they have just not gotten around to testing it with current drive models or if there is some other limitation coming into play should probably be addressed to technical support at vantecusa.com just to be sure. Also note that PCI eSATA cards are pretty cheap now and the USB adapter method really only makes sense now on a laptop.


----------



## sga000

jlib said:


> Often such limitations are due to the fact that that was the then current largest drive that could be tested when the product was originally released. For example, Vantec's website says the CB-ISATAU2 supports 750GB now, not 500GB. It has LBA-48 addressing so there should not be a practical limitation. The question of whether they have just not gotten around to testing it with current drive models or if there is some other limitation coming into play should probably be addressed to technical support at vantecusa.com just to be sure. Also note that PCI eSATA cards are pretty cheap now and the USB adapter method really only makes sense now on a laptop.


Thanks, jlib. I had looked at the "Product Flyer", and it said 500gb, while the "Features" does say 750gb. I asked tech support, and sure enough, they said 1TB shouldn't be a problem, but their information just has not been updated lately. The reason I'm looking at this is because I only have a laptop at my disposal....no desktop in over a decade! I'm thinking I'll only be getting ONE of these adapters, doing a backup and restore (changing disks obviously), no need to copy any programs. It may be a more cumbersome way of doing this, but I just can't see spending more for TWO of these adapters that will probably only be used once. Thanks again for the advice.


----------



## richsadams

jlib said:


> Of course Rich meant to type SATA (as in from the bare SATA drive to the SATA connector on the motherboard).


D'oh!


----------



## richsadams

gspoto said:


> I just bought a VOX 750 GB eSATA HD. The price was way to good to pass up ($150 at Microcenter through the end of the month.)
> I intend to use this with my TiVo. The way I see it I have three options:
> 
> Option 1, Simple: Plug it into my media server PC which is hardwired to the same router/switch my TiVo HD is attached to. Then I can download everything Via the TiVo desktop software and play it back whenever I want.
> 
> Option 2, Harder: Sync up the eSATA with my TiVo HD using MFS and use it as expanded storage on my TiVo HD.
> 
> Option 3, Hardest: Rip it appart just for the drive, and use it as a replacement for my existing TiVo drive via MFSsopy.
> 
> So option 2 is the way I want to go because it is the most user friendly. The VOX came with a eSATA cable, has an independant power supply and an on/off switch (which I believe is what everybody says you should have).
> 
> Questions I have:
> Has there been any success using Vox external drives with TiVoHD?
> I know that the eSATA cable has been a problem for many people... should I suspect the supplied cable to be kinda crappy and buy a good one now?
> 
> Thanks for all your support.


AFAIK you'd be a "TiVo Pioneer" using the Vox drive. According to their web site it uses a WD HDD. I guess my concern would be two things; noise (which you can mitigate by adjusting the AAM with the Hitachi Feature Tool). And heat since the drive will be running 24/7 and the enclosure doesn't have a cooling fan. Heat can cause data corruption and reboots.

If you decide to use it as an expansion drive I'd use the supplied cable and see how it goes. You can always order a replacement from the recommended list on the first post of this thread.

FWIW/my two-cents..if you're going to open the TiVo up and pull the drive, I'd just replace the internal drive. If you find that it's not enough space go ahead and add an expansion drive later (when prices are even cheaper). TiVo HD's 160GB drive is just too small (20 hours of HD recordings) to leave inside if you're going to open it up anyway...IMHO.

The only downside to your situation is that opening up the Vox enclosure to get your new drive out might void the warranty. However if it's just a matter of removing some screws (and not destroying the enclosure) that's what I'd do. If you need to return it one of these days, just pop it back in for a warranty return. It'll also make a nice case in which to save your original TiVo hard drive. Just don't plug it in and erase it!


----------



## gspoto

Quote: Can you easily peek inside and discover the actual bare drive that is used?


Unfortunatly.. No. The thing is great big sealed up brick. From the exterior I can see no screw holes. There is a vulcanized rubber seal that runs around the exterior. At one point there is a small (3/4 inch) section of rubber that sort of lcks the rest in place. removing that reveals a "warrenty void if removed" sticker. not that I usualy pay attentio to such things... but in general this enclosure is "difficult".


----------



## HPD

esb1981 said:


> Okay, so I'm taking the plunge and upgrading to the internal 750gb Seagate drive. If I want to save my recordings - typically we only have about 10-15 recordings on the drive that we would definitely need to keep - what is my best bet?


Mine had 31 recordings and the 250 GB Series 3 drive was nearly full. I added up the hours on the Now playing list. It was 34 hours.

To copy everything to the first one terabyte drive took an hour and a quarter. Preparing the second external terabyte drive took just a few seconds after it was hooked to my computer.


----------



## HPD

richsadams said:


> Congrats on all of that new space!
> 
> Spike (the creator of WinMFS) has noted the issue with the program's appearance that it may be hanging a while back and IIRC said he was working on it. In the meantime he recommended having the task manager (or even better Process Explorer) open which will allow users to see that it's still active.
> 
> Enjoy! :up:


Thanks to the first post on this thread I highlighted WinMFS in task manager and watched it bob up and down. It reported using about 0-4 percent of the CPU so I thought things might not be working correctly. My patience was rewarded.

If the GUI was fixed it would be nicer but I still thank Spike for his work and making it available to guys like me.


----------



## gspoto

richsadams said:


> I guess my concern would be two things; noise (which you can mitigate by adjusting the AAM with the Hitachi Feature Tool). And heat since the drive will be running 24/7 and the enclosure doesn't have a cooling fan. Heat can cause data corruption and reboots.


My Entertainment center is generally loud enough that I don't have to worry about the noise... the heat is a bit of a worry now that you point it out to me. I think I'll do a plug in test for a few dozen hours to see what kind of heat it puts out.



richsadams said:


> If you decide to use it as an expansion drive I'd use the supplied cable and see how it goes. You can always order a replacement from the recommended list on the first post of this thread.


I will need a SATA to eSATA adaptor when running MFS, right?



richsadams said:


> FWIW/my two-cents..if you're going to open the TiVo up and pull the drive, I'd just replace the internal drive. If you find that it's not enough space go ahead and add an expansion drive later (when prices are even cheaper).


For ease of use you are probably right... but the HDD enclose is a beast to open it looks like... and basicaly even trying voids the warrenty. Plus I am a whore for space... And even though that 160 GB internal drive is anemic it still holds more then the 750 alone.


----------



## esb1981

HPD said:


> Mine had 31 recordings and the 250 GB Series 3 drive was nearly full. I added up the hours on the Now playing list. It was 34 hours.
> 
> To copy everything to the first one terabyte drive took an hour and a quarter. Preparing the second external terabyte drive took just a few seconds after it was hooked to my computer.


Thanks HPD, this is good to know and encouraging!


----------



## richsadams

gspoto said:


> My Entertainment center is generally loud enough that I don't have to worry about the noise... the heat is a bit of a worry now that you point it out to me. I think I'll do a plug in test for a few dozen hours to see what kind of heat it puts out.


I'd think I'd still run the Hitachi Feature Tool to reduce the automatic acoustical management to 128 if possible. The spec says that the drive's seek noise is 33dBA which is pretty loud. By comparison their GP drives are around 24dBA...all depends on your situation of course.

Heat-wise it may be fine as is as long as it's kept in a well-ventilated location. It's aluminum case will certainly dissipate heat better than plastic. Some folks have invested in an external USB powered fan...laptop coolers like this one seem to be popular.



gspoto said:


> I will need a SATA to eSATA adaptor when running MFS, right?


Yes, if you can connect your drive directly to your PC's MB that would be your best bet.



gspoto said:


> For ease of use you are probably right... but the HDD enclose is a beast to open it looks like... and basicaly even trying voids the warrenty. Plus I am a whore for space... And even though that 160 GB internal drive is anemic it still holds more then the 750 alone.


Understood. In that case it should work fine.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes. It'll be good info to know if this is another option to add to bkdtv's "approved" list. :up:


----------



## richsadams

gspoto said:


> Quote: Can you easily peek inside and discover the actual bare drive that is used?


The specs for the VOX V1 750GB eSATA/USB 2.0 External Hard Drive say it is using Western Digital's WD7500AAKS HDD.


----------



## jlib

gspoto said:


> ...I will need a SATA to eSATA adaptor when running MFS, right?...


Since opening the case to get the SATA drive out appears difficult, then you will need to go eSATA to the SATA of your USB adapter.


----------



## chf

Does anyone know if this will work as an external drive for my TivoHD?

Thanks


----------



## b_scott

nothing works as external without hacking, except the MyDVR WD 500GB drive.


----------



## chf

That's true. I was more interested if anyone had any experience with the Cavalry product.
The price is really cheap, so I tend to distrust it.

Thanks!


----------



## MungoJerrie

chf said:


> I was more interested if anyone had any experience with the Cavalry product.


Check the latest (3/13) review on buy.com - poster says it's been running great in a TivoHD for over a month! YMMV


----------



## chf

Thanks, I missed that one. I only saw SA and DirectTV ones when I scanned the reviews.


----------



## dwit

chf said:


> Buy.com selling 1TB Cavalry dual interface USB 2 & eSATA $190 after $37 rebate
> 
> Does anyone know if this will work as an external drive for my TivoHD?
> 
> Thanks


I'm really considering this drive. Especially with the extra $20 Google check out discount some have received(linked to email address). Seems like no matter how much space I have, I still want more.

Also picked up the *Antec MX1 enclosure for $47 - $30 = $17AR* for when/if the Cavalry enclosure dies.

Anyone know the *exact *total supersized capacity of a Tivo HD with 1TB internal and 1 TB external? SD and HD?


----------



## Eccles

dwit said:


> Anyone know the *exact *total supersized capacity of a Tivo HD with 1TB internal and 1 TB external? SD and HD?


Exactly one sh1tload!

Seriously though, the capacity varies with the material recorded - there _is _no exact number.


----------



## cab2

Has anyone else noticed a decrease in their available recording hours as shown on the info screen when you have an external drive attached?

I have a FAP 500 drive attached to my tivo. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I think the info screen used to show something on the order of 70 some hours of HD possible. I notice this week, it's showing 32 hours of HD possible. I know the 32 is not right? But I also seem to have less recordings than before. I think something changed between last Thursday or Friday, and now. Maybe it's just me, but wondering if anyone else has experianced this. I did do a reboot of the tivo and FAP with no change in the reported capacity.

tia
cab


----------



## dwit

Eccles said:


> Exactly one sh1tload!
> 
> Seriously though, the capacity varies with the material recorded - there _is _no exact number.


Thanks. Not too helpful. I guess I should have phrased it, the "exact reported maximum capacity".

Anyone else know the *reported, maximum *capacities?

Just curious. A 1 TB internal is 1368/144 SD/HD.

So with external added, it will probably be a little more than double. I've seen it mentioned here in the forums before.


----------



## sga000

I have a 1TB disk ordered, and I was thinking I'd use it internally. Now I'm not sure, I may want to use it as esata, and I wanted to see if I understand this correctly. I want to be sure that picking one way over the other doesn't preclude changing my mind.

If I do the internal way first and change my mind later, is it just a matter of removing that new drive from the Tivo box, getting the old drive off the shelf, then doing the esata expansion procedure as originally described in the first post? I'm not concerned about losing any programs that might be on the new drive.

Vice versa, if I do the esata expansion first and change my mind later, could I just disconnect the esata drive (and confirm that I really want to do this when Tivo asks me), then go through the steps in the first post for doing the backup/restore from the original to the new? Again, no worries about existing programs.

It's a little hard for me to make this choice. I hate giving up the extra space, but on the other hand, I like not having an extra box hanging outside the Tivo. If I can change my mind later, it would make me not worry as much about which way I pick here at the start.


----------



## ThAbtO

Think I have found a bargain here.

http://www.memorylabs.net/wd101tbtseat.html


----------



## dwit

ThAbtO said:


> Think I have found a bargain here.
> 
> http://www.memorylabs.net/wd101tbtseat.html


Seen better. Wouldn't really want to deal with a place that charges $29.15 for shipping. They even charge an *additional $5 for insurance.* I'd certainly check the ratings on this vendor.

Subtotal: 215.00 
Shipping: *29.10 * 
Tax: 0.00 
*Total: 244.10 *


----------



## dwit

sga000 said:


> I have a 1TB disk ordered, and I was thinking I'd use it internally. Now I'm not sure, I may want to use it as esata, and I wanted to see if I understand this correctly. I want to be sure that picking one way over the other doesn't preclude changing my mind.
> 
> If I do the internal way first and change my mind later, is it just a matter of removing that new drive from the Tivo box, getting the old drive off the shelf, then doing the esata expansion procedure as originally described in the first post? I'm not concerned about losing any programs that might be on the new drive.
> 
> Vice versa, if I do the esata expansion first and change my mind later, could I just disconnect the esata drive (and confirm that I really want to do this when Tivo asks me), then go through the steps in the first post for doing the backup/restore from the original to the new? Again, no worries about existing programs.
> 
> It's a little hard for me to make this choice. I hate giving up the extra space, but on the other hand, I like not having an extra box hanging outside the Tivo. If I can change my mind later, it would make me not worry as much about which way I pick here at the start.


You can always change you mind later and just go back to the original drive.

If you have the S3 model, I believe you can avoid opening the Tivo or bothering with a pc by merely adding the drive as an eSATA. Of course you could also prep the new drive in a pc and install internally (except the known problematic WD 00JB model).

If you have the Tivo HD, since however you would use the new drive, you would have to connect both drives to the pc to prepare the new drive, you may as well install the new drive internally. You would then just shelve the original drive. You could reinstall the original drive anytime to restore the Tivo to it's original condition at any time.

So for the Tivo HD, the decision is easy; internal.

If you have the S3 and don't want much bother; external.


----------



## sga000

dwit said:


> You can always change you mind later and just go back to the original drive.
> 
> If you have the S3 model, I believe you can avoid opening the Tivo or bothering with a pc by merely adding the drive as an eSATA. Of course you could also prep the new drive in a pc and install internally (except the known problematic WD 00JB model).
> 
> If you have the Tivo HD, since however you would use the new drive, you would have to connect both drives to the pc to prepare the new drive, you may as well install the new drive internally. You would then just shelve the original drive. You could reinstall the original drive anytime to restore the Tivo to it's original condition at any time.
> 
> So for the Tivo HD, the decision is easy; internal.
> 
> If you have the S3 and don't want much bother; external.


Thanks, dwit. I forgot to mention that I have Tivo HD. Mostly, I just wanted to be sure I could always choose the other method, no matter which one I choose first.

I can see what you mean about the Tivo HD decision being easier because the Tivo has to be opened regardless. But that means sacrificing that extra space on the original disk. I guess no one worries about that small amount. Of course, I suppose I could always put the original disk in an esata enclosure and attach it externally to get that extra space, right? Is there any reason that this would be a "better order", i.e. the 1TB disk internal and the original disk external, rather than the original internal and the 1TB external? If I decided I didn't like having an external drive later, I could always disconnect the smaller external, and still have the big one internal, without any reopening of the box. Have I said anything incorrect here?

Oh, I think you may say that I will have messed up the original by using it as an external, and it's a good idea to keep it as a backup with no changes.


----------



## richsadams

sga000 said:


> Thanks, dwit. I forgot to mention that I have Tivo HD. Mostly, I just wanted to be sure I could always choose the other method, no matter which one I choose first.
> 
> I can see what you mean about the Tivo HD decision being easier because the Tivo has to be opened regardless. But that means sacrificing that extra space on the original disk. I guess no one worries about that small amount. Of course, I suppose I could always put the original disk in an esata enclosure and attach it externally to get that extra space, right? Is there any reason that this would be a "better order", i.e. the 1TB disk internal and the original disk external, rather than the original internal and the 1TB external? If I decided I didn't like having an external drive later, I could always disconnect the smaller external, and still have the big one internal, without any reopening of the box. Have I said anything incorrect here?
> 
> Oh, I think you may say that I will have messed up the original by using it as an external, and it's a good idea to keep it as a backup with no changes.


Your best bet is to install the 1TB disk internally and shelve the original as dwit suggests unless you really need that "extra" 20 HD hour capacity. No matter how you look at it, adding another drive to the mix also adds another potential failure point.

Once you've upgraded the internal drive on a TiVo HD (or a Series3) you'll need to run WinMFS to marry any expansion drive to the internal drive. That involves removing the upgraded internal drive, connecting it to a PC along with the expansion drive and correctly configuring the two drives. IMHO if you have to go through that trouble later, it makes more sense to use something larger than a 160GB drive. In addition, you are correct...if you use the existing internal drive as an external drive you can no longer use it as an internal drive again without re-imaging it either with the original files or Instant Cake.

Plus if you used the original drive as an external drive and, as you suggest, decide that you don't like it and disconnect it, you will lose _all _of the existing recordings on your TiVo.

I agree with everyone else; keep it simple and go with the 1TB internal (and yes, put your original drive on the shelf). If that's not enough space for you buy another 1TB expansion drive later...when they're even cheaper. :up:


----------



## richsadams

ThAbtO said:


> Think I have found a bargain here.
> 
> http://www.westerndigital.dk/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=388


Your link is for the older WD10EACS which is only applicable for use as an internal or expansion drive in the TiVo HD or as an expansion drive for the Series3. It will _not _work as an internal hard drive upgrade in the Series3 due to a soft reboot failure issue.

The recommended drive on this thread's first post is Western Digital's AV-GP WD10EVCS DVR dedicated hard drive - for all TiVo HD and Series3 internal upgrade and expansion drive applications. At the current price of $244.99 w/free shipping from buy.com it's a better deal.


----------



## jlib

sga000 said:


> ...Mostly, I just wanted to be sure I could always choose the other method, no matter which one I choose first.


The decision is easy. No one regrets doing the internal upgrade first. Many regret doing the external upgrade first (because they will lose their recordings if they subsequently upgrade the internal drive). So, get the very largest drive you can afford, even if it is bigger than you think you need, and replace the internal drive. Still not enough space? No problem, just add an external drive.


----------



## robostock

I'm about upgrade my S3 with the WD AV-GP WD10EVCS and was reading the excellent directions by BKDTV. :up:

Maybe those who have upgrade their internal S3 can clarify a few questions I have. In the directions it states:



> In WinMFS, select the 'Backup' option to create a backup. Save the file to your hard drive for backup purposes.
> 
> You don't use this now. It's a backup for future use, should anything ever go wrong.


Is this a large file? Is the file size direct reflection of the amount of space taken by your stock drive? For example if your drive is 90% full, will the file be about 225GB?

and this one



> In WinMFS, designate the original drive, selected as 'A,' as the Source Drive A and the new drive as Destination Drive A.


If the "Source Drive is A" and the new drive is "Destination Drive A" how can the source and destination be both A? 

I'm sure the directions are correct but I just need a little bit of clarification.

Thank you for your support!


----------



## robostock

jlib said:


> The decision is easy. No one regrets doing the internal upgrade first. Many regret doing the external upgrade first (because they will lose their recordings if they subsequently upgrade the internal drive). So, get the very largest drive you can afford, even if it is bigger than you think you need, and replace the internal drive. Still not enough space? No problem, just add an external drive.


This makes a lot of sense. I was going to upgrade externally for the ease of it and the few extra hours of space. But, what won me over to upgrading the internal instead of externally was:

1. I would lose my recodings when the time comes to upgrade/replace the stock internal. (Since the internal is MARRIED to any external HD.)
2. Having a working spare JIC of any problems in the future.
3. If I need to add more space, I can always add an external.

Thanks again!


----------



## richsadams

robostock said:


> I'm about upgrade my S3 with the WD AV-GP WD10EVCS and was reading the excellent directions by BKDTV. :up:
> 
> Maybe those who have upgrade their internal S3 can clarify a few questions I have. In the directions it states:
> 
> Is this a large file? Is the file size direct reflection of the amount of space taken by your stock drive? For example if your drive is 90% full, will the file be about 225GB?
> 
> and this one
> 
> If the "Source Drive is A" and the new drive is "Destination Drive A" how can the source and destination be both A?
> 
> I'm sure the directions are correct but I just need a little bit of clarification.
> 
> Thank you for your support!


The backup files are not large, IIRC, only a few MB's. They only contain the basic info for your TiVo's OS, SP's, WL's, etc. They do not contain your recordings. The backup step is optional. If you're going to put your original TiVo drive on the shelf (recommended) you don't have to keep a separate set of files because they are on the original drive of course. It's just good practice to backup all files whatever you're doing.

"Source" and "destination" are common terms, the drive letter doesn't matter. If you were creating multiple copies of a single drive you'd have "Source drive A" and "Destination drives A, B, C, etc."

The program is very simple and quick to use, have no fear. Don't forget to turn on "supersize" and enjoy all of that the new space!


----------



## tivorepo

To upgrade the TivoHD internally or externally (using the hack) one must open the case which immediately voids the warranty (unless you use the Tivo certified "WD My DVR Expander"). 

Since the warranty is voided either way isn't it just less hassle to install internally? The only minor disadvantage is slightly less space because you are using only one drive instead of two (the original internal plus the new external). 

Can I just order a drive and make a final decision later? Will the 1TB Western Digital WD10EVCS work on the TivoHD internally or externally all the same? (with the Antec MX-1) 

I hope this is not a rehash of the last few posts but I just want to verifiy what I think you guys are saying.


----------



## jlb

I know I should just upgrade the internal drive on my TiVoHD, but I also know I will just probably get a DVR Expander and go that "easy" route, knowing full well the + and - of doing it this way.

What I am really hoping for is a 1TB Expander to be released. If one were, does anyone think that changes the general landscape of what one "should" do? 

I just have this real bad worry that I will kill my TiVo once I open it. That or my family asking why I lost our recordings or killed the Tivo.......


----------



## sga000

tivorepo said:


> To upgrade the TivoHD internally or externally (using the hack) one must open the case which immediately voids the warranty (unless you use the Tivo certified "WD My DVR Expander").
> 
> Since the warranty is voided either way isn't it just less hassle to install internally? The only minor disadvantage is slightly less space because you are using only one drive instead of two (the original internal plus the new external).
> 
> Can I just order a drive and make a final decision later? Will the 1TB Western Digital WD10EVCS work on the TivoHD internally or externally all the same? (with the Antec MX-1)
> 
> I hope this is not a rehash of the last few posts but I just want to verifiy what I think you guys are saying.


TivoRepo, I'm no expert and haven't done my upgrade yet because I'm waiting for the disk to arrive. But if you look at my question on post #1029, then there are some responses #1032, 1033, 1034, 1036. Basically, most of those posts say that doing the internal upgrade makes sense. But you can always change your mind, as #1032 and 1034 say. The posts by these guys have convinced me to go with the internal upgrade for now, and if I need more space in the future (doubtful!), I could see what's available at that time and add it externally.

From what I have read on here, the WD10EVCS should work internally and externally (with Antec MX-1), for both the Series 3 and Tivo HD. But I don't think it has been tried in all 4 situations. I believe the biggest question was whether it would work internally in the Series 3, and someone has already done that successfully. I'm not sure if anyone has used it internally in the Tivo HD yet, but I will be trying that when my disk arrives. Finally, almost for sure, it will work externally on both Series 3 and Tivo HD.


----------



## richsadams

tivorepo said:


> To upgrade the TivoHD internally or externally (using the hack) one must open the case which immediately voids the warranty (unless you use the Tivo certified "WD My DVR Expander").
> 
> Since the warranty is voided either way isn't it just less hassle to install internally? The only minor disadvantage is slightly less space because you are using only one drive instead of two (the original internal plus the new external).
> 
> Can I just order a drive and make a final decision later? Will the 1TB Western Digital WD10EVCS work on the TivoHD internally or externally all the same? (with the Antec MX-1)
> 
> I hope this is not a rehash of the last few posts but I just want to verifiy what I think you guys are saying.


Unless one leaves some evidence of the box being opened, TiVo's 30 day parts and labor/1 year labor warranties are still in effect as long as the unit is returned to it's original status for an exchange.

The WD10EVCS has been successfully installed and tested as an internal upgrade in at least two Series3's. There's no reason to believe that there would be any issues when upgrading a TiVo HD or using it as an expansion drive for the Series3 via plug and play or with the TiVo HD (with the required configuration using WinMFS to marry the internal and external drives).

Antec's MX-1 is one of the recommended enclosures on the first post of this thread. Ours worked flawlessly with our Series3 for over eight months. :up:


----------



## richsadams

sga000 said:


> From what I have read on here, the WD10EVCS should work internally and externally (with Antec MX-1), for both the Series 3 and Tivo HD. But I don't think it has been tried in all 4 situations. I believe the biggest question was whether it would work internally in the Series 3, and someone has already done that successfully. I'm not sure if anyone has used it internally in the Tivo HD yet, but I will be trying that when my disk arrives. Finally, almost for sure, it will work externally on both Series 3 and Tivo HD.


Please let us know how your TiVo HD upgrade using the new Western Digital AV GP WD10EVCS drive goes. :up:


----------



## tivorepo

richsadams said:


> Please let us know how your TiVo HD upgrade using the new Western Digital AV GP WD10EVCS drive goes. :up:


Thanks to all. It may be a week or two but when I get it running I will post my results. I plan to purchase this one.


----------



## richsadams

tivorepo said:


> Thanks to all. It may be a week or two but when I get it running I will post my results. I plan to purchase this one.


Sounds good. AFAIK no one has ever used that vendor before. It would be good to know what your experience is with them as well.

If there are any ordering issues, buy.com has it for a dollar more ($244.99 w/free shipping) and many folks here swear by them. (More here)


----------



## dtphonehome

Unless using it for an S3 internal, here's a great deal on a WD 1TB quiet drive:
http://www.buy.com/prod/1tb-sata-16...hard-drive-with-full/q/loc/101/206895079.html
Only 189...169 if you have a buy.com coupon (linked to email address).


----------



## richsadams

dtphonehome said:


> Unless using it for an S3 internal, here's a great deal on a WD 1TB quiet drive:
> http://www.buy.com/prod/1tb-sata-16...hard-drive-with-full/q/loc/101/206895079.html
> Only 189...169 if you have a buy.com coupon (linked to email address).


Good find! :up: As noted, that particular drive will not work as an internal upgrade for Series3's which require the new DVR dedicated WD10EVCS AV-GP.

Cheers for that!


----------



## chewy2314

Any who gets this, please let us know if it works. I've tried both the 750Gb and 500Gb versions (both models ended with -00xxx) and I have no luck on getting either to work in TivoHD. Thanks in advance!


----------



## peternelson

sga000 said:


> From what I have read on here, the WD10EVCS should work internally and externally (with Antec MX-1), for both the Series 3 and Tivo HD. But I don't think it has been tried in all 4 situations. I believe the biggest question was whether it would work internally in the Series 3, and someone has already done that successfully. I'm not sure if anyone has used it internally in the Tivo HD yet, but I will be trying that when my disk arrives. Finally, almost for sure, it will work externally on both Series 3 and Tivo HD.


I installed a Western Digital 1TB WD10EVCS internally in my TiVoHD last weekend. Everything went well. I posted about it in this thread earlier this week.


----------



## tivorepo

richsadams said:


> Sounds good. AFAIK no one has ever used that vendor before. It would be good to know what your experience is with them as well.
> 
> If there are any ordering issues, buy.com has it for a dollar more ($244.99 w/free shipping) and many folks here swear by them. (More here)
> 
> Edit: Ooops, just noted that buy.com is showing it sold out at the moment.


Onsale.com didn't work out too well either as they are now out of stock.



dtphonehome said:


> Unless using it for an S3 internal, here's a great deal on a WD 1TB quiet drive:
> http://www.buy.com/prod/1tb-sata-16...hard-drive-with-full/q/loc/101/206895079.html
> Only 189...169 if you have a buy.com coupon (linked to email address).


If I am going to go internal on the TivoHD I may as well try this model just above from dtphonehome. This is a "green" model running at 5400? I assume it's ok since you guys are recommending it but the below comments from days past make me nervous:



richsadams said:


> Cavalry's 750GB drives had many problems early on and were never a recommended expansion drive. (More here - see #36).
> 
> AFAIK no one's tried this latest drive, but I'd be wary based on their history, plus if their new drive doesn't have a fan-cooled enclosure that might be a problem too.


----------



## dwit

tivorepo said:


> Onsale.com didn't work out too well either as they are now out of stock.
> 
> If I am going to go internal on the TivoHD I may as well try this model just above from dtphonehome. This is a "green" model running at 5400? I assume it's ok since you guys are recommending it but the below comments from days past make me nervous:


The drive in the link is a pure WD drive and should have no Cavalry association. I think the Cavalry there has been mentioned as a misprint.

I think the problems mentioned were with the Calvary enclosures these drives may have been sold in.


----------



## tivorepo

dwit said:


> The drive in the link is a pure WD drive and should have no Cavalry association. I think the Cavalry there has been mentioned as a misprint.
> 
> I think the problems mentioned were with the Calvary enclosures these drives may have been sold in.


Dwit how sure are you that it is a "misprint". It seems the Cavalry brand is a Wester Digital brand "green" version. Am I about to make a mistake?  Either way if you guys feel it will work internally on the TivoHD then I'm game.


----------



## dtphonehome

tivorepo said:


> Dwit how sure are you that it is a "misprint". It seems the Cavalry brand is a Wester Digital brand "green" version. Am I about to make a mistake?  Either way if you guys feel it will work internally on the TivoHD then I'm game.


I think you're mistaken...the Cavalry drive mentioned above is indeed a WD, not a special "green" version. WD sells the identical drive themselves, but cavalry packages it with cables and software under their own brand.


----------



## chewy2314

peternelson said:


> I installed a Western Digital 1TB WD10EVCS internally in my TiVoHD last weekend. Everything went well. I posted about it in this thread earlier this week.


Did you happen to note the model suffix on your new drive?


----------



## jlib

There are no regular desktop 1TB drives listed at WD. So, does that mean it is a "Green Power" one?


----------



## dwit

tivorepo said:


> Dwit how sure are you that it is a "misprint". It seems the Cavalry brand is a Wester Digital brand "green" version. Am I about to make a mistake?  Either way if you guys feel it will work internally on the TivoHD then I'm game.


Based on what I have read here in these forums, I would bet my money that the WD10EACS will work in a TivoHD, but I wouldn't bet your's.


----------



## jlib

It looks like Cavalry really is reselling the WD10EACS.
That is the first sub $200 price. Nice!


----------



## mstenzel

I have a hard drive sitting around and would like to expand my TivoHD. I've read the FAQ and many, many posts and realize that ONLY the WD MyDVR Expander will work as an external (unless I want to open up my box, which I don't).

Being a bargain hunter, I'm very tempted to get the Antec MX-1 on sale now, but only if there's a chance that it could some day be plug and play. I know that the S3 is more liberal on this, but does anyone think that the Tivo/WD exclusivity for the TivoHD is likely to be a permanent reality? I won't bother with the purchase if there's no chance for its use.

Oh, and by the way, the spare HD I have is IDE. So, let's just assume that I could use the Antec on the TivoHD (because Tivo loosened up or I decided to open the box) -- would using an IDE-to-SATA adapter like this make everything kosher, or would I be wasting my time because of driver incompatibility?

Thanks a bunch.


----------



## dwit

mstenzel said:


> I have a hard drive sitting around and would like to expand my TivoHD. I've read the FAQ and many, many posts and realize that ONLY the WD MyDVR Expander will work as an external (unless I want to open up my box, which I don't).
> 
> Being a bargain hunter, I'm very tempted to get the Antec MX-1 on sale now, but only if there's a chance that it could some day be plug and play. I know that the S3 is more liberal on this, but does anyone think that the Tivo/WD exclusivity for the TivoHD is likely to be a permanent reality? I won't bother with the purchase if there's no chance for its use.
> 
> Oh, and by the way, the spare HD I have is IDE. So, let's just assume that I could use the Antec on the TivoHD (because Tivo loosened up or I decided to open the box) -- would using an IDE-to-SATA adapter like this make everything kosher, or would I be wasting my time because of driver incompatibility?
> 
> Thanks a bunch.


It's been suggested that it was never intended for any old drive to work in a p&p manner. Even for the S3, it was a slip up that will be allowed to continue as an (unsupported?) bonus.

So it is likely, that only Tivo approved drives will ever be supported. That's not to say it will always only be WD. Would be nice if there was a little competition to help lower prices.


----------



## richsadams

chewy2314 said:


> Any who gets this, please let us know if it works. I've tried both the 750Gb and 500Gb versions (both models ended with -00xxx) and I have no luck on getting either to work in TivoHD. Thanks in advance!


I can't recall what problem(s) you ran into with those. Can you refresh our memories?


----------



## dwit

richsadams said:


> I can't recall what problem(s) you ran into with those. Can you refresh our memories?


*Here*.


----------



## richsadams

mstenzel said:


> I have a hard drive sitting around and would like to expand my TivoHD. I've read the FAQ and many, many posts and realize that ONLY the WD MyDVR Expander will work as an external (unless I want to open up my box, which I don't).
> 
> Being a bargain hunter, I'm very tempted to get the Antec MX-1 on sale now, but only if there's a chance that it could some day be plug and play. I know that the S3 is more liberal on this, but does anyone think that the Tivo/WD exclusivity for the TivoHD is likely to be a permanent reality? I won't bother with the purchase if there's no chance for its use.
> 
> Oh, and by the way, the spare HD I have is IDE. So, let's just assume that I could use the Antec on the TivoHD (because Tivo loosened up or I decided to open the box) -- would using an IDE-to-SATA adapter like this make everything kosher, or would I be wasting my time because of driver incompatibility?
> 
> Thanks a bunch.


My money says that TiVo will only allow an "approved" expansion drive to be used with TiVo HD's via plug and play going forward. The TiVo HD software identifies eSATA drives by their model numbers. TiVo had the option of writing the software differently but they chose not to and I don't see that ever changing. Various posts by others indicated that Western Digital has said that they may offer a larger, possibly 1TB version of the WD My DVR Expander sometime late this year. (A stocking stuffer no doubt.)

Unfortunately your IDE drive would be incompatible with both the Antec MX-1 enclosure (SATA only) as well as your TiVo HD's SATA requirements.

The WinMFS DIY upgrade for the internal drive is quite easy to use. But if you don't want to deal with that you also have the option of buying a larger pre-imaged drive from DVRUpgrade or Weaknees.


----------



## richsadams

dwit said:


> *Here*.


Got it. Now I remember reading about it. Quite a strange situation...seems like they should work.


----------



## dwit

richsadams said:


> Got it. Now I remember reading about it. Quite a strange situation...seems like they should work.


Maybe after that 3rd drive they'll get it figured out.


----------



## richsadams

FYI, buy.com has the WD AV-GP WD10EVCS Hard Drive back in stock for $244.99 w/free shipping (and other discounts if you can take advantage of them.)


----------



## cab2

I posted about this a bit earlier, but I'm still looking for info from anyone that has seen this before?

I have the S3 (thx) tivo. I added a Seagate Free Agent Pro 500 gig external drive to it not long after the kickstart hack was made known on these threads here. I noticed at the begining of this week my Tivo S3 now seems to have sorta lost the FAP and it's capacity. The tivo knows it's there, and lists it in the info page, but my recording hours now shows at 32 hours of HD and 300ish for SD. Last week or the last time I had checked, I had the roughly 90 something hours of HD available. I'm trying to figure out what went wrong. The numbers I see on the information screen, are what a S3 would show without an external drive. But that same information screen, shows that I have the FAP drive attached.

When I added the drive, tivo was running the 8.x software. I know now, that I'm running the 9.x software. When I added the drive, the external storage menu screens were not part of the software. Now I know they have added those screens and you don't have to do the kickstart anymore to add a drive to the S3. I never even looked at the new screens, since my FAP and Tivo were working fine. I tried last night to go to those screens from the Remote, External Devices, etc screen, and after a short 'Please Wait' screen, I get to the same screen again. In other words, I can't see the follow on screens to the External Storage screen. I get stuck in a loop of going from the screen that says Remote Controls, External Storage, (other menu option) to the same screen again, when I do a left arrow on External Storage.

I'm lost as to what to do next? I've rebooted the tivo. Unplugged the FAP and Tivo, and then plugged things back in again and done the reboot, etc. When all is said and done, same thing. Tivo knows my FAP is there, but is not reporting the additional storage space available. 

I'm still digging around and re-reading everything in this thread, but ???? Any ideas?

thanks in advance
cab


----------



## richsadams

That is odd. AFAIK you're the first to report something like that.  Can you check to see exactly what software version you have? How many recordings are in your Recently Deleted folder? Also, are you missing any of your recordings, etc.?


----------



## chewy2314

Okay, last time to bother everyone (at least on this thread). I was successful on using the Samsung 750Gb F1 drive. Use the same WinMFS backup file that I tried unsuccessfully on both the 750Gb and 500Gb WD GP drives. So, it wasn't my setup nor my doing. Just a heads up on those WD AACS-00xxx drives.


----------



## cab2

richsadams said:


> That is odd. AFAIK you're the first to report something like that.  Can you check to see exactly what software version you have? How many recordings are in your Recently Deleted folder? Also, are you missing any of your recordings, etc.?


The software version is 9.2a-01-2-648

As of this am, there are 0 programs in the deleted folder. And yes, when I first noticed the problem at the begining of the week, i was missing recordings. Thats why I noticed it. along the lines of 'gee, there was more in the now playing list last night'.

My gut now tells me that maybe the FAP has died some how? The FAP itself looks normal with the Orange light and what not. I was playing with it a bit more last night and did another round of reboots and or plugging in and out. The one thing I have not done is to unplug the FAP and the TIVO and then just run the TIVO without the FAP and see what happens. My guess is that it will show me the same # as far as available time. I'll try that today. IF the drive is not bad, then I really have no clue anymore as to what is wrong. I suppose I could hook the drive to my pc and see what I can see for files or something. I know my pc can't read the native format of the drive now that Tivo has set it up as an external drive. I do have partition magic and a few other tools.

If it is a dead FAP, then I guess I have to decide to either replace it, with something in an MX-1 setup, or switch to D*, due to all the SDV I can't get here in austin with TWC. The tivo still works fine, I just miss the extra storage I had.


----------



## robostock

richsadams said:


> The backup files are not large, IIRC, only a few MB's. They only contain the basic info for your TiVo's OS, SP's, WL's, etc.
> 
> The program is very simple and quick to use, have no fear. Don't forget to turn on "supersize" and enjoy all of that the new space!


Great info! I know have everything apart and I have another question.

Do i keep my PC's HD connected (C Drive) or do I take it out and just put in the stock TiVo drive and new 1TB drive? I'm running XP Sp2 if that makes any difference.

Also, if I took out the PC's HD,how would I save the back up file?

Sorry to be such a newbie about this.


----------



## richsadams

robostock said:


> Great info! I know have everything apart and I have another question.
> 
> Do i keep my PC's HD connected (C Drive) or do I take it out and just put in the stock TiVo drive and new 1TB drive? I'm running XP Sp2 if that makes any difference.
> 
> Also, if I took out the PC's HD,how would I save the back up file?
> 
> Sorry to be such a newbie about this.


Legit questions, no worries. You'll keep your PC's hard drive attached as normal, that's how you'll run WinMFS. (Download the program - I put it on my desktop for easy access and then deleted it when I was done.)

You'll just connect your TiVo hard drive in addition to the stock drive. If a Windows format window pops up or anything - just cancel it. Run WinMFS and you'll be fine.

I also have XP Pro/SP2 and it worked perfectly.


----------



## richsadams

cab2 said:


> The software version is 9.2a-01-2-648
> 
> As of this am, there are 0 programs in the deleted folder. And yes, when I first noticed the problem at the begining of the week, i was missing recordings. Thats why I noticed it. along the lines of 'gee, there was more in the now playing list last night'.
> 
> My gut now tells me that maybe the FAP has died some how? The FAP itself looks normal with the Orange light and what not. I was playing with it a bit more last night and did another round of reboots and or plugging in and out. The one thing I have not done is to unplug the FAP and the TIVO and then just run the TIVO without the FAP and see what happens. My guess is that it will show me the same # as far as available time. I'll try that today. IF the drive is not bad, then I really have no clue anymore as to what is wrong. I suppose I could hook the drive to my pc and see what I can see for files or something. I know my pc can't read the native format of the drive now that Tivo has set it up as an external drive. I do have partition magic and a few other tools.
> 
> If it is a dead FAP, then I guess I have to decide to either replace it, with something in an MX-1 setup, or switch to D*, due to all the SDV I can't get here in austin with TWC. The tivo still works fine, I just miss the extra storage I had.


Since you've lost recordings and your Recently Deleted folder is empty it does indeed sound like your external drive may have bitten the proverbial dust. 

I forgot to ask if you tried using another eSATA cable. They are notorious for causing problems. One of the recommended cables such as The SIIG Serial ATA external cable is less than $10.

Other cable recommendations (#25)

However if TiVo is still recognizing your hard drive odds are it's the drive itself and not the cable.

If your drive is still under warranty (I think the FAP's have a one-year warranty) you should be able to get a free replacement.

If it's not the cable the next step will be to properly divorce the eSATA drive. Unplug TiVo, disconnect the eSATA cable, plug TiVo back in and follow the screen directions.

Let us know how it goes.


----------



## derspiess

andy_hd said:


> I, too, did not 'supersize' on initial expand. I didn't miss it -- I just didn't want one more possible source of error. But it turns out that you can 'supersize' at any time. I did so a few weeks later. Didn't lose any recordings -- and increased my available space from 131 Hrs to 144 Hrs.
> 
> You don't have to 're-do' everything. You do need to pull the drive again, but then it is just selecting the drive and turning on 'supersize' for it. Takes less than a minute once the the drive is hooked up to the computer.


Thanks for the info-- I finally got around to doing this & it worked great. Gave me another 6 or 7 hrs. Was so easy to do in winmfs.exe I was skeptical that it even did anything until I checked the drive from the Tivo menu.

Unrelated, when I pulled the drive I noticed that the jumper was set to limit the transfer rate to 1.5gb/s. I went ahead & pulled it to set it for 3.0gb/s. Does this really make a difference in performance for the drive in a Tivo?


----------



## cab2

richsadams said:


> Since you've lost recordings and your Recently Deleted folder is empty it does indeed sound like your external drive may have bitten the proverbial dust.
> 
> I forgot to ask if you tried using another eSATA cable. They are notorious for causing problems. One of the recommended cables such as The SIIG Serial ATA external cable is less than $10.
> 
> Other cable recommendations (#25)
> 
> However if TiVo is still recognizing your hard drive odds are it's the drive itself and not the cable.
> 
> If your drive is still under warranty (I think the FAP's have a one-year warranty) you should be able to get a free replacement.
> 
> If it's not the cable the next step will be to properly divorce the eSATA drive. Unplug TiVo, disconnect the eSATA cable, plug TiVo back in and follow the screen directions.
> 
> Let us know how it goes.


Well, here's the update.

Yes, I am using the 'good' Esata cables. I got it through Amazon. I did have problems with the FAP until I replaced the esata cable I was using with one of the known good ones.

Booted the tivo without the external drive, got the warning about the divorce, and said ok. When the tivo finally booted up without the FAP, and in (for lack of another word) standalone mode, the #'s were as I expected, the same. Roughly 32 hours of HD and 302 of SD. All the recordings that were showing on the Now Playing list before, were still there, so that tells me that it was not using the FAP even though it recognized it. So, I took the FAP to my pc to see what I could see. Well, nothing. Does tivo use linux as the format for a drive? That I can see with Partition Magic. In any event, everything I had to look at the FAP drive, showed it as an unpartitioned, empty drive. As if it had just come out of the store packaging. What the???? Oh well, just for S&G's I created an extended partition on the drive. I then plugged it into the tivo and rebooted tivo. At this point, Tivo saw it as if I had just connected a new 'unapproved' drive.

Tivo did it's thing, and I'm back to 92 hours of HD. Ok, so somehow, the FAP seems to have gone back to an unformated state? who knows. Everything seems to be working now, FAP and Tivo, and I have the extra storage space showing up as it should be. I'll monitor it for a little while and see what happens.

If my luck holds like my past experiance, I'll be the only one in the world that sees something like this. I seem to bring out the 'weird, never seen that before' in just about everything. Bad Karma?


----------



## richsadams

Okay, you win the weird story of the month award! That is indeed a new one. 

In answer to your question, yes, TiVo does use a form of Linux so it's no surprise that your PC didn't recognize it as there's no logical formatting. Subsequently whatever partitions, etc. you may have configured using your PC would have erased the existing data but were deleted when you hooked it back up as TiVo reformats drives when they are initially connected.

The fact that TiVo recognized your FAP drive when you first installed it, then lost it, but still recognized it's model number is the Twilight Zone part that's fascinating. 

Anyway, glad you have a proper eSATA cable and even more happy that you've resolved the mystery...sort of. Congrats!! :up:


----------



## RayHs

Note that I've seen an article that mentions Partition Magic writing data to what it thinks are unused reserved sectors of the hard drive even if no operation is performed. I'd be hesitant to use it to view a drive which may be formatted in a structure that it does not recognize.


----------



## richsadams

RayHs said:


> Note that I've seen an article that mentions Partition Magic writing data to what it thinks are unused reserved sectors of the hard drive even if no operation is performed. I'd be hesitant to use it to view a drive which may be formatted in a structure that it does not recognize.


Welcome to the forum and thanks for the valuable "heads up" about Partition Magic! :up:


----------



## cab2

RayHs said:


> Note that I've seen an article that mentions Partition Magic writing data to what it thinks are unused reserved sectors of the hard drive even if no operation is performed. I'd be hesitant to use it to view a drive which may be formatted in a structure that it does not recognize.


Well, I'm not certain about the article you quoted, but in my case, it really doesn't matter. I used PM only to see if it could see anything at all on the drive. PM does now read Linux partitions. I created the blank extended partition on the drive just to confirm that you could do something / write something to the drive. In other words, make sure the drive was useable. I knew that when I hooked it back up to Tivo, Tivo would do it's own formatting as needed to make the drive work.

As a side note on PM. I have used that tool since day one of it's existance. It orginally started way back when, as a tool only for IBM OS/2 systems. So that gives you a clue as to how far back it's origins go. I was one of the original beta testers for the product before it went live with release 1.0. I loved it then, and I still love it now. I really wish they had not sold out to the Evil God known as Symantec, but I still believe it's a good tool. I have never had a problem with it in all these years. It can be a real life saver. Granted, now there are other tools that do the same or similar functions, but PM really did pioneer the field. The other tools that exist now, pretty much copied the functionality from PM.


----------



## jlb

The more I peruse this thread is it "expands", the more I know I can handle doing an internal upgrade. But I keep thinking about whatI would do if I muck it up. The DVR Expander is so easy. If WD had a 1tb version out now, or by summer, I would grab it in a heartbeat.

We're getting a new pc soon. So maybe I use the old PC to consider doing an upgrade.

I guess what is holding me back the most is that my cable card works fine after my initial install. I would just hate it if an internal upgrade caused me to have to get on the horn with comcast.

I would be very happy just adding the 500gb external, but I do think (pure supposition) WD will release 1 1TB some time this year. Thus, I wait.


----------



## richsadams

jlb said:


> The more I peruse this thread is it "expands", the more I know I can handle doing an internal upgrade. But I keep thinking about whatI would do if I muck it up. The DVR Expander is so easy. If WD had a 1tb version out now, or by summer, I would grab it in a heartbeat.
> 
> We're getting a new pc soon. So maybe I use the old PC to consider doing an upgrade.
> 
> I guess what is holding me back the most is that my cable card works fine after my initial install. I would just hate it if an internal upgrade caused me to have to get on the horn with comcast.
> 
> I would be very happy just adding the 500gb external, but I do think (pure supposition) WD will release 1 1TB some time this year. Thus, I wait.


AFAIK, there's no reason WD/TiVo won't have a 1TB drive available one of these days. WD says "late 2008" whatever that may mean. So if you can survive with what you have you should be fine.

On the other hand, WinMFS is a real no-brainer and very, very easy to use. Our 1TB drive functions perfectly and all of our settings (SP's, WL's, etc.) transferred over just fine...including the cable card settings. So if you get antsy, give it a go. Worst case scenario is that if you somehow by some freak chance manage to muck things up (and I honestly don't know how anyone could), you can just reinstall your original drive and you're back to square one, no harm done.


----------



## sga000

I have a 1TB WD10EVCS drive coming from Buy.com (it has been 8 days, FedEx was supposed to deliver yesterday, but it didn't...the usual screw-ups...they can't give me any more info yet).

I wasn't sure whether I wanted to do internal or external expansion, so I decided to prepare for both ways. (In the meantime, I've decided on internal, based on good advice in this thread). So I just received an Antec MX-1, which was at a very good price at Amazon after rebate. My thinking was that even if I didn't use it now, it may come in handy later, and I will have only spent about $17 on it.

I also got a Vantec sata-to-usb adapter since I have a laptop and thought I'd need that for the backup/restore procedure. But here is my question. Now that I received it, it see that the Antec MX-1 has both a SATA cable, which I cannot use to connect to my laptop, and a USB-to-USB cable, which seems like it would connect to my laptop. So could I have only ordered the Antec MX-1, connected it to my laptop with the USB cable, and run the backup/restore procedure, and thus, I didn't need the sata-to-usb adapter at all?


----------



## dwit

sga000 said:


> I have a 1TB WD10EVCS drive coming from Buy.com (it has been 8 days, FedEx was supposed to deliver yesterday, but it didn't...the usual screw-ups...they can't give me any more info yet).
> 
> I wasn't sure whether I wanted to do internal or external expansion, so I decided to prepare for both ways. (In the meantime, I've decided on internal, based on good advice in this thread). So I just received an Antec MX-1, which was at a very good price at Amazon after rebate. My thinking was that even if I didn't use it now, it may come in handy later, and I will have only spent about $17 on it.
> 
> I also got a Vantec sata-to-usb adapter since I have a laptop and thought I'd need that for the backup/restore procedure. But here is my question. Now that I received it, it see that the Antec MX-1 has both a SATA cable, which I cannot use to connect to my laptop, and a USB-to-USB cable, which seems like it would connect to my laptop. So could I have only ordered the Antec MX-1, connected it to my laptop with the USB cable, and run the backup/restore procedure, and thus, I didn't need the sata-to-usb adapter at all?


Yes. The enclosue and adapter do essentially the same thing as far as communicating with the pc.

I ordered the same enclosure and drive. Received the enclosure today. Still waiting for drive to ship.


----------



## sga000

dwit said:


> Yes. The enclosue and adapter do essentially the same thing as far as communicating with the pc.
> 
> I ordered the same enclosure and drive. Received the enclosure today. Still waiting for drive to ship.


I had assumed that the Antec MX-1 would NOT work for hooking up to my laptop. That's because the instructions under III. 30. in the first post say:

"You can open your computer and connect it with a SATA cable, or you can connect it externally with a SATA->USB adapter".

Of course, they are not specifically talking about a laptop. But if the Antec MX-1 (or other enclosure) would have been acceptable for attaching to a PC or laptop and performing the instructions in III. 30., I would have thought those instructions would have said so. Maybe those instructions assume that we know more than we do!


----------



## richsadams

sga000 said:


> I had assumed that the Antec MX-1 would NOT work for hooking up to my laptop. That's because the instructions under III. 30. in the first post say:
> 
> "You can open your computer and connect it with a SATA cable, or you can connect it externally with a SATA->USB adapter".
> 
> Of course, they are not specifically talking about a laptop. But if the Antec MX-1 (or other enclosure) would have been acceptable for attaching to a PC or laptop and performing the instructions in III. 30., I would have thought those instructions would have said so. Maybe those instructions assume that we know more than we do!


As dwit points out, your MX-1 should do the trick. However IIRC, there was at least one report of someone that tried that and ended up using a SATA/USB adapter because his laptop didn't recognize the SATA drive with an external enclosure...can't remember if it was an MX-1 or not.

Bottom line is that it will either work or it won't...your laptop (using WinMFS) will either recognize the drive or it won't. If it doesn't you may need to use your adapter. If it does, hopefully you can return your extra adapter for a refund.


----------



## Gregor

FYI, I picked up the 1TB Hitachi Cinemastar at Newegg for $249.99 +$7 three day shipping.


----------



## robostock

I received my 1TB WD10EVCS from buy.com last week and when I went to install it it was DOA. Also, tried 2 different PC and my S3, all with no luck. Even tried it in the MX-1 case using USB and SATA.

I sent in back on 3/24 via UPS with a ETA at buy.com of 3/31! 

They WILL not ship me another until they receive the one back!! :down:

I've had a few things that were defective from Amazon and they sent me a replacement right away. One time they shipped it next day air at their expense! 

The other minor gripe I have with buy.com was the way they shipped the HD. Just in a card board box stuffend into a bubble wrap envelope. The cardboard package did not have any padding between it and the drive and the bubble envelope was on the thin side.

I did call buy.com and requested my replacement drive be packaged with additional packing material.

After talking to the international CS rep, I did not feel confident this is going to happen.


----------



## paulrangel

I bought a 500gb Seagate Freeagent Pro from staples.com. I thought an esata upgrade was possible just by plug and play, but it wasn't as easy. First off the Freeagent drive didn't come with an esata cable. I bought an SII from amazon.com and that cost me $20. For 50 bucks more I could have bought a DVR expander and saved myself a headache.

I pulled the internal drive from my Tivo and hooked it up to my PC with a Bytecc sata>usb adapter in Windows XP. And I also hooked up the Freeagent using the supplied usb cable. Ran mfs and married the 2 drives (which ironically takes only a split second.) Put the drives back and now my Tivo HD has 86HD hours.


----------



## richsadams

Gregor said:


> FYI, I picked up the 1TB Hitachi Cinemastar at Newegg for $249.99 +$7 three day shipping.


Excellent price on a very high quality product...about $150 less than it was only a couple of months ago! Nice find. :up:


----------



## richsadams

robostock said:


> I received my 1TB WD10EVCS from buy.com last week and when I went to install it it was DOA. Tried 2 different PC and my S3, all with no luck. Even tried it in the MX-1 case using USB and SATA.
> 
> I sent in back on 3/24 via UPS with a ETA at buy.com of 3/31!
> 
> They WILL not ship me another until they receive the one back!! :down:
> 
> I've had a few things that were defective from Amazon and they sent me a replacement right away. One time they shipped ir next day air at their expense!
> 
> The other minor gripe I have with buy.com was the way they shipped the HD. Just in a card board box stuffend into a bubble wrap envelope. The cardboard package did not have any padding between it and the drive and the bubble envelope was on the thin side.
> 
> I did call buy.com and requested my replacement drive be packaged with additional packing material.
> 
> After talking to the international CS rep, I did not feel confident this is going to happen.


How aggravating!  Although I've never used them, I've read a few other posts from buy.com satisfied customers here. Hopefully they aren't going downhill and this was a one-time experience. Thanks for that and keep us posted on how they behave going forward.


----------



## richsadams

paulrangel said:


> I bought a 500gb Seagate Freeagent Pro from staples.com. I thought an esata upgrade was possible just by plug and play, but it wasn't as easy. First off the Freeagent drive didn't come with an esata cable. I bought an SII from amazon.com and that cost me $20. For 50 bucks more I could have bought a DVR expander and saved myself a headache.
> 
> I pulled the internal drive from my Tivo and hooked it up to my PC with a Bytecc sata>usb adapter in Windows XP. And I also hooked up the Freeagent using the supplied usb cable. Ran mfs and married the 2 drives (which ironically takes only a split second.) Put the drives back and now my Tivo HD has 86HD hours.


Welcome to the forum. :up:

It always pays to do a little research before diving into some things. The very first post on this sticky thread is pretty clear about what will work with what...and what won't. Glad to hear that you were able to get it sorted out though. Thanks for the post, enjoy your new real estate and let us know how it performs.


----------



## ilh

robostock said:


> They WILL not ship me another until they receive the one back!! :down:
> 
> I've had a few things that were defective from Amazon and they sent me a replacement right away. One time they shipped ir next day air at their expense!


That is pretty typical in the industry, for example NewEgg does the same. If you're willing to buy another one you could likely have them ship right away and then refund the original one when it arrives, but I understand not wanting to do that.

I've got my fingers crossed my Buy.com WD10EACS arrives operational today. It is "out for delivery" this morning.


----------



## robostock

ilh said:


> I've got my fingers crossed my Buy.com WD10EACS arrives operational today. It is "out for delivery" this morning.


Let us know how everything works out, especially how it was packed.


----------



## JayBird

Anybody got info on when the 1TB Seagate DB35.4 drives will start shipping? When they were announced last fall, they were supposed to ship in the first quarter of 2008. Since we are rapidly approaching the end of the first quarter, I keep waiting to see when these drives become available, but so far there's no signs of these drives shipping yet. If it's only going to be another month, I'll keep waiting. If it's going to be another 6 months, I'll go with the Hitachi from NewEgg.


----------



## RayHs

robostock said:


> Let us know how everything works out, especially how it was packed.


I got mine yesterday. It came in a generic brown box and the drive was fitted with foam caps on the ends centering the drive in the box. Fairly standard for drive packaging. Haven't had a chance to do the install yet.


----------



## 1283

The WD drive in the last couple of messages is *NOT* a bare drive packed by buy.com. It's pre-packaged by Cavalry.


----------



## ilh

I finished installing last night and it went well. The drive test took about 4:15, and the mfscopy in WinMFS took about 0:40 for my nearly full 160GB. It cold booted up fine in my THD, but I haven't tried soft rebooting yet.


----------



## sga000

My WD10EVCS arrived 2 days late yesterday from Buy.com through FedEx. That was not a fun experience, but let's get on to more interesting things.

It came in a brown box with some heavy cellophane holding it tightly to part of the inside of the box. There were about 2 extra inches of packaging all around. Then the box was enclosed in a flimsy shipping envelope. I have seen no problems with the drive since, but unfortunately, I didn't think about running any diagnostics on the drive before installing.

My procedure went fairly smoothly. I used the Vantec ISATAU2 sata-to-usb adapter, and it worked well. I did the backup, which took about 7 minutes. I had deleted everything except 24 hours of "Recently Deleted". Thus, after doing the restore, which took about 4 minutes, my hours available/in use were not quite understandable when I looked at them through the "misc" tab of MFSINFO. That was no problem though, because I just got rid of them after I booted the new drive (unnecessary, but just for cleanliness). The system information now shows 144 HD hours and almost 1368 SD. So nice!

Here's where I had a minor problem. I did the backup and restore separately, i.e. with only one drive hooked up to my laptop at a time. When I was ready to do the restore, WinMFS would not show the new drive so that I could select it. I attached it exactly in the same way as I had done with the old drive, which had showed up available to be selected immediately. Even though I didn't think it would make a difference, I rebooted Windows XP and tried again to no avail. Then, for no good reason, I checked the "show mounted drive" box, and then it displayed in the "A" box! Then, I unchecked the box and it remained visible. In the description for the drive, it even said it was "unmounted", which is what I expected. So it makes absolutely no sense to me that checking that box helped it show up for selection. I suppose it's possible that there was some delay in it becoming available through USB, and the box checking was just coincidental, but I do not believe this is the case. That's because I had waited the appropriate time and had heard the sounds for when a USB device has been attached and activated. Anyway, from that point on, the restore went without incident. I've read this thread, and I don't remember anyone mentioning this before, but if they have, sorry to repeat it here.

I did not do the Hitachi procedure to change the noise level because I have a laptop and was using USB to talk to the drive, and from reading here, I believe I would not have had access to USB when doing that procedure. The drive is making a small amount of noise, but I am usually 15 feet away, and it will not be a problem. Unfortunately, I didn't listen closely enough when the original drive was there, so I can't compare how it sounds now with how it was before.

Thanks for all the great advice on this thread.


----------



## robostock

sga000 said:


> It came in a brown box with some heavy cellophane holding it tightly to part of the inside of the box. There were about 2 extra inches of packaging all around. Then the box was enclosed in a flimsy shipping envelope. I have seen no problems with the drive since, but unfortunately, I didn't think about running any diagnostics on the drive before installing.


That's the way mine was shipped.

Is this the way all WD10EVCS are shipped?

I'm glad your drive is working! I hope my replacement will be a working drive.
Unfortunately, today when I checked the buy.com website and they are out of stock!


----------



## chewy2314

ilh said:


> I finished installing last night and it went well. The drive test took about 4:15, and the mfscopy in WinMFS took about 0:40 for my nearly full 160GB. It cold booted up fine in my THD, but I haven't tried soft rebooting yet.


Hey Congrats! I couldn't get the 750Gb or 500Gb working in my THD. Eventually, I got the Samsung F1 750Gb instead. So far, no random reboots. Only BSOD while testing the output resolution.


----------



## richsadams

robostock said:


> That's the way mine was shipped.
> 
> Is this the way all WD10EVCS are shipped?


Shipping OEM drives in styro, peanuts, bubble wrap, clam shells, etc. isn't uncommon for most e-tailers. The potential for damage is minimal as the heads are parked and unable to contact the platter surfaces. Unless there is a severe blow to the drive, they can withstand a lot of abuse in that configuration. Physical damage can occur once the drive is active and the read/write heads are in contact with the disk surface however...so that's when you do NOT want to bounce them around.

Congrats to everyone installing their new drives! :up: Keep us up to date should anything unusual happen.


----------



## esb1981

Okay, so I am planning to upgrade my internal drive by connecting both the current Tivo drive and the new drive via internal sata in my computer (I want to keep all my recordings). So I opened by computer and it turns out I have only 2 sata ports on my motherboard, and one of them is being used by my PC's HD, which obviously I can't disconnect. So what do I do? I don't want to use a USB-SATA adapter since then it will take forever to transfer the data. Are there any SATA splitters or something out there that I could use? Any other ideas?

Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

esb1981 said:


> Okay, so I am planning to upgrade my internal drive by connecting both the current Tivo drive and the new drive via internal sata in my computer (I want to keep all my recordings). So I opened by computer and it turns out I have only 2 sata ports on my motherboard, and one of them is being used by my PC's HD, which obviously I can't disconnect. So what do I do? I don't want to use a USB-SATA adapter since then it will take forever to transfer the data. Are there any SATA splitters or something out there that I could use? Any other ideas?
> 
> Thanks!


Are you sure it only has two SATA connectors? You might want to pull up the specs for your mother board on line. MB's often/usually have four or more, however they may be scattered about in different places, usually in pairs. Have a closer look.

Otherwise IIRC you can connect your original drive and copy the contents to your PC's drive and then use that data to build your new drive, but I haven't tried that so someone more knowledgeable may be able to help there.

Another option is to buy a SATA PCI adapter card (if you have an open slot) like this one. That will allow you to connect both drives at once. I don't generally recommend Tiger Direct, but they seem to have the best price at the moment ($19.99).


----------



## Pauldon Philster

I've got a Tivo HD and I'm thinking of expanding the storage significantly. In additional to additional Tivo storage, however, I also need some additional home network storage. So, I'm thinking of just adding the storage to my network and using TivoToGo to transfer shows I want to keep long-term. 

Obviously this setup requires a manual transfers from the computer, but my experience has been that transfers are pretty quick and the Tivo HD even allows me to start watching a show pretty much as soon as the transfer starts. Also, this setup allows me to use one hard drive for both network storage and Tivo storage.

Since drives married to the Tivo HD cannot be simultaneously used as network storage, I'm wondering if there are any substantial benefits to using the eSATA connection over using TivoToGo to transfer shows.

Any thoughts on this topic would be appreciated.

Thanks


----------



## cdeckert219

robostock said:


> I received my 1TB WD10EVCS from buy.com last week and when I went to install it it was DOA....The other minor gripe I have with buy.com was the way they shipped the HD. Just in a card board box stuffend into a bubble wrap envelope. The cardboard package did not have any padding between it and the drive and the bubble envelope was on the thin side.


+1

I ordered one a few weeks back and it came in a small box inside a larger box. Very little packing and the drive bounced it's way to my house, I'm sure. DOA. UPS shows it having reached their return warehouse over a week ago. Buy.com still shows it as waiting to be returned. Sheeeesh. I won't be purchasing from them again.


----------



## richsadams

Pauldon Philster said:


> I've got a Tivo HD and I'm thinking of expanding the storage significantly. In additional to additional Tivo storage, however, I also need some additional home network storage. So, I'm thinking of just adding the storage to my network and using TivoToGo to transfer shows I want to keep long-term.
> 
> Obviously this setup requires a manual transfers from the computer, but my experience has been that transfers are pretty quick and the Tivo HD even allows me to start watching a show pretty much as soon as the transfer starts. Also, this setup allows me to use one hard drive for both network storage and Tivo storage.
> 
> Since drives married to the Tivo HD cannot be simultaneously used as network storage, I'm wondering if there are any substantial benefits to using the eSATA connection over using TivoToGo to transfer shows.
> 
> Any thoughts on this topic would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks


Most people are simply trying to increase their recording capacity. The TiVo HD's anemic 160GB OEM drive only allows 20 hours of HD recording. For anyone with a reasonable SP list going away for a week or so, the disk would be full in no time. Adding the approved 500GB WD My DVR Expander (or something larger) OR upgrading the internal drive is almost a prerequisite to owning a TiVo HD for anyone that primarily records HD programs.

For those wanting to archive recordings there are a number of options including what you're considering, however that would not increase TiVo's actual recording capacity.


----------



## richsadams

cdeckert219 said:


> +1
> 
> I ordered one a few weeks back and it came in a small box inside a larger box. Very little packing and the drive bounced it's way to my house, I'm sure. DOA. UPS shows it having reached their return warehouse over a week ago. Buy.com still shows it as waiting to be returned. Sheeeesh. I won't be purchasing from them again.


Hmmm...that's two strikes against buy.com. :down: :down:


----------



## ilh

My WD10EACS is giving me troubles. This morning upon turning on the TV it was locked up hard, unresponsive to the remote (no yellow light). After power cycling, half an hour later it froze up and rebooted itself. Ugh.

I'll try kickstarting it, but this doesn't bode well for this drive in my THD.

--Lee


----------



## ilh

Very frustrating! Kickstart 57 and 58 haven't helped. It has locked up on me 4 times this morning. With the stock drive I didn't have a single lock up in 3+ months of ownership.

Pulling the WD10EACS out of the THD and putting in my PC I am now finding it fails WD's quick SMART test. Before I installed it in the THD, it passed this quick test as well as the extended test. This sounds like infant mortality.

What do folks recommend for a replacement drive? I'm not sure I want to try another WD10EACS, but I may try another before moving on.

--Lee


----------



## esb1981

Okay, so I can't get the stinkin cover off the Tivo. Any suggestions?


----------



## esb1981

Nevermind. I pulled the side out a little bit, and then it popped right off. Now, to somehow get the current drive out...


----------



## robostock

cdeckert219 said:


> UPS shows it having reached their return warehouse over a week ago. Buy.com still shows it as waiting to be returned.


Did you get a chance to call them yet?

Mine is due to arrive at their warehouse tommorrow. If I can get them to credit me I may go with the Hitachi from Newegg or maybe forgo the internal route and get the My DVR.


----------



## cdeckert219

I sent an email earlier this week and they said it takes 5-7 business days to process returns. So this Tuesday will be 7 days. I got tired of waiting and went to Fry's two weeks ago; got a 1TB Maxtor. It's working like a charm--very quiet. 

Buy.com said that they won't give credit for defective drives; they'll be sending a new drive. I didn't push it because I can use it in a second TiVoHD I have coming my way (found another Woot refurb). Hopefully the 2nd TiVo box and the hard drive will arrive around the same time.


----------



## chewy2314

ilh said:


> [snip]
> What do folks recommend for a replacement drive? I'm not sure I want to try another WD10EACS, but I may try another before moving on.
> 
> --Lee


I had trouble with both 750Gb and 500Gb of the WD GP drives. I got the Samsung F1 750Gb and within 4 minutes it was up and running in my THD without a hitch. I have not had any random reboots. Only the GSOD when i was testing the output resolution. No problem using Hybrid 480p/1080i setting.


----------



## richsadams

ilh said:


> Very frustrating! Kickstart 57 and 58 haven't helped. It has locked up on me 4 times this morning. With the stock drive I didn't have a single lock up in 3+ months of ownership.
> 
> Pulling the WD10EACS out of the THD and putting in my PC I am now finding it fails WD's quick SMART test. Before I installed it in the THD, it passed this quick test as well as the extended test. This sounds like infant mortality.
> 
> What do folks recommend for a replacement drive? I'm not sure I want to try another WD10EACS, but I may try another before moving on.
> 
> --Lee


Sorry to hear that you're having trouble with your upgraded hard drive. Ours is still humming along fine, knock on wood (touching head). How old is it your drive? It has a 3 year warranty and IIRC the failure rate was about the same as the national average. But that isn't much comfort when all of your recordings are on the line I know.

I guess what I'd do is get them to replace it and if you don't want to risk it in your TiVo, put it in your PC or sell it on ebay. You might want to try the newer WD AV GP DVR dedicated drive, the Hitachi CinemaStar or the Samsung chewy2314 recommends. I'm a Seagate man myself, but I've read more than a few negative posts about their new 1TB drives.

Let us know what you decide. :up:


----------



## jlb

Sort of not related to the thread, but I will try......

Along the lines of some folks have reported that their eSata USB cable that came with their My DVR Expander has not been great......

I have an external WD HD on my computer at home. I am finding that either the cable or the port on the HD is flaky. It seems sometimes that if I just barely touch the cable that the HD disconnects and then connects back. I don't think that it has been pushed up against the wall or anything, but you never know.

Would anyone suggest trying another USB cable for the Western Digital My Book 250gb drive? If so, which one?

The drive is past warranty so no hope of going back to WD if it turns out to be the connecting port on the drive......

Thanks.


----------



## ilh

The drive was less than 48h old from when it first started crashing my THD. I decided to do an advance RMA through WD rather than do the return for replacement through Buy.com as I suspect I'll have a new drive much faster with this route, and I've had good luck with RMAs through WD in the past.

I'll give the second one a shot after more thorough testing on the PC before it goes in my THD. The last time I did the quick and extended read test before installation, but this time I'll probably do more than one pass and also include the write test in the mix.

Since I only had it in for a couple days, I didn't lose many recordings. My most valuable recordings were TTG'ed to my PC for safekeeping.

I'm glad the drive conclusively and rapidly fails WD's own drive diagnostics. I was worried this was some strange TiVo interaction where the drive was actually fine for PC use, but the diagnostics clearly indicate that is not the case. This makes RMA very easy.

BTW, this was the "Cavalry" 1TB internal disk from Buy.com. The drive goes through WD's RMA web site, including serial number check, just fine. I was slightly worried the Cavalry aspect of it could complicate things.

--Lee


----------



## richsadams

jlb said:


> Sort of not related to the thread, but I will try......
> 
> Along the lines of some folks have reported that their eSata USB cable that came with their My DVR Expander has not been great......
> 
> I have an external WD HD on my computer at home. I am finding that either the cable or the port on the HD is flaky. It seems sometimes that if I just barely touch the cable that the HD disconnects and then connects back. I don't think that it has been pushed up against the wall or anything, but you never know.
> 
> Would anyone suggest trying another USB cable for the Western Digital My Book 250gb drive? If so, which one?
> 
> The drive is past warranty so no hope of going back to WD if it turns out to be the connecting port on the drive......
> 
> Thanks.


IIRC there were several reports of the exact same problem when the WD My DVR Extenders were first introduced. Some had problems with the cable itself (some cables simply did not work) and others with the connector on the enclosure. Perhaps your My Book external drive on your PC suffers from the same issue.

I'm not clear if you have it connected via USB or eSATA. If it's USB you can get very good cables for very good pricing from monorpice.com or at any local CE store of course (no need for "gold plated" monster style cables, but stay away from the cheepies).

The best thing to do would be to connect it as an eSATA drive if at all possible using a SIIG Serial ATA external cable which is less than $10. That will eliminate the USB issues and give you much higher transfer speeds. If you don't have an eSATA connector available you can easily install a SATA PCI adapter card (if you have an open slot) like this one. I don't generally recommend Tiger Direct because of their lousy pricing, but they actually seem to have the best price at the moment ($19.99).


----------



## richsadams

ilh said:


> The drive was less than 48h old from when it first started crashing my THD. I decided to do an advance RMA through WD rather than do the return for replacement through Buy.com as I suspect I'll have a new drive much faster with this route, and I've had good luck with RMAs through WD in the past.
> 
> I'll give the second one a shot after more thorough testing on the PC before it goes in my THD. The last time I did the quick and extended read test before installation, but this time I'll probably do more than one pass and also include the write test in the mix.
> 
> Since I only had it in for a couple days, I didn't lose many recordings. My most valuable recordings were TTG'ed to my PC for safekeeping.
> 
> I'm glad the drive conclusively and rapidly fails WD's own drive diagnostics. I was worried this was some strange TiVo interaction where the drive was actually fine for PC use, but the diagnostics clearly indicate that is not the case. This makes RMA very easy.
> 
> BTW, this was the "Cavalry" 1TB internal disk from Buy.com. The drive goes through WD's RMA web site, including serial number check, just fine. I was slightly worried the Cavalry aspect of it could complicate things.
> 
> --Lee


Thanks for the update Lee...good info and glad it's the drive and not a TiVo issue as well. :up:

It may just be a coincidence this time, but it seems like Cavalry products get more than their share of complaints on this and other forums. Going through WD should ensure that you'll get a solid replacement in any case. Thanks again and let us know how it goes.


----------



## jlb

richsadams said:


> IIRC there were several reports of the exact same problem when the WD My DVR Extenders were first introduced. Some had problems with the cable itself (some cables simply did not work) and others with the connector on the enclosure. Perhaps your My Book external drive on your PC suffers from the same issue.
> 
> I'm not clear if you have it connected via USB or eSATA. If it's USB you can get very good cables for very good pricing from monorpice.com or at any local CE store of course (no need for "gold plated" monster style cables, but stay away from the cheepies).
> 
> The best thing to do would be to connect it as an eSATA drive if at all possible using a SIIG Serial ATA external cable which is less than $10. That will eliminate the USB issues and give you much higher transfer speeds. If you don't have an eSATA connector available you can easily install a SATA PCI adapter card (if you have an open slot) like this one. I don't generally recommend Tiger Direct because of their lousy pricing, but they actually seem to have the best price at the moment ($19.99).


Rich, I am hooked up via USB. I don't really need the speed increase if I went with sata/esata as you suggest. Plus, if I did that, wouldn't I also need an adapter to plug the sata cable into the My Book USB port. Between the SIIG cable, the PCI card, and an adapter, we're talking $40 and I don't yet know if it is the cord or the connector.

I think what I will do is try and call WD first. If no luck at all with them, then I'll just probably order a new cable from Monoprice. I love their stuff!


----------



## richsadams

jlb said:


> Rich, I am hooked up via USB. I don't really need the speed increase if I went with sata/esata as you suggest. Plus, if I did that, wouldn't I also need an adapter to plug the sata cable into the My Book USB port. Between the SIIG cable, the PCI card, and an adapter, we're talking $40 and I don't yet know if it is the cord or the connector.
> 
> I think what I will do is try and call WD first. If no luck at all with them, then I'll just probably order a new cable from Monoprice. I love their stuff!


Okay. When you said "eSata USB cable" in your post I assumed it was capable of both (having a USB as well as an eSATA connector). If you can switch to the eSATA connector you'll eliminate the loose connection problem. But if it's USB only, then another cable would be in order if WD won't come to the rescue.


----------



## jlb

WD says no way since I am out of warranty. No biggie. The cables at monoprice are very well priced. 6 foot would be fine, but 10 foot may give me room to place the drive in a different spot.

Thanks for your help!

[EDIT]
What's weird is that when it connects back, sometimes I get the "This device would perform faster in USB 2.0 port" or whatever. But it is going right into the back USB ports on the PC. This tends to tell me, combined with my problem per se, that maybe it is in fact the cable.

Anyways, just ordered a 10 foot cable from monoprice.


----------



## JayBird

With all this talk about lousy eSATA cables, I was wondering what people's experience has been with the eSATA cable that comes with the Antec MX-1. Is the included cable OK, or will I need to order a different cable?


----------



## richsadams

JayBird said:


> With all this talk about lousy eSATA cables, I was wondering what people's experience has been with the eSATA cable that comes with the Antec MX-1. Is the included cable OK, or will I need to order a different cable?


I bought an MX-1 back in March or so when it was discovered that you could add an expansion drive to Series3's using KS62. The cable it came with worked flawlessly until I removed it and installed a 1TB internal drive last October.

There were a flurry of reports of the eSATA cable Antec was sending out with the MX-1 as being faulty last summer though. That seemed to last about 45 to 60 days and then it died down. I attributed it to the sudden demand for the enclosures (everyone ran out of them for a few weeks) to Antec sourcing some poor quality cables at the time. IIRC anyone that had a problem was taken care of by Antec right away to their credit.

I don't recall seeing any complaints about the MX-1 or the eSATA cable that comes with it for several months now. Based on that the eSATA cable that Antec supplies with their MX-1 enclosures should work fine now IMHO, but YMMV of course. If you're worried you could always buy one of the SIIG cables and keep one or the other in a drawer JIC.


----------



## logicman1

JayBird said:


> With all this talk about lousy eSATA cables, I was wondering what people's experience has been with the eSATA cable that comes with the Antec MX-1. Is the included cable OK, or will I need to order a different cable?


I got my MX-1 back in January but opted to use the SIIG cable so I never tried the Antec supplied cable. The only physical difference I could see was the portion of the connectors on the SIIG cable measured from the shoulder to the end of the metallic part were a bit longer than on the Antec supplied cable.

In looking at all the discussion of eSata cables it appears that the eSata connector on the S3 may not be quite standard. Could this explain why the SIIG cables got on the recommended list?


----------



## kuokuo

I have a tivo-hd refurb from woot. I first upgraded to a 500gb Seagate 7200.10. Worked/works great. Then I saw the deal at buy.com for the 1gb WD gp drive. After upgrading using winmfs, the tivo hd crashed after a day and went into an infinite loop of powering up, few minutes screen, gsod and back to powering up -- all in the a 5 min span. Then, I tried a 750gb Seagate 7200.10. That crashed and did the infinite loop in about an hour. I also tried a Fry's Maxtor Basics 1Tb drive with 32mb cache. That also crashed and went into the infinite loop after one day. Now, I'm waiting on a Seagate 750gb DB35 to see how it works. 

Note: using winmfs, I tried restoring from a truncated backup of the 500 gb drive and mfscopy of the 500gb. Supersize option on. I also tested the 1TB drives with WD diagnostics and both passed using extended tests.


----------



## rlawlis

richsadams said:


> ... You might want to try the newer WD AV GP DVR dedicated drive, the Hitachi CinemaStar or the Samsung chewy2314 recommends. I'm a Seagate man myself, but I've read more than a few negative posts about their new 1TB drives.
> :up:


Has anyone had success w/ the WD5000AVVS or 7500AVVS?


----------



## RayHs

I'm wondering if some of these boot up issues may be the Tivo power supply not being able to provide enough power for the hard drive especially during the drive's initial spin-up when it draws more power. It's hard to believe that it would be so picky with drives that use a standard protocol.

Maybe a cap upgrade on the power supply will make things more stable in general.


----------



## dwit

RayHs said:


> I'm wondering if some of these boot up issues may be the Tivo power supply not being able to provide enough power for the hard drive especially during the drive's initial spin-up when it draws more power. It's hard to believe that it would be so picky with drives that use a standard protocol.
> 
> Maybe a cap upgrade on the power supply will make things more stable in general.


But there are thousands of other drives of this size, in all other makes and models, that the Tivos are successfully employing?


----------



## kuokuo

Perhaps the refurbs are not up to the same quality of the normal tivo hds? I mean, they may work with the stock drives, but when pushing the power supply, some may just crap out?


----------



## chewy2314

kuokuo said:


> Perhaps the refurbs are not up to the same quality of the normal tivo hds? I mean, they may work with the stock drives, but when pushing the power supply, some may just crap out?


I have a refurb woot.com THD and didn't have any luck with the desktop 500Gb and 750Gb versions of the WD GP drives. I want to say it has something to do with the firmware (WD can then charge more for an "AV" version!). I have no issues with the Samsung F1 750Gb. BTW, (out of stock of course), zipzoomfly had them for $118 + shipping.


----------



## kuokuo

Yea, if the seagate db 35, I'll look at the F1. I'm also thinking of getting an esata case and testing the power supply theory...


----------



## jlib

richsadams said:


> ...The best thing to do would be to connect it as an eSATA drive if at all possible using a SIIG Serial ATA external cable which is less than $10. That will eliminate the USB issues and give you much higher transfer speeds. If you don't have an eSATA connector available you can easily install a SATA PCI adapter card (if you have an open slot) like this one. I don't generally recommend Tiger Direct because of their lousy pricing, but they actually seem to have the best price at the moment ($19.99).


Note that that Vantec card from Tiger is an old design and only supports the original 1.5Gb/sec SATA spec and has no eSATA port on it, just a regular SATA port on the outside and one on the inside. Will work fine with a bare drive.


----------



## richsadams

jlib said:


> Note that that Vantec card from Tiger is an old design and only supports the original 1.5Gb/sec SATA spec and has no eSATA port on it and, just a regular SATA port on the outside and one on the inside. Will work fine with a bare drive.


Good points, thanks! :up:


----------



## JohnnyO

kuokuo said:


> I have a tivo-hd refurb from woot. I first upgraded to a 500gb Seagate 7200.10. Worked/works great.


After your failures, are you able to successfully put the 500 Gb drive back in the TiVo and use it?

-- just curious if some latest problem has cropped up in your TiVo unit.


----------



## kuokuo

Yes, I am


----------



## Clentz

jlib said:


> Note that that Vantec card from Tiger is an old design and only supports the original 1.5Gb/sec SATA spec and has no eSATA port on it and, just a regular SATA port on the outside and one on the inside. Will work fine with a bare drive.


I have posted before that the earlier pleminary Esata spec had a shorter connector. (The later TIVO is correct)
Also, I believe that longer than one meter cable length is unwise. (I had problems with a two meter cable even though it was certified Esata 2)
Carl


----------



## jlib

Clentz said:


> I have posted before that the earlier pleminary Esata spec had a shorter connector.


Ah, so that's why there are still so many cables around that just don't work well.


----------



## kuokuo

okay, I have the 1TB maxtor in a kingwin esata enclosure hooked up to the tivo hd with the seagate 500gb. We'll see how it goes...


----------



## lrhorer

RayHs said:


> I'm wondering if some of these boot up issues may be the Tivo power supply not being able to provide enough power for the hard drive especially during the drive's initial spin-up when it draws more power. It's hard to believe that it would be so picky with drives that use a standard protocol.
> 
> Maybe a cap upgrade on the power supply will make things more stable in general.


While it is possible this could be the case for some drives, I know for an absolute fact it is not the case for every incompatible drive. I have a stock S3 with an external Seagate Barracuda 750G drive that has been performing flawlessly for well over a year. Then about a year ago I bought a Weaknees 1T S3 and added a Hitachi Deskstar 1T in June. It also has performed swimmingly. A few months ago, however, I purchased a stock TiVo HD and wanted to upgrade it with a 500G hard drive, so I bought a Hitachi Deskstar 500G and used WinMFS to copy the data from the stock 160G drive to the 500. Nothing - and I mean nothing - would induce the TiVo HD to boot from that drive. It would POST and bring up the TiVo sunrise, then it would sit there apparently doing nothing for about a minute, and finally it would reboot and start all over again. No GSOD, and the /var partition was never mounted. I have no reason to believe it even loaded the bootstrap or the OS. Using an external power supply made no difference, and neither did changing any of the boot parms. It was late Sunday night, and the only store selling large hard drives that late around here was Wal-Mart, so I drove over to Wal-Mart and bought a 320G Western Digital drive. It worked just great, and now it sits in an Antec MX-1 housing booting the TiVo. The original stock drive sits unpowered bolted inside the TiVo HD for safekeeping. The 500G Hitachi is attached to a multi-boot box used to access my corporate VPN, play music, and maintain TiVos. It's never hiccoughed even once despite heavy use.


----------



## lrhorer

dwit said:


> But there are thousands of other drives of this size, in all other makes and models, that the Tivos are successfully employing?


I wouldn't say, "Thousands." I doubt there are even 1000 different models of SATA drive out there. There may not even be 200 different models, especially if we limit the scope to drives larger than 160G. There are, however, quite a large number. I've used six different ones which worked and one which does not.


----------



## lrhorer

kuokuo said:


> Perhaps the refurbs are not up to the same quality of the normal tivo hds? I mean, they may work with the stock drives, but when pushing the power supply, some may just crap out?


Again, it's possible, but I doubt it. See my post above. Since the Hitachi 500 uses a bit more current on the 12V supply, this possibility was the first th9ng which crossed my mind. Powering the drive from an external supply eliminated that possibility. What's more, the WD 320 doesn't use any less current than the Hitachi, but it works just fine both powered from the TiVo P.S. or set up (as it is now) as an external drive.


----------



## dwit

lrhorer said:


> I wouldn't say, "Thousands." I doubt there are even 1000 different models of SATA drive out there. There may not even be 200 different models, especially if we limit the scope to drives larger than 160G. There are, however, quite a large number. I've used six different ones which worked and one which does not.


Just thousands of drives, of various makes and models, or thousands from a few makes and models. Basically, thousands of drives are being employed in these units.

Sorry you misunderstood.


----------



## JayBird

Ok, I got tired of waiting for the 1TB DB35.4 drives to appear on the scene, so I ordered a pair of 750GB DB35.3 drives (ST3750840SCE) from nowdirect.com for $149.99 each with free UPS ground shipping. That deal was too good to pass up...

The drives arrived well packaged, with each drive surrounded by foam in it's own box inside the shipping box. As far as I'm concerned, this is the best way to package drives for shipping. Triple thumbs up for nowdirect.com.

The upgrade went flawlessly using WinMFS. I picked up two of the recommended USB to SATA adapters, which I used to connect the original drive and one of the new drives to my computer. By using the USB adapters, I didn't have to shut down the computer at all during the upgrade process. The USB adapters performed plenty fast for me. I think the people who complained about slow performance using these adapters must have been using computers that don't support USB 2.0, in which case, it would certainly be substantially slower. It's also important when using the USB adapters to connect the drives directly to a USB port on your computer, not through a USB hub (which might not support USB 2.0), particularly not connecting both drives to the same USB hub, which would further cut the performance of the copy operation in half.

I installed the 2nd drive into the recommended Antec MX-1 case, and then connected the MX-1 to the computer with a USB cable when it came time to marry it to the new A drive.

Once done, I installed the new A drive in my TiVo HD in place of the original, and reinstalled it in my equipment rack, along with the external drive in the MX-1.

It booted just fine the first time... with 198 HD hours!!! Much better than the 20 hours that you get with the original drive...

Note that the eSATA cable that came with the MX-1 appears to work just fine.

The only thing that I encountered when I first booted it up was the strange problem that people have been seeing as discussed in other threads on this forum (which can happen whether the TiVo has been upgraded or not, as I had it happen once when I first got my TiVo HD, long before I did the upgrade) where when selecting Live TV, you just get a black screen, and then once you go back to the menus, the background is also black.

Rebooting my TiVo HD solved that problem. I assume that this wasn't related to or otherwise caused by the upgrade since I had seen it before (as have others).

The whole process took about 2 1/2 hours from the time I started removing the TiVo HD from the equipment rack, until it was reinstalled and up and working. Can't beat that!

Now it's time to call up Cox to send out a technician to install a cable card... Let's hope that I get someone competent...


----------



## kaczmar2

*AV-GP WD10EVCS or GP-WD10EACS*

Both are now $223 ($211 with %5 off coupon) at buy.com.

So, price not factoring in, which would you choose, understanding that Tivo doesn't use the special dvr features of the av series (SilkStream, etc.)

Is there _any_ advantage of one drive over the other (besides which one is in stock


----------



## ilh

I would likely buy the EVCS if the price increment was small, which it is currently. Honestly, I seriously doubt there is _any_ advantage to it in a TiVo at this time.

An update to my EACS saga... I have the warranty replacement drive in hand and am running a second round of long tests. The full surface write test succeeded this afternoon, and I'm following up with the full surface read test and will then check raw SMART status afterwards. If successful, it is going in the TiVo tonight. I hope this one lasts longer than 48 hours.

I do have to give WD credit for a very quick warranty replacement. I did the "advance" RMA, which requires a credit card. They ship immediately and put a hold (for a ridiculous list price of $360, nearly double what I payed) on the card and will charge if they don't receive the bad drive back within 30 days. They shipped the replacement UPS 2-day air.


----------



## jlib

kaczmar2 said:


> *AV-GP WD10EVCS or GP-WD10EACS*
> 
> Both are now $223 ($211 with %5 off coupon) at buy.com.
> 
> So, price not factoring in, which would you choose, understanding that Tivo doesn't use the special dvr features of the av series (SilkStream, etc.)
> 
> Is there _any_ advantage of one drive over the other (besides which one is in stock


Yes, with the WD10EVCS you can skip the acoustic management step using a utility such as Hitachi Feature Tool. It is already as quiet as possible. It is also more compatible for internal use in the S3. So, if they are the same price or if you have an S3 then go with that model.


----------



## richsadams

JayBird said:


> Ok, I got tired of waiting for the 1TB DB35.4 drives to appear on the scene, so I ordered a pair of 750GB DB35.3 drives (ST3750840SCE) from nowdirect.com for $149.99 each with free UPS ground shipping. That deal was too good to pass up...<snap>


Excellent wrtie-up and congrats on your new, much larger recording space! :up:

BTW, you are correct, the "black screen" issue has been seen even with the approved My DVR Expander.

Thanks again for the post and enjoy! :up:


----------



## richsadams

jlib said:


> Yes, with the WD10EVCS you can skip the acoustic management step using a utility such as Hitachi Feature Tool. It is already as quiet as possible. It is also more compatible for internal use in the S3. So, if they are the same price or if you have an S3 then go with that model.


+1 :up:

Plus the current GP-WD10EACS is not compatible as an internal upgrade for the Series3.

The WD AV-GP WD10EVCS would be the way to go for any and every TiVo Series3, TiVo HD internal upgrade and expansion drive application going forward IMHO.


----------



## rashid11

Success story to report : WD10EVCS in Tivo HD. I had some faint clicking (head actuator) noises coming out of the Tivo after the upgrade. So I got the Hitachi utility and adjusted AAM down to 128. Much quieter now. Buy.com - it took 10 days for the drive to show up. All the while their system was showing the drive as "sent to warehouse".


----------



## richsadams

rashid11 said:


> Success story to report : WD10EVCS in Tivo HD. I had some faint clicking (head actuator) noises coming out of the Tivo after the upgrade. So I got the Hitachi utility and adjusted AAM down to 128. Much quieter now. Buy.com - it took 10 days for the drive to show up. All the while their system was showing the drive as "sent to warehouse".


Welcome to the forum. :up:

It's interesting (and valuable info) that you had to adjust the AAM as I would have thought that the WD AV GP drives would already have been tweaked to the lowest setting. Do you remember where it was set before you reduced it to 128?

Also, what size drive is it and did you happen to write down the full model number?

Congrats on a job well done!


----------



## ilh

I haven't seen a recent WD drive that would take an acoustic setting other than 128 or 254, including the WD1600AVBS (7200rpm DVR-specific drive) that comes in the THD. I did find the stock drive set to quiet or 128.

--Lee


----------



## richsadams

ilh said:


> I haven't seen a recent WD drive that would take an acoustic setting other than 128 or 254, including the WD1600AVBS (7200rpm DVR-specific drive) that comes in the THD. I did find the stock drive set to quiet or 128.
> 
> --Lee


My experience as well.


----------



## digi12digi

I was able to install 1TB WD Green - wd10eacs(OEM) as an internal SATA and Seagate 500MB as an external SATA on my TivoHD.

But I would like to share that both drives are inside the TivoHD. I spliced the power for both drives and affixed the 2nd drive to the inside cover of tivo by using heavy duty double tapes.

It is working quite well and having both drives inside the tivo helps with the noise levels as well.

Temperature levels are quite low since the outer casing of tivo helps dissipate the heat coming off the drive.

I must admit it took me couple of days to get it working... And I just couldnt get the 1TB use as the external drive. Tivo would keep rebooting at welcome powering up screen.


----------



## jlib

jlib said:


> Yes, with the WD10EVCS you can skip the acoustic management step using a utility such as Hitachi Feature Tool. It is already as quiet as possible...





rashid11 said:


> Success story to report : WD10EVCS in Tivo HD. I had some faint clicking (head actuator) noises coming out of the Tivo after the upgrade. So I got the Hitachi utility and adjusted AAM down to 128. Much quieter now...


Your experience implies that it is probably a good idea to run the Feature Tool on the WD10EVCS to verify or edit the AAM. I stand corrected.

Edit: It is later noted that the drive in question is actually the WD10EACS not the WD10EVCS as claimed so original comment holds.


----------



## digi12digi

I just used a regular SATA cable plugged in to the second port reserved for external drive and attached it to the 2nd drive inside the tivo. It is ideal to use short high quality SATA cable.

I guess to make this setup better, SATA over IP anyone?


----------



## jlib

digi12digi said:


> ...I would like to share that both drives are inside the TivoHD. I spliced the power for both drives and affixed the 2nd drive to the inside cover of tivo by using heavy duty double tapes...


That is a very creative approach and it implies that the power supply is robust enough for two drives (or at least those two drives). Odd that the WD10EACS was not happy on the "external" port, though. Congratulations on a successful upgrade.!


----------



## digi12digi

Thank you... 1.5TB... Now off to getting all my favorite movies in HD on to Tivo. 

Yup - that worried me as well that the psu would not be sufficient enough for both drives which would cause tivo to act erratic and quirky. So far havent noticed anything out of the blue. Nothing I havent seen before the upgrade.

Green WD uses 5watts less than a regular Hard drive (5400 to 7200rpms) which consumes betw 20 to 35watts. I had hoped that Tivo would built a PSU with a buffer protection of more then that.

We shall see the long term effects... It has been a week so far.


----------



## ilh

The stock THD drive is a WD1600AVBS that is 7200rpm and uses 6.2W idle and 6.6W read/write. A GP 1TB uses 4.0W and 7.4W, respectively. I'm not sure where you're getting 20-35W for a regular drive or 5W of savings.

Doesn't hard mounting the Seagate, which has no AAM, to the case itself make a lot of noise? In my experience, Seagates are relatively noisy. Even the 160GB DB35 that was in the Verizon Moto DVR I had for a month was quite noisy (could hear seeks across the room when TV was off).

It is an interesting idea squeezing two drives in, but I'd be concerned about noise and the prospect of the drive falling onto the motherboard and shorting things out with the way you've mounted it.

--Lee


----------



## DallasFlier

kaczmar2 said:


> *AV-GP WD10EVCS or GP-WD10EACS*
> 
> Both are now $223 ($211 with %5 off coupon) at buy.com.
> 
> So, price not factoring in, which would you choose, understanding that Tivo doesn't use the special dvr features of the av series (SilkStream, etc.)
> 
> Is there _any_ advantage of one drive over the other (besides which one is in stock


How/where does one get the 5% off coupon you mention? BTW, the EVCS shows out of stock at the moment, but they're accepting orders, so hopefully in soon.

EDIT: Nevermind, quick google search found the coupon.


----------



## rashid11

richsadams said:


> Welcome to the forum. :up:
> 
> It's interesting (and valuable info) that you had to adjust the AAM as I would have thought that the WD AV GP drives would already have been tweaked to the lowest setting. Do you remember where it was set before you reduced it to 128?
> 
> Also, what size drive is it and did you happen to write down the full model number?
> 
> Congrats on a job well done!


The stock setting was 256. Took a long while to get my SATA RAID controllers to emulate IDE (through BIOS settings) before the utility finally saw the drive.

The drive is 1TB, from buy.com, CAIS01000. Don't have the exact model of the drive, as it is now inside of the TIVO, but it one of the 2 GP drives.


----------



## ilh

That's the WD10E*A*CS in retail packaging by Cavalry, not the *V*. I just installed the same in my THD.


----------



## digi12digi

We should be concerned of the seek/read/write and startup power consumptions. 500gb seagate consumes 12.6w seek and 7.4w for the 1TB GP which adds up to exactly 20watts of seek power consumption. I guestimated a safer number of up to 35watts needed for startup power for both drives.

Having the drives inside the tivohd suppresses the noise. Also, I am not literally hard mounting the GP on the case, but rather using double sided tapes which acts as a nice cushion. I have the seagate drive mounted where the original tivo drive were.

About 3 years ago, I did the same thing of upgrading my philips directv box by adding 2 80gb drives inside. wow 160GB !!!  One was mounted inside the bottom of the case as well and to this date I am still using the box as a standalone and I had no problems.

When you use, if you use, double sided tapes, make sure you purchase heavy duty ones and also make sure you use enough tape to cover the whole drive. After that, apply a little pressure by putting couple of thick books for couple of hour, after all that, you will have hard time getting your drive out even if you wanted to. 

One note is that some drives have holes that you shouldnt cover, make sure not to tape them over.


----------



## jlib

digi12digi said:


> ...Having the drives inside the tivohd suppresses the noise. Also, I am not literally hard mounting the GP on the case, but rather using double sided tapes which acts as a nice cushion...


 I can see how that would actually absorb sound. It will also have the effect of thermally insulating the drive, though. I guess the only way to know to what extent is to get a reading from the drive with an IR thermometer after running enclosed for a while.

Another way of I have mounted drives in a TiVo in the past was to just glue four foam earplugs as legs on the drive and simply lay it on the mainboard wherever it would fit. Of course, this can't be used for a unit that is going to be transported but is perfectly fine for a installed and static TiVo.


----------



## robostock

DallasFlier said:


> How/where does one get the 5% off coupon you mention? BTW, the EVCS shows out of stock at the moment, but they're accepting orders, so hopefully in soon.
> 
> EDIT: Nevermind, quick google search found the coupon.


FWIW even after all the savings from buy.com I would NEVER buy anything from them again. I had to return my DOA WD AV-GP WD10EVCS and it has been a lesson in futility.

As it was stated in a previous post, once the buy.com warehouse receives your drive, it takes about 10 business days from the time they (warehouse) receive it, to the time that the website shows that it has been returned.

Once their website shows that it has been returned, you then have to wait 2-3 business days for them to process and ship it out and depending where you live, an additional 5-7 days for it to arrive.

ETA you get it back to your front door: 1 month

Worth the 5% or extra any other discount? For me, NEVER again.


----------



## ilh

I'm glad I dealt with WD directly on my failed drive. With advance RMA (requiring credit card hold), I had my replacement drive in less than 48h. I then shipped the defective one back. I knew that dealing with buy.com would be a LOT slower than that.

--Lee


----------



## robostock

ilh said:


> I'm glad I dealt with WD directly on my failed drive. With advance RMA (requiring credit card hold), I had my replacement drive in less than 48h. I then shipped the defective one back. I knew that dealing with buy.com would be a LOT slower than that.
> 
> --Lee


Now you tell me! 

Thanks for the heads up!!


----------



## Cmore32

TivoHD, 9.2, WD 160GB disk internal:
Used WinMFS tool set (beta 8) to add a new Seagate DB35 750GB to my 2 week new system. Before using MFsadd, I ran the Backup Tivo Drive, Backup Bootpage, Backup Kernel, and saved the disk information. 

I connected the Tivo Disk and new disk via USB to my laptop running WinXP Pro. I used external eSata cases to power the disks (HP laptops are known to have weak USB ports so I did not use the eSata to USB converter as it appears to be powered by the USB port). The external disk is mounted in a Max 4 Thermaltake that can be found on Amazon for $52. This eSATA case includes both USB and a heavy duty 3 foot SATA cable with locking connectors. No need to buy another SATA cable! I actually purchased 2 cases in order to mount the Tivo's drive (I'll use it later for a new backup disk).

After adding the external disk, the TivoHD does not show an 'External' disk, it just shows the increased recording capability. The TivoHD came with about 20HD hours of recording capability. After the upgrade, the system settings now show: 119 HD hours or 1127 SD hours.

The Seagate 750 DB35 DVR drive pricing on Amazon is $193 to $238 Of course I paid the $238 before I found the lower price. These drives can be difficult to locate on Amazon. Just be careful to match the manufacturer's part number.

The TivoHD is scheduled to be upgraded from 9.2 to 9.3 within the next 2 weeks. Hope all goes well.

Cannot thank the authors of WinMFS enough!


----------



## SupahDave

I have a Series 3 tivo with a 750gb Seagate drive external drive for expanded storage. The Seagate is beginning to fail and I wanted to know if anyone knows if it is possible to clone or copy this drive to a new hard drive and still use it with my current setup and not lose my programs? Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## cdeckert219

robostock said:


> As it was stated in a previous post, once the buy.com warehouse receives your drive, it takes about 10 business days from the time they (warehouse) receive it, to the time that the website shows that it has been returned.
> 
> Once their website shows that it has been returned, you then have to wait 2-3 business days for them to process and ship it out and depending where you live, an additional 5-7 days for it to arrive.
> 
> ETA you get it back to your front door: 1 month


Similar for me... the drive arrived DOA. I returned quickly. Waiting, waiting. They were going to send a replacement, but they were out of stock. I had to go through PayPal to finally get some action. 2 weeks after they received the drive back I finally got a refund. Went to Fry's today and bought another 1TB for my 2nd new HD. This one is a Seagate. The Maxtor 1TB in my 1st Woot special has been working perfectly for 2 weeks now...quiet, also.


----------



## richsadams

SupahDave said:


> I have a Series 3 tivo with a 750gb Seagate drive external drive for expanded storage. The Seagate is beginning to fail and I wanted to know if anyone knows if it is possible to clone or copy this drive to a new hard drive and still use it with my current setup and not lose my programs? Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Welcome to the forum. Sorry it's under hardship circumstances.

AFAIK no one has "cloned" their expansion drive for replacement. However since TiVo identifies eSATA drives by the model number, it's quite possible that if you copy the data to the same exact drive you may be able to "fool" TiVo into thinking it is the same one. You would need to ensure that after you unplug TiVo and your existing drive that you do not power TiVo up again until you have the new drive connected. If you go that route, please let us know what happens; it will be very valuable information.

BTW, what leads you to believe that your Seagate drive is failing? Can you give us details?


----------



## lrhorer

dwit said:


> Just thousands of drives, of various makes and models, or thousands from a few makes and models. Basically, thousands of drives are being employed in these units.


Ah! OK, then, it's possible there are thousands of upgraded Series III class TiVos out there. 'Certainly at least hundreds.


----------



## lrhorer

Has anyone had any success upgrading a TiVo HD beyond 2.2TB using an eSATA RAID system?

What about drives larger than 1TB? I read a report where Hitachi said they thought drives as large as 10TB might be available within the next 5 years. Has anyone seen any projections when a 1.5TB or 2TB drive might be released?


----------



## ilh

Just an update. My WD RMA replacement WD10EACS has been going strong for 4 days now. The first was just a dud.

It does make a bit more seek noise than the stock THD drive, but that is to be expected with 4 platters vs. 1.


----------



## JohnnyO

ilh said:


> Just an update. My WD RMA replacement WD10EACS has been going strong for 4 days now. The first was just a dud.


Thanks. I've got two WD10EACS's scheduled to arrive tomorrow if I don't miss the FedEx truck, that is.


----------



## richsadams

ilh said:


> Just an update. My WD RMA replacement WD10EACS has been going strong for 4 days now. The first was just a dud.
> 
> It does make a bit more seek noise than the stock THD drive, but that is to be expected with 4 platters vs. 1.


Good news! Congrats and thanks for the follow up! :up:


----------



## richsadams

JohnnyO said:


> Thanks. I've got two WD10EACS's scheduled to arrive tomorrow if I don't miss the FedEx truck, that is.


Let us know how your upgrade goes. :up: (TiVo HD or Series3, internal or external?)


----------



## 1283

ilh said:


> It does make a bit more seek noise than the stock THD drive, but that is to be expected with 4 platters vs. 1.


Did you change the AAM setting?


----------



## dwit

My Cavalry/WD10EACS purchased from Buy.com arrived in perfect, pristine condition.

I first prepped and mounted it as an internal in my Tivo HD. It operated as internal perfectly. Just wanted to test it there first.

It is now housed in the Antec MX1 case and operating perfectly as the external storage, married to the internal Hitachi Deskstar.

I say everything went perfectly, but in reality, I could not adjust the aam with the Hitachi tools. Don't know why. I have used the tool successfully on a WD and Maxtor(pre SG) ide drives, but for some reason can't figure how to use it on either of my Tivo sata drives. Although I still cannot hear either as it is.


----------



## ilh

c3 said:


> Did you change the AAM setting?


Yes, using hdparm and the Hitachi tools, but I might pull the drive out to double check that the setting stuck. Every time I fired up the Hitachi tools it said AAM was off, so I have some doubts, but I am not familiar enough with them to know if they simply don't read the current state properly.


----------



## mr_zorg

I just picked up this 1TB eSATA drive and cable at my local Fry's Electronics for $199.99 and $6.99 respectively. I'd heard the Series 3's were picky (indeed, the first one I tried some months ago did NOT work), but this combo worked like a charm. 165 HD hours or 1561 SD hours -- woot!

http://shop2.outpost.com/product/5518520
http://shop2.outpost.com/product/5173976

Just thought I'd share my success story...


----------



## richsadams

mr_zorg said:


> I just picked up this 1TB eSATA drive and cable at my local Fry's Electronics for $199.99 and $6.99 respectively. I'd heard the Series 3's were picky (indeed, the first one I tried some months ago did NOT work), but this combo worked like a charm. 165 HD hours or 1561 SD hours -- woot!
> 
> http://shop2.outpost.com/product/5518520
> http://shop2.outpost.com/product/5173976
> 
> Just thought I'd share my success story...


Congrats! AFAIK you're the first to use this combination. Keep us posted on its behavior.

BTW, looks like the drive is back up to its $279.99 price tag already. Newegg has it for $199 however.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-Hard+Drives+-+External-_-AcomData-_-22216041


----------



## ajburgh

I just wanted to add my thanks to all for keeping this FAQ up to date. I upgraded my TivoHD with an internal 1 TB Hitachi CinemaStar on Friday and it's been working like a charm. RCN finally came by yesterday to install the cablecards and I'm ready for some serious HD recording now. 

I had originally added a WD My DVR Expander, but that's going back to BestBuy now. I had been running that for about a week and already once had a problem that the cable got partially detached when moving it. 

I have a 750 GB in an MX-1 case ready to be added to the TivoHD as external upgrade, but I'm holding off on that until I need more space (if ever). I think internals are much more reliable anyway.

Abel


----------



## jlib

richsadams said:


> Congrats! AFAIK you're the first to use this combination. Keep us posted on its behavior.


Note that the AcomData enclosure is fanless.


----------



## ilh

And reviewers at Newegg said it ran very HOT.


----------



## JohnnyO

richsadams said:


> Let us know how your upgrade goes. :up: (TiVo HD or Series3, internal or external?)


These drives will be used as internal (and only) drives in two TiVo HD DVRs.

I ran the WD quick and extended tests overnight on the two drives. They both passed.

I was going to set AAM with the Hitachi tool, but it seems the OS on the Hitachi CD can't deal with the SATA RAID controller in my Dell E520. 

Oh well - the drives seem pretty quiet as it is.

Next step (for another night) is to do the MFSCOPY from WinMFS. I might just go "old school" and use the MFSLive Linux Boot CD since I'm used to that method from upgrading my DirecTV HDVR2 DVRs.


----------



## rashid11

See if you can set your Dell, through BIOS, to "emulate IDE" - this is what I had to do to get it to work with Hitachi tools.

I do recommend you disconnect the stock drive(s), JIC . You can boot off a floppy (assuming you can still find a floppy  or CD



JohnnyO said:


> These drives will be used as internal (and only) drives in two TiVo HD DVRs.
> 
> I ran the WD quick and extended tests overnight on the two drives. They both passed.
> 
> I was going to set AAM with the Hitachi tool, but it seems the OS on the Hitachi CD can't deal with the SATA RAID controller in my Dell E520.
> 
> Oh well - the drives seem pretty quiet as it is.
> 
> Next step (for another night) is to do the MFSCOPY from WinMFS. I might just go "old school" and use the MFSLive Linux Boot CD since I'm used to that method from upgrading my DirecTV HDVR2 DVRs.


----------



## JohnnyO

rashid11 said:


> See if you can set your Dell, through BIOS, to "emulate IDE" - this is what I had to do to get it to work with Hitachi tools.
> 
> I do recommend you disconnect the stock drive(s), JIC . You can boot off a floppy (assuming you can still find a floppy  or CD


Yes, I think you are correct that I would want to disconnect my working Windows drive if I did this.

I guess I could disconnect the drive, make the BIOS change, run the AAM utility, and then change the BIOS back, and reattach the drive without causing any long term problem.

Thanks,

John


----------



## worried12345

Hi,
I'm new to Tivo - got Tivo HD a couple of weeks ago and already want to extend the capacity (imagine that). So I bought WD10EVCS drive and Antec MX-1 enclousure.
But as I understand it, I can't just simply connect this combo to my TivoHD external SATA connection. Am I right?


----------



## ilh

Correct. You'll need to pull your original drive, attach to PC, and run WinMFS to "marry" the two drives.

If you're going to do all that, you might as well just "copy" the original drive to the 1TB drive and just use that internally. The 160GB original drive is a drop in the bucket compared to the 1TB, and having a single internal drive is more reliable than internal + external. If your 1TB ever has problems, you can always drop the original drive back in to get up to speed immediately. At least that was my thinking, and I had a WD10EACS and an MX-1.


----------



## worried12345

ilh said:


> Correct. You'll need to pull your original drive, attach to PC, and run WinMFS to "marry" the two drives.
> 
> If you're going to do all that, you might as well just "copy" the original drive to the 1TB drive and just use that internally. The 160GB original drive is a drop in the bucket compared to the 1TB, and having a single internal drive is more reliable than internal + external. If your 1TB ever has problems, you can always drop the original drive back in to get up to speed immediately. At least that was my thinking, and I had a WD10EACS and an MX-1.


Thank you!
How difficult (and dangerous) to do it in your opinion? Basically, I obviously don't want to mess up my original TivoHD drive. Sorry for dumb questions (I've never used WinMFS before). My desktop doesn't have SATA connections/drives, so I'm guessing I'll need two SATA to USB 2.0 adapters (with power) to connect the original TivoHD drive and the new WD 1TB to my PC to work with WinMSF? Do I need to use different commands in WinMSF if I want to keep the original THD drive and use the new one as external, vs if I want to replace the original drive with the new one. Thanks a lot.


----------



## chrishicks

so I just bought a My DVR Expander and my S3 will not recognize it. I've plugged and unplugged everything 10 times so far and nothing. I just get a "external storage not detected" message. I'm thinking my esata connector is dead too. i already have issues with my cable card slot 1 so why not this too...

and yep, i trimmed back a bit of the shielding on the cable after the 2nd try. anyone else just not have any luck getting their tivo to recgnize the drive?


----------



## richsadams

chrishicks said:


> so I just bought a My DVR Expander and my S3 will not recognize it. I've plugged and unplugged everything 10 times so far and nothing. I just get a "external storage not detected" message. I'm thinking my esata connector is dead too. i already have issues with my cable card slot 1 so why not this too...
> 
> and yep, i trimmed back a bit of the shielding on the cable after the 2nd try. anyone else just not have any luck getting their tivo to recgnize the drive?


Assuming you followed the steps correctly (in the exact order)?

1. Unplug TiVo
2. Connect your expansion drive's eSATA cable to the enclosure and TiVo
2. Plug your expansion drive in
3. Plug TiVo in
4. Follow the menu instructions

AFAIK no one has ever reported a faulty eSATA connector on their TiVo (although that's not an impossibility) so the odds are that the cable is the problem. (There should be no need to trim the WD My DVR Expander cable BTW) Unfortunately there are numerous reports of the supplied cables being faulty or not working at all.

You have a couple of choices. You can return the drive and get a new one (which will get you a new eSATA cable). Or you can order a new cable from the recommended list on the very first post on this thread (Section III, #26)...less than $10. This one works very well.

IIRC there have also been two reports of the WD My DVR Expander arriving DOA and they had to be returned for a replacement.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


----------



## richsadams

worried12345 said:


> Thank you!
> How difficult (and dangerous) to do it in your opinion? Basically, I obviously don't want to mess up my original TivoHD drive. Sorry for dumb questions (I've never used WinMFS before). My desktop doesn't have SATA connections/drives, so I'm guessing I'll need two SATA to USB 2.0 adapters (with power) to connect the original TivoHD drive and the new WD 1TB to my PC to work with WinMSF? Do I need to use different commands in WinMSF if I want to keep the original THD drive and use the new one as external, vs if I want to replace the original drive with the new one. Thanks a lot.


It's not difficult and certainly not dangerous to upgrade your internal hard drive. If you've ever removed and replaced a hard drive in a PC, you can do it.  Read through the very first post on this thread...it should answer all of your questions.

WinMFS is a terribly easy program to use. It can be downloaded at www.MFSLive.org.

ilh is dead on...don't waste your time trying to marry your new drive as an eSATA drive. Just install your new drive internally and put your original drive on the shelf for safe keeping. If you find you need more than 144 hours of HD recording space, you can always add another 1TB drive later.

That said, upgrading your internal drive will be a cinch since you don't need to do anything but copy the existing image to the new drive. It will take you longer to remove and replace the drive than running the actual program. I think it took me about 45 minutes all together. Now that I've done it once...it might take 15.  Read the directions on this and the MFSLive site and if you still have questions, don't hesitate to ask! :up:


----------



## worried12345

richsadams said:


> It's not difficult and certainly not dangerous to upgrade your internal hard drive. If you've ever removed and replaced a hard drive in a PC, you can do it.  Read through the very first post on this thread...it should answer all of your questions.
> 
> WinMFS is a terribly easy program to use. It can be downloaded at www.MFSLive.org.
> 
> ilh is dead on...don't waste your time trying to marry your new drive as an eSATA drive. Just install your new drive internally and put your original drive on the shelf for safe keeping. If you find you need more than 144 hours of HD recording space, you can always add another 1TB drive later.
> 
> That said, upgrading your internal drive will be a cinch since you don't need to do anything but copy the existing image to the new drive. It will take you longer to remove and replace the drive than running the actual program. I think it took me about 45 minutes all together. Now that I've done it once...it might take 15.  Read the directions on this and the MFSLive site and if you still have questions, don't hesitate to ask! :up:


Thank you Rich! I'll go with the single drive solution. And since I already bought MX-1 enclosure (pretty good price), I'll use it as a Sata -> USB 2.0adapter (instead of buying another special one) and will keep it for future. I don't have any recording that I'd like or need to keep, so it looks like I can use this enclosure for a two-step process - 1. Connect the original TivoHD drive only (using MX-1) to the USB port on my PC externaly and back it up to the file using WinMSF; 2. Replace the original drive with the new WD 1TB drive (in the enclosure) and restore it from the file. Did I read it correctly? Thanks again.


----------



## richsadams

worried12345 said:


> Thank you Rich! I'll go with the single drive solution. And since I already bought MX-1 enclosure (pretty good price), I'll use it as a Sata -> USB 2.0adapter (instead of buying another special one) and will keep it for future. I don't have any recording that I'd like or need to keep, so it looks like I can use this enclosure for a two-step process - 1. Connect the original TivoHD drive only (using MX-1) to the USB port on my PC externaly and back it up to the file using WinMSF; 2. Replace the original drive with the new WD 1TB drive (in the enclosure) and restore it from the file. Did I read it correctly? Thanks again.


That's the way to go! :up:

P.S. Once you're finished, you can change your forum name to TiVoPro!


----------



## JohnnyO

rashid11 said:


> See if you can set your Dell, through BIOS, to "emulate IDE" - this is what I had to do to get it to work with Hitachi tools.
> 
> I do recommend you disconnect the stock drive(s), JIC . You can boot off a floppy (assuming you can still find a floppy  or CD


That did the job. Thanks for the recommendation to try the BIOS option to emulate IDE.


----------



## lrhorer

worried12345 said:


> Thank you Rich! I'll go with the single drive solution.


I would also recommend this solution for your situation.



worried12345 said:


> And since I already bought MX-1 enclosure (pretty good price), I'll use it as a Sata -> USB 2.0adapter (instead of buying another special one) and will keep it for future.


That might work. I'm not sure. As far as what to do with the MX-1, you could go ahead and use it for the 1TB main drive. It's what I'm doing on my TiVo HD. You'll just have to swap the SATA connectors on the motherboard inside the case.



worried12345 said:


> I can use this enclosure for a two-step process - 1. Connect the original TivoHD drive only (using MX-1) to the USB port on my PC externaly and back it up to the file using WinMSF; 2. Replace the original drive with the new WD 1TB drive (in the enclosure) and restore it from the file. Did I read it correctly? Thanks again.


As long as the MX-1 will work as a SATA / USB adapater (I can't think why it wouldn't), this would work, but seriously, since a SATA / eSATA card for your PC like the one here can be had for $15, why waste the time and trouble? That especially if you might want to upgrade or hack your TiVo in the future.


----------



## [email protected]

Any idea when TiVo will qualify drives other than the 500GB WD My DVR Expander? The lack of choice for the TiVo HD owner has resulted in essentially monopolistic pricing. I can now get two external 500GB drives for the price of one MyDVR Expander. And, I would like to get something bigger than a 500GB drive as well.

From my perspective, the whole approach of TiVo in how it implemented and how it "qualifies" drives has been anti-competitive in effect. One way they can change this perception is to qualify more drives and more vendors.


----------



## richsadams

IIRC there were a few posts a while back from people that had talked to both TiVo and Western Digital. Both made comments to the effect that a larger approved expansion drive may be available by "late 2008". Stocking stuffer?

You're probably aware that you can add most any size expansion drive to a TiVo HD if you're willing to R&R the hard drive, connect it to your PC and run a simple program called WinMFS correct? If not the very first post on this thread walks you through the process.

Most people have simply opted to replace their internal hard drive (using the same program) with a larger drive instead. It's quite easy to do, takes about 30 to 45 minutes if that, and it's much cheaper than buying external drives, etc.


----------



## troilore

I have an HD tivo with the original drive and the "Tivo" expander.
Can I backup the 2 drives and replace them with 2 lager disk 2x 1 terrabyte?


----------



## richsadams

troilore said:


> I have an HD tivo with the original drive and the "Tivo" expander.
> Can I backup the 2 drives and replace them with 2 lager disk 2x 1 terrabyte?


The short answer is, unfortunately, no. Spike at MFSLive has not developed a program (or upgraded WinMFS) to allow copying of an eSATA drive.

What you'll end up doing is replacing the internal drive using WinMFS and if you want, marrying a new eSATA drive to it at the same time. You will lose all of the recordings made since you connected your expansion drive. You have the option of backing them up to your PC using TiVo Desktop and then transferring them back to your "new" TiVo if you want.

The WD AV GP 1TB drive is recommended for an internal and/or external upgrade. All the info you need to do this can be found in the very first post of this thread.


----------



## PaulPW

This is a long overdue update to posts #453, 456, 476, 478 on this thread in Dec 07 
The problem I was facing at the time was that my external 750GB Seagate 9BJ848-557 was not working reliably and I wanted to swap it for a Seagate DB35 750GB (a DVR rated drive) _without_ losing all my recordings.

To mirror the drive I first tried using Norton Ghost, but soon discovered that can only copy recognized drive partitions. Since the TiVo drive is 'raw' Ghost was useless!
After a bit of hair pulling and googling I came across references to the Unix DD command: "dd is a common UNIX program whose primary purpose is the low-level copying and conversion of raw data" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dd_(Unix))
At the bottom of the wikipedia page is a link to a Windows version of DD: http://uranus.it.swin.edu.au/~jn/linux/rawwrite/dd.htm
This is command line program and takes a bit of figuring out but IT WORKED FLAWLESSLY!!! At first I tried the default block size but that was taking forever, so I aborted the copy and increased it to 1MB.

When the DB35 was installed in the external enclosure my TiVo S3 behaved normally, just as if it was the original drive! 
Since then it has run almost flawlessly. TiVo maybe locked up once I think.
On a few occasions sound has gone out of sync - can usually be corrected by stopping play by going to the menu & then back.
On just a couple of other occasions the old problems came back - all recordings got corrupted (pixelated, skipping, etc.) & were unwatchable. However a reboot of TiVo & the external HD fixed it (although the few shows already recorded like that were still trash). When this happened I also disconnected then reseated the eSATA cable just for good measure.

I hope this is of use to someone else out there. This is a great forum and hats off especially to richsadams and lrhorer for their frequent helpful contributions.


----------



## richsadams

That's an excellent solution Paul, thanks for that! :up:

I'm not certain that it will work for a TiVo HD however. Unlike the Series3, the TiVo HD's software is designed to recognize and accept the external hard drive by model number. Right now it only recognizes and accepts the WD My DVR Expander. I would think that whatever copies are made (of the internal and/or external drive) the "marriage" may still be lost along with all of the recordings if they aren't made to an expansion drive with the exact same model number.

That said, since the OP wants to upgrade both the internal and external drive, it might just work. It's certainly worth a try. I'd be quite interested to hear the results!


----------



## JohnnyO

JohnnyO said:


> These drives will be used as internal (and only) drives in two TiVo HD DVRs.
> 
> I ran the WD quick and extended tests overnight on the two drives. They both passed.
> 
> Next step (for another night) is to do the MFSCOPY from WinMFS. I might just go "old school" and use the MFSLive Linux Boot CD since I'm used to that method from upgrading my DirecTV HDVR2 DVRs.


I used WinMFS to upgrade one TiVo HD Friday evening, and the other on Saturday morning. I used MFSCopy, after removing all but 10 or so recordings on each HD TiVo. Using additional internal SATA connections, the MFS copy took about 40 minutes for each drive. That process went much more quickly than what I expected. Both systems booted up fine, and have been running smoothly and quietly since the upgrades.

I am having one odd problem. It seems completely unrelated, but coincidences are hard to believe.

I am on Comcast, and have a multi-stream cable card in each TiVo. Since the upgrade of the second unit, I am having trouble receiving TLC HD, and HBO HD on both TiVos. Every other channel is fine. Other HBO (non-HD are fine). On one TV, I see the "searching for signal on Cable" message. This is an HD TV connected via component connections. On the other TV I either get the same message, or a very pixelated image comes in after an especially long time "syncing." This TV is an older non-HD set connected via S-video. Normally (previous to the upgrade) I get a letter-boxed image on the HD channels on that TV.

This is the first time the TiVo's have been powered down since I had the Cable Cards installed a couple of weeks ago. Could this be a Cable Card issue? A totally unrelated Comcast issue? Something else?

If I'm dragging this too far off-topic, I'll move this to a separate thread.

Thanks,

John


----------



## richsadams

JohnnyO said:


> I used WinMFS to upgrade one TiVo HD Friday evening, and the other on Saturday morning. I used MFSCopy, after removing all but 10 or so recordings on each HD TiVo. Using additional internal SATA connections, the MFS copy took about 40 minutes for each drive. That process went much more quickly than what I expected. Both systems booted up fine, and have been running smoothly and quietly since the upgrades.
> 
> I am having one odd problem. It seems completely unrelated, but coincidences are hard to believe.
> 
> I am on Comcast, and have a multi-stream cable card in each TiVo. Since the upgrade of the second unit, I am having trouble receiving TLC HD, and HBO HD on both TiVos. Every other channel is fine. Other HBO (non-HD are fine). On one TV, I see the "searching for signal on Cable" message. This is an HD TV connected via component connections. On the other TV I either get the same message, or a very pixelated image comes in after an especially long time "syncing." This TV is an older non-HD set connected via S-video. Normally (previous to the upgrade) I get a letter-boxed image on the HD channels on that TV.
> 
> This is the first time the TiVo's have been powered down since I had the Cable Cards installed a couple of weeks ago. Could this be a Cable Card issue? A totally unrelated Comcast issue? Something else?
> 
> If I'm dragging this too far off-topic, I'll move this to a separate thread.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John


It does indeed sound like a Comcast problem or a possibly cable card issue since you're seeing the same thing on both boxes. You might try calling Comcast to have them verify everything is okay on their end. If so, try running Guided Setup again.

If that doesn't cure it, try to convince Comcast to re-pair or "hit" both of your cable cards. Reboot both TiVo's afterwards and you should be good to go.

If they're like the Comcast folks here they may insist on a truck roll. I wouldn't mention having done anything to your TiVo's, just that you suddenly can't receive the channels properly. That way they shouldn't charge you...or you can tell them. IIRC it's only $14.95 for a truck roll (here anyway).

P.S. Did you try the non-HD HBO channel on the SDTV?


----------



## JohnnyO

richsadams said:


> It does indeed sound like a Comcast problem or a possibly cable card issue since you're seeing the same thing on both boxes. You might try calling Comcast to have them verify everything is okay on their end. If so, try running Guided Setup again.
> 
> If that doesn't cure it, try to convince Comcast to re-pair or "hit" both of your cable cards. Reboot both TiVo's afterwards and you should be good to go.
> P.S. Did you try the non-HD HBO channel on the SDTV?


I'll try that path of troubleshooting.

The non-HD HBO channels work fine on both TVs. I ran through the whole list of channels I am supposed to receive, and everything looks great except HBO HD, and TLC HD.

Thanks Rich,

John


----------



## jlb

Any new rumors regarding a 1TB My DVR Expander?


----------



## paladin732

Anyone know if this: http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/...etail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=A1471178 drive would work with an S3? It is a 1TB LaCie


----------



## richsadams

paladin732 said:


> Anyone know if this: http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/...etail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=A1471178 drive would work with an S3? It is a 1TB LaCie


AFAIK no one else has posted about this particular drive, but I see no reason why it wouldn't work as an expansion drive with a Series3. It has a built-in cooling fan which is a plus. $249 for a 1TB plug and play option isn't a bad deal. It doesn't appear to come with an eSATA cable (although you might want to verify that). If you have to order one, the recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable is less than $10. Other cable recommendations (Section III, #26)

Let us know if you get it and how it works, noise, etc.! :up:

P.S. If you do get it and you can open up the case, it would be very interesting to know what brand and model of hard drive they're using.


----------



## ilh

It says RAID-0 which means it has two 500GB drives in it, which means it will likely run hotter and noisier than a single 1TB drive. Since a TiVo doesn't need RAID-0 (striping) performance, it is hard to see how this is a good idea. The price is pretty close to that of a WD10EACS or WD10EVCS plus an MX-1 eSATA case.

I've got a similar 2x250GB LaCie at the office. I would say it is anything but quiet. I haven't opened it up to see what drives are in it.


----------



## djmunoz69

Has anyone ever upgrade a TiVo 3 32HD with the original internal drive using an external Kingwin JT-35EU and a Seagate ST310005N1A1AS-RK. The version 9 software walks me through the non-verified prompts which recognizes the drive; but then hangs on the "Please Wait..." screen. If you press a button on the Tivo remote it makes the Tivo error bong noise. Seems to indicate that the drive is still be formated and married. I let it run over night without success. Finally had to shut down the drive and then Tivo rebooted and operated normally ... just like out of the box. Oh, I'm using the Kingwin eSata cable which came with the case. I've ordered a Siig eSATA to eSATA (SATA II) Cable - 6.56ft just in case the Kingwin eSata is the weakest link.


----------



## richsadams

ilh said:


> It says RAID-0 which means it has two 500GB drives in it...


I think you're right. I didn't look at the dimensions, only the image (which is a single drive enclosure). But based on the measurements and weight (unless that's for shipping purposes), it's much bigger than a single drive enclosure. Plus according to the specs the LaCie drive weighs 5.5 pounds...much heavier than most single drive enclosures which are around 2 to 3 pounds even with a fan. (Antec's MX-1 is 8.5" x 5.5" x 2.0" and it's pretty big for a single drive box by comparison.) I thought they were including a program that used an existing drive and theirs to create a RAID system. 

If that's the case, it's to be avoided.

Agreed that the price for the Western Digital and Seagate drives are in the same ballpark now...and most likely a better buy, however that doesn't include a quality enclosure with a fan such as the recommended Antec MX-1. I'd spring for the WD drive and MX-1 if I could afford it. :up:


----------



## ilh

From the linked description: "The 1 TB Big Disk Extreme+ USB 2.0 Hard Drive from Lacie provides enormous capacity and a transparent, *built-in RAID 0 array* with no configuration for superior performance. It comes with eSATA 3Gbits for blazing ..."

The specified size is 6.7in x 10.7in, exactly the same size as the 2x250GB LaCie I have. It does have two drives inside the single enclosure, and no fan.


----------



## richsadams

ilh said:


> From the linked description: "The 1 TB Big Disk Extreme+ USB 2.0 Hard Drive from Lacie provides enormous capacity and a transparent, *built-in RAID 0 array* with no configuration for superior performance. It comes with eSATA 3Gbits for blazing ..."
> 
> The specified size is 6.7in x 10.7in, exactly the same size as the 2x250GB LaCie I have. It does have two drives inside the single enclosure, and no fan.


Living proof then. It is in fact to be avoided. Thanks for that. :up:

(They should be given 30 lashes for displaying a false image as well!)


----------



## ilh

There is nothing false about the image. You just can't tell the size with it in isolation. Here is mine opened up:










It is actually 2x300GB. It shows up as a "single" 600GB drive.


----------



## richsadams

Okay, you win. You are right on every count. I was wrong.


----------



## JayBird

Buy.com has a new deal on the Antec MX-1 for only $19.99 after rebate.

And, at least in my case, the eSATA cable that came with the MX-1 case works just fine, so there's no need to buy the "recommended" cable.


----------



## plumeria

JayBird said:


> Buy.com has a new deal on the Antec MX-1 for only $19.99 after rebate.
> .


Sold out and rebate only good at buy.com :-(

peter


----------



## JayBird

plumeria said:


> Sold out and rebate only good at buy.com :-(
> 
> peter


Well, it wasn't sold out this morning...


----------



## plumeria

JayBird said:


> Well, it wasn't sold out this morning...


I wasn't doubting that, but just didn't want folks (like me) to get excited only to discover they were too late..

peter


----------



## richsadams

JayBird said:


> And, at least in my case, the eSATA cable that came with the MX-1 case works just fine, so there's no need to buy the "recommended" cable.


Same here, the cable supplied with our MX-1 worked flawlessly.


----------



## thilt

I have had a Series 3 for about a year and attached an Apricorn 1TB external about 4 months ago. The Tivo has antenna and cable input. I have had no problems until about a week ago. Since then, 5 shows set up to record out of about 20 (with no discernable pattern) produced nothing on playback except an error message saying no signal was detected. I'm confident that there was a signal. Shows on either side of the missed show recorded fine. This has happened on both cable and antenna.

I went through troubleshooting with a CSR this morning (signal strength, settings etc.) with no luck. They don't support the Apricorn but she suggested I disconnect the drive to see if the trouble disappears. This would be a last resort as I would lose 50-60 hours of recordings.

Is it reasonable to assume that the external drive could cause this type of problem? Any other thoughts? I will post this on a general troubleshooting forum too. Thanks


----------



## jlib

plumeria said:


> Sold out and rebate only good at buy.com :-(


I have seen this happen several times at buy.com. They offer a short-term vendor specific rebate that is never usable because they are "sold out" 30 minutes after announcing it. On 4/21 it magically will come back in stock. Hopefully, I will be proved wrong this time.

Edit: They do have lots of other items available in stock with rebates so it must be that I just want the kind of things that really do sell out after they are announced but this is the third TiVO related item that was not available during the term of the rebate.


----------



## A J Ricaud

thilt said:


> Is it reasonable to assume that the external drive could cause this type of problem? Any other thoughts? I will post this on a general troubleshooting forum too. Thanks


I kind of doubt it. I would try unplugging the Tivo from power for 15 sec. (while leaving the Apricorn attached and powered-up) and then plugging the Tivo back in. Many times this will clear-up problems.


----------



## richsadams

thilt said:


> I have had a Series 3 for about a year and attached an Apricorn 1TB external about 4 months ago. The Tivo has antenna and cable input. I have had no problems until about a week ago. Since then, 5 shows set up to record out of about 20 (with no discernable pattern) produced nothing on playback except an error message saying no signal was detected. I'm confident that there was a signal. Shows on either side of the missed show recorded fine. This has happened on both cable and antenna.
> 
> I went through troubleshooting with a CSR this morning (signal strength, settings etc.) with no luck. They don't support the Apricorn but she suggested I disconnect the drive to see if the trouble disappears. This would be a last resort as I would lose 50-60 hours of recordings.
> 
> Is it reasonable to assume that the external drive could cause this type of problem? Any other thoughts? I will post this on a general troubleshooting forum too. Thanks


I agree with A J Ricaud...it doesn't sound like an expansion drive issue. Sounds more like a cable card/signal/cableco issue. If you're running HDMI a loss of the HDCP handshake can cause that as well. In any case a hard reboot (unplug TiVo, wait 15 seconds or so for the hard drive to spin down and then plug it back in) can't hurt. If it continues you might want to try re-running Guided Setup. If you're using HDMI you could try replacing the cable or a component video connection.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes. :up:

P.S. You might also check to see if you've received the latest upgrade, v9.3a. Upgrades have been known to alter some settings. Again a reboot or Guided Setup usually resolves things.


----------



## JohnnyO

JohnnyO said:


> I'll try that path of troubleshooting.
> 
> The non-HD HBO channels work fine on both TVs. I ran through the whole list of channels I am supposed to receive, and everything looks great except HBO HD, and TLC HD.
> 
> Thanks Rich,
> 
> John


Just to close this loop, two things have happened in the last few days. One, The two channels in question came back, but looking at the CableCARD diagnostics, they have lower signal than the other channels. Two, I found a recorded show from the night before I made the disk upgrade exhibiting the same problem, confirming that my problems are not at all related to my disk upgrades.

So far, the WD drives are working fine.


----------



## thilt

Rich, A. J Ricaud - thanks for the responses. I've done the hard reboot and set up several test recordings. So far, so good.

Tom


----------



## richsadams

JohnnyO said:


> Just to close this loop, two things have happened in the last few days. One, The two channels in question came back, but looking at the CableCARD diagnostics, they have lower signal than the other channels. Two, I found a recorded show from the night before I made the disk upgrade exhibiting the same problem, confirming that my problems are not at all related to my disk upgrades.
> 
> So far, the WD drives are working fine.


How weird.  Thanks for the update! :up:


----------



## richsadams

thilt said:


> Rich, A. J Ricaud - thanks for the responses. I've done the hard reboot and set up several test recordings. So far, so good.
> 
> Tom


Good to hear! :up:


----------



## A J Ricaud

thilt said:


> Rich, A. J Ricaud - thanks for the responses. I've done the hard reboot and set up several test recordings. So far, so good.
> 
> Tom


!


----------



## Jaze

I don't know if you guys have already discussed this issue to death - the threads are hard to search in this forum! - but I'm having a problem. I unplugged my TiVo, plugged in a 500GB Apricorn DVR Expander into the eSATA port, turned the drive on, then powered the TiVo back up.

When I checked Settings/Remote, CableCARD & Devices, the External Storage section option indicated no external storage device detected.

I did a Restart, and checked again. This time the drive was identified. I was warned it was a non-verified drive, and that all info on the drive would be lost if I continued. I affirmed my desire to continue, gave the three thumbs down and pressed enter. The TiVo then restarted (or I had to restart the system myself, I can't remember), and, after a long time, during which I didn't see this page:
http://mysite.verizon.net/~fiosdvr/tivo/esata/esata3.jpg
the TiVo was functioning again.

I checked the System info, and found that there was no evidence of attached external storage, and the storage space indicated just up to 32 hours in HD.

I restarted the TiVo, checked Settings/External Storage again, which confirmed that there was still no External Storage detected.

I'm not sure what to do. Since the TiVo DID at one point recognize that an external drive was attached, the connection seems to be functional. But now it's refusing to play ball!

Suggestions?

Thanks,

J.


----------



## Jaze

Oh, hold on! I restarted a third (or fourth,maybe) time, and it recognized my external storage.

And, yes! The sweet, sweet words "Up to 98 hours HD" are on my screen!

Reading over the FAQ, I see that certain specific eSATA cables are recommended. Is it worth buying one of these cables and reinstalling the drive? I'm kind of terrified that it'll never work again, but I'm also kind of worried that the TiVo will forget the external drive again.

What do y'all think?

J.


----------



## moxie1617

It's cheap insurance to get the recommended cable. I went for three months with with a MX-1 and it's supplied cable. The unit got moved once and that was the end of a stable external drive. Replaced the cable and all has been well since September. BTW, you won't have to reinstall the drive. Just power down the Tivo, unplug it. Power off the Apricorn. Change the cable, then power up the apricorn and then power up the Tivo.


----------



## Jaze

Thanks, Moxie - I'll order it right away.


----------



## robostock

I know it was most likely a gimme that WinMFS would work with 9.3, but just to confirm, the Western Digital WD10EVCS works with WinMFS in 9.3, without any problems. :up:

It's so nice too have some breathing with all the new HD epsidoes baseball and NBA playoffs finally coming around!


----------



## HomieG

I know this thread is about the eSATA drive, but thought folks may be interested in a good price on another option.

Zipzoomfly.com has the Samsung HD501LJ 500GB internal SATA drive (3-year warranty) for $79.99 with free 5-7 day FedEx delivery. Not too shabby a price for a decent drive.


----------



## richsadams

robostock said:


> I know it was most likely a gimme that WinMFS would work with 9.3, but just to confirm, the Western Digital WD10EVCS works with WinMFS in 9.3, without any problems. :up:
> 
> It's so nice too have some breathing with all the new HD epsidoes baseball and NBA playoffs finally coming around!


Ditto here. Our WD 1TB WD10EVCS (internal) is functioning fine since 9.3a was installed yesterday. Good to hear that there are no issues using it as an eSATA as well. :up:


----------



## robostock

richsadams said:


> Ditto here. Our WD 1TB WD10EVCS (internal) is functioning fine since 9.3a was installed yesterday. Good to hear that there are no issues using it as an eSATA as well. :up:


Actually, I took your advice and installed it as an internal. I put the original on the shelf for emergency use. I feel much better having a "spare" around in the event of a HD failure. Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

robostock said:


> Actually, I took your advice and installed it as an internal. I put the original on the shelf for emergency use. I feel much better having a "spare" around in the event of a HD failure. Thanks!


Great minds think alike. Just wish I had one.


----------



## aztecgizmo

I just installed an internal 750GB Seagate hard drive. Does anyone know how many HD hours the TIVO should be reading (how many hours of HD recording time)?


----------



## ThAbtO

aztecgizmo said:


> I just installed an internal 750GB Seagate hard drive. Does anyone know how many HD hours the TIVO should be reading (how many hours of HD recording time)?


It should tell you in the system info screen.


----------



## dwit

aztecgizmo said:


> I just installed an internal 750GB Seagate hard drive. Does anyone know how many HD hours the TIVO should be reading (how many hours of HD recording time)?


A dvrupgrade.com replacement drive kit nets 107 hd hours. That's what I use to compare. If you don't read that many, maybe you didn't supersize.


----------



## JayBird

Ok, so it's been a few weeks, and it appears the 750GB Seagate DB35.3 drive in my MX-1 is not happy. It's still working OK, but it makes a loud chattering sound a lot of the time. Even if it's not actually failing, I want to replace it anyway. The drive I put inside the TiVo (same model drive) isn't making the same sound, so I assume this isn't normal behavior for this model of drive.

I ordered another drive (same 750GB Seagate DB35.3), so when it arrives, I want to just clone the current external drive to the new drive and put the new drive in the MX-1. It's my understanding that if I use the exact same size and model of drive, that the TiVo won't notice (or won't care) that the drive was swapped out (right?). Obviously my goal is to not lose my recordings if at all possible.

So what's the best/fastest way to clone the drive? I know I could use dd, but that could take days on a 750GB drive. At least at the moment, there isn't a whole lot of stuff recorded, so there's presumably a lot of blank space on the drive that doesn't need to be copied. Is there a "smart" means to copy the drive that only copies the current recordings, but not all the blank space? Can I use MFSCopy on a second drive (aka 'B' drive) to clone it to another drive? Or am I stuck using dd to make this work?


----------



## richsadams

JayBird said:


> Ok, so it's been a few weeks, and it appears the 750GB Seagate DB35.3 drive in my MX-1 is not happy. It's still working OK, but it makes a loud chattering sound a lot of the time. Even if it's not actually failing, I want to replace it anyway. The drive I put inside the TiVo (same model drive) isn't making the same sound, so I assume this isn't normal behavior for this model of drive.
> 
> I ordered another drive (same 750GB Seagate DB35.3), so when it arrives, I want to just clone the current external drive to the new drive and put the new drive in the MX-1. It's my understanding that if I use the exact same size and model of drive, that the TiVo won't notice (or won't care) that the drive was swapped out (right?). Obviously my goal is to not lose my recordings if at all possible.
> 
> So what's the best/fastest way to clone the drive? I know I could use dd, but that could take days on a 750GB drive. At least at the moment, there isn't a whole lot of stuff recorded, so there's presumably a lot of blank space on the drive that doesn't need to be copied. Is there a "smart" means to copy the drive that only copies the current recordings, but not all the blank space? Can I use MFSCopy on a second drive (aka 'B' drive) to clone it to another drive? Or am I stuck using dd to make this work?


That's a good question. IIRC someone did use dd to successfully clone their expansion drive, but something quicker would be ideal.

I'd also be very interested to know the outcome. Thanks for being a TiVo Pioneer! :up:


----------



## JayBird

Got confirmation over on the mfslive.org forum that dd is the only way to clone a 'B' drive all by itself.

According to post #1203 in this thread, PaulPW had success using dd, so at least there is a solution that works, albeit slow.

Now I'm just waiting for that replacement drive to show up via the big brown truck. It should be here tomorrow.


----------



## ilh

Why do you say dd will be slow? It's just doing low-level block reads/writes, so it shouldn't be any slower than anything else.

I'd estimate about 3h for 750GB if you have direct SATA connections.


----------



## JayBird

dd is slow because it's copying every single block on the disk, as opposed to just copying the filesystem stuff and the recorded programs (skipping all unused blocks).

If the disk is full of recorded programs, then you don't gain anything with a "smart" copy, but in my case, where there's only a handful of recorded programs on my TiVo HD, it would be much faster to just copy the content instead of the whole disk.

But if it can be done in 3 hours, I can certainly live with that. The sustained transfer rate of Seagate drives is only around 100 MB/sec, regardless of interface, so I will likely use USB connections (one using the USB port on my MX-1 case, and the other using a USB->SATA adapter). As long as they are connected to root ports on the computer (i.e. not through a hub) and the ports are USB 2.0 (480 MB/sec), then doing it this way should be just as fast as connecting directly to the SATA ports on the motherboard, without having to shut down or open up the computer. My point is that the performance bottleneck is the transfer rate of the drives, not the interface.


----------



## Fireaxe

I just unboxed the Western Digital drive purchased directly from TiVo and it will not initialize. The TiVo software asks if I want to setup the drive, I do the three thumbs down and enter.. when the TiVo restarts it does not use the external drive. It asks if I want to initialize the drive all over again. I've done this five times. What can I do besides return the drive to TiVo? I have a series 3 HD Tivo.


----------



## moxie1617

You can try a new e-sata cable. See II 26 in the 1st post of this thread for specs and ordering info.


----------



## richsadams

Fireaxe said:


> I just unboxed the Western Digital drive purchased directly from TiVo and it will not initialize. The TiVo software asks if I want to setup the drive, I do the three thumbs down and enter.. when the TiVo restarts it does not use the external drive. It asks if I want to initialize the drive all over again. I've done this five times. What can I do besides return the drive to TiVo? I have a series 3 HD Tivo.


As moxie points out...the eSATA cables supplied with the WD My DVR expander were known to have caused problems. Most of the complaints were back when it was first introduced last autumn. Western Digital seems to have cleaned up their act more recently.

However, if your TiVo is asking if you'd like to set the drive up it sounds like the cable may not be the problem. First be sure you're following the installation steps correctly:

1. Unplug TiVo
2. Connect your eSATA drive and plug it in (give it a few seconds to spin up)
3. Plug TiVo back in
4. Follow the on-screen instructions

If you're doing all of that and TiVo recognizes that you have a new drive connected it may be that the expansion drive itself is DOA. IIRC there have been at least three similar reports. That happens. Best bet is to return it to TiVo or Western Digital (I can't remember which it ends up being...call TiVo first).



moxie1617 said:


> You can try a new e-sata cable. See II 26 in the 1st post of this thread for specs and ordering info.


You missed an "I". The cable info is actually in Section III, #26.


----------



## moxie1617

richsadams said:


> A............................
> 
> You missed an "I". The cable info is actually in Section III, #26.


 oops


----------



## JayBird

My attempt to replace my failing external drive for my TiVo HD with an exact replacement did not go as successfully as I had hoped. I encountered several read errors when trying to clone the failing drive to the new drive (both 750GB Seagate DB35.3 drives). Hoping that those errors corresponded to irrelevant sectors, I tried booting my TiVo HD with the replacement external drive connected after having copied what I could, only to either get the "external drive not connected" screen asking me to divorce the drive and lose some of my recordings, or it would hang or spontaneous reboot during boot.

In the end, I gave up, turned off the external drive, rebooted TiVo, and agreed to divorce the external drive, losing the extra recording capacity, and most of the recordings. The good thing is that there really wasn't much stored on the TiVo at this point. The only thing I'm bummed about losing was the 10 year anniversary special of Big Cat Diary in HD, which isn't on the schedule to be shown again.

Now I need to start over, taking my TiVo HD apart again, in order to marry the replacement external drive to the drive inside the TiVo. According to mfslive.org, at least with earlier versions of the TiVo software you have to run fixdivorce before trying to add a new B drive after using TiVo's built-in divorce process. I don't know if you still need to do that for the 9.3 software though. Does anybody know?

- Jay


----------



## husky55

I already have the internal drive replaced with a WD 1 TB in my TivoHD. Can I use WINMFS to add the new Esata drive or the Linux version is the only way to add Esata for the TivoHD ?

I had some problem with the Linux version when I upgrade the internal hard drive so I am reluctant to use it. 

Thanks,


----------



## richsadams

husky55 said:


> I already have the internal drive replaced with a WD 1 TB in my TivoHD. Can I use WINMFS to add the new Esata drive or the Linux version is the only way to add Esata for the TivoHD ?
> 
> I had some problem with the Linux version when I upgrade the internal hard drive so I am reluctant to use it.
> 
> Thanks,


Yes, you should be able to use WinMFS to add your new eSATA drive. Section III #10 of the first post on this thread has the details, but IIRC you just select your original drive as "A"; your eSATA drive as "B" then tools > mfsadd.


----------



## husky55

richsadams said:


> Yes, you should be able to use WinMFS to add your new eSATA drive. Section III #10 of the first post on this thread has the details, but IIRC you just select your original drive as "A"; your eSATA drive as "B" then tools > mfsadd.


@richadams,

Thanks for the confirm. This forum is a better place because of guys like you. Much appreciated.


----------



## Elias85018

I have a Series3 Tivo & a Best Buy gift certificate.

I have seen people post many options for increasing the size of their Tivo on this thread but left with a few questions.

Since I am "Stuck" at purchasing at Best Buy, I have only certain choices to increase my Tivo

1) My DVR Expanader (500GB)
2) Some replacment of my original INTERNAL 250GB SATA drive.

I think I would rather swap out the Internal 250GB with a 1T and put the 250GB in a safe place. Would everyone agree that if I don't mind the extra work, this is the best option?

My question is:

1) What drives are compatible to replace the INTERNAL Series 3 drive, again stuck at purchasing at Best Buy. I see several WD drives on their site, can't find the "WD10EVCS".

Thanks so much to reading,

Gary


----------



## dwit

Elias85018 said:


> ...I think I would rather swap out the Internal 250GB with a *1T* and put the 250GB in a safe place. Would everyone agree that if I don't mind the extra work, this is the best option?
> 
> My question is:
> 
> 1) What drives are compatible to replace the INTERNAL Series 3 drive, again stuck at purchasing at Best Buy. I see several WD drives on their site, can't find the "WD10EVCS".
> 
> Thanks so much to reading,
> 
> Gary


The WD10EVCS is the model number(partial) of the bare drive inside the box. It is not the same as the model numbers given on the website, which are the retail box(kit) model numbers. The WD10EVCS is a very recent release and seems to be marketed as a dvr drive. Often, these type drives are not available at retail stores. They are usually just sold as bare drives by specialty computer stores, usually online.

In all likelyhood, a 1TB Western D purchased at BB will have a model number of WD10EACS-00ZJB0. This is the only drive that is consistently *reported to not work as internal *on the Tivo Model S3. Since you are locked into BB, it still might not be a bad idea to buy a drive and see what model you actually get. You may be lucky and get the earlier model which did work. Remember though, the model number on the retail box is not an indication of the actual bare drive model number. You will have to open the box to find out. Remember to check the return/exchange policy.

If you don't want to go that route, it looks like the only other internal 1TB drive they offer is the Seagate. Some people(picky, sensitive) report Seagates, in general, to be a little loud, but they do have the 5yr warranty. This model was just released in the last month or so, so I have not read any reports on it. Unless you plan to use it in the bedroom, it should be fine. The Seagate was onsale a week or so ago for $179.xx, so you might want to wait until it runs again, and save $80.

If you do happen to be in BB, also look for the Hitachi external 1TB Easy Drive. They have been on clearance($130 about), and are mostly gone. The external case on these have been problematic, but the bare drive inside, the Hitachi Deskstar, is a gem. This is the internal on my Tivo HD. I also use the WD10EACS, discussed above, as external on the HD. Of course it also works fine as internal on the Tivo HD.


----------



## jlb

Ok. I have gotten over my fear of messing up the drive and would consider doing an internal upgrade as opposed to the My DVR Expander. My only current "fear" is if something happens related to the M-Card. I know it shouldn't, but I would hate to have that happen. 

Of course, if there was proof of a 1TB Expander on the horizon, my decision would be done.


----------



## husky55

jlb said:


> Ok. I have gotten over my fear of messing up the drive and would consider doing an internal upgrade as opposed to the My DVR Expander. My only current "fear" is if something happens related to the M-Card. I know it shouldn't, but I would hate to have that happen.
> 
> Of course, if there was proof of a 1TB Expander on the horizon, my decision would be done.


I actually had the same apprehension. Be very careful with all the connection, use Winmfs instead of the Linux CD version (for whatever reason, I had trouble with Linux, thinking it was the trouble free way, but I was wrong. I have my Sata configured as ACHI instead of the regular IDE, also have DVDR sata drive, so that might mess it up). If your Tivo with the M-Card works fine before the upgrade, it will work fine after the upgrade.

I use the original HD as a backup with all info of the M-card and Tivo subscription on it if anything goes wrong.


----------



## richsadams

Elias85018 said:


> I have a Series3 Tivo & a Best Buy gift certificate.
> 
> I have seen people post many options for increasing the size of their Tivo on this thread but left with a few questions.
> 
> Since I am "Stuck" at purchasing at Best Buy, I have only certain choices to increase my Tivo
> 
> 1) My DVR Expanader (500GB)
> 2) Some replacment of my original INTERNAL 250GB SATA drive.
> 
> I think I would rather swap out the Internal 250GB with a 1T and put the 250GB in a safe place. Would everyone agree that if I don't mind the extra work, this is the best option?
> 
> My question is:
> 
> 1) What drives are compatible to replace the INTERNAL Series 3 drive, again stuck at purchasing at Best Buy. I see several WD drives on their site, can't find the "WD10EVCS".
> 
> Thanks so much to reading,
> 
> Gary


Welcome to the forum. :up: dwit, husky and others have given good advice here. I've tried both and agree that swapping out the internal drive and putting the original on the shelf is the way to go.

Any of the drives listed in Section III, #27 on the first post/FAQ of this thread will work as an internal drive upgrade for your TiVo Series3 as well.

This new Seagate 1TB drive may be a good option. Based on posts by early adopters it runs cool and one member reported that it was quieter than his original TiVo drive.

If you're comfortable with removing and replacing a hard drive in your PC, using WinMFS to upgrade your TiVo is a snap. You should have plenty of space on your TiVo in no time.

Good luck and keep us posted! :up:


----------



## nrnoble

Problem: Can't add extrenal FreeAgent Pro (750GB) after upgrading internal drive

This weekend I upgraded my internal drive to 1TB (from DVRupgrades). Works perfectly; Sys info says I have 144 HD Hours. 

Then....

I've tried several times to add the FreeAgent external drive. This drive worked before upgrading. Sys Info shows the FreeDrive as connected and I get the "Message" screen asking me if I want to add it as an (unsupported) storage device, but after doing 3 thumbs down, are you really really sure? the system reboots the S3 but does not have any special setup screen that adds the extrenal drive.

Any ideas why the S3 sees the extrenal HDD, but does not add it as storage device?


----------



## dwit

nrnoble said:


> Any ideas why the S3 sees the extrenal HDD, but does not add it as storage device?


Pretty sure if you check the basics of this topic(first page), it will explain that you cannot add an external drive to an internal that has been expanded in the same way as if the internal was stock.

In effect, with an already expanded internal, you now have to marry the two drives with mfs procedures(winmfs or mfslive cd) using a pc.
This procedure is explained at mfslive.org(if not also on first page).


----------



## UnitPrime

Ok, now that Tivo has rolled out the newest versions of the software that "should have" merged the two branches of HD (S3 & HD) does anyone know if the ~2tb total storage limit has been increased for the S3?


----------



## richsadams

UnitPrime said:


> Ok, now that Tivo has rolled out the newest versions of the software that "should have" merged the two branches of HD (S3 & HD) does anyone know if the ~2tb total storage limit has been increased for the S3?


Welcome to the forum. :up:

IIRC the 2.2TB limit isn't a function of the software version, but the model itself, based on software and hardware. AFAIK THD's and S3's are still differentiated in a number of ways including the P&P expansion abilities, etc. whatever software version they're running.

Spike at MFSLive may be able to clarify on their forum.


----------



## Elias85018

richsadams said:


> Welcome to the forum. :up: dwit, husky and others have given good advice here. I've tried both and agree that swapping out the internal drive and putting the original on the shelf is the way to go.
> 
> Any of the drives listed in Section III, #27 on the first post/FAQ of this thread will work as an internal drive upgrade for your TiVo Series3 as well.
> 
> This new Seagate 1TB drive may be a good option. Based on posts by early adopters it runs cool and one member reported that it was quieter than his original TiVo drive.
> 
> If you're comfortable with removing and replacing a hard drive in your PC, using WinMFS to upgrade your TiVo is a snap. You should have plenty of space on your TiVo in no time.
> 
> Good luck and keep us posted! :up:


I just picked up the Seagate drive you recommended (ST310005N1A1AS-RK) at Best Buy ($189.95).

Everything worked fine. New drive is now in the S3 Tivo and the recording limts are
HD: 131 Hours and
SD: 1244 Hours.

The Seagate is running a little cooler than the stock WD250. Not but much, maybe 5-degrees F. The temp was taken with an infrared thermometer during the 1 hour transfer of data. The drive seems just as quiet, no noticeable difference.

Thanks for you help Rich, I'll keep you posted!

Gary


----------



## richsadams

Elias85018 said:


> I just picked up the Seagate drive you recommended (ST310005N1A1AS-RK) at Best Buy ($189.95).
> 
> Everything worked fine. New drive is now in the S3 Tivo and the recording limts are
> HD: 131 Hours and
> SD: 1244 Hours.
> 
> The Seagate is running a little cooler than the stock WD250. Not but much, maybe 5-degrees F. The temp was taken with an infrared thermometer during the 1 hour transfer of data. The drive seems just as quiet, no noticeable difference.
> 
> Thanks for you help Rich, I'll keep you posted!
> 
> Gary


Great to hear...nice job and thanks for the details about that drive. Not many are in use yet but they look like a very good option. :up:


----------



## lrhorer

richsadams said:


> IIRC the 2.2TB limit isn't a function of the software version, but the model itself, based on software and hardware.


No, it's entirely a matter of the file system. The TiVo HD employs a 64 bit MFS file system. The S3 employs a 32 bit MFS file system, which limits the total drive size to 2.2TB. There is no particular reason why the 64 Bit file system could not run on an S3, but converting from MFS 32 to MFS 64 on the fly would be extremely problematical.



richsadams said:


> AFAIK THD's and S3's are still differentiated in a number of ways including the P&P expansion abilities, etc. whatever software version they're running.


They are, but this particular feature is an aspect only of the kernel and the file system format.


----------



## richsadams

lrhorer said:


> No, it's entirely a matter of the file system. The TiVo HD employs a 64 bit MFS file system. The S3 employs a 32 bit MFS file system, which limits the total drive size to 2.2TB. There is no particular reason why the 64 Bit file system could not run on an S3, but converting from MFS 32 to MFS 64 on the fly would be extremely problematical.
> 
> They are, but this particular feature is an aspect only of the kernel and the file system format.


Thanks for the clarification. :up:


----------



## JayBird

JayBird said:


> Now I need to start over, taking my TiVo HD apart again, in order to marry the replacement external drive to the drive inside the TiVo. According to mfslive.org, at least with earlier versions of the TiVo software you have to run fixdivorce before trying to add a new B drive after using TiVo's built-in divorce process. I don't know if you still need to do that for the 9.3 software though. Does anybody know?


I got no answer regarding fixdivorce, so I just went ahead and ran it before marrying the replacement external drive, and that worked just fine. I also missed the supersize step last time around, but did it this time, so that gave me another 20 hours of HD, for a total of 218 hours of HD (750GB+750GB).

And, the replacement external drive is working much better (and quieter) than the original, which is now packed and ready to be sent back to Seagate for replacement.


----------



## bchen7106

Hey all, so I've got a Tivo HD and am interested in upgrading the hard drive. I read the faq in the beginning, but noticed that it was written some time ago.

I was just wondering if there has been any difference in the way people are adding eSATA drives (forgive me, I just can't read through the 40 pages of postings).

Is there a general concensus on which hard drive and enclosure people like? I'm looking for a hard drive that is first and foremost quiet.

Also, to remove the existing internal hard drive, what is this special screw driver that you're supposed to use? Do I really need to go to an auto store to buy a special screw driver?

THanks.


----------



## bchen7106

Oh and another quick question. My computer has SATA ports, but I don't see anything labeled eSATA. It's fairly new (like 1 year old). Do I still need to get a USB to SATA converter? Or is eSATA and SATA interchangeable?


----------



## husky55

bchen7106 said:


> Oh and another quick question. My computer has SATA ports, but I don't see anything labeled eSATA. It's fairly new (like 1 year old). Do I still need to get a USB to SATA converter? Or is eSATA and SATA interchangeable?


1. The FAQ is excellent and mostly accurate and up to date.

2. Read the FAQ again, you DO need the screwdriver it refers to with the proper size.

3. SATA is for internal connection. ESATA is for external connection, i.e. your external enclosure. They have different connector and design, however there are converters which allow ESATA to plug into the internal SATA connector.

4. You do not need to buy USB converter if you know how to connect SATA connector inside your computer.

5. Read the FAQ. I did.

6. Proceed carefully.


----------



## bchen7106

Thanks for the fast response. 

I'm just debating between just buying the stupid western digital DVR extender and doing it myself. I'm leaving to get married next monday and I'll be gone for almost 2 weeks. I don't want stuff to get backed up on my Tivo but I'm in kind of a time crunch to get this done quick. 

I'd settle for the WD DVR extender, but it just bothers me that I can get a bigger drive for cheaper that I can also use for other things if I ever need to in the future. I'm just a little turned off by the extra things I'll need to buy (special screwdriver, SATA to eSATA converter).


----------



## husky55

bchen7106 said:


> Thanks for the fast response.
> 
> I'm just debating between just buying the stupid western digital DVR extender and doing it myself. I'm leaving to get married next monday and I'll be gone for almost 2 weeks. I don't want stuff to get backed up on my Tivo but I'm in kind of a time crunch to get this done quick.
> 
> I'd settle for the WD DVR extender, but it just bothers me that I can get a bigger drive for cheaper that I can also use for other things if I ever need to in the future. I'm just a little turned off by the extra things I'll need to buy (special screwdriver, SATA to eSATA converter).


What are you doing messing with TIVO if you are getting married next Monday. Tivo will be there when you get back. There is no hurry, is there? I would suggest turn off Suggestions as it will fill your Tivo with shows it think you want to watch and will fill your HD in no time.

As I said, you have no need to buy any converter if you have worked inside your computer before. The WD DVR Extender is not a bad solution.


----------



## richsadams

bchen7106 said:


> Thanks for the fast response.
> 
> I'm just debating between just buying the stupid western digital DVR extender and doing it myself. I'm leaving to get married next monday and I'll be gone for almost 2 weeks. I don't want stuff to get backed up on my Tivo but I'm in kind of a time crunch to get this done quick.
> 
> I'd settle for the WD DVR extender, but it just bothers me that I can get a bigger drive for cheaper that I can also use for other things if I ever need to in the future. I'm just a little turned off by the extra things I'll need to buy (special screwdriver, SATA to eSATA converter).


Husky's given you some good advice. :up:

My two cents? Don't bother with an expansion drive. If you have about an hour or so you can easily replace your TiVo's internal drive by following the directions for the WinMFS program which is free from MFSLive.org. You'll simply download the program to your PC, connect your TiVo's hard drive and your new hard drive to your computer's mother board via normal SATA cables. (You likely have four to eight SATA connectors on your PC's MB.) Once connected open WinMFS and follow the steps. It may seem daunting, but it's really quite simple. It will take more time to remove and replace the hard drive. Running the program takes about five minutes. (A bit more if you want to copy over all of your recordings.)

Any of the recommended hard drives listed in the first post are good choices...and even the 1TB's are going for less than $200 now. Put TiVo's original drive on the shelf for safe keeping. Should something go wrong, you can always put it back in later.

BTW Torx screwdrivers are very common...auto parts stores, Sears, etc., they all have them for a couple of dollars, just get the right size (T10 IIRC).

As mentioned, the WD MY DVR Expander is a fine alternative as well. But if you're like me you'll eventually want more space. Might as well do it now...for less! 

Congrats on getting hitched, and let us know how it goes. (With TiVo...although honeymoon details are always welcome here.  )


----------



## UnitPrime

I have an S3 with the original drive to which I have added a 500gb esata drive with an external esata case - I want to update the internal drive to a 1tb and upgrade the external to 1tb (or better), Using two 500/640 gb drives via this external esata raid controller.

Is this possible? I am looking to preserve the shows that I have recorded on the tivo.

So, the task would be 
a) internal 250gb ---> internal 1tb
b) external 500gb ---> external 1tb or 1.28tb raid 0 via raid controller

Am I SoL or is there a way using MFSLive or MFSTools?


----------



## thomaslue

I have an S3 with the factory hard drive and I need more room. I am considering paying $200 for the 500 GB "My DVR Expander," but I have second thoughts when I see deals like this: Seagate FreeAgent Pro 750GB eSATA / USB 2.0 / FireWire External Hard Drive for $126 + $11 s&h.
What to do?


----------



## dwit

thomaslue said:


> I have an S3 with the factory hard drive and I need more room. I am considering paying $200 for the 500 GB "My DVR Expander," but I have second thoughts when I see deals like this: Seagate FreeAgent Pro 750GB eSATA / USB 2.0 / FireWire External Hard Drive for $126 + $11 s&h.
> What to do?


 *(Seagate Recertified)*

...and does not have a fan. Those two together may raise longevity questions for some. Especially the recertified. That said, I do use this Seagate with my pc. It is silent and cool.

Might be better to just buy a drive and enclosure(Antec MX-1) if you don't use the expander.


----------



## jlib

UnitPrime said:


> I have an S3 with the original drive to which I have added a 500gb esata drive with an external esata case - I want to update the internal drive to a 1tb and upgrade the external to 1tb (or better), Using two 500/640 gb drives via this external esata raid controller.
> 
> Is this possible? I am looking to preserve the shows that I have recorded on the tivo.
> 
> So, the task would be
> a) internal 250gb ---> internal 1tb
> b) external 500gb ---> external 1tb or 1.28tb raid 0 via raid controller
> 
> Am I SoL or is there a way using MFSLive or MFSTools?


Ths is a good news / bad news scenario. The SiI5744 chip is exactly the kind of RAID 0 controller that should work with the S3 but since you are the first you will be a pioneer of sorts. In other words, there is no reason the ESU2DSATA10 Bridgeboard should not work but there is no confirmation from users here yet. Note that your PC will need an eSATA port or else you will need a SATA/eSATA cable to connect to PC's SATA port to setup your external drive.

The preservation of your recordings on the external drive is what is problematic. You should have no problem upgrading the internal drive and the ESU2DSATA10 on the surface seems compatible with the eSATA port but the whole process of upgrading is going to cause the loss of data on your current external drive. This is why most veteran upgraders recommend upgrading the internal drive to maximum capacity first. Most people soon exhaust the 500GB external drive if they start archiving anything.

See richadam's post a few messages back with the tip to use TiVo Desktop to backup recordings. Or maybe have a marathon weekend to get caught up.

Also note that the WD10EVCS (make that WD10EACS) drive should not be used internally on the S3 to upgrade.


----------



## dwit

> *Jlib *said: ...note that the WD10EVCS drive should not be used internally on the S3 to upgrade.


Are you confusing it with the WD10*EA*CS? *EV*cs is listed as recommended internal/external in FAQ #27(1st post).


----------



## jlib

dwit said:


> Are you confusing it with the WD10*EA*CS? *EV*cs is listed as recommended internal/external in FAQ #27(1st post).


Aaak!  Indeed I am. Thank you for the correction.


----------



## thomaslue

dwit said:


> *(Seagate Recertified)*
> 
> ...and does not have a fan. Those two together may raise longevity questions for some. Especially the recertified. That said, I do use this Seagate with my pc. It is silent and cool.
> 
> Might be better to just buy a drive and enclosure(Antec MX-1) if you don't use the expander.


OK, I'll bite: What drive mechanism is recommended to go into the Antec MX-1?


----------



## richsadams

thomaslue said:


> OK, I'll bite: What drive mechanism is recommended to go into the Antec MX-1?


Everything you need to know is included in the very first post of this thread. Specific recommended drives are listed in Section III, #27.

Have fun and if you get stuck anywhere, feel free to ask questions!

BTW, I ran a Seagate DB35 HDD in an Antec MX-1 case for several months without any problems...highly recommended for an eSATA option. :up:


----------



## thomaslue

richsadams said:


> BTW, I ran a Seagate DB35 HDD in an Antec MX-1 case for several months without any problems...highly recommended for an eSATA option. :up:


Seems like the best price for the 750GB version of that drive is at Amazon: 
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000YX480G?smid=A2R0FX412W1BDT&tag=mysimon-ce00-20&linkCode=asn

Does that sound right?


----------



## dwit

thomaslue said:


> Seems like the best price for the 750GB version of that drive is at Amazon:
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000YX480G?smid=A2R0FX412W1BDT&tag=mysimon-ce00-20&linkCode=asn
> 
> Does that sound right?


A few posts up, a member reports picking up the 1TB Seagate(non db35) at Best Buy for $190. Reported as being cool and quiet.

Just another option, among many.


----------



## richsadams

thomaslue said:


> Seems like the best price for the 750GB version of that drive is at Amazon:
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000YX480G?smid=A2R0FX412W1BDT&tag=mysimon-ce00-20&linkCode=asn
> 
> Does that sound right?


That's not a bad price, but nothing to get too excited about. The DB35 series is a very good choice though and you can't go wrong IMHO.

For a few dollars more you could consider this WD 1TB model for an external drive (keeping in mind that it will NOT work as an internal drive upgrade in the Series3). I've had one of the early versions of this drive in our TiVo for about eight months now and it's been perfect.

The one dwit is referring to (Seagate's new 1TB drive) is a very good drive as well, but it appears to be going for about $249 now and is sold out on line. However they do list it as being in stock at all of our local Best Buy's. That one will work as an internal or external drive for both TiVo HD's and Series3's.


----------



## bbache

I have a new TiVo S3 running v9.3a. I wanted to add an external drive and I stuck with all the recommendations at the start of this post: I put a WD AV-GP WD10EVCS (not WD10EACS) in an Antec MX-1 case used a 1m SIIG cable. I pulled the power plug on the TiVo, plugged in the external drive, powered up the drive, and plugged in the TiVo. 

It just stays on the orange "sunrise" screen with the "powering up" message -- never gets past this, even after more than an hour. When I unplug the TiVo, disconnect the drive, and replug power to the TiVo, it boots up normally in just a few minutes.

I read about this problem back in the October 2007 posts with v9.2j, but frankly I gave up trying to read forward from there through all 43 pages of posts looking for the solution. So I jumped to the end (post 1287) and read backwards, up to Post 1171, but still didn't find this addressed.

Any help would be much appreciated.


----------



## thomaslue

richsadams said:


> That's not a bad price, but nothing to get too excited about. The DB35 series is a very good choice though and you can't go wrong IMHO.
> 
> For a few dollars more you could consider this WD 1TB model for an external drive...
> 
> The one dwit is referring to (Seagate's new 1TB drive) is a very good drive as well....


Thanks for the info!
These last two drives don't have the same "good for DVR" marketing that the DB35 series does. I guess that doesn't matter?


----------



## richsadams

bbache said:


> I have a new TiVo S3 running v9.3a. I wanted to add an external drive and I stuck with all the recommendations at the start of this post: I put a WD AV-GP WD10EVCS (not WD10EACS) in an Antec MX-1 case used a 1m SIIG cable. I pulled the power plug on the TiVo, plugged in the external drive, powered up the drive, and plugged in the TiVo.
> 
> It just stays on the orange "sunrise" screen with the "powering up" message -- never gets past this, even after more than an hour. When I unplug the TiVo, disconnect the drive, and replug power to the TiVo, it boots up normally in just a few minutes.


Welcome to the forum...even under aggravating circumstances. And kudos for doing some homework before posting...although I think you went above and beyond the call of duty! AFAIK your issue is fairly unique...first time anyone has had a problem with the new WD10EVCS. But then only a few people here are using it and I cannot recall anyone using one as an external drive. You may have stumbled onto an issue or it could be that one or more of the components is simply faulty.

If you have a TiVo Series3 (and not a TiVo HD) it sounds as if you've done everything right. Something about your new eSATA drive is preventing the normal boot sequence. (But then you knew that.) When TiVo gets stuck on the "Powering up" screen it means that the motherboard is unable to communicate with the hard drive.

First I'd check the eSATA cable connections to/from TiVo. Are both ends snug? Any play on either end can be "fatal".

If all looks good (and it feels counter intuitive) I'd try connecting the eSATA drive to TiVo using the cable supplied with your Antec MX-1 enclosure to see if the SIIG cable is defective. (The cables supplied with the MX-1's for the past few months seem to be working fine, but you did the right thing getting a higher quality one.)

If that doesn't work I'd check the eSATA drive and enclosure by opening the MX-1 and then plugging it in to see if the hard drive is spinning up properly. You should be able to hear/feel it fire up. Of course if it doesn't, the drive or the enclosure is to blame.

If it's spinning up I'd eyeball all of the connections inside...wire leads to the eSATA connector from the bridge and such to be sure they look like what you'd expect.

If all seems well there, try connecting your eSATA drive to your PC via USB to see if your computer recognizes it. It's not unheard of to get a drive or enclosure that's DOA. If it does recognize it, try running WD's Lifeguard Diagnostic program to see if the drive is defective. That doesn't address the eSATA connector on the MX-1 being defective though; you'd need to get an eSATA PCI card to see if it's working.

If your PC doesn't recognize your eSATA drive, it may be the drive itself or the enclosure. Both WD and Antec are very good about replacing defective equipment...or you could return it to the vendor/retailer.

Me? I'd try the obvious (above) and if it's still a no-go, return everything and start over. OR you could go the route I went and eliminate the eSATA drive and just install your new 1TB drive internally using the free WinMFS program which is quite easy to use. Send the cable and enclosure back and put the money toward some popcorn and peanuts, some beer or a decent bottle of wine!  Others here may also have some more troubleshooting ideas.

Yours is an interesting story and your feedback on this "new" setup will be valuable. Good luck and let us know how it goes. :up:


----------



## richsadams

thomaslue said:


> Thanks for the info!
> These last two drives don't have the same "good for DVR" marketing that the DB35 series does. I guess that doesn't matter?


Both the WD and the new Seagate drives are very quiet and run cool. Those are the key points for TiVo users. TiVo is unable to take advantage of the other "DVR features" that the DB35 and Hitachi CinemaStar drives offer.


----------



## bbache

Thanks for the extensive feedback, Rich. It's not fun to be the first on the block with a new problem. I'll try your suggestions and let you know how it turns out.

Bill


----------



## robostock

FWIW, my first WD10EVCS was shipped DOA from Buy.com. If you have narrowed it down to be your HD then be sure which route too take.

I sent mine back and it took a total of 30 days to get it back.
or
Send it back to WD and get a refurb in 2 weeks.

Good luck!


----------



## richsadams

robostock said:


> FWIW, my first WD10EVCS was shipped DOA from Buy.com. If you have narrowed it down to be your HD then be sure which route too take.
> 
> I sent mine back and it took a total of 30 days to get it back.
> or
> Send it back to WD and get a refurb in 2 weeks.
> 
> Good luck!


Good point...I forgot about that. Agreed, if purchased on line, getting a replacement from WD is the way to go. :up:


----------



## bbache

I attached the MX-1 via USB to a Windows XP laptop and ran WD's DLGDIAG for Windows. The test sees the drive as a physical drive, but I get a cable error the instant the test starts. Specifically, the error message is: "Cable Test::Read diagnostics sector error!" (Not a typo -- there's a double colon.) After clicking OK, the test report says: "Cable test failed! Please check the cables." Tried two different USB cables; same result. Uninstalled and reinstalled the WD10EVCS. Same results. (I wanted to attach screen shots, but I don't know how.) 

DLGDIAG doesn't see the drive as a logical drive, by the way. Should it?

I didn't bother trying a second eSATA cable with the TiVo Series3 -- it was recording something I don't want to miss. At this point, I assume the enclosure is defective and I've notified both Antec and ANTonline.com, where I bought it.

Thanks for the help, fellas. Sure is nice not to be out in the cold all alone. Say, Rich, I see you're in Lake Oswego. We lived there for 20 years before downsizing to North Portland two years ago. 

Bill


----------



## richsadams

Hey there Bill. Glad (sort of) to hear that you've found the problem. It does sound like the enclosure, probably the bridge, is the source of TiVo's (and your) woes. The MX-1 has a pretty good track record here, but there's bound to be a dud once in a while I suppose.

I'm not sure about the program's drive recognition. It may have something to do with the drive being reformatted by TiVo when it's connected. 

Small world...there are actually quite a few folks from this area on the forum. I think we're all more interested in when summer will appear than TiVo right about now.


----------



## jgkurz

Hi All, I just upgraded my Tivo HD (6.3) so I could hook up any eSata drive. I followed Part III, #10 of this FAQ. 

I decided to try the 1TB WD My Book from Costco. So far everything works well except the drive goes into standby after 10 minutes of activity. When I wake up in the morning the Tivo is always hung in the "Powering Up" screen. I noticed that the blue light on the My Book drive is off at this point. To fix the problem I unplug the Tivo, press the soft power switch on the My Book so the blue light on the front of the drive comes back on. I then plug the Tivo back in. Using this procedure it always restarts fine.

Now that I have recordings on the drive I'm thinking about cracking the My Book case and putting the drive in an eSata case that always has power applied.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this issue?

Thank you.


----------



## richsadams

jgkurz said:


> Hi All, I just upgraded my Tivo HD (6.3) so I could hook up any eSata drive. I followed Part III, #10 of this FAQ.
> 
> I decided to try the 1TB WD My Book from Costco. So far everything works well except the drive goes into standby after 10 minutes of activity. When I wake up in the morning the Tivo is always hung in the "Powering Up" screen. I noticed that the blue light on the My Book drive is off at this point. To fix the problem I unplug the Tivo, press the soft power switch on the My Book so the blue light on the front of the drive comes back on. I then plug the Tivo back in. Using this procedure it always restarts fine.
> 
> Now that I have recordings on the drive I'm thinking about cracking the My Book case and putting the drive in an eSata case that always has power applied.
> 
> Does anyone have any thoughts on this issue?
> 
> Thank you.


Well...I guess my thoughts are you shouldn't have tried to use that particular drive.  Section III #6 of the first post/FAQ specifically says that the WD My Book series of external drives do not work with TiVo. If you were bored enough to look back over this thread you'd find that a number of folks here tried them several months ago without success. Speculation was that there was a problem with that drive's three-way bridge (USB/Firewire/eSATA) that TiVo refused to deal with.

That it worked at all is quite surprising! To me it says that they've changed something on it. That it's still failing at some point also says that whatever they changed, it wasn't enough.

Hard drives often have firmware that will cause them to spin down after a set idle period...they go to sleep when they haven't had any activity for a while. That's good for the environment, but obviously bad for TiVo. It appears that the My Book drive you have goes into "standby". Computers can send a "wake up call" to hard drives. TiVo doesn't have that ability. Moving that drive to another case will probably not resolve the powering off problem as the instructions would be in the drive's firmware; nothing to do with the enclosure. It would also void the warranty.

My advice would be to properly divorce it (unplug TiVo, remove the drive, plug TiVo back in and follow the screen instructions) and return the unit to Costco. (Yes, you will loose any recordings made from the point you installed the eSATA drive, but any earlier recordings will remain.) Then I'd recommend reading all of the pertinent information on the first post of this thread and proceed from there. If you want a 1TB external you can choose from several on the recommended list and put it into an Antec MX-1 enclosure.

My two cents? Don't waste your time and money on external drives. You're obviously bright enough to upgrade the internal drive using WinMFS. The small amount of additional space you get from the pathetic TiVo HD drive isn't worth having IMHO. So buy one of the bare drives on the recommended list and upgrade the internal drive. Put the original drive on the shelf for safe-keeping. If anything ever goes wrong you can always put it back in and have an operating TiVo in no time. If you find that 1TB isn't enough you can always marry an external drive to it with a couple of clicks in the WinMFS program. :up:

BTW...did you notice that bright orange object in the sky today? Might be a good idea to get outside and enjoy it while we can!


----------



## jgkurz

richsadams said:


> Well...I guess my thoughts are you shouldn't have tried to use that particular drive.  Section III #6 of the first post/FAQ specifically says that the WD My Book series of external drives do not work with TiVo. If you were bored enough to look back over this thread you'd find that a number of folks here tried them several months ago without success. Speculation was that there was a problem with that drive's three-way bridge (USB/Firewire/eSATA) that TiVo refused to deal with.
> 
> That it worked at all is quite surprising! To me it says that they've changed something on it. That it's still failing at some point also says that whatever they changed, it wasn't enough.
> 
> Hard drives often have firmware that will cause them to spin down after a set idle period...they go to sleep when they haven't had any activity for a while. That's good for the environment, but obviously bad for TiVo. It appears that the My Book drive you have goes into "standby". Computers can send a "wake up call" to hard drives. TiVo doesn't have that ability. Moving that drive to another case will probably not resolve the powering off problem as the instructions would be in the drive's firmware; nothing to do with the enclosure. It would also void the warranty.
> 
> My advice would be to properly divorce it (unplug TiVo, remove the drive, plug TiVo back in and follow the screen instructions) and return the unit to Costco. (Yes, you will loose any recordings made from the point you installed the eSATA drive, but any earlier recordings will remain.) Then I'd recommend reading all of the pertinent information on the first post of this thread and proceed from there. If you want a 1TB external you can choose from several on the recommended list and put it into an Antec MX-1 enclosure.
> 
> My two cents? Don't waste your time and money on external drives. You're obviously bright enough to upgrade the internal drive using WinMFS. The small amount of additional space you get from the pathetic TiVo HD drive isn't worth having IMHO. So buy one of the bare drives on the recommended list and upgrade the internal drive. Put the original drive on the shelf for safe-keeping. If anything ever goes wrong you can always put it back in and have an operating TiVo in no time. If you find that 1TB isn't enough you can always marry an external drive to it with a couple of clicks in the WinMFS program. :up:
> 
> BTW...did you notice that bright orange object in the sky today? Might be a good idea to get outside and enjoy it while we can!


Just got home from the Portland Beavers game. I bought the tickets earlier this week hoping for good weather. Wow did we luck out. 

Anyways, back to business. I thought I'd read and searched extensively on adding a non-approved external drive to my Tivo HD. Apparently I missed the thread that said the My Book drives don't work even if get it to connect. I also think you hit the nail on the head regarding the issue being the drive firmware and not the enclosure. I just purchased a new LCD 52" and wanted to record as much HD as possible. The 160GB drive ran out of room quickly. I'm not sure what I'll do next, but it will probably include returning the 1TB My Book drive to Costco since I have all the original packing.

Thanks for the response.


----------



## drcos

Is there a replacement for the WD10EVCS? This drive is not in stock anywhere (that I would buy from), and one vendor indicates the drive is discontinued.


----------



## jgkurz

drcos said:


> Is there a replacement for the WD10EVCS? This drive is not in stock anywhere (that I would buy from), and one vendor indicates the drive is discontinued.


I couldn't find one either. Everyone is out of stock. I took that as a bad sign and purchased this "approved" drive.

http://www.lagoom.com/Hitachi_1TB_3.5_SATA_3G_DESKTOP/0A35274/partinfo-id-574706.html


----------



## richsadams

Western Digital's WD10EVCS line of DVR drives is brand new more-or-less. We saw the same "shortage" when they first introduced the WD10EACS last year. Everyone had them and then no one could get them. Retailers tend to error on the side of caution when stocking a new product...not knowing how high the demand will be. The same issue occurred with Antec's MX-1 enclosures but they are plentiful now as well.

The Hitachi is a good choice and so is the new Seagate 1TB (although they are also sold out on line, all of our Best Buy's show them in stock). Samsung makes a nice drive as well. If you're wanting one of the new WD AV GP drives, hang in there...I suspect there will be plenty in the coming weeks once production and inventory catch up.


----------



## richsadams

jgkurz said:


> Anyways, back to business. I thought I'd read and searched extensively on adding a non-approved external drive to my Tivo HD. Apparently I missed the thread that said the My Book drives don't work even if get it to connect. I also think you hit the nail on the head regarding the issue being the drive firmware and not the enclosure. I just purchased a new LCD 52" and wanted to record as much HD as possible. The 160GB drive ran out of room quickly. I'm not sure what I'll do next, but it will probably include returning the 1TB My Book drive to Costco since I have all the original packing.
> 
> Thanks for the response.


Sounds good Bill. Keep us posted on what you end up doing. :up:

(Go Beavers!)


----------



## m-hdtv

Will the Hitachi Feature Tool allow adjustment of a WD drive using the SATA->USB adapter? I only have a laptop and want to make the adjustment.


----------



## jlib

No, but you can use any Linux boot disk and the hdparm command.


----------



## andy_hd

My experience has been that the 'hdparm' command will not work over a USB -> SATA link. I don't have a native SATA PC, so I'm also looking for a solution to this issue.


----------



## andy_hd

jlib said:


> No, but you can use any Linux boot disk and the hdparm command.


Well I followed this link and while simontiki claims to have success, I was never able to make this work. Over at mfslive, Spike also says it won't work:

*Spike
mfslive

Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 1227

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:26 am Post subject: Reply with quote
You can't set AAM via USB adaper.
You will have to use IDE or SATA connection.
*


----------



## jgkurz

richsadams said:


> Sounds good Bill. Keep us posted on what you end up doing. :up:
> 
> (Go Beavers!)


Who is Bill....? I usually go by John


----------



## richsadams

jgkurz said:


> Who is Bill....? I usually go by John


Bill? Who the h**l is Bill anyway? I said John didn't I? 

No offense Bill.


----------



## jlib

andy_hd said:


> My experience has been that the 'hdparm' command will not work over a USB -> SATA link. I don't have a native SATA PC, so I'm also looking for a solution to this issue.


I was relying on this comment regarding success. I have not personally done it so those who actually claim to have success should chime in. Why does spike list the hdparm command for USB drives in his docs if he says it doesn't work over USB?


----------



## rlawlis

Help. 

Trying to copy original drive from 160gb TivoHD to 1tb seagate.

Using WinMFS latest version, beta 8, MS XP Pro sp3, I tried connecting the original tivoHD drive both through a serial ata port and a usb 2.0 port. In both cases I get same WinMFS error message when I try to pick the 160gb TivoHD drive: 

Error 7 "Wrong tivo partition signature!". 

Winmfs has no trouble "seeing" the drive, its capacity: 160gb, interface type, os type:tivo, etc. whatever shows up on the pick screen. 

At a complete loss. 

More bad news. 

I put the original Tivo drive back in the TivoHD and now the TivoHD just cycles between the "power up" and "just a few minutes more" screens. 

I don't know what the boot sequence is for this machine but I suspect that the power up cycle reads from solid state memory and then does a drive seek at the few minutes more screen. At which point the os can't read the drive and does a power cycle. 

How do I get the drive back? 

Thanks,

R Lawlis


----------



## dwit

rlawlis said:


> Help.
> 
> Trying to copy original drive from 160gb TivoHD to 1tb seagate.
> 
> Using WinMFS latest version, beta 8, MS XP Pro sp3, I tried connecting the original tivoHD drive both through a serial ata port and a usb 2.0 port. In both cases I get same WinMFS error message when I try to pick the 160gb TivoHD drive:
> 
> Error 7 "Wrong tivo partition signature!".
> 
> Winmfs has no trouble "seeing" the drive, its capacity: 160gb, interface type, os type:tivo, etc. whatever shows up on the pick screen.
> 
> At a complete loss.
> 
> More bad news.
> 
> I put the original Tivo drive back in the TivoHD and now the TivoHD just cycles between the "power up" and "just a few minutes more" screens.
> 
> I don't know what the boot sequence is for this machine but I suspect that the power up cycle reads from solid state memory and then does a drive seek at the few minutes more screen. At which point the os can't read the drive and does a power cycle.
> 
> How do I get the drive back?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> R Lawlis


Sounds like xp may have messed up the "boot sector"(my wording).

Winmfs instructions have a couple of methods of *possibly *correcting this. One method is if you have backed up this "boot sector" , near when you first connected to pc. There is also another method(I think) if you have not done the back up. It's there in the online guide. Just read it thoroughly. Correct term is "boot page". This "other" method is the Fix Bootpage Tool.

Remember, when you connect the Tivo to the pc, the very first thing you should do is to make the truncated backup of the Tivo drive. You really should not do anything else until this is done. That way, worst case scenario, you have your (working)Tivo image to restore to the drive if something goes awry.

Good luck. Hope things work out. Keep us posted.

"...Mounting drives
There are numerous discussions on why connecting a TiVo drive to a Windows machine is bad because it will make the drive not boot. It's partly true. Older Windows OS versions like 2000 did auto mount a drive and assigned a letter if you booted the drive even though it's not mounted. This behavior is changed since Windows 2000 sp2 or later so rest assured. Even if that happens, all it does it overwrite TiVo bootpage which is on sector 0, or first 512 bytes of the hard drive with Windows version of MBR. You can easily fix that problem with the included "Fix Bootpage" tool. You can also backup your bootpage with the backup option...."


----------



## rlawlis

dwit said:


> Sounds like xp may have messed up the "boot sector"(my wording). .. One method is if you have backed up this "boot sector" , near when you first connected to pc. There is also another method(I think) if you have not done the back up. It's there in the online guide. Just read it thoroughly. Correct term is "boot page". This "other" method is the Fix Bootpage Tool...Remember, when you connect the Tivo to the pc, the very first thing you should do is to make the truncated backup of the Tivo drive....


These sound like good places to start but it's difficult to make a backup if the application won't let you pick the drive you want to backup or fix. I can't get past the WinMFS "Select Drive" dialog. All I did was 1) attach drive to XP machine, 2) boot xp, 3) run WinMFS, 4) Select Drive. 5) read error message. If you cannot select the tivo drive you cannot get to any of the backup of fix tool dialogs in WinMFS.

Maybe the linux version can repair the drive. Any ideas out there?


----------



## dwit

rlawlis said:


> These sound like good places to start but it's difficult to make a backup if the application won't let you pick the drive you want to backup or fix. I can't get past the WinMFS "Select Drive" dialog. All I did was 1) attach drive to XP machine, 2) boot xp, 3) run WinMFS, 4) Select Drive. 5) read error message. If you cannot select the tivo drive you cannot get to any of the backup of fix tool dialogs in WinMFS.
> 
> Maybe the linux version can repair the drive. Any ideas out there?


That was just a warning for the future and anyone else that plans on connecting a Tivo drive to a PC.

*Read* down the guide for the *"Fix Boot Page Tool"* procedure. It may yet correct the matter. This is the *original drive *we're talking about here.

Also, there are forums there at mfslive.org and the developer there(Spike) usually, eventually responds and posts.

"Fix Bootpage Option 1 & 2 

If Tivo bootpage is damaged, use this tool to fix it. There is option 1 & 2 as there is no way of knowing which partitions are active. So you have 50/50 chance of guessing it right. Try option 1 and see if it boots up properly and has the correct software. If not try option2."


----------



## ilh

I have saved the original boot page from my THD made with WinMFS. PM me if you want it.

--Lee


----------



## husky55

Just for info. Winmfs works fine in my WinXP Pro-SP3. My Sata drives were configured as AHCI instead of IDE .

However, when I upgraded the Tivo HD, my XP was SP2. Just installed SP3 yesterday.


----------



## rlawlis

ilh said:


> I have saved the original boot page from my THD made with WinMFS. PM me if you want it.
> 
> --Lee


Thanks but according to Spike the partition table somehow got blown. So now I either have to find an original tivoHD disk to copy or learn to use pdisk to reconstruct it. Anyone know where I can find pdisk help?


----------



## bomberjim

I've read through alot of the information here but still have several questions.

1. I'm considering doing an internal drive upgrade on a Tivo HD. I'd like to put in a 500GB drive as that seems to be the sweet spot price wise and would meet my needs. The "approved" list of drives is a little light on 500GB models, and I'm not really interested in one of the "AV" models. Is this drive http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136149 acceptable for use?

2. I'd also like to use a USB to SATA adapter. New Egg has several available, can I just go with the cheapest one? One of the ones that was referenced previously in this thread is no longer available.


----------



## richsadams

bomberjim said:


> I've read through alot of the information here but still have several questions.
> 
> 1. I'm considering doing an internal drive upgrade on a Tivo HD. I'd like to put in a 500GB drive as that seems to be the sweet spot price wise and would meet my needs. The "approved" list of drives is a little light on 500GB models, and I'm not really interested in one of the "AV" models. Is this drive http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136149 acceptable for use?
> 
> 2. I'd also like to use a USB to SATA adapter. New Egg has several available, can I just go with the cheapest one? One of the ones that was referenced previously in this thread is no longer available.


AFAIK no one here has tried using that particular drive, but I don't see any reason it wouldn't work. Before installing it you should probably lower the automatic acoustical settings from the stock setting to 128 using the Hitachi Feature Tool. That will make the drive run much quieter (w/o affecting the performance.)

With regard to the USB to SATA adapter, you usually get what you pay for so I wouldn't skimp. Are you using a laptop? If not, most PC's less than a few years old have at least four SATA connectors on the mother board. Using a regular SATA cable (very inexpensive) to connect your drives directly to your PC's MB is a much better way to go. Keep in mind that the drive you've mentioned is "OEM", which means it doesn't come with any cables at all...power, SATA, etc. so you'd need to buy those separately. You may be able to find the retail/boxed version of the same drive locally and that will have both SATA and power cables.

Best of luck and keep us posted! :up:


----------



## jgkurz

richsadams said:


> Sounds good Bill. Keep us posted on what you end up doing. :up:


I decided to copy the incompatible My Book drive to an Antec MX-1 with a Hitachi 1TB Cinemastar using dd-rescue. I posted additional details here:

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6269529#post6269529

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6269420#post6269420


----------



## richsadams

jgkurz said:


> I decided to copy the incompatible My Book drive to an Antec MX-1 with a Hitachi 1TB Cinemastar using dd-rescue. I posted additional details here:
> 
> http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6269529#post6269529
> 
> http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6269420#post6269420


Excellent posts John. Thanks for the detailed info! :up: You may want to tell your story over on the MFSLive forum as well. I'm sure there are some folks that would be interested.


----------



## vegaspl

I regret that I had not stumbled on this site sooner.
Regarding ESAT Compatibility with DTV's HR20-100; HR20-700; HR21-100 & HR21-700

I have had a heck of a time trying to get the two Seagate Free Agent 750GB External drives to work with what? 
I finally have the seagates to work consistantly with my HR20-100's

Just a note of information:

The original internal Drives are still intact, however not accessible while Seagate is Active. IOW, the recordings that were on the original drive can be accessed if the Seagate is disconnected.

Being somewhat of a "Tech" novice, I am very frustrated that I didn't know about this site back then.

With regard to what I posted here forgive me if it has been covered before

Another subject: Is the any relatively simple way to add External drives to any of the HR10-250's I have that were not upgraded originally?
See my Signature


----------



## jlib

bomberjim said:


> ...I'm considering doing an internal drive upgrade on a Tivo HD. I'd like to put in a 500GB drive as that seems to be the sweet spot price wise and would meet my needs... Is this drive http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136149 acceptable for use?


Yes, it is acceptable but no way is it the "sweet spot" price-wise. Staying with the WD Green Power line you linked to and using the same vendor one gets this:

500GB = $90

750GB = $120

1TB = $200

So, any price under $135 makes the 750GB a better bargain per GB than the 500GB at $90.


----------



## bomberjim

True enough. Actually I figured that out shortly after I posted and ended up ordering a 750. Thanks for the comments guys.

Jim L


----------



## bbache

bbache said:


> I attached the MX-1 via USB to a Windows XP laptop and ran WD's DLGDIAG for Windows. The test sees the drive as a physical drive, but I get a cable error the instant the test starts. Specifically, the error message is: "Cable Test::Read diagnostics sector error!" (Not a typo -- there's a double colon.) After clicking OK, the test report says: "Cable test failed! Please check the cables." Tried two different USB cables; same result. Uninstalled and reinstalled the WD10EVCS. Same results. (I wanted to attach screen shots, but I don't know how.)
> 
> DLGDIAG doesn't see the drive as a logical drive, by the way. Should it?
> 
> I didn't bother trying a second eSATA cable with the TiVo Series3 -- it was recording something I don't want to miss. At this point, I assume the enclosure is defective and I've notified both Antec and ANTonline.com, where I bought it.
> 
> Bill


Update: Well, I got a replacement MX-1 from Antec and got the same "cable" error message when I attached via USB and ran WD's DLGDIAG diagnostic program. Attached to the TiVo Series 3, I also get the same problem as before: hung at the orange "sunrise" screen with the "powering up" message and never getting past that.

Maybe the WD hard drive is bad, but that seems unlikely because the diagnostic program reports the correct drive model number and capacity. It occurs to me: do I have to format the drive first? If so, what format?

Can anyone suggest how else I might test the hard drive without sending it back to WD?

Bill


----------



## bbache

bbache said:


> Update: Well, I got a replacement MX-1 from Antec and got the same "cable" error message when I attached via USB and ran WD's DLGDIAG diagnostic program. Attached to the TiVo Series 3, I also get the same problem as before: hung at the orange "sunrise" screen with the "powering up" message and never getting past that.
> 
> Maybe the WD hard drive is bad, but that seems unlikely because the diagnostic program reports the correct drive model number and capacity. It occurs to me: do I have to format the drive first? If so, what format?
> 
> Can anyone suggest how else I might test the hard drive without sending it back to WD?
> 
> Bill


P. S.: My laptop's WindowsXP >Computer Management>Disk Management does not see the USB-attached WD drive.

I am using the drive as I received it. There are no jumper pins. The instructions on the drive say to:
* Jumper pins 1 and 2 to enable Spread Spectrum Clocking (SSC);
* Jumper pins 3 and 4 to enable Power Up in Standby (PUIS); and
* Jumper pins 5 and 6 to enable 1.5GB PHY.
I've assumed I shouldn't do any of these, but let me know if I'm wrong.

I've thought about formatting the drive in NTFS and then seeing if I can run tests, but at this point I don't even know how I would format it. I have no tower PC to work with, only my laptop.

Thanks again,

Bill


----------



## husky55

@bill,

Problem : Neither Tivo S3 nor Laptop XP recognizes your new WD 1TB HD.

Diagnostic so far: replace MX-1 enclosure, cables. Run WD diagnostic tool. No go.

Suggestions: 

1. You need to isolate the problem. To do that you need to assure yourself that the MX-1 and cable is working properly . So replace the new WD HD with and older HD . Your XP laptop, assuming it has a newer chipset should see the new HD and all the other opticals drives, HD and other infos. If it does not see it the newly attached HD, then you have connection problem since your test HD is supposed to be working.

2. Tivo S3 if it recognizes your WD 1 TB will format it with its own file system and added it to your Tivo storage capability. XP will see your HD as unformatted and not ready for use in disk management in the Computer management section. There are a couple steps to add it to windows but you do not need to do that.

3. I suspect WD tools trying to run diagnostic tests on a WD drive not connected properly (somehow due to connector or cable etc..) might have corrupt the firmware or the boot sequence of the WD 1 TB drive. This usually involve a few bytes at the very beginning of the drive. Or another possibility is that your chipset and bios in your laptop XP could not automatically recognize the drive.

4. You could reboot your XP and enter bios ( on some computer it is the delete key during boot up) and see if your HD is in there. You can also use the DOS command checkdisk /all to see al your drives and partitions. But XP should do it for you.

5. Your WD might have been corrupted. With a new drive, be sure that it is recognized in bios, XP before running any WD tools or any tool.

I know that it is extremely frustrating to have this problem. A problem that usually nobody would expect to have.

Good luck,


----------



## Duke

bbache said:


> Update: ....Can anyone suggest how else I might test the hard drive without sending it back to WD? Bill


Try using a program like "Spinrite" from Gibson Research (grc.com); it's an excellent program for ferreting out drive problems.


----------



## Clentz

Duke said:


> Try using a program like "Spinrite" from Gibson Research (grc.com); it's an excellent program for ferreting out drive problems.


I have been using Spinrite since the early days (I used it on both of my 1TB Hitachi drives) prior to their use.
Carl


----------



## bbache

husky55 said:


> @bill,
> 
> Problem : Neither Tivo S3 nor Laptop XP recognizes your new WD 1TB HD.
> 
> Diagnostic so far: replace MX-1 enclosure, cables. Run WD diagnostic tool. No go.
> 
> Suggestions:
> 
> 1. You need to isolate the problem. To do that you need to assure yourself that the MX-1 and cable is working properly . So replace the new WD HD with and older HD . Your XP laptop, assuming it has a newer chipset should see the new HD and all the other opticals drives, HD and other infos. If it does not see it the newly attached HD, then you have connection problem since your test HD is supposed to be working.
> 
> 2. Tivo S3 if it recognizes your WD 1 TB will format it with its own file system and added it to your Tivo storage capability. XP will see your HD as unformatted and not ready for use in disk management in the Computer management section. There are a couple steps to add it to windows but you do not need to do that.
> 
> 3. I suspect WD tools trying to run diagnostic tests on a WD drive not connected properly (somehow due to connector or cable etc..) might have corrupt the firmware or the boot sequence of the WD 1 TB drive. This usually involve a few bytes at the very beginning of the drive. Or another possibility is that your chipset and bios in your laptop XP could not automatically recognize the drive.
> 
> 4. You could reboot your XP and enter bios ( on some computer it is the delete key during boot up) and see if your HD is in there. You can also use the DOS command checkdisk /all to see al your drives and partitions. But XP should do it for you.
> 
> 5. Your WD might have been corrupted. With a new drive, be sure that it is recognized in bios, XP before running any WD tools or any tool.
> 
> I know that it is extremely frustrating to have this problem. A problem that usually nobody would expect to have.
> 
> Good luck,


Thanks for the tips. Thanks, too, to Duke and Clentz for the SpinRite suggestion. Meanwhile, I tried the Disk Utility on my wife's iMac and it couldn't run any first aid because of an "Input/Output problem," so I figured I do indeed have a defective and/or corrupted drive and have started the RMA process with WD. If the replacement shows the same problems you'll hear my screams.

Bill


----------



## jlib

bbache said:


> Update: Well, I got a replacement MX-1 from Antec and got the same "cable" error message when I attached via USB and ran WD's DLGDIAG diagnostic program. Attached to the TiVo Series 3, I also get the same problem as before: hung at the orange "sunrise" screen with the "powering up" message and never getting past that.
> 
> Maybe the WD hard drive is bad, but that seems unlikely because the diagnostic program reports the correct drive model number and capacity. It occurs to me: do I have to format the drive first? If so, what format?
> 
> Can anyone suggest how else I might test the hard drive without sending it back to WD?


I did a search on that error and it is a little misleading in that it occurs during the cable integrity test but actually never has anything to do with the cable. In this case, the diagnostics sector on the drive is not readable (this is always bad news, by the way). If you subsequently did an extended test you would probably get a more complete and catastrophic failure message. So, sending the drive back as you did is the best solution.


----------



## afs12065

I recently purchased a S3 HD-DVR and had good success adding an eSATA expansion drive using the recommended 1TB Hitachi Cinemastar drive with the Antec MX-1 enclosure and SIIG cable. The DVR shipped with an older version of the OS (v8.x) and the external drive was not recognized initially but after going through the Guided Setup and updating to v9.3a everything worked beautifully. Thanks so much for the FAQ - it was immensely helpful.


----------



## richsadams

afs12065 said:


> I recently purchased a S3 HD-DVR and had good success adding an eSATA expansion drive using the recommended 1TB Hitachi Cinemastar drive with the Antec MX-1 enclosure and SIIG cable. The DVR shipped with an older version of the OS (v8.x) and the external drive was not recognized initially but after going through the Guided Setup and updating to v9.3a everything worked beautifully. Thanks so much for the FAQ - it was immensely helpful.


Welcome to the forum...and congrats on your upgrade! Now relax and enjoy.


----------



## thomaslue

FYI, I am not sure how reputable the vendor is, but I just saw a good price on the recommended 750GB Seagate DB35 here:
http://www.compsource.com/pn/ST3750840SCE/Seagate_394/


----------



## bbache

bbache said:


> Thanks for the tips. Thanks, too, to Duke and Clentz for the SpinRite suggestion. Meanwhile, I tried the Disk Utility on my wife's iMac and it couldn't run any first aid because of an "Input/Output problem," so I figured I do indeed have a defective and/or corrupted drive and have started the RMA process with WD. If the replacement shows the same problems you'll hear my screams.
> 
> Bill


Update #2: Success! It was a bad drive after all. TiVo brought up the replacement drive from WD exactly like I expected it to. Thanks to everyone for their help.

Bill


----------



## Karnwine

Hey, just want to say thanks to Spike and all the helpful posts in this thread. I just did an internal upgrade for my HD Tivo(up to 500gb) and was pleasantly surprised at how easy it was. The only trouble I ran into was my computer didn't have the right connections and I had to buy the usb/sata cable. For anyone out there like me who is hesitant to crack open the tivo, go for it! It couldn't be any easier. Thanks again


----------



## plumeria

Karnwine

I am in the same position as you - what cable did you buy exactly? I assume you need to have 2 SATA connections on it to plug in the Tivo drive and the new drive at the same time.

I am waiting for my 90 day warranty to expire before I crack open the box ;-)

Peter


----------



## Karnwine

Peter,
I used the instructions for copying all recordings in the first page of this thread and there is a link for the USB/Sata cable from NewEgg.com. Being that I'm a little impatient, I went to a local Frys and they had the same one as NewEgg(Just a couple of dollars more). I only had to buy one because I was able to use the plugs from my dvd/cd player for one of the drives. Simple and easy! You won't regret doing it. 

By the way, my TivoHD was just about full of recordings and it only took about 2 1/2 hours to transfer everything.


----------



## gotillu

Karnwine said:


> Peter,
> I used the instructions for copying all recordings in the first page of this thread and there is a link for the USB/Sata cable from NewEgg.com. Being that I'm a little impatient, I went to a local Frys and they had the same one as NewEgg(Just a couple of dollars more). I only had to buy one because I was able to use the plugs from my dvd/cd player for one of the drives. Simple and easy! You won't regret doing it.
> 
> By the way, my TivoHD was just about full of recordings and it only took about 2 1/2 hours to transfer everything.


I too spent last night to upgrade my TivoHD with a 1TB internal (WD10EACS) and a 750GB eSata (Seagate) drive. I have 231 Hrs of HD recording capacity now. Thanks to Spike and others on the forum for wonderful instructions to make it so easy. For me, it took about 3.5 hrs to copy the original 160GB drive (it was almost full).


----------



## plumeria

The WD10EVCS seems to be out of stock everywhere. Anyone if I can use the retail boxed version of what seems to be the WD10EACS for a TivoHD (not a Series 3)

This has the name WD1000CSRTL - e.g.as can be seen here
http://www.jr.com/western-digital/pe/WD_WD10000CSRTL/

The only thing I can find in this thread is this comment "The current version of the Western Digital 1TB WD10000CSRTL (retail bare drive) will not work as an internal drive upgrade for the TiVo Series3.", but no mention of TivoHD.

Thanks

peter


----------



## 1283

Works fine in TiVo HD. You can get a WD10EACS on eBay for $175 shipped, from a seller with very good rating.


----------



## husky55

plumeria said:


> The WD10EVCS seems to be out of stock everywhere. Anyone if I can use the retail boxed version of what seems to be the WD10EACS for a TivoHD (not a Series 3)
> 
> This has the name WD1000CSRTL - e.g.as can be seen here
> http://www.jr.com/western-digital/pe/WD_WD10000CSRTL/
> 
> The only thing I can find in this thread is this comment "The current version of the Western Digital 1TB WD10000CSRTL (retail bare drive) will not work as an internal drive upgrade for the TiVo Series3.", but no mention of TivoHD.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> peter


I actually have this drive. Bought at the same place you linked to (JR). Same retail package. Works great in Tivo HD.


----------



## thomaslue

I am seeing deals on the Antec MX-1 for $25. I just noticed that the ads say the maximum capacity is 750GB. But I thought I've read here that people are putting 1 TB drives in this enclosure. Also: I know this is off-topic, but I am curious of anyone knows what the throughput (transfer) speed of this Antec MX-1 is (compared to, say, a Firewire 400 enclosure). I ask because I am considering getting a second one for computer use.


----------



## ilh

Transfer speed when using eSATA is 3Gb/s according to Antec's web site. That's just SATA-II speed. Obviously the disk is the limiting factor. It also said it supports up to 1TB.

You'd be surprised what you can find in the first hit of a Google search for "Antec MX-1".


----------



## thomaslue

Thanks for the link. The real number I was looking for was the USB transfer speed (480Mbps) since my Macs don't have eSata ports or cards.


----------



## plumeria

Thanks to those who helped with my with recent question about the retail WD 1TB drive and TivoHD. I ended up ordering from B&H.

BTW, The Antec MX-1 is already sold out on buy.com ;-( Second time I have tried to pick it up at a discount and second time it was sold out when adding to cart. I guess they only have a few in stock..

peter


----------



## thomaslue

Does anyone have experience with a refurbished WD10EACS 1TB SATA?
The price ($156.23) is right, but the warranty is only 30 days...


----------



## ilh

I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. It isn't worth saving ~$50. Why was it returned? Do you really not want a 3-year warranty?


----------



## richsadams

thomaslue said:


> Does anyone have experience with a refurbished WD10EACS 1TB SATA?
> The price ($156.23) is right, but the warranty is only 30 days...


I agree w/ilh...it's not worth the risk.


----------



## lrhorer

+1 for my $.02, as well. Hard drives are just too frail to take that sort of risk for that small an amount of cash, if you ask me, unless you really are very unconcerned about its lifespan and that of its contents.


----------



## lrhorer

thomaslue said:


> I just noticed that the ads say the maximum capacity is 750GB. But I thought I've read here that people are putting 1 TB drives in this enclosure.


In fact there is no particular limit. Some of those adds were written when 750G was the largest available drive for consumers. The electronics are passive, so whatever the drive holds, the enclosure will support.



thomaslue said:


> Also: I know this is off-topic, but I am curious of anyone knows what the throughput (transfer) speed of this Antec MX-1 is (compared to, say, a Firewire 400 enclosure).


It's SATA II, which allows up to 3Gbps.


----------



## Chevy_Cowboy

Like others have mentioned, I'm having trouble getting a Western Digital WD10EVCS too. I've had one ordered from buy.com for 2 months, they keep promising its coming soon but never deliver.

Anyone know of a site that has them in stock or should I just cancel it and buy a non dvr drive?


----------



## plumeria

Chevy_Cowboy said:


> Like others have mentioned, I'm having trouble getting a Western Digital WD10EVCS too. I've had one ordered from buy.com for 2 months, they keep promising its coming soon but never deliver.
> 
> Anyone know of a site that has them in stock or should I just cancel it and buy a non dvr drive?


From everything I have read there is no practical difference between the WD10EACS and the WD10EVCS, except one is cheaper and available now and the other is not.. ;-)

peter


----------



## dwit

plumeria said:


> From everything I have read there is no practical difference between the WD10EACS and the WD10EVCS, except one is cheaper and available now and the other is not.. ;-)
> 
> peter


Depends which model Tivo you have and how you plan to use the drive.

As mentioned several times in this thread(prominently in 1st post), *The WD10EACS does not work correctly when installed internally in the S3.*


----------



## plumeria

dwit said:


> Depends which model Tivo you have and how you plan to use the drive.
> 
> As mentioned several times in this thread(prominently in 1st post), *The WD10EACS does not work correctly when installed internally in the S3.*


Good point to make... I has forgotten about the S3, but it is very clear on the first page of this thread, as you say.

peter


----------



## richsadams

Chevy_Cowboy said:


> Like others have mentioned, I'm having trouble getting a Western Digital WD10EVCS too. I've had one ordered from buy.com for 2 months, they keep promising its coming soon but never deliver.
> 
> Anyone know of a site that has them in stock or should I just cancel it and buy a non dvr drive?


dwit and plumeria are correct. For the most part TiVo cannot take advantage of some/most of the specific features of DVR dedicated hard drives.

If you have a TiVo HD (not the "original" Series3) you can use the WD10EACS as an internal upgrade without any issues. The drive is already fairly quiet but you can easily adjust the seek acoustics down to 128 using the Hitachi Feature Tool.


----------



## Chevy_Cowboy

I've got a S3 (two actually) but I use MX1 external enclosures and leave the stock internal drive alone.

Will the WD10EACS work ok in the MX1 on the S3?


----------



## richsadams

Chevy_Cowboy said:


> I've got a S3 (two actually) but I use MX1 external enclosures and leave the stock internal drive alone.
> 
> Will the WD10EACS work ok in the MX1 on the S3?


You should have no problems using the WD10EACS in an MX1 enclosure with your Series3(s). :up: The only time it presents a problem is when it's installed internally.

I should qualify that because I'm actually using a WD10EACS as an internal hard drive in my Series3...but it was the early "retail" version (WD10EACS-*32ZJB0*) which worked fine (for reasons speculated on but not truly known). It's been humming along for about seven months now. AFAIK that version is no longer available anywhere. The later OEM and "retail" versions (WD10EACS-*00ZJB0*) are the ones that refuse to restart from a menu (and more importantly update) reboot in Series3's.

Having said that...just so there's no confusion...the WD10EACS will work as an internal upgrade in TiVo HD's, but NOT Series3's. It will work as an expansion drive for either model. The newer WD10EVCS series has reportedly worked fine as an internal upgrade on both models (but is apparently hard to come by.)

Let us know how it goes.


----------



## Chevy_Cowboy

ok, thanks for your help. I'm emailing Buy.com now to cancel my WD10EVCS order. 

Knowin my luck they'll have them in stock monday lol.


----------



## shrike4242

I've been going through this thread back and forth, as I've been working to get a Series 3 and roll my own eSATA drive for it.

From what I've seen, most people are going with either the WD AV-GP or the Hitachi Cinemastar drives and not much has been said about the Seagate DB35 drives. I'm leaning towards the DB35's, mainly for the 5 year Seagate warranty, and that I've used Seagate drives with much better success over the years than WD or Hitachi/IBM. 

I wanted to get some feedback and see if people had opinions either way about the DB35 vs the AV-GP and the Cinemastar drives. I'd rather roll my own eSATA drive, as the Antec MX-1 has a 3 year warranty and the three drives above are either 3 or 5 year warrantied.


----------



## Chevy_Cowboy

shrike4242 said:


> I've been going through this thread back and forth, as I've been working to get a Series 3 and roll my own eSATA drive for it.
> 
> From what I've seen, most people are going with either the WD AV-GP or the Hitachi Cinemastar drives and not much has been said about the Seagate DB35 drives. I'm leaning towards the DB35's, mainly for the 5 year Seagate warranty, and that I've used Seagate drives with much better success over the years than WD or Hitachi/IBM.
> 
> I wanted to get some feedback and see if people had opinions either way about the DB35 vs the AV-GP and the Cinemastar drives. I'd rather roll my own eSATA drive, as the Antec MX-1 has a 3 year warranty and the three drives above are either 3 or 5 year warrantied.


I've got a 10 month old DB35 750gb drive in a MX1 on my first S3... and its worked flawlessly. My preference would be a seagate drive over a western digital drive... The only reason I'm looking at different brands for the 2nd S3 is because I want a 1tb drive and so far theres no DB35 that big.


----------



## jlib

Chevy_Cowboy said:


> I've got a 10 month old DB35 750gb drive in a MX1 on my first S3... and its worked flawlessly. My preference would be a seagate drive over a western digital drive... The only reason I'm looking at different brands for the 2nd S3 is because I want a 1tb drive and so far theres no DB35 that big.


The only reason for the use of the DB-35.3 series was that it was the only Seagate alternative in their line to the then current 7200.10 desktop series that was quiet enough to use in a DVR. The current 7200.11 desktop series is actually quieter than the DB-35.3 according to published Seagate specs so the premium priced DB-35.3 is of no particular value anymore for TiVo upgrades.


----------



## 1283

You may want to consider the RMA process of the various brands. "Before" means sending in the bad drive before receiving the replacement. "After" means sending in the bad drive after receiving the replacement (advance RMA), which means you may be able copy data to the replacement drive, and you can ship the bad drive back in the manufacturer approved shipping box.

WD: before or after (no fee)
Seagate: before, or after with a fee ($27?)
Hitachi: before only
Samsung: I don't even understand who handles the RMA process.


----------



## shrike4242

Chevy_Cowboy said:


> I've got a 10 month old DB35 750gb drive in a MX1 on my first S3... and its worked flawlessly. My preference would be a seagate drive over a western digital drive... The only reason I'm looking at different brands for the 2nd S3 is because I want a 1tb drive and so far theres no DB35 that big.


Good to hear that the DB35.3 with the MX-1 has worked without any issue. The 1TB drives make a huge jump in price from the 750GB levels, so I think 1GB is out of my price range at the moment.



jlib said:


> The only reason for the use of the DB-35.3 series was that it was the only Seagate alternative in their line to the then current 7200.10 desktop series that was quiet enough to use in a DVR. The current 7200.11 desktop series is actually quieter than the DB-35.3 according to published Seagate specs so the premium priced DB-35.3 is of no particular value anymore for TiVo upgrades.


The only reason I'd lean towards a DB35.3 versus a 7200.11 is that I know the DB35.3 is rated for 24/7 usage in a DVR environment, and a 7200.11 isn't. Same situation with the WD RE2 drives, as they're rated as enterprise-class drives, and designed for 24/7 usage. Yeah, it might be $10-$15 more for a DB35.3 over a 7200.11, though it'll be a little piece of mind for me.



c3 said:


> You may want to consider the RMA process of the various brands. "Before" means sending in the bad drive before receiving the replacement. "After" means sending in the bad drive after receiving the replacement (advance RMA), which means you may be able copy data to the replacement drive, and you can ship the bad drive back in the manufacturer approved shipping box.
> 
> WD: before or after (no fee)
> Seagate: before, or after with a fee ($27?)
> Hitachi: before only
> Samsung: I don't even understand who handles the RMA process.


If Hitachi has no advance replacement, they're off the map with me. Seagate is $20 for an advance replacement, which shows up in 2 days guaranteed, plus comes with an approved box and a pre-paid mailer for the return shipment. Western Digital says they'll advance ship a drive, though don't specify how they do it, the timeframe they do it, and if it comes with a pre-paid mailer. Obviously, it'll come with an approved shipping box.

The specs between the WD AV-GP and the Seagate DB35.3 are pretty close for 750GB, with the WD drive having 16MB of cache and the Seagate having 8MB (16MB is available, though for an ugly price premium). Plus, it seems like the WD drive is sold out most places I've seen it.

Ended up ordering the 750GB Seagate DB35.3.


----------



## thomaslue

It's too bad this drive doesn't work. Such a great price!


----------



## dholzlein

Thank You everyone for all the great information!

I just upgraded the original drive of my TiVo HD to a 1T WD10EACS. I think it took me a total of about 1.5 hours, including copying my nearly full original drive. I connected both drives via internal SATA connections on my desktop machine and used WinMFS. Everything proceeded well, without any real issues. Getting the cover off was a little tricky. My recollection is that the FAQ says only a Torx 10 is required, which covered most bolts, but my drive was attached to its bracket with Torx 15 bolts. The boot time, especially the initial screen, seemed to take exceptionally long. I almost gave up, thinking I had screwed something up, but patience won out and it did eventually come up and everything was okay.

Thanks again for all the info. (Yes, I bothered to read all 46 pages.)

Got my 1T WD10EACS from zipzoomfly for $179 with free shipping, though I paid the extra $10 for 2nd day.
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10007017&prodlist=celebros

Drew


----------



## plumeria

dholzlein said:


> Thank You everyone for all the great information!
> 
> I just upgraded the original drive of my TiVo HD to a 1T WD10EACS. I think it took me a total of about 1.5 hours, including copying my nearly full original drive. I connected both drives via internal SATA connections on my desktop machine and used WinMFS. Everything proceeded well, without any real issues. Getting the cover off was a little tricky. My recollection is that the FAQ says only a Torx 10 is required, which covered most bolts, but my drive was attached to its bracket with Torx 15 bolts. The boot time, especially the initial screen, seemed to take exceptionally long. I almost gave up, thinking I had screwed something up, but patience won out and it did eventually come up and everything was okay.
> 
> Thanks again for all the info. (Yes, I bothered to read all 46 pages.)
> 
> Got my 1T WD10EACS from zipzoomfly for $179 with free shipping, though I paid the extra $10 for 2nd day.
> http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10007017&prodlist=celebros
> 
> Drew


Thanks for the extra info, dholzlein

Did you us the Hitachi Feature Tool to turn the seek acoustics down to 128, as some people have done? If so did you notice much of a difference?

I am going to swap my drive out this weekend.

Peter
p.s for folks in California, zipzoomfly charges tax, so not such a good deal.. ;-(


----------



## gotillu

plumeria said:


> Thanks for the extra info, dholzlein
> 
> Did you us the Hitachi Feature Tool to turn the seek acoustics down to 128, as some people have done? If so did you notice much of a difference?
> 
> I am going to swap my drive out this weekend.
> 
> Peter
> p.s for folks in California, zipzoomfly charges tax, so not such a good deal.. ;-(


Circuit City has the retail version of WD10EACS (WD10000CSRTL) for $157 + tax. Too bad I upgraded a week ago when this drive was selling at $200.

Ajay


----------



## 1283

gotillu said:


> Circuit City has the retail version of WD10EACS (WD10000CSRTL) for $157 + tax.


That was a temporary price mistake. Already dead.


----------



## richsadams

plumeria said:


> Did you us the Hitachi Feature Tool to turn the seek acoustics down to 128, as some people have done? If so did you notice much of a difference?


I used the Hitachi Feature Tool to change the AAM to 128 on our WD10EACS and to be honest I couldn't tell much difference while it was exposed let alone inside TiVo. IMHO if you didn't make the adjustment before installing your new drive it wouldn't be worth pulling it back out unless you're very sensitive or have the TiVo in your bedroom. It's simple to do while you're doing everything else beforehand however...your call of course. Best of luck and enjoy the added space! :up:


----------



## sandman1999

I have Tivo HD and what to make an external 1TB hard drive I have the antec mx-1 just need to get a hold of the WD10EVCS 1TB is it wise for me to wait for this HDD to become available or just find a different drive.? If i am changing drive what is the next best one thanks for the help


----------



## 1283

For TiVo HD, you can use WD10EACS for both internal and external drives.


----------



## dholzlein

plumeria said:


> Did you us the Hitachi Feature Tool to turn the seek acoustics down to 128, as some people have done? If so did you notice much of a difference?


I forgot. The living room where the unit sits has enough ambient noise that it's inaudible though.

I am however surprised that no one is selling a bracket to put a second drive internal. I read the posts about the person who attached it to the case, but there seems to be plenty of room for a wider bracket that could hold a second drive. There are even unused holes in the case floor just beyond the edge of the MB that could be used to anchor it, but even cantalevered with only the original mount points would probably be fine.

Drew
1T TiVo HD


----------



## richsadams

sandman1999 said:


> I have Tivo HD and what to make an external 1TB hard drive I have the antec mx-1 just need to get a hold of the WD10EVCS 1TB is it wise for me to wait for this HDD to become available or just find a different drive.? If i am changing drive what is the next best one thanks for the help


As C3 mentions, Western Digital's WD10EACS will work fine. Any of the drives listed on the first post of this thread (Section III, #27) will work fine as well. 
Since nothing but the "approved drive" works via plug and play you'll need to follow the directions in that same post to marry the internal and external drives using the WinMFS program.

And since the TiVo HD has such a small hard drive a better bet is to simply upgrade the internal hard drive (since you'll have to pull it out anyway) and put the original on the shelf as a backup. Everything you need to know is in the first post of this thread.


----------



## GregComeLately

gotillu said:


> Circuit City has the retail version of WD10EACS (WD10000CSRTL) for $157 + tax.


I was able to get in on this too, just in the nick of time, BUT.. it appears very likely that the HD I picked up isn't the "32" version but the dreaded "00", poison green (ivy) power to my precious S3. And from previous readings of this thread, I _thought_ I had all my ducks in a row, and by "ducks", I mean understanding how to navigate through the minefield of WD GP drive options. 

oh, well. Back it goes! Unless I try to make a little profit, selling it locally, in hopes of recouping at least _something_ from the wasted hour & a half of time in pursuit of this damned drive.


----------



## richsadams

Not sure what you mean when you say that "it appears very likely...". The full model number is printed on the drive:

WD 1TB OEM HDD: Model # WD10EACS-*00ZJB0*

WD 1TB Retail HDD: Model # WD10EACS-*32ZJB0*

If indeed it is the *00ZJB0* model you are correct, it probably will not work in your Series3. I say "probably" because drive specs change over time and I don't recall anyone trying one of those in a Series3 recently. You could give it a go and see what happens. Worst case is that it doesn't work, you put your original drive back in and return the new one.

If you do try it out the only way to know if there will be a problem is to initiate a menu restart after it's installed. (Messages and Settings > Restart or Reset TiVo > Restart TiVo.) If it fails, the problem still exists. If not, you may well qualify for the TiVo Pioneer Club and open new horizons for those that follow! 

On the other hand, if it's the *32ZJB0* model; you've struck gold because AFAIK they are no longer making that one...which does in fact work in the Series3 (and TiVo HD). Ours has been busy going on eight months now.

Let us know what you end up doing!


----------



## plumeria

I tried to update my internal HD for my TivoHD tonight, but ran in to some troubles with the FAQ on page 1 :-( I am trying to preserve recordings...

I ended up using USB->SATA adapters since the SATA PCI card I bought (promise technology junk) required me to create a floppy disk to install the driver. I haven't used or seen one of those in years..

Anyway, I am trying to follow the FAQ steps very carefully but soon hit a problem.

> #5 In WinMFS, click 'Select Drive' and select the two drives you 
> attached. Set 'Drive A' to the original drive. Do not select 
> 'Drive B.
>
I see both drive 2 (my original HD) and new drive 3 (WD10EACS) in the menu but it is not possible to select "the two drives I attached". I can pick one or the other for the A Drive - not both.

--> I just found out what the FAQ problem is - it has the Mscopy step in the wrong place! This is what lets you choose both. It looks like this partshould be rewritten a bit.

The text below seems to be more accurate (preserving as much of the original text as possible) and simpler.

&#8226; In WinMFS, click 'Select Drive'. Set 'Drive A' to the original drive. Do not select 'Drive B.

&#8226; In WinMFS, select the 'Backup' option to create a backup. Save the file to your local computer hard drive for backup purposes. Make sure you have enough space - for me it was 500MB for the non-recording backup.

You don't use this now. It's a backup for future use, should anything ever go wrong.

&#8226; In WinMFS, Select Tools -> Mfscopy to copy the full contents of the old drive -- including all recordings -- to the new. Designate the original drive, selected as 'A,' as the Source Drive A and the new drive as Destination Drive A."

Thanks

Peter
p.s reading other people's postings it seemed like "cake" but not as easy as I had hoped until I figured out the FAQ issue


----------



## 1283

plumeria said:


> It's a backup for future use, should anything ever go wrong.


If you do make a backup, make sure you test it by restoring it to a different drive and trying the drive in the TiVo. Otherwise, you may not have a usable backup when you really need it. My initial WinMFS backup files did *NOT* work.


----------



## Chevy_Cowboy

GregComeLately said:


> I was able to get in on this too, just in the nick of time, BUT.. it appears very likely that the HD I picked up isn't the "32" version but the dreaded "00", poison green (ivy) power to my precious S3. And from previous readings of this thread, I _thought_ I had all my ducks in a row, and by "ducks", I mean understanding how to navigate through the minefield of WD GP drive options.
> 
> oh, well. Back it goes! Unless I try to make a little profit, selling it locally, in hopes of recouping at least _something_ from the wasted hour & a half of time in pursuit of this damned drive.


Why not just buy a Antec MX1 external enclosure and plug it into the eSata port on the S3? Apparently the WD10EACS works fine as a external drive on the S3, it just has problems as an internal.

My WD10EACS arrived today, I'm getting ready to hook it up to my PC to run some surface checks on it before installing it.


----------



## richsadams

Chevy_Cowboy said:


> Why not just buy a Antec MX1 external enclosure and plug it into the eSata port on the S3? Apparently the WD10EACS works fine as a external drive on the S3, it just has problems as an internal.
> 
> My WD10EACS arrived today, I'm getting ready to hook it up to my PC to run some surface checks on it before installing it.


Good point and another option to returning the drive. (Although I'd really like to see if the more recent WD10EACS's will work internally in a Series3...you never know.) I've always been an internal upgrade proponent as it reduces the number of failure points, but our Series3 ran perfectly fine with an MX-1 and Seagate DB35 HDD until I upgraded the internal drive.

Let us know how your upgrade goes as well. :up:


----------



## Chevy_Cowboy

richsadams said:


> Let us know how your upgrade goes as well. :up:


The new WD10EACS passed the surface scans with flying colors, I thought about adjusting the AAM but I could barely hear it run, even with my ear a couple inches from it. So I just stuffed it in the MX-1 and hooked it up to my new S3, everything went smoothly and its happily recording suggestions as fast as it can lol.

I now have 2.25 terabytes of storage between two S3's (not counting the 1.5tb I have full of HD movies in my computer), for a grand total of 296 HD hours and nearly 3000 SD hours  That sounds like a ton, but I'm sure in a couple months we'll be out of space again 

Thanks for your help guys :up:


----------



## richsadams

Chevy_Cowboy said:


> The new WD10EACS passed the surface scans with flying colors, I thought about adjusting the AAM but I could barely hear it run, even with my ear a couple inches from it. So I just stuffed it in the MX-1 and hooked it up to my new S3, everything went smoothly and its happily recording suggestions as fast as it can lol.
> 
> I now have 2.25 terabytes of storage between two S3's (not counting the 1.5tb I have full of HD movies in my computer), for a grand total of 296 HD hours and nearly 3000 SD hours  That sounds like a ton, but I'm sure in a couple months we'll be out of space again
> 
> Thanks for your help guys :up:


Well done! :up:


----------



## GregComeLately

richsadams said:


> Not sure what you mean when you say that "it appears very likely...". The full model number is printed on the drive:
> 
> WD 1TB OEM HDD: Model # WD10EACS-*00ZJB0*
> 
> WD 1TB Retail HDD: Model # WD10EACS-*32ZJB0*


I stated it in that way because I haven't opened up the box. And as you've described before, only by opening the box to get a first hand peek at the drive label will I find out which of the two possible model #'s is on this particular drive.

But.. since everything said in this thread about the design of the outer carton and that the "..32.." model # version hasn't been seen since 2007, coupled with the fact that my box is stampd with the date of "2008", etc., I have to assume that it is the latter, non-viable drive version.



richsadams said:


> I say "probably" because drive specs change over time and I don't recall anyone trying one of those in a Series3 recently. You could give it a go and see what happens. Worst case is that it doesn't work, you put your original drive back in and return the new one.


I don't know.. I don't want to be one of those 'open the box, return it anyway' guys. Plus, it takes me oh so long to get around to doing these types of little projects. If I revealed to you all the so-called "little" tech type projects I've had lined up for at least the last two years, you'd spit at your screen! Either from laughter or disdain for not having accomplished them yet. So, the mere thought of having to pull the drive back out after a likely unsuccessful install and then having to do it all again later, well, it just isn't a wise course of action for me given my track record. 

But to entertain the thought for just a moment longer...



richsadams said:


> If you do try it out the only way to know if there will be a problem is to initiate a menu restart after it's installed. (Messages and Settings > Restart or Reset TiVo > Restart TiVo.) If it fails, the problem still exists. If not, you may well qualify for the TiVo Pioneer Club and open new horizons for those that follow!


So it would be clearcut as that? If it survives on the above the very first time, on what I guess you guys call the 'soft bootup', then I should be good to go? In other words, there has never been a report of one of these drives surviving the first one or few soft boots, only to fail thereafter on a subsequent soft boot?



Chevy_Cowboy said:


> Why not just buy a Antec MX1 external enclosure and plug it into the eSata port on the S3? Apparently the WD10EACS works fine as a external drive on the S3, it just has problems as an internal.


for a long time, I was contemplating doing just that. Then I decided that I would much prefer the tidy internal drive replacement. My a/v setup doesn't have the room to make the eSata external attachment method work gracefully. And, it's not like I'll be needing anything more than 1TB for a long while as it is.


----------



## richsadams

GregComeLately said:


> So it would be clearcut as that? If it survives on the above the very first time, on what I guess you guys call the 'soft bootup', then I should be good to go? In other words, there has never been a report of one of these drives surviving the first one or few soft boots, only to fail thereafter on a subsequent soft boot?


 Yes, simple as that. It either works or it doesn't and AFAIK that particular model (WD10EACS-00ZJB0) still doesn't work as an internal hard drive upgrade in Series3's. The fact that the drive prevented soft reboots was only discovered by accident. It wouldn't be a big deal (you could always do a hard reboot; unplug TiVo and plug it back in) if it were not for upgrades...which automatically perform at least one soft reboot. That would leave TiVo in an inoperable state until a hard reboot could be performed...could be nasty if you were on vacation, etc.

Understood about doing some of those "planned improvements" that we all put off...sometimes forever. However, opening the box and taking a look at the model number shouldn't cause anyone any heartburn as long as everything is intact upon returning it. But again, understood if that's not in your comfort zone.

Best of luck on whatever you decide to do...just let us know when it gets done!


----------



## nyjklein

For any of you looking for the WD10EVCS for an internal update of your S3, I found some here:

http://www.upgradenation.com/WD_WESTERN_DIGITAL_1_TERABYTE_SATA/WD10EVCS/partinfo-id-669413.html

Costs a bit more than some other sites are listing, but at least they have them. Mine shipped today.

Jeff


----------



## bmgoodman

I found some in stock at ProVantage's web site: http://www.provantage.com/western-digital-wd10evcs~7WNDO005.htm

I have never ordered from them before, but Froogle's site shows them with 4 1/2 stars from over 1,500 customers.


----------



## shrike4242

bmgoodman said:


> I found some in stock at ProVantage's web site: http://www.provantage.com/western-digital-wd10evcs~7WNDO005.htm
> 
> I have never ordered from them before, but Froogle's site shows them with 4 1/2 stars from over 1,500 customers.


I placed an order with them on Friday morning, after Buy.com was giving me the run-around about shipping dates. They did nothing with the order for three full days, and on the day I called in to cancel the order, it magically ships.

My ProVantage order was listed as being shipped out within an hour of the order being placed, though for some reason, they list the order as having no tracking information from the warehouse that shipped it.  I did their cheapest shipping, ground, which was $6 to my zip code.

So, now I have to do a refuse shipment on the Buy.com order, and go with the Provantage order, even though it was a few more dollars. Buy.com is such a screwball organization when the item(s) being ordered are in very low quantities or OOS.

My Antec MX-1 was ordered from Amazon.com and it's taken a week for it to ship out from my order late Monday (06/02) night. The SIIG cables I ordered shipped very quickly, a 1M from Amazon and a 2M from ANTOnline via Amazon. 1M is on-hand, 2M should be here any day now.


----------



## GregComeLately

richsadams said:


> Best of luck on whatever you decide to do...just let us know when it gets done!


Thanks for the additional explanation, Rich (about soft vs. hard booting, etc.). I'll be sure to report back when I do get around to upgrading, to add to the "data set", or whatever the applicable tracking terminology.

One last thing though.. correct me if I'm wrong, but, there are no reported cases where someone has installed the WD10EACS-00ZJB0 drive into the S3 with success. Of course I realize that not everyone reports to this or other pertinent forums, so there may be successes using this drive somewhere out there, but as far as we know, every report has been negative?


----------



## richsadams

GregComeLately said:


> One last thing though.. correct me if I'm wrong, but, there are no reported cases where someone has installed the WD10EACS-00ZJB0 drive into the S3 with success. Of course I realize that not everyone reports to this or other pertinent forums, so there may be successes using this drive somewhere out there, but as far as we know, every report has been negative?


The data regarding the WD10EACS-00ZJB0 drive comes from this forum and the MFSLive.org forum as well. IIRC there were at least a dozen reports from individuals, probably more. AFAIK every Series3 internal upgrade using that particular drive failed to reboot using the menu restart. The only caveat would be that we were all trying it about seven months ago so again, they may have changed the firmware/architecture to some extent and it's possible that it will work now...hard to say until someone gives it another try.

Keep us posted!


----------



## GregComeLately

ok, thanks. I'll think on it some more. and then again some more.


----------



## eskay

FYI, after being out of stock for a few weeks, the WD WD10EVCS is back in stock at Amazon and PC Connection.


----------



## plumeria

eskay said:


> FYI, after being out of stock for a few weeks, the WD WD10EVCS is back in stock at Amazon and PC Connection.


Thanks - for folks with the Tivo HD, there is no reason I have read anywhere to pay extra for this model over the WD10EACS. The S3 is a different matter, as Rich pointed out to me...

peter
p.s. just installed the WD10EACS and it is extremely quiet out of the box - as others have reported here. No reason to touch the AAM setting for me...


----------



## gotillu

eskay said:


> FYI, after being out of stock for a few weeks, the WD WD10EVCS is back in stock at Amazon and PC Connection.





plumeria said:


> Thanks - for folks with the Tivo HD, there is no reason I have read anywhere to pay extra for this model over the WD10EACS. The S3 is a different matter, as Rich pointed out to me...
> 
> peter
> p.s. just installed the WD10EACS and it is extremely quiet out of the box - as others have reported here. No reason to touch the AAM setting for me...





GregComeLately said:


> ok, thanks. I'll think on it some more. and then again some more.


Looks like the WD10EVCS is back in stock at buy.com for ~$195.

http://www.buy.com/prod/western-dig...erial-ata-300-serial/q/loc/101/206827123.html

Ajay


----------



## greg_burns

gotillu said:


> Looks like the WD10EVCS is back in stock at buy.com for ~$195.
> 
> http://www.buy.com/prod/western-dig...erial-ata-300-serial/q/loc/101/206827123.html
> 
> Ajay


Bought mine yesterday the second I got the email notice. By the time I got to check out it had dropped in price from ~$205 to the $195. 

Been waiting a long time it seems for this thing to be available from buy.com. Going to put it in my original S3.


----------



## richsadams

greg_burns said:


> Bought mine yesterday the second I got the email notice. By the time I got to check out it had dropped in price from ~$205 to the $195.
> 
> Been waiting a long time it seems for this thing to be available from buy.com. Going to put it in my original S3.


Woo hoo! Let us know how it goes! :up:


----------



## golfxtz

Chevy_Cowboy said:


> The new WD10EACS passed the surface scans with flying colors, I thought about adjusting the AAM but I could barely hear it run, even with my ear a couple inches from it. So I just stuffed it in the MX-1 and hooked it up to my new S3, everything went smoothly and its happily recording suggestions as fast as it can lol.
> -------------------------------
> 
> Added the WD Caviar AV GP 1 TB SATA II external HD (WD10EACS) with the Antec MX-1 today. No problems at all and a HAPPY man. (From 32 HD hours to 165 HD hours)


----------



## dwit

golfxtz said:


> Chevy_Cowboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The new WD10EACS passed the surface scans with flying colors, I thought about adjusting the AAM but I could barely hear it run, even with my ear a couple inches from it. So I just stuffed it in the MX-1 and hooked it up to my *new S3*, everything went smoothly and its happily recording suggestions as fast as it can lol.
> -------------------------------
> 
> Added the WD Caviar AV GP 1 TB SATA II external HD (WD10EACS) with the Antec MX-1 today. No problems at all and a HAPPY man. (From *32 HD hours *to 165 HD hours)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This will raise some eyebrows.
> 
> Do you have the *original S3 *Tivo or the *Tivo HD*. From the HD capacities you report, it appears to be the original S3.
> 
> Although come to think of it, the stock Tivo HD has Hi Def capacity of 20 hours. Adding the 145 HD hours of a 1 TB drive will net a total of 165 HD hours. That's more in line with your reported net total.
> 
> The stock original S3 has a capacity of 32 HD hours. Add the 145 hour 1TB drive will net a total of around 177 or so HD hours.
> 
> So now it's starting to look like you actually have a Tivo HD.
> 
> Curious, because to this point, the WD10EACS is reported to not work properly in the original S3 model.
> 
> If you do have the original S3, did you try a soft restart from the Settings menu?
> 
> Anyways, congratulations.
Click to expand...


----------



## 1283

dwit said:


> Curious, because to this point, the WD10EACS is reported to not work properly in the original S3 model.


External is fine, just not internal.

Also, the software version -648 indicates that it's the S3.


----------



## dwit

c3 said:


> External is fine, just not internal.
> 
> Also, the software version -648 indicates that it's the S3.


Oh yeah. Guess I confused *myself *there. 

Nevermind!


----------



## supie

I installed an eSata Western Digital 1TB in November of 07 and it worked fine for over 7 months, then the other day we had a power loss and when everything rebooted the drive heads would not stop seeking (the heads are scanning the disk for side to side and making a loud seeking noise, continuously).

I checked everything and restated many times to no avail. Finally I had to call WD under warranty to get a replacement drive, installed the replacement drive this AM only to find it is doing the same thing.

I also tried a new CB-SA0111-S1 cable, no change

What am I missing, anyone have any suggestions? Help???

My Equipment:
Tivo S3, V9.3a
ESata Cable: CB-SA0111-S1
ESata Enclosure: Antec MX-1
First eSata Drive WD10EACS-00ZJB0
Replacement eSata Drive: WD10EACS-32ZJB0

FYI: I have a second setup in my Bedroom with the exact same equipment, works fine.

Thanks


----------



## eskay

supie said:


> I installed an eSata Western Digital 1TB in November of 07 and it worked fine for over 7 months, then the other day we had a power loss and when everything rebooted the drive heads would not stop seeking (the heads are scanning the disk for side to side and making a loud seeking noise, continuously).
> 
> [snip]


A friend of mine had an external drive making clicking noises and the computer would not recognize it. I thought the drive was a goner, but I took out the drive and installed it internally, and it was okay. A new enclosure solved the problem.

So I would suggest installing the drive internally to isolate the problem, BUT being a drive with a proprietary format, I don't know if installing it in your PC can hurt the drive. Maybe booting up with MFSLive would be okay.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge can recommend a method, but it's worth a shot.


----------



## greg_burns

supie said:


> I installed an eSata Western Digital 1TB in November of 07 and it worked fine for over 7 months, then the other day we had a power loss and when everything rebooted the drive heads would not stop seeking (the heads are scanning the disk for side to side and making a loud seeking noise, continuously).


Boot to the Hitachi Feature Tool disc and change acoustic setting to 128 on the drive. You will have to attach the drive to your PC to do that.

http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm

See if that helps.


----------



## richsadams

supie said:


> I installed an eSata Western Digital 1TB in November of 07 and it worked fine for over 7 months, then the other day we had a power loss and when everything rebooted the drive heads would not stop seeking (the heads are scanning the disk for side to side and making a loud seeking noise, continuously).
> 
> I checked everything and restated many times to no avail. Finally I had to call WD under warranty to get a replacement drive, installed the replacement drive this AM only to find it is doing the same thing.
> 
> I also tried a new CB-SA0111-S1 cable, no change
> 
> What am I missing, anyone have any suggestions? Help???
> 
> My Equipment:
> Tivo S3, V9.3a
> ESata Cable: CB-SA0111-S1
> ESata Enclosure: Antec MX-1
> First eSata Drive WD10EACS-00ZJB0
> Replacement eSata Drive: WD10EACS-32ZJB0
> 
> FYI: I have a second setup in my Bedroom with the exact same equipment, works fine.
> 
> Thanks


I agree with eskay, it sounds like your enclosure may be the issue rather than the drive itself. The enclosure's bridge may have been damaged during the power failure event. Antec is pretty good about replacements.

Does your TiVo start up and run okay when the drive is connected? If so, does it show the correct amount of recording hours in the System Info?

Also, can you confirm your post with regard to the drives? You listed your original drive as a WD10EACS-00ZJB0 and the replacement drive as a WD10EACS-32ZJB0. Could that be backwards? The reason I ask is that the WD10EACS-32ZJB0 hasn't been found in the wild since late last year. That drive is actually the one that works as an upgrade/replacement drive in the Series3's (same one I have inside ours). The WD10EACS-00ZJB0 or "OEM" drive is the one that's been available for a while now and does NOT work as an internal upgrade in Series3's (but has been fine as an expansion drive). If WD is shipping the "32ZJB0" series of drives again it would be somewhat newsworthy.

If indeed it is a WD10EACS-32ZJB0, you could do as eskay suggests and install it internally using WinMFS. If it is the WD10EACS-00ZJB0 that won't work though. If you want to stick with an external drive, trying another enclosure would be my suggestion.

My recommendation would be to put both your TiVo and your expansion drive on a UPS like this one if you haven't already. :up:


----------



## jlib

greg_burns said:


> Boot to the Hitachi Feature Tool disc and change acoustic setting to 128 on the drive...See if that helps.


Sort of like putting a morphine drip on the terminal cancer patient...


----------



## greg_burns

jlib said:


> Sort of like putting a morphine drip on the terminal cancer patient...


I think you're right.


----------



## supie

richsadams said:


> I agree with eskay, it sounds like your enclosure may be the issue rather than the drive itself. The enclosure's bridge may have been damaged during the power failure event. Antec is pretty good about replacements.
> 
> Does your TiVo start up and run okay when the drive is connected? If so, does it show the correct amount of recording hours in the System Info?
> 
> Also, can you confirm your post with regard to the drives? You listed your original drive as a WD10EACS-00ZJB0 and the replacement drive as a WD10EACS-32ZJB0. Could that be backwards? If WD is shipping the "32ZJB0" series of drives again it would be somewhat newsworthy.
> 
> My recommendation would be to put both your TiVo and your expansion drive on a UPS like this one if you haven't already. :up:


Wow eskay and Rich are probably on the money, much appreciated.

I explained the problem to Antec and immediately issued a RMA, so I guest they seen this before.

Yes the Tivo does run with the problem drive acting up and even shows the correct SD and HD hours.

My post was correct, I was surprised also:
First eSata Drive WD10EACS-00ZJB0
Replacement eSata Drive: WD10EACS-32ZJB0

Made me wonder, if they rebuild drives and reissue them?

UPS: I do have the UPS you recommend.

Thanks again, really a big help.


----------



## richsadams

supie said:


> My post was correct, I was surprised also:
> First eSata Drive WD10EACS-00ZJB0
> Replacement eSata Drive: WD10EACS-32ZJB0
> 
> Made me wonder, if they rebuild drives and reissue them? Thanks again, really a big help.


Glad to help. Very interesting about the WD10EACS-32ZJB0 drive you received. I'm half tempted to go out and buy one off the shelf just to see if they're reverted back to selling the original drive. Maybe they had soooo many complaints from TiVo Series3 owners that they changed their business model. Yeah...I bet that's it!


----------



## jlib

supie said:


> ...My post was correct, I was surprised also:
> First eSata Drive WD10EACS-00ZJB0
> Replacement eSata Drive: WD10EACS-32ZJB0
> 
> Made me wonder, if they rebuild drives and reissue them?...


Yes, warranty replacement are always refurbished drives unless there doesn't happen to be any in their inventory. WD does not discern a difference with the -00 and -32 drives (but obviously there is something different).


----------



## Ender

I apologize if this is a question that has been answered in this thread. I read the first post a few times, but might have missed it (hope not).

I have a TivoHD unmodified. Sitting on my desk is a AV-GP 1000Gb WD10EVCS HD and an MX-1 enclosure. I haven't gotten around to installing it/them.

Which brings me to three questions - each in two parts. 

1. Should I just put the WD10EVCS internally? If so, if I ever wanted could I add the Western Digital My DVR Expander? - I can return the MX-1 if need be.

2. If I keep the original HD in the Tivo and put the WD10EVCS in the MX-1, the FAQ mentions "but once removed, only "TiVo Verified" drives -- like the Western Digital My Expander -- can be added back to the TiVoHD using the "plug and play" eSATA expansion." that if I ever had to remove the eSata drive (say to move the unit) I couldn't use it again without redoing it all? Is that correct? 

3. Any longevity issues with the WD10EVCS? 

Thank you in advance.


----------



## richsadams

Ender said:


> I apologize if this is a question that has been answered in this thread. I read the first post a few times, but might have missed it (hope not).
> 
> I have a TivoHD unmodified. Sitting on my desk is a AV-GP 1000Gb WD10EVCS HD and an MX-1 enclosure. I haven't gotten around to installing it/them.
> 
> Which brings me to three questions - each in two parts.
> 
> 1. Should I just put the WD10EVCS internally? If so, if I ever wanted could I add the Western Digital My DVR Expander? - I can return the MX-1 if need be.


Reasonable questions all. Yes, installing it internally is the best way to go IMO. If you are going to add an expansion drive other than the approved Western Digital My DVR Expander you will have to pull the internal drive anyway. The meager size of the original hard drive just isn't worth having (again, IMHO). The best thing to do is to use WinMFS to upgrade the internal hard drive and keep the original hard drive on the shelf as a backup.

TiVo HD's (or Series3's) no longer accept eSATA drives via plug and pray once the internal hard drive has been upgraded; you would need to follow a few quick steps in the WinMFS program to marry the two drives (WD's My DVR Expander or any other).



Ender said:


> 2. If I keep the original HD in the Tivo and put the WD10EVCS in the MX-1, the FAQ mentions "but once removed, only "TiVo Verified" drives -- like the Western Digital My Expander -- can be added back to the TiVoHD using the "plug and play" eSATA expansion." that if I ever had to remove the eSata drive (say to move the unit) I couldn't use it again without redoing it all? Is that correct?


I think I understand what you're asking, but ask again if my answer doesn't make sense. If you add your 1TB/MX-1 drive combo to your TiVo HD you will need to "marry" the drives, again using WinMFS. If you disconnect your expansion drive later and for some reason you don't want to reconnect it, all of the recordings made since the expansion drive was connected will be lost. If you're wanting to know if you can disconnect the drive, move your equipment and then reconnect it, that's not a problem as long as you follow these steps: 
Shutting down and moving your equipment:

1. Unplug TiVo
2. Turn off and unplug the eSATA drive
3. Unplug the eSATA cable from TiVo and the eSATA drive (along with other cables, etc.)

Setting TiVo back up

1. Plug in the eSATA cable to the eSATA drive and TiVo
2. Plug in and turn on the eSATA drive
3. Plug in TiVo​
Basically you just don't want to unplug or turn off the eSATA drive while TiVo is plugged in as it will ask to divorce the drive. As long as TiVo is unplugged you can pretty much do whatever you need to do with the eSATA drive. Just make sure the drive is on and plugged into TiVo before plugging TiVo back in.



Ender said:


> 3. Any longevity issues with the WD10EVCS?


That particular drive has only been on the market for a few months. AFAIK no one here or on a couple of other forums I watch have had any problems with them. We have a "cousin", a 1TB WD10EACS in our Series3 and it's been flawless for about eight months now.



Ender said:


> Thank you in advance.


No problem. The bottom line with TiVo HD's is that if you want to increase your recording capacity it's easier (smarter?) to upgrade the internal hard drive and be done with it. That's one less failure point for the system. If 1TB isn't enough sometime down the road, you can add an eSATA drive as well by using WinMFS to marry the two.

Good luck! Let us know what you decide to do and how it goes.


----------



## Ender

Thanks Rich!

That answers most of my questions.

Only one more 

1. If installed internally, will the mod keep Tivo from updating the box? (I think not, but just want to see your thoughts)

Thanks for the help. I'll probably do the internal install in the next few days.

I'll let you know how it goes.


----------



## greg_burns

Ender said:


> Thanks Rich!
> 
> That answers most of my questions.
> 
> Only one more
> 
> 1. If installed internally, will the mod keep Tivo from updating the box? (I think not, but just want to see your thoughts)
> 
> Thanks for the help. I'll probably do the internal install in the next few days.
> 
> I'll let you know how it goes.


No it will not. It is possible for Tivo to know you have a non factory drive in your box though. So if you deal with customer support they could use that against you if you have a problem of some sort. But that's just being paranoid.


----------



## richsadams

Ender said:


> Thanks Rich!
> 
> That answers most of my questions.
> 
> Only one more
> 
> 1. If installed internally, will the mod keep Tivo from updating the box? (I think not, but just want to see your thoughts)
> 
> Thanks for the help. I'll probably do the internal install in the next few days.
> 
> I'll let you know how it goes.


Greg is correct...as usual.  TiVo will continue to operate normally in most all respects with an upgraded hard drive.

If you do run into any issues you can always pop the original hard drive back in before calling the support folks. But Greg is right about them knowing as TiVo sends log information to the mother ship on a periodic basis. I haven't heard of anyone having any trouble getting help even if they have an upgraded drive though.

Good luck!


----------



## StibDen

See that the My DVR Expander is now available at other retailers. Zipzoomfly has it for $164.99 (puls $7.40 shipping).

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10008409&prodlist=celebros

Any reason this can't be bought here or will Tivo only continue support if it's purchased through them?


----------



## richsadams

TiVo has been supporting My DVR Expanders sold by Best Buy from day one, so there shouldn't be any reason for them to do otherwise with ZZF or any other retailer...no different than buying a TiVo from TiVo or any online or B&M store.


----------



## greg_burns

StibDen said:


> See that the My DVR Expander is now available at other retailers. Zipzoomfly has it for $164.99 (puls $7.40 shipping).


I can understand the reluctance to install internally, but *double *the space for not much more...

WD10EVCS $202 (internal for S3 or TivoHD)

WD10EACS $191 (internal for TivoHD only)

+ free shipping :up:

Edit: ok, maybe not double since you loose the 160GB or 250GB from the original drive...


----------



## StibDen

greg_burns said:


> I can understand the reluctance to install internally, but *double *the space for not much more...


The internal drive update may make better sense. But a question I have is support by Tivo with the intenal upgrade. I've been having the playback freeze problem that is reported on another thread. I understand Tivo is supposed to come out with a firmware update to fix this, but if this problem doesn't get fixed or other problems crop up, am I stuck because I did the internal upgrade?

I see instructions for adding an external drive on the first page of this thread. Does it adequately cover doing an internal upgrade, or is there another thread to explain the process for doing the upgrade?

Thanks for your patience with a Tivo novice.


----------



## richsadams

Welcome to the forum! I'm an internal upgrade proponent as well. One less failure point and it's much more economical with respect to the cost per MB/GB. Many others have reported on other threads that replacing their hard drive has resolved a number of problems.

With regard to what TiVo will or won't support...if you keep your original drive on the shelf you can always pop it back in if you need to return the whole unit to TiVo.

A software upgrade (TiVo firmware doesn't get upgraded) may or may not resolve some of the issues you're seeing. It really depends on what it is.

All the information you need for upgrading your internal hard drive is on the first post of this thread (Section III, #30) as well as at MFSLive.org which offers the free and very easy to use WinMFS program. If you're comfortable with connecting a hard drive to your computer, you can do it.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes!


----------



## thomaslue

StibDen said:


> See that the My DVR Expander is now available at other retailers. Zipzoomfly has it for $164.99 (puls $7.40 shipping).
> 
> http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10008409&prodlist=celebros


Why don't they release a 1 TB version of this thing?


----------



## greg_burns

I just noticed my new WD10EVCS has acoustic management (value 128) enabled by default.


----------



## Ender

I looked quickly and there doesn't seem to be a way to change tha AAM value via usb, is that correct?

I only have laptops, so an internal SATA cable connection isn't really in the equation.

Any ideas?

> *greg_burns* how did you see that your WD10EVCS was set at 128? Just curious if you used the Hitachi tool to do this or if there was another way to just see the value.

I hope my drive is 128 by default or another simple solution.


----------



## greg_burns

Yeah, I used the Hitachi Feature Tool bootable disc with it hooked up directly via a sata cable.

I think you are right about the it not being able to see it via USB.

The only other thing I can think of is using a Knoppix Live Linux disc and running hdparm command.

But even then I am not sure you could change/view it via USB sitting the Antec MX-1.


----------



## Ender

greg_burns said:


> Yeah, I used the Hitachi Feature Tool bootable disc with it hooked up directly via a sata cable.
> 
> I think you are right about the it not being able to see it via USB.
> 
> The only other thing I can think of is using a Knoppix Live Linux disc and running hdparm command.
> 
> But even then I am not sure you could change/view it via USB sitting the Antec MX-1.


Thanks. I'll probably just take it to a friends house this weekend and check it out.

The one time I wished I still had a desktop.


----------



## Ender

So I tried everything and I thought I was on the path of finishing the internal install.

Though now I'm stuck at the "Almost there. Just a few minutes more. . . " screen for 2-3 hours. Is that normal or should I pull the plug and try the power again?


----------



## richsadams

Ender said:


> So I tried everything and I thought I was on the path of finishing the internal install.
> 
> Though now I'm stuck at the "Almost there. Just a few minutes more. . . " screen for 2-3 hours. Is that normal or should I pull the plug and try the power again?


Not normal. Try rebooting it (unplug TiVo, wait about 10 seconds and plug it back in). If it still sticks at that point it means that the mother board cannot communicate with the hard drive. Check all of the connections and listen for the drive spinning up. If the drive doesn't spin up there's likely a problem with the drive. Put the old drive back in and make sure it still starts up okay. If it does you might want to connect your drive to your PC and be sure it's okay by running WD's LIfeguard Diagnostic Tool. If it passes try redoing everything with WinMFS and make sure that you're following every step correctly.


----------



## Ender

richsadams said:


> Not normal. Try rebooting it (unplug TiVo, wait about 10 seconds and plug it back in). If it still sticks at that point it means that the mother board cannot communicate with the hard drive. Check all of the connections and listen for the drive spinning up. If the drive doesn't spin up there's likely a problem with the drive. Put the old drive back in and make sure it still starts up okay. If it does you might want to connect your drive to your PC and be sure it's okay by running WD's LIfeguard Diagnostic Tool. If it passes try redoing everything with WinMFS and make sure that you're following every step correctly.


Thanks Rich. I wasn't sure. It just seemed odd.

I had to basically 'format/delete' the new HD and just restore the backup to it again. Not a big deal. Now it works great! 144HD hours or 1367 SD hours. . .

I must have messed something up when I tried to do the AAM via the USB to SATA cable.

Which brings me to another question. If I don't lower the AAM to 128 will the higher setting wear on the drive quicker?

What I took from the 1st post in the thread is that some HD come with AAM disabled because they want to up the performance for a desktop. Does that 'up the performance' setting make the HD drive to 'hard' for a DVR and eventually will lead to a breakdown before it's real time? Or does it just effect the sound level?

Anyway, thank you and everyone else for the great help!


----------



## greg_burns

Ender said:


> Though now I'm stuck at the "Almost there. Just a few minutes more. . . " screen for 2-3 hours.





richsadams said:


> Not normal. Try rebooting it (unplug TiVo, wait about 10 seconds and plug it back in). If it still sticks at that point it means that the mother board cannot communicate with the hard drive.


I thought the "Welcome! Powering up..." was from the motherboard and "Almost there. Just a few minutes more..." was read from disk. 

Glad to see its working now.


----------



## richsadams

greg_burns said:


> I thought the "Welcome! Powering up..." was from the motherboard and "Almost there. Just a few minutes more..." was read from disk.
> 
> Glad to see its working now.


Aurgh!  You're absolutely right. My bad. I've got to stop responding to these things past my bed time.


----------



## richsadams

Ender said:


> Which brings me to another question. If I don't lower the AAM to 128 will the higher setting wear on the drive quicker?


Glad to hear all is well! :up:

AFAIK the AAM setting shouldn't have any effect on your hard drive's longevity. Lowering it reduces the seek time slightly which lowers the noise level to some extent. By extension TiVo's requirements/demands on a hard drive are much less than those of a PC, server, etc. so changing the AAM shouldn't have any impact on TiVo's performance either. Although I lowered the AAM to 128 on the WD10EVCS I have it was very quiet to begin with. Had I not done so I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have made any difference.

Enjoy!


----------



## Ender

richsadams said:


> Glad to hear all is well! :up:
> 
> AFAIK the AAM setting shouldn't have any effect on your hard drive's longevity. Lowering it reduces the seek time slightly which lowers the noise level to some extent. By extension TiVo's requirements/demands on a hard drive are much less than those of a PC, server, etc. so changing the AAM shouldn't have any impact on TiVo's performance either. Although I lowered the AAM to 128 on the WD10EVCS I have it was very quiet to begin with. Had I not done so I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have made any difference.
> 
> Enjoy!


Okay thanks. I guess it's a minor change. . .I assume I can change the AAM anytime without effecting the drive.

Thanks for the excellent help.


----------



## richsadams

Ender said:


> Okay thanks. I guess it's a minor change. . .I assume I can change the AAM anytime without effecting the drive.
> 
> Thanks for the excellent help.


Glad to help, and yes, you can change the AAM anytime.


----------



## gatzke

thomaslue said:


> Why don't they release a 1 TB version of this thing?


Exactly! This has been out for a while. Even when it came out, it seemed small. I am holding out for at least a 1 TB expansion.

Or better yet, Tivo should bless an expandable NAS device with a RAID option. I guess you can script your HTPC move files off the Tivo, but it is not as elegant as plug and go.

But I guess the market for people putting an extra $1000 into a Tivo is pretty small...


----------



## greg_burns

Got my WD10EVCS installed this morning internally. I could not figure out how to do it and preserve my external drive though using WinMFS, so I just decided to divorce it first. 

Tried using MFSLive boot cd 1.3 after scratching my head with WinMFS, but it refused to recognize any of my sata drives on my pc. Kept saying sda and sdb didn't exists. Couldn't figure out how to get a listing of what the drives were mounted as. I know with linux I should have been able to do a cat /proc/partitions but that wasn't working with this boot disc. 

Interesting side note; when I divorced my drive the only shows left were some TivoCasts and one single show recorded on the Jun 10th. Very odd. Some much for the theory that everything would be gone since adding the drive.


----------



## richsadams

greg_burns said:


> Got my WD10EVCS installed this morning internally. I could not figure out how to do it and preserve my external drive though using WinMFS, so I just decided to divorce it first.
> 
> Interesting side note; when I divorced my drive the only shows left were some TivoCasts and one single show recorded on the Jun 10th. Very odd. Some much for the theory that everything would be gone since adding the drive.


Congrats...I think.  Did you end up using WinMFS and is it working?

I divorced my eSATA drive a couple of times early on and found that a couple of SD programs (but no HD recordings) were still there afterward, so it does indeed seem to leave some remnants now and then. I certainly wouldn't _bank _on any being there though.

Nice work! :up:


----------



## richsadams

thomaslue said:


> Why don't they release a 1 TB version of this thing?


My guess is that it's due to projected demand more than anything. Ramping up a product for release in the U.S. is not for the squeamish. There business model would likely emulate the 500GB version which means convincing/getting WD to begin production, packaging, distribution and marketing...all of which commands some sizable costs.

Plus TiVo and WD now have some historical data regarding the success of the 500GB model. Since they have moved to a wider distribution (beyond TiVo and Best Buy) I'd guess that they consider it viable. Then they'd have to weigh how many of those were sold against how many additional 1TB drives they would sell.

It's all about making money. That said, both companies have responded to various queries over the past few months and both have said that there may be a 1TB version in "late 2008". A holiday offering like the 500GB model? Guess we'll have to wait and see.


----------



## greg_burns

richsadams said:


> Congrats...I think.  Did you end up using WinMFS and is it working?


Yes, I used WinMFS and it is working. :up:

I just thought it might have been possible to replace the internal 250GB with an internal 1TB and keep the attached storage (500MB). Maybe it is, but I couldn't quite figure it out using WinMFS and was having trouble even using MFSLive with my PC.

I was just thinking... I assumed I could just plug back in my eSata drive after the fact, but is that going be a problem now that I replaced the internal drive? Should have I've done something while I had it all apart and connected to my PC?


----------



## Chew

As a point of reference, how does the typical S3 HD that TiVo installs rate for noise level?

I've bought a few HDs for my previous TiVos and they were never quiet enough compared to the original. Even after doing the suggested adjustments.


----------



## lrhorer

greg_burns said:


> Yes, I used WinMFS and it is working. :up:
> 
> I just thought it might have been possible to replace the internal 250GB with an internal 1TB and keep the attached storage (500MB). Maybe it is, but I couldn't quite figure it out using WinMFS and was having trouble even using MFSLive with my PC.
> 
> I was just thinking... I assumed I could just plug back in my eSata drive after the fact, but is that going be a problem now that I replaced the internal drive? Should have I've done something while I had it all apart and connected to my PC?


Yes and yes. The automated drive marriage will only work with a stock TiVo drive. You'll need Win-MFS to marry two large drives.


----------



## greg_burns

lrhorer said:


> Yes and yes.


Was one of those Yeses to the question of whether it was possible to keep the external drive and still upgrade the internal w/o loosing recordings?


----------



## cb8560

I just got a Tivo HD with a life time membership and started using it. I have multiple programs Standard Definition program on it and wanted to expand the hard drive before I starting using it for HD programs since it will fill up quickly. I bought a western digital 1TB E-Sata hard drive but then found out the only way I can install it with Tivo HD that is with a hack on this fourum.

I had a few questions concerning trying this hack

Will it erase the programs that are currently on my drive? 

If so is thier anyway to back up all the programs on your computer with tivo HD? 

Also will it void warranty? 

When will Tivo allow you to hook up a E-Sata hard drive that is not the 500 GB my dvr expander?

Casey


----------



## Ender

cb8560 said:


> I just got a Tivo HD with a life time membership and started using it. I have multiple programs Standard Definition program on it and wanted to expand the hard drive before I starting using it for HD programs since it will fill up quickly. I bought a western digital 1TB E-Sata hard drive but then found out the only way I can install it with Tivo HD that is with a hack on this fourum.
> 
> I had a few questions concerning trying this hack
> 
> Will it erase the programs that are currently on my drive?
> 
> If so is thier anyway to back up all the programs on your computer with tivo HD?
> 
> Also will it void warranty?
> 
> When will Tivo allow you to hook up a E-Sata hard drive that is not the 500 GB my dvr expander?
> 
> Casey


I was told and probably concur that instead of using an external drive, just upgrade the internal drive of the TivoHD to the 1TB drive.

Keep the existing drive as a backup or something.

If you decide to do the internal upgrade - from the 1st post in the thread:



> TiVo Internal Upgrade Instructions: Preserves Settings and Recordings
> 
> These instructions are for use under Windows XP SP2 and Windows Vista only. Do not use these instructions with previous versions of Windows.
> 
> 1. Remove the outer case and existing drive using a torx screwdriver in the T10 size. If you don't have one of appropriate length, you can purchase the Star Driver T10 Ampro (9014713) from Advance Auto Parts for about $4.
> 
> 2. Download WinMFS here.
> 
> 3. Shut down Windows, turn off your computer, and connect the TiVo's built-in SATA drive and your new replacement SATA drive. You can open your computer and connect both with SATA cables, or you can connect them externally using a pair of SATA->USB adapters. Both drives should be connected to your PC at the same time.
> 
> If your computer does not already have SATA ports, consider using a PCI SATA controller board. One user reports a 25x increase in data transfer speed by using SATA instead of USB6 hours to transfer 750GB of data vs. 6 days.
> 
> 4. Turn on your computer and launch WinMFS. If using Windows Vista, you'll want to launch WinMFS by right-clicking on WinMFS.exe and selecting "Run as Administrator."
> 
> 5. In WinMFS, click 'Select Drive' and select the two drives you attached. Set 'Drive A' to the original drive. Do not select 'Drive B.
> 
> 6. In WinMFS, select the 'Backup' option to create a backup. Save the file to your hard drive for backup purposes.
> 
> You don't use this now. It's a backup for future use, should anything ever go wrong.
> 
> 7. In WinMFS, designate the original drive, selected as 'A,' as the Source Drive A and the new drive as Destination Drive A."
> 
> 8. Select Tools -> Mfscopy to copy the full contents of the old drive -- including all recordings -- to the new.
> 
> When using USB->SATA adapters, this copy process can take as long as several days depending on the number of recordings on your original drive. WinMFS does not refresh its GUI during this process, so it may appear to hang, but it is still working as intended. If you want to monitor the progress of WinMFS' copying, use 'Ctrl+Alt-Del' to invoke the Windows Task Manager, then navigate to 'Bytes In' and 'Bytes Out.'
> 
> 9. After the copy is complete, select Tools-> Mfsadd.
> 
> 10. Select Tools-> MfsSuperSize -> On.
> 
> 11. Shutdown your computer and disconnect the drives.
> 
> 12. Reinstall the internal drive and replace the TiVo's outer case.
> 
> 13. You're done. Store your original TiVo drive in a safe place.


Not sure about losing your programs on the internal drive, if you just try to add an external one.

As for the warranty? Probably, but who knows what Tivo will do. They know about the 'hacking' culture and don't try to do anything to stop it.

But I've had a Series 1, Series 2, and now the TivoHD and I've never had to call tech support once.


----------



## greg_burns

Ender said:


> I was told and probably concur that instead of using an external drive, just upgrade the internal drive of the TivoHD to the 1TB drive.


You won't loose your recordings. You can copy your settings and shows to a new drive with WinMFS. Also adding an external drive after the fact won't loose recordings either (as I am about to find out).


----------



## greg_burns

Chew said:


> As a point of reference, how does the typical S3 HD that TiVo installs rate for noise level?
> 
> I've bought a few HDs for my previous TiVos and they were never quiet enough compared to the original. Even after doing the suggested adjustments.


My original 250GB drive in my S3 was extremely quiet. My new WD10EVCS is just as quiet, IMO.


----------



## richsadams

Chew said:


> As a point of reference, how does the typical S3 HD that TiVo installs rate for noise level?
> I've bought a few HDs for my previous TiVos and they were never quiet enough compared to the original. Even after doing the suggested adjustments.


 It's a fairly quiet drive compared to a number of others:

Features/Specifications:

* Western Digital WD2500BS 250 GB Serial ATA Hard Drive

* General Features:
* 250 GB storage capacity
* SATA/150
* 7200 RPM spindle speed
* 2 MB buffer
* 3.5-inch form factor

* Power Specifications:
* +5V, 0.92A
* +12V, 0.90A

* Acoustics:
Idle Mode	25 dBA (average)
Seek Mode 3 26 dBA (average)​
The 1TB WD GP line of drives has very similar acoustic specs which is quite good considering the difference in size. However a large part of how that's accomplished is by using a variable RPM feature (5400 to 7200).


----------



## richsadams

cb8560 said:


> I just got a Tivo HD with a life time membership and started using it. I have multiple programs Standard Definition program on it and wanted to expand the hard drive before I starting using it for HD programs since it will fill up quickly. I bought a western digital 1TB E-Sata hard drive but then found out the only way I can install it with Tivo HD that is with a hack on this fourum.
> 
> I had a few questions concerning trying this hack
> 
> Will it erase the programs that are currently on my drive?
> 
> If so is thier anyway to back up all the programs on your computer with tivo HD?
> 
> Also will it void warranty?
> 
> When will Tivo allow you to hook up a E-Sata hard drive that is not the 500 GB my dvr expander?
> 
> Casey


You can use WinMFS to copy all of your recordings and settings to your new drive. Just be sure to follow the directions carefully. You could also use TiVo Desktop to transfer your recordings to your PC, but again, you don't have to.

The one-year warranty states (and I'm paraphrasing their legal speak) that if you alter the unit that it will void your warranty. That said, if you have problems you can always reinstall your original hard drive and based on a number of years of posts on this forum, it doesn't appear that TiVo will challenge you if you don't mention it. Of course if you damage the unit while working on it (highly unlikely) that would be that.

With regard to when TiVo (or anyone) will offer a larger, approved external hard drive for the TiVo HD, your guess is as good as anyone else's. Both TiVo and Western Digital have responded to inquiries by saying that a larger expansion drive might be available in "late 2008". However you can use WinMFS to add a number of different, larger eSATA drives now. As mentioned previously, since you have to pull the original hard drive to do so, you might as well replace the internal drive first (put the original drive on the shelf as a backup) and if you need even more space, add a new eSATA drive later.


----------



## Chew

richsadams said:


> It's a fairly quiet drive compared to a number of others:


I was most curious how the original drives rate on the 1-10 scale used on the first page (#27).

I really don't need a 1TB drive, but those are the only "10"s. Which means I have to get an "8", but only if that's the same or better than the original WD drives.

Keeping the noise level down is more important than the upgrade.


----------



## richsadams

Chew said:


> I was most curious how the original drives rate on the 1-10 scale used on the first page (#27).
> 
> I really don't need a 1TB drive, but those are the only "10"s. Which means I have to get an "8", but only if that's the same or better than the original WD drives.
> 
> Keeping the noise level down is more important than the upgrade.


The original hard drive specs indicate that it would be about an 8 or 9 on that scale, again, quite good.


----------



## Chew

Thanks. :up:


----------



## colin1497

Hey, I'm finally getting around to upgrading my internal drive and was looking for a list of 1TB drives. Is the list on the first page the most up to date thing around? Newegg has WD10EACS but doesn't give the extension, just says "OEM." Will this be one of the "bad" versions?


----------



## cb8560

So let me get this strait winMFS will let me keep all my current recordings?

How big of an internal drive can I expand my tivo with.


----------



## drhankz

cb8560 said:


> So let me get this strait winMFS will let me keep all my current recordings?
> 
> How big of an internal drive can I expand my tivo with.


All the answers to your questions can be found by reading the first page of this thread.


----------



## dwit

colin1497 said:


> Hey, I'm finally getting around to upgrading my internal drive and was looking for a list of 1TB drives. Is the list on the first page the most up to date thing around? Newegg has WD10EACS but doesn't give the extension, just says "OEM." Will this be one of the "bad" versions?


Bad for internal use with the original S3.

Good for all other uses: good for internal use with Tivo HD. Good for external use with original S3 and Tivo HD.


----------



## richsadams

cb8560 said:


> So let me get this strait winMFS will let me keep all my current recordings?
> 
> How big of an internal drive can I expand my tivo with.


As drhankz says, everything you need to know is in the first post of this thread and on MFSLive.

You can use up to a 1TB drive.


----------



## ilh

richsadams said:


> The 1TB WD GP line of drives has very similar acoustic specs which is quite good considering the difference in size. However a large part of how that's accomplished is by using a variable RPM feature (5400 to 7200).


You've been confused by their marketing, and you're far from alone! There are a number of conclusive tests that show the current GP drives are all fixed at 5400rpm (e.g., check out silentpcreview.com's review). This has been confirmed by examining the acoustic resonance at 90Hz, which corresponds to 5400rpm.


----------



## greg_burns

How are you suppose to set the jumper for this Spread Spectrum clocking stuff anyways?

The jumper (across 1&2) for disabled and enabled is both the same. 

http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=2513&p_created=#jumper


----------



## richsadams

greg_burns said:


> How are you suppose to set the jumper for this Spread Spectrum clocking stuff anyways?
> 
> The jumper (across 1&2) for disabled and enabled is both the same.
> 
> http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=2513&p_created=#jumper


I remember looking at those last year when folks were trying various jumper settings when the WD10EACS didn't recover from a soft reboot, but nothing they tried worked and in fact made things worse.

For TiVo purposes my understanding is that there s/b no jumper at all (that's how are is configured...or not configured I guess). Now if you're talking a PC application, the only jumper settings I know are for master/slave.


----------



## richsadams

ilh said:


> You've been confused by their marketing, and you're far from alone! There are a number of conclusive tests that show the current GP drives are all fixed at 5400rpm (e.g., check out silentpcreview.com's review). This has been confirmed by examining the acoustic resonance at 90Hz, which corresponds to 5400rpm.


For TiVo 5400 RPM is fine. But you're saying (or they're saying) that the WD10EACS will never achieve 7200 RPM under any circumstance? If that's the case, it's not misleading marketing, it's totally false advertising.


----------



## jlib

Yes, it is obfuscation carried to the nth degree! When you carefully read the marketing tripe you discover that they don't actually say the speed is variable on any particular model but rather the designed speed of the models in the whole Green line varies according to a balance of performance and energy use that only WD really knows. Different models can have different speeds and they want to deemphasize rpm as a specification to be pondered and compared by the end user. Another study based on bit density and throughput calculations showed that the WD10EACS was slighty faster than 5400rpm but in any case it is static and is not even close to 7200rpm.


----------



## richsadams

That's really interesting. I took it to mean that drive performance is based on data throughput...up to 7200 RPM when required and lower when appropriate. I know it will be fine in my TiVo, but I've considered it for one of my PC's on a couple of occassions; wanting to do the right/green thing. I'll just stick with Seagate drives as I have in the past I guess. Thanks for the heads up. :up:


----------



## 1283

greg_burns said:


> How are you suppose to set the jumper for this Spread Spectrum clocking stuff anyways?


SSC reduces RFI by changing the data rate slightly on the SATA wires. There is really no functional/performance difference.


----------



## 1283

5400 vs 7200 RPM: Unless you have disk intensive applications, my opinion is that most users do not need "high performance" drives. For me, lower power, temperature, and noise are much more important than performance.


----------



## richsadams

c3 said:


> 5400 vs 7200 RPM: Unless you have disk intensive applications, my opinion is that most users do not need "high performance" drives. For me, lower power, temperature, and noise are much more important than performance.


Good points. I do a lot of video editing however and need to be sure everything can keep up. That's mostly a processing/memory issue but I'd hate for the drive to be a bottleneck.


----------



## phototrek

Question about INTERNAL upgrades. I have read the first three, and the last page (sorry, didn't read the remaining 44 ). I think I know the answer but wanted to make sure first.

I have a Series3, from the day of its inception (8.0 or such). It was right away upgraded with a 750GiB DB35 drive. Now, I would like to 
- FIRST upgrade the internal drive to 1TiB
- LATER (soon ) add a 2nd 2TiB external drive
both times preserving the original recordings

If I read / interpret III.11 and III.30 correctly, this should be possible. I just want to make sure, because it used to be (back then) that an upgraded drive was not further upgradeable. I haven't been following the upgrade technology in a while since 750GiB was sufficient, until now.

Or am I stuck with the 750GiB internally and can only add 1TiB externally?

Any clarification, or confirmation, of this would be much appreciated.

BTW, why is it that the "high end" S3 supports only up to 2TB (2.2TiB) while the THD supports some exabytes? Seems backwards, but that's just me. Nothing that a software update shouldn't fix, no? 

Thanks!
Stan


----------



## 1283

There is no problem re-upgrading with WinMFS. I upgraded from 250GB to 500GB, and then to 1TB, with all recordings intact.


----------



## richsadams

Best Buy has the Western Digital WD10EACS 1TB hard drive on sale for $169.99. That's a good price for anyone wanting to upgrade the internal hard drive in their TiVo HD or add an eSATA drive to their Series3.

NOTE: this drive is almost guaranteed to be a WD10EACS-*00ZJB0*. This drive CANNOT be used to upgrade the internal hard drive in a Series3 due to soft reboot failure.

Please refer to the first post on this thread for more info on adding an eSATA drive or upgrading the internal hard drive of the TiVo HD or Series3.


----------



## jlib

phototrek said:


> ...I have a Series3, from the day of its inception (8.0 or such). It was right away upgraded with a 750GiB DB35 drive. Now, I would like to
> - FIRST upgrade the internal drive to 1TiB
> - LATER (soon ) add a 2nd 2TiB external drive
> both times preserving the original recordings
> 
> ...BTW, why is it that the "high end" S3 supports only up to 2TB (2.2TiB) while the THD supports some exabytes? Seems backwards, but that's just me. Nothing that a software update shouldn't fix, no?


As C3 said, there is no problem doing what you envision as long as you do it in that order. Since you will have to remove the internal drive for each of your upgrade steps why not just wait till you can consolidate both into one step (unless soon isn't very soon). 

Any difference in ultimate capacity would be related to the difference between a 64-bit (THD) and 32-bit (S3) MFS file system. 2TB would be an awsome system. I discovered that I end up never watching again all the great stuff I archive but being "a do it because one can" sort of person, I support your plan.


----------



## BWilliamsDC

Hey gurus,

I felt very proud of myself in following the instructions in the FAQ to add a non-approved eSATA external drive to my Tivo HD, but it now randomly reboots on itself wrecking my recordings and viewing experience 

I have a standard (i.e. non-internally upgraded) Tivo HD. I have two Macally G-S350SUA eSATA/USB2/FW enclosures and a Seagate Barracuda 1TB SATA drive (ST31000340NS).

I removed the Tivo's internal drive and placed it into one of the enclosures and the Seagate in the other. I ran WinMFS per the instructions in the FAQ to get the Seagate ready. I returned Tivo's internal drive and connected the eSATA enclosure with a SATA II <=> SATA II cable (included with the enclosure) to Tivo. The drive was recognized and began to be used.

Unfortunately, Tivo restarted after only a few hours. I decided perhaps the included SATA II cable was bad, so I picked up one from Microcenter - still had reboots.

Next, I overnighted the SIIG cable listed here (my significant other is starting to not give a crap about expanded storage). Got a reboot within about 20 minutes.

Does anyone have any further suggestions? I love the idea of this much storage and particularly don't want to have to remove it now that it would erase everything in the de-pairing process.


----------



## gotillu

Not sure if you have already attempted this - try switching the enclosure that you are using for the external drive. There have been posts on this thread about faulty enclosures causing Tivo to behave erratically.

Ajay



BWilliamsDC said:


> Hey gurus,
> 
> I felt very proud of myself in following the instructions in the FAQ to add a non-approved eSATA external drive to my Tivo HD, but it now randomly reboots on itself wrecking my recordings and viewing experience
> 
> I have a standard (i.e. non-internally upgraded) Tivo HD. I have two Macally G-S350SUA eSATA/USB2/FW enclosures and a Seagate Barracuda 1TB SATA drive (ST31000340NS).
> 
> I removed the Tivo's internal drive and placed it into one of the enclosures and the Seagate in the other. I ran WinMFS per the instructions in the FAQ to get the Seagate ready. I returned Tivo's internal drive and connected the eSATA enclosure with a SATA II <=> SATA II cable (included with the enclosure) to Tivo. The drive was recognized and began to be used.
> 
> Unfortunately, Tivo restarted after only a few hours. I decided perhaps the included SATA II cable was bad, so I picked up one from Microcenter - still had reboots.
> 
> Next, I overnighted the SIIG cable listed here (my significant other is starting to not give a crap about expanded storage). Got a reboot within about 20 minutes.
> 
> Does anyone have any further suggestions? I love the idea of this much storage and particularly don't want to have to remove it now that it would erase everything in the de-pairing process.


----------



## BWilliamsDC

gotillu said:


> Not sure if you have already attempted this - try switching the enclosure that you are using for the external drive. There have been posts on this thread about faulty enclosures causing Tivo to behave erratically.
> 
> Ajay


I haven't - wish Tivo took USB or Firewire... I have a few of those lying around but no eSATA alternates. I'm leery of buying a new one if it won't work but might give it a shot. Starting to wonder why I didn't just do the internal option.


----------



## gotillu

BWilliamsDC said:


> I haven't - wish Tivo took USB or Firewire... I have a few of those lying around but no eSATA alternates. I'm leery of buying a new one if it won't work but might give it a shot. Starting to wonder why I didn't just do the internal option.


In your original post, you had mentioned that you have two Macally G-S350SUA eSATA/USB2/FW enclosures and I was thinking maybe you can switch the enclosure you are using with the other one.

Ajay


----------



## BWilliamsDC

gotillu said:


> In your original post, you had mentioned that you have two Macally G-S350SUA eSATA/USB2/FW enclosures and I was thinking maybe you can switch the enclosure you are using with the other one.
> 
> Ajay


D'oh - I got in too much "trouble" having Tivo not work this long. That'll show me to meddle with the TV.

I divorced the drives and had a surprising amount still stick around on Tivo, so that was nice. Using mfscopy quickly to get everything over and hopefully I'll have a happy, internally-upgraded Tivo in about 3 hours.


----------



## craven711

About 10 months ago I purchased a Tivo HD and for the first 5 months I used it with an SD cable connection and everything worked perfect. Then, about 5 months ago we moved and I opted not to subscribe to cable but instead use OTA HD signals. Things were going great but I quickly ran into capacity difficulties only being limited to 20 hrs. So about 3 months ago I ordered a 500GB Seagate FreeAgent eSATA external drive and used WinMFS to add the 'unsupported' DVR expander. I was loving the new 86 hr capacity. However, my Tivo HD has since started freezing and is getting progressively more prone to freeze (mostly on live TV - recordings are usually free of glitches/freezings). The only way it unfreezes is by unplugging it and rebooting (about 2x per week right now). Seeing that I made the transition from cable-> OTA & adding an 'unsupported' DVR expander somewhat around the same time I am unable to diagnose the freezing issue - So I am wondering if anyone else has had similar issues?

Does anyone else experience freezing using OTA HD signals?

Does anyone have any problems using a Seagate FreeAgent as an external DVR expander (or a DVR expander in general?)?

Would replacing my internal drive with a 1 TB WD10EACS and eliminating the external Drive help my situation?

What is the better drive: 1TB WD10EVCS or WD10EACS?

Thanks in advance


----------



## greg_burns

craven711 said:


> About 10 months ago I purchased a Tivo HD...?


Is your TivoHD "freeze" similar to the problem described in this thread?

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6381525#post6381525



craven711 said:


> What is the better drive: 1TB WD10EVCS or WD10EACS?
> 
> Thanks in advance


WD10EVCS is slightly more expensive, does that mean WD considers it better?


----------



## jlb

I know it is documented that upgrading via USB-sata adapters can take days. But is that based on a 750gb drive that is full of recordings? 

If my stock THD drive has about 5 hours of HD and a smattering of SD, how long do you think it would take?

I've been waiting for a 1tb DVR Expander to be released, but summer time is the right time for me to consider an internal upgrade.

I assume a pci sata card is probably the same or less expensive than 2 usb-sata adapters. With our newer quad-core dell, the upgrade should be rather quick. 

I still have to get over the issue of what happens if I muck it up, which should not be the case.......my fam would kill me. Of course, at that time, I would just have to obtain a raw image (weaknees or wherever).


----------



## greg_burns

jlb said:


> I assume a pci sata card is probably the same or less expensive than 2 usb-sata adapters. With our newer quad-core dell, the upgrade should be rather quick.


You have a quad-code that doesn't have sata?


----------



## jlb

oooops...let me rephrase that......My Dell has a SATA drive as the on board HD. I just haven't looked yet to see how many additional ports. It's the Inspiron 530 series. If, by chance, it only has 1 free port, can you "split" a sata port? If not, at that point, do I just buy a card?

Last but not least, I guess I'll have to at least buy 1 sata cable as a new drive will only have one.


----------



## jlb

Update:

I checked the dell site for the 530 manual and it looks like there are 4 ports on board (10,11, 15, 17), so I would just need one additional cable for the upgrade (assuming new drives come with one). Will any ol' sata cable (say Ratshack for example) do, or should I get one of the basic ones from Monoprice?


----------



## jlb

And last item.....

Is the WD 1tb mentioned on the prior page (and I know throughout the many pages) still considered to be the best value 1tb drive? What is the best price found lately?

I am really leaning towards trying an upgrade, finally, but I just don't know if our current budget allows for "costs" such as this. Sure, I could ask for a drive around the holidays, but I would rather do an upgrade in the summer than in the midst of the "Fall/winter" season.


----------



## greg_burns

jlb said:


> ...so I would just need one additional cable for the upgrade (assuming new drives come with one). Will any ol' sata cable (say Ratshack for example) do, or should I get one of the basic ones from Monoprice?


The drive I bought from buy.com didn't come with any cables. :down:

OEMs never do. Thinking about this, not sure where on buy.com site it says is was even suppose to have been just an OEM drive. Odd.

Edit: the WD10EACS says "OEM/Bare" in description, but the WD10EVS did not.

Any sata cable should do.


----------



## greg_burns

jlb said:


> And last item.....
> 
> Is the WD 1tb mentioned on the prior page (and I know throughout the many pages) still considered to be the best value 1tb drive? What is the best price found lately?


WD10EVCS $202 (internal for S3 or TivoHD)

WD10EACS $191 (internal for TivoHD only)

Might be better prices to be found. Not sure.


----------



## jlb

That sucks. The link on the prior page to the drive on best buy would be a retail version. Do the retail versions come with cables usually?


----------



## greg_burns

jlb said:


> That sucks. The link on the prior page to the drive on best buy would be a retail version. Do the retail versions come with cables usually?


Haven't bought retail in a long time, but all IDE drives that I've bought did. I assume a sata one would.

Yeah, that BestBuy price ($170) for the WD10EACS is a good one.


----------



## GregComeLately

jlb said:


> And last item.....
> 
> Is the WD 1tb mentioned on the prior page (and I know throughout the many pages) still considered to be the best value 1tb drive? What is the best price found lately?


I've been watching prices pretty closely the last several weeks, and the best prices are increasingly gravitating towards the $150-$170 mark, so I would hold out for something in this range and not pay any more than that. This range covers the WD GP drives, and most other brands/models of 1TB as well.

The WD WD10EVCS model, ostensibly made specifically for DVRs, etc., is in another price range. Not a lot of sellers for this new model yet, but $200 is about the best you can do for this one thus far.

Then of course, there are the optimized Seagate drives offered by forum sponsor/s, but those are still in another pricing stratosphere last time I checked.

Thinking out of the box, you could also consider getting a 750GB drive and use it for a while, then later on down the line upgrade to the 1TB size. I say that because the 750GB drive represents the best bang for buck size. In order for the 1TB's to reach the same value, they would have to get down to the $125-$130 range. Obviously, there would be more work upgrading the internal Tivo drive twice instead of just once. Plus, you'd have to have another use for the 750GB drive once you do upgrade to the 1TB. Just a thought.


----------



## jlb

Thanks. I will stick to waiting for doing some 1TB solution. I would NEVER get the go ahead to buy a 750gb and then also buy a 1TB 6 months later. Would never fly.

While I would prefer the EVCS from the WD line, I think the EACS would be fine for me. Seems like it is working just fine for TiVoHD owners. From a sheer ease perspective, a 1TB MY DVR drive would be nice. I have to believe it will be out, it is just a matter of exactly when. But, if I went internal, it is one less point of failure and you don't have to worry about losing programs when you disconnect the drive.

That being said, if WD/TiVo announced the 1TB external drive being available in, say, a September time frame, I lay the groundwork at home for that. But if we don't think it is coming out until, say, BF to X-mas time, then I think I finally get over my upgrade hangups and spend for a WD GP internal 1TB.


----------



## greg_burns

jlb said:


> But, if I went internal, it is one less point of failure and you don't have to worry about losing programs when you disconnect the drive.


Just wanted to point out this isn't really an issue. You have to do the three thumbs down and enter to divorce an external drive. Ain't gonna happen by accident.


----------



## gotillu

Yes, WD10000CSRTL which is the retail version of WD10EACS does come with the SATA cable.

Ajay



greg_burns said:


> Haven't bought retail in a long time, but all IDE drives that I've bought did. I assume a sata one would.
> 
> Yeah, that BestBuy price ($170) for the WD10EACS is a good one.


----------



## jlib

craven711 said:


> ...What is the better drive: 1TB WD10EVCS or WD10EACS?...


Since you have an THD the better drive is the cheapest of the two you can obtain at any particular time. If you had an S3 then the best solution for an internal drive would be the WD10EVCS due to compatibility issues.


----------



## jlib

greg_burns said:


> ...I bought from buy.com didn't come with any cables. :down:
> 
> OEMs never do. Thinking about this, not sure where on buy.com site it says is was even suppose to have been just an OEM drive. Odd....


Note that the WD10EACS WD10EVCS, as with all "DVR" drives, will never be seen in retail packaging since they were never originally intended to be sold to end users, only to OEMs (the DVR manufacturers). So, there is no real need to distinguish it as OEM because it always is.


----------



## gotillu

I am assuming you are referring to WD10EVCS and NOT WD10EACS. The latter is one of the GP drives from Western Digital and does come in a retail package - WD10000CSRTL.

Ajay



jlib said:


> Note that the WD10EACS, as with all "DVR" drives, will never be seen in retail packaging since they were never originally intended to be sold to end users, only to OEMs (the DVR manufacturers). So, there is no real need to distinguish it as OEM because it always is.


----------



## husky55

gotillu said:


> I am assuming you are referring to WD10EVCS and NOT WD10EACS. The latter is one of the GP drives from Western Digital and does come in a retail package - WD10000CSRTL.
> 
> Ajay


True. I bought this retail package and it was the WD10EACS inside with the SATA 2 cable in the box. SATA 2 cable has a locking clip, SATA 1 doesn't.


----------



## jlb

greg_burns said:


> Just wanted to point out this isn't really an issue. You have to do the three thumbs down and enter to divorce an external drive. Ain't gonna happen by accident.


I meant that oncde you disconnect the drive, all programs recorded, regardless of the location of the program (internal or external) are no longer accessible, right?

So if you have an external drive failure, you lose everything.

I know it is no big deal. It really is a matter of drive availability for me. If there is definitive evidence of a 1TB external on the horizon, I will wait for that. But if we hear that it won't be until end of year or even into 2009, then I may scrounge up WAF points and shoot for an internal upgrade this summer.


----------



## jlib

gotillu said:


> I am assuming you are referring to WD10EVCS and NOT WD10EACS. The latter is one of the GP drives from Western Digital and does come in a retail package - WD10000CSRTL.
> 
> Ajay


 Yes, what was I thinking! Thanks for the correction.


----------



## phototrek

HELP!

A few pages back I asked a few questions, double-checking the procedure before upgrading. I ended up in a world of hurt, as described here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=397746

Nobody replied to me there, so I'll try in this thread since after all it has to do with my upgrade. The situation so far:

1) Take a THD unit and upgrade it via WinMFS (beta7) to a 400GiB drive
2) Take said 400GiB drive and upgrade it again to the 1TiB drive (WD green)

This all goes well, and the unit runs for ~2 days. Now I don't know exactly what the trigger is, if it's the volume of video on the drive or the ~2 days of wait. So I took a 2nd identical Green WD drive and performed the upgrade again. As soon as the upgrade was finished I created a wish list recording all HD movies it could find, to fill the drive as quickly as possible.

~2 days later, same result: "Serious problem with the DVR" and endless reboot loop.

I am certain that this 2nd time the 1TiB drive was more full than the first round, because it had recorded 26 HD movies before dying. Nevertheless, the results aren't favorable.

I wonder if anyone has any idea what may be going on. Was it the daily call that blew it up? Was it the 2nd generation upgrade? (note I am not upgrading from the stock drive but rather from a 400GiB upgrade, which I was told works fine). Was it the "space maximizer" that I had turned on in WinMFS? I don't think it's a faulty drive because I tried two with same results.

Right now I am trying my luck upgrading my 750GiB S3 to the 1TiB drive, and see how that goes. Without space maximizer. I don't have any high hopes, that's for sure.

Any suggestions would be very welcome.


----------



## ThAbtO

phototrek said:


> 1) Take a THD unit and upgrade it via WinMFS (beta7) to a 400GiB drive
> 2) Take said 400GiB drive and upgrade it again to the 1TiB drive (WD green)


I don't mean to nick pick, but I was just wondering what is that 'i' in 'GiB' and 'TiB' for? because I know that GB stands for Gigabyte, TB stands for Terabyte.


----------



## phototrek

ThAbtO said:


> I don't mean to nick pick, but I was just wondering what is that 'i' in 'GiB' and 'TiB' for? because I know that GB stands for Gigabyte, TB stands for Terabyte.


Yeah. See, and now I just realized that it's backwards. The drive is 1TB (or 400GB), the memory in my computer is 6GiB. I always used it backwards, sorry for the confusion.


----------



## richsadams

phototrek said:


> HELP!
> 
> A few pages back I asked a few questions, double-checking the procedure before upgrading. I ended up in a world of hurt, as described here:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=397746
> 
> Nobody replied to me there, so I'll try in this thread since after all it has to do with my upgrade. The situation so far:
> 
> 1) Take a THD unit and upgrade it via WinMFS (beta7) to a 400GiB drive
> 2) Take said 400GiB drive and upgrade it again to the 1TiB drive (WD green)
> 
> <snip>
> 
> Any suggestions would be very welcome.


It sounds as if the problem could be one of two things:

1. Your new 1TB drive has some bad sectors and works fine until recordings hit that area.

2. The 400GB drive is passing on a flaw of some nature.

My advice (and you get what you pay for here ) would be to start from scratch. First run a diagnostic like WD's Lifeguard program on your new 1TB drive to ensure that it's good.

If your new drive is good, upgrade/image it with your original TiVo HD drive using WinMFS. You'll end up losing whatever recordings you have but your settings should remain if they haven't changed since you upgraded the first time.

Another option (particularly if you don't have your original drive) is to use Instant Cake to image your new drive.

Best of luck!


----------



## richsadams

jlb said:


> Thanks. I will stick to waiting for doing some 1TB solution. I would NEVER get the go ahead to buy a 750gb and then also buy a 1TB 6 months later. Would never fly.
> 
> While I would prefer the EVCS from the WD line, I think the EACS would be fine for me. Seems like it is working just fine for TiVoHD owners. From a sheer ease perspective, a 1TB MY DVR drive would be nice. I have to believe it will be out, it is just a matter of exactly when. But, if I went internal, it is one less point of failure and you don't have to worry about losing programs when you disconnect the drive.
> 
> That being said, if WD/TiVo announced the 1TB external drive being available in, say, a September time frame, I lay the groundwork at home for that. But if we don't think it is coming out until, say, BF to X-mas time, then I think I finally get over my upgrade hangups and spend for a WD GP internal 1TB.


Just my two cents...I wouldn't hold my breath for a 1TB WD My DVR Expander until late this year, early next. Plus, based on the initial and even current pricing of the 500GB model, if/when it is introduced it will retail for well over what it's truly worth. My WAG? $325+.

Your best bet is to go with the WD10EACS 1TB hard drive as an internal upgrade for your TiVo HD. Ours was whisper quiet out of the box and you can adjust the acoustics even lower if you're placing it your bedroom, etc. TiVo can't take advantage of the other DVR dedicated features of the WD10EVCS so there's no sense in spending the extra money.

Let us know how it goes.


----------



## jlib

ThAbtO said:


> ...I was just wondering what is that 'i' in 'GiB' and 'TiB' for? because I know that GB stands for Gigabyte, TB stands for Terabyte.


It is just a way to disambiguate the binary and decimal meanings of "gigabyte" (and "terabyte.")


----------



## colin1497

dwit said:


> Bad for internal use with the original S3.
> 
> Good for all other uses: good for internal use with Tivo HD. Good for external use with original S3 and Tivo HD.


Thanks for the reply. I will avoid this for that purpose (have an S3 and am doing internal upgrade) but I think I'm gonna get a couple of these for my PC to serve video from as I'm getting an HD video camera...


----------



## jlb

richsadams said:


> Just my two cents...I wouldn't hold my breath for a 1TB WD My DVR Expander until late this year, early next. Plus, based on the initial and even current pricing of the 500GB model, if/when it is introduced it will retail for well over what it's truly worth. My WAG? $325+.
> 
> Your best bet is to go with the WD10EACS 1TB hard drive as an internal upgrade for your TiVo HD. Ours was whisper quiet out of the box and you can adjust the acoustics even lower if you're placing it your bedroom, etc. TiVo can't take advantage of the other DVR dedicated features of the WD10EVCS so there's no sense in spending the extra money.
> 
> Let us know how it goes.


You're right. I just have to run the HD by the keeper of the budget and see if I can squeeze an HD in sooner than later.....


----------



## SMWinnie

ThAbtO said:


> I don't mean to nick pick, but I was just wondering what is that 'i' in 'GiB' and 'TiB' for? because I know that GB stands for Gigabyte, TB stands for Terabyte.


The "i" is supposed to make you think "binary."
1GB = 10^9 bytes
1GiB = 2^30 bytes = approx. 1.07GB

File and memory amounts have traditionally been quoted in powers of two that are close to powers of a thousand. (1 KB = 2^10 bytes = 1,024 bytes and 1MB = 2^20 bytes = 1,048,576 bytes)

Hard drives are sold in powers of ten. (New 320GB drive? Windows will see that 320 billion bytes as about 299 x 2^30 bytes and report it as 299GB.) Why? Seagate (or Fujitsu, or WD) doesn't want to quote "binary" sizes if Samsung (or whoever) is using decimal, because the Seagate drives will look slightly less capacious at about the same price. As quoted upthread, the newly GiB/TiB designation is there to resolve the ambiguity.

...so we get to try to pronounce gibibyte. Yep...progress.


----------



## husky55

My Tivo HD with the WD 1TB has been working perfectly for months. However with the Olympic trials featuring Michael Phelps and Katie Hoff and Lockte and Diana Torres, I thought, may be some recordings of the Olympic Games would be in order. Since HD would be preferred, more storage would be needed.

With the price of HD tumbling down, now is the perfect time to add an external Esata drive. With the Antec MX1 enclosure and a new Hitachi Desktsar 750GB I reviewed again the procedure with Winmfs and mfsadd, just to be sure.

I knew the Hitachi Deskstar 750 GB was not on the recommended list, but the Hitachi Deskstar 1 TB is , so I took a chance.

Well, I was extra careful with the procedure, using 2 sata connectors on my Intel Quad core with Win XP SP3 and all the newest updates.

Reinstalled the WD drive back in Tivo and the new Esata MX1-Deskstar according to procedure. Power the Esata drive first and then Tivo,

Well, Tivo system info showed that I now have 255 Hrs of HD capacity. But what is that yellowish color in the picture? The red color has disappeared.

Well, running DVD, the TV works fine. What can it possibly be? so I decided to remove the Esata drive. 3 thumps down and enter. But the Tivo did not reboot for 30 minutes.

So I unplug the Tivo and reboot. Now a new message "Tivo has detected and critical problem and will attemp to fix it.....

If the Tivo does not reboot in 3 hours, call customer support."

Well, it's the 4th of July, nobody is working anyway.

We shall see....


----------



## greg_burns

husky55 said:


> ...so I decided to remove the Esata drive. 3 thumps down and enter. But the Tivo did not reboot for 30 minutes.


Why didn't you let it finish the divorce? Not sure how long it takes, but only waiting 30 minutes seems impatient. Wasn't there a message that it may takes hours?


----------



## husky55

greg_burns said:


> Why didn't you let it finish the divorce? Not sure how long it takes, but only waiting 30 minutes seems impatient. Wasn't there a message that it may takes hours?


I was impatient and messed it up. However, after a couple hours, Tivo did reboot itself and it's back.

Unhappily, the picture in HD is yellowish again and a lot of flickering. Really unsatisfactory.

So I replaced the 1TB WD with the original HD which came with the Tivo HD. Same thing.
There was nothing wrong that I can detect with the HDs, since I replaced them and same results. Removed the Esata same thing.

At this point I am at a loss. Can it be Comcast? Still get all the channels from HBO, Starz and ESPN etc...

Or is Tivo doing something at their end? Can the M-card get corrupted somehow?

Will appreciate your comments, Greg, did you ever encounter something like this?

I really like to get my picture back. Picture quality that is.


----------



## 1283

Try a different video cable and/or video output from the TiVo.


----------



## richsadams

As C3 says, you could try HDMI or Component video output (or even RCA composite - yellow out) to see if it's one of your cables. You could also try replacing the coax from the wall to TiVo and/or the splitter if you have one (and if so, try running the coax direct to TiVo to eliminate a problem with the splitter). 

Even before that I'd connect the coax directly to your TV to determine if it is a cableco issue (although probably not). I'd also unplug and reboot everything associated with your system, TiVo, TV, receiver, UPS, etc., etc.

If/when you pop TiVo open again have a look at all of the cables, wires, connections and see if something might have come loose or if something is interfering with how things were...not that you would remember of course, but sometimes it's fairly simple to look at the wires, how they are laying, etc. to see one that doesn't look right.

Best of luck!


----------



## greg_burns

husky55 said:


> Will appreciate your comments, Greg, did you ever encounter something like this?


I've had my S3 reboot before and the startup welcome screen have an orange/yellow tint. I've seen that probably three times before. It always corrects itself. Not sure what causes it. Never seen it past the boot sequence.


----------



## husky55

TYA for your suggestions.

HMDI - Connected the Tivo directly to TV with HDMI - set TV to Digital-In input (JVC acronym for HDMI) no picture, just a green screen.

Can it be that TV HDMI was defective? I did use TV HDMI about 6 month ago with a DVD player, and it was working then. Never used Tivo with HDMI before, so I am paranoid.

Replaced coax from wall to Tivo, no change, yellowish screen and flickering, even on HS channels. Even in Tivo Central, change from up and down the menu, caused flickering.

Restart reboot from Tivo Central instead of unplugging power. Same thing. Reseat the M-Card. Same thing. No change, same yellowish and flickering screen. Still get all HD encrypted channels. Since I am at it, changed all the component video cables. Not the cables. Picture is still yellowish and flickering.

Opened Tivo again to check everything as Rick suggested. Everything looked tight and neat. I was EXTREMELY careful when changing HD, no loose connection or stray wire or anything I can think of. This is from somebody who build computers since the I368 days (before I486 microprocessor) until now (Intel Quad core etc...).

Will contact Tivo and Comcast to see what their suggestions are. I still don't understand how adding an ESATA HD could have caused this. Can HD change caused the video output or processor to go bad? 

Thanks you all again. Life moves on.


----------



## richsadams

husky55 said:


> TYA for your suggestions.


Sounds like you've done just about everything. By chance do you have another TV to which you can connect your TiVo to see if the same thing happens? If not, maybe at a friend's house?

The HDMI connection from TiVo to your TV shouldn't generate anything but a normal picture. It is possible that the HDMI cable is defective. (You can see if it's active on the TiVo System Info screen...that should tell you if the cable is bad.) It's also possible that both TiVo and your TV need to be rebooted after the connection is made to ensure the HDCP "handshake" takes place.

Something else to try, although it shouldn't be the cause of the yellowish PQ, would be to change the video output from whatever it is (1080i, 480p, etc.) to something else and see what happens. Others have reported making a change and then changing it back to what they had/liked and things were normal again.

Connecting an eSATA drive shouldn't have anything to do with the PQ particularly since you've removed it from the mix now (I think). I can't think of anything associated with that activity that would cause what you're seeing. But just to see what happens, I'd try connecting the eSATA drive again...and if you decide to divorce it, make sure you follow all of the screen instructions. 

Replacing the internal drive may have caused something to go south, but even then I can't think what it would be unless something was unseated or shorted at the time...but that's very unlikely as well. Whatever it is (video processor, etc.) might have been borderline and all it took was something to be moved, a slight power surge...who knows?

Anyway, good luck chasing this one down. It is unusual to be sure and it would be good to know what, if anything, you find out. :up:

Hey...I'm old enough to remember working on I386's. Wasn't Windows 3.1 wonderful? Ha!


----------



## husky55

Thanks Rich for the helpful and kind words. Just a little update:

Spent some time with the Tivo tech. Went again through everything. Including running the coax cable from the wall directly to the TV. TV and coax works fine. No HD, no digital even when cable card was moved over to TV. Needs pairing, I think.

The Tivo tech was pretty sure it's the Tivo which went bad. So he is sending me a replacement. $50 + shipping + whatever .

So I am looking again for transferring my old account to the new Tivo. Not sure how this will be done. Can I use the WD 1TB from the old Tivo and just install it in the new Tivo or do I have to repeat the copy procedure from the factory HD?

If anybody has done this, please comment.

There are some recordings that I would like to keep if it's at all possible.

I am also really tempted to add the Esata Hitachi Deskstar MX1 again. Wonder if the 750 GB Deskstar is not the cause of any trouble.

Common sense says no. But see where common sense led me. Down in the hole.

I am now running as Rich suggested, from coax wall to TV with all the free SD channels. Cannot get any digital and/or HD channels since M-card was activated but not paired with TV. Comcast lady sent a couple signal hits but we got nothing on TV with cable card inserted. so another Comcast truck roll coming up.

Well, just an update for info. Looking for better days ahead!!! Olympic Games in August, lots of new shows on HBO!!!


----------



## richsadams

husky55 said:


> Thanks Rich for the helpful and kind words. Just a little update:
> 
> Spent some time with the Tivo tech. Went again through everything. Including running the coax cable from the wall directly to the TV. TV and coax works fine. No HD, no digital even when cable card was moved over to TV. Needs pairing, I think.
> 
> The Tivo tech was pretty sure it's the Tivo which went bad. So he is sending me a replacement. $50 + shipping + whatever .
> 
> So I am looking again for transferring my old account to the new Tivo. Not sure how this will be done. Can I use the WD 1TB from the old Tivo and just install it in the new Tivo or do I have to repeat the copy procedure from the factory HD?
> 
> If anybody has done this, please comment.
> 
> There are some recordings that I would like to keep if it's at all possible.
> 
> I am also really tempted to add the Esata Hitachi Deskstar MX1 again. Wonder if the 750 GB Deskstar is not the cause of any trouble.
> 
> Common sense says no. But see where common sense led me. Down in the hole.
> 
> I am now running as Rich suggested, from coax wall to TV with all the free SD channels. Cannot get any digital and/or HD channels since M-card was activated but not paired with TV. Comcast lady sent a couple signal hits but we got nothing on TV with cable card inserted. so another Comcast truck roll coming up.
> 
> Well, just an update for info. Looking for better days ahead!!! Olympic Games in August, lots of new shows on HBO!!!


The new TiVo should do the trick then. I just don't see how the eSATA drive could have anything to do with the PQ issue. Probably just a coincidence. Although the Hitachi drive you have isn't on the recommended list, it shouldn't be an issue. The list consists of drives that have been reported to work by forum members. If one is known _not_ to work, they are included in the original post too. It's likely that no one has tried that particular model is all...and you're right, if the 1TB model is working, the 750GB model should as well. No guarantees of course, YMMV and all of that, but I don't see a reason it would be problematic. Once it's all up and running you can report back and perhaps bkdtv will be good enough to add it to his excellent post.

You could try inserting the 1TB drive into your new TiVo and see what happens. Me? I'd plan on having Comcast set things up again, properly pairing the cable card and then go through the upgrade afterward. That way you know you'll have a "clean" source (the new TiVo's hard drive), etc. and not have the "what if's" in the back of your mind. Plus it would probably be a good idea to run your new box for a week or two to be sure there's nothing wrong with it.

You could use TiVo Desktop to transfer recordings to your PC and then back to your new TiVo.

They're pretty good about getting TiVo shipped quickly so by this time next week you should be up and running again.

Keep us posted!


----------



## ThAbtO

http://shop4.frys.com/product/55286...6YlvBTTGQ**.node1?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG WD10000CSRTL

$169 for the WD green drive 1TB, good 7/4 thru 8th.


----------



## jlib

Darn, tax and shipping kills that one for me. Good find, though...


----------



## shrike4242

Is Iomega getting into the DVR expander market now?

http://store.iomega.com/item?SID=04957891806917e3a96a5041df8ae97d7c6:4760&sku=34172#learnmore


----------



## 1283

shrike4242 said:


> Is Iomega getting into the DVR expander market now?


"DVR expander" is just an eSATA drive -- nothing really special about it.


----------



## thomaslue

shrike4242 said:


> Is Iomega getting into the DVR expander market now?
> 
> http://store.iomega.com/item?SID=04957891806917e3a96a5041df8ae97d7c6:4760&sku=34172#learnmore


I certainly hope so!
Vendor competition is healthy for everyone.


----------



## thomaslue

ThAbtO said:


> http://shop4.frys.com/product/55286...6YlvBTTGQ**.node1?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG WD10000CSRTL
> $169 for the WD green drive 1TB, good 7/4 thru 8th.


I don't see that WD10000CSRTL on the approved list at FAQ #27...


----------



## 1283

thomaslue said:


> Vendor competition is healthy for everyone.


Still no competition (for TiVo HD) unless it uses the same WD drive inside, or TiVo decides to add it to the supported drive list.


----------



## greg_burns

thomaslue said:


> I don't see that WD10000CSRTL on the approved list at FAQ #27...


You may already be aware...



gotillu said:


> Yes, WD10000CSRTL which is the retail version of WD10EACS does come with the SATA cable.


It would be less confusing if it was added to the list. :up:


----------



## ThAbtO

Found the Supported 500gb DVR Expander for tivo.


----------



## husky55

Just a quick update. The Hitachi Deskstar 7K750 with the Antec MX-1 works well with the WD EACS 1 TB.

Everything is back to normality.

Thanks again to RichsAdams and Greg_Burns who have been very helpful. I basically follow rich's guidance to the letter.

@richsadams, I have travelled long and far, but I have never been to Oregon or Lake Oswego. I don't think I will ever get there. But it must be a wonderful place, if it has people like yourself. Competent, courteous, helpful and generous. Thanks again.

@greg_burns, I have been to Delaware several times. I love the no sales tax, no income tax state law. But my kids are in CT so I will stay here.

So all is well which ends well.

Thanks again guys,


----------



## husky55

Just in case you are interested. World's first 1.5 TB drive. May be we don't need the ESATA drive anymore!!!

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9109018&source=NLT_AM&nlid=1


----------



## jlib

Nice! I thought for sure Samsung would win that crown, though.


----------



## richsadams

husky55 said:


> Just a quick update. The Hitachi Deskstar 7K750 with the Antec MX-1 works well with the WD EACS 1 TB.
> 
> Everything is back to normality.
> 
> Thanks again to RichsAdams and Greg_Burns who have been very helpful. I basically follow rich's guidance to the letter.


No worries and glad to help...happier still that my advice didn't turn your TiVo into a large paperweight!


----------



## richsadams

husky55 said:


> Just in case you are interested. World's first 1.5 TB drive. May be we don't need the ESATA drive anymore!!!
> 
> http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9109018&source=NLT_AM&nlid=1


D'oh! Now I have to start all over again! Okay...who wants to be a guinea pig...um, pioneer?!


----------



## elkcum55

If I replace the internal series 3 drive with a 1 TB drive, will it automatically work or will Cox cable have to resend the info to the cards again? It took them MONTHS to finally get the TIVO working properly and I would hate to have them have to start all over again. If I have to have them do the cards from scratch again, I will not replace the drive. I already have a 750gb external. 

Thanks for your help


----------



## richsadams

elkcum55 said:


> If I replace the internal series 3 drive with a 1 TB drive, will it automatically work or will Cox cable have to resend the info to the cards again? It took them MONTHS to finally get the TIVO working properly and I would hate to have them have to start all over again. If I have to have them do the cards from scratch again, I will not replace the drive. I already have a 750gb external.
> 
> Thanks for your help


Actually everything you need to know is in the first post of this sticky thread. That said, if you follow the appropriate upgrade directions using WinMFS all of your cable card settings, season passes, etc. will remain intact and you won't have to have your cableco pay a visit.

There are a couple of things to keep in mind though. If you're going to upgrade your internal drive you will no longer be able to connect an external drive via plug and play. When you upgrade this time you will need to "marry" your eSATA drive to your internal drive using WinMFS (the same program you'll use to upgrade the internal drive). You'd have to follow same procedure any succeeding times you want to change your eSATA drive. It's not complicated, just a couple of more steps to follow is all.

Finally, if you want to keep your existing recordings you'll need to follow some more complicated instructions (specifically Section III, #11 on the first post of this sticky thread). You also have the option of transferring any recordings you want to keep to your PC using TiVo Desktop and then transferring them back after the upgrade which is the best way to go IMHO. If you don't mind losing your recordings you can just follow the basic instructions for upgrading your internal hard drive and marrying your external hard drive. Your cable card and other settings will remain intact.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes. :up:


----------



## lrhorer

richsadams said:


> D'oh! Now I have to start all over again! Okay...who wants to be a guinea pig...um, pioneer?!


Hmm. I might. IF I can afford it, depending on the timing of the release, I rather need to pick up a 1.5TB drive for another purpose. I don't have any problems with pulling the existing drive, copying over to the 1.5T, doing some testing prior to installing the 1.5T drive where it needs to go, and putting the 500G drive back where it belongs. I'll have to see when it comes out and how many pennies I have in my pocket.


----------



## richsadams

lrhorer said:


> Hmm. I might. IF I can afford it, depending on the timing of the release, I rather need to pick up a 1.5TB drive for another purpose. I don't have any problems with pulling the existing drive, copying over to the 1.5T, doing some testing prior to installing the 1.5T drive where it needs to go, and putting the 500G drive back where it belongs. I'll have to see when it comes out and how many pennies I have in my pocket.


Cool! :up:


----------



## jlib

richsadams said:


> ...Finally, if you want to keep your existing recordings you'll need to follow some more complicated instructions (specifically Section III, #11 on the first post of this sticky thread)...


It looks like he already has an external drive upgrade and that section assumes a new external drive upgrade. Not a problem other than the loss of existing recordings on the large external drive when he re-adds it to the new internal drive. So, it looks like the TiVo Desktop method is his only option for preserving them.


----------



## richsadams

jlib said:


> It looks like he already has an external drive upgrade and that section assumes a new external drive upgrade. Not a problem other than the loss of existing recordings on the large external drive when he re-adds it to the new internal drive. So, it looks like the TiVo Desktop method is his only option for preserving them.


Exactly. :up:


----------



## analog4

Any problems with using a Seagate ST31000340NS (Barracuda ES.2 1TB)?


----------



## richsadams

analog4 said:


> Any problems with using a Seagate ST31000340NS (Barracuda ES.2 1TB)?


AFAIK you'd be the first to try this particular model but I don't see any reason that it wouldn't work. Although it's an enterprise class (server oriented) drive, unlike other Barracuda's the seek specs (2.5 to 2.7) are fairly quiet. The only downside I see is the cost...a number of other models can be purchased for less (especially when they are on sale). But if you have one lying around it seems like it should do the trick.

Let us know how it goes!


----------



## analog4

richsadams said:


> AFAIK you'd be the first to try this particular model but I don't see any reason that it wouldn't work. Although it's an enterprise class (server oriented) drive, unlike other Barracuda's the seek specs (2.5 to 2.7) are fairly quiet. The only downside I see is the cost...a number of other models can be purchased for less (especially when they are on sale). But if you have one lying around it seems like it should do the trick.
> 
> Let us know how it goes!


The downside is cost - but mine would be free.

I figure I'll do the switch once I get my CableCard issue fixed, and I can clear off the existing programming - a few shows. Nothing a Saturday morning can't take care of. I'll read over the WinMFS stuff before I ask any specific questions. I plan to do a backup of the TiVo drive, then put the contents of my current TiVo drive to a 1TB, and I may use the MfsSuperSize option (still thinking about it).


----------



## richsadams

Free is (usually) good! :up:

Between bkdtv's excellent first post on this thread and Spike's more than excellent free program at MFSLive.org, you should have no problems. 

BTW, MFS SuperSize is a no-brainer...simply two additional clicks to gain some additional recording space.

I always recommend keeping the original TiVo drive on the shelf JIC. If something goes south you can always pop it back in to get things up and running once more.

Keep us posted.


----------



## efreedenburg

Hi

I have a Tivo Series 3 HD
antec mx1 with Hitachi Deskstar 1000Gb HDS721010KLA330 
and a seagate free agent pro 750 gig

With the MX-1 Hitachi combo after about 30 minutes Tivo will reboot or hang or pixilate with the mx1 and Hitachi. It is unwatchable.

Divorce the esata everything runs perfectly.

Plug in the Seagate and it runs perfectly for 3 weeks until I received the rma'd Hitachi drive.

Installed the rmna'd drive in the mx-1 and what do you know? 

The new drive exhibits the exact the same problems, reboots freezes and pixilation.

I have run the Hitachi advanced tests on the bare drive and it passes all tests.

Ran the tests in the mx-1 and it fails.

Soo, I plug in the Seagate Free Agent and everything is fine now for the last 8 days.

Please help would like to use the Mx-1 and Hitachi Deskstar.

Thanks for listening
Ed


----------



## greg_burns

efreedenburg said:


> Ran the tests in the mx-1 and it fails.


Did you have it connected via USB or eSata to your PC while testing? Maybe try a new eSata cable, or get a replacement mx-1? Somebody reported here before that Antec was very helpful with exchanging theirs.


----------



## husky55

@efreedenburg,

I have the Hitachi and MX-1 and they work fine. The problem is in the MX-1 or esata cable since you already had 2 Hitachi HD used with the same problem.

It's strange that the Seagate FreeAgent works for you.

May be you could use a different computer to marry the drives i.e. run Winmfs.

I had a weird failure of the Tivo box itself and was pulling my hair out figuring what could have gone wrong.


----------



## efreedenburg

Will try to get RMA for the mx-1.

Could someone post the Feature Tool settings for their working Hitachi Drive, maybe something is messed up with power management or cache etc. The mx-1 combo will run fine for about 30 minutes then goes beserk.

I have not set anything in in Feature Tool, but maybe something is different.

Thanks Again
Ed


----------



## Flyinace2000

Any changes for TivoHD users in 9.4 (can we use non approved eSATA drives?)


----------



## richsadams

efreedenburg said:


> Will try to get RMA for the mx-1.
> 
> Could someone post the Feature Tool settings for their working Hitachi Drive, maybe something is messed up with power management or cache etc. The mx-1 combo will run fine for about 30 minutes then goes beserk.
> 
> I have not set anything in in Feature Tool, but maybe something is different.
> 
> Thanks Again
> Ed


Sorry to hear that you're having problems with your eSATA drive. I agree with Greg and Husky, your issues have all the earmarks of a bad eSATA cable or enclosure. If it's the enclosure it's likely something to do with the bridge. Since the problem occurs about a half-hour after connecting it, it's probably something heat/chip related which makes me suspect the enclosure more than a cable. A new MX-1 should do the trick. (It comes with a cable anyway.)

Here's the Hitachi Feature Tool link.

FWIW, to avoid confusion when describing your TiVo, this is commonly called a TiVo HD and this is commonly called a TiVo Series3. Both are labeled as Series3's, but it can be confusing if you say "Series 3 HD."

Good luck and let us know how things go. :up:


----------



## richsadams

Flyinace2000 said:


> Any changes for TivoHD users in 9.4 (can we use non approved eSATA drives?)


I can't say for sure...haven't received the update yet...but my money says no. TiVo was kind enough to let us skate on the P&P eSATA options with the Series3. It was never intended to be that way but the secret about how to do it leaked out and they saw fit to accommodate a lot of us. They also surmised that there would be issues if that happened and this thread more than confirms their suspicions. IMHO they made a wise business decision locking down the TiVo HD's. Not that I like it, but I can understand their desire to control support issues;not having to deal with every imaginable configuration we crazies might come up with.

So long story longer, I wouldn't hold my breath for anything but a TiVo approved drive to be connected via plug and pray when it comes to the TiVo HD. Mind you, I'd like to be proven wrong.

That said, you can of course follow the directions on the very first post of this sticky thread to connect unauthorized drives if you're comfortable opening up your TiVo and using WinMFS to conduct a marriage ceremony. Consensus has it that you might as well just upgrade the TiVo HD's OEM drive if you're going to go to the trouble though.


----------



## greg_burns

richsadams said:


> FWIW, to avoid confusion when describing your TiVo, this is commonly called a TiVo HD and this is commonly called a TiVo Series3. Both are labeled as Series3's, but it can be confusing if you say "Series 3 HD."


+1

You can no longer tell what hardware anyone is talking about. 

I prefer TivoHD and S3. But there is no consistency, especially with new users that don't even know there was/is an earlier Series 3.


----------



## Flyinace2000

Next time i see a 750gb or 1TB drive on sale i might jump on it. Thanks


----------



## richsadams

750GB is the sweet spot when it comes to $$ per gig right now. You can find them on sale at places like newegg.com for under $100 these days.


----------



## richsadams

greg_burns said:


> ...users that don't even know there was/is an earlier Series 3.


Or that _some of us_ spent $500 more to buy one when it first came out!


----------



## jlib

efreedenburg said:


> ...The mx-1 combo will run fine for about 30 minutes then goes beserk...


Can you verify the fan is spinning in the MX-1?


----------



## Flyinace2000

yeah i just bought 4 750gb drives for my file server (90 bucks each). Next hard drive sale i see i am gonna jump on it for the Tivo.


----------



## richsadams

jlib said:


> Can you verify the fan is spinning in the MX-1?


Even if the fan isn't spinning I wouldn't think that that it would heat up to the point of failure in 30 minutes. The FAP's (and some others folks are using) don't have a fan at all and although they have had a bit of a checkered past it seems that most of them are still functioning okay. The fan in my MX-1 was certainly helpful, but it's pretty light weight...makes me think that if it quit it would take quite a while to reach 55c+ degrees if ever. That's not to say that overheating couldn't be an issue, but in that short time period I'd still lean more toward a chip or connection issue. In any case, hopefully a replacement will clear up the OP's troubles.


----------



## 1283

A plastic enclosure really needs to have a working fan, especially for the Hitachi drive which uses 5 platters. Even if the drive itself works fine, a marginal USB-SATA bridge chip may not be able to take the additional heat, with or without the fan.

Personally, I prefer a fanless aluminum enclosure with a low temperature drive such as the WD GP.


----------



## efreedenburg

jlib said:


> Can you verify the fan is spinning in the MX-1?


The fan is spinning. Just got an email from Antec for an RMA. When I get the replacement mx-1 I'll post in this thread.

Free Agent Pro still working fine as it did for about a year before purchasing the mx-1.

I still would like to see someones 'Feature Tool' settings for a working Hitachi Deskstar.

I don't need a link to the 'Feature Tool Software' I need the working settings.

Thanks All
Ed


----------



## husky55

efreedenburg said:


> The fan is spinning. Just got an email from Antec for an RMA. When I get the replacement mx-1 I'll post in this thread.
> 
> Free Agent Pro still working fine as it did for about a year before purchasing the mx-1.
> 
> I still would like to see someones 'Feature Tool' settings for a working Hitachi Deskstar.
> 
> I don't need a link to the 'Feature Tool Software' I need the working settings.
> 
> Thanks All
> Ed


1. My Hitachi Deskstar is attached to my Tivo right now so I cannot post any Hitachi Feature tool settings or picture. But I did notice in the FAQs that Hitachi Deskstar were kind of noisy, so although my Hitachi was not listed in the FAQ (it's a newer model with pretty good HD tune readings but not as good as my WD6400AAKS in my desktop) I did use the feature tool to set the AAM to 128 for both the WD and the Hitachi. Tivo do not need all the speed so I am looking quietness and efficiency.

I left other settings at the factory defaults.

2. The Antec MX-1 keeps the drive cooler than many computer cases as reported in Anandtech.com in the storage forum. I believe the average HD temps in the MX-1 was between 30-37C depending on the HD and the ambient temp. So again Rich was right about the temp of the HD when the fan was not working. But the fan was working for you.

3. The fan in the MX-1 is the only noise audible when the HD AAM were set at 128 (lowest scale in the feature tool) and pushes out cool air, not warm to the touch. So I doubt if heat was the issue here.


----------



## begold

Costco is offering the WD My DVR 500 GB online for $139.00 with free shipping ... Best price I have seen


----------



## jojimailbox

Hi guys,

I saw the opening FAQ and list of recommended drives. When I saw the external drive list, I was surprised there was only 1 listed- the My Expander model from WD. 

I was wondering if there's been any success with the WD Studio Edition WDH1Q10000N or any other for that matter. I saw Amazon selling it for $239 and figure it might be a good price for not having to deal with purchasing an enclosure. I don't want to deal with making the drive internal. 

Any thoughts?

Thanks guys!

JT


----------



## husky55

@JT,

Are you talking about S3 or TivoHD?

WD My Expander DVR 500GB is the only PNP HD for TivoHD. The S3 is more adaptable to other ESata drives.

Some WD External HDs are NOT recommended because of incompatibility problem, strange but true.


----------



## jojimailbox

Hi Huksy,

sorry, that would have been helpful huh? I'm still new to writing in forums . I am talking about S3. The other 1T external drive I've seen is Seagate ST310005FPA1E3-RK. If anyone knows of successfully using an external drive (a drive that already comes with its own enclosure) please let us know 


thanks!

Edit: Sorry, I found a thread from back in Jan/Feb 08 where someone tried the Seagate external drive. Sounds like it was successful for at least the 24 hours he reported. I'm going to try messaging him to see how things are going still. Maybe this is the one?? Newegg is selling it for $229 with free shipping!

Edit#2: OMG, I thought I was going crazy. After reviewing the first page FAQ, I all of a sudden come to one where there's mention of external drives. Well, after going back to what I had found I realized there are TWO threads on drive expansion:
1. Official eSATA Drive Expansion in 9.2: FAQ + Discussion 
2. Series3 eSATA Drive Expansion in 8.x: FAQ + Discussion 

damn, I was soooo confused. LOL

OK, I think after looking at both threads, I might actually go with getting an internal drive and enclosure instead of drive and enclosure right out of the box. For one, it sounds like the former is tried and tested thoroughly. 2nd, if you go the 750 route, you can upgrade to 1T in the future and install the 750 into the Tivo or use it in a desktop computer. Simply more flexibility.

If for some reason I go the self contained external drive route, I'll let you guys know how it goes


----------



## richsadams

Fry's is currently offering the Western Digital 1TB GP drive for $169 (a very good price) for a limited time. This drive will work as an external drive for the Series3, but NOT as an internal upgrade. (It will work as an internal upgrade for TiVo HD's however.)

Amazon is offering the recommended Antec MX-1 enclosure for $38.40 (also a very good price) w/free shipping.

The combination of the two are ideal for creating an expansion drive for the Series3.


----------



## rjspring

Is that the same drive as this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136151)? I'm looking to upgrade to a TivoHD in the upcoming months and would gladly change out the internal drive for a 1TB.

I was able to find the WD AV-GP @ Amazon for $230, but read your post on the Tivo not being able to take advantage of all the features - would it be better than to go with the WD10EACS?


----------



## RS4

richsadams said:


> Fry's is currently offering the Western Digital 1TB GP drive for $169 (a very good price) for a limited time. This drive will work as an external drive for the Series3, but NOT as an internal upgrade. (It will work as an internal upgrade for TiVo HD's however.)
> 
> Amazon is offering the recommended Antec MX-1 enclosure for $38.40 (also a very good price) w/free shipping.
> 
> The combination of the two are ideal for creating an expansion drive for the Series3.


I have a Tivo HD. It looks like reading the first post that Tivo is still only supporting 500 gig for the external drive. Would I be able to just plug the Western Digital drive that you mentioned into the Antec and get 500 gig or would I have to follow the instructions in part III - 10? I'm just trying to figure out if I really have to pull things apart to take advantage of the 1TB. As you can probably tell, I hate messing with hardware. I did order the Antec you mentioned, and I now have to figure out what hdd to get.
Thanks


----------



## moxie1617

You are going to have to do it the hard way with the Tivo HD. Only the original S3 is plug and play.


----------



## greg_burns

rjspring said:


> Is that the same drive as this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136151)? I'm looking to upgrade to a TivoHD in the upcoming months and would gladly change out the internal drive for a 1TB.
> 
> I was able to find the WD AV-GP @ Amazon for $230, but read your post on the Tivo not being able to take advantage of all the features - would it be better than to go with the WD10EACS?


Buy.Com has the WD AV-GP for a little less (it has gone up since I got mine)

WD10EVCS (internal for S3 or TivoHD)

But, yeah, if you have a TivoHD you can get the less expensive WD10EACS.

Buy.com has it as well, but it is cheaper at Fry's I've heard.

WD10EACS (internal for TivoHD only)


----------



## rjspring

I've been reading around the various forums about folks who bought the cheaper WD10EACS for their TivoHD and have had problems - I'm now leaning towards paying the extra $30-$40 for the AV-GP and not having the potential headache...


----------



## greg_burns

rjspring said:


> I've been reading around the various forums about folks who bought the cheaper WD10EACS for their TivoHD and have had problems - I'm now leaning towards paying the extra $30-$40 for the AV-GP and not having the potential headache...


Really? I've not read that once in this forum that I recall.


----------



## richsadams

rjspring said:


> Is that the same drive as this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136151)? I'm looking to upgrade to a TivoHD in the upcoming months and would gladly change out the internal drive for a 1TB.
> 
> I was able to find the WD AV-GP @ Amazon for $230, but read your post on the Tivo not being able to take advantage of all the features - would it be better than to go with the WD10EACS?


Hmmm...your link is to a list of drives, so not sure which one you're looking at.

The link to this WD 1TB GP drive at Fry's will work as an internal upgrade for a TiVo HD. There's no need to spend the extra money for the WD10EACS as TiVo can't take advantage of the extra DVR features.


----------



## richsadams

RS4 said:


> I have a Tivo HD. It looks like reading the first post that Tivo is still only supporting 500 gig for the external drive. Would I be able to just plug the Western Digital drive that you mentioned into the Antec and get 500 gig or would I have to follow the instructions in part III - 10? I'm just trying to figure out if I really have to pull things apart to take advantage of the 1TB. As you can probably tell, I hate messing with hardware. I did order the Antec you mentioned, and I now have to figure out what hdd to get.
> Thanks


Yes, as Moxie says, if you want to add anything other than the approved WD My DVR Expander via plug and play you'll have to follow the FAQ instructions for either upgrading your internal hard drive (recommended) or adding an eSATA drive (or both).


----------



## richsadams

rjspring said:


> I've been reading around the various forums about folks who bought the cheaper WD10EACS for their TivoHD and have had problems - I'm now leaning towards paying the extra $30-$40 for the AV-GP and not having the potential headache...


Agree with Greg, AFAIK no one has had any issues using the WD10EACS either as an internal upgrade in the TiVo HD or using it as an expansion drive with the TiVo HD or Series3. Ours has performed flawlessly for about 10 months now.

With regard to TiVo, the only difference between the WD10EACS and the WD10EVCS/AV GP drive is the AAM setting of 128. You can easily use the Hitachi Feature Tool to set the AAM on WD10EACS to 128. TiVo isn't able to take advantage of the rest of the features of the AV GP drive.


----------



## RS4

richsadams said:


> Yes, as Moxie says, if you want to add anything other than the approved WD My DVR Expander via plug and play you'll have to follow the FAQ instructions for either upgrading your internal hard drive (recommended) or adding an eSATA drive (or both).


Thanks for your help. It's a bit scary. The Tivo HD has been out for a year now, and Tivo is still only selling the 500GB drive, yet the 750 and 1TB drives have been available for quite some time. I would have thought that Tivo would have offered more options on their site by now. So, the scary part for me is that this must be more complicated then what I'm thinking. I think I'll probably wait a while longer to see if Tivo offers anything more.


----------



## rjspring

Thanks a ton for your help, I'll keep you posted as I make the purchase of the Tivo HD (I have a Series2DT right now - needing to make the digital/HDTV jump).


----------



## rjspring

richsadams said:


> Agree with Greg, AFAIK no one has had any issues using the WD10EACS either as an internal upgrade in the TiVo HD or using it as an expansion drive with the TiVo HD or Series3. Ours has performed flawlessly for about 10 months now.
> 
> With regard to TiVo, the only difference between the WD10EACS and the WD10EVCS/AV GP drive is the AAM setting of 128. You can easily use the Hitachi Feature Tool to set the AAM on WD10EACS to 128. TiVo isn't able to take advantage of the rest of the features of the AV GP drive.


Looking through the Hitachi Feature tool, a question came to mind. Will this utility support and or detect drives connected via a SATA to USB connection? I plan on cloning the Tivo drive to the 1TB WD drive via a SATA to USB connection...


----------



## husky55

rjspring said:


> Looking through the Hitachi Feature tool, a question came to mind. Will this utility support and or detect drives connected via a SATA to USB connection? I plan on cloning the Tivo drive to the 1TB WD drive via a SATA to USB connection...


As I recall, the Hitachi Feature Tool, version 10 (latest) does not detect drive connected to USB and/or Esata port.

I used this utility on both the WD and Hitachi drives in my signature.


----------



## jojimailbox

Hey, looks like Seagate is coming out with external storage product line targeted at DVR expansion. They're taking pre-orders for 500GB and have 1T coming in the future. Will be interesting to see if it works on Tivo. Price-wise, looks like MSRP is higher compared to what you can get on the street for WD My Expander drive.

http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/products/consumer_electronics/showcase/

Seagate Showcase storage solutions provide up to 1 TB of external storage for DVRs and media centers, enabling a complete library of your favorite high-definition movies. Showcase storage solutions are plug-and-play capable for easy setup, and their stylish design fits seamlessly with existing equipment.

Key Features and Benefits
The Seagate Showcase industry leading acoustics provides quiet operation perfect for the bedroom or living room where content is most often enjoyed. 
Capacities up to 1 TB add up to 200 hours of high-definition content or 1000 hours of standard definition television to existing systems. 
Plug-and-play capability makes setup a snap. 
eSATA and USB 2.0 connections packaged in a stylish design provide a seamless fit with other AV equipment in the home. 
1-year limited warranty 
Free tech support even after warranty expires


----------



## jlib

husky55 said:


> As I recall, the Hitachi Feature Tool, version 10 (latest) does not detect drive connected to USB and/or Esata port...


There should be no problem recognizing eSATA port or any kind of SATA port (assuming that it has BIOS support on the motherboard or PCI card it is on) but, yeah, the DOS boot disk that the Hitachi Feature Tool is on does not recognise USB.


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## shrike4242

jojimailbox said:


> 1-year limited warranty


Sounds like that's a step backwards from all of their other drives being 5-year warrantied, retail or OEM.

I'd be curious if it had a DS35.3 / DS35.4 drive in it, or some other drive, like a Barracuda 7200.11 .


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## ccrider2

richsadams said:


> Agree with Greg, AFAIK no one has had any issues using the WD10EACS either as an internal upgrade in the TiVo HD or using it as an expansion drive with the TiVo HD or Series3. Ours has performed flawlessly for about 10 months now.
> 
> With regard to TiVo, the only difference between the WD10EACS and the WD10EVCS/AV GP drive is the AAM setting of 128. You can easily use the Hitachi Feature Tool to set the AAM on WD10EACS to 128. TiVo isn't able to take advantage of the rest of the features of the AV GP drive.


Hey Rich, I'm confused..... 

I've read in this and other posts, that the WD10EACS won't work as an INTERNAL drive in an S3, but the only difference between one that will (the WD10EVCS) and the WD10EACS is the AAM. If I set the AAM to 128, using the Hitachi Feature Tool, will the WD10EACS work as an internal drive on the S3?

I just bought a WD10EACS-00D6B0 at Fry's for $170. Was planning on an external box, but if it will work as an internal.....I'd rather go that way.

Thanks Much,
Chris


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## greg_burns

ccrider2 said:


> ...but the only difference between one that will (the WD10EVCS) and the WD10EACS is the AAM.


No, there are probably lots of other differences. Firmware being just one of them. The AAM setting is the only difference your Tivo (and your ears) will appreciate.

Changing the AAM setting on a WD10EACS does not a WD10EVCS make. 



ccrider2 said:


> I just bought a WD10EACS-00D6B0 at Fry's for $170. Was planning on an external box, but if it will work as an internal.....I'd rather go that way.


Only will work internally with a TivoHD, not an original S3.


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## dwit

> ccrider2 said:...I just bought a WD10EACS-00D6B0 at Fry's for $170. Was planning on an external box, but if it will work as an internal.....I'd rather go that way.





> greg-burns said:...Only will work internally with a TivoHD, not an original S3.


Actually, that number listed there appears to be different(new version?) than the one that was problematic internally for the S3, which was/is -00ZJB0. Wonder if that will now make a difference?

Maybe this "new" model number listing will turn out to be a mistake on someone's part.


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## 1283

Just bought a WD10EACS-00D6B0 drive. It has 3 platters instead of the original 4 platters. Don't know if it works as S3 internal or not.


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## dwit

c3 said:


> Just bought a WD10EACS-00D6B0 drive. It has 3 platters instead of the original 4 platters. Don't know if it works as S3 internal or not.


Where'd you buy it? How much?

Hope you don't mind my asking. Curious because I've been eyeing the Samsung Eco Green 1TB 3 platter at owc (macsales.com) for about $165 shipped. Wonder how they compare. I imagine quite similar.


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## 1283

$150 shipped from eBay, before PayPal coupon and live.com rebate.

Before you buy any Samsung drive, make sure you know how the RMA process works in case you do need it.


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## dwit

c3 said:


> $150 shipped from eBay, before PayPal coupon and live.com rebate.
> 
> Before you buy any Samsung drive, make sure you know how the RMA process works in case you do need it.


No way, read your opinions of the Samsung rma process. It's good wd has com out with their 3 platter.

I'm going to try to jump on your ebay/livesearch/pp deal if I can figure it out. I signed up for live search a week or so ago after MS took over the jellyfish cash back site. I've been looking around for just that kind of deal on a 1TB drive. Especially a 3 platter one.

Hope I can figure it out. Thanks for pointing that out.

edit: Oh well, ebay cash back doesn't seem to be working right now. Maybe layer.


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## ccrider2

c3 said:


> Just bought a WD10EACS-00D6B0 drive. It has 3 platters instead of the original 4 platters. Don't know if it works as S3 internal or not.


Let us know if you have luck with your new drive as an internal. I've got an external encloser on order to use mine as an expander, but I'd rather do the internal upgrade if possible.

I just bought a WD10EACS-00D6B0 from Fry's, but I didn't get that good a deal. ($170 verses $150) 

I assume you have an S3 TiVo. 
I've read that the WD10EACS-(something different) won't work internally in an S3, but will in an HD.....But I don't know about the WD10EACS-00D6B0.

Good Luck,
Chris


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## 1283

ccrider2 said:


> Let us know if you have luck with your new drive as an internal.


I'm not planning to use the -00D6B0 drive in the TiVo. My S3s have the original -32xxxx version. Since you already have that drive, it's easy to test if it works properly in the S3. Just create a backup and restore it to the new drive. If soft reboot works, then it's fine.


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## richsadams

c3 said:


> Just bought a WD10EACS-00D6B0 drive. It has 3 platters instead of the original 4 platters. Don't know if it works as S3 internal or not.


Thanks for the data point. Understood that you're not planning on dropping it into one of your TiVo's, but it will be interesting to find out if it does indeed work as an internal upgrade in Series3's and/or TiVo HD's. :up: Volunteers?


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## 1283

Works fine as an internal TiVo HD drive. Tested soft reboot.


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## richsadams

c3 said:


> Works fine as an internal TiVo HD drive. Tested soft reboot.


Excellent! :up: Now...any Series3 pioneers willing to give the new WD WD10EACS-00D6B0 hard drive a try as an internal upgrade out there? (Install per the normal instructions on the first post of this sticky or WinMFS and try a menu restart to see if it works?) Hmmmm?


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## dwit

To whomever may have knowledge of this:

Would Western Digital rma a drive that even though it passes all of their diagnostics, it won't operate properly in Tivo?

Just curious, as I've only had to rma one drive, a Seagate, and as I recall(iirc) their diagnostic generated a print out which had to be included with the drive. I imagine that was not really necessary though. 

Is Western's process similar? Or is not working in Tivo good enough for them to exchange?

This is not for me, just trying to help someone out.

ps: Not referring to the S3/10EACS-00ZJB0 combo.


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## 95Cobra

I have a question on adding an external e-sata (non supported hard drive) to a new Tivo series three. I read the through the original post so I hope I am not asking a question that has already been covered. If I add a non supported hard drive will I loose any functionality on recording any HD content or digitally protected content? Correct me if I am wrong but adding an external hard drive is pretty straight forward with a series 3 and won&#8217;t require any hacks but the knowledge of which hard drives have been tested per the previous posts and what the right enclosure is. Thanks in advance since I am going back and forth on whether this is the best approach versus a dedicated HTPC from Dell or HP with the addition of an ATI TV Wonder Digital Cable Tuner. I am building a dedicated PC anyways for my home theater setup so there will be an extra cost either way.


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## orimk

Replying directly to the four points:
---
Reliability - most retail eSATA products are intended for PCs and not designed for 24/7 operation. 
Noise - most retail eSATA products are not tuned for low-noise applications. Many of these products produce noise output that significantly exceeds the TiVo.
Cable compatibility - most retail eSATA products include a eSATA cable with a connector that is not sufficiently long to establish a stable and reliable connection with the TiVo.
Official TiVo support - If you have problems with the "TiVo Verified" Western Digital DVR Expander, then TiVo provides technical support. 
---

Reliability/Noise/Cable - thanks Tivo, but that's not your call to make. What I put in my living room, how noisy it is or if it fails every 5 seconds if my business.
Your job is to make sure external drives fail gracefully. THE END. It's not to monitor decibels in my living room. Disk diag devices have been around for a while. Build something in that tests throughput and/or state of the external drive. What capacity you see, that capacity you use. Tivo engineers, that is your job.
Don't make me open my Tivo and perform voodoo rituals to get another external drive to work. Chicken blood is hard to get off of electronics. You focus on writing software, I'll worry about what hardware I buy.


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## richsadams

95Cobra said:


> I have a question on adding an external e-sata (non supported hard drive) to a new Tivo series three. <snip>


 Welcome to the forum! To answer your questions:

1. Adding an expansion drive will not change any of your TiVo's functionality. It will perform exactly the same as it does today; the only difference being the added recording space. As noted, TiVo does not support anything but the approved WD My DVR Expander (which IMHO is not an issue.)

2. Adding an eSATA drive to a TiVo Series3 is straight forward. Unplug TiVo, connect the eSATA drive, turn the drive on, plug TiVo back in and follow the on-screen instructions.

3. Any of the recommended drives listed on the first post of this sticky thread have been tried by more than a few users and are working fine. Avoid those that are not listed or specifically not recommended.

4. Copy protected recordings (generally) cannot be transferred from TiVo to a PC.

If you want to build your own drive and enclosure the most recommended setup at this time is:


Antec MX-1 enclosure. Fan cooled, quiet, comes with the correct cable and is proven to work
Western Digital GP hard drive (500GB, 750GB or 1TB) or a Seagate DB-35 Series hard drive. Both are quiet, have a good warranty and are proven to work as external drives.
 If you want to use another eSATA cable, the recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable is less than $10.

Prior to upgrading the internal drive on our Series 3 we had the MX-1/Seagate combination and it worked flawlessly for about 7 months. Adding an eSATA drive is indeed a very easy way to add more real estate to your TiVo.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes! :up:


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## Rocka2

richsadams said:


> Antec MX-1 enclosure. Fan cooled, quiet, comes with the correct cable and is proven to work
> If you want to use another eSATA cable, the recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable is less than $10.:up:





Hi, I have never posted here but I have been reading for quite a while. I just recently purchased two series3 Tivos and am going to upgrade the storage. This is where I came up with my question about the Antec enclosure with correct cable. Is there a benefit to using the SIIG cable with this enclosure, or is there no difference using it or the cable included with the Antec enclosure?


----------



## moxie1617

Rocka2 said:


> Hi, I have never posted here but I have been reading for quite a while. I just recently purchased two series3 Tivos and am going to upgrade the storage. This is where I came up with my question about the Antec enclosure with correct cable. Is there a benefit to using the SIIG cable with this enclosure, or is there no difference using it or the cable included with the Antec enclosure?


I used the stock cable for three months without a problem. Then the unit was moved while house cleaning and nothing but reboots until I replaced the cable with the SIIG. It's been eleven months now since the swap and many more cleanings without any problems. If you can set it and forget it the stock cable supplied by Antec will be fine. Otherwise, it's cheap insurance to get the SIIG.


----------



## Rocka2

Thanks moxie1617.


----------



## richsadams

Like Moxie I (and many others) have used the cable that came with the Antec enclosure. I bought ours in March of '07 or so and didn't have any problems. There was a short period (about this time last year) where several people ran into problems with the cable Antec was shipping. IMO they were overwhelmed with orders, couldn't fill them fast enough and went with a cheap cable for a while. That seemed to have cleared up by last fall. IIRC there haven't been any issues since then. The SIIG cables have never had a complaint AFAIK and are a good inexpensive backup JIC.


----------



## BanditWS6

richsadams said:


> Excellent! :up: Now...any Series3 pioneers willing to give the new WD WD10EACS-00D6B0 hard drive a try as an internal upgrade out there? (Install per the normal instructions on the first post of this sticky or WinMFS and try a menu restart to see if it works?) Hmmmm?


Unfortunately I can't help assay any fears of compatibility with a Series 3, but I did just receive one of these drives that I plan to put into my TiVo HD as an internal drive replacement. I'll be attempting the upgrade tonight and will report back on how it goes.

I realize that the WD10EACS has been reported (by most users, anyway) to work fine in a TiVo HD, but as the 00D6B0 is a new revision, I figure my experience may be valuable.


----------



## dwit

BanditWS6 said:


> Unfortunately I can't help assay any fears of compatibility with a Series 3, but I did just receive one of these drives that I plan to put into my TiVo HD as an internal drive replacement. I'll be attempting the upgrade tonight and will report back on how it goes.
> 
> I realize that the WD10EACS has been reported (by most users, anyway) to work fine in a TiVo HD, but as the 00D6B0 is a new revision, I figure my experience may be valuable.


If I may ask, where did you get it? Did you know which version you would be getting beforehand? If so, how?

Thanks.


----------



## DydekD

I've just plugged in Vantec's NexStar3 with 1TB Western Digital Caviar Black WD10000LSRTL (32MB Cache, 7200RPM, perpendicular magnetic recording, dual processor) into TiVo Series3, and it seems to be working fine so far. 165HD and 1561SD recording capacity.


----------



## BanditWS6

dwit said:


> If I may ask, where did you get it? Did you know which version you would be getting beforehand? If so, how?


I picked it up from Newegg.com on Monday for $179 shipped. At the time, I did not know which revision I would be getting; Newegg doesn't have the minor revision number on their product listing.

Before I ordered, I went through this thread and saw some talk of the 00D6B0. Turned out that's what I got.

The drive is undergoing an MFScopy with WinMFS as we speak, about 20 minutes left. I set the AAM level to minimum (128) with the Hitachi Feature Tool beforehand. So far so good.


----------



## BanditWS6

Update: Got the WD10EACS-00D6B0 installed in the TiVo HD and everything looks good. System Information reports 144 HD hours and 1326 SD hours (I supersized the original drive before running MFScopy). It's also too quiet for me to hear anything -- the cooling fan in my AV receiver is louder than any noise the TiVo might be making.

CableCARD settings were carried over without incident and I had my full channel lineup about 10-20 seconds after initial boot. My recordings from the original disk copied over fine and are perfectly playable.

To celebrate the newfound space, I just scheduled 5 hours worth of Olympic opening ceremonies in HD. 

Tomorrow I should run a soft reboot test to make sure that won't cause any problems.

Edit: Soft reboot works fine, no issues.

Last night at 4:30 a.m. I noticed that in a completely dead-silent house, I can hear a tiny little high-pitched seek noise from the new drive. During the day it's inaudible.


----------



## toddc

I just got a message on my Series 3 that Seagate FreeAgent Pro is not supported and is known to cause problems. I have two of them on two series 3 (one 750GB and one 1TB) and have not had a problem for over 1 year on the 750 GB and 6 months on the 1 TB.

Has anyone gotten any messages in regard to other third party drives from TiVo?


----------



## jlib

Interesting! The message went out of its way to say it is known to cause problems? Did this message coincide with the 9.4 system update?


----------



## toddc

jlib said:


> Interesting! The message went out of its way to say it is known to cause problems? Did this message coincide with the 9.4 system update?


No, I have not gotten 9.4. I think it might be coincidental. but maybe 9.4 is more sensitive to odd brand drives?
It did specifically say that Seagate Freeagent is known to cause problems (although I have not had any).

I noticed earlier in the thread about Seagate external disks coming out designed for DVRs. Maybe TiVo has made a deal with Seagate and Seagate told them the Freeagent will not work on a DVR?

It is most odd that they singled out the Seagate Freeagent.


----------



## richsadams

BanditWS6 said:


> Update: Got the WD10EACS-00D6B0 installed in the TiVo HD and everything looks good. System Information reports 144 HD hours and 1326 SD hours
> 
> Edit: Soft reboot works fine, no issues.
> 
> Last night at 4:30 a.m. I noticed that in a completely dead-silent house, I can hear a tiny little high-pitched seek noise from the new drive. During the day it's inaudible.


Excellent reporting! :up: It's good to know that the WD10EACS-00D6B0 works fine in a TiVo HD. (Now where are all of the Series3 folks?   )

No idea what the noise would be. Is it seeking at the time or just doing normal duty?


----------



## richsadams

toddc said:


> I just got a message on my Series 3 that Seagate FreeAgent Pro is not supported and is known to cause problems. I have two of them on two series 3 (one 750GB and one 1TB) and have not had a problem for over 1 year on the 750 GB and 6 months on the 1 TB.
> 
> Has anyone gotten any messages in regard to other third party drives from TiVo?


Wow! Big Brother is alive and well!  That is indeed interesting that they singled out your eSATA drive(s). Did the message show up on both of your TiVo's or just one...and if just one, was it the one with the 750GB or the 1TB? Did you happen to keep the message and can you post a screen shot?

Initially there were a number of reports of problems with FAP's but IIRC they mostly boiled down to the supplied eSATA cable issues (bad connectors), not so much the drives themselves (although a few failed...overheating I think). Did you use the stock eSATA cable or one of those recommended like the SIIG?

In any case, it's surprising, kind of alarming in my book, that TiVo is sending out warnings for specific drives. Makes you wonder if they are just doing a little CYA or if it's an ominous sign...something darker this way comes?


----------



## V7Goose

I can confirm there are real problems with the newer software and at least some of the Freeagent Pro drives. I have had a LOT of them (intermittent freezes, pixelation, macroblocking, and spontaneous reboots), and I have seen reports from several other users experiencing similar problems with the same drives. The problems are not continuous, and they seem to only happen on HD recordings. You never know when you will see them.

I have had my Freeagent Pro for over a year with no problems until recently. I am looking for a replacement now. Good luck.


----------



## richsadams

V7Goose said:


> I can confirm there are real problems with the newer software and at least some of the Freeagent Pro drives. I have had a LOT of them (intermittent freezes, pixelation, macroblocking, and spontaneous reboots), and I have seen reports from several other users experiencing similar problems with the same drives. The problems are not continuous, and they seem to only happen on HD recordings. You never know when you will see them.
> 
> I have had my Freeagent Pro for over a year with no problems until recently. I am looking for a replacement now. Good luck.


So your TiVo has upgraded to v9.4x correct? And this is the first time you've had problems?

Not to question your conclusion (well, I guess it is) but what makes you think/assume the issues are due to the FAP? Can you link to the posts from the other FAP owners that are having problems due to the latest upgrade?

Upgrades are notorious for causing a certain percentages of TiVo's to go crazy or die all together. Some are fixed with a hard reboot and others need more TLC, still others just die. (Replacing the hard drive seems to be the cure.)

So far v9.4x seems to have caused at least a few people problems...people with stock TiVo's, no eSATA drives, etc. Just wondering if it might be something else (my guess) or if indeed it has something to do with the FAP.


----------



## V7Goose

Sorry, I cannot provide any more detailed information about how I know it is the new software. But I do. I worked with TiVo on the problems and was one of several people who helped them focus in on the FAP as the cause. TiVo finally told me to quit reporting the video issues until I removed the FAP! My point is that this is more than just TiVo not supporting the FAP or even wishing we did not use it. They believe it is a specific cause of the problems. Hope that helps, but I can't share any more info on it.


----------



## richsadams

V7Goose said:


> Sorry, I cannot provide any more detailed information about how I know it is the new software. But I do. I worked with TiVo on the problems and was one of several people who helped them focus in on the FAP as the cause. TiVo finally told me to quit reporting the video issues until I removed the FAP! My point is that this is more than just TiVo not supporting the FAP or even wishing we did not use it. They believe it is a specific cause of the problems. Hope that helps, but I can't share any more info on it.


Understood and thanks. So if you (or someone in your situation) were to have problems and were to remove their FAP, things should return to normal? TIA. :up:


----------



## V7Goose

richsadams said:


> Understood and thanks. So if you (or someone in your situation) were to have problems and were to remove their FAP, things should return to normal? TIA. :up:


Yes, removing the FAP should clear it all up. I have not tried this yet, as I just have too many things recorded that I am not willing to loose yet (that is the downside of adding 750GB!). I am feverishly trying to work down through the stuff and get it transfered to DVD (the recordings that play well enough) so that I can pull the external drive and test the stock S3 before going to a different eSATA unit.


----------



## richsadams

Great...thanks very much...very good info! :up:


----------



## greg_burns

From the TivoHD freeze thread...



TiVoJerry said:


> In very recent testing, multiple Seagate FreeAgent Pro 750gb drives were determined to write to disk slowly enough to cause performance problems. The drive also appears to have some type of basic incompatability with the SATA controller (throws out a lot of drive status CRC errors). This could be caused by a bad or flaky cable, or even electromagnetic noise on one or two drives, but we saw it across the board. Those problems have been there since day one but may not have been particularly noticeable to the customer.
> 
> If a problem arises during startup, the external drive might be detected as unsupported or not be recognized at all. Multiple restarts would likely get around the incompatability, but YMMV.


----------



## richsadams

greg_burns said:


> From the TivoHD freeze thread...


Ah, good stuff. I haven't visited that thread for a while. Thanks for that! :up:


----------



## alyssa

Thanks guys
I completed an internal upgrade from a stock 250 to a 750GB unit a half hour ago. Everything went smoothly thanks to the most excellent directions by bkdtv and WinMSF. My S3 was already on 9.4. The 750GB drive I decided on was a DB35.3 ST3750840SCE. It's a trifle louder than I thought it was gonna be but no biggie. I might be hearing the fan. I"m gonna let it run for a bit & see if my husband complains.

eta; It took just under two hours to transfer the full 250GB to the 750drive. I had the drives directly connected to the SATA ports on my mobo.


----------



## ThAbtO

alyssa said:


> Thanks guys
> I completed an internal upgrade from a stock 250 to a 750GB unit a half hour ago. Everything went smoothly thanks to the most excellent directions by bkdtv and WinMSF. My S3 was already on 9.4. The 750GB drive I decided on was a DB35.3 ST3750840SCE. It's a trifle louder than I thought it was gonna be but no biggie. I might be hearing the fan. I"m gonna let it run for a bit & see if my husband complains.
> 
> eta; It took just under two hours to transfer the full 250GB to the 750drive. I had the drives directly connected to the SATA ports on my mobo.


Just curious to how many hrs you have now.


----------



## richsadams

alyssa said:


> Thanks guys
> I completed an internal upgrade from a stock 250 to a 750GB unit a half hour ago. <snip>


Well done! Congratulations and enjoy! :up:


----------



## alyssa

ThAbtO said:


> Just curious to how many hrs you have now.


Either 93 or 93 hours of HD
eta-actually I ment to type "93 0r 9*8*
The only things I would add to the directions is a bit about needing a long T10 wrench & a T15. the advanced auto parts # is nice but we don't have one around here so I picked something at walmart and of course it was too short.
But as roadblocks go that was a very small one.


----------



## SAH2

greg_burns said:


> From the TivoHD freeze thread...


I got the same message last night - I am still on 9.3. I have had the FAP 750 since the day the "unnoficial" esata connection was published. (it seems like at least a year). I have not had any problems.

Does this mean that when I get 9.4 I can expect to have problems? If that is the case it seems like the upgrade causing the problem, rather than the drive.


----------



## greg_burns

SAH2 said:


> Does this mean that when I get 9.4 I can expect to have problems? If that is the case it seems like the upgrade causing the problem, rather than the drive.


From TivoJerry's post I it sounds like (some?) FAPs have been problematic all along. I assume 9.4 itself would run just as well as 9.3, but they are using this upgrade to "make it known" there are issues with FAPs. (Presumably to cut down on possible future support calls.)

That is all speculation on my part. There seems to be lots of people posting here saying their FAPs seemingly work just fine since day 1.


----------



## SeattleFred

I've had an FAP 750 running for several months, trouble-free. I'm still on 9.3. I got the message on 7/31/08.


----------



## sbessel

I have a S3 with the dreaded FAP eSATA drive, which has been running without issue for over 6 months...

My questions are:


If I pull the drive will I just loose recordings? 
This I can handle, season passes and all my setup data would be bad.
Can I still put in 'my choice' of eSata drives (yes besides the FAP)
I have a 1tb Samsung and Antec case queued up and ready to go.
I thought we lost this option a while back, but I have been out of the loop.
Is this swap a long involved process or is it in the menu like I had before?

My wife's unit with a 1tb Hitachi and Antec case received the 9.4, but of 
course now she is missing some HD channels.

Thanks!


----------



## greg_burns

sbessel said:


> If I pull the drive will I just loose recordings?


Yes, just recordings.



sbessel said:


> Can I still put in 'my choice' of eSata drives (yes besides the FAP)
> I have a 1tb Samsung and Antec case queued up and ready to go.
> I thought we lost this option a while back, but I have been out of the loop.


Yes. The KickStart is no longer an option, but is not needed with the menu option.



sbessel said:


> Is this swap a long involved process or is it in the menu like I had before?


Should be Plug-N-Pray (ie use the menu) on an original S3 with the original 250GB internal drive. AFAIK. (If you have upgraded the internal drive, then you must marry the drive using WinMFS).


----------



## richsadams

SeattleFred said:


> I've had an FAP 750 running for several months, trouble-free. I'm still on 9.3. I got the message on 7/31/08.


We'll stay tuned. Let us know if you run into any issues w/v9.4 will you? According to TiVoJerry, it's the FAP 750's that are problematic, but no mention of the 500GB or 1TB models. TIA!


----------



## BanditWS6

richsadams said:


> Excellent reporting! :up: It's good to know that the WD10EACS-00D6B0 works fine in a TiVo HD. (Now where are all of the Series3 folks?   )
> 
> No idea what the noise would be. Is it seeking at the time or just doing normal duty?


As to the drive noise, it's so minimal as to be practically nonexistent, but even so, I don't recall hearing it since. It could be that the TiVo was doing a network connection and loading info at the time. I haven't been cognizant of any drive noise at any time since.

Got the 9.4 software update the day after I got the new drive installed, it loaded up very quickly (about 30 minutes or less) and there was no slowdown in UI response afterwards, as there often is after a service update.

Very pleased with the WD10EACS.


----------



## richsadams

BanditWS6 said:


> As to the drive noise, it's so minimal as to be practically nonexistent, but even so, I don't recall hearing it since. It could be that the TiVo was doing a network connection and loading info at the time. I haven't been cognizant of any drive noise at any time since.
> 
> Got the 9.4 software update the day after I got the new drive installed, it loaded up very quickly (about 30 minutes or less) and there was no slowdown in UI response afterwards, as there often is after a service update.
> 
> Very pleased with the WD10EACS.


Maybe that sound you heard were the hamsters singing for joy that they were powering a hard drive in a TiVo instead of some monster server somewhere! 

Now that you mention it, the UI was as quick or quicker after v9.4 installed as well...not a bit of slowdown. Nice TiVo! :up:

Glad the drive is doing well. Now put your seat back in the reclining position, drop your tray table in your lap, order the beverage of your choice, relax and enjoy!


----------



## profxyz

Well, this is the first time I`ve actually posted on this forum,
but I`ve been a regular reader.

Listen to this.

I`ve had a series 3 for about 10 months now, I`ve had a
Samsung 1tb ext hd. hooked up for about 3 mo., with no
problems. Yet. I recently received the 9.4 upgrade with no
problems. Then I recieved it again, and again. So far,
the software has d/l and sucessfully installed 3 times into
my series 3.

All the same rev number.

I called Tivo cust serv today and was met with a position
from the tech that altho the download problem may not be
caused by my ext hd, since it was not a " supported "
model, he couldn`t continue to help me.

The software shows no problems via the tivo functionality.
The network connection log shows succeded for the download.

Tivo just keeps sending me the same download.

And tivo tech support either does or doesn`t think my perfectly
good samsung may or may not be a problem.

So, I am disconnecting the samsung and waiting for tivo to send me
their summer upgrade again.

Altho, the software runs fine and I like the changes.

When tivo gets it`s act together, in a few weeks I`ll hook up
my samsung again.

Prof.


----------



## richsadams

profxyz said:


> Well, this is the first time I`ve actually posted on this forum, but I`ve been a regular reader.
> 
> Listen to this.
> 
> I`ve had a series 3 for about 10 months now, I`ve had a Samsung 1tb ext hd. hooked up for about 3 mo., with no problems. Yet. I recently received the 9.4 upgrade with no problems. Then I recieved it again, and again. So far, the software has d/l and sucessfully installed 3 times into my series 3. <snip>


Welcome to the forum (well, sort of)...although under not-so-great circumstances. You have an interesting situation. Lousy that the TiVo rep decided not to help you, although I guess I don't blame them in some cases. But the repeated downloading of an upgrade has been around for years and those cases had nothing to do with an expansion drive. It sounds like you went through the proper divorce procedures if TiVo is functioning normally. Guess you lost most of your recordings. 

If the software continues to download, it hasn't been successful in TiVo's eyes. The d/l program has a required method whereby it confirms that everything is in place and operating properly called checksum validation. If that doesn't happen TiVo will try it again until it's successful.

So does the "Last Status" line on the system info screen (or the network screen) say "Pending Restart"? If it does say "Pending Restart" you can cause it to install immediately with a reboot (instead of waiting until 2 a.m. when it would normally happen). Once it's done it's thing, check to see if it still says "Pending Restart". If it does, there's a problem...likely with your internal hard drive and one or both of the root partitions where the O/S software resides. Another call to TiVo would be in order.

If not and the screens show the normal "Succeeded" on the "Last Status" line the d/l should be successful/final IMO and it should be safe to connect your eSATA drive once more.

Thanks for the post. I know a lot of us would be interested in how this turns out.


----------



## naclone

one other data point on the FAP 750.

i restarted my S3 early last week for something unrelated and when it came back on a weird green screen announced that my external drive had not been recognized and to press enter if i wanted to stop using it.

my heart sank and i quickly unplugged the unit hoping that the connection to the drive hadn't been irreparably separated.

i waited a few moments and plugged the unit back in and got the same green screen. my heart sank further. but like an insane person expecting a different result, unplugged the unit again. this time i unplugged the FAP as well disconnected everything and reconnected. 

this time when i powered on the S3 everything worked normally and I wrote it off as a freak anomaly as I had never had an issue with the FAP since installing it nearly a year ago.

then two days later on the 31st I got the FAP 750 warning message the other folks have described. 

I'm still running 9.3 btw.

Can anybody recommend any ideas for salvaging any of my recorded content should i decide to pre-emptively swap out the FAP?

I suppose I could get a new drive for the S3, connect that to my PC, transfer all my recordings to the PC on that drive, then disconnect the FAP, connect it to the PC and move everything from the new drive to the FAP, install the new drive on the S3 and then transfer everything back. would there be an easier way?


----------



## greg_burns

naclone said:


> I suppose I could get a new drive for the S3, connect that to my PC, transfer all my recordings to the PC on that drive, then disconnect the FAP, connect it to the PC and move everything from the new drive to the FAP, install the new drive on the S3 and then transfer everything back. would there be an easier way?


Couldn't you buy the same size drive and do a bit copy to it (using linux dd copy command like here). Put the new drive in the FAP's enclosure (or a new Antec MX-1). Has anyone ever tried that? Would it work?


----------



## jlib

Which also begs the question: Is the problem with the drive itself or with the enclosure circuitry? Most likely the later, in which case just moving the current drive to a different enclosure would work. Just speculating at this point, though...


----------



## bugzod

richsadams said:


> 4. Copy protected recordings (generally) cannot be transferred from TiVo to a PC.
> 
> I just want to understand clearly what if any transfer issues would be caused by adding the DVR Expander. In bkdtv's first post in this thread, specifically point #18, he said *"Can I view the recordings on the eSATA drive with my PC?
> 
> No. All recordings are encrypted, as required by the CableLabs' licensing agreement (page 30)."*
> 
> I use a Comcast M stream cablecard, but only my premium programs are copy protected. Will this still be the case or will none of the programs be able to be transferred to the PC for editing, etc?


----------



## richsadams

No worries. What bkdtv was referring to was a question about the ability to _disconnect_ an eSATA drive from TiVo, connect it to a PC and watch (or transfer) recordings that were ostensibly on the external drive...to which the answer is "no".

After properly connecting an external hard drive to TiVo everything will remain just as it is now. Adding an expansion drive for all intents and purposes simply creates a single, larger drive. Any program that is transferrable now will continue to be transferable (unless of course the program's owner decides otherwise at some point). So feel free to add an eSATA drive and carry on as usual, plus enjoy the additional recording space. :up:


----------



## DocNo

toddc said:


> I just got a message on my Series 3 that Seagate FreeAgent Pro is not supported and is known to cause problems.


I got it too 

I'll be consolidating my FAP and internal drive onto a new 1 GB internal hard drive. I may also add another 1 GB external too - still on the fence about that.

EDIT: I may also fabricate a bracket like Thom did and put both drives inside - then again I had so many problems with my S1 and S2's overheating with dual drives I'll probably just stick with one internal and one external.


----------



## jlb

okee dokee......I was thinking about an internal upgrade, but as we inch closer to the fall season, I may just do the Expander. Any "reasonable" rumors regarding a 1TB expander? Also, I have seen the prices around $130. Any particularly good prices/places people have recently ordered from?


----------



## sbessel

Are there any options to copy the data off an existing external drive to a new external?

I have seen links to the MFSTools site that shows how to upgrade internal and such, but I would like to find a way to upgrade just my external without touching my internal.

I have a lot of content on my system now, and since 98.7% is protected I can't copy it off... (I could really see this as a needed Tivo Desktop option, backup content to PC)

thanks...


----------



## naclone

well i just got a random restart followed by green screen with the following message:

The DVR has detected a serious problem and is now attempting to fix it. This will take about three hours. Please do not unplug or restert the DVR.

No idea if this is related to the FAP 750, the 9.4 or both.


----------



## alyssa

sbessel said:


> Are there any options to copy the data off an existing external drive to a new external?


Why can't you use WinMSF & copy the drive, just like people have done with the internal drive?

I really don't understand the specifics of what WinMSF does but if it formats a new drive & simply copies the information from one drive to the other then, why not? I know I'm missing something basic but I'm curious as to if it could be done this way.


----------



## dwit

alyssa said:


> Why can't you use WinMSF & copy the drive, just like people have done with the internal drive?
> 
> I really don't understand the specifics of what WinMSF does but if it formats a new drive & simply copies the information from one drive to the other then, why not? I know I'm missing something basic but I'm curious as to if it could be done this way.


I *don't **believe *there is an option for what the poster wants to do(copy only external drive) using the winmfs program, or any of the other mfs tools.


----------



## MichaelTV

I tried to use WinMFS last night to upgrade my TiVo HD. I had two empty SATA ports on my PC board, so I hooked up both the current and new drives (I used the SATA cable for the DVD for one of them). I downloaded and installed the latest WinMFS. Ran WinMFS as an Administrator (I have Vista Home), and it wouldn't recognize either of my two drives.

Obviously, I'm in need of some help to get things started. My gymnastics loving 9 year old daughter is applying as much pressure as possible to get it upgraded in time for the Olympics.

Thx!


----------



## greg_burns

MichaelTV said:


> Ran WinMFS as an Administrator (I have Vista Home), and it wouldn't recognize either of my two drives.


When you say ran as an administrator, you literally right-clicked on the .exe and said "Run As Administrator"? Because that sounds just like what happens when you don't...

Being logged in with an account with administrative rights isn't enough any more with Vista.


----------



## MichaelTV

greg_burns said:


> When you say ran as an administrator, you literally right-clicked on the .exe and said "Run As Administrator"?


Yes, that is correct. RMB, clicked "Run as Administrator".

FWIW, I also have full Admin rights.


----------



## greg_burns

MichaelTV said:


> Yes, that is correct. RMB, clicked "Run as Administrator".
> 
> FWIW, I also have full Admin rights.


Some motherboards you have to enable the SATA port from the BIOS. (Some are autodetect, I've seen both lately). Doesn't explain why it didn't at least see your DVD one (have to assume it was already enabled.)


----------



## MichaelTV

greg_burns said:


> Some motherboards you have to enable the SATA port from the BIOS. (Some are autodetect, I've seen both lately). Doesn't explain why it didn't at least see your DVD one (have to assume it was already enabled.)


I used the DVD SATA cable, but plugged it into a different port on the board.

If I reboot...enter the BIOS...'enable' the two unused ports, is Windows going to try to mount the drive and assign letters, or just make the ports 'active'? If I enable the ports/drives, is there any concern on Windows messing up my existing TiVo drive?


----------



## greg_burns

MichaelTV said:


> I used the DVD SATA cable, but plugged it into a different port on the board.
> 
> If I reboot...enter the BIOS...'enable' the two unused ports, is Windows going to try to mount the drive and assign letters, or just make the ports 'active'? If I enable the ports/drives, is there any concern on Windows messing up my existing TiVo drive?


No, windows will not mount the drives itself. You'd have to go into Disk Management and tell it to do that. I think booting into Windows and having it overwrite the boot record was a Windows 2000 problem. Not XP or Vista. (I've personally tested that on XP just to see for myself.)

In fact, WinMFS depends on it not mounting the drives. You should be ok. Hopefully enabling in the BIOS is all that's wrong.


----------



## MichaelTV

greg_burns said:


> Hopefully enabling in the BIOS is all that's wrong.


Hopefully, I'll have time to try this out tonight. The Olympics are coming fast! Thanks for your help. I'll let you know how it goes.


----------



## jbrennan

naclone said:


> well i just got a random restart followed by green screen with the following message:
> 
> The DVR has detected a serious problem and is now attempting to fix it. This will take about three hours. Please do not unplug or restert the DVR.
> 
> No idea if this is related to the FAP 750, the 9.4 or both.


Naclone, are you now running 9.4 on the Tivo with the FAP? Did 9.4 install through the regular nightly connect, did you install 9.4 yourself from another Tivo, or did you sign a non disclosure agreement with Tivo regarding anything to do with testing 9.4?

Thanks


----------



## naclone

nope. i'm still on 9.3.

i made that post when the green screen was still doing it's thing so there was no way to check what software i was running so i posited a guess i had gotten upgraded and perhaps that caused the failure.

the greensceen only ran for a couple minutes then it restarted and everything was normal.


----------



## MichaelTV

greg_burns said:


> Hopefully enabling in the BIOS is all that's wrong.





MichaelTV said:


> Hopefully, I'll have time to try this out tonight. The Olympics are coming fast! Thanks for your help. I'll let you know how it goes.


All I had to do was enable the SATA ports in the BIOS. Worked like a champ! I put a WD10000CSRTL in my TiVO HD...144 hours of HD!

Thanks for your help.


----------



## DHR

Hi all, this is just to add more data to the FAP 750 discussion. My Series3 started acting strange a couple months ago (I've had it for over a year)- it started with garbled sound, then pixelation in images and now I'm getting some reboots. I was on software release 9.3 until today and 9.4 installed successfully. I've been deleting old material from the TIVO but it's too early to say if that has helped the situation.

I'm in the process of downloading the SD programing to my PC for future upload and it looks like I'll have to visit Best Buy and invest in a WD DVD Expander to ensure a good Olympic experience.

Thanks everyone for your comments. Too bad TIVO's official site doesn't have any mention of Seagate FAP drives even after the broadcast warning.


----------



## M Tyson

kuokuo said:


> okay, I have the 1TB maxtor in a kingwin esata enclosure hooked up to the tivo hd with the seagate 500gb. We'll see how it goes...


Did this configuration work? I'm thinking of trying the same config.


----------



## alyssa

dwit said:


> I *don't **believe *there is an option for what the poster wants to do(copy only external drive) using the winmfs program, or any of the other mfs tools.


I was thinking sbessel might use Tools -> Mfscopy

But this would be the best place to ask the question;
http://www.mfslive.org/forums/index.php?sid=a674960e616784ba7e04ab97d1ca0eac


----------



## sbessel

alyssa said:


> I was thinking sbessel might use Tools -> Mfscopy
> 
> But this would be the best place to ask the question;
> http://www.mfslive.org/forums/index.php?sid=a674960e616784ba7e04ab97d1ca0eac


I searched over there, and it seems I can use dd to copy it, but it appears what I am asking is not a common question... strange... but I guess most people upgrade and stay.


----------



## ThAbtO

DHR said:


> I'm in the process of downloading the SD programing to my PC for future upload and it looks like I'll have to visit Best Buy and invest in a WD DVD Expander to ensure a good Olympic experience.


Do you have a Costco membership ($50, if not)? I saw the Costco Expander $139.99 (ship/handling included), same price at the stores.


----------



## richsadams

sbessel said:


> I searched over there, and it seems I can use dd to copy it, but it appears what I am asking is not a common question... strange... but I guess most people upgrade and stay.


You should be able to use dd to make an exact copy and IIRC a couple of folks have done that successfully. But AFAIK that would only work on a like-for-like situation. I don't recall anyone trying to use it to switch/upgrade their eSATA drive to another model/size, etc. Once the eSATA drive is married to the internal drive it would be looking for the same drive as TiVo recognizes drives by the model number. It's worth a try, but I wouldn't get my hopes up. Let us know how it goes if you give it a shot. :up:


----------



## toddc

I got 9.4 last night and my 750 MB FAP is working just fine.
Nice new additions to the software.
Interesting that I have 5 TiVos and the one with the 750 MB FAP is the only one with 9.4 so far.

So much for all the worrying.


----------



## donaudio

Boy, did I have a scare today. Last night Tivo downloaded 9.4 to my Series 3 with a FAP 750. This has been working perfectly for over one year. The screen said Tivo did not recognize my external drive so I did a hard start twice and got the same message. I was about to ditch the FAP but then I thought I would unplug both the Tivo and FAP. The FAP was plugged in first and then the Tivo. Voila, it booted up correctly. Hope this helps anyone who is having this kind of trouble. Don


----------



## SeattleFred

SeattleFred said:


> I've had an FAP 750 running for several months, trouble-free. I'm still on 9.3. I got the message on 7/31/08.





richsadams said:


> We'll stay tuned. Let us know if you run into any issues w/v9.4 will you? According to TiVoJerry, it's the FAP 750's that are problematic, but no mention of the 500GB or 1TB models. TIA!


Yup, my S3 got 9.4 sometime in the last 24 hours, too. My FAP 750 continues to work like a champ. Keeping my fingers crossed


----------



## SeattleFred

Hmm&#8230;perhaps I spoke too soon. Tonight, I had the S3 recording the Olympics Opening Ceremony. We started watching it, from the beginning, about an hour or so after the program began, zipping thru the ads as usual. After an hour or so, we moved on to other activities, but let the recording continue. Shortly after the recording finished, I selected the recorded program from the Now Playing List so that we could resume watching where we had left off.

To my surprise, clicking the Play button resulted in :

*Error playing a recording*
The Tivo Digital Media Recorder was not able to record this program because there was no video signal on the channel. You may have been trying to record on a channel that you don't receive.​
I had never seen this message before and the channel in question (105 on Seattle Comcast) has always been reliable-not to mention that we had been watching the dang show without any problem.

I don't see any connection, other than the timeline, between the FAP warning and the contents of this error message. Could it be the 9.4 update?


----------



## naclone

SeattleFred said:


> To my surprise, clicking the Play button resulted in :
> 
> *Error playing a recording*
> The Tivo Digital Media Recorder was not able to record this program because there was no video signal on the channel. You may have been trying to record on a channel that you don't receive.​
> I don't see any connection, other than the timeline, between the FAP warning and the contents of this error message. Could it be the 9.4 update?


i got this too last night on a recording of a baseball game. first time i'd ever seen it.

getting some "external drive not recognized" errors this morning as well.

i don't want to get all tinfoil hat, but i just can't imagine it's a total coincidence that so many people who have run their FAP 750 for over a year without incident are now experiencing these problems within hours of getting an ominous warning from TiVo.

As I type, i've just gotten the "Serious Problem" green screen for the second time in a week.

something very very curious about the timing of all this if you ask me.


----------



## husky55

9.4 seems to be a solid upgrade so far. But I read with complete bafflement about the FAP problem some seem to be having. Particularly when the FAP worked OK for over a year and then boom not working anymore with error message not seen before.

My Hitachi 750 with the Antec MX1 seem OK but other have spoken too soon so I will keep an eye on it and report any problem seen.

I will test the Olympic Opening Ceremony later on today, having seen it last night.


----------



## thomaslue

I am still shopping for a 1TB drive to go into my Antec MX-1.
I understand from FAQ #27 that the new version of the WD10EACS is not intended for DVRs:



> The retail Western Digital WD10EACS was removed from this list because the
> latest version of that product no longer includes the WD10EACS-32ZJB0.
> The retail WD10EACS now includes the WD10EACS-00ZJB0 which will not
> work as an internal drive upgrade to the Tivo Series3. If you want the
> 1TB Western Digital drive, you should buy the new WD10EVCS instead.


But, other than the internal drive upgrade issue on the Tivo Series3, what is there not to like about this drive?


----------



## 1283

thomaslue said:


> But, other than the internal drive upgrade issue on the Tivo Series3, what is there not to like about this drive?


Nothing. WD10EACS is the only 1TB drive I would buy at this time, for both TiVo and PC applications.


----------



## SeattleFred

SeattleFred said:


> Hmmperhaps I spoke too soon. Tonight, I had the S3 recording the Olympics Opening Ceremony. We started watching it, from the beginning, about an hour or so after the program began, zipping thru the ads as usual. After an hour or so, we moved on to other activities, but let the recording continue. Shortly after the recording finished, I selected the recorded program from the Now Playing List so that we could resume watching where we had left off.
> 
> To my surprise, clicking the Play button resulted in :
> 
> *Error playing a recording*
> The Tivo Digital Media Recorder was not able to record this program because there was no video signal on the channel. You may have been trying to record on a channel that you don't receive.​
> I had never seen this message before and the channel in question (105 on Seattle Comcast) has always been reliablenot to mention that we had been watching the dang show without any problem.
> 
> I don't see any connection, other than the timeline, between the FAP warning and the contents of this error message. Could it be the 9.4 update?


I'm glad to report that there have been no further problems with my S3, 9.4 and FAP750.


----------



## richsadams

SeattleFred said:


> I'm glad to report that there have been no further problems with my S3, 9.4 and FAP750.


Great news! Thanks for keeping us up to date. :up:


----------



## Agent86

I just ordered a WD10EACS for internal use in my TiVo HD. The EACS was cheaper then the EVCS, and it appears to be about the same (or better) noise wise if I adjust the AAM with the Hitachi tool.

Am I going to regret that? 

It looks like I *should* be fine...


----------



## dwit

Agent86 said:


> I just ordered a WD10EACS for internal use in my TiVo HD. The EACS was cheaper then the EVCS, and it appears to be about the same (or better) noise wise if I adjust the AAM with the Hitachi tool.
> 
> Am I going to regret that?
> 
> It looks like I *should* be fine...


Perfect for the Tivo HD. If you get the new 3 platter version, all the better. BTW, already posted here as working in the Tivo HD.

Please post the extended model number you receive and from where purchased.

Newest 3 platter version, model# WD10EACS-*006DBO*.

"Older" 4 platter model# WD10EACS-*00ZJB0*.


----------



## V7Goose

I finally divorced the FAP750 from my S3 - ran extended error tests on it and found many bad sectors. Clearly at least SOME of my problems were related to a bad drive, not the software!

On a high note - I just completed the replacement of my internal drive with a WD10EVCS 1TB and married it with an Apricorn 1TB DVR Xpander. Whole thing went off without a hitch using WinMFS 9.1. Booted up great the first time. I now have a 2TB S3 with 265 hrs of HD/2512 SD! 

I chose not to use the Supersize option, since it said it was new, didn't really explain what it did, and I figured I didn't need to risk it for only an additional 13 hours HD per terabyte.


----------



## richsadams

V7Goose said:


> I finally divorced the FAP750 from my S3 - ran extended error tests on it and found many bad sectors. Clearly at least SOME of my problems were related to a bad drive, not the software!
> 
> On a high note - I just completed the replacement of my internal drive with a WD10EVCS 1TB and married it with an Apricorn 1TB DVR Xpander. Whole thing went off without a hitch using WinMFS 9.1. Booted up great the first time. I now have a 2TB S3 with 265 hrs of HD/2512 SD!
> 
> I chose not to use the Supersize option, since it said it was new, didn't really explain what it did, and I figured I didn't need to risk it for only an additional 13 hours HD per terabyte.


 Thanks for continuing to keep us posted and congrats on the upgrade! I've used the Apricorn DVR Xpander and it worked flawlessly. :up: Even though it has a fan it did get pretty hot, but never once caused any issues.

MFS Supersize simply frees up extra space reserved for storing tivoclips; the advertising videos that are downloaded. You can turn it on and gain a little more space any time...not that you'll probably be needing it!


----------



## flar

jlib said:


> Western Digital does have an AV drive that is bigger than 500GB, by the way.
> 
> There is no problem using a bare so-called AV or DVR drive in a PC. They are simply capable of the additional ATA 7 Streaming Command Set (including the urgent bit). If you send them regular read/write commands they respond like a regular drive as far as error recovery goes. This is why all these drives (Maxtor QuickView, Seagate DB35, and Hitachi CinemaStar) were all all originally considered OEM drives by their manufacturers. They were intended to be sold to companies to design and build a DVR or other consumer electronics device around. They are only of advantage to a host that makes use of the specific streaming commands. The TiVo does not use the Streaming Command Set and treats the drive like any other.
> 
> Some unscrupulous retailers started reselling them at premium prices on the secondary market boasting of their DVR performance (the 1TB CinemaStar initially had a several hundred dollar premium over the functionally equivalent DeskStar when there was only one vendor reselling OEM stock). They do have the advantage of already having the head seek performance acoustically detuned but most regular drives (save Seagate) can have that done manually with no price premium.
> 
> There is no technical reason that drives couldn't default to a lazy error recovery (as with the RAID edition of some drives) in response to normal commands. A RAID would always want the non-aggressive error recovery since the RAID controller itself is the arbiter of error correction not the drive and there is no standard RAID command set that could be used. A DVR drive on the other hand sometimes needs full error recovery capability for operating system and database issues. Hence the optional Streaming Command Set standard that DVR manufacturers and drive manufacturers have agreed to. Seagate even says they can deliver the AV drive with whatever error recovery level the OEM requires as default or just use the standardized Streaming Command Set to activate it as needed. Hitachi has now gone one step further than the AT 7 standard with their AV-Zoning on the newest CinemaStars (unfortunately, that is non-standard).
> 
> The bottom line is that the future TiVo Series 4 four tuner model  may have some use for the streaming functionality of a AV drive (if designed to capitalize on it) but current TiVo models don't make any use of it.
> 
> Here's some light reading  for anyone interested in the subject: See Section 4.17 Streaming Feature Set of the AT Attachment with Packet Interface - 7 Volume 1 - Register Delivered Command Set, Logical Register Set (ATA/ATAPI-7 V1) document.


Hi jlib, many thanks for posting all of this information. I was curious about another peculiarity of the DB35 series, though...

On page 31 of Seagate's Product Manual for the DB35 drives, they mention responding to a command called "Read DMA without retries (C9h)" which is not listed in the streaming command set (in fact it is listed as "obsolete" in the spec you link to above). But it sounds like it would be perfect for TiVo's needs as a conditional replacement for the regular "read DMA" command without having to implement support for a whole new command/feature set. There are other similar "without retries" variants of some of the other read commands as well.


----------



## jlib

flar said:


> On page 31 of Seagate's Product Manual for the DB35 drives, they mention responding to a command called "Read DMA without retries (C9h)" which is not listed in the streaming command set (in fact it is listed as "obsolete" in the spec you link to above). But it sounds like it would be perfect for TiVo's needs as a conditional replacement for the regular "read DMA" command without having to implement support for a whole new command/feature set. There are other similar "without retries" variants of some of the other read commands as well.


I can only hazard a guess and that is was a ATA 1 (when it first appeared) single-word DMA era relic, a performance enhancement that was no longer needed with the transition from ATA 4 (40 pin cable, Ultra DMA 2, 33.3 MB/s) to ATA 5 (80 pin cable, Ulta DMA 4, 66.6 MB/s), when it received obsolete status. The fact that the command has been obsoleted since the beginning of the century pretty much means there is no practical use for it. Reading from memory (even with wait states and retries) is not going to compare to the bottleneck reading or writing to a hard drive with errors might cause. So, it is probably something not worth excercising brain cells on.


----------



## efreedenburg

efreedenburg said:


> Hi
> 
> I have a Tivo Series 3
> antec mx1 with Hitachi Deskstar 1000Gb HDS721010KLA330
> and a seagate free agent pro 750 gig
> 
> With the MX-1 Hitachi combo after about 30 minutes Tivo will reboot or hang or pixilate with the mx1 and Hitachi. It is unwatchable.
> 
> Divorce the esata everything runs perfectly.
> 
> Plug in the Seagate and it runs perfectly for 3 weeks until I received the rma'd Hitachi drive.
> 
> Installed the rmna'd drive in the mx-1 and what do you know?
> 
> The new drive exhibits the exact the same problems, reboots freezes and pixilation.
> 
> I have run the Hitachi advanced tests on the bare drive and it passes all tests.
> 
> Ran the tests in the mx-1 and it fails.
> 
> Soo, I plug in the Seagate Free Agent and everything is fine now for the last 8 days.
> 
> Please help would like to use the Mx-1 and Hitachi Deskstar.
> 
> Thanks for listening
> Ed


Follow up.

Got the RMA for my MX-1, that has fixed the above problems.

It's running perfectly for 2 weeks.

Thanks for your help
ed


----------



## flar

jlib said:


> I can only hazard a guess and that is was a ATA 1 (when it first appeared) single-word DMA era relic, a performance enhancement that was no longer needed with the transition from ATA 4 (40 pin cable, Ultra DMA 2, 33.3 MB/s) to ATA 5 (80 pin cable, Ulta DMA 4, 66.6 MB/s), when it received obsolete status. The fact that the command has been obsoleted since the beginning of the century pretty much means there is no practical use for it. Reading from memory (even with wait states and retries) is not going to compare to the bottleneck reading or writing to a hard drive with errors might cause. So, it is probably something not worth excercising brain cells on.


I'm not sure what these comments have to do with my original point which is that the DB35 drives implement 3 flavors of read commands and 2 flavors of write commands (some of them DMA and some of them non-DMA) which all have the modifier "without retries". The key feature of the command that I mentioned was that it had that "without retries" modifier, not that it was DMA.

A set of commands that works without retries would be great for video streams to avoid locking up the drive with unnecessary error handling and that has nothing to do with memory bandwidth or obsolete forms of DMA, but everything to do with keeping the drive accessible during time-critical reads and writes of non-bit-for-bit-critical video data.

I'm not sure about ATA-1, but some older ATA documents that I read listed the command codes as forms of read and write, but didn't state their exact functions, claiming that they weren't for use by hosts. The DB35 drives list the commands with descriptions and lo and behold those descriptions are very appropos for the needs of video data. They are only listed as "obsolete" in later documents that describe more advanced forms of media streaming support and I can imagine that in the presence of a whole architecture aimed at video streaming that a couple of commands that simply omit error recovery are going to be relatively obsolete.

The comments I was responding to were statements that since TiVo boxes don't implement the new media streaming feature sets then various "DVR" drives don't have any features that would help. In this case I'm pointing out a small set of very simple commands on the DB35s that might indeed help even if the TiVo software doesn't implement the newer all-out media streaming support.


----------



## jlib

It is very rare to have memory with errors (most regular PCs don't even have error correcting circuits in their memory modules). It is no wonder those memory read and write commands are obsoleted. But it is not uncommon for hard drives to develop errors which could be problematic for recording data that has a near realtime urgency. What you seem to be looking for is a RAID Edition drive. Western Digital makes the best ones. That way you will get the default lazy error correction without needing the TiVo to implement commands that are not in its design. 

The ideal scenario will be if the next generation TiVo implements the streaming commands (particularly the urgent bit) for recordings and regular commands for more critical operating system functions (allowing full use of DVR drive features). As it is now, one has to choose one or the other. Either a standard/dvr drive that uses aggressive error correction with the TiVo or a RAID Edition drive that has Time-Limited Error Recovery. There is even a utility that will adjust the TLER on WD drives that do not have it enabled by default. This is starting to get out of the scope of this thread but you can find more info doing a search on TLER.


----------



## jlb

A quick note (I also noted this in the "Expander on sale" thread), but both Amazon and Newegg have discounted the Expander to $135 this morning. I am jumping in today.

I ordered from Amazon as the 1m SIIG cable is $12+ versus $14+ from Newegg. Also, I don't know if the cable would have qualified for free shipping at Newegg (though the drive would have).

The free Super Saver shipping at Amazon should get the drive to me on/around Friday, September 5-Monday, September 8. Though some shows start before that, the bulk start the week of the 22nd.


----------



## GregComeLately

Buy.com has This $129.99 deal for a 1TB WD GP drive. At least, that's the drive they've been using so far. You can knock the price down further with a 5% coupon to bring the price down to $124 -ish shipped.

There is some talk that they've been using a new 3 platter version of the 1TB drive - model #WD10EACS-006DB0.

The previous was the old 4 platter design we know and love (or not. i.e., us S3 owners) - model #WD10EACS-00ZJB0.

So a bunch of you get this to find out and if it's the new drive version, then install them in your S3's and let us know what happens. I don't ask for much.


----------



## jlib

That looks like a clear out of the 4-platter version. Just 4 months ago Buy.com was selling them for $50 more and that was a pretty good deal then. This one should be irresistible (even if it is from buy.com).


----------



## thomaslue

But your link to Buy.com goes to a Calvary CAIS01000.
That's not even on the approved list at FAQ #27...


----------



## jlib

Calvary is a Value Added Reseller (VAR). Western Digital is their Original Equipment Manufactuer (OEM). You can count all the actual drive manufacturers on one hand.


----------



## jlb

Quick question, I know it should be ok either way, but is there a perferred orientation for the expander drive (vertical or horizontal)?

My cat sometime likes to try and climb into the space around where the equipment is and a horizontal orientation will be more sturdy.......


----------



## GregComeLately

thomaslue said:


> But your link to Buy.com goes to a Calvary CAIS01000.
> That's not even on the approved list at FAQ #27...


expanding upon what jlib has said, all Calvary has done is added their backup software to this Western Digital drive. You don't need to use it though.

As one of the user reviewers states: _"Ditch the software (unless you're actually buying this for a backup solution) and use the drive for media storage"_.


----------



## ehgreen

*Tips on moving a WD 500g Expander from a SA 8300 HD to TiVo HD or S/3*

Everything says recorded data is lost moving between LIKE machines. But what about startup capabilities on a Second manufacturer's recording machine?

Are the "boot" sequences the same? Do both recorders use the same data storage formats? same indexing? Is the drive automatically reformatted everytime it is plugged in to a new serial number? any firmware or SW on the drive, or all via the recorder?

What are the "good practices" for a user before he turns in his cable box and "just" wants to move his previously working drive to work on his TiVo? What else might one do to maybe "try" to save some programs?


----------



## greg_burns

ehgreen said:


> *Tips on moving a WD 500g Expander from a SA 8300 HD to TiVo HD or S/3*


Moving an external drive from SA 8300HD to a Tivo is not going to preserve any recordings. The Tivo will just see it as a new drive and ask if you want to start using it. You cannot even move drives between Tivos (for different reasons).


----------



## richsadams

jlb said:


> Quick question, I know it should be ok either way, but is there a perferred orientation for the expander drive (vertical or horizontal)?


There isn't a "preferred" orientation for the WD My DVR Expander. Vertical orientation would theoretically better dissipate heat. If your cat wants to lie on it...that would be a non-purrferred orientation.


----------



## flar

jlib said:


> It is very rare to have memory with errors (most regular PCs don't even have error correcting circuits in their memory modules). It is no wonder those memory read and write commands are obsoleted. But it is not uncommon for hard drives to develop errors which could be problematic for recording data that has a near realtime urgency. What you seem to be looking for is a RAID Edition drive. Western Digital makes the best ones. That way you will get the default lazy error correction without needing the TiVo to implement commands that are not in its design.


Huh? What do memory errors have to do with these commands? The "without retries" in their name refers to "without the _drive_" doing retries.


----------



## ehgreen

Want data storage and booting information, please

My interest is in how the two different recorders (TiVo and SA) use the DVR expander sector space, and the specific steps during the "attachment" or "first boot" procedures.

As my sentence in prior post (at end of page 42) states: understand recorded data is lost.

I am more interested in any "residue" may be on the disk that might confuse the other recorder might find on its first boot.

Was suprised that no formatting of the expander drive was required. That implies it is already factory prepared, or that the recorder does that.

What happens if I attach the Expander to a Windows computer SATA? Will it be recognized? Could any WD placed information be damaged?

Which is my main question: What are the "good practices" for a user before he turns in his cable box and "just" wants to move his previously working drive to work on his TiVo? What else might one do to maybe "try" to save some programs? 

Im from the old school when you did things like force the heads to a parking zone before you powered off a drive. 

The answer to the question just above is, never JUST unplug!


----------



## greg_burns

ehgreen said:


> What happens if I attach the Expander to a Windows computer SATA? Will it be recognized? Could any WD placed information be damaged?


Tivo uses its own MFS file system for video. Windows will not see it. You will need to reformat the drive in Windows if you want to use it that way.

When you connect the drive to a Tivo it formats it (or some equivalent) during the marriage process.

There is no WD placed info on the drive. It is a bare drive from the factory.

I don't know what filesystem SciAtl uses for its external storage. But it is definately not the same (or in any way compatible) with Tivo's. If you want to save recordings from your SciAtl you will need to (somehow) copy the videos to a PC first, then transfer them to your Tivo afterwards.


----------



## jlb

richsadams said:


> There isn't a "preferred" orientation for the WD My DVR Expander. Vertical orientation would theoretically better dissipate heat. If your cat wants to lie on it...that would be a non-purrferred orientation.


Rich, thanks for the info and the LOL for a Friday morning!!!


----------



## richsadams

ehgreen said:


> Want data storage and booting information, please <snip>


What Greg said earlier. You might want to post the same query on the MFSLive forum. Although the site is TiVo-centric, Spike may (or may not) be better able to address the dataset questions there.


----------



## KustomMerc

Let me first say I'm sorry to all who respond to this. It's been awhile..
I did my expansion back on 2/2007. and I'm see so much has changed that I didn't know about. Anyway on to the problem. I have a Seagate 500 gb DB35 and the Antec MX-1 enclosures. I got a blue screen this morning that says it can't see my storage.
So I rebooted 2 -3 times both the drive and the Series 3. no help. so I went ahead and hit clear to at least get my Tivo 3 running and back to work. My question is does Tivo have in the new upgrade we just got last month a problem with my drive and have shut it out or do you think my drive has gone bad after only a year of use? can I go buy a new Sata 1TB and install it in the encloser and start over or do I need this DVR Expander....? again sorry about not being up to date.
KustomMerc


----------



## jlib

Just take that 1TB and install it internally.


----------



## moxie1617

KustomMerc said:


> ..................My question is does Tivo have in the new upgrade we just got last month a problem with my drive and have shut it out or do you think my drive has gone bad after only a year of use? ..........
> KustomMerc


I am using the same setup, MX-1 and 500GB DB35, since May 2007. No problem with the new update and the drive is still going strong. However, in Sept '07 I had to replace the e-sata cale with the siig cable. The drive was moved during house cleaning and the Tivo kept rebooting until the cable was replaced.

Also, you won't have to do the kickstart to install the 1 TB drive.


----------



## KustomMerc

moxie1617 said:


> I am using the same setup, MX-1 and 500GB DB35, since May 2007. No problem with the new update and the drive is still going strong. However, in Sept '07 I had to replace the e-sata cale with the siig cable. The drive was moved during house cleaning and the Tivo kept rebooting until the cable was replaced.
> 
> Also, you won't have to do the kickstart to install the 1 TB drive.


Kickstart?

so I'll try and replace the cable today.. after hitting clear does that mean this external 500 will need to be reinstalled?

if I were to go buy a TB wouldn't it need to be installed like my 500 was?


----------



## greg_burns

KustomMerc said:


> Kickstart?
> 
> so I'll try and replace the cable today.. after hitting clear does that mean this external 500 will need to be reinstalled?
> 
> if I were to go buy a TB wouldn't it need to be installed like my 500 was?


The Series 3 used to require doing a KickStart 62 to add an external drive. Now it supports it via the menu.

If you replace your 500GB with a 1TB in an external drive, your Tivo will detect it as new and ask you to add it. (But first you should divorce your current 500GB drive, by booting with it detached.)


----------



## nrnoble

A few months back I upgraded my S3 to 1TB HDD because the original HDD died. What are my options for adding an external 1TB drive? I have done some reading and it looks like drives need to be married and that only can be done if the internal drive has not been upgraded.

Thx


----------



## greg_burns

nrnoble said:


> A few months back I upgraded my S3 to 1TB HDD because the original HDD died. What are my options for adding an external 1TB drive? I have done some reading and it looks like drives need to be married and that only can be done if the internal drive has not been upgraded.
> 
> Thx


It can be done, but you must connect both drives up to your PC and use WinMFS to marry them.


----------



## V7Goose

greg_burns said:


> It can be done, but you must connect both drives up to your PC and use WinMFS to marry them.


This is correct. I upgraded my internal drive to 1TB, then added the Apricorn DVR Xpander 1TB with WinMFS. Everything booted perfectly the first time. Check out the Official eSATA expansion thread at the beginning of this forum for all the details. Good luck.


----------



## KustomMerc

V7Goose said:


> This is correct. I upgraded my internal drive to 1TB, then added the Apricorn DVR Xpander 1TB with WinMFS. Everything booted perfectly the first time. Check out the Official eSATA expansion thread at the beginning of this forum for all the details. Good luck.


ok it looks like The series 3 doesn't see my old external 500 anymore. I changed the sata cable and nothing. so I went and bought a TB swithched them out. before I start my 3 used to see this external drive. to see the new TB do start tivo then turn on the external or flip something in the Tivo menu
or do I start the tivo with with the TB on? thanks for the help

ok I went to the begining of the thread and read up.......here goes..
I'll let you know if it worked
Thanks all


----------



## KustomMerc

KustomMerc said:


> ok it looks like The series 3 doesn't see my old external 500 anymore. I changed the sata cable and nothing. so I went and bought a TB swithched them out. before I start my 3 used to see this external drive. to see the new TB do start tivo then turn on the external or flip something in the Tivo menu
> or do I start the tivo with with the TB on? thanks for the help
> 
> ok I went to the begining of the thread and read up.......here goes..
> I'll let you know if it worked
> Thanks all


well... i tried everything when I go to the menu to add storage devices
it just won't see the external TB drive. I have tried 2 different cables..

do I have to marry them or kick start it or?


----------



## greg_burns

KustomMerc said:


> well... i tried everything when I go to the menu to add storage devices
> it just won't see the external TB drive. I have tried 2 different cables..
> 
> do I have to marry them or kick start it or?


I assume you have not upgraded your internal drive? If not, then you do not have to marry them. The KS has gone away, so that is not an option.

I _have _ upgraded my internal and when I plug my Antec in it "sees" the new drive, but it won't stick. (I haven't had any luck marrying them together with WinMFS, but that is another story.)

Is it possible the problem is with your Antec case? Another poster was have wacky stuff happen, he RMA'd his with Antec and now all is good.


----------



## KustomMerc

well thanks after all that it looks as if the encloser has gone out on me. going to buy a new one I'll let you know


----------



## jlb

Interesting note about my Expander recently purchased at Amazon for $135.........I chose super saver shipping. Once it is out the door, they say it could take up to 7-9 business days. I assumed real slow delivery.

Well, I ordered last Thursday. It didn't "ship" until yesterday. But, Amazon used UPS Ground and it looks like they have a warehouse somewhere in Nashua, NH. It is already "out for delivery" and will be home when I get there tonight. So, sure, it took 2-3 business days to ship, but once shipped, it will have only taken about 24 hours to get to my house. Nice!!!!!

*[Edit]*: 21 hours total.


----------



## Beachbum55

I recently installed a My DVR expander on my S3

Is there a menu choice to view the amount of disk space (used or available) on the combined internal and external drive?

Thanks.


----------



## richsadams

Beachbum55 said:


> I recently installed a My DVR expander on my S3
> 
> Is there a menu choice to view the amount of disk space (used or available) on the combined internal and external drive?
> 
> Thanks.


Ha! Good one! LOL!!  That's a feature that's been requested for years and years. TiVo doesn't think it's needed apparently. There's a dedicated discussion about it in another area of the forum so don't let anyone hijack this thread to air the pro's and con's. Here's the latest one, but there are dozens of them floating around.

That said, there is a neat little program that we use called TiVo Playlist that features a basic disc usage meter/graph. You'll need to have your TiVo networked to a P.C. to use it, but it works quite well.

Oh, and congrats on the additional real estate. Enjoy!


----------



## Beachbum55

Thanks Rich! Seemed like such a simple feature, I was certain it was hiding somewhere. No biggie really, since we probably won't push the combined capacity that often.


----------



## ThAbtO

Beachbum55 said:


> I recently installed a My DVR expander on my S3
> 
> Is there a menu choice to view the amount of disk space (used or available) on the combined internal and external drive?
> 
> Thanks.


The 'Total' amount of storage in hours is listed only on the 'System Information' screen.


----------



## jlb

Got home to my Expander this evening! Yayyyyy!!!

Connected without a hitch at all. I used the SIIG cable. Folks have said that it sort of "snaps" in. I didn't detect a snap. However, it does feel more sturdy in there than the supplied cable.

Anyways, I am very excited. We passed the WAF without a hitch too (basically.....indifference). So far so good!!!!!

Thanks to everyone in this thread for letting me waiver back and forth before finally jumping in (thanks to Amazon's $135 price).


----------



## richsadams

jlb said:


> Got home to my Expander this evening! Yayyyyy!!!


Well done. :up: Enjoy!


----------



## Poochie

OK, I've read through much of this, and think I have a handle on things, but thought I'd double-check since I don't want to make any mistakes.

First, my general plan would be to upgrade the internal drive of my stock S3. It's already running 9.4. I figure this way I'll have a backup drive (the original), and I won't have to worry about an external enclosure / eSata cable coming loose. If I ever need more than 130 hours then I can always add an Antec/1TB external later, but I doubt I'll need/want that anytime soon.

I will follow the FAQ (Section III, #11, steps 1-11) then put the 1TB drive into the S3 and power it up (and cross my fingers)

Second, I'm planning on using the WD10EVCS drive (~$180 at Amazon). The price differential with the WD10EACS (~$164 on Amazon) is small enough to me to make me not want to worry about "will I get a EACS revision that doesn't work as a S3 internal drive?" and "will it be louder?".

Questions:
- Will the (EVCS) drive come pre-configured with the proper AAM level, or will I need/want to run a tool on it while it's in the PC?
- If I later want to add a homebrew external setup, and I'm running through step 13 of Section III #11, would I be considered to be "upgraded directly from my original TiVo drive" or "upgraded from a previously upgraded TiVo" when prepping the external drive? I'd think/guess I'd fall into the latter and would need to run the LiveCD method here, but not 100% sure.

Whew! Hopefully these are simple questions. Thanks in advance!


----------



## flar

Poochie said:


> Second, I'm planning on using the WD10EVCS drive (~$180 at Amazon). The price differential with the WD10EACS (~$164 on Amazon) is small enough to me to make me not want to worry about "will I get a EACS revision that doesn't work as a S3 internal drive?" and "will it be louder?".


Check it out on buy.com - currently $157.99 for the WD10EVCS (and you can google a $5 coupon for first time buyers as well).


----------



## greg_burns

Poochie said:


> Second, I'm planning on using the WD10EVCS drive (~$180 at Amazon). The price differential with the WD10EACS (~$164 on Amazon) is small enough to me to make me not want to worry about "will I get a EACS revision that doesn't work as a S3 internal drive?" and "will it be louder?".
> 
> Questions:
> - Will the (EVCS) drive come pre-configured with the proper AAM level, or will I need/want to run a tool on it while it's in the PC?
> - If I later want to add a homebrew external setup, and I'm running through step 13 of Section III #11, would I be considered to be "upgraded directly from my original TiVo drive" or "upgraded from a previously upgraded TiVo" when prepping the external drive? I'd think/guess I'd fall into the latter and would need to run the LiveCD method here, but not 100% sure.


I bought the EVCS for my S3. Got mine at buy.com. Price has dropped considerably in the last month. I see they have it for $158 w/ free shipping.

My EVCS already had the AAM set to 128 (i.e. quiet seek mode).

If you later want to add an external drive, you attach your current 1TB internal (not the old original 250GB) and the new external drive to your PC and use WinMFS. Should be easy (but I have given up myself for now).


----------



## Poochie

Jim/Greg- thanks for the pointers to buy.com.

Greg- thanks for the info on the EVCS. Hopefully all will go smoothly and I'll not have to worry about running out of space once the fall season, football season, and hockey season are in full swing.


----------



## gabbott1

Just got my first Tivo - a Series 3 HD unit that obviously needs more storage capacity. Seems like adding an external 1 TB drive is a reasonable place to start and then replace the internal drive as well if I decide I want still more storage. In reviewing the postings, it seems the Western Digital and the Hitachi drives are the main recommended choices for building an external solution...but the Hitachi also seems to currently be $50 - $100 more than the Western Digital drive. Is there any advantage or reason to spend the extra $ to get the Hitachi?

Thanks for any insight and help.


----------



## KustomMerc

Well thanks to all who helped with my external problem. It seemed that after I checked and replaced cables, hard drives, etc. The last thing I checked of course was the problem. My MX-1 encloser had gone bad. The Series3 couldn't see it. So I went down and bought a new 1TB ($149) drive installed a new MX-1 and with the Series 3 new software nothing to do but hook it up. Wow when I checked the Sys Info..... I had 164 hrs of HD recording avail. Man that's Kool! 

Thanks again :up:


----------



## richsadams

gabbott1 said:


> Just got my first Tivo - a Series 3 HD unit that obviously needs more storage capacity. Seems like adding an external 1 TB drive is a reasonable place to start and then replace the internal drive as well if I decide I want still more storage. In reviewing the postings, it seems the Western Digital and the Hitachi drives are the main recommended choices for building an external solution...but the Hitachi also seems to currently be $50 - $100 more than the Western Digital drive. Is there any advantage or reason to spend the extra $ to get the Hitachi?
> 
> Thanks for any insight and help.


Welcome to the forum. :up: I'm a Seagate man myself, but I've had the recommended WD 1TB hard drive in our Series3 for about 10 months now without any issues at all. AFAIK there's no advantage to the Hitachi drive other than that they do have a positive failure record.

To avoid confusion, did you get a Series3 or a TiVo HD? Both are from the Series3 family, but of course there are marked differences such as the TiVo HD's tiny hard drive. If it's a Series3 adding an external drive is fairly simple (follow the instructions on the first post of this thread). If it's a TiVo HD replacing the internal hard drive is recommended since the drive has to be pulled to marry anything besides the 500GB WD My DVR Expander.


----------



## richsadams

KustomMerc said:


> Well thanks to all who helped with my external problem. It seemed that after I checked and replaced cables, hard drives, etc. The last thing I checked of course was the problem. My MX-1 encloser had gone bad. The Series3 couldn't see it. So I went down and bought a new 1TB ($149) drive installed a new MX-1 and with the Series 3 new software nothing to do but hook it up. Wow when I checked the Sys Info..... I had 164 hrs of HD recording avail. Man that's Kool!
> 
> Thanks again :up:


Yours is one of several posts regarding failing MX-1's that have popped up now. How long was it in service?

Congrats on getting everything up and running...enjoy!


----------



## analog4

I am going to upgrade my TiVo HD to a 1TB internal fairly soon (ie: hours).

From what I read in one of the first posts it's just a matter of attaching the TiVo HD drive and the new 1TB drive. I open WinMFS, select the TiVo Drive. Make a backup of the TiVo HD drive, then restore it to the 1TB drive, making sure I have the SuperSize option selected (pretty much following the instructions as posted in that post). The TiVo is completely empty so I'm just gonna transfer the data and no shows - that seems to be the simplest method in my case.

However, I read that you can't boot to a Windows PC with the TiVo drive - I assume that's not correct. The thing you can not do is open Disk Manager and Initialize the disk. If you don't do that you should be fine - correct?


----------



## gabbott1

richsadams said:


> Welcome to the forum. :up: I'm a Seagate man myself, but I've had the recommended WD 1TB hard drive in our Series3 for about 10 months now without any issues at all. AFAIK there's no advantage to the Hitachi drive other than that they do have a positive failure record.
> 
> To avoid confusion, did you get a Series3 or a TiVo HD? Both are from the Series3 family, but of course there are marked differences such as the TiVo HD's tiny hard drive. If it's a Series3 adding an external drive is fairly simple (follow the instructions on the first post of this thread). If it's a TiVo HD replacing the internal hard drive is recommended since the drive has to be pulled to marry anything besides the 500GB WD My DVR Expander.


Thanks Rich, appreciate the response and help. Seagate would have been my first choice as well but it seems the DG-35 isn't made in a TB capacity as yet...hence my going towards the WD or Hitachi. Sounds like the WD is the route to go. Sorry for the confusion - I have a new Series 3 which, with the current $200 rebate, wasn't much more than a HD and though discontinued, seemed to offer more capabilities. Now I just have to (somewhat impatiently) wait for Comcast to get around to coming out to install the CableCards. Your posting seems to indicate that you have M-Cards in your Series 3 so I am guessing that it is what Comcast will be providing (appears you are in Lake Oswego and I am in Portland so I suspect we both have the same Comcast policies/practices). So do I need 1 or 2 M cards?

On a different note, is there anyway I can delete all these annoying ads that Tivo seems to download into my machine? I go to view my photos or listen to music and I have to wade through multiple screens of stuff I didn't put on there and don't want just to get to my photos or music. I didn't immediately find anyway of deleting them though...

Have a good Labor Day.

Greg Abbott


----------



## flar

analog4 said:


> I am going to upgrade my TiVo HD to a 1TB internal fairly soon (ie: hours).
> 
> From what I read in one of the first posts it's just a matter of attaching the TiVo HD drive and the new 1TB drive. I open WinMFS, select the TiVo Drive. Make a backup of the TiVo HD drive, then restore it to the 1TB drive, making sure I have the SuperSize option selected (pretty much following the instructions as posted in that post). The TiVo is completely empty so I'm just gonna transfer the data and no shows - that seems to be the simplest method in my case.
> 
> However, I read that you can't boot to a Windows PC with the TiVo drive - I assume that's not correct. The thing you can not do is open Disk Manager and Initialize the disk. If you don't do that you should be fine - correct?


That is all consistent with my recent experiences upgrading my S3 to a 1TB internal drive. I was booted into Windows and connected the drives just fine, but did not use any Windows tool to initialize them in any way and WinMFS was able to do the transfer without any problems. Just for safety I hooked up the 1TB first and ran the Western Digital diagnostics on it for 2 full passes (1 test pass reading every sector and 1 "write 0s" pass) just to be sure that the entire drive was accessible and writable.

Once I was sure I had a working 1TB drive I then disassembled the TiVo and did the upgrade as you specified using WinMFS with no trouble whatsoever. I didn't bother running the supersize option until after I did the full copy as it can be done at any time. When you select supersize it acts on the existing selected TiVo drive so if you try to do the copy with it "selected" really what you'd be doing is supersizing the original and then copying from the supersized drive. I didn't want to modify my original drive in any way (even though I backed it up) so I waited until the full copy was done and then selected the new drive as the TiVo drive and then ran the supersize option. I ended up with the full 144/1367 that I was supposed to have so everything worked just fine that way...


----------



## analog4

flar said:


> That is all consistent with my recent experiences upgrading my S3 to a 1TB internal drive. I was booted into Windows and connected the drives just fine, but did not use any Windows tool to initialize them in any way and WinMFS was able to do the transfer without any problems. Just for safety I hooked up the 1TB first and ran the Western Digital diagnostics on it for 2 full passes (1 test pass reading every sector and 1 "write 0s" pass) just to be sure that the entire drive was accessible and writable.
> 
> Once I was sure I had a working 1TB drive I then disassembled the TiVo and did the upgrade as you specified using WinMFS with no trouble whatsoever. I didn't bother running the supersize option until after I did the full copy as it can be done at any time. When you select supersize it acts on the existing selected TiVo drive so if you try to do the copy with it "selected" really what you'd be doing is supersizing the original and then copying from the supersized drive. I didn't want to modify my original drive in any way (even though I backed it up) so I waited until the full copy was done and then selected the new drive as the TiVo drive and then ran the supersize option. I ended up with the full 144/1367 that I was supposed to have so everything worked just fine that way...


I went ahead and upgraded the TiVo HD and I am happy to say it went great. I now have the 144/1367 as I'm supposed to have with a 1TB drive.

What I did was boot with the TiVo drive attached. I made a backup of the drive, the kernel and the boot page (I figure why not - only the first one was necessary). Then I turned it off, attached the 1TB Seagate ES.2, and did a restore onto the drive. It then asked if I wanted to use the extra space and I said yes. Then I went and made sure SuperSize was on and it said it already was. Then I powered off the computer, put the new 1TB drive into the TiVo HD and it worked.

In case anyone is wondering, I'm using a Seagate ST31000340NS Barracuda ES.2 1TB drive - it's working so far.


----------



## richsadams

gabbott1 said:


> Thanks Rich, appreciate the response and help. Seagate would have been my first choice as well but it seems the DG-35 isn't made in a TB capacity as yet...hence my going towards the WD or Hitachi. <snip>


Hey Greg...sounds like you and your new (and inexpensive   ) Series3 will be fine. Our Series3 has two "S" cable cards and our TiVo HD has one "M" cable card, both from Comcast. You would need two "S" or two "M" cable cards for your Series3.

I had a Seagate DB35/MX-1 eSATA drive before upgrading the internal drive in our S3. It's in one of our PC's now...whisper quiet and rock solid. Based on posts here and on other forums it looks like WD has really put some effort into QC over the past couple of years though.

Not sure which ads you're referring to. Whenever I look at photos or play music from my PC I pretty much go directly to them...I don't run into any advertisements. Hmmm. 

In any case, it was a good Labor Day Weekend...but not long enough!


----------



## jlib

analog4 said:


> ...However, I read that you can't boot to a Windows PC with the TiVo drive - I assume that's not correct. The thing you can not do is open Disk Manager and Initialize the disk. If you don't do that you should be fine - correct?


Yes, you are correct as far as Windows XP and later goes. The only caveat applies to Win 2K which will initialize the drive without prompting. That is probably where that info you heard came from.


----------



## Agent86

dwit said:


> Perfect for the Tivo HD. If you get the new 3 platter version, all the better. BTW, already posted here as working in the Tivo HD.
> 
> Please post the extended model number you receive and from where purchased.
> 
> Newest 3 platter version, model# WD10EACS-*006DBO*.
> 
> "Older" 4 platter model# WD10EACS-*00ZJB0*.


Odd - I've got neither of those models.

The drive I got says:
_MODEL:_ WD10EACS-*00C7B0*
_DATE:_ 11 JUN 2008

It was purchased from Provantage on 08-14-2008.

So I'm not sure how many platters this one has - would be interesting to know. I couldn't get the drive to work with the Hitachi tools to adjust the AAM, but I was able to make the adjustment using hdparm on the MFSLive Linux boot CD.

The drive is whisper quiet, and works like a charm in my TiVoHD!


----------



## 1283

Take a look at the bottom side of the drive. If the case is flat, then it has 4 platters. If the case has circular/radial ribs, then it has 3 platters.


----------



## wedenton

GregComeLately said:


> Buy.com has This $129.99 deal for a 1TB WD GP drive. At least, that's the drive they've been using so far. You can knock the price down further with a 5% coupon to bring the price down to $124 -ish shipped.
> 
> There is some talk that they've been using a new 3 platter version of the 1TB drive - model #WD10EACS-006DB0.
> 
> The previous was the old 4 platter design we know and love (or not. i.e., us S3 owners) - model #WD10EACS-00ZJB0.
> 
> So a bunch of you get this to find out and if it's the new drive version, then install them in your S3's and let us know what happens. I don't ask for much.


This deal is over now and the price has gone WAY up, but huge thanks to Greg for posting this. I got in on the deal - $250 for two drives with the cables & software. I received model #WD10EACS-006DB0 three platter drives manufacture date 12 Aug 2008. Buy.com did an adequate job of packaging the drives for shipment. One of these will be going into an S3, but not until re-runs start next spring. Not going to chance it before then.


----------



## 1283

wedenton said:


> One of these will be going into an S3, but not until re-runs start next spring.


1TB will be under $100 at that time.


----------



## jlib

c3 said:


> Take a look at the bottom side of the drive. If the case is flat, then it has 4 platters. If the case has circular/radial ribs, then it has 3 platters.


The top should also look smooth like the WD Caviar Green WD5000AACS (no StableTrac).


----------



## flar

wedenton said:


> This deal is over now and the price has gone WAY up, but huge thanks to Greg for posting this.


That deal may be over, but search on buy.com for WD10EACS and WD10EVCS and there are still some excellent prices on those drives (much better than the $235 price that the afore-mentioned link went back up to...)


----------



## rjspring

wedenton said:


> This deal is over now and the price has gone WAY up, but huge thanks to Greg for posting this. I got in on the deal - $250 for two drives with the cables & software. I received model #WD10EACS-006DB0 three platter drives manufacture date 12 Aug 2008. Buy.com did an adequate job of packaging the drives for shipment. One of these will be going into an S3, but not until re-runs start next spring. Not going to chance it before then.


I believe the link for buy.com now points to the drive + backup software which is why the cost is $250. You can still buy the WD from newegg for $149.99 (as of 9/7) here.

The price has actually fluctuated the last week, going as low as $139.99. In the next month or so I'll be in the market to buy two myself.


----------



## More_Storage

I have a few questions before I upgrade my new Tivo HD (still in the box).

Here's my plan with questions below: 

Upgrade internal Tivo drive with a 750GB Seagate Barracuda ES.2 and a 1.5TB eSATA RAID 0 enclosure with two of the same Seagate drives. The goal is to have 2.25TB available for recording.

The Tivo is brand new, I have not connected to Tivo for updates yet or recorded any programs.

1) Should I connect to Tivo and get the latest updates BEFORE upgrading the drives?

2) I assume that I should back up the original drive before replacing with the new drive?

3) What is the likelihood future Tivo system upgrades will undo the upgrades?

4) Is there anything that I am overlooking or should know before upgrading?

Thanks in advance!!


----------



## richsadams

More_Storage said:


> I have a few questions before I upgrade my new Tivo HD (still in the box).
> 
> Here's my plan with questions below: <snip>


Here's my $ .02...

1) It's generally recommended that you get your TiVo up to speed before your cableco does its thing and then upgrade. All of your cable card settings, etc. will remain intact. The TiVo software upgrade to the current v9.4 should hit the box within 48 hours or so or you can try forcing the connection to get it sooner.

2) winMFS will allow you to perform a truncated back up. IMO the best thing to do is to get your TiVo set up the way you want, perform the upgrade and then put the original drive on the shelf. If something goes south you can always use it to start again and if you need to return it for some reason you can just pop it back in.

3) TiVo is well aware of enthusiasts tweaking and upgrading their equipment. Over the years TiVo has never caused previous upgrades to fail due to updated software, etc. In fact they have even go so far as to notify users of unauthorized equipment (Series3's employing Seagate FAP eSATA drives come to mind) that what they are using may be problematic...however they didn't do anything to prevent them from working. There's no reason to believe that that core business practice will change in the future. As you'd guess, they simply don't offer support to TiVo's that have been modified using anything other than their approved products.

4) As long as you follow the directions in the first post of this sticky thread and/or those for winMFS you should be fine. There are a couple of folks here employing RAID systems but I'm not one so can't speak to that...hopefully someone with that knowledge can chime in.

If it were me, unless you really think you'll need that extra 250GB I'd simply upgrade the internal to 1TB and attach a 1TB eSATA using the recommended Antec MX-1 enclosure and be done with it...no RAID issues (not that I know of any). 1.5TB drives are hitting the market. I don't know of anyone that's tried installing one yet, but I'm pretty sure that some pioneers will jump in pretty soon. That's probably an option for the future.

BTW, Seagate Barracuda's are pretty noisy. I'm not sure if that's a concern or not. I'm a Seagate man from way back, but have been using the newer WD GP "green" drives for about 8 months now without any problems at all...and they are very quiet right out of the box. If you want to stick with a 750GB Seagate, the DB35 series (DVR dedicated drive) is coming down in price...a few bucks more but might be worth it?

Best of luck and enjoy all of the "real estate"!


----------



## More_Storage

Rich,

Thanks for the great insights.

I'll post how things work as soon as everything is up and running. I'm using a Vantec NST-400MX-SR drive enclosure that supports hardware RAID 0. It simply combines both drives into a single volume that equals the total size of both drives. 

Fortunately noise is not on the list of concerns as the gear is stored in a closet in another room.

Thanks again!!


----------



## More_Storage

Rich,

I just finished the upgrade process I described above and it was fairly straightforward. However, the Tivo said that the storage was not supported when I tired to set it up. 

The upgraded internal drive is working great and showing 98 hours of HD. The process with MFSLive to "add" the eSATA drive to the internal drive was "successful" (according to the MFSLive app). 

Any suggestions as to what I might have missed? 

Thanks again...


----------



## richsadams

More_Storage said:


> Rich,
> 
> I just finished the upgrade process I described above and it was fairly straightforward. However, the Tivo said that the storage was not supported when I tired to set it up.
> 
> The upgraded internal drive is working great and showing 98 hours of HD. The process with MFSLive to "add" the eSATA drive to the internal drive was "successful" (according to the MFSLive app).
> 
> Any suggestions as to what I might have missed?
> 
> Thanks again...


Sorry to hear that your expansion drive isn't playing nice with your TiVo. Sounds like you did everything correctly. You could start all over again to be sure they are married properly.

Or it could be something as simple as the eSATA cable. The recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable is less than $10 so you could give that a try.

However my first inclination is to suspect the Vantec enclosure. IIRC there were a couple of other folks that tried using an enclosure that housed two drives but (for lack of a better term) "represented" them as one and they didn't work. I also think there were a few issues with other Vantec enclosures of some sort, but I'm not sure what they may have been. The bridge of some enclosures can cause problems. I know the Vantec NexStar3 is recommended, but AFAIK that's the only one that was used successfully by at least one user. You could do a search with the keyword "Vantec" and see what comes up.

If all else fails I'd try one of your drives in an Antec MX-1 enclosure. That should be successful.


----------



## bweeston

richsadams said:


> Welcome to the forum. :up: I'm a Seagate man myself, but I've had the recommended WD 1TB hard drive in our Series3 for about 10 months now without any issues at all. AFAIK there's no advantage to the Hitachi drive other than that they do have a positive failure record.
> 
> To avoid confusion, did you get a Series3 or a TiVo HD? Both are from the Series3 family, but of course there are marked differences such as the TiVo HD's tiny hard drive. If it's a Series3 adding an external drive is fairly simple (follow the instructions on the first post of this thread). If it's a TiVo HD replacing the internal hard drive is recommended since the drive has to be pulled to marry anything besides the 500GB WD My DVR Expander.


Rich - Your last sentence suggests that the "marrying" process isn't necessary if you upgrade the TivoHD hard drive and have the WD My DVR Expander. Is that correct?

Ben.


----------



## greg_burns

bweeston said:


> Rich - Your last sentence suggests that the "marrying" process isn't necessary if you upgrade the TivoHD hard drive and have the WD My DVR Expander. Is that correct?
> 
> Ben.


No

Hmmm. Maybe I answered to fast. Let's see what others have to say first.


----------



## richsadams

bweeston said:


> Rich - Your last sentence suggests that the "marrying" process isn't necessary if you upgrade the TivoHD hard drive and have the WD My DVR Expander. Is that correct?
> 
> Ben.


Hi Ben, good catch. What I meant to say was that to add any model _other than_ the WD My DVR Expander to a TiVo HD, the internal hard drive has to be pulled anyway...so it's best (easier?) to upgrade the internal drive instead.

Greg is correct. Once an internal HDD upgrade has been made to a Series3 _or_ TiVo HD the plug and play option can no longer be used. You'd have to use winMFS to marry ANY eSATA hard drive (including the WD My DVR Expander) to the internal drive going forward. The good news is that an eSATA drive can be married to an upgraded internal drive at any time in the future. (Hmmm...wonder if that applies to the new TiVo HD XL?  Probably.) Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## gfoulks

am I reading this thread correctly.. the only approved external expansion drive is the DVR expander? I have a WD 1TB external esata sitting here that I would like to use.... I guess I cant?


----------



## jlib

gfoulks said:


> am I reading this thread correctly.. the only approved external expansion drive is the DVR expander?


 Yes.


> I have a WD 1TB external esata sitting here that I would like to use.... I guess I cant?


No problem if you are willing to open the TiVo (assuming THD here) and have access to a PC with SATA drive connectors. But if you are willing to do that you might as well just upgrade the internal drive.

The approved status only means it is easier to install, not that it works any better than your own DIY solution. If going the external route just make sure your enclosure is on the list of known trouble-free ones (see first post).


----------



## richsadams

gfoulks said:


> am I reading this thread correctly.. the only approved external expansion drive is the DVR expander? I have a WD 1TB external esata sitting here that I would like to use.... I guess I cant?


What jlib said...plus some WD eSATA drives will NOT work with either the TiVo HD or the Series3 per Section III #5 and #6 of the first post in this thread. WD's My Book series of external drives comes to mind. Speculation is that there is a problem with the three-way bridge.

Let us know how things go!


----------



## atlynch

#18 States:
--->
Can I upgrade the built-in hard drive with a larger model without affecting my eSATA drive?

You can do that with the MFSLive bootCD if you are still using the original, factory-installed TiVo drive. You cannot do this if the internal drive was previously upgraded. Note this capability is not yet supported in WinMFS, but it could be added in a future version. Credit to spike2k5 for this answer.
<--

I have a Tivo HD with unmodified original HD, and a MyDVR expander. I'd like to replace the internal drive with the WD10000CSRTL now selling at Fry's for $149. I'd like (ideally) to keep settings and recordings. 

1) How do I do this?
2) As far as I can tell, the WD EACS in the WD100000CSRTL is a problem in a Series 3, but works in a TiVoHD. Is this correct?
3) Is there a recommended PCI Sata card that will work in a 2.2Ghz Pentium4 Sony Vaio?

Thanks Much,
Drew


----------



## More_Storage

richsadams said:


> Sorry to hear that your expansion drive isn't playing nice with your TiVo. Sounds like you did everything correctly. You could start all over again to be sure they are married properly.
> 
> Rich,
> 
> I read on the MFSlive MB that once the marrying process is completed the internal drive and eSATA drive should show up as "verified" after running MFSadd with MFSLive.
> 
> Do you have any experience with this?
> 
> Thanks again...


----------



## richsadams

More_Storage said:


> Rich,
> 
> I read on the MFSlive MB that once the marrying process is completed the internal drive and eSATA drive should show up as "verified" after running MFSadd with MFSLive.
> 
> Do you have any experience with this?
> 
> Thanks again...


Hi there, sorry I don't have any recent experience with MFSLive. Although I've run Linux servers and am more than comfortable with command lines, winMFS is so turn-key that I don't have to bother. Point and click does have some advantages. I haven't used command lines since I hacked and upgraded our Series1 years ago (still works!). In addition I didn't add an expansion drive since upgrading the internal to 1TB. Since 1.5TB drives are on the market now and 2TB's are around the corner I don't think I will ever need to.

I'm sure some others will chime in with some help though or you could post your query on the MFSLive forum. Spike's very good about answering questions there. Best of luck and let us know how it goes!


----------



## susani8

Does anyone have experience with the Fantom GreenDrive 1TB USB eSATA External Hard Drive- GD1000EU? 

Buy.com has it for $130 today. That seems a great buy to upgrade my series 3. I had the TiVo approved dvr expander and it lasted about a year before completely failing. The Caviar I bought 18 months ago is still going strong - so I'm not too impressed with the "DVR expander is built to be on 24/7, whereas other externals are not and will probably fail much more quickly" argument! 

I would like to know how noisy it is, does it connect with the series 3 without issue, etc. It comes in an aluminum heat-dispersing case without a fan (a concern) and it does not indicated what type of on/off switch it has. Anyone like to share their experience with this drive? Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

susani8 said:


> Does anyone have experience with the Fantom GreenDrive 1TB USB eSATA External Hard Drive- GD1000EU? <snip>


AFIK you would join the TiVo Pioneer Club if you connect this drive to your Series 3.  You can get it for even less from NewEgg, $119.99 after rebate. I tend to trust newegg.com over buy.com based on a number of posts about bad experiences with buy.com. But others are happy with them and you don't have to wait for the rebate $$$ to show up. Your call. Also, it apparently does not come with an eSATA cable so you'd have to buy one. The recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable is less than $10.

As far as the drive, there are only a limited amount of hard drive manufacturers and AFAIK, only one making a "green" drive series, Western Digital. My money says it's a WD10EACS in a Fantom case. WD has just upgraded that drive from a four to a three platter and may be getting rid of the older models. Nothing wrong with them though, particularly for use as an eSATA drive for TiVo. The one we have has been flawless for about 9 months now.

The fact that the case doesn't have a fan is of concern, but others here are satisfied with fanless enclosures. Enclosures without fans should have plenty of air circulation and not be placed on or near other heat-generating CE equipment. Also as you mentioned, it needs to have a "hard" on/off switch so it will power back on after a blackout (best to use a UPS, but you never know). I couldn't find any information about that. Here's the manufacturer's contact link: http://store.fantomdrives.com/aboutus.html Maybe you could give them a call if no one else here knows any more about this unit.

Seems like a very good price though plus a two-year warranty Vs the expander's one-year warranty. It's just the "not knowing" anything about it (or the company) that would make me hesitate. $119 or $129 is a good price right now...approaching and passing some of the 750GB $$ per GB pricing. Worst case, you could always send it back and just be out the shipping and probably a restocking fee.

Let us know what you decide...if you're up for joining the TiVo Pioneer Club or not (the T-shirt is worth it alone!)


----------



## cubbage

I have a Tivo Series3 HD which I bought my wife for xmas (sure way to get gear). Just added a esata enclosure (on sale at Fry's), 1 TB Seagate sata drive and esata cable in August. Immediately assembled the rig, plugged it into Tivo (was on) it informed me that a new drive had been added and did I want it added to the system, my answer was YES. It requested permission to reboot, gave it. The system rebooted and when it was finished (around 6 to 7 minutes) it had added the hard drive to its storage capacity. The enclosure was aluminum inside with a plastic wrapper on the outside. Dont remember the case manufacture but it had a real on/off switch. It seems to always be recording programs of which all I wanted was my season passes not the Tivo suggestions so I turned that off. The drive is not running as much now but I am very happy with the rig. Let some of the passes complete (read not delete) and I will have whole seasons. The drive cannot be heard unless you are standing next to it. I have the drive sitting outside of the cabinet so that is helping to keep the heat down. The whole cost was 199.99. But as happens with high tech Fry's had their external esata 1 TB on sale last weekend for $140.00. Fry's website is outpost.com. Never buy at Fry's unless it is on sale then it is always a great bargain.


----------



## susani8

richsadams said:


> Let us know what you decide...if you're up for joining the TiVo Pioneer Club or not (the T-shirt is worth it alone!)


Okay, sign me up - I ordered it and will see how it does...!


----------



## atlynch

atlynch said:


> #18 States:
> --->
> Can I upgrade the built-in hard drive with a larger model without affecting my eSATA drive?
> 
> You can do that with the MFSLive bootCD if you are still using the original, factory-installed TiVo drive. You cannot do this if the internal drive was previously upgraded. Note this capability is not yet supported in WinMFS, but it could be added in a future version. Credit to spike2k5 for this answer.
> <--
> 
> I have a Tivo HD with unmodified original HD, and a MyDVR expander. I'd like to replace the internal drive with the WD10000CSRTL now selling at Fry's for $149. I'd like (ideally) to keep settings and recordings.
> 
> 1) How do I do this?
> 2) As far as I can tell, the WD EACS in the WD100000CSRTL is a problem in a Series 3, but works in a TiVoHD. Is this correct?
> 3) Is there a recommended PCI Sata card that will work in a 2.2Ghz Pentium4 Sony Vaio?
> 
> Thanks Much,
> Drew


I'll answer my own questions, in case it helps someone else. 
1) It does not work (at least how I tried to do it). I used MFSLive backup and gave the two original drives as source and piped to restore to the new drive. It ran fine (took about 3.5 hours). When I put the new drive into the TiVo, I got the error messages about the wrong external sata drive attached on boot, even without the expander attached. What did work (without saving recordings) was to reconfigure the TiVo as original (160 + expander), divorce the expander, wait a long time for it to reboot, then use winmfs to setup the 1TB drive with the expander from the now divorced original drive.
2) the WD10000CSRTL (EACS) seems to work fine. I think it has been listed as the new 3 platter version on these forums. I set the AAM to 128, and even before I put the cover on it was silent. Amazing.
3) I used a Siig Sata card, with two internal ports and a Vantec Sata card with an internal and an external port. They both had the siImage chipset and used the same driver. Worked like a charm.

Anybody near Sunnyvale, CA who wants to use my PC to set up their TiVoHD, and make a donation towards recouping the costs of the two sata cards, pm me.

-Drew


----------



## azmp1

Folks, is HD recommendation table on first page still up to date? I will be upgrading my mew S3HD to 1tb drive and just want to see if there are more options then whats in the table (sorry, but just no time for reading through all 59 pages of this thread). So if anyone can chime in with other HDs that are acceptable for internal upgrade that is not in the table i will really appreciate it.

One other thing, as for WD drives (had the best experiance with then over the years, all my S1/S2 Tivos had always had WD upgrades),but it seems that i can not find the EVCS drive anywhere, all i see is EACS drives that looks to be not acceptable... Is that still the case? Can anyone point me to where i can find one?

The bottom line, i'm looking for a 1tb HD with good reputation under $130 for internal upgrade.
All feedback is greatly appreciated.
Thanks


----------



## greg_burns

azmp1 said:


> One other thing, as for WD drives (had the best experiance with then over the years, all my S1/S2 Tivos had always had WD upgrades),but it seems that i can not find the EVCS drive anywhere, all i see is EACS drives that looks to be not acceptable... Is that still the case? Can anyone point me to where i can find one?


Got mine at buy.com
http://www.buy.com/prod/western-dig...erial-ata-300-serial/q/loc/101/206827123.html

Hearing a lot of chatter about this drive too...

WD1001FALS
http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=488

But is seems to be more expensive than even the EVCS.

So you have an S3, not a TivoHD? If you did have a TivoHD, just get the EACS.


----------



## HDRyder9

Buy.com has the Western Digital WD10EVCS in stock for 147.99 with free shipping. I don't know if that's a good price but it is available.


----------



## azmp1

greg_burns said:


> Got mine at buy.com
> http://www.buy.com/prod/western-dig...erial-ata-300-serial/q/loc/101/206827123.html
> 
> Hearing a lot of chatter about this drive too...
> 
> WD1001FALS
> http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=488
> 
> But is seems to be more expensive than even the EVCS.
> 
> So you have an S3, not a TivoHD? If you did have a TivoHD, just get the EACS.


Sorry, i should have clarified, i do have TivoHD, not the silver Series 3. But i though EACS drives were not acceptable... So this drive will be OK then?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Western-Digital...39:1|66:2|65:12|240:1308&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14


----------



## atlynch

azmp1 said:


> Sorry, i should have clarified, i do have TivoHD, not the silver Series 3. But i though EACS drives were not acceptable... So this drive will be OK then?
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Western-Digital...39:1|66:2|65:12|240:1308&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14


I just installed two of them, both in TiVoHDs, one with a myDVR expander attached. See my post #1745 above. All working fine. _Very_ quiet.

-D


----------



## greg_burns

azmp1 said:


> Sorry, i should have clarified, i do have TivoHD, not the silver Series 3. But i though EACS drives were not acceptable... So this drive will be OK then?
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Western-Digital...39:1|66:2|65:12|240:1308&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14


The EACS has no reported problems as internal (or otherwise) with the TivoHD.

I might pay a little bit more to get it from Newegg just for their no hassle return policy.


----------



## azmp1

greg_burns said:


> The EACS has no reported problems as internal (or otherwise) with the TivoHD.
> 
> I might pay a little bit more to get it from Newegg just for their no hassle return policy.


Excellent, thank you Greg EACS it is then. What do you guys think about this one?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136293

Anyone has tried with no issues?


----------



## greg_burns

Never bought a recertified drive before. Not having that warm fuzzy feeling isn't worth the savings to me, but that's just me. 

Also looks like it only has 1 yr warranty rather than the 3yr that $140 one has.


----------



## JonathanMeyers

I installed the WD10EACS 1TB Green 3 platter as an internal upgrade in my TiVOHD. Working great so far. Very quiet. Bought it from zipzoomfly.com for 136.80. Free shipping.


----------



## richsadams

azmp1 said:


> Excellent, thank you Greg EACS it is then. What do you guys think about this one?
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136293
> 
> Anyone has tried with no issues?


$30 for peace of mind? Priceless. Well...$30. Almost priceless.  Our WD10EACS has been going strong for about eight months now.


----------



## jlib

greg_burns said:


> ...Hearing a lot of chatter about this drive too...
> 
> WD1001FALS
> http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=488
> 
> But is seems to be more expensive than even the EVCS...


The Black series are the new high-performance desktop drives (true 7200RPM) from WD and would be of no advantage in the TiVo especially with the added noise, heat and power consumption. It will not make your TiVo operate faster. Stay with the Green series EACS/EVCS.

It looks like the current street price on the EACS is $129.99 with free shipping (assuming one buys from a non-taxable source). Sweet!


----------



## azmp1

Thank you folks for all the responces, and i do agree on the recertified point, $20 just isn't worth it...

Anyway, ordered an EACS from newegg today, upgrade fun upcoming!


----------



## husky55

How time has changed. I thought $200 for my WD was a steal a few months back. But Olympic HD recordings were worth it for me. Still watching them, still happy.


----------



## sariemerci

richsadams said:


> ...Also, it apparently does not come with an eSATA cable so you'd have to buy one. The recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable is less than $10.
> 
> As far as the drive, there are only a limited amount of hard drive manufacturers and AFAIK, only one making a "green" drive series, Western Digital. My money says it's a WD10EACS in a Fantom case. WD has just upgraded that drive from a four to a three platter and may be getting rid of the older models. Nothing wrong with them though, particularly for use as an eSATA drive for TiVo. The one we have has been flawless for about 9 months now.
> 
> The fact that the case doesn't have a fan is of concern, but others here are satisfied with fanless enclosures. Enclosures without fans should have plenty of air circulation and not be placed on or near other heat-generating CE equipment. Also as you mentioned, it needs to have a "hard" on/off switch so it will power back on after a blackout (best to use a UPS, but you never know). ...


I called Micronet (the manufacturer) about this 1TB Fantom Green Drive (GD1000ED).

They said that, while they buy from WD, Hitachi, and Seagate, "WD is the only manufacturer who currently makes a hard drive that is compatible with green technologies." In other words, while the guy couldn't directly tell me who makes the hard drives, he pretty much confirmed richsadams suspcion.

They also said that the power switch is a hard one (i.e. will power up when power resumes after a blackout), and that the drives are designed to be used 24/7. He also said that the 60% power reduction helps keep things cooler than other drives that require fans. And it does come with an eSATA II cable -- not that they're expensive anyway.

I ordered mine today. Wish me luck!


----------



## richsadams

sariemerci said:


> I called Micronet (the manufacturer) about this 1TB Fantom Green Drive (GD1000ED).
> 
> They said that, while they buy from WD, Hitachi, and Seagate, "WD is the only manufacturer who currently makes a hard drive that is compatible with green technologies." In other words, while the guy couldn't directly tell me who makes the hard drives, he pretty much confirmed richsadams suspcion.
> 
> They also said that the power switch is a hard one (i.e. will power up when power resumes after a blackout), and that the drives are designed to be used 24/7. He also said that the 60% power reduction helps keep things cooler than other drives that require fans. And it does come with an eSATA II cable -- not that they're expensive anyway.
> 
> I ordered mine today. Wish me luck!


Nice...and best of luck! :up:


----------



## supie

Hi,

When I got my 3rd S3 Tivo I used the original drive for the first two weeks, and then I installed aWD10EACS-32ZJBO 1TB Drive using MSFLive. Placing the original drive on the shelf.

It has been a 1 ½ months trying to get the cable cards working to no avail. So Tivo determined that the Tivo Box was defective and that I should exchange it.

So now I need to pull the upgraded 1TB drive and put the original back in and have the following questions:

*Reinstall Original Drive:*
1. Do I just remove the 1TB and reinstall the Original Drive with the two weeks of content on it?
2. Is there anything special I need to do to reinstall the Original Drive?
I did make a truncated backup of the Original Drive, so I have it if necessary.

*Move Upgraded MFSLive Drive from One Tivo to Another:*
1. If you move a MFSLive drive from one Tivo to another does it lose all its shows (an/or data)?
2. Can I make a truncated backup of the 1TB and restore for the New Tivo?
3. On the 1TB, should I remove all content from the drive before moving?
4. Will I have the have the cable cards paired and authorized?
5. Is there anything else I need to do?

*Cable Card Problems History:*
Prior to installing the new drive, I had the cable company come to install the cable cards, they did not work, after the first 2 sets of cable cards, I installed the 1TB Drive. The cable company has been here many times since, trying over 5 sets of cable cards, none would work. The problem is the Tivo only receives the BASIC CHANNELS and the BROADCAST HD CHANNELS. Channels 2-99 and 781-788 work.

I am subscribed to (but not getting) all the Premium (HBO, Showtime, Starz, Encore, etc) Movie View, and HD View (all the rest of HD Channels). On the bad channels, I see the Channel info but not the show, the screen is black.

I called Tivo for help and after many tests THEY DETERMINED THAT THE TIVO IS DEFECTIVE and the only way to fix it was to exchange it. But because it was over 30 days old this is done at an Exchange Cost of $89.00 plus Tax.

Thanks in Advance.


----------



## ThAbtO

Did you repeat guided setup after cable cards were installed and initalized? I heard you need to do that.


----------



## supie

ThAbtO said:


> Did you repeat guided setup after cable cards were installed and initalized? I heard you need to do that.


Yes after every new set of cable cards.

Thanks


----------



## bgermann

So I'm ready to add 1 tb WD drive to my S3HD. I would like to use the MX-1 enclosure, but all the online stores I look at list it as only operating w/ max capacity of 750TB. I've seen in various posts many folks using this case for 1tb drives, my question, is there more than one type/model of the Mx-1? Thanks for the help/info.


----------



## eskay

bgermann said:


> So I'm ready to add 1 tb WD drive to my S3HD. I would like to use the MX-1 enclosure, but all the online stores I look at list it as only operating w/ max capacity of 750TB. I've seen in various posts many folks using this case for 1tb drives, my question, is there more than one type/model of the Mx-1? Thanks for the help/info.


On the Antec web site, it says, "Note: The MX-1 supports 1 TB hard drives. MX-1 was released before 1TB hard drives were available, so early reviews of the MX-1 mention it supporting up to 750GB drives simply because those were the largest hard drives available at the time."


----------



## richsadams

I'm waiting for someone to pop one of the new 1.5TB drives in and see what happens!


----------



## dwit

richsadams said:


> I'm waiting for someone to pop one of the new 1.5TB drives in and see what happens!


Already reported failure on at least 1 S3, in the upgrade forum. Not getting past the first welcome screen, iirc.

My 1.5TB is scheduled to be delivered today. If I have the chance(Tivo always recording), I plan to test in my Tivo HD sometime today or tommorrow.

The drive is really for my pc. Just curious also about the useability in Tivo.


----------



## richsadams

dwit said:


> Already reported failure on at least 1 S3, in the upgrade forum. Not getting past the first welcome screen, iirc.
> 
> My 1.5TB is scheduled to be delivered today. If I have the chance(Tivo always recording), I plan to test in my Tivo HD sometime today or tommorrow.
> 
> The drive is really for my pc. Just curious also about the useability in Tivo.


Ah...missed that one. Thanks for using your TiVo as a guinea pig. Wonder if 1.5TB just won't work as an internal upgrade, as an expansion drive or no matter what or if it's drive specific? Will your experiment be as an internal upgrade or eSATA? Hope it works, but if not let us know the details, brand, model, etc., etc. so we can have your valuable datapoint going forward. :up:


----------



## dwit

richsadams said:


> Ah...missed that one. Thanks for using your TiVo as a guinea pig. Wonder if 1.5TB just won't work as an internal upgrade, as an expansion drive or no matter what or if it's drive specific? Will your experiment be as an internal upgrade or eSATA? Hope it works, but if not let us know the details, brand, model, etc., etc. so we can have your valuable datapoint going forward. :up:


I think I remember reading somewhere(?) that it wouldn't work. Don't know if it was Spike or whomever. Think it was something about the mfs file system(?).

Well, within an hour and a half of my post above, the drive arrived and I had it prepared(restored from truncated backup image 9.2a) and installed internally, as a single drive(no external expansion) inside my Tivo HD. Used winmfs, beta 8.

Result was the same as reported in the thread I referenced above: Powers up, gets to the "...few minutes more" screen, reboot...

No luck upgrading to Seagate 7200.11 1.5 TB on S3 .

Also curious about external use only for the 1.5TB, but a litttle too much hassel for me to check, as the drive is really for my pc. Maybe out of boredom, I'll try it later.

For now, just preparing to scan the drive for errors, as I ordered from Newegg and received their (still) typical bare drive, sloppy packing. Seemed adequate, but still...


----------



## richsadams

Too bad...wonder why the mfs file system would care what size the drive is? IIRC S3's can't go over 2TB and THD's 2.2TB's or so, so upgrading to a 1.5TB internal seems like it should work. Adding a 1.5TB eSATA to our S3 which already has a 1TB internal probably wouldn't work. Hmmmm. No real need for that much space, but it would be nice to know if it's a drive or TiVo issue. In any case, thanks for trying!


----------



## dwit

richsadams said:


> Too bad...wonder why the mfs file system would care what size the drive is? IIRC S3's can't go over 2TB and THD's 2.2TB's or so, so upgrading to a 1.5TB internal seems like it should work. Adding a 1.5TB eSATA to our S3 which already has a 1TB internal probably wouldn't work. Hmmmm. No real need for that much space, but it would be nice to know if it's a drive or TiVo issue. In any case, thanks for trying!


I might be wrong about it not working, or why it won't work, or who may have said it won't work.

Hopefully we'll hear from a few more testers to confirm one way or the other.


----------



## dwit

First report of success. At least here in these forums? Has me wondering what I did wrong. Maybe copying over the newer os?

Post# 305:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6706852&posted=1#post6706852


----------



## jlib

Which may have been premature.


----------



## dwit

jlib said:


> Which may have been premature.


I saw. Well, at least he got it to boot(at least once).


----------



## DallasFlier

> TiVo Internal Upgrade Instructions: Preserves Settings and Recordings
> 
> These instructions are for use under Windows XP SP2 and Windows Vista only. Do not use these instructions with previous versions of Windows.
> 
> 1. Remove the outer case and existing drive using a torx screwdriver in the T10 size. If you don't have one of appropriate length, you can purchase the Star Driver T10 Ampro (9014713) from Advance Auto Parts for about $4.
> 
> 2. Download WinMFS here.
> 
> 3. Shut down Windows, turn off your computer, and connect the TiVo's built-in SATA drive and your new replacement SATA drive. You can open your computer and connect both with SATA cables, or you can connect them externally using a pair of SATA->USB adapters. Both drives should be connected to your PC at the same time.
> 
> If your computer does not already have SATA ports, consider using a PCI SATA controller board. One user reports a 25x increase in data transfer speed by using SATA instead of USB6 hours to transfer 750GB of data vs. 6 days.
> 
> 4. Turn on your computer and launch WinMFS. If using Windows Vista, you'll want to launch WinMFS by right-clicking on WinMFS.exe and selecting "Run as Administrator."
> 
> 5. In WinMFS, click 'Select Drive' and select the two drives you attached. Set 'Drive A' to the original drive. Do not select 'Drive B.
> 
> 6. In WinMFS, select the 'Backup' option to create a backup. Save the file to your hard drive for backup purposes.
> 
> You don't use this now. It's a backup for future use, should anything ever go wrong.
> 
> 7. In WinMFS, designate the original drive, selected as 'A,' as the Source Drive A and the new drive as Destination Drive A."
> 
> 8. Select Tools -> Mfscopy to copy the full contents of the old drive -- including all recordings -- to the new.
> 
> When using USB->SATA adapters, this copy process can take as long as several days depending on the number of recordings on your original drive. WinMFS does not refresh its GUI during this process, so it may appear to hang, but it is still working as intended. If you want to monitor the progress of WinMFS' copying, use 'Ctrl+Alt-Del' to invoke the Windows Task Manager, then navigate to 'Bytes In' and 'Bytes Out.'
> 
> 9. After the copy is complete, select Tools-> Mfsadd.
> 
> 10. Select Tools-> MfsSuperSize -> On.
> 
> 11. Shutdown your computer and disconnect the drives.
> 
> 12. Reinstall the internal drive and replace the TiVo's outer case.
> 
> 13. You're done. Store your original TiVo drive in a safe place.


I confess I didn't read through the entire 60 pages of this thread, so it may have been mentioned before, but the above instructions, if followed exactly, are missing one step, between 9. and 10.

I just upgraded my internal drive using a WD 1TB Green. When I put it back in and booted, it showed 131 HD hours, not 144 as it should. The problem is, in the above instructions, before step 10 you have to go in and select the destination drive first with WinMFS--> File--> Select Drive. Otherwise, you're supersizing the (currently selected) source drive, not the destination drive.

I suspected, and fortunately my SATA and power cables were long enough to just unplug the TiVo cable and plug in the PC cables without removing the drive again. So I plugged it back into the PC, selected the correct drive, supersized and now it reports 144 hours, as it should.

I checked, and the OP hasn't logged in for 3 months or so. If someone could edit the first post where the instructions are at, it would prevent others from running into the issue I did.


----------



## richsadams

DallasFlier said:


> I confess I didn't read through the entire 60 pages of this thread, so it may have been mentioned before, but the above instructions, if followed exactly, are missing one step, between 9. and 10. <snip>


Nice catch. I don't recall doing that step after checking the "Supersize" option, but I must have. I think I was using the original winMFS instructions at the time. In any case, hopefully *bkdtv* is still reading these and can update it.

Thanks for that and enjoy your new found space! :up:


----------



## susani8

Okay, my Fantom GreenDrive 1TB eSATA External Hard Drive arrived yesterday. I connected it to my Series 3 last evening and it connected without a hitch. MUCH easier than the old "kickstart" days! It does indeed have a hard on/off switch and though it doesn't have a fan, it's very well ventilated and the case and stand are all aluminum. It now says I have 165 HD hours available! Yea! I turned the suggestions on and it's been recording almost non-stop since hookup and there is very little disk noise, and only a slight warming of the case. So far, I'm very happy with this purchase!


----------



## richsadams

susani8 said:


> Okay, my Fantom GreenDrive 1TB eSATA External Hard Drive arrived yesterday. <snip>


Excellent! :up: I'm really glad to hear that it's working out. If you ever get a chance to peek inside, I know a number of folks would be interested in knowing what brand (assuming WD) and model are inside of it.

I have found a good deal more info about Fantom expansion drives and they seem to be a respected brand with good reviews. :up:

Congrats and enjoy! 

Oh...keep an eye on your mailbox for your TiVo Pioneer T-shirt!


----------



## zordude

Thanks to everyone that has contributed to S3 upgrade discussions, I read everything last night 

I just finished my upgrade, I decided late last night to upgrade my S3, and since I had the bug it had to be done RIGHT NOW  and I wasn't willing to buy one of the green drives in the FAQ and then have to wait 6+ days to receive it, so I had to use a drive I could buy at BestBuy.

I went to the store and picked up the WD10000LSRTL since I had seen a post by TivoRocks193 that said he used it and it worked fine.

So I buy the drive, I triple checked the model # on the bottom of the packaging.

I come home, rip everything apart, don't pay much attention to the drive.. UNTIL I go to select it. The model # printed on the drive sticker is WD1001FALS - I freaked out!

After some furious searching, I discover that WD1001FALS is the model of the drive and WD10000LSRTL is the designation of the retail kit.

The full model # of the drive was WD1001FALS-00J7B.

Everything works great, I did several soft reboots, did not move recordings.

Z


----------



## richsadams

zordude said:


> Thanks to everyone that has contributed to S3 upgrade discussions, I read everything last night
> 
> I just finished my upgrade, <snip>


Thanks for the report, the data point on the drive and congratulations! :up:

BTW, I was born with "Gotta do it now" syndrome as well and it's our cross to bear. Stand tall my man, proud and tall.


----------



## Teeps

susani8 said:


> Okay, my Fantom GreenDrive 1TB eSATA External Hard Drive arrived yesterday. I connected it to my Series 3 last evening and it connected without a hitch.


Is this the guy?

Fantom GreenDrive 1TB USB 2.0 and eSATA External Hard Drive - 2 Year Warranty! - GD1000EU

http://www.buy.com/prod/fantom-gree...al-hard-drive-2-year/q/loc/101/208503758.html


----------



## susani8

Teeps said:


> Is this the guy?
> 
> Fantom GreenDrive 1TB USB 2.0 and eSATA External Hard Drive - 2 Year Warranty! - GD1000EU
> 
> http://www.buy.com/prod/fantom-gree...al-hard-drive-2-year/q/loc/101/208503758.html


That's the one, comes with a $20 rebate.

Interesting - the tivo lists it as WDS WD10EACS (I wonder if that's what is inside the enclosure). I'm not cracking it open to see, though


----------



## richsadams

susani8 said:


> That's the one, comes with a $20 rebate.
> 
> Interesting - the tivo lists it as WDS WD10EACS (I wonder if that's what is inside the enclosure). I'm not cracking it open to see, though


D'oh! Hadn't thought about checking the System Information screen.  It does indeed list the actual drive in a Fantom enclosure. Soooo...yes, as I suspected it is in fact a Western Digital WD10EACS GP "green" drive. Mystery solved.

That's actually a very good price with the rebate then, cheaper than a bare drive and you get the eSATA enclosure to boot! Well done. :up:


----------



## richsadams

susani8 said:


> That's the one, comes with a $20 rebate.
> 
> Interesting - the tivo lists it as WDS WD10EACS (I wonder if that's what is inside the enclosure). I'm not cracking it open to see, though


Forgot to ask...did it come with an eSATA cable like the Fantom CSR told you? One of the buy.com reviews from Sept. 2nd said that it didn't come with one (which would impact the price by about an additional $10). TIA


----------



## journeyman

richsadams said:


> Forgot to ask...did it come with an eSATA cable like the Fantom CSR told you? One of the buy.com reviews from Sept. 2nd said that it didn't come with one (which would impact the price by about an additional $10). TIA


No, I opened mine - USB cable yes, Esata cable, No.

Ebay seller doing the recommended Siig cable here - comes out to $11.50 for one.

BTW, setup on an original Series 3 (not the later Tivo HD model) went flawlessly. Recognized it, set it up, it's been running good for 3 days now.


----------



## sariemerci

richsadams said:


> Forgot to ask...did it come with an eSATA cable like the Fantom CSR told you? One of the buy.com reviews from Sept. 2nd said that it didn't come with one (which would impact the price by about an additional $10). TIA


My 1TB Fantom did NOT come with the eSATA cable. Instead, it came with a USB cable and a little note to correcting the manual's references of 'the included eSATA cable' to say 'the eSATA cable'. I suspect that the CSR was reading the manual when he told me it came with one, so it's probably not his fault.... I just ran to the local computer store and bought a cable for $10. I've seen some on Amazon for $6. It's still an excellent deal even after you've bought a cable.

Like susani, I added my drive to my Series 3 without a hitch. I now have 165 hours of HD recording, and thousands of hours of SD. How on earth will I ever pull myself away from the TV?

The drive is not completely silent -- it makes a soft ticking noise when it writes -- but it's not loud or distracting. It doesn't seem to get too hot, but I'm keeping it ouside of my enclosure just to be safe. I have plenty of room behind the thing where it won't be seen and can have just a bit more air circulation... And now that we're "positive" that it's the good WD in a Fantom case, I couldn't be happier with my selection. Or the price -- I got it on buy.com's special ($150 - $20 rebate -$5 new customer coupon = $125).

Go Fantom!


----------



## richsadams

Congrats to the new Fantom Pioneers! Hopefully *bkdtv* will add this one to the "recommended" list of expansion drives.

Based on your glowing recommendations I'm placing my order today! :up:


----------



## GregComeLately

Well, I guess I'm going to be the Samsung HD103UI EcoGreen 1TB guinea pig. Since it's still unknown whether or not the latest incarnations of the WD GP drive will work in a S3 Tivo, I've opted for this new Samsung equivalent.

It appears to be well received in last weeks Toms Hardware comparative review of Samsung 1TB drives, suggesting similar (and in some respects better) low heat, low energy consumption, low noise performance attributes when compared to the WD GP drives.

Ordered it today via NewEgg for $119.99 delivered, plus another 1% ($3) off of that by going thru the livesearch engine. Yes, I could have gone for that other WD GP model which is supposedly geared specifically for use in DVRs, but from my readings here, other than ensuring compatibility with the S3, there was nothing feature-wise to be gained by going that route. And I'd rather pay $117 than $150-ish, especially if there's not likely to be any performance difference. Time will tell in terms of drive stability/longevity. Wish me luck! (for as long as I've been checking in on this thread, this will be my first Tivo upgrade ever! )


----------



## richsadams

GregComeLately said:


> Well, I guess I'm going to be the Samsung HD103UI EcoGreen 1TB guinea pig. <snip>


Nice...and a good price! :up: I've never used them, but I haven't seen anything negative about Samsung drives. Let us know the details, how quiet it is, if you decide to adjust the acoustics, how hot it gets, if it'll wash your car, etc. And of course...if it works!  I bet it'll work just fine.

Best of luck!


----------



## GregComeLately

Thanks, Rich. Of course, I'll report back with some feedback at some point. I hope to get this thing installed before I leave for a two week "business trip" next week (hence, another reason for getting this thing done now as two weeks of program accumulation will overtax my original 250 gig drive).

I'll likely report back after having spent some time with it in use upon my return. Or make that _sooner_, if I manage to screw something up with the install.


----------



## jlib

zordude said:


> ...After some furious searching, I discover that WD1001FALS is the model of the drive and WD10000LSRTL is the designation of the retail kit.
> 
> The full model # of the drive was WD1001FALS-00J7B.
> 
> Everything works great, I did several soft reboots, did not move recordings.


It should work fine for you then. Thanks for being the pioneer on that model. Note that this is a drive that could really benefit from running the Hitachi Feature Tool to adjust the AAM head seek setting since it is a high-performance full blown 7200RPM drive hence much noisier and hotter than its cousin (at least according to the specs). I haven't heard one in person.


----------



## bkdtv

richsadams said:


> Congrats to the new Fantom Pioneers! Hopefully *bkdtv* will add this one to the "recommended" list of expansion drives.





DallasFlier said:


> If someone could edit the first post where the instructions are at, it would prevent others from running into the issue I did.


I haven't been around the forum much lately, so the first post is in dire need of an update.

Any other suggestions for changes?


----------



## richsadams

bkdtv said:


> I haven't been around the forum much lately, so the first post is in dire need of an update.
> 
> Any other suggestions for changes?


Welcome back!  AFAIK those were the only two requests, but someone here may think of something else.

Thanks for taking the time...there are many folks here that appreciate your hard work. :up: :up: :up:


----------



## More_Storage

I upgraded my internal drive to a 750GB using WinMFS without issue, but neglected to MfsSuperSize the drive.

Does anyone have any experience with running MfsSuperSize on a drive after it is already in use?

The goal is to pull the drive, run MfsSuperSize to get more space without effecting the recordings on the disk.

Thanks in advance...


----------



## dwit

More_Storage said:


> I upgraded my internal drive to a 750GB using WinMFS without issue, but neglected to MfsSuperSize the drive.
> 
> Does anyone have any experience with running MfsSuperSize on a drive after it is already in use?
> 
> The goal is to pull the drive, run MfsSuperSize to get more space without effecting the recordings on the disk.
> 
> Thanks in advance...


Exactly, and as simple as your last statement:

1. Connect drive to pc. Open winmfs.(Check mfsinfo for capacity info, if desired).
2. Sselect "Supersize".

3. You should get a "pop up" saying drive has been supersized.

4. Check mfsinfo again to verify supersize capacity.

This is simply the last step(that many forget) when doing a truncated backup/restore or a full mfscopy. It can be done later, at any time.


----------



## lrhorer

bkdtv said:


> I haven't been around the forum much lately, so the first post is in dire need of an update.
> 
> Any other suggestions for changes?


I know that the Hitachi Deskstar 500G SATA drive will *not* work as a primary drive in a TiVo HD. I don't think it's on the list of drives kno9wn not to work.


----------



## susani8

richsadams said:


> Forgot to ask...did it come with an eSATA cable like the Fantom CSR told you? One of the buy.com reviews from Sept. 2nd said that it didn't come with one (which would impact the price by about an additional $10). TIA


 I haven't checked in for the past couple of days - sorry! But like the others said, my drive did not come with an eSata cord, I already had one from a defunct My DVR Expander (2 months past warrantee of course), so hook-up was immediate and easy. Best $130 I've spent in a while... I picked up a Cavalry 500 gb drive for my first s3 when the kickstart was first disclosed - and, though it continues to work like a champ, it is VERY noisy. It will also freeze up if I turn on the suggestions - it can't take constant writing/erasing. So, since I wanted to really test out the Fantom, I, of course, turned the suggestions on. I have 150 suggestions to date, it's recording almost constantly, and no glitches - if anything it's been quieter (either fewer of the clicking sounds, or I'm getting so used to it I don't hear it anymore), it's in my bedroom and the slight sound doesn't bother me at all. It's still only slightly warm to the touch. So far, testing is coming out positive!:up:


----------



## dwit

susani8 said:


> I haven't checked in for the past couple of days - sorry! But like the others said, my drive did not come with an eSata cord, I already had one from a defunct My DVR Expander (2 months past warrantee of course), so hook-up was immediate and easy. Best $130 I've spent in a while... I picked up a Cavalry 500 gb drive for my first s3 when the kickstart was first disclosed - and, though it continues to work like a champ, it is VERY noisy. It will also freeze up if I turn on the suggestions - it can't take constant writing/erasing. So, since I wanted to really test out the Fantom, I, of course, turned the suggestions on. I have 150 suggestions to date, it's recording almost constantly, and no glitches - if anything it's been quieter (either fewer of the clicking sounds, or I'm getting so used to it I don't hear it anymore), it's in my bedroom and the slight sound doesn't bother me at all. It's still only slightly warm to the touch. So far, testing is coming out positive!:up:


Is that Cavalry drive a WD? If so, it possibly has a 3yr warranty. You can check it at the WD warranty support web site. Just enter the serial number on the bare drive label.


----------



## Teeps

richsadams said:


> D'oh! Hadn't thought about checking the System Information screen.  It does indeed list the actual drive in a Fantom enclosure. Soooo...yes, as I suspected it is in fact a Western Digital WD10EACS GP "green" drive. Mystery solved.
> 
> That's actually a very good price with the rebate then, cheaper than a bare drive and you get the eSATA enclosure to boot! Well done. :up:


Based on info from this page, I bought a Fantom Drive. I connected it to my PC via the usb port to make sure it powers on and can read/write.
According to the Device manager: there is a WD10EACS-65d6b0 hdd in the enclosure. 
And the Fantom Drive company is about 2 miles from my home!


----------



## susani8

dwit said:


> Is that Cavalry drive a WD? If so, it possibly has a 3yr warranty. You can check it at the WD warranty support web site. Just enter the serial number on the bare drive label.


Hmmm - never thought about that - I just live with it. I'll check it out, thanks!


----------



## richsadams

susani8 said:


> I haven't checked in for the past couple of days - sorry! But like the others said, my drive did not come with an eSata cord, I already had one from a defunct My DVR Expander (2 months past warrantee of course), so hook-up was immediate and easy. Best $130 I've spent in a while... I picked up a Cavalry 500 gb drive for my first s3 when the kickstart was first disclosed - and, though it continues to work like a champ, it is VERY noisy. It will also freeze up if I turn on the suggestions - it can't take constant writing/erasing. So, since I wanted to really test out the Fantom, I, of course, turned the suggestions on. I have 150 suggestions to date, it's recording almost constantly, and no glitches - if anything it's been quieter (either fewer of the clicking sounds, or I'm getting so used to it I don't hear it anymore), it's in my bedroom and the slight sound doesn't bother me at all. It's still only slightly warm to the touch. So far, testing is coming out positive!:up:


Excellent! :up:


----------



## bkdtv

How do you guys feel I should modify the FAQ to reflect the growing number of issues reported with external drives under the 9.4 software?

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=402590


----------



## richsadams

bkdtv said:


> How do you guys feel I should modify the FAQ to reflect the growing number of issues reported with external drives under the 9.4 software?
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=402590


I completely missed that thread...thanks! After slogging through the posts I'm not convinced that it's a v9.4 issue but more of an issue with the expansion drives. Some are adamant that it is, others just as adamant that it's not.

In my small way of thinking it would seem that if it is a v9.4 issue that everyone that has an eSATA drive connected should have seen a problem upon the upgrade. Just as with the "normal" internal drive problems after an upgrade, I suspect that the same rule of thumb would apply to external drives acting up or failing. There are people chiming in very recently about issues with their external drives...long after v9.4 was installed. Some folks are saying that they have no problems at all using identical components.

I won't disagree that something in v9.4 could trigger a latent problem but I can't imagine what it would be. To me it should be problematic to everyone or no one, not just some (unless it's local, signal/cable cards, etc.).

I know that doesn't answer your question, but I'm not sure what the caveat would be since it doesn't affect everyone and those it does affect have various eSATA drives connected including the approved WD My DVR Expander. Hmmmm.

BTW, thanks again for your hard work on your original post...there are a LOT of folks here that are very grateful. (Of course if there's now a problem...they might blame you!   )


----------



## Joe3

:up::up:


bkdtv said:


> How do you guys feel I should modify the FAQ to reflect the growing number of issues reported with external drives under the 9.4 software?
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=402590


Go for it, if you are willing to do the leg work trying to recreate some of the problems.

No problem for years until 9.4 then Pro 750 becomes a trukey???

Green Screen attack during the last debate is the last straw.

You gave us room with your hack on our new TiVo 3 well in advance of the limited space roll out of the laughable 500G "Spandexer"

We trust you.


----------



## richsadams

Joe3 said:


> No problem for years until 9.4 then Pro 750 becomes a trukey??? Green Screen attack during the last debate is the last straw.


You've had a Seagate FAP 750 connected to your Series3 for..._years_?!  (IIRC it was along about May 07 and you were one of the people that brought the FAP's inadequate/short connector SATA cable to everyone's attention :up:.) Probably seems like years though.

FAP's have had a spotty record since day one so I guess it's nice that it's worked at least up until now anyway. So are you assuming it's something to do with the the FAP and not your internal drive? Did you divorce it, run any diagnostics, etc.?

Seriously, best of luck whatever it is. I hope things work out for you.


----------



## djherzik

Is there an easy way to add a non supported drive (like kickstart 62)?


----------



## greg_burns

djherzik said:


> Is there an easy way to add a non supported drive (like kickstart 62)?


Nope. Gotta use WinMFS. Which isn't hard to do, but requires hooking your drives to a PC.


----------



## dpoterek

What if you just backup the boot page and restore it to the new drive?


----------



## nycstartupfiend

I just tried adding an eSATA seagate drive to my Tivo Series 3. the first time i added the drive (powered off the Tivo, turned on the seagate and then turned on the Tivo Series 3) the Tivo booted properly and found the drive (it was listed in the "External Drive" section of System Information). I had not yet found the instructions on how to add the drive from the first page of this thread/FAQ (i.e. Enable the eSATA drive through the Settings -> Remote, CableCARD, and Devices -> External Storage menu. Screenshots: #1, #2, #3.) thinking instead that I was supposed to see a prompt for adding the drive during the startup process. 

So I then proceeded to shut down the Tivo and the Seagate eSATA external drive and redo the whole thing in the hopes that on the 2nd attempt during the startup process it would give me a prompt to add the drive. Unfortunately, it did not and instead, the Tivo just hung/froze on its very first screen during bootup. (in fact, it hung overnight - i let it sit that way last night hoping that it just had to take its time because it had to format the external drive or something). 

So now i'm stuck and not really sure what to do. Note that if I unplug the eSata drive from the Tivo, the Tivo boots properly and rapidly. 

Anyone have any ideas?

thanks!

Elie


----------



## Geowolf

Hello all,
I recently purchased a WD10EVCS and two SATA USB adapters:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E6NGBU

I'm attempting to follow the instructions in the sticky posting:


bkdtv said:


> 7. In WinMFS, designate the original drive, selected as 'A,' as the Source Drive A and the new drive as Destination Drive A."
> 
> 8. Select Tools -> Mfscopy to copy the full contents of the old drive -- including all recordings -- to the new.
> 
> When using USB->SATA adapters, this copy process can take as long as several days depending on the number of recordings on your original drive. WinMFS does not refresh its GUI during this process, so it may appear to hang, but it is still working as intended. If you want to monitor the progress of WinMFS' copying, use 'Ctrl+Alt-Del' to invoke the Windows Task Manager, then navigate to 'Bytes In' and 'Bytes Out.'
> 
> 9. After the copy is complete, select Tools-> Mfsadd.
> 
> 10. Select the destination drive with File--> Select Drive.
> 
> 11. Select Tools-> MfsSuperSize -> On.


The problem occurs for me when I hit step 9. Step 8, the Mfscopy completes successfully. I close the associated dialog and then choose Tools-> Mfsadd and choose OK in the resulting "are you sure" dialog. Mfsadd immediately returns an error that says something to the effect of the operation couldn't be performed (I don't have the exact wording - see below).

The first time I hit this I tried various things, but eventually I managed to make WinMFS mad enough at me that it no longer recognized the destination drive as a TiVo drive (I basically tried various combinations to get Mfsadd and/or MfsSuperSize to take effect).

I then gave up, and redid the Mfscopy step. Again, after completing step 8, step 9 (without selecting any drive other than the previous selections of source and destination) Mfsadd returned an error. This time selecting the destination drive (i.e. doing step 10) and then doing step 9 got Mfsadd to do something, however WinMFS crashed after it was done and subsequent attempts to select the destination drive cause WinMFS to crash.

Right now I'm redoing the Mfscopy step again. I'm wondering if there's something I'm missing. Am I correct in understanding (as per the directions) that people expect the Mfsadd step to work immediately after closing the Mfscopy dialog without the need to select the destination drive (i.e. step 9 immediately after step 8 with no need to do step 10 first)?

I'm not sure where I'm messing up, I'm usually good with these sorts of things . Any advice or alternate directions would be appreciated. (Please forgive me if my description is muddled - doing this process for a third time has left me frazzled).

Regards,
G


----------



## PhiTauBill

Geowolf said:


> Hello all,
> I recently purchased a WD10EVCS and two SATA USB adapters:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E6NGBU
> 
> I'm attempting to follow the instructions in the sticky posting:
> 
> The problem occurs for me when I hit step 9. Step 8, the Mfscopy completes successfully. I close the associated dialog and then choose Tools-> Mfsadd and choose OK in the resulting "are you sure" dialog. Mfsadd immediately returns an error that says something to the effect of the operation couldn't be performed (I don't have the exact wording - see below).
> 
> The first time I hit this I tried various things, but eventually I managed to make WinMFS mad enough at me that it no longer recognized the destination drive as a TiVo drive (I basically tried various combinations to get Mfsadd and/or MfsSuperSize to take effect).
> 
> I then gave up, and redid the Mfscopy step. Again, after completing step 8, step 9 (without selecting any drive other than the previous selections of source and destination) Mfsadd returned an error. This time selecting the destination drive (i.e. doing step 10) and then doing step 9 got Mfsadd to do something, however WinMFS crashed after it was done and subsequent attempts to select the destination drive cause WinMFS to crash.
> 
> Right now I'm redoing the Mfscopy step again. I'm wondering if there's something I'm missing. Am I correct in understanding (as per the directions) that people expect the Mfsadd step to work immediately after closing the Mfscopy dialog without the need to select the destination drive (i.e. step 9 immediately after step 8 with no need to do step 10 first)?
> 
> I'm not sure where I'm messing up, I'm usually good with these sorts of things . Any advice or alternate directions would be appreciated. (Please forgive me if my description is muddled - doing this process for a third time has left me frazzled).
> 
> Regards,
> G


Yikes, I am in the middle of mfscopy onto the WD10EVCS right now (although I have my drives hooked directly to the mobo through SATA connection)... my original TiVoHD drive is pretty full, so it will likely be a few hours until mfscopy is complete. I'll let you know if I experience the same issue when I go to do mfsadd.

On another topic, anyone know about how long it generally takes to move all of the recordings and setting from a full 160gb drive? This thing has been at it for 3 hours now, and the winmfs GUI appears to be hung. I/O read bytes (10+ GB) seem to still be climbing, but I've been here for 15 minutes, and I/O Write bytes (9+GB) haven't moved one bit... does it write in periodic batches?

Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

nycstartupfiend said:


> I just tried adding an eSATA seagate drive to my Tivo Series 3. the first time i added the drive (powered off the Tivo, turned on the seagate and then turned on the Tivo Series 3) the Tivo booted properly and found the drive (it was listed in the "External Drive" section of System Information). I had not yet found the instructions on how to add the drive from the first page of this thread/FAQ (i.e. Enable the eSATA drive through the Settings -> Remote, CableCARD, and Devices -> External Storage menu. Screenshots: #1, #2, #3.) thinking instead that I was supposed to see a prompt for adding the drive during the startup process.
> 
> So I then proceeded to shut down the Tivo and the Seagate eSATA external drive and redo the whole thing in the hopes that on the 2nd attempt during the startup process it would give me a prompt to add the drive. Unfortunately, it did not and instead, the Tivo just hung/froze on its very first screen during bootup. (in fact, it hung overnight - i let it sit that way last night hoping that it just had to take its time because it had to format the external drive or something).
> 
> So now i'm stuck and not really sure what to do. Note that if I unplug the eSata drive from the Tivo, the Tivo boots properly and rapidly.
> 
> Anyone have any ideas?
> 
> thanks!
> 
> Elie


Welcome to the forum! Sorry to hear that you ran into a bit of trouble adding your expansion drive. You (actually TiVo) had it right the first time. If the drive was listed in your System Information it was operational...no need for the "acknowledgment" screens. IIRC only the TiVo HD will display the prompt screens.

So you should be able to do the same thing again. Unplug TiVo, connect the eSATA cable from your eSATA drive, power up your eSATA drive (give it a good 10- 15 seconds to come up to speed), plug TiVo back in and you should be in business. Verify the new hours of HD and SD in the System Information Screen and that should do it.

If it still hangs the cable may be loose, etc. Make sure everything is snug. If it hangs there's no reason to wait (formatting the external drive takes a few seconds), just unplug it and try again.

The only caveat...Seagate Free Agent Pro (FAP) drives are known to be problematic. If that's the type of drive you have and you still have problems you might want to return it and get one of the drives from the recommended list on the first post of this thread.

Good luck and let us know how it goes! :up:


----------



## richsadams

PhiTauBill said:


> On another topic, anyone know about how long it generally takes to move all of the recordings and setting from a full 160gb drive? This thing has been at it for 3 hours now, and the winmfs GUI appears to be hung. I/O read bytes (10+ GB) seem to still be climbing, but I've been here for 15 minutes, and I/O Write bytes (9+GB) haven't moved one bit... does it write in periodic batches?
> 
> Thanks!


The winMFS GUI will appear to hang during long copy periods, but it's not, so unless you're positive that there is zero activity for an extended period of time, it's best to let it keep working. Copying everything over can take several hours. The MFSLive.org forum has a number of postings that can give you more details as well.


----------



## richsadams

Geowolf said:


> Hello all,
> I recently purchased a WD10EVCS and two SATA USB adapters:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E6NGBU
> 
> I'm attempting to follow the instructions in the sticky posting:
> 
> The problem occurs for me when I hit step 9. Step 8, the Mfscopy completes successfully. I close the associated dialog and then choose Tools-> Mfsadd and choose OK in the resulting "are you sure" dialog. Mfsadd immediately returns an error that says something to the effect of the operation couldn't be performed (I don't have the exact wording - see below).
> 
> The first time I hit this I tried various things, but eventually I managed to make WinMFS mad enough at me that it no longer recognized the destination drive as a TiVo drive (I basically tried various combinations to get Mfsadd and/or MfsSuperSize to take effect).
> 
> I then gave up, and redid the Mfscopy step. Again, after completing step 8, step 9 (without selecting any drive other than the previous selections of source and destination) Mfsadd returned an error. This time selecting the destination drive (i.e. doing step 10) and then doing step 9 got Mfsadd to do something, however WinMFS crashed after it was done and subsequent attempts to select the destination drive cause WinMFS to crash.
> 
> Right now I'm redoing the Mfscopy step again. I'm wondering if there's something I'm missing. Am I correct in understanding (as per the directions) that people expect the Mfsadd step to work immediately after closing the Mfscopy dialog without the need to select the destination drive (i.e. step 9 immediately after step 8 with no need to do step 10 first)?
> 
> I'm not sure where I'm messing up, I'm usually good with these sorts of things . Any advice or alternate directions would be appreciated. (Please forgive me if my description is muddled - doing this process for a third time has left me frazzled).
> 
> Regards,
> G


Hmmm...that's an odd one. Others here may have some input, but if not it's probably best to post over on the MFSLive Forum and see if Spike can answer your question.

Best of luck!


----------



## Geowolf

Geowolf said:


> I'm not sure where I'm messing up, I'm usually good with these sorts of things . Any advice or alternate directions would be appreciated. (Please forgive me if my description is muddled - doing this process for a third time has left me frazzled).


I forgot to mention that for the third attempt I decided to do it with a different laptop (both laptops are Dell). The third time appears to have been the charm. The process took slightly longer. I'm not sure if that means it copied more stuff or if that was just because the other laptop while newer is slightly slower. When the Mfscopy completed it automatically prompted me if I wanted to expand the destination drive because it had available space. I chose yes, and it executed an Mfsadd which worked!  Attempting step 9 anyway (out of curiosity) yielded the same error message I had been previously seeing (something about error 22 - no available space - unfortunately I was lazy and didn't bother writing down the exact wording). Checking with Mfsinfo, however, verified that there was no need to do a manual Mfsadd, because it reported the disk was already the correct size.

I then went ahead with the select drive and MfsSuperSize steps. I installed the new drive into my TiVo and all appears to be well. I tested watching small bits of various transfered recordings from the original drive and didn't encounter any problems. I still need to test recording and live with the new drive for a while to be sure that all is well, but it certainly seems promising.

I'm not positive what the difference was between the two laptops. It might be a driver difference (although I'm pretty good about keeping my drivers up to date and on the latest patches to Windows). It might be related to software differences. In particular the problematic laptop has COMODO Firewall Pro installed, although I had both the Firewall and Defense + portions of COMODO turned off. The problematic laptop also has a slightly older version of McAfee, although again I disabled this on both laptops to minimize the chance of interference with WinMFS and make sure that it operated as fast as possible.

In reading previous threads I had occasionally seen advice about trying another computer, so I guess let my experience add to that. If there's an unexplained failure try a different computer just in case .

Regards,
G


----------



## Teeps

Installed the 1Tb Fantom Drives "GreenDrive" today. Touch wood it all went well. Though, TiVo fussed about it being an unsupported unit, the installation completed and there is 165 hours of HD storage now. I can't believe how quiet the drive is.
As has been noted before, the drive did not come with an eSata cable.

This is the cable I bought: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330271805637 the connection is secure at both ends; but does not have a positive lock.


----------



## Geowolf

richsadams said:


> The winMFS GUI will appear to hang during long copy periods, but it's not, so unless you're positive that there is zero activity for an extended period of time, it's best to let it keep working. Copying everything over can take several hours. The MFSLive.org forum has a number of postings that can give you more details as well.


Agreed. Copying for me took a little over 4 hours (per attempt). That was for a Series 3 original drive (250 GB) that was roughly 80% full.

Also interestingly the UI updated less well on the laptop that actually successfully copied my data. I have no idea why.

Regards,
G


----------



## richsadams

Geowolf said:


> I forgot to mention that for the third attempt I decided to do it with a different laptop (both laptops are Dell). The third time appears to have been the charm. <snip>
> 
> In reading previous threads I had occasionally seen advice about trying another computer, so I guess let my experience add to that. If there's an unexplained failure try a different computer just in case .
> 
> Regards,
> G





Geowolf said:


> Agreed. Copying for me took a little over 4 hours (per attempt). That was for a Series 3 original drive (250 GB) that was roughly 80% full.
> 
> Also interestingly the UI updated less well on the laptop that actually successfully copied my data. I have no idea why.
> 
> Regards,
> G


Phew! Excellent news. :up:


----------



## richsadams

Teeps said:


> Installed the 1Tb Fantom Drives "GreenDrive" today. Touch wood it all went well. Though, TiVo fussed about it being an unsupported unit, the installation completed and there is 165 hours of HD storage now. I can't believe how quiet the drive is.
> As has been noted before, the drive did not come with an eSata cable.
> 
> This is the cable I bought: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330271805637 the connection is secure at both ends; but does not have a positive lock.


Another success story for the Fantom. I see buy.com has upped the price by $10 to $139 (AR) now, but still a very good deal. Thanks for reporting in! :up:


----------



## cwbaker

Anyone added a "HITACHI Deskstar 7K1000 0A35155 1TB SATA 7200 RPM 32MB" as an external drive to a S3?

How about as an internal replacement for either the S3 or HD?

ZZF has them for $89 after rebate:

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10005968&prodlist=celebros


----------



## oViTynoT

Microcenter has the 1TB WD GreenPower drives on sale for $129. Picked that and an MX-1 up yesterday; all is well in my world now!

(Series 3 + 1TB, New FiOS Lineup!)


----------



## richsadams

cwbaker said:


> Anyone added a "HITACHI Deskstar 7K1000 0A35155 1TB SATA 7200 RPM 32MB" as an external drive to a S3?
> 
> How about as an internal replacement for either the S3 or HD?
> 
> ZZF has them for $89 after rebate:
> 
> http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10005968&prodlist=celebros


That is a good price! :up: AFAIK there have not been any issues using the Hitachi drives either internally or externally w/Series3's. The Deskstar's are notoriously noisy though. However if you use the Hitachi Feature Tool to adjust the AAM down to 128 it might be acceptable (depending on the situation, living room as opposed to bedroom, etc.).

Hmmm...I might grab one to pop into my empty MX-1 and upgrade our S3 (again). 

Let us know how it goes!


----------



## richsadams

oViTynoT said:


> Microcenter has the 1TB WD GreenPower drives on sale for $129. Picked that and an MX-1 up yesterday; all is well in my world now!
> 
> (Series 3 + 1TB, New FiOS Lineup!)


Sah-weet! :up:


----------



## smokeyjones666

Just got my WD10EACS-65D6B0, Antec MX-1 and SIIG 1m SATA cable from Newegg yesterday, assembled it all and ran the Western Digital diagnostic utility last night (just to be sure, I've had my fair share of hard drives that were DOA.) Hooked it all up this morning and configured it - so far my TiVo hasn't complained.

I sure do like that Antec enclosure - nice and quiet.


----------



## ilh

oViTynoT said:


> Microcenter has the 1TB WD GreenPower drives on sale for $129. Picked that and an MX-1 up yesterday; all is well in my world now!


Wow. I was in Microcenter last week and they were priced at $239. I was shocked they were trying to sell it that high.


----------



## jlb

FYI, I noticed that the DVR Expander is listed at $129 today on Amazon (sold and shipped by TigerDirect).


----------



## brettatk

richsadams said:


> That is a good price! :up: AFAIK there have not been any issues using the Hitachi drives either internally or externally w/Series3's.


What about using externally with a Tivo HD? Same thing or not recommended?


----------



## richsadams

brettatk said:


> What about using externally with a Tivo HD? Same thing or not recommended?


The Hitachi's shouldn't be a problem with TiVo HD's either as an internal upgrade (recommended) or as an eSATA drive. IIRC there are several folks here using them successfully.

Of course with respect to an expansion drive for a TiVo HD, it won't be Plug and Pray as with Series3's...would require using winMFS (as outlined in the first post on this thread) to marry the internal drive to it.

The general consensus is that if you want to upgrade a TiVo HD, it's just as easy to upgrade the internal hard drive (you have to pull it anyway) in lieu of adding an eSATA drive. Of course you could do both if you needed a lot of space...but the OEM TiVo HD drive is so small it really isn't worth keeping for anything more than putting it on the shelf as a backup.


----------



## brettatk

richsadams said:


> The Hitachi's shouldn't be a problem with TiVo HD's either as an internal upgrade (recommended) or as an eSATA drive. IIRC there are several folks here using them successfully.
> 
> Of course with respect to an expansion drive for a TiVo HD, it won't be Plug and Pray as with Series3's...would require using winMFS (as outlined in the first post on this thread) to marry the internal drive to it.
> 
> The general consensus is that if you want to upgrade a TiVo HD, it's just as easy to upgrade the internal hard drive (you have to pull it anyway) in lieu of adding an eSATA drive. Of course you could do both if you needed a lot of space...but the OEM TiVo HD drive is so small it really isn't worth keeping for anything more than putting it on the shelf as a backup.


Thanks for the info. I've previously upgraded internally to a WD 1TB drive when I bought my Tivo HD last year. With all the new shows starting back and with our watching time being pretty limited right now I'd feel better with some extra space. Especially since they are all in HD and suck up some space. I might wait till Black Friday to see what kind of deals are being offered and pounce on one if I like it.


----------



## richsadams

brettatk said:


> Thanks for the info. I've previously upgraded internally to a WD 1TB drive when I bought my Tivo HD last year. <snip>


Good idea. :up: It looks like 1TB drives will soon eclipse 750GB drives for value per GB. I'm sure there will be some serious sales the way the economy is going. 2TB's will be sweet!


----------



## rjspring

Installed into my Tivo HD a week and a half ago, no issues.

Moved 100GB of shows from my old Tivo Series 2 DT to it (took five days) and still going strong.

Just had cablecards installed from cable company installed yesterday (cable tech had never done a Tivo before, luckily I read through these forums and all other instructions I could get my hands on) and I'm on cloud nine.

Long live Tivo!

I have a second Tivo HD I'll probably be upgrading in the next month or so with the same drive - now $129.99 at Newegg.


----------



## richsadams

rjspring said:


> Installed into my Tivo HD a week and a half ago, no issues.
> 
> Moved 100GB of shows from my old Tivo Series 2 DT to it (took five days) and still going strong.


Sweet! AFAIK you're the first one to report moving programs from a Series2 to a TiVo HD. Well done! :up: I'm guessing you accomplished that using TiVo Desktop? But if you did it using WinMFS that would make you a new "TiVo Pioneer" of sorts. 

Enjoy!


----------



## rjspring

richsadams said:


> Sweet! AFAIK you're the first one to report moving programs from a Series2 to a TiVo HD. Well done! :up: I'm guessing you accomplished that using TiVo Desktop? But if you did it using WinMFS that would make you a new "TiVo Pioneer" of sorts.
> 
> Enjoy!


Nope, just Tivo to Tivo transfers (I activated both, switched out the series 2 after the shows were transferred.).


----------



## richsadams

rjspring said:


> Nope, just Tivo to Tivo transfers (I activated both, switched out the series 2 after the shows were transferred.).


Ah, MRV...got it. Still nice. :up:


----------



## neochick

I have already added a My DVR Expander to my Tivo HD (been attached a long while, full). I want to upgrade the internal TivoHD drive to 1tb (and keep the original as a backup) and transfer all of the recordings to the 1tb, and at the same time also transfer the shows on the DVR expander I have now to a New My DVR Expander ... is this possible with WinMFS ?

Thanks for the help!


----------



## ThAbtO

The tivo records shows spreading amongst both the internal and the external drives. You disconnect the external and the shows become broken up and you lose all those added since the ext drive was installed.
One option is to transfer all your shows to a PC before you install a new drive and then transfer back afterwards.


----------



## neochick

When I attach my TivoHD internal (sda) and My Expander (sdb) I get the error that I cannot transfer both to one drive (new 1tb)... But can I transfer (all shows) if I attach 2 drives?

I thought If I hook up another My DVR Expander it might work .... (WinMFS)
Tivo Original sda -> New 1TB sda 
My Expander old sdb -> My Expander NEW sdb 

..there would be 2 drives attached. I was hoping I would not get the error about transferring to one drive (?) 

I already have the New 1TB drive but I am deciding if I should put out the funds for the extra MyDVR Expander? Seems like a waste if I cannot directly transfer all programs to both new drives.

Do you mean transfer the shows with Tivo Desktop? The only problem is Digital content is blocked, so that's about 80% of both drives is non-transferable. Is there a way to save all programs with WinMFS onto my PC?

Thanks for you help and suggestions!


----------



## brettatk

I have a quick question. I waded through several pages of this thread and couldn't find the answer. If I add an esata drive to my Tivo HD (already upgraded to 1TB) nothing will happen to my existing recordings, right? Just wanted to make sure before I do anything.

Also what kind of pricing are people finding for the Antec MX-1 these days? I found the following:

http://www.compuplus.com/i-Antec-MX-1-USB-e-SATA-Actively-Cooled-35-Inch-SATA-Hard-Drive-Enclosure-1012832~.html?sid=zhdaace52464r13

Is this a decent price or can I expect to find this price at other places as well?


----------



## richsadams

brettatk said:


> I have a quick question. I waded through several pages of this thread and couldn't find the answer. If I add an esata drive to my Tivo HD (already upgraded to 1TB) nothing will happen to my existing recordings, right? Just wanted to make sure before I do anything.
> 
> Also what kind of pricing are people finding for the Antec MX-1 these days? I found the following:
> 
> http://www.compuplus.com/i-Antec-MX-1-USB-e-SATA-Actively-Cooled-35-Inch-SATA-Hard-Drive-Enclosure-1012832~.html?sid=zhdaace52464r13
> 
> Is this a decent price or can I expect to find this price at other places as well?


AFAIK, using winMFS to marry an eSATA drive to your upgraded Tivo HD shouldn't affect the existing recordings at all.

$35.50 is a very good price for the MX-1 (although I don't know the seller's track record). I've seen it as low as $24.95 with a rebate once in a while, but that's a very good price outirght.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## richsadams

neochick said:


> When I attach my TivoHD internal (sda) and My Expander (sdb) I get the error that I cannot transfer both to one drive (new 1tb)... But can I transfer (all shows) if I attach 2 drives? <snip>


Hmmm...that's a good question and I thought you'd have an answer by now. In my mind you can't do what you're hoping to do as TiVo stripes recordings across both drives and since you're changing the size of at least one drive that will be problematic. However if you're up for it and used the dd rescue program it might be possible, but again, the difference in the upgraded drive size may be an issue. Since I've never tried it personally and I'm not sure anyone here has attempted exactly what you'd like to do either I can't say for sure one way or the other...brighter minds will hopefully prevail.

I hadn't thought about it, but I guess I could be in the same situation one day if I wanted to upgrade my upgraded TiVo.  This is a good example of planning ahead when you upgrade I guess...do what you expect you might want to do from the beginning unless you're willing to lose your recordings later.

You might want to ask Spike (the creator of winMFS, etc.) over at the MFSLive Forums.

You're correct, you won't be able to transfer your copy-protected recordings to your PC. 

Best of luck and let us know what you find out!


----------



## txporter

neochick said:


> When I attach my TivoHD internal (sda) and My Expander (sdb) I get the error that I cannot transfer both to one drive (new 1tb)... But can I transfer (all shows) if I attach 2 drives?
> 
> I thought If I hook up another My DVR Expander it might work .... (WinMFS)
> Tivo Original sda -> New 1TB sda
> My Expander old sdb -> My Expander NEW sdb
> 
> ..there would be 2 drives attached. I was hoping I would not get the error about transferring to one drive (?)
> 
> I already have the New 1TB drive but I am deciding if I should put out the funds for the extra MyDVR Expander? Seems like a waste if I cannot directly transfer all programs to both new drives.
> 
> Do you mean transfer the shows with Tivo Desktop? The only problem is Digital content is blocked, so that's about 80% of both drives is non-transferable. Is there a way to save all programs with WinMFS onto my PC?
> 
> Thanks for you help and suggestions!


Your best bet will probably to post on MFSLive forum. I don't think what you are trying to do is supported by WinMFS, but spike might have some ideas.



brettatk said:


> I have a quick question. I waded through several pages of this thread and couldn't find the answer. If I add an esata drive to my Tivo HD (already upgraded to 1TB) nothing will happen to my existing recordings, right? Just wanted to make sure before I do anything.


Nothing happens to your already recorded programs if you marry an external to an existing drive (I did exactly this when I originally added an external). However, anything recorded after that point will be split between both drives. If you have to divorce the external drive, any recording after the point of marriage will be lost.

**Guess I can't start a post and leave for 45mins before completing . Rich beat me to it**


----------



## neochick

richsadams said:


> Hmmm...that's a good question and I thought you'd have an answer by now. In my mind you can't do what you're hoping to do as TiVo stripes recordings across both drives and since you're changing the size of at least one drive that will be problematic. However if you're up for it and used the dd rescue program it might be possible, but again, the difference in the upgraded drive size may be an issue. Since I've never tried it personally and I'm not sure anyone here has attempted exactly what you'd like to do either I can't say for sure one way or the other...brighter minds will hopefully prevail.
> 
> I hadn't thought about it, but I guess I could be in the same situation one day if I wanted to upgrade my upgraded TiVo.  This is a good example of planning ahead when you upgrade I guess...do what you expect you might want to do from the beginning unless you're willing to lose your recordings later.
> 
> You might want to ask Spike (the creator of winMFS, etc.) over at the MFSLive Forums.
> 
> You're correct, you won't be able to transfer your copy-protected recordings to your PC.
> 
> Best of luck and let us know what you find out!


Thanks so much for the reply!!

I do not have much experience with Dos kind of programs (dos commands) and so I do not think I will be brave enough to try Also, I didn't even think of the difference of drive sizes ...that does sound like it would be an issue.. I really appreciate you mentioning it! :up:

I did come up with another idea which might work. I have another TivoHd that I got on sale ($99) when I purchased an LCD recently, I was thinking about selling it.. but maybe I can upgrade it first (thanks for your very good advice :up with the 1TB, and transfer all shows (MRV, old TivoHD and DVR Expander) to the upgraded TivoHD. This way I have a 1TB TivoHD and can keep all the shows from both the old TivoHD and My DVR Expander!  Well, it might be a lot of work, but the TivoHD and Expander is full to the max and I would hate to lose it all.

I will inquire with my original question to Spike at the WinMFS Forum. I am very curious if it would work, maybe a braver soul has tried it already.. 

Oh Yeah, Copy Protection.... arghh

I will post again soon with the info. Thanks again!!


----------



## neochick

txporter said:


> Your best bet will probably to post on MFSLive forum. I don't think what you are trying to do is supported by WinMFS, but spike might have some ideas.


I will post to mfslive! :up:
Thank you!!


----------



## brettatk

txporter said:


> Nothing happens to your already recorded programs if you marry an external to an existing drive (I did exactly this when I originally added an external). However, anything recorded after that point will be split between both drives. If you have to divorce the external drive, any recording after the point of marriage will be lost.


Thanks for adding this. I had thought this as well but was not sure. This is probably the only thing that is worrying me about adding the esata drive. Everything has been running smoothly since I upgraded the internal drive last year. I'd hate for something to go wrong after the install and have to remove the drive after a few weeks knowing I'll lose many shows. Did you have any problems after adding the external?


----------



## twm01

I replaced the drive in my HDTivo with a WD10EACS green drive. I now have 144 HD hours and 1367 SD hours according to the system information screen; however this thread shows:

High Definition Standard Definition

eSATA Series3 TiVoHD Series3 TiVoHD
None 32 20 303 180
120GB 47 ? 445 ?
250GB 65 ? ? ?
300GB 71 ? 673 ?
500GB 98 86 927 810
750GB 131 ? 1244 ?
800Gb 138 ? ? ?
1 TB 165 153 1561 ?

Should I have 153 hours of HD as this table shows? Should I be concerned that I did not do the upgrade properly? WinMFS prompted me to use the extra space (supersize), which I did...

Thanks in advance!


----------



## moxie1617

The table values are for the addition of an external drive, not replacement of an internal drive. The values represent the capacity of the original internal drive plus the 1 TB external drive.

144hrs/1367hrs is what has been reported before for an internal upgrade.


----------



## richsadams

neochick said:


> I have another TivoHd that I got on sale ($99) when I purchased an LCD recently, I was thinking about selling it.. but maybe I can upgrade it first (thanks for your very good advice :up with the 1TB, and transfer all shows (MRV, old TivoHD and DVR Expander) to the upgraded TivoHD.


Well...why didn't you say so?!  That sounds like the perfect solution! :up:


----------



## richsadams

twm01 said:


> I replaced the drive in my HDTivo with a WD10EACS green drive. I now have 144 HD hours and 1367 SD hours according to the system information screen; however this thread shows:


Moxie is exactly right. 144HD/1367 is exactly what we have as well. Congrats and enjoy! :up:


----------



## txporter

brettatk said:


> Thanks for adding this. I had thought this as well but was not sure. This is probably the only thing that is worrying me about adding the esata drive. Everything has been running smoothly since I upgraded the internal drive last year. I'd hate for something to go wrong after the install and have to remove the drive after a few weeks knowing I'll lose many shows. Did you have any problems after adding the external?


Well, yeah unfortunately...I added a 2 yr old APRICORN enclosure with a 500G Maxtor drive to one of my TivoHDs (had used to previously with a TWC DVR). It was fine for about a month and a half and then it crapped out on me. My Tivo frozen during a MRV and then rebooted. It then would not recover from the reboot very successfully (I got it to recover a couple of times, but it would reboot if I tried to transfer a show or watch a recorded show.) This behavior was fixed when I divorced the drive and went back to internal only. Luckily, I only lost about 12 shows, so it wasn't a huge deal (I had been keeping up on TV).

Jason


----------



## txporter

neochick said:


> Oh Yeah, Copy Protection.... arghh
> 
> I will post again soon with the info. Thanks again!!


You best bet may be to upgrade your other TivoHD with the 1TB internal and move all of your season passes to that machine. Basically only use your original TivoHD to watch the shows that are copy protected. Once you get through those shows, you can divorce the external and add it to the machine you upgraded with the 1TB drive. The non-copy protected material can, of course, be MRV'd as soon as your other machine is up and running.

Jason


----------



## twm01

richsadams said:


> Moxie is exactly right. 144HD/1367 is exactly what we have as well. Congrats and enjoy! :up:


Thanks for the affirmation guys - I will put it to good use, I can assure you!


----------



## sariemerci

I've read that disconnecting the expansion drive while TiVo is on can cause lots of problems, so I'd like to report on what happened to me when I accidentally did this while moving stuff around: Nothing! 

As soon as it happened, TiVo immediately restarted, then told me the drive had been disconnected and it could not run without the drive so please fix it. So I turned off tivo, re-secured the connection, restarted the hard drive, and powered tivo back up. That's it. No lost programs, re-formatting of my extrenal drive, nothing.

My external drive is one the 1TB Fantom GreenDrive with the WD hardware. I've had it for a few weeks now with no issues, with Suggestions actively recording the whole time. Of course I'm moving into winter at home now, so it will be a while before I see how well it holds up in higher temperatures....

Just thought y'all might find that interesting.


----------



## richsadams

sariemerci said:


> I've read that disconnecting the expansion drive while TiVo is on can cause lots of problems <snip>


Thanks for the feedback. The reports regarding "problems" when disconnecting an expansion drive (when TiVo is on or off) center around removing it without properly divorcing it or just removing it permanently (wherein all recordings made since the drive was attached will be lost).

Accidentally disconnecting an eSATA drive won't cause any problems as long as it's properly reattached and TiVo is rebooted as you've outlined.

Glad to hear that your new Fantom drive is doing well! :up:


----------



## thomaslue

jlib said:


> Calvary is a Value Added Reseller (VAR). Western Digital is their Original Equipment Manufactuer (OEM). You can count all the actual drive manufacturers on one hand.


I bought a WD10EACS through the Buy.com deal back in August (see quote below).
I installed it in my Antec MX1 and it has been purring along nicely, recording lots of HD programs with my S3.

But yesterday, it started making a constant grinding sound that is twice as loud as it's usual hum. It seems to still be working and all the movies show up in the Now Playing list, but the sound is worrisome.

YIKES! Please advise! What do I do?

Thanks,
thomaslue



GregComeLately said:


> Buy.com has This $129.99 deal for a 1TB WD GP drive. At least, that's the drive they've been using so far. You can knock the price down further with a 5% coupon to bring the price down to $124 -ish shipped.
> 
> There is some talk that they've been using a new 3 platter version of the 1TB drive - model #WD10EACS-006DB0.
> 
> The previous was the old 4 platter design we know and love (or not. i.e., us S3 owners) - model #WD10EACS-00ZJB0.
> 
> So a bunch of you get this to find out and if it's the new drive version, then install them in your S3's and let us know what happens. I don't ask for much.


----------



## thomaslue

One more bit of info:
I notice that if I carefully shift the Antec MX1 in it's cradle, I can sometimes change/reduce the sound it makes.

Is it possible that the problem is with the Antec MX1?

Thanks,
Thomas


----------



## jlib

Since it has a fan you will need to figure out how to isolate the drive sound to determine the source. I don't have an Antec MX-1 so I can't give you any specific advice but I would shut down the TiVo and MX-1, open the case of the MX-1 and then turn on just the MX-1 and see if there is an easy way to disconnect the fan. If it is soldered in you should be OK to jam a pencil into the blades to temporarily stop it. That should allow you to determine noise source.


----------



## richsadams

thomaslue said:


> I bought a WD10EACS through the Buy.com deal back in August (see quote below).
> I installed it in my Antec MX1 and it has been purring along nicely, recording lots of HD programs with my S3.
> 
> But yesterday, it started making a constant grinding sound that is twice as loud as it's usual hum. It seems to still be working and all the movies show up in the Now Playing list, but the sound is worrisome.
> 
> YIKES! Please advise! What do I do?
> 
> Thanks,
> thomaslue


The fan in my MX-1 was noisy when I first plugged it in (without a drive installed). I pushed and poked and then finally gave the case a bit of a whack on my desk and it quieted down to a light hum and it's been fine since then (although I'm not using it at the moment).

As jlib suggests, unplug TiVo and your MX-1 and disconnect it. Open the MX-1, plug it back in and turn it on. You'll quickly know if it's the fan (under the drive) or the drive itself. If it's the fan you can remove the drive and try to calm it down by physically adjusting it a bit or perhaps using a tiny amount of lubricant. But if that doesn't work Antec is very good about replacing them.

If it's the drive you can get an RMA from WD.

Unfortunately if it's the drive you'll need to properly divorce it (just plug TiVo back in and follow the screen instructions) which will lose all of your recordings since it was attached. Since the drive still works you can reconnect it and transfer them to another TiVo via MRV or to your PC (if the recordings aren't copy protected) with TiVo Desktop. Hopefully it's just the fan that needs a little attention.


----------



## thomaslue

Thanks guys.

I will do what you suggest and report back.


----------



## hunts

Any thoughts on this drive?

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/...s=19&sku=A1307909&dgc=CJ&cid=24471&lid=912336

I picked one up and hope to use it on my 2nd S3 Tivo which has the lock-up problems when coax is plugged in.


----------



## richsadams

hunts said:


> Any thoughts on this drive?
> 
> http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/...s=19&sku=A1307909&dgc=CJ&cid=24471&lid=912336


Well...loud and expensive come to mind.

The model you're looking at (or have): Idle 2.8 bels, seek 3.7 bels. By comparison this Seagate drive is quieter (2.5 and 2.9 bels) and costs less at Amazon.com or Newegg.com. (It's also part of Seagate's new eco-friendly line similar to WD's GP drives.) 3.7 bels will be very noisy and you cannot adjust the acoustics on Seagate drives.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a Seagate man from way back, but there's no need to spend extra for features TiVo can't use and end up with the sound of a thrashing machine coming out of your nice TiVo.  Can you return it?


----------



## Skyhawk85u

Just to add to the thead, I upgraded my THD this morning to a WD10EVCS 1 TB drive. Took less than an hour, I think, with WinMFS which makes it almost completely brainless. Way easier than the extra drive I installed in my Series 1 8 years ago!  144 HD and 1367 SD now. Ahhhh....


----------



## Joe3

I'm still not clear on this. Can I upgrade the internal hard drive without it affecting the external drive thus keeping all my recordings using the MFSLive Linux Boot CD?


----------



## ccrider2

richsadams said:


> Well...loud and expensive come to mind.
> 
> The model you're looking at (or have): Idle 2.8 bels, seek 3.7 bels. By comparison this Seagate drive is quieter (2.5 and 2.9 bels) and costs less at Amazon.com or Newegg.com. (It's also part of Seagate's new eco-friendly line similar to WD's GP drives.) 3.7 bels will be very noisy and you cannot adjust the acoustics on Seagate drives.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm a Seagate man from way back, but there's no need to spend extra for features TiVo can't use and end up with the sound of a thrashing machine coming out of your nice TiVo.  Can you return it?


I'm also looking for a drive for my S3. Both of these drives are the same aren't they? Or am I missing something?

They're both seem to have the same Seagate number ST31000340AS.

http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-ST31000340AS-Barracuda-Cache-8-5MS/dp/B000UC3CN0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1224829671&sr=8-2

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/System_Drives/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&cs=19&sku=A1307909&dgc=CJ&cid=24471&lid=912336

What do you think?

I just ordered the one from Dell, hope I didn't make a mistake. Got a good deal with a coupon code ?2WJ$?FX3J9?WM [Exp 10/29] + $0 shipping = $103

Chris


----------



## richsadams

ccrider2 said:


> I'm also looking for a drive for my S3. Both of these drives are the same aren't they? Or am I missing something?
> 
> They're both seem to have the same Seagate number ST31000340AS.


Ah, my mistake. I hadn't looked at the model number on the Dell site. When I looked up the specs on Seagate's site for the "NCQ" model I came up with specs for the 750GB drive which had the loud acoustic numbers. So you are correct, they are showing the same model number. I have to get to bed earlier. 

The drive is still a bit noisy by comparison to WD's GP WD10EVCS drive though. (I can barely hear ours when I have my ear right on the TiVo case.) Seagate specs show the idle acoustics for the ST31000340AS to be 2.9 bels idle and 3.2 bels seek. That's certainly better than 3.7 bels! But it's a tad more than WD's 2.4 and 2.5 bels. If it's not going to be in a bedroom I'm sure it'll be fine. Seagate's are great drives so it should still be a good investment...and that's a great price! :up:


----------



## jlib

Seagate has very limited choices in the 1TB class. The Barracuda 7200.11 series of desktop drives which that drive is a member have much better acoustics than the notorius 7200.10 series but since the acoustics on Seagates cannot be adjusted they remain non-competitive as far as seek acoustics go (more important than pure seek performance in the TiVo). Some users here have reported that the default acoustic setting is acceptable so we probably can't make a blanket rejection as with the previous generation Seagate. You will have to determine for yourself if it is at an acceptable level. I wonder why they never made a 1TB DB35 with the intentionally detuned seek?

Also NCQ just means Native Command Queuing, a SCSI-like feature which all SATA drives have.


----------



## ccrider2

richsadams said:


> Ah, my mistake. I hadn't looked at the model number on the Dell site. When I looked up the specs on Seagate's site for the "NCQ" model I came up with specs for the 750GB drive which had the loud acoustic numbers. So you are correct, they are showing the same model number. I have to get to bed earlier.


Rich
Thanks for clearing that up. 
I was worried I bought another "SPARE" drive.

While I've got you. What's your opinion on "Supersize"? I realize that it gives you more space, but can there be a down side as far as compatibility goes? I've read that TiVo uses that space for something, can't remember what. Seems like everyone uses Supersize, so why is it an option?

Thanks Again,
Chris


----------



## richsadams

ccrider2 said:


> What's your opinion on "Supersize"? I realize that it gives you more space, but can there be a down side as far as compatibility goes? I've read that TiVo uses that space for something, can't remember what. Seems like everyone uses Supersize, so why is it an option? Thanks Again,
> Chris


Hey Chris. Supersize away! MFS Supersize frees up extra space reserved for storing tivoclips; the advertising videos that are downloaded. AFAIK there's no downside to Supersizing. (The clips still download). You'd have to ask Spike over at MFSlive.org as to why it's an option...likely something to do with partitions, script conflicts or some such stuff.

Enjoy all of that new real estate! :up:


----------



## hunts

richsadams said:


> Well...loud and expensive come to mind.
> 
> The model you're looking at (or have): Idle 2.8 bels, seek 3.7 bels. By comparison this Seagate drive is quieter (2.5 and 2.9 bels) and costs less at Amazon.com or Newegg.com. (It's also part of Seagate's new eco-friendly line similar to WD's GP drives.) 3.7 bels will be very noisy and you cannot adjust the acoustics on Seagate drives.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm a Seagate man from way back, but there's no need to spend extra for features TiVo can't use and end up with the sound of a thrashing machine coming out of your nice TiVo.  Can you return it?


Well I didn't exactly pay the full $140 for it. more like $110 shipped including tax after the coupon.  If it really is too loud for the tivo, in an external SATA case for back-up it goes!


----------



## richsadams

hunts said:


> Well I didn't exactly pay the full $140 for it. more like $110 shipped including tax after the coupon.  If it really is too loud for the tivo, in an external SATA case for back-up it goes!


Per my correction post above it shouldn't be too bad. Not "whisper quiet" but more than acceptable I would think. I need a new external for one of my computers so I think I might jump on one myself at $104...it eclipses the 750GB drives for $$ per gig now. Sweet!

It should work fine. Let us know how it goes! :up:


----------



## Fofer

While we're on the subject of good HD deals... here's one I just got for a PowerMac tower... $95 after Mail In Rebate

HITACHI Deskstar 7K1000 0A35155 1TB SATA 7200 RPM 32MB

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10005968&prodlist=celebros

Would that be good for a TiVo?


----------



## BruceShultes

Fofer said:


> While we're on the subject of good HD deals... here's one I just got for a PowerMac tower... $95 after Mail In Rebate
> 
> HITACHI Deskstar 7K1000 0A35155 1TB SATA 7200 RPM 32MB
> 
> http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10005968&prodlist=celebros
> 
> Would that be good for a TiVo?


I have been using one in an external Antec MX-1 case on my S3 for over a year.

Of course, since I got the drive when it was first released, it cost me close to $600.


----------



## thomaslue

richsadams said:


> Unfortunately if it's the drive you'll need to properly divorce it (just plug TiVo back in and follow the screen instructions) which will lose all of your recordings since it was attached. Since the drive still works you can reconnect it and transfer them to another TiVo via MRV or to your PC (if the recordings aren't copy protected) with TiVo Desktop. Hopefully it's just the fan that needs a little attention.


It seems to be the fan in the Antec MX-1.
I am doing an "advanced RMA" with Antec: I order a new enclosure (submitting the RMA number) and I keep the bad enclosure until the new enclosure arrives. Then I do the switch and return the bad enclosure and get reimbursed for the new enclosure and the shipping.

I'll let you know how it goes.


----------



## richsadams

thomaslue said:


> It seems to be the fan in the Antec MX-1.
> I am doing an "advanced RMA" with Antec: I order a new enclosure (submitting the RMA number) and I keep the bad enclosure until the new enclosure arrives. Then I do the switch and return the bad enclosure and get reimbursed for the new enclosure and the shipping.
> 
> I'll let you know how it goes.


That's good news if you're able to just swap the drive out so you can keep your recordings. :up:


----------



## richsadams

Fofer said:


> While we're on the subject of good HD deals... here's one I just got for a PowerMac tower... $95 after Mail In Rebate
> 
> HITACHI Deskstar 7K1000 0A35155 1TB SATA 7200 RPM 32MB
> 
> http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10005968&prodlist=celebros
> 
> Would that be good for a TiVo?


I don't have any personal experience to share but Hitachi drives generally receive positive reviews from the forum members using them. Here are the specs...so it appears that it would be a pretty good option. The only thing of concern that I noticed is this item under the "Overview" tab:



> *Reduced power idle modes*
> Unique to Hitachi drives, the Deskstar 7K1000 features three advanced low-power idle modes  active, unload and low-power. Together, they reduce power consumption at the drive level up to 20%, optimize non-operational latency and lower drive temperature for cooler system operation.


That's a firmware bit and I'm guessing it wouldn't come into play with TiVo as it never goes into "idle" mode. AFAIK no one here has ever said anything about it however if it turns out to be a problem let us know.

The seek acoustics are not "whisper quiet" but if that's not a concern, it would seem to be acceptable at 3 bels and you may be able to adjust them down. Let us know if you can. :up:

Happy upgrading!


----------



## NatasNJ

Ignore post. Found info finally on 1st page.


----------



## richsadams

A member that had and cured problems with a WD My DVR Expander posted some good information on another thread that might be helpful in isolating problems, specifically hard drive issues (internal and/or external) so I thought I'd post/link it here.



JacksTiVo said:


> BTW, during my conversation with TiVo tech support, I confirmed with him that when checking the channel strength, the TiVo bypasses the buffer and hard drive. (That is why you get a warning message that any recordings will be interrupted when doing the test.) Since during the channel checks there was no stuttering, it gave me a clue that it was possibly the external hard drive.


----------



## GregComeLately

Ok, I attempted to do the internal drive upgrade on my S3 and I ran into a problem. I'm wondering if there is something obvious that I am missing. 

STEPS TAKEN: I pulled the original drive from my Tivo S3, lined it up side by side with the new replacement 1TB drive, positioned both next to my (turned off) 3 year old eMachines XP Home computer. 

I opened my computer case, which has two SATA connectors on the motherboard, neither being used. I connected each drive to a respective SATA connector with a SATA cable, used to attach a SATA HD internally within a computer (as opposed to an eSATA cable - I assume that I can use SATA cables for these attachments, or should I have been using eSATA cables?). 

I fired up the computer and ran the mfscopy upgrade software, but couldn't choose/click on the second drive in the software. Then I noticed that my original Tivo drive wasn't spinning/powered on, which I assume is why I couldn't choose it in the drive mfscopy upgrade software. So I proceeded to go through several cycles of turning the computer off, switching SATA cables around, trying four different ones in total, always making sure they were tightly attached, then turning the computer back on. Still nothing. The original Tivo drive would not power up. 

I also tried switching the drives around to use the alternate SATA connection just in case one of these motherboard SATA connectors turned out to be faulty. But with all these various attempts, the new 1TB drive would always power up, but the original Tivo drive never would. 

At that point, I thought, "Oh, Great! I must have fried the original hard drive in the process of removing it from the Tivo case!!". What else could it possibly be? 

Fearing the worst, I returned the original drive to the Tivo case, re-attached the cables and fired my S3 Tivo back up, hoping that it would work and all my existing recordings would still be there. I waited with dread throughout the Tivo reboot process. And.. everything was fine. The drive was still working, all the recordings were still there and everything was working properly. 

I don't get it. WHAT WENT WRONG!?!?! I thought this process was supposed to be relatively easy!


----------



## greg_burns

GregComeLately said:


> I don't get it. WHAT WENT WRONG!?!?! I thought this process was supposed to be relatively easy!


Are you plugging in the power cable to the harddrive as well as the sata cable? The cable in the S3 has both the sata and power in one harness. (Some special WD connect thingie.) That is not the norm.

The original 250GB harddrive has both the newer SATA power plug and the older style Molex plug for power (only use one, not both!). Does your PC have the appropriate power plug? Some PC don't have the newer power harness, just the older Molex type. There are adapters you can buy.

Molex









Newer SATA power









Also, sometimes you have to enabled the SATA ports in the BIOS. Although, if they have power they should feel warm to the touch and spinning inside even w/o the SATA port enabled.

I also wonder if your eMachine's power supply is not beefy enough to run two more attached drives. How many watts is it? Seems unlikely, but who knows?


----------



## richsadams

GregComeLately said:


> Ok, I attempted to do the internal drive upgrade on my S3 and I ran into a problem. I'm wondering if there is something obvious that I am missing. <snip>


Greg went exactly where I was going to go. It sounds like you just don't have power running to your TiVo drive. I'm guessing you're using a SATA cable without a power supply to connect the TiVo drive to your computer...which is fine. But you'll need to get power to the TiVo drive using the molex plug (pictured in Greg's post).

You have a couple of choices for power. Most PC power supplies come with an "extra" molex power plug. If so you can use that for your TiVo hard drive. Or if you have a CD ROM or DVD drive you should be able to unplug the molex power connector from either and plug it into your TiVo drive. Or you can use a simple molex "Y" adapter. Unplug the power connector from your PC's hard drive and use that as the input for the "Y" connector.

Hope that helps! (Hope it's that simple...probably is  )


----------



## vstone

On one PC that I have (a gateway) one of the molex connections is really not fully powered because of a intermediate patch cord/harness designed to power a fan.


----------



## Joe3

Thinking and hesitant about internal upgrade to 1TB.

Did anyone have any problems with upgrading/changing the Series 3 built-in and linking it back to the existing external drive? 

Did you suffer the loss of your recordings?

Did you give up the Plug and Play feature?

Did the upgrading prevent the normal linking to the external drive after freezes and subsequent reboots?

Thanks.


----------



## ccrider2

richsadams said:


> Hey Chris. Supersize away! MFS Supersize frees up extra space reserved for storing tivoclips; the advertising videos that are downloaded. AFAIK there's no downside to Supersizing. (The clips still download). You'd have to ask Spike over at MFSlive.org as to why it's an option...likely something to do with partitions, script conflicts or some such stuff.
> 
> Enjoy all of that new real estate! :up:


Seagate ST31000340AS Installed, Supersized, 131 HD hours, so far so good. I can't even hear the thing run. 
Of coarse I spent 31 years of my life in a noisy GM plant. 

The whole process was rather straight-forward, once I got the PNY SATA card in the 1Ghz P3 to see the TiVo drive. I first had both drives installed in "Metal Gear" external boxes on the PNY e-sata ports, winmfs saw the new drive but not the TiVo drive. Tried swapping the drives, thinking that a box or port was bad...the problem moved with the swap. 
My solution:
The PNY card has two internal SATA ports. I reconfigured the PNY card to use one of those for the TiVo drive, and it worked. Like the MFS sw doesn't like to see an internal TiVo drive on an e-sata port, if that makes any sense.

Anyway, all seems well, and I'm HAPPY! 

Chris


----------



## GregComeLately

Thanks for your typically excellent feedback, Greg & Rich. 



greg_burns said:


> Are you plugging in the power cable to the harddrive as well as the sata cable? The cable in the S3 has both the sata and power in one harness. (Some special WD connect thingie.) That is not the norm.
> 
> .... Some PC don't have the newer power harness, just the older Molex type. There are adapters you can buy.


I forgot to mention in my original post that I HAD plugged both drives in to my computer power supply (a replacement Antec Seasonic-made power supply I installed about 6 months ago, not the original generic, questionable quality one it came with), along with plugging in a separate sata cable for each.



greg_burns said:


> .... Some PC don't have the newer power harness, just the older Molex type. There are adapters you can buy.


I attached both drives via the extra molex connectors available with the power supply. Are you saying that the molex type of connectors won't work?

I tried a few of them (molex connectors on the Antec PS), including the one which was working for the new replacement drive, just in case the one I attached to the original Tivo drive was defective. None of these attempts got the original Tivo drive to power up either, but the intended replacement drive powered up with any molex connector I tried. perplexing.



greg_burns said:


> ...... Also, sometimes you have to enabled the SATA ports in the BIOS. Although, if they have power they should feel warm to the touch and spinning inside even w/o the SATA port enabled.


That's why I didn't even get as far as looking into the BIOS question. The original Tivo drive wouldn't ever power up for me, no matter which molex connector, sata cable (4 tried) or sata motherboard connection (2 total, both tried) combination I attempted. But with the intended replacement drive, all of these same connections that had previously failed with the original drive ALWAYS managed to work for me, i.e., both power up and show up in the mfstools software. 



richsadams said:


> I'm guessing you're using a SATA cable without a power supply to connect the TiVo drive to your computer...which is fine. But you'll need to get power to the TiVo drive using the molex plug (pictured in Greg's post).


Yep, I tried a couple different versions of that and another type of sata cable; a non-locking blue one and a pink locking style version, both from monoprice.

Unless someone chimes in with some other ideas, I guess I'm going to have to give it another try, hoping that I _*somehow*_ managed to overlook something. I just don't see how though.

My backup plan: I now have access to a second computer, a Lenovo laptop. Unfortunately, I am going to have to pick up a dual sata laptop express card to plug into it, just to be prepared should the desktop computer method not work again. It could be a waste of time/money, but I will need to be prepared with this alternative method of doing the upgrade, _which I assume would work_, should my second attempt with my desktop computer fail again.


----------



## GregComeLately

Joe3 said:


> Thinking and hesitant about internal upgrade to 1TB.
> 
> Did anyone have any problems with upgrading/changing the Series 3 built-in and linking it back to the existing external drive?
> 
> Did you suffer the loss of your recordings?
> 
> Did you give up the Plug and Play feature?
> 
> Did the upgrading prevent the normal linking to the external drive after freezes and subsequent reboots?
> 
> Thanks.


Well for the seeming vast majority, using the recommended method/software described throughout this thread, everything goes without a hitch with respect to all of your concerns.

The one thing I noticed as being a problem with the instructions (page one of this thread, about half way down the page for instructions pertaining to replacement of original drive) is the lack of explanation/pictures of how to remove the original Tivo drive. I had to google the info because once I cracked open the case, it wasn't immediately obvious to me which set of screws I had to remove to get the hard drive out. Then the combo power/data harness connected to the drive threw me off too. It was connected so very tightly that I began to think that I was doing something wrong and would damage something if I kept pulling on it.

I eventually found a picture by picture description of the removal process which gave me more confidence about how to proceed. Sorry, don't remember the link.


----------



## richsadams

Joe3 said:


> Thinking and hesitant about internal upgrade to 1TB.
> 
> Did anyone have any problems with upgrading/changing the Series 3 built-in and linking it back to the existing external drive?
> 
> Did you suffer the loss of your recordings?
> 
> Did you give up the Plug and Play feature?
> 
> Did the upgrading prevent the normal linking to the external drive after freezes and subsequent reboots?
> 
> Thanks.


There's no need to be nervous IMHO...upgrading is quite simple and almost always works without fail.

- Not sure what you mean in your first question. I had no problems with my Series3 1TB upgrade if that helps.  And as Mr. ComeLately said earlier, there are many, many folks here that have performed this upgrade for over a year now without any problems.

- No loss of recordings if you follow the proper winMFS directions. That said, based on your second question, it sounds like you have an eSATA drive. If that's the case you should plan on losing all of your recordings made since the eSATA drive was connected unless you want to go through a fairly complicated linux boot disk copy process to save everything. If you have another TiVo you can use MRV to transfer recordings you want to save. Or you can use TiVo DeskTop to move them to your PC (if they aren't copy protected).

- I did give up the plug and pray eSATA feature. I used to have an eSATA drive connected, but I opted to just upgrade the internal drive because 1TB gave me more than enough recording space (I save things I want to keep on my computer and/or edit and burn them to a DVD). But I can always go back and marry an eSATA drive to my 1TB drive with a couple of clicks of the same program I used to upgrade the internal drive. If you have an operating eSATA drive now, you can marry it to your internal drive at the same time as you do your internal upgrade and use both right away.

- It sounds like you're having freeze/reboot problems and you're attributing them to the internal drive. To be sure that's the case and since you're thinking about upgrading the internal drive, I would disconnect the eSATA drive and properly divorce it (unplug TiVo and the eSATA drive > disconnect the eSATA drive from TiVo > plug TiVo back in and follow the on-screen instructions). If TiVo runs fine I'd troubleshoot the eSATA drive before making the upgrade. If it still has freeze/reboot problems without the eSATA drive a number of people have reported that replacing their hard drive fixed them but there's no guarantee of course as something else may be causing the issues. NOTE: If you divorce your eSATA drive you will lose all recordings made since it was connected.

In any case, if you're comfortable connecting a hard drive to your computer and using a simple copying program, you shouldn't be nervous about upgrading. :up:


----------



## Joe3

Thanks guys! :up:

The orig. HD and 750 Seagate Pro external gives me 1TB and I would hate to give up all those recording and start over. Off loading High Deff to the laptop and external storage is like watching grass grow as far as transfer speed. I will have to wait for HD problems or a tool that could do the total job.


----------



## richsadams

Joe3 said:


> Thanks guys! :up:
> 
> The orig. HD and 750 Seagate Pro external gives me 1TB and I would hate to give up all those recording and start over. Off loading High Deff to the lab top and external storage is like watching grass grow as far as transfer speed. I will have to wait for HD problems or a tool that could do the total job.


Sounds good. If you're not having any issues and the space you have meets your needs, then I agree that there's really no need to make any changes. :up:


----------



## Imhof

HI

I just tried to add a WD 500GB esata drive to my TIVO S3. I connected both drives to my compter via Esata to USB devices and ran the WINMFS V9.2 application. I was able to select both drives and then run the MFSADD tool. Program stated it was successful. When I put Tivo back together and power it up it just sits in the start up screen and then every now and then reboots. If I boot up the Tivo without the second drive attached, Tivo brings up a screen telling me it can't find the second drive and without this it cannot operate. I have tried the process several times with no luck. 


Has anyone ran into this? Know a fix?


----------



## richsadams

Imhof said:


> HI
> 
> I just tried to add a WD 500GB esata drive to my TIVO S3. I connected both drives to my compter via Esata to USB devices and ran the WINMFS V9.2 application. I was able to select both drives and then run the MFSADD tool. Program stated it was successful. When I put Tivo back together and power it up it just sits in the start up screen and then every now and then reboots. If I boot up the Tivo without the second drive attached, Tivo brings up a screen telling me it can't find the second drive and without this it cannot operate. I have tried the process several times with no luck.
> 
> Has anyone ran into this? Know a fix?


Welcome to the forum but sorry it's under not so great circumstances. A couple of quick questions about what you're trying to do...

Before trying to add the new eSATA drive had you upgraded the internal drive previously?

When you say it sits at the "start up screen" do you mean the "powering up" screen or the "just a few minutes more" screen?

I'm not doubting you, but AFAIK there isn't a screen that says TiVo "can't find the second drive and without this it cannot operate." Do you mean the "hard drive missing" screen comes up when you start TiVo without the external drive? If so, did you follow the instructions? (Press thumbs down three times and then press "Enter") That should cause TiVo to reboot and go through a process that may take a little time and either boot up or reboot once more and then start normally.

Which WD drive (model number) are you trying to use?

What enclosure and cable are you trying to use?

Answers to these questions and any other information you can give will be helpful. Bottom line is we/you should be able to get it to work. Worst case is that you may have to reimage the internal drive with Instant Cake but whatever happens it should come back to life with a little help.


----------



## Imhof

richsadams said:


> Welcome to the forum but sorry it's under not so great circumstances. A couple of quick questions about what you're trying to do...
> 
> Before trying to add the new eSATA drive had you upgraded the internal drive previously?
> 
> When you say it sits at the "start up screen" do you mean the "powering up" screen or the "just a few minutes more" screen?
> 
> I'm not doubting you, but AFAIK there isn't a screen that says TiVo "can't find the second drive and without this it cannot operate." Do you mean the "hard drive missing" screen comes up when you start TiVo without the external drive? If so, did you follow the instructions? (Press thumbs down three times and then press "Enter") That should cause TiVo to reboot and go through a process that may take a little time and either boot up or reboot once more and then start normally.
> 
> Which WD drive (model number) are you trying to use?
> 
> What enclosure and cable are you trying to use?
> 
> Answers to these questions and any other information you can give will be helpful. Bottom line is we/you should be able to get it to work. Worst case is that you may have to reimage the internal drive with Instant Cake but whatever happens it should come back to life with a little help.


Thanks the response.

The drive inside my TIVO box is original and I had not made any modifications to it until I tried to add the second drive.

The second Drive is a WD500H1CS-00 It is an external drive and I am using the enclosure it came with.

I'm not exactly sure which cable I am using, a friend of mine ordered it for me, but I believe it was listed on this forum as one of the cables that works with TIVO.

After doing the add with the second drive plugged in, the TIVO sits in the " powering up" screen and then every couple mins resets itself.

If I unplug the drive, the tivo will go into the "hard drive missing" screen. I am able to follow the instructions and get the TIVO back online without the second drive (sorry for the confusion on this one).

I was also able to reconnect both drives to my computer and use the divorce function to restore the internal drive.

I would love to get this working, so any suggestions you have would be great.

Thanks


----------



## richsadams

Imhof said:


> Thanks the response.
> 
> The drive inside my TIVO box is original and I had not made any modifications to it until I tried to add the second drive.
> 
> The second Drive is a WD500H1CS-00 It is an external drive and I am using the enclosure it came with.
> 
> I'm not exactly sure which cable I am using, a friend of mine ordered it for me, but I believe it was listed on this forum as one of the cables that works with TIVO.
> 
> After doing the add with the second drive plugged in, the TIVO sits in the " powering up" screen and then every couple mins resets itself.
> 
> If I unplug the drive, the tivo will go into the "hard drive missing" screen. I am able to follow the instructions and get the TIVO back online without the second drive (sorry for the confusion on this one).
> 
> I was also able to reconnect both drives to my computer and use the divorce function to restore the internal drive.
> 
> I would love to get this working, so any suggestions you have would be great.
> 
> Thanks


Ah...I think I see the problem...perhaps two of them.

First based on the model number, the Western Digital eSATA drive you're trying to use, the WD My Book Home Edition, will not work. It is one of the few eSATA drives that is not compatible with TiVo Series3's (and IIRC TiVo HD's). There's something about the three-way bridge that is problematic for TiVo's.

Then, just to confirm (and I should have asked earlier) you said you have a TiVo "S3". Here that means a Series3. This is a TiVo HD. The reason we need to clarify is that you can add a (compatible) eSATA drive to the TiVo Series3 via plug and play. There's no need to pull the internal drive or run any programs at all. You just have to connect it correctly:

*Unplug your TiVo Series3.
Connect the eSATA drive to TiVo.
Plug in the eSATA drive and turn it on...wait about 10 seconds for it to fully spin up.
Plug TiVo back in and follow the on-screen instructions.*​
The only time you'd need to run winMFS is if you wanted to add an eSATA drive to a Series3 which had a previously upgraded internal hard drive.

On the other hand TiVo HD's can only accept the TiVo approved Western Digital My DVR Expander _unless_ you run winMFS to marry an "unapproved" drive to it.

Soooo, if you do have a Series3 and you tried to marry an external drive using winMFS...AFAIK, that's a first! If you properly divorced the drive (and it sounds like you did) and TiVo is running fine things should be okay.

You'll need to return the eSATA drive you have, get one that is compatible, correctly connect it and you should be in business. If you want a 500GB eSATA drive my advice would be to simply buy the approved WD My DVR Expander. That will work with your TiVo Series3 or a TiVo HD.

If you want to do a little more work you could buy one of the recommended hard drives and enclosures and be in business as well. The 500GB WD GP (or larger) series of hard drives are recommended (for external use) as is the Antec MX-1 enclosure ($29.99 at amazon.com right now which is a very good price).

Hope that helps but before you go any further I'd strongly recommend doing a little homework. Read through the very first post of Official eSATA Drive Expansion: FAQ + Discussion on this sticky thread. Recommended hard drives, usage, etc...basically everything you need to know is there. If you still have questions after that feel free to ask!


----------



## Teeps

Teeps said:


> Installed the 1Tb Fantom Drives "GreenDrive" today. Touch wood it all went well. Though, TiVo fussed about it being an unsupported unit, the installation completed and there is 165 hours of HD storage now. I can't believe how quiet the drive is.
> As has been noted before, the drive did not come with an eSata cable.
> 
> This is the cable I bought: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330271805637 the connection is secure at both ends; but does not have a positive lock.


One month later; the 1TB Fantom Drive is still :up: working, though it's a little louder now than when it was empty. Still, I have to open the cabinet doors to hear it.


----------



## richsadams

Teeps said:


> One month later; the 1TB Fantom Drive is still :up: working, though it's a little louder now than when it was empty. Still, I have to open the cabinet doors to hear it.


Nice! And thanks for keeping us posted. :up:


----------



## docnaks

Question...my S3 warranty is up soon (1 year); I've opened, built and upgraded more than a few computers in my day, and I think I have the skills to do an internal upgrade. Would most of you out there do an internal upgrade or add an eSATA HDD? I'd like to up the capacity now that I have HDTV, I'm just a little shaky on my skills and ability to use winMFS. I've read the posts, and I think I could do it, but I'm a little confused on the super size step. The step-by-step guide says to do it one way, but the posts mention a missed step?


----------



## greg_burns

docnaks said:


> Question...my S3 warranty is up soon (1 year); I've opened, built and upgraded more than a few computers in my day, and I think I have the skills to do an internal upgrade. Would most of you out there do an internal upgrade or add an eSATA HDD? I'd like to up the capacity now that I have HDTV, I'm just a little shaky on my skills and ability to use winMFS. I've read the posts, and I think I could do it, but I'm a little confused on the super size step. The step-by-step guide says to do it one way, but the posts mention a missed step?


Definately would recommend upgrading the internal drive and forgoe the external. I haven't even bothered remarrying my external since upgrading to 1TB internal.

To tell you the truth I never even bothered with the SuperSize step. I guess I forgot. It doesn't add much more space anyways when dealing with a 1TB drive. (But that one post is just saying make sure you have the right drive selected before telling it to supersize. Really easy.)


----------



## jlib

Yes, always go with the internal upgrade first as long as opening the TiVo does not give you a quesy feeling in your stomach. You already have the necessary level of knowledge to proceed.


----------



## DallasFlier

website glitch - double post - deleted!


----------



## DallasFlier

docnaks said:


> Question...my S3 warranty is up soon (1 year); I've opened, built and upgraded more than a few computers in my day, and I think I have the skills to do an internal upgrade. Would most of you out there do an internal upgrade or add an eSATA HDD? I'd like to up the capacity now that I have HDTV, I'm just a little shaky on my skills and ability to use winMFS. I've read the posts, and I think I could do it, but I'm a little confused on the super size step. The step-by-step guide says to do it one way, but the posts mention a missed step?


I was the one who posted about the missed step - and I think the step by step guide in the first post of this thread now has been corrected to add that step in. As has been said, its pretty easy - just select the correct drive before doing the supersize command.

I'd definitely recommend that you do the internal upgrade first. The most likely failure point of the entire TiVo is the hard drive. Put two drives into your configuration, and you've simply doubled the chances of failure - and since failure of EITHER drive means you end up losing all your shows, the internal drive upgrade and a single drive configuration is definitely the most reliable.

As for saying the supersize step should isn't a big deal because it doesn't add that much capacity - well, it moves the available HD capacity from 131 hours to 144, a 13 hour difference. The baseline TiVo HD's *total* capacity is 20 hours of HD. So, I'd say 13 hours of additional FREE capacity in exchange for performing a 10 second command during the upgrade is a pretty damn good tradeoff, but that's just me.


----------



## greg_burns

DallasFlier said:


> As for saying the supersize step should isn't a big deal because it doesn't add that much capacity - well, it moves the available HD capacity from 131 hours to 144, a 13 hour difference. The baseline TiVo HD's *total* capacity is 20 hours of HD. So, I'd say 13 hours of additional FREE capacity in exchange for performing a 10 second command during the upgrade is a pretty damn good tradeoff, but that's just me.


Very good point. Guess I was thinking it was much less than that. 

I must have done that command cause mine is at 144 HD hours currently.


----------



## docnaks

Thanks for the advice! As soon as my S3 hits its one year anniversary, I'll try the internal upgrade.


----------



## Beantownbeanie

HI, I tried google. NO luck...

I had a Seagate 750 on my Tivo HD with the eSata....used winmfs...but gave in after many glitches and freezes...took it off and got the Tivo approved expander... 
Now I have this Seagate 750...I had a port on my PC so I just plugged it in...but Vista does not see it... How can I get Vista to see it so I can reformat it and use it as a spare drive on my computer? I bought 2 at the time and one works great...its in the other eSata port...
Thanks in advance... I didnt know where else to go.


----------



## txporter

Pretty sure if you type compmgnt.msc at the Run... prompt it will bring up the computer management utility that will allow windows to see the drive. Once it does, you can select it and format it. Windows doesn't recognize it right now because it is the wrong format. 

Jason


----------



## Beantownbeanie

That did it. THanks.

New problem...Connected MY tivo verified DVR Expander....keeps rebooting...says it sees the storage would you like to use it? I say yes..it reboots....I go to the info screen..hours are still the same low number...and it says External Storage is connected and gives the model number of the expander...and then the message comes up saying it sees a dvr expander ....do you want to use it....and of course...no luck...
I removed all wires...powered down...followed the directions exactly...no luck..any advice for this new problem?
Thanks again in advance.

Ken


----------



## retired_guy

Would like to report that the Samsung 1TB EcoGreen drive is working fine for me in my HD. Very quiet and a good deal at $99. Only problem I had was an initial gray screen at power on but I rebooted and everything has worked well since.


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## richsadams

retired_guy said:


> Would like to report that the Samsung 1TB EcoGreen drive is working fine for me in my HD. Very quiet and a good deal at $99. Only problem I had was an initial gray screen at power on but I rebooted and everything has worked well since.


Nice to hear. Thanks for reporting back. :up: (Even though it may not sit well for some of us that paid $269 or more for our 1TB drives about a year ago   )


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## txporter

Beantownbeanie said:


> That did it. THanks.
> 
> New problem...Connected MY tivo verified DVR Expander....keeps rebooting...says it sees the storage would you like to use it? I say yes..it reboots....I go to the info screen..hours are still the same low number...and it says External Storage is connected and gives the model number of the expander...and then the message comes up saying it sees a dvr expander ....do you want to use it....and of course...no luck...
> I removed all wires...powered down...followed the directions exactly...no luck..any advice for this new problem?
> Thanks again in advance.
> 
> Ken


Glad it worked for you.

I know that you said that you had a 750G in the TivoHD originally. I am assuming that you put the original 160G back in, or did you put another larger drive in? If you put a different drive in, you will need to marry the external drive with the internal drive using winMFS instead of just hooking it to the tivo.

I have heard others report issues with what esata cable was used to connect the external drive to the Tivo. The one that seems to be most well loved is a SIIG cable (see recommendations at the beginning of this thread).

Jason


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## Beantownbeanie

txporter said:


> Glad it worked for you.
> 
> I know that you said that you had a 750G in the TivoHD originally. I am assuming that you put the original 160G back in, or did you put another larger drive in? If you put a different drive in, you will need to marry the external drive with the internal drive using winMFS instead of just hooking it to the tivo.
> 
> I have heard others report issues with what esata cable was used to connect the external drive to the Tivo. The one that seems to be most well loved is a SIIG cable (see recommendations at the beginning of this thread).
> 
> Jason


Ah..Ok..I have a drive in mine that is larger than the original...So even though I have the approved drive..>I must once again marry it to the Tivo HD drive using win mfs...like I did the first one that caused all the reboots...

Originally I had...Upgraded drive inside with a mfs married seagate 750 on the outside....took that off...but left the upgraded drive inside....then tried to add the my dvr expander because its "approved" with hopes of no reboots...

So once again I have to crack the case open and connect it all to my PC..its been so long..will have to read up on it again. LOL Thanks for your time and information.....
Ken


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## GregComeLately

Ok, I'm making my second attempt at upgrading my internal S3 hard drive right now. Using a laptop this time (eMachines desktop tried & failed with last time), with a dual "eSATA CardBus" installed/slid into one of the available (express?) side slots of the laptop. I've got the two hard drives (a new Samsung EcoGreen 1TB and the original 250GB) plugged in to this eSATA CardBus via a pair of eSATA cables.

I was going to try and run diagnostics on the new drive before I got started with the MFScopy procedure, but I got sidetracked and forgot about it.. hopefully I can do that after the mfscopy procedure, if that's still a good idea.

On to the upgrade - I'm probably an idiot since nobody else seemed confused by them, but the instructions specific to doing the *internal drive upgrade with saving existing recordings* on page one of this thread left me confused in a few spots. So I bailed, googling to find these mfscopy upgrade instructions from Engadgethd instead, which have been easier for me to follow.

So I'm about half way through the upgrade. 13 hours of existing programming being transferred over to the new drive as I type. By my estimation, it will take an hour and 45 minutes to complete the transfer. In other words, still plenty of time for things to go terribly wrong!


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## Xirtam717

Hi everybody. I am new to this forum I found it a couple of weeks ago after I looked at the back of my TiVo and saw that external storage port. Well I just hooked up a 1TB Fantom GForce drive. The TiVo recognized it right away. I ordered if from newegg for $130, model GF1000EU. So far so good. I'll report back if I have any problems.


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## retired_guy

Just had to do a hard reboot of my Samsung EcoGreen HD system and sorry to say I got a bad case of the gray screen hang as well as one power on hang. After about five or six hard reboots, I got past the problem and the system is running fine again. Soft reboots don't seem to cause any problems. But with the problem I'm now seeing along with similar problems from several other users, this drive appears to be too much of a crapshoot and I don't think anyone should use it as an internal HD drive unless someone figures out how to get around the hard power on problem. Sorry to have to report this.

Note: It's now 2/22/09 and I've been running with a UPS system for the past four months or so. I've had no problems with the drive at all and have done three hard reboots without a problem. My UPS indicates that my wall voltage is 123V and the UPS clips that back to 120V as well as reshaping the power signal. That apparently was enough to let my HD work with the Samsung drive without problems, since before I was failing maybe 40&#37; of the time when rebooting.


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## DallasFlier

richsadams said:


> Nice to hear. Thanks for reporting back. :up: (Even though it may not sit well for some of us that paid $269 or more for our 1TB drives about a year ago   )


I'm sure you already know this Rich, but in computers there's one thing pretty well guaranteed. Whatever you buy today will be available in a few months for less, and/or something bigger and faster will be available for no more. 

I've come to the conclusion there really isn't a right or wrong time to buy. Just know in advance that if you wait 6 or 12 months, you'll _always_ be able to buy the same thing cheaper - but you've been able to enjoy it for the last year, take satisfaction in that. 

The first hard drive I ever bought was to upgrade a dual-floppy CP/M system - too many years ago. It was a 5 MB drive (no, that's not a typo!) If I remember right, I found a killer deal and only paid $300 or so for it. That was great considering I had gotten a killer deal about a year before that on a pair of double density, double sided Shugart 8" floppy drives - 512K of storage on a single floppy, for only $250/drive!


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## ccrider2

Ah...The good ol days ... $4600 for 386 25Mhz system w/dot matrix printer.


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## richsadams

Well...we lived in a shoebox and could only _dream_ about a dot matrix printer.


----------



## vstone

ccrider2 said:


> Ah...The good ol days ... $4600 for 386 25Mhz system w/dot matrix printer.


Don't leave out the 40 MB drive!


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## jlib

DallasFlier said:


> ...a pair of double density, double sided Shugart 8" floppy drives - 512K of storage on a single floppy, for only $250/drive!


DallasFlier wins the _I remember when_ contest.


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## jlib

retired_guy said:


> Just had to do a hard reboot of my Samsung EcoGreen HD system and sorry to say I got a bad case of the gray screen hang as well as one power on hang. After about five or six hard reboots, I got past the problem and the system is running fine again. Soft reboots don't seem to cause any problems. But with the problem I'm now seeing along with similar problems from several other users, this drive appears to be too much of a crapshoot and I don't think anyone should use it as an internal HD drive unless someone figures out how to get around the hard power on problem. Sorry to have to report this.


Thanks for that datapoint. That is how we determine what works best. You mention that others have reported the same problem. Were those problems reported here or at some other site?


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## jlib

Xirtam717 said:


> Hi everybody. I am new to this forum I found it a couple of weeks ago after I looked at the back of my TiVo and saw that external storage port. Well I just hooked up a 1TB Fantom GForce drive. The TiVo recognized it right away. I ordered if from newegg for $130, model GF1000EU. So far so good. I'll report back if I have any problems.


You are fortunate you have the original TiVo S3 which has eSATA plug'n'play capability with most external drives without having to buy the official but limited 500GB one as with the TiVo HD model. Yes, definitely keep us posted on reliability. And welcome to TCF!


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## retired_guy

jlib said:


> Thanks for that datapoint. That is how we determine what works best. You mention that others have reported the same problem. Were those problems reported here or at some other site?


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=408190


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## richsadams

retired_guy said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=408190


Thanks for the link...I missed that thread.

Reports of problems crop at this post and afterward. I only count two others that had the "grey screen" issue. If it had only happened once I'd call it a singular event (faulty drive, cable, etc.) but three separate incidents with the same symptoms is cause for alarm.

Your "too slow to come up to speed" boot theory is as good as any I can think of. It sounds like once they are running things are good. Since a soft reboot works the only time this may be a problem would be during a power failure. If TiVo is connected to a UPS things s/b okay (as long as the power outage isn't longer than the UPS can handle).

However I agree that until this is sorted out I think *bkdtv* might need to add the Samsung Spinpoint "Green" 1TB hard drive to those that are not recommended.


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## retired_guy

My personal experience is that I have to do a "hard boot" more often to recover from a variety of software and other unknown problems than occur for power failures. So I don't think that a UPS system would really fix the problem for most. There have not been any examples of the problem with S3 systems so that for the time being it appears it's only the HD where the Samsung EcoGreen 1TB drive is questionable.

If it's really true that a slow power up of the drive is the problem, TiVo could probably make a small timing change to their boot software to fix the problem. Wish they would; the Samsung drive is very quiet, low power consuming and cost effective and would could possibly be a better option for them in the XL system than the current drive they're using (I'm assuming they use a WD drive now).


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## richsadams

retired_guy said:


> If it's really true that a slow power up of the drive is the problem, TiVo could probably make a small timing change to their boot software to fix the problem. Wish they would; the Samsung drive is very quiet, low power consuming and cost effective and would could possibly be a better option for them in the XL system than the current drive they're using (I'm assuming they use a WD drive now).


Agreed that it might be a better OEM drive if TiVo were to make some software adjustments. However I wouldn't hold my breath. Besides software adjustments that might have backwards compatibility issues, TiVo has a long, long term relationship (as in since day one) with WD and I doubt if they're anxious to make a wholesale change to a new partner. The newer WD GP "green" drives seem to be doing well (ours has been flawless for about a year now) so I could see them switching to one of those.

So just THD's? I haven't kept up with all of the threads but IIRC there were one or two S3 users that didn't have problems. Whatever the cause/effect, keeping this particular Samsung drive out of the mix is probably best for now. I'd really like to know what the issue is though. Sounds like it's the hard drive's firmware, but then...

Thanks for being a TiVo Pioneer in any case. :up:


----------



## Dr_Diablo

nexus99 said:


> I have this exact same problem with a S3 and a WD My Book Home.


I currently have the WD Hone edition external drive, 500 GB an wishn to upgrade to at least the 1 TB unit, will this be possible my merely unplugging the old drive then marry the newer drive to the Tivo unit?


----------



## richsadams

Dr_Diablo said:


> I currently have the WD Hone edition external drive, 500 GB an wishn to upgrade to at least the 1 TB unit, will this be possible my merely unplugging the old drive then marry the newer drive to the Tivo unit?


Hmmm...the post you're quoting is over a year old and the WD My Book Home Edition didn't work with TiVo then or AFAIK won't work with them now (see Section III, #6 of the original post on this thread). Are you saying that you currently have one of those connected to your TiVo? Or do you have the "approved" WD My DVR Expander or something else?

If you complete a normal internal hard drive upgrade on a Series3 or a TiVo HD, you would need to marry the eSATA drive at the same time. Just follow the directions in the first post or at mfslive.org.

Or are you saying that you have a 500GB eSATA drive and want to upgrade to a 1TB eSATA drive? If that's the case and you have a Series3 you don't have to do anything special as long as you're using one of the recommended drives or drive/enclosure combos (see the first post on this thread). You'll need to divorce your existing drive (which means you will lose all of your recordings since you connected it)...

Unplug TiVo
Unplug and disconnect your eSATA drive
Plug TiVo back in and follow the on-screen divorce instructions

TiVo will take a little time to get things organized and then reboot. After it fully reboots into a normal state...

Unplug TiVo
Connect your new eSATA drive to TiVo and turn it on (give it 10 seconds or so to fully spin up)
Plug TiVo back in and follow the on-screen instructions

TiVo will re-organize things, reboot and you'll be back in business...with more real estate!

NOTE: This will only work with TiVo Series3's. TiVo HD's require anything but the WD My DVR Expander to be married to the internal hard drive (again, see the first post for more info.)


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## retired_guy

richsadams said:


> Thanks for being a TiVo Pioneer in any case. :up:


I've concluded that the "spin-up" time isn't the issue with Samsung 1TB HD103UI and posted some information as to why at http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6832225&posted=1#post6832225

Your comment about thanks for being a TiVo Pioneer reminds me of the old line about "What's the definition of Pioneers?. Answer: "People with arrows in their backs" >


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## hunts

*CLEARLY* storage space has gotten cheap! Check out this drive for $150 shipped W/ a 4 GB thumbdrive! lol

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/SkuSearch_v2.asp?SCriteria=AA74438&afsrc=1

Now the question is, has anyone replaced their internal HDD with something larger than 1 TB?


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## richsadams

retired_guy said:


> I've concluded that the "spin-up" time isn't the issue with Samsung 1TB HD103UI and posted some information as to why at http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6832225&posted=1#post6832225
> 
> Your comment about thanks for being a TiVo Pioneer reminds me of the old line about "What's the definition of Pioneers?. Answer: "People with arrows in their backs" >


Got it...thanks. Interesting issue.

BTW, I stopped counting arrows ages ago.


----------



## hunts

Did anyone see this deal by Mwave.com?
http://www.mwave.com/mwave/SkuSearch_v2.asp?SCriteria=AA74438&afsrc=1

a 1.5 TB HDD for $150 shipped!?! Does anyone know if that can go inside the series 3 Tivo by itself? I thought the limit of the S3 tivo was 1 TB in and 1 TB as an external drive.

oh FYI, it also comes with a 4 GB flash drive too free of charge!


----------



## GBL

richsadams said:


> ... *TiVo has a long, long term relationship (as in since day one) with WD *and I doubt if they're anxious to make a wholesale change to a new partner.


What makes you say that? My oldest TiVos, from early 2000, came with Quantum drives. IIRC, Quantum was later bought out by Maxtor, which was acquired by Seagate.


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## jlib

hunts said:


> ...a 1.5 TB HDD for $150 shipped!?! Does anyone know if that can go inside the series 3 Tivo by itself? I thought the limit of the S3 tivo was 1 TB in and 1 TB as an external drive...


Unfortunately, nobody has reported full success with that drive. Stick with 1TB internal and external on the TiVo. It is still a pretty good deal (for your PC).


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## bareyb

Count me in as a Hard Drive "upgrader". My Series 3 just took a major dump. GSOD and constant reboots. My options are to swap it for a refurb for $150.00 or buy a new drive. I just ordered a 1 TB kit from DVR Upgrade and it should be here tomorrow... I hope it works... I have two kids under the age of 8 and they aren't known for their "patience and understanding" with regard to technical issues that affect their TV viewing.  

How are you guys liking the Hitachi 1 TB drives?


----------



## Lenonn

jlib said:


> Unfortunately, nobody has reported full success with that drive. Stick with 1TB internal and external on the TiVo. It is still a pretty good deal (for your PC).


Slashdot article on the 1.5TB Seagate

I think dodging this one is a good choice for now.


----------



## bareyb

I have all but decided on getting a 1TB Cinemastar. Is this the best way to go? Any problems reported with these?


----------



## overthetop75

bareyb said:


> I have all but decided on getting a 1TB Cinemastar. Is this the best way to go? Any problems reported with these?


Why not save some money and get the deskstar and turn the aam down to 128 making it a cinemaster? Also you can do a but it now on ebay for 170 shipped on a 1tb wd green power already setup for the tivo which is much quieter then the hitachi. I had the hitachi in my bedroom and did not like the noise so I bought a wd green and it is much better. ( Some people might not hear the difference but I did) The hitachi is in my other hd tivo now in the living room where the sound is not a problem. I have not had the drives long enough to say which one will last longer but I think for me I would only but WD in the future. Also if you don't mind taking the extra step and setting up the drive yourself you could get the wd green for under $110. Good luck with whatever you end up doing.


----------



## bareyb

overthetop75 said:


> Why not save some money and get the deskstar and turn the aam down to 128 making it a cinemaster? Also you can do a but it now on ebay for 170 shipped on a 1tb wd green power already setup for the tivo which is much quieter then the hitachi. I had the hitachi in my bedroom and did not like the noise so I bought a wd green and it is much better. ( Some people might not hear the difference but I did) The hitachi is in my other hd tivo now in the living room where the sound is not a problem. I have not had the drives long enough to say which one will last longer but I think for me I would only but WD in the future. Also if you don't mind taking the extra step and setting up the drive yourself you could get the wd green for under $110. Good luck with whatever you end up doing.


The drive I bought from DVR Upgrade was a Deskstar and it's plenty quiet but he did adjust it down to optimize for DVR use. Is the AAM the only difference from the Cinemastar?

My only reservation is, I'm going to have to use a PC to do all this and I'm used to a Mac. I don't even know how to boot from a CD on a PC! So I'm a little leary of doing all the settings on a new drive myself. I asked the owner of DVR UPgrade if I could buy a Deskstar pre-configured with the AAM turned down and I'm still waiting to see if he's willing to do that and for how much.


----------



## overthetop75

bareyb said:


> The drive I bought from DVR Upgrade was a Deskstar and it's plenty quiet but he did adjust it down to optimize for DVR use. Is the AAM the only difference from the Cinemastar?
> 
> My only reservation is, I'm going to have to use a PC to do all this and I'm used to a Mac. I don't even know how to boot from a CD on a PC! So I'm a little leary of doing all the settings on a new drive myself. I asked the owner of DVR UPgrade if I could buy a Deskstar pre-configured with the AAM turned down and I'm still waiting to see if he's willing to do that and for how much.


Don't get me wrong the deskstar is a great drive and with it set to 128 it is not much louder then the WD. I still think for someone not wanting to make changes themselves then a wd setup for the tivo with instructions for $170 is a good deal. If you still want to use a deskstar and they won't do it for you I have no problems setting it up for you for free.


----------



## bareyb

overthetop75 said:


> Don't get me wrong the deskstar is a great drive and with it set to 128 it is not much louder then the WD. I still think for someone not wanting to make changes themselves then a wd setup for the tivo with instructions for $170 is a good deal. If you still want to use a deskstar and they won't do it for you I have no problems setting it up for you for free.


I'm wanting to transfer the settings (Season Passes etc.) to the new drive before I install it. So that means I'm going to have to use MFSTools or something like it. I have downloaded the CD image from Hitachi's website. I'm going to see if Toast for the Mac can do a Disc Image for a PC. If it will then I should be okay to do the adjustments myself.

My only question is, how do you boot from a CD on a PC running Vista? On a Mac you hold down the "C" key. I have no idea on a PC. How do you do it?


----------



## overthetop75

bareyb said:


> I'm wanting to transfer the settings (Season Passes etc.) to the new drive before I install it. So that means I'm going to have to use MFSTools or something like it. I have downloaded the CD image from Hitachi's website. I'm going to see if Toast for the Mac can do a Disc Image for a PC. If it will then I should be okay to do the adjustments myself.
> 
> My only question is, how do you boot from a CD on a PC running Vista? On a Mac you hold down the "C" key. I have no idea on a PC. How do you do it?


When it starts to boot you will see on the bottom right(most machines) press f9 or some other key that it says for the boot menu. Then just select boot from cd. Most machines are already set to boot from a bootable cd so you might not even need to do anything besides boot with the cd in the drive. This will put you right into the hitachi program to set the aam. You can do the rest from inside of windows to maintain all of your settings.


----------



## jlib

If it is a Dell do an F12 when the screen first comes on. Alternately, you can go into the BIOS setup program (usually F2 or Delete) and put the CD ahead of the hardrive in the boot sequence.


----------



## jlib

bareyb said:


> The drive I bought from DVR Upgrade was a Deskstar and it's plenty quiet but he did adjust it down to optimize for DVR use. Is the AAM the only difference from the Cinemastar?


As far as the TiVo is concerned, yes.


----------



## bareyb

jlib said:


> As far as the TiVo is concerned, yes.


Cool. I got my wife's Dell to boot from the CD. So I'm ready to roll. I really am liking the Deskstar drives they use at DVR Upgrade so far. It is smokin' fast and very quiet. In fact, the slight fan noise from my external MX-1 enclosure is all I can hear now. It's nice to have snappy menus again. I guess my old drive had been going for a while. It was very slow compared to the new one. I am currently moving all the shows I haven't seen to "TiVo 2" in preparation for the new drive which will arrive on Tuesday. :up:


----------



## richsadams

For anyone wanting to upgrade their TiVo HD or add an eSATA to their TiVo HD or Series3, Newegg has the bare WD 1TB WD10EACS SATA hard drive for $99.99 w/free shipping at the moment...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136151&Tpk=22-136-151

Note that this drive will NOT work as an internal upgrade for the TiVo Series3. For more info on this, other drives and upgrade options refer to the first post on this sticky.

*EDIT:* Just checked and the drive is back up to it's normal $115 which is still a pretty decent price.


----------



## SteveH66

I'm hoping someone here can help me out. I've got a TiVo S3 and I'm trying to expand its storage. I've read through the FAQ here and I'm a tech guy, so this is right up my alley. I'm using the Antec MX-1 enclosure, the SIIG CB-SA0111-S1 cable, and I've tried both the Seagate DB35 750GB drive (ST3750640SCE) and, most recently, the WD AV-GP 1TB drive (WD10EVCS). All of these parts are on the suggested parts list in this FAQ.

I put the drive into the enclosure, hook it up to the powered-off TiVo, power it up, and follow the on-screen directions. After the confirmation screens, the drive seems to be working fine and the extra storage shows up in the "System Info" screen.

However, after a short amount of time (between an hour and a day or so), the TiVo freezes and, in some cases, I get the GSOD. If I power off the TiVo, disconnect the drive, the TiVo works just fine.

I started to get this with the Seagate 750GB drive, so I figured it was the drive and I got the WD drive (both were brand new). So...I'm now convinced now that it's not a drive problem. I've tried two different SIIG cables...the only thing I haven't switched out is the enclosure. Could that be the problem? Should I try another of the Antex MX-1's or try another enclosure? Thanks for any help!

- Steve -


----------



## greg_burns

Sounds like you troubleshot this pretty well.

If you have eSata on your PC you could attach the MX-1 to it and try stress testing. Sounds like there is something wrong with the controller chip on the Antec. (Hooking up via USB obviously would not test the same components.) From reports here, it seems they are more than willing to do an RMA on it.

Another option, is to forget the external storage and just put that new 1TB drive internal using WinMFS.


----------



## richsadams

SteveH66 said:


> I'm hoping someone here can help me out. <snip>


Hi Steve, I'm in agreement with Greg...it's almost certainly a problem with your MX-1 enclosure. The one I have worked flawlessly until I disconnected it and installed a 1TB internal drive, but there are probably a half-dozen reports on the forum of those enclosures failing over the past year; not unusual considering how many are in the wild IMO.

Antec is very good about replacing defective enclosures. I'd get an RMA and get back on the road to more space. :up:


----------



## bareyb

Hi guys. My Hitachi drive arrived a day early. Looks like Buy.com packed it properly. Still, do you guys think it would be prudent to run some disc utilities on it to make sure it doesn't have any problems? If so, is there a free Hard Drive utility program I could download to my wife's PC for testing purposes? 

I may just do this today if I can get my wife off her PC for a little while...


----------



## greg_burns

Hitachi Drive Fitness test is one I like to use

http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm

WD makes one that will write zeros to the drive, but I don't know if it will work with non-WD drives


----------



## bareyb

greg_burns said:


> Hitachi Drive Fitness test is one I like to use
> 
> http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm
> 
> WD makes one that will write zeros to the drive, but I don't know if it will work with non-WD drives


It looks like it creates a bootable "diskette" and my wife's PC doesn't even have a floppy drive.  Is there something built into Vista I can use without having to boot up from it?


----------



## bareyb

bareyb said:


> It looks like it creates a bootable "diskette" and my wife's PC doesn't even have a floppy drive.  Is there something built into Vista I can use without having to boot up from it?


It looks like maybe you can make a bootable CD too, but I'm still OOL because my wife has Vista and it's not compatible. Any other recommendations for a Hard Disk Utility?


----------



## bareyb

There seems to be a utility built into Vista. You right click on a hard drive and use the Properties menu Tools. I'm a little leery of using it. Will it mount the drive or do something "wrong" that might interfere with the WINMFS tools?


----------



## txporter

Fairly certain that the Check Now button is only for mounted drives that are in a format that Windows recognizes (NTFS, FAT32, etc). That won't work for you. I don't know what to tell you to use to check your drive. I haven't run a check on the drives that I have added to my tivos. I have probably added 4-5 to various series2 and about 3 to series3. I haven't had a failure yet (although I had an enclosure bite it about 3 months back).

Jason


----------



## bareyb

txporter said:


> Fairly certain that the Check Now button is only for mounted drives that are in a format that Windows recognizes (NTFS, FAT32, etc). That won't work for you. I don't know what to tell you to use to check your drive. I haven't run a check on the drives that I have added to my tivos. I have probably added 4-5 to various series2 and about 3 to series3. I haven't had a failure yet (although I had an enclosure bite it about 3 months back).
> 
> Jason


You're probably right. At this point, short of buying a retail Disk Utility that my wife will never use, I think I'm just gonna go ahead and install the drive in my Series 3 and see how it goes. I'm sure if there's a problem I'll know soon enough. If it's got some bad sectors I think the Tivo software can fix that on it's own. Thanks for the input txporter. I think I'm just gonna go for it and take my chances. :up:


----------



## greg_burns

bareyb said:


> It looks like maybe you can make a bootable CD too, but I'm still OOL because my wife has Vista and it's not compatible. Any other recommendations for a Hard Disk Utility?


I don't understand. You download the .iso file then use software like www.imgburn.com to make a bootable CD out of it. Piece of cake.


----------



## ThAbtO

greg_burns said:


> I don't understand. You download the .iso file then use software like www.imgburn.com to make a bootable CD out of it. Piece of cake.


You mean "Instant cake"


----------



## bareyb

greg_burns said:


> I don't understand. You download the .iso file then use software like www.imgburn.com to make a bootable CD out of it. Piece of cake.


Okay. That'll work. I wasn't aware of that program. I was just going by the instructions on the Hitachi site. Thanks.


----------



## Xirtam717

It has been almost two weeks now and the external 1TB Fantom GForce drive that I hooked up to my Series 3 is working fine.:up: I really like that availability of 165 hours HD recording.


----------



## Majik45

Can anyone tell me if this Western Digital Drive works for an internal upgrade? It looks like it might be one that some people have talked about here, but I'm not sure:

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/...etail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=A1763104

I have a gift card to use from Dell from buying a computer last Christmas and figure I could upgrade my Tivo hard drive with the money I have.


----------



## greg_burns

Majik45 said:


> Can anyone tell me if this Western Digital Drive works for an internal upgrade? It looks like it might be one that some people have talked about here, but I'm not sure:
> 
> http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/...etail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=A1763104
> 
> I have a gift card to use from Dell from buying a computer last Christmas and figure I could upgrade my Tivo hard drive with the money I have.


That is the WD10EACS. It will work internally for a TivoHD. Not the original S3.


----------



## richsadams

greg_burns said:


> That is the WD10EACS. It will work internally for a TivoHD. Not the original S3.


This post caught my attention the other day. The OP is claiming to be successfully using one of the new 3 platter 1TB WD10EACS drives in a Series3. I've asked him if he's tried a soft reboot (the downfall of this drive previously) but no answer as of yet. It'll be interesting to find out if they've altered them to the point of being useful for S3's once again. The early models worked, then they didn't, now they do? Sheesh!  To be continued.

BTW, to be clear and until we have proof positive that the new WD10EACS works in every aspect in a Series3, they are still to be avoided...but as you point out they are fine for TiVo HD upgrades or as eSATA drives for either model.


----------



## bareyb

I have been meaning to check in with a report on the new drive install. I wanted to live with it for a few days and make sure there were no problems with it. To sum up, everything went perfectly. We all owe a debt of gratitude to the WINMFS creator. That is an elegant little bit or work there. Very intuitive. I ended up going for the Hitachi Cinemastar 1 TB unit. I already had a Deskstar I got in a DVRUpgrade.com kit and was very happy with it, plus the Hitachi's seemed to be working well for a lot of people. I got it at Buy.com and the packaging they sent it in was appropriate for a hard drive. They did a good job packing it.

Using WINMFS was pretty easy. I'd already studied the screenshots on Spikes' website and I had my laptop open to the first page of this thread and used those instructions. I used my (no longer needed) MX-1 enclosure to hook up the TiVo drive to my wife's PC via USB and it worked like a charm. The only oddity was that I tried to save the Backup file to the desktop, it didn't seem to want to let me so I just went with it's default location of the same folder as the application and it worked fine. I left the swap file at 128 mainly because it was the default. I went with the Truncated Backup and it only took a couple of minutes. I had already moved my shows to my other Tivo via MRV overnight. I fugured the less time the software spent working the less likely something would go wrong. In the end, the software worked flawlessly. 

The Cinemastar has a 32 meg cache and I suspect that's made a difference in performance over the 2 megs my original drive had. Maybe removing the external drives just cleaned things up a bit. For whatever reason, the new drive is much faster and more responsive than my S3 was before. It feels like a whole new machine. Another strange but welcome anomaly is that my 30 Second Skip finally works the way I remember it used to. So that was a pleasant bonus. 9.4 had made it much better, but now it updates the image with each click no matter how fast i click. Kind of makes me suspect my original drive was not working at it's optimum.

At any rate, my S3 seems supercharged now. The whole feel of the thing is better. The Menus have never been snappier, and the whole rig just seems a lot more solid. By losing the two external drives I cut the number of fans by two, and the new Hitachi drives are inaudible from more than couple of feet away. I can just barely hear the fans whirring in the rack now, and I can turn my TV down two notches lower than I could with the external drives attached!  

I'm grateful to everyone who contributed to the thread and especially to Tivo Inc. for allowing us to maintain our own machines. This was a really fun project and had q great bang for the buck ratio. I enjoy it every time I turn on the TV. Thanks to you guys for having the courage to do it first. :up:


----------



## richsadams

bareyb said:


> I have been meaning to check in with a report on the new drive install. Everything went perfectly. We all owe a debt of gratitude to the WINMFS creator. That is an elegant little bit or work there. <snip>


Thanks Barey, nice write up! :up: I've mentioned a PayPal donation link to Spike for the winMFS program more than once, but he's poo-pooed it. I think it's worth a contribution myself. Nice to hear that your TiVo's got a second life as a speedster!

Enjoy my friend.


----------



## bareyb

richsadams said:


> Thanks Barey, nice write up! :up: I've mentioned a PayPal donation link to Spike for the winMFS program more than once, but he's poo-pooed it. I think it's worth a contribution myself. Nice to hear that your TiVo's got a second life as a speedster!
> 
> Enjoy my friend.


I absolutely agree. I had planned to go back to his website and look for a donation channel. This was huge for me. I had always dreaded my TiVo going dead and having to deal with Comcast and the whole cablecard mess again. Shipping my TiVo back to TiVo and waiting for a refurb in the mail... Now I can fix it myself and my kids and i don't miss any of our shows. That's worth a lot.


----------



## deaddeeds

Just wanted to say that I successfully upgraded my Series 3 TiVo today with a Western Digital 1TB WD10EVCS Hard Drive using winMFS. The WD10EVCS Hard Drive is ultra quiet and puts out less heat than the original. I picked it up from buy.com for $125 with free shipping but beware it is a bare drive and the packaging in the box was very poor from buy.com.

Thanks for all the info in the thread.


----------



## Fofer

I replaced my Series 3 internal with a 750 GB upgrade kit (purchased from Weaknees) and it's been running fine. Now I want to expand further by plugging in a 1 TB external (eSata) add-on.

I know I have to do something, like take the upgrade kit out, plug it into a PC, and apply some command to allow for external expansion.

Can anyone tell me what that command is? Is there a link or how-to out there I can reference?


----------



## bareyb

Fofer said:


> I replaced my Series 3 internal with a 750 GB upgrade kit (purchased from Weaknees) and it's been running fine. Now I want to expand further by plugging in a 1 TB external (eSata) add-on.
> 
> I know I have to do something, like take the upgrade kit out, plug it into a PC, and apply some command to allow for external expansion.
> 
> Can anyone tell me what that command is? Is there a link or how-to out there I can reference?


The command in WINMFS is called "MFSADD". They have most all of the possible scenarios on the first page of this thread which is where I copied this from. They really need to rename this thread because it's about more than just external storage. It also outlines most of the functions that WINMFS can do.



> *What is the method to add an eSATA drive if I have a TiVoHD or I previously upgraded my TiVo?*
> 
> If building your own eSATA drive, be sure to see FAQ #25 for drive, cable, and enclosure recommendations.
> 
> This method requires that you remove the TiVo's internal drive, connect it to your PC, and use the WinMFS or the MFSLive software. It is not difficult, but it does require some time. Instructions are below.
> 
> Remove the cover screws from the rear of the case using a torx screwdriver in the T10 size. Put the screws in a safe place. If you don't have a torx screwdriver of appropriate length, you can purchase the Star Driver T10 Ampro (9014713) from Advance Auto Parts for about $4.
> 
> Place the TiVo on a flat surface such as a desk or counter top.
> 
> With the front of the TivoHD facing you, slide the top cover around 1/4 inch toward the rear (away from you) until it appears to stop traveling.
> 
> Grab the top cover in the lower front corner on both sides and pull outward on both sides just a little and the cover will slide the rest of the way off.
> 
> Remove the four screws holding the drive down with the same Torx T10 screwdriver. Disconnect the SATA cable and power cable from the drive.
> 
> Turn off your computer and connect your internal SATA drive and the new external SATA drive. You can open your computer and connect both with SATA cables, or you can connect them both externally using a pair of SATA->USB adapters. If you are connecting a retail eSATA drive to the SATA port on your PC, you will also need a SATA -> eSATA cable such as the SIIG CB-SA0311-S1 (Buy.com, TheNerds.net, or ProVantage.com) or the PPA Int'l 3848 (Newegg.com).
> 
> Both drives should be connected to your PC at the same time.
> 
> To "marry" the built-in drive and external eSATA drive for use in the TiVo:
> 
> If you have a PC running Windows XP (SP2) or Windows Vista, download WinMFS here.
> 
> Turn on your computer and launch WinMFS in Windows. If using Windows Vista, you'll want to launch WinMFS by right-clicking on WinMFS.exe and selecting "Run as Administrator."
> 
> In WinMFS, click 'Select Drive' and select the two drives you attached. Set 'Drive A' to the TiVo's built-in drive and 'Drive B' to the external drive.
> 
> Select Tools -> Mfsadd.
> 
> If you don't have a PC running Windows XP (SP2) or Windows Vista, then you'll need to use the MFSLive Linux Boot CD image. You can download that here. Burn that image to CD.
> 
> Boot your computer with the MFSLive Boot CD. You may have to adjust the PC's BIOS to boot from the CD instead of the PC's internal hard drive.
> 
> Carefully ensure that the new internal drive is designated 'sda' and the external drive is designated as 'sdb.' You can use Shift+PageUp after you have booted up to see which drive is where.
> 
> Use the following command:
> 
> For Tivo S3 (TCD648250B)
> mfsadd -r 4 -ex /dev/sda /dev/sdb
> 
> For TivoHD (TCD652160)
> mfsadd -r 4 -x /dev/sda /dev/sdb
> 
> If you need more detailed instructions, see the Series3 section of the MFSLive Software Guide.
> 
> Shutdown your computer and disconnect the drives.
> 
> Reinstall the internal drive, replace the TiVo's outer case, and connect the eSATA drive.
> 
> You're done.
> 
> Note these steps are unnecessary if you are adding Western Digital's My DVR Expander to a stock TivoHD. In that case, just follow the instructions in FAQ #7.


----------



## Fofer

Awesome, bareyb. Thanks for that, it's exactly what I needed. Sounds straightforward enough. 

And this won't delete any of my recordings or season passes, right?


----------



## Fofer

Just doing some quick shopping and it seems like these are pretty good deals for an expansion plan:

Antec MX-1 USB/e-SATA 3.5-Inch Hard Drive Enclosure $34.84 on Amazon
Western Digital AV-GP WD10EVCS Hard Drive  $124.99 on Buy.com

Anything else I need? Any other/better deals out there?


----------



## bareyb

Fofer said:


> Just doing some quick shopping and it seems like these are pretty good deals for an expansion plan:
> 
> Antec MX-1 USB/e-SATA 3.5-Inch Hard Drive Enclosure $34.84 on Amazon
> Western Digital AV-GP WD10EVCS Hard Drive  $124.99 on Buy.com
> 
> Anything else I need? Any other/better deals out there?


The only other thing you need is a way to hook up your drives to your PC. Either internally with SATA cables or externally with a USB adapter or enclosure. Beyond that, I think you are ready to go.


----------



## Big Ry

I've been considering the Seagate Pipeline HD (model#: ST31000533cs) 1 TB option and need some advice on an enclosure. The drive will be in near constant operation i fear, so the enclosure having a fan would be a plus. Also, if anyone has any experience with this particular drive, any advice or criticism would be helpful.


----------



## richsadams

Big Ry said:


> I've been considering the Seagate Pipeline HD (model#: ST31000533cs) 1 TB option and need some advice on an enclosure. The drive will be in near constant operation i fear, so the enclosure having a fan would be a plus. Also, if anyone has any experience with this particular drive, any advice or criticism would be helpful.


The Antec MX-1 is by far the highest of recommended external enclosures here. Easy to use and fan cooled. :up:

I've no experience with that model, but have been using Seagate drives for years and consider them the best. That said, I've been using a 1TB WD GP drive in our TiVo for over a year and it's been flawless.

*EDIT*: Some Seagate drives can be loud to very loud but I just checked the acoustic specs on the ST31000533cs, 2.7 to 2.9 bels which is fairly quiet (although there are other models running as quiet as 2.4 bels now) and they market it as a PVR/DVR drive...so not a bad choice as far as I can see.


----------



## myblubu

richsadams said:


> This post caught my attention the other day. The OP is claiming to be successfully using one of the new 3 platter 1TB WD10EACS drives in a Series3. I've asked him if he's tried a soft reboot (the downfall of this drive previously) but no answer as of yet. It'll be interesting to find out if they've altered them to the point of being useful for S3's once again. The early models worked, then they didn't, now they do? Sheesh!  To be continued.
> 
> BTW, to be clear and until we have proof positive that the new WD10EACS works in every aspect in a Series3, they are still to be avoided...but as you point out they are fine for TiVo HD upgrades or as eSATA drives for either model.


First of all - this is my first post here - MANY thanks to all of the posters, this is a great resource for someone just getting into the TiVo scene!

I just purchased a used Tivo HD this week and quicly starting to realize I would like to upgrade the internal hard drive. I've read a few pages here and I come across some postings that mention the WD10EACS works fine and others that say that there is a 'soft boot' problem when using this drive.

Looking at this post, is this 'soft boot' problem only with the T3? Would I experience any issues upgrading my Tivo HD unit to the WD10EACS?

A local store has the WD10EACS on sale and today is the last day for the sale. I was thinking of picking one up.

Any advantages/disadvantages of the WD10EACS over the other WD models I've seen listed in this forum (WD10EADS, WD10EVCS, WD10EVVS)?

Also the 1 year warranty on my unit isn't up until the end of the year, so I'm wondering should I wait until after the unit is out of warranty to upgrade it???


----------



## bkdtv

myblubu said:


> Any advantages/disadvantages of the WD10EACS over the other WD models I've seen listed in this forum (WD10EADS, WD10EVCS, WD10EVVS)?


The WD10EACS is an older model that was released prior to the availablity of the "designed for DVR" models (WD10EVCS, WD10EVVS). See FAQ #30 in the first post has more information.

TiVo uses the WD10EVVS in their $599 TivoHD XL. The WD10EVVS is a cheaper version of the WD10EVCS with 8Mb cache instead of 16Mb. You can get the WD10EVCS for $129.99 shipped.


----------



## richsadams

myblubu said:


> Any advantages/disadvantages of the WD10EACS over the other WD models I've seen listed in this forum (WD10EADS, WD10EVCS, WD10EVVS)?
> 
> Also the 1 year warranty on my unit isn't up until the end of the year, so I'm wondering should I wait until after the unit is out of warranty to upgrade it???


Everything you need to know is included in the first post of this thread. bkdtv has done a stellar job of keeping it up to date. (Although I do wish the moderators could change the name of the thread to something like "The Official TiVo HD, HDXL and Series3 Hard Drive FAQ" or something of that nature to better reflect all of the info it includes now...but that's OT here.)

You can upgrade your TiVo HD with the WD10EACS or the others bkdtv suggests without fear. It was the Series3's that incurred the soft reboot issues. The only caveat is that the WD10EACS is a bit louder than the "DVR dedicated" drives. You can "tune" the acoustics by using a program the Hitachi Feature Tool while you have it connected to your PC if you'd like. Me? I'd go with the drive bkdtv recommends, the WD10EVVS and be done with it.

With regard to the warranty. Yes, opening the box will void the warranty. However TiVo has no way of knowing that you've done anything unless you tell them or leave evidence behind (so don't be like some doctors and leave something inside  ). The rule of thumb is to install your new hard drive and put the old one on the shelf. That way if something goes wrong you can always reinstall the original drive and return the box to TiVo and they will be none the wiser. Plus you'll have a perfect backup drive if something goes wrong with your new one.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## myblubu

richsadams said:


> Everything you need to know is included in the first post of this thread. bkdtv has done a stellar job of keeping it up to date. (Although I do wish the moderators could change the name of the thread to something like "The Official TiVo HD, HDXL and Series3 Hard Drive FAQ" or something of that nature to better reflect all of the info it includes now...but that's OT here.)
> 
> You can upgrade your TiVo HD with the WD10EACS or the others bkdtv suggests without fear. It was the Series3's that incurred the soft reboot issues. The only caveat is that the WD10EACS is a bit louder than the "DVR dedicated" drives. You can "tune" the acoustics by using a program the Hitachi Feature Tool while you have it connected to your PC if you'd like. Me? I'd go with the drive bkdtv recommends, the WD10EVVS and be done with it.
> 
> With regard to the warranty. Yes, opening the box will void the warranty. However TiVo has no way of knowing that you've done anything unless you tell them or leave evidence behind (so don't be like some doctors and leave something inside  ). The rule of thumb is to install your new hard drive and put the old one on the shelf. That way if something goes wrong you can always reinstall the original drive and return the box to TiVo and they will be none the wiser. Plus you'll have a perfect backup drive if something goes wrong with your new one.
> 
> Happy upgrading!


Thanks bkdtv & richsadams! I'm going to get a drive and proceed with my upgrade next week. I was thinking the same thing in referenc to having the original drive as a spare. I think I am going to go for the 10EACS (about $20 cheaper) and use the utility to adjust the parameters for the acustics. I'll report back how it turns out.

Thanks again!


----------



## 1283

richsadams said:


> However TiVo has no way of knowing that you've done anything unless you tell them or leave evidence behind


TiVo definitely knows if you have upgraded the drive as soon as the unit calls home.


----------



## richsadams

c3 said:


> TiVo definitely knows if you have upgraded the drive as soon as the unit calls home.


True enough...in their logs if someone there were to take the time to look things up. Of course that also means that if one upgrades their internal drive and then calls in with a problem that might trip them up...so it's best to keep things simple by putting the original drive back in if something goes south.

My point was that AFAIK no one has ever been denied a warranty replacement if they return the unit with the original drive.


----------



## Fofer

Just to be sure, I wanted to re-ask this question that got overlooked, before I dive in. I plan to run MFSADD via WINMFS:



Fofer said:


> And this won't delete any of my recordings or season passes, right?


----------



## bareyb

Fofer said:


> Just to be sure, I wanted to re-ask this question that got overlooked, before I dive in. I plan to run MFSADD via WINMFS:


It appears from the FAQ that it doesn't delete anything and only "adds" but since I haven't done it myself I can't say for sure. I would hate to tell you go ahead and then have you lose data. It is my impression that this is the same as if you had added the external drive using the TiVo's built in functioning and thus would retain all the recordings on your internal drive. Seems logical to me. Hopefully, somebody who knows for sure will chime in.


----------



## txporter

bareyb said:


> It appears from the FAQ that it doesn't delete anything and only "adds" but since I haven't done it myself I can't say for sure. I would hate to tell you go ahead and then have you lose data. It is my impression that this is the same as if you had added the external drive using the TiVo's built in functioning and thus would retain all the recordings on your internal drive. Seems logical to me. Hopefully, somebody who knows for sure will chime in.


MFSADD doesn't affect the data that is already stored on your internal drive when you pair with an external. Did it myself about 3-4 months ago. However, when my external flamed out and I had to divorce, I lost everything from the day I married them with MFSADD.

Jason


----------



## Fofer

txporter said:


> MFSADD doesn't affect the data that is already stored on your internal drive when you pair with an external. Did it myself about 3-4 months ago. However, when my external flamed out and I had to divorce, I lost everything from the day I married them with MFSADD.
> 
> Jason


Ah, thanks for this, very helpful information. Also good to know that anything that was recorded _prior_ to the MFSADD marriage was still intact after your external died. (I'd have figured that everything would be lost.)

Thanks for the feedback, txporter and bareyb.


----------



## myblubu

Okay, I'm going through the instructions, getting ready to install my new WD10EACS into my Tivo HD. I'm reading through everything before I start to make sure I don't have questions and then I noticed this in #11:

9. In WinMFS, click 'Select Drive' and select the two drives you attached. Set 'Drive A' to the original drive. Do not select 'Drive B.

It may be obvious when I actually start the process, but does this step conflict with itself ('select the two drives' then 'Do not select Drive B'). Let me know if I'm missing something here.

Thanks!


----------



## jlib

Read it as: "Do not select Drive B _as the original drive."_


----------



## myblubu

jlib said:


> Read: "Do not select 'Drive B _as the original drive."_


Makes sense. Thanks!


----------



## bareyb

By the way. I wanted to do a "shout out" to bkdtv for taking the time to put together this FAQ. You made this so easy and you've provided a great service to the community. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you! I am SO glad I know how to do this stuff now. It really gives me some great peace of mind. :up:


----------



## alluu

Sorry if this has been answered before. I read the FAQ but am still unclear as to whether this can currently be done. 

I have a S3 with the original HD and a 750 GB eSATA drive (MX-1 and Seagate HD) attached. This has been working flawlessly for the past year. I am looking to add more storage.

I would like to have the ability to transfer over my recorded shows. Can I upgrade both the internal HD to 1 TB and the external drive to 1 TB and transfer over my recorded shows? Based upon FAQ 17 and 18, it sounds like this is doable if I am expanding both drives. If I am reading FAQ 15 correctly, that only applies if I am looking to backup both drives to one larger drive. Correct? 

Worse case scenario if I can't do the above, I guess I could just upgrade my external drive to 1.5 TB. The positive to this is that I would leave the original HD intact.


----------



## Fofer

What's a good price on a 1.5 TB? What's the largest capacity out there?


----------



## richsadams

Everyone should be aware that TiVo Series3 and TiVo HD capacity is limited to 2TB and 2.2TB respectively. (IIRC it has to do with the partition size limits and/or the Linux kernel in v9.4) Anything above that would require hardware RAID. In addition AFAIK no one here has had success with a 1.5TB internal upgrade of any sort although I think someone here does have a 1.5TB eSATA connected to a TiVo with an OEM internal drive.

Plus there are less than stellar reviews (here and here) of Seagate's 1.5TB hard drives to date. 1TB drives (internal and/or external) would still be the order of the day for TiVo.

That said, for anyone wanting to experiment Newegg has 1.5TB Seagates for $119.99 including shipping right now.

EDIT: It appears that Seagate is addressing the problems their 1.5TB drives had with a firmware update. More here.


----------



## txporter

alluu said:


> I would like to have the ability to transfer over my recorded shows. Can I upgrade both the internal HD to 1 TB and the external drive to 1 TB and transfer over my recorded shows? Based upon FAQ 17 and 18, it sounds like this is doable if I am expanding both drives. If I am reading FAQ 15 correctly, that only applies if I am looking to backup both drives to one larger drive. Correct?


Rich has already answered the question about upgrading the internal and external drives, but I think you were also asking whether there is a way to copy the info from your two current drives (internal + external) to new drives. Currently, I don't believe there is a way to copy your programming from a two drive system unless you were to download all of your shows to a PC/Mac. MFSCOPY works well for a single drive to a single drive, but I don't believe it works for two.

Jason


----------



## ajburgh

richsadams said:


> Everyone should be aware that TiVo Series3 and TiVo HD capacity is limited to 2TB and 2.2TB respectively. (IIRC it has to do with the partition size limits and/or the Linux kernel in v9.4)


Has that changed? The FAQ in the first post says that only the TivoHD allows disk sizes IN EXCESS of 2.2TB, the series 3 is limited to 2.2TB max.


----------



## richsadams

ajburgh said:


> Has that changed? The FAQ in the first post says that only the TivoHD allows disk sizes IN EXCESS of 2.2TB, the series 3 is limited to 2.2TB max.


I've been following this thread on the mfsLive forum and there's still some back-and-forth, but as best as I can determine Spike is saying that anything above 2.2TB requires RAID. See what you think.


----------



## ajburgh

richsadams said:


> I've been following this thread on the mfsLive forum and there's still some back-and-forth, but as best as I can determine Spike is saying that anything above 2.2TB requires RAID. See what you think.


I think that's more because there was (is) no other way to do it. There simply weren't any drives (and still aren't) that are bigger than 2.2TB. The RAID looks like a single big drive to the TIVO, so if someone came out with a 3TB drive I'm pretty sure it would work on the TivoHD. I'll let you know for sure in a couple of years.


----------



## alluu

txporter said:


> Rich has already answered the question about upgrading the internal and external drives, but I think you were also asking whether there is a way to copy the info from your two current drives (internal + external) to new drives. Currently, I don't believe there is a way to copy your programming from a two drive system unless you were to download all of your shows to a PC/Mac. MFSCOPY works well for a single drive to a single drive, but I don't believe it works for two.
> 
> Jason


Has anyone tried this? I may just upgrade my external drive from 750 GB to 1 TB if 1.5 TB is having issues.

Can I backup the recordings on my eSATA drive and restore it to an eSATA drive of larger size?

This should be possible, but it is untested. As indicated in the previous FAQ, you would backup the contents of the old drive to the new drive using the dd or dd_rescue commands. Once you've done that, you would use mfsadd to enable the extra capacity on that drive. Credit to spike2k5 for this answer.


----------



## Lenonn

alluu said:


> Has anyone tried this? I may just upgrade my external drive from 750 GB to 1 TB if 1.5 TB is having issues.
> 
> Can I backup the recordings on my eSATA drive and restore it to an eSATA drive of larger size?
> 
> This should be possible, but it is untested. As indicated in the previous FAQ, you would backup the contents of the old drive to the new drive using the dd or dd_rescue commands. Once you've done that, you would use mfsadd to enable the extra capacity on that drive. Credit to spike2k5 for this answer.


Tom's Hardware has an article on the 1.5TB issues.

BTW, I am thinking of removing the hard drives in my Series 3 and TiVo HD and putting in 1 TB drives. The WD10EVCS drives look good. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that drive will work in both the HD and Series 3 TiVos?


----------



## richsadams

Lenonn said:


> BTW, I am thinking of removing the hard drives in my Series 3 and TiVo HD and putting in 1 TB drives. The WD10EVCS drives look good. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that drive will work in both the HD and Series 3 TiVos?


You are correct sir! :up: Several folks here (including our friend Greg IIRC) are successfully using the 1TB WD10EVCS as internal drive upgrades in Series3's and TiVo HD's.

Noted that Buy.com has them for $124.99 w/free shipping which is pretty good. Curious if you found them for less anywhere else?.


----------



## Lenonn

richsadams said:


> You are correct sir! :up: Several folks here (including our friend Greg IIRC) are successfully using the 1TB WD10EVCS as internal drive upgrades in Series3's and TiVo HD's.
> 
> Noted that Buy.com has them for $124.99 w/free shipping which is pretty good. Curious if you found them for less anywhere else?.


I have't found them for cheaper, but I was willing to pay Amazon's $160 price since I have Amazon Prime. I'll definitely check out Buy's price. I haven't ordered from them in awhile.


----------



## sbourgeo

GBL said:


> What makes you say that? My oldest TiVos, from early 2000, came with Quantum drives. IIRC, Quantum was later bought out by Maxtor, which was acquired by Seagate.





richsadams said:


> You are correct sir! :up: Several folks here (including our friend Greg IIRC) are successfully using the 1TB WD10EVCS as internal drive upgrades in Series3's and TiVo HD's.
> 
> Noted that Buy.com has them for $124.99 w/free shipping which is pretty good. Curious if you found them for less anywhere else?.


I put a 1 TB WD10EVCS from buy.com into my TiVo HD this morning, and had no issues. FWIW, you can save an additional 5% at buy.com with this coupon: link.


----------



## richsadams

sbourgeo said:


> I put a 1 TB WD10EVCS from buy.com into my TiVo HD this morning, and had no issues. FWIW, you can save an additional 5% at buy.com with this coupon: link.


Nice! :up:


----------



## richsadams

For anyone upgrading the internal hard drive in their TiVo HD or HDXL or wanting to add an eSATA drive to their HD, HDXL or Series3, the WD10EACS is on sale for $94.99 w/free shipping at Newegg. ($99.99 less Black Friday $5 coupon code EMCBBCJBH)

NOTE: This drive should NOT be used to upgrade the internal drive in the Series3 due to a soft reboot issue.


----------



## err

Thanks for the coupon  I pulled the trigger on this and am going to add this to my Tivo Series3.



richsadams said:


> For anyone upgrading the internal hard drive in their TiVo HD or HDXL or wanting to add an eSATA drive to their HD, HDXL or Series3, the WD10EACS is on sale for $94.99 w/free shipping at Newegg. ($99.99 less Black Friday $5 coupon code EMCBBCJBH)
> 
> NOTE: This drive should NOT be used to upgrade the internal drive in the Series3 due to a soft reboot issue.


----------



## richsadams

err said:


> Thanks for the coupon  I pulled the trigger on this and am going to add this to my Tivo Series3.


Nice. Amazon has the recommended Antec MX-1 for $36.70 enclosure w/free shipping - a pretty good price. Put them together and ta-dah...lots of new real estate!

Enjoy!


----------



## myblubu

I decided on the WD10EACS to upgrade my Tivo HD. I almost bought one from buy.com but then decided to do a search on ebay and there were a few large computer parts companies selling them for around $109-110 with free shipping. I found out about a 25-30&#37; off ebay purchases of some Buy-It-Now items when linked through a live.com search. I bought the drive and $27.50 was instantly put in my paypal account from live.com. I have since transferred the 27.50 to my bank account. The drive was shipped via FedEx and is scheduled to arrive Tuesday. So after all the dust settled, my cost was $81.75. I downloaded the Hitachi tool to change the drive setting for quite operation. So if using the Hitachi tool doesn't scare you, this may be an inexpensive way to get a WD 1TB, or the same logic can be used to get the WD10EVCS which was going for about $124 on ebay. 

I think you normally have to wait 60 days to get your live.com cashback but I think they are running some sort of a special with immediate cashback for a few days. 

Figured I would mention it, just in case anyone else was in the market for a 1TB & doesn't mind the cashback procedures.


----------



## TheGrossman

Hello everyone...quick question for you,
I know that you can only use a plug-n-play e-sata drive if you have an UNMODIFIED internal drive in a series3 tivo, but does replacing the original drive with a different brand drive with a larger cache (Seagate DB35 for example) OF THE SAME SIZE (250GB) and using WinMFS to copy EVERYTHING over make it a MODIFIED tivo or UNMODIFIED?
Thanks!!


----------



## richsadams

TheGrossman said:


> Hello everyone...quick question for you,
> I know that you can only use a plug-n-play e-sata drive if you have an UNMODIFIED internal drive in a series3 tivo, but does replacing the original drive with a different brand drive with a larger cache (Seagate DB35 for example) OF THE SAME SIZE (250GB) and using WinMFS to copy EVERYTHING over make it a MODIFIED tivo or UNMODIFIED?
> Thanks!!


It makes it modified. TiVo recognizes drives by their model number; size is meaningless (at least in this case  ). You'll need to marry the eSATA drive during the winMFS process with your new drive...quite easy, just follow the directions.

Why only a 250GB replacement? Keep in mind that if you want to upgrade to a larger drive later that you'll lose all of your recordings (again). 1TB drives for your Series3 like the recommended WD10EVCS are <$130 or so now. I'd try and swing as large a drive as you can afford to avoid disappointment and regret in the future.


----------



## TheGrossman

Thanks Rich!
Since the 250GB drive makes it modified I probably will go for a larger drive. If I go with a Terabyte drive I could probably get by without my external drive and use it for extra storage with my computer instead. Has anyone tried out Seagates new pipeline HD drives? I think that its part number is ST31000533CS. It sounds good although some places list it as being a 5900rpm drive and some as a 7200rpm drive. 
Thanks.


----------



## myblubu

TheGrossman said:


> Thanks Rich!
> Since the 250GB drive makes it modified I probably will go for a larger drive. If I go with a Terabyte drive I could probably get by without my external drive and use it for extra storage with my computer instead. Has anyone tried out Seagates new pipeline HD drives? I think that its part number is ST31000533CS. It sounds good although some places list it as being a 5900rpm drive and some as a 7200rpm drive.
> Thanks.


I found something similar regarding the WD10EACS - some sites listed it as 5400 and some as 7200. When I checked Western Digital's site, under speed it didn't list a number but "IntelliPower - A fine-tuned balance of spin speed, transfer rate and caching algorithms designed to deliver both significant power savings and solid performance."

So my guess is the drive has a variable speed controlled by firmware.


----------



## richsadams

TheGrossman said:


> Thanks Rich!
> Since the 250GB drive makes it modified I probably will go for a larger drive. If I go with a Terabyte drive I could probably get by without my external drive and use it for extra storage with my computer instead. Has anyone tried out Seagates new pipeline HD drives? I think that its part number is ST31000533CS. It sounds good although some places list it as being a 5900rpm drive and some as a 7200rpm drive.
> Thanks.


That's exactly what I did when I upgraded our Series3 over a year ago...took my Seagate DB35 out of the MX-1 enclosure and slipped into one of my PC's. Still working like a charm. IIRC there is a post here somewhere about the new Seagate Pipeline drive. Not sure what it said, but I don't recall there being any problems using it. YMMV of course.

Hard drive speeds do not affect TiVo; 5400 RPM drives are what they come with and faster drives don't equate to better performance due to TiVo's architecture.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## richsadams

An alert forum member found the TiVo approved WD My DVR Expander on sale at Dell for $99. Nice stocking stuffer. 

EDIT: All gone now.


----------



## Bettamojo5

I had an upgrade failure and don't know what happened. I bought a Samsung 1TB HD103UI from Newegg.com. From looking on this forum and online several people have done successful upgrades with this drive. I ran the ESTool from Samsung on the new drive and it passed all tests including a 5 hour surface san. I used WinMFS Beta Build 9.3
I took the 160GB drive from my Tivo HD and selected it as the source drive and made the Samsung drive the destination. I did a backup of the 160GB drive from my Tivo to my PC hard drive. I then used Mfscopy to copy the Tivo drive contents over to the new drive. This took about 45 minutes and at the end it reported that I had extra space and asked if I wanted to expand. I said yes and got a Windows must close WinMFS because of an error. I installed the new Samsung drive in m Tivo and got stuck on the screen that says powering up. I put the drive back in the PC and used WinMFS to delete format the new drive and I ran Mfscopy again and got the same error message. I checked the WinMFS site and found someone had the same problem and it said to answer no when asked if I want to expand. Then run Mfsadd and then turn on MfsSupersize. I did this and everything completed as it should. I installed the new drive in my Tivo HD and powered on. I got the powering up screen and then the Almost there a few more minutes screen. Then the screen went black instead of playing the Tivo into video. After several minutes it went to live TV. I pushed the Tivo button on the remote and got the Tivo Central screen, but it was black with the options in white letters. I clicked Now Playing and my programs showed up, but when I tried to play them I got a message saying. Tivo HD was not able to record this program because there was no video signal on the channel. I also was not able to connect to Tivo through my network as the original drive did. I repeated the copy process one more time with the same results. At that point I put the original drive back in the Tivo and everything seemed fine until I tried to play my recording. I got the message saying Tivo HD was not able to record this program because there was no video signal on the channel. So, I lost all my recordings, and the new drive did not work. My Tivo is connecting to the network and recording OK with the original drive. Just to be sure, I ran the EStool on the Samsung HD103UI 1TB drive again, and it reported no errors. Major disappointment. Any hints or suggestions on what went wrong?


----------



## jlib

Though there are inconsistent reports of problems with that drive your description seems more catastrophic than the typical hard boot problem. I wish I had a suggestion for you other than getting a different drive. If you have more time than money you could try using the alternate method of copying by using the MFS Live Linux boot CD. Maybe someone else will have something more helpful to say?


----------



## bareyb

jlib said:


> Though there are inconsistent reports of problems with that drive your description seems more catastrophic than the typical hard boot problem. I wish I had a suggestion for you other than getting a different drive. If you have more time than money you could try using the alternate method of copying by using the MFS Live Linux boot CD. Maybe someone else will have something more helpful to say?


Nothing to add. Bummer. If you really want to give the Samsung another go, you could try doing a simple "Truncated Backup" from your original drive and forget about trying to get anything else. It's a much simpler process and you'll have all your SP's and settings intact. Including your cable card pairing information.

If this were ME, I'd buy the best drive I could find with the least reported problems. The WD ECVS drives seem to be working well for people and are fairly cheap and have a 16 meg buffer. I've had great luck with Hitachi drives (Cinemastar and Deskstar) and they have a 32 meg buffer but cost about 30 bucks more than the WD.

Good luck. I'm sure you'll get it worked out. Sounds like you had a major error in the first process and something has gotten corrupted. Either start over with a Truncated backup and restore or try a new drive. That's about all you can do.


----------



## greg_burns

Bettamojo5 said:


> At that point I put the original drive back in the Tivo and everything seemed fine until I tried to play my recording. I got the message saying Tivo HD was not able to record this program because there was no video signal on the channel. So, I lost all my recordings, and the new drive did not work.


This is where I am confused. How did you loose the recordings on your original drive? Some step must have been done incorrectly to cause that to happen, right?

A truncated backup and restore sounds like the best thing to try at this point. Sounds like you already made the backup on your PC's Windows partition. Just restore that to the new drive.


----------



## myblubu

I did my internal Hard Disk upgrade for my Tivo HD yesterday using the WD10EACS using the instructions in this forum. I used the Hatachi tool to set the acustics and WinMFS 9.3 to perform the copy. It looks like some of the improvements in WinMFS may have combined a few of the steps in the instructions in the forum, so I'm just curious if I got the right results. When I put the new drive in my Tivo HD, it works and shows 142HD and 1241SD hours of recording capability - I thought the numbers should have been 144 and 1360. Did I miss something along the way?


----------



## richsadams

myblubu said:


> When I put the new drive in my Tivo HD, it works and shows 142HD and 1241SD hours of recording capability - I thought the numbers should have been 144 and 1360. Did I miss something along the way?


That's a first AFAIK.  S/b 144 HD and 1368 SD hours if you Supersized or IIRC 131/1241 if you didn't. I've no idea why yours would be any different, but thanks for the data point.

If it's working fine you could leave it...but the variance in the SD hours is really confusing...looks like nothing happend there but it makes no sense that the HD hours would increase (although not as expected) but not the SD hours. Or you could start over again and follow the instructions carefully to see what happens again.

Keep us posted!


----------



## richsadams

Bettamojo5 said:


> Just to be sure, I ran the EStool on the Samsung HD103UI 1TB drive again, and it reported no errors. Major disappointment. Any hints or suggestions on what went wrong?


Another forum member had recent problems with his Samsung (posted here). Not sure what model, etc. but it might be that these drives are to be avoided for now.


----------



## nigebj

Bettamojo5 said:


> I took the 160GB drive from my Tivo HD and selected it as the source drive and made the Samsung drive the destination. I did a backup of the 160GB drive from my Tivo to my PC hard drive.


It really sounds like something screwed the original drive (hence your lost recordings). If you did a backup before you did anything else, you should be able to restore to the new drive (I'm one of the people who did not have luck with the Spinpoint - but nowhere near this scale of problem). Another avenue to pursue. Otherwise, get the WD EVCS - great drive (sorry, but I'm very pleased to have left the Sammy behind now).


----------



## myblubu

richsadams said:


> That's a first AFAIK.  S/b 144 HD and 1368 SD hours if you Supersized or IIRC 131/1241 if you didn't. I've no idea why yours would be any different, but thanks for the data point.
> 
> If it's working fine you could leave it...but the variance in the SD hours is really confusing...looks like nothing happend there but it makes no sense that the HD hours would increase (although not as expected) but not the SD hours. Or you could start over again and follow the instructions carefully to see what happens again.
> 
> Keep us posted!


Thanks for the reply!

The new drive is installed and working fine so I think I'm going to just let it go. There was one point in the instructions which called for either Msadd or Supersize (I can't remember which) but the software indicated it was doing that automatically after a previous step - I kept wondering if I should have did the command anyway, but didn't. Maybe that's what happened? Anyway, I'm pleased with what I have.


----------



## richsadams

myblubu said:


> Thanks for the reply!
> 
> The new drive is installed and working fine so I think I'm going to just let it go. There was one point in the instructions which called for either Msadd or Supersize (I can't remember which) but the software indicated it was doing that automatically after a previous step - I kept wondering if I should have did the command anyway, but didn't. Maybe that's what happened? Anyway, I'm pleased with what I have.


Sounds good, but I'm betting some brighter minds will come up with the reason for what you're seeing. Enjoy!


----------



## spidermojo

I married up wd mybook 500gb external sata drive following the instructions on the FAQ but whenever I tried to hook it up, the tivo would just keep rebooting over and over again.

At first I thought it was the SATA cable and after messing around with it about 20 times I had some success. 

But the issue is not the cable. The issue is that the mybook drive automatically shuts down. So during boot up, as stated in the FAQ it needs to be spun up or it doesn't work. 

So what I do is during boot up of the tivo, everytime the drive shuts down, I just pull out and insert the power cord to keep it spinning. You keep doing this until you get a light on the mybook drive and you are good.


----------



## richsadams

spidermojo said:


> I married up wd mybook 500gb external sata drive following the instructions on the FAQ but whenever I tried to hook it up, the tivo would just keep rebooting over and over again.


Welcome to the forum. :up: Sorry it's under unfortunate circumstances. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but as noted in Section III, #6 of the first post of this thread, the eSATA drive you are trying to use does not work with TiVo. There is speculation as to why; most of it centering on the bridge that WD uses.

Although you seem to have managed to get it to work your system will ultimately fail on a soft reboot whenever there is a software upgrade.

If it turns out that the drive is not that particular model, there is something wrong with it and the above-mentioned failure will occur either way.

Hopefully you saved the packaging and can return it for one of the recommended models listed on that post.


----------



## rgr

Apologies if this has been asked and answered, but here goes: I previously upgraded my S3 with a 500g drive using mfslive and have purchased a WD10EVCS drive t replace the 500g drive. Will there be a problem doing the copy using winmfs? I see on the mfslive.org site that using mfslive there is a problem upgrading an upgrade, but can't see any reference as to whether winmfs has the same problem. I think doing a truncated copy works in either case, but I want to copy existing recordings.

Also, will deleting my deleteds permanently reduce the copy time or is the copy bit for bit?

Thanks.
[Ignore post - see next post]


----------



## rgr

Ok, ignore my previous post, I only had a couple of shows, which I transferred to my pc, then I did a truncated copy using the instructions in #29 of the first page of this topic. 

Worked like a charm, but here is the bizarro thing - when the S3 restarted after the update (including the supersize) it said it was doing a service update and rebooted, then it said it was applying the service update and restarted fine, but was now using software version 11 and has 157 HD hours and 1367 SD hours for recording capacity. Does that sound right? I would have thought it would have 144 HD. Or does the updated software have a greater compression ratio?


----------



## bkdtv

rgr said:


> when the S3 restarted after the update (including the supersize) it said it was doing a service update and rebooted, then it said it was applying the service update and restarted fine, but was now using software version 11 and has 157 HD hours and 1367 SD hours for recording capacity. Does that sound right? I would have thought it would have 144 HD. Or does the updated software have a greater compression ratio?


The v11 software changed the calculation for estimating storage space. You should see 157 HD estimated hours with a 1TB drive under v11.


----------



## richsadams

rgr said:


> Ok, ignore my previous post, I only had a couple of shows, which I transferred to my pc, then I did a truncated copy using the instructions in #29 of the first page of this topic.
> 
> Worked like a charm, but here is the bizarro thing - when the S3 restarted after the update (including the supersize) it said it was doing a service update and rebooted, then it said it was applying the service update and restarted fine, but was now using software version 11 and has 157 HD hours and 1367 SD hours for recording capacity. Does that sound right? I would have thought it would have 144 HD. Or does the updated software have a greater compression ratio?


Glad to hear things are working. After v11.0 our Series3 also shows 157HD/1367SD.


----------



## rgr

Thanks bkdtv and richsadams! While it was wierd having the new drive startup with the service update, it's good to know I didn't trash a partition.


----------



## ccrider2

Odd coincidence also: 
About a month ago I updated my S3 with a 1TB Seagate NCQ Barracuda 7200.11 Model ST31000340AS. I assumed everything went well, booted up, ran fine...I'm a happy camper....Yada Yada! But I never tried to warm boot it. Well, yesterday I finally did and I got the same notice of an impending software update. As prompted (an hour or more) it took forever to come back up. Man I was sweating bullets!   
Do you suppose this was just a fluke, or do service updates need a manual reboot to start the install process? I'm on a UPS, so I almost never cycle the power.

Perhaps, somewhat like Windows, an occasionally warm boot, "it's a good thing"   ...........thoughts?

Chris


----------



## husky55

I just received the new 11.0 Fall Update software. It did not require a manual reboot.

However, a manual reboot through Tivo menu will force a firmware update before the scheduled time.


----------



## ccrider2

husky55 said:


> I just received the new 11.0 Fall Update software. It did not require a manual reboot.
> 
> However, a manual reboot through Tivo menu will force a firmware update before the scheduled time.


Aah, Perhaps that's what happened.

Chris


----------



## Teeps

Teeps said:


> One month later; the 1TB Fantom Drive is still :up: working, though it's a little louder now than when it was empty. Still, I have to open the cabinet doors to hear it.


Another month later; the 1TB Fantom Drive is still :up: working, though it's much louder now than when it was empty, it really thumps when its reading & writing. The thumping can be easily heard when the room is quiet, when TiVo is recording two channels or doing house keeping(?). The sound of the read/write mechanism can be heard, even with the cabinet doors (glass) closed.

I can live with the extra noise... for now.


----------



## jlib

Teeps said:


> Another month later; the 1TB Fantom Drive is still :up: working, though it's much louder now than when it was empty, it really thumps when its reading & writing.


Is that the one with the WD10EACS inside? You can still run Hitachi Feature Tool to check and set the AAM acoustic settings without affecting the contents of the drive. You want them as low as they will go. Just remove the drive and attach it to a SATA port on a PC.


----------



## jlib

ccrider2 said:


> ...Do you suppose this was just a fluke, or do service updates need a manual reboot to start the install process?


Just a fluke. If you had looked at your status page it would have said something like "restart pending" which it would have done in the wee hours had you not inadvertently intervened.


----------



## alyssa

I"m looking to swap out my factory internal(250gb) in my living room S3 with a 1T HD without losing any of the recordings from the internal or the married 750 eSATA.

I've used WinMSF to upgrade my internal HD in my bedroom S3. Is MFSLive boot CD almost as easy as WinMSF? In other words, is MFSLive user friendly? Is there step by step instructions listed somewhere?


----------



## ccrider2

jlib said:


> Just a fluke. If you had looked at you status page it would have said something like "restart pending" which it would have done in the wee hours had you not inadvertently intervened.


Thanks!

I was totally off-the-wall waiting for my S3 to reboot! 

Chris


----------



## greg_burns

alyssa said:


> I"m looking to swap out my factory internal(250gb) in my living room S3 with a 1T HD without losing any of the recordings from the internal or the married 750 eSATA.
> 
> I've used WinMSF to upgrade my internal HD in my bedroom S3. Is MFSLive boot CD almost as easy as WinMSF? In other words, is MFSLive user friendly? Is there step by step instructions listed somewhere?


There is an online tool that will tell you what commands to type.

http://www.mfslive.org/cgen.php


----------



## richsadams

Just as a datapoint, on another thread a one-post member claimed that the newer WD10EACS-00D6B1 worked successfully as an internal upgrade in his Series3. He was asked to try a soft reboot (which is where the problem lies with those drives) to confirm that it would work but never came back.

A more thoughtful forum member did confirm on this post that the newer WD10EACS-00D6B1 still does NOT work as an internal hard drive upgrade in a Series3 after it failed to reboot after the latest TiVo software update. Disappointing but good to know. Hopefully others (no matter how well meaning) will not post inaccurate information which could cause others grief down the road.

Again that particular drive will work as an internal hard drive upgrade with TiVo HD's and HDXL's or as an eSATA drive on all three models, just not internally with S3's.

The WD10EVCS is a better bet these days as it will work internally or as an expansion drive for all TiVo's.


----------



## Majik45

I performed an internal hard drive upgrade on Friday night/Saturday morning with the WD10EVCS 1TB hard drive. It was extremely simple with the instructions in this forumn. Thanks to all as now we have plenty of room on the Tivo to go on vacation for a week and not worry about missing shows.


----------



## richsadams

Majik45 said:


> I performed an internal hard drive upgrade on Friday night/Saturday morning with the WD10EVCS 1TB hard drive.


Nice. Enjoy! :up:


----------



## pdxsam

Having upgraded a Series 1 several times years ago I was wondering how easy it would be to upgrade my new HD. 40 minutes from start to finish ( no recordings on the drive). That includes opening the Tivo, pulling the drive, backing it up, restoring it, marrying it to my external sata and putting it all back together. It couldn't have been easier.

One thing I found when upgrading, the Hitachi Software wouldn't find my drive unless it was in Drive 0 on the sata bus. Any other port I had it plugged into it was ignored. 

Fios install on Sunday and I'm good to go. Let's hope the installer has an M card for me.


----------



## The Swami

richsadams said:


> Glad to hear things are working. After v11.0 our Series3 also shows 157HD/1367SD.


looks like my recording hours have changed as well. My Series3 just got the 11.0 software downloaded and installed last night. My Cinemastar 1TB drive used to read the expected 165/1561 storage variable max, now it's magically increased to 179/1561. 14 'free' hours of HD! lol


----------



## alyssa

Thanks Greg & Rich

The WD10EVCS seems to be on sale at macmall for $130

The link did produce a command line. I was a little confused tho. Should I enter my married eSATA drive as "B" or just leave it blank?

However there is a thread on MSFLive to which I posted. Spike indicated there wasn't a way to upgrade the internal with and eSATA and preserve the recordings.


> For S3, you can't do that w/o loosing recordings as of yet.
> I need to fix mfslive linuxcd / mfstools to be able to that.


I also asked Spike if there was a guesstimate of an ETA for the software. His response was 'this year or maybe next' 
I didn't quite have the courage to ask if he meant in the next few weeks...

eta;
This all may be moot if the Netflix library is deep enough.


----------



## jsinga

Hi,
Will this drive work as an internal upgrade in an S3?
Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000 1000GB Hard Drive - 7200RPM, 32MB, Serial ATA-300, OEM
It's $79 after rebate at Tiger Direct. 

JS


----------



## bareyb

jsinga said:


> Hi,
> Will this drive work as an internal upgrade in an S3?
> Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000 1000GB Hard Drive - 7200RPM, 32MB, Serial ATA-300, OEM
> It's $79 after rebate at Tiger Direct.
> 
> JS


That's an awesome Hard Drive. One of the best. I'm using two of them in my Series 3's right now (well one Cinemastar but basically the same thing) The only problem with it usually is the price. THAT is an amazing price. Got a direct link?


----------



## jsinga

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3333210&Sku=TSD-1000H3

This should take you right to the Tiger Direct page.
I didnt read the fine print on the rebate yet.

JS


----------



## jlib

But wait, it gets better than that. Use the live.com ad link to Tiger Direct for an extra 15% off. Its limbo time. How low can you go?


----------



## ThAbtO

jlib said:


> But wait, it gets better than that. Use the live.com ad link to Tiger Direct for an extra 15% off. Its limbo time. How low can you go?


Here are all the available coupon offers for Tigerdirect.com


----------



## lrhorer

richsadams said:


> Just as a datapoint, on another thread a one-post member claimed that the newer WD10EACS-00D6B1 worked successfully as an internal upgrade in his Series3...
> 
> A more thoughtful forum member did confirm on this post that the newer WD10EACS-00D6B1 still does NOT work as an internal hard drive upgrade in a Series3 after it failed to reboot after the latest TiVo software update.


I don't for a moment doubt the veracity of these forum members, but man, is that weird! Admittedly, it is nearly as weird that the Hitachi Deskstar 500G drives won't work as a primary drive for the TiVo HD, and I ran into that one myself. The truly bizarre thing is the TiVo kernel is mostly just a stock Linux kernel. It's genuinely schizoid that some drives will work while others won't.



richsadams said:


> Again that particular drive will work as an internal hard drive upgrade with TiVo HD's and HDXL's or as an eSATA drive on all three models, just not internally with S3's.


And that's just truly goofy. It works until the first soft reboot. It works as long as one doesn't boot from it. 'Unbelievable.


----------



## wedenton

I've ordered drives from TigerDirect before with no problems, but the 2 drives I bought on Black Friday were not packaged well for shipping. They were shipped separately, and each arrived in a pink cardboard box with no cushion or packing material whatsoever other than a crumpled up piece of brown paper. *The drives were sliding around in the box. *One was DOA, and I'm still running diagnostics on the other. I think the pink boxes were part of their breast cancer campaign, and maybe they are doing a better job of packing drives now, but I'm not going to risk buying drives from them again. YMMV.


----------



## jlib

lrhorer said:


> ...And that's just truly goofy. It works until the first soft reboot. It works as long as one doesn't boot from it. 'Unbelievable.


Indeed. It made no sense to me either (I can personally verify it is true, though). Since it works perfectly well otherwise, it is not so bad on a practical level if one is aware of the time frame for software upgrades (just have to check for the pending restart message every night during update season).


----------



## bkdtv

I added a fourth section to the FAQ, "Unsupported Internal Drive Upgrades."

This new section is still a work in progress.


----------



## Teeps

jlib said:


> Is that the one with the WD10EACS inside? You can still run Hitachi Feature Tool to check and set the AAM acoustic settings without affecting the contents of the drive. You want them as low as they will go. Just remove the drive and attach it to a SATA port on a PC.


Thanks for the tip. 
Have you used this utility on the Fantom drive?
I was reading the Feature Tool User's Guide (imagine that) and it says this does not work on external drives. 
I don't mind trying but if there is no chance it will work, I'll pass.


----------



## greg_burns

Teeps said:


> Thanks for the tip.
> Have you used this utility on the Fantom drive?
> I was reading the Feature Tool User's Guide (imagine that) and it says this does not work on external drives.
> I don't mind trying but if there is no chance it will work, I'll pass.


Can you remove the drive from the enclosure?


----------



## bareyb

bkdtv said:


> I added a fourth section to the FAQ, "Unsupported Internal Drive Upgrades."
> 
> This new section is still a work in progress.


I gotta tell you bktv, you are a master at explaining how to do things. Truly gifted. Your work will live on here for a long time to come. I sure wish you'd go over to the TTG forums and help those Unix guys write up a decent FAQ! They seriously need your talents over there! 

I see someone finally changed the name of the thread to something that reflects internal HDD upgrades. Excellent. That'll save Rich and a few others around here the trouble of pointing people to your FAQ.


----------



## brucem5755

myblubu said:


> The new drive is installed and working fine so I think I'm going to just let it go. There was one point in the instructions which called for either Msadd or Supersize (I can't remember which) but the software indicated it was doing that automatically after a previous step - I kept wondering if I should have did the command anyway, but didn't. Maybe that's what happened? Anyway, I'm pleased with what I have.


I also upgraded using the WD10EACS, the instructions in this forum, and WinMFS 9.3 to perform the copy. My Tivo HD also shows 142HD and 1241SD hours of recording capability. From the description you gave, it sounds like we both used the software in the same manner... the software detected the extra space at the end of the copy process and asked if it should run MFSADD for me. I selected yes, and then followed to turn on the supersize.

My TIVO also appears to function correctly, although the storage numbers are less than others are reporting. I am curious where the difference lies ..


----------



## bkdtv

brucem5755 said:


> My TIVO also appears to function correctly, although the storage numbers are less than others are reporting. I am curious where the difference lies ..


It sounds like _Tools-> MfsSuperSize -> On_ never took effect.


----------



## Cheezmo

What didn't work and what did...

Tivo purchased from Weaknees with 250Gb drive.
Upgrading to 1 Tb.
Didn't want to mess with cable cards so did not do a Clear & Delete before hand, but did delete all but 5 or 6 shows.

What didn't work.
Using WinMFS to do a backup, then restoring it to the new drive. Even with out changing the size, this resulted in a green screen reboot cycle.

What did work.
Using WinMFS' MFSCopy command to copy the drive, testing that it worked, then using WinMFS' MfsAdd command to expand the drive. Filled it all the way to where it was having to delete old shows, no problems. Did not try supersize.

I was a bit disappointed that I wasn't able to make a usable compact backup, but at least I still have the original drive to go back to in case of issues.


----------



## ajcowell

Not sure if this is a common issue (my search didn't turn up much but I might have just used the wrong terms). I upgraded my THD with a 1GB drive. All works fine - the only issue I've had is trying to reattach my WD DVR Expander. The THD sees the drive, and asks if I want to use it (YES), goes through the reboot cycle but comes up without it being attached. It then asks if I would like to use the external drive, and on and on. I did read someone say it can take a few reboots but after doing it continually for an hour now, I see this just isn't going to work. I've check the cabling and all seems fine. It worked great prior to the drive upgrade. Any ideas?? Thanks.


----------



## ajcowell

Count me in as another that has exactly the same figures as you quote below (I also ran supersize). Perhaps there is an issue with WinMFS with these drives? Seems unusual but...oh, and this is with running the OS11 update.



brucem5755 said:


> I also upgraded using the WD10EACS, the instructions in this forum, and WinMFS 9.3 to perform the copy. My Tivo HD also shows 142HD and 1241SD hours of recording capability. From the description you gave, it sounds like we both used the software in the same manner... the software detected the extra space at the end of the copy process and asked if it should run MFSADD for me. I selected yes, and then followed to turn on the supersize.
> 
> My TIVO also appears to function correctly, although the storage numbers are less than others are reporting. I am curious where the difference lies ..


----------



## greg_burns

ajcowell said:


> Not sure if this is a common issue (my search didn't turn up much but I might have just used the wrong terms). I upgraded my THD with a 1GB drive. All works fine - the only issue I've had is trying to reattach my WD DVR Expander. The THD sees the drive, and asks if I want to use it (YES), goes through the reboot cycle but comes up without it being attached. It then asks if I would like to use the external drive, and on and on. I did read someone say it can take a few reboots but after doing it continually for an hour now, I see this just isn't going to work. I've check the cabling and all seems fine. It worked great prior to the drive upgrade. Any ideas?? Thanks.


Once you upgrade your internal drive you cannot attach an external drive via plug-n-play anymore. You must marry the two drives together using WinMFS.


----------



## ajcowell

Thanks, I kinda guessed that might be the answer. And I thought I was being smart by buying a SATA-USB dock with my drive...I guess I better wander through the thread and see what adapter people suggest. Thanks again for the quick reply.



greg_burns said:


> Once you upgrade your internal drive you cannot attach an external drive via plug-n-play anymore. You must marry the two drives together using WinMFS.


----------



## ajcowell

Mmm, noticed this link:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Disassembling-a-Western-Digital-My-Book

So, as I've got an old My Book (broken) to play with, I'm going to try and see how difficult it is to pull the drive, put it in my SATA dock and do the marrying. Course, the proof in the pudding is whether it'll boot after I put it all back together again....

I wonder if I can just drop another 1TB drive in there and have a 1TB expander? I think I read something about Tivo not recognizing that much space. Will need to do some more reading.



ajcowell said:


> Thanks, I kinda guessed that might be the answer. And I thought I was being smart by buying a SATA-USB dock with my drive...I guess I better wander through the thread and see what adapter people suggest. Thanks again for the quick reply.


----------



## ajcowell

Ah, amazing what you find out when you read the FAQ in detail, looks like it is the actual drive in the expander that is approved, nothing to do with the enclosure. I did extract the drive from the Expander, use MFS to add it to the 1TB internal and checked supersize (was having some issues matching some of the capacity numbers mentioned in the thread). Now I'm up to 237 HD, 2072 SD. Now if there was just something interesting on TV!





ajcowell said:


> Mmm, noticed this link:
> 
> http://www.instructables.com/id/Disassembling-a-Western-Digital-My-Book
> 
> So, as I've got an old My Book (broken) to play with, I'm going to try and see how difficult it is to pull the drive, put it in my SATA dock and do the marrying. Course, the proof in the pudding is whether it'll boot after I put it all back together again....
> 
> I wonder if I can just drop another 1TB drive in there and have a 1TB expander? I think I read something about Tivo not recognizing that much space. Will need to do some more reading.


----------



## MapleLeaf

brucem5755 said:


> I also upgraded using the WD10EACS, the instructions in this forum, and WinMFS 9.3 to perform the copy. My Tivo HD also shows 142HD and 1241SD hours of recording capability. From the description you gave, it sounds like we both used the software in the same manner... the software detected the extra space at the end of the copy process and asked if it should run MFSADD for me. I selected yes, and then followed to turn on the supersize.
> 
> My TIVO also appears to function correctly, although the storage numbers are less than others are reporting. I am curious where the difference lies ..


I have 2 THD's and 1 S3, each upgraded internally using either a WD10EACS or a WD10EVCS, and none of them reports 157 HD hours. All were upgraded using the latest version of WinMFS that was available at the time I performed the upgrade. To the best of my recollection, I did not run mfsadd/supersize on any of them. Here are the numbers being reported under v11.0 of the software (under v9.4, they all reported 131 HD hours).

THD #1: WD10EACS, 142 HD hours, 1241 SD hours, upgraded November 2007

S3: WD10EVCS, 143 HD hours, 1244 SD hours, upgraded July 2008

THD #2: WD10EVCS: 142 HD hours, 1241 SD hours, upgraded December 2008


----------



## Mindflux

I apologize for asking this. I've got a TivoHD that I'd like to add an eSATA drive to. The first page mentions the WD "My DVR" is the only "PNP" unit without 'Hacking' the Tivo. But when I go to the Chapter III Part #10 it's discussing hacking the internal hard drive... so I'm a bit confused here.

Can anyone provide me some more info please?


----------



## bkdtv

Mindflux said:


> I apologize for asking this. I've got a TivoHD that I'd like to add an eSATA drive to. The first page mentions the WD "My DVR" is the only "PNP" unit without 'Hacking' the Tivo. But when I go to the Chapter III Part #10 it's discussing hacking the internal hard drive... so I'm a bit confused here.
> 
> Can anyone provide me some more info please?


The TivoHD's "plug and play" eSATA support only works with the Western Digital My DVR Expander, and it only works with when you are using the original TiVo drive.

If you to upgrade the internal drive or use a different external drive (or both), then you have to "hack" using the instructions in section III and IV.


----------



## bkdtv

MapleLeaf said:


> THD #1: WD10EACS, 142 HD hours, 1241 SD hours, upgraded November 2007
> 
> S3: WD10EVCS, 143 HD hours, 1244 SD hours, upgraded July 2008
> 
> THD #2: WD10EVCS: 142 HD hours, 1241 SD hours, upgraded December 2008


As mentioned above, 157 HD hours is what you get with MfsSuperSize and 142 hours is what you get without MfsSuperSize.


----------



## Mindflux

bkdtv said:


> The TivoHD's "plug and play" eSATA support only works with the Western Digital My DVR Expander, and it only works with when you are using the original TiVo drive.
> 
> If you to upgrade the internal drive or use a different external drive (or both), then you have to "hack" using the instructions in section III and IV.


Ok. I wanted to put together my own external. I guess that's a drag I'd have to 'hack' the unit.

Has anyone used the WD My DVR expander enclosure with a larger hard drive by chance? I'm assuming Tivo only wrote compatibility with that device enclosure (and not the particular hard drive, as WD might change it at any given time).


----------



## bkdtv

Mindflux said:


> Ok. I wanted to put together my own external. I guess that's a drag I'd have to 'hack' the unit.
> 
> Has anyone used the WD My DVR expander enclosure with a larger hard drive by chance? I'm assuming Tivo only wrote compatibility with that device enclosure (and not the particular hard drive, as WD might change it at any given time).


From the FAQ:



> *Can I replace the drive in the My DVR Expander with a larger drive and still maintain compatibility with the TivoHD?*
> 
> No.
> 
> The "My DVR Expander" enclosure has nothing to do with TiVo compatibility. The _specific drive_ in that product is identified by the TivoHD software as compatible.
> 
> You cannot replace the drive in the "My DVR Expander" with another drive and maintain compatibility with the TivoHD, because then you would be replacing the one thing that makes it compatible.


If you are going to open your TiVo to use unsupported storage, then you might as well upgrade the internal drive.


----------



## nrken99

When my Series 3 hard drive failed, Tivo sent me a new (refurb) unit. My approved WD expander had worked fine with the old unit, but cannot be activated with the new one. Ive gone through the proper procedure several times, even giving the system over six hours to reformat the WD, all to no avail. Tivo customer service has been unable to help, and now says the expander must be bad. It is out of warranty, and WD customer service seems impossible to get. Does anybody have a suggestion?

(Sorry if I've posted this in the wrong place.)


----------



## MapleLeaf

bkdtv said:


> As mentioned above, 157 HD hours is what you get with MfsSuperSize and 142 hours is what you get without MfsSuperSize.


Cool, thanks. You might want to amend the FAQ slightly to indicate that, as the FAQ didn't make any mention (at least, that I saw) of the SuperSize option and only stated that I should be getting 157 HD hours. Also note the discrepancy with my non-SuperSize S3 unit, which reported 143 HD hours.


----------



## bkdtv

MapleLeaf said:


> Cool, thanks. You might want to amend the FAQ slightly to indicate that, as the FAQ didn't make any mention (at least, that I saw) of the SuperSize option and only stated that I should be getting 157 HD hours. Also note the discrepancy with my non-SuperSize S3 unit, which reported 143 HD hours.


Thanks, I updated the FAQ as per your suggestion.


----------



## GlenH100

jlib said:


> Is that the one with the WD10EACS inside? You can still run Hitachi Feature Tool to check and set the AAM acoustic settings without affecting the contents of the drive. You want them as low as they will go. Just remove the drive and attach it to a SATA port on a PC.


Fantom (Micronet) puts a tamper seal over the case screws, so removing the drive from the case may not be an option. One should be able to run the Feature Tool on the drive while it's in the case. I think the mention on the Feature Tool page stating that it doesn't work with external drives applies to USB drives, not eSATA.

I would test this myself, but I just installed my GreenDrive an hour or so ago and had to use the eSATA to SATA cable from my TiVo HD to connect the drive to my PC and I don't want to tear the TiVo apart again. I'll order up a SATA to eSATA cable so that I can try it later.

BTW, the Fantom GD1000EU (WD10EACS inside) is still on sale at MacMall/PCMall/ClubMac/OnSale (all the same company) for $89.99 after rebate ($129.99 less two $20 rebates). They have been playing around with their UPS shipping offer the past month or so. Today it's free on orders over $99; it was $2.99 the other day when I bought it.

As other posters have mentioned, this drive does not include an eSATA cable. I found one on eBay for about $6 delivered.

--Glen


----------



## Mindflux

GlenH100 said:


> F
> 
> BTW, the Fantom GD1000EU (WD10EACS inside) is still on sale at MacMall/PCMall/ClubMac/OnSale (all the same company) for $89.99 after rebate ($129.99 less two $20 rebates). They have been playing around with their UPS shipping offer the past month or so. Today it's free on orders over $99; it was $2.99 the other day when I bought it.
> 
> As other posters have mentioned, this drive does not include an eSATA cable. I found one on eBay for about $6 delivered.
> 
> --Glen


Thanks. I was looking at a 1TB Green.. that's a pretty nice deal.


----------



## richsadams

Mindflux said:


> Thanks. I was looking at a 1TB Green.. that's a pretty nice deal.


Especially for those of us that paid $260 or more for the same drive a little over a year ago.


----------



## Mindflux

richsadams said:


> Especially for those of us that paid $260 or more for the same drive a little over a year ago.


Quit chasing technology!


----------



## richsadams

Mindflux said:


> Quit chasing technology!


Oh, where's the fun in that?!


----------



## GlenH100

richsadams said:


> Especially for those of us that paid $260 or more for the same drive a little over a year ago.


Not to mention that it comes with an external case. The drive runs quite cool, even without a fan.

--Glen


----------



## Mindflux

GlenH100 said:


> Not to mention that it comes with an external case. The drive runs quite cool, even without a fan.
> 
> --Glen


That drive is one that's known to work in the TiVo with no problems right? I was reading about a few drives that would cause the TiVo to 'GSOD' on startup because the drive wasn't in a ready state when the TiVo wanted it?


----------



## GlenH100

Mindflux said:


> That drive is one that's known to work in the TiVo with no problems right? I was reading about a few drives that would cause the TiVo to 'GSOD' on startup because the drive wasn't in a ready state when the TiVo wanted it?


Some versions of the WD10EACS are reported to have problems when installed in the S3 box. From what I have read in this thread and others is that all versions work when installed in an external enclosure or in the TiVo HD.

The drive in my Fantom GreenDrive GD1000EU is identified by the TiVo as WD10EACS-22D6B0.

I also have a Fantom G-Force GF1000EU attached to my computer. It has the same WDC drive as the GreenDrive model. The only differences I can tell are the pilot LED, which is green on the GD model and blue on the GF, and the silkscreen model name on the case. However, this may not hold for all of these drives, as a previous poster states that Micronet told him that they use drives from several sources in their products.

--Glen


----------



## richsadams

Mindflux said:


> That drive is one that's known to work in the TiVo with no problems right? I was reading about a few drives that would cause the TiVo to 'GSOD' on startup because the drive wasn't in a ready state when the TiVo wanted it?


Glenn is correct, the WD10EACS works as an expansion drive for both TiVo Series3 and TiVo HD. A bare WD10EACS drive will work as an internal hard drive upgrade in a TiVo HD, however it will NOT work as an internal hard drive upgrade in a TiVo Series3 due to a soft reboot problem.


----------



## amarand

Hello all!

First, I've read the FAQ - it's huge, informative and was a good read. I've also browsed through the 70 pages worth of messages, to get a feel for the questions being asked, and the answers being given.

Second, I'm a Linux/UNIX Support Engineer, have upgraded and hacked three or four of the older systems (S1, S2 and S2DT) for myself and others - no complaints yet. I know my way around a Linux Live CD, and am only concerned that I have enough (e)SATA connectors in my system...time will tell.

Details: I have a TiVo HD coming in, obviously I didn't purchase the XL because that's insane. The HD was $250, so not a bad deal, and the eSATA hard drive I picked up (Seagate FreeAgent XTreme ST310005FPA2E3-RK 1TB 7200 RPM Black External Hard Drive - Retail) is reported to run both cool and quiet - but time will tell. It also has a five year warranty (I heard that Seagate is backing the warranty off to three years effective 2009?) which I like. If all of this stuff fails to work, I won't have lost anything, as I intend to bring things together as soon as the system is activated and the software is updated. I read about the hard versus soft switches, did a little digging and I have no idea which it has, but I also picked up a decent UPS with AVR, so that should do the trick for most short-term power issues.

And now the question: Given that all of this stuff is new, fresh out of the box, which of the following is the most recommended? (Assuming that I will not return any of the items, and will end up using the 1TB drive on one of my systems for some purpose if the TiVo-expansion-thing just doesn't work out.)

1) Take the drive out of the Seagate enclosure and immediately copy the contents of the virginal TiVo-drive, using the tools outlined in the FAQ, to the new Seagate bare drive - placing the original drive in a safe place "just in case," and replacing the internal drive with the new 1TB drive.

2) Take the drive out of the Seagate enclosure, wait until the TiVo has initialized, activated, updated and performed a guide download prior to copying the contents of the not-so-virginal TiVo-drive to the Seagate bare drive - placing the original drive in a safe place "just in case," and replacing the internal drive with the new 1TB drive.

3) Perform the drive marrying procedure virginal.

4) Perform the drive marrying post activation.

I guess the two questions boil down to:

1) Should I use the Seagate drive externally or internally? Using it internally seems like a waste of a pretty sweet enclosure, but I'm getting the feeling that maybe this would be more reliable?

2) Does it matter if I do the work before or after the TiVo is set-up?

Whew...long message, hope these questions weren't addressed elsewhere in detail. 

Thanks,

--Amarand

P.S. I love TiVo! <3 

-------------------

On a side note, this happened yesterday when I went to upgrade to HD:

Cable Company: Why would you want to use a Cable Card? You'll lose access to Pay Per View, the guide data and all sorts of other features!

Me: Uh, well, I use TiVo, and it has most of those things already, yet somehow better....

Cable Company: But wouldn't you rather have it all bundled in one unit? I had a Cable Card before and I returned it because it didn't do all the things I wanted it to do.

Me: (*Thinking*: Yeah, a Cable Card is pretty useless by itself...) Well, I've heard good things about Cable Cards when used with the TiVo HD so I'll be sticking with that technology. Plus, it's one less box, right?

Wow...I mean, are they pushing their extra services or what? I had a cable company DVR once (and a satellite DVR too!) and it was the saddest experience in my life. Well, not really. But it was pretty sad.


----------



## moxie1617

bkdtv said:


> From the FAQ:
> 
> If you are going to open your TiVo to use unsupported storage, then you might as well upgrade the internal drive.


I would wait until the firmware updates to the current version and then do as bkdtv recommends.


----------



## bkdtv

amarand said:


> 1) Should I use the Seagate drive externally or internally? Using it internally seems like a waste of a pretty sweet enclosure, but I'm getting the feeling that maybe this would be more reliable?


You do take a risk when you buy an external drive like that, with an unknown drive inside. We've seen with the TiVo Series3 that some drives will not work as internal drive replacements. For whatever reason, they're just not compatible. We've also seen that some external drives will not work reliably, if at all.

I did a forum search on the Seagate FreeAgent XTreme ST310005FPA2E3-RK, and did not get any hits, so you may be the first to try that product (and/or its bare drive) with the TiVo.

More than likely, it will work, as incompatible drives seem to be the exception. But there's always the possibility that you will be be SOL if you remove the drive, find it doesn't work, and then can't return it.



amarand said:


> 2) Does it matter if I do the work before or after the TiVo is set-up?


I would wait until your CableCards are activated -- if you plan to get CableCards soon -- but waiting for software updates isn't necessary, as your box will get the latest software regardless. It can't hurt though.


----------



## moyekj

Forgive me if this has been covered and perhaps I missed it but is it possible to do an internal drive update using a laptop with 1 esata port? I would assume that getting a sata->esata cable would do the trick? Is there a way to connect 2 sata drives to the esata port at once so that I can start from Tivo image of my existing Tivo drive? Thanks in advance.

Reason I ask is I don't have a PC with sata connectors. I know about the usb-sata method covered in FAQ which may be plan B, but if sata-esata works that would seem like a better/faster alternative.


----------



## greg_burns

Out of curiosity, what type of laptop do you have with an eSata port? Generally haven't seen that much at all. (I see a lot of laptops where I work). Mine just has firewire (1394).

I don't believe you can connect two sata drives to a single esata port even with some sort of adapter. But hopefully i will be proven wrong.


----------



## moyekj

greg_burns said:


> Out of curiosity, what type of laptop do you have with an eSata port? Generally haven't seen that much at all. (I see a lot of laptops where I work). Mine just has firewire (1394).
> 
> I don't believe you can connect two sata drives to a single esata port even with some sort of adapter. But hopefully i will be proven wrong.


 I have the HP Pavilion DV7-1020. Has some nice touches such as the esata port, hdmi port, BDROM. Biggest complaint is it came with Vista.


----------



## bareyb

moyekj said:


> Forgive me if this has been covered and perhaps I missed it but is it possible to do an internal drive update using a laptop with 1 esata port? I would assume that getting a sata->esata cable would do the trick? Is there a way to connect 2 sata drives to the esata port at once so that I can start from Tivo image of my existing Tivo drive? Thanks in advance.
> 
> Reason I ask is I don't have a PC with sata connectors. I know about the usb-sata method covered in FAQ which may be plan B, but if sata-esata works that would seem like a better/faster alternative.


Assuming the adapter works, if you just want to copy over the settings and not all your shows, then yes. One SATA port is all you need. You are basically attaching the TiVo drive first and saving a backup copy of the settings to your PC (it puts it in the same folder with WINMFS by default) and then you connect the NEW drive and copy the disc image over to it. Bam. You're done in about 10 minutes. If you want to save your shows too, then you can always MRV them over to another TiVo if you have one. That's what I did.

If you want to do a direct disc to disc copy with only one SATA port, not sure how you'd do that. Maybe you can save the whole drive as a disc image and restore that to the new drive? Not sure about that one.


----------



## moyekj

bareyb said:


> Assuming the adapter works, if you just want to copy over the settings and not all your shows, then yes. One SATA port is all you need. You are basically attaching the TiVo drive first and saving a backup copy of the settings to your PC (it puts it in the same folder with WINMFS by default) and then you connect the NEW drive and copy the disc image over to it. Bam. You're done in about 10 minutes. If you want to save your shows too, then you can always MRV them over to another TiVo if you have one. That's what I did.
> 
> If you want to do a direct disc to disc copy with only one SATA port, not sure how you'd do that. Maybe you can save the whole drive as a disc image and restore that to the new drive? Not sure about that one.


 OK great, thanks. Yes the most important thing is to transfer all settings over which sounds like it's possible once I get a sata-esata cable. Getting shows over too would be gravy. I'm just getting myself prepared because one of my S3s has spontaneously rebooted itself a few times since 11.0 was installed so I figure I'd be proactive and at least copy an image off Tivo drive before/if it fails. (I still need to run diagnostics on the drive to see if the problem lies there).


----------



## richsadams

amarand said:


> I have a TiVo HD coming in, obviously I didn't purchase the XL because that's insane. The HD was $250, so not a bad deal, and the eSATA hard drive I picked up (Seagate FreeAgent XTreme ST310005FPA2E3-RK 1TB 7200 RPM Black External Hard Drive - Retail) <snip>


Welcome to the forum...although a long time lurker it would seem.  I applaud you're willingness to dive in and upgrade your new TiVo HD from the get go. You've already gotten some sound advice and I'll throw my two-cents in, but first I have a couple of questions.

Why after reading all of the material did you decide to go with a Seagate FreeAgent XTreme eSATA drive? I'm a Seagate man from way back and believe that they make some of the best hardware in the market. But their FreeAgent line has a very checkered past when it comes to playing well with TiVo. A recent TiVo update specifically notified users of FreeAgent Pro's that their system may no longer work with one attached. Early on FAP users had mixed to poor results. Although the XTreme is a new line (and as mentioned, untested) I'd rely more on historical evidence and steer clear myself. Then the next question is that if you're considering an internal upgrade, as you should, why would you want to void the five-year warranty of the Seagate external drive by opening the enclosure and/or as bkdtv mentioned, losing the ability to return it? Why not just buy a bare drive (for a good deal less), image it and install it?

That said, the more-or-less common recommendation around these parts has been to simply upgrade the internal drive on TiVo HD's. The wisdom being that whatever you do you'll have to pull the internal drive, either to marry it to an expansion drive or to replace it. Why not simply replace it and remove the additional fail point from the equation? Keeping the miniscule OEM hard drive for anything more than a backup just isn't worth it IMO. If you need more than 1TB, you can always upgrade the internal drive plus add an eSATA drive for 2TB's.

So here's my two cents: When your new TiVo arrives, fire it up, run Guided Setup, let it update to the latest software verison (v11.0) use it for a week or so and be sure all is well. During that time have your cableco install one "M" (multistream) or two "S" (single stream) cable card(s), rerun Guided Setup and again, be sure it's a happy camper. When everything is humming along pull the OEM hard drive, use it to image a new drive and put the original on the shelf. That way if something does go south later you can simply pop the OEM drive back in, have a working TiVo and if need be, return it under warranty. Of course you do NOT want mention to a TiVo CSR that you opened it up as that voids the warranty. Now you have a 1TB TiVo with about 157 hours worth of HD recording space and life is good.

If you want to stick with Seagate, buy a bare drive from their dedicated DVR DB35 hard drive line. The drive's seek acoustics are specifically tuned to be <25 bels or so...as quiet or even quieter than the TiVo OEM drive and you'll save somewhere around $25 to $50 depending on the price paid for an XTreme drive. (DB35's also carry a five-year warranty.) Or you can purchase a Western Digital WD10EVCS drive (also specifically for DVR use) and save even more (found for as low as $120 or so recently). They are working quite well for many forum members. You could also consider a WD10EACS for your TiVo HD and set the AAM level yourself (see the first post). With various deals you can find them for about $90 these days. Again, I'm a Seagate guy, but the WD 1TB drive I have in one of my TiVo's has been flawless for over a year now.

BTW, I'm also a Linux guy from way back too, but I've used WinMFS for several upgrades now and it couldn't have been easier. Who needs code?  Just a thought.

Happy upgrading and enjoy! :up:


----------



## richsadams

moxie1617 said:


> I would wait until the firmware updates to the current version and then do as bkdtv recommends.


Not to nit-pick, but you're referring to a _software_ not firmware update. But then I bet you knew that.


----------



## moxie1617

I hope I did.


----------



## amarand

richsadams said:


> Welcome to the forum...although a long time lurker it would seem.


I've owned TiVo products for many years, and have referred a few people too. It really makes me sad to see people going with the cable DVRs by default (and pressure) when they could have a TiVo. 



richsadams said:


> I applaud you're willingness to dive in and upgrade your new TiVo HD from the get go.


My philosophy is this: if I'm going to mess it up, I'd rather do it early in the game. I bought my TiVo from Newegg, which has a 30-day replaceable return policy. Unless there's a hologram seal (didn't they do away with those ages ago?) that they look for on returns, if it fails, I have 30-days. I'm also really careful, use ESD mats (I have two on my work surface, both sent to a common ground, with wrist straps) as I work on everything from PCs to large servers as a part of my day job. I own an "I Void Warranties" shirt that I typically (albeit accidentally) wear to big box shops when making big purchases...they love that. I also have a nice kit or three of specialized and sundry security bits for taking "challenging" things apart. I used to put Heath Kits together as a kid, and am saddened by mass-produced boards with surface mount components you can't fix yourself with an analog oscilloscope, some solder and an iron. Actually, this soldering experience allowed me to install my own plumbing accessories in the house without paying for a plumber and, knock on wood, not a single leak in seven years. But I digress.... If I'm going to mess it up, I want to NOT lose anything more than, say, an hour worth of set-up and download time as that's virtually free. If the family members lose several months worth of "Quality Programming" (Family Guy, South Park and Chowder to name a few) there would be heck to pay. So unless I plan on keeping the sad OEM drive forever, I'm totally pulling it and placing it in an anti-static bag with a note as to which TiVo it was pulled from (I just looked, I have --FOUR-- such bags in my closet...it's sick really.) just in case I need to help someone restore an older TiVo to its original state for someone. The original TiVo Series 1 is ultimately hackable, they took away a lot of the hacks in S2, yet that's where I stayed for the longest time. I really only ever needed to activate two "hacks" anyway, which should have been enabled in the first place by default.



richsadams said:


> Why after reading all of the material did you decide to go with a Seagate FreeAgent XTreme eSATA drive?


Aaaah, you're assuming a read a single word here prior to making my purchase. In an ideal world, I would have done the research prior to any outlay of cash but, alas, I did not. I decided to go with that drive because I like Seagate, the price was right, I was sucked in by the marketing name - it's XTreme! - but other than that, no actual empirical data was collected or used whatsoever. Well, I read reviews, but those were all folks using it on their PC or Mac - DVR applications (as mentioned probably 100 times in the 70+ pages of this post alone) are totally different. I'm actually glad I read the FAQ and post over the past day because I frankly had only been focusing on the Series 1 and 2 since they both came out, never took the Series 3 seriously (I mean c'mon, $800!?) and the HD has only been a recent development for me television-wise. I now understand that there are acoustic, heat and endurance considerations that are more prevalent with HD model than its predecessors - I didn't consider the fact that HD has a higher resolution video, and would therefore be pushing more data over the same period of time. It's funny, I'll probably get HD cable and TiVo and watch 99% non-HD - but whatever. 



richsadams said:


> I'm a Seagate man from way back and believe that they make some of the best hardware in the market.


It's true, they have a great reputation in general, and that five year warranty was a great benefit. I'm tempted to use the 1TB FreeAgent as a backup drive, or a VMWare image repository - that's a lot of space, for sure. Everything else at my house is protected by RAID1 or RAID5, except for my TiVo but this is definately not mission-critical. My photography? Yeah, that's important. Also my MP3 collection would be terrible to have to replace. But there's always crap on the TV to re-record if I lose a drive for some reason.



richsadams said:


> But their FreeAgent line has a very checkered past when it comes to playing well with TiVo. <SNIP> Why not just buy a bare drive (for a good deal less), image it and install it?


Points noted! In the end, as is said in the FAQ, if you're going to crack open your TiVo to mess around with hacking it to add an external, you should reduce the additional failure point of an external drive and just go with an internal drive. Oh, and by the way, why doesn't TiVo support drive mirroring? How could would it be to have the peace of mind of a mirrored TiVo drive? Some people are putting their television "lives" on a single drive that could fail at any moment. It's sad that the technology is out there, and TiVo's not using it. Plus, two simultaneous writes don't take much longer than a single write.



richsadams said:


> That said, the more-or-less common recommendation around these parts has been to simply upgrade the internal drive on TiVo HD's.


This statement compresses a dozen pages worth of discussion, and quite a few FAQ entries, into a single sentence. 



richsadams said:


> So here's my two cents: When your new TiVo arrives, fire it up, run Guided Setup, let it update to the latest software verison (v11.0) use it for a week or so and be sure all is well. During that time have your cableco install one "M" (multistream) or two "S" (single stream) cable card(s), rerun Guided Setup and again, be sure it's a happy camper. When everything is humming along pull the OEM hard drive, use it to image a new drive and put the original on the shelf. That way if something does go south later you can simply pop the OEM drive back in, have a working TiVo and if need be, return it under warranty. Of course you do NOT want mention to a TiVo CSR that you opened it up as that voids the warranty. Now you have a 1TB TiVo with about 157 hours worth of HD recording space and life is good.


And, again, if this isn't in a FAQ entry, it probably should be. I know some folks aren't going to have the luxury of starting out with an HD and upgrading it day one, but if that's something an end-user is considering, this is probably the best-practice I was looking for. One of the things I didn't understand before reading your reply is how the CableCARDs come into the mix. Now that I've read this last paragraph, I understand why it's important to install the cards after the software update, and take the backup after the CableCARDs are installed. It's surprising how little of my day-job's troubleshooting knowledge I'll apply to my consumer electronics purchases at the house. 



richsadams said:


> If you want to stick with Seagate, buy a bare drive from their dedicated DVR DB35 hard drive line. The drive's seek acoustics are specifically tuned to be <25 bels or so...as quiet or even quieter than the TiVo OEM drive and you'll save somewhere around $25 to $50 depending on the price paid for an XTreme drive. (DB35's also carry a five-year warranty.) Or you can purchase a Western Digital WD10EVCS drive (also specifically for DVR use) and save even more (found for as low as $120 or so recently). They are working quite well for many forum members. You could also consider a WD10EACS for your TiVo HD and set the AAM level yourself (see the first post). With various deals you can find them for about $90 these days. Again, I'm a Seagate guy, but the WD 1TB drive I have in one of my TiVo's has been flawless for over a year now.


It doesn't look like there's a 1TB version of the DB35, but I like the 750GB's five year warranty for sure. I have Western Digital products all over the house, but only in RAID configurations as I don't trust them as single drives. Maybe that's changed over the years? Has their quality improved? Or maybe the specs are just better on the DVR-qualified WD drives? I'm not 100% stuck on Seagate for this application (even though I love their products) for sure. What I really want is the highest-quality, best-value, totally proven, sweet-spot 1TB solution that will be quiet, stable and cool (temperature-wise  ). It's a really challenging decision for sure!



richsadams said:


> BTW, I'm also a Linux guy from way back too, but I've used WinMFS for several upgrades now and it couldn't have been easier. Who needs code?  Just a thought.


Oh, I do like using the tools like WinMFS for sure. They have safety features that dd and other commandline apps simply don't have. There's a 99% chance that I'll use WinMFS for this upgrade - although I've used commandline step-by-step in the past.



richsadams said:


> Happy upgrading and enjoy! :up:


Oh I totally will! It's funny, most of the fun is in the upgrading. Once the TiVo HD is installed, although it looks a little different, it's pretty much just like the S2 TiVo with a ton more space, higher resolution digital output and some other third thing. When you watch as much "quality" animation shows as our family, you start to question the benefit of HD, but I think there will be benefits down the line. Star Wars the Clone Wars is out on HD, and the kids like that - so we'll see. 

Thanks for taking the time!


----------



## richsadams

amarand said:


> Thanks for taking the time!


Glad to give back when I can. There are a lot of great folks here willing to help and ask nothing in return. I just get a little satisfaction when I can help someone avoid the multitude of "TiVo for Dummies" mistakes I've made over the years.

When the snow is approaching six or eight inches deep outside like it is today, I couldn't be happier that we have TiVo with hours and hours (and hours) of HD programs to watch plus YouTube, Amazon or Netflix if all of that doesn't keep us busy.

VMWare Fusion? X on a Mac?!  That's like putting grafitti on a Van gogh! 

BTW, Lois Griffin looks just a little hotter in HD.


----------



## plumeria

GlenH100 said:


> ..snip..
> BTW, the Fantom GD1000EU (WD10EACS inside) is still on sale at MacMall/PCMall/ClubMac/OnSale (all the same company) for $89.99 after rebate ($129.99 less two $20 rebates). They have been playing around with their UPS shipping offer the past month or so. Today it's free on orders over $99; it was $2.99 the other day when I bought it.
> 
> --Glen


FYI - 
Lowest Shipping varies 
Onsale - $4.99
PCMall - $13.82
ClubMac- $4.99
MacMall - "FREE after mail-in rebate up to $40.00 - $14.91 before mail in rebate"

peter


----------



## husky55

Hey, it's snowing here in Ct and the whole east coast. I did not realize OR has a big storm.


----------



## amarand

richsadams said:


> VMWare Fusion? X on a Mac?!  That's like putting grafitti on a Van gogh!


Ha! Well, you can run Fusion on your Mac, VMWare on your PC and Linux boxes - virtualization is pretty sweet. 



richsadams said:


> BTW, Lois Griffin looks just a little hotter in HD.


Could it be possible?


----------



## richsadams

husky55 said:


> Hey, it's snowing here in Ct and the whole east coast. I did not realize OR has a big storm.


Yep...ugly up and down the left coast too. This live traffic cam is about a couple of miles from our house. This web cam is in downtown Portland a few miles north of us. Probably not the kind of thing you guys see, but for us it's supposed to be a 15 year record breaker. Things aren't fit for man nor beast around here right now! T.G. for TiVo!

*EDIT*: Spoke too soon...we lost power for six hours or so today (Sunday). Early a.m. wake-up call with four different UPS units beeping away...so no TiVo for us.  Juice is back on now but more snow and a new ice storm are just coming in. S/b about a foot and a half of snow and ice on the ground by this time tomorrow...and we're only at 500ft. or so...mountain areas are totally covered. One Interstate and many local roads are closed. Storm of the century (well, at least this one) they say. Hopefully the electricity will stay on. Brrrrrrr.

Okay, back to our regular OT programming.


----------



## jlib

amarand said:


> ...Oh, and by the way, why doesn't TiVo support drive mirroring? How could would it be to have the peace of mind of a mirrored TiVo drive? Some people are putting their television "lives" on a single drive that could fail at any moment. It's sad that the technology is out there, and TiVo's not using it. Plus, two simultaneous writes don't take much longer than a single write...


Back before the era of 1TB drives several S3 upgraders used the inexpensive and quiet Thecus N2050 with dual 500GB drives in RAID 0 configuration for some of the first 1TB expansions by using an eSATA to SATA cable and routing it through a vent hole into the Tivo in lieu of the internal drive.

Now, with readily available 1TB drives you could use two in the Thecus in RAID 1 configuration for redundancy. With the TiVo HD the connection is even easier because one can reroute the Tivo's eSATA port to the internal SATA port by just swapping cables on the TiVo mainboard. You would probably still need an eSATA to SATA cable for the upgrade process in the computer, though (unless the PC happened to have an eSATA port).

Edit: Thecus notes that drives bigger than 500G are not recommended. Not sure if they just mean in RAID 0 (capacity limitation) or if it is for thermal considerations with bigger drives but in any case the above suggestion may not work as I proposed. So, nevermind...


----------



## greg_burns

Weaknees started selling a drive mirroring kit for Tivos last month...

http://www.wkblog.com/tivo/2008/11/weaknees-debuts-tivo-and-dvr-backup-systems/


----------



## richsadams

greg_burns said:


> Weaknees started selling a drive mirroring kit for Tivos last month...
> 
> http://www.wkblog.com/tivo/2008/11/weaknees-debuts-tivo-and-dvr-backup-systems/


Nice but spendy!  A good DIY option would cost half that? But for those wanting a turn-key no fuss, no muss setup it looks quite good.


----------



## hoyty

I just wanted to add another recommendation for the WD10EVCS. At first I upgraded my Series 3 whose drive began to fail with a WD Caviar Black 1 TB. That drive worked wonderfully and was an easy swap. The only downside was it is REALLY loud. The series 3 is in our spare bedroom and my fiancé was complaining it was too loud standing in the hallway outside the room. Her complaining spurred me to replace the drive and I got the WD10EVCS. What an amazing difference. I can't hear the drive at all; I hear the gentle whoosh of the fan more than the drive now. I would definitely recommend this drive. It is as good if not better sound wise than the Seagate DB35's I have in my DirecTV Series 2 and HR10-250 which was impressive.


----------



## BrianL-WA

I've followed Spike's instructions (from the FAQ) to use mfslive linux CD to run 'backup' to transfer the recordings from my (failing) original Tivo HD 160GB HDD + attached WD 500GB eSATA drive to a new 1TB HDD and then use WinMFS to expand the rest of the 1TB (and thereby no longer retain the eSATA drve).

_backup -qTao - /dev/sda /dev/sdb | restore -s 128 -r 4 -zi - /dev/sdc​_However, when I start the Tivo HD it tells me that an unknown external device is attached and wants to 'divorce' this drive to continue. I do the thumbs-down 3x and then restart, but each time the Tivo prompts me to do this--the divorce doesnt do anything.

Please help! How do i force a 'divorce' on my tivo so i can begin using the new drive? I've also tried the 'fixdivorce' mfslive command and that didnt do anything. (hopefully with all the original programming).

Thanks,
Brian


----------



## txporter

BrianL-WA said:


> I've followed Spike's instructions (from the FAQ) to use mfslive linux CD to run 'backup' to transfer the recordings from my (failing) original Tivo HD 160GB HDD + attached WD 500GB eSATA drive to a new 1TB HDD and then use WinMFS to expand the rest of the 1TB (and thereby no longer retain the eSATA drve).
> 
> _backup -qTao - /dev/sda /dev/sdb | restore -s 128 -r 4 -zi - /dev/sdc​_However, when I start the Tivo HD it tells me that an unknown external device is attached and wants to 'divorce' this drive to continue. I do the thumbs-down 3x and then restart, but each time the Tivo prompts me to do this--the divorce doesnt do anything.
> 
> Please help! How do i force a 'divorce' on my tivo so i can begin using the new drive? I've also tried the 'fixdivorce' mfslive command and that didnt do anything. (hopefully with all the original programming).
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian


From the MFSLive Guide, it looks like spike wants you to use WinMFS to do a Disk-to-Disk copy to do what you are trying to do. This appears to be for the original Series3 Tivos, but it would expect that it _should _work if you haven't upgraded your TivoHD (which it looks like you haven't).



> Disk to Disk Copy
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Slow way but preserves recordings: (avg 2GB/min)
> 
> Option 3.20 To copy everything from original capacity (250GB) internal drive and eSATA drive to bigger single drive and expand capacity. If you get "Backup target not large enough" error, chances are you will need to use this command. This option works only if your internal drive is never been expanded with restore -x option.
> 
> *This option is built into WinMFS so give it a try*.
> 
> Option 3.21 To copy from expanded internal drive and eSATA drive to new single bigger drive:
> 
> This option if not supported yet.


I have never tried this myself, so I can't offer any help based on experience.

Let us know if you are able to accomplish this. Others have asked to do the same thing. I wasn't aware that it was even supported until you posted this and I looked for myself.

Jason


----------



## richsadams

BrianL-WA said:


> I've followed Spike's instructions (from the FAQ) to use mfslive linux CD to run 'backup' to transfer the recordings from my (failing) original Tivo HD 160GB HDD + attached WD 500GB eSATA drive to a new 1TB HDD and then use WinMFS to expand the rest of the 1TB (and thereby no longer retain the eSATA drve).
> 
> _backup -qTao - /dev/sda /dev/sdb | restore -s 128 -r 4 -zi - /dev/sdc​_However, when I start the Tivo HD it tells me that an unknown external device is attached and wants to 'divorce' this drive to continue. I do the thumbs-down 3x and then restart, but each time the Tivo prompts me to do this--the divorce doesnt do anything.
> 
> Please help! How do i force a 'divorce' on my tivo so i can begin using the new drive? I've also tried the 'fixdivorce' mfslive command and that didnt do anything. (hopefully with all the original programming).
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian


IIRC there are a couple of folks here that were successful so I think it can be done. You might have better luck posting on the MFSLive.org Forum though. Spike drops by here once in a while, but he's very good about answering questions on his own forum. Best of luck and report back when you have time.

BTW, enjoying the snow? We've got about 18" and although it's picture post card like around here, it's getting a little old now.


----------



## b_scott

Hello. I just bought a refurb TivoHD and installed it for my parents. I bought a MyDVR expander. Upon booting the Tivo I'm stuck in an endless loop of "Welcome! Powering Up..."

what's the deal?

Worked fine with my own system.

edit: ok, now it's working, i think. Apparently 11.0 was being installed too and it was conflicting with it. I unplugged the MyDVR and tried to boot the system regularly and it installed 11.0. Now I plugged it back in and it's Almost There.


----------



## jlib

BrianL-WA said:


> ...However, when I start the Tivo HD it tells me that an unknown external device is attached and wants to 'divorce' this drive to continue. I do the thumbs-down 3x and then restart, but each time the Tivo prompts me to do this--the divorce doesn't do anything...


I remember there were some additional undocumented steps required and I was just about to point you to that thread at MFS Live but I see you found it on your own. I hope you can find the answers you need. P.S. - You don't need the obsolete -r 4 setting anymore. Space usage is more efficient without it.


----------



## lowfatalbob

happy holidays everyone

longtime lurker, first time poster

I've had a series tivo for the past year and recently just upgraded to an hdtv. Obviously I want to upgrade the storage on my tivo. I'm not crazy about upgrading the internal drive as I'm not that savvy, technically speaking, so I'm looking to build an esata drive. Its my understanding that the maximum drive i can add is 1.5tb, and I should get a enclosure with a hard power switch and a cooling fan. 

I don't recall reading anyone using a drive bigger than a 1tb, and we just updated the software to 11x, i was wondering if anyone had a 1.5 esata external drive and if there were any issues with it. 

Thx


----------



## TSuellentrop

Got a WD10EACS for Christmas today and had no problems installing it in my TiVoHD via the instructions on this thread. 20-142 hours = Awesome.


----------



## amarand

TSuellentrop said:


> Got a WD10EACS for Christmas today and had no problems installing it in my TiVoHD via the instructions on this thread. 20-142 hours = Awesome.


I am considering performing the exact same operation tomorrow after my CableCARDs are installed. Any advice? What exact procedure did you use? Pretty much follow the FAQ directions?


----------



## richsadams

amarand said:


> I am considering performing the exact same operation tomorrow after my CableCARDs are installed. Any advice? What exact procedure did you use? Pretty much follow the FAQ directions?


Follow the instructions on the first post of this sticky thread and you'll be golden. Even though it started out as an eSATA drive thread, it has everything you need to know about upgrading your TiVo HD; Section III, #30 covers internal upgrades. These are basically the same instructions you'll find on MFSLive.org using winMFS by Spike the creator. (And yes, we're _not_ worthy  )

Happy upgrading!


----------



## 1283

greg_burns said:


> Weaknees started selling a drive mirroring kit for Tivos last month...
> 
> http://www.wkblog.com/tivo/2008/11/weaknees-debuts-tivo-and-dvr-backup-systems/


$250 for the hardware here:
http://www.buy.com/prod/cavalry-2tb...2-0-esata-2-bay-raid/q/loc/101/208381786.html


----------



## amarand

bkdtv said:


> Obtain a torx screwdriver in the T10 size with at least a 2.5" shaft.
> 
> If you don't have a torx T10 screwdriver with a 2.5" shaft, you can purchase the Star Driver T10 Ampro (part #9014713) from Advance Auto Parts for about $4. Another choice is the Craftsman Torx Screwdriver T10 (part #47180) for $7 from Sears or one its subsidiaries, such as KMart, Sears Hardware, or Orchard Supply Hardware.
> 
> Remove the four screws holding the drive down with the same torx T10 screwdriver. After removing the screws, disconnect the SATA cable and power cable from the drive.





Okay, in the process of doing a dry-run (this baby's easier to open than any of my PCs I've built!) and I wanted to let you guys know that, at least on my TiVoHD, the four screws holding the hard drive to the bracket are T15, not T10. If you have a T15, you might want to consider using that so as not to strip the screws. The rest of the screws are, indeed, T10.


----------



## amarand

c3 said:


> 4 TiVoHDs: WD10EACS, WD1000FYPS, WD5000YS, original 160GB


c3: What do you think of the WD10EACS with your TiVo?


----------



## richsadams

amarand said:


> Okay, in the process of doing a dry-run (this baby's easier to open than any of my PCs I've built!) and I wanted to let you guys know that, at least on my TiVoHD, the four screws holding the hard drive to the bracket are T15, not T10. If you have a T15, you might want to consider using that so as not to strip the screws. The rest of the screws are, indeed, T10.


Interesting...the screws in ours were all the same. 



amarand said:


> c3: What do you think of the WD10EACS with your TiVo?


FWIW the WD10EACS performed flawlessly in our TiVo for over a year. I just swapped it out with a WD10EVCS (which is also humming along) and am using the WD10EACS as a backup drive for my wife's Mac Mini now. I've been a Seagate guy for years, but based on three 1TB's that I'm using now and other posts here, the newer WD drives have been impressive. :up:


----------



## JayJayTen

Just installed a Western Digital WD10EACS 1000GB as internal drive replacing existing. Did it all in under 30 minutes and appears to be working like a champ. Purchased the drive at Buy.com for about $129.00 as far as a remember.

Thanks to everyone for your feedback and notes in the attached column for the information and confidence to do this.

Jay


----------



## amarand

richsadams said:


> FWIW the WD10EACS performed flawlessly in our TiVo for over a year. I just swapped it out with a WD10EVCS (which is also humming along) and am using the WD10EACS as a backup drive for my wife's Mac Mini now. I've been a Seagate guy for years, but based on three 1TB's that I'm using now and other posts here, the newer WD drives have been impressive. :up:


Cool, good to know. I just did a quick test of doing a backup/restore and got a GSOD, so I probably missed a step. It's booting back on the original drive for now but, just so you know, it's a Very Bad Idea to take a PS3 away from your kid just to fix the TiVo. I think the crying and screaming scared me more than the GSOD, to be perfectly honest.  I think that crucial step should be in a FAQ somewhere. 

I always worry about TiVo being all sneaky and putting state information into an NVRAM or something, but reverting the drive back to the original worked like a champ.

The cable guy's going to be here any minute with the CableCARDs, and I can't believe I picked this time to test everything out.


----------



## 1283

amarand said:


> c3: What do you think of the WD10EACS with your TiVo?


That's my favorite drive, for both TiVo and PC. My last four drive purchases were all WD10EACS (and its cousin WD1000FYPS).


----------



## FauxPas

amarand said:


> at least on my TiVoHD, the four screws holding the hard drive to the bracket are T15, not T10.


I also needed a T15 for the drive bracket. My TiVo was a refurb from Woot, bought in March 2008.


----------



## dshlk

Got a Tivo HD XL a few weeks ago, which has been working great. Then on Christmas Santa brought a 1 TB WD10EACS. I plan to add the WD as external storage, but wanted to double-check a few questions. Note that the firmware version that is currently installed is the new version 11.0.

First, has anyone successfully added external storage to a HD XL? Also, am I correct to assume that I should follow the directions in the first post for adding external storage for a Tivo HD (Section III),and not try the Tivo S3 process? Also I noted that some are seeing T15 screws and not just T10 screws.

Any suggestions/comments are welcome.


----------



## 1283

All of the TiVos I have seen since Series1 use T15 screws for the drives.


----------



## richsadams

dshlk said:


> Got a Tivo HD XL a few weeks ago, which has been working great. Then on Christmas Santa brought a 1 TB WD10EACS. I plan to add the WD as external storage, but wanted to double-check a few questions. Note that the firmware version that is currently installed is the new version 11.0.
> 
> First, has anyone successfully added external storage to a HD XL? Also, am I correct to assume that I should follow the directions in the first post for adding external storage for a Tivo HD (Section III),and not try the Tivo S3 process? Also I noted that some are seeing T15 screws and not just T10 screws.
> 
> Any suggestions/comments are welcome.


Welcome to the forum and congrats on the new TiVo! :up: I'm not positive, but I think you'd be able to join the TiVo Pioneer Club if you upgrade your TiVo HDXL. You might want to post the same question on the MFSLive.org forum. Spike, the author of the program, is very good about answering. (I did a search there but only found one reference to build 9.4.1 for HDXL's)

Just be sure to back up your original drive per the instructions in case something doesn't work as it should, but I see no reason for any problems.

Happy upgrading and let us know how it goes! :up:


----------



## dshlk

Thanks Rich. I already posted over on MFSLive, and Spike already responded. I hope to tackle this project next week. Got my fingers crossed that everything will go smoothly. I'll let everyone know how it goes.


----------



## richsadams

dshlk said:


> Thanks Rich. I already posted over on MFSLive, and Spike already responded. I hope to tackle this project next week. Got my fingers crossed that everything will go smoothly. I'll let everyone know how it goes.


Nice. :up: I took a look and didn't see the post. When you have time can you post the link here? TIA!


----------



## delgadobb

richsadams said:


> Everyone should be aware that TiVo Series3 and TiVo HD capacity is limited to 2TB and 2.2TB respectively. (IIRC it has to do with the partition size limits and/or the Linux kernel in v9.4) Anything above that would require hardware RAID. In addition AFAIK no one here has had success with a 1.5TB internal upgrade of any sort although I think someone here does have a 1.5TB eSATA connected to a TiVo with an OEM internal drive.
> 
> Plus there are less than stellar reviews (here and here) of Seagate's 1.5TB hard drives to date. 1TB drives (internal and/or external) would still be the order of the day for TiVo.
> 
> That said, for anyone wanting to experiment Newegg has 1.5TB Seagates for $119.99 including shipping right now.
> 
> EDIT: It appears that Seagate is addressing the problems their 1.5TB drives had with a firmware update. More here.


Well, maybe I'm a glutton for punishment, but I'm gonna go for the Seagate 7200.11 ST31500341AS 1.5TB drive. Yeah, there have been firmware issues, I'll make sure it's updated. The drive will almost certainly be overkill for a TIVO HD. That said, I ordered it from NewEgg during their 15% off PayPal promotion for $129 shipped, so it netted out to just over $110. Bad news: First shipment didn't reach me. Good news: They're sending out a replacement, so once I get it I'll try the upgrade.

Amarand & I have something in common - about four or five original TIVO drives packed away. If any of mine died tomorrow, hopefully I'd have a simple drive swap to get them up & running again. For me, it's simply not worth reformatting a 40 or 80 GB drive for use elsewhere. So, I've got a bunch in a box, waiting for a rainy day.

I've used MFSTools, then MFSLive for my previous upgrades. For the TIVO HD, I'll use WinMFS. I think I've got a pretty good handle on it; for those who have done things both ways, any suggestions on how to prepare? It seems like it outta be pretty straightforward.

As far as the Seagate 1.5TB, after I've had the TIVO HD running a few days I'll back up the original drive then try the upgrade. First, I'll go for the full 1.5TB, but I understand it's likely not to work due to partition-sizing issues. Will report here. If that doesn't work, then I'll try a slightly smaller partition - I seem to remember finding a number somewhere between 1.2 & 1.3 TB as the max usable size, but can't locate it now. Assuming I'm willing to 'throw away' some space on the drive, can I attempt something like this? Either that, or has anyone tried creating two partitions on a drive like this to see if Tivo will address it like it has with two separate drives in the past? (i.e. 'Marry' them together as one volume.)

Regardless what happens, worst-case scenario I'll use the Seagate in a desktop computer ... but I'd rather have it in the TIVO for a little extra storage over a 1 TB drive. I want to do the upgrade one time & leave it be for the life of the unit. The noise doesn't matter to me, as this will be in a large room with a DLP TV. If the Seagate doesn't work, I guess my plan 'B' will be a Hitachi - although several here have had good luck with Western Digital, my history with them precludes me going with that option.


----------



## tannett

Thanks for all the instructions and discussion on this board. My original 250GB drive in my series 3 started to go bad, bought a WD10EVCS drive and two additional SATA cables that I was able to hook into my desktop computer, ran the back-up to store an image to the computer and the a copy to pull everything from the old drive. Took about an hour and half to copy everything off the drive going bad (was so glad that it was still able to copy) and now I have 1 TB of internal storage... 

I had put a My DVR Expander on my TivoHD but seeing how easy this was, I might go ahead and update that drive as well!

Thanks again!


----------



## richsadams

delgadobb said:


> Well, maybe I'm a glutton for punishment, but I'm gonna go for the Seagate 7200.11 ST31500341AS 1.5TB drive.


Awesome! It'll be great to have another pioneer among us. :up:



delgadobb said:


> I've used MFSTools, then MFSLive for my previous upgrades. For the TIVO HD, I'll use WinMFS. I think I've got a pretty good handle on it; for those who have done things both ways, any suggestions on how to prepare? It seems like it outta be pretty straightforward.


WinMFS is indeed straight forward...and so much easier and quicker than MFSTools. No prep work needed (other than possibly running a diagnostic on your new drive before installing it). It'll be a cake walk for a veteran like you.



delgadobb said:


> As far as the Seagate 1.5TB, after I've had the TIVO HD running a few days I'll back up the original drive then try the upgrade. First, I'll go for the full 1.5TB, but I understand it's likely not to work due to partition-sizing issues. Will report here. If that doesn't work, then I'll try a slightly smaller partition - I seem to remember finding a number somewhere between 1.2 & 1.3 TB as the max usable size, but can't locate it now.


I read the same thing...it's over on the MFSLive Forum somewhere.

Happy upgrading and keep us posted.


----------



## richsadams

tannett said:


> I had put a My DVR Expander on my TivoHD but seeing how easy this was, I might go ahead and update that drive as well!


Good idea. Do it while everything is fresh in your memory. You can still marry your Expander to the new internal drive for 1.5TB's of space! :up:


----------



## jlib

tannett said:


> ...I had put a My DVR Expander on my TivoHD but seeing how easy this was, I might go ahead and update that drive as well!


Remember to divorce the eSATA drive first.


----------



## jlib

c3 said:


> $250 for the hardware here:
> http://www.buy.com/prod/cavalry-2tb...2-0-esata-2-bay-raid/q/loc/101/208381786.html


The Newegg price is even better than that. But it is not possible to discern the drives used from the description. Cavalry has used WD drives in other enclosures. It would be nice if it were the GP series but there is no mention of "greenness" so it is probably the standard blue label drive. One user mentioned loud fan when used in quiet room. In any case, these Silicon Image processer based units are dirt cheap now and are appearing in many forms. Basically, the RAID enclosure is only costing you $35!


----------



## TheGrossman

Hello all,
I wonder if something like this http://www.startech.com/item/SAT3520U2ER-eSATA-USB-Dual-35in-Silver-SATA-External-Hard-Drive-Enclosure-w-RAID.aspx would work? You can get it for under $90 and with another hard drive, preferably the same as your original drive, you should be able to have a RAID 1 configuration to protect all of your original shows, etc. I would assume that this is very similar to the weaknees item listed above, only you could use whatever size drives that you want to. Does anybody know how to use an ESATA drive (or enclosure) in place of the original SATA drive?
Thanks,
Jeff


----------



## wendysimon

I have a brand new tivohd that is still in the box. What is the order to do things in? I do want to upgrade the hd but am not sure how. I would rather do internal so I dont have to worry about a kid unplugging the cable and losing all our saved shows. I am looking at getting the WD10EACS since that is what seems to be recommended. Is it hard for a "mom" to do this upgrade?

So what order do I do things in? I need to have comcast get me the cable cards. What cards should I ask for? M or something?

I am going to get a lifetime sub on it.

So do I upgrade my drive first, comcast first, plug in the unit and get my subscription on it first? I want to do it in the right order as to cause the least amount of stress. I will be doing this with 3 kids 6 and under around.

Thanks for any help.
Wendy


----------



## ThAbtO

wendysimon said:


> I have a brand new tivohd that is still in the box. What is the order to do things in? I do want to upgrade the hd but am not sure how. I would rather do internal so I dont have to worry about a kid unplugging the cable and losing all our saved shows. I am looking at getting the WD10EACS since that is what seems to be recommended. Is it hard for a "mom" to do this upgrade?
> 
> So what order do I do things in? I need to have comcast get me the cable cards. What cards should I ask for? M or something?
> 
> I am going to get a lifetime sub on it.
> 
> So do I upgrade my drive first, comcast first, plug in the unit and get my subscription on it first? I want to do it in the right order as to cause the least amount of stress. I will be doing this with 3 kids 6 and under around.
> 
> Thanks for any help.
> Wendy


Plug in and setup with over air, and/or plain analog cable, wait til updates to current software v11, then the rest.


----------



## Scopeman

FYI -

Fantom 1TB eSATA external drive (no cable) now only $90 at MacMall. Good with Tivo S3 units that can use unapproved drives.

http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop...+Hard+Drive-External+Hard+Drives&dpno=7532251


----------



## bkdtv

wendysimon said:


> I have a brand new tivohd that is still in the box. What is the order to do things in? I do want to upgrade the hd but am not sure how. I would rather do internal so I dont have to worry about a kid unplugging the cable and losing all our saved shows. I am looking at getting the WD10EACS since that is what seems to be recommended. Is it hard for a "mom" to do this upgrade?
> 
> So do I upgrade my drive first, comcast first, plug in the unit and get my subscription on it first? I want to do it in the right order as to cause the least amount of stress. I will be doing this with 3 kids 6 and under around.


If you don't mind spending the extra $20, I would opt for the newer WD10EVCS instead. It costs $123 shipped after this discount coupon. TiVo uses a variant of this drive with less cache (WD10EVVS) in their new TivoHD XL.

If you've already ordered the WD10EACS, that's still a fine choice for the TivoHD.



wendysimon said:


> So what order do I do things in? I need to have comcast get me the cable cards. What cards should I ask for? M or something?
> 
> I am going to get a lifetime sub on it.


Get your subscription first, followed soon thereafter by Comcast CableCards.

_A few months ago, I would have suggested OTA or cable first, but the new 11.x software doesn't seem to like TiVos without subscriptions. I would expect TiVo to address that with a software update soon, but for now, it's best to activate service before you get the 11.x software._

I would wait a week or two to make sure everything is working as it should before you do the drive upgrade. The instructions are at the bottom of the first post. If you have a Windows PC, and have opened your computer case before, then it should be very easy. If you are not comfortable with opening your computer, then it is still fairly easy, but you will probably need a USB->SATA adapter.

If you have a Mac, you'll need to follow a different set of instructions on MFSLive.org. I haven't added that information to the FAQ yet. If you need help using a Mac, let us know.


----------



## Mindflux

bkdtv said:


> If you don't mind spending the extra $20, I would opt for the newer WD10EVCS instead. It costs $123 shipped after this discount coupon. TiVo uses a variant of this drive with less cache (WD10EVVS) in their new TivoHD XL.


Don't forget any probable percentage saved from fatwallet or live.com cashback! This is likely a couple of percent, and while not a large sum of money it's also not something to just skip over.


----------



## bkdtv

Mindflux said:


> Don't forget any probable percentage saved from fatwallet or live.com cashback! This is likely a couple of percent, and while not a large sum of money it's also not something to just skip over.


Is that live.com discount still going? At one point, didn't they offer 20% cashback or something like that?


----------



## Mindflux

bkdtv said:


> Is that live.com discount still going? At one point, didn't they offer 20% cashback or something like that?


Well for buy.com it's 1-5% (probably depends on what you buy). It's not a stack of cash, but it's still money in the bank when you add it all together.

By the way do you have a link to the mac instructions? I looked around but couldn't find anything?

Best bet would be to use Parallels or VMWare Fusion to run XP (or Bootcamp) and just use WinMFS anyway.


----------



## bkdtv

Mindflux said:


> By the way do you have a link to the mac instructions? I looked around but couldn't find anything?


For a Mac without Windows, backup and upgrade is more complicated before there's no program like WinMFS where you can simply click "Backup" or "Restore."

For the x86 Macs without Windows, you need to connect the original TiVo drive and new replacement drive (internally via SATA or externally with a USB adapter) and then boot from the MFSLive Linux Boot CD. You'll get a command prompt. From there, you need the type in the appropriate commands. The MFSLive site will generate the commands for you; you type those in.


----------



## richsadams

wendysimon said:


> I have a brand new tivohd that is still in the box. What is the order to do things in?


Hi Wendy and welcome. To get started just read the instructions that come with TiVo, they are very good. In the meantime, my two cents:

1. Call Comcast and set up an appointment. You'll need one "M" (multi-stream - best) cable card or two "S" (single stream) cable cards. Ask them to have the tech bring extra cable cards just in case. Clear instructions for the cable guy are included with TiVo as well as here on their web site.
2. As mentioned, the included instructions are very good, but if you want a head start, read this information.
3. Get TiVo set up - connect it to your TV, broadband or phone, etc. 
4. Activate TiVo. (you can do this on line here). Within 24 hours or so your TiVo will update to the latest software. After it downloads it will install it at 2 a.m. your time but there's no need to wait, go ahead and get it set up.
5. Run Guided Setup if you currently have cable (just connect the coax cable to TiVo. You won't get all of the channels, but you will get many.)
6. Once the cable cards are installed re-run Guided setup to get all of your channels. 
7. Then you can use the TiVo drive to image a new drive using your PC and winMFS. Follow the directions on the first post of this thread or on the winMFS/MFSLive web site.

My advice is to let it run for a couple of weeks to ensure that everything is working properly then go ahead and upgrade the hard drive. Be aware that opening TiVo voids the warranty and TiVo customer support is not generally supportive of upgraded TiVo's. However it's mostly a "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

The WD10EACS or (even better) the WD10EVCS will work fine in your TiVo HD. Put the original hard drive on the shelf as a backup. If something happens you can easily put it back in and be up and running or if you need to return TiVo for a warranty replacement (just don't mention that you did any work on it).

Even though it started out as an eSATA drive thread, the first post has everything you need to know about upgrading your TiVo HD including other recommended hard drives and Section III, #30 covers internal upgrades.



wendysimon said:


> I will be doing this with 3 kids 6 and under around.


You are a trooper and have our sympathies. 

Happy upgrading!


----------



## richsadams

bkdtv said:


> Is that live.com discount still going? At one point, didn't they offer 20% cashback or something like that?


I actually got 30% cash back on a Mac Mini I bought for my wife through an authorized Apple dealer on e-bay. Thanks Mr. Gates!  (They've scaled it back quite a bit now though.)


----------



## spellow

Scopeman said:


> FYI -
> 
> Fantom 1TB eSATA external drive (no cable) now only $90 at MacMall. Good with Tivo S3 units that can use unapproved drives.
> 
> http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop...+Hard+Drive-External+Hard+Drives&dpno=7532251


Has anybody used this, I'm considering it for my Tivo Series 3.


----------



## Mindflux

spellow said:


> Has anybody used this, I'm considering it for my Tivo Series 3.


It's just a WD10EACS drive in there. lots of folks have used it on a TivoHD, but supposedly on an S3 box it can be problematic.


----------



## richsadams

Mindflux said:


> It's just a WD10EACS drive in there. lots of folks have used it on a TivoHD, but supposedly on an S3 box it can be problematic.


Well...yes and no...sort of. The Fantom drive in question is an eSATA drive. It will work with Series3's as an expansion drive via plug and play right out of the box. TiVo HD users would need to marry the drive to the internal hard drive for it to work as an eSATA drive using winMFS (and would be better off just buying a bare drive and upgrading the internal drive anyway). There are a few folks here that are successfully using the Fantom as an eSATA drive.

The drive inside of the Fantom enclosure is reportedly a WD10EACS (the full model suffix is unknown AFAIK). That particular model of the bare drive will work as an internal upgrade for TiVo HD's, but not Series3's due to a soft reboot issue.

Even if the price is right, removing the drive from the Fantom enclosure to use it as an internal hard drive upgrade would void the warranty and wouldn't make sense. A bare drive can be purchased for about the same price. Hope that clarifies things a bit.


----------



## spellow

richsadams said:


> Well...yes and no...sort of. The Fantom drive in question is an eSATA drive. It will work with Series3's as an expansion drive via plug and play right out of the box. TiVo HD users would need to marry the drive to the internal hard drive for it to work as an eSATA drive using winMFS (and would be better off just buying a bare drive and upgrading the internal drive anyway). There are a few folks here that are successfully using the Fantom as an eSATA drive.
> 
> The drive inside of the Fantom enclosure is reportedly a WD10EACS (the full model suffix is unknown AFAIK). That particular model of the bare drive will work as an internal upgrade for TiVo HD's, but not Series3's due to a soft reboot issue.
> 
> Even if the price is right, removing the drive from the Fantom enclosure to use it as an internal hard drive upgrade would void the warranty and wouldn't make sense. A bare drive can be purchased for about the same price. Hope that clarifies things a bit.


I'm just looking for the best plug and play ESATA solution for my T3...1TB is more than enough space for me.

So I'm just looking to make sure this is a good solution or find out if there is a better external ESATA drive than this one...


----------



## Mindflux

richsadams said:


> Even if the price is right, removing the drive from the Fantom enclosure to use it as an internal hard drive upgrade would void the warranty and wouldn't make sense. A bare drive can be purchased for about the same price. Hope that clarifies things a bit.


I'd like to see a 'bare' WD10EACS for 89 bucks.  The chances of the drive in this failing is about 'as good as any'. Voiding the warranty on it by removing it from the chassis isn't a big deal, IMHO. If it did fail within a year or even two, by then 1TB drives will probably be in the 60 dollar price point. They're not far from that as it is.


----------



## amarand

richsadams said:


> 6. Once the cable cards are installed re-run Guided setup to get all of your channels.
> 7. Then you can use the TiVo drive to image a new drive using your PC and winMFS. Follow the directions on the first post of this thread or on the winMFS/MFSLive web site.
> 
> My advice is to let it run for a couple of weeks to ensure that everything is working properly then go ahead and upgrade the hard drive.


Finally got my CableCARDs working (two singles...the multicard never worked properly...working with TiVo "Level 2" over the next week or two to see if I can't resolve that, the cable guy was nice enough to leave the multi behind for me to test with) with the TiVo HD, which is nice. Re-ran Guided Setup as mentioned, and it's chugging along. What is THE benchmark thing that I'm looking for on the TiVo to see if it's done with its processing? I want to start the upgrade as soon as possible, as I'm working from home today, but I don't want to preempt the processing that it does. I'm at that point where I'm 30 to 45 minutes after it says "You have one week worth of data." Are we talking an hour or two, or...? But more importantly, it'll be nice to know where to look to see if it's working on it, or if it's done.

Thanks again!


----------



## Fofer

richsadams said:


> Well...yes and no...sort of. The Fantom drive in question is an eSATA drive. It will work with Series3's as an expansion drive via plug and play right out of the box. TiVo HD users would need to marry the drive to the internal hard drive for it to work as an eSATA drive using winMFS (and would be better off just buying a bare drive and upgrading the internal drive anyway). There are a few folks here that are successfully using the Fantom as an eSATA drive.
> 
> The drive inside of the Fantom enclosure is reportedly a WD10EACS (the full model suffix is unknown AFAIK). That particular model of the bare drive will work as an internal upgrade for TiVo HD's, but not Series3's due to a soft reboot issue.
> 
> Even if the price is right, removing the drive from the Fantom enclosure to use it as an internal hard drive upgrade would void the warranty and wouldn't make sense. A bare drive can be purchased for about the same price. Hope that clarifies things a bit.


Cool, thanks for the info. The $90 price sure is attractive. I'm currently running a Series 3 with an internally upgraded drive (750 GB.) This drive will let me add on more storage with MFSADD. I plan to do this in the next few weeks and will let you know how it goes!


----------



## richsadams

Fofer said:


> Cool, thanks for the info. The $90 price sure is attractive. I'm currently running a Series 3 with an internally upgraded drive (750 GB.) This drive will let me add on more storage with MFSADD. I plan to do this in the next few weeks and will let you know how it goes!


That 'otta give you enough room to breath for a while!


----------



## falc122727

What a pleasure using winmfs. I remember how time consuming and confusing it was the first time I added 2 drives to my Series 1s. I upgraded my TiVoHD with a WD10EACS in about 15 minutes, and now show 157 hrs of HD. If only I could hack this sucker without a Prom mod.

TiVo let me transfer the lifetime from a Series 1 for free, so factoring in the cost of the hardrive, I now have a TiVoHD XL with lifetime service for less than $300. Sweet deal!

Thanks for all the helpful posts on this site and thanks to Spike for winmfs.


----------



## dmbpj

I just got a Tivo HD for Xmas and I have the cable guy coming out to put in my M-Card this Friday and I was wondering if it is best for me to hook up the tivo and update all the software before he gets here?

Thanks.


----------



## Mindflux

dmbpj said:


> I just got a Tivo HD for Xmas and I have the cable guy coming out to put in my M-Card this Friday and I was wondering if it is best for me to hook up the tivo and update all the software before he gets here?
> 
> Thanks.


Get it as up to date as you possibly can. Around here the installers are required to wait until you get the cable channels you are supposed to get. They've mentioned to me in the past that if they get a user with a TiVo that has done no pre-cable-card setup/config that they are charging them a fee to get it all set up since it takes considerably longer.


----------



## ThAbtO

dmbpj said:


> I just got a Tivo HD for Xmas and I have the cable guy coming out to put in my M-Card this Friday and I was wondering if it is best for me to hook up the tivo and update all the software before he gets here?
> 
> Thanks.


Hook it up, and connect to tivo service for about 5 times to get up to v11 update; also, do guided setup with your current cable and/or antenna. After cable cards installed run guided setup again.

v9.x and later work better on cable cards.


----------



## dmbpj

ThAbtO said:


> Hook it up, and connect to tivo service for about 5 times to get up to v11 update; also, do guided setup with your current cable and/or antenna. After cable cards installed run guided setup again.
> 
> v9.x and later work better on cable cards.





Mindflux said:


> Get it as up to date as you possibly can. Around here the installers are required to wait until you get the cable channels you are supposed to get. They've mentioned to me in the past that if they get a user with a TiVo that has done no pre-cable-card setup/config that they are charging them a fee to get it all set up since it takes considerably longer.


Thanks for your answers


----------



## richsadams

Mindflux said:


> I'd like to see a 'bare' WD10EACS for 89 bucks.  The chances of the drive in this failing is about 'as good as any'. Voiding the warranty on it by removing it from the chassis isn't a big deal, IMHO. If it did fail within a year or even two, by then 1TB drives will probably be in the 60 dollar price point. They're not far from that as it is.


Well...let's do the math...

Fantom External Hard Drive $129.99. Price reduced to $89.99 after receipt of $40 mail-in rebate check.

Bare WD10EACS $99.99 w/free shipping. (No mail-in rebate required.)

Break open the Fantom = No warranty day one.

Bare drive = Full 3 year replacement warranty (prorated thereafter).​
Peace of mind? Priceless. (Well, okay, $10 immediately as opposed to spending $30 more and waiting for a rebate check to show up three months later.)


----------



## Fofer

What's the math if you plan to use the Fantom externally and therefore, don't need to break open the case?


----------



## richsadams

Fofer said:


> What's the math if you plan to use the Fantom externally and therefore, don't need to break open the case?


See above...$129.99, send in the $40 rebate form and hope the check shows up. As long as it does, it's a good deal. :up:

BTW, I've purchased from MacMall a number of times and they've always given great service. (Never had to send in for a rebate though, but I see no reason that there would be a problem.)


----------



## Mindflux

richsadams said:


> Well...let's do the math...
> 
> Fantom External Hard Drive $129.99. Price reduced to $89.99 after receipt of $40 mail-in rebate check.
> 
> Bare WD10EACS $99.99 w/free shipping. (No mail-in rebate required.)
> 
> Break open the Fantom = No warranty day one.
> 
> Bare drive = Full 3 year replacement warranty (prorated thereafter).​
> Peace of mind? Priceless. (Well, okay, $10 immediately as opposed to spending $30 more and waiting for a rebate check to show up three months later.)


Ok lets not bother to cover what an enclosure might cost if you wanted to use it after removing the WD10EACS. I could still easily stick a different drive in it and use it on a PC. I don't think it's a "break it open" situation, I'm sure it comes apart with a twist of a few screws.


----------



## richsadams

Mindflux said:


> Ok lets not bother to cover what an enclosure might cost if you wanted to use it after removing the WD10EACS. I could still easily stick a different drive in it and use it on a PC. I don't think it's a "break it open" situation, I'm sure it comes apart with a twist of a few screws.


All Fantom enclosures have a holographic seal. If your time is worth <$10, and you don't mind paying an extra $30 until the rebate check shows up _and_ need a bare drive without a warranty...go for it! 'Nuff said.


----------



## ChickenCheese

I have gift cards to Best Buy and Amazon. Is there a good hard drive on there to upgrade a Series 3? I've been looking through the thread and I'm overwhelmed by all the model numbers. 

Edit to add: Or maybe I should just go with the Fantom external drive mentioned above. That way I won't have to open my TiVo.


----------



## dmbpj

ChickenCheese said:


> I have gift cards to Best Buy and Amazon. Is there a good hard drive on there to upgrade a Series 3? I've been looking through the thread and I'm overwhelmed by all the model numbers.
> 
> Edit to add: Or maybe I should just go with the Fantom external drive mentioned above. That way I won't have to open my TiVo.


The Western Digital AV-GP green drives seem to work well and come in 500GB, 750GB, and 1TB.

I just bought the 750GB for my Tivo HD.

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=388


----------



## richsadams

dmbpj said:


> The Western Digital AV-GP green drives seem to work well and come in 500GB, 750GB, and 1TB.
> 
> I just bought the 750GB for my Tivo HD.
> 
> http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=388


The link to the drive, a Western Digital AV/GP WD10EVCS is fine for both Series3's and TiVo HD's. However the more common Western Digital GP/"green" drives found in the wild (mostly at B&M stores) are the WD10EACS GP series.

Just to clarify, the Western Digital WD10*EA*CS will NOT work as an internal upgrade for Series3's due to a soft reboot problem. It does work with TiVo HD's.

The recommended WD10*EV*CS is a dedicated DVR drive and will work as an internal upgrade for Series3's and TiVo HD's.

Unfortunately Best Buy doesn't sell either drive. It looks like the best price for the WD10EVCS at the moment is at buy.com.

Other recommended drives (Hitachi, etc.) can be found on the first post of this thread...important reading for anyone wanting to add an eSATA drive or upgrade an internal drive on their TiVo.


----------



## dmbpj

richsadams said:


> The link to the drive, a Western Digital AV/GP WD10EVCS is fine for both Series3's and TiVo HD's. However the more common Western Digital GP/"green" drives found in the wild (mostly at B&M stores) are the WD10EACS GP series.
> 
> Just to clarify, the Western Digital WD10*EA*CS will NOT work as an internal upgrade for Series3's due to a soft reboot problem. It does work with TiVo HD's.
> 
> The recommended WD10*EV*CS is a dedicated DVR drive and will work as an internal upgrade for Series3's and TiVo HD's.
> 
> Unfortunately Best Buy doesn't sell either drive. It looks like the best price for the WD10EVCS at the moment is at buy.com.
> 
> Other recommended drives (Hitachi, etc.) can be found on the first post of this thread...important reading for anyone wanting to add an eSATA drive or upgrade an internal drive on their TiVo.


Thanks for clarifying


----------



## talkingtiki

Hey guys. Just completed a Series 3 internal upgrade using a WD10EVCS. It took about an hour from start to finish using the guide here and WinMFS and could not have been easier.

Thanks for the thread. I encourage everyone to do this.


----------



## jlib

TheGrossman said:


> Hello all, I wonder if something like this http://www.startech.com/item/SAT3520U2ER-eSATA-USB-Dual-35in-Silver-SATA-External-Hard-Drive-Enclosure-w-RAID.aspx would work? You can get it for under $90 and with another hard drive, preferably the same as your original drive, you should be able to have a RAID 1 configuration to protect all of your original shows, etc. I would assume that this is very similar to the weaknees item listed above, only you could use whatever size drives that you want to. Does anybody know how to use an ESATA drive (or enclosure) in place of the original SATA drive?


All of those hardware based (no drivers required) RAIDs should work but you would be a pioneer with that particular one. Note that that is not a particularly attractive price (similar items are ~$60) and I get a sense it has a really loud fan. The kind of drives you are most likely to put in it the (WD GreenPower series) are not particularly hot. Since it has a fan switch it should be easy to add a fan speed controller to adjust the noise appropriately for the cooling needed (you always wanted an excuse to get a passive infrared thermometer, right?)

If you have a TiVo HD the connection is trivial because the eSATA port on the TiVo can be easily rerouted to the internal drive's SATA port on the mainboard. The RAID 1 then appears as the internal drive to the TiVO. If you have a TiVo S3 ping me and I will point you to an old thread that shows how to do the connection.


----------



## richsadams

talkingtiki said:


> Hey guys. Just completed a Series 3 internal upgrade using a WD10EVCS. It took about an hour from start to finish using the guide here and WinMFS and could not have been easier.
> 
> Thanks for the thread. I encourage everyone to do this.


Congrats! :up:


----------



## amarand

Well, it looks like the WD10EACS is working just fine in the TiVo at the moment. No GSOD or anything, and it appears that I have a huge amount of storage space.










Thanks everyone! Here's hoping for a Happy TiVo HD New Year.


----------



## richsadams

amarand said:


> Well, it looks like the WD10EACS is working just fine in the TiVo at the moment. No GSOD or anything, and it appears that I have a huge amount of storage space.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks everyone! Here's hoping for a Happy TiVo HD New Year.


Glad to hear that your TiVo HD is feeling fat and happy! Nice work. Happy New Year!


----------



## chanster

I have two TIVO HD's. One was upgraded with 1 TB, the other has a stock hard drive. The stock one is on a year pre-paid service. I may not continue with the service after this year.

My question is this: If I upgrade the stock and transfer a bunch of movies on there from my main TIVO, will I still be able to access the movies after the TIVO service is stopped - i.e. could I use the TIVO box as a movie only box?

Thanks


----------



## richsadams

chanster said:


> I have two TIVO HD's. One was upgraded with 1 TB, the other has a stock hard drive. The stock one is on a year pre-paid service. I may not continue with the service after this year.
> 
> My question is this: If I upgrade the stock and transfer a bunch of movies on there from my main TIVO, will I still be able to access the movies after the TIVO service is stopped - i.e. could I use the TIVO box as a movie only box?
> 
> Thanks


Yes.


----------



## chales007

I have a Tivo HD machine. It seems to me that to expand the HD of this type of box I need to marry the current drive in my tivo with the new drive that I have purchased.

Otherwise I could go with the dvr expander that Tivo recommends.

Has anyone looked into how the Tivo recognizes the recommended DVR Expander? 

To me the solution is to format the drive and make it look like the supported DVR expander so you can just plug any drive into the back of your Tivo HD.

any thoughts?


----------



## richsadams

chales007 said:


> Has anyone looked into how the Tivo recognizes the recommended DVR Expander?
> 
> To me the solution is to format the drive and make it look like the supported DVR expander so you can just plug any drive into the back of your Tivo HD.
> 
> any thoughts?


Nice thought and were it only that simple many of us would have done that over a year ago. A full reading of the first post on this thread is probably in order.

That said and to answer your question TiVo recognizes eSATA drives by the model number. Only the "approved" WD My DVR Expander (by hard drive model number) is recognized by TiVo HD's for plug and play installs based on proprietary software. The same is not true for TiVo Series3's.

You are correct, to add any other expansion drive to the TiVo HD the external drive has to be "married" to the internal drive. The common recommendation is to simply upgrade the miniscule OEM drive since it has to be pulled anyway and is not worth saving except as a backup.


----------



## DeepUnder

amarand said:


> Well, it looks like the WD10EACS is working just fine in the TiVo at the moment. No GSOD or anything, and it appears that I have a huge amount of storage space.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks everyone! Here's hoping for a Happy TiVo HD New Year.


hello, new here

i have updated my Aussie Version Tivo HD to 1TB using a WD10EVCS harddrive.

All i get is 142 Hrs HD content and 384 hrs of SD content. How did you get a 1000+ hours of SD content.

I used WinMfs 9.3e

Thanks Great forum


----------



## pdxsam

richsadams said:


> Well...let's do the math...
> 
> Fantom External Hard Drive $129.99. Price reduced to $89.99 after receipt of $40 mail-in rebate check.
> 
> Bare WD10EACS $99.99 w/free shipping. (No mail-in rebate required.)
> 
> Break open the Fantom = No warranty day one.
> 
> Bare drive = Full 3 year replacement warranty (prorated thereafter).​
> Peace of mind? Priceless. (Well, okay, $10 immediately as opposed to spending $30 more and waiting for a rebate check to show up three months later.)


Also add in that if you remove the drive from the enclosure you lose the drive warranty also. You can't go to the website and get an RMA. When you put in the serial number of the drive it will come back to be an OEM drive and you'll be sent back to the manufacturer of the enclosure.


----------



## richsadams

pdxsam said:


> Also add in that if you remove the drive from the enclosure you lose the drive warranty also. You can't go to the website and get an RMA. When you put in the serial number of the drive it will come back to be an OEM drive and you'll be sent back to the manufacturer of the enclosure.


That's what I meant...but thanks for the clarification. :up:


----------



## 1283

richsadams said:


> Break open the Fantom = No warranty day one.


Do we know this for sure? Drives inside Cavalry units have full 3-year warranty from WD (based on my past purchases, not lately).


----------



## richsadams

c3 said:


> Do we know this for sure? Drives inside Cavalry units have full 3-year warranty from WD (based on my past purchases, not lately).


I had this experience once and Fantom drives have a hologram seal on their case. It seems one would be hard pressed to make a claim. For a few bucks I've no idea why anyone would want to risk it, but if that's not a concern, then...


----------



## rhitee05

Has anyone tried using one of the newer Caviar Green WD10EADS drives as an internal upgrade? I'm planning to put a 1TB drive inside my TivoHD and was looking at the newer drive. The review I read here shows slightly better performance (not that it really matters for TiVo) and lower power consumption. The new drive is going for $120 at newegg, about $10 more than the older model.


----------



## 1283

The latest version of WD10EACS has 3 platters, same as WD10EADS, so power consumption should be the same, unless you get the older 4-platter WD10EACS. The difference is 16MB versus 32MB cache.


----------



## pdxsam

richsadams said:


> That's what I meant...but thanks for the clarification. :up:


Sorry I didn't quite get what you said


----------



## rdodolak

My WD10EVCS drive arrived today and I just finished upgrading a TiVo HD. The WinMFS process went smooth however I did initially encounter an hiccup with the Hitachi Feature Tool.

The tool initially wouldn't recognize any of my HDs and it turned out I needed to turn off my Intel RAID controller before it would recognize them. I tried performing a search to see if the Western Digital WD10EVCS came from the factory with AAM enabled, so that I could skip this step, but turned up with no relevant results. Turns out the drive is already set at the factory with AAM enabled and a value of 128.

The upgraded TiVo is working great and the first thing I noticed is that the menu responses in TiVo Central are much faster! :up: However, I had to execute the "Connect to Tivo service now" function again before I could reaccess the Video on Demand section.


----------



## jlib

Yes, the WD10EVCS is intended for use as a DVR drive so they already detune it at the factory. Only the regular retail desktop computer type drives need to be reset.


----------



## dxcoded

Hi I don't post here often but I am wanting to upgrade my tivo hd with a 1tb wd drive. My question is this....

Can I buy 2 antec mx-1 and use these to upgrade and connect to windows xp. I am a mac user and have access to a windows xp laptop and I want to make sure that I can use this before I order these enclosures. 

Second question is it really this easy to use winmfs to do upgrade with limited knowledge of windows xp?

thanks in advance for answers

eric


----------



## txporter

dxcoded said:


> Hi I don't post here often but I am wanting to upgrade my tivo hd with a 1tb wd drive. My question is this....
> 
> Can I buy 2 antec mx-1 and use these to upgrade and connect to windows xp. I am a mac user and have access to a windows xp laptop and I want to make sure that I can use this before I order these enclosures.
> 
> Second question is it really this easy to use winmfs to do upgrade with limited knowledge of windows xp?
> 
> thanks in advance for answers
> 
> eric


Yes, the Antec MX-1 will work fine. Did you read the FAQ at the beginning of this thread? If you have a stock tivohd, you should consider using the 1TB drive to upgrade the internal drive. You will have to pull it apart anyhow if you intend to add any esata drive other than the official expander. Look through the FAQ at the head of this thread and see if there are any questions that you have left unanswered.

Jason


----------



## richsadams

dxcoded said:


> Hi I don't post here often but I am wanting to upgrade my tivo hd with a 1tb wd drive. My question is this....
> 
> Can I buy 2 antec mx-1 and use these to upgrade and connect to windows xp. I am a mac user and have access to a windows xp laptop and I want to make sure that I can use this before I order these enclosures.
> 
> Second question is it really this easy to use winmfs to do upgrade with limited knowledge of windows xp?
> 
> thanks in advance for answers
> 
> eric


The first post on this sticky thread has everything you need to know about upgrading your TiVo HD. (Section III, #30 covers internal upgrades.)

Are you you interested in upgrading the internal hard drive in your TiVo HD? As mentioned, that's the way to go rather than adding an external drive. If you don't need to save your existing recordings and you're using winMFS you don't need to connect both drives at the same time. You'd connect your OEM drive to the PC to copy the OS image then you would connect the new drive to the PC, copy the image to it and do a couple of more steps to finish the upgrade. That will save all of your cable card settings, season passes, etc., just not any existing recordings. Put the new drive back in TiVo and the OEM hard drive on the shelf as a backup and you're all done.

Yes, you could use an Antec MX-1 case, but you don't need to. You could simply use a USB/SATA Adapter like this one and save some money. Unless of course you need an external enclosure for some reason in which case the MX-1 is a very good choice. (I'm using one w/1TB drive for Time Machine on my iMac).

If you want to save your current recordings you could try connecting both drives at the same time to copy everything over, but via USB it could take a long time. A better bet is to transfer the recordings to your Mac using TiVo Desktop and then back to TiVo after the upgrade.

winMFS is quite easy to use. Just follow the directions on the first post or on the MFSLive web site and let us know if you have any more questions.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## ChickenCheese

I didn't see any Seagate 1TB on the FAQ. Anyone have any luck with this one or know if it'll work? It's on sale right now at Best Buy for $109.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8490625&type=product&id=1186003683968


----------



## richsadams

ChickenCheese said:


> I didn't see any Seagate 1TB on the FAQ. Anyone have any luck with this one or know if it'll work? It's on sale right now at Best Buy for $109.
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8490625&type=product&id=1186003683968


The drive BB is selling is the retail kit (RK) of the Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST31000340AS. It comes from Seagate's newest "green" line of Barracuda drives (although you/TiVo wouldn't benefit from the green feature as the drive would never be idle).

There were some issues with the 1.5TB model of that line of hard drives (which were addressed with a firmware update) but AFAIK none with smaller sizes such as the 1TB. (BTW the 1.5TB drives don't work with TiVo just yet.)

The biggest note of caution would be noise. Seek acoustics are rated at 2.9 bels and drive manufacturers are inclined to claim the lowest possible test numbers so it may be higher in real world use. Seagate drive acoustics cannot be adjusted so you'd have to live with it. That stat isn't bad by comparison to some (3.7+ range) and if it's in a cabinet or far enough away that it won't bother you I don't see any reason it shouldn't work, but I don't recall anyone using that specific drive yet.

As mentioned before I think Seagate makes some of the best hardware available. I've used Seagate's DB35 DVR dedicated line of drives which offer lower acoustics (2.7 bels) albeit at a higher price. Right now however I'm using Western Digital's AV GP line of drives (WD10EVCS 1TB). Acoustics are even better at 2.4 bels (quieter than TiVo's OEM drives). They work in both Series3's and TiVo HD's. If you have a TiVo HD you could also consider a WD10EACS and use the Hitachi Feature Tool to adjust the acoustics down to 128 (equal to the WD10EVCS). I've had one of those working 24/7 for over a year and it has been flawless. YMMV of course.

The other recommended drives listed in the FAQ including Hitachi, etc. are a consideration of course and have a good track record.

Probably more info than you wanted but there it is...I always like options.  Me? I'd pay another $5 and get the WD10EVCS.


----------



## Bettamojo5

On 12/20/08 I upgraded my Tivo HD with a 1TB WD10EVCS. I ran a surface scan on the new drive and it reported No Bad Sectors. I used the sticky instructions with Winmfs and all went well. Tivo now shows as having 157 HD Hours or 1367 SD hours. I was happy and all was well. Today I simply changed the channel and things went black and then the powering up screen showed up followed by the almost there screen. After a few minutes, all was up and running again. The power did not go out at my house, because the lights and computer were all on too. Anything to be concerned about, or just a one time fluke?


----------



## richsadams

Bettamojo5 said:


> On 12/20/08 I upgraded my Tivo HD with a 1TB WD10EVCS. I ran a surface scan on the new drive and it reported No Bad Sectors. I used the sticky instructions with Winmfs and all went well. Tivo now shows as having 157 HD Hours or 1367 SD hours. I was happy and all was well. Today I simply changed the channel and things went black and then the powering up screen showed up followed by the almost there screen. After a few minutes, all was up and running again. The power did not go out at my house, because the lights and computer were all on too. Anything to be concerned about, or just a one time fluke?


Hmmm...sounds like a signal issue if it happened when you changed channels...likely nothing to do with your new drive. I'd check the signal status on that particular channel, see if there are any RS corrected or uncorrected errors, etc.

I'd also check all of your connections to be sure they're snug.

Do you have TiVo on a UPS? Even slight power interruptions, spikes, etc. can cause problems and it's a very good way of avoiding hard drive data corruption.

Probably a one-time event, but checking on everything is always a good idea.


----------



## Twich

I have TivoHD with the WD Expander for just over a year. It too has been freezing and randomly restarting over the last week. Sometimes during recorded shows, sometimes during Live TV. I've tried KickStart 54 - but the machine just freezes when I try to run the SMART Hard Drive Tests. So, I cant test the drives. I suspect that something is wrong with the Expander. In fact, I originally had an Expander for a week or two when I first bought the TivoHD and it crashed (wouldnt even start up) - so I returned it. This one has been working just shy of a year and given my past experience - I think its the culprit. I've already RMA'd the drive with WD and am waiting for the new one to arrive before sending my current one back. In no rush to loose all my programs, but this is very annoying. Any thoughts from anyone on my theories or similar experiences? Anyone else not able to run the Kickstart 54? I figure if the restarts continue once I've added the new Expander - then its likely the internal drive. Any help, thoughts, advice appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## richsadams

Twich said:


> I have TivoHD with the WD Expander for just over a year. It too has been freezing and randomly restarting over the last week. Sometimes during recorded shows, sometimes during Live TV. I've tried KickStart 54 - but the machine just freezes when I try to run the SMART Hard Drive Tests. So, I cant test the drives. I suspect that something is wrong with the Expander. In fact, I originally had an Expander for a week or two when I first bought the TivoHD and it crashed (wouldnt even start up) - so I returned it. This one has been working just shy of a year and given my past experience - I think its the culprit. I've already RMA'd the drive with WD and am waiting for the new one to arrive before sending my current one back. In no rush to loose all my programs, but this is very annoying. Any thoughts from anyone on my theories or similar experiences? Anyone else not able to run the Kickstart 54? I figure if the restarts continue once I've added the new Expander - then its likely the internal drive. Any help, thoughts, advice appreciated. Thanks.


Your analysis is very good. It does sound like a hard drive problem. The only other option would be to try replacing the eSATA cable. The recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable is less than $10. (Might even be worth having for your new drive.) Otherwise I think you're doing the right thing.

Before you install your new eSATA drive you will have to divorce the old one and of course you'll lose any recordings made since you installed it originally. If you have recordings you'd like to keep (and you can keep TiVo up and running long enough) you could transfer them to your computer w/TiVo Desk Top.

Once you divorce your drive...and even before hooking up the new one, be sure to run TiVo without an external drive. If there's a problem it should manifest itself right away and then you can decide what to do next.

Best of luck and let us know what happens.


----------



## Twich

richsadams said:


> Your analysis is very good. It does sound like a hard drive problem. The only other option would be to try replacing the eSATA cable. The recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable is less than $10. (Might even be worth having for your new drive.) Otherwise I think you're doing the right thing.
> 
> Before you install your new eSATA drive you will have to divorce the old one and of course you'll lose any recordings made since you installed it originally. If you have recordings you'd like to keep (and you can keep TiVo up and running long enough) you could transfer them to your computer w/TiVo Desk Top.
> 
> Once you divorce your drive...and even before hooking up the new one, be sure to run TiVo without an external drive. If there's a problem it should manifest itself right away and then you can decide what to do next.
> 
> Best of luck and let us know what happens.


Thanks Rich. I did replace the SATA cable and that didnt solve my problem. Funny that you mentioned sending the programs to my TivoDesktop. Just was doing that earlier today - but those HD files sure are big!  I sent some of the non-HD stuff to my to other series 2 Tivos. Quick follow-up question. Is there anyway to send the HD stuff that I'm gonna save of my PC (via TivoDesktop) back to my Tivo, once I have the new expander and everything is up and running? Really appreciate the quick reply. The restarting issue is driving my wife nuts. We love our Tivos, but she is about ready to through this one out the window. Hopefully the new WD drive arrives soon. Will probably just divorce the current one once I've transferred everything I can keep. Thanks again!!


----------



## richsadams

Twich said:


> Quick follow-up question. Is there anyway to send the HD stuff that I'm gonna save on my PC (via TivoDesktop) back to my Tivo, once I have the new expander and everything is up and running?


Glad to help. You should be able to use TiVo Desktop to transfer files to and from your PC. TiVo Desktop Plus will also transfer other types of video files.

Otherwise if you have a PC you can also use TiVoToGo or "TiVoBack" to transfer recordings (and other videos) to your TiVo. I think others are using PyTiVo and Mac users can supposedly use TiVoBack, but Roxio's Toast Titanium has an "official" program for that.

Keep us posted!


----------



## Softail95

I recently upgraded the internal drive in my HDTiVo using the procedure at the front of this FAQ and a WD10EVCS. I chose 'Yes' to Supersize the drive. The TiVo reports 142 Hours HD and 1241 Hours SD. It is running version 11.0-01-2-652. I have seen reports of more space and I'm wondering if everything went right... Attached is the MFSInfo of the drive after the copy/supersize. Did I get the most space possible?


----------



## Mindflux

Softail95 said:


> I recently upgraded the internal drive in my HDTiVo using the procedure at the front of this FAQ and a WD10EVCS. I chose 'Yes' to Supersize the drive. The TiVo reports 142 Hours HD and 1241 Hours SD. It is running version 11.0-01-2-652. I have seen reports of more space and I'm wondering if everything went right... Attached is the MFSInfo of the drive after the copy/supersize. Did I get the most space possible?


This is someone with a WD10EACS, which for the most part is just like an EVCS.










I think your hours are spot on for that drive? Each manufacturer varies a bit on what they call a gigabyte.


----------



## dmbpj

I successfully installed a 750GB WD Green AV-GP drive in my Tivo HD this weekend. I jumped from 21 HD recording hours to 116 hours!


----------



## bkdtv

Softail95 said:


> I recently upgraded the internal drive in my HDTiVo using the procedure at the front of this FAQ and a WD10EVCS. I chose 'Yes' to Supersize the drive. The TiVo reports 142 Hours HD and 1241 Hours SD. It is running version 11.0-01-2-652. I have seen reports of more space and I'm wondering if everything went right... Attached is the MFSInfo of the drive after the copy/supersize. Did I get the most space possible?


With Supersize enabled on a 1TB drive, you should see 156-158 HD hours.

Lately, we've seen a lot of users reporting 142 hours on their 1TB drive. It makes me wonder whether the "Supersize" function is broken in the latest version (v9.3) of the WinMFS software.

*Does anyone who upgraded with WinMFS v9.3 have ~157 HD hours on their 1TB drive?* If so, what kind of backup did you do (software/settings only or software/settings/recordings)? And did you do anything different from the instructions in the first post?


----------



## richsadams

bkdtv said:


> *Does anyone who upgraded with WinMFS v9.3 have ~157 HD hours on their 1TB drive?* If so, what kind of backup did you do (software/settings only or software/settings/recordings)? And did you do anything different from the instructions in the first post?


I used the latest version of winMFS (including software settings and recordings) in early December on a 1TB drive in our Series3 and my info shows 157 HD and 1367 SD hours.

The caveat is that I swapped out an early 1TB WD10EACS for a newer 1TB WD10EVCS and had no need to Supersize although IIRC I did click on it. The current info (157/1367) was already reported after v11.0 installed. So my data point doesn't exactly address the possibility of a broken Supersize function but I thought I'd add it in to validate the actual (larger) estimated recording figure report.


----------



## Mindflux

richsadams said:


> I used winMFS 9.3a just recently on a 1TB drive in our Series3 and my info shows 157 HD and 1367 SD hours.
> 
> The caveat is that I swapped out an early 1TB WD10EACS for a newer 1TB WD10EVCS and had no need to Supersize although IIRC I did click on it. The current info (157/1367) was already reported after v11.0 installed. So my data point doesn't exactly address the possibility of a broken Supersize function but I thought I'd add it in to validate the actual (larger) estimated recording figure report.


The latest version is 9.3d. I wonder if it's broken, as said above? Or are you mistaken the 9.3a TiVo software with the WinMFS version?


----------



## richsadams

Mindflux said:


> The latest version is 9.3d. I wonder if it's broken, as said above? Or are you mistaken the 9.3a TiVo software with the WinMFS version?


I swapped drives in early December so I would have used the latest version of wimMFS (as it was after Nov. 16th).


----------



## trussrules

I upgraded my Tivo HD with a 1 TB WD10EACS yesterday using the latest version of WinMFS (i'm not sure of the number but I downloaded it yesterday). I used the supersize function and ended up with 157HD hours and 1367 SD hours. I bought the drive from Amazon and it was manufactured in October. Perhaps Western Digital is doing something different with newer drives that they weren't doing before.


----------



## Softail95

trussrules said:


> I upgraded my Tivo HD with a 1 TB WD10EACS yesterday using the latest version of WinMFS (i'm not sure of the number but I downloaded it yesterday). I used the supersize function and ended up with 157HD hours and 1367 SD hours. I bought the drive from Amazon and it was manufactured in October. Perhaps Western Digital is doing something different with newer drives that they weren't doing before.


Did you Supersize manually after the copy, or just answer 'yes' to the supersize prompt after the copy was complete? I did the latter and got 142 Hours HD. I used version 9.3d of winMFS.


----------



## Mindflux

Softail95 said:


> Did you Supersize manually after the copy, or just answer 'yes' to the supersize prompt after the copy was complete? I did the latter and got 142 Hours HD. I used version 9.3d of winMFS.


That prompt is not a supersize prompt, afaik. That's an expand prompt (to expand your storage space to your new drive size). You have to go turn on SuperSize in the menu before or after your mfscopy operation.


----------



## Softail95

Mindflux said:


> That prompt is not a supersize prompt, afaik. That's an expand prompt (to expand your storage space to your new drive size). You have to go turn on SuperSize in the menu before or after your mfscopy operation.


Oh! Then I didn't Supersize at all..... Can I pull the drive and Supersize it now, after it has been in use?


----------



## bkdtv

Mindflux said:


> That prompt is not a supersize prompt, afaik. That's an expand prompt (to expand your storage space to your new drive size). You have to go turn on SuperSize in the menu before or after your mfscopy operation.


That's not the way it worked in earlier versions of WinMFS. In previous versions of WinMFS, Supersize was the last step.

That said, it is entirely possible that the behavior changed, requiring the user to enable Supersize _before_ before the restore / mfscopy. If someone can confirm, I'll edit the first post to reflect that.


----------



## Mindflux

Softail95 said:


> Oh! Then I didn't Supersize at all..... Can I pull the drive and Supersize it now, after it has been in use?


Yes, you can according to MFSlive's forums. Give it ago and report back.


----------



## DallasFlier

bkdtv said:


> With Supersize enabled on a 1TB drive, you should see 156-158 HD hours.
> 
> Lately, we've seen a lot of users reporting 142 hours on their 1TB drive. It makes me wonder whether the "Supersize" function is broken in the latest version (v9.3) of the WinMFS software.
> 
> *Does anyone who upgraded with WinMFS v9.3 have ~157 HD hours on their 1TB drive?* If so, what kind of backup did you do (software/settings only or software/settings/recordings)? And did you do anything different from the instructions in the first post?


bkdtv, I think the users reporting 142 hours are experiencing one of two things. Either they're on a version of the TiVo software prior to 11, in which case that's about the right number...

Or, more likely, they're leaving out a critical step because they're following directions to the letter in your sticky post. I pointed this out earlier:


DallasFlier said:


> I just upgraded my drive today, and ran into the same issue. I bet you did the same thing I did - I followed the instructions EXACTLY from the sticky post in this forum. There's a step missing. After you say "yes" to expand, you have to go back and select the destination drive (the source is selected at this point) before doing the "Supersize --> ON" option. This isn't mentioned in the instructions, but following the instructions exactly results in Supersizing the source drive, not the destination drive!
> 
> Fortunately, I was able to reconnect the drive to the computer without removing it again from the TiVo, did that, selected it, did the Supersize --> ON and all is well, 144 hours (157 hours with version 11 TiVo software.)
> 
> I posted in the sticky thread, suggesting that someone update the instructions.


I think there are two places in your instructions in the sticky thread - you corrected and added the step in the instructions at the very bottom of the sticky, but earlier in III.11 of your sticky, the same instructions are repeated (adding extra at the bottom to address doing an internal upgrade and external eSATA all at once) and you didn't correct and add the step there. My bet is most who are reporting the wrong numbers are following the instructions in that section of your sticky.

I used winMFS 9.3 for my upgrade, and am showing the correct number of hours, after going back and doing Supersize correctly.

Also, to support what someone else has already said - you can go back in and Supersize after the fact. I actually didn't physically remove the drive from my S3 to Supersize, just brought the TiVo over next to the PC and had cables long enough to connect and do the trick.


----------



## bkdtv

DallasFlier said:


> I think there are two places in your instructions in the sticky thread - you corrected and added the step in the instructions at the very bottom of the sticky, but earlier in III.11 of your sticky, the same instructions are repeated (adding extra at the bottom to address doing an internal upgrade and external eSATA all at once) and you didn't correct and add the step there. My bet is most who are reporting the wrong numbers are following the instructions in that section of your sticky.


Thanks. I just fixed that.

Do you know whether the Supersize command is needed a second time when marrying an external drive? I've never seen anyone mention that.


----------



## Softail95

Mindflux said:


> Yes, you can according to MFSlive's forums. Give it ago and report back.


Done. Now reporting 157 Hours HD and 1367 Hours SD. 

THANKS everybody.... I did miss turning on Supersize because it was not in the directions I printed from the top of this thread.


----------



## Mindflux

Softail95 said:


> Done. Now reporting 157 Hours HD and 1367 Hours SD.
> 
> THANKS everybody.... I did miss turning on Supersize because it was not in the directions I printed from the top of this thread.


SWEEEEEEEEEEET.  Congrats, sir.


----------



## DallasFlier

bkdtv said:


> Do you know whether the Supersize command is needed a second time when marrying an external drive? I've never seen anyone mention that.


Sorry, I've only done the 1TB internal, haven't ever tried to marry an external drive after that.


----------



## mattack

richsadams said:


> The drive BB is selling is the retail kit (RK) of the Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST31000340AS. It comes from Seagate's newest "green" line of Barracuda drives (although you/TiVo wouldn't benefit from the green feature as the drive would never be idle).
> 
> There were some issues with the 1.5TB model of that line of hard drives (which were addressed with a firmware update) but AFAIK none with smaller sizes such as the 1TB. ...


So then should the list in the first post be updated? Or is it really just that it's being subjective: What are _good_ drives to use with a eSATA enclosure or as an internal drive upgrade?

I guess I was hoping that that list was complete as to which drives were known to work as internal upgrades. I upgraded my S3 a few months ago, but now my TivoHD drive seems to be going bad around 14 months after getting it (when the last lifetime transfer was going on). I like that the Seagates have a 5 year warranty.

e.g. would this work as an internal replacement:
http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Barracuda-7200-11-Drive-ST31000340AS/dp/B000UC3CN0
??


----------



## bareyb

mattack said:


> So then should the list in the first post be updated? Or is it really just that it's being subjective: What are _good_ drives to use with a eSATA enclosure or as an internal drive upgrade?
> 
> I guess I was hoping that that list was complete as to which drives were known to work as internal upgrades. I upgraded my S3 a few months ago, but now my TivoHD drive seems to be going bad around 14 months after getting it (when the last lifetime transfer was going on). I like that the Seagates have a 5 year warranty.
> 
> e.g. would this work as an internal replacement:
> http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Barracuda-7200-11-Drive-ST31000340AS/dp/B000UC3CN0
> ??


I like Seagate drives a lot and I've used Barracudas in the past with great success. If these DO work, it would be a great addition to the list. That's a good price for a fast drive with a 32 meg buffer. :up:


----------



## richsadams

mattack said:


> So then should the list in the first post be updated? Or is it really just that it's being subjective: What are _good_ drives to use with a eSATA enclosure or as an internal drive upgrade?
> 
> I guess I was hoping that that list was complete as to which drives were known to work as internal upgrades. I upgraded my S3 a few months ago, but now my TivoHD drive seems to be going bad around 14 months after getting it (when the last lifetime transfer was going on). I like that the Seagates have a 5 year warranty.
> 
> e.g. would this work as an internal replacement:
> http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Barracuda-7200-11-Drive-ST31000340AS/dp/B000UC3CN0
> ??


bkdtv has done a terrific job of keeping his FAQ sticky post updated. Usually it takes more than a few people using a particular drive, enclosure, etc. for a period of time before it would qualify as "recommended". We've seen examples (Samsung Spinpoints and FAP's for example) that appeared to work fine initially but developed problems later, so I can't blame him and in fact encourage him to take a cautious approach.

If TiVo "Pioneers" such as yourself use a new piece of equipment and others follow and file follow up reports, it's likely that they'll be added to the FAQ.

Seagate's 5 year warranty is a very good selling point. As long as the drive you're hoping to use works and is quiet enough it seems like it's a good candidate for the list.


----------



## bkdtv

mattack said:


> I guess I was hoping that that list was complete as to which drives were known to work as internal upgrades. I upgraded my S3 a few months ago, but now my TivoHD drive seems to be going bad around 14 months after getting it (when the last lifetime transfer was going on). I like that the Seagates have a 5 year warranty.


Drives are added to the first post when (a) it becomes apparent many are using them successfully over a period of time, and (b) they work in the TivoHD and are shipped as part of other DVRs.

Many of the drives in the first post are found in shipping Dish Network and DirecTV DVRs. Reliability is a key consideration for these products because most are distributed at a loss, with profits made through programming and/or other fees. The longer these products remain in use, without the need for a replacement, the more money the provider makes. I also follow other forums for satellite DVRs, to see what users are successfully using as internal upgrades in those products.

_As an example, DirecTV's HR21-700 and HR21-100 both use the Western Digital WD3200AVJS, whereas the HR21-200 and HR21Pro use the Seagate ST3320820SCE and ST3500830SCE, respectively. _

Of course, priority is given to drives that members are successfully using with a TiVo over an extended period. There is a bias toward low-noise drives.


----------



## Mindflux

Alright I just dropped in a WD10EVCS to replace my THD's stock drive. I noticed last night while watching a recording that now and then the video would pause momentarily (it happened a few times).. like the drive couldn't keep up with a solitary recorded video stream.

When I'd FF through commercials there'd be a point where the FF would stop, then start again in freaky fast mode.. often rocketing me past where I'd want to start viewing normally again.

I used WinMFS on a Windows XP SP3 machine with two internal SATA cables. I did a truncated backup first, then I did mfscopy..that took about 20 minutes, I told it to expand the drive and then I supersized the drive (yes, I have 157 hours).

I'll report back more on it tonight.. maybe it'll smooth out after a day or two?


----------



## Softail95

Mindflux said:


> I'll report back more on it tonight.. maybe it'll smooth out after a day or two?


Did you happen to notice if it was online to the internet (Blue front panel light on)? Mine seemed a little less responsive right after I powered it up, but I noticed that it was doing some web updating. It seems fine now though....


----------



## Mindflux

Softail95 said:


> Did you happen to notice if it was online to the internet (Blue front panel light on)? Mine seemed a little less responsive right after I powered it up, but I noticed that it was doing some web updating. It seems fine now though....


I've only seen the blue light on the panel on if I'm using MRV and transfering from my S2 to my THD. Even if I force a connection to TiVo I can't say I've seen that light on.


----------



## Softail95

Mindflux said:


> I can't say I've seen that light on.


If you subscribe to any 'tivocast' programming you can see it on when it's getting those. That's what mine was doing.


----------



## Mindflux

Softail95 said:


> If you subscribe to any 'tivocast' programming you can see it on when it's getting those. That's what mine was doing.


Ah! I don't do any of that.


----------



## Twich

richsadams said:


> Glad to help. You should be able to use TiVo Desktop to transfer files to and from your PC. TiVo Desktop Plus will also transfer other types of video files.
> 
> Otherwise if you have a PC you can also use TiVoToGo or "TiVoBack" to transfer recordings (and other videos) to your TiVo. I think others are using PyTiVo and Mac users can supposedly use TiVoBack, but Roxio's Toast Titanium has an "official" program for that.
> 
> Keep us posted!


An update... I removed my expander Sunday night and haven't had an issue with the Tivo restarting or freezing since. At least not that I'm aware. I RMA'd the WD Expander drive and the replacement drive has been shipped. Hopefully this new expander will last longer. If not I'll ditch the sucker and just get a larger internal drive from weaknees. Thanks for the input! Highly recommend divorcing your Tivo from the expander if you have issues similar to mine. Seems to have solved the problem. WD warranty return program is also very easy, so would highly recommend doing a warranty return if you are having problems like mine and your expander is still within the 1 year warranty.


----------



## ccrider2

mattack said:


> So then should the list in the first post be updated? Or is it really just that it's being subjective: What are _good_ drives to use with a eSATA enclosure or as an internal drive upgrade?
> 
> I guess I was hoping that that list was complete as to which drives were known to work as internal upgrades. I upgraded my S3 a few months ago, but now my TivoHD drive seems to be going bad around 14 months after getting it (when the last lifetime transfer was going on). I like that the Seagates have a 5 year warranty.
> 
> e.g. would this work as an internal replacement:
> http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Barracuda-7200-11-Drive-ST31000340AS/dp/B000UC3CN0
> ??


I've had that Seagate drive in my S3 box since the second half of November 2008, still seems OK...no problems yet. I don't know how long they need to co-exist before they are considered compatible. I had no problems with the original drive....just wanted one a little larger, and to get the original out to a safe location, before something did go South. I bought mine from DELL (OEM packaged). FWIW 
Might be nice if we had a page (WIKI) where users could list their "drive - firmware - TiVo Box - install date" info. I have no idea how to start this or I would.

Good luck if you choose this model.....I did.


----------



## bkdtv

Mindflux said:


> When I'd FF through commercials there'd be a point where the FF would stop, then start again in freaky fast mode.. often rocketing me past where I'd want to start viewing normally again.


This has nothing to do with the drive upgrade.

This typically occurs when your cable provider inserts its own commercials with completely different encoding parameters from the program itself.


----------



## richsadams

Twich said:


> An update... I removed my expander Sunday night and haven't had an issue with the Tivo restarting or freezing since. <snip>


Thanks for the update. Seems that we're seeing more My DVR Expander drive failures these days. Guess it's been a little more than a year since they were introduced, but you'd think they would last a bit longer.

In any case, glad you found the source of the problem and that things will get back to normal soon. :up:


----------



## richsadams

bkdtv said:


> This has nothing to do with the drive upgrade.
> 
> This typically occurs when your cable provider inserts its own commercials with completely different encoding parameters from the program itself.


Agreed. I've seen the same activity on stock TiVo's. It's aggravating but not much you can do about it.


----------



## Mindflux

bkdtv said:


> This has nothing to do with the drive upgrade.
> 
> This typically occurs when your cable provider inserts its own commercials with completely different encoding parameters from the program itself.


That could very well be (I seem to remember the video output changing to 4:3 when this occurred). What about the video 'lag' while viewing a recorded program? I don't remember either of these two 'problems' occurring with the stock drive in the unit.


----------



## bkdtv

Mindflux said:


> That could very well be (I seem to remember the video output changing to 4:3 when this occurred). What about the video 'lag' while viewing a recorded program? I don't remember either of these two 'problems' occurring with the stock drive in the unit.


Video lag outside a cable company commercial with different encoding parameters?

I haven't heard of that anywhere. I suppose it could have been a problem with the broadcast.


----------



## Mindflux

bkdtv said:


> Video lag outside a cable company commercial with different encoding parameters?
> 
> I haven't heard of that anywhere. I suppose it could have been a problem with the broadcast.


Yeah I was watching a recording of "Intervention".. and they do these cut in/cut out scenes where some wording swoops in via a blur effect. You could see the blur start, then a moment later it finally 'focused' in. Later on in the show when they did another one it was very precise and timely (like I've come to expect from how they do it on this show).


----------



## zEli173

Any new words on plans for a 1TB My DVR Expander from Western Digital? The sticky mentions the possibility that it will appear in early 2009.


----------



## Mindflux

zEli173 said:


> Any new words on plans for a 1TB My DVR Expander from Western Digital? The sticky mentions the possibility that it will appear in early 2009.


I don't think they meant THIS early.


----------



## bkdtv

zEli173 said:


> Any new words on plans for a 1TB My DVR Expander from Western Digital? The sticky mentions the possibility that it will appear in early 2009.


Nothing on that front yet. That information is six months old, and they originally said 2H 2008. For all we know, it could be 2H 2009.


----------



## bkdtv

Mindflux said:


> Yeah I was watching a recording of "Intervention".. and they do these cut in/cut out scenes where some wording swoops in via a blur effect. You could see the blur start, then a moment later it finally 'focused' in. Later on in the show when they did another one it was very precise and timely (like I've come to expect from how they do it on this show).


Over on the AVS forum, it was established that some cable providers recompress their HD on the fly to save bandwidth, and sometimes frames are skipped on intense scenes with lots of movement. This bandwidth requirements of the other two channels on the same mux is a factor (bandwidth is allocated dynamically among all three channels on a QAM, depending on content complexity) .


----------



## zEli173

Mindflux said:


> I don't think they meant THIS early.


It's been six days already! 

I'm just trying to figure out if I want to deal with replacing the internal drive of my TiVoHD or wait for a 1TB plug and play option. Obtaining a pair of SATA > USB cables seems like it will add a good deal of expense and hassle.


----------



## Mindflux

zEli173 said:


> It's been six days already!
> 
> I'm just trying to figure out if I want to deal with replacing the internal drive of my TiVoHD or wait for a 1TB plug and play option. Obtaining a pair of SATA > USB cables seems like it will add a good deal of expense and hassle.


I just ended up using the internal SATA ports on my work PC. 

You could also do it with a single SATA > USB cable, though I don't think you can do a full backup that way? You could do a truncated and then unhook the drive and plug the new drive in and restore. That'll cut your parts costs down some if you don't mind losing programming.


----------



## richsadams

zEli173 said:


> It's been six days already!
> 
> I'm just trying to figure out if I want to deal with replacing the internal drive of my TiVoHD or wait for a 1TB plug and play option. Obtaining a pair of SATA > USB cables seems like it will add a good deal of expense and hassle.


Trust me, the cost of a SATA/USB adapter ($19?), a 1TB bare drive ($99?) and a an hour or so on a Saturday afternoon will look really attractive when everyone see's the price of a 1TB My DVR Expander (if they come to pass).

The 500GB My DVR Expander started at $209 and could only be purchased from TiVo or Best Buy. They're still about $120. A DIY is half that. I shudder to think what a new 1TB model will retail for. I'm sure it will satisfy those that can't do more than plug and pray, but it won't be cheap.

A DIY internal upgrade is the way to go IMHO. Cheaper, more reliable and one less fail point. Not to mention the satisfaction of being able to brag about your technical expertise to your closest friends. YMMV


----------



## zEli173

OK, I'm convinced. And I'm definitely not concerned with transfering my recordings since my TiVo is new. I'll be doing the upgrade on a Dell Laptop, does that hardware provide a means sans usb cable? If not, What exactly are the steps for doing the upgrade with only one cable?

Someone please point me to a 1TB drive for $99 and (if necessary) a cable for $19.


----------



## talkingtiki

zEli173 said:


> OK, I'm convinced. And I'm definitely not concerned with transfering my recordings since my TiVo is new. I'll be doing the upgrade on a Dell Laptop, does that hardware provide a means sans usb cable? If not, What exactly are the steps for doing the upgrade with only one cable?
> 
> Someone please point me to a 1TB drive for $99 and (if necessary) a cable for $19.


$24 bucks, but this one actually works. I have one.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812232002

1TB WD Hard Drive. $99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136293


----------



## trussrules

I wouldn't recommend putting a refurbished drive in your TiVo. The WD10EVCS is $110 at buy.com right now (just go to buy.com and search for WD10EVCS). They even have free shipping right now.


----------



## richsadams

zEli173 said:


> OK, I'm convinced. And I'm definitely not concerned with transfering my recordings since my TiVo is new. I'll be doing the upgrade on a Dell Laptop, does that hardware provide a means sans usb cable? If not, What exactly are the steps for doing the upgrade with only one cable?
> 
> Someone please point me to a 1TB drive for $99 and (if necessary) a cable for $19.


You'll need to use a SATA/USB adapter with your Dell laptop. All of the info you need is on the first post of this thread. Basically you'll download winMFS to the laptop, connect your TiVo drive, run winMFS, copy the image then connect your new drive and copy the TiVo image to it. There are a couple of more steps, but that's it in a nutshell.



trussrules said:


> I wouldn't recommend putting a refurbished drive in your TiVo.


Sound advice. MacMall has a brand new WD10EACS for $99.99 w/free shipping. Excellent customer service to boot. :up:

I used one of these SATA/USB Adapters ($19.99) once and it worked fine. But you'd need to spend another $5 to get free shipping.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## zEli173

OK, cruised through the most recent 20 pages or so and I think I've got things straight. Please correct any of the following understandings:

Seems like the drive of choice at the moment for the TiVoHD is the WD10EACS. As I understand it, after adjusting the audio settings there are no functional differences between the EACS and the ECVS or EVVS when inside a TiVo. Given that the EACS seems to be the lowest cost, it's the best bet. The WD10000CSRTL is the retail version of the EACS but likely only available at a higher version.

Seagate's newish 1.5 TB drive sounds nice in theory. but hasn't been reliably tested in TiVo's yet. Further, partition issues mean one can't even take advantage of the entire 1.5 TB's so there's less additional storage than it would seem on the surface. Other Seagate models are well respected for their reliability but not as quiet as the WD drives.

[Edited to delete already answered question].


----------



## zEli173

Thanks for all the input. I wound up purchasing the 10EVCS from Buy.com. Free shipping at MacMall has strings attached so the price on the EVCS at Buy.com was the same after a $5 coupon. I already had things in my cart at Amazon, so no problem qualifying for free shipping. I added in this Torx screw driver, maybe good for those looking for a very cheap option.

I'll report back in a week when it's time to upgrade.


----------



## richsadams

zEli173 said:


> Thanks for all the input. I wound up purchasing the 10EVCS from Buy.com. Free shipping at MacMall has strings attached so the price on the EVCS at Buy.com was the same after a $5 coupon. I already had things in my cart at Amazon, so no problem qualifying for free shipping. I added in this Torx screw driver, maybe good for those looking for a very cheap option.
> 
> I'll report back in a week when it's time to upgrade.


Good work...let us know how it goes.

BTW, looks like you got the last Torx wrench...all sold out now. But they can be found at most any auto parts store, Sears, etc.


----------



## Softail95

richsadams said:


> But they can be found at most any auto parts store, Sears, etc.


Home Depot sells a nice little versatile one for about $8 IIRC. The Husky HD-74502. It's a little precision Torx driver with 4 interchangeable, double-ended tips in sizes T4, T5, T6, T7, T8, T9, T10 and T15 tips. It has come in very handy for all TiVo work and for other things like disassembling cell phones and other small electronics. Guaranteed forever. I saw some on Ebay too, in case you don't have a HD nearby.


----------



## talkingtiki

trussrules said:


> I wouldn't recommend putting a refurbished drive in your TiVo. The WD10EVCS is $110 at buy.com right now (just go to buy.com and search for WD10EVCS). They even have free shipping right now.


DER, sorry I didn't realize that was a refurb. My bad. I wouldn't use one either. Oh well Rich has got him straight.


----------



## bkdtv

Softail95 said:


> Home Depot sells a nice little versatile one for about $8 IIRC. The Husky HD-74502. It's a little precision Torx driver with 4 interchangeable, double-ended tips in sizes T4, T5, T6, T7, T8, T9, T10 and T15 tips. It has come in very handy for all TiVo work and for other things like disassembling cell phones and other small electronics. Guaranteed forever. I saw some on Ebay too, in case you don't have a HD nearby.


Does this have a 2.5" or longer shaft?


----------



## Mindflux

Alright. I watched two recorded shows last night since putting in my WD10EVCS. Both these shows had points where the video would stop and then start again in another location (a few moments later in the stream). I cannot ever recall the TiVo doing this with the stock drive. I seem to also be getting more macroblocking too. I guess this could all be coincidental and TWC is having problems but it's starting to feel like this drive can't keep up.. which I find odd nobody else has reported anything similar to my findings.


----------



## greg_burns

Mindflux said:


> Alright. I watched two recorded shows last night since putting in my WD10EVCS. Both these shows had points where the video would stop and then start again in another location (a few moments later in the stream). I cannot ever recall the TiVo doing this with the stock drive. I seem to also be getting more macroblocking too. I guess this could all be coincidental and TWC is having problems but it's starting to feel like this drive can't keep up.. which I find odd nobody else has reported anything similar to my findings.


Definately not had any problems with my WD10EVCS in the past six months. That drive definately can keep up. Hopefully you didn't get a lemon. You may want to pull it and put in a PC to run some extended tests on it to be sure it doesn't have a problem.


----------



## Softail95

bkdtv said:


> Does this have a 2.5" or longer shaft?


No, the shaft part of the driver is 1.75" long. The driver is 5.5" overall.


----------



## zEli173

Softail95 said:


> No, the shaft part of the driver is 1.75" long. The driver is 5.5" overall.


I thought the shaft is 3.5 inches, but in any event is the shaft length really a necessity or just a recommendation?


----------



## Softail95

zEli173 said:


> I thought the shaft is 3.5 inches, but in any event is the shaft length really a necessity or just a recommendation?


Specifically relating to the TiVo, at least in my Series 1 and HDTiVo, I was able to get to all the screws. The "front right-hand" screw holding the drive cradle down is a little tight, but there is enough clearance for the handle and the shaft is long enough.


----------



## zEli173

So are you saying that the Torx item I ordered won't work?


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## Softail95

zEli173 said:


> So are you saying that the Torx item I ordered won't work?


Not at all. But, I needed a T-10 AND a T-15 to do the whole job on my HDTiVo. The case screws and the screws holding the drive cradle to the motherboard were T-10, but the screws holding the drive to the drive cradle were T-15. The HD-74502 has both bits...


----------



## dmbpj

Softail95 said:


> Not at all. But, I needed a T-10 AND a T-15 to do the whole job on my HDTiVo. The case screws and the screws holding the drive cradle to the motherboard were T-10, but the screws holding the drive to the drive cradle were T-15. The HD-74502 has both bits...


when i put in a 750GB drive in my Tivo HD last weekend I had to use both a T15 and a T10 as well


----------



## Rocka2

I am planning to do an upgrade on an ordinary Tivo HD and I was having real difficulty deciding which version of hard drives to use. I decided to order the Western Digital AV-GP for the internal drive and then because I did not want to spend very much money I ordered only the WD10EACS to use in an external enclosure with the AV-GP. Should I have gotten another AV-GP for the external enclosure? I really want to get the best for bang for the buck without sacrificing performance and considering longevity. They are all so close in price now I really did not save very much money by getting the WD10EACS. I realize I could have also used a WD10EACS internally since it is only a Tivo HD. Western Digital AV-GP is a really good deal right now. If this sounds like I am second guessing myself, it is true, I am. Does anybody have any input on my choices?


----------



## richsadams

Rocka2 said:


> I am planning to do an upgrade on an ordinary Tivo HD and I was having real difficulty deciding which version of hard drives to use. I decided to order the Western Digital AV-GP for the internal drive and then because I did not want to spend very much money I ordered only the WD10EACS to use in an external enclosure with the AV-GP. Should I have gotten another AV-GP for the external enclosure? I really want to get the best for bang for the buck without sacrificing performance and considering longevity. They are all so close in price now I really did not save very much money by getting the WD10EACS. I realize I could have also used a WD10EACS internally since it is only a Tivo HD. Western Digital AV-GP is a really good deal right now. If this sounds like I am second guessing myself, it is true, I am. Does anybody have any input on my choices?


Not to worry as both drives are are basically the same. Besides being "pre-tuned" to be quieter, the AV-GP has a couple of other features, non of which can be used by TiVo.

The difference you'll realize is that without any adjustments, the WD10EVCS will be quieter than the WD10EACS. "Seek noise", the clicking you hear when a hard drive is working (and they are working 24/7 in TiVo), can be annoying to some if the drive is close enough for them to hear particularly in a bedroom, etc.

That said you can "tune" the WD10EACS to be more quiet by using a little PC program called the Hitachi Feature Tool. It's fairly easy to use (here is the User Guide) and the work could be done while it's connected to your computer for the upgrade. More details can be found on their web site as well as the first post of this thread.

If you leave everything as is it might be fine. You could put the WD10EVCS in the external enclosure since you'll likely hear it a little more than TiVo's internal drive.

You're correct, buying the AV-GP WD10EVCS is probably worth a couple of bucks more to save the time it takes to reduce the acoustics.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## Rocka2

Thank you for your insights. I enjoy reading all of your posts. I really enjoy this forum and Tivo. Thank you very much.


----------



## mattack

ccrider2 said:


> I've had that Seagate drive in my S3 box since the second half of November 2008


Thanks, but that's actually the drive I already have in my S3. But my TivoHD drive is starting to go bad, and from what I can tell, the list of drives that work as _internal_ replacements for the TivoHD & Series 3 differ... that's why I was asking.

(For others, the drive is http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Barracuda-7200-11-Drive-ST31000340AS/dp/B000UC3CN0)


----------



## richsadams

mattack said:


> But my TivoHD drive is starting to go bad, and from what I can tell, the list of drives that work as _internal_ replacements for the TivoHD & Series 3 differ... that's why I was asking.


I think you've come across the info already, but the only drive on the recommended list that has a caveat is the WD10EACS which does NOT work as an internal HDD upgrade in the Series3 due to a soft reboot issue. It's cousin, the WD10EVCS, a dedicated AV/GP drive works fine in both models inside and out.

The only other item of note is that Seagate's new 1.5TB drive is problematic in either getting it to work or if it works not being able to use the full capacity of the drive.


----------



## jlib

mattack said:


> ...I like that the Seagates have a 5 year warranty...





richsadams said:


> ...Seagate's 5 year warranty is a very good selling point...


Note that Seagate abandoned the 5-year warranty on bare non-enterprise drives. Not that they are any less reliable but they really can't compete while charging a premium price which is difficult to do in the cut-throat hard drive market. Warranties are just insurance that the consumer ultimately pays for.


----------



## trussrules

jlib said:


> Note that Seagate abandoned the 5-year warranty on bare non-enterprise drives. Not that they are any less reliable but they really can't compete while charging a premium price which is difficult to do in the cut-throat hard drive market. Warranties are just insurance that the consumer ultimately pays for.


Where did you read this? I had a bare Seagate drive that was only a month old go dead in October and Seagate replaced it for free with no problems? From what I've read, they haven't completely abandoned the 5-year warranty, just lowered it to 3 years.


----------



## dxcoded

well I did it!!! Last night I replaced my original tivoHD drive and put in the WD10EVCS. I used the linux boot cd on my intel Imac and transfered all my recordings! Wow how easy it was! It took about 3 1/2 hours to complete getting a transfer rate of 13m/b sec. I now have 141 hd hours for recording!!! I will supersize my drive soon I just need to gain access to a windows machine. Too bad the supersize is not an option on the boot cd


----------



## jlib

trussrules said:


> Where did you read this? I had a bare Seagate drive that was only a month old go dead in October and Seagate replaced it for free with no problems? From what I've read, they haven't completely abandoned the 5-year warranty, just lowered it to 3 years.


Yes, sorry, poor wording on my part. That is what I meant to imply. It used to be that Seagate had the 5 years compared to everyone else's 3 years on bare drives so had a certain advantage. They still have the 5 years on retail packages. So, "abandoned" was just sloppy wording in every respect. Thanks for clarifying that.


----------



## Pepito

Greetings from Australia. 

I bought a TiVo last weekend, extremely happy with it. Last night I upgraded the standard 160Gb WD1600AVJS hard drive to a 1TB WD10EAVS

Seems to work fine except whereas the old drive was basically silent, the new drive is not. Its not noisy but I can definately hear it seeking as it records.

Curiously I can't find the WD10EAVS on the WD website so according to them it doesn't exist  , does anybody know anything about it particularly whether its a good choice for a TiVo update? thanks


----------



## jlib

Basically, it is a WD10EACS but with only 8MB cache. It is unclear if it has the same soft reboot problem as the WD10EACS with S3 models but as you point out it should be fine with the TiVo HD. As with the WD10EACS it is not intended to be used without detuning the head seek acoustics (quiet seek mode). You can use Hitachi Feature Tool or any Linux live boot disk (via hdparm command). You can do this at anytime without affecting contents of drive.


----------



## bkdtv

Pepito said:


> Greetings from Australia.
> 
> I bought a TiVo last weekend, extremely happy with it. Last night I upgraded the standard 160Gb WD1600AVJS hard drive to a 1TB WD10EAVS
> 
> Seems to work fine except whereas the old drive was basically silent, the new drive is not. Its not noisy but I can definately hear it seeking as it records.
> 
> Curiously I can't find the WD10EAVS on the WD website so according to them it doesn't exist  , does anybody know anything about it particularly whether its a good choice for a TiVo update? thanks


Unlike the WD10EVCS and WD10EVVS (sold for DVRs), the WD10EAVS and WD10EACS are not tuned for low-noise operation out of the box. For the WD10EAVS and WD10EACS, you need to use Hitachi Feature Tool to adjust these drives for quiet operation. More information on that can be found in Section III, FAQ #29 of the first post.


----------



## mattack

richsadams said:


> I think you've come across the info already, but the only drive on the recommended list that has a caveat is the WD10EACS which does NOT work as an internal HDD upgrade in the Series3 due to a soft reboot issue. It's cousin, the WD10EVCS, a dedicated AV/GP drive works fine in both models inside and out.
> 
> The only other item of note is that Seagate's new 1.5TB drive is problematic in either getting it to work or if it works not being able to use the full capacity of the drive.


Ok, thanks. I should go read that again. Maybe the list could be clarified. Basically, you're saying that except for the ABOVE problems, there are no known problems, right?

I was basically treating the list the opposite way -- that list was the list of drives that were known to work, and be vary wary that anything else likely wouldn't work. (For example, in my Toshiba XS32 hard drive/DVD recorder and its successors, the drive and DVD burner replacements are VERY limited. Generally things are known _not_ to work rather than work.)


----------



## richsadams

mattack said:


> Ok, thanks. I should go read that again. Maybe the list could be clarified. Basically, you're saying that except for the ABOVE problems, there are no known problems, right?


All of the drives listed on the first post are successfully being used by TCF members, with the warning about not using the WD10EACS in a Series3.

More recently there were several reports of Samsung Spinpoint drives either failing or not able to boot up. IIRC they were in both TiVo HD's and Series3's.

With regard to using anything else...caveat emptor as they say. As hard drive models are refined/upgraded and new models come along brave TiVo Pioneers like yourself will be called upon to report back on how things go. bkdtv continues to do a stellar job of keeping the first post up to date thanks to all of the good folks here sharing their successful and not so successful upgrade stories. :up:


----------



## Softail95

I looked on the fora for an answer to this question, and I found the question, but not the answer.

I was putting another 1TB Seagate (ST31000340AS) into my PC yesterday, and I pulled the jumper for "limit I/O to 1,5 Gbs" off the drive, since my mb will run it at 3.0 Gbs... As I did this, a few of things occurred to me... 1. Was there a jumper like that on the WD that I put into the HDTiVo a few days ago? 2. Since I don't remember, I obviously didn't pull it--should I have? and 3. Out of curiosity, Does the TiVo SATA interface run at 1.5Gbs or faster? 

I know that I could find the answer to #1 by looking at the drive, but I'd rather not pull apart the TiVo again if someone already knows the answer....


----------



## danpedraza

I was able to purchase the 1TB wd Green drive new and already hacked by an Ebay seller with 100 percent feedback and powerseller over 4000 transactions. I followed the guide and removed the old drive (160gb) and replaced with this new one. I was able to perform guided setup and can live with all lost settings and recordings. Before the upgrade i was able to get Cablevision NYC all premium channels like HBO, Cinemax Showtime.... I get most of the channels now including HBO and showtime HD. I get all the HD channels and all the standard cable channels. What i dont get is all the regular standard def premiums like HBO, Showtime, Cinemax. I get the black screen that says cable provide needs to be contacted. I call cable provider and they are on the phone like 3 hours trying to resolve. They cant do it. Am i in need of a new cablecard?


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## txporter

If you purchased a drive from an ebay seller with the software all ready to go, it doesn't have your cablecard information. You will need to have them re-paired and authorized. I am surprised that you are getting any of the channels that cablecards are needed for.

You can also do a truncated backup of your old drive and restore to the new drive using winMFS to copy your CC info and settings over...but I think that is what you were trying to avoid by purchasing a drive that was ready to go.

Jason


----------



## Partridge

softail wrote: 1. Was there a jumper like that on the WD that I put into the HDTiVo a few days ago? 2. Since I don't remember, I obviously didn't pull it--should I have? and 3. Out of curiosity, Does the TiVo SATA interface run at 1.5Gbs or faster?

Hello to all. I really get alot out of this forum, thanks  ...long time lurker...

I just purchased the WD10EVCS...actually 2 of them (2nd one has not arrived) and I don't recall any jumpers attached to the drive. So to answer your questions: 1. No; 2. Nothing to pull; 3. I assume that Tivos HD SATA is compatible with the faster throughput, otherwise the drive would not function...


----------



## Mindflux

I too don't recall a jumper on the WD10EVCS.


----------



## Softail95

Partridge said:


> . I assume that Tivos HD SATA is compatible with the faster throughput, otherwise the drive would not function...


SATA can go 1.5Gb/s or 3.0Gb/s. I was wondering if anyone knew which TiVo uses....


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## bkdtv

Softail95 said:


> SATA can go 1.5Gb/s or 3.0Gb/s. I was wondering if anyone knew which TiVo uses....


IIRC, 1.5 Gbps.


----------



## mhalladay

All - A quick 'success story' from a long-time lurker, who is very grateful for all of the guidance and info found on this site (and especially this Thread):
- Standard TivoHD set up last weekend (Amazon price was $222.27, w/ free shipping)
- On Saturday, I set up the TivoHD with Comcast cable input and Ethernet wired into my home network. All went well with basic setup, then I forced a couple of connections to the Tivo server to assure that most current software would be downloaded; and then forced as system restart so that the updated software would be installed, instead of waiting for this to happen at 2:00a.m or so, as apparently is normal procedure for major software updates. Successfully went from version 8 to 11.0, which enables Netflix and external eSATA access, among other things I'm sure.
- Went to Comcast counter (Arlington, VA) that afternoon, as customer service phone call advised me that I could pick up cablecard(s) there; of course that turned out to be wrong; but they could schedule me for technician visit the next morning (yes, Sunday!) - Technicial showed up as promised, and installed one M-card -- it was recognized by the Comcast network center and I was recieving all channels within minutes: VERY smooth, I must say, for Comcast...
- Separately, I ordered 2 WD10EVCS drives and the Icy Dock MB559US-1SMB eSATA enclosure; all from BUY.com - again with free shipping. Drives were $112 each, enclosure was $68 (I did decide to spend a bit more on this; no fan, and good feedback on build quality & performance, from what I could find.)
- This morning, I followed all of the directions in FAQ #11, Section III above; and within an hour I had gone from 21 hours HD to 318 hours HD capacity -- very smooth and easy, I must say. I have a home-built Vista machine with Asus P5K mobo and Antec TruePower supply; so it was easy for me to cable up to 2 unused SATA connections on the motherboard & unused SATA power connectors - transfer of all settings and recordings from the original drive using WinMSF took about 35 minutes. Installing the new internal WD10EVCS, closign up the TivoHD, and connecting the eSATA cable to the Icy Dock enclosure went easily, and the system started up just like normally. I didn't even have to go through the Tivo menus to enable the external storage -- full 318 hours HD capacity showed up with first start-up of the TivoHD with attached eSATA drive; I'm using the eSATA cable that came with the Icy Dock enclosure, and it's working just fine (I did also buy a Siig cable from Amazon, but will save that for later...)

I just want to say 'Thanks' to all of the folks who've contributed to making this upgrade so comfortable for me to take on.

That's all from A Happy TivoHD user!


----------



## Mindflux

mhalladay said:


> - Separately, I ordered 2 WD10EVCS drives and the Icy Dock MB559US-1SMB eSATA enclosure; all from BUY.com - again with free shipping. Drives were $112 each, enclosure was $68 (I did decide to spend a bit more on this; no fan, and good feedback on build quality & performance, from what I could find.)
> - This morning, I followed all of the directions in FAQ #11, Section III above; and within an hour I had gone from 21 hours HD to 318 hours HD capacity -- very smooth and easy, I must say.


HOLY FRIJOLE. 318 hours? 

What's your impressions of that Icy Dock? It's got a 20 dollar rebate on it right now.

I should have done this from the get go, I'd have to remove the drive and marry the external to get this to work now... oh well. 157 hours of HD is still insane.


----------



## jlib

Partridge said:


> I assume that Tivos HD SATA is compatible with the faster throughput, otherwise the drive would not function...


Yes, 3.0Gb/s is supposed to be backwards compatible with 1.5Gb/s from either side of the connection but you still see some drives with jumpers to limit to 1.5Gb/s to accommodate some misbehaving early SATA controller chips that did not implement autonegotiation properly but generally you should not need to worry about it these days. Not to mention it is unlikely you will find a drive that will be a able to keep up with a 1.5Gb/s interface let alone a 3.0Gb/s one.


----------



## Partridge

jlib said:


> Yes, 3.0Gb/s is supposed to be backwards compatible with 1.5Gb/s from either side of the connection but you still see some drives with jumpers to limit to 1.5Gb/s to accommodate some misbehaving early SATA controller chips that did not implement autonegotiation properly but generally you should not not need to worry about it these days. Not to mention it is unlikely you will find a drive that will be a able to keep up with a 1.5Gb/s interface let alone a 3.0Gb/s one.


OK, thanks. I was basing my earlier comment on something I read in the Hitachi Feature Set manual..."Early generation SATA drives where introduced supporting 1.5Gb/s interface transfer speeds. Advances in technology have introduced a new standard that can support transfer speeds of up to 3.0Gb/s. Hitachi Global Storage Technologies SATA products (Deskstar 7K80 onwards) support up to 3.0Gb/s. Unfortunately some Host controllers in the market have yet to support the latest standard in its entirety, thus if drives set to support these recent features were to be attached to those Hosts the drive may not be able to boot."

The WD10EVCS comes with no jumpers, and the drive indicates Jumpered pins 5 & 6 enables 1.5GB PHY. So I incorrectly assumed that since there was no jumper, it must be operating @ the higher tranxfer speed, when it could be operating at either. 

Also verified that the automatic acoustic management was set to 128 on this drive.


----------



## mhalladay

Mindflux said:


> HOLY FRIJOLE. 318 hours?
> 
> What's your impressions of that Icy Dock? It's got a 20 dollar rebate on it right now.
> 
> I should have done this from the get go, I'd have to remove the drive and marry the external to get this to work now... oh well. 157 hours of HD is still insane.


I may not have the 318 HD hours anymore... After being up through the afternoon yesterday, last night the TivoHD spontaneously rebooted (I had just re-programmed the 30-second skip, and was going back and forth in a recording - it froze and then went through Powerup procedure.) It did okay for a while, but then was again unresponsive to the remote.. So I'm thinking there may be a problem with external drive connector; I decide to remove external storage -- did this with power off to the TivoHD, then Tivo startup recognized that eSATA drive was gone; I confirmed that I wanted to remove the external storage (my thought being that I'd get up & running with just the new internal 1TB drive, and let that run for at least a week..) -- BUT, system got stuck for at least 50 minutes at a screen saying that external drive was being removed - message did say it would take a while and to not unplug the Tivo until it restarted... but I thought 50 minutes was plenty of time, and that it had hung.. SO, I did unplug power; upon restarting, I got a screen saying TivoHD had experienced a serious problem, that an attempt to fix it would take about 3 hours, and then to contact Customer Service if it did not restart after 3 hours. Given my 'unauthorized' upgrade, I've decided to open up the unit, and re-copy the original 160GB Tivo internal drive to the 1TB WD drive, and see if I can get it running and stable again, with just internal.... I may just go without the external eSATA drive (I can use it for my Vista PC - current boot drive is filling up...)

If anyone has thoughts on where I went wrong, or what type of issue may have caused this, I'd welcome input!

I forgot to mention the $20 rebate for the Icy Dock -- so far, it seems very nice...

Thanks for the reply....


----------



## bkdtv

mhalladay,

It's possible that the eSATA cable caused some sort of corruption.

It's possible that one of your drives was defective or damaged in shipment.

It is also possible that upgraded internal + external drives are not reliable with the 11.0 software released before the Christmas holidays. Many others have upgraded just their internal drives with 11.0, but I believe you are the first person to report on an internal + external upgrade since that version was released.

I'll add a disclaimer to the FAQ about such dual drive upgrades at least until we get some successful reports of that under 11.0.


----------



## jlib

mhalladay said:


> ...If anyone has thoughts on where I went wrong, or what type of issue may have caused this, I'd welcome input!


Since you have the well regarded Siig cable you might as well use it. Also, is the Icy Dock in a well ventilated area? Since it has no fan you want to make sure overheating does not occur. As to what overheating is, well, ideally you would want to run the drive for a while and then immediately open it and get a reading off the drive with a IR thermometer. That might not be practical. At least the drives you are using are very cool running so should be OK in that enclosure as long as it has good air flow around it.


----------



## richsadams

mhalladay said:


> I decide to remove external storage -- did this with power off to the TivoHD, then Tivo startup recognized that eSATA drive was gone; I confirmed that I wanted to remove the external storage (my thought being that I'd get up & running with just the new internal 1TB drive, and let that run for at least a week..) -- BUT, system got stuck for at least 50 minutes at a screen saying that external drive was being removed - message did say it would take a while and to not unplug the Tivo until it restarted... but I thought 50 minutes was plenty of time, and that it had hung.. SO, I did unplug power; upon restarting, I got a screen saying TivoHD had experienced a serious problem, that an attempt to fix it would take about 3 hours, and then to contact Customer Service if it did not restart after 3 hours. <snip>


You've gotten some good advice so far and I'll put in my two-cents as well. The fact that pulling the plug triggered an MFS assert (GSOD, which marks the file system as being damaged) tends to make me believe that after disconnecting your eSATA drive, 50 minutes may not have been enough time for TiVo to reformat, reindex, etc. and it ended up corrupting the data on the drive. Depending on how many recordings you had it probably needed more time. IIRC someone else did the same and it took over three hours for TiVo to clean things up and reboot. Best bet is to follow directions.  I think I would have left it overnight and if it was still on that screen in the a.m., then I might pull the plug. Just a thought.

Re-imaging the drive should get you back up and running. Let us know how things go.


----------



## txporter

bkdtv said:


> It is also possible that upgraded internal + external drives are not reliable with the 11.0 software released before the Christmas holidays. Many others have upgraded just their internal drives with 11.0, but I believe you are the first person to report on an internal + external upgrade since that version was released.
> 
> I'll add a disclaimer to the FAQ about such dual drive upgrades at least until we get some successful reports of that under 11.0.


I added an antec mx-1 with a WD10EVCS to my TivoHD on 1/3. I have a WD10EACS internally which I have run for over a year. Using the SIIG cable. No problems on V11.

Jason


----------



## mhalladay

richsadams said:


> You've gotten some good advice so far and I'll put in my two-cents as well. The fact that pulling the plug triggered an MFS assert , which marks the file system as being damaged) tends to make me believe that after disconnecting your eSATA drive, 50 minutes may not have been enough time for TiVo to reformat, reindex, etc. and it ended up corrupting the data on the drive. Depending on how many recordings you had it probably needed more time. IIRC someone else did the same and it took over three hours for TiVo to clean things up and reboot. Best bet is to follow directions.  I think I would have left it overnight and if it was still on that screen in the a.m., then I might pull the plug. Just a thought.
> 
> Re-imaging the drive should get you back up and running. Let us know how things go.


I do appreciate the good feedback; and (in hindsight) I may have been too impatient after the 50 minute wait... The overnight idea, especially, sounds good - but my wife and I wanted to watch the NFL playoffs today, and I had returned the Comcast HD cable box yesterday - so the TivoHD was the only way we'd see the games in HD in the living room! (I know, not a good excuse, but it is a reason..). I also did not try replacing the cable; again, in hindsight, this is something that may have helped.

Re-copying using WinMFS from the original 160GB drive and just going with the internal 1TB is working very well as of now :up: -- I may go ahead and add the eSATA later; but for now I'm very relieved that the system is stable and back to 'normal'. My system is now showing 142 hrs. of HD capacity; this should serve quite well, but I see from FAQ that maybe it should be 165... - Anyone have ideas on why this may be?

Thanks, all, for the info, ideas, and support. Mike H


----------



## richsadams

mhalladay said:


> My system is now showing 142 hrs. of HD capacity; this should serve quite well, but I see from FAQ that maybe it should be 165... - Anyone have ideas on why this may be?)


Hi Mike. Glad to hear things are about normal and the wife didn't indicate that the sofa was your new home. 

It sounds like you didn't do the Supersize step with winMFS. That would have put you at 157 HD hours. Not a big deal. You can do it any time without impacting anything else.

Enjoy!


----------



## dxcoded

richsadams said:


> It sounds like you didn't do the Supersize step with winMFS. That would have put you at 157 HD hours. Not a big deal. You can do it any time without impacting anything else.


Do you have to take the drive back out of the tivo to do this or can you hook a usb up to it and just supersize the drive?

thanks

eric


----------



## txporter

dxcoded said:


> Do you have to take the drive back out of the tivo to do this or can you hook a usb up to it and just supersize the drive?
> 
> thanks
> 
> eric


You need to mount the drive with winmfs to supersize it. You can pop the case on your tivo and hook up a usb/sata adapter from your computer to tivo. The drive doesn't need to come totally out of the tivo, if that is what you are asking.

Jason


----------



## richsadams

What Jason said.


----------



## myblubu

Partridge said:


> softail wrote: 1. Was there a jumper like that on the WD that I put into the HDTiVo a few days ago? 2. Since I don't remember, I obviously didn't pull it--should I have? and 3. Out of curiosity, Does the TiVo SATA interface run at 1.5Gbs or faster?
> 
> Hello to all. I really get alot out of this forum, thanks  ...long time lurker...
> 
> I just purchased the WD10EVCS...actually 2 of them (2nd one has not arrived) and I don't recall any jumpers attached to the drive. So to answer your questions: 1. No; 2. Nothing to pull; 3. I assume that Tivos HD SATA is compatible with the faster throughput, otherwise the drive would not function...


I think the drive comes configured for 3.0GBs and I believe you can change the setting with the Hatichi tool.


----------



## mhalladay

richsadams said:


> Hi Mike. Glad to hear things are about normal and the wife didn't indicate that the sofa was your new home.
> 
> It sounds like you didn't do the Supersize step with winMFS. That would have put you at 157 HD hours. Not a big deal. You can do it any time without impacting anything else.
> 
> Enjoy!


 - I thought that I had done that to the new drive; is it possible that I 'Supersize'd the original 160GB TivoHD drive when I made the menu selection in winMFS? Should I have checked which drive was 'selected' prior to running Supersize? Thanks, again, for all the info....


----------



## bkdtv

mhalladay said:


> - I thought that I had done that to the new drive; is it possible that I 'Supersize'd the original 160GB TivoHD drive when I made the menu selection in winMFS? Should I have checked which drive was 'selected' prior to running Supersize? Thanks, again, for all the info....


If you did the upgrade with both drives connected at the same time, then yes, you had to select the destination drive (as per step #16 in the instructions) before doing Supersize.


----------



## mhalladay

bkdtv said:


> If you did the upgrade with both drives connected at the same time, then yes, you had to select the destination drive (as per step #16 in the instructions) before doing Supersize.


Thanks; that's exactly what happened :up: - I believe my haste in wanting to get back to stable operations with just the internal drive upgrade resulted in missing step #16... and I'm usually one who does follow directions well!

One last question (I hope..): is there any problem that I've created with the 160GB original TivoHD drive by Supersizing it; or is it still viable to use if necessary to re-run winMFS & copy from it to create a new upgraded drive - or if warrenty service is required?

Mike H.


----------



## ChickenCheese

Well, I ended up going with the WD 1TB harddrive that recommended on the FAQ for my Series 3. I ordered it from Amazon and hopefully it should be here by the weekend. Thanks for everyones help with this. I'll let you know how it goes!


----------



## GarKar

I Just ordered a WD10EVCS ($112 w/ship) and downloaded WinMFS Beta 9.3. This is a fairly new update. Have recent upgraders used this WinMFS version successfully? I have a Series 3.


----------



## txporter

GarKar said:


> I Just ordered a WD10EVCS ($112 w/ship) and downloaded WinMFS Beta 9.3. This is a fairly new update. Have recent upgraders used this WinMFS version successfully?


Yes, I used it to marry an external esata drive (WD10EVCS) to my 1TB system (WD10EACS) at the beginning of the month. No problems.

Jason


----------



## bareyb

GarKar said:


> I Just ordered a WD10EVCS ($112 w/ship) and downloaded WinMFS Beta 9.3. This is a fairly new update. Have recent upgraders used this WinMFS version successfully? I have a Series 3.


I used it and it worked perfectly. Couldn't be simpler if you follow the FAQ at the top of this thread. :up:


----------



## slyone

I just ordered 1 of those WD DVR Expanders (500GB) is this a good choice? Do I simply plug and play? Thanks..


----------



## greg_burns

slyone said:


> I just ordered 1 of those WD DVR Expanders (500GB) is this a good choice? Do I simply plug and play? Thanks..


Not the best bang for the buck, but it is plug and play.


----------



## slyone

Thanks Greg, one day I may open them up and install bigger drives.... I know I should probably have backups made too just in case of a hd failure...


----------



## richsadams

GarKar said:


> I Just ordered a WD10EVCS ($112 w/ship) and downloaded WinMFS Beta 9.3. This is a fairly new update. Have recent upgraders used this WinMFS version successfully? I have a Series 3.


I used winMFS 9.3 to swap out a WD10EACS for a WD10EVCS last month and it worked perfectly. :up:


----------



## ChickenCheese

Thanks to everyone's help here and the great FAQ, I was able to upgrade my Series 3 last night to a WD10EVCS. It's now showing as 157 HD hours  

Everything was really easy to follow. The only trouble I had was putting a couple screws back. My sausage like fingers had trouble getting in a few tight spots to thread them!

Maybe the only other suggestion would be to clarify the FAQ where it talks about backing up. There were three choices for backup, and I kinda guessed that it was the top one (TiVo truncated, or something like that). Now, this could just be me being a novice at upgrading TiVos. Anyway, thanks again!


----------



## philwojo

I would agree with ChickenCheese. I also did this last night and upgraded a TivoHD to a 1TB WD10EVCS using the 9.3 WinMFS and the backup steps could be slightly clarified for the novices like me out there. 

I am comfortable doing work like this, but don't want to brick my TIVO by messing something up. I know it was only a backup, but would still be nice to have just that little bit more detail in it. I actually did all 3 backup's but the "Truncated" took the longest by far.

The only thing I don't have it showing 157 hours now, only 142. I followed all the steps, but I did do a complete backup including shows to the new drive, not sure if that made any difference. I did follow the correct procedure for that. 

Phil


----------



## bkdtv

ChickenCheese said:


> Maybe the only other suggestion would be to clarify the FAQ where it talks about backing up. There were three choices for backup, and I kinda guess that it was the top one (TiVo truncated, or something like that). Now, this could just be me being a novice at upgrading TiVos. Anyway, thanks again!


Done.


----------



## philwojo

Dang your fast, and thanks!!


----------



## getgray

Hi guys:

I have a Segate in a Antec MX-1 enclosure. Been in service sin 10/07. I got the hardware recommended in this thread (or maybe the original one) at the time. All was well until....

I had to move my equipment and when I powered the Antec back up, the fan started misbehaving. Short story is the fan is bad. So I need to replace it. I've contacted Antec (via websorm - the only way), awaiting reply. Hopefully they will jsut send me a new fan so I can fix it we'll see. But, in the event they won't or it's too much trouble to exchange (can't let TIVO be down for a $50 part), I'll need another enclosure.

I see several to pick from nowadays. Most didn't have fans. I see the FAQ says the MX-1 is the only one tested. 

Is that still true? Is there another enclosure that people are using that works well and keeps the drive appropriately cool. Quiet is paramount. I have a S3 TIVO, I was an early adopter, on the waiting list to get it.

Thanks,
Scott


----------



## moxie1617

Don't know if you saw this yet but another member found the Antec case for $20 at Fry's.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6993631#post6993631


----------



## bareyb

getgray said:


> Hi guys:
> 
> I have a Segate in a Antec MX-1 enclosure. Been in service sin 10/07. I got the hardware recommended in this thread (or maybe the original one) at the time. All was well until....
> 
> I had to move my equipment and when I powered the Antec back up, the fan started misbehaving. Short story is the fan is bad. So I need to replace it. I've contacted Antec (via websorm - the only way), awaiting reply. Hopefully they will jsut send me a new fan so I can fix it we'll see. But, in the event they won't or it's too much trouble to exchange (can't let TIVO be down for a $50 part), I'll need another enclosure.
> 
> I see several to pick from nowadays. Most didn't have fans. I see the FAQ says the MX-1 is the only one tested.
> 
> Is that still true? Is there another enclosure that people are using that works well and keeps the drive appropriately cool. Quiet is paramount. I have a S3 TIVO, I was an early adopter, on the waiting list to get it.
> 
> Thanks,
> Scott


Scott. Have you tried turning off the power using the power button (let the fan spin down completely) and then turning it back on? My fan was making noises a couple of times (after a power outage) and that seemed to fix it. Worth a try...


----------



## getgray

Yep. For now, I have it mostly disassembled, and laying at a 45deg angle on it's side. By pressing in on teh fan and getting it into this position, and restarting it a few times, I could get it to "be quiet". It's days are numbered .. Still no reply from Antec. 

Frys are sold out, but thanks for the link. Newegg has them, but they have lots of other ones, too. Just wondering if there's another to consider. I'm OK getting another MX-1. Maybe Antec will replace it. It has a 3 year warranty as I understand it. If they will write back...


----------



## bareyb

getgray said:


> Yep. For now, I have it mostly disassembled, and laying at a 45deg angle on it's side. By pressing in on teh fan and getting it into this position, and restarting it a few times, I could get it to "be quiet". It's days are numbered .. Still no reply from Antec.
> 
> Frys are sold out, but thanks for the link. Newegg has them, but they have lots of other ones, too. Just wondering if there's another to consider. I'm OK getting another MX-1. Maybe Antec will replace it. It has a 3 year warranty as I understand it. If they will write back...


FWIW, after I got my fan spinning level and quiet again, it's been fine for several months now. I'm using the same enclosure on my desktop now (I put in an internal drive so I no longer needed the external drive). So you may be okay until Antec gets around to sending you a new fan.


----------



## mhalladay

philwojo said:


> I would agree with ChickenCheese. I also did this last night and upgraded a TivoHD to a 1TB WD10EVCS using the 9.3 WinMFS and the backup steps could be slightly clarified for the novices like me out there.
> 
> I am comfortable doing work like this, but don't want to brick my TIVO by messing something up. I know it was only a backup, but would still be nice to have just that little bit more detail in it. I actually did all 3 backup's but the "Truncated" took the longest by far.
> 
> The only thing I don't have it showing 157 hours now, only 142. I followed all the steps, but I did do a complete backup including shows to the new drive, not sure if that made any difference. I did follow the correct procedure for that.
> 
> Phil


Phil - With these numbers, I'd be willing to bet that you didn't successfully "Supersize" the new drive as step #16 outlines. I had the same issue a couple of days ago, which resulted from not 'select'ing the new drive prior to running the Supersize command. I did this to the drive this morning (don't need to worry about losing any settings or data, and you can just remove the TivoHD cover to get to the connectors - don't need to pull the drive out or hook up the original drive..), and my capacity went from 142 to 157HD hours. Thanks to bkdtv for this guidance, in post #2287 above... Mike


----------



## slyone

very interesting read here guys...I'm now thinking that maybe I should not use/get the My DVR Expander and instead get a WD10EVCS. I'm past the 1 year warranty period so I don't see how Tivo support would be involved too much anymore anyways?

By doing this I would end up having a backup ready to go if ever needed it too correct? Thanks


----------



## bkdtv

slyone said:


> By doing this I would end up having a backup ready to go if ever needed it too correct? Thanks


Yes.


----------



## slyone

I sent back the dvr expander and just bought a WD10-EVCS .............why do people supersize? is it just to have the extra space? Might there be a "con" to supersizing? Thanks for all your help & wisdom sharing Rich and Bkdtv!:up:


----------



## greg_burns

slyone said:


> I sent back the dvr expander and just bought a WD10-EVCS from Provantage for the same money... now the wait..........
> why do people supersize? is it just to have the extra little space? Might there be a "con" to supersizing? Thanks for all your help & wisdom sharing Rich and Bkdtv!:up:


I thought the same about supersizing and was corrected...



DallasFlier said:


> As for saying the supersize step should isn't a big deal because it doesn't add that much capacity - well, it moves the available HD capacity from 131 hours to 144, a 13 hour difference. The baseline TiVo HD's *total* capacity is 20 hours of HD. So, I'd say 13 hours of additional FREE capacity in exchange for performing a 10 second command during the upgrade is a pretty damn good tradeoff, but that's just me.


----------



## richsadams

For quite a while the standard answer to "_What does Supersize do?_" was this:



> MFS Supersize frees up extra space reserved for storing tivoclips; the advertising videos that are downloaded.


 So not caring about that, everyone Supersized (including yours truly) and gained some extra recording space. But more recently there is a question about it affecting TiVo's video streaming capabilities. According to a discussion here and on the MFSLive Forum, there may be more to it.

At the moment I think the consensus is that it doesn't hurt to Supersize. I guess if I were to do it over again though I wouldn't Supersize now pending some more feedback on what impact it might have going forward. I don't really need the resulting extra few hours of space and you can Supersize a drive any time in the future w/o it affecting anything. Caveat emptor as they say.


----------



## txporter

Can Supersize be turned off?

Jason


----------



## ccrider2

This is a little off topic for this thread, but has anyone noticed the lack of the "Push Thumbs-UP Now to Record this Program" prompt? (I'm probably a little off on the wording) I can't remember seeing this since I put my 1TB Seagate in around Nov. I also got the 11 update shortly after.

Anyone still seeing this Prompt, or did that go away with ver. 11?

Thanks Much,
Chris


----------



## richsadams

I'm a Seagate man from way back, so I found this surprising...

Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 drives said to be failing at an alarming rate (ST31000340AS)

They aren't necessarily the best TiVo upgrade option by any means (recommended drives can be found on the first post of this thread), but fair warning to anyone thinking of using one.


----------



## ccrider2

richsadams said:


> I'm a Seagate man from way back, so I found this surprising...
> 
> Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 drives said to be failing at an alarming rate (ST31000340AS)
> 
> They aren't necessarily the best TiVo upgrade option by any means (recommended drives can be found on the first post of this thread), but fair warning to anyone thinking of using one.


Well...crap! 

I guess TiVo/ST31000340AS users better be on an UPS. Hopefully it takes a bunch of reboots before this problem occurs. I've booted mine twice since the install, (Nov. '08) the article didn't say if this is just a random thing, or happens as the drive ages. I ought to be good until the next version update, or extended power outage....I Hope! 

Thanks For The Heads-up!


----------



## slyone

richsadams said:


> I'm a Seagate man from way back, so I found this surprising...
> 
> Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 drives said to be failing at an alarming rate (ST31000340AS)
> 
> They aren't necessarily the best TiVo upgrade option by any means (recommended drives can be found on the first post of this thread), but fair warning to anyone thinking of using one.


Wow! I too went to all Seagates quite a few yrs.ago:up: I've got a couple mirrored arrays that are 320GB stock full that will be needing replacement. This WD10EVCS purchase marks the return to WD and it sounds like the very best solution for this application at an outstanding price! 


richsadams said:


> I guess if I were to do it over again though I wouldn't Supersize now pending some more feedback on what impact it might have going forward. I don't really need the resulting extra few hours of space and you can Supersize a drive any time in the future w/o it affecting anything. Caveat emptor as they say.


I think I'll pass on the SS, especially since we never ran out of existing space anyways though I would like to kinda of build a movie library of the older classics.:up:


----------



## greg_burns

ccrider2 said:


> Anyone still seeing this Prompt, or did that go away with ver. 11?


Noticed one the other day. Only certain networks seem to participate.


----------



## ccrider2

richsadams said:


> I'm a Seagate man from way back, so I found this surprising...
> 
> Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 drives said to be failing at an alarming rate (ST31000340AS)
> 
> They aren't necessarily the best TiVo upgrade option by any means (recommended drives can be found on the first post of this thread), but fair warning to anyone thinking of using one.


FYI looks like a fix was just announced in an article today here:

http://techreport.com/discussions.x/16246


----------



## Minok

I've placed my order for the ST31000533CS Seagate Pipeline HD Hard Drive (1TB) and will be upgrading my new TivoHD with that drive next week; will report on how it went, once done. 

For now the TivoHD is upgraded to the latest Tivo software, the cablecard (M) is installed and working and nothing is being recorded on it yet (the Tivo S2 DT is still serving my DVR needs till I transition after the upgrade).

Unfortunately, the only snafu so far is a Comcast problem in the Puget Sound area, where the Tivo program guide shows a bunch of HD channels that are not yet available when you tune to them (nice grey screen). But thats not relevant to the TivoHD drive upgrade.


----------



## richsadams

ccrider2 said:


> FYI looks like a fix was just announced in an article today here:
> 
> http://techreport.com/discussions.x/16246


Cool...and phew! I've been using WD's for a while now but glad that Seagate figured things out.

That's exactly the same fix/wording they had for the 1.5TB drives which displayed similar problems a couple of months ago. What a run of (unusual) bad luck for them. 

So are you planning on updating the firmware right away? It doesn't sound like it should affect anything else (recordings, settings, etc.). Let us know how it goes.


----------



## richsadams

Minok said:


> I've placed my order for the ST31000533CS Seagate Pipeline HD Hard Drive (1TB) and will be upgrading my new TivoHD with that drive next week; will report on how it went, once done.
> 
> For now the TivoHD is upgraded to the latest Tivo software, the cablecard (M) is installed and working and nothing is being recorded on it yet (the Tivo S2 DT is still serving my DVR needs till I transition after the upgrade).


Happy upgrading and keep us posted. :up:


----------



## ccrider2

richsadams said:


> Cool...and phew! I've been using WD's for a while now but glad that Seagate figured things out.
> 
> That's exactly the same fix/wording they had for the 1.5TB drives which displayed similar problems a couple of months ago. What a run of (unusual) bad luck for them.
> 
> So are you planning on updating the firmware right away? It doesn't sound like it should affect anything else (recordings, settings, etc.). Let us know how it goes.


Yes Rich....I plan to do that...When, I don't know. I've accumulated a lot of programs since I upgraded my S3 to 1TB. Before something bad happens, I need to get them transfered to the PC, edited, and moved to my NAS.

I can't seem to stop myself from recording things. 
I guess that's one disadvantage of having a larger drive.


----------



## slyone

should receive my hdd Tuesday I have 12 shows/20GB. I can't transfergot the red dohickey...wondering if I can/should transfer when doing the upgrade/backup to new hdd?, If yes..how long to do that operation?
How much space is needed on pc when performing upgrade? all my hdd's on all my machines are chuck-full...


----------



## osurpless

I am hoping to buy such a drive soon, and wanted to know if any newer ones but the DVR Expander drive work now?


----------



## slyone

osurpless said:


> I am hoping to buy such a drive soon, and wanted to know if any newer ones but the DVR Expander drive work now?


I think I was in the same place you were a week ago...I even had the dvr expander come to my door I since have decided to upgrade the internal hdd for so many reasons
1) the original hdd put away for backup:up:YEA!!
2) twice the space for the same money:up:YEA!
3) no...yet additional devices to power and support
4) I hadn't realized until reading here that the DVR Expander will only work with 1 Tivo! I was thinking I could PNP with other Tivo's...NOT!
5) gives me a reason to mess around with my stuff
I got mine at Provantage (Best Price)http://www.provantage.com/western-digital-wd10evcs~7WNDO005.htm

Also at Buy.com-http://www.buy.com/prod/western-digital-av-gp-wd10evcs-hard-drive-1tb-serial-ata-300-serial/q/loc/101/206827123.html


----------



## richsadams

osurpless said:


> I am hoping to buy such a drive soon, and wanted to know if any newer ones but the DVR Expander drive work now?


All of the info you need including recommended eSATA drives, enclosures, internal hard drives and how to upgrade using any of them can be found on the first post of this sticky thread.

That said, IIRC you have both a Series3 and a TiVo HD? If you're asking about adding an eSATA drive to the Series3, most eSATA drives will work or you can DIY (buy a bare drive, an enclosure like the recommended Antec MX-1 and put them together). Be sure to check the first post for recommended eSATA drives and why they are recommended.

If you're talking about an eSATA drive for your TiVo HD (and it sounds like you are) the 500GB WD My DVR Expander is still the only one that will work via plug and play. Anything else has to be "married" to the internal drive. Common wisdom here is that in lieu of adding anything else, it's better to simply upgrade the TiVo HD's internal hard drive.


----------



## richsadams

slyone said:


> should receive my hdd Tuesday I have 12 shows/20GB. I can't transfergot the red dohickey...wondering if I can/should transfer when doing the upgrade/backup to new hdd?, If yes..how long to do that operation?
> How much space is needed on pc when performing upgrade? all my hdd's on all my machines are chuck-full...


You could certainly copy your existing recordings to your new hard drive. Just follow the proper steps included on the first post. How long it takes depends on how you're transferring...USB, SATA, etc. USB can take a while, SATA takes much less time, but it can be done either way. My guess is no longer than two to three hours at most if USB is used.

Very little space is used on the PC during the upgrade. IIRC, something like 30MB...or was it 13MB? In any case, not that much.

It's too late now, but I completely forgot to mention another way to transfer shows between TiVos; a crossover Ethernet cable. If you can put both TiVo's near each other, using a 6' crossover cable (about $6) will work just fine and might be faster than running it through a home network. Each TiVo will show up in the respective menu just as it does on a network (because they are networked). When saving some programs before upgrading a while back I decided to do that and it worked very well. Less failure points, etc. All of the recordings transferred over quickly and I was up and running in no time.

Good luck and keep us posted! :up:


----------



## slyone

Oh that all sounds great Rich, Thanks! I guess I'll use the Dell530 w/Vista just not sure what Sata ports I even have available.
I don't know..I thought I read if doind some movie backups as well as the restore that I would need to have both hdd's connected at some point? Not a big deal I do have an usb2.0 to Sata cable/adapter if needed...only thing is..the last couple times I recall the cable/connection was becoming finicky and we all know a lost connection during this sort of process would be devastating. I'm going to be shooting hopefully for a very quick/smooth changeover like some posters have had.


----------



## richsadams

slyone said:


> Oh that all sounds great Rich, Thanks! I guess I'll use the Dell530 w/Vista just not sure what Sata ports I even have available.
> I don't know..I thought I read if doind some movie backups as well as the restore that I would need to have both hdd's connected at some point? Not a big deal I do have an usb2.0 to Sata cable/adapter if needed...only thing is..the last couple times I recall the cable/connection was becoming finicky and we all know a lost connection during this sort of process would be devastating. I'm going to be shooting hopefully for a very quick/smooth changeover like some posters have had.


Yes, if you're going to copy recordings as well as the image you would need both the new and OEM drive connected. Although I believe you can do a truncated backup of the original drive's content to your computer and then restore it to the new drive. I've never done that but others here have and can chime in. However if you have 20GB of recordings and not too much space on your computer's hard drive you might have to make some executive decisions.

According to the specs your Dell 530 Desktop has 4 SATA ports. You should be able to connect both along with your Windows hard drive at the same time; definitely the way to go. (You might have to temporarily disconnect an optical drive, etc.) If needed you can also pick up a SATA connector at most any store selling computer parts...I found them at Radio Shack for about $10 but you can probably find them for less elsewhere.

It sounds kind of complicated going in, but if you follow each step on the first post or the instructions for wimMFS at MFSLive.org it'll go a lot smoother and easier than you imagine.


----------



## FishTail74

bkdtv said:


> ...or there is an answer that should be expanded or clarified, please post.


Hi TiVo Gurus, this is an AWSOME thread! :up: It saved me a ton of time/money, and is exactly why this website was started! With that said, I do have a* proposed edit to the sticky*, based on my (limited) experience and many points of valuable advice from you guys in other threads over the last couple days.

It would be great if at the top of the post, there was a "Choice Summary" of sorts. I just purchased a TiVoHD. After reading about 80% of the sticky, and multiple side conversations/threads, have learned the following. This information is in the sticky, but for noobs like me, is very difficult (and sometimes frustrating) to realize and learn. In fact I almost bought the wrong stuff! I think this could help attract noobs to the TiVoCom. forums too.

Thanks guys for all your help, and considering my proposed sticky edit! 
FishTail 

-------------------Proposed start of "Choice Summary"--------------------
---------------------(please proof read for accuracy)-----------------------

*Choice Summary -* _This section lists a very high level summary of upgrade choices. Within each TiVo summary, the choices are listed in the order of approximate difficulty._

*Choice Summary -* TiVoHD *1) Add the official TiVo "My DVR Expander" 500 MB external - *This maintains warranty, is extremely quick and easy, and preserves all settings/passes/shows. Can only add 500MB. Cost as low as $110.
*2) Swap in a non-official TiVo internal - *This voids warranty (must open TiVo) and can preserves all settings/passes/shows on any existing internal and external drives. Can add upto 1.1 GB. Cost as low as $100.
*3) Add a non-official TiVo external - *This voids warranty (must open TiVo) and can preserves all settings/passes/shows on existing internal drive. Can add upto 2.2 GB. Cost as low as $150.​
*Choice Summary -* TiVo Series 3 
1) TBD. . .​
*Choice Summary -* TiVo Series 2 1) TBD. . .​


----------



## trussrules

FishTail74 said:


> *Choice Summary -* _This section lists a very high level summary of upgrade choices. Within each TiVo summary, the choices are listed in the order of approximate difficulty._
> 
> *Choice Summary -* TiVoHD *1) Add the official TiVo "My DVR Expander" 500 MB external - *This maintains warranty, is extremely quick and easy, and preserves all settings/passes/shows. Can only add 500MB. Cost as low as $110.
> *2) Swap in a non-official TiVo internal - *This voids warranty (must open TiVo) and can preserves all settings/passes/shows on any existing internal and external drives. Can add upto 1.1 GB. Cost as low as $100.
> *3) Add a non-official TiVo external - *This voids warranty (must open TiVo) and can preserves all settings/passes/shows on existing internal drive. Can add upto 2.2 GB. Cost as low as $150.​
> *Choice Summary -* TiVo Series 3
> 1) TBD. . .​
> *Choice Summary -* TiVo Series 2 1) TBD. . .​


If you are going to do this, there are some issues with the sizes (MB/GB should be GB/TB), and choices 2 & 3 aren't mutually exclusive, since can upgrade the internal drive and add an external drive.


----------



## FishTail74

trussrules said:


> If you are going to do this...


Am I suppose to do this edit myself? I thought I was only supose to "propose" an edit request. Here's the updated verbiage, implementing your corrections and advice. Thanks!

--------------------------------Proposed start of "Choice Summary" * VER #2 *---------------------------------
-------------------------------------(please proof read for accuracy)---------------------------------------

*Choice Summary -* _This section lists a very high level summary of upgrade choices. Within each TiVo summary, the choices are listed in the order of approximate difficulty. Note that a multiple choices (both internal and external upgrades) can be performed, even if done at separate times._

*Choice Summary -* TiVoHD *1) Add the official TiVo "My DVR Expander" 500 GB external - *This maintains warranty, is extremely quick and easy, and preserves all settings/passes/shows. Only 500GB is available. Cost as low as $110.
*2) Swap in a non-official TiVo internal - *This voids warranty (must open TiVo) and can preserves all settings/passes/shows on any existing internal and external drives. Can add upto 1.1 TB. Cost as low as $100.
*3) Add a non-official TiVo external - *This voids warranty (must open TiVo) and can preserves all settings/passes/shows on existing internal drive. Can add upto 2.2 TB. Cost as low as $150.​
*Choice Summary -* TiVo Series 3 
1) TBD. . .​
*Choice Summary -* TiVo Series 2 1) TBD. . .​


----------



## richsadams

FishTail74 said:


> Am I suppose to do this edit myself? I thought I was only supose to "propose" an edit request.


An "Executive Summary" at the top would be useful IMO. bkdtv has done an outstanding job of keeping the first post up to date and has added/subtracted content as needed; proposals and input are always welcome.

My two cents...first get the moderators to change the title of the sticky. Even though it started out as an eSATA drive thread, it has everything anyone needs to know about upgrading TiVo Series3's, TiVo HD's and HDXL's including recommended hard drives, etc. The current title often leads people to create new and unnecessary posts about internal upgrades because they skipped over the sticky. Mike? Anyone? This one change would go a long way toward improving this part of the forum's usefulness IMHO.

"*The official internal and external hard drive upgrade FAQ*" would be my proposal.

With respect to the rest I would stay away from internal HDD sizes, TiVo capacities and cost specs (at least in the summary) as those are dynamic.

Also, since this sticky is in the TiVo Series3 HDTV DVR's forum, Series2's wouldn't be included.

But a summary at the top and an updated title would be welcome I think. :up:


----------



## GarKar

Used WD10EVCS and WinMFS 9.3 beta on my Series 3. I had some minor issues. The WD drive does not have the common 4-pin power connector and requires a sata power connector. I drove to several stores looking for an adapter with no luck and finally ordered one on-line. Then I looked closer and found I already had sata power connectors on my motherboard and used them. Duh.

In Section IV of the guide, Unsupported Internal Drive Upgrades, Tivo Internal Upgrade, Preserves Settings & Recordings I got a little confused after step 15. I did receive the dialog box asking if I wanted to expand the drive and clicked yes. It expanded the drive. I was not clear on how to supersize the drive. The instructions seemed to be for someone who did not receive the dialog box.

I am deeply grateful to the author of the guide and offer my heartfelt thanks. I am enjoying the available 143 hours. For now I don't need the extra supersize hours.


----------



## Softail95

richsadams said:


> firmware right away?


I have an affected drive (not in a TiVo) and talked to Seagate. The firmware upgrade is not available yet. They said it would be out like Tuesday of this week. They are supposed to email me when it's ready.


----------



## ccrider2

richsadams said:


> Cool...and phew! I've been using WD's for a while now but glad that Seagate figured things out.......


Well... I'm beginning to believe that Seagate is still side-stepping the firmware issue. I typed in my serial number as requested on their page and it came back as not effected. Their page said the fix was for drives manufactured in Dec '08, I and bought mine in Oct '08. But if you read the complaints from other owners, some report having the issue with drives dating back to Sept '08. 
Seems they are still a little confused over there at Seagate about what's going on, and perhaps TiVo users should stay away from the Seagate

Barracuda 7200.11 
DiamondMax 22 
Barracuda ES.2 SATA
SV35

drives, till this issue is resolved.


----------



## bkdtv

GarKar said:


> In Section IV of the guide, Unsupported Internal Drive Upgrades, Tivo Internal Upgrade, Preserves Settings & Recordings I got a little confused after step 15. I did receive the dialog box asking if I wanted to expand the drive and clicked yes. It expanded the drive. I was not clear on how to supersize the drive. The instructions seemed to be for someone who did not receive the dialog box.


Can you clarify how you found step 16 confusing so I can modify the FAQ?

You still have two drives connected, so WinMFS doesn't know what drive to Supersize. That's why you have to select the destination drive with File--> Select Drive (step16) before you can enable Supersize with Tools-> MfsSuperSize -> On (step17).


----------



## dewaynehughes

I was able to use the FAQ to add a 1 TB internal and a 1 TB external drive to my TiVo HD. I purchased a Rosewill RX355-X2 eSATA enclosure from Newegg for $40 (with free shipping). It has two 50mm fans built into the sides of the case, so the drive stays cool. It has a hard power switch. It also includes an eSATA cable that works with my TiVo. 

For the internal drive, I used 1TB Western Digital AV-GP WD10EVCS Hard Drive. For the external drive, I used a 1 TB Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000 HDS721010KLA330 (0A35155).

My software version is 11.0-01-2-652, and my recording capacity is 318 HD and 2777 SD. Much better than the 20 hours it was previously


----------



## Softail95

ccrider2 said:


> I typed in my serial number as requested on their page and it came back as not effected.


Be careful. Any letters in the serial must be typed in UPPERCASE. When I typed it in lowercase, it said 'not affected', but when I typed it in uppercase, it said 'your drive IS affected".


----------



## Mindflux

I dont' see a place on that page to check for affected drives by serial #?


----------



## philwojo

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by GarKar View Post
> In Section IV of the guide, Unsupported Internal Drive Upgrades, Tivo Internal Upgrade, Preserves Settings & Recordings I got a little confused after step 15. I did receive the dialog box asking if I wanted to expand the drive and clicked yes. It expanded the drive. I was not clear on how to supersize the drive. The instructions seemed to be for someone who did not receive the dialog box.
> Can you clarify how you found step 16 confusing so I can modify the FAQ?
> 
> You still have two drives connected, so WinMFS doesn't know what drive to Supersize. That's why you have to select the destination drive with File--> Select Drive (step16) before you can enable Supersize with Tools-> MfsSuperSize -> On (step17).
> bkdtv is offline Report Post Reply With Quote


BKDTV, I think that I know what he means. I think that step could be clarified that it needs to be done even if the MFADD is auto done by WinMFS. I was confused as well and skipped over the SuperSize option my 1st time. By that I mean it was totally clear to me, doing it for the 1st time ever, that I needed to reselect the "destination" drive now. That kind of blends in to the steps, that it is changing from the "Source" drive to the "destination" drive.

After doing it once I now understand and had no problems my 2nd time. But, I can see how it blends and can be missed. Also, with the "sub" step saying if you don't get the MFSAdd to do "xxxx" that can confuse you 1st timer as well. It appears that you do the same things for MFSAdd as for Supersize, and it appears to be the same step so you can skip over it.

I understand now they are different, but again, the first run through it can get to be a little confusing.

Does that make sense??

Phil W


----------



## spellow

ok, so I have been reading, and reading, and reading some more on this thread.

i have a Tivo Series 3 unit. So I gather I can use any external esata drive, but i want to make sure I buy the best one...is this it? the green phantom, or are there better, quieter, more reliable onces?

http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop...+Hard+Drive-External+Hard+Drives&dpno=7532251

Also, I know it's a stupid question, but i just get any old esata to esata cable to hook it up? or is there some special length, or brand ya'll recommend?


----------



## richsadams

spellow said:


> ok, so I have been reading, and reading, and reading some more on this thread.
> 
> i have a Tivo Series 3 unit. So I gather I can use any external esata drive, but i want to make sure I buy the best one...is this it? the green phantom, or are there better, quieter, more reliable onces?
> 
> http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop...+Hard+Drive-External+Hard+Drives&dpno=7532251
> 
> Also, I know it's a stupid question, but i just get any old esata to esata cable to hook it up? or is there some special length, or brand ya'll recommend?


The Fantom drive is successfully being used by several members now and doesn't seem to be presenting any problems. It is not fan-cooled so should have plenty of ventilation around it as the drive is running 24/7. Other options are listed on the first post of this sticky thread.

Per the first post the recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable is less than $10.


----------



## derspiess

richsadams said:


> They aren't necessarily the best TiVo upgrade option by any means (recommended drives can be found on the first post of this thread), but fair warning to anyone thinking of using one.


Learned that the hard way last year. I bought what I thought would be a good Seagate drive-- wasn't on the recommended list, but I figured it would work just as well, since the model # looked similar. Worked fine for 4 months, then started getting a little loud. Then it completely failed a month or so later.

I went back to the original puny 160gb drive for a few months (couldn't decide what to do next) and then just last week I ordered the WD5000AVVS on the recommended list, from buy.com and installed it early one evening. Working like a champ so far. Quiet & reliable :up:

When I get my replacement from Seagate for the failed drive, I'm using it in a secondary PC


----------



## Partridge

dewaynehughes said:


> I was able to use the FAQ to add a 1 TB internal and a 1 TB external drive to my TiVo HD.


I tried to do that this morning. The internal upgrade from the stock 160GB to 1TB WD10EVCS appears to be working fine, with supersize enabled. But when I tried to use MFSadd after I selected the new internal drive as Tivo Drive A and the new external (also a 10EVCS) as Tivo Drive B. The MFSadd operation failed then and once I closed the message window I got another message indicating error #8 ... something like "nothing to add". When I rebooted the TiVo, it did not recognize the external drive (expected).

Any suggestions?


----------



## Softail95

Mindflux said:


> I dont' see a place on that page to check for affected drives by serial #?


They changed the page. Now you click on your model and then you can d/l the f/w...


----------



## Mindflux

Softail95 said:


> They changed the page. Now you click on your model and then you can d/l the f/w...


Yeah, the ES.2 drives have no firmwares. Way to go Seagate. I've got 2 RAID5 arrays that cannot just go up.


----------



## ccrider2

Softail95 said:


> Be careful. Any letters in the serial must be typed in UPPERCASE. When I typed it in lowercase, it said 'not affected', but when I typed it in uppercase, it said 'your drive IS affected".


I typed everything uppercase. Today I went to try it again to be sure, but the popup for serial number is no longer there. Looks like they changed something. Guess I'll have to pull the drive to find my firmware revision and see if I need the update.


----------



## ccrider2

Mindflux said:


> I dont' see a place on that page to check for affected drives by serial #?


Yea...looks like they changed the method. You have to click on your drive model now, and go from there. As Softail95 stated above.


----------



## jlib

richsadams said:


> An "Executive Summary" at the top would be useful IMO. bkdtv has done an outstanding job of keeping the first post up to date and has added/subtracted content as needed; proposals and input are always welcome.
> 
> My two cents...first get the moderators to change the title of the sticky. Even though it started out as an eSATA drive thread, it has everything anyone needs to know about upgrading TiVo Series3's, TiVo HD's and HDXL's including recommended hard drives, etc. The current title often leads people to create new and unnecessary posts about internal upgrades because they skipped over the sticky. Mike? Anyone? This one change would go a long way toward improving this part of the forum's usefulness IMHO.
> 
> "*The official internal and external hard drive upgrade FAQ*" would be my proposal.


The thread name change is the best idea and would clear up a lot of confusion. Lets face it, more people seem to upgrade the internal drive these days anyway.


----------



## Softail95

ccrider2 said:


> Yea...looks like they changed the method. You have to click on your drive model now, and go from there. As Softail95 stated above.


Okay... I downloaded the firmware .ISO and burned a CD and booted from it. The f/w installer *abended* saying I had the wrong disk model--even though the Seagate Drive Detect software says I have the right model and the firmware level (SD15). I fooled around with it for a little while and gave up. I have only had the drive for 12 days so I returned it to BB. I'm lucky I found out about this when I did. What a hassle. I used to swear by Seagate..... 

Edit: The f/w update download has been "temporarily taken offline as of Jan 19, 2008 8PM CST for validation." It was up for 3.5 hours.


----------



## richsadams

Softail95 said:


> I used to swear by Seagate.....


Agreed...Seagate has been my first choice for years. Although I'm using WD's a lot now. WD's QC has improved markedly over the past couple of years. Hope Seagate doesn't slide any further. Kind of like Harley and Honda trading places.


----------



## slyone

richsadams said:


> Agreed...Seagate has been my first choice for years. Although I'm using WD's a lot now. WD's QC has improved markedly over the past couple of years. Hope Seagate doesn't slide any further. Kind of like Harley and Honda trading places.


----------



## zEli173

Just completed my TiVo HD upgrade with the WD10EVCS that, for a little while, seemed to be a catastrophe. 

Everything went according to plan until I plugged the TiVo back in and it started to boot. After about twenty seconds, the screen just went to gray. I unplugged and tried anew, but again came the gray screen. Frantically now, I unplugged and repeated to the same result. I was freaking out a little; my TiVo was busted and the warranty void. There had been no problems with WinFS or anything else along the way, it was all so smooth. Too smooth in fact ... for, after thinking it through a few minutes, I realized I hadn't bothered to reconnect the SATA plug .

In the end, all is OK! I'm back up now with a 157 hours of HD capacity!


----------



## robertfruth

I think after scouring this forum over the last several days I am ready to upgrade my series 3. The plan of attack is as follows. (I will be duplicating every thing as I have two series 3 units. One is on an annual service agreement, this is the first one I will do, the other unit has a lifetime service agreement, and I will upgrade that one, after success with the 1st one.)

I have the Hitachi Deskstar HDS721010KLA330 (1 tb hardrive) and the Western Digital WD10EACS-00ZJBO (1 tb) and the Antec MX1 enclosure.

Orginally I was going to upgrade the internal and at the same time add the external drive. After reading the caution that was reported on January 10, regarding software ver. 11 with Tivo, I've decided to just upgrade the internal drive at the moment. When it has been verified that it can be done with no issues, I will add the 1tb WD drive in the Antec enclosure.

Questions at this time.

1. I have seen some ?'s regarding "supersizing", mainly regarding future software issues, upgrades, etc. Does anybody see any down side to supersizing at this time. I feel that I might as well sqeeze out all recording capacity as I can, Yet, since I plan on having a total of 2 tbs total storage in the near future, I can probably live without "supersizing" if there are any potential down side to doing so.

2. I know from reading the FAQ's that the Western Digital WD10EACS-00ZJBO is not a option for a internal upgrade to a series 3, I have yet to see that it should not be used in the MX-1 enclousure as an external drive. I already have 2 of the WD 10EACS drives, so I would hope that I can use them. If it is determined that I should just get a different drive for the external, than so be it. I can always use the WD drives that I have in some of my pc's. But as stated, I already have them and hope that I can use them and save some $$$ on buying 2 new drives.

3. While I would rather upgrade both the internal and external drive at the same time (to save time). I will wait and do them seperatly, unless I can get advice that it is acceptable to do them at the same time. Just concerned about the issues with ver 11 software on Tivo.

As you can tell, I am hesitant on doing these upgrades and want to have as much information as possible, so that I do these upgrades without any issues. 

I will be doing these upgrades useing a Gateway laptop running Vista Premium. I have already purchased two usb to esata adapters. While I know this is the slower way to go in regards to copying my current recordings, I feel it is the best option for me as I will only be copying the programs from the orginal 160 mb series 3 hard drive.

Oh, and one last question, should I still buy the SIIG esata cable when I do add the external drive, or will the cables that come with the Antec MX-1 be sufficient.

Thanks in advance for any help that I can get to these questions. Also, any imput from anybody regarding my plans will also be greatly appreciated. And last buy not least, I apologize for any and all spelling errors.


----------



## GarKar

I realize now why I was confused. I should have simply ignored the line about going to mfsadd if you didn't get the 'expand drive' dialog box. I incorrectly interpreted that as meaning I needed to go to mfsadd to supersize. When I did that, it told me I was going to write the copy again and I didn't want to do that so I closed out of that. Then I overlooked the instruction to change the drive to the newly copied destination drive before going to the 'tools', 'mfssupersize - on'. Totally my mistake, your directions are accurate. I just lost confidence because I thought I was out of sequence or something. I'm happy for now without the supersize because the 143 hours is more than sufficient. I am confident I could do the supersize in the future if necessary. Thanks again for the guide.


----------



## IRJ

I have had my TIVO HD for near 2 weeks and upgraded the firmware and installed the M-Card. Everything seems good.
I also have the requisite WD One TB HD and am ready to "do" the upgrade of the HD.

Q: I want to use "mfscopy". Does the original TIVO 160GB HD need to be attached to my PC at the SAME TIME as my new WD HD?
Or because I have no programming to transfer is it easier (for me) to transfer all the data to my pc and then to my new HD?
The latter route has some merit it it's easier than opening up the pc and attaching 2 extra drives etc etc. One at a time via an ESATA adapter would seem less challenging.

Thanks. I appreciate any advice.


----------



## richsadams

robertfruth said:


> I think after scouring this forum over the last several days I am ready to upgrade my series 3. <snip>


Welcome to the forum! My take on your questions...

1. If you're going to end up w/2TB's of recording space, do you really need those extra few hours? If not, based on the current streaming video question(s), I wouldn't bother with Supersizing right now. You can always do it later.

2. Your WD10EACS will work fine as an eSATA drive. The MX-1 is a very good enclosure choice.

3. IIRC there were a couple of comments with regard v11.0 and Seagate FAP eSATA drives (and they seem to be working despite TiVo's warning anyway). Everyone that has an eSATA drive has v11.0 now and AFAIK they are working fine. Unless someone here has evidence to the contrary you should feel comfortable marrying them during your upgrade.

4. During a short period there were problems with the OEM eSATA II cables supplied with the MX-1's. That was over a year ago and the new one's seem to be fine. For about 10 bucks, the SIIG Serial ATA external cable isn't a bad backup however.

Note that you can reduce the seek acoustic noise of the Hitachi Deskstar as well as the WD10EACS to 128 by using the AAM adjustment program of the Hitachi Feature Tool.

Is there a possibility of copying the recordings you want to keep by using MRV or a crossover Ethernet cable between your TiVo's rather than running a full backup using USB adapters with your laptop? If one or the other has enough room it could save a good deal of time.

Happy upgrading and don't be worried. As mentioned, it sounds complicated but if you follow each step carefully it is really quite simple and you'll be an expert before you know it. Enjoy!


----------



## Mindflux

richsadams said:


> Note that you can reduce the seek acoustic noise of the Hitachi Deskstar as well as the WD10EACS to 128 by using the AAM adjustment program of the Hitachi Feature Tool.


I tried to use the HFT on a non Hitachi drive the other day and it did not like it one bit. I'd suggest getting the appropriate manufacturer's tool to set the AAM for the drive if it's not a Hitachi unit.


----------



## richsadams

IRJ said:


> Q: I want to use "mfscopy". Does the original TIVO 160GB HD need to be attached to my PC at the SAME TIME as my new WD HD?
> Or because I have no programming to transfer is it easier (for me) to transfer all the data to my pc and then to my new HD?
> The latter route has some merit it it's easier than opening up the pc and attaching 2 extra drives etc etc. One at a time via an ESATA adapter would seem less challenging.
> 
> Thanks. I appreciate any advice.


If all you want to do is copy the OS image from your existing TiVo hard drive to your new hard drive, you would not need to use mfscopy. Follow Section IV, #12 "TiVo Internal Upgrade Instructions: Preserves Settings Only" on the first post of this thread.

Basically that means connecting your existing TiVo drive to youur computer, copying the image data, then connecting your new hard drive and copying it over. (There are a couple of more steps, but that's about it.) That will keep all of your cable card info, Season Passes, etc. Put your original hard drive on the shelf as a backup and you're done.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## richsadams

Mindflux said:


> I tried to use the HFT on a non Hitachi drive the other day and it did not like it one bit. I'd suggest getting the appropriate manufacturer's tool to set the AAM for the drive if it's not a Hitachi unit.


Interesting. I've used the Hitachi Feature Tool on WD drives a number of times and it worked flawlessly. What problems did you run into and with what brand and size drive?


----------



## Mindflux

richsadams said:


> Interesting. I've used the Hitachi Feature Tool on WD drives a number of times and it worked flawlessly. What problems did you run into and with what brand and size drive?


It was on a 250GB SATA Seagate 7200.11 drive. It told me the drive didn't support AAM (but I know it does, as I've set it before).


----------



## richsadams

Mindflux said:


> It was on a 250GB SATA Seagate 7200.11 drive. It told me the drive didn't support AAM (but I know it does, as I've set it before).


Due to litigation years ago Seagate was forced to officially withdraw AAM support on thier drives so Seagate drive acoustics cannot be adjusted. Seagate DB35 dedicated AV drives are recommended since they already have lowered acoustics. Some of their newer models seem to have better acoustic specs as well.

There are a couple of third-party Windows programs that can adjust the AAM (controlling I/O, primarily seek speed, and by slowing access times and lowering sequential reads) for PC's, but they do not actually change the AAM settings of the drive itself.

The Hitachi Feature Tool works fine on WD and of course Hitachi hard drives.


----------



## Mindflux

This might be of interest to people running WinMFS and don't want to reboot for the sake of running HFT.

http://www.withopf.com/tools/aam/

WinAAM (it runs in english too).. works for the hitachi drive I just tested it on. Oddly enough with HFT every time I set it to 128 (Quiet) and restarted my computer it would revert back to 254....

*Edit: after searching, it seems any ASUS board with A.I Quiet on it will revert AAM back to 254 regardless of what you set it at. I hope this didn't screw with my WD10EVCS AAM (even though it defaults to 128).


----------



## IRJ

Thanks for the tips.
I was reading through a mass of instructions on the mfslive.org site and did not see that mfslive would suit my needs.
I appreciate the guidance


----------



## richsadams

Mindflux said:


> This might be of interest to people running WinMFS and don't want to reboot for the sake of running HFT.


Hold on...no one wanting to upgrade their TiVo hard drive should use the linked software program. This thread is about upgrading TiVo's, not PC's. Following the clear and well thought out instructions on the first post of this sticky thread (in this instance, Section III, #29) or the original directions on MFSlive.org works. Nothing else is required or should be attempted.

Let's clarify a couple of things. First, setting the auto-acoustic management (AAM) of a hard drive to it's quietest level has nothing to do with winMFS. The AAM can be set before or after running winMFS (or not at all). The Hitachi Feature Tool is recommended because it has proven itself time and time again over several years by dozens if not hundreds of folks that have successfully upgraded their TiVo's by following the original instructions on this sticky thread. There's no reason to use anything else other than that or the original manufacturer's program if they have one.

Some quick research would have found that the Hitachi Feature Tool (or any other program) wouldn't work on your Seagate hard drive because Seagate hard drives do not have AAM adjustment capability.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, the linked program is a *PC software program and is NOT for TiVo.* From the web site:



> With the Acoustic Management can access the noise of a hard drive via software influence. (sic)


Meaning it changes a *PC's* hard drive activity via software commands and subsequently the acoustics. It does NOT change the actual AAM of the HDD and would be meaningless for folks upgrading their TiVo's. In fact it could actually be harmful as it appears that one would have to mount the hard drive to Windows.

No matter how well meaning, please avoid posting information unless you're fully versed in the subject matter, especially information that could do harm.


----------



## Mindflux

richsadams said:


> As I mentioned in my earlier post, the linked program is a *PC software program and is NOT for TiVo.* From the web site:
> 
> Meaning it changes a *PC's* hard drive activity via software commands and subsequently the acoustics. It does NOT change the actual AAM of the HDD and would be meaningless for folks upgrading their TiVo's. In fact it could actually be harmful as it appears that one would have to mount the hard drive to Windows.
> 
> No matter how well meaning, please avoid posting information unless you're fully versed in the subject matter, especially information that could do harm.


Wrong-o. It changes the AAM of the drive. Changing it and booting into HFT confirms this. It's just a simple way to do it without booting into HFT if you ask me. It's a piece of software you RUN on a PC, as is WinMFS and HFT.

The one thing I did not test is sticking two drives with AAM capabilities into the PC and running WinAAM. I'd assume it would have a dialog to show the drives and which to change, but it clearly detected my Seagate drive was not AAM capable. It only *prompted* to change the AAM of my *Hitachi* drive.

Did you bother to try the utility before claiming blasphemy on it?

You could have just as easily read this on the very same page as the quote you posted (which is obviously translated poorly):



winaam said:


> In new Macs (with Intel processor), you can alternatively start Windows (like BartPE) and WinAAM use. The attitude of the hard disk will be preserved, even if you then start Mac OS X.


What's that mean? It means boot into a usable Windows GUI (BartPE is a diagnostic tool/preloader in a slimmed down windows environment), use WinAAM to adjust the AAM and restart your Mac in OSX. The AAM settings are retained because it changes the AAM on the drive iteself! This isn't a program that changes the AAM on Windows Startup and only retains it as long as the program has a process running. (which, would have no effect on Mac OS X bootup)

Does this also mean you don't accept people changing their AAM with hdparm in Linux either? That changes the AAM* of the drive* but you wouldn't know if it you never tried it. MFSLive's BootCD directions specifically mention hdparm to top it off. But hey if it's not HFT it must not work, right?

If the FAQ/Sticky isn't open to new procedures and ideas then it should be locked.


----------



## richsadams

Mindflux said:


> Wrong-o. It changes the AAM of the drive. Changing it and booting into HFT confirms this. It's just a simple way to do it without booting into HFT if you ask me. It's a piece of software you RUN on a PC, as is WinMFS and HFT.
> 
> The one thing I did not test is sticking two drives with AAM capabilities into the PC and running WinAAM. I'd assume it would have a dialog to show the drives and which to change, but it clearly detected my Seagate drive was not AAM capable. It only *prompted* to chang the AAM of my *Hitachi* drive.
> 
> Did you bother to try the utility before claiming blasphemy on it?


I'm not doubting what you're saying, well, yes I am. Everything I read (in the program's broken English) indicates that it's simply a software mod program. I wouldn't touch it but others are certainly free to take the risk but outside of some minor convenience I don't know why they would.

I only get near Windows machines when absolutely necessary.  So no, for more reasons than I can count, I wouldn't try it. I've run Linux servers and used mfstools, and installed rsync and did a number of other hacks on Series1's and beyond almost a decade ago now so am more than comfortable with what Linux programs can and can't do.

My advice is still to stick with what's known and works...anything else...Caveat Emptor.


----------



## kasjes

I have been reading this post since I found it last week. I think the way you all help us Newbie's is really great and I for one Thank You.
It took a week to go through the whole post ( slow reader) and now that I have a series 3 and have purchased an external HD 1TB that was prepared for me before finding the post. I have one (maybe stupid or at least naive) question for all of you behind the curtain as it were. 
I don't want to try to upgrade the internal drive until the warrantee runs out on my TiVo and am content with the space I have for now. 
If I try to upgrade at a later date can I somehow reset the external drive so that I can then marry it to the new internal drive ? 
If this was mentioned in the post and I missed it, I apologize.

I think you guys Rock !


----------



## richsadams

kasjes said:


> I have one (maybe stupid or at least naive) question for all of you behind the curtain as it were.
> 
> I don't want to try to upgrade the internal drive until the warranty runs out on my TiVo and am content with the space I have for now. If I try to upgrade at a later date can I somehow reset the external drive so that I can then marry it to the new internal drive?


Buttering up forum members will get you everywhere. Plus there are no stupid questions, only stupid responses...like mine sometimes. 

The clinical answer is yes. The downside is that you will lose all of the recordings made since the external drive was connected, effectively starting anew. You could use TiVo Desktop or a couple of other programs to move anything you want to save to a computer and then back again if you're so inclined.

You'll have quite a bit of recording space with the additional 1TB eSATA drive, so that may be enough for a good long while. Enjoy!


----------



## markens

Count me as another very happy customer of the internal disk upgrade recipe in post #1! I received my WD10EVCS via FedEx late this afternoon, and had my TiVo S3 upgraded and back in service by 7pm. No glitches at all. Thanks!!


----------



## kasjes

Rich thanks so very much for your quick reply. I now feel a lot more comfortable with my setup. Does each external have it's own way of resetting or does it just clear and delete when you marry it to another internal? Just curious at this time, but would like to know in case the internal drive suddenly quits on me. 

Now that I have found the wealth of information in this post I will be returning often to learn from the Best. A little more shamefull Buttering up I know, but oh so true. 
Thanks again.
Eddie


----------



## richsadams

kasjes said:


> Does each external have it's own way of resetting or does it just clear and delete when you marry it to another internal? <snip>


Hey Eddie. An eSATA drive is "married" to the internal drive when you initially connect it. TiVo formats the drive automatically. If you replace your eSATA drive TiVo will format any new drive that's attached.

To upgrade the internal drive and add the eSATA drive follow the steps in the first post, Section III, #11 using mfsadd and both drives are good to go. Put everything back together and you're ready to watch a LOT of TV.


----------



## Joe3

Since we're on subject, a question from the gallery:

If TiVo reboots or disconnects and reboots is the marriage still on or do you have go through the marriage ceremony again?


----------



## richsadams

Joe3 said:


> Since we're on subject, a question from the gallery:
> 
> If TiVo reboots or disconnects and reboots is the marriage still on or do you have go through the marriage ceremony again?


If TiVo reboots and the eSATA drive is still connected and powered on everything will be fine.

If the eSATA drive is disconnected from TiVo for some reason (while it's on or off) a screen will appear (when TiVo is powered on) saying that it is unable to find the external drive...do you want to disconnect it, etc. If that happens and you want to keep the drive attached, you can simply unplug TiVo, plug the eSATA drive back in, power it up, plug TiVo back in and things will go back to normal. A renewal of the wedding vows is not required. 

It should probably go without saying, but TiVo (and truly all other CE components) should be on _quality _  surge protectors at minimum, a power conditioner or uninterruptible power supply (UPS) to prevent future problems. All of our TiVo's have their own UPS.


----------



## slyone

well I got my new wd10EVCS yesterday:up: but I've been replaceing head gaskets on my daughters car:down:
Hopefully I'll get that done real soon so I can do my Tivo internal upgrade


----------



## Mindflux

slyone said:


> well I got my new wd10EVCS yesterday:up: but I've been replaceing head gaskets on my daughters car:down:
> Hopefully I'll get that done real soon so I can do my Tivo internal upgrade


Did you let your daughter know the importance of coolant?


----------



## richsadams

Mindflux said:


> Did you let your daughter know the importance of coolant?


TiVo's can run a bit hot, but I don't think adding propylene glycol to one is a good idea.


----------



## ciper

slyone said:


> but I've been replaceing head gaskets on my daughters car


Let me guess, Cavalier, MkIII Supra, DOHC 2.5NA Subaru, or something with the 3.8 ford/mazda engine?


----------



## slyone

actually 99' Chev MonteCarlo 3100/sfi w got a couple mos.ago. I did notice a little coolant under tbi area. It got much worse the past week or so, so I had to fix it...I won't do this again what a pain...I haven't done work like this in 25yrs they don't make them like they used too....next time....I'll hire someone to do it!


----------



## ciper

slyone said:


> actually 99' Chev MonteCarlo 3100/sfi
> next time....I'll hire someone to do it!


Next time don't get a Monte Carslow! Should got her a 90 Tercel


----------



## ccrider2

slyone said:


> actually 99' Chev MonteCarlo 3100/sfi w got a couple mos.ago. I did notice a little coolant under tbi area. It got much worse the past week or so, so I had to fix it...I won't do this again what a pain...I haven't done work like this in 25yrs they don't make them like they used too....next time....I'll hire someone to do it!


I don't know about you, but 25 years can have an effect on the mind and body.  
Torquing the body and scraping the knuckles....just ain't worth it.


----------



## alyssa

I'm planing on doing a internal upgrade and adding an external eSATA to my S3. I've already got a antec case & hd for the external. I'm intending to get a WD 1T WD10EVCS for the internal upgrade.
I noted, the instructions in the post One, sect 3 #10 recommend waiting until a bad install using WinMFS 11.0 & dual drives is tested more. Does anyone have more information on dual drive installs done with WinMFS vs. 11.0?

If I proceed & have a problem I assume I can simply not marry the external & still have the upgraded internal?


----------



## bkdtv

alyssa said:


> I'm planing on doing a internal upgrade and adding an external eSATA to my S3. I've already got a antec case & hd for the external. I'm intending to get a WD 1T WD10EVCS for the internal upgrade.
> 
> I noted, the instructions in the post One, sect 3 #10 recommend waiting until a bad install using WinMFS 11.0 & dual drives is tested more. Does anyone have more information on dual drive installs done with WinMFS vs. 11.0?
> 
> *If I proceed & have a problem I assume I can simply not marry the external & still have the upgraded internal?*


Yes.


----------



## BruceShultes

richsadams said:


> It should probably go without saying, but TiVo (and truly all other CE components) should be on _quality _  surge protectors at minimum, a power conditioner or uninterruptible power supply (UPS) to prevent future problems. All of our TiVo's have their own UPS.


I agree that power protection is very important.

You also want to make sure that the external drive is powered on before the Tivo so I would suggest connecting the both to the same outlet at a minimum just so you won't have problems if you blow a circuit breaker on one outlet while the other continues to operate.

As long as both the external drive and the Tivo receive power at the same time, everything seems to work. I suspect this is because the Tivo doesn't check for the external drive as soon as the boot starts.

Since I am running short of powered outlets on my UPS, I have the external drive connected to a powered one and the Tivo connected to one that only supplies surge suppression.

By the way, my Tivo is an S3. Things might be different with an HD or an HD XL.


----------



## richsadams

BruceShultes said:


> You also want to make sure that the external drive is powered on before the Tivo so I would suggest connecting the both to the same outlet at a minimum just so you won't have problems if you blow a circuit breaker on one outlet while the other continues to operate.
> By the way, my Tivo is an S3. Things might be different with an HD or an HD XL.


Good advice. :up: The same would apply to all TiVo's.


----------



## richsadams

Apricorn has released a 1.5TB version of their DVR Xpander. The fan-cooled 1TB and smaller versions are being used successfully by a number of folks here. It should work with stock Series3's via plug and pray but only time will tell. NOTE: It would NOT work via P&P with TiVo HD's or HDXL's.

IMO it's kinda spendy at $239...a bare 1.5TB drive can be had for about $130 or less on sale these days. It almost certainly has the Seagate 1.5TB hard drive inside. They have been having problems with those drives but according to this post seem to have corrected it with a new firmware update today (hopefully the Apricorn drives will have already been updated before they ship).

Engadget thinks it's ugly...but if you don't mind what others think...

Any TiVo Pioneers/Volunteers out there?


----------



## richsadams

Saaaaayyyy...when did they change the name of this thread anyway?!  : I apparently (as usual) wasn't paying attention.

It used to be: "_Official eSATA Drive Expansion: FAQ + Discussion_"

Now it's: "*Official eSATA Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ*" 

Thanks to the moderators for taking the advice of the wise forum members on this one. It should cut down on unnecessary new posts and make it much easier for newbies (and oldbies) to find info about upgrading their TiVo Series3's, TiVo HD's and TiVo HDXL's inside and out. Well done guys! :up:

And continued thanks and kudos to bkdtv for doing such a superior job of keeping the original post up to date...truly a labor of love. :up: :up:


----------



## Fofer

Thanks to you, richsadams, for being a constant beacon of help and support and good info in this thread. It's truly inspiring to see you providing so much assistance and remaining so upbeat and cheerful!


----------



## bareyb

Fofer said:


> Thanks to you, richsadams, for being a constant beacon of help and support and good info in this thread. It's truly inspiring to see you providing so much assistance and remaining so upbeat and cheerful!


+1 :up:


----------



## richsadams

Ah shucks...(kicking instep). It warms the cockles of my heart to know I've done something to give back to everyone else that's helped me here. Pay it forward and all that. Now I have to work on getting it right more often than not.


----------



## Mindflux

Ordered a WD10EVCS for my best friend in Denver. MacMall said they'd ship it overnight (per requested) and didn't. What a stinker, I wanted to help my buddy upgrade his TiVo while I was in Denver for the weekend.

By the way those drives are NICE.


----------



## IRJ

Well I followed the guide and removed my TIVO HD hard drive for the upgrade to a WD 0ne terabyter. The guide was excellent and everything went smoothly UNTIL....

I attached to my W XP (IDE driven) PC via USB to SATA and my PC could not see the HD. After trying everything I decided the connection wiring looks "iffy".

Thus I moved to another Vista/SATA PC and openend it up and attached it internally. "Well blow me down" same problem this PC did not see the HD. Neither does the mfs software see it.

Concerned that I has somehow trashed the original HD I refitted it in the TIVO and it still works fine.

Scratching my head for what "thing" I must be doing wrong I am busy this weekend , but end of next week I will retry the procedure....
Sometimes the "fun " is in the unexpected challenges rather than the final goal....


----------



## txporter

IRJ said:


> Well I followed the guide and removed my TIVO HD hard drive for the upgrade to a WD 0ne terabyter. The guide was excellent and everything went smoothly UNTIL....
> 
> I attached to my W XP (IDE driven) PC via USB to SATA and my PC could not see the HD. After trying everything I decided the connection wiring looks "iffy".
> 
> Thus I moved to another Vista/SATA PC and openend it up and attached it internally. "Well blow me down" same problem this PC did not see the HD. Neither does the mfs software see it.
> 
> Concerned that I has somehow trashed the original HD I refitted it in the TIVO and it still works fine.
> 
> Scratching my head for what "thing" I must be doing wrong I am busy this weekend , but end of next week I will retry the procedure....
> Sometimes the "fun " is in the unexpected challenges rather than the final goal....


Did you connect the power supply as well as the USB/SATA adapter to the drives? Sounds like you aren't getting the drive to spin up. What I normally do is connect the power supply to the drive, listen for it to spin up. Once it has, I connect it to a USB port on the Winbox. It should detect new hardware, install some drivers and then tell you it is ready. At that point, fire up winmfs and mount the drive.

Jason


----------



## Partridge

I tried to update the internal drive & was successful , then I tried to mfsadd an external drive and was unsuccessful, received error 8, something like "nothing to do" I used Winmfs and am running XP sp3. I have an issue where I can't boot the computer with one or both WD10EVCS attached to my internal SATA header, so I have to attach them after I boot up. I didn't think this was an issue because i was able to perform the internal upgrade without a problem...

One comment on the FAQ...I used Section III, instruction 11 to upgrade the built-in drive and add an external. I had to perform step 14 "select Tools > MFScopy before I could do step 13 designate source & destination drives. Does that mean i screwed up somewhere? The new drive is currently working fine in the TiVo & everything appeared to copy over fine...

Assuming I didn't screw up (big assumption ) on the instructions, and i have an issue with my on-board SATA controller, has anyone tried adding an external drive via USB, with the internal drive connected to the computers SATA connector? I'm thinking I could try that since it didn't work with both drives connected via SATA. I have the MX-1 case which has a USB connection, and I have lots of USB connections on my computer.

Any help/advice is welcome. I would like to try this this weekend if possible & will publish the results.

Regards,

Mark


----------



## bkdtv

Partridge said:


> One comment on the FAQ...I used Section III, instruction 11 to upgrade the built-in drive and add an external. I had to perform step 14 "select Tools > MFScopy before I could do step 13 designate source & destination drives. Does that mean i screwed up somewhere? The new drive is currently working fine in the TiVo & everything appeared to copy over fine...


I clarified the instructions, I think.

It can be difficult to get the terminology exact when you're working from memory and don't have the WinMFS screens right in front of you.

It would probably help if someone could post screenshots the next time they do an upgrade. Just hold down the ALT key and then hit the PRTSCN key on the keyboard. The open your image editor/viewer and do _Edit -> Import Clipboard_ or _File -> New from Clipboard_ and save it as a PNG for upload to the forum or a site like imageshack.us.



Partridge said:


> Assuming I didn't screw up (big assumption ) on the instructions, and i have an issue with my on-board SATA controller, has anyone tried adding an external drive via USB, with the internal drive connected to the computers SATA connector? I'm thinking I could try that since it didn't work with both drives connected via SATA. I have the MX-1 case which has a USB connection, and I have lots of USB connections on my computer.


You could do the upgrade using WinMFS with one drive connected via SATA and the other via USB. There is no requirement that says you have to use _only SATA_ or _only USB_ with the WinMFS software.


----------



## bkdtv

IRJ said:


> I attached to my W XP (IDE driven) PC via USB to SATA and my PC could not see the HD. After trying everything I decided the connection wiring looks "iffy".


Keep in mind that you won't see the drive in My Computer. My Computer only shows drives that are formatted for use with Windows. But it will show up in WinMFS, provided (a) your drive has power and (b) Windows has a driver to support your particular USB adapter.


----------



## bkdtv

I added a link for dual drive docks to the first post since some people prefer those to separate USB adapters. They are pricy.


----------



## slyone

Well I have good news and bad....Headgasket job completed and all is fine ...I just did a truncated backup with both drives attached via Sata, went extremely fast! like 5-10 min. with like 15hrs. of shows.. the bad news is I'm only showing 21 hrs. od HD....The transfer went fine but I didn't do something correctly since the drive is not reporting correctly??


----------



## bkdtv

slyone said:


> Well I have good news and bad....Headgasket job completed and all is fine ...I just did a truncated backup with both drives attached via Sata, went extremely fast! like 5-10 min. with like 15hrs. of shows.. the bad news is I'm only showing 21 hrs. od HD....The transfer went fine but I didn't do something correctly since the drive is not reporting correctly??


I assume you installed the new drive and not the old one? 

I don't know exactly what you did, but you if you have multiple drives selected in WinMFS at the same time, and do a truncated backup and restore, you may not get the option to expand.

At this point, you would do the following to enable the extra capacity on your new drive:
 Reconnect the new drive to your computer.

 Launch WinMFS by right-clicking on WinMFS.exe and selecting "Run as Administrator."

 In WinMFS, click 'Select Drive' and select the new replacement SATA drive.

 Select Tools -> Mfsadd.

 *Optional:* Select Tools-> MfsSuperSize -> On.


----------



## slyone

I did not choose "supersize" because I don't want to supersize(get the additional 13gb or whatever). I figured it would copy over everything and the Tivo would see it as the 1tb drive it is. 
I now also have the Tivo os/file on my computer..which is nice
I was thinking maybe the instructions needed updating since the winmfs was updated??
Update: Jan 22, 2009
Beta Build 9.3f & 9.3g are released.

- User is prompted "Y" or "N" to limit a partition to 1 TiB when expanding. If you have a drive smaller than 1TiB you won't get that prompt.
If you want to use a 1.5 TB or higher drive, answer "Y" so you can at least use 1.2 TB of it. As of Tivo software 11.0, linux kernel used can not
support any partition higher than 1 TiB so if you answer "N", it won't work properly in your TiVo unless you have the specially hacked linux kernel
installed that will allow it.


----------



## IRJ

txporter said:


> Did you connect the power supply as well as the USB/SATA adapter to the drives? Sounds like you aren't getting the drive to spin up. What I normally do is connect the power supply to the drive, listen for it to spin up. Once it has, I connect it to a USB port on the Winbox. It should detect new hardware, install some drivers and then tell you it is ready. At that point, fire up winmfs and mount the drive.
> 
> Jason


Yes I usd the two connectors (1) SATA and (2) Power. But you are right I did NOT hear the unit spin. On neither of my tries thru the USB/SATA (fairly convinced I have bad set of connections) and also internally in my Vista PC. In other words the same connections as IN the actual TIVO. Maybe I chose a bad power lead. I will have to track it back.

If I get the time this weekend I might delve into the internals connections.


----------



## ThAbtO

http://www.frys.com/product/5803213?site=frysecampaign

Anyone see this HD and tried it?


----------



## IRJ

bkdtv said:


> Keep in mind that you won't see the drive in My Computer. My Computer only shows drives that are formatted for use with Windows. But it will show up in WinMFS, provided (a) your drive has power and (b) Windows has a driver to support your particular USB adapter.


That's an interesting observationm re My Computer. I hadn't thought of that. But anyway the mfs program did not see it.

I guess Try Try and Try again

By the way the mfs download site said that one can choose Y or N re allowing the Drive too see above one Terabyte. I guess this is for an even larger HD drive or an extra ESATA.
Basically why would anyone ever say N? You never know what you might eventually add.


----------



## slyone

IRJ, you may have to enable your Sata port in your Bios for it?


----------



## slyone

bkdtv said:


> I assume you installed the new drive and not the old one?
> 
> If you don't follow the instructions as posted, extra steps may be necessary.
> 
> I don't know exactly what you did, but you if you have multiple drives selected in WinMFS at the same time, and do a truncated backup and restore, you may not get the option to expand.
> 
> At this point, you would need to do the following to enable the extra capacity on your new driver:
> Reconnect the new drive to your computer,
> 
> Launch WinMFS by right-clicking on WinMFS.exe and selecting "Run as Administrator."
> 
> In WinMFS, click 'Select Drive' and select the new replacement SATA drive.
> 
> Select Tools -> Mfsadd.
> 
> Select Tools-> MfsSuperSize -> On.


I'm thinking when you add a 1TB hdd you "may supersize" if you want to but it is not essential when upgrading...am I wrong?..and if I am correct, can I simply start over? I mean like formatting/wiping out what's on the new drive and simply rewrite?


----------



## bkdtv

slyone said:


> I'm thinking when you add a 1TB hdd you "may supersize" if you want to but it is not essential when upgrading...am I wrong?..and if I am correct, can I simply start over? I mean like formatting/wiping out what's on the new drive and simply rewrite?


You are correct. Supersize is not required.

That said, consider that a TivoHD XL purchased from TiVo.com has 157 HD hours. You don't get 157 HD hours with a 1TB upgrade unless you "supersize." When you don't use supersize, you are basically reserving 10% of your disk for video advertisements.

It makes sense to reserve ~10% of your space for those advertisements when you've got a stock TivoHD with a 160GB drive. But it does not make sense to reserve 100GB for those advertisements on a 1TB drive.


----------



## slyone

after an upgrade don't you check size on tivo thru settings/system info? if so then how should I proceed not wanting to supersize buy have my 1TB of space? Can I simply "do over" and it will rewrite all info or otherwise? Thanks.
Maybe I'll just try your recommendation above...


----------



## bkdtv

slyone said:


> after an upgrade don't you check size on tivo thru settings/system info? if so then how should I proceed not wanting to supersize buy have my 1TB of space? Can I simply "do over" and it will rewrite all info or otherwise? Thanks.
> Maybe I'll just try your recommendation above...


Supersize has nothing to do with using the extra space. Supersizing just stops the TiVo from reserving a oortion of your space for video advertisements.

Tools -> Mfsadd is the option that lets you take advantage of the extra space on a new drive. That option is applied automatically after you click "Yes" when TiVo asks whether you want to use the added space on the new drive. If you clicked "No," then you'll need to do Tools -> Mfsadd as a separate step.

You can start over or you can just follow the instructions in my previous post. If you don't want to use supersize, then skip step #5 in that post.


----------



## slyone

Thanks BKDTV I just did what you said and supersized and I have 157hrs HD.:up:


----------



## bkdtv

slyone said:


> Thanks BKDTV I just did what you said and supersized and I have 157hrs HD.:up:


Nice.


----------



## slyone

So now after upgrading with mfs I still have the original Tivo image/file on my computer harddrive....couldn't I just burn that to a cd...then if I had a hdd failure I could simply restore thru mfs from the file on the cd?


----------



## bareyb

slyone said:


> So now after upgrading with mfs I still have the original Tivo image/file on my computer harddrive....couldn't I just burn that to a cd...then if I had a hdd failure I could simply restore thru mfs from the file on the cd?


That's what I did. Nice peace of mind...


----------



## alyssa

I've been trying to find this info but seem to see conflicting posts. I suspect my confusion is due to historic postings.

Can a 1.5 TB HD be used as an internal hd in a S3? if so what's the capacity? Do I have to reset the partitions on the drive prior to using WinMFS? If I want to also add an external to the 1.5TB S3, can I?

bkdtv's excellent first post indicates only 1.1GB of a 1.5TB drive would be 'seen' by the tivo. I assume that's still correct, if so what's the real advantage in a 1.5TB unit? disadvantage?


----------



## richsadams

alyssa said:


> I've been trying to find this info but seem to see conflicting posts. I suspect my confusion is due to historic postings.
> 
> Can a 1.5 TB HD be used as an internal hd in a S3? if so what's the capacity? Do I have to reset the partitions on the drive prior to using WinMFS? If I want to also add an external to the 1.5TB S3, can I?
> 
> bkdtv's excellent first post indicates only 1.1GB of a 1.5TB drive would be 'seen' by the tivo. I assume that's still correct, if so what's the real advantage in a 1.5TB unit? disadvantage?


The first post is up to date and correct. Due to current partition limitations TiVo can only take advantage of 1.1TB's of a 1.5TB hard drive so there is barely any advantage in using one as an internal upgrade at this time.

winMFS sets the partitions during the upgrade.

Yes, IIRC a couple of folks here have used a 1.5TB HDD as an eSATA drive.

Section II, #14 of the first post, "What is the maximum capacity supported?" outlines maximum TiVo capacities when upgrading both internal and external hard drives.

FYI, you might want to have a look at the links in my earlier post w/regard to problems the new Seagate 1.5TB drives are experiencing.


----------



## IRJ

slyone said:


> IRJ, you may have to enable your Sata port in your Bios for it?


Now that's a thought. Hadn't crossed my mind.
I appreciate the tip


----------



## IRJ

IRJ said:


> Now that's a thought. Hadn't crossed my mind.
> I appreciate the tip


Well I went into my BIOS, but did not see the ability to make a change as you described.

I saw
1) PATA1 Controller ENABLED
2) SATA1 Controller ENABLED
3) SATA1 Controller Mode RAID (2 other choices of IDE & AHCI)

Ergo I saw no way to make the choice specifically "set 1-2"

I guess I am at the edge of my competence/knowledge re BIOS

Ooops meant to address to Slyone


----------



## alyssa

Thanks Richard. I thought the first posting was most likely up to date with regards to the post upgrade capacity. Yeah, I had seen the Seagate posting- I'd be interested in risking it if I could get an extra 450GB but not for the current 100GB of addition space.

BTW, you, greg B & bkdtv should all get Medals of Honor for the great work you all do on these forums. Truly, assets to the community.


----------



## edso

Hello,

Does adding an unsupported external drive to a Tivo/HD void the warranty since you need to remove the internal drive to marry it to the unsupported external drive? I looked around and didn't see this question addressed.
Thanks.

Found my own answer, somehow missed that the first section clearly states that it voids the warranty


----------



## slyone

IRJ said:


> Well I went into my BIOS, but did not see the ability to make a change as you described.
> 
> I saw
> 1) PATA1 Controller ENABLED
> 2) SATA1 Controller ENABLED
> 3) SATA1 Controller Mode RAID (2 other choices of IDE & AHCI)
> 
> slyone, I saw no way to make the choice specifically "set 1-2"
> 
> I guess I am at the edge of my competence/knowledge re BIOS


It was just a fleeting thought...IIRC my Dell machine that works that way.
I too have a somewhat flakey USB/Sata adapter.....If your have a newer Sata PC, disconnect the wires to your cd/dvd player/writer as Rich suggested. You can always just like the hdd hang....


----------



## slyone

I too really appreciate everyone"s input especially BDKTV and Rich! This upgrade was really so simple,quick and straight-forward! All I can say is WOW! and now I got all kinds of backup files too! I'll have to do all my machines now


----------



## richsadams

alyssa said:


> BTW, you, greg B & bkdtv should all get Medals of Honor for the great work you all do on these forums. Truly, assets to the community.


I don't know about anyone else, but I'm just along for the ride.


----------



## ciper

richsadams said:


> Due to current partition limitations TiVo can only take advantage of 1.1TB's of a 1.5TB hard drive so there is barely any advantage in using one as an internal upgrade at this time.


I think it's more than 1.1TB. My understanding was 1000gb plus whatever the stock drive size is if you use the latest version of WinMFS.


----------



## jlib

IRJ said:


> ...I saw
> 1) PATA1 Controller ENABLED
> 2) SATA1 Controller ENABLED
> 3) SATA1 Controller Mode RAID (2 other choices of IDE & AHCI)


Is it correct that you have a single boot drive in your PC and not two in RAID format? If so, then tun off your RAID controller on the second SATA port (make it IDE). If you do have two drives in your PC that are RAIDED together then don't do that.


----------



## Partridge

bkdtv said:


> You could do the upgrade using WinMFS with one drive connected via SATA and the other via USB. There is no requirement that says you have to use _only SATA_ or _only USB_ with the WinMFS software.


I did this. It worked  I have 318 hours of HD now. It should take the wife some time to fill that up. Not sure what I did wrong b4, but I did the mfsadd without removing the TiVo internal drive...had long enough power and SATA cables to reach from my desktop. Had the target external drive in the MX-1 enclosure and used the USB connection for it. No issues this time...freakishly simple!

Thanks bkdtv, you ROCK.

One other comment, when I went to do MFSadd, I got a popup window that asked if it was OK to write over Tivo drive...or something similar...I said OK and the rest as they say, is history. Sorry I didn't do a screen capture. Just wanted folks to be aware that that is a normal (expected) message.


----------



## richsadams

ciper said:


> I think it's more than 1.1TB. My understanding was 1000gb plus whatever the stock drive size is if you use the latest version of WinMFS.


I'm pretty sure you're right. I hadn't been following this thread (which you're participating in) at MFSLive.org where Spike wrote (about a TiVo HD):



> ...total size is 1024 GB + 160GB and it's about 1.2 TB


Based on that and other posts there it sounds like a Kernel issue, but might be a winMFS limitation...or both?  I couldn't locate the same info about a Series3, but the assumption would be the same results.

I guess the bottom line is that TiVo's still not able to take advantage of the full 1.5TB drives just yet.


----------



## eddieb187

I need to get my Tivo HD replaced.
Thing is, I used WinMFS to upgrade the drive to 1TB.
Can I just put the 1TB drive in my new Tivo HD?
Or should I do the upgrade from scratch?
If so do I have to "Delete Format", or is that done automatically?
Also, is it better to upgrade your Tivo HD right out of the box.
Or should I activate it and then upgrade the drive?
Thanks


----------



## richsadams

eddieb187 said:


> I need to get my Tivo HD replaced.
> Thing is, I used WinMFS to upgrade the drive to 1TB.
> Can I just put the 1TB drive in my new Tivo HD?
> Or should I do the upgrade from scratch?
> If so do I have to "Delete Format", or is that done automatically?
> Also, is it better to upgrade your Tivo HD right out of the box.
> Or should I activate it and then upgrade the drive?
> Thanks


Good questions. I don't recall anyone pulling an upgraded drive and putting it directly into a new box. The "problem" (I think) is that the TSN (TiVo Service Number) will be different on a new box.

Normally it's recommended that the new TiVo be activated, set up, current software upgraded, etc. and run for a little while to make sure everything is working properly before upgrading the hard drive. I'm almost certain that winMFS formats (re-formats) the drive so you shouldn't have to do anything extra to your 1TB drive but you might want to check w/Spike at the MFSLive forum to confirm.


----------



## slyone

I just tried watching my shows(truncated B/U) I never got any video..OH well..


----------



## jeffw_00

Hi folks - I'm new to this and although I read the first couple of pages I don't have the brain capacity to read 81 pages - a couple of dumb qns?

If I add the Approved external drive to my TivoHD (the 500GB WD My DVR Expander) ....

1) does 10&#37; of THAT drive also get allocated to Tivo-related stuff?

2) If the drive dies out of warranty, can I order an exact replacement raw drive (or maybe by then a bigger one) and replace it inside the case? (is the case openable?)

3) any reason to believe these WD drives are any less reliable than the others that people are using for internal upgrades?

4) I'm a light user, so 660GB is essentially infinity for me. What advantage to the internal 1TB drive over the 500GB external? I see they're close to the same price...
(isn't there an advantage that if the external drive dies your Tivo still works?)

THANKS!
/j


----------



## slyone

I too have a question...can I simply start over the complete process of a truncated B/U to get those original recordings? would my wd10-evcs (which is currently working fine) simply be "erased"-formatted again? Hopefully yes so I could give this another shot...TIA!


----------



## bkdtv

slyone said:


> I too have a question...can I simply start over the complete process of a truncated B/U to get those original recordings? would my wd10-evcs (which is currently working fine) simply be "erased"-formatted again? Hopefully yes so I could give this another shot...TIA!


A truncated backup does not include your recordings. If you restore a truncated backup, you'll just have the TiVo software and all your original settings, but not your recordings.

The first post has two sets of instructions:

TiVo Internal Upgrade Instructions: Preserves Settings Only

TiVo Internal Upgrade Instructions: Preserves Settings and Recordings
 It sounds like you followed #1, rather than #2. The latter does not involve the restore of a truncated backup. If you want to restore your recordings, you'd have to start over, following the instructions in #2 using the original TiVo drive.


----------



## bkdtv

eddieb187 said:


> I need to get my Tivo HD replaced.
> Thing is, I used WinMFS to upgrade the drive to 1TB.
> Can I just put the 1TB drive in my new Tivo HD?
> Or should I do the upgrade from scratch?
> If so do I have to "Delete Format", or is that done automatically?
> Also, is it better to upgrade your Tivo HD right out of the box.
> Or should I activate it and then upgrade the drive?
> Thanks


You can move the new drive into a different TiVo, but I believe you'll need to run "Clear and Delete," which will delete your existing recordings. Running "Clear and Delete" will also require that you reactivate your CableCard.



jeffw_00 said:


> If I add the Approved external drive to my TivoHD (the 500GB WD My DVR Expander) ....
> 
> 1) does 10% of THAT drive also get allocated to Tivo-related stuff?


I assume you are referring to the space reserved for video advertisements. That's only on the internal drive when you don't use MfsSuperSize. _Clarified._



jeffw_00 said:


> 2) If the [My DVR Expander] drive dies out of warranty, can I order an exact replacement raw drive (or maybe by then a bigger one) and replace it inside the case? (is the case openable?)


In theory, yes. As a practical matter, I think the answer is no. I, I don't think the make and model with same firmware is available for purchase by end-users. So I think you'd have to replace the drive.



jeffw_00 said:


> 3) any reason to believe these WD drives are any less reliable than the others that people are using for internal upgrades?


Using two drives gives you two points of failure. If either your internal or external drive goes bad, you lose all your recordings, since recordings are split across both drives.



jeffw_00 said:


> 4) I'm a light user, so 660GB is essentially infinity for me. What advantage to the internal 1TB drive over the 500GB external? I see they're close to the same price...
> (isn't there an advantage that if the external drive dies your Tivo still works?)


The 500GB external preserves your warranty and requires no real effort beyond connecting the drive and rebooting the TiVo.

A 1TB internal drive upgrade involves removing the original drive and connecting it to your computer.


----------



## jeffw_00

Thanks, but (8-})
1) anyone know definitive answer on 10&#37; of external drive?
3) I think it it as a bit of redundancy, taking down the ext. drive doesn't take down the Tivo, I think? (you may lose some programs but not use of the unit)
5) not afraid of doing the upgrade myself, but figure there's no harm in keeping in good standing with TiVo for about the same price.

thanks for the comments
i actually subsequently posted these separately to get a bit more exposure.
thanks!
/j


----------



## richsadams

jeffw_00 said:


> Hi folks - I'm new to this and although I read the first couple of pages I don't have the brain capacity to read 81 pages - a couple of dumb qns?
> 
> If I add the Approved external drive to my TivoHD (the 500GB WD My DVR Expander) ....
> 
> 1) does 10% of THAT drive also get allocated to Tivo-related stuff?
> 
> 2) If the drive dies out of warranty, can I order an exact replacement raw drive (or maybe by then a bigger one) and replace it inside the case? (is the case openable?)
> 
> 3) any reason to believe these WD drives are any less reliable than the others that people are using for internal upgrades?
> 
> 4) I'm a light user, so 660GB is essentially infinity for me. What advantage to the internal 1TB drive over the 500GB external? I see they're close to the same price...
> (isn't there an advantage that if the external drive dies your Tivo still works?)
> 
> THANKS!
> /j


Hi Jeff. First off...what a wimp...can't read all 81 pages? Sheesh! Kidding. 

Here's my take on your questions...

1. Not sure what 10% you're speaking of. When you add an eSATA drive TiVo simply sees both the internal and external as one drive. Future recordings are striped across both drives if that helps. If you're referring to "Supersizing" during the internal hard drive upgrade process, that only refers to getting a little more recording space out of the internal drive. AFAIK it does not affect an eSATA drive (which would need to be married to the internal drive during the upgrade process).

2. I suppose you could try replacing a failed My DVR Expander hard drive by opening the case (and yes, the case can be opened but it voids the warranty). IMO it wouldn't be worth it though. By then they will be even cheaper (started at $209 and about $110 or so now). Might even be a larger one by then. FWIW WD will pro-rate drives after their full replacement warranty expires.

3. The WD My DVR Expanders had some real issues early on but mostly with the supplied eSATA cables (which seems to have been resolved now). There are posts of failed drives now and then but it doesn't seem like any more than one would expect so no reason to think they are better or worse than any others.

4. The recommendation for an internal upgrade is to put the original on the shelf and if the new drive dies you can simply use the original to image a new drive or just pop it back in TiVo and be up and running again in a few minutes. So one advantage of upgrading internally is that there's one less fail point. If either drive dies your recordings are most likely lost anyway. If the eSATA drive does die, you are correct, TiVo can recover and continue to work without it. Another thing to consider is TiVo's warranty. But again, if you keep the original drive you can put it back in and return the box...just don't mention that you opened it. TiVo is aware of drive changes because capacities are logged all of the time, but AFAIK, no one has been denied a replacement if the original drive is in there when it's returned.

Hope that helps and happy upgrading!


----------



## jeffw_00

1) thanks - that's what i was referring to - was wondering if Tivo took 10&#37; of the external drive. 
2) my question referred to post warranty, but I think you answered - thanks
3) thx
4) thx - but some people say that once TiVo knows you did an upgrade they will no longer help you. 
5) something I've always wondered - can you really take the original drive off the shelf after, say, 3-4 years (and countless SW upgrades)? i mean - won't Tivo tell you "too old to upgrade", or some such?

Seems like no big advantage to internal or external. Although, since my TiVo is brandy new, I can go external -today- without voiding warranty (or any possible 'hidden' warranties later on....)
j


----------



## Rocka2

When I expanded a Tivo HD the other day I was very fullfilled and satisisfied with my results. I replaced the internal drive and added an external drive. The result was over 300 hours of recording capacity. I started to think to check the capacity of the previously upgraded units. Sure enough one of my previously expanded units has a slightly smaller capacity and they are the exact same units expanded with the exact same hard drives. I have been using these units for over six months now and they are loaded with recordings. I wonder if I can fix the problem and how do I fix it? My guess is the supersizing did not take.


----------



## txporter

Rocka2 said:


> When I expanded a Tivo HD the other day I was very fullfilled and satisisfied with my results. I replaced the internal drive and added an external drive. The result was over 300 hours of recording capacity. I started to think to check the capacity of the previously upgraded units. Sure enough one of my previously expanded units has a slightly smaller capacity and they are the exact same units expanded with the exact same hard drives. I have been using these units for over six months now and they are loaded with recordings. I wonder if I can fix the problem and how do I fix it? My guess is the supersizing did not take.


You can pull the drive and apply supersize at any time without affecting recordings.

Jason


----------



## slyone

bkdtv said:


> A truncated backup does not include your recordings. If you restore a truncated backup, you'll just have the TiVo software and all your original settings, but not your recordings.


I thought "truncated" was with recordings...



bkdtv said:


> The first post has two sets of instructions:
> 
> TiVo Internal Upgrade Instructions: Preserves Settings Only
> 
> TiVo Internal Upgrade Instructions: Preserves Settings and Recordings
> It sounds like you followed #1, rather than #2. The latter does not involve the restore of a truncated backup.


I did follow #2..in fact, I even printed them off to work directly off the paper. 


bkdtv said:


> If you want to restore your recordings, you'd have to start over, following the instructions in #2 using the original TiVo drive.


 I guess I'll try that again.
So when I do this it will automatically reformat the new drive? Thanks


----------



## jeffw_00

I have a new HD-TiVo - if I buy the external drive. can I later buy a bigger INTERNAL drive? Can the sum of the two exceed a terabyte?


----------



## bkdtv

slyone said:


> I thought "truncated" was with recordings...


You should double-check the instructions you printed out. In the first post you made to this thread a few days ago, it sounded like you followed half the instructions from _Preserve Settings Only_ and half the instructions from _Preserves Settings and Recordings_.

There is no posted set of instructions that involves (a) connecting two drives at the same time and (b) a truncated backup *and* restore.



jeffw_00 said:


> I have a new HD-TiVo - if I buy the external drive. can I later buy a bigger INTERNAL drive? Can the sum of the two exceed a terabyte?


The FAQ in the first post answers most of these questions.

The "plug and play" external drive expansion on a TiVo will not work with an upgraded internal drive. To add an external drive to an upgraded TiVo, you would need to "marry" the two with WinMFS on your computer.

You can have internal and external drives up to ~1.1TB each, for ~2.2TB total.


----------



## jeffw_00

I did try to get this from the FAQ - they didn't address upgrading INTERNAL -after- adding external (but I suppose you can always
1) remove external (from unmodified)
2) upgrade internal & add external (which requires winMFS - I get it 8-}) 

Thanks on the disk limitation - apologize if that's in the FAQ, I missed it 
/j


----------



## bkdtv

jeffw_00 said:


> I did try to get this from the FAQ - they didn't address upgrading INTERNAL -after- adding external (but I suppose you can always
> 1) remove external (from unmodified)
> 2) upgrade internal & add external


You can do that, just be aware that #2 will require you to connect both drives to your computer to "marry" them.

You may or may not be able to preserve the recordings with such an upgrade. I can't recall whether the latest version of WinMFS can copy an existing internal + external setup to a single internal drive. If someone else knows, please post.


----------



## jeffw_00

yup - got it, thanks. preserving recordings not crucial


----------



## slyone

bkdtv said:


> There is no posted set of instructions that involves (a) connecting two drives at the same time and (b) a truncated backup *and* restore.


 I guess I got it here?


richsadams said:


> Yes, if you're going to copy recordings as well as the image you would need both the new and OEM drive connected. Although I believe you can do a truncated backup of the original drive's content to your computer and then restore it to the new drive. I've never done that but others here have and can chime in. However if you have 20GB of recordings and not too much space on your computer's hard drive you might have to make some executive decisions.
> 
> According to the specs your Dell 530 Desktop has 4 SATA ports. You should be able to connect both along with your Windows hard drive at the same time; definitely the way to go. (You might have to temporarily disconnect an optical drive, etc.)
> 
> It sounds kind of complicated going in, but if you follow each step on the first post or the instructions for wimMFS at MFSLive.org it'll go a lot smoother and easier than you imagine.


----------



## bkdtv

Rich mentioned a truncated backup as an alternative method to backup the software, not another way to backup your recordings.

As long as you stick to the instructions in the first post, you'll be fine and avoid yourself unnecessary frustration.


----------



## slyone

bkdtv, I just found where both drives are connected under instructions #14-9

Shut down Windows, turn off your computer, and connect the TiVo's built-in SATA drive and your new replacement SATA drive. You can open your computer and connect both with SATA cables, or you can connect them externally using a pair of SATA->USB adapters or a dual drive dock. Both drives should be connected to your PC at the same time.


----------



## bkdtv

slyone said:


> bkdtv, I just found where both drives are connected under instructions #14-9
> 
> Shut down Windows, turn off your computer, and connect the TiVo's built-in SATA drive and your new replacement SATA drive. You can open your computer and connect both with SATA cables, or you can connect them externally using a pair of SATA->USB adapters or a dual drive dock. Both drives should be connected to your PC at the same time.


That's correct. Those are the instructions you need to follow to backup your recordings. They tell you to use Mfscopy, not a restore from a truncated backup.


----------



## bkdtv

I've added (A) and (B) to separate the internal upgrade instructions in Section V, FAQ 14. Hopefully, that will help to prevent others from accidentally mixing up the instructions from one with the other.


----------



## eddieb187

Thanks so much Rich and bkdtv.
I guess I'll just do an upgrade from scratch.
Looks like the safest way.

bkdtv,
Should I upgrade the drive in the new Tivo HD.
Or activate, upgrade the software, and then upgrade the drive?


----------



## bkdtv

eddieb187 said:


> Should I upgrade the drive in the new Tivo HD.
> Or activate, upgrade the software, and then upgrade the drive?


The order doesn't matter.

If you plan to get digital cable, I do think it's a good idea to activate your CableCards before you do an upgrade.

If you backup and replace your drive before the CableCard installation, then you'll only have the CableCard activation (pairing) information on the new drive; it won't be on the original TiVo drive or in the backup file on your computer. By activating your CableCards before the upgrade, the CableCard activation (pairing) information is stored on the original drive, as well as your saved backup file; that way, should you ever replace your new drive, your CableCards still function without the need for a service call to reactivate them.


----------



## Rocka2

txporter said:


> You can pull the drive and apply supersize at any time without affecting recordings.
> 
> Jason


Thanks.


----------



## richsadams

bkdtv said:


> Rich mentioned a truncated backup as an alternative method to backup the software, not another way to backup your recordings.


Yes, but I can see how my response would have been confusing...sorry 'bout that.


----------



## richsadams

jeffw_00 said:


> 5) something I've always wondered - can you really take the original drive off the shelf after, say, 3-4 years (and countless SW upgrades)?


Yes. Some folks here pop the original drive back in now and then to keep their software updated, but that's not necessary.

FWIW, some brand new TiVo's sit in warehouses for over a year or more (as evidenced by the version of the software they're running when they're fired up). Once they are connected to the TiVo service they automatically upgrade to the latest version. It's possible that three or four upgrades have occurred since the box was built so it's not a problem.


----------



## slyone

well, I got it all now..redid with non-supersize. besides not knowing truncated, I also found where I tripped up originally. On F&Q it states;

# In WinMFS, click 'Select Drive' and set the original TiVo drive as Source Drive A and the new internal drive replacement as Destination Drive A.

# Select Tools -> Mfscopy to copy the full contents of the old drive -- including all recordings -- to the new.

should read like this;
# In WinMFS, click 'Select Drive' and set the original TiVo drive as Drive A (Source).

# Select Tools -> Mfscopy and select the new internal drive replacement as Destination Drive A. to copy the full contents of the old drive -- including all recordings -- to the new.


----------



## alyssa

jeffw_00 said:


> yup - got it, thanks. preserving recordings not crucial


Since I'm a bit farther down the time line, let me encourage you to upgrade the internal before adding the MyDvd external. I've got two tivos, one with an stock internal & an home made external, the other tivo has a upgraded internal.

I am currently looking at upgrading my internal on the tivo with the external drive. I stand to lose all of my multiple seasons of shows which can not be transferred off my tivo due to TW's draconian CCI flag plolicy.

Another issue might be the added cost of MyDvd expander vs. building your own much larger external unit. The cost per GB is lower for a home built unit the for the MyDvd unit.

The last reason might be, since you're gonna have to crack the box to marry a homebuilt expander unit, you might as well upgrade the internal.


----------



## jeffw_00

Thanks alyssa but
1) I don't store any programming permanently on my TiVo, 
2) no plans to crack the box (except, maybe, for a backup) until after the warranties Xpire

Everyone has their priorities. I respect yours 8-}


----------



## jeffw_00

richsadams said:


> Yes. Some folks here pop the original drive back in now and then to keep their software updated, but that's not necessary.


ok thanks


----------



## bkdtv

This morning, I added a "Summary of Expansion Options" atop the first post. I also updated the FAQ entries on the use of larger drives.


----------



## jeffw_00

very clearly written - thanks.
a nit - external drive has come down to $120 (newegg)
qn - are the "hours of HD" minimum or maximum (someone somewhere mentioned a 1.2-1.5x multiplier for max range?)

thanks!
/j


----------



## bkdtv

jeffw_00 said:


> very clearly written - thanks.
> a nit - external drive has come down to $120 (newegg)
> qn - are the "hours of HD" minimum or maximum (someone somewhere mentioned a 1.2-1.5x multiplier for max range?)
> /j


The "hours of HD" is TiVo's conservative estimate. Theoretically, you could get less, but you will typically see 1.2x that, and perhaps as much as 1.5x if you do a lot of recording from movie channels.


----------



## jeffw_00

Thanks, but - why movie channels? I would expect dramas (like law and Order) to have max compression (minimal action)


----------



## richsadams

bkdtv said:


> This morning, I added a "Summary of Expansion Options" atop the first post. I also updated the FAQ entries on the use of larger drives.


Excellent work! Between your clear details of the upgrade process and Spike's programming skills, there are a lot of folks, perhaps hundreds (including yours truly), that are throughly enjoying many, many more hours of TiVo goodness. Plus we have the gift that keeps on giving when highlighting our handy work to anyone and everyone that will listen even though a few, (read: wives) may suffer some painful incidents of extended eye-rolling  ) 

Thanks very much for your continued labor of love. :up: :up: :up:


----------



## ciper

txporter said:


> You can pull the drive and apply supersize at any time without affecting recordings.


I believe there is a limitation on the timing of a SuperSize. If you supersize and then expand or backup the drive you will not be able to turn it back off. In otherwords the first step of an upgrade should be to turn supersize off and the last step would be turning it back on if you want to preserve the option to disable it.

We may want to disable it in the future if our fellow TiVo hackers can figure out how to lift the 1GB streaming buffer currently in place. With Supersize on the reserved area is limited to 10gb which may not be large enough for high quality HD movies (blue ray rips for example)


----------



## slyone

I left SS off and said no to expand(near the end of copy IIRC)but got same 21HDhrs so
I redid leaving SS off and YES to expand. Now I have my 142HDhrs. 
Thanks guys for all your support concerning this upgrade! 
Geez, looking back....it really is such an easy/simple process of upgrading the hdd
especially with mfs. :up:


----------



## bkdtv

Thanks to clarification from spike (author of WinMFS), the maximum internal / external FAQs in the first post should be correct.


----------



## Mindflux

For some future reference: I had problems setting the AAM on my drives. Apparently any main boards from ASUS with the "A.I Quiet" feature reset your drives to either their default AAM (254) or they raise it TO 254. Either way, when I set my drives to 128 via HFT and restart the computer and check HFT again to see if the settings kept they are once again at 254.

Googling about Asus and AAM lead me to the "A.I Quiet" feature being the culprit, but there's presently no way to permanently set your AAM with these boards. I'd recommend using another machine if you have one.


----------



## jeffw_00

So 12 hours after installing my WD drive, for no apparent reason, I got a message on my Tivo saying i had disconnected it. I touched nothing (connections were all tight), rebooted, and it worked. A search of the forums suggest that this can be remedied by a better cable, so I have ordered the "good" cable (SIIG CB-SA0111-S1), investing another $17 into this (sigh), and will see if the problem recurs before (or after) it arrives.
Update: the DVR Expander actually was bad, crashed mt TiVo later in the day. So I'm exchanging it as well.
but look what it did...
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7028062#post7028062


----------



## ciper

bkdtv said:


> Thanks to clarification from spike (author of WinMFS), the maximum internal / external FAQs in the first post should be correct.


Somewhere in the FAQ mention that those limits only work right when using a version of WinMFS that supports 1tb capping of partitions. IIRC the current latest version does this no matter what and the next version will have it selectable as an option but any previous versions will expand all the way and cause crashes and stuff.


----------



## bkdtv

ciper said:


> IIRC the current latest version does this no matter what and the next version will have it selectable as an option but any previous versions will expand all the way and cause crashes and stuff.


The latest version (9.3f) -- released last week -- gives you the appropriate option.

I noted this in Section V, FAQ #11, but I will clarify it elsewhere to make sure people are using the latest version.


----------



## ciper

bkdtv said:


> The latest version (9.3f) -- released last week -- gives you the appropriate option.
> 
> I noted this in Section V, FAQ #11, but I will clarify it elsewhere to make sure people are using the latest version.


Nice! I wasn't aware 9.3f was out already 

I think 9.3e does auto capping while any prior versions will expand to infinity.


----------



## alose

I just performed the upgrade with a Fantom Drive 1tb. It went very smooth, but figured I would post some pointers that might help:

Before I powered off the Tivo, I set the Tivo into standby.

I was really lucky on choosing the Fantom Drive. It has both USB and and eSATA. It has an on/off switch and the fan is very quiet. So I only needed an adapter for the tivo drive. I bought an SATA/PATA USB converter, KINGWIN|USI-2535 R, I bought it from Newegg. 

I did not find it necessary to physically remove the hard drive from the TivoHD.

I recommend connecting your drives after booting MFSLive. It will show the device name when you connect. In my case, I have a SATA HD in my notebook, so the tivo was /dev/hdb and the Fantom was /dev/hdc. Rand the mfsadd command and was all set.


----------



## jlib

alose said:


> ...Before I powered off the Tivo, I set the Tivo into standby....


Not that it makes any difference.



> I did not find it necessary to physically remove the hard drive from the TivoHD...


Sounds like a nice bonus in having a notebook computer.



> I recommend connecting your drives after booting MFSLive....


Assuming one is using USB or the USB-to-SATA converter as you did. One would not want to do that when using a desktop computer and the internal SATA connectors which are not hot-pluggable. But the point is well taken that with MFSLive it can be a little confusing which drive is which especially if Linux is alien. Hot-plugging them leaves no doubt.

Anyway, glad it went so smoothly!


----------



## richsadams

alose said:


> I just performed the upgrade with a Fantom Drive 1tb. It has an on/off switch and the fan is very quiet.


Thanks for the info and congrats! :up: As mentioned, there's no need to put TiVo into standby, it's fully off once you unplug it, but no harm done either I suppose.

BTW, if you're using the recommended Fantom drive the reason the fan is very quiet is because it doesn't have one. 

Enjoy!


----------



## alose

jlib said:


> Assuming one is using USB or the USB-to-SATA converter as you did. One would not want to do that when using a desktop computer and the internal SATA connectors which are not hot-pluggable. But the point is well taken that with MFSLive it can be a little confusing which drive is which especially if Linux is alien. Hot-plugging them leaves no doubt.
> 
> Anyway, glad it went so smoothly!


Thanks, though it should be noted that just about all SATA chipsets but Intel ICH5-8 (non-AHCI), Pacific Digital Talon (ADMA), Promise SATA SX4 will support hotplug in a desktop. Still, for those not sure, it is probably best not to attempt on a desktop.


----------



## IRJ

txporter said:


> Did you connect the power supply as well as the USB/SATA adapter to the drives? Sounds like you aren't getting the drive to spin up. What I normally do is connect the power supply to the drive, listen for it to spin up. Once it has, I connect it to a USB port on the Winbox. It should detect new hardware, install some drivers and then tell you it is ready. At that point, fire up winmfs and mount the drive.
> 
> Jason


I finally got back to attempting the upgrade once more to the One Terabyte WD HD.

Everything went quite smoothly. The problem was that the power line wires were BAD! The same wires were used to the USB to SATA adaptor so that's why it did not work either way I had tried B4.

I now had 157 HD recording hours available to me.


----------



## richsadams

IRJ said:


> I finally got back to attempting the upgrade once more to the One Terabyte WD HD.
> 
> Everything went quite smoothly. The problem was that the power line wires were BAD! The same wires were used to the USB to SATA adaptor so that's why it did not work either way I had tried B4.
> 
> I now had 157 HD recording hours available to me.


Nice...finally.  Enjoy!


----------



## GreenMonkey

A model I didn't see listed:

I replaced by (not-booting) TivoHD HDD with a drive pulled from an external Simpletech [re]drive.

The drive model is a 500GB WD5000AAVS. Googling around found it's an 8MB cache OEM version that isn't well documented. It's working fine in my TivoHD.


----------



## bkdtv

GreenMonkey said:


> A model I didn't see listed:
> 
> The drive model is a 500GB WD5000AAVS. Googling around found it's an 8MB cache OEM version that isn't well documented. It's working fine in my TivoHD.


That model was added to the first post a few months ago. It's a few entries above the WD10EVCS.


----------



## GreenMonkey

bkdtv said:


> That model was added to the first post a few months ago. It's a few entries above the WD10EVCS.


Nope. That's a WD5000*AVVS*. This one is *AAVS* .


----------



## bkdtv

GreenMonkey said:


> Nope. That's a WD5000*AVVS*. This one is *AAVS* .


You're right. My mistake.


----------



## Softail95

Anyone thinking of experimenting with an upgrade using the WD20EADS? Seems like this might be the perfect TiVo upgrade drive. Availability seems poor at the moment, though...


----------



## bkdtv

Softail95 said:


> Anyone thinking of experimenting with an upgrade using the WD20EADS? Seems like this might be the perfect TiVo upgrade drive. Availability seems poor at the moment, though...


Keep in mind that a TivoHD can use a maximum of 1.16 TB per drive. More information on capacity limitations of various models can be found under Section V in the first post.


----------



## jlib

It is all good though, especially if it permantly pushes the 1TB drives into double digit price range.


----------



## ciper

bkdtv said:


> Keep in mind that a TivoHD can use a maximum of 1.16 TB per drive. More information on capacity limitations of various models can be found under Section V in the first post.


I don't think it should be part of the normal FAQ but an image I made of a TiVoHD XL successfully ran on a TiVoHD (non XL) meaning you could potentially use a 2TB internal drive


----------



## jlib

cipher, how does your conclusion follow? The stock XL drive is in the capacity realm of the HD so nothing is demonstrated. You would need to update your XL to 2TB and then try to get that running in an HD. Then we would be impressed.


----------



## txporter

jlib said:


> cipher, how does your conclusion follow? The stock XL drive is in the capacity realm of the HD so nothing is demonstrated. You would need to update your XL to 2TB and then try to get that running in an HD. Then we would be impressed.


The TivoHD XL has a 1TB drive stock. There has been talk here and in the winmfs forums that the tivo software uses all but 3 of the partitions allowed. Since adding a drive uses 2 of the partitions, you are only allowed to add 1-1TiB partition. That means, you can have 1TB on top of the stock drive that the software was installed on. If the stock drive is 160gb, you can have ~1.16TB, 250gb = ~1.25TB and 1TB = ~2TB. That is what ciper means.

Jason


----------



## vegaspl

Note: Response by TiVo HD when trying to play (From Playlist) HD Movies on one of my Seagate "FreeAgent Pro" 750 GB External eSATA HD's..... "Searching for Authorized Content' <-or something similiar. Now strangely, now the only thing that comes up when trying to Play the movie's are the options: "would you like to delete this recording? 'Yes, Delete / No, Don't Delete'" *Neither option would allow the program to play.*

This occured after the following circumstances: I had 2 Seagate 750GB HD's eSATA connected to each of my DTV HD DVR's HR20-700. Over the past year, I have recorded over 70 HD Premium Movies not yet viewed on each of those Seagate's. along with network programming (viewed on cycle).

All worked fine until: One of my HR20-700's went down. DTV decided to replace the DVR with a HR23-700 (HR20-700's no longer available).

In any case when I disconnected the Seagate from the defective DVR and hooked it to the HR23-700 (Carefully followed exact protocol), I was temporarily excited as the complete listings of the "Playlist" appeared intact, also showing the respective available space, and the "Glowing" appeared on the HD.

I'm trying to get DTV to bring back the original HR20-700 and hope to get it working. I can assume even though the playlist appears intact that there may be a "marriage" problem.

I even tried hooking up the HD to my other HR20-700 and my HR20-100. In each case the results were identically bad.

So, in effect I have over 70 Premium HD Movies that I cannot get to play at all!:


----------



## richsadams

vegaspl said:


> Note: Response by TiVo HD when trying to play (From Playlist) HD Movies on one of my Seagate "FreeAgent Pro" 750 GB External eSATA HD's..... "Searching for Authorized Content' <-or something similiar. Now strangely, now the only thing that comes up when trying to Play the movie's are the options: "would you like to delete this recording? 'Yes, Delete / No, Don't Delete'" *Neither option would allow the program to play.*
> 
> This occured after the following circumstances: I had 2 Seagate 750GB HD's eSATA connected to each of my DTV HD DVR's HR20-700. Over the past year, I have recorded over 70 HD Premium Movies not yet viewed on each of those Seagate's. along with network programming (viewed on cycle).
> 
> All worked fine until: One of my HR20-700's went down. DTV decided to replace the DVR with a HR23-700 (HR20-700's no longer available).
> 
> In any case when I disconnected the Seagate from the defective DVR and hooked it to the HR23-700 (Carefully followed exact protocol), I was temporarily excited as the complete listings of the "Playlist" appeared intact, also showing the respective available space, and the "Glowing" appeared on the HD.
> 
> I'm trying to get DTV to bring back the original HR20-700 and hope to get it working. I can assume even though the playlist appears intact that there may be a "marriage" problem.
> 
> I even tried hooking up the HD to my other HR20-700 and my HR20-100. In each case the results were identically bad.
> 
> So, in effect I have over 70 Premium HD Movies that I cannot get to play at all!:


Sorry to hear about your problems. Your post is a bit confusing though. In the first paragraph you mention a "TiVo HD", but after that it's all about Direct TV HDTV units. 

If you have a TiVo HD and you're trying to use an eSATA drive that was connected to anything but your TiVo HD it won't work. FWIW recordings are striped across TiVo internal hard drives and eSATA drives. Moving a drive from one unit to another won't work.

Since this thread is for TiVo Series3's, TiVo HD's and TiVo HDXL's and it sounds like you have DTV TiVo's it's more-or-less OT. They are two different animals so you'll probably get more feedback and help at the DirectTV HDTV forum. Or maybe I missed something?

In any case, best of luck!


----------



## jlib

txporter said:


> ...you can have 1TB on top of the stock drive that the software was installed on. If the stock drive is 160gb, you can have ~1.16TB, 250gb = ~1.25TB and 1TB = ~2TB. That is what ciper means.


Ah, thanks for the clarification. I get it now.


----------



## Shaun P.

I did some searching on this thread, but didn't find anything quite on point, so I thought I'd ask directly.

I've got a Series 3 and the My DVR Expander connected. The S3 has been rebooting at random times over the last month, and then this past week, when it rebooted, it would give me the "External Storage Device Not Detected" screen. I checked the cable and, sure enough, the connector had cracked. So I bought a replacement cable and . . . no change, I'm stuck at the "Not Detected" screen still!

I could just disconnect the Expander, and then restart the S3 and see what happens, but I have some things on the Expander that I'm really, really loathe to give up. From the FAQ, it seems that I could make a backup of the Expander (#16) onto a new Expander, and thus preserve all the recordings, using dd or dd_rescue (which I think is only on MFSlive, and not on WinMFS, is that right?) - but I couldn't find specific instructions for doing so with an Expander (ie external drive) as opposed to an internal TiVo drive). Could someone provide me with a little guidance? I don't want to screw the Expander or the S3 up (any more than they might already be).

Thanks in advance for any help!


----------



## richsadams

Shaun P. said:


> I did some searching on this thread, but didn't find anything quite on point, so I thought I'd ask directly.
> 
> I've got a Series 3 and the My DVR Expander connected. The S3 has been rebooting at random times over the last month, and then this past week, when it rebooted, it would give me the "External Storage Device Not Detected" screen. I checked the cable and, sure enough, the connector had cracked. So I bought a replacement cable and . . . no change, I'm stuck at the "Not Detected" screen still!


How frustrating! I'm sure you have, but you might check again that your new cable is one, a good one (even purchasing a second one to be sure) and two, snugly connected at both ends...even try reversing the connections. No doubt you know, but be sure you're following the connection guidelines:

1. Power off TiVo by disconnecting the AC power cord.
2. Connect one end of the eSATA cable to the eSATA drive and the other end to TiVo.
3. Connect one end of the AC power cord to the eSATA drive and the other end to the electrical outlet.
4. Wait approximately 15 seconds for the hard drive to reach operating speed.
5. Power on TiVo by reattaching the AC power cord.
6. Follow the on-screen instructions.

If the original cable became lose during a recording it could have caused some data corruption, either on the eSATA drive or on the internal drive (or both) as they both "communicate" at all times. If that's the case, there's not much hope in saving your recordings. That said, you feasibly could try using "dd" to make an exact copy of your My DVR Expander to a new one. The challenge then is hoping that the drive inside the new one is identical in all ways to the old one as TiVo identifies eSATA drives by their full model number, i.e. WDG1S5000VN-5006JB (guessing at the suffix #). It's worth a try. Worst case is that you have a new eSATA drive anyway.

You should be able to get an RMA on the original Expander from WD if it's a year or less old...there are also reports of WD pro-rating them even if they are older.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


----------



## ciper

jlib said:


> cipher, how does your conclusion follow? The stock XL drive is in the capacity realm of the HD so nothing is demonstrated.





txporter said:


> If the stock drive is 160gb, you can have ~1.16TB, 250gb = ~1.25TB and 1TB = ~2TB. That is what ciper means.


What he said. I am 100.1% sure of the following
*The THD XL can be upgraded to a 2TB drive with even the old version of the tools. 
*The THD XL software can run on a TiVo HD.
*The stock S3/THD/THDXL images use partitions 1-13.
*The kernel bug is the only thing preventing partitions between 1TiB and 2TiB. 
*The apple partition table allows upto 16 partitions

Now, with a lot of manual labor you could create an A drive with 3TB of video storage (probably 3.1tb total) that wouldn't need a hacked kernel. I'm not sure why you would since a kernel exists with support of 2TiB partitions. The only limitation then is a few bits of legacy code in the TiVo OS. You would do this by using fsmake and converting the THD image to 32 bit MFS. The drive layout would have partitions 11,13,15 at 1TB.


----------



## vegaspl

Thanks for your quick response. My being a novice shows. The DVR's ARE DirectiVo's. I was hoping the message options which in effect are blocking me from opening up the Movies to watch, would ring a bell with one of you techies out there. I will try that other forum as you suggested.

In any case am I correct in assuming that since all those movies are listed in the Now Playing then something might be salvageable. That as versus none of the movies being there.


----------



## richsadams

vegaspl said:


> Thanks for your quick response. My being a novice shows. The DVR's ARE DirectiVo's. I was hoping the message options which in effect are blocking me from opening up the Movies to watch, would ring a bell with one of you techies out there. I will try that other forum as you suggested.
> 
> In any case am I correct in assuming that since all those movies are listed in the Now Playing then something might be salvageable. That as versus none of the movies being there.


Can't say for sure as I've never worked with one, but if TiVo uses the same concept as Series3's, TiVo HD's, etc. (and I don't know why they wouldn't) part of your movies are likely on your old DTV TiVo and the other parts are on your eSATA drive. If you can get your original box back there may be hope.

The Now Playing list, Season Passes, etc. are held in a separate partition so the recording titles may show up, but without both original drives connected the link to them would be broken.


----------



## Shaun P.

Thanks for all the suggestions!

I did not think of trying the cable the other way, but I will do that now. I also tried "kickstart 54" but nothing, just sent me into a continual reboot loop.

Just for the heck of it, I'm going to try doing an MFSCopy using WinMFS first, from the old expander to the new one, and then if that doesn't work, I'll give dd a try. Thanks again!


----------



## Shaun P.

richsadams said:


> How frustrating! I'm sure you have, but you might check again that your new cable is one, a good one (even purchasing a second one to be sure) and two, snugly connected at both ends...even try reversing the connections.


Well, no luck with a second cable, or reversing the connection, it still gave me the same issue.

So I decided to try MFScopy and then, if needed, dd_rescue. But when I hooked the old and new Expanders up to my computer, the eSATA card only recognized the new drive. It would not recognize the old one. I switched the cables, I switched the ports on the card, I switched the power supplies, I restarted the drive, I restarted the computer - nothing made a difference.

So now I wonder if the drive is OK but there's something wrong with the eSATA port on the Expander. I can hear the drive making noises - both drives sound exactly alike - so I'm reasonably convinced the drive is OK. This might also explain why the original error was "External Storage Device not Detected".

I'm going to keep trying to get it to work, if only because I don't want to lose some of those recordings - but I'm thinking I'm out of luck.

Thanks again for the help!


----------



## richsadams

Shaun P. said:


> Well, no luck with a second cable, or reversing the connection, it still gave me the same issue. <snip>


It does sound like it might be the enclosure. Now and then people report that the bridge failed so the drive may be good, but without opening up the case it's hard to tell.

Anyway, good luck with that and keep us posted!


----------



## cit1991

Just FYI. An Antex MX-1 enclosure and WD green series 1TB (WD10000CSRTL) retail bare drive work great. The original eSATA - eSATA that comes with the enclosure also works.

Fry's had the retail drive on sale for $109.


----------



## Shaun P.

richsadams said:


> It does sound like it might be the enclosure. Now and then people report that the bridge failed so the drive may be good, but without opening up the case it's hard to tell.
> 
> Anyway, good luck with that and keep us posted!


I'm thinking it must be the enclosure, because I divorced the Expander from the S3 and now I have TiVo again - just without almost all the recordings I had. I'm going to call WD whenever they are open next to get an RMA for the old Expander, and just take the new one back to the store (seeing as I never hooked it up).

Its too bad that WD makes it impossible (at least as far as I could tell) to open up the Expander's enclosure. Even if I somehow got it open though, I don't think I could have replaced the port.

Oh well - thanks again for all your help!


----------



## fljoe

I just bought a WD DVR Expander from Newegg and connected it to my new TivoHD. After going through the setup screen to prepare the expander to use with the Tivo, the TiVo rebooted and after the initial PowerUp screen another screen came up saying "Your expansion storage device has been activated for use with this DVR". However all I see after this is a blank screen. I unplugged the TivoHD box and plugged it back in again and again after the initial Powering Up screen, all I see is a blank screen. Pressing the Tivo remote has no response.

Is the DVR expander bad? or is it a bad esata cable? Anything I can check before I RMA the DVR expander?

Also is the recommended 1TB Fantom Green Drive compatible with the new TiVoHD? I am a little bit confused about being compatible with Series 3 Tivo and TivoHD. Please forgive my newbness.

Thanks,
fljoe


----------



## bkdtv

fljoe said:


> I just bought a WD DVR Expander from Newegg and connected it to my new TivoHD. After going through the setup screen to prepare the expander to use with the Tivo, the TiVo rebooted and after the initial PowerUp screen another screen came up saying "Your expansion storage device has been activated for use with this DVR". However all I see after this is a blank screen. I unplugged the TivoHD box and plugged it back in again and again after the initial Powering Up screen, all I see is a blank screen. Pressing the Tivo remote has no response.


It takes about five minutes for the TiVo to boot after you see that screen. How long did you wait?

If you're TiVo still hasn't booted completely after 10 minutes, confirm that the cable connection is as firm on both ends as possible.



fljoe said:


> Also is the recommended 1TB Fantom Green Drive compatible with the new TiVoHD? I am a little bit confused about being compatible with Series 3 Tivo and TivoHD. Please forgive my newbness.


Only the My DVR Expander works with the "plug and play" expansion on the TivoHD.


----------



## fljoe

bkdtv said:


> It takes about five minutes for the TiVo to boot after you see that screen. How long did you wait?
> 
> If you're TiVo still hasn't booted completely after 10 minutes, confirm that the cable connection is as firm on both ends as possible.
> 
> Only the My DVR Expander works with the "plug and play" expansion on the TivoHD.


I did wait more than 15 minutes and the blank white screen never went away. Looks like it might be a cable issue. I most probably will order the recommended SIGG cable.

Thanks!


----------



## bkdtv

fljoe said:


> I did wait more than 15 minutes and the blank white screen never went away. Looks like it might be a cable issue. I most probably will order the recommended SIGG cable.


If you unplug the Western Digital My DVR Expander and reboot the TiVo, do you get the drive disconnected screen?


----------



## fljoe

bkdtv said:


> If you unplug the Western Digital My DVR Expander and reboot the TiVo, do you get the drive disconnected screen?


Yes I did ... and then it asked me to disconnect the drive permanently and rebooted and everything came back once the Expander was disconnected.

So does that rule out the cable being faulty?

Thanks.


----------



## myblubu

I upgraded my internal drive in my Tivo HD to a WD 1GB drive and everything works fine but I have a question. I notice that on my recordings that are over a day or so old that there will be a little Yellow circle with an exclamation point (!) next to the title with the message:
This recording may be deleted to make room for other programs. 

There's plenty of room and none of the recordings get deleted, but it's just annoying. Is this normal? Or did I forget to change a setting or something when I upgraded the drive???


----------



## macd2

myblubu said:


> I upgraded my internal drive in my Tivo HD to a WD 1GB drive and everything works fine but I have a question. I notice that on my recordings that are over a day or so old that there will be a little Yellow circle with an exclamation point (!) next to the title with the message:
> This recording may be deleted to make room for other programs.
> 
> There's plenty of room and none of the recordings get deleted, but it's just annoying. Is this normal? Or did I forget to change a setting or something when I upgraded the drive???


What model WD drive did you use? I have a WD10EADS that I'm planning on installing this weekend.


----------



## myblubu

macd2 said:


> What model WD drive did you use? I have a WD10EADS that I'm planning on installing this weekend.


That's the one I used. Don't forget, you may want to use the Hitachi tool to set the acoustics level to make sure it's quiet.


----------



## bkdtv

myblubu said:


> I upgraded my internal drive in my Tivo HD to a WD 1GB drive and everything works fine but I have a question. I notice that on my recordings that are over a day or so old that there will be a little Yellow circle with an exclamation point (!) next to the title with the message:
> This recording may be deleted to make room for other programs.


As per FAQ #22 in the Introduction:


> The TiVo always displays the yellow exclamation point (!) 24 hours after the "keep until" time expires. You can ignore that warning, because the TiVo won't delete any programming until all space is used.


----------



## myblubu

bkdtv said:


> As per FAQ #22 in the Introduction:


Thanks! I missed that one!


----------



## richsadams

fljoe said:


> So does that rule out the cable being faulty?


Looks like bkdtv missed your question. My answer is "probably". Since TiVo recognized the drive (as evidenced by the requirement to properly remove it) it's more likely that there is a problem with the drive or the drive enclosure. Again since TiVo acknowledged the drive my money says that the eSATA hard drive itself is defective. It's fairly rare but it happens and as with most CE products, if something's going to fail, it'll usually fail right away.

The SIIG cable is still a good investment, but I'd get an RMA for your DOA drive from Newegg. bkdtv may have some other advice as well.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


----------



## lrhorer

Oh, hey! I was just browsing on NewEgg, and they have 2T drives available from Western Digital. 'A bit pricey, as one might expect, being advertised at $299, but that should come down quickly. I hope Spike, Jamie, et al can get something going on the 2T drives.


----------



## Muad'Dib

First of all I want to thank all of you who know a lot more than me about this stuff and put together this info! I am having a little trouble with this and hope someone can help.

I previously upgraded my TivoHD's internal drive with a Seagate ST31000341AS. I had no problems and the system has been working fine for over a year now.

Today I added an eSATA drive that I built and am having a couple problems. The specs on the drive are:
Antec MX-1
WD10EVCS
Siig eSATA cable

I built the drive and followed the instructions in Section IV, #10 of the FAQ. I used Winmfs and had no trouble selecting and marrying the drives. I then put the Tivo back together and here's the problem. 

It boots fine, and System Info does show the eSATA volume. The Now Playing list appears as it did before. The problems are that in System Info the Capacity line is blank, and if I try to watch anything in the Now Playing list the Tivo just hangs and never brings up the selection, requiring a reboot.

*UPDATE*
I decided to reboot the system one more time before posting this and now it works beautifully! I'll leave my previous comments in case someone has the same experience.

Thanks!
Justin


----------



## dukejunkie

BKTV, thank you so much for your perfect instructions. I am a non-techie and was pretty apprehensive about upgrading the internal drive in my Tivo HD. I finally did it a year after purchase. Being a Mac user, I had to use someone else's old Dell to complete the transfer.

I used a WD10EVCS and bought a $10 USB 2.0 to IDE/SATA cable to connect it to the computer (that was a little scary- AC adapter was real piece of junk). Uploading the TIVO hard drive somehow took about 50 minutes- probably because the computer didn't even support USB 2.0. Downloading the backup to the new drive took a little less time. All told including physical mechanics, it took 3 hours start to finish without transferring old shows. That seems like awhile but at least a lot of it was idle transfer time.

Thanks everyone for all your input and thanks Spike if you frequent these boards. Hope nothing breaks down! 157 hours ready to be filled...


----------



## egkor

Hi,

Just got 2 new TivoHD DVRs. Using them with Comcast and SA M-cards. Running for about 4 days now. Replaced Comcast's DVRs. 

Also purchased 2 new "My DVR Expander"s from Dell online.

Question: Would it be a good idea (or not) to opt for the extended warranty from Western Digital, which adds an additional 2 years (I assume parts & labor) for $24.95 (per Expander)?

Has the Expander in general proven to be operationally reliable? I understand the ESata cable connectors might be lacking. Would I likely get 2 or 3 years out of the Expanders, with care?

BTW I'm using battery-backups for them (and the Tivos) so that short-term power glitches shouldn't cause problems.

Thanks,
-Gary K


----------



## jlib

Dell sells these for $109 each and you are wondering if you should pay an additional $25? They are disposable commodity items. And any warranty isn't going to protect you from loss of content. Here is what you do. Take the $50 and stick it under your mattress. Then in 3 years take someone out to lunch. If by some minute chance one of the drives fails after the standard warranty you are only out $59. And by then you can upgrade to 1TB for the same price.  

I agree with you, a surge protecting UPS is the secret weapon for longevity especially during a stormy winter.


----------



## richsadams

jlib said:


> Then in 3 years...


IIRC WD My DVR Expanders are only warranted for one year. But I agree, no need for the extended warranty. In general if a CE product is going to fail, it'll fail right away. There are reports here of failures, but AFAIK not any more than would be expected.


----------



## egkor

jlib said:


> Here is what you do. Take the $50 and stick it under your mattress. Then in 3 years take someone out to lunch. If by some minute chance one of the drives fails after the standard warranty you are only out $59. And by then you can upgrade to 1TB for the same price.


I don't fully understand your logic, but ...

I have decided not to purchase the extended warranty. The TivoHDs have a 90 days labor/1 yr. parts warranty, the My DVR Extenders 1 yr. Both Extenders are installed and functioning. I will run them (the Extenders) for at least 12 months, or until failure (hopefully > 12 months). Then since the warranty will have expired for the TivoHDs and the Extenders, I can take the money I would have spent on the ext. warranty (for the My DVR Extenders), and use it towards new 1 TB internal hard drives.

-Gary K


----------



## richsadams

egkor said:


> <snip> Then since the warranty will have expired for the TivoHDs and the Extenders, I can take the money I would have spent on the ext. warranty (for the My DVR Extenders), and use it towards new 1 TB internal hard drives.
> 
> -Gary K


Good plan. :up:


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## lrhorer

jlib said:


> Dell sells these for $109 each and you are wondering if you should pay an additional $25? They are disposable commodity items.


Very true. More importantly, at least for me, is the fact insurance is not economical for the user on individual items. Although this is oversimplified, one should consider that companies which offer exxtended warranties do so only because they can make money doing it. For the most part, they make money not because their cost of repairing / replacing a particular unit is less than the income from the warranty, but rather because most units do not come in for warranty repair. The cost of repair is thus spread out over a large number of policies.

Well, the same thing applies to an individual if they purchase a fair amount of equipment. While the cost of repairing one unit may be much higher than the cost of purchasing a warranty on the unit, the cost of repairing all the units which actually do fail is probably less than the cost of insuring all the units. Of course, if the user does not purchase much in the way of equipment, this may not be the case, but for anyone who purchases much in the way of equipment which might be considered for warranty coverage, the cost of repairing or replacing a handful of units of more or less average cost is probably much lower then the cost of purchasing an extended warranty on all the units.


----------



## paulrangel

My Tivo had 1 more month left under warranty when it died because of a Netflix issue. I advance RMA'd the unit and decided to perform upgrades when it arrived. I ordered a WD10EVCS from amazon.com next day shipped. That would be my internal drive. And bought a Seagate Barracude 1TB from bestbuy with Antec MX-1 enclosure for the external upgrade. From start to finish it took about 40 minutes to upgrade my Tivo. It's working now but my cablecards aren't tuning in channels > ch.99. Wavecable is sending someone to check it out tomorrow.


----------



## richsadams

paulrangel said:


> My Tivo had 1 more month left under warranty when it died because of a Netflix issue. I advance RMA'd the unit and decided to perform upgrades when it arrived. I ordered a WD10EVCS from amazon.com next day shipped. That would be my internal drive. And bought a Seagate Barracude 1TB from bestbuy with Antec MX-1 enclosure for the external upgrade. From start to finish it took about 40 minutes to upgrade my Tivo. It's working now but my cablecards aren't tuning in channels > ch.99. Wavecable is sending someone to check it out tomorrow.


Nice work! Let us know how the cable card issue goes. :up:


----------



## bkdtv

paulrangel said:


> My Tivo had 1 more month left under warranty when it died because of a Netflix issue. I advance RMA'd the unit and decided to perform upgrades when it arrived. I ordered a WD10EVCS from amazon.com next day shipped. That would be my internal drive. And bought a Seagate Barracude 1TB from bestbuy with Antec MX-1 enclosure for the external upgrade. From start to finish it took about 40 minutes to upgrade my Tivo. It's working now but my cablecards aren't tuning in channels > ch.99. Wavecable is sending someone to check it out tomorrow.


Your CableCards were paired to your old TiVo, so they'll have to be paired to the new replacement TiVo. Sometimes this can be done over the phone (by you reading off numbers from the CableCard Pairing screen), but it often has to be done in person with a service call.


----------



## gmehojah

I used WinMFS today to upgrade my stock TivoHD from the 150 gb drive to the WD10EVCS recommended here and it took all of 10 minutes to do. Thanks everyone!


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## richsadams

gmehojah said:


> I used WinMFS today to upgrade my stock TivoHD from the 150 gb drive to the WD10EVCS recommended here and it took all of 10 minutes to do. Thanks everyone!


Congratulations! :up:

FWIW the original TiVo HD HDD is 160GB...but that's history for you eh?


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## gmehojah

Yeah, I forgot about that. I cannot imagine living with that small of a drive for very long. With three kids, we have to keep things on there for a while before we even have the time to get to watch it 

WinMFS is a far cry from the linux boot disk upgrades when I swapped out the drives in my Series 2 Tivo


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## Yuterald

Ok - i'm have my tivo hd and replacement hd hooked up to my computer but when i try to do the first thing (back up my hd) it gives me an "error number: 9" message and doesn't back it up. ANY help since right now my tivo is in pieces? i had a WD extender hooked up to it before i unplugged the power to the tivo and now i'm trying to back up the software and install a new drive. ANYone to help !!!! there are some shows i wanted to keep too and i planned on using the software to 'upgrade the software' in the extender so it'd stay 'married' to the tivo.


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## bkdtv

Yuterald said:


> Ok - i'm have my tivo hd and replacement hd hooked up to my computer but when i try to do the first thing (back up my hd) it gives me an "error number: 9" message and doesn't back it up. ANY help since right now my tivo is in pieces? i had a WD extender hooked up to it before i unplugged the power to the tivo and now i'm trying to back up the software and install a new drive. ANYone to help !!!! there are some shows i wanted to keep too and i planned on using the software to 'upgrade the software' in the extender so it'd stay 'married' to the tivo.


Unfortunately, you can't do that. You can't upgrade your hard drive and keep it married to your external drive. You must unmarry the external drive first on your TivoHD,

You must reinstall the drive in the TiVo, power it back up without the external drive connected, follow the on-screen instructions to unmarry the external drive (losing all recordings on it), and then you can proceed with the internal drive upgrade with WinMFS.

*Before* you disconnect your external hard drive and lose those recordings, you may want to download the recordings to your computer using TiVo Desktop. Then after the upgrade is complete, send those recordings back to your TiVo.

It is unfortunate you had to find this out the hard way. I will add this information to the FAQ so others do not run into the same problem.


----------



## Yuterald

Ok - I didn't know if anyone would be reading this thread right now so I've hooked up the expander and selected that as drive B -and then i was going to see if i could copy the saved file to just the new HD and then proceed to marry the current one as a 'new' one. Also, w/the limit being 1.2TB - does that mean that since i'm upgrading the internal to 1TB that i won't be able to use the expander anyways since that'd put it at 1.5TB?


----------



## bkdtv

Yuterald said:


> Ok - I didn't know if anyone would be reading this thread right now so I've hooked up the expander and selected that as drive B -and then i was going to see if i could copy the saved file to just the new HD and then proceed to marry the current one as a 'new' one.


If you add an external drive by marrying it with WinMFS, then I know you can restore the internal + external drive to a single, larger internal drive. But from what I understand, you *can't* do that with external drives married by the TiVo's plug-and-play expansion feature.

At this point, I'm fairly certainly your only recourse is to (1) connect the drive back up to your TiVo, (2) download as many recordings as you can to your computer, (3) disconnect and unmarry the eSATA drive, losing all the recordings split across the internal and external drives, (4) perform the drive upgrade, and (5) send the recordings back from your computer to the TiVo.


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## Yuterald

bkdtv said:


> If you add an external drive by marrying it with WinMFS, then I know you can restore the internal + external drive to a single, larger internal drive. But from what I understand, you *can't* do that with external drives married by the TiVo's plug-and-play expansion feature.


w/the limit being 1.2TB - does that mean that since i'm upgrading the internal to 1TB that i won't be able to use the expander anyways since that'd put it at 1.5TB?


----------



## bkdtv

Yuterald said:


> w/the limit being 1.2TB - does that mean that since i'm upgrading the internal to 1TB that i won't be able to use the expander anyways since that'd put it at 1.5TB?


That 1.26TB limit only applies to a single TivoHD drive. The maximum for internal + external is 2.2 TB.

You can marry your internal + external together using WinMFS to get 1.5 TB. However, before you can do that, you need to follow the steps in my previous post.

You cannot unmarry a TivoHD external drive in WinMFS; you must unmarry it using the TiVo.


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## Yuterald

bkdtv said:


> That 1.26TB limit only applies to a single TivoHD drive. The maximum for internal + external is 2.2 TB.
> 
> You can marry your internal + external together using WinMFS to get 1.5 TB. However, before you can do that, you need to follow the steps in my previous post.
> 
> You cannot unmarry a TivoHD external drive in WinMFS; you must unmarry it using the TiVo.


So after i unmarry it I would begin in Section IV Number 11?


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## bkdtv

Yuterald said:


> So after i unmarry it I would begin in Section IV Number 11?


Right.

Be aware that marrying the eSATA drive does add another potential source of failure. If that drive ever dies, you will lose all recordings on both drives.


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## Rocka2

Oh no! I was plugging something in behind my series 3 and I noticed my esata cable sort of in the way I may have bumped it and I did not want to disturb it. I pressed on the connection at the enclosure (Antec) to make sure it was not loose and it was not loose, never the less I did press in on the connection. The other end plugged into the series three was not disturbed. I did move the cable a little bit as it was ruuning right through where I was working. I have never really had a problem in the nine months I have been using this DVR. By the way I use the esata cable that is recommended in this thread I forgot the name of it. I think it is SIG something. After all of this I looked up and noticed my Tivo had rebooted. Oh no. sometime during the rebooting process a screen with green writing appeared and said a severe problem had been detected with my Tivo and that the Tivo would attempt to repair the problem but it could take up to 3 hours so I should not turn off my plasma to avoid burn in and if the Tivo is unsuccessful and it does not start I should contact customer service. Did I just ruin something? Does anyone have any idea what happened and what will happen or is there anything I should do, or should I just let it do it's thing?


----------



## bkdtv

Rocka2 said:


> Oh no. sometime during the rebooting process a screen with green writing appeared and said a severe problem had been detected with my Tivo and that the Tivo would attempt to repair the problem but it could take up to 3 hours so I should not turn off my plasma to avoid burn in and if the Tivo is unsuccessful and it does not start I should contact customer service. Did I just ruin something? Does anyone have any idea what happened and what will happen or is there anything I should do, or should I just let it do it's thing?


Just let it do its thing.

If you accidentally jiggle or unplug the eSATA cable while the TiVo is working, the TiVo will reboot. If it caused file corruption, then the TiVo should detect that during bootup and then run error recovery -- that's when you get the green screen. Your TiVo should be fine after it finishes.


----------



## Rocka2

bkdtv said:


> Just let it do its thing.
> 
> If you accidentally jiggle or unplug the eSATA cable while the TiVo is working, the TiVo will reboot. If it caused file corruption, then the TiVo should detect that during bootup and then run error recovery -- that's when you get the green screen. Your TiVo should be fine after it finishes.


Thank you bkdtv. I did let it do it's own thing and it is alright. I am very glad. Now I have learned something else. Thank you.


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## ThAbtO

Rocka2 said:


> so I should not turn off my plasma to avoid burn in


That line did not make sense.... Shouldn't it be shut off the plasma to avoid burn-in?


----------



## Rocka2

ThAbtO said:


> That line did not make sense.... Shouldn't it be shut off the plasma to avoid burn-in?


I made a mistake saying that and then decided not to correct it because I thought it would be understood what I meant, but the screen did say turn off your plasma, not not turn off your plasma. Tivo said turn off your plasma to avoid burn in because the message was going to be up there and three hours was a possible time frame for the repair so you will not risk a burn in of the image on your plasma if you do not turn it off. Sorry.


----------



## ThAbtO

Rocka2 said:


> I made a mistake saying that and then decided not to correct it because I thought it would be understood what I meant, but the screen did say turn off your plasma, not not turn off your plasma. Tivo said turn off your plasma to avoid burn in because the message was going to be up there and three hours was a possible time frame for the repair so you will not risk a burn in of the image on your plasma if you do not turn it off. Sorry.


Did it really take 3 hrs of actual time? just curious.


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## Rocka2

ThAbtO said:


> Did it really take 3 hrs of actual time? just curious.


I do not think so. I think it was less, but not one wants to mess up their their Tivo or their plasma.


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## jfh3

I have an S3 that has the original 250GB and an external eSATA drive added when the original KS 62 method came out. The 250GB drive is dying - I would like to replace it with the 750GB drive. Can I just use WinMFS to copy the 250 to the 750 and let the Tivo clean itself up when it realizes there is no longer an external drive? I know I'll lose recordings, but I don't want to have to re-pair the CableCards.


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## bkdtv

jfh3 said:


> I have an S3 that has the original 250GB and an external eSATA drive added when the original KS 62 method came out. The 250GB drive is dying - I would like to replace it with the 750GB drive. Can I just use WinMFS to copy the 250 to the 750 and let the Tivo clean itself up when it realizes there is no longer an external drive? I know I'll lose recordings, but I don't want to have to re-pair the CableCards.


You cannot upgrade the internal drive while it is paired. You must unpair the external drive before you do an internal drive upgrade.

If your S3 original drive is bad enough that it won't boot, and you've never made a backup before, then you'll want to purchase DVRUpgrade's InstantCake restore CD for $19.99. This restore CD includes a copy of the original TiVo software which it will restore to a new drive up to 1.1 TB (1.0 TiB) in size.


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## jfh3

bkdtv said:


> You cannot upgrade the internal drive while it is paired. You must unpair the external drive before you do an internal drive upgrade.
> 
> If your S3 original drive is bad enough that it won't boot, and you've never made a backup before, then you'll want to purchase DVRUpgrade's InstantCake restore CD for $19.99. This restore CD includes a copy of the original TiVo software which it will restore to a new drive up to 1.1 TB (1.0 TiB) in size.


So, if I unpair the existing eSATA drive first and then copy from the internal, I should be OK? Would I then be able to add an eSATA drive back on (don't think I want to, just want to know if it's an option)

If I go the InstaCake route, I'll lose my cable card pairing, which I'd really like to avoid.


----------



## ciper

jfh3 said:


> So, if I unpair the existing eSATA drive first and then copy from the internal, I should be OK? Would I then be able to add an eSATA drive back on (don't think I want to, just want to know if it's an option)
> 
> If I go the InstaCake route, I'll lose my cable card pairing, which I'd really like to avoid.


I think you would disable the plug and play ESATA feature once you upgrade the internal drive. The only way to add an external drive then would be to connect the internal drive and external drive to the computer and marry them.

Yes the combined cable card ID does change if you use instantcake. This is not problem on all cable systems however.


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## txporter

ciper said:


> I think you would disable the plug and play ESATA feature once you upgrade the internal drive. The only way to add an external drive then would be to connect the internal drive and external drive to the computer and marry them.
> 
> Yes the combined cable card ID does change if you use instantcake. This is not problem on all cable systems however.


It sounds like this is an original Series3, so the external drive I believe is still plug-n-play (I only have TivoHD, so not sure).

Please remember that when you divorce your external drive from your original 250gb drive, you will lose ALL of your recordings made after you added the external drive. Re-pairing with the new drive will not restore your recordings. If you want to save your recordings, you need to transfer them off before divorcing. I thought that I had read on here that it is possible to copy shows from a 2 drive system with winMFS, but I was unable to find that on mfslive. Maybe someone else can find and link that information if it exists.

Jason


----------



## richsadams

txporter said:


> It sounds like this is an original Series3, so the external drive I believe is still plug-n-play (I only have TivoHD, so not sure).


Actually no, the P&P feature is disabled after upgrading the internal drive on Series3's or TiVo HD's. Per the notes above jfh3 simply needs to properly divorce the eSATA drive (and you are correct, he can transfer any recordings he wants to keep to his PC for go-back later) follow the steps in winMFS to upgrade the internal hard drive and at the same time marry the external hard drive to it. Using the original TiVo hard drive to image the new one w/winMFS will keep all of his settings including cable cards, season passes, etc.

There are instructions for merging drives on MFSLive.org however IIRC, only if the original drive was married to the eSATA drive using WinMFS. If the TiVo menu was used then you cannot copy the recordings from an internal+external setup to a single internal drive. Since the OP used KS62 to marry the drives originally I'd be curious to know if it works, but I seriously doubt that it would. Plus the process is complicated (using the MFSLive boot CD, etc.) so I doubt if he's up for that.


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## bkdtv

The FAQ was renamed again. Some members were thrown off by eSATA in the title, not realizing that the post also contained internal drive upgrade instructions.


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## richsadams

bkdtv said:


> The FAQ was renamed again. Some members were thrown off by eSATA in the title, not realizing that the post also contained internal drive upgrade instructions.


Even better! Although I do miss the "Official" part of the title - so I kept it in my signature . Never-the-less, excellent...and continued kudos and maximum respect for all of your hard work on the original post. :up: :up: :up:


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## Yuterald

So Sunday I divorced the WD Expander from the HDTivo; took the original HD out, upgraded to 1TB and then used the software to re-marry the WD Expander to now have @257HD recordable hours and it remembered 'everything' including the MCard pairing!
I waited 2 days to post since after booting up and watching TV I notice evrery now and then the picture will 'slide' while watching it. I don't know how else to describe it but the picture will skip/slide for a fraction of a second and I don't know if it's attributed to the new drive but it's something that didn't happen before the 'upgrade'. I watched TV Sunday night and last night to see if it continued and it does. It doesn't happen at a set interval. It was really noticeable watching an NBA game. Audio remains fine - nothing noticeable. Has anyone else experienced this? I'll be watching TV again tonight to see if it continues and I'll also benchmark it with our other HDTivo that I'll be upgrading this weekend to see if it happens on that TV too.
PS- the directions in the sticky are spot-on and it was a piece of cake to do the upgrade!! Thank you!!


----------



## bkdtv

I've seen some odd behavior immediately after an eSATA drive was added. For me, it's always gone away after 24-48 hours. I would reboot your TiVo under Messages & Settings -> Restart or Reset System -> Restart the Tivo DVR.

If you continue to see the same problem throughout the week, then I suppose you might just have to unpair the Expander and settle for 157 HD hours. I would give it a few days, first, however.


----------



## richsadams

Yuterald said:


> I don't know how else to describe it but the picture will skip/slide for a fraction of a second and I don't know if it's attributed to the new drive but it's something that didn't happen before the 'upgrade'. I watched TV Sunday night and last night to see if it continued and it does. It doesn't happen at a set interval. It was really noticeable watching an NBA game. Audio remains fine - nothing noticeable. Has anyone else experienced this?


I've seen that bit of weirdness (with and w/o an expansion drive) and a number of others here have reported the same thing as well. I've had the Series3 upgraded for quite a while (1.5 years or so? Yikes!) and can't say if it was introduced then or before when I added an eSATA drive via KS62 almost two years ago (bigger yikes!). IIRC others w/stock TiVo's have mentioned it as well...seemed to show up about v9.x if memory serves.

It appears to be TiVo's way of dealing with a problematic signal or possible I/O issues. Rather than some macroblocking showing up like it used to, it seems to just jump forward a frame or two. It only happens sporadically for us and to be honest I haven't see it in quite a while now. It seemed like I was seeing it more when the local broadcasters were switching over to HD which was a mess for a while but they're getting it mostly right now, NBC being the problem child now and then.

In any case, let us know if that particular annoyance (for me at least) gets better or worse.

Now go enjoy all of that new "real estate"!


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## Yuterald

bkdtv said:


> I've seen some odd behavior immediately after an eSATA drive was added. For me, it's always gone away after 24-48 hours. I would reboot your TiVo under Messages & Settings -> Restart or Reset System -> Restart the Tivo DVR.
> 
> If you continue to see the same problem throughout the week, then I suppose you might just have to unpair the Expander and settle for 157 HD hours. I would give it a few days, first, however.


I did restart it Sunday night when I first viewed the 'video slip' but it continued.
I'll see how it's doing tonight.

I didn't know if it was the HD, ESPN, Comcast etc. I changed channels to watch something slow moving (the news) and it would happen but not as often as watching ESPN (even Sportscenter) so I'll see how she's behaving tonight.

While you're "here" - TiVo Desktop Plus: does Plus allow you to create folders on your PC that Tivo 'recognizes' as a folder versus ignoring it as it does now in the 'free' Desktop 2.7 version?


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## bkdtv

Yuterald said:


> While you're "here" - TiVo Desktop Plus: does Plus allow you to create folders on your PC that Tivo 'recognizes' as a folder versus ignoring it as it does now in the 'free' Desktop 2.7 version?


TiVo Desktop Plus allows you to automatically transfer entire folders of recordings to the TiVo. It does *not* allow you to browse subfolders on your PC.

If you want to browse subfolders on your PC, you should install pyTiVo. I added the instructions for that to the "Tips section" of the _other_ thread.


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## Yuterald

bkdtv said:


> TiVo Desktop Plus allows you to automatically transfer entire folders of recordings to the TiVo. It does *not* allow you to browse subfolders on your PC.
> 
> If you want to browse subfolders on your PC, you should install pyTiVo. I added the instructions for that to the "Tips section" of the _other_ thread.


And what, kind sir, is the other thread? I clicked on the "tips" link in your tag but nothing about pyTiVo (since accessing subfolders is what i want to do so i can categorize the DVDs i rip).


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## richsadams

Yuterald said:


> I didn't know if it was the HD, ESPN, Comcast etc. I changed channels to watch something slow moving (the news) and it would happen but not as often as watching ESPN (even Sportscenter) so I'll see how she's behaving tonight.


Now that you mention it, I remember seeing the phenomenon during fast-action sequences and I think exclusively while on HD channels. But again, nothing recently.


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## Yuterald

richsadams said:


> Now that you mention it, I remember seeing the phenomenon during fast-action sequences and I think exclusively while on HD channels. But again, nothing recently.


And Hi-Def stations are the only stations i watch (except for Robot Chicken and South Park since my Comcrap doesn't have Comedy Central in HD YET!!)


----------



## Yuterald

Welllll - last night I watched a movie streamed from Netflix so tonight I've watched some ESPN HD and I still see the 'slipping' in the video. One thing I did when I upgraded not specified in the sticky: I replaced the original drive w/a 1TB and then I re-married the WD Expander. As I discovered, prior to replacing the internal drive I had to 'un-marry' the Expander. I un-plugged the Expander (after unplugging the HDTivo power), powered up the HDTivo, it asked if I wanted to remove the Expander, I pressed the thumbs-up, rebooted, unplugged the power, and removed the internal drive. I then hooked up both the original and new drives to my computer, did the sticky, then 'married' the Expander. I then put the new drive in the Tivo, plugged the Expander into the Tivo and then powered it all up. The sticky isn't clear/doesn't discuss whether or not to first power up the HDTivo before adding the Expander again. Not sure if this has anything to do with the 'slipping' but I thought I'd mention it.
ps - it took some troubleshooting but I'm now using pyTivo too!


----------



## txporter

Yuterald said:


> Welllll - last night I watched a movie streamed from Netflix so tonight I've watched some ESPN HD and I still see the 'slipping' in the video. One thing I did when I upgraded not specified in the sticky: I replaced the original drive w/a 1TB and then I re-married the WD Expander. As I discovered, prior to replacing the internal drive I had to 'un-marry' the Expander. I un-plugged the Expander (after unplugging the HDTivo power), powered up the HDTivo, it asked if I wanted to remove the Expander, I pressed the thumbs-up, rebooted, unplugged the power, and removed the internal drive. I then hooked up both the original and new drives to my computer, did the sticky, then 'married' the Expander. I then put the new drive in the Tivo, plugged the Expander into the Tivo and then powered it all up. The sticky isn't clear/doesn't discuss whether or not to first power up the HDTivo before adding the Expander again. Not sure if this has anything to do with the 'slipping' but I thought I'd mention it.
> ps - it took some troubleshooting but I'm now using pyTivo too!


Once you have two drives married, you need to power on the external first to make sure it is spun up before plugging in the tivo. If you do not and the tivo begins the boot process, it will expect to find the external drive but not. It will ask you to connect it. If you did not see that, then you powered it up ok.

Jason


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## mr.unnatural

I decided to add an external drive to my S3 Tivo after noticing that a few of my archived recordings were being deleted. The internal drive has been upgraded from the stock 250GB drive to a 500GB and then upgraded again to a 750GB DB35 Seagate. I had a Fantom GD1000EU 1TB eSATA "Green" drive enclosure sitting on the shelf so I thought I'd give it a try.

I pulled the Tivo drive and connected the Tivo drive plus the Fantom enclosure to my main PC. I booted up from the latest version 1.4 MFSLive boot CD image and married the drives using the following command:

mfsadd -r 4 -ex /dev/sda /dev/sdb

I made sure the drives were properly configured before executing the command (sda showed 16 partitions so it was pretty clear it was the Tivo drive and sdb showed no partitions as it was either a blank drive or contained unrecognizable partitions in Linux).

I reinstalled the Tivo drive and connected the eSATA enclosure using a eSATA to eSATA cable and powered it up. When the Tivo booted up I was presented with a screen that indicated it could not find the external storage device and prompted me to divorce it from the Tivo. Since it appeared I had no other choice, I proceeded with the divorce and crossed my fingers that I wouldn't lose any recordings. Fortunately, when the Tivo booted back up, all of my recordings were intact.

However, I was then presented with a screen that said it found an external storage unit and asked me if I wanted to marry it to the Tivo? I declined at that point since I wasn't sure what was going on (it was starting to appear like a real marriage in that the spouse couldn't make up her mind what she wanted to do). I wasn't sure if the eSATA to eSATA cable I was using was a SATA I or SATA II version so I ordered a couple from Buy.com as recommended in the FAQ.

After re-reading the FAQ and looking over the older S3 external expansion FAQ, I'm not exactly clear that I performed the proper steps. On one hand it seems like the S3 will perform the plug and play function with an external storage drive whereas the Tivo HD won't, unless the internal drive is unmodified. OTOH, there are specific instructions to add the extra drive when the internal drive has already been upgraded.

With the upgraded internal drive, was I performing the correct steps to add the external drive? I'm hoping it was simply a cable issue and will give it another shot when I receive them. The Fantom drive (actually the WDC W10EVCS) is showing up in the system information screen as being attached but there is no change in storage capacity.


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## Yuterald

txporter said:


> Once you have two drives married, you need to power on the external first to make sure it is spun up before plugging in the tivo. If you do not and the tivo begins the boot process, it will expect to find the external drive but not. It will ask you to connect it. If you did not see that, then you powered it up ok.
> 
> Jason


What confuses me is I had to un-marry the External in order to do the upgrade. Once I unplugged and rebooted my tivo it asked me to permanently remove the external drive and i said 'yes' in order to use that drive to image the new one. I was surprised it didn't treat my Expander as a 'new' external drive since I had unmarried it.


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## wtherrell

I searched the hard drive thread and did not find this. I will also look in the DVD unit forum..


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## mr.unnatural

wtherrell said:


> I searched the hard drive thread and did not find this. I will also look in the DVD unit forum..


No. The external drive expansion is only for series 3 Tivo models. You need to refer to instructions posted elsewhere to upgrade any other type of Tivo.


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## bkdtv

Has anyone upgraded a TiVo Series3 with an unsupported external drive...under the 11.0b software?


----------



## mr.unnatural

I just tried another attempt at an external drive upgrade today on my unhacked S3 using the same Fantom drive I tried with my hacked S3. This time it worked like a charm and now I have up to 215 HD hours or 1878 SD hours of recording capacity (500GB internal and 1TB external). I'm guessing I entered the wrong parameters with the mfsadd command when I tried it the first time. The Tivo booted right up and never gave me any kind of message telling me to either divorce or add the external drive. I've got another Fantom 1TB external drive on the way so I can upgrade my hacked S3 (750GB internal).

FYI - both of my S3's have the 11.0b update.


----------



## bkdtv

mr.unnatural said:


> I just tried another attempt at an external drive upgrade today on my unhacked S3 using the same Fantom drive I tried with my hacked S3. This time it worked like a charm and now I have up to 215 HD hours or 1878 SD hours of recording capacity (500GB internal and 1TB external). I'm guessing I entered the wrong parameters with the mfsadd command when I tried it the first time. The Tivo booted right up and never gave me any kind of message telling me to either divorce or add the external drive. I've got another Fantom 1TB external drive on the way so I can upgrade my hacked S3 (750GB internal).
> 
> FYI - both of my S3's have the 11.0b update.


Can you clarify?

Were you able to add the Fathom to an unhacked TiVo Series3 (not TivoHD) running the 11.0b software using the the "plug and play" expansion? Or did you add the drive before 11.0b was installed?


----------



## mr.unnatural

bkdtv said:


> Can you clarify?
> 
> Were you able to add the Fathom to an unhacked TiVo Series3 (not TivoHD) running the 11.0b software using the the "plug and play" expansion? Or did you add the drive before 11.0b was installed?


11.0b was already installed before I added the external drive. Since I had already upgraded the internal drive I had to pull it and marry the two drives while connected to my main PC using the MFSLive boot disc. After I reinstalled the internal drive and attached the external drive, the Tivo booted up as though both drives had been there all along. I didn't get any sort of prompt screens that the external drive had been detected and if I wanted to add it to the Tivo. The total updated capacity showed up in the system information screen as did the new external drive (a Western Digital WD10EACS).


----------



## mstenzel

What makes the WD My DVR Expander option "verified?"

I have a Tivo HD unit that I'd like to add capacity to. I have access to a "Tivo Verified" WD My DVR Expander _*enclosure*_, but I would have to add my own SATA drive and eSATA cable. I was thinking this would be a good way to add 1TB without having to open the box.

Is it as simple at that or is the WD hard drive formatted a certain way that makes it work with Tivo? Obviously, I won't bother with piecing it together if it won't work.

Thanks.


----------



## moxie1617

The Tivo is reading the model of the drive from the drives firmware. Puting a different drive in the case won't work.


----------



## mstenzel

Gotcha, moxie1617. That's the info I needed. So there's no benefit to piecing an ext. drive together unless the bare drive was already a WD My DVR 500GB.

Thanks.


----------



## richsadams

mstenzel said:


> Gotcha, moxie1617. That's the info I needed. So there's no benefit to piecing an ext. drive together unless the bare drive was already a WD My DVR 500GB.
> 
> Thanks.


I know it's a bit tedious to read it all but a visit to the first post on this sticky thread is in order. It has everything you need to know about upgrading your TiVo including eSATA and internal options, recommended hard drives, etc.

There's no benefit to using a WD My DVR Expander other than it is the only plug and play option for the TiVo HD and HDXL. In your case the enclosure is not of any use when it comes to TiVo unless, as you say, you could locate an original hard drive. There are other DIY options that have additional requirements for them to work. All are listed in the sticky. You could feasibly use the enclosure to build an external hard drive for a computer though.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## mstenzel

Thanks, Rich. I did read the first post and found it very helpful. Maybe I missed the part about what makes WD's external drives "Tivo Verified," so sorry if this was another of those redundant posts. Of course it makes sense that the exclusivity would be found in the drive's firmware and not the enclosure as that's just a conduit. I'd rather not open my box, so I'll keep my eye on WD prices in the future. Thanks again.


----------



## richsadams

For those wanting to upgrade the internal drive in their TiVo HD or do a DIY eSATA drive, the 1TB WD10000CSRTL is on sale at Micro Center for $89.99. I hesitated to post this because the downside is that it's in-store pickup only. But if you're near one of their 21 stores (or have a friend who is) it might be worth it.

FYI, the WD10000CSRTL is the retail version of the WD10EACS which does NOT work as an internal hard drive upgrade on the Series3 due to a soft reboot issue. However it will work fine as an internal hard drive upgrade for the TiVo HD or as an eSATA drive on the Series3 (or TiVo HD w/modifications - see first post of the Official eSATA Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ sticky thread for more info.).

For a Series3 internal drive upgrade use the recommended WD10EVCS .


----------



## Yuterald

Two things - I upgraded my other HD Tivo last night and WD Expander and it was a PIECE OF CAKE! thank you very much!
Second thing: if you're interested in the Fantom Green 1TB external drive (if you have an S3) it's on sale at Buy.com for $90 AR (you can get it for $80 from MacMall AR of product and AR of shipping). I'm thinking of buying one to attach to my PC to rip a ton of my DVDs so it'd act like a VOD for my HDTivos! Anyone use that drive for that purpose?


----------



## richsadams

Yuterald said:


> if you're interested in the Fantom Green 1TB external drive (if you have an S3) it's on sale at Buy.com for $90 AR (you can get it for $80 from MacMall AR of product and AR of shipping).


Yep, good reminder. Actually I just checked and the recommended 1TB Fantom GP Drive is also $89.99 at buy.com (after rebate). It's being successfully used by several folks here. (The drive inside is reported to be a WD10EACS)

BTW, the full/boxed version of the WD10EACS I mentioned above comes with a mounting kit, eSATA and USB cables, etc. so it's usually a little more than the bare drive and might save some folks a little money if they need those things.


----------



## Yuterald

richsadams said:


> Yep, good reminder. Actually I just checked and the recommended 1TB Fantom GP Drive is also $89.99 at buy.com (after rebate). It's being successfully used by several folks here. (The drive inside is reported to be a WD10EACS)


I'm wondering if anyone has used this as an external drive attached to a PC to stream content to the HDTivo. I've read reviews that it's 'slow' to speed-up when accessing content via a PC through the home network.


----------



## Dssturbo1

had problems getting my original S3 drive or the new Seagte drive to be shown in Win MFS but got that straightened out finally, hot pluggin them in one at a time and my computer actually recognized them specifically by name/model instead of USB mass storage. I had a USB hub that was powered and took the power off it and things seemed to work better just powered by the usb cable.

anyway I did the >MFScopy from the S3 original WD 250Gb hard drive to the new Seagate 1.5 Tb hard drive (Jan 25, 2009 build date code with newer CC1H firmware)with all recordings (about 32 hours of HD so it took almost 6 hours using the slow Sata to USB adapters) and Clicked yes when asked to expand.

Double checked and it said Supersize was already turned on. 

I thought using WinMFS 9.3f beta that would give me 1.35 Tb of space to use on the S3 (internal drive only no added eSata). Put the Seagate back in the S3 and it booted up just fine. Checked the recordings and they were all there, checked several to make sure they could be viewed and all was fine.

Went to check the S3 System Information and it reports 36 Hours of HD space, just like if I had put the original WD 250Gb drive back in..........i went and checked and yes i did put the Seagate in and have the WD sitting here besides me as i type this up so not as crazy as i thought even though that woulda been an easy fix if i did mix them up that bad.

So I thought maybe just the System info was wrong and went into the NPL and tried to transfer shows in from another Tivo S3 and Tivo HD, it allowed 2 more hours of HD (American Idol from last night) but when I tried for more transfers it says I do not have any space available to allow transfers. just as if I had copied the 250Gb S3 drive to the 1.5Tg seagate and no other space was available.

Ok, so why did it make a good copy over from the S3 drive to the new Seagate drive but not allow for the rest of the space to be used? From the 250Gb up to 1.35 Tb

The screen showed it as a Tivo S2 S3 drive and 1500 Gb. I did the MFSinfo and saved it. Would it show why it is only using 250Gb of the 1.35 Tb supposedly available.


----------



## richsadams

Dssturbo1 said:


> Ok, so why did it make a good copy over from the S3 drive to the new Seagate drive but not allow for the rest of the space to be used? From the 250Gb up to 1.35 Tb
> 
> The screen showed it as a Tivo S2 S3 drive and 1500 Gb. I did the MFSinfo and saved it. Would it show why it is only using 250Gb of the 1.35 Tb supposedly available.


Glad to hear that you were able to get the drive recognition sorted out. IIRC others have run into the same issue w/regard to TiVo recognizing the new 1.5TB drives as anything more than stock...something to do with expansion and partitions, etc. Might be best to do a search or ask Spike (creator of winMFS) about it on his forum. He's very good at responding.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


----------



## mr.unnatural

My 2nd Fantom 1TB external green drive arrived last night and I got a chance to try marrying it to my hacked S3 at lunchtime. This time it was wedded bliss and my S3 is now showing 251 HD hours of recording capacity (750GB internal + 1TB external). The S3 has OS version 11.0b for anyone that's interested. *The real interesting thing is that the latest version of the Fantom drive is based on the Western Digital W10EVCS and not the older W10EACS.* You can usually find the Fantom extrenal green drive for about $80 after MIR, making it the best bargain for an external drive used with a S3 Tivo or Tivo HD.


----------



## richsadams

mr.unnatural said:


> My 2nd Fantom 1TB external green drive arrived last night and I got a chance to try marrying it to my hacked S3 at lunchtime. This time it was wedded bliss and my S3 is now showing 251 HD hours of recording capacity (750GB internal + 1TB external). The S3 has OS version 11.0b for anyone that's interested. *The real interesting thing is that the latest version of the Fantom drive is based on the Western Digital W10EVCS and not the older W10EACS.* You can usually find the Fantom extrenal green drive for about $80 after MIR, making it the best bargain for an external drive used with a S3 Tivo or Tivo HD.


Excellent and outstanding information! It appears that 11.0b hasn't "broken" anything...at least when it comes to adding an "unauthorized" eSATA drive on a Series3.

So the eSATA drive showing on your System Information is WD10EVCS? And you have this specific drive? That is great news if so. IIRC the earlier models had the WD10EACS inside, but if they've switched to the WD10EVCS that's very good news indeed. Heck, at that price they are cheaper than the same bare drive!


----------



## Yuterald

mr.unnatural said:


> My 2nd Fantom 1TB external green drive arrived last night and I got a chance to try marrying it to my hacked S3 at lunchtime. This time it was wedded bliss and my S3 is now showing 251 HD hours of recording capacity (750GB internal + 1TB external). The S3 has OS version 11.0b for anyone that's interested. *The real interesting thing is that the latest version of the Fantom drive is based on the Western Digital W10EVCS and not the older W10EACS.* You can usually find the Fantom extrenal green drive for about $80 after MIR, making it the best bargain for an external drive used with a S3 Tivo or Tivo HD.


Where did you buy yours from? I ask since some suppliers might have 'older' versions.
ps - it's true i've found it for $80AR but once they tack on tax I'm at $100


----------



## richsadams

Yuterald said:


> Where did you buy yours from? I ask since some suppliers might have 'older' versions.
> ps - it's true i've found it for $80AR but once they tack on tax I'm at $100


Good point and good question, I didn't think to ask. 

We don't have any state sales tax here. :up: Makes it nice to see the price of something and know that's what you'll pay. But then you have to deal with the property taxes, state income taxes and all of that. :down: Comes out in the wash I suppose.


----------



## mr.unnatural

richsadams said:


> Excellent and outstanding information! It appears that 11.0b hasn't "broken" anything...at least when it comes to adding an "unauthorized" eSATA drive on a Series3.
> 
> So the eSATA drive showing on your System Information is WD10EVCS? And you have this specific drive? That is great news if so. IIRC the earlier models had the WD10EACS inside, but if they've switched to the WD10EVCS that's very good news indeed. Heck, at that price they are cheaper than the same bare drive!


That is correct. I added the external drive using MFSLive and the Tivo booted up without a hitch. I checked the system information screen and saw the updated capacity. When I scrolled down to see the attached storage it showed up as the W10EVCS.



Yuterald said:


> Where did you buy yours from? I ask since some suppliers might have 'older' versions.
> ps - it's true i've found it for $80AR but once they tack on tax I'm at $100


I bought mine from www.macmall.com. I saw it listed on dealnews.com earlier this week. They always have drives listed in the storage section. If you check the listing for whatever external drive they're showcasing in the list you'll see a link to access a list of additional drives of the same type that are also on sale or have MIRs.

Here's the link to the macmall deal (it's still valid). I ended up paying around $133 with shipping, which will get knocked down to about $93 after the two $20 MIRs.


----------



## mstenzel

mr.unnatural said:


> *The real interesting thing is that the latest version of the Fantom drive is based on the Western Digital W10EVCS and not the older W10EACS.* You can usually find the Fantom extrenal green drive for about $80 after MIR, making it the best bargain for an external drive used with a S3 Tivo or Tivo HD.


Hold up. Does this mean that the Fantom can be used as an external for a TivoHD _without having to open the box_? I'm reading your assessment as saying that the Fantom will work just like the WD My DVR Expander (first post, TivoHD, Option #1) because of the W10EVCS under the hood. Or are you just saying that the Fantom w/W10ECVS will work nicely as an unsupported external drive for the TivoHD (first post, TivoHD, Option #3)?

Thanks.


----------



## bkdtv

mstenzel said:


> Hold up. Does this mean that the Fantom can be used as an external for a TivoHD _without having to open the box_? I'm reading your assessment as saying that the Fantom will work just like the WD My DVR Expander (first post, TivoHD, Option #1) because of the W10EVCS under the hood. Or are you just saying that the Fantom w/W10ECVS will work nicely as an unsupported external drive for the TivoHD (first post, TivoHD, Option #3)?


He's referring to TivoHD option #3 -- "add an unsupported 1.0 TB external drive" which "requires you to open the box and void the TiVo warranty."

He already upgraded the internal drive in his TiVo, so regardless of the external drive he uses, it has to be paired using a computer.


----------



## mstenzel

Gotcha. Thanks.


----------



## jlib

mr.unnatural said:


> _The real interesting thing is that the latest version of the Fantom drive is based on the Western Digital W10EVCS and not the older W10EACS._.


Do you remember if the bare drive had a circle in the middle of the label?


----------



## mr.unnatural

It wasn't a bare drive. The Fantom drive (i.e., WD10EVCS) comes in a powered external enclosure and it has a tamper-proof seal on it. I'm not about to open it up and void the warranty to see if it has a circle on the drive label.

The real advantage to using the Fantom drive over others on the recommended list is because it already comes with the enclosure. If you were to buy an external enclosure from the recommended enclosure list it would add about $40-50 to the cost of the drive. The Fantom drive, with enclosure, is selling at or below the cost of other bare drives.

The Fantom drive can be considered a mixed bag because it's a passively cooled enclosure (i.e., it has no internal fan). Some may consider this a detriment. I will only say that the enclosure feels luke warm to the touch and does not get excessively warm or even hot. This is no doubt due in part to the fact that it uses the WD "green" drive that is supposed to run cooler and use less power to operate.

I don't know if the Fantom will work as a plug and play drive like the WD DVR Expander, but I rather doubt it based on what's listed in the FAQ. I had already upgraded the internal drives of both my S3's before I added the Fantom drive so I had to marry them together in a PC before they'd work.


----------



## crazzeto

Hey guys, this probably gets asked alot so appologies... Read over the OP and I got some good solid info from it, but I have some questions here... 

I bought a Cavalry CAXB3701T0 1TB (Box said CAXE/CAXM though) external eSATA drive from newegg recently. I went ahead and tried to get it going with my Tivo HD, but was prompted with a message stating that this drive was not comaptible with Tivo and could not be used with expansion. I guess I'm encouraged by the OP in so far as it sounds like at the very least there might be away to make it work, but I guess it means opening the Tivo?

So I'm wondering, if I decided to go ahead and void my warrentee about a month after buying my Tivo, what all is involved? Anyone have a link to a website detailing what's going on? I do have quite a bit of experience with putting together computers, and even did a hack job on my old Directv series II 40gb, doubling drive space to 80gb, so i feel like I should be able to pull this off. But at the same time, I guess now that I'm a little older (wiser?) I'm just not terribly excited about the idea of voiding my warentee on a 1 month old $299 peice of hardware.

So with that note, what alternatives might I have? Will the Tivo only play nice with the my expander? Are there any 1TB options that a tivo will play nice with? Thanks guys.


----------



## fljoe

richsadams said:


> Looks like bkdtv missed your question. My answer is "probably". Since TiVo recognized the drive (as evidenced by the requirement to properly remove it) it's more likely that there is a problem with the drive or the drive enclosure. Again since TiVo acknowledged the drive my money says that the eSATA hard drive itself is defective. It's fairly rare but it happens and as with most CE products, if something's going to fail, it'll usually fail right away.
> 
> The SIIG cable is still a good investment, but I'd get an RMA for your DOA drive from Newegg. bkdtv may have some other advice as well.
> 
> Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


Just wanted to update .. I finally got my replacement from Newegg and this time adding the external My DVR Expander went without a hitch. I did use the SIIG cable instead of the eSata cable that came with the drive.

I will keep this soultion for some time until I run out of disk space and then will try to upgrade the internal drive.


----------



## bkdtv

crazzeto said:


> So with that note, what alternatives might I have? Will the Tivo only play nice with the my expander? Are there any 1TB options that a tivo will play nice with? Thanks guys.


Did you see the first post in this thread? It contains answers to almost every possible question, refined over the previous 1.5 years. 

The first post tells you what drives you can use without voiding the warranty, as well as recommend internal and external drives to use if you are willing to void the warranty. It has detailed instructions for these upgrades.


----------



## crazzeto

bkdtv said:


> Did you see the first post in this thread? It contains answers to almost every possible question, refined over the previous 1.5 years.
> 
> The first post tells you what drives you can use without voiding the warranty, as well as recommend internal and external drives to use if you are willing to void the warranty. It has detailed instructions for these upgrades.


Well... If there was anything that makes a boy feel like he shouldn't have been so lazy about RMAing his dead motherboard....


----------



## Dssturbo1

crazzeto said:


> ..........So I'm wondering, if I decided to go ahead and void my warrentee about a month after buying my Tivo, what all is involved? Anyone have a link to a website detailing what's going on? I do have quite a bit of experience with putting together computers, and even did a hack job on my old Directv series II 40gb, doubling drive space to 80gb, so i feel like I should be able to pull this off. But at the same time, I guess now that I'm a little older (wiser?) I'm just not terribly excited about the idea of voiding my warentee on a 1 month old $299 peice of hardware.
> 
> So with that note, what alternatives might I have? Will the Tivo only play nice with the my expander? Are there any 1TB options that a tivo will play nice with? Thanks guys.


bkdtv did an excellent job with all the upgrade info the first post of this thread, it's detailed and suggested as a must read if you want to upgrade your Tivo Series 3/HD/HD XL.

but to quick help ya through here's a simplistic listed way to add your new esata drive to your Tivo HD. it's from the quick step guide on the mfslive.org site

WinMFS - Add an eSATA drive or 2nd Drive
1. Download WinMFS 
2. Unzip the File
3. Setup your computer
4. Double Click on the program to launch it. 
(If using Vista, right click then run it as an"Administrator.")
5. Select Source Drive
Select internal drive as "A drive" and select eSATA drive as "B drive"
6. Tools->Mfsadd
7. Tools->Mfsinfo to verify.
8. All Done!


----------



## richsadams

mr.unnatural said:


> I don't know if the Fantom will work as a plug and play drive like the WD DVR Expander, but I rather doubt it based on what's listed in the FAQ. I had already upgraded the internal drives of both my S3's before I added the Fantom drive so I had to marry them together in a PC before they'd work.


The Fantom "Green" 1TB eSATA drive will work fine via plug and play on an unmodified (no hard drive up grade) Series3 ONLY...not w/TiVo HD's or HDXL's. It would need to be married to the internal drive (see first post) under any other circumstance.

Thanks again for the info! :up:


----------



## richsadams

fljoe said:


> Just wanted to update .. I finally got my replacement from Newegg and this time adding the external My DVR Expander went without a hitch. I did use the SIIG cable instead of the eSata cable that came with the drive.
> 
> I will keep this soultion for some time until I run out of disk space and then will try to upgrade the internal drive.


Congrats and enjoy!


----------



## xanthas12

Has anyone had any luck with the Fantom G-Gorce external? I tried it with my Series 3 software ver. 11 and there's no detection on start up and from the Tivo menu it tells me the drive is not supported. Could this be a cable issue?


----------



## jlib

mr.unnatural said:


> It wasn't a bare drive. The Fantom drive (i.e., WD10EVCS) comes in a powered external enclosure and it has a tamper-proof seal on it. I'm not about to open it up and void the warranty to see if it has a circle on the drive label.


Aha, OK, understood. I was thinking that you had removed the bare drive to do the marrying. But of course you can use the USB or ESATA interface. I wasn't thinking...


----------



## Dssturbo1

Dssturbo1 said:


> had problems getting my original S3 drive or the new Seagte drive to be shown in Win MFS but got that straightened out finally, hot pluggin them in one at a time and my computer actually recognized them specifically by name/model instead of USB mass storage. I had a USB hub that was powered and took the power off it and things seemed to work better just powered by the usb cable.
> 
> anyway I did the >MFScopy from the S3 original WD 250Gb hard drive to the new Seagate 1.5 Tb hard drive (Jan 25, 2009 build date code with newer CC1H firmware)with all recordings (about 32 hours of HD so it took almost 6 hours using the slow Sata to USB adapters) and Clicked yes when asked to expand.
> 
> Double checked and it said Supersize was already turned on.
> 
> I thought using WinMFS 9.3f beta that would give me 1.35 Tb of space to use on the S3 (internal drive only no added eSata). Put the Seagate back in the S3 and it booted up just fine. Checked the recordings and they were all there, checked several to make sure they could be viewed and all was fine.
> 
> Went to check the S3 System Information and it reports 36 Hours of HD space, just like if I had put the original WD 250Gb drive back in..........i went and checked and yes i did put the Seagate in and have the WD sitting here besides me as i type this up so not as crazy as i thought even though that woulda been an easy fix if i did mix them up that bad.
> 
> So I thought maybe just the System info was wrong and went into the NPL and tried to transfer shows in from another Tivo S3 and Tivo HD, it allowed 2 more hours of HD (American Idol from last night) but when I tried for more transfers it says I do not have any space available to allow transfers. just as if I had copied the 250Gb S3 drive to the 1.5Tg seagate and no other space was available.
> 
> Ok, so why did it make a good copy over from the S3 drive to the new Seagate drive but not allow for the rest of the space to be used? From the 250Gb up to 1.35 Tb
> 
> The screen showed it as a Tivo S2 S3 drive and 1500 Gb. I did the MFSinfo and saved it. Would it show why it is only using 250Gb of the 1.35 Tb supposedly available.


Success with the internal drive using the Seagate 1.5Tb drive.

I posted the MFSinfo for my upgraded 1.5Tb drive i was having issues with on the MFSlive forums and Spike said it was not expanded. I just needed to reconnect and Select Drive then do the Tools > MFSadd. a popup will ask if you want to limit it to 1Tib and Spike said to select yes. That should expand it and give a total of 1.35Tb usable space with a 1.5Tb drive

It worked, i reinstalled the 1.5Tb back in my S3 and it rebooted just fine. Checked the System info and Yeah,......it shows 213 HD hours and 1860 SD hours using the one internal Seagate 1.5Tb drive. it had the 36 hours of recorded shows that were transferred when it did the MFSCopy and now it did let me transfer 15+ more HD programs and everything is working great so far.

Here is what i think is the problem.........

Spike please check to see if there is a glitch in the WinMFS 9.3f beta. i used the quick start guide on MSFlive.org for WinMFS.

And the first page on this post. Section V. #16 B. section neither the WinMFS Quick Start guide or page 1 of this post, Section V. #16 B mentions using Winadd. (I had seen WinAdd noted in other guides but mistakenly I had thought that was just for adding/marrying an eSata drive to an internal drive of a S3/HD/HDXL)

After the MFSCopy it does have a popup that ask if you want to use the expanded space on your new drive and to select Yes.

I think that Spike meant that to be the same as MFSadd But I believe it is actually doing the MFSsupersize command.

When I then did the MFSuspersize after using MFSCopy and choosing the Yes on the popup asking me if i wanted to use the expanded space it gave me a popup that said Supersize was already on. seemed odd but i just thought that was included when i selected yes to expanded and supersized was included as part of that Yes selected command.

Just my thoughts. hope Spike can check it out and this helps anyone trying to use WinMFS and the Seagate 1.5Tb as internal drive.

Bkdtv, you could note the upgrade guide also until Spike can confirm.

Got it at BB on sale $135. There are reports of problems with early firmwares on these drives so be careful. This one has 09303 as the date code which is a build date of Jjan 25, 2209 with firmware CC1H whcih has reported to be ok.

It's the Seagate 1.5Tb 7200 rpm, 32 Mb cache, Model:ST315005N1A1AS - RK = retail kit box so you get the 5 year Seagate warranty and it comes with a sata data cable, 4 pin molex to sata power cable and install cd for pc/mac.


----------



## bkdtv

xanthas12 said:


> Has anyone had any luck with the Fantom G-Gorce external? I tried it with my Series 3 software ver. 11 and there's no detection on start up and from the Tivo menu it tells me the drive is not supported. Could this be a cable issue?


If you have the Series3 (with orange OLED display on front), it should say the drive is unsupported, but still allow you to ignore the warning and enable the drive.


----------



## samjemb

I recently attempted to upgrade my Series 3 TCD648250B by replacing the internal 250 Gbyte drive with a new 1T drive (WD10EVCS).

This would have been a snap if I didn't already have a 750GByte external drive attached to the series 3 TiVo (I successfully upgraded my HDTiVo to a 1T internal drive about 6 months ago, but I didn't have an external drive attached to that unit.)

My first thought was to combine the 250 GByte internal and the 750 gbyte external into a single internal drive. WinMFS doesn't support this task, and try as I might, I could not get MFSLive to accomplish this task either.

So I opted for my second choice which was to replace the internal 250 Gbyte drive with a 1T drive (and still keep the external 750GByte drive.) WinMFS wouldn't work (I kept getting error #1), and MFSLive wouldn't perform this task either (and I know I got the command line correct.)

So it seems at this point, that if I want to keep my recordings, I must stick with the configuration I have now. I thought of adding the 1T drive as an external drive to my HDTiVo (which would then have a total of 2 Terabytes of storage) and then copying over most of my recordings across my network. Once I had done this, I could remove the external drive from my series 3 TiVo and then, hopefully, upgrade it's internal drive. Unfortunately, this would be a long and tedious process, and would still result in my having an external drive (only now it would be on my HDTiVo instead of my series 3)

Does anyone have any thoughts on whether I have any other options here? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

David


----------



## greg_burns

samjemb said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts on whether I have any other options here? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


I believe offloading your shows via Tivo2Go is really your only option...

I remember this post from bkdtv just a little while back. (I had the same problem). Haven't taken the time to find this info in the FAQ myself, but I'm sure he's added it.



bkdtv said:


> Unfortunately, you can't do that. You can't upgrade your hard drive and keep it married to your external drive. You must unmarry the external drive first on your TivoHD,
> 
> You must reinstall the drive in the TiVo, power it back up without the external drive connected, follow the on-screen instructions to unmarry the external drive (losing all recordings on it), and then you can proceed with the internal drive upgrade with WinMFS.
> 
> *Before* you disconnect your external hard drive and lose those recordings, you may want to download the recordings to your computer using TiVo Desktop. Then after the upgrade is complete, send those recordings back to your TiVo.
> 
> It is unfortunate you had to find this out the hard way. I will add this information to the FAQ so others do not run into the same problem.


----------



## jlib

Dssturbo1 said:


> Success with the internal drive using the Seagate 1.5Tb drive....


Nice! Thanks for persisting in your investigations. How do you compare the head seek noise levels between the stock drive and the new one?


----------



## bkdtv

greg_burns said:


> I believe offloading your shows via Tivo2Go is really your only option...
> 
> I remember this post from bkdtv just a little while back. (I had the same problem). Haven't taken the time to find this info in the FAQ myself, but I'm sure he's added it.


It's in the FAQ now. 

FAQ #4 under _Internal Drive Upgrades_.


----------



## Dssturbo1

jlib said:


> Nice! Thanks for persisting in your investigations. How do you compare the head seek noise levels between the stock drive and the new one?


very quiet so far. I can barely hear the fan noise from the S3 but nothing from the hard drive.

My other S3 has the stock drive plus eSata encliosure connected and there is head seek noise from the 750Gb Seagate in the enclosure sometimes. When i get programs transferred off from it, I probably will put a 1.5Tb in it too. Quieter plus alot cleaner setup with no enclosure, no power cord and no eSata cable connection.


----------



## richsadams

Dssturbo1 said:


> Success with the internal drive using the Seagate 1.5Tb drive.


Let me add my congrats and thanks for the info! :up:


----------



## vandozza

Hi all,

I'm a new Tivo HD user from Australia, and have been reading (most) of this long thread with great interest.

I'd like to upgrade the internal HDD from 160GB to 1TB using a WD drive.

I understand that the recommended drive is the WD EVCS.

Looking on the WD site, I can only find the WD EVVS model.

Searching for a drive on Australian online computer stores, I can only find the WD EVCS.

So I guess the question is, what's the difference between the EVVS and the EVCS? (I have searched these forums, and googled, but the only suggestion that I found was that the EVVS is 5400 rpm, while the EVCS is 7200 rpm. Is this correct?)

Thanks!


----------



## bkdtv

vandozza said:


> So I guess the question is, what's the difference between the EVVS and the EVCS? (I have searched these forums, and googled, but the only suggestion that I found was that the EVVS is 5400 rpm, while the EVCS is 7200 rpm. Is this correct?)


The EVCS is just the EVVS with twice the cache (16MB vs 8MB).

Western Digital updated their site so it only mentions the WD10EVVS.


----------



## steinercat

mr. unnatural,

where did you order the Fantom with the EVCS from?

thanks for the info!


----------



## mr.unnatural

I posted this info previously:



mr.unnatural said:


> I bought mine from www.macmall.com. I saw it listed on dealnews.com earlier this week. They always have drives listed in the storage section. If you check the listing for whatever external drive they're showcasing in the list you'll see a link to access a list of additional drives of the same type that are also on sale or have MIRs.
> 
> Here's the link to the macmall deal (it's still valid). I ended up paying around $133 with shipping, which will get knocked down to about $93 after the two $20 MIRs.


----------



## richsadams

Looks like the rebate went up another $10 for the Fantom GP eSATA at MacMall? $79.99 AR. Sweet! :up:


----------



## samjemb

greg_burns said:


> I believe offloading your shows via Tivo2Go is really your only option...
> 
> Thank you for that info! I guess my only choice is to offload my recordings to a computer, unmarry the external drive and then, essentially, start over with a virgin Series 3 (but this time with a 1T internal drive.)
> 
> This option brings up a couple of other questions, though. I've noticed (when using TiVo destop to transfer recordings to my PC) that the resulting recordings (I'm referring to HD recordings, incidentally) are smaller than I would expect them to be (somewhere in the neighborhood of 4Gbytes for an hour long show.) Does TiVo compress the recordings when transferring from the TiVo box to a PC?
> 
> I ask this question because it seems that I notice a loss of image quality when I view the tranferred TiVo recordings on my PC. (Please note that I have a reasonably high-end PC, with an excellent graphics card set to 1080i, and am feeding the signal to my 61" DLP via a DVI connection.) The image quality for an uncompressed (or slightly compressed) HD file is truly great, but the image quality from the TiVo transferred files don't look nearly as good or, as good as viewing them directly from the TiVo (on the same TV.)
> 
> Any thoughts on this?
> 
> The other question I have is, is there a way to transfer recordings back to my TiVo? I saw some vague references to this in one of the forums, but nothing I have found seems to indicate that this is possible.
> 
> Again, many thanks and, as always, any thoughts or recommendations are very much appreciated!
> 
> David


----------



## bkdtv

Recordings are downloaded as is, at 100% original quality, but will be somewhat smaller on your PC because of how the TiVo reports sizes. The TiVo INFO screen (and TiVo Desktop) reports recording sizes based on 1,000,000,000 bytes per gigabyte. But there are actually 1,073,741,824 bytes per gigabyte. Hence, the TiVo overstates file sizes by about 7%.

As far as playback quality, that can vary substantially depending on the codecs / filters you have installed on your PC. Some codecs essentially provide only 540p resolution on 1080i content, whereas other codecs are able to provide closer to 1080p resolution with telecine. Even with the same codecs installed, playback quality can vary by video card.


----------



## vandozza

bkdtv said:


> The EVCS is just the EVVS with twice the cache (16MB vs 8MB).
> 
> Western Digital updated their site so it only mentions the WD10EVVS.


Just so I'm clear on this -
EVCS - 16mb cache
EVVS - 8mb cache

Why is their no more mention of the EVCS on the WD site? It seems like the EVCS would be the "better" drive, d/t the larger cache?


----------



## richsadams

vandozza said:


> Just so I'm clear on this -
> EVCS - 16mb cache
> EVVS - 8mb cache
> 
> Why is their no more mention of the EVCS on the WD site? It seems like the EVCS would be the "better" drive, d/t the larger cache?


The OEM hard drives in TiVo Series3's and TiVo HD's have a miniscule 2MB of cache That used to be enough for Series1's and Series2's that dealt only with SD recordings. However it may well be that HD programming as well as high data throughput via broadband etc. and the associated I/O demands on the Series3 and TiVo HD's may be taking their toll. I've long speculated that the OEM hard drive's tiny cache may be inadequate for the job and responsible for some of the continuing issues people are having. These problems are very often remedied by replacing the OEM drive with one having 8+MB of cache. (AFAIK you can't buy a drive with <8MB of cache any more.)

That said, most of the knowledgeable folks here have repeatedly said (and I trust their expertise) that although it may be important to other applications, due to their architecture TiVo Series3's and TiVo HD/HDXL's cannot take advantage of more than 8MB (possibly less) of cache. So either drive should work fine.


----------



## vandozza

Thanks alot for that clarification.

Looks like I'll be upgrading to an EVCS over the next few weeks!


----------



## crazzeto

so I've thought it over, I think I'm going to go for it... what the hay, my motherboard is (finally) being RMAed so I'll have my desktop again. Why not void my warentee and bless my tivo with 1TB? lol


----------



## richsadams

crazzeto said:


> so I've thought it over, I think I'm going to go for it... what the hay, my motherboard is (finally) being RMAed so I'll have my desktop again. Why not void my warentee and bless my tivo with 1TB? lol


Live dangerously I always say.


----------



## richsadams

*Caution*: For those that paid Best Buy $219, avert your eyes. Move along, nothing to look at here.

While supplies last at Dell!

TiVo Approved 500GB Western Digital My DVR Expander $79.99


----------



## ThAbtO

I had a 15&#37; coupon when I got mine back then.


----------



## richsadams

ThAbtO said:


> I had a 15% coupon when I got mine back then.


A good deal at the time!


----------



## jfh3

Could I take the image of a Tivo XL drive, put it on a 2GB drive, put the drive in a regular Tivo HD, do a CADE and have a 2GB drive working in a THD?


----------



## bkdtv

jfh3 said:


> Could I take the image of a Tivo XL drive, put it on a 2GB drive, put the drive in a regular Tivo HD, do a CADE and have a 2GB drive working in a THD?


From what others have told me, it should work. However, before you buy a 2TB drive, test the TivoHD XL image on a smaller drive.


----------



## lrhorer

samjemb said:


> Does TiVo compress the recordings when transferring from the TiVo box to a PC?


No. They are unencrypted and re-packaged as .TIVO files, but otherwise are unchanged.



samjemb said:


> I ask this question because it seems that I notice a loss of image quality when I view the tranferred TiVo recordings on my PC.


This would be an artifact of your setup. Transfer back to the TiVo, and you will find the PQ identical to the original.



samjemb said:


> The other question I have is, is there a way to transfer recordings back to my TiVo? I saw some vague references to this in one of the forums, but nothing I have found seems to indicate that this is possible.


No offense, but you can't have looked very hard. There are extensive and lively discussions on the board about pyTivo, Galleon, Streambaby, and if you must, TiVo Desktop. These are all network apps. I don't know of a way to transfer directly to a TiVo drive, but there may be a way. I would suggest the network route, however, even if a direct transfer method does exist.


----------



## samjemb

bkdtv said:


> Recordings are downloaded as is, at 100% original quality, but will be somewhat smaller on your PC because of how the TiVo reports sizes.
> 
> Even with the same codecs installed, playback quality can vary by video card.


Thank you for that explanation! I also discovered something else that I found quite interesting. For about a year, we had Verizon FIOS. Due to a terrible cusomter service experience with Verizon, however, we went back to Cablevision. After looking over the file sizes on TiVo, I realized that the recordings I made while I had Verizon were considerably larger (by a factor of nearly 2!) than those made with Cablevision. This makes sense when I consider that the image quality was noticeably better with Verizon.


----------



## samjemb

lrhorer said:


> No. They are unencrypted and re-packaged as .TIVO files, but otherwise are unchanged.
> 
> This would be an artifact of your setup. Transfer back to the TiVo, and you will find the PQ identical to the original.
> 
> No offense, but you can't have looked very hard. There are extensive and lively discussions on the board about pyTivo, Galleon, Streambaby, and if you must, TiVo Desktop. These are all network apps. I don't know of a way to transfer directly to a TiVo drive, but there may be a way. I would suggest the network route, however, even if a direct transfer method does exist.


You are correct on all counts! I tried your experiment (copying a file to my PC and then copying it back to my TiVo) and the quality was identical to the original file. As you said, it was my PC that was causing me to believe that the image quality was not up to snuff. Once I put in a better graphics card and adjusted the settings, the image was beautiful. Also, I realized that I can easily copy the .tivo files back to my TiVo from the "Now Showing" menu on my TiVo. It's a bit tedious, but very doable.

For the past several days, I have been copying all my files from my series 3 to my PC. This weekend, I will divorce the external drive, copy the OS from the internal 250 GByte drive to a new 1T drive, and then begin the process of copying all the files back from my PC. After that, I should be in good shape!

Thanks so much for your help!


----------



## xdothedew

I just bought the Fantom external 1TB green drive from MacMall a couple of days ago, and it came with a WD10EAVS drive, not the WD10EVCS. Anyone else experience this as well?


----------



## mr.unnatural

After reading your post I went back and doublechecked my Tivo to confirm that I had the EVCS drive that I had reported earlier. I'm now sitting here with egg on my face because my system information screen is telling me I have the EAVS and not the EVCS. I checked my other S3 with the earlier version of the Fantom green drive and it has the EACS. I must have gotten the designations confused and reported the incorrect model. My sincere apologies to anyone that purchased a Fantom drive based on my misinformation. That being said, there's no reason why the EAVS drive won't work as an external drive (mine is working just fine).


----------



## macd2

I finished installing a WD10EADS in my Tivo HD yesterday.
Everything is working fine.


----------



## waynomo

My current computer only has two SATA ports. I would like to add a card so that I would have at least 4 SATA ports total. I want to upgrade my Tivo internal drive to a 1 TB drive and preserve my recordings. It seems this will work better if I have three SATA ports available. 

1. Computer OS
2. Original Tivo HD
3. New Tivo HD 

Can anybody recommend an expansion card?

Thanks,
Wayne


----------



## macd2

waynomo said:


> My current computer only has two SATA ports. I would like to add a card so that I would have at least 4 SATA ports total. I want to upgrade my Tivo internal drive to a 1 TB drive and preserve my recordings. It seems this will work better if I have three SATA ports available.
> 
> 1. Computer OS
> 2. Original Tivo HD
> 3. New Tivo HD
> 
> Can anybody recommend an expansion card?
> 
> Thanks,
> Wayne


A (free) alternative:
I made an MFSLive Boot CD.
I disconnected my computer's harddrives and installed only the two Tivo drives. I booted and ran the tools from the optical drive.


----------



## lew

jfh3 said:


> Could I take the image of a Tivo XL drive, put it on a 2GB drive, put the drive in a regular Tivo HD, do a CADE and have a 2GB drive working in a THD?


I assume you mean a 2TB drive.



bkdtv said:


> From what others have told me, it should work. However, before you buy a 2TB drive, test the TivoHD XL image on a smaller drive.


Will the next software upgrade result in Tivo HD, not HD XL software, being installed? Could that be an issue with a drive larger then 1T?


----------



## Yuterald

waynomo said:


> My current computer only has two SATA ports. I would like to add a card so that I would have at least 4 SATA ports total. I want to upgrade my Tivo internal drive to a 1 TB drive and preserve my recordings. It seems this will work better if I have three SATA ports available.
> 
> 1. Computer OS
> 2. Original Tivo HD
> 3. New Tivo HD
> 
> Can anybody recommend an expansion card?
> 
> Thanks,
> Wayne


I bought the USB eSata and USB SATA connectors and connected the new and existing drives to the USB ports on the front of my computer - worked like a champ.


----------



## Yuterald

xdothedew said:


> I just bought the Fantom external 1TB green drive from MacMall a couple of days ago, and it came with a WD10EAVS drive, not the WD10EVCS. Anyone else experience this as well?


I bought one from Buy.com but i did not crack it open to see what model drive it is. -i'm having issues getting my tivo to see any files on both new external drives i hooked up. my tivo sees the main folder, but no folders/files below it. frustrating.


----------



## tazzmission

Trying to Decide on an internal 1TB drive for a friends TiVo HD.

Either a Western Digital WD10EADS or a HITACHI 0A38016.

I have an older HITACHI 7K1000 HDS721010KLA330 that I got from Newegg and they no longer have it.

Which drive would be better to use in a TiVo HD?


----------



## Dssturbo1

I have a stock Tivo HD that seems to have bricked itself after doing a Clear & Delete everything......plugged/unplugged 5+ times and waited hours but it's stuck on the "almost there" screen. 

I just upgraded my S3 with a Seagate 1.5Tb drive and was looking forward to doing my Tivo HD as well. After I deleted the recorded programs in the NPL I did the Clear & Delete everything option hoping to get the cleanest drive image for a backup file using WinMFS 9.3f beta.

Does anyone have a Tivo HD image i can beg off them to use with WinMFS to put on a new drive?

Or can you use another Tivo HD and get the backup file image off of it's drive and put it on a new drive and install in my Tivo HD >>> i had read in the FAQ on the MFSlive site that it would start then give an Error Code #51 but then you could do a Clear and Delete everything and it should work (even though it was originally married to the first Tivo HD), so thats why i was wondering as i have a friend with a Tivo HD I could borrow to do that if it would work he's not local and so i need to know before i go that route. thanks for any help.


----------



## ThAbtO

Yuterald said:


> I bought one from Buy.com but i did not crack it open to see what model drive it is. -i'm having issues getting my tivo to see any files on both new external drives i hooked up. my tivo sees the main folder, but no folders/files below it. frustrating.


Think the drive model is shown on the System Information screen.


----------



## bkdtv

Dssturbo1 said:


> Or can you use another Tivo HD and get the backup file image off of it's drive and put it on a new drive and install in my Tivo HD >>> i had read in the FAQ on the MFSlive site that it would start then give an Error Code #51 but then you could do a Clear and Delete everything and it should work (even though it was originally married to the first Tivo HD), so thats why i was wondering as i have a friend with a Tivo HD I could borrow to do that if it would work he's not local and so i need to know before i go that route. thanks for any help.


Yes, you can use an image off another TivoHD and run "Clear and Delete."

Just make sure you use software from a TivoHD on a TivoHD. The software from the Series3 is not compatible with the TivoHD.

If you can't borrow your friend's TivoHD, DVRUpgrade sells the InstantCake restore CD for $19.99. This restore CD includes a copy of the original TiVo software which it will restore to a new drive up to 1.0TiB in size. It will *not* work with larger drives.


----------



## ThAbtO

richsadams said:


> A good deal at the time!


I remember a little oddity at the time I got my Expander. When I got it at Best Buy store, I had asked one of the sales people to check if there was any more, but the result was that the box I had in hand was not even in the store's computer.


----------



## Dssturbo1

bkdtv said:


> Yes, you can use an image off another TivoHD and run "Clear and Delete."
> 
> Just make sure you use software from a TivoHD on a TivoHD. The software from the Series3 is not compatible with the TivoHD.
> 
> If you can't borrow your friend's TivoHD, DVRUpgrade sells the InstantCake restore CD for $19.99. This restore CD includes a copy of the original TiVo software which it will restore to a new drive up to 1.0TiB in size. It will *not* work with larger drives.


ok cool, thanks for verifying that. i did have my S3 image i had backed up, that was the first thing i did when i was upgrading the S3 but I did know it wouldn't work on the Tivo HD. as mentioned my stock Tivo HD bricked before i could even get to back it up and then upgrade, i think it was just scaarreed, lol.

it may be a day or two but will post back here to let everyone know how it goes.

again many many thanks bkdtv for ALL the answers, guides and overall help you provide to all us.


----------



## waynomo

tazzmission said:


> Trying to Decide on an internal 1TB drive for a friends TiVo HD.
> 
> Either a Western Digital WD10EADS or a HITACHI 0A38016.
> 
> I have an older HITACHI 7K1000 HDS721010KLA330 that I got from Newegg and they no longer have it.
> 
> Which drive would be better to use in a TiVo HD?


Why wouldn't you use the Western Digital WD10EVCS? This is the drive recommended for DVRs. It is just about the same price as the other WD drive. A few bucks extra seems well worth it in this instance.

Am I missing something here?


----------



## richsadams

ThAbtO said:


> I remember a little oddity at the time I got my Expander. When I got it at Best Buy store, I had asked one of the sales people to check if there was any more, but the result was that the box I had in hand was not even in the store's computer.


It was a strange time indeed...no one had a clue what they were or were used for. "That won't work with a TiVo." And before that when the KS62 was made public. "What's a kickstart...you got a TiVo bike or something?" The good old days.


----------



## richsadams

waynomo said:


> Why wouldn't you use the Western Digital WD10EVCS? This is the drive recommended for DVRs. It is just about the same price as the other WD drive. A few bucks extra seems well worth it in this instance.
> 
> Am I missing something here?


+1 :up:


----------



## alyssa

samjemb said:


> I guess my only choice is to offload my recordings to a computer, unmarry the external drive and then, essentially, start over with a virgin Series 3 (but this time with a 1T internal drive.)


Spikes response to an ETA on the transfer of both eSATA & internal data to a new drive was

"Maybe sometime this year or next" 12.07.08


----------



## Yuterald

Ok - i've conducted "tests" on buying the WD bare drive, putting it into an external case and I bought (the same time) the "green" fantom drive. Connected both via USB and streamed shows from the PC to the HDTIvo. The WD drive in enclosure constantly stopped and started while the fantom never hung up and, while continuously watching it, got 'ahead' in downloading the program while watching it 'live'. The WD, when xfring and selecting to start watching it right away would 'pause' at first, I waited @2 seconds and pressed play where it'd play for about 20 seconds and freeze again. To rule out USB ports I swapped each from their current input to the other: same results. The last thing to test is the show that i'm 'streaming' - the ones I tested from the WD were TIVO files while on the fantom they were .mpg. I'll let you know what I find out. If it remains 'as-is' I'm only buying fantom drives as external storage to stream to my Tivo!


----------



## richsadams

Yuterald said:


> Ok - i've conducted "tests" on buying the WD bare drive, putting it into an external case and I bought (the same time) the "green" fantom drive.


Interesting info. Particularly since the Fantom uses WD HDD's. Can you give us the drive model numbers of both? (This is easy to determine by looking at the System Information screen when the drive is connected.)

Also can you please let us know which external enclosure you're using? It would seem more likely that it has something to do with the external enclosure but it's certainly possible the difference in the drives might be important in this case. Let us know more details when available. :up:


----------



## Yuterald

Ok all, part of the 'new external HD's' was moving 2 other external HDs from another computer to the one I mainly use and that included moving other USB devices. So I have 4 external HD's hooked up (2 older ones are for photos and music) and i hooked up our USB charger for our two Apple Shuffle's. I dropped my shuffle in to charge it and it wouldn't charge and it ended up 'freezing' and 'crashing' my computer. I was able to get it back up and running (and this happened before on another computer where it ended up frying all my USB ports and Dell ended up giving me a new computer since they could not fix it). Why the long story? Welllll this a.m. I remembered I did not verify that shuffle didn't fry my USB ports so I fired up My Computer and began getting errors that drive J: and then the other new drive had data "lost" due to a network or computer error and stated to save it elsewhere! I opened up both externals and except for one file (The Dark Knight) EVERY file is 'gone'! I rebooted my PC but had to leave for work so I'll check it tonight to see if it 'finds' any of the files. What makes it even more frustrating is the drives are still showing that space 'used'. I lost programs xferd from my Tivo that I wanted to keep so I'm mad about that. (BTW: using pyTivo). The files in my Shared Tivo Folder on my C drive were fine though. I dont' know if it was the shuffle USB that caused this or not but if it doesn't 'find' the files when i'm home tonight i'll have to reformat them to regain that 'used' space that's not showing any files on it. And I'll also post what HD is in the Fantom and what enclosure I have for the WD drive.


----------



## MikeAndrews

richsadams said:


> D'oh! Now I have to start all over again! Okay...who wants to be a guinea pig...um, pioneer?!


Me.  I just got 2 WD15EADS, intending to put one internal to the Series 3 that already has the 1TB Hitachi on an MX-1 external.

Is there reason to think the 1.5TB WD won't work because the WD10EADS doesn't(?)?

*sigh*

I was going to add one to my PC. I'd hate to think I'd have two for that and have go buy another drive for the TiVo.


----------



## richsadams

netringer said:


> Me.  I just got 2 WD15EADS, intending to put one internal to the Series 3 that already has the 1TB Hitachi on an MX-1 external.
> 
> Is there reason to think the 1.5TB WD won't work because the WD10EADS doesn't(?)?
> 
> *sigh*
> 
> I was going to add one to my PC. I'd hate to think I'd have two for that and have go buy another drive for the TiVo.


Hmmmm. It seems likely that the same soft reboot issue would raise its ugly head with the 1.5TB version of that drive, but without trying it's really an unknown.

The other issue is that IIRC you'd be going over the 2.2TB TiVo limit using a 1.5TB internal and 1TB external. Not sure if it would still work but only show 2.2TB's or not. AFAIK this is unexplored territory to a great extent but IIRC some folks have tried it. You might want to check w/Spike on the MFSlive.org forum.

That wasn't too helpful was it?  But I'd sure be interested in knowing how things turn out. TIA for being a pioneer! :up:


----------



## MikeAndrews

richsadams said:


> Hmmmm. It seems likely that the same soft reboot issue would raise its ugly head with the 1.5TB version of that drive, but without trying it's really an unknown.
> 
> The other issue is that IIRC you'd be going over the 2.2TB TiVo limit using a 1.5TB internal and 1TB external. Not sure if it would still work but only show 2.2TB's or not. AFAIK this is unexplored territory to a great extent but IIRC some folks have tried it. You might want to check w/Spike on the MFSlive.org forum.
> 
> That wasn't too helpful was it?  But I'd sure be interested in knowing how things turn out. TIA for being a pioneer! :up:


#1 One main reason I bought the WD (I was a Seagate believer like you) was because you had one (never mind those pesky slight differences in model numbers. It looked close.  ), the second was good reviews on the 10 vs Seagate's recent firmware disaster and third was the "green" power saving. I'm wondering why my electric bill is creeping up.

#2 I was willing to live with losing a little due to the 2.2 limit. I'm wondering where hyped 1000x1000MB meets real GB in that. I guess I could always downgrade replace the 1.5"TB "to a 1"TB".

I'm gonna take a stab. You'll hear soon.


----------



## Yuterald

richsadams said:


> Interesting info. Particularly since the Fantom uses WD HDD's. Can you give us the drive model numbers of both? (This is easy to determine by looking at the System Information screen when the drive is connected.)
> 
> Also can you please let us know which external enclosure you're using? It would seem more likely that it has something to do with the external enclosure but it's certainly possible the difference in the drives might be important in this case. Let us know more details when available. :up:


Ok - so it turns out my ipod suffle (also moved from one PC to the same one w/the new HDs) fried my USB ports. So I moved the HDs (never plugging in the ipod shuffle dock again) to a third PC and now I can't get pytivo to let me view the files from one of the HD's. Thus my lack of updated information. The one that does let me stream (from time to time when it 'feels' like it) has delay issues. This PC (like the other 2) are directly plugged into the router (in addition to the HDTivo I was testing). Frustrated - very frustrated and 2 more Fantom's should be delivered anyday.
PS - that system info screen is for the internal HD to the Tivo - not the external ones attached to my PC (unless i'm missing something which is possible!)


----------



## richsadams

Yuterald said:


> Ok - so it turns out my ipod suffle (also moved from one PC to the same one w/the new HDs) fried my USB ports. So I moved the HDs (never plugging in the ipod shuffle dock again) to a third PC and now I can't get pytivo to let me view the files from one of the HD's. Thus my lack of updated information. The one that does let me stream (from time to time when it 'feels' like it) has delay issues. This PC (like the other 2) are directly plugged into the router (in addition to the HDTivo I was testing). Frustrated - very frustrated and 2 more Fantom's should be delivered anyday.
> PS - that system info screen is for the internal HD to the Tivo - not the external ones attached to my PC (unless i'm missing something which is possible!)


Wow!  What a hassle...but it sounds like you're getting it sorted out now. Phew.

BTW, the System Info screen actually shows the hard drive model number of the eSATA drive (only) connected directly to TiVo.

Keep us posted!


----------



## Yuterald

I'm at the point where I"m going to uninstall pytivo and re-install it. If it continues to not work/function - i'll have no choice but to not use it and just have a ginormous list of DVDs by title to bring up using TiVo Desktop. I've tried everything I know


----------



## jlib

mr.unnatural said:


> After reading your post I went back and doublechecked my Tivo to confirm that I had the EVCS drive that I had reported earlier. I'm now sitting here with egg on my face because my system information screen is telling me I have the EAVS and not the EVCS. I checked my other S3 with the earlier version of the Fantom green drive and it has the EACS. I must have gotten the designations confused and reported the incorrect model. My sincere apologies to anyone that purchased a Fantom drive based on my misinformation. That being said, there's no reason why the EAVS drive won't work as an external drive (mine is working just fine).


I remember at the time that I thought it odd they would but a EVCS in the Fantom (intended for PC expansion) . Don't worry, no harm done. They are functionally equivalent from the perspective of the TiVo and are equally durable. The only issue is that one should test the default AAM acoustic setting on the EAVS and adjust down to 128 (the default for the EVCS) if higher.

WD 1TB Green Power Drives used in Tivo upgrades:

EAVS (8 MB cache, manually set AAM)
EACS (16 MB cache, manually set AAM)
EADS (32 MB cache, manually set AAM)
EVVS (8 MB cache, pre-set AAM, unused ATA-7 streaming)
EVCS (16 MB cache, pre-set AAM, unused ATA-7 streaming)
EVDS (32 MB cache, pre-set AAM, unused ATA-7 streaming)

Note that more than 8 MB cache offers no performance advantage (the TiVo is an extremely unchallenging application). The above drives are functionally equivalent as far as performance, quality and durability. So, save for the old S3 soft reboot issue, you can safely shop on price for any of the above.


----------



## bdj470

I have a Tivo Hd (not an XL). I also have the Western Digital Expander drive. When using the Expander drive my Tivo will freeze up every now and then. So much to the point where I had to disconnect the Expander drive to get any shows to record.

Is there a fix that I can do to help fix this problem? Since disconnecting the Expander drive I have not had a issue of my Tivo HD freezing up.


----------



## beobuff

bdj470 said:


> I have a Tivo Hd (not an XL). I also have the Western Digital Expander drive. When using the Expander drive my Tivo will freeze up every now and then. So much to the point where I had to disconnect the Expander drive to get any shows to record.
> 
> Is there a fix that I can do to help fix this problem? Since disconnecting the Expander drive I have not had a issue of my Tivo HD freezing up.


The eSATA cable supplied by WD is a loose fit to the jacks on the Tivo and the WD drive; it often causes occasional disconnections. You might first try reversing the cable, which is what worked for me. If that doesn't produce better results, replace the cable with one that provides a snugger fit. Or try padding the plugs with a tiny piece of tape placed where it won't obstruct the electrical connections.


----------



## keltraine

Hey guys, just wanted to update the thread for anyone else wondering the following:

Right before jlib posted the list of WD HDs (and indicated that they're basically equivalent), I was really torn b/w getting the 10EVCS and the 10EADS for my TivoHD (since the EVCS was recommended HD on the FAQ, but it seemed a little old/out-of-date and the EADS had some *nice* new specs) and so I msg'ed Rich Adams asking what he would do (WWRAD?) and he was kind enough to respond quickly and indicated that the EVCS should be fine, and that it's what he's using in his series3.

So thanks again to everyone who contributes and helps out folks, and an "especial" thanks to Rich for all his posts and comments on this thread and the forum--I'm sure it's appreciated by all the people like me who are wondering what to do!


----------



## keltraine

Ahh, and just so it's here in this thread (to reduce the amount of time others might spend on it) here's my reply to him and some info/links on the various HDs:

Thanks for the quick reply and your suggestion is the conclusion I was coming to too. Fwiw, I did find the Tom's HW articles on the two different WD Green Power lines (i.e. the WD10EACS vs the WD10EADS) and it basically says that the EADS is much better performing overall than the EACS (probably mainly due to the increased areal density; reducing from 4 to 3 platters), see:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/green-terabyte-1tb,2078-9.html

but that was more focused on whether or not it was good enough for use in a desktop...and I'd personally get a Caviar Black in that case for the best perf and since it seems reliable enough (based on 600+ or so review on Newegg, etc)!

And here's the article on the first generation of them in case you wanted to check it out:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/wd-caviar-gp,1703.html

But in any case, they didn't really have much info on the EVCS/AV line on Tom's; all that I found that mentioned it was:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/energy-disk-drive,1944-4.html

So knowing that the EVCS was designed for DVRs I think that's what I will go with, since the improvements on the EADS (increased areal density/perf and more cache) probably won't make a diff on the Tivo!


----------



## keltraine

One minor comment about the sticky upgrade thread (and thus a possible improvement):

When I first read Section 5, #17, point 9 where it says "and only connect the original Tivo drive", it threw me for a minute as I was trying to figure out how to get WinMFS to run if the Tivo drive was the only one connected to the PC...but I quickly figured out that wouldn't be possible and that I'd just read it wrong!

*Very* minor, but thought I'd mention it to (in case someone else doesn't quite get it and gets confused or asks about it). Since it's very important to be careful with these kinds of procedures, I was trying to interpret everything literally, but in this case, you can take it *too* literally apparently!


----------



## keltraine

One question about the actual upgrade procedure (and maybe another possible improvement):

Why does Section 5, #17, method A, point 9 say that you have to shut off your computer to connect the Tivo hard drive to it (the same with method A, point 13 when you remove it)? Is it just being cautious/safe since there are a lot of people who might not know how to deal with ejecting HDs, or is there a reason to do it that way?

What I mean is, I already have two external USB enclosures with 500 GB HDs in them; you can always safely remove USB devices after you stop them with the "Safely Remove Hardware" icon in the systray in Windows, which lets you basically hot swap/plug them even when the computer is on--so I should just be able to do this whole process if I did that w/o worrying about powering my PC off/on right (which would speed up the whole thing a lot, no)?!

Or is there some reason I would need to power my PC off/on as per the steps b/c of what WinMFS is doing or something like that? If not, is it as I surmised above and it'd be too hard to explain "well if you have an external USB case you can just do it w/o powering off your PC by stopping and safely ejecting the HD" b/c then the people with eSATA would think they could do the same thing and possibly have issues?

B/c while eSATA *is* hot-pluggable (letting you disconnect an eSATA device while the host device stays on), apparently it depends on if the chipset supports that as per: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/244782-32-esata-plug, and is it too dangerous to say you can do it most of the time with eSATA if your chipset supports it, and then have one person have issues b/c they didn't realize to check for support for that first, so you write the FAQ for the safest method/lowest common denominator possible?

Hmm, if not for the eSATA hot-plug issue dependent on the chipset, the whole FAQ could be updated to eliminate the whole powering off/on of PCs, which would speed things up a lot! I think it'd be much easier that way! Thoughts?


----------



## richsadams

keltraine said:


> So thanks again to everyone who contributes and helps out folks, and an "especial" thanks to Rich for all his posts and comments on this thread and the forum--I'm sure it's appreciated by all the people like me who are wondering what to do!


Aw shucks. [Kicking instep]. 

Seriously, bkdtv and Spike deserve all of the credit. The rest of us just follow in their very long shadows.


----------



## keltraine

Hehe, fair enough; I see bkdtv was the one who wrote the long and extremely detailed and accurate FAQ (thanks bkdtv!) and I've seen Spike's posts too--thanks guys!

Any thought on my latest post btw, the question about whether you really need to shut down when adding the HDs and using WinMFS?


----------



## bkdtv

keltraine said:


> Any thought on my latest post btw, the question about whether you really need to shut down when adding the HDs and using WinMFS?


With many USB adapters, is unnecessary to reboot the computer when switching drives. However, certain USB adapters won't work with a new drive until you restart your computer.

The instructions are written to accommodate everyone, including members who know very little about computers. For those with "tech" experience like yourself, a few steps may unnecessary and/or redundant.


----------



## keltraine

bkdtv said:


> ...The instructions are written to accommodate everyone, including members who know very little about computers. For those with "tech" experience like yourself, a few steps may unnecessary and/or redundant.


Awesome, thanks for the quick reply bkdtv! Like I said in one of my other posts, you typically want to take these instructions literally to make sure you're not taking unecessary or dangerous shortcuts, and since there wasn't any asterisk and/or comment about being able to skip that if you know what you're doing (which again, I understand why as some people would think they know when they don't!) I just wanted to make sure before I assumed it would be fine and then end up with a bricked hard drive or something!


----------



## jjeff

Does anyone know if any of the larger B&M stores sell any of the 1TB internal drives suggested in the OP?
I spent several hours today driving to Staples, Office Depot, Office Max, BB and a couple other big box stores. Most stores had very few if any internal HDDs and those who did, didn't have any of the HDDs listed in the OP. BB had the largest selection but again none that was on the list. I really prefer B&M and my last hope will be Micro Center across town. I'll try them Monday unless someone knows for sure.
I hate calling stores, most of the time nobody knows anything, and that's after spending 10 minutes on hold and going through the phone mazes.
Oh and maybe I missed it (but I thought I looked thoroughly) what type of drive does the Tivo HD use? IDE, SATA, eSATA Stores seem to have the drives grouped by type and if I knew what type it might save some time. keltraine spoke of eSATA in a recent post, is that what the Tivo uses?
Lastly, do I need anything other than the raw drive (such as power cables etc.) or do I just use everything from my old drive. I have no spare cables so if I need to buy one before hand I should.
Edit:
Per OP *Shut down Windows, turn off your computer, and connect only the original TiVo drive. You can open your computer and connect it with a SATA cable, or you can connect it externally with a SATA->USB adapter or a drive dock.*
Looks like I need to buy a SATA cable or the SATA>USB adapter (does this mean the drive is a SATA) and about what price should I expect for either the SATA cable or USB adapter?
I have screwdrivers (Torx etc) up the wazoo, so that won't be a problem and I have some old (10? year) PC ribbon cable but I don't suppose it would be a SATA cable...


----------



## bkdtv

jjeff said:


> Does anyone know if any of the larger B&M stores sell any of the 1TB internal drives suggested in the OP?
> I spent several hours today driving to Staples, Office Depot, Office Max, BB and a couple other big box stores. Most stores had very few if any internal HDDs and those who did, didn't have any of the HDDs listed in the OP. BB had the largest selection but again none that was on the list. I really prefer B&M and my last hope will be Micro Center across town. I'll try them Monday unless someone knows for sure.


You probably won't find any of the "made for DVR" drives at retail, since these aren't sold in retail packages. They are only sold in OEM packages; they are sold in sealed, plain brown boxes containing the drive in a sealed anti-static bag.

Since you have the TivoHD, any of the Western Digital "Green" drives will work fine. You may be able to find one of those locally. Be aware, however, that none of those drives come preconfigured for low-noise operation like the "made for DVR" drives. You can enable low-noise operation on those other drives using Hitachi Feature Tool, as described in Section IV, #31.



jjeff said:


> Oh and maybe I missed it (but I thought I looked thoroughly) what type of drive does the Tivo HD use? IDE, SATA, eSATA Stores seem to have the drives grouped by type and if I knew what type it might save some time. keltraine spoke of eSATA in a recent post, is that what the Tivo uses?


The TiVo uses SATA.

eSATA is just the external version of SATA connector. It's used for external drives.



jjeff said:


> Lastly, do I need anything other than the raw drive (such as power cables etc.) or do I just use everything from my old drive. I have no spare cables so if I need to buy one before hand I should.
> Edit:


You don't need any cables to connect the drive to the TiVo, but you may need a cable to connect it to your computer, if you aren't using a USB->SATA adapter to connect it externally.



jjeff said:


> Looks like I need to buy a SATA cable or the SATA>USB adapter (does this mean the drive is a SATA) and about what price should I expect for either the SATA cable or USB adapter?


USB->SATA adapters start at about $10 and go up to $20. I would probably buy the cheapest one you can find; just make sure it has an AC (power) adapter.

SATA cables start at a few bucks. When I did my first upgrade, I couldn't find my SATA cable, so I temporarily unplugged the one from my CDROM and used that. When I was done, I reconnected the cable to the CDROM. If you don't want to open your computer, and your computer doesn't have an eSATA connection on the back, then you should use a USB->SATA adapter.

If you have to order a USB->SATA adapter online, then you might as well order a Western Digital WD10EVCS or WD10EVVS from the same vendor. Amazon.com, Buy.com, and Provantage.com all sell those drives, as well as USB->SATA adapters.


----------



## jjeff

Thanks for clarifying. I've kind of got my heart set on the WD10EVCS mentioned in the OP. If I can't find that one (or maybe the WD10EVVS) at Micro Center then I'll try the mail order and probably order the USB->SATA adapter at the same time. My HP Pavilion Slimline PC has no external eSATA connector, only many USB connectors a Ethernet connector as well as a 1394 connector which looks similar to the USB ports. Since the PC has a small case I'd just as soon not take it apart (things are probably crammed tightly). I'm toying with buying 2 HDDs (one for spare). I figure I'll configure both at the same time, that way in the future all I'll need to do is install the second drive and I should be good to go. Hopefully storing the spare drive 3-5 years or how ever long the first drive lasts, won't hurt it.
Thanks for all the help, unlike the previous poster I have very little PC experience so I'll be reading your OP instructions to the letter when the time comes.


----------



## bkdtv

jjeff said:


> Thanks for clarifying. I've kind of got my heart set on the WD10EVCS mentioned in the OP. If I can't find that one (or maybe the WD10EVVS) at Micro Center then I'll try the mail order and probably order the USB->SATA adapter at the same time.


You're not going to find them at MicroCenter, so you can save yourself the trip. 

MicroCenter only sells drives for desktop PCs, and the drives above are intended for CE devices like DVRs.

WD10EVCS @ Amazon
WD10EVCS @ Buy.com

WD10EVVS @ Amazon
WD10EVVS @ Buy.com

Keep in mind you'll need 2x USB->SATA adapters if you want to copy all of your existing recordings. If you just want to copy the software and your settings (including season passes, wishlists, etc), then only one adapter is needed.



jjeff said:


> I'm toying with buying 2 HDDs (one for spare). I figure I'll configure both at the same time, that way in the future all I'll need to do is install the second drive and I should be good to go.


As part of the upgrade process, you create a backup image of the TiVo software (around 350MB in size). There's really no need to buy a second drive now, because you can easily restore that image to another drive in the future. You'll still have your original TiVo drive as a backup too.

Hard drives fall in price every year, and _eventually_, spike (the author of WinMFS) may figure out a way to allow a 2.0 TB upgrade on the TivoHD. In a few years, you'll probably be able to buy a 2.0 TB drive for less than the cost of a 1.0 TB drive today. In four or five years, a 2.0 TB drive will probably cost half what a 1.0 TB drive does today.


----------



## jjeff

bkdtv said:


> You're not going to find them at MicroCenter, so you can save yourself the trip.
> MicroCenter only sells drives for desktop PCs, and the drives above are intended for CE devices like DVRs.


Thanks for the tip, with gas going up again I think I'll save the trip then.

It looks like Newegg has the nicest selection of USB to SATA adapters but alas the don't seem to sell either of the 2 highest rated HDDs, only a WD that you said would not work, the WD10EADS
From your links Buy.com and Amazon.com sell the correct drive but I'm not too impressed with their USB to SATA adapters
Reading the customer reviews at newegg is rather scary. It seems like most USB to SATA adapters are really poor quality. The Roswell ($21.99 with free shipping) seems to have the least negative comments but at $44 (for the pair that I would want) they're not cheap(although with shipping at Buy and Amazon it's close to $20 each for ones reviewed much worse at newegg)

So I'm thinking of getting *one* HDD at either Buy or Amazon, any preference? and the Roswell adapters at Newegg for $21.99 each including shipping(anything cheaper(including shipping) that would be decent)?
Does this sound like a good plan?


----------



## bkdtv

jjeff said:


> Thanks for the tip, with gas going up again I think I'll save the trip then.
> 
> It looks like Newegg has the nicest selection of USB to SATA adapters but alas the don't seem to sell either of the 2 highest rated HDDs, only a WD that you said would not work, the WD10EADS


The WD10EADS does work with the TivoHD. It just has problems with the older TiVo Series3 model (based on reports from members).

The WD10EADS doesn't come pre-configured for low-noise operation, so you'd want to change that with Hitachi Feature Tools if you got that drive. That's unnecessary with the WD10EVCS and WD10EVVS.



jjeff said:


> From your links Buy.com and Amazon.com sell the correct drive but I'm not too impressed with their USB to SATA adapters
> Reading the customer reviews at newegg is rather scary. It seems like most USB to SATA adapters are really poor quality. The Roswell ($21.99 with free shipping) seems to have the least negative comments but at $44 (for the pair that I would want) they're not cheap(although with shipping at Buy and Amazon it's close to $20 each for ones reviewed much worse at newegg)


Keep in mind you are buying this adapter to use for, maybe, 20 minutes. And maybe once more in three to five years. It doesn't need to be a high-quality piece of equipment; it just needs to get the job done, and then it goes into storage.



jjeff said:


> So I'm thinking of getting *one* HDD at either Buy or Amazon, any preference? and the Roswell adapters at Newegg for $21.99 each including shipping(anything cheaper(including shipping) that would be decent)?
> Does this sound like a good plan?


Buy.com and Amazon.com are both reputable. I got mine from Buy.com, but I've heard Amazon does a better job with packing. Amazon seems to double-box, whereas Buy.com doesn't always do so.

Two adapters at $21.99/ea sounds pricey for something you are going to use so briefly. You need your existing recordings (and therefore a second adapter) that bad, ehh?

The $14.99 Sabrent USB->SATA adapter does seem to get good reviews (60/68 rated it Good or Excellent), with a handful of horror stories. The Rosewell you mentioned definitely sounds like a higher quality product -- I guess you'll have to decide whether it's worth the difference.


----------



## jlib

jjeff, you should at least open up your computer first to see what is available inside. If it is a modern computer the CDROM will be SATA and you can temporarily use its SATA and power cable for one drive. You can also see if there are any additional SATA connectors available on the motherboard that you would only need an inexpensive SATA cable for. You would also need to make sure there is a power connector available there or get a power cable splitter. Note that SATA drives use the black power connectors not the old white ones you remember. So, you should be able to get one and possibly two SATA connections internally which would affect the number of USB adapters, if any, you would need.


----------



## jlib

keltraine said:


> ...I did find the Tom's HW articles on the two different WD Green Power lines (i.e. the WD10EACS vs the WD10EADS) and it basically says that the EADS is much better performing overall than the EACS (probably mainly due to the increased areal density; reducing from 4 to 3 platters)...
> 
> ...So knowing that the EVCS was designed for DVRs I think that's what I will go with, since the improvements on the EADS (increased areal density/perf and more cache) probably won't make a diff on the Tivo!


Yes, you pretty much have a handle on the issues related to the TiVo. That is, the marginal performance increase in the second generation drive is irrelevant for our purposes. Someone looking for performance on their desktop is most like going to go with the Black Label series or Velociraptors anyway.

Note that the increase in performance of the latest generation GP drives with the reduced platter count is actually inadvertent and is due mainly to the increased areal density as you mention. The real goal was a reduced parts count in a cost cutting effort. What the review doesn't tell you is that WD also removed the top spindle bearing in its cost cutting efforts. The spindle on the newer 3 platter drives is supported only on the bottom just like cheap, low capacity drives. WD feels there is no problem doing that and I am sure they have done tests to show the lighter platter structure needs less support but at the same time there is also nothing wrong with the older series since it has way, way more performance than the TiVo can ever use and is arguably more rugged.

Finally, a more accurate way of thinking about AV or DVR drives is not so much that they are designed for DVRs but rather they are made for OEMs (like TiVo and other manufacturers) to design a DVR _around_. That is why they are called OEM drives and you never see them in retail packaging. If a particular OEM manufacturer does not design a DVR to use some of the advanced streaming features built into the firmware of an AV drive then there is _no_ advantage in using one over a regular drive, especially since they are mechanically identical otherwise.

The TiVo S3/HD were already being designed by the time the ATA-7 standards which created that drive genre were being proposed. In the future, the TiVO 4 just _may_ be able to make use of some of the advanced drive features but the main reasons drives like the EVCS are recommended here is because of a consistent compatibility record and, for lack of any better reason, the AAM head seek acoustics are already detuned for you. A couple years ago AV drives carried a large price premium so there was actually a reason to avoid them but now there is not a whole lot of difference. Shopping on price is the most sensible thing to do. Anyone who thinks that an AV drive is somehow _better_ for a TiVO probably also thinks premium gas is better in their Honda Civic.


----------



## jjeff

Thanks guys for all your help, I'm going with *one* WD10EVCS at Buy.com and *one* Roswell USB>SATA adapter at Newegg.com.
Per BKDTVs advice I figured why store a extra drive for 3-5 years before I might need it. I also figure I can watch or off load everything off my existing drive, that way I can save money only getting one adapter but I'll buy a quality one.
I decided against opening up the case on my PC, it's one of those small 1/3 size HPs and I figured since there is no room in the box for any more drives they probably wouldn't have any spare connectors and I didn't really want to disconnect my built in DVD burner, not for $22 anyway(the cost of the good adapter).
BTW this is the adapter in my cart at Newegg, I thought it was nice that the mfg. took the time to respond to a negative post, it tells me they value peoples opinions or at least take the time to respond to them.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812119152
I may be buying _premium_ gas but IMO the regular wasn't a lot less.
BTW I usually buy the cheapest _grade A_ regular gas for my _'05 Scion Xb_


----------



## richsadams

jjeff said:


> Thanks guys for all your help, I'm going with *one* WD10EVCS at Buy.com and *one* Roswell USB>SATA adapter at Newegg.com.<snip>


bkdtv gave you some sound advice (as usual) and both the drive and adapter should work just fine.

As you say, there's no real need for an extra hard drive. You have the original and you can put it on the shelf for safe keeping. You can always use it to be up and running right away if something goes wrong and the image will be good for another drive. I figure in another five years or so SSD hard drives will be the rule of the day...so who knows what you'll want by then?

Happy upgrading, welcome to the club and enjoy!


----------



## solsurfer

I just got a new TivoHD, and have a bunch of old directTivo drives laying around. Is it possible to expand the capacity by adding an additional internal drive (similar to the old zippper method)?

Also, I still have one of my HD DirectTivos hooked up in on of my rooms. Does anyone know if I can hack it to MRV the new tivo HD?

Thanks


----------



## richsadams

solsurfer said:


> I just got a new TivoHD, and have a bunch of old directTivo drives laying around. Is it possible to expand the capacity by adding an additional internal drive (similar to the old zippper method)?
> 
> Also, I still have one of my HD DirectTivos hooked up in on of my rooms. Does anyone know if I can hack it to MRV the new tivo HD?
> 
> Thanks


IIRC a couple of folks have done a dual-drive on a TiVo HD. I think it was more for the challenge than practicality. (TiVo HD uses SATA drives BTW.) I still have an old S1 on the shelf w/dual-drives. Ah...the good old days. I'd check on the MFSlive.org forum for the hard-core configurations. For most of us the time and trouble reconfiguring everything just isn't worth it.

Best to just save up a couple of bucks ($100 will get you 1TB now) and upgrade the internal hard drive, put the original on the shelf and be done with it. More info can be found on the sticky linked below my sig.

MRV won't work unless you can get your DT on a later software version (v8.4?...can't remember when they implemented it for cross-platform now). That's not to say that it's impossible I suppose. Someone may have sorted it out, but AFAIK no one has posted anything like that.

Enjoy your new TiVo!


----------



## pmalolepsy

I tried connecting an eSATA external drive to my Tivo HD and I got the following message...

"This device is unsupported and may not be set up"

...with no option to continue. My tivo is running version 11.0b. Does anybody know if they've removed the option to override the unsupported message? Is there any way around this?


----------



## richsadams

pmalolepsy said:


> I tried connecting an eSATA external drive to my Tivo HD and I got the following message...
> 
> "This device is unsupported and may not be set up"
> 
> ...with no option to continue. My tivo is running version 11.0b. Does anybody know if they've removed the option to override the unsupported message? Is there any way around this?


Welcome to the forum! Everything you could hope to know about upgrading your TiVo HD can be found on the first post of this sticky thread (also linked below my sig).

Unfortunately the only plug and play eSATA drive you can connect to your TiVo HD is the "verified" Western Digital My DVR Expander. (More here.) The older Series3 is able to accept other eSATA drives, but not the TiVo HD or HDXL.

That said, other eSATA drives can be connected or "married" to the TiVo HD, however that entails removing the internal drive (voiding the warranty if applicable) and connecting both the original and new drive to a PC and running a program called winMFS. The rule of thumb around here is that if you want to add more recording space to a TiVo HD, simply upgrade the internal drive and put the original on the shelf as a backup.

Hope that helps and happy upgrading!


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## eddielives

Sorry if this has been covered somewhere in this HUGE thread, but I had a question.
I currently have an extra WD500GB in my desktop. It's running as a backup drive. Can I upgrade my existing TivoHD drive with this drive? Do I need to wipe the 500GB first, or will it automatically reformat the drive with the Tivo software? I will be using the winmfs tool. Thanks in advance.

EDIT: I think I found my answer. I can, and I don't have to do anything to the 500GB with existing information on it. The software will take care of it.


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## jedispork

Is there anyway to transfer settings and recordings to a new drive without having them connected at the same time? I have a extra tb drive and was wondering 

Tivo drive > Temp drive> New Tivo drive

would this be possible?

The drive I want to use is a WD Caviar Green power 1tb. Not sure the exact model number but I've been using it for the past 8 months as my work drive. My work drives seem to go down every 1-2 years. I'm hoping its still solid. I was going to order the dvr expander but it seems they have a high failure rate. At first I was nervous about the idea of opening my tivo. I'm not very handy but I've built many computers and modified a original xbox so hopefully this will go smooth for me.


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## richsadams

eddielives said:


> EDIT: I think I found my answer. I can, and I don't have to do anything to the 500GB with existing information on it. The software will take care of it.


That's all correct. You may also want to adjust the Automatic Acoustical Management (AAM) settings down to 128 to make the drive quieter. You can use the Hitachi Feature Tool to do that at any time.


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## richsadams

jedispork said:


> Is there anyway to transfer settings and recordings to a new drive without having them connected at the same time? I have a extra tb drive and was wondering


You can but it would be somewhat complicated because you'd have to make an identical copy of your drive using "dd", a Unix program.

Most recent computers have several SATA connectors on the motherboard that would allow you to connect several hard drives at a time. If your optical drive is SATA you could use that connection as well. But if not you can buy an inexpensive SATA PCI card. Or if you're using a laptop, you should be able to utilize a USB/SATA adapter. All of the info on that can be found in the first post of this thread, Section V, number 17(b).

BTW if you have a TiVo Series3, read the post to make sure the drive you have is one that will work (many do not due to a soft reboot issue). If you have a TiVo HD there shouldn't be a problem upgrading with a WD GP drive.

If you've built computers, this will be a cakewalk. Even if you haven't, it's quite simple.

Happy upgrading!


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## eddielives

richsadams said:


> That's all correct. You may also want to adjust the Automatic Acoustical Management (AAM) settings down to 128 to make the drive quieter. You can use the Hitachi Feature Tool to do that at any time.


Rich,

I went ahead and bought a new Seagate 500GB HD (got it for a song/brand new). I'm running winMFS, and everything was going OK (I say "OK" even though it's taking a LONG time), but now it's telling me I have 1193042:05:53 remaining! An hour ago, I had around 3 hours left (I was 3 hours into it). Should I abort? Or should I check back in the morning? I got time... but not that much, as my wife is already asking when we get our TV back.
TIA


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## spocko

I have a WD10EACS-22D6B0 that is not currently being used. I believe this is a newer 3-platter version of the WD10EACS. Based on my reading of this thread, my understanding is that this drive is suitable for an internal drive replacement in a Tivo HD. Can somebody in the know please confirm? I understand that I'd need to adjust the drive acoustics manually. 

Thanks, and a special thank you to bkdtv for the excellent FAQ!


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## richsadams

eddielives said:


> Rich,
> 
> I went ahead and bought a new Seagate 500GB HD (got it for a song/brand new). I'm running winMFS, and everything was going OK (I say "OK" even though it's taking a LONG time), but now it's telling me I have 1193042:05:53 remaining! An hour ago, I had around 3 hours left (I was 3 hours into it). Should I abort? Or should I check back in the morning? I got time... but not that much, as my wife is already asking when we get our TV back.
> TIA


Hmmmm...that's a new one. I'd let it run overnight but if it looks similar tomorrow I'd pull the plug and start over again. I've no idea what would cause that if you've followed the instructions for winMFS correctly. I'm assuming that you're copying all of your recordings, etc. as copying the basic image only takes a few minutes.)

Let us know it goes, and whatever you do, keep momma happy!


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## richsadams

spocko said:


> I have a WD10EACS-22D6B0 that is not currently being used. I believe this is a newer 3-platter version of the WD10EACS. Based on my reading of this thread, my understanding is that this drive is suitable for an internal drive replacement in a Tivo HD. Can somebody in the know please confirm?


Yes the WD10EACS is suitable for a TiVo HD (not Series3) upgrade.


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## swezey

OK well... I'm back. I've been running my 2 Series 3 since XMAS now and everything is GREAT! Verizon came out and installed the cable cards THE SAME DAY WE CALLED! (I think the tech for our area lives near me). For those of you who don't remember, you all helped me decide which way to go, partly through this poll:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=412306

Anyway, as promised, it's now time to upgrade. While the recording time on the S3 was definitely a step up from the Verizon DVR, between my stuff, the wife's and the kids... well YGTP.

So, the question is, given you have 2 original S3's, would you simply add an external drive and be done with it or would you replace the internal and save the original as a backup? I understand that with the HD, most users simply upgrade the internal since their only external choice is the uber expensive My DVR Expander. However, part of my choice in getting the S3 was to have more (and less expensive) upgrade options (as well as better performance on TTG and MRV). So here are the issues:

1) Add on a 1TB external and be done with it. PROS: Easy. Fast. Fairly inexpensive. Saves all programming and shows. Uses storage from original drive for 1.25 TB total.

CONS: 2 points of failure. No backup drive. How old is the drive in these things anyway? How long do they last? I got both these units used. An extra "box" sitting out for the kids to get in and mess up (they get into EVERYTHING!)

2) Mirror the internal on a new 1TB and put the original away for a backup. PROS: Replace original drive with a newer, prob more reliable drive. Gives me a backup. Least expensive option (no external PS, cables or case needed for new drive). Nothing "extra" for the kids to get into. Fewer points of failure.

CONS: Must open Tivo. Takes longer esp. if copying all existing recordings. End up with only 1TB instead of 1.25TB.

I think I've summarised the P&C of these two options. Did I miss anything major? Anyway, bottom line is... Which way would you go? Why? I think I'm leaning towards adding the 1TB internally and keeping the original as a backup but it seems dumb to waste the 250GB. Or would I be playing with fire by keeping those original drives in service?? And if I do risk it and the drive takes a crap, am I in a world of hurt?? How easy (or hard) is it to get back up and running after a catastrophic crash? I realise I would lose any shows not backed up if that happens. What's the MTBF on the original S3 drives? Anyone know??

Anyway, as usual, thanks to everyone here for their thoughtful advice, suggestions and help! I really appreciate it!!


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## spocko

richsadams said:


> Yes the WD10EACS is suitable for a TiVo HD (not Series3) upgrade.


Thanks Rich! Since my Tivo is still under warranty I'm not going to upgrade just yet, but it's nice to know that I've got the parts handy when I can't resist the upgrade urge any longer.


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## eddielives

richsadams said:


> Hmmmm...that's a new one. I'd let it run overnight but if it looks similar tomorrow I'd pull the plug and start over again. I've no idea what would cause that if you've followed the instructions for winMFS correctly. I'm assuming that you're copying all of your recordings, etc. as copying the basic image only takes a few minutes.)
> 
> Let us know it goes, and whatever you do, keep momma happy!


Well, I jumped the gun (as usual). I fell asleep on the couch, and when I woke up, it was done!!. Took under 7 hours (much better than 1193042) I *did* transfer a lot of recordings which probably caused the longer time. All is well:up:. Thanx for the help.


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## hdeditor

System: TivoHD with stock internal drive married to "My DVR Expander" external drive. Both units out of warranty period.

The "My DVR Expander" external drive seems to be having issues. Kickstart tests show that the internal drive is fine but the TivoHD cannot run tests on the external drive (hdb). Spinrite is finding several severe errors on the external "My DVR Expander" drive. 

I have ordered one of the 1 TB drives recommended in the "Upgrade Internal Drive" table in the F.A.Q.. If I understand the F.A.Q., there is no way to connect both the TivoHD internal drive AND the external "My DVR Expander" drive to a PC, and then transfer recordings which were made since the "My DVR Expander" drive was married to the internal drive, and move them to the new 1 TB drive. I will be able to transfer recordings made only before the internal drive was married to the external drive. The reason, as I understand, is that the TivoHD creates sort of a RAID array so that new recordings are split across both drives. 

My question is, now that I stated in the above paragraph that the F.A.Q. says there's no way to do this , is there a way to transfer the recordings which are RAID'd on the internal and external drive and move them off to the PC so that I can restore them to the new 1 TB internal drive?


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## bkdtv

swezey said:


> Anyway, as usual, thanks to everyone here for their thoughtful advice, suggestions and help! I really appreciate it!!


If it were me, I would upgrade internally, because I don't like having a separate box.

One of the frustrating things about an external drive...is that when problems develop, you don't know whether the internal or external is at fault. You may have to remove one or both, connect them to your PC, and run diagnostics, because the built-in TiVo error reporting can't be relied upon to find all problems.



hdeditor said:


> My question is, now that I stated in the above paragraph that the F.A.Q. says there's no way to do this , is there a way to transfer the recordings which are RAID'd on the internal and external drive and move them off to the PC so that I can restore them to the new 1 TB internal drive?


That's correct. At the moment, there's no way to backup and restore the recordings from a TiVoHD internal+external setup to a single, larger internal drive.

About your only option is to transfer recordings [that aren't copy protected] to a PC or another TiVo, and then transfer them back after the upgrade is complete.


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## mr.unnatural

bkdtv said:


> If it were me, I would upgrade internally, because I don't like having a separate box.
> 
> One of the frustrating things about an external drive...is that when problems develop, you don't know whether the internal or external is at fault. You may have to remove one or both, connect them to your PC, and run diagnostics, because the built-in TiVo error reporting can't be relied upon to find all problems.


Personally, I'd think it would be relatively simple to troubleshoot your setup if you have an external drive. Just shut down the Tivo, disconnect the external drive, and connect it to your PC and run a diagnostic. If the drive fails the diagnostic, chances are you'll never have to open up the case to fool with the internal drive. Of course, if you had already upgraded the internal drive then you'll have to pull it anyway to remarry it to the new replacement external drive. It really all boils down to personal preference.


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## jlib

solsurfer said:


> I just got a new TivoHD, and have a bunch of old directTivo drives laying around. Is it possible to expand the capacity by adding an additional internal drive (similar to the old zippper method)?


Not in the old PATA master/slave sense you are thinking of. The few people who have added a second internal SATA drive really just rerouted the external drive connector to the interior and tapped into the drive power cable for power. The TiVo just sees it as an external drive. It is somewhat of a feat since there is no real easy place for a second drive. So, yes, it can be done but not for the faint of heart.


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## bareyb

mr.unnatural said:


> Personally, I'd think it would be relatively simple to troubleshoot your setup if you have an external drive. Just shut down the Tivo, disconnect the external drive, and connect it to your PC and run a diagnostic. If the drive fails the diagnostic, chances are you'll never have to open up the case to fool with the internal drive. Of course, if you had already upgraded the internal drive then you'll have to pull it anyway to remarry it to the new replacement external drive. It really all boils down to personal preference.


Not really... Having an external drive makes troubleshooting a _lot_ harder. Is it the "Power Brick" the eSATA cable? The Drive enclosure? Opens you up a whole bunch of possible problems. Disconnecting the drive and running diagnostics is a hassle. Plus, with an external drive you have to worry about the cables coming loose when you move the enclosure to clean etc. I am very happy I got rid of the "anchor" and went internal. My equipment rack is much neater, runs more quietly, and the whole system is much simpler this way. IMO Internal is the best way to go even if it is a bit more work initially.


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## jedispork

I have my tivo back up and running. I installed my old green power drive. At first it didn't seem to be showing up but then I had to use the delete format or whatever it was called and do a restart since it was a used drive on my main pc. 

The Tivo could be a little more sluggish than before. Maybe its just from the reboot or the drive is a bit slower? Not a big deal if everything still works properly.


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## Bilboz

TiVo HD upgraded from orig hdd to 
HITACHI 0A38016 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Using WinMfs 
Cost $85.00 with free shipping from NewEgg
Unit booted and is working.. While it was open I made a Y connector for the fan so i could plug in the original tivo fan plus add an additional fan to keep hdd cooler.


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## mr.unnatural

bareyb said:


> Not really... Having an external drive makes troubleshooting a _lot_ harder. Is it the "Power Brick" the eSATA cable? The Drive enclosure? Opens you up a whole bunch of possible problems. Disconnecting the drive and running diagnostics is a hassle. Plus, with an external drive you have to worry about the cables coming loose when you move the enclosure to clean etc. I am very happy I got rid of the "anchor" and went internal. My equipment rack is much neater, runs more quietly, and the whole system is much simpler this way. IMO Internal is the best way to go even if it is a bit more work initially.


The same problems exist for an internal drive. Is it the drive, the power supply, the internal SATA cable, mainboard, etc? The point I was trying to make is that if you have to pull a drive and run a diagnostic, the external drive is much easier to set up on a PC, and you don't have to shut down the PC or open it up to connect it in most instances. If it's the power "brick" then you should be able to spot that right away via any number of indicators (i.e., the LED doesn't come on, the drive won't spin up, or the internal fan makes no noise). If it's the cable, you'd simply have to swap it with another one (this is assuming that you have one available).

I've got two S3's with external enclosures (both 1TB Fantom Green Drives). The drives sit on a shelf behind my 60" Sony LCoS HDTV where they're completely out of sight from the viewing area yet have plenty of open space around them for ventilation.

FYI - if you have to move the enclosures around to clean then it just makes sense to check all cable connections to make sure they're secure. E-SATA cables tend to have a locking connector so they're less prone to becoming dislodged. You should also be shutting down the Tivo before moving the enclosure to make sure you don't accidentally disconnect the drive while it's powered on.


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## richsadams

Bilboz said:


> While it was open I made a Y connector for the fan so i could plug in the original tivo fan plus add an additional fan to keep hdd cooler.


Nice. :up: Did you happen to take any pictures that you can share? If not, can you give us a f'ew more details with regard to placment, fan model, cost, etc.? I expect it's a standard PC fan which are pretty cheap, but it's always good to get an "experts" feedback.

Ours actually runs cooler with a WD GP 1TB drive, but I'm always interested in options.

Congrats on the upgrade and enjoy!


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## bareyb

mr.unnatural said:


> FYI - if you have to move the enclosures around to clean then it just makes sense to check all cable connections to make sure they're secure. E-SATA cables tend to have a locking connector so they're less prone to becoming dislodged. *You should also be shutting down the Tivo before moving the enclosure* to make sure you don't accidentally disconnect the drive while it's powered on.


Shut down the TiVo before you dust? How is that NOT a hassle?  
We have cleaners that come twice a month and I got sick of them jerking the enclosures around and no, they didn't check the cables after they dusted. I always had to do that after I got home... 

I also had one of my enclosures develop an intermittent problem with the muffin fan where it would "rub" on the enclosure and make a bunch of noise. It was a pain. I am happy to be rid of the external enclosures. Just one less thing to trouble shoot and deal with. External is "easier" for most people to set up, but if you have the Skilz, internal is the only way to go IMO. To each their own.


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## ThAbtO

richsadams said:


> I expect it's a standard PC fan which are pretty cheap, but it's always good to get an "experts" feedback.


The Tivo fan is a 70mm size and a typical PC fan is a 80mm or 120mm.


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## richsadams

ThAbtO said:


> The Tivo fan is a 70mm size and a typical PC fan is a 80mm or 120mm.


Um...yes, that's true but they also come in much smaller sizes. I actually discovered that while building computers, both big and small over the years. Guess that's why I asked the OP for some additional details about what he used.


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## ThAbtO

richsadams said:


> Um...yes, that's true but they also come in much smaller sizes. I actually discovered that while building computers, both big and small over the years. Guess that's why I asked the OP for some additional details about what he used.


I'm not sure how he could piggyback a 2nd fan in the THD, it sits on the case beside the MB with no room to spare.


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## richsadams

ThAbtO said:


> I'm not sure how he could piggyback a 2nd fan in the THD, it sits on the case beside the MB with no room to spare.


Precisely...hence my query. Curious to know what he actually put in there! I mean you could lay one in there in a couple of places but it wouldn't be vented, at least normally.


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## fred2

My upset is starting to mellow.

I came home and when I turned on my TV - well, Tivo display device, I saw the fateful message that my External Drive was not connected.

I powered the tivo off, on, waited, same message. Off/on and again that message.

Checked my known UNdisturbed cables. Same message.

Powered on/off the FAP (Seagate Free Agent Pro for those new to this discussion). Same result.

Disentangled lots of wires and dragged the FAP to my computer - not a "usb ding" was to be heard. On/off again and again. Still no life.

Dragged to other computer - No "usb ding" here either. And the unit is is almost as cold as a black granite tombstone. There is heat at its base but I believe the structure ran warm also.

I guess I have some kind of guaranty on it but MY SHOWS (sniff)............ are gone.

Torrents here I come.....

Ideas, anyone???

PS - I decided it was DEAD, DEAD, DEAD. Divorced it. Already filled out the warranty info and a new one is on the way!!!! I have a feeling it will be a computer backup drive as I explore new external drive options. Unless someone can convince me that installing a INTERNAL drive by copying my existing tivo drive will work - ORIGINAL S3, by the way.

I do have an Antec with tetra WD inside that turned into a backup computer drive. I guess I could copy all of that elsewhere (very slowly) and use that externally. I don't recall which model WD it is and know that some of them cannot be used inside a tivo s3.


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## richsadams

fred2 said:


> I came home and when I turned on my TV - well, Tivo display device, I saw the fateful message that my External Drive was not connected.


Sorry to hear that your external drive has gone to the great server in the sky. These things happen and no one knows why. Well, some do, but does it really matter? Seagate makes some great products, but I always felt that the FAP's were much better suited to PC work where they could spin down and have a prolonged life.

I decided to dump the eSATA drive I had (Seagate DB35/MX-1) and upgrade the internal drive on our Series3 a long time ago. I've never regretted it. One less fail point is a good thing in my book.

It is sad that you lost your recordings but if everything is running well there's no reason that you can't use your OEM drive to image a new one (1TB?). Just follow the easy directions (and HDD recommendations) on the first post and you'll be back in business in no time.


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## keenanSR

fred2 said:


> PS - I decided it was DEAD, DEAD, DEAD. Divorced it. Already filled out the warranty info and a new one is on the way!!!! I have a feeling it will be a computer backup drive as I explore new external drive options. Unless someone can convince me that installing a INTERNAL drive by copying my existing tivo drive will work - ORIGINAL S3, by the way.
> 
> I do have an Antec with tetra WD inside that turned into a backup computer drive. I guess I could copy all of that elsewhere (very slowly) and use that externally. I don't recall which model WD it is and know that some of them cannot be used inside a tivo s3.


Are they asking for the "dead" drive back? Are you sure the drive is dead, and not just the case electronics? I had a Seagate external that "died" on me, I tore the case apart to get the raw drive out, hooked it up direct via SATA and it was fine, still using it in fact.


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## fred2

keenanSR said:


> Are they asking for the "dead" drive back? Are you sure the drive is dead, and not just the case electronics? I had a Seagate external that "died" on me, I tore the case apart to get the raw drive out, hooked it up direct via SATA and it was fine, still using it in fact.


No, it could certainly be the case electronics that are bad and not the actual spinning platters-component. Are you saying you were able to continue to use it with a Tivo and all of its intact data or just that it continued to function well without its "sexy" clothes?

Alas, since I did not want to lose another night/day's worth of recording, I divorced it, so to Tivo, there'd be no going back - its contents will not remarry with my Tivo. It might work in a new marriage. But since Seagate will replace it, I went for that. But having read it can be a problematic marriage, I will not use the replacement with my Tivo, just for another backup on my desktop.

It is too bad, Tivo went for the structure/indexing/whatever it did that does not allow an external drive to hold data independently of the mothership. (even if it had been coded to not share with another's Tivo)


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## richsadams

keenanSR said:


> Are they asking for the "dead" drive back? Are you sure the drive is dead, and not just the case electronics? I had a Seagate external that "died" on me, I tore the case apart to get the raw drive out, hooked it up direct via SATA and it was fine, still using it in fact.


Keep in mind that the three-year warranty is voided if the enclosure is opened on an FAP. Guess it's a choice of taking a chance that the recordings could be saved or getting a replacement drive.


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## keenanSR

fred2 said:


> No, it could certainly be the case electronics that are bad and not the actual spinning platters-component. Are you saying you were able to continue to use it with a Tivo and all of its intact data or just that it continued to function well without its "sexy" clothes?
> 
> Alas, since I did not want to lose another night/day's worth of recording, I divorced it, so to Tivo, there'd be no going back - its contents will not remarry with my Tivo. It might work in a new marriage. But since Seagate will replace it, I went for that. But having read it can be a problematic marriage, I will not use the replacement with my Tivo, just for another backup on my desktop.
> 
> It is too bad, Tivo went for the structure/indexing/whatever it did that does not allow an external drive to hold data independently of the mothership. (even if it had been coded to not share with another's Tivo)


The drive was not used with a TiVo, it was attached to a PC, but the principle is the same, I don't see why it wouldn't work. But it was good experience as I never used a "boxed" external drive again, and with my S3 I went with a raw drive and Antec MX-1 setup and have never looked back.

Something to think about though if the situation arises again in the future, losing all your recordings is a major bummer.


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## keenanSR

richsadams said:


> Keep in mind that the three-year warranty is voided if the enclosure is opened on an FAP. Guess it's a choice of taking a chance that the recordings could be saved or getting a replacement drive.


Exactly, the data that was on the drive was more important to me to try and recover than getting the drive replaced, and in my case it worked out in my favor.


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## fred2

Oh, forgot to answer - YES, they want the old drive back. 

I am not always reluctant to open up devices but I don't see any easy access (I don't know if the case is glued/screwed/other). 

I also don't know what the "marriage license" contains - removing the drive from its case might have changed the clues Tivo uses to determine if it is the same drive or a new one. Maybe if I had discovered it earlier in the day, I might have gone digging. 

Maybe someone can help me another way - this drive had usb and I gather, estata. I also see mention of sata (no "E"). Is there a difference? Would the raw drive been able to plug into the esata cord (still dangling off the tivo) or would a new enclosure been required?

I should probably not admit this but I have no idea what my new desktop computer supports. I know it has usb ports, firewire ports. There is a card in the bottom slot (external) that has two ports, a wider one and a very narrow one. I guess I should call my dealer! (G)


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## fred2

keenanSR said:


> The drive was not used with a TiVo, it was attached to a PC, but the principle is the same, I don't see why it wouldn't work. But it was good experience as I never used a "boxed" external drive again, and with my S3 I went with a raw drive and Antec MX-1 setup and have never looked back.
> 
> Something to think about though if the situation arises again in the future, losing all your recordings is a major bummer.


On this drive, they certainly hide the manner of closure. It is almost too elegant! I would be more reluctant to send in a drive with lots of computer/personal data than just tivo recordings.

I will probably go with the Antec when I hook up my next external. Of course, if a raw drive in Antec were to glitch majorly, there would not be much hope of recovery.

I will probably move the Antec/drive data to the new FAP and then connect that the antec to the tivo.

Coincidence or not: This appears to have happened after I used Tivo Desktop to move 5 OLDER recordings to my computer the night before. I don't know exactly when it failed as I sat down last evening to watch and there was the ERROR MESSAGE about external gone. But probably a coincidence as the activity was merely accessing the drive to copy data off....


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## richsadams

fred2 said:


> I am not always reluctant to open up devices but I don't see any easy access (I don't know if the case is glued/screwed/other).


There were posts very early on about FAP's having problems w/TiVo and a couple of brave folks opened the cases. IIRC it pretty much destroyed the case, so probably not wise unless you don't care about the warranty.



fred2 said:


> I also don't know what the "marriage license" contains - removing the drive from its case might have changed the clues Tivo uses to determine if it is the same drive or a new one. Maybe if I had discovered it earlier in the day, I might have gone digging.


 TiVo recognizes the external drive by the actual HDD full model number. If the drive were serviceable and you were to use the drive in another enclosure it shouldn't be a problem (as keenanSR did successfully).



fred2 said:


> Maybe someone can help me another way - this drive had usb and I gather, estata. I also see mention of sata (no "E"). Is there a difference? Would the raw drive been able to plug into the esata cord (still dangling off the tivo) or would a new enclosure been required?


The "e" in "eSATA" is shorthand for "external". The basic HDD is a Serial ATA or SATA. Yes, the drive itself would have a normal SATA connector and could plug directly into any motherboard w/SATA connectors.



fred2 said:


> I should probably not admit this but I have no idea what my new desktop computer supports. I know it has usb ports, firewire ports. There is a card in the bottom slot (external) that has two ports, a wider one and a very narrow one. I guess I should call my dealer! (G)


If it's a newer computer it should have several SATA connectors...possibly up to eight. They're used for the HDD's, optical drives (CD ROM/DVD ROM), etc. The external connectors are probably USB, Firewire 400 or 800 and possibly eSATA...but hard to say without eyeballing them.


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## keenanSR

My wasn't a FAP, it was a different model, don't recall which, but the case was near-impregnable. I had to literally bust it apart to get to the drive, but it was worth it.


----------



## Nelson2009

I'm new to TiVo and first time post this I do own Replaytv. I bought new TiVo HD and had to for 3 weeks with M-Card. I love it so far. 
I did ordered WD10ECVS from Amazon and upgraded it last nite. I following the instruction on this post it was nice simple step by step. 
On my first atempt that didn't go to well. I was having a trouble with rebooting then Green Screen. I had to wait for Green Screen go away about 1 1/2 then it was keep rebooting. I figuring the WINMFS might have bad back up. I redo again at second time with WINMFS. I checked 2 files i did backup on first one was 106MB and second it was 405MB. Look like WinMFS didn't do whole job backup from TiVo drive at first time?. I went on restore it and Finally TiVo HD boot up NICE. WHEW! One thing i learned my mistake that I didn't disable virus protection at first time. I did at second time. i'm not i'm not sure if anyone had this issue with virus protection on. I guess it alway recommend disable virus. Maybe you might want to add on board to remind everyone to disable virus protection? 
I did checked my TiVo HD system information show 157 hours for HD. HOW SWEET! Thanks for great instruction. 
Nelson


----------



## rmstone

External HD not working.

I think the power supply on my Antex is failing. I lost power a few hours ago, and my TIVOHD wouldn't come back up, because it said the external HD was not detected. I made sure all of the connections were good. But I noticed the little green LED light on the Antec power supply was flashing. 

Does anyone know if this is normal?


----------



## richsadams

rmstone said:


> External HD not working.
> 
> I think the power supply on my Antex is failing. I lost power a few hours ago, and my TIVOHD wouldn't come back up, because it said the external HD was not detected. I made sure all of the connections were good. But I noticed the little green LED light on the Antec power supply was flashing.
> 
> Does anyone know if this is normal?


A flashing green light on the MX-1's power supply would not be normal. I'd contact Antec and ask them if they are able to send you a replacement power supply of if you have to return everything.

If you have to send everything back you have a choice. If you have to have TiVo in the interim you'll need to disconnect and divorce the drive from TiVo, (instructions here) remove your hard drive and reinstall it in the new enclosure when it arrives. Unfortunately the drive will be reformatted and all of the recordings made since you attached it originally will be lost.

OR if you can live w/o TiVo until the new enclosure arrives you can simply leave TiVo off, move the drive to the new enclosure when it arrives, fire it up, fire TiVo up and be back in business. Alternately you could put your drive into a different enclosure and it should work as well, but the MX-1 is (generally) a very good enclosure. FWIW Antec is very good about replacing defective enclosures (and likely power supplies) based on several posts here. Hopefully they can just sent you a new power supply.

BTW, the best thing you can do is to have both your TiVo and your eSATA drive connected to a good UPS (all of ours have their own UPS) or power conditioner. That will ensure that spikes, power failures, etc, will not affect your equipment. Even if they survive those issues, serious data loss can still occur so an ounce of prevention, etc.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


----------



## hdeditor

fred2 said:


> I am not always reluctant to open up devices but I don't see any easy access (I don't know if the case is glued/screwed/other).


I opened up my Expander drive. After breaking a couple of slide plastic tabs on the side, I realized how it was intended to be opened.

The main case is "U" shaped, the cover is "C" shaped. There are a couple of long plastic tabs that you can press in into the long sides of the cover, through the vent holes. On one side, the tab is through one of the vent holes in the center; on the other side, the tab is offset from the center. If you press the two tabs inward at the same time, the case should slide off toward the indicator light. (As I said, since I broke a slide plastic tabs, it doesn't quite go back together the way it was intended, so this is what I theorize after taking it apart).

The drive looks to be connected with the same combo Sata-power connector as is in the Tivo HD.

Careful with the rubber-like surround, it tears easily!

Maybe I go back in and take some pictures, would that help?


----------



## fred2

hdeditor said:


> I opened up my Expander drive. After breaking a couple of slide plastic tabs on the side, I realized how it was intended to be opened.
> 
> The main case is "U" shaped, the cover is "C" shaped. There are a couple of long plastic tabs that you can press in into the long sides of the cover, through the vent holes. On one side, the tab is through one of the vent holes in the center; on the other side, the tab is offset from the center. If you press the two tabs inward at the same time, the case should slide off toward the indicator light. (As I said, since I broke a slide plastic tabs, it doesn't quite go back together the way it was intended, so this is what I theorize after taking it apart).
> 
> The drive looks to be connected with the same combo Sata-power connector as is in the Tivo HD.
> 
> Careful with the rubber-like surround, it tears easily!
> 
> Maybe I go back in and take some pictures, would that help?


Photos would be most helpful for the next time

In the meantime, the FAP concept has been abandoned in favor of the Antec with a WD 1tetra drive inside. I followed the advice/info in Message One of this thread re: Orig S3 Tivo, adding non-supported external. After debating for about a week, this afternoon, then the Tivo was otherwise idle, I powered it off, connected the antec-combo, powered on and married the two. The unit rebooted and I was presented with a vague "do it again type screen" but I gather it was only a confirmation 'do you want to do this" at which point it was married.

More space and we shall see.

Meanwhile the ahem, "two-day replacement" FAP is now ground-shipping about a week. I may call them or just wait it out. It will, as suggested above, be additional COMPUTER storage. Meanwhile, the get the Antec-combo ready, I did some very needed housekeeping of files. I did lose some stuff that would have been nice to have but things happen.....

Thanks, all.


----------



## mchief

After 18 months the expander went belly-up. Reboot cycle. Divorced and TivoHD is fine. Hooked the expander up to an external sata port on my Vista computer and nada.

Since the 1 year warranty is history, I removed the drive (project) from the enclosure and hooked it up to an internal sata port and eveything is fine. Formatted and now have another 500GB internal drive.

My next step will be an internal 1TB upgrade to the TivoHD. 

Question - is the WD10EVCS still the way to go? The Hitachi 1TB is about 80 bucks higher. Is the Hitachi a better drive?


----------



## greg_burns

mchief said:


> Question - is the WD10EVCS still the way to go? The Hitachi 1TB is about 80 bucks higher. Is the Hitachi a better drive?


The WD10EVCS is definately a good choice. I've been running it in my S3 since last year sometime.


----------



## bareyb

mchief said:


> Question - is the WD10EVCS still the way to go? The Hitachi 1TB is about 80 bucks higher. Is the Hitachi a better drive?


The Hitachi has double the cache size and that certainly couldn't hurt, but it sounds like they both work very well and I'd guess you couldn't go wrong with either one.


----------



## bkdtv

Note larger cache does not matter in a DVR. Cache helps with sequential I/O. The TiVo does random I/O most of the time, for which the extra cache does next to nothing.


----------



## mchief

Thanks guys, I order the WD10EVCS from Amazon at $106.


----------



## Burger23

Ive searched this Forum and cannot figure out where to start.

Issue: endless reboots on Tivo HD. Tried Kickstart 57 and 58. Does not work- never get past black screen.

I bought my TiVo the day it came out- maybe 2 years ago. At that time the eSata external port was not activated- the only way to increase storage was some kind of hack. I believe that I used MFS hack to replace the original drive (80Gb) with a 750 Gb drive. If I recall, the hack partitioned the drive- one partition for the system- the other with the data.

Then, later, after the eSata port was activited by TiVo, I added an eSata drive- I think I used Step 10 to setup my 500Gb External eSata drive.

What I hope to do was to replace the bad system on th einternal drive with a new system- doing the same hack over again. _(1.Download the MFSLive Linux Boot CD image and burn it as a CD. Boot your PC from the CD.)_ And hopefully the other data partition will be intact and I will not lose my saved shows.

Will this affect any shows that may be stored on this drive?


----------



## Burger23

Issue: endless reboots on Tivo HD. Tried Kickstart 57 and 58. Does not work- never get past black screen.

I bought my TiVo the day it came out- maybe 2 years ago. At that time the eSata external port was not activated- the only way to increase storage was MFS hack. I replaced the original drive (80Gb) with a 750 Gb drive. If I recall, the hack partitioned the drive- one partition for the system- the other with the data.

Now I hope to replace the bad system with a new system- doing the same hack over again. And hopefully the other data partition will be intact and I will not lose my saved shows. Also, once TiVo activate the eSata port, I believe that I used this hack also to add my 500Gb external ESata drive.

Anyway, would like to try to restore hacked internal hard drive system partition- I am pretty sure it is what I used (step 11). I wonder if restoring the image:

_1.Download the MFSLive Linux Boot CD image and burn it as a CD. Boot your PC from the CD._

Will this affect any shows that may be stored on this drive?


----------



## greg_burns

Burger23 said:


> Issue: endless reboots on Tivo HD. Tried Kickstart 57 and 58. Does not work- never get past black screen.
> 
> I bought my TiVo the day it came out- maybe 2 years ago. At that time the eSata external port was not activated- the only way to increase storage was MFS hack. I replaced the original drive (80Gb) with a 750 Gb drive. If I recall, the hack partitioned the drive- one partition for the system- the other with the data.
> 
> Now I hope to replace the bad system with a new system- doing the same hack over again. And hopefully the other data partition will be intact and I will not lose my saved shows. Also, once TiVo activate the eSata port, I believe that I used this hack also to add my 500Gb external ESata drive.
> 
> Anyway, would like to try to restore hacked internal hard drive system partition- I am pretty sure it is what I used (step 11). I wonder if restoring the image:
> 
> _1.Download the MFSLive Linux Boot CD image and burn it as a CD. Boot your PC from the CD._
> 
> Will this affect any shows that may be stored on this drive?


So you have a TivoHD that you upgraded the internal drive to 750GB (from the standard 160GB) and added an external drive? Now you want to replace the internal drive with something... a 1TB?

It is my understanding you cannot change the internal drive without first divorcing your external drive. (Which means loosing most, if not all recordings).

You could probably safely "dd" (a linux copy command) your 750GB to another same size or larger internal drive, but without gaining any space and not having to divorce the external. But not 100% positive. (I am thinking you might wanna try this if you suspect the internal drive is going bad.)

If it were me, I would offload yours shows via TivoDesktop to a computer. Then divorce the external and see if the reboots stop before trying anything else. Or pull the internal drive and test it with a PC for errors using Hitachi or Wester Digital diagnostic software. Not sure you can use that software with the approved external Tivo drive or not without removing it from its enclosure.


----------



## xpattheratx

Hi everyone! Sorry for my newbie-ness here. I bought a Fantom G-Force 500 GB external hard drive (GF500EU) and I took apart my Tivo .. did the whole marry MFS add thing put the tivo back together and now it gives me a green screen saying the DVR cannot recognize the drive. I waited 3+ hours but the TIVO just keeps rebooting itself. I took it apart again and tried to marry both drives again but it says the western digital internal drive of the TIVO is not a recognized tivo drive. I know I voided the warranty.. and i just wanna know what i did wrong and if it can be fixed?? Any help is much appreciated. The wifey is mad now that I broke the TIVO. Please help!! Thanks!!


----------



## Burger23

greg_burns said:


> So you have a TivoHD that you upgraded the internal drive to 750GB (from the standard 160GB) and added an external drive? Now you want to replace the internal drive with something... a 1TB?
> 
> It is my understanding you cannot change the internal drive without first divorcing your external drive. (Which means loosing most, if not all recordings).
> 
> You could probably safely "dd" (a linux copy command) your 750GB to another same size or larger internal drive, but without gaining any space and not having to divorce the external. But not 100% positive. (I am thinking you might wanna try this if you suspect the internal drive is going bad.)
> 
> If it were me, I would offload yours shows via TivoDesktop to a computer. Then divorce the external and see if the reboots stop before trying anything else. Or pull the internal drive and test it with a PC for errors using Hitachi or Wester Digital diagnostic software. Not sure you can use that software with the approved external Tivo drive or not without removing it from its enclosure.


Thanks for the reply- really appreicate it. I will try TiVo Desktop tomorrow- I am not sure it can see the hard drive(s) since I never get anything but a black screen. When I trioed Kickstart 57 and 58, the red, green, amber lights did appear on casr front- then they immediately disppeared whe 57 entered. I take this as an indication that somethin on the hard drive is working. But whatever checkdisk function is going on never completes, and the cycle starts over (green light flickers every 5 minutes or so). SO maybe Desktop TiVo can read the disk. Tomorrow...


----------



## ThAbtO

You cannot used Tivo Desktop on the Tivo unless its working and online on your network.


----------



## [email protected]

Engadget is reporting that Amazon is taking pre-orders for 1TB WD (WDG1S10000N) TiVo compatible expansion drives:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/04/12/western-digital-dvr-expander-preorders-apricorn-add-ons/

Here is a link to Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1239601413&sr=8-3

J&R Music is showing them as as in stock and TiVo compatible.

Has TiVo confirmed the existence and compatibility of these units?


----------



## richsadams

xpattheratx said:


> Hi everyone! Sorry for my newbie-ness here. I bought a Fantom G-Force 500 GB external hard drive (GF500EU) and I took apart my Tivo .. did the whole marry MFS add thing put the tivo back together and now it gives me a green screen saying the DVR cannot recognize the drive.


Welcome to the forum and sorry to hear about your frustrating experience. I guess my first question/observation would be, why didn't you just get the approved WD My DVR Expander? I'm assuming it's because of the price, ($69.99 Vs $99.99). For $30 I guess I would have gone with the approved drive plugged it in and saved a lot of time and trouble...but that's just me.  That wasn't too helpful though was it?

If you try booting up TiVo without the external drive connected and get the "unrecognized" error message it sounds like the OS data on the internal drive was corrupted. If that only happens when the external drive is connected, there's an issue with the external drive.

If it's the first case (won't boot up with or without the external drive connected) your best bet is to buy Instant Cake ($19.99) and re-image the internal hard drive.

If the external drive is the problem you should return it as defective and just get the approved WD My DVR Expander.

It's obvious that you're comfortable opening TiVo and connecting drives to a PC so if it were me I'd simply replace the internal hard drive in your TiVo and be done with it. The recommended 1TB Western Digital WD10EVCS can be found for about about $110 or less. If you follow the instructions in the first post of this thread you can use your original hard drive to image the new one and be back in business in no time. If your original internal hard drive is actually corrupted you'll still need to buy Instant Cake for a fresh image. Either way you'll have 1TB of recording space, one less fail point and basically a brand new TiVo.

Best of luck and let us know how things go.


----------



## richsadams

Burger23 said:


> When I trioed Kickstart 57 and 58, the red, green, amber lights did appear on casr front- then they immediately disppeared whe 57 entered. I take this as an indication that somethin on the hard drive is working. But whatever checkdisk function is going on never completes, and the cycle starts over (green light flickers every 5 minutes or so). SO maybe Desktop TiVo can read the disk. Tomorrow...


A successful KS57 will generate an mfs assert screen (also known as the GSOD). If you're not seeing that after KS57 it's likely that your hard drive is failing.

BTW, KS58 is transparent. Repairs are made and the unit will reboot. If/when it reboots things should be normal again. If not, the repairs were either beyond TiVo's capabilities or the hard drive is failing.

Did you try the Kickstart 54 hard drive diagnostic? It may or may not work. Again if not, it's probably time to replace the hard drive.

As ThAbtO mentions, if you can't get TiVo working properly, TiVo Desktop won't be able to transfer recordings to your PC.

Best of luck!


----------



## Yuterald

Amazon is taking pre-orders for the 1TB WD eSATA Drive @$183.


----------



## myklup

[email protected] said:


> Has TiVo confirmed the existence and compatibility of these units?


TiVo support has not confirmed their support of them - but the TiVo certified sticker is on the box and the drive itself. WD Knows they exist and support them.

There's a thread in the Series 3 forum with more info - but they do in fact work (at least on both of my Tivo HD's) as of a non-software-version upgrade made in the last week or so

I got mine from jr.com for $179.99 /free shipping


----------



## CaseyK24

I first wanted to thank the board and bkdtv for the great step by step procedures that worked like a charm.

I have two quick questions - just for peace of mind really - everything worked great.

I installed a WD10EVCS with SuperSize on. The recording and playback quality should be no different then before correct? I'm just being super critical analyzing the picture after the install probably seeing small broadcast quality issues that were always there but never bothered to notice. 

Also - while playing with the TivoHD with the new drive the first night I experienced a random soft reboot. It only happened once and I was recording two shows and transferring one while flipping back and forth between Playing List grouping settings. There is no know issue with soft reboots with the TivoHD and the WD10EVCS is there? One time does not make a pattern and I'm not too worried but couldn't find anything on the forum besides talk of an old S3 soft reboot issue with some other drives.

Thanks,
Casey


----------



## richsadams

CaseyK24 said:


> I first wanted to thank the board and bkdtv for the great step by step procedures that worked like a charm.
> 
> I have two quick questions - just for peace of mind really - everything worked great.
> 
> I installed a WD10EVCS with SuperSize on. The recording and playback quality should be no different then before correct? I'm just being super critical analyzing the picture after the install probably seeing small broadcast quality issues that were always there but never bothered to notice.


Hi Casey and welcome to the 1TB Club! MFS Supersize simply frees up extra space reserved for storing tivoclips; the advertising videos that are downloaded. Having it on or off should have not have any effect on anything.



CaseyK24 said:


> There is no know issue with soft reboots with the TivoHD and the WD10EVCS is there?


Not AFAIK. There are no posts to that effect to date. You should be fine.

Enjoy! :up:


----------



## richsadams

On sale (as of this posting) Western Digital WD10EADS for $93.80 including shipping.

As noted in the first post of this sticky, this drive will NOT work as an internal hard drive upgrade in Series3's due to a soft reboot problem. Use the recommended WD10EVCS instead.

This drive is good for TiVo HD's though or it could also be used to build an eSATA drive for Series3's. Consult the first post for more info.


----------



## Burger23

Burger23 said:


> Issue: endless reboots on Tivo HD. Tried Kickstart 57 and 58. Does not work- never get past black screen.
> 
> I bought my TiVo the day it came out- maybe 2 years ago. At that time the eSata external port was not activated- the only way to increase storage was MFS hack. I replaced the original drive (80Gb) with a 750 Gb drive. If I recall, the hack partitioned the drive- one partition for the system- the other with the data.
> 
> Now I hope to replace the bad system with a new system- doing the same hack over again. And hopefully the other data partition will be intact and I will not lose my saved shows. Also, once TiVo activate the eSata port, I believe that I used this hack also to add my 500Gb external ESata drive.
> 
> Anyway, would like to try to restore hacked internal hard drive system partition- I am pretty sure it is what I used (step 11). I wonder if restoring the image:
> 
> _1.Download the MFSLive Linux Boot CD image and burn it as a CD. Boot your PC from the CD._
> 
> Will this affect any shows that may be stored on this drive?


1. Switched TV's and now I can see screen
2. I get the Welcome screen, the Almost Done screen, and then the blue screen reporting External hard drive failure. Tried the repair, but it just recycles with same 3 screens. Tried to remove the external hard drive (clear, 3 down-thumbs, enter)- but apparent unmarrying did not work because after a brief pause when the program attempted to unmarry, the same 3 screens appeared again- the program was not successful in unmarrying.
3. I decided to start from scratch and just follow Step 11. But then I noticed there there were some other options in MFS. There is amost Fix BootPage- option 1 or 2.
4. Would any of these, or other options under Tools, help me save shows- or should I just bite the bullet??


----------



## bobrt6676

Thought I would pass along a + outcome. Purchased a WD10EVCS 1TB drive from Amazon (108) and a USB -SATA adapter(19). DL'd WinMFS (Thanks so much for such an easy to use program) Opened the TivoHD and 30 mins. later I was back in business with 157 Hrs. of HD space.  SWEET :up:
For those sitting on the fence between spending $249 for a pre-programmed drive or doing it yourself. Just the follow the great directions on this forum and you can save yourself over $100.


----------



## bkdtv

I updated the first post to reflect that the 1TB My DVR Expander is now officially supported.



TiVoJerry said:


> Sorry for not being able to post now due to the prerelease glitch, but I can confirm that the support for the 1TB model was added to the servers.


----------



## bareyb

bobrt6676 said:


> Thought I would pass along a + outcome. Purchased a WD10EVCS 1TB drive from Amazon (108) and a USB -SATA adapter(19). DL'd WinMFS (Thanks so much for such an easy to use program) Opened the TivoHD and 30 mins. later I was back in business with 157 Hrs. of HD space.  SWEET :up:
> For those sitting on the fence between spending $249 for a pre-programmed drive or doing it yourself. Just the follow the great directions on this forum and you can save yourself over $100.


Awesome feeling isn't it?


----------



## Yuterald

bkdtv said:


> I updated the first post to reflect that the 1TB My DVR Expander is now officially supported.


no fair! i posted that in #2733 first!


----------



## jlb

richsadams said:


> On sale (as of this posting) Western Digital WD10EADS for $93.80 including shipping.
> 
> As noted in the first post of this sticky, this drive will NOT work as an internal hard drive upgrade in Series3's due to a soft reboot problem. Use the recommended WD10EVCS instead.
> 
> This drive is good for TiVo HD's though or it could also be used to build an eSATA drive for Series3's. Consult the first post for more info.


I received an e-mail from Newegg. With the promo code *EMCLRMR23*, this drive is $89.99 with free shipping. On Newegg's website, this drive is normally $99.99.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...L041409-_-InternalHardDrives-_-L0A-_-22136317

I do not know if that promo code is unique to the email sent to me or if it is a universal promo code.


----------



## richsadams

jlb said:


> I received an e-mail from Newegg. With the promo code *EMCLRMR23*, this drive is $89.99 with free shipping. On Newegg's website, this drive is normally $99.99.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...L041409-_-InternalHardDrives-_-L0A-_-22136317
> 
> I do not know if that promo code is unique to the email sent to me or if it is a universal promo code.


Nice...and I just tried the promo code and it works...so a few more bucks in the buyer's pocket! :up: Now don't get me reminiscing about paying $259 for one a couple years ago.


----------



## greg_burns

richsadams said:


> Nice...and I just tried the promo code and it works...so a few more bucks in the buyer's pocket! :up: Now don't get me reminiscing about paying $259 for one a couple years ago.


Dang! I just ordered a drive for a friend for her computer an hour ago from Newegg.


----------



## Strapped4Cash

I've read through most of this thread and have successfully upgraded my (2) S3's, (2) S2's and one S2DT, plus others using the instructions posted here.

Thanks.

I have been getting complaints from my wife that the S3 with a WD6400AAKS drive is too noisy. I was wondering whether anyone has tried using any SATA laptop drives which should run significantly quieter and lower power too. 

Any thoughts?


----------



## bkdtv

Strapped4Cash said:


> I've read through most of this thread and have successfully upgraded my (2) S3's, (2) S2's and one S2DT, plus others using the instructions posted here.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> I have been getting complaints from my wife that the S3 with a WD6400AAKS drive is too noisy. I was wondering whether anyone has tried using any SATA laptop drives which should run significantly quieter and lower power too.


If you get a WD10EVCS or WD10EVVS, I think your wife will be more than satisfied with the acoustics.

You can see a comparison of your WD640AAKS to the WD20EADS (with AAM) in this SPR review, which has virtually identical acoustics to the WD10EVCS and WD10EVVS when in AAM mode.


----------



## richsadams

Strapped4Cash said:


> I've read through most of this thread and have successfully upgraded my (2) S3's, (2) S2's and one S2DT, plus others using the instructions posted here.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> I have been getting complaints from my wife that the S3 with a WD6400AAKS drive is too noisy. I was wondering whether anyone has tried using any SATA laptop drives which should run significantly quieter and lower power too.
> 
> Any thoughts?


Welcome to the forum and congrats on all of your upgrades! Wow! I'll second what bkdtv said.

Also, did you try adjusting the automatic acoustic management (AAM) of the offending drive? It probably won't end up being as quiet as one of the recommended WD DVR/GP drives, but it should improve things a great deal. It's likely set at 256 for fast seek times which is good for a PC, but not needed with TiVo. You can adjust it down to 128 to make it less noisy if not acceptably quiet.

You can use the Hitachi Feature Tool to make the adjustment. You'll just need to pull the drive, connect it to your PC, run the program and pop it back in. It won't affect anything but the seek noise (which is what your bride is hearing).

Best of luck and let us know how things go!


----------



## wdai

Has anyone used HITACHI Deskstar 7K1000.B 0A38016 HDT721010SLA360 for the internal upgrade for Tivo HD? Looks like this drive can be had for $70 on newegg AR and Coupon.


----------



## Evilmonkee

I'm in the process of upgrading my TivoHD with the 1TB WDEVCS recommended drive.

My original tivo drive(160gb) was pretty much full (HD+SD shows). How long can I expect the WinMFS process to take? I started at around 11am PST and it is now about 1:30pm or about 2.5 hours in.

I am doing the retain all settings and shows MFScopy so I understand it can take some time, but MFS has appeared to be frozen with the progress bar at almost halfway with an ETA of 30min. It's been that way for almost a couple hours now but I'm still seeing the HDD activity light going.

The instructions said that it was a 35-45min process. Does that take into account having a full HDD to transfer? Both (old/new) drives are connected to my PC via SATA.

How long should I have to wait before "freaking out" and is it normal for the MFS screen to appear frozen for so long? Honestly, from the instructions, I didn't think it was going to take this long.

Thanks.


----------



## bkdtv

wdai said:


> Has anyone used HITACHI Deskstar 7K1000.B 0A38016 HDT721010SLA360 for the internal upgrade for Tivo HD? Looks like this drive can be had for $70 on newegg AR and Coupon.


The Deskstar 7K1000 will work fine. Just be aware that it won't be as quiet as some of the other drives mentioned in this thread. You can find noise "rankings" in the first post of this thread.

If you get that drive, you'll want to make be to use the Hitachi Feature Tools boot CD to enable AAM.


----------



## drhankz

Evilmonkee said:


> The instructions said that it was a 35-45min process. Does that take into account having a full HDD to transfer?
> 
> Thanks.


I believe that 45 min estimate is for an empty HD with JUST
the TiVo software on it.

Rich might chime in here - he knows all :up:


----------



## bkdtv

Evilmonkee said:


> My original tivo drive(160gb) was pretty much full (HD+SD shows). How long can I expect the WinMFS process to take? I started at around 11am PST and it is now about 1:30pm or about 2.5 hours in.


That definitely sounds like an unusual amount of time for a SATA connection. My backup took about 20 minutes.

Do you have security or antivirus software installed and running? Some antivirus software can significantly slow the upgrade process, because it processes the transfer to look for viruses.


----------



## Evilmonkee

Just went back and re-read the instructions and I do see where I missed that the 35-45min was just for software/settings transfer. Then it indicated that it could be an hour or more for transferring shows.

Assuming that I had a full ~160GBs to transfer, I wonder if I could calculate the time it should take. Anyone know what the data transfer rate between these two drives via SATA might be?


----------



## Evilmonkee

Thx for your reply bkdtv.

I do have Avira AV running in the background.

What would you recommend I do at this point? If I stop MFS and disable AV (and anything else running in the background I can) will it screw up the new drive at all? Will I be able to simply restart MFScopy without wiping the new drive?

I didn't need to format the new drive before using MFS, right? The instructions didn't mention anything like that.


----------



## bkdtv

Evilmonkee said:


> Thx for your reply bkdtv.
> 
> I do have Avira AV running in the background.


If the upgrade does not appear to make any progress in the next 30 minutes, I would cancel it and restart the process with your Avira AV disabled.

Prior to starting the process anew, you might also want to download and run Western Digital's Data LifeGuard utility to check the disk for errors. Some small percentage of drives are defective or damaged in shipping.



Evilmonkee said:


> If I stop MFS and disable AV (and anything else running in the background I can) will it screw up the new drive at all? Will I be able to simply restart MFScopy without wiping the new drive?


Yes, you can simply restart the upgrade process without any extra step. WinMFS will overwrite the contents.



Evilmonkee said:


> I didn't need to format the new drive before using MFS, right?


Correct. You don't need to do anything else, although you might consider running the diagnostic utility mentioned above, just to be certain the drive was not damaged in shipping.


----------



## Evilmonkee

Thanks for the advice.

My free time is quickly diminishing so I may just try starting over again. Sounds like it is taking unusually long. My PC is no slouch either so there should be no bottleneck.

I'll try the WD diag as well and hopefully get this working. Not as smooth as I was hoping the first time.

Hopefully I can come back with some good news soon.


----------



## greg_burns

Evilmonkee said:


> Assuming that I had a full ~160GBs to transfer, I wonder if I could calculate the time it should take. Anyone know what the data transfer rate between these two drives via SATA might be?


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6601995#post6601995
May not be apples to apples, but my "dd" copy (linux copy command) of my 250GB drive to a 800GB took 70min, 60MB/s via sata to sata interface.


----------



## richsadams

drhankz said:


> Rich might chime in here - he knows all :up:


OMG!  Are you kidding me? All he knows is enough to be dangerous.   Plus don't forget, you get what you pay for.


----------



## fred2

I thought I would bring my FAP750 failure thread up to date.

I opted for the quick "they ship me unit and then I ship back bad" for which I paid an expedite price but it wound up 1 week shipping rather than two days. Then, Seagate required an "in person" signature. I had to be home and sign - could not just sign the slip and leave it. Finally, the unit is a "rebuilt" unit and not a new one. I'd guess that they merely fixed someone else's exterior chassis/powersupply/whathaveyou and they will do the same with my (sniff) tivo recording ladened unit).

It will be a storage unit for anything but my Tivo..........


----------



## Strapped4Cash

richsadams said:


> Welcome to the forum and congrats on all of your upgrades! Wow! I'll second what bkdtv said.
> 
> Also, did you try adjusting the automatic acoustic management (AAM) of the offending drive? It probably won't end up being as quiet as one of the recommended WD DVR/GP drives, but it should improve things a great deal. It's likely set at 256 for fast seek times which is good for a PC, but not needed with TiVo. You can adjust it down to 128 to make it less noisy if not acceptably quiet.
> 
> You can use the Hitachi Feature Tool to make the adjustment. You'll just need to pull the drive, connect it to your PC, run the program and pop it back in. It won't affect anything but the seek noise (which is what your bride is hearing).
> 
> Best of luck and let us know how things go!


Rich-

Thanks for the tip, I plan to try the Hitachi tool this weekend. I think what she/we are hearing is spinning noise, not seek noise.

Any options to adjust the acoustics other than seek time?

Any thoughts on going the laptop (2.5") drive direction for even better noise reduction? Has anyone tried it or had success? I would spend more on a smaller drive to reduce the noise further.

David


----------



## richsadams

fred2 said:


> I thought I would bring my FAP750 failure thread up to date. It will be a storage unit for anything but my Tivo..........


Probably the best use for it. Tough lesson though. Thanks for the update! :up:


----------



## bkdtv

Strapped4Cash said:


> Any thoughts on going the laptop (2.5") drive direction for even better noise reduction? Has anyone tried it or had success? I would spend more on a smaller drive to reduce the noise further.


Laptop (2.5") drives are no longer the best drives for noise reduction. That title is held by the Western Digital "Green" drives -- the same drives recommended in the first post.

At SilentPCReview, you can compare these measurements for the 2TB Western Digital "Green" drive with these measurements for the latest notebook drives.

If you still have doubts about this, you can compare the specification sheets at the Western Digital and Seagate web sites.

Western Digital's Ranks by Seek Noise

 WD "Green" CE drives (25dB)
 WD Scorpio "Blue" notebook drives (26dB)
 _Skip a several entries_
 WD Scorpio "Black" notebook drives (28dB)
_Skip a several entries_
 WD Caviar "Blue" - WD6400AAKS (29dB)

Seagate's Ranks by Noise Profile (typical/max bels)

 Seagate Pipeline CE drives (1.9/2.0 for 500GB, 2.1/2.4 for 1TB)
 Seagate Momentus 7200.4 notebook drives (2.3/2.5)
 Seagate Momentus 5400.5 notebook drives (2.3/2.6)
 Seagate Momentus 5400.6 notebook drives (2.4/2.6)
 Seagate Momentus 5400.4 notebook drives (2.4/2.6)
In the SPR tests linked above, the Western Digital "Green" drive (25dB rated) bested both the 500GB and 1TB Seagate Pipeline CE drives (2.1/2.4 rated) in idle and seek noise.

Several years ago, notebook drives were the best choice for silent applications. But that is no longer the case, as should be obvious from the links above.


----------



## Evilmonkee

Well, I was never able to successfully make a complete MFScopy with all my recordings. After trying for the second time, it had frozen exactly like it had before. After a few hours I left, leaving it running in the hopes that it would complete, but several hours later when I returned, nothing had changed.

So I decided to screw trying to transfer the recordings. There wasn't anything there that I really needed or couldn't download. I just did the restore of the MFS backup and plopped it back into the Tivo. Booted right up and haven't had any problems so far.

At first I thought that maybe the original copy had worked because all the shows I had were still in the now playing list. But of course, there was no video associated with them so I just had to clear them out.

Still don't know why the copy wouldn't work.


----------



## richsadams

Evilmonkee said:


> Still don't know why the copy wouldn't work.


That is strange. winMFS author Spike might be able to figure it out over on his forum. The details might help someone following in your footsteps. But now that it's working...congratulations and enjoy! :up:


----------



## Nelson2009

Evilmonkee
I bet it would be better if you transfer all your shows to your computer (if you got some space). before you install new drive. I believe it would be less hassle just to copy Tivo system to new drive. You can always stream show back to your Tivo when you are ready to watch them. Hope this idea help. 

Nelson


----------



## Dssturbo1

Evilmonkee said:


> Well, I was never able to successfully make a complete MFScopy with all my recordings. After trying for the second time, it had frozen exactly like it had before. After a few hours I left, leaving it running in the hopes that it would complete, but several hours later when I returned, nothing had changed.
> 
> So I decided to screw trying to transfer the recordings. There wasn't anything there that I really needed or couldn't download. I just did the restore of the MFS backup and plopped it back into the Tivo. Booted right up and haven't had any problems so far.
> 
> At first I thought that maybe the original copy had worked because all the shows I had were still in the now playing list. But of course, there was no video associated with them so I just had to clear them out. Still don't know why the copy wouldn't work.


the MFSCopy transfer of my 250gb S3 drive with ~34 hours of HD programs to my new 1.5Tb Seagate drive took a little over 7 hours. But that was with slower sata to USB connnectors. I knew it might take awhile and at first it gave a normal time but after a while it had some crazy long number showing but it kept transferring and the little rectangular solid progress marks would move another notch to the right every so often and i just let it continue and
it finally finished but took over 7 hours.


----------



## nocturnal9

Just want to say that using the information in this thread, I successfully purchased a Fantom Greendrive at 1TB from Macmall, and successfully got it working externally to my Series 3 with minimal effort.
(Finally bought an HDTV, unchecked all my non-HD channels for networks I have HD for, and suddenly was quite low on room).
Thanks for all the help from all.


----------



## richsadams

nocturnal9 said:


> Just want to say that using the information in this thread, I successfully purchased a Fantom Greendrive at 1TB from Macmall, and successfully got it working externally to my Series 3 with minimal effort.


Congratulations! Welcome to the forum and welcome to the club! :up:


----------



## mchief

bkdtv said:


> Prior to starting the process anew, you might also want to download and run Western Digital's Data LifeGuard utility to check the disk for errors.
> 
> Just for info: Data Lifeguard will not run under Vista


----------



## bkdtv

mchief said:


> Just for info: Data Lifeguard will not run under Vista


Good to know. Those with Vista can use the bootable CD version.


----------



## cloudance

Ok... so I'm confused.....

I was gonna buy a TivoHD and upgrade the drive to a 1TB. It'd run me about $400, and I'd have essentially a Tivo HD XL. I'd save $200 but void my warranty, and I'm basically stuck at 1TB without a PROM upgrade. I could do the same thing with the 1TB expander, NOT void my warranty, and end up with a bit more storage space (for about $60 more)... and possibly take the external drive larger later when/if Tivo or WinMFS supports it. 

So why should I upgrade internally now?? What I'd really prefer to do is put in a 2TB drive internally, but to do that I'd have to get an HD-XL and void my warranty. That costs me $400 (at least) on top of the plain HD with an external 1tb drive to get just under twice the space. (not worth it to me right now). 

Thoughts?


----------



## richsadams

cloudance said:


> So why should I upgrade internally now??


That's not a bad question. For me an internal upgrade would mean one less fail point. The eSATA drive basically creates a larger hard drive; striping recordings across both drives. If it fails all of your recordings since the drive was connected are gone. Of course an internal drive can fail and you can end up with the same result. A single (new) drive reduces those odds to some extent.

On the other hand, if you upgrade your internal drive and put the original on the shelf you'll always have a perfect backup. If the new internal drive fails you can simply pop the original back in and be up and running or use it to image a new drive and be back in business almost immediately.

If it's the warranty you're worried about, although TiVo is aware of upgrades (log files), they rarely go that far to deny a warranty request (although IIRC there is at least one forum member that was denied a replacement due to an upgrade). So if something does go wrong you can always put the original drive back in and unless you mention the upgrade to TiVo you shouldn't have any problems getting a replacement.

Bottom line is that it's rare for TiVo failures to be caused by anything but hard drive failure so odds are you won't ever have to worry about the warranty.

The reason most of us have upgraded is to avoid losing recordings because there wasn't enough space. TiVo HD's 160GB drives are very small by anyone's standards. If you're recording HD programming you'll quickly want more space. An eSATA drive is one option, particularly since they are offering a 1TB model now.

We record almost everything in HD and have been very happy with 1TB. The few recordings I want to archive go onto my Mac for safe keeping. Others here are using their TiVo's to archive recordings and 2TB's would do that nicely of course. It really depends on what you want to do I guess.


----------



## bicker

For me, the main reason to upgrade is that I find the eSATA connection to be flaky. I get corrupted recordings regularly (five in the last two weeks) often unwatchable from beginning to end. 

Two questions though:

1) Is there any impact on CableCARD pairing from replacing the internal HD? Okay, looks like the answer is yes. Crap. I didn't realize that. My replacement drive is on its way to me already, so I'm not going to back out (and I've already decided long ago not to bother trying to do the copy my current drive thing).

2) What am I missing regarding the warranty concern? The warranty is only 90 days, right? What does it really mean that they won't provide technical support?


----------



## bkdtv

bicker said:


> 1) Is there any impact on CableCARD pairing from replacing the internal HD? Okay, looks like the answer is yes. Crap. I didn't realize that. My replacement drive is on its way to me already, so I'm not going to back out (and I've already decided long ago not to bother trying to do the copy my current drive thing).


Note this -- losing your CableCard pairing information -- only occurs if you purchase a pre-prepared drive upgrade. That's the primary reason to do the upgrade yourself, aside from the cost savings. Some third-party vendors also use Hitachi drives, which make a bit more noise than the Western Digital "Green" drives.



bicker said:


> 2) What am I missing regarding the warranty concern? The warranty is only 90 days, right? What does it really mean that they won't provide technical support?


The warranty is one-year on parts and 90-days on labor. This means that TiVo will replace the box after 90 days for a maximum charge of $50. Replacements are $150 after the one-year warranty expires.

If you buy a lifetime subscription, TiVo will always move that subscription over to a replacement of the same model, so long as you order it as a replacement from TiVo. Upgrading the drive does not change this.

I've only read one report [ever] of TiVo refusing to provide phone support to someone who upgraded their internal drive.


----------



## bicker

bkdtv said:


> Note this -- losing your CableCard pairing information -- only occurs if you purchase a pre-prepared drive upgrade.


Yes, that's indeed what I've done. I purchased a pre-prepared drive upgrade from the company that used to be this site's sponsor, not the one that is the sponsor now. 

So help me understand how best to proceed. I have Comcast, so it sounds like as soon as I replace the drive I'll basically lose service. What's the best approach? Try to arrange for reinstall before I replace the drive? Or replace the drive and then call in with a problem?



bkdtv said:


> The warantee is one-year on parts and 90-days on labor. This means that TiVo will replace the box after 90 days for a maximum charge of $50. Replacements are $150 after the one-year warranty expires.


My S3 is well over a year old. However, is what you're saying that if I replace the hard drive, the $150 offer to replace the S3 itself, should it fail, is forfeit?



bkdtv said:


> If you buy a lifetime subscription, TiVo will always move that subscription over to a replacement of the same model, so long as you order it as a replacement from TiVo. Upgrading the drive does not change this.


I don't have lifetime service on the S3.



bkdtv said:


> I've only read one report [ever] of TiVo refusing to provide phone support to someone who upgraded their internal drive.


Do you happen to recall what it was in regards to?


----------



## bkdtv

bicker said:


> So help me understand how best to proceed. I have Comcast, so it sounds like as soon as I replace the drive I'll basically lose service. What's the best approach? Try to arrange for reinstall before I replace the drive? Or replace the drive and then call in with a problem?


With Comcast, you can usually reactivate over the phone, if you have the patience to provide the necessary information.

Write down the serial number on each card and the information from the CableCard pairing screen for each card ...and then call Comcast and read them that information. You can tell them that you replaced your TiVo and need them to repair your CableCards.

Sometimes you will get a Comcast rep who doesn't know what they are doing and/or can't direct your call to someone that does. In that case, you might schedule a service call.



bicker said:


> My S3 is well over a year old. However, is what you're saying that if I replace the hard drive, the $150 offer to replace the S3 itself, should it fail, is forfeit?


No. I was really saying that you lose the ability to pay $0-$50 for a replacement within the first year. After the warranty period expires, refurbished replacements are always $150.



bicker said:


> Do you happen to recall what it was in regards to?


I do not.


----------



## richsadams

bicker said:


> Yes, that's indeed what I've done. I purchased a pre-prepared drive upgrade from the company that used to be this site's sponsor, not the one that is the sponsor now.
> 
> So help me understand how best to proceed. I have Comcast, so it sounds like as soon as I replace the drive I'll basically lose service. What's the best approach? Try to arrange for reinstall before I replace the drive? Or replace the drive and then call in with a problem?
> 
> My S3 is well over a year old. However, is what you're saying that if I replace the hard drive, the $150 offer to replace the S3 itself, should it fail, is forfeit?
> 
> I don't have lifetime service on the S3.
> 
> Do you happen to recall what it was in regards to?


I'll jump in with my two-cents...bkdtv will add his wisdom if needed as well. Ahhh...I see he already has! 

With regard to cable cards, give your provider a call and ask them if they will re-pair or "re-hit" your cards with a phone call from you (most will - Comcast will in our area). If that's the case you can simply install your new drive, run Guided Setup, call the cable company and ask them to re-pair your cable cards, re-run Guided Setup once more and everything should be fine. If they won't re-pair your cards with a telephone request from you, you'll need to schedule a truck roll ($14.95 for Comcast in our area), install the drive, run Guided Setup before they get there and then let them do an install (no different than when you first bought and installed your TiVo).

If you need to exchange your TiVo all you need to do is put the original drive back in and send it to TiVo.

The OP didn't elaborate on the one incident that bkdtv and I know of when TiVo refused service on his upgraded box. He might chime in if he reads this.

You can take comfort in knowing that what you're planning on doing is very common, easy to do and a good choice. Once you've installed the new drive and gotten your cable cards sorted out you'll basically have a new TiVo. :up:


----------



## bicker

Okay, my plan is that if the CSR doesn't understand the idea of me reading the pairing information to the tech, then I can call back and try a different CSR. 

Seriously, does anyone know the right words to use with Comcast, with respect (specifically) to the title of the tech who I need to be put in contact with in order to do the repairing. I seem to remember something with the word "advanced" in it, but other than that, I'm coming up blank. 

So, I figure I'll say, "Hello, the CableCARDs you installed for me last year have become unpaired, and I need to re-pair them. Could you please connect me with the XXXXX tech so that we can fix this?" Sound good?


----------



## TiVo_Fanatic

They say the more sites you post o nthe mroe likely your to get the answer your aftr ;-)

Anyway, the following is a copy of a post of mine I made over at the winmfs site.

-------

My S2 DT is software version 9.?? and my S3 (OLED one if it matters) is 11.??, well with that said one begs the question of what's the maximum size HDD that I can use to upgrade both units ? I ask because I've been reading around both here (the winmfs site) and the internet and theres alot of technical stuff goin about that I dont quite get like how even if you use a large HDD to upgrade you'll only be able to use so much of it. So ya, I'm under the general concensus that it's safe to upgrade both my S2 & S3 units with 1 TB drive and be able to use all of that space but what can I use thats larger than 1 TB if anything in both units and be able to use all space available ?

Also, if someone could tlak to me like I'm a 5yr old and explain what the deal is with disk size limitation on certain units with certain software versions I'd be much appreciated ;-)


----------



## richsadams

bicker said:


> So, I figure I'll say, "Hello, the CableCARDs you installed for me last year have become unpaired, and I need to re-pair them. Could you please connect me with the XXXXX tech so that we can fix this?" Sound good?


I wouldn't worry about titles...that should work. You may get shuffled about a bit, but eventually you'll get connected to someone that will be able to take care of things.

Keep us posted!


----------



## richsadams

TiVo_Fanatic said:


> They say the more sites you post o nthe mroe likely your to get the answer your aftr ;-)
> 
> Anyway, the following is a copy of a post of mine I made over at the winmfs site.
> 
> -------
> 
> My S2 DT is software version 9.?? and my S3 (OLED one if it matters) is 11.??, well with that said one begs the question of what's the maximum size HDD that I can use to upgrade both units ? I ask because I've been reading around both here (the winmfs site) and the internet and theres alot of technical stuff goin about that I dont quite get like how even if you use a large HDD to upgrade you'll only be able to use so much of it. So ya, I'm under the general concensus that it's safe to upgrade both my S2 & S3 units with 1 TB drive and be able to use all of that space but what can I use thats larger than 1 TB if anything in both units and be able to use all space available ?
> 
> Also, if someone could tlak to me like I'm a 5yr old and explain what the deal is with disk size limitation on certain units with certain software versions I'd be much appreciated ;-)


With regard to your Series3, have a read of the first post on this sticky thread and you'll know all you need to know about upgrades.

With respect to max HDD size, for the S3 it's 2.2TB which would include a 1TB internal and 1TB+ external. It's been so long since I upgraded a Series2 I cannot remember the max on those.  Maybe someone here remembers, or if you posted on the regular upgrade thread someone there will know for sure.

BTW, spell check is your friend.  They also say that people that transpose are borderline brilliant. I couldn't agree mroe!

Happy upgrading!


----------



## greg_burns

Hi Andy,

If you don't want to use an external at all then this part of the faq is helpful...



bkdtv said:


> [*] *What is the largest drive I can buy?*
> 
> _Credit to spike -- the author of WinMFS -- for clarifying this subject._
> 
> With latest version of WinMFS, the maximum capacity allowed for the internal TiVo drive is 1.1 TB (1.0 TiB) *plus* the capacity of the original drive. Older tools cannot support drives larger than 1.1 TB.
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> [u]Model Number[/u]    [u]Maximum Usable Drive Size*[/u]
> Tivo HD       TCD652160       1.26 TB (1260 GB)
> Tivo HD XL    TCD658000       2.10 TB (2100 GB)
> TiVo Series3  TCD648250B      1.35 TB (1350 GB)
> 
> [size=1]* Drives with capacities larger than 1.1 TB are only supported when the latest version
> of WinMFS is used.  If you are using tools or a method other than those described below,
> then your drive must be 1.1 TB or smaller.[/size]
> 
> If you were to replace the built-in TiVo drive with a 2.0 TB drive, the full 2.0 TB would be usable on a TivoHD XL, but only 1.26 TB would be usable on the TivoHD.


And accordingly only 1.35TB would be usable on the TiVo Series3 using a 2.0 TB internal drive.



richsadams said:


> With respect to max HDD size, for the S3 it's 2.2TB which would include a 1TB internal and 1TB+ external.


So, if he then marries an external 1TB to an internal 2TB what happens? Same rules apply and still only end up with the max allowed 2.2TB total, right?


----------



## bkdtv

greg_burns said:


> So, if he then marries an external 1TB to an internal 2TB what happens? Same rules apply and still only end up with the max allowed 2.2TB total, right?


Right. Any attempt to marry more than 2.2TB [without a hacked PROM] will result in a non-functional TiVo. The TiVo would constantly reboot.


----------



## TiVo_Fanatic

Hey Greg, thx for the reply.

Well, if I ever did need anything over 1.35TB I think I'd need to shoot myself lol, thats just to many SD movies to save lol. But ya that pretty much answers my question about my S3. So I guess I'll buy a 1.5 and set it up so I can use the max 1.35 on an internal.

Now I just need to find out the max size for my S2 ;-)

Edit: What does MFS have to do with the max size allowed, I thought that was governed by the TiVo software or something.


----------



## MikeAndrews

richsadams said:


> ...We record almost everything in HD and have been very happy with 1TB. The few recordings I want to archive go onto my Mac for safe keeping. Others here are using their TiVo's to archive recordings and 2TB's would do that nicely of course. It really depends on what you want to do I guess.


You didn't mention the SNAFU of the Copy flag. I'd be happy to take everything I wanted to archive off to my PC/Mac/NAS, on which I can ever expand disk space as needed.

With all premium content flagged I see literally a hundred programs I can't copy on from my S3, which has 1.25TB as stands.


----------



## greg_burns

TiVo_Fanatic said:


> Now I just need to find out the max size for my S2 ;-)


Remember that an S2 uses an IDE drive. So without an adapter to Sata you'll be limited to the largest IDE drive you can buy.



TiVo_Fanatic said:


> Edit: What does MFS have to do with the max size allowed, I thought that was governed by the TiVo software or something.


Don't really know myself, but WinMFS must have special code it in to take into account the larger partition sizes that the older tools don't.


----------



## richsadams

netringer said:


> You didn't mention the SNAFU of the Copy flag.


That's a good point. Our HBO and Showtime content are copy protected so that does cut down on the things we can transfer to the computer. For the most part we don't keep a lot of programs though. We're not big on watching something more than once and the things we do want to keep we usually end up buying the DVD. I've no idea if we're "typical" or not but so far 1TB has been adequate for us.


----------



## Yuterald

richsadams said:


> That's a good point. Our HBO and Showtime content are copy protected so that does cut down on the things we can transfer to the computer. For the most part we don't keep a lot of programs though. We're not big on watching something more than once and the things we do want to keep we usually end up buying the DVD. I've no idea if we're "typical" or not but so far 1TB has been adequate for us.


I transfer stuff from HBO, Showtime, etc all the time from my TiVo to my PC (and back). The only items that are 'protected' are the podcasts downloaded.


----------



## richsadams

Yuterald said:


> I transfer stuff from HBO, Showtime, etc all the time from my TiVo to my PC (and back). The only items that are 'protected' are the podcasts downloaded.


I guess it all depends on the provider and location. We're switching to FIOS on Monday and IIRC they don't have copy protection. Hope that's the case!


----------



## Yuterald

I have Comcrap...I mean Comcast.


----------



## richsadams

Yuterald said:


> I have Comcrap...I mean Comcast.


That's what we have right now. I'm looking forward to more and uncompressed HD!

BTW, here's a related blog about copy protection.


----------



## ciper

bicker said:


> Okay, my plan is that if the CSR doesn't understand the idea of me reading the pairing information to the tech, then I can call back and try a different CSR.
> 
> Seriously, does anyone know the right words to use with Comcast, with respect (specifically) to the title of the tech who I need to be put in contact with in order to do the repairing.


Don't say the word "hit" because that is when they resend the channel map. Try not to say re pair because they will think you are saying they need to be repaired physically LOL

The idea of calling back until you get the answer you want is dead on. If the person tries to schedule a truck roll just find a way to get off the phone and call back.

There was an article recently that showed Comcast as the leader in Cable Card self installation. Approximately 1/3 of the installs were done by the end user!

If it was me I'd make up a BS story about the cable cards working and then you unplugged the unit and when you plugged it back in all your channels were blank and it brought up a screen showing some type of ID numbers and that you should call the cable company,,, I _think_ its the conditional access screen?


----------



## Yuterald

You need to speak to someone who can send a signal from the 'header' and understand what that means. Last time Comcast was at my house they were going to send some techs back to learn from ME just how to get cards working. It's useless for someone to come out - it's all done at their main station.


----------



## bicker

The sad bit is I actually had the direct-dial number of one of the guys who does it in our area. (I dialed the number for the tech who installed my CableCARDs -- his hands were busy). But we've since moved our whole house around and I have no idea where it is anymore.


----------



## mchief

Installing ITB WD10. Complete MFS copy and when asked to expand drive 'yes' and Vista crashed mfs with the following 'gui tools to backup restore expand fix tivo hard drive has stopped working'

Restart mfs and tried tools>supersize>on and same error message. Not sure what happened. Guess I install 1TB drive and see what I have.


----------



## ThAbtO

It may say 'it has stopped working' or 'not responding', but its possible that the computer is using all of the CPU process to do the job and unable to update the application. If you can avoid closing the application and wait, check drive lights flickering or hard drive activity sounds, do not close. Close only if there are no lights/drive activity noises/ or when its quiet for a long while.


----------



## bkdtv

mchief said:


> Installing ITB WD10. Complete MFS copy and when asked to expand drive 'yes' and Vista crashed mfs with the following 'gui tools to backup restore expand fix tivo hard drive has stopped working'
> 
> Restart mfs and tried tools>supersize>on and same error message. Not sure what happened. Guess I install 1TB drive and see what I have.


Did you follow the instructions and disable your security / antivirus software prior to performing the backup? That can slow the Mfscopy from 30-40 minutes to 3-4 hours.


----------



## mchief

Time was not an issue (about 18 min). I started from scratch when TivoHD would not boot with new drive. This time everything worked as advertised. Except even though supersize said it was on, I only have 142 hours HD. More than enough, but I'm one of those crazed folks that must know why. So, I will pull the drive and supersize it again.


----------



## bkdtv

mchief said:


> Time was not an issue (about 18 min). I started from scratch when TivoHD would not boot with new drive. This time everything worked as advertised. Except even though supersize said it was on, I only have 142 hours HD. More than enough, but I'm one of those crazed folks that must know why. So, I will pull the drive and supersize it again.


After a Mfscopy, you can't just select Tools -> MfsSupersize to Supersize. There is an extra step -- you have to reselect the new drive -- as noted in the instructions.

This is a fairly common mistake.


----------



## bicker

So I have the replacement hard drive and I think I'm going to hold off installing it until Summer, because I'm concerned about losing cable for a few days in case I cannot get Comcast to re-pair the CableCARDs correctly over the telephone. I figure even with using TTG/TTCB, worst case would have us losing recordings just made (not enough time to TTG them [because they were "just" made]) as well recordings planned for the night I do the replacement and the night after that (and of course perhaps longer).

What would mitigate this is if I can understand that if I have a problem with Comcast, I can just as readily reinstall the original primary drive and connect the eSATA drive, and be back to where I was before I did the replacement, i.e., with the CableCARDs paired properly. Is that a reasonable assumption? How much risk is there from swapping drives back and forth like that?

My main inspiration for doing this replacement was lost recordings (the "partial" recording problem) allegedly due to the eSATA drive. However, since reseating the eSATA connection over the weekend, we haven't lost a recording yet. So I think dusting was the culprit in the problems we've had over the last month. As such, with the danger of losing recordings gone, the push to do the replacement is pretty small, now.

Of course, if we lose another recording tonight, we'll be doing the replacement tomorrow.


----------



## mchief

bkdtv said:


> After a Mfscopy, you can't just select Tools -> MfsSupersize to Supersize. There is an extra step -- you have to reselect the new drive -- as noted in the instructions.
> 
> This is a fairly common mistake.


I suspect that is exactly what I did. Thanks. When all else fails - read the instructions.

I will pull the drive and try again.


----------



## richsadams

bicker said:


> What would mitigate this is if I can understand that if I have a problem with Comcast, I can just as readily reinstall the original primary drive and connect the eSATA drive, and be back to where I was before I did the replacement, i.e., with the CableCARDs paired properly. Is that a reasonable assumption? How much risk is there from swapping drives back and forth like that?


That's what I'd do. Just power down TiVo, power down and disconnect the eSATA drive, set them both on the shelf, pop the new drive in and fire TiVo up. Run Guided Setup and then call the cable company and have them pair the cable cards. Run Guided Setup again and you should be in business.

If they can't or won't pair cable cards over the phone you can simply put the old drive back in, connect your eSATA drive fire it up, fire TiVo up and things will be back to square one.


----------



## microbubba

1TB WD10EVCS is sitting on my desk. $106 at Amazon.

The plan is to eliminate the "Officially Supported"  eSATA My DVR Expander subsystem, processor, I/O, cable, etc as the cause for pixellation, partials, and general HD content disarray.

Had enough.

The wife is a lurker. Honey, please watch or transfer your stuff. OK? Thanks.:up:

_"The only constant left in the universe is upgrades."_


----------



## mchief

mchief said:


> I suspect that is exactly what I did. Thanks. When all else fails - read the instructions.
> 
> I will pull the drive and try again.


Now at 157 just as advertised. Thanks all - actually a simple process if you read the damn directions. That's what happens to software development weenies, we forget how to read.


----------



## richsadams

mchief said:


> That's what happens to software development weenies, we forget how to read.


Read? Read what? What are you talking about? Kidding. 

Congratulations and welcome to the club! :up:


----------



## hummingbird_206

Moving into my new house this weekend, woo hoo! So how do I move my S3 and My DVR Expander so as not to lose the recordings? Is there a certain power off sequence and then power on sequence or am I just SOL?


----------



## greg_burns

hummingbird_206 said:


> Moving into my new house this weekend, woo hoo! So how do I move my S3 and My DVR Expander so as not to lose the recordings? Is there a certain power off sequence and then power on sequence or am I just SOL?


I would go into the menu and tell it to restart. Right after the screen goes dark, pull the power on the Tivo. Then you can safely unplug the expander and disconnect.

Don't plug your Tivo in again without first reconnecting or you will get a message asking if you want to divorce the expander.


----------



## richsadams

hummingbird_206 said:


> Moving into my new house this weekend, woo hoo! So how do I move my S3 and My DVR Expander so as not to lose the recordings? Is there a certain power off sequence and then power on sequence or am I just SOL?


Easy to do. The "offical" TiVo guidelines are here.

Basically:

- Unplug TiVo
- Unplug your eSATA drive and disconnect from TiVo
- Move
- Plug your eSATA drive in and reconnect it to TiVo
- Plug TiVo in

That's it.


----------



## hummingbird_206

Thanks for the instructions. I knew this was the place to get help!


----------



## richsadams

New listing on Amazon still shows it's not available and there's nothing on TiVo's web site  about it yet, but the Amazon price has already dropped to $167.70 w/free shipping on the new 1TB WD eSATA Drive. That's really not a bad deal for a turn-key/plug and pray option for folks looking for a fast way to increase their recording space on Series3, TiVo HD or HDXL boxes.


----------



## noads123

I followed the TiVo rules and got an approved WD 500 GB eSata last year. New rules: 1 TB. So how do I keep my movies and upgrade? Is there a daisy chain eSata cable and a TiVo on-screen process programmed yet (hint). . .


----------



## richsadams

noads123 said:


> I followed the TiVo rules and got an approved WD 500 GB eSata last year. New rules: 1 TB. So how do I keep my movies and upgrade? Is there a daisy chain eSata cable and a TiVo on-screen process programmed yet (hint). . .


Per this thread at the moment you're SOL. Unfortunate but it is what it is.

If the recordings you want to keep aren't copy protected you can transfer them to your computer w/TiVo Desktop and then back again, but that's about it.


----------



## hummingbird_206

greg_burns said:


> I would go into the menu and tell it to restart. Right after the screen goes dark, pull the power on the Tivo. Then you can safely unplug the expander and disconnect.
> 
> Don't plug your Tivo in again without first reconnecting or you will get a message asking if you want to divorce the expander.





richsadams said:


> Easy to do. The "offical" TiVo guidelines are here.
> 
> Basically:
> 
> - Unplug TiVo
> - Unplug your eSATA drive and disconnect from TiVo
> - Move
> - Plug your eSATA drive in and reconnect it to TiVo
> - Plug TiVo in
> 
> That's it.


I'm back up and running and all recordings still there, yippee! I have 6 eps of 24 and all season for Dollhouse that I haven't had time to view yet, so really glad those didn't disappear!

Thanks again for the help.


----------



## richsadams

hummingbird_206 said:


> I'm back up and running and all recordings still there, yippee! I have 6 eps of 24 and all season for Dollhouse that I haven't had time to view yet, so really glad those didn't disappear!
> 
> Thanks again for the help.


Excellent news! Enjoy your new digs!


----------



## phantomsax

So I just bought a Tivo HD last week and bought an Antec MX-1 and WD WD10EVCS to add 1TB of external storage. As a preface, I am a network admin by trade, so drives, cloning, etc. is nothing new to me. 

What doesn't make sense to me is why I need to open the case, and clone the internal drive to the external drive to make it all work. If there is partitioning or other data that needs to be on the external drive, couldn't I just get an image online and apply it to the external drive from my computer instead of getting it from the internal drive? 

I apologize if the answer is in an earlier post, but I tried searching but I didn't have the time to read all 2,815 posts in this thread.


----------



## greg_burns

phantomsax said:


> So I just bought a Tivo HD last week and bought an Antec MX-1 and WD WD10EVCS to add 1TB of external storage. As a preface, I am a network admin by trade, so drives, cloning, etc. is nothing new to me.
> 
> What doesn't make sense to me is why I need to open the case, and clone the internal drive to the external drive to make it all work. If there is partitioning or other data that needs to be on the external drive, couldn't I just get an image online and apply it to the external drive from my computer instead of getting it from the internal drive?


Great question. First though, if you are going to open your TivoHD just make the internal drive the 1TB one and shelf the original 160GB as a backup. That's my .02 on it.

As far as the original question. I have no idea. Perhaps it is writing something to the internal drive identifying the external by its model #? Not sure.


----------



## Dssturbo1

phantomsax said:


> So I just bought a Tivo HD last week and bought an Antec MX-1 and WD WD10EVCS to add 1TB of external storage. As a preface, I am a network admin by trade, so drives, cloning, etc. is nothing new to me.
> 
> What doesn't make sense to me is why I need to open the case, and clone the internal drive to the external drive to make it all work. If there is partitioning or other data that needs to be on the external drive, couldn't I just get an image online and apply it to the external drive from my computer instead of getting it from the internal drive?
> 
> I apologize if the answer is in an earlier post, but I tried searching but I didn't have the time to read all 2,815 posts in this thread.


i agree with greg burns suggestion to just use the 1tb as the internal and keep the 160gb original as a backup.

with the Tivo HD or HD XL the issue is that they will only accept the 500Gb or new just released 1Tb My DVR expanders as Tivo officially supported plug and play external drives.

So when you want to use any other external drive you are not cloning the drives, you need to "marry" them so they are allowed to work together.


----------



## phantomsax

I am coming to agree with you guys as well and just use the MX-1 for something else and drop the 1TB drive internally. I am sure I can find another use for the MX-1. I was just hoping to find *some* way to make the eSATA drive work without having to open the Tivo up and use WinMFS.

I just hate to potentially nuke the warranty on something I haven't even had a full week yet. At least I can dust off my torx screwdrivers since I don't use them all that often.


----------



## Dssturbo1

it's allowed on the S3 but Tivo got a little more proprietary with the HD and HD XL models.


----------



## rmackay

Quick question. From what I have read, if you add an eSata hard drive and then remove it, all or most of your current recordings can be lost.

Consider this scenario. 

1. Unmod'd Series 3 has about 30 HD shows recorded, nearly capacity. 
2. An external eSata drive is successfully added.
3. 3 or 4 new shows recorded.
4. External eSata drive removed.

Would I lose the 30 original HD shows that were on the internal drive or would they still be there?


----------



## bkdtv

rmackay said:


> Would I lose the 30 original HD shows that were on the internal drive or would they still be there?


You only lose the recordings made since the drive was added. You do not lose any of your original recordings.

Be sure to see the FAQ in the first post, if you haven't already.


----------



## rmackay

Thanks for the info. The reason that I asked was that after adding the eSata drive, things were working normally for about an hour and then the tivo would reboot itself for no apparent reason. Cables were all secure, etc.

I am running the kickstart57 routine now to see if that helps. If not, I'll have to abandon the eSata external drive idea for now.

-- kickstart57 -- Should that actually report any info or just reboot and continue? How do I know if it actually worked or helped?

Apparently neither ks57 or ks58 made a difference as the tivo continued to intermittently reboot itself until I removed the external drive. I guess I'll have to go with the only "supported" option.


----------



## HDRyder9

Perhaps this issue has already been addressed but I cant find it. So, Ill ask anyway. I have an early Tivo HD which was upgraded to a 500GB internal hard drive. Its working perfectly. Id like to upgrade the internal hard drive again to 1TB this time. Can I back up from the 500GB drive and restore to the 1TB drive with WinMFS? Id prefer not to loose any recordings and my season passes. I can back up from the original 160GB drive if I have to since I saved it.


----------



## HazelW

My system is starting to freeze and reboot. So its probably time to upgrade. I have a TiVo HD original drive and a DVR Expander. If I read the FAQ correctly I should do the following to preserve my settings, season passes, but not my recordings.

Buy a WD10EVCS or EVVS. Divorce my DVR Expander by disconnecting it and telling the TiVo I no longer want to use it. Use the internal drive to upgrade to the new drive.

Is there any way to save my recorded programs? I think the FAQ says "no" if using an original drive.

Is there any chance the corruption on my system (if there is any) will affect the transfer? I also have instant cake so I could use that but I would lose the season passes and perhaps the cable card pairing.

And will the DVR expander work with the new upgraded drive? (I think the answer is no and I probably won't use it anyway.)

Thanks in advance for any help.


----------



## phantomsax

Just an update (not that anyone really cares) but I decided to use the 1GB drive I originally was going to use as an eSATA drive as the internal drive on my week old Tivo HD. I must admit, it was hard cracking the case and potentially voiding the warranty on something that is less than a week old, but the instructions in this thread were spot on, and major thanks to whoever wrote WinMFS. As simple as the program and UI may be, it did exactly what I needed it to do, it was easy, and it did it right the first time. I can't help reading the info screen and grinning when I see 157 hours of HD.


----------



## richsadams

phantomsax said:


> Just an update (not that anyone really cares) but I decided to use the 1GB drive I originally was going to use as an eSATA drive as the internal drive on my week old Tivo HD. I must admit, it was hard cracking the case and potentially voiding the warranty on something that is less than a week old, but the instructions in this thread were spot on, and major thanks to whoever wrote WinMFS. As simple as the program and UI may be, it did exactly what I needed it to do, it was easy, and it did it right the first time. I can't help reading the info screen and grinning when I see 157 hours of HD.


Hey...we all care!  Congrats and welcome to the club.

BTW, if something should go wrong you should be able to slip the OEM HDD back in TiVo and exchange it. Although TiVo can tell by their logs that you've upgraded the drive, IIRC only one member has said that they refused to replace his sighting that as an issue. Of course you would be wise not to mention that you've been busy making things better (at least from your perspective). Bottom line is that the number one fail point in TiVo's is the hard drive so you'll probably be able to keep it running for many, many years to come.

Enjoy! :up:


----------



## richsadams

HazelW said:


> My system is starting to freeze and reboot. So its probably time to upgrade. I have a TiVo HD original drive and a DVR Expander. If I read the FAQ correctly I should do the following to preserve my settings, season passes, but not my recordings.
> 
> Buy a WD10EVCS or EVVS. Divorce my DVR Expander by disconnecting it and telling the TiVo I no longer want to use it. Use the internal drive to upgrade to the new drive.
> 
> Is there any way to save my recorded programs? I think the FAQ says "no" if using an original drive.
> 
> Is there any chance the corruption on my system (if there is any) will affect the transfer? I also have instant cake so I could use that but I would lose the season passes and perhaps the cable card pairing.
> 
> And will the DVR expander work with the new upgraded drive? (I think the answer is no and I probably won't use it anyway.)
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help.


Sorry to hear things aren't going well. The good news is that it's probably something you can fix by replacing the hard drive. To answer your questions...

Yes, if you use winMFS and follow the instructions you can use your existing hard drive to image a new drive. It will preserve your SP's, cable cards, etc. but since you have an eSATA drive, none of the recordings made since the expansion drive was attached. One option is to transfer your (non copy-protected) recordings to your computer via TiVo Desktop and then back to the new drive later.

Odds are that the OS partitions are good and imaging a new drive will be fine. However if a problem continues to exist you can use Instant Cake to image the new drive. You are correct, if you use IC your SP's, etc. would be lost and you would need your cable company to re-pair your cable cards.

You can continue to use your eSATA drive (providing that it's working okay) by following the steps to marry it to your new drive while using winMFS. It's only a few additional clicks.

All of that said, do you know which drive is causing the problem(s)? It may be something as simple as a loose or failing eSATA drive cable. If that's not it you might try running a couple of TiVo's diagnostic programs called Kickstarts to see if they can repair (KS57 or KS58) any hard drive issues or at least tell you which drive is problematic (KS54). Once you transfer your recordings or are okay with losing them, you could simply divorce your eSATA drive to see if TiVo operates normally. (Power TiVo down, disconnect the eSATA drive, power TiVo up and follow the screen instructions). If it runs okay, then you'd just need to replace the eSATA drive. If not, then you know the internal drive needs replacing.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.


----------



## richsadams

HDRyder9 said:


> Perhaps this issue has already been addressed but I can't find it. So, I'll ask anyway. I have an early Tivo HD which was upgraded to a 500GB internal hard drive. It's working perfectly. I'd like to upgrade the internal hard drive again to 1TB this time. Can I back up from the 500GB drive and restore to the 1TB drive with WinMFS? I'd prefer not to loose any recordings and my season passes. I can back up from the original 160GB drive if I have to since I saved it.


You should be able to use your 500GB drive to image a new 1TB drive following the steps in the first post. Not sure if you want to save your recordings but that should work as well. If all else fails you could certainly use your original drive to image a new one.

I replaced the original/upgraded 1TB drive I had in our Series3 with a new 1TB and used the upgraded drive to image the new one and it worked fine. Not exactly the same thing but AFAIK, using your upgraded drive shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## HazelW

Rich,

Thanks for your help and suggestions. I will try the kickstarts. It has only happened twice over 3 days that I know of, so maybe I nick it in the bud. 

Do I need to divorce the drives before upgrading or can I just take out the internal drive as is and use it to upgrade?


----------



## microbubba

HazelW said:


> My system is starting to freeze and reboot. So its probably time to upgrade. I have a TiVo HD original drive and a DVR Expander. If I read the FAQ correctly I should do the following to preserve my settings, season passes, but not my recordings.
> 
> Buy a WD10EVCS or EVVS. Divorce my DVR Expander by disconnecting it and telling the TiVo I no longer want to use it. Use the internal drive to upgrade to the new drive.
> 
> Is there any way to save my recorded programs? I think the FAQ says "no" if using an original drive.
> 
> Is there any chance the corruption on my system (if there is any) will affect the transfer? I also have instant cake so I could use that but I would lose the season passes and perhaps the cable card pairing.
> 
> And will the DVR expander work with the new upgraded drive? (I think the answer is no and I probably won't use it anyway.)
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help.


Same boat. S3 + DVR Expander. We divorced the Expander last weekend to prep for the WD10EVCS transplant. Things happened and I couldn't find the time, so we've been running stock for a week now, with no problems on the HD, pixellation, GSOD, stutter, etc. I haven't tested the Expander drive but wouldn't be surprised if it passed everything, just barely 1+ yr old.

Looks like a rainy weekend will prevent outdoor activity so the surgery is back on the schedule.


----------



## greg_burns

HazelW said:


> Do I need to divorce the drives before upgrading or can I just take out the internal drive as is and use it to upgrade?


Unfortunately, you cannot upgrade your internal with an external still married. Have to divorce it first. 



bkdtv said:


> [*] *I have an external drive connected. Can I still upgrade the built-in hard drive?*
> 
> You cannot upgrade the built-in hard drive while it is "married" to an external drive. You must "unmarry" the external drive before you can proceed with a drive upgrade. To do that, power on the TiVo without the external drive connected and follow the on-screen instructions.
> 
> Be aware that "unmarrying" the external drive will cause you to lose all recordings made since it was added. Before you disconnect your external hard drive and lose those recordings, you may want to download those (without copy protection) to your computer using TiVo Desktop or iTiVo. Once the drive upgrade is complete, you can send those recordings back to the TiVo.


----------



## lrhorer

phantomsax said:


> Just an update (not that anyone really cares) but I decided to use the 1GB drive I originally was going to use as an eSATA drive as the internal drive on my week old Tivo HD.


Um, I think you mean TB, not GB. I haven't seen a drive smaller than 30GB in ages.


----------



## bicker

greg_burns said:


> Unfortunately, you cannot upgrade your internal with an external still married. Have to divorce it first.


I assume that you mean only in the case where you're making your own, internal drive. If you bought a preformatted internal drive, I assume that you don't need to unmarry your existing drives, and that indeed, you can swap back to the married internal-and-eSATA combo if you need to.


----------



## greg_burns

bicker said:


> I assume that you mean only in the case where you're making your own, internal drive. If you bought a preformatted internal drive, I assume that you don't need to unmarry your existing drives, and that indeed, you can swap back to the married internal-and-eSATA combo if you need to.


No I don't think that's right. Say you have the original drive and an external. You then purchase a preformatted larger internal drive from DVRUpgrade, Weeknees, etc. As soon as you boot with the external attached it will not recognize the external at all. If it is an Original S3 it will ask you if you want to use it (thus loosing all recordings on it). If it is a TivoHD you will have to use WinMFS to marry the new preformatted drive to your external (Even if it is the approved WD DVR Expander*). This will also loose all recordings on it.

*Can someone confirm that?


----------



## bicker

Uh... okay, but that's not what I was saying...

Drive A = original TiVo internal
Drive B = TiVo eSATA
Drive C = replacement TiVo internal from Weaknees, DVR Upgrade, etc.

So you start with Drive A + Drive B married.

You don't have to do anything other than shut down, disconnect Drive B, replace Drive A with Drive C, and reboot. (Notice... Drive B is not connected.)

Then, later, you theoretically can shut down, disconnect Drive C, replace Drive C with Drive A, reconnect Drive B, and reboot.

Right?


----------



## greg_burns

bicker said:


> Uh... okay, but that's not what I was saying...
> 
> Drive A = original TiVo internal
> Drive B = TiVo eSATA
> Drive C = replacement TiVo internal from Weaknees, DVR Upgrade, etc.
> 
> So you start with Drive A + Drive B married.
> 
> You don't have to do anything other than shut down, disconnect Drive B, replace Drive A with Drive C, and reboot. (Notice... Drive B is not connected.)
> 
> Then, later, you theoretically can shut down, disconnect Drive C, replace Drive C with Drive A, reconnect Drive B, and reboot.
> 
> Right?


Yeah, that will be ok.

So you are going to shelve both your original and your external in favor on just a single large internal. Gotcha!


----------



## bicker

It's really just paranoia. I'm worried that Comcast won't re-pair without a truck roll. So if that is the case, I'll have to "roll back" to my old combo. 

I'm upgrading solely because of the flakiness with the eSATA. We lost 2-5 recordings per week -- they're basically "(partial)" and for a good portion if not the entire recording, there is loads of blockiness -- it basically looks like the playback is skipping, but it is identical after rewind, so the problem is during recording. And it has been happening ever since I added the eSATA, goes away when I take the eSATA away, and TiVo knows about the problem (see separate thread) but have only had minor success in getting rid of it.


----------



## greg_burns

bicker said:


> It's really just paranoia. I'm worried that Comcast won't re-pair without a truck roll. So if that is the case, I'll have to "roll back" to my old combo.
> 
> I'm upgrading solely because of the flakiness with the eSATA. We lost 2-5 recordings per week -- they're basically "(partial)" and for a good portion if not the entire recording, there is loads of blockiness -- it basically looks like the playback is skipping, but it is identical after rewind, so the problem is during recording. And it has been happening ever since I added the eSATA, goes away when I take the eSATA away, and TiVo knows about the problem (see separate thread) but have only had minor success in getting rid of it.


Oh wait. I thought you were more asking about keeping your recordings on your eSata drive. When you are really more concerned about loosing your CC pairing. Hmm...

I am not sure, but I fear if you put in a new drive drive that doesn't have the pairing info, your CC will need a truck roll (obviously). If you then, try and put back in the original drive (that had the pairing info), it may be too late. The cards may have been "reset". In my mind, this is like pulling a CC and sticking it in another device (like a TV), then trying to put it back in your Tivo. The act of putting in another device makes it reset. Right? Or maybe no... 

I truely don't know and can't say for sure what exactly will happen.

I know you paid extra to have a preformatted drive. But I would seriously consider using WinMFS anways on the new drive when it arrives. That way no fear about the pairing info being lost.


----------



## phantomsax

So here is a good one for you:

Since I upgraded the drive on my Tivo HD to a 1TB, I am still getting newly recorded programs coming up with the yellow icon in the Now Playing List, and the "This recording will be kept until at least tomorrow/tonight at xx:xx am/pm" when I go into the info. It does this on all programs unless I setup the Season Passes to "Save Until I Delete". 

Now the kicker is I only have 7 hours of HD content and 1 1/2 hours of SD content recorded right now, so even if I recorded 2 programs in HD constantly for the next 3 days straight, I still wouldn't be quite out of space. So how am I already out space?!?!?! I should have 148+ hours of HD recording space available by my math, and when I go into the system info it is showing me 156 hours of HD recording total. It has been doing this since it had the original drive in it but I just figured it was because the stock drive was so small.

Is anyone else having this problem? Is the Tivo just stupid when it comes to calculating the free space? Am I really at risk of losing programs if I don't mark them as Save Until I Delete?


----------



## phantomsax

lrhorer said:


> Um, I think you mean TB, not GB. I haven't seen a drive smaller than 30GB in ages.


Oops. Hehehe.  I don't even have a flash drive that small anymore. Long day of work followed up with tearing into my Tivo in the evening. Thank you for pointing out I am dumb.


----------



## Dssturbo1

phantomsax said:


> So here is a good one for you:
> 
> Since I upgraded the drive on my Tivo HD to a 1TB, I am still getting newly recorded programs coming up with the yellow icon in the Now Playing List, and the "This recording will be kept until at least tomorrow/tonight at xx:xx am/pm" when I go into the info. It does this on all programs unless I setup the Season Passes to "Save Until I Delete".
> 
> Now the kicker is I only have 7 hours of HD content and 1 1/2 hours of SD content recorded right now, so even if I recorded 2 programs in HD constantly for the next 3 days straight, I still wouldn't be quite out of space. So how am I already out space?!?!?! I should have 148+ hours of HD recording space available by my math, and when I go into the system info it is showing me 156 hours of HD recording total. It has been doing this since it had the original drive in it but I just figured it was because the stock drive was so small.
> 
> Is anyone else having this problem? Is the Tivo just stupid when it comes to calculating the free space? Am I really at risk of losing programs if I don't mark them as Save Until I Delete?


just normal operation. after 2 days it will put up the yellow dot icon and give that reminder info unless you change it to save until i delete.

no you will not lose it. even if it goes to the deleted folder, your Tivo will not delete it until it actually needs the space to record something and there is no free space or you decide to premanently delete it your self manually. so it could sit there with the yellpw dot or in your recently deleted folder for a long long time until your hard drive is filled up.


----------



## Bierboy

Dssturbo1 said:


> just normal operation. after 2 days it will put up the yellow dot icon and give that reminder info unless you change it to save until i delete.
> 
> no you will not lose it. even if it goes to the deleted folder, your Tivo will not delete it until it actually needs the space to record something and there is no free space or you decide to premanently delete it your self manually. so it could sit there with the yellpw dot or in your recently deleted folder for a long long time until your hard drive is filled up.


yeah...what he said...it's normal. Easiest way to alleviate your paranoia is to KUID all your shows.


----------



## greg_burns

Bierboy said:


> yeah...what he said...it's normal. Easiest way to alleviate your paranoia is to KUID all your shows.


Would not recommend doing that. If you do it will stop recordings things long before it is anywhere near out of space. I am not good at explaining the whys of that, but I will try and dig up some threads that do.

Read this kind of thing many times here...


CrispyCritter said:


> I imagine there's a good chance you are using a lot of KUID SPs. You really don't want to do that. KUID is meant to be used for the absolutely highest priority shows, and the TiVo scheduling algorithm doesn't want to take even the smallest chance you won't be able to record them.
> 
> The message means at some point in the next 12 days, you will run out of space unless you manually delete shows. It doesn't want to trust that you will do that, so it takes action now.
> 
> KUID should basically never be used for SP unless the shows are important enough so you will keep them forever. The TiVo will never delete any of the "Until Space Needed" shows unless it runs out of space (I've kept some for 4+ years). Running out of space shouldn't be an issue in your case, so there's no reason for KUID.


----------



## bkdtv

phantomsax said:


> Is anyone else having this problem? Is the Tivo just stupid when it comes to calculating the free space? Am I really at risk of losing programs if I don't mark them as Save Until I Delete?


I think it's time to read the TivoHD FAQ. 

From _II. Introduction, FAQ #24_ in the first post to this thread.



> *Why do recordings still show the yellow exclamation point with the message, "This recording may be deleted to make room for other programs" when only half my space is used?*
> 
> The TiVo always displays the yellow exclamation point (!) 24 hours after the "keep until" time expires. That does *not* mean your recording will be deleted soon. The yellow ball with the exclamation point only means that it is no longer protected, and can be deleted once it is the oldest recording on the DVR and space is needed for a new recording.
> 
> The TiVo will never delete anything unless space is needed for a new recording scheduled by the user. When space is needed for a new recording, the TiVo will first clear the _Recently Deleted_ and _Suggestions_ folders. Once the the _Recently Deleted_ and _Suggestions_ folders are empty, the TiVo will delete the oldest recording on the DVR that isn't marked as "keep until I delete."
> 
> When space is needed for a new recording, programs are deleted in the following order:
> 
> 
> _Recently Deleted_ folder - cleared starting with oldest program first; nothing else is deleted until this folder is clear;
> _Suggestions_ folder -- cleared starting with oldest program first; nothing else is deleted until this folder is clear;
> The oldest show on the DVR that is not marked as "keep until [date]" or "keep until I delete."
> If the oldest recording on the DVR is one that you would like to save, select it and mark it as "keep until I delete." The TiVo will then skip that recording and delete the next oldest instead.


----------



## phantomsax

Well, to reiterate what I said before, that is just plain dumb IMO. My girlfriend (non-technical by any standard) has been marking everything in our older Series 2 (we refer to that as 'her' Tivo, which keeps the peace in our home) as KUID for years because the yellow dot, yellow dot with exclamation point, and the warning saying it is going to only keep it until today/tomorrow..., all have led her to believe it was going to actually delete it. Why say it is going to delete something when it isn't? It even had me fooled and I have a degree in computer engineering and minored in human factors so I don't think it is an intelligence issue.

To quote Dr. Seuss: &#8220;I meant what I said and I said what I meant.&#8221;

I will let it go despite the ominous warnings and we will see what happens. I will however mark anything NOT on Hulu as KUID just in case it does zap anything. We go through it pretty regularly so it shouldn't be an issue. If I have 157 hours on my Tivo call the police because it most likely means I died.


----------



## bicker

greg_burns said:


> I know you paid extra to have a preformatted drive. But I would seriously consider using WinMFS anways on the new drive when it arrives. That way no fear about the pairing info being lost.


Okay, my wife read over the instructions, and her opinion matches yours -- yes we paid extra for the preformatted drive but saving the hassle of dealing with losing the CableCARD pairing information is worth the bother associated with using the WinMFS approach. (I thought about returning the drive, but between the restocking fee, and the hassle, and the fact that buying the preformatted drive when I didn't need it was mostly "my fault", we're probably going to just go ahead and do as you suggest, Greg. However, I'm going to do it, first, with a spare 500 GB drive I have sitting around. I wouldn't stick with that drive, in the long-run, because it isn't DVR rated, but I'd feel better doing a dry-run with WinMFS before running it on the preformatted drive.


----------



## bicker

Okay this is bad. On the restore, I get "Error writing media inode 1".

Now what?

I read the support messages on the WinMFS forum and it is worse than Greek to me.

My original plan seems much better, now.


----------



## greg_burns

bicker said:


> Okay this is bad. On the restore, I get "Error writing media inode 1".
> 
> Now what?
> 
> I read the support messages on the WinMFS forum and it is worse than Greek to me.
> 
> My original plan seems much better, now.


Glad to hear you tested on the 500GB to start.

From what I see on WinMFS support that it probably did not make a good backup. Probably because the original drive is having a problem. (Or the 500GB?)

http://www.mfslive.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=5389&sid=8fac56bb86f0ad3de3d82011798f9a8b


----------



## bicker

Okay, but I don't see how to go forward from there. It talks about using MFSCopy, but that requires a system where I can connect three SATA drives (the Windows OS, the original TiVo drive, and the new TiVo drive). I don't have one of those.


----------



## greg_burns

bicker said:


> Okay, but I don't see how to go forward from there. It talks about using MFSCopy, but that requires a system where I can connect three SATA drives (the Windows OS, the original TiVo drive, and the new TiVo drive). I don't have one of those.


Don't have one of what? (Oh, don't have a system that you can hook up three drives! See below, using a bootable CD you can disconnect your Windows drive)

I would download the MFSLive Linux Boot CD and give "dd_rescue" a shot.

This will copy your suspect drive to the 500GB (but still only be 250GB) in size. I would try that and see if you can get the Tivo to boot off the 500GB.

If that works, then you can then make another backup from the 500GB using WinMFS (onto your Windows drive). Then restore that backup right back onto the 500GB and do MFSAdd to test everything is working. If you get that far, I would feel confident that you could do the same to the new 1TB when it comes.

Anyways, that is what I would give a shot while waiting for the new drive to arrive. Don't really have anything to lose.


----------



## phantomsax

bicker said:


> Okay, but I don't see how to go forward from there. It talks about using MFSCopy, but that requires a system where I can connect three SATA drives (the Windows OS, the original TiVo drive, and the new TiVo drive). I don't have one of those.


You didn't hear it from me, but I would suggest if you only have 2 internal SATA ports, go out to your local electronics retailer and pick up a 3.5" SATA to USB enclosure (most USB 2.0 enclosures these days are SATA and not IDE), install the 2nd Tivo drive in there and connect it to your computer via USB port, do what you need, then remove the drive from case and neatly put it back in the box and return it to the store. Those who live near a Fry's Electronics know what I mean when I say "Fry's Rental Program". This is not a very nice thing to do, but will work in a pinch.

Otherwise I believe there is a Linux boot image you can burn to CD, disconnect your computer's system drive and connect both Tivo drives to SATA, then boot from the CD-ROM. I have never tried this method however.


----------



## greg_burns

Another method is to dd_rescue* copy using the old bumwine method. That is what I used way back in the day before WinMFS.

Those instructions have a lot of handholding that came in handy for me at the time. I would replace the "dd" command it uses with with the "dd_rescue". Should have same results as using a MFSLive Linux above, really just a matter of preference. Wouldn't need to do past step #9 since don't really care about expanding to use the full 500GB.

Just some thoughts of things to try. Depends on your comfort level.

*I assume dd_rescue is on the Knoppix boot CD that you download using bumwine method


----------



## bicker

Yes, I cannot use MFSCopy because I only have two SATA cables.

Anyway: My wife* got involved and we worked together to figure out how to do MFSLive. The 500 GB drive seemed to work well, so we went ahead with doing the copy onto the preformatted 1 TB drive and installed it into the TiVo.

The CableCARD pairings appear to be intact (as was expected).

However, the Closed Captions on at least the first TTCB recording (Numb3rs, on CBS, from last night), though, appear to be munged. However, I am going to withhold judgment on that score until I get both Primeval (Sci Fi) and Flashpoint (CBS) back over to the TiVo. For some reason, the Numb3rs .tivo file is either 2637M or 2157M (it was brought over _twice_, by T2SAMI), even though they were full hour-long broadcasts (I checked on the PC), while Flashpoint is 7671M and Primeval is 6496M, both of which seem more appropriate. If the Closed Captions are munged on both of those then (1) my wife is going to be _very_ upset, and (2) I'm going to be very concerned about TTG/TTCB, this being the first time we've actually relied on the TTCB part of it.

UPDATED: Yup, Primeval's Closed Captions are fine.

I'm going to be first to defend anyone (who isn't a hardware tech) who comes into this thread saying that upgrading your own drive (other than just by popping in a preformatted drive) sounds really scary. I've already done one backup and two copies, and I still am spooked by the whole thing. 

_______________________

* Another software developer; and she is much more hardware savvy than I am -- I'm really just a business management expert, who got into software development _at the end_ of my career, while she's been a software person a lot longer.


----------



## microbubba

The patient is back on the shelf and the transplant went just fine. 1TB WD10EVCS is online. 157 hours HD :up:

I was fortunate that my recent PC build had many SATA ports, overall took about 1.5 hours from start to finish, including hardware swap.

Thanks to everyone on the boards for input & guidance. And thanks for WinMFS!


----------



## chandler1818

Just bought a new 500 GB official dvr expander for my S3. I have tried to install several times but tivo does not recognize the expander. anyone else out there experienced something similar or solved the problem somehow or should i just go back to best buy and get another one.


----------



## greg_burns

chandler1818 said:


> Just bought a new 500 GB official dvr expander for my S3. I have tried to install several times but tivo does not recognize the expander. anyone else out there experienced something similar or solved the problem somehow or should i just go back to best buy and get another one.


Does this help?
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7248255#post7248255


----------



## chandler1818

Thanks, Greg. I think I was not following the directions properly yesterday because I got it to work this morning. On to my next problem with the Tivo I need to fix.


----------



## tannett

Okay, so few months ago I upgraded my actual S3 to a WD10EVCS and it went so well that I decided to work on the THD this weekend. The catch was that I had married a My DVR Expander to it via plug and play and thereby caused myself a lot of extra research since I really want to maintain my recordings and don't have room on my desktop to store them all. Also, I wanted to take the original 160GB and the 500GB expander and merge them onto a single drive and do away with the expander.

I read everything I could on MFSLive, realized I'd have to use the old tools as well as the partition consolidation steps and went through all of that yesterday only to realize that these instructions were meant for an actual Series 3 and not a THD.

So, now I have all my programs consolidated on the 1TB, but I have the phantom "Wrong external storage device" loop error and have no idea how to solve it since what appears to work on an S3 doesn't work for the THD.

Are there _any_ options out there for consolidating two drives to one on a THD? I'm a programmer by day so can probably handle some pretty complex steps, so if there is any way to accomplish this, I would love to know what I can try.

Thanks,

Todd


----------



## greg_burns

tannett said:


> I read everything I could on MFSLive, realized I'd have to use the old tools as well as the partition consolidation steps and went through all of that yesterday only to realize that these instructions were meant for an actual Series 3 and not a THD.


Interesting, didn't know that was even possible on an original S3. Got any links to the thread over there?


----------



## richsadams

tannett said:


> Are there _any_ options out there for consolidating two drives to one on a THD? I'm a programmer by day so can probably handle some pretty complex steps, so if there is any way to accomplish this, I would love to know what I can try.


Unfortunately I think what you're trying to do has been attempted without success. If you haven't done so already I'd say your best bet is to throw yourself at the mercy of Spike (the author of winMFS, etc.) over at the MFSLive Forum and see what he might have to say.

It would be great to find out that it could be done so please come back and share if you're successful...or even if you're not...still good to know.


----------



## tannett

Yeah, the place that first caught my attention was in the quickstart that talked about a 2-1 copy: http://www.mfslive.org/softwareguidep3.htm#s3dtod.

There was actually a statement that confused me that said:

Option 3.20 To copy everything from original capacity (250GB) internal drive and eSATA drive to bigger single drive and expand capacity. ... This option is built into WinMFS so give it a try.

But from everywhere else, it says this isn't possible so I decided to rule this out first! The first thing I did was plug them both in SATA on the desktop and try that and I _was_ able to do the backup with no programs, but couldn't do the two to one copy of programs.

Then, digging through articles, found the following that talked about it:

http://www.mfslive.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1179
http://www.mfslive.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1145
http://www.mfslive.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1123&p=5710#p5710

and the original source of a lot of this:
http://www.************.com/forum/showthread.php?p=297557

And, for those that don't know UNIX (like myself), this was the biggest help to generate the exact command you need to use: http://www.mfslive.org/cgen.php

So, now I'm sitting here with my TiVo opened up, three hard drives and desperate to figure out a way to make this all work. I think I'll just put the original back in for now and do some more research and try again in a few weeks. *sigh*


----------



## richsadams

Wow...that is some research and hard work...well done! Like Greg, I didn't know you could even get as far as you have! :up:

Is it feasible, at least temporarily, to install one of the HDD's in your computer and transfer your recordings (if they're still available)? I know it's time consuming and not the ideal situation, but at least you'd be able to get back to square one. Once the new drive is installed in TiVo you could transfer them back. The downside is that you can't transfer copy-protected recordings, but otherwise might that be an option?


----------



## tannett

Hi Rich... thanks. I had remembered someone talking about the 2 to 1 awhile back, so it just took some digging. I didn't think it was going to take my entire Saturday to try and figure it out though!

I just put everything back to normal and everything is still on the drives, so at least I haven't lost anything yet.

By transfer, do you mean via TiVoDesktop, or is there some way to hook the drive directly to the computer and transfer things much faster? The only problem with either of these is I don't have sufficent space to transfer everything on the drive, but could probably save a lot of it.

What's amusing is that if this had happened on my Series 3 that I use to watch just general TV, I wouldn't have cared as much, but the THD is down in my theater and where I've stored all the movies that I've recorded over the years. 

Guess this is a lesson learned about the "easy" path of using a DVR expander vs. just should've upgraded it right away.


----------



## chandler1818

I am really surprised how loud the expander is. Far louder than the S3; I can actually hear it across the room. I may actually take it back. But before I do that, is there anyway to minimize the sound?


----------



## richsadams

tannett said:


> By transfer, do you mean via TiVoDesktop, or is there some way to hook the drive directly to the computer and transfer things much faster? The only problem with either of these is I don't have sufficent space to transfer everything on the drive, but could probably save a lot of it.


I was thinking of TiVo Desktop or PyTiVo, etc. If you can connect your TiVo to your network via Ethernet it would cut down transfer times as compared to wireless, but still a bit of a pain.

You mentioned having three HDD's? I was thinking that you could install one of them (not the replacement of course) in your desktop to add more space and transfer the recordings. Or when you said "three" did you mean your OEM, your Expander and your replacement? If so, that's not an option. Might be worth picking up another drive though. You could always use it as a computer backup drive or start building that NAS you've been thinking about. 

In any case, best of luck and let us know how things work out.


----------



## bkdtv

chandler1818 said:


> I am really surprised how loud the expander is. Far louder than the S3; I can actually hear it across the room. I may actually take it back. But before I do that, is there anyway to minimize the sound?


If it is that loud, I think it may be defective. I couldn't hear my 1TB Expander over the TiVo.


----------



## richsadams

bkdtv said:


> If it is that loud, I think it may be defective. I couldn't hear my 1TB Expander over the TiVo.


Agreed, if it's much louder than TiVo it sounds like something may be wrong with it.


----------



## Bierboy

chandler1818 said:


> I am really surprised how loud the expander is. Far louder than the S3; I can actually hear it across the room. I may actually take it back. But before I do that, is there anyway to minimize the sound?


Which one do you have? I have the 500GB, and I can't hear it from 8 feet away. I agree with other posters that there's probably something wrong with it.


----------



## chandler1818

the S3 is pretty much silent to me so any noise sounds like a lot to me. I think I might just need to get used to it. Is it quieter on its side or should I stand it up?


----------



## richsadams

chandler1818 said:


> the S3 is pretty much silent to me so any noise sounds like a lot to me. I think I might just need to get used to it. Is it quieter on its side or should I stand it up?


What kind of noise is it making? Clicking, humming...??

It shouldn't make any difference if it's placed vertically or horizontally. The only thing you might run into are the harmonics generated though the surface it's on. If it helps you can try isolating it by setting it on some sound absorbent material like a mouse pad.

Still...it shouldn't really be making any appreciable noise. If it is it's not likely to get better; could get worse and if it fails you'll lose all of the recordings made since it was installed.


----------



## lrhorer

bicker said:


> I'm going to be first to defend anyone (who isn't a hardware tech) who comes into this thread saying that upgrading your own drive (other than just by popping in a preformatted drive) sounds really scary. I've already done one backup and two copies, and I still am spooked by the whole thing.


I really don't know why it would be "scary". It's true one may not be guaranteed success first try by any stretch of the imagination, but considering what is at risk is a few hours of tinkering, possibly a few lost TV shows, and worst case having to shell out $20 for a copy of InstantCake, the risk is hardly daunting. With the huge volume of sometimes conflicting and often cryptic information on the matter, I can certainly understand one's being confused and uncertain how best to proceed, but to my mind even for a neophyte the cost of a mistake is too low to rise to the level of being "scary". Of course, it's always possible one might drop a hard drive, or forget to unplug the TiVo and drop a Torx driver on the live motherboard, sending up sparks and flames, but ordinary precautions can almost completely eliminate such problems.


----------



## lrhorer

tannett said:


> Yeah, the place that first caught my attention was in the quickstart that talked about a 2-1 copy: http://www.mfslive.org/softwareguidep3.htm#s3dtod.
> 
> There was actually a statement that confused me that said:
> 
> Option 3.20 To copy everything from original capacity (250GB) internal drive and eSATA drive to bigger single drive and expand capacity. ... This option is built into WinMFS so give it a try.
> 
> But from everywhere else, it says this isn't possible so I decided to rule this out first! The first thing I did was plug them both in SATA on the desktop and try that and I _was_ able to do the backup with no programs, but couldn't do the two to one copy of programs.


Whether this is possible (at this time) or not depends on how the TiVo was expanded. If the expansion was on the original S3 using the KickStart method, or on either a THD or S3 using MFS_Live or WinMFS, then copying from two married drives to one is possible with some limitations. If the external drive was married using TiVo's built-in automated expansion routine, then you are out of luck as far as 2 => 1 copying is concerned at this time.

Edit:
I believe you said you are a software developer. If you are intimately familiar with drive partitions at the byte level and are comfortable with manipulating them by hand (not using fdisk or similar utilities, but using dd), you may be able to handle a manual copy and expansion. You'll need to boot in to a recent Linux distro and obtain a copy of tivopart. Spike and Jamie can probably point you in the right direction as far as understanding what needs to be copied and how. I would not recommend attempting this unless you are very familiar with partitioning structures at the hardware level.


----------



## bicker

lrhorer said:


> I really don't know why it would be "scary".


And I think that is really the source of the problems: Folks who know and understand this stuff very well failing to understand how the vast majority of folks don't.



lrhorer said:


> It's true one may not be guaranteed success first try by any stretch of the imagination


Well, be fair: "Error writing inode 1" isn't very descriptive. Beyond that, the specter of blowing out the chips on the motherboard due to static electricity is something that most normal people don't have much experience with. Whenever I've been in a context where electronic devices were being worked on, there were grounded work-benches, anti-static mats, and heel or wrist straps. I'm not comfortable with doing such work without such protections in place, and I suspect most folks who don't even have the exposure I have had would be even less aware of what could go wrong.


----------



## beobuff

chandler1818 said:


> I am really surprised how loud the expander is. Far louder than the S3; I can actually hear it across the room. I may actually take it back. But before I do that, is there anyway to minimize the sound?





richsadams said:


> What kind of noise is it making? Clicking, humming...??
> 
> It shouldn't make any difference if it's placed vertically or horizontally. The only thing you might run into are the harmonics generated though the surface it's on. If it helps you can try isolating it by setting it on some sound absorbent material like a mouse pad.
> 
> Still...it shouldn't really be making any appreciable noise. If it is it's not likely to get better; could get worse and if it fails you'll lose all of the recordings made since it was installed.


Gentlemen: FWIIW, I had the same problem with my original expander drive, which I kept for several weeks but eventually swapped out. It seemed to get slightly quieter after being run in for a few weeks, but still seemed way too noisy to me, so I had the manufacturer replace it. The replacement turned out to be a factory refurb unit, judging by a few minor nicks and dings on the case, but it is at least a good 50% quieter than the original. It is still not exactly silent and its noise covers completely the almost inaudible sound of the Tivo HD drive.


----------



## Bierboy

beobuff said:


> Gentlemen: FWIIW, I had the same problem with my original expander drive, which I kept for several weeks but eventually swapped out. It seemed to get slightly quieter after being run in for a few weeks, but still seemed way too noisy to me, so I had the manufacturer replace it. The replacement turned out to be a factory refurb unit, judging by a few minor nicks and dings on the case, but it is at least a good 50% quieter than the original. It is still not exactly silent and its noise covers completely the almost inaudible sound of the Tivo HD drive.


I still maintain the chandler1818's expander is defective. Mine has been virtually silent from the day I first plugged it in.


----------



## richsadams

bicker said:


> And I think that is really the source of the problems: Folks who know and understand this stuff very well failing to understand how the vast majority of folks don't.


I have to agree that performing any upgrade (TiVo, automobile, computer, networks, servers , etc.) is if not scary, somewhat unnerving at minimum. I end up enjoying the fruits of my labor afterward but the "time of trial" is always unsettling.

Ever since upgrading my S1 way back when I've always been nervous throughout the procedure, worried that I might miss a step, etc. I guess I don't worry about losing programs or any of that, I'm just afraid it won't work (possibly ever again) when I'm finished. My biggest fear was/is what to do if it doesn't work...how do I fix it, where do I turn (other than starting all over again)? Borking a working machine isn't something anyone wants to deal with.

Back in the Hinsdale upgrade days I missed all sorts of steps and spent many late night hours tinkering with code that made little sense at the time trying to get it right. I was always successful because I have a thing about not letting inanimate objects alone until they are doing what they're supposed to be doing. But I can certainly empathize with the tremors one feels during the journey from contemplation to success.

That said, Spike (MFSLive.org) has done an unbelievable job putting together a program (winMFS - dare I call it simple?) that just works if you follow the directions. As much as I detest PC's I keep one active if for nothing else...to complete my next TiVo upgrade. Kudos too to bkdtv for capturing almost everything anyone could want to know about upgrading their TiVo on the first post. :up: :up: :up:

So when any of us say that it's "easy" to upgrade a TiVo the caveat should be, it's not "plug and pray" (except for the approved WD My DVR Expander), but if you're comfortable adding a new hard drive to a computer, it is in fact fairly easy. Even if you're a first-timer, the instructions are clear and it's a good Saturday afternoon learning experience with great rewards.

It's that moment that you plug TiVo back in, sit on the couch and wait for it to fire up properly...that's the worst part for me. It seems to take at least three times as long as normal (it really doesn't) and holding my breath for that long is probably not healthy.  But when TiVo starts down that yellow slide...life is good again...even better.

Wow, that was cathartic! Okay, bring on the next models! I'm ready to upgrade!


----------



## drhankz

:up:*I agree with Rich* - The procedures are so well documented anyone should be able to Happily Upgrade their TiVo


----------



## richsadams

drhankz said:


> :up:*I agree with Rich*


...That's dangerous, slippery slope territory my friend. Be afraid...be very afraid!


----------



## drhankz

richsadams said:


> ...That's dangerous, slippery slope territory my friend. Be afraid...be very afraid!


*YOUR POST* Did a great job articulating the state of the upgrade 
info and commended all the folks who helped get us to this stage.

Who can disagree with that


----------



## tannett

lrhorer said:


> Whether this is possible (at this time) or not depends on how the TiVo was expanded. If the expansion was on the original S3 using the KickStart method, or on either a THD or S3 using MFS_Live or WinMFS, then copying from two married drives to one is possible with some limitations. If the external drive was married using TiVo's built-in automated expansion routine, then you are out of luck as far as 2 => 1 copying is concerned at this time.


Yeah, I just used the Plug n play to get them connected, but if I'd known then what I know now, I wouldn't have done it. Should have just upgraded the drive from day one. Its frustrating that trying to do things the "right" way and not void the warranty causes headaches later once you're ready to open up that case.



lrhorer said:


> Edit:
> I believe you said you are a software developer. If you are intimately familiar with drive partitions at the byte level and are comfortable with manipulating them by hand (not using fdisk or similar utilities, but using dd), you may be able to handle a manual copy and expansion. You'll need to boot in to a recent Linux distro and obtain a copy of tivopart. Spike and Jamie can probably point you in the right direction as far as understanding what needs to be copied and how. I would not recommend attempting this unless you are very familiar with partitioning structures at the hardware level.


I'm definately not that familiar with the internal workings of a drive, but if I try and mess it up, it won't hurt anything if I just decide to unpair the drives and use WinMFS to copy over the failed attempt on the new drive, will it? Right now, I have an unusable 1TB drive with everything copied to it, so I'd be willing to give it a shot.


----------



## bicker

richsadams said:


> That said, Spike (MFSLive.org) has done an unbelievable job putting together a program (winMFS - dare I call it simple?) that just works if you follow the directions.


Except when it doesn't (i.e., "Error writing inode 1").

Don't get me wrong. I'm sure everyone involved in this thread and MFSLive have done a great job. It is just isn't destined to be easy, eh?


----------



## greg_burns

bicker said:


> Except when it doesn't (i.e., "Error writing inode 1")


I know what you mean. ("Error Number 9 anyone?")


----------



## richsadams

bicker said:


> Except when it doesn't (i.e., "Error writing inode 1").
> 
> Don't get me wrong. I'm sure everyone involved in this thread and MFSLive have done a great job. It is just isn't destined to be easy, eh?





greg_burns said:


> I know what you mean. ("Error Number 9 anyone?")


Good points. I've never run into any errors, so haven't had to deal with the frustration that must cause.


----------



## bicker

And a message like "Cannot restore because there is a bad checksum in the backup file" (which is only my guess about what "Error writing inode 1") would be a bit better, though still frustrating, since there is (was) apparently no way to work past the problem.


----------



## Teeps

This is the story:

- I have a Series3 with an eSATA drive attached.
- The internal drive was failing and I wanted to keep all recordings, cable card settings etc. 
- I replaced the 250GB OEM drive in my Series3 with the same sized Seagate DB35 (Seagate DB35.4 ST3250310CS Hard Drive 
250GB - 7200rpm - Serial ATA/300 - Serial ATA - Internal)
http://www.buy.com/prod/seagate-db3...00rpm-serial-ata-300/q/loc/101/207985291.html
- Because I did not want to lose recordings, I used the Linux "dd" command to make a bit-for-bit copy of the original.

"dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb" (W/O quotes.)
This took about 5 hours to complete.

NOTE: The "dd" command only worked (on my computer) when both drives were on the same channel, that is Primary Master =(sda)/Slave =(sdb) or Secondary Master/Slave . 

As in the past, when "dd" is running, there is no indication of progress, other than disk drive indicator on the computer flickering, and of course you can hear the drives clicking away.

- Success: TiVo booted up as though nothing had changed, and best of all;
all original recordings, cable card info, SP's etc. are intact.


----------



## lrhorer

Teeps said:


> Because I did not want to lose recordings, I used the Linux "dd" command to make a bit-for-bit copy of the original.
> 
> "dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb" (W/O quotes.)
> This took about 5 hours to complete.
> 
> NOTE: The "dd" command will only work when both drives are on the same channel, that is Primary Master =(sda)/Slave =(sdb) or Secondary Master/Slave .


What? Do you have documentation for this? The dd command should work with any valid linux devices.



Teeps said:


> As in the past, when "dd" is running, there is no indication of progress, other than disk drive indicator on the computer flickering, and of course you can hear the drives clicking away.


Try:


Code:


watch iostat 1 2

This will show the number of blocks (usually 512 bytes each) read and written on each drive both cumulative and per second.


----------



## 1283

Teeps said:


> "dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb" (W/O quotes.)
> This took about 5 hours to complete.
> 
> NOTE: The "dd" command will only work when both drives are on the same channel, that is Primary Master =(sda)/Slave =(sdb) or Secondary Master/Slave .


For PATA, it's better to have the two drives on *DIFFERENT* channels. For SATA, each one is a separate channel. There is no master/slave for SATA.

I think the default block size for dd is 512 bytes. If so, it would have been much faster to use a larger block size, such as 1MB, if there are no bad sectors. If you do have bad sectors, then you need to add "conv=noerror,sync".


----------



## Teeps

lrhorer said:


> Do you have documentation for this?


No. It was my observation. I wrote what worked for me. If it causes confusion, then petition the moderator to delete my post and any further conversation with regard to it.
Or
Feel free to make corrections as needed.


----------



## lrhorer

richsadams said:


> Hmmmm. It seems likely that the same soft reboot issue would raise its ugly head with the 1.5TB version of that drive, but without trying it's really an unknown.


'Confirmed. The WD15EADS will hard boot, but will not soft boot when used as a primary drive in an S3 TiVo.


----------



## lrhorer

Teeps said:


> No. It was my observation. I wrote what worked for me. If it causes confusion, then petition the moderator to delete my post and any further conversation with regard to it.
> Or
> Feel free to make corrections as needed.


The dd command is a low level copy command. Technically, it's not even a Linux command, and as one can easily see its syntax does not follow Linux conventions. In any case, however, the dd command simply opens an input stream and copies it to an output stream. In general the only limitations are the source and target must be valid Linux device files, they must be available when requested, and the target must be writable. If you had trouble performing the copy when the two drives were on separate channels, I'm not sure why, but I'm quite certain it was not due to a limitation in the dd command.


----------



## richsadams

lrhorer said:


> 'Confirmed. The WD15EADS will hard boot, but will not soft boot when used as a primary drive in an S3 TiVo.


That's too bad. It would have been a nice addition to the recommended drives.

Thanks for being a guinea pig and for the feedback even if it isn't what was hoped for. :up:


----------



## tannett

Does anyone know if there is a way to expand a drive after the fact if I used the dd command that Teeps mentioned? Could I copy my original 160GB TiVoHD drive to the 1TB drive and then expand it?

My original intent was to do away with the esata drive, but if I can preserve all of my recordings, I'd go ahead and keep the expander attached to it if this would work.


----------



## greg_burns

tannett said:


> Does anyone know if there is a way to expand a drive after the fact if I used the dd command that Teeps mentioned? Could I copy my original 160GB TiVoHD drive to the 1TB drive and then expand it?
> 
> My original intent was to do away with the esata drive, but if I can preserve all of my recordings, I'd go ahead and keep the expander attached to it if this would work.


I am going to vote no.

I do believe you can "dd" your 160GB to a 1TB with and keep the external attached. You will only still be using 160GB of the 1TB. I do *NOT* believe you can then run "mfstool add -x /dev/sdb -r 4" (or whatever) and claim the extra space while still keeping the external married.


----------



## Teeps

lrhorer said:


> The dd command is a low level copy command. Technically, it's not even a Linux command, and as one can easily see its syntax does not follow Linux conventions. In any case, however, the dd command simply opens an input stream and copies it to an output stream. In general the only limitations are the source and target must be valid Linux device files, they must be available when requested, and the target must be writable. If you had trouble performing the copy when the two drives were on separate channels, I'm not sure why, but I'm quite certain it was not due to a limitation in the dd command.


Thanks for clearing that up. 
I know just enough about linux to be dangerous. I depend on known good command lines to get the job done.
As is always my luck with this stuff, the hardware connection to my PC was just another problem to contend with.

In retrospect, I should have written that "dd" did not work, in my system, with drives connected to sdb and sdd.


----------



## tannett

greg_burns said:


> I am going to vote no.
> 
> I do believe you can "dd" your 160GB to a 1TB with and keep the external attached. You will only still be using 160GB of the 1TB. I do *NOT* believe you can then run "mfstool add -x /dev/sdb -r 4" (or whatever) and claim the extra space while still keeping the external married.


That's what I figured... If it were that "easy", I'm sure others would have done it... I've been transferring as much as I can do my desktop harddrive and probably going to take the plunge and unmarry the external and upgrade this weekend. Hope it goes as smoothly as my Series 3 did a few months back!


----------



## CaseyK24

A quick general question that might have been answered in the 97 pages but can't find it.

When using WINMfs with both the new and old drive attached to preserve your recordings, if you have a full original 120GB drive with 20 Hours HD programs about how long will it take to copy all the data to the new HD? Assume an average case in speed on the computer and components. Just trying to get a general ballpark timeframe.

Thanks,
Casey


----------



## greg_burns

CaseyK24 said:


> A quick general question that might have been answered in the 97 pages but can't find it.
> 
> When using WINMfs with both the new and old drive attached to preserve your recordings, if you have a full original 120GB drive with 20 Hours HD programs about how long will it take to copy all the data to the new HD? Assume an average case in speed on the computer and components. Just trying to get a general ballpark timeframe.
> 
> Thanks,
> Casey


When copying using linux dd command of my S3's 250GB drive it was reporting 60MB/s. Took 4235 seconds. 

Also, I believe TivoHD has 160GB drive (120 Hours).


----------



## delgadobb

As an old school Tivo upgrader from the days of MFSTools & MFSLive, I've been fence-sitting on getting my TivoHD & upgrading. I'm happy to report I'm waiting no more.

After getting my TivoHD, I bought the Hitachi 0A38016 1TB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache drive from NewEgg when it was $70 AR. 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145233

I finally got around to updating my TivoHD & it couldn't have been easier. Got the stock TivoHD activated (lifetime) & connected to Tivo several times to get the latest SW updates. Then I plugged the drives into a spare PC with Windows XP SP2, ran WinMFS, did the copy & supersized. MFSTools was useful if a bit cumbersome in its time; WinMFS was pretty easy once I got past the minimal interface.

Voila! 157 HD hours, 1368 SD hours & one great picture even on standard definition. Menus & program scrolling are very quick, have others noticed this after a drive upgrade? Maybe it was this way all along & I just didn't pay enough attention.

At any rate, so far the Hitachi seems to be working fine. I also did an upgrade with a WD 750 GB 'Green' drive, which is plan 'B' if I have problems with the Hitachi. Otherwise, it's probably going in the next Tivo HD.


----------



## richsadams

Congrats, welcome to the club and enjoy!


----------



## lrhorer

richsadams said:


> That's too bad. It would have been a nice addition to the recommended drives.
> 
> Thanks for being a guinea pig and for the feedback even if it isn't what was hoped for. :up:


Oh, that's OK. I have to re-configure my backup system tonight or tomorrow night, anyway. It has 4 Seagate 1.5T drives on it, so when I take it down, I'll just swap one of the Seagates for the WD drive. Just for grins, I tried disabling SMART on the drive, but it makes no difference.


----------



## lrhorer

delgadobb said:


> I finally got around to updating my TivoHD & it couldn't have been easier.


Yeah, it's gotten really easy for the more common situations.



delgadobb said:


> MFSTools was useful if a bit cumbersome in its time


It still has its place. There are quite a few things MFSTools can do that WinMFS cannot. I used the MFS_Live CD to copy a 250G internal and 750G external to a 1.5T internal drive without a loss of any programs. I tied to compile MFSTools on one of my Linux systems, but I'm having some trouble, so I just used the Live CD.


----------



## bicker

Indeed, WinMFS didn't work for me. I had to use MFSTools.


----------



## delgadobb

lrhorer said:


> Yeah, it's gotten really easy for the more common situations.
> 
> It still has its place. There are quite a few things MFSTools can do that WinMFS cannot. I used the MFS_Live CD to copy a 250G internal and 750G external to a 1.5T internal drive without a loss of any programs. I tied to compile MFSTools on one of my Linux systems, but I'm having some trouble, so I just used the Live CD.


I was still waiting for the other shoe to drop, it seemed too easy! No second trys, no having to double-check parameters, just set it & go.

As for your merging the 250G & 750G drives on the 1.5T, I'll note that in case I do something similar in the future. You didn't find a way to use all 1.5T, did you? I've got a 1.5T Seagate (upgraded firmware) that I'd love to use in the HD, but my understanding is only 1.26 TB of it is addressable (I still may do it anyways & live with the lost space).


----------



## Tom Farr

Hello, 
Not sure if this thread is the place, but I was wondering if anyone has considered replacing their HDD with a solid-state drive. Less noise, less electricity used. I'm not a techie, so I have no idea how easy it would be... 
Thanks, 
Tom Farr


----------



## richsadams

Tom Farr said:


> Hello,
> Not sure if this thread is the place, but I was wondering if anyone has considered replacing their HDD with a solid-state drive. Less noise, less electricity used. I'm not a techie, so I have no idea how easy it would be...
> Thanks,
> Tom Farr


I can't remember if it's been discussed on this thread or not, but I remember a few folks talking about it a while back. IIRC the thinking was that a) they are still too small capacity-wise, particularly for any amount of HD recording and b) they are prohibitively costly...although they are coming down in price. Otherwise, AFAIK there's no reason that replacing a mechanical HDD with an SSD wouldn't work. Might make sense one day, but I don't think it will be any time soon.

Although it's almost totally OT, if you want to see SSD awesomeness...check this video out. WARNING: Geek overload potential.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

From section 8 of the FAQ:



bkdtv said:


> ... Verizon FiOS does not pair CableCards to a specific TiVo...


Can anyone in the Westchester, NY area confirm if the statement above is still Verizon's policy?

Actually, I'll expose my ignorance: On which diagnostics screen can I verify if the cards are paired to the S3?

Thanks!


----------



## bkdtv

DCIFRTHS said:


> Can anyone in the Westchester, NY area confirm if the statement above is still Verizon's policy?


I can confirm that is still Verizon's policy in all service areas.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

bkdtv said:


> I can confirm that is still Verizon's policy in all service areas.


Good news  According to my installer, and the person on the phone that activated the cards, they do pair them. I think they may have confused ACTIVATED with PAIRING.

If anyone knows the answer, I am still curious as to where the pairing information appears in the diagnostic screens of the TiVo.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

I'm still curious about FiOS and paring: Does anyone know if there are any copy protected (not just encrypted) channels on FiOS? If so, what channel and station is it?


----------



## bkdtv

DCIFRTHS said:


> Good news  According to my installer, and the person on the phone that activated the cards, they do pair them. I think they may have confused ACTIVATED with PAIRING.
> 
> If anyone knows the answer, I am still curious as to where the pairing information appears in the diagnostic screens of the TiVo.


The pairing information is displayed on the "CableCard Pairing" screen under the CableCard menus. The TiVo displays the pairing information but it is up to the cable company whether to use/require it. The TiVo has no idea whether your cable company uses the pairing information.



DCIFRTHS said:


> I'm still curious about FiOS and paring: Does anyone know if there are any copy protected (not just encrypted) channels on FiOS? If so, what channel and station is it?


There are no copy protected channels.  Ssssh.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

bkdtv said:


> The pairing information is displayed on the "CableCard Pairing" screen under the CableCard menus. The TiVo displays the pairing information but it is up to the cable company whether to use/require it. The TiVo has no idea whether your cable company uses the pairing information.


Ah!



bkdtv said:


> There are no copy protected channels.  Ssssh.




So the only real world tests are to: Pull the card from the S3, and put it in my TV. If it works then, it it's safe to say there is no pairing ... *OR* ... tune in a copy protected channel on the S3 (which should not display properly if the cards aren't paired). Correct?

Any idea what the value "eCM MAC:" is on the CableCARD Pairing menu? Mine has a value of "-.-.-.-". Is this normal?

BTW, I completely missed the _CableCARD Pairing_ screen  I used to have SA CableCARDs, and this screen menu item wasn't available. The Motorola cards seem to give up more info than the SA cards do


----------



## bicker

I was led to think that the danger was that the service provider that relies on pairing information would detect a mispairing and there would be no way to "go back" without the service provider resetting the by-then-wiped data in their records. (I didn't believe that, btw.)

I'm still unclear why the pairing would be to data on the hard drive, instead of something that all devices are likely to have, like a network address.


----------



## svesce

A quick note of thanks for all the great info and insight on this thread. With only a few minor hiccups (all my fault -- note to self -- remember to run WinMFS as admin or your drives would show up!), was able to upgrade our Tivo HD to 1 TB drive and finally we are able to enjoy the box as I originally envisioned.

Really appreciate the great guidance -- especially to Rich for the helpful tips and encouragement.

Thanks gents!


----------



## lrhorer

delgadobb said:


> I was still waiting for the other shoe to drop, it seemed too easy! No second trys, no having to double-check parameters, just set it & go.


That's about it.



delgadobb said:


> As for your merging the 250G & 750G drives on the 1.5T, I'll note that in case I do something similar in the future.


The current tools do not work if the drives were married by the Tivo internal automatic expansion tool. You might wish to bear that in mind.



delgadobb said:


> You didn't find a way to use all 1.5T, did you? I've got a 1.5T Seagate (upgraded firmware) that I'd love to use in the HD, but my understanding is only 1.26 TB of it is addressable (I still may do it anyways & live with the lost space).


Not programmatically, no. There are a couple of manual methods, but none of them is for the neophyte.


----------



## lrhorer

bicker said:


> I was led to think that the danger was that the service provider that relies on pairing information would detect a mispairing


On a one-way host (like the TiVo), there is no way for a service provider to detect anything at all. It's possible the service provider might have to send a hit to the TiVo to remarry the host and CableCard(s), requiring you to call them.



bicker said:


> I'm still unclear why the pairing would be to data on the hard drive, instead of something that all devices are likely to have, like a network address.


UDCPs like the TiVo do not have network addresses. I'm unsure what you mean otherwise. The only semi-permanent storage medium the TiVo has is the hard drive. Any information - such as an encryption key - is stored on the hard drive.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

lrhorer said:


> On a one-way host (like the TiVo), there is no way for a service provider to detect anything at all. It's possible the service provider might have to send a hit to the TiVo to remarry the host and CableCard(s), requiring you to call them.


I had to do have one of my S3 boxes paired after upgrading the hard drive (Cablevision). None of the copy protected shows would tune in until they sent a hit.



lrhorer said:


> UDCPs like the TiVo do not have network addresses. I'm unsure what you mean otherwise. The only semi-permanent storage medium the TiVo has is the hard drive. Any information - such as an encryption key - is stored on the hard drive.


Maybe he is referring to the MAC address.


----------



## IJustLikeTivo

My series 3 is rebooting fairly often starting last weekend. The only thing I did was move an external expansion unit and when I did the drive started to make noise like the internal fan was failing. It stopped but then the unit started rebooting. It's an Antec unit with a WD drive inside and worked great for the last two months.

So, here is the question. I have ordered a new case to try and see if the fans are dead and overheating. Can I turn off the unit and move the drive to the new case without a problem? Since the pairing info is related to the drive, the Tivo shouldn't see that the external housing is new, right?

If this doesn't work, I have to assume the external drive is dying or the internal one ( again... sigh ) can anyone direct me to a page which shows the steps to run the drive diagnostics which is how I had to prove it to Tivo the last time?


----------



## richsadams

IJustLikeTivo said:


> My series 3 is rebooting fairly often starting last weekend. The only thing I did was move an external expansion unit and when I did the drive started to make noise like the internal fan was failing. It stopped but then the unit started rebooting. It's an Antec unit with a WD drive inside and worked great for the last two months.
> 
> So, here is the question. I have ordered a new case to try and see if the fans are dead and overheating. Can I turn off the unit and move the drive to the new case without a problem? Since the pairing info is related to the drive, the Tivo shouldn't see that the external housing is new, right?
> 
> If this doesn't work, I have to assume the external drive is dying or the internal one ( again... sigh ) can anyone direct me to a page which shows the steps to run the drive diagnostics which is how I had to prove it to Tivo the last time?


Sorry to hear about your frustration. It sounds more like a cable/connection issue if it happened when you moved your external drive. I'm sure you did, but double-check the connections on both ends to see that they're snug...reversing the cable helps sometimes.

Even if the fan quit in the MX-1 case, it shouldn't affect the drive itself other than it may get warm, but even then the drive can get quite hot w/o any issues. (Long-term it's best to keep the temps down of course.)

If reseating the cable doesn't work I'd unplug TiVo, unplug the MX-1, pop it open and have a look around. (You can run the fan w/o the HDD to see if it's still working.) Be sure all of the connections are tight.

All of that said, if you want to run some of TiVo's built-in diagnostics check the Kickstart post here. There are various repair options and KS54 runs a diagnostic. None are fool-proof though. About the only real way to determine if a drive is failing is to connect it to a computer and run a full diagnostic like WD's Lifeguard.

It's possible that moving it and the problem are coincidental (unless you dropped the drive on a concrete floor or something ) but it's more likely that something's come loose somewhere.

Hopefully you can get it resolved and not lose your recordings. Best of luck and let us know how things go.


----------



## IJustLikeTivo

Thanks, I did check all the connection just in case I shook something loose. Good idea to check the internals, I'll do that as well.

If all else fails, I will kickstart diagnostic the drives and see if they say they are OK. I appreciate the help, I'll post results one way or another.


----------



## delgadobb

lrhorer said:


> The current tools do not work if the drives were married by the Tivo internal automatic expansion tool. You might wish to bear that in mind.


Thanks for the heads-up - at any rate, I'll probably stick to single-drive upgrades for simplicity's sake.



lrhorer said:


> (Re: 1.5 TB upgrade) Not programmatically, no. There are a couple of manual methods, but none of them is for the neophyte.


Hypothetically, if I wanted to dive in & educate myself, is this documented anywhere convenient? Would I have to go back in time to my days of command-line UNIX? It would be great to access all 1.5 TB of the Seagate, but if it's too complicated I may settle for 1.26 TB.


----------



## bkdtv

delgadobb said:


> Hypothetically, if I wanted to dive in & educate myself, is this documented anywhere convenient? Would I have to go back in time to my days of command-line UNIX? It would be great to access all 1.5 TB of the Seagate, but if it's too complicated I may settle for 1.26 TB.


Using more than 1.26TB requires that you replace a ROM chip soldiered onto the motherboard.

It's not a matter of simply running some command in Unix.


----------



## delgadobb

bkdtv said:


> Using more than 1.26TB requires that you replace a ROM chip soldiered onto the motherboard.
> 
> It's not a matter of simply running some command in Unix.


Ah, OK, a little more than I was hoping.

Does this mean the people I've heard talking about using a Tivo HD XL image as a basis for upgrading their HD are in dreamland? (i.e. Use the HD XL image to backup/restore with, say, a 1.5 TB or 2.0 TB drive on a Tivo HD)

Thanks for the reply, we'll be sticking with Plan 'A'. 1.26TB it is.


----------



## bkdtv

delgadobb said:


> Does this mean the people I've heard talking about using a Tivo HD XL image as a basis for upgrading their HD are in dreamland? (i.e. Use the HD XL image to backup/restore with, say, a 1.5 TB or 2.0 TB drive on a Tivo HD)


You only need a PROM mod if you want to expand a specific TiVo image by more than 1.1TB (1.0TiB).

You don't need a PROM mod to run a TivoHD XL image on a TivoHD. That's the easiest way to support up to 2.1TB internal on a TivoHD. The TivoHD XL image is already setup for 1.0TB and you can expand that by 1.1TB with WinMFS.

Someone else said that a TiVo will not download and install software updates if you use a TivoHD XL image on a TivoHD. I do not know whether that is true. If someone else knows, please post.


----------



## delgadobb

bkdtv said:


> You only need a PROM mod if you want to expand a specific TiVo image by more than 1.1TB (1.0TiB).
> 
> You don't need a PROM mod to run a TivoHD XL image on a TivoHD. That's the easiest way to support up to 2.1TB internal on a TivoHD. The TivoHD XL image is already setup for 1.0TB and you can expand that by 1.1TB with WinMFS.
> 
> Someone else said that a TiVo will not download and install software updates if you use a TivoHD XL image on a TivoHD. I do not know whether that is true. If someone else knows, please post.


Seeing as I have several Tivo HDs to upgrade, I'd be happy to be the guinea pig if I can find a TivoHD XL image. I can report back here & hopefully give something back to the group. Any suggestions for where to go for this? "Buy a Tivo HD XL" is not an acceptable answer  , as I already have the Tivo HDs.

I'll go peek in the MFSLive forums & see what I can find in the meantime.

Thanks again.


----------



## lrhorer

delgadobb said:


> Thanks for the heads-up - at any rate, I'll probably stick to single-drive upgrades for simplicity's sake.


Absolutely. It's your nickel, after all. Indeed, two of my three subscribed Tivos only have one drive. I moved the primary drive to an external enclosure on my THD, in order to make drive access easier, but both it and the S3 in my living room only have one drive.



delgadobb said:


> Hypothetically, if I wanted to dive in & educate myself, is this documented anywhere convenient?


Not to my knowledge, but there are a couple of wikis out there covering TiVo upgrades. One of them might have the info. If not, someone on the "Other TiVo Forum" is likely to be able to help.



delgadobb said:


> Would I have to go back in time to my days of command-line UNIX?


Command line Linux is a given, at this point in time. Low-level tools for Windows are non-existent, and even Linux GUI utilities are far from sufficiently capable.



delgadobb said:


> It would be great to access all 1.5 TB of the Seagate, but if it's too complicated I may settle for 1.26 TB.


Spike, Jamie, et al are working on the issue. It hasn't seen much progress at this point. It's possible WinMFS may have a solution before too long, or if not perhaps MFS_Live. To a certain extent, the developers are waiting to see if TiVo fixes a small "bug". It's a 4 line fix which would allow partitions greater than 1T. Barring that the 3rd party tools will have to be fixed to allow them to handle more partitions properly.


----------



## lrhorer

bkdtv said:


> Using more than 1.26TB requires that you replace a ROM chip soldiered onto the motherboard.
> 
> It's not a matter of simply running some command in Unix.


That's true at the moment, because the sticking point right now is a small bug in the Linux kernel used by the S3 and the THD. It's a simple fix, but the user can only implement it on a hacked TiVo, because a custom kernel won't run on a stock Tivo. If Tivo updates the kernel, then they will also update the chain of trust, so the new kernel can run on a stock TiVo. Only Tivo knows how to update the chain of trust in the kernel.


----------



## alvinswim

Just wanted to let everyone know that the WD1001FALS works just fine in a S3


----------



## richsadams

alvinswim said:


> Just wanted to let everyone know that the WD1001FALS works just fine in a S3


Welcome to the forum and thanks for that. IIRC another member (Rocko?) is using one of these. I'm curious about the acoustics and temps though. The specs show seek mode to be as high as 33DbBA which is much louder than the WD GP drive's 24dBA or so. Reviews have also said that they run quite hot. Just wondering if you can let us know what TiVo reports the temperature to be under normal use.

TIA for the follow up.


----------



## alvinswim

richsadams said:


> Welcome to the forum and thanks for that. IIRC another member (Rocko?) is using one of these. I'm curious about the acoustics and temps though. The specs show seek mode to be as high as 33DbBA which is much louder than the WD GP drive's 24dBA or so. Reviews have also said that they run quite hot. Just wondering if you can let us know what TiVo reports the temperature to be under normal use.
> 
> TIA for the follow up.


Well I can't say too much about the noise that it makes, I live in downtown manhattan, so its always loud outside so I don't really notice any sound in my house unless its really loud heh, it does make the tivo vibrate a little more, but its negligible.

about the temp, the internal registers at 48C (Normal) I would expect the Drive to run a little warm and while I was cloning it from the EADS I had before (I got the FALS cause the EADS had soft-reboot issues) it was warmer.. but if i were to compare with the original 250Gb drive that came with the tivo, its definitely cooler, and quieter.

hope that helps


----------



## delgadobb

If it helps at all, my Hitachi 0A38016 1TB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache recently installed in my Tivo HD registers at 45C (Normal); what's considered a normal range of temps? 

Next will be the SAMSUNG Spinpoint F1 HD102UJ 1TB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache just ordered from NewEgg for $67.49 (!) after promo discount. I was going to post about it here, but they sold out almost immediately. Once I get the Spinpoint installed, I'll report on how well it seems to work as well as operating temps.


----------



## bkdtv

In an enclosed cabinet, my TivoHD reports 41-42C with the 1TB WD10EVCS.

Of course, temperature will vary depending on ambient room temperature and ventilation.


----------



## JimZipCode

This thread is awesome.

I just ordered the 1TB My DVR Expander from unistorage.com, for $172.19. It seems to be out of stock almost everywhere else, but they have it there.

unistorage.com/unistorage/index.cfm?fuseaction=shop.dspSpecs&part=3397482​
$15 shipping for 3-7 business day delivery.

Question: the Western Digital part # they list is 
WDG1S10000VN​That's not precisely the same part # as listed in the FAQ, it has that extra "V" at the second-to-last character. Is this going to work? Did I order the wrong thing?

Thanks,

Jim


----------



## tannett

Well, for those of you that followed my attempt to merge two drives that had been paired by the TiVo plug n play into one larger drive, I'm back to report that I wasn't able to make it happen.

I finally dumped about 30 hours of shows onto my computer, pulled the expander, let TiVo adjust to not having it and then used WinMFS to copy all my settings to the 1TB drive and then pulled the shows I wanted to save back onto it.

Everything went smooth after I gave up on saving everything and now both my Series 3 and THD are both running 1 TB WD10EVCS drives.


----------



## SC0TLANDF0REVER

bkdtv said:


> This FAQ describes the options and methods to increase the TiVo's storage capacity. The contents were compiled from member posts to this forum.
> 
> This FAQ is divided into four sections: (I) Summary of Expansion Options, (II) Introduction, (III) Officially Supported External Drives, (IV) Unsupported External Drives, and (V) Internal Drive Upgrades. This FAQ is a work in progress; if there is a question you feel should be added, or there is an answer that should be expanded or clarified, please post.


I have an idea to help navigate your excellent FAQ for this topic.
Would it be possible to add hyperlinks to each of the Topic Titles?

So if I need info on (V) Internal Drive Upgrades, I could click on the Title/Hyperlink in the first paragraph and be taken to the section below.


----------



## bkdtv

SC0TLANDF0REVER said:


> I have an idea to help navigate your excellent FAQ for this topic.
> Would it be possible to add hyperlinks to each of the Topic Titles?
> 
> So if I need info on (V) Internal Drive Upgrades, I could click on the Title/Hyperlink in the first paragraph and be taken to the section below.


Many have requested this. I use it on various other boards (example).

Unfortunately, forum administration at TCF has ignored multiple requests by myself and others to add this feature. At the moment, there is no way to link within a post at TCF. It's really unfortunate, because this is a great feature and it would take less than 15 minutes to add.

Please consider voicing your support for this feature here.


----------



## SC0TLANDF0REVER

bkdtv said:


> Please consider voicing your support for this feature here.


I added my support for this.


----------



## ctcraig

I've got the clicking sound of HD death going on with my S3. II was thinking of using MFSLive and a new dive to backup my dying HD and then replace ith with the new drive. I've got a 750gb external ESATA drive. What is the recommended internal replacement drive for this kind of situation.

Thanks so much!

Chuck


----------



## granpoh

Is there a similar thread as this one for Tivo series 2?


----------



## bkdtv

granpoh said:


> Is there a similar thread as this one for Tivo series 2?


No, but you can use the same backup and restore instructions. You may need a different screwdriver, and you'll need a EIDE->SATA adapter like this one to use a newer SATA drive in your Series2. Aside from that, the instructions are the same. You can use any drive up to 1TB.

The WinMFS program mentioned in the first post works with Series2 too.



ctcraig said:


> I've got the clicking sound of HD death going on with my S3. II was thinking of using MFSLive and a new dive to backup my dying HD and then replace ith with the new drive. I've got a 750gb external ESATA drive. What is the recommended internal replacement drive for this kind of situation.


Any of the drives recommended in the FAQ are fine. Just be aware that you (a) can't upgrade to a new drive until you unmarry the eSATA drive, and (b) the "plug and play" external drive expansion no longer works if you upgrade the internal drive.

I would recommend one of Western Digital or Seagate 1TB drives mentioned in the first post. If you really want something bigger, you might consider the 1.5TB Seagate ST31500541AS. This low-power, low-noise drive just began shipping, so it's too new to be included in the first post. Note only 1.35TB of the 1.5TB would be usable on your Series3 (1.26TB usable in TivoHD).


----------



## ctcraig

Is it possible to replace the drive using WinMFS with the same size drive and keep the external ESATA and existing Tivo data (CC Pairing, season passes and soon)

thanks
Chuck


bkdtv said:


> No, but you can use the same backup and restore instructions. You may need a different screwdriver, and you'll need a EIDE->SATA adapter like this one to use a newer SATA drive in your Series2. Aside from that, the instructions are the same. You can use any drive up to 1TB.
> 
> The WinMFS program mentioned in the first post works with Series2 too.
> 
> Any of the drives recommended in the FAQ are fine. Just be aware that you (a) can't upgrade to a new drive until you unmarry the eSATA drive, and (b) the "plug and play" external drive expansion no longer works if you upgrade the internal drive.
> 
> I would recommend one of Western Digital or Seagate 1TB drives mentioned in the first post. If you really want something bigger, you might consider the 1.5TB Seagate ST31500541AS. This low-power, low-noise drive just began shipping, so it's too new to be included in the first post. Note only 1.35TB of the 1.5TB would be usable on your Series3 (1.26TB usable in TivoHD).


----------



## 1283

ctcraig said:


> Is it possible to replace the drive using WinMFS with the same size drive and keep the external ESATA and existing Tivo data (CC Pairing, season passes and soon)
> 
> thanks
> Chuck


Boot up with a Linux CD and use "dd" to make an exact copy of the internal drive. However, since your drive is already clicking, preserving the data may be very difficult.


----------



## joelkfla

Early Series 3 with original drive: 

I have a replacement 1TB internal drive and 2 USB-SATA adaptor kits on the way, after my MyDVRExpander failed, and now increasing pixellation on the factory internal drive.

Question, please: Will deleting some shows speed up the WinMFS copy? And if so, do I need to permanently delete them a day early (i.e., does TiVo need time to run some cleanup routines?) Or does WinMFS copy every block regardless?

Thanks,
joelk


----------



## ctcraig

Thanks, I'll run with it

Chuck



c3 said:


> Boot up with a Linux CD and use "dd" to make an exact copy of the internal drive. However, since your drive is already clicking, preserving the data may be very difficult.


----------



## Karmavore

Just a note here that the FAQ might need an update on drive selection.

I've successfully installed a WD15EADS 1.5TB drive in my early-model S3 and I am NOT experiencing the soft reboot issue. It works great! And I'm not the only one.

See http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=426305 if you'd like to follow up with me on this.


----------



## Wetsprocket625

About a month ago I upgraded my TivoHD with a WD6400AAKS. 640 gig Caviar Blue. After fighting freezes, lockups, reboots and the like went back to the original drive. 

Is there any good diagnostics or low level format I could run that might let me know if this drive is any good or better prepare it for going back into the DVR? Or should I just throw it into an external enclosure and get a Caviar Black at some point to upgrade my Tivo again?


----------



## peterado

I noticed that the latest version -- V2.13 removed acoustic management

hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm

Features in Version 2.13

* Removed the function of acoustic management.

Google tells me V2.11 is readily available.

I wonder why? More patent issues?


----------



## bkdtv

Karmavore said:


> Just a note here that the FAQ might need an update on drive selection.
> 
> I've successfully installed a WD15EADS 1.5TB drive in my early-model S3 and I am NOT experiencing the soft reboot issue. It works great! And I'm not the only one.


Others have tried and experienced the "soft reboot" with the WD15EADS on the TiVo Series3. It sounds like the WD15EADS is similar to the WD10EADS, where some revisions work and others do not.

It's difficult to recommend a model when only some revisions work [without the soft reboot issue] and there is no way to guarantee what revision you get when you place an order.


----------



## bkdtv

Wetsprocket625 said:


> About a month ago I upgraded my TivoHD with a WD6400AAKS. 640 gig Caviar Blue. After fighting freezes, lockups, reboots and the like went back to the original drive.
> 
> Is there any good diagnostics or low level format I could run that might let me know if this drive is any good or better prepare it for going back into the DVR?


You can try the Western Digital Data Lifeguard Diagnostic, although this program will not always find errors that are present. Generally, it won't find errors unless your drive is in really bad shape.



Wetsprocket625 said:


> Or should I just throw it into an external enclosure and get a Caviar Black at some point to upgrade my Tivo again?


Some desktop drives will overheat, or cause the TiVo to overheat, therefore causing instability.

I would suggest you stick with the drives recommended in Section V of the first post. These drives are known to work in the TiVo without issue.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

According to Section 11 in the FAQ, the *WD10EVCS* is factory configured for low noise out of the box.

1) Does this mean that AAM is set to a value of 128 on this drive?
2) Will the AAM utility allow me to check the value without changing it?

I also noticed that the latest version of the Hitachi Feature Tool Disk has removed support for adjusting the AAM setting. Does anyone know why this is?

Thanks


----------



## RWitkowski

bkdtv said:


> _Disclaimer: TiVo had no involvement with this FAQ._
> 
> The most popular drives for a 1TB internal upgrade are the (link removed)Western Digital WD10EVCS and WD10EVVS (PDF). Both of these drives are specifically marketed for DVRs and come preconfigured for quiet operation out-of-the-box.


This link takes you to the WD site But is lists the WD10evds, and not the WD 10evcs.
It looks to me that it is a newer drive with a larger buffer (32mb).
Anyone use this drive yet?


----------



## JimZipCode

JimZipCode said:


> I just ordered the 1TB My DVR Expander from unistorage.com, for $172.19. It seems to be out of stock almost everywhere else, but they have it there.


Correction.

A week later I called and asked them for an update on the status of my order. The customer service person put me on hold a few times  and then asked if she could call me back! She eventually did call me back, almost an hour and a half later; not on the phone number I asked her to use, but on the phone number associated with the order. And she told me the item was backordered.

That's especially annoying because I originally placed the order by phone, and the person taking the order assured me they were in stock. Oh well.


----------



## bkdtv

DCIFRTHS said:


> According to Section 11 in the FAQ, the *WD10EVCS* is factory configured for low noise out of the box.
> 
> 1) Does this mean that AAM is set to a value of 128 on this drive?


Yes, both the WD10EVCS and WD10EVVS come preconfigured with an AAM of 128. The same is true of all drives in the "WD AV-GP" line.



DCIFRTHS said:


> 2) Will the AAM utility allow me to check the value without changing it?


Yes, you can check it with v1.11 or earlier.



DCIFRTHS said:


> I also noticed that the latest version of the Hitachi Feature Tool Disk has removed support for adjusting the AAM setting. Does anyone know why this is?


The ability to adjust AAM was removed from the latest version of Hitachi Feature Tool, as you note. I updated the first post with direct links to the last version with AAM support.


----------



## bkdtv

RWitkowski said:


> This link takes you to the WD site But is lists the WD10evds, and not the WD 10evcs.
> It looks to me that it is a newer drive with a larger buffer (32mb).
> Anyone use this drive yet?


The WD10EVCS is no longer in production, although it is still widely available. The WD10EVVS is the same drive with 8MB cache, and it is still in production. You can see it listed here.

As you note, Western Digital also announced new 1TB (WD10EVDS) and 2TB (WD20EVDS) AV-GP drives with 32MB cache. This extra cache may be useful for other CE applications, but it does produce any noticeable benefit for a DVR like the TiVo. These drives are not yet available.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

bkdtv said:


> Yes, both the WD10EVCS and WD10EVVS come preconfigured with an AAM of 128. The same is true of all drives in the "WD AV-GP" line.


Thanks!



> Yes, you can check it with v1.11 or earlier.
> 
> The ability to adjust AAM was removed from the latest version of Hitachi Feature Tool, as you note. I updated the first post with direct links to the last version with AAM support.


While I realize that it's not necessary to check the setting, I wanted to experiment anyway... Unfortunately, I wasn't able to check the AAM setting because I am using a laptop, and I can't get the utility to work with the SATA to USB adapter. Any ideas as to how I can get the Hitachi software to work in my situation? I currently don't have access to a desktop PC.


----------



## jlib

DCIFRTHS said:


> ...Unfortunately, I wasn't able to check the AAM setting because I am using a laptop, and I can't get the utility to work with the SATA to USB adapter. Any ideas as to how I can get the Hitachi software to work in my situation? I currently don't have access to a desktop PC.


The utility uses an old DOS style operating system. USB is middle 90s technology that ancient DOS does not understand natively. There were some experimental attempts to add USB support after the fact. If you wanted, you could get one of those versions of DOS, boot with that disk, then put the Hitachi Feature Tool disk in and run the utility and see if it works. Alternately, you could get any live (self-bootable) Linux disk such as Knoppix Live or MFS Live, boot up, and run the hdparm command.


----------



## jlib

Wetsprocket625 said:


> ...Is there any good diagnostics or low level format I could run that might let me know if this drive is any good or better prepare it for going back into the DVR? Or should I just throw it into an external enclosure and get a Caviar Black at some point to upgrade my Tivo again?


Caviar Black is too hot, too noisy and too expensive. Stick with the recommended ones from the first FAQ post.


----------



## jlib

JimZipCode said:


> ...A week later I called and asked them for an update on the status of my order. The customer service person put me on hold a few times  and then asked if she could call me back! She eventually did call me back, almost an hour and a half later; not on the phone number I asked her to use, but on the phone number associated with the order. And she told me the item was backordered.
> 
> That's especially annoying because I originally placed the order by phone, and the person taking the order assured me they were in stock. Oh well.


It looks like you are lucky they even answered the phone. :down:


----------



## goldenmonkey

So I was following the steps for the drive upgrade, and after i connected the two drives, windows wasn't recognizing them, so instead of just going into WinMFS like I should have, my dumbass went into diskmgmt.svc and initialized the drives!

I did NOT format either drive, and I did not even assign the TiVo drive a drive letter or anything. But I did right click and hit 'initalize'. Now winMFS says it is not a TiVo drive. I'm not sure if it's possible to get my information off of it either, as I'm afriad to mount the drive for fear it'll force me to format it, or worse...

I have not tried the drive back in the tivo, yet i assume it will not work.

Any advice?!


----------



## bkdtv

goldenmonkey said:


> So I was following the steps for the drive upgrade, and after i connected the two drives, windows wasn't recognizing them, so instead of just going into WinMFS like I should have, my dumbass went into diskmgmt.svc and initialized the drives!


Old habits die hard, I suppose? I updated the first post with a warning, so others follow the instructions as written.



goldenmonkey said:


> I did NOT format either drive, and I did not even assign the TiVo drive a drive letter or anything. But I did right click and hit 'initalize'. Now winMFS says it is not a TiVo drive. I'm not sure if it's possible to get my information off of it either, as I'm afriad to mount the drive for fear it'll force me to format it, or worse...


These are Linux drives so you never want to initialize them in Disk Administrator, as that will destroy the Linux bootpage.

You still may still able to fix the TiVo drive with WinMFS. Connect only the TiVo drive and run WinMFS administrator. Ub WinMFS, select the drive and then select Tools -> Fix Bootpage -> Option 1. If that doesn't work, try Fix Bootpage -> Option 2. If neither option allows WinMFS to recognize the drive as a TiVo drive, then you'll need to obtain another copy of the TiVo software, or use DVRUpgrade's InstantCake Restore CD).


----------



## goldenmonkey

bkdtv said:


> Old habits die hard, I suppose? I updated the first post with a warning, so others follow the instructions as written.
> 
> These are Linux drives so you never want to initialize them in Disk Administrator, as that will destroy the Linux bootpage.
> 
> You still may still able to fix the TiVo drive with WinMFS. Connect only the TiVo drive and run WinMFS administrator. Ub WinMFS, select the drive and then select Tools -> Fix Bootpage -> Option 1. If that doesn't work, try Fix Bootpage -> Option 2. If neither option allows WinMFS to recognize the drive as a TiVo drive, then you'll need to obtain another copy of the TiVo software, or use DVRUpgrade's InstantCake Restore CD).


that worked! i had posted this in the upgrade forum too (wasn't sure which was more appropriate) and got the answer.

the option 1 worked just fine, i was THIS close to buying instantcake restore too.

and yeah, even though i knew to follow the instructions as written, when i saw the drive not recognized i thought "i need to fix that" and tried to take matters in my own hand. the second i clicked initialize i thought "crap... i bet winMFS would have been able to recognize it, i probably shouldn't have done that"

glad i didn't go any further.


----------



## andy_hd

jlib said:


> Alternately, you could get any live (self-bootable) Linux disk such as Knoppix Live or MFS Live, boot up, and run the hdparm command.


This won't work. The 'hdparm' command doesn't work over a USB-> SATA adapter. If anyone does know of a good way to quiet a SATA drive without a SATA connection in their computer, I'd like to hear it.


----------



## jlib

andy_hd said:


> This won't work. The 'hdparm' command doesn't work over a USB-> SATA adapter.


I stand corrected then. My comment was based on this post but now upon rereading, it is not clear if the poster was using a USB enclosure or a USB->SATA adapter as I had assumed to access the drive. Without further corroboration from other USB->SATA users, I withdraw my comment.


----------



## DixonAgee

I was browsing the Western Digital website and found a link to a Product Overview .pdf brochure for the AV-GP drives. In the brochure it lists a WD15EADS 1.5TB drive. The brochure is dated May 2009. Is such a drive available? The link is on the westerndigital.com with the additional path of /en/library/ce/2879-701250.pdf (Sorry, I don't have enough posts to show full URL by itself). It seems that it might be useful for some upgrades were the limit is 1.35 GB ... but is the drive actually available?

I'm thinking of putting an internal drive upgrade in my Series 3.

- DixonAgee


----------



## richsadams

Welcome to the forum...and the Internet? Google's search engine is a wonderful invention. So is the one on the forum! 

WD WD15EADS for about $135.

You should be aware however that others that have had mixed experiences with that drive in the Series3. Some have experienced a soft reboot issue (wherein TiVo will not reboot via a menu restart or automatically after a software upgrade). So it is not a recommended drive for the Series3.

A list of recommended hard drives can be found in the first post of this thread.

Happy upgrading! :up:


----------



## newskilz

DixonAgee said:


> I was browsing the Western Digital website and found a link to a Product Overview .pdf brochure for the AV-GP drives. In the brochure it lists a WD15EADS 1.5TB drive. The brochure is dated May 2009. Is such a drive available? The link is on the westerndigital.com with the additional path of /en/library/ce/2879-701250.pdf (Sorry, I don't have enough posts to show full URL by itself). It seems that it might be useful for some upgrades were the limit is 1.35 GB ... but is the drive actually available?
> 
> I'm thinking of putting an internal drive upgrade in my Series 3.
> 
> - DixonAgee


To answer your question about drive availability: 
Google Results for WD15EADS

Looks Like I was beat to it.  At least I can vouch for Newegg, I've ordered from them multiple times with no problems. Very reputable online retailer in my opinion.


----------



## bkdtv

DixonAgee said:


> I was browsing the Western Digital website and found a link to a Product Overview .pdf brochure for the AV-GP drives. In the brochure it lists a WD15EADS 1.5TB drive. The brochure is dated May 2009. Is such a drive available? The link is on the westerndigital.com with the additional path of /en/library/ce/2879-701250.pdf (Sorry, I don't have enough posts to show full URL by itself). It seems that it might be useful for some upgrades were the limit is 1.35 GB ... but is the drive actually available?


As noted above, the WD15EADS isn't listed in the first post because some revisions of that drive are reportedly incompatible with the older TiVo Series3 DVR. Some revisions of the EADS line exhibit the "soft reboot" issue when installed in a Series3; this means that the TiVo will not boot correctly after a software update or a restart through the menus; with these drives installed, the TiVo will only reboot correctly after you pull the plug. There's no way to guarantee that you get a compatible revision of an EADS drive when you buy one.

You can take your chances on the WD15EADS and hope you get a compatible revision. Another option would be the just-released Seagate ST31500541AS. Or you could just pick one of the drives in the first post which are known to work reliably in both the TivoHD and TiVo Series3.


----------



## Onions2009

c3 said:


> Boot up with a Linux CD and use "dd" to make an exact copy of the internal drive. However, since your drive is already clicking, preserving the data may be very difficult.


Do you have any tips on how to preserve it? iknow you said it may be difficult!


----------



## DixonAgee

Thanks to all who responded about the WD15EADS. I'll take your advice to heart.

Regards

DixonAgee


----------



## 1283

Onions2009 said:


> Do you have any tips on how to preserve it? iknow you said it may be difficult!


A clicking hard drive means it's in a very bad shape, worse than just having a few bad sectors. If the problem is localized in some non-critical sectors, dd may still work if it can continue after the bad sectors. dd_rescue may help with the copying speed.

I have heard people trying to recover the data by freezing the drive first or running the drive in a refrigerator. No personal experience.


----------



## jlib

c3 said:


> I have heard people trying to recover the data by freezing the drive first or running the drive in a refrigerator. No personal experience.


I had always thought those stories were merely apocryphal. Five years ago I had a 250GB drive filled with MP3 files not backed up. The drive failed and even Spinrite was no help in getting through the click of death.

In desperation I tried the freeze technique. Freezing the drive for an hour gave me about 10 minutes of use to allow copying data off before failure again. I repeated this multiple times (I seem to remember losing an entire Saturday to the project) and I still have all the data (in redundant form this time around).

Sometime later I proudly boasted to a chef friend that I could recover his unbacked up recipe collection from a drive with similar symptoms. That time I had no success whatsoever and, to my embarrassment, had to humbly return unrescued drive. Sometimes the magic works and sometimes it doesn't.


----------



## husky55

I know that WD drive has been the preferred drive for Tivo. I own one myself. But look at this:

$69.99 after coupon EMCLTMM28

LINKY [newegg.com]

Model
Brand SAMSUNG
Series EcoGreen F2
Model HD103SI
Performance
Interface SATA 3.0Gb/s
Capacity 1TB
RPM 5400 RPM
Cache 32MB
Average Seek Time 8.9ms
Average Latency 5.52ms
Physical Spec
Form Factor 3.5"

It is rumored that this drive sports 2 platters of 500GB per platter.

Wonder if anybody tried this with Tivo.


----------



## jlib

husky55 said:


> Model
> Brand SAMSUNG
> Series EcoGreen F2
> Model HD103SI
> ...
> Wonder if anybody tried this with Tivo.


There were mixed results with the Spinpoint F1 predecessor drive. I don't remember anyone reporting on this new one yet. It certainly has the right kind of specs and that is the kind of price that TiVo upgraders have been waiting years for. For that price it is worth risking being a pioneer.


----------



## Joe3

c3 said:


> A...
> I have heard people trying to recover the data by freezing the drive first or running the drive in a refrigerator. No personal experience.


Strange

A little awkward to admit this but my external 750 went bonker clicking last week and gave the blue screen of can't find external drive and would I like to disconnect it. I resisted the temptation for days as I continued every hard reboot I could think of. I finally order the Seagate ST31500541AS, but as I was mourning the loss of about 1TB while driving on the road in my car I remembered the old frantic when all else fails run to your freezer and throw your high tech in option.

However, when I reconnected the hard drive when it looked like a frosty draft from the tap it didn't work. It was only when the water beads appeared that it finally came back to life. It gave me about 120 hrs to back up the TiVo using kmttg - TTG program for 1 step download, decrypt,and encode and did it painstakingly in real time.

They still haven't shipped the Seagate ST31500541AS, but the external drive isn't clicking and evidently doesn't want go back in the cold.

Just goes to show a frozen TiVo isn't all bad.


----------



## richsadams

husky55 said:


> I know that WD drive has been the preferred drive for Tivo. I own one myself. But look at this:
> 
> $69.99 after coupon EMCLTMM28 LINKY [newegg.com] <snip>


Nice find. :up: I just ordered one - $69.99 w/coupon code incl. shipping - saahweet! I think back to the first WD 1TB a bunch of us bought for $259 from BB a couple of years ago...and we thought we really scored.  And hey, I'm always up for a challenge!

I was looking for a good backup drive. So I'll go ahead and image this new Sammy and pop it into my TiVo HD, pull the WD10EVCS and use it for a backup drive for one of my Mac's if it works. I know the Spinpoints were problematic in TiVo's for some folks (soft reboot issue or just flaky IIRC) so if it doesn't work in the TiVo HD I'll just slip the WD back in and use the Sammy for a backup. Win-win! 

I'm mucho busy the next couple of weeks but I'll post back ASAP.


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## lynnalexandra

I've been reading through this post - but still need to doublecheck things to be sure. I have a TivoHD (TCD652160) and want to upgrade it. From the first page, it looks like I can replace the hard drive with a 1TB (or even a 1.5TB) hard drive. I would like to maximize the storage space of this unit. At least one ebay seller told me I could put in a 2GB hard drive - but from what I see here, that isn't true. This is why I want to check and doublecheck.

I was going to be getting a 1TB dvr expander for my birthday in a few days. Is there a way to change the hard drive and use the expander - for a total of 2TB of storage? If so, I have some vague idea that I have to do it at the same time. Is that right? If I replace the hard drive first, is it too late to add the expander later? If I swap the hard drive, can I use the dvr expander or would I have to use a non-tivo-endorsed external hard drive?

Can I use a 1/5 TB hard drive (rendering me with a useable 1.2 TB or storage) and also add an external 1TB drive?

Rich - you mentioned in my other thread that there was a Western Digital drive going for around $99. But does this have to be somehow prepared for use in the Tivo? I don't know if I can handle that. I bought a 500GB hard drive and replaced the one in my Tivo2 - but I believe that hard drive was already some prepared for a Tivo. All I did was unplug the original drive and plug in this one. 

I'm a bit disheartened that a seller (who sold me the great 500GB drive for my Tivo2) would tell me I can put a 2TB drive in the TivoHD (TCD652160) if that is incorrect. And the seller and I were very specific about this being the model I had.

Thanks.
Lynn.

PS if I can change internal hard drive and add external drive, can someone tell me where to get specific instructions on how to do this - in what order - bc. I'm under the impression that it has to be done simultaneously or it won't work.


----------



## jlib

husky55 said:


> ...It is rumored that this drive sports 2 platters of 500GB per platter.


Not really a rumor it is just that people were thinking it was going to be vaporware as the F1 (1/3 TB platters) was for so long. The fact that they are actually shipping only six months after announcing is great news.


----------



## jlib

lynnalexandra said:


> ...there was a Western Digital drive going for around $99. But does this have to be somehow prepared for use in the Tivo? I don't know if I can handle that.


I'll let those who have actually done the double upgrade comment on the details. I only want to urge you to not do the external upgrade by itself if you imagine you will ultimately want to upgrade the internal one also. Do the internal upgrade first or simultaneously with the external one.

Secondly, if you have access to a modern PC and have no aversion to opening it up to, for example, replace a drive or memory then you can definitely handle the upgrade process with the software tools that are available these days.


----------



## Buddy-series3

OK, bought the 1TB WD drive recommended for internal replacement, bought the Torx drivers, now to make change. Recommened is to buy a SATA to USB cable from New Egg to hook up to the 'puter. I can do this but .... since I have an eSATA connection on my laptop and have an eSATA cable from my external WD I am no longer going to use, CAN I DOWNLOAD/SWAPOUT/do the WinMFS thing with this connection instead of the SATA to USB? This will save time and a few bucks.


----------



## joepapeo

following the instructions to upgrade. i am going from a WD 1TB drive (wrong model) to the proper 1TB WD drive.

my estimated time remaining after running msfcopy for 30 minutes is 3 hours. is this normal?


----------



## jlib

Buddy-series3 said:


> ...since I have an eSATA connection on my laptop and have an eSATA cable from my external WD I am no longer going to use, CAN I DOWNLOAD/SWAPOUT/do the WinMFS thing with this connection instead of the SATA to USB? This will save time and a few bucks.


Yes, you can put the bare drive in the enclosure which is SATA internally. Then connect the enclosure to laptop via eSATA cable. When finished with the upgrade just remove drive and install it in the TiVo.


----------



## lynnalexandra

jlib - thanks for the admonition to not add the external drive until I upgrade the internal (which I definitely want to do). (Now I still need to find out the order of internal hard drive swap and adding external drive - and whether it matters if it's the dvr expander or not?). I have never opened up a computer to change the drive, memory or anything. My only experience with anything close to this was to open up my Tivo 2 and change the hard drive to one that was already prepared. All I had to do was open the box - unscrew the hard drive - disconnect the grey ribbon and power cord - then reconnect with the new drive. No software issues - no programming - no connecting to my pc for anything. So attempting to program my own hard drive - if it involves opening my computer and running software - still seems over my head. Just reading through some of these posts, the language is intimidating "WinMFS", "MSFcopy" "Making an image of the drive" - and I wouldn't know what was what if I opened up my computer. If the difference in price is under $50, I think I'd rather have someone do it who knows what they're doing - provide support if needed, stands behind the product/work. 

That being said, I have wondered whether I might some day get the courage to install a firewire port in my Dell (which has a slot for one, but wasn't an option I chose 17 months ago - bc. I didn't even understand what it was or why I'd want one) - and considered adding a second internal hard drive (if - and only if- I found really really simple instructions and a forum to walk me through any problems. Do you think such an inexperienced person should attempt this?

Thanks.
Lynn.


----------



## bkdtv

Lynn,

Did you see the instructions in section V of the first post? Follow those instructions and you can't go wrong.

If you aren't comfortable opening your computer, and your computer doesn't have external SATA or eSATA ports, you can always use a USB -> eSATA adapter.


----------



## richsadams

lynnalexandra said:


> Rich - you mentioned in my other thread that there was a Western Digital drive going for around $99. But does this have to be somehow prepared for use in the Tivo? I don't know if I can handle that. I bought a 500GB hard drive and replaced the one in my Tivo2 - but I believe that hard drive was already some prepared for a Tivo. All I did was unplug the original drive and plug in this one.


Hi Lynn. Yes, you'll need to use your original hard drive to "image" (or create a copy of your original hard drive's information) on your new hard drive. Think of it like this: you have a file on your computer. You want to use that file on another computer. What to do? You can make a copy of the file and transfer it to the other computer. It's the same here. What you're going to do is copy your TiVo's operating system or "image" (using the original hard drive) to a PC. Then you're going to copy that data onto your new, larger hard drive. All of that will be done using a pretty simple free Windows program called winMFS. There are a few more steps to it than that but it's really just a glorified copy and paste procedure that sounds much more scary than it really is. Once that is done everything will work just the same as it does now, only there will be a lot more room for recordings.

Now that said, if you really think you need more than 1TB of space for recordings you can add or "marry" an external/eSATA hard drive to the new internal hard drive during the this same process. It doesn't matter if the eSATA drive is one of the "approved" Western Digital My DVR Expanders or another one of the recommended eSATA hard drives listed on the first post. If that's what you want to do it's a little more complicated than just upgrading the internal hard drive, but again if you follow the directions it works fine. You'd need to read and follow the directions in Section IV, #11 of the first post on this thread.

All of that said, you could indeed buy a pre-imaged drive from a company like DVRUpgrade.com and just install the drive in your TiVo, however the cost will be more than $50 above a DIY upgrade. Plus if you still want to use an external hard drive you'll have to "marry" it to the new hard drive using winMFS so you're sort of back to square one. In addition you will need to set TiVo up again as if it was brand new (have your cable company re-pair your cable cards, etc.).

It sounds like you've given this a lot of thought and if you replaced a hard drive in a Series2 I don't see any reason you couldn't do the same with your TiVo HD. Perhaps you have a "geeky" sort of friend that can help? The process can be intimidating at first and having someone that knows a little bit about computers to hold your hand couldn't hurt...but no one needs to be a computer genius to do this.

I guess my first question would be this: do you really need 2TB's of recording space? That is an awful lot of space and the only reason most people want that much space is to archive recordings. If that's the case, another option is to upgrade to a 1TB drive and move any recordings (that aren't copy protected) you'd really like to keep to a computer via TiVo Desktop, PyTiVo, etc. Then you can keep them there, on a backup drive, burn them to a DVD or even transfer them back to your TiVo at a later date.

Me? My wife and I have tons of recordings and we keep some but a 1TB hard drive has been more than enough for us. We have hours and hours of recordings we still haven't watched...maybe never will. But we've never gotten to the point of saying "gee, I wish we had twice as much space". Another plus for me is one less fail point. When you have an external drive, recordings are spread across both drives. If either drive fails, all of your recordings are lost. Just something to consider.

My recommendation for a "first timer" would be to simply upgrade the internal hard drive on your TiVo HD to 1TB using the recommended Western Digital WD10EVCS or WD10EVVS (links to retailers and pricing are on the first post on this thread) using winMFS as outlined in Section V, #18. That'll give you 157 HD and 1367 SD hours of recording space. It's also the easiest of all of the DIY ways to upgrade your TiVo. If at a later time you want to add an external drive you can still do that (Section V, #10).

In any case, give the first post a good going over and if you still have questions, don't hesitate to ask.

Happy upgrading!

P.S. Adding a firewire port to your Dell is a cakewalk. It's just a matter of buying a PCI Firewire card, opening your computer up and plugging it into an available PCI slot. If you look at the back of your computer where your monitor, Ethernet cable, speakers, etc. plug in, the port would end up right there with the rest. In fact if you Google "PCI Firewire Card" the very first link is to some Firewire cards for sale on the Dell web site. This web site has pictures of the card, installation, etc.:

http://www.usbgear.com/firewire_800_pci_card-new/index.html

Be brave, live dangerous!


----------



## richsadams

joepapeo said:


> following the instructions to upgrade. i am going from a WD 1TB drive (wrong model) to the proper 1TB WD drive.
> 
> my estimated time remaining after running msfcopy for 30 minutes is 3 hours. is this normal?


If you're copying all of your recordings as well, yes 3+ hours is not unusual...depending on how many recordings you have of course.


----------



## suresha

that price looks nice, but i still prefer wd over samsung :up:


----------



## Joe Siegler

Hey, I've got a question about this thread..

It all seems to be about "Open your TiVo and replace the drive". Is there a thread about the MyDVR expander specifically that doesn't involve opening the box? I wanted to ask a few questions about the MyDVR Expander, but I don't want to be lost in a sea of posts regarding "Dude, just replace your hard drive".


----------



## richsadams

Joe Siegler said:


> Hey, I've got a question about this thread..
> 
> It all seems to be about "Open your TiVo and replace the drive". Is there a thread about the MyDVR expander specifically that doesn't involve opening the box? I wanted to ask a few questions about the MyDVR Expander, but I don't want to be lost in a sea of posts regarding "Dude, just replace your hard drive".


Sure, info about adding an eSATA drive is how this thread originally got started. Most everything about that is covered in Sections I - III of the first post of this thread; but if after reading that you still have questions...don't hesitate to ask!


----------



## RobOnLI

That 1gb Samsung drive is out of stock at Newegg. Bummer!

Does anyone else have good deals/ideas for internal drive replacement? My Tivo Series 3 HD has crapped out and I'd like to get a new 1tb drive ordered quickly.

I see Amazon has the Western Digital VVS-model for $102. Are weill still supposed to avoid the OEM Caviar (WD10EADS) model?

Thanks,
Rob


----------



## ccrider2

Please excuse my post here. For some reason I quit getting email notices....just trying to Jump-start them.


----------



## richsadams

RobOnLI said:


> That 1gb Samsung drive is out of stock at Newegg. Bummer!
> 
> Does anyone else have good deals/ideas for internal drive replacement? My Tivo HD has crapped out and I'd like to get a new 1tb drive ordered quickly.
> 
> I see Amazon has the Western Digital VVS-model for $102. Are weill still supposed to avoid the OEM Caviar (WD10EADS) model?
> 
> Thanks,
> Rob


You're safe using the WD10EADS in your TiVo HD (they should NOT be used as an internal upgrade in TiVo Series3's).

ZipZoomfly.com offers the OEM WD10EADS, for $94.99 with free shipping. Coupon code "ZZFCDNO" cuts it to $89.99. Plus, this $15 mail-in rebate chops it to $74.99.

$74.99 after rebate. (Don't forget to use the coupon!)


----------



## richsadams

ccrider2 said:


> Please excuse my post here. For some reason I quit getting email notices....just trying to Jump-start them.


You only have to log into the forum once and they should start again. No need to post on each thread. Check your thread subscriptions in your user control panel to be sure the one's you want are listed.


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## drhicking

Just wanted to thank TiVo Community for this thread - upgraded my TiVo HD to the 1gb EVVS Western Digital drive, WinMFS worked flawlessly (and surprisingly fast)!


----------



## lynnalexandra

So I've been reading and reading. First, Rich, I want to say that I could probably quickly use 2 TB's of space. I only had my Tivo2 and Tivo HD up and running and recording since January. Before I realized the space limitations, it started deleting recordings I wanted of In Treatment and American Idol. (Now I know how to set it to save until I delete.) But I still ran out of space quickly, so I was transferring recordings to my PC (with over 350GB available space). That filled within a month and my Tivo's were filled to capacity and no place to keep more. So I got VideoReDo and started burning to DVD to make room. 

I do keep some movies - for whatever time I might actually get around to watching. And I do want to archive some television series. So I think I could easily fill 2TB on the Tivo HD and the 500GB on the Tivo2 - and still be burning some to DVD to save.

I read the earlier sections you recommended. I want to doublecheck. I think I'm up for preparing my own new 1 TB hard drive using my Tivo's original drive and hooking up to the computer. I gather I'll have to open my computer and get some sort of cable. Now I will want that additional external hard drive. I can do it all at the same time. If I keep the copy I made on my computer when preparing the internal drive replacement, can I later use that to prepare the external drive? Or do I somehow have to get the upgraded internal drive and external drive synced at the same time.

If I do the internal first, will I have to remove it to prepare the external later?
Is there any reason not to use the 1TB dvr expander as the external drive - and "marry it" to the upgraded internal drive? Is the only reason folks don't do that the cost? This 1TB dvr expander cost $169 on amazon (no shipping, no tax). By the time I buy another 1TB drive, the box it goes in and any cable I need, it's getting pretty close to the same amount of money, isn't it? But perhaps this DVR expander doesn't save me any time or trouble if I still have to dissemble to marry it to the new upgraded internal drive. Is it harder than putting an external one together myself? (the complicating factor is that my mother has gotten me this DVR expander for my birthday coming up - I'd rather not have to reject the gift and return it if it's not of great time or financial benefit. She'll kind of understand - it won't be deeply upsetting but it makes it still a little less from her if the item she purchased through amazon is returned and I make the raw part purchase myself.)

Thanks.
Lynn. 

drhicking - glad to hear it went smoothly for you. Do you have computer/tivo experience or are you a newbie to all this?


----------



## RobOnLI

richsadams said:


> You're safe using the WD10EADS in your TiVo HD (they should NOT be used as an internal upgrade in TiVo Series3's).
> 
> ZipZoomfly.com offers the OEM WD10EADS, for $94.99 with free shipping. Coupon code "ZZFCDNO" cuts it to $89.99. Plus, this $15 mail-in rebate[/URL] chops it to $74.99.
> 
> . (Don't forget to use the coupon!)


Rich,
Thanks very much. I had to re-read my post three times to figure out why you suggested I use the OEM drive when I said my internal Tivo hard drive had died. I failed to mention it's my Tivo Series 3 that died. When I said "Tivo HD" in my original post I meant "hard drive", not the TivoHD box.

I'll check if I can use that coupon you posted with the VVS drive.

UGH - ZZF is also out of stock on the VVS drive.

PS - found the VVS drive at Wiredzone.com for $92.15 and free shipping.

Thanks,
Rob


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## ccrider2

richsadams said:


> You only have to log into the forum once and they should start again. No need to post on each thread. Check your thread subscriptions in your user control panel to be sure the one's you want are listed.


OK, didn't know that. Control Panel shows I'm subscribed. I hadn't gotten an email notice for over a week. Is there a cookie that a Adaware or SB S&D might have deleted? Seems it might have started after running them.

Thanks,


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## bareyb

ccrider2 said:


> OK, didn't know that. Control Panel shows I'm subscribed. I hadn't gotten an email notice for over a week. Is there a cookie that a Adaware or SB S&D might have deleted? Seems it might have started after running them.
> 
> Thanks,


This happens to me all the time if I don't visit this forum for awhile. I have a feeling there's something in the software that stops the auto emails if you haven't logged in for a specified period of time. Once I come back the emails come back. Same thing happens on the AVS forums. If for some reason I go back there, I start getting emails from old threads I am subscribed to that are still active.


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## lynnalexandra

I'd still like feedback from my post (4 posts earlier), but want to add something. I just went to dvrupgrade site. I wondered if it would be easier for me to just buy the instantcake cd and not have to get the information from my original Tivo hard drive. They suggest that diy's can do this "If you can connect a disk drive to your PC as a secondary IDE master, and can configure your PC to boot from CD-ROM on the primary slave, then you can do it yourself, and save money and time!" Well - I don't know how to connect a disk drive to my pc - and don't even know what it means "as a secondary IDE master". I don't know how to configure my PC to boot from cd-rom ont he primary slave - again, these are concepts I'm completely unfamiliar with.

So I have some interest in doing this myself - and appreciate Rich's encouragement - but the info on dvrupgrade site is scaring me off. They mention the possibility of damaging the existing pc - overriding data on it. I definitely don't want to mess up my computer - but I'm not sure I know enough to avoid doing harm. I checked back on this thread now bc. I was all ready to go and order the drives, encasements and cables I needed and wanted to confirm what to buy. But perhaps I'll wait until a couple of more people weight in before proceeding and getting myself in trouble.

Rich - I wish I had some nerdy friend who could help - hold my hand through this. The only person who'd be right for this job is my nephew (who's considering building his own linux machine) - I know he'd understand enough - but he's in California and I"m in Washington, DC. _*Any nerdy folks in this region that would like to befriend me for this project?*_


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## richsadams

bareyb said:


> This happens to me all the time if I don't visit this forum for awhile. I have a feeling there's something in the software that stops the auto emails if you haven't logged in for a specified period of time. Once I come back the emails come back. Same thing happens on the AVS forums. If for some reason I go back there, I start getting emails from old threads I am subscribed to that are still active.


Ditto. :up: Well, it happened to me once while I was overseas anyway. I posted a question about it over on the operations forum and was set straight by one of the moderators.


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## richsadams

lynnalexandra said:


> I'd still like feedback from my post (4 posts earlier), but want to add something. I just went to dvrupgrade site. I wondered if it would be easier for me to just buy the instantcake cd and not have to get the information from my original Tivo hard drive. They suggest that diy's can do this "If you can connect a disk drive to your PC as a secondary IDE master, and can configure your PC to boot from CD-ROM on the primary slave, then you can do it yourself, and save money and time!" Well - I don't know how to connect a disk drive to my pc - and don't even know what it means "as a secondary IDE master". I don't know how to configure my PC to boot from cd-rom ont he primary slave - again, these are concepts I'm completely unfamiliar with.
> 
> So I have some interest in doing this myself - and appreciate Rich's encouragement - but the info on dvrupgrade site is scaring me off. They mention the possibility of damaging the existing pc - overriding data on it. I definitely don't want to mess up my computer - but I'm not sure I know enough to avoid doing harm. I checked back on this thread now bc. I was all ready to go and order the drives, encasements and cables I needed and wanted to confirm what to buy. But perhaps I'll wait until a couple of more people weight in before proceeding and getting myself in trouble.
> 
> Rich - I wish I had some nerdy friend who could help - hold my hand through this. The only person who'd be right for this job is my nephew (who's considering building his own linux machine) - I know he'd understand enough - but he's in California and I"m in Washington, DC. _*Any nerdy folks in this region that would like to befriend me for this project?*_


You want more feedback than what I posted earlier?!  

The comment about the secondary IDE drive, etc. on the DVRUpgrade site is directed at Series1 and Series2 TiVo owners. Your TiVo HD has a SATA hard drive so those instructions don't apply. Also since you'd be booting from a CD they recommend that you disconnect your regular operating system's hard drive to avoid overwriting anything (not likely but could happen)...so as long as you do that there's nothing to worry about.

Quite frankly the more I hear the more I'd say at this point in time you should probably just buy a pre-imaged hard drive from DVRUpgrade or Weaknees and install it in your TiVo. It's basically the same thing that you once did with your Series2: open TiVo, disconnect the hard drive and connect the new one. It will be like a new TiVo so you'll have to get your cable cards provisioned or "re-paired" by your cable company, re-run Guided Setup, Season Passes, etc.

However if you're determined to have your TiVo HD have more than 1TB of recording space you (or someone you know and love or can bribe...or both) are going to have to connect the various new and old hard drives to a computer and follow the program/upgrade instructions on the first post of this thread. Absolutely everything you need to know is there. What you want to do is hack your TiVo. It's not condoned by TiVo and there aren't any easier alternatives.

Well, there is one...buy a TiVo HDXL and connect a 1TB WD My DVR Expander to it. All legal, full warranty, 2TB's, done.

Wish there were better news or something else to consider, but that's it. 

P.S. If you post once more (and I'm guessing you will  ), you'll be able to see and use all of the text links in the various posts. Woo hoo!


----------



## richsadams

drhicking said:


> Just wanted to thank TiVo Community for this thread - upgraded my TiVo HD to the 1gb EVVS Western Digital drive, WinMFS worked flawlessly (and surprisingly fast)!


Welcome to the club!


----------



## richsadams

RobOnLI said:


> PS - found the VVS drive at Wiredzone.com for $92.15 and free shipping.


Nice find. :up: I've never dealt with wiredzone.com. Let us know how their service is, etc...along with how your upgrade goes of course!

P.S. The "appropriate" acronym for a hard drive is "HDD" (hard disk drive), but I've done the very same thing as well. It gets confusing and my brain hurts sometimes.


----------



## jlib

lynnalexandra said:


> ...I wondered if it would be easier for me to just buy the instantcake cd and not have to get the information from my original Tivo hard drive....


Instant Cake is intended for situations where your original hardrive has catastrophically failed and you have no backup. It is just a way to get the TiVo system back on a new harddrive. It is not really any easier to use. It is just for a different purpose. You lose all current recordings and you have to have your cable cards reinstalled. I leave it to you to determine if cable card installation is a smooth operation with your particular cable company. It is always good to have that option to rescue a drive but that is not your situation. You should never need Instant Cake because you will have your original TiVo drive safely on a shelf with a backup of your system at the time of upgrade.

The reason we are encouraging you to go on is because it really is easy. OK, do this. Download and install the WinMFS sofware as linked in the first post. If you can get that far then you can continue. If you can't do that easily then it is time to look at alternatives. In the meantime, what is the make and exact model of your computer? I can tell you what additional things you might need in advance so that you don't have to run down to a computer store to get a power cable for your harddrive in the middle of your upgrade.


----------



## jfstx

my samsung hdd 103ui 1 tb just went to grey screen after a reboot. It won't come back up. I've pulled it and want to hook it up to my computer via the usb to sata cables to run some tests. but when I do I can't get my computer to recognize it. My comp. is less than a year old with vista 64. Could use some advise. thx


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## lynnalexandra

Rich- you're great - thanks. How could I not post again.  Now I can see links. Despite your sense that I might not be cut out for this diy, your last post actually encouraged me. Knowing that the things that scared me off from the dvrupgrade site don't apply if I just follow the steps here and transfer the image from my original hard drive to a new internal hard drive and external drive. I actually think I can understand those instructions just fine. One small question - is there any advantage in transferring via esata cable to the inside of the pc vs. using an esata to usb cable?

Okay - maybe a second small question. Will the esata enclosure come with instructions for enclosing the external hard drive - or is it written somewhere on these forums? 

The final clinchers for me to do this myself are that I will enjoy the accomplishment. And having to repair my cablecards and deal with comcast again is far more of a gamble than doing it myself and thereby preserving the pairing on my new copied drive.

Thanks.
Lynn.:


----------



## richsadams

lynnalexandra said:


> Rich- you're great - thanks. How could I not post again.  Now I can see links. Despite your sense that I might not be cut out for this diy, your last post actually encouraged me. Knowing that the things that scared me off from the dvrupgrade site don't apply if I just follow the steps here and transfer the image from my original hard drive to a new internal hard drive and external drive. I actually think I can understand those instructions just fine. One small question - is there any advantage in transferring via esata cable to the inside of the pc vs. using an esata to usb cable?
> 
> Okay - maybe a second small question. Will the esata enclosure come with instructions for enclosing the external hard drive - or is it written somewhere on these forums?
> 
> The final clinchers for me to do this myself are that I will enjoy the accomplishment. And having to repair my cablecards and deal with comcast again is far more of a gamble than doing it myself and thereby preserving the pairing on my new copied drive.
> 
> Thanks.
> Lynn.:


Atta Girl! Way to come through. :up: It all sounds daunting at first, but if you just take it step-by-step...slice it into sections rather than look at it as a whole I'm sure you'll do fine. The first post has been refined numerous times by bkdtv and includes everything you can imagine to get the job done. The original author of winMFS, Spike, also runs a web site dedicated to TiVo upgrades (albeit a little more technically oriented), MFSLive.org. That's where you'll get a copy of the program. You'll need to register here and then download it. You could leave him a note of thanks as well...without his expertise all of this would not be possible.

I can't remember if you're trying to save your existing recordings. If you are then direct SATA connections are much faster. If you're just imaging a drive (see you're getting the lingo now  ) a USB/eSATA adapter will do just fine...the files aren't really very big at all.

With regard to the eSATA enclosure it depends. Some come with nothing, others, like the Antec MX-1 (highly recommended) not only have instructions, they have a video which can be viewed here. (Aren't you glad you can see the links now?) Actually if you view that video it pretty much covers any enclosure. You open it up, connect the hard drive to the enclosure's bridge - the part that has the connectors and a few other chips and circuits on it - and close it up. It's very simple once you see one.

Again, take it slow, don't miss any steps and you'll be in gigabyte heaven in no time. Then I'd imagine you'll be building your own computers and showing that cousin of yours in California a thing or two.


----------



## richsadams

jfstx said:


> my samsung hdd 103ui 1 tb just went to grey screen after a reboot. It won't come back up. I've pulled it and want to hook it up to my computer via the usb to sata cables to run some tests. but when I do I can't get my computer to recognize it. My comp. is less than a year old with vista 64. Could use some advise. thx


First, your computer should not recognize it because it's not formatted FAT32 or NTFS. You'll need to boot into a third party diagnostic program like WD's Lifeguard. Samsung probably has one of their own programs as well. Or there are programs you can buy such as SpinRite to test and repair hard drives. SpinRite costs about as much as a hard drive though so it's probably not worth purchasing unless you're going to be testing lots of hard drives.

One question...besides the USB/SATA adapter, are you also connecting power to the drive? That's one of those D'oh moments we all experience now and then. When you power up your computer is the drive spinning up? If it's powered and it's not spinning up you have an ex-drive. In any case, it may be time for an Samsung RMA.

Hope that helps, best of luck and let us know how things go.


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## jfstx

Yes it is powered on. I'm really puzzled why it just quit. It ran for over 6 months and not a problem. I stuck the original drive back in. I also saved a copy of the tivo software on my laptop. I ordered a wd 1tb to replace it. When I go to copy the software from my laptop to the new drive do I just use winmfs and use copy? thanks for your help.


----------



## ccrider2

bareyb said:


> This happens to me all the time if I don't visit this forum for awhile. I have a feeling there's something in the software that stops the auto emails if you haven't logged in for a specified period of time. Once I come back the emails come back. Same thing happens on the AVS forums. If for some reason I go back there, I start getting emails from old threads I am subscribed to that are still active.


Hm...that's odd...I don't think I've ever been more than a day or two late responding to en email alert.....I'm always reading my subscribed threads....I have no life. 

The AVS Forum seems to want to send me multiple alerts on the same thread without me responding to any yet for the day....go figure. 

Thanks For the Words,

Chris


----------



## richsadams

jfstx said:


> Yes it is powered on. I'm really puzzled why it just quit. It ran for over 6 months and not a problem. I stuck the original drive back in. I also saved a copy of the tivo software on my laptop. I ordered a wd 1tb to replace it. When I go to copy the software from my laptop to the new drive do I just use winmfs and use copy? thanks for your help.


Bummer. When you say quit, do you mean it no longer spins up or just doesn't work in your TiVo anymore? Whatever the case, guess it happens now and then. Both the 1TB WD's in our TiVo's are humming along nicely as is another 1TB WD that used to be in our Series3 and is now a computer backup drive. WD has come very, very long way from their dark days years ago IMO.

I have to confess that I've never used the backup (.bak file) on my computer as the data source for a new drive with winMFS. The last time I did that it was back in the command line Hinsdale dark ages. I've always used the original drive, following the instructions in (what is now) Section V, #18a or #18b in the first post of this thread. I understand that you'd use winMFS and the "restore" option to copy the files over. IIRC there are some anomalies when you do that though. I think you have to do a "clear and delete" to clean things up. Plus odd things happen like seeing a list of recordings that were on your drive at the time of the backup but only the titles are available, not the actual recordings (they can be cleared out). But AFAIK season passes, cable card info and other settings are still there. Perhaps bkdtv or someone that's done that can chime in? I'd like to know the details as well.

Best of luck!


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## donnoh

richsadams said:


> Nice find. :up: I just ordered one - $69.99 w/coupon code incl. shipping - saahweet! I think back to the first WD 1TB a bunch of us bought for $259 from BB a couple of years ago...and we thought we really scored.  And hey, I'm always up for a challenge!
> 
> I was looking for a good backup drive. So I'll go ahead and image this new Sammy and pop it into my TiVo HD, pull the WD10EVCS and use it for a backup drive for one of my Mac's if it works. I know the Spinpoints were problematic in TiVo's for some folks (soft reboot issue or just flaky IIRC) so if it doesn't work in the TiVo HD I'll just slip the WD back in and use the Sammy for a backup. Win-win!
> 
> I'm mucho busy the next couple of weeks but I'll post back ASAP.


Just a heads up with Samsung drives ordered from Newegg. I ordered two for a home server and while they worked for a couple of weeks they went belly up after that. They came shipped in blister packs inside a box with foam peanuts.

After that experience I'll never order another Samsung drive or another drive from Newegg. I don't know who's fault it was and don't care either, I would definately not use a drive from Newegg in a Tivo.


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## lynnalexandra

Hard to believe I'd have more questions - but I do. But only because I'm narrowing in on it now. I am going to get a new 1TB internal hard drive for my Tivo HD and want to get and configure an external 1TB drive at the same time. In pricing the components to build and configure an external 1TB drive for my Tivo HD, the cost for one of the 2 recommended Western Digital hard drives (WD10EVCS or WD10EVVS), the Antec MX-! enclosure and esata cable will come to about $160-170. How would using this combination compare to taking the Western Digital 1TB DVR expander and re-marrying it's hard drive to my about to be upgraded new internal hard drive. The DVR expander was $167 from Amazon. It has a 1TB drive, enclosure and cable included. I think I read that it doesn't have a fan but is somehow built to keep things cool and quiet without one. I'm inclined to think that if this is the Tivo supported external drive, that the cooling must be sufficient even without a fan. 

Is there any reason not to use the DVR expander (which my mother is planning to give me on Tuesday - unless I decide I should put together my own components and return it). So I'm ready to order whatever hard drives, enclosures and cables I need - but don't know if there's any reason to get a 1TB WD10EVC or WD10EVVS, antec mx-1 enclosure and cable instead of just opening up the DVR expander and taking it's hard drive and marrying to my new upgraded internal drive.

Another question - do I use the same cable to connect the Tivo hard drives to my computer for imaging as I would later use to connect the Tivo to the external hard drive?

Thanks.
Lynn.


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## richsadams

donnoh said:


> Just a heads up with Samsung drives ordered from Newegg. I ordered two for a home server and while they worked for a couple of weeks they went belly up after that. They came shipped in blister packs inside a box with foam peanuts.


Newegg could certainly do better at packing OEM drives that's for sure. I've purchased four or five in the last couple of years...mostly WD's as well as a couple of Seagates. All are running fine. But you're right, it's pretty lousy packing.

The Samsung's a brand new model and I'm just curious to see if it will work in a TiVo HD. The TiVo HD isn't mission critical so if it eventually fails I can live with that. If it doesn't work from the get-go I'll use it for a backup drive so not a big deal. For $69 bucks...what the heck...live dangerous I always say.


----------



## richsadams

lynnalexandra said:


> Is there any reason not to use the DVR expander (which my mother is planning to give me on Tuesday - unless I decide I should put together my own components and return it). So I'm ready to order whatever hard drives, enclosures and cables I need - but don't know if there's any reason to get a 1TB WD10EVC or WD10EVVS, antec mx-1 enclosure and cable instead of just opening up the DVR expander and taking it's hard drive and marrying to my new upgraded internal drive.
> 
> Another question - do I use the same cable to connect the Tivo hard drives to my computer for imaging as I would later use to connect the Tivo to the external hard drive?
> 
> Thanks.
> Lynn.


Cracking the case of the WD My DVR Expander is not easy and IIRC a couple of folks here ended up breaking them. Plus it voids the warranty. That doesn't rule it out though because you should be able to connect it to a computer using a PCI eSATA adapter (yep, something else you'd need to buy). The Expander only carries a one-year warranty as well while bare WD drives have a three-year warranty. So there are a few things to consider.

BTW, if you're talking about the eSATA cable that connects the external hard drive to TiVo, the MX-1 also comes with one. You could use that one if you had an eSATA connector on your computer (same scenario as above). Otherwise, no, you would need a basic SATA II cable to connect your new SATA hard drives directly to your computer's SATA connections on the motherboard.

Cost when using a bare hard drive for the internal upgrade and a WD My DVR Expander as the eSATA drive:

1 - WD 1TB WD10EVCS hard drive ($99.24 w/free shipping - 3 year warranty)
1 - WD My DVR Expander ($169.99 w/free shipping - 1 year warranty)
1 - PCI eSATA Adapter ($24.99 w/free shipping)
1 - SATA cable w/power adapter ($8.78 w/free shipping if you buy the WD 1TB My DVR Expander)
1 - copy wimMFS (free download)

Total cost: $303.00

Cost for 2 bare hard drives for internal upgrade and eSATA drive and enclosure:

2 - WD 1TB WD10EVCS hard drives ($99.24 ea. w/free shipping - 3 year warranty)
1 - Antec MX-1 Enclosure ($48.94 w/free shipping - 3 year warranty)
2 - SATA cables w/power adapter ($8.78 ea. w/free shipping if you buy the MX-1)
1 - copy wimMFS (free download)

Total cost: $264.98

Either combination would give you everything you need to create a 2TB TiVo HD utilizing your original hard drive's image. All of the items listed (except the cables) can usually be found on sale at various times, but those were the lowest prices I could find at the moment.

If you've never purchased anything from buy.com you can use this coupon code for $5.00 off a purchase of $100 or more or this coupon code for $10 off on a purchase of $200 or more.

BTW: Nice mom! :up:


----------



## fallingwater

Is it possible and/or practical to replace HDTiVo's internal HDD with another eSATA drive by physically running the connection cable out the back of HDTiVo to a jack to which a replacement HDD in a suitable external case plugs into? If the replacement drive is formatted properly how would this be any different from an internal HDD.

Why couldn't any HDTiVo thus be able to use any number of properly formatted HDDs one at a time as unlimited storage with plug-and-play convenience?

Why have I never seen this suggested or discussed? Why does Weaknees.com seem to offer this scheme only in a dual external configuration with automatic back-up?

http://www.weaknees.com/tivo-hd-tcd652160.php#path2

Is there something inherently unreliable about one-at-a-time unlimited HDD storage?


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## jlib

fallingwater said:


> Is it possible and/or practical to replace HDTiVo's internal HDD with another eSATA drive by physically running the connection cable out the back of HDTiVo to a jack to which a replacement HDD in a suitable external case plugs into? If the replacement drive is formatted properly how would this be any different from an internal HDD.


Yes, possible, and that is the way the original Series 3 "Terabyte TiVos" were configured back when quiet 1TB drives didn't exist yet. Two 500GB drives in striped RAID 0 format using a driverless hardware RAID enclosure were connected with an eSATA/SATA cable to the S3. And with the TiVO HD it is even easier since you can use the exterior eSATA port and just reroute it internally to the motherboard SATA port.


> Why couldn't any HDTiVo thus be able to use any number of properly formatted HDDs one at a time as unlimited storage with plug-and-play convenience?


This sort of destroys some of the important functionality of the TiVo in that you would have separate season passes, separate 30 day already seen database, separate ratings database, etc. So, even if you had them setup up so the cable card pairing was preserved you would lose so much functionality that it would not be worth it. Better to have a huge mondo drive attached to your PC and just archive the things you want to preserve using TiVo Desktop or other utilities. So, no, not practical. Some have also suggested separate external drives (_qua_ external) for the same reason but in that case it isn't even possible at all because only one external drive can be married to the internal at a time.


> Why have I never seen this suggested or discussed? Why does Weaknees.com seem to offer this scheme only in a dual external configuration with automatic back-up?


It is not suggested or discussed simply because it is not a good idea if you reflect upon the consequences of doing that. The Weaknees system really isn't intended for what you have suggested here. It simply takes the original external RAID idea and uses mirrored RAID 1 format on two 1TB drives for a total of 1TB capacity. It is just a way to improve reliability via redundancy.


> Is there something inherently unreliable about one-at-a-time unlimited HDD storage?


It is not so much that it is unreliable but that on a practical everyday level it is unworkable.


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## lynnalexandra

Thanks, Rich. That's what I needed to know. It is better to buy my own components and have a 3 yr warranty - and I don't want to "break" into a DVR expander case that isn't easily opened. So I ordered all the bare parts. (I had ordered from buy.com before, so I wasn't able to use the coupons - but thank you.)

Lynn.

PS If you think I had a lot of questions before, I shudder to think the trouble I'll be getting into when I have 2 bare drives and an opened PC in front of me.


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## ThAbtO

lynnalexandra said:


> Thanks, Rich. That's what I needed to know. It is better to buy my own components and have a 3 yr warranty - and I don't want to "break" into a DVR expander case that isn't easily opened. So I ordered all the bare parts. (I had ordered from buy.com before, so I wasn't able to use the coupons - but thank you.)
> 
> Lynn.
> 
> PS If you think I had a lot of questions before, I shudder to think the trouble I'll be getting into when I have 2 bare drives and an opened PC in front of me.


You still need to open the Tivo to add an unofficial drive, or even to change from the original drive inside.


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## fallingwater

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7331879#post7331879

Thanks for taking time to write a detailed explanation that I, who am not particularly digital-knowlegable, basically can understand.


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## wperry1

Have there been any changes in the max capacity on the TivoHD since the FAQ was written? It looks to have been done when the SW version was ~8 or 9 and my TivoHD box is at 11.0c.


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## bkdtv

wperry1 said:


> Have there been any changes in the max capacity on the TivoHD since the FAQ was written? It looks to have been done when the SW version was ~8 or 9 and my TivoHD box is at 11.0c.


No.

The FAQ is always updated to reflect the latest available information. Note the "Last Updated: June/5/2009" at the top of the FAQ.


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## djwilso

Using the guide in the first post of this thread, I was able to successfully replace the internal drive of my TiVo Original Series 3 with the recommended WD10EVCS drive.

I just wanted to say thanks to *bkdtv* and all of the contributors to the guide that made it so easy.

Once upon a time I upgraded the drive in my original Series 1 back around 2002, and MFS has really come a long way since then.

This guide saved a lot of money over purchasing a drive from DVRUpgrade or Weaknees and allowed me to save all of my recordings and CableCard pairing data.

So, thank you thank you thank you! 

Dennis


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## lynnalexandra

ThAbto - thank you. I do realize I have to open up the Tivo as well to get the original drive out - and to place the newly prepared upgraded drive in. I already did that with a prepared drive for my Tivo 2 - so the opening and replacing drives part didn't scare me. The programming and going into my computer is intimidating - but I think there's enough support here, well written instructions and Rich's endless patience - that I'm going to do it. (It was the DVR Expander I didn't want to open since Rich said some have had difficulties with that.)

My Antec Mx-! and sata cables arrived today. Hopefully the two drives will come by Friday and I can get this done over the weekend.

Thanks.
Lynn.


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## triger716

Ok while not a new Tivo user, I haven't used tivo since the original Sony DirecTivo Sat-T60.

I just have a couple of questions. I will be using a Tivo with FIOS (I don't have either FIOS or the Tivo yet) and have a few questions about that, but will post those in a different thread.

My main questions are on the possible upgraded HDD size on the TivoHD vs the TivoHD XL.

1) From reading this thread my understanding is that the maximum size for the TivoHD is 1.0TB for the internal + 1.0TB External for a total of 2.0TB. For the TivoHD. For the TivoHD XL the maximum size would be 2.0TB for the internal + 1.0TB for the external for a total of 3.0TB. Is this correct?

2) If number one is right, are the maximum size differences between the TivoHD and the TivoHD XL due to the differences in the Tivo's themselves or is it due to the WinMFS program?

I am basically trying to decide if I want to take advantage of the Father's Day special and get the TivoHD or buy a TivoHD XL. I want the one that will give me the largest total HDD size possible after upgrade. I will most likely do the upgrade right away.

Also has anybody tried using a Seagate Showcase ST31000SCA109-RK 1TB external HDD with a TivoHD? I know it probably wouldn't be "Plug and Play" but I would be upgrading the internal Tivo drive anyway.


Thanks. Looking forward to rejoining the world of Tivo. No other DVR I have used since the Sony Tivo Sat-T60 has come close to it.


----------



## bkdtv

triger716 said:


> 1) From reading this thread my understanding is that the maximum size for the TivoHD is 1.0TB for the internal + 1.0TB External for a total of 2.0TB. For the TivoHD. For the TivoHD XL the maximum size would be 2.0TB for the internal + 1.0TB for the external for a total of 3.0TB. Is this correct?


No. The maximum total *internal+external* size for either platform is the same 2.2TB (2.0TiB).

With current tools, the maximum possible capacity for a *single* internal or external drive is 1.1TB (1.0TiB) plus the capacity of the original drive. Hence, the maximum capacity for a single internal or external drive is 1.26TB for the TivoHD and 2.1TB for the TivoHD XL. If you prepared a 2.1TB internal drive for the TivoHD XL, then you could only use a ~0.1TB external drive.



triger716 said:


> 2) If number one is right, are the maximum size differences between the TivoHD and the TivoHD XL due to the differences in the Tivo's themselves or is it due to the WinMFS program?


The single drive differences are due to partition differences between the two platforms. WinMFS works by expanding a separate partition [up] to 1.1TB, so you have that capacity plus the original 160GB (TivoHD) or 1TB (TivoHD XL) partition.



triger716 said:


> I am basically trying to decide if I want to take advantage of the Father's Day special and get the TivoHD or buy a TivoHD XL. I want the one that will give me the largest total HDD size possible after upgrade. I will most likely do the upgrade right away.


If you buy the TivoHD XL, then you can add the "plug and play" 1TB My DVR Expander.

The TivoHD XL costs almost $400 more, however, at $488 (Amazon.com) plus $399 lifetime (price for new customers).



triger716 said:


> Also has anybody tried using a Seagate Showcase ST31000SCA109-RK 1TB external HDD with a TivoHD? I know it probably wouldn't be "Plug and Play" but I would be upgrading the internal Tivo drive anyway.


That looks like a good drive if you are going to pair an external drive manually with WinMFS, but it is pricy. Newegg.com wants $185 + shipping. The Fantom Drives GD1000EU would be much cheaper at $89.99 after rebate.


----------



## triger716

Thanks bkdtv for the quick response. Looks like I'll be ordering the Father's Day Special if the ultimate HDD size upgrade is the same with both the HD and the HD XL.


----------



## DixonAgee

I wonder if the WD10 EVCS stock is about to run out. Suddenly the Buy.com price is $160 - and Amazon.com lists it for $265. Others still have it for less, but for how long?

Fortunately the WD10 EVVS is still available at around $100 from these folks.

Regards,

DixonAgee


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## jlib

For TiVO upgrade purposes there is no advantage to getting the more expensive model


----------



## wannaB

I am thinking of upgrading my TiVo HD to a 1TB drive and using the drive out of my TiVo HD to upgrade my regular TiVo I have in the bedroom. Anyone see a problem doing this?


----------



## moxie1617

Yes, the drive interfaces are different. The old Tivo has a parallel interface and the new Tivo's have a serial interface.


----------



## wannaB

moxie1617 said:


> Yes, the drive interfaces are different. The old Tivo has a parallel interface and the new Tivo's have a serial interface.


Wow - that's something pretty obvious I should have picked up. Thanks!


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## vurbano

I followed the internal drive upgrade instructions and am shocked at how simple and fast it is. Upgraded 2 TivoHD units to 1 TB a piece. I used to extract programs from my hacked HR10-250 tivo and after using tivo desktop with the Tivo HD units I am also really impressed. Very slick.


----------



## Albertos

I am also very impressed with TIVO. It is very fast.

Thanks


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Welcome to the club!


Hello Rich:

Am I welcome too? 

This is my first post here, and I wanted to say hello to LO from the West Hills.

I am getting my 3 TiVo HD units delivered on Thursday, but I will wait a Month or so before I upgrade at least one of them. I guess it may take that long for Comcast to get 3 M-Cards running anyway! I hope our area has M-Cards.Perhaps a 1TB drive will be <$90 by then.


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## lynnalexandra

I thought I was all set to upgrade my internal Tivo drive and marry it to a 1TB external. I bought the hard drives, sata cable kits and antec enclosure. I'm getting hung up on something simple. I hooked up the original TiVo hard drive and the new (to be upgraded 1TB) hard drive via sata cable from the drives to the inside of my pc. But I don't know where to plug in the power cables? I see where to plug them into the Tivo hard drives - but have no idea where they go in my computer. Anyone have a way to help me? I've got Tivo's, pc's and bare drives strewn on my floor. I'm hoping not to leave them like this for long.

If it matters, I have a Dell Inspiron 530, XP, single internal 500GB hard drive. I have illustrations of the computer - and have it opened up, but I can't figure out where this white-ish/clear plug goes (with 4 pins inside). 

I can't imagine that I unplug my computer's drive - since it wouldn't start and run winmfs without it.

I truly think I could get the rest of this done pretty easily if I saw where to plug in the power cord.

Thanks.
Lynn.


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## richsadams

lynnalexandra said:


> I thought I was all set to upgrade my internal Tivo drive and marry it to a 1TB external. I bought the hard drives, sata cable kits and antec enclosure. I'm getting hung up on something simple. I hooked up the original TiVo hard drive and the new (to be upgraded 1TB) hard drive via sata cable from the drives to the inside of my pc. But I don't know where to plug in the power cables? I see where to plug them into the Tivo hard drives - but have no idea where they go in my computer. Anyone have a way to help me? I've got Tivo's, pc's and bare drives strewn on my floor. I'm hoping not to leave them like this for long.
> 
> If it matters, I have a Dell Inspiron 530, XP, single internal 500GB hard drive. I have illustrations of the computer - and have it opened up, but I can't figure out where this white-ish/clear plug goes (with 4 pins inside).
> 
> I can't imagine that I unplug my computer's drive - since it wouldn't start and run winmfs without it.
> 
> I truly think I could get the rest of this done pretty easily if I saw where to plug in the power cord.
> 
> Thanks.
> Lynn.


Hi Lynn. Based on what I could quickly look up this should resemble your computer's power supply:










According to the specs it has at least three, possibly four SATA power connectors. One should be attached to your computer's hard drive and one to a CD/DVD ROM drive and one or two are probably not connected to anything. You can use the two that aren't connected to your computer's hard drive to power your TiVo drives or if only one is free, temporarily disconnect the SATA power cable from the CD/DVD drive and connect it to one of your TiVo drives. The power connectors are the wider ones...the SATA cables are the smaller of the two.

Make sure you have your computer's power cord unplugged when doing all of this to avoid any shorts. When you power your computer on the new hard drives should spin up. You can listen to them for clicking noises (the heads moving about or "seeking") or you can pick the drive up and move it about with your hand. If it's spinning it will be resistant to turning like a gyroscope.

Hope that helps and happy upgrading!


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## lynnalexandra

Thanks, Rich. I did order the sata cable kits you recommended (and linked above). But I see no available Molex male connectors. In fact, I don't see any unavailable ones either. It seems as though the sata power cords inside the computer (from the dvd drive and hard drive of the pc) both have wires that run into a closed box (where the power cord gets plugged into from the outside). There doesn't appear to be access to the any male molex cables. 

There are 2 loose sata cables (on from the dvd drive and one from the hard drive) that are just lose in the pc. Is it possible to plug those sata power cables into the drives (and not use these molex to sata power adaptors)? I have no idea if I'll do damage by plugging these into the Tivo drives. The other possibility is to unplug the sata power cord from the dvd drive. That would give me two sata power plugs (both off the same power wires from the enclosed box in the pc). Should I unplug the dvd sata power cord and plug both sata power plugs into the 2 Tivo drives?

I feel a little less stupid at least bc. my computer does not appear to have the male molex connectors - just the black sata connectors.

Thanks.
Lynn.


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## richsadams

Hi Lynn. Sorry about that...see my edited note above. (You might have to refresh your browser or log out and back in to see the updated info.) I looked up the wrong (older) PC initially.

Yes, you should be able to use the two loose SATA power connectors to run the TiVo drives.

Sorry for the confusion.


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## richsadams

This is a follow up to Husky's earlier post about a screaming deal he found on a brand new line of drives from Samsung, a 1TB "eco-green" hard drive from Newegg.com. After a coupon discount it cost $69.99 shipped. Hard to beat that price! It's a nice drive, two platter, 5400 RPM w/32MB cache. It's very quiet (22 bels idle and 28 bels seek) and runs very cool. Photo of my drive here. Spec sheet here. I thought I'd try it as an internal hard drive upgrade in our TiVo HD.

Short version of my experiment...it didn't work. :down: Okay, here's the longer version.

Plan: Pull the previously upgraded 1TB Western Digital WD10EVCS out of our TiVo HD and replace it with the new Samsung HD103SI. (There's no advantage to doing that, I just wanted to see if the new Sammy would work.) Then if all went well I'd use the WD as a computer backup drive or if not, slip it back into the TiVo and use the Sammy for a backup drive instead. As mentioned earlier, the TiVo HD is in a guest room so it's not "mission critical" and if it were to fail at some point I always keep the original TiVo drives as backups JIC.

The drive arrived in about four days fully intact...albeit with Newegg's minimal packing consisting of an OEM clamshell, bubble wrap and foam peanuts. They certainly could do better, but this one (like other's I've purchased from them) survived the trip.

I switched everything we have over to Apple a while back but I kept a PC that I built a few years ago for just this reason. I downloaded the latest version of winMFS. I brought the original TiVo HD hard drive out of retirement and connected it via a USB adapter and connected the Samsung directly to one of the PC's SATA connections on the motherboard. (photo). I ran winMFS and created a new backup. Then I used MFSCopy to copy everything (old recordings, OS, etc.) over to the Samsung.

Once all was said and done I popped the new drive into TiVo, fired it up and kept my fingers crossed. I've done this many times now but waiting to see if it works seems to go on forever, kind of slo-mo. But...after an impatient wait...no love. The first time TiVo displayed the "Welcome. Powering up" screen and then almost immediately went to a gray screen. I rebooted it and it stayed on the Powering up screen forever. That means that the motherboard couldn't communicate with the hard drive.

I went back and tried using both the OEM and upgraded drive's image just to see if it would make any difference and got the same response&#8230;stuck on the "Powering up" screen. I swapped the inputs switched connections, etc. but it didn't make any difference. Every time the result was the same...no go.

I suspected there was a problem when I first installed the Samsung in the TiVo HD and fired it up because the drive ran several seek sequences and then silence. Normally the seek sequences continue until the unit is fully booted.

To be sure the drive was not faulty I ran the Hitachi drive fitness diagnostics program on it. (Interestingly enough the drive is so new that Samsung's own diagnostic program, Hutil, doesn't work with this drive.  ) The Hitachi program recognized it immediately. I ran the quick and then advanced/extended tests and the drive came through with flying colors. All is not lost, it will become a backup drive.

So bottom line, I can't recommend the new Samsung HD103SI as an internal upgrade hard drive for the TiVo HD. No idea why, but it just didn't work, period. That's not to say it might not work in a Series3 but my little experiment says it might not/probably won't work. It's possible that it might work as an eSATA drive, but I'll leave that for someone else to try.

This is similar to what others have posted about disappointing results with some of Samsung's Spinpoint drives as well (although IIRC some have had success with them.)

For my money (and time), I'd stay away from using Samsung drives with TiVo for now no matter how compelling the price.

EDIT: The Sammy has been running fine as a computer backup drive for about three weeks now now...so it worked out in this case, just not as a TiVo drive.


----------



## lynnalexandra

While you were responding, I decided to also call Dell. They weren't very knowledgeable but at least confirmed that any of those loose sata power connectors could be plugged into the hard drives. There are 3 available (if I unplug the dvd drive) - but the one in the dvd drie is too short (a couple of inches) to reach to one of the hard drives. One power connector just barely reached (with the Tivo drive sitting on the case and slightly tilted inward) - and one sata power connector coming out of the pc's hard drive.

Anyway - it worked - or it is working. I made a truncated copy and now I"m copying from the original Tivo drive to the new internal tivo drive. Then I"ll do the external one.

The instructions here and help from you, Rich, have been great - and clear. If my Dell had had the molex connectors, I wouldn't have skipped a beat. A few hours - but many lessons learned. (Installing a second internal hard drive for my pc and a firewire port are going to be a piece of cake now.)

Thanks. I'll report back when all is finished.
Lynn.


----------



## richsadams

lynnalexandra said:


> While you were responding, I decided to also call Dell. They weren't very knowledgeable but at least confirmed that any of those loose sata power connectors could be plugged into the hard drives. There are 3 available (if I unplug the dvd drive) - but the one in the dvd drie is too short (a couple of inches) to reach to one of the hard drives. One power connector just barely reached (with the Tivo drive sitting on the case and slightly tilted inward) - and one sata power connector coming out of the pc's hard drive.
> 
> Anyway - it worked - or it is working. I made a truncated copy and now I"m copying from the original Tivo drive to the new internal tivo drive. Then I"ll do the external one.
> 
> The instructions here and help from you, Rich, have been great - and clear. If my Dell had had the molex connectors, I wouldn't have skipped a beat. A few hours - but many lessons learned. (Installing a second internal hard drive for my pc and a firewire port are going to be a piece of cake now.)
> 
> Thanks. I'll report back when all is finished.
> Lynn.


Sounds good. And it sounds like we've both spent the good part of a Saturday playing around with TiVo upgrades. I know your efforts will turn out much better than mine. At least it's raining here so not a huge loss.

Just be careful not to short out the exposed circuit boards on the back of the hard drives by touching them to metal anywhere. Otherwise it sounds like you're good to go.

Yep, you'll be able to replace/add a hard drive in your sleep now. See...not so hard huh?


----------



## MPSAN

So, Rich, I guess I am not Welcome. 

Anyway, I guess you did not see my first post (#3034 above). 
I was looking at adding a WD10EVVS as they are now <$100. The EVCS it way more $$$, but the EVVS shows an 8MB buffer on some sites. On others it is 16MB. So, do you know which is correct? I do assume that they are 7,200 RPM drives.


----------



## bkdtv

MPSAN said:


> So, Rich, I guess I am not Welcome.
> 
> Anyway, I guess you did not see my first post (#3034 above).


We saw your post. But you are not a part of the club until you upgrade your TiVo. Sorry.


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## MPSAN

bkdtv said:


> We saw your post. But you are not a part of the club until you upgrade your TiVo. Sorry.


...but I do want to wait for the 3 of them to at least warm up. Seriously...is 1 Month AFTER M-Cards safe enough?

I guess my sig says it all!


----------



## lrhorer

lynnalexandra said:


> There doesn't appear to be access to the any male molex cables.


All connections which supply power TO a device are female. This is in part for safety reasons. If male connectors supplied power, then for many connector types, bare electrical connectors with possibly hazardous voltages present would be sticking out where any conductor - like a human body - could short them out. That is why all wall plugs and the business end of all extension cords, as well as all other power cables, are female. Male connectors are only to be used to accept power FROM a power source, never to deliver power TO a device. Some low voltage applications use hermaphroditic connectors, but in such cases the male half of the connector must always be at frame ground potential.

Rich Adams already answered the rest, but to clarify a bit:

There are three types of drive power connectors typicaly found in contemporary desktop PCs. The first is a small polarized Insulation Displacement Connector used typically to power floppy drives and low power controllers such as port multipliers or sometimes fans, such as the two connectors on the left in this picture:










I have never seen a hard drive which uses this sort of power connector, but most power supplies have at least one or two of these hanging off them. The next type is the old 4 pin Molex connector from which most hard drives and CD / DVD drives in the past obtained their power. Some contemporary SATA drives still have molex connectors on them, and most modern power supplies still provide at least a couple of these, as many drives, especially PATA drives, only have this type of connector:










Finally, all SATA (AFAIK) drives employ a newer, thinner multiple conductor power connector which slips onto an edge-card connector. Some SATA drives have both types of connector, but one need only connect one power cable to such drives. Some systems, like the TiVo, employ a single conenctor which delivers both power and signals to the drive. There is a newer, recently released SATA cable which is smaller than the current SATA signal / power connectors, but I have not yet actually seen a drive which employs them. AFAIK, all SATA drives can make use of a power cable like this:










If one's computer system does not have enough power cables to handle all the drives one wishes to power, "Y" cables like those shown abopve are readily available for about $5 at any computer and electronics store.


----------



## lrhorer

MPSAN said:


> ...but I do want to wait for the 3 of them to at least warm up. Seriously...is 1 Month AFTER M-Cards safe enough?


Really, it is a matter of personal perspective. The main consideration for most people, I think, is that these upgrades void the warranty. If you can see your way to ignoring the fact, or if you wait until the warranty is expired, then you've cleared the highest hurdle. Thereafter, once everything seems stable for at least 24 hours after you have things working, then I would say any time you are comfortable with doing the upgrade is fine. The only thing which ever really held me back was falling drive prices. It wounds my soul to pay for something only to see its price drop by more than 50% over the next few months, so I often wait until drive prices get lower. Then again, I'm cheap as all heck.


----------



## lynnalexandra

lrhorer - thanks for that very clear explanation about power sources in the pc. I may get a y bracket if I do anything of this sort again. It was really too short a power cord.

Anyway - I now have a problem. I hooked up the Tivo with new drive - and the external hard drive in the Antec. Hooked up the tivo, tv, antec and all cables. Powered the tivo - and nothing - just says no program.

I'm thinking I may have accidentally switched the two hard drives. So maybe the wrong drive is in the Tivo. I'll try switching them - but wonder if anyone could tell me if that sounds right? Also, when I used winmfs to set up the external drive, it was very quick. When I selected the new tivo internal to drive A and the external drive to drive B, and selected Tools - MFSadd, it asked me if I was sure bc. it would be writing a Tivo drive. Not sure what that meant - so I went back and doublechecked and I had selected the correct drives for A and B. So I said OK. The instructions do not indicate that I would get this prompt (are you sure?). Did something go wrong there. If that's normal, it would be helpful to have it in the instructions so people like me don't panic. But now I'm worried that that in and of itself was a problem.

I'm hoping - 6 1/2 hours later - to only have to do this one more time. So could someone also walk me through the order of reconnecting Tivo, external drive, cables, power - and which to power up first (tv, tivo, external drive?) - the instructions don't specify. Does that mean there's no such thing as the wrong order? 

Thanks.
Lynn.


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## MPSAN

lrhorer said:


> Really, it is a matter of personal perspective. The main consideration for most people, I think, is that these upgrades void the warranty. If you can see your way to ignoring the fact, or if you wait until the warranty is expired, then you've cleared the highest hurdle. Thereafter, once everything seems stable for at least 24 hours after you have things working, then I would say any time you are comfortable with doing the upgrade is fine. The only thing which ever really held me back was falling drive prices. It wounds my soul to pay for something only to see its price drop by more than 50% over the next few months, so I often wait until drive prices get lower. Then again, I'm cheap as all heck.


Well, I am not sure how long the Warranty is for. Also, I believe that I will only upgrade one of them. I think that it may be wise to take the other two out to backup. In case of a drive failure I would not have to go thru the M-Card/Comcast thingy again...I am afraid that when I get my TiVo HD units Thursday, I will have to call them. I hope they have M-Cards here. Rick may know.

I know what you mean about drive prices. My first Apple ][+ system (which I still have) had a 20M HDD...it was $20/MB. At that rate a 1TB drive would have cost me $20,000,000...I am glad I waited!


----------



## MPSAN

lynn, can what you wanted to do be done all at once? I will be looking for this answer also.

The way I read part IV on the first page makes me think that you FIRST have to use the Original TiVo drive (or a backup file you created from it) to then make the New 1TB internal drive. I would then put it in the TiVo to be sure that part is OK.

THEN, I would use that new 1TB drive you just verified in the TiVo and add the drive for the external 1TB (eSATA) unit. It sounds to me like you used both 1TB drives at the same time, before getting the first one running.

P.S. I also have the Antec case and use it for eSATA PC backup. I MAY try what you are doing, too.


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## lynnalexandra

I followed the instructions in section IV, FAQ 11. I think I was supposed to do both at once. First get the new internal hard drive set up from the original Tivo HD. Then marry the new internal hard drive with the new external hard drive.

I've just switched hard drives, so I'll see if that was my mistake. If not, I'm stumped.

Lynn.


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## MPSAN

lynnalexandra said:


> I followed the instructions in section IV, FAQ 11. I think I was supposed to do both at once. First get the new internal hard drive set up from the original Tivo HD. Then marry the new internal hard drive with the new external hard drive.
> 
> I've just switched hard drives, so I'll see if that was my mistake. If not, I'm stumped.
> 
> Lynn.


Well, that does not make sense. IF you take out the 160GB drive, and then use BOTH new 1TB drives, how is the software going to get on there? This is what I see...in IV-11-9

9. Shut down Windows, turn off your computer, and connect the TiVo's built-in SATA drive and your new replacement SATA drive. You can open your computer and connect both with SATA cables, or you can connect them externally using a pair of SATA->USB adapters or a dual drive dock. Both drives should be connected to your PC at the same time.

...and 11 and 13 seem to verify what I am saying...THEN you use step 15 to Marry the new external drive.

Get ORIGINAL 160GB software as a backup. THEN copy it to the NEW 1TB drive you want to be the Internal drive, etc. Then continue. As I said, with two NEW drives, you need the software from the 160GB drive...just a thought.


----------



## lynnalexandra

I'm stumped. Switching the hard drives didn't do it. So something else went very wrong - and I have no idea what. Having spent almost 8 hours at this, I'm hoping somebody can help me figure out what went wrong. 

When I go to power the Tivo up, nothing happens. I put the Tv on, and it says "No Program" - against a dark bluish grey screen. I also tried without the external drive plugged in. Nothing.

The first two steps seemed to go as described. making the truncated back-up. Then imaging the original Tivo drive and copying it onto the new upgraded internal drive. When I went to program the external drive, and chose mfsadd, it may not have seemed right. Of course, even if that part didn't go right, the new internal hard drive should have worked.

Help, please.
Lynn.


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## lynnalexandra

Mspan - we cross posted. I think I did do what you suggested. I took the original Tivo 160GB hard drive out - connected it to my pc - and connected the new 1TB hard drive (to become the new internal hard drive). I selected Tools, MFScopy - and it seemed to copy the software and recorded shows from my original drive (took about an hour).

I kept my newly imaged 1TB internal hard drive connected to the PC. I unplugged the original Tivo drive. I hooked up my new external drive. Then married the external drive to the new internal drive - as per instructions in #18 (the first option).

So I think I followed the instructions to the letter.

Lynn.


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## lynnalexandra

I think I wasn't clear when I said I just switched hard drives. I meant that after doing all the instructions to the letter - I thought it might not have worked bc. I accidentally put the newly programmed internal drive in the esata case and the new external drive inside the Tivo. So I switched them in case I had mistaken them inthe first place.

When I did the initial programming of the new internal sata drive, I did not just switch drives - I connected them to the pc and imaged the original onto the new one.

Lynn.


----------



## lrhorer

MPSAN said:


> Well, I am not sure how long the Warranty is for. Also, I believe that I will only upgrade one of them. I think that it may be wise to take the other two out to backup. In case of a drive failure I would not have to go thru the M-Card/Comcast thingy again


I'm not sure what you mean. My personal preference is to upgrade the stock internal drive to whatever drive size one wishes - 1T drives are pretty ine4xpensive right now - and take the stock 160G drive and sit it on the shelf in case of a later drive failure. You will not need to call Comcast to re-marry the CableCards with your system, either with the new drive or in the event the new drive fails and yu swap back to the old drive. You can do this with every TiVo if you like. Just be sure to carefully label the TiVos and the hard drive in some way so you don't confuse which drive went with which TiVo, or you may indeed have to make a call to Comcast when you switch back to the old drive.



MPSAN said:


> I know what you mean about drive prices. My first Apple ][+ system (which I still have) had a 20M HDD...it was $20/MB. At that rate a 1TB drive would have cost me $20,000,000...I am glad I waited!


The first drives I ever purchased (for the University where I worked, not for myself) were a pair of 12" removable media drives. They were 2RU (3.5") tall, 19" rack-mount drives with an on-line storage capacity of 8MB each. Together, they cost $12,000, or $750 per MB. That was in 1981. Allowing for inflation, in today's dollars a 1T worth of on-line storage at the time would have cost about 1,200,000,000,000 dollars!


----------



## MPSAN

lrhorer said:


> I'm not sure what you mean. My personal preference is to upgrade the stock internal drive to whatever drive size one wishes - 1T drives are pretty ine4xpensive right now - and take the stock 160G drive and sit it on the shelf in case of a later drive failure. You will not need to call Comcast to re-marry the CableCards with your system, either with the new drive or in the event the new drive fails and yu swap back to the old drive. You can do this with every TiVo if you like. Just be sure to carefully label the TiVos and the hard drive in some way so you don't confuse which drive went with which TiVo, or you may indeed have to make a call to Comcast when you switch back to the old drive.
> 
> The first drives I ever purchased (for the University where I worked, not for myself) were a pair of 12" removable media drives. They were 2RU (3.5") tall, 19" rack-mount drives with an on-line storage capacity of 8MB each. Together, they cost $12,000, or $750 per MB. That was in 1981. Allowing for inflation, in today's dollars a 1T worth of on-line storage at the time would have cost about 1,200,000,000,000 dollars!


Well, I did not mean that I would have to backup the drive from the TIVO I was going to upgrade. I am getting 3 and will keep the other two stock. Because of that, I may do a backup of the other two and then keep that backup on two CD's. In that way if the non-upgraded TIVO units have an HDD issue, I can then buy a new HDD and restore from the correct CD Image.

As to your big drive cost goes, we also used to have drums on the "big iron" I used to work on. Those sizes seemed so big then! Remember backing up a PC hard drive on floppy disk!??

MPSAN...Migrant Electronics Worker!


----------



## lrhorer

lynnalexandra said:


> When I did the initial programming of the new internal sata drive, I did not just switch drives - I connected them to the pc and imaged the original onto the new one.


OK, let's take this step by step. The original drive should be easy to identify. It should be clearly labeled as a 160GB drive, while the new drives should be readily identifieable by their sizes, as well.

Take the *ORIGINAL 160G HARD DRIVE*, put it in the TiVo, hook up the internal signal / power jumper, and plug the Tivo back in.

1. Does the TiVo Sunrise screen come up?
2. If so, after a few moments, does the "Almost there" screen come up?
3. If so, does the TiVo boot all the way up after about 6 minutes or so?

If the answer to all three is, "Yes", then you're good to proceed. If not, then we'll have to work to recover your system.

From here on, I am going to call the 160G drive the Original drive, the drive you intend to put inside the TiVo the Upgrade drive, and the second new drive the External drive You might do well to put a piece of masking tape on each new drive to label it. (Don't accidentally cover the vent hole on the drive!!)

Assuming the system does boot:

1. Shut down the TiVo, remove the Original drive again, and put both the Original drive and the Upgrade drive on your PC and boot up to WinMFS. When this is complete, follow the instructions for upgrading the single drive. Be sure to select the original drive as the source and the larger drive as the target. Start the upgrade process. This will probably take about 4 hours.

2. Once complete, shut down the PC, remove the original 160G hard drive, and put it up safely on the shelf.

3. Take your Upgrade drive and put it in the TiVo. Power up the TiVo to make sure it boots. Confirm everything is working.

4. Shut down the TiVo, and place the Upgrade drive along with the External drive into your PC. (If your PC has an eSATA port, then just mount the External drive in the external housing and plug the housing into the PC.)

5. Boot the PC and once again run WinMFS. This time all you will be doing is supersizing the drives and marrying the internal drive to the external drive. Both of these operations only take a moment each.

6. Remove the external drive and put it into the external housing if it is not already mounted in the housing.

7. Remove the upgrade drive and place it in the TiVo.

8. Plug in the external housing to the TiVo and supply power to it.

9. Supply power to the TiVo and check that everything works.


----------



## MPSAN

lynnalexandra said:


> I think I wasn't clear when I said I just switched hard drives. I meant that after doing all the instructions to the letter - I thought it might not have worked bc. I accidentally put the newly programmed internal drive in the esata case and the new external drive inside the Tivo. So I switched them in case I had mistaken them inthe first place.
> 
> When I did the initial programming of the new internal sata drive, I did not just switch drives - I connected them to the pc and imaged the original onto the new one.
> 
> Lynn.


Well, I am at a loss as I thought that you did not copy the 160GB software anywhere. I saw that they wanted any AV software disabled, but it sounds like this should have worked. Still, I would have tried the new 1TB drive first...then gone back and married them.


----------



## lrhorer

MPSAN said:


> Well, I did not mean that I would have to backup the drive from the TIVO I was going to upgrade. I am getting 3 and will keep the other two stock. Because of that, I may do a backup of the other two and then keep that backup on two CD's.


Ah! I see. 'Not a bad plan, at all. You may find yourself wanting more space on the other two TiVos - believe it or not. Whenever you do, you can always upgrade at that time.



MPSAN said:


> As to your big drive cost goes, we also used to have drums on the "big iron" I used to work on. Those sizes seemed so big then! Remember backing up a PC hard drive on floppy disk!??


Remember it? I still have bad dreams about it. When the drive in the dream changes from a 40M drive to a 10T drive array, the bad dream becomes a nightmare!


----------



## lynnalexandra

lrhorer - thank you. It's 1am here and I need to go to sleep, so I'll try those steps tomorrow. My first question, though, is what you mean by "hook up the internal signal / power jumper" - do you mean plug in the sata and power connector to the original drive? Then plug in the power cord and connect to the tv and see if it's working? No need to close up the drive enclosure and Tivo frame?

I suspect this will work - since this step seemed to go fine. and yes, it's clear which the original drive is. 

No esata port on my pc, so I'll have to open it up and connect to the internal sata ports and power supply. 

When I first copied the original drive onto the new internal drive, it took about an hour - but my hard drive was not full - maybe 7-8 hours of high def - a few standard. But I don't need those recordings (I have them on my pc or Tivo 2), so in the interest of time, I think I'd like to skip copying all the recorded shows and just copy the software. Is there a step to just do that?

When I tried to marry the new internal and external drives, it was quick. But I don't recall an option to supersize then (I did when formatting the first drive). Since that's where I got something different than the instructions, could someone tell me what should happen when I select MFSadd? I assume no screen suggesting that I'd be writing to a tivo drive? And I checked and checked that I had designated A and B correctly. 

After this step, I'd like to run the Tivo with new internal drive. Can I plug in the esata drive later - just so I can narrow down the point in the process that's a problem. Is it possible that if the external drive wasn't done correctly, that powering it and the Tivo up together caused it to not work? 

The fact that I tried each new drive inside the Tivo - meaning at least one of them was wrong - would that harm the Tivo - or harm the formatting on the drives - since I'm thinking that the first internal upgraded drive I formatted was done correctly.

So I should first try the new internal drive - and only after that's working should I add the external? Not powered up together?

Thanks.
Lynn.


----------



## lrhorer

lynnalexandra said:


> lrhorer - thank you. It's 1am here and I need to go to sleep


Sleep? What's sleep? 



lynnalexandra said:


> My first question, though, is what you mean by "hook up the internal signal / power jumper" - do you mean plug in the sata and power connector to the original drive?


Yes.



lynnalexandra said:


> Then plug in the power cord and connect to the tv and see if it's working?


Yes.



lynnalexandra said:


> No need to close up the drive enclosure


Drive enclosure? What drive enclosure? At this point the only thing active should be the TiVo.



lynnalexandra said:


> and Tivo frame?


If you feel more comfortable, you can put the case hood on the frame, but there certainly is no need to screw all the screws back in to the case. You don't want the drive rolling around inside and shorting out things, either, so if you leave the drive in the drive mount, then I would screw in at least two of the screws to secure it. Alternately, you can wrap the drive in a piece of heavy construction paper and tape the paper in place to keep its metal parts from coming into accidental contact with the Tivo innards. Certainly keep your fingers and any conductive objects away from the inside of the TiVo while power is applied. Also be aware that when the TiVo is shut down, it can take some time for the filter capacitors on the power supply to fully discharge. After a few seconds the voltages will not be hazardous to your body if you touch them, but a conductive object like a screwdriver shorted across them can generate a flash large enough to cause a small burn or to destroy components inside the unit. Unless you know what's what, it's best to let the unit sit for 4 or 5 minutes after unplugging it before sticking a screwdriver in it.



lynnalexandra said:


> I suspect this will work - since this step seemed to go fine.


I expect it will, but let's not assume. If it doesn't, all is still not lost, but we will have to get a bit more creative. 'Worst case, you might have to shell out $20 for a copy of InstantCake.



lynnalexandra said:


> No esata port on my pc, so I'll have to open it up and connect to the internal sata ports and power supply.


You might consider investing in an eSATA bracket like this, this or this for future utility. (Has anyone on the forum tried the third bracket out? It looks to be absolutely perrfect for use with an Antec MX-1 housing, if the power pin-outs are correct.)



lynnalexandra said:


> When I first copied the original drive onto the new internal drive, it took about an hour - but my hard drive was not full - maybe 7-8 hours of high def - a few standard. But I don't need those recordings (I have them on my pc or Tivo 2), so in the interest of time, I think I'd like to skip copying all the recorded shows and just copy the software. Is there a step to just do that?


It sounds like you did.



lynnalexandra said:


> When I tried to marry the new internal and external drives, it was quick. But I don't recall an option to supersize then (I did when formatting the first drive).


Correct. Supersizing can be done either before or after marrying the two drives. It's not part of the marriage process, and in fact it can be done before you remove the drive the first time, but I wanted to break the process down into small steps, checking along the way.

The next time you get to the point where you are about to marry the two drives, look carefully at the WinMFS screen when you select the A (Upgrade) drive. It should look something like this:












lynnalexandra said:


> Since that's where I got something different than the instructions, could someone tell me what should happen when I select MFSadd? I assume no screen suggesting that I'd be writing to a tivo drive? And I checked and checked that I had designated A and B correctly.


Well, I can't say what happened, since I was not there, but at a guess I would say despite your precautions, you accidentally got the drives swapped when selecting the primary and external drive. Don't feel foolish, if that's the case. I'm a professional engineer and I cannot count the times I have checked, double checked, and triple checked to make sure I had things in the right order, or polarities correct, or the safety in the correct position only to have the whole thing go ker-plewey because despite my checking it was not correct. After more than 30 years, it still happens to me all the time.



lynnalexandra said:


> After this step, I'd like to run the Tivo with new internal drive.


Exactly. It's a little extra time, but it makes sure everything is correct to this point.



lynnalexandra said:


> Can I plug in the esata drive later - just so I can narrow down the point in the process that's a problem.


Surely. In fact, if you re-read my post, you will see that is precisely my suggestion.



lynnalexandra said:


> Is it possible that if the external drive wasn't done correctly, that powering it and the Tivo up together caused it to not work?


No, not really. As long as the primary (Original or Upgrade) drive is plugged into the correct connector and properly powered, the TiVo should boot. Now it probably won't boot all the way up before it complains about an unrecognized external drive, but it should still boot.



lynnalexandra said:


> The fact that I tried each new drive inside the Tivo - meaning at least one of them was wrong - would that harm the Tivo - or harm the formatting on the drives - since I'm thinking that the first internal upgraded drive I formatted was done correctly.


No, it won't harm the TiVo or physicaly harm the drives, but I suspect the formatting was munged by having the drives swapped in the PC when you married them. It's really not a huge deal either way, other than of course wasting your time.



lynnalexandra said:


> So I should first try the new internal drive - and only after that's working should I add the external? Not powered up together?


Not after they are married, no. Once they are married, both need to be present for the TiVo to boot up. It should not trash things, but the TiVo will complain about the missing External drive and refuse to boot unless you tell it to perform a divorcement. If you accidentally do, then you will have to re-marry the drives. The bottom line is no, I would not particularly recommend booting up only the Upgrade drive once it is married to the External drive.


----------



## bkdtv

lrhorer said:


> You might consider investing in an eSATA bracket like this, this or this for future utility. (Has anyone on the forum tried the third bracket out? It looks to be absolutely perrfect for use with an Antec MX-1 housing, if the power pin-outs are correct.)


I use a bracket like the one below (it came with my motherboard). It includes a build in power connector and a bundled SATA->eSATA cable.


Click picture for order link.


----------



## lrhorer

That's neat, too, but the one from Newegg looks like perhaps it will work directly with an Antec MX-1 housing. I can't see the number of pins in the connector, and of course I have no way to confirm the pin-out over the web, but man, if it does indeed plug straight in to the MX-1, I definitely want it. Since I have refined the process for maintainng my TiVos, the main remaining hassle is moving the power bricks around and hauling out a power strip every time I need to pull the external drives (which are set up as my primary drives, rather than secondary drives) and move them to the PC.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

lrhorer said:


> That's neat, too, but the one from Newegg looks like perhaps it will work directly with an Antec MX-1 housing. I can't see the number of pins in the connector, and of course I have no way to confirm the pin-out over the web, but man, if it does indeed plug straight in to the MX-1, I definitely want it. Since I have refined the process for maintainng my TiVos, the main remaining hassle is moving the power bricks around and hauling out a power strip every time I need to pull the external drives (which are set up as my primary drives, rather than secondary drives) and move them to the PC.


The adapter is compatible with the Icy Dock enclosures, listed on the product page for the bracket. You may be able to find a manual for one of the enclosures that includes a description of how the power cable is wired.


----------



## lynnalexandra

lrhorer - thanks for confirming and breaking that down. I will try all of that (but no doubt get interrupted by my daughter and husband since it's father's day). I would love to use an external esata bracket and power connector like bkdtv showed above. The problem I discovered yesterday is that my Dell Inspiron 530 has no molex connectors. Just 2 free sata power connectors (yesterday I plugged my drives into those for power).

Now my antec mx-1 enclosure came with an esata bracket just like the first one lrhorer linked http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812226006. I think I can add this bracket to my pc and be able to plug in the enclosed antec case with external hard drive - directly into this newly added esata port. The problem is, where to get power. If the drive is left enclosed, I can't access it to use the pc's sata power connector. Can I just use the power cord that comes with the Antec mx-1 - and plug it into a wall outlet (or power strip)?

{I would love to eventually get the dual esata port from lrhorer's second link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812201015
but again, I'd need to know how I'm going to power the external drives.

When I married the two drives, I got the same screen lrhorer shows above. I selected the Tivo Series 2 or 3 (number 2) for drive A - and the external drive to drive B. Then I checked select B - chose the drive in 1, which indicated it was (I think) something like an unknown format - clearly not the Tivo formatted drive. Do you happen to know what it should look like after selecting drive B? When I select mfsadd, what screen should I see?

Thanks to everyone. What a generous helpful group of people. I'd be lost without you. As painful as this process has been, I have learned a lot that will put me in good stead for future upgrade work on my pc. (now my family would like their Tivo back - for some reason, running the coax cable from comcast straight to our tv is no longer working - I assume unrelated to this Tivo struggle.)

Thanks.
Lynn.


----------



## lynnalexandra

Okay - I've gotten so far as to program the new internal drive - and it runs - but also at some point mentions the missing external drive. If I turn on and connect the external drive I had thought I'd prepared last night, it doesn't recognize it. So I figured the problem was with the marrying the two drives (new internal and new external). So I hooked it up to my computer again. Try to run Winmfs. 

If I just select drive A (number 1), it says error - Your A drive is married to B drive but only A drive is selected. So I'm thinking great - the marriage worked. Now I go to select A and B drive. I choose 1 for A drive and 2 for the B drive. Both drives now say the same thing - same model number - Format Tivo Series 2 or 3. Size 1000 GB. Bus Type ATA. SAme sectors. Again it seems they've already been married. If I then go to MFSadd, it says "you are about to write to Tivo Drive(s); Are you sure? This is what I got yesterday - before I had said okay to mfsadd. For now, I won't say yes but wait to hear back from this forum. To me, this is again suggesting that both drives are Tivo ready.

But for further diagnostics - I will switch the selected drives. So now for Drive A I've selected 2 - and for Drive B I"ve selected 1. Then his select. Then select MFSadd, and it says "not a Tivo drive." So I'm stumped. This suggests that one of these drives is not Tivo ready - but when I selected the other way around, it says I'd be writing on a Tivo drive. 

So I will leave it all hooked up and hope somebody can tell me how to proceed. When I ran the new internal drive in my Tivo, it was looking for the external drive - but didn't recognize the external drive when it was connected. It almost seems as though the internal drive knows it's married, but the external drive doesn't. But either way I proceed to try to run mfsadd, there's a problem. Either it gives the yellow triangle warning that it's "not a tivo drive" or the warning that 
you are about to write to a Tivo drive." This second warning will let me proceed anyway.

So what should I do.
Thanks.
Lynn.


----------



## MPSAN

lrhorer said:


> Ah! I see. 'Not a bad plan, at all. You may find yourself wanting more space on the other two TiVos - believe it or not. Whenever you do, you can always upgrade at that time.
> 
> Remember it? I still have bad dreams about it. When the drive in the dream changes from a 40M drive to a 10T drive array, the bad dream becomes a nightmare!


Well, I plan on sharing and thought that 1TB was enough for one of them.

These drums were so hard to keep running! So well balanced, too. We would run a razor blade to see if there was a ding and a 1000 lb. horizontal drum would move if the blade hit a ding!


----------



## MPSAN

lynn...

What was suggested above was all I was trying to say yesterday. ie: do one thing at a time and in that way you will know which step was causing the problem. I know it will all work out in the end.

OH, Comcast going to TV without TiVo may have issues if the TV does not have ATSC Tuners with a CableCard letting you view stations that are not "in the clear".


----------



## lrhorer

lynnalexandra said:


> Now my antec mx-1 enclosure came with an esata bracket just like the first one lrhorer linked http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812226006. I think I can add this bracket to my pc and be able to plug in the enclosed antec case with external hard drive - directly into this newly added esata port. The problem is, where to get power. If the drive is left enclosed, I can't access it to use the pc's sata power connector. Can I just use the power cord that comes with the Antec mx-1 - and plug it into a wall outlet (or power strip)?


Yeah, that's the whole idea. No matter where the external drive is plugged in, it gets its power from the included power brick.



lynnalexandra said:


> {I would love to eventually get the dual esata port from lrhorer's second link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812201015
> but again, I'd need to know how I'm going to power the external drives.


Any external drive is always going to come with an auxiliary power supply.



lynnalexandra said:


> When I married the two drives, I got the same screen lrhorer shows above. I selected the Tivo Series 2 or 3 (number 2) for drive A - and the external drive to drive B. Then I checked select B - chose the drive in 1, which indicated it was (I think) something like an unknown format - clearly not the Tivo formatted drive. Do you happen to know what it should look like after selecting drive B?


Prior to the marriage, just as you describe.



lynnalexandra said:


> When I select mfsadd, what screen should I see?


It's been so long I don't exactly remember, but it should then recognize both drives. The MFS Info utility from within WinMFS will give you a lot of information.


----------



## lrhorer

MPSAN said:


> Well, I plan on sharing and thought that 1TB was enough for one of them.


Yeah, you're a noob, no question about it. 

My TiVo's have 500G, 1T, and 2T, and my Video Server has 8T, plus I have a couple of workstations I use for editing which have 1T apiece.

Go ahead and laugh. You'll see. You'll get the fever, too.


----------



## MPSAN

lrhorer said:


> Yeah, you're a noob, no question about it.
> 
> My TiVo's have 500G, 1T, and 2T, and my Video Server has 8T, plus I have a couple of workstations I use for editing which have 1T apiece.
> 
> Go ahead and laugh. You'll see. You'll get the fever, too.


OK...I do have the 20 hour Comcast boxes and run out of room fast! But, you can not share from room to room. I do have 3 ReplayTV's and have put 250GB drives in them. They can share and 250GB was a lot for SD!


----------



## lrhorer

lynnalexandra said:


> Okay - I've gotten so far as to program the new internal drive - and it runs - but also at some point mentions the missing external drive. If I turn on and connect the external drive I had thought I'd prepared last night, it doesn't recognize it.


Hang on.

First of all, you are supplying power to the external enclosure via the power brick, right? Whether attached to the computer or the TiVo, that's how the external drive gets its power.

Secondly, the order you mention is backwards. You must power up the external drive (the little blue light underneath the front panel will come on) and plug it into the TiVo first, and then you can power up the TiVo.



lynnalexandra said:


> So I figured the problem was with the marrying the two drives (new internal and new external). So I hooked it up to my computer again. Try to run Winmfs.
> 
> If I just select drive A (number 1), it says error - Your A drive is married to B drive but only A drive is selected. So I'm thinking great - the marriage worked. Now I go to select A and B drive. I choose 1 for A drive and 2 for the B drive. Both drives now say the same thing - same model number - Format Tivo Series 2 or 3. Size 1000 GB. Bus Type ATA. SAme sectors. Again it seems they've already been married. If I then go to MFSadd, it says "you are about to write to Tivo Drive(s); Are you sure? This is what I got yesterday - before I had said okay to mfsadd. For now, I won't say yes


I would give it a shot. Alternately (or if it does not work), you can put the Upgrade drive in the TiVo, boot it up, and tell it to perform the divorce.

After that, put the drive back in the PC and run FixDivorce from WinMFS, and then add in the External drive and re-marry them.


----------



## MPSAN

So, being new to TiVo HD...

How New Are You?
I am so new I do not have them yet!

UPS says they are in Texas...will get here June 25th...the day after my Birthday in case anyone wants to know.

Anyway, I do have a suggestion that would be a big help.

In the first post of this Thread there is the very good FAQ and detail of everything you want to know about upgrading, etc.

It takes a bit to scroll down...especially if you know from a previous read that you want Section IV. Could links be added at the top with the section titles that would link us directly there?

ie:


I. Summary of Expansion Options
II. Introduction
III. Officially Supported External Drives (also known as "TiVo Verified" drives)
IV. Unsupported External Drives (also known as "Non-Verified" drives)
V. Internal Drive Upgrades

If those...and the others had a direct link that takes you to the section we wanted it would be a big help.

Thank you,


----------



## lynnalexandra

lrhorer - honestly - I've connected and unconnected this stuff so many times, that I don't know if I got the order wrong every time. I know the last time I had plugged the external drive in before powering up the Tivo - but didn't realize until after I powered up the Tivo that the hard switch was off on the esata drive. I put it on - but perhaps doing it out of sequence caused it to fail. The times I tried last night, I cannot recall the order - bc. I did not know there was a recommended order to powering these things up. (It would be nice if that were included in the first section too. Step 21 currently says, "#


# Reinstall the internal drive, replace the TiVo's outer case, and connect the eSATA drive.

# You're done." For a newbie like me, I guess that just wasn't specific enough instruction. I think I did see elsewhere on this thread today (or somewhere in my hours of online research today) that the order mattered. Again, I just don't know if I ever got the order right. maybe that was the only problem.

So I'll re-marry - and guess if it's already married, a second ceremony won't hurt anything. If it doesn't work, I'll do the divorce as you suggested - return to winmfs and try again.

Just one more thing to be sure - by "power brick" (a new term to me), you mean the little box that has a cord attaching to the esata enclosure and another cord coming out and ending in a standard plug that plugs into a wall socket? That is what I used. And since that seemed to work, I can see that I can get that double estata port. For now, I just put the single esata port in my pc (the one the antec mx-1 came with).

Okay - here I go again. Surely the ninth time is the charm.
Thanks again for your patience and guidance.

Lynn.


----------



## lynnalexandra

YIPPEE! Finally - done. Tivo HD with 1TB internal hard drive and 1TB external hard drive. FWIW, all my recorded shows had transferred to the new internal drive in the hour it took MSFcopy to copy from the original drive.

I tried to remarry the drives - it failed and said there was no more space on the drive. So again, it seemed the external drive was already married. So I unhooked drives from the pc and installed in the Tivo and Esata enclosure. This time, I turned on the esata drive first and powered the Tivo last. It went through the initial warm up - gave the screen "almost there" - Then in the few minutes I was gone to tuck my daughter in, the screen was blank. I didn't know whether it had said anything about the external drive or not. I could not get a Tivo screen back up.

So I unplugged the Tivo- waited a minute - repowered the Tivo. And the entire set up worked - the external drive shows up. All is well. I don't know why it didn't work the time before - but it did this time.

Thanks for all the help.
Lynn.


----------



## ThAbtO

lynnalexandra said:


> YIPPEE! Finally - done. Tivo HD with 1TB internal hard drive and 1TB external hard drive. FWIW, all my recorded shows had transferred to the new internal drive in the hour it took MSFcopy to copy from the original drive.
> 
> I tried to remarry the drives - it failed and said there was no more space on the drive. So again, it seemed the external drive was already married. So I unhooked drives from the pc and installed in the Tivo and Esata enclosure. This time, I turned on the esata drive first and powered the Tivo last. It went through the initial warm up - gave the screen "almost there" - Then in the few minutes I was gone to tuck my daughter in, the screen was blank. I didn't know whether it had said anything about the external drive or not. I could not get a Tivo screen back up.
> 
> So I unplugged the Tivo- waited a minute - repowered the Tivo. And the entire set up worked - the external drive shows up. All is well. I don't know why it didn't work the time before - but it did this time.
> 
> Thanks for all the help.
> Lynn.


How many hours do you have now?


----------



## richsadams

lynnalexandra said:


> YIPPEE! Finally - done. Tivo HD with 1TB internal hard drive and 1TB external hard drive. FWIW, all my recorded shows had transferred to the new internal drive in the hour it took MSFcopy to copy from the original drive.


I knew if I waited long enough you'd get it!  Apologies, I've been away for the better part of two days and didn't have time to get back into the mix. I'm glad several of our knowledgeable friends were able to assist you with your goal. I'm even happier that everything is as it should be. Nice work! :up:

BTW, if you ever have to move your setup:

Powering TiVo and eSATA drive down:

1. Disconnect/unplug TiVo
2. Turn off and unplug the eSATA drive
3. Unplug the eSATA cable from TiVo and the eSATA drive

Setting TiVo back up

1. Connect the eSATA cable to the eSATA drive and TiVo
2. Connect the eSATA drive to power and turn it on (wait 10 seconds or so for the drive to spin up)
3. Connect power to TiVo

The official TiVo instructions can be found here as well.

Basically you just don't want to unplug or turn off the eSATA drive while TiVo is plugged in as it will ask to divorce the drive. As long as TiVo is unplugged you can pretty much do whatever you need to do with the eSATA drive. Just make sure the drive is on and plugged into TiVo before plugging TiVo back in.

Congrats and welcome to the club!


----------



## lynnalexandra

Thabto - I now have 318 Hd hours or 2777 SD hours. That should keep me busy for a few months. That's just the Tivo HD. On my Tivo 2 I have a 500GB hard drive (don't think this preformatted drive was mfssupersized - so probably about 600 SD hours there. And then there's my PC - where I can transfer shows and store there if needed. After this, I think it will be easy for my to add a second internal 1TB hard drive to my PC.

Thanks Rich. Glad to be part of the club. And I appreciate the instructions for unplugging, replugging, moving any of these in the future. (It really would help us newbies to put more instructions in the first part with order of reconnecting after upgrading).

Thanks to all for your generosity and wisdom.
Lynn.


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Hello Rich:
> 
> Am I welcome too?


It's like Groucho said..."I don't want to join a club that will accept me as a member". But of course you're welcome. Just be careful not to let anyone else know who you're associating with. 



MPSAN said:


> ...but I do want to wait for the 3 of them to at least warm up. Seriously...is 1 Month AFTER M-Cards safe enough?
> 
> I guess my sig says it all!


Waiting a month before upgrading is a very good idea. :up: That way you'll know that everything is running as it should.


----------



## MPSAN

Thanks Rich.

I now need to call Comcast to see if I can get 3 M-Cards in our area.

Cover me...I'm goin in!!


----------



## normthegreycat

Hello All -

Just wanted to post a thank you for everyone's valuable info. I got a used TivoHD, got a new 1TB WD10EADS from NewEgg on sale in one day shipped for less than 90 bucks.. I used the upgrade internal retain settings - I think it was section V - and it worked quickly and flawlessly... I am now up and running with my new drive - have an M Cable Card with Cablevision and the Tuning adapter, and so far so good.. I got the lifetime service for $299 - so now I have turned in my crappy Sci Atl. Cable DVR that I have been paying 16.99 a month for and my whole investment should pay off in less than two years... I have not had the setup for long enough to comment on the cable card performance, etc, but will do so in that cablevision forum after I have some data to comment on..

THANK YOU
GOOD STUFF :up:


----------



## spocko

richsadams said:


> For my money (and time), I'd stay away from using Samsung drives with TiVo for now no matter how compelling the price.


Thanks for posting the results of your test. I was curious about that drive too.


----------



## lrhorer

richsadams said:


> It's like Groucho said..."I don't want to join a club that will accept me as a member". But of course you're welcome. Just be careful not to let anyone else know who you're associating with.


I told the other forum members not to feed you or you would just keep coming back. See what happened?


----------



## MPSAN

lrhorer said:


> I told the other forum members not to feed you or you would just keep coming back. See what happened?


Funny, on a Ham Radio Forum I am on My Avatar says "Do Not Feed The Trolls"!


----------



## richsadams

lrhorer said:


> I told the other forum members not to feed you or you would just keep coming back. See what happened?


Strays are the same wherever you go.


----------



## moscovitzd

I got two Tivo HDs for my Dad. Is there any value in installing 1.5 TB drives internally in a Tivo HD? I'm trying to decide between 1 TB and 1.5 TB drives and he does not want external. 

Thank you!


----------



## richsadams

moscovitzd said:


> I got two Tivo HDs for my Dad. Is there any value in installing 1.5 TB drives internally in a Tivo HD? I'm trying to decide between 1 TB and 1.5 TB drives and he does not want external.
> 
> Thank you!


Congrats on the new TiVo's!

Everything you need to know is included in the first post of this thread. Section IV, #30 is specifically what you're looking for.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Strays are the same wherever you go.


OK, be that way! See if we ever go to LO for dinner and a Play again!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> OK, be that way! See if we ever go to LO for dinner and a Play again!


Ha! When I said "strays" I was actually referring to myself.  Saaayyyy...do I know you?  You don't have to admit it here of course...but P.M. me if so. I might have to give out legit advice to someone that knows where I live.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Ha! When I said "strays" I was actually referring to myself.  Saaayyyy...do I know you?  You don't have to admit it here of course...but P.M. me if so. I might have to give out legit advice to someone that knows where I live.


OH, I am not sure...although a good friend who worked for me at FJ in Hillsboro, and now is at Sun lives in LO. We used to go out on his boat, too.

MPSAN...aka Dave


----------



## bkdtv

Maybe we could move off-topic posts to PM? 

This thread is meant specifically for discussion of expansion and upgrades. It makes it harder for people to find answers when there's discussion unrelated to that topic.


----------



## MPSAN

bkdtv said:


> Maybe we could move off-topic posts to PM?
> 
> This thread is meant specifically for discussion of expansion and upgrades. It makes it harder for people to find answers when there's discussion unrelated to that topic.


Yup, sorry, I know better.


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> OH, I am not sure...although a good friend who worked for me at FJ in Hillsboro, and now is at Sun lives in LO. We used to go out on his boat, too.
> 
> MPSAN...aka Dave


Small world. But not small enough...just passing ships in the night I guess. Always glad to meet someone that owns a boat though.


----------



## Ckought

How to install a second hard drive inside a TiVoHD.

I will skip the parts about removing the current hard drive from the TiVo and using WinMFS to configure and join the two drives; both are covered in other places. This will focus on the hardware aspect of installing a second hard drive inside the TiVoHD.

I got the idea from a previous poster that used screws and washers on the bottoms of the drives. This is all the same concept; it just looks cleaner (and may be somewhat more durable). I havent tried it, but once the two drives are attached I wouldnt think that that anything short of beating them with a hammer would break them apart.

Parts list (see photo 1):
2 SATA cables
1 SATA power splitter cable
1 6/32 bolt, long enough to cut into 2 smaller pieces
1 Torx T10 Screwdriver
1 Multi-purpose cutter/stripper (with 6/32 bolt cutter)
1 Needle-nose pliers

Step 1: Cut two pieces off the bolt (see photo 2). Youll need to look at your hard drives to determine the lengths needed since pretty much every drive model is different. One should be short enough to be able to be screwed into one of the drives until its flush with the outside of the drive. The second one should be long enough to bottom-out in the drive and still have about a ¼-inch sticking out (see photos 3).

Step 2: Use pliers to screw the two bolts into place. One should be flush with the outer wall of the drive and one should be sticking out (see photo 4).

Step 3: Screw the bolt that is sticking out of the first drive into the second drive by turning the drives counter to each other until they are tight against each other (see photo 5).

Step 4: Use the pliers to turn the other bolt so that it threads into the second hard drive (see photo 6).

Step 5: Mount the drive back onto the TiVo bracket (see photo 7). Mount the bracket back into the TiVo (see photo 8). Attach all cables (see photo 9).

I realize that this is not very in-depth and expects the user to have a familiarity with the equipment, but I figure if you dont then you shouldnt be opening the case in the first place.

Everyone should feel free to correct, expand, or improve this how-to.


----------



## Ckought

Photos 1 - 5

Photo 1 








Photo 2 








Photo 3 








Photo 4 








Photo 5


----------



## drhankz

None of your photos are showing up for me unless I copy 
and past the Photo Link into a sperate browser window. 

None of your links end with a .jpg - I think these bulletin 
boards will only display photos if the files is a real JPG File


----------



## Ckought

Photos 6 - 9

Photo 6 








Photo 7 








Photo 8 








Photo 9


----------



## Ckought

BTW -- I upgraded all four of my TiVoHDs this way with no problem.


----------



## moxie1617

Ckought said:


> How to install a second hard drive inside a TiVoHD.
> ...............


I was expecting double sided tape or the good stuff, duct tape, but this is very professional. Good job.

How did it effect the internal temperature of the Tivo with both drives in place?


----------



## Ckought

I don't know what the normal temp is (I did this as soon as I got them), but they're running at 40C - 50C (depending on the ambient temp).


----------



## moxie1617

My S3 runs at 46-47 with ambient temp of 73f. So 40-50 sounds good. My old S1 DirecTivo has been running at 53-56 for the past 5 years.


----------



## drhankz

Ckought said:


> Photos 6 - 9


There we GO - PRETTY Pictures


----------



## richsadams

Ckought said:


> How to install a second hard drive inside a TiVoHD.
> 
> <snip>


Nice job...thanks for that. It reminds me of my old Series1 days...but a little more elegant. Well done. :up:


----------



## Ckought

Thanks everyone for the nice words. You should've seen the look on my wife's face when I was laying it all out on the coffee table and taking pictures as I did it. It was one of those "God, you're a geek sometimes" looks.

I knew I wanted to put a second internal drive in my TiVoHDs; I didn&#8217;t want the extra cable, power cord, or box sitting by the TV. So when I looked around on the site and saw how someone else did it, I knew it could be done &#8211; but using the screws and washers (although probably quite study) looked precarious. I thought about it for a couple days, but everything I came up with was too complicated (modifying PC drive brackets and stuff like that). Then it just kinda hit me &#8211; if the TiVoHD drive bracket attached to the bottom of the drive, then why not just screw the two drives directly together using the side holes? Of course, my first thoughts on that were getting complicated too (fabricating bolts with opposite direction threads on each end). Eventually, through necessity (I couldn&#8217;t fabricate brackets or custom bolts and I couldn&#8217;t afford to have it done . . . and I wanted something that anyone else could do themselves) I came up with something that would work using common parts that could be found at any hardware store.


----------



## drhankz

Ckought said:


> I knew I wanted to put a second internal drive in my TiVoHDs; I didn't want the extra cable, power cord, or box sitting by the TV.


How about when you have a Purpose Built Theater and RACK Mount
Equipment. Having Two Internal Drives is a GOOD THING. Thanks 
for the Photos.

I'm a fan of Internal Versus External = Thanks Again Ckought


----------



## markj911

Western Digital has a new 2TB SATA drive that I have installed into my Series 3. I forced a service update to the latest rev and it still does not recognize the full storage limit. Is Tivo just slow in updating their OS for the new size drive?


----------



## bkdtv

markj911 said:


> Western Digital has a new 2TB SATA drive that I have installed into my Series 3. I forced a service update to the latest rev and it still does not recognize the full storage limit. Is Tivo just slow in updating their OS for the new size drive?


I guess you did not read the FAQ in he first post? ;(

Section V, FAQ #5:



> *What is the largest drive I can use for an internal upgrade?*
> 
> _Credit to spike -- the author of WinMFS -- for clarifying this subject._
> 
> With latest version of WinMFS, the maximum capacity allowed for the internal TiVo drive is 1.1 TB (1.0 TiB) *plus* the capacity of the original drive. Older tools cannot support drives larger than 1.1 TB.
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> [u]Model Number[/u]    [u]Maximum Usable Drive Size*[/u]
> Tivo HD       TCD652160       1.26 TB (1260 GB)
> Tivo HD XL    TCD658000       2.10 TB (2100 GB)
> TiVo Series3  TCD648250B      1.35 TB (1350 GB)
> 
> [size=1]* Drives with capacities larger than 1.1 TB are only supported when the latest version
> of WinMFS is used.  If you are using tools or a method other than those described below,
> then your drive must be 1.1 TB or smaller.[/size]
> 
> If you were to replace the built-in TiVo drive with a 2.0 TB drive, the full 2.0 TB would be usable on a TivoHD XL, but only 1.26 TB would be usable on the TivoHD.
> 
> Most with the TivoHD and TiVo Series3 opt to buy 1.0 TB drives, which provide a capacity of 157 HD hours.


----------



## jlib

So, if I have an already upgraded to 1TB S3 and wanted the very maximum capacity without going to a second (eSATA connected) drive I could use a 1.5GB drive for a second upgrade and WinMFS would automatically partition the new drive to the maximum from that chart (losing the balance of the 1.5TB)? And I could do this using current 1TB drive as source and not resorting to original drive, right?


----------



## richsadams

Noted that Newegg has the 1TB Western Digital WD10EADS on sale for $89.99. Use the $10 coupon code *EMCLTNS34* and it's $79.99 w/free shipping.

Note that this drive will NOT work as an internal hard drive upgrade for Series3's (due to a soft reboot issue), but will work as an internal hard drive upgrade with TiVo HD's or as an eSATA drive for either model.


----------



## MPSAN

bkdtv said:


> This thread is meant specifically for discussion of expansion and upgrades. It makes it harder for people to find answers when there's discussion unrelated to that topic.


I forgot to ask...did you see my idea in my post #3073 about a Hot Link Index for the Section Topics?


----------



## bkdtv

MPSAN said:


> I forgot to ask...did you see my idea in my post #3073 about a Hot Link Index for the Section Topics?


TiVoCommunity does not support any form of in-post linking, so what you ask is not possible. I agree that such a capability is highly desirable on a forum, as it significantly improves the usability of FAQs. You can request that that feature right here.

For others that don't know what I am talking about, you can see this post as an example. Note how the links at the top of the page "jump" to different sections. That is a feature that many would like to have on TCF.


----------



## MPSAN

bkdtv said:


> TiVoCommunity does not support any form of in-post linking, so what you ask is not possible. I agree that such a capability is highly desirable on a forum, as it significantly improves the usability of FAQs. You can request that that feature right here.
> 
> For others that don't know what I am talking about, you can see this post as an example. Note how the links at the top of the page "jump" to different sections. That is a feature that many would like to have on TCF.


OK, I will send the suggestion.

P.S. My 3 TiVoHD units came from UPS 5 Minutes ago, but I did not upgrade them yet! !


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> OK, I will send the suggestion.
> 
> P.S. My 3 TiVoHD units came from UPS 5 Minutes ago, but I did not upgrade them yet! !


It's a common HTML markup called "Anchors". I don't know that this version of the PHP forum program is capable of using them though (I suspect not), but a good idea.

It's Christmas in July! Um, June! Have fun opening your prezzies!


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> It's a common HTML markup called "Anchors". I don't know that this version of the PHP forum program is capable of using them though (I suspect not), but a good idea.
> 
> It's Christmas in July! Um, June! Have fun opening your prezzies!


OK...they missed my Birthday by 1 day. I will upgrade soon. Still not sure if the WD 1TB EVVS is just as good as the EVCS, but the EVVS, now, is a lot less $$$ than the EVCS. I assume the EVVS is 16 MB buffer which I guess is OK.


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Still not sure if the WD 1TB EVVS is just as good as the EVCS, but the EVVS, now, is a lot less $$$ than the EVCS. I assume the EVVS is 16 MB buffer which I guess is OK.


Just as good. The OEM hard drives only have 2MB of cache (which I've theorized may be the root of some problems, but that's neither here nor there) and TiVo can't or doesn't utilize much more anyway. 16MB's or even 32MB's of cache is overkill and unnecessary.

So enjoy and happy upgrading when you get to it!


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Just as good. The OEM hard drives only have 2MB of cache (which I've theorized may be the root of some problems, but that's neither here nor there) and TiVo can't or doesn't utilize much more anyway. 16MB's or even 32MB's of cache is overkill and unnecessary.
> 
> So enjoy and happy upgrading when you get to it!


Thanks Rich. I have seen the WD10EVVS advertised at 8MB and 16MB of cache buffer. However I do believe that it is 16MB. At any rate, they should be at the $90 level...need my TiVo to get the new ver 11 software and Cable Cards...then I will order one drive!


----------



## jlib

Rich meant to type 8MB for the WD10EVVS.


----------



## jlib

MPSAN said:


> Thanks Rich. I have seen the WD10EVVS advertised at 8MB and 16MB of cache buffer. However I do believe that it is 16MB.


There is no 16MB cache WD10EVVS. Go to the source.


----------



## MPSAN

jlib said:


> There is no 16MB cache WD10EVVS. Go to the source.


Provantage, ZipZoomFly, Buy.com and Memory4less claim 16MB. At any rate, 8 should be enough.


----------



## jlib

MPSAN said:


> Provantage, ZipZoomFly, Buy.com and Memory4less claim 16MB....


They also claim 7200rpm. 
But yes, you are right, 8MB is fine. It is what TiVo specs on their newest HD XL model.


----------



## markj911

bkdtv said:


> I guess you did not read the FAQ in he first post? ;(
> 
> Section V, FAQ #5:


I did not see that before I bought the drive. What is troubling is that it only sees 320GB not the 1.1TB max. Any ideas?


----------



## richsadams

markj911 said:


> I did not see that before I bought the drive. What is troubling is that it only sees 320GB not the 1.1TB max. Any ideas?


 Where are you seeing any hard drive size measurement on TiVo at all? TiVo only estimates recording time in HD or SD in hours. Or are you referring to what winMFS displayed?


----------



## bkdtv

markj911 said:


> I did not see that before I bought the drive. What is troubling is that it only sees 320GB not the 1.1TB max. Any ideas?


If the TiVo isn't reporting more than 143 HD hours on the System Information screen, then you need to reconnect the drive to your computer and select Mfsadd in WinMFS. When WinMFS asks you whether to restrict expansion to 1.1TB (1.0TiB), click yes.


----------



## markj911

bkdtv said:


> If the TiVo isn't reporting more than 143 HD hours on the System Information screen, then you need to reconnect the drive to your computer and select Mfsadd in WinMFS. When WinMFS asks you whether to restrict expansion to 1.1TB (1.0TiB), click yes.


I used InstantCake is there a way to do that with InstantCake or do I need to obtain WinMFS?


----------



## bkdtv

markj911 said:


> I used InstantCake is there a way to do that with InstantCake or do I need to obtain WinMFS?


InstantCake doesn't support drives larger than than 1.1TB (1.0TiB). You need to use WinMFS.

I think you may have to redo the upgrade from scratch if you tried to use InstantCake on a drive larger than 1.1TB. I'm not certain. Hopefully, you still have the original TiVo drive lying around.


----------



## markj911

bkdtv said:


> InstantCake doesn't support drives larger than than 1.1TB (1.0TiB). You need to use WinMFS.
> 
> I think you may have to redo the upgrade from scratch if you tried to use InstantCake on a drive larger than 1.1TB. I'm not certain. Hopefully, you still have the original TiVo drive lying around.


Thanks! I wish the original drive was usable, it exhibited the 'click of death' I do not see anywhere on the DVRupgrade site about bringing a 1TB up to a recognized 1TB by the Series III. Does Instantcake do that automatically or do you need WinMFS?


----------



## moscovitzd

Thanks Rich. I'm willing to spend the extra $ for the 1.5 TB drives knowing that I'll only get 1.26 of usable space. Does anyone have a suggestion for what hard drive model to use on a TivoHD?


----------



## richsadams

moscovitzd said:


> Thanks Rich. I'm willing to spend the extra $ for the 1.5 TB drives knowing that I'll only get 1.26 of usable space. Does anyone have a suggestion for what hard drive model to use on a TivoHD?


The WD15EADS should work fine in your TiVo HD (but not a Series3). Just make sure you only expand the drive to the appropriate amount in winMFS. If you expand it fully it won't work.

Also note that the WD15EADS isn't an AV/DVR drive and will need to have the Automatic Acoustic Management (AAM) dialed down to 128 to make it as quiet as possible. You can use the Hitachi Feature Tool to do that.


----------



## bkdtv

markj911 said:


> Thanks! I wish the original drive was usable, it exhibited the 'click of death' I do not see anywhere on the DVRupgrade site about bringing a 1TB up to a recognized 1TB by the Series III. Does Instantcake do that automatically or do you need WinMFS?


InstantCake is supposed to correctly expand any drive up to 1.1TB in size. I know it doesn't support >1.1TB drives, but I don't recall whether it tries to use the full capacity of the drive (which will cause instability) or whether it uses the stock amount.

How much capacity does your TiVo Series3 report on the System Information screen? If it reports 30 something hours, or 140 something hours, then I think you can expand to the full 1.35TB with WinMFS.



moscovitzd said:


> Thanks Rich. I'm willing to spend the extra $ for the 1.5 TB drives knowing that I'll only get 1.26 of usable space. Does anyone have a suggestion for what hard drive model to use on a TivoHD?


AFAIK, the WD15EVDS is coming in ~4 weeks. If you want something right now, you might look at the WD15EADS and Seagate ST31500541AS.

If it were me, I would probably wait on the WD15EVDS. Newegg's reviews on the WD15EADS make me a little uneasy.


----------



## richsadams

bkdtv said:


> If it were me, I would probably wait on the WD15EVDS. Newegg's reviews on the WD15EADS make me a little uneasy.


Good advice as well.


----------



## hansende

I just bought a $170 1TB Western Digital DVR Expander from Amazon and it arrived today. I unplugged my Series 3 Tivo "with software version 11.0C), connected the wire between the units, plugged in the Expander, waited 15 seconds, then plugged in the Tivo. In Setting i...External Storage it says and external storage device was not detected! So I repeated the above steps and it still can't see the device. Any thoughts about what I should do?


----------



## richsadams

hansende said:


> I just bought a $170 1TB Western Digital DVR Expander from Amazon and it arrived today. I unplugged my Series 3 Tivo "with software version 11.0C), connected the wire between the units, plugged in the Expander, waited 15 seconds, then plugged in the Tivo. In Setting i...External Storage it says and external storage device was not detected! So I repeated the above steps and it still can't see the device. Any thoughts about what I should do?


The order sounds right...

1. Connect the eSATA cable to the drive and TiVo
2. Power up the eSATA drive (wait 10 seconds or so for it to spin up)
3. Power up TiVo and follow the on-screen instructions

It doesn't sound like the eSATA drive and TiVo are communicating initially as it isn't asking you if you want to add the external drive when you first boot up. (This screen should appear.)

First, is the drive spinning up? Can you hear seek noise (clicking)? If it is I'd then check the eSATA cable and connections to be sure they're secure, even try reversing the cable.

If it's spinning up and the connections are snug you could try using the menus to add it but it also sounds like you've already gone down that road. If all of that is true my WAG would be that it's either a bad cable or a bad enclosure, specifically the bridge/chip set.

IIRC a couple of other folks had trouble with their Western Digital 1TB My DVR Expanders recently and had to return them. The same thing happened when they first introduced the 500GB version. Back then most of the issues were with the sub-standard eSATA cables that were included with the units. WD finally got their act together, but IIRC it took several months. You could try another cable. The recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable is about $12 or you may need to return it to Amazon and have them ship a new drive.


----------



## hansende

Thanks Rich for the very helpful insight! The WD esata drive's circular light is on and I can hear it spinning inside. So I turned everything off and reversed the 3' cable and still "no worko" (After the "THX" display the Tivo main menu comes up) Before I send it back I will buy a esata cable from a nearby Radio Shack (they allow full refunds) and try that out. I will let you (and others) know the outcome. Update!!!! I just went over to check the Tivo and the Update message came on!!! So maybe it was the cable connection as you stated!!


----------



## richsadams

hansende said:


> Update!!!! I just went over to check the Tivo and the Update message came on!!! So maybe it was the cable connection as you stated!!


Working now?


----------



## Joe3

As we tell our children, it always pays to study.

Warning-Weekend Discovery

If you have a busted FAP enclosure drive, rip out the Seagate Hard drive and put it in an MX1 enclosure to see if it works before you turn it into a Popsicle by sticking it in the freezer. 

It just might be the bridge. I found out hundreds of hours late while waiting for the 1.5TB 5900RPM 32MB Cache SATA II/300 to arrive from PROVANTAGE. Nevertheless, I am happy to report that whatever Seagate Hard dive is in the FAP seems to handle extreme temperatures well. 

The 1.5TB 5900RPM 32MB Cache SATA II/300 seems to be doing well so far in the S3. I had to put my ear to the TiVo to actually here it. Unless I am losing my hearing and I could be, the 1.5TB 5900RPM 32MB Cache SATA II/300 is quieter than what I took out of the S3. 

So, the ripped out Seagate Hard drive that I put in the MX1 enclosure gave me back the original extra 750 GB plus the 1.5 GB internal leaves me with about a 1TB more than what I needed plus 3.3 in outside the TiVo archive hard drive space so you can understand my alert. 

In backing up what I thought was a failing hard drive using kmitt and restoring it to the new hard dive using Pytivo I lost my entire whish-list created folders by actor or director. Since it's going to take some days before the restore is complete at a 13 to 15--transfer rate I was wondering. 

Question: is there any way to get back or redo those whish-list folders that I lost in the transfer?

Thanks 

Joe


----------



## richsadams

Joe3 said:


> As we tell our children, it always pays to study.
> 
> Warning-Weekend Discovery
> 
> If you have a busted FAP enclosure drive, rip out the Seagate Hard drive and put it in an MX1 enclosure to see if it works before you turn it into a Popsicle by sticking it in the freezer.


This earlier post said the same thing; FAP eSATA drive failed, pulled the drive, stuck it in an MX-1 and all was right with the world once more. Good advice. :up:


----------



## hansende

richsadams said:


> Working now?


Yes!! Thanks again Rich. It must have been the cable connection. I turned the cable around and it has been working for a couple of days now.


----------



## richsadams

hansende said:


> Yes!! Thanks again Rich. It must have been the cable connection. I turned the cable around and it has been working for a couple of days now.


Woo hoo!


----------



## Josh

Kind members & gurus,

I've read hundreds of posts here and the FAQ and have what I believe to be a simple clarification before I break out the Torx screwdrivers.

I have a TivoHD with a replacement Weaknees 1TB drive in it, purchased from them. Single drive. I now wish to add a MyDVR Expander 1TB and know that it doesn't work out of the box, but needs pairing.

The FAQ clearly points me in this situation to Section IV, item #10. The instructions there seem pretty clear, however Weaknees, who have always been helpful to me in the past (I've bought about 8 different drives from them over the years), is telling me that these tools (WinMFS, MFS Tools) can NOT be used if you have a TivoHD... that it won't work right. (They want to sell me their $95 upgrade process).

Is this correct?? Can someone confirm that my TivoHD with a single (replacement) Weaknees 1TB internal drive can be paired easily with the 1TB myDVR Expander by pulling the internal drive, connecting it and the DVRExpander to a PC via Sata->USB2 adapters and then using WinMFS command MFSadd? or, in my situation, do I need to go to the MFSLive Boot CD and issue the command "mfsadd -r 4 -x /dev/sda /dev/sdb", as described in that section of the FAQ? Sorry if these are obvious questions... been trying for many hours to answer these questions on my own and can't find this particular situation described - a larger replacement internal drive with a MyDVR Expander external drive (rather than a plain vanilla empty SATA drive), all on a TivoHD.

I'm not bothered at all by performing my own upgrade, nor by pulling out drives and getting them connected to a PC, I just want to make sure I won't brick my Tivo, lose my recordings, nor do any other permanent harm.

Thank you very much for your guidance and help. 

--josh


----------



## jlib

Josh said:


> ... Weaknees, who have always been helpful to me in the past (I've bought about 8 different drives from them over the years), is telling me that these tools (WinMFS, MFS Tools) can NOT be used if you have a TivoHD... that it won't work right. (They want to sell me their $95 upgrade process)...


Is this something they told you on the phone or do you have an email snippet you can post?


----------



## mskvarenina

Wow, this thread is 105 pages long. Is the drive information dated from 2007 current or are the current drive recommendations buried somewhere within this thread? Is there a wiki somewhere which is constantly updated? At this point I have a Series 3 that I'd like to upgrade the internal hard drive and am looking for drives that have been tested and proven.


----------



## bkdtv

mskvarenina said:


> Wow, this thread is 105 pages long. Is the drive information dated from 2007 current or are the current drive recommendations buried somewhere within this thread? Is there a wiki somewhere which is constantly updated? At this point I have a Series 3 that I'd like to upgrade the internal hard drive and am looking for drives that have been tested and proven.


The first post is the "wiki." It was last updated June 21, 2009.

The first post does list some older models, but it also lists newer models too. The Seagate and Western Digital 1TB drives are new. Every drive listed works with the Series3.


----------



## DixonAgee

OK. I have an S3 drive - upgrading to WD10EVVS. I attached them to SATA connectors in a newer Dell Desktop. I logged in as the Administrator on an XP SP2 machine. I started WimMFS - and found both drives. (no drive letters as promised). I started MFSCopy and the progress bar began filling. Expecting to take a few hours - I returned later to find the computer sleeping - and MFSCopy stopped with 47 mins 29 secs ETA. I assumed that screen saver or power management may have done this - and since I couldn't get the progress bar moving again - I canceled and closed the copy - turned off Screen Saver and Power Management and re-started MFSCopy. Same thing - the progress bar went about 1/4 to 1/3 of the way - the ETA stopped at 47 mins 29 seconds. 

I left it to run for over 4 hrs noting that your documentation said it could take 3 Hrs.. However XP NEVER said WINMFS wasn't responding - it just wasn't showing progress. The drives seemed to be running - I could hear the stepping motor ...

One more thing - I had cleaned a lot of stuff off the TIVO and removed deleted programs before this process. The drive was not full.

So - any ideas? Should I try a different computer? I got no error messages - just a program that went into limbo.


----------



## JerseyRU

To all who contributed, thanks for the FAQ. I just upgraded to a 1TB WD10EADS in a TivoHD.

Used an older Dell desktop with an SATA to usb cable, and it took me under 1 hour from Tivo shutdown to the start up movie, running great for about 2 hours now.



DixonAgee said:


> So - any ideas? Should I try a different computer? I got no error messages - just a program that went into limbo.


Only suggestion I have would be to try the one drive at a time method. Use WinMFS, make a backup on your laptop drive, then shutdown, connect the newer use WinMFS to get the backup from the other drive. This portion of my setup took me under 10 minutes per drive.


----------



## DixonAgee

JerseyRU said:


> Only suggestion I have would be to try the one drive at a time method. Use WinMFS, make a backup on your laptop drive, then shutdown, connect the newer use WinMFS to get the backup from the other drive. This portion of my setup took me under 10 minutes per drive.


Thanks for the suggestion - I suspect it may work considering how the early part of 'copy' seemed to work.

My main concern: would I be able to copy my recordings later - or would those be 'lost'?


----------



## dlfl

JerseyRU said:


> ......... I just upgraded to a 1TB WD10EADS in a TivoHD.
> Used an older Dell desktop with an SATA to usb cable,........
> Only suggestion I have would be to try the one drive at a time method. Use WinMFS, make a backup on your laptop drive, then shutdown, connect the newer use WinMFS to get the backup from the other drive. ......


Cool! That exact drive and a USB-SATA cable are in shipment to me from Amazon at this moment, for my TiVo HD.

Question: Do you have to do anything in the WinFMS software to make the TiVo use the larger capacity of the TB drive?


----------



## bkdtv

dlfl said:


> Question: Do you have to do anything in the WinFMS software to make the TiVo use the larger capacity of the TB drive?


Just follow the instructions in *Section V* of the first post and you're good.

As per step #18, WinMFS will ask you if you want to expand the drive to use the new space. You click yes.


----------



## bkdtv

DixonAgee said:


> Thanks for the suggestion - I suspect it may work considering how the early part of 'copy' seemed to work.
> 
> My main concern: would I be able to copy my recordings later - or would those be 'lost'?


If you do a truncated backup and restore, as per the instructions in 18A, you preserve all your settings (including season passes and wishlists), but you lose your previous recordings.

If you want to use 18B to backup your recordings too, make sure you temporarily disable any antivirus or security software. As noted in the FAQ, some antivirus and security programs will interfere with the backup process. Usually, such software only slows the copy, but in some cases, it may prevent the copy from completing. If you've already disabled any software that you think could interfere, and you really want to backup and restore all your recordings, then I would try a different computer.


----------



## KevinSartori

I just wanted to pop in here to say thanks! I upgraded my TiVo HD with a Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EACS 1TB drive back in December and everything has been running perfectly! The process went smoothly using the upgrade directions at the beginning of this thread. Around the same time I also discovered pyTivo. What a combo!

Anyway, thanks again for all the effort *bkdtv* and *richsadams*! Your work here is much appreciated!


----------



## HerronScott

DixonAgee said:


> OK. I have an S3 drive - upgrading to WD10EVVS. I attached them to SATA connectors in a newer Dell Desktop. I logged in as the Administrator on an XP SP2 machine. I started WimMFS - and found both drives. (no drive letters as promised). I started MFSCopy and the progress bar began filling. Expecting to take a few hours - I returned later to find the computer sleeping - and MFSCopy stopped with 47 mins 29 secs ETA. I assumed that screen saver or power management may have done this - and since I couldn't get the progress bar moving again - I canceled and closed the copy - turned off Screen Saver and Power Management and re-started MFSCopy. Same thing - the progress bar went about 1/4 to 1/3 of the way - the ETA stopped at 47 mins 29 seconds.
> 
> I left it to run for over 4 hrs noting that your documentation said it could take 3 Hrs.. However XP NEVER said WINMFS wasn't responding - it just wasn't showing progress. The drives seemed to be running - I could hear the stepping motor ...
> 
> One more thing - I had cleaned a lot of stuff off the TIVO and removed deleted programs before this process. The drive was not full.
> 
> So - any ideas? Should I try a different computer? I got no error messages - just a program that went into limbo.


DixonAgee,

I had something similar happen with one of my 2 Series 3 units. WinMFS would hang during the full copy but I was able to do a truncated backup and restore. At some point during the multiple attempts to do a full copy, the original drive registered a SMART error that the PC would report on boot and although it would still work when plugged back into the TiVo, any attempts to do a full copy with WinMFS or run the Western Digital diagnostics against it would hang.

Scott


----------



## richsadams

HerronScott said:


> DixonAgee,
> 
> I had something similar happen with one of my 2 Series 3 units. WinMFS would hang during the full copy but I was able to do a truncated backup and restore. At some point during the multiple attempts to do a full copy, the original drive registered a SMART error that the PC would report on boot and although it would still work when plugged back into the TiVo, any attempts to do a full copy with WinMFS or run the Western Digital diagnostics against it would hang.
> 
> Scott


Somehow I missed Dixon's post completely. I agree, it is likely data corruption and/or a bad sector if the copy is freezing at the exact same place each time.

Recordings that are not copy protected could be transferred to a computer via TiVo Desktop, etc., but it's likely that a full copy won't work and a simple image transfer will have to do (Section V, #18A).


----------



## richsadams

KevinSartori said:


> I just wanted to pop in here to say thanks! I upgraded my TiVo HD with a Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EACS 1TB drive back in December and everything has been running perfectly!


Good feedback and welcome to the club! :up:


----------



## outcastja

Hello, I'm new to the forum and have a n00b question.

I read the FAQ and had a questions about this step:



> Shut down Windows, turn off your computer, and connect only the original TiVo drive. You can open your computer and connect it with a SATA cable, or you can connect it externally with a SATA->USB adapter or a drive dock.


Can I use the external SATA hard drive enclosure to connect the Tivo drive and my replacement to the computer? I would like to avoid opening my computer to connect those drives.

Any info is appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## bkdtv

outcastja said:


> Can I use the external SATA hard drive enclosure to connect the Tivo drive and my replacement to the computer? I would like to avoid opening my computer to connect those drives.


If you install the hard drive in that external enclosure, and you have the means to connect that enclosure to your computer, then yes, you can.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Somehow I missed Dixon's post completely. I agree, it is likely data corruption and/or a bad sector if the copy is freezing at the exact same place each time.
> 
> Recordings that are not copy protected could be transferred to a computer via TiVo Desktop, etc., but it's likely that a full copy won't work and a simple image transfer will have to do (Section V, #18A).


Rich, although it can take a while, it may be worth formatting the new 1TB drive in Windows to see if it fixes any sector errors. Not sure if NTFS or FAT32 matters...just see if a full format works. Then WinMFS may do a copy if the drive is now OK.

Just a thought.


----------



## spocko

Thanks to bkdtv for maintaining this great guide!

Some suggestions related to AAM in faq #31:

- It should mention that Hitachi Feature Tool doesn't support external drives connected via USB/firewire.

- An alternative tool worth mentioning is hddscan. This tool runs under windows and it does support some USB-connected drives.

http://hddscan.com/

My experience is that I have 2 different brands of external USB drives, buth using WD drives, and hddscan allowed me to change the AAM setting on both. Strangely is does not allow me to change features on my internal drives (an IDE Maxtor, and a SATA WD). HFT on the other hand does support my internal drives, but not the USB ones.


----------



## spocko

KevinSartori said:


> I just wanted to pop in here to say thanks! I upgraded my TiVo HD with a Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EACS 1TB drive back in December and everything has been running perfectly!


Good to hear another confirmation, thanks. I'm upgrading a THD with a WD10EACS today.


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Rich, although it can take a while, it may be worth formatting the new 1TB drive in Windows to see if it fixes any sector errors. Not sure if NTFS or FAT32 matters...just see if a full format works. Then WinMFS may do a copy if the drive is now OK.
> 
> Just a thought.


First the problem is most likely with the TiVo drive not the new drive. Even though it works if the copy is freezing at exactly the same point each time it's almost certainly a problem with the OEM drive as the new drive would not use the exact same sectors every time.

And just to be clear, Do NOT mount a TiVo drive in Windows. If you use the disk management included in Windows XP or Vista to mount the drive the Tivo Bootpage will be erased. If that happens there are tools to fix it so it's not a total loss but if you format the drive the image will be useless.

There are programs available like Spinrite that will attempt to repair bad sectors, but the cost is pretty high...about as much as a new hard drive. If the new drive is suspected it is not worth trying to repair it at all as it will more than likely have problems later as well. Best bet is to return the new drive for a replacement.

If there is an issue with the TiVo drive it might be worth trying TiVo's built-in diagnostics called Kickstarts to see if things can be resolved.


----------



## MPSAN

Rich, I thought his issue was with the NEW Drive and not the OEM drive in the TiVo. I would never suggest "messing" with the original drive!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Rich, I thought his issue was with the NEW Drive and not the OEM drive in the TiVo. I would never suggest "messing" with the original drive!


Of course not, but there are folks that will follow and might think "Hey, that sounds like a good idea...it should work on my TiVo drive too...I'll try it!" 

The odds of the failure happening at the same point every time being caused by the new drive are really low. Each time a drive is formatted and data is transferred different sectors are used based on head position, existing data/sectors used, any number of factors. That's why I think it's probably the TiVo drive that has an issue.

The same scenario pops up now and then when someone tries to transfer a recording from TiVo to their computer. The transfer fails at the exact same point every time. Although the recording seems to play on TiVo just fine, more often than not if the recording is carefully viewed you can usually see some brief glitch in the playback at the exact place the transfer stopped. That indicates some sort of data corruption. TiVo's error correction can overcome the problem, but during a bit-for-bit transfer the "glitch" can be fatal.

Again, if there is a problem with the new hard drive it's not worth dealing with IMO and it should be returned.


----------



## MPSAN

Well, it just depends on a bad sector being marked during low level formatting. If it was OK at the time of the factory format, and then shipped as being good, it could have a bad sector that would show up in the same place every time if it went bad after. A low level format can fix that. Some drive vendors do let you get to the low level format...I believe that WD and Seagate did. Not sure if the utils are still available online. Anyway, I guess the safest thing to say at this point is "never mind". New drives have plenty of bad sectors that are skipped during a factory format. You never know that they are there...and usually never neet to.


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Well, it just depends on a bad sector being marked during low level formatting. If it was OK at the time of the factory format, and then shipped as being good, it could have a bad sector that would show up in the same place every time if it went bad after. A low level format can fix that. Some drive vendors do let you get to the low level format...I believe that WD and Seagate did. Not sure if the utils are still available online. Anyway, I guess the safest thing to say at this point is "never mind". New drives have plenty of bad sectors that are skipped during a factory format. You never know that they are there...and usually never neet to.


All good points. In my experience running servers and such (and even with my own computers), if I found a new hard drive with even minor issues and used it I always lived to regret it. Now I just give them back. Although these days it's not nearly as big a problem as it once was. QC has gotten much better even as the drives have gotten bigger...or maybe because of it...I've no idea.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> All good points. In my experience running servers and such (and even with my own computers), if I found a new hard drive with even minor issues and used it I always lived to regret it. Now I just give them back. Although these days it's not nearly as big a problem as it once was. QC has gotten much better even as the drives have gotten bigger...or maybe because of it...I've no idea.


Yes...a little of both. Since the drives are now so big, there had to be a way of marking bad sectors...or even multi sectors and still ship the drive. Way back in the days of the first PC drives (5MB) they would just scrap them. As the capacity grew to 10MB and 20MB and even 40MB, they would find that a surface had too many bad sectors and just sell it as a 20MB drive...ie: they only made 40MB, etc and sold it depending on the number of good surfaces...or heads. On main frames, it was even worse, but then there were disk packs that you would change.

Anyway, enough about this. Anything further about my "work" would have to be a PM...one of your neighbors used to work for me.  I was involved in Hard Drives when they first started and have made 45 trips to Japan in the process. I have seen so many improvements over the decades! Anyway, Hard Drives are actually what brought me from CA up to your area.


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Yes...a little of both. Since the drives are now so big, there had to be a way of marking bad sectors...or even multi sectors and still ship the drive. Way back in the days of the first PC drives (5MB) they would just scrap them. As the capacity grew to 10MB and 20MB and even 40MB, they would find that a surface had too many bad sectors and just sell it as a 20MB drive...ie: they only made 40MB, etc and sold it depending on the number of good surfaces...or heads. On main frames, it was even worse, but then there were disk packs that you would change.
> 
> Anyway, enough about this. Anything further about my "work" would have to be a PM...one of your neighbors used to work for me.  I was involved in Hard Drives when they first started and have made 45 trips to Japan in the process. I have seen so many improvements over the decades! Anyway, Hard Drives are actually what brought me from CA up to your area.


I've always wondered if having more "real estate" on HDD platters allowed for more variations such as bad sectors to be passed through. Seems that the manufacturing process has improved markedly as well...perhaps thanks to some of your hard work.

I also remember being so excited about buying a "huge" 540MB HDD (for about a $1/MB IIRC) and thinking I'd never need more space than that...ever. Ah, the good 'ol days.


----------



## moonscape

i got a WD10EVCS from buy.com to upgrade my S3 and it arrived, box within a much larger box, rattling around with zero packaging. couldn't believe it.

although i know it's wise to check a drive in any case, i definitely need to w/ this one but have never done this so forgive my ignorant question!

would doing diagnostics via WD tools the best way to go? if yes, is the 'diagnostics for windows' at http://support.wdc.com/product/download.asp?groupid=610&lang=en what i want? - i don't need to do this in DOS, right?

i'll be doing the upgrade via usb/esata cable if that makes any difference.

is there another diagnostic i should be doing or which would be better to use?

thanks!


----------



## MPSAN

moonscape said:


> i got a WD10EVCS from buy.com to upgrade my S3 and it arrived, box within a much larger box, rattling around with zero packaging. couldn't believe it.
> 
> although i know it's wise to check a drive in any case, i definitely need to w/ this one but have never done this so forgive my ignorant question!
> 
> would doing diagnostics via WD tools the best way to go? if yes, is the 'diagnostics for windows' at http://support.wdc.com/product/download.asp?groupid=610&lang=en what i want? - i don't need to do this in DOS, right?
> 
> i'll be doing the upgrade via usb/esata cable if that makes any difference.
> 
> is there another diagnostic i should be doing or which would be better to use?
> 
> thanks!


Yes, let the drive warm up for a bit and you can use the WD tools to do a surface scan of the whole drive. In that way, any errors will be reported.

Some of the Software will not let you do all of the operations like a low level format, but you should just run the tests to verify that the drive surfaces are OK. OH and I have used both Windows and a self booting CD. Just be aware, that some of the DOS diagnostics will not "see" an HDD connected to USB, SATA, or eSATA ports, so Windows versions should be better in that respect.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> I've always wondered if having more "real estate" on HDD platters allowed for more variations such as bad sectors to be passed through. Seems that the manufacturing process has improved markedly as well...perhaps thanks to some of your hard work.
> 
> I also remember being so excited about buying a "huge" 540MB HDD (for about a $1/MB IIRC) and thinking I'd never need more space than that...ever. Ah, the good 'ol days.


Price...I remember my first HDD as being 20MB and costing about $400! I am glad the TiVo 1TB drives are not $20/MB. 
OH, remember the LBA discussions? I could never make people believe that the 20 bit addressing vs. 20 bit LBA did NOT make drives go from 128MB to 160MB! LBA only let you access the 160 MB capacity already there instead of the Cylinder Head Sector limits in 20 bits! But this is even more OT than we already are!

Anyway, I need to read some more stuff on my 3 TiVo HD's as I am looking for a few features that even my ReplayTV's have that the TiVo seems to be missing!


----------



## moonscape

MPSAN said:


> Just be aware, that some of the DOS diagnostics will not "see" an HDD connected to USB, SATA, or eSATA ports, so Windows versions should be better in that respect.


The WD diagnostic utility isn't seeing the USB-attached drive. It's showing up in USB Controllers w/ a yellow exclamation in device manager. I deleted that, rebooted, reattached drive, but get the same. What am I doing wrong?


----------



## MPSAN

moonscape said:


> The WD diagnostic utility isn't seeing the USB-attached drive. It's showing up in USB Controllers w/ a yellow exclamation in device manager. I deleted that, rebooted, reattached drive, but get the same. What am I doing wrong?


It means that the USB driver has not been installed in Windows, but are you using XP? SP3? Try a reboot with the USB drive attached and ON. It should say found new hardware. The driver should be installed before you did this at all and wonder if you ever had it installed. Are you using one of those USB to SATA convertors? If so, and you would have to if you are using the SATA drive, then you should have a driver for the adapter.


----------



## moonscape

MPSAN said:


> Price...I remember my first HDD as being 20MB and costing about $400!


Yeah -I remember going from 20MB to 60MB and nearly passing out from joy.

My first computer was an Osborne Executive luggable - about $2-2.5K if I recall, which was an incredible fortune for me at the time - running CP/M w/ a teeny-tiny green or amber screen. It was a big deal, not being techie at all (got it for business reasons) and having but a handful of female friends w/ a computer period. When I got my Netcom account there were so few women on the internet I had to quickly change my nick to something gender-vague because I was bombarded w/ emails. Funny times.


----------



## moonscape

MPSAN said:


> It means that the USB driver has not been installed in Windows, but are you using XP? SP3? Try a reboot with the USB drive attached and ON. It should say found new hardware. The driver should be installed before you did this at all and wonder if you ever had it installed. Are you using one of those USB to SATA convertors? If so, and you would have to if you are using the SATA drive, then you should have a driver for the adapter.


The drivers for the adapter are only for Mac and 98 - it says XP (I'm running SP2) can support w/out drivers and none are included on the CD. Computer didn't boot w/ HD attached but I'll try again. I know I'm doing something stupid - but there's a first time for everyone and this is my time!


----------



## moonscape

I was booting on a slower desktop and wasn't patient enough. It did boot but showed up as 'unknown device' - didn't show up in disk management or in WD diagnostics utility. What do I need to do for it to be recognized?

I tried on my notebook which is much faster (but which I didn't want to tie up for this and the upgrade) but get the same thing.

I'm using these - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E6NGBU/ref=ox_ya_oh_product - got 2 for the upgrade.

Dang. I either downloaded or got rid of 75% of my Tivo pgms to make the upgrade faster and was/am all ready to go but don't know what I'm doing wrong.


----------



## MPSAN

moonscape said:


> Yeah -I remember going from 20MB to 60MB and nearly passing out from joy.
> 
> My first computer was an Osborne Executive luggable - about $2-2.5K if I recall, which was an incredible fortune for me at the time - running CP/M w/ a teeny-tiny green or amber screen. It was a big deal, not being techie at all (got it for business reasons) and having but a handful of female friends w/ a computer period. When I got my Netcom account there were so few women on the internet I had to quickly change my nick to something gender-vague because I was bombarded w/ emails. Funny times.


Well, we used to live in Saratoga and went to Santa Cruz and Pacific Grove often. I ran CP/M as well with ...are you ready...ZCPR! I had this on an Apple][+ and my CM/M card was from a little known company called Microsoft. I wonder whatever happened to them? 

P.S. I still have that stuff too!


----------



## MPSAN

moonscape said:


> The drivers for the adapter are only for Mac and 98 - it says XP (I'm running SP2) can support w/out drivers and none are included on the CD. Computer didn't boot w/ HD attached but I'll try again. I know I'm doing something stupid - but there's a first time for everyone and this is my time!


That is because Win98 did not support USB. Do you have other USB drives (perhaps for backup)? I ask as the MoBo BIOS should have an entry to enable USB. Does My Computer show anything? Perhaps WinMFS will see it. I hope the plugs are correct as these adapters end up with wires all over the place!

Also, if you do have a SATA controller on your PC MoBo, you could turn off the PC and add this new drive and see if it can be seen by Windows. This would be a good test as SOME of these USB to IDE/SATA converters have chip sets that only see a max of a 750GB drive. Do you have another drive that you can test in that converter...something less that 750GB?


----------



## moonscape

MPSAN said:


> That is because Win98 did not support USB. Do you have other USB drives (perhaps for backup)? I ask as the MoBo BIOS should have an entry to enable USB. Does My Computer show anything? Perhaps WinMFS will see it. I hope the plugs are correct as these adapters end up with wires all over the place!
> 
> Also, if you do have a SATA controller on your PC MoBo, you could turn off the PC and add this new drive and see if it can be seen by Windows. This would be a good test as SOME of these USB to IDE/SATA converters have chip sets that only see a max of a 750GB drive. Do you have another drive that you can test in that converter...something less that 750GB?


I use USB drives regularly, the largest 500GB - is that what you're asking? I'm not sure if my desktop has a SATA controller or not - it's about 4 years old I think - and maybe I'll open up the computer tomorrow and see. Right now I'm burnt - and sure I must be doing something very basic and stupid. No, I've no other drive to test w/ the converter - this is the first bare drive I've ever bought because I've used almost exclusively notebooks for 25 years. The desktop is just here as a backup I use maybe once/month.

I should be able to connect the bare drive to the cable, boot, and see the drive as something other than an unknown device w/out needing additional drivers, right? and without formatting or installing the drive to do that?

If that's the case, maybe I'll try to see if WinMFS will see it as you suggested. But if it does, then I'm going ahead w/out knowing the integrity of the drive. Would that be a Bad Thing? How long would it take for problems to show up if there is any issue w/ the drive?


----------



## richsadams

moonscape said:


> If that's the case, maybe I'll try to see if WinMFS will see it as you suggested. But if it does, then I'm going ahead w/out knowing the integrity of the drive. Would that be a Bad Thing? How long would it take for problems to show up if there is any issue w/ the drive?


It's likely winMFS will see the drive even though you can't get it to show up in WD Lifeguard.

Use the new drive at your own risk of course, but I'm always amazed at how much physical abuse they can take in shipment. The heads are parked at the time so it would take a pretty hard blow to do some damage and even then it would be of the not spinning up variety. Since there's nothing touching the platters when it's disconnected nothing should have happened to them. If you were to drop it while it's running (head crash) that would be a whole other story.

Hopefully this isn't your delivery guy...

Special Delivery


----------



## moonscape

richsadams said:


> Hopefully this isn't your delivery guy...
> 
> Special Delivery


Too funny - well not. I've got UPS packages that resembled tha

Going to try the upgrade now - and hope winMFS sees the drive and all goes well. If there's a drive issue I always have the old one to plop back in - but I'd hope it shows up before it's loaded w/ non-transferable movies, etc.

But after all, it's only TV!


----------



## MPSAN

I had thought that XP could not even see it. If a 500GB USB drive works, then XP should not have a driver issue...if the chipset on the converter supports 1TB drives. Not sure if XP does not see it, or if it just does not know what it is. WinMFS would be a good test to see if it sees it. If it does see the whole 1TB, then it is not the converter.

OH, Rich, the heads always crash when you power down. They go to a Landing Zone. Another big argument...is it better to go to a dedicated LZ, or let them fall where they last were used? A dedicated LZ (as on the WD) can be argued that the heads keep landing in the same spot!


----------



## moonscape

WinMFS sees the Tivo drive just fine, but not the WD.

I did have the same WD drive I bought last year (yeah I know, I know) that I never got around to putting into the S3. I recently got a HD and so another drive so to upgrade both. So - I dug out the drive from last year (still unpackaged believe it or not) and tried that one. Also not recognized.

The cables I have got great reviews and people did upgrade their Tivos w/ them - so now I'm stumped. 

Any ideas or do I just put my Tivo drive back and sleep on it?

Ack.


----------



## bkdtv

moonscape said:


> WinMFS sees the Tivo drive just fine, but not the WD.
> 
> I did have the same WD drive I bought last year (yeah I know, I know) that I never got around to putting into the S3. I recently got a HD and so another drive so to upgrade both. So - I dug out the drive from last year (still unpackaged believe it or not) and tried that one. Also not recognized.
> 
> The cables I have got great reviews and people did upgrade their Tivos w/ them - so now I'm stumped.


If you are connecting two drive to your a computer at the same time, how is this second drive connected? Are the TiVo and new drive connected in exactly the same way?

If you are connecting each drive in a different way, are you able to connect the replacement drive using the same method (and connection / port) as the TiVo drive? Have you tried rebooting your computer with the drive connected?

I assume you've confirmed that the drive is running (i.e. it has power). Some people do not realize that they need a second cable for power.


----------



## moonscape

Both drives are connected via USB/sata cables to two ports. Tivo drive shows up on port that WD didn't. Yes, both WD drives have had power (I could hear them on but touched just to make sure.)

And yes, I've rebooted so many times my computer/s are dizzy.


----------



## bkdtv

moonscape said:


> Both drives are connected via USB/sata cables to two ports. Tivo drive shows up on port that WD didn't. Yes, both WD drives have had power (I could hear them on but touched just to make sure.)
> 
> And yes, I've rebooted so many times my computer/s are dizzy.


Have you tried using the USB/SATA adapter from the TiVo drive with the WD drive? It is possible that one of the USB/SATA adapters is defective.

I would turn off your computer and connect the WD drive to the USB/SATA adapter previously used by the TiVo. Now turn on your computer again and launch WinMFS as an administrator. If you don't see the drive, reboot your computer again without touching the connections.

If that still doesn't work, then -- with only the new WD replacement drive connected -- see if Windows' Disk Administrator can see it. You can find that under Control Panel -> Administrative Tools -> Computer Management.


----------



## moonscape

Okay, this is weird. 

I switched the cables as you suggested, and booted 2x with only the WD connected. WinMFS saw it neither time.

But - before, I was getting 'unknown device' which was an improvement over the yellow exclamation point! Now it shows up in device mgr as 'mass storage device' and says it's working properly. That's an inexplicable first, but WinMFS still didn't see it.

After those 2 tries, I booted again w/ both drives connected and WinMFS saw the Tivo drive again (different cable, different port) but still not the WD.


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> OH, Rich, the heads always crash when you power down. They go to a Landing Zone. Another big argument...is it better to go to a dedicated LZ, or let them fall where they last were used? A dedicated LZ (as on the WD) can be argued that the heads keep landing in the same spot!


Good point/question. Lucky (for us anyway) TiVo never powers down so the drive is working 24/7. I was always of the belief that more damage is done powering a drive down and up again than just leaving it running due to head issues as you mention plus the continual spin up power spikes, etc. There will always be a debate, but for my money leaving drives on and alone has worked best over the years.


----------



## richsadams

moonscape said:


> Okay, this is weird.
> 
> I switched the cables as you suggested, and booted 2x with only the WD connected. WinMFS saw it neither time.
> 
> But - before, I was getting 'unknown device' which was an improvement over the yellow exclamation point! Now it shows up in device mgr as 'mass storage device' and says it's working properly. That's an inexplicable first, but WinMFS still didn't see it.
> 
> After those 2 tries, I booted again w/ both drives connected and WinMFS saw the Tivo drive again (different cable, different port) but still not the WD.


I don't know if this will help, but I suddenly remembered that during an upgrade (can't remember if it was the S3 or THD...doesn't really matter I don't think) that my PC also didn't see a drive while using a SATA/USB adapter. I was going to use MFS Copy to create the new drive and save my recordings. I was using an older computer I built and it only had two SATA ports on the motherboard and one was being used by the OS hard drive.

I had one drive connected directly to a SATA port on the MB and the other with the USB/SATA adapter. WinMFS didn't see the drive that was connected to the adapter. So I swapped them and everything was fine. I think you may have tried that, but I just dawned on me that the same thing happened to me once, so it's not unheard of.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Good point/question. Lucky (for us anyway) TiVo never powers down so the drive is working 24/7. I was always of the belief that more damage is done powering a drive down and up again than just leaving it running due to head issues as you mention plus the continual spin up power spikes, etc. There will always be a debate, but for my money leaving drives on and alone has worked best over the years.


Yes, my ReplayTV's are still running. I do turn our PC's off each night. Lots of reasons and keeping them running is another argument!

To add more stuff to consider...having the heads "hit" when they land can also knock off any small "rocks" that may be starting to accumulate! 

*moonscape* you need to tell us what finally works. It seems like you do not have a driver issue, etc. XP sees it but does not know what to do with it. Will Disk Management in Control Panel Admin. Tools allow you to try a format of the NEW 1tb DRIVE? I assume there is nothing on that drive. A right click may let you see if the partition is active. If disk management will let you "work" with it, you may be able to make it an active drive. I am NOT talking about Device Manager here, but Disk Management. What do you see in Disk Management?


----------



## moonscape

MPAN - Rich - bkdtv - thanks so much for your input and suggestions.

Incredibly, I spent all day on this so finally gave up for now. Tivo is back together, WDs tucked away, and I'll regroup tomorrow or Tuesday and let you know what I find.

MPAN - I literally LOL when I read 'you need to tell us what finally works' since it was having zero clue what to do next that made me throw up my hands and just put the drives away and the box back together! Then I saw questions I can actually try to answer and that'll be motivation to bring 'em out again. W/out that, I'd be stuck with a 250 drive forever. And, I have the HD one to upgrade which is even smaller.

Thanks again, and watch this space


----------



## MPSAN

moonscape said:


> MPAN - Rich - bkdtv - thanks so much for your input and suggestions.
> 
> Incredibly, I spent all day on this so finally gave up for now. Tivo is back together, WDs tucked away, and I'll regroup tomorrow or Tuesday and let you know what I find.
> 
> MPAN - I literally LOL when I read 'you need to tell us what finally works' since it was having zero clue what to do next that made me throw up my hands and just put the drives away and the box back together! Then I saw questions I can actually try to answer and that'll be motivation to bring 'em out again. W/out that, I'd be stuck with a 250 drive forever. And, I have the HD one to upgrade which is even smaller.
> 
> Thanks again, and watch this space


Great and you can leave the TiVo alone 'til you get XP to recognize the 1TB drive! I am waiting to see what the XP Storage-Disk Management thinks of the WD Drive! What does it report?


----------



## jlib

richsadams said:


> I don't know if this will help, but I suddenly remembered that during an upgrade (can't remember if it was the S3 or THD...doesn't really matter I don't think) that my PC also didn't see a drive while using a SATA/USB adapter. I was going to use MFS Copy to create the new drive and save my recordings. I was using an older computer I built and it only had two SATA ports on the motherboard and one was being used by the OS hard drive.
> 
> I had one drive connected directly to a SATA port on the MB and the other with the USB/SATA adapter. WinMFS didn't see the drive that was connected to the adapter. So I swapped them and everything was fine. I think you may have tried that, but I just dawned on me that the same thing happened to me once, so it's not unheard of.


That is interesting. But even if it may be that older computers only had 2 SATA ports (moonscape mentions his is a somewhat older computer) and, as the Sabrent docs mention, the adapter bridges the USB to a SATA port (the bootdrive using the other), shouldn't it have worked when he connected the suspect drive to the known working adapter? Anyway, definitely interested in what the resolution is, if any. I think the the laptop method is looking better and better...

It might be worth browsing through the BIOS setup program and look for any settings related to SATA or Plug'n'Play. Good Luck!


----------



## richsadams

jlib said:


> That is interesting. But even if it may be that older computers only had 2 SATA ports (moonscape mentions his is a somewhat older computer) and, as the Sabrent docs mention, the adapter bridges the USB to a SATA port (the bootdrive using the other), shouldn't it have worked when he connected the suspect drive to the known working adapter?


For me it was one of those "WTH?" moments but of course I was happy it worked and didn't go any further with it. FWIW the adapter I have is fairly generic, no brand name, made in China. Pretty sure it's this one.

Agreed...it should have worked when he connected the drive to the known working adapter.


----------



## bkdtv

I added section linking to the first post. This should make FAQ navigation much easier / faster.

This change was made possible by forum administrators, who added this capability last Thursday.


----------



## richsadams

bkdtv said:


> I added section linking to the first post. This should make FAQ navigation much easier / faster.
> 
> This change was made possible by forum administrators, who added this capability last Thursday.


Excellent! Nice work and continued thanks for all of your efforts! :up: :up: :up:


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Excellent! Nice work and continued thanks for all of your efforts! :up: :up: :up:


+1


----------



## moonscape

Somehow I knew I wouldn't get out of this w/out feeling like an idiot.

I just tried one of the WD drives on my notebook - again - and this time it showed up. Historically I haven't used administrator, but do use Credential Mgr w/ this HP - mostly for fingerprint site logins - and just forgot. So now my notebook sees the drive. Woot!

Still have no explanation for the desktop as that's not an issue on that one, but will try in a couple of hours when I open up the Tivo again. Hate tying up my notebook (have about 75GB to transfer) - but it is faster than the desktop and hope it won't take too long.

Still curious about the desktop though, and after you guys' counseling investment you deserve to know. We know XP SP2 isn't the issue though for sure.

Thanks again - and hopefully the rest will go smoothly. I had nightmares of two 1TB drives gathering dust in the closet. Reminded me of when pyTivo stopped working on my older notebook. Stopped. Dead. Got so much humanitarian help trying to get it back up but after weeks of trying everything imaginable gave up. Wouldn't work on notebook or desktop. Got this new notebook and it was up in minutes. 

I don't know why every computer tech person on the planet doesn't have ulcers.


----------



## moonscape

Update: WD now shows up on desktop and I have no idea why. There's nothing different from yesterday that I can figure. All I did was boot, same as before - and WinMFS sees it.

I was stupid on the notebook side, clueless what the difference is w/ the desktop though.


----------



## DixonAgee

bkdtv said:


> If you do a truncated backup and restore, as per the instructions in 18A, you preserve all your settings (including season passes and wishlists), but you lose your previous recordings.
> 
> If you want to use 18B to backup your recordings too, make sure you temporarily disable any antivirus or security software. As noted in the FAQ, some antivirus and security programs will interfere with the backup process. Usually, such software only slows the copy, but in some cases, it may prevent the copy from completing. If you've already disabled any software that you think could interfere, and you really want to backup and restore all your recordings, then I would try a different computer.


Thanks - this is very helpful. I think the simplest solution is to find a different computer to use as my copy machine.


----------



## MPSAN

moonscape said:


> Update: WD now shows up on desktop and I have no idea why. There's nothing different from yesterday that I can figure. All I did was boot, same as before - and WinMFS sees it.
> 
> I was stupid on the notebook side, clueless what the difference is w/ the desktop though.


Yeah, Sure...I bet you went out and bought a new Desktop! 
Actually, did you power off the old desktop since we last met?


----------



## richsadams

moonscape said:


> Update: WD now shows up on desktop and I have no idea why. There's nothing different from yesterday that I can figure. All I did was boot, same as before - and WinMFS sees it.


Glad to hear things are "normal" now. :up:


----------



## moonscape

MPSAN said:


> Yeah, Sure...I bet you went out and bought a new Desktop!
> Actually, did you power off the old desktop since we last met?


Yeah, it slept last night, but yesterday I had booted and rebooted so many times...

So - the desktop saw the WD but then didn't see the Tivo drive, after yesterday the reverse. Rather than drive myself nuts trying to dx it, I did the upgrade on my notebook which worked fine. Woot! When the time comes to upgrade the HD (waiting a couple of months to make sure no issues w/ the box) I'll probably be curious enough to try on the desktop again, but at least I have an easier path now 

bktv - your FAQ/instructions are awesome - and the links are great!

Thanks much for your suggestions and help, all - you're the best!


----------



## Clentz

moonscape said:


> Yeah, it slept last night, but yesterday I had booted and rebooted so many times...
> 
> So - the desktop saw the WD but then didn't see the Tivo drive, after yesterday the reverse. Rather than drive myself nuts trying to dx it, I did the upgrade on my notebook which worked fine. Woot! When the time comes to upgrade the HD (waiting a couple of months to make sure no issues w/ the box) I'll probably be curious enough to try on the desktop again, but at least I have an easier path now
> 
> bktv - your FAQ/instructions are awesome - and the links are great!
> 
> Thanks much for your suggestions and help, all - you're the best!


Sonetimes computers need to be completly powered down, rather than just rebooting.

Carl


----------



## MPSAN

Clentz said:


> Sonetimes computers need to be completly powered down, rather than just rebooting.
> 
> Carl


+1


----------



## spocko

spocko said:


> I'm upgrading a THD with a WD10EACS today.


Just wanted followup and say that my upgrade went very smoothly following the instructions in the first post. Thanks guys!

I had a Fantom "Green" 1TB external drive that I wasn't using. It contained a WD10EACS. I opened the case, pulled out that drive to use in my Tivo HD, and used the enclosure as a USB-to-sata converter. It worked like a charm, and it was nice that I didn't even have to open my PC. I am now happily cruising along with 157 HD hours of capacity. Yippee! :up::up::up:

The only thing that I had to do differently from the FAQ was to use hddscan to adjust the AAM setting on the drive rather than the Hitachi Feature Tool.

I will also add that I'm impressed with the build quality of the Tivo HD box after opening it up. It seems to be put together pretty well.


----------



## dlfl

spocko said:


> ........The only thing that I had to do differently from the FAQ was to use hddscan to adjust the AAM setting on the drive rather than the Hitachi Feature Tool.........


I believe several people have installed WD10EADS drives. I'm wondering how important the AAM setting thing is? How noisy is it without doing it? Is there a concern that the reduced performance could be a problem?


----------



## richsadams

dlfl said:


> I believe several people have installed WD10EADS drives. I'm wondering how important the AAM setting thing is? How noisy is it without doing it? Is there a concern that the reduced performance could be a problem?


Adjusting the AAM down to 128 takes the seek noise from about 27/28 dBA to about 24/25 dBA which is equal to the recommended WD10EVVS or WD10EVCS AV GP drives. (By comparison many stock HDD's have seek noise of 32 dBA or higher.) So it really depends on TiVo's location and your sensitivity to noise. Folks that have them in their bedrooms would probably benefit the most.

There is no negative performance impact to TiVo when the AAM is adjusted to 128. As mentioned an AAM of 128 meets the same specs as the DVR dedicated HDD's.

By comparison:

Weakest sound heard - 0dB
Whisper Quiet Library - 30dB
Normal conversation (3-5') - 60-70dB
Telephone dial tone - 80dB
City Traffic (inside car) - 85dB
Train whistle at 500', Truck Traffic - 90dB
Subway train at 200' - 95dB
Level at which sustained exposure may result in hearing loss - 90 - 95dB
Power mower at 3' - 107dB
Snowmobile, Motorcycle - 100dB
Power saw at 3' - 110dB
Sandblasting, Loud Rock Concert - 115dB
Pain begins - 125dB
Pneumatic riveter at 4' - 125dB
Loudest recommended exposure WITH hearing protection - 140dB
Jet engine at 100', Gun Blast - 140dB
Death of hearing tissue - 180dB
Loudest sound possible - 194dB (equal to my neighbor's dog barking at 3 a.m.)

TiVo's run pretty darn quiet.


----------



## jlib

In addition, humans can easily distinguish differences of ~3dB so the change is worthwhile (assuming you can hear the head seeks of a stock drive). The WD GP series are actually relatively quiet in normal mode compared to conventional drives of just a year ago. 

The TiVo is such an unchallenging application for a modern hard drive that there is no performance degradation in attenuating the head seek aggressiveness. Even with two recordings and another simultaneous playback the hard drive is just waiting around for something to do the majority of the time. The drive can read and write much faster than the Tivo can process. Visualize the Tivo filling up buffers and drive emptying them in an instant and then just idling waiting for something to do. Alternately, the drive fills buffers in an instant and then waits for the TiVo to process the stream.


----------



## dlfl

Thanks, Rich and jlib,

I was surprised to learn that TiVo puts such small demands on the HDD.

Does 128 for AAM mean the same thing in hddscan as in the Hitachi tool?

Looks like the FAQ could be updated (Sect. IV, #31) to include the hddscan tool. Looks like it is also easier to use than the Hitachi.


----------



## jlib

dlfl said:


> ...Does 128 for AAM mean the same thing in hddscan as in the Hitachi tool?...


The 128 isn't a vendor specific or arbitrary value. AAM is part of the ATA/ATAPI-6 specification that most drives conform to since the early century. The 128 actually refers to a hexadecimal value (80h) in a persistent register in the firmware. Since we have a hard time thinking in hex, user utilities translate the 80h to decimal 128. That is probably more than you wanted to know but it means that every utility's 128 refers to the same value.


Code:


[U]Level [/U]                                [U]Sector Count Value[/U]

Maximum performance level                FEh
Intermediate acoustic management levels  81h-FDh
Minimum acoustic emanation level         80h


----------



## musictoo

Trying to backup my internal 250 and external 750 from my S3. The external was added using kick start 62. When the pc boots, I can get part info and pdisk info for all 3 disks, but when I go to run the backup command:

backup -qTao - /dev/sda /dev/sdb | restore -s 128 -zpi - /dev/sdc

I get the following error:

Backup: /dev/sda10: Success.
To attempt backup anyway, try again with -E. -s is implied by -E

Am I doing something wrong?


----------



## HD4me2

After spending many hours over the past several days reading posts here, a few suggestions:

Get Speedfan a free windows program actively maintained by the author. While basically a motherboard monitor, it does have a SMART interrogation function. Moreover the author maintains a database of thousands of HDD's for comparison. A link on the speedfan SMART function will take the user to that database allowing comparison of the user's drive 'health' to like drives in the database.

I recently tested an old 80GB WD SATA drive and found the sector re-allocation count had reached 2550. This is close to the limit for that size drive. When the limit is reached the drive will fail.

When the SMART function is invoked the SMART parameters are displayed and the 2 bars on the bottom depict 'fitness' and 'performance''.

SATA brackets, my 2 Gigabyte motherboards a P35 and P45, both included a SATA bracket with 2 SATA ports and a power port and a 8 inch molex to SATA power cable that plugs into the power port on the bracket. The power port is essentially the standard 4 pin molex. As depicted in another post these can be purchased from etailers like Newegg.

About 2 years ago I purchased a TIVO HD and experienced the 'video loss' problem reported on a thread (now closed) by many users on this forum. Returned the TIVO and cancelled the subscription after 2 weeks, too much trouble while my Sony HDD250 was (and still is) working perfectly.

Returning to this forum several weeks ago it appears that problem was finally fixed, after *nine* months. 
Now a TIVO HD is en route by UPS and expected tomorrow, so ready to take the plunge again.

BTW 2 years ago I did use winmfs to create a larger drive. Instead of installing it in the TIVO, disconnected the internal drive and connected the external drive, lying behind the TIVO to the TIVO internal SATA connections. Good way to test. Worked perfectly.

Finally, my compliments to bkdtv. Your posts here and on the avsforum are a goldmine of info. Not to slight the experienced posters like richsadams, keep it up guys.


----------



## MPSAN

The Active Hard Disk Monitor works well. I have used it several times but do not often run it.


----------



## richsadams

HD4me2 said:


> After spending many hours over the past several days reading posts here, a few suggestions:


Some good ideas. :up: And welcome back to the family!


----------



## lrhorer

bkdtv said:


> I added section linking to the first post. This should make FAQ navigation much easier / faster.


Oh, cool. I think I see how it is implemented. One creates an "aname" tag for a link location, then one can sprinkle "jumpto" tags throughout the post to take the user instantly to the link location, right?


----------



## lrhorer

moonscape said:


> I don't know why every computer tech person on the planet doesn't have ulcers.


No, I did hear about one somewhere who doesn't. For the rest of us, it's pretty much a given.


----------



## lrhorer

richsadams said:


> Adjusting the AAM down to 128 takes the seek noise from about 27/28 dBA to about 24/25 dBA which is equal to the recommended WD10EVVS or WD10EVCS AV GP drives.


Note that a 3dB change in audio level is considered barely perceptible to human ears. An actual doubling of audio intensity is about 7dB, but human ears are non-linear, so a psychoacoustic doubling of audio intensity is about 10dB. At the threshold, however, 3dB can make the difference between "barely audible" and "inaudible".


----------



## bkdtv

lrhorer said:


> Oh, cool. I think I see how it is implemented. One creates an "aname" tag for a link location, then one can sprinkle "jumpto" tags throughout the post to take the user instantly to the link location, right?


Correct.

I would redo the other FAQ too, except TCF still maintains an eight-image-per-post limit.


----------



## lrhorer

Has anyone heard anything further on the release date for 3TB hard drives? I still have about 1.5T free on my RAID server, and that should hold me for a few more months. I also have two slots left on the RAID chassis, so if need be I can buy a 1T drive or two in the mean time, but it would be very nice if the 3T drives were out and falling a bit in price before I had to spend any more on 1T drives. At a minimum of about 11.5 cents per G, the 2T drives are still a bit pricey compared to about 7.9 cents per G for a 1.5T drive or as little as 7.4 cents per G for a 1T drive, but they are not outrageous. Of course, instead of 3T drives, I could purchase twice as many 1.5T drives and save a good little bit of cash, but the extra $1200 or so for a RAID chassis and additional drive controller should easily be offset by the premium for the 3T drives, given the much smaller number of drives to be purchased initially.


----------



## richsadams

lrhorer said:


> Has anyone heard anything further on the release date for 3TB hard drives? I still have about 1.5T free on my RAID server, and that should hold me for a few more months. I also have two slots left on the RAID chassis, so if need be I can buy a 1T drive or two in the mean time, but it would be very nice if the 3T drives were out and falling a bit in price before I had to spend any more on 1T drives. At a minimum of about 11.5 cents per G, the 2T drives are still a bit pricey compared to about 7.9 cents per G for a 1.5T drive or as little as 7.4 cents per G for a 1T drive, but they are not outrageous. Of course, instead of 3T drives, I could purchase twice as many 1.5T drives and save a good little bit of cash, but the extra $1200 or so for a RAID chassis and additional drive controller should easily be offset by the premium for the 3T drives, given the much smaller number of drives to be purchased initially.


Show off.


----------



## Michael Gwynn

richsadams said:


> Show off.


snicker.... so true!

however, when 'pc archaeologists' read this post 100 years from now (or even 100 months from now), they'll still be amused, but for a different reason.


----------



## bellaireroad

Hello to all. Hopefully someone can answer a couple of questions for me. 

1) Is TIVO based on LINUX?

2) IF #1 is true, can ghost for linux (G4L) be use to clone the drive, and gparted be used to expand the data partition

3) Why the limitation for the internal drive size , is this a limitation of the bios?


----------



## lrhorer

richsadams said:


> Show off.


Hey, I have yet to find anyone else who will blow my horn, so if I don't do it, no one will! 

I do really want to know about the 3T drives, though. If I buy 2T drives, I'll just wind up replacing all of them sooner rather than later. With 3T drives, I'm pretty sure I can put together large enough arrays to last me several years.


----------



## lrhorer

bellaireroad said:


> Hello to all. Hopefully someone can answer a couple of questions for me.
> 
> 1) Is TIVO based on LINUX?


Yes.



bellaireroad said:


> 2) IF #1 is true, can ghost for linux (G4L) be use to clone the drive


Probably not, but I don't know for certain. Most such utilities balk at unknown partition types.



bellaireroad said:


> and gparted be used to expand the data partition


Definitely not. There is not a single data partition, and gparted hasn't a clue about MFS partitions. Read through the first post in this thread. WinMFS and MFS_Live both do the job admirably and quickly, relatively speaking.



bellaireroad said:


> 3) Why the limitation for the internal drive size , is this a limitation of the bios?


No. The TiVo does not really have a BIOS, in the way you are thinking of it. The S3 TiVo is limited to 2.2 TB by the fact it employs a 32 bit file system (MFS). The THD is currently limited by a bug in the 3rd party tool sets used to upgrade the drives. I'm not sure what the THD XL's limit is at this point, but I think it is much higher than the THD. I expect probably 4T or so.


----------



## richsadams

lrhorer said:


> The THD is currently limited by a bug in the 3rd party tool sets used to upgrade the drives.


I thought the TiVo kernel has a bug that wont let it work with partitions larger than 1TB? Also isn't MFS a Linux/Apple hybrid of sorts (or is that a bit redundant)?


----------



## lrhorer

richsadams said:


> I thought the TiVo kernel has a bug that wont let it work with partitions larger than 1TB?


Yes, but even if we limit the drive to 16 partitions (there's some question in my mind whether this is a real limitation, or not), and pair the application and media regions, that still leaves up to 3TB for the internal drive. I'm not sure what the limitations on an external drive are in terms of the maximum number of partitions.



richsadams said:


> Also isn't MFS a Linux/Apple hybrid of sorts (or is that a bit redundant)?


I don't really know what the structure is. The first partition on a TiVo drive is an Apple partition, but I don't know any of the details of the MFS partitions.


----------



## brettatk

I've been away from the upgrade scene the last few years. My previously upgraded Tivo HD (WD10EACS) has started locking up about once a day so I'm guessing it's a hard drive issue. Just purchased the WD10EADS from ZipZoomFly for $89.99 with $15 mail in rebate. Hopefully I'll be able to transfer all recordings and settings once it arrives. Only the 3rd problem I've ever had with any of my Tivo's and a new drive has always taken care of the problem. Hopefully the result will be the same this time.


----------



## richsadams

Noted that the 1TB Fantom Green Drive is $79.99 AR w/free shipping at buy.com through July 15th. Several TCF folks are successfully using it as an expansion drive.

NOTE: Please read the first post of this thread for detailed applications and options. in particular, Section IV, "Unsupported External Drives" .


----------



## richsadams

Noted that newegg.com has the 1TB WD10EADS drive on sale for $89.99 less $10 with promo code *EMCLVMR33* making it $79.99 w/free shipping.

NOTE: This drive is good for internal upgrades to TiVo HD's only and does NOT work in TiVo Series3's due to a soft reboot issue. It will work as an eSATA drive (with an enclosure) with either model. See the first post on this thread for more upgrade details.


----------



## HD4me2

The TivoHD arrived last Friday along with a WD expander (500GB).
Setup went smoothly. Luckily, my brain was able to retrieve the Tivo knowledge acquired in 2007. That, along with the extensive reading of posts on the TCF, avoided the need to read the manual.

Acronis Trueimage, installed on my computers, has a special backup function, sector by sector copy. The next time The Tivo needs to be powered down, I will make a backup of the WD and restore to a spare WD 1 TB green drive - WD10EAVS, and boot the Tivo with that drive connected in place of the WD expander. Sector copy does not care about file formats, partitons etc. I will first boot to PCLinuxOS 2009 on this computer and examine the 1TB drive to see what if any info shows up.

Should be an interesting experiment, but no plan to use winmfs untill the Tivo warranty expires.

If any posters know if this has been tried, let me know.

BTW, found a copy of winmfs on another computer, the one used to expand the Tivo (returned at that time) in 2007.


----------



## jlib

HD4me2 said:


> ...Should be an interesting experiment, but no plan to use winmfs until the TiVo warranty expires...


Your warranty expires as soon as you open the case to do your experiment.


----------



## HD4me2

jlib said:


> Your warranty expires as soon as you open the case to do your experiment.


Yes I know. The experiment only involves the WD expander. No need to open the Tivo or the expander. Just plug the expander into one of the ESATA ports on the computer and make the backup.


----------



## richsadams

HD4me2 said:


> The TivoHD arrived last Friday along with a WD expander (500GB).
> Setup went smoothly. Luckily, my brain was able to retrieve the Tivo knowledge acquired in 2007. That, along with the extensive reading of posts on the TCF, avoided the need to read the manual.
> 
> Acronis Trueimage, installed on my computers, has a special backup function, sector by sector copy. The next time The Tivo needs to be powered down, I will make a backup of the WD and restore to a spare WD 1 TB green drive - WD10EAVS, and boot the Tivo with that drive connected in place of the WD expander. Sector copy does not care about file formats, partitons etc. I will first boot to PCLinuxOS 2009 on this computer and examine the 1TB drive to see what if any info shows up.
> 
> Should be an interesting experiment, but no plan to use winmfs untill the Tivo warranty expires.
> 
> If any posters know if this has been tried, let me know.
> 
> BTW, found a copy of winmfs on another computer, the one used to expand the Tivo (returned at that time) in 2007.


 I'm all for trying new things but I'm confused by the nature of your experiment and I'm afraid you'll be disappointed with the results because as outlined you've made some incorrect assumptions.

First thing to know is that when an expansion drive is connected TiVo stripes recordings across both drives, essentially handling the internal and external drives as one large hard drive.

Secondly TiVo recognizes external hard drives by the exact hard drive model number. Having a bit-for-bit copy of the external drive's data would only be useful in an exact drive replacement.

In addition TiVo HD's and HDXL's only accept WD's 500GB and 1TB My DVR Expander eSATA drives via plug and pray. Using any other eSATA drive requires pulling the internal hard drive and employing one of the MFS programs to marry the two. (Most people simply replace the TiVo HD's internal hard drive instead).

Hope that helps and perhaps saves some time!


----------



## HD4me2

> Secondly TiVo recognizes external hard drives by the exact hard drive model number. Having a bit-for-bit copy of the external drive's data would only be useful in an exact drive replacement.


Aware of that. That is why it is an experiment.
Really do not expect that to succeed but no harm in trying..
BTW before I married the WD expander, the WD 1Gb was tried and as expected the "drive not supported message' appeared..

Call me nuts, but experimenting is the spice of life.


----------



## richsadams

HD4me2 said:


> Aware of that. That is why it is an experiment.
> Really do not expect that to succeed but no harm in trying..
> BTW before I married the WD expander, the WD 1Gb was tried and as expected the "drive not supported message' appeared..
> 
> Call me nuts, but experimenting is the spice of life.


Okay, in that case, yes it's been tried a number of times over the past couple of years. There's a good deal of documentation about it on Spike's MFSlive.org's Forum.

But what the heck? Report back when you find time. :up:

Options = good.


----------



## bkdtv

Just about anything that could be tried, has been tried...at least 20x in the past 24 months.


----------



## lrhorer

bkdtv said:


> Just about anything that could be tried, has been tried...at least 20x in the past 24 months.


We're talking about TiVos aren't we, not sex?


----------



## richsadams

lrhorer said:


> We're talking about TiVos aren't we, not sex?


D'oh! Good one!


----------



## MPSAN

So, who is buying all the 1TB WD10EVVS/EVCS drives? They are OOS almost everywhere or a 2-4 week wait. I have had my TiVo HD's for several weeks now so it must be time to kill at least 1 of them!  I must live up to my SIG.

I know the WD10EADS will work in my THD ( have one in an MX-1 as an eSATA Backup to our PC's), and the egg has it cheap, but should I just wait? Perhaps the low volume of the EVxS will always make it more $$ than the EADS, but it is getting to be a bigger and bigger gap now!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> So, who is buying all the 1TB WD10EVVS/EVCS drives? They are OOS almost everywhere or a 2-4 week wait. I have had my TiVo HD's for several weeks now so it must be time to kill at least 1 of them!  I must live up to my SIG.
> 
> I know the WD10EADS will work in my THD ( have one in an MX-1 as an eSATA Backup to our PC's), and the egg has it cheap, but should I just wait? Perhaps the low volume of the EVxS will always make it more $$ than the EADS, but it is getting to be a bigger and bigger gap now!


I'd just go with the $79.99 WD10EADS. The architechture is almost identical and the differences won't make any difference to TiVo. The one thing that might make a difference to you personally, AAM, you can modify (de-tune to 128 for quieter seeks). So why wait? 

EDIT: Just noticed that if you use PayPal for the first time, Newegg will give you an additional $10 off...making the 1TB WD10EADS $69.99! Whadya waitin' for??


----------



## HD4me2

bkdtv said:


> Just about anything that could be tried, has been tried...at least 20x in the past 24 months.


Yes. true.
Recalling my experience in 2007 when I had to return a Tivo HD due to the repeated "total loss of video" problem and marrying and external drive via winmfs, I should know better.

My new Tivo HD and WD expander are running perfectly and exhibit none of the glitches and problems seen on many posts on this forum. So it seems prudent to leave well enough alone for now. 80 hours HD on the Tivo plus 40 hours HD on the HDD250 are more than enough for auto racing and golf tournaments.

BTW it seems bkdtv and bfdtv on the avsforum are the same person. On the avsforum, where I spent far more time, your FAQ's on the Tivo and dtvpal dvr are very helpfull. Thanks.

One last question, which thread is appropriate for Tivo to PC transfer problems. As yet most transfers start but fail to complete and that with a hardwired Gbit home network and a 4-core CPU loafing at < 10% transferring to a 1TB drive. Both Tivo desktop and kmttg behave this way. This happens with HD shows like CSI but not with the Tivo user lessons. And yes, the bkdtv FAQ has been read many times. Is it because I run on these on Vista 64 bit and on win7 RC 64 bit?. All on the same computer (wich boots 6 OS's using System Commander)


----------



## richsadams

HD4me2 said:


> One last question, which thread is appropriate for Tivo to PC transfer problems.


The folks over at the Home Media Features & TiVoToGo forum can be very helpful.

BTW, bkdtv and bfdtv are actually brothers...bfdtv is bkdtv's evil twin. Kidding.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> EDIT: Just noticed that if you use PayPal for the first time, Newegg will give you an additional $10 off...making the 1TB WD10EADS $69.99! Whadya waitin' for??


Do you mean use PayPal on NEWEGG for the first time? I may have to wait as I do not think I can get it in time. We may be gone next week!

OH, I see, they want a new PayPal account.


----------



## innocentfreak

Dell has a bunch of drive deals right now on the Western Digital Green and Black series. The 1TB Green drive came to $69.29 with free 2 day shipping before tax. I know some people have had luck with them on the Tivo HDs.

You can read more at slickdeals.


----------



## innocentfreak

Just a heads up for those looking for WD10EVVS, both buy.com and provantage have the drive back in stock. Provantage had 33 drives last time I checked and were $5 cheaper than buy.com but I know buy.com has free shipping.

[email protected] - 91.74 + shipping
[email protected] - 96.99 with FS


----------



## richsadams

innocentfreak said:


> Just a heads up for those looking for WD10EVVS, both buy.com and provantage have the drive back in stock. Provantage had 33 drives last time I checked and were $5 cheaper than buy.com but I know buy.com has free shipping.


Nice finds...thanks for keeping track. :up:


----------



## innocentfreak

Yeah I was surprised to find them in stock. I can't decide whether to buy them though since I have only had the Tivo HDs for 30 days. I am tempted to hold out for another month or two but as we creep towards the new fall season I may need to do it sooner rather than later.


----------



## richsadams

innocentfreak said:


> Yeah I was surprised to find them in stock. I can't decide whether to buy them though since I have only had the Tivo HDs for 30 days. I am tempted to hold out for another month or two but as we creep towards the new fall season I may need to do it sooner rather than later.


Well the cost probably won't go up so holding out wouldn't be a bad idea as long as you can manage to deal with the space limitations for a little longer.


----------



## innocentfreak

True but then again they really haven't dropped in price either. I really would prefer to wait as long as I can before upgrading. I think I am just worried when I go from average recordings to a ton a night especially with how slow Tivo Desktop transfers are.


----------



## richsadams

innocentfreak said:


> True but then again they really haven't dropped in price either.


Whadaya mean? I paid $259 for my first 1TB WD10EACS from BB...on sale!


----------



## gary622

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but when I upgrade my drive, and I get to the following instructions "Shut down Windows, turn off your computer, and connect only the original TiVo drive. You can open your computer and connect it with a SATA cable, or you can connect it externally with a SATA->USB adapter or a drive dock." when it says to connect only the original Tivo drive, does that mean I should disconnect my computer hard drive and only have the Tivo drive, or do I connect them both. I will be connecting the Tivo drive internally.


----------



## bkdtv

gary622 said:


> Sorry if this is a stupid question, but when I upgrade my drive, and I get to the following instructions "Shut down Windows, turn off your computer, and connect only the original TiVo drive. You can open your computer and connect it with a SATA cable, or you can connect it externally with a SATA->USB adapter or a drive dock." when it says to connect only the original Tivo drive, does that mean I should disconnect my computer hard drive and only have the Tivo drive, or do I connect them both. I will be connecting the Tivo drive internally.


You should leave your computer drive(s) connected. If you don't, Windows won't boot. 

When it says "connect only the original TiVo drive" that just means that you shouldn't [yet] connect the new replacement drive. If you know what you were doing, you could also connect the new replacement drive at the same time, but the instructions are written to be as idiot-proof as possible, so the backup and restore is described in two separate steps.


----------



## gary622

bkdtv said:


> You should leave your computer drive(s) connected. If you don't, Windows won't boot.
> 
> When it says "connect only the original TiVo drive" that just means that you shouldn't [yet] connect the new replacement drive. If you know what you were doing, you could also connect the new replacement drive at the same time, but the instructions are written to be as idiot-proof as possible, so the backup and restore is described in two separate steps.


That's what I thought, thanks


----------



## spocko

I also had to stop and think when I got to that step in the instructions that Gary mentioned. The wording "connect only the original TiVo drive" is potentially confusing. It might be clearer to explicitly say something like "connect the original TiVo drive. Do not connect the replacement drive at this time. Do not disconnect your Windows boot drive."


----------



## Sparty99

Recently placed an order for a couple of 1.5 TB drives from Newegg. Can anyone here tell me if these drives will be usable for a Series 3 upgrade?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152175

Thanks in advance.


----------



## richsadams

Sparty99 said:


> Recently placed an order for a couple of 1.5 TB drives from Newegg. Can anyone here tell me if these drives will be usable for a Series 3 upgrade?
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152175
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Everything you need to know about upgrading can be found on the first post of this sticky thread. Section 1, #16 is what you're looking for.

BTW Samsung Spinpoint drives have had mixed results and are not on the recommended hard drive list.


----------



## cuppingmaster

I'm down with doing this, I found appropriate Mac instructions and the WD drive I want is easy enough to come by. The trouble is, I'm worried that one of these auto downloaded SW updates will break my upgraded TiVo. Anyone care to speculate on the likelihood of this? 

Of course, I could just buy the 1TB myDVR expander, but that's not clean and no fun in doing it.


----------



## richsadams

cuppingmaster said:


> I'm worried that one of these auto downloaded SW updates will break my upgraded TiVo. Anyone care to speculate on the likelihood of this?


Nothing to speculate about...it's never happened.

Happy upgrading.


----------



## cuppingmaster

richsadams said:


> Nothing to speculate about...it's never happened.
> 
> Happy upgrading.


Thanks!


----------



## Sparty99

richsadams said:


> Everything you need to know about upgrading can be found on the first post of this sticky thread. Section 1, #16 is what you're looking for.
> 
> BTW Samsung Spinpoint drives have had mixed results and are not on the recommended hard drive list.


That's kind of what I was looking for. I'm going to be replacing a WD 1TB hard drive in my computer, so I'll probably just format that and put it in the TiVo.

Thanks for the input!


----------



## DixonAgee

I have a Series 3 Tivo and had purchased a WD10EVVS drive to upgrade. The last time I checked in I had tried to run MFS Copy and the process had stuck. I was told to use Backup/Restore (and lose my recordings?) or try a new PC for the Copy. I decided to wait for a new PC to try again - which is what I did today.

My first attempt seemed to freeze at the same point as the first try - but after first selecting MFS Supersize (I know - out of order) - the Copy seemed to work! However I was not satisfied with the final Partition Stats - the last media partition seemed very small. 

So ... I decided to run the format on the new drive, then start from scratch. This time everything ran as expected and the Partition Stats looked much better. I installed the drive this evening and .... 157 HD hrs are now available - the predicted amount for the WD10 EVVS drive. Finally!

I'm not sure why the other PC didn't work - someone suggested an anti-virus or firewall program was to blame. That could be true. I didn't try the old machine with a clean boot. However, the new machine did not have any of these running - which made the issue moot. All's well that ends well.


----------



## ThAbtO

DixonAgee said:


> 157 HD hrs are now available - the predicted amount for the WD10 EVVS drive. Finally!


Good Job :up::up::up:


----------



## richsadams

DixonAgee said:


> I installed the drive this evening and .... 157 HD hrs are now available - the predicted amount for the WD10 EVVS drive. Finally!


Welcome to the club!


----------



## gary622

Help!

I am trying to upgrade my Tivo HD with a WD 1TB. I connected the original Tivo drive to my computer and executed the MFS program. I went to file, select, and my original drive was listed first. I selected the 1 under the column where it says A drive and hit select (the drive info listed shows the model of my WD 160 hd, then format-Tivo series 2 or 3, size-160, sectors-***, Bus type-ATA, Drive Letter-Unmounted).

I then go to file, backup, Tivo Drive (Truncated)...and it brings me to a backup screen that has two boxes. The first box says steps. The first step is select backup file. I hit the select button and I only see information from my computer drive, not the Tivo drive. What am I supposed to select to backup?


----------



## dlfl

gary622 said:


> Help!
> 
> I am trying to upgrade my Tivo HD with a WD 1TB. I connected the original Tivo drive to my computer and executed the MFS program. I went to file, select, and my original drive was listed first. I selected the 1 under the column where it says A drive and hit select (the drive info listed shows the model of my WD 160 hd, then format-Tivo series 2 or 3, size-160, sectors-***, Bus type-ATA, Drive Letter-Unmounted).
> 
> I then go to file, backup, Tivo Drive (Truncated)...and it brings me to a backup screen that has two boxes. The first box says steps. The first step is select backup file. I hit the select button and I only see information from my computer drive, not the Tivo drive. What am I supposed to select to backup?


I haven't done this myself yet, but I'm pretty sure you are supposed to select a backup file name on your Windows hard drive(s) where WinMFS will create the backup file. Thus it makes sense that you are seeing your computer drive at that point.

By the way, are you following the instructions given in the first post of this thread, Section IV, Item 18 ?


----------



## gary622

Thanks dlfl. Why I didn't figure that out, I have no idea! Thanks for the help, the backup and restore worked, now I will hook the Tivo backup and hope it really worked.

And yes, I am following the instructions you mentioned.


----------



## diskus

richsadams said:


> I'd just go with the $79.99 WD10EADS. . The one thing that might make a difference to you personally, AAM, you can modify (de-tune to 128 for quieter seeks). So why wait?
> 
> Can someone explain exactly what that line means, Im not even sure which of the drives it refers to?
> 
> Thanks!!!
> Mike


----------



## dlfl

diskus said:


> richsadams said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just go with the $79.99 WD10EADS. . The one thing that might make a difference to you personally, AAM, you can modify (de-tune to 128 for quieter seeks). So why wait?
> 
> Can someone explain exactly what that line means, Im not even sure which of the drives it refers to?
> 
> Thanks!!!
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you are wondering what AAM is (the WD10EADS is a Western Digital Drive -- just Google or follow the link already given above).
> 
> AAM is an adjustment for trading off HD seek noise versus performance.
> 
> The first post in this thread discusses setting AAM with a Hitachi tool. However at least one user found that didn't work for the WD10EACS and found another tool that did work. See this post earlier in this thread and the following four or five posts for all the details.
Click to expand...


----------



## Dssturbo1

Sparty99 said:


> Recently placed an order for a couple of 1.5 TB drives from Newegg. Can anyone here tell me if these drives will be usable for a Series 3 upgrade?
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152175
> 
> Thanks in advance.


yes, i used a Seagate 1.5Tb drive in my S3. It only uses 1.35Tb of the space with the stock S3. you would need to have the Prom modded to use all the space with a 1.5 or 2 Tb drive.

The 1.35Tb usable space gives me 213 HD hours with the one internal drive, it's quiet and has worked just fine so far. Fry's had them on sale for $107 shipped a couple months ago but have not seen them that low recently.


----------



## Sparty99

Dssturbo1 said:


> yes, i used a Seagate 1.5Tb drive in my S3. It only uses 1.35Tb of the space with the stock S3. you would need to have the Prom modded to use all the space with a 1.5 or 2 Tb drive.
> 
> The 1.35Tb usable space gives me 213 HD hours with the one internal drive, it's quiet and has worked just fine so far. Fry's had them on sale for $107 shipped a couple months ago but have not seen them that low recently.


It looks like it's going to be a moot point, as my brother's going to take one of the 2 I ordered. I'll take the 1 TB drive I'm currently using for my video archives and drop it into the S3.

Does anyone know if it's worth it to drop a 500 GB drive into a TiVo HD? I've got a few of those lying around and figured I'd go through the upgrade if it was worth it.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Well the cost probably won't go up so holding out wouldn't be a bad idea as long as you can manage to deal with the space limitations for a little longer.


Rich, just got back from Westfir, OR...an RV Vacation.

Now I can buy an upgrade drive. I hate the fact that the EVVS is at least $20 more than the EADS, but if it runs cooler it may be worth it. My other concern is that I, too, have only had these 3 THD's running for a Month and want to be sure all is OK...maybe upgrade after the summer or when it becomes less than 100 degrees around here!!


----------



## jlib

Dssturbo1 said:


> yes, i used a Seagate 1.5Tb drive in my S3. It only uses 1.35Tb of the space with the stock S3...
> 
> The 1.35Tb usable space gives me 213 HD hours with the one internal drive, it's quiet and has worked just fine so far...


Dssturbo, that is something I want to do. I am wondering if you started from an already upgraded drive when you moved to 1.5(1.35)TB? I have 1TB now and need a few more hours but I want to keep all current recordings. Did you just copy and then add the extra space from an upgraded drive or did you start with the original drive? I am not sure what I am worried about but I seem to vaguely remember there being some sort of limit to how many times a drive can be expanded. Is that notion obsolete now?


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Now I can buy an upgrade drive. I hate the fact that the EVVS is at least $20 more than the EADS, but if it runs cooler it may be worth it. My other concern is that I, too, have only had these 3 THD's running for a Month and want to be sure all is OK...maybe upgrade after the summer or when it becomes less than 100 degrees around here!!


Under the conditions TiVo operates I doubt you'd see much difference in temperature between the two drives. I had an EADS and it ran about the same as the EVCS and the EACS. The other nice thing about the EVVS though is that the AAM is set to 128 for quieter operation. You have to manually set it for the EADS...although they are very quiet to start with IMO.

Agreed, if you don't need the extra capacity now, I'd just wait to upgrade later.

I was "lucky" enough to be in Seattle yesterday...103...the record high of all time for them.


----------



## janry

OK, now make sure I have this straight. I upgraded a couple of series 1's in years past. I'm non techinical so making a bootable disk and figuring out all that hda and hdb and hdwhatever really had me going. Unconnecting the computer boot drive, connecting this that and the other but connecting them in random order etc had me swearing I'd never do it again.

But, if I have the instructions in the first post of this thread right, it really looks like a piece of cake now. 

Come on! Where are the real instructions? You know, the confusing ones?


----------



## richsadams

janry said:


> OK, now make sure I have this straight. I upgraded a couple of series 1's in years past. I'm non techinical so making a bootable disk and figuring out all that hda and hdb and hdwhatever really had me going. Unconnecting the computer boot drive, connecting this that and the other but connecting them in random order etc had me swearing I'd never do it again.
> 
> But, if I have the instructions in the first post of this thread right, it really looks like a piece of cake now.
> 
> Come on! Where are the real instructions? You know, the confusing ones?


Been there, done that, remember the pain. 

winMFS by comparison is not just a piece of cake, but includes icing and sprinkles too. Let the ghosts of upgrades past RIP. You should have zero problems. :up:


----------



## diskus

Thanks for the info. I have it all straight now
I downloaded the hdscan exe and played with the AAM setting WOW what a difference it makes on my desktop!!

Ordered the EVVS from above time to upgrade!!



dlfl said:


> diskus said:
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you are wondering what AAM is (the WD10EADS is a Western Digital Drive -- just Google or follow the link already given above).
> 
> AAM is an adjustment for trading off HD seek noise versus performance.
> 
> The first post in this thread discusses setting AAM with a Hitachi tool. However at least one user found that didn't work for the WD10EACS and found another tool that did work. See this post earlier in this thread and the following four or five posts for all the details.
Click to expand...


----------



## richsadams

Keep in mind that reducing the AAM reduces the seek times as well. For TiVo there is zero impact, but you may notice it with your computer. If not...silence is golden!


----------



## Dssturbo1

jlib said:


> Dssturbo, that is something I want to do. I am wondering if you started from an already upgraded drive when you moved to 1.5(1.35)TB? I have 1TB now and need a few more hours but I want to keep all current recordings. Did you just copy and then add the extra space from an upgraded drive or did you start with the original drive? I am not sure what I am worried about but I seem to vaguely remember there being some sort of limit to how many times a drive can be expanded. Is that notion obsolete now?


i upgraded to the Seagate 1.5Tb from the stock S3 drive. used WinMFS and copied over the info/recordings

not sure about how many times a drive can be expanded. maybe rich, bdftv spike or someone else can answer that for ya.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Under the conditions TiVo operates I doubt you'd see much difference in temperature between the two drives. I had an EADS and it ran about the same as the EVCS and the EACS. The other nice thing about the EVVS though is that the AAM is set to 128 for quieter operation. You have to manually set it for the EADS...although they are very quiet to start with IMO.
> 
> Agreed, if you don't need the extra capacity now, I'd just wait to upgrade later.
> 
> I was "lucky" enough to be in Seattle yesterday...103...the record high of all time for them.


Thanks, Rich. Where I want to put the 1TB is in a room where I would probably not hear it anyway even if I left the EADS as is. The house has full A/C so heat would be OK too. I may as well wait 'til the end of the summer, however, and see what, if anything, happens to the prices.

Stay cool,

Dave


----------



## spocko

dlfl said:


> The first post in this thread discusses setting AAM with a Hitachi tool. However at least one user found that didn't work for the WD10EACS and found another tool that did work. See this post earlier in this thread and the following four or five posts for all the details.


I'm that "other user". To clarify, I don't think my problem was with the Hitachi tool not supporting the WD10EACS. The problem was that it just didn't see the drive when it was connected via a USB to SATA adapter. hddscan did recognize the drive when it was connected that way. The Hitachi tool would probably work fine if the WD10EACS was directly connected via SATA.


----------



## bkdtv

spocko said:


> I'm that "other user". To clarify, I don't think my problem was with the Hitachi tool not supporting the WD10EACS. The problem was that it just didn't see the drive when it was connected via a USB to SATA adapter. hddscan did recognize the drive when it was connected that way. They Hitachi tool would probably work fine if the WD10EACS was directly connected via SATA.


It's worth noting that the latest version of Hitachi Feature Tool removed support for third-party AAM configuration. You can't set AAM on a Western Digital drive with the latest version. You have to download the older version linked in the first post.

I'll update the FAQ in the next day or two with the suggestion of Hddscan for USB-connected drives.


----------



## spocko

Just thought I'd share that upgrading my Tivo HD from the stock 160GB WD1600AVJS to a 1TB WD10EACS did increase the Tivo's internal temp by few degrees. Previously it was running about 42-43 C, and now it's about 44-45. This is the temp reported on the System Information screen. The ambient temp is about 78 F. I don't think this temp is a problem, I was just a little surprised to see that much difference. I guess that little stock drive runs very cool.


----------



## dlfl

spocko said:


> Just thought I'd share that upgrading my Tivo HD from the stock 160GB WD1600AVJS to a 1TB WD10EACS did increase the Tivo's internal temp by few degrees. Previously it was running about 42-43 C, and now it's about 44-45. This is the temp reported on the System Information screen. The ambient temp is about 78 F. I don't think this temp is a problem, I was just a little surprised to see that much difference. I guess that little stock drive runs very cool.


I wonder if the AAM setting has any significant effect on temperature? If you tell it to seek slower (quieter) would it create a little less heat?

My stock 160GB HD frequently runs 44-45C degrees with ambient of 75F. It is in a cabinet and the ambient is the temp outside the cabinet. It always labels those temps as normal. How high does it have to get before it says above normal, I wonder?


----------



## richsadams

dlfl said:


> How high does it have to get before it says above normal, I wonder?


IIRC over 65C for TiVo. Once in a while there's a post about a TiVo shutting down due to heat...usually because the internal fan quit...and usually on a S2.

The hard drives themselves are rated to run well over 70C now.


----------



## diskus

Completed the upgrade on the WD EVVS 1TB with WinMFS checked the soft restart, no probs. 142 HD hours !!!

Thanks for the help

Mike



diskus said:


> Thanks for the info. I have it all straight now
> I downloaded the hdscan exe and played with the AAM setting WOW what a difference it makes on my desktop!!
> 
> Ordered the EVVS from above time to upgrade!!


----------



## spocko

dlfl said:


> I wonder if the AAM setting has any significant effect on temperature? If you tell it to seek slower (quieter) would it create a little less heat?


That's possible, but probably not a significant difference. My drive already has AAM set to the lowest value.

The stock 160GB drive is probably single platter, while the 1TB drives are 2 or 3 platters depending on the model. Drives with fewer platters generally run cooler if all else is the same. On the other hand, according to the specs on the WD site, the 160GB drive is 7200 RPM, while the WD Green drives reportedly run at 5400 RPM. The 160GB drive also lists higher power dissipation specs than the EACS drive that I'm using, so those things in theory would tend to make the 1TB drive run cooler. In practice though, it appears that the EACS drive runs warmer. Perhaps there is some magic in the "AV" series drives that helps them run cooler? Has anyone who has upgraded using an EVVS/EVCS/EVDS noted a temp increase?

I'm not trying to make a big deal of this, a few degrees doesn't matter, I'm just curious. If the AV series drives do run cooler, that could help justify their higher cost.


----------



## Sparty99

Alright guys, I'm officially dumbstruck and looking for help. I've connected multiple drives over multiple ways on 2 computers. If I connect the SATA drives via external drive enclosures using my laptop, the devices are found in Disk Management but WinMFS does not see the TiVo drive. If I connect it on my desktop via SATA connector, WinMFS finds the original TiVo drive but does not see any destination drive. I've tried a 500 GB, 1 TB and 1.5 TB drive on these (admittedly, these are drives I have leftover and are not on the list in the OP).

Can anyone provide some guidance?


----------



## greg_burns

Sparty99 said:


> Alright guys, I'm officially dumbstruck and looking for help. I've connected multiple drives over multiple ways on 2 computers. If I connect the SATA drives via external drive enclosures using my laptop, the devices are found in Disk Management but WinMFS does not see the TiVo drive. If I connect it on my desktop via SATA connector, WinMFS finds the original TiVo drive but does not see any destination drive. I've tried a 500 GB, 1 TB and 1.5 TB drive on these (admittedly, these are drives I have leftover and are not on the list in the OP).
> 
> Can anyone provide some guidance?


Did you enable the internal sata port (in the BIOS) you are using on your desktop? Some PCs do not autodetect...


----------



## bkdtv

Sparty99 said:


> Alright guys, I'm officially dumbstruck and looking for help. I've connected multiple drives over multiple ways on 2 computers. If I connect the SATA drives via external drive enclosures using my laptop, the devices are found in Disk Management but WinMFS does not see the TiVo drive. If I connect it on my desktop via SATA connector, WinMFS finds the original TiVo drive but does not see any destination drive. I've tried a 500 GB, 1 TB and 1.5 TB drive on these (admittedly, these are drives I have leftover and are not on the list in the OP).


In each case, did you run WinMFS as administrator? WinMFS won't see the USB drives without administrative privileges.


----------



## csell

I'm looking to replace my dead internal harddrive for my Tivo HD. I noticed several of the hard drives listed on the recommended list are 5400 RPMs. I checked the specs on the one that came with the Tivo (the now dead one) and it is 7200 RPMs. Is putting in a new hard drive with lower RPMs really a good idea? Or is the a good reason why it doesn't really matter???


----------



## bkdtv

csell said:


> I'm looking to replace my dead internal harddrive for my Tivo HD. I noticed several of the hard drives listed on the recommended list are 5400 RPMs. I checked the specs on the one that came with the Tivo (the now dead one) and it is 7200 RPMs. Is putting in a new hard drive with lower RPMs really a good idea? Or is the a good reason why it doesn't really matter???


From the first post:



> Any 5400rpm drive sold in the past few years will provide the necessary performance. A MPEG-2 HD stream consumes no more than 2.42 MB/s (same as 19.4 Megabits/s). Recording two different HD channels while watching a third, while also transferring another HD program with MRV, would consume around 10 MB/s. Modern 5400rpm drives can sustain at least triple that.


TiVo uses the 5400rpm Western Digital WD10EVVS in its TivoHD XL.


----------



## csell

bkdtv said:


> From the first post:
> 
> TiVo uses the 5400rpm Western Digital WD10EVVS in its TivoHD XL.


Thanks - that was the type of convincing argument I was looking for! To me, the following seems like an awesome deal (I haven't looked for a new hard drive in years, so it may not be that great!):

WD5000AVVS (500 GB) for $56.82 at Amazon


----------



## Airhead315

csell said:


> Thanks - that was the type of convincing argument I was looking for! To me, the following seems like an awesome deal (I haven't looked for a new hard drive in years, so it may not be that great!):
> 
> WD5000AVVS (500 GB) for $56.82 at Amazon


Just to let you know I always use camelcamelcamel to determine whether I found a good deal on amazon or not. If you check out this link:

http://camelcamelcamel.com/product/B001DNSZAK

You will see that the average price for this drive on Amazon is 54.86. This price is about $2 more than that. The lowest price recorded is $48.11.


----------



## bkdtv

csell said:


> Thanks - that was the type of convincing argument I was looking for! To me, the following seems like an awesome deal (I haven't looked for a new hard drive in years, so it may not be that great!):
> 
> WD5000AVVS (500 GB) for $56.82 at Amazon


If you settle for 500GB now, you may regret that you didn't spend the extra $35-$45 for 1TB.

Storage fills much faster than you'd think.


----------



## richsadams

bkdtv said:


> If you settle for 500GB now, you may regret that you didn't spend the extra $35-$45 for 1TB.
> 
> Storage fills much faster than you'd think.


Absolutely agree. Spend a little bit more for double the space. You won't regret it.


----------



## janry

Did my upgrade last night. Now have 157 hours. Pleased as punch. Biggest problem was disconnecting the TiVo and reconnecting it in the AV rack.


----------



## richsadams

janry said:


> Biggest problem was disconnecting the TiVo and reconnecting it in the AV rack.


Some have to suffer for the cause.


----------



## Sparty99

greg_burns said:


> Did you enable the internal sata port (in the BIOS) you are using on your desktop? Some PCs do not autodetect...





bkdtv said:


> In each case, did you run WinMFS as administrator? WinMFS won't see the USB drives without administrative privileges.


Once I deleted the partition on the drive in question WinMFS was able to find the drive. However, I was doing this with what are essentially leftover hard drives and the performance on the 500GB drive I swapped in wasn't up to par, so I went back to the stock drive.

It was a really easy process and I've been running out of space a lot lately, so I'm seriously considering buying an approved drive for an upgrade.

Thanks for your input.


----------



## richsadams

Sparty99 said:


> ...the performance on the 500GB drive I swapped in wasn't up to par, so I went back to the stock drive.


Curious...what performance issues did you see? What kind of drive? TiVo's hard drive demands are relatively minimal compared to normal computers so was just wondering what problems you noticed.


----------



## Sparty99

richsadams said:


> Curious...what performance issues did you see? What kind of drive? TiVo's hard drive demands are relatively minimal compared to normal computers so was just wondering what problems you noticed.


It was a WD5000KS (like I said, I was just using leftover drives). The drive was noticeably louder and it would click at various points (normally this would correspond to a freezing of the screen. I could have lived with it, but in the end it really wasn't worth it to me.


----------



## richsadams

Sparty99 said:


> It was a WD5000KS (like I said, I was just using leftover drives). The drive was noticeably louder and it would click at various points (normally this would correspond to a freezing of the screen. I could have lived with it, but in the end it really wasn't worth it to me.


Ah, got it. Sounds like some sector issues.

So a great excuse to pick up that shiny new 1TB you've had your eye on.


----------



## Airhead315

Hey guys, the WD10EADS 1TB drive is on sale at newegg for $79.99 with free shipping! About a $10 savings off the current going rate for this drive.


----------



## MPSAN

Airhead315 said:


> Hey guys, the WD10EADS 1TB drive is on sale at newegg for $79.99 with free shipping! About a $10 savings off the current going rate for this drive.


Yeah and it was $69 at Dell with coupons but I could not order it as we went away for a week. Now I am waiting to see if I can get it for less than $79. ZipZoomFly has it with free shipping for $88-$15 rebate so it is $72.99 delivered...maybe that is good enough!

Hey Rich, since all my TiVo's are OK, can I now break one of them?


----------



## richsadams

Airhead315 said:


> Hey guys, the WD10EADS 1TB drive is on sale at newegg for $79.99 with free shipping! About a $10 savings off the current going rate for this drive.


That's a good price. :up: Keep in mind that the WD10EADS cannot be used as an internal hard drive upgrade in the TiVo Series3 due to a soft reboot issue (reason for excluding it from the recommended drive list on the first post).


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Hey Rich, since all my TiVo's are OK, can I now break one of them?


Live dangerous I always say!


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Live dangerous I always say!


Well, $72.99 seems like a great price and the WD10EADS should be just fine for my TiVo HD's! Actually, it seems to make the EVVS not very cost effective! It is a $30 premium, and for what, in a THD?

Also, we fell below 100 degrees so I guess it may be time!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Also, we fell below 100 degrees so I guess it may be time!


That makes it time for another <insert ice cold beverage of your choice>. But if you're going to be upgrading, it's probably wise to save that six-pack for later.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> That makes it time for another <insert ice cold beverage of your choice>. But if you're going to be upgrading, it's probably wise to save that six-pack for later.


You mean save it if the upgrade goes without a hitch! I may do this as it has to be worth $72.99 and, although I never have ordered from ZZF, the packaging for HDD's has to be better than Newegg!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> You mean save it if the upgrade goes without a hitch! I may do this as it has to be worth $72.99 and, although I never have ordered from ZZF, the packaging for HDD's has to be better than Newegg!


Agreed...on both counts, although to be fair I've purchased a number of OEM HDD's from newegg and they all worked fine. I've had good luck with ZipZoom too.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Agreed...on both counts, although to be fair I've purchased a number of OEM HDD's from newegg and they all worked fine. I've had good luck with ZipZoom too.


I agree with that as well. Lots of HDD's from the Egg. I am amazed at the packaging, but they have all worked.


----------



## elkcum55

MPSAN said:


> Well, $72.99 seems like a great price and the WD10EADS should be just fine for my TiVo HD's! Actually, it seems to make the EVVS not very cost effective! It is a $30 premium, and for what, in a THD?
> 
> Also, we fell below 100 degrees so I guess it may be time!


Are you sure it will work with the HD? I just tried one in mine a few days ago and I could not get past the Powering Up screen. I used Instantcake on my other WD green drive with only 16 cache and it worked with out a hitch.


----------



## MPSAN

elkcum55 said:


> Are you sure it will work with the HD? I just tried one in mine a few days ago and I could not get past the Powering Up screen. I used Instantcake on my other WD green drive with only 16 cache and it worked with out a hitch.


Everything I have read says it will. Even the upgrade guide says it is OK for the THD. Rich, isn't the WD10EADS just fine with our TiVo HD's?


----------



## richsadams

elkcum55 said:


> Are you sure it will work with the HD? I just tried one in mine a few days ago and I could not get past the Powering Up screen. I used Instantcake on my other WD green drive with only 16 cache and it worked with out a hitch.


Sounds like something was either wrong with the image process or the drive itself. OEM TiVo hard drives have a miniscule 2MB of cache. Anything above that is icing; 16MB Vs 32MB won't make any difference.



MPSAN said:


> Everything I have read says it will. Rich, isn't the WD10EADS fine with our TiVo HD's?


Yes the WD10EADS will work just fine in a TiVo HD. As bkdtv notes in the FAQ (first post):



> The WD10EACS, WD10EADS, and retail WD "Green" drives are not listed, because
> most revisions of those drives will not work as internal upgrades on the
> TiVo Series3. They will work on the newer TivoHD model. For 1TB upgrades,
> Series3 owners should stick to the WD10EVVS, WD10EVDS, ST31000322CS,
> ST31000533CS, and ST31000424CS.


----------



## elkcum55

richsadams said:


> Sounds like something was either wrong with the image process or the drive itself. OEM TiVo hard drives have a miniscule 2MB of cache. Anything above that is icing; 16MB Vs 32MB won't make any difference.
> 
> Yes the WD10EADS will work just fine in a TiVo HD. As bkdtv notes in the FAQ (first post):


Rich,

MY HD TIVO is new but it was manufactured in Sept. 07. Is this still considered a newer than the TIVO 3 model and then should not have a problem with the WD10EADS? Also,...thanks for answering the part about difference in 16 and 32 cache. I am new to this and really don't know about a lot of this stuff. That is why I come here for expert advice like yours.

Thanks


----------



## janry

Something I noticed that seemed odd when I upgraded my HD was the absence of dust inside it. Our house is old with lots of dust. Each time I opened my old Series 1, I spent a few minutes getting rid of the dust inside it. There was so little dust in the HD till it wasn't worth spending any time trying to clean it. I wonder why.


----------



## richsadams

elkcum55 said:


> Rich,
> 
> MY HD TIVO is new but it was manufactured in Sept. 07. Is this still considered a newer than the TIVO 3 model and then should not have a problem with the WD10EADS?


That drive should work fine in your TiVo HD.



elkcum55 said:


> That is why I come here for expert advice like yours.


Whoa there big fella...I wouldn't go tossing the word "expert" around so cavalierly. "Enthusiast" maybe...expert? Not so much.


----------



## wildcardd

Just wanted to say thanks for the very detailed instructions. I just added my new WD10EVVS to my Tivo and it went flawless. You guys rock.


----------



## richsadams

wildcardd said:


> Just wanted to say thanks for the very detailed instructions. I just added my new WD10EVVS to my Tivo and it went flawless. You guys rock.


Enjoy! :up:


----------



## mitchk

Thanks! Internal 1TB upgrade was an absolute breeze!


----------



## wired4net

I don't post much, but I just had to add my thanks to all of the contributors to this thread and others in the TivoCommunity.

After months of pondering alternatives and worrying about almost everything, we bit the bullet and canceled DirecTV (after some 5-6 years, mostly happy), mothballed our HR10-250 (we had thought it would have to be pried from our cold dead hands....) and went with FIOS TV and 2 brand spanking new TIVO HD's with MCards.

Today (and this is the reason for posting this in this thread), I continued the new wild and crazy lifestyle by upgrading one of our TIVO HD's from the 160GB original drive to a new 1TB WD10EVVS. I chose this slightly more expensive drive over the recently noted bargains for less expensive drives, just because the preponderance of advice on this thread seemed to suggest greater compatibility and good experience with that drive even though others may well have worked with our new TIVO HD. Besides, when we have later invested dozens of hours of desirable programming onto the chosen drive, what difference will the 30-40 buck difference matter, anyway?

So, today, we are as happy as pigs in slop. The drive upgrade went very smoothly -- thanks exactly to this thread and the WinMFS software by the good folks at mfslive.org. Thanks to you all for investing your time and energies to help other folks.

BTW, the features of the TIVO HD have blown us away. In comparison, our old, beloved HR 10-250 was forever stuck in the past. Now we are streaming DIVX, sharing recordings between rooms, watching YouTube, etc., etc.

Thanks to one and all!


----------



## elkcum55

Someone just mentioned sharing shows between HD TIVO's. Do you need to do anything pecial to see the shows on the other TIVO? When I go to Now Playing List on the new TIVO, it sees the other TIVO. When I click on the name of the other TIVO, it says "the DVR has not recordings. Press LEFT to return to the Now Playing List." There are plenty of recordings on the other TIVO. It is teh TIVO I installed the 1TB drive in to.

Thanks


----------



## ThAbtO

elkcum55 said:


> Someone just mentioned sharing shows between HD TIVO's. Do you need to do anything pecial to see the shows on the other TIVO? When I go to Now Playing List on the new TIVO, it sees the other TIVO. When I click on the name of the other TIVO, it says "the DVR has not recordings. Press LEFT to return to the Now Playing List." There are plenty of recordings on the other TIVO. It is teh TIVO I installed the 1TB drive in to.
> 
> Thanks


Do you have 'transfers' enabled in your Tivo Account, under DVR Preferences. If you just enabled it, have the Tivos make a connection.


----------



## bkdtv

If you just upgraded your TiVos using the backup and restore method, it may take a day or two (up to a few days) for the other TiVos to see the upgraded box. You may be able to speed the process by forcing a connection under Phone & Network.


----------



## Sparty99

Can anyone provide a quick review on the Hitachi in the OP for a S3? I've ordered one of the Western Digital drives, but it's pricier than I would have liked and it's on back order.


----------



## MPSAN

Ok, here is the deal. I went to MS Live Cash Back (BING?) and went to ZipZoomFly. I added the WD10EADS to the cart at $89.99 (free shipping, too) and there is a $15 rebate. Then, in the cart, add a code of ZZF8810 and it comes to this....

$88.99-$5-$15 rebate-$2.12 CashBack= $67.87. I have Never seen it for less.

OK, Rich, now I will break one of my new THD's in 5 days!


----------



## csell

Need help - I just upgraded my Tivo HD (using DVRUpgrades product). Anyway, all worked perfectly. Booted up correctly, setup correctly and was able to watch and record tv. It then did a software update and when it rebooted, it got stuck in the "Welcome! Powering up...." boot loop.

NOW WHAT?????


----------



## ThAbtO

Did you try pulling the plug?


----------



## csell

Yes, I tried unplugging - nothing, still stuck on the "Powering Up screen"....

So basically I successfully installed the new hard drive and it worked perfectly until it tried to do a software upgrade and now its back to the "Powering Up" reboot cycle.... 

Anyone have a clue???? I've spent a lot of money and have nothing to show for it. Anyone have a similar experience?


----------



## moxie1617

csell said:


> Yes, I tried unplugging - nothing, still stuck on the "Powering Up screen"....
> 
> So basically I successfully installed the new hard drive and it worked perfectly until it tried to do a software upgrade and now its back to the "Powering Up" reboot cycle....
> 
> Anyone have a clue???? I've spent a lot of money and have nothing to show for it. Anyone have a similar experience?


Did you e-mail or call DVRUpgrade. They should be able to help. Could have been damaged in shipping?


----------



## csell

moxie1617 said:


> Did you e-mail or call DVRUpgrade. They should be able to help. Could have been damaged in shipping?


I did the installation myself (so thus no shipping). But as previously said, it worked perfectly - booted up and worked great until Tivo did a software update and then its back to not being able to get past that Powering Up screen... I have a hard time believing its the hard drive since its a brand new hard drive and worked perfectly until the reboot.... I also don't think its the motherboard because, once again, it worked perfectly. Is there any chance it could be power supply related? My initial thought is no because it worked with the new harddrive just minutes earlier...


----------



## moxie1617

I believe the process of the upgrade installs the new firmware to a new sector of the disk that has not been used before. This sector could be bad. Hopefully some more knowledgable folks will chime in but I would still call DVRUpgrade. Only they know how they preped the disk.


----------



## MPSAN

Is the original HDD still there? You could put that back in if it was OK before the upgrade.


----------



## csell

MPSAN said:


> Is the original HDD still there? You could put that back in if it was OK before the upgrade.


The reason I did this upgrade in the first place was because it stopped working - got caught in the Powering Up reboot cycle. So I assumed it was a bad harddrive, so I upgraded to the new one, which initially worked perfectly, until Tivo did its software update and then rebooted the system.


----------



## MPSAN

csell said:


> The reason I did this upgrade in the first place was because it stopped working - got caught in the Powering Up reboot cycle. So I assumed it was a bad harddrive, so I upgraded to the new one, which initially worked perfectly, until Tivo did its software update and then rebooted the system.


OK, sorry I did not see that.


----------



## innocentfreak

Has anyone seen any updates on the 1.5tb WD AV drives, WD15EVDS, yet?


----------



## Robin

First, may I just say: WOW. This guide is a masterpiece, should be printed, bound, and sold at Borders. Wow.

Now I have one quick question about upgrading with an external drive only. The guide says:



bkdtv said:


> [*] *Add an unsupported 1.0 TB external drive (165 HD hours total)*
> 
> *Pros:* Cost effective at $110-$130 for external 1.0 TB. Preserves all settings and recordings.
> 
> *Cons:* Takes 35-45 minutes. Requires you to open the box and void the TiVo warranty. Introduces potential second source of failure, since all recordings are split across both drives; if either drive goes bad, you lose all recordings made since the drive was added. Adds another device to your TV room. No technical support is available for TiVos using external drives other than the My DVR Expander.
> 
> _[jumpto=S4]See Section IV for more information.[/jumpto]_


**snip**


> [*]*How do I add an eSATA drive to an unmodified Series3?*
> 
> 
> Disconnect power to the TiVo.
> 
> Connect the eSATA drive to your TiVo with the eSATA cable. Confirm that the eSATA cable is firmly inserted on both the TiVo and your eSATA drive.
> 
> Connect the power to your eSATA drive. Then reconnect power to your TiVo.
> 
> Enable the eSATA drive through the Settings -> Remote, CableCARD, and Devices -> External Storage menu. _Screenshots: #1, #2, #3._
> 
> These instructions also apply when adding Western Digital's My DVR Expander to an _unmodified_ TivoHD.


The first quote says this method requires you to open the box, but I don't see anything about opening the box in the actual instructions. The warranty's not a problem (mine's a refurb and is out of warranty anyway) and I don't mind opening the box if necessary (I upgraded my s1 and dtivo) but I feel like I'm not understanding the instructions. It sounds like it should just be "buy drive enclosure and drive, plug in, put in remote code".

What am I missing?


----------



## greg_burns

Robin said:


> It sounds like it should just be "buy drive enclosure and drive, plug in, put in remote code".
> 
> What am I missing?


That depends on a couple things. Do you have an original S3 or a TivoHD? Have you already upgraded the internal drive? BTW, the remote code was obsoleted awhile ago.

If you have an original S3 running the original internal drive, you can just add pretty much any external drive. Just plug it in. You enable it through the menus now (no longer with a KickStart remote code).

If you have a TivoHD (regardless if original drive or modified internal drive) or an original S3 (only required if it is has a modified internal drive), then you must remove the internal drive and connect it and your new external to a PC to "marry" them using WinMFS.

Does that answer your question?


----------



## bkdtv

I updated the FAQ, "How do I reduce the seek noise on my new hard drive?" as suggested to include instructions for HDDScan.exe.


----------



## Airhead315

Thanks for this FAQ. Just upgraded my TivoHD with a WD10EADS. 

I ran into one issue but it was my color-blind eyes that were at fault. I turned the Tivo on and only the green light was on and my TV said No input, then after a minute or two it said not supported mode. I looked up what it means when just the green light is on and people were reporting it as a classic sign of a catasrophic HD failure. It turns out that the component inputs on the Tivo HD are in the reverse order as all of my other components. All of my others are Y,Pb,Pr but the tivo is Pr,Pb,Y and since im color blind I screwed up the order(green and red are very close in color for me). lol


----------



## MPSAN

Airhead315 said:


> Thanks for this FAQ. Just upgraded my TivoHD with a WD10EADS.
> 
> I ran into one issue but it was my color-blind eyes that were at fault. I turned the Tivo on and only the green light was on and my TV said No input, then after a minute or two it said not supported mode. I looked up what it means when just the green light is on and people were reporting it as a classic sign of a catasrophic HD failure. It turns out that the component inputs on the Tivo HD are in the reverse order as all of my other components. All of my others are Y,Pb,Pr but the tivo is Pr,Pb,Y and since im color blind I screwed up the order(green and red are very close in color for me). lol


Glad it worked. My WD10EADS will be here from ZZF on Tuesday! Did you copy shows or did you do the 1 drive at a time upgrade? Did you set the AAM to 128?


----------



## Airhead315

MPSAN said:


> Glad it worked. My WD10EADS will be here from ZZF on Tuesday! Did you copy shows or did you do the 1 drive at a time upgrade? Did you set the AAM to 128?


I copied all of the shows and did the AAM setting. Everything was very easy. I ran into difficulty due to my hardware however, I have 6 sata ports on my motherboard but when I went plug everything in I realized that my power supply only has 2 sata power plugs. Unfortunately my primary hard drive that runs windows also needs a sata power plug. To do the transfer of all of my shows I had to goto bestbuy and purchase (Rent...) a Hard Drive enclosure (USB) so I could hook everything up at once.

The easiest part was the AAM setting. It also looks like now that the process was simplified about 2 hours after I did it. The FAQ changed to use a windows utility to do it. I used a boot CD.


----------



## MPSAN

Airhead315 said:


> I copied all of the shows and did the AAM setting. Everything was very easy. I ran into difficulty due to my hardware however, I have 6 sata ports on my motherboard but when I went plug everything in I realized that my power supply only has 2 sata power plugs. Unfortunately my primary hard drive that runs windows also needs a sata power plug. To do the transfer of all of my shows I had to goto bestbuy and purchase (Rent...) a Hard Drive enclosure (USB) so I could hook everything up at once.
> 
> The easiest part was the AAM setting. It also looks like now that the process was simplified about 2 hours after I did it. The FAQ changed to use a windows utility to do it. I used a boot CD.


Yeah, I have both AAM utils. I think I will do AAM last. Might as well take advantage of fast seeks during the copy. However, with sequential seeks as in a copy it would probably not matter.

I too have a new system I built for my wife, and she has 8 SATA ports (ASUS P5QPRO) and have the PS that will power it, but I believe I did a careful lacing to get the extra plugs out of the way. But I may be OK. Will know Tuesday...or Wednesday as I am having my eyes checked Tuesday and will not be able to see for a while.

I know Rich will think that I should be able to do this blind by now!


----------



## lrhorer

cuppingmaster said:


> I'm down with doing this, I found appropriate Mac instructions and the WD drive I want is easy enough to come by. The trouble is, I'm worried that one of these auto downloaded SW updates will break my upgraded TiVo. Anyone care to speculate on the likelihood of this?


'Exceedingly unlikely. The drive expansion is not a user space artifact, and any OS module which broke the partitioning of a multi-drive system would almost surely break TiVo's own systems.


----------



## lrhorer

The prices for 2T drives are starting to get reasonable. Newegg has this 2T drive on for $199 until Sept 1. At $99.50 per Terabyte, it not quite as inexpensive as this 1.5T drive, which comes in at $76.66 per Terabyte, but 6T of storage using this drive will only cost $137 more than using 4 of the 1.5T drives. Given the cost of power and space in a PC or RAID system, that's not too bad.


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> I know Rich will think that I should be able to do this blind by now!


Depends on how you got that way...wine or tequila?


----------



## VinceA

Did my upgrade Friday night. Picked up a WD10EVVS for about $100. Used WinMFS to do the copy but didn't know about the Windows version of the AAM util so I used the MFSLive version. The only 'issue' I had was that my screwdriver had a little trouble reaching one screw but I dealt with it. Started the process around 5PM and finished at about 8:30PM. We went out for dinner in the middle so it probably would have been quicker if I'd been home the whole time.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Depends on how you got that way...wine or tequila?


Just eyedrops!


----------



## MPSAN

OK, for those with MSLIVE Cash Back (BING now) ZZF has a 20&#37; cashback deal NOW.

So, the WD10EADS would be $94.99 - $19 Cashback - $15 rebate or $60.99!!!

I just paid $67 and thought it was good!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> OK, for those with MSLIVE Cash Back (BING now) ZZF has a 20% cashback deal NOW.
> 
> So, the WD10EADS would be $94.99 - $19 Cashback - $15 rebate or $60.99!!!
> 
> I just paid $67 and thought it was good!


Nice find! :up:

Caveat: the WD10EADS only works as an internal hard drive upgrade for TiVo HD's. It does NOT work as an internal hard drive upgrade with Series3's due to a soft reboot issue.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Nice find! :up:
> 
> Caveat: the WD10EADS only works as an internal hard drive upgrade for TiVo HD's. It does NOT work as an internal hard drive upgrade with Series3's due to a soft reboot issue.


I could not believe the BING cash back of 20% or $19. You sign up free, of course, and I thought that $67 was good! For $61 it seems to not make sense to use an EVVS for the TiVo HD!


----------



## sweez

MPSAN said:


> OK, for those with MSLIVE Cash Back (BING now) ZZF has a 20% cashback deal NOW.
> 
> So, the WD10EADS would be $94.99 - $19 Cashback - $15 rebate or $60.99!!!
> 
> I just paid $67 and thought it was good!


thanks... just in time. planning to upgrade new tivo hd.


----------



## MPSAN

sweez said:


> thanks... just in time. planning to upgrade new tivo hd.


No problem. Be SURE to get on BING and select ZZF and then Go To Store. In that way, whatever you buy gets the cashback! If you already have a BING account you already know this!


----------



## sweez

MPSAN said:


> No problem. Be SURE to get on BING and select ZZF and then Go To Store. In that way, whatever you buy gets the cashback! If you already have a BING account you already know this!


how soon does it show up in the bing account?


----------



## MPSAN

sweez said:


> how soon does it show up in the bing account?


Mine only took 9 minutes for me to get an email from BING, however, YMMV for sure. I see the pending in my BING account and am not sure when it was added. Did you get an email or didn't you order yet?

I got 2% cashback but today it is 20%!!!


----------



## sweez

MPSAN said:


> Mine only took 9 minutes for me to get an email from BING, however, YMMV for sure. I see the pending in my BING account and am not sure when it was added. Did you get an email or didn't you order yet?
> 
> I got 2% cashback but today it is 20%!!!


no email from bing, only zzf. the status on zzf says "processing" still. on bing, nothing under pending. i guess i'll wait and see. the bing faq says i can contact support in a day or two if nothing appears. thanks again!


----------



## MPSAN

sweez said:


> no email from bing, only zzf. the status on zzf says "processing" still. on bing, nothing under pending. i guess i'll wait and see. the bing faq says i can contact support in a day or two if nothing appears. thanks again!


OK, you should not have any issues as long as you went to BING first and went to the ZZF site from BING. I expect that with this new BING promo they are getting busy!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> I could not believe the BING cash back of 20% or $19. You sign up free, of course, and I thought that $67 was good! For $61 it seems to not make sense to use an EVVS for the TiVo HD!


I actually bought a Macbook on ebay during a 20% "Live cash back" offer a while back. Imagine that. Bill Gates was giving me more than $100 for buying a Mac. You have to love it!


----------



## richsadams

sweez said:


> no email from bing, only zzf. the status on zzf says "processing" still. on bing, nothing under pending. i guess i'll wait and see. the bing faq says i can contact support in a day or two if nothing appears. thanks again!


Sometimes it takes a while to show up...all dependent on the merchant's account activity/interaction. Once it's in the Cash Back account there is a waiting period before they pay it out though. IIRC I had to wait 60 days...but as mentioned above, it was worth it!


----------



## mumpower

I notice that there is absolutely no mention of Iomega external storage on the first page (which is truly exceptional work, by the way). Is this in and of itself an indictment? Amazon has the Iomega 34508 for $123.99, which is $45 less than the TiVo-supported Western Digital unit. I'm not a fan of paying 36% more if it's avoidable, but I presume this drive just doesn't work well as an eSata add-on. Is that correct?


----------



## richsadams

mumpower said:


> I notice that there is absolutely no mention of Iomega external storage on the first page (which is truly exceptional work, by the way). Is this in and of itself an indictment? Amazon has the Iomega 34508 for $123.99, which is $45 less than the TiVo-supported Western Digital unit. I'm not a fan of paying 36% more if it's avoidable, but I presume this drive just doesn't work well as an eSata add-on. Is that correct?


AFAIK no one has tried it...at least the newer 1TB version is all. Two things that might be of importance: it must have a hard on/off switch and the fact that the transfer rate is 1.5GB/sec rather than the standard 3.0GB/sec. may or may not have an impact. Also the specs indicate that it has an "Energy Star qualified adapter" for power. I've no idea what that means with regard to using it with TiVo but as long as it never spins or powers down it may work.

If you have a Series3 it may work via plug and play. Only the WD My DVR Expander will work via P&P with TiVo HD and HDXL's. Anything else has to be "married" to the internal drive (see the first post/FAQ for more).

An alternative is the Fantom 1TB GP drive which has proven itself (Section IV, #27 in the FAQ) and is on sale for $69.99 at MacMall AR at the moment. (Again, will work via P&P w/Series3's only). BTW the Fantom eSATA drives (which use a WD Green drive) are warranted for two years Vs the Iomega's one-year warranty.

But if you give the Iomega drive a try, let us know how it goes!


----------



## elkcum55

ThAbtO said:


> Do you have 'transfers' enabled in your Tivo Account, under DVR Preferences. If you just enabled it, have the Tivos make a connection.


Thanks for the answer. I was out of town for a few days and did not see it. I just checked the TIVO boxes and they both have transfer enabled checked. When I go to both TIVO's, they see the other TIVO by name but say the DVR has not recordings. Press LEFT to return to the Now Playhing list. They both have been connected to the router for about 2 weeks. One is listed on my account and the other is on my daughter's account. Does that make a difference? Thanks again


----------



## Airhead315

elkcum55 said:


> Thanks for the answer. I was out of town for a few days and did not see it. I just checked the TIVO boxes and they both have transfer enabled checked. When I go to both TIVO's, they see the other TIVO by name but say the DVR has not recordings. Press LEFT to return to the Now Playhing list. They both have been connected to the router for about 2 weeks. One is listed on my account and the other is on my daughter's account. Does that make a difference? Thanks again


This is definitely your issue. Tivo uses a Media Access Key(MAK) to link tivos together. If the MAK's are not the same then they wont be able to share shows. You could call Tivo and see if you can transfer one of the boxes to the other account. Someone on here might have a different work around.

Without this security if you were to hook your tivo up to a colleges network anyone else with a Tivo on the colleges network would be able to view your shows(assuming your college isnt very good about setting up thier routing correctly).


----------



## ThAbtO

elkcum55 said:


> Thanks for the answer. I was out of town for a few days and did not see it. I just checked the TIVO boxes and they both have transfer enabled checked. When I go to both TIVO's, they see the other TIVO by name but say the DVR has not recordings. Press LEFT to return to the Now Playhing list. They both have been connected to the router for about 2 weeks. One is listed on my account and the other is on my daughter's account. Does that make a difference? Thanks again


Yes, all Tivos must be on the *same* network, *same* Tivo account, have the *same* Media Access Key to be able to transfer.


----------



## Robin

greg_burns said:


> That depends on a couple things. Do you have an original S3 or a TivoHD? Have you already upgraded the internal drive? BTW, the remote code was obsoleted awhile ago.
> 
> If you have an original S3 running the original internal drive, you can just add pretty much any external drive. Just plug it in. You enable it through the menus now (no longer with a KickStart remote code).
> 
> If you have a TivoHD (regardless if original drive or modified internal drive) or an original S3 (only required if it is has a modified internal drive), then you must remove the internal drive and connect it and your new external to a PC to "marry" them using WinMFS.
> 
> Does that answer your question?


I have a stock TivoHD.

Bummer that I can't just hook up an external! Is there a different thread I should be in for upgrade instructions?

Thanks for your help,
Robin

ETA: I don't have a computer w/ SATA, so where does that leave me w/r/t upgrade options? Just the WD My DVR expander?


----------



## MPSAN

Well, ALL:

I got my ZZF WD10EADS today. WOW, they sure package it well. Rich, others sure can learn from the foam "box" they slip the drive into!

P.S. Rich, I did connect it via my SATA to USB adapter to be sure it powered on and WinMFS did see it, but I can not see well yet! I sure picked a bad day to get my eyes checked as Wu was having a townhall meting there and I had to sign my life away to get thru security and the TV crews !!


----------



## fidget13a

ThAbtO said:


> Yes, all Tivos must be on the *same* network, *same* Tivo account, have the *same* Media Access Key to be able to transfer.


This is definitely your issue. Tivo uses a Media Access Key(MAK) to link tivos together. If the MAK's are not the same then they wont be able to share shows. You could call Tivo and see if you can transfer one of the boxes to the other account. Someone on here might have a different work around.

Without this security if you were to hook your tivo up to a colleges network anyone else with a Tivo on the colleges network would be able to view your shows(assuming your college isnt very good about setting up thier routing correctly).

THANKS Airhead315 and ThAbtO for the help. Guess I may put hers on my account and see what happens. I appreciate the help.


----------



## keenanSR

Has anyone purchased the below drive from Amazon? I'm assuming it's a raw drive(unboxed) and I'm curious about the shipping method they use, whether it's secure or not.

WD10EVVS @ Amazon


----------



## Sparty99

Well, it appears I may be in need of assistance. In the process of adding the Hitachi 1GB drive listed in the OP, I fried my original TiVo drive (note to self: make sure the computer is powered down before connecting the hard drive's power source). Luckily, I had a backup on hand from last week when I made my initial attempt. Unfortunately, now that the new drive is in the S3, the drive is stuck on the "Welcome! Powering Up" screen. Anyone else encountered this?

ETA: Uh, yeah, note to self #2: when putting the TiVo back together, MAKE SURE YOU RECONNECT THE HARD DRIVE! Duh.

ETA #2: Interesting development. I was under the impression that if you did a restore from backup, you lost all of your recordings but kept the To Do List and Season Passes. Well, lo and behold, my previous recordings have returned. These really aren't huge deals as I'd watched most of them, but some had been deleted without my being able to watch or archive. Cool!


----------



## jeffster

I had a Series 3 with an unsupported 1TB external eSATA drive on it.

Recently, the drive on the TiVo (the internal one) went bad, and I had to buy a replacement unit for the Series 3. Just finished installing it, and it's working fine, but the new Series 3 is not recognizing the external eSATA and showing it in the Remote, CableCard, & Devices menu.

I unplugged the Tivo, plugged in the drive, turned it on, and then plugged back in the power to the TiVo, but still no love. 

This worked fine on the old Series 3 -- any ideas what I can try to get the new Series 3 to recognize the old external drive and marry it in?


----------



## bkdtv

jeffster said:


> This worked fine on the old Series 3 -- any ideas what I can try to get the new Series 3 to recognize the old external drive and marry it in?


If you upgrade or replace the stock TiVo drive with a make/model/firmware that is not exactly the same as the original, then external drive expansion no longer works.

When replacing/upgrading the internal drive, I would recommend that you opt for at least 1TB (1.35TB is max supported by original Series3 model). More information in the first post.



Sparty99 said:


> ETA #2: Interesting development. I was under the impression that if you did a restore from backup, you lost all of your recordings but kept the To Do List and Season Passes. Well, lo and behold, my previous recordings have returned. These really aren't huge deals as I'd watched most of them, but some had been deleted without my being able to watch or archive. Cool!


If you did the truncated backup and restore, you won't be able to actually play those recordings. They'll just be links to recordings that no longer exist. You can delete them.


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Well, ALL:
> 
> I got my ZZF WD10EADS today. WOW, they sure package it well. Rich, others sure can learn from the foam "box" they slip the drive into!
> 
> P.S. Rich, I did connect it via my SATA to USB adapter to be sure it powered on and WinMFS did see it, but I can not see well yet! I sure picked a bad day to get my eyes checked as Wu was having a townhall meting there and I had to sign my life away to get thru security and the TV crews !!


Well...now you have something to "look" forward to. Get it? "Look"...see what I did there? With your eye check...and... Ah, never mind. It'll be interesting to "see" how things turn out. Ha, I did it again...I kill me. 

BTW, you weren't the wacko in the back of the room were you?


----------



## richsadams

keenanSR said:


> Has anyone purchased the below drive from Amazon? I'm assuming it's a raw drive(unboxed) and I'm curious about the shipping method they use, whether it's secure or not.
> 
> WD10EVVS @ Amazon


It's an OEM drive (bare w/no mounting hardware, etc.). I haven't purchased that particular drive, but have purchased OEM drives from Amazon and they do a good job of packing w/bubble wrap, etc. Better than Newegg...but then that's not saying much. Amazon has a free 30 day return incl. shipping if it arrives DOA.

Good price, good drive, good company. Good deal. Nice find. :up:


----------



## keenanSR

richsadams said:


> It's an OEM drive (bare w/no mounting hardware, etc.). I haven't purchased that particular drive, but have purchased OEM drives from Amazon and they do a good job of packing w/bubble wrap, etc. Better than Newegg...but then that's not saying much. Amazon has a free 30 day return incl. shipping if it arrives DOA.
> 
> Good price, good drive, good company. Good deal. Nice find. :up:


Thanks, I was concerned about the drive bouncing around in the box. I've ordered loads of stuff from Amazon, but never a drive, and having an S3, that's the model drive I need. They seem to be becoming a bit rare.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

keenanSR said:


> Has anyone purchased the below drive from Amazon? I'm assuming it's a raw drive(unboxed) and I'm curious about the shipping method they use, whether it's secure or not.
> 
> WD10EVVS @ Amazon


I bought this specific drive at Amazon. The drive itself was packaged in an OEM brown box. No problem there. Unfortunately, this OEM box was placed in a much larger shipping container along with an air pillow, when it really needed about ten more air pillows to keep the inner box from bouncing around in the shipping box.

I seem to recall another poster that received the drive in the OEM box with a shipping label slapped on it. I'm not sure which method is worse...

Amazon has great customer service, so you should be able to easily sort out any problems you may run into (shipping damage, etc.).

Let us know how it goes.


----------



## Sparty99

bkdtv said:


> If you did the truncated backup and restore, you won't be able to actually play those recordings. They'll just be links to recordings that no longer exist. You can delete them.


Yeah, I noticed that when I tried to transfer one. I just wasn't motivated enough to come back and update.


----------



## husky55

It seems like eon ago when I first bought my TivoHD. I knew then that the Tivo will record nothing but HD shows and that the OEM drive capacity was totally inadequate. so naturally this was the thread I found myself in to look for help, support and whatever else.

There are several very generous and helpful members here. But I noticed that RichAdams is the person who is always here, helping, encouraging and sharing his vast knowledge. Oregon must be a special place to have Rich there.

So my sincere thanks and appreciation to Rich and others who made this forum a particular helpful and welcoming place.


----------



## Airhead315

richsadams said:


> It's an OEM drive (bare w/no mounting hardware, etc.). I haven't purchased that particular drive, but have purchased OEM drives from Amazon and they do a good job of packing w/bubble wrap, etc. Better than Newegg...but then that's not saying much. Amazon has a free 30 day return incl. shipping if it arrives DOA.
> 
> Good price, good drive, good company. Good deal. Nice find. :up:


BTW, I purchased the OEM WD10EADS drive from newegg and the drive itself was in the static sleeve, then wrapped in bubblewrap and put in a box full of packing peanuts...maybe they are getting better with thier packaging?


----------



## dlfl

richsadams said:


> ........ Amazon has a free 30 day return incl. shipping if it arrives DOA..........


Indeed! I returned my first TiVo HD to Amazon. They make it as painless as possible. Their web site provides a UPS shipping label you print out and they schedule UPS to pick it up at your house. All at their expense.


----------



## Airhead315

dlfl said:


> Indeed! I returned my first TiVo HD to Amazon. They make it as painless as possible. Their web site provides a UPS shipping label you print out and they schedule UPS to pick it up at your house. All at their expense.


Unless when you go through the return process you select something that means the product wasnt defective. For instance, if you choose "It didnt fit" they will print you out a shipping label but when they refund your amount they dock you for a shipping charge(they dont tell you this shipping charge up front)


----------



## dlfl

Airhead315 said:


> Unless when you go through the return process you select something that means the product wasnt defective. For instance, if you choose "It didnt fit" they will print you out a shipping label but when they refund your amount they dock you for a shipping charge(they dont tell you this shipping charge up front)


Yeah, I found the process for getting to the right Amazon return page (where they pay for all the costs, etc.) was confusing. I think, as you say, the key is to say the product was defective.


----------



## richsadams

husky55 said:


> But I noticed that RichAdams is the person who is always here, ...


Thanks for the kind words. It just means that I'd rather do this than what I'm actually getting paid to do. 

This is a lot of fun IMHO...and being able to give back a little has its own rewards. The bulk of the kudos should really go to *Spike* at msfLive.org for coming up with the program that makes it almost simple to upgrade a TiVo and to *bkdtv* who was able to capture all of the details and nuances that make doing so clear...so clear that a cave man could do it. Hmmm....look what Grog do!


----------



## fidget13a

How can I check if I have a bad WD10EADS? This is the one I tried to put in a HD TIVO and could not get past the powering up screen. I put it in two external hook-ups and the computer says it sees the new hardware but when I go to my computer..it does not show there. When I hook up a little 80gig sata to the same usb connections, the computer does show the 80 gig drive.
Thanks in advance


----------



## Airhead315

fidget13a said:


> How can I check if I have a bad WD10EADS? This is the one I tried to put in a HD TIVO and could not get past the powering up screen. I put it in two external hook-ups and the computer says it sees the new hardware but when I go to my computer..it does not show there. When I hook up a little 80gig sata to the same usb connections, the computer does show the 80 gig drive.
> Thanks in advance


The drive wont show up in My Computer once you put any of the Tivo software on it. I think the best way to test a drive is to download Western Digitals diagnostic boot-cd. You should be able to find it on thier website. Download it, burn it to a CD and boot your machine to it.

This might be a good place to obtain these diagnostic programs:
http://www.tacktech.com/display.cfm?ttid=287#wdc


----------



## jeffster

jeffster said:


> I had a Series 3 with an unsupported 1TB external eSATA drive on it.
> 
> Recently, the drive on the TiVo (the internal one) went bad, and I had to buy a replacement unit for the Series 3. Just finished installing it, and it's working fine, but the new Series 3 is not recognizing the external eSATA and showing it in the Remote, CableCard, & Devices menu.
> 
> I unplugged the Tivo, plugged in the drive, turned it on, and then plugged back in the power to the TiVo, but still no love.
> 
> This worked fine on the old Series 3 -- any ideas what I can try to get the new Series 3 to recognize the old external drive and marry it in?


Never mind... TiVo shipped me a Series 3 with 8.01c on it. Never occurred to me.

Forced the update, got 11, and connected the external drive no problem.

Duh...


----------



## richsadams

jeffster said:


> Never mind... TiVo shipped me a Series 3 with 8.01c on it. Never occurred to me.
> 
> Forced the update, got 11, and connected the external drive no problem.
> 
> Duh...


D'oh! Glad to hear that it's working now!


----------



## richsadams

Airhead315 said:


> The drive wont show up in My Computer once you put any of the Tivo software on it. I think the best way to test a drive is to download Western Digitals diagnostic boot-cd. You should be able to find it on thier website. Download it, burn it to a CD and boot your machine to it.
> 
> This might be a good place to obtain these diagnostic programs:
> http://www.tacktech.com/display.cfm?ttid=287#wdc


Exactly right. :up: Nice find on the link...had never seen that before.

Here's the link to the WD site where you can select your drive and download the free diagnostic program as well (JIC):

WD's Lifeguard.

Here's the link for the WD10EADS:

http://support.wdc.com/product/download.asp?groupid=608&lang=en


----------



## mumpower

richsadams said:


> AFAIK no one has tried
> But if you give the Iomega drive a try, let us know how it goes!


That's a bit bolder than I'm going to be here. I'll just spend more for the safer solution.

Thanks for all of your feedback and advice. People like you who strive to assist others are the internet's greatest treasure.


----------



## MPSAN

Airhead315 said:


> The drive wont show up in My Computer once you put any of the Tivo software on it. I think the best way to test a drive is to download Western Digitals diagnostic boot-cd. You should be able to find it on thier website. Download it, burn it to a CD and boot your machine to it.
> 
> This might be a good place to obtain these diagnostic programs:
> http://www.tacktech.com/display.cfm?ttid=287#wdc


I just tested mine and can say that the drive will not show up in My Computer even with no TiVo software on it. You must use Disk Management to create the partition first! But, do not do it...you do not want it to show up in My Computer.

The way I tested mine was to just bring up WinMFS...it should show up there. Sometimes you need to reboot Windows for it to show, but WinMFS saw it using my SATA to USB converter.


----------



## richsadams

mumpower said:


> That's a bit bolder than I'm going to be here. I'll just spend more for the safer solution.
> 
> Thanks for all of your feedback and advice. People like you who strive to assist others are the internet's greatest treasure.


No problem. Actually if you're referring to the Fantom drive I mentioned as the "safer solution", it's almost half the price of the Iomega you were looking at...so no need to "spend more". 

Let us know how things go.


----------



## keenanSR

DCIFRTHS said:


> I bought this specific drive at Amazon. The drive itself was packaged in an OEM brown box. No problem there. Unfortunately, this OEM box was placed in a much larger shipping container along with an air pillow, when it really needed about ten more air pillows to keep the inner box from bouncing around in the shipping box.
> 
> I seem to recall another poster that received the drive in the OEM box with a shipping label slapped on it. I'm not sure which method is worse...
> 
> Amazon has great customer service, so you should be able to easily sort out any problems you may run into (shipping damage, etc.).
> 
> Let us know how it goes.


Will do. I have Amazon Prime but went ahead with 1-day shipping for $3.99 as I figure less time being handled the better.


----------



## innocentfreak

DCIFRTHS said:


> I bought this specific drive at Amazon. The drive itself was packaged in an OEM brown box. No problem there. Unfortunately, this OEM box was placed in a much larger shipping container along with an air pillow, when it really needed about ten more air pillows to keep the inner box from bouncing around in the shipping box.
> 
> I seem to recall another poster that received the drive in the OEM box with a shipping label slapped on it. I'm not sure which method is worse...
> 
> Amazon has great customer service, so you should be able to easily sort out any problems you may run into (shipping damage, etc.).
> 
> Let us know how it goes.


If you haven't already I would go on Amazon.com under your account and you can review their packing and even supply pictures if you want.


----------



## MPSAN

OK, since my 3 TiVo HD's are 6 weeks old now it was time to try to break one of them. Rich said I could! Well, no such luck...now I have 157Hours of HD space with my WD10EADS!

A few notes.

1. I think that a big help to me was to have a tool set that I bought from Harbor Freight a while ago for other things. It was called a 100 piece security bit set and even came with a magnetic adapter to fit the bits onto a ratchet or ratchet straight handle! It is only $7.99 and has it all! It is ITEM 91310-9VGA. If you do not have a B&M they do mail order. Not sure if this is worth adding to the FAQ.

2. I used the new PC I built for my wife and it has 8 SATA ports! Great for the 2 drive copy method. I do believe that with these newer MoBo's (ICH10R) that the Hitachi Tools is not something to even try for AAM. It does not see my drives and does not even find a Wireless Mouse. HDDSCAN worked well, and as mentioned before, no need to reboot Windows.

3. Anyway, I could not find the option in WinMFS to expand MY time so I could actually watch the shows I record!

Thank everyone again for this site!


----------



## innocentfreak

I can't make up my mind. I have a couple 500gb WD Sata drives with IDE adaptors in my Directivos which I am no longer using and I keep debating on whether to reuse them in the Tivo HDs. If I don't I will probably end up just throwing them in my server until I buy the 1tb drives though I have been holding out to see if the 1.5tb drive becomes available.


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Well, no such luck...now I have 157Hours of HD space with my WD10EADS!
> 
> 3. Anyway, I could not find the option in WinMFS to expand MY time so I could actually watch the shows I record!


Congrats on the upgrade...and apparently your ability to see again! 

With regard to #3...it's easy to miss. It's the second option under the "Fantasy Formatting" drop down menu, right after "Create Free TiVo Subscription - Y/N". 

Thanks for the tool time tip. I'll have to find that Harbor Freight place. :up:


----------



## Robin

Robin said:


> I have a stock TivoHD.
> 
> Bummer that I can't just hook up an external! Is there a different thread I should be in for upgrade instructions?
> 
> Thanks for your help,
> Robin
> 
> ETA: I don't have a computer w/ SATA, so where does that leave me w/r/t upgrade options? Just the WD My DVR expander?


I feel like a loser bumping my post, but I'm gonna do it anyway.

Anyone? Bueller?


----------



## moxie1617

The upgrade instructions are in the 1st post. Even how to do it with no SATA connections in your PC.


----------



## Airhead315

Robin said:


> I feel like a loser bumping my post, but I'm gonna do it anyway.
> 
> Anyone? Bueller?


My advice would be to go to Best Buy and "Rent" a SATA hard drive enclosure...Dont go until you are ready as thier "Rental" policy states you must return the item within 30 days to get your "Deposit" back.


----------



## Robin

moxie1617 said:


> The upgrade instructions are in the 1st post. Even how to do it with no SATA connections in your PC.


Can you tell me where? The only options I'm seeing for a TiVo HD are the my DVR expander, or pulling the original drive and 'marrying' it to the new one.


----------



## bkdtv

Robin said:


> Can you tell me where? The only options I'm seeing for a TiVo HD are the my DVR expander, or pulling the original drive and 'marrying' it to the new one.


Only the My DVR Expander works with the "plug and play" external drive expansion on the TivoHD. You cannot use a USB drive with the TivoHD.

If you want to use a different eSATA drive with the TivoHD, you must always pull the internal drive and marry it with a computer. If you don't have available SATA ports, you can marry the drive on your computer using USB->SATA adapters. The process is the same, except the drives are connected to your computer with USB->SATA (or USB->eSATA) adapters instead of SATA. Once done, you connect them with SATA/eSATA to the TiVo.

If you are going to open the TiVo, I think you might as well upgrade the internal with a 1TB drive ($80-$100). As above, you would connect the drive to your computer with a USB->SATA adapter ($10-$20) to perform the upgrade.


----------



## kingmob

The FAQ says that the WD10EADS will work on "the newer TivoHD model." Does "newer" in that case mean "as compared to the S3" or "as compared to older versions of the TivoHD"? I originally read it as the latter, but the former makes more sense. Obviously, I'd like to install it in a TivoHD, but if it's likely to have problems, then I'll look at a different drive.

Also, are the DOA reports at Newegg limited to WD10EADSes coming from Newegg, or is the issue more widespread?


----------



## bkdtv

kingmob said:


> The FAQ says that the WD10EADS will work on "the newer TivoHD model." Does "newer" in that case mean "as compared to the S3" or "as compared to older versions of the TivoHD"? I originally read it as the latter, but the former makes more sense. Obviously, I'd like to install it in a TivoHD, but if it's likely to have problems, then I'll look at a different drive.


It means "as compared to the Series3." TiVo continued to sell the Series3 for about a year after the TivoHD was released, so many don't realize that it predated the TivoHD by about 15 months.

TiVo has not updated the hardware on the TivoHD (aside from the larger drive in the TivoHD XL) since it was released in July, 2007. They updated the firmware a few times, but that doesn't have any affect on upgrades.


----------



## kingmob

bkdtv said:


> It means "as compared to the Series3." TiVo continued to sell the Series3 for about a year after the TivoHD was released, so many don't realize that it predated the TivoHD by about 15 months.
> 
> TiVo has not updated the hardware on the TivoHD (aside from the larger drive in the TivoHD XL) since it was released in July, 2007. They updated the firmware a few times, but that doesn't have any affect on upgrades.


Thanks for the quick reply. I went ahead and got it.

For anyone interested in the drive, ZipZoomFly has it right now for $94.99. There's a $15 mail in rebate, and they offer 20% cash back if you go through Bing. So, that takes it down to $61 before tax (if applicable in your state).


----------



## MPSAN

kingmob said:


> Thanks for the quick reply. I went ahead and got it.
> 
> For anyone interested in the drive, ZipZoomFly has it right now for $94.99. There's a $15 mail in rebate, and they offer 20% cash back if you go through Bing. So, that takes it down to $61 before tax (if applicable in your state).


Yes, I had posted that same deal, but I did not try to add the couipon code of ZZF-8810 to this new deal...it may save you even more. I got mine (and installed it yesterday) before the BING 20% cash back so I paid $67...still a great deal and all went well with the upgrade!


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Congrats on the upgrade...and apparently your ability to see again!
> 
> With regard to #3...it's easy to miss. It's the second option under the "Fantasy Formatting" drop down menu, right after "Create Free TiVo Subscription - Y/N".
> 
> Thanks for the tool time tip. I'll have to find that Harbor Freight place. :up:


Must be my bad eyes as I just can not find those options. Perhaps I used a downlevel WinMFS. 

Rich, just go to Harbor Freight on the web and put your ZIP in. There are several around here and we went to the one in Cedar Mill.

P.S. I am glad this all works as I get my eyes broken again next Wednesday.

OH, on a serious note...

Since I have 3 THD's and only intend to upgrade the one I did yesterday to 157 hours, I wonder why it is not suggested that you remove the HDD from the THD even if you are not going to upgrade, and even leave it on its cradle and perform a backup before the HDD goes bad. If this is done, you can buy a new HDD and loose only some shows, but you save yourself from having to deal with cable cards again if you did not have a backup image to restore to a new drive!


----------



## keenanSR

DCIFRTHS said:


> I bought this specific drive at Amazon. The drive itself was packaged in an OEM brown box. No problem there. Unfortunately, this OEM box was placed in a much larger shipping container along with an air pillow, when it really needed about ten more air pillows to keep the inner box from bouncing around in the shipping box.
> 
> I seem to recall another poster that received the drive in the OEM box with a shipping label slapped on it. I'm not sure which method is worse...
> 
> Amazon has great customer service, so you should be able to easily sort out any problems you may run into (shipping damage, etc.).
> 
> Let us know how it goes.


Received the drive today. Came in a small brown box with some sealed air packets to secure it. They could have done a bit better job on that as the drive was a bit loose in the box. The drive itself was sealed in the anti-static bag. The shipping address on the packing slip showed Amazon .com Return Center, Lexington Kentucky. That concerned me a bit, but the drive actually came from City of Industry, CA per FedEx tracking.

Anyway, installed the drive and everything seems to be running fine.

Thanks to *bkdtv* for the perfect instructions and to *spike* for the WinMFS software, the whole procedure went smooth as silk.


----------



## Robin

bkdtv said:


> If you don't have available SATA ports, you can marry the drive on your computer using USB->SATA adapters.


Ahhh, that's the missing piece of the puzzle. I didn't know such a beast existed. Thanks!


----------



## drhankz

Robin said:


> Ahhh, that's the missing piece of the puzzle. I didn't know such a beast existed. Thanks!


There were referred to in *STEP 11* of the 1st Post.

Probably in some other steps as well.

I used them to do my upgrade because all my SATA ports are in 
use on my desktop PC. They are SLOW - but they work fine.


----------



## fidget13a

Good morning,
I tried instantcake on my !B WD10EADS drive but did not have success. Can I now try to use the WinMFS program? If so, do I need to do anything to the drive first since I already tried the instantcake program?

thanks


----------



## Robin

drhankz said:


> There were referred to in *STEP 11* of the 1st Post.
> 
> Probably in some other steps as well.
> 
> I used them to do my upgrade because all my SATA ports are in
> use on my desktop PC. They are SLOW - but they work fine.


Thank you! I missed that. Multiple times, apparently.


----------



## drhankz

Robin said:


> Thank you! I missed that. Multiple times, apparently.


There is a lot there. I had to PRINT out the instructions 
and Yellow Highlight everything that applied to my project
and equipment.

It is easy to miss.


----------



## Kyrian

I upgraded my stock Tivo HD drive last weekend after my MY DVR EXPANDER seemed to be failing (with constant lockups and rebooting while watching certain recorded programs). I opted for the WD10EADS 1TB drive as my replacement and followed the instructions provided in the Drive Expansion sticky. I was a little reluctant to do the upgrade myself, since I've never done a hard drive swap before, and I couldn't really find any instructions pertaining to Mac users upgrading their drives with WinMFS and a PC emulator (such as VMWare Fusion). This was my experience, which I hope is helpful to someone out there: 

I first tried using a my wife's PC laptop to image the drives, but because she didn't have administrative privileges on the machine (it's her work device), WinMFS didn't show the stock and replacement drives while they were connected with SATA-USB adapters. I then decided to try WinMFS on my Mac using WMWare Fusion. Luckily for me the drives were both recognized by Windows XP and within WinMFS, so I followed the instructions and began to image the new drive. It took 9 or 10 hours to complete imaging the new drive (from the 160GB stock drive), but once it finished, I closed out WinMFS and disconnected the drives. After installing the new drive, my Tivo got stuck in a reboot loop. I tried a Kickstart 57, but that exacerbated things and ended in the GSOD. 

I decided to reimage the new drive overnight a second time, but this time after the imaging was complete I made sure I shut down VMWare Fusion before disconnecting the hard drives. I'm not sure if that made the difference or not, or if my first failed attempt to image the new drive was a fluke, but once I reconnected the new drive to my Tivo, everything was up and running perfectly-----157 HD hours capacity now, and it preserved all my recordings and settings from the original stock drive. 

Moral of the story for Mac users looking to upgrade their Tivo drives with WinMFS using a PC emulator such as VMWare Fusion------Follow the FAQ instructions exactly, and especially make sure you shut down your PC emulator (whether VMWare Fusion, Boot Camp, etc.) completely before disconnecting your drives (whether from SATA connections or USB-SATA cables). 

I wish I would have realized that the first time around, as I probably could have saved myself some time. Special thanks to the authors of WinMFS and the Drive Upgrade sticky. I couldn't have done it without you!


----------



## richsadams

Kyrian said:


> I upgraded my stock Tivo HD drive last weekend after my MY DVR EXPANDER seemed to be failing (with constant lockups and rebooting while watching certain recorded programs). I opted for the WD10EADS 1TB drive as my replacement and followed the instructions provided in the Drive Expansion sticky. I was a little reluctant to do the upgrade myself, since I've never done a hard drive swap before, and I couldn't really find any instructions pertaining to Mac users upgrading their drives with WinMFS and a PC emulator (such as VMWare Fusion). This was my experience, which I hope is helpful to someone out there: <snip>


That's excellent information! :up: Although I used to build computers I ran screaming from Windows machines a while ago and have never looked back. I couldn't be happier with my Mac's but I've kept one of my PC's just for TiVo upgrades (plus it was my "ultimate" custom-built machine and I just can't part with it  ).

In any case I run VMWare Fusion on my MacBook to test some work with server and design programs in a Windows enviroment and always wondered if it would handle a TiVo upgrade. You've answered my question! (But I still don't think I can part with my precious  )

Again, good info and thanks very much for posting.

*bkdtv*: I think it might be worthwhile to insert a little blurb using Kyrian's notes in the FAQ for those Mac users that follow. What do you think?


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Since I have 3 THD's and only intend to upgrade the one I did yesterday to 157 hours, I wonder why it is not suggested that you remove the HDD from the THD even if you are not going to upgrade, and even leave it on its cradle and perform a backup before the HDD goes bad. If this is done, you can buy a new HDD and loose only some shows, but you save yourself from having to deal with cable cards again if you did not have a backup image to restore to a new drive!


That's not a bad idea...would certainly save some hassles down the road if a drive does fail. I don't think most "normal" folks would be up for it though. We enthusiasts are a little twisted when it comes to such things (or so I'm told).


----------



## fidget13a

fidget13a said:


> Good morning,
> I tried instantcake on my !B WD10EADS drive but did not have success. Can I now try to use the WinMFS program? If so, do I need to do anything to the drive first since I already tried the instantcake program?
> 
> thanks


Sorry but I figured I would ask this again. I would like to try the WinMFS program and hope for more luck with the harddrive. I do not know if I have to reformat or anything before I try to load it on this drive after already tried to put instant cake on it. Thanks


----------



## bkdtv

fidget13a said:


> Sorry but I figured I would ask this again. I would like to try the WinMFS program and hope for more luck with the harddrive. I do not know if I have to reformat or anything before I try to load it on this drive after already tried to put instant cake on it. Thanks


You can format the new drive (don't format the original Tivo drive!), but that shouldn't be necessary. WinMFS should be able to overwrite the old partition.


----------



## fidget13a

bkdtv said:


> You can format the new drive (don't format the original Tivo drive!), but that shouldn't be necessary. WinMFS should be able to overwrite the old partition.


Thanks....I will give it a try a little later


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> That's not a bad idea...would certainly save some hassles down the road if a drive does fail. I don't think most "normal" folks would be up for it though. We enthusiasts are a little twisted when it comes to such things (or so I'm told).


Well, I think I will do that. The advantage is that we do not have to remove the original drive from the cradle and will not void the warranty. It sure could save us from a lot of trouble in the future especially for non-uprgaded TiVo's. Why? Because for upgraded TiVo's we always have the original to put back in to see if that was the problem.


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> The advantage is that we do not have to remove the original drive from the cradle and will not void the warranty.


Well...sort of. If you open TiVo at all, for any reason, it technically voids the warranty. But as long as you don't leave any bread crumbs behind, it's not likely anyone would know. 

Good idea though...glad you thought of it. :up:


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Well...sort of. If you open TiVo at all, for any reason, it technically voids the warranty. But as long as you don't leave any bread crumbs behind, it's not likely anyone would know.
> 
> Good idea though...glad you thought of it. :up:


It is amazing what I can do when I can see! 
I guess the key is to do the backup before there is a problem...kind of like the TrueImage Backups I do on our Windows systems!


----------



## cuppingmaster

richsadams said:


> Congrats on the upgrade...and apparently your ability to see again!
> 
> With regard to #3...it's easy to miss. It's the second option under the "Fantasy Formatting" drop down menu, right after "Create Free TiVo Subscription - Y/N".
> 
> Thanks for the tool time tip. I'll have to find that Harbor Freight place. :up:


Maybe this is a dumb question, but...

Increase MY time? Fantasy Formatting? What are those things and what do they allow you to do?


----------



## MPSAN

cuppingmaster said:


> Maybe this is a dumb question, but...
> 
> Increase MY time? Fantasy Formatting? What are those things and what do they allow you to do?


Sorry...notice the faces...it was a joke. I said I now did the upgrade and had 157 hours but how do I expand the free time in my life to ever watch that much...just a joke that's all and Rich tried to "play along" by suggesting that there were options in WinMFS that I missed!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Sorry...notice the faces...it was a joke. I said I now did the upgrade and had 157 hours but how do I expand the free time in my life to ever watch that much...just a joke that's all and Rich tried to "play along" by suggesting that there were options in WinMFS that I missed!


Nope...dead serious. I'm sure, really sure you missed those menus.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Nope...dead serious. I'm sure, really sure you missed those menus.


...but my eyes!!!


----------



## cuppingmaster

I kinda thought so, but just checking. Thanks for the clarification!

On a related note, has anyone tried this one

Seagate 1.5 TB Serial ATA/300, ST315005N1A1AS-RK 

On sale at Fry's right now.


----------



## bkdtv

cuppingmaster said:


> I kinda thought so, but just checking. Thanks for the clarification!
> 
> On a related note, has anyone tried this one
> 
> Seagate 1.5 TB Serial ATA/300, ST315005N1A1AS-RK
> 
> On sale at Fry's right now.


Remember, the TivoHD can only use a maximum of 1.26GB.

The linked drive will work to give you 1.26TB usable on a TivoHD, but I think you'd be better off with the Seagate ST31500541AS or the Western Digital WD15EVDS. Both produce noticeably less noise.


----------



## kingmob

Kyrian said:


> 157 HD hours capacity now, and it preserved all my recordings and settings from the original stock drive.


Were you also able to preserve the recordings that were split between the stock drive and the Expander?

My Expander also seems to be failing, so I'm about to do this upgrade myself. Reading the forums here and at mfslive.org, it seems that using the MFSLive Boot CD is required to copy the internal drive and Expander to a new internal drive, if it can be done at all.

I'd be very glad to hear that it's possible using WinMFS, and that it can be done using Fusion, since that's my plan, as well.


----------



## fidget13a

Help Again...... I am trying to copy to a 1TB using and external drive ..sata to usb. I copied the original drive and shut down and started back up. I picked run as administrator and then file. What drive do I check,. It shows the original drive up top and then a drive "B" at the bottom. But that drive above it says if you want to add a second drive or have two drives in the TIVO. Over to the right there is a little box where you can check show drive or something. I did not see anything that said select the new replacement SATA drive.

When it was done, it did not ask me if I wanted to supersize it. But I did go to tools and clicked on supersize it.


Thanks

Guess I need to look back through this thread. I took a chance and clicked that box. It said done so I put it in my TIVO. It booted up but only shows the 21 hours of HD and not the 157.????


----------



## MPSAN

fidget13a said:


> Help Again...... I am trying to copy to a 1TB using and external drive ..sata to usb. I copied the original drive and shut down and started back up. I picked run as administrator and then file. What drive do I check,. It shows the original drive up top and then a drive "B" at the bottom. But that drive above it says if you want to add a second drive or have two drives in the TIVO. Over to the right there is a little box where you can check show drive or something. I did not see anything that said select the new replacement SATA drive.
> 
> When it was done, it did not ask me if I wanted to supersize it. But I did go to tools and clicked on supersize it. That is just before the supersize step.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Guess I need to look back through this thread. I took a chance and clicked that box. It said done so I put it in my TIVO. It booted up but only shows the 21 hours of HD and not the 157.????


After mfscopy, you should have been asked if you wish to expand the drive, where you then click yes.I think this is Step 15. It is just before you would do a supersize.


----------



## fidget13a

MPSAN said:


> After mfscopy, you should have been asked if you wish to expand the drive, where you then click yes.I think this is Step 15. It is just before you would do a supersize.


Thanks

For some reason it did not ask me that. It was working in the TIVO but only said 21 hd hours and then it just powered up again on it's own. It got stuck in the powering up screen and then grey screen.
I tried the program again on a different computer.It froze the first attempt but worked the second time. This time it did ask me if I wanted to expand. When I put it in the TIVO, the first attempt to boot up it went to powering up to the grey screeen. I figured I would try again and it WORKED! 157 hours

Now I have to unplug it and actually screw everything in like it should be. That is now two TIVO's down and one more to go when my other hard drive arrives.

THANKS everyone for your help. I do like this program better than instantcake since I do not need to get the cable card re-hit again.

oh oh...as I was typing this teh TIVO screen froze. :-(


----------



## fidget13a

I hit the live TV button on the remote and the TIVO is working 


It is having some kind of problem still. There is some hesitation or stuttering . It does not pixillate but it is briefly hesitating. It did freeze one more time also.any suggestions??/thanks


Should I run guided setup again?


----------



## bkdtv

fidget13a said:


> I hit the live TV button on the remote and the TIVO is working
> 
> It is having some kind of problem still. There is some hesitation or stuttering . It does not pixillate but it is briefly hesitating. It did freeze one more time also.any suggestions??/thanks
> 
> Should I run guided setup again?


If you performed a truncated backup and restore, the TiVo will have to reindex the guide data. The TiVo does this in the background, so it will slow responsiveness for 48-72 hours. After that, your TiVo should be back to normal.


----------



## fidget13a

bkdtv said:


> If you performed a truncated backup and restore, the TiVo will have to reindex the guide data. The TiVo does this in the background, so it will slow responsiveness for 48-72 hours. After that, your TiVo should be back to normal.


Thanks..................that makes me feel a lot better.


----------



## fidget13a

Me again :-(
The TV kept stuttering and freezing so I turned the TV off and went in the other room to watch TV. When I cam back in and turned on the TV, the TV started to power up again. It quickly went to a gray or black screen and did not go any further. I tried to unplug and restart 3 or 4 more times and the powering up screen comes on for a few seconds and then it goes to the grey or black screen. Guess I may not be fixed yet. Any suggestions???


----------



## richsadams

fidget13a said:


> Me again :-(
> The TV kept stuttering and freezing so I turned the TV off and went in the other room to watch TV. When I cam back in and turned on the TV, the TV started to power up again. It quickly went to a gray or black screen and did not go any further. I tried to unplug and restart 3 or 4 more times and the powering up screen comes on for a few seconds and then it goes to the grey or black screen. Guess I may not be fixed yet. Any suggestions???


I had the same experience once. It sounds like some data corruption during your upgrade process. Best bet would be to start from scratch...re-image the drive and be sure to follow all of the steps correctly. You won't need to do anything to the new drive to start again, winMFS will overwrite everything. It's kind of a PIA, but it'll be worth the peace of mind even if it does start acting normally.

Since you initially had problems with your drive using IC, it's also quite possible that your new drive has some bad sectors or other problems. If re-imaging doesn't work you might want to run a diagnostic on it such as WD's Lifeguard. Note that it might pass the "quick test" so you should run the extended test (read/write/read) which takes about 12 hours IIRC. If it fails you can process the exchange on your own by going to the Western Digital Product Replacement site OR you can call Western Digital Customer Support at 1-800-ASK-WDC (275-4932) to have an agent process the exchange.

Best of luck and let us know how things go.


----------



## Dssturbo1

cuppingmaster said:


> I kinda thought so, but just checking. Thanks for the clarification!
> 
> On a related note, has anyone tried this one
> 
> Seagate 1.5 TB Serial ATA/300, ST315005N1A1AS-RK On sale at Fry's right now.


yes, I used that Seagate 1.5Tb hard drive model in my Tivo S3. with the limits it only uses 1.35Tb in the S3 but that's cool and it works fine, no noise and gives me 213 HD hours.


----------



## fidget13a

richsadams said:


> I had the same experience once. It sounds like some data corruption during your upgrade process. Best bet would be to start from scratch...re-image the drive and be sure to follow all of the steps correctly. You won't need to do anything to the new drive to start again, winMFS will overwrite everything. It's kind of a PIA, but it'll be worth the peace of mind even if it does start acting normally.
> 
> Since you initially had problems with your drive using IC, it's also quite possible that your new drive has some bad sectors or other problems. If re-imaging doesn't work you might want to run a diagnostic on it such as WD's Lifeguard. Note that it might pass the "quick test" so you should run the extended test (read/write/read) which takes about 12 hours IIRC. If it fails you can process the exchange on your own by going to the Western Digital Product Replacement site OR you can call Western Digital Customer Support at 1-800-ASK-WDC (275-4932) to have an agent process the exchange.
> 
> Best of luck and let us know how things go.


I just tried to run the extended test in WD and I guess I received a bad harddrive from Dell. It was only 18 minutes in to the test and it stopped running and gave teh message of too many back sectors.


----------



## richsadams

fidget13a said:


> I just tried to run the extended test in WD and I guess I received a bad harddrive from Dell. It was only 18 minutes in to the test and it stopped running and gave teh message of too many back sectors.


Sorry to hear that...but kind of what I suspected. Dell (at least in my previous experience) is very good about replacing things so you might want to start with them. Otherwise WD should be able to handle it...they also get high marks for warranty service from others here.

At least when you get a new drive you should be able to find some joy. Might be a good idea to run the diagnostics on the replacement drive before you do anything else though.

Keep us posted.


----------



## fidget13a

richsadams said:


> Sorry to hear that...but kind of what I suspected. Dell (at least in my previous experience) is very good about replacing things so you might want to start with them. Otherwise WD should be able to handle it...they also get high marks for warranty service from others here.
> 
> At least when you get a new drive you should be able to find some joy. Might be a good idea to run the diagnostics on the replacement drive before you do anything else though.
> 
> Keep us posted.


 I didn't think about calling Dell until after I called WD for an RMA. WD is sending out a new drive. The only problem is I heard they may send out a refurbished drive. If so, I wish I called Dell instead.

And now I know it was not me screwing up and it was the drive instead.

I tried to call Dell and have been bounced back and forth between departments. Everyone says they can not handle it in their department. Last person said.....Can you go online and try to get help from online? I was afraid WD may send a refub and figured Dell would send a new one. I figured I would cancel the WD if Dell took care of the problem but it looks like I will need to stick with WD. At least WD is taking care of it without a problem.


----------



## Kyrian

kingmob said:


> Were you also able to preserve the recordings that were split between the stock drive and the Expander?
> 
> My Expander also seems to be failing, so I'm about to do this upgrade myself. Reading the forums here and at mfslive.org, it seems that using the MFSLive Boot CD is required to copy the internal drive and Expander to a new internal drive, if it can be done at all.
> 
> I'd be very glad to hear that it's possible using WinMFS, and that it can be done using Fusion, since that's my plan, as well.


Sorry if that wasn't clear. I didn't try salvaging my recordings from the Expander. There wasn't anything on the Expander I couldn't really live without, so I didn't want to add that complication to my first time attempting the HD upgrade.) The recordings I was able to keep were the ones recorded to the original HD before I added the Expander about 18 months ago.


----------



## richsadams

kingmob said:


> My Expander also seems to be failing, so I'm about to do this upgrade myself. Reading the forums here and at mfslive.org, it seems that using the MFSLive Boot CD is required to copy the internal drive and Expander to a new internal drive, if it can be done at all.
> 
> I'd be very glad to hear that it's possible using WinMFS, and that it can be done using Fusion, since that's my plan, as well.


Successfully combining drives depends on how they were "married". See my post here including a link to Spike's MFSLive forum responses on the subject.


----------



## jmanca

I added the certified 1TB WD drive to our TiVo HD and now everything is super slow - the menus basically freeze and the commands get backed up..... uggh. Suggestions?


----------



## innocentfreak

How did you do the drive? Did you use Instantcake or did you copy from your original drive? If you used Instantcake it will have to redownload and index all the guide data again as if you were opening the Tivo for the first time. I would give it 48 hours and see if that fixes the issue. 

If you copied everything from your original drive I don't believe you should see any slowdown but I may be wrong since I have yet to upgrade my drives on the series 3.


----------



## ThAbtO

jmanca said:


> I added the certified 1TB WD drive to our TiVo HD and now everything is super slow - the menus basically freeze and the commands get backed up..... uggh. Suggestions?





innocentfreak said:


> How did you do the drive? Did you use Instantcake or did you copy from your original drive?


He didn't do the internal drive, he added the Expander.


----------



## bkdtv

jmanca said:


> I added the certified 1TB WD drive to our TiVo HD and now everything is super slow - the menus basically freeze and the commands get backed up..... uggh. Suggestions?


Power off your TiVo and then double-check your connections -- make sure the cable is inserted firmly as possible on both the TiVo and the My DVR Expander.


----------



## kingmob

richsadams said:


> Successfully combining drives depends on how they were "married". See my post here including a link to Spike's MFSLive forum responses on the subject.


Thanks, Rich.

I've been through a number of the threads here and at mfslive.org researching the issue, and understand Spike's statements are pretty much conclusive. But there are posts like the one I responded to in which someone isn't completely clear about what they did, but it seems like they might have gotten an original internal drive + Expander to new drive transfer to work, so I keep asking for clarification, just in case.


----------



## fidget13a

Good morning again,
I figured I would ask ths before my replacement drive arrives. It says:

Drives marketed for DVRs come preconfigured with firmware settings to minimize noise. Most other drives, including the Western Digital WD10EADS and WD10EACS, come configured for best desktop performance, not the lowest possible noise.

Do I adjust the AAM settings on the WD10EADS before or after I install the TIVO program on it?

Thanks again


----------



## bkdtv

fidget13a said:


> Do I adjust the AAM settings on the WD10EADS before or after I install the TIVO program on it?


It shouldn't matter. If you want to be safe, do it first.


----------



## MPSAN

bkdtv said:


> It shouldn't matter. If you want to be safe, do it first.


Yup and I did mine after without an issue. I did use HDDSCAN, however, as the Hitachi tools did not like my newer ICH10R SATA controller. HDDSCAN is a Windows app and it found the drive. It does not install anything, you just click the .EXE.


----------



## siratfus

My 4 months old tivo HDXL is stuck in the "powering up" screen. I'm planning on doing an upgrade to a 2tb hard drive. I want to save all settings and recordings. I would like to know is it a requirement to follow those exact instructions from page 1 of this thread that involves downloading winMFS? Or is page 1 simply offering 1 of many methods? Because the way that I know how to clone a hard drive involves a software called called Apricorn EZ gig II.

If anybody can give some advice. Thank you!


----------



## bkdtv

siratfus said:


> My 4 months old tivo HDXL is stuck in the "powering up" screen. I'm planning on doing an upgrade to a 2tb hard drive. I want to save all settings and recordings. I would like to know is it a requirement to follow those exact instructions from page 1 of this thread that involves downloading winMFS? Or is page 1 simply offering 1 of many methods? Because the way that I know how to clone a hard drive involves a software called called Apricorn EZ gig II


You need to follow the instructions in the first post. WinMFS and MFSLive are your options. Other cloning methods do not work.


----------



## Sebjar

Hi there,

I'm new to the group but wanted to find out if an Acomdata 1TB drive works with a TIVO Series 3 unit? 

I read that the Acomdata drives do work with DVR's but I can't seem to get mine working with our TIVO. It keeps telling me there aren't any external devices connected. 

So I was wondering if the drive had to be formatted a certain way or these drives just don't connect to TIVO with the esata cable. 

Any advice or help would really be appreciated. Thanks.

Seb


----------



## richsadams

siratfus said:


> My 4 months old tivo HDXL is stuck in the "powering up" screen. I'm planning on doing an upgrade to a 2tb hard drive. I want to save all settings and recordings. I would like to know is it a requirement to follow those exact instructions from page 1 of this thread that involves downloading winMFS? Or is page 1 simply offering 1 of many methods? Because the way that I know how to clone a hard drive involves a software called called Apricorn EZ gig II.
> 
> If anybody can give some advice (and is responsible for the awesome FAQ). Thank you!


bkdtv offers sound advice. Follow the instructions exactly and you should be fine.


----------



## richsadams

Sebjar said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I'm new to the group but wanted to find out if an Acomdata 1TB drive works with a TIVO Series 3 unit?
> 
> I read that the Acomdata drives do work with DVR's but I can't seem to get mine working with our TIVO. It keeps telling me there aren't any external devices connected.
> 
> So I was wondering if the drive had to be formatted a certain way or these drives just don't connect to TIVO with the esata cable.
> 
> Any advice or help would really be appreciated. Thanks.
> 
> Seb


Welcome to the forum. AFAIK the drive you're trying to use in an unknown. There are a few other drives that do not work, hence the recommended drive list in the first post of this sticky. You do not need to (and should not) format an eSATA drive to use w/TiVo.

First, do you actually have a TiVo Series3 (http://i37.tinypic.com/4lhmiq.jpg)? Or is it a TiVo HD (http://i43.tinypic.com/2nqy554.jpg)? The TiVo Series3 is capable of utilizing an "unapproved" eSATA drive via plug and play (providing the internal drive has not been upgraded and again, some eSATA drives do not work). The TiVo HD can only utilize the approved WD My DVR Expander (www.tivo.com/expand) via plug and play.

That said there are a number of things that can go wrong when adding an eSATA drive. The eSATA hard drive itself may not be working, the enclosure may have problems (chipset, bridge, etc.) or the eSATA cable may not be working (usually due to faulty/short connectors). Or it may just not be compatible due to the hardware and/or firmware configuration.

Have another read through the first post on this sticky thread and see if you're doing everything right. Bottom line is that if you are, that drive just may not work. Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


----------



## fidget13a

fidget13a said:


> I tried to call Dell and have been bounced back and forth between departments. Everyone says they can not handle it in their department. Last person said.....Can you go online and try to get help from online? I was afraid WD may send a refub and figured Dell would send a new one. I figured I would cancel the WD if Dell took care of the problem but it looks like I will need to stick with WD. At least WD is taking care of it without a problem.


I emailed Dell about how I got bounced around on the phone. They apologized and sent me a $50 online coupon.


----------



## fidget13a

Here I am again looking for more advice. :-( I got one of my new WD 1TB harddrives in and tried to install again. I tried three times but it does not ask me if I want to expand the drive. Any suggestions why it is not asking me? Thanks


----------



## MPSAN

fidget13a said:


> Here I am again looking for more advice. :-( I got one of my new WD 1TB harddrives in and tried to install again. I tried three times but it does not ask me if I want to expand the drive. Any suggestions why it is not asking me? Thanks


Is it possible that it is behind the main window? Also, are you running anything else while you are doing this? WinMFS is known to not update if you switch over to other running tasks like Browsing the web to kill time.


----------



## fidget13a

MPSAN said:


> Is it possible that it is behind the main window? Also, are you running anything else while you are doing this? WinMFS is known to not update if you switch over to other running tasks like Browsing the web to kill time.


I closed the window and did not see anything there either. I started form scratch again and put it n the TIVO to see for sure and it only shows 21 hours HD. When the computer reboots there are a few things running like AIM and I shut them down before I go any further. last week when I tried the other drive...the first time this happened but then I did it again and everything was OK. Maybe I will try the computer in the other room. :-(

Thanks

I just noticed that Norton Antivirus was still running in back ground. I think it worked last time when I disabled it. Will try that and try to redo the drive again.


----------



## MPSAN

fidget13a said:


> I closed the window and did not see anything there either. I started form scratch again and put it n the TIVO to see for sure and it only shows 21 hours HD. When the computer reboots there are a few things running like AIM and I shut them down before I go any further. last week when I tried the other drive...the first time this happened but then I did it again and everything was OK. Maybe I will try the computer in the other room. :-(
> 
> Thanks
> 
> I just noticed that Norton Antivirus was still running in back ground. I think it worked last time when I disabled it. Will try that and try to redo the drive again.


YES, the instructions state to turn off NAV, etc. I know I DID!


----------



## fidget13a

MPSAN said:


> YES, the instructions state to turn off NAV, etc. I know I DID!


Still no luck getting the expand question. would it anything to do with me running WD diagnostics on the drive before I started to do anything? It also ask me a different question the first time I tried it but unfortunately I can not remember the pop up that came on the screen. :-(


----------



## bkdtv

fidget13a said:


> Still no luck getting the expand question. would it anything to do with me running WD diagnostics on the drive before I started to do anything? It also ask me a different question the first time I tried it but unfortunately I can not remember the pop up that came on the screen. :-(


If it does not ask you the question, you can always select Tools -> Mfsadd to expand manually.

You should then use Tools->Mfsinfo to verify that you have 144-157 HD hours on the new drive.


----------



## fidget13a

I did it on the other computer and IT WORKED!!!  It is showing 157 hours HD. What is crazy is.....last week it did not work on the other computer but worked on this one. Just the opposite. Now I will try it out a while before I screw everything back together to make sure drive is not defected like one last week.

thanks everyone for your patience and help.


----------



## kingmob

Kyrian said:


> Sorry if that wasn't clear. I didn't try salvaging my recordings from the Expander. There wasn't anything on the Expander I couldn't really live without, so I didn't want to add that complication to my first time attempting the HD upgrade.) The recordings I was able to keep were the ones recorded to the original HD before I added the Expander about 18 months ago.


Thanks for the clarification--I missed your reply earlier. I had quite an adventure trying to save my recordings and wasn't successful anyway. I finally just accepted it, divorced the Expander, and copied the original internal drive to a new WD10EADS.


----------



## mooneydriver

I have a Tivo S3 with an upgraded internal drive and an external drive. When I upgraded these drives a couple of years ago, the MFSSuperSize option was not turned on. Is it possible to turn on this option on BOTH of these drives now, or would I be playing with fire?


----------



## sweez

Just wanted to report that I successfully upgraded my Tivo HD using the WD10EADS drive. The instructions were perfect and exact. Thanks OP.

I had two USB2/SATA enclosures for the transfer. Didnt bother doing the backup, but it still took about 3 hours and 45 minutes. 

Also, went to set the AAM option using HDDScan. Curious, I checked the drive's information via Identity Info and said AAM was already Enabled, but the current value was still 254. Decided not to change the value for now to see if drive works quiet enough without changing the value.

Update: drive is pretty quiet even without changing setting.


----------



## TiVoToo

Just recently upgraded my home NAS from 1.5TB to 2.0TB due to a good deal on a pair of 1TB HDD. This left me with a pair of WD7500AACS-00ZJB0 HDD that were originally installed in the NAS. One idea i had to utilize these 'leftover' HDD is to use them for an internal drive upgrade on a pair of S3 that I own. Reading through the forums, I see that there is a soft reboot problem using WD GP 1TB for S3 internal upgrade. However, I am unable to find a definitive answer as to whether this problem extends to the older WD GP 750GB model above. I'm hoping someone in this forum can provide an answer.
If I install these drives and they do cause a hang on a soft reboot, I assume hang can be corrected when it occurs by cycling power to the S3? If that is the case, I might be willing to live with it. The only downside appears to be that no scheduled recordings would occur after a soft reboot and a soft reboot should only happen after a firmware upgrade (can't recall last time I commanded a restart/reboot). Firmware upgrades on S3 are infrequent.


----------



## bkdtv

sweez said:


> Also, went to set the AAM option using HDDScan. Curious, I checked the drive's information via Identity Info and said AAM was already Enabled, but the current value was still 254. Decided not to change the value for now to see if drive works quiet enough without changing the value.


An AAM value of 255 means disabled. Anything less means enabled, I believe.

On the WD10EADS, there is a significant difference between an AAM of 128 and 254 from one foot away. You may or may not hear the difference from your seating location; that would depend on your distance, hearing, and room's ambient noise level.


----------



## bkdtv

TiVoToo said:


> Just recently upgraded my home NAS from 1.5TB to 2.0TB due to a good deal on a pair of 1TB HDD. This left me with a pair of WD7500AACS-00ZJB0 HDD that were originally installed in the NAS. One idea i had to utilize these 'leftover' HDD is to use them for an internal drive upgrade on a pair of S3 that I own. Reading through the forums, I see that there is a soft reboot problem using WD GP 1TB for S3 internal upgrade. However, I am unable to find a definitive answer as to whether this problem extends to the older WD GP 750GB model above. I'm hoping someone in this forum can provide an answer.


The 500GB and 1TB versions of the AACS-00ZJB0 exhibit the "soft reboot" problem on the TiVo Series3, so it's probably a good bet that the 750GB version does too.



TiVoToo said:


> If I install these drives and they do cause a hang on a soft reboot, I assume hang can be corrected when it occurs by cycling power to the S3?


That's correct, but I would not discount the issue.

If you your power goes out briefly, or TiVo installs a software update, then your TiVo will be stuck on the boot screen until you pull the plug. Unless your TiVo is connected to a UPS, I would probably just spend the $80-90 to buy a 1TB drive that works without that issue.


----------



## TiVoToo

bkdtv said:


> The 500GB and 1TB versions of the AACS-00ZJB0 exhibit the "soft reboot" problem on the TiVo Series3, so it's probably a good bet that the 750GB version does too.
> 
> If you your power goes our briefly, or TiVo installs a software update, then your TiVo will be stuck on the boot screen until you pull the plug. Unless your TiVo is connected to a UPS, I would probably just spend the $80-90 to buy a 1TB drive that works without that issue.


Thanks for info. You confirmed my suspicions. Both S3 are on UPS, so I might try the upgrade on 'his' S3 and leave 'hers' alone (I wouldn't be able to tolerate the grief I'd get if 'her' TiVo missed some recordings 'cause I messed with it. ) I wouldn't buy a new drive just for this upgrade. Only reason I considered to begin with is that I hate to see good drives go unused and I have some drives to re-purpose.

[Update] Can confirm that the WD7500AACS-00ZJB0 HDD, when installed as internal drive in S3, will cause TiVo to hang at Welcome screen upon soft restart/reboot. For now, I've decided to leave the drive installed to see if I can live with this anomaly. Since the S3 is on a UPS, I would expect only time the hang should occur is when TiVo pushes a firmware update (fingers crossed).


----------



## mchief

NewEgg has the 1TB WD10EADS on sale for 74.99 with promo code EMCLWNS37 until 11:59pm PDT today and free shipping.


----------



## Big Boy Laroux

Long time lurker, occasional poster...

Just wanted to say a big THANK YOU for this thread. I just upgraded my TiVo HD to 1 TB and these instuctions could not have been more easy to follow. I do have experience with computer components, but this is a great FAQ for ANYONE. 

I did have my TiVo hooked up with the DVR expander, but i had one of those fail on me last year. It was still under warranty, so i got a replacement - but i'd much rather NOT have that extra point of failure. I'm just going to use the DVR expander for a backup PC drive (which i was in the market for anyway).


----------



## richsadams

Big Boy Laroux said:


> Long time lurker, occasional poster...
> 
> Just wanted to say a big THANK YOU for this thread. I just upgraded my TiVo HD to 1 TB <snip>


Welcome to the club! :up:


----------



## fidget13a

Well......................my replacement drive from Western Digital finally arrived and I tried to install the program on it again. Guess What ! 

I guess three is a charm because it seems to be working great on my FIRST attempt.

Thanks again everyone for all your patience and help.


----------



## richsadams

fidget13a said:


> I guess three is a charm because it seems to be working great on my FIRST attempt. .


Finally! Phew! :up: Enjoy!


----------



## innocentfreak

Has anyone compared speed of the drives after upgrading? I know when I upgraded my Series 2 Directivos they seemed to get faster but that may have just been due to the jump to Sata with an adapter. 

I keep going back and forth about upgrading. I keep hoping the EVVS drives will drop in price so I am tempted to use the EADS since they are so much cheaper but I know I can tell the difference on my computer based on which drive I am accessing so I am afraid it will be the same on the Tivo HD. It already feels slower than the series 2 to me but it is tolerable. I can't imagine them much slower though.


----------



## jlib

innocentfreak said:


> Has anyone compared speed of the drives after upgrading? ...I know I can tell the difference on my computer based on which drive I am accessing so I am afraid it will be the same on the Tivo HD.


It is fairly well accepted now that having a high performance drive gets you nothing with the TiVo. Some people still do it but they are also those who put premiun in their Civic. Even when recording 2 channels and playing back another recording the drive is actually doing nothing for the majority of the time. A modern hard drive is so fast, even when acoustically detuned or when running at 5400RPM, that the the TiVo is not a challenge. It is not intuitively apparent but when you calculate the actual throughput requirements and the read/write burst speeds of the drive to/from cache it is the TiVo that can't keep up with the drive not the other way around.


----------



## jlib

sweez said:


> ...Also, went to set the AAM option using HDDScan. Curious, I checked the drive's information via Identity Info and said AAM was already Enabled, but the current value was still 254. Decided not to change the value for now to see if drive works quiet enough without changing the value.


Automatic Acoustic Management (AAM) is more of method than a state. Since it is an optional feature of the ATA standards it has to be enabled by the manufacturer. So, if you have a drive with AAM enabled that means you can use software tools to adjust the setting. 254 is the default performance setting. 128 is the detuned setting desired for the TiVo. As you mentioned, that drive is particularly quiet compared to most drives in its default state but it can be quieted even further.


----------



## jlib

TiVoToo said:


> ...Can confirm that the WD7500AACS-00ZJB0 HDD, when installed as internal drive in S3, will cause TiVo to hang at Welcome screen upon soft restart/reboot. For now, I've decided to leave the drive installed to see if I can live with this anomaly.


Back when 1TB drives were much, much more expensive than now I intentionally installed a WD drive in my S3 even after it was known it had a soft reboot problem because I was able to get the drive for free (sort of like your situation). I agree with bkdtv, though, that with current prices as low as they are it is not the best path to follow. However, since we have both done it I can tell you it is very manageable, at least for someone who lurks on these message threads because you will pretty much be alerted to pending new software upgrades by discussions here so when I notice that I just start checking the system information menu before closing down for the night and if I notice a "Pending Restart" message (auto reboots happen in the wee hours of the morning when the TiVo is least likely to be used) I manually power down and restart. And even if I do miss it I will notice it the next morning (the S3 LED display will tell you it is trying to reboot even with TV off). This mysterious problem has no other repercussions. So, in my case the annoyance was worth several hundred dollars but I wouldn't do it again now.


----------



## alyssa

Amazon has the Western Digital WD10EVVS for $92.29 w/free ship

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001VKY8FG/ref=ox_ya_oh_product


----------



## innocentfreak

I may have to jump on one since I do have a $25 gift certificate to Amazon.


----------



## keenanSR

That's a decent price, I just paid $101 for it from Amazon a few weeks ago.


----------



## alyssa

Yeah, I've been reluctant to jump because I'll have to lose all my recordings to upgrade. However at that price and since I had a $25 coupon burning a hole, I just *had* too. 
Or so goes the expiation to the hubby <grin>

Interestingly, I used supersaver shipping & the order entered the preparing faze almost as soon as I placed it. That says to me their warehouse is slow. I've had it take 5 days to enter the preparing faze before.


----------



## innocentfreak

alyssa said:


> Yeah, I've been reluctant to jump because I'll have to lose all my recordings to upgrade. However at that price and since I had a $25 coupon burning a hole, I just *had* too.
> Or so goes the expiation to the hubby <grin>
> 
> Interestingly, I used supersaver shipping & the order entered the preparing faze almost as soon as I placed it. That says to me their warehouse is slow. I've had it take 5 days to enter the preparing faze before.


With WinMFS you should be able to copy over your recordings and season passes unless there is some limitation on the series 3/Tivo HD I am unaware of.

EDIT: oh and where did you get a $25 coupon or did you mean gift certificate?


----------



## lrhorer

fidget13a said:


> Well......................my replacement drive from Western Digital finally arrived and I tried to install the program on it again. Guess What !
> 
> I guess three is a charm because it seems to be working great on my FIRST attempt.
> 
> Thanks again everyone for all your patience and help.


Any attempt to do something one has never done before can be daunting prior to the attempt. There is little more frightening than the unknown. When one has made a moderate investment in an item and seeks to make modifications which it is known can result in causing the unit to cease to function, there is definitely a natural, "Oh, my!" response. With that in mind, I applaud anyone who decides to take the plunge, and have no criticism of anyone of limited technical expertise who decides the process is just too risky for them. That said, the whole process is really quite simple in execution. There are indeed several variables one must consider when upgrading and a handful of different actual paths one may take depending on one's preferred outcome, but once one has properly assessed one's situation and chosen an appropriate upgrade method, the actual process is really quite straightforward. In addition, while any process, and in particular any upgrade process can go awry, the number of ways a TiVo upgrade can fail are comparatively limited, and recovery from a failure in all but the most unusual cases is similarly straightforward. If one reads the first post in this FAQ carefully, posts any questions here to clarify anything which is unclear to the reader, understands fully all the prerequisites, and sticks to the process closely, then one is all but assured of success.

I strongly suggest anyone of any level of technical expertise choose an upgrade path which includes a reliable and handy backup strategy. Indeed, my best suggestion is to remove and copy the primary drive to whatever primary medium is being used for the upgrade, then set aside the original drive for backup and safekeeping. Then if one manages to trash the other drive(s), or eventually suffers a drive failure, one can be back online in a matter of a few minutes.


----------



## lrhorer

TiVoToo said:


> [Update] Can confirm that the WD7500AACS-00ZJB0 HDD, when installed as internal drive in S3, will cause TiVo to hang at Welcome screen upon soft restart/reboot. For now, I've decided to leave the drive installed to see if I can live with this anomaly. Since the S3 is on a UPS, I would expect only time the hang should occur is when TiVo pushes a firmware update (fingers crossed).


I did that very thing with the WD15EADS in one of my S3 TiVos for a while. I had already purchased the WD15EADS before I realized it may suffer from the same issue as the 1T drive. I installed it, and surely enough, it does. I knew I would be purchasing some additional 1.5T drives to upgrade a RAID array sooner or later, so I just left the WD in the S3 for a few weeks. Outside of my testing it, I never had a problem, because the unit did not require any reboots. A few weeks later, I did indeed purchase some additional 1.5T drives, ordering Seagate drive this time, rather than WD. I swapped the WD for one of the Seagates, and put the WD drive into the array along with the Seagates. 'No big deal, really.


----------



## lrhorer

mooneydriver said:


> I have a Tivo S3 with an upgraded internal drive and an external drive. When I upgraded these drives a couple of years ago, the MFSSuperSize option was not turned on. Is it possible to turn on this option on BOTH of these drives now, or would I be playing with fire?


I'm not completely certain, but I think the supersize option only affects the primary drive. I suggest you ask Spike in his forum. To answer your question, however, I don't think there is any significant risk in supersizing the drive system now.


----------



## orangeboy

lrhorer said:


> Any attempt to do something one has never done before can be daunting prior to the attempt. There is little more frightening than the unknown. When one has made a moderate investment in an item and seeks to make modifications which it is known can result in causing the unit to cease to function, there is definitely a natural, "Oh, my!" response. With that in mind, I applaud anyone who decides to take the plunge, and have no criticism of anyone of limited technical expertise who decides the process is just too risky for them. That said, the whole process is really quite simple in execution. There are indeed several variables one must consider when upgrading and a handful of different actual paths one may take depending on one's preferred outcome, but once one has properly assessed one's situation and chosen an appropriate upgrade method, the actual process is really quite straightforward. In addition, while any process, and in particular any upgrade process can go awry, the number of ways a TiVo upgrade can fail are comparatively limited, and recovery from a failure in all but the most unusual cases is similarly straightforward. If one reads the first post in this FAQ carefully, posts any questions here to clarify anything which is unclear to the reader, understands fully all the prerequisites, and sticks to the process closely, then one is all but assured of success.
> 
> I strongly suggest anyone of any level of technical expertise choose an upgrade path which includes a reliable and handy backup strategy. Indeed, my best suggestion is to remove and copy the primary drive to whatever primary medium is being used for the upgrade, then set aside the original drive for backup and safekeeping. Then if one manages to trash the other drive(s), or eventually suffers a drive failure, one can be back online in a matter of a few minutes.


I have yet to do anything with my Series 3 regarding it's harddrive. It is well past the warranty, so cracking the case open shouldn't be a problem. I do have a 500GB MyDVR Expander installed, and as far as I know, the only thing that would remain on the internal drive is the HDNet test pattern I recorded lo so many moons ago. Since I'd lose all of my recordings (besides the test pattern), I've been hesitant to make an "insurance" drive. Ultimately it's up to me to decide what to do, but what would the recommendations be in my case? InstantCake? WinMFS?


----------



## alyssa

innocentfreak said:


> With WinMFS you should be able to copy over your recordings and season passes unless there is some limitation on the series 3/Tivo HD I am unaware of.
> 
> EDIT: oh and where did you get a $25 coupon or did you mean gift certificate?


Yes, Gift Cirt. because I use their CC.

I've also got an external hooked up to my stock S3. I don't know if spike has enabled transferring from both sources yet. Last I knew a few months ago it was not possible. I'm on TimeWarner cable so MRVing isn't possible either.


----------



## husky55

alyssa said:


> Amazon has the Western Digital WD10EVVS for $92.29 w/free ship
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001VKY8FG/ref=ox_ya_oh_product


This is the recommended drive but I wonder what the difference between this drive and other WD Green 1 TB drives besides what I note below.

Some works with S3 and some don't, but all will work with HD and with the lower 5400 rpm. Some have 8 MB cache some have 16 MB cache.


----------



## alyssa

What problems are there with this drive & an S3?


----------



## richsadams

alyssa said:


> What problems are there with this drive & an S3?


If you're referring to the WD10EVVS there are none. It's one of the recommended drives listed on the first post of this sticky.



husky55 said:


> This is the recommended drive but I wonder what the difference between this drive and other WD Green 1 TB drives besides what I note below.
> 
> Some works with S3 and some don't, but all will work with HD and with the lower 5400 rpm. Some have 8 MB cache some have 16 MB cache.


The WD10EVVS works with all models. The firmware and/or chipset in some others is different and cause a soft reboot issue in Series 3's (and are not listed as recommended drives on the first thread of this sticky). TiVo OEM drives are 5400 RPM w/2MB of cache. Anything equal to or above that is icing


----------



## richsadams

orangeboy said:


> I have yet to do anything with my Series 3 regarding it's harddrive. It is well past the warranty, so cracking the case open shouldn't be a problem. I do have a 500GB MyDVR Expander installed, and as far as I know, the only thing that would remain on the internal drive is the HDNet test pattern I recorded lo so many moons ago. Since I'd lose all of my recordings (besides the test pattern), I've been hesitant to make an "insurance" drive. Ultimately it's up to me to decide what to do, but what would the recommendations be in my case? InstantCake? WinMFS?


If you're comfortable with connecting a hard drive to a PC, use your existing drive to image a new internal hard drive (1TB to 1.5TB) with winMFS. Put the original on the shelf for insurance and use your eSATA drive for something else. Follow the drive recommendations (Section IV, #28) and directions (Section V, 18a) in the first post of this thread .


----------



## alyssa

richsadams said:


> If you're referring to the WD10EVVS there are none. It's one of the recommended drives listed on the first post of this sticky.


Yes, I was referring to the WD10EVVS. I checked both Spikes page & page one which was why I was surprised to hear there might be a problem. 
Thanks Rich! <again>


----------



## richsadams

alyssa said:


> Yes, I was referring to the WD10EVVS. I checked both Spikes page & page one which was why I was surprised to hear there might be a problem.
> Thanks Rich! <again>


Unfortunately WD makes two drives, the WD10EACS and the WD10EADS, both of which work as internal upgrades for TiVo HD's but exhibit the soft reboot problem if used as internal upgrades for the Series3 (hence their exclusion from the recommended drive list on the first post). It can be confusing sometimes!  The WD10EVVS is a DVR dedicated drive (quiet, etc.) and works with both models (inside and out). :up:


----------



## innocentfreak

alyssa said:


> Yeah, I've been reluctant to jump because I'll have to lose all my recordings to upgrade. However at that price and since I had a $25 coupon burning a hole, I just *had* too.
> Or so goes the expiation to the hubby <grin>
> 
> Interestingly, I used supersaver shipping & the order entered the preparing faze almost as soon as I placed it. That says to me their warehouse is slow. I've had it take 5 days to enter the preparing faze before.


Wow must be nice . Mine is expected to ship the 4th with supersaver shipping. Then again I never thought Amazon liked me. I ended up ordering two so that must be why lol.


----------



## jlib

orangeboy said:


> I have yet to do anything with my Series 3 regarding it's harddrive. It is well past the warranty, so cracking the case open shouldn't be a problem. I do have a 500GB MyDVR Expander installed, and as far as I know, the only thing that would remain on the internal drive is the HDNet test pattern I recorded lo so many moons ago. Since I'd lose all of my recordings (besides the test pattern), I've been hesitant to make an "insurance" drive. Ultimately it's up to me to decide what to do, but what would the recommendations be in my case? InstantCake? WinMFS?


The recommendation would be to use TiVo Desktop to transfer any unprotected shows to a PC. Then have a weekend viewing marathon to exhaust the remaining saved shows. Then do an internal hard drive upgrade using WinMFS and then put your original internal drive on a shelf for safekeeping. Your external drive can be used as a computer drive or reapplied to the TiVo if you need even more space than the 1TB internal.


----------



## mchief

Got the Newegg WD10EADS for 74.99 and free shipping, installed and working like a charm. I was wondering about the packing after reading some horror stories. The drive was an OEM in silver static envelope, well wrapped in bubble wrap and packed in peanuts. So no bouncing around. Saw no problem with the packing.


----------



## orangeboy

richsadams said:


> If you're comfortable with connecting a hard drive to a PC, use your existing drive to image a new internal hard drive (1TB to 1.5TB) with winMFS. Put the original on the shelf for insurance and use your eSATA drive for something else. Follow the drive recommendations (Section IV, #28) and directions (Section V, 18a) in the first post of this thread .





jlib said:


> The recommendation would be to use TiVo Desktop to transfer any unprotected shows to a PC. Then have a weekend viewing marathon to exhaust the remaining saved shows. Then do an internal hard drive upgrade using WinMFS and then put your original internal drive on a shelf for safekeeping. Your external drive can be used as a computer drive or reapplied to the TiVo if you need even more space than the 1TB internal.


Sounds like a winner - Thanks! :up:


----------



## MPSAN

mchief said:


> Got the Newegg WD10EADS for 74.99 and free shipping, installed and working like a charm. I was wondering about the packing after reading some horror stories. The drive was an OEM in silver static envelope, well wrapped in bubble wrap and packed in peanuts. So no bouncing around. Saw no problem with the packing.


I have gotten many drives from Newegg and have had NO ISSUES. That said, however, I have had some that were in the antistatic envelope and with bubble wrap, but then just thrown in a rather large box with very little more packing material. As I said, they have all worked, it is just that it seemed strange that they SOMETIMES shipped that way. Yours seems fine. My TiVo drive (WD10EADS) came from ZZF and I must say that they had a foam container made for these dirves! Very nice, and in my case, the price was great as well!


----------



## sampsas

Ok so tihs weekend I said what the heck i will upgrade my 2 series 2 Tivos. So i put in the drives into my puter.. fired up MFSLive CD went on my laptop to thje site did the MFSLive ICG and now i have 1 Tivo with 282 hours and the other with 1138 hours of recording time!!! Took more time for the units to bootup then the upgrade did!!! WOW was that ever easy!!!!!! I highly recommed the MFSLive CD option and the MFSLive ICG tool as it is really easy!!!!


----------



## richsadams

sampsas said:


> ...and now i have 1 Tivo with 282 hours and the other with 1138 hours of recording time!!!


Nice! :up:


----------



## alyssa

from IV sec 18


> Can I upgrade the built-in hard drive with a larger model without affecting my eSATA drive?
> 
> You can do that with the MFSLive bootCD if you are still using the original, factory-installed TiVo drive. You cannot do this if the internal drive was previously upgraded. Note this capability is not yet supported in WinMFS, but it could be added in a future version. Credit to spike2k5 for this answer.


Just looking for a read on the possibility of doing the following;
I have an unmodified S3 with an eSATA, Antec & WD 750GB.

I want to upgrade the internal hd to a 1T. From the above quote, it seems as tho I can swap out my factory internal drive from my S3 for a 1T and maintain the marriage between the internal & external hard drives. Do I read this right?

I assume if I maintain the marriage then I will maintain the recordings?

Are the instruction for the bootCD pretty well laid out? Is the process using the bootcd the same as the process using winmfs? For example can I follow section IV #11 instructions without the divorcing? Basically?
I've had some problems in the past using a much older version of winMSF, 5+ years ago hence my concern. I found winMSF a breeze a year or so ago.

The bootCD says it has support for Tivo Hd, does it support S3's? I assume I can run a linux BootCd on a vista machine?

And on a side note;
I assume I can adjust the acoustics of the eSATA without effecting the marriage?


----------



## jlib

Yes, you can adjust the AAM anytime without affecting contents.

Yes, S3 is supported by MFSlive boot CD.

MFSlive uses command line entries that have to be typed in something like this:

backup -qTao - /dev/sda /dev/sdb | restore -s 128 -r 4 -exzi - /dev/sdc /dev/sdd​So, it is not for the faint of heart and you need to know how to identify which drive is which and where to find the pipe character on the keyboard so it helps to have some Linux/Unix background or a friend who does who can look over your shoulder. The command line mfstools assume you know what you are doing and will happily overwrite your source drive if you get it backwards. That snippet is from the online manual but as you can see there are 4 hard drives attached simultaneously as if upgrading your external drive at the same time. It sounds like you want to just upgrade the internal and preserve the external.

Since spike2k5 says it is doable you should go to his site and see if there are any relevant posts and if not just post what you want to do with which model TiVo and particularly ask for the precise command line. It will probably look like the above but without the 4th drive. Things to find out: if there is only one destination drive does it copy the eSATA drive to the destination along with the original internal or does it just preserve the marriage. Actually either way will work for you. If the external drive ends up on the single destination you could always marry the eSATA drive later as if it were a newly attached drive. So, go visit spike. Some of us here have done the old school method but with WinMFS being so easy to use most of us are quite rusty. Better to go direct to the source. I do seem to remember someone mentioning doing what you want so there should be a trail already blazed.


----------



## alyssa

> Series 3:
> This section of the guide assumes that your internal TiVo drive is on 1st SATA port, eSATA drive is on 2nd SATA port, new drive is on 3rd SATA port, and cdrom is on primary slave(hdb). If you don't have 3rd SATA port, you can use USB port using USB to SATA adapter. If your eSATA drive has an USB port, you can use that as well. Refer to Computer Setup guide for more details on how to setup drives. This guide does not cover every scenario so try ICG if you are confused.
> 
> Disk to Disk Copy
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Slow way but preserves recordings: (avg 2GB/min)
> 
> Option 3.20 To copy everything from original capacity (250GB) internal drive and eSATA drive to bigger single drive and expand capacity. If you get "Backup target not large enough" error, chances are you will need to use this command. This option works only if your internal drive is never been expanded with restore -x option.
> 
> This option is built into WinMFS so give it a try.


This quote is from Spikes faq, here;
http://www.mfslive.org/softwareguidep3.htm

I'm wondering if Spike has enabled WinMFS for consolidating an unmoded internal & an eSATA. That would be soooo cool!

I don't need the eSATA right now could add after all the orginal infor is on the upgraded internal.

Assuming this won't work out, I'll have to fine that comand line. If I decide to do that I've got to set a side a bunch of time for the learning curve!! Thank you Jlib. I'm at work so I've got to dive deeper when I get home.


----------



## TiVoToo

I have installed a WD7500AACS-00ZJB0 HDD into a Vantec NexStar3 enclosure. Tested that I could access hard drive using USB port to connect to PC. Moved enclosure over to my unmodified Series 3 TiVo. Turned off TiVo, connected eSata cable, powered on external drive, then powered on TiVo. Once TiVo, completed reboot, I went to External Storage page where I received notification that "External Storage Not Detected", etc. Turned everything off, checked connections, repeated process with same result. Turned everything off, turn eSata cable around, repeated process with same result. Swapped eSata cable. Same result. I am unable to get the S3 TiVo to detect the attached eSata external drive.
Any suggestions?


----------



## alyssa

I think you need to do the Kickstart procedure. I'm at work so I can't do the search but it's simple, a matter of button pushes while the light is green.... or something like that. there should be a *much better* howto in this thread somewhere.


----------



## TiVoToo

alyssa said:


> I think you need to do the Kickstart procedure. I'm at work so I can't do the search but it's simple, a matter of button pushes while the light is green.... or something like that. there should be a *much better* howto in this thread somewhere.


In Section IV(9) of the FAQ on first page of this thread it states that the "kickstart62" method is no longer available. It was replaced with the External Storage menu in 9.2, and later versions of firmware. This is section for install of unsupported external drives so I assumed no Kickstart needed. I'll give Kickstart62 a try anyway, see what happens.

[Update] Same result. I wish I had another device in the house with eSata support. I'm beginning to wonder if eSata port on the NexStar or the S3 is kaput. Only way to break the ambiguity is to try with another device.


----------



## alyssa

There use to be some problems with the eSata cables. I wouldn't go out and get another cable on my say so, especially since my last advice was sooo spot on.  Sorry about that. 

I've got a post on the MFSlive (spike's) site that's getting no response, due, I suspect to the holiday wkend. I can't help but think, the people who are really in the know about such stuff are on vaka.


----------



## innocentfreak

Well my two drives arrived from Amazon today. I had great packaging since it was the box that WD used to ship the drives to Amazon so now I have a nice 10 slot WD box for storing old drives.

I upgraded my living room Tivo HD but now only show 142 hours for HD not the 157 so I wonder if it didn't supersize or if something else happened. Everything went quickly since the drive was empty and worked fine. I am just shorter on space than I expected.

I may upgrade the other Tivo tomorrow just to make sure the Living Room runs fine for 24 hours.


----------



## TiVoToo

TiVoToo said:


> In Section IV(9) of the FAQ on first page of this thread it states that the "kickstart62" method is no longer available. It was replaced with the External Storage menu in 9.2, and later versions of firmware. This is section for install of unsupported external drives so I assumed no Kickstart needed. I'll give Kickstart62 a try anyway, see what happens.
> 
> [Update] Same result. I wish I had another device in the house with eSata support. I'm beginning to wonder if eSata port on the NexStar or the S3 is kaput. Only way to break the ambiguity is to try with another device.


Although I don't have another device with an eSata connection, my primary PC has pair of internal SATA that are connected as a RAID. The Vantec came with a eSATA extender, so I bit the bullet, took my PC apart, detached the RAID, and attached the external drive to the PC using the extender. Booted with BART PE. Saw the drive and could peruse the files on it. This indicates that the external drive and cable work when attached to a PC. Still trying to figure out why won't work when connected to the S3.

[Update] Who woulda thunk. A Box Cutter fixed the problem.


----------



## innocentfreak

I noticed the blue light was off for the Tivo I had just upgraded earlier so I turned it on to check to see if it finished transferring a bunch of shows I had queued up. Well apparently it reset so now it is supposedly booting up. I guess I may need to pull the drive tomorrow and run diagnostics on it to make sure it is good before I do anything else with. None of my other Tivos rebooted though they are on battery backup and this one isn't since there isn't room for one.

EDIT: Well it came up and then when I went to browse the stuff on my computer to transfer shows, it sat there forever at please wait so I left it alone. I came back about 10 minutes later and it is booting up again. Ugh this is not what I wanted to deal with this weekend.


----------



## Dssturbo1

innocentfreak said:


> ....I upgraded my living room Tivo HD but now only show 142 hours for HD not the 157 so I wonder if it didn't supersize or if something else happened. Everything went quickly since the drive was empty and worked fine. I am just shorter on space than I expected....


you should be able to go back and supersize it.


----------



## alyssa

innocentfreak said:


> I noticed the blue light was off for the Tivo I had just upgraded...... snip..... Ugh this is not what I wanted to deal with this weekend.


At least you've got time to deal with this before the fall season starts.  
I'm still wondering at the Amazon shipping thing, your drives must have been shipped from the east coast, & mine from NV. 
Good luck!


----------



## dlfl

Anybody know if the Western Digital HDD diagnostics (Windows Version) will run at reasonable speed (or at all) if the HDD is connected via a USB-to-Sata interface?

I'm thinking it might be good to run them on my new WD10EADS before using it for an internal upgrade.


----------



## innocentfreak

alyssa said:


> At least you've got time to deal with this before the fall season starts.
> I'm still wondering at the Amazon shipping thing, your drives must have been shipped from the east coast, & mine from NV.
> Good luck!


Yeah I tend to get Amazon products quick even with Super Saver. Mine shipped from Kentucky. It wasn't set to ship until the 10th but shipped Sept 1st and I had them the 4th.

This morning the Tivo is transferring and recording fine so I don't know what to do. I don't know if I should pull it and run diagnostics on it or just let it be. Since it is in the living room I don't watch it as much so I can't keep an eye on it as easy as my bedroom one. I wish there was an easy way to remote monitor it or Tivo had data on the Tivo diagnostics screen as to when the last reboot occurred. This way I would know if it is still rebooting sometimes.


----------



## woodway

I just successfully dropped a 1TB drive into my TivoHD using WinMFS. Could not have been any easier. Mucho thanks to the author and all the support here.

BTW - WinMFS runs fine under Win7 RTM.


----------



## ThAbtO

Found video on how to expand the THD.

http://cnettv.cnet.com/add-external-hard-drive-your-tivo-hd/9742-1_53-50075282.html


----------



## richsadams

ThAbtO said:


> Found video on how to expand the THD.
> 
> http://cnettv.cnet.com/add-external-hard-drive-your-tivo-hd/9742-1_53-50075282.html


That video has been posted a few times in the past and although it's accurate it no longer makes sense. They're advocating adding a 750GB eSATA drive by marrying it to the miniscule TiVo HD OEM drive.

If you're going to open TiVo at all (voiding the 1 year warranty) the smarter move now is to simply replace the internal HDD with a 1TB or 1.5TB drive. Either will result in more space and remove a second point of failure. If that's not enough space, by all means add an eSATA drive (with the knowledge that if either drive fails all recordings will be lost). But keeping the OEM drive anywhere but on the shelf as a backup makes little sense these days.


----------



## alyssa

TiVoToo said:


> [Update] Who woulda thunk. A Box Cutter fixed the problem.


Great! Yeah, that was what I was half remembering, the eSata cables that were too short to properly connect. Good searching.

It is surprising that the 'bad' short cables are still around. I thought they were being fazed out.


----------



## Carlthulhu

Hi all,

I have a series 3 that has never been upgraded. I'd like to upgrade the internal drive to the maximum size that will work.

According to the first page of this thread, it can be expanded to:

TiVo Series3 TCD648250B 1.35 TB* (1350 GB)

which makes sense to me, since it's 1.1TB + the size of the original 250GB drive.

But other posts say that when you expand a 1.5 TB drive, you can only go to 1.26TB. Which is correct?

Also, is there a recommended model of 1.5TB drive? 

Western Digital has a 1.5TB WD AV-GP drive listed on their website, but I can't find anyone selling it.

Thanks in advance,

Carl


----------



## innocentfreak

BB has the 1tb WD My Book External for Mac for $65.99. The drive inside is the WD1TB EAVS with 8mb cache. I only saw one other person mention it previously so I don't know how well it compares to some of the other drives, but for the price it might not be bad. They have free shipping or you can pick up in store if you store has any left.


----------



## richsadams

innocentfreak said:


> BB has the 1tb WD My Book External for Mac for $65.99. The drive inside is the WD1TB EAVS with 8mb cache. I only saw one other person mention it previously so I don't know how well it compares to some of the other drives, but for the price it might not be bad. They have free shipping or you can pick up in store if you store has any left.


Nice find, but the original WD My Book Edition eSATA drive will NOT work as an expansion drive w/TiVo Series3's or TiVo HD's, at least while the drive itself is in the WD enclosure. AFAIK no one has tested the Mac version but there's no reason to think it would be any different.

IIRC someone used a WD10EAVS (assume that's the drive you're referring to) as an internal upgrade with a TiVo Series3 and it exhibited the soft reboot issue but someone else successfully upgraded a TiVo HD with one. It' not on the recommended drive list however.

It's best to stick with the recommended drives even if you have to pay a few dollars more IMHO. Keep in mind that if the drive is removed from the enclosure it voids the warranty...and would probably be hard to return.

However if someone's up for an experiment please post your results!


----------



## dlfl

Bump..... Anybody know this? Thanks.



dlfl said:


> Anybody know if the Western Digital HDD diagnostics (Windows Version) will run at reasonable speed (or at all) if the HDD is connected via a USB-to-Sata interface?
> 
> I'm thinking it might be good to run them on my new WD10EADS before using it for an internal upgrade.


----------



## innocentfreak

richsadams said:


> Nice find, but the original WD My Book Edition eSATA drive will NOT work as an expansion drive w/TiVo Series3's or TiVo HD's, at least while the drive itself is in the WD enclosure. AFAIK no one has tested the Mac version but there's no reason to think it would be any different.
> 
> IIRC someone used a WD10EAVS (assume that's the drive you're referring to) as an internal upgrade with a TiVo Series3 and it exhibited the soft reboot issue but someone else successfully upgraded a TiVo HD with one. It' not on the recommended drive list however.
> 
> It's best to stick with the recommended drives even if you have to pay a few dollars more IMHO. Keep in mind that if the drive is removed from the enclosure it voids the warranty...and would probably be hard to return.
> 
> However if someone's up for an experiment please post your results!


I'm sorry I should have been more clear since I forgot that Tivo can even use external drives. My thought was to pull it from the enclosure and use it as an internal upgrade. From what I have read it is supposed to be the same as EADS but only 8mb cache instead of 16mb. It only showed up once on this site and someone was talking about applying AAM. I didn't see any other mention. I just figured I would throw it out there if someone was interested.


----------



## richsadams

innocentfreak said:


> I'm sorry I should have been more clear since I forgot that Tivo can even use external drives. My thought was to pull it from the enclosure and use it as an internal upgrade. From what I have read it is supposed to be the same as EADS but only 8mb cache instead of 16mb. It only showed up once on this site and someone was talking about applying AAM. I didn't see any other mention. I just figured I would throw it out there if someone was interested.


Not a bad deal, but again, pulling it from the enclosure voids the (one-year) warranty. WD bare drives have a three-year warranty so another 20 bucks for a recommended drive would be worth it IMO.

Also, like the WD10EADS, it probably will not work as an internal upgrade with a Series3.

But, it's out there, so let's see if anyone is game. 

BTW, 8MB, 16MB or 32MB of cache won't make any difference to TiVo one way or the other...the OEM drives have a tiny 2MB of cache.


----------



## kimifelipe

Has anyone tried the seagate barracuda ST31000520AS?

Any help is appreciated.


----------



## Hcour

Upgraded my int hd today with a 1TB drive. It was in an external enclosure that I'd been using with my TWC SA8300 DVR, before I got my Tivo. Following the instructions in this thread it was a breeze and didn't cost me an extra cent. Much thanks to the OP for his time and trouble.


----------



## richsadams

kimifelipe said:


> Has anyone tried the seagate barracuda ST31000520AS?
> 
> Any help is appreciated.


AFAIK no one has used this new drive. FWIW AAM settings cannot be changed on Seagate drives (didn't look to see what they are, but since it's a low RPM drive they are probably tolerable). Might be fine (probably is) but it might not work. Again, the proven/recommended WD10EVVS is available for less than $10 more.


----------



## jlib

dlfl said:


> Anybody know if the Western Digital HDD diagnostics (Windows Version) will run at reasonable speed (or at all) if the HDD is connected via a USB-to-Sata interface?...


If your USB ports are version 2.0 it will be reasonable. The Windows version of the diagnostics will see whatever drives Windows itself sees.


----------



## dlfl

jlib said:


> If your USB ports are version 2.0 it will be reasonable. The Windows version of the diagnostics will see whatever drives Windows itself sees.


Thanks,

I'm running it right now. The quick test took 1:11 mins. The full test is running and looks like it will take 9-10 hrs -- which is fine.

I had already set the AAM to "quiet" (128), which is probably making the test take longer. I have to get within 6 inches of the drive to hear anything, except for short periods during the quick test where it made a hum that could be heard 2 feet away. (This is the WD10EADS.)


----------



## MPSAN

dlfl said:


> Thanks,
> 
> I'm running it right now. The quick test took 1:11 mins. The full test is running and looks like it will take 9-10 hrs -- which is fine.
> 
> I had already set the AAM to "quiet" (128), which is probably making the test take longer. I have to get within 6 inches of the drive to hear anything, except for short periods during the quick test where it made a hum that could be heard 2 feet away. (This is the WD10EADS.)


A 1TB drive will take a while. Anyway, I am not sure that AAM will matter in sequential seeks that the WD test will do.


----------



## john_o

I also got the Vantec NexStar3 enclosure for one of the several thousand extra laptop drives I have lying around and got the "External Storage Not Detected" notification. Trimmed one end of the Sata cable. Not detected. Flipped the cable around. Not detected.

I then realized my error - being Mr Clever Person, I decided that it was quite reasonable to power the enclosure by attaching the USB cable to the S3's USB port. Sadly, this seemingly elegant solution won't work because the USB ports don't get power until after the Tivo looks for external media. Arrrrrrrrrrgh. Proving once again how annoying an unpowered connection like eSATA is.

Extra iPhone USB wall brick works well, guess I need to find another plug on the UPS.



TiVoToo said:


> I have installed a WD7500AACS-00ZJB0 HDD into a Vantec NexStar3 enclosure. Tested that I could access hard drive using USB port to connect to PC. Moved enclosure over to my unmodified Series 3 TiVo. Turned off TiVo, connected eSata cable, powered on external drive, then powered on TiVo. Once TiVo, completed reboot, I went to External Storage page where I received notification that "External Storage Not Detected", etc. Turned everything off, checked connections, repeated process with same result. Turned everything off, turn eSata cable around, repeated process with same result. Swapped eSata cable. Same result. I am unable to get the S3 TiVo to detect the attached eSata external drive.
> Any suggestions?


----------



## kimifelipe

richsadams said:


> AFAIK no one has used this new drive. FWIW AAM settings cannot be changed on Seagate drives (didn't look to see what they are, but since it's a low RPM drive they are probably tolerable). Might be fine (probably is) but it might not work. Again, the proven/recommended WD10EVVS is available for less than $10 more.


Thanks Rich, I am going to pick up a WD10EADS; I couldn't find the EVVS for less than $100 plus shipping.


----------



## bkdtv

kimifelipe said:


> Thanks Rich, I am going to pick up a WD10EADS; I couldn't find the EVVS for less than $100 plus shipping.


Did you not see the links in the first post?

The WD10EADS should work fine if you've got the TivoHD (and not the original TiVo Series3).


----------



## lew

kimifelipe said:


> Thanks Rich, I am going to pick up a WD10EADS; I couldn't find the EVVS for less than $100 plus shipping.


Check the vendors listed in one of the first posts in this thread. The "going" price is around $100 shipped. I just paid $100.74 (shipped) from Provantage. Zipzoomfly is a couple of dollars less (but not currently in stock). I decided it's worth a couple of dollars more to use the same drive tivo is using.


----------



## kimifelipe

Guys, $100.74 is _not_ less than $100. 

One can buy an EADS for $84.99.


----------



## lew

kimifelipe said:


> Guys, $100.74 is _not_ less than $100.
> 
> One can buy an EADS for $84.99.


Zipzoomfly is a couple of dollars less then Provantage. Their cost is less then $100 shipped. Provantage was $90.79 without shipping. You want to quibble over $.74? I didn't check, it's possible the shipping cost is less to other zip codes.

Your post states the cost of the EVVS drive exceeds $100. The cost is almost exactly a $100, a dollar or two less from some vendors and a dollar more from others.

You can buy a Hitachi Deskstar (1T) drive from zipzoomfly for 75.99 shipped. I'd probably save the extra $9 and go with the Hitachi drive over the EADS if I didn't go with the EVVS drive.

Obviously I don't have an issue with your decision to save $16, I just wanted people reading this thread to know the current pricing for the EVVS model.

Some of us are willing to pay a (small) price premium to use the same DVR drive used by tivo. I'm not sure if the stated advantages of a DVR drive are significant but I don't see a down side.


----------



## kimifelipe

Wow, not very helpful. Why is it that people at this site seem to get so upset if someone doesnt take their advice exactly or agree exactly with every word they say? I hope I don't need any help with my tivo again so I don't need to come back.

Thanks again, Rich, I appreciate your input.


----------



## jlib

lew said:


> Some of us are willing to pay a (small) price premium to use the same DVR drive used by tivo. I'm not sure if the stated advantages of a DVR drive are significant but I don't see a down side.


Note that TiVo only started using a DVR drive in the very latest model and that was only because they were able to get a reduced cache version that way (when you buy thousands the dollars add up). TiVo uses none of the DVR capabilities of that drive. TiVo has never stated any advantages to using a DVR drive. The only downside would be if you paid more for one thinking it would somehow perform better.


----------



## bicker

kimifelipe said:


> Wow, not very helpful. Why is it that people at this site seem to get so upset if someone doesnt take their advice exactly or agree exactly with every word they say? I hope I don't need any help with my tivo again so I don't need to come back.


I haven't been involved in your back-and-forth, so I don't have a dog in that fight, but what I do know is that this cuts both ways: Why come to a site to ask for advice if you aren't going to accept it graciously? Don't object to the advice you're given: Just receive it, and make your own decisions. There is no need to rebut those who, by your choice in presenting your inquiry to them, you have designated them as experts, who's expertise you wish to avail yourself of.

Unless your intention is to debate the issue with them, in which case you are sacrificing your status as someone asking for help, and instead place yourself squarely in the position of being on one side of an argument. That's your prerogative, but you cannot have it both ways, be a provocateur and expect to be treated as a new guest.


----------



## lew

kimifelipe said:


> Wow, not very helpful. Why is it that people at this site seem to get so upset if someone doesnt take their advice exactly or agree exactly with every word they say? I hope I don't need any help with my tivo again so I don't need to come back.
> 
> Thanks again, Rich, I appreciate your input.


I don't care what drive you use. I don't care if you decide to save $15 by using a different WD drive or $25 by using a Hitachi drive. A few people, including the forum sponsor, thinks there is an advantage to using a DVR drive in a tivo. There is evidence that suggests the advantages are minimal (or even non-existent). The fact that tivo is currently using a DVR drive suggests some of those features could be used in the future.

I thought your post was misleading as to the current pricing of the EVVS drive. Is it really accurate to say the drive costs more then $100 when current pricing is between $96.90-$100.74?

You want some helpful information?

Zipzoomfly is selling the WDEADS drive for $84.99. The price drops to $69.99 after a $15 rebate.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10009901


----------



## lew

kimifelipe said:


> Thanks Rich, I am going to pick up a WD10EADS; *I couldn't find the EVVS for less than $100 plus shipping*.





bicker said:


> I haven't been involved in your back-and-forth, so I don't have a dog in that fight, but what I do know is that this cuts both ways: Why come to a site to ask for advice if you aren't going to accept it graciously? ...........
> 
> Unless your intention is to debate the issue with them, in which case you are sacrificing your status as someone asking for help, and instead place yourself squarely in the position of being on one side of an argument. That's your prerogative, but you cannot have it both ways, be a provocateur and expect to be treated as a new guest.


I bought the drive for $100.74 shipped. Zipzoomfly is selling the drive for 96.90 shipped. I wasn't debating the merits of using the DVR specific EVVS drive. I just wanted to update the (probably old) pricing information he posted.


----------



## richsadams

lew said:


> Zipzoomfly is selling the WDEADS drive for $84.99. The price drops to $69.99 after a $15 rebate.
> 
> http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10009901


Now _that_ is a good deal indeed! :up: (Mind you, only good for internal upgrades in TiVo HD's, not Series3's.)

FWIW I've purchased drives from ZZF and they were shipped fast and packed well.


----------



## richsadams

kimifelipe said:


> Thanks Rich, I am going to pick up a WD10EADS; I couldn't find the EVVS for less than $100 plus shipping.


Prices for hard drives swing (sometimes wildly) from one day to the next. Check the links on the first post and if the price isn't right at the moment, wait a few minutes. 

(Anyone here remember paying $259 for the first WD 1TB's on sale at BB a couple of years ago? What a screaming deal we thought _that_ was!  Sigh.)


----------



## dlfl

Just finished upgrading my HD with a WD10EADS. It really did take just about a half hour from opening to re-closing my TiVo case.

Many thanks guys, especially Rich and bkdtv, and most especially Spike! :up:


----------



## richsadams

dlfl said:


> Just finished upgrading my HD with a WD10EADS. It really did take just about a half hour from opening to re-closing my TiVo case.
> 
> Many thanks guys, especially Rich and bkdtv, and most especially Spike! :up:


Now, like MSPAN once said, you'll need to upgrade your personal TV watching time allowance program to be able to actually view all of those shows that'll be waiting for you when you get home! 

Enjoy!


----------



## dlfl

richsadams said:


> Now, like MSPAN once said, you'll need to upgrade your personal TV watching time allowance program to be able to actually view all of those shows that'll be waiting for you when you get home!
> 
> Enjoy!


It's a challenge... but I think I can handle it!


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Prices for hard drives swing (sometimes wildly) from one day to the next. Check the links on the first post and if the price isn't right at the moment, wait a few minutes.
> 
> (Anyone here remember paying $259 for the first WD 1TB's on sale at BB a couple of years ago? What a screaming deal we thought _that_ was!  Sigh.)


OH yeah! What about my $495 deal for my first 20MB Seagate for my PC! IBM wanted a lot more for their 5MB drive.

WOW, I paid only $24.75 per MB. So 1TB is only 24.75 Million dollars!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> WOW, I paid only $24.75 per MB. So 1TB is only 24.75 Million dollars!


Yikes!  I remember paying about $1/MB for a "huge" 320MB hard drive once. But okay...you win. I'll stop complaining.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Yikes!  I remember paying about $1MB for a "huge" 320MB hard drive once. But okay...you win. I'll stop complaining.


Yes, let's not even get into a 4K memory chip in my Apple ][+ for only a Dollar!

P.S. I still have the PC with the 20MB drive and the Apple upgraded to an unimaginable 64K. We made a board, and wire wrapped it to get the extra 16K!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Yes, let's not even get into a 4K memory chip in my Apple ][+ for only a Dollar!
> 
> P.S. I still have the PC with the 20MB drive and the Apple upgraded to an unimaginable 64K. We made a board, and wire wrapped it to get the extra 16K!


Okay...you've out geeked me. I surrender.


----------



## dlfl

Today's drives have larger *buffers* than my first HDD!


----------



## MPSAN

Yes...32MB buffer is more than my 20MB hard drive...then we can move on to Video memory.

Anyway, this is getting too far OT. 

OH, Rich, not trying to outGeek anyone!


----------



## dlfl

12 hrs after installing the WD10EADS my HD's internal temp is the same as it was with the original drive (45C).


----------



## Mack The Dog

Anyone use a LaCie USB 2.0/FireWire/eSATA External Hard Drive - 301313U to add an external drive to their TiVo? I haven't found anything to document that it is rated for 24/7 operation, so that makes me wonder if it will work for this application. Seems like a decent price, but I'd rather not be the guinea pig...


----------



## richsadams

Mack The Dog said:


> Anyone use a LaCie USB 2.0/FireWire/eSATA External Hard Drive - 301313U to add an external drive to their TiVo?


Hmmm....AFAIK no one has tried that particular model. LaCie has a very good reputation though. But at $.18/GB it's pretty expensive. For the money I think I'd opt for the proven Fantom Green 1TB package which is $79.99 AR.


----------



## dms92969

WD10EVDS @CDW for $95.00... Best price I've seen.. 
I got it for $83.50 (corporate discount) + tax+ Shipping =$101.61

Power-conserving WD AV-GP drives offer significant power savings and thermally optimized operation resulting in lower cost of ownership and *unsurpassed reliability for PVR/DVR*, IPTV boxes and media server manufacturers. Now with a broad range of capacity points from 160GB all the way up to 2TB.

Performance Specifications 
Rotational Speed IntelliPower * 
Buffer Size *32 MB *

Transfer Rates 
Buffer To Host (Serial ATA) 3 Gb/s (Max)

Physical Specifications 
Formatted Capacity 1,000,204 MB 
Capacity 1 TB 
Interface SATA 3 Gb/s 
User Sectors Per Drive 1,953,525,168

Physical Dimensions 
English 
Height 1.028 Inches 
Length 5.787 Inches 
Width 4.00 Inches 
Weight 1.32 Pounds

Metric 
Height 26.1 mm 
Length 147 mm 
Width 101.6 mm 
Weight 0.60 kg

Environmental Specifications 
Shock 
Operating Shock (Read) 65G, 2 ms 
Non-operating Shock 250G, 2 ms

Acoustics 
Idle Mode 24 dBA (average) 
Seek Mode 3 25 dBA (average)

Temperature (English) 
Operating 32° F to 158° F 
Non-operating -40° F to 158° F

Temperature (Metric) 
Operating -0° C to 70° C 
Non-operating -40° C to 70° C

Humidity 
Operating 5-95% RH non-condensing 
Non-operating 5-95% RH non-condensing

Vibration 
Operating 
Linear 20-300 Hz, 0.75 G (0 to peak) 
Random 0.004 g²/Hz (10 to 300 Hz)

Electrical Specifications 
Current Requirements 
12 VDC 
Read/Write 210 mA 
Idle 198 mA 
Standby 2.6 mA 
Sleep 2.6 mA

5 VDC 
Read/Write 468 mA 
Idle 361 mA 
Standby 69 mA 
Sleep 69 mA

Power Dissipation 
Read/Write 4.86 Watts 
Idle 4.18 Watts 
Standby 0.38 Watts 
Sleep 0.38 Watts


----------



## richsadams

dms92969 said:


> WD10EVDS @CDW for $95.00... Best price I've seen..
> I got it for $83.50 (corporate discount) + tax+ Shipping =$101.61


Nice find. :up: The WD10EVDS will work with Series3's and TiVo HD's (both inside and out).

Because TiVo employs random I/O the extra cache probably won't make any difference, although I've argued on more than one occasion that the OEM drive's miniscule 2MB of cache isn't enough to handle all of the high-end work TiVo does now.

Thanks for posting and enjoy all of that new recording space. BTW, can you post your corporate ID so the rest of us can get a discount as well?


----------



## lew

Provantage is selling the same drive, but with only a 8MB buffer, for $83.17 + shipping.

http://www.provantage.com/western-digital-wd10eavs~7WNDG2NH.htm


----------



## richsadams

lew said:


> Provantage is selling the same drive, but with only a 8MB buffer, for $83.17 + shipping.
> 
> http://www.provantage.com/western-digital-wd10eavs~7WNDG2NH.htm


A caveat as it's not the same drive. The WD10EAVS that Provantage is selling reportedly exhibits the soft reboot issue in TiVo Series3's and is subsequently not on the recommended drive list.

Besides the buffer difference (which really shouldn't make any difference) the WD10EVDS is an AV/DVR dedicated drive tuned for low acoustics. The WD10EAVS (that ProVantage is selling) would need the AAM lowered to 128 by using the Hitachi Feature Tool to match the seek db of the WD10EVDS. More information on that can be found in Section IV, FAQ #31 of the first post.

FWIW I'd just get the recommend WD10EVVS which will work w/TiVo Series3's and TiVo HD's for internal and external upgrades. It's about $8 more...proven to work and no need to adjust the acoustics. YMMV of course.


----------



## evanborkow

WD10EVVS for $89.01 at Wiredzone.com:

http://www.wiredzone.com/itemdesc.asp?IC=32016271&eq=&Tp=


----------



## richsadams

evanborkow said:


> WD10EVVS for $89.01 at Wiredzone.com:
> 
> http://www.wiredzone.com/itemdesc.asp?IC=32016271&eq=&Tp=


That's about $1.50 less than the WD10EVVS at Provantage, but Wiredzone is offering free shipping which is a plus.

I've purchased products from Provantage and always had good service. I hadn't heard of Wriedzone. How are they for service, support, etc.? Sometimes I'll spend a little more w/a known company than risk my money with an unknown.


----------



## alyssa

OK, so I haven't gotten an answer from spike regarding combining my original S3 Drive & my eSATA drive. I'm hoping to keep my recordings but won't be devastated if it doesn't work out. The two drives were married via kickstart.

I'm gonna try it using MFScopy, selecting both drives as my source drives.
http://www.mfslive.org/softwareguidep3.htm#series3
Anyone want to weigh in on weather or not I divorce my eSATA drive prior to attempting the combining?

I'm assuming I shouldn't divorce but if that's the case, then I wonder if I can back up the primary unmodified married hd to my computer.
eta, I'm assuming I *can* do the back up, it just wouldn't be useful due to the married status. Worse comes to worse, I've got another image, I'd just rather not lose the cable card pairing. I did find this thread;
http://mfslive.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=811

I'm curious to know what people who know more that I, think.


----------



## evanborkow

This is the first time I've ordered from them. Their service seems good so far. They had a 4 1/2 star rating on google products.


----------



## moxie1617

alyssa said:


> .................
> I'm curious to know what people who know more that I, think.


I don't claim to know more than anybody but that is what I plan to do.

There is tool at msflive that is used to create the command line when using the boot CD. The boot CD allows you to copy your current internal and external drives to one larger internal drive. I won't be doing this until next week or later but it appears feasible that I will have a single internal drive with all my current recordings on it.

I wouldn't divorce the drive and I would explore the msflive site some more.


----------



## richsadams

evanborkow said:


> This is the first time I've ordered from them. Their service seems good so far. They had a 4 1/2 star rating on google products.


Sounds good. Let us know how things go.


----------



## mmmesq

I just put a st315005n4a1as-rk in my Series 3 and it bumped my HD hours from 142 to 198 [UPDATED: 9/16/2009] (WinMFS SuperSize option in use). I also tested the soft reboot from the Settings > Restart option and no more hang at Powering Up screen.

Fry's just had a Friday sale for these for just $104.99 (should still be going on), when most online sellers have this part for around $150.

That's the report from this guinea pig.

[UPDATE 9/16/2009: In my first post I mixed up the Max HD capacity reported by TiVo with my TiVo HD unit, which went from 157 to 213 hours]


----------



## Carlthulhu

mmmesq said:


> I just put a st315005n4a1as-rk in my Series 3 and it bumped my HD hours from 142 to 213 (WinMFS SuperSize option in use). I also tested the soft reboot from the Settings > Restart option and no more hang at Powering Up screen.
> 
> Fry's just had a Friday sale for these for just $104.99 (should still be going on), when most online sellers have this part for around $150.
> 
> That's the report from this guinea pig.


Very cool, I'm planning a 1.5TB upgrade to my S3 as well. Any thoughts on which is the better drive to use?

Seagate st315005n4a1as-rk or Western Digital WD15EVDS?

I haven't seen the WD15EVDS for sale on any of the usual sites, tho.

Carl


----------



## richsadams

mmmesq said:


> I just put a st315005n4a1as-rk in my Series 3 and it bumped my HD hours from 142 to 213 (WinMFS SuperSize option in use). I also tested the soft reboot from the Settings > Restart option and no more hang at Powering Up screen.


Great news...thanks for putting it to the test! I'm considering moving up another half terabyte as well. (Wish the S3 could use all of the space, but every little bit helps...and I don't want to go back to the eSATA days.)

Although I have a coupe of the recommended WD drives in our TiVo's I've been a Seagate guy for years. The downside is that they can be noisy and you can't adjust the AAM. (HDD's should be seen and not be heard IMHO.  ) I found the specs on their web site but I can't find anything about the seek noise levels. Since it's a 5900RPM drive I'd think it would be fairly quiet. How would you rate the one you just put in against the original? TIA.


----------



## alyssa

moxie1617 said:


> I don't claim to know more than anybody but that is what I plan to do.
> There is tool at msflive that is used to create the command line when using the boot CD. The boot CD allows you to copy your current internal and external drives to one larger internal drive. I won't be doing this until next week or later but it appears feasible that I will have a single internal drive with all my current recordings on it.
> 
> I wouldn't divorce the drive and I would explore the msflive site some more.


Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I saw the MSFLive disk option. I was even able to generate a command line from the generator. I'm a bit unsure of using the boot CD. I guess I'm afraid it won't be as easy to follow as I found the MFSwin a year or 2 ago. Plus, I want to do the upgrade asap before the fall season starts.

The thing that gets me is, according to everything I've read, it should be possible to use winmfs. I've never touched my internal hd & married my external via Kickstart. Both facts seem to be critical according to what I've gleaned from Spike's site. And according to the boot CD duel drive to single drive page, it is possible to do it via winmfs. Question is, can I figure out how to do it.

I just found a possible road block. I've got a 1TB EVVS in house. Apparently, a 250 + a 750 is a little more than 1GB. I wonder if deleting a huge amount of recordings will also reduce the size transferred. I had assumed (I know, I know ) that the more I deleted prior to transfer the smaller the destination drive would need to be. Anyone?


----------



## freqseeker

Thanks to everyone here and the creators of winmfs I successfully upgraded my tivo hd. I used the WD10EADS 1TB and copied the original drive using the Cavalry Dual Hdd dock USB 2.0. I used HDDScan to adjust the AAM to 128 before starting. Took just over one hour as I had a couple of recordings I wanted to keep. I now have 157 HD hours, up from 22 HD hours.

My advice to anyone trying the upgrade is to read the directions several times and check them off as you go. My upgrade could not have gone smoother. It's been running for 24 hours now.

Thanks again to all the people posting their experiences and helpful advice.

Vince.


----------



## richsadams

freqseeker said:


> Thanks to everyone here and the creators of winmfs I successfully upgraded my tivo hd. I used the WD10EADS 1TB and copied the original drive using the Cavalry Dual Hdd dock USB 2.0. I used HDDScan to adjust the AAM to 128 before starting. Took just over one hour as I had a couple of recordings I wanted to keep. I now have 157 HD hours, up from 22 HD hours.
> 
> My advice to anyone trying the upgrade is to read the directions several times and check them off as you go. My upgrade could not have gone smoother. It's been running for 24 hours now.
> 
> Thanks again to all the people posting their experiences and helpful advice.
> 
> Vince.


Hey Vince. Welcome to the club! :up:


----------



## lrhorer

MPSAN said:


> OH yeah! What about my $495 deal for my first 20MB Seagate for my PC! IBM wanted a lot more for their 5MB drive.
> 
> WOW, I paid only $24.75 per MB. So 1TB is only 24.75 Million dollars!





richsadams said:


> Yikes!  I remember paying about $1/MB for a "huge" 320MB hard drive once. But okay...you win. I'll stop complaining.


The first hard drives I ever purchased (although not for persoanl use) were a pair of 12" removable media 8Mb hard drives. They cost $12,000 in 1981. Allowing for inflation, that's over $2000 per Meg, or $2 Billion for a 1T drive! I also remember paying $500 for 48K of memory in 1983. By that metric, the machine at which I am now sitting has $87 Million worth of memory in it.


----------



## richsadams

lrhorer said:


> The first hard drives I ever purchased (although not for persoanl use) were a pair of 12" removable media 8Mb hard drives. They cost $12,000 in 1981. Allowing for inflation, that's over $2000 per Meg, or $2 Billion for a 1T drive! I also remember paying $500 for 48K of memory in 1983. By that metric, the machine at which I am now sitting has $87 Million worth of memory in it.


I read somewhere that those (often annoying) greeting cards that record your voice to make grandma weep on her birthday have more memory and processing power than the original ENIAC. Not sure how much the ENIAC cost...but...


----------



## jlib

richsadams said:


> ...I found the [ST315005N4A1AS-RK] specs on their web site but I can't find anything about the seek noise levels. Since it's a 5900RPM drive I'd think it would be fairly quiet. How would you rate the one you just put in against the original? TIA.


You can usually find Seagate specs in their PDF library (26 dB for ST315005N4A1AS-RK). The Seagate Barracuda LP (Low Power) series is basically the equivalent of WDC's Green Power series. So, even though Seagate doesn't participate in the AAM standards, some of their drives are quiet enough that it doesn't matter. The catch is to make sure you get the right model because some recent Seagates are real chatterboxes.

I think the Seagate ST315005N4A1AS-RK will be the next drive I use for my S3 just to get that silly extra bit of space.


----------



## jlib

mmmesq said:


> I just put a st315005n4a1as-rk in my Series 3 and it bumped my HD hours from 142 to 213 (WinMFS SuperSize option in use). I also tested the soft reboot from the Settings > Restart option and no more hang at Powering Up screen.
> 
> Fry's just had a Friday sale for these for just $104.99 (should still be going on), when most online sellers have this part for around $150.
> 
> That's the report from this guinea pig.


Thanks very much for the compatibility info and the heads-up about the Fry's sale. I got two off at the $104.99 price which even with tax I come out ahead compared to the typical street price as you mentioned. Note that a TiVo user would want the ST315005N*4*A1AS-RK LP version of the 1.5 TB and not the louder ST315005N*1*A1AS-RK regular one.

Also note that online shoppers won't be able to search for the model number at Fry's and get the sale price for some reason so enter via this link which uses Fry's internal part number instead.


----------



## jbrady3324

Any disadvantages/advantages between these 2?

B&H has the My DVR Expander for $129 (backordered) which is a very good price
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...Digital_WDG1S10000VN_1TB_My_DVR_Expander.html

Worth jumping on this since this will be a little cheaper than the WD+Casing? Or you could suggest an enclosure


----------



## richsadams

jbrady3324 said:


> Any disadvantages/advantages between these 2?
> 
> B&H has the My DVR Expander for $129 (backordered) which is a very good price
> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...Digital_WDG1S10000VN_1TB_My_DVR_Expander.html
> 
> Worth jumping on this since this will be a little cheaper than the WD+Casing?


The WD My DVR Expander (500GB or 1TB) is an external (eSATA) hard drive designed to be plug and pray for the TiVo Series3, TiVo HD or TiVo HDXL. It has a one-year warranty. The caveat is that _only_ the My DVR Expander can be installed via P&P with the TiVo HD and TiVo HDXL. What TiVo model do you have?

The WD10EVVS carries a three-year warranty and sells for <$100 right now. The Antec MX-1 enclosure also carries a three-year warranty.

Building an eSATA drive using the WD10EVVS and a recommended enclosure such as an Antec MX-1 would be a little more expensive. The difference in warranties is also a consideration. (And if you have a Series3 or not.)

Hope that helps!


----------



## jbrady3324

richsadams said:


> I'm not clear about what you want to do. The WD10EVVS is a bare hard drive good for internal upgrades for the TiVo Series3 and TiVo HD. It has a three-year warranty. It's selling for <$100 in a few places now.
> 
> The WD My DVR Expander (500GB or 1TB) is an external (eSATA) hard drive designed to be plug and pray for the TiVo Series3, TiVo HD or TiVo HDXL. It has a one-year warranty.
> 
> If you asking if building an eSATA drive using the WD10EVVS and a recommended enclosure such as an Antec MX-1, the My DVR Expander would be a little less expensive. The caveat is that only the My DVR Expander can be installed via P&P with the TiVo HD. The difference in warranties is also a consideration.
> 
> If that didn't help, post a little more specifically about what you'd like to do.


Thanks Rich. I guess I was a bit unclear, however you provided all the info I needed.

John


----------



## richsadams

jbrady3324 said:


> Thanks Rich. I guess I was a bit unclear, however you provided all the info I needed.
> 
> Does the WD HD or Antec enclosure include a e-sata cable?
> 
> John


My apologies...I didn't read your first post correctly. I updated my post. Hope it makes more sense now.


----------



## jbrady3324

ahh, okay makes more sense now. I have a Series 3 Tivo.

Does the WD10EVVS or Antec enclosure come with an e-sata cable?


----------



## richsadams

jbrady3324 said:


> Does the WD10EVVS or Antec enclosure come with an e-sata cable?


The WD10EVVS is a bare drive, nothing else included. The Antec MX-1 comes with it's own eSATA cable, power supply, etc.

I had that exact setup w/our TiVo Series3 (except a 500GB drive - 1TB was only a dream then) in an Antec MX-1 enclosure when TiVo first activated the eSATA port a couple of years ago and it worked great. I've since upgraded the internal hard drive but I still use the MX-1 as an external back up for one of our computers...still humming along. :up:


----------



## jbrady3324

richsadams said:


> The WD10EVVS is a bare drive, nothing else included. The Antec MX-1 comes with it's own eSATA cable, power supply, etc.


Great! Provantage is not very clear about the Antec enclosure including a cable (even though other sites say it does) so I just wanted to double check.


----------



## richsadams

jbrady3324 said:


> Great! Provantage is not very clear about the Antec enclosure including a cable (even though other sites say it does) so I just wanted to double check.


Yep, that's all you'll need. Be sure to connect it per the instructions (www.tivo.com/expand). Basically you want to unplug TiVo, connect the eSATA drive, power it up, wait 10 seconds or so for it to spin up, then plug TiVo back in. There will be a found/"unsupported drive" warning screen. I can't recall if you just click on "Add" or three thumbs up or whatever, but just tell it you want to install it and it'll be fine. (For anyone else, that only applies to TiVo Series3's as they will accept eSATA drives other than the WD My DVR Expander via P&P.)

BTW, Antec has a nice little drive installation video here (scroll down and click on "Video"):

http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=NzA0MjIx

Happy upgrading!


----------



## SC0TLANDF0REVER

alyssa said:


> Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I saw the MSFLive disk option. I was even able to generate a command line from the generator. I'm a bit unsure of using the boot CD. I guess I'm afraid it won't be as easy to follow as I found the MFSwin a year or 2 ago. Plus, I want to do the upgrade asap before the fall season starts.
> 
> The thing that gets me is, according to everything I've read, it should be possible to use winmfs. I've never touched my internal hd & married my external via Kickstart. Both facts seem to be critical according to what I've gleaned from Spike's site. And according to the boot CD duel drive to single drive page, it is possible to do it via winmfs. Question is, can I figure out how to do it.
> 
> I just found a possible road block. I've got a 1TB EVVS in house. Apparently, a 250 + a 750 is a little more than 1GB. I wonder if deleting a huge amount of recordings will also reduce the size transferred. I had assumed (I know, I know ) that the more I deleted prior to transfer the smaller the destination drive would need to be. Anyone?


I'm in the exact same boat as you. Unfortunately, I have no feedback to offer in regards to getting this to work. I've resigned myself to backing up my recordings to Mac and PC. If I can transfer them back to the TiVo from the PC, and it doesn't work I'll at least have them on my Mac for posterity.

Crossing fingers that I can get my TiVo up and running this week in time for the new shows coming up! Most important = Fringe in HD OTA!


----------



## lew

alyssa said:


> I just found a possible road block. I've got a 1TB EVVS in house. Apparently, a 250 + a 750 is a little more than 1GB. I wonder if deleting a huge amount of recordings will also reduce the size transferred. I had assumed (I know, I know ) that the more I deleted prior to transfer the smaller the destination drive would need to be. Anyone?


You might post in the MFSLIVE forums. Older tools copied deleted recordings. I don't know about mfslive and I don't know if permanently deleting the show from the recently deleted folder changes anything.

Older tools wouldn't let you copy recordings if the new drive wasn't as large as the old drive. Some drives with the same capacity are slightly smaller and some people had "issues".


----------



## CoryTV

I accidentally ordered the iOmega 1TB dvr expander after reading the "series 3 works with generic exteral eSata" and not realizing the Tivo HD *is not* series 3. (I didn't read closely, I know, I know..)

Anyhow, too lazy to return and impetuous, I went ahead and took everything apart. The iOmega 1TB DVR expander comes with a Pipeline HD.2 Seagate drive.

http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/products/consumer_electronics/pipeline/

Nice, actually. The unit also is an "always on" design because it is made for DVRs. Very quiet, low heat, good performance. So, while I understand the "hard switch" directive, I actually think this is as-good or better, because it doesn't have any fancy circuitry inside, like alot of other enclosures--it's designed for always-on DVR performance. The enclosure is the same-- aluminum, with insulated "heat wicks" inside to move the heat to the metal enclosure without any fans.

Venturing into my Boot Camp Windows 7 partition in order to run WinMFS, (as administrator) I backed up the main drive, married the drive.

First time,I got an error code when I tried to marry the drives. GSOD, reboot loop. Got a clue, and figured it was MacDrive, so I disabled it. Deleted the partitions, restored from backup (with age comes wisdom, I've learned) and then re-married. No error.

Hooked them up, (drive connected and powered on 1st) and presto, 1.16 GiB or so. No recordings, and I only have an OTA antenna, no cable, so it will take me a while to fill it, but looks good so far, and with the Pipeline HD in there, I feel pretty good about it long term.

Thanks for the FAQ. And while I would have rather had a PnP enclosure to save myself an hour or two, I feel like this one is pretty solid...

It's good to be back in the land of TiVo.

Edited to add: I should mention I used an eSata double dock with a si 3132 chip based card in windows to do the update, so it was really plug-and-play on that side.


----------



## alyssa

Thanks Lew,
Yeah, I feel kinda funny making the mistake of getting a drive prior to *really* diving deep into the process but it's a done deal now. I did post on the mfslive forums, no replies. I already have permanently deleted about half the shows.

I'm going to start the process on Wednesday after the kid is on the bus.
The first thing will be to DL both mfswin & mfslive & burn a disk. I'm gonna try the mfswin just 'cuz after thinking about it for so long I just have to see if it's possible. 
I'll mount both my internal & external as source drives, 
attempt to do a backup, & then (fingers crossed) 
transfer. 
If I get an error then I'll revert to mfslive to make sure the error wasn't due to mfswin's capabilities. 
If I get an error in mfslive then also I'll assume my destination drive is too small. 

If I'm unable to transfer the recordings using either mfswin/live due to a small destination drive then I'll revert to mfswin and attempt to divorce the external drive without putting them back into the tivo/external enclosure etc all.

My biggest concern is being able to do a back-up prior to starting the process. I'm not sure it's possible to do a back-up because of not divorcing & mounting *two* sorce drives. 
Dealing with TW is such a pain. Hey, here's another question, Can I use another unmodified internal HD for an image even if it's got different Cablecards attached? I've got my old internal hd form my other S3. I'm trying to avoid buying Instacake if I mess up.

Scotlandforever,
I'll post my results on Wednesday or Thursday. I was hopeful that I could get mfswin to transfer my shows prior to my booboo regarding the destination drive size.
Unfortunately TimeWarner's draconian copying flags are a huge roadblock to moving shows over to my pc.


----------



## richsadams

CoryTV said:


> I accidentally ordered the iOmega 1TB dvr expander after reading the "series 3 works with generic exteral eSata" <snip>


Very brave and nice work. Good info too. :up:

Enjoy!


----------



## cuyahoga

I suspect that the WD DVR Expander I purchased for my Series 3 the moment they were available is dying.

I've seen the same symptoms as others have experienced. SD video is fine, HD is not, with macroblocking, audio drops and freezes occuring.

KS52 did not turn up any drive errors (for what that's worth).

I swapped the original eSATA cables with the recommend one with no improvement so I'm going to try to extricate the drive from the WD enclosure and use the recommended Antec enclosure.

Anything I should be on the lookout for as I move the drive?


----------



## richsadams

cuyahoga said:


> I suspect that the WD DVR Expander I purchased for my Series 3 the moment they were available is dying.
> 
> I've seen the same symptoms as others have experienced. SD video is fine, HD is not, with macroblocking, audio drops and freezes occuring.
> 
> KS52 did not turn up any drive errors (for what that's worth).
> 
> I swapped the original eSATA cables with the recommend one with improvement so I'm going to try to extricate the drive from the WD enclosure and use the recommended Antec enclosure.
> 
> Anything I should be on the lookout for as I move the drive?


If replacing the SATA cable cured the problem, there's really no reason to pull the drive IMHO...unless you want a spiffy new fan cooled enclosure.  The original SATA cables supplied with the early WD My DVR Expanders were notoriously bad. I'm surprised it took this long for yours to act up!

In any case, since the WD enclosures seem to be problematic at some point, if you do pull the drive and pop it in a new enclosure, just be sure to follow the proper disconnect/connect procedures:

www.tivo.com/expand.

Basically you want to unplug TiVo, disconnect the "old" drive, conduct the surgical procedure, connect the "new" eSATA drive, power it up, wait 10 seconds or so for it to spin up, then plug TiVo back in.

If you do make the switch I know I and others would appreciate it if you'd post your results. TIA! :up:


----------



## cuyahoga

Thanks, and I meant to say the eSATA cable was replaced with NO improvement. Forgot that important word!

I'll report back on how the surgery goes once the drive enclosure ships from Amazon.


----------



## CoryTV

Is it possible the WDs are just getting too full or fragmented? Has anyone reformatted on a PC then reconnected to a Tivo to see if performance returns? 3-4 stream HD video takes a lot from a drive, and if its very full/fragmented, it might be dropping performance. (2 buffers written, 1 watching and potentially 1 HMO simultaneously)

This whole "SD works but HD doesn't" thing is very suspect to me-- that sounds like 100&#37; datarate, and that is a *weird* way for an enclosure to fail. Cable, maybe, and error correction is getting some back? Still though-- sounds a whole lot more like full drive/fragmentation....

Apologies if this has been covered already.


----------



## richsadams

CoryTV said:


> Is it possible the WDs are just getting too full or fragmented? Has anyone reformatted on a PC then reconnected to a Tivo to see if performance returns? 3-4 stream HD video takes a lot from a drive, and if its very full/fragmented, it might be dropping performance. (2 buffers written, 1 watching and potentially 1 HMO simultaneously)
> 
> This whole "SD works but HD doesn't" thing is very suspect to me-- that sounds like 100% datarate, and that is a *weird* way for an enclosure to fail. Cable, maybe, and error correction is getting some back? Still though-- sounds a whole lot more like full drive/fragmentation....
> 
> Apologies if this has been covered already.


Not a bad theory. However there are a number of reports where the hard drive was simply moved to a new enclosure to resolve the issue. (Recordings intact, etc.) The drive wasn't reformatted, no change _except_ the enclosure. 

The symptoms of a failing eSATA drive (bad enclosure, cable, etc.) are generally stuttering, sometime pixelization/macroblocking and/or the TiVo becoming unresponsive.

The SD Vs HD issue is usually the sign of actual hard drive failure (internal or external). In some cases removing or replacing the external drive resolves the issue, in others the internal drive has to be replaced. Recordings are striped across both drives so AFAIK there's no reason to think that the external drive would be any more subject to data corruption than the internal. Fragmentation in the Unix/Linux/TiVo world isn't generally an issue as it is with a Windows environment.

You're correct in that HD data throughput is a great deal higher. A failing drive may begin to exhibit problems when error correction can't keep up or it may be bad sectors or other issues.


----------



## richsadams

cuyahoga said:


> Thanks, and I meant to say the eSATA cable was replaced with NO improvement. Forgot that important word!
> 
> I'll report back on how the surgery goes once the drive enclosure ships from Amazon.


Got it. TIA!


----------



## MPSAN

lrhorer said:


> The first hard drives I ever purchased (although not for persoanl use) were a pair of 12" removable media 8Mb hard drives. They cost $12,000 in 1981. Allowing for inflation, that's over $2000 per Meg, or $2 Billion for a 1T drive! I also remember paying $500 for 48K of memory in 1983. By that metric, the machine at which I am now sitting has $87 Million worth of memory in it.


Just checking in from Westfir, OR (Rich may even know where that is) and I do remember those drives for the IBM 360!


----------



## deaddeeds

Just wanted to say I bought a WD10EVCS  63E0B0 back in Jan 09 and it started causing my TiVo HD to reboot randomly. As soon as I put the original TiVo Hard Drive back in, the TiVo started behaving normally again. I am starting to question the quality of Western Digital products. Anybody else have/having a problem with the WD10EVCS?


----------



## jlib

deaddeeds said:


> Just wanted to say I bought a WD10EVCS  63E0B0 back in Jan 09 and it started causing my TiVo HD to reboot randomly. As soon as I put the original TiVo Hard Drive back in, the TiVo started behaving normally again. I am starting to question the quality of Western Digital products. Anybody else have/having a problem with the WD10EVCS?


If you still have the drive you can run the WD diagnostics on it to see if it is defective.


----------



## deaddeeds

jlib said:


> If you still have the drive you can run the WD diagnostics on it to see if it is defective.


I ran the quick test and no errors were found. The extended test is going to take 3 hours I will do that later.


----------



## armstrr

ok, so i have read about 7 pages so far and searched for info about using 2 tb internal drives. it appears, according to the first page that it is not possible. i see two ebay sellers with them for sale....is this a scam? ebay auctions 220474752169 and 260459062178. i think 260$ is reasonable for a "no external box" solution if it is truly plug and play, uses a reliable drive and you actually get 318hrs of HD recording. 

I just searched another major retail Tivo upgrade company and they too are providing 2tb internal solutions Can anyone comment on this?


----------



## alyssa

richsadams said:


> Due to litigation years ago Seagate was forced to officially withdraw AAM support on thier drives so Seagate drive acoustics cannot be adjusted. Seagate DB35 dedicated AV drives are recommended since they already have lowered acoustics. Some of their newer models seem to have better acoustic specs as well.
> 
> There are a couple of third-party Windows programs that can adjust the AAM (controlling I/O, primarily seek speed, and by slowing access times and lowering sequential reads) for PC's, but they do not actually change the AAM settings of the drive itself.
> 
> The Hitachi Feature Tool works fine on WD and of course Hitachi hard drives.


Rich, I assume this is still the case with Seagate drives? That quote was from last Jan. I've got a Seagate ST3750640AS, 750GB. I just took it out of my eSATA & was hoping too quite it down a bit.


----------



## richsadams

alyssa said:


> Rich, I assume this is still the case with Seagate drives? That quote was from last Jan. I've got a Seagate ST3750640AS, 750GB. I just took it out of my eSATA & was hoping too quite it down a bit.


Hi alyssa. With Seagates you get what you get; still no way to change the seek activity/acoustics. They do make AV drives that are as quiet as any...but some are real thrashing machines. Not sure about the model you have...although it sounds like it's violating the "seen and not heard" rule.


----------



## richsadams

armstrr said:


> ok, so i have read about 7 pages so far and searched for info about using 2 tb internal drives. it appears, according to the first page that it is not possible. i see two ebay sellers with them for sale....is this a scam? ebay auctions 220474752169 and 260459062178. i think 260$ is reasonable for a "no external box" solution if it is truly plug and play, uses a reliable drive and you actually get 318hrs of HD recording.
> 
> I just searched another major retail Tivo upgrade company and they too are providing 2tb internal solutions Can anyone comment on this?


IIRC you cannot have a single partition larger than 1TB and a 2TB drive will create a partition larger than 1 TB so a simple upgrade as outlined in the first post won't work with current TiVo software "as is".

However, if you're up for some coding I think it will work if you hack the kernel and apply a couple of patches, but I've never felt the need to go that far. I've read posts where people have taken a day or more to hand code a 2TB drive to get it to work...but they are much braver and wiser (and have far more patience) than yours truly.

Otherwise everything mentioned in the first post on this sticky about 1.5TB drives for the Series3 and TiVo HD would also apply to a 2TB.

That said I know the TCF sponsor, DVRUpgrade is selling a 2TB drive for about $500 so they've apparently done some legwork. They are very genuine and more than trustworthy. Can't speak for anyone else selling something similar.

You could also check winMFS author Spike on the MFSlive.org Forum (http://mfslive.org/forums/) for more info.


----------



## alyssa

Thanks Rich, I had hoped to quite the external. oh well...

As to my upgrade of a stock internal S3 and a kickstart married external;
in short, I ended up upgrading the internal to 1TB, losing all the recordings, remarrying the external, and supersizing. This gives me 251 hd hours.

I tried to use mfswin to combing both the 250GB & my external, 750GB but was unsuccessful. At first I had difficulties selecting a b drive, when the correct drive was selected it would not show up in the bottom tray and I'd get the error #9 A drive is married to B but only A's selected. This might have been caused by a faulty cable.
At one point I was able to get past this to the mfscopy screen but a windows box popped up stating the program has stopped running. The mfscopy screen was grayed out but I could make out this error "combing 2 drives to 1 is not supported yet'

I then attempted mfslive. Being a *complete* novice in such languages I found it difficult to simply navigate. Two commands I'd recommend are
fdisk -1 --This list's all attached drives with their size. This way a person can double check to make sure they're going to & from the correct drive.
I think this will work too Shift (and the up arrow key) This should enable a person to look back at an explanation that scrolled by too fast to read.

I was able to get to the point of receiving the following error;
/dev/sda/dev/sdb10:not a directory This was in response to the following;
backup -qTao - /dev/sda /dev/sdb | restore -s 128 -zpi - /dev/sdc

At this point I needed to move on & decided to lose all my recordings. In mfswin I attempted to restore from the back up I had preformed earlier while the original HD was married to the external & was unable to do so. In other words; I learned that a back up done while the drives are married are not useful when attempting to restore to a single drive. No real surprise there.

Couple of thoughts;
A *basic* lenix keyboard navigation tutorial might be helpful to those of us who are n00b about such stuff. For example in typing the command, I was unsure if I was suppose to add spaces between the - and the /. Silly stuff I know but it would be a great addition to the community knowledge base and help those of us who aren't afraid of trying something new but get baffled by the basics. Yes, I do realize that a little bit of knowledge could get me in deep, deep doodoo. But that's for me to figure out.

I wonder why I've only ended up with 251 HD hours. A 1TB internal (157hours) plus a 750GB (131hours) should equal 288 hd hours. I did supersize the internal. I didn't think of supersizing the external. Would that give me the extra 37 hours? Or am I missing something else?

Going forward, I'd be interested in the results if anyone else tries a 2 to 1 transfer with a 1.5TB drive using mfswin.

eta This would have been very helpful!!


> I get the following error:
> 
> Backup: /dev/sda10: Success.
> To attempt backup anyway, try again with -E. -s is implied by -E
> snip answer from spike
> Use the following command w/o "p"
> backup -qTao - /dev/sda /dev/sdb | restore -s 128 -zi - /dev/sdc


----------



## jbrady3324

I just installed 1TB WD10EVVS HD via e-sata on my Tivo HD Series 3. Few hours after installing, my Tivo rebooted for the first time in a long long time (maybe ever). 

Any known issues with this drive or possibly it is just a fluke? Bad drive?


----------



## jbrady3324

jbrady3324 said:


> I just installed 1TB WD10EVVS HD via e-sata on my Tivo HD Series 3. Few hours after installing, my Tivo rebooted for the first time in a long long time (maybe ever).
> 
> Any known issues with this drive or possibly it is just a fluke? Bad drive?


It started to record The Office and Fringe tonight and rebooted.


----------



## bkdtv

What enclosure and eSATA cable did you use?

You could see reboots if (a) the eSATA cable is defective or has a connector of inappropriate length, (b) the external drive is defective, (c) the external enclosure is incompatible, and/or (d) the eSATA cable is not firmly connected on both ends and/or is moved while connected.

With third-party solutions for the Series3, an eSATA cable with an inadequately sized connector is probably the most common source of problems.


----------



## alyssa

How much space should an internal 1TB and a external 750GB give me?

I recently did an upgrade & am getting 251 HD hours, is this correct? I did supersize my internal but didn't attempt to do so on my external. 
eta; If I'm reading the first post correctly, I think it should be 157hd(internal) plus 131hd(external)=288hd hours.


----------



## jbrady3324

bkdtv said:


> What enclosure and eSATA cable did you use?
> 
> You could see reboots if (a) the eSATA cable is defective or has a connector of inappropriate length, (b) the external drive is defective, (c) the external enclosure is incompatible, and/or (d) the eSATA cable is not firmly connected on both ends and/or is moved while connected.
> 
> With third-party solutions for the Series3, an eSATA cable with an inadequately sized connector is probably the most common source of problems.


I am using the Antec MX-1 and the eSATA cable that came with it. Seems to be plenty long.
I may be in luck. Provantage just sent me another hard drive by mistake!


----------



## SC0TLANDF0REVER

alyssa said:


> Thanks Rich, I had hoped to quite the external. oh well...
> 
> As to my upgrade of a stock internal S3 and a kickstart married external;
> in short, I ended up upgrading the internal to 1TB, losing all the recordings, remarrying the external, and supersizing. This gives me 251 hd hours.
> 
> I tried to use mfswin to combing both the 250GB & my external, 750GB but was unsuccessful. At first I had difficulties selecting a b drive, when the correct drive was selected it would not show up in the bottom tray and I'd get the error #9 A drive is married to B but only A's selected. This might have been caused by a faulty cable.
> At one point I was able to get past this to the mfscopy screen but a windows box popped up stating the program has stopped running. The mfscopy screen was grayed out but I could make out this error "combing 2 drives to 1 is not supported yet'
> 
> I then attempted mfslive. Being a *complete* novice in such languages I found it difficult to simply navigate. Two commands I'd recommend are
> fdisk -1 --This list's all attached drives with their size. This way a person can double check to make sure they're going to & from the correct drive.
> I think this will work too Shift (and the up arrow key) This should enable a person to look back at an explanation that scrolled by too fast to read.
> 
> I was able to get to the point of receiving the following error;
> /dev/sda/dev/sdb10:not a directory This was in response to the following;
> backup -qTao - /dev/sda /dev/sdb | restore -s 128 -zpi - /dev/sdc
> 
> At this point I needed to move on & decided to lose all my recordings. In mfswin I attempted to restore from the back up I had preformed earlier while the original HD was married to the external & was unable to do so. In other words; I learned that a back up done while the drives are married are not useful when attempting to restore to a single drive. No real surprise there.
> 
> Couple of thoughts;
> A *basic* lenix keyboard navigation tutorial might be helpful to those of us who are n00b about such stuff. For example in typing the command, I was unsure if I was suppose to add spaces between the - and the /. Silly stuff I know but it would be a great addition to the community knowledge base and help those of us who aren't afraid of trying something new but get baffled by the basics. Yes, I do realize that a little bit of knowledge could get me in deep, deep doodoo. But that's for me to figure out.
> 
> I wonder why I've only ended up with 251 HD hours. A 1TB internal (157hours) plus a 750GB (131hours) should equal 288 hd hours. I did supersize the internal. I didn't think of supersizing the external. Would that give me the extra 37 hours? Or am I missing something else?
> 
> Going forward, I'd be interested in the results if anyone else tries a 2 to 1 transfer with a 1.5TB drive using mfswin.
> 
> eta This would have been very helpful!!


Alyssa, thanks for the update. I've resigned myself that I'm going to lose my recordings since hooking up the External (Feb 08-ish).
I agree with your sentiment about the basic Linux commands for newbs...
it would help them navigate easier and help them understand what's happening when they enter the commands.

Today is the day I have time to fix the TiVo. I'm torn between using MFSWin or Instant Cake for upgrading.
I'm just gonna install a fresh drive into the TiVo and keep the old one for backup.


----------



## richsadams

alyssa said:


> How much space should an internal 1TB and a external 750GB give me?


I guessed about 260 so 251 isn't too far off IMO. Part of the space (albeit small) is utilized by the OS, so it wouldn't be the full capacity of both drives exactly.

I've really no idea if you can in fact supersize an expansion drive.  Something tells me you can't because it has to do with the partitions (ostensibly on the internal drive), but I can't say for sure.


----------



## richsadams

jbrady3324 said:


> I am using the Antec MX-1 and the eSATA cable that came with it. Seems to be plenty long.
> I may be in luck. Provantage just sent me another hard drive by mistake!


The SATA cable that came with my MX-1 worked fine. There was a time about two summers ago when they had some real problems with them, but I think they've been doing fairly well since then. Be sure they are snug.

They sent you a hard drive for the price of a SATA cable? Wow! Their inventory control must not be so good.


----------



## richsadams

SC0TLANDF0REVER said:


> Today is the day I have time to fix the TiVo. I'm torn between using MFSWin or Instant Cake for upgrading.
> I'm just gonna install a fresh drive into the TiVo and keep the old one for backup.


As long as there's not a problem with your internal drive, using winMFS is the way to go. It will keep all of your core information including season passes, etc., plus, and most importantly, your cable card paring. Instant Cake is a great program, but using it is like getting a brand new TiVo. You have to run guided setup, have your cable company re-pair your cards (unless you have FIOS) and that usually means a truck roll, etc.

Keeping the original drive on the shelf is absolutely the way to go. If your new drive fails sometime down the road you will always be able to pop the old one back in and be up and running in minutes. Plus you will always have a fresh image to use on a replacement drive. :up:

Happy upgrading!


----------



## SC0TLANDF0REVER

Yeah - this is frustrating. I decided to use InstantCake and I can't get it to see the CDROM. It sees it in the initial setup, but I can't mount it.


----------



## SC0TLANDF0REVER

richsadams said:


> As long as there's not a problem with your internal drive, using winMFS is the way to go. It will keep all of your core information including season passes, etc., plus, and most importantly, your cable card paring. Instant Cake is a great program, but using it is like getting a brand new TiVo. You have to run guided setup, have your cable company re-pair your cards (unless you have FIOS) and that usually means a truck roll, etc.
> 
> Keeping the original drive on the shelf is absolutely the way to go. If your new drive fails sometime down the road you will always be able to pop the old one back in and be up and running in minutes. Plus you will always have a fresh image to use on a replacement drive. :up:
> 
> Happy upgrading!


Thanks Rich! I think after running into issues with IC, I'm going to try winMFS.


----------



## alyssa

Scotlandforever;
mfswin is dead on straight forward.
I got into problems most likely because of a bad sata cable and the wrong destination drive size. 
If you want to save the recordings and your destination drive is big enough, mfslive is manageable to the novice. I got into problems because the command line was wrong. Spike posted the corrected command line;
backup -qTao - /dev/sda /dev/sdb | restore -s 128 -zi - /dev/sdc 

this line is different than the command line generator, it does not have a "p" in the -zpi(?)


----------



## alyssa

richsadams said:


> I guessed about 260 so 251 isn't too far off IMO. Part of the space (albeit small) is utilized by the OS, so it wouldn't be the full capacity of both drives exactly.
> 
> I've really no idea if you can in fact supersize an expansion drive.  Something tells me you can't because it has to do with the partitions (ostensibly on the internal drive), but I can't say for sure.


Thank you
I may try to supersize the external, just 'cuz it isn't broke so I need to fix it some more.

I kept thinking the internal listed size plus the external listed size should be what I have for space. I guess [288(157internal+139external)-251=] 37 hd hours just seems like a lot of hours to go missing. According to the first post if I had added a 1T instead of the 750GB, I would have had 300-318HD hours.

I'm wondering about the external Seagate drive. It's been in use ever since the kickstart addition was enabled. Bad sectors? I didn't think to run a diagnostic on it before marrying it back to the S3.
If I took it out of the system, wiped everything, then re-marred it to my S3 perhaps it would address the partition issue?


----------



## richsadams

alyssa said:


> If I took it out of the system, wiped everything, then re-marred it to my S3 perhaps it would address the partition issue?


Might be worth a try, but I kind of doubt it. I'm not so "mathy" but my calculations still only put it at about 260 so only 9 HD hours short...but hey, whatever the case it does seem like there may be more space there somewhere.

Mind you it's all an estimate. Some HD recordings are larger than others depending on compression, so the actual figure can never be exact.

Let us know how it goes!


----------



## alyssa

where do you get your numbers from? I'm pulling numbers from the first post part IV section 6. I *very well* might have mis-understood a basic premise. In other words, I make silly mistakes sometimes.  

1T(157 hours) + 500GB (104 hours) = 161 hours
1T(157 hours) + 750GB (131 hours) = 288 hours
1T(157 hours) + 1TGB (176 hours) = 333 hours

Regardless of the final number, it's an interesting problem. I might get to this on Monday. I wonder how many recordings I'd loose.

On a side note; I had both the old Seagate 750GB & the new EVV green drive hooked up for hours without any cooling fans. The EVVS was barely warm, the old Seagate was hot. I wish, I had gotten a watt reading on the tivo prior to the upgrade. It'd be interesting finding out how much less power it uses with the new EVVS drive.


----------



## jlib

Of course, I'm saying 1.5TB ironically here. I got a Seagate 1.5TB ST315005N4A1AS-RK this week on the Fry's sale. Member mmmesq had already demonstrated that this 5900 RPM drive works if limited to 1.35TB on the S3. Similarly, Dssturbo1 had already shown its 7200 RPM sibling also works in the same manner on the S3.

So here I am, not having to forge any paths or experiment. Should be easy. I had always previously used the mfstools Linux command line on previous upgrades so I am used to checking and triple checking to make sure the command line is correct. Winmfs is so easy I was lulled into complacency. Part of this might be due to me underestimating the 6.5 hours it took to transfer my existing full 1TB drive.

So, it was long into the wee hours when I was finally finishing up and anxious to get to bed. At the mfsadd point a warning pops up saying something like the drive is too big and is incompatible, do you want to continue. Of course I want to continue, lets get this thing done! I already knew it couldn't use the whole amount of space. I figured it would just give me the correct amount.

What it really said was that if I continue winmfs will happily make an incompatible final partition bigger than 1TB, not that the drive was going to be bigger than 1TB as I thought it was saying. I pretty much realized what I had done after I clicked on continue but there is no undo so I cursed my carelessness and cursed winmfs for allowing the safety to be taken off the trigger without a more dire warning or at least more a self-documenting one.

So, anyway, it really does boot up as a 1.5TB system but, as expected, the dreaded auto-reboots kick in in about 5 minutes.

For the 7 hours of wasted work I am at least going to get the dubious satisfaction of posting my bogus recording hours. Heh, heh...










At least now that I know how long the transfer will take I can plan better tonight.


----------



## bkdtv

jlib said:


> So, it was long into the wee hours when I was finally finishing up and anxious to get to bed. At the mfsadd point a warning pops up saying something like the drive is too big and is incompatible, do you want to continue. Of course I want to continue, lets get this thing done! I already knew it couldn't use the whole amount of space. I figured it would just give me the correct amount.


That was your mistake. ;(

From the FAQ:



> *I thought the latest version of WinMFS supported unlimited capacities?*
> 
> That option is only for TiVos with a hacked PROM (chip on the motherboard). All other TiVos are still limited to the capacities noted in FAQ #5 above.
> 
> Under the latest version of WinMFS (v9.3f), you are given two options when you select a drive larger than 1.1 TB:
> 
> 
> restrict expansion to 1.1 TB (1.0 TiB) *plus* the capacity of the original drive
> 
> do not restrict expansion -- *only* for TiVos with hacked PROMs
> 
> You need to choose the first option to restrict expansion to 1.1 TB (1.0 TiB). If you choose option #2, the drive will not work unless you have a TiVo with a hacked PROM.


If you do this upgrade again, perhaps you could take a screenshot of the message so I can update the FAQ with the correct text to minimize potential confusion?


----------



## jlib

bkdtv said:


> If you do this upgrade again, perhaps you could take a screenshot of the message so I can update the FAQ with the correct text to minimize potential confusion?


Sure, I am going to do another upgrade tonight. It would have been nice if _your_ text was in the popup.


----------



## dholzlein

A bit over a year ago I used winMFS to successfully upgrade my TiVo HD to 1T by putting a WD10EACS internal. This afternoon I added a WD10EADS internally, fot a 2T total. Yes, I did the internal... based on an attachment method I read on the MFSLive forums. HD 318hrs / SD 2777hrs. 

I bought a 3in piece of 6-32 threaded rod from Lowes. I used a Dremel cutoff bit to put a notch in the end of the rod, and then cut it off about 3/8in long. I used an appropriate nut (purchased separately) to clean up the threads. I then made 3 more similarly. (Only need 2, but wanted spares, just in case...) I then fully threaded one of these into the forward most side mounting screw of one drive, with the notch to the inside. (in enough for the outside to be flush) I then partly threaded a second rod into the center side mount screw. I then spun the second drive onto the first, on the other end of the protruding rod. Once they were snug and lined up, I used a small screwdriver to screw the frontmost rod into the second drive. I used a SATA power splitter to power both drives. The male end of the splitter required me to remove a small alignment tab off the connector in order to not interfere with the TiVo Power/Data combo connector. I used two separate SATA data cables to connect the drives to the motherboard and left the original TiVo data connectors unattached.

I didn't want to take the extra table space and cable risk of an external install. Now I have some space again, just in time for football season to get really going. I did take some pictures if there's interest.


----------



## richsadams

alyssa said:


> where do you get your numbers from? I'm pulling numbers from the first post part IV section 6. I *very well* might have mis-understood a basic premise. In other words, I make silly mistakes sometimes.
> 
> 1T(157 hours) + 500GB (104 hours) = 161 hours
> 1T(157 hours) + 750GB (131 hours) = 288 hours
> 1T(157 hours) + 1TGB (176 hours) = 333 hours


I forgot that list was even in the first post. Silly me...I wasn't following my own guideline. Of course the expansion drive would be fully used while the internal would use some space for the OS. D'oh.  So, yes 288 hours or so is obviously right.

Are you sure the supesizing of the internal took? You could pull it and try supersizing again...it won't affect anything else. Just a thought. Still not sure if you can supersize the eSATA drive or not.


----------



## richsadams

dholzlein said:


> A bit over a year ago I used winMFS to successfully upgrade my TiVo HD to 1T by putting a WD10EACS internal. This afternoon I added a WD10EADS internally, fot a 2T total. Yes, I did the internal... based on an attachment method I read on the MFSLive forums. HD 318hrs / SD 2777hrs.


Very nice. IIRC someone else here did the same thing. Everything you describe sounds very similar if not dead on. I remember seeing a series of "how to photos" as well. Posting some pic's of your baby would be most welcome.

Nice work in any case and enjoy! :up:


----------



## irieblue

I upgraded my Tivo HD with a 1 TB drive by doing the truncated backup method, everything seems to have gone fine, although for the Stars channels (Premium content/tier), it looks to have dropped the Authorization, as it just displays a grey screen. Some of the other channels which also need Cable Card authorization come in in fine... So the question is this. Why is it just Stars that's having a problem after the upgrade... Do I need to ask Comcast to hit the card again?


----------



## jlib

bkdtv said:


> If you do this upgrade again, perhaps you could take a screenshot of the message so I can update the FAQ with the correct text to minimize potential confusion?


Here is the verbatim text of the pop up:

_You are about to create a partition larger than 1TB.
It's too large for a stock TiVo to support.
Do you want to limit it to 1TB?_​It is clear enough in the bright light of day but I carelessly read it as limiting the whole drive to 1TB so I said no, don't limit it. I already had a 1TB drive and wanted the extra GBs I could squeeze out of the excess space.

Anyway, I redid it correctly this time. Unfortunately, the spontaneous reboot problem I thought was strictly related to the partition oversize problem is actually more complicated, it appears, because still it persists. Remember last year when people would have reboot problems with winmfs upgraded 1TB drives when upgrading 500GB and 750GB drives that had previously been expanded with mfstools? I am having exactly the same symptoms. It is as if the larger drive has remanifested the bug that had previously been corrected.

Users who have recently done a stock upgrade with the Seagate 1.5TB have reported no problems and it would seem to be the drive of choice for S3 upgrades what with its extra space, TiVo friendly specs, low price point, and 5 year warranty. I also, as usual, did a full long form diagnostics test using Seagate Seatools utility before doing anything with the drive. I have 2 of those drives and I will try the 2nd one next week just to rule out any singularity.

I really like the drive. It appears to be no louder than the WD GP (but I have no way to objectively test it). The Seagate was about 6 degrees F cooler running than the WD but I only measured the surface temperature of the idling drives in open air.

So anyway, until I can investigate the problem further, I would urge caution to anyone considering upgrading an already expanded drive (or at least be prepared for an alternate use for the drive in your computer).


----------



## irieblue

I went back and put the original 160 GB drive back into the Tivo HD, and the cable card auth *still did not work*. I called comcast and asked them to re-hit the card, and that *did not* work even after hard rebooting, although the cable card itself does seem to work as I can receive CNN HD. So now it looks like a truck roll is needed because Comcast can't figure out how to re-send a premium tier to my cable card.


----------



## SC0TLANDF0REVER

I think I borked my original TiVo drive.

I went from Instant Cake to WinMFS, but mistakenly took the internal out before divorcing the DVR Expander. I saw that there is a 'divorce' option in winMFS, so I tried it. I then went through the rest of the steps and the program crashed on me everytime.

I then put the Internal back into the TiVo to see if I could at least use the Internal until I have more time to devote to the project (and to grab Monday nights premieres). I'm stuck in an endless loop of the error screen about removing the external drive. I go through the 'clear' and 'three thumbs down' screens... it restarts but doesn't do anything other than bring the error screen up again.

So I tried to work with the drive again in WinMFS. I tried Tuncated backup, full backup and again WinMFS crashes on me. The program sees the drive correctly as a Tivo drive and the stats are correct, I just can't get anything to work. I see there's talk on MFSLive.org about using IC as a source for data instead of the original drive - has anyone done this and had success?

I just don't know where to go from here... suggestions anyone? 

TIA!


----------



## richsadams

SC0TLANDF0REVER said:


> I think I borked my original TiVo drive.
> 
> I went from Instant Cake to WinMFS, but mistakenly took the internal out before divorcing the DVR Expander. I saw that there is a 'divorce' option in winMFS, so I tried it. I then went through the rest of the steps and the program crashed on me everytime.
> 
> I then put the Internal back into the TiVo to see if I could at least use the Internal until I have more time to devote to the project (and to grab Monday nights premieres). I'm stuck in an endless loop of the error screen about removing the external drive. I go through the 'clear' and 'three thumbs down' screens... it restarts but doesn't do anything other than bring the error screen up again.
> 
> So I tried to work with the drive again in WinMFS. I tried Tuncated backup, full backup and again WinMFS crashes on me. The program sees the drive correctly as a Tivo drive and the stats are correct, I just can't get anything to work. I see there's talk on MFSLive.org about using IC as a source for data instead of the original drive - has anyone done this and had success?
> 
> I just don't know where to go from here... suggestions anyone?
> 
> TIA!


Ouch! There have been a couple of other posts where the OP's disconnected their eSATA drive w/o properly divorcing it...and the rest as they say is history; non-cooperation from the internal drive. All is not lost. Here is what I would do:

1. Use INSTANT CAKE to re-image your original hard drive. (That gets you back to square one.)
2. To upgrade to a larger drive, use your original hard drive (after re-imaging it with IC) and winMFS to image your new, larger hard drive. (See Section V, #18b of the first post on this sticky thread.) 
3. If you want to use an eSATA drive you will need to "marry" it to the new, larger hard drive. (See Section IV, #11 of the first post on this sticky thread.)

In other words if you didn't properly divorce your eSATA drive from your original drive, you won't be able to use the original drive as an image source (the OS is still looking for your eSATA drive). But you should be able to use IC to re-image your original drive. As long as you've downloaded the correct image for your particular model TiVo and the drive is a good one, it should function just fine. (Unfortunately all of the core info such as Season Passes, Channel Guide, cable card pairing, etc. is lost.) Then you should be able to use your newly imaged original hard drive to upgrade to a larger drive with winMFS. Once completed you'll basically have a new TiVo so you'll need to contact your cableco to get them to re-pair your cable card(s). Some will do that over the phone, others require a truck roll. The run Guided Setup, etc.

IIRC you had a failing WD My DVR Expander and just decided to join the rest of us by upgrading the internal hard drive to 1TB. If so, skip the part about the eSATA drive (but it might help others that follow if they are so inclined). I believe that you may be able to use IC to image a brand new 1TB drive w/o having to deal with the original, but I've never done that so can't speak about it with any degree of certainty. The steps I outlined above should work, however have a read through the IC instructions for more details.

Did that help or just make your pond a little muddier?


----------



## SC0TLANDF0REVER

richsadams said:


> Ouch! There have been a couple of other posts where the OP's disconnected their eSATA drive w/o properly divorcing it...and the rest as they say is history; non-cooperation from the internal drive. All is not lost. Here is what I would do:
> 
> 1. Use INSTANT CAKE to re-image your original hard drive. (That gets you back to square one.)
> 2. To upgrade to a larger drive, use your original hard drive (after re-imaging it with IC) and winMFS to image your new, larger hard drive. (See Section V, #18b of the first post on this sticky thread.)
> 3. If you want to use an eSATA drive you will need to "marry" it to the new, larger hard drive. (See Section IV, #11 of the first post on this sticky thread.)
> 
> In other words if you didn't properly divorce your eSATA drive from your original drive, you won't be able to use the original drive as an image source (the OS is still looking for your eSATA drive). But you should be able to use IC to re-image your original drive. As long as you've downloaded the correct image for your particular model TiVo and the drive is a good one, it should function just fine. (Unfortunately all of the core info such as Season Passes, Channel Guide, cable card pairing, etc. is lost.) Then you should be able to use your newly imaged original hard drive to upgrade to a larger drive with winMFS. Once completed you'll basically have a new TiVo so you'll need to contact your cableco to get them to re-pair your cable card(s). Some will do that over the phone, others require a truck roll. The run Guided Setup, etc.
> 
> IIRC you had a failing WD My DVR Expander and just decided to join the rest of us by upgrading the internal hard drive to 1TB. If so, skip the part about the eSATA drive (but it might help others that follow if they are so inclined). I believe that you may be able to use IC to image a brand new 1TB drive w/o having to deal with the original, but I've never done that so can't speak about it with any degree of certainty. The steps I outlined above should work, however have a read through the IC instructions for more details.
> 
> *Did that help or just make your pond a little muddier?*


Rich, it's clear to me, thanks! I'll let ya know how it goes. I might need to drag out an old motherboard to get IC to co-operate with the CDROM mounting.


----------



## bkdtv

jlib said:


> Here is the verbatim text of the pop up:
> 
> _You are about to create a partition larger than 1TB.
> It's too large for a stock TiVo to support.
> Do you want to limit it to 1TB?_​It is clear enough in the bright light of day but I carelessly read it as limiting the whole drive to 1TB so I said no, don't limit it. I already had a 1TB drive and wanted the extra GBs I could squeeze out of the excess space.


Thanks, I updated the FAQ as follows:



> *Can I use one of those new 1.5 TB drives? *
> 
> Refer to FAQ #5 above for the maximum capacities allowed for each TiVo model.
> 
> The maximum capacity allowed for the internal TiVo drive is 1.1 TB (1.0 TiB) *plus* the capacity of the original drive. If you were to upgrade with a 1.5TB drive, 1.26TB would be usable in the TivoHD and 1.35TB would be usable in the older TiVo Series3.
> 
> Compatible 1.5TB drives include the Western Digital WD15EVDS (source), Seagate ST31500541AS, and Seagate ST315005N4A1AS (retail version of ST31500541AS).
> 
> Note you can only prepare a >1.1TB drive using WinMFS. You *cannot* prepare a >1.1TB drive using MFSLive or InstantCake.





> *Is there anything special I need to do for drives larger than 1TB?*
> 
> You must use WinMFS to prepare drives larger than 1TB. Older tools such as MFSLive and InstantCake do not support >1TB capacities.
> 
> Under the latest version of WinMFS (v9.3f), the following message is displayed when you attempt to use a drive larger than 1TB:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> You are about to create a partition larger than 1TB.
> It's too large for a stock TiVo to support.
> Do you want to limit it to 1TB?
> 
> You *must* choose 'yes' if you have a TiVo without a hacked PROM chip. This will restrict expansion to 1.1 TB (1.0 TiB) *plus* the capacity of the original drive, as indicated in FAQ #5 above.
> 
> If you do not select *yes* to limit expansion to 1TB, then the TiVo will not work; it will reboot every five minutes.
> 
> _Note specific discussion of PROM mods and hacks is not permitted on TiVo Community._


----------



## jbrady3324

I am trying to monitor how long my tivo has been running without rebooting. Is there a screen or a way to tell how long your Tivo has been on for?


----------



## alyssa

SC0TLANDF0REVER said:


> I saw that there is a 'divorce' option in winMFS, so I tried it. I then went through the rest of the steps and the program crashed on me everytime.


Wow that's a bummer! You've got my sympathies.

I think the mfswin "fix divorce option S3" that might have caused the problems. As far as I can tell that was designed to fix an issue specific to the 8.3 version of the tivo software. But I may be way off base here. 


Rich Adams said:


> Are you sure the supesizing of the internal took? You could pull it and try supersizing again...it won't affect anything else. Just a thought. Still not sure if you can supersize the eSATA drive or not.


You are right, apparently the supersize did not take. I am positive I indicated I wanted to supersize then did the menu supersize on. But apparently it did not 'take' 
Regardless, I'm now at 278 hd hours, much better then 251 hd. Thanks for the suggestion!!

While I had everything apart I decided to run a scan on the external. It did fail a 'long self test' using SeaTools for windows. I'm running a 'long generic test" via my USB so it'll repair bad sectors too. Maybe I'll be able to squeeze a little bit more room out of the drive. Or at least determine if I should divorce it before I get it loaded with a lot of good stuff.

In re-reading the first post it does seem unlikely that it's possible to supersize the external.


----------



## alyssa

jbrady3324 said:


> I am trying to monitor how long my tivo has been running without rebooting. Is there a screen or a way to tell how long your Tivo has been on for?


I activate the clock. If that's gone I know the tivo rebooted. It's not elegant but it is a way of telling if it has or hasn't rebooted. 
I think there is another way- maybe by monitoring network connections?? I'm trying to drudge up 3 year old memory's & not being very helpful.


----------



## jbrady3324

How do you activate the clock?


----------



## alyssa

oh, sorry.
while you're playing back a recorded show press the following sequence;
select, play, select, 9, select

you should see two clocks, one is elapsed time of the recording (I think) the other is the actual time. Both of these will be in the lower right corner.


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## jbrady3324

Thanks Alyssa!


----------



## evanborkow

richsadams said:


> Sounds good. Let us know how things go.


re. wiredzone.com; smooth transaction and a smooth upgrade.


----------



## richsadams

evanborkow said:


> re. wiredzone.com; smooth transaction and a smooth upgrade.


Sweet! :up:


----------



## SC0TLANDF0REVER

I decided after multiple attempts to bring my original TiVo drive back to life to quit messing with it.
I switched out the CDROM drive to an older one, and finally got IC to recognize/mount the drive.
I hooked up the 1TB drive and was able to get the drive working in less than 10 mins.
Finished Guided setup (OTA only ATM) and I'm seeing 131 HD/1244 SD hours in Sys Info. 

Can I use WinMFS to supersize this drive to even more?
I turned off TiVo Suggestions and would like to claim some of the space used for the ads.

Thanks for the support Alyssa and Rich!


----------



## richsadams

SC0TLANDF0REVER said:


> I decided after multiple attempts to bring my original TiVo drive back to life to quit messing with it.
> I switched out the CDROM drive to an older one, and finally got IC to recognize/mount the drive.
> I hooked up the 1TB drive and was able to get the drive working in less than 10 mins.
> Finished Guided setup (OTA only ATM) and I'm seeing 131 HD/1244 SD hours in Sys Info.
> 
> Can I use WinMFS to supersize this drive to even more?
> I turned off TiVo Suggestions and would like to claim some of the space used for the ads.
> 
> Thanks for the support Alyssa and Rich!


I can't say for sure if you can use winMFS to supersize your new 1TB drive if you used IC to image it. I don't see any reason you couldn't, but no guarantees of course. Supersize doesn't affect anything else so you could give it a try. Worst case is that you'd have to re-image it again, but I don't think that will be needed.

Glad to hear that it's working again though...and that you can image a brand new 1TB drive with IC and not have to mess around with the original.

Let us know what happens. :up:


----------



## jlib

jlib said:


> Dssturbo1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes, i used a Seagate 1.5Tb drive in my S3. It only uses 1.35Tb of the space with the stock S3....The 1.35Tb usable space gives me 213 HD hours with the one internal drive, it's quiet and has worked just fine so far...
> 
> 
> 
> Dssturbo, that is something I want to do. I am wondering if you started from an already upgraded drive when you moved to 1.5(1.35)TB? I have 1TB now and need a few more hours but I want to keep all current recordings. Did you just copy and then add the extra space from an upgraded drive or did you start with the original drive? I am not sure what I am worried about but I seem to vaguely remember there being some sort of limit to how many times a drive can be expanded. Is that notion obsolete now?
Click to expand...

Well, let me answer my own question since this is not common knowledge: No, you can't upgrade twice (if you used MFSLive initially).

Another reason to get the very largest drive possible from the beginning.


----------



## SC0TLANDF0REVER

richsadams said:


> I can't say for sure if you can use winMFS to supersize your new 1TB drive if you used IC to image it. I don't see any reason you couldn't, but no guarantees of course. Supersize doesn't affect anything else so you could give it a try. Worst case is that you'd have to re-image it again, but I don't think that will be needed.
> 
> Glad to hear that it's working again though...and that you can image a brand new 1TB drive with IC and not have to mess around with the original.
> 
> Let us know what happens. :up:


Rich,

I hooked up the 1TB drive up and hit 'supersize' - success!!!
I now have 157 HD/1367SD hours of recording space


----------



## alyssa

nice!!
welcome to the 157 club


----------



## richsadams

SC0TLANDF0REVER said:


> Rich,
> 
> I hooked up the 1TB drive up and hit 'supersize' - success!!!
> I now have 157 HD/1367SD hours of recording space


Very cool! :up: The last step is the secret handshake. 

Congratulations and enjoy!


----------



## davidmcd

After reading everything here (yes, all 122 pages) several times, I upgraded my HD to a 1500 gig Seagate internal drive. Thanks to everyone for all of the helpful posts - reading some of the problems faced by others helped me avoid the same!

I was about to do the same to my 2nd HD when it froze and then reset on its own this morning. It is about 9 months old - would it be worthwhile to wait and see if this problems continues or worsens? It has an external WD and wireless adapter connected. I set the clock to see if it resets while I am not watching...how long should I wait before proceeding with the HD upgrade (I am worried about warranty issues)? Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

davidmcd said:


> After reading everything here (yes, all 122 pages) several times, I upgraded my HD to a 1500 gig Seagate internal drive. Thanks to everyone for all of the helpful posts - reading some of the problems faced by others helped me avoid the same!
> 
> I was about to do the same to my 2nd HD when it froze and then reset on its own this morning. It is about 9 months old - would it be worthwhile to wait and see if this problems continues or worsens? It has an external WD and wireless adapter connected. I set the timer to see if it resets while I am not watching...how long should I wait before proceeding with the HD upgrade (I am worried about warranty issues)? Thanks!


Congrats and welcome to club! I'd go ahead and upgrade your second TiVo now. Rebooting can be caused by a number of issues. It could have simply been an electrical interruption (be sure to have your TiVo's on a UPS). Folks with eSATA drives are particularly vulnerable (loose or bad SATA cables, failing drives, enclosures, etc.).

If you've read through this entire thread (what a trooper!) you've probably noticed that the highest failure component in TiVo is the hard drive...by far. So if your internal drive is going you have a couple of choices. You can upgrade now and put the original on the shelf as a backup or see if TiVo will exchange it ($49) before the one-year warranty is up. Quite honestly if this is the first time something has happened, odds are everything is okay, and again, I'd just upgrade now.

Worst case, if you upgrade and it turns out to be something else, you can always slip the original hard drive back in and ask for an exchange (not mentioning the upgrade to the CSR of course). Although TiVo knows when you've upgraded by their logs, only a couple of folks in the past few years have been denied an exchange as long as everything is put back to normal and they don't find left over PB&J crumbs inside. 

Enjoy your "new" TiVo(s)!


----------



## davidmcd

That's what I was thinking - plus I might as well do the second upgrade while everything is still fresh in my mind! Thanks!


----------



## davidmcd

Well, swapping the HD in the second unit went much more quickly - under 20 minutes from the time I unhooked the Tivo until it was hooked up again. Now I have 198HD hours and 1,733SD hours on this unit as well.

I have noticed there is a slightly longer lag between the time a press a button (i.e., the Tivo button) and when the next screen appears (about 3 seconds of black screen). Did I mess up in my haste or is that a by-product of a larger drive?


----------



## bkdtv

davidmcd said:


> I have noticed there is a slightly longer lag between the time a press a button (i.e., the Tivo button) and when the next screen appears (about 3 seconds of black screen). Did I mess up in my haste or is that a by-product of a larger drive?


Under Settings -> Video -> Video Output Format, make sure your TiVo is set to fixed 1080i or fixed 720p to eliminate resolution changing delays.

When you do a backup and restore, all the guide data must be re-downloaded and indexed. This indexing is done in the background and it slows responsiveness. After ~48 hours, your TiVo should be back to normal.


----------



## davidmcd

bkdtv said:


> Under Settings -> Video -> Video Output Format, make sure your TiVo is set to fixed 1080i or fixed 720p to eliminate resolution changing delays.


You hit the proverbial nail on the head. When I was hooking it up I pressed the output format button on the front. When I just pressed it to 1080i Fixed, delay is gone!

Thanks again for all the help everyone here has provided!!


----------



## keenanSR

bkdtv said:


> When you do a backup and restore, all the guide data must be re-downloaded and indexed. This indexing is done in the background and it slows responsiveness. After ~48 hours, your TiVo should be back to normal.


I know it's the wrong thread, but on this subject of remote responsiveness, should a TiVo HD respond to remote commands as quickly as the Series 3 does? Both machines have had internal drive upgrades and plenty of time for any housekeeping(3weeks). I can't seem to get the HD to respond as quickly as the S3 - tried all the right/recommended settings for the Harmony remote.


----------



## richsadams

keenanSR said:


> I know it's the wrong thread, but on this subject of remote responsiveness, should a TiVo HD respond to remote commands as quickly as the Series 3 does? Both machines have had internal drive upgrades and plenty of time for any housekeeping(3weeks). I can't seem to get the HD to respond as quickly as the S3 - tried all the right/recommended settings for the Harmony remote.


I just tried various commands with our Series3 and TiVo HD (both upgraded) and both seem to respond about the same. Response really depends on what I'm asking it to do. Normal commands like moving through the Now Playing list, etc. is quick. Anything that requires network communications is slower of course. How much lag time are you experiencing?


----------



## keenanSR

richsadams said:


> I just tried various commands with our Series3 and TiVo HD (both upgraded) and both seem to respond about the same. Response really depends on what I'm asking it to do. Normal commands like moving through the Now Playing list, etc. is quick. Anything that requires network communications is slower of course. How much lag time are you experiencing?


It's hard to put a number to, I guess the best way to explain it is that when using the skip(30sec) ahead function on the S3 it's practically instantaneous whereas with the HD there a perceptible lag, I hit it 3 times on the S3 and I'm there, I hit 3 times on the HD and I have to wait a very small amount, probably not more than a sec. The problem is when moving from the S3 to the HD and back you have to adjust how you use the remote to the machine. I had a lot of trouble setting up the Harmony for use on the HD, many of the commands would not take, timing/delays were off... with the S3, after an initial trial and error period, it works literally as fast as the TiVo peanut remote and I haven't had any problems with it in 3 years.

I realize they are 2 different machines, so to expect identical behavior may be a lot to ask, but based on your comments it seems as if it is a possibility. It's just somewhat annoying to have a "cadence" you use on one machine and not be able to use that same cadence on the other. Put another way, I know I'm on a different machine when using the HD without even looking at the remote, the response to the commands tells me I'm on the HD.

I'm thinking of contacting Harmony to see if my S3 setup can be cloned to the HD, but the remote address thing I'm a bit unsure of as it would need to be changed from the S3 commands. S3 is on 1 and the HD is on 2.

Is there a section here that discusses setup of Harmony remotes with TiVos? Maybe there's something I've overlooked.

I apologize for the off topic discussion, I saw *davidmcd's* comments about remote response and though I'd take shot.


----------



## richsadams

keenanSR said:


> It's hard to put a number to, I guess the best way to explain it is that when using the skip(30sec) ahead function on the S3 it's practically instantaneous whereas with the HD there a perceptible lag, I hit it 3 times on the S3 and I'm there, I hit 3 times on the HD and I have to wait a very small amount, probably not more than a sec.


My FF, etc. is about the same on both machines, but it may be a little apples and oranges. I use a Harmony with the Series3 and an HD LCD TV. I'm using the standard peanut remote with The TiVo HD which is currently connected to an SD TV. So that might have an impact, not sure.

I do think there's a Harmony remote thread around here somewhere. A search should turn up some info.


----------



## keenanSR

richsadams said:


> My FF, etc. is about the same on both machines, but it may be a little apples and oranges. I use a Harmony with the Series3 and an HD LCD TV. I'm using the standard peanut remote with The TiVo HD which is currently connected to an SD TV. So that might have an impact, not sure.
> 
> I do think there's a Harmony remote thread around here somewhere. A search should turn up some info.


Yes, I searched earlier and it pretty much returned everything I already know, maybe I'll dig a little deeper on the Harmony site. It's definitely not a major issue at all, just a bit of an annoyance, especially if they are if fact, supposed to work the same, which so far I'm not even sure of that.


----------



## DaveHigh

Well, after 18 months my external Expander croaked. It was a 500GB one. Question is - can I buy a WD10EVVS (Western Digital 1TB) that was recommended at the very beginning of this thread and replace the 500GB from the Expander with the new drive? I.e. open the "book" looking case, pull out the existing drive and put in this new one? The warranty on the Expander was only a year so it is out of warranty, but I can buy this drive for $90.00 whereas a 1TB Expander is considerably more. 

Thanks very much. 

dave


----------



## richsadams

DaveHigh said:


> Well, after 18 months my external Expander croaked. It was a 500GB one. Question is - can I buy a WD10EVVS (Western Digital 1TB) that was recommended at the very beginning of this thread and replace the 500GB from the Expander with the new drive? I.e. open the "book" looking case, pull out the existing drive and put in this new one? The warranty on the Expander was only a year so it is out of warranty, but I can buy this drive for $90.00 whereas a 1TB Expander is considerably more.
> 
> Thanks very much.
> 
> dave


Sorry to hear about your Expander going south. There are a couple of things to know and consider. The first thing to understand is that recordings are striped across both the internal and external hard drive. Secondly TiVo recognizes hard drives by the exact model number.

That said, did you properly divorce your Expander yet? If not, you may be able to save your recordings. Based on a number of posts the WD My DVR Expander enclosures are more likely to fail than the actual hard drive inside. Some folks have successfully removed the hard drive from the WD enclosure and placed them into a new one such as the recommended Antec MX-1.

If you've already disconnected and divorced your eSATA drive you may still be able to use the hard drive in another enclosure. You can test the hard drive by connecting it directly to a computer and running WD's Lifeguard diagnostic program. If it passes an extended read/write/read test it's a good candidate to be re-used.

Otherwise, again, based on numerous posts, I would not recommend re-using the WD My DVR Expander enclosure...too many have failed. Plus IIRC several people have said that removing the drive damaged the enclosure beyond use.

If you have a TiVo HD you could purchase a new 1TB WD My DVR Expander or you could consider upgrading the internal hard drive (using the WD10EVVS). All the info you need is in the first post.

If you have a TiVo Series3 you could consider using one of the other recommended eSATA drives such as the Fantom 1TB ($92 AR w/free shipping)...but that will only work via plug and play with a Series3, not a TiVo HD.

Hope that helps!


----------



## dianebrat

Have I messed up? 
I just bought a Seagate 1.5TB 5400LP drive knowing that I can use 1.3TB of it in my TivoHD, however I'm concerned that something has gone awry in the full disk copy process.

I know the 750GB drive was full, but using WinMFS I'm 7 hours in, and it still is sitting at around 130 Hours as an ETA and nothing has moved in 4 hours. I know there are plenty of places where the interface stops responding and I should just wait it out, and I wanted to check with those with more experience on this.

Usually I just do a backup and then restore on to the new drive, but in this case I really wanted to keep the recordings.

Any thoughts? should I give it 24 hours?

Diane


----------



## bkdtv

dianebrat said:


> Have I messed up?
> I just bought a Seagate 1.5TB 5400LP drive knowing that I can use 1.3TB of it in my TivoHD, however I'm concerned that something has gone awry in the full disk copy process.
> 
> I know the 750GB drive was full, but using WinMFS I'm 7 hours in, and it still is sitting at around 130 Hours as an ETA and nothing has moved in 4 hours. I know there are plenty of places where the interface stops responding and I should just wait it out, and I wanted to check with those with more experience on this.
> 
> Usually I just do a backup and then restore on to the new drive, but in this case I really wanted to keep the recordings.
> 
> Any thoughts? should I give it 24 hours?


Make sure you've disabled any antivirus or security software that scans I/O traffic. If nothing has moved in 4 hours, I'd restart the process.

It is possible that WinMFS just can't backup and restore a 750GB drive to a 1.26TB drive. Support for >1TB did not even exist until the last WinMFS version, and it's possible that the software was not updated to allow expansion of already expanded TiVos past 1TB.

If you are unsuccessful with the backup and restore, I would use original image from your stock 160GB TivoHD. We know for a fact that image can be expanded to 1.26TB.


----------



## dianebrat

bkdtv said:


> Make sure you've disabled any antivirus or security software that scans I/O traffic. If nothing has moved in 4 hours, I'd restart the process.
> 
> It is possible that WinMFS just can't backup and restore a 750GB drive to a 1.26TB drive. Support for >1TB did not even exist until the last WinMFS version, and it's possible that the software was not updated to allow expansion of already expanded TiVos past 1TB.
> 
> If you are unsuccessful with the backup and restore, I would use original image from your stock 160GB TivoHD. We know for a fact that image can be expanded to 1.26TB.


Thanks!
I am down to 28 hours! that's an improvement.
I realized after that it would have made a ton of sense to have deleted the suggestions and recently deleted before starting this project. I really didn't think this one through.

If I do have to bail, I have no issues putting the 750GB back in, offloading some of the more desirable items back to the PC, then starting fresh with the 160GB to get up to 1.26TB, this is my secondary Tivo, I have an S3 with 2x750GB that's my primary since it has CableCARDs and the TivoHD does not.

Diane


----------



## richsadams

dianebrat said:


> Thanks!
> I am down to 28 hours! that's an improvement.


Diane! Just wanted to say "hello"! Hadn't seen your name pop up for quite a while. It's good to know you're still pushing the TiVo envelope. Hope all is well.

BTW, bkdtv's advice is right on as aways. Some folks have opened task manager right before upgrading so they can watch their PC's activity. winMFS can appear to be stalled sometimes when in fact it's chugging away. With task manager open you can see if it's actually running or not. You could try that if you have to start over.

Anyway, happy upgrading and enjoy!


----------



## jlib

dianebrat said:


> Have I messed up?
> I just bought a Seagate 1.5TB 5400LP drive knowing that I can use 1.3TB of it in my TivoHD, however I'm concerned that something has gone awry in the full disk copy process...


Are you connecting the 2 drives directly to the computer SATA ports or are you using USB->SATA adapters?  Last week I copied a completely full 1GB drive directly to the same Seagate drive you have (5900 RPM, by the way) via WinMFS and it took a little over 6 hours for the copy process on a 4 or 5 year old low-end computer. So, for your copy procedure to take appreciably longer than that if directly connected is cause for alarm.

There have been multiple reports of success going to the big Seagate from the stock drives but none from a previously upgraded one. If you used WinMFS originally it may work, you will have to let us know. That would be a valuable data point. If you used the mfstools on the MSFLive CD originally it will not work correctly in the end and the better procedure is to reinstall the 750GB drive, copy off the portable recordings, and then have a weekend viewing marathon to exhaust the remainder. Then use the stock original drive as source to the Seagate.


----------



## cuyahoga

richsadams said:


> If you do make the switch I know I and others would appreciate it if you'd post your results. TIA! :up:


So, I swapped the WD drive into the Antec MX-1. The transfer went well. No booting problems. However, it didn't fix my problem. I think the freezing/blocking was actually a bit worse post-reinstall.

Guess the hard drive in the WD enclosure was bad after all.

So, I called the lawyers and divorced the Series 3 and the external drive. Things are better now.

And hey, that Antec enclosure is quite nice.

I might grab another drive and pop it into the enclosure since this is a Series 3 and not a TiVo HD.


----------



## dianebrat

jlib said:


> Are you connecting the 2 drives directly to the computer SATA ports or are you using USB->SATA adapters?  Last week I copied a completely full 1GB drive directly to the same Seagate drive you have (5900 RPM, by the way) via WinMFS and it took a little over 6 hours for the copy process on a 4 or 5 year old low-end computer. So, for your copy procedure to take appreciably longer than that if directly connected is cause for alarm.
> 
> There have been multiple reports of success going to the big Seagate from the stock drives but none from a previously upgraded one. If you used WinMFS originally it may work, you will have to let us know. That would be a valuable data point. If you used the mfstools on the MSFLive CD originally it will not work correctly in the end and the better procedure is to reinstall the 750GB drive, copy off the portable recordings, and then have a weekend viewing marathon to exhaust the remainder. Then use the stock original drive as source to the Seagate.


Both ports are SATA, with the OS on the machine running off PATA, one of the best features of the Dell Optiplex GX270's we use for fleet machines, plenty of interfaces.
I'm pretty sure I used WinMFS to go from the tiny 160GB to the 750GB, but I did it with a truncated backup, not with all my recordings.
It's not the end of the world if I have to start over on this drive since it's my secondary Tivo. I just have to get a few things off it first.

Very VERY interesting data point, after 5 hours, the older Seagate 750GB drive was a bit toasty, but the new 5400RPM LP drive was cool to the touch.

Diane


----------



## richsadams

cuyahoga said:


> So, I swapped the WD drive into the Antec MX-1. The transfer went well. No booting problems. However, it didn't fix my problem. I think the freezing/blocking was actually a bit worse post-reinstall.
> 
> Guess the hard drive in the WD enclosure was bad after all.
> 
> So, I called the lawyers and divorced the Series 3 and the external drive. Things are better now.
> 
> And hey, that Antec enclosure is quite nice.
> 
> I might grab another drive and pop it into the enclosure since this is a Series 3 and not a TiVo HD.


Sorry to hear that it didn't work out. It does sound like the hard drive inside the WD My DVR Expander died.

You shouldn't have any problems dropping a new 1TB drive in the MX-1 and connecting it to your Series3. You'll get an "Unsupported drive" screen, but you'll be allowed to continue.

BTW, ProVantage has the recommended WD10EVVS for about $91 right now...a pretty decent price.


----------



## alyssa

dianebrat said:


> Very VERY interesting data point, after 5 hours, the older Seagate 750GB drive was a bit toasty, but the new 5400RPM LP drive was cool to the touch.
> 
> Diane


:up::up:
I was amazed at the temp difference between a old Seagate & a WD10EVVS too.

On a side question; 
Has anyone noted difficulties with MyBook drives/enclosures?


----------



## dianebrat

For those playing at home, yeah, no way this was going to work, the ETA numbers got wonky after 24 hours with a copy.



bkdtv said:


> If you are unsuccessful with the backup and restore, I would use original image from your stock 160GB TivoHD. We know for a fact that image can be expanded to 1.26TB.


Exactly where I'm going, I'm putting the stock 160GB back to get it to upgrade itself to 11.x, no recordings on it, then after that, I'll back it up, and restore it to the new 1.5TB with WinMFS.



jlib said:


> A.
> 
> There have been multiple reports of success going to the big Seagate from the stock drives but none from a previously upgraded one. If you used WinMFS originally it may work, you will have to let us know. That would be a valuable data point. If you used the mfstools on the MSFLive CD originally it will not work correctly in the end and the better procedure is to reinstall the 750GB drive, copy off the portable recordings, and then have a weekend viewing marathon to exhaust the remainder. Then use the stock original drive as source to the Seagate.


I hadn't realized the "can't upgrade 2x" bug was going to get me, I was remembering the old PATA S2s where you could upgrade after upgrade. So get the 160GB up to new software, swap out, put the 750GB in to get what I want off it, and then WinMFS from the 160GB with 11.x to the 1.5TB.
Everyone has been a huge help here, thanks!

Diane (old dog learning new tricks)


----------



## cwerdna

Since I don't think I saw an answer to this in FAQ, if I marry a 1 TB My DVR Expander to my TiVo HD, if the enclosure dies/goes bad but the drive is fine, I should be able to put that drive in another enclosure and be good to go (not lose recordings made after marriage) if I don't divorce the drive, right? If I divorce them, it should still work fine except for the recording loss, right?

I'd use an enclosure on the recommended list.

People have succeeded in doing this on the Tivo HD (without resorting to tools like mfslive), right?

From what I've read here, TiVo HD only seems to look for the exact model and firmware rev of the supported drive and not the enclosure itself, right?

My Tivo HD is only a few weeks old and I don't think I can wait 90 days for the parts and labor portion of the warranty to go w/the too small stock drive and I'm really wary of voiding the warranty this early on. It seems that the My DVR Expander enclosures are real unreliable so I'm semi-ok w/putting the drive in another enclosure if it dies out of warranty.

If so, I'm going to pull the trigger today and place the order. It sorta sucks that I have to pay for a piece of seemingly unreliable hardware to avoid voiding my TiVo warranty.


----------



## richsadams

cwerdna said:


> Since I don't think I saw an answer to this in FAQ, if I marry a 1 TB My DVR Expander to my TiVo HD, if the enclosure dies/goes bad but the drive is fine, I should be able to put that drive in another enclosure and be good to go (not lose recordings made after marriage) if I don't divorce the drive, right? <snip>


TiVo recognizes eSATA drives by the actual hard drive model number.

So I believe the answer to your basic question is yes. Providing you don't divorce the eSATA drive and disconnect and re-connect it properly, you should be able to remove the hard drive from a WD My DVR Expander and place it in another enclosure (one that will work/is recommended such as the Antec MX-1) and life will go on. The caveat would be that AFAIK no one has tried it with a 1TB WD My DVR Expander or with a TiVo HDXL (understood that you have an HD), but there's no reason to think that it wouldn't work.

Keep in mind that the WD My DVR Expanders have a one-year warranty. Removing the hard drive before the year is up would void the warranty of course. What you're proposing makes sense, but I'd just use the original enclosure until it stops working. Then you can make the decision to either get an RMA if it's under warranty or place the hard drive in a new enclosure to see if the problem is actually with the OEM enclosure or the drive itself.


----------



## dianebrat

dianebrat said:


> Exactly where I'm going, I'm putting the stock 160GB back to get it to upgrade itself to 11.x, no recordings on it, then after that, I'll back it up, and restore it to the new 1.5TB with WinMFS.


*sigh* this is not at all as smooth as I was hoping, the 160GB stock unit won't do a successful connect, i get an S02 error on loading data and that's it, even after rebooting.

Since you can't upgrade a drive twice, would a truncated backup of the 750GB restored to the 1.5TB be feasible? I was thinking the Instantcake method too, but I'm not finding that it works on a something in the 1.5TB range.

Any pointers to the right resource to be heading to in this, such as a link to a post in the upgrade forums is welcomed.

Diane


----------



## cwerdna

richsadams said:


> Keep in mind that the WD My DVR Expanders have a one-year warranty. Removing the hard drive before the year is up would void the warranty of course. What you're proposing makes sense, but I'd just use the original enclosure until it stops working. Then you can make the decision to either get an RMA if it's under warranty or place the hard drive in a new enclosure to see if the problem is actually with the OEM enclosure or the drive itself.


Thanks! I plan to RMA the Expander if it craps out under warranty and only get a replacement enclosure once out of warranty.


----------



## dlfl

When I expanded my THD internal to 1 TB recently using WinMFS, everything went smoothly and I've had no indication of a problem.

I did a truncated transfer and although I deleted all my programs from the original 160GB drive beforehand, I neglected to *permanently* delete the deleted programs. Thus with the new drive installed, all the deleted programs showed up (in the deleted folder). I didn't think that was a clean situation so I did some experimenting.

I could recover one of these programs but when I tried to play it, TiVo said something like it had failed to record (forgot the exact wording of the message). (Not that I expected it to play!)

I could then re-delete the program and it went back into the deleted folder.

So I just went through the deleted folder and permanently deleted all these "phantom" programs, which it let me do with no apparent problem.

*Question:* Have I built in some weird problem that will pop up in the future by this screw up? I'm a long way from filling the drive, so there's no way to tell if I've screwed up its total capacity yet. The system info says the normal value for a supersized 1 TB drive (157 HD hrs).


----------



## bkdtv

dlfl said:


> *Question:* Have I built in some weird problem that will pop up in the future by this screw up? I'm a long way from filling the drive, so there's no way to tell if I've screwed up its total capacity yet. The system info says the normal value for a supersized 1 TB drive (157 HD hrs).


No, you did nothing wrong. When you perform a truncated backup, you are always left with NPL entries for the recordings that you did not backup. It's safe to delete these recorded entries and this has no bearing on your capacity.


----------



## eochs

silly question (since I don't feel like digging through 184 pages of this thread), but I assume I can just use 2 external USB hard drive enclosures (instead of usb-sata conversion cables) to hook up my old tivo HD drive and new WD 750GB drive to my computer for the upgrade? Thanks!


----------



## bkdtv

eochs said:


> silly question (since I don't feel like digging through 184 pages of this thread), but I assume I can just use 2 external USB hard drive enclosures (instead of usb-sata conversion cables) to hook up my old tivo HD drive and new WD 750GB drive to my computer for the upgrade? Thanks!


Yes, you can. A USB drive exclosure is no different than a USB->SATA adapter. It's just a USB->SATA adapter inside an enclosure.


----------



## eochs

Figured that, just didn't want to have to buy extra equipment for no reason...


----------



## pgartung

I have a 400GB SATA drive siting around. My TivoHD is still within the one year warranty period so I hesitate to do an internal drive upgrade. Can I put that 400GB drive in an eSata enclosure and have the Tivo recognize it?


----------



## ThAbtO

Only the My Expander drives are Plug-N-Play drives that will work on the Tivo HD/XL without having to open up the Tivo and hook to the Computer to 'prepare'.


----------



## jcthorne

These guys are selling a 2TB single drive upgrade for the TivoHD. They have 100% feedback so what do they know that we dont?

I would love to install a 2TB in my TivoHD but no one here or at mfstools has reported sucess doing so.

http://cgi.ebay.com/TiVo-Drive-Upgr...in_0?hash=item3ca611f3cd&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14


----------



## innocentfreak

The last post on this thread on MFSlive.org discusses it. It has something to do with creating additional partitions.

I believe Spike has said he doesn't have plans to implement it since it would require either a complete re-write and/or wouldn't be backwords compatible.


----------



## richsadams

That's my understanding as well. 2TB's can be done with some additional and complicated hard coding (beyond winMFS and MFSLive capabilities at this time). Looks like the ebay seller has taken the time to do that. IIRC someone here bought one but I can't remember who it was.

In any case $260 was what I paid for a 1TB a couple of years ago (on sale at BB) and it was sooo exciting to have soooo much space!  With the price for 2TB HDD's being what they are (about $210 unless he's buying in bulk...and even then), he's working on a pretty slim margin after whatever he considers labor costs though.


----------



## pgartung

ThAbtO said:


> Only the My Expander drives are Plug-N-Play drives that will work on the Tivo HD/XL without having to open up the Tivo and hook to the Computer to 'prepare'.


OK. Since I have to open the Tivo, I might as well swap in the 400GB drive for the stock drive. I have used winmfs before with Series 2 Tivo's so this will be a no-brainer.


----------



## bkdtv

pgartung said:


> OK. Since I have to open the Tivo, I might as well swap in the 400GB drive for the stock drive. I have used winmfs before with Series 2 Tivo's so this will be a no-brainer.


You realize that you can get a compatible 1TB drive for as little as $80 shipped, correct? [TiVoHD-only WD10EADS, TivoHD/Series3-compatible Hitachi]


----------



## pgartung

bkdtv said:


> You realize that you can get a compatible 1TB drive for as little as $80 shipped, correct? [TiVoHD-only WD10EADS, TivoHD/Series3-compatible Hitachi]


Yes. I am just being cheap.


----------



## richsadams

pgartung said:


> Yes. I am just being cheap.


Honesty! How refreshing.


----------



## haplo888

I'm planning to upgrade my internal drive in an HD with 1 .5gb drive, likely a Seagate, to get the 1.26gb internal limit. I want to leave the option open to later add an external drive and read under the FAQ IV.10 that I can later marry the upgraded internal drive to a new external drive using WinMFS.

When I marry the drives at a later date does it still preserve my recordings?

Thanks


----------



## richsadams

haplo888 said:


> I'm planning to upgrade my internal drive in an HD with 1 .5gb drive, likely a Seagate, to get the 1.26gb internal limit. I want to leave the option open to later add an external drive and read under the FAQ IV.10 that I can later marry the upgraded internal drive to a new external drive using WinMFS.
> 
> When I marry the drives at a later date does it still preserve my recordings?
> 
> Thanks


Yes.


----------



## haplo888

Everything seemed to go smoothly. I'm showing 198 HD hours or 1733 SD hours. Does this sound right for 1.26tb with SuperSize? Is there some other way that I can check if the SuperSize worked?

Thanks,
Haplo888


----------



## lynnalexandra

Haplo's question reminded me of one I keep meaning to ask. In June, I upgraded to 1TB internal hard drive and 1TB external drive. I was able to see that the capacity was increased. I've been recording like crazy and have no idea how much space I have left. Is there a way I can see how much space I used and how much I have left? I don't want to fill it shows of lesser priority if I'm getting close to capacity.

On a slightly off-topic question - I loved using the winmfs program to copy the original hard drive onto the larger 1TB drive. Would that program work if I want to copy the 40GB hard drive in my daughter's pc to a larger (perhaps 200GB) hard drive? I don't have the original disks (like windows xp) bc. I bought it used. I've also set it up in other ways I'd like to preserve. Could I follow the same steps and program to do this? Or is that program specific for copying tivo drives?

last point - about the ebay seller selling 2TB drives for only $259. First - wow - what a great price. If I'd seen that when I did my upgrade, I might have gone for that instead. I did buy from that seller (dvr dude) to upgrade my Tivo 2 hard drive. And the product, instructions and support were excellent. I was very pleased.

Lynn.

Thanks.
Lynn.


----------



## bkdtv

haplo888 said:


> Everything seemed to go smoothly. I'm showing 198 HD hours or 1733 SD hours. Does this sound right for 1.26tb with SuperSize?


Yes.

1.00 TB w/ Supersize = 157 HD hours
1.26 TB w/ Supersize = 157 * 1.26 = 198 HD hours


----------



## bkdtv

lynnalexandra said:


> Haplo's question reminded me of one I keep meaning to ask. In June, I upgraded to 1TB internal hard drive and 1TB external drive. I was able to see that the capacity was increased. I've been recording like crazy and have no idea how much space I have left. Is there a way I can see how much space I used and how much I have left? I don't want to fill it shows of lesser priority if I'm getting close to capacity.


Kmttg will tell you how much capacity you've used.



lynnalexandra said:


> Could I follow the same steps and program to do this? Or is that program specific for copying tivo drives?


WinMFS is specific to TiVo drives.


----------



## lynnalexandra

bkdtv - thanks for the reply. I was afraid the winmfs was just for Tivo's. Such a cool program.

I'm afraid that looking at kmttg - it's way over my head and does more than I need or am able to learn at this time. The thread on it was too technical for me (at least at this early on in my dabbling with Tivo). Isn't there a way - without a multi-tasked software program - to just see how much of the hard drive is full? Short of that, is there one discrete, simple program that would just read available space (or amount of recorded space - either one).

Thanks again.
Lynn.


----------



## dlfl

lynnalexandra said:


> bkdtv - thanks for the reply. I was afraid the winmfs was just for Tivo's. Such a cool program.
> 
> I'm afraid that looking at kmttg - it's way over my head and does more than I need or am able to learn at this time. The thread on it was too technical for me (at least at this early on in my dabbling with Tivo). Isn't there a way - without a multi-tasked software program - to just see how much of the hard drive is full? Short of that, is there one discrete, simple program that would just read available space (or amount of recorded space - either one).
> 
> Thanks again.
> Lynn.


Try ***TiVoPlaylist***. Its primary function is TiVo-to-Go downloads, but it keeps track of the total disk usage on the NPL. Free, easy to install, and very little setup effort.


----------



## richsadams

lynnalexandra said:


> I'm afraid that looking at kmttg - it's way over my head and does more than I need or am able to learn at this time. The thread on it was too technical for me (at least at this early on in my dabbling with Tivo). Isn't there a way - without a multi-tasked software program - to just see how much of the hard drive is full? Short of that, is there one discrete, simple program that would just read available space (or amount of recorded space - either one).
> 
> Thanks again.
> Lynn.


To answer your questions yes there are programs that will tell you how much space is used on your TiVo hard drive. The problem is that everything is an estimation. No HD (or SD) program is ever exactly the same with respect to how much data is delivered. One hour of HD is anywhere from 4GB to 6.5GB and a two-hour recording could be around 8GB or 10GB. It all depends on the original broadcast and how much or how little the recording is compressed during delivery. So even though you may know how much space has been used, there is never an exact way to predict how much "recording space" is left. Does that make sense?

One way to make a guess at how much space you have left is to view your Recently Deleted folder. If it has a lot of files you have plenty of room left. If there are only a few, space is becoming a premium (or you've deleted a lot of very old shows)...not very scientific.

TiVoPlaylist is a good option for PC's. Their hard drive graph is useful. :up:

KMTTG (works w/PC's and Mac's) is really not complicated at all. The installation page only lists a few steps. Simply download and install it. During the brief installation process it will ask to download some tools. Do that and then the first time you launch kmttg you'll need to enter your TiVo 10 digit Media Access Key (MAK) which is available from your TiVo account on line or directly from your TiVo (Messages and Settings > Account and System Information > Media Access Key). After entering the MAK click on the "Refresh" button and give it a short time to list all of your recordings. It will give you a text readout of how many recordings you have and how much space is used.

If you have a Mac the best program is iTiVo. Among other features it will give you a hard drive use chart.


----------



## dlfl

If you use TiVoPlaylist, there is some pertinent discussion in the last few posts to ***this thread***.

EDIT: And perhaps even more pertinent: ***here***.


----------



## caddyroger

I want to install a new 1TB Seagate hard drive in a Tivo s3. The ones that is listed on the first page are from 2007. Are they any newer models that will work on a s3


----------



## moxie1617

caddyroger said:


> I want to install a new 1TB Seagate hard drive in a Tivo s3. The ones that is listed on the first page are from 2007. Are they any newer models that will work on a s3


It is kept current by bkdtv and the last update was 9/29/2009.


----------



## caddyroger

moxie1617 said:


> It is kept current by bkdtv and the last update was 9/29/2009.


Thanks I should learn to look better. I just got from a work out which I hate to do but I guess when you are a diabetic with minor heart condition and over weight I have to go.


----------



## lynnalexandra

DLFL - thanks. the Tivo Playlist worked great. I had filled up the 2TB of space - Yikes. I'm glad to have found that out before it started erasing programs I wanted to keep. (Turns out I need to be more careful in selecting which channel to record my season passes. I had it recording from the HD channels and it doesn't take that long to fill up 190 hours - with a bunch of movies thrown in. From now on, I'll try to reserve HD only for those things where high definition matters.)

Rich - I understood that explanation - thank you. And maybe when I get ready for more functionality I will try the kmttg program (if you say it's not that comlicated, I believe you - you were a tremendous help when I upgraded my drives in June.)

Thanks.
Lynn.


----------



## lynnalexandra

Oops. I posted too soon. I do have a problem. I just went to delete unnecessary recordings and checked Tivo Playlist to see the freed up space. It's recording 695 GB used,and 199GB free space. What about the external 1TB drive I married to this Tivo's internal drive. I'm supposed to have 2TB of space. When I check my Tivo settings, it shows 2TB capacity (320 hr.s hd, 2777 hours of sd capacity).

Is it possible that I have the 2TB of space, but Tivo playlist is only recognizing the internal drive? When I checked yesterday through my programs and Tivo playlist said it was full (no free space), I hadn't paid attention to how much space it said was used (it probably mentioned more like 900GB - bc. I didn't delete over 1TB or programming - just a small portion - 20&#37; sounds about right). I also noticed that when I went to delete unwanted programs, it didn't appear as though anything had been deleted to make new space - suggesting that it wasn't completely full - it had shows from when I first got the Tivo that were set to be deleted if space was needed).

Any ideas about how I can get the Tivo playlist to recognize the full 2TB of space?

Might as well also ask if there's a way for it to also show my other Tivo's space - a Tivo 2 with 500 GB (this is far less important to me though than accurately reading the space on my Tivo HD).

Thanks.
Lynn.


----------



## lew

Tivo playlist doesn't know the size of your hard drive(s). Size of your hard drives is a user inputed field. Some people leave that field at zero. Tivo playlist will increase that number as the number of recordings on your unit increase. That number will become accurate when 100% of your drive is filled with recordings (recently deleted folder is zero).



lynnalexandra said:


> Oops. I posted too soon. I do have a problem. I just went to delete unnecessary recordings and checked Tivo Playlist to see the freed up space. It's recording 695 GB used,and 199GB free space. What about the external 1TB drive I married to this Tivo's internal drive. I'm supposed to have 2TB of space. When I check my Tivo settings, it shows 2TB capacity (320 hr.s hd, 2777 hours of sd capacity).
> 
> Is it possible that I have the 2TB of space, but Tivo playlist is only recognizing the internal drive? When I checked yesterday through my programs and Tivo playlist said it was full (no free space), I hadn't paid attention to how much space it said was used (it probably mentioned more like 900GB - bc. I didn't delete over 1TB or programming - just a small portion - 20% sounds about right). I also noticed that when I went to delete unwanted programs, it didn't appear as though anything had been deleted to make new space - suggesting that it wasn't completely full - it had shows from when I first got the Tivo that were set to be deleted if space was needed).
> 
> Any ideas about how I can get the Tivo playlist to recognize the full 2TB of space?
> 
> Might as well also ask if there's a way for it to also show my other Tivo's space - a Tivo 2 with 500 GB (this is far less important to me though than accurately reading the space on my Tivo HD).
> 
> Thanks.
> Lynn.


----------



## hearncl

I previously did a 750GB internal drive upgrade on my TiVoHD using an upgrade drive from WeaKnees. The TiVo recently began showing signs of a bad drive (freezing requiring a reboot), so I'm thinking of another upgrade to 1 TB before the present drive fails completely. This time I thought I'd purchase a bare 1 TB drive and use WinMFS. My computer is a Mac Pro with four internal drive bays, and I have Windows XP installed on a Boot Camp partition. It will be no problem to use two of the bays for the present and replacement drives.

I've read bkdtv's excellent drive upgrade instructions in this thread, and plan to use the instructions under the TiVoHD section for "Replace the built-in 160GB drive with a 1.0 TB model (157 HD hours)". I would probably use the option to copy both the settings and recordings to the new drive. My question (probably a stupid one) is--does it make any difference that the present internal drive is 750 GB and not the 160 GB drive that was originally in the TiVoHD?


----------



## drey

hearncl said:


> I previously did a 750GB internal drive upgrade on my TiVoHD using an upgrade drive from WeaKnees. The TiVo recently began showing signs of a bad drive (freezing requiring a reboot), so I'm thinking of another upgrade to 1 TB before the present drive fails completely. This time I thought I'd purchase a bare 1 TB drive and use WinMFS. My computer is a Mac Pro with four internal drive bays, and I have Windows XP installed on a Boot Camp partition. It will be no problem to use two of the bays for the present and replacement drives.
> 
> I've read bkdtv's excellent drive upgrade instructions in this thread, and plan to use the instructions under the TiVoHD section for "Replace the built-in 160GB drive with a 1.0 TB model (157 HD hours)". I would probably use the option to copy both the settings and recordings to the new drive. My question (probably a stupid one) is--does it make any difference that the present internal drive is 750 GB and not the 160 GB drive that was originally in the TiVoHD?


No, it doesnt' make a difference whether you have 160GB or 750GB for the original drive. The process for the upgrade is identical in both cases and will work just as well.


----------



## MPSAN

The other thing I like about TiVoPlaylist is that it sees programs that I copy to another TiVo. The TiVo.com site does not see these. ie: if I copy a show from tivo1 to tivo2 only tivo1 shows the program online on tivo.com.

I told TiVo Playlist that I had a 1000GB drive, but it is showing too much recording time left. I may lower it.


----------



## lynnalexandra

Lew - Ah. That makes sense. That's how the playlist could have registered close to 900 gb of programming and said there was no free space (but nothing had been deleted). As long as I know to just pay attention to how much space has recordings, from now on I'll ignore if it tells me there's no free space. I'll just subtract from the 1.8 TB size that I know I have.

This TivoPlaylist is great. Thanks.
Lynn.


----------



## CraigK

I have a WD 1TB drive on the way to upgrade my TiVo HD from 160 GB and have been reading this thread and threads on the MFSLive.org forum in preparation.

I'm going to do the "TiVo Internal Upgrade: Preserve Settings Only" on my TiVo HD since it only has a few recorded programs on it now that I can offload to my PC. My TiVo's upgrade should go relatively quickly.

If this trial run goes well I'll be doing an upgrade to my wife's TiVo HD to 1TB. I'm thinking about doing a "TiVo Internal Upgrade : Preserve Settings and Recordings" on hers because it typically has more unwatched recordings on it. This will take longer since I'll be copying the recordings also.

I'll be using SATA->USB adapters and was wondering if what is in the Recently Deleted folder will make any difference on how long Mfscopy takes to run? Will really deleting the deleted shows in the folder make the copy take less time or is the whole 160GB copied from the old drive no matter what's on there (deleted or otherwise)?

Thanks for any help.


----------



## bkdtv

CraigK said:


> I'll be using SATA->USB adapters and was wondering if what is in the Recently Deleted folder will make any difference on how long Mfscopy takes to run? Will really deleting the deleted shows in the folder make the copy take less time or is the whole 160GB copied from the old drive no matter what's on there (deleted or otherwise)?


With "TiVo Internal Upgrade : Preserve Settings and Recordings" method, *everything* is backed up from your TiVo, including the recordings in the Recently Deleted folder.

The "TiVo Internal Upgrade: Preserve Settings Only" method does not backup anything in the Recently Deleted folder.


----------



## moxie1617

peretparker said:


> I read all points .After this


Make sure you read the 1st post also. It is current and incorporates all the successes and problems encountered by contributors to this thread.

bkdtv has maintained the 1st post and it contains a ton of useful info.


----------



## dlfl

CraigK said:


> ........
> I'll be using SATA->USB adapters and was wondering if what is in the Recently Deleted folder will make any difference on how long Mfscopy takes to run? Will really deleting the deleted shows in the folder make the copy take less time or is the whole 160GB copied from the old drive no matter what's on there (deleted or otherwise)?
> ...........


USB-SATA adapters are considerably slower than a SATA interface. Thus I believe it would be well worth your time to "Permanently Delete" all the recordings in the Deleted folder.


----------



## richsadams

moxie1617 said:


> Make sure you read the 1st post also. It is current and incorporates all the successes and problems encountered by contributors to this thread.
> 
> bkdtv has maintained the 1st post and it contains a ton of useful info.


I think that post was spam.


----------



## moxie1617

richsadams said:


> I think that post was spam.


They got me.


----------



## richsadams

moxie1617 said:


> They got me.


D'oh!  And wow...the moderators already pulled it! _Gooooo_ moderators! :up:


----------



## hearncl

I'm trying to anticipate any problems that might come up using WinMFS to copy my TiVoHD drive settings and recordings to a blank WD10EVVS drive. I will be using a Mac Pro with WinXP installed on a Boot Camp partition. I plan to use two of the Mac Pro's four internal SATA drive bays for the original TiVo drive and the new drive.

My question is, in the two WinMFS "Select Drive" steps (first for backing up the original TiVo drive, and second for specifying the drive to copy to) is it going to be obvious which drive is which? In other words, will WinMFS know which drive is the original and which is the new blank drive?


----------



## richsadams

hearncl said:


> My question is, in the two WinMFS "Select Drive" steps (first for backing up the original TiVo drive, and second for specifying the drive to copy to) is it going to be obvious which drive is which? In other words, will WinMFS know which drive is the original and which is the new blank drive?


Yes, the drive model is listed and if it is formatted as a "TiVo" drive or not. Your new drive will not be listed as a "TiVo" drive.

That said, I've always used a PC I built to do my upgrades. I'll be interested to hear how things go using your Mac. Since I have an iMac, MacBook and Mini I couldn't do what you're doing so I'd have to use an adapter to connect the HDD's, but it'll be good to know that it works. (Although I'll probably never give up my "creation" for sentimental reasons  )

TIA for posting!


----------



## eaayoung

My DVR expansion drive finally bit the dust today. Finally had to divorce it. I got around 2 1/2 years out of the drive, so I consider myself lucky. When the TIVO rebooted, I only had 5 suggestions still on the S3's drive. Watched most of my favorites since I kinda expected this to happen. 

Next step is install a bigger drive in my S3.


----------



## DaveL1981

So I'm from Australia, and it turns out the WD15EVDS is impossible to buy - and Provantage won't ship it to Aus.

I was considering a Seagate ST31500541AS - however there have been some comments about the noise. The specs claim a maximum of 28dB compared to 26 dB for the WD.

Has anyone got any experience with this drive and any solid feedback on the noise?

I would have thought that anything under 30 dB would be near enough to silent anyway.

If all else fails - I suppose I'll just go for a WD10EVDS.


----------



## pyee

Sigh. I must be doing something wrong. But what? 

I have a Series 3 and bought a WD10EVVS to upgrade it. Snagged WinMFS 9.3f and connected both drives to my Windows XP SP2 PC (a Dell 530) using SATA cables. Made a backup of the original drive, as recommended, just in case. I followed the steps in the first post (with preservation of recordings option). That seemed to go all right as the operation completed (an hour later) and WinMFS now recognized the second drive as a Tivo drive. For obvious reasons, I elected to expand the space on the drive. Took the new WD, put it into the TiVo and powered it up. Got the "Welcome! Powering Up" screen. Which never went away. 

I'm now at my wits end. I've tried: 

Copying the backup to new drive without preserving the recordings
Boot repair, both options 1 and 2 (didn't expect that to work, but it was quick to try)
Another try at copying the original drive with recordings (and another hour waiting)

Still nothing. The drive appears to work for purposes of writing to it. I can hear it spin up in the Series 3 and make seeking noises for a few seconds, but that's it. When I put the original drive back into my TiVo, the things boots up fine, so I know the system hardware is still functional.

Would some kind soul give me some other ideas I can try out? I've been crawling my way through the posts in this thread but have not yet come across one that describes my situation.

Thanks in advance.

-Peter


----------



## richsadams

pyee said:


> Sigh. I must be doing something wrong. But what?
> 
> I have a Series 3 and bought a WD10EVVS to upgrade it. Snagged WinMFS 9.3f and connected both drives to my Windows XP SP2 PC (a Dell 530) using SATA cables. Made a backup of the original drive, as recommended, just in case. I followed the steps in the first post (with preservation of recordings option). That seemed to go all right as the operation completed (an hour later) and WinMFS now recognized the second drive as a Tivo drive. For obvious reasons, I elected to expand the space on the drive. Took the new WD, put it into the TiVo and powered it up. Got the "Welcome! Powering Up" screen. Which never went away.


Hi Peter. I don't think I qualify as a kind soul, but I do feel your pain. Hmmm...it does sound like you've done your homework. When TiVo cannot get past the Welcome! Powering up screen it means that the motherboard cannot communicate with the hard drive.

I have seen this exact complaint before and this may seem insulting but it's not meant to be...are you sure you've actually fully connected TiVo's hard drive SATA cable to your new drive when installing it? A loose connection can cause what you're seeing. You did? Okay then.

You didn't mention trying to do a basic upgrade (w/o preserving recordings) using the original hard drive (not the backup). It's possible that some of the info is corrupted in your saved image (which I'd delete and re-save again while you're at it). That would be Section V, #18a in the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ.

Also if you have any virus protection (at all) did you fully disable it during the upgrade process?

If that doesn't do it I wouldn't give up, but now and then these kinds of things happen...not only to TiVo but "normal" computers as well. For whatever reason(s) the drive just doesn't want to play nice. You may have to claim that it doesn't work (bad sectors or whatever) and get an RMA to get a replacement.

If you're following all of the steps properly I can't think of much else you can do. Perhaps I missed something and someone else will chime in.

Best of luck and let us know how you get on.


----------



## davidmcd

DaveL1981 said:


> So I'm from Australia, and it turns out the WD15EVDS is impossible to buy - and Provantage won't ship it to Aus.
> 
> I was considering a Seagate ST31500541AS - however there have been some comments about the noise. The specs claim a maximum of 28dB compared to 26 dB for the WD.
> 
> Has anyone got any experience with this drive and any solid feedback on the noise?
> 
> I would have thought that anything under 30 dB would be near enough to silent anyway.
> 
> If all else fails - I suppose I'll just go for a WD10EVDS.


I have the Seagete drive in 2 Tivos. It is definitely noisier then the stock HD. While I do not hear it at all in the family room I do hear it in the bedroom. If I were to do it again I would use it for non-sleeping rooms. Hope that helps.


----------



## davidmcd

Help!

I upgraded 2 Tivos to the 1500 gig Seagate several weeks ago. I thought all went smoothly. One works fine. The other one lets me watch TV for a few minutes then resets. When it resets it hangs on the powering-up screen. If I unplug it and plug it in again it boots up and I am good for another 10 minutes or so of TV. It worked fine for a couple of weeks... Would this be a result of my install? The HD? Something unrelated? Thoughts on how to fix it? Thanks in advance!!


----------



## dlfl

davidmcd said:


> Help!
> 
> I upgraded 2 Tivos to the 1500 gig Seagate several weeks ago. I thought all went smoothly. One works fine. The other one lets me watch TV for a few minutes then resets. When it resets it hangs on the powering-up screen. If I unplug it and plug it in again it boots up and I am good for another 10 minutes or so of TV. It worked fine for a couple of weeks... Would this be a result of my install? The HD? Something unrelated? Thoughts on how to fix it? Thanks in advance!!


It could be the new Seagate (??). When I upgraded to a 1 TB Western Digital, I first ran their "Extended" diagnostic test. It took 9+ hours using a USB-SATA adapter but to me the added security was worth it.


----------



## bkdtv

davidmcd said:


> Help!
> 
> I upgraded 2 Tivos to the 1500 gig Seagate several weeks ago. I thought all went smoothly. One works fine. The other one lets me watch TV for a few minutes then resets. When it resets it hangs on the powering-up screen. If I unplug it and plug it in again it boots up and I am good for another 10 minutes or so of TV. It worked fine for a couple of weeks... Would this be a result of my install? The HD? Something unrelated? Thoughts on how to fix it? Thanks in advance!!


The second Seagate could be defective. Or you could've selected the wrong option in WinMFS. See FAQ #14 in the Internal Drive Upgrade section.


----------



## todeo

pyee said:


> Sigh. I must be doing something wrong. But what?
> 
> I have a Series 3 and bought a WD10EVVS to upgrade it. Snagged WinMFS 9.3f and connected both drives to my Windows XP SP2 PC (a Dell 530) using SATA cables. Made a backup of the original drive, as recommended, just in case. I followed the steps in the first post (with preservation of recordings option). That seemed to go all right as the operation completed (an hour later) and WinMFS now recognized the second drive as a Tivo drive. For obvious reasons, I elected to expand the space on the drive. Took the new WD, put it into the TiVo and powered it up. Got the "Welcome! Powering Up" screen. Which never went away.
> 
> I'm now at my wits end. I've tried:
> 
> Copying the backup to new drive without preserving the recordings
> Boot repair, both options 1 and 2 (didn't expect that to work, but it was quick to try)
> Another try at copying the original drive with recordings (and another hour waiting)
> 
> Still nothing. The drive appears to work for purposes of writing to it. I can hear it spin up in the Series 3 and make seeking noises for a few seconds, but that's it. When I put the original drive back into my TiVo, the things boots up fine, so I know the system hardware is still functional.
> 
> Would some kind soul give me some other ideas I can try out? I've been crawling my way through the posts in this thread but have not yet come across one that describes my situation.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> -Peter


Hi Pyee - I had the exact same problem as you with a Series 3 and the recommended WD10EVVS drive. Followed all instructions exactly, but TiVo never got past the Welcome...Powering Up screen. Thought my drive might be bad, so I RMA'd it and received another. Same issue with the new WD10EVVS drive. Both drives had a mfr date of Sept 20 2009. Could this be a bad batch? Or maybe something changed with the firmware? I've gone ahead and ordered a Seagate to try that. But anyone have any insight or help with the WD10EVVS not working with a Series 3?


----------



## hearncl

richsadams said:


> Yes, the drive model is listed and if it is formatted as a "TiVo" drive or not. Your new drive will not be listed as a "TiVo" drive.
> 
> That said, I've always used a PC I built to do my upgrades. I'll be interested to hear how things go using your Mac. Since I have an iMac, MacBook and Mini I couldn't do what you're doing so I'd have to use an adapter to connect the HDD's, but it'll be good to know that it works. (Although I'll probably never give up my "creation" for sentimental reasons  )


I used my Mac Pro with Win XP installed on a Boot Camp partition to upgrade my TiVoHD drive to 1 TB, following the instructions in the first post (18 B, Preserves Settings and Recordings). I approached this with some trepidation, since I was using the same drive, WD10EVVS with manufacture date Sept. 20 2009, that gave problems to pyee and todeo. A difference is that I upgraded a TiVoHD and not a Series 3 as they tried. (I hope their problem is resolved, as I have a Series 3 that I'd also like to upgrade.)

To speed up copying, before removing the original TiVoHD drive (actually an earlier 750 GB upgrade) I permanently deleted about 75 items in the Recently Deleted folder. The Mac Pro has four internal SATA drive bays, and I installed the original TiVo drive and the WD10EVVS in two of them. I booted into Win XP and first turned off security settings (in the McAfee software supplied free by Comcast). I ran the latest version of WinMFS and followed the instructions. There was no problem selecting the original and new drives at the various steps. Copying the settings and recordings to the new drive took about one hour. I installed the new drive in the TiVo and held my breath as it booted up, but it worked fine and all recordings seem to have been preserved.

For Macs lacking internal expansion, I don't see any reason why using adapters to attach the drives shouldn't work with Windows installed using Boot Camp. Windows running under virtualization software might be problematic, but I think I've seen posts where this was done successfully.


----------



## innocentfreak

todeo said:


> Hi Pyee - I had the exact same problem as you with a Series 3 and the recommended WD10EVVS drive. Followed all instructions exactly, but TiVo never got past the Welcome...Powering Up screen. Thought my drive might be bad, so I RMA'd it and received another. Same issue with the new WD10EVVS drive. Both drives had a mfr date of Sept 20 2009. Could this be a bad batch? Or maybe something changed with the firmware? I've gone ahead and ordered a Seagate to try that. But anyone have any insight or help with the WD10EVVS not working with a Series 3?


Ugh I just got in a WD10EVVS drive and so far it is sitting at Welcome! Powering Up... on my third Tivo HD. I previously uprgaded the other two without a problem with the same drive ordered a while back.

I may try reimaging the drive again here in a minute. If that doesn't work I may try doing it from one of the other Tivo backups I saved.


----------



## pyee

richsadams said:


> Hi Peter. I don't think I qualify as a kind soul, but I do feel your pain. Hmmm...it does sound like you've done your homework. When TiVo cannot get past the Welcome! Powering up screen it means that the motherboard cannot communicate with the hard drive.
> 
> I have seen this exact complaint before and this may seem insulting but it's not meant to be...are you sure you've actually fully connected TiVo's hard drive SATA cable to your new drive when installing it? A loose connection can cause what you're seeing. You did? Okay then.


Yeah, checked that and pushed the cable in pretty firmly to make sure that wasn't the problem.


> You didn't mention trying to do a basic upgrade (w/o preserving recordings) using the original hard drive (not the backup). It's possible that some of the info is corrupted in your saved image (which I'd delete and re-save again while you're at it). That would be Section V, #18a in the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ.


I read #18a as doing the copy without recordings by means of the backup file. It doesn't seem to use mfscopy.



> Also if you have any virus protection (at all) did you fully disable it during the upgrade process?


Well, I thought I had. But it seems to have turned itself back on. And wouldn't you know, that was it.  Killed McAfee again, made another copy and this time it worked. All right, I made one other change which sort of clouds the issue, which was to up the swap partition to 256 MB, but other than that it worked!

I did run into one problem with the new drive. The TiVo came up, but one of the two CableCards was not happy. It wouldn't initialize properly. Comcast came out a few hours after I reported the problem and swapped in another card. The tech didn't think the new one was operating properly either, but at least the TiVo sees it as active and not stuck in an initialization loop. More importantly, everything I care about seems to be work and as I don't have any premium channels at the moment, I don't really care if I can't do more than record regular channels. Not sure if the drive upgrade had anything to do with the CableCard going out of service.

Thanks for all of the help, Rich. You are a kind soul. :up:

-Peter


----------



## pyee

todeo said:


> Hi Pyee - I had the exact same problem as you with a Series 3 and the recommended WD10EVVS drive. Followed all instructions exactly, but TiVo never got past the Welcome...Powering Up screen. Thought my drive might be bad, so I RMA'd it and received another. Same issue with the new WD10EVVS drive. Both drives had a mfr date of Sept 20 2009. Could this be a bad batch? Or maybe something changed with the firmware? I've gone ahead and ordered a Seagate to try that. But anyone have any insight or help with the WD10EVVS not working with a Series 3?


In my case as you can see from my response to Rich, it was McAfee that may have done me in. Although WinMFS performed the copy without complaint and the Mfsinfo option showed the drive looking normal, something in the process didn't complete correctly. Once I made sure McAfee was down for the count, the copied drive worked fine.


----------



## pyee

innocentfreak said:


> Ugh I just got in a WD10EVVS drive and so far it is sitting at Welcome! Powering Up... on my third Tivo HD. I previously upgraded the other two without a problem with the same drive ordered a while back.
> 
> I may try reimaging the drive again here in a minute. If that doesn't work I may try doing it from one of the other Tivo backups I saved.


Given you've already used this kind of drive successfully before, I'm going to say you know what you're doing, so it wasn't my anti-virus snafu that got you. Seems unlikely that it would be a bad drive if the copy appears to have worked. Whenever I've had a bad drive, it's been DOA right out of the shipping box. I had started running SpinRite on my drive just to check the surface, but the 104 hours it was going to take for a Level 4 analysis seemed just a little long to wait.  I was really hoping it was something boneheaded on my part rather than a bad drive. Fortunately it was.


----------



## innocentfreak

Well I tried restoring off one of my old images also and that didn't work either so apparently my Tivo HD doesn't like the WD10EVVS with a manufacturing date of sept 20, 2009.


----------



## dlfl

innocentfreak said:


> Well I tried restoring off one of my old images also and that didn't work either so apparently my Tivo HD doesn't like the WD10EVVS with a manufacturing date of sept 20, 2009.


Could the drive be defective? The "extended" test of WD diagnostics should take about 3 hours, I think, as long as you have a SATA port rather than a USB-SATA adapter. (My WD10EADS took 9+ hours with the adapter.)


----------



## innocentfreak

dlfl said:


> Could the drive be defective? The "extended" test of WD diagnostics should take about 3 hours, I think, as long as you have a SATA port rather than a USB-SATA adapter. (My WD10EADS took 9+ hours with the adapter.)


I am going to run it tonight to see. It passed on quick tests and I saved the MSinfo though I don't know if it will be any help.


----------



## jlib

davidmcd said:


> DaveL1981 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I'm from Australia, and it turns out the WD15EVDS is impossible to buy - and Provantage won't ship it to Aus.
> 
> I was considering a Seagate ST31500541AS - however there have been some comments about the noise. The specs claim a maximum of 28dB compared to 26 dB for the WD.
> 
> Has anyone got any experience with this drive and any solid feedback on the noise?
> 
> I would have thought that anything under 30 dB would be near enough to silent anyway.
> 
> If all else fails - I suppose I'll just go for a WD10EVDS.
> 
> 
> 
> I have the Seagate drive in 2 Tivos. It is definitely noisier then the stock HD. While I do not hear it at all in the family room I do hear it in the bedroom. If I were to do it again I would use it for non-sleeping rooms. Hope that helps.
Click to expand...

That doesn't match my experience at all. Not only was it quieter than the stock WD 250GB drive from my S3, it was not discernibly louder than a WD GP 1TB drive (not exactly the same WD10EVDS model but mechanically the same). The published seek spec of the Seagate 1.5TB Barracuda LP (Low Power) is 26dB and that is in line with my experience. The Seagate Barracuda LP (retail box ST315005N*4*A1AS-RK, 5 year warranty) was also significantly cooler than the WD GP. Anyone who says it is noisy can only be confusing it with the more readily available regular 7200RPM Seagate 1.5TB Barracuda (retail box ST315005N*1*A1AS-RK) which is listed by Seagate at 32dB.

Edit: I mention the retail box number rather than the OEM bare drive because that is the only way to get the 5 year warranty from Seagate.


----------



## innocentfreak

dlfl said:


> Could the drive be defective? The "extended" test of WD diagnostics should take about 3 hours, I think, as long as you have a SATA port rather than a USB-SATA adapter. (My WD10EADS took 9+ hours with the adapter.)


Well it passed extended testing and I tried it again. For a second I thought I had something since I got past the Welcome! Powering up screen since it went to a blank gray screen but nothing after that. Of course when I opened up the Tivo I had forgotten to reconnect the drive. After doing so the same stuck at Welcome! Powering up screen.

This definitely sucks and looks like the EVVS drives may be buyer beware now.


----------



## bkdtv

todeo said:


> Hi Pyee - I had the exact same problem as you with a Series 3 and the recommended WD10EVVS drive. Followed all instructions exactly, but TiVo never got past the Welcome...Powering Up screen. Thought my drive might be bad, so I RMA'd it and received another. Same issue with the new WD10EVVS drive. Both drives had a mfr date of Sept 20 2009. Could this be a bad batch? Or maybe something changed with the firmware? I've gone ahead and ordered a Seagate to try that. But anyone have any insight or help with the WD10EVVS not working with a Series 3?


Do you still have this drive? If so, what is the revision?



innocentfreak said:


> Well it passed extended testing and I tried it again. For a second I thought I had something since I got past the Welcome! Powering up screen since it went to a blank gray screen but nothing after that. Of course when I opened up the Tivo I had forgotten to reconnect the drive. After doing so the same stuck at Welcome! Powering up screen.
> 
> This definitely sucks and looks like the EVVS drives may be buyer beware now.


Could you post the drive revision/details?


----------



## innocentfreak

Here is everything on the drive. Let me know if I missed something. I need to throw it in the computer for the firmware revision.

MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
Procuct of Thailand
DATE: 20 SEP 2009
DCM: HARCHV2MAB
R/N: 701640
LBA: 1953525168


----------



## bkdtv

innocentfreak said:


> Here is everything on the drive. Let me know if I missed something. I need to throw it in the computer for the firmware revision.
> 
> MDL: WD10EVVS - *63M5B0*
> Procuct of Thailand
> DATE: 20 SEP 2009
> DCM: HARCHV2MAB
> R/N: 701640
> LBA: 1953525168


Thanks, that's what I wanted to know. No need to throw it in your computer.


----------



## hearncl

innocentfreak said:


> Here is everything on the drive. Let me know if I missed something. I need to throw it in the computer for the firmware revision.
> 
> MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
> Product of Thailand
> DATE: 20 SEP 2009
> DCM: HARCHV2MAB
> R/N: 701640
> LBA: 1953525168


As noted in my earlier  post, I successfully upgraded a TiVoHD using the WD10EVVS. I cracked open the TiVo and here is the drive info:

MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
Product of Thailand
DATE: 20 SEP 2009
DCM: DARCHV2MBB
R/N: 701640
LBA 1953525168

My drive S/N, in case it makes a difference, is WCAV52163237

Other than the S/N, only the DCM is different from that posted by innocentfreak.

I ordered my drive from Amazon and it was just delivered yesterday.


----------



## innocentfreak

When I have time this afternoon I will make a final attempt to upgrade using another computer. Maybe it is something with my computer screwing it up then, but it is the same computer I have always used.


----------



## jasonander

I just wanted to say thank you for this thread and for the original poster for the detailed and clear directions. I just replaced my TivoHD drive with a 1 TB drive (WD10EVVS from Amazon) following the directions here and now have 157 hours of recording space plus all of my original recordings in tact and so far, no issues.

One optional suggestion to the directions: if you are replacing the internal drive and want to preserve your original recordings, prior to replacing the drive, permanently delete everything from your Recently Deleted folder. That way, the copy from the original drive to your new drive will be faster so you don't have to copy all of those deleted programs.


----------



## richsadams

hearncl said:


> Other than the S/N, only the DCM is different from that posted by innocentfreak.


A different DCM (Drive Configuration Matrix) generally indicates that there is a hardware change. It could be something very minor like a head part supplier/number or more complicated like a logic board...hard to say. IIRC the DCM only changes with hardware updates, not firmware, but I could be wrong.

I don't think it's the case here, but it happened once before. WD's WD10EADS was originally compatible with the Series3 (I have one that worked) and then WD made some sort of change (no one ever figured out what it was) and it suddenly would no longer work in Series3's but still does work in TiVo HD's. (There wasn't a TiVo upgrade during that time either.) It doesn't seem likely that WD would have changed anything that would cause newer drives to no longer meet the same specs as the original but I suppose it's possible.



innocentfreak said:


> Here is everything on the drive. Let me know if I missed something. I need to throw it in the computer for the firmware revision.


My WAG would be that rather than these drives no longer working that there's something about your specific drive or the way it's being imaged that's not working. I guess the only thing to do would be to get an RMA and try another one or maybe image it with another computer.

So I'd bet that Innocent's is a one-off, but until we get more feedback it'll be impossible to say IMO.

EDIT: D'oh! Posting at the same time...you already thought of using another computer. If you've had success with that PC before I'd still think it's the HDD itself, but best of luck and thanks for keeping us posted!


----------



## richsadams

jasonander said:


> One optional suggestion to the directions: if you are replacing the internal drive and want to preserve your original recordings, prior to replacing the drive, permanently delete everything from your Recently Deleted folder. That way, the copy from the original drive to your new drive will be faster so you don't have to copy all of those deleted programs.


I agree...a mention of that would be valuable. I suppose some folks might want to keep the deleted programs for recovery, but having the opportunity to shorten copy time would be useful for most IMHO.

Welcome to the club and enjoy your "new" TiVo! :up:


----------



## roytwo

innocentfreak said:


> Well it passed extended testing and I tried it again. For a second I thought I had something since I got past the Welcome! Powering up screen since it went to a blank gray screen but nothing after that. Of course when I opened up the Tivo I had forgotten to reconnect the drive. After doing so the same stuck at Welcome! Powering up screen.
> 
> This definitely sucks and looks like the EVVS drives may be buyer beware now.


I am also trying to use a WD10EVVS I ordered from Amazon and am getting the same freeze at the powering up screen as "pyee" , "todeo" and the couple others have expressed. Isn't strange that several of us received WD10EVVS with in a couple days of each other and all have same problem that didn't exist before?

Still trying to get my S3 past the powering up screen with the new WD10EVVS


----------



## todeo

bkdtv said:


> Thanks, that's what I wanted to know. No need to throw it in your computer.


Mine was from amazon. Here's the info. This was the second drive I received from them. Both would not get past the Welcome...Powering Up screen.

MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
Product of Thailand
DATE: 20 SEP 2009
DCM: HARCHV2MHB
R/N: 701640
LBA: 1953525168

I did, however, order a Seagate Pipeline HD ST31000322CS from thenerds.net and using the same computer and instructions, this drive worked like a charm. Upgrade successful with 157 hours of HD space


----------



## dlfl

todeo said:


> ........I did, however, order a Seagate Pipeline HD ST31000322CS from thenerds.net and using the same computer and instructions, this drive worked like a charm. Upgrade successful with 157 hours of HD space


Just checked thenerds price: $103.98 with shipping. Not bad. And (per "the table") it's made for DVR's and is quiet.

At least one good alternative if the WD drives are in question.


----------



## dianebrat

dianebrat said:


> *sigh* this is not at all as smooth as I was hoping, the 160GB stock unit won't do a successful connect, i get an S02 error on loading data and that's it, even after rebooting.
> 
> Since you can't upgrade a drive twice, would a truncated backup of the 750GB restored to the 1.5TB be feasible? I was thinking the Instantcake method too, but I'm not finding that it works on a something in the 1.5TB range.
> 
> Any pointers to the right resource to be heading to in this, such as a link to a post in the upgrade forums is welcomed.
> 
> Diane


UPDATE:
I was able to put a stock 8.2 backup image back on my sick O/S 160GB TivoHD drive, I let it successfully update itself to 11.x, it ran great throughout.

Then the backup of that 160GB 11.x drive was taken and put on the 1.5TB Seagate 5400RPM LP drive, got me my proper 198 hours, and has been running fine.

I had hoped to copy my recordings en masse, but as it is I copied my most important off of it via Tivo Desktop, and dumped the rest without guilt.

Thanks for all the help I got in the thread. 
Diane


----------



## SpokaneDoug

roytwo said:


> I am also trying to use a WD10EVVS I ordered from Amazon and am getting the same freeze at the powering up screen as "pyee" , "todeo" and the couple others have expressed. Isn't strange that several of us received WD10EVVS with in a couple days of each other and all have same problem that didn't exist before?


Add one more to the list. 
I've followed the previous advice with no luck, now I'm off trying other options on my own. If I get anything working, I'll edit this post.

[EDIT: Fixed and working! See new note below for details.]


----------



## bkdtv

From what's been said above, it looks like the following WD10EVVS drives are incompatible:

MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
Product of Thailand
DATE: 20 SEP 2009
DCM: HARCHxxxxx
R/N: 701640
LBA: 1953525168

This is curious because the WD10EVVS is used in both the TivoHD XL and the My DVR Expander. Western Digital is selling these drives to TiVo, you'd think they'd be sure they actually worked. For now, I've removed the WD10EVVS from the first post.

Alternatives:

Seagate ST31000322CS @ Provantage.com
Seagate ST31000322CS @ theNerds.net
Seagate ST31000322CS @ Amazon.com

Western Digital WD10EVDS @ Amazon
Western Digital WD10EVDS @ Buy.com


----------



## eaayoung

I was ready to order the WD 1 TB drive for my S3, but after reading the post above, I decided to pry open my dead My DVR Expansion drive and install the drive in a new case. Picked up a NextStar3 case at CompUSA. As suspected, some internal part is defective and drive still works. The NextStar3 case is not a bad. It comes with an eSata cable that works, has a hard on/off switch, and the light on the front of the case rarely flashes. No fan in the case, but the case gets only warm to the touch.


----------



## SpokaneDoug

SpokaneDoug said:


> Add one more to the list.
> I've followed the previous advice with no luck, now I'm off trying other options on my own. If I get anything working, I'll edit this post.


OK, I've gotten my WD10EVVS working ! From the problem reports and my own experiences, I suspect there's some sort of timing issue between this drive and the current WinMFS. I got my TiVo working by booting my Windows Vista system into Safe Mode (w/o networking) and running WinMFS from there, as an administrator, so that my PC wasn't trying to do anything else in the background. Kicking up it's process priority might have been a good idea too, now that I think about it.


----------



## bkdtv

SpokaneDoug said:


> OK, I've gotten my WD10EVVS working ! From the problem reports and my own experiences, I suspect there's some sort of timing issue between this drive and the current WinMFS. I got my TiVo working by booting my Windows Vista system into Safe Mode (w/o networking) and running WinMFS from there, as an administrator, so that my PC wasn't trying to do anything else in the background. Kicking up it's process priority might have been a good idea too, now that I think about it.


Did you have some sort of security or antivirus software running? Safe mode would probably avoid that.

It's not clear why, but WinMFS just won't produce valid backup images and/or restores when certain anti-virus and security programs are running in the background.


----------



## innocentfreak

Well I tried it again with no luck on a second PC running XP PRO and same result. It acts like it goes through fine but once I reassemble the Tivo, it doesn't boot. I just wish there was a program to actually test it on the PC so I wouldn't have to keep breaking everything down. This time I tried MFScopy with recordings and I also tried just backing up and restoring last night.

I think it may just be one of those cursed weekends where nothing wants to work right for me. Since Amazon was out of stock and I ordered from the new stock, I don't know if RMAing it to Amazon is worth it since I will probably just end up with another current drive.

I just don't know what to try next. 

here is the MSinfo if anyone sees anything.
Mfsinfo (Drive 3)

Boot Page
Boot Page: root=/dev/hda4
Active Boot Partition: 3 Active Root Partition: 4
Backup Boot Partition: 6 Backup Root Partition: 7

MFS Super Header
state=0 magic=ebbafeed
devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13 /dev/hda14 /dev/hda15
zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=1951670272

Zone Maps
Z0:	type=0
map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=589822
next_map_start=263266 next_map_size=6 next_backup_map_start=589816
zone_first=1122 zone_last=263265 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=3d36510a logstamp=988571 num_bitmap=1
Z1:	type=2
map_start=263266 map_size=6 backup_map_start=589816
next_map_start=263272 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589782
zone_first=589824 zone_last=138215423 zone_size=137625600 min(chunk)=20480
free=21852160 checksum=695ac26f logstamp=999265 num_bitmap=14
Z2:	type=1
map_start=263272 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589782
next_map_start=138219520 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=138809343
zone_first=263306 zone_last=589777 zone_size=326472 min(chunk)=8
free=81680 checksum=38889cdd logstamp=999265 num_bitmap=17
Z3:	type=0
map_start=138219520 map_size=1 backup_map_start=138809343
next_map_start=138481665 next_map_size=10 next_backup_map_start=138809333
zone_first=138219521 zone_last=138481664 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=1973bfca logstamp=988571 num_bitmap=1
Z4:	type=2
map_start=138481665 map_size=10 backup_map_start=138809333
next_map_start=138481675 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=138809299
zone_first=138809344 zone_last=310718463 zone_size=171909120 min(chunk)=20480
free=51650560 checksum=5de4aa7e logstamp=999265 num_bitmap=15
Z5:	type=1
map_start=138481675 map_size=34 backup_map_start=138809299
next_map_start=310728704 next_map_size=67 next_backup_map_start=310730685
zone_first=138481709 zone_last=138809292 zone_size=327584 min(chunk)=8
free=280704 checksum=4ad31492 logstamp=999012 num_bitmap=17
Z6:	type=2
map_start=310728704 map_size=67 backup_map_start=310730685
next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=0
zone_first=310730752 zone_last=1951670271 zone_size=1640939520 min(chunk)=20480
free=1640939520 checksum=7c828754 logstamp=0 num_bitmap=18

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 782.5G)

Total SA SD Hours: 1040	Total DTV SD Hours: 908 88 &#37; Free
Software: 11.0d-01-2-652	Tivo Model: TCD652160


----------



## SpokaneDoug

bkdtv said:


> Did you have some sort of security or antivirus software running? Safe mode would probably avoid that.
> 
> It's not clear why, but WinMFS just won't produce valid backup images and/or restores when certain anti-virus and security programs are running in the background.


Yes, I've got Kaspersky installed, but I had disabled Real-Time monitoring while using WinMFS. I moved to Safe Mode just to make sure it wasn't still puttering in the background.


----------



## innocentfreak

well i am trying in safe mode now and it is taking a lot longer so maybe this is a good sign.


----------



## richsadams

innocentfreak said:


> well i am trying in safe mode now and it is taking a lot longer so maybe this is a good sign.


Never give up! _Never_ surrender! :up:


----------



## CraigK

My WD 10EVVS arrived from Amazon today:

MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
Product of Thailand
DATE: 20 SEP 2009
DCM: DHNCHV2MGB
R/N: 701640
LBA: 1953525168

I won't have a chance to try it out until Monday or possibly Tuesday because of work.

Thanks to all who have posted here with hints (Safe Mode, Anit-virus, etc.)


----------



## jasonander

bkdtv said:


> From what's been said above, it looks like the following WD10EVVS drives are incompatible:
> 
> MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
> Product of Thailand
> DATE: 20 SEP 2009
> DCM: HARCHxxxxx
> R/N: 701640
> LBA: 1953525168
> 
> This is curious because the WD10EVVS is used in both the TivoHD XL and the My DVR Expander. Western Digital is selling these drives to TiVo, you'd think they'd be sure they actually worked. For now, I've removed the WD10EVVS from the first post.
> 
> Alternatives:
> 
> Seagate ST31000322CS @ Provantage.com
> Seagate ST31000322CS @ theNerds.net
> Seagate ST31000322CS @ Amazon.com
> 
> Western Digital WD10EVDS @ Amazon
> Western Digital WD10EVDS @ Buy.com


FYI, I hacked my drive today with a WD10EVVS drive I received from Amazon yesterday. So far it's fine and I've booted my Tivo twice successfully. Here's the info:
MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
Product of Thailand
DATE: 20 SEP 2009
DCM: HANCNxxxxx
R/N: 701640
LBA: 1953525168

Only thing that's different than the other posters is the DCM, but that seems to be a serial number. I used WinMFS 9.3f on Vista Ultimate 64 bit with both drives connected to my computer's internal SATA controller on the motherboard. I did not use Safe mode and I do not have Kaspersky installed. Since this worked fine, I'd like to upgrade my Tivo S3, but still need to order the drive (I wanted to make sure my Tivo HD was OK first with the upgrade). Should I go for another drive model now?


----------



## roytwo

The drive I am working with is

MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
Product of Thailand
DATE: 20 SEP 2009
DCM: DANCHV2MAB
R/N: 701640
LBA: 1953525168

And still no joy. Verified no AV running. Also tried safe mode.( the slow time probably due to slower USB drivers). Still goes to powering up screen and stops. Am using 9.3f on Vista 64 bit . I am using a USB adapter, see jasonander used internal connection. Maybe I'll try that. Could that make such a big difference?


----------



## SpokaneDoug

roytwo said:


> I am using a USB adapter, see jasonander used internal connection. Maybe I'll try that. Could that make such a big difference?


I also used an internal SATA connection when I got it working using 32-bit Vista in Safe Mode.


----------



## richsadams

jasonander said:


> Only thing that's different than the other posters is the DCM, but that seems to be a serial number.


The DCM is the Drive Configuration Matrix, not the serial number. WD serial numbers are 12 characters. It would be helpful if you posted the full DCM.

I think I would hold off on another WD10EVVS for a short while until this gets sorted out. If you really want to move forward now I'd pick one of the other recommended drives listed on the first post the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ.

Thanks for the feedback. :up:


----------



## jasonander

richsadams said:


> The DCM is the Drive Configuration Matrix, not the serial number. WD serial numbers are 12 characters. It would be helpful if you posted the full DCM.


The full DCM is HANCNV2MAB.

Thanks for the advice. I'll hold off on getting another drive for a few days to see if this gets sorted out.


----------



## richsadams

jasonander said:


> The full DCM is HANCNV2MAB.
> 
> Thanks for the advice. I'll hold off on getting another drive for a few days to see if this gets sorted out.


Thanks for that.


----------



## richsadams

FWIW I opened a support ticket w/WD for the WD10EVVS explaining what we're dealing with. I want to see if they'll tell me if they've made any production changes (firmware, logic boards, hardware, etc.) that could explain why it appears some of these drives have suddenly become incompatible with TiVo. As bkdtv pointed out earlier, this is the same model number TiVo uses itself so it's really difficult to understand why there would be an issue. 

I really doubt if they'll be very forthcoming but hopefully I'll hear back next week. I'll be sure to post whatever they say.


----------



## jlib

todeo said:


> ...I did, however, order a Seagate Pipeline HD ST31000322CS from thenerds.net and using the same computer and instructions, this drive worked like a charm. Upgrade successful with 157 hours of HD space


The Seagate Pipeline 1TB and it's similar but better warranteed Seagate Barracuda LP 1TB retail boxed sibling are superb drives and set the new benchmark for efficiency. I measured a significant surface temperature difference between a 1.5TB version of the Seagate LP I have and a 1TB WD Green Power drive after similar drive activity.

Seagate is even promoting the use of their 5900RPM Low Power line (including the Pipeline) for fanless environments. They even suggest that DVR manufacturers design a future DVR to use convection cooling.


----------



## dlfl

richsadams said:


> FWIW I opened a support ticket w/WD for the WD10EVVS explaining what we're dealing with. I want to see if they'll tell me if they've made any production changes (firmware, logic boards, hardware, etc.) that could explain why it appears some of these drives have suddenly become incompatible with TiVo. As bkdtv pointed out earlier, this is the same model number TiVo uses itself so it's really difficult to understand why there would be an issue.
> 
> I really doubt if they'll be very forthcoming but hopefully I'll hear back next week. I'll be sure to post whatever they say.


Based on *SpokaneDoug*'s experience it seems more likely the compatibility issue is with WinMFS, no ??

EDIT: I agree for the purposes of talking to WD, referring to TiVo may be better than trying to explain what WinMFS is.


----------



## dlfl

Thailand? *Thailand ???*

Where does Seagate make theirs? The moon ?


----------



## innocentfreak

well since 8pm i have been copying. i am at 34 bars so hopefully it will work. if not i may blow up my computer.


----------



## richsadams

dlfl said:


> Based on *SpokaneDoug*'s experience it seems more likely the compatibility issue is with WinMFS, no ??


I don't think it's a winMFS issue as nothing has changed with that program and the WD10EVVS has been used by lots of members for several months now w/o any problems, at least up until the last few days...could be wrong of course.

It seems more likely that WD has either changed something or it's quite possible that there are a few "bad" drives floating around. That's why it's important to post everything about each drive that is or isn't working right now.

Drive issues aren't unheard of of course...Seagate had a horrendous time when they first introduced their 1.5TB drives. There were all sorts of firmware mistakes, DOA drives, drives bricking after a short time, recalls and such. That was a real first for Seagate but they seemed to have cleared things up. I don't think any drive maker is immune from production problems.

Hopefully we can get to the bottom of things.


----------



## roytwo

Took an other run at with my new WD10EVVS. Connect direct to MB as suggested. Did everything from within safe mode as also suggested and still no joy. Guess I will repurpose this drive for computer use and try the Seagate Pipeline HD ST31000322CS.


----------



## richsadams

roytwo said:


> Took an other run at with my new WD10EVVS. Connect direct to MB as suggested. Did everything from within safe mode as also suggested and still no joy. Guess I will repurpose this drive for computer use and try the Seagate Pipeline HD ST31000322CS.


Terribly sorry to hear that, how frustrating! But thanks for reporting back. :up:


----------



## innocentfreak

No go here either. After 20 hours and supposedly a successful completion, the Tivo still won't boot. Not sure what I will do from here.


----------



## dlfl

richsadams said:


> I don't think it's a winMFS issue as nothing has changed with that program............


Yeah. I meant an issue between the WD drives and WinMFS (rather than between WD and TiVo). One user got success by rerunning WinMFS in safe mode where he had failure before. Thus the problem there was not an issue between the drive and TiVo.

Anyway, as you say, the important question is what did WD change?

Although .... I wonder if Spike would know of anything in WinMFS that would be sensitive to small variations of drive response ?


----------



## SpokaneDoug

Sorry to hear others aren't having success with their WD10EVVS's. I guess I don't know why mine suddenly started working. It did take 4 tries -- I cleaned out the 'Deleted Items' and 'TiVo Suggestion' folders to speed the process early on, so it only took about 25 minutes per try.


----------



## dbutts

great job on the doc. upgraded my tivoHD today w/ wd10evvs drive. all is going well so far. easy instructions, simple upgrade.. love all the space!


----------



## dlfl

dbutts said:


> great job on the doc. upgraded my tivoHD today w/ wd10evvs drive. all is going well so far. easy instructions, simple upgrade.. love all the space!


Any chance you could post your drive information as per this example:

MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
Product of Thailand
DATE: 20 SEP 2009
DCM: DANCHV2MAB
R/N: 701640
LBA: 1953525168

The DCM code seems to be the most important item.


----------



## armstrr

i know 3 years is standard for hard drive warranties. are there any recommended hard drives that come with a 5 year warranty?


----------



## dbutts

dlfl said:


> Any chance you could post your drive information as per this example:
> 
> MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
> Product of Thailand
> DATE: 20 SEP 2009
> DCM: DANCHV2MAB
> R/N: 701640
> LBA: 1953525168
> 
> The DCM code seems to be the most important item.


i'll have to open my tivo to get that info. it might be a few days... its buried in a mountain of a/v equipment


----------



## richsadams

armstrr said:


> i know 3 years is standard for hard drive warranties. are there any recommended hard drives that come with a 5 year warranty?


Most "bulk" hard drives carry a three-year warranty. They are typically used en masse in servers, etc. but are popular here with TiVo since they usually cost a little less and for many models are the only way they are sold.

Seagate "retail box" drives still carry a five-year warranty since they are commonly used in PC's, etc. So if you buy a full retail package like this which usually includes cables, mounting hardware, etc. you can still get a five-year warranty. The trick is knowing exactly which drive is inside the box. The example (ST310005N1A1AS-RK, "RK" stands for Retail Kit) actually has a Seagate ST31000340AS hard drive inside. (Not one of the recommended drives for TiVo because of a high failure rate back in January or so...might be okay now, I don't know).

In any case, that's how you can still get a five-year warranty, but it's best to be sure the drive "inside" is recommended on the first post of the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ.


----------



## stuck23235

I installed a WD10EVVS the end of August. Recently the tivo has started restarting for no apparent reason. Is this a problem from the WD10EVVS or could this be another problem? It was probably 3 weeks ago when I first saw a restart and now it is happening much more frequently. The tivo hd is a refurb I just got in August.


----------



## bkdtv

stuck23235 said:


> I installed a WD10EVVS the end of August. Recently the tivo has started restarting for no apparent reason. Is this a problem from the WD10EVVS or could this be another problem? It was probably 3 weeks ago when I first saw a restart and now it is happening much more frequently. The tivo hd is a refurb I just got in August.


There is always some risk with refurbs. There's the possibility that TiVo missed some hardware problem for the return in its refurb process.

There are several things you can do as precautions. If the TiVo resides in an enclosed cabinet, make sure it has the ventilation it needs (DVR Diagnostics screen will indicate ambient temp); it's also possible that the refurb requires more ventilation than the typical TiVo. If the TiVo is positioned in close proximity to the underside of your TV, move it farther away; there are a few TVs that emit enough RF interface to cause a TivoHD to occasionally crash/reboot if it is placed within 6-12".


----------



## stuck23235

I don't think it is a heat issue. There is plenty of room and I think it is more than a foot from the tv.

I guess I will need to put the original drive back in a see if this continues.


----------



## richsadams

stuck23235 said:


> I guess I will need to put the original drive back in a see if this continues.


Putting the original back in is a good next step. If the drive worked out of the box it doesn't seem likely that it's a model number problem, but could be a problematic drive (bad sectors, etc.). Did you happen to run a full diagnostic on it before the upgrade? It's always a good idea to make sure the drive doesn't have any issues before doing anything with it. WD's Lifeguard (http://support.wdc.com/download/) has the extended diagnostic test that can be run prior to upgrading. If the drive continues to have problems you could run the "quick test", that will keep everything intact, but it isn't as good as the extended read/write/read test which can take up to 12 hours but ensures everything is working. Keep in mind that if you do run the extended test all the data will be wiped and you'll have to re-image it again (or get an RMA from WD for a new one if it fails).

Do you happen to have an external hard drive connected?


----------



## richsadams

Noted that Buy.com has a good price on the recommended Fantom 1TB Green eSATA drive - $76.99 AR w/free shipping:

http://www.buy.com/prod/fantom-gree...rnal-hard/q/loc/101/211903849.html?adid=17070

Note that this drive will work via P&P with TiVo Series3 ONLY. See the directions on the first post of the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ for instructions about marrying it to a TiVo HD or HDXL.


----------



## Carlthulhu

Has anyone tried the 1.5TB Western Digital WD15EVDS?

It's available from provantage for $130.70. I'd add a link, but I'm still a newbie who can't post links here.

I'd like to replace the drive in my TivoHD with one. Will it work?

I realize it won't use the entire 1.5TB, but it should expand to 1.26 TB usable, right?

Thanks,

Carl


----------



## drhankz

Carlthulhu said:


> Has anyone tried the 1.5TB Western Digital WD15EVDS?
> 
> It's available from provantage for $130.70. I'd add a link, but I'm still a newbie who can't post links here.
> 
> I'd like to replace the drive in my TivoHD with one. Will it work?
> 
> I realize it won't use the entire 1.5TB, but it should expand to 1.26 TB usable, right?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Carl


I don't know the specifics of the drive to know if it is compatible
with the TiVo system.

But I couldn't help but jump in and say - I think ANY 1.5TB drive 
in a TiVo is a waste of money since you don't get all the 0.5TB
extra over the much lower costs 1TB drives. I upgradesd my TiVo 
day one to 1TB. I have never come close to running out of space. 
157 Hours is a lot of TV recording space. If you record things and
NEVER watch them - sure - Load up.

I use it for time shifting so I can watch what I want to watch on
my schedule. I watch a program and erase it. I doubt that I have 
ever hit even 25% to 30%.

Just my two cent opinion - save the money.


----------



## richsadams

Carlthulhu said:


> Has anyone tried the 1.5TB Western Digital WD15EVDS? It's available from provantage for $130.70. I'd add a link, but I'm still a newbie who can't post links here. I'd like to replace the drive in my TivoHD with one. Will it work? I realize it won't use the entire 1.5TB, but it should expand to 1.26 TB usable, right? Thanks, Carl


Hi Carl. Per Section IV, #30 of the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ:



> Compatible 1.5TB drives include the Western Digital WD15EVDS (source), Seagate ST31500541AS, and Seagate ST315005N4A1AS (retail version of ST31500541AS).


I'm w/drhankz, 1TB has been plenty for us as well. I've gotten close to full a few times but easily rectified that by dumping some of the stuff I'll never end up watching anyway. Unless you really want to archive recordings, that little bit extra is a little bit costly (to the tune of an extra $50 or so for another .26GB as compared to a 1TB WD10EADS or something similar).

Happy upgrading!


----------



## CraigK

Well I'm disappointed. I barely got anywhere with my TiVo HD upgrade.

I was planning on doing the *TiVo Internal Upgrade Instructions: Preserves Settings Only* option. I had my original TiVo drive hooked up to the SATA cable in my computer and when I ran WinMFS everything looked okay. WinMFS saw my TiVo drive (WD1600AVBS-63SVAO ATA), but when I tried to select the TiVo drive I got an error box...

*GUI Tools To Backup Hard Drives Has Encountered A Problem and Needs to Close. We are Sorry for the Inconvenience. Send Error Report/Don't Send*

I've spent a couple of hours trying different things out, like running in Safe Mode, downloading WinMFS again, but always get the error.

I'm expecting a SATA->USB cable to arrive tomorrow and maybe doing it that way will make a difference.

I have to put a jumper on newer hard drives in my computer to enable 1.5GB transfer rate since my computer is about four years old and doesn't support 3.0GB. I had a jumper on the TiVo drive (pins 5-6). Didn't try it without the jumper. I wouldn't expect the drive to work at all without the jumper

Any suggestions would be appreciated.


----------



## richsadams

CraigK said:


> Well I'm disappointed. I barely got anywhere with my TiVo HD upgrade.


Hmmm...that _is_ frustrating. It might be the SATA connection so the new adapter may resolve things.

But AFAIK, no one has had to use any jumpers on TiVo drives at all. WinMFS works outside of the normal Windows environment when it comes to dealing with the hard drives so maybe neither need jumpers? Hmmm...

Best of luck!


----------



## CraigK

richsadams said:


> Hmmm...that _is_ frustrating. It might be the SATA connection so the new adapter may resolve things.
> 
> But AFAIK, no one has had to use any jumpers on TiVo drives at all. WinMFS works outside of the normal Windows environment when it comes to dealing with the hard drives so maybe neither need jumpers? Hmmm...
> 
> Best of luck!


I figured I'd only have to use the jumper on the TiVo drive and the new 1TB drive while hooked to my computer. I'd remove them when installing inside the TiVo. I'll try it without a jumper, but don't think that will do it. The drives in my computer are now a Seagate 500GB (C) and a 1TB (D). They both require a jumper to work. I had the TiVo drive hooked up to the cable the D: drive normally uses.

Thanks.

edit: WinMFS doesn't even recognize the TiVo drive without the jumper in. I'm going to put my TiVo back together and wait for the USB cable and see if that works. I'll keep you posted here.


----------



## richsadams

CraigK said:


> I figured I'd only have to use the jumper on the TiVo drive and the new 1TB drive while hooked to my computer. I'd remove them when installing inside the TiVo. I'll try it without a jumper, but don't think that will do it. The drives in my computer are now a Seagate 500GB (C) and a 1TB (D). They both require a jumper to work. I had the TiVo drive hooked up to the cable the D: drive normally uses.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> edit: WinMFS doesn't even recognize the TiVo drive without the jumper in. I'm going to put my TiVo back together and wait for the USB cable and see if that works. I'll keep you posted here.


Sounds good. You may have to bribe a friend to use a newer computer I suppose...kind of a PIA, but worth it in the end. Hopefully the new adapter will do the trick.


----------



## stuck23235

richsadams said:


> Do you happen to have an external hard drive connected?


I do not have an external drive. I think there are 3 possible causes. The 1TB drive, the HD Tivo, or the FiOS M card. Can a cable card cause the Tivo to restart? It does have to reacquire channels after restarting.

I did not think to test the 1 TB drive because it was brand new. I was more worried about the Tivo because it was a refurb, but I figured it had a brand new drive. It sounds like most Tivo problems are the drive so I was not too worried about the Tivo.


----------



## richsadams

CraigK said:


> I figured I'd only have to use the jumper on the TiVo drive and the new 1TB drive while hooked to my computer. I'd remove them when installing inside the TiVo. I'll try it without a jumper, but don't think that will do it. The drives in my computer are now a Seagate 500GB (C) and a 1TB (D). They both require a jumper to work. I had the TiVo drive hooked up to the cable the D: drive normally uses.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> edit: WinMFS doesn't even recognize the TiVo drive without the jumper in. I'm going to put my TiVo back together and wait for the USB cable and see if that works. I'll keep you posted here.


I hope your new adapter works, but the more I think about it the more I think that your computer may not be able to do the job. I don't think things are going to go well with jumpers on either drive. Jumpers cause changes to the drive's output so your computer can read it and they will also likely cause input changes; how the drive handles incoming data. So my WAG is that the jumpers won't allow winMFS to correctly read your TiVo drive and as far as making a copy, jumpers on either or both drives are going to be a problem. You may have to seek out another computer for your upgrade. My two cents...hope I'm wrong.


----------



## richsadams

stuck23235 said:


> I do not have an external drive. I think there are 3 possible causes. The 1TB drive, the HD Tivo, or the FiOS M card. Can a cable card cause the Tivo to restart? It does have to reacquire channels after restarting.
> 
> I did not think to test the 1 TB drive because it was brand new. I was more worried about the Tivo because it was a refurb, but I figured it had a brand new drive. It sounds like most Tivo problems are the drive so I was not too worried about the Tivo.


Yes, a problematic signal can cause TiVo to reboot but AFAIK no one has complained about a VZ FIOS cable card. The drive could be the problem, but w/o diagnostics it's hard to say. There could be a power issue with your TiVo causing it to reboot as well.

Does TiVo work normally with the original drive reinstalled?


----------



## bkdtv

stuck23235 said:


> I do not have an external drive. I think there are 3 possible causes. The 1TB drive, the HD Tivo, or the FiOS M card. Can a cable card cause the Tivo to restart? It does have to reacquire channels after restarting.


If your TiVo has 11.0d, neither a FiOS CableCard or the FiOS signal would cause the TivoHD to reboot.

The problem is likely with either your 1TB drive or the refurb hardware.

Did you put the original drive back in to see if the issue continues?


----------



## CraigK

richsadams said:


> I hope your new adapter works, but the more I think about it the more I think that your computer may not be able to do the job. I don't think things are going to go well with jumpers on either drive. Jumpers cause changes to the drive's output so your computer can read it and they will also likely cause input changes; how the drive handles incoming data. So my WAG is that the jumpers won't allow winMFS to correctly read your TiVo drive and as far as making a copy, jumpers on either or both drives are going to be a problem. You may have to seek out another computer for your upgrade. My two cents...hope I'm wrong.


When I get the SATA>USB adapter I'll see what happens. I don't think I'll need the jumpers with the adapter since the computer will be dealing with USB and not SATA like when I have the drive directly hooked up to the computer.

If that doesn't work I'll try it on my wife's laptop with the new adapter.


----------



## ajayabb

Well after having the 500GB WD My DVR Expander fail, I decided to take the advice of the folks on this forum, and remove the 500 GB Hard drive and use it to upgrade my Tivo HD. I bought the USB-Sata adapter installed WinMFS and upgraded my Tivo with my old 500GB drive, and everything is good. All within an hour


----------



## andrews777

Arggh!

I ordered the WD10EVVS last Friday (just before it was removed). 

Mine was manufactured on 19 Sept, a day earlier, but the timing sucks. I hoped to get this going before I wend out of town.

Brad


----------



## innocentfreak

andrews777 said:


> Arggh!
> 
> I ordered the WD10EVVS last Friday (just before it was removed).
> 
> Mine was manufactured on 19 Sept, a day earlier, but the timing sucks. I hoped to get this going before I wend out of town.
> 
> Brad


Some people had luck with them. I think only 2 of us so far had problems. You should post the drive info and whether it works so we can see if there is a pattern.

I also sent WD a support email this weekend but no response. Has anyone else heard back from them yet?


----------



## CraigK

My USB>SATA adapter arrived today. It seemed to work fine. I had none of the trouble I had running WinMFS before. That's the good news.

The truncated backup creation from my TiVo drive and restore/expand/supersize to the WD10EVVS seemed to go fine but I couldn't get past Welcome! Powering Up...

Tried everything over again in Safe Mode and again couldn't get past Welcome! Powering Up...

The Safe Mode Restore took significantly longer than the first try (5 min vs. 30 min), but otherwise seemed to go well. Both tbk backup files were the same size.

I guess I'll try a different brand/model of hard drive. The WD10EVVS was removed from this thread's recommended drive list the same day mine arrived from Amazon. The best thing for me to do about that is to just laugh at the timing.


----------



## innocentfreak

Can you also post the drive details so we can see if some type of pattern develops?

For example 
MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
Product of Thailand
DATE: 20 SEP 2009
DCM: DHNCHV2MGB
R/N: 701640
LBA: 1953525168


----------



## CraigK

innocentfreak said:


> Can you also post the drive details so we can see if some type of pattern develops?


I did in an earlier post, but here they are again.

MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
Product of Thailand
DATE: 20 SEP 2009
DCM: DHNCHV2MGB
R/N: 701640
LBA: 1953525168

Very similar to your example.


----------



## innocentfreak

CraigK said:


> I did in an earlier post, but here they are again.
> 
> MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
> Product of Thailand
> DATE: 20 SEP 2009
> DCM: DHNCHV2MGB
> R/N: 701640
> LBA: 1953525168
> 
> Very similar to your example.


Lol I didn't even realize I grabbed your post to use as an example.


----------



## stuck23235

bkdtv said:


> If your TiVo has 11.0d, neither a FiOS CableCard or the FiOS signal would cause the TivoHD to reboot.
> 
> The problem is likely with either your 1TB drive or the refurb hardware.
> 
> Did you put the original drive back in to see if the issue continues?


My Tivo does have 11.0d. I ensure it got 11.0d before I put in the 1TB drive.

I put the original drive in yesterday and last night was the first night in about a week without a reboot. I will leave it in for a bit and let the drive fill up and check. If I don't see any reboots I will run a scan on the drive to see if the drive is bad.

If this drive is bad, I hope WD will issue a credit toward a different type of drive because it sounds like the new ones are incompatible.


----------



## dswallow

It's really been awhile since I did anything to a TiVo receiver I owned like upgrade a drive. But last week I started having lots of issues on one of my Series 3 units with stuttering video and reboots so I knew what was coming. I removed the external storage I'd added to see if it was the internal or the external drive and it still happened so I ordered a drive to replace the internal one yesterday.

It arrived today, and this was the first time I've used the WinMFS utility -- what a wonderful improvement over how things used to be with Linux boot CDs. Of course I also remember back to long ago when we had run a couple different utilities, too -- and use our own boot CD's separate from all the utilities.

It took *maybe* 8 minutes to back up from the old/failing drive and restore to the new drive. I probably spent more time disconnecting all the cables, bringing it downstairs to the computer and opening up the case.

BTW, seeing all the nonsense going on with the latest WD10EVVS drive, I simply ordered a WD10EVDS from Amazon instead. $109.98 + $3.99 for overnight shipping. I'm not gonna quibble over $13, considering how much I used to spend on drives 1/4 the size. 

I plugged it all back in and it came right up -- well, as "right up" as a Series 3 can come, at least. It took a "few" minutes. All seems well so far.


----------



## richsadams

dswallow said:


> It's really been awhile since I did anything to a TiVo receiver I owned like upgrade a drive. But last week I started having lots of issues on one of my Series 3 units with stuttering video and reboots so I knew what was coming. I removed the external storage I'd added to see if it was the internal or the external drive and it still happened so I ordered a drive to replace the internal one yesterday.
> 
> It arrived today, and this was the first time I've used the WinMFS utility -- what a wonderful improvement over how things used to be with Linux boot CDs. Of course I also remember back to long ago when we had run a couple different utilities, too -- and use our own boot CD's separate from all the utilities.
> 
> It took *maybe* 8 minutes to back up from the old/failing drive and restore to the new drive. I probably spent more time disconnecting all the cables, bringing it downstairs to the computer and opening up the case.
> 
> BTW, seeing all the nonsense going on with the latest WD10EVVS drive, I simply ordered a WD10EVDS from Amazon instead. $109.98 + $3.99 for overnight shipping. I'm not gonna quibble over $13, considering how much I used to spend on drives 1/4 the size.
> 
> I plugged it all back in and it came right up -- well, as "right up" as a Series 3 can come, at least. It took a "few" minutes. All seems well so far.


Nice. :up: Yep, thinking back to the Hinsdale days...these kids today with their fancy winMFS...they got it made.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

richsadams said:


> Nice. :up: Yep, thinking back to the Hinsdale days...these kids today with their fancy winMFS...they got it made.


It was a fun time when the first reports of Bless TiVo, and company, were made available for us to use 

BTW Rich, have you heard back from WD? Sorry if I missed it.


----------



## richsadams

DCIFRTHS said:


> BTW Rich, have you heard back from WD? Sorry if I missed it.


I just received an e-mail from WD this a.m.:



> Thank you for contacting Western Digital Customer Service and Support. My name is Pablo R.
> 
> I apologize, the DCM is a indication that the drive will work with a MS-DOS old compatible mode, this is require for the drive in order to be use in several Linux or Solaris machine.
> 
> I hope that we have met your expectations today and that you are satisfied with our service. If you have any further questions, please reply to this email and we will be happy to assist you further.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Pablo R.
> Western Digital Service and Support


Of course they didn't address my question regarding any changes in production of the WD10EVVS (manufacture date specific, DCM codes, etc.). I wrote them back saying that we're using their drives in a Unix environment and need more info about the DCM as well as any production changes. Again, no high hopes we'll get anything definitive, but you never know!


----------



## innocentfreak

This was their reply to me...


> Thank you for contacting Western Digital Customer Service and Support.
> 
> I apologize, we are always updating the boards of our drives and the firmware, please bear in mind that we do not keep a track of this updates, not this devices have been made to work with a TIVO.
> 
> I hope that we have met your expectations today and that you are satisfied with our service. If you have any further questions, please reply to this email and we will be happy to assist you further.


I think he means note this device has been made to work with Tivo. I will definitely be writing back since this isn't the case.


----------



## jlib

> Thank you for contacting Western Digital Customer Service and Support. My name is Pablo R.
> 
> I apologize, the DCM is a indication that the drive will work with a MS-DOS old compatible mode, this is require for the drive in order to be use in several Linux or Solaris machine.


That's funny. I get the same kind of _non sequitur_, semi-literate responses whenever I write them about something. And from different people. Its almost as if it you are talking to a badly programmed expert system...


----------



## richsadams

Yep, here's the response I received this afternoon...



> Thank you for your reply.
> 
> I apologize sir, but DCM is a codec that we use internally to recognize which drives has this feature.
> 
> We are always updating our drives firmware and circuits boards, unfortunately, we do not have a list of this changes.
> 
> I hope that we have met your expectations today and that you are satisfied with our service. If you have any further questions, please reply to this email and we will be happy to assist you further.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Pablo R.
> Western Digital Service and Support


I didn't have great hopes of finding out anything really relevant, but I thought I'd try as well. Looks like we're all getting about the same blank stare from someone without the ability to help. I expanded on my original inquiry and asked that it be forwarded to the next level. Doubt that will happen or that if it does they'll say much of anything else, but again, you never know.


----------



## richsadams

innocentfreak said:


> This was their reply to me...
> 
> I think he means note this device has been made to work with Tivo. I will definitely be writing back since this isn't the case.


Who signed your e-mail? Just wondering if my friend "Pablo" is answering everyone's e-mail. Thanks for the follow-up BTW. :up:


----------



## innocentfreak

Yeah it was Pablo R also. I am tempted to call support to see if they are any help but not sure when I will have time.

Does anyone have experience with Amazon RMAs? I am debating on just keeping the drive if I am going to lose my gift certificate and have to pay shipping. I will eventually order the EVDS drive or Seagate if it doesn't work.

Also I was wondering. Did anyone try with MFSlive instead of WinMFS just in case? 
I don't have a second computer right now and I don't know Linux enough to mess with it right now. I have had luck in the past using it but had a second PC to generate the lines for me.


----------



## richsadams

innocentfreak said:


> Yeah it was Pablo R also. I am tempted to call support to see if they are any help but not sure when I will have time.
> 
> Does anyone have experience with Amazon RMAs? I am debating on just keeping the drive if I am going to lose my gift certificate and have to pay shipping. I will eventually order the EVDS drive or Seagate if it doesn't work.


I wonder if there is really a "Pablo R." or is _everyone_ that answers support e-mails coincidentally named "Pablo R."? 

Amazon has always been great about RMA's. When you go through the online return process you just need to tell them that it's defective...which is a strict sense it is because it doesn't work for you. They'll give you a pre-paid shipping label so there's no shipping charge. If you just say that you don't want it, they'll ask you to pay return shipping. You can get 100% credit on whatever card you used within 30 days of purchase.


----------



## innocentfreak

Good to know. Thanks. I am RMAing it today since it doesn't look like we are getting anywhere with WD or will anytime soon.


----------



## Len McRiddles

So what is the next best drive to use in your opinion?


----------



## eaayoung

Was in Staples looking for a DVD burner and saw where they are carrying the Antec M-1 external case. Price was around $52.00.


----------



## innocentfreak

Len McRiddles said:


> So what is the next best drive to use in your opinion?


Personally I am probably just going to go with the EVDS version from Amazon. It is the same drive with a larger buffer so I just hope it hasn't been upgraded the same way. It is only $10 more so not a huge loss.


----------



## richsadams

eaayoung said:


> Was in Staples looking for a DVD burner and saw where they are carrying the Antec M-1 external case. Price was around $52.00.


That's about the going rate right now...haven't seen any on sale for a while. At one time they came down to $19.99 at Amazon and I've seen them down around $25, but for now they seem to be stuck at the $50 mark. Very nice enclosure, I'm using one with a backup drive. There are alternatives though...list on the first post of the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ.


----------



## richsadams

Len McRiddles said:


> So what is the next best drive to use in your opinion?


The WD10EVDS is popular, but most any of the recommended drives on the first post are worthy.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

richsadams said:


> I just received an e-mail from WD this a.m.:
> 
> Of course they didn't address my question regarding any changes in production of the WD10EVVS (manufacture date specific, DCM codes, etc.). I wrote them back saying that we're using their drives in a Unix environment and need more info about the DCM as well as any production changes. Again, no high hopes we'll get anything definitive, but you never know!


From searching, I have found a different explanation as to what DCM is. It stated that DCM contains a list of components used in the HD.

Anyone know for sure?


----------



## bicker

richsadams said:


> I wonder if there is really a "Pablo R." or is _everyone_ that answers support e-mails coincidentally named "Pablo R."?


Pablo R.
Publo Re
Publoc Rel
Public Rela
Public Relations


----------



## richsadams

DCIFRTHS said:


> From searching, I have found a different explanation as to what DCM is. It stated that DCM contains a list of components used in the HD.
> 
> Anyone know for sure?


That's my understanding as well...particularly the fifth and sixth letters which indicate the heads that are used. I've also read that it indicates which logic board it has and I saw another post saying that it also includes the firmware verison...but then I saw another post that said it does not. It's very important to folks that are rebuilding broken hard drives. But I have yet to find a breakdown of the actual code. For our purposes, I have no idea if it's meaningful. The manufacture date seems to have as much to do with it as anything. If it does turn out something has been changed it'll be a surprise as bkdtv pointed out, the WD10EVVS is the very same drive that TiVo uses.


----------



## dswallow

innocentfreak said:


> Personally I am probably just going to go with the EVDS version from Amazon. It is the same drive with a larger buffer so I just hope it hasn't been upgraded the same way. It is only $10 more so not a huge loss.


As I mentioned a handful of posts above yours, that's the drive I just bought... from Amazon... and had no trouble with using.


----------



## lew

Most of us are buying OEM drives, without a manual or instructions.

There is jumper to enable (PUIS) power up in standby. Are people enabling this feature? It sounds like the kind of setting tivo might not like.

edit to add this drive can have "issues" with VIA or SIS serial ATA controllers. I don't know what controller tivo uses. Is it possible there is a compatability issue with your PC which results in a corrupt software installation with winMFS.
http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc...TIuMjk2JnBfY3Y9JnBfcGFnZT0x&p_li=&p_topview=1

I don't know if this link will work. It's answer 1337 in the Knowledge Base.

One solution is to


> To lock the drive at 150 MB/s data transfer rate, install a jumper shunt on pins OPT1, shown in the picture below.


I'll defer to the experts.


----------



## vasilemj

I'm sure it's been stated a number of times in this thread but for the beneift of those new readers who may immediately jump to the end of this thread, I can't emphasize enough how important it is to temporarily disable your anti-virus software when using WinMFS to upgrade your TiVo drive.

I purchased a WD10EVDS to upgrade my TiVo yesterday and I thought things had gone smoothly until I installed the drive back into the TiVo. At this point I noticed that the machine rebooted inself while powering up and after it finally came to, when I pressed the TiVo button, my menus were merely overlayed over a live video feed (no background, just text). Very strange. My TiVo backup file was about 233MB.

When I went through the process a second time and finally turned off my anti-virus, everything worked perfectly. For what it's worth, my backup file was double the size of my initial attempt.

Hope this helps alleviate any stress that new upgraders may experience.


----------



## cchenning

The good news is that my TIVO HD now has a 1TB drive in it, it is working, and I am kinda happy! The bad news is I have a few more gray hairs from getting it to that point. 

As great as this site is, sometimes its really hard to get there from here..

I started my research here to figure out what drive to buy. It was a piece of cake, many, many thanks to that perennial poster RICHSADAMS!! I was able to pick up one of his recommended 1TB drives from Amazon for $95, free shipping, and I got it in 3 days.

Now the next hurdle, how do I do the upgrade? Back to do research. Should I use Win MFS or MFS Live? Hmmmmm, do I mess with Linux, or do I stay safe and sound with Windows? No brainer, right? So I download Win MFS, pop open my PC and realize I dont have enough SATA cables or power connections to run three drives at once. Maybe I can use the cable from my Tivo (no luck there!)?

I remember reading in one of the posts, that I could use my external USB/SATA drive enclosure. That could handle one drive, all I would need is one SATA cable (for $95, you dont get a drive w/cable from Amazon. Yea I know, thats what OEM means.). Im still short one SATA cable. What are my choices? Order one for $6 from Cables R Us, ask the nice IT guy at work if I can borrow one, or borrow one myself from that empty office at work with the PC sitting there doing nothing. I opt to ask the nice IT guy, it still costs be $6 (I agree to buy him lunch), but I dont have to wait for it to be delivered (and Ill probably never need/use it again).

So now I am set and ready to go. I plan a night where I can stand not to watch/record any HD TV (Tivo is my only set top box for FIOS), more important, a night where my wife wont mind sitting in the bedroom or kitchen to watch TV. After dinner, I crack open my Tivo to extract the drive (cursing the SATA/power cable), do the same to my PC and prepare to get to work. I place the good Tivo drive in the external USB enclosure, plug my loaner SATA cable into the motherboard/new drive, and connect the remaining power connector to the new drive. I am almost ready to go!!!

I power up my PC, disable my virus software (see, I do read the instructions), and just to be safe, unplug the network cable. I plug in my 8GB USB drive (I downloaded the WinMFS.zip at work and saved it there, please dont tell my boss!). I extracted the EXE to the USB drive and double-clicked on the extracted app, expecting it to install. It does not install, it just runs, that makes it cleaner (I thought). I see the "Tivo" drives, I read the directions (thanks again Rich), I do the truncated backup, I start the copy and why is taking so long? ETA 53:12:23, is that hours or days??? It must be doing something, the LED on the USB drive keeps flashing. Youve got to be kidding me, right? This must be like other windows apps where it jumps from 53 hours to 53 minutes, then back to 53 hours, then back to 52 minutes, right? I let it run for two hours, praying, no such luck. The bottleneck must be the drive in the external enclosure? Do I let this run all night and hope its done in time to record David Letterman tomorrow night? Theres that Cancel button, do I dare click it? Once I cancel, what are my options?

Needless to say I click Cancel, now what do I do, what are my options, what can I do tonight? After some hemming and hawing I decide to byte the bullet and use MFS Live, I have enough cables and power connectors. I disconnect/reconnect everything, download the CD image, create the boot CD, print out the directions from mfslive.org (thanks Spike!). I am ready to go (again).

I disconnect my internal HD, plug in the Tivo drive and do a test boot figuring I cant screw that up. I use Shift-PageUp keys and look for hdc, hdd, sda and sdb device names on screen to determine where drives are mounted.. I am good to go, I see sda is a 160GB drive. I shut it all down, add the new drive, boot up again, check to see that sda is still the 160GB drive and sdb is the 1TB drive, I am golden!

I type backup -qTao - /dev/sda | restore -s 128 -r 4 -xzpi - /dev/sdb , time to hit Enter. I really dont want to hit it, but I finally do. Of course I got the string wrong, missing the spaces in front of dev. I insert the spaces and hit Enter again, Houston, we have lift-off!!. Wow, I am a Linux expert! Better yet, its going to be done in less than an hour, can it be? I might be able to record Letterman tonight!

So Im watching the countdown of the backup/restore and I suddenly think, What about supersize?. Its already close to my bedtime, I cant do any research as my PC is tied up in Linux. Then I thought, maybe when Im done, I can use WinMFS to do the supersize? So the restore finishes, everything looks good! I disconnect/reconnect everything and I do a search on the forums for super size (do you have any idea how many posts reference super size?). I figure its worth a shot, let me try Win MFS, so I shutdown the PC, plug in the new 1 TB drive, and power up. I plug in my 8GB USB drive to run Win MFS, and the system responds, Drive is not formatted, do you want to format?

WTF? I am beaten, my USB drive is toast, and Letterman starts in 20 minutes. I give up, grab the new drive, and head back to the pile of Tivo guts spread out on the kitchen table to the sound of when are you coming to bed? Its a matter of minutes to put it all back together, and a few more to get it connected to the TV. Now the moment of truth, the TV is on, I connect the power to the Tivo, Powering up, Just a Few Minutes More, theres Rock Hudson, CSI, TeleTubbies, Im almost there! Theres my Now Playing list intact, my wife will be able to replay Dancing with the Stars one more time and complain about the judging! I go to Settings, and there it is, I now have 147 hours of HD recording, I guess I do need to supersize to get the extra 10 hours.
I did not like Lettermans monolog that night!

How do I super size my drive now? _Please dont tell me the answer appears elsewhere. _ I just wish I had the time to read all of the postings.

Wishin' I was fishin'!


----------



## innocentfreak

cchenning said:


> How do I super size my drive now? _Please dont tell me the answer appears elsewhere. _ I just wish I had the time to read all of the postings.
> 
> Wishin' I was fishin'!


Just connect the upgraded drive to the PC again and select the drive under WinMFS and turn supersize on. That's it. If you have long enough cables you just need to remove the cover of the Tivo and not actually remove the drive completely.


----------



## hearncl

Over the last week I upgraded the drives of both a TiVo HD and a TiVo S3 to 1 TB, using WinMFS. As part of the process I created backups of the original drives (both 750 GB). My understanding is that these backups contain the system software, settings, season pass list, etc., but not recorded programs. I found that the backup file (*.tbk) size for the HD was 466 MB, while the backup file size for the S3 was 292 MB.

The HD and S3 had similar settings and season pass lists. A difference is that the S3 had two cablecards and the HD a single multistream card.

Is there an obvious reason why the S3 had a considerably smaller backup file size than the HD?


----------



## richsadams

cchenning said:


> The good news is that my TIVO HD now has a 1TB drive in it, it is working, and I am kinda happy!


Phew! Congratulations and welcome to the club. Nice little story and much like a lot (most) of us have gone through at one time or another. It gets easier the more often you do it. Whaddya mean you'll never do it again!  

As Innocent mentioned, just connect your new hard drive to your PC, fire up winMFS and click on Tools > supersize (I think that's where it is...been a while now). Restart TiVo and you should be golden.

If I had a nickel for every time my wife asked when I was coming to bed I'd be rich, rich, rich!

BTW, thanks for the kind words but kudos and accolades go to bkdtv for capturing all of the critical info and Spike (the author of the MFS upgrade programs) for the genius that he is.

Oh, and I consider myself more of an annual than a perennial.


----------



## lew

THIS ONE WORKS.

MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
Product of Thailand
DATE: 13 AUG 2009
DCM: HARCNV2CHB
R/N: 701640
LBA: 1953525168


----------



## richsadams

lew said:


> THIS ONE WORKS.
> 
> MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
> Product of Thailand
> DATE: 13 AUG 2009
> DCM: HARCNV2CHB
> R/N: 701640
> LBA: 1953525168


Thanks for that. Looks like the Sept 20 manufacture date is crucial (perhaps after that?  ).


----------



## innocentfreak

richsadams said:


> Thanks for that. Looks like the Sept 20 manufacture date is crucial (perhaps after that?  ).


Actually the other thing I noticed is the DCM drives that start with a D don't work, but the ones that start with a H did work including the one from Sept,2009.


----------



## richsadams

innocentfreak said:


> Actually the other thing I noticed is the DCM drives that start with a D don't work, but the ones that start with a H did work including the one from Sept,2009.


Good observation. Wonder what each DCM character stands for (firmware, logic board )? I asked WD but of course that was ignored by "Pablo".

I haven't heard anything more from WD after asking that my inquiry be "kicked upstairs". We'll see if they respond to anything else.


----------



## hearncl

innocentfreak said:


> Actually the other thing I noticed is the DCM drives that start with a D don't work, but the ones that start with a H did work including the one from Sept,2009.


But my DARCHV2MBB, Sept. 20, drive worked (post #3735).


----------



## innocentfreak

I missed that post then or misread it when I was going through the posts.


----------



## stuck23235

MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
Product of Thailand
DATE: 21 JUL 2009
DCM: DHNCHV2MAB
R/N: 701640
LBA: 1953525168

It looks like mine is just some bad sectors as I have not seen a reboot in a couple of days with the original drive. It worked ok for almost 1 month. I was up over 400 GB with a few games recorded and that is when the fun started.


----------



## wgw

I've been waiting since July for the wd15evds. About 2 months ago I ordered it from provantage for about $145, but it never shipped. I cancelled that order last week when I saw that they reduced the price to $130. This morning, I almost reordered from provantage for $130, but then I saw that *Beachaudio.com had 60 wd15evds in stock as of 10/15*, so I reordered my 2 drives from beachaudio. Apparently no one else has ordered it in the past 12 hours. There are still 58 left. I just talked to them a few minutes ago and they said my drives already shipped. The price at beachaudio is currently $142.99 and they have free shipping.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

richsadams said:


> That's my understanding as well...particularly the fifth and sixth letters which indicate the heads that are used. I've also read that it indicates which logic board it has and I saw another post saying that it also includes the firmware verison...but then I saw another post that said it does not. It's very important to folks that are rebuilding broken hard drives. But I have yet to find a breakdown of the actual code. For our purposes, I have no idea if it's meaningful. The manufacture date seems to have as much to do with it as anything. If it does turn out something has been changed it'll be a surprise as bkdtv pointed out, the WD10EVVS is the very same drive that TiVo uses.


Unless TiVo has changed the model of HD they use as of Sept 20...

On the other hand, if TiVo does use this "newer" HD, wouldn't it be possible that they could modify their code (OS or PROM) to work with the newer, apparently different, WD10EVVSWD? Of course end users wouldn't see this until TiVo's stock of the pre-Sept 20 drives runs low.

It would be great, although unlikely, if anyone could verify that the stock TiVo has the WD10EVVS with a drive manufacture date of Sept. 20 or later, and the TiVo software version. Is there an easy way to determine the PROM version?


----------



## MitchV

FWIW, I recently ordered an EVVS from Buy.com earlier in the week. The drive I received is as follows:

MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
Product of Thailand
DATE: 19 SEP 2009
DCM: HBNCNV2MGB
R/N: 701640
LBA: 1953525168

This seems to have beaten the SEPT 20 date by a single day... the site says they still have stock.

Does it sound like this version of the drive will work? I haven't upgraded my TiVo and probably won't upgrade for a while, so unfortunately I can't report success or failure.

Thanks!


----------



## Wetsprocket625

MitchV said:


> FWIW, I recently ordered an EVVS from Buy.com earlier in the week. The drive I received is as follows:
> 
> MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
> Product of Thailand
> DATE: 19 SEP 2009
> DCM: HBNCNV2MGB
> R/N: 701640
> LBA: 1953525168
> 
> This seems to have beaten the SEPT 20 date by a single day... the site says they still have stock.
> 
> Does it sound like this version of the drive will work? I haven't upgraded my TiVo and probably won't upgrade for a while, so unfortunately I can't report success or failure.
> 
> Thanks!


I also received one from buy.com yesterday Sep 19 DCM DANCHV2MAB EVVS. So far it seems to be working good. Used WinMFS copy. TivoHD


----------



## CraigK

I ordered a WD10EVDS and tried WinMFS on my TiVo HD tonight using the SATA>USB cable.

Quite a different result from last weekend's attempt with the EVVS.

Before...










After...



















*Thanks to everyone here for the help especially bkdtv for the FAQ and or course spike for WinMFS.*


----------



## roytwo

Well couldn't get my WD10EVVS to work so ordered a Seagate Pipeline from provantage and went that direction.

Got a :

ST31000322CS
P/N9GW134-305
Firmware SC13
Date Code 10073
Site Code TK

Turned off the AV, hooked up with a USB connection 30 min later powered up my S3 . 55 seconds at the stand By..Powering Up screen and success. 

So my procedure was sound but the WD10EVVS just wouldn't take. Buyer beware.


----------



## bkdtv

For now, I think it's best to avoid the Western Digital WD10EVVS. Many of those drives manufactured on/after September 20 don't appear to be compatible with the TiVo.

If you've already received a WD10EVVS with a manufacture date *prior* to Sept 20, you should be fine.

I've linked several vendors for the WD10EVDS and Seagate ST31000322CS in the first post.


----------



## tomlavelle

I ordered a WD10EVVS from buy.com last week; arrived Wednesday, I just tried to upgrade today Saturday. No joy - Tivo boots to the rainbow 'powering up' screen but never gets past that. I hear the drive spin up and the heads move a little when I put the power to the Tivo but after that it's pretty quiet. 

MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
Product of Thailand
DATE: 19 SEP 2009
DCM: DANCHV2MGB
R/N: 701640
LBA: 1953525168

Note that the first five characters of the DCM are different than MitchV's, which was sourced from buy.com at about the same time.

I used WinMFS, flipped supersize on. MFSCopy from original 250GB disk to this 1TB disk took a couple hours, WinMFS reported that everything went fine. 

I did not turn OneCare anti-virus off. 

I have not jumpered the drive in any way.

Any ideas?!? I'm frustrated because I've upgraded Series3 Tivos in the past without issue, my primary Tivo has a failing (Seagate 750GB) disk and I need to get this newly acquired Series3 working ASAP.

Thanks,
Tom


----------



## bkdtv

Try a truncated backup and restore -- rather than mfscopy -- from Windows safe mode (i.e. without antivirus).

If that doesn't work, then it sounds like you got one of the new WD10EVVS drives that just isn't compatible. Keep us posted on how it goes.

Here some alternatives:

Seagate ST31000322CS @ Provantage.com
Seagate ST31000322CS @ TheNerds.net
Seagate ST31000322CS @ PC Connection
Seagate ST31000322CS @ Amazon.com

Western Digital WD10EVDS @ Amazon
Western Digital WD10EVDS @ Buy.com
Western Digital WD10EVDS @ TheNerds.net
Western Digital WD10EVDS @ CDW


----------



## bowlingblogger

hearncl said:


> But my DARCHV2MBB, Sept. 20, drive worked (post #3735).


It appears I have a drive like hearncl's (DCM beginning w/"D") and it also worked in my TivoHD. I ordered it on Sept. 30 from Amazon. I just opened the case and pulled the information listed on my drive:

MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
Product of Thailand
DATE: 20 SEP 2009
DCM: DARCNV2MGB
R/N: 701640
LBA: 1953525168

As I was composing this message I was allowing the Tivo power back up and decided to try and do a Kickstart 54, but it got stuck in "Powering Up" mode. I unplugged the power cord, plugged it back in, and this time got to the "Just a Few Minutes More Screen." But now it just transitioned to a GSOD, the same one that is triggered by a Kickstart 57. I don't get it...all I did was pull the case off and put it back on!

UPDATE: The Tivo stayed on the GSOD for about an hour and restarted, freezing on the "Powering Up" screen. After about 15 minutes I unplugged it and plugged it back in and it booted up normally. But now I'm worried about the drive--seems there may be a problem with sectors or something. Should I run Kickstart 54 overnight and see if it fails any tests? If so, should I RMA it and get a drive from the approved list?


----------



## jlib

bowlingblogger said:


> ...The Tivo stayed on the GSOD for about an hour and restarted, freezing on the "Powering Up" screen. After about 15 minutes I unplugged it and plugged it back in and it booted up normally. But now I'm worried about the drive--seems there may be a problem with sectors or something. Should I run Kickstart 54 overnight and see if it fails any tests? If so, should I RMA it and get a drive from the approved list?


If you reboot it multiple times does it consistently come up properly now.?


----------



## moscovitzd

wgw said:


> I've been waiting since July for the wd15evds. About 2 months ago I ordered it from provantage for about $145, but it never shipped. I cancelled that order last week when I saw that they reduced the price to $130. This morning, I almost reordered from provantage for $130, but then I saw that *Beachaudio.com had 60 wd15evds in stock as of 10/15*, so I reordered my 2 drives from beachaudio. Apparently no one else has ordered it in the past 12 hours. There are still 58 left. I just talked to them a few minutes ago and they said my drives already shipped. The price at beachaudio is currently $142.99 and they have free shipping.


Hi WGW.... I'm interested in getting a few WD15EVDS drives for my Tivo HDs. Can you please let me know how it works for you?

Thanks,
Dave


----------



## bowlingblogger

jlib said:


> If you reboot it multiple times does it consistently come up properly now.?


Thanks for the suggestion...it has been working since I unplugged it and plugged it back in about two-and-a-half hours ago. My wife is watching Netflix now so there's no telling when I'll have a chance to reboot it again (she was already peeved that it wasn't working when she got up)! I will run the full SMART test overnight and see if it passes all the tests and post back with the results.


----------



## tomlavelle

bkdtv said:


> Try a truncated backup and restore -- rather than mfscopy -- from Windows safe mode (i.e. without antivirus).
> 
> If that doesn't work, then it sounds like you got one of the new WD10EVVS drives that just isn't compatible. Keep us posted on how it goes.
> 
> Here some alternatives:
> 
> /QUOTE]
> 
> It's still not getting past the powering up screen, after trying the truncated restore/backup approach with WinMFS on Windows Vista in safe mode.
> 
> Not sure what to do at this point other than buy a different drive. I also have a couple WD10EACS 1TB drives lying around, I may try one of those though I recall people saying that they wouldn't work in the Series3.
> 
> Anybody ever play with jumpers to any level of success? I recall that the Series3 can't move data faster than 1.5GB anyway. It's easy enough for me to test anyway, I will try that next.


----------



## richsadams

tomlavelle said:


> tomlavelle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I also have a couple WD10EACS 1TB drives lying around, I may try one of those though I recall people saying that they wouldn't work in the Series3.
> 
> 
> 
> The WD10EACS will work in a Series3 but the problem is that it will not boot up from a menu restart or a software upgrade. If you can live with that (knowing that after TiVo forces an upgrade that it won't do anything until you conduct a hard reboot - pull the power cord and plug it back in) it'll work.
> 
> I still think using any sort of jumpers on any drive is going to cause you problems when it comes to upgrading TiVo. But best of luck!
Click to expand...


----------



## bowlingblogger

richsadams said:


> tomlavelle said:
> 
> 
> 
> The WD10EACS will work in a Series3 but the problem is that it will not boot up from a menu restart or a software upgrade.
> 
> 
> 
> It appears my WD10EVVS, which I thought was working fine, is also exhibiting the soft reboot problem. I am going to RMA it and get a WD10EVDS. Thanks to all of you for figuring out the unfortunate changes made to this drive and a good alternative!
Click to expand...


----------



## richsadams

bowlingblogger said:


> It appears my WD10EVVS, which I thought was working fine, is also exhibiting the soft reboot problem.


Thanks for keeping us updated. :up:

Now that's interesting - on two counts. That the drive actually worked (w/manufacture date of Sep 20, 2009) and AFAIK it's the first soft reboot problem anyone has posted for the WD10EVVS. Here's bowlingblogger's drive specs:

MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
Product of Thailand
DATE: 20 SEP 2009
DCM: DARCNV2MGB
R/N: 701640
LBA: 1953525168

Anyone else run into the soft reboot problem with their WD10EVVS?

As mentioned earlier it appears that this is a repeat of the WD10EADS which initially worked with Series3's and TiVo HD's, but due to an unknown production change suddenly exhibited the soft reboot issue in Series3's. 

Staying away from the WD10EVVS is certainly wise advice at this time (maybe forever). The WD10EVDS should do well going forward. Hopefully WD will leave well enough alone!

Oh, and for those playing along, I never did hear back from WD after I asked them for some more information after their second e-mail revealed nothing.


----------



## wgw

moscovitzd said:


> Hi WGW.... I'm interested in getting a few WD15EVDS drives for my Tivo HDs. Can you please let me know how it works for you?
> 
> Thanks,
> Dave


You bet. Drive will arrive tomorrow. But my diagnostic computer is so old it will take at least 24 hours to do an extended read test followed by a full write test. I always do complete diags on new drives before using them. I also might have to wait until late Friday night before I can pull the 1TB drive out of my Tivo and do the transfer. Will report results ASAP though.


----------



## DaveL1981

Just put a WD10EVDS in my Australian TiVo and ran the supersize option.

Now my TiVo reports a recording capacity of "up to 218 hours of HD".

Does anyone know why it would be 218 rather than 157 hours like most people get?


----------



## bkdtv

DaveL1981 said:


> Just put a WD10EVDS in my Australian TiVo and ran the supersize option.
> 
> Now my TiVo reports a recording capacity of "up to 218 hours of HD".
> 
> Does anyone know why it would be 218 rather than 157 hours like most people get?


TiVo evidently uses a different calculation to estimate capacity on the Australian DVRs. That would make sense if Australian broadcasters typically use lower bitrates for their HD.


----------



## bowlingblogger

richsadams said:


> Now that's interesting - on two counts. That the drive actually worked (w/manufacture date of Sep 20, 2009) and AFAIK it's the first soft reboot problem anyone has posted for the WD10EVVS.


Hmm, I don't like being unique here in the hardware world! I initially thought that I did something when I pulled the case off to get the drive info to post in this thread, but now I'm thinking that it had the problem from the beginning and I just didn't notice it (I don't remember restarting from the menu since I installed it). I'm really glad I pulled the case off, because otherwise I might not have figured this out until it was too late to RMA it. The WD10EVVS passed all of the SMART tests I ran overnight, but I've already ordered the WD10EVDS, so we'll see how that goes. When I get it I'll run a full diagnostic. wgw (or anyone else who's done this), is WD Lifeguard the best way to go about this?


----------



## dswallow

DaveL1981 said:


> Just put a WD10EVDS in my Australian TiVo and ran the supersize option.
> 
> Now my TiVo reports a recording capacity of "up to 218 hours of HD".
> 
> Does anyone know why it would be 218 rather than 157 hours like most people get?


Assuming you did use the Australian version of WinMFS I guess what it reports is correct... as mentioned, different tyical bitrates and/or resolutions used in the calculation probably factors in here.

And apparently 1440x1080 is more typical for 1080i broadcasts in Autralia, so 1920/1440*157 = 209... pretty close to your 218.


----------



## CraigK

richsadams said:


> Staying away from the WD10EVVS is certainly wise advice at this time (maybe forever). The WD10EVDS should do well going forward. Hopefully WD will leave well enough alone!


I still have to upgrade my wife's TiVo HD. I think I'll use a Seagate ST31000322CS this time. It would be just my luck that WD would decide to do a change on the EVDS like they did on the EVVS and I'd get one of the first new drives.


----------



## lew

We don't know if WD changed something that makes current drives incompatible with tivo or if we're just looking at a bad bunch of drives.

I wonder if WD is putting the drives into some kind of power saving mode which tivo doesn't recognize. If true the issue may occur with other WD green drives.


----------



## KevinG

Just a point of reference:

I purchased (from ebay) one of these:

FILEMATE 3.5" USB 2.0 eSATA External SATA HDD Enclosure

http://cgi.ebay.com/FILEMATE-3-5-US...ge_Internal?hash=item3ca5269a7e#ht_5157wt_940

(although I paid $23.99)

It arrived yesterday, I dropped an old unused WD 500 gig drive in, and plugged it into my Series 3.

The included eSata cable works fine, and all is well. I'll likely order another one for my other series 3.


----------



## CraigK

lew said:


> We don't know if WD changed something that makes current drives incompatible with tivo or if we're just looking at a bad bunch of drives.


That's true. Pablo hasn't been very forthcoming.


----------



## hearncl

richsadams said:


> Thanks for keeping us updated. :up:
> 
> Now that's interesting - on two counts. That the drive actually worked (w/manufacture date of Sep 20, 2009) and AFAIK it's the first soft reboot problem anyone has posted for the WD10EVVS. Here's bowlingblogger's drive specs:
> 
> MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
> Product of Thailand
> DATE: 20 SEP 2009
> DCM: DARCNV2MGB
> R/N: 701640
> LBA: 1953525168
> 
> Anyone else run into the soft reboot problem with their WD10EVVS?


Does restarting from the TiVo menus count as a soft reboot? As I posted earlier (post #3735), my Sept. 20 WD10EVVS worked fine in a TiVo HD. It had not been restarted since then, so I just tried restarting from the menu. It booted up as before.

I also needed to upgrade a Series 3, and given the problems with some WD10EVVS's, I used the Seagate ST31000322CS. It worked fine in the Series 3.


----------



## richsadams

lew said:


> We don't know if WD changed something that makes current drives incompatible with tivo or if we're just looking at a bad bunch of drives.
> 
> I wonder if WD is putting the drives into some kind of power saving mode which tivo doesn't recognize. If true the issue may occur with other WD green drives.


It doesn't seem that it's a global problem with WD GP drives because other models (to date) are not exhibiting the problem of not booting up entirely. In addition power saving mode generally occurs when a drive is inactive for a pre-determined amount of time. Since TiVo drives are active 24/7 it shouldn't be an issue even if the WD drives employed that option. Not saying that problems with other drives (WD or others) won't occur in the future, but it doesn't seem likely that the problem is anything more than a production change or as you mentioned possibly a batch of bad drives (although if they are "bad" it doesn't seem likely that they would work in PC's either which they apparently do). Still a mystery.


----------



## richsadams

KevinG said:


> Just a point of reference:
> 
> I purchased (from ebay) one of these:
> 
> FILEMATE 3.5" USB 2.0 eSATA External SATA HDD Enclosure
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/FILEMATE-3-5-US...ge_Internal?hash=item3ca5269a7e#ht_5157wt_940
> 
> (although I paid $23.99)
> 
> It arrived yesterday, I dropped an old unused WD 500 gig drive in, and plugged it into my Series 3.
> 
> The included eSata cable works fine, and all is well. I'll likely order another one for my other series 3.


Nice find. Can you let us know how warm the enclosure gets?


----------



## richsadams

hearncl said:


> Does restarting from the TiVo menus count as a soft reboot? As I posted earlier (post #3735), my Sept. 20 WD10EVVS worked fine in a TiVo HD. It had not been restarted since then, so I just tried restarting from the menu. It booted up as before.
> 
> I also needed to upgrade a Series 3, and given the problems with some WD10EVVS's, I used the Seagate ST31000322CS. It worked fine in the Series 3.


Yes, restarting TiVo via the menu option is considered a "soft reboot" (a "hard reboot" is pulling the power plug). The issue has been with Series3's only though...TiVo HD's have never had a soft reboot problem.

Good to know the Seagate is working well. :up:


----------



## KevinG

richsadams said:


> Nice find. Can you let us know how warm the enclosure gets?


First thing I did this morning was feel it...It was *barely* above room temperature. I'd like to run it a bit longer to see if that is consistent though. I have it standing vertically (as it is meant to be) next to my tivo in an entertainment center (with an open front, so pretty good air circulation).

-Kevin


----------



## richsadams

KevinG said:


> First thing I did this morning was feel it...It was *barely* above room temperature. I'd like to run it a bit longer to see if that is consistent though. I have it standing vertically (as it is meant to be) next to my tivo in an entertainment center (with an open front, so pretty good air circulation).
> 
> -Kevin


Sweet! A 1TB drive would probably run slightly hotter, but it sounds like the enclosure does a good job dissipating heat. :up:


----------



## KevinG

richsadams said:


> Sweet! A 1TB drive would probably run slightly hotter, but it sounds like the enclosure does a good job dissipating heat. :up:


Yes, that could be the case.

Last evening I disconnected the drive from the Tivo, attached it via USB to my PC and set the accoustic settings (wife heard it the previous night...it's on the Series 3 in the bedroom). After that, it was much quieter...but it is transfering some vibration to the glass shelf that it is on...so I'll look into a way to isolate that.

In summary, though, it is *not* getting anywhere near what I would describe as "hot". Just mildly warm. It's a keeper for sure...

I'm likely to get another one, even though the price went up slightly.

-Kevin


----------



## moxie1617

KevinG said:


> ...but it is transfering some vibration to the glass shelf that it is on...so I'll look into a way to isolate that.
> 
> -Kevin


Quick and dirty fix until you find a more elegant solution is bubble wrap under the drive.


----------



## dswallow

moxie1617 said:


> Quick and dirty fix until you find a more elegant solution is bubble wrap under the drive.


A classic style mouse pad would work, too.


----------



## richsadams

dswallow said:


> A classic style mouse pad would work, too.


+1 :up:


----------



## armstrr

i got a prepared 2tb hard drive off of ebay for my tivoHD. it came with 2 pages of data...apparantly test data. popped it in and the tivo shows 318hrs. 

the drive was a wd20eads dated sept 09. it has been running for about a week with no problem.

i'm curious what some of these "retailers" are doing differently and why there is little to no talk of 2tb single hard drive solutions for tivos.


----------



## bkdtv

armstrr said:


> i'm curious what some of these "retailers" are doing differently and why there is little to no talk of 2tb single hard drive solutions for tivos.


From the mfslive.org forums:



spike said:


> Currently, I know 4 ways to make drive > 1.1 TB to work on current S3 and THD.
> 
> 
> Prom mod your S3 or THD and use Jamie's kernel patch. (http://www.************.com/forum/showt ... post299520) credit goes to Jamie
> 
> mknod to add more devices /dev/hda17 /dev/had18 ... But next software update will wipe it out and cause problems (viewtopic.php?f=11&t=257&p=5338&hilit=hda17#p5338) credit goes to ciper
> 
> Create app/media partitions /dev/hda14 /dev/hda15 /dev/hda16 ... *eBay dude*
> As long as each of those three partitions fall within 1TiB you can do whatever you want and it's fairly easy to do if you are familiar with mfstools source code and bit of mod.
> 
> modify existing mfs media partitions 11, 13. no one so far.
> This is fairly hard to do since you have to do all sorts inode adjustments but will be plug and play eSATA drive compatible.


Even if someone were to create a truncated image using one of these 2TB drives (would you volunteer?), I'm not sure WinMFS could restore it.


----------



## richsadams

armstrr said:


> i got a prepared 2tb hard drive off of ebay for my tivoHD. it came with 2 pages of data...apparantly test data. popped it in and the tivo shows 318hrs.
> 
> the drive was a wd20eads dated sept 09. it has been running for about a week with no problem.
> 
> i'm curious what some of these "retailers" are doing differently and why there is little to no talk of 2tb single hard drive solutions for tivos.


There are some posts about the ebay 2TB drives. (A search should turn them up.) A few others are also using them successfully.

A DIY 2TB upgrade is quite complicated requiring extensive hand coding to expand and create new partitions and cannot be accomplished by using the winMFS or MFSLive programs commonly referred to here so there's not much talk about it. However for those wanting a 2TB "turn-key" alternative for their TiVo HD or HDXL, it seems like a good option.

EDIT: Just saw bkdtv's post after I posted...what he said.


----------



## wgw

The WD15EVDS does not appear to be compatible with the Series 3 (648). I performed full read/write diags on the new drive to make sure it had no defects. I used WinMFS to copy an original stock drive to the new drive. Selected yes when prompted to limit to 1TB partitions. I completed the Guided setup. After a soft boot and several hard boots, it is stuck on the Welcome! Powering up... screen.

MDL: WD15EVDS-63V9B0
Product of Thailand
DATE: 04 OCT 2009
DCM: HHNCNT2CAB
R/N : 701640
LBA: 2930277168
Firmware: 01.00A01

UPDATE: My WD15EVDS is working with a hard boot now. My fault the hard boot did not work before. It still won't soft boot consistantly though. Other than the soft boot issue, it appears to be functioning normally. Capacity says 178 HD hours. It was 143 HD hours with the WD10EACS.


----------



## dlfl

wgw,

You disabled Anti-Virus and Network Security whiile using WinMFS ?


----------



## wgw

dlfl said:


> wgw,
> 
> You disabled Anti-Virus and Network Security whiile using WinMFS ?


Hi dlfl,

There is no Antivirus installed. My diag computer is little more than a bare WinXP Pro install. I'll try again with Windows Firewall disabled.


----------



## armstrr

bkdtv said:


> From the mfslive.org forums:
> 
> Even if someone were to create a truncated image using one of these 2TB drives (would you volunteer?), I'm not sure WinMFS could restore it.


i didn't understand a word of that...but that's why i went the prepared drive route...that, and my computer is 5yrs old and i don't even know if i could have prepared a bare drive with it. as long as what i bought works...i'm happy!!!


----------



## wgw

dlfl,

Didn't work with Windows Firewall disabled. Still hangs at power up.

I think I'll try using Hitachi Feature Tool to reduce the capacity of the WD15EVDS from 1.5TB to 1.2TB and see what happens.


----------



## mcmnky

Carlthulhu said:


> Has anyone tried the 1.5TB Western Digital WD15EVDS?
> 
> It's available from provantage for $130.70. I'd add a link, but I'm still a newbie who can't post links here.
> 
> I'd like to replace the drive in my TivoHD with one. Will it work?
> 
> I realize it won't use the entire 1.5TB, but it should expand to 1.26 TB usable, right?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Carl


I'd also be interested in hearing anyone's experience with 1.5TB drives in the TiVo HD. Beach Audio currently has the WD15EVDS for $143.

My stock HD with MyDVR expander is acting up, which I hope is only drive issues. (pixelation, partial records, just generally being a bad TiVo)

If the TiVo uses 1.26 of the 1.5TB, that's about 15% more space for about 30% more money over the 1TB drives. But for all the hassle of the upgrade, I figure it makes sense to go as big as I can while I have the unit open.

I tend to record whole seasons of shows to watch at once, so I have run in to space issues with my current set up.

My plan is to copy all my current recordings (MRV for SD, download to computer for HD), divorce the eSATA, and do a truncated copy to the new drive. It's been a few years since I dropped a new drive in a Series 2, but I think I remember how these things work.

It'll be a few days (at least) until I get everything transferred and can start he process in earnest, but I'll let you folks know how it goes.


----------



## mcmnky

wgw said:


> The WD15EVDS does not appear to be compatible with the Series 3 (648). I performed full read/write diags on the new drive to make sure it had no defects. I used WinMFS to copy an original stock drive to the new drive. Selected yes when prompted to limit to 1TB partitions. I completed the Guided setup. After a soft boot and several hard boots, it is stuck on the Welcome! Powering up... screen.


Ew. Just noticed wgw is having issues WD15EVDS in a Series 3. Hmmm.

This thread ("Attempting Install of WD 1.5TB EADS in Series3 TiVo") (although dealing with a different model WD drive) is encouraging (for me)--that folks are getting some extra storage from 1.5TB drives, and that the TiVoHD is less prone to the type of issues wgw is seeing with the Series 3.


----------



## alyssa

Just as a point of reference;
I replaced my HD with an WD10EVVS in sept. It is working fine with no issues.
made in Thailand
Date 7.21.09
DCM DHNCHV2MGB
R/N 701640
LBA 1953525168


----------



## roytwo

Got my S3 working great with the Seagate Pipeline, but has any one had issues with noise?
Mine seems a bit noisy


----------



## bkdtv

roytwo said:


> Got my S3 working great with the Seagate Pipeline, but has any one had issues with noise?
> Mine seems a bit noisy


Which Seagate Pipeline did you get?

There are several models, and some are louder than others. For example, the ST31000533CS makes noticeably more noise than the ST31000322CS.

The ST31000322CS is a little louder than the WD10EVDS/WD10EVVS. Unfortunately, one can no longer be certain that they'll receive a WD10EVVS that actually works in a TiVo.


----------



## roytwo

Mine is the ST31000322CS. I can hear it working, never could hear the original one. Doesn't seem like a death rattle type of noise but noticeably louder.

Have one of the WD10EVVS it was quiet, but of course never got pass the power up screen....lol


----------



## CraigK

A Seagate ST31000322CS arrived on my doorstep this afternoon. From the time I opened the box to the time my wife's TiVo HD was powering up with the new drive inside was under half an hour. I only had to do a truncated backup since I had moved all the programs she wanted to save to my TiVo and now am moving them back.

Other than the hiccup with the EVVS drive the conversion of our two TiVo HD's to 1TB each using WinMFS went very smoothly. Thanks again to everyone in this thread and especially bkdtv for the excellent instructions. :up:


----------



## wgw

My WD15EVDS is working with a hard boot now. My fault the hard boot did not work before. It still won't soft boot consistantly though. Other than the soft boot issue, it appears to be functioning normally. Capacity says 178 HD hours. It was 143 HD hours with the WD10EACS.


----------



## bkdtv

wgw said:


> My WD15EVDS is working with a hard boot now. My fault the hard boot did not work before. It still won't soft boot consistantly though. Other than the soft boot issue, it appears to be functioning normally. Capacity says 178 HD hours. It was 143 HD hours with the WD10EACS.


Did you not do MfsSupersize? IIRC, you should have 198 HD hours with a 1.5TB drive on a TivoHD when MfsSupersize is used.


----------



## wgw

bkdtv said:


> Did you not do MfsSupersize? IIRC, you should have 198 HD hours with a 1.5TB drive on a TivoHD when MfsSupersize is used.


Thanks bkdtv, with mfssupersize, it's now reporting 196 hours.


----------



## jasonander

Wanted to report back here about my upgrade experience for my 2 Tivos. I upgraded my Tivo HD a few weeks ago with the WD10EVVS and didn't experience the problems when other folks were having with it hanging on startup. However I saw people were having problems with it having at the Powering up screen from a warm reboot. I just tried to reboot my Tivo HD from the menu and mine is having the same problem, hanging on Powering Up, and the fans are spinning loudly.
To repeat, here's the drive info:
MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
Product of Thailand
DATE: 20 SEP 2009
DCM: HANCNV2MAB
R/N: 701640
LBA: 1953525168

Yesterday I upgraded my 2nd Tivo, which is an S3, with the WD10EVDS. So far no problems, and warm reboot works fine.

Would people recommend I just return the WD10EVVS drive to Amazon and order a WD10EVDS to replace it? It seems like having the warm reboot issue could cause problems whenever Tivo pushes out a new version. I've never returned anything to Amazon before so not sure if it's worth the hassle.


----------



## opus123

Just upgraded 2 Tivo HD's with WD10EVVS's (made prior to Sept 20).
I'm a mac guy, and had to borrow a PC to accomplish (using Win XP). 

Both seem to be successful, but I noticed an anti-virus scan occur during the 2nd upgrade. I cancelled the scan prior to completion, but it was about 70&#37; through by the time i noticed (long copy time as I was copying shows as well). Didn't know enough to disable beforehand.

Tivos are working fine from power-up so far, but given the virus scan... should I expect trouble when soft-booting?


----------



## bowlingblogger

jasonander said:


> Yesterday I upgraded my 2nd Tivo, which is an S3, with the WD10EVDS. So far no problems, and warm reboot works fine.
> 
> Would people recommend I just return the WD10EVVS drive to Amazon and order a WD10EVDS to replace it? It seems like having the warm reboot issue could cause problems whenever Tivo pushes out a new version. I've never returned anything to Amazon before so not sure if it's worth the hassle.


I had the same soft reboot problem with my WD10EVVS in my TivoHD (otherwise worked fine), and I just replaced it with a WD10EVDS this morning. It works fine after a soft reboot and seems to be in perfect working order in all other respects as well! I've already RMA'd the WD10EVVS with Amazon and plan to send it back on Monday. I just hope they give me my money back, because unless they put it in a Tivo and try to soft-reboot it I doubt they'll see anything wrong with it.


----------



## richsadams

jasonander said:


> However I saw people were having problems with it having at the Powering up screen from a warm reboot. I just tried to reboot my Tivo HD from the menu and mine is having the same problem, hanging on Powering Up, and the fans are spinning loudly.
> To repeat, here's the drive info:
> MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
> Product of Thailand
> DATE: 20 SEP 2009
> DCM: HANCNV2MAB
> R/N: 701640
> LBA: 1953525168





bowlingblogger said:


> I had the same soft reboot problem with my WD10EVVS in my TivoHD (otherwise worked fine), and I just replaced it with a WD10EVDS this morning. It works fine after a soft reboot and seems to be in perfect working order in all other respects as well! .


AFAIK these are the first instances of a soft reboot problem with the WD10EVVS for a TiVo HD or a Series3...surprising but good to know. That they function after a hard reboot but not a soft reboot still indicates a production change of some sort IMO so it's still a good idea to stay away from the WD10EVVS, likely from this point on.



bowlingblogger said:


> I just hope they give me my money back, because unless they put it in a Tivo and try to soft-reboot it I doubt they'll see anything wrong with it.


I doubt Amazon does any testing at all and simply returns them for credit or wholesales them off. As long as you indicate that the drive simply didn't work you should receive a full refund.


----------



## richsadams

opus123 said:


> Tivos are working fine from power-up so far, but given the virus scan... should I expect trouble when soft-booting?


Did you try a menu restart (soft reboot)? If so, did it work? A virus scan can corrupt data transfer, but the soft reboot issue is drive specific.

Generally the upgrade will either work or it won't so if everything is working normally (including a soft and hard reboot) I wouldn't worry about it going forward. If you do run into a soft reboot problem, it would most certainly be a drive issue, nothing to do with the virus scan.


----------



## opus123

just finished forcing tivo service connection, then a soft-reboot.
all is well, and functioning properly. thanks!

also, my sincere thanks to the OP for providing such great direction on how to self-upgrade. a HUGE help. 

hoping this incarnation of tivo will serve me well for years to come


----------



## richsadams

opus123 said:


> just finished forcing tivo service connection, then a soft-reboot.
> all is well, and functioning properly. thanks!


Congrats and enjoy! :up:


----------



## bowlingblogger

richsadams said:


> I doubt Amazon does any testing at all and simply returns them for credit or wholesales them off. As long as you indicate that the drive simply didn't work you should receive a full refund.


Good to know--if for some reason they don't give me a refund (or only give a partial refund), I'll post back.


----------



## eaayoung

So, is the EVDS the way to go with the WD drives? Sounds like its a quieter drive compared to the Seagate.

About ready to pull the trigger since I'm convinced my Cisco Tuning Adapter doesn't like the expander drive.

Still getting freeze and reboot on occassions.


----------



## cr33p

Does anyone have any technical knowledge of the WD10EAVS model? I recently RMA'd a wd10EADS HDD with WD and they are all out of stock to send me a replacement, so I had them send out the EAVS model, I cant barely find any info on this drive, I think it was an early version of the 1tb green family since it is only sporting 16mb cache. So far though it is performing perfectly in my newly purchased 69.00 dollar S3 from ebay


----------



## richsadams

cr33p said:


> Does anyone have any technical knowledge of the WD10EAVS model?


The WD10EAVS has recently been used in the Fantom 1TB Green" external hard drives. IIRC the AAM is not set to 128 so it may be a little louder than necessary but it can be adjusted. (More in the first post.)

Have you tried a menu restart (soft reboot)? IIRC there were reports that it exhibited the soft reboot issue in Series3's (hangs on the "Welcome...almost there" screen); the reason it's not on the recommended drive list. Can you let us know if yours has that issue or not? TIA.


----------



## drey

wgw said:


> The WD15EVDS does not appear to be compatible with the Series 3 (648). I performed full read/write diags on the new drive to make sure it had no defects. I used WinMFS to copy an original stock drive to the new drive. Selected yes when prompted to limit to 1TB partitions. I completed the Guided setup. After a soft boot and several hard boots, it is stuck on the Welcome! Powering up... screen.
> 
> MDL: WD15EVDS-63V9B0
> Product of Thailand
> DATE: 04 OCT 2009
> DCM: HHNCNT2CAB
> R/N : 701640
> LBA: 2930277168
> Firmware: 01.00A01
> 
> UPDATE: My WD15EVDS is working with a hard boot now. My fault the hard boot did not work before. It still won't soft boot consistantly though. Other than the soft boot issue, it appears to be functioning normally. Capacity says 178 HD hours. It was 143 HD hours with the WD10EACS.


Interesting. I have WD20EVDS (should be similar as your WD15EVDS, except for capacity) and don't have a soft boot problem on my S3. How did you prepare your drive?


----------



## richsadams

Noted that Buy.com has the recommended Fantom 1TB Green eSATA drive for $74.99 AR w/free shipping.


----------



## cr33p

richsadams said:


> The WD10EAVS has recently been used in the Fantom 1TB Green" external hard drives. IIRC the AAM is not set to 128 so it may be a little louder than necessary but it can be adjusted. (More in the first post.)
> 
> Have you tried a menu restart (soft reboot)? IIRC there were reports that it exhibited the soft reboot issue in Series3's (hangs on the "Welcome...almost there" screen); the reason it's not on the recommended drive list. Can you let us know if yours has that issue or not? TIA.


I have installed and tested this w10eavs hard drive in both a TivoHD and Series 3 unit and they boot perfectly. 
Well I guess now I fully understand the "soft reboot" issue, after I performed a software reboot the unit hung on Welcome Powering up. Man what a PITA, so does this mean this drive will have other issues with the system? Or only when it reboots via the software? I dont see why this would be a "huge" inconvenience. I mean it would suck to go unplug it and replug it in. But I could live with it.

Further though, I recently picked up two wd10eads units and one of the two drives refused to boot up properly 100 percent of the time, it would hang on welcome powering up, I have RMA'd that drive, lets hope that we arent running out of drive options here.


----------



## cr33p

richsadams said:


> Noted that Buy.com has the recommended Fantom 1TB Green eSATA drive for $74.99 AR w/free shipping.


Hmmm interesting  I wonder how hard it is to pop that drive out of its enclosure? And hey even better to have a spare external enclosure laying around, hell pop that old 160 or 250 sata drive in it to make it usefull. I think I will scoop up a few. How do you know for sure that is the drive inside that Fantom unit?


----------



## richsadams

cr33p said:


> Hmmm interesting  I wonder how hard it is to pop that drive out of its enclosure? And hey even better to have a spare external enclosure laying around, hell pop that old 160 or 250 sata drive in it to make it usefull. I think I will scoop up a few. How do you know for sure that is the drive inside that Fantom unit?


The last post I read about someone opening the Fantom 1TB eSATA drive up said that there was a WD10EAVS inside (the one that has a soft reboot problem in Series3's).

IIRC a couple of folks had the same idea (open it and pull the drive) but they said that there was some sort of warranty seal on the enclosure. If so, that would void the two-year warranty (which is pretty good for an eSATA drive). Not worth it IMHO.


----------



## richsadams

cr33p said:


> I have installed and tested this w10eavs hard drive in both a TivoHD and Series 3 unit and they boot perfectly.
> Well I guess now I fully understand the "soft reboot" issue, after I performed a software reboot the unit hung on Welcome Powering up. Man what a PITA, so does this mean this drive will have other issues with the system? Or only when it reboots via the software? I dont see why this would be a "huge" inconvenience. I mean it would suck to go unplug it and replug it in. But I could live with it.
> 
> Further though, I recently picked up two wd10eads units and one of the two drives refused to boot up properly 100 percent of the time, it would hang on welcome powering up, I have RMA'd that drive, lets hope that we arent running out of drive options here.


Bummer about the Series3 soft reboot issue which apparently still exists with the WD10EAVS. You shouldn't experience any other problems though. If there is a software update or possibly a brief power failure or surge causing the unit to reboot it would hang until you conducted a hard reboot. If you have your TiVo's on a UPS (and you should) you'd only run into the issue during the periodic (four or five times a year) TiVo software upgrades.

The WD10EADS should work in your TiVo HD's...but they have the same soft reboot issue with Series3's.


----------



## spocko

cr33p said:


> I wonder how hard it is to pop that drive out of its enclosure?


It's very easy. You can use the enclosure as a USB-to-sata adaptor also, so if you are doing a truncated backup then there is no need to open up your PC. There is a warranty seal on the Fantom enclosure, so if you open it up then bye bye warranty. It's probably a good idea to run some burn in tests on the drive before opening the enclosure.


----------



## cr33p

Yeah tru that. I see Newegg has the WD10eads on sale again today for 74.99 shipped, I think I will snap up a few more of them for my HD models.


----------



## JasonRossSmith

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I couldn't find the answer (and haven't figured out how to search "within" a thread...

I've read over the bulk of this FAQ, and am looking to upgrade my Tivo HD (TCD652160) which is currently 100&#37; stock, with an internal 1TB HD.

Normally I would just go buy the "specifically reccomended" drive using the links provided, but I had $100 of store credit to spend at Best Buy...

They currently have a Seagate Barracuda 1TB drive (ST310005N1A1AS-RK) unit on sale for only $90, so I'd like to get that one unless there are issues with it.

Has anyone used that, does it work, any problems with noise, etc?

Thanks!


----------



## JasonRossSmith

Wow, ok I feel stupid now.... Just saw this great big "search this thread" link....

I see that someone used the (ST310005N1A1AS-RK) back in April on the Series 3. What about the Tivo HD?


----------



## richsadams

JasonRossSmith said:


> Wow, ok I feel stupid now.... Just saw this great big "search this thread" link....
> 
> I see that someone used the (ST310005N1A1AS-RK) back in April on the Series 3. What about the Tivo HD?


If it worked in a TiVo Series3 it should work in a TiVo HD (it's going the other way that is problematic with some drives).

The ST310005N1A1AS-RK is a "retail kit" (RK) and actually has a Seagate ST31000340AS hard drive inside. A caveat is that Seagate had some serious troubles with this drive last year. There is a thread on their web site (http://forums.seagate.com/stx/board/message?board.id=ata_drives&thread.id=3668) that's over 51 pages long discussing firmware problems. It ends in February this year with a moderator link to a new thread which doesn't work. There's apparently a firmware update link as well (http://seagate.custkb.com/seagate/crm/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=207951). I'd think they probably have it straightened out by now and again, if someone else is using it I wouldn't worry too much

The only other issue might be noise. Seagate drives can be real thrashing machines and there isn't a way to change Seagate's AAM (Automatic Acoustic Management) like you can with most other brands of drives. The specs on that drive (http://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/support/disc/manuals/desktop/Barracuda 7200.11/100452348g.pdf) show the idle noise at 2.9bels and a seek noise of 3.3bels. That's pretty noisy compared to the their and other brand's A/V drives which usually are no louder than 2.6bels or so. If you can live with the constant "clicking" that's okay, but I wouldn't put it in quiet home theater setup or a bedroom.

Hope that helps and happy upgrading!


----------



## ajayabb

JasonRossSmith said:


> Sorry if this has been asked before, but I couldn't find the answer (and haven't figured out how to search "within" a thread...
> 
> I've read over the bulk of this FAQ, and am looking to upgrade my Tivo HD (TCD652160) which is currently 100% stock, with an internal 1TB HD.
> 
> Normally I would just go buy the "specifically reccomended" drive using the links provided, but I had $100 of store credit to spend at Best Buy...
> 
> They currently have a Seagate Barracuda 1TB drive (ST310005N1A1AS-RK) unit on sale for only $90, so I'd like to get that one unless there are issues with it.
> 
> Has anyone used that, does it work, any problems with noise, etc?
> 
> Thanks!


Jason,
I just installed the Seagate Barracuda 1 TB drive 4 days ago into my Living Room Tivo HD. It runs perfectly. As far as the noise is concerned, it generates a low pitched tone during operation which is not audible during TV viewing but can be heard during quiet hours


----------



## eochs

Installed a WD7500AVVS in my THD last night... Great work by y'all putting the instructions together, went off without a hitch! Can't believe how quiet this drive is, even with it sitting out on my desk connected to a USB->Sata adapter while running WinMFS I couldn't hear a peep out of the drive, and had to keep touching it to feel it spinning to believe it was actually not a bad drive!


----------



## jlib

JasonRossSmith said:


> ...Normally I would just go buy the "specifically reccomended" drive using the links provided, but I had $100 of store credit to spend at Best Buy...
> 
> They currently have a Seagate Barracuda 1TB drive (ST310005N1A1AS-RK) unit on sale for only $90, so I'd like to get that one unless there are issues with it.
> 
> Has anyone used that, does it work, any problems with noise, etc?


If you are set on Seagate you really should consider the low power version Barracuda LP. It is by far the the quietest of all the current crop of 1TB drives and I regularly see it on special for way less than $100. As Rich mentioned, you can not attenuate the seek sounds of Seagates. This one you don't need to.

There used to be a retail kit version but it looks like it is only available as a bare drive now (retail kit only means provided cables, longer warranty and slightly higher price). I have a couple of its 1.5TB LP siblings and they are also the coolest running drives I have ever seen.

Anyway, understood you want to use your BB credit. You will have to see if the ST310005N1A1AS-RK Barracuda is quiet enough for you. If not, you wil have a good backup drive for your computer.


----------



## richsadams

jlib said:


> If you are set on Seagate you really should consider the low power version Barracuda LP. It is by far the the quietest of all the current crop of 1TB drives and I regularly see it on special for way less than $100.


Wow! I hadn't seen their specs...1.9bels idle and 2.0 seek? That is by far the quietest drive out there. Folks with bedroom TiVo's should be shouting (or snoring) for joy!


----------



## dforemsky

I have a TivoHD with a bad motherboard that had been upgraded with a 1 TB drive. I have a replacement TivoHD on the way. 

Can I just put the upgraded drive in the new TivoHD and preserve all recordings and season passes from the bad Tivo?

I see that DVRUpgrade sells all in one expansion kits that you just drop in and they work, but one of the steps in their instructions indicate that the Tivo will clear and delete everything automatically and the user will need to go through guided setup again. Is this something specific to the DVRUpgrade kits or will that happen if I just drop in the drive from the old Tivo?

thanks!


----------



## bowlingblogger

I've never tried this, but I don't see why it wouldn't work since all of that information is contained on the drive. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than myself can confirm.


----------



## cr33p

It will generate a hardware error once it is started up, the new unit with old drive will have a mismatched set of encryption keys. Only way to fix it is clear and delete everything = lose all your recordings and season passes. Not sure if anyone has a workaround like we had on the Dtivo units with the clear 51 killer.tcl .


----------



## MPSAN

Hello ALL;
If there is a FRY'S near you they have a 1TB drive for $59.99 and is a Major Brand Name.  as opposed to the guy down the street making a 1TB drive in his garage!

It has been reported that it is the WD WD10EADS that works so well in my TiVoHD. I am not sure if you would get the 2 or 3 platter drive, but here is how to tell...

WD10EADS-00M2B0 = Two 500gb platters
WD10EADS-00L5B1= Three 334gb platters

At any rate, it does show online, but not sure how much shipping charges are. SKU is 6070278.

It says store pickup not available, but that is not true.


----------



## innocentfreak

Shipping for ground for me is 6.38 so still a good deal. I am just going to throw it in my server though.


----------



## MPSAN

innocentfreak said:


> Shipping for ground for me is 6.38 so still a good deal. I am just going to throw it in my server though.


Shipping is not too bad here. It is about 25 miles away and gas is worth something. Still I wonder if they would hold a 2 platter unit for me if I called them?


----------



## jlib

MPSAN said:


> Hello ALL;
> If there is a FRY'S near you they have a 1TB drive for $59.99...


So, they are able to make a drive like that, ship it from the far east, and everyone along the line is able to make enough profit to make it worth getting out of bed in the morning? I spent that much for a tire for my bicycle.


----------



## jonra

Is there a way to copy my factory Tivo HD drive & my 500gb mydvr expander drive settings & shows to a new 1 or 1.5 tb drive so I can upgrade my Tivo Hd? This way I can get rid of my dvr expander, run quieter, cooler with lower power...


----------



## bicker

The way I handled that is I used TTG to transfer all my recordings to my desktop computer, then transferred them back onto my new hard drive. It works for all unprotected recordings.


----------



## JasonRossSmith

Rich, Ajay, Jlib thanks for the advice and suggestions!!!

MPSAN, I called Fry's and they told me on the phone that the "$59.99 Major Brand Name" drive was actually a WD10EVDS so I bought one. For that price I'll just hold on to my Best Buy credit and use it some other time, especially since that is a recomended drive.

When I got my order confirmation however it turns out it is really a WD10EADS like you said had been reported.

In the drive recomendation section of this it states that the WD10EADS was removed because they won't work with the Series 3, but *will* work with the Tivo HD. Since I have a Tivo HD (TCD652160) I should be fine right?

Jason


----------



## dlfl

wd10eads working fine for me and a lot of other HD's -- until WD makes some mysterious change like they did for the wd10evvs.


----------



## cr33p

jonra said:


> Is there a way to copy my factory Tivo HD drive & my 500gb mydvr expander drive settings & shows to a new 1 or 1.5 tb drive so I can upgrade my Tivo Hd? This way I can get rid of my dvr expander, run quieter, cooler with lower power...


Im pretty sure winmfs will handle that for you. Go check out their site and support forum, talk to spike.


----------



## richsadams

jonra said:


> Is there a way to copy my factory Tivo HD drive & my 500gb mydvr expander drive settings & shows to a new 1 or 1.5 tb drive so I can upgrade my Tivo Hd? This way I can get rid of my dvr expander, run quieter, cooler with lower power...


Unfortunately combining drives is not supported by winMFS. There are no programs that will combine an eSATA drive and internal drive if the eSATA drive was connected via plug and play (as you would normally do w/My DVR Expanders). If an eSATA drive was added manually you can use MFStools to combine the drives.

More info can be found on the forum at the author's web site, www.mfslive.org.

Following bicker's advice about transferring recordings (that aren't copy protected) to a computer or another TiVo and then back is probably your best bet.


----------



## MPSAN

JasonRossSmith said:


> Rich, Ajay, Jlib thanks for the advice and suggestions!!!
> 
> MPSAN, I called Fry's and they told me on the phone that the "$59.99 Major Brand Name" drive was actually a WD10EVDS so I bought one. For that price I'll just hold on to my Best Buy credit and use it some other time, especially since that is a recomended drive.
> 
> When I got my order confirmation however it turns out it is really a WD10EADS like you said had been reported.
> 
> In the drive recomendation section of this it states that the WD10EADS was removed because they won't work with the Series 3, but *will* work with the Tivo HD. Since I have a Tivo HD (TCD652160) I should be fine right?
> 
> Jason


YES, as I, too, have the TiVoHD and that is the drive I put in. It has been working just fine for several Months now and it is silent. I did, however, adjust the AAM.


----------



## jonra

Thanks,
Rich, Bicker, & everyone. I wish i had just updated to a larger drive in the first place rather than setting up the mydvr expander. A lot of my recordings are on my second TIVO, so I guess I'll copy that drive to a new larger drive & get rid of the dvr expander & update that tivo to a fresh new 1 TB drive.


----------



## richsadams

jonra said:


> Thanks,
> Rich, Bicker, & everyone. I wish i had just updated to a larger drive in the first place rather than setting up the mydvr expander. A lot of my recordings are on my second TIVO, so I guess I'll copy that drive to a new larger drive & get rid of the dvr expander & update that tivo to a fresh new 1 TB drive.


That's a good plan. IIRC some others here did the same thing...maybe MSPAN? Upgraded one TiVo, keeping all of the recordings, then moved the recordings off of another TiVo to that one, upgraded the other TiVo and then moved the transferred recordings back again. Phew!

Anyway, happy upgrading!


----------



## eaayoung

So, I've order a new WD drive for my S3 from Buy.com. I could complete the upgrade via a Mac or Windows 7 PC but prefer to use the Windows 7 PC. 

Has anyone tried this with Windows 7?


----------



## dswallow

eaayoung said:


> So, I've order a new WD drive for my S3 from Buy.com. I could complete the upgrade via a Mac or Windows 7 PC but prefer to use the Windows 7 PC.
> 
> Has anyone tried this with Windows 7?


I did mine running WinMFS under Windows 7; just be sure to run WinMFS as an administrator otherwise it won't see any drives. Otherwise it works fine.


----------



## eaayoung

Thanks.

Should have the drive by the weekend.


----------



## eaayoung

Thanks. 

Should have the new drive by next weekend.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> That's a good plan. IIRC some others here did the same thing...maybe MSPAN? Upgraded one TiVo, keeping all of the recordings, then moved the recordings off of another TiVo to that one, upgraded the other TiVo and then moved the transferred recordings back again. Phew!
> 
> Anyway, happy upgrading!


I upgraded 1 of my TiVo HD's to 1TB and did a copy from the original 160GB to the 1TB. All setting and shows were fine, but I did not have an expander.

Another thing that I did do was use this now "spare" 160GB drive to fix a non upgraded TiVoHD in another room. I did a truncated copy from the "bad" drive, to this spare drive and this spare drive is now running just fine. I plan on writing all zeros to the bad drive, and then do a copy from the spare drive that is now running. I want to see if the "bad" drive can be fixed. I did several full drive scans on the "bad" drive and it tests OK.


----------



## tomlavelle

tomlavelle said:


> I ordered a WD10EVVS from buy.com last week; arrived Wednesday, I just tried to upgrade today Saturday. No joy - Tivo boots to the rainbow 'powering up' screen but never gets past that. I hear the drive spin up and the heads move a little when I put the power to the Tivo but after that it's pretty quiet.
> 
> MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
> Product of Thailand
> DATE: 19 SEP 2009
> DCM: DANCHV2MGB
> R/N: 701640
> LBA: 1953525168
> 
> Note that the first five characters of the DCM are different than MitchV's, which was sourced from buy.com at about the same time.
> 
> I used WinMFS, flipped supersize on. MFSCopy from original 250GB disk to this 1TB disk took a couple hours, WinMFS reported that everything went fine.
> 
> I did not turn OneCare anti-virus off.
> 
> I have not jumpered the drive in any way.
> 
> Any ideas?!? I'm frustrated because I've upgraded Series3 Tivos in the past without issue, my primary Tivo has a failing (Seagate 750GB) disk and I need to get this newly acquired Series3 working ASAP.
> 
> Thanks,
> Tom


FYI, I replaced the EVVS with an EVDS, works great. I bought another WD10EVDS to replace the failing 750GB Seagate DB35 in my original Series3.


----------



## jasonander

I replaced the WD10EVVS with the WD10EVDS in my TivoHD, and no longer have the warm reboot problem.

I also used WinMFS with my recently upgraded Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit computer, copying from the EVVS to the EVDS, and had no problems.

I'll be returning the EVVS drive soon.


----------



## tivoupgrade

jasonander said:


> I replaced the WD10EVVS with the WD10EVDS in my TivoHD, and no longer have the warm reboot problem.
> 
> I also used WinMFS with my recently upgraded Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit computer, copying from the EVVS to the EVDS, and had no problems.
> 
> I'll be returning the EVVS drive soon.


This is interesting.

I don't read this thread very often, but someone just pointed it out to me. I've tried to look back and see how long these issues have been occurring, so I'm sorry if I've missed something.

Is it just you that is having problems with the EVVS or does it appear that many are seeing this?

AFAIK, the TiVo HD XL uses the EVVS drive, and up until recently, we've been using the EVVS drives for many of our 1TB upgrades with no issues.

The thought that WD may be modding their firmware, and having issues as a result, is not necessarily unfounded. We've noticed that some models of WD drives that previously worked in certain older TiVo models recently stopped working with newer shipments. The only explanation we can come up with for that is changes in the firmware, which appear to be unannounced / undocumented.

I'm very curious about this and would like any more information you or anyone else can provide.

Lou


----------



## moxie1617

It started with drives with a Sept manufacture date. Search this thread for WD10EVVS and begin with the October hits. Several people have posted their detailed drive info.


----------



## richsadams

tivoupgrade said:


> This is interesting.


Hi Lou, good to hear from you.

In a nutshell it appears that WD changed something (likely firmware?) in the WD10EVVS effective with their September 20th manufacture date for drives built in Thailand . Those that installed drives with a prior manufacture date aren't experiencing any problems. Post 09/20/09 however the drives generally do not boot up at all in Series3's and TiVo HD's, sticking at the Welcome! screen.

AFAIK the issue above (soft reboot failure) in a TiVo HD is the first of its kind.

The drives in question had various DCM codes, etc. but all had the 09/20/09 manufacture date. Quite a few people were very helpful with posting all of their drive's details. You can scroll back through the thread to find them.

We were aware that TiVo was using the WD10EVVS as well and surprised that something changed. I don't know if you remember when something similar happened with the WD10EADS. It worked fine when it was first introduced a few years ago but about 90 days after introduction they began exhibiting the soft reboot issue in Series3's. Since then they're only recommended for TiVo HD's.

I and several others here contacted WD to see if they'd shed any light on the subject. A CSR named "Pablo" (or some variation) replied to a few e-mails with some generalities and vague reasoning (none of which was drive specific) , but after that the replies stopped. Perhaps you can get them to cough up some info?

In any case, the first post now recommends that the WD10EVVS be avoided completely. The drive of choice is either the WD10EVDS or Seagate's ST31000322CS, both of which work in all of the hi-def TiVo's.

Hope that helps.

EDIT: Noted that tomlavelle had problems with a WD10EVVS w/manufacture date of 09/19/09 as well. (Perhaps his was built at 11:59 p.m.?)


----------



## bkdtv

tivoupgrade said:


> AFAIK, the TiVo HD XL uses the EVVS drive, and up until recently, we've been using the EVVS drives for many of our 1TB upgrades with no issues.


If you recently purchased a batch of WD10EVVS drives with a manufacture date of Sept 20 or later in Thailand, then you'll want to return it. As Rich indicates above, those drives are not compatible with either high-definition TiVo.

The new drive of choice is the WD10EVDS. The Seagate ST31000322CS works just as well, but it produces slightly more noise.


----------



## tivoupgrade

richsadams said:


> Hi Lou, good to hear from you.
> 
> In a nutshell it appears that WD changed something (likely firmware?) in the WD10EVVS effective with their September 20th manufacture date for drives built in Thailand . Those that installed drives with a prior manufacture date aren't experiencing any problems. Post 09/20/09 however the drives generally do not boot up at all in Series3's and TiVo HD's, sticking at the Welcome! screen.
> 
> AFAIK the issue above (soft reboot failure) in a TiVo HD is the first of its kind.
> 
> The drives in question had various DCM codes, etc. but all had the 09/20/09 manufacture date. Quite a few people were very helpful with posting their all of their drive's details. You can scroll back through the thread to find them.
> 
> We were aware that TiVo was using the WD10EVVS as well and surprised that something changed. I don't know if you remember when something similar happened with the WD10EADS. It worked fine when it was first introduced a few years ago but about 90 days after introduction they began exhibiting the soft reboot issue in Series3's. Since then they're only recommended for TiVo HD's.
> 
> I and several others here contacted WD to see if they'd shed any light on the subject. A CSR named "Pablo" (or some variation) replied to a few e-mails with some generalities and vague reasoning (none of which was drive specific) , but after that the replies stopped. Perhaps you can get them to cough up some info?
> 
> In any case, the first post now recommends that the WD10EVVS be avoided completely. The drive of choice is either the WD10EVDS or Seagate's ST31000322CS, both of which work in all of the hi-def TiVo's.
> 
> Hope that helps.
> 
> EDIT: Noted that tomlavelle had problems with a WD10EVVS w/manufacture date of 09/19/09 as well. (Perhaps his was built at 11:59 p.m.?)


Thanks for the details. I am going to forward to a few people in product marketing at TiVo. They may or may not know and/or comment.

I am SO not surprised by the firmware change, as I mentioned earlier, we are seeing this happen across the product line (and we are not happy about it).

We've used the EVDS drives without a problem, but I noticed that those are now on back-order and I'm wondering whether there is a firmware change in the works there, as well.

As for 'drive of choice' -- don't forget about the Hitachi Deskstar (tuned). This is something we've been using for a couple of years, without issue in both TiVo HD and TiVo Series3 boxes. Their quality has been excellent (I think we've seen one or two bad drives; failures have been very rare) and acoustically, their differences have been undetectable.

Lou


----------



## tivoupgrade

bkdtv said:


> If you recently purchased a batch of WD10EVVS drives with a manufacture date of Sept 20 or later in Thailand, then you'll want to return it. As Rich indicates above, those drives are not compatible with either high-definition TiVo.
> 
> The new drive of choice is the WD10EVDS. The Seagate ST31000322CS works just as well, but it produces slightly more noise.


Thanks bkdtv... I don't have much experience with that Seagate model, but we have offered the WD10EVDS for some time without issue. We also like the Hitachi Deskstar (see my previous reply); that is one we've got the most experience with and from a reliability and performance standpoint recommend whenever possible.

Lou


----------



## richsadams

tivoupgrade said:


> As for 'drive of choice' -- don't forget about the Hitachi Deskstar (tuned). This is something we've been using for a couple of years, without issue in both TiVo HD and TiVo Series3 boxes. Their quality has been excellent (I think we've seen one or two bad drives; failures have been very rare) and acoustically, their differences have been undetectable.
> 
> Lou


Hi Lou, glad to help. Do you happen to have the exact model number of the Hitachi? That would be a good addition to the lineup.

I was a Seagate man for years and years then WD got their QC together and I've been happy with them in a number of applications (besides TiVo) for a while now. But with the issues Seagate had with their own firmware last year, a couple of Samsung Spinpoint disappointments and now WD getting to be questionable (at least on the firmware front...the quality still seems to be very good) I may become a Hitachi convert. I just put one of their 500GB drives in my MacBook and it's doing well...so if they're the rising star I'll gladly jump on board!

TIA.


----------



## tivoupgrade

richsadams said:


> Hi Lou, glad to help. Do you happen to have the exact model number of the Hitachi? That would be a good addition to the lineup.
> 
> I was a Seagate man for years and years then WD got their QC together and I've been happy with them in a number of applications (besides TiVo) for a while now. But with the issues Seagate had with their own firmware last year, a couple of Samsung Spinpoint disappointments and now WD getting to be questionable (at least on the firmware front...the quality still seems to be very good) I may become a Hitachi convert. I just put one of their 500GB drives in my MacBook and it's doing well...so if they're the rising star I'll gladly jump on board!
> 
> TIA.


The Hitachi Deskstar 0A38016 7K1000.B

We started out, quite some time ago, with a previous incarnation of these and worked very closely with Hitachi on offering rebates to our customers. At the time, we worked with Hitachi's engineers who assured us that the Deskstars which tuned with their AAM tools, were the same specs as their CinemaStar line. Interestingly, the CinemaStar line never really took off (we were rarely able to get them) but the Deskstar still seems to live on.

Having been doing the TiVo drive thing for over nine years now, we have seen every vendor go through fits and starts...

First, we started with Maxtor and Quantum. At that time (2000), WD quality was horrendous, and Seagate drives were very good, but loud and hot; the initial 7200 RPM drives were miserably hot!

Then Maxtor quality started to go down (after they purchased Quantum), Samsung came on the scene with Spinpoint drives and they were AWESOME. WD drives were still crap.

Then Seagate came in with the DB35 drives, and they were looking just "OK" for awhile. Samsung was still fantastic. Maxtor got better.

Then, Samsung blew it and their quality went down. WD started to get better. Seagate bought Maxtor and then Seagate started having quality issues.

Now, Samsung has pretty much disappeared. Seagate has maintained decent quality for some time, but seems to have bailed on the AV space (edit: yes, they do have the Pipeline drives, but they bailed early on the DB35 PATA drives and don't offer much at the low end anymore). WD quality has been great for the past 18 months until this little 'hiccup'.

So far, Hitachi has been good. I know they have had issues prior (the old IBM drives) but since we've started using them, we've had hardly any failures.

Lou

PS I've just been advised that our recent order of EVDS drives have shipped. I will post the F/W numbers when I get them. Is there a table being maintained? Happy to try and help. I still need to read back a few pages...
Lj


----------



## bkdtv

tivoupgrade said:


> The Hitachi Deskstar 0A38016 7K1000.B


The Hitachi 7K1000.B is also known as the HDT721010SLA360. That's how it is listed in the first post.

The 7K1000.C (HDS721010CLA332) is now available in Asia and should hit the U.S. next month. The PDF claims acoustics of 2.4 Bels, compared to 2.7 Bels for the existing 7K1000.B.



tivoupgrade said:


> PS I've just been advised that our recent order of EVDS drives have shipped. I will post the F/W numbers when I get them. Is there a table being maintained? Happy to try and help. I still need to read back a few pages...
> Lj


No table maintained, but if they've got a recent build date and they work, please let us know.


----------



## CraigK

bkdtv said:


> The new drive of choice is the WD10EVDS. The Seagate ST31000322CS works just as well, but it produces slightly more noise.


The Seagate ST31000322CS drive I recently put in one of our TiVo HDs is noticeably noisier than the WD10EVDS in the other TiVo HD. Kind of a low frequency rumble when accessing the drive. It's even inside a cabinet which I thought would help, but my wife even commented on it. Can't hear it when watching a program, but with the sound muted or the TV off it's kind of distracting. The TiVo with the WE10EVDS in it is out in the open and I never hear the drive at all.

I think after sweeps is over I'll get another WD10EVDS and swap it out and then use the Seagate for a backup drive for my computer.

I'll be watching the posts closely in this thread to make sure the WD10EVDS drives don't get updated to make them incompatible like the EVVS model.


----------



## tivoupgrade

bkdtv said:


> The Hitachi 7K1000.B is also known as the HDT721010SLA360. That's how it is listed in the first post.
> 
> The 7K1000.C (HDS721010CLA332) is now available in Asia and should hit the U.S. next month. The PDF claims acoustics of 2.4 Bels, compared to 2.7 Bels for the existing 7K1000.B.
> 
> No table maintained, but if they've got a recent build date and they work, please let us know.


I'll definitely let you know. I've noticed much more limited availability of the .B drives, that makes sense with .C on the horizon.

Lou


----------



## bkdtv

CraigK said:


> The Seagate ST31000322CS drive I recently put in one of our TiVo HDs is noticeably noisier than the WD10EVDS in the other TiVo HD. Kind of a low frequency rumble when accessing the drive. It's even inside a cabinet which I thought would help, but my wife even commented on it. Can't hear it when watching a program, but with the sound muted or the TV off it's kind of distracting. The TiVo with the WE10EVDS in it is out in the open and I never hear the drive at all.
> 
> I think after sweeps is over I'll get another WD10EVDS and swap it out and then use the Seagate for a backup drive for my computer.
> 
> I'll be watching the posts closely in this thread to make sure the WD10EVDS drives don't get updated to make them incompatible like the EVVS model.


Thanks. I'll update the noise rating in the first chart.

How would you describe the Seagate ST31000322CS relative to the original TivoHD drive: less noticeable, about the same, or more noticeable?

If the original TiVo drive is an 8 or 8.5 and the WD10EVDS is a 10, how would you rank the ST31000322CS?


----------



## dnorth12

I have the original S3 with a Apricorn external 500 G drive that although functions sound like a someone trying to start a lawn mower with a pull rope and it just won't start.

I don't wish to crack any cases, so I am looking at the Western Digital 1TB My DVR Expander Hard Drive. Tivo has it for about 200 bucks, Amazon has it for about 130 bucks. The math part is simple. The reliability is another. Amazon shows WDG1S10000N as the product number. Is this a drive that has shown any issues? I don't see any posted in this thread.


Thanks for any info.


----------



## lew

I'll speculate the new firmware is defaulting (on power on) to a powersaving mode that tivo (maybe linux in general) doesn't (or can't) awaken the drive from.



tivoupgrade said:


> Thanks for the details. I am going to forward to a few people in product marketing at TiVo. They may or may not know and/or comment.
> 
> I am SO not surprised by the firmware change, as I mentioned earlier, we are seeing this happen across the product line (and we are not happy about it).
> 
> We've used the EVDS drives without a problem, but I noticed that those are now on back-order and I'm wondering whether there is a firmware change in the works there, as well.
> 
> As for 'drive of choice' -- don't forget about the Hitachi Deskstar (tuned). This is something we've been using for a couple of years, without issue in both TiVo HD and TiVo Series3 boxes. Their quality has been excellent (I think we've seen one or two bad drives; failures have been very rare) and acoustically, their differences have been undetectable.
> 
> Lou


----------



## ExpectLess

Thanks to the great advice in this thread, I managed to get a WD15EVDS installed and working in a Series3 TiVo. WinMFS was a bit of a fight at first, but I can blame that on a cheap add-in SATA card I tried to use. Once I switched over to an external USB enclosure, results were much less miserable. 

Of course, if my expander hadn't bombed out, I wouldn't have needed to upgrade, but that's another story. I don't have the details on the WD drive available at the moment, MFSSupersize worked and it's reporting around 216 hours of HD capacity.


----------



## richsadams

dnorth12 said:


> I have the original S3 with a Apricorn external 500 G drive that although functions sound like a someone trying to start a lawn mower with a pull rope and it just won't start.
> 
> I don't wish to crack any cases, so I am looking at the Western Digital 1TB My DVR Expander Hard Drive. Tivo has it for about 200 bucks, Amazon has it for about 130 bucks. The math part is simple. The reliability is another. Amazon shows WDG1S10000N as the product number. Is this a drive that has shown any issues? I don't see any posted in this thread.
> 
> Thanks for any info.


The 1TB WD My DVR Expander has only been available for a few months...not really enough time to determine reliability. AFAIK I've only seen one post that indicated one failed. The 500GB model seems to have a fairly short lifespan, often failing at about 12 to 18 months. The My DVR Expander line only has a one-year warranty. The majority of failures appear to be due to the enclosure, not the actual hard drive. Several folks here have put the hard drive in a new enclosure and life was good again. As with anything, YMMV.

If you don't want to upgrade the internal drive in your Series3 you might want to consider building your own eSATA drive...buying one of the recommended bare drives and enclosures from the first post of the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ. It couldn't be more simple...open the enclosure, slip the hard drive inside and you're in business. That would give you a three to five year warranty on the drive and you can build a 1TB eSATA drive for about the same cost as the WD model from Amazon.


----------



## MPSAN

lew said:


> I'll speculate the new firmware is defaulting (on power on) to a powersaving mode that tivo (maybe linux in general) doesn't (or can't) awaken the drive from.


Lew, does the TiVo HDD EVER go into a power save mode anyway? I wonder as it is always buffering 2 tuners worth of data and is never "off".


----------



## bkdtv

MPSAN said:


> Lew, does the TiVo HDD EVER go into a power save mode anyway? I wonder as it is always buffering 2 tuners worth of data and is never "off".


Current Broadcom DVR SoCs don't offer any power management functions. That's a "feature" of the new and upcoming Broadcom SoCs.


----------



## lew

MPSAN said:


> Lew, does the TiVo HDD EVER go into a power save mode anyway? I wonder as it is always buffering 2 tuners worth of data and is never "off".


That's really the issue. I don't have any definitive information. I agree normally tivo won't put the drive into powersave mode. The question is if the WD drive now goes into power save mode on power on can/will tivo awaken the drive? Can (does) tivo issue whatever command is necessary to awaken a drive tivo when tivo doesn't have any reason to think the drive will ever be in a powersave mode.


----------



## lew

bkdtv said:


> Current Broadcom DVR SoCs don't offer any power management functions. That's a "feature" of the new and upcoming Broadcom SoCs.


What happens if WD did something so the "bad" drives automatically go into a power save (standby) mode at power on. Are the Broadcom DVRs able to "awaken" the drive. My WD drive has a jumper to enable power save on power on. What would happen if, as a result of a firmware change, that mode is now the default setting?


----------



## dnorth12

richsadams said:


> The 1TB WD My DVR Expander has only been available for a few months...not really enough time to determine reliability. AFAIK I've only seen one post that indicated one failed. The 500GB model seems to have a fairly short lifespan, often failing at about 12 to 18 months. The My DVR Expander line only has a one-year warranty. The majority of failures appear to be due to the enclosure, not the actual hard drive. Several folks here have put the hard drive in a new enclosure and life was good again. As with anything, YMMV.
> 
> If you don't want to upgrade the internal drive in your Series3 you might want to consider building your own eSATA drive...buying one of the recommended bare drives and enclosures from the first post of the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ. It couldn't be more simple...open the enclosure, slip the hard drive inside and you're in business. That would give you a three to five year warranty on the drive and you can build a 1TB eSATA drive for about the same cost as the WD model from Amazon.


Thanks for the response Rich. I decided to go with the Amazon purchase.

I am now in the process of transferring as many recordings to my iMac OS 10.6 via tivo transfer/popcorn from the S3/Apricorn. Once I get the mydvr hooked up to the S3 how do I transfer back to the tivo? I don't see that option in tivo transfer and tivo desktop can not be installed on this computer (get an error code with no information). The directions in this thread just say you can transfer back, but don't say how, unless I missed that somewhere.

Any help there would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## richsadams

dnorth12 said:


> Thanks for the response Rich. I decided to go with the Amazon purchase.
> 
> I am now in the process of transferring as many recordings to my iMac OS 10.6 via tivo transfer/popcorn from the S3/Apricorn. Once I get the mydvr hooked up to the S3 how do I transfer back to the tivo? I don't see that option in tivo transfer and tivo desktop can not be installed on this computer (get an error code with no information). The directions in this thread just say you can transfer back, but don't say how, unless I missed that somewhere.
> 
> Any help there would be greatly appreciated.


Not sure about the "popcorn" transfer. I use two very reliable programs...iTiVo for transfers to my Mac and PyTiVoX to transfer recordings, etc. to TiVo. The folks that designed those programs are regulars here and there are support threads for both programs.

TiVo Desktop for Mac does not work w/Snow Leopard yet. TiVo says they are working on it, but no one knows when it will be available. There's a thread about it, but mostly it's just folks complaining. TiVo has something on their web site saying that they are aware of the issue and are working on it. In the meantime PyTiVoX should work to transfer recordings back when you get your new drive.

Enjoy!


----------



## richsadams

lew said:


> What happens if WD did something so the "bad" drives automatically go into a power save (standby) mode at power on. Are the Broadcom DVRs able to "awaken" the drive. My WD drive has a jumper to enable power save on power on. What would happen if, as a result of a firmware change, that mode is now the default setting?


FWIW it doesn't seem likely that a power save mode is the issue with the WD10EVVS. Folks are reporting that the drive spins up on boot up, does a few seeks and then nothing more. Since TiVo's stick on the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen it indicates that the motherboard can't communicate with the hard drive. I'd be more inclined to believe that it's a firmware issue...possibly something similar to the change that suddenly prevented the WD10EACS from working with Series3's.


----------



## lrhorer

richsadams said:


> Hi Lou, good to hear from you.
> 
> In a nutshell it appears that WD changed something (likely firmware?) in the WD10EVVS effective with their September 20th manufacture date for drives built in Thailand . Those that installed drives with a prior manufacture date aren't experiencing any problems. Post 09/20/09 however the drives generally do not boot up at all in Series3's and TiVo HD's, sticking at the Welcome! screen.
> 
> AFAIK the issue above (soft reboot failure) in a TiVo HD is the first of its kind.


Um, huh? Are you saying there are no other drives which exhibit a reboot failure with a THD? That may be. Certainly there are drives which work with a hard reboot but fail a soft reboot on the S3. I also posted This message concerning the Hitachi Deskstar 500G which will not boot at all in a THD.



richsadams said:


> In any case, the first post now recommends that the WD10EVVS be avoided completely. The drive of choice is either the WD10EVDS or Seagate's ST31000322CS, both of which work in all of the hi-def TiVo's.


I've had good luck with Seagate Barracuda drives and Hitachi Deskstar drives in my S3 units. The only problems I have had are with 500G Hitachi in my THD (although I haven't tried a 1T Hitachi in the THD) and the WD15EADS in my S3.


----------



## CraigK

bkdtv said:


> Thanks. I'll update the noise rating in the first chart.
> 
> How would you describe the Seagate ST31000322CS relative to the original TivoHD drive: less noticeable, about the same, or more noticeable?


Noise on the Seagate ST31000322CS is much more noticeable than the original TiVo HD WD1600AVBS. Never really heard the original drives. Neither of our TiVo HDs are in a bedroom so it's never completely quiet. The Seagate would drive me crazy if I were trying to sleep in the same room.



bkdtv said:


> If the original TiVo drive is an 8 or 8.5 and the WD10EVDS is a 10, how would you rank the ST31000322CS?


7 I guess.

I wouldn't recommend it. I didn't read the FAQ carefully enough and thought the Seagate was adjustable as well as the WD. I probably got it mixed up with Hitachi in that regard.


----------



## richsadams

lrhorer said:


> Um, huh? Are you saying there are no other drives which exhibit a reboot failure with a THD? That may be. Certainly there are drives which work with a hard reboot but fail a soft reboot on the S3. I also posted This message concerning the Hitachi Deskstar 500G which will not boot at all in a THD.


In the context of answering Lou's question I was saying that AFAIK there was only the one instance of a WD10EVVS exhibiting a soft reboot failure in a TiVo HD, not that there weren't other drives that didn't work in TiVo HD's. As you and I have both pointed out, there are.


----------



## dnorth12

richsadams said:


> Not sure about the "popcorn" transfer. I use two very reliable programs...iTiVo for transfers to my Mac and PyTiVoX to transfer recordings, etc. to TiVo. The folks that designed those programs are regulars here and there are support threads for both programs.
> 
> TiVo Desktop for Mac does not work w/Snow Leopard yet. TiVo says they are working on it, but no one knows when it will be available. There's a thread about it, but mostly it's just folks complaining. TiVo has something on their web site saying that they are aware of the issue and are working on it. In the meantime PyTiVoX should work to transfer recordings back when you get your new drive.
> 
> Enjoy!


Rich,

Got PyTiVoX installed and can see the files from the S3 that are on the iMac.
Haven't tried a transfer yet back to the tivo as I am madly going the other direction in prep for the new drive.

Just one more question, I hope. The file names I see on the mac in the S3 NPL have underscores as placeholders for word spaces. Is that something you see and do they go away after transfer to the Tivo? I am using Tivo transfer to bring them over to the mac from the tivo, maybe that has something to do with it.

for example: Saving_Private_Ryan_other_info


----------



## richsadams

dnorth12 said:


> Just one more question, I hope. The file names I see on the mac in the S3 NPL have underscores as placeholders for word spaces. Is that something you see and do they go away after transfer to the Tivo? I am using Tivo transfer to bring them over to the mac from the tivo, maybe that has something to do with it.
> 
> for example: Saving_Private_Ryan_other_info


Hmmm...not sure about the underscores. Whenever I've created videos I always add them (old Linux habits die hard) but I'm not sure they are required or if they are dropped when recordings are transferred back (as I haven't had the occasion to move recordings back and forth). Hopefully someone more knowledgeable can answer. Or better yet you might want to post over in the PyTiVoX thread where the authors are sure to chime in.


----------



## prpjam

Is the maximum supported capacity related to Tivo software? I am wondering if the maximum capacity might change on a semi-annual software update by Tivo.

I think that I read that Tivo could update the software on Series 2 Dual Tuners and HD Tivos, but have not chosen to do so. 

I am about to buy 1.5 TB drives to maximize capacity to 1.1 TB or 1.26 TB, but I would buy even larger capacity drives if I thought that Tivo would change its software.


----------



## Laserfan

Hey bkdtv, thanks for all the good info. You should change the title of your thread tho to include the word "backup"--I did not easily find it when I came here searching for a way to proactively backup my TiVo hard drives (in case of hd failure).


----------



## bkdtv

prpjam said:


> Is the maximum supported capacity related to Tivo software? I am wondering if the maximum capacity might change on a semi-annual software update by Tivo.


The maximum capacity allowed by end-user upgrades is limited by available tools, although the TiVo software is also a factor. The TiVo software includes a SATA driver that only supports up to 1.0TiB (1.1TB) per partition.

WinMFS expands another existing partition by to 1.0TiB (1.1TB), therefore increasing stock capacity by that amount. If TiVo were to update their software with a new SATA driver, then spike2k (the author of WinMFS) could update his program to use more than that.


----------



## actorguy1

Sorry if this has already been asked many times. I only have a Mac desktop and a windows netbook. I am interested in expanding the internal hard drive on my Tivo HD. The current step by step instructions are for PCs with windows. Where is the best place for a step by step tutorial for Macs. Thanks in advance.


----------



## richsadams

actorguy1 said:


> Sorry if this has already been asked many times. I only have a Mac desktop and a windows netbook. I am interested in expanding the internal hard drive on my Tivo HD. The current step by step instructions are for PCs with windows. Where is the best place for a step by step tutorial for Macs. Thanks in advance.


Unfortunately the recommended program, winMFS, doesn't have a Mac counterpart (maybe there'll be a "macMFS" one day). I keep a PC I built around for just this reason. That said it can be done using winMFS and a virtual PC program such as VMWare Fusion or Parallels to accomplish the upgrade.

Here's a post from one successful member (note the warning in the second to last paragraph):

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7443603#post7443603

Here's a member that used Bootcamp to do his upgrade:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7542000#post7542000

Of course those methods require a copy of Windows.

Here's another post on a blog by someone using a virtual machine:

http://www.furrygoat.com/2009/01/20/tivo-hd-hard-drive-upgrade-via-virtual-machine/

Here's the link to the original Series2 upgrade method the post above refers to...saying that it works for Series3's as well:

http://wingedpower.com/2008/02/upgrading-tivo-your-macbook-prointel-and-vmwares-fusion/

Otherwise you'll need to find a good friend with a PC or you could try it with your netbook. It seems like it would work using winMFS and the laptop instructions (USB adapter, etc.) in the first post. I don't know of anyone that's done it but if it works please let us know.

Hope that helps and happy upgrading!


----------



## flatcurve

Okay, so we've got some WD drives in for testing. Could somebody explain this "soft reboot" issue to me like I was five? I think I understand it, but I want to know how to reliably reproduce the problem so I can thoroughly test them out.

ETA: Also, if I understand the problem correctly, then I should run into the soft reboot issue right away if I'm using a drive that was restored with an image that was in clear & delete mode, correct? because it reboots right after clearing & deleting. Please let me know if otherwise.

Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

The "soft reboot" issue means that TiVo will hang at the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen when it is either actively restarted by the user or passively such as a power failure or software upgrade. It generally appears only with TiVo Series3's and specific hard drives such as the WD10EADS.

To test for a soft reboot problem simply restart TiVo after a hard drive upgrade using the on-screen menus:

Messages and Settings > Restart or Reset System > Restart the TiVo DVR​
A "hard reboot" refers to disconnecting TiVo's power cord (waiting 10 seconds for the hard drive to spin down) and then plugging it back in.

TiVo's that display the soft reboot issue will restart properly with a hard reboot.

Yes, if the issue exists it should occur after a C&D.


----------



## flatcurve

richsadams said:


> The "soft reboot" issue means that TiVo will hang at the Welcome! Powering up screen when it is either actively restarted by the user or passively such as a power failure or software upgrade.


But not the "Almost there. Just a few minutes more..." screen?


----------



## bkdtv

flatcurve said:


> But not the "Almost there. Just a few minutes more..." screen?


Don't worry about where it hangs, only whether it hangs.

If you can completely reboot your TiVo using Messages & Settings -> Restart or Reset TiVo, then your drive doesn't exhibit the "soft reboot" issue. If such a reboot is unsuccessful, then it does suffer from the "soft reboot" problem.


----------



## richsadams

flatcurve said:


> But not the "Almost there. Just a few minutes more..." screen?


Yes AFAIK. I don't recall anyone saying that it would get past the welcome screen.

What bkdtv said in any case. :up:


----------



## jlib

richsadams said:


> The "soft reboot" issue means that TiVo will hang at the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen when it is either actively restarted by the user or passively such as a power failure or software upgrade...


I wouldn't include a power failure since that is more akin to a hard reboot so the symptoms would not be expected then.


----------



## tivoupgrade

bkdtv said:


> Don't worry about where it hangs, only whether it hangs.
> 
> If you can completely reboot your TiVo using Messages & Settings -> Restart or Reset TiVo, then your drive doesn't exhibit the "soft reboot" issue. If such a reboot is unsuccessful, then it does suffer from the "soft reboot" problem.





richsadams said:


> Yes AFAIK. I don't recall anyone saying that it would get past the welcome screen.
> 
> What bkdtv said in any case. :up:


Ok, early indications are that the most recent build of the EVDS are not going to be a problem on the Series3 or TiVo HD. There is one situation where we had a problem, and we still have to run a few tests next week, but I don't think it's going to be an issue.

WD10EVDS-63N5B1
October 23rd 2009
DCM HBRNYHT2MFB

Lou


----------



## richsadams

tivoupgrade said:


> Ok, early indications are that the most recent build of the EVDS are not going to be a problem on the Series3 or TiVo HD. There is one situation where we had a problem, and we still have to run a few tests next week, but I don't think it's going to be an issue.
> 
> WD10EVDS-63N5B1
> October 23rd 2009
> DCM HBRNYHT2MFB
> 
> Lou


Good news! :up:


----------



## dnorth12

I am bleary eyed from copying all the recordings to my iMac off my S3/Arpicorn 500G combo, but I am also almost done. Been using Tivo transfer under Popcorn 3 to batch copy. 

Not looking forward to copying back to the new S3/MyDVR 1TB. Not wanting to have to pull one by one from the iMac. Would be nice to have a batch push to the S3. Another six to seven days copying back, probably more since I can't batch it like I did on the copying, oh joy.

Tivo transfer under Popcorn 3 doesn't seem have a routine to push the files back. According to a Roxio email response to a question I posed, a Popcorn 4 upgrade would have that function. But when I emailed a question to Roxio about Popcorn 3 having the function, I got no answer. Hmmm. Do they just want me to upgrade?

So I had a thought/wish/pipedream and probably not a clue but can't I just now take the .tivo files that are copied to my iMac and copy them to the MyDVR and then plug that in to the S3 and off I go?

Probably not, drm issues or file structure that is not in place until the S3 and the MyDVR are married or some other reason. Does it have to be striped across both drives in order to play?


----------



## moscovitzd

So now that they've been out for awhile are there any reports of problems with using a WD15EVDS in a TivoHD (TCD652160)?


----------



## mellenfan

Any solution on getting the wd10eads to work on Tivo HD. This problem seems to have appeared with the recently built models of the drives.


----------



## richsadams

mellenfan said:


> Any solution on getting the wd10eads to work on Tivo HD. This problem seems to have appeared with the recently built models of the drives.


Where did you hear that? AFAIK the WD10EADS works without any issues in TiVo HD's. They do exhibit the soft reboot issue in Series3 models, but no problems w/TiVo HD's.

Perhaps you're confusing the WD10EADS with the WD10EVVS?


----------



## mellenfan

richsadams said:


> Where did you hear that? AFAIK the WD10EADS works without any issues in TiVo HD's. They do exhibit the soft reboot issue in Series3 models, but no problems w/TiVo HD's.
> 
> Perhaps you're confusing the WD10EADS with the WD10EVVS?


I have a fresh batch of wd10eads that soft reboot in the HD. I have customers reporting the same issue for machines that I upgraded for them.

Check MFSLive for other posts with same issue...


----------



## mellenfan

mellenfan said:


> I have a fresh batch of wd10eads that soft reboot in the HD. I have customers reporting the same issue for machines that I upgraded for them.
> 
> Check MFSLive for other posts with same issue...


http://www.mfslive.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=687&sid=2b0066c2ed0a197b7a41b800f14c5145&start=15


----------



## richsadams

mellenfan said:


> http://www.mfslive.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=687&sid=2b0066c2ed0a197b7a41b800f14c5145&start=15





mellenfan said:


> I have a fresh batch of wd10eads that soft reboot in the HD. I have customers reporting the same issue for machines that I upgraded for them.
> 
> Check MFSLive for other posts with same issue...


Interesting. To be clear, do you mean that you have a batch of WD10EADS that _are_ displaying the soft reboot issue? (TiVo HD hangs on the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen when using a menu restart.) If so, can you post the drive details?

I'm subscribed to the thread on Spike's forum and saw one post:



> I got reports of EADS models w/ Aug, 09 or later date stamps. I guess the problem spread to EVVS models


It's not clear if he's talking about an issue with TiVo HD's or Series3's though. Guess you'd have to ask him.

In any case, IIRC no one here has mentioned a soft reboot issue with the WD10EADS installed internally in a TiVo HD. But if there is an issue we should certainly discuss it.

Anyone here experiencing this problem? If so, can you post details (ideally the drive manufacture date, DCM, etc.) but if you can't get inside your TiVo at least when you upgraded? TIA.


----------



## wgw

bkdtv said:


> Don't worry about where it hangs, only whether it hangs.
> 
> If you can completely reboot your TiVo using Messages & Settings -> Restart or Reset TiVo, then your drive doesn't exhibit the "soft reboot" issue. If such a reboot is unsuccessful, then it does suffer from the "soft reboot" problem.


Just an FYI, the WD15EVDS will successfully soft boot ONE time after a hard boot on the S3. A second immediate soft boot will fail. Be sure to try consecutive soft boots before declaring a drive free from the soft boot issue.


----------



## freqseeker

richsadams said:


> It's not clear if he's talking about an issue with TiVo HD's or Series3's though. Guess you'd have to ask him.
> 
> In any case, IIRC no one here has mentioned a soft reboot issue with the WD10EADS installed internally in a TiVo HD. But if there is an issue we should certainly discuss it.
> 
> Anyone here experiencing this problem? If so, can you post details (ideally the drive manufacture date, DCM, etc.) but if you can't get inside your TiVo at least when you upgraded? TIA.


I can confirm the soft reboot issue using the WD10EADS.
From the drive:
S/N:WCAV50898309
MDL: WD10EADS-00M2BO
DATE: 07 Aug 2009
DCM: HANCNV2MGB

Until reading the latest posts I didn't know it had the problem. I tried two times to reboot from the Tivo menu, and both times it stuck on the "Powering Up" screen. I only waited about 15 minutes before doing the hard reboot which works fine. No other problems noted.

I don't think it is a big deal for me because the power cord is easy to reach.
Will the tivo notify of a update, or will it try to reboot and hang on the powering up screen? If it does try to reboot and it hangs on the powering up screen then future recordings will not record until a hard reboot is performed.

This is a Tivo HD TCD652160. The drive is mounted internally.

Vince.


----------



## MPSAN

freqseeker said:


> I can confirm the soft reboot issue using the WD10EADS.
> From the drive:
> S/N:WCAV50898309
> MDL: WD10EADS-00M2BO
> DATE: 07 Aug 2009
> DCM: HANCNV2MGB
> 
> Until reading the latest posts I didn't know it had the problem. I tried two times to reboot from the Tivo menu, and both times it stuck on the "Powering Up" screen. I only waited about 15 minutes before doing the hard reboot which works fine. No other problems noted.
> 
> I don't think it is a big deal for me because the power cord is easy to reach.
> Will the tivo notify of a update, or will it try to reboot and hang on the powering up screen? If it does try to reboot and it hangs on the powering up screen then future recordings will not record until a hard reboot is performed.
> 
> This is a Tivo HD TCD652160. The drive is mounted internally.
> 
> Vince.


...and the 00M2B0 is a 2 platter drive as well.


----------



## richsadams

freqseeker said:


> I can confirm the soft reboot issue using the WD10EADS.
> From the drive:
> S/N:WCAV50898309
> MDL: WD10EADS-00M2BO
> DATE: 07 Aug 2009
> DCM: HANCNV2MGB
> 
> Until reading the latest posts I didn't know it had the problem. I tried two times to reboot from the Tivo menu, and both times it stuck on the "Powering Up" screen. I only waited about 15 minutes before doing the hard reboot which works fine. No other problems noted.
> 
> I don't think it is a big deal for me because the power cord is easy to reach.
> Will the tivo notify of a update, or will it try to reboot and hang on the powering up screen? If it does try to reboot and it hangs on the powering up screen then future recordings will not record until a hard reboot is performed.
> 
> This is a Tivo HD TCD652160. The drive is mounted internally.
> 
> Vince.


Thanks for that ...good to know. Looks like the first post needs to be modified once again! Wonder why WD feels the need to keep changing things. If they're going to modify the firmware, etc. they should change the drive number IMHO.

So going forward *the WD10EADS and WD10EVVS are to be avoided*. That leaves the WD10EVDS the only recommended WD hard drive for Series3's and TiVo HD's.

TiVo software/firmware upgrades (generally once per quarter at most) are downloaded and subsequently installed at 2 a.m. local time and then TiVo will reboot. Those with the soft reboot issue will hang at the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen. Nothing will be recorded, etc. until a hard reboot (pull the plug) is performed. If folks with the soft reboot issue can live with that it shouldn't be a big deal.


----------



## jlib

freqseeker said:


> I can confirm the soft reboot issue using the WD10EADS... Will the tivo notify of a update, or will it try to reboot and hang on the powering up screen? If it does try to reboot and it hangs on the powering up screen then future recordings will not record until a hard reboot is performed.


I can't remember exactly where but on one of the system information screens it will say "pending restart" when a system update has been downloaded and is ready to be installed. So, whenever I hear of new system updates being distributed I start checking that page before shutting down for the night and manually reboot if pending.

Auto reboots are supposed to occur in the wee hours so that means you should check in the morning to make sure it is not hung. An S3 will tell you on the panel it is hung. With an HD I guess you would need to turn on the TV to see. System updates are not very frequent so it is not much more than a minor annoyance. There is no other effect on performance.


----------



## richsadams

jlib said:


> I can't remember exactly where but on one of the system information screens it will say "pending restart" when a system update has been downloaded and is ready to be installed. So, whenever I hear of new system updates being distributed I start checking that page before shutting down for the night and manually reboot if pendiing.


That's good advice for anyone with the soft reboot problem. If you're aware an update has been released into the wild you can check the "Last status" line on the Network Connection screen or the System Information screen. If it says "Pending restart" you can pull the plug, wait ten seconds and plug it back in. TiVo will perform the update immediately and once completed attempt to reboot. Once it's cycled to the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen you can pull the plug and plug it back in again to make things right.


----------



## mellenfan

In my case even a hard reboot left the Tivo hanging on the welcome screen. I did adjust the acoustics to the lowest settings...initially the drive has acoustics "disabled."

Is there a way to load a previous firmware version to the WD's?


----------



## moxie1617

mellenfan said:


> Is there a way to load a previous firmware version to the WD's?


It can be done, WD, thru Dell, supplied drive firmware for the WD drives in my Dell server.


----------



## jlib

Right, but the tools to do that and the firmware itself are generally not available to the general public for discretional use.

I wish WD would just put the TiVos in their QA lab since they already have a OEM relationship with TiVo anyway.


----------



## dswallow

richsadams said:


> Wonder why WD feels the need to keep changing things. If they're going to modify the firmware, etc. they should change the drive number IMHO.


Actually throughout this discussion I keep wondering what in the world TiVo is doing that's so completely unlike any common industry standard disk drive interface method that the slightest firmware change by most any drive manufacturer causes significant usability problems for TiVo units, but not for most PC's running any OS, including umpteen-zillion flavors of Linux/Unix.


----------



## tivoupgrade

dswallow said:


> Actually throughout this discussion I keep wondering what in the world TiVo is doing that's so completely unlike any common industry standard disk drive interface method that the slightest firmware change by most any drive manufacturer causes significant usability problems for TiVo units, but not for most PC's running any OS, including umpteen-zillion flavors of Linux/Unix.


Does seem like they may be a little out-of-sync. My guess is that they've done some tuning or built some custom hardware does not use the hardware in as generic a way as most commodity products do.

What I'm wondering is if that is in fact the case, are they working closely enough with WD to ensure that their own units are not affected by something like this. Perhaps they work with WD to ensure that whatever firmware is on the drives if 'frozen' in place for their builds or until new revs are QA'd.


----------



## mellenfan

I have a case logged with WD. I need to contact level 2 support tomorrow to see loading previous firmware version on these drives.

The drive with the problem is wd10eads-00M2B0.

The previous version was wd10eads-00L5B1.


----------



## MPSAN

mellenfan said:


> I have a case logged with WD. I need to contact level 2 support tomorrow to see loading previous firmware version on these drives.
> 
> The drive with the problem is wd10eads-00M2B0.
> 
> The previous version was wd10eads-00L5B1.


I do not know if version is the correct word here. Configuration may be a better description.

ie...

WD10EADS-00M2B0 = Two 500gb platters
WD10EADS-00L5B1= Three 334gb platters

Have there been "hangs" with BOTH configurations? ie both Two AND Three platter drives?


----------



## richsadams

dswallow said:


> Actually throughout this discussion I keep wondering what in the world TiVo is doing that's so completely unlike any common industry standard disk drive interface method that the slightest firmware change by most any drive manufacturer causes significant usability problems for TiVo units, but not for most PC's running any OS, including umpteen-zillion flavors of Linux/Unix.


That's a very good point...looking at it from a different perspective.



MPSAN said:


> Have there been "hangs" with BOTH configurations? ie both Two AND Three platter drives?


I'll go out on a limb and say no. The two-platter drives have only been out a short time correct? But again, as others have questioned, what's TiVo doing that's so different as to cause either partial or complete "failure" when WD makes a change when the drives appear to be compatible with most/all other applications?


----------



## freqseeker

richsadams said:


> TiVo software/firmware upgrades (generally once per quarter at most) are downloaded and subsequently installed at 2 a.m. local time and then TiVo will reboot. Those with the soft reboot issue will hang at the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen. Nothing will be recorded, etc. until a hard reboot (pull the plug) is performed. If folks with the soft reboot issue can live with that it shouldn't be a big deal.


That's what I figured. Not a big deal to me. Even if I change drives, I can use this one for my future computer upgrade. I will continue to monitor this thread.

Thanks.
Vince.


----------



## mellenfan

So WD tech support gave me the wrong info....they indicated the suffix at the end of the model number referred to the firmware version. 

So, trying to get a previous version of the firmware is useless since the physical drive is different (number of platters). 

Anyone know what drive is on the XL??


----------



## richsadams

mellenfan said:


> Anyone know what drive is on the XL??


IIRC TiVo HDXL's were last reported to be using a WD10EVVS. (The drive that post 09/20/09 manufacture date no longer works in Series3's and TiVo HD's.)


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> That's a very good point...looking at it from a different perspective.
> 
> I'll go out on a limb and say no. The two-platter drives have only been out a short time correct? But again, as others have questioned, what's TiVo doing that's so different as to cause either partial or complete "failure" when WD makes a change when the drives appear to be compatible with most/all other applications?


To answer both of you....Rich and dswallow:

First. it is possible that the Firmware (FW) is the same for both the 2 and 3 platter configurations. There can be a jumper on the drive electronics, or, more likely, the FW can determine the configuration and load the proper code.

Second, when people ask "Just what is TiVo doing to cause this" they could be trying to get the maximum use out of some spec that the drive has. I can't get into details here but on "big iron" computers  that is an ongoing issue. For example, someone could (and did) write a mainframe program (run under MVS for the true geeks out there) that did something very fast. They looked at the DASD specs and took advantage of them. Suddenly, we started getting customers (BIG Customers) who claimed there were issues...not unlike what is going on with the WD drive(s) now. No matter how much we tested, all was OK, but a few customers kept having issues.

Here is what we found out...only after I asked to buy this Software (and we are not talking PC's here). The drives we sold were supposed to be compatible with a very big mainframe company and WERE compatible. HOWEVER, there was a minor specification where we were just a little slower...on the low side of the spec. Since MOST software did not care, it worked fine. However, this one piece of very high performance software depended on this being correct. That is why there were issues with the drives...but only with that software.

So, what this means is that TiVo "may" be doing something in the TiVo OS that depends on a drive having a certain spec. IF WD changed the FW to cause even the smallest change, it may be that the drive(s) are fine for everything but the TiVo.

Sorry I rambled, but just thought a few of you may want a reason this may happen. WD may have given TiVo new FW that would correct this issue, but feel that we are not supposed to be "upgrading" our TiVo's anyway and may not acknowledge the "bug" to us!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> To answer both of you....Rich and dswallow:


Good insight...and makes perfect sense. Seems odd though that whatever the spec that it only applies to certain WD drives (some of which TiVo doesn't use at all) and not at all to the other brands folks are using successfully. AFAIK no one using the earlier or other WD models or other brands are reporting any performance issues. I would think that improving performance would be the goal of any company (such as the one you described) tweaking the FW.

Soooo...that basically means that our choices are being whittled down to only a few drives that are acceptable (at least to us).

All of this is making my brain hurt.


----------



## MPSAN

Yup....also the spec can be something obscure like Head Settling time, minimum seek time or things like head switching time and not ready to ready timing. Others can be write current as a function of cylinder number and a ton of other things that can be right on the edge. At any rate there are a ton of others but I said too much already!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Yup....also the spec can be something obscure like Head Settling time, minimum seek time or things like head switching time and not ready to ready timing. <snip>


Ugh...anyone have any motion sickness pills?


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Ugh...anyone have any motion sickness pills?


...and this doesn't even take into account the "superaerogalvanicrepulsifiers"


----------



## JasonRossSmith

MPSAN said:


> ..."superaerogalvanicrepulsifiers"...


great-flying-electric-desgustors?

On a side note, I bought one of those WD10EADS drives from Fry's for $60 last week (week before?), after checking here. Boy am I glad I came back to check the thread again before doing the work of the upgrade. From recent posts I'm betting the drive I got (wd10eads-00M2B0) won't work in my Tivo HD (Model TCD652160).

That sucks sweaty donkey balls...

For the price premium, and ease I'm seriously thinking screw it I'll just get one from that DVR-Dude on e-bay. He's claiming true plug/play on a full 1.5TB drive for only $160 with no reboot problems:


Dear Jason,

Here are answers to your questions:
1) Yes it's P&P
2) It's a replacement drive so you will have to setup your TiVo as if you got a new one
3) Yes It's P&P
4)This drive has no reboot issues
5)This drive does not have soft reboot problem

- dvr_dude Did this answer your question? If not, let the seller know.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jason
To: dvr_dude
Subject: You've received a question about your eBay item, TiVo Drive Upgrade TiVoHD, TiVo Series 3 New P&P 1.5TB
Sent Date: Nov-08-09 09:19:05 PST

Dear dvr_dude,

I've done extensive research on TivoCommunity.com, and MFSLive.org and don't see DIY tools to create a drive upgrade for the TivoHD (Model TCD652160) that is bigger than 1.25TB.

I know your item description says this is 1.5TB for the TivoHD. However, before purchasing I would like to verify this will meet all of my needs:

1)Plug and Play for my TivoHD (Model TCD652160).
2)I am ok with having to repeat guided setup, recreate my season passes, and that my existing programs will not be on the new drive.
3)Other than #2 above, I want this to be a "plug and play" upgrade.
4)I do NOT want to deal with the reboot issues described on TivoCommunity.com and MFSLive.org
5)I do NOT want to deal with problems when Tivo upgrades the software as they do periodically.

Essentially I want my TivoHD (Model TCD652160) to operate as it always has, just have more recording space.

Thanks!

Jason​
Anyone have any experience with him or with the samsung drives he's using. He has great ratings so I'm thinking he's a stand up.... er.... dude?


----------



## dswallow

MPSAN said:


> To answer both of you....Rich and dswallow:
> 
> First. it is possible that the Firmware (FW) is the same for both the 2 and 3 platter configurations. There can be a jumper on the drive electronics, or, more likely, the FW can determine the configuration and load the proper code.
> 
> Second, when people ask "Just what is TiVo doing to cause this" they could be trying to get the maximum use out of some spec that the drive has. I can't get into details here but on "big iron" computers  that is an ongoing issue. For example, someone could (and did) write a mainframe program (run under MVS for the true geeks out there) that did something very fast. They looked at the DASD specs and took advantage of them. Suddenly, we started getting customers (BIG Customers) who claimed there were issues...not unlike what is going on with the WD drive(s) now. No matter how much we tested, all was OK, but a few customers kept having issues.
> 
> Here is what we found out...only after I asked to buy this Software (and we are not talking PC's here). The drives we sold were supposed to be compatible with a very big mainframe company and WERE compatible. HOWEVER, there was a minor specification where we were just a little slower...on the low side of the spec. Since MOST software did not care, it worked fine. However, this one piece of very high performance software depended on this being correct. That is why there were issues with the drives...but only with that software.
> 
> So, what this means is that TiVo "may" be doing something in the TiVo OS that depends on a drive having a certain spec. IF WD changed the FW to cause even the smallest change, it may be that the drive(s) are fine for everything but the TiVo.
> 
> Sorry I rambled, but just thought a few of you may want a reason this may happen. WD may have given TiVo new FW that would correct this issue, but feel that we are not supposed to be "upgrading" our TiVo's anyway and may not acknowledge the "bug" to us!


Nice thought but we've already pretty much dismissed any chance of this since TiVo doesn't even make use of any of the A/V features; they use the drive as a plain vanilla IDE device. The only real concern anyone has is noise level; and even at the most time-consuming acoustic management settings, any current SATA drive far exceeds any required specs to service 3 HD write streams and 1 HD read stream simultaneously.

The only thing we really know for sure is that in the case of external plug and play drives and the TiVo HD models, TiVo specifically looks for certain signatures in the firmware and chooses to fail to work with any but a small number of specific drives.


----------



## MPSAN

dswallow said:


> Nice thought but we've already pretty much dismissed any chance of this since TiVo doesn't even make use of any of the A/V features; they use the drive as a plain vanilla IDE device. The only real concern anyone has is noise level; and even at the most time-consuming acoustic management settings, any current SATA drive far exceeds any required specs to service 3 HD write streams and 1 HD read stream simultaneously.
> 
> The only thing we really know for sure is that in the case of external plug and play drives and the TiVo HD models, TiVo specifically looks for certain signatures in the firmware and chooses to fail to work with any but a small number of specific drives.


OK, but what I was saying was that there are many more specs other than data rate.

One that can also cause issues is the not ready to ready time of a rezero command...perhaps used in a soft boot. Anyway, this is beyond what people want to see in this thread so I will go back to just reading it.


----------



## lew

JasonRossSmith said:


> great-flying-electric-desgustors?
> 
> On a side note, I bought one of those WD10EADS drives from Fry's for $60 last week (week before?), after checking here. Boy am I glad I came back to check the thread again before doing the work of the upgrade. From recent posts I'm betting the drive I got (wd10eads-00M2B0) won't work in my Tivo HD (Model TCD652160).
> 
> That sucks sweaty donkey balls...
> 
> For the price premium, and ease I'm seriously thinking screw it I'll just get one from that DVR-Dude on e-bay. He's claiming true plug/play on a full 1.5TB drive for only $160 with no reboot problems:
> 
> 
> Dear Jason,
> 
> ​




Does your cable system pair your cable cards? You'll have to contact your cable company "re-pair" your cards if you with with any P&P solution.​


----------



## jlib

JasonRossSmith said:


> ...Anyone have any experience with him or with the samsung drives he's using. ...


No experience with him or the drive but Spike said the method was one of the legitimate ways to achieve > 1.1TB expansion.

Comcast in my area lets 1st level CSRs re-pair Cable Cards over the phone now so it is not the nightmare we all remember from the initial install (get the serial numbers off the back of the cards and the associated numbers from the Cable Card screen).

Losing existing Season Passes and recordings is the only shortcoming I can think of. Also, I would rather not support someone who keeps the info on how to do it so close to the chest, especially since he is standing on the back of much greater contributors to the TiVo community.


----------



## richsadams

jlib said:


> No experience with him or the drive but Spike said the method was one of the legitimate ways to achieve > 1.1TB expansion.
> 
> Also, I would rather not support someone who keeps the info on how to do it so close to the chest, especially since he is standing on the back of much greater contributors to the TiVo community.


So it's not so much of a secret as more of a PIA. It's a matter of really knowing your way around the landscape and a good understanding of the source code. AFAIK it can be done by anyone that's really, _really_ interested.

Unless the ebay seller is buying drives by the truck load his margins are very thin but apparently worth it (and will improve as drive costs drop). There are a few posts here from people that have purchased his drives and seem to be happy with them.

Perhaps Spike will take the time to build out winMFS to handle 2TB drives one of these days...but he doesn't even accept donations so I don't think we can fault him for not rushing things...or someone else that makes it happen. I'm sure there are folks out there that feel like the upgrades we do on a regular basis are very mysterious; full of smoke and mirrors. But we know better.


----------



## lrhorer

MPSAN said:


> Second, when people ask "Just what is TiVo doing to cause this" they could be trying to get the maximum use out of some spec that the drive has.


'Extremely unlikely. I haven't witnessed the problem personally, but my understanding is the symptom is a hang at the "Powering up" screen. The first thing the system does after starting to load the kernel is to splash the "Just a few more minutes" screen. Although the kernel is a custom build, it is pretty much a very plain vanilla Linux 2.4 kernel with all the fancy stuff left out and a few simple modules loaded. (The TiVo kernel is nothing like a new kernel, BTW. The current stable kernel is 2.6.31.6.) In short, if the "Just a few more minutes" screen doesn't come up, then it is almost surely a hardware issue. Of course, what it might be, I'm really not sure, so I could be mistaken, but the fact a hard boot succeeds while a soft boot does not makes it even more likely. If I were to guess, I would say the drive is going into a power saving mode during the shutdown and the Tivo is not issuing a spin-up command, but it's a pure WAG, and I'm not happy with it.



MPSAN said:


> So, what this means is that TiVo "may" be doing something in the TiVo OS that depends on a drive having a certain spec.


That I can almost guratantee is not the case. I could absolutely guarantee it if someone with one of these drives would care to load a custom kernel from scratch or else post the output from the TiVo kernel during a boot cycle.



MPSAN said:


> Sorry I rambled, but just thought a few of you may want a reason this may happen. WD may have given TiVo new FW that would correct this issue, but feel that we are not supposed to be "upgrading" our TiVo's anyway and may not acknowledge the "bug" to us!


That's a different question.


----------



## richsadams

lrhorer said:


> 'Extremely unlikely. I haven't witnessed the problem personally,


Interesting thoughts. The soft reboot issue means that during a menu restart (or TiVo upgrade) TiVo will power up and display the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen then hang. Generally that means that the motherboard cannot communicate with the hard drive as that is part of the Kernel correct? Otherwise the drive will in fact boot up with a hard reboot...unplugging TiVo and plugging it back in.

I have two of those drives (both used as a backups for a couple of my Macs now). One is an early WD GP drive and the other is a newer Samsung Spinpoint (a 7200RPM, non-green model). During both a hard and soft reboot I can hear the drives fully spin up (and feel the full-tilt gyroscope effect in my hand). They begin a series of seeks/reads and act responsibly through the full boot up process. However during a soft reboot they fully spin up, run four to a half-dozen seeks and then stop. I could certainly be wrong but based on that I don't think it's a power saving problem but more likely a firmware issue.

Others here have used a fresh image, Instant Cake, on the problematic drives and even then they continue to display the soft reboot issue.

There is something about the drives in question, including some of the originals like the WD10EADS which only displayed the soft reboot issues in Series3's, but more recently also exhibit the same problem in TiVo HD's, as well as the newer WD10EVVS which worked fine in both models until the manufacture date of 09/20/09. WD is up to something and TiVo cannot deal with it, whatever it might be. Not that it's going to change anything, but any more thoughts? This is intriguing (at least to me) for some odd reason. TIA.


----------



## JasonRossSmith

lew said:


> Does your cable system pair your cable cards? You'll have to contact your cable company "re-pair" your cards if you with with any P&P solution.


I'm not sure how the local Omaha Cable Co's do cable cards, but I am strictly OTA so that isn't an issue for me.



jlib said:


> No experience with him or the drive but Spike said the method was one of the legitimate ways to achieve > 1.1TB expansion.


Good to know, at least we know it works. He did have good ratings from his buyers too.



jlib said:


> Losing existing Season Passes and recordings is the only shortcoming I can think of.


Yes, I anticipate this and while I don't love it, I'm thinking that is less of a hassle for me than doing the upgrade myself. Especially with it being so easy to set the season passes on line, using a real keyboard...



jlib said:


> Also, I would rather not support someone who keeps the info on how to do it so close to the chest, especially since he is standing on the back of much greater contributors to the TiVo community.


This is admittedly a concern of mine as well. Part of me dislikes a single individual commercializing the work of others. Part of me understands that he likely put significant effort into figuring that out and maybe he's trying to help the community without it taking over his life. I can see both sides but definitely think about this.



richsadams said:


> So it's not so much of a secret as more of a PIA. It's a matter of really knowing your way around the landscape and a good understanding of the source code. AFAIK it can be done by anyone that's really, _really_ interested.
> 
> Unless the ebay seller is buying drives by the truck load his margins are very thin but apparently worth it (and will improve as drive costs drop). There are a few posts here from people that have purchased his drives and seem to be happy with them.
> 
> Perhaps Spike will take the time to build out winMFS to handle 2TB drives one of these days...but he doesn't even accept donations so I don't think we can fault him for not rushing things...or someone else that makes it happen. I'm sure there are folks out there that feel like the upgrades we do on a regular basis are very mysterious; full of smoke and mirrors. But we know better.


Rich kind of (more eloquently) sums up my thoughts here. While I sure wish I could just download a utility to do this for me, I certainly can't blame someone who does the heavy lifting for getting something in return.

On a side note, Tivo in and of itself kind of did this same thing... they took GPU linux code, tweaked it, added to it, then packaged it added their own security etc and sold it. Did they then patent it hold it close and then sell it? Sure. Do they provide a service that is of value to me because it is simple and easy for me? Yes. I know it's not exactly the same thing, but...

Thanks Everyone!


----------



## richsadams

JasonRossSmith said:


> On a side note, Tivo in and of itself kind of did this same thing... they took GPU linux code, tweaked it, added to it, then packaged it added their own security etc and sold it. Did they then patent it hold it close and then sell it? Sure. Do they provide a service that is of value to me because it is simple and easy for me? Yes. I know it's not exactly the same thing, but...


That's a good point as well. :up:


----------



## [email protected]

First of all I'd like to thank bkdtv for all the info.

I swapped out my original drive for a WD10EVDS following the instructions in the first post. Everything appeared to go fine. 

After restarting the few recordings I had were listed but not there to replay.

In addition it is still showing only up to 36 HD hours in System Info.

What did I do wrong?

Thanks


----------



## CraigK

[email protected] said:


> First of all I'd like to thank bkdtv for all the info.
> 
> I swapped out my original drive for a WD10EVDS following the instructions in the first post. Everything appeared to go fine.
> 
> After restarting the few recordings I had were listed but not there to replay.


Which kind of upgrade did you do?

If it was *TiVo Internal Upgrade Instructions: Preserves Settings Only* you end up with a bunch of phantom shows in your *Now Playing* list as well as in the *Recently Deleted* folder that you just have to delete to clear the list(s). Using this type of upgrade your recorded shows are not copied to the new hard drive, but the TiVo software still thinks they are there.

If you used *TiVo Internal Upgrade Instructions: Preserves Settings and Recordings* the settings as well as existing recordings and deleted shows should be there.


----------



## [email protected]

Ok I did do the Preserve Settings Only, no big deal, but why is only showing 36 HD hours?


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> This is intriguing (at least to me) for some odd reason. TIA.


OK, another thing could be the way the TiVo controller reacts. I KNOW that on some PC's there can be drive/software/OS issues. Lots of problems that do survive reboots. However, I have seen some clear up when you log off and TURN Power OFF on the PC. Can the TiVo have an HDD controller that does not like a spec in the new firmware? In this case, powering off the TiVo will do a reset that perhaps a soft reboot does not do. This "could" be a housekeeping issue that was always there in the TiVo. This is always an issue when these things happen...is it the Drive or the TiVo? Also, one can say it worked before, so it must be something WD did with new FW...but it could also be a gap in the TiVo OS/HDD Controller that was an issue just waiting to happen. Believe me, I have been there, done that, and even have the T-Shirt(s) and airline mileage!


----------



## mcmnky

moscovitzd said:


> So now that they've been out for awhile are there any reports of problems with using a WD15EVDS in a TivoHD (TCD652160)?


I've had a WD15EVDS in my TiVoHD for about 2 weeks. I have no issues at all, running cool and quiet.


----------



## lrhorer

richsadams said:


> Interesting thoughts. The soft reboot issue means that during a menu restart (or TiVo upgrade) TiVo will power up and display the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen then hang. Generally that means that the motherboard cannot communicate with the hard drive as that is part of the Kernel correct?


Essentially correct. As with all PCs, there is a boot loader which looks for a boot image in certain specific areas of the drive and then begins loading from the area specified by the information found there. If the boot loader cannot find the boot record or the boot image - for whatever reason - the system does not boot.



richsadams said:


> I have two of those drives (both used as a backups for a couple of my Macs now). One is an early WD GP drive and the other is a newer Samsung Spinpoint (a 7200RPM, non-green model). During both a hard and soft reboot I can hear the drives fully spin up (and feel the full-tilt gyroscope effect in my hand). They begin a series of seeks/reads and act responsibly through the full boot up process. However during a soft reboot they fully spin up, run four to a half-dozen seeks and then stop.


'Interesting. You might try powering up the drives without the data connector attached to see if there is a difference. The apparent seeks could be part of the drive's power-up routine. Or not.



richsadams said:


> I could certainly be wrong but based on that I don't think it's a power saving problem but more likely a firmware issue.


The two are not necessarily different, and are definitely not mutually exclusive. Really, to do any firm diagnostics, someone with a serial port installed needs to take a look at the boot output. If someone can report the contents of the system logs, it might help, as well. If the kernel is not loading at all, as I suspect, then of course the logs will be empty, but their being empty is in and of itself somewhat significant. OTOH, if the logs have anything at all in them, then the kernel is loading. The /var directory (where the logs are kept) is not mounted until after Kickstart initialization. Here is a listing of /etc/rc.d:

drwxr-xr-x 2 0 0 3072 Jul 15 07:06 StageA_PreKickstart
drwxr-xr-x 2 0 0 1024 Jul 15 07:06 StageB_PostKickstart
drwxr-xr-x 2 0 0 3072 Jul 15 07:06 StageC_MediaInitialization
drwxr-xr-x 2 0 0 3072 Jul 15 07:06 StageD_PreMfs
drwxr-xr-x 2 0 0 1024 Jul 15 07:06 StageE_PreApplication
drwxr-xr-x 2 0 0 1024 Jul 15 07:06 StageF_ApplicationLaunch
drwxr-xr-x 2 0 0 1024 Jul 15 07:06 StageG_PostApplication
-rwxr-xr-x 1 0 0 1510 Jun 30 19:20 rc.arch
-rwxr-xr-x 1 0 0 3463 Jun 30 19:20 rc.sysinit
-r-xr-xr-x 1 0 0 207 Jul 20 2008 rc.sysinit.author

The files in StageA_PreKickstart are run first, then those in StageB_PostKickstart. The second file to be run there is rc.Sequence_100.MountVar.sh whose contents are:

bash-2.02# cat rc.Sequence_100.MountVar.sh
##############################################################################
#
# File: rc.MountAndCleanupVar.sh
#
# Description: Stage B system startup script fragment
# Prepare /var for mounting and mount it.
# Note that if rc.CleanupVar.sh finds /var too full,
# it may unmount, rebuild it, and remount it!
#
# Environment:
#
# Copyright (c) 2003 TiVo Inc.
#
#############################################################################

echo "Cleanup $varpartition pass 1"
if /sbin/e2fsck -p $varpartition ; then
echo "$varpartition is clean"
else
echo "Cleanup $varpartition pass 2"
if /sbin/e2fsck -p $varpartition ; then
echo "$varpartition is clean after pass 2"
else
echo "Can't clean $varpartition - rebuilding"
/sbin/mke2fs -c $varpartition
fi
fi

echo "Mounting /var"
mount -v -n /var

# We set TMK_LOGMIN earlier to keep messages from flooding the console
# before syslogd had been started. Restore or unset it here,
# depending on whether there was a previous value (should we unset it
# right before/after we start syslogd?).
if [ "$TMK_LOGMIN_PREV" != "" ]
then
export TMK_LOGMIN="$TMK_LOGMIN_PREV"
unset TMK_LOGMIN_PREV
else
unset TMK_LOGMIN
fi


----------



## richsadams

lrhorer said:


> Essentially correct. <snip>


Wow! Great feedback, but you had me at "essentially"...or maybe lost me there. Between you and MPSAN I'm pretty much out of my league now. I admit I only know just enough to be dangerous. I'd have to reach back to my Linux server days/knowledge to try and determine exactly what might be happening and since the drives I mentioned are doing well as backups now I don't think I'll tinker with them...although it's tempting. Perhaps some others are willing to contribute? Still not sure what it'll get us, but I'm still curious as to what it is that's causing the newer WD drives to not function like their older siblings...and what about them is different than some of the other brands that continue to work such as Hitachi, Seagate, etc.?  That'll keep me occupied until something else shiny comes along.


----------



## eaayoung

I was just about ready to give up on installing a new WD 1TB drive in my S3 since I could not get MinMFS to find the destination drive. Tried to access the drive several time as suggested without success. Ran MinMFS via administrator as well. Finally got it to work by writing zeros (via WD format program & the Quick version) over the new drive. I guess I shouldn't have used it in my computer for the past week to see if it would fail! Maybe a Windows 7 issue. 

Anyway, MinMFS is preparing the new drive. 

Keeping my fingers crossed!


----------



## eaayoung

Done!

My S3 is now showing 143HD hours available. Everything seems to be as it should with all of my shows, Season Passes, deleted shows, suggestions preserved. And no soft-boot issues noted with the WD10EVDS. Start to finish, this project took around 4 hours.

WinMFS works as advertised. Although the problem I had finding the destination drive was a bit of headache and had me stump for a good 30-45 minutes. And the part in the instructions regarding expanding the drive threw me a curve since I thought the process would be completed after Mfscopy was completed. _*Note for anyone upgrading your drive: Between steps 15 and 16, plan on an hour as WinMFS expands your drive!*_

If you have both a Tuning Adapter and external drive installed, and your having problems with the Tuning Adapter, consider dumping the external drive. My Tuning Adapter got to the point were it was rebooting weekly and sometimes even daily. Until the case on the MyDVR expander drive took its last breath and died (and even the actually drive inside the case), I couldn't determine what was causing problems. I figured it was just the crappy Tuning Adapter technology. Once I divorced the drive from the S3, everything started to work as designed. Replacing the internal drive may be the way to go if you have a Tuning Adapter.

To all who made this possible, thank you so much! And especially to Rich for his constant vigilance of this thread and his kind words of encouragement and support!


----------



## jonra

Done too! 

I upgraded to the WD10EVDS yesterday afternoon. I had to temporarily disconnect the CDROM & esata plugs so I could plug in the two drives & maintain my boot drive. Careful if you have a mirror & don't unplug on of the two mirrored hard drives. Your software will take over and start writing to your new larger TIVO drive. That happened to me and I had to reformat the WD10EVDS and start over. It took longer to do. Other that that everything worked great! Next time it'll take no longer than two hours.

This WD10EVDS is amazing. It is incredibly cool, unbelievably quiet, & very efficient. I turned on supersize & I now have 157 HD hours. I was able to copy all my settings and about 15 hours of HD & all my SD recordings from my original factory hard drive.

Next week I will I will disconnect MyDVR expander from my other TIVO HD and also upgrade it to the WD10EVDS. My other factory TivoHD sounds like a freight train compared to the TIVO HD with the WD10EVDS.

Also thanks to Rich & everyone here. Great Forum!


----------



## eaayoung

I thought I turned on Super size??? But mine is reporting only 143 hours. I must not have actually turned it on. Maybe (keeping my fingers crossed) it's the software on the TIVO. I couldn't update the software via my network after the upgrade. Beats 35 hours I had via the original 250 gig drive.

Another job for another day!


----------



## bowlingblogger

eaayoung said:


> I thought I turned on Super size??? But mine is reporting only 143 hours. I must not have actually turned it on.


The same thing happened to me when I originally tried WinMFS with my WD10EVVS. I know I selected SuperSize, but when I put it in the Tivo it only reported 143 hours. I'm not sure what I did wrong, but I took the drive out and hooked it up to my computer again and enabled SuperSize again and then it reported 157 hours in my Tivo. You can do the same thing and it shouldn't change any settings or recordings you've added since doing the upgrade.


----------



## bkdtv

eaayoung said:


> I thought I turned on Super size??? But mine is reporting only 143 hours. I must not have actually turned it on. Maybe (keeping my fingers crossed) it's the software on the TIVO. I couldn't update the software via my network after the upgrade. Beats 35 hours I had via the original 250 gig drive.





bowlingblogger said:


> I know I selected SuperSize, but when I put it in the Tivo it only reported 143 hours. I'm not sure what I did wrong, but I took the drive out and hooked it up to my computer again and enabled SuperSize again and then it reported 157 hours in my Tivo. You can do the same thing and it shouldn't change any settings or recordings you've added since doing the upgrade.


You have to follow the instructions carefully. If you skip the _File -> Select Drive_ in step #16 (yes, you have to do it a second time), then MfsSupersize won't work.


----------



## bowlingblogger

bkdtv said:


> You have to follow the instructions carefully. If you skip the _File -> Select Drive_ in step #16 (yes, you have to do it a second time), then MfsSupersize won't work.


I'll bet that's what I did!


----------



## eaayoung

Do I have to install both drives in the computer to turn on WinMFS Supersize? Or can this be accomplished by installing only my new replacement drive in the computer? 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## ajayabb

eaayoung said:


> Do I have to install both drives in the computer to turn on WinMFS Supersize? Or can this be accomplished by installing only my new replacement drive in the computer?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


You just need to attach the upgraded drive


----------



## richsadams

Excellent to hear that everyone is doing well and welcome to the "Big Boys Club".


----------



## Len McRiddles

Helped a friend biggie size his 2 HD's this weekend with WD10EVDS drives. Went very well without a single hitch.


----------



## tom-el

I've been reading through this thread for a couple of days now (so much info), as I've been trying to solve a freezing problem with my TiVoHD. I blessed my first S1 in 2000 with second/larger hard drive and network, several more since. In June, 2008 I bought this TiVoHD and pulled the 160gb drive for a Seagate barracuda ST31000340AS. It worked perfectly until recently when it developed a habit of freezing in mid-playback. It then waits about 15 seconds and goes to the power up screen and freezes there permanently until a hard reboot. This happens at the same spot in any corrupted recording every time. If I skip the bad spot it plays the remainder.

I picked up a 1tb WD Caviar drive at BB. It's a WD10000CSRTL (on the box), aka WD10EADS (on the drive). I thought it would be a good quiet, low heat choice until I started reading this thread.

First, I decided to do a test on the old drive. Hooked up the drive to the computer I use for tests by way of internal sata. Ran WD's DLG test program on the Seagate and it failed the quick test with a consistent "electrical error", the read test freezes at the same block every time. Locked up the hardware, consistently had to kill the task -- explains why the TiVo freezes. Problem identified, drive went south.

I tried the WD10EADS with a backup from the Seagate -- it went right in, but then it rebooted in the middle of going through its intro dance. It went to the powering up screen, and then it went GSOD. Tried it a couple of times (reloading the image each time) and got nowhere. I restored it from the original 160gb drive image, went through guided setup, FIOS cable card worked automatically, loaded lineups, and is up and running for about 12 hours now. Soft reset 3 times with no problems. Looks ok so far, but a week from now I'll feel better. It _is_ cool and quiet, though....

One thing -- I turned on supersize and it showed 144 HD/1367 SD hours (expected 157/1367?), so I pulled the drive, reran supersize (WinMFS being careful to select the drive, etc. and still 144/1367. The SD number seems larger, but the HD number...?

BTW -- I used two WD drives to upgrade two S1's back when hard drives were more costly and had longer warranties. Both drives worked perfectly until 2-4 months after the warranty (3 years) expired. They failed within 6 weeks of each other....

Thanks for all the info, software, and help that comes from this forum/thread.

Thanks again,
tom-el


----------



## richsadams

tom-el said:


> I restored it from the original 160gb drive image, went through guided setup, FIOS cable card worked automatically, loaded lineups, and is up and running for about 12 hours now. Soft reset 3 times with no problems. Looks ok so far, but a week from now I'll feel better. It _is_ cool and quiet, though....


Welcome to the forum and glad to hear things are back to normal again. I wasn't clear if Supersizing worked or not...you should have 157 HD hours. If not, you can run it again without risking any recordings or settings.

Enjoy!


----------



## tom-el

Rich,

I turned on Supersize when I restored the drive. Back in the TiVo it said 144/1367. I thought it hadn't taken so I put the drive back in the PC and did it again. WinMFS said Supersize was already on. What I didn't try was to shut it off and turn it back on.

Just a little puzzling....


----------



## lew

My memory is 144 HD hours is the size reported by older versions of tivo software with supersized 1T drives.

http://mfslive.org/winmfs/images/tivohd_1tb_supersized.jpg


----------



## Fortynine

I purchased the 1 TB Western Digital WD10EVDS as a replacement drive for the original 250GB drive in my Series 3. I went through the installation process using WinMFS to preserve both the settings and recordings on the original Tivo drive. However, when I put everything back together and started up the Tivo all that came up was the 'Welcome - Powering Up' screen on which the unit remained fixated on.

Any clues as to what may be wrong or a work around for this problem?


----------



## flatcurve

Fortynine said:


> I purchased the 1 TB Western Digital WD10EVDS as a replacement drive for the original 250GB drive in my Series 3. I went through the installation process using WinMFS to preserve both the settings and recordings on the original Tivo drive. However, when I put everything back together and started up the Tivo all that came up was the 'Welcome - Powering Up' screen on which the unit remained fixated on.
> 
> Any clues as to what may be wrong or a work around for this problem?


Did you run diagnostics on your original drive to make sure that it didn't have any problems?


----------



## tom-el

My software version was 9.4. The image I used was from over a year ago.... I forced an update to 11.0d and 157/1367. 

Nice catch, Lew!


----------



## Fortynine

No. I did not run any diagnostics on my original drive. How wold I do that?
In any event, I put the original drive back in the Tivo box and indeed it starts up normally with no problems.

I'm wondering if I should go through the installation/setup process again.

Thanks


----------



## flatcurve

Fortynine said:


> No. I did not run any diagnostics on my original drive. How wold I do that?
> In any event, I put the original drive back in the Tivo box and indeed it starts up normally with no problems.
> 
> I'm wondering if I should go through the installation/setup process again.
> 
> Thanks


Download one of the free diagnostic tools from WD here:

http://support.wdc.com/product/download.asp?groupid=607&lang=en


----------



## Fortynine

Thanks for the link. I ran the test and there were no problems found on the original Tivo drive. I think I'll try a re-install and see if that changes anything.


----------



## CraigK

Decided to replace the Seagate ST31000322CS 1TB drive in one of our TiVo HDs with a quieter WD10EVDS. 

I ran diagnostics on the new WD drive overnight along with moving the shows we needed to save temporarily to our other TiVo HD that already has a WD10EVDS.

I ran the Preserve Settings Only version of WinMFS this morning. First doing a truncated backup of the Seagate drive then restoring to the WD10EVDS with supersize.

When I booted the TiVo it went from Powering Up to Almost There to Powering Up to a GSOD telling me it could take 3 hours to attempt a fix.

Since this is my wife's TiVo and I'm on a deadline  I decided to try again. Same result even making a new copy of the Seagate drive.

On a whim I decided to try using an image from the original 160G TiVo drive and this time everything went well. 

Since the image is about a month old the TiVo has to get all the guide data and I have to make a few changes to the Season Pass list. Luckily I wrote everything down before starting the upgrade.

Not sure why it wouldn't work from the Seagate image. It got me wondering if it had something to do with them both being 1TB drives. It still asked me if I wanted to expand the drive and let me Supersize it.

Maybe if I'd let the TiVo do the repair everything would have worked out.


----------



## flatcurve

CraigK said:


> Decided to replace the Seagate ST31000322CS 1TB drive in one of our TiVo HDs with a quieter WD10EVDS.
> 
> I ran diagnostics on the new WD drive overnight along with moving the shows we needed to save temporarily to our other TiVo HD that already has a WD10EVDS.
> 
> I ran the Preserve Settings Only version of WinMFS this morning. First doing a truncated backup of the Seagate drive then restoring to the WD10EVDS with supersize.
> 
> When I booted the TiVo it went from Powering Up to Almost There to Powering Up to a GSOD telling me it could take 3 hours to attempt a fix.
> 
> Since this is my wife's TiVo and I'm on a deadline  I decided to try again. Same result even making a new copy of the Seagate drive.
> 
> On a whim I decided to try using an image from the original 160G TiVo drive and this time everything went well.
> 
> Since the image is about a month old the TiVo has to get all the guide data and I have to make a few changes to the Season Pass list. Luckily I wrote everything down before starting the upgrade.
> 
> Not sure why it wouldn't work from the Seagate image. It got me wondering if it had something to do with them both being 1TB drives. It still asked me if I wanted to expand the drive and let me Supersize it.
> 
> Maybe if I'd let the TiVo do the repair everything would have worked out.


Try doing it without supersizing the drive, or try doing an mfscopy instead of a truncated backup.


----------



## flatcurve

Fortynine said:


> Thanks for the link. I ran the test and there were no problems found on the original Tivo drive. I think I'll try a re-install and see if that changes anything.


If you used mfscopy in winmfs to copy an unexpanded & unmarried 250GB original S3 drive to a 1TB drive, then it should have worked. Not sure what happened here. Maybe try running the diagnostics on the 1TB drive. It's unlikely, but not impossible that you got a bad drive. We see less than 1% of our drives bad out of the box, but that's still more than 0%.


----------



## dlfl

*CraigK*,

Turn off virus protection while running WinMFS.


----------



## Fortynine

I also ran the diagnostics on the new 1TB WD10EVDS and it failed. I guess I'll have to return it for an exchange and then start all over.


----------



## flatcurve

Fortynine said:


> I also ran the diagnostics on the new 1TB WD10EVDS and it failed. I guess I'll have to return it for an exchange and then start all over.


That's no fun 

But at least you know what the problem was now.


----------



## keenanSR

Out of curiosity, what did the test say was wrong with it?


----------



## CraigK

flatcurve said:


> Try doing it without supersizing the drive, or try doing an mfscopy instead of a truncated backup.


Thanks. That was a good idea, but I already went down the earlier image backup path and that worked out fine. Just had to wait awhile for the guide data to load and index.

It would have been interesting to try that.



dlfl said:


> *CraigK*,
> 
> Turn off virus protection while running WinMFS.


I had virus protection turned off every time I prepared a drive. It was on my checklist. 

The EVDS is inaudible even when the TV is off. :up:

It's much, much better than the Seagate drive which will be used as a computer backup drive.


----------



## GrayeDog

Hey guys, sorry if this is a repost but this thread is 136 pages long!

I've decided to do what everyone told me to do, and upgrade my internal drive. (EDIT: I have a TiVo HD). I'm planning on keeping both my settings and my recordings. I've got three questions about this, because I'm a little worried I'm going to screw it up.

a) Of the listed recommended 1TB drives, is there any reason to pick the WD10EVDS or the Hitachi Deskstar HDT721010SLA360 over one another? Or is it just whichever one I can get cheaper, because they're both good (or is there another listed drive that's better?)

b) Can I still do a full upgrade (including recordings) if both of my drives (current and future) are plugged in with a SATA->USB adapter? What if only one is plugged in? And along the same lines...do most desktop computers have a spare SATA port? Or more than one? Obviously it varies by computer, so what is it I'm looking for if I pop open my computer? I'd like to avoid having to get two SATA->USB adapters if possible.

c) Is there anything I need hard drive space for during the upgrade (outside of the current TiVo drive and the drive I'm putting in there) besides the backup of my existing TiVo that I make when I do File->Backup in WinMFS? How much free space outside of the two drives do I need to do the upgrade, and to store the backup?

Thanks everyone, I'm sure this is all second nature to you guys now, but I want to make sure I know exactly what I'm doing before I crack this thing open, and in particular, before I shell out $ for more drives.

Adam


----------



## Fortynine

keenanSR said:


> Out of curiosity, what did the test say was wrong with it?


Basically I could not access the drive with either the WD diagnostic program or when running WinMFS. The error I kept getting with the diagnostic was a cable error. However, I tried more than one dock and got the same error message each time. When I put another drive in these docks they worked every time.


----------



## CraigK

GrayeDog said:


> a) Of the listed recommended 1TB drives, is there any reason to pick the WD10EVDS or the Hitachi Deskstar HDT721010SLA360 over one another? Or is it just whichever one I can get cheaper, because they're both good (or is there another listed drive that's better?)


I have no experience with the Hitachi drives, but the WD10EVDS drives work fine for me and are quiet. I tried a Seagate ST31000322CS and although it worked it was too noisy so I replaced it with a WD10EVDS.



GrayeDog said:


> b) Can I still do a full upgrade (including recordings) if both of my drives (current and future) are plugged in with a SATA->USB adapter? What if only one is plugged in? And along the same lines...do most desktop computers have a spare SATA port? Or more than one? Obviously it varies by computer, so what is it I'm looking for if I pop open my computer? I'd like to avoid having to get two SATA->USB adapters if possible.


I've only done the Preserve Settings Only upgrade (with a SATA>USB adapter), but as I understand it you can do a full upgrade but have to have two adapters (or a dock that holds two drives) and both drives are hooked up at the same time. Because you are using a SATA>USB adapter it will take longer to copy the data than if you had the drives hooked up directly with SATA cables.


----------



## keenanSR

Fortynine said:


> Basically I could not access the drive with either the WD diagnostic program or when running WinMFS. The error I kept getting with the diagnostic was a cable error. However, I tried more than one dock and got the same error message each time. When I put another drive in these docks they worked every time.


It does sound like the drive is bad, but when you say "dock" what do you mean? Are you using an external HDD enclosure to perform the procedure? Have you tried connecting the drive directly to the SATA port on the motherboard?


----------



## opus123

My EVVS has been running for a month, and am now seeing intermittent audio stuttering/pixelation as I watch live TV. Could this be an effect of the virus protection software launching during my back-up? it is a bad drive that I should replace? or should I simply try a fresh back-up to the same HD?
- If it's a new HD, which is the best candidate for no issues, 10evds?

appreciate anyone's insight



opus123 said:


> just finished forcing tivo service connection, then a soft-reboot.
> all is well, and functioning properly. thanks!
> 
> also, my sincere thanks to the OP for providing such great direction on how to self-upgrade. a HUGE help.
> 
> hoping this incarnation of tivo will serve me well for years to come


----------



## dlfl

opus123 said:


> My EVVS has been running for a month, and am now seeing intermittent audio stuttering/pixelation as I watch live TV. Could this be an effect of the virus protection software launching during my back-up? it is a bad drive that I should replace? or should I simply try a fresh back-up to the same HD?
> - If it's a new HD, which is the best candidate for no issues, 10evds?
> 
> appreciate anyone's insight


Do the problems get worse if you tune to 2 HD channels and play back an HD recording? That creates the highest read/write workload which usually gives the most glitches if it is the HDD.

Try kick start 54 next, although there are HDD problems it won't find.

Next sub in the old HDD -- but only if it was running good when you took it out.

After doing the above you should have a pretty good idea whether it's the new HDD.

Ultimately, run the WD extended diagnostic test on the new drive -- but you will lose everything on it and have to redo WinMFS etc.


----------



## lew

dlfl said:


> Ultimately, run the WD extended diagnostic test on the new drive -- but you will lose everything on it and have to redo WinMFS etc.


WD extended diagnosics is not a destructive test. You won't lose everything. There may an issue if it needs to map out bad sectors, is unable to move the daa and that data is important.


----------



## Fortynine

"It does sound like the drive is bad, but when you say "dock" what do you mean? Are you using an external HDD enclosure to perform the procedure? Have you tried connecting the drive directly to the SATA port on the motherboard?"

I used Sata - USB connectors. One was a Sata-USB hard drive doc where you simply insert the hard drive from the top of the unit. The other was a Sata/IDE USB adapter cable.


----------



## flatcurve

Fortynine said:


> I used Sata - USB connectors. One was a Sata-USB hard drive doc where you simply insert the hard drive from the top of the unit. The other was a Sata/IDE USB adapter cable.


Hmm, I can't speak for winmfs, but those may not be compatible with the WD Diags. When I'm using the manufacturer's diagnostic tools, I usually opt for the DOS version loaded onto a bootable CD. It boots and runs faster, IME. For testing SATA drives, I use a SATA->IDE adapter and it works fine. If you've got SATA ports on your motherboard, those should work too. I've found that sata PCI cards and USB adapters never work with the DOS diagnostics though.


----------



## dlfl

If your pc is windows you want to use the windows version of WD diagnostics. I ran the extended test using a USB-IDE-SATA adapter. (And did the WinMFS truncated backup and restore with it too.)


----------



## flatcurve

dlfl said:


> If your pc is windows you want to use the windows version of WD diagnostics. I ran the extended test using a USB-IDE-SATA adapter. (And did the WinMFS truncated backup and restore with it too.)


the DOS version will work on any x86 based PC. As I said, in my experience it is faster than the windows utils. YMMV


----------



## dlfl

flatcurve said:


> the DOS version will work on any x86 based PC. As I said, in my experience it is faster than the windows utils. YMMV


I was just remembering *MPSAN*'s statements in this post. Maybe this is incorrect but if true, it sounds like it might work where the DOS version might not see the drive if connected via a USB adapter. Also it wouldn't require booting from a CD. How much faster is the DOS version?


----------



## flatcurve

dlfl said:


> I was just remembering *MPSAN*'s statements in this post. Maybe this is incorrect but if true, it sounds like it might work where the DOS version might not see the drive if connected via a USB adapter. Also it wouldn't require booting from a CD. How much faster is the DOS version?


Yes, it is correct, but I did point that out. However IME the DOS utils will work with onboard SATA ports, but not PCI cards. It probably varies from motherboard to motherboard. Speedwise, I can't really put a hard number on it. I just know that it boots faster (~30 seconds) and scans faster than running the windows diag utils on the same computer.


----------



## lew

flatcurve said:


> Yes, it is correct, but I did point that out. However IME the DOS utils will work with onboard SATA ports, but not PCI cards. It probably varies from motherboard to motherboard. Speedwise, I can't really put a hard number on it. I just know that it boots faster (~30 seconds) and scans faster than running the windows diag utils on the same computer.


The DOS version makes sense if the user has a "test" computer that can be easily opened, has an available SATA port and the user has a long SATA cable and power cable. Makes a lot of sense if you, or your company, will be testing a lot of drives.

The Windows version lets us use a USB-SATA adapter. Makes a lot of sense for those of us that need to test a drive every 3 or 4 years. Who are going to let an extended test run overnight.


----------



## GrayeDog

Question: if I have only one SATA port, and one USB->SATA adapter, and I'm doing a full upgrde including recordings, which drive am I better off plugging in directly into a SATA port, and which drive am I better off plugging in the USB->SATA adapter (current vs. future) ? Or does it not make any difference either way? I'm sure it'll WORK either way, but if one way would make it reasonably faster, that'd be good to know.


----------



## dlfl

flatcurve said:


> Yes, it is correct, but I did point that out. However IME the DOS utils will work with onboard SATA ports, but not PCI cards. It probably varies from motherboard to motherboard. Speedwise, I can't really put a hard number on it. I just know that it boots faster (~30 seconds) and scans faster than running the windows diag utils on the same computer.


I'm confused about comparing boot times. There is no boot time when using the Windows version -- it's just a windows program.


----------



## flatcurve

dlfl said:


> I'm confused about comparing boot times. There is no boot time when using the Windows version -- it's just a windows program.


If you're hot swapping drives, then boot time doesn't matter.


----------



## drey

flatcurve said:


> If you're hot swapping drives, then boot time doesn't matter.


You can't hot swap SATA drives if they're set to IDE mode in BIOS. If you set drives to anything non-IDE, they won't be recognized by DOS-based tools.


----------



## cuppingmaster

I previously upgraded my own TiVo HD with a July vintage of the WD _EVVS ("Caviar Green") and it's going well. No flaws.

I tried a friend's with the same drive, but this time I didn't have access to a PC, only a Mac with VirtualBox and XP. I can confirm that VirtualBox does work, but you have to set up a USB device filter for each drive in the VM settings. After I did that, restarted the VM with the external drives off, then turned them on once I was booted into the VM, I was finally able to see the drives in WinMFS.

It's likely a lot slower, however. I started it around 1AM and it finished around 4PM. But it works!


----------



## wgw

GrayeDog said:


> Question: if I have only one SATA port, and one USB->SATA adapter, and I'm doing a full upgrde including recordings, which drive am I better off plugging in directly into a SATA port, and which drive am I better off plugging in the USB->SATA adapter (current vs. future) ? Or does it not make any difference either way? I'm sure it'll WORK either way, but if one way would make it reasonably faster, that'd be good to know.


I think I would connect the source drive to the USB and the destination to the SATA.


----------



## wgw

opus123 said:


> My EVVS has been running for a month, and am now seeing intermittent audio stuttering/pixelation as I watch live TV. Could this be an effect of the virus protection software launching during my back-up? it is a bad drive that I should replace? or should I simply try a fresh back-up to the same HD?
> - If it's a new HD, which is the best candidate for no issues, 10evds?
> 
> appreciate anyone's insight


I get this on both my S3's regularly. The drives are fine. To correct the problem, I just do a hard boot (pull the plug). If I remember to hard boot once every week or two I never have a problem. When I let it go too long it starts pixelating. Sometimes it takes 2 or 3 hard boots before the pixelation stops.


----------



## moscovitzd

Just so folks are aware I'm seeing the soft reboot problem using WD15EVDS drives in Tivo HDs (TCD652160). I have two new Tivo HD units and purchased two WD15EVDS drives to install in them internally. I removed the internal 160GB drives, used WinMFS to do a MFSCopy, limited the partition to 1 TB, reinstalled the WD15EVDS internally. They boot up but when I try to restart from the Tivo menu it gets stuck on the Welcome Powering Up screen. I'm open to any suggestions you all might recommend. I was trying to get the elusive 1.26 TB of space.

From the drives:
S/N:WCAVU0299978 and WCAVU0301427
MDL: WD15EVDS-63V9B0
DATE: 04 OCT 2009
DCM: HHNCHT2CHB and HHNCNT2CAB
WWN: 50014EE258CB0B29 and 50014EE2AE20A84E
Product of Thailand


----------



## MPSAN

flatcurve said:


> Yes, it is correct, but I did point that out. However IME the DOS utils will work with onboard SATA ports, but not PCI cards. It probably varies from motherboard to motherboard. Speedwise, I can't really put a hard number on it. I just know that it boots faster (~30 seconds) and scans faster than running the windows diag utils on the same computer.


The DOS version can work, but if the MoBo SATA controller (ICH10R or older) is being used, the DOS may not even see the drive. Also, if a USB adapter is being used, again, DOS may not know what USB is. I know my MoBo with ICH10R needed the WIN version and it ran fast, too.

Dave


----------



## opus123

thanks for everyone's input. considering i really don't want to be without my tivo for any length of time, i may order an EVDS so i have something to go with in case any troubleshooting doesn't succeed.

I see one post above mention problems with EVDS... i'd go with the 1TB, as i don't want to push my luck. are they still safe, or have others started reporting problems?


----------



## dlfl

opus123 said:


> thanks for everyone's input. considering i really don't want to be without my tivo for any length of time, i may order an EVDS so i have something to go with in case any troubleshooting doesn't succeed.
> 
> I see one post above mention problems with EVDS... i'd go with the 1TB, as i don't want to push my luck. are they still safe, or have others started reporting problems?


Check the chart in the first post and do a search in this thread for "evds".


----------



## CraigK

opus123 said:


> I see one post above mention problems with EVDS... i'd go with the 1TB, as i don't want to push my luck. are they still safe, or have others started reporting problems?


I've recently used WD10EVDS drives in two TiVo HDs after the first attempt using one of the new EVVS drives failed.

Both of the WD10EVDS drives had a date of 01 AUG 2009 and were purchased from Amazon about a month apart (one in October and one a couple of weeks ago).

No problems so far.


----------



## bkdtv

moscovitzd said:


> Just so folks are aware I'm seeing the soft reboot problem using WD15EVDS drives in Tivo HDs (TCD652160). I have two new Tivo HD units and purchased two WD15EVDS drives to install in them internally. I removed the internal 160GB drives, used WinMFS to do a MFSCopy, limited the partition to 1 TB, reinstalled the WD15EVDS internally. They boot up but when I try to restart from the Tivo menu it gets stuck on the Welcome Powering Up screen. I'm open to any suggestions you all might recommend. I was trying to get the elusive 1.26 TB of space.
> 
> From the drives:
> S/N:WCAVU0299978 and WCAVU0301427
> MDL: WD15EVDS-63V9B0
> DATE: 04 OCT 2009


Unfortunately, this appears to be an issue with the latest versions of the WD15EVDS (doesn't affect WD10EVDS). That's why I removed that drive from the first post last month.

You must either live with the "soft reboot" problem or switch to the [noisier] Seagate ST31500541AS or ST315005N4A1AS. I have no experience with this drive so I can't speak to its long-term reliability.


----------



## richsadams

wgw said:


> I get this on both my S3's regularly. The drives are fine. To correct the problem, I just do a hard boot (pull the plug). If I remember to hard boot once every week or two I never have a problem. When I let it go too long it starts pixelating. Sometimes it takes 2 or 3 hard boots before the pixelation stops.


I'm glad you've been able to get things back on track using a hard reboot. But what you're experiencing is not normal. Pixelization and audio issues aren't normal and there's no reason anyone should have to repeatedly do a hard reboot to keep TiVo working properly.

The OP's problems could very well be a hard drive issue or it may be something else. Whatever the case it should be diagnosed.


----------



## lew

bkdtv said:


> Unfortunately, this appears to be an issue with the latest versions of the WD15EVDS (doesn't affect WD10EVDS). That's why I removed that drive from the first post last month.
> 
> You must either live with the "soft reboot" problem or switch to the [noisier] Seagate ST31500541AS or ST315005N4A1AS. I have no experience with this drive so I can't speak to its long-term reliability.


It's starting to sound like whatever firmware changes WD is rolling out isn't compatable with tivo. I'd think it's only a matter of time before the issue is either corrected (all WD drives) or few (if any) current WD drives will work with tivo.

I don't think the problem will be solved until it's time for WD to submit drives with the new firmware to tivo for testing. Even then WD might just decide to use the older firmware with drives shipped directly to tivo.


----------



## drey

lew said:


> It's starting to sound like whatever firmware changes WD is rolling out isn't compatable with tivo. I'd think it's only a matter of time before the issue is either corrected (all WD drives) or few (if any) current WD drives will work with tivo.
> 
> I don't think the problem will be solved until it's time for WD to submit drives with the new firmware to tivo for testing. Even then WD might just decide to use the older firmware with drives shipped directly to tivo.


The problem is that TiVo uses cheaper WD10EVVS drives in XL units with less cache, so not sure if we'll ever see TiVo testing WDxxEVDS drives.

The issue that we're seeing with firmware on certain drives, especially WD Green drives, is that these drives park heads to save the energy using proprietary technology called IntelliPark. Different firmware versions have different ms delay before the head is returned to reading position. So when TiVo is rebooted and reading head is not in place, TiVo hangs.

This problem doesn't happen on PCs and TiVo "cold boot" because it takes 3-5 seconds for BIOS to read other data about available devices. This delay allows WD Green drives plenty of time to put the head in place. TiVo, on the other hand, during soft reboot expects drive to be readily available right away. That is also the reason why all non-green drives which do not park their heads work fine.

I believe the better solution for TiVo would be to modify their bootup sequence and wait at least 2 secs during soft reboot before expecting to access the drive. But I wouldn't hold my breath for TiVo to modify their software so we can use "unapproved" drives.


----------



## lew

Go up a few pages. The WD10EVVS drives were the first (current) drives to have issues with the TivoHD. Over the last couple of weeks the issue spread to other models.

Your explanation makes the most sense. It looks like this is becoming a general issue with WD green drives.

I don't know if tivo will be changing their software or if WD will make sure drives shipped to tivo has different firmware from drives sold to the general public.



drey said:


> The problem is that TiVo uses cheaper WD10EVVS drives in XL units with less cache, so not sure if we'll ever see TiVo testing WDxxEVDS drives.
> 
> ....This problem doesn't happen on regular PCs because it takes 3-5 seconds for BIOS to read other devices and this allows WD Green drives plenty of time to put the head in place. TiVo, on the other hand, expects drive to be readily available right away. That is also the reason why all non-green drives work fine.
> 
> I believe the better solution for TiVo would be to modify their bootup sequence and wait at least 2 secs before expecting to access the drive. But I wouldn't hold my breath for TiVo to modify their software so we can use "unapproved" drives.


----------



## tom-el

MPSAN said:


> The DOS version can work, but if the MoBo SATA controller (ICH10R or older) is being used, the DOS may not even see the drive. Also, if a USB adapter is being used, again, DOS may not know what USB is. I know my MoBo with ICH10R needed the WIN version and it ran fast, too.
> 
> Dave


I use a Biostar mbd with 2 onboard ide's and 2 onboard sata's for this kind of stuff. Last year when I installed my first 1tb drive in a HD, it worked without a hitch. Last week I tried and WD diags could not see my sata drives (WinMFS sees them, but cannot access them). Turns out I reloaded XP a few months ago and the board needs sata drivers to be loaded to see the ports, which I forgot. If you create a boot disk using DOS you may need to load drivers for your main board or any pci/usb adapter (may not run under DOS), and DOS predates USB, so....


----------



## richsadams

drey said:


> TThe issue that we're seeing with firmware on certain drives, especially WD Green drives, is that these drives park heads to save the energy using proprietary technology called IntelliPark. Different firmware versions have different ms delay before the head is returned to reading position. So when TiVo is rebooted and reading head is not in place, TiVo hangs.
> 
> This problem doesn't happen on PCs and TiVo "cold boot" because it takes 3-5 seconds for BIOS to read other data about available devices. This delay allows WD Green drives plenty of time to put the head in place. TiVo, on the other hand, during soft reboot expects drive to be readily available right away. That is also the reason why all non-green drives which do not park their heads work fine.


The "green technology is the problem" theory has been proposed from a number of folks for several years now. However WD GP drives did not exhibit the soft boot issue originally yet they've always touted the "IntelliPark" technology. In the beginning all of their GP drives worked with all TiVo models (I still have one of the original drives which worked in our Series3 and TiVo HD (although it's working as a backup drive now and no longer in one of our TiVo's). It was only after various changes were made to the drive lines (and then in some but not in others) that issues have arisen. Some are no longer working at all and others are exhibiting the soft reboot issue...all models which worked w/o any problems initially.

So good ideas and input but I'm still more inclined to believe it has something to do with firmware changes and not the "green" technologies, although they aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.


----------



## drhankz

richsadams said:


> So good ideas and input but I'm still more inclined to believe it has something to do with firmware changes and not the "green" technologies, although they aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.


I would suggest it is the Firmware that makes them green and
most likely the Green Technology and FW are doing everything
to SAVE POWER and shutting down the drives or maybe even
slowing them down to save power and heat. Just my GUESS 

All of which TiVo may not like so it reboots.


----------



## richsadams

drhankz said:


> I would suggest it is the Firmware that makes them green and
> most likely the Green Technology and FW are doing everything
> to SAVE POWER and shutting down the drives or maybe even
> slowing them down to save power and heat. Just my GUESS
> 
> All of which TiVo may not like so it reboots.


The question isn't about TiVo rebooting on its own. (If TiVo is spontaneously rebooting there's a problem.)

"Green power" hard drives (WD, Seagate, etc.) are designed to spin down and/or park their heads when there is no activity for a specific period of time. Since TiVo hard drives are active 24/7 these drives will never make use of the "energy saver" feature, never spin down and consequently never reboot (at least because of any energy saving technology).

The issue is about WD GP drives not being able to boot TiVo during a "soft reboot". A "hard reboot" means disconnecting power from TiVo (pulling the plug and plugging it back in). "Soft reboots" can occur when the user restarts the DVR via the menu or on other occasions such as a software update from TiVo. In those instances TiVo hangs at the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen. As mentioned, various WD GP hard drives have been fully functional with most or all TiVo models until recently when something changed and several WD drives either do not boot at all or suffer from the soft reboot issue.

Both of our TiVo's have WD GP drives and neither suffer from the soft reboot issue (nor have they ever spontaneously rebooted except during a couple of normal TiVo upgrades).


----------



## MPSAN

tom-el said:


> I use a Biostar mbd with 2 onboard ide's and 2 onboard sata's for this kind of stuff. Last year when I installed my first 1tb drive in a HD, it worked without a hitch. Last week I tried and WD diags could not see my sata drives (WinMFS sees them, but cannot access them). Turns out I reloaded XP a few months ago and the board needs sata drivers to be loaded to see the ports, which I forgot. If you create a boot disk using DOS you may need to load drivers for your main board or any pci/usb adapter (may not run under DOS), and DOS predates USB, so....


Yes, that is what I said when I mentioned the ICH10R. I would be surprised if DOS even knew what that was.


----------



## drhankz

richsadams said:


> "Green power" hard drives (WD, Seagate, etc.) are designed to spin down and/or park their heads when there is no activity for a specific period of time. Since TiVo hard drives are active 24/7 these drives will never make use of the "energy saver" feature, never spin down and consequently never reboot (at least because of any energy saving technology).


All perfectly good logic, but something in the NEW Drive FW 
obviously is not compatible with TiVo. We must be able to 
agree on that much


----------



## MPSAN

drhankz said:


> All perfectly good logic, but something in the NEW Drive FW
> obviously is not compatible with TiVo. We must be able to
> agree on that much


Maybe not! Of course, FW is the first thing to suspect, but it can be, and often is, the drive electronics. An EC can be cut in, and all seems to work. It can also be a manufacturing line that has done something different.

With that said, it is VERY important that all persons who have this soft reboot issue call WD at 1-800-275-4932 and give them your S/N and Model number. Then have this escalated up the chain.

If not, we are just telling ourselves the same story here and trying to guess what WD did.

P.S. WD has looked at this thread.


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> P.S. WD has looked at this thread.


Okay...no fair! Leaving a tidbit like that hanging out there is like throwing red meat into the lion's den and telling him he can only admire it.


----------



## richsadams

drhankz said:


> All perfectly good logic, but something in the NEW Drive FW
> obviously is not compatible with TiVo. We must be able to
> agree on that much


Not disagreeing here...just clarifying a little. As MPSAN noted above and in various other posts...there are a lot of possibilities. We can rule a few out but I'll leave the rest to the experts.

For some of us interested in this little slice of TiVodom it's quite interesting whereas for most folks and in the grand scheme of things it's pretty close to and about as important as making a judgment about how blue the sky is today (or gray if you live in this neck of the woods) and why.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Not disagreeing here...just clarifying a little. As MPSAN noted above and in various other posts...there are a lot of possibilities. We can rule a few out but I'll leave the rest to the experts.
> 
> For some of us interested in this little slice of TiVodom it's quite interesting whereas for most folks and in the grand scheme of things it's pretty close to and about as important as making a judgment about how blue the sky is today (or gray if you live in this neck of the woods) and why.


WARNING, No user serviceable data in this posting.

This is why WD MUST build a DB based on Drive models, Mfg. Dates, and place of build. It can be as simple as a manufacturing line, in a single Country, forgetting to add a jumper or impliment a new EC. That can ONLY be resolved by getting data points. The more the better!

P.S. Maybe WD will see this reply as well!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> P.S. Maybe WD will see this reply as well!


[shaking head] Cruel...just cruel.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> [shaking head] Cruel...just cruel.


OH...and how cruel was it when I wanted to upgrade my TiVo to 1TB and I couldn't see?


----------



## wgw

richsadams said:


> I'm glad you've been able to get things back on track using a hard reboot. But what you're experiencing is not normal. Pixelization and audio issues aren't normal and there's no reason anyone should have to repeatedly do a hard reboot to keep TiVo working properly.
> 
> The OP's problems could very well be a hard drive issue or it may be something else. Whatever the case it should be diagnosed.


Just because you are not experiencing the same problem does not mean it is not normal. Since I have two tivos that behave exactly the same, I consider it normal for whatever bug in the tivo software thats causing it. Do you have the same cable service that I do? Does your cable service configure their cards the same as mine does. Do you even have cable cards? Perhaps opus123 and I have the same cable service. opus123 should certainly run a full WD diagnostic on the drive to be sure the drive is not defective. But if the diagnostic passes, it may be a common glitch caused by our configuration and a bug in the tivo software.


----------



## richsadams

wgw said:


> Just because you are not experiencing the same problem does not mean it is not normal. Since I have two tivos that behave exactly the same, I consider it normal for whatever bug in the tivo software thats causing it. Do you have the same cable service that I do? Does your cable service configure their cards the same as mine does. Do you even have cable cards? Perhaps opus123 and I have the same cable service. opus123 should certainly run a full WD diagnostic on the drive to be sure the drive is not defective. But if the diagnostic passes, it may be a common glitch caused by our configuration and a bug in the tivo software.


Well, I'm really sorry to hear that you're convinced that having to constantly reboot TiVo to keep things running is "normal". Seriously, it's not. There is a problem. It might be a hard drive issue, it could be a signal problem, internal, external, hardware, software, it's hard to know without further analysis.

I see by some of your other posts that you just upgraded one of your TiVo's. I noted that it didn't go as planned at first (don't you just hate that?) but that you were able to get it straightened out with some help. Congrats!

With regard to the OP figuring out what's wrong a good place to start is to give some of TiVo's built-in diagnostics called Kickstarts a try to see if the problem can be resolved. But if that doesn't work, I agree, additional detective work is certainly called for. Here's the Kickstart link:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5643823#post5643823

If there's anything else we can do to help, don't hesitate to ask. After 8 plus years of modding TiVo's I may have some ideas, but I certainly don't have all of the answers. Luckily there are a lot of very helpful folks here. Be sure to post as much info as you can and hopefully things can get ironed out.

Oh, yes, I in fact do have cable cards (see my signature).


----------



## MPSAN

Hello ALL;

Just a quick question to all of you with WD drives that fail a soft boot. Is AAM changed to 128? I wonder if the setting to make the drive quiet can change the seek profile enough to cause the issue? Perhaps the drive can be set back to the default it came with.


----------



## jlib

I can verify that the AAM setting did not have an effect on my WD soft-reboot problem. 

Though there may be some timing issues involved it is also more complicated than the drive simply needing more time to boot up as poster drey hypothesized. On both of the soft-reboot cases I have seen the drive heads accessed the spun-up drive several times and then eventually things just stopped and the bootup died.


----------



## wgw

richsadams said:


> Well, I'm really sorry to hear that you're convinced that having to constantly reboot TiVo to keep things running is "normal". Seriously, it's not. There is a problem. It might be a hard drive issue, it could be a signal problem, internal, external, hardware, software, it's hard to know without further analysis.
> 
> I see by some of your other posts that you just upgraded one of your TiVo's. I noted that it didn't go as planned at first (don't you just hate that?) but that you were able to get it straightened out with some help. Congrats!
> 
> With regard to the OP figuring out what's wrong a good place to start is to give some of TiVo's built-in diagnostics called Kickstarts a try to see if the problem can be resolved. But if that doesn't work, I agree, additional detective work is certainly called for. Here's the Kickstart link:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5643823#post5643823
> 
> If there's anything else we can do to help, don't hesitate to ask. After 8 plus years of modding TiVo's I may have some ideas, but I certainly don't have all of the answers. Luckily there are a lot of very helpful folks here. Be sure to post as much info as you can and hopefully things can get ironed out.
> 
> Oh, yes, I in fact do have cable cards (see my signature).


lol, I did not need any help. Woop-dee-doo, someone told me about supersize, since I did not know about it because it has been 2 years since I installed my 1TB drive. Who gives a **** about a couple megs. Since you are such an expert on pixelation, I think your expertise would be better applied by solving everyones problems in the pixelation thread. And for that matter, why haven't you been able to solve my pixelation problems. If you had ever really read any of my posts, you would realize that I regularly do full diagnostics on my drives to ensure that they not are defective. And since you asked, please contact TiVo and force them to resolve all pixelation issues not related to defective hard drives. Thank you and let me know when you have resolved the problem.


----------



## richsadams

wgw said:


> lol, I did not need any help. Woop-dee-doo, someone told me about supersize, since I did not know about it because it has been 2 years since I installed my 1TB drive. Who gives a **** about a couple megs. Since you are such an expert on pixelation, I think your expertise would be better applied by solving everyones problems in the pixelation thread. And for that matter, why haven't you been able to solve my pixelation problems. If you had ever really read any of my posts, you would realize that I regularly do full diagnostics on my drives to ensure that they not are defective. And since you asked, please contact TiVo and force them to resolve all pixelation issues not related to defective hard drives. Thank you and let me know when you have resolved the problem.


Wow! Why so angry? I never said I was an expert and only offered to lend a hand. Take it or leave it but newbies as well as folks that have been here for a few years usually express their appreciation or at least are civil in their replies.

All the best.


----------



## opus123

Hi Rich, this is really an incredible amount of helpful info.. THANKS!

Do you recommend that I run all of the kickstart tests (for my audio stuttering & video pixelation), or just one specifically?

FYI.. this morning when i went to record a show in progress.. the tivo rebooted. Thought i'd mention in case it helps diagnosis.



richsadams said:


> Well, I'm really sorry to hear that you're convinced that having to constantly reboot TiVo to keep things running is "normal". Seriously, it's not. There is a problem. It might be a hard drive issue, it could be a signal problem, internal, external, hardware, software, it's hard to know without further analysis.
> 
> I see by some of your other posts that you just upgraded one of your TiVo's. I noted that it didn't go as planned at first (don't you just hate that?) but that you were able to get it straightened out with some help. Congrats!
> 
> With regard to the OP figuring out what's wrong a good place to start is to give some of TiVo's built-in diagnostics called Kickstarts a try to see if the problem can be resolved. But if that doesn't work, I agree, additional detective work is certainly called for. Here's the Kickstart link:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5643823#post5643823
> 
> If there's anything else we can do to help, don't hesitate to ask. After 8 plus years of modding TiVo's I may have some ideas, but I certainly don't have all of the answers. Luckily there are a lot of very helpful folks here. Be sure to post as much info as you can and hopefully things can get ironed out.
> 
> Oh, yes, I in fact do have cable cards (see my signature).


----------



## bareyb

wgw said:


> lol, I did not need any help. Woop-dee-doo, someone told me about supersize, since I did not know about it because it has been 2 years since I installed my 1TB drive. Who gives a **** about a couple megs. Since you are such an expert on pixelation, I think your expertise would be better applied by solving everyones problems in the pixelation thread. And for that matter, why haven't you been able to solve my pixelation problems. If you had ever really read any of my posts, you would realize that I regularly do full diagnostics on my drives to ensure that they not are defective. And since you asked, please contact TiVo and force them to resolve all pixelation issues not related to defective hard drives. Thank you and let me know when you have resolved the problem.


Wow. There's some gratitude for ya, huh Rich?


----------



## richsadams

opus123 said:


> Hi Rich, this is really an incredible amount of helpful info.. THANKS!
> 
> Do you recommend that I run all of the kickstart tests (for my audio stuttering & video pixelation), or just one specifically?
> 
> FYI.. this morning when i went to record a show in progress.. the tivo rebooted. Thought i'd mention in case it helps diagnosis.


I think I'd start with KS54...which is a simple MFS diagnostic that may return an error code if it finds a hard drive issue. I say "may" because it's not infallible and has been known to return false negatives (in other words saying that there were no problems when it turned out there actually were), but it's a good start. As noted in the Kickstart post it's best to choose a specific drive (since you don't have an expansion drive only one will show) rather than the "Run S.M.A.R.T. Test" option as that's been known to lock up some TiVo's (although they can recover with a hard reboot).

KS57 and KS58 are variations of MFS assert and can sometimes correct things by isolating bad sectors and fixing corrupted data. It's possible either could help in your situation but the symptoms you've outlined sound more like something else is occurring.

I'd also consider just slipping the original hard drive back in to see if the symptoms continue. If they do you can quickly rule out a hard drive issue.

Hope that helps.

BTW, thanks for the vote of confidence. Like most forums, you get what you pay for here.  So many people have helped me along the way I enjoy giving back whenever I can. Best of luck and keep us posted. :up:


----------



## richsadams

bareyb said:


> Wow. There's some gratitude for ya, huh Rich?


Live and let live I guess.  Hope all is well!


----------



## ThAbtO

richsadams said:


> Live and let live I guess.  Hope all is well!


Live Long and Phosphor!


----------



## richsadams

ThAbtO said:


> Live Long and Phosphor!


Ha! Good one...an ST/CRT reference in a single package!


----------



## bareyb

richsadams said:


> Live and let live I guess.  Hope all is well!


Things are good. Both S3's are still humming along. Haven't done much with the network or the TiVos lately, but I still monitor these threads. Gotta keep up on the latest.


----------



## richsadams

bareyb said:


> Things are good. Both S3's are still humming along. Haven't done much with the network or the TiVos lately, but I still monitor these threads. Gotta keep up on the latest.


Good to hear. :up: So you see that our drive choices are suddenly being narrowed? There are a few folks here (that shall remain unnamed...but they know who they are) that seem to know a few secrets. Hopefully all will be revealed one day. Take care and enjoy!


----------



## willv28

Well, just finished upgrading my TiVo HD with the 1TB WD10EVDS. Everything went according to plan. Haven't had any problems. If I see some of the other problems people have, I'll let you all know.


----------



## richsadams

willv28 said:


> Well, just finished upgrading my TiVo HD with the 1TB WD10EVDS. Everything went according to plan. Haven't had any problems. If I see some of the other problems people have, I'll let you all know.


Congratulations and welcome to the club! Curious, did you try a soft reboot (menu restart)? I'm sure it's fine, but just as a reference point. Also by chance did you note the manufacture date? TIA...and enjoy!


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## jonra

In settings, network connect to tivo. I just downloaded the "NEW: Search the Netflix Instant Watch catalog using TiVo Search on your TiVo HD DVR." I installed a 1TB WD10EVDS last weekend. I just soft-booted in re-start tivo, 3 thumbs down... 

My Tivo HD with the WD10EVDS booted up fine.


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## richsadams

jonra said:


> My Tivo HD with the WD10EVDS booted up fine.


Excellent. Good to know that so far the WD changes haven't spread to the EVDS line. Thanks for that. :up:


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## eaayoung

It's day 7 and my S3 and Tuning Adapter (TA) are working great together!

After dumping the MyDVR expander drive, and eventually the internal drive of the S3, all my TA problems seem to be solved..., no more weekly reboots of the TA, daily lockups, picture breakup problems... And, when I reboot the system, the TA automatically resets. Never did that before. I always had to unplug the TA to reset it after a reboot of the system.

Life is good!


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## richsadams

eaayoung said:


> It's day 7 and my S3 and Tuning Adapter (TA) are working great together!


Sah-weet! (Hope you didn't jinx it though!  ) I have no experience with TA's. It's a bit OT, but was that a recent addition in your area? If you lived with and without it are there any major downsides (besides the apparent issues with the Expander)? TIA.


----------



## MPSAN

jonra said:


> In settings, network connect to tivo. I just downloaded the "NEW: Search the Netflix Instant Watch catalog using TiVo Search on your TiVo HD DVR." I installed a 1TB WD10EVDS last weekend. I just soft-booted in re-start tivo, 3 thumbs down...
> 
> My Tivo HD with the WD10EVDS booted up fine.


I will have to check this out. Do you mean that you can pick something to watch that is NOT in your Q?


----------



## jonra

MPSAN, yes you can just go to, Find Programs, Tivo Search and it will find netflix movies that are not in your Q. It's pretty cool. 

My son has the new play station 3 with netflix & it's even better. I'm sure Tivo will have this at some point... In his, you can actually see all the down-loadable netflix movies with descriptions, art work, etc. & watch. I'm not sure what happens with his if you only watch half the movie...

Sorry to get off subject...


----------



## richsadams

jonra said:


> My son has the new play station 3 with netflix & it's even better.


Glad to hear that the PS3 is a good investment. We're on the verge of buying one...more for the BlueRay player and web access than anything, but the improved Netflix experience will be a bonus! Okay...more apologies...back OT.


----------



## MPSAN

jonra said:


> MPSAN, yes you can just go to, Find Programs, Tivo Search and it will find netflix movies that are not in your Q. It's pretty cool.
> 
> My son has the new play station 3 with netflix & it's even better. I'm sure Tivo will have this at some point... In his, you can actually see all the down-loadable netflix movies with descriptions, art work, etc. & watch. I'm not sure what happens with his if you only watch half the movie...
> 
> Sorry to get off subject...


OK, I will see if I can search as well. Our son has Vista and he sees all the stuff on Netflix with all the info as well.

***UPDATE*** It does work, but you do need to have a title in mind to search for.

OK, back On Topic!


----------



## willv28

richsadams said:


> Congratulations and welcome to the club! Curious, did you try a soft reboot (menu restart)? I'm sure it's fine, but just as a reference point. Also by chance did you note the manufacture date? TIA...and enjoy!


Mine soft booted just fine as well.


----------



## richsadams

willv28 said:


> Mine soft booted just fine as well.


Nice! :up:


----------



## opus123

Ok, I've run 6 of the 7 tests in the Kick-start 54 diagnostic (on my internal drive).
- All were fast, except the 'sequential read' took about 6 hours
- All checked out so far

A little confusing, because it feels like there's an extra menu not accounted for in the instructions. Run S.M.A.R.T tests appears twice, alongside selecting internal or external drives.. and then again once you make a drive selection. To be safe I avoided it. and ran the 6 tests separately. Hopefully I didn't miss anything. 

Since everything passed, I'll move on to the KS 57 & 58 i guess.


----------



## richsadams

opus123 said:


> Since everything passed, I'll move on to the KS 57 & 58 i guess.


Sounds good. Again there are more than a few folks here that ran KS54 and it showed nothing wrong. After trying everything else they eventually pulled their drive and ran a full diagnostic program (WD's Lifeguard) and it turned out that there were problems, however it's a good start.

KS57 may only take a few minutes or could take several hours. The longer it takes the more likely there were issues. KS58 is transparent (you won't see the green warning screen) and might only run a few minutes but can go longer.

If all of that goes well but the problems remain I'd pull the drive, set it aside, and put the original back in for a few days to see if the issues continue or not.

Let us know how it goes!


----------



## opus123

It's all complete... KS 57 ran for 1-2 hours... 58 went very fast.

I'm going to delete all of the programs that recorded with pixelation, and see if it continues. If so, i'd just assume there was something wrong with the drive, since I haven't seen anything of this sort occur with my 2nd bedroom tivo.

I ordered a 10EVDS the other day to be safe/prepared... especially since it seems possible drive compatibility could prove problematic down the road.


----------



## richsadams

opus123 said:


> It's all complete... KS 57 ran for 1-2 hours... 58 went very fast.
> 
> I'm going to delete all of the programs that recorded with pixelation, and see if it continues. If so, i'd just assume there was something wrong with the drive, since I haven't seen anything of this sort occur with my 2nd bedroom tivo.
> 
> I ordered a 10EVDS the other day to be safe/prepared... especially since it seems possible drive compatibility could prove problematic down the road.


Good plan. If KS57 ran for a couple of hours it usually means that there were issues with the drive, most often bad sectors. It should have isolated the bad sectors preventing data being written to them again. That may do the trick but only time will tell.

If you do use the new drive it's always a good idea to run a full diagnostic prior to imaging it. Most drives are fine but now and then... Making sure it's in good working order can save a lot of grief later.


----------



## GreyhoundR

Hi all - unfortunately I started using these forums after, not before, I did my latest HD swap, but I have some good benchmark info here to add to the collective wisdom. First time poster, please excuse if I'm breaking a lot of forum etiquette! (Last time I posted on something like this, it was on a daily digest mailing list circa 1998).

I have two Tivo HDs bought this year (Tivo-Den in March and Tivo-Bed in August). In August at time I purchased Tivo-Bed, I bought two WD RE3 1tb drives (WD's high end enterprise drive with highest MTBF HD). I used WinMFS to copy + enlarge Tivo-Den (all internal, SATA to SATA) and I used WinMFS on the virgin drive image from the new Tivo-Bed and enlarged that onto the other new RE3 1tb drive. Both operations were quick and painless and have been running smooth through present day with zero glitches (aside from the noise of the RE3 which is insanely loud). 

Also, I'm a bit of a cooling/temperature fanatic with my computers, and all tech gear. . .having used maybe 100 hard drives in the last 10 years or so, I'm pretty sensitive to the method/mode of failure. So, the RE3s were really running too hot for me inside the Tivos and it was too loud for the Tivo-Bed in that room. I decided to try some 1tb WD Green consumer drives since they are approx $80 at CDW and see if I could get the temps and noise down a little bit.

First I did Tivo-Bed with WinMFS going from WD 1tb RE3 to WD 1tb Green, and it worked flawlessly. Tivo-Bed's new HD was a: WD10EADS-00M2B0 Model made on 8/27/09. Remember this is the one that started off as a virgin drive image and went directly to the 1tb RE3 (not sure if that made a difference, but it's an interesting stat).

Then I did Tivo-Den, same "from" and same "to" models and it didn't work so flawlessly. Differences: 1.) I don't think I said "yes" to the do you want to expand the unused space question (thinking it was going from 1tb to 1tb, how is there unused space?); 2.) This drive was technically expanded twice (once to the RE3 in August and now again to the EADS in November. This was also a WD10EADS-00M2B0, manufactured one day before on 8/26/09.

The symptom was works for a while, then reboots and hangs on "Welcome, powering up" screen. I tried the 2 different clean up options in WinMFS (clean swap file, and . . .something else), no luck. I ran GRC SpinRite (awesome utility!) on Levels 1-4, found no problems. I ran every kickstart test pertaining to HD/Maintenance, still no joy.

Then I googled for info about this drive in Tivos, came upon this forum and saw similar stories.

So I bought a new WD10EVDS-63N5B1, the "non-consumer" Green drive (approx $90 @ CDW), made on 10/10/09, used WinMFS to restore (w/o user recordings just to play it safe and make it go faster), worked easy as pie, and was able to restore some of my programs from the other Tivo where I had backed them up.

So, two exact same WD10EADS drives, two slightly different situations, two very different outcomes.

I think in any case, I would get the EVDS regardless, for the $10 it costs you get a 5 year warranty instead of a 3. Normally I go through hard drives quicker than that on PCs, etc, but all my S2 Tivos went more than 5 years before I outgrew them.

Hope this info helps. . . oh, and it never really occurred to me before this escapade what a lifesaver a fresh Tivo image could be. PM me if you'd like an image of mine - it's a .dmg file I did on my Mac, Win users should be able to change the extension to .iso and work with it. It's 25gb compressed image, not booted ever, uber new Tivo HD, with the partition layout intact. 

-Ry


----------



## richsadams

GreyhoundR said:


> Hi all - unfortunately I started using these forums after, not before, I did my latest HD swap, but I have some good benchmark info here to add to the collective wisdom. First time poster, please excuse if I'm breaking a lot of forum etiquette! (Last time I posted on something like this, it was on a daily digest mailing list circa 1998). <snip>


Welcome to the forum and very nice recap. :up: It does indeed seem that "re-using" the image on the one drive caused some issues although it could be something else. IIRC there is a limit to re-expanding a drive but I can't recall the specifics. And yes, each time, no matter the old or new drive's size, you have to tell winMFS to expand the new drive.

Like you I've done both...used an original TiVo drive image (preserve settings only) w/winMFS to create a new 1TB a few times as well as a mirror copy (preserved settings and recordings) from a 1TB WD10EADS to a 1TB WD10EVCS. Both went without a hitch.

Your WD10EADS was manufactured before the (apparently) problematic Aug/Sep date so you shouldn't see any issues. However have you attempted a soft reboot? (Restart TiVo from the menu.)

With regard to TiVo images, it's against forum policy (as well as TiVo's TOS) to distribute TiVo images so I'd avoid doing that. Fresh images included in a program called Instant Cake are always available from an approved vendor (and forum sponsor) DVRUpgrade.com. Link:

http://www.dvrupgrade.com/dvr/stores/1/instantcake.cfm

I'm a Mac guy as well but I keep a PC that I built handy for upgrades and other odds and ends. However most (all?) Mac upgraders have used a virtual machine (VMWare Fusion or Parallels) to accomplish the upgrade. Can you elaborate on your Mac experience since it's a little more complicated than using a standard PC?

Thanks again for the data points...always welcome and very valuable.

Enjoy!


----------



## sasmps

Ran into problems last night upgrading my series 3. I was copying the entire disk using the instructions from the forum, estimated 3 hours to complete. Sometime during the night, microsoft decided to reboot my box. I do not know how far it got, or if it completed. 

I dropped the new 1TB drive in the S3, and now it will not boot. 

Ok to just start over?


----------



## sasmps

Update... it helps if you connect the cable to the hard drive...

I have successfully rebooted the S3, and it appears I have all my old recordings, and able to access all channels. Guess I got lucky, and the microsoft reboot occured after completion.

I went into the system info screen, and the S3 reports the old disk capacity of 36 hours of HD. Does this update? How and where do you go to confirm Tivo knows it has all this extra disk? (1TB WD10EVDS).

Also the instructions say when MFScopy completes, i should get a prompt box asking if I want to expand the drive. As the machine rebooted, I did not see or respond to this prompt. Is that why the Tivo does not report the extra disK?


----------



## sasmps

I am reporting all is well... reattached the upgraded drive to WinMFS and used msfadd to address the extra space. Tivo now reports 157 hours of capacity.


----------



## richsadams

sasmps said:


> I am reporting all is well... reattached the upgraded drive to WinMFS and used msfadd to address the extra space. Tivo now reports 157 hours of capacity.


Nice work! If everything worked perfectly from the start it wouldn't have been nearly as satisfying would it?  Congrats!

I've been following your posts regarding the other (signal?) issues you've been dealing with. Hope that gets cleared up soon.

Oh...and welcome to the "Big Boys" club!


----------



## richsadams

Noted that MacMall is offering the Fantom 1TB Green eSATA drive for $59.99 AR. (Rebates end December 1st) That's the lowest price I've seen to date.

http://www.macmall.com/p/4927517?so...-31722708-2&srccode=cii_10043468&dpno=7532251

Series3 users have had long-term success with this drive and it can be attached via plug and play.

EDIT: Looks like OnSale.com is price matching the same drive:

http://www.onsale.com/p/product~dpn...75F5AF76043BEE002383A0BA4270707F?source=BWBCJ

BTW I've had experience with both vendors (or maybe they're one in the same?) and they both did a good job of being on time with good packing.

NOTE: This drive will NOT work as an expansion drive via plug and play with the TiVo HD or HDXL models.


----------



## sasmps

Thanks Riches.... your post are also a 'must read'. 

My GSAS issues have disappeared as strangley as the appeared. 3 months and no GSAS issues. I still moniter the other thread to see if I can help, wish I could do more.


----------



## keenanSR

sasmps said:


> Update... it helps if you connect the cable to the hard drive...


I did this the very first time I installed a larger drive in my S3.


----------



## Dssturbo1

sasmps said:


> Update... it helps if you connect the cable to the hard drive...
> 
> I have successfully rebooted the S3, and it appears I have all my old recordings, and able to access all channels. Guess I got lucky, and the microsoft reboot occured after completion.
> 
> I went into the system info screen, and the S3 reports the old disk capacity of 36 hours of HD. Does this update? How and where do you go to confirm Tivo knows it has all this extra disk? (1TB WD10EVDS).
> 
> Also the instructions say when MFScopy completes, i should get a prompt box asking if I want to expand the drive. As the machine rebooted, I did not see or respond to this prompt. Is that why the Tivo does not report the extra disK?


 still a glitch in WinMFS. it's been reported for awhile. would have thought Spike would put out an update with that fixed.

glad you got it going full speed congrats.


----------



## sasmps

I am not sure it is a WinMFS bug, more a situation of circumstance. 

Because I lauched MFSCopy and let it run overnight, I was not there when the prompt to expand the drive displayed (as it took close to 4 hours to back up the entire legacy disk). 

The Microsoft update reboot that occured (apparently after the copy was complete thank goodness) terminated the program and wiped the prompt from the screen, so when I checked on it in the morning, I had no idea if the copy completed sucessfully, nor did i see the prompt to expand the drive.

Some possible suggestions for WinMFS:

A log.... track the progress of the copy and report a successfull completion. If you get rebooted for some reason, you will know where you stand.


Expand Switch...Why would you not want to expand the drive? Seems that could be check box selection when you launch MFSCopy, so a prompt when the copy is complete is no longer necessary. The choice is still presented, just at the beginning. When you are copying the entire disk, this may be handy.

Harddrive Adaptor recommendation..... I have 4 computers in the house, and not one of them had an extra power port on the SATA ribbon cable in the box. They had one additional SATA port, but not for power. I needed ports for 2 additional drives anyway, so a USB Harddrive adaptor was the only way to go. The instructions for WinMFS mention drive docks, but I did not find any that could handle 5 and a half inch SATA drives. If you are going to buy one, I would get one that supports IDE, SATA, 2,3, and 5 inch drives. I purchased 2 Inland IDE/SATA/USB Harddrive adaptors, and had to return both units back to the store due to bad transformers. The replacement units worked ok, but I feel the Inland units are very cheap (yes, only $15 each). So I would suggest a more extensive recommendation on just what to buy here. There are some really smart folks that contribute to the forum.. any suggestions offered go to the top of my consideration list. 

When I removed the new drive and put it back on the computer and fired up WinMFS, it took 2 seconds for MFSadd to expand the drive. I now see all 157 hours of recording time. 

As for WinMFS, slick... nicely done for a utility that the author does not charge a dime for. There some awfully smart folks that donate there talents to the betterment of this user community.


----------



## GreyhoundR

> Your WD10EADS was manufactured before the (apparently) problematic Aug/Sep date so you shouldn't see any issues. However have you attempted a soft reboot? (Restart TiVo from the menu.)


Yes, attempted soft reboot, and it would immediately hang on the "Welcome, powering up. . .". However, that was only on the Tivo that had been previously expanded (Tivo-Den) and also didn't have the "use extra space" option checked on the most recent clone attempt.



> With regard to TiVo images, it's against forum policy (as well as TiVo's TOS) to distribute TiVo images so I'd avoid doing that. Fresh images included in a program called Instant Cake


_Links to Instant Cake removed by GreyhoundR due to link restrictions on new users in posts, see OP for links_

Thank you very much for pointing that out and sorry for my faux pas - sponsors for websites like this man oh man, they need our patronage. Hard core users and a company that's willing to subsidize a user forum, that's always been a good match.



> I'm a Mac guy as well but I keep a PC that I built handy for upgrades and other odds and ends. However most (all?) Mac upgraders have used a virtual machine (VMWare Fusion or Parallels) to accomplish the upgrade. Can you elaborate on your Mac experience since it's a little more complicated than using a standard PC?


Sorry if I was unclear - I did all WinMFS work directly in real PCs, using internal SATA connections. I only used my Mac to create my personal backup image of the clean Tivo drive, for posterity purposes. . .because it's so falling off a rock simple to do drive clone/compress/restore work on a Mac with any interface (USB, Firewire, SATA, etc).



> Thanks again for the data points...always welcome and very valuable.


So glad to have found a fun and knowledgeable community! I don't know if it's possible to be more addicted to Tivo than I already am, but maybe a Slingbox HD for the holidays, who knows? I'll have to see what the word on the street here is and get busy searching the forums.

-Ry


----------



## GreyhoundR

> Harddrive Adaptor recommendation..... I have 4 computers in the house, and not one of them had an extra power port on the SATA ribbon cable in the box. They had one additional SATA port, but not for power. I needed ports for 2 additional drives anyway, so a USB Harddrive adaptor was the only way to go. The instructions for WinMFS mention drive docks, but I did not find any that could handle 5 and a half inch SATA drives.


(if answers to any of this go way off topic or would have little interest to the group at large, feel free to PM me, I'd still like to help you)

1. 5 inch Sata drives? I'm unclear. . .SATA drives come in 2.5" (laptop) and 3.5" (desktop) sizes. Desktop computers have 5.25" drive bays that are usually occupied by optical drives, but with an adapter bracket can hold a 2.5" or 3.5" hard drive.

2. Docks/Caddies - I own lots of them, USB, Firewire, eSata, multi drive, single drive. . .in my experience I've gotten consistently faster and more reliable results using internal SATA connections connected directly to the motherboard. If you don't have any other options, then yes - you might need a dock. But going straight SATA to SATA is faster and more reliable than even SATA to eSATA (in certain occasions when there is a less than high quality chipset on the eSATA chipset in your external enclosure). Personally I like the multi-interface dual-drive ones that are out there (especially Firewire since most people don't have eSATA ports yet). So far I like the Startech SATADOCK22UE for a dual drive solution and the NewerTech Voyager Q for a quad interface solution.

3. Don't have enough internal SATA ports available on your motherboard? Even if you unplug your optical drive? If not, you're sort of SOL without adding in another SATA controller card or just doing a dock for one of the drives.

4. Don't have enough SATA power ports? Very easy to add quite cheaply, go to monoprice and search "sata" - absolute great quality and dirt cheap sata cables, sata power, etc. A lot of them are out of stock at the moment (they are moving their warehouse) Newegg is also good, just search "sata cable."

Hope this helps!
-Ry


----------



## musiclover408

I wanted to ask the "experts" before I spend this kinda cash. I found this on eBay and it seems like a good deal especially with the lifetime service included. I have read a little bit elsewhere that drives with 2tb can be some trouble.

Here's the link to the auction.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220515246817

Can you tell me if this is a good deal or not or is it better to get an XL and a DVR expander external drive? Suggestions and help please.

Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

GreyhoundR said:


> I did all WinMFS work directly in real PCs, using internal SATA connections. I only used my Mac to create my personal backup image of the clean Tivo drive, for posterity purposes. . .because it's so falling off a rock simple to do drive clone/compress/restore work on a Mac with any interface (USB, Firewire, SATA, etc).


Ah, got it...and oh, so true...drop dead simple with a Mac...a little more complicated with PC's. Although winMFS is as about as simple as it gets when it comes to implementing a TiVo HDD upgrade.

Enjoy!


----------



## richsadams

musiclover408 said:


> I wanted to ask the "experts" before I spend this kinda cash. I found this on eBay and it seems like a good deal especially with the lifetime service included. I have read a little bit elsewhere that drives with 2tb can be some trouble.
> 
> Here's the link to the auction.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220515246817
> 
> Can you tell me if this is a good deal or not or is it better to get an XL and a DVR expander external drive? Suggestions and help please.
> 
> Thanks!


Disclaimer: I am NOT an expert...just a TiVo enthusiast.  Note that the ebay seller is installing two 1TB hard drives rather than a single 2TB drive. So the difference between buying an actual 1TB TiVo HDXL with a 1TB WD My DVR Expander really comes down to price and warranties. The ebay unit will not carry a TiVo warranty. I haven't looked at one of the seller's units, but I'd wager that he simply added the second drive in the same way an eSATA drive would be added, but made it an internal install instead. There are some other folks here that have done the same thing with success. I am always more comfortable with a single internal hard drive rather than two.

Is it a good deal? A brand new TiVo HD is $249 from TiVo or about $215 from Amazon or Buy.com at the moment. Adding 2 1TB drives yourself would run about $160 or so. Straight-out (not upgrading, etc.) lifetime service is $399. So a DIY is cheaper and if you kept the original drive you could always put it back in and as long as you didn't notify TiVo about what you had done, your warranty would still be intact.

A TiVo HDXL is $499 from TiVo or about $399 from Amazon or Buy.com. A 1TB WD My DVR Expander is about $130 from Amazon or Buy.com. Lifetime Service is still $399. From a comfort level, everything is under a one-year warranty or TiVo's warranty can be extended to three years for an additional $39.99. In total a good deal higher than the ebay offer, but a little apples and oranges.

The ebay seller has an excellent rating and if you can live without the standard TiVo warranty and suport and don't want the hassle of cobbling everything together yourself it's a reasonable deal IMHO.

FWIW the part that most often fails in TiVo is the hard drive. TiVo's Lifetime Service is tied to the unit (motherboard) so you can replace the hard drive (or other components) as often as you'd like while retaining the Lifetime Service.

Also, based on numerous posts about the 500GB My DVR Expanders failing at about 1 year to 18 months...I'd opt for a larger internal drive any time. But again, the ebay unit has two hard drives and there's no warranty on the TiVo itself (the WD GP hard drives being used have a 3-year warranty). I'm comfortable replacing hard drives myself. YMMV.

I'm sure others will chime in, but hopefully that helps. Best of luck and let us know what you decide and why...always good to know. TIA.


----------



## Dssturbo1

sasmps said:


> I am not sure it is a WinMFS bug, more a situation of circumstance.
> 
> ...
> When I removed the new drive and put it back on the computer and fired up WinMFS, it took 2 seconds for MFSadd to expand the drive. I now see all 157 hours of recording time.
> 
> As for WinMFS, slick... nicely done for a utility that the author does not charge a dime for. There some awfully smart folks that donate there talents to the betterment of this user community.


yes it's a glitch/bug.

when it ask to expand and you click yes it is actually doing MFSSuperSize instead of MFSAdd to expand to use to full hard drive size potential. if you clicked on the Supersize option it would have told you it was already turned on. And yes it is easy to fix after you find out it didn't properly expand by pulling the drive and reconnecting and doing the MFSAdd function......

I sent Spike a pm on the mfslive forums about it. but so far no update to correct it.

i also asked him how to send a donation/paypal$ for his great work but never got an answer.


----------



## sasmps

AH.... then I agree. Expand the drive should mean expand the drive.


----------



## brooster

richsadams said:


> Noted that MacMall is offering the Fantom 1TB Green eSATA drive for $59.99 AR. (Rebates end December 1st) That's the lowest price I've seen to date.
> 
> http://www.macmall.com/p/4927517?so...-31722708-2&srccode=cii_10043468&dpno=7532251
> 
> Series3 users have had long-term success with this drive and it can be attached via plug and play.
> 
> EDIT: Looks like OnSale.com is price matching the same drive:
> 
> http://www.onsale.com/p/product~dpn...75F5AF76043BEE002383A0BA4270707F?source=BWBCJ
> 
> BTW I've had experience with both vendors (or maybe they're one in the same?) and they both did a good job of being on time with good packing.
> 
> NOTE: This drive will NOT work as an expansion drive via plug and play with the TiVo HD or HDXL models.


Will this install the same as the - Western Digital My DVR Expander 1 TB -
on my Series 3? Plug and Play? What's the best cable to use?

Thanks,
bruce
2 year old Series 3 software v 11


----------



## richsadams

Dssturbo1 said:


> when it ask to expand and you click yes it is actually doing MFSSuperSize instead of MFSAdd to expand to use to full hard drive size potential. if you clicked on the Supersize option it would have told you it was already turned on. And yes it is easy to fix after you find out it didn't properly expand by pulling the drive and reconnecting and doing the MFSAdd function......


Hmmm...that's interesting and not my experience with the latest (or any previous) version of winMFS. Following the instructions all of my drives have always expanded and then clicking on Supersize has always worked. I've never had to go back to do anything. But I have seen others post that they have so I can't be sure why. Did you post on MFSLive Forum directly? Spike is very good at responding to posts. I'd guess he gets a heap of PM's and might not have time to answer them all.

Good info in any case. Let us know if you hear anything. :up:


----------



## richsadams

brooster said:


> Will this install the same as the - Western Digital My DVR Expander 1 TB -
> on my Series 3? Plug and Play? What's the best cable to use?
> 
> Thanks,
> bruce
> 2 year old Series 3 software v 11


Yes, Series3 TiVo's will accept most eSATA drives via plug and play (refer to the faq for the recommended list). Be sure to connect it properly and follow the on-screen instructions. There is a warning screen that will appear stating that the drive is unapproved, do you want to proceed? Three thumbs up (IIRC) to continue and you're golden.

The drive comes with an eSATA cable and AFAIK no one has had any problems with it. You could buy the recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable as a backup if you wanted.


----------



## brooster

Hi Rich,

I went to Amazon and am looking at the Western Digital My DVR Expander 1 TB. I read the reviews and there were quite a few Tivo people that had problems with that drive. Many posted that the drive died after a years use.

I came to the forum here and saw your post about the Fantom 1TB Green eSATA drive. I am interested a reliable drive and if I can save money that's fine but I am willing to pay a bit more if there is something with a proven track record of reliability.

Is there a drive that costs a little more that might be a better answer or should I go with the Fantom?

Thanks,
bruce
2 year old Series 3 software v 11


----------



## richsadams

brooster said:


> Hi Rich,
> 
> I went to Amazon and am looking at the Western Digital My DVR Expander 1 TB. I read the reviews and there were quite a few Tivo people that had problems with that drive. Many posted that the drive died after a years use.
> 
> I came to the forum here and saw your post about the Fantom 1TB Green eSATA drive. I am interested a reliable drive and if I can save money that's fine but I am willing to pay a bit more if there is something with a proven track record of reliability.
> 
> Is there a drive that costs a little more that might be a better answer or should I go with the Fantom?
> 
> Thanks,
> bruce
> 2 year old Series 3 software v 11


Hi Bruce. You can certainly spend more but AFAIK the Fantom has been doing quite well for a couple of years now for folks that have them. It has a two-year warranty, twice that of the WD.

One consideration for any hard drive is heat...heat is the enemy of hard drives. The Fantom and the WD My DVR Expander are not fan-cooled. If the drive is going to be placed in an enclosed area w/o much or any ventilation it would be wise to buy an eSATA drive with an integrated cooling fan or put one together yourself using one of the recommended hard drives and the recommended fan-cooled Antec MX-1 enclosure. If it will be in an area that has decent air circulation (away from other heat generating components) the Fantom's aluminum drive enclosure is reported to dissipate heat just fine.

Another consideration is that TiVo won't provide "support" for anything but the WD My DVR Expander. That really doesn't mean much more than if you had some trouble with the Fantom (or any other "unapproved" eSATA drive) and called TiVo they would probably not be able to help. IMHO that really means very little as in general eSATA drives work or they don't. There's very little that TiVo can do from their end if there's a problem. WD's support amounts to an RMA if the drive fails in the first year and that's it. Just something to think about.

I guess if I were in the market for an eSATA drive for my Series3 I'd be more than comfortable buying the Fantom.


----------



## brooster

thanks for the info. I'll probably end up going that direction.

bruce


----------



## Dssturbo1

richsadams said:


> Hmmm...that's interesting and not my experience with the latest (or any previous) version of winMFS. Following the instructions all of my drives have always expanded and then clicking on Supersize has always worked. I've never had to go back to do anything. But I have seen others post that they have so I can't be sure why. Did you post on MFSLive Forum directly? Spike is very good at responding to posts. I'd guess he gets a heap of PM's and might not have time to answer them all.
> 
> Good info in any case. Let us know if you hear anything. :up:


hey rich,

yes when i first ran into the glitch i posted on mfslive. posted the MFSInfo and Spike quickly gave me the solution that my drive was not expanded and to reattach and just do the MFSAdd, which worked just fine then.

also posted on this thread page 87 post 2598 about my issues and that Spike had given me the answer and gotten through the first S3 upgrade.

ran into the same glitch when i upgraded my next S3 and then my TiVo HD but i had the answer so no biggie.

......3x same glitch so it could be me not following instructons right .......but saspms and other have issues too as you've seen too.
i think i used 9.3f beta, i haven't checked to see if spike has any updates out since then


----------



## richsadams

Dssturbo1 said:


> hey rich,
> 
> yes when i first ran into the glitch i posted on mfslive. posted the MFSInfo and Spike quickly gave me the solution that my drive was not expanded and to reattach and just do the MFSAdd, which worked just fine then.
> 
> also posted on this thread page 87 post 2598 about my issues and that Spike had given me the answer and gotten through the first S3 upgrade.
> 
> ran into the same glitch when i upgraded my next S3 and then my TiVo HD but i had the answer so no biggie.
> 
> ......3x same glitch so it could be me not following instructons right .......but saspms and other have issues too as you've seen too.
> i think i used 9.3f beta, i haven't checked to see if spike has any updates out since then


Good to know. :up: It does come up fairly often so whatever is happening it happens to too many people and some kind of "fix" is in order, either with the software, procedures, instructions or ...  Thanks for keeping after it.

Of course, it's hard to fault someone that does so much at absolutely no cost I guess. Just glad Spike is so dedicated. I'd hate to go back to the old hand-coding days.


----------



## ThAbtO

richsadams said:


> I'd hate to go back to the old hand-coding days.


Or even the older punch card days! :shudder:


----------



## richsadams

ThAbtO said:


> Or even the older punch card days! :shudder:


Oh come on...that's just an urban myth...right?


----------



## dswallow

Can you imagine how much paper it'd take to transfer an MPEG movie via punch card? Or even paper tape? Imagine if we never had DVD's or even video tape, but instead movies were rented and sold to the home on punch cards... We'd need a *lot* of "Be kind, don't shuffle" stickers.


----------



## waynomo

dswallow said:


> Can you imagine how much paper it'd take to transfer an MPEG movie via punch card? Or even paper tape? Imagine if we never had DVD's or even video tape, but instead movies were rented and sold to the home on punch cards... We'd need a *lot* of "Be kind, don't shuffle" stickers.


Those are some images!!! Someone could probably figure it out. How much data could you get on a punch card?


----------



## waynomo

Successfully upgraded my Tivo HD last night with the WD10EVDS using the preserve recordings method. I had no problems at all including the mfssupersize option. Tivo now shows 157 hours as the capacity. 

I purchased the drive from buy.com on 17 Nov 09. I believe the manufacture date was 10-Oct-2009. I can verify if anyone really wants to know. I meant to write it down, but was excited to see if it worked so closed up the Tivo before I remembered to do it.

The original drive was attached to a SATA port. The new drive was in a external drive housing hooked up via a USB cable. The process of copying everything to the new drive took less than two hours. Before I shut down my Tivo I went in to my deleted programs and permanently removed all that were there. (Assumption- It would have copied those over to the new drive also if they were still there.) My Tivo had about 15 hours of HD programming on it when I made the copy.

Thanks to everybody for all their contributions here and especially Spike for WinMFS!


----------



## richsadams

waynomo said:


> Successfully upgraded my Tivo HD last night with the WD10EVDS using the preserve recordings method. I had no problems at all including the mfssupersize option. Tivo now shows 157 hours as the capacity.
> 
> I purchased the drive from buy.com on 17 Nov 09. I believe the manufacture date was 10-Oct-2009. I can verify if anyone really wants to know. I meant to write it down, but was excited to see if it worked so closed up the Tivo before I remembered to do it.
> 
> The original drive was attached to a SATA port. The new drive was in a external drive housing hooked up via a USB cable. The process of copying everything to the new drive took less than two hours. Before I shut down my Tivo I went in to my deleted programs and permanently removed all that were there. (Assumption- It would have copied those over to the new drive also if they were still there.) My Tivo had about 15 hours of HD programming on it when I made the copy.
> 
> Thanks to everybody for all their contributions here and especially Spike for WinMFS!


Nice job! Good idea about the deleted recordings as well. :up:

Did you happen to try a soft reboot - restart TiVo from the menus? Just want to be sure the soft reboot issue with the other drives hasn't migrated to the EVDS. If there is an issue, knowing the manufacture date would be valuable but to date that model has been fine.

Welcome to the club and enjoy!


----------



## MPSAN

waynomo said:


> Those are some images!!! Someone could probably figure it out. How much data could you get on a punch card?


Well, the 80-80 cards could hold 80 bytes of data. They were also great for writing notes on them as they fit well in a shirt pocket!


----------



## hearncl

MPSAN said:


> Well, the 80-80 cards could hold 80 bytes of data. They were also great for writing notes on them as they fit well in a shirt pocket!


I still have a couple of boxes of cards, some punched, left over from when they became obsolete at my work. They are useful for several tasks around the house.


----------



## MPSAN

hearncl said:


> I still have a couple of boxes of cards, some punched, left over from when they became obsolete at my work. They are useful for several tasks around the house.


, I remember that we got a bunch of Mohawk Key to Tape machines. That was a BIG deal! Remember a dropped box of cards?

Let's see, how can I put this back OT? Hmmmmm...I know, I still never tried "fixing" my 160GB drive that fails after a few hours. I want to write all zeros to it and then do a restore. It would be great to see if I can fix the drive!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Let's see, how can I put this back OT? Hmmmmm...I know, I still never tried "fixing" my 160GB drive that fails after a few hours. I want to write all zeros to it and then do a restore. It would be great to see if I can fix the drive!


Oh, nice try.


----------



## waynomo

richsadams said:


> Nice job! Good idea about the deleted recordings as well. :up:
> 
> Did you happen to try a soft reboot - restart TiVo from the menus? Just want to be sure the soft reboot issue with the other drives hasn't migrated to the EVDS. If there is an issue, knowing the manufacture date would be valuable but to date that model has been fine.
> 
> Welcome to the club and enjoy!


No issue with the soft reboot. (Messages & Settings -> Restart or Reset System -> Restart the Tivo HD DVR)

Actually one little hiccup. When the Tivo restarted both tuners were tuned to the same channel. I did it twice and made sure each tuner was tuned to a different channel. After the restart both tuners were tuned to the channel that was showing before the restart. This is not a big deal, but it wasn't what I was expecting.


----------



## richsadams

waynomo said:


> No issue with the soft reboot. (Messages & Settings -> Restart or Reset System -> Restart the Tivo HD DVR)
> 
> Actually one little hiccup. When the Tivo restarted both tuners were tuned to the same channel. I did it twice and made sure each tuner was tuned to a different channel. After the restart both tuners were tuned to the channel that was showing before the restart. This is not a big deal, but it wasn't what I was expecting.


Thanks for the follow up. I can't recall the channel situation for new installs or upgrades...guess I never paid much attention. AFAIK whatever you saw isn't an issue though as long as things are functioning normally.

Enjoy!


----------



## ThAbtO

I think the 2 tuner on same channel is normal as it happens on mine (unmod'd) when I have it rebooted.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Oh, nice try.



I guess I may just wait 'til I need it. I had used the one I took out of the Unit I upgraded to 1TB, and the "bad" unit has now been working with that 160GB drive. I keep thinking I will leave well enough alone now! However, my sig says I don't do that very well!


----------



## Fortynine

I had to remove the WD Tivo Expander Drive on my S3 and presently have a 1tb WD10EVDS hard drive on order as a replacement for the internal drive.

Has anyone tried to convert their old WD Tivo Expander Drive for use as additional storage for their PC etc. I bought an esata to usb adapter and plugged the drive into my Windows Vista PC but could not get the PC to recognize the drive so I could reformat it. Will _ have to remove the drive from it's enclosure first?

Thanks._


----------



## hearncl

Fortynine said:


> Has anyone tried to convert their old WD Tivo Expander Drive for use as additional storage for their PC etc. I bought an esata to usb adapter and plugged the drive into my Windows Vista PC but could not get the PC to recognize the drive so I could reformat it. Will _ have to remove the drive from it's enclosure first?
> _


_
I pried open my WD Expander, removed the drive, and reformatted it on my Mac for use as an internal drive or in an external enclosure. (It was a job to get it out, as the Expander is not designed to be opened.) For reformatting, I plugged it into a Thermaltake external dock connected by USB, and it was recognized by the Mac._


----------



## Fortynine

hearncl said:


> I pried open my WD Expander, removed the drive, and reformatted it on my Mac for use as an internal drive or in an external enclosure. (It was a job to get it out, as the Expander is not designed to be opened.) For reformatting, I plugged it into a Thermaltake external dock connected by USB, and it was recognized by the Mac.


Thanks for the heads up. I guess I'll have no choice but to also pry it open and then take it from there.


----------



## richsadams

Fortynine said:


> Has anyone tried to convert their old WD Tivo Expander Drive for use as additional storage for their PC etc. I bought an esata to usb adapter and plugged the drive into my Windows Vista PC but could not get the PC to recognize the drive so I could reformat it. Will _ have to remove the drive from it's enclosure first?_


_I know a number of folks have "re-purposed" the hard drive from their Expanders, but like hearncl I'm pretty sure most if not all were pulled from their enclosure. Based on posts more often than not it's the enclosure that's the problem, not the actual hard drive itself. That may be why your PC isn't recognizing the drive._


----------



## Fortynine

richsadams said:


> I know a number of folks have "re-purposed" the hard drive from their Expanders, but like hearncl I'm pretty sure most if not all were pulled from their enclosure. Based on posts more often than not it's the enclosure that's the problem, not the actual hard drive itself. That may be why your PC isn't recognizing the drive.


Thanks again for the info. I've resigned myself to the fact that I'll have to 'rip' the drive from the enclosure. If I'm unable to get to first base with drive after that, then I may start to pull out what hair I have left.

By the way, I did attempt to run the WD diagnostics on the drive but was unsuccessful. After about 30/40 seconds the diagnostic program would just freeze. I suspect that once I remove the drive from it's enclose this probably won't happen again.


----------



## HazelW

I was able to use the esata on my computer and got it to format the drive.


----------



## Nihilator

Well, after five years, ten months, and one day, I'm back! No, seriously, it's been that long. See my sig, which I'm leaving unchanged from that era, to see what I've had in the past. Since then I've added a Toshiba DVD/Tivo combo and two series 2's, all three of which have lifetime and have been hard-drive-upgraded.

Now I've got a TivoHD, and I've just completed the internal drive upgrade, and I've got some notes. Sure is easier than when I was doing this to Series 1's! Ya got yer Windows GUI tools, yer SATA drive docks, and yer sub-$100-per-TB drives! All fancy-schmancy!

So, I bought a WD15EADS because the marginal extra cost ($20) was worth it for the added 250GB capacity. Unfortunately, I *now* see that the WD15EADS gives the soft-reboot problem, which I do, indeed, have. I suppose I can live with it, since I can't imagine the box requiring soft reboots that often. And it's a bit irritating knowing there's a quarter terabyte in there that's unused, but I can live with that, too.

WinMFS didn't perform the upgrade as smoothly as I had hoped it would. I did multiple incremental backups (i.e. right out of the box, then after GS, then after a software upgrade, then after pairing the CC, etc.), ran it for a couple weeks, and then did the upgrade to the 1.5TB drive. When doing the restore in WinMFS, it attempted to use the total remainder of the drive (1.2TB), which did not work...the TivoHD rebooted, and then reported the original capacity of the 160GB drive. The key was to perform a simple restore, *not* allow the restore function to use the rest of the drive capacity, but *then* use mfsadd to use the correct 1.0TB additional capacity.

So now it's up to 198 hours of HD, 1733 hours of SD. Sweet. Thanks for the software, spike!

--Chris


----------



## Fortynine

HazelW .... How long did it take to format your WD expander drive. Mine has been undergoing the format process for about 16 hrs and it's only 24% complete.


----------



## HazelW

Fortynine said:


> HazelW .... How long did it take to format your WD expander drive. Mine has been undergoing the format process for about 16 hrs and it's only 24% complete.


I just checked again and apparently I did not partition or format it. I just verified that the OS (Win7) recognized it OK. 16 hours seems like a long time. Can you tell if it is making progress.

I did have another expander and I took the disk out altogether and it is working fine in another system.


----------



## Fortynine

HazelW said:


> I just checked again and apparently I did not partition or format it. I just verified that the OS (Win7) recognized it OK. 16 hours seems like a long time. Can you tell if it is making progress.
> 
> I did have another expander and I took the disk out altogether and it is working fine in another system.


Indeed it is making slow progress. Very sloooow progress. I haven't upgraded to Windows 7 yet but I had to remove the drive from it's enclosure in order for my Vista machine to regcognize it. The drive is attached to an external doc that is connected to my laptop via USB.


----------



## Chiparoo

In the FAQ question #13 Are there any drives to avoid?

The following WD10EVVS drive from a batch on 19 SEP 2009 also exhibits the soft boot hang symptom and is not usable as an internal drive in a TiVo HD.

MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
Product of Thailand
DATE: 19 SEP 2009
DCM: Dxxxxxxxxx


----------



## MPSAN

Chiparoo said:


> In the FAQ question #13 Are there any drives to avoid?
> 
> The following WD10EVVS drive from a batch on 19 SEP 2009 also exhibits the soft boot hang symptom and is not usable as an internal drive in a TiVo HD.
> 
> MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
> Product of Thailand
> DATE: 19 SEP 2009
> DCM: Dxxxxxxxxx


As I mentioned before, this will not get resolved unless people call WD and give them the drive info and mfg. date.


----------



## brooster

richsadams said:


> Yes, Series3 TiVo's will accept most eSATA drives via plug and play (refer to the faq for the recommended list). Be sure to connect it properly and follow the on-screen instructions. There is a warning screen that will appear stating that the drive is unapproved, do you want to proceed? Three thumbs up (IIRC) to continue and you're golden.
> 
> The drive comes with an eSATA cable and AFAIK no one has had any problems with it. You could buy the recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable as a backup if you wanted.


I got the drive but I don't think I got an eSATA cable. The manual says that it comes with a USB and a FireWire cable and that's what I got. Can I get a good eSATA cable at Best Buy or some other local type dealer?


----------



## Teeps

Teeps 10-04-2008 said:


> Installed the 1Tb Fantom Drives "GreenDrive" today. Touch wood it all went well. Though, TiVo fussed about it being an unsupported unit, the installation completed and there is 165 hours of HD storage now. I can't believe how quiet the drive is.
> As has been noted before, the drive did not come with an eSata cable.
> 
> This is the cable I bought: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330271805637 the connection is secure at both ends; but does not have a positive lock.


With over a year of 24/7 use; the Fantom Drive is still churning along.


----------



## soliari

So, I've never upgraded a TiVo and now with my new (refurb) TiVo I'm finding that 20 hours goes way to quick ... especially with all the NFL I watch!

Anyhow, I read the FAQ and decided that if I purchased an appropriate HDD and e-SATA enclosure, then the process was academic.

So, here's what I purchased:

Western Digital WD10EVDS 1TB HDD
Rosewill RX35-AT-SC BLK 3.5" Black USB2.0 & eSATA enclosure.

I've installed the HDD into the enclosure and did the following.

pulled the power on the TiVo HD.
Turned on the enclosure.
Connected the e-SATA cable between the TiVo and the Rosewill.
Powered on the TiVo.

The external storage menu tells me I have an unsupported device.

Is this normal? Do I actually HAVE to run the mfslive proceedures to marry the drives?

Thanks.


----------



## cr33p

Just got in about 4 new WD10EADS Units and any of them built in August Or Sept exhibit the soft reboot problem, not sure if it has been mentioned before or not, but I noticed when I unplugged the drive from the unit after the soft reboot hang it wasnt even spun up? Im sure this is not new news but if it is, just wanted to offer my info up. So like others have stated, something is telling the tivo not to re spin up the drive after a soft boot. 

Why though did it always exhibit in the S3 unit and not THD at first? wouldnt this also confirm that its partially a Tivo problem as well? Something in the OS code?


----------



## Dssturbo1

soliari said:


> So, I've never upgraded a TiVo and now with my new (refurb) TiVo I'm finding that 20 hours goes way to quick ... especially with all the NFL I watch!
> 
> Anyhow, I read the FAQ and decided that if I purchased an appropriate HDD and e-SATA enclosure, then the process was academic.
> 
> So, here's what I purchased:
> 
> Western Digital WD10EVDS 1TB HDD
> Rosewill RX35-AT-SC BLK 3.5" Black USB2.0 & eSATA enclosure.
> 
> I've installed the HDD into the enclosure and did the following.
> 
> pulled the power on the TiVo HD.
> Turned on the enclosure.
> Connected the e-SATA cable between the TiVo and the Rosewill.
> Powered on the TiVo.
> 
> The external storage menu tells me I have an unsupported device.
> 
> Is this normal? Do I actually HAVE to run the mfslive proceedures to marry the drives?
> 
> Thanks.


 With the Tivo S3 unit it would work as a plug and play type situation.

BUT with the Tivo HD unit it only works as plug n play with the Tivo officially supported WD My DVR expander 500Gb or 1Tb drive units.

So Yes using your Tivo HD unit you would need to use WinMFS to marry your external esata drive to the internal unit, then should work just fine. Or you could just use your new 1Tb drive to replace the original Tivo HD drive. Maybe your preferred option since you need to open and remove the original drive anyway


----------



## soliari

Dssturbo1 said:


> With the Tivo S3 unit it would work as a plug and play type situation.
> 
> BUT with the Tivo HD unit it only works as plug n play with the Tivo officially supported WD My DVR expander 500Gb or 1Tb drive units.
> 
> So Yes using your Tivo HD unit you would need to use WinMFS to marry your external esata drive to the internal unit, then should work just fine. Or you could just use your new 1Tb drive to replace the original Tivo HD drive. Maybe your preferred option since you need to open and remove the original drive anyway


Thanks for the response. This was my fear going into it .... my problem is I don't have a desktop. All my home computing is done on laptops, so ... ugh.


----------



## Joe3

soliari said:


> Thanks for the response. This was my fear going into it .... my problem is I don't have a desktop. All my home computing is done on laptops, so ... ugh.


I did it on old HP Tablet.

Go back and study this thread.


----------



## richsadams

Dssturbo1 said:


> Or you could just use your new 1Tb drive to replace the original Tivo HD drive. Maybe your preferred option since you need to open and remove the original drive anyway





Joe3 said:


> I did it on old HP Tablet.
> 
> Go back and study this thread.


Sound advice on both counts. Use winMFS and your original TiVo drive to image your new drive and replace the miniscule internal drive in your TiVo HD. Put the original on the shelf as a backup. You can use a laptop. Everything you need to know is in the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ.


----------



## richsadams

brooster said:


> I got the drive but I don't think I got an eSATA cable. The manual says that it comes with a USB and a FireWire cable and that's what I got. Can I get a good eSATA cable at Best Buy or some other local type dealer?


Apologies for misleading you regarding the SATA cable. 

Did you actually receive a Fantom enclosure that has USB/Firewire/eSATA connectors? The drive listed only offered USB/eSATA. The enclosure w/Firewire usually costs another $30 or more. If so I wish I would have ordered one at the time for my Mac! 

In any case, enjoy!

BTW, I just checked the MacMall and OnSale web sites and both are down for "maintenance". Leads me to believe that they are indeed the same company...or at least share the same server. Coincidence? I don't think so.


----------



## MojoRilla

I would highly recommend the Kobalt 8-in-1 Precision Torx Head Screwdriver from Lowes. It comes with both #10 and #15 tips, and works perfectly on the hard to reach hard drive screws. And it is only $5.98. Only drawback is that it is not magnetic.


----------



## zundian

I bought a WD10EADS 1TB drive and a Calvary Dual HDD Dock. When I put either the original TiVoHD drive or the new HDD in the dock, it will be seen in WinMFS, but when they're both in, nothing appears in WinMFS.

Is there some way to do a full backup in WinMFS?


----------



## Nihilator

Are the switches in the correct position on the drive? I don't have mine in front of me, but that dock can be set up to either show individual drives or a single drive spanned across two physical drives. Check the sticker.

By the way, I tried to do the same thing, but since it wasn't obvious how to do it, I just said 'forget it'.

--Chris


----------



## zundian

It's set up for JBOD (or Just a bunch of disks). Doesn't matter which slot I use for either drive.I finally just gave up and cannibalized my optical drive's sata connection, which finally got it to work.

I called Calvarty and the tech support guy said that sometimes the drive spanning on the docks just doesn't work, so I guess mine is getting returned.


----------



## soliari

Thanks for the advise.



Joe3 said:


> I did it on old HP Tablet.
> 
> Go back and study this thread.


I'm using a macbook pro ... i broke down and put an XP bootcamp partition on it for this upgrade.



richsadams said:


> Sound advice on both counts. Use winMFS and your original TiVo drive to image your new drive and replace the miniscule internal drive in your TiVo HD. Put the original on the shelf as a backup. You can use a laptop. Everything you need to know is in the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ.


I started the process tonight, but I had to terminate it due to time constraints. It had been sitting there running for about 1hr 7 minutes when I terminated it ... but it was at sitting at the marker "Estimated time to complete: 7:03 minutes" for about 20 minutes. Is this a normal type of situation and how long is a reasonable time to give it before I quit the mfscopy procedure?

I was hoping to take over the 2 shows (about 2 hours of HD) that are left on the TiVo, but I guess I can do without them and use the backup/restore method if I must.

Again, your advise is appreciated.


----------



## richsadams

soliari said:


> I'm using a macbook pro ... i broke down and put an XP bootcamp partition on it for this upgrade. I started the process tonight, but I had to terminate it due to time constraints. It had been sitting there running for about 1hr 7 minutes when I terminated it ... but it was at sitting at the marker "Estimated time to complete: 7:03 minutes" for about 20 minutes. Is this a normal type of situation and how long is a reasonable time to give it before I quit the mfscopy procedure?
> 
> I was hoping to take over the 2 shows (about 2 hours of HD) that are left on the TiVo, but I guess I can do without them and use the backup/restore method if I must.
> 
> Again, your advise is appreciated.


Time to transfer between drives depends on two things: the amount of data being transferred and the transfer rate. Some HD recordings are very big, some are more compressed. USB has a very slow transfer rate by comparison to SATA, etc.

It's normal for the system appear idle. (IIRC there's some reference to that in the first post.) If you have a program to verify activity it will show that work is being done in the background. That's not to say that it might not have frozen for some reason, but reports of things appearing to be static are very common.

I've never used a virtual machine to create an upgraded drive so I've no idea how long it would take to transfer a couple of HD recordings. Seven hours seems like a long time, but between the slow data transfer rate, any conversion process (if there are any) or whatever it's possible. Perhaps someone else can chime in on that.

Truncated backup/restore is going to be much quicker of course.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## soliari

richsadams said:


> Time to transfer between drives depends on two things: the amount of data being transferred and the transfer rate. Some HD recordings are very big, some are more compressed. USB has a very slow transfer rate by comparison to SATA, etc.
> 
> It's normal for the system appear idle. (IIRC there's some reference to that in the first post.) If you have a program to verify activity it will show that work is being done in the background. That's not to say that it might not have frozen for some reason, but reports of things appearing to be static are very common.
> 
> I've never used a virtual machine to create an upgraded drive so I've no idea how long it would take to transfer a couple of HD recordings. Seven hours seems like a long time, but between the slow data transfer rate, any conversion process (if there are any) or whatever it's possible. Perhaps someone else can chime in on that.
> 
> Truncated backup/restore is going to be much quicker of course.
> 
> Happy upgrading!


Very strange. I started the process again this morning and it only took 32 minutes to complete.

I did change some power settings in XP tho to leave all hard disks on forever and to never sleep.

TiVo now reports 157 hours HD recording time! Awesome!

Thanks for the quick responses and patience!


----------



## richsadams

soliari said:


> TiVo now reports 157 hours HD recording time! Awesome!


Saahhweeet!! And all on a Mac? Priceless.


----------



## brooster

richsadams said:


> Yes, Series3 TiVo's will accept most eSATA drives via plug and play (refer to the faq for the recommended list). Be sure to connect it properly and follow the on-screen instructions. There is a warning screen that will appear stating that the drive is unapproved, do you want to proceed? Three thumbs up (IIRC) to continue and you're golden.
> 
> The drive comes with an eSATA cable and AFAIK no one has had any problems with it. You could buy the recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable as a backup if you wanted.


Hi Rich,

I got the drive from tiger direct. It was sold out at the other places. 
I ordered a cable got the drive working (179 Hrs HD!) with my tivo but it is a Noisy drive! It sounds like somebody practicing morse code. clickity clickity. Is there much difference in the noise levels on these drives?

bruce


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Time to transfer between drives depends on two things: the amount of data being transferred and the transfer rate. Some HD recordings are very big, some are more compressed. USB has a very slow transfer rate by comparison to SATA, etc.
> 
> It's normal for the system appear idle. (IIRC there's some reference to that in the first post.) If you have a program to verify activity it will show that work is being done in the background. That's not to say that it might not have frozen for some reason, but reports of things appearing to be static are very common.
> 
> I've never used a virtual machine to create an upgraded drive so I've no idea how long it would take to transfer a couple of HD recordings. Seven hours seems like a long time, but between the slow data transfer rate, any conversion process (if there are any) or whatever it's possible. Perhaps someone else can chime in on that.
> 
> Truncated backup/restore is going to be much quicker of course.
> 
> Happy upgrading!


One other thing I do to make it a lot faster is to delete the recordings that were in the erased listing...they are still there so when you say there are 2 HD shows, I bet there are a whole lot more!


----------



## richsadams

brooster said:


> Hi Rich,
> 
> I got the drive from tiger direct. It was sold out at the other places.
> I ordered a cable got the drive working (179 Hrs HD!) with my tivo but it is a Noisy drive! It sounds like somebody practicing morse code. clickity clickity. Is there much difference in the noise levels on these drives?
> 
> bruce


What you're hearing is head seek movement. Drive activity noise varies...it depends on the AAM (auto acoustic management) level set by the manufacturer. That controls the seek speed. High seek levels cause more noise than lower/slower seek levels. TiVo doesn't benefit from high seek levels. Most A/V drives are set to low seek levels and along with other features are usually very quiet.

I'm a little surprised as Fantom has been using the WD GP hard drives in their "Green" series which is one of the quietest they make. Earlier users posted that the Fantom drives they have were quiet. I wonder if they've switched to something else? If you have a moment can you post the drive model number? TiVo Central > Messages and Settings > Account & System Information > System Information. Scroll down to the second screen and you should see a drive number next to the "External Storage" line.

The AAM setting on most drives (Seagate being the exception) can be changed/lowered (from 258 or so to 124) by running a program called the Hitachi Feature Tool. It's a very simple procedure however it usually involves connecting the hard drive directly to a PC (SATA connection on the MB) so I'm not sure if it will work with a drive inside an enclosure. I don't know why it wouldn't but I've never tried using it that way. Perhaps someone can chime in? MPSAN?

It's also possible that there is something wrong with the drive, but until we get the drive model number we won't be able to check the specs to see if it's supposed to be quieter or not.

Glad to hear that you have a lot of new real estate...but the noise issue is troubling.


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> One other thing I do to make it a lot faster is to delete the recordings that were in the erased listing...they are still there so when you say there are 2 HD shows, I bet there are a whole lot more!


Good point! I always forget that.  There probably should be a recommendation in the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ suggesting that if you don't think you'll need any of your deleted recordings to permanently delete everything in your Recently Deleted folder before upgrading.


----------



## zundian

richsadams said:


> The AAM setting on most drives (Seagate being the exception) can be changed/lowered (from 254 or so to 128) by running a program called the Hitachi Feature Tool. It's a very simple procedure however it usually involves connecting the hard drive directly to a PC (SATA connection on the MB) so I'm not sure if it will work with a drive inside an enclosure. I don't know why it wouldn't but I've never tried using it that way. Perhaps someone can chime in? MPSAN?


Before finally giving up and opening up my PC, I was able to change the AAM setting on my WD10EADS while it was in my (apparently faulty) USB dual drive dock.


----------



## MPSAN

Rich, I have always connected the drives to SATA ports on a MoBo with an ICH10R so I have not tried a USB converter to run it. I do know that the WD diags liked the SATA and did not like the USB converter I tried on my other system. I am not sure just what tool I used and am not sure it was the Hitachi tool. I would have to look the next time the other system is on.


----------



## soliari

richsadams said:


> Saahhweeet!! And all on a Mac? Priceless.


absolutely on a mac! is there any other way to fly?


----------



## wesbc

Hi, I'm coming back to the tivo world with the Tivo HD. Plan on upgrading the internal drive. I'm reading up on all the issue with the WD green drives with soft reboot problem.

What is the current safe bet? The Seagate LPs perhaps? I understand that there's no AAM on it, but being that it's a slow spinning drive that should not be much of an issue.

Thanks!


----------



## CraigK

wesbc said:


> Hi, I'm coming back to the tivo world with the Tivo HD. Plan on upgrading the internal drive. I'm reading up on all the issue with the WD green drives with soft reboot problem.
> 
> What is the current safe bet? The Seagate LPs perhaps? I understand that there's no AAM on it, but being that it's a slow spinning drive that should not be much of an issue.


I don't think there have been any problems reported with the Western Digital WD10EVDS and TiVo HD yet.

As I posted earlier it was a lot quieter than the Seagate ST31000322CS I tried the first time around. It may cost a few dollars more, but worth it in my opinion.


----------



## richsadams

wesbc said:


> What is the current safe bet? The Seagate LPs perhaps? I understand that there's no AAM on it, but being that it's a slow spinning drive that should not be much of an issue.


So far the only drives to suffer the soft reboot issue belong to WD. Per Craig's note above, the WD10EVDS is still a safe bet (as of today anyway). The Seagate LP series should work fine as well. I have two Seagate 1.5TB LP drives on order for an NAS I'm building. At 5900 RPM I expect they'll be quiet (and run cool) but I'll report back in case anyone's watching.


----------



## Spenner

I have a 4-month-old Tivo HD, upgraded to 1TB with the WD10EVVS. Starting yesterday the Tivo is rebooting itself "often". Last night it was about every 10 minutes, after 3rd one we gave up watching for the night. Today I just set it to record a couple of movies in a row so that I'd know if it was rebooting, and sure enough after about 1-1/2 hours a movie was recorded in 3 pieces due to the reboots.

I still have to try the kickstarts, but I'm wondering what my strategy should be if I need to replace the HD or the Tivo itself. Since the current one is still functioning somewhat, if I buy a new 1TB drive before trying return this one for warranty, can I use the it (the current one) to image the new drive, so that I keep my recordings and cablecard pairing? Or must I use my original 160GB drive to setup the new one?


----------



## richsadams

Spenner said:


> I have a 4-month-old Tivo HD, upgraded to 1TB with the WD10EVVS. Starting yesterday the Tivo is rebooting itself "often". Last night it was about every 10 minutes, after 3rd one we gave up watching for the night. Today I just set it to record a couple of movies in a row so that I'd know if it was rebooting, and sure enough after about 1-1/2 hours a movie was recorded in 3 pieces due to the reboots.
> 
> I still have to try the kickstarts, but I'm wondering what my strategy should be if I need to replace the HD or the Tivo itself. Since the current one is still functioning somewhat, if I buy a new 1TB drive before trying return this one for warranty, can I use the it (the current one) to image the new drive, so that I keep my recordings and cablecard pairing? Or must I use my original 160GB drive to setup the new one?


Sorry to hear that your TiVo isn't behaving. It does sound like the hard drive is failing. These things happen.

If the kickstarts don't do the trick I would probably reinstall the original hard drive and run it for a bit to make sure there isn't something else going on. If things run normally I'd go ahead and pick up another of the recommended 1TB drives and try using your current 1TB drive to image it and keep the recordings (Section V, 19b of the FAQ). There are no guarantees that the problem won't migrate but it sounds more like the drive itself (trouble handling I/O corrections, bad sectors...?) than actual data corruption. Worst case is that you have to use your original hard drive to image a new one. You were wise to keep it.

Best of luck and let us know how things go.


----------



## Tivogre

OK. I am really interested in getting a 1.5 or 2tb drive working in a Tivo HD.

I believe I understand all of the limitations (1TB per partitions, 2TB total) => maximum size of 1TB + original drive.

What I don't understand is why one can't expand one of the existing media partitions to 1TB, THEN create a new partition pair using the remainder of the drive.

This should allow use of a full 1.5 or 2TB drive.

Is this a tools issue? A fundamental Tivo issue I don't understand?

I see that the pdisk utility seems to be available for Tivo on the MFSLive disk.... but I'm not expert enough to understand how to expand or destroy / recreate one of the existing partitions.

Am I way off base here?


----------



## dale77095

UNCLE!! 

I have a Tivo Series 3/HD and it has not been modified. It's running V11.0x. Recently I came across an external drive from Fantom - good price - good reviews..bought it. After using it for awhile with my W7 computer, I decided I didn't really need it and thought how great it would be if I could just use it on my TiVo. Since it supported USB and eSata - I decided to connect it and see what happened. I did a few Internet searches and re-found this site. (I've not been here since I upgraded (twice) and had to recover (once) my Series 1 Tivo - years ago.) Anyway - read a few posts and figured it might work. Tried it and Tivo saw the drive and said that it was not supported. It's a WD10EAVS.


I kept reading and convinced myself that the WD10EAVS might not work after all - but it's too late - I had the bug - I now HAD to have and external drive on my HD Tivo. I found the long thread with many posts and tons of good information and concluded that by purchasing the proper 1TB Seagate drive (ST31000322CS) and the proper enclosure (Antec MX-1) I'd be good to go with a super easy (plug it in) upgrade cause my HD Tivo has NEVER been modified. Long story shorter - it doesn't work either. Before you ask - yes - powered down the Tivo and drive before connecting etc, etc.

The Tivo sees the drive, even knows the model number, but still says it's unsupported. In all that reading I kept reading about the importance of the cable - but am I really supposed to believe that the cable is keeping it from adding the device?

I'm capable of going through the long (MFSLIVE, etc) process of upgrading, but I'd be really happy to just be able to use the external drive as is. 21 hours of HD doesn't go far enough. At this point I'm considering connecting the new drive to my W7 PC just to be sure it works, but I'm worried that Windows might put a signature on the drive and that the Tivo might not like that. 

So I'm posting here asking for advice. I appreciate any help you guys can give in...thanks!!

If I have to go the "long" route, then I may as well try to use both my 1TB drives...but again - I'd be happy just to use the plug and play route if possible.


----------



## richsadams

Tivogre said:


> Am I way off base here?


Well, the answer is maybe, probably or yes.  There is a specific reason that you can't expand the size of TiVo's HDD recording capacity to anything greater than the original HDD size plus 1TB and it has to do with the TiVo HD's kernel limitations.

That said, it in fact can and has been done with the Series3, but it takes more than a passing knowledge of TiVo's OS and inner works to do it. AFAIK no one has accomplished it with a TiVo HD.

If you're bound and determined to go there the best place to start would be to search the author of winMFS's web site forum:

http://www.mfslive.org/forums/

You'll have plenty of company but to date Spike, the creator of winMFS, has made it clear that it's not something that can be done at least right now.


----------



## richsadams

dale77095 said:


> UNCLE!! I have a Tivo Series 3/HD and it has not been modified.


Welcome...back! It's always good to have an early pioneer in our midst! I remember those Series1/Hinsdale days. Life is much better now. :up:

First...let's clarify what model of TiVo you have. Based on your recording capacity it is almost certainly what everyone refers to as a TiVo HD.









TiVo HD (TCD652160)

All high-def TiVo's are of the Series3 line. For reference purposes the original model is referred to as a Series3, yours is a TiVo HD and the most recent model is a TiVo HDXL.

Now if you carefully read through the first post you'll see that the only external hard drive that you can use with your TiVo HD via plug and play is the Western Digital My DVR Expander. Even though TiVo will recognize the hard drive, no other external drive will work by simply plugging it in.

There is the option of "marrying" an unapproved drive to the internal drive. It involves pulling the internal drive and connecting both it and the new external drive to a PC and running a program called winMFS. As you've figured out, it would be just as easy to simply upgrade the internal hard drive to 1TB if you're going to go to all of that trouble. Put the original hard drive on the shelf as a backup and be done with it. Lots of real estate and one less failure point.

Your best bet is to read through the first post completely and weigh your options. OR you could just go out and buy a 500GB or 1TB WD My DVR Expander. The caveat emptor is that the 500GB models seem to be failing on a regular basis after about 12 to 18 months. The 1TB model hasn't been around long enough to determine if it will suffer from the same short lifespan.

It sounds as if you're a pretty savvy guy and know your way around computers. If so upgrading TiVo's hard drive will be a cake walk. Read the FAQ. Everything you need to know is there. Follow the instructions exactly and you'll be enjoying more space in no time!

Oh, and yes, it's best to start with a fresh, unformatted hard drive. If you have a windows formatted drive be sure to completely wipe it clean with a 3rd party program before attempting the upgrade or the program (winMFS) will not recognize it.

Best of luck and post any other questions you might have.


----------



## Tivogre

It CAN be done (as referenced by the DDB folks); there is an ebay guy selling the 2TB drived for Tivo HD.

Apparently he went the rout of creating "combined" media partitions vs. pairs.

The DDB folks were complaining in one thread about him selling "their stuff".

I wonder, if I bought one of those working drives from ebay, could I create a back up and then restore it to multiple drives for multiple Tivos?

Oh... dvr_dude on ebay is the guy who sells the 2TB drives that work on the Tivo HD.


----------



## dale77095

richsadams said:


> Welcome...back! It's always good to have an early pioneer in our midst! I remember those Series1/Hinsdale days. Life is much better now. :up:
> 
> First...let's clarify what model of TiVo you have. Based on your recording capacity it is almost certainly what everyone refers to as a TiVo HD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TiVo HD (TCD652160)
> 
> All high-def TiVo's are of the Series3 line. For reference purposes the original model is referred to as a Series3, yours is a TiVo HD and the most recent model is a TiVo HDXL.
> 
> Now if you carefully read through the first post you'll see that the only external hard drive that you can use with your TiVo HD via plug and play is the Western Digital My DVR Expander. Even though TiVo will recognize the hard drive, no other external drive will work by simply plugging it in.
> 
> There is the option of "marrying" an unapproved drive to the internal drive. It involves pulling the internal drive and connecting both it and the new external drive to a PC and running a program called winMFS. As you've figured out, it would be just as easy to simply upgrade the internal hard drive to 1TB if you're going to go to all of that trouble. Put the original hard drive on the shelf as a backup and be done with it. Lots of real estate and one less failure point.
> 
> Your best bet is to read through the first post completely and weigh your options. OR you could just go out and buy a 500GB or 1TB WD My DVR Expander. The caveat emptor is that the 500GB models seem to be failing on a regular basis after about 12 to 18 months. The 1TB model hasn't been around long enough to determine if it will suffer from the same short lifespan.
> 
> It sounds as if you're a pretty savvy guy and know your way around computers. If so upgrading TiVo's hard drive will be a cake walk. Read the FAQ. Everything you need to know is there. Follow the instructions exactly and you'll be enjoying more space in no time!
> 
> Oh, and yes, it's best to start with a fresh, unformatted hard drive. If you have a windows formatted drive be sure to completely wipe it clean with a 3rd party program before attempting the upgrade or the program (winMFS) will not recognize it.
> 
> Best of luck and post any other questions you might have.


Thanks Rich! I appreciate the timely response. I suspected it was something obvious that I was missing.

So...l'll start reading and I'll definitely have a few questions. It's really good to know that some smart people are just a few clicks away.

I'll let you know where I end up. At this point I'm intending to use both my new 1TB drives in the Tivo and leave my original drive as a backup. Few details to work through I guess. I do have a couple of questions now as I begin thinking about it....

1) Do you have a 3rd party format tool that you recommend?
2) Provided that I connect the eSata drives to internal (on-board) Sata connectors, is there any reason I can't leave them in their enclosures? I ask this question because I don't have any way to provide them power in my computer. I have two Sata power cables in the computer and one powers the C: drive and the other powers the DVD drive. I guess if I don't have to boot from CD/DVD, then I could borrow those cables (data and power) for one of the new drives. This may be a lame question - I don't know. This PC is my first exposure to Sata - my old XP PC ran reliable for years and just recently gave up the ghost and I replaced it with a computer from Woot.
3) I ran the Hitachi HDDScan3.2-release against my WD10EAVS while it was connected USB and it *appeared* to work when I set the AAM from 254 to 128. I say *appeared" because when I re-ran the utility it was back to 254. Do you know of that drive's AAM can be modified? Does it have to be connected via Sata to work?

Thanks again!


----------



## richsadams

Tivogre said:


> It CAN be done (as referenced by the DDB folks); there is an ebay guy selling the 2TB drived for Tivo HD.


I stand corrected. Previously there was an ebay seller selling a single 2TB drive for Series3's and selling TiVo HD's with 2 1TB drives (basically a 1TB TiVoHD with an internal 1TB eSATA drive). I see now that someone else is selling a single 2TB drive for TiVo HD's (better option than the dual drive concept). Not something we can replicate with winMFS, but if the OP's up for it. :up:


----------



## richsadams

dale77095 said:


> It's really good to know that some smart people are just a few clicks away.


Oh...I wouldn't go that far. 



dale77095 said:


> 1) Do you have a 3rd party format tool that you recommend?
> 2) Provided that I connect the eSata drives to internal (on-board) Sata connectors, is there any reason I can't leave them in their enclosures? I ask this question because I don't have any way to provide them power in my computer. I have two Sata power cables in the computer and one powers the C: drive and the other powers the DVD drive. I guess if I don't have to boot from CD/DVD, then I could borrow those cables (data and power) for one of the new drives. This may be a lame question - I don't know. This PC is my first exposure to Sata - my old XP PC ran reliable for years and just recently gave up the ghost and I replaced it with a computer from Woot.
> 3) I ran the Hitachi HDDScan3.2-release against my WD10EAVS while it was connected USB and it *appeared* to work when I set the AAM from 254 to 128. I say *appeared" because when I re-ran the utility it was back to 254. Do you know of that drive's AAM can be modified? Does it have to be connected via Sata to work?
> 
> Thanks again!


1. If you're referring to the upgrade, then yes, winMFS is the program you'll want to use. It's discussed in the FAQ and can be found at MFSLive.org: http://www.mfslive.org/winmfs/
2. The MB has SATA connectors and the enclosures have eSATA connectors. You probably have cables w/eSATA connectors on each end. SATA cables are very inexpensive and having a couple around never hurts: http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10226&cs_id=1022601&p_id=1251&seq=1&format=2 If your computer is fairly recent it probably has several empty SATA connectors on the MB and extra SATA power connectors (usually wrapped up with all of the cables coming out of the power supply). Otherwise you can pick up a 3-way SATA power splitter and use the DVD SATA power cable to create two open connections: http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10226&cs_id=1022604&p_id=5184&seq=1&format=2
3. The WD10EAVS is an A/V GP drive and IIRC the AAM should already be set to 124. Odd that it isn't. In any case, yes, you should be able to adjust it but you'll need an older version (v2.11) of the Hitachi Feature Tool to do it. The link is in the FAQ (Section IV, #31). Since it's a DOS program I've always connected the hard drives directly to the MB to run it, but I think it will also work with eSATA...but not USB. You can set the AAM any time without having an impact on the drive's contents.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## Mike1138

Getting ready to buy a drive to upgrade my TiVo but I can't find the WD10EVDS on Newegg. Will the WD10EADS work okay? It sounds like there might be issues with the Caviar Green drives? Should I skip the WD drives all together, and if so what should I buy?


----------



## CraigK

Mike1138 said:


> Getting ready to buy a drive to upgrade my TiVo but I can't find the WD10EVDS on Newegg. Will the WD10EADS work okay? It sounds like there might be issues with the Caviar Green drives? Should I skip the WD drives all together, and if so what should I buy?


When I was looking (Sep/Oct/Nov) I didn't see any of the "EV" drives on Newegg so I ended up getting them from Amazon.

The WD10EVDS is still on the "Good Drives" list in the first post of this thread. No problems reported for this drive - yet.

WD10EACS, WD10EADS and WD10EVVS have all been removed from the recommended list.


----------



## MPSAN

Mike1138 said:


> Getting ready to buy a drive to upgrade my TiVo but I can't find the WD10EVDS on Newegg. Will the WD10EADS work okay? It sounds like there might be issues with the Caviar Green drives? Should I skip the WD drives all together, and if so what should I buy?


Go through BING and the WD10EVDS is at onSale for about $90 + shipping. You do get BING cashback, but search and you will see the drive elsewhere.


----------



## drey

richsadams said:


> The "green technology is the problem" theory has been proposed from a number of folks for several years now. However WD GP drives did not exhibit the soft boot issue originally yet they've always touted the "IntelliPark" technology. In the beginning all of their GP drives worked with all TiVo models (I still have one of the original drives which worked in our Series3 and TiVo HD (although it's working as a backup drive now and no longer in one of our TiVo's). It was only after various changes were made to the drive lines (and then in some but not in others) that issues have arisen. Some are no longer working at all and others are exhibiting the soft reboot issue...all models which worked w/o any problems initially.
> 
> So good ideas and input but I'm still more inclined to believe it has something to do with firmware changes and not the "green" technologies, although they aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.


After doing more research on the issue, I'm actually happy to mention that I was able to make newer "unworkable" WD10EADS and WD10EVVS to be perfectly compatible with TiVo HD and in some instances even compatible with Series 3. The issue definitely has to do with WD's "IntelliPark" that is proprietary to WD Green drives.

So far results look very good. If there is enough interest, I probably will write-up a little "how-to" and post it once I fully confirm that I do works.


----------



## Spenner

drey said:


> So far results look very good. If there is enough interest, I probably will write-up a little "how-to" and post it once I fully confirm that I do works.


The WD10EVVS I bought on 9/7/09 recently had the rebooting problem. Kickstart 57 seems to have fixed it (for now). At the time I thought it'd be a safe drive since it was supposedly the same one used in the Tivo HDXL. I'd be interested in hearing your findings, especially if my Tivo starts having more problems.


----------



## richsadams

drey said:


> So far results look very good. If there is enough interest, I probably will write-up a little "how-to" and post it once I fully confirm that I do works.


If it's something most of us "lay people" can do it would be most welcome!


----------



## dale77095

OK - so I'm in the middle of the upgrade for the 2nd time tonight and wondering - how long should MFSCOPY take? The first time I was doing the copy it got down to 17.5 mins left or so and stayed there for about 20 minutes with no change. I decided that something must be wrong and cancelled it, shut down the computer, checked all the connections and started it over. This time I remembered to disable my anti-virus thinking that was probably my issue, but now it seems to be stuck at 18 mins left with AV disabled.

After I restarted it, I went browsing the forum and noticed that some people say this process can take a long time if you're USB connected, but I'm not. I'm upgrading my original TiVo HD 160 GB drive to a WD10EAVS 1TB Sata drive. The new drive is in an external enclosure, but that seems to be OK. I guess the question is how long should I wait until I figure this is not working? I intended to add my new Seagate 1TB to this once it's done, but I can use it for the internal drive if necessary. I just don't know what to expect. 

Any ideas from those that have 'been there and done that'?

thanks,
d


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> If it's something most of us "lay people" can do it would be most welcome!


If it is Intellipark doing it, I think that WD *MAY* send a program (on request???).

If I were to call them I might ask them if they could send me wdidle3.exe to run on a WD10EADS or EVVS, etc. They may say they have no idea what that program does or what you are talking about. I'm just sa'in.


----------



## ThAbtO

MPSAN said:


> If it is Intellipark doing it, I think that WD *MAY* send a program (on request???).
> If I were to call them I might ask them if they could send me wdidle3.exe to run on a WD10EADS or EVVS, etc.


http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=792488&st=30&p=591241846

WDidle3_1_00.zip


----------



## drey

You guys both are right. It is indeed wdidle3.exe that disables IntelliPark. Once disabled, I can successfully reboot both HD and S3.

The only issue with wdidle3.exe is that it needs to run from DOS. Essentially, the steps are:

- Create bootable CD-ROM (or floppy drive, if you have it) with wdidle3.exe on it

- Connect "bad" WD drive to SATA. Ensure it is not in RAID or AHCI, but rather in EIDE Compatible mode. This is needed so older DOS can detect the drive.

- Boot from from above CD/floppy and run "wdidle3 /D" to disable IntelliPark. The message should say that it has been disabled.

- Remove the drive, load TiVo image and test. You should no longer have "soft-boot" problem.

Below is the link to bootable CD that I created with wdidle3.exe on it. When at DOS prompt, change to drive letter R: and access wdidle3.exe from there.

http://tiny.cc/o7Lvr

-


----------



## dale77095

dale77095 said:


> OK - so I'm in the middle of the upgrade for the 2nd time tonight and wondering - how long should MFSCOPY take? The first time I was doing the copy it got down to 17.5 mins left or so and stayed there for about 20 minutes with no change. I decided that something must be wrong and cancelled it, shut down the computer, checked all the connections and started it over. This time I remembered to disable my anti-virus thinking that was probably my issue, but now it seems to be stuck at 18 mins left with AV disabled.
> 
> After I restarted it, I went browsing the forum and noticed that some people say this process can take a long time if you're USB connected, but I'm not. I'm upgrading my original TiVo HD 160 GB drive to a WD10EAVS 1TB Sata drive. The new drive is in an external enclosure, but that seems to be OK. I guess the question is how long should I wait until I figure this is not working? I intended to add my new Seagate 1TB to this once it's done, but I can use it for the internal drive if necessary. I just don't know what to expect.
> 
> Any ideas from those that have 'been there and done that'?
> 
> thanks,
> d


OK - so I've been stuck at 18 mins left for over 2 hours. While searching through the forum I found some people talking about theirs getting stuck and the general conclusion was that there must be an error on the original TiVo drive that prevents the MFSCOPY from completing. The article went on to suggest that I use the RESTORE feature of WinMFS to get by this.

I'm tempted to cancel this and try to proceed with the instructions as if it worked since WinMFS recognizes the format as a TiVo S2 or S3. I'm equally tempted to try it again with my Seagate as the target drive instead of this green WD drive. Of course, if the error is with the original TiVo drive, that would be pointless.

So - I intend to cancel this MFSCOPY and proceed with the instructions. Worst case, it doesn't work and I start over with a restore to the WD drive. At least I *hope* that's the worst case.


----------



## dale77095

dale77095 said:


> OK - so I've been stuck at 18 mins left for over 2 hours. While searching through the forum I found some people talking about theirs getting stuck and the general conclusion was that there must be an error on the original TiVo drive that prevents the MFSCOPY from completing. The article went on to suggest that I use the RESTORE feature of WinMFS to get by this.
> 
> I'm tempted to cancel this and try to proceed with the instructions as if it worked since WinMFS recognizes the format as a TiVo S2 or S3. I'm equally tempted to try it again with my Seagate as the target drive instead of this green WD drive. Of course, if the error is with the original TiVo drive, that would be pointless.
> 
> So - I intend to cancel this MFSCOPY and proceed with the instructions. Worst case, it doesn't work and I start over with a restore to the WD drive. At least I *hope* that's the worst case.


OK - the early returns are in....

The system booted OK and it saw 318 hours of HD recording available...that's pretty sweet. All of my shows (15ish) showed up in "Now Playing", but only about 5 of them actually have content, so I deleted the rest (that's a bummer cause I had some Stevie Ray Vaughn in there and some Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, etc). Anyway - it's recording King of the Hill as I type and it appears to be working OK. I plan to put it back together proper now and see what happens. My original TiVo HD 160 GB drive is on the shelf.

In retrospect, I probably should've just shelled out $129 for the DVR expander and waited for them to have them in stock and ship. I really hate losing my SRV...damn.

Regardless of that...thanks for all the help Rich!!


----------



## richsadams

dale77095 said:


> OK - the early returns are in.... The system booted OK and it saw 318 hours of HD recording available...that's pretty sweet.


Excellent! :up: I'm wondering if the shows that were saved were on your hard drive before you connected your external drive?

In any case, although frustrating I'm glad you stuck with it. You can now relax because eventually you'll have so many recordings saved that you'll be so busy watching TV you won't have time for anything else! 

Welcome to the (very) Big Boys Club!


----------



## dale77095

richsadams said:


> Excellent! :up: I'm wondering if the shows that were saved were on your hard drive before you connected your external drive?
> 
> In any case, although frustrating I'm glad you stuck with it. You can now relax because eventually you'll have so many recordings saved that you'll be so busy watching TV you won't have time for anything else!
> 
> Welcome to the (very) Big Boys Club!


I may not completely understand your question..but...here's my answer.

I was tempted to put the single drive in and see how it looked before expanding to the 2nd drive. Since it was going to be so much trouble (physical location of the Tivo, etc) and since it was only a 1 minute operation to go ahead and add the 2nd drive - I decided to forego the intermediate testing.

All of my recordings on the Tivo we "live" recordings, meaning that none of them were in the Deleted Recordings folder. Ironically, the ones I lost included ALL of the ones that I had marked 'Save Until I Delete' 

My original hope had been to put grow the TiVo's storage capacity (immediately) and eventually find a way to burn my recordings to a DVD, instead of a VCR. Which brings this question: Why in the world does TiVo still have a save to VCR? How do most people save their recordings? HDMI signal split to a DVD recorder? (I don't even know if an HDMI splitter exists...I'm just guessing it would.)

Thanks again Rich. The encouragement and info were both valuable components to the success of the upgrade.


----------



## jlib

Thanks, drey, for the sleuthing on the Intellipark/Soft Reboot issue and wdidle3.exe. This is indeed big! The Intellipark feature is not needed for our purposes anyway. I hope to be able to test this some weekend soon since my drive is a victim of this problem.


----------



## richsadams

dale77095 said:


> I may not completely understand your question..but...here's my answer.
> 
> How do most people save their recordings?


I should have been more clear about the recordings saved/lost question. If there were recordings on your TiVo before you connected your external hard drive they would not have been lost when you divorced your external drive. I was just wondering if the recordings that survived your upgrade were made prior to connecting your external hard drive.

I think most people use TiVo Desktop or one of the other third-party programs like KMTTG (I use iTiVo) to transfer their recordings to their computers and then edit them (VideoReDo TVSuite is the #1 editor for Windows-based computers...one day they promise to have it for Mac's) and burn them to DVD. Or I'm sure some folks just transfer them to their computers and then burn them to DVD.

Enjoy!


----------



## richsadams

drey said:


> You guys both are right. It is indeed wdidle3.exe that disables IntelliPark. Once disabled, I can successfully reboot both HD and S3.


Just saw this...excellent work! :up: I don't have one of the "faulty" drives, but it'll be interesting to know how it goes for others. Well done.


----------



## richsadams

jlib said:


> I hope to be able to test this some weekend soon since my drive is a victim of this problem.


Fingers crossed. Thanks for keeping us posted.


----------



## eaayoung

I guess Tivo has figured out that I'm not using the My DVR expander drive anymore. They just sent a survey to me questioning my experience with the drive and asked why I'm not using it anymore. I gave them a mouth full from how they seem to fail way too early and they doesn't work well with a Tuning Adapter. At least that was my experience.

I also begged they introduce a new system with the Tuning Adapter already built into the Tivo. I can't really complain..., since installing the new drive in my S3, no real problems with the Tuning Adapter. I do seem to be getting the occasional lockup of the system when I try to tune to a channel. And it's not always a SDV channel either. System just seems to lock up after the channel comes in with the guide stuck on the screen and then the Tivo reboots itself after a minute or so. Probably the Tuning Adapter. But that's an issue for another thread.


----------



## Redding Delivery

jlib said:


> Thanks, drey, for the sleuthing on the Intellipark/Soft Reboot issue This is indeed big! The Intellipark feature is not needed for our purposes anyway. I hope to be able to test this some weekend soon since my drive is a victim of this problem.


I ran wdidle3 today on (2) WD5000AVVS drives I purchased last month. They had soft boot problem before. I just disabled the timer and installed in (2) THD's and they work perfectly. Thanks for the info


----------



## drey

Redding Delivery said:


> I ran wdidle3 today on (2) WD5000AVVS drives I purchased last month. They had soft boot problem before. I just disabled the timer and installed in (2) THD's and they work perfectly. Thanks for the info


You're very welcome! Glad to hear my information was useful.

On the side note, using steps that I described earlier will also allow you to use WD10EADS on original Series 3 without soft-boot issue.


----------



## richsadams

drey said:


> You're very welcome! Glad to hear my information was useful.
> 
> On the side note, using steps that I described earlier will also allow you to use WD10EADS on original Series 3 without soft-boot issue.


Wow! Although the WD10EADS needs AAM settings lowered, they are less expensive than most of their counterparts. That's even better news! :up:


----------



## dale77095

richsadams said:


> I should have been more clear about the recordings saved/lost question. If there were recordings on your TiVo before you connected your external hard drive they would not have been lost when you divorced your external drive. I was just wondering if the recordings that survived your upgrade were made prior to connecting your external hard drive.
> 
> I think most people use TiVo Desktop or one of the other third-party programs like KMTTG (I use iTiVo) to transfer their recordings to their computers and then edit them (VideoReDo TVSuite is the #1 editor for Windows-based computers...one day they promise to have it for Mac's) and burn them to DVD. Or I'm sure some folks just transfer them to their computers and then burn them to DVD.
> 
> Enjoy!


re: recordings that survived. I began this upgrade with an unmodified TiVo HD, 160 GB internal drive only, so ALL of my recordings were made prior to connecting an external hard drive. Since I still have the original internal drive (now on a shelf), one day, when I'm re-arranging all of my AV equipment around a newer, wall-mounted LED (or something better still) TV, I may drop the old drive back in and suck the recordings I care about out of it.

re: recording to DVD. I realized after asking the question that I should have looked elseswhere in the forum for an answer as I was moving off the topic of upgrades. Having said that, thank you very much for providing the information above. I had forgotten that TiVo Desktop was available. I had not used it for some time since I had it on my work laptop which has been replaced once or twice since then. I'll have to research the other things you mentioned. It's rare, but I do occassionally like to save something to DVD. Less rare is to put something on my laptop to watch when I travel.

Thanks again!


----------



## richsadams

dale77095 said:


> re: recordings that survived. <snip>


Ah, got it. Curious that all of the recordings didn't survive then, but good plan to get them one day.

Enjoy!


----------



## dspaeth

Just like to thank everyone for all the information provided here and to the developers of WinMFS. Upgrading the internal drive worked really slick using a USB docking station.
Installing a WD10EVDS ITB has fixed my reboot problem, well so far so good.


----------



## whitepelican

richsadams said:


> Wow! Although the WD10EADS needs AAM settings lowered, they are less expensive than most of their counterparts. That's even better news! :up:


I don't know about the AAM part, as my WD10EADS is the quietest drive I've ever not heard, but wdidle3 has successfully fixed my soft boot problem on this drive. I'm using it in an HR10-250 currently, but it had the same soft boot issue that has been reported on the Series3. I performed the "wdidle3 /D" successfully (after much hassle). I think I'm now confident enough that I'm probably going to take and swap it out with the extremely noisy Seagate drive that I currently have in my Series3.

If anyone's looking for a boot CD that contains wdidle3, see here. It was necessary for me to go into my computer's BIOS and change the "SATA operation" to ATA instead of AHCI to get this to work properly on my PC.


----------



## richsadams

whitepelican said:


> I don't know about the AAM part, as my WD10EADS is the quietest drive I've ever not heard, <snip>


Agreed. The WD10EADS that I originally had in our TiVo HD (now a backup drive) was uber-quiet out of the box. I adjusted the AAM and it was slightly quieter, but it would have been perfectly fine w/o the adjustment for me. I suppose if it's in a bedroom tuning it might be helpful though.

Glad to hear everything else (at least after a time) is good. Thanks for the link! :up:


----------



## pig_man

For clarification, if I run wdidle3 on a disk that already has the TiVo software on it, will it 1) work OK and 2) not mess up the Tivo software?


----------



## drey

pig_man said:


> For clarification, if I run wdidle3 on a disk that already has the TiVo software on it, will it 1) work OK and 2) not mess up the Tivo software?


"wdidle3" doesn't do anything for your data. You can run it either on empy disk or on the disk that has TiVo software.

See steps in my previous post on what to do to run wdidle3.


----------



## drey

Rich / mods,

Should I make a separate thread about getting WD Green drives to work and make that thread "sticky" on top for a little? I expect there probably be a lot of questions and we wouldn't want to get all info lost among other topics.


----------



## bkdtv

drey said:


> Should I make a separate thread about getting WD Green drives to work and make that thread "sticky" on top for a little? I expect there probably be a lot of questions and we wouldn't want to get all info lost among other topics.


I would be happy to add it as a FAQ and/or subsection to the first post (with credit). Just tell me what you want it to say.


----------



## richsadams

drey said:


> Rich / mods,
> 
> Should I make a separate thread about getting WD Green drives to work and make that thread "sticky" on top for a little? I expect there probably be a lot of questions and we wouldn't want to get all info lost among other topics.


Encouraging folks to buy one of the "non-problematic drives" should still be the rule of the day IMHO. Reducing the chance for errors, additional work and more questions would be best I think. But for the more adventurous (and those seeking help with a drive they already have) I agree that it's important enough to have some sort of spotlight.

My vote would be to find a place in the first post somewhere...although care should be taken not to confuse or frighten folks since it's not quite as simple as using winMFS. Perhaps the drives with known issues and the update/solution could have their own section? I'll leave that up to bkdtv since he's done a stellar job to date.


----------



## lew

It looks like the issue is with WD Green drives that are shipped with specific intellipark settings. I don't think it's reasonable to include (or exclude) any specific models. Tomorrow a different factory might release a batch of any model drives with a setting that isn't compatible with tivo.

I don't think any WD green drive should appear in the list of suggested drives without a warning regarding the possibility of needing to change the intellipark settings.


----------



## drey

lew said:


> It looks like the issue is with WD Green drives that are shipped with specific intellipark settings. I don't think it's reasonable to include (or exclude) any specific models. Tomorrow a different factory might release a batch of any model drives with a setting that isn't compatible with tivo.
> 
> I don't think any WD green drive should appear in the list of suggested drives without a warning regarding the possibility of needing to change the intellipark settings.


That's a valid concern, although keep in mind that TiVo uses WD Green drives themselves in all of their units.

From what I've seen most WD AV and AV-GP drives have proper timing for Intellipark from the factory and I wouldn't exclude them just yet. However, recent desktop drives, mostly the ones with 2 platters, have different timings and as such, need to be adjusted.

Using wdidle /D switch disables Intellipark entirely. A while back I also tried changing timings to a number of milliseconds and that worked too, although it was different for each drive.

Out of all the drives I used for TiVo upgrades I prefer WD to others since they're quit, very cool running and have an excellent reliability record. So I'd definitely recommend WD Green drives with a note that "additional steps" might be needed to get them to work.


----------



## jlib

whitepelican said:


> ...If anyone's looking for a boot CD that contains wdidle3, see here. It was necessary for me to go into my computer's BIOS and change the "SATA operation" to ATA instead of AHCI to get this to work properly on my PC.


Thanks. Yes, very good point about not using any advanced hard drive modes on the PC that the primitive boot CD won't recognize. Sometimes it may also be listed a compatible mode. And if you _are_ using AHCI for your Windows drive make sure to set it back when finished or Windows won't boot.


----------



## richsadams

It's interesting that three people with brand new HDXL's have reported the soft reboot issue the past few days on this thread now:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7657560#post7657560

How many more do you imagine are having the same experience that never show up here?

Since HDXL's use the WD10EVVS hard drive I'm wondering if the (HDXL) TiVo's now shipping have the newer "problematic" drives and TiVo is just getting a taste of what's to come?

At least Drey figured out a fix for them...perhaps he should send them a consulting fee.


----------



## kasjes

Hi Everyone
I am having trouble with my Tivo HD TCD648250 with the origional HD unopened and a Fantom Drives GreenDrive 1TB External eSATA in an eagle Consus case with a hard switch.
All purchased on ebay in 12/08 new. It has been functioning perfectly until last night. We have an older house and a screw-in type fuse blew. When it was replaced the tivo showed the external storage not found screen. I unplugged the tivo waited 30 secs and plugged it in again. Still same results. Then I tried checking the esata wire in both , still solid and turned off the external and unplugged the tivo waited a bit and turned on the external waited and plugged in the tivo- Same results. 
I am at a loss here, the power has gone out before and when back on never a problem. What else can I try here? I really don't want to loose all recordings by clearing the tivo back to just the internal drive but I can't bear to see my Beautiful TiVo sit idlely by with the storage not found staring me in the face. I already miss my HD TiVo badly and am willing to try any suggestions you have. Help!! and of coarse Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

Just to follow up on my note above, at least two of the folks having soft reboot problems with their new HDXL's have reported that if they disconnect their broadband connection (Ethernet or TiVo Wifi Adapter) the menu restart works. So it may not be the same IntelliPark issue.

Has anyone that's experienced the soft reboot problem (w/new WD10EVVS) tried a meunu restart with their broadband disconnected? If it still hangs on the "Welcome" screen it's probably a different issue.


----------



## richsadams

kasjes said:


> Hi Everyone
> I am having trouble with my Tivo HD TCD648250 with the origional HD unopened and a Fantom Drives GreenDrive 1TB External eSATA in an eagle Consus case with a hard switch.
> All purchased on ebay in 12/08 new. It has been functioning perfectly until last night. We have an older house and a screw-in type fuse blew. When it was replaced the tivo showed the external storage not found screen. I unplugged the tivo waited 30 secs and plugged it in again. Still same results. Then I tried checking the esata wire in both , still solid and turned off the external and unplugged the tivo waited a bit and turned on the external waited and plugged in the tivo- Same results.
> I am at a loss here, the power has gone out before and when back on never a problem. What else can I try here? I really don't want to loose all recordings by clearing the tivo back to just the internal drive but I can't bear to see my Beautiful TiVo sit idlely by with the storage not found staring me in the face. I already miss my HD TiVo badly and am willing to try any suggestions you have. Help!! and of coarse Thanks!


Sorry to hear about your troubles with your external hard drive. The power loss and return may have corrupted some data on the external or internal hard drive or it could have killed the external hard drive completely.

The lesson here is that a UPS (like this one or something similar) is absolutely essential equipment when it comes to TiVo (and an external drive) IMHO. The cost of replacing damaged equipment is bad enough but losing cherished recordings can be even worse. Okay lesson over.

First thing I would do is unplug TiVo. Then turn off or unplug the external hard drive. Wait ten seconds and then plug the external hard drive back in and listen to it closely. Does it sound like it's spinning up? You should hear a "whir" and then some clicking. If not the unit is likely dead. It's possible that something in the enclosure (circuit board, chip, etc.) was damaged and the hard drive is still good so you could try placing it in another enclosure. Otherwise there's not much that can be done except to divorce it.

If the external drive sounds like it's spinning up okay I'd plug TiVo back in and run a couple of TiVo's built-in diagnostic and programs called Kickstarts . Here's the link w/instructions:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

KS57 or KS58 may be able to resolve what might be corrupted data. KS54 is a simple diagnostic that will tell you if there are problems with one or the other drives but not much else.

Hope that helps a bit and let us know how it goes.


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## kasjes

Rich
Thanks for the help. I just read through your suggestions and I will try them this evening. I do have a question about the kickstart's that you directed me to. All of them start with going to TiVo central, my TiVo is stuck on the missing external drive screen. Is there a trick to getting it to TiVo central or clearing the missing screen?
Thanks again for the help
Eddie


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## pig_man

drey said:


> "wdidle3" doesn't do anything for your data. You can run it either on empy disk or on the disk that has TiVo software.
> 
> See steps in my previous post on what to do to run wdidle3.


Thank you for the info. An interesting thing happened when I used wdidle3 on my WD10EADS drive. When I used the "/D" option to disable the setting, it reported back that the new setting was 6300 milliseconds. I fiddled with it for awhile, but it wouldn't disable it. I finally just used the "/S255" option and set it to 25.5 seconds. I put the drive back in my TiVo HD and it worked! No more soft reboot problem. Yay!


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## richsadams

kasjes said:


> Rich
> Thanks for the help. I just read through your suggestions and I will try them this evening. I do have a question about the kickstart's that you directed me to. All of them start with going to TiVo central, my TiVo is stuck on the missing external drive screen. Is there a trick to getting it to TiVo central or clearing the missing screen?
> Thanks again for the help
> Eddie


Going to TiVo Central would be a "menu restart". Since you can't do that go ahead and follow the other directions about just pulling TiVo's power (leave the external drive plugged in), waiting about ten seconds for the hard drive to spin down and then plugging it back it. Everything happens during the startup process anyway so you should be good to go.


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## richsadams

pig_man said:


> I put the drive back in my TiVo HD and it worked! No more soft reboot problem. Yay!


Odd about its refusal to disable it, but sweet that things are working properly now. Congrats! :up:


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## kasjes

Rich
I tried the steps you offered and they didn't work so I restarted the external and listened. The light came on in the case but no noise like beeps or whirring. Does this mean the drive is dead or could it still be a case problem? To order the same case would cost 37 dollars and if the drive is bad I think I am just going to upgrade the internal to a 1TB.
Also I wanted to let you know that I had both the TiVo and the external plugged into a UPS very simular to the one on your link. The TiVo was in a plug with back-up battery and the external was just protected without back-up batter in the same UPS. Could this have done something to the external? 
Is there a way to make sure which is actually shot? It could save on replacement cost to find out .
In case you haven't noticed I am grasping at any straw to keep from clearing the external from the TiVo and permanently loosing my saved programs. But if it's broke.... it's broke. Thanks


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## drhankz

It would be great if *bkdtv* could update the FAQ section to add 
the *drey* procedure using wdidle3.exe to disable IntelliPark. :up:


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## richsadams

drhankz said:


> It would be great if *bkdtv* could update the FAQ section to add
> the *drey* procedure using wdidle3.exe to disable IntelliPark. :up:


bkdtv's offered to do that. Just trying to figure out where and how it would fit. Ideas?


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## drhankz

richsadams said:


> bkdtv's offered to do that. Just trying to figure out where and how it would fit. Ideas?


My FIT idea would be either under a Soft Reboot section 
or under the Suggested Drive Section where the certain 
model drive needs this kind of adjustment - so-to-speak


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## drey

I just need to write-up step by step instructions. Today is Saturday and I'll try to do that.


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## richsadams

drey said:


> I just need to write-up step by step instructions. Today is Saturday and I'll try to do that.


It's the TiVo Medal of Honor for you my friend. :up:


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## richsadams

kasjes said:


> Rich
> I tried the steps you offered and they didn't work so I restarted the external and listened. The light came on in the case but no noise like beeps or whirring. Does this mean the drive is dead or could it still be a case problem? To order the same case would cost 37 dollars and if the drive is bad I think I am just going to upgrade the internal to a 1TB.
> Also I wanted to let you know that I had both the TiVo and the external plugged into a UPS very simular to the one on your link. The TiVo was in a plug with back-up battery and the external was just protected without back-up batter in the same UPS. Could this have done something to the external?
> Is there a way to make sure which is actually shot? It could save on replacement cost to find out .
> In case you haven't noticed I am grasping at any straw to keep from clearing the external from the TiVo and permanently loosing my saved programs. But if it's broke.... it's broke. Thanks


Ah, it sounds like you've found the cause of your woes. Having TiVo on a UPS is excellent, however TiVo and it's eSATA drive can never be parted (unless by your hand). If the eSATA went down while TiVo was still on and then it came back up data corruption likely occurred. Both TiVo and the external drive have to be on the UPS. However it still could be a hardware issue.

If the recordings are important I'd go ahead buy another enclosure and try it. I know it's not ethical but if it doesn't work you could probably return the enclosure.

Otherwise you'd need to pull the hard drive out of the eSATA enclosure, connect it to a PC and run a diagnostic on it like WD's Lifeguard. But you can only run a high-level "quick test" without damaging the data. That may or may not tell you if the hard drive is bad.

Some folks here have had success with a disk repair tool called SpinRite. (However it costs about as much as a new hard drive.):

http://www.grc.com/sr/spinrite.htm

Planning on upgrading your internal drive at some point is the way to go. All the info you need is on the first post. Put the original TiVo hard drive on the shelf for backup and you're good to go.

Best of luck and keep us posted!


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## drhankz

drey said:


> I just need to write-up step by step instructions. Today is Saturday and I'll try to do that.





richsadams said:


> It's the TiVo Medal of Honor for you my friend. :up:


I AGREE with Rich :up:







:up:


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## bowlingblogger

richsadams said:


> It's the TiVo Medal of Honor for you my friend. :up:


Yeah!!! I almost wish I had kept my EVVS just so I could try it. Thanks a lot--you guys are turning me into a hard drive nerd


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## drey

*FAQ, Troubleshooting:*

Certain newer WD Green drives ship with the updated Intellipark feature that is causing TiVo units where this drive is installed to either hang at reboot ("soft-reboot" issue on TiVo HD or Series 3) or not boot at all (Series 2 single and dual tuner). The solution to this issue is to disable IntelliPark feature so drives do not park their heads during the reboot.

1. Download a copy of bootable CD with wdidle3.exe from the link below. Use WinRAR to uncompress "dos_wdidle3.rar" and burn ISO image to any CD-R disk. 
Download link: http://tiny.cc/o7Lvr

2. Connect the affected WD drive to any available SATA connector on your motherboard. Ensure that in BIOS hard drives are set to EIDE Compatible mode and not AHCI or RAID. This is needed so bootable DOS CD can detect the drive.

3. Boot from the above CD and change drive letter to R: (it can be other letter, depending on your PC configuration) and run "wdidle3 /D" to disable IntelliPark. The message should indicate that idle feature has been disabled.

4. Turn off PC, remove the drive, load TiVo image and test. You should no longer have "soft-reboot" problem.

-


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## dlfl

Nice work drey! :up::up::up:

Question: Can this be done using a USB-SATA adapter if your PC doesn't have an internal SATA port.


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## drhankz

dlfl said:


> Nice work drey! :up::up::up:
> 
> Question: Can this be done using a USB-SATA adapter if your PC doesn't have an internal SATA port.


GOOD QUESTION

I can't confirm that - but it THEORY it should.

Maybe *DREY* can confirm it


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## drey

drhankz said:


> GOOD QUESTION
> 
> I can't confirm that - but it THEORY it should.
> 
> Maybe *DREY* can confirm it


No, unfortunately it won't work with USB-SATA adapter by default since MS-DOS doesn't have USB drivers preinstalled and as such, won't detect the drive.

Technically, you can make a custom boot disk that will contain drivers for USB and than it will work. I'll see if I can update boot disk later to include USB drivers on it.

Or, alternatively, if you need a drive with no soft-boot issue and with TiVo software already preinstalled, send me PM.


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## MPSAN

bowlingblogger said:


> Yeah!!! I almost wish I had kept my EVVS just so I could try it. Thanks a lot--you guys are turning me into a hard drive nerd


Don't even think about becoming one of those!!! Some things are just not to be joked about! 
I'm just sa'in!


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## MPSAN

drey said:


> *FAQ, Troubleshooting:*
> 
> Certain newer WD Green drives ship with the updated Intellipark feature that is causing TiVo units where this drive is installed to either hang at reboot ("soft-reboot" issue on TiVo HD or Series 3) or not boot at all (Series 2 single and dual tuner). The solution to this issue is to disable IntelliPark feature so drives do not park their heads during the reboot.
> 
> 1. Download a copy of bootable CD with wdidle3.exe from the link below. Burn image to any CD-R disk
> http://tiny.cc/o7Lvr
> 
> 2. Connect the affected WD drive to any available SATA connector on your motherboard. Ensure that in BIOS hard drives are set to EIDE Compatible mode and not AHCI or RAID. This is needed so bootable DOS CD can detect the drive.
> 
> 3. Boot from the above CD and change drive letter to R: (it can be other letter, depending on your PC configuration) and run "wdidle3 /D" to disable IntelliPark. The message should indicate that idle feature has been disabled.
> 
> 4. Turn off PC, remove the drive, load TiVo image and test. You should no longer have "soft-reboot" problem.
> 
> -


Only 1 note about STEP 1 in the above. The download link is great but some may want/need to know the file is a RAR file and may need to know how to unRAR the file.


----------



## drey

MPSAN said:


> Only 1 note about STEP 1 in the above. The download link is great but some may want/need to know the file is a RAR file and may need to know how to unRAR the file.


updated


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## MPSAN

drey said:


> updated


Glad to help.


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## bkdtv

Thanks drey, I'll add that to the first when I get home tonight.

_Edit: Not added yet, will get to it today._


----------



## drhankz

drey said:


> No, unfortunately it won't work with USB-SATA adapter by default since MS-DOS doesn't have USB drivers preinstalled and as such, won't detect the drive.


Yes - True - True - True - I forgot how archaic :down: DOS is.

On the other side of the coin - i'm surprised it has a SATA diver.


----------



## gdpeck

sasmps said:


> Update... it helps if you connect the cable to the hard drive...


Some things never change. I just did the same thing 

I used a newer Hitachi Deskstar 1TB drive (HDS721010CLA332). This was for a Tivo Series 3. I decided to share a couple of snags I ran into during the process.

First Hitachi has removed AAM functionality from FTools version 2.13 and 2.15. Once I downloaded FTools 2.11 (do a google search), I was able to determine that this model ships with AAM set to 128.

I only had SATA cables for two drives, and wanted to keep the few programs that were left after I disconnected a faulty 500GB My DVR Expander (out of warranty since 02/09). Because of this, I decided to use the linux boot CD instead of WinMFS. I did use WinMFS to take a backup first. I used the MSLive ICG to generate the proper command, and the disk to disk copy worked great.

I then installed the new drive and went through Tivo startup. It showed 144 hours of HD capacity. I guess the IGC doesn't show you how to do MFSSuperSize at Linux. So I pulled the drive from the Tivo, placed it back in the computer with the Windows drive still there and used WinMFS to turn on SuperSize. I then reassembled the Tivo, and plugged it in again, but it stuck on the powering up screen. I did a quick forum search, thought maybe I had forgotten to plug in the disk, and decided to open the Tivo again. After plugging in the drive, Tivo power up works correctly and system info shows 157 hours of HD available.

So far for me, the whole process was pretty painless, other than the fact that I feel like I should have gotten more life out of the My DVR Expander, and it sucked to lose all of those shows. I may try a different enclosure for the eSata drive, at some point in the future.

Thanks to Spike for the great tools and info at mfslive.org, and thanks to everybody who has posted their experiences here!


----------



## eaayoung

gdpeck said:


> So far for me, the whole process was pretty painless, other than the fact that I feel like I should have gotten more life out of the My DVR Expander, and it sucked to lose all of those shows. I may try a different enclosure for the eSata drive, at some point in the future.


Same here. I was one of the lucky ones since mine lasted around 18 months.


----------



## richsadams

gdpeck said:


> ...First Hitachi has removed AAM functionality from FTools version 2.13 and 2.15. Once I downloaded FTools 2.11 (do a google search), I was able to determine that this model ships with AAM set to 128.


Congrats on your "new" TiVo! Section IV, #31 of the FAQ refers to using v2.11 of the Hitachi Feature Tool to adjust the AAM (includes a link). Otherwise, good observations for those that follow. :up: If you do move your old WD My DVR Expander to a new enclosure I (and probably a number of others here) would be curious to know if it works. TIA.

Enjoy!


----------



## dlfl

A purchaser of a new HD XL is reporting it hangs on soft reboot**here**.
I wonder if some "bad" WD drives got into factory units?


----------



## bkdtv

dlfl said:


> A purchaser of a new HD XL is reporting it hangs on soft reboot**here**.
> I wonder if some "bad" WD drives got into factory units?


I've sent two or three of these XL users a PM asking for the build date on the back of their DVR (I'm curious whether it is after September 19), but none have replied.


----------



## richsadams

dlfl said:


> A purchaser of a new HD XL is reporting it hangs on soft reboot**here**.
> I wonder if some "bad" WD drives got into factory units?


There are three others (or is it four now) that I noted here a few days ago on another thread (the one bkdtv referred to). I also thought it might be related to the IntelliPark issue that Drey discovered a cure for. But it looks more and more like a network connection issue than a hard drive problem. Odd that they're running into a similar if not identical soft boot scenario though. In their case TiVo will boot up okay from a menu restart without a broadband connection. But when they connect their TiVo WiFi Adapter or Ethernet their HDXL's hang on the "Welcome" screen. You have to wonder how many others are experiencing the same thing but never find their way here. One OP noted that the TiVo CSR he spoke with said that they were aware of a "hard drive problem" with the HDXL's though. Hmmm.


----------



## ADG

Just a comment about this thread. The HD on my series 3 was failing and yesterday I followed the instructions in the original post in this thread to replace it (Western Digital WD5000AVVS - hope it doesn't have Intellipark - didn't read the advisory above until just now). The process could not have been more straightforward. The only thing I would have done differently is "permanently" delete all items in "recently deleted" before removing the old drive. I followed the procedure for retaining settings and programs, and because I was not smart enough to do that the copy process took about 6 hours. Other than that it couldn't have gone more smoothly. Thanks for the great post bkdtv (and everyone else who contributed to this thread)


----------



## richsadams

ADG said:


> The only thing I would have done differently is "permanently" delete all items in "recently deleted" before removing the old drive.


Congratulations on your "new" bigger and better TiVo!

I agree, adding a note about permanently deleting all recordings in the Recently Deleted folder (unless someone wants to save them) prior to upgrading would be a good addition to the instructions on the first post (Section V, #19b). It would certainly save some copy time. Perhaps bkdtv can add that.

Enjoy!


----------



## dlfl

I know more than one member here asked WD what might have changed on 19 Sep. and AFAIK got nothing useful. (Sorry if I missed a post here.) Why would that be?


----------



## richsadams

dlfl said:


> I know more than one member here asked WD what might have changed on 19 Sep. and AFAIK got nothing useful. (Sorry if I missed a post here.) Why would that be?


Yes, I and a few others corresponded by e-mail with WD about this. We all received fairly generic responses...nothing at all specific ("From time-to-time manufacturing processes are improved..." yadda, yadda) and then nothing when we asked for more info. 

It's also interesting that we all received responses from "Raul" (or some "Raul" variation). So it's also interesting that all of their support folks are named "Raul".


----------



## dlfl

Reminds me of the fictitious director name (can't remember what it was) they used to put on Movies that were so bad no one wanted to claim directing them.


----------



## Fofer

Alan Smithee


----------



## richsadams

Fofer said:


> Alan Smithee


Ding, ding, ding! Obscure reference prize winner of the week! :up:  1st Place = The complete collection of 70 (give or take) Alan Smithee movies on Beta tape! Nothing says the holidays like "_Bloodsucking Pharaohs in Pittsburgh_"! Grandma will love it!


----------



## dlfl

Wasn't that the name of their hockey team back in the day?


----------



## richsadams

dlfl said:


> Wasn't that the name of their hockey team back in the day?


Ha! BIG HA! ROFLMAO


----------



## moyekj

richsadams said:


> Congratulations on your "new" bigger and better TiVo!
> 
> I agree, adding a note about permanently deleting all recordings in the Recently Deleted folder (unless someone wants to save them) prior to upgrading would be a good addition to the instructions on the first post (Section V, #19b). It would certainly save some copy time. Perhaps bkdtv can add that.
> 
> Enjoy!


 +3. I recently did a truncated backup (installing a new internal drive to replace a failing one) and forgot to clear out Recently Deleted folder before hand which left a bunch of pointers to nowhere. I was a little fearful that then removing those from RD folder after the upgrade may actually destroy pointers to real recordings following the backup, but that didn't happen.

NOTE: I didn't really have option to do non-truncated backup as I was using a laptop with 1 external e-sata drive, but I used TTG to move all recordings off the TiVo before upgrading it.


----------



## CraigK

moyekj said:


> +3. I recently did a truncated backup (installing a new internal drive to replace a failing one) and forgot to clear out Recently Deleted folder before hand which left a bunch of pointers to nowhere. I was a little fearful that then removing those from RD folder after the upgrade may actually destroy pointers to real recordings following the backup, but that didn't happen.


After doing the Preserves Settings Only upgrade deleting the phantom programs listed in the Now Playing list and Recently Deleted folder was the first thing I did after booting up my TiVo HDs on their new hard drives. The fact that they exist should probably be mentioned in the FAQ. I think I saw a reference to them in a post here in this thread originally so I wasn't surprised by them and knew it was okay to delete them

Okay, I lied. The first thing I really did was to check that I really had 157 of HD recording space.


----------



## richsadams

CraigK said:


> Okay, I lied. The first thing I really did was to check that I really had 157 of HD recording space.


Ha! I _knew_ it!


----------



## cjv2

Well folks,

I have read and reread and reread and I am out of ideas. Short version, got an WD10EADS for my TivoHD, in keeping with the post at the top of the FAQ that says it should work with the TivoHD despite its issues with the Series3, and because the more explicitly recommended drives were not available at the local shops.

Restored a truncated backup using WinMFS from the original 160GB drive onto the new one. I get "Welcome Powering up..." and I live there forever.

I have tried restoring without doing the MFSAdd at the end of the restore, just to effectively do a straight dup minus recordings. No help.

Original HD still works great.

Any ideas? Is this the Intellipark issue or is this something else? I have spent the better part of the night fighting with this... thing.


----------



## bkdtv

cjv2 said:


> I have read and reread and reread and I am out of ideas. Short version, got an WD10EADS for my TivoHD, in keeping with the post at the top of the FAQ that says it should work with the TivoHD despite its issues with the Series3, and because the more explicitly recommended drives were not available at the local shops.


You're right that the following statement appeared in the FAQ:



> The WD10EACS, WD10EADS, and retail WD "Green" drives are not listed, because
> most revisions of those drives will not work as internal upgrades on the
> TiVo Series3. They will work on the newer TivoHD model. For 1TB upgrades,
> Series3 owners should stick to the WD10EVDS, ST31000322CS, ST31000533CS,
> and ST31000424CS.


I thought I removed that earlier, but apparently not. It's gone now.

The current version of the WD10EADS is not compatible. The current version of that drive will not work as an internal drive upgrade without the "soft reboot" issue. This is believed to be Intellipark related, although I have no means to confirm that.

I would suggest you either return the drive or follow the instructions on the previous page to disable Intellipark.


----------



## dlfl

Is your anti-virus turned off while running WinMFS ? Definitely can be a problem if it isn't.

The new drive could be bad. Did you run WD's extended diagnostics on it, or can you? Can take a couple of hours or more, but then you know for sure.

This drive started having soft-reboot problems for manufacture dates starting 19 Sep 09 but not hard reboot problems. There is a fix for the soft reboot problem given a few posts back in this thread.


----------



## cjv2

bkdtv said:


> You're right that the following statement appeared in the FAQ....
> 
> ...I thought I removed that earlier, but apparently not. It's gone now.
> 
> The current version of the WD10EADS is not compatible. The current version of that drive will not work as an internal drive upgrade without the "soft reboot" issue; this appears to be Intellipark related.
> 
> I would suggest you either return the drive or follow the instructions on the previous pageto disable Intellipark.


Heh. Glad to be of service in helping get the FAQ updated. 

Unfortunately, I am one of those poor schmucks who has no SATA hardware apart from the Tivo and a single USB --> SATA adapter, which is not recognized when booting from the CD in question, and consequently unrecognizable by the WD utility.

If someone has a way other than the WD DOS-based utility... or a bootable CD image with the WD utility that will recognize the USB-attached HD... I would be most grateful. Otherwise, yeah, I'm probably looking at returning the drive, as you said.



dlfl said:


> Is your anti-virus turned off while running WinMFS ? Definitely can be a problem if it isn't.
> 
> The new drive could be bad. Did you run WD's extended diagnostics on it, or can you? Can take a couple of hours or more, but then you know for sure.


Yeah, AV is shut down. Haven't pounded the drive with diags yet, but I can certainly do that. Good idea.

If it's of any interest, manufacture date on the drive is 10 OCT 2009, Model is WD10EADS-65M2B0, firmware rev is 01.00A01.


----------



## richsadams

cjv2 said:


> If someone has a way other than the WD DOS-based utility... or a bootable CD image with the WD utility that will recognize the USB-attached HD... I would be most grateful. Otherwise, yeah, I'm probably looking at returning the drive, as you said.


Welcome to the forum but sorry to hear of your dilemma. If you can't run the recommended program to disable Intellisync I think your only option is to return the drive and get another one as bkdtv and dlfl have recommended.

It's interesting that this is another report of a WD10EADS refusing to boot up at all...not just displaying the soft reboot problem. (The WD10EVVS will boot up but has the soft reboot issue.)

If it's not too much trouble, can you post the manufacture date of your WD10EADS before you return it?

As mentioned the WD10EVDS is a good option. Other options are listed on the first post.

Best of luck and let us know how things go.


----------



## cjv2

richsadams said:


> If it's not too much trouble, can you post the manufacture date of your WD10EADS before you return it?


Rich,

See above, edited the post to include this detail. And thanks for the feedback.


----------



## MPSAN

cjv2 said:


> Rich,
> 
> See above, edited the post to include this detail. And thanks for the feedback.


I believe that the Windows version of the WD software WILL run with the SATA===>USB converter. Are you running XP?

Just killing time here as my new THD is on its 8th hour of updates and guide data!


----------



## cjv2

MPSAN said:


> I believe that the Windows version of the WD software WILL run with the SATA===>USB converter. Are you running XP?


Yep, running XP. There's a Windows version that can be used to disable Intellipark? Where? Do tell!!!


----------



## dlfl

cjv2 said:


> Yep, running XP. There's a Windows version that can be used to disable Intellipark? Where? Do tell!!!


I think he meant the windows version of the WD Diagnostics and I can confirm it will run with a USB-SATA adapter, although 2 or 3 times slower than a SATA port. The extended test took almost 10 hrs on my PC for 1 TB.

I'm not aware of a Windows version of the software that fixes the soft-reboot problem.


----------



## cjv2

dlfl said:


> I think he meant the windows version of the WD Diagnostics and I can confirm it will run with a USB-SATA adapter, although 2 or 3 times slower than a SATA port. The extended test took almost 10 hrs on my PC for 1 TB.
> 
> I'm not aware of a Windows version of the software that fixes the soft-reboot problem.


Got it. Baseline diags were fine. Extended diags are chugging away. Tune in tomorrow, I guess...


----------



## MPSAN

cjv2 said:


> Yep, running XP. There's a Windows version that can be used to disable Intellipark? Where? Do tell!!!


I did mean the WD diags and not wdidle3.


----------



## richsadams

cjv2 said:


> Rich,
> 
> See above, edited the post to include this detail. And thanks for the feedback.


Much appreciated! :up:


----------



## lns4667

cjv2 said:


> Heh. Glad to be of service in helping get the FAQ updated.
> 
> If it's of any interest, manufacture date on the drive is 10 OCT 2009, Model is WD10EADS-65M2B0, firmware rev is 01.00A01.


Just thought I would give my .02 worth on the wd10eads. After reading this thread a few times through I decided I could live with the soft reboot problem on this drive, given the fact I could get it for $60. I also did some research on this model while waiting on the drive in the mail. Here is what I found.

WD10eads-00m2b0 (2-platters) firmware rev 1.00a01
WD10eads-00l5b1 (3-platters) firmware rev 1.01a01

When my hdd arrived it was the (3-platter) version mentioned above with a manufacture date of 10/19/09 Thailand. So I followed the procedure to replace my internal drive and everything booted normal on initial setup showing 157 hd hours of recording space. Now time for soft reboot. With fingers crossed I waited and ta-da no hang-up. I did have wdidle.exe ready in case I needed it but the WD10eads-00l5b1 worked perfect right out of the box.


----------



## cjv2

lns4667 said:


> Just thought I would give my .02 worth on the wd10eads. After reading this thread a few times through I decided I could live with the soft reboot problem on this drive, given the fact I could get it for $60. I also did some research on this model while waiting on the drive in the mail. Here is what I found.
> 
> WD10eads-00m2b0 (2-platters) firmware rev 1.00a01
> WD10eads-00l5b1 (3-platters) firmware rev 1.01a01
> 
> When my hdd arrived it was the (3-platter) version mentioned above with a manufacture date of 10/19/09 Thailand. So I followed the procedure to replace my internal drive and everything booted normal on initial setup showing 157 hd hours of recording space. Now time for soft reboot. With fingers crossed I waited and ta-da no hang-up. I did have wdidle.exe ready in case I needed it but the WD10eads-00l5b1 worked perfect right out of the box.


Interesting. This post at MFSLive.org suggests that the firmware rev in my HD (and the first HD in your list of 2) may be at issue. I wonder if you lucked out by getting the second one


----------



## ADG

I've noticed a small, odd change since replacing the HD the other day. I have two s3's in the same cabinet. The one with the new hd is on a shelf directly above the other, and now the time display is noticeably dimmer than it was before (and thus not as bright as the s3 below it). I've checked the setting to make sure it is on "bright". I'm certain the time on both units displayed at the same level of brightness prior to the hd change. It's not a big deal, it's just odd.


----------



## brooster

I attached the external fantom 1TB drive about a month ago. It was working fine until I pulled out the Tivo to attach an optical cord. I then noticed on the front of the series 3 "External drive missing". When I moved the Tivo the plug for the external drive came loose. I was recording at the time. I have tried to unplug the Tivo, push the external drive plug back into the Tivo and plug the Tivo back in about a dozen times. I keep getting the "External drive missing" screen.
??


----------



## cjv2

Well, 12 hours into extended diags things were fine, but based on all the reading I'm pretty much out of options here, so the WD10EADS-65M2B0 is going back to the store and I'm going to order up a WD10EVDS from Amazon. I think it's official at this point that in its current incarnation, this drive doesn't like the TivoHD.

Anybody want further technical details about this soon-to-be-returned HD before I take it back?


----------



## richsadams

brooster said:


> I attached the external fantom 1TB drive about a month ago. It was working fine until I pulled out the Tivo to attach an optical cord. I then noticed on the front of the series 3 "External drive missing". When I moved the Tivo the plug for the external drive came loose. I was recording at the time. I have tried to unplug the Tivo, push the external drive plug back into the Tivo and plug the Tivo back in about a dozen times. I keep getting the "External drive missing" screen.
> ??


Ouch! Sorry to hear about that. Try following these steps:

1. Power off TiVo by disconnecting the AC power cord.￼
2. Turn off the eSATA drive.
3. Disconnect the AC adapter cord and eSATA cable from the eSATA drive.
4. Disconnect the eSATA cable from TiVo.
5. Reverse the eSATA cable connections between TiVo and the eSATA drive.
6. Re-connect one end of the eSATA cable to the eSATA drive and the other end to TiVo.￼
7. Connect the AC power cord to the eSATA drive and the other end to the electrical outlet.
8. Turn the eSATA drive back on.￼
9. Wait 10 to 15 seconds for the eSATA drive to fully spin up.￼
10. Power on TiVo by reattaching the AC power cord.

It's a little more complicated than the initial steps to get things going and a couple of steps are precautionary but by following those steps in that exact order others have had success getting their eSATA drive and TiVo talking to each other once again.

If that doesn't resolve it there may have been data corruption since it was recording when it became disconnected. If that's the case there's not much you can do except to divorce the drive:

1. Power off TiVo by disconnecting the AC power cord.￼
2. Turn off the eSATA drive.
3. Disconnect the AC adapter cord and eSATA cable from the eSATA drive.
4. Disconnect the eSATA cable from TiVo.
5. Power on TiVo by reattaching the AC power cord.
6. Follow the on-screen instructions to permanently divorce the eSATA drive.

Once you've divorced it you should be able to reconnect it following steps 6 through 10 in the first set of instructions. TiVo will automatically reformat the drive for use again. Unfortunately all of the recordings made since the eSATA drive was connected will probably be lost.

Hope that helps and best of luck!


----------



## richsadams

lns4667 said:


> Just thought I would give my .02 worth on the wd10eads. After reading this thread a few times through I decided I could live with the soft reboot problem on this drive, given the fact I could get it for $60. I also did some research on this model while waiting on the drive in the mail. Here is what I found.
> 
> WD10eads-00m2b0 (2-platters) firmware rev 1.00a01
> WD10eads-00l5b1 (3-platters) firmware rev 1.01a01
> 
> When my hdd arrived it was the (3-platter) version mentioned above with a manufacture date of 10/19/09 Thailand. So I followed the procedure to replace my internal drive and everything booted normal on initial setup showing 157 hd hours of recording space. Now time for soft reboot. With fingers crossed I waited and ta-da no hang-up. I did have wdidle.exe ready in case I needed it but the WD10eads-00l5b1 worked perfect right out of the box.


That's great info and pretty much in line with what we've seen so far. The 3 platter versions continue to work but the 2 platter models are problematic (and obviously the firmware would be different on each). It's a crap shoot as to which one you'll get when you order it though, so it's still best to avoid them.


----------



## richsadams

ADG said:


> I've noticed a small, odd change since replacing the HD the other day. I have two s3's in the same cabinet. The one with the new hd is on a shelf directly above the other, and now the time display is noticeably dimmer than it was before (and thus not as bright as the s3 below it). I've checked the setting to make sure it is on "bright". I'm certain the time on both units displayed at the same level of brightness prior to the hd change. It's not a big deal, it's just odd.


That is odd. Coincidental? Although a larger drive can draw more power it isn't like plugging in an electric razor in a small town and dimming the lights on Main Street. I guess I'd have to swap out the original and 1TB drives in our Series3 to see if the same thing happens. But I think I'll save that for another day...perhaps when the lawn needs mowing next summer.  Maybe someone else has had the same experience?


----------



## brooster

richsadams said:


> Ouch! Sorry to hear about that. Try following these steps:
> 
> 1. Power off TiVo by disconnecting the AC power cord.￼
> 2. Turn off the eSATA drive.
> 3. Disconnect the AC adapter cord and eSATA cable from the eSATA drive.
> 4. Disconnect the eSATA cable from TiVo.
> 5. Reverse the eSATA cable connections between TiVo and the eSATA drive.
> 6. Re-connect one end of the eSATA cable to the eSATA drive and the other end to TiVo.￼
> 7. Connect the AC power cord to the eSATA drive and the other end to the electrical outlet.
> 8. Turn the eSATA drive back on.￼
> 9. Wait 10 to 15 seconds for the eSATA drive to fully spin up.￼
> 10. Power on TiVo by reattaching the AC power cord.
> 
> It's a little more complicated than the initial steps to get things going and a couple of steps are precautionary but by following those steps in that exact order others have had success getting their eSATA drive and TiVo talking to each other once again.
> 
> If that doesn't resolve it there may have been data corruption since it was recording when it became disconnected. If that's the case there's not much you can do except to divorce the drive:
> 
> 1. Power off TiVo by disconnecting the AC power cord.￼
> 2. Turn off the eSATA drive.
> 3. Disconnect the AC adapter cord and eSATA cable from the eSATA drive.
> 4. Disconnect the eSATA cable from TiVo.
> 5. Power on TiVo by reattaching the AC power cord.
> 6. Follow the on-screen instructions to permanently divorce the eSATA drive.
> 
> Once you've divorced it you should be able to reconnect it following steps 6 through 10 in the first set of instructions. TiVo will automatically reformat the drive for use again. Unfortunately all of the recordings made since the eSATA drive was connected will probably be lost.
> 
> Hope that helps and best of luck!


It Worked!! I only had to do the first part.
Thanks Rich,

bruce


----------



## ADG

richsadams said:


> That is odd. Coincidental? Although a larger drive can draw more power it isn't like plugging in an electric razor in a small town and dimming the lights on Main Street. I guess I'd have to swap out the original and 1TB drives in our Series3 to see if the same thing happens. But I think I'll save that for another day...perhaps when the lawn needs mowing next summer.  Maybe someone else has had the same experience?


Yeah, well - as I said, not a big deal. And yes, I suppose it could just be a coincidence -though I'm not a big believer in coincidence.


----------



## richsadams

brooster said:


> It Worked!! I only had to do the first part.
> Thanks Rich,bruce


Excellent. Enjoy!


----------



## snowser

I just got a WD10EADS-00m2b0 working in external setup on a TivoHD. Tried it many different ways. I'm not sure if the setup order did it but it powers up clean every time with 180 hours of HD capacity. First disabled Intellipark on external drive. Deleted external drive format in winfms. Attached external drive to Tivo and powered up. Tivo powered up clean but external storage drive came up as unsupported. Hooked up drives to computer and selected drives in winmfs. Selected mfsadd. Installed original drive and hooked up and powered external drive. Powered up Tivo. So far so good.


----------



## richsadams

snowser said:


> I just got a WD10EADS-00m2b0 working in external setup on a TivoHD. Tried it many different ways. I'm not sure if the setup order did it but it powers up clean every time with 180 hours of HD capacity. First disabled Intellipark on external drive. Deleted external drive format in winfms. Attached external drive to Tivo and powered up. Tivo powered up clean but external storage drive came up as unsupported. Hooked up drives to computer and selected drives in winmfs. Selected mfsadd. Installed original drive and hooked up and powered external drive. Powered up Tivo. So far so good.


Welcome to the forum and thanks for the info. :up: AFAIK to date no one has reported any issues with using almost any hard drive externally. It's only when certain hard drives are used internally that problems arise.

Curious...since you had to marry your internal drive to your new external drive, why didn't you simply upgrade your internal hard drive instead? Did you really need that extra 20 or so hours? But whatever the case, congratulations and enjoy!


----------



## snowser

I'm pretty new to this and I didn't want to mess around with the internal drive till I got a feel for doing upgades with winmfs on a external drive. I couldn't get the new external drive working at first. Power up would hang. In retrospect it wouldn't have been any harder upgrading the internal drive. I probably will upgrade the internal drive in the future. Your posts about having the original drive on the shelf as a spare or troubleshooting tool is a good idea.


----------



## cjv2

snowser said:


> I'm pretty new to this and I didn't want to mess around with the internal drive till I got a feel for doing upgades with winmfs on a external drive. I couldn't get the new external drive working at first. Power up would hang. In retrospect it wouldn't have been any harder upgrading the internal drive. I probably will upgrade the internal drive in the future. Your posts about having the original drive on the shelf as a spare or troubleshooting tool is a good idea.


With that particular WD model, your experience upgrading the internal probably would have wound up like mine... heh.


----------



## Spenner

I burned the image to CD, and when I boot from the CD there's not wdidle3.exe on it. I get the messages:

CD-ROM Device Driver for IDE (Four Channels Supported)
Driver Version : V340
Device Name : BANANA
No drives found, aborting installation

Device driver not found: 'BANANA'
No valid CDROM device drives selected.


A dir listing on A: shows a bunch of DOS files. Changing to all the other drives B: through Z: get an invalid drive message.


----------



## dwgsp

lns4667 said:


> WD10eads-00m2b0 (2-platters) firmware rev 1.00a01
> WD10eads-00l5b1 (3-platters) firmware rev 1.01a01


Interesting. Today I received yet another version of this drive, purchased from Amazon:

WD10eads-00p8b0

It was made in Malaysia, manufactured 01 Nov 2009.

I was planning to use it to replace the internal drive in my TivoHD (I ordered it when the FAQ still listed this model as being compatible with the TivoHD). What do you think - should I even bother hooking it up and trying it, or just return it to Amazon for a different model?


----------



## MPSAN

Spenner said:


> I burned the image to CD, and when I boot from the CD there's not wdidle3.exe on it. I get the messages:
> 
> CD-ROM Device Driver for IDE (Four Channels Supported)
> Driver Version : V340
> Device Name : BANANA
> No drives found, aborting installation
> 
> Device driver not found: 'BANANA'
> No valid CDROM device drives selected.
> 
> A dir listing on A: shows a bunch of DOS files. Changing to all the other drives B: through Z: get an invalid drive message.


Well, you must have extracted the iso from the rar OK to get that far, but perhaps the burn was bad. When I boot my cd I get about a half a page of dos type info. I never get this..*.No drives found, aborting installation
*

It goes to drive A: and a dir does show a bunch of dos files, but no wdidle3.exe..

However, if I switch to drive R I do see wdidle3.exe. Perhaps it did not create the virtual drives. I got drive R and S.


----------



## drey

Spenner said:


> I burned the image to CD, and when I boot from the CD there's not wdidle3.exe on it. I get the messages:
> 
> CD-ROM Device Driver for IDE (Four Channels Supported)
> Driver Version : V340
> Device Name : BANANA
> No drives found, aborting installation
> 
> Device driver not found: 'BANANA'
> No valid CDROM device drives selected.
> 
> A dir listing on A: shows a bunch of DOS files. Changing to all the other drives B: through Z: get an invalid drive message.


I set up that boot CD to set the CD/DVD-ROM drive letter to R:. If you have more than one drive, it would be R:, S:, T:. etc...

If your drive is EIDE or SATA, it will work. If it is USB, it won't. Also, make sure you didn't disconnect it somehow while connecting the drive.


----------



## Spenner

My PC has only one CD/DVD drive (SATA), the one that the boot CD is in. So what's the "banana" about? The PC boots successfully boots from the CD I burned, then what?


----------



## drey

Spenner said:


> My PC has only one CD/DVD drive (SATA), the one that the boot CD is in. So what's the "banana" about? The PC boots successfully boots from the CD I burned, then what?


BANANA is the most common driver for CD/DVD drives. Although it is possible that some CD/DVD drives are not compatible (Sony, for example). Do you know the brand/make of your DVD drive?


----------



## lns4667

dwgsp said:


> Interesting. Today I received yet another version of this drive, purchased from Amazon:
> 
> WD10eads-00p8b0
> 
> It was made in Malaysia, manufactured 01 Nov 2009.
> 
> I was planning to use it to replace the internal drive in my TivoHD (I ordered it when the FAQ still listed this model as being compatible with the TivoHD). What do you think - should I even bother hooking it up and trying it, or just return it to Amazon for a different model?


That is where I purchased mine, I guess you never know what you are going to get. As far as returning it thats really a choice whether or not you want to try to disable the intellipark feature with wdidle3.exe A few have reported success but its not written in stone (yet).


----------



## cjv2

dwgsp said:


> Interesting. Today I received yet another version of this drive, purchased from Amazon:
> 
> WD10eads-00p8b0
> 
> It was made in Malaysia, manufactured 01 Nov 2009.
> 
> I was planning to use it to replace the internal drive in my TivoHD (I ordered it when the FAQ still listed this model as being compatible with the TivoHD). What do you think - should I even bother hooking it up and trying it, or just return it to Amazon for a different model?


I don't recognize the "p8" in that model number. I dunno, if you're adventurous, disable Intellipark on it and give it a whirl. I doubt your experience will wind up worse than mine; all that happened to me was the Tivo wouldn't boot, I banged my head on it for hours trying to make it work, talked with these guys a bit, then took it back


----------



## MPSAN

Spenner said:


> My PC has only one CD/DVD drive (SATA), the one that the boot CD is in. So what's the "banana" about? The PC boots successfully boots from the CD I burned, then what?


When it does boot, do you get an A: prompt? If so does a DIR give a listing of lots of DOS files? That is what mine does and when I go to R: or S: I forgot which, I then do a DIR and get wdidle3.exe.


----------



## Spenner

MPSAN said:


> When it does boot, do you get an A: prompt? If so does a DIR give a listing of lots of DOS files? That is what mine does and when I go to R: or S: I forgot which, I then do a DIR and get wdidle3.exe.


Yes it boots to the A: prompt, where DIR lists a bunch of DOS files. But before the A: prompt is the message about No valid device driver: BANANA.

So I did some googling, and found that BANANA is a common CDROM driver, which is what this particular boot CD is using. But apparently it doesn't work on my computer, which is a 1-yr-old Dell.

However, I was able to download The Ultimate Boot CD to create a new bootable CD with wdidle3 (downloaded separately). Booted to the new CD, ran wdidle on my drive successfully. But it didn't fix my Tivo problem, so the drive must be bad.

Well, at least I have my TivoHD running on it's original 160GB drive, and after the new year I'll see about getting this WD warranteed.


----------



## MPSAN

Spenner said:


> Yes it boots to the A: prompt, where DIR lists a bunch of DOS files. But before the A: prompt is the message about No valid device driver: BANANA.
> 
> So I did some googling, and found that BANANA is a common CDROM driver, which is what this particular boot CD is using. But apparently it doesn't work on my computer, which is a 1-yr-old Dell.
> 
> However, I was able to download The Ultimate Boot CD to create a new bootable CD with wdidle3 (downloaded separately). Booted to the new CD, ran wdidle on my drive successfully. But it didn't fix my Tivo problem, so the drive must be bad.
> 
> Well, at least I have my TivoHD running on it's original 160GB drive, and after the new year I'll see about getting this WD warranteed.


Yes, I have also used UBCD at times. Sorry it did not work. Someone said the /D did not work for them but that /S255 did. I do not have that issue so have not needed to try it. I only downloaded the software just in case I buy another drive.


----------



## drey

WD just announced a new series of WD Green drives: WD10EARS, WD15EARS and WD20EARS. They appear to be the same as WDxEADS, although with much larger cache of 64MB and possible performance boost of 7.5%.

http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=763

From what I'm hearing from my sources, the Intellipark "feature" has been modified in them to eliminate the head parking problem.

I'm going to order a few drives from my supplier as soon as they become available and try them.


----------



## richsadams

drey said:


> WD just announced a new series of WD Green drives: WD10EARS, WD15EARS and WD20EARS. They appear to be the same as WDxEADS, although with much larger cache of 64MB and possible performance boost of 7.5%.
> 
> http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=763
> 
> From what I'm hearing from my sources, the Intellipark "feature" has been modified in them to eliminate the head parking problem.
> 
> I'm going to order a few drives from my supplier as soon as they become available and try them.


Ha..."Ears", I love it. TiVo can't take advantage of the added cache, but let's hope these ones turn out to be quiet, cool and boot-problem free! Oh, and inexpensive.  TIA for checking them out. :up:


----------



## ThAbtO

As they say, "I'm all EARS, TEE-vo!"


----------



## jeffw_00

ok - I was about to order this

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1255842388&sr=8-1

but are you guys saying there could be a problem? What -should- I order?

(and if there is a problem - someone should edit page 1)
THANKS!
/j

[oh wait, maybe never mind? Are the problems confined to the EADS?


----------



## watts

OK so I have the WD10EVDS 1TB. I am having the problem of getting stuck on the powering up screen. I tried the boot CD with wdidle3 but get the screen with no valid device banana screen. What do I have to do to get the wdidle3 to run?

I thought that buying the EVDS model I would not have any problems. Is there hope for getting this drive to work internally on the tivo? If not what models are good and available now?


----------



## jeffw_00

have you run conventional diags on the drive?


----------



## watts

yes they all came back fine. Has anyone else had problems with this model. It does have a sticker saying GreenPower on it.


----------



## bkdtv

watts said:


> yes they all came back fine. Has anyone else had problems with this model. It does have a sticker saying GreenPower on it.


Did you do a truncated backup or a full backup described in the first post?? Do you disable your antivirus/security software prior to doing the upgrade?

What's the build date on your WD10EVDS? If there is a problem with that drive, it is new. Your post is the first I've seen that suggests a problem with the WD10EVDS.


----------



## innocentfreak

I know the person who posts the twitter feed for Tivoblog was also having issues with a new EVDS drive. I told them to post here, but I think they only posted over at MFSlive. They did say they got an error though during the process.


----------



## watts

I did not disable my antivirus. I am working on turning that off now. I did do a trucated backup to my harddrive, but I used the original drive for the upgrade. Steps 13-22 for a new internal drive and an external drive. I was using the orig drive so after doing mfsadd I shut down the computer and did not do the boot from CD to run the code for mfs add.

the build date is Oct 7th and 16th 2009. I have 4 of the drives, I was hoping to upgrade my other 2 HD tivo's this weekend.


----------



## bkdtv

watts said:


> I did not disable my antivirus. I am working on turning that off now. I did do a trucated backup to my harddrive, but I used the original drive for the upgrade. Steps 13-22 for a new internal drive and an external drive. I was using the orig drive so after doing mfsadd I shut down the computer and did not do the boot from CD to run the code for mfs add.


I suggest you take the external drive out of the equation and follow these instructions (FAQ #19A).

Some antivirus/security software can't be completely disabled, so you may want to try the backup and restore in Windows safe mode, if you're familiar with that.


----------



## watts

I completely uninstalled my anti virus on that computer. It had expired anyway. Will get new one before using internet. I will try the single drive instuctions tonight when I get home. Since I have 4 drives of this type to test with, hopefully I can figure out the problem. I will let you know how it goes.


----------



## watts

ok I could not resist trying it out before work. Going to be late. Using the instructions to backup from truncated copy and having anti virus off made for a good combination. tivo is working. Now off to work. I can figure out the second drive later today. Thanks for the sugestion, not sure which change was the winner, but much happier now.


----------



## bkdtv

watts said:


> ok I could not resist trying it out before work. Going to be late. Using the instructions to backup from truncated copy and having anti virus off made for a good combination. tivo is working. Now off to work. I can figure out the second drive later today. Thanks for the sugestion, not sure which change was the winner, but much happier now.


Good to hear that resolved the problem.



jeffw_00 said:


> [oh wait, maybe never mind? Are the problems confined to the EADS?


The problem affects a number of Western Digital "Green" drives, including the EADS. The WD10EVDS is not affected, so that is the drive to buy right now.


----------



## yukit

Anyone successfully upgrade an HD XL with a 2TB internal green drive recently?

I am planning to upgrade my XL to 2TB in the next 2 weeks. I am a bit concerned with the IntelliPark issue (soft boot hang) reported here with the recent stock 1TB green drives. I hope the 2TB green drives do not have the same issue.

I suppose I can use a black drive or Seagate. Anyone try Hitachi or Samsung 2TB drives for the upgrade?


----------



## drey

yukit said:


> Anyone successfully upgrade an HD XL with a 2TB internal green drive recently?
> 
> I am planning to upgrade my XL to 2TB in the next 2 weeks. I am a bit concerned with the IntelliPark issue (soft boot hang) reported here with the recent stock 1TB green drives. I hope the 2TB green drives do not have the same issue.
> 
> I suppose I can use a black drive or Seagate. Anyone try Hitachi or Samsung 2TB drives for the upgrade?


I've done 2TB quite successfully on XL, although WD Green drives will have the IntelliPark issue.

Contact me via PM if you want 2TB without "soft-reboot" issue which is guaranteed to work in XL.


----------



## lrhorer

richsadams said:


> Ha..."Ears", I love it. TiVo can't take advantage of the added cache, but let's hope these ones turn out to be quiet, cool and boot-problem free! Oh, and inexpensive.  TIA for checking them out. :up:


Oh, then I guess you hadn't heard? The WDxxEARS drives can only handle audio. If you want to use similar drives in a DVR, you'll need to wait for the upcoming WDxxEYES drives.


----------



## raianoat

I haven't been very successful with upgrading the drive in my S3 TiVo to a 1TB WD (WD10EVDS). I posted over at the MFSLive forum (http://mfslive.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1407) however, I thought I'd post here since there seems to be more people on TiVoCommunity.

Originally I tried to setup my new drive using the live cd method (MFSLive). After performing the backup/restore my S3 would not boot. Just tonight I went ahead and performed a backup using WinMFS. Unfortunately I don't have a Windows box so I ended up using VMWare fusion on my Mac. The backup seemed to have worked fine however, when I turn on my TiVo it is stuck on boot just like it was when I ran the live cd method. Here's a copy of my MFSInfo output from the new drive. Any help would be greatly appreciated...



> Mfsinfo (Drive 1)
> 
> Boot Page
> Boot Page: root=/dev/hda7
> Active Boot Partition: 6 Active Root Partition: 7
> Backup Boot Partition: 3 Backup Root Partition: 4
> 
> MFS Super Header
> state=0 magic=abbafeed
> devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13 /dev/hda14 /dev/hda15
> zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=1951665152
> 
> Zone Maps
> Z0:	type=0
> map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=589822
> next_map_start=263266 next_map_size=9 next_backup_map_start=589813
> zone_first=1122 zone_last=263265 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
> free=262144 checksum=57e3055a logstamp=1874756 num_bitmap=1
> Z1:	type=2
> map_start=263266 map_size=9 backup_map_start=589813
> next_map_start=263275 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589779
> zone_first=589824 zone_last=217329663 zone_size=216739840 min(chunk)=20480
> free=1925120 checksum=72820fe5 logstamp=1893926 num_bitmap=15
> Z2:	type=1
> map_start=263275 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589779
> next_map_start=217336832 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=217926655
> zone_first=263309 zone_last=589772 zone_size=326464 min(chunk)=8
> free=94160 checksum=6489e4fa logstamp=1894006 num_bitmap=17
> Z3:	type=0
> map_start=217336832 map_size=1 backup_map_start=217926655
> next_map_start=217598977 next_map_size=130 next_backup_map_start=217926525
> zone_first=217336833 zone_last=217598976 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
> free=262144 checksum=c303874 logstamp=1874756 num_bitmap=1
> Z4:	type=2
> map_start=217598977 map_size=130 backup_map_start=217926525
> next_map_start=217599107 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=217926491
> zone_first=217926656 zone_last=486544383 zone_size=268617728 min(chunk)=2048
> free=1804288 checksum=88910ebb logstamp=1893988 num_bitmap=19
> Z5:	type=1
> map_start=217599107 map_size=34 backup_map_start=217926491
> next_map_start=486544384 next_map_size=66 next_backup_map_start=486546366
> zone_first=217599141 zone_last=217926484 zone_size=327344 min(chunk)=8
> free=279104 checksum=44c5ffe4 logstamp=1893988 num_bitmap=17
> Z6:	type=2
> map_start=486544384 map_size=66 backup_map_start=486546366
> next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=2863311530
> zone_first=486546432 zone_last=1951665151 zone_size=1465118720 min(chunk)=20480
> free=1465118720 checksum=7f3efd12 logstamp=0 num_bitmap=18
> 
> Partition Maps
> #: type name length base ( size )
> 1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
> 2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
> 9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
> 12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)
> 14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
> 15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 698.6G)
> 
> Total SA SD Hours: 1040	Total DTV SD Hours: 908 75 % Free
> Software: 11.0d-01-2-648	Tivo Model: TCD648250B


----------



## raianoat

innocentfreak said:


> I know the person who posts the twitter feed for Tivoblog was also having issues with a new EVDS drive. I told them to post here, but I think they only posted over at MFSlive. They did say they got an error though during the process.


I'm pretty sure that my error had to do with a driver issue and my sata controller.


----------



## richsadams

lrhorer said:


> Oh, then I guess you hadn't heard? The WDxxEARS drives can only handle audio. If you want to use similar drives in a DVR, you'll need to wait for the upcoming WDxxEYES drives.


HA! Double HA! ROFLMAO!   Phew! I needed that. :up:


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> HA! Double HA! ROFLMAO!   Phew! I needed that. :up:


Actually this was an idea that WD created that would make you buy 2 drives. You need BOTH EAR and EYE to get audio/video. It is set up in kind of a new RAID array called Redundant Array of Incompatible Drives. It will, no doubt, require a Firmware upgrade. We may have to wait for the TiVo Series 4 to get the full effect. Any problems will require the help of an Eyes, Ears, Nose, and Throat specialist, and will NOT be covered by Medicare!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Actually this was an idea that WD created that would make you buy 2 drives. You need BOTH EAR and EYE to get audio/video. It is setup in kind of a new RAID array called Redundant Array of Incompatible Drives. It will, no doubt, require a Firmware upgrade. We may have to wait for the TiVo Series 4 to get the full effect. Any problems will require the help of an Eyes, Ears, Nose, and Throat specialist, and will NOT be covered by Medicare!


Ah, I see what you're saying and I hear what you mean.


----------



## VinceA

What the SOAK recommend for someone that has a nice 1TB WD drive that tests out hardware wise dandy (ran the full scan from the WD utilities) but needs a new TiVoHD image on it? I wiped the drive (wrote all zeroes to it using the WD utils) since it was stuck in a Kickstart 57 loop for over a day. 

Can't seem to use InstantCake since that seems to not work on PCs with all SATA drives (HD & CD).

Would love to get TiVoHD back to functional before the holiday hits full force. I've got a few hours today but not many after that...


----------



## watts

I have 2 HD TiVo's I am upgrading. 1 has no issues, the other I cannot get to work. It will not recognize the external drive. I suspect a bad hard drive and want to run WD diagnostics on both the WD10EVDS 1TB. My problem now is that I cannot get the WD data lifeguard diagnostics for windows (DLGDIAG for windows) to see the drives. I have a SATA to USB connection that did not work, so I open up the computer and directly plugged in the SATA connection (and power) on both drives. Neither one is recognized. Is this because they are setup with tivo software? What do I need to do to get the diagnostics to recognize the drives so I can run the software on them.


----------



## bkdtv

I assume you are pairing internal and external drives with WinMFS? It's possible one drive is simply DOA. Some percentage of all drives are DOA.

I'm not sure why DLDIAG does not see the drive. It should see both drives so long you've launched the app with administrative privileges (right-click, run as administrator).


----------



## raianoat

I can't seem to get my WD10EVDS drive to work. I posted my drive info over at MFSLive.org forum but I'd thought I'd post it here incase somebody can help me...

Date: 29 Nov 2009
Mdl: WD10EVDS-63U8B0
dcm: HARCNV2MHB
r/n: 701640
green board rev number: 2060-701640-001 REV A


----------



## bkdtv

raianoat said:


> I can't seem to get my WD10EVDS drive to work. I posted my drive info over at MFSLive.org forum but I'd thought I'd post it here incase somebody can help me...
> 
> Date: 29 Nov 2009
> Mdl: WD10EVDS-63U8B0
> dcm: HARCNV2MHB
> r/n: 701640
> green board rev number: 2060-701640-001 REV A


That's the newest revision I've seen. WD10EVDS drives produced through late October are known to work, but it's possible that Western Digital adjusted the Intellipark parameters at some point in November to make it incompatible.

Did you follow the upgrade instructions (FAQ #19A) in the first post for the truncated backup and restore, with all third-party antivirus and security software disabled?

_Edit: I see you don't have access to Windows and are using Mfslive. In that case, you might try a backup and restore without your recordings to see how that goes._


----------



## waiting485

raianoat said:


> I can't seem to get my WD10EVDS drive to work. I posted my drive info over at MFSLive.org forum but I'd thought I'd post it here incase somebody can help me...
> 
> Date: 29 Nov 2009
> Mdl: WD10EVDS-63U8B0
> dcm: HARCNV2MHB
> r/n: 701640
> green board rev number: 2060-701640-001 REV A


I bought the same drive from CDW few days ago, have not installed it yet in my Tivo HD, (don't have the SATA cables and they are hard to find in a retail store ). I will be installing the disk this saturday, will let you know how it goes.

Here is my product detail.
Date: 24 Nov 2009
MDL: WD10EVDS - 63U8B0
DCM: DARCNV2MAB
R/N: 701640
Green Board Rev Number : I could not locate this number.

will be using WinMfs on a windows XP machine.


----------



## raianoat

waiting485 said:


> I bought the same drive from CDW few days ago, have not installed it yet in my Tivo HD, (don't have the SATA cables and they are hard to find in a retail store ). I will be installing the disk this saturday, will let you know how it goes.
> 
> Here is my product detail.
> Date: 24 Nov 2009
> MDL: WD10EVDS - 63U8B0
> DCM: DARCNV2MAB
> R/N: 701640
> Green Board Rev Number : I could not locate this number.
> 
> will be using WinMfs on a windows XP machine.


The "Green Board Rev Number" is on the bottom of the drive. It's kind of hard to read...


----------



## raianoat

bkdtv said:


> That's the newest revision I've seen. WD10EVDS drives produced through late October are known to work, but it's possible that Western Digital adjusted the Intellipark parameters at some point in November to make it incompatible.
> 
> Did you follow the upgrade instructions (FAQ #19A) in the first post for the truncated backup and restore, with all third-party antivirus and security software disabled?
> 
> _Edit: I see you don't have access to Windows and are using Mfslive. In that case, you might try a backup and restore without your recordings to see how that goes._


I tried to perform the backup using both the LiveCD and WinMFS. For WinMFS I performed the steps in 19A. I used VMWare Fusion on my Mac (with a SATA --> USB adapter) so I'm not sure it that might have complicated things. For the LiveCD I executed the following command:

backup -qTao - /dev/sda | restore -s 128 -xzpi - /dev/sdb

As you can see from my MFSLive post, I encountered an error during this command so I'm not sure if it worked.


----------



## waiting485

raianoat said:


> The "Green Board Rev Number" is on the bottom of the drive. It's kind of hard to read...


Got it, I have the same number (2060-701640-001 REV A).


----------



## cjv2

I received my WD10EVDS today and am ready to start cooking.

Question for the masses though. Has anybody ever tried taking an image of their existing Tivo drive (with a utility like SelfImage), restoring the image onto the new drive, and then opening up the newly-available space using WinMFS or something of that order? Think it might work?


----------



## raianoat

cjv2 said:


> I received my WD10EVDS today and am ready to start cooking.


can you post drive information? Curious to see if you encounter any issues.


----------



## cjv2

raianoat said:


> can you post drive information? Curious to see if you encounter any issues.


Sure, here's what I've got.

Date: 16 Oct 2009
MDL: WD10EVDS - 63N581
DCM: DANNHT2MFB
R/N: 701590
Green Board Rev Number : 2060-701590-000 Rev A


----------



## bkdtv

cjv2 said:


> Sure, here's what I've got.
> 
> *Date: 16 Oct 2009*
> MDL: WD10EVDS - 63N581
> DCM: DANNHT2MFB
> R/N: 701590
> Green Board Rev Number : 2060-701590-000 Rev A


You should not have any problems with that drive.



waiting485 said:


> Here is my product detail.
> *Date: 24 Nov 2009*
> MDL: WD10EVDS - 63U8B0
> DCM: DARCNV2MAB
> R/N: 701640


I would like to hear how this goes.

If you have a problem as raianoat did with a November 29 drive, that will suggest WD10EVDS drives with a late November build date are no longer compatible.


----------



## dwgsp

I installed a new WD10EVDS in my TivoHD on Wednesday with no problems (purchased from Amazon over the weekend), but I am now kicking myself because I did not write down the any of the drive details before I installed it. Now it's buried in my home theater cabinet, so I can't easily check it. But as I recall it had a November mfg date.

If folks continue to have problems with this drive I will pull it out and have a look.

But the good news (for me) is that I followed the instructions posted on page 1 of this thread, and using WinMFS there were no surprises or problems. I should also mention that Amazon also had good prices for the required SATA cables and the Torx screwdrivers.


----------



## waiting485

dwgsp said:


> But as I recall it had a November mfg date.


Great 



dwgsp said:


> I should also mention that Amazon also had good prices for the required SATA cables and the Torx screwdrivers.


I agree, I have also ordered SATA cables from Amazon, getting it today afternoon, if I can find the time I will try to do the installation today.


----------



## richsadams

dwgsp said:


> I installed a new WD10EVDS in my TivoHD on Wednesday with no problems ...


Excellent to hear. :up: Is it the same drive you were talking about in this post or a different one? Were you able to successfully perform a menu restart? TIA.


----------



## dwgsp

richsadams said:


> Is it the same drive you were talking about in this post or a different one? Were you able to successfully perform a menu restart? TIA.


I decided not to take any chances, and returned the WD10EADS to Amazon.

The drive that I installed was a WD10EVDS. Menu restart works fine with this new drive.

/Don


----------



## waiting485

waiting485 said:


> Great
> 
> I agree, I have also ordered SATA cables from Amazon, getting it today afternoon, if I can find the time I will try to do the installation today.


Just installed the WD10EVDS drive without any issue, I copied all my old programs, NPL list looks fine, the Netflix, stream baby stream working ok, I also played couple of programs and they seems to played fine.


----------



## bkdtv

waiting485 said:


> Just installed the WD10EVDS drive without any issue, I copied all my old programs, NPL list looks fine, the Netflix, stream baby stream working ok, I also played couple of programs and they seems to played fine.


Are you able to successfully restart from Messages & Settings -> Restart or Reset the TiVo -> Reboot the TivoHD DVR?

If so, then it looks like there are no issues with WD10EVDS drives manufactured through November 24. It is possible that something changed between November 24 and November 29, but I think it's more likely that raianoat got a faulty drive or there is some problem with the backup/restore on his particular Mac setup.


----------



## richsadams

dwgsp said:


> I decided not to take any chances, and returned the WD10EADS to Amazon.
> 
> The drive that I installed was a WD10EVDS. Menu restart works fine with this new drive.
> 
> /Don


Thanks Don...got it...and a wise move on your part. Glad to hear that everything is as it should be. :up: Enjoy!


----------



## cjv2

Well since nobody answered my Q about a drive imaging approach... decided to try it anyway. Unfortunately, it took 21 hours to back up the old drive, and looks like it is going to take about same to dump the image on the new drive. Back with experiment results tomorrow...


----------



## 84lion

dwgsp said:


> I installed a new WD10EVDS in my TivoHD on Wednesday with no problems (purchased from Amazon over the weekend), but I am now kicking myself because I did not write down the any of the drive details before I installed it. Now it's buried in my home theater cabinet, so I can't easily check it. But as I recall it had a November mfg date.
> 
> But the good news (for me) is that I followed the instructions posted on page 1 of this thread, and using WinMFS there were no surprises or problems. I should also mention that Amazon also had good prices for the required SATA cables and the Torx screwdrivers.


I did the same thing, installed a WD10EVDS into our TivoHD just yesterday, and neglected to write down any details.  The drive was not from Amazon but from a third-party retailer bought thru Amazon. Knock wood, I have also had no issues and so far everything seems to be working fine. I have only laptops so I had to use SATA-USB adapters for the new drive and drive being replaced (750 GB Seagate, seemed to work fine but very noisy, came with the TivoHD purchased via Amazon reseller, WD10EVDS very nice and quiet), and the transfer from the old to new drive took almost exactly 24 hours!

Micro Center had a nice set of Torx and other screwdrivers, those worked great for me.


----------



## waiting485

bkdtv said:


> Are you able to successfully restart from Messages & Settings -> Restart or Reset the TiVo -> Reboot the TivoHD DVR?


Just tried the restart from Messages & Settings -> Restart or Reset the TiVo -> Reboot the TivoHD DVR? and it got stuck at welcome screen for about 10 mins, rebooted the TivoHD by removing power and it booted fine and is at the NPL now.

Do you think I have an issue here? I don't think I have ever restarted my TiVO through menu.


----------



## whitepelican

waiting485 said:


> Do you think I have an issue here? I don't think I have ever restarted my TiVO through menu.


Yes, that's the classic "soft reboot" issue discussed throughout this thread. You should probably either use a different drive or try the wdidle3.exe program that is discussed in the past few pages of this thread.


----------



## richsadams

waiting485 said:


> Just tried the restart from Messages & Settings -> Restart or Reset the TiVo -> Reboot the TivoHD DVR? and it got stuck at welcome screen for about 10 mins, rebooted the TivoHD by removing power and it booted fine and is at the NPL now.
> 
> Do you think I have an issue here? I don't think I have ever restarted my TiVO through menu.


I'd try the menu restart a couple of more times. It would be significant if your drive is hanging at the "Welcome" screen. TIA!


----------



## richsadams

whitepelican said:


> Yes, that's the classic "soft reboot" issue discussed throughout this thread. You should probably either use a different drive or try the wdidle3.exe program that is discussed in the past few pages of this thread.


Actually the soft reboot issue hasn't been a problem with the OP's WD10EVDS model drive to date. A singular hang at the "Welcome" screen isn't totally unusual. However if it is repeatable several more times it will be the first of these drives to exhibit the problem.


----------



## waiting485

richsadams said:


> I'd try the menu restart a couple of more times. It would be significant if your drive is hanging at the "Welcome" screen. TIA!


Tried menu restart couple of more times and each time it got stuck at welcome screen for more than 10 mins, thinking of running wdidle3.exe to disable intellipark.

How do I execute wdidle3.exe? do I just run it from R: or S: without specifying any drive letter? how I am going to know that it executed for TiVo Disk and not for my PC's actual disk?


----------



## waiting485

Ran the wdidle3 with /D on WD10EVDS to disable idle timer and now the softboot issue is gone.

Before running the /D option I ran wdidle3 with /R to see if idle3 timer is enabled and for how much time, here is the output I got.

Model WDC WD10EVDS-63U8B0
Idle3 Timer is enabled and set to 8000 milliseconds.

One question though, are there any other effects of disabling Idle3 timer??


----------



## cjv2

Experiment is progressing. Finally finished imaging the WD10EVDS in a 2-step process (original Tivo drive to image file, then image file to new drive) using SelfImage. About 21 hours for each step.

The result? Right now I'm watching a recording that carried over successfully.

No issues with soft restart.

So if you're stuck like me with just a laptop and a single USB -> SATA doodad, and you want to keep your recordings, there is hope for you. Don't bother using the compression on SelfImage though when creating a Tivo drive image... earned me a whole 2GB out of 160GB. Not worth it.

Now... off to open up the extra space on this drive with WinMFS and see what happens...

** epilogue: it went boom, see 3 posts below. **


----------



## richsadams

waiting485 said:


> Ran the wdidle3 with /D on WD10EVDS to disable idle timer and now the softboot issue is gone.
> 
> Before running the /D option I ran wdidle3 with /R to see if idle3 timer is enabled and for how much time, here is the output I got.
> 
> Model WDC WD10EVDS-63U8B0
> Idle3 Timer is enabled and set to 8000 milliseconds.
> 
> One question though, are there any other effects of disabling Idle3 timer??


Thanks very much for that and glad to hear things are acting normally. Can't speak to the Idle3 timer question, but AFAIK everyone else's drives are functioning normally. Thanks again and enjoy!


----------



## richsadams

It looks like the Intellipark issue has found its way into the WD10EVDS line of hard drives at least post Nov 24, 2009 manufacture date. Hopefully the upcoming EARS line won't display the same problem. *However for now it appears that it's best to avoid all Western Digital GP ("Green") drives going forward*. For those that do want to use them be prepared to disable the Intellipark "feature".


----------



## cjv2

Well, that was a bust...

Went to use WinMFS to do an MFSAdd and... clicked OK and... kablooie. Blew up WinMFS. WinMFS then wouldn't access the WD10EVDS drive at all; any attempt to do so crashed WinMFS.

Had to let Kickstart beat up the drive to get WinMFS to stop crashing, and even then, the drive was still useless ("Not a Tivo Drive") so went the truncated backup/restore route.

All is now well, upgraded, but lost all recordings. Ah well.


----------



## richsadams

cjv2 said:


> Well, that was a bust...
> 
> Went to use WinMFS to do an MFSAdd and... clicked OK and... kablooie. Blew up WinMFS. WinMFS then wouldn't access the WD10EVDS drive at all; any attempt to do so crashed WinMFS.
> 
> Had to let Kickstart beat up the drive to get WinMFS to stop crashing, and even then, the drive was still useless ("Not a Tivo Drive") so went the truncated backup/restore route.
> 
> All is now well, upgraded, but lost all recordings. Ah well.


Well, how frustrating is that after going to all of that trouble? Sorry to hear about the set back, but glad it's working. :up:


----------



## cjv2

richsadams said:


> Well, how frustrating is that after going to all of that trouble? Sorry to hear about the set back, but glad it's working. :up:


Well, it was kind of frustrating, but it was kind of fun in its own way. I narrowed the problem down to some kind of trashing of the zone map by the failed WinMFSAdd, but since I had no way to crack said zone map open to do manual repair, no dice.

What was most interesting about the exercise is that the partition table laid out by the image restore (before imploded WinMFSAdd) was markedly different than what I got from the backup->restore->WinMFSadd->WinMFSSuperSize activity. The restored partition sizes were the same, restored zone map lined up, but all the partition bases were different. Not sure what to make of that.


----------



## richsadams

cjv2 said:


> The restored partition sizes were the same, restored zone map lined up, but all the partition bases were different. Not sure what to make of that.


Hmmm...me either but I'm sure someone more wise will chime in. Enjoy!


----------



## LordGoofy

Just want to thank everyone, my install of the WD 1Tb drive in my TiVo HD went flawlessly yesterday thanks to the great information here. Thanks again.


----------



## richsadams

LordGoofy said:


> Just want to thank everyone, my install of the WD 1Tb drive in my TiVo HD went flawlessly yesterday thanks to the great information here. Thanks again.


:up: Welcome to the "club" and enjoy!


----------



## bkdtv

I removed the WD10EVDS from the drive listing (with a note) and added drey's instructions as FAQ #13 of the Internal Drive Upgrades section. You can link to it directly by appending #drey to the end of the url, i.e.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784#drey


----------



## whitepelican

Is it true that the WD Green drives don't work in a standalone Series 2 Tivo? I had a WD10EADS working just fine on my DirecTV HR10-250 (apart from the soft reboot issue) for several months. Once I disabled the Intellipark feature, that drive worked perfectly in the HR10-250. But in reading the initial post in this thread, Section V, #13, paragraph 1 states that:


bkdtv said:


> Newer Western Digital "Green" drives ship with an updated Intellipark feature that causes the TivoHD/Series3 to hang after any software reboot. That includes restarts initiated through the TiVo menus and restarts that follow software updates. These drives only boot in a TivoHD/Series3 after the power plug is pulled. *These drives will not boot at all on the Series2.*


The HR10-250 is a Series 2 DirecTivo, although it's a curious case since it is also HD capable. But I would assume that any drive that worked in that unit would work in other Series 2's. I'm just curious if there is some evidence that these drives don't boot at all in a standalone Series 2 Tivo, or if whoever reported this problem was just using the wrong PATA-SATA adapter.


----------



## drey

whitepelican said:


> Is it true that the WD Green drives don't work in a standalone Series 2 Tivo? I had a WD10EADS working just fine on my DirecTV HR10-250 (apart from the soft reboot issue) for several months. Once I disabled the Intellipark feature, that drive worked perfectly in the HR10-250. But in reading the initial post in this thread, Section V, #13, paragraph 1 states that:
> 
> The HR10-250 is a Series 2 DirecTivo, although it's a curious case since it is also HD capable. But I would assume that any drive that worked in that unit would work in other Series 2's. I'm just curious if there is some evidence that these drives don't boot at all in a standalone Series 2 Tivo, or if whoever reported this problem was just using the wrong PATA-SATA adapter.


Only *newer* WD Green drives that are affected by the "soft-boot" issue will not work in Series 2. Once you disable Intellipark, these drives will work fine.


----------



## doctord

I thought I would share my upgrade trials.
The subject is a TiVoHD for my bedroom that sits on a armoir a few feet away from the bed. The upgrade is to a 1TB drive.

*Try #1* was a Seagate ST31000528AS. It came with AAM disabled. I enabled it and set it to 128 with HDDScan. 
*Results:* Way too noisy for a bedroom. No clicks, but drive seeks made a deep thud or hum-like sound. I had to tune both channels to a channel I didn't receive to quiet it down at night. It might be ok for inside an enclosure or the living room.

*Try #2* was a Hitachi HDS721010KLA330. I set AAM to 128. 
*Results:* The seeks were quieter, but the drive spin was louder and caused a vibration. If the left front foot of the TiVo touched the armoir, it created a constant hum. Not as annoying as hearing the drive seeks, but not a good solution for the bedroom. I also noted that the drive was hotter to the touch when I opened the TiVo. Again, it might be ok for another situation, but the vibration was troubling.

*Try #3* is a Western Digital Green WD10EADS taken from a My Book Essential. It came with AAM set to 254 which I changed to 128. I used wdidle3 to disable the head parking. Note that HDDScan also has a setting to disable or adjust the idle timer, but I didn't try using it.
*Results:* Excellent. It is almost silent. I really only hear the fan on the TiVo at night. Soft reboot works fine. The drive is barely warm to the touch.

The bottom line is that I should have followed the recommendations of this forum and went with the WD drive from the start. I just thought I would share my findings for the other penny-pinchers out there that base their drive choice on price. Although, your results may differ, why take a chance.


----------



## cjv2

doctord said:


> *Try #3* is a Western Digital Green EADS taken from a My Book Essential. It came with AAM set to 254 which I changed to 128. I used wdidle3 to disable the head parking. Note that HDDScan also has a setting to disable or adjust the idle timer, but I didn't try using it.
> *Results:* Excellent. It is almost silent. I really only hear the fan on the TiVo at night. Soft reboot works fine. The drive is barely warm to the touch.


Would be interested in the details on that EADS drive. I tried disabling the idle with HDDScan on mine with no positive result before returning it. Also, my drive had AAM set to 128, if HDDScan is to be trusted as a "settings reading app" across a USB->SATA connection, and I had some doubts about that.


----------



## thomaslue

I have a TIVO Series 3 HD with the Antec MX-1 attached. I believe I am using on of the green DVR-rated drives that you all recommend in the FAQ. Since I have had relative success with this setup, my instinct tells me that I could duplicate this (the exact same enclosure and hard drive) to expand the capacity of my Apple Time Capsule, which currently serves as a Time Machine backup volume and as our family music server (Sonos).

Question: How is my logic? Doesn't it make sense to use a DVR-rated drive for this purpose, since it would get similar wear and tear?

Thanks,
Thomas


----------



## bkdtv

Should I modify the drive table as shown below to add the WD10EADS, WD10EVVS, and WD10EVDS with the note on Intellipark, or keep it as is without those drives?



Code:


[b][u]Make   [/u]  [u]Model    [/u]    [u]Size [/u]  [u]Part #         [/u]  [u]Intended for DVRs[/u]  [u]Noise (10=Best)[/u][/b]
[COLOR="Red"]Hitachi  Cinemastar   750GB  HCS721075KLA330        Yes                7[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]Hitachi  Cinemastar  1000GB  HCS721010KLA330        Yes                7[/COLOR]
Hitachi  Deskstar    1000GB  HD31000                No                 8*
Hitachi  Deskstar    1000GB  HDT721010SLA360        No                 8*
Hitachi  Deskstar    1000GB  HDS721010CLA332        No                 8*
[COLOR="Red"]Hitachi  Deskstar    1000GB  HDS721010KLA330        No                 7*[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]Seagate  DB35         500GB  ST3500830SCE           Yes                8[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]Seagate  DB35         750GB  ST3750640SCE           Yes                8[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]Seagate  DB35         750GB  ST3750840SCE           Yes                8[/COLOR]
Seagate  Pipeline     500GB  ST3500321CS            Yes                9
Seagate  Pipeline     500GB  ST3500312CS            Yes                9
Seagate  Pipeline    1000GB  ST31000533CS           Yes                7
Seagate  Pipeline    1000GB  ST31000322CS           Yes                7
Seagate  Pipeline    1000GB  ST31000424CS           Yes                7
WD       AV           500GB  WD5000AVJS             Yes                8
[COLOR="Blue"]WD       AV-GP       1000GB  WD10EADS               Yes               10[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Blue"]WD       AV-GP       1000GB  WD10EVVS               Yes               10[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Blue"]WD       AV-GP       1000GB  WD10EVDS               Yes               10[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]WD       AV-GP       1000GB  WD10EVCS               Yes               10[/COLOR]

Drives [COLOR="Red"]highlighted in red[/color] are discontinued.

Drives [COLOR="Blue"]highlighted in blue[/color] only work correctly if Intellipark is disabled,
as described in [url=http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784#drey]FAQ #13[/url] below.

For subjective noise rating, 10=best and 1=worst.  Noise ratings marked with *
assume that AAM is enabled and set to 128, as described in [url=http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784#AAM]this FAQ[/url].
Note there will always be some small variance from part to part.


----------



## whitepelican

cjv2 said:


> Would be interested in the details on that EADS drive. I tried disabling the idle with HDDScan on mine with no positive result before returning it. Also, my drive had AAM set to 128, if HDDScan is to be trusted as a "settings reading app" across a USB->SATA connection, and I had some doubts about that.


I ran my WD10EADS for months with the AAM apparently set to 254 and I couldn't hear the drive at all. I then changed the AAM to 128 while I had it hooked to the PC to run wdidle3.exe. I would say it sounds exactly the same now, which is completely silent. My conclusion is that it is an extremely quiet drive and I'm not sure if the AAM is actually even doing anything.


----------



## richsadams

bkdtv said:


> Should I modify the drive table as shown below to add the WD10EADS, WD10EVVS, and WD10EVDS with the note on Intellipark, or keep it as is without those drives?


My instinct would be to exclude all of the WD GP drives for now since there are alternatives. Although I don't think it's a huge chore to disable Intellipark, adding yet another set of instructions is bound to confuse some folks (who will wind up here asking more questions) and cause some disappointment for others that can barely get the basic upgrade right. My two cents.


----------



## cjv2

bkdtv said:


> Should I modify the drive table as shown below to add the WD10EADS, WD10EVVS, and WD10EVDS with the note on Intellipark, or keep it as is without those drives?


If you include the Intellipark bit, I would suggest inclusion of a note that you won't be able to disable it by way of USB -> SATA adapter, barring some pretty damn fancy footwork. And so far as I can tell, the (Windows-based) HDDScan software referenced by doctord and I is no help in doing so despite the fact that its interface would lead you to believe otherwise (I tried with the EADS I had).


----------



## yukit

Anyone tried to disable Intellipark with hdparm -B command?
I don't remember if hdparm on the mfs CD supported this option, but a recent linux LiveCD should. I used hdparm to set AAM option.

Maybe -B 254 or -B 255 would work. Can anyone confirm?


----------



## jlib

yukit said:


> Anyone tried to disable Intellipark with hdparm -B command?
> I don't remember if hdparm on the mfs CD supported this option, but a recent linux LiveCD should. I used hdparm to set AAM option.
> 
> Maybe -B 254 or -B 255 would work. Can anyone confirm?


If it did it would be volatile. So, the TiVo would have to execute it on each bootup.


----------



## jlib

bkdtv said:


> Should I modify the drive table as shown below to add the WD10EADS, WD10EVVS, and WD10EVDS with the note on Intellipark, or keep it as is without those drives?


There really aren't very many drives left on the list with the WD drives removed. Having them on there with the color coding I think is a good idea if only so that all the best deals can be considered since there really is nothing else wrong with them. But the way it is now with the explanation of why they are excluded is also fine since the users for whom disabling the Intellipark feature in the firmware would not be an issue will have all the information needed. Maybe simplest is best? Your call...


----------



## dswallow

Better to list the drive models and explain specific issues than to not list them and leave it to the imagination of the reader as to their compatibility.


----------



## lew

jlib said:


> There really aren't very many drives left on the list with the WD drives removed. Having them on there with the color coding I think is a good idea if only so that all the best deals can be considered since there really is nothing else wrong with them. But the way it is now with the explanation of why they are excluded is also fine since the users for whom disabling the Intellipark feature in the firmware would not be an issue will have all the information needed. Maybe simplest is best? Your call...


There are a number of Hitachi and Segate drives listed. Companies like Maxtor no longer exist.

The only solution seems to be using a DOS based utility which won't work with many of the USB-SATA adapters many upgraders use. I think the WD green drives should be dropped from the list, at least until WD releases a windows or linux utility.

Seagate and Hitatchi drives are available from internet vendors.


----------



## mrbeefhead

From this thread I have learned that _Intellipark_ affects soft-boots. Two questions:

1) Does anyone know if Intellipark could contribute to picture freezing? I have the EADS and am experiencing pretty frequent freezes.

2) When wdidle3 is used on a drive that has been servicing a TiVo HD, are all recordings lost?


----------



## Arcady

Hello all,

I upgraded my original Series3 more than 3 years ago with a 500GB drive. I'd like to upgrade to a 1.5TB drive, but the instructions state that I must start with the original 250GB drive. Is there any way for me to preserve my settings and move to the 1.5TB drive? (I don't need to keep the recordings.) I didn't see this specific issue mentioned in the FAQ. 

Thanks


----------



## whitepelican

mrbeefhead said:


> From this thread I have learned that _Intellipark_ affects soft-boots. Two questions:
> 
> 1) Does anyone know if Intellipark could contribute to picture freezing? I have the EADS and am experiencing pretty frequent freezes.
> 
> 2) When wdidle3 is used on a drive that has been servicing a TiVo HD, are all recordings lost?


#1 - don't know
#2 - Your recordings are not lost when you run wdidle3.


----------



## cjv2

Arcady said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I upgraded my original Series3 more than 3 years ago with a 500GB drive. I'd like to upgrade to a 1.5TB drive, but the instructions state that I must start with the original 250GB drive. Is there any way for me to preserve my settings and move to the 1.5TB drive? (I don't need to keep the recordings.) I didn't see this specific issue mentioned in the FAQ.
> 
> Thanks


I can't see why you have to go back to the original 250GB drive if you are using something like WinMFS to do the job. Data is data. Can someone confirm/deny?

As to the 1.5TB thing, there are some notes in the FAQ about max capacity you may want to read. I don't think you'll get the full 1.5TB.


----------



## raianoat

Can I disable the Intellipark feature on the drive that I've already restored to? Or, do I need to disable this feature and perform the restore again?


----------



## cjv2

raianoat said:


> Can I disable the Intellipark feature on the drive that I've already restored to? Or, do I need to disable this feature and perform the restore again?


I don't think there is any interaction between disabling Intellipark and the user-stored data on the drive. The Intellipark bit is firmware-controlled drive management, I believe. So yeah, you should be able to disable it without needing a restore.

Best practice is always to have a backup, of course (***standard IT disclaimer... heh***)


----------



## raianoat

cjv2 said:


> I don't think there is any interaction between disabling Intellipark and the user-accessible data stored on the drive. The Intellipark bit is firmware-controlled drive management, I believe. So yeah, you should be able to disable it without needing a restore.
> 
> Best practice is always to have a backup, of course (***standard IT disclaimer... heh***)


Thanks. I'll post back later tonight or early tomorrow with whether or not this fix works for me...


----------



## yukit

WD10EARS drives are now available on Newegg. Interestingly, the drive has a new formatting feature to set the physical sector to 4k. I would think you don't want that for a Tivo drive.

Who wants to be the first to use this drive for an upgrade


----------



## jlib

cjv2 said:


> Arcady said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I upgraded my original Series3 more than 3 years ago with a 500GB drive. I'd like to upgrade to a 1.5TB drive, but the instructions state that I must start with the original 250GB drive. Is there any way for me to preserve my settings and move to the 1.5TB drive? (I don't need to keep the recordings.) I didn't see this specific issue mentioned in the FAQ.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> I can't see why you have to go back to the original 250GB drive if you are using something like WinMFS to do the job. Data is data. Can someone confirm/deny?
> 
> As to the 1.5TB thing, there are some notes in the FAQ about max capacity you may want to read. I don't think you'll get the full 1.5TB.
Click to expand...

I can confirm that WinMFS will not work if you originally used MFS Live CD (MFS Tools) to do the original upgrade (you will have run out of partitions needed for the second upgrade). I do not have any experience with multiple upgrades with WinMFS, though. The other info is correct regarding limitations on actual usable size when using WinMFS on different models of TiVo. It is all in the FAQ first post as you mentioned.


----------



## cjv2

jlib said:


> I can confirm that WinMFS will not work if you originally used MFS Live to do the original upgrade (you will have run out of partitions needed for the second upgrade). I do not have any experience with multiple upgrades with WinMFS, though. The other info is correct regarding limitations on actual size when using WinMFS on different models of TiVo. It is all in the FAQ first post.


Oh duh, I didn't think about the partition count thing... Mucho thanks for the detail.

For what it's worth, when I used WinMFS to do my upgrade (I did not use MFSLive) I wound up with a 14th and 15th partition being added. So, with 2 partitions being added per expansion just like with MFSLive, that would imply that WinMFSAdd + WinMFSAdd = fail just as MFSAdd + WinMFSAdd = fail, as the high supported-partition count is apparently 16.

My bad.


----------



## fpage77

My old computer only has IDE ports built into it. I bought a SATA PCI adapter SIL3512 (says it also does raid) and put in my computer and hooked up my Western Digital AV-GP drive. I booted to disc the other guy posted but it isn't finding the drive. Any ideas??????????


----------



## raianoat

raianoat said:


> Thanks. I'll post back later tonight or early tomorrow with whether or not this fix works for me...


I ran wdidle3 against my drive and now everything is working! I really appreciate all the help I received on this thread (especially bkdtv for starting the FAQ). I'll be sure to blog about it in the near future.


----------



## cr33p

I just spent the past 4 hours fighting with my pc and this darn wdidle3 program, I FINALLY got it to boot and recognize my cdrom, it hated the SATA dvd burner drive. Anyways, I have a recertified WD10EAVS I was told this was a 1 tb drive out of a Phantom enclosure, I recieved it as a RMA from WD. Anyways the "/D" switch refuses to work, I was only able to reduce the timer down to 100 milliseconds, not sure if it is because of this particular drive or what. Also I read around and there is a v1.0 and a v1.3 of this wdidle3 program floating around, I dint have enough time to check out the newer version to see if it would remidy my problems .


----------



## fpage77

cr33p said:


> I just spent the past 4 hours fighting with my pc and this darn wdidle3 program, I FINALLY got it to boot and recognize my cdrom, it hated the SATA dvd burner drive. Anyways, I have a recertified WD10EAVS I was told this was a 1 tb drive out of a Phantom enclosure, I recieved it as a RMA from WD. Anyways the "/D" switch refuses to work, I was only able to reduce the timer down to 100 milliseconds, not sure if it is because of this particular drive or what. Also I read around and there is a v1.0 and a v1.3 of this wdidle3 program floating around, I dint have enough time to check out the newer version to see if it would remidy my problems .


I'm not sure but think the reason you had trouble is the drive doesn't have the Intelipark feature. I checked the spec sheet for the WD10EAVS and it doesn't mention that it has that feature. I don't know maybe it has a older version of that feature that doesn't work with /d command?!?!? I'm still struggling to get a old computer that didn't have SATA to recognize the drive in dos. I tried a SATA pci card which was a bust so next I'm going to try and SATA to IDE adapter.

http://www.wdc.com/en/library/sata/2879-701229.pdf?wdc_lang=en


----------



## cr33p

I too thought that maybe it was this drive, so I tossed in a new WD10EADS, and get the exact same results. Not sure why? I can get it to take changes in the /S switch but it just pretends to run the /d command and returns that it is set to 6300 milliseconds


----------



## waiting485

cr33p said:


> I just spent the past 4 hours fighting with my pc and this darn wdidle3 program, I FINALLY got it to boot and recognize my cdrom, it hated the SATA dvd burner drive. Anyways, I have a recertified WD10EAVS I was told this was a 1 tb drive out of a Phantom enclosure, I recieved it as a RMA from WD. Anyways the "/D" switch refuses to work, I was only able to reduce the timer down to 100 milliseconds, not sure if it is because of this particular drive or what. Also I read around and there is a v1.0 and a v1.3 of this wdidle3 program floating around, I dint have enough time to check out the newer version to see if it would remidy my problems .


When I ran wdidle3 on my wd10evds drive, it seems /d option is case sensitive , I was getting error when I ran with /d option, but when I tried with /D it disabled the intellipark.


----------



## cr33p

waiting485 said:


> When I ran wdidle3 on my wd10evds drive, it seems /d option is case sensitive , I was getting error when I ran with /d option, but when I tried with /D it disabled the intellipark.


Yeah I tried every which way, never recieved errors though. Just would take the command and then spit out its enabled and set to 6300 milliseconds? Who knows

Update: Set the EADS to 255 = 25500 milliseconds and soft reboot problem gone, I will just use the eavs for something else  Still not sure why the damn /D switch wont work


----------



## usurpah

I have a WD10EADS on the way to me now going into a TivoHD. I just ordered the drive this week from Amazon, so I'm assuming I'll be seeing a "newer" EADS with the Intellipark issue.

My question is a simple one, is this issue only on the S3 or on the TivoHD as well? Is the TivoHD affected by the Intellipark problem?

Great thread, everyone. Thanks for the info!


----------



## bkdtv

usurpah said:


> My question is a simple one, is this issue only on the S3 or on the TivoHD as well? Is the TivoHD affected by the Intellipark problem?


It affects both.


----------



## richsadams

raianoat said:


> I ran wdidle3 against my drive and now everything is working! I really appreciate all the help I received on this thread (especially bkdtv for starting the FAQ). I'll be sure to blog about it in the near future.


Glad to hear things are working now. Since your WD10EVDS was manufactured on November 29th and another manufactured on November 24th both displayed the Intellipark issue, (plus all of the newer HDXL reports) that pretty much confirms all of the WD GP line of drives have moved to that particular technology now.


----------



## jlib

fpage77 said:


> I'm not sure but think the reason you had trouble is the drive doesn't have the Intellipark feature. I checked the spec sheet for the WD10EAVS and it doesn't mention that it has that feature...


That is interesting. It only mentions the NoTouch head ramping technology which is the mechanical method IntelliPark uses at idle. Maybe they have stopped using the term IntelliPark (the parking meter company has been using that trademark longer). I can't find anything past this summer from WD that uses the term IntelliPark. The whole parking at idle thing was one of the prime elements of the GP series, though. They would't be able to make the same power use claims without it.


----------



## jlib

fpage77 said:


> My old computer only has IDE ports built into it. I bought a SATA PCI adapter SIL3512 (says it also does raid) and put in my computer and hooked up my Western Digital AV-GP drive. I booted to disc the other guy posted but it isn't finding the drive. Any ideas??????????


I would have thought there would be BIOS extensions built into the card. Did it come with any DOS drivers? Maybe try something like the Ultimate Boot CD and see if any of the DOS boots it includes sees the drive. If so, swap disks and run the WD utility.


----------



## Newbie

I put a WD10EVDS in my tivo3 HD 2 weeks ago. It seems to work.

There is a strange problem: when the tivo finished playing a recorded video and nobody is around to use it, it would eventually start playing live video. When this happens there is a lot of multi-color lines on the screen as though the video is partially corrupted.

Strangely, if I press "live TV" button, the problem goes away. Any ideas?


----------



## richsadams

Newbie said:


> There is a strange problem: when the tivo finished playing a recorded video and nobody is around to use it, it would eventually start playing live video. When this happens there is a lot of multi-color lines on the screen as though the video is partially corrupted.
> 
> Strangely, if I press "live TV" button, the problem goes away. Any ideas?


Congratulations on the upgrade! What you're experiencing is not normal. I'm assuming it didn't do that before the upgrade? Do you have an external hard drive connected? Does it do this no matter which tuner it's on or is it just on one tuner? HD or SD or both?

I'd try power cycling TiVo (unplug it, wait 10 seconds or so for the hard drive to spin down and then plug it back in). If it continues I'd slip the original drive back in for a short period to see if the same thing occurs. If so it might have something to do with your cable cards, or a TiVo tuner. If not I'd RMA your new drive.

Hope that helps and keep us posted!


----------



## fpage77

If anyone out there doesn't have SATA on their motherboard like me I found a solution to get the drive SATA drive recognized easy. I bought a SATA to IDE adapter which plugs into the IDE slot on motherboard and then you connect the SATA drive too. The drive is seen by the computers BIOS and is addressable from DOS as a IDE drive. I'm not tearing my TiVo apart till end of week to turn of Intelipark but it was a challenge in just getting the old SATA TiVo drive working in DOS as test. I tried a SATA PCI card first and the card itself saw the drive and would work in Windows with drivers installed but in DOS drive was not found.


----------



## MPSAN

fpage77 said:


> If anyone out there doesn't have SATA on their motherboard like me I found a solution to get the drive SATA drive recognized easy. I bought a SATA to IDE adapter which plugs into the IDE slot on motherboard and then you connect the SATA drive too. The drive is seen by the computers BIOS and is addressable from DOS as a IDE drive. I'm not tearing my TiVo apart till end of week to turn of Intelipark but it was a challenge in just getting the old SATA TiVo drive working in DOS as test. I tried a SATA PCI card first and the card itself saw the drive and would work in Windows with drivers installed but in DOS drive was not found.


One other option, that I have not tried, is to connect the SATA Drive to the PC's MoBo SATA Port and configure the MoBo BIOS to configure the SATA as IDE...I know I have that option in the BIOS and when done it is easy to set it back again.


----------



## Arcady

cjv2 said:


> Oh duh, I didn't think about the partition count thing... Mucho thanks for the detail.
> 
> For what it's worth, when I used WinMFS to do my upgrade (I did not use MFSLive) I wound up with a 14th and 15th partition being added. So, with 2 partitions being added per expansion just like with MFSLive, that would imply that WinMFSAdd + WinMFSAdd = fail just as MFSAdd + WinMFSAdd = fail, as the high supported-partition count is apparently 16.
> 
> My bad.


So basically, I can't upgrade my drive at all? There's no way to recompress it back to original size, then re-expand to the larger drive? I used to do this with my DirecTiVo boxes.


----------



## kokoko

yukit said:


> WD10EARS drives are now available on Newegg. Interestingly, the drive has a new formatting feature to set the physical sector to 4k. I would think you don't want that for a Tivo drive.
> 
> Who wants to be the first to use this drive for an upgrade


I'll bite; I need to replace the stock drive in an S3.

Please explain your last sentence; why wouldn't I want to use a 4K disk as a TiVo drive?


----------



## jlib

kokoko said:


> I'll bite; I need to replace the stock drive in an S3.
> 
> Please explain your last sentence; why wouldn't I want to use a 4K disk as a TiVo drive?


Hey, that's what guinea pigs are for 

I, too, would be interested in knowing more about this. When the ATA8-ACS standards were first being talked about, the thought was that even though the physical sector would be 4K (for efficiency), it would need to be able to present itself logically as the standard 512 (for compatibility). So, if the option on the drive is to switch whether it logically appears as 4k or not, then you definitely want that turned off for legacy hardware such as the TiVo.

Edit: See Annex C and D in the referenced document for the relevent discussion.


----------



## usurpah

usurpah said:


> I have a WD10EADS on the way to me now going into a TivoHD. I just ordered the drive this week from Amazon, so I'm assuming I'll be seeing a "newer" EADS with the Intellipark issue.
> 
> My question is a simple one, is this issue only on the S3 or on the TivoHD as well? Is the TivoHD affected by the Intellipark problem?!


Well, I had no issues with this upgrade in my TiVoHD. My WD10EADS had an october build date, but I still checked out the wdidle3 utility to check the state of the Intellipark. I never got the bootable cdrom to work (I have a goofy motherboard), so I quickly built a bootable USB flash drive using the HP USB Storage Tool (google for "usb disk storage format tool" and click the link to extremeoverclocking.com) along with the Windows drivers linked on that page. After I built that USB stick, I copied on the wdidle3.exe to the drive. Booting off the USB, it showed me that the Idle state thing was "disabled" and to check I ran the program again with the /D switch. No issues.

I then burned the "ftool" iso that is linked in the faq on the first page of this thread to check the state of the Automatic Acoustic Management setting. Querying the drive showed me that it was set to the lowest amount (128).

After that I fired up the mfslive CD and first took a backup of my current 160gig TiVo drive to a file saved to the USB stick, and then did a drive copy with expansion to the new 1tb drive. That took about an hour (I didn't have much on the TiVo drive). Popped the new drive into the TiVo and with the confidence from reading this thread, I buttoned up the TiVo without testing first and screwed everything back together. Fired it up and have a perfectly working upgrade.

Great thread, great community on this forum, great tools created to complete this job. Thanks everyone.


----------



## richsadams

usurpah said:


> Well, I had no issues with this upgrade in my TiVoHD. My WD10EADS had an october build date, but I still checked out the wdidle3 utility to check the state of the Intellipark. .


Nice work. :up: Did you attempt a menu restart? If the drive was manufactured in October it may or may not hang at the "Welcome" screen. If so, just power cycle. I'm just curious.  TIA


----------



## jeffw_00

Silly question -why are people buying the WD10EADS when WD10EVDS is available? why muck with intellipark if you don't have to?
/j


----------



## usurpah

richsadams said:


> Nice work. :up: Did you attempt a menu restart? If the drive was manufactured in October it may or may not hang at the "Welcome" screen. If so, just power cycle. I'm just curious.  TIA


Hi Rich. I can confirm that the TiVo restarts normally when selecting restart from the settings screen. No issues at all.



jeffw_00 said:


> Silly question -why are people buying the WD10EADS when WD10EVDS is available? why muck with intellipark if you don't have to?
> /j


Simple enough reason for me: the FAQ was updated with the EADS issue on 12/26. I bought my WD drive from Amazon on 12/23. It's a 10 minute fix, no big deal.


----------



## kokoko

jeffw_00 said:


> Silly question -why are people buying the WD10EADS when WD10EVDS is available? why muck with intellipark if you don't have to?
> /j


According WD's product page, the WD10EVDS features IntelliPark.

Am I missing something here?

I can't post a link since my post count is <5.


----------



## CraigK

jeffw_00 said:


> Silly question -why are people buying the WD10EADS when WD10EVDS is available? why muck with intellipark if you don't have to?
> /j


It's all about when you bought the drive and what the date of manufacture was. The EVDS drives are just starting to show up with the Intellipark problem.

I did two TiVo HD upgrades (in October and November) using EVDS drives that worked fine...

... but that was after my first attempt failed. I ordered an EVVS drive and it was delivered the same day it was taken off the recommended list in this thread. The new EVVS drives were starting to show the Intellipark problem during the week the drive was being shipped .The Intellipark problem (only recently diagnosed) is gradually migrating to other WD drives like the EADS and EVDS.


----------



## richsadams

jeffw_00 said:


> Silly question -why are people buying the WD10EADS when WD10EVDS is available? why muck with intellipark if you don't have to?
> /j


If you go back through the recent posts you'll find that the WD10EVDS also began displaying the same Intellipark issue with drives manufactured in November.


----------



## richsadams

usurpah said:


> Hi Rich. I can confirm that the TiVo restarts normally when selecting restart from the settings screen. No issues at all.


Sweet and thanks for that. Looks like your WD10EADS' October manufacture date was early enough to miss the Intellipark change over. Enjoy! :up:


----------



## bkdtv

CraigK said:


> It's all about when you bought the drive and what the date of manufacture was. The EVDS drives are just starting to show up with the Intellipark problem.
> 
> I did two TiVo HD upgrades (in October and November) using EVDS drives that worked fine...


I don't suppose you recall the November date on your EVDS? It would be better if we could specify a specific date that WD added Intellipark to the WD10EVDS, rather than "sometime in November."


----------



## sweez

mrbeefhead said:


> From this thread I have learned that _Intellipark_ affects soft-boots. Two questions:
> 
> 1) Does anyone know if Intellipark could contribute to picture freezing? I have the EADS and am experiencing pretty frequent freezes.
> 
> 2) When wdidle3 is used on a drive that has been servicing a TiVo HD, are all recordings lost?


1. It's possible since the assumption is that the feature is aggressively parking the read/write heads on the drives. I can also say that I experienced the same on my EADS drive two weeks ago. I knew this was a sign the hd was dying. Problem was confirmed by a WD diagnostic tools test. Simple test didnt complete. Read errors were reported. I ordered a replacement EADS before knowing about the Intellipark issue. Working fine. As a precaution, I disabled Intellipark on the new EADS. I'll create another posting detailing my upgrade experience.

2. Wont affect recordings, but chances are disabling it will be too late. I disabled the feature on the old drive and the WD tools still reported read errors. The hd was dying.


----------



## sweez

Just thought I would contribute my experience on using a newly purchased EADS drive for my Tivo HD.

Six months ago, purchased a EADS from Zipzoomfly. Was able to swap out the original WD 160 drive easily. The EADS drive was working fine and quietly over the past six months until two weeks ago the Tivo starting acting funny.

It starting freezing on a couple of recorded programs and during live TV. Then it rebooted itself. I immediately suspected the drive was starting to die. About 90% of the time there was no freezing. However, I quickly ordered a new EADS from Newegg knowing this would only get worse over time. The drive arrived the next day (oh, how I love their fast shipping).

To refresh my mind on the upgrade instructions, I came here. I was shocked to see the EADS was no longer recommended. Luckily, there was info to make it work (thanks to drey!). I figured it was better to try that than return for a restocking fee or delay the repair.

The new EADS I received was dated September 2009. Same firmware and model as the old one. Old one was dated July 2009.

Model Number: WDC WD10EADS-00M2B0 
Firmware Number: 01.00A01​
I was hoping to get a good backup from the old EADS using winmfs. Hooked up to a USB SATA enclosure. Completed successfully. Phew!

Ran the WD diag tool, windlg, on the old EADS. It reported read errors on the simple test.

06-Quick Test on drive 2 did not complete! 
Status code = 07 (Failed read test element)
Failure Checkpoint = 105 (Unknown Test) 
SMART self-test did not complete on drive 2!​
Tested the new EADS with windlg as a precaution. Completed both simple and extended tests. Extended test took over 8 hours using USB/SATA. Simple test took less than 5 minutes.

Ran wdidle3 /r on both old and new EADS using another machine with SATA on the motherboard. Both were enabled and set at 8000 milliseconds.

Then restored the backup to the new drive using winmfs. Connected it to the Tivo HD. Got past "Powering up" msg. Flickered and showed "almost there" msg. Flickered again and rebooted to "Powering up" msg. Then I got the Green screen saying Tivo needed to do a repair and would take three hours. I shutdown Tivo. At that point, I wasnt sure if the backup I had was good or it was somehow the Intellipark issue on the new drive.

Then I tried disabling Intellipark on the old drive using wdidle3 /d. Put back into the Tivo HD. Booted fine. I concluded Intellipark didnt make difference whether on or off on my two EADS drives. I figured I had a less than perfect backup.

Reconnected the new drive and the same Green Tivo repair screen appeared. Let it run its course this time. Completed after 3 hours and then booted fine. I guess the backup wasnt perfect. Tivo was able to repair it.

Decided to disable Intellipark on the new EADS just in case this was the cause of the old drive failing. It booted up fine in the Tivo HD.

Just something to note, the Tivo To Do List was missing stuff from my Season Passes. I reordered the Season Pass list. That didnt fix it. I added a new show to the Season Pass and that got the To Do List to reindex.

Everything is working fine now, Tivo and the new EADS drive. The old EADS drive was still under warranty. Returning to WD for a replacement.

Thanks to everyone in the community. Reading your experiences truly helps! Hope this helps someone in return.


----------



## jeffw_00

Where can I get wdidle3.exe? - the link in the post in the first page doesn't appear to work.

I did find it here

http://home.arcor.de/ghostadmin/wdidle3_1_00.zip

Is this the same thing? (txt file says version 1.00 for DOS, copyright 2005 - 2008)

Also - some people mention setting the timer to a different value - is this better than disabling it?

Thanks!
/j

(I have an EVDS I'm putting in this weekend, it's dated 10/15 but I'm going to wdidle it first anyway, - can't hurt, apparently)


----------



## mrbeefhead

sweez, thank you VERY MUCH for sharing your experience. may I ask how long it took to back up your old EADS? i'm going to replace my EADS but am really not looking forward to losing all of my recordings.


----------



## CraigK

bkdtv said:


> I don't suppose you recall the November date on your EVDS? It would be better if we could specify a specific date that WD added Intellipark to the WD10EVDS, rather than "sometime in November."


Even though I ordered the drives in October and November, the date on both was 01 AUG 2009. I probably got some of the last from the older batch at Amazon. Lucky for me or I would have repeated my EVVS experience.


----------



## drey

jeffw_00 said:


> Where can I get wdidle3.exe? - the link in the post in the first page doesn't appear to work.
> 
> I did find it here
> 
> http://home.arcor.de/ghostadmin/wdidle3_1_00.zip
> 
> Is this the same thing? (txt file says version 1.00 for DOS, copyright 2005 - 2008)
> 
> Also - some people mention setting the timer to a different value - is this better than disabling it?
> 
> Thanks!
> /j
> 
> (I have an EVDS I'm putting in this weekend, it's dated 10/15 but I'm going to wdidle it first anyway, - can't hurt, apparently)


Not sure why link doesn't work for you. It works for me just fine.

You can certainly use the above wdidel3 if you like, but you'd have to make a bootable CD on your own.

Note, that if you use wdidle3 version 1.03, the timer will be set to a long time but not actually disabled. If you use wdidle3 version 1.0, the timer will be disabled. In my experience disabling the timer resolve the issue with soft-reboot every single time, while setting to 65 sec or longer was hit or miss. I'd personally would suggest disabling the timer.

-- Andrey


----------



## bkdtv

drey said:


> Not sure why link doesn't work for you. It works for me just fine.
> 
> You can certainly use the above wdidel3 if you like, but you'd have to make a bootable CD on your own.


Some employers block t i n y u r l, I think.


----------



## drey

bkdtv said:


> Some employers block t i n y u r l, I think.


I think you're right.

jeffw_00, you can send me PM if you need a direct link. You're not doing drive upgrades while at work, are you?


----------



## jeffw_00

drey said:


> I think you're right.
> 
> jeffw_00, you can send me PM if you need a direct link. You're not doing drive upgrades while at work, are you?


No, not at work - appears my hosts-file protection was blocking it. Got it now.
thanks
/j

So does the iso image run 1.00 (good) or 1.03 (not so good)? (ANSWER: 1.0)


----------



## fpage77

I just ran wdidle3 /D on my WD5000AVDS and showed as feature disabled. I double checked by running the command wdidle3 again by itself and confirmed it shows as disabled. I've booted my TiVo and once up all the way went in and choose to do a restart and wouldn't you know it it goes past powering up screen and boots. Thanks drey!


----------



## drey

fpage77 said:


> I just ran wdidle3 /D on my WD5000AVDS and showed as feature disabled. I double checked by running the command wdidle3 again by itself and confirmed it shows as disabled. I've booted my TiVo and once up all the way went in and choose to do a restart and wouldn't you know it it goes past powering up screen and boots. Thanks drey!


You're very welcome! Enjoy your 500GB drive!


----------



## mellenfan

I have wdidle3.exe on my computer - when I run it from a DOS screen it was cannot execute. When I simply double click the exe file a window pops up and then disppears. 

What am I doing wrong? 

Also, will this also work for Hitachi drives?


----------



## jeffw_00

it doesn't run in windows. you need to boot your PC into DOS (what's provided in the FAQ is an ISO image to burn to CD and boot off of).


----------



## cjv2

mellenfan said:


> I have wdidle3.exe on my computer - when I run it from a DOS screen it was cannot execute. When I simply double click the exe file a window pops up and then disppears.
> 
> What am I doing wrong?
> 
> Also, will this also work for Hitachi drives?


(1) Are you running it from DOS, or from a command prompt inside Windows? It won't work properly inside Windows.

(2) The utility is from Western Digital, designed by them for the drives that they manufacture. Not Hitachi's drives.


----------



## selectplayselect

Hello. I just upgraded a TivoHD with a 1tb WD10EADS drive that I ordered quite some time ago (drive is dated 7 Aug 2009). This thread was a big help, but I still had to hunt a few things down that changed a bit over time. I thought I'd post a quick summary in case others are going down the same path. 

First, to set the acoustic management values in the drive, one must use an older version of the Hitachi Feature Tool than is currently available from the Hitachi website. I found that version 2.05 of the feature tool is included with the Ultimate Boot CD 4.1.1. and it works fine. It's a free download. My drive had the acoustic management disabled by default. I enabled it, and set the value to 128, the most quiet.

Also, I had issues with wdidle3.exe, the DOS utility that allows one to disable the Intellipark feature that is becoming common on WD Green drives. I burned the ISO to CD, but had problems with the included DOS CDROM driver not recognizing many of my optical devices. Also, wdidle3.exe seems picky about which SATA controllers it likes. To simplify things, I ended up putting the wdidle3.exe file onto a Win98 DOS boot floppy that worked everywhere, then I tried various motherboards with onboard SATA until I found one that allowed wdidle3.exe to see the drive.

Once I got that far, I used wd3idle to confirm that my drive had "idle3" enabled, which seems to be the indication for the Intellipark feature. I tried using "wdidle3 /D" to disable Intellipark, but it would not work. There was no error reported, but subsequent runs of wdidle would show that the drive still had "idle3" enabled and set to some small number of milliseconds. As a workaround, I used "wdidle3 /S255" to set the "idle3" delay to 25500 milliseconds. That solved the Tivo soft reboot hang problem for me.


----------



## bkdtv

selectplayselect said:


> First, to set the acoustic management values in the drive, one must use an older version of the Hitachi Feature Tool than is currently available from the Hitachi website. I found that version 2.05 of the feature tool is included with the Ultimate Boot CD 4.1.1. and it works fine. It's a free download. My drive had the acoustic management disabled by default. I enabled it, and set the value to 128, the most quiet.


Note the first post to this thread (the FAQ) links to the Hitachi Feature Tool v2.11 boot CD that allows AAM adjustment. That function was changed in 2.12+.


----------



## HazelW

Note if you have a fairly recent computer your SATA may be set to AHCI in teh BIOS. If so, DOS will not recognize your disks. Reset to SATA in the BIOS and it should work fine.


----------



## selectplayselect

HazelW said:


> Note if you have a fairly recent computer your SATA may be set to AHCI in teh BIOS. If so, DOS will not recognize your disks. Reset to SATA in the BIOS and it should work fine.


What I eventually deduced is that DOS access to SATA drives won't work with any of the PCI SATA controller cards I could find, only integrated motherboard SATA. Also, if there are multiple SATA controllers on the motherboard, then DOS might only be able to see drives on one of them. Changing AHCI in the bios is also important. Once DOS is happy, wdidle3.exe should be able to see and manipulate the drive settings.


----------



## yukit

I picked up an Hitachi Deathstar 2TB (HD32000 IDK/7K) for my desktop or NAS upgrade, but I figured I would try the Tivo upgrade.

Mfscopy took about 3.5 hours to copy from an original drive with WinMfs.
I have managed to complete the upgrade without missing any regularly scheduled recordings :up:

The HDXL did not boot up the first time, it got stuck on "Powering up" for about 10mins, so I had to hard reboot again. The soft reboot with Restart menu option took about 5 mins till the THX logo.

This drive may not be as quiet (I have already set AAM to 128) as the WD GP drive, but my spouse has not noticed the difference. I will probably end up swapping the drive for a WD GP 2TB eventually.


----------



## dgarrick

I would like to add an esata Antec MX-1 Seagate 1.5tb drive to my Tivo HD. I see and understand the expansion instructions for building your own eSata drive. BUT what I do not see addressed is the resultant Now Play List view.

I want to pre-load the expansion drive with several thousand videos (avi, mpg, etc. - includes a lot of video shorts) which are in multi-level folders (more than two levels in some cases). I assume the resultant NPL will be very, very long and time-consuming to navigate? 

Currently I play the videos from a networked drive but it is very time-consuming to transfer a "playlist" of musical shorts from my collection one-at-a-time during a viewing session.

Can I build the eSata expansion drive, pre-load it with several thousand videos, plug it into the Tivo, crank it up, and see the videos with their multi-level folders in the Now Playing List, navigate into the multi-level folders, click & play?

1) Can you in fact pre-load the expansion drive?
2) If not, how the transfer thousands of multi-level folders so that they show up somewhere in the NPL without making the NPL too long? 
3) Is there a better way to do this?

Thanks for any help!


----------



## whitepelican

dgarrick said:


> Can I build the eSata expansion drive, pre-load it with several thousand videos, plug it into the Tivo, crank it up, and see the videos with their multi-level folders in the Now Playing List, navigate into the multi-level folders, click & play?
> 
> 1) Can you in fact pre-load the expansion drive?


No, that won't work.



dgarrick said:


> 2) If not, how the transfer thousands of multi-level folders so that they show up somewhere in the NPL without making the NPL too long?
> 3) Is there a better way to do this?


Your best bet would probably be to set up a networked drive and run pytivo. Pytivo will retain the folder structure, so that part wouldn't be a problem. As long as your network is fast enough, then you should be able to just "click & play" on any video on your drive.


----------



## dgarrick

whitepelican said:


> Your best bet would probably be to set up a networked drive and run pytivo.


Actually that is what I am doing now and it does work but not well-suited for 1000's of video shorts.

Any way to add expansion drive and then reconstruct multi-level folder structures on the NPL by transferring the video content from the network drive to the NPL?

Thanks for your help.


----------



## bkdtv

dgarrick said:


> Any way to add expansion drive and then reconstruct multi-level folder structures on the NPL by transferring the video content from the network drive to the NPL?


Unfortunately, the current TiVo software does not support subfolders for videos stored on the DVR.


----------



## jeffw_00

is it worthwhile to enable acoustic management on the new WD Green drives (like WD10EVDS)? How much difference does it really make? Does it ever cause problems?


----------



## richsadams

jeffw_00 said:


> is it worthwhile to enable acoustic management on the new WD Green drives (like WD10EVDS)? How much difference does it really make? Does it ever cause problems?


Hey Jeff. I haven't used the EVDS model but have experience with WD's EACS, EVCS and EADS lines. All three were very quiet out of the box (5400 RPM drives are fairly quiet as compared to 7200 RPM drives anyway). I lowered the AAM on all three, but I have to admit that after doing so there wasn't a whole lot of difference to my ears...and that was with them sitting bare on top of my computer. Inside TiVo I'd think it wouldn't make much of an impact. I've never had any problems with drives after adjusting the AAM. AFAIK no one else has either.

If it were a TiVo in my bedroom I'd go the extra mile, but otherwise I don't think I'll make any adjustments if I have the occasion to get another one. YMMV of course.


----------



## doctord

jeffw_00 said:


> is it worthwhile to enable acoustic management on the new WD Green drives (like WD10EVDS)? How much difference does it really make? Does it ever cause problems?


Jeff,

I just installed a W10EADS in a TiVo HD for my bedroom after trying a couple of other brands that were too loud (Seagate and Hitatchi). Before I installed the WD drive, I turned off the head parking and set the AAM to 128. It was super quiet but I was experiencing some strange behavior. It only occurred when I was transferring video to the bedroom unit from my Series 3. I would see some stuttering on live TV and had some menu hang-ups such as when I hit the NPL it would would show up on top of the video without the background and hang. Strangely enough it didn't seem to happen while transferring video from my computer, only the S3.
I originally thought that it might have something to do with the wireless connection, so I ran an Ethernet cable to the bedroom. Same issues. I took the drive out and it tested fine. I decided to exchange it for another one because I was convinced that it had to be bad. When I put the new WD drive in the HD, I forgot to set the AAM and although it was quiet, I could still hear it faintly at night. I did not notice any of the bad behavior that I was having with the first drive and thought I was home free. Last night I took the drive back out to set the AAM to 128. The drive is now virtually silent but the stuttering and menu hangs are back intermittently when transferring.

My opinion is that the drives are quiet enough out of the box for any room but a bedroom and when you turn down the AAM it does affect drive performance. I would try it first without setting the AAM and see what you think.


----------



## kookmyers

Just received my WD10EVDS today and looking forward to the project this weekend! It was manufactured Dec 7 2009.


----------



## bkdtv

kookmyers said:


> Just received my WD10EVDS today and looking forward to the project this weekend! It was manufactured Dec 7 2009.


Be aware that you'll need to follow the instructions to disable the Intellipark feature on that drive.


----------



## kookmyers

Do I need to be aware of anything with regards to following these steps using a PC with Windows 7?


----------



## bkdtv

kookmyers said:


> Do I need to be aware of anything with regards to following these steps using a PC with Windows 7?


Well, you can't disable Intellipark from within Windows 7. You have to use a boot CD.

But as far as everything else, the instructions are no different under Windows 7 than they are under Windows Vista.


----------



## JonS

A quick data point for you guys. I just successfully completed replacing the stock 160GB drive in my TiVo HD with a WD10EVDS. I was about to order the drive when I noticed it had been removed from the recommended list. However, when I saw that the "soft reboot" problem could be easily resolved, I decided to get the WD10EVDS anyway, since it seemed like the best drive for this application.

Anyway, as it turns out the drive I received was dated on 10/23/2009 and I've confirmed it does *not* exhibit the problem.

I transferred all the recordings (the drive was pretty much full) to the new drive, which took only 40 minutes or so. The upgrade process took about one hour from start to finish.

Thanks to the community for the instructions, the tools and the knowledge!

Jon


----------



## richsadams

JonS said:


> A quick data point for you guys. I just successfully completed replacing the stock 160GB drive in my TiVo HD with a WD10EVDS.


Nice work Jon and welcome! Curious, where did you buy your hard drive? Just wondering who has some older stock on hand. TIA and enjoy!


----------



## jlib

doctord said:


> ...Before I installed the WD drive, I turned off the head parking and set the AAM to 128. It was super quiet but I was experiencing some strange behavior. It only occurred when I was transferring video to the bedroom unit from my Series 3. I would see some stuttering on live TV and had some menu hang-ups such as when I hit the NPL it would would show up on top of the video without the background and hang....
> ...I took the drive out and it tested fine. I decided to exchange it for another one because I was convinced that it had to be bad. When I put the new WD drive in the HD, I forgot to set the AAM and although it was quiet, I could still hear it faintly at night. I did not notice any of the bad behavior that I was having with the first drive and thought I was home free. Last night I took the drive back out to set the AAM to 128. The drive is now virtually silent but the stuttering and menu hangs are back intermittently when transferring.


Very interesting! Technically, changing the AAM setting _should_ have no performance effect and I believe your report is the first. I would be interested in the additional data point of what happens if you again reset the AAM to default setting (which I assume you are going to do).


----------



## dgarrick

yukit said:


> WD10EARS drives are now available on Newegg. Interestingly, the drive has a new formatting feature to set the physical sector to 4k. I would think you don't want that for a Tivo drive.
> 
> Who wants to be the first to use this drive for an upgrade


Can anyone confirm that the WD10EARS is in fact plug 'n play (and not plug 'n pray), or, at the least a minimal-hassle TiVO HD upgrade solution?

I am getting ready to click the Amazon Buy button.


----------



## waiting485

JonS said:


> I decided to get the WD10EVDS anyway, since it seemed like the best drive for this application.
> 
> Jon


This is where I am confused too, I installed the WD10EVDS drive which had the intellipark issue, now my friend is looking to upgrade his HD Tivo and I am wondering should I recommend the above drive or the new WD10EARS drives, looking at the western digital website they have specifically mentioned that WD10EVDS drives are ideal for

Set-top boxes (PVR, DVR and IPTV)
Media servers
Media centers
Surveillance

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=617

The WD10EARS drives don't have such mention.
http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=763

I am leaning towards recommending WD10EVDS drives as it is very easy to disable intellipark feature.


----------



## kookmyers

dgarrick,
newegg is having a sale on the drive (edit: for $90). i didnt check amazon's price......(edit: $109.99)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136490
Use code 24HRSALE16B


----------



## JonS

richsadams said:


> Nice work Jon and welcome! Curious, where did you buy your hard drive? Just wondering who has some older stock on hand. TIA and enjoy!


WiredZone.com. Although of course there is no guarantee you'll get a pre-November drive. I think I picked them just because they were cheapest on a Google product search - usually I go with NewEgg, but they don't carry this drive.

Jon


----------



## richsadams

JonS said:


> WiredZone.com. Although of course there is no guarantee you'll get a pre-November drive. I think I picked them just because they were cheapest on a Google product search - usually I go with NewEgg, but they don't carry this drive.
> 
> Jon


Got it...and right, no guarantee of what you might end up with, but for anyone wanting this drive it might be worth a try. Thanks again. :up:


----------



## dgarrick

kookmyers said:


> dgarrick,
> newegg is having a sale on the drive (edit: for $90). i didnt check amazon's price......(edit: $109.99)


Hey Kook and thanks for the Newegg heads up. I saw that Newegg was cheaper for the WD10EARS as you say but I have 2-day Prime delivery on Amazon so I opted a pay Amazon's extra cost so's it would be here by the weekend although Newegg typically has fast delivery here also but just didn't want to chance it.

I'll report back on how the EARS upgrade went. Doing an external Seagate 1.5TB with Antec MX-1 enclosure expansion drive along with the WD10EARS internal drive upgrade.


----------



## schwinn

Is anyone actually using the Seagate LP drive in their Tivo? Is it a drop-in replacement as well?

I know that the WD EARS is the favorite right now, but I have had terrible luck with WD drives in the past, including one in my S1 Tivo... the Seagates I have had, on the other hand, run for MANY years without issues... which is why I'd like to keep to that brand...

(I have a stack of dead WD drives from numerous computers <2years old, while my ancient 20GB Seagate (now retired) ran for 10 years with no issues. The Maxtor and WD in the S1 Tivo both failed after <1.5 years... the Seagate in there now is still running after more than 6 years.)


----------



## richsadams

schwinn said:


> Is anyone actually using the Seagate LP drive in their Tivo? Is it a drop-in replacement as well?
> 
> I know that the WD EARS is the favorite right now, but I have had terrible luck with WD drives in the past, including one in my S1 Tivo... the Seagates I have had, on the other hand, run for MANY years without issues... which is why I'd like to keep to that brand...
> 
> (I have a stack of dead WD drives from numerous computers <2years old, while my ancient 20GB Seagate (now retired) ran for 10 years with no issues. The Maxtor and WD in the S1 Tivo both failed after <1.5 years... the Seagate in there now is still running after more than 6 years.)


You know a few years ago I would have been right there with you regarding WD Vs Seagate. Seagate drives were bullet-proof and WD's were, well, let's just say that folks that knew anything about HDD's avoided them like the plague. However I think times have changed...about 180 degrees. I was a Seagate man for many, many years. They produced a very high quality product. However in the past few years their problems have continued to mount with recalls, firmware problems, etc. It's as if WD and Seagate switched QC labs and personnel.

My more recent experience includes five WD GP drives, all of which have been flawless. Last month I bought an NAS and two 1.5TB Seagate LP drives to fill it from Amazon because they had a great price. One of the drives was terribly noisy (far louder than the specs indicated) wouldn't format and the other had the "click of death". I returned both drives. The reviews before and after were mostly bad. More here (http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Barra...iewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending).

So I'd do some more research before going down the Seagate path right now. YMMV of course.

BTW I wouldn't call the WD EARS model a "favorite". They just hit the market and AFAIK no one has installed one in a TiVo. They may not work at all...probably will, but who knows? I'm looking forward to hearing dgarrick's experience with one. He'll join the TiVo Pioneer's Club if he's the first. (Free T-shirt and all!)


----------



## yukit

richsadams said:


> ...
> BTW I wouldn't call the WD EARS model a "favorite". They just hit the market and AFAIK no one has installed one in a TiVo. They may not work at all...probably will, but who knows? I'm looking forward to hearing dgarrick's experience with one. He'll join the TiVo Pioneer's Club if he's the first. (Free T-shirt and all!)


+1

I am waiting for a WD20EARS drive to become widely available though the Hitachi 2TB drive has been working just fine so far.

I was doing some research regarding the physical sector size change from 512 to 4096. It seems Vista, Windows7, OSX & modern Linux distros are able to recognize the new physical sector size. I don't know where Tivo fits in among the Linux versions.

I would also think apps like MFS Tools & WinMFS may be affected depending on the drive is emulating the 512 sector or not, but I don't want to state anything here without a 1st hand knowledge.

Here is a bit of info on the drive. I also found some discussion on SPCR forum:
http://anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3691&p=1


----------



## whitepelican

schwinn said:


> Is anyone actually using the Seagate LP drive in their Tivo? Is it a drop-in replacement as well?


I'm using a 1.5TB Seagate LP drive (model #ST31500541AS) in one of my Series 3's. It works. But it is much, much noisier than the WD WD10EADS that I have in my other unit. I had to swap my Tivos around because the Seagate was much too noisy for the bedroom. The WD10EADS is so quiet I can't hear it at all even with my ear up to it.

Two other 1TB Seagate/Maxtor drives that I've purchased in the past couple of years both had firmware problems.

Stick with the Western Digital. You've been warned.


----------



## cjv2

I can't speak to the current generation of WD drives with respect to longevity, for obvious reasons. But the 500TB drive I stuck in a NAS back in '07 is still going strong, as was the 160GB drive in my TivoHD up until I replaced it with a 1TB. Also, both the 160GB and the 1TB are insanely quiet. I was working with them bare in the open air and I could hear them... if I turned everything else around me off or got up close and personal with them.

YMMV...


----------



## scottndsky

Greetings Tivo Community,

I'm a long time lurker, first time poster...

I just replaced my stock Tivo HD drive with the previously recommended WD10EVDS, purchased from Amazon. The date of mfg. is 06 OCT 2009. The copy operation went smooth except that I had to pull the drive and redo the "supersize" manually. Answering "yes" to the prompt at the end of the copy operation left me with 142 hours. After manually &#8220;supersizing&#8221; I got the full 157 hours. 

So far I haven't encountered any functional problems with the new drive. I can perform the soft reboot with no problems so I don't think I'm affected by the Intellipark issue. I haven't exercised all of the features yet (like local network transfers), but all the recording and playback features seem fine.

My only complaint about the new drive is the noise. I&#8217;m referring to the base-level hum/vibration, not the clickity-clack of the heads moving around. My Tivo sits in an entertainment cabinet, and it never bothered me before. With the new drive the vibration reverberates out of the cabinet and is quite annoying. I resorted to putting some packing foam underneath the Tivo which has helped a lot, but I never had to do this with the original drive. Now my Tivo sits atop some ugly pink foam.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Does this AAM setting impact the base-level vibration? Is this normal? Considering the Intellipark thing, should I return the drive and hope for a quieter one? Any suggestions or advice is appreciated.

Regards,
Scott


----------



## bkdtv

scottndsky said:


> I just replaced my stock Tivo HD drive with the previously recommended WD10EVDS, purchased from Amazon. The date of mfg. is 06 OCT 2009.


The "soft reboot" issue (and the fix) only affects WD10EVDS drives manufactured since November.



scottndsky said:


> My only complaint about the new drive is the noise. Im referring to the base-level hum/vibration, not the clickity-clack of the heads moving around.
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions? Does this AAM setting impact the base-level vibration? Is this normal? Considering the Intellipark thing, should I return the drive and hope for a quieter one? Any suggestions or advice is appreciated.


The WD10EVDS already ships with AAM enabled. Some small variance is expected from drive to drive, but what you describe doesn't sound normal. It's possible you got a dud, noise-wise. Another possibility is that the drive platform or case screws weren't tightened completely, causing resonance; I would check that. Just be sure not to overtighten the screws to the point where you harm the threads.

If your TivoHD is on a shelf in a cabinet, you might want confirm that the shelf is really flat. Many cabinets have adjustable shelf mounting brackets, and if they aren't level, the shelves will resonate. I've had shelves mounting brackets move and come loose while I moving equipment around.

For my silent PC, I use rubber feet to minimize resonance, although I've never had a need to do that with the Tivo. That would probably be a better choice than packing foam.


----------



## brncosrule24

Will these methods work if the original hard drive is bad and you can't use it to copy file to new hard drive? If not, how would i accomplish this?


----------



## bkdtv

brncosrule24 said:


> Will these methods work if the original hard drive is bad and you can't use it to copy file to new hard drive? If not, how would i accomplish this?


It may be possible to perform a truncated backup (FAQ #20A) on a drive that no longer boots in the TiVo. If WinMFS is unable to backup the drive, it will report an error.

If you can't backup the drive with WinMFS (i.e. if it reports an error), and don't have a prior backup of the TiVo software lying around, then you would need to use DVRUpgrade's InstantCake Restore CD to restore a copy of the TiVo software to a new drive up to 1TB.


----------



## bubu

I just completed an internal drive upgrade to the WD15EARS on a Series 3...It looks like the "intelipark" feature did make it into the drive...and it was enabled.

The S3 refused to boot with the drive after a WinMFS upgrade until I ran the wdidle3 /d utill on the drive from dos.

It looks like the new WDxxEARS models are plagued by the same issue as the previous generation WD Green drives...

-bubu


----------



## bubu

...forgot to mention, the WD15EARS is silent. I can't hear it seeking with the cover off on the TiVo while it is indexing. Big improvement over the Barracuda 7200.10 750gb drive I had in there previously (which I could hear clicking from 15 feet away).


----------



## richsadams

bubu said:


> I just completed an internal drive upgrade to the WD15EARS on a Series 3...It looks like the "intelipark" feature did make it into the drive...and it was enabled.
> 
> The S3 refused to boot with the drive after a WinMFS upgrade until I ran the wdidle3 /d utill on the drive from dos.
> 
> It looks like the new WDxxEARS models are plagued by the same issue as the previous generation WD Green drives...
> 
> -bubu


Thanks much for the reports on the WD1514EARS...and being a real TiVo Pioneer! :up:


----------



## dspaeth

I have the same problem with the noise described by scottndsky using the same drive WD10EVDS. You can feel the vibration when you place your had on the Tivo cabinet. My Tivo sits in an exposed glass entertainment stand and you could hear the hum from across the room. Placing extra padding under the Tivo's feet helped. I used squares cut from an old black mouse pad. I wonder if this vibration shortens the life of the drive?


----------



## scottndsky

dspaeth said:


> I have the same problem with the noise described by scottndsky using the same drive WD10EVDS. You can feel the vibration when you place your had on the Tivo cabinet. My Tivo sits in an exposed glass entertainment stand and you could hear the hum from across the room. Placing extra padding under the Tivo's feet helped. I used squares cut from an old black mouse pad. I wonder if this vibration shortens the life of the drive?


That's what I'm wondering! I'm torn about sending it back. If I had more time on my hands it would already be back in the box on its way back to Amazon.

I checked all the screws - nothing is loose. The drive itself just vibrates more. You can feel it when the drive itself is in your hand. The box and the cabinet just magnify it. The foam I'm using is a flat piece of pink foam about 1/2" think. It elevates the entire Tivo from the shelf. It's working pretty well, but it's not very pretty...

Maybe I'll order another drive, deal with any Intellipark issues, and return the quieter of the two drives.

Scott


----------



## schwinn

richsadams said:


> You know a few years ago I would have been right there with you regarding WD Vs Seagate....(snip)


Thanks for the detailed and thorough response. I'll admit, I recently had some dealings with the Seagate 750GB drives (5 in all). 1 came "bad" and wouldn't complete a RAID5 restore. Two others have been flaky for the RAID0 setup that's on a friend's computer (they are now operating fine, for some reason). I do recall the firmware issues with the 1TB drives...

I currently have a 500GB that's my in my main computer (Barracuda 7200.12 ST3500418AS, 7200 RPM, SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive). It's silent (quieter than the WDs I usually pull out of other customer's computers) and runs with no issues... so I'm rather surprised to hear of all these noise complaints... particularly with the LP drive (which lists a lower acoustic spec than the WDs). (The 500GB I mentioned above lists 2.6/2.75 bels ~ 26/27.5 db for idle/seek... while the 1TB LP lists 1.9/2.0 bels...)

Heck even the Seagate in the Tivo S1 is silent... I can't imagine a newer drive making more than one that's 6 years old?

Anyway, maybe it's time for me to give WD another try... I'll certainly consider it. Thanks for the input.

If anyone else has experiences with Seagate (and LP drives) I'd love to hear more...


----------



## richsadams

schwinn said:


> Thanks for the detailed and thorough response.


All good. I did neglect to mention that I have a 500GB Seagate DB35 HDD in a reserve PC which has been flawless (and extremely quiet). I had it in an Antec MX-1 enclosure connected to our Series3 a few years ago when we discovered the old Kickstart install hack. I "retired" it when I upgraded to a 1TB internal.

AFAIK no one has had any complaints about Seagate's DB35 AV line of HDD's. I haven't taken a look at what they have to offer now but that might also be an option (although they are a bit pricey by comparison).

Let us know how it goes!


----------



## jagsgo

Hello guys I'm a first time poster but have been reading through posts for awhile. I'm having trouble starting the winmfs program up. I have read through the instructions on the first page about connecting two harddrives to preserve the settings and recordings. I seem to be stuck on step 9 and 10. I have windows XP and I believe that you can't start winmfs the normal way? I'm not a computer person at all in terms of dealing with drives and all that stuff. Please any help would be appreciated. 

p.s I bought a WD10EADS for tivo HD 

thanks

jason


----------



## dlfl

jagsgo said:


> Hello guys I'm a first time poster but have been reading through posts for awhile. I'm having trouble starting the winmfs program up. I have read through the instructions on the first page about connecting two harddrives to preserve the settings and recordings. I seem to be stuck on step 9 and 10. I have windows XP and I believe that you can't start winmfs the normal way? I'm not a computer person at all in terms of dealing with drives and all that stuff. Please any help would be appreciated.
> 
> p.s I bought a WD10EADS for tivo HD
> 
> thanks
> 
> jason


Does Windows come up after rebooting after connecting the SATA drives?
If not, perhaps you disconnected your boot drive?

Winmfs is started the normal way. What happens if you double click on winmfs.exe either on your desktop or in windows explorer? You did extract winmfs.exe from the zip, correct?


----------



## wackymann

I am having a very hard time turning off this stupid intellipark feature. I have 2 relatively new computers, so I thought at least one of them would do the job.

The first computer is a new HP Windows 7 (64-bit) desktop. It boots into the wdidle3 CD just fine, but when I run the command wdidle3 /D, it just gives me a message that says it is set to 6300 msec - not disabled. The BIOS says the SATA controller is in IDE mode as instructed, so I'm not sure what is wrong...

Anyways, when that failed, I figured I'd try our Dell PC running 64-bit Vista. That PC would NOT boot into the CD no matter I did. I even removed the Windows hard disk, at which point it went into an endless loop - continuously starting to boot into the CD, but giving up and trying again. I even re-burned the disk on this PC thinking that maybe it couldn't read the CD I had burned on the other machine, but that didn't change anything. And actually - I'm not even sure this computer could do it even if I could boot it into the CD, because the SATA controller only has 2 settings - AHCI and RAID. There is no EIDE compatibility mode as far as I can tell.

So now I have this $100 disk that I can't really use. Any recommendations on what i should try next?


----------



## waiting485

wackymann said:


> The first computer is a new HP Windows 7 (64-bit) desktop. It boots into the wdidle3 CD just fine, but when I run the command wdidle3 /D, it just gives me a message that says it is set to 6300 msec - not disabled. The BIOS says the SATA controller is in IDE mode as instructed, so I'm not sure what is wrong...


If it is not disabling the intellipark than try setting value to max by using following

wdidle3 /S255

This should resolve the softboot issue.


----------



## richsadams

jagsgo said:


> Hello guys I'm a first time poster but have been reading through posts for awhile. I'm having trouble starting the winmfs program up. I have read through the instructions on the first page about connecting two harddrives to preserve the settings and recordings. I seem to be stuck on step 9 and 10. I have windows XP and I believe that you can't start winmfs the normal way? I'm not a computer person at all in terms of dealing with drives and all that stuff. Please any help would be appreciated.
> 
> p.s I bought a WD10EADS for tivo HD
> 
> thanks
> 
> jason


Hi Jason. I've used XP to upgrade many drives with winMFS so that shouldn't be a problem. (Be sure to disable any virus scan software that's running).

It sounds like you want to preserve your settings and recordings and plan on following the instructions from Section V, #20b correct? So are you having trouble unzipping winMFS or opening it or...??? Per dlfl, when you say "stuck", you'll need to describe exactly what you're doing and seeing as clearly as possible.


----------



## jagsgo

Hi thanks for responding. Well the situation is that I've unzipped winmfs and its on my desktop. Its from here where I'm stuck.

"Shut down Windows, turn off your computer, and connect the original TiVo drive and your new replacement SATA drive. Do not disconnect your Windows boot drive."

"You can open your computer and connect both with SATA cables, or you can connect them externally using a pair of SATA->USB adapters or a dual drive dock. Both drives should be connected to your PC at the same time."

here is where I'm not sure what to do. Can I not run the program from my desktop in windows XP? If not I'm not sure what to do and how to connect the drives correctly. I bought a sata/IDE to usb 2.0 adapter for this switch. I hope I bought the correct cables I needed.

I don't understand what "disconnecting your boot drive means." sorry..lol


----------



## whitepelican

jagsgo said:


> Hi thanks for responding. Well the situation is that I've unzipped winmfs and its on my desktop. Its from here where I'm stuck.
> 
> "Shut down Windows, turn off your computer, and connect the original TiVo drive and your new replacement SATA drive. Do not disconnect your Windows boot drive."
> 
> "You can open your computer and connect both with SATA cables, or you can connect them externally using a pair of SATA->USB adapters or a dual drive dock. Both drives should be connected to your PC at the same time."
> 
> here is where I'm not sure what to do. Can I not run the program from my desktop in windows XP? If not I'm not sure what to do and how to connect the drives correctly. I bought a sata/IDE to usb 2.0 adapter for this switch. I hope I bought the correct cables I needed.
> 
> I don't understand what "disconnecting your boot drive means." sorry..lol


Basically, if you are going to do a drive to drive copy and preserve your Tivo recordings, you need to have 3 hard drives all connected at the same time: 1) Your original PC drive w/ Windows 2) Your "old" Tivo drive 3) Your new Tivo drive. As long as all three of those drives are connected properly, you should be able to just click on "winmfs.exe" and then do a drive to drive copy in WinMFS.


----------



## jagsgo

right ok I totally understand. I believe I do have all three connected with the usb adapter that I'm using. Does it matter that I'm using a laptop?


----------



## MPSAN

...and do not forget to turn off your AV software! If your original TiVo drive is able to go into the TiVo again, it would have saved time if you removed the deleted shows so they would not copy as well. Just a time saver though.


----------



## jagsgo

yes I did that. Now do I restart the computer after I connect the cables? or turn off the computer and then connect the cables.

also what do they mean by this: If using Windows Vista, you'll want to launch WinMFS by right-clicking on WinMFS.exe and selecting "Run as Administrator.

Can I run the program run in normal windows desktop or do I need to do something else..


----------



## MPSAN

jagsgo said:


> yes I did that. Now do I restart the computer after I connect the cables? or turn off the computer and then connect the cables.
> 
> also what do they mean by this: If using Windows Vista, you'll want to launch WinMFS by right-clicking on WinMFS.exe and selecting "Run as Administrator.
> 
> Can I run the program run in normal windows desktop or do I need to do something else..


You can just connect the drives via the USB adapter. I believe you are using a laptop. If Winmfs does not see them, you can power off, and then reboot. If you use XP, as I do, I did not have to run as admin, and will run as a normal windows app.


----------



## jagsgo

Thanks guys it looks like the transfer between the two tivo drives went through..Only thing is when I tried to expand the drive by clicking yes, it gave me an error message. And whenever I try to supersize the drive it gives me an message that says: "GUI Tools to backup restore expand fix TiVo Hard drives has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience."

then it proceeds to close and shut down the program without me doing anything to it! Is this normal?


----------



## jagsgo

Also I have an WD10EADS that's manufacture date is Oct 23, 2009...do you guys think I will need to do the intellipack feature thing...I haven't installed the new drive yet. I will check it by restarting the tivo through the messages and settings route.


----------



## bkdtv

jagsgo said:


> Also I have an *WD10EADS* that's manufacture date is Oct 23, 2009...do you guys think I will need to do the intellipack feature thing..


Most likely, yes.

It is the WD10EVDS drives that were modified with Intellipark in November. All the other drivers were modified in September or October.


----------



## jza80

Looking to find a good 1TB drive, Fry's is offering this Hitachi drive for $69 on special: Hitachi Deskstar 1TB HD31000IDK / 7K1000 ...this seems to mostly match up with the HD31000 drive listed in the recommended drive list, but there are some extra characters in the product model number. Anyone know if this is the same as the HD31000 drive that is recommended. And I assume this drive will need to be reset to the low noise setting, correct?

Thanks


----------



## richsadams

jza80 said:


> Looking to find a good 1TB drive, Fry's is offering this Hitachi drive for $69 on special: Hitachi Deskstar 1TB HD31000IDK / 7K1000 ...this seems to mostly match up with the HD31000 drive listed in the recommended drive list, but there are some extra characters in the product model number. Anyone know if this is the same as the HD31000 drive that is recommended. And I assume this drive will need to be reset to the low noise setting, correct?
> 
> Thanks


I can't guarantee that it's the same drive as the one recommended on the list. (The one on the list needs additional model info.) However in the past 60 days I've purchased three of the Hitachi 1TB HD HD31000IDK / 7K1000 hard drives and so far I am very impressed. I purchased one from Fry's as a matter of fact and two from Amazon. I have two in a NAS RAID configuration and am using one as an external hard drive for a Mac Mini. They run 10 degrees (centigrade) cooler than a year-old 1TB Hitachi drive I had and are surprisingly quiet for 7200 RPM drives - equal to most 5400 RPM's that I've used. I did not adjust the AAM so I'm guessing they could even be quieter. I actually wouldn't hesitate using them in either of our TiVo's should something happen to the WD drives they have currrently.


----------



## richsadams

jagsgo said:


> Thanks guys it looks like the transfer between the two tivo drives went through..Only thing is when I tried to expand the drive by clicking yes, it gave me an error message. And whenever I try to supersize the drive it gives me an message that says: "GUI Tools to backup restore expand fix TiVo Hard drives has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience."
> 
> then it proceeds to close and shut down the program without me doing anything to it! Is this normal?


No, that's not normal...and I'm not sure what would cause it. If someone else here doesn't chime in quickly I'd post on Spike's MFSLive web site forum. He created winMFS and can probably help you out:

www.mfslive.org/forums/


----------



## jagsgo

well it looks like I was able to transfer the settings and recordings to the new WD10EADS drive. Now I can't figure out how to disable the Intellipark feature. 

can anyone help me out?

for step 2: "Connect the affected WD drive to any available SATA connector on your motherboard. Ensure that in BIOS hard drives are set to EIDE Compatible mode and not AHCI or RAID. This is needed so bootable DOS CD can detect the drive." 

does this mean that I have to open up my laptop and connect the WD10EADS hard drive to my motherboard? Also how do I go BIOS? is this like MS DOS? and how do I get to this?

thanks, 

jason


----------



## richsadams

jagsgo said:


> Rich,
> 
> thanks for responding! well it looks like I was able to transfer the settings and recordings to the new WD10EADS drive. Now I can't figure out how to disable the Intellipark feature.
> 
> can you help me out?
> 
> for step 2 "Connect the affected WD drive to any available SATA connector on your motherboard. Ensure that in BIOS hard drives are set to EIDE Compatible mode and not AHCI or RAID. This is needed so bootable DOS CD can detect the drive."
> 
> does this mean that I have to open up my laptop and connect the WD10EADS hard drive to my motherboard? any help would be appreciated.
> 
> thanks,
> 
> jason


Hi Jason, no problem. I'm afraid I can't help you with disabling the Intellipark "feature". I've never used a laptop for an upgrade...although it obviously works. Plus I've never used the program to disable Intellipark. Hopefully someone will chime in.

It seems like someone used a laptop to disable Intellipark so you might want to scroll back a ways. I don't think they opened it up though, so maybe there's a work around such as using a SATA to USB adapter.

Although I think the manufacture date you mentioned would indicate that Intellipark is active, it might not be. There's only one way to find out. You could put the drive in TiVo and confirm that everything works. Then you could try doing a soft reboot.

1. Go to TiVo Central
2. Select Messages & Settings
3. Select Restart or Reset System
4. Select Restart the TiVo DVR
5. Press Thumbs Down three times
6. Press Enter

If it doesn't hang on the "Welcome" screen you should be good to go. If it does you can power cycle it (pull the plug, wait ten seconds and plug it back in) and it should start up normally.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


----------



## kookmyers

I just completed my expansion to a new WD10EVDS that i purchased. The drive was manufactured in December. I ran wdidle3 and was unable to disable the drive so i set it to max as mentioned above. It seems to be working. A big thanks to everyone who has contributed to this forum.


----------



## jza80

richsadams said:


> I can't guarantee that it's the same drive as the one recommended on the list. (The one on the list needs additional model info.) However in the past 60 days I've purchased three of the Hitachi 1TB HD HD31000IDK / 7K1000 hard drives and so far I am very impressed. I purchased one from Fry's as a matter of fact and two from Amazon. I have two in a NAS RAID configuration and am using one as an external hard drive for a Mac Mini. They run 10 degrees (centigrade) cooler than a year-old 1TB Hitachi drive I had and are surprisingly quiet for 7200 RPM drives - equal to most 5400 RPM's that I've used. I did not adjust the AAM so I'm guessing they could even be quieter. I actually wouldn't hesitate using them in either of our TiVo's should something happen to the WD drives they have currrentaly.


Thanks. What I am finding is that the drives listed with the lower noise levels are difficult to find online. I guess I will pick up the Hitachi and try it out. The worst thing that will happen is that it doesn't work and I will use it for something else...too bad the WD drives specifically made for DVR are discontinued.


----------



## jagsgo

hey kookmyers,

could you elaborate on how you were able to disable Intellipark "feature." Like what exactly I have to do if I need to open up my computer or can I run a program for this?

thanks,

jason


----------



## richsadams

jza80 said:


> Thanks. What I am finding is that the drives listed with the lower noise levels are difficult to find online. I guess I will pick up the Hitachi and try it out. The worst thing that will happen is that it doesn't work and I will use it for something else...too bad the WD drives specifically made for DVR are discontinued.


I think you'll be happy with the Hitachi drive. The one-year old 1TB Hitachi I mentioned earlier came out of a NewerTech Ministack external drive I used for the Mac Mini. It sounded like a jet airplane most of the time. Not only was the drive very loud, it ran quite hot and the Ministack's exhanust fan would run at top speed whenever there was a load. Luckily it was in a cabinet so I couldn't hear it. When I picked up the first new Hitachi HD31000IDK / 7K1000 I was amazed at how quiet it was. I didn't change the AAM because I put it in the Ministack and wanted it to run at the best performance level. But as mentioned they are very quiet out of the box and would probably be even quieter with the AAM tuned down...something that wouldn't affect TiVo. I was going to use the older one and a new one in the NAS but the new one was so much quieter and ran so much cooler than the old one that I ordered two more. I put them both in the NAS. All is quiet and cool on the western front. The old one is on the shelf as a backup for now...maybe I'll e-bay it I don't know. In any case, these new Hitachi drives seem to be very high quality and are quite nice IMHO. :up:


----------



## BrianM83

I'm pretty sure my series 3 hard drive is failing. It is slow to respond to commands and will restart itself. The kick start 54 test failed the extend test with "fail 7". not sure what that means. My plan is to replace the hard drive and I don't care if I lose my recorded programs. The instructions seems pretty easy. It seems like everyone is going with the WD drives, but my problem is I only have a laptop so I dont think I would be able to disable Intellipark. 

My question is what hard drive would be the best for me to use as a replacement? Why does it seem everyone is going with the WD drives? I want something reliable and also quiet. 1Tb would be nice, but I'd be happy with 500gb.

Do you think I will have problems with the swap since my original drive is on its way out?


----------



## kookmyers

jagsgo said:


> hey kookmyers,
> 
> could you elaborate on how you were able to disable Intellipark "feature." Like what exactly I have to do if I need to open up my computer or can I run a program for this?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> jason


Jason,
I wasnt exactly successful at disabling the Intellipark feature. I had to set it to the max value. Everything that you need is listed on the first page. Click on the "internal drive upgrade" link at the top, then scroll down to the list of recommended drives. Under that, there is a blurb about why certain drives were removed from the list and then there is a section that talks about what is needed to disable Intellipark. If you follow those steps and cannot disable it like i was not able to, send the command :
wdidle3 /S255
as suggested by Waiting485. (Thanks Waiting485!)


----------



## richsadams

BrianM83 said:


> I'm pretty sure my series 3 hard drive is failing. It is slow to respond to commands and will restart itself. The kick start 54 test failed the extend test with "fail 7". not sure what that means. My plan is to replace the hard drive and I don't care if I lose my recorded programs. The instructions seems pretty easy. It seems like everyone is going with the WD drives, but my problem is I only have a laptop so I dont think I would be able to disable Intellipark.
> 
> My question is what hard drive would be the best for me to use as a replacement? Why does it seem everyone is going with the WD drives? I want something reliable and also quiet. 1Tb would be nice, but I'd be happy with 500gb.
> 
> Do you think I will have problems with the swap since my original drive is on its way out?


Hi Brian and welcome to the forum. Short answer...if it were me right now I would go with one of these two drives:

1TB Seagate Pipeline

http://www.provantage.com/seagate-st31000322cs~7SEGS1XR.htm

1TB Hitachi Deskstar

http://www.frys.com/product/5947234?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

The Seagate is an A/V dedicated drive (read: quiet) and there are several folks here using them successfully. The Hitachi is a "normal" PC drive but the acoustics can be tuned down to make it even quieter than it already is (see my description above). The first post included detailed instructions for changing the AAM (Auto Acoustic Management) to make them run quieter. It's quite easy to do. Either hard drive should serve you well.

Many (most?) of us have been using various models of the Western Digital GP/green hard drives for several years now. They are quiet, cool running and have had a very good track record. Unfortunately WD decided to modify their GP drives by employing an "Intellipark" feature that allows the drive to save (presumably) even more energy when not in use. Of course TiVo hard drives are in use 24/7 so the "feature" is moot and as you've probably read, these drives no longer play well with TiVo. Users of more recently manufactured WD GP hard drives have begun to disable Intellipark to be able to use them in their TiVo's. It doesn't sound too complicated but I'm not sure if that can be done with a laptop or not.

So for now, I'd consider something other than a WD drive and avoid the disappointment you might have trying to upgrade one using a laptop. BTW, were it not for the new Intellipark "feature" I would highly recommend the WD GP drives. The ones in our TiVo's have been flawless.

Oh, and as long as your TiVo will boot up properly you shouldn't have any problems using its hard drive to image a new one. But I'd do it sooner than later...things rarely get better when it comes to problematic hard drives.

Hope that helps and happy upgrading!


----------



## jeffw_00

why is the EARS better than the EVDS? 

BTW - I don't think an EVDS should be downchecked for intellipark - it's fairly trivial to disable.


----------



## jagsgo

hey guys for anyone who has already disabled the Intellipark "feature." I have a laptop will I have to completely open my laptop in order to connect the sata cable from the WD drive to my motherboard? Or can I use a sata-usb adapter to do it? Opening my laptop to access the motherboard seems pretty complicated isn't it? Is there any other way around it?

thanks,

jason


----------



## BrianM83

jeffw_00 said:


> why is the EARS better than the EVDS?
> 
> BTW - I don't think an EVDS should be downchecked for intellipark - it's fairly trivial to disable.


It seems pretty straight forward, but I only have a laptop, and from what Ive read I wont be able to disable it using a SATA to USB adapter. Correct me if I'm wrong becasue I would rather go with a WD drive, but becasue of this I'm giong to have to go with a Seagate.


----------



## cjv2

BrianM83 said:


> It seems pretty straight forward, but I only have a laptop, and from what Ive read I wont be able to disable it using a SATA to USB adapter. Correct me if I'm wrong becasue I would rather go with a WD drive, but becasue of this I'm giong to have to go with a Seagate.


With the existing CD image being supplied, you are correct. Can't disable it using a USB -> SATA adapter. I tried, no dice. Drive isn't recognized as being there, so the utility can't find it to disable Intellipark.


----------



## zeph55

Does anyone have a url to a list for the latest HDs recommended for Tivo Series HD.
My TIVO model is TCD652160; the original HD is WD1600AVBS, 160GB, July '07.

I had purchased a Seagate LP 1.5TB. Used the Winmfs tools and used the expand option along with restore of the original disk backups.
TIVO works for a few minutes at a time, 1.5 tb recognized. I
Did a 1. Uplug the TiVo for 10-15 seconds
2. Plug in the TiVo and hold the yellow pause button on the remote until the yellow light shows on the front of the TiVo.
3. Release the pause button and type 57.
Now I am stuck in a reboot cycle: 'Almost there. Just a few minutes more.'

Not sure if a "wdidle3 /D" would help.
So for tonight and for family happiness, I am replacing in the machine the original tivo WD HD.

Any recommendations for me?? Perhaps I should get a HD off the recommended list?
Or a Western Digital AV-GP WD15EVDS Hard Drive 1.50 TB - 3.5" - Internal? Or is there hope for the drive I have? I thought I was So Close to success.

The most current list I saw was:
Make Model Size Part # Intended for DVRs Noise (10=Best)
Hitachi Cinemastar 750GB HCS721075KLA330 Yes 7
Hitachi Cinemastar 1000GB HCS721010KLA330 Yes 7
Hitachi Deskstar 1000GB HD31000 No 8*
Hitachi Deskstar 1000GB HDT721010SLA360 No 8*
Hitachi Deskstar 1000GB HDS721010CLA332 No 8*
Hitachi Deskstar 1000GB HDS721010KLA330 No 7*
Seagate DB35 500GB ST3500830SCE Yes 8
Seagate DB35 750GB ST3750640SCE Yes 8
Seagate DB35 750GB ST3750840SCE Yes 8
Seagate Pipeline 500GB ST3500321CS Yes 9
Seagate Pipeline 500GB ST3500312CS Yes 9
Seagate Pipeline 1000GB ST31000533CS Yes 7
Seagate Pipeline 1000GB ST31000322CS Yes 7
Seagate Pipeline 1000GB ST31000424CS Yes 7
WD AV 500GB WD5000AVJS Yes 8
WD AV-GP 1000GB WD10EVCS Yes 10
Brian


----------



## richsadams

zeph55 said:


> Any recommendations for me?? Perhaps I should get a HD off the recommended list?


Hi Brian and welcome to the forum. Yes, you should stick to the recommended list on the first post...end of story.  (See my post a little higher up for my most recent recommendations for another gentleman named Brian):

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7712809#post7712809

BTW, the program to disable Intellipark (wdidle3) is only for Western Digital GP hard drives. (Nothing can be adjusted on a Seagate hard drive.)

FWIW I would return the Seagate 1.5TB drive. I had two that both failed almost instantly and they are notorious for problems (Google search should keep you busy for a while.) Here's my post on my recent experience with them.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7706658#post7706658

Read all of the first post on this thread and it should answer all of your questions. If not, feel free to ask.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## wackymann

Thanks for all the help in this post - I successfully upgraded my >3 year old Seagate DB35 drive (750 GB) to a new WD 1TB EVDS drive last night. I had seen a few signs that the old drive might be on its way out, and I figured the new drives are so cheap that it didn't make sense to NOT upgrade. It took like 7 hours to do the mfscopy (used SATA-USB cases), so I just let it run overnight and put it all back together this morning. Tivo S3 seems happy, and it is reporting 157 hours of space as expected. I haven't tried a soft reboot yet. I was unable to disable intellipark, so I set it to 25.5 sec as suggested in this thread.

Now I have 2 backup Tivo drives LOL I guess I can use the original drive for something else now. But at 250 GB, it's hardly worth installing it anywhere.

One thing I noticed inside the Tivo was the enormous amount of dust collected over the past 3+ years. I vacuumed/blew it all out. I'm guessing it's not a bad idea to do this every couple of years whether you are upgrading or not.


----------



## dlfl

wackymann said:


> ............used SATA-USB cases........................ I was unable to disable intellipark, so I set it to 25.5 sec as suggested in this thread.
> .....................


I'm confused. Based on my reading of posts here:

1. You cannot use widdle3 with USB-SATA adapters.
2. You can use widdle3 with SATA-USB cases.

(The issue being whether the drive is visible to the program.) Isn't a SATA-USB case electronically equivalent to using a USB-SATA adapter?


----------



## jeffw_00

The WD drives have much to recommend them (reliability, price, quiet). I don't see why they shouldn't be 'recommended' for anyone who has a desktop PC. Disabling the intellipark is a trivial extra step. 

Just my $.02.
8-}
/j


----------



## wackymann

dlfl said:


> I'm confused. Based on my reading of posts here:
> 
> 1. You cannot use widdle3 with USB-SATA adapters.
> 2. You can use widdle3 with SATA-USB cases.
> 
> (The issue being whether the drive is visible to the program.) Isn't a SATA-USB case electronically equivalent to using a USB-SATA adapter?


I did the wdidle3 stuff with a direct connection to the SATA connector on the motherboard. I don't have enough SATA power connectors in my PC to have 3 drives going at once, so that's why I switched over to the enclosures for the mfscopy.


----------



## nessus

Greetings fellow TiVotees. I've successfully upgraded my TiVo Series 3 internal drive with a 1.5TB WD15EVDS, giving me 213 HD hours! Many thanks to the maintainers of the upgrading FAQ, to the creators of WinMFS, and to _everyone_ who posts useful information here. There were a couple of snafus, though, and so I figured I'd post them here so as to help alert others who might have similar issues.

I checked and I do *not* have the "soft reboot problem". I.e., I *can* reboot the TiVo from the "Restart or reset system" menu, and it all works great. I know that the drive that I chose is likely to have that problem if the "wdidle3" program is not used to prevent it.

In order to guarantee that I did not have the soft reboot problem, I ran wdidle3 on the drives. This turned out to be an adventure, as I don't have any PC's with a sata controller, and my MacPro at work wouldn't boot off of the wdidle3 ISO posted in this forum. Fortunately, I was able to find a different wdidle3 ISO that uses FreeDOS, rather than MS DOS, and that worked fine on a MacPro. It took me a whole day to get to that point, however!

Another issue that I came across is that wdidle3 wouldn't elimate the Intellipark "feature" of the WD15EVDS. If I tried to remove it, it would set it to 6300ms, which is less than the default of 8000ms! I was able to increase it up to 25,500ms, however, and that seemed to do the job.

I *did* have another serious issue, however. The most recent version of WinMFS has a feature that is not mentioned in the FAQ. When you go to expand the drive, WinMFS will ask you if you want to expand a partition past 1TB. If you say that you do want to do that, then you end up with your TiVo stuck in an infinite reboot loop. I learned this the *hard* way! At 3am last night.... Then I had to spend a couple more hours reading through this forum to find out what I had done wrong. So whoever is in charge of the FAQ might want to update it to warn people of this rather onerous snafu.

But all's well that ends well! And next weekend, I upgrade my girlfriend's TiVo. (Aren't I a swell guy, experimenting on my TiVo first?)

|>ouglas


----------



## MPSAN

BrianM83 said:


> It seems pretty straight forward, but I only have a laptop, and from what Ive read I wont be able to disable it using a SATA to USB adapter. Correct me if I'm wrong becasue I would rather go with a WD drive, but becasue of this I'm giong to have to go with a Seagate.


Brian...the problem is that wdidle3 runs under DOS. That does not mean a dos cmd prompt within XP, but straight DOS. The image that people are getting is a bootable DOS cd with the wdidle3 program included. The problem is that DOS does not support USB, so a SATA to USB adapter will not help. The SATA to USB adapter will work, but for WINmfs. That is because WINmfs is a Windows program, and that will support USB (and the adapter(s)).

The problem with a laptop is a WDidle3 issue as you can not hook the SATA drive to the motherboard. Even if you did open the laptop it may not work as the SATA drives I have seen in a laptop seem to have nonstandard connectors, but yours may not.

If you had the bootable CD with WDidle3 on it, can't you bring it and the new Drive to a friend, family, or work and just hook it up to a SATA port? It should only take a few minutes to just get it done.


----------



## nessus

jeffw_00 said:


> The WD drives have much to recommend them (reliability, price, quiet). I don't see why they shouldn't be 'recommended' for anyone who has a desktop PC. Disabling the intellipark is a trivial extra step.
> 
> Just my $.02.
> 8-}
> /j


Well, hardly trivial if you don't have a PC with SATA connectors, but I agreethe WD drives should be listed as "recommended" in the FAQ, with the caveat that you'll have to have a PC with SATA connectors or a MacPro, and with links to the PC and Mac CD-ROM ISOs. *And* a note saying that you might not be able to remove the Intellipark setting (it may get set to 6300ms instead of getting removed), but that you *can* increase the setting to 25,500ms instead, which appears to be good enough for all intents and purposes.

|>ouglas


----------



## wackymann

nessus said:


> I *did* have another serious issue, however. The most recent version of WinMFS has a feature that is not mentioned in the FAQ. When you go to expand the drive, WinMFS will ask you if you want to expand a partition past 1TB. If you say that you do want to do that, then you end up with your TiVo stuck in an infinite reboot loop. I learned this the *hard* way! At 3am last night.... Then I had to spend a couple more hours reading through this forum to find out what I had done wrong. So whoever is in charge of the FAQ might want to update it to warn people of this rather onerous snafu.
> 
> But all's well that ends well! And next weekend, I upgrade my girlfriend's TiVo. (Aren't I a swell guy, experimenting on my TiVo first?)
> 
> |>ouglas


I believe the FAQ covers this issue already - see step #16 from the internal drive upgrade instructions:


> Is there anything special I need to do for drives larger than 1TB?
> 
> You must use WinMFS to prepare drives larger than 1TB. Older tools such as MFSLive and InstantCake do not support >1TB capacities.
> 
> Under the latest version of WinMFS (v9.3f), the following message is displayed when you attempt to use a drive larger than 1TB:
> 
> Code:
> 
> You are about to create a partition larger than 1TB.
> It's too large for a stock TiVo to support.
> Do you want to limit it to 1TB?
> 
> You must choose 'yes' if you have a TiVo without a hacked PROM chip. This will restrict expansion to 1.1 TB (1.0 TiB) plus the capacity of the original drive, as indicated in FAQ #5 above.
> 
> If you fail to select 'yes', the TiVo will not work; it will reboot every five minutes.
> 
> Note specific discussion of PROM mods and hacks is not permitted on TiVo Community.


----------



## nessus

wackymann said:


> I believe the FAQ covers this issue already - see step #16 from the internal drive upgrade instructions:


Ah, indeed it does! Thanks.

But not in the step-by-step instructions, which is the only part that I printed out and had sitting next to me while doing the upgrade.

Perhaps the step-by-step instructions should either include this caveat directly, or say to see the apropriate FAQ entry.

|>ouglas


----------



## richsadams

nessus said:


> ...In order to guarantee that I did not have the soft reboot problem, I ran wdidle3 on the drives. This turned out to be an adventure, as I don't have any PC's with a sata controller, and my MacPro at work wouldn't boot off of the wdidle3 ISO posted in this forum. Fortunately, I was able to find a different wdidle3 ISO that uses FreeDOS, rather than MS DOS, and that worked fine on a MacPro. It took me a whole day to get to that point, however!


Thanks for the great info Douglas. :up: Can you post a link to the wdidle3 ISO that you used w/your MacPro? I and others here could benefit going forward.



nessus said:


> But not in the step-by-step instructions, which is the only part that I printed out and had sitting next to me while doing the upgrade.
> 
> Perhaps the step-by-step instructions should either include this caveat directly, or say to see the apropriate FAQ entry.


Agreed. :up:


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Brian...the problem is that wdidle3 runs under DOS. That does not mean a dos cmd prompt within XP, but straight DOS. The image that people are getting is a bootable DOS cd with the wdidle3 program included. The problem is that DOS does not support USB, so a SATA to USB adapter will not help. The SATA to USB adapter will work, but for WINmfs. That is because WINmfs is a Windows program, and that will support USB (and the adapter(s)).
> 
> The problem with a laptop is a WDidle3 issue as you can not hook the SATA drive to the motherboard. Even if you did open the laptop it may not work as the SATA drives I have seen in a laptop seem to have nonstandard connectors, but yours may not. .


Thanks for the clarification. Apparently Douglas was able to take care of the Intellipark issue on a WD hard drive with a different ISO on his Mac laptop, but for Wintel laptops, it doesn't look like an option (yet anyway).


----------



## whitepelican

richsadams said:


> Thanks for the great info Douglas. :up: Can you post a link to the wdidle3 ISO that you used w/your MacPro? I and others here could benefit going forward.
> 
> Agreed. :up:


I think the boot CD that I created and posted a few pages back in this thread might be the one referred to. I used the FreeDOS OEM Bootdisk and then added wdidle3.exe to it. I'm not sure of the legality of that disk, but I hope it helps others. Here is the direct link to the wdidle3 ISO download : wdidle3 ISO (FreeDos)


----------



## nessus

whitepelican said:


> I think the boot CD that I created and posted a few pages back in this thread might be the one referred to.


Indeed it is! Thanks for posting about it again, as I would have had no idea where I got it from. I have several wdidle3 ISOs, from various places I can't remember, and that is the only one that would not hang while booting on my MacPro.

|>ouglas


----------



## nessus

richsadams said:


> Thanks for the clarification. Apparently Douglas was able to take care of the Intellipark issue on a WD hard drive with a different ISO on his Mac laptop


Ah, well, not _quite_. A MacPro is a *desktop* Mac with internal SATA connectors. (Actually ones that are _extremely_ easy to get to. Popping disks into and out of a MacPro is a joy to behold.)

|>ouglas


----------



## richsadams

nessus said:


> Ah, well, not _quite_. A MacPro is a *desktop* Mac with internal SATA connectors. (Actually ones that are _extremely_ easy to get to. Popping disks into and out of a MacPro is a joy to behold.)
> 
> |>ouglas


D'oh! My mistake...I was seeing MacPro but thinking "MacBook Pro"  So it appears that you just can't adjust or disable "Intellipark" on WD GP drives with a laptop...at least so far.

BTW, one day my iMac will grow up to be a MacPro if I keep watering it right?


----------



## nessus

richsadams said:


> BTW, one day my iMac will grow up to be a MacPro if I keep watering it right?


Btw, you *can* get to the SATA connector on an iMac, but you have to pull the glass off of the monitor with a big suction cup! And then lift the motherboard out. I'm not sure that I would want to run the iMac with its guts hanging out like that, though.

You can probably do something equivalent with most laptops. I looked at trying to do that with mine, but then I gave up when I looked at the crazy Swiss-watch-like insides of my notebook....

In the end, either of those options would have probably been faster than the route I took to getting wdidle3 working, though.

|>ouglas

P.S. And people have done minor surgery on Mac minis in order to give it an eSata connector. I'm not sure why Apple doesn't provide one, as doing so would give better performance than Firewire or USB.


----------



## hearncl

nessus said:


> Ah, well, not _quite_. A MacPro is a *desktop* Mac with internal SATA connectors. (Actually ones that are _extremely_ easy to get to. Popping disks into and out of a MacPro is a joy to behold.)


Second that endorsement of the MacPro. I used mine about 3 months ago to upgrade both a TiVoHD and a Series3 with no problems (WD10EVVS--20 Sept. date--in the HD and Seagate ST31000322CS in the S3). Although I haven't yet seen the soft boot problem, I'd like to have the FreeDOS wdidle3 CD available in case a problem crops up with the WD drive. I'll try to download it from whitepelican's link.

Nessus, is booting from this CD just a matter of putting it in the MacPro and setting it as a startup disc? (I run WinMFS on Windows XP under Boot Camp.) Any tricks to getting wdidle3 to recognize the correct hard drive in the MacPro?


----------



## nessus

hearncl said:


> Nessus, is booting from this CD just a matter of putting it in the MacPro and setting it as a startup disc? (I run WinMFS on Windows XP under Boot Camp.) Any tricks to getting wdidle3 to recognize the correct hard drive in the MacPro?


To boot from the CD, put the CD into the CD-ROM drive *before* you power it down. Then reboot the Mac, and as soon as the Mac has shutdown, hold down the Option key, and keep it held down for a minute or two, until you see the display which lets you pick the boot drive. After _another_ minute or so, the CD-ROM will appear, although it will be labeled "Windows". Select the CD-ROM with the arrow keys and press Enter.

You then don't have to do anything special to boot into FreeDOS. It just happens automatically. (There _is_ some message while FreeDOS is booting to type Enter within the next 30 seconds. You _may_ have to do that.)

Then you will have a DOS prompt and wdidle3 will be right there. You don't have to do anything to have wdidle3 recognize the drive. It automatically recognizes all WD drives.

|>ouglas


----------



## richsadams

nessus said:


> Btw, you *can* get to the SATA connector on an iMac, but you have to pull the glass off of the monitor with a big suction cup!


 Precisely why I keep a PC I built a while back around.  


nessus said:


> P.S. And people have done minor surgery on Mac minis in order to give it an eSata connector. I'm not sure why Apple doesn't provide one, as doing so would give better performance than Firewire or USB.


What Jobs has against eSATA is beyond me.


----------



## bigd2008

First time poster here! I'll be upgrading my TivoHD I received for Xmas straight out of the box with the WD10EVDS drive. I ordered it from Amazon on Jan 6th and received it today with a manufacture date of Oct 10, 2009. Looks like pre-November EVDS drives are still being shipped. Upgrading my Series 2 was a headache after the original drive had failed so I'd like to upgrade now and get a head start on an easy recovery solution. Is there any trouble I may run into by perfoming the upgrade before ever powering the unit on?


----------



## whitepelican

bigd2008 said:


> First time poster here! I'll be upgrading my TivoHD I received for Xmas straight out of the box with the WD10EVDS drive. I ordered it from Amazon on Jan 6th and received it today with a manufacture date of Oct 10, 2009. Looks like pre-November EVDS drives are still being shipped. Upgrading my Series 2 was a headache after the original drive had failed so I'd like to upgrade now and get a head start on an easy recovery solution. Is there any trouble I may run into by perfoming the upgrade before ever powering the unit on?


Yes. Turn it on and set it up to make sure it works. If it's a new box, you'll be voiding the warranty once you open it up, so you should make sure it works first. I would then have it force a few connections to the Tivo mothership to upgrade to the latest software. After doing that and being sure it works OK, then you can go ahead with the disk upgrade.


----------



## MPSAN

Most of us feel that you should at least power up the NEW TiVoHD and get it running first. That means making sure that all is OK and that the Cable Cards work (if you use them). However, the biggest thing is to get the new software by forcing several connections first. In that way, the backup and image from the original drive will already be configured. I waited a few weeks to be sure all was working OK before I did the upgrade.


----------



## backyard

Like everyone, my TiVo HD 1TB uprade is a long story but I will spare the details. Used a laptop/sata-USB adaptor to backup from 160 GB. After reading this forum, Spike's forum and Ross Walker's forum until my head ached and eyes were sore and my stomach churned about the intellipark issue I probably did a stupid thing - I got a WD10EARS from Newegg hoping for plug'n play. Now I hear (no pun) not only is intellipark an issue but there is some kind of misalignment thing that can cause problems. Here's my question: does anyone think the WD10EARS will work? Is the Hitacchi Deskstar refered to above @$69 from Frys a plug'n play solution?

All of the advice here has been great and I thank all who have contributed.

Ray.


----------



## Spenner

And save your original drive in case you ever have a problem with the new one. My new drive had problems after about 4 months, thank goodness I was able to swap the original back in and have a working Tivo so I didn't miss any shows while diagnosing the problem drive.


----------



## dlfl

wackymann said:


> I did the wdidle3 stuff with a direct connection to the SATA connector on the motherboard. I don't have enough SATA power connectors in my PC to have 3 drives going at once, so that's why I switched over to the enclosures for the mfscopy.


Ah so! Doesn't matter ... I'm sure I'll have a new PC with SATA connectors by the time I do another TiVo upgrade. Thanks for the explanation.


----------



## cjv2

backyard said:


> I got a WD10EARS from Newegg hoping for plug'n play. Now I hear (no pun) not only is intellipark an issue but there is some kind of misalignment thing that can cause problems.


"some kind of misalignment thing?" Details, por favor...


----------



## whitepelican

cjv2 said:


> "some kind of misalignment thing?" Details, por favor...


I think the "misalignment thing" is a Windows problem only, having to do with the 4K sectors of these new drives. I wouldn't think it would be an issue with a Tivo, but it would be nice to get some firsthand reports.

See here for the Windows XP misalignment problem with these 4K sector drives.


----------



## cjv2

whitepelican said:


> See here for the Windows XP misalignment problem with these 4K sector drives.


D'oh!

That said, to backyard: Yeah, sounds like a Windows thing. From whitepelican's link: _"Notably, Linux and Mac OS X are not affected by this issue. Western Digital has tested both of these operating systems, and officially classifies them as not-affected."_

Tivo, I believe, lives in Linuxland, and WinMFS is intended to respect/emulate the data structures that Tivo uses.

Didn't someone in here say they set up some EARS without issue?


----------



## backyard

Thanks for the responses. It would be great to know if someone had success and there was no intellipark problem.

This is from Spike on the MFSlive.org forum. The EARS note was added a few days ago.

Recommended SATA drives for TiVo S3, TiVo HD, TiVo HDXL
by spike &#187; Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:54 pm 

The following drives seem to work well with Tivo S3 (TCD648250B), Tivo HD (TCD652160) or Tivo HDXL (TCD658000).

Western Digital AV-GP (WD10EVDS) Best choice
Seagate Pipeline HD 5900 RPM (ST31000322CS)
Seagate Pipeline HD 7200 RPM (ST31000533CS)
Western Digital AV-GP (WD10EVCS) EOL
Western Digital AV-GP (WD10EVVS) EOL 
Seagate Barracuda LP 5900 RPM (ST31000520AS) Bit loud so don't want it in your bedroom


Drives to Avoid for TiVo Series 3:
Western Digital GP (WD10EACS) *soft reboot problem on S3 but works on THD
Western Digital (WD10EADS) *soft reboot problem on S3 but works on THD


Stay Away from WD "EARS" Drives
WD10EARS or "EARS" drives have 4KB physical sector aka. Advanced Format.
Drives currenlty have 512 Byte physical sector and TiVo File System is designed with that in mind.
So with the 4K sectors, partitions will be misaligned and MFS (TiVo File System) read/write will be misaligned...
I would think this will cause major slow down, so you should stay away from them until further studies have been conducted on TiVo.
Stay tuned....


----------



## cjv2

backyard said:


> This is from Spike on the MFSlive.org forum...
> 
> Drives to Avoid for TiVo Series 3:
> Western Digital (WD10EADS) *soft reboot problem on S3 but works on THD


backyard, thanks for the cross-post from MFSLive on the alignment bit.

I thought I would highlight the above item though. Certain models of the WD10EADS *do* have the soft reboot problem on a TivoHD (though presumably subject to correction by "fixing Intellipark.")

I got one of those EADS drives for my TivoHD and had to take it back because I was running a laptop USB -> SATA adapter rather than a motherboard SATA plug, and consequently could not get the WD utility to see the drive and turn Intellipark off. In fact, I couldn't get the thing to boot, period. Stuck at "Welcome! Powering Up."

There was a great deal of discussion about the EADS and apparent recent revisions to it by WD in this thread. It might be worth passing the discussion here on to Spike if you are so inclined.


----------



## camm91

To use wdidle3 does my drive need to have a drive letter? At present my wd10evds is plugged in and recognised through bios etc, and, winmfs can see it. Do I need to mount it or whatever to give it a drive letter?

I have the boot cd working, but, I am unsure what to do from there? It went to some wierd a: (I don't have an a and just entering the command didnt work.


----------



## MPSAN

camm91 said:


> To use wdidle3 does my drive need to have a drive letter? At present my wd10evds is plugged in and recognised through bios etc, and, winmfs can see it. Do I need to mount it or whatever to give it a drive letter?
> 
> I have the boot cd working, but, I am unsure what to do from there? It went to some wierd a: (I don't have an a and just entering the command didnt work.


Once you get the A: prompt, try R: or S: and do a DIR and see if wdidle3.exe shows up. If so enter it to run the utility. This is NOT from within Windows and is from the boot cd that boots into DOS.


----------



## camm91

MPSAN said:


> Once you get the A: prompt, try R: or S: and do a DIR and see if wdidle3.exe shows up. If so enter it to run the utility. This is NOT from within Windows and is from the boot cd that boots into DOS.


Yes, I am using the boot cd that boots into dos.

It gives a msg, Driver version v340
Device Name: Banana
No drives found, Aborting installation...

Then goes to a:

I just retried twice after your msg, tried drives a->z. I can get it to change between drives a and b, neither of which contain the program. no other drives are recognised.

Any ideas? Thanks in advance.


----------



## camm91

Found this thread over here tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784&page=145 (removed the www so that I can post, wouldnt let me post links as < 5 posts) which the person had the same problem as me. I grabbed all the files from the ultimate bootable cd download and chucked the wdidle3 on it as well.

This doesnt work as a boot cd now :/

Does anyone see what is wrong? Can assist me?


----------



## richsadams

bigd2008 said:


> First time poster here! I'll be upgrading my TivoHD I received for Xmas straight out of the box with the WD10EVDS drive. I ordered it from Amazon on Jan 6th and received it today with a manufacture date of Oct 10, 2009. Looks like pre-November EVDS drives are still being shipped. Upgrading my Series 2 was a headache after the original drive had failed so I'd like to upgrade now and get a head start on an easy recovery solution. Is there any trouble I may run into by perfoming the upgrade before ever powering the unit on?


Agree with everyone else...get your new TiVo set up and running before doing anything to it. I'd give it a solid 30 days before upgrading. Lucky drive order...let us know if it performs a menu restart.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## yukit

backyard said:


> Thanks for the responses. It would be great to know if someone had success and there was no intellipark problem.
> 
> This is from Spike on the MFSlive.org forum. The EARS note was added a few days ago.
> 
> Recommended SATA drives for TiVo S3, TiVo HD, TiVo HDXL
> by spike » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:54 pm
> ...
> Stay Away from WD "EARS" Drives
> WD10EARS or "EARS" drives have 4KB physical sector aka. Advanced Format.
> Drives currenlty have 512 Byte physical sector and TiVo File System is designed with that in mind.
> So with the 4K sectors, partitions will be misaligned and MFS (TiVo File System) read/write will be misaligned...
> I would think this will cause major slow down, so you should stay away from them until further studies have been conducted on TiVo.
> Stay tuned....


Thanks for posting this info. It is good to hear directly from spike regarding the 4k sector issue on EARS drives.

I think there is a jumper on the drive to force the sector offset trick used on WinXP. I wonder if that would make the drive to work with Tivo FS, but it may fool WinMFS.

BTW, I am using Hitachi 2TB (HD32000 IDK/7K) drive with an HDXL. Upgraded about a week ago, working very well so far.


----------



## mellenfan

What drive should I buy to install in my Tivo HD? I have seen so many issues with this drive and that drive that I am not sure what to use!

I have the cake software and can handle any iso buring to CD that is needed to apply DOS scripts, etc. 

Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

mellenfan said:


> What drive should I buy to install in my Tivo HD? I have seen so many issues with this drive and that drive that I am not sure what to use!
> 
> I have the cake software and can handle any iso buring to CD that is needed to apply DOS scripts, etc.
> 
> Thanks!


My two or three cents:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7712809#post7712809

If you have a PC and are comfortable with doing a little extra work, any of the Western Digital drives listed in the first post would be fine as well.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## drhankz

richsadams said:


> My two or three cents:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7712809#post7712809
> 
> If you have a PC and are comfortable with doing a little extra work, any of the Western Digital drives listed in the first post would be fine as well.
> 
> Happy upgrading!


Hi Rich - I like your Seagate recommendation.

If I were upgrading mine today - that is the one I would go with.

KNOCK on wood my 1 TB Internal TiVo just reached its 2nd Birthday this month :up:


----------



## wackymann

bigd2008 said:


> First time poster here! I'll be upgrading my TivoHD I received for Xmas straight out of the box with the WD10EVDS drive. I ordered it from Amazon on Jan 6th and received it today with a manufacture date of Oct 10, 2009. Looks like pre-November EVDS drives are still being shipped. Upgrading my Series 2 was a headache after the original drive had failed so I'd like to upgrade now and get a head start on an easy recovery solution. Is there any trouble I may run into by perfoming the upgrade before ever powering the unit on?


You got lucky - I ordered one from Amazon around the same time and it came with a manufacture date of Dec 7. Did you order directly from Amazon, or one of its affiliates? I ordered mine directly from Amazon so I could get their free 2-day shipping. There was a slightly cheaper option that was from one of their affiliates. Maybe they are shipping the older drives? If so, that would be good to know.


----------



## bigd2008

wackymann said:


> You got lucky - I ordered one from Amazon around the same time and it came with a manufacture date of Dec 7. Did you order directly from Amazon, or one of its affiliates?


Directly from Amazon. A friend also ordered the same drive direct from Amazon two days after I placed my order and he received the Oct 10th drive too. Did his TivoHD last night with no softboot (or other) problems.

Despite the advice to first power on MY unit and wait a few weeks before upgrading, I didn't. *sigh*  I used MFSLive v1.4. and had trouble mounting a NTFS file system to save the backup. I used a FAT32 formatted flash stick instead. Then, my backup file was reaching 2GB and failing. The uncompressed size was close to 3,330MB. I think it was backing up the 5 "get started" recordings. Then I remembered "Hey, people recommended not doing this..." and powered my unit on through the guided setup. Perm deleted the recordings which were about 1.3GB (according to record info). Tried it all over again and the uncompressed backup size was now 1390MB leaving me with a 527MB file (which fits on fat32)  What gives? Anyone know why the image fresh from the box is larger? Seems like it is more than just recordings, but maybe that's all it is.


----------



## MPSAN

camm91 said:


> Found this thread over here tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784&page=145 (removed the www so that I can post, wouldnt let me post links as < 5 posts) which the person had the same problem as me. I grabbed all the files from the ultimate bootable cd download and chucked the wdidle3 on it as well.
> 
> This doesnt work as a boot cd now :/
> 
> Does anyone see what is wrong? Can assist me?


Well, the DOS will see IDE drives, and since the driver will not install, I can just assume that your BIOS does not have the SATA drives configured for IDE. That means no RAID or other settings. After the wdidle3 run just change the BIOS back to what it was. Also, make sure your CD Drive is an IDE as well!


----------



## adamwsh

richsadams said:


> My two or three cents:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7712809#post7712809
> 
> If you have a PC and are comfortable with doing a little extra work, any of the Western Digital drives listed in the first post would be fine as well.
> 
> Happy upgrading!


I just purchased the Segate Pipeline ST31000533CS from ProVantage (cheapest price) on your recommendation. Hope it works well! I hope it comes soon. I'm tired of having only 20 hours of space!


----------



## whitepelican

adamwsh said:


> I just purchased the Segate Pipeline ST31000533CS from ProVantage (cheapest price) on your recommendation. Hope it works well! I hope it comes soon. I'm tired of having only 20 hours of space!


Good luck. I hope for your sake it is a lot less noisy than the Seagate ST31500541AS drive that I have.


----------



## moxie1617

whitepelican said:


> Good luck. I hope for your sake it is a lot less noisy than the Seagate ST31500541AS drive that I have.


I haven't looked at the specs in over a year but the CS drives had been a lot quieter than the AS and NS series. I have both in Antec cases, the CS for the Tivo and the AS for backups. Night and day difference.


----------



## jeffw_00

I ordered from Amazon 3 weeks ago and got a 10/15 EVDS drive. It probably matters, in part, which warehouse they ship from. If you can do the wdidle thing it doesn't matter though.


----------



## adamwsh

whitepelican said:


> Good luck. I hope for your sake it is a lot less noisy than the Seagate ST31500541AS drive that I have.


Well, it is a 7 out of 10 (10 being best) on the noise level chart at the top of this thread. Also, even the manufacturer claims it is meant for DVR use with low noise, high operating temp, etc.

I'll post my results when I'm done.


----------



## pl1

adamwsh said:


> I just purchased the Segate Pipeline ST31000533CS from ProVantage (cheapest price) on your recommendation. Hope it works well! I hope it comes soon. I'm tired of having only 20 hours of space!


I just bought one of the Seagates myself off of Ebay for $85 shipped. We'll see how the sound is. They are designed for DVRs with a 3 year warranty.

Seagate Pipeline HD .2 1TB 1 TB SATA ST31000322CS


----------



## pl1

adamwsh said:


> Well, it is a 7 out of 10 (10 being best) on the noise level chart at the top of this thread. Also, even the manufacturer claims it is meant for DVR use with low noise, high operating temp, etc.
> I'll post my results when I'm done.


One reason I was hesitant about buying the Seagate was that there are no noise level adjustments that can be made. The reason I'm OK with it if it is a little noisy is that it is in my livingroom. The old Maxtor drives I used to use were terribly loud during head seeks. The WD drives are virtually silent.


----------



## zanyman

Just found the 1TB Hitachi HD31000 at my local Microcenter for $70 this weekend. The upgrade to my TivoHD was quick and painless, thanks to these excellent recommendations and instructions. Thanks!!


----------



## adamwsh

adamwsh said:


> I just purchased the Segate Pipeline ST31000533CS from ProVantage (cheapest price) on your recommendation. Hope it works well! I hope it comes soon. I'm tired of having only 20 hours of space!


So after seeing that ProVantage had over 400 in stock (according to their website) I placed the order. I just got an email saying the no longer have them available and won't until maybe 1/22. So I canceled the order and found it on PCRush.com (never heard of them before) for a couple bucks more. I called them first to ask if they in fact have them ready to ship and the guy said yes. So I placed the order. We'll see what happens.


----------



## dgarrick

cjv2 said:


> D'oh!
> Didn't someone in here say they set up some EARS without issue?


Yes, I just did a full upgrade over last weekend of my HD Tivo's internal and external drives. For the drives I used:

WD10EARS 1TB - internal
Seagate ST3100341AS 1.5TB in an Antec MX-1 eSata enclosure

All went smooth for me except the fact I am a Mac guy and had to use my work PC laptop and a SATA-to-USB connector to perform the upgrade. I did the "preserve settings but not recordings" upgrade for the internal EARS drive. That worked fine.

The only step that was difficult for me was finding a SATA motherboard connection (had a vacant PC at work for this) to perform the WD Intellipark disable step with wdidle3. Note: The USB-to-SATA connector WILL NOT work for this step as the wdidle3 just hangs in DOS when the command is entered from the R:> drive. Apparently the EARS drives DO have this feature enabled as my Tivo was struck on the power up before I did the wdidle3.

As far as any drive noise, I do not hear any coming from the EARS. The total capacity now reads in the 300's HD and 2900+ SD.

This wasn't a completely seamless upgrade due to my preference for Mac but fairly painless looking back on the process.


----------



## backyard

dg,

I'm all EARS.

Thanks for posting the EARS results. I haven't decided wether to return mine or go for the install. I am sata-usb constrained as well and curious about the 4K misalignment potential (see above). Please drop a note here if you notice any performance issues. I have a week or so to decide. Thanks again.
Backyard.


----------



## BrianM83

While I have my s3 TiVo open, is there any thing else I can do to enhance my TiVo experience? Something that doesn't require soldering?


----------



## drhankz

BrianM83 said:


> Something that doesn't require soldering?


What improvement requires soldering - I need that one


----------



## richsadams

drhankz said:


> What improvement requires soldering - I need that one


The optional TiVo convenience hack.


----------



## adamwsh

richsadams said:


> The optional TiVo convenience hack.


My firewall is blocking this pic. What is it?


----------



## drhankz

richsadams said:


> The optional TiVo convenience hack.


Thanks Rich - but I can't use that one - My TiVo is RACK mounted.


----------



## whitepelican

adamwsh said:


> My firewall is blocking this pic. What is it?


It's a gorgeous bikini model straddling a TivoHD. You're really missing out.


----------



## adamwsh

whitepelican said:


> It's a gorgeous bikini model straddling a TivoHD. You're really missing out.


Figures.


----------



## drhankz

adamwsh said:


> Figures.


Ya - you need a NEW Bikini Friendly Firewall :up:


----------



## dgarrick

backyard said:


> dg,
> curious about the 4K misalignment potential (see above). Please drop a note here if you notice any performance issues. I have a week or so to decide. Thanks again.
> Backyard.


I've had the upgraded HD Tivo running for 5 days now and have not noticed any performance or noise issues. NPL looks fine. Transfers from other HD Tivo OK. pyTivo OK.

I'm not sure what the 4k misalignment fuss is about? Will I be watching The Daily Show and Sean Hannity bleeds in or something?

I would say go for it!


----------



## kviri

Several months ago, I bought a WD10EADS, put it in an external enclosure, archived some large disk images and video files to it... and haven't touched it (or powered it on) since, so it's practically unused. Given the current price of 2GB drives (and the fact that I can't use a >1TB drive as an upgrade to my unit), I'm thinking I might repurpose it as an upgrade drive for my TiVo HD, and buy a larger drive to use in the enclosure for backups.

My question: The WD10EADS has a manufacture date of 26 FEB 2009, and the full model number on the sticker is WD10EADS-00L5B1. Am I correct in assuming that I don't need to worry about IntelliPark at all? The FAQ would seem to indicate so, but I want to verify before I muck around in my (still factory stock) TiVo HD.


----------



## bkdtv

kviri said:


> My question: The WD10EADS has a manufacture date of 26 FEB 2009, and the full model number on the sticker is WD10EADS-00L5B1. Am I correct in assuming that I don't need to worry about IntelliPark at all?


Yes.


----------



## backyard

I'm not sure what the 4k misalignment fuss is about? Will I be watching The Daily Show and Sean Hannity bleeds in or something?

I would say go for it![/QUOTE]

Ok, I'll go for it. But if Olberman morfs to Limbaugh I'm blaming you!


----------



## MPSAN

backyard said:


> I'm not sure what the 4k misalignment fuss is about? Will I be watching The Daily Show and Sean Hannity bleeds in or something?
> 
> I would say go for it!





> Ok, I'll go for it. But if Olberman morfs to Limbaugh I'm blaming you!


Would it be OK if Leno came through? Actually, how would you know? I mean he could be on any show.


----------



## jza80

Is that indicator gauge on the S3 image posted a few back on the "convenience hack" related to disk capacity? If so, how do I enable it on my S3??


----------



## dlfl

backyard said:


> .........Ok, I'll go for it. But if Olberman morfs to Limbaugh I'm blaming you!


If that happens you should be thankful. And also it would be a technological miracle since Rush isn't on TV at all.


----------



## S3-2501

I'm just here to add my experience to this extremely valuable thread.

I received a Seagate Pipeline 1TB drive that I ordered from Provantage, and successfully used WinMFS to backup my old TivoHD drive and then used the MFSCopy feature to copy everything from the old drive to the new Seagate drive. I put my old drive in a SATA to USB/ESATA enclosure, and connected the Seagate drive using a simple SATA to USB converter. Everything was done on my Vista x64 notebook.

As of this morning, everything seems to have gone smoothly, and although it's only been a little less than two days, so far the noise level seems about the same as the TivoHD's original drive. 

If anyone's interested, I used an online date code converter to determine that the drive I received was manufactured in December, so it's a recent drive that hopefully has the latest firmware. According to Seagate's website, the warranty on it is good through December 2012.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread, and especially to the people responsible for making the WinMFS program! It made the process very straight-forward and pain-free. It's wonderful that such resources are available to allow us all to continue to get the most out of our Tivos despite the fact that Tivo itself offers such limited hardware support for their products.


----------



## pl1

S3-2501 said:


> It's wonderful that such resources are available to allow us all to continue to get the most out of our Tivos despite the fact that Tivo itself offers such limited hardware support for their products.


Some of us are thankful that TiVo turns a blind eye towards us upgrading our machines. I know I am. It would be easy for them to protect us from upgrading our own drives, especially with lifetime service. That's what probably makes TiVo users so loyal.


----------



## jeffw_00

deifintely some truth to that, and don't blame TiVo. If they could find a way to let us into the box without exposing themselves to liability if somebody doesn't disconnect from the power they probably would. I know they could shield the supply or use some other sort of interlock but those solutions cost money. 

What I don't understand, honestly, is why TiVo doesn't just increase the drive size themselves as cost comes down. I'm surprised they can -find- 160GB drives these days, and they can't be any cheaper than, say 500GB.


----------



## lew

jeffw_00 said:


> What I don't understand, honestly, is why TiVo doesn't just increase the drive size themselves as cost comes down. I'm surprised they can -find- 160GB drives these days, and they can't be any cheaper than, say 500GB.


Makes sense. Maybe not. Any customer that purchased a tivo within 30 days will return and get the model with the larger hard drive. What does tivo do with existing inventory? Dump them below cost? What about units stocked by retailers? How do they handle complaints from customers that bought a 160GB unit 45 days ago?

WD stops making 160GB drives? My guess is WD (or tivo) would format a 500GB drive to 160GB rather then address those issues.


----------



## jza80

When performing the drive copy process in Winmfs, how are the 2 drives identified? I mean, if there is no drive letter then how do you know which drive is the original Tivo drive and which is the new drive? Does a serial number or drive size indicator show on Winmfs? This will be in Vista 64 if it matters, desktop connecting to the motherboard directly.
Thanks!


----------



## jeffw_00

you make good points lew, but I'm sure Apple would disagree 8-}. They could at least increment the model # every year (say in september) and ship the 'new' model (otherwise same as the old one) with a larger drive...

/j


----------



## MPSAN

lew said:


> Makes sense. Maybe not. Any customer that purchased a tivo within 30 days will return and get the model with the larger hard drive. What does tivo do with existing inventory? Dump them below cost? What about units stocked by retailers? How do they handle complaints from customers that bought a 160GB unit 45 days ago?
> 
> WD stops making 160GB drives? My guess is WD (or tivo) would format a 500GB drive to 160GB rather then address those issues.


+1

Also, as it is, people are always waiting for the new unit to come out. I wonder if some are still waiting 'til they "Perfect" Color TV.

If people KNEW that a new THD would be out every year then just when is a good time to buy?


----------



## whitepelican

jza80 said:


> When performing the drive copy process in Winmfs, how are the 2 drives drives identified? I mean, if there is no drive letter then how do you know which drive is the original Tivo drive and which is the new drive? Does a serial number or drive size indicator show on Winmfs? This will be in Vista 64 if it matters, desktop connecting to the motherboard directly.
> Thanks!


WinMFS makes it pretty obvious. It will recognize a Tivo drive, tell you the model # and size of the drive, etc. It will also recognize a blank drive and give you the info on it. You can see a few screenshots over at mfslive.org.

http://mfslive.org/winmfs/images/select_drive.jpg


----------



## jza80

whitepelican said:


> WinMFS makes it pretty obvious. It will recognize a Tivo drive, tell you the model # and size of the drive, etc. It will also recognize a blank drive and give you the info on it. You can see a few screenshots over at mfslive.org.
> 
> http://mfslive.org/winmfs/images/select_drive.jpg


Thanks. Both of my drives have Tivo images on them but if type and size are displayed then it will be no problem.


----------



## dmartin5454

I ordered a WD15EVDS (1.5T) drive to upgrade my internal disk in my Tivo
HD. (I understand I'll only get 1TB + 160GB.) I was hoping I could use
my HP laptop that has a combo eSATA/USB port to run wdidle3 to avoid the
soft reboot problem. Like another poster, I burned the image to CD, but
when I boot from the CD I got the messages:

CD-ROM Device Driver for IDE (Four Channels Supported)
Driver Version : V340
Device Name : BANANA
No drives found, aborting installation

Device driver not found: 'BANANA'
No valid CDROM device drives selected.

My CD-ROM is actually SCSI, not EIDE, SATA, nor USB:
HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-T50N SCSI CdRom device.

If this ISO image won't work with my CD, does anyone have any suggestions
for creating a boot image that would support it?


----------



## S3-2501

pl1 said:


> Some of us are thankful that TiVo turns a blind eye towards us upgrading our machines. I know I am. It would be easy for them to protect us from upgrading our own drives, especially with lifetime service. That's what probably makes TiVo users so loyal.


 I wish Tivo would offer a longer warranty on their products, with the ability to send in a Tivo to have them replace or upgrade a drive, maintaining all programs and settings that they can. Basically, I wish they would offer official versions of the services that Weaknees and DVRupgrade offer. If the prices and coverage were reasonable, I'd be happy to pay Tivo to upgrade a drive or to replace a failed one. Instead, the only option in or out of warranty is to exchange the whole unit for a refurb and start from scratch.

The whole reason I ended up upgrading the drive in my TivoHD is because my official WD expander failed shortly after its way too short 1 year warranty, and it just made more sense financially to upgrade rather than buy another substandard expander with a sub-par warranty. I'd rather go with an officially supported option, but I tried that with the expander and it failed. Thankfully, the community of Tivo users here and elsewhere on the net has found and shared ways to self-support their Tivos in the ways that Tivo will not.


----------



## sweez

mrbeefhead said:


> sweez, thank you VERY MUCH for sharing your experience. may I ask how long it took to back up your old EADS? i'm going to replace my EADS but am really not looking forward to losing all of my recordings.


sorry for the delay in responding... just checked the site.

anyway, the backup took about 10 minutes. the backup file size ended up being less than 500mb. the drive had no recordings. i watched all the programs and purged the deleted programs folder.


----------



## pl1

S3-2501 said:


> I wish Tivo would offer a longer warranty on their products, with the ability to send in a Tivo to have them replace or upgrade a drive, maintaining all programs and settings that they can. Basically, I wish they would offer official versions of the services that Weaknees and DVRupgrade offer. If the prices and coverage were reasonable, I'd be happy to pay Tivo to upgrade a drive or to replace a failed one. Instead, the only option in or out of warranty is to exchange the whole unit for a refurb and start from scratch.
> 
> The whole reason I ended up upgrading the drive in my TivoHD is because my official WD expander failed shortly after its way too short 1 year warranty, and it just made more sense financially to upgrade rather than buy another substandard expander with a sub-par warranty. I'd rather go with an officially supported option, but I tried that with the expander and it failed. Thankfully, the community of Tivo users here and elsewhere on the net has found and shared ways to self-support their Tivos in the ways that Tivo will not.


Not a bad idea, and a good way for Tivo to get some additional income. I agree with you.


----------



## bigd2008

S3-2501 said:


> I wish Tivo would offer a longer warranty on their products, with the ability to send in a Tivo to have them replace or upgrade a drive, maintaining all programs and settings that they can.


Or at least 1 year parts AND labor instead of this 90 days stuff. I'm going to take a stabb in the dark and guess that the majority of first year failures are the HDD. My Series 2 took a dive at 11mos. Was it covered? Yes. Did I go through the hassel? No. Instead I upgraded to a larger 500GB for less than what it would cost me to receive another 80GB under warranty. It would be nice if they could upgrade for you, but hey, if Tivo did it for you, we wouldn't have this wonderful FAQ...


----------



## Aventinus22

I have finally decided to upgrade my Tivo HD as I am having lots of problems with pixelation, freezing, partial recordings, sluggish remote, and rebooting. My Tivo HD has the official 500gb MyDVR Expander attached. When I try to unmarry the external drive, I get the External Storage Missing screen, then the Warning screen as expected, but then it keeps rebooting to the same screens. I can' t get past this point. Should I remove the drive anyway?


----------



## richsadams

drhankz said:


> Thanks Rich - but I can't use that one - My TiVo is RACK mounted.


Holy crap!  Does NASA know that some of their equipment is missing?!


----------



## richsadams

Aventinus22 said:


> I have finally decided to upgrade my Tivo HD as I am having lots of problems with pixelation, freezing, partial recordings, sluggish remote, and rebooting. My Tivo HD has the official 500gb MyDVR Expander attached. When I try to unmarry the external drive, I get the External Storage Missing screen, then the Warning screen as expected, but then it keeps rebooting to the same screens. I can' t get past this point. Should I remove the drive anyway?


Are you following these steps (exactly)?

1. Power off TiVo by disconnecting the AC power cord.
2. Turn off the eSATA drive.
3. Disconnect the AC adapter cord and eSATA cable from the eSATA drive.
4. Disconnect the eSATA cable from TiVo.
5. Power on TiVo by reattaching the AC power cord.
6. Follow the on-screen instructions to permanently divorce the eSATA drive.

If you missed any steps or got something out of order I would reconnect the drive and try again.


----------



## richsadams

S3-2501 said:


> I received a Seagate Pipeline 1TB drive that I ordered from Provantage, and successfully used WinMFS to backup my old TivoHD drive and then used the MFSCopy feature to copy everything from the old drive to the new Seagate drive.


Glad to hear that the newer Seagate Pipeline models are working well. Thanks for the post and enjoy! :up:


----------



## lew

jeffw_00 said:


> you make good points lew, but I'm sure Apple would disagree 8-}. They could at least increment the model # every year (say in september) and ship the 'new' model (otherwise same as the old one) with a larger drive...
> 
> /j


Didn't Apple have customer "issues" when they lowered the price/increased the memory of the I-Phone? Tivo needs to "move" inventory more then a month to limit the number of customers who might return.



MPSAN said:


> +1
> 
> Also, as it is, people are always waiting for the new unit to come out. I wonder if some are still waiting 'til they "Perfect" Color TV.
> 
> If people KNEW that a new THD would be out every year then just when is a good time to buy?


Some people would take advantage of "closeout" pricing and buy the old model. Others would wait a month and get the newer model.


----------



## Aventinus22

richsadams said:


> Are you following these steps (exactly)?
> 
> 1. Power off TiVo by disconnecting the AC power cord.
> 2. Turn off the eSATA drive.
> 3. Disconnect the AC adapter cord and eSATA cable from the eSATA drive.
> 4. Disconnect the eSATA cable from TiVo.
> 5. Power on TiVo by reattaching the AC power cord.
> 6. Follow the on-screen instructions to permanently divorce the eSATA drive.
> 
> If you missed any steps or got something out of order I would reconnect the drive and try again.


That's exactly what I did.

After giving the thumbs down to the Warning screen, I get the Removing external storage. This will take a while screen. Then about 15 seconds later, it reboots, eventually coming back to the External Storage Missing screen again.

Then I tried reconnecting the external drive. It gets to the green screen and reboots about 15 seconds later, then repeats.


----------



## richsadams

Aventinus22 said:


> That's exactly what I did.
> 
> After giving the thumbs down to the Warning screen, I get the Removing external storage. This will take a while screen. Then about 15 seconds later, it reboots, eventually coming back to the External Storage Missing screen again.
> 
> Then I tried reconnecting the external drive. It gets to the green screen and reboots about 15 seconds later, then repeats.


Hmmm...sounds like there is some data corruption on the internal hard drive. You could try running TiVo's built-in diagnostics called "Kickstarts", KS57 or KS58 may be able to repair the problem. KS54 will run a test on the drive.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

I would try to repair the drive before you image a new one to avoid anything being carried over. If that doesn't work I would go ahead and image a new drive following the instructions on the first post. All may go well and that will be that. If not you may have to use Instant Cake for a clean image.

http://www.dvrupgrade.com/dvr/stores/1/instantcake.cfm

Hope that helps!


----------



## Aventinus22

richsadams said:


> Hmmm...sounds like there is some data corruption on the internal hard drive. You could try running TiVo's built-in diagnostics called "Kickstarts", KS57 or KS58 may be able to repair the problem. KS54 will run a test on the drive.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2
> 
> I would try to repair the drive before you image a new one to avoid anything being carried over. If that doesn't work I would go ahead and image a new drive following the instructions on the first post. All may go well and that will be that. If not you may have to use Instant Cake for a clean image.
> 
> http://www.dvrupgrade.com/dvr/stores/1/instantcake.cfm
> 
> Hope that helps!


I can enter the Kickstart code, but it reboots before the test comes up.

It looks like I may have to go the Instant Cake route.


----------



## jza80

Just finished the backup and install of a new 1TB WD EADS into my S3. Winmfs worked perfectly, I was able to transfer my settings and shows in about 30 minutes. Everything worked perfectly, I copied a truncated image to my PC as a backup and then did a full copy. Zero problems with my cable card or tuning adapter after the upgrade. The drive is so quiet I could not hear it over the cooling fan. Seems to run pretty cool, also as evidenced by the temp after I pulled it out of my PC after the copy finished.

A BIG THANKS to everyone who helps out with info on this forum, and in particular *THANKS *to the creator of Winmfs.

...In my case, I hedged a bit and purchased my drive from a Tivo specialist reseller on ebay for $119 shipped, I was a little worried about the disk parking problem and the difficulties some have mentioned about disabling it. So this part was done for me already, along with optimized noise settings, and not having to contend with changing firmware was worth the extra few dollars to me...

Now, I still am interested in finding out about that disk capacity indicator that is showing on the "ultimate convenience hack" .jpg a few posts back...maybe I need to start a separate post for that one...


----------



## dmartin5454

I was successful in getting wdidle3 to run on my WD15EVDS. I tried various methods
on the laptop with no success. I ended up using a friend's desktop, replacing their
SATA drive with mine and rebooting to run wdidle3. One method I tried was to create
a bootable USB flash drive in hopes of booting from it with my laptop. I was able to
boot from it, but it never found my WD drive. It kept finding the built-in drive instead.
I finally removed the built-in drive and rebooted, but at that point it still couldn't find
my drive. I'm still puzzled about why that was.

In any event, here are some tips for folks who would like to create a bootable USB
flash drive that had wdidle3.exe on it (which is what I used -- most likely the standard
CD drive with wdidle.exe would have worked as well on the desktop, but since I invested
so much time and energy in creating the bootable USB flash drive, I wanted to try it).
Once it worked, I was happy.

To make a bootable USB drive, first download the HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool.
This can be found at h50178.www5.hp.com/local_drivers/17550/SP27608.exe (sorry
I haven't posted enough to be able to include links). After downloading, run it and it
will install the tool. Then find a copy of win98boot.zip. There are many places that have
it, use Google. Unzip the win98boot.zip to a folder. Plug in a USB flash drive that is
empty, because it will be formatted. Run the HP tool. It will find your flash drive and
prompt you for formatting options. Check "Create a DOS startup disk", and then click
on "using DOS system files located at:". Then you will need to browse to the folder
that has the win98boot files. Clik Start. When it is done, copy the wdidle3.exe file
to the drive. You will need to make sure when you use it that your computer has BIOS
options to support booting from a USB flash drive. I hope this is helpful to others.
Now, on to actually upgrading my disk in my Tivo HD. I'll report back when that is
done.


----------



## richsadams

jza80 said:


> Just finished the backup and install of a new 1TB WD EADS into my S3. ...In my case, I hedged a bit and purchased my drive from a Tivo specialist reseller on ebay for $119 shipped... Now, I still am interested in finding out about that disk capacity indicator that is showing on the "ultimate convenience hack" .jpg a few posts back...maybe I need to start a separate post for that one...


Congrats on your "new" TiVo! :up: If you find time, can you post a link to the eBay seller? I'm just curious if it's a TCF member...someone we know or a lurker...particularly if they're already onto the Intellipark fix.

BTW, there isn't a disk capacity indicator on the Series3 I posted a picture of (or bikini models)...no hack at all...just a nice cup holder.


----------



## whitepelican

richsadams said:


> BTW, there isn't a disk capacity indicator on the Series3 I posted a picture of (or bikini models)...no hack at all...just a nice cup holder.


I believe he is talking about the little "glass half full" indicator just to the left of the Blue LED. The only time I've ever noticed it was during guided setup, but it appears to show it while recording in that "bikini" photo.


----------



## lex3001

I am posting this here even though I already posted it on mfslive just in case it helps someone like me save a few hours of time. I hope someone finds this useful!
--

I am using WinFS 9.3f to upgrade my TivoHD original. I am replacing the internal drive with a new SAMSUNG EcoGreen F2 HD154UI 1.5TB that I bought on Newegg in December. I am using the backup and restore method with WinFS on a laptop using a single SATA external USB enclosure. I tested the drive under Windows by doing a full disk format (time consuming) and using a for a few days before proceeding.

Under Windows 7 64-bit on an Acer Aspire 1420P, I ran WinFS as an administrator after disabling real-time virus protection. Back and restore completed without any errors and I was sure to follow the instructions carefully, indicating to expand but to limit the partition to 1GB when prompted.

With the new drive in the TiVoHD, the first boot never went past a gray screen. Subsequent boots never went past the initial "Powering Up".

I tried the whole process twice, checking to make sure I actually connected the drive inside the TiVo, and even backing up and restoring the Kernal and Boot before the Truncated part. All with the same results. I let the TiVo sit on Powering Up for an hour just to be sure.

Finally, after reading a few posts about potential motherboard issues or other strange behavior, I decided to give a try with a Dell Insprion 800m running Windows XP SP3 and the same version of WinFS.

I followed all the steps exdactly the same way. One thing I also did under XP which I hadn't thought of under Vista was to "remove hardware" after restoring to the new drive but before disconnecting it from the USB port. Not sure if that matters or not.

In any case, the TiVo now starts up! It takes about 5+ minutes to get past Powering Up and another few minutes on Almost There before I can use the system. Oddly enough it also lists all the programs I hadn't deleted before the whole process but I imagine they are not really there. It shows 180 hours of HD available. Woo hoo!

SO, this all begs the question -- is WinFS NOT compatible with Windows 7 64-bit? Or perhaps just Acer Aspire notebooks? If its a Win7 problem, could you please add that to the main instructions? I realize it doesn't say that Win7 is supported, but it also doesn't say its NOT supported...

One more thing -- when I went back to the WIn7 laptop, I noticed a popup from Windows I had not seen. Perhaps this is relevant:

[Window Title]
Program Compatibility Assistant

[Main Instruction]
This program requires a missing Windows component

[Expanded Information]
This program requires flash.ocx, which is no longer included in this version of Windows.

[^] Hide details [Check for solutions online] [This program worked correctly] [Cancel]

Again, there were no errors and everything APPEARED to work fine. Exactly as it did under WIndows XP.

Thanks for such a great and useful tool! This was much easier to use than when I did my Series 2 way back when and booted into Linux and did it with the command line.


----------



## dmartin5454

I used WinMFS 9.3f to copy my original disk to my WD15EVDS drive. I noticed in the FAQ the following:

You are about to create a partition larger than 1TB.
It's too large for a stock TiVo to support.
Do you want to limit it to 1TB?

However, I never saw that message during my session, and I followed all the steps as in the instructions. Now when I try to start my Tivo HD, it is stuck on the Powering up screen. Any suggestions?


----------



## CraigK

lex3001 said:


> Oddly enough it also lists all the programs I hadn't deleted before the whole process but I imagine they are not really there. It shows 180 hours of HD available. Woo hoo!


If you do the *TiVo Internal Upgrade: Preserves Settings Only* procedure, you end up with a bunch of phantom programs listed in your Now Playing List and Recently Deleted Folder that aren't really there. You can just delete them.

Congratulations on your expanded TiVo. :up:


----------



## jza80

whitepelican said:


> I believe he is talking about the little "glass half full" indicator just to the left of the Blue LED. The only time I've ever noticed it was during guided setup, but it appears to show it while recording in that "bikini" photo.


That's the one. Not a disk capacity indicator hack, eh? Oh, well.

Thanks for the clarification. Of course, now that I have 167 hours of HD recording space the issue is not as important as it was when I had only 35!


----------



## jlib

dmartin5454 said:


> I ordered a WD15EVDS (1.5T) drive to upgrade my internal disk in my Tivo
> HD. (I understand I'll only get 1TB + 160GB.) I was hoping I could use
> my HP laptop that has a combo eSATA/USB port to run wdidle3 to avoid the
> soft reboot problem. Like another poster, I burned the image to CD, but
> when I boot from the CD I got the messages:
> 
> CD-ROM Device Driver for IDE (Four Channels Supported)
> Driver Version : V340
> Device Name : BANANA
> No drives found, aborting installation
> 
> Device driver not found: 'BANANA'
> No valid CDROM device drives selected.
> 
> My CD-ROM is actually SCSI, not EIDE, SATA, nor USB:
> HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-T50N SCSI CdRom device.
> 
> If this ISO image won't work with my CD, does anyone have any suggestions
> for creating a boot image that would support it?


Don't be confused by Windows reporting SATA devices as SCSI. All internal drives in laptops are SATA now.

Turn off any advanced modes relating to SATA in the BIOS setup (look for words like AHCI, enhanced, etc, and turn off or set to compatible).

If you have a VIA chipset in your laptop, here is a better CDROM driver for your Hitachi-LG drive.


----------



## jlib

dmartin5454 said:


> I used WinMFS 9.3f to copy my original disk to my WD15EVDS drive. I noticed in the FAQ the following:
> 
> You are about to create a partition larger than 1TB.
> It's too large for a stock TiVo to support.
> Do you want to limit it to 1TB?
> 
> However, I never saw that message during my session, and I followed all the steps as in the instructions. Now when I try to start my Tivo HD, it is stuck on the Powering up screen. Any suggestions?


It is just not your week is it? There is a shortcoming in the user interface programming on WinMFS wherein if you linger for just an instant too long when clicking on the previous popup to the one you did not see, you will actually bring to the fore the main program screen exactly when the next popup pops up, thus hiding it. So, it was there all the time, you just did not notice it because it was in the background. Unfortunately, as you discovered, not clicking yes on that message will cause the upgrade to fail. There is no way to fix it except by redoing the whole process again.

I have now seen this problem 3 times.

FAQ suggestion: In the part that mentions the above popup, make a note that if one does not see it then minimize the main program.


----------



## jlib

lex3001 said:


> ...this all begs the question -- is WinFS NOT compatible with Windows 7 64-bit?


There is no particular reason it would not be compatible. I also remember Spike last year saying it was.


> One more thing -- when I went back to the WIn7 laptop, I noticed a popup from Windows I had not seen. Perhaps this is relevant:
> 
> [Window Title]
> Program Compatibility Assistant
> 
> [Main Instruction]
> This program requires a missing Windows component
> 
> [Expanded Information]
> This program requires flash.ocx, which is no longer included in this version of Windows.


There is no likely connection to your WinMFS problem, though. Let me hazard a guess. Do you have a 3rd party screen saver that is expecting to use Flash for the display (the pop up was there after you came back to the laptop later, right?)


----------



## dmartin5454

jlib said:


> It is just not your week is it? There is a shortcoming in the user interface programming on WinMFS wherein if you linger for just an instant too long when clicking on the previous popup to the one you did not see, you will actually bring to the fore the main program screen exactly when the next popup pops up, thus hiding it. So, it was there all the time, you just did not notice it because it was in the background. Unfortunately, as you discovered, not clicking yes on that message will cause the upgrade to fail. There is no way to fix it except by redoing the whole process again.


Tell me about it. I figured it might be something like that so I decided to try the whole process again. (Good tip about the main program screen hiding the pop-up -- I did have the main program maximized on my screen so I couldn't see anything else.) Now for the really bad news (for me). When I tried the process again, the new drive seems to have failed. When it is powered on it, I can hear 5-10 beeps, like it is trying to spin up but not making it. Once the beeping stops, the computer does not see the drive. I have 2 SATA/IDE to USB adapters, and I tried both, same results. I could swap in the old drive and still see it just fine, so I know the adapters are working ok. Also, just powering on the drive causes the beeps, regardless of whether or not the SATA cable is connected. So, I suppose I need to send it back and try for another one. Heavy Sigh.


----------



## dmartin5454

jlib said:


> Don't be confused by Windows reporting SATA devices as SCSI. All internal drives in laptops are SATA now.
> 
> Turn off any advanced modes relating to SATA in the BIOS setup (look for words like AHCI, enhanced, etc, and turn off or set to compatible).
> 
> If you have a VIA chipset in your laptop, here is a better CDROM driver for your Hitachi-LG drive.


Thanks for that information. Unfortunately the BIOS setup did not have any settings like that. I got around that problem by creating a bootable USB flash drive, but when I booted from it, the SATA drive was not seen. I suspect that I needed a SATA driver that was not present in the win98boot files (see my earlier post about that). Any suggestions for finding a SATA driver that would work with the win98boot files?


----------



## dmartin5454

dmartin5454 said:


> I got around that problem by creating a bootable USB flash drive, but when I booted from it, the SATA drive was not seen. I suspect that I needed a SATA driver that was not present in the win98boot files (see my earlier post about that). Any suggestions for finding a SATA driver that would work with the win98boot files?


Now that I think about it, the bootable USB flash drive worked just fine on the desktop computer (i.e., it found the SATA drive in the environment with the win98boot files). I wonder why it didn't work on the laptop. I think jlib is right -- it just isn't my week.


----------



## nessus

lex3001 said:


> SO, this all begs the question -- is WinFS NOT compatible with Windows 7 64-bit?


I've done two TiVo hard disk upgrades recently, one for a Series 3 and one for a TiVo HD. For both of them, I used 64-bit Windows 7 with WinMFS. The upgrades worked _fine_ for me.

(That's not to say that I didn't end up with complications that caused me to nearly pull out all of my hair, but that's another story.)

|>ouglas


----------



## pl1

richsadams said:


> Glad to hear that the newer Seagate Pipeline models are working well. Thanks for the post and enjoy! :up:


Looking good here. I just upgraded a new THD with a Seagate Pipeline ST31000322CS. It was too easy with WinMFS. Maybe 10 minutes to copy it. And I can tell absolutely no difference in noise level from the WD drives. So, for $85, I am a very happy camper!


----------



## lex3001

nessus said:


> I've done two TiVo hard disk upgrades recently, one for a Series 3 and one for a TiVo HD. For both of them, I used 64-bit Windows 7 with WinMFS. The upgrades worked _fine_ for me.
> 
> (That's not to say that I didn't end up with complications that caused me to nearly pull out all of my hair, but that's another story.)
> 
> |>ouglas


Did you do anything special as part of the process? The only thing I can think of that thius point is that on XP I definitely removed the USB drive "safely" before unplugging it after restoring, and I did not remember to do that in my Win7 attempts.


----------



## lex3001

jlib said:


> There is no particular reason it would not be compatible. I also remember Spike last year saying it was.
> There is no likely connection to your WinMFS problem, though. Let me hazard a guess. Do you have a 3rd party screen saver that is expecting to use Flash for the display (the pop up was there after you came back to the laptop later, right?)


No 3rd party screen saver, but I think I had a web page open in IE that wanted to use flash. Maybe that was just a red herring.


----------



## nessus

A few days back I reported on my ultimately successful attempt to upgrade my Series 3 with a Western Digital WD15EVDS 1.5TB A/V drive. Yesterday, I repeated this endeavor on my girlfriend's TiVo HD.

Unfortunately, there were a couple of tense snafus again, but ultimately I got it to work. As with previous upgrade, I upped the Intellipark timer on the drive from 8 seconds to 25.5 seconds using wdidle3, and then I used WinMFS (running on 64-bit Windows 7) to copy the original TiVo drive to the new 1.5TB drive.

Much to my dismay, after the upgrade, the TiVo would just hang forever at "Almost there. Just a few minutes more..." I scoured hundreds of post, and read one where someone suggested restoring that drive from the truncated backup that I made at the beginning of the process to see if the drive worked like that. This would be a restore without extending the drive, etc., since there's less to go wrong in this much simpler process. That way I could see if the problem was with the drive itself (e.g., compatibility of the drive with the TiVo, or something else amiss with the drive), or with some other part of the process.

So I did that, and voila, the problem went way!

Much to my surprise, all the video content was still there too. I had expected it to go missing when restoring from a truncated backup, but I guess the video was still sitting in the video partitions, and hadn't been harmed by the truncated restore. This fortunate outcome saved me a few additional hours.

I then put the drive back into the computer and ran WinMFS again to extend the drive and supersize it again, fully expecting the yellow screen of wait-forever again. But no, the drive still worked great!

So, who knows what went wrong the first time around, but all's well that ends well!

|>ouglas

P.S. There was another snafu that was much worse than the one I mentioned above. This other snafu nearly gave me a nervous breakdown. The _one_ screw that is deeply recessed became stripped and I couldn't get it out. This meant that I couldn't even put back the original drive to fix my girlfriend's TiVo!

I ran off with her to Home Depot, and I bought $50 worth of tools, including needle-nose vice grips, different screwdriver bits, bits for drilling out stripped screws, etc. In the end, the first and easiest solution was the one that fixed it. A better fitting T10 torx bit worked where my original T10 wouldn't.

Boy, was that a relief!

My recommendation to everyone would be to be extra careful with that recessed screw. In fact, I just left it out when putting back together the TiVo. It seems to be completely superfluous, as the drive is held in place quite fine by the other three screws.

Also, if the same problem had occurred with any of the other three screws, it wouldn't have been so traumatic, as they would have been much easier to access with a vice grip, etc.


----------



## nessus

lex3001 said:


> Did you do anything special as part of the process? The only thing I can think of that thius point is that on XP I definitely removed the USB drive "safely" before unplugging it after restoring, and I did not remember to do that in my Win7 attempts.


Well, that could certainly be the cause of the problem. If you don't tell Windows that you are going to be removing the drive, it won't necessarily write everything it was going to to the disk before you remove it.

I didn't do anything special to make WinMFS work for me on Windows 7, other than right-clicking on it and chosing "Run as Administrator", rather than just double-clicking on it to run it.

With a TiVo HD upgrade, I did end up with it sitting forever at "Just a few minutes more..." on the first attempt. Read above a post or two for how I ended up fixing that, if you think it might be apropos.

|>ouglas


----------



## richsadams

nessus said:


> Much to my surprise, all the video content was still there too. I had expected it to go missing when restoring from a truncated backup, but I guess the video was still sitting in the video partitions, and hadn't been harmed by the truncated restore. This fortunate outcome saved me a few additional hours.


Thank goodness for (linux) partitions! :up:



nessus said:


> My recommendation to everyone would be to be extra careful with that recessed screw. In fact, I just left it out when putting back together the TiVo. It seems to be completely superfluous, as the drive is held in place quite fine by the other three screws.
> 
> Also, if the same problem had occurred with any of the other three screws, it wouldn't have been so traumatic, as they would have been much easier to access with a vice grip, etc.


BTW, in the "old days" we used to strap dual HDD's together inside TiVo's with duct tape...and then progressed to "high tech" - zip ties! So only missing one screw is still a good day in TiVoLand. Enjoy!


----------



## nessus

richsadams said:


> BTW, in the "old days" we used to strap dual HDD's together inside TiVo's with duct tape...and then progressed to "high tech" - zip ties! So only missing one screw is still a good day in TiVoLand. Enjoy!


I guess I never did a dual-disk upgrade _quite_ that long ago. I did do single-drive upgrades on quite a few 14-hour Series 1's that I had won from TiVo by writing contest essays for all my friends and family, and I eventually did dual-drive upgrades on some of them to bring them up to a few hundred hours, but I ordered special dual-disk mounting brackets from 9th Tee, I believe.

|>ouglas


----------



## jza80

richsadams said:


> Congrats on your "new" TiVo! :up: If you find time, can you post a link to the eBay seller? I'm just curious if it's a TCF member...someone we know or a lurker...particularly if they're already onto the Intellipark fix.


Sure, the seller goes by the handle of dvr_dude. If you do a search for Tivo upgrade you will find his auctions. Does quite a business, looking at a constant stream of feedback.


----------



## richsadams

jza80 said:


> richsadams said:
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats on your "new" TiVo! :up: If you find time, can you post a link to the eBay seller? I'm just curious if it's a TCF member...someone we know or a lurker...particularly if they're already onto the Intellipark fix.
> 
> Sure, the seller goes by the handle of dvr_dude. If you do a search for Tivo upgrade you will find his actions. Does quite a business, looking at a constant stream of feedback.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for that. That's the name I've seen before as well. I suspect it's someone that has another moniker here...glad he's able to fill a gap for folks.
Click to expand...


----------



## richsadams

nessus said:


> I eventually did dual-drive upgrades on some of them to bring them up to a few hundred hours, but I ordered special dual-disk mounting brackets from 9th Tee, I believe.


We used to _dream_ of having dual-disk mounting brackets in those days. Why then we used to walk to school...in the snow...uphill...both ways...


----------



## bjmurphy

Hi Tivo bods

will soon install a WD10evds in my HD aussie Tivo. Unfotunately it was made Nov 16th 2009 so will have to run wdidle3. I was going use my old dusty desktop I retreived from the garden shed but during the upgrade it decided to die on me. I wised I did not wipe my imaged backup drive to use as a spare external drive now... Will use my mother in laws desktop but have to arrange for a convenient time to do it. Will let you all know how it goes when done....


----------



## qz3fwd

Upgrading S3 HDD-> 1/1.5TB 5900 RPM HDD Questions 
I bought a third S3 tonight on fleabay (brand new) and will be replacing the internal hard drive with either a 1Tb or 1.5TB HDD.
I'd like to install the maximum capacity, so I'd like to put in a 1.5TB drive.

Regardless, I prefer 7900 RPM drives on my PC's, but everyone seems to recommend the 5900's for HDD upgrades.
Is this simply because of heat/noise issues?
I will not buy WD drives anymore, so I'll be looking for either Seagate/Hitachi drives (In that order).

Do these 5900 RPM drives slow down TivoDesktop transfers?
I presume the process is CPU bound and not HDD bound on the tivo side, 
but I dont want to slow down my transfers which are slow enough as it is. (Faster is better)

Recommendations for specific Seagate/Hitachi 1.5/7200 drives would be appreciated.


----------



## bjmurphy

Hi all, last week I contacted WD support re my drive asking if it had intellipark and if I could have a copy of wdidle3. Here is their response:


"Thank you for contacting Western Digital Customer Service and Support. My name is *******.

This hard drive does have the Intellipark functionality. I apologize but the wdidle3 is not an application we have available for download.


I hope that we have met your expectations today and that you are satisfied with our service. If you have any further questions, please reply to this email and we will be happy to assist you further." 

Sincerely,
*********.


----------



## richsadams

qz3fwd said:


> Upgrading S3 HDD-> 1/1.5TB 5900 RPM HDD Questions
> I bought a third S3 tonight on fleabay (brand new) and will be replacing the internal hard drive with either a 1Tb or 1.5TB HDD.
> I'd like to install the maximum capacity, so I'd like to put in a 1.5TB drive.
> 
> Regardless, I prefer 7900 RPM drives on my PC's, but everyone seems to recommend the 5900's for HDD upgrades.
> Is this simply because of heat/noise issues?
> I will not buy WD drives anymore, so I'll be looking for either Seagate/Hitachi drives (In that order).
> 
> Do these 5900 RPM drives slow down TivoDesktop transfers?
> I presume the process is CPU bound and not HDD bound on the tivo side,
> but I dont want to slow down my transfers which are slow enough as it is. (Faster is better)
> 
> Recommendations for specific Seagate/Hitachi 1.5/7200 drives would be appreciated.


Here are my recommendations:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7712809#post7712809

The Seagate Pipeline drives appear to be doing very well. However I would stay away from Seagate 1.5TB drives. I know a few people here have had success with them, but for the most part they have had a terrible track record. I've had personal experience with two that I had to return.

FWIW, TiVo cannot take advantage of anything more than 5400RPM hard drives. (The OEM drives are 5400RPM w/2MB of cache). So anything beyond that isn't necessary. (Although there is an argument for improved performance for drives with something more than 2MB's of cache...which almost all HDD's have now.) TiVo transfers are bottlenecked by the processors, nothing to do w/HDD speeds. BTW, Series3's have the highest transfer rates. :up:

Happy upgrading!


----------



## richsadams

bjmurphy said:


> Hi all, last week I contacted WD support re my drive asking if it had intellipark and if I could have a copy of wdidle3. Here is their response:
> 
> "Thank you for contacting Western Digital Customer Service and Support. My name is *******.
> 
> This hard drive does have the Intellipark functionality. I apologize but the wdidle3 is not an application we have available for download.
> 
> I hope that we have met your expectations today and that you are satisfied with our service. If you have any further questions, please reply to this email and we will be happy to assist you further."
> 
> Sincerely,
> *********.


IIRC someone here said that wdidle3.exe is in fact on their website.  Folks here (including yours truly) have had less than satisfactory results trying to get answers out of WD...if they answer at all.  No need to block out the WD CSR's name. Just a wild guess...it's Raul, Paulo or some variation correct?

BTW, happy upgrading and if you have time, can you post a pic or two of your System Information and maybe Now Playing screens when you're done? I'm curious to see what an Aussie TiVo screen looks like. When we lived in NZ we hacked a Series1 and it worked like a charm, but now that they have TiVo in AU and NZ, it would be nice to get a feel for what our southern cousins are seeing. TIA.


----------



## uTivo

I see New Egg is running a sale on the Seagate Barracuda 750GB model ST3750528AS which is a la 7200.12 series. From reading this thread, the Seagate's can't be AAM modified, but the spec'd value of 2.7 bels for seek seems acceptable to most. Anybody using this HDD series in a S3? TIA!


----------



## Scott NY

Hi all,

I am a long time lurker, first time poster (in this thread) and very much appreciate all of the really valuable information in this forum.

I'm a fairly technical power user who is just scared to death of screwing this up and losing my TiVo for more than a few hours. I am having a devil of a time pulling the trigger on this. I should also note that I am frugal and want to spend as little money to do this as possible.

I have a 2 year old TiVoHD that I am looking to upgrade to a 1 TB drive. I keep hesitating on buying because either the price of a drive I am looking at goes up or an Intellipark issue is found in a recommended model or I become too scared I'll get a drive that'll fail or sweeps begins and our TiVo is too full to copy everything over in a reasonable timeframe without losing many hours of valuable TV watching time, etc. I would want to copy all settings and recordings, and because my wife and I watch so much TV, I'd want to do it in as short a timeframe as possible so we would have no significant downtime.

I've been very carefully reading all of the posts here and I think I am fairly comfortable buying one of a few recommended drives, even if I have to tweak some settings on the drive.

However, I am a Mac user with a Power Mac G5 (which I can't use for the upgrade if I have read everything right) and a 3+ year old MacBook Pro with almost no available disk space (though I have an external USB drive I can use for extra space if needed). I have a Mac Pro at work but my boss won't let me use it for this purpose (unless it's super easy and I can do it without him knowing - he does have vacation time coming up next month).

So, can I use the MacBook Pro to do the upgrade? If so, what would I need? My guess is I would need an external SATA enclosure or converter that connects via USB or FireWire to the MacBook Pro, Boot Camp running Windows XP (got that already) and a bootable copy of that wdidle3 program that boots on Macs (I tried to get it from this post: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=7656451#post7656451 but I got this message: "_This file is neither allocated to a Premium Account, or a Collector's Account, and can therefore only be downloaded 10 times. This limit is reached._"). Then I would need to connect the old TiVo drive, copy everything over to my external USB drive, then connect the new drive (and tweak as needed) and copy everything back from my external USB drive, right?

Will that setup even work on a MacBook Pro? It seems frighteningly convoluted, even for a power user (and I'd have to buy the adapter, too - remember I am chea... I mean frugal). Is there an easier way to do it other than finding new friends who might have a PC with two free SATA ports inside?

Anyone on this forum live in Long Island who wants to help out one weekend for a few hours? 

Any help or advice would be very welcome. TIA.

-Scott


----------



## whitepelican

uTivo said:


> I see New Egg is running a sale on the Seagate Barracuda 750GB model ST3750528AS which is a la 7200.12 series. From reading this thread, the Seagate's can't be AAM modified, but the spec'd value of 2.7 bels for seek seems acceptable to most. Anybody using this HDD series in a S3? TIA!


I'd just like to point out once again how disappointed I am in the ST31500541AS drive that I'm using. According to its specs, it is 2.5-2.6 bels, and yet it was much too loud for my bedroom, and it's even a little annoying in the family room. It is many, many times louder than the WD10EADS drive (which I can't hear at all) in my other S3.


----------



## pl1

whitepelican said:


> I'd just like to point out once again how disappointed I am in the ST31500541AS drive that I'm using. According to its specs, it is 2.5-2.6 bels, and yet it was much too loud for my bedroom, and it's even a little annoying in the family room. It is many, many times louder than the WD10EADS drive (which I can't hear at all) in my other S3.


Do you hear any noise when it is idle (just recording the buffer?) Or only when it is recording? The reason I ask, is that I noticed that there is some pretty noticeable vibration going on with my Seagate Pipeline when both tuners are actively recording. It is not noticeable from accross the room, but I can actually feel the vibration on the side of the TiVo. I do not hear any head seeking noise like I've heard on many drives. So, is it possible you could add some rubber grommets to dull the vibration "if" that is in fact the noise you are noticing? Or do you think it is the head seeking?


----------



## bkdtv

jlib said:


> It is just not your week is it? There is a shortcoming in the user interface programming on WinMFS wherein if you linger for just an instant too long when clicking on the previous popup to the one you did not see, you will actually bring to the fore the main program screen exactly when the next popup pops up, thus hiding it. So, it was there all the time, you just did not notice it because it was in the background. Unfortunately, as you discovered, not clicking yes on that message will cause the upgrade to fail. There is no way to fix it except by redoing the whole process again.
> 
> I have now seen this problem 3 times [when upgrading with >1.0TB drives].
> 
> FAQ suggestion: In the part that mentions the above popup, make a note that if one does not see it then minimize the main program.


I updated the FAQ to reflect this.

If someone could take a screenshot of this dialog box the next time they do a 1+TB upgrade, that would be helpful. I'll link it in the FAQ.


----------



## drhankz

Scott NY said:


> I'm a fairly technical power user
> 
> However, I am a Mac user with a Power Mac G5
> -Scott


SHAME on you calling yourself a Power User and still using a G5 :down:

Give up the IDEA of upgrading your TiVo :down:

Borrow a PC from a Friend or at Work

FYI - I am a MAC POWER USER - have been since DAY-1 :up:


----------



## pl1

Anyone looking for a good deal on the Seagate Pipeline ST31000322CS

Ebay item# 160394919147


----------



## JonS

My WD10EVDS is still working fine - apparently I snuck in just before the drive was updated with the Intellipark (mis)feature.


----------



## Scott NY

Since I use a Mac Pro all day at work and a MacBook Pro all night at home, there's no need to spend money (I did say I was frugal, right?) on buying a new tertiary computer that is essentially a media server. And I used to work for Apple, so I am allowed to consider myself a power user!

Seriously, though. There would seem to be a lot of synergy between Mac users and TiVo users, so I am a little surprised there is so little Mac support for things like this.


----------



## qz3fwd

OK-so Seagates are problematic in Tivo's for some reason.
I guess I'll either get a Hitachi Deskstar 1TB or 2TB drive then.
Based on comments, I'll get the new S3, let it run for a week or 2 to make sure everything works, then upgrade the internal HDD using WinMFS.

Is the max 1.36 TB a limit of the kernel, or something stupid tivo restricted, or a WinMFS limit? 


richsadams said:


> Here are my recommendations:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7712809#post7712809
> 
> The Seagate Pipeline drives appear to be doing very well. However I would stay away from Seagate 1.5TB drives. I know a few people here have had success with them, but for the most part they have had a terrible track record. I've had personal experience with two that I had to return.
> 
> FWIW, TiVo cannot take advantage of anything more than 5400RPM hard drives. (The OEM drives are 5400RPM w/2MB of cache). So anything beyond that isn't necessary. (Although there is an argument for improved performance for drives with something more than 2MB's of cache...which almost all HDD's have now.) TiVo transfers are bottlenecked by the processors, nothing to do w/HDD speeds. BTW, Series3's have the highest transfer rates. :up:
> 
> Happy upgrading!


----------



## bkdtv

qz3fwd said:


> OK-so Seagates are problematic in Tivo's for some reason.
> I guess I'll either get a Hitachi Deskstar 1TB or 2TB drive then.
> Based on comments, I'll get the new S3, let it run for a week or 2 to make sure everything works, then upgrade the internal HDD using WinMFS.
> 
> Is the max 1.36 TB a limit of the kernel, or something stupid tivo restricted, or a WinMFS limit?


The 1TB Seagates work fine, they are just louder than the specs suggest.

TiVo's current SATA driver limits partition size to 1TiB, so max capacity is the original partition (160GB or 250GB) plus a new partition expanded to 1TiB (1.1TB). One or two ebayers figured out a way to expand another partition to allow 2TB with a single drive, but there are no public tools to do that.


----------



## cjv2

bkdtv said:


> One or two ebayers figured out a way to expand another partition to allow 2TB with a single drive, but there are no public tools to do that.


Got a link to an example of that? Forum post, eBay auction, doesn't matter... just curious...


----------



## bkdtv

cjv2 said:


> Got a link to an example of that? Forum post, eBay auction, doesn't matter... just curious...


I updated the previous post with a link.


----------



## cjv2

bkdtv said:


> I updated the previous post with a link.


Thanks!

EDIT: Wow, that's pretty interesting.


----------



## bkdtv

I removed some discontinued drives from the first post to simplify the choices.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

Aventinus22 said:


> Then about 15 seconds later, it reboots, eventually coming back to the External Storage Missing screen again.
> 
> Then I tried reconnecting the external drive. It gets to the green screen and reboots about 15 seconds later, then repeats.


I have a TiVo HD with problems, and I'm going through this right now. I have two hints for you:

1) Be careful about the "External Storage Missing" screen. Are you sure this isn't a "message" that you need to delete? I was confused by this as well; I successfully divorced an external drive and still kept getting the confusing screen. The solution was to delete the message.

2) It's quite possible that when an expander breaks, it somehow corrupts the files on the main TiVo disk. Right now I have a different TiVo HD that can't boot. It used to have an expander; I separated the two and the TiVo HD still won't boot. In addition, that expander causes a different TiVo HD to lock up. So, perhaps, as others have suggested, you need to reformat the disk.

All of this would be so much easier if TiVo simply had decent error messages. Hard disks have error checking. The SATA protocol has error checking. Printing out error messages would be far more useful than what TiVo does now (which is apparently to simply ignore the error status indication).


----------



## HazelW

I've had two HD TiVos with expanders go bad. Could not divorce the drives. Could not kickstart. Used Instantcake on new drives and took the old drives out of the expander and reformatted for PC.


----------



## HazelW

bkdtv said:


> One or two ebayers figured out a way to expand another partition to allow 2TB with a single drive, but there are no public tools to do that.


this is a nice solution except for the cablecard problem. Is there an easy way to get old cablecard info off your old disk and on the new disk?


----------



## Scotty d

Hello,

I've been browsing the threads the past week or so and decided to go with the Hitachi Deskstar 1 TB to up my storage in my Series 3 HD recorder. The new drive makes a faint (but irritating) clicking sound constantly. If the TV is on then you can hadly hear it, but if the room is slient it quicly becomes anoying (additional storage is not worth this).

Is this just the way the drive is? I read on the posts I could turn down the AAM, but couldn't find out how. Will this even help? Is the drive bad? Could someone advise me on how to proceed?

Thanks!

Scott


----------



## pl1

Scotty d said:


> Hello,
> 
> I've been browsing the threads the past week or so and decided to go with the Hitachi Deskstar 1 TB to up my storage in my Series 3 HD recorder. The new drive makes a faint (but irritating) clicking sound constantly. If the TV is on then you can hadly hear it, but if the room is slient it quicly becomes anoying (additional storage is not worth this).
> 
> Is this just the way the drive is? I read on the posts I could turn down the AAM, but couldn't find out how. Will this even help? Is the drive bad? Could someone advise me on how to proceed?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Scott


One thing you will notice is that those drives are not designed for DVRs. No big deal, but drives that are designed for DVRs "may" be quieter. Anyway, I do not think there is anything wrong with the drive. I think you are hearing the head seeking. I've had this with WD and Maxtor drives. I've noticed it more when a drive was not designed for DVRs. Functionally, it works fine. And the way to turn down the noise is right in the FAQ noted in the first post.



> Make Model Size Part # Intended for DVRs Noise (10=Best)
> Hitachi Deskstar 1000GB HD31000 No 8*
> Hitachi Deskstar 1000GB HDS721010CLA332 No 8*
> Hitachi Deskstar 1000GB HDT721010SLA360 No 8*


----------



## rocko

HazelW said:


> this is a nice solution except for the cablecard problem. Is there an easy way to get old cablecard info off your old disk and on the new disk?


Installing drives from the eBay guys renders your TiVo as if it were new. Depending on your cable provider you most likely will need to call them to get the CableCARDS re-paired.

One noteable exception is Verizon FIOS. These CableCARDS can be moved freely between TiVos without any special action.


----------



## Mahty

According to Seatools for Windows diagnostics, the 750GB Seagate DB35 HD in my TiVo S3 has been experiencing a seemingly increasing number of bad sectors. I assume that such a situation makes the drive eligible for a free refurbished replacement since it still has 2 years left on its 5-year warranty.

As per a Seagate Warranty and Returns FAQ, it appears that rather than opting for such a refurbished hard drive, Seagate might allow me, for a small (?) price, to opt for a newer and larger capacity drive. If so, I guess I would opt for the 1TB 5900RPM Seagate Pipeline drive, if available.

Has anybody ever taken advantage of such a Seagate replacement option? And if so, is such an upgrade a good deal, or might it be cheaper to just buy a brand new 1TB Seagate Pipeline drive on my own?


----------



## Spenner

Are you certain about the "pairing" of cablecards to a Tivo's hard drive?

Last month the upgraded 1TB drive on my Tivo failed. I still had my original drive, which would have allegedly been "paired" with my CableCard. I used the original to re-image/expand the 1TB drive from scratch, and my cable worked fine. The thing is, my original cablecard had been replaced (after the original HD upgrade), so if the original drive had any cablecard info it was for a different card than is in the Tivo.

Maybe the pairing is somehow on the cable-co's end, with an ID of the Tivo device, or my subscription. But the drive I imaged did not have info from the cablecard that was in my Tivo, and it works fine. I was prepared to have to call the cable-co after my re-imaging, but didn't need to.


----------



## qz3fwd

bkdtv said:


> The 1TB Seagates work fine, they are just louder than the specs suggest.
> 
> TiVo's current SATA driver limits partition size to 1TiB, so max capacity is the original partition (160GB or 250GB) plus a new partition expanded to 1TiB (1.1TB). One or two ebayers figured out a way to expand another partition to allow 2TB with a single drive, but there are no public tools to do that.


Neat-but what happens during the next Tivo software update?
Poof-your 2TB Tivo is now inaccessible, or is this a way to force Tivo to officially update their kernel or whatever software is limiting drive capacity.


----------



## bkdtv

Spenner said:


> Are you certain about the "pairing" of cablecards to a Tivo's hard drive?
> 
> Last month the upgraded 1TB drive on my Tivo failed. I still had my original drive, which would have allegedly been "paired" with my CableCard. I used the original to re-image/expand the 1TB drive from scratch, and my cable worked fine. The thing is, my original cablecard had been replaced (after the original HD upgrade), so if the original drive had any cablecard info it was for a different card than is in the Tivo.


Think of it this way: Your original TiVo image and any image created from it is X. The CableCard is Y. The CableCard pairing is X plus Y.

Any CableCard pairing will thus work with both your original image and any image created from it.



qz3fwd said:


> Neat-but what happens during the next Tivo software update?


From what I've undersand, that doesn't happen with the way they've done the expansion.



qz3fwd said:


> Poof-your 2TB Tivo is now inaccessible, or is this a way to force Tivo to officially update their kernel or whatever software is limiting drive capacity.


You can only use a >1TB partition with a different SATA driver. You can't use a different SATA driver without PROM mod.


----------



## drey

qz3fwd said:


> Neat-but what happens during the next Tivo software update?
> Poof-your 2TB Tivo is now inaccessible, or is this a way to force Tivo to officially update their kernel or whatever software is limiting drive capacity.


The update works fine, even with 2TB drive.


----------



## cjv2

bkdtv said:


> You can only use a >1TB partition with a different SATA driver. You can't use a different SATA driver without PROM mod.


Trying to wrap my head around this.

The 2TB drives being sold by the guy on eBay are just hard drives. No PROM mod, right?

But if you can't use a >1TB partition without a different SATA driver, and a different SATA driver requires a PROM mod... then how does he pull this off?

I just woke up, so if I missed something, tell me I need e-coffee and I'll go away.


----------



## ThAbtO

cjv2 said:


> I just woke up, so if I missed something, tell me I need e-coffee and I'll go away.


The E-Starbucks store is right around the corner just off the Information Superhighway.


----------



## bkdtv

cjv2 said:


> But if you can't use a >1TB partition without a different SATA driver, and a different SATA driver requires a PROM mod... then how does he pull this off?


It looks like he wrote his own program to expand another TiVo partition that WinMFS does not touch.


----------



## cjv2

bkdtv said:


> It looks like he wrote his own program to expand another TiVo partition that WinMFS does not touch.


Ah. So I do not, in fact, need e-coffee. But since ThAbtO commented, I guess I'll go get some anyway.


----------



## bjmurphy

Hi all I have achieved an upgrade of my 160GB tivo with a 1TB wd10evds hdd. 

I dealt with the intellipark issue with wdidle3 setting it to 25500 milliseconds (wdidle3/s255) and it reboots perfectly.

thanks to this site for all the tools and knowledge now I have 200 hours of HD and 400 hours of SD space.

How do I get a screen shot from the tivo so I can post it for people to do?

I have done it with pc's but not sure yet how to do it with the tivo...

I think I may have done it while I did beta testing for the unit but have now forgotten.

Also. These units in Australia retail for $700 PLUS $150 for the software to network it with your computer to stream movies/music etc, plus $300 for the external 1TB drive if you want it.

Since I did beta testing the unit and software cost me nothing, so all it has cost me was $130 for the 1TB wd10evds hdd!!!

Brad


----------



## CraigK

bjmurphy said:


> How do I get a screen shot from the tivo so I can post it for people to do?


Most people just take a picture of their TV screen with a digital camera.

Congratulations on the upgrade. :up:


----------



## yukit

Scotty d said:


> Hello,
> 
> I've been browsing the threads the past week or so and decided to go with the Hitachi Deskstar 1 TB to up my storage in my Series 3 HD recorder. The new drive makes a faint (but irritating) clicking sound constantly. If the TV is on then you can hadly hear it, but if the room is slient it quicly becomes anoying (additional storage is not worth this).
> 
> Is this just the way the drive is? I read on the posts I could turn down the AAM, but couldn't find out how. Will this even help? Is the drive bad? Could someone advise me on how to proceed?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Scott


I am using a Hitachi Deathstar 2TB (HD32000 IDK/7K) in HDXL.
I did apply the AAM change. No clicking, it does not seem to be much louder than the original WD drive.


----------



## chadcmac

I tried posting over at MFSLive.org, but no response, so I'll try here too...

I am helping a friend upgrade his TiVo Series 3 from the original 250 GB to a 1.0 TB drive. I screwed up, but I gave the TiVo back to him before I realized that, so I can't work on it right now and I won't get a chance for a few more days. I want to make sure I am prepared when I do get that chance.

In a nutshell: I used WinMFS and followed the instructions exactly in this FAQ, preserving setting and recordings. After putting the new drive in the TiVo and powering it up, I got the GSOD. It only lasted about 5-10 minutes, then the TiVo reset itself, and powered up fine. Except the TiVo does not recognize the upgraded size.

There was a a thread about a similar sounding problem on this forum, and according to that there were two solutions that may work for me.

One solution seemed to be using MFSLive instead of WinMFS, another
solution seemed to be using a different SATA port on the mobo. 

I plan on trying a different SATA port, and hopefully it will work. If that doesn't, I guess I'll try MFSLive. In case either of those doesn't work, has anyone else encountered a similar problem and could suggest other possible fixes?

My other question is this, can I just plug the 1.0 TB drive back into my computer and use WinMFS or MFSLive to expand the drive without having to redo the whole copy process again? If so, what commands would I use?

If I do have to redo the copy process, do I have to clear/reformat the new drive first? If so, how should I do that?

Thanks!
-Chad


----------



## lex3001

chadcmac said:


> ...Except the TiVo does not recognize the upgraded size.
> 
> ...
> My other question is this, can I just plug the 1.0 TB drive back into my computer and use WinMFS or MFSLive to expand the drive without having to redo the whole copy process again? If so, what commands would I use?


I'm not an expert but I think you can use WinMFS and just use the Add option. I think that's what it does after you copy drives anyway in order to expand the size to use the drive space you have.

After the whole process failed on one computer for me, I tried using another computer instead and everything worked great (using the exact same process -- go figure).


----------



## whitepelican

chadcmac said:


> My other question is this, can I just plug the 1.0 TB drive back into my computer and use WinMFS or MFSLive to expand the drive without having to redo the whole copy process again? If so, what commands would I use?


Yes, you just need to do an "mfsadd", either in WinMFS or MFSLive.



chadcmac said:


> If I do have to redo the copy process, do I have to clear/reformat the new drive first? If so, how should I do that?


No, you don't need to format the hard drive in any way. MFSLive/WinMFS will wipe/reformat the drive when you do the copy.


----------



## mrbeefhead

Two questions:

*1.* Is anyone planning on using an 1.0 TB EADS drive to do an upgrade anytime soon? Only asking as I saw on slickdeals today that zipzoomfly has an amazing deal on them right now ($75 AR). If deals shouldn't be posted on here, let me know and I'll edit this post.

*2.* I am about to replace my internal HDD with a 1TB drive. In addition, I want to be able to add the MX-1 external in the future (when I have the funds). Is there a way to prepare my internal drive for that during my upgrade or will I have to go through the upgrade process with _both drives_ when the day comes that I'm ready to attach my MX-1?

Thanks for the help!


----------



## Gerhard

Has anyone tried taking a WD MyDVR Expander, removing the 1TB drive, and adding a 2TB WD drive to it?

Possible, not possible, waste to time to try, etc.??

GB


----------



## Gerhard

BTW:

I did a quick search and I noted that no one has mentioned the AV-GP WD15EVDS drives for use with upgrading a TivoHD. [in this thread]

Has anyone had any success with that unit??

I just picked up a TivoHD (already have three others, and this will replace one of the TivoS2s)... and I plan on using that drive to repalce the internal drive on the new TivoHD.

GB


----------



## pl1

Gerhard said:


> I did a quick search and I noted that no one has mentioned the AV-GP WD15EVDS drives for use with upgrading a TivoHD. [in this thread]Has anyone had any success with that unit??
> I just picked up a TivoHD (already have three others, and this will replace one of the TivoS2s)... and I plan on using that drive to repalce the internal drive on the new TivoHD.GB


If you'll notice in the FAQ, I would have to presume that this drive would be included along with all EVDS drives.


> This issue affects all recent Western Digital EADS and EAVS drives. It also affects EVVS drives manufactured after September 18 and EVDS drives manufactured since November. Drives built prior to these dates work perfectly fine; they do not exhibit the issue. The manufacture date is printed on the top of every drive.


----------



## rocko

I guess I'm confused so ...

According to the FAQs at mfslive.org you can only expand/upgrade a drive one time using WinMFS or MFSTools. But in the same breath it implies that you can do it multiples times:

_To save recordings and expand Single drive setup:

Series 1 Standalone (2x)
Series 1 Standalone UK (2x)
Series 1 DTV (1x)
Series 2 & Series 3 standalone & Dtv (1x)

Using mfslive beta w/ restore -f option
more than 10x depending on how big your drive is and what r value you use.

WinMFS has the -f option built in, so "in theory" you can expand you expanded drive again and again.

I have used the latest WinMFS to expand two already expanded drives to even larger drives with no issues. Note that I did not try to use a drive larger than 1 tb. _

I used WinMFS to copy and expand my original 160GB drive to a 750GB drive. I'd like to take the 750GB and preserve recordings on to a 1TB drive.

I think the answer is *no*. Is it?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## watts

I have been struggling with my 3rd HD Tivo upgrade. I now think that the external storage plug is bad on the TiVo itself. The two drives I am using are pre-intellipark dates. Just to be safe I used wdidle3 on them. Both drives can be formated and work as the internal single TiVo drive. The problem is that whenever I marry the 2 drives and plug it in, the system just hangs on the first screen and never even goes to the "just a few minutes more" screen. I am using the Sigg cord and Antec External. Just to be sure it was not a problem with those, I swapped the one I had been trying with one from one of the working upgrades. The antec external box and cord work just fine on the other upgrade and the newly swapped out box combination is displaying the same problem as before.

So has anyone had this before? Is there anything I can try to do to fix it? I am still able to get the extended warrantee. I suppose I could pay for that, throw the original drive back in and send it in for repair/replacement.


----------



## wackymann

rocko said:


> I guess I'm confused so ...
> 
> According to the FAQs at mfslive.org you can only expand/upgrade a drive one time using WinMFS or MFSTools. But in the same breath it implies that you can do it multiples times:
> 
> _To save recordings and expand Single drive setup:
> 
> Series 1 Standalone (2x)
> Series 1 Standalone UK (2x)
> Series 1 DTV (1x)
> Series 2 & Series 3 standalone & Dtv (1x)
> 
> Using mfslive beta w/ restore -f option
> more than 10x depending on how big your drive is and what r value you use.
> 
> WinMFS has the -f option built in, so "in theory" you can expand you expanded drive again and again.
> 
> I have used the latest WinMFS to expand two already expanded drives to even larger drives with no issues. Note that I did not try to use a drive larger than 1 tb. _
> 
> I used WinMFS to copy and expand my original 160GB drive to a 750GB drive. I'd like to take the 750GB and preserve recordings on to a 1TB drive.
> 
> I think the answer is *no*. Is it?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


I have an original S3. I went from 250 GB to 750 GB, and then from 750 GB to 1 TB. It worked fine.


----------



## rocko

wackymann said:


> I have an original S3. I went from 250 GB to 750 GB, and then from 750 GB to 1 TB. It worked fine.


Saving recordings?


----------



## bkdtv

rocko said:


> Saving recordings?


Yes.

You can expand a previously expanded partition so long as your new drive is 1.1TB or smaller. If you want to expand beyond that (up to 1.26TB on TivoHD or 1.35TB on Series3), then you have to start with the original image.


----------



## rocko

bkdtv said:


> Yes.
> 
> You can expand a previously expanded partition so long as your new drive is 1.1TB or smaller. If you want to expand beyond that (up to 1.26TB on TivoHD or 1.35TB on Series3), then you have to start with the original image.


Then away we go ... see you all in about 6 hours. Thanks.

EDIT: All done - looks good so far ...


----------



## digason

Has anybody found a way around this? I suspect that one of my drives is failing and would like to replace them both with a single large internal drive without losing any recordings. What are the technical differences in the marrying process that TiVo uses vs the process WinMFS uses? And are there any advantages to using WinMFS over using the mfslive linux CD? I'd prefer to not use Windows if I don't have to.



bkdtv said:


> *Can I backup the recordings on my internal drive and eSATA drive and restore it to a single, larger internal hard drive?*
> 
> Yes, but only if you originally married the eSATA drive using WinMFS. If you used the External Storage menu, then you cannot copy the recordings from an internal+external setup to a single internal drive.


----------



## mkomyluck

READ THIS

So I was at my local traders village when I run across this uverse DVR box for sale for $30 so I offered the guy $15 for it and he accepted. When I took it home I promptly opened it to find to my amazement a WD5000AVVS-63ZWB0 <---Western Digital Hard Drive, this is one of the 500GB drives that come in the MY DVR EXPANDER. Last night I ordered a Rocket Fish eSATA hard drive enclosure for $18, according to UPS will arrive on Monday. For $33 500 GB external Drive...NICE!!!


----------



## RV49er

I bought a WD10EADS which was manufactured Nov 2009. I disabled intellipark and used Instantcakes to create an image. The Tivo works perfectly and does not have any soft reboot problems.


----------



## richsadams

mkomyluck said:


> So I was at my local traders village when I run across this uverse DVR box for sale for $30 so I offered the guy $15 for it and he accepted. When I took it home I promptly opened it to find to my amazement a WD5000AVVS-63ZWB0 <---Western Digital Hard Drive, this is one of the 500GB drives that come in the MY DVR EXPANDER. Last night I ordered a Rocket Fish eSATA hard drive enclosure for $18, according to UPS will arrive on Monday. For $33 500 GB external Drive...NICE!!!


 Sweet...and cheap!



RV49er said:


> I bought a WD10EADS which was manufactured Nov 2009. I disabled intellipark and used Instantcakes to create an image. The Tivo works perfectly and does not have any soft reboot problems.


Welcome to the club! :up:


----------



## richsadams

rocko said:


> Then away we go ... see you all in about 6 hours. Thanks.
> 
> EDIT: All done - looks good so far ...


Um...so let us all know how you managed to find those extra hours to watch all those additional recorded shows you'll soon have.  Congrats BTW!


----------



## jlib

rocko said:


> ...I'd like to take the [already upraded] 750GB and preserve recordings on to a 1TB drive...


WinMFS allows multiple upgrades like this. Problems only arise if you are using a >1TB destination for the second upgrade or if you used the released version of MFSLive for the original upgrade (or MFS Tools via the now forgotten Bumwine method). Since you used WinMFS originally you _should_ have no problems.


----------



## dgarrick

The oft-poo poo'ed red-haired stepchild drive WD10EARS is on sale at Newegg:

"Newegg has the Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EARS 1TB 5400RPM/64MB SataII Power Saving Hard Drive for a low $84.98 Free Shipping after Coupon Code: EMCYZNN29 (Exp 1/28)".

As I have stated before in this thread, this drive works fine as my TivoHD internal upgrade drive installed for about two weeks now.


----------



## schwinn

Regarding deals...

Newegg has the WD10EADS for $84.99 as well (free shipping too)... it's basically the 32MB cache version of the same drive: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136317

Also ZipZoomFly has the WD10EADS drive for $74.99 (after $15 MIR), free shipped: http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10009901&ps=homain1

Anyone have any last-minute opinions for/against either of these models for the TivoHD?

EDIT: If you want to get crazier with the process, the ZZF product can be purchased with ebillme.com (not the same as bill-me-later) where you can enter a coupon code "helpHAITI" with ebillme as the payment method, and they will give you another $10 off (and send $10 to help Haiti)... I am trying this method (yes, I'm that cheap)... let's see what happens.


----------



## wackymann

jlib said:


> WinMFS allows multiple upgrades like this. Problems only arise if you are using a >1TB destination for the second upgrade or if you used the released version of MFSLive for the original upgrade (or MFS Tools via the now forgotten Bumwine method). Since you used WinMFS originally you _should_ have no problems.


I used the old bumwine method to go from 250 to 750 over 3 years ago, and then recently used winmfs to go from 750 to to 1 TB. I had no problems.


----------



## rocko

Thanks to all. I'm glad you all piped up since it's not abunduntly clear whether or not it can be done. Apparently it can and that saved a lot of grief since my 750GB drive was about 3/4 full.


----------



## rocko

richsadams said:


> Um...so let us all know how you managed to find those extra hours to watch all those additional recorded shows you'll soon have.  Congrats BTW!


It's called unemployment.


----------



## lew

schwinn said:


> Regarding deals...
> 
> Newegg has the WD10EADS for $84.99 as well (free shipping too)... it's basically the 32MB cache version of the same drive: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136317
> 
> Also ZipZoomFly has the WD10EADS drive for $74.99 (after $15 MIR), free shipped: http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10009901&ps=homain1
> 
> Anyone have any last-minute opinions for/against either of these models for the TivoHD?
> 
> EDIT: If you want to get crazier with the process, the ZZF product can be purchased with ebillme.com (not the same as bill-me-later) where you can enter a coupon code "helpHAITI" with ebillme as the payment method, and they will give you another $10 off (and send $10 to help Haiti)... I am trying this method (yes, I'm that cheap)... let's see what happens.


I'd go with ZZF. Newegg has been know to pack drives with peanuts. Not good. Last time I ordered from ZZF they properly packed OEM drives.


----------



## winterj

Upgraded my new Tivo HD with the WD10EVDS last night using WinMFS in Windows 7 64-bit. No problems, took about 15 minutes total, and Tivo is working wonderfully.

The date on my drive is 11/27/2009. Still have to test IntelliPark soft reboot issue; I was going to attempt to disable it during the upgrade but couldn't boot using the wdidle3 CD with my SATA DVD drive. Going to try the USB flash drive instead.

Thanks to the community for troubleshooting these problems before I had to!

EDIT: WD10EVDS needed wdidle3. Ran it with /S255 switch instead of /D.


----------



## mkomyluck

mkomyluck said:


> READ THIS
> 
> So I was at my local traders village when I run across this uverse DVR box for sale for $30 so I offered the guy $15 for it and he accepted. When I took it home I promptly opened it to find to my amazement a WD5000AVVS-63ZWB0 <---Western Digital Hard Drive, this is one of the 500GB drives that come in the MY DVR EXPANDER. Last night I ordered a Rocket Fish eSATA hard drive enclosure for $18, according to UPS will arrive on Monday. For $33 500 GB external Drive...NICE!!!


although this drive is one from MY DVR EXPANDER, it was in a U-Verse DVR, is there anything i should do to this drive before i try to marry it with my TiVo??

I am sure it has a proprietary AT&T interface on it.


----------



## blicken

Just did a 1TB drive replacement on my S3 -- I'd installed a 1TB 7200RPM Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 in mid-2008, consolidating the original 250GB drive in my S3 with a 750GB eSATA that I'd been using. It had been working well, but in the last six months I'd noticed an increasing number of video glitches, and in the last month I'd been getting excessive stuttering during playback.

I ended up ordering the WD10EADS from newegg for $85 shipped. I used dd_rescue on the MFSLive CD to do a full drive copy -- it found 128K of bad sectors, but otherwise was fine. I used the separate WDIDLE3 utility to turn off the idle delay to make the drive reboot friendly and also used hdparm to set it to low acoustics.

So far, it's working very well. Shows which I couldn't watch before due to stuttering are displaying without problem, and the drive is so much quieter than the old one! I'm not sure what I'm doing with the old drive yet; I might try to run some diagnostics on it and put it into use as a backup disk.


----------



## richsadams

For those who have been playing along, newer TiVo HDXL's have been the apparent victim of the "Intellipark" issue for a couple of months now as well. A TCF member just posted that TiVo has asked him to beta test a fix. More here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7735391#post7735391

It will be interesting to see if they can address this by pushing an update...and how it will affect drives that have already been "fixed". Stay tuned!


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Um...so let us all know how you managed to find those extra hours to watch all those additional recorded shows you'll soon have.  Congrats BTW!


OH no! Are we talking about that special WINmfs option again often mentioned in song and story?


----------



## MPSAN

lew said:


> I'd go with ZZF. Newegg has been know to pack drives with peanuts. Not good. Last time I ordered from ZZF they properly packed OEM drives.


+1

I have bought from both but must admit that ZZF has GREAT packaging and had the HDD in a complete foam package! I use the package for my original 160GB drive pulled from the THD I upgraded.


----------



## Aventinus22

I finally have a working upgraded Tivo HD. I was having lots of problems with pixelation and freezing and to a lesser degree a sluggish remote and an occasional reboot or two. My previous setup included a 500 gb MyDVR Expander and an MCard.

The Kickstart 54 SMART tests all passed for both internal and external drives. The Kickstart 57 test went to green screen but after 5 minutes it rebooted. So at this point I am sure sure if I have a hard drive problem but I decided to go with an internal drive upgrade.

I purchased a 1 tb WD10EADS. It had a Nov 1 2009 build date. I started the process of un-marrying the external drive. I followed the procedure, got the External Storage Missing screen followed by the Warning screen followed by the Removing external storage screen, but instead of removing the drive, it rebooted after about 10 seconds only to endlessly repeat these screens. So I re-attached the external drive. It booted to green screen which lasted about 10 seconds then rebooted, back to green screen etc.

It may not have been before, but now, my internal hard drive was shot. This meant that I needed to go the Instantcake route. So at this point, I downloaded and installed Instantcake. Then I ran wdidle3 /D which disabled the Intellipark feature. The I ran WinMFS to supersize the drive. All this went well.

I now installed the drive into the Tivo and it booted, but there was no background, just text on a gray screen. I went through the guided setup anyway. After that, I went to Live TV. No picture and after a few seconds I got a message from the cable card saying I had to call my cable provider. So I called Cablevision and explained to them that I had my Tivo repaired and needed my cable card reactivated. They did that while I was on the phone, and now I have TV. The Tivo background on the menus also returned. So now I start checking things out when I realize that I am not getting all the channels. I called Cablevision back and they tried to get the rest of the channels working, with no success. They said that I needed a new cable card and scheduled a tech to come and replace it.

The next day the tech shows up and tries to replace the card. When he inserts the new card, the screen initially says its an Scard, then after a few seconds, it very breifly says Mcard but then goes to an error screen with error number 161-52. After trying some things, he concludes the the new card is no good. He doesn't have another Mcard so he leaves to get another card. He returns with 3 cards and all 3 do exactly the same thing. So then I suggest the we go back to the original card. This card is recognized as an Mcard and no error. So then he calls it in and asks them to "unbind and bind the card". This finally works. I am now getting all the channels.

I knew the Instantcake did not come with the up to date Tivo software so I went to the System Information screen to see what I had. It was at 9.2a, but I also noticed that my recording capacity was only 144 hours HD. I wondered, did I do something wrong when supersizing? Anyway, I connected to the Tivo service to get the latest revision software. When the download completed, the status line said: Pending Restart.
So I went for the soft reboot, and success. I am now at revision 11.0d but to my surprise, the recording capacity is now listed at 157 hours.

It took a while but my upgrade is complete and my pixelation and freezing problems are gone(1 day so far).


----------



## wackymann

Aventinus22 said:


> I knew the Instantcake did not come with the up to date Tivo software so I went to the System Information screen to see what I had. It was at 9.2a, but I also noticed that my recording capacity was only 144 hours HD. I wondered, did I do something wrong when supersizing? Anyway, I connected to the Tivo service to get the latest revision software. When the download completed, the status line said: Pending Restart.
> So I went for the soft reboot, and success. I am now at revision 11.0d but to my surprise, the recording capacity is now listed at 157 hours.
> 
> It took a while but my upgrade is complete and my pixelation and freezing problems are gone(1 day so far).


I believe at some point Tivo changed their formula for computing the number of hours. That could explain the difference. Glad you got it working finally!


----------



## richsadams

Aventinus22 said:


> I finally have a working upgraded Tivo HD. <snip>


Wow! You are a real trooper! Sounded very frustrating but glad you hung in there to the successful conclusion. Congrats and enjoy your "new" TiVo! 



wackymann said:


> I believe at some point Tivo changed their formula for computing the number of hours. That could explain the difference. Glad you got it working finally!


That is exactly right. :up:


----------



## mkomyluck

mkomyluck said:


> although this drive is one from MY DVR EXPANDER, it was in a U-Verse DVR, is there anything i should do to this drive before i try to marry it with my TiVo??
> 
> I am sure it has a proprietary AT&T interface on it.


HELP?


----------



## WillyChuck

Folks, just for the record -- I replaced my Australian Series3's internal 160GB drive with a WD10EARS and so far so good; works perfectly. Disk was 'created' with WinMFS under Windows7.


----------



## richsadams

mkomyluck said:


> HELP?


IIRC your plan is to simply slip the drive into a new eSATA enclosure? If you have a TiVo Series3 you can connect it and follow the on-screen instructions...basically plug and play. TiVo will automatically reformat the drive so there's nothing you need to do.

If you have a TiVo HD the same thing may apply if it's the exact same drive as used in the WD My DVR Expander. (TiVo recognizes the drives by the model number.) However if it doesn't recognize the drive you will need to pull the TiVo internal drive, connect both it and your new drive to a PC and use winMFS or MFSLive to marry the two drives.

FWIW if you do have to pull the internal drive my advice would be to simply use winMFS to image the 500GB drive with the original and install it internally. The miniscule 160GB drive isn't worth using for anything but a backup IMHO. Put the original drive on the shelf in case you need it later and you should be in business. All of the instructions are on the first post of this thread.

Hope that helps and let us know how things go!


----------



## richsadams

WillyChuck said:


> Folks, just for the record -- I replaced my Australian Series3's internal 160GB drive with a WD10EARS and so far so good; works perfectly. Disk was 'created' with WinMFS under Windows7.


Sweet as mate! Did you disable (or need to disable) the Intellipark "feature"? Any issues with a menu restart? TIA for the info and enjoy!


----------



## SAH2

blicken said:


> Just did a 1TB drive replacement on my S3 -- I'd installed a 1TB 7200RPM Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 in mid-2008, consolidating the original 250GB drive in my S3 with a 750GB eSATA that I'd been using. It had been working well, but in the last six months I'd noticed an increasing number of video glitches, and in the last month I'd been getting excessive stuttering during playback.


This is exactly what I need to do. I have read through the FAQ's, but am a little confused as to which process to follow. I have the original drive in my S3 and a FAP 750 that has been there since the weekend the original kickstart option was discovered.

Can someone verify that I can combine the existing recordings to a new internal 1TB drive and also prepare the drive for a "future" external drive? (I have another 1TB drive and Amtek enclosure, but do not need to add it right now)

The FAQ's have grown so much since I added the first external drive, I want to make sure I am doing this the right way.
Thanks


----------



## Gerhard

Gerhard said:


> BTW:
> 
> I did a quick search and I noted that no one has mentioned the AV-GP WD15EVDS drives for use with upgrading a TivoHD. [in this thread]
> 
> Has anyone had any success with that unit??
> 
> I just picked up a TivoHD (already have three others, and this will replace one of the TivoS2s)... and I plan on using that drive to repalce the internal drive on the new TivoHD.
> 
> GB


So the answer is that yes, after you run the WDIDLE /D command on AV-GP WD15 EVDS drive, it seems to work fine.

I took the TivoHD 160GB drive, backed it up, and restored it to a 1.5TB drive.

The Tivo now lists that I've got 198 Hours of HD and 1733 Hours of SD.

Neato.

GB


----------



## yukit

WillyChuck said:


> Folks, just for the record -- I replaced my Australian Series3's internal 160GB drive with a WD10EARS and so far so good; works perfectly. Disk was 'created' with WinMFS under Windows7.


It is good know that EARS drives work fine in THD.

I wonder if WinMFS running on WinXP (or any other OSes not aware of the 4k sector) would have a problem when the drive is connected to Tivo.


----------



## qz3fwd

bkdtv said:


> It looks like he wrote his own program to expand another TiVo partition that WinMFS does not touch.


So this is a limitation of WinMFS and not the Tivo kernel SATA module (drive) as previously stated?

This means a simple update to WinMFS would allow 2TB HDD's to be used it seems?


----------



## yukit

Gerhard said:


> So the answer is that yes, after you run the WDIDLE /D command on AV-GP WD15 EVDS drive, it seems to work fine.
> 
> I took the TivoHD 160GB drive, backed it up, and restored it to a 1.5TB drive.
> 
> The Tivo now lists that I've got 198 Hours of HD and 1733 Hours of SD.
> 
> Neato.
> 
> GB


I am tempted to replace a 1TB drive in my THD with a new 1.5TB to get additional ~40 hours of HD recording, but I think this won't work with WinMFS copy. As I understand, I have to go back to my original THD image to get the full 198 hours with a 1.5TB drive.

This would not be practical for me since I don't want to lose existing recordings on the current 1TB drive. Is this correct?


----------



## bkdtv

qz3fwd said:


> So this is a limitation of WinMFS and not the Tivo kernel SATA module (drive) as previously stated?


The partition limit is specific to the SATA driver. The ability to expand only a single partition on an internal drive is a limitation of WinMFS.



qz3fwd said:


> This means a simple update to WinMFS would allow 2TB HDD's to be used it seems?


If I was a simple update, I suspect spike would've done it already.



yukit said:


> I am tempted to replace a 1TB drive in my THD with a new 1.5TB to get additional ~40 hours of HD recording, but I think this won't work with WinMFS copy. As I understand, I have to go back to my original THD image to get the full 198 hours with a 1.5TB drive.
> 
> Is this correct?


Yes.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

Gerhard said:


> Has anyone tried taking a WD MyDVR Expander, removing the 1TB drive, and adding a 2TB WD drive to it?


The MyDVR expander is just a box. There is nothing magical about it. Any external box would serve the purpose.

The two secrets are:

1) The TiVo HD queries the external drive for its identification string. The TiVo HD recognizes the 1 TB drive in the MyDVR enclosure. That string is what it looks for, not the box itself. What you propose wouldn't work unless the TiVo HD recognized the identification string of the 2 TB drive.

2) There are a lot of "do's and don'ts" involved in expanding. The rules are different for internal vs external. The FAQ covers this in detail.


----------



## raianoat

I recently published a post about my drive upgrade experience. Thanks again to everybody who helped me.

http://www.tivoblog.com/archives/20...-3-tivos-hard-drive-using-mfslive-and-winmfs/


----------



## richsadams

raianoat said:


> I recently published a post about my drive upgrade experience. Thanks again to everybody who helped me.
> 
> http://www.tivoblog.com/archives/20...-3-tivos-hard-drive-using-mfslive-and-winmfs/


Very nice work. :up: Thanks for that.

BTW, you really should consider removing the link in your "Video of the Day" to that terrible YouTube TiVo Upgrade Video. As I commented there, the intentions were good but it's so out of sequence, missing so many parts and dead wrong on a couple of occasions that it will only frustrate folks IMHO.

Nice work on the blog otherwise!


----------



## Tico

richsadams said:


> Very nice work. :up: Thanks for that.
> 
> BTW, you really should consider removing the link in your "Video of the Day" to that terrible YouTube TiVo Upgrade Video. As I commented there, the intentions were good but it's so out of sequence, missing so many parts and dead wrong on a couple of occasions that it will only frustrate folks IMHO.
> 
> Nice work on the blog otherwise!


Any reason this drive wouldn;t work?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...=OTC-C173T-_-Hard+Drives-_-SAMSUNG-_-22152173


----------



## raianoat

richsadams said:


> Very nice work. :up: Thanks for that.
> 
> BTW, you really should consider removing the link in your "Video of the Day" to that terrible YouTube TiVo Upgrade Video. As I commented there, the intentions were good but it's so out of sequence, missing so many parts and dead wrong on a couple of occasions that it will only frustrate folks IMHO.
> 
> Nice work on the blog otherwise!


Thanks for the recommendation. I've gone ahead and removed the embedded video.

http://www.tivoblog.com/archives/20...o-using-winmfs/comment-page-1/#comment-387208


----------



## richsadams

Tico said:


> Any reason this drive wouldn;t work?
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...=OTC-C173T-_-Hard+Drives-_-SAMSUNG-_-22152173


Funny you should ask. As an experiment I tried using that exact drive as an upgrade in my TiVo HD using winMFS. For whatever reason it refused to boot up. It would just hang on the Welcome screen (indicating that the MB couldn't talk to the HDD). I retried it a few more times (saving programs, only saving settings, etc.) but no luck. I haven't had any issues with any of the other recommended drives...but that one just wouldn't play nice. I'm using it as a backup drive with one of my Mac's and it's been flawless. No idea why it wouldn't work w/TiVo...at least mine in any case. IIRC some other folks had problems with some Sammy's too so that's probably why they aren't recommended.

That said, I think a couple of other folks here were successful using it but I'd wait until they confirm...and confirm that it's that exact drive as some others are using Sammy's, but different models. Good price though!

Happy upgrading!


----------



## richsadams

raianoat said:


> Thanks for the recommendation. I've gone ahead and removed the embedded video.
> 
> http://www.tivoblog.com/archives/20...o-using-winmfs/comment-page-1/#comment-387208


Good idea. The guy made a nice video...good quality and all so it's too bad it wasn't very accurate. Maybe you can talk him into updating it?


----------



## dmartin5454

I finally successfully completed my Tivo HD disk upgrade. I sent the disk that failed back to Provantage. The folks there were very nice and helpful. I opted to pay for a second drive up front instead of waiting for them to receive the bad drive and then ship out a new one. They will refund the payment for the second drive after they receive the first (bad) one. That way I was able to get a new one quicker.

The drive was the WD15EVDS, with a manufacturing date of Nov. 11, 2009. When I ran wdidle3 /r on it, it reported an 8000 ms idle time. I used the wdidle3 /d, and confirmed that it was then set to disabled. I even compared it to the original 160GB drive that came with the Tivo, and it showed as disabled as well.

I gave up on my quest to use my laptop for this. I had two SATA/IDE to USB adapters that I wanted to use. As everyone knows, you can't run wdidle3 through USB. I had borrowed a friend's PC to do that, but then I wanted to use my laptop and USB adapters to run WinMFS. I ran it, and it seemed to complete. (This time I saw the pop-up asking about limiting the expansion of the partition to 1TiB.) After I installed the new drive, it would not boot, it would just stay at the just a few minutes more screen. I tried different kickstarts, but nothing worked. I threw in the towell, and borrowed my friend's PC again. I ran WinMFS with the original and new disk drives directly connected to the SATA connectors on the motherboard. (Direct SATA goes *much* faster than through the USB adapaters, but that was no surprise.) After the supersize, I compared the MSFinfo results from the laptop attempts with the PC attempt, and as far as I could tell, they looked identical. However, this time the new drive booted with no problems. I also verified that there were no issues with a soft reboot. Everything looks good, and I now have 198 HD hours, and am finally a happy camper. 

Thanks to everyone who as contributed to the tools and experiences on this forum!!


----------



## DallasFlier

schwinn said:


> Regarding deals...
> 
> Newegg has the WD10EADS for $84.99 as well (free shipping too)... it's basically the 32MB cache version of the same drive: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136317
> 
> Also ZipZoomFly has the WD10EADS drive for $74.99 (after $15 MIR), free shipped: http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10009901&ps=homain1
> 
> Anyone have any last-minute opinions for/against either of these models for the TivoHD?
> 
> EDIT: If you want to get crazier with the process, the ZZF product can be purchased with ebillme.com (not the same as bill-me-later) where you can enter a coupon code "helpHAITI" with ebillme as the payment method, and they will give you another $10 off (and send $10 to help Haiti)... I am trying this method (yes, I'm that cheap)... let's see what happens.


Thanks for that! I've suddenly started having LOTS of pixellation and audio dropouts the last month or so with my 18 month old WD10EVDS, so just ordered one of these from ZZF using eBillme. $79.99 with free shipping BEFORE rebate is great, and I like the $10 donation to Haiti also! It will be even sweeter after I get the $15 rebate making my final price $64.99.

Frankly, I don't see how eBillme can afford the $10 + $10 promotion, but I'm not complaining!


----------



## rocko

raianoat said:


> I recently published a post about my drive upgrade experience. Thanks again to everybody who helped me.
> 
> http://www.tivoblog.com/archives/20...-3-tivos-hard-drive-using-mfslive-and-winmfs/


Nice. BTW, MFS Supersize will get you another ~14 hours of HD recording - up to 157 HD hours. You can hook it up and supersize it with WinMFS without going through the whole upgrade process again. Just a FYI.


----------



## richsadams

dmartin5454 said:


> I finally successfully completed my Tivo HD disk upgrade.


Phew! You deserve a medal of some sort! Glad to hear that everything is working now. Congrats and enjoy!


----------



## jonglee

I followed the great instructions here and upgraded my TivoHD to 198 HD hours by using a 2TB Seagate drive. One small correction is that I did NOT need to use my original HDD that came with the Tivo but backup the image using WinMFS from my previous 750GB HDD and worked great. Saw a note saying that it needed to use the original 160GB image but did not have to.


----------



## rocko

jonglee said:


> I followed the great instructions here and upgraded my TivoHD to 198 HD hours by using a 2TB Seagate drive. One small correction is that I did NOT need to use my original HDD that came with the Tivo but backup the image using WinMFS from my previous 750GB HDD and worked great. Saw a note saying that it needed to use the original 160GB image but did not have to.


I think that aapplies only when copying to preserve recordings. Truncated backup does just that - truncates the additional partition that WinMFS adds. At least I think that's what it does ...


----------



## bubagump

I read the FAQ and if I understand correctly you cannot access the full capacity of a 2TB drive if you upgraded a TivoHD using a 2TB drive.
I see auctions from reputable sellers on ebay selling 2TB Tivo HD upgrades with 310+hrs of HD recording.

Is there a way I can upgrade my Tivo (currently has a 1Tb drive) with a single 2TB internal drive or two 1TB internal drives? 
Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## drhankz

bubagump said:


> I read the FAQ and if I understand correctly you cannot access the full capacity of a 2TB drive if you upgraded a TivoHD using a 2TB drive.
> I see auctions from reputable sellers on ebay selling 2TB Tivo HD upgraded with 310+hrs of HD recording.
> 
> Is there a way I can upgrade my Tivo (currently has a 1Tb drive) with a single 2TB internal drive or two 1TB internal drives?
> Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.


NOT unless you can get the SECRET Recipe from the eBay Sellers who
figured out some trick.


----------



## bubagump

drhankz said:


> NOT unless you can get the SECRET Recipe from the eBay Sellers who
> figured out some trick.


Dang! I wrote to one of the sellers and he/she said that they figured out a way to do something with the partition size and that is the reason they can make the 2TB drives to work....


----------



## drhankz

bubagump said:


> Dang! I wrote to one of the sellers and he/she said that they figured out a way to do something with the partition size and that is the reason they can make the 2TB drives to work....


THEY DO HAVE A SECRET and I'm sure they will Capitalize on it.

Wouldn't You


----------



## dmartin5454

drhankz said:


> THEY DO HAVE A SECRET and I'm sure they will Capitalize on it.


You would think that someone who purchased their product would be willing to run MSFinfo on the drive and share the secret with the rest of us. I would think that WinMFS could be modified to incorporate their partition layout. Is there more to it than that?


----------



## drhankz

dmartin5454 said:


> You would think that someone who purchased their product would be willing to run MSFinfo on the drive and share the secret with the rest of us. I would think that WinMFS could be modified to incorporate their partition layout. Is there more to it than that?


The person who should do that is *bkdtv* :up:

The Thread Starter


----------



## richsadams

drhankz said:


> The person who should do that is *bkdtv* :up:
> 
> The Thread Starter


My vote would be for Spike, the author of winMFS/MFSLive, to crack the secret. I also suspect that he has taken a look at it (he makes several references to the ebay 2TB drives on his forum) and if it was an easy update he would have done it a while ago. From what I've read it entails a lot of coding, not just a line or two, and that it's far from easy.

I also know that Lou at DVRUpgrade.com is not happy with the ebay guy because he copied a lot of the info directly from Lou's website to his own ebay page, so Lou may have some stake in getting the process out into the public domain as well.

We'll see what happens...stay tuned!


----------



## drhankz

richsadams said:


> My vote would be for Spike, the author of winMFS/MFSLive, to crack the secret. I also suspect that he has taken a look at it (he makes several references to the ebay 2TB drives on his forum) and if it was an easy update he would have done it a while ago. From what I've read it entails a lot of coding, not just a line or two, and that it's far from easy.
> 
> I also know that Lou at DVRUpgrade.com is not happy with the ebay guy because he copied a lot of the info directly from Lou's website to his own ebay page, so Lou may have some stake in getting the process out into the public domain as well.
> 
> We'll see what happens...stay tuned!


Go Lou - Go Lou - Go Lou


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

richsadams said:


> I also know that Lou at DVRUpgrade.com is not happy with the ebay guy because he copied a lot of the info directly from Lou's website to his own ebay page, so Lou may have some stake in getting the process out into the public domain as well.


If the information is literally "copied", why doesn't DVRUpgrade send a copyright notice to Ebay? That should get the attention of the DVR dude!

OTOH a 1 TB drive from DVRUpgrade is $240, and it's only $120 from ebay. That's a lot of extra bread.


----------



## Majik45

Nevermind, I've read through the Forums. Going to see if I can find a PC that has a SATA connection so I can just buy the WD10EVDS drive as that is close to what my brother has. I did my previously upgrade with only my laptop.


----------



## jlib

dmartin5454 said:


> You would think that someone who purchased their product would be willing to run MSFinfo on the drive and share the secret with the rest of us. I would think that WinMFS could be modified to incorporate their partition layout. Is there more to it than that?


It is not so much a secret but rather there are no casual user tools such as WinMFS to enable the functionality while preserving such desirable things as recordings and Cable Card pairing. Spike says they are probably using a modified mfstools and some manual partition editing to create multiple media partitions. He also says "it's fairly easy to do" (but Spike is talking as a programmer). Basically, only one master drive of a certain model needs to be created. Then just use Linux dd to clone as many of them as you want. That is what the eBay guy is doing.


----------



## bubagump

jlib said:


> It is not so much a secret but rather there are no casual user tools such as WinMFS to enable the functionality while preserving such desirable things as recordings and Cable Card pairing. Spike says they are probably using a modified mfstools and some manual partition editing to create multiple media partitions. He also says "it's fairly easy to do" (but Spike is talking as a programmer). Basically, only one master drive of a certain model needs to be created. Then just use Linux dd to clone as many of them as you want. That is what the eBay guy is doing.


It is indeed true that currently there is no way to preserve your recordings when upgrading with a 2TB drive.


----------



## raianoat

rocko said:


> Nice. BTW, MFS Supersize will get you another ~14 hours of HD recording - up to 157 HD hours. You can hook it up and supersize it with WinMFS without going through the whole upgrade process again. Just a FYI.


Thanks. Somebody else on Twitter recommended the same thing.

I thought I did it when I upgraded the drive the first time but I most not have. In any case, I'm not in a huge rush since I haven't even come close to filling up the drive (minus the ~14 extra hours that a SuperSize will give me).

While we're on the topic of SuperSize. Does anybody know how supersize works? How does it "magically" get extra space? My guess is that it reduces the size of one of the partitions.


----------



## dmartin5454

raianoat said:


> While we're on the topic of SuperSize. Does anybody know how supersize works? How does it "magically" get extra space? My guess is that it reduces the size of one of the partitions.


This is addressed in the FAQ found at http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784 :



> 12. What does the "MfsSupersize" option do?
> 
> By default, roughly 10% of the internal drive is reserved for "tivoclips" -- video advertisements that are downloaded to the TiVo. If you use the MfsSupersize option on an internal drive upgrade, then only 10GB will be reserved for advertisements and the rest of the space is recovered for use with recordings.
> 
> Without MfsSupersize, a 1TB drive will add ~144 HD hours. With MfsSupersize, a 1TB drive will add ~157 HD hours.
> 
> There are no known ill effects associated with the Supersize option. In fact, TiVo appears to use that option on its own TivoHD XL (1TB) to provide 157 HD hours.


----------



## DallasFlier

Majik45 said:


> Hey guys, upgraded my Tivo HD probably a little over a year ago with help from this forum. Bought my brother a Tivo HD for Christmas, and now he wants me to upgrade his Internal hard drive for him too. Anyone have a good deal on a drive that works now, as I've been sifting through all the problems with the WD hard drives on here and was wondering if someone had a recommendation for a good cheap drive, someone who went through the upgrade recently. I bought a WD10EVCS 1TB drive for myself. Thanks.


Always good to check the last page or two of this thread, along with the separate forum for deals. Just yesterday in this thread, this was posted:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7740400#post7740400

I think $80 (shipped) before rebate and $65 after rebate, with a $10 donation to Haiti relief thrown in for good measure, is a pretty good deal for a 1T drive.


----------



## WillyChuck

richsadams said:


> Sweet as mate! Did you disable (or need to disable) the Intellipark "feature"? Any issues with a menu restart? TIA for the info and enjoy!


The EARS drives don't have Intellipark AFAIK?!... I can't comment on the menu restart -- I just powered-on and have left it that way!


----------



## richsadams

WillyChuck said:


> The EARS drives don't have Intellipark AFAIK?!... I can't comment on the menu restart -- I just powered-on and have left it that way!


I'm almost certain all WD GP drives (including the EARS models) have the Intellipark "feature". A menu restart may cause it to hang at the Welcome screen. if so you can power cycle it (unplug it and plug it back in) and all should be well. About the only time it will be a problem is when TiVo issues an update (about every quarter). But they are working on it and the next update may have a fix anyway.

Enjoy!


----------



## schwinn

schwinn said:


> Regarding deals...
> 
> Newegg has the WD10EADS for $84.99 as well (free shipping too)... it's basically the 32MB cache version of the same drive: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136317
> 
> Also ZipZoomFly has the WD10EADS drive for $74.99 (after $15 MIR), free shipped: http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10009901&ps=homain1
> 
> Anyone have any last-minute opinions for/against either of these models for the TivoHD?
> 
> EDIT: If you want to get crazier with the process, the ZZF product can be purchased with ebillme.com (not the same as bill-me-later) where you can enter a coupon code "helpHAITI" with ebillme as the payment method, and they will give you another $10 off (and send $10 to help Haiti)... I am trying this method (yes, I'm that cheap)... let's see what happens.


FWIW, the payment was sent ($79.99)... it's sent from my bank, and you simply enter the e-bill information. In other words, you are sending ebillme a payment, and the account number, etc, lets them know who you are paying for. So, in this sense, it's a pretty neat/secure payment.

The payment was received by them over the weekend (paid on Friday) and I got shipment notification from ZZF yesterday... so it all appears to be working well. Last step will be the mailin rebate... but at least this part of it all seems to be going well!


----------



## richsadams

schwinn said:


> Last step will be the mailin rebate... but at least this part of it all seems to be going well!


No...the last step is enjoying your "new supersized" TiVo!


----------



## VodkaStr8Up

Hello,

Earlier this year I got a TiVoHD and replaced the drive with a 1TB drive but did not expand into the reserved storage area. I am now getting a second TiVoHD and will again replace the drive with a 1TB drive. However, I'm considering expanding with this one. Will using the storage normally reserved for commercials, etc. limit me from functionality such as downloading movies from the internet? Is there any functionality that I may need that will be limited by using the reserved storage?

Thanks!


----------



## MPSAN

VodkaStr8Up said:


> Hello,
> 
> Earlier this year I got a TiVoHD and replaced the drive with a 1TB drive but did not expand into the reserved storage area. I am now getting a second TiVoHD and will again replace the drive with a 1TB drive. However, I'm considering expanding with this one. Will using the storage normally reserved for commercials, etc. limit me from functionality such as downloading movies from the internet? Is there any functionality that I may need that will be limited by using the reserved storage?
> 
> Thanks!


From the FAQ #22 (not #21 as mentioned).

*There are no known ill effects associated with the Supersize option. In fact, TiVo appears to use that option on its own TivoHD XL (1TB) to provide 157 HD hours.
*

I did this to mine. Also, I think you can do this to the one you have now without needing to backup.


----------



## S3-2501

Here's an update on my experience with a 1TB Seagate Pipeline upgrade to my TivoHD.

After about a week, the drive became increasingly noisy, but in a strange way. Instead of lots of loud clattering and such, there seemed to be an intermittent low-frequency vibration-like noise emitting from around the Tivo. It sounded very similar to taking a fingernail and gentely running it accross the textured finish of the Tivo. Both the clattering of the drive and it's normal vibration seemed to be resonating with the Tivo's case.

I took the rubber shock-absorbing strips from the housing of my recently deceased DVR expander and placed them under the Tivo's feet on either side, running front to back. This elevated the Tivo off the shelf and helped absorb some of the vibration. 

Unfortunately, there was still some remaining hard to localize vibration being emitted from the Tivo. I then guessed that some of the vibration from the Tivo was reverberating in the inexpensive DVD player resting on top of the Tivo. I placed some old mousepads under the DVD player and that also helped further reduce the noise.

Again, it wasn't the volume of the noise (though at times it did seem to get loud,) but rather the low-frequency nature of the noise that was very unpleasant. It's like constantly hearing the faint bass-line from a neighbor in the distance playing bass-heavy music.

Yesterday I opened up the Tivo and re-tightened all the screws, especially the grommet screws holding the drive to the mounting plate. I put everything back together, placed the Tivo back on the rubber strips, and thankfully last night the noise was finally faint enough to be barely noticeable.

I have had absolutely no problems with the drive in terms of functionality, but potential buyers should be aware that the Pipeline drives can apparently cause a fair bit of vibration and resonance with the TivoHD cabinet.

I'll post back if anything else noteworthy occurs.


----------



## pl1

S3-2501 said:


> <snip>After about a week, the drive became increasingly noisy, but in a strange way. Instead of lots of loud clattering and such, there seemed to be an intermittent low-frequency vibration-like noise emitting from around the Tivo. It sounded very similar to taking a fingernail and gentely running it accross the textured finish of the Tivo. Both the clattering of the drive and it's normal vibration seemed to be resonating with the Tivo's case.<snip>


I can say I've noticed the exact same thing with my Seagate Pipeline Drive. If there is no recording going on, it is quiet. If there is one tuner recording, the vibration is noticeable. If both tuners are recording, it is even louder. I can actually feel the vibration on the side of the TiVo. Just like you, I DO find the low level noise annoying. Not unbearable, but noticeable. I do not hear anything from the WD 1g drives, but, I also had one of those die withing 6 months, so, whatever!


----------



## rocko

pl1 said:


> I can say I've noticed the exact same thing with my Seagate Pipeline Drive. If there is no recording going on, it is quiet. If there is one tuner recording, the vibration is noticeable. If both tuners are recording, it is even louder. I can actually feel the vibration on the side of the TiVo. Just like you, I DO find the low level noise annoying. Not unbearable, but noticeable. I do not hear anything from the WD 1g drives, but, I also had one of those die withing 6 months, so, whatever!


That's odd since your TiVo is always recording. You have two 30-minute buffers that are constantly filling so ...


----------



## pl1

rocko said:


> That's odd since your TiVo is always recording. You have two 30-minute buffers that are constantly filling so ...


True enough. But, when there are no red lights on, it is quiet. Maybe there is more going on? Maybe it has something to do with the length of the recording, for example a 3 hour sports event.


----------



## Miggsoo3

Just wanted to thank everyone on this forum and especially bkdtv for the great FAQ. I updated my Tivo HD with the WD10EVDS manufacture date of 12/20/09. Ran the Wdidle3 to disable the Intellipark feature. For my installation I used Dual HDD Docking station from Monoprice connected via USB to my laptop. :up:


----------



## bmal1

pl1 said:


> I can say I've noticed the exact same thing with my Seagate Pipeline Drive. If there is no recording going on, it is quiet. If there is one tuner recording, the vibration is noticeable. If both tuners are recording, it is even louder. I can actually feel the vibration on the side of the TiVo. Just like you, I DO find the low level noise annoying. Not unbearable, but noticeable. I do not hear anything from the WD 1g drives, but, I also had one of those die withing 6 months, so, whatever!


I ordered the Seagate Pipeline 1TB HD ST31000322CS a few days ago. Based on what pl1 and S3-2501 said about the noise they are experiencing, I just ordered the WD10EVDS and will be returning the Seagate.

I don't own a desktop that uses sata drives to run wdidle3.exe. I only have laptops. But I will find someone w/a sata drive desktop who will let me use it. Heck I might take my chances and live with the soft boot issue as long as I don't have to listen to my wife say repeatedly "where is that noise coming from?" She hears everything.

Actually I think I my TivoHD may already have the soft boot issue. I ordered it on Jan 1. After delivery and setup, I connected to the Tivo Service. The status was "Pending... Restart" . I did the restart from the menu. When it came back up it hung. I unplugged it, plugged it back in then it started with no problems. I will check the original internal drive once I pull it out.

Great forum and Great FAQ. I can't wait to upgrade my TivoHD. I will post the results when I am finished.


----------



## Mahty

bmal1 said:


> Actually I think I my TivoHD may already have the soft boot issue. I ordered it on Jan 1. After delivery and setup, I connected to the Tivo Service. The status was "Pending... Restart" . I did the restart from the menu. When it came back up it hung. I unplugged it, plugged it back in then it started with no problems. I will check the original internal drive once I pull it out.


If you do have an IntelliPark issue with a brand new TiVoHD (as others may be having), you may want to consider holding off on voiding your warranty by opening the TiVoHD to do the transplant. I get the impression that TiVo may be actively pursuing this issue and you may want to keep a possible TiVo-funded upgrade option open.


----------



## CraigK

bmal1 said:


> I don't own a desktop that uses sata drives to run wdidle3.exe. I only have laptops. But I will find someone w/a sata drive desktop who will let me use it. Heck I might take my chances and live with the soft boot issue as long as I don't have to listen to my wife say repeatedly "where is that noise coming from?" She hears everything.


That's why I switched out a newly installed ST31000322CS in my wife's TiVo HD after about two weeks with a WD10EVDS back in November. The low frequency rumble was bothering her.

Luckily my EVDS pre-dated the Intellipark issue so I didn't have to deal with that.

The Seagate has been re-purposed as a backup drive for my computer.


----------



## VodkaStr8Up

Mahty said:


> you may want to consider holding off on voiding your warranty by opening the TiVoHD to do the transplant.


How does TiVo know if the TiVoHD has been opened; mine didn't have a sealed sticker?


----------



## pl1

bmal1 said:


> I ordered the Seagate Pipeline 1TB HD ST31000322CS a few days ago. Based on what pl1 and S3-2501 said about the noise they are experiencing, I just ordered the WD10EVDS and will be returning the Seagate.


Just for the record, it's not really THAT noticeable. It's not like a lot of the non-DVR drives I've used (Maxtor for example) where I could hear the annoying headseeking all the time. Boy, that drove me crazy. But, I will say that the WD drives are whisper quiet and run very cool.

Right now, I have a program recording on the Seagate Pipeline. I just pressed the mute button. I can hear absolutely no difference in either of my TiVo's, the one with the WD drive and one with the Seagate drive. I'm trying to figure out what it was that DID cause it to be so loud the other day. Maybe it's the data reorganization or something. But, still, that is not a noise I remember hearing with the WD drives.


----------



## pl1

rocko said:


> That's odd since your TiVo is always recording. You have two 30-minute buffers that are constantly filling so ...


Now I'm thinking that maybe it was a guide data reorganization while recording, since I am currently recording on one tuner, and I can not hear anything.


----------



## Da Goon

VodkaStr8Up said:


> How does TiVo know if the TiVoHD has been opened; mine didn't have a sealed sticker?


haven't seen a warranty sticker since back in the Series1 days

your tivo does upload logs every time a daily call is made however

those logs contain many details about your box, including the model # of the hard drive currently installed


----------



## bjmurphy

Hi all

As previously posted I have upgraded my Aussie TiVo but would like to post an image of my 'system information' screen and 'Now Playing' list and am wondering how to post images on this forum. I see that you can enter a url but can you just post an image???


----------



## bjmurphy

richsadams said:


> IIRC someone here said that wdidle3.exe is in fact on their website.  Folks here (including yours truly) have had less than satisfactory results trying to get answers out of WD...if they answer at all.  No need to block out the WD CSR's name. Just a wild guess...it's Raul, Paulo or some variation correct?
> 
> BTW, happy upgrading and if you have time, can you post a pic or two of your System Information and maybe Now Playing screens when you're done? I'm curious to see what an Aussie TiVo screen looks like. When we lived in NZ we hacked a Series1 and it worked like a charm, but now that they have TiVo in AU and NZ, it would be nice to get a feel for what our southern cousins are seeing. TIA.


Hi all attached are two images of my system information & now playing screen from my aussie tivo that I upgraded to a wd10evds drive.

8 days and going well, no issues at all!


----------



## Mahty

bjmurphy said:


> Hi all attached are two images of my system information & now playing screen from my aussie tivo that I upgraded to a wd10evds drive.


In the system information image, the TiVo box indicates up to 200 hours of HD recording capability and up to 400 hours of SD capability. I thought that 200 hours of HD capability would equate to a lot more than 400 hours of SD capability. Is this somehow an Australia thing?


----------



## richsadams

bjmurphy said:


> Hi all attached are two images of my system information & now playing screen from my aussie tivo that I upgraded to a wd10evds drive.
> 
> 8 days and going well, no issues at all!


That's amazing!  The screens look exactly like...U.S. screens!  Thanks for that and enjoy!


----------



## saturn456

I tried posting this on the Series3 forum without any response. I have searched the forum but cannot find the exact answer I am looking for.

I have read the upgrade tread and I see that a single drive HD has a max capacity of 1TB while a single drive HD XL has a max capacity of 2TB. Is this limit imposed by the hardware or how the original drive was formatted? 

Is there any physical difference in the hardware between the HD and the HD XL? (I aware of the THX certification on the XL)

So if I bought 2 TiVo boxes, HD and HD XL and a 2GB HDD. Could I clone the HD XL 1TB drive on to the 2GB HDD and then put the 2TB drive in the HD box?

Thanks


----------



## willard

Can anyone tell me if the 32mb cache of the WD10EVDS provides any noticeable advantages over the 8mb cache of the WD10EVVS? Is the 32mb cache worth paying a bit more for?

Just curious as apart from the cache size difference they are essentially the same drive if WD's website is to believed and the WD10EVVS is the drive Tivo uses in the HDXL right?

Also, the only desktop computer I have access to is a 64 bit machine running 64 bit windows XP professional. It is only using one of the available 4 SATA ports on the mobo. Can anyone tell me if backup/transfer process detailed in the FAQ using WinMS and the Widdle do-da to disable Intellipark will work on this machine? 

Thanks in advance for the help.


----------



## bjmurphy

Mahty said:


> In the system information image, the TiVo box indicates up to 200 hours of HD recording capability and up to 400 hours of SD capability. I thought that 200 hours of HD capability would equate to a lot more than 400 hours of SD capability. Is this somehow an Australia thing?


Must be an aussie thing, as originally I had 60hrs or SD and 30hrs of HD and this is what is advertised on the tivo australia website


----------



## smithrl

I have an TiVo HD with the original 160 Gb drive and have used the plug-and-play option to add a WD MyDVR 1Tb expansion.

If I did the following using WinMFS

upgrade the internal drive to 1Tb and copy its recordings
marry the MyDVR drive to the newly expanded internal drive​
would my recordings be preserved?


----------



## dmartin5454

willard said:


> Can anyone tell me if the 32mb cache of the WD10EVDS provides any noticeable advantages over the 8mb cache of the WD10EVVS? Is the 32mb cache worth paying a bit more for?
> 
> Just curious as apart from the cache size difference they are essentially the same drive if WD's website is to believed and the WD10EVVS is the drive Tivo uses in the HDXL right?
> 
> Also, the only desktop computer I have access to is a 64 bit machine running 64 bit windows XP professional. It is only using one of the available 4 SATA ports on the mobo. Can anyone tell me if backup/transfer process detailed in the FAQ using WinMS and the Widdle do-da to disable Intellipark will work on this machine?


From what I've read, Tivos are performance limited by their processor, and having a larger disk cache will not make any difference to the overall Tivo performance. So, spending extra money for it would not get you anything.

I upgraded my Tivo recently using a 64-bit desktop running Windows 7, directly connecting the drives to the SATA ports. This worked with no issues for both wdidle3 and winMFS. You will need to make sure you have SATA and power cables to both drives. There might be some unused power cables attached to your motherboard, and there might not. Same for the SATA cables.


----------



## richsadams

dmartin5454 said:


> From what I've read, Tivos are performance limited by their processor, and having a larger disk cache will not make any difference to the overall Tivo performance. So, spending extra money for it would not get you anything.


That is correct. FWIW OEM TiVo HDD's have a miniscule 2MB of cache.



dmartin5454 said:


> There might be some unused power cables attached to your motherboard, and there might not. Same for the SATA cables.


It's unlikely that there will be any unused power or SATA _cables_ on a motherboard. On most modern computers there will be a few open SATA connectors on the motherboard and probably at least one open power connector coming out of the power supply. In a pinch one can usually use the SATA and power connections on an existing optical (CD and/or DVD) drive.

Congrats on your upgrade and enjoy!


----------



## ADG

Three months ago I replaced a failing hd in my S3 with a Western Digital WD5000AVVS. This morning I woke up to an endless reboot cycle (screen gets to Powering Up and then reboots). I posted this on the forum and someone suggested it's probably a bad HD. Is that possible / likely? If so, am I better of with the Seagate Pipeline ST3500312CS? Thanks.


EDIT - also, is there a way for me to retrieve only specific recordings from the failed drive?


----------



## rocko

ADG said:


> Three months ago I replaced a failing hd in my S3 with a Western Digital WD5000AVVS. This morning I woke up to an endless reboot cycle (screen gets to Powering Up and then reboots). I posted this on the forum and someone suggested it's probably a bad HD. Is that possible / likely? If so, am I better of with the Seagate Pipeline ST3500312CS? Thanks.


If you're going to replace the drive why not go for a 1TB? This one looks like a good deal - and Hitachi drives can be acoustically tuned IIRC.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10011709&prodlist=celebros



> EDIT - also, is there a way for me to retrieve only specific recordings from the failed drive?


No. If your drive is failing you might not be able to save any recordings at all. You could try to copy the entire drive with WinMFS and see what happens. Otherwise, your other choices are a truncated backup/restore with WinMFS or InstantCake if the drive is totally borked.

EDIT: You can actually go back to your original 160GB drive and copy it if the existing drive is borked. I just noticed you have an already upgraded drive.


----------



## ADG

Thanks - I have no need for 1Tb (two s3's right next to each other). Just wanted informed opinions to see if the Seagate I'm ordering is a solid drive - but then I would have thought the WD would be okay  . 

Yeah, I realize I can go back to the original, and that's my fall back position - thanks. I think I'll give it a shot with the WD - only problem is the drive is so large it'll take about 8 hours to copy over (obviously did not have a chance to dump the "recently deleted" folder). Thanks again for the response.


----------



## richsadams

ADG said:


> Thanks - I have no need for 1Tb (two s3's right next to each other). Just wanted informed opinions to see if the Seagate I'm ordering is a solid drive - but then I would have thought the WD would be okay  .
> 
> Yeah, I realize I can go back to the original, and that's my fall back position - thanks. I think I'll give it a shot with the WD - only problem is the drive is so large it'll take about 8 hours to copy over (obviously did not have a chance to dump the "recently deleted" folder). Thanks again for the response.


Have you tried running TiVo's built-in diagnostic and repair programs called Kickstarts? It might be worth a try.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

If it is your hard drive, why not get a replacement from WD? Drives fail now and then, but WD's history over the past few years has been quite good. Your drive has a three-year warranty. The only downside is that a replacement will probably have the soft reboot Intellipark issue (have a look at some other posts here or do a search in this thread) so you would need to run a quick program to disable it.

Otherwise there are several folks here successfully using Seagate Pipeline hard drives. They are dedicated AV drives. I'm with Rocko...installing the largest hard drive you can afford is the way to go. There are many, many posts from people regretting not going with a larger drive originally. Your call of course.

500GB Seagate Pipeline: http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=211159237&listingid=52462978

1TB Seagate Pipeline: http://www.provantage.com/seagate-st31000322cs~7SEGS1XR.htm

The Hitachi Rocko suggested s/b fine as well (adjusting the AAM to make it quieter is very easy).

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


----------



## ADG

Thanks Rich. I've just ordered the Seagate. After I do the swap I'll return try to get a replacement from WD and keep it as a backup for my two S3's. I don't believe kickstart is an option for me since I can't get past the Powering Up screen.


----------



## richsadams

ADG said:


> Thanks Rich. I've just ordered the Seagate. After I do the swap I'll return try to get a replacement from WD and keep it as a backup for my two S3's. I don't believe kickstart is an option for me since I can't get past the Powering Up screen.


Got it. Keep us posted! :up:


----------



## richsadams

Based on several earlier posts on the "HDXL soft reboot hang" thread we were pretty confident that TiVo was beta testing a fix for the Intellipark issue. Now based on a couple of recent posts TiVo may be pushing a minor update to address the Intellipark menu restart/soft reboot issue, at least for TiVo HDXL's. I've no idea if this update would be sent to all Hi-def TiVo's including Series3's and TiVo HD's or if it's limited to the HDXL. AFAIK only owners of new HDXL's have reported the problem.

According to the posts the software version number hasn't changed from 11.0d, but TiVo has made minor updates w/o a version change before.

Since WD implemented the Intellipark "feature" for all of their GP HDD line, I'm wondering if the issue will eventually affect TiVo HD's as well. Then, if not, why not?

I'm also wondering if the update does go out to Series3's and HD's how or if it will affect folks here that have upgraded and turned off or extended the Intellipark timeout on the newer WD HDD's. I doubt that it will make any difference but it will be interesting to see (or hopefully _not_ see).

The good news is that it appears that TiVo is taking the necessary steps to correct the problem.


----------



## drey

richsadams said:


> Since WD implemented the Intellipark "feature" for all of their GP HDD line, I'm wondering if the issue will eventually affect TiVo HD's as well. Then, if not, why not?


The Intellipark issue has been part of WD Green drives from the beginning. Although only recent firmware versions affected TiVo HD units as well. I guess that's what prompted me to post what to do to resolve the problem.

WD has a number of revisions for WD GP drives, with different variations for Intellipark. Not all drives are affected.

Not sure how eager TiVo is to release the "fix" since internal upgrades is not something TiVo supports and they would prefer for their customers to purchase HD XL units instead.


----------



## richsadams

drey said:


> The Intellipark issue has been part of WD Green drives from the beginning. Although only recent firmware versions affected TiVo HD units as well. I guess that's what prompted me to post what to do to resolve the problem.
> 
> WD has a number of revisions for WD GP drives, with different variations for Intellipark. Not all drives are affected.
> 
> Not sure how eager TiVo is to release the "fix" since internal upgrades is not something TiVo supports and they would prefer for their customers to purchase HD XL units instead.


Good points...and I know they can isolate updates by model, etc., so it's likely that's what will happen. :up:


----------



## bmal1

I received a WD10EVDS today from Amazon. The date on the label says:

10 Oct 2009

Do I need to run wdidle3.exe on this drive? Or is it only necessary for drives manufactured after November. Thanks for your help.


----------



## bjmurphy

bmal1 said:


> I received a WD10EVDS today from Amazon. The date on the label says:
> 
> 10 Oct 2009
> 
> Do I need to run wdidle3.exe on this drive? Or is it only necessary for drives manufactured after November. Thanks for your help.


From my knowledge it is only drives from early novenber, I think I recall 3rd or 4th Nov from a previous comment on this thread. So I believe you would be ok not to run wdidle3. Unfortunately my wd10evds was November 16th so I had to run the software. If I was you I would try it without running wdidle3 as 10 oct is WELL before November.


----------



## backyard

Up-grade complete.

Purchased a WDEARS first then Hitachi Deskstar to avoid the parking issue. (I&#8217;m SATA/USB bound). Up-graded THD to 1Tb with winmfs via. SATA/USB cable. Very easy. No troubles. Although the drive does make a thumping noise occasionally (reported a few pages back) and the soft fix didn&#8217;t help it doesn&#8217;t bother me. 

I have noticed the TiVo now playing menu still turns programs yellow and yellow with exclamation even though I have lots of space. It&#8217;s a little unnerving. Can I change this?

Also, the deleted programs are piling up. Is there any way to delete permanently (erase) them as a group rather than individually?

I have two THDs but one has a ticking transformer/dead power supply. If I can find enough documentation I would like to repair at the component level. It doesn&#8217;t seem to make sense to pay $100 for a replacement. That&#8217;s why I bought the 2nd THD. I&#8217;ll install the EARS if I can fix it. Any power supply hints would be appreciated.


----------



## ThAbtO

backyard said:


> I have noticed the TiVo now playing menu still turns programs yellow and yellow with exclamation even though I have lots of space. Its a little unnerving. Can I change this?
> 
> Also, the deleted programs are piling up. Is there any way to delete permanently (erase) them as a group rather than individually?


Your yellow tagged programs just show it has the potential of deletion but only if the space is required for upcoming recordings (after Recently Deleted folder emptied) and you can just ignore yellow dots (!), which are date related.


----------



## richsadams

ThAbtO said:


> Your yellow tagged programs just show it has the potential of deletion but only if the space is required for upcoming recordings (after Recently Deleted folder emptied) and you can just ignore yellow dots (!), which are date related.


Per my esteemed colleague's prior post...the yellow warning bullets are meaningless to you! (At least for now  ) Nothing you can do to change them showing up unless you mark every recording scheduled as Keep Until I Delete...then you have a nice green bullet point.

You cannot delete the Recently Deleted folder as you can with normal recordings folders. If you wanted to permanently delete the RD's you'd have to do them one-by-one. Unless you want to cut down on the time it would take to make a full copy of your hard drive for some reason, there's really no reason to do that. They will take care of themselves and will not take up any space when you need it.

Can't help with the power supply...although IIRC a couple of folks here have replaced a specific part that seems to fail. Most folks just replace the power supply or look for a dead TiVo on ebay or Craig's List to canabalize. You might want to post over in the TiVo Help Center for more info.

Congrats and enjoy!


----------



## backyard

Thanks for your responses TiVo Friends.


----------



## CraigK

backyard said:


> Up-grade complete.


Congratulations on the upgrade. :up:

I don't worry about the yellow programs anymore. As long as I have a large amount of programs in my deleted folder I know I'm doing fine and don't have to worry. I don't tend to keep programs for a long time (except saving up a few movies) so I'm usually running at 150+ programs in my deleted folder.

I have left a couple of short (old) programs at the end of my Now Playing List as a kind of indicator. I'll know something is going on if they disappear, but that's leftover behavior from when I had a 160G HDD in my TiVo HD.


----------



## VodkaStr8Up

Is checking what TiVoHD reports the only way to see if winmfs supersize worked? I saved the Mfsinfo data for both the previous 1TB drive and the current 1TB I will be installing into a second TiVoHD. I turned supersize ON for the recent drive but the following numbers are the same for both drives. The previous drives Mfsinfo data was saved over six months ago.

Total SA SD Hours: 1040
Total DTV SD Hours: 908
100&#37; Free

Regardless of the supersize setting, these numbers are significantly below expected hours with a 1TB drive. I'm wondering if winmfs and TiVo calculate expected hours differently. Maybe the recording quality used in the calculations explain the difference.


----------



## richsadams

VodkaStr8Up said:


> Is checking what TiVoHD reports the only way to see if winmfs supersize worked? I saved the Mfsinfo data for both the previous 1TB drive and the current 1TB I will be installing into a second TiVoHD. I turned supersize ON for the recent drive but the following numbers are the same for both drives. The previous drives Mfsinfo data was saved over six months ago.
> 
> Total SA SD Hours: 1040
> Total DTV SD Hours: 908
> 100% Free
> 
> Regardless of the supersize setting, these numbers are significantly below expected hours with a 1TB drive. I'm wondering if winmfs and TiVo calculate expected hours differently. Maybe the recording quality used in the calculations explain the difference.


As you point out, there is no way of knowing the exact data content for any recording so all of the numbers are estimates. As you probably know TiVo's System Information screen should read "Variable, up to 157 HD hours or 1367 SD hours" if Supersize is turned on.


----------



## budf15

If this is already answered somewhere, I apologize. I couldn't find the answer. My recently upgraded Tivo HD has worked flawlessly for a few weeks but has recently started to freeze/lock up fairly frequently. I'm assuming it's a HD problem but seems strange since it was brand new and worked flawlessly for almost a month. It's a WD 10EVDS manufactured in Oct 09. Doesn't have the soft reboot problem but for some reason, it'll just freeze during playback or while watching live TV and then that's all she wrote. Have to unplug and hard reboot to get it back. Usually works for an hour or so than locks up again. Wife is not impressed. How do I test the drive to look for errors? I've heard of the kickstart options but should I take the drive out and test it from the computer?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## richsadams

budf15 said:


> IMy recently upgraded Tivo HD has worked flawlessly for a few weeks but has recently started to freeze/lock up fairly frequently.


Sorry to hear that your TiVo is acting up. Assuming everything is connected securely it would be worth checking the hard drive temperature on the System Information screen. Anything above 54c or so can cause problems. Odds are it's fine as long as you have some decent ventilation though. If so, it's probably worth running TiVo's built in diagnostic and repair programs called "Kickstarts":

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

If that doesn't help, or it passes the KS54 diagnostic the next step would be to pull the drive and run a full diagnostic like WD's Lifeguard:

http://support.wdc.com/download/

The reason it may have worked without any issues is that data being written to the drive hadn't hit any bad sectors. Once it tries to write to bad sectors it can lock up. It's also possible the the I/O error correction is failing for some reason (and would be more apparent on HD's high-data throughput).

Unfortunately even new drives can fail. Fortunately your drive has a three-year warranty. (Info on RMA's is in the KS post.)

Hope that helps and let us know how it goes.

BTW: It's been my experience that most wives are rarely impressed with anything that doesn't work and even less-so with something that you've "turbo-charged"...and then doesn't work. YMMV of course.


----------



## rocko

richsadams said:


> BTW: It's been my experience that most wives are rarely impressed with anything that doesn't work and even less-so with something that you've "turbo-charged"...and then doesn't work. YMMV of course.


My wife's been completely unimpressed since I stopped working


----------



## richsadams

rocko said:


> My wife's been completely unimpressed since I stopped working


I'll bet she's more than happy with all of the "honey-do's" you've been able to take of for her though...right?


----------



## rocko

richsadams said:


> I'll bet she's more than happy with all of the "honey-do's" you've been able to take of for her though...right?


taptaptap ... hello? is this thing on?


----------



## richsadams

rocko said:


> taptaptap ... hello? is this thing on?


----------



## ThAbtO

rocko said:


> taptaptap ... hello? is this thing on?


You forgot to charge the batteries again!


----------



## VodkaStr8Up

richsadams said:


> As you probably know TiVo's System Information screen should read "Variable, up to 157 HD hours or 1367 SD hours" if Supersize is turned on.


Our first TiVoHD; currently without MfsSuperSize shows, "Variable, up to 142 HD hours or 1241 SD hours". After setting up our second TiVoHD today with a MfsSuperSize 1TB drive shows, "Variable, up to *144 HD hours or 1367 SD hours*". *Any ideas why it's not showing ~157 HD hours?* Thanks!


----------



## bkdtv

VodkaStr8Up said:


> Our first TiVoHD; currently without MfsSuperSize shows, "Variable, up to 142 HD hours or 1241 SD hours". After setting up our second TiVoHD today with a MfsSuperSize 1TB drive shows, "Variable, up to *144 HD hours or 1367 SD hours*". *Any ideas why it's not showing ~157 HD hours?* Thanks!


It sounds like you skipped a step. If you don't follow the steps exactly as written, the MfsSuperSize option won't be applied.

Note step #16 under *TiVo Internal Upgrade Instructions: Preserves Settings and Recordings*. If you skip that step and just select Tools -> MfsSupersize -> On, it won't work.

Note also that you won't see 157 HD hours unless your TiVo has the 11.0 software. TiVo changed the way it estimated capacity between 9.x and 11.x.


----------



## bmal1

Just wanted to report on the success I had upgrading my Tivo HD. I bought a WD10EVDS, a sata to USB adapter, torx screwdrivers and downloaded WinMFS. I followed the upgrade instructions in the FAQ exactly. The upgrade took about 45 minutes. Tivo booted up and everything worked. 157 hours of HD and the drive is quiet.

My total cost was around $130 which is about what the 1TB My DVR Expander goes for on amazon.

The drive was dated Oct 10 2009. There was no softboot issue and so wdidle3 was not needed.

I just wanted to thank those who created the FAQ for such great information and those who have posted on this thread for sharing thier experiences. Without the information provided here I never would have dared to open my Tivo. 

I will give updates to any issues I encounter but after 9 hours, so far so good.


----------



## richsadams

bmal1 said:


> Just wanted to report on the success I had upgrading my Tivo HD.


Well done...and welcome to the club! :up:


----------



## richsadams

VodkaStr8Up said:


> Our first TiVoHD; currently without MfsSuperSize shows, "Variable, up to 142 HD hours or 1241 SD hours". After setting up our second TiVoHD today with a MfsSuperSize 1TB drive shows, "Variable, up to *144 HD hours or 1367 SD hours*". *Any ideas why it's not showing ~157 HD hours?* Thanks!


If you have the current software (v11.0d) you can simply reattach your TiVo drive to your computer, run winMFS and turn on the Supersize option and that will do it. BTW, doing it now (or later) won't have any impact on any recordings or anything else.


----------



## richsadams

If anyone is in the market for a SATA to USB adapter, mwave.com has them on sale for a very reasonable $9.99 w/free shipping:

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/SKUSearch_v3.asp?px=MP&scriteria=AA51890

Although I connect drives directly to the MB now, I've used this exact model for upgrades in the past and it worked perfectly. (I've also ordered from mwave and can recommend them.)


----------



## rocko

richsadams said:


> If anyone is in the market for a SATA to USB adapter, mwave.com has them on sale for a very reasonable $9.99 w/free shipping:
> 
> http://www.mwave.com/mwave/SKUSearch_v3.asp?px=MP&scriteria=AA51890
> 
> Although I connect drives directly to the MB now, I've used this exact model for upgrades in the past and it worked perfectly. (I've also ordered from mwave and can recommend them.)


That seems to be the going price from any number of eBsy sellers. They do work great. I forgot to supersize one of my newly upgraded drives so I used one of those little babies instead of cracking open one of my many cases


----------



## S3-2501

bkdtv said:


> It sounds like you skipped a step. If you don't follow the steps exactly as written, the MfsSuperSize option won't be applied.
> 
> Note step #16 under *TiVo Internal Upgrade Instructions: Preserves Settings and Recordings*. If you skip that step and just select Tools -> MfsSupersize -> On, it won't work.
> 
> Note also that you won't see 157 HD hours unless your TiVo has the 11.0 software. TiVo changed the way it estimated capacity between 9.x and 11.x.


 Man am I glad I checked this thread today! When I did my upgrade I used the WinMFS quick start instructions, which don't mention needing to do the supersize option after using mfscopy. I thought that was only for drives larger than 1TB. Thanks to this post I successfully retroactively supersized my upgrade tuoday.

Since people are sharing which SATA/USB adapers they're using, FWIW this is the one I used. The box arrived in bad shape, but it has worked fine and I like the versatility of it for use with different drive types.


----------



## rocko

S3-2501 said:


> Man am I glad I checked this thread today! When I did my upgrade I used the WinMFS quick start instructions, which don't mention needing to do the supersize option after using mfscopy. I thought that was only for drives larger than 1TB. Thanks to this post I successfully retroactively supersized my upgrade tuoday.
> 
> Since people are sharing which SATA/USB adapers they're using, FWIW this is the one I used. The box arrived in bad shape, but it has worked fine and I like the versatility of it for use with different drive types.


$10.05 - Free shipping

http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-2-0-To-SATA-IDE-3-5-2-5-Hard-Drive-Adapter-Cable_W0QQitemZ380193508997QQcategoryZ31534QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%252BDDSIC%26otn%3D3%26ps%3D63


----------



## chrishicks

I've been searching this topic for what seems like days(about the same as trying to get my new drive working) and I haven't spotted my answer so I'm just going to ask.

I have InstantCake(for the S3) and I've been trying to get the new drive to take the image. I have 3 PCs(2 desktops and 1 laptop) and I can't get this to work on any of them. 

Desktop 1: all SATA connections. I tried every connection avail. to get the drives setup correctly and no matter what I tried I could never get the cd drive to mount. 

Desktop 2: standard IDE connections. Played around removing drives(has a DVD -Rom + CD-R) removed HDDs, flipped cables around, played with the BIOS and nothing, drive won't mount.

Laptop: Old Emachines laptop. Had to connect HDD via USB(using an Antec-MX1 case). I get the CD drive to mount right away. However when I get passed that I have issues. I have tried multiple times to get the right drive for my USB drive but it just kicks back "unable to open /dev/hdX to write" and then says press enter to continue. After I hit enter I get a page telling me about cable cards, SPs and so on. Then I get a "your drive has been baked" message a few seconds after. 

Is there an easier way of trying to remount the HDD? because at the moment I have to shut down and reboot after each try. Another thing, I can't leave the USB connected during the reboot because the laptop just hangs which means I can't enter the BIOS with the drive attached. 

I did notice that IC reports the HDD is "sda" when it runs the commands but I can only enter "hdX" when I get to that part. I'm thinking at this point I'm stuck and I'll have to spend the extra money for a preconfigured drive as I don't have access to any other PCs(everyone I know has brand new Windows 7 computers and there is no way they'll let me crack one open to mess with this) but I figured I'd turn to the experts here first.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

EDIT: I tried using SATA settings for the USB drive and it appears to have worked. I'm hoping everything is fine as I don't think it even took 10 minutes to complete after.


----------



## VodkaStr8Up

bkdtv said:


> Note also that you won't see 157 HD hours unless your TiVo has the 11.0 software. TiVo changed the way it estimated capacity between 9.x and 11.x.


Viewing the System Info through TiVoHD today now shows 157 HD hours so my dvr must have taken the newer software version since Saturday; all is great now!


----------



## chrishicks

Well something didn't work right working with IC. I received no errors but with the new drive installed I get stuck on "Welcome...". I let it sit for a good 20min. at least and nothing. I tried redoing IC and again everything reports as going just fine. Not a single error. I put the drive in the S3 and won't go past Welcome. I also notice USB doesn't work with the new drive either. I can feel the drive running(left cover off on the 2nd install to see) but nothing is happening. 

I'm not sure what my next move is here to be honest. Can someone point me in the right direction?


----------



## richsadams

chrishicks said:


> Well something didn't work right working with IC. I received no errors but with the new drive installed I get stuck on "Welcome...". I let it sit for a good 20min. at least and nothing. I tried redoing IC and again everything reports as going just fine. Not a single error. I put the drive in the S3 and won't go past Welcome. I also notice USB doesn't work with the new drive either. I can feel the drive running(left cover off on the 2nd install to see) but nothing is happening.
> 
> I'm not sure what my next move is here to be honest. Can someone point me in the right direction?


Unless someone here can sort it out I'd head over to DVRUpgrade and post your question/problem. (The site has some troubleshooting tips as well.) Although IC doesn't come with any support Lou is generally very good at quickly assessing a situation and advising what to do. He drops by here once in a while, but I'd see if you can get some help from his forum in the meantime. Post as much info about your TiVo, IC, etc. over thee as you can...and of course what you're running into.

Best of luck!


----------



## chrishicks

Thanks for the reply. I'm going to head over there soon unless my current attempt works. I downloaded WinMFS and am currently trying that out as I type this. If that doesn't work I'm off to DVRUpgrade.


EDIT: I'm starting to think either a bad drive or one image not overwriting the other or something. WinMFS reported a good transfer with no errors and I still can't get past "Welcome". Is there a way I can completely wipe whatever image that may be on this drive and start over from scratch or does WinMFS do that already?

For now I'm running just the stock drive to make sure everything is still fine with it since I dropped the DVR Extender which seemed to be causing all the issues.


----------



## dswallow

I see the drive list in the first page of the FAQ thread has been pruned... but what was pruned doesn't seem to be anywhere I can find. Does anyone still have the info that used to be there?

I find the noise "estimates" on that current list very disappointing and was going to see what the other drivers were like to see if it's worth hunting one down and dealing with the Intellipark issue.


----------



## SAH2

I am about to replace the original drive in my S3 with a new 1TB drive. (I have been getting many reboots and the green screen for a couple of days now)

I currently have an external 750GB FAP drive as well that was added during the initial discovery of the kickstart feature.

From what I understand, once I upgrade the original drive, I will not be able to add a new external drive unless I open the Tivo again.

Is there a way to "prepare" the new internal drive for an external drive while doing the upgrade? I have an Antec enclosure with 1TB drive, but did not want to attach it until I need the space. (Also wanted to make sure the new internal drive was working for awhile first)

The FAQ's have grown so much since I added the first external drive, I want to make sure I am doing this the right way.
Thanks


----------



## richsadams

dswallow said:


> I see the drive list in the first page of the FAQ thread has been pruned... but what was pruned doesn't seem to be anywhere I can find. Does anyone still have the info that used to be there?
> 
> I find the noise "estimates" on that current list very disappointing and was going to see what the other drivers were like to see if it's worth hunting one down and dealing with the Intellipark issue.


IIRC the only drives that have been removed are the various WD GP drives due to the Intellipark "feature". They were/are among the quietest drives available. If you're willing to run the wdidle program mentioned in the first post you should be in good shape using what was the top recommendation, the WD10EVVS. I haven't used the program myself but I understand that it's pretty easy and a number of folks have had success doing it.

Otherwise the Hitachi HD31000 is really pretty quiet out of the box (I have two running in a NAS) plus the AAM can be tuned down even lower. The Seagate Pipeline series are dedicated A/V drives and are reportedly very quiet as well.


----------



## richsadams

SAH2 said:


> From what I understand, once I upgrade the original drive, I will not be able to add a new external drive unless I open the Tivo again.


 Correct.



SAH2 said:


> Is there a way to "prepare" the new internal drive for an external drive while doing the upgrade? I have an Antec enclosure with 1TB drive, but did not want to attach it until I need the space. (Also wanted to make sure the new internal drive was working for awhile first)


Unfortunately not. Both drives have to be connected to the computer at the same time to perform the "marriage ceremony". You could do that now, but I'm almost certain that when you boot up TiVo would be looking for the external drive and if it wasn't there you'd end up having to go through the divorce procedure.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## chrishicks

Well I did more messing around and I currently have the drive running in an MX-1 case connected via eSATA and as of now it seems fine. Strange that this same drive wouldn't work for either IC or WinMFS for me. Of course I'll be monitoring this for signs of a bad drive just in case. 

With the drive attached I'm currently seeing 197 HD and 1720 SD so if this holds until the summer I'll take another stab at going for internal only even if I lose some recording capacity which isn't that big of a deal as in comparison to having the stock only setup.


----------



## dswallow

richsadams said:


> IIRC the only drives that have been removed are the various WD GP drives due to the Intellipark "feature". They were/are among the quietest drives available. If you're willing to run the wdidle program mentioned in the first post you should be in good shape using what was the top recommendation, the WD10EVVS. I haven't used the program myself but I understand that it's pretty easy and a number of folks have had success doing it.
> 
> Otherwise the Hitachi HD31000 is really pretty quiet out of the box (I have two running in a NAS) plus the AAM can be tuned down even lower. The Seagate Pipeline series are dedicated A/V drives and are reportedly very quiet as well.


Where did the noise estimates on the list come from? I'll probably stick with the EVDS drives since I used that on another unit and found it quite good. I had the impression some people weren't able to get the Intellipark feature turned off and instead had to live with setting it to a high value. But if that's not really the case, I've got no problem running a utility on a dirve, if necessary.

Historically I find Seagate drives to be just not particularly reliably quiet from even the same model drive to drive and their refusal to pay AAM licensing fees just makes me avoid them completely for any quiet-area application. Clackity clackety click all the time was just not fun. If you didn't actually make the heads reverse direction is was quiet, though.


----------



## richsadams

dswallow said:


> Where did the noise estimates on the list come from? I'll probably stick with the EVDS drives since I used that on another unit and found it quite good. I had the impression some people weren't able to get the Intellipark feature turned off and instead had to live with setting it to a high value. But if that's not really the case, I've got no problem running a utility on a dirve, if necessary.


I think bkdtv picked up the acoustic specs from the manufacturer's websites. In my experience the manufacturers understate the actual noise levels. But most drives rated at >28dBA seem to be quiet enough for a TiVo. IIRC most of the WD GP drive's seek noise is rated around 26dB. Several that I have running were very quiet stock. I couldn't tell much difference once I tuned the AAM down to 128 but it probably helped a little.

The WD10EVDS should do just fine. Looks like they're going for about $90 which isn't too bad. I'm not sure if it's that particular model, but some WD GP drives apparently don't allow Intelisync to be turned off. But as you mention, they can have the idle time increased to the point where it won't affect soft reboots.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## richsadams

chrishicks said:


> Well I did more messing around and I currently have the drive running in an MX-1 case connected via eSATA and as of now it seems fine. Strange that this same drive wouldn't work for either IC or WinMFS for me. Of course I'll be monitoring this for signs of a bad drive just in case.
> 
> With the drive attached I'm currently seeing 197 HD and 1720 SD so if this holds until the summer I'll take another stab at going for internal only even if I lose some recording capacity which isn't that big of a deal as in comparison to having the stock only setup.


Strange things happen...just glad it's all running well now. We only have 1TB in our Series3 and HD and can never find the time to watch everything we record. Only? Did I say that out loud?! It's amazing to think that 1TB seems small these days.


----------



## strider.turbo

drey said:


> No, unfortunately it won't work with USB-SATA adapter by default since MS-DOS doesn't have USB drivers preinstalled and as such, won't detect the drive.
> 
> Technically, you can make a custom boot disk that will contain drivers for USB and than it will work. I'll see if I can update boot disk later to include USB drivers on it.


I recently bought WD10EVDS to replace TiVo HD's internal hard drive. But I don't have any SATA/eSATA port on my laptop to run wdidle3 in order to disable Intellipark. Has anybody found a workaround to this limitation.

Would it work with CardBus eSATA adapter?

Thanks,
Shawn


----------



## ADG

disregard


----------



## ADG

disregard


----------



## richsadams

ADG said:


> Please forgive a silly question, but am I correct that BOTH methods of Internal Upgrades described on the first page retain cable card info? I'm guessing yes but I'd like to be 100% certain. Thanks much.


Not a silly question at all. The answer is yes, your cable card info, SP's, etc. will be retained with either upgrade method.



ADG said:


> I just removed the drive that has been giving me the problem and it turns out it is a GREEN DRIVE (never even realized it before). I've downloaded dos_wdidle3. Did we determine if there is a way to perform the needed action by connecting the drive via usb-sata cable? Thank you VERY much in advance.


What kind of trouble...and do you mean that you think the trouble is associated with the Intellipark issue or are you just wanting to run the program JIC? The only time you'd notice any issue caused by Intellipark is during a menu restart (soft reboot) where TiVo would hang on the Welcome screen and require a power cycle to get it to boot up properly. Otherwise it has no affect on anything else. Also, what's the manufacture date on the drive? It might not have the "feature" at all unless it's fairly recent.

I do not believe anyone has been able to run wdidle from a laptop because DOS doesn't recognize USB connections. I'd be happy to be corrected on that though, but AFAIK it's still a no-go and you'd need to beg, borrow or steal a regular PC to run it.


----------



## rocko

My problem (as well as others') was the CD-ROM drive was on a SATA port, not the HDD. Since the CD drivers don't recognize the SATA drives you can't map the CD drive to run wdidle3. Hooking up an IDE CD drive fixed that for me but I happened to have an old one hooked up to an old machine.


----------



## ADG

I disabled intellipark on a WD drive, replaced the drive, plugged in the S3 and nothing - not even the fan is spinning. There is a faint ticking from the control board where the power connects. Have I lost the unit?


----------



## reubanks

Does the fan spin if you remove the hard drive?


----------



## ADG

no


----------



## ADG

Weaknees thinks the power supply went - just a coincidence. I'll find out tomorrow - ordered a new ps.


----------



## fljoe

Folks,

I started having constant reboot problems with my TivoHD last week and ran some of the KS test that is suggested in this thread. Although I did not find any failures with my DVR expander, removing it resolved the rebooting issue. Now I am on the lookout for a 1GB DVR Expander and I cannot find it anywhere in stock, so I guess WD stopped manufacturing it.

The next step is to replace the internal drive with something bigger as 22hrs of HD recording simply won't do in my case. So I have been reading this wonderful thread and I have decided to get the WD10EVDS since they are extremely quiet. 

I do not have access to a desktop and an SATA port on the motherboard to disable the IntelliPark feature, hence I am deciding to buy a Hard Drive Kit from ebay. Now if I follow the procedure detailed in the FAQ on the first page, I make a backup of my original drive and then restore it to my new drive and I am golden .. ie. no need to re-do my Season Passes, CableCard Info etc .. However if I install the ebay kit, I don't mind re-doing the season passes, however I am afraid of losing the CableCard settings. I know I have to re-do Guided Setup and hopefully I can get access to all the channels and in case I don't I might have to call the cable company and I really shudder at the thought of dealing with the service representative at the cable company when dealing with cable cards. 

Just wondering whether I should find a friend that has a desktop and install this myself or should go for the Ebay kit. If anyone has gotten an Ebay kit and installed it, can you please let me know of your experience with the install.

Thanks!


----------



## ADG

richsadams said:


> What kind of trouble...and do you mean that you think the trouble is associated with the Intellipark issue or are you just wanting to run the program JIC? The only time you'd notice any issue caused by Intellipark is during a menu restart (soft reboot) where TiVo would hang on the Welcome screen and require a power cycle to get it to boot up properly. Otherwise it has no affect on anything else. Also, what's the manufacture date on the drive? It might not have the "feature" at all unless it's fairly recent.
> 
> I do not believe anyone has been able to run wdidle from a laptop because DOS doesn't recognize USB connections. I'd be happy to be corrected on that though, but AFAIK it's still a no-go and you'd need to beg, borrow or steal a regular PC to run it.


As always, thanks Rich. The system went into an endless boot cycle and never got past "Powering Up". The drive was 3 months old and has a "green drive" label on it. I eventually connected it to one of my computers (pain in the ass) and when I ran the wdidle3 utility the screen reported that intellipark was disabled - so it appears that the drive did indeed have that feature.

Tomorrow I should receive both the power supply and the replacement drive (which I hope I don't need). Keeping my fingers crossed that I can get this back up and running tomorrow. I do have another S3, but because of my setup it's a pain not to have both operable. And of course if I do have to replace it I'm looking at $400 for an HDXL (Amazon) + another $300 for lifetime subscription. Like most others, money is not growing on trees in my house these days.


----------



## richsadams

ADG said:


> The system went into an endless boot cycle and never got past "Powering Up". The drive was 3 months old and has a "green drive" label on it. I eventually connected it to one of my computers (pain in the ass) and when I ran the wdidle3 utility the screen reported that intellipark was disabled - so it appears that the drive did indeed have that feature.


Ah, got it. All of the WD GP drives have/had the Intellipark "feature" however they changed something along about October or so (depending on the model) that caused them to stop playing nice w/TiVo. That's why I asked about the date.

In any case it's an odd coincidence that the PS went out at the same time unless something shorted somewhere. But these things happen.

Hope all goes well tomorrow and keep us posted!


----------



## richsadams

fljoe said:


> Just wondering whether I should find a friend that has a desktop and install this myself or should go for the Ebay kit. If anyone has gotten an Ebay kit and installed it, can you please let me know of your experience with the install.


If you're comfortable connecting a hard drive to a computer, DIY is the way I would go. Less expensive and a good learning experience if nothing else. Although the instructions look a little complicated, once you do it they really aren't.

Plus if you use your original hard drive to image a new one all of your settings (including cable card) will be retained. Nothing wrong with the ebay drives I'm sure, but installing one would be just like buying a new TiVo...you'd need to start from scratch.

Hope that helps.


----------



## ADG

I'm not a big fan of coincidence either, but.........
And yeah, I think I got the drive in October. I won't even know if it works until tomorrow. Good news is, I'll have a spare


----------



## ADG

fljoe said:


> Folks,
> Just wondering whether I should find a friend that has a desktop and install this myself or should go for the Ebay kit. If anyone has gotten an Ebay kit and installed it, can you please let me know of your experience with the install.
> Thanks!


I did it today and other than being a pain (all my systems have multiple hd's, so I had to fiddle with the connections a little before getting the utility to see the WD) it's really not a big deal. Of course, as you can see by my signature I'm pretty comfortable around computers


----------



## Miggsoo3

strider.turbo said:


> I recently bought WD10EVDS to replace TiVo HD's internal hard drive. But I don't have any SATA/eSATA port on my laptop to run wdidle3 in order to disable Intellipark. Has anybody found a workaround to this limitation.
> 
> Would it work with CardBus eSATA adapter?
> 
> Thanks,
> Shawn


I used a Dual HDD Docking station connected via usb to disable the Intellipark feature. Then used the same docking station to complete the upgrade on my new WD10EVDS.


----------



## richsadams

Miggsoo3 said:


> I used a Dual HDD Docking station connected via usb to disable the Intellipark feature. Then used the same docking station to complete the upgrade on my new WD10EVDS.


To clarify, did you do all of that with a laptop? I have one of these (which is what I think you're describing) and it comes in very handy...

http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-B...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1265160122&sr=8-1

But I wasn't sure if actually running the wdidle3.exe program on a laptop with a docking station like that would work when the other style like this one won't:

http://www.amazon.com/USB-2-0-SATA-...6?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1265160243&sr=1-6

If it does that's terrific news, but I'm curious as to why it would when the program (which is DOS) won't recognize USB ports/drives. TIA!

*EDIT*: I see by your first post that you did use a laptop. That's very good news indeed, but I'm still confused as to why it works if it's still connecting via USB.  Any elaboration would be welcome.


----------



## fljoe

richsadams said:


> If you're comfortable connecting a hard drive to a computer, DIY is the way I would go. Less expensive and a good learning experience if nothing else. Although the instructions look a little complicated, once you do it they really aren't.
> 
> Plus if you use your original hard drive to image a new one all of your settings (including cable card) will be retained. Nothing wrong with the ebay drives I'm sure, but installing one would be just like buying a new TiVo...you'd need to start from scratch.
> 
> Hope that helps.


Thanks Rich for your advice. I definitely want all my settings preserved, so I am going to do the DIY way. I am thinking of getting the WD WD10EVDS drive and I am very sure I will get a newer one manufactured after Nov2009, so will need to disable the IntelliPark feature. Now do I do the upgrade first and then run the wdidle3 utility or do I need to run this before I upgrade the drive with WinMFS.

Also I am assuming I do not need to do any formatting whatsoever to the newly bought WD10EVDS drive ... right?

Also Miggsoo3, if you could please elaborate on how you managed to run wdiddle by using an SATA to USB dock, I would really appreciate.

Thanks for all your replies .. this is an awesome forum.


----------



## richsadams

fljoe said:


> I am thinking of getting the WD WD10EVDS drive and I am very sure I will get a newer one manufactured after Nov2009, so will need to disable the IntelliPark feature. Now do I do the upgrade first and then run the wdidle3 utility or do I need to run this before I upgrade the drive with WinMFS.
> 
> Also I am assuming I do not need to do any formatting whatsoever to the newly bought WD10EVDS drive ... right?


You can disable the Intellipark feature at any time. No formatting is required and in fact is to be avoided...winMFS will take care of everything. If you follow each step carefully everything will go fine.

With respect to the laptop/USB dock method, I'm also very interested to hear more as well.


----------



## fljoe

richsadams said:


> You can disable the Intellipark feature at any time. No formatting is required and in fact is to be avoided...winMFS will take care of everything. If you follow each step carefully everything will go fine.


Just needed a little bit of clarification regarding running the wdidle utility. It states in the FAQ :
3. Boot from the above CD and change drive letter to R: (it can be other letter, depending on your PC configuration) and run "wdidle3 /D" to disable IntelliPark.

Here I am assuming R: is the CD Drive letter which contains the boot CDROM with the wdidle3 utility (or is it the drive letter of the hard drive that I need to run the utility on).

Now in my friends computer, there are 2 WD drives and I will be connecting the WD10EVDS drive to an unused SATA port on the motherboard. Do I need to disconnect his existing 2 WD drives before running the wdidle3 utility (the old drives are NOT Green Drives) or can I leave them connected and this utility will only disable the Intellipark feature on the WD10EVDS drive?

Apologize if these questions seem silly .. just want to make sure that I absolutely doing the right thing.


----------



## reubanks

I personally would disconnect ANY drive not directly involved with what you are doing. (Optical drive and new HDD to use in the upgrade.)


----------



## strider.turbo

Miggsoo3 said:


> I used a Dual HDD Docking station connected via usb to disable the Intellipark feature. Then used the same docking station to complete the upgrade on my new WD10EVDS.


That indeed is great news! I have laptops only, and do have a dual HDD Docking station (Thermaltake BlacX DuetST0014U).

I used this docking station to upgrade the internal hard drive to WD10EVDS. However, I upgraded it without running wdidle3. From the FAQs, it looks like I can run it even after the backup and restore. After hearing the success news from Miggsoo3, I feel encouraged to give it a try using the docking station.

I also have a eSATA card adapter. Can somebody tell if this does or does not work for running wdidle3.


----------



## CraigK

We should have asked all the folks that bought HDXLs recently to put in the 30 second skip and/or clock hacks as an indicator of a reboot and possible software update.


----------



## jlib

CraigK said:


> We should have asked all the folks that bought HDXLs recently to put in the 30 second skip and/or clock hacks as an indicator of a reboot and possible software update.


The 30 second skip is no longer a reliable indicator since it now survives a reboot.


----------



## jlib

richsadams said:


> ...If it does that's terrific news, but I'm curious as to why it would when the program (which is DOS) won't recognize USB ports/drives. TIA!
> 
> *EDIT*: I see by your first post that you did use a laptop. That's very good news indeed, but I'm still confused as to why it works if it's still connecting via USB.  Any elaboration would be welcome.


He wouldn't have been able to use the boot disk drey posted which was specific to computers with a similar CDROM as he has on his system and no USB support. But there has been basic USB support for DOS for some time but there was never any native support so one has to get a bootdisk that works on the system to be used and then add the 3rd party USB drivers.

Bootdisk.com has a variety of boot disks available and also a page on adding USB support. Note that the instructions are from the standpoint of having a floppy drive boot disk that can be added to and edited. If one has the added difficulty of no floppy drive then I guess you could try using the CD image drey posted or one of the pre-built bootable CDs from bootdisk.com and then copy the files off to a folder, add the USB support and then reburn a bootable CD.

If someone gets a bootdisk with a universal CD driver (none are truly universal, though) and USB support made please post the ISO image of it somewhere.

It is to be hoped that TiVo will integrate the HDXL fix into the rest of the line which would make this a moot issue.


----------



## CraigK

jlib said:


> The 30 second skip is no longer a reliable indicator since it now survives a reboot.


:up:

Thanks. My TiVo HD (upgraded to 1TB) lost it's clock sometime over the last few days. The 30 second skip still worked so that explains a lot.

Don't know why it rebooted. Probably not related to the fix that seems to have been pushed out to some HDXLs, but it's an interesting coincidence. The clock had been fine for a couple of months at least.


----------



## richsadams

jlib said:


> He wouldn't have been able to use the boot disk drey posted which was specific to computers with a similar CDROM as he has on his system and no USB support. But there has been basic USB support for DOS for some time but there was never any native support so one has to get a bootdisk that works on the system to be used and then add the 3rd party USB drivers.
> 
> Bootdisk.com has a variety of boot disks available and also a page on adding USB support. Note that the instructions are from the standpoint of having a floppy drive boot disk that can be added to and edited. If one has the added difficulty of no floppy drive then I guess you could try using the CD image drey posted or one of the pre-built bootable CDs from bootdisk.com and then copy the files off to a folder, add the USB support and then reburn a bootable CD.
> 
> If someone gets a bootdisk with a universal CD driver (none are truly universal, though) and USB support made please post the ISO image of it somewhere.
> 
> It is to be hoped that TiVo will integrate the HDXL fix into the rest of the line which would make this a moot issue.


Ah, makes sense. Hopefully the OP will respond with the added details...it would really benefit anyone limited to using a laptop.

Agreed...hopefully the update will be pushed to all units. I'm still wondering why it hasn't (so far) affected newer TiVo HD's. If WD has applied the latest Intellipark "feature" to all of its WD GP drives (which TiVo HD's use) it should/would eventually affect TiVo HD's but AFAIK no one has reported any issues. That would lead me to think that there is something different about the two units (besides the obvious). For that reason it also leads me to think that TiVo will only push this update to HDXL's. Only time will tell I guess.


----------



## cjv2

richsadams said:


> If WD has applied the latest Intellipark "feature" to all of its WD GP drives (which TiVo HD's use) it should/would eventually affect TiVo HD's but AFAIK no one has reported any issues.


Given that any control features would have to be added to drives by either firmware update or physical change (say, a new chip that was programmed differently), given that firmware is drive model-specific, and given that these are 160GB drives we're talking about in the base TiVo HD (i.e., a small level of capacity that is effectively dead in the market), I doubt that WD would go through the trouble of updating them on the assembly line, as it were. I would be very surprised if any WD 160GB drives do, in fact, have the latest Intellipark featureset.

But that's just my two bits of opinion. I have no idea what WD is doing.


----------



## richsadams

cjv2 said:


> Given that any control features would have to be added to drives by either firmware update or physical change (say, a new chip that was programmed differently), given that firmware is drive model-specific, and given that these are 160GB drives we're talking about in the base TiVo HD (i.e., a small level of capacity that is effectively dead in the market), I doubt that WD would go through the trouble of updating them on the assembly line, as it were. I would be very surprised if any WD 160GB drives do, in fact, have the latest Intellipark featureset.
> 
> But that's just my two bits of opinion. I have no idea what WD is doing.


All good points...and could easily explain why the issue hasn't raised its ugly head with TiVo HD's. The smallest WD GP drive you can buy is 500GB, so I'm wondering if WD is even making the 160GB model any more. You're probably right.

Since the TiVo HD has been OOS at TiVo for a while now I suspect the new TiVo Premiere will soon take its place. Hopefully they have resolved this issue and it won't be a problem for that model.


----------



## ADG

Just an update if anyone is interested. Yesterday I disabled intellipark on a WD (with the wdidle3 utility) that had suddenly gone into an endless reboot (after 3 months of service). When I hooked up the S3 nothing happened. Weaknees said it was probably the power supply. They sent one and I just installed it and restarted the unit. Everything seems to be just fine.


----------



## richsadams

ADG said:


> Just an update if anyone is interested. Yesterday I disabled intellipark on a WD (with the wdidle3 utility) that had suddenly gone into an endless reboot (after 3 months of service). When I hooked up the S3 nothing happened. Weaknees said it was probably the power supply. They sent one and I just installed it and restarted the unit. Everything seems to be just fine.


Great news! Still odd that the power supply decided to up and quit at the same time you upgraded.  But glad to hear things are good again.

Did you mean to say that you had to disable Intellipark on the hard drive you bought from Weaknees? Or did you just pick up a PS from them?

Enjoy!


----------



## ADG

Hi Rich,

I disabled intellipark on the drive I already had. This S3 is 3 years old. The hd died last October and I replaced it with a WD5000AVVS (which was recommended in the initial post in this thread, but has since been removed from the list) which I purchased from Amazon. At that time we didn't know about the Green drives and intellipark. Well, the other day the drive went into the endless loop. I took it out and saw the GREEN label on it. I came back to this thread and read about the issue with green drives, so yesterday I used the wdidle3 utility, replaced the drive, and found out the PS was dead.

Something interesting though. I watch the S3 via HDMI in the bedroom and run a 20 foot component cable to another set in my den. For the past couple of months the picture in the den has been less than perfect. Not bad, but it evidenced horizontal wavy lines - faint, but certainly noticeable. I just ordered a replacement cable thinking the one I have went bad. Well, with the new power supply (and the "old" cable) the picture is perfect! I guess the PS has been on the way out for a while and the trauma of multiple connections & disconnections the other day when the drive went into the loop (I didn't know what the problem was and kept trying to manually hard reset) was enough to push it over the edge.

Thanks for your interest and support Rich. Any further info or assistance I can provide to you or anyone with similar problems will be my pleasure.


----------



## richsadams

ADG said:


> Hi Rich,
> 
> I disabled intellipark on the drive I already had. This S3 is 3 years old. The hd died last October and I replaced it with a WD5000AVVS (which was recommended in the initial post in this thread, but has since been removed from the list) which I purchased from Amazon. At that time we didn't know about the Green drives and intellipark. Well, the other day the drive went into the endless loop. I took it out and saw the GREEN label on it. I came back to this thread and read about the issue with green drives, so yesterday I used the wdidle3 utility, replaced the drive, and found out the PS was dead.
> 
> Something interesting though. I watch the S3 via HDMI in the bedroom and run a 20 foot component cable to another set in my den. For the past couple of months the picture in the den has been less than perfect. Not bad, but it evidenced horizontal wavy lines - faint, but certainly noticeable. I just ordered a replacement cable thinking the one I have went bad. Well, with the new power supply (and the "old" cable) the picture is perfect! I guess the PS has been on the way out for a while and the trauma of multiple connections & disconnections the other day when the drive went into the loop (I didn't know what the problem was and kept trying to manually hard reset) was enough to push it over the edge.
> 
> Thanks for your interest and support Rich. Any further info or assistance I can provide to you or anyone with similar problems will be my pleasure.


Ah, got it now. Sometimes it's hard for my feeble mind to keep track of the various goings on that occur here, often at a fairly rapid pace!. Makes sense about the PS now. Although they used to fail now and then in the old S1's and S2's it's pretty rare to see that with S3's...but it's bound to happen I guess. Glad to hear that it improved the PQ on the component connected TV too...I hadn't ever heard of that being an issue such as you described, but it does make some sense. That might help others that follow, so good info.

Enjoy your "new" TiVo! :up:


----------



## Miggsoo3

richsadams said:


> To clarify, did you do all of that with a laptop? I have one of these (which is what I think you're describing) and it comes in very handy...
> 
> But I wasn't sure if actually running the wdidle3.exe program on a laptop with a docking station like that would work when the other style like this one won't:
> 
> If it does that's terrific news, but I'm curious as to why it would when the program (which is DOS) won't recognize USB ports/drives. TIA!
> 
> I see by your first post that you did use a laptop. That's very good news indeed, but I'm still confused as to why it works if it's still connecting via USB.  Any elaboration would be welcome.


I don't know why it works. Only thing I did differently from the instructions was create my boot cd for wdiddle3, instead of using the one that was on the forums. The one on the forums would not work on my system. Also I only had the new HD in the dock at the time not both after running the wdidle3 I shut down the laptop plugged both hard drives in and started my system back up. I did go into the BIOS to change the HD setting from ACHI to EID to run wdidle3 after I chaged back to ACHI to ensure my laptop booted back up. I used my Dell Studio 1537 to do all this.

Hope that helps, I feel like the dock is by far the easiest option for this. I didn't want to open my desktop and connect extra drives.

EDIT: These are the directions I followed to create my boot cd found on synology forum

1. Downloaded FDOEMCD.builder.zip from fdos.org/bootdisks/
2. Added wdidle3.exe to CDROOT folder
3. Executed MAKEISO.BAT to create new FDOEM.ISO CD image file. 
4. Burned FDOEM.ISO to CD and viola - it will boot to DOS and allows wdidle3 to run.


----------



## ADG

richsadams said:


> Ah, got it now. Sometimes it's hard for my feeble mind to keep track of the various goings on that occur here, often at a fairly rapid pace!. Makes sense about the PS now. Although they used to fail now and then in the old S1's and S2's it's pretty rare to see that with S3's...but it's bound to happen I guess. Glad to hear that it improved the PQ on the component connected TV too...I hadn't ever heard of that being an issue such as you described, but it does make some sense. That might help others that follow, so good info.
> 
> Enjoy your "new" TiVo! :up:


Thanks again for the support Rich. You're a good man.


----------



## richsadams

Miggsoo3 said:


> I don't know why it works. Only thing I did differently from the instructions was create my boot cd for wdiddle3, instead of using the one that was on the forums. The one on the forums would not work on my system. Also I only had the new HD in the dock at the time not both after running the wdidle3 I shut down the laptop plugged both hard drives in and started my system back up. I did go into the BIOS to change the HD setting from ACHI to EID to run wdidle3 after I chaged back to ACHI to ensure my laptop booted back up. I used my Dell Studio 1537 to do all this.
> 
> Hope that helps, I feel like the dock is by far the easiest option for this. I didn't want to open my desktop and connect extra drives.
> 
> EDIT: These are the directions I followed to create my boot cd found on synology forum
> 
> 1. Downloaded FDOEMCD.builder.zip from fdos.org/bootdisks/
> 2. Added wdidle3.exe to CDROOT folder
> 3. Executed MAKEISO.BAT to create new FDOEM.ISO CD image file.
> 4. Burned FDOEM.ISO to CD and viola - it will boot to DOS and allows wdidle3 to run.


Excellent. I know that will help others.

_*BKDTV*_: I'm not sure about the wording but I think this would be valuable info to include on your original post to help those with laptops.

Thanks again! :up:


----------



## richsadams

ADG said:


> Thanks again for the support Rich. You're a good man.


Ha! Me and Charlie Brown.


----------



## fljoe

Miggsoo3 said:


> 4. Burned FDOEM.ISO to CD and viola - it will boot to DOS and allows wdidle3 to run.


Awesome instructions .. thanks ... a quick question ...

Once you boot into DOS, how do you determine what is the drive letter of the USB drive that you need to run wdidle3 on?

Thanks!


----------



## ThAbtO

CraigK said:


> We should have asked all the folks that bought HDXLs recently to put in the 30 second skip and/or clock hacks as an indicator of a reboot and possible software update.


The way I can tell my Tivo has rebooted itself is if the 'selector bar' on the Tivo menu has moved to the top when I go to Messages & Settings. I usually keep it at settings/phone & network.


----------



## richsadams

ThAbtO said:


> The way I can tell my Tivo has rebooted itself is if the 'selector bar' on the Tivo menu has moved to the top when I go to Messages & Settings. I usually keep it at settings/phone & network.


Never thought about it...but that's a good idea! :up:


----------



## Miggsoo3

fljoe said:


> Awesome instructions .. thanks ... a quick question ...
> 
> Once you boot into DOS, how do you determine what is the drive letter of the USB drive that you need to run wdidle3 on?
> 
> Thanks!


I just ran the wdidle3/d and if I remember correctly it tried to run it on my orginal hd and when it didn't find it there it automatically moved on to the one that was connected via USB. No need to select the drive, hope that helps

I did this early last week and now some of the details are a little fuzzy....sorry

Might do it again this weekend to better answer any questions other people might be having.


----------



## reubanks

I think he means "R: or possibly a different drive"

When the CD boots, look at the text output from the CD driver. It'll tell you the correct drive letter.

Randy


----------



## jlib

Miggsoo3 said:


> I don't know why it works...


From the FreeDOS Project: 
So far there is no USB driver support inside the FreeDOS project, but many modern motherboards contain BIOS settings for "Legacy USB" support which allow USB devices to be used in operating systems that lack support for them (such as FreeDOS). This applies to keyboards and mice, and some BIOSes can even support storage devices. Some external DOS USB drivers (such as DUSE, USBASPI and USBMASS) for storage devices work with some effort and luck. There is also DOSUSB which offers an API and supports storage devices, printers and serial adapters. An alternative to running DOS programs with USB devices is DOSBox, which recognizes USB devices from the host operating system to act as if they were "legacy port" devices (e.g. joysticks with game ports, printers with parallel ports, and USB flash drives would act as if they were a hard drive for DOS), but this requires an OS with a GUI.​I always wondered what the _Legacy USB Support_ setting meant in the settings of some BIOS. Apparently it provides a rudimentary support independent of the OS. So, "Legacy" in this case applies to legacy operating systems, not to USB itself. Learn something everyday! Additionally, you were correct to manually turn off _AHCI_ enhancements in the hard drive interface. So, with _Legacy USB_ on and _AHCI_ off, one could possibly boot a stock DOS disk and see a USB attached drive. And if not, then just add the USB drivers.


----------



## bmal1

jlib said:


> So, with _Legacy USB_ on and _AHCI_ off, one could possibly boot a stock DOS disk and see a USB attached drive. And if not, then just add the USB drivers.


I was interested to see if I could use wdidle3 with the sata to usb adapter. I tried FreeDos last nite as described by Miggsoo3 and had no luck. Then I added USB drivers, usbaspi.sys and DI1000DD.SYS, to the FreeDos iso with what I thought were the proper settings in the config.sys but the usb drive was still unrecognized.

It's possible I did not have the correct settings in the config.sys and autoexec or those drivers weren't compatible with my system. I have read about old iomega drivers that work well. Maybe I will try them tonite.

If anyone else gets this working I would love to know the details on how. Thanks.


----------



## Tu13es

I have a couple different versions of WD MyBook drives (not the TiVo ones). Is it true that *no* MyBook will work as an external drive? Or just a specific generation of them?

Also, regarding this section:



Spoiler



# Replace the built-in 160GB drive with a 1.0 TB model (157 HD hours)

Pros: Cost effective at $100-$110 for 1.0 TB. Preserves all settings and recordings. You keep the original TiVo drive as a backup. No extra devices in your TV room.

Cons: Takes 35-45 minutes. *Requires you to open the box and void the TiVo warranty.* "Plug and play" external drive expansion no longer works after you upgrade the built-in drive. No technical support is available for upgraded TiVos.



The bolded section is not true if you haven't upgraded your internal drive, right? Should be essentially plug and play, just without the support of the TiVo supported drives?


----------



## cjv2

Tu13es said:


> I have a couple different versions of WD MyBook drives (not the TiVo ones). Is it true that *no* MyBook will work as an external drive? Or just a specific generation of them?
> 
> Also, regarding this section:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> # Replace the built-in 160GB drive with a 1.0 TB model (157 HD hours)
> 
> Pros: Cost effective at $100-$110 for 1.0 TB. Preserves all settings and recordings. You keep the original TiVo drive as a backup. No extra devices in your TV room.
> 
> Cons: Takes 35-45 minutes. *Requires you to open the box and void the TiVo warranty.* "Plug and play" external drive expansion no longer works after you upgrade the built-in drive. No technical support is available for upgraded TiVos.
> 
> 
> 
> The bolded section is not true if you haven't upgraded your internal drive, right? Should be essentially plug and play, just without the support of the TiVo supported drives?


The section you quoted is entirely about removal of the internal 160GB drive and replacement of that drive with an internal 1TB drive. It is not speaking to plugging an external drive into an unmodified Tivo. So the bolded section is true - to replace the internal drive, you have to crack the case, and in doing so, you will void the warranty.


----------



## Tu13es

cjv2 said:


> The section you quoted is entirely about removal of the internal 160GB drive and replacement of that drive with an internal 1TB drive. It is not speaking to plugging an external drive into an unmodified Tivo. So the bolded section is true - to replace the internal drive, you have to crack the case, and in doing so, you will void the warranty.


My bad. I copy/pasted the wrong section. This is what I meant to post:



> # Add an unsupported 1.0 TB external drive (165 HD hours total)
> 
> Pros: Cost effective at $110-$130 for external 1.0 TB. Preserves all settings and recordings.
> 
> Cons: Takes 35-45 minutes.* Requires you to open the box and void the TiVo warranty.* Introduces potential second source of failure, since all recordings are split across both drives; if either drive goes bad, you lose all recordings made since the drive was added. Adds another device to your TV room. No technical support is available for TiVos using external drives other than the My DVR Expander.


----------



## bkdtv

Tu13es said:


> My bad. I copy/pasted the wrong section. This is what I meant to post:


Yes, the bolded section is true. If it weren't true, it wouldn't be in the FAQ.

Only the My DVR Expander (500GB, 1TB) external drive is "plug and play" with the TivoHD. Every other external drive requires you to open the TivoHD and void the warranty, regardless of whether you've upgraded the internal drive.


----------



## ADG

bmal1 said:


> It's possible I did not have the correct settings in the config.sys and autoexec or those drivers weren't compatible with my system. I have read about old iomega drivers that work well. Maybe I will try them tonite.
> Thanks.


Assuming you are booting to the cd, the system never sees the autoexc.bat or config.sys files.


----------



## richsadams

Tu13es said:


> I have a couple different versions of WD MyBook drives (not the TiVo ones). Is it true that *no* MyBook will work as an external drive? Or just a specific generation of them?


AFAIK no WD My Book eSATA drive is compatible with TiVo. In other words, they just don't work (something to do with the My Book enclosure/bridge, etc.) This statement in the FAQ is still correct:



> Do not confuse the "My DVR Expander" with a "My Book." They are different products. TiVo does not support any "My Book" drives.


 As bkdtv mentioned, If you have a TiVo HD you would need to open it up, pull the internal hard drive and marry any eSATA drive _but_ a WD My DVR Expander for it to work.

If you don't want to use a My DVR Expander the common practice is to simply replace the internal hard drive since you have to open it up, pull the drive and connect it to a computer anyway. Put the original drive on the shelf as a backup and you're in business.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## SAH2

I just took the cover off of my S3 and the inside does not look like the pictures in the first post (I realize now that is a TVHD, not an S3)

I have 2 black cables that run across the top of the drive and are somewhat attached with a white clip on the side of the drive.

Does anyone have instructions with photos on how to remove this drive without damaging the black wires and what I need to put on the new drive to hold the wires?

Thanks


----------



## fljoe

SAH2 said:


> I just took the cover off of my S3 and the inside does not look like the pictures in the first post (I realize now that is a TVHD, not an S3)
> 
> I have 2 black cables that run across the top of the drive and are somewhat attached with a white clip on the side of the drive.
> 
> Does anyone have instructions with photos on how to remove this drive without damaging the black wires and what I need to put on the new drive to hold the wires?
> 
> Thanks


If you look at the Weaknees website, they do have excellent "how-to" on upgrading your internal drive with pictures that is relevant to TivoHD. I am not posting the link here as I do not know whether forum rules allow us to do that.


----------



## SAH2

Thanks - those are just what I needed. The black wires had me concerned.


----------



## Tu13es

richsadams said:


> AFAIK no WD My Book eSATA drive is compatible with TiVo. In other words, they just don't work (something to do with the My Book enclosure/bridge, etc.) This statement in the FAQ is still correct:
> 
> As bkdtv mentioned, If you have a TiVo HD you would need to open it up, pull the internal hard drive and marry any eSATA drive _but_ a WD My DVR Expander for it to work.
> 
> If you don't want to use a My DVR Expander the common practice is to simply replace the internal hard drive since you have to open it up, pull the drive and connect it to a computer anyway. Put the original drive on the shelf as a backup and you're in business.
> 
> Happy upgrading!


Thanks for the clarification. Just my luck to hear that about the MyBooks.

I'm still a little confused by this section, though:



> How do I add an eSATA drive to an unmodified Series3?
> 
> 1. Disconnect power to the TiVo.
> 
> 2. Connect the eSATA drive to your TiVo with the eSATA cable. Confirm that the eSATA cable is firmly inserted on both the TiVo and your eSATA drive.
> 
> 3. Connect the power to your eSATA drive. Then reconnect power to your TiVo.
> 
> 4. Enable the eSATA drive through the Settings -> Remote, CableCARD, and Devices -> External Storage menu. Screenshots: #1, #2, #3.
> 
> These instructions also apply when adding Western Digital's My DVR Expander to an unmodified TivoHD.


That doesn't mention anything about opening the TiVo. Am I missing something?


----------



## richsadams

Tu13es said:


> That doesn't mention anything about opening the TiVo. Am I missing something?


The FAQ is referencing the the original TiVo Hi-def DVR known here as the Series3. "Unmodified" means that the unit has the original hard drive. The TiVo HD is the more recent model and the TiVo HDXL the newest (until the TiVo Premiere hits the streets). Although all three are part of TiVo's "Series3" line of DVR's, they are distinguished on the forum separately to avoid confusion. BTW the original Series3 is no longer sold by TiVo but can still be found on ebay and a few other places now and then. Here are the different models:









TiVo Series3 (TCD648250B - the "original" HD TiVo)









TiVo HD (TCD652160)









TiVo HDXL (TCD658000)

The differences between the three models can be found on these two threads:

TiVo Series3 : http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=315791

TiVo HD/HDXL: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=419994

That said, the _original Series3_ will in fact accept a number of eSATA drives or DIY eSATA drives via plug and play (but NOT the WD My Book line however). This is because some early eSATA adopters (including yours truly) found a way to connect them using a leaked software hack called Kickstart 62 (which no longer works) months before TiVo added the feature. Rather than brick all of the Series3's that already had an eSATA drive attached TiVo saw their way clear to allow them to continue to work while restricting the TiVo HD to the My DVR Expander. So if you have an original and unmodified TiVo Series3 you can still connect an "unapproved" eSATA drive via plug and play. There is a warning screen that pops up, but it allows you to continue the install by acknowledging the fact that you're connecting an unsupported external drive.

BTW, it's things like that and TiVo turning a blind eye to our upgrades that cause me to cut TiVo a little slack when things don't go exactly as planned sometimes. They aren't perfect, but they certainly could be a lot less user-friendly if they wanted to be.

Phew! Hope that helps!


----------



## ADG

richsadams said:


> BTW, it's things like that and TiVo turning a blind eye to our upgrades that cause me to cut TiVo a little slack when things don't go exactly as planned sometimes. They aren't perfect, but they certainly could be a lot less user-friendly if they wanted to be.


Oh, I'm not so sure. When I called Tivo tech support earlier this week I eventually convinced the first line support lady to connect me with 2nd tier. As soon as he heard I'd done a drive upgrade he said he could not provide any additional support. I happen to have a second s3 so we were able to talk about "that one" (as it were).

Then I had to call again yesterday morning. They refused to put me through to second tier even though I'd already been speaking with them the day before. They could not find a case number, so I had to stay with tier one. Nothing I said would convince him to let me speak with a real tech. Had to hang up eventually. Sorry, that's just not what I consider customer friendly. Not when I spent approx $800 each for two S3's + lifetime service on each (plus a now unused S2).


----------



## bmal1

ADG said:


> Assuming you are booting to the cd, the system never sees the autoexc.bat or config.sys files.


So are you saying the bootdisk doesn't have a config.sys? Because I was under the impression that is what I was editing when I made the FreeDos boot cd.

I thought a bootdisk had to have a config.sys to load drivers into memory.


----------



## richsadams

ADG said:


> Oh, I'm not so sure. <snip>


I should have added "YMMV" Although they can figure it out by looking at their logs, telling them that you upgraded closes the conversation of course and IMHO should. Otherwise they'd be dealing with all manner of problems that might not have anything to do with a TiVo if it were stock. I was referring to the fact that upgraded TiVo's still work, can be updated and otherwise act normally after an upgrade is all. That's certainly not the case with some other CE products...[cough]...iPhone. 

They probably have a note in your permanent record about your malicious activity.  Sometimes calling back, getting another CSR and buttering them up works...but I agree you shouldn't have to do that and the fact that they refused to go further isn't right.

BTW, _always_ ask for and write down your case number. You never know when it might be needed.


----------



## Da Goon

ADG said:


> As soon as he heard I'd done a drive upgrade he said he could not provide any additional support.


are you surprised?

if you read tivo's service agreement, you'd stumble across this statement


> You may access and use the TiVo service only with a TiVo DVR that is authorized to receive the TiVo service *and you agree not to tamper with or otherwise modify your TiVo DVR.*


I suspect that richsadams' "slack" stems from the fact that they'll simply deny support (as they *should*) as opposed to being more malicious, such as terminating service or being otherwise consumer unfriendly, as they now have the right to do


----------



## Tu13es

richsadams said:


> The FAQ is referencing the the original TiVo Hi-def DVR known here as the Series3. "Unmodified" means that the unit has the original hard drive. The TiVo HD is the more recent model and the TiVo HDXL the newest (until the TiVo Premiere hits the streets). Although all three are part of TiVo's "Series3" line of DVR's, they are distinguished on the forum separately to avoid confusion. BTW the original Series3 is no longer sold by TiVo but can still be found on ebay and a few other places now and then. Here are the different models:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TiVo Series3 (TCD648250B - the "original" HD TiVo)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TiVo HD (TCD652160)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TiVo HDXL (TCD658000)
> 
> The differences between the three models can be found on these two threads:
> 
> TiVo Series3 : http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=315791
> 
> TiVo HD/HDXL: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=419994
> 
> That said, the _original Series3_ will in fact accept a number of eSATA drives or DIY eSATA drives via plug and play (but NOT the WD My Book line however). This is because some early eSATA adopters (including yours truly) found a way to connect them using a leaked software hack called Kickstart 62 (which no longer works) months before TiVo added the feature. Rather than brick all of the Series3's that already had an eSATA drive attached TiVo saw their way clear to allow them to continue to work while restricting the TiVo HD to the My DVR Expander. So if you have an original and unmodified TiVo Series3 you can still connect an "unapproved" eSATA drive via plug and play. There is a warning screen that pops up, but it allows you to continue the install by acknowledging the fact that you're connecting an unsupported external drive.
> 
> BTW, it's things like that and TiVo turning a blind eye to our upgrades that cause me to cut TiVo a little slack when things don't go exactly as planned sometimes. They aren't perfect, but they certainly could be a lot less user-friendly if they wanted to be.
> 
> Phew! Hope that helps!


Aha. I forgot there was a difference between the Series 3 and the HD. (I have an HD).

Well, my warranty's only about 6 months old. Maybe once it's done I'll look into replacing the internal drive...

Thanks for the help!


----------



## PopcornGuy

This thread has been a huge help with DIY upgrades. A year ago I upgraded to a 1TB drive with no problems. This year I wanted to add a 1TB external drive and found all the concerns about the Intellipark issue here. With that and the posted solution I placed my order through Amazon for a cable, enclosure, and a WD10EADS drive. To my surprise when I opened the box today I see the drive manufacture date is 23 August 2009. From what I've read there are no Intellipark issues for this date. I'll be installing this tonight without the extra steps!


----------



## whitepelican

PopcornGuy said:


> This thread has been a huge help with DIY upgrades. A year ago I upgraded to a 1TB drive with no problems. This year I wanted to add a 1TB external drive and found all the concerns about the Intellipark issue here. With that and the posted solution I placed my order through Amazon for a cable, enclosure, and a WD10EADS drive. To my surprise when I opened the box today I see the drive manufacture date is 23 August 2009. From what I've read there are no Intellipark issues for this date. I'll be installing this tonight without the extra steps!


You might want to be prepared to do the wdidle3.exe program to disable Intellipark. There were definitely Intellipark issues with the WD10EADS drives long before the November date mentioned with some of the other drives. I have an older (not sure of the date) WD10EADS and it did require disabling the Intellipark.


----------



## ADG

bmal1 said:


> So are you saying the bootdisk doesn't have a config.sys? Because I was under the impression that is what I was editing when I made the FreeDos boot cd.
> 
> I thought a bootdisk had to have a config.sys to load drivers into memory.


Sorry, I thought we were talking about a disc created with the wdidle3 iso image. I don't know what is on the disc you made - sorry if I confused the issue.


----------



## richsadams

PopcornGuy said:


> This thread has been a huge help with DIY upgrades. A year ago I upgraded to a 1TB drive with no problems. This year I wanted to add a 1TB external drive and found all the concerns about the Intellipark issue here. With that and the posted solution I placed my order through Amazon for a cable, enclosure, and a WD10EADS drive. To my surprise when I opened the box today I see the drive manufacture date is 23 August 2009. From what I've read there are no Intellipark issues for this date. I'll be installing this tonight without the extra steps!


Two things, first whitepellican is correct. There were reports of the WD10EADS having Intellipark issues with manufacture dates as early as August 27th IIRC. Since yours has an August 23rd manufacture date it may or may not be affected. The earliest soft reboot problems appeared with a September 19 manufacture date on the WD10EVVS and for some other WD GP drives after that.

However if you're planning on using the new drive as an external there probably won't be any issues if it has the new Intellipark "feature" or not. TiVo doesn't initially address the external drive during boot up. For example the WD10EADS stopped working as an internal upgrade for Series3's a few months after they were issued, however they work perfectly fine as an external drive (for both Series3's and TiVo HD's). There's no guarantee that the newer drives won't be an issue if the Intellipark "feature" isn't disabled and they are connected externally, I don't believe anyone here has tried one yet. However AFAIK there's no reason to think that they would...but until someone volunteers we just won't know.

BTW, I think you'd make a fine TiVo Pioneer! 

Hope that helps!


----------



## PopcornGuy

richsadams said:


> Two things, first whitepellican is correct. There were reports of the WD10EADS having Intellipark issues with manufacture dates as early as August 27th IIRC. Since yours has an August 23rd manufacture date it may or may not be affected. The earliest soft reboot problems appeared with a September 19 manufacture date on the WD10EVVS and for some other WD GP drives after that.
> 
> However if you're planning on using the new drive as an external there probably won't be any issues if it has the new Intellipark "feature" or not. TiVo doesn't initially address the external drive during boot up. For example the WD10EADS stopped working as an internal upgrade for Series3's a few months after they were issued, however they work perfectly fine as an external drive (for both Series3's and TiVo HD's). There's no guarantee that the newer drives won't be an issue if the Intellipark "feature" isn't disabled and they are connected externally, I don't believe anyone here has tried one yet. However AFAIK there's no reason to think that they would...but until someone volunteers we just won't know.
> 
> BTW, I think you'd make a fine TiVo Pioneer!
> 
> Hope that helps!


I went ahead and installed the new drive externally without the Intellipark fix. The Tivo booted up just fine when powered on and also passed the soft reboot test when restarting using the menus. Is there anything else to be concerned about?

It could be that my new drive was made before the Intellipark "feature" was added, or not, or that it does not matter anyways since the new drive was added externally.

Whatever it is, I now have a 318 HD hour capacity!!! Thanks richsadams for all the help!


----------



## richsadams

PopcornGuy said:


> I went ahead and installed the new drive externally without the Intellipark fix. The Tivo booted up just fine when powered on and also passed the soft reboot test when restarting using the menus. Is there anything else to be concerned about?


The biggest concern I would have is figuring out when I'd find the time to actually watch 318 hours worth of recordings!  

Oh, and welcome to the TiVo Pioneer's Club! Your T-shirt's in the mail. 

Enjoy!


----------



## DougJohnson

I just successfully upgraded my Series 3 to a WD10EADS drive that was manufactured on November 12, 2009. The hardest part was running wdidle3 against the drive. 

It appears that the iso image linked to in the FAQ only works on ATA CD ROM drives. Mine was a SATA. So I had to build a DOS bootable thumb drive and add wdidle3 to it. That meant I had to find a computer with a floppy drive on it

But once I did that, wdidle3 ran and seems to have disable Intellipark. It took about 3 hours for WinMFS to copy recordings and all from my old 750 GB drive, both drives on SATA ports. All is well, my TiVo softboots, and I've got 157 HD hours. 

Thanks for the FAQ and thanks for WinMFS. Just a heads up on the wdidle3 iso.

-- Doug


----------



## bmal1

I created a dos boot cd with usb drivers that recognized usb external hard drives assigning them a lun and a drive letter if I chose. However, wdidle3 would not recognize the external drives, only internal drives. I read elsewhere of people attempting to run wdidle3 on external drives but no one had success.

I did find info in other forums (http://www.readynas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=38392&p=214564 and http://forum.synology.com/enu/viewtopic.php?p=46272&sid=7e39fa74a9e97497f7016b166fc13760#p46206 ) stating that if you have a computer that takes only IDE drives, you could use a Sata to IDE bridge board (http://www.kingwin.com/products/cate/accessories/adapters/adp_06.asp), plug that directly to the motherboard IDE cable and wdidle3 would recognize that. I have not verified this myself, but that could be an option for those without sata connections.


----------



## bigd2008

Is WinMFS still the only way to take advantage of the supersize option? I just upgraded my TivoHD using MFSLive1.4 for the upgrade. I'm showing 142HD hours. I'd like to get 157. I've never used WinMFS, but seems like the majority here does. What should I expect? I downloaded winmfs_beta9_3f.zip.


----------



## schwinn

bigd2008 said:


> Is WinMFS still the only way to take advantage of the supersize option? I just upgraded my TivoHD using MFSLive1.4 for the upgrade. I'm showing 142HD hours. I'd like to get 157. I've never used WinMFS, but seems like the majority here does. What should I expect? I downloaded winmfs_beta9_3f.zip.


Well, if there's no "supersize" option in MFSLive, then I'd say, yes, WinMFS is the way to do it...


----------



## bigd2008

schwinn said:


> Well, if there's no "supersize" option in MFSLive, then I'd say, yes, WinMFS is the way to do it...


Thanks. I gave the MfsSupersize option a try. WinMFS seems pretty easy to use. Hopefully it worked and my Tivo still boots! I'll find out later I guess...


----------



## Miggsoo3

Miggsoo3 said:


> I don't know why it works. Only thing I did differently from the instructions was create my boot cd for wdiddle3, instead of using the one that was on the forums. The one on the forums would not work on my system. Also I only had the new HD in the dock at the time not both after running the wdidle3 I shut down the laptop plugged both hard drives in and started my system back up. I did go into the BIOS to change the HD setting from ACHI to EID to run wdidle3 after I chaged back to ACHI to ensure my laptop booted back up. I used my Dell Studio 1537 to do all this.
> 
> Hope that helps, I feel like the dock is by far the easiest option for this. I didn't want to open my desktop and connect extra drives.
> 
> EDIT: These are the directions I followed to create my boot cd found on synology forum
> 
> 1. Downloaded FDOEMCD.builder.zip from fdos.org/bootdisks/
> 2. Added wdidle3.exe to CDROOT folder
> 3. Executed MAKEISO.BAT to create new FDOEM.ISO CD image file.
> 4. Burned FDOEM.ISO to CD and viola - it will boot to DOS and allows wdidle3 to run.


Ok so I was sitting around wondering why the usb wasn't working for people when I finally realized something. The dock I used has both USB and SATA connection, when I was using the wdiddle3 I was connected via SATA since I only had one hard drive in. When I ran the rest of the process I had to connect the dock via USB since my SATA port on my laptop didn't have a port replicator to run the 2 drives connected via the one cable. Sorry for any confusion, I feel so dumb just remembering that minor detail and I hope this clears up any confusion. Apart from that the steps described above are exactly the steps I followed.


----------



## SAH2

I just upgraded my original S3 to a WD 1TB drive thanks to all of the help on this site. I forgot or missed the Supersize option. Is it possible to do this now without removing the drive from the cradle? I am using a laptop with the USB to SATA cables, and was thinking of removing the drive cables and power cables from the Tivo drive and then just plugging the cables from the laptop into the drive to perform the Supersize.

I am asking as the most difficult thing about the upgrade was replacing the T-10 screws for the drive cradle. (I need to get a T-10 driver with a magnetic tip!)

Any dangers in destroying the drive or Tivo from this method?


----------



## rocko

SAH2 said:


> I just upgraded my original S3 to a WD 1TB drive thanks to all of the help on this site. I forgot or missed the Supersize option. Is it possible to do this now without removing the drive from the cradle? I am using a laptop with the USB to SATA cables, and was thinking of removing the drive cables and power cables from the Tivo drive and then just plugging the cables from the laptop into the drive to perform the Supersize.
> 
> I am asking as the most difficult thing about the upgrade was replacing the T-10 screws for the drive cradle. (I need to get a T-10 driver with a magnetic tip!)
> 
> Any dangers in destroying the drive or Tivo from this method?


Just unplug the TiVo and remove the cover and diconnect the power/data cable from the hard drive. If you can run the power/data from the computer to the drive you can just leave the whole thing intact inside the TiVo and run WinMFS.


----------



## richsadams

SAH2 said:


> I am asking as the most difficult thing about the upgrade was replacing the T-10 screws for the drive cradle. (I need to get a T-10 driver with a magnetic tip!)


Wow! That's real testimony to how easy this upgrade has become.  :up:

BTW, do exactly what Rocko recommends to Supersize your drive. FWIW Supersizing at any time will not have any affect on existing recordings, settings, etc.

Congrats and enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## Defender90

I have read as many of the threads as my brain can hold tonight so I decided to just post. I have an original, unmodified S3 and wish to go the 1tb external drive route. It would appear I'm in luck in that I have options. The WD MyDVR Expander is out of stock most places (on AMZN it's $400)--read somewhere it's been discontinued though I can't verify. 

I looked at Section IV, FAQ #28 of post #1 of this thread. I was uncertain of the freshness of that data (i.e. still available) and the ones that are 1tb and intended were Seagates, which have the worst noise of all tell and I've heard bad things about. I found on one site an Apricorn ADVRX-1TB, though it is also out of stock, and there were mixed reviews on if it worked or not. 

Without going into more detail, does anyone else have any current information on a readily available (larger online or brick and mortar locations) 1tb eSATA that is PnP? Or is it advised to buy an internal and enclosure? I prefer not to go that route, but honestly can't seem to tell if there is an OTS that has been verified to work. 

Any help is appreciated. --sc


----------



## wackymann

Upgrading the internal drive is the much more stable and preferred solution. If you follow the instructions closely, it's really not that hard. The hardest part is attaching the drives to the computer for the cloning process. Once they are attached, the winmfs program makes everything else a piece of cake.

If you really want to use an external drive, I believe the internal and external drives must be married on a PC anyways (unless you use one of the 2 officially supported drives made by WD - which are apparently very hard to find at the moment). If you are going to all the trouble of pulling drives out and attaching them to a computer, you may as well go with a single internal drive (IMHO). If you think you'll miss the extra 250 GB, you could always buy a 1.5 TB internal. I believe that can be expanded out to use 1.25 TB on an original S3. But I have found that 1 TB is more than enough space for me.


----------



## rocko

wackymann said:


> Upgrading the internal drive is the much more stable and preferred solution. If you follow the instructions closely, it's really not that hard. The hardest part is attaching the drives to the computer for the cloning process. Once they are attached, the winmfs program makes everything else a piece of cake.
> 
> If you really want to use an external drive, I believe the internal and external drives must be married on a PC anyways (unless you use one of the 2 officially supported drives made by WD - which are apparently very hard to find at the moment). If you are going to all the trouble of pulling drives out and attaching them to a computer, you may as well go with a single internal drive (IMHO). If you think you'll miss the extra 250 GB, you could always buy a 1.5 TB internal. I believe that can be expanded out to use 1.25 TB on an original S3. But I have found that 1 TB is more than enough space for me.


The original S3 (the one where CableCARDS go in the rear) can accept any external eSATA drive via plug-n-play. The newer TiVo HD will only take the WD MyDVR external drive via the PnP route so if you really have an original S3 your options are better.

Of course, I'm a proponent of the internal update route, but that's me.


----------



## mrbeefhead

Just curious if anyone has been able to run *wdidle3* on a drive that is connected via USB-SATA adapter?


----------



## ajburgh

mrbeefhead said:


> Just curious if anyone has been able to run *wdidle3* on a drive that is connected via USB-SATA adapter?


I think that's unlikely. The USB adapter makes the drive look like a generic USB mass storage device and the wdidle3 app (and firmware upgrade apps) typically require low-level direct access to specific drive functions that are not part of the USB mass storage specification.


----------



## mrbeefhead

ajburgh said:


> I think that's unlikely. The USB adapter makes the drive look like a generic USB mass storage device and the wdidle3 app (and firmware upgrade apps) typically require low-level direct access to specific drive functions that are not part of the USB mass storage specification.


I think you're probably right. Also, I just found this post on another site, dated 1/22/2010:



> I understand that Western Digital has modified the hardware on recent drives to make the firmware read-only, in order to prevent people from making "unauthorized" configuration changes to their non-enterprise drives. They have also removed the wdidle utility from their web site, though it can be found elsewhere.


In other words, wdidle3 may not work with the newest revisions of these drives.


----------



## cjv2

mrbeefhead said:


> Just curious if anyone has been able to run *wdidle3* on a drive that is connected via USB-SATA adapter?


I don't think anyone in this thread has. Folks have been asking how to do it (I was the poor schmuck who ran into this and prompted getting the WD10EADS deleted from the recommended list) but I don't think anyone has actually pulled it off.


----------



## cjv2

mrbeefhead said:


> I think you're probably right. Also, I just found this post on another site, dated 1/22/2010:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that Western Digital has modified the hardware on recent drives to make the firmware read-only, in order to prevent people from making "unauthorized" configuration changes to their non-enterprise drives. They have also removed the wdidle utility from their web site, though it can be found elsewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, wdidle3 may not work with the newest revisions of these drives.
Click to expand...

That bit about the tool being gone from the site has been true for a long, long time, well before that 1/22 post, and well before this particular issue came up, from what I understand.

That said, if you have any info suggesting that wdidle3 and/or Intellipark setting tweaking have been rendered dead-ends in practice, a link would be helpful. Thus far everyone reporting successful recognition of the drive by wdidle3 has reported successful Intellipark tweaking, so far as I know.


----------



## darobu

I have an Original Series3 with a WD My DVR Expander. My Tivo's internal drive clicks and won't boot; I assume it's dead. I'm considering cracking open the My DVR Expander, pulling out the drive, "InstantCake"-ing it, and dropping it in the Tivo to use as my primary drive. I'm ok with the decreased capacity.

According to this thread's sticky, at least one of the models of My DVR Exp. contains a drive that is a recommended internal upgrade. Not sure which one I have (will check when I get home tonight) but I assume any of the models would contain drives suitable as internal upgrades, but that may be incorrect.

Anyone know a reason this wouldn't work?


----------



## richsadams

Defender90 said:


> Without going into more detail, does anyone else have any current information on a readily available (larger online or brick and mortar locations) 1tb eSATA that is PnP? Or is it advised to buy an internal and enclosure? I prefer not to go that route, but honestly can't seem to tell if there is an OTS that has been verified to work.
> 
> Any help is appreciated. --sc


As Rocko mentioned you can add any number of retail or DIY eSATA drives to a stock TiVo Series3 via plug and play. The two to avoid would be the Seagate Free Agent Pro models and any of the Western Digital My Book models. The Seagate FAP's have a very spotty track record and the WD My Books do not work with TiVo at all. More here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7759969#post7759969

I also am a proponent of the internal upgrade method. However if I were to to add an eSATA drive to my Series3 at this very minute I would go with this one:

http://www.amazon.com/1TB-Fantom-G-force-Greendrive-Esata/dp/B001E06W8O

If you can wait a bit this drive often can be found on sale for as low as $79.99. The hard drive inside is a Western Digital GP drive which runs very quiet and cool. A number of folks here are using it successfully.

FWIW Fantom just released the Fantom GreenDrive II:

http://www.buy.com/prod/fantom-gree...-hard-drive-includes/q/loc/101/210802271.html

AFAIK no one has tried using it yet. I'd guess this will replace the Fantom GreenDrive linked above but someone will need to try it to confirm that it will work w/TiVo. I don't know of any reason it wouldn't, but it's still untested. If you feel like being a TiVo Pioneer there are a lot of benefits...like the undying gratitude of all that will follow in your footsteps. 

Happy upgrading!


----------



## richsadams

darobu said:


> I have an Original Series3 with a WD My DVR Expander. My Tivo's internal drive clicks and won't boot; I assume it's dead. I'm considering cracking open the My DVR Expander, pulling out the drive, "InstantCake"-ing it, and dropping it in the Tivo to use as my primary drive. I'm ok with the decreased capacity.
> 
> According to this thread's sticky, at least one of the models of My DVR Exp. contains a drive that is a recommended internal upgrade. Not sure which one I have (will check when I get home tonight) but I assume any of the models would contain drives suitable as internal upgrades, but that may be incorrect.
> 
> Anyone know a reason this wouldn't work?


I'm guessing you already have, but did you disconnect your WD My DVR expander to see if your TiVo would boot up? If so you could go ahead and divorce the drive and have a working TiVo. Not sure what model you have, but the 500GB WD My DVR Expanders have been exhibiting a life-span of between 12 and 18 months. However more often than not it's the enclosure that's failing and not the hard drive.

The WD My DVR Expanders use WD GP hard drives. Assuming the drive is good, removing the hard drive from the My DVR Expander enclosure, imaging it with IC and putting it inside your TiVo shouldn't be a problem. Prior to doing that I would run a deep diagnostic on the drive however. You can use WD's Lifeguard to run a full read/write/read test. There are no guarantees of course but that could help to ensure that it's not going to give you any problems down the road.


----------



## darobu

richsadams said:


> I'm guessing you already have, but did you disconnect your WD My DVR expander to see if your TiVo would boot up?


Have now; no luck. The clicking definitely comes from the front left corner of the TiVo. Thanks for the LifeGuard tip. I have the drive out and will run the diags tomorrow at work where I have a Windows machine. Hopefully this will allow me to resurrect the TiVo while saving a few bucks -- always a good thing!


----------



## ADG

darobu said:


> Have now; no luck. The clicking definitely comes from the front left corner of the TiVo.


Just to confirm, there is no clicking when the drive is removed, is that correct?


----------



## darobu

ADG said:


> Just to confirm, there is no clicking when the drive is removed, is that correct?


No. The clicking continues with or without the WD external connected.


----------



## GrayeDog

All, I've read through lots of posts, and the FAQs too many times to count. I'm set on going the 1TB internal upgrade route for my TiVo HD, as everyone says it's the best, but I'm quite conflicted on what drive to get. My options seem to be, in general:

HD Deskstar (not designed for DVR, quiet)
Seagate (designed for DVR, less quiet)
WD (designed for dvr, quiet, soft reboot problem).

Seems from everything I've read that the best bet is to go with a WD drive and run the wdidle3 program to disable Intellipark -- OK, I'm willing to. It's here that I have the problem:

How am I supposed to choose between the WD10 models? There's the EADS, EAVS, EACS, EVDS, EVVS...is there a difference? Am I better off, since NONE of those seems to be Intellipark-free, just getting whichever is cheapest, or are some of them bad, but others are about the same? I was following prices on the EVDS for awhile, but they seem to have gone _up_, so I'm back to square one. Thanks in advance!


----------



## ADG

darobu said:


> No. The clicking continues with or without the WD external connected.


Is the fan spinning when you provide power? If the clicking is actually coming from the back right (where the power cord is) and not the front left, and if the fan is not spinning, you need a new power supply. I had to replace mine last week.


----------



## fljoe

GrayeDog said:


> How am I supposed to choose between the WD10 models? There's the EADS, EAVS, EACS, EVDS, EVVS...is there a difference? Am I better off, since NONE of those seems to be Intellipark-free, just getting whichever is cheapest, or are some of them bad, but others are about the same? I was following prices on the EVDS for awhile, but they seem to have gone _up_, so I'm back to square one. Thanks in advance!


I went with the WD10EVDS from Newegg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136496). I will get it tomorrow. I tried creating the DOS CD with wdidle3 on it, however could not get to recognize the Plextor DVD drive which is a SATA drive .. pretty much like someone earlier had reported ...

It gives a msg, Driver version v340
Device Name: Banana
No drives found, Aborting installation...

Then goes to a:

I then Googled and found a solution that works .. posting here for someone who has the same problems ...

1. Downloaded FDOEMCD.builder.zip from http://www.fdos.org/bootdisks/
2. Added wdidle3.exe to CDROOT folder. ( http://www.synology.com/support/faq_images/enu/wdidle3.zip )
3. Executed MAKEISO.BAT to create new FDOEM.ISO CD image file.
4. Burned FDOEM.ISO to CD using ImgBurn and viola - it will boot to DOS and allows wdidle3 to run. No need to change directory etc ... wdidle resides on C:\


----------



## rb_9999

I bought a new Tivo HD to replace my Series 2 Humax unit. I upgraded the drive in the Humax years ago with no problem. I have read through many of these posts and looked the the "fully compatible" drives listed at the beginning of the FAQ. I plan to run the Tivo for a week or so to make sure it works fine. I have a few questions:

1) What is the easiest fully compatible drive to get now? I am thinking the "Seagate Pipeline HD ST31000322CS" from Newegg. I just want a drive that works. I don't want to have to fiddle around with it. Once you put them in they are basically the same except for the noise.

2) I have Windows 7. Nearly everything I see says windows. If I recall correctly, the MFS software is a bootable CD so the OS doesn't matter. Are the upgrade instructions at the beginning of this post current? It's dated 2007. Any newer easier upgrades that work in Windows 7?

3) Any advice or things to look out for?

Thanks. I always find a lot of info on these forums but they bounce back and forth and some things become outdated. So please bear with me since I know all of these questions have been asked in previous posts, I just want to ensure I have the most up to date info.

Thanks,
ROY


----------



## Meatball

Hey guys,

First lemme say, awesome thread, great info in here! I've run into a strange issue doing a Tivo HD upgrade with a WD10EADS drive and was wondering if anyone else ran into this before.

I disabled Intellipark using wdidle and also lowered the AAM to 128 using HDDScan before I attempted the upgrade. The drive copy with WinMFS from the original 500 GB to the new drive seemed to go fine and took about 3 hours to complete. I put the new drive into the Tivo, plugged everything back in and Tivo booted up without a problem. I wanted to change my input so I started going through Guided setup and when the box tries to connect to Tivo it takes _forever_ during the "Preparing..." phase.

The first "Getting Setup Info" connection that says it will take 3-5 minutes sat on the "Preparing (Preparing to Connect...)" phase for close to 10 minutes before it finally moved to the next phase and moved quickly through.

Then it popped up asking me to pick what channels I received. It popped up QVC in the background, I clicked on QVC and the picture locked up to a still image with "Please wait..." for 2-3 minutes. Then, finally, it said it needed to connect to get "Program Info" for 10-20 minutes. Once again, it's just sitting on "Preparing (Preparing to Connect...)" phase for going on 45 minutes. The swirling image is swirling and I can hear the HD chugging away if I put my ear up to it, but I'm not sure why it's taking so long.

Anyone run into this before or have any thoughts?

Thanks!

_Update: If finally finished up after about an hour. Box seems to be running alright, but I'm going to run it through a few reboots just to make sure._


----------



## jlib

Meatball said:


> ...Anyone run into this before or have any thoughts?


Which program did you use for the original expansion to 500GB? How much space is the TiVo reporting now?


----------



## richsadams

rb_9999 said:


> I have a few questions:
> 
> 1) What is the easiest fully compatible drive to get now? I am thinking the "Seagate Pipeline HD ST31000322CS" from Newegg. I just want a drive that works. I don't want to have to fiddle around with it. Once you put them in they are basically the same except for the noise.
> 
> 2) I have Windows 7. Nearly everything I see says windows. If I recall correctly, the MFS software is a bootable CD so the OS doesn't matter. Are the upgrade instructions at the beginning of this post current? It's dated 2007. Any newer easier upgrades that work in Windows 7?
> 
> 3) Any advice or things to look out for?


Hi Roy. Lemme see if I can put in my two-cents...

1. That drive should work fine. You can't adjust the acoustics but it's a 5900RPM drive (which is more than enough) and rated very quiet.

2. The FAQ is very current. Bkdtv keeps it that way and it was updated about a week ago. MFSLive is a bootable CD. If you have Windows you might want to give winMFS a shot...it's even easier!

3. Follow the instructions carefully and you'll be fine.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## richsadams

Meatball said:


> Anyone run into this before or have any thoughts?
> _Update: If finally finished up after about an hour. Box seems to be running alright, but I'm going to run it through a few reboots just to make sure._


Sounds like it was doing some heavy lifting (indexing?). If you kept your SP's, etc. intact but changed the Guided Setup right away TiVo would have had to have worked through a number of housekeeping changes.


----------



## Meatball

-jilb: I didn't expand it to 500GB, it came with it.

-richsadams: I think you're right about the indexing, it seems to be fine now. I've rebooted multiple times and I think it was just doing housecleaning.

Thanks everyone for the help!


----------



## reubanks

Someone upgraded it to 500GB, as the TivoHD ships with a 160GB drive.


----------



## Meatball

reubanks said:


> Someone upgraded it to 500GB, as the TivoHD ships with a 160GB drive.


Ah, sorry, you guys are right. I did upgrade from a 160GB. I also was upgrading my S3 that had a 250 and was swapping drives from my PC, so I mixed up the sizes


----------



## S3-2501

for anyone looking to experiment with ways to reduce the vibration from their Pipeline upgrade, I found this set of anti-vibration screws at a nearby store. This kit is 50 drive screws, each with a rubber grommet placed beneath the screw head. I took the drive mounting plate out of the Tivo and placed one grommet beneath each existing torx screw head, placed the screw through its mounting hole and then placed another grommet over the threads on the other side of the mounting plate. This sandwiched the mounting plate between two grommets for maximum vibration absorption when mounted to the Tivo chasis.

I put everything back together, and placed the Tivo back on some vibration absorbing material. Initially everything was really noisy, but then after about an hour or so it suddenly became much quieter. I don't know if that's a result of the grommets warming up inside the Tivo, or some other factor.

Anyway, the drive is now *much* quieter, and only occasionally gets loud enough to be really noticeable or annoying. Up close to the Tivo the noise can still be very loud, but from more than a few feet away it's usually just a barely audible low-end beat. Occasionally it gets more severe, but that doesn't seem to last too long.

Time and money now prevent me from returning the Pipeline and trying a WD10EVDS, but I thought I'd share my discovery of the anti-vibration screws for anyone else who has a Pipeline drive that's functioning fine but would like to experiment with ways to reduce the noise and vibration in a small and quiet room. If the Pipeline proves to have a long life then I think I'll remain content with the purchase.


----------



## darobu

ADG said:


> Is the fan spinning when you provide power? If the clicking is actually coming from the back right (where the power cord is) and not the front left, and if the fan is not spinning, you need a new power supply. I had to replace mine last week.


Can't remember if I heard the fan, but the Powering Up screen appears but never goes away. I wouldn't think that I'd get anything on the display if I needed a new power supply.

I've just baked (formatted for Tivo) a new cake (500GB WD) to drop into the TiVo tonight. Before I crack open the TiVo, I'll verify that it's not the power supply. Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## ADG

I agree. If the unit is powering up then it's not the PS. It's just that the clicking sound you described is also associated with a dead PS.


----------



## IamWedge

Lots of reading in here. SO Ill ask my Qs
Ive got an old Series 2 With the small 80G hard drive in it. I havent opened the case yet. I would imagine that the Hard drive is a WD IDE interface. The drive that I ordered is WD 1TB numbered EVDS. Yes, this is a Green drive. I did purchase a SATA to IDE conversion for the new drive. I see alot of talk about connecting both drives to a SATA port on your MB.
I do have an old computer (running XP SP2) that is IDE interface only. I just removed the drives out of it so when i take my Tivo apart I can just use a master/slave cable to connect the two together and run them in to the IDE on the computers MB. 

Question 1 Does it matter which drive is installed as master or slave? Like (old on slave and new on master)?

Question 2 Ive already made a CD with WINMFS 9.3 on it. I would imagine i have to make a new disk that i can boot the computer with and then run Winmfs.

Question 3 Once in to transfer my settings and some recordings to the new larger drive. I tell it from drive B (the old drive) TO drive B (new drive)?

Im sure ill have more Qs as i get ready to do all this.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

ADG said:


> I agree. If the unit is powering up then it's not the PS. It's just that the clicking sound you described is also associated with a dead PS.


A bad *internal* hard drive may also produce a "clicking" sound.


----------



## ADG

Phantom Gremlin said:


> A bad *internal* hard drive may also produce a "clicking" sound.


I never suggested otherwise.


----------



## whitepelican

IamWedge said:


> Question 1 Does it matter which drive is installed as master or slave? Like (old on slave and new on master)?


Not if you're going to use WinMFS. If you use the MFSLive boot CD, then you will need to make sure you know which drive is mounted as hda/hdb.



IamWedge said:


> Question 2 Ive already made a CD with WINMFS 9.3 on it. I would imagine i have to make a new disk that i can boot the computer with and then run Winmfs.


WinMFS is simply a Windows program. There is no need to use a separate boot disk if you have a PC running Windows already.



IamWedge said:


> Question 3 Once in to transfer my settings and some recordings to the new larger drive. I tell it from drive B (the old drive) TO drive B (new drive)?


It's pretty simple in WinMFS. It will show you the size and other info of each drive, so you will easily be able to tell which is the source and which is the destination drive. The drives won't have a drive letter associated with them, though.


----------



## lex3001

I am waiting for a new replacement WORKING TiVo HD from TiVo to fix my Netflix / intermittent hang problem.

So today I decided to hook up the replacement they recently sent. I unplugged my current TiVo while it was recording to make room in the rack. My current TiVo is also an HD and has a big drive I upgraded to.

Well, needless to say, the replacement TiVo had issues and I had to send it back. So later on I went and plugged my old TiVo HD upgraded TiVo back in, and oh boy was I happy when it wouldn't boot ;-(

It would mostly do the "Gray Screen of Death" as I like to call it. No text or messages, just grey, and no noise from the box to indicate hard drive activity. Sometimes it would hang in Powering Up... I tried to reboot about ten times in all, and I even tried to the PAUSE key a couple times to see if I might kickstart it -- no luck -- no response from the remote to any lights on the front panel.

Finally I pulled the drive and popped in WinMFS. Then I pulled out the trusty CD I made when I first installed that drive -- including backups of both the Boot and the Kernel. I restored both of those, then replaced the drive in the TiVo. It booted on the first try!!! Woo Hoo!!

Just wanted to say THANKS WINMFS DUDE.

I'm really going to bummed out when they finally send me a replacement TiVo that works and I have to reprogram all my seasons passes and lose all the kids shows we taped. And then we really won't know for weeks if the Netflix hang issues has truly been resolved...


----------



## richsadams

lex3001 said:


> I'm really going to bummed out when they finally send me a replacement TiVo that works and I have to reprogram all my seasons passes and lose all the kids shows we taped. And then we really won't know for weeks if the Netflix hang issues has truly been resolved...


Glad to hear your TiVo is working again. :up:

If you sign up for KidZone or Guru Guides TiVo keeps a copy of your SP's. When you connect the new box and it connects to the Mother Ship everything will be "missing" and TiVo will repopulate the info.

If you have any (non-proteceted) recordings you'd like to keep you can use TiVo Desktop or KTTMG to transfer them to your computer...and then back to TiVo again if you'd like.

Enjoy!

BTW, Spike at MFSLive.org is the author of winMFS if you'd like to send your personal thanks you can post on his forum.


----------



## MPSAN

I think that some of the biggest issues with the TiVo is when some keep trying to "tape" shows. The slots are for M-Cards and not TAPES. Perhaps TiVo can add a slot for SVHS tapes in the next version.


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> I think that some of the biggest issues with the TiVo is when some keep trying to "tape" shows. The slots are for M-Cards and not TAPES. Perhaps TiVo can add a slot for SVHS tapes in the next version.


I'd vote for a Betamax tape option...Beta's PQ was much better.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> I'd vote for a Betamax tape option...Beta's PQ was much better.


Well, I try not to buy a Beta version of anything!


----------



## reubanks

richsadams said:


> I'd vote for a Betamax tape option...Beta's PQ was much better.


Heck, I'd personally to see the VX format like the Quasar VR-1000. (I had one of these in the 80s...) It sucked, but it sure was fun to show it to people!

Randy


----------



## reubanks

Sorry, duplicate post.


----------



## richsadams

reubanks said:


> Heck, I'd personally to see the VX format like the Quasar VR-1000. (I had one of these in the 80s...) It sucked, but it sure was fun to show it to people!
> 
> Randy


Okay...most obscure CE reference of the week winner!


----------



## andrews777

dswallow said:


> Where did the noise estimates on the list come from? I'll probably stick with the EVDS drives since I used that on another unit and found it quite good. I had the impression some people weren't able to get the Intellipark feature turned off and instead had to live with setting it to a high value. But if that's not really the case, I've got no problem running a utility on a dirve, if necessary.


I have one of them running in the first of my three TivoHD units I upgraded. I would have gone with that again, but the base post didn't note that as an option. 

I now have 2 Hitachi HD31000 units to put in. Ah well, I will see how these work.

Brad


----------



## andrews777

andrews777 said:


> I have one of them running in the first of my three TivoHD units I upgraded. I would have gone with that again, but the base post didn't note that as an option.
> 
> I now have 2 Hitachi HD31000 units to put in. Ah well, I will see how these work.
> 
> Brad


Well, I was wrong. It is there, but farther down, not right with the "*" comment that I read. 

Brad


----------



## richsadams

andrews777 said:


> I now have 2 Hitachi HD31000 units to put in. Ah well, I will see how these work.


Hi Brad. I have two of those Hitachi drives in a NAS and they are very quiet out of the box. You can use the HDDScan tool to adjust the AAM down to 128 which should make them even more quiet. They run very cool as well. I wouldn't hesitate to use one in our TiVo's should the need ever arise.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## andrews777

richsadams said:


> Hi Brad. I have two of those Hitachi drives in a NAS and they are very quiet out of the box. You can use the HDDScan tool to adjust the AAM down to 128 which should make them even more quiet. They run very cool as well. I wouldn't hesitate to use one in our TiVo's should the need ever arise.
> 
> Happy upgrading!


I just listened to both units. They are making far more noise than the WD drive in my other TivoHD. It sounds like lots of seek and scan noise. I had run the hddscan utility to set the AAM at 128, but could that not be set right? It sounds like the drive is storing data all over the place.

Is this normal?

Brad


----------



## richsadams

andrews777 said:


> I just listened to both units. They are making far more noise than the WD drive in my other TivoHD. It sounds like lots of seek and scan noise. I had run the hddscan utility to set the AAM at 128, but could that not be set right? It sounds like the drive is storing data all over the place.
> 
> Is this normal?
> 
> Brad


Hard to say...you'd have to reconnect it to your PC to see what the AAM is set at. I've never used the HDDScan program so I don't know what it might show. I've always used the Hitachi Feature Tool v2.11 (must be that version). It shows the current settings, etc.

A lot of activity might indicate that it's still indexing or doing some other background/housekeeping activity. Try setting each tuner to a channel that you don't receive (I use 900 and 9000). Note if the activity stops or continues.

The drives I have aren't as quiet as the TiVo's OEM drive partly because the OEM's are 5400RPM w/two platters but they pretty much match the WD10EVCS I have in our TiVo HD...maybe slightly louder...and again I didn't adjust the AAM on the Hitachi drives.

Out of curiosity, what temperature is the Hitachi drive showing in your TiVo HD when it's fully active?

Let us know how things go.


----------



## abeln2672

Just wanted to first THANK the creators/contributors of this thread and report that I just installed a 1TB SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ in my Tivo HD. I can't believe how easy it was just by following the guide:

1) Shopped carefully for 1tb drives and settled on the Samsung because of a great deal on Newegg (came bundled with a dock for $76).

2) Bought an additional SATA>USB adapter (I'm using a laptop and needed to have both the old and new drives connected during upgrade in order to transfer my recordings).

3) Installed winMFS.

4) Followed the guide here to remove old drive, connect both to the computer, copy everything over, and install the new drive. Plugged everything back in and, voila, working like a charm with 157 hours of HD recording time!

Anyway, it's only been a few hours, but so far so good! Thanks again everyone...this thread is gold!


----------



## bkdtv

abeln2672 said:


> Just wanted to first THANK the creators/contributors of this thread and report that I just installed a 1TB SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ in my Tivo HD. I can't believe how easy it was just by following the guide:
> 
> Anyway, it's only been a few hours, but so far so good! Thanks again everyone...this thread is gold!


Please keep us informed how that Samsung F3 works for you.

Some older Samsung models (F1?) exhibited reliability issues with TiVos, but we haven't seen many reports on newer drives like the F3. That could be another alternative to the Hitachis and Seagates.


----------



## travisc77

I just upgraded my S3's 250 GB stock, with a 1TB WD EVDS knowing I would have to do the wdidle3 to disable intellipark. Did the copy with winMFS, said it was successful.

I figured I would test it in the S3 prior to working on the wdidle3. It seems to be stuck on "Welcome Powering Up" . It's been about 10 minutes and I'm a little worried. 

Also, I plan to do the wdidle3 from a PC with only an SATA Cd-Rom, that seems to be causing a problem for most, I made the Boot Cd as described, but when I boot to it it doesn't seem to have a driver for the CD.

Can anybody coming or help with these two issues?


----------



## whitepelican

travisc77 said:


> I figured I would test it in the S3 prior to working on the wdidle3. It seems to be stuck on "Welcome Powering Up" . It's been about 10 minutes and I'm a little worried.


Did you make sure you reconnected the power & SATA cables? I know it's a dumb mistake, but I've made it so many times that I thought it was worth mentioning.



travisc77 said:


> Also, I plan to do the wdidle3 from a PC with only an SATA Cd-Rom, that seems to be causing a problem for most, I made the Boot Cd as described, but when I boot to it it doesn't seem to have a driver for the CD.


Did you disable AHCI in the BIOS for the CD-Rom drive? Once I did that it worked fine for me to use a SATA CD-Rom drive.


----------



## travisc77

Yep I installed the SATA cables back properly. Even re-attached the original HDD and it seems to be working. Maybe the copy didn't work well?? Probably going to try again.

As for the SATA, what is AHCI? I do not see that option in my BIOS...


----------



## travisc77

Update-

I went ahead and formatted the drive with WinMFS, then restored a backup. Knowing this would only preserve the settings but that's OK and quicker. But it's still stuck on powering up. I can put the old drive in and it works fine, watching TV within 5 minutes.

Do I need to resolve the intellipark issue first? Could that be causing the issue? Really stumped here.... the drive is WD10EVDS maybe a bad drive?


----------



## bkdtv

travisc77 said:


> Do I need to resolve the intellipark issue first? Could that be causing the issue? Really stumped here.... the drive is WD10EVDS maybe a bad drive?


Yes. The Intellipark issue is almost certainly your problem.

If the boot CD linked in the fact didn't work for you, you might try this one:



fljoe said:


> 1. Downloaded FDOEMCD.builder.zip from http://www.fdos.org/bootdisks/
> 2. Added wdidle3.exe to CDROOT folder. ( http://www.synology.com/support/faq_images/enu/wdidle3.zip )
> 3. Executed MAKEISO.BAT to create new FDOEM.ISO CD image file.
> 4. Burned FDOEM.ISO to CD using ImgBurn and viola - it will boot to DOS and allows wdidle3 to run. No need to change directory etc ... wdidle resides on C:\


We need someone to upload a pre-made CD image version to a site like mediafire.com.


----------



## travisc77

Thanks for the info, that boot CD worked like a champ! 

That resolved my issues! Wow, and it even kept my recordings after MSF format! Those darn linux partitions rock!

Many Thanks again!


----------



## bkdtv

travisc77 said:


> That resolved my issues! Wow, and it even kept my recordings after MSF format! Those darn linux partitions rock!


Would someone mind uploading this CD image to mediafire.com or sendspace.com?

I just upgraded the last of my computers to Windows7 x64, and MAKEISO.BAT won't run under 64-bit Windows.


----------



## rocko

bkdtv said:


> Would someone mind uploading this CD image to mediafire.com or sendspace.com?
> 
> I just upgraded the last of my computers to Windows7 x64, and MAKEISO.BAT won't run under 64-bit Windows.


That's why they invented XP Mode - but that doesn't work for everyone 

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=784efe6bd59ec9228ef1259ff1b60e81df90d6974930cd7564328c9cace34742


----------



## pl1

rocko said:


> That's why they invented XP Mode - but that doesn't work for everyone
> 
> http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=784efe6bd59ec9228ef1259ff1b60e81df90d6974930cd7564328c9cace34742


Thanks. That made it real easy to just burn myself an image, in case I ever need it.


----------



## bkdtv

rocko said:


> That's why they invented XP Mode - but that doesn't work for everyone
> 
> http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=784efe6bd59ec9228ef1259ff1b60e81df90d6974930cd7564328c9cace34742


Thanks, I updated the first post with the new ISO image.


----------



## rocko

bkdtv said:


> Thanks, I updated the first post with the new ISO image.


Looks good. You may want to modify the narrative a tiny bit:

3. Boot from the above CD - hit "Enter" within 15 seconds to boot to DOS and run "wdidle3 /D" to disable IntelliPark on the WD drive. The message should indicate that idle feature has been disabled.

Thanks and keep up the good work :up:


----------



## donnoh

After reading this thread for the first time in several months I'm wondering if I should should keep a drive on standby just in case they start making drives that won't be compatible with Tivos?
It looks like the WD drives can be problematic if a utility is not run before installing in a Tivo. Can it get better in the next months?
I'm thinking I might buy a couple of Hitachi drives the next time they go on sale.
I currently have two Tivo HDs, one with a WD10EVCS upgraded drive and one with an Hitachi 1tb 7k1000 drive. No problems with either but they both have lifetime and I don't want to lose that for lack of a compatible drive when a drive poops out.
I don't care to spend a couple hundred now to forgo problems later. I also don't want to buy a couple drives today if in a year from now they are half as much.
What do you recommend I do?


----------



## rocko

donnoh said:


> After reading this thread for the first time in several months I'm wondering if I should should keep a drive on standby just in case they start making drives that won't be compatible with Tivos?
> It looks like the WD drives can be problematic if a utility is not run before installing in a Tivo. Can it get better in the next months?
> I'm thinking I might buy a couple of Hitachi drives the next time they go on sale.
> I currently have two Tivo HDs, one with a WD10EVCS upgraded drive and one with an Hitachi 1tb 7k1000 drive. No problems with either but they both have lifetime and I don't want to lose that for lack of a compatible drive when a drive poops out.
> I don't care to spend a couple hundred now to forgo problems later. I also don't want to buy a couple drives today if in a year from now they are half as much.
> What do you recommend I do?


I don't think they'll stop making compatable SATA drives anytime soon. The worst that can happen is they'll get cheaper. I'd keep a WinMFS backup handy just in case and kick back and relax. My $ .02.


----------



## moxie1617

It's been two years and nine months since I installed the DB35 and the Antec MX-1 -- the fan finally failed in the Antec case, comes to $.06/day. Drive is still fine. Swapped cases with the one I use for off site backups, that only runs four hours a week so it can get by without a fan.

Sure have enjoyed the extra hours and since swapping to the Siig e-sata cable have been problem free.


----------



## PinWiz

My TivoHD with a My DVR Expander 500GB drive is having problems booting occasionally, so I figure this is a good time to do the 1TB internal upgrade. I purchased a WD10EVDS about a week ago from Amazon, and got lucky enough to get one dated Oct 23, which looks to predate the booting issue many have seen.

I plan on copying a number of my recorded shows to my PC via Tivo Desktop before the upgrade, and then I will copy them back to the Tivo after the upgrade is done, since there doesn't appear to be any other method to preserve shows when both the original drive and Expander is present. 

My question is this, do I have to divorce the Expander before running WinMFS with the original internal drive doing preserve settings only? I would prefer not to in case I have problems with the upgrade and I could just go back to the setup I had previously.

Thanks for all the great information in this thread!


----------



## bkdtv

PinWiz said:


> My question is this, do I have to divorce the Expander before running WinMFS with the original internal drive doing preserve settings only?


Yes.


----------



## fljoe

PinWiz said:


> I purchased a WD10EVDS about a week ago from Amazon, and got lucky enough to get one dated Oct 23, which looks to predate the booting issue many have seen.


Just to be on the safe side I would download the ISO file of the wdidle3 program posted on the first page and boot from that CD and run wdidle3 /R to see whether the timer is set on this drive (this reports the current timer value). If it is set, just run wdidle3 /D to disable the timer and then re-run wdidle3 /R to confirm whether it has indeed disabled the timer.


----------



## kevinbuckeye

I want to upgrade my TivoHD and am considering:

Seagate Pipeline 500GB ST3500312CS 9

Everyone seems to say how loud the Seagates are, but 9 out of 10 on noise sounds pretty good to me. I only have a laptop, so I don't want to fool around with disabling Intellipark. The 500GB will be more than enough. I also noticed the Seagate ST3500321CS noise rating changed from 9 to 7. Is the ST3500312CS really a 9? If so I think I'm going to go with it.


----------



## MPSAN

Good Deal on 1TB WD10EARS + Free External case at Newegg.
$78.99 and free shipping! May not need case but at least it is FREE.

LINK


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Good Deal on 1TB WD10EARS + Free External case at Newegg.
> $78.99 and free shipping! May not need case but at least it is FREE.
> 
> LINK


I saw that this morning. It is a very good deal. I don't need a HDD and I already have a dock like that (which comes in very handy now and then...great for upgrades!) so I won't be ordering it, but it is quite the buy! :up:


----------



## bkdtv

kevinbuckeye said:


> I want to upgrade my TivoHD and am considering:
> 
> Seagate Pipeline 500GB ST3500312CS 9
> 
> Everyone seems to say how loud the Seagates are, but 9 out of 10 on noise sounds pretty good to me. I only have a laptop, so I don't want to fool around with disabling Intellipark. The 500GB will be more than enough. I also noticed the Seagate ST3500321CS noise rating changed from 9 to 7. Is the ST3500312CS really a 9? If so I think I'm going to go with it.


Note 9 = original drive.

I originally had both the ST3500414CS and the ST3500312CS on the list. The ST3500414CS replaced the ST3500312CS, but when updating the list of drives, I deleted the wrong drive.

_Edit: Maybe the ST3500414CS didn't replace the ST3500312CS? I'm not able to find it anywhere online. Maybe that's why I removed it in the first place._

You can read a review of the ST3500414CS here (measurements here). Some comparison measurements from that review, ranked in order of seek noise:



> Western Digital Caviar Green - Idle: 13 / Seek (AAM): *13 [email protected]*
> Seagate Pipeline HD 500GB ST3500414CS - Idle: 13 / Seek: *13~14 [email protected]*
> Seagate Pipeline HD 500GB ST3500321CS- Idle: 14 / Seek: *15 [email protected]*
> Seagate Pipeline HD .2 1TB ST31000424CS - Idle: 12 / Seek: *16 [email protected]*
> Seagate Pipeline HD Pro 1TB ST31000533CS - Idle: 15 / Seek: *16 [email protected]*
> Seagate Barracuda LP 2TB ST32000542AS - Idle: 15 / Seek: *17 [email protected]*
> Seagate 7200.11 1.5TB ST31500341AS - Idle: 17 / Seek: *19 [email protected]*


Seeks on original TiVo drive would probably measure 14~15dB in a similar environment.

If you have the means to connect a WD "Green" drive (ex: WD10EADS) internally with a SATA connector, as necessary to disable Intellimark, that may be the way to go. All of the 1TB drives on the list above are significantly louder than the WD "Green" drives, but they have the advantage of full compatibility out-of-the-box.



MPSAN said:


> Good Deal on 1TB WD10EARS + Free External case at Newegg.
> $78.99 and free shipping! May not need case but at least it is FREE.
> 
> LINK


The Western Digital WDxxEARS drives feature a unique 4KB physical sector. The TiVo was designed for use on drives with a traditional 512 Byte physical sector, so there *could* be a performance hit if using the TiVo software on those drives.

I haven't seen any WD10EADS vs WD10EARS comparisons with a TiVo.


----------



## richsadams

bkdtv said:


> The Western Digital WDxxEARS drives feature a unique 4KB physical sector. The TiVo was designed for use on drives with a traditional 512 Byte physical sector, so there *could* be a performance hit if using the TiVo software on those drives.
> 
> I haven't seen any WD10EADS vs WD10EARS comparisons with a TiVo.


So far two members have upgraded their TiVo HD's with the WD10EARS drives:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7720023#post7720023

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7736641#post7736641

The first member followed up about a week later saying that all is well.

It's been about a month and we'd probably hear about any issues they had, but perhaps they will confirm things are still good?


----------



## Golfguy54

Over the last several months, I've followed this thread (and read every post)! Was getting ready after getting a 2nd TivoHD to upgrade to a WD1tb but then the s**t hit the fan with all the intellipark problems. Being quite computer illiterate I was concerned about going the self upgrade route. A couple weeks ago I decided to go for one of the 1.5gb upgrades from 'the dude'. Waited till after the Super Bowl and finally installed it last Friday just before the Olympics were to start. The install was a piece of cake & I was lucky that my m-card did not even need to be re-paired (Charter cable). So now I've got 237 hours available and can record every 'Olympic Moment' and then some. I really wish to thank Rich, Bkdtv, Allen and everyone else who's contributed to this thread and helps make this a GREAT forum. 

Dave


----------



## Tivogre

So.... could a drive image, using WinMFS, from "the dude" be used to allow others to use 1.5 or 2TB drives in a THD?


----------



## rocko

Tivogre said:


> So.... could a drive image, using WinMFS, from "the dude" be used to allow others to use 1.5 or 2TB drives in a THD?


With WinMFS, probably not. A full-fledged binary copy probably would work, however.


----------



## Tivogre

Why do you think WinMFS wouldn't work? It works with THD XLs, so it recognizes 1Tb partitions...


----------



## rocko

Tivogre said:


> Why do you think WinMFS wouldn't work? It works with THD XLs, so it recognizes 1Tb partitions...


It's been discussed ad nauseum. The current incarnation of WinMFS allows for the original drive size plus 1TB. Since the XL is originally 1TB, you can add another 1TB.

One thread on mfslive.org:

http://mfslive.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=257&start=45

The "dude" doesn't charge an unreasonable premium for his drives, BTW. Just thought I'd throw that out there ...


----------



## Tivogre

I understand this. However, it is my understanding that "the dude" MODIFIED a stock partition lay out for a THD image so that it COULD be expanded to use 1.5 or 2TB drives (which he sells).

I can see no reason, given a working drive, why an image of one of these modified drives could not be taken and used by others to restore / expand.


----------



## rocko

Tivogre said:


> I understand this. However, it is my understanding that "the dude" MODIFIED a stock partition lay out for a THD image so that it COULD be expanded to use 1.5 or 2TB drives (which he sells).
> 
> I can see no reason, given a working drive, why an image of one of these modified drives could not be taken and used by others to restore / expand.


I agree - are you volunteering to modify WinMFS?


----------



## Tivogre

That's what I'm asking... why do you believe that WIN MFS would NEED to be modified, given a base DRIVE (image) that has been modified.

I am certain that WIN MFS, as it exists, WILL work with a modified THD image, and allow the use of 1.5 or 2TB drives.

It is just a matter of having an image with the correct partition lay-out to start with.


----------



## rocko

Tivogre said:


> That's what I'm asking... why do you believe that WIN MFS would NEED to be modified, given a base DRIVE (image) that has been modified.
> 
> I am certain that WIN MFS, as it exists, WILL work with a modified THD image, and allow the use of 1.5 or 2TB drives.
> 
> It is just a matter of having an image with the correct partition lay-out to start with.


Because the truncated backup will only backup bootpage, active boot, root partitions, mfs application partitions and media partitions necessary to boot the box (copied from mfslive.org) I believe the "dude" adds additional partitions that won't get copied in a truncated backup.


----------



## richsadams

rocko said:


> The "dude" doesn't charge an unreasonable premium for his drives, BTW. Just thought I'd throw that out there ...


Saaaayyyy...you wouldn't be "The Dude" in disguise would you? 

BTW, +1 on the reasonable pricing for a 2TB drive. :up:


----------



## Efranzen

Is the Seagate 500gb ST3500414CS still available? I don't see any online resellers that sell it, and the Seagate website doesn't list any resellers for that model.


----------



## ADG

It doesn't appear to be available, but the ST3500312CS is (I purchased one from Amazon last month).


----------



## bkdtv

ADG said:


> It doesn't appear to be available, but the ST3500312CS is (I purchased one from Amazon last month).


Can you comment on the noise?

ST3500321CS - 2 platter, 8mb cache
ST3500312CS - 1 platter, 8mb cache
ST3500414CS - 1 platter, 16mb cache

Both the 312CS and 414CS are single platter, 5756rpm drives, so you wouldn't think there'd be much difference.


----------



## ADG

bkdtv said:


> Can you comment on the noise?
> 
> ST3500321CS - 2 platter, 8mb cache
> ST3500312CS - 1 platter, 8mb cache
> ST3500414CS - 1 platter, 16mb cache
> 
> Both the 312CS and 414CS are single platter, 5756rpm drives, so you wouldn't think there'd be much difference.


I'm sorry, I can't. I purchased the drive when I thought I needed to replace a 3 month old WD in one of my S3's, but it turned out I simply needed to disable Intellipark. I am keeping the Seagate as a backup.


----------



## kevinbuckeye

I purchased the ST3500312C, so once it arrives and I do the upgrade I will comment about noise. If it is similar to the original drive I will be very happy.


----------



## ADG

kevinbuckeye said:


> I purchased the ST3500312C, so once it arrives and I do the upgrade I will comment about noise. If it is similar to the original drive I will be very happy.


I can't imagine it will be an issue.


----------



## Efranzen

The first compatible drive listed is the Hitachi Deskstar HD31000. Is that this drive from Newegg?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145287

Any known issues upgrading that drive with an e-sata -> USB cable?


----------



## richsadams

Efranzen said:


> The first compatible drive listed is the Hitachi Deskstar HD31000. Is that this drive from Newegg?
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145287
> 
> Any known issues upgrading that drive with an e-sata -> USB cable?


Yes, that's the one...good price too. :up: It would behave the same as any other drive when performing an upgrade. Although the drive is pretty quiet out of the box, per Section IV, #32 of the FAQ I would run hddscan for windows to tune the AAM to 128 to make it as quiet as possible.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## wdwms

My S3 history:

250gb with winmfs to 500gb; then 500gb to 1TB. On the last one (which was a truncated backup/restore) I keep getting: 

"Sorry! MfsSupersize failed!"

Any ideas on this guys? My Tivo HD worked fine going from the original 160gb to a 1TB; that now shows 157 hours; but the S3 is stuck at 134 hours of HD

-t


----------



## Kevin R

Upgrading cable service to HD, so need to do the 1T upgrade.
Was al little down after reading all the recommended WD drives dropping like flys.
From read the post though, am I correct to assume that if I buy a current WD10EADS, or WD10EVDS and use wdidle3 to turn of intellipark, and then use winmfs to transfer everything, I should be fine?
Also, I have limited drive connections in my PC. I always see it recommended todo a back up of the old drive, then put both drives in and copy.
Can I just do the back up, and then load it, rather than having to have room for both drives and the windows drive?

Thanks much.
Kevin R


----------



## richsadams

Kevin R said:


> Upgrading cable service to HD, so need to do the 1T upgrade.
> Was al little down after reading all the recommended WD drives dropping like flys.
> From read the post though, am I correct to assume that if I buy a current WD10EADS, or WD10EVDS and use wdidle3 to turn of intellipark, and then use winmfs to transfer everything, I should be fine?
> Also, I have limited drive connections in my PC. I always see it recommended todo a back up of the old drive, then put both drives in and copy.
> Can I just do the back up, and then load it, rather than having to have room for both drives and the windows drive?
> 
> Thanks much.
> Kevin R


Yes, if you run wididle3 on newer WD drives to disable the Intellipark "feature" everything should be fine.

Do you want to keep your current recordings? If not, you only need one drive connected at a time. Your truncated backup includes all of the OS/critical info (cable card, Season Passes, etc.) but not any recordings. Basically you connect the TiVo drive, run winMFS and complete the backup (only takes a few minutes at most). Disconnect the TiVo drive, connect your new drive and image it with the backup (a few more minutes). Done!

If you want to copy everything including your recordings you'll need to have both the original TiVo and your new drive connected (along with your Windows drive). Most PC's have several open SATA connections. If you're still limited to one and you have a SATA optical drive (DVD or CD) you can use those connections. Worst case you can connect one via SATA and the other via a USB to SATA adapter or dock. Have a read through the first post and you should be able to figure out a way that will work for you, but if not, feel free to post more details.

Either way, be sure to follow all of the directions carefully and you'll be enjoying your "new" TiVo in no time.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## MPSAN

Kevin R said:


> Upgrading cable service to HD, so need to do the 1T upgrade.
> Was al little down after reading all the recommended WD drives dropping like flys.
> From read the post though, am I correct to assume that if I buy a current WD10EADS, or WD10EVDS and use wdidle3 to turn of intellipark, and then use winmfs to transfer everything, I should be fine?
> Also, I have limited drive connections in my PC. I always see it recommended todo a back up of the old drive, then put both drives in and copy.
> Can I just do the back up, and then load it, rather than having to have room for both drives and the windows drive?
> 
> Thanks much.
> Kevin R


...and do not forget, no matter which method you use to turn off anti virus programs in the PC and before removing the TiVo drive, delete all shows in the deleted folder!!


----------



## Kevin R

Thanks for the confidence boosting help.
I am just waiting for Comcast to come next week with the cablecards so they will be on the old drive and the new one.
I was going to do both the OS and shows, but have decided I have it low enough to just transfer the ones that are left to the PC before doing the upgrade.
That way it will take less time, and I can do it with only one extra SATA connection.

I have an older P4 board that has 4 SATA connections, but 2 are off the intel chip, and 2 are off a promise chip set for RAID. Never have had much luck with that turned on and some drives running through the promis and others the intel, so I just disabled it.
Really don't want to have to spend days trying to iron out the issues with a SATA first gen board, just to run a few minutes of drive setup for the TIVO if at all possible.

Any preference between the EADS and EVDS?

Thanks again,

Kevin R


----------



## richsadams

Kevin R said:


> Thanks for the confidence boosting help.
> I am just waiting for Comcast to come next week with the cablecards so they will be on the old drive and the new one.
> I was going to do both the OS and shows, but have decided I have it low enough to just transfer the ones that are left to the PC before doing the upgrade.
> That way it will take less time, and I can do it with only one extra SATA connection.
> 
> I have an older P4 board that has 4 SATA connections, but 2 are off the intel chip, and 2 are off a promise chip set for RAID. Never have had much luck with that turned on and some drives running through the promis and others the intel, so I just disabled it.
> Really don't want to have to spend days trying to iron out the issues with a SATA first gen board, just to run a few minutes of drive setup for the TIVO if at all possible.
> 
> Any preference between the EADS and EVDS?
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Kevin R


IIRC the EVDS was was A/V dedicated and the acoustic specs were a little lower (quieter). Either would suit though...you can always tune the EADS to the lower AAM setting per the first post.

The whole upgrade process looks a bit complicated but that's only because Spike and bkdtv have taken the time to spell out every last detail. Once you do it you'll find it to be quite simple.

BTW, good points by MPSAN about deleting anything in the Recently Deleted folder if you're going to copy all of your recordings over. If you're not (and it doesn't sound like you are), don't worry about deleting anything.

Keep us posted!


----------



## Bierboy

Count me as another whose WD MyDVR 500gb Expander failed (connected to a TiVO HD). It's under limited warranty, but all WD will do is replace it, and I'm not sure that's what I want to do. I may slap a larger internal drive in it, but with an S3 that holds 107 HD hours, I can usually transfer shows as the HD gets full.


----------



## trameltanz

Gentlemen, I have fought back and forth on whether to upgrade my TIVO HD but finally bit the bullet, took apart my Seagate external 1TB HDD, and went for it last night. THANKFULLY I listened to the warnings about "mounting" the original HDD in Windows. I was using Windows7. PLEASE READ the instructions because after a couple of failed attempts in Windows7 I noticed that WinMFS will only work in WinXP SP2/SP3.

I installed a single HDD in my computer and took twenty minutes to install XP SP2. I did not install any drivers and fresh off of the first boot I ran WinMFS and the original TIVO HDD was recognized. I then proceeded to run my backups first. After successful backups I ran the MfsCopy. I did miss the step to make the NEW HDD the primary or "A" but my system booted as if it was straight out of the box.

All features worked but the network configs. I had to verify my network settings and connect to the TIVO network.

one word about this TIVO forum and source of information:

!~AWESOME~!

thank you guys SO much for making yourselves available

The result of this is that I can travel and be busy but STILL record ~129 HOURS of the Olympics! I LOVE it!


----------



## rocko

trameltanz said:


> I noticed that WinMFS will only work in WinXP SP2/SP3.


Not true. It works fine on Windows 7 as long as you run WinMFS as Administrator. However, congratulations. Enjoy!


----------



## trameltanz

Seriously? I saw the RUN AS ADMINISTRATOR instruction but was too stubborn...

My regular ID is in the local admin group. Sounds like I should have tried the local ADMINISTRATOR account. One click and a few taps saves time over an XP install.

I had another motivator though; my version of Win7 is an eval and runs out in a few days.

Do I NEED to make the new disk the "A"? My reasoning was it should be A only if I plan to plug in an external/expansion drive.


----------



## rocko

trameltanz said:


> Seriously? I saw the RUN AS ADMINISTRATOR instruction but was too stubborn...
> 
> My regular ID is in the local admin group. Sounds like I should have tried the local ADMINISTRATOR account. One click and a few taps saves time over an XP install.
> 
> I had another motivator though; my version of Win7 is an eval and runs out in a few days.
> 
> Do I NEED to make the new disk the "A"? My reasoning was it should be A only if I plan to plug in an external/expansion drive.


Yes, seriously. Being a member of the Admin group doesn't provide elevated priviliges as does "Run as Administrator"

And, no, The new disk doesn't need to be 'A".


----------



## bldr85

I have Tivo HD and want to add 1TB Fantom G-Force Greendrive external drive using a Tripp-Lite 11 esata cable. I followed steps #10 & 11 but keep getting the message regarding an unsupported device. Any suggestions on how to hook up is greatly appreciated.


----------



## richsadams

bldr85 said:


> I have Tivo HD and want to add 1TB Fantom G-Force Greendrive external drive using a Tripp-Lite 11 esata cable. I followed steps #10 & 11 but keep getting the message regarding an unsupported device. Any suggestions on how to hook up is greatly appreciated.


Welcome to the forum. It's noted clearly in the first post that the only eSATA drive that can be connected to the TiVo HD via plug and play is Western Digital's My DVR Expander.

You can connect an unsupported drive (like the Fantom) but it requires pulling the TiVo drive, connecting both to a PC and marrying them together using winMFS. Since the drive has to be removed anyway, most folks opt to simply upgrade TiVo's internal hard drive and put the original on the shelf as a backup.

Make sure you read through the entire post so you can understand everything you need to know.

Hope that didn't ruin your day...but if you decide to upgrade...happy upgrading!


----------



## chestnu1

Hey guys I am on the verge of upgrading the internal drive in my Tivo HD and I am in the process of getting everything I need to do it together. I have downloaded WinMFS and just bought a vantec sata usb adapter from amazon the only thing left is to pick a drive. I want to go with one of the western digital green 1TB drives (yes I know about that darn intellipark issue). Is there one in particular that is better then the rest? I was thinking about the WD10EVVS but I thought I should get some feedback before I order does anyone have any suggestions.


----------



## jlib

If you understand and can work around the IntelliPark issue then you can shop on price (and noise level) for any of the drives on the recommended list or any drives that once were on the list that are affected by it. There are no performance differences.


----------



## chestnu1

jlib said:


> If you understand and can work around the IntelliPark issue then you can shop on price (and noise level) for any of the drives on the recommended list or any drives that once were on the list that are affected by it. There are no performance differences.


Thank you for your quick response I keep that in mind.


----------



## richsadams

chestnu1 said:


> Hey guys I am on the verge of upgrading the internal drive in my Tivo HD and I am in the process of getting everything I need to do it together. ,snip>


What jlib said and I'll add that the WD10EVVS is an A/V dedicated drive and would be as quiet as any available.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## nab2z

I just bought the WD10EVDS drive off Newegg and have been following the instructions in this forum.

1. Downloaded FDOEMCD.builder.zip from 
2. Added wdidle3.exe to CDROOT folder.
3. Executed MAKEISO.BAT to create new FDOEM.ISO CD image file.
4. Burned FDOEM.ISO to CD using ImgBurn and viola - it will boot to DOS and allows wdidle3 to run. No need to change directory etc ... wdidle resides on C:\

My issue is that I do not get a message saying the timer is disabled. Running wdidle3 results in the following:

WDIDLE3 VERSION 1.03
COPYRIGHT INFO 
Configure Idle3.
Model: WDC WD10EVDS-63U8B0
Serial number: 
Idle3 Timer is enabled and set to 3720 seconds (62.0 minutes)

Also, it seems that any of the other wdidle parameters just cause the program to hang (like wdidle3 /R).

Any ideas? 

Thanks.


----------



## whitepelican

nab2z said:


> Idle3 Timer is enabled and set to 3720 seconds (62.0 minutes)
> 
> Also, it seems that any of the other wdidle parameters just cause the program to hang (like wdidle3 /R).
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Thanks.


I might be off base here, but if it's really set to 3720 seconds, then I don't think you should have any problem with the drive at all. It should be good to go. People here have found that when they can't get the wdidle3 to disable the timer that setting it to longer time periods (even 25 seconds) makes the soft boot issue go away.


----------



## rocko

nab2z said:


> I just bought the WD10EVDS drive off Newegg and have been following the instructions in this forum.
> 
> 1. Downloaded FDOEMCD.builder.zip from
> 2. Added wdidle3.exe to CDROOT folder.
> 3. Executed MAKEISO.BAT to create new FDOEM.ISO CD image file.
> 4. Burned FDOEM.ISO to CD using ImgBurn and viola - it will boot to DOS and allows wdidle3 to run. No need to change directory etc ... wdidle resides on C:\
> 
> My issue is that I do not get a message saying the timer is disabled. Running wdidle3 results in the following:
> 
> WDIDLE3 VERSION 1.03
> COPYRIGHT INFO
> Configure Idle3.
> Model: WDC WD10EVDS-63U8B0
> Serial number:
> Idle3 Timer is enabled and set to 3720 seconds (62.0 minutes)
> 
> Also, it seems that any of the other wdidle parameters just cause the program to hang (like wdidle3 /R).
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Thanks.


Apparently, wdidle3 /d behaves differently depending upon the version. I created that boot disk with version 1.03, the one referenced in the FAQ. I used this version on my WD10EVVS and it reported the same results as you - 3720 seconds.

This seems to resolve the soft-boot issue, even though it doesn't appear to disable Intellipark. At least it did for my TiVo HD ...


----------



## JTYoung1

I have to say the instructions work great. I found one of the Hitachi 1TB drives at my local CompUSA yesterday and pulled the trigger. Copied my programs, season passes and everything over and had the S3 back together in about an hour and a half. Now I have a Series 3 with 157 hours of HD capacity. :up:


It did take some trial and error getting HDDScan to work. Apparently it would only detect the drive as an IDE on my front panel eSATA connector since it connects to an actual SATA port on the motherboard. The back connector was seeing it as a SCSI drive.


----------



## GrayeDog

All, I just received my WD10EARS from Newegg with the free rosehill dock, and I tried to use WinMFS to copy to it. Problem is, it doesn't seem to work. Here's the rundown:

I went through the step as normal, did the truncated backup, everything seemed fine. Then I went to do the copy from the TiVo drive to my drive, went to sleep, woke up, checked on it, and noticed the external HDD had been turned off; WinMFS was stuck about 1/3 of the way through telling me there was 6.5 or so hours left.

I canceled the copy and started again...went smoothly to about 1/3 again, and the time jumped all the way to 16+ hours remaining. It slowly moved down to about 12, and then jumped to tell me (no joke) there were approximately 1139309 hours remaining. Clearly, something went wrong.

Is there a problem with WinMFS because of the 4k issue with the WD10EARS? If so, is there a workaround? If not, could it have stalled the second time because the first time did a partial data write? If so, is there a way to clear my new WD10EARS drive and start over? I'd really rather not have to return it and pay Newegg's 15% stocking fee if there's a way to make the WD10EARS work.

I should note I have a TiVoHD, and it's almost completely full of recordings, so I know the transfer won't be super fast, but 12-16+ hours seems a little extensive. Currently I have my tivo drive plugged into a SATA port on my motherboard and the WD10EARS plugged into the Rosehill dock via USB.

Thanks everyone.


----------



## pl1

GrayeDog said:


> <snip>I should note I have a TiVoHD, and it's almost completely full of recordings, so I know the transfer won't be super fast, but 12-16+ hours seems a little extensive. Currently I have my tivo drive plugged into a SATA port on my motherboard and the WD10EARS plugged into the Rosehill dock via USB.


You have nothing to lose by doing a truncated restore to test things out. You don't mention the size of the drive you are copying from, but if it is 1000g (1t) and full, of course that is 157 hours of HD recordings. The usual approach is to permanently delete all deleted programs and to eliminate as many recordings as possible. Copying a full drive is going to take a long time, for sure. 12-16 hrs may be possible.


----------



## GrayeDog

Thanks for the response, I'm copying from the original 160GB TiVo drive, so I'm even expecting a few hours. I cleared the format of the WD10EARS and I'm trying it again, I guess I'll let it run for awhile longer, maybe til tomorrow morning. Although I may stop it, clear the format, and try the truncated backup just to check. I'd rather not clear out my recordings because I've got a ton of movies I have on there that I haven't gotten around to watching.


----------



## pl1

GrayeDog said:


> Thanks for the response, I'm copying from the original 160GB TiVo drive, so I'm even expecting a few hours. I cleared the format of the WD10EARS and I'm trying it again, I guess I'll let it run for awhile longer, maybe til tomorrow morning. Although I may stop it, clear the format, and try the truncated backup just to check. I'd rather not clear out my recordings because I've got a ton of movies I have on there that I haven't gotten around to watching.


What I'm suggesting is to first restore a truncated backup. It only takes 5-10 minutes. If that works, you can STILL do a full copy from drive to drive.


----------



## Majik45

Thanks to all for the up to date information out there. I originally did an upgrade probably 1.5 years ago on my Tivo HD. My brother got a Tivo HD for Christmas, and I wanted to upgrade his internal drive for him, and just successfully did the process again. Had to run the wdidle3 utility to set the timer really high (my WDEVDS10 would not disable it, but set it to like 37000 seconds or something). Upgrade went flawlessly, and it doesn't have the soft boot problem.


----------



## richsadams

JTYoung1 said:


> I have to say the instructions work great. I found one of the Hitachi 1TB drives at my local CompUSA yesterday and pulled the trigger. Copied my programs, season passes and everything over and had the S3 back together in about an hour and a half. Now I have a Series 3 with 157 hours of HD capacity. :up:
> 
> It did take some trial and error getting HDDScan to work. Apparently it would only detect the drive as an IDE on my front panel eSATA connector since it connects to an actual SATA port on the motherboard. The back connector was seeing it as a SCSI drive.


Congrats on your "new" TiVo! Curious as to how the acoustics are on the Hitachi as compared to the OEM drive. Since you used HDDScan I'm assuming you changed the AAM to 128? I have two of them in an NAS and they were pretty quiet OOB but I'm wondering how much quieter they are after being adjusted. For me they are pretty solid, quiet and cool running drives. TIA and enjoy!


----------



## richsadams

GrayeDog said:


> Thanks for the response, I'm copying from the original 160GB TiVo drive, so I'm even expecting a few hours. I cleared the format of the WD10EARS and I'm trying it again, I guess I'll let it run for awhile longer, maybe til tomorrow morning. Although I may stop it, clear the format, and try the truncated backup just to check. I'd rather not clear out my recordings because I've got a ton of movies I have on there that I haven't gotten around to watching.


When you say "clear the format" what do you mean...what are you doing exactly? winMFS formats the drive automatically so I'm wondering what you are doing and if it's affecting your ability to make a copy.

Per the others, copying via USB can take quite a while and IIRC you can ignore the time counter as it can change often and not be accurate. If you watch your system's activity (under Task Manager or better yet Process Explorer) and winMFS is showing activity all should go well. It is possible that your new drive has some bad sectors and the copy process is being stopped at that point. Did you happen to run a drive diagnostic like WD's Lifeguard? If you still have trouble with it you might want to give that a try.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


----------



## GrayeDog

So, I did the restore from truncated backup, and the new drive took it just fine. Plugged it in, TiVo started fine. Tried a soft reboot from the menu, and that started up fine. Which is great. I figured I'd give it another go with WinMFS.

I figured out during this that the "Clear Format" option is just to tell the drive it's not a TiVo drive anymore. I did this to the drive, then went to WinMFS and did the Mfscopy from my TiVo to the new drive. Everything was going well, the counter was using normal numbers, and it made it significantly farther than it had previously. However, it's been stuck at 00:39:45 or so for at least an hour. I saw that it's not a big deal if the counter is going, but the process is showing 0&#37; CPU in taskmanager. I can feel the drives are still going, and the LED light on my dock (which has the original TiVo drive plugged in) flickers occasionally, but it doesn't seem to be moving.

Anyone have any suggestions? All I can think of now are
1) Let it run, hope for the best, or 2) Start over and try it again.

That comment about a bad sector seems to make sense as to why it can't get through -- is there any way to fix something like that? Or is it a hardware issue that's going to come up during use even if I don't copy over my recordings and just use the backup? Thanks again everyone.


----------



## bkdtv

GrayeDog said:


> That comment about a bad sector seems to make sense as to why it can't get through -- is there any way to fix something like that? Or is it a hardware issue that's going to come up during use even if I don't copy over my recordings and just use the backup? Thanks again everyone.


The software and recordings are stored on different parts of the drive, and if the part of the drive with the recordings is in bad shape, you may not be able to perform a full backup. If that is the case, you can only backup the software and settings.

I assume you've already disabled any security and antivirus programs, as those can interfere with the backup process. Just to be sure such programs are disabled, you might reboot Windows in safe mode and try the WinMFS backup from there.


----------



## fljoe

nab2z said:


> I just bought the WD10EVDS drive off Newegg and have been following the instructions in this forum.
> 
> 1. Downloaded FDOEMCD.builder.zip from
> 2. Added wdidle3.exe to CDROOT folder.
> 3. Executed MAKEISO.BAT to create new FDOEM.ISO CD image file.
> 4. Burned FDOEM.ISO to CD using ImgBurn and viola - it will boot to DOS and allows wdidle3 to run. No need to change directory etc ... wdidle resides on C:\
> 
> My issue is that I do not get a message saying the timer is disabled. Running wdidle3 results in the following:
> 
> WDIDLE3 VERSION 1.03
> COPYRIGHT INFO
> Configure Idle3.
> Model: WDC WD10EVDS-63U8B0
> Serial number:
> Idle3 Timer is enabled and set to 3720 seconds (62.0 minutes)
> 
> Also, it seems that any of the other wdidle parameters just cause the program to hang (like wdidle3 /R).
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Thanks.


Hi nab2z,

In case you are not satisfied with the 3720 seconds idle timer setting, 
can you please try and download the wdidle3 ver 1.0 that drey posted:
http://home.arcor.de/ghostadmin/wdidle3_1_00.zip

Then follow from Step 2: above and after you make the bootable CD, boot into DOS and run wdidle3 /D. You will definitely see "Idle Timer is disabled" with this old version 1.0 of wdidle3. I just tried it and it works. If the wdidle3 program hangs, just reboot your PC and try again .. I have seen it hang after I have issued wdidle3 /R to report the idle timer and a subsequent wdidle3 /D hung the program. A reboot cured it and I was able to do a wdidle3 /D after that.


----------



## uTivo

Just replaced the stock 250GB drive in my S3 with a 750GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ( ST3750528AS F/W: CC38 ). Here's what I did:

1. Created a truncated backup of the stock S3 drive using WinMFS "just in case."
2. Ran the SeaTools 'Long Generic' sector test on the new drive to confirm it was not DoA.
3. Performed a drive to drive backup/restore using the MFSLive v1.4 Linux boot CD. I couldn't use WinXP/WinMFS for the D2D copy since I didn't have enough SATA ports on my P4 to have both drives & my XP boot drive attached. Besides, I'm a grad of the TivoMad/Hinsdale howto days on my S1/S2, so it just felt right using the cmd line .
4. Booted back into XP & did the SuperSize in WinMFS.

Now I have an S3 that reports its capacity as 116 HD hours! Just wanted to say thank you to all the developers & contributors who made this happen.


----------



## Efranzen

I upgraded my drive tonight and just wanted to offer my profound thanks to bkdtv and others who came before me that developed this process to make it comically easy for the rest of us.

I upgraded my TivoHD to 1TB using the Hitachi HD31000. I set the AAM to 128 as recommended and I can just barely hear the drive if I put my ear right next to the Tivo. With my TivoHD recording 2 HD channels and the volume on my receiver turned off, I can not hear the hard drive from anywhere in the room unless I get very close to the Tivo.

The one small contribution I can make to this thread is a recommendation of a SATA to USB device for those of us that have to do the upgrade in this manner. In reading the various reviews at Newegg and other sites, it seems that many of the SATA to USB devices tend to be flaky at best, with some of them appearing to be outright dangerous with a risk of catching on fire. The one I used is made by Apricorn, and while it's a little more expensive than some others, it worked flawlessly for me. Here's a link to the one I used:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...2161002&cm_re=apricorn-_-12-161-002-_-Product


----------



## richsadams

uTivo said:


> Besides, I'm a grad of the TivoMad/Hinsdale howto days on my S1/S2, ...


Ah, the good old days.  Enjoy!


----------



## richsadams

Efranzen said:


> I upgraded my TivoHD to 1TB using the Hitachi HD31000. I set the AAM to 128 as recommended and I can just barely hear the drive if I put my ear right next to the Tivo. With my TivoHD recording 2 HD channels and the volume on my receiver turned off, I can not hear the hard drive from anywhere in the room unless I get very close to the Tivo.
> 
> The one small contribution I can make to this thread is a recommendation of a SATA to USB device for those of us that have to do the upgrade in this manner. In reading the various reviews at Newegg and other sites, it seems that many of the SATA to USB devices tend to be flaky at best, with some of them appearing to be outright dangerous with a risk of catching on fire. The one I used is made by Apricorn, and while it's a little more expensive than some others, it worked flawlessly for me. Here's a link to the one I used:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...2161002&cm_re=apricorn-_-12-161-002-_-Product


Thanks for the feedback (especially on the Hitachi drive...which is rapidly approaching being a favorite, at least for me) and the recommendation. Apricorn makes some very good products.

Enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## pl1

I posted this question on mfslive.org, but I thought maybe I'd try here as well. 

I have a 1T drive I upgraded from an original 160g THD. All went well. 

I had new cableCARDs installed while the 1T drive was still installed. So, as a backup, I wanted to restore the cableCARD info to the 160g drive. 

I tried to copy the 1T to the 160g drive with WinMFS. Although it did complete, I noticed that WinMFS thought the 160g drive was also a 1T drive and there was an error message when trying to access it. 

So, instead I did a restore of the truncated 1T backup to the 160g drive. This worked fine. Except, when I booted up in the THD, with the 160g drive, it went from Power Up, to Almost There, back to Power Up, and then I got a 3 hour green screen repair message. It took about 10 minutes to repair, and rebooted normally, and everything appears to be working fine now. 

So now I have a few questions: Do you think this method worked successfully, or could there be problems down the road? Also, is there another way I should have handled this? From everything I've read (searching after the fact), I should not have even been allowed to do this anyway, at least based on what Ive seen regarding an Instacake restoration. Should I have used MFS tools maybe?


----------



## GrayeDog

So, not all is well in upgrade land. I tried one more attempt with WinMFS in Safe Mode, but after 16 hours, it's still stuck at about 2/3 of the way through (which looks to be just about where it's gotten stuck every other attempt I've made). I downloaded the WD Lifeguard, and wanted to run the expanded test, but it looks like it's going to take 100 hours, since it's a 1Tb drive. I think I also remember seeing that, even when I did the truncated restore to the new drive, TiVo's settings said I only had 21 HD hours and 188 SD hours, which is totally wrong.

It certainly seems like the new drive is the problem. Does anyone have any thoughts on anything else I can try, or can anyone agree that the drive might be the problem, so I can look into returning it and getting the Hitachi HD31000 from Amazon for $89.99?

Thanks everyone.


----------



## pl1

GrayeDog said:


> I think I also remember seeing that, even when I did the truncated restore to the new drive, TiVo's settings said I only had 21 HD hours and 188 SD hours, which is totally wrong.


When the restore completes, you should have had a dialog box come up that asked if you wanted to expand the drive. You have to say Yes. And you can optionally do the expand after the fact. There is a drop down for that. Plus, you can also Supersize, adding even more space.


----------



## ajburgh

chestnu1 said:


> Hey guys I am on the verge of upgrading the internal drive in my Tivo HD and I am in the process of getting everything I need to do it together. I have downloaded WinMFS and just bought a vantec sata usb adapter from amazon the only thing left is to pick a drive. I want to go with one of the western digital green 1TB drives (yes I know about that darn intellipark issue). Is there one in particular that is better then the rest? I was thinking about the WD10EVVS but I thought I should get some feedback before I order does anyone have any suggestions.


A warning if you want to use a WD Green drive with a USB-SATA adapter.

You probably will not be able to disable the intellipark with wdidle3 if you hook up the drive to a USB-SATA adapter. It will most likely need to be directly connected to a SATA port on the computer for wdidle3 to work.


----------



## GrayeDog

One more question -- Let's say the drive is the problem in using WinMFS to transfer from one TiVo to the other. If I do a restore from truncated backup, and do the "expand drive" (which is clearly the step I forgot), am I going to see problems down the line in saving recordings? As in, if the drive has a bed sector or something similar, could that cause a problem later on even if I can successfully install it and get TiVo to start with the drive?


----------



## richsadams

pl1 said:


> When the restore completes, you should have had a dialog box come up that asked if you wanted to expand the drive. You have to say Yes.


Correct, and it's possible that if you didn't see the dialog box it appeared behind the regular winMFS box. It's a bit of a bug that happens now and then but not always. Keeping the regular winMFS box to one side of your screen (or if you have multiple screens, on another screen) will ensure that you see everything that appears.


----------



## rocko

GrayeDog said:


> One more question -- Let's say the drive is the problem in using WinMFS to transfer from one TiVo to the other. If I do a restore from truncated backup, and do the "expand drive" (which is clearly the step I forgot), am I going to see problems down the line in saving recordings? As in, if the drive has a bed sector or something similar, could that cause a problem later on even if I can successfully install it and get TiVo to start with the drive?


Possibly. That's why it's a good idea to save the truncated backup as well as the original 160/250GB drive. Just in case.


----------



## richsadams

ajburgh said:


> A warning if you want to use a WD Green drive with a USB-SATA adapter.
> 
> You probably will not be able to disable the intellipark with wdidle3 if you hook up the drive to a USB-SATA adapter. It will most likely need to be directly connected to a SATA port on the computer for wdidle3 to work.


That is correct. As stated in Section IV, #29 of the FAQ:



> At this time, the procedure only works for drives connected directly to a computer with SATA or eSATA. It does not work for drives connected with a USB -> SATA adapter.


----------



## richsadams

GrayeDog said:


> One more question -- Let's say the drive is the problem in using WinMFS to transfer from one TiVo to the other. If I do a restore from truncated backup, and do the "expand drive" (which is clearly the step I forgot), am I going to see problems down the line in saving recordings? As in, if the drive has a bed sector or something similar, could that cause a problem later on even if I can successfully install it and get TiVo to start with the drive?


The answer is "maybe". There's no way of knowing how things might turn out because there's no way of knowing if the drive is problematic and if it is how extensive the problem is. If there's one bad sector it probably wouldn't be an issue...but where there one there is almost always more. All drives (especially as large as they are today) have bad sectors and other issues but there are built in programs, etc. to resolve things (either on the drive or via the software accessing the drive) but some problems are simply too big to be overcome.

Your best bet is to run WD Lifeguard or another deep diagnostic OR just get an RMA and a new drive.

That's probably not what you wanted to hear, but it's about the only way to find out if it's a problem with your new drive or not.

Me? I wouldn't risk things going south sometime down the road even if you can get a basic truncated restore working. It just wouldn't be worth losing my recordings later.


----------



## pl1

rocko said:


> Possibly. That's why it's a good idea to save the truncated backup as well as the original 160/250GB drive. Just in case.


That's where I'm kicking myself now. I had so many problems with a bad cableCARD, I was afraid to mess around with re-installing the original 160g drive back in my TiVo when Comcast came, for fear they would change cards, and my 1T would have the wrong cableCARD info. So, now I've blown out my original 160g drive. Plus, I overwrote the truncated backup of it, not thinking it mattered. Duh! But I did do a restore of the truncated 1t drive to the 160g drive and it is still working normally day 2. So, maybe I'll be OK with that as a backup.


----------



## richsadams

pl1 said:


> So, maybe I'll be OK with that as a backup.


If you put it through its paces and everything is working okay you'll be safe keeping it as a backup IMHO. :up:


----------



## pl1

richsadams said:


> Me? I wouldn't risk things going south sometime down the road even if you can get a basic truncated restore working. It just wouldn't be worth losing my recordings later.


The only other thing, is that he used a USB adapter instead of hooking up directly to the MB. If it was me, I would try that first. I was reading that USB 2.0 is twice as slow as a direct SATA connection while 1.0 is another 2x slower. It may be timing out for a 160g full drive. Maybe Windows is not recognizing any activity.


----------



## pl1

richsadams said:


> If you put it through its paces and everything is working okay you'll be safe keeping it as a backup IMHO. :up:


Well, I admit that makes feel a little better. Worst case, I would just have to get an Instacake image, I guess. No sense worrying about it now!


----------



## richsadams

pl1 said:


> The only other thing, is that he used a USB adapter instead of hooking up directly to the MB. If it was me, I would try that first. I was reading that USB 2.0 is twice as slow as a direct SATA connection while 1.0 is another 2x slower. It may be timing out for a 160g full drive. Maybe Windows is not recognizing any activity.


That's not a bad idea, but it shouldn't time out...as long as there is activity. According to the OP activity ceases at about the same point every time. If that's the case, there's a problem. That's why watching winMFS via Task Manager or Process Explorer is a good idea. You can easily see if there is any activity. Trying it another way certainly couldn't hurt though.


----------



## richsadams

pl1 said:


> Well, I admit that makes feel a little better. Worst case, I would just have to get an Instacake image, I guess. No sense worrying about it now!


Yep, sounds like there was a little data corruption which TiVo was able to resolve so things should be fine. As you say, worst case you can always start fresh with IC. Enjoy!


----------



## pl1

richsadams said:


> That's not a bad idea, but it shouldn't time out...as long as there is activity. According to the OP activity ceases at about the same point every time. If that's the case, there's a problem. That's why watching winMFS via Task Manager or Process Explorer is a good idea. You can easily see if there is any activity. Trying it another way certainly couldn't hurt though.


Good point WRT the same point of failure. I agree with your assessment.


----------



## ajburgh

richsadams said:


> That is correct. As stated in Section IV, #29 of the FAQ:


Exactly. Just wanted to give an extra warning since chestnu1 explicitly mentioned feeling comfortable using the WD green drives but also mentioned using a USB-SATA adapter.


----------



## zeke009

bkdtv said:


> *Do I need to format the drive before I connect it to the Series3?*
> No. There is no disk preparation required of any kind. The TiVo Series3 will automatically repartition and format the drive.


I have a 250GB SATA drive (Western Digital WD2500AAKS) drive I recently removed from my PC. A larger drive might be in my future at a later date, for now this will work though.

I picked up a Vantec Nextstar 3 (NST-360SU-BK) eSATA enclosure on sale recently and threw that old system drive of mine in there. Attached it to TiVO HD and it says it is unsupported and can not be used.

I never reformatted the drive, so Windows 7 and NTFS are still in play. Is it an issue of the formatting on the drive and TiVo not taking over and reconfiguring or is this enclosure now blocked?

Any ideas?


----------



## moxie1617

zeke009 said:


> I have a 250GB SATA drive (Western Digital WD2500AAKS) drive I recently removed from my PC. A larger drive might be in my future at a later date, for now this will work though.
> 
> I picked up a Vantec Nextstar 3 (NST-360SU-BK) eSATA enclosure on sale recently and threw that old system drive of mine in there. Attached it to TiVO HD and it says it is unsupported and can not be used.
> 
> I never reformatted the drive, so Windows 7 and NTFS are still in play. Is it an issue of the formatting on the drive and TiVo not taking over and reconfiguring or is this enclosure now blocked?
> 
> Any ideas?


Read the FAQ in the 1st post, you'll find this.

II. Officially Supported External Drives (also known as "TiVo Verified" drives)

This section is devoted to officially supported expansion drives.

1. What drives does TiVo officially support?

At this time, TiVo only supports the Western Digital "My DVR Expander." This product is currently available in a 1.0TB version.

* On the TivoHD and TivoHD XL, the Western Digital "My DVR Expander" is the only external drive that will work without opening the unit and voiding the warranty.*​


----------



## sjmyst

Hi,

I have a Series 3 that has a 1tb internal disk that is failing (pauses, glitches, the usual disk failing symtoms). The 1tb disk was expanded from the original internal disk. I've purchased a 1.5tb disk that I'd like to use as the replacement internal disk. From the reading, it seems I can use up to 1.35 of this disk. But, there seems to be a limitation that in order to use 1.35tb (instead of 1.1tb), I have to upgrade from my original non-expanded 250gb disk using WinMFS. Is there any way to keep what I can of the recordings from the failing 1tb disk and use 1.35tb of my new 1.5tb disk (perhaps, a tool that just copies my recordings from my 1tb disk to the 1.5tb disk after it's been set up to use 1.35tb)?

Also, I'm still looking, but right now I can't seem to locate my original 250gb disk. If it turns out I can't find that disk. Am I stuck with only using 1.1tb instead of 1.35tb of my new 1.5tb disk (every little bit helps)?

I saw the following post that kind of implied that an upgrade from a 1tb to the 1.35tb could be done. I can't post a link to the thread. But, the post number was 7493341 for those that know the url. In the post mmmesq said "...and it bumped my HD hours from 142 to 198" on his S3. I've got the same disk as mmmesq, so it seems mmmesq somehow upgraded from a 1tb disk (my 1tb currently says it has 143tb HD hours) to using 1.35tb of a 1.5tb disk. But, I could be reading too much into the hours comment.

Thanks in advance for any help.
Steve


----------



## zeke009

moxie1617 said:


> Read the FAQ in the 1st post, you'll find this.
> 
> II. Officially Supported External Drives (also known as "TiVo Verified" drives)
> 
> This section is devoted to officially supported expansion drives.
> 
> 1. What drives does TiVo officially support?
> 
> At this time, TiVo only supports the Western Digital "My DVR Expander." This product is currently available in a 1.0TB version.
> 
> * On the TivoHD and TivoHD XL, the Western Digital "My DVR Expander" is the only external drive that will work without opening the unit and voiding the warranty.*​


I've read the FAQ a few times, but since My DVR Expander has all but disappeared from store shelves or is selling for more than double the posted price at Western Digital I looked elsewhere.

I've seen the 1TB model for $300 on ebay or Amazon compared the the $159 "Out of Stock" price on WD.


----------



## moxie1617

zeke009 said:


> I've read the FAQ a few times, but since My DVR Expander has all but disappeared from store shelves or is selling for more than double the posted price at Western Digital I looked elsewhere.
> 
> I've seen the 1TB model for $300 on ebay or Amazon compared the the $159 "Out of Stock" price on WD.


You can still use the drive but not as a Plug and Play Drive. You would have to install it using the directions in the FAQ.

I forgot to answer your question about the enclosure being blocked. The Tivo is looking at the model number of the drive located in the drives firmware, it doesn't care about the enclosure.


----------



## zeke009

moxie1617 said:


> You can still use the drive but not as a Plug and Play Drive. You would have to install it using the directions in the FAQ.
> 
> I forgot to answer your question about the enclosure being blocked. The Tivo is looking at the model number of the drive located in the drives firmware, it doesn't care about the enclosure.


I'll have to try again tonight after I clear the drive of any formatting (Win7 64bit was installed on this drive).

I tried a few times as directed yesterday, but each time TiVo recognized the drive it and prompted me to configure it I received a message stating it was unsupported and could not proceed.

Thanks folks.


----------



## moxie1617

zeke009 said:


> I'll have to try again tonight after I clear the drive of any formatting (Win7 64bit was installed on this drive).
> 
> I tried a few times as directed yesterday, but each time TiVo recognized the drive it and prompted me to configure it I received a message stating it was unsupported and could not proceed.
> 
> Thanks folks.


You don't have to clear the drive of any formatting. I think you may be following the instructions for a supported WD My DVR Expander. You can't do that with a Tivo HD and the drive you want to install. You have to follow the instructions in Sec V 10 of the FAQ for adding an external unsupported drive or Sec V for adding an internal drive.

You cannot plug that drive into the external ESATA port and have it work. You will get the message that it is unsupported and cannot proceed. You have to follow the installation procedure for an unsupported drive.


----------



## zeke009

moxie1617 said:


> You don't have to clear the drive of any formatting. I think you may be following the instructions for a supported WD My DVR Expander. You can't do that with a Tivo HD and the drive you want to install. You have to follow the instructions in Sec V 10 of the FAQ for adding an external unsupported drive or Sec V for adding an internal drive.
> 
> You cannot plug that drive into the external ESATA port and have it work. You will get the message that it is unsupported and cannot proceed. You have to follow the installation procedure for an unsupported drive.


It's an unmodified Tivo HD and I had the Tivo and eSATA powered off, made the connection and powered the eSATA drive on and then Tivo HD after letting the eSATA power up. _Section IV - 7_

Tivo saw the external drive and prompted me to configure it. Once I attempted to configure it I received the message about it being unsupported.

Are you saying that I need to run the WinMFS tool on the unmodified Tivo drive and eSATA drive as listed in Section IV - 10 (#10. What is the method to add an eSATA drive if I previously upgraded my TiVo?)?

Sorry for all the questions, I thought I had followed the guide to purchase a safe enclosure and have a good chance of getting some extra storage until My DVR resurfaces or I can get a larger drive.


----------



## richsadams

zeke009 said:


> Are you saying that I need to run the WinMFS tool on the unmodified Tivo drive and eSATA drive as listed in Section IV - 10 (#10. What is the method to add an eSATA drive if I previously upgraded my TiVo?)?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions, I thought I had followed the guide to purchase a safe enclosure and have a good chance of getting some extra storage until My DVR resurfaces or I can get a larger drive.


Yes, the title is a bit confusing in that section but the method works with unmodified TiVo HD's as well. What you are doing is associating or "marrying" an unsupported external hard drive with the OEM TiVo hard drive. Since TiVo HD's only allow the WD My DVR Expander to be "married" via plug and play you have to go through a manual process to get any other external hard drive to work.

Again most people opt to simply replace the internal drive with a larger one since the TiVo hard drive has to be pulled anyway and put the original hard drive on the shelf as a backup. That would be my recommendation. It removes one additional failure point and is a much cleaner setup IMHO. Were it me I'd return the Vantec enclosure for credit, buy one of the 1TB drives recommended in the FAQ (<$90), use your original drive to image it (Section V, #22) and install it in your TiVo HD. It's almost the same amount of work as marrying an external drive and you'll have a whole lot more real estate for recordings and basically a brand new TiVo.


----------



## moxie1617

zeke009, what Rich said:up:. He always says it clearer and better than me.


----------



## lex3001

I have a general question about the recommended drives and what symptoms are of a non-compatible drive.

I upgraded using a Samsung 1.5 TB drive. I have not had any problems after the upgrade that I did not have before the upgrade. (Netflix streaming intermittently causes the TiVo to hang, requiring power off/on -- its happened 4 times in December, including before I upgraded the drive).

Here is my question:
Sometimes if the TiVo loses power (power outage) or gets hard rebooted (disconnected or powered back on after a hang), it WILL NOT BOOT (either hangs at first screen or at gray screen of death) until I use the WinMFS utility to restore the boot from backup. Then it boots back up fine (sometimes with a reboot in the process, sometimes not). My question is this: if I switch from the Samsung drive to one of the recommended drives, will the chances of the TiVo recovering all by itself after a hang or power outage be improved? If so, why? (In other words, will it be worth all the time, cost, and hassle of switching to another drive for these scenarios.) Again I'll note that I have never had an issue with the drive in regular use -- but after the power is pulled and after one of my Netflix hangs I have had to physically open the box and restore the boot using WinMFS to get my TiVo HD up and running again. That's pretty annoying, but better than getting a new TiVo ;-)


----------



## zeke009

richsadams said:


> Yes, the title is a bit confusing in that section but the method works with unmodified TiVo HD's as well. What you are doing is associating or "marrying" an unsupported external hard drive with the OEM TiVo hard drive. Since TiVo HD's only allow the WD My DVR Expander to be "married" via plug and play you have to go through a manual process to get any other external hard drive to work.
> 
> Again most people opt to simply replace the internal drive with a larger one since the TiVo hard drive has to be pulled anyway and put the original hard drive on the shelf as a backup. That would be my recommendation. It removes one additional failure point and is a much cleaner setup IMHO. Were it me I'd return the Vantec enclosure for credit, buy one of the 1TB drives recommended in the FAQ (<$90), use your original drive to image it (Section V, #22) and install it in your TiVo HD. It's almost the same amount of work as marrying an external drive and you'll have a whole lot more real estate for recordings and basically a brand new TiVo.





moxie1617 said:


> zeke009, what Rich said:up:. He always says it clearer and better than me.


Thank you for the help guys. I'm not sure if I want to risk voiding the warranty with an upgraded internal drive, mostly because I can't afford to replace the unit should it fail mechanically or through my own doing.

Amazingly I managed to find a 1TB WD My DVR Expander online. While the cost is a bit more than buying a bare drive, it might be my safer option for the time being.

Again, *thank you* for your time and patience with all my questions!


----------



## richsadams

lex3001 said:


> I have a general question about the recommended drives and what symptoms are of a non-compatible drive.


Hmmm... that sounds pretty frustrating. IMO if you are seeing the same issues w/Netflix before and after the upgrade, then it most likely doesn't have anything to do with the hard drive.

That said I tried upgrading our TiVo HD with a Sammy 1TB Spinpoint last year and could never get past the gray screen you mention. I have no idea why because others have used the same drive since and have apparently been fine with it. I put the Sammy in an external USB drive enclosure and am using it as a backup drive for a computer now and it works fine. No matter how I imaged it (basic backup, w/recordings, etc.) it would just never boot up properly.

So I don't think you have anything to lose going with a recommended drive at this point (I'm really liking the Hitachi 31000 IDK/7K ...tune the AAM to 128 to make it a little more quiet). But I don't think it will cure the Netflix problem (sounds more like a network issue to me) but you never know.


----------



## richsadams

moxie1617 said:


> zeke009, what Rich said:up:. He always says it clearer and better than me.


Ah shucks...<kicking instep>


----------



## pl1

richsadams said:


> Yep, sounds like there was a little data corruption which TiVo was able to resolve so things should be fine. As you say, worst case you can always start fresh with IC. Enjoy!


Update. Like you, Spike also assured me I was fine since a truncated backup reverts to the original size.

So, I just copied my original 160g to a new 1000g WD drive and expanded it successfully. The WD drive had an Oct 09 date, so I ran the idle disabler just in case. The first boot up went perfectly smooth.

This is getting so easy I can practically do an upgrade with my eyes closed.  And, it really seems to me that if a person is capable enough to upgrade their drive, they should have no problem running the idle disabler. Meaning, I think these WD drives should be included in the list more prominently with a disclaimer. Mostly because they are WHISPER quiet. But, hey, that's just me.


----------



## richsadams

pl1 said:


> Update. Like you, Spike also assured me I was fine since a truncated backup reverts to the original size.
> 
> So, I just copied my original 160g to a new 1000g WD drive and expanded it successfully. The WD drive had an Oct 09 date, so I ran the idle disabler just in case. The first boot up went perfectly smooth.


Nice...enjoy!!


----------



## Phasers

So I have an Original Series 3 (Not Tivo HD Series 3) that I installed a 750GB Drive in a few years back. I want to expand to a 1.5 (1.35 usable) drive.

Unfortunately I have two problems
1) I don't want to lose all my recordings
2) I do NOT have my original 250GB Series 3 drive anymore

Does anyone have any suggestions? Or can someone point me to where i can get an original image? Is it possible to upgrade and expand from my copied drive using WinMFS?

Thx in advance


----------



## pl1

Phasers said:


> So I have an Original Series 3 (Not Tivo HD Series 3) that I installed a 750GB Drive in a few years back. I want to expand to a 1.5 (1.35 usable) drive.
> 
> Unfortunately I have two problems
> 1) I don't want to lose all my recordings
> 2) I do NOT have my original 250GB Series 3 drive anymore
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions? Or can someone point me to where i can get an original image? Is it possible to upgrade and expand from my copied drive using WinMFS?


I don't think you will have any problem with going up to 1t if you want to copy and expand. The problem, where you need an original image, is when you go over 1t. One way (I figured out in a way) that I think works is to do a truncated backup. This will give you an original 250g image. Yes, you lose your recordings. From this image, you should be able to go over the 1t limit. You might have to ask Spike about this to confirm. http://mfslive.org/forums/index.php There is something in the manual that says you can not go over 1t with an already expanded drive. So, the question is, can you use a truncated backup?

Of course, "losing" your recordings is not quite what is happening. You can still use the old drive to watch what is on it.


----------



## lex3001

richsadams said:


> Hmmm... that sounds pretty frustrating. IMO if you are seeing the same issues w/Netflix before and after the upgrade, then it most likely doesn't have anything to do with the hard drive.
> 
> That said I tried upgrading our TiVo HD with a Sammy 1TB Spinpoint last year and could never get past the gray screen you mention. I have no idea why because others have used the same drive since and have apparently been fine with it. I put the Sammy in an external USB drive enclosure and am using it as a backup drive for a computer now and it works fine. No matter how I imaged it (basic backup, w/recordings, etc.) it would just never boot up properly.
> 
> So I don't think you have anything to lose going with a recommended drive at this point (I'm really liking the Hitachi 31000 IDK/7K ...tune the AAM to 128 to make it a little more quiet). But I don't think it will cure the Netflix problem (sounds more like a network issue to me) but you never know.


I don't think the drive will cure the Netflix problem. But what I am wondering if the drive might cure the problem of needing to restore the boot sector after a power outage or a hang. I can live with the Netflix problem is the TiVo always boots up afterwards. I wonder if this drive does too much buffering, particular in the boot sector area? I also couldn't get the drive to work the first time I did the imaging, but then it did work after I was sure to "Remove Hardware" properly from Windows after the imaging but before disconnecting it. Perhaps it has a similar issue when the drive is powered off unexpectedly. For the Hitachi, do you if I can tune it if it is plugged in via a USB external case? I don't own a desktop anymore, and some of the HD tools only work if the drive is detected over a real SATA connection (like the Samsung tools).


----------



## richsadams

lex3001 said:


> I wonder if this drive does too much buffering, particular in the boot sector area? I also couldn't get the drive to work the first time I did the imaging, but then it did work after I was sure to "Remove Hardware" properly from Windows after the imaging but before disconnecting it. Perhaps it has a similar issue when the drive is powered off unexpectedly.


That's an interesting theory. I never thought of that. Although I don't think it's a buffer problem it may have something to do with how it is powered down (and back up). Since it's a "green" drive some of the same technology might be in place as Western Digital is employing in their newer GP hard drives. Their Intellipark "feature" prevents their drives from booting up from a menu restart and has to be disabled to work.



lex3001 said:


> For the Hitachi, do you if I can tune it if it is plugged in via a USB external case? I don't own a desktop anymore, and some of the HD tools only work if the drive is detected over a real SATA connection (like the Samsung tools).


I'm not sure about that one. It seems like it should work but I can't say for sure.


----------



## reubanks

I received an email from B&H Photo Video saying that the 1TB My DVR Expander was back in stock. I checked and YES! $129!

Amazon and JR also have them back in stock at $129.

Oh well, I like the way I have things now, but it's cool to know that they are available again.

Randy


----------



## daverx7

I had the Fantom GreenDrive 1TB (GB1000EU) working with my TivoHD for year and 4 months, but started to have problems about 1yr 2months.

Early symptoms that something was up was random reboots of the TivoHD and sometimes needed to be unplugged and replugged to get going all the way. This happened for a few weeks, but today I heard the external drive clicking very badly and the TivoHD would never get beyond Tivo Powering Up... I tried turning off and back on and changing cables... of course this did not help as it has nothing to do with a hardware clicking noise.... But did it anyway to anticipate support telling me to do this. 

I am submitting a support request hoping for a warranty replacement, but in the mean time I am going to buy another drive to take its place.

I just wanted to share this as a data point.

Thanks,

-Dave


----------



## jlib

Oh, too bad. A clicking sound from the HD is pretty much fatal. Fantom has an unusual 2 year warranty. That doesn't help your lost shows, though.


----------



## jlib

pl1 said:


> ...it really seems to me that if a person is capable enough to upgrade their drive, they should have no problem running the idle disabler. Meaning, I think these WD drives should be included in the list more prominently with a disclaimer. Mostly because they are WHISPER quiet. But, hey, that's just me.


Except when someone has a laptop and then wonders why why a DOS boot disk like the one for disabling Intellipark aren't seeing drives that are connected to a USB-to-SATA adapter that were perfectly recognized by WinMFS. That is a way more complicated issue that upgrading your TiVo step by step with WinMFS. The vast majority of computer users will draw a blank if you mention DOS.


----------



## daverx7

jlib said:


> Oh, too bad. A clicking sound from the HD is pretty much fatal. Fantom has an unusual 2 year warranty. That doesn't help your lost shows, though.


Yeah, I will see how they handle this support request, but in the meantime, I have ordered an exact external drive from newegg. That way I can get the TivoHD back to its 2TB capacity and in a known working configuration.

I unplugged the drive from the TivoHD and did the process (three thumbs down and enter) to disassociate the external drive and is taking a very long time. I'll let it go overnight before I unplug and replug it.

Wish me luck.

-Dave


----------



## richsadams

jlib said:


> Except when someone has a laptop and then wonders why why a DOS boot disk like the one for disabling Intellipark aren't seeing drives that are connected to a USB-to-SATA adapter that were perfectly recognized by WinMFS. That is a way more complicated issue that upgrading your TiVo step by step with WinMFS. The vast majority of computer users will draw a blank if you mention DOS.


Soooo...what is this "DOS" that you speak of?


----------



## richsadams

daverx7 said:


> I unplugged the drive from the TivoHD and did the process (three thumbs down and enter) to disassociate the external drive and is taking a very long time. I'll let it go overnight before I unplug and replug it.
> 
> Wish me luck.
> 
> -Dave


Sorry to hear about your loss. These things happen I guess. It's not encouraging to hear that the Fantom drive didn't last much or any longer than the 500GB WD My DVR Expanders. In your case it's obvious that it's actually the hard drive that went south though.

IIRC the "housecleaning" can take a while when an eSATA drive is disconnected, particularly a 1TB.

Thanks for the valuable feedback. Hopefully yours will be an isolated case. Best of luck!


----------



## cjv2

richsadams said:


> Soooo...what is this "DOS" that you speak of?


*Utters arcane incantations*

PUFF OF SMOKE

C:\>

*small children run and hide*

PUFF OF SMOKE

*Laverne & Shirley reruns fill your Tivo*

PUFF OF SMOKE

*random forum poster turns into a Rubik's Cube*

Ok I'll stop


----------



## MrMike1876

Hi All,

I just completed the procedure that was listed in this forum to Marry my Upgraded 750GB Tivo Drive with the Tivo Verified 1 TB DVR Expander. I followed all instructions carefully and after reconnecting my Tivo - everything seemed to be working fine. All my programs are still there. The Tivo recognizes the external drive now. All my settings look correct. I try to manually connect to the tivo service - no luck because as its preparing it re-boots. I let it reboot - and its normal for a few minutes and without fail - the Tivo restarts and powerups again. And this keeps happening. Is there a solution to this problem?

I am sorry if this situation was answered - but I can't seem to find an answer to help me solve this issue. 

I would appreciate any advice you can offer to help me resolve this problem.

Just some facts - I have a Seagate 750 GB HD inside my TIVO Series 3 HD DVR (the older model with the display and time on it) and I did the MFS Add procedure to marry my new Western Digital Tivo Verified 1 TB DVR Expander. 

Thanks,
Michael


----------



## pl1

jlib said:


> Except when someone has a laptop and then wonders why why a DOS boot disk like the one for disabling Intellipark aren't seeing drives that are connected to a USB-to-SATA adapter that were perfectly recognized by WinMFS. That is a way more complicated issue that upgrading your TiVo step by step with WinMFS. The vast majority of computer users will draw a blank if you mention DOS.


What would be even more excellent is if WinMFS had the capability to add the disabler as well.

But, all I'm saying, is that I think the WD drives should be a part of the acceptable drive list with all of the caveats, instead of in another paragraph where it might get skipped over.

Just my opinion.


----------



## richsadams

cjv2 said:


> Ok I'll stop


 Don't stop now...it was just getting good!


----------



## richsadams

MrMike1876 said:


> I just completed the procedure that was listed in this forum to Marry my Upgraded 750GB Tivo Drive with the Tivo Verified 1 TB DVR Expander. <snip>


Hi Michael. Sorry to hear about that. If TiVo is recognizing the drive (estimated recording hours are correct, etc.) it sounds like you did everything right. Did you attempt some recordings? How did that go?

It's possible that there's something wrong with your new drive...or that something just didn't "take" when you married it. (Perhaps a cubic zirconium diamond was discovered?) In any case, you'll probably need to start over again. I would try divorcing it and see if things return to normal. All of your original recordings should stay intact...but you'd lose any since connecting the drive. Be sure to follow the proper divorce procedure:

http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/getconnected/howto_add_recording_capacity.html

If TiVo behaves normally after the divorce I'd try to simply connect it again and see what happens. If the issue is still present I'd try the marriage process again. If it's still present after that I'd probably contact WD about a replacement. You can process the exchange on your own by going to the Western Digital Product Replacement site OR you can call Western Digital Customer Support at 1-800-ASK-WDC (275-4932) to have an agent process the exchange.

Curious...I guess it's good that you did, but what compelled you to force a connection?


----------



## lex3001

richsadams said:


> That's an interesting theory. I never thought of that. Although I don't think it's a buffer problem it may have something to do with how it is powered down (and back up). Since it's a "green" drive some of the same technology might be in place as Western Digital is employing in their newer GP hard drives. Their Intellipark "feature" prevents their drives from booting up from a menu restart and has to be disabled to work.


More research on my Samsung. It has a "low power" or "power save mode" feature where it has different levels of standby mode etc where the drive may be unresponsive immediately or even go to sleep until the computer (?) wakes it up. I don't quite understand the mechanism here, but I am guessing this is the problem when the TiVo not booting after a cold start without using the drive in a computer first (maybe restoring the boot sector is not required -- maybe just using it from a computer?). See this for more detail: http://www.samsung.com/global/busin...ers/LearningResource_LowPowerConsumption.html

Unfortunately there does not appear to be any utility to turn off or configure this mode. I have a call to Samsung and was told to expect a call back. But I am getting close to giving up on the HD154UI and getting a recommended drive. That'll teach me.


----------



## kcfun

I have read all of the posts here and still can't figure out what to do next. I have a TIVO HD that I replaced the stock drive with a WD WD10EADS green drive with the intellipark disabled. At the same time I also added (married) another WD10EADS as an external drive.

Everything seemed to work fine for a couple of days but then I started to get a few reboots on the TIVO. I thought it was the external drive so I unmarried that drive, but still had the reboots. The last couple of days the reboots became more frequent. I took the external drive reimaged it and installed that as my primary drive, but I still get reboots and picture freezes. 

I ran the WD Lifeguard tool against both drives and it passed all tests. I have an M-Card and TA installed but have since disconnect the TA but the TIVO still reboots.

Is it possible that my TIVO just doesn't like the WD drive and should I get another brand of hard drive?


----------



## richsadams

lex3001 said:


> More research on my Samsung. It has a "low power" or "power save mode" feature where it has different levels of standby mode etc where the drive may be unresponsive immediately or even go to sleep until the computer (?) wakes it up. I don't quite understand the mechanism here, but I am guessing this is the problem when the TiVo not booting after a cold start without using the drive in a computer first (maybe restoring the boot sector is not required -- maybe just using it from a computer?). See this for more detail: http://www.samsung.com/global/busin...ers/LearningResource_LowPowerConsumption.html
> 
> Unfortunately there does not appear to be any utility to turn off or configure this mode. I have a call to Samsung and was told to expect a call back. But I am getting close to giving up on the HD154UI and getting a recommended drive. That'll teach me.


Thanks for that...good info. :up: I get all of the power cycles, trying to reduce power consumption or fully spin down the drive during periods of inactivity, makes perfect sense. Of course for our needs there's no advantage since TiVo's are recording 24/7. What I don't understand is why it won't boot up initially. After all TiVo is basically a computer, and I can understand the "standby" issues on a soft/menu reboot, but I'm confused as to why an initial boot up would be a problem. Plus, in the case of the 1TB Sammy I tried, (like your 1.5TB) why it didn't boot up at all, but some other's did...yet mine works fine as a backup drive. There's certainly something there and it seems logical it has something to do with the power-saving features, but I'm at a loss as to what the culprit is exactly.


----------



## richsadams

kcfun said:


> I have read all of the posts here and still can't figure out what to do next. I have a TIVO HD that I replaced the stock drive with a WD WD10EADS green drive with the intellipark disabled. At the same time I also added (married) another WD10EADS as an external drive.
> 
> Everything seemed to work fine for a couple of days but then I started to get a few reboots on the TIVO. I thought it was the external drive so I unmarried that drive, but still had the reboots. The last couple of days the reboots became more frequent. I took the external drive reimaged it and installed that as my primary drive, but I still get reboots and picture freezes.
> 
> I ran the WD Lifeguard tool against both drives and it passed all tests. I have an M-Card and TA installed but have since disconnect the TA but the TIVO still reboots.
> 
> Is it possible that my TIVO just doesn't like the WD drive and should I get another brand of hard drive?


That is curious. I suppose it's remotely possible that there is something about both drives that might be giving TiVo some heartburn. Were they both manufactured on the same date...and do the various specs on the drive label match?

The next thing I'd try is to reinstall the original hard drive and let it run for a while and see what happens.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

reubanks said:


> I received an email from B&H Photo Video saying that the 1TB My DVR Expander was back in stock. I checked and YES! $129!
> 
> Amazon and JR also have them back in stock at $129.


The "positive spin" here is that perhaps TiVo and WD finally did some failure analysis and have now released a "stealth upgrade" new product that will be more reliable.

Yeah, I know, not likely, but still ...


----------



## daveak

richsadams said:


> Soooo...what is this "DOS" that you speak of?


DOS Boot, I saw that movie.


----------



## MrMike1876

richsadams said:


> Hi Michael. Sorry to hear about that. If TiVo is recognizing the drive (estimated recording hours are correct, etc.) it sounds like you did everything right. Did you attempt some recordings? How did that go?
> 
> It's possible that there's something wrong with your new drive...or that something just didn't "take" when you married it. (Perhaps a cubic zirconium diamond was discovered?) In any case, you'll probably need to start over again. I would try divorcing it and see if things return to normal. All of your original recordings should stay intact...but you'd lose any since connecting the drive. Be sure to follow the proper divorce procedure:
> 
> http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/getconnected/howto_add_recording_capacity.html
> 
> If TiVo behaves normally after the divorce I'd try to simply connect it again and see what happens. If the issue is still present I'd try the marriage process again. If it's still present after that I'd probably contact WD about a replacement. You can process the exchange on your own by going to the Western Digital Product Replacement site OR you can call Western Digital Customer Support at 1-800-ASK-WDC (275-4932) to have an agent process the exchange.
> 
> Curious...I guess it's good that you did, but what compelled you to force a connection?


Thank you for the advice. I will try that to see if there is an issue. I tried the diagnostic Kickstart 54 test to see if there was an issue with the drives - and they seemed to pass those test.

I will try and see if this endless restart happens after I disconnect the External Hard Drive.

I guess I will have to redo the Marry process. To be sure.

To answer your question - i was checking all the settings to see if it connected to the tivo service - and it said it failed...i initially connected the adapter incorrectly.

-mike


----------



## cjv2

richsadams said:


> Don't stop now...it was just getting good!


*utters arcane incantations*

PUFF OF SMOKE

Look, Flight Simulator, on green screen, on 2 5.25" floppy drives!

PUFF OF SMOKE

Zork III, you say?

PUFF OF SMOKE

some guy at IBM says to some guy not from IBM: "Why would we want to buy your operating system for our hardware? Go ahead, sell it yourselves and see what happens. Good luck with that."

PUFF OF SMOKE

*wanders off...*


----------



## richsadams

cjv2 said:


> *utters arcane incantations*
> 
> PUFF OF SMOKE
> 
> Look, Flight Simulator, on green screen, on 2 5.25" floppy drives!
> 
> PUFF OF SMOKE
> 
> Zork III, you say?
> 
> PUFF OF SMOKE
> 
> some guy at IBM says to some guy not from IBM: "Why would we want to buy your operating system for our hardware? Go ahead, sell it yourselves and see what happens. Good luck with that."
> 
> PUFF OF SMOKE
> 
> *wanders off...*


ROFLMAO


----------



## reubanks

cjv2 said:


> *utters arcane incantations*
> 
> PUFF OF SMOKE
> 
> Look, Flight Simulator, on green screen, on 2 5.25" floppy drives!
> 
> PUFF OF SMOKE
> 
> Zork III, you say?
> 
> PUFF OF SMOKE
> 
> some guy at IBM says to some guy not from IBM: "Why would we want to buy your operating system for our hardware? Go ahead, sell it yourselves and see what happens. Good luck with that."
> 
> PUFF OF SMOKE
> 
> *wanders off...*


So, was the arcane incantation PLUGH or XYZZY?

Randy


----------



## cjv2

reubanks said:


> So, was the arcane incantation PLUGH or XYZZY?
> 
> Randy


It was something like:

10 INPUT X
20 PRINT$ "PUFF OF SMOKE"
30 FOR I = 1 to X
40 classified
50 classified
60 classified
70 classified
80 PRINT$ "PUFF OF SMOKE"
90 NEXT I
100 PRINT$ "*wanders off...* "
110 END

*hides small stack of vintage software*


----------



## S3-2501

c:\DOS
C:\DOS\RUN\
RUN\DOS\RUN


An oldie but a goodie


----------



## cjv2

S3-2501 said:


> c:\DOS
> C:\DOS\RUN\
> RUN\DOS\RUN
> 
> An oldie but a goodie


Hehe, I like that one


----------



## Defender90

abeln2672 said:


> Just wanted to first THANK the creators/contributors of this thread and report that I just installed a 1TB SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ in my Tivo HD. I can't believe how easy it was just by following the guide:
> 
> 1) Shopped carefully for 1tb drives and settled on the Samsung because of a great deal on Newegg (came bundled with a dock for $76).
> 
> 2) Bought an additional SATA>USB adapter (I'm using a laptop and needed to have both the old and new drives connected during upgrade in order to transfer my recordings).
> 
> 3) Installed winMFS.
> 
> 4) Followed the guide here to remove old drive, connect both to the computer, copy everything over, and install the new drive. Plugged everything back in and, voila, working like a charm with 157 hours of HD recording time!
> 
> Anyway, it's only been a few hours, but so far so good! Thanks again everyone...this thread is gold!





bkdtv said:


> Please keep us informed how that Samsung F3 works for you.
> 
> Some older Samsung models (F1?) exhibited reliability issues with TiVos, but we haven't seen many reports on newer drives like the F3. That could be another alternative to the Hitachis and Seagates.


Wanted to put my two cents. After questioning my manhood because of my intention to add eSata to my S3, I opted to hunker down and do the internal drive upgrade. I was very close to upgrading internal and adding external at the same time but chickened out at the last minute. My wife was breathing down my neck since we were out of space and I was told in no uncertain terms what would happen if she had to watch another low-def American Idol.

So I followed the directions, all worked perfectly and it all made sense once I went through it. I used the Samsung F3 HD103SJ. For the copying of the drives, I purchased a dual dock (Kingwin EZ-Dock2 Model#EZD2536). Worked fine, but I have no experience with this so I don't have anything to compare it to. It only came with the required power and USB hookup.

I did the AAM noise reduction as well. It's only been a few hours, but so far everything is perfect and the machine is very quiet.

A few comments/requests based on my personal experience. A lot of this stuff is probably available if you read every post, but if someone jumps directly to the instructions, they may not have all the info.

1. Should highlight that drive copy time will be in the 4-5 hour range. I know this might be a "duh" for experienced people, but based on the quoted time on the directions, I didn't even think about it since I've never copied a hard drive--thought it happened quicker. I ended up having to get up early to finish and put it all together before the kids missed their Mickey Mouse.

2. AAM reduction worked easily. I did this first, before anything else. Since that FAQ is in a different place, you may want to post the note that Windows will not "see" the external drive attached, but HDDScan will. As a novice, I kept wondering why it wasn't being seen, and after rebooting a few times finally just tried it and there it was. I honestly wondered if I needed to format or something.

3. May want to highlight why the magnetic tip Torx are helpful. I had a hard time finding them, so bought some Stanley that were not magnetic. I didn't realize how valuable it would have been for the 4 drive dock screws because they were hard to reach.

4. I was confused on the truncated backup why it wasn't copying. In my case, I just needed to provide a file name. Again, I know for most this is a "duh", but I kept wondering if something was wrong. Also might be helpful to know the rough size of the file (mine was 287mb) and duration (about 5 minutes).

I know these are picky, but I am a perfect example of probably a lot of novices out there. Overall, this forum was awesome...I have a few more questions I'll post later. Will let you know if I ever have problems with the Sammy, and if others out there use this drive please let us all know.

D90


----------



## richsadams

Defender90 said:


> Wanted to put my two cents. <snip>


Very nice report and some good suggestions. :up: I think the only challenge would be posting a standard time for those copying recordings. The connection will have a big impact (SATA Vs eSATA Vs USB) as well as the content...a full drive, partial, etc. Other than that, good stuff!

Enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## lex3001

richsadams said:


> Thanks for that...good info. :up: I get all of the power cycles, trying to reduce power consumption or fully spin down the drive during periods of inactivity, makes perfect sense. Of course for our needs there's no advantage since TiVo's are recording 24/7. What I don't understand is why it won't boot up initially. After all TiVo is basically a computer, and I can understand the "standby" issues on a soft/menu reboot, but I'm confused as to why an initial boot up would be a problem. Plus, in the case of the 1TB Sammy I tried, (like your 1.5TB) why it didn't boot up at all, but some other's did...yet mine works fine as a backup drive. There's certainly something there and it seems logical it has something to do with the power-saving features, but I'm at a loss as to what the culprit is exactly.


I've got a call into Samsung tech support to see if they can provide me a utility to tweak the settings. From my initial two calls, it doesn't look promising. Now, trying to decide which 1.5TB drive to replace it with and my Sammy will become my NAS drive on my PogoPlug. Seems like the 1.5TB choices are either noisy or have power saving features. Maybe I should go the WD route and use the utility to turn off the power save?


----------



## lex3001

Defender90 said:


> Wanted to put my two cents.
> ...
> I used the Samsung F3 HD103SJ.
> ...
> Will let you know if I ever have problems with the Sammy, and if others out there use this drive please let us all know.


My drive (HD154UI) has similar features including power saving mode. Mine also worked great at first, however I have found an alarmingly annoying problem. Whenever the TiVo loses power -- either because their horrible Netflix player caused to hang and I had to unplug it, or when we have a power outage, it will not boot back up properly more than 75% of the time. Hangs in the first screen or goes to a blank gray screen and hangs.

I have found a workaround is to plug the drive back into an external USB case and restore the boot+kernal using WinMFS. I suspect that restoring only the boot might be necessary -- or perhaps simply plugging it in and using it may be necessary (to get it out of some weird power saving mode perhaps). Then TiVo boots fine again.

So, I suggest you test it out -- unplug your TiVO, wait 30 seconds, and plug it back in. See if it boots. Try this a few times. Better to know now than right before the season finale of Lost is about to start. Lemme know what you find out.


----------



## richsadams

lex3001 said:


> I've got a call into Samsung tech support to see if they can provide me a utility to tweak the settings. From my initial two calls, it doesn't look promising. Now, trying to decide which 1.5TB drive to replace it with and my Sammy will become my NAS drive on my PogoPlug. Seems like the 1.5TB choices are either noisy or have power saving features. Maybe I should go the WD route and use the utility to turn off the power save?


I'd go with the WD or a Hitachi (HD31000 IDK/7K) and leave the Sammy in the NAS. :up:


----------



## richsadams

lex3001 said:


> ...or when we have a power outage, it will not boot back up properly more than 75% of the time.


  A UPS is a MUST! Power outages/failures/spikes are the #1 culprit when it comes to data corruption and hard drive failure. A UPS can be really cheap insurance.


----------



## daverx7

richsadams said:


> Sorry to hear about your loss. These things happen I guess. It's not encouraging to hear that the Fantom drive didn't last much or any longer than the 500GB WD My DVR Expanders. In your case it's obvious that it's actually the hard drive that went south though.


This can happen to any hard drive in any particular environment. Yeah, I am bummed that it happened, but it is not enough to scare me off of trying the drive again. Now if it happens again with the new exact model drive that I just ordered from Newegg, I will let you guys know and try something else.



richsadams said:


> IIRC the "housecleaning" can take a while when an eSATA drive is disconnected, particularly a 1TB.


Well... I did check back about 24 hours later and the TivoHD was back to life. I didn't look to see what I was able to keep with the internal 1TB drive. It will be interesting to see what survived.



richsadams said:


> Thanks for the valuable feedback. Hopefully yours will be an isolated case. Best of luck!


Happy to do so... and I will report back on how they handled my warranty claim as well (still no reply yet).

-Dave


----------



## Jaze

I feel a little foolish adding this to a thread where guys are constantly ripping open their Tivo's and jamming huge new drives into them, but I don't know where else to post it.

My Tivo Series 3 with My DVR Expander eSATA external drive has recently begun to have problems. It has begun rebooting increasingly frequently, and now, once the reboot has finished, has begun to flash the "External Media Missing" alert. 

I figured that there'd be a sticky in this area telling me step by step what I should do to diagnose and remedy the problem, but can't find it. Does anyone know where I could find something like that? I bet it's a pretty common problem.

I'm worried that my external HD is ready for a dirt nap.


----------



## rocko

Jaze said:


> I feel a little foolish adding this to a thread where guys are constantly ripping open their Tivo's and jamming huge new drives into them, but I don't know where else to post it.
> 
> My Tivo Series 3 with My DVR Expander eSATA external drive has recently begun to have problems. It has begun rebooting increasingly frequently, and now, once the reboot has finished, has begun to flash the "External Media Missing" alert.
> 
> I figured that there'd be a sticky in this area telling me step by step what I should do to diagnose and remedy the problem, but can't find it. Does anyone know where I could find something like that? I bet it's a pretty common problem.
> 
> I'm worried that my external HD is ready for a dirt nap.


I concur with your diagnosis. There's not a lot you can do. Try to save any recordings to a PC with TiVo Desktop or a similar tool and divorce the external drive. Consider an internal upgrade.


----------



## richsadams

Jaze said:


> My Tivo Series 3 with My DVR Expander eSATA external drive has recently begun to have problems. It has begun rebooting increasingly frequently, and now, once the reboot has finished, has begun to flash the "External Media Missing" alert.


Oh come on...man up and rip that box open! Kidding.  A very basic first step is to just reboot everything...

- Unplug your TiVo from the power source
- Turn off your external hard drive and let it spin down (give it about 15 seconds)
- Check to be sure the eSATA cable is secure/snug at the drive and TiVo end
- Turn your external hard drive back on and let it spin up (10 seconds or so)
- Plug your TiVo back in
- See how it goes

Often times just rebooting will do the trick. However if that doesn't do it, have a look at one of my earlier posts and see if it helps:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7553444#post7553444

You can also try running some of TiVo's built in diagnostic and repair programs called Kickstarts. More here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

KS54 will check both drives for errors. It's not infallible but can often find some issues. KS57 and KS58 are designed to hunt down and fix minor problems. Anything beyond that requires...yes...opening something.

If that doesn't do it go ahead and post some more info and some of the brilliant minds that haunt this thread will certainly offer some assistance. I can't promise someone won't kick sand at you as they walk by, but they're usually pretty good folks. 

Best of luck!


----------



## lex3001

richsadams said:


> A UPS is a MUST! Power outages/failures/spikes are the #1 culprit when it comes to data corruption and hard drive failure.  A UPS can be really cheap insurance.


A UPS will not outlast most of our power outages, and won't help with the need to cold boot after the TiVo crashes during Netflix viewing, which is the problem we usually have.


----------



## lex3001

richsadams said:


> I'd go with the WD or a Hitachi (HD31000 IDK/7K) and leave the Sammy in the NAS. :up:


Do you have specific model # recommendations? My requirements:
- 1.5 TB
- Quiet
- TiVo compatible for sure

I don't mind running a utility to modify the firmware if its available and will work. The list of supported hard drives in the FAQ mentions several 1.5 TB drives but says they are all noisy. Grr. Central Computer has one of the models (Seagate) on sale right now for under $110, and I was thinking of driving over to SF to buy it today, but it's probably noisier than I would like.
Thanks!


----------



## lex3001

lex3001 said:


> Do you have specific model # recommendations? My requirements:
> - 1.5 TB
> - Quiet
> - TiVo compatible for sure
> 
> I don't mind running a utility to modify the firmware if its available and will work. The list of supported hard drives in the FAQ mentions several 1.5 TB drives but says they are all noisy. Grr. Central Computer has one of the models (Seagate) on sale right now for under $110, and I was thinking of driving over to SF to buy it today, but it's probably noisier than I would like.
> Thanks!


FYI Here are some models to consider:
Noisy but listed on the FAQ:
http://www.centralcomputers.com/com...-1-5tb-sata300--st31500341as-drisea31501s.htm

Not sure:
http://www.centralcomputers.com/com...tb-sata-3gbps-64mb--wd15ears-driwd-15ears.htm

And these, not sure which would work:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...&N=2010150014 103530090 1035324341&name=1.5TB


----------



## Jaze

Thanks, lads. So far, no luck.

I tried a new cable, and it looked like it had worked. Then, an hour or two later, it crashed again, the TiVo rebooted to No External Media Detected; when this began to happen a few days ago, it rebooted to the usual home screen, now it seems to almost always reboot to the External Storage Missing.

I can't get the Kickstarts to work because, if I hold pause during the initial reboot, it flashed the amber light for perhaps two seconds before proceeding with the "Just a few minutes more" message.

At the moment, it seems to be able to handle one thing - playback or live viewing, but if I try to record, it seems to reboot.

I think the writing's on the wall...


----------



## rocko

lex3001 said:


> FYI Here are some models to consider:
> Noisy but listed on the FAQ:
> http://www.centralcomputers.com/com...-1-5tb-sata300--st31500341as-drisea31501s.htm
> 
> Not sure:
> http://www.centralcomputers.com/com...tb-sata-3gbps-64mb--wd15ears-driwd-15ears.htm
> 
> And these, not sure which would work:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...&N=2010150014 103530090 1035324341&name=1.5TB


Whichever you choose, you won't be able use the whole 1.5TB utilizing the current tools (WinMFS ...). I think the max is the original size plus 1TiB. You can purchase a custom made DIY-ready job on eBay, however. Going that route you may just consider the 2.0TB model but it all depends on your budget ...


----------



## sjmyst

sjmyst said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a Series 3 that has a 1tb internal disk that is failing (pauses, glitches, the usual disk failing symtoms). The 1tb disk was expanded from the original internal disk. I've purchased a 1.5tb disk that I'd like to use as the replacement internal disk. From the reading, it seems I can use up to 1.35 of this disk. But, there seems to be a limitation that in order to use 1.35tb (instead of 1.1tb), I have to upgrade from my original non-expanded 250gb disk using WinMFS. Is there any way to keep what I can of the recordings from the failing 1tb disk and use 1.35tb of my new 1.5tb disk (perhaps, a tool that just copies my recordings from my 1tb disk to the 1.5tb disk after it's been set up to use 1.35tb)?
> 
> Also, I'm still looking, but right now I can't seem to locate my original 250gb disk. If it turns out I can't find that disk. Am I stuck with only using 1.1tb instead of 1.35tb of my new 1.5tb disk (every little bit helps)?
> 
> I saw the following post that kind of implied that an upgrade from a 1tb to the 1.35tb could be done. I can't post a link to the thread. But, the post number was 7493341 for those that know the url. In the post mmmesq said "...and it bumped my HD hours from 142 to 198" on his S3. I've got the same disk as mmmesq, so it seems mmmesq somehow upgraded from a 1tb disk (my 1tb currently says it has 143tb HD hours) to using 1.35tb of a 1.5tb disk. But, I could be reading too much into the hours comment.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help.
> Steve


Well, here's an update in case someone else runs in to this. I went ahead and used my failing internal 1tb disk (Seagate Barracuda) to copy my recordings over to my 1.5tb disk (Seagate Barracuda ST315005N4A1AS-RK) using WinMFS 9.3f. I set the MfsSuperSize option to "yes". I selected MFSCopy from the menu. I selected my 1tb drive as my source and my 1.5tb drive as my destination and selected "Copy". I came back in the morning and there was a popup that asked if I wanted to expand my drive. I selected "Yes". I then got the popup that was hidden (I had to pull it up from the task bar) that warns me that I can't go above 1tb and asks if I want to limit the drive to 1tb. I answered 'Yes' like the FAQ said. And, that was it. I popped the drive back into my S3, and brought it up. The S3 now says I have 213 HD hours of recording time. It had said 142 HD hours before. Doing the math, it appears the S3 is using my full 1.5tb of space for recordings.

I guess I'll have to see how it runs. But, after a couple of hours, I don't see any problems.

Anybody have any comments why the S3 would say it's using all of the 1.5tb even though the FAQ says an S3 is limited to 1.35tb? Am I going to run into problems when the recordings get to the end of the disk (reboots?)?

As an internal drive, this 1.5 Seagate appears to be much quieter than my 1tb drive was (perhaps because that drive had problems all along?). If I stand 6 or 7 feet from the S3 with all sound muted on the TV, I really can't hear the 1.5tb drive. If I put my head up close to the S3, I can hear the drive working, so it's not completely quiet. But, I'm pretty happy with the level of sound (I've had many other drives that have been much louder).

Steve


----------



## bkdtv

sjmyst said:


> I popped the drive back into my S3, and brought it up. The S3 now says I have 213 HD hours of recording time. It had said 142 HD hours before. Doing the math, it appears the S3 is using my full 1.5tb of space for recordings.


A 1.0TB drive without MfsSupersize = 142-144 HD hours.
A 1.0TB drive with MfsSupersize = 157 HD hours.
A 1.35TB drive with MfsSupersize = 157 * 1.35 = 212-213 HD hours

Your drive is correctly limited to 1.35TB so it should work fine.


----------



## richsadams

lex3001 said:


> Do you have specific model # recommendations? My requirements:
> - 1.5 TB
> - Quiet
> - TiVo compatible for sure
> 
> I don't mind running a utility to modify the firmware if its available and will work. The list of supported hard drives in the FAQ mentions several 1.5 TB drives but says they are all noisy. Grr. Central Computer has one of the models (Seagate) on sale right now for under $110, and I was thinking of driving over to SF to buy it today, but it's probably noisier than I would like.
> Thanks!


I'd recommend the WD15EARS if you're comfortable dealing with the Intellipark "feature".

BTW, I'd stay away from the Seagate 1.5TB Pipeline model. I've returned three of them...one was DOA, one wouldn't format and the other had the "click of death". I didn't do my homework...there are hundreds of posts about problems with them.



lex3001 said:


> A UPS will not outlast most of our power outages, and won't help with the need to cold boot after the TiVo crashes during Netflix viewing, which is the problem we usually have.


There are a number of UPS options that will last hours if needed. It sounds like you have a very unstable power (and network?) source. Even if it's a long outage a UPS will protect your TiVo far better than any surge protector when it comes to fluctuations, spikes, brownouts, etc., some of which you may not even be aware of. A power conditioner will provide even better protection against data corruption or outright frying of the unit. Again, it's inexpensive insurance, but it's your TiVo of course.


----------



## CUtgr90

Got a quick question on Series 3 upgrades.. I have model TCD648250B that I upgraded a few years ago with a 1Tb drive. No problems with the drive but the HDMI port has gone south. Before sending it back I will extract my 1Tb drive and insert the original. When I get the replacement Tivo is there any issue with just replacing its internal drive with my existing 1Tb?


----------



## ThAbtO

WD's 'Advanced Format' Caviar Green HDD gets benchmarked, minor benefits found


----------



## pl1

CUtgr90 said:


> Got a quick question on Series 3 upgrades.. I have model TCD648250B that I upgraded a few years ago with a 1Tb drive. No problems with the drive but the HDMI port has gone south. Before sending it back I will extract my 1Tb drive and insert the original. When I get the replacement Tivo is there any issue with just replacing its internal drive with my existing 1Tb?


Yes, there are issues. First of all, since the drive came from a different unit, you will see a hardware error once you start up the unit. You must then "clear and delete". This also means that you will lose your cableCARD pairing info (if that is important). AAMOF, you will lose everything including all of your saved recordings.

EDIT: So, what I recommend you do is, set up your new machine the way you want it, including with cableCARDs if needed, and THEN copy it with WMFS to your 1tb drive. That way you have an original copy.


----------



## whitepelican

CUtgr90 said:


> Got a quick question on Series 3 upgrades.. I have model TCD648250B that I upgraded a few years ago with a 1Tb drive. No problems with the drive but the HDMI port has gone south. Before sending it back I will extract my 1Tb drive and insert the original. When I get the replacement Tivo is there any issue with just replacing its internal drive with my existing 1Tb?


For all that hassle and the price of getting a replacement (and losing all your recordings) I think I would just switch to the component video connection.


----------



## richsadams

whitepelican said:


> For all that hassle and the price of getting a replacement (and losing all your recordings) I think I would just switch to the component video connection.


+1 :up: There is little to no difference in PQ...although you would have to run a separate audio connection to your TV or receiver (good time to upgrade to optical/TOSlink?). Otherwise do what pl1 recommended.

BTW are you certain the HDMI connector on your TiVo is bad? That's very rare...not saying it couldn't happen but more often than not it's just a bad cable. Curious as to what it's doing (or not doing) exactly.


----------



## CUtgr90

Thanks for the quick responses.. It looks like the recommendation is to configure the new Tivo then use the standard upgrade process to utilize the 1Tb drive. I am not too concerned about the recordings on my existing 1Tb drive since I can transfer to a PC or my other Series 3. Just out of curiosity does WinMFS support the copy of recordings from my old 1Tb drive to the newly upgraded 1Tb drive?

As for my HDMI problem I am fairly certain that I have diagnosed it properly. I have a configuration where the Tivo is in a stereo cabinet across the room from the TV. I have a 40ft HDMI cable running under the floor in the crawl space. We had a power outage that killed the TV. After it was repaired there was no HDMI audio from Tivo. I have verified this with 2 different cables. In fact sometimes there is no video either. So to validate I pulled the Tivo out of the cabinet and connected directly to the TV with 6ft HDMI cable. The result was no video or audio regardless of the HDMI port used on the TV. I then took the Tivo to two other HD TVs in the house and was not able to get audio or video. Next I tested my second Series 3 with the 6ft and 40ft HDMI cables and this worked with no problems. So now I am using my second Tivo in the stereo cabinet and have the bad-HDMI Tivo in another room where component video is an option. I briefly considered running component video and optical audio but the cost of these cables in 40ft lengths plus the hassle of dealing with multiple crawl spaces make this less than desirable.

Once I determined that the HDMI port was the problem I called Tivo to check my options. Since the Tivo is less than 3 years old they have a $149 replacement fee with no transfer charge for my lifetime service. If I wait beyond the 3years it will cost me $149 plus $199 to transfer service. My experience with WinMFS has been very positive so I am not concerned with the hassle of upgrading the new machine. I just wanted to see if I could cut a few corners when configuring the new machine.

Thanks again for the replies..


----------



## pl1

CUtgr90 said:


> Just out of curiosity does WinMFS support the copy of recordings from my old 1Tb drive to the newly upgraded 1Tb drive?


WinMFS will only clone a disk or make a truncated backup with no video recordings, for the same TiVo box. But, if you change the hardware, clear and delete is your only option. Then you wipe all of the recordings out. I do not know of any utility that can copy just the recordings for you.


----------



## lex3001

Anyone gotten WDIDLE3 to work on a Dell E6400 laptop? I have the WD drive hooked up with eSATA. Tried IRRT and AHCI modes, both times it does not see any WD drive (but the BIOS sees it). ATA mode in the BIOS does not work either but it says that mode doesn't support eSATA anyway. The AHCI mode did see my Seagate laptop drive, but that was it.

Anyone got spare computer I can borrow tonight? ;-)


----------



## lex3001

rocko said:


> Whichever you choose, you won't be able use the whole 1.5TB utilizing the current tools (WinMFS ...). I think the max is the original size plus 1TiB. You can purchase a custom made DIY-ready job on eBay, however. Going that route you may just consider the 2.0TB model but it all depends on your budget ...


Yeah -- I've got 1.35TB utilized on the Samsung 1.5TB drive I am using now -- at least I am getting 180 hours of HD in the settings. Now I want to swtich to another HD, I'll just do a direct copy of the drive.


----------



## richsadams

CUtgr90 said:


> As for my HDMI problem I am fairly certain that I have diagnosed it properly.


Ah got it. Agreed, your diagnosis of the HDMI problem is almost certainly correct. $149 to get a "brand new" TiVo w/lifetime service is a good deal.


----------



## lex3001

lex3001 said:


> Anyone gotten WDIDLE3 to work on a Dell E6400 laptop? I have the WD drive hooked up with eSATA. Tried IRRT and AHCI modes, both times it does not see any WD drive (but the BIOS sees it). ATA mode in the BIOS does not work either but it says that mode doesn't support eSATA anyway. The AHCI mode did see my Seagate laptop drive, but that was it.
> 
> Anyone got spare computer I can borrow tonight? ;-)


Fortunately I was able to get WDIDLE3 to run on a desktop at my office with an eSATA port. This machine is a few years old but required I change the SATA configuration to IDE. Unfortunately no such setting on the newer Dell laptops... but now I should be ready to go with the new drive.

My plan:

Do a bit for bit copy of the existing Samsung 1.5TB drive in my TiVo to the new WD 1.5TB drive. Put in the new WD drive and test out that I can restart the TiVo with a soft restart (make sure WDIDLE3 worked), and make sure I can restart after a couple of hard reboots (make sure it fixes the problem I have with the Samsung EcoGreen drive -- which by the way does not have the problem if you put the TiVo in standby before unplugging it).

Anyone recommend the best tool to copy one drive to the other? WinMFS or just something like CloneZilla or dd?


----------



## cjv2

lex3001 said:


> My plan:
> 
> Do a bit for bit copy of the existing Samsung 1.5TB drive in my TiVo to the new WD 1.5TB drive. Put in the new WD drive and test out that I can restart the TiVo with a soft restart (make sure WDIDLE3 worked), and make sure I can restart after a couple of hard reboots (make sure it fixes the problem I have with the Samsung EcoGreen drive -- which by the way does not have the problem if you put the TiVo in standby before unplugging it).
> 
> Anyone recommend the best tool to copy one drive to the other? WinMFS or just something like CloneZilla or dd?


For what it's worth, in my first stab at upgrade I *tried* to use SelfImage to clone the original 160GB drive onto a 1TB WD, and then intended to use WinMFS to expand to use all the space on the new drive.

The image went as planned, and the copy was usable. But when I went to use WinMFS on the copy to expand the usable space, the expansion operation crashed WinMFS, jazzed up the partition table, and that was the end of that. I wound up taking a more traditional path (WinMFS truncated backup/restore) to get the 1TB up and running.

What was interesting about the exercise was this - on the 1TB drive, the partition boundaries from the successful clone did *not* match the partition boundaries on the successful truncated restore. That suggested to me that something about doing an image restore was behind the subsequent failure-to-expand. I never figured it out though.


----------



## GrayeDog

So, I've taken a few days break from trying(/failing) to upgrade my internal drive, thinking I'd gotten a bum WD10EARS from Newegg.

Was watching the Olympics yesterday and noticed that my TiVo started to freeze a little bit. The playback would stop, occasionally the DVR functionality would lag. Generally, I'd rewind, go forward, and it'd stop at the same point, but if I changed channels and went back, everything was fine. Now I'm starting to wonder if maybe the new drive is fine, but the current (stock) drive has a bed sector (or similar). Has anyone heard of this happening (whether it's the symptom or the cause) ?

It would go a long way to determining why WinMFS won't finish copying my current drive to the new drive.

I'm thinking of running the WD LifeGuard utility on the new drive and making sure it's a-ok (takes ~96 hours!), and if it is, just accepting the fact that I will lose all my recordings, and that I can always swap drives if I need to. Anyone have another thought, or agree with that?

Similarly, I have an old Series 2 lying around, that doesn't have service. Can I put my current TiVo HD drive into the Series 2 and use that to watch the rest of the recordings I have on there, until I don't need the old drive anymore? Or will TiVo balk at that?

Thanks everyone!


----------



## whitepelican

GrayeDog said:


> I'm thinking of running the WD LifeGuard utility on the new drive and making sure it's a-ok (takes ~96 hours!), and if it is, just accepting the fact that I will lose all my recordings, and that I can always swap drives if I need to. Anyone have another thought, or agree with that?


Have you tried just doing a truncated backup/restore with WinMFS to see if your new drive works OK without having to copy all of the recordings off the old one?



GrayeDog said:


> Similarly, I have an old Series 2 lying around, that doesn't have service. Can I put my current TiVo HD drive into the Series 2 and use that to watch the rest of the recordings I have on there, until I don't need the old drive anymore? Or will TiVo balk at that?


Balk, big time. It won't even boot. Even if you had another TivoHD to put the drive in it wouldn't work (it would boot, but you wouldn't be able to view the recordings).


----------



## richsadams

lex3001 said:


> Anyone recommend the best tool to copy one drive to the other? WinMFS or just something like CloneZilla or dd?


IIRC folks have successfully used dd to make a bit-for-bit copy. Best of luck and let us know how it goes!


----------



## lex3001

cjv2 said:


> For what it's worth, in my first stab at upgrade I *tried* to use SelfImage to clone the original 160GB drive onto a 1TB WD, and then intended to use WinMFS to expand to use all the space on the new drive.


I think my case might be a little simpler -- since I already used WinMFS to move from the stock drive to a 1.5TB drive and I already did the expansion etc. Now I just need to do an exact image of the 1.5TB drive to move from the Samsung to the WD. I suspect the low power mode on the Samsung is causing problems on cold boot, which is why I want to try the WD now and move the Samsung to my NAS. SO I don't need to change any partition sizes or anything... (knock on wood)


----------



## GrayeDog

whitepelican said:


> Have you tried just doing a truncated backup/restore with WinMFS to see if your new drive works OK without having to copy all of the recordings off the old one?


I did, and that worked just fine. New drive took the backup just fine, showed all my records (though, obviously, they didn't play), TiVo started up fine. Even soft reboot worked on my WD10EARS. I had forgotten to click Expand the Drive, so I can't verify for certain that it would recognize the larger drive, but I don't see why it wouldn't.

Any thoughts on next steps for me?


----------



## richsadams

GrayeDog said:


> So, I've taken a few days break from trying(/failing) to upgrade my internal drive, thinking I'd gotten a bum WD10EARS from Newegg.
> 
> Was watching the Olympics yesterday and noticed that my TiVo started to freeze a little bit. The playback would stop, occasionally the DVR functionality would lag. Generally, I'd rewind, go forward, and it'd stop at the same point, but if I changed channels and went back, everything was fine. Now I'm starting to wonder if maybe the new drive is fine, but the current (stock) drive has a bed sector (or similar). Has anyone heard of this happening (whether it's the symptom or the cause) ?
> 
> It would go a long way to determining why WinMFS won't finish copying my current drive to the new drive.
> 
> I'm thinking of running the WD LifeGuard utility on the new drive and making sure it's a-ok (takes ~96 hours!), and if it is, just accepting the fact that I will lose all my recordings, and that I can always swap drives if I need to. Anyone have another thought, or agree with that?


It's possible that your stock drive has some bad sectors and there are problems when TiVo attempts to write to them. It's also possible that some corrupted data was causing the copy fail from your stock drive to your new drive. (It's rare as everything is on separate partitions but it's hard to say what might have happened.)

I'd certainly run the diagnostic utility on your new drive to be sure it's okay. If so you could try just doing a truncated backup of the stock drive and image the new drive w/winMFS. As you mention, you'll lose existing recordings but you could copy any (non-protected) recordings to your computer if needed. It's still possible that things won't go well and in that case (as long as you're confident that your new drive is good) you may have to go with a fresh copy via Instant Cake. Unfortunately that will be like having a new TiVo so you'll need to get your cable cards paired (unless you have FIOS), etc. You can also save your Season Passes, etc. by subscribing to TiVo's Guru Guides or Kidzone.

It's possible something else is in play (cable card issue, signal, etc.). You could check the signal strength, RS Corrected and Uncorrected errors and such. But hard drives are the most common culprit when it comes to that sort of thing.

EDIT: Oh, I see by the above post that you did a truncated backup and it worked okay. (I was fielding calls and didn't update the page before I responded  ). So I'd still run the deep diagnostic (read/write all zeroes/read) on the new drive...always a good idea no matter what. Then image the new drive and go from there.

Let us know how it goes!


----------



## sjmyst

bkdtv said:


> A 1.0TB drive without MfsSupersize = 142-144 HD hours.
> A 1.0TB drive with MfsSupersize = 157 HD hours.
> A 1.35TB drive with MfsSupersize = 157 * 1.35 = 212-213 HD hours
> 
> Your drive is correctly limited to 1.35TB so it should work fine.


I guess I just don't understand MfsSuperSize. For this option to allow more HD recording hours for the same size disk (looking at your two numbers for the same 1tb disk) implies that MfsSuperSize has something to do with compression. But, I'm guessing not. The name MfsSuperSize implies something more like enlarging the partition size for the recordings.

I guess it was just a strange coincidence that my numbers worked out this way:

My 1tb disk I had 142 HD hours (according to the Tivo System Information screen). After using my 1.5tb disk I had 213 HD hours. So...

1000gb (or 1tb) /142HDhrs = 7.04225... gb/HDhr

7.04225...gb/HDhr * 213HDhrs = EXACTLY 1500gb = 1.5tb

So, I guess this is just a math anomaly... I'm really not trying to be a smart a** here. I just find it really strange that these numbers work out this way. Perhaps, there is a reason...

Regardless, the good news for me is that my recording size is 1.5 times larger than before (142 * 1.5 = 213)!!

One thing. Point 18 in section V of the FAQ was very misleading for me. This part of the FAQ states that I can't get the maximum size (1.35tb according to the FAQ) from my 1.5tb disk unless I upgrade using the original 250gb disk. The text reads:

"You *must *start with an original (non-expanded) TiVo image; images from upgraded TiVos will not work. You *must *also use WinMFS to prepare drives larger than 1TB. "

My upgrade to a 1.5tb drive was using a 1tb expanded source drive. The 1tb source drive was copied from my original 250gb disk and was expanded to use the full 1tb. So, for me, you don't have to use the original non-expanded 250gb drive when upgrading to the 1.5tb drive to get the maximum space (1.35tb).

Perhaps I'm just reading the statement in the FAQ incorrectly, but it really read to me that I had to use my original S3 disk to get the maximum out of my 1.5tb disk.

Regards,
Steve


----------



## richsadams

sjmyst said:


> I guess I just don't understand MfsSuperSize. For this option to allow more HD recording hours for the same size disk (looking at your two numbers for the same 1tb disk) implies that MfsSuperSize has something to do with compression. But, I'm guessing not. The name MfsSuperSize implies something more like enlarging the partition size for the recordings.


 MFS Supersize frees up extra space reserved for storing tivoclips; the advertising videos that are downloaded periodically.


----------



## Kevin R

Tried to download the widdle ISO from the first page link, and couldn't get it, and ended up with the PC crashing due to a virus. Don't know if the timing was a fluke or what.
Can anyone confirm that the link in section 14 line 1 is working OK?
Sort of afraid of trying it and the WinMfs downloads again after the last few days rebuilding this thing.

Thanks,

Kevin R


----------



## dt100

I know this question may go against the grain of this forum, but here goes. I need more recording space on my Tivo HD, but I am wondering if it is really worth upgrading the internal drive. An external 1TB expander is $130.An internal drive is about $70-90, depending on how much I look on-line. With the external, I still keep the additional space of the current internal drive, and I do not void my warranty (not much longer left on it anyway). I have upgraded an internal Tivo drive before, so I know it is not that difficult, but reading through some of the posts here things sometimes go wrong. So, aside from saving a few bucks upgrading the internal drive, is there some other advantage to upgrading the internal drive over getting the WD external. Thanks


----------



## richsadams

dt100 said:


> I know this question may go against the grain of this forum, but here goes. I need more recording space on my Tivo HD, but I am wondering if it is really worth upgrading the internal drive. An external 1TB expander is $130.An internal drive is about $70-90, depending on how much I look on-line. With the external, I still keep the additional space of the current internal drive, and I do not void my warranty (not much longer left on it anyway). I have upgraded an internal Tivo drive before, so I know it is not that difficult, but reading through some of the posts here things sometimes go wrong. So, aside from saving a few bucks upgrading the internal drive, is there some other advantage to upgrading the internal drive over getting the WD external. Thanks


Having a single/larger internal drive removes one additional failure point. If you need more space you could opt for a 1.5TB drive upgrade. Not all of the space is utilized but it would give you 1.26TB (198 HD Hours) which is about the equivalent of the original internal and 1TB external drives.

The 1TB WD My DVR Expanders haven't been on the market long enough to know their lifespan. However the 500GB model appears to be failing at between 12 and 18 months. That's a very poor track record. The short lifespan may or may not extend to the 1TB model, only time will tell.

Although they can tell by looking at their logs, TiVo turns a blind eye to upgrades. When upgrading the internal drive it's strongly recommended that you put the original drive on the shelf as a backup. (Repurposing a 160GB HDD is hardly worth the effort anyway.) Should something happen or you need to return the box to TiVo under warranty you can simply slip the original drive back in. Of course you could always wait until your warranty expires before you upgrade if you'd feel more comfortable.

With respect to "things going wrong", it's rarely something that can't be overcome and usually due to "operator error". The winMFS program is a true cakewalk, particularly compared to the upgrade days of old. If you follow the instructions in the first post there's no reason for anything to fail. I've done it four or five times now and it's worked every time. It looks a bit complicated but once you do it, it's really quite simple. It sounds like you're plenty savvy in that area so I'd expect no problems.

I've had it both ways, with an external drive and upgraded internal, and I'm very glad I upgraded the internal drives on our TiVo's. I wouldn't do it any other way now. YMMV of course.

Best of luck and happy upgrading!


----------



## dt100

Thanks for the info. The upgrade I did was several years ago on a series 1. I upgraded with the Seagate Barracuda IV 80GB, which was "the" drive to get in those days. Anyway, I may not have access now to a windows computer, so I may need to get a USB to SATA drive adapter to run the upgrade on my mac. That will add a few bucks to the cost of the upgrade. So, the real issue is if I want to take a chance on the reliability of the 1TB expander. Something to think about. Thanks again.


----------



## schwinn

Note that many upgraders purchase a WD brand drive (quiet, and good price). This drive needs to have the "Intellipark" feature disabled to work perfectly in the TivoHD. From what I have seen there are no USB-SATA adapters that can allow this to happen (even if there is one that does, then you need to make sure you get THAT one). So, just be aware of that (and read the first post completely) before buying any hardware...


----------



## ufo4sale

Hi, I have an external western digital hardrive bought this year. will it work with the original series III TiVo? Thanks.


----------



## richsadams

dt100 said:


> So, the real issue is if I want to take a chance on the reliability of the 1TB expander. Something to think about. Thanks again.


Any time!


----------



## richsadams

ufo4sale said:


> Hi, I have an external western digital hardrive bought this year. will it work with the original series III TiVo? Thanks.


It depends on the model. Most WD eSATA drives will work via plug and play with the original Series3 (not the TiVo HD) _except_ the WD My Book line. Take a look at Section IV, #1 of the first post of this thread for more info.


----------



## dt100

schwinn said:


> From what I have seen there are no USB-SATA adapters that can allow this to happen (even if there is one that does, then you need to make sure you get THAT one)


Rats! Looks like upgrading with an internal 1.5TB with a Mac is getting more complicated. I like the idea of "less things to go wrong", and am not thrilled by taking my chances on a WD expander. I could buy it with my credit card which will double the warranty. The first post on this thread mentions Seagate and WD 1.5TB drives. The Seagate 1.5TBs are loud. I read some posts that the Samsung 1.5 drives are probably not a good choice for a Tivo? Is there an Hitachi 1.5TB that will work as an internal Tivo drive which is not too loud?


----------



## HazelW

It's not so much that the DVR expander goes bad, but your whole system goes bad and you lose all your recording and your cable-card pairing information. In my case I had two TiVo's with them. Each "system" went bad in a year or so. but I never found out whether it was the HD in the TiVo or in the expander. I physically removed the expander but the TiVos would not work so I ended up replacing the HDs in both TiVos. I did remove the HDs from the expanders and the appear to be OK. My guess is that the expanders cause the whole system to crash. Note I could not remove them using the menu item in the Tivo.


----------



## richsadams

HazelW said:


> It's not so much that the DVR expander goes bad, but your whole system goes bad and you lose all your recording and your cable-card pairing information. In my case I had two TiVo's with them. Each "system" went bad in a year or so. but I never found out whether it was the HD in the TiVo or in the expander. I physically removed the expander but the TiVos would not work so I ended up replacing the HDs in both TiVos. I did remove the HDs from the expanders and the appear to be OK. My guess is that the expanders cause the whole system to crash. Note I could not remove them using the menu item in the Tivo.


Wow! That was pretty catastrophic! I think quite unusual as well. With the exception of your experience the WD My DVR Expanders have simply failed. Once they were properly divorced the associated TiVo's returned to working normally. (Although recordings made since the Expander was connected were indeed lost.)

Based on numerous posts now it appears that it's about a 50/50 split between the actual Expander hard drive failing and the enclosure itself. Some folks have successfully installed the Expander hard drive in another enclosure. AFAIK all of the failures have been with the 500GB models.


----------



## dt100

This is all interesting. It sure seems like there was an unofficial recall of the 1TB expanders. They disappeared from every retailer for several months, and have now reappeared everywhere at the same time!! At $129 the price is just under the pain threshold to justify not doing a DIY. With the double warranty of a credit card, I am leaning towards getting the expander. Of course, that would not be nearly as fun as doing the upgrade!


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

HazelW said:


> It's not so much that the DVR expander goes bad, but your whole system goes bad and you lose all your recording and your cable-card pairing information. In my case I had two TiVo's with them. Each "system" went bad in a year or so. but I never found out whether it was the HD in the TiVo or in the expander. I physically removed the expander but the TiVos would not work so I ended up replacing the HDs in both TiVos. I did remove the HDs from the expanders and the appear to be OK. My guess is that the expanders cause the whole system to crash. Note I could not remove them using the menu item in the Tivo.


It's NOT unusual.

I currently have 1 dead TiVo HD and 1 dead 500 GB DVR expander. They died together.

The dead TiVo HD won't boot far enough to be able to divorce the expander; the expander doesn't work with the replacement TiVo HD.


----------



## cjv2

Phantom Gremlin said:


> It's NOT unusual.


*cues Tom Jones*


----------



## richsadams

cjv2 said:


> *cues Tom Jones*


Oh thanks...just what I needed in my head before turning in. Nice.


----------



## richsadams

Phantom Gremlin said:


> It's NOT unusual.


Okay that makes two.


----------



## johnspalm

Another successful upgrade to note.........

Since I wanted to avoid the whole Intellipark thing with the WDs, I recently bought a Hitachi Deskstar 1TB (HD31000) for an internal upgrade. I performed the upgrade last night doing an HDDScan and MFScopy. Replaced the drive in the box and fired it up. All is good!

A few minor obstacles............

1) One of the screws that secures the disk cradle to the box was stripped, so I had to improvise and do a little bending to get the disk off. 

2) I connected the new disk to my computer and mounted it (i.e. assigned a drive letter) before I did anything else. Bad idea. WinMFS does not like mounted disks. I unmounted it and I was able to move forward. Moral of the story here is LEAVE THE NEW DISK ALONE. Just plug it in.

3) Stupid me left too many programs in the Recently Deleted folder. The copy ended up taking 2-3 hours.

Minor inconveniences, but, all turned out well.

(BTW, I am a former DVD Expander user. It bit the dust after 18 months, as usual.)


----------



## schwinn

richadams: I just want to thank you, publicly, for your excellent information here, and your overall demeanor. I participate on many forums for various things, and rarely do I ever find someone who is just so damn patient and nice with every one of their posts - no matter how often someone asks the same question over and over, you reply simply and kindly, as if it was a new question.

What's more, you never seem to get annoyed at people when they make the same mistaken statements or anything.

I commend you on your ability to do this, time after time. And I (and probably many others) thank you for your continued, detailed tracking of all there is to know about drive upgrades!


----------



## jlib

Indeed! richadams along with FAQ maintainer bkdtv are a true one two punch. Knowledge is power...


----------



## richsadams

Ah shucks guys <kicking instep>..you're _way_ to kind.  It's a labor of love...I've gotten so much great advice from others here that the least I can do is give back when I can. (Both of you have done your share too BTW) Plus it's a great break from the oft times tedious work I do to keep a roof over our collective heads. Cheers for that! 

P.S. Agreed w/o bkdtv, this thread could have been dead in the water years ago!

Okay...and a one and a two and a three.._Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya_...


----------



## PhiTauBill

It would probably be pure speculation at this point, but does anyone have an idea of whether the new Tivo Premiere models will be user upgradeable with respect to the internal drive? Any possibility of support for drives bigger than 1.5TB?

I've had my issues with mt TivOHDs and the DVR Expanders, and solved those on my TivoHD units by using 1TB internal upgrades as noted in this forum. I'd like to purchase a new TivoPremiere, but I'd prefer not to pay a $200 premium for a 1TB drive and I probably don't want to do so unless I am confident that the unit could recover in the event of a hard drive failure (thanks tot he backup created in the upgrade process).

Thoughts, speculation, conjecture?


----------



## richsadams

PhiTauBill said:


> It would probably be pure speculation at this point, but does anyone have an idea of whether the new Tivo Premiere models will be user upgradeable with respect to the internal drive? Any possibility of support for drives bigger than 1.5TB?


I was wondering the same thing myself. Of course no one will know for sure until they attempt it. So you're stepping up to be a TiVo Pioneer? It comes with a lifetime membership to the Pioneers Club you know. 

My WAG is yes we'll be able to upgrade them because I can't imagine TiVo spending the time/money necessary to rework everything from the ground up and they've turned a blind eye at least until now. I don't see any "features" that would preclude a hard drive upgrade. By example there is far more commonality between the original Series1's and the TiVo HD's than differences. I've no idea if a 1.5TB drive (or larger) will be applicable. I guess only time will tell.

I'm really tempted to get a Premiere and give it a spin. It would be the 320GB model for the DIY upgrade opportunity...but I might wait. Prices usually drop after 6 months. Hmmm...


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> I was wondering the same thing myself. Of course no one will know for sure until they attempt it. So you're stepping up to be a TiVo Pioneer? It comes with a lifetime membership to the Pioneers Club you know.
> 
> My WAG is yes we'll be able to upgrade them because I can't imagine TiVo spending the time/money necessary to rework everything from the ground up and they've turned a blind eye at least until now. I don't see any "features" that would preclude a hard drive upgrade. By example there is far more commonality between the original Series1's and the TiVo HD's than differences. I've no idea if a 1.5TB drive (or larger) will be applicable. I guess only time will tell.
> 
> I'm really tempted to get a Premiere and give it a spin. It would be the 320GB model for the DIY upgrade opportunity...but I might wait. Prices usually drop after 6 months. Hmmm...


I was wondering about that myself, although my 3 THD's are just fine.

Anyway, I would think they left everything alone in the OS, or they could have had the XL fitted with a 1.5 or 2 tb drive!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> ...although my 3 THD's are just fine.


Soooo...you're inferring that there is some sort of correlation between having something that works and acquiring something new?  I'd still be driving my '72 Pinto if that were the case.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Soooo...you're inferring that there is some sort of correlation between having something that works and acquiring something new?  I'd still be driving my '72 Pinto if that were the case.


Well, I can live without the HD Menu's!


----------



## schwinn

jlib said:


> Indeed! richadams along with FAQ maintainer bkdtv are a true one two punch. Knowledge is power...


Doh! I missed mentioning bkdtv in that post... I agree that he, too, is very helpful and kind to everyone on this board. Thank you, too, bkdtv.

And, he seems to know SO much about the details in these things... almost makes me wonder if he's a spy!


----------



## innocentfreak

richsadams said:


> I was wondering the same thing myself. Of course no one will know for sure until they attempt it. So you're stepping up to be a TiVo Pioneer? It comes with a lifetime membership to the Pioneers Club you know.
> 
> I'm really tempted to get a Premiere and give it a spin. It would be the 320GB model for the DIY upgrade opportunity...but I might wait. Prices usually drop after 6 months. Hmmm...


I finally caved since I had a buyer for 2 of my HDs. After the upgrade problems I had since I was one of the ones bit first by the new WD drives not working, I just decided to go with the XL.

This is my concern also, but I figure with the upgrade offer off $100 off lifetime they would have to drop more than $100 for it to be cheaper.


----------



## dt100

I am now leaning towards the 1TB internal upgrade option, and not taking the chance with the external. I might be able to use my PC at work to run the disable program on the WD. So, not sure if there is a clear answer to this question, but is there a preference now between the WD AV drive (I believe it is the EVDS model) and the Hitachi 7k1000.c? Thanks for your patience with all of my questions.


----------



## richsadams

innocentfreak said:


> This is my concern also, but I figure with the upgrade offer off $100 off lifetime they would have to drop more than $100 for it to be cheaper.


I didn't see the $100 off lifetime offer...ugh, that makes it even more attractive.

Oh honey...did you see this? It's a _great_ deal! No, really!


----------



## richsadams

dt100 said:


> I am now leaning towards the 1TB internal upgrade option, and not taking the chance with the external. I might be able to use my PC at work to run the disable program on the WD. So, not sure if there is a clear answer to this question, but is there a preference now between the WD AV drive (I believe it is the EVDS model) and the Hitachi 7k1000.c? Thanks for your patience with all of my questions.


Good move. Both drives need to be tweaked. The WD Intellipark "feature" timeout needs to be extended or disabled and the Hitachi needs the AAM tuned to 128 (although it's very quite out of the box) so there's a little work to be done either way. Based on my personal experience I've found them both to be reliable and they run quiet and cool.

If you can find the WD10EVDS that's good as the AAM is already tuned to 128. Most retailers are now selling the WDEARS models though...which seem to work fine as well but may need the AAM tuned to 128 (although I hear they are very quiet already - no pun intended). If you do go with the Hitachi be sure it's the HD31000 IDK/7K (7K1000.*C* model as you posted, not the 7K1000 which is much noisier).

Happy upgrading!


----------



## justen_m

dt100 said:


> I am now leaning towards the 1TB internal upgrade option, and not taking the chance with the external. I might be able to use my PC at work to run the disable program on the WD. So, not sure if there is a clear answer to this question, but is there a preference now between the WD AV drive (I believe it is the EVDS model) and the Hitachi 7k1000.c? Thanks for your patience with all of my questions.


The Hitatchi seems popular. I just upgraded my TivoHD with it this morning and everything ran flawlessly. You should run HDDScan to change the AAM setting to 128 to quiet things down.

I went with the Hitatch because it was listed in this FAQ as being compatible, while the WD EVDS has some issues that need to be dealt with. See questions 28 and 29 in section IV of this FAQ for details. I don't have the hardware required to fix a newly manufactured fix the Intellipark EVDS drive.


----------



## alyssa

innocentfreak said:


> I finally caved since I had a buyer for 2 of my HDs. After the upgrade problems I had since I was one of the ones bit first by the new WD drives not working, I just decided to go with the XL.


how soon till you crack the case open?


----------



## fljoe

richsadams said:


> I didn't see the $100 off lifetime offer...ugh, that makes it even more attractive.
> 
> Oh honey...did you see this? It's a _great_ deal! No, really!


Here's the link for $199 Lifetime on Tivo Premiere for current Lifetime members :
https://www3.tivo.com/store/upgrade.do

Go ahead Rich .. make our day ;-)


----------



## pl1

richsadams said:


> I didn't see the $100 off lifetime offer...ugh, that makes it even more attractive.
> 
> Oh honey...did you see this? It's a _great_ deal! No, really!


My upgrade offers (from my old S2, S3, and THD) all say $299 for the new unit, plus $199 ($200 off) for a Lifetime transfer. The old deal was $149 for the THD plus $299 for the LT transfer. Are there other offers?


----------



## bciocco

Would something like the BYTECC BT-360 USB 2.0 to Dual SATA Adapter, With OTB(One Touch Backup) from NewEgg (Unable to post link due to low post count) work to copy all of the TiVo drive onto a 1 TB replacement drive?

Would it eliminate the need for WinMFS?

Thanks.

My pc is ide, so if I need to purchase adapter, I thought purchasing one that would do all of the work would make it easier.


----------



## innocentfreak

alyssa said:


> how soon till you crack the case open?


Lol. Honestly with a 1TB I doubt I will have the need which is why for $40 I went with the three year extended warranty. If it transfers fast enough, it will be cheaper and easier just to add drives to my Windows Home Server. I think I still have 12 drive bays empty.

With review units going out soon according to the Engadget Podcast, we may see the inside soon if any of the reviewers open one up.


----------



## innocentfreak

pl1 said:


> My upgrade offers (from my old S2, S3, and THD) all say $299 for the new unit, plus $199 ($200 off) for a Lifetime transfer. The old deal was $149 for the THD plus $299 for the LT transfer. Are there other offers?


Keep in mind this isn't a lifetime transfer this time. You keep lifetime on the old box also. Also there is a thread in the Premiere forums about using fatwallet for cash back. If it goes through I saved an additional $120 on the 2 XLs with lifetime which both already had $100 off lifetime.

The only other deal is if you have a monthly TiVo the hardware is 20% off so the Premiere is 239 and the XL is 399. Of course the best deal is if you work retail, most likely BB, and have access to sellmoretivo.com where you get $200 off the hardware.


----------



## richsadams

bciocco said:


> Would something like the BYTECC BT-360 USB 2.0 to Dual SATA Adapter, With OTB(One Touch Backup) from NewEgg (Unable to post link due to low post count) work to copy all of the TiVo drive onto a 1 TB replacement drive?
> 
> Would it eliminate the need for WinMFS?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> My pc is ide, so if I need to purchase adapter, I thought purchasing one that would do all of the work would make it easier.


Welcome to the forum. The short answers to your questions would be no and no. (Were it only that easy! ) You will have to use the winMFS (or MFSLive) programs to upgrade no matter what.

The upgrade process is not really "copying" in the normal sense, it's more complicated than that. I won't waste your time explaining because it really isn't necessary. All you need to know is that if you want to simply upgrade from your original hard drive to a larger one you'll need to follow the instructions in Section V, #22a in the first post of this sticky. If you also want to keep your recordings you'll need to follow #22b in that same section.

I've never upgraded using an IDE system, but it's possible that something like this IDE/SATA docking station might work:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817735001&Tpk=ide sata docking station

Otherwise your best bet would be to befriend someone that has a current PC, buy them dinner and go with the normal instructions. Everything you need to know is in the first post. It looks a bit complicated but it's really not once you get going. As someone mentioned earlier it can be done in under an hour (from opening the box to enjoying your "new" TiVo). Have a read through the post and if you still have some questions don't hesitate to ask.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## bciocco

Thanks for the quick response.
The item I mentioned also works as a dual SATA adapter, or I can install a PCI dual SATA card. I lean toward the card (they are under $20), but I need to check to see if I have power supply cables to run the drives.

I was looking at the adapters on this page:
http://www.mfslive.org/setupcomputer.htm


----------



## bciocco

BTW, I was initially going to get the WD My DVR Expander. Reading this forum has convinced me that it would not be prudent.


----------



## richsadams

bciocco said:


> Thanks for the quick response.
> The item I mentioned also works as a dual SATA adapter, or I can install a PCI dual SATA card. I lean toward the card (they are under $20), but I need to check to see if I have power supply cables to run the drives.
> 
> I was looking at the adapters on this page:
> http://www.mfslive.org/setupcomputer.htm


D'oh! I should have gotten that from your post, but it's Friday and I'm easily distracted. It sounds like you want to save your recordings so that should work but if it were me I would invest a few dollars more in a dual SATA docking station like this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...l_sata_docking_station-_-17-121-049-_-Product

For me it would be a little more permanent and useful going forward for other opportunities. Either one is probably a little less complicated than installing a SATA/PATA/IDE PCI card in your computer. Once you upgrade to a new computer the adapter or docking station would still be useful since it has USB and eSATA connections.

If you didn't want to save your recordings you could use an adapter like that listed on the MFSLive.org site since you'd only be connecting one drive at a time.



bciocco said:


> BTW, I was initially going to get the WD My DVR Expander. Reading this forum has convinced me that it would not be prudent.


Probably just as well...one less failure point plus a new OEM drive has a 3 year warranty as opposed to the Expander's one-year warranty. Based on numerous posts about the Expander's short lifespan an internal upgrade will probably last a good deal longer. :up:

Hope that helps! Oh look...something shiny.


----------



## dt100

justen_m said:


> I don't have the hardware required to fix a newly manufactured fix the Intellipark EVDS drive.


The hardware being a PC that can be opened up?


----------



## bciocco

richsadams said:


> D'oh! I should have gotten that from your post, but it's Friday and I'm easily distracted. It sounds like you want to save your recordings so that should work but if it were me I would invest a few dollars more in a dual SATA docking station like this one:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...l_sata_docking_station-_-17-121-049-_-Product
> 
> For me it would be a little more permanent and useful going forward for other opportunities. Either one is probably a little less complicated than installing a SATA/PATA/IDE PCI card in your computer. Once you upgrade to a new computer the adapter or docking station would still be useful since it has USB and eSATA connections.
> 
> If you didn't want to save your recordings you could use an adapter like that listed on the MFSLive.org site since you'd only be connecting one drive at a time.
> 
> Probably just as well...one less failure point plus a new OEM drive has a 3 year warranty as opposed to the Expander's one-year warranty. Based on numerous posts about the Expander's short lifespan an internal upgrade will probably last a good deal longer. :up:
> 
> Hope that helps! Oh look...something shiny.


Talking about something shiny...
Let's see $120 or so to upgrade my TiVo HD or $300 for the new HD Premier with 1Tb and the QWERTY keyboard in the remote...hmmmmmm? 
Of course, that would bring back using two remotes instead of just the Harmony. This is getting to be a tougher decision.


----------



## donnoh

bciocco said:


> Talking about something shiny...
> Let's see $120 or so to upgrade my TiVo HD or $300 for the new HD Premier with 1Tb and the QWERTY keyboard in the remote...hmmmmmm?
> Of course, that would bring back using two remotes instead of just the Harmony. This is getting to be a tougher decision.


I think your numbers are off a bit. The $300 Premier comes with a 320 Gig drive, for the 1 TB drive you have to get the XL for $500. Also the qwerty keyboard remote is additional and isn't available yet, when who knows.


----------



## bciocco

Too good to be true.
The plus side is that it looks like the new remote will work with the TiVo HD.

Back on topic. Is there a recommended drive that will work "out of the box" without needing to do the WD Intellipark or Hitachi AAC mod?


----------



## justen_m

dt100 said:


> The hardware being a PC that can be opened up?


Correct, and that has a SATA controller. My only desktop is ancient and only has a PATA controller. I could have added a SATA controller to it (PCI SATA cards are <$20), if that would work. However, it doesn't have a monitor, keyboard, or mouse, either. I just use it as NAS and log in with VNC for admin, but that's kludgy, as it only has a 10b/t network card (not the best machine for NAS, either). My main computers are my newer laptop and netbooks. The Hitatchi just was the easier route. The prices are about the same for both drives.


----------



## richsadams

bciocco said:


> Talking about something shiny...
> Let's see $120 or so to upgrade my TiVo HD or $300 for the new HD Premier with 1Tb and the QWERTY keyboard in the remote...hmmmmmm?
> Of course, that would bring back using two remotes instead of just the Harmony. This is getting to be a tougher decision.


Yep, I'm headed down that road myself (although the keyboard remote will be additional). I will probably get a Premiere XL...which really surprised me, but the numbers play out because of the upgrade packages TiVo is currently offering as well as a discount currently being offered via fatwallet.com. Here's the thread about saving a good deal of money:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=444176

And here's my post about my rational for buying something shiny and new (when I really don't need it  ):

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7812043#post7812043

Shiny stuff...very distracting. But I have to admit, although I was a little dissapointed with what TiVo announced, for about $350 I can get a brand new TiVo Premiere XL (1TB) with some additional bells and whistles. That's almost reasonable and only about $25 or $30 more than if I upgraded the basic model myself. If I can get a few bucks for one of my existing TiVo's w/1TB hard drive that brings the cost down a bit more. At least I'll have a less difficult time justifying it to the wife than I did when the original Series3 hit the streets for $700!


----------



## richsadams

bciocco said:


> Back on topic. Is there a recommended drive that will work "out of the box" without needing to do the WD Intellipark or Hitachi AAC mod?


The 1TB Seagate Pipeline (ST31000322CS) or a Seagate Pipeline Pro (ST31000533CS) drive line doesn't require any modifications. (Stay far away from the 1.5TB Pipeline drives though...terrible track record for some reason.) The standard Pipeline is going for about $100 and the Pros are going for about $110 to $140 right now (both a little more spendy than the WD or Hitachi).

I haven't tried one myself and they are fairly new but they are DVR dedicated drives and reported to run quiet and cool. Here's a review of the new Pro line:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/seagate-pipeline-1tb


----------



## alyssa

richsadams said:


> Shiny stuff...very distracting. But I have to admit, although I was a little dissapointed with what TiVo announced, for about $350 I can get a brand new TiVo Premiere XL (1TB) with some additional bells and whistles. That's almost reasonable and only about $25 or $30 more than if I upgraded the basic model myself.


I'm guessing (wildly without facts) that the S4's will able to accept a branded external via plug&play eventually.
Any thoughts about a way to marry a non-branded external to the XL HD? Should it be possible? if the architecture hasn't change drastically?


----------



## richsadams

alyssa said:


> I'm guessing (wildly without facts) that the S4's will able to accept a branded external via plug&play eventually.
> Any thoughts about a way to marry a non-branded external to the XL HD? Should it be possible? if the architecture hasn't change drastically?


If you go through the order process on the TiVo website you can add a WD My DVR Expander to a TiVo Premiere order. It's almost a certainty that the Premieres will employ a "closed" system just like the TiVo HD when it comes to plug and pray expansion. The lifetime track record for the 500GB WD My DVR Expanders is pretty appalling. No idea if the 1TB models will follow suit.

It'll be up to Spike (MFSLive.org) to tear into a new Premiere HDD to see what (if anything) has been changed with the OS architecture. I'd guess winMFS will work to marry an "unsupported" external drive or that he'll tweak the program to fit, but only time will tell.


----------



## dt100

richsadams said:


> Most retailers are now selling the WDEARS models though...which seem to work fine as well but may need the AAM tuned to 128 (although I hear they are very quiet already - no pun intended).
> Happy upgrading!


- I thought I read that the EARS version of the WD drives should not be used in a Tivo. Can they? I was doing my final price check before ordering, and I noticed that the 1.5TB size of the EARS drive is only a few bucks more than the 1 TB size. Thanks


----------



## S3-2501

richsadams said:


> The 1TB Seagate Pipeline (ST31000322CS) or a Seagate Pipeline Pro (ST31000533CS) drive line doesn't require any modifications.


bciocco: FYI, I have the ST31000322CS in my TivoHD and it works fine, though the noise character is much deeper than the typical hard drive, and I had to use some anti-vibration materials to dampen/reduce the annoyance of the low-end noise. It's a faint rumbling or thumping sound, like a faint bass line. It's not really that loud, but the nature of the noise can be annoying in a very quiet environment.

Still, until WD releases a new dedicated AV drive without the Intellipark issue, this seems to be the only affordable option to do a hassle-free upgrade using a DVR-specific drive without any special pc connections or utilities (other than winmfs.)


----------



## bciocco

S3-2501 said:


> bciocco: FYI, I have the ST31000322CS in my TivoHD and it works fine, though the noise character is much deeper than the typical hard drive, and I had to use some anti-vibration materials to dampen/reduce the annoyance of the low-end noise. It's a faint rumbling or thumping sound, like a faint bass line. It's not really that loud, but the nature of the noise can be annoying in a very quiet environment.
> 
> Still, until WD releases a new dedicated AV drive without the Intellipark issue, this seems to be the only affordable option to do a hassle-free upgrade using a DVR-specific drive without any special pc connections or utilities (other than winmfs.)


Thanks that's good info. It actually helps me lean more toward the Hitachi because a little figuring things out on the front end will pay off by making it quieter in the long run. I would rather have the drive be quiet than try to mask the noise.


----------



## justen_m

The AAM mod for the Hitatchi using HDDScan literally takes less than a minute. The drive is already hooked up, as you just restored your original backup to it. The program itself is a 1.7mb free download. So the entire download/install/run sequence might take 2 minutes, unless you are on dial-up. Pretty painless, as long as you do it _before_ you actually install the new drive in your Tivo.


----------



## richsadams

dt100 said:


> - I thought I read that the EARS version of the WD drives should not be used in a Tivo. Can they? I was doing my final price check before ordering, and I noticed that the 1.5TB size of the EARS drive is only a few bucks more than the 1 TB size. Thanks


Well, that's a good question. I also read the same thing on the MFSLive.org Forum back in December or so. But IIRC there are several folks here that are using them without any issues. I don't have time, but you might want to do a quick search and see what you can find out...or maybe those folks will chime in.


----------



## dt100

richsadams said:


> Well, that's a good question. I also read the same thing on the MFSLive.org Forum back in December or so. But IIRC there are several folks here that are using them without any issues. I don't have time, but you might want to do a quick search and see what you can find out...or maybe those folks will chime in.


Found it: "Members should avoid the Western Digital WDxxEARS, as they have a unique 4KB physical sector and the TiVo was designed for use on drives with a traditional 512 Byte physical sector." (From first post)


----------



## richsadams

dt100 said:


> Found it: "Members should avoid the Western Digital WDxxEARS, as they have a unique 4KB physical sector and the TiVo was designed for use on drives with a traditional 512 Byte physical sector." (From first post)


So far two members have successfully upgraded their TiVo HD's with the WD10EARS drives:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7720023#post7720023

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7736641#post7736641

The first member followed up about a week later saying that all is well.

It's been more than a month and we'd probably hear about any issues they had, but perhaps they will confirm things are still good?

However another member is having a problem with his upgrade. It would appear to be a bad sector issue on his original hard drive (he can't get it to fully copy a backup to his new WD10EARS drive) and nothing to do with the EARS model, but you never know.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7801302#post7801302


----------



## rainbow

Well, it appears to me that I might have bought the wrong thing to do up Series 3 internal drive upgrade.

I ordered the adapter a couple of wks ago. I finally received the 1T hard drive (WDEVCS) yesterday. I can't see any way of attaching this thiing to the HD. The box does say cable. The sales receipt does, however, say it is a 'cable adepter converter w/auto backup button full power supply.'

Does anyone have a link, or some words of wisdom, of how one is supposed to actually hook this up? There aren't any good instructions included on how this works...

I had planned to using my laptop to get the hard drive done (no desktops for me).

Guess I should have gone the way of a docking station instead. Very frustrating. I am fairly intuitive, but this thing doesn'tmake sense to me!

This is a photo of what I bought










link is here: http://www.amazon.com/Serial-ATA-Ad...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1268000196&sr=8-13


----------



## innocentfreak

Do you have a link to what you bought? Also does it connect to the drive or possible the IDE/Sata cable you would connect to the drive?


----------



## aaronwt

What manufature dates are OK for the WD 1TB green drives? I have some old ones I want to swap around before I start selling my TiVoHD units.


----------



## MPSAN

rainbow said:


> Well, it appears to me that I might have bought the wrong thing to do up Series 3 internal drive upgrade.
> 
> I ordered the adapter a couple of wks ago. I finally received the 1T hard drive (WDEVCS) yesterday. I can't see any way of attaching this thiing to the HD. The box does say cable. The sales receipt does, however, say it is a 'cable adepter converter w/auto backup button full power supply.'
> 
> Does anyone have a link, or some words of wisdom, of how one is supposed to actually hook this up? There aren't any good instructions included on how this works...
> 
> I had planned to using my laptop to get the hard drive done (no desktops for me).
> 
> Guess I should have gone the way of a docking station instead. Very frustrating. I am fairly intuitive, but this thing doesn'tmake sense to me!
> 
> This is a photo of what I bought
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> link is here: http://www.amazon.com/Serial-ATA-Ad...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1268000196&sr=8-13


You should have the power supply and a cable/adapter that will connect to the new SATA power connector. ALSO, you should have a cable with a USB on 1 end and another adapter to go to either an IDE or SATA connector on the new drive. In your case it will be the SATA signal connector.The AMAZON link shows all of this. To the RIGHT of the "backup button" is the SATA connector. You may need to use a short SATA to SATA cable to attach it to the new HD, but I think it, too, is supplied. In fact, it looks like that is what the cable is on the right of YOUR photo. I believe that the cable to the left of that is a converter for the output of the power supply. It may be an older IDE molex type connector and so you would use the short molex to sata PS converter.


----------



## fljoe

rainbow said:


> Well, it appears to me that I might have bought the wrong thing to do up Series 3 internal drive upgrade.
> 
> I ordered the adapter a couple of wks ago. I finally received the 1T hard drive (WDEVCS) yesterday. I can't see any way of attaching this thiing to the HD. The box does say cable. The sales receipt does, however, say it is a 'cable adepter converter w/auto backup button full power supply.'
> 
> Does anyone have a link, or some words of wisdom, of how one is supposed to actually hook this up? There aren't any good instructions included on how this works...
> 
> I had planned to using my laptop to get the hard drive done (no desktops for me).
> 
> Guess I should have gone the way of a docking station instead. Very frustrating. I am fairly intuitive, but this thing doesn'tmake sense to me!


Let me try and help you here .. The Red SATA cable .. one end should be connected to your hard drive and the other end to the top portion of the SATA to USB adapter. Ther other multicolor cable is the power supply cable, Connect one end to your SATA hard drive and the other end to the power adapter cable end of the SATA to USB adapter. Now connect the USB cable of your adapter to your computer's USB port. Then connect the Power Supply cable of the SATA to USB adapter to a power supply outlet. This should install the necessary drivers on your computer for the adapter you bought and you should be good to prepare the drive for WinMFS.


----------



## MPSAN

Looks like we both posted at the same time...but I believe that for XP Pro SP3 there are no drivers to install.


----------



## rainbow

fljoe said:


> Let me try and help you here .. The Red SATA cable .. one end should be connected to your hard drive and the other end to the top portion of the SATA to USB adapter. Ther other multicolor cable is the power supply cable, Connect one end to your SATA hard drive and the other end to the power adapter cable end of the SATA to USB adapter. Now connect the USB cable of your adapter to your computer's USB port. Then connect the Power Supply cable of the SATA to USB adapter to a power supply outlet. This should install the necessary drivers on your computer for the adapter you bought and you should be good to prepare the drive for WinMFS.


Yeah! Many thanks for your instructions - never would have figured it out.

Now, I am too tired, howover, to deal w/actually hooking it up to my laptop. But it is all hooked together now w/the new HD, ready to go.

Thanks again


----------



## MPSAN

rainbow said:


> Yeah! Many thanks for your instructions - never would have figured it out.
> 
> Now, I am too tired, howover, to deal w/actually hooking it up to my laptop. But it is all hooked together now w/the new HD, ready to go.
> 
> Thanks again


OH...I guess you did not see my message.


----------



## yukit

richsadams said:


> So far two members have successfully upgraded their TiVo HD's with the WD10EARS drives:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7720023#post7720023
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7736641#post7736641
> 
> The first member followed up about a week later saying that all is well.
> 
> It's been more than a month and we'd probably hear about any issues they had, but perhaps they will confirm things are still good?
> 
> However another member is having a problem with his upgrade. It would appear to be a bad sector issue on his original hard drive (he can't get it to fully copy a backup to his new WD10EARS drive) and nothing to do with the EARS model, but you never know.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7801302#post7801302


Just a thought if running WinMFS on WinXP would cause a problem since WinXP is not capable to recognize the 4k block size, but WinMFS would work fine on Vista/Win7 (groks 4k block size)


----------



## dswallow

There should be no issues of recognition of a drive that internally uses 4K block sizes. The issue is with how writes are performed when the drive emulates a 512-byte block size. Think about it... if the drive physically can write only 4K at a time, when you want to write just 512 bytes, you're going to have to read the entire 4K block where the 512 byte block goes, and then write that entire 4K block back out. You'll usually see this referred to as "RMW" or "Read-Modify-Write". To some extent the effect of this should be minimized with write caching, especially considering the likelihood of most writes being sequential, thus never requiring a read-before-write operation. The problem can be compounded if your operating system works with 4K blocks, too, but ends up misaligned such that every 4K write crosses a physical 4K boundary and requires 2 4K block reads and 2 writes to write that single 4K block of data; though again write caching on the drive itself can mitigate this.

But in the worst case, with no write caching going on, and with every write being to a random 512-byte block location, you could see performance amount to as little as 1/4 of what you should otherwise see from a drive.

On the other hand, even 1/4 of the write speed these drives are capable of is more than sufficient for the needs of an HD DVR that's recording two programs at the same time it's playing back a third and even downloading a fourth... and then some. In the case of the Western Digital EARS drives, you're maybe looking at a very-worst-case performance around 20-25MB/second. And with a full HD OTA channel being about 18Mb/s, or under 2.5MB/s, there's quite enough performance there to do what is needed.


----------



## richsadams

dswallow said:


> There should be no issues of recognition of a drive that internally uses 4K block sizes. <snip>


Wow! I couldn't have said it better myself! :up: Well, only knowing enough to be dangerous the fact is I couldn't have said it at all. I know what you said there makes sense and I can follow it for a bit, but my eyes glazed over somewhere along the way. The end bit does make sense so it somewhat (or possibly completely) explains why the WDxxEARS drives work in TiVo's but may give "legitimate" computers some heartburn.

Thanks for that...I think.


----------



## jlib

dt100 said:


> Found it: "Members should avoid the Western Digital WDxxEARS, as they have a unique 4KB physical sector and the TiVo was designed for use on drives with a traditional 512 Byte physical sector." (From first post)


This I think was based on a preliminary comment from Spike last year before how they actually work and the nature of a specific problem (misalignment on XP partitions only) was widely known. Since the TiVo uses unaffected Apple partitions there should be no (and I do not know of any) problems using 4K drives. Any problems with those drives would be unrelated.


----------



## jlib

I can report that whatever fix TiVo did to the XL for the soft reboot issue did not percolate over to the S3 software (and at this point probably won't). Thought for a moment there I might be able to avoid pulling the drive to fix it.


----------



## rainbow

MPSAN said:


> Looks like we both posted at the same time...but I believe that for XP Pro SP3 there are no drivers to install.


Thanks MPSAN as well. I did hook it up to my laptop last night, and my system recognized there was something new, and installed the drivers without my having to use the driver disc that was included w/the adapter.:up:

I am going to try do the boot cd tonight re the wdidle3 thing, just to get that out of the way.

I have a pulled orig 250HD from a series 3 that went bad and am hoping to do a backup/restore of whatever I can get from it. (had bought an original 250G series 3 HD from ebay that someone had upgraded quite a while ago so that one is now working in my S3-stroke of luck that I had that one laying around).

I have an unused, normal, 750G external HD still in a box that I was going to try to use for the backup.

I am now wondering if I can even use that one to download from my old Tivo HD; thinking now that maybe I would just be able to backup/restore to Tivo HDs. Am I correct in that assumption?

If so, i might have to go ahead and get a 2nd adapter...


----------



## richsadams

jlib said:


> I can report that whatever fix TiVo did to the XL for the soft reboot issue did not percolate over to the S3 software (and at this point probably won't). Thought for a moment there I might be able to avoid pulling the drive to fix it.


That's too bad. I thought they might include it in a transparent update. Maybe it'll be thrown in with the next full update...who knows? But I can see why they wouldn't...except perhaps on refurb boxes they use for exchanges. But, still no real reason to spread it to the masses as those drives shouldn't be in Series3 boxes anyway...at least in their view. Can't blame them for not spending any time on it I guess.


----------



## lex3001

richsadams said:


> IIRC folks have successfully used dd to make a bit-for-bit copy. Best of luck and let us know how it goes!


Well I chickened out on using "dd" and instead decided to use trusty ole WinMFS to clone my already upgraded Samsung 1.5TB drive to my shiny new hopefully problem free WD 1.5TB drive.

I followed instructions on WinMFS site for Copying and I did not expand the partition past 1TB when that question came up. I did supersize, just like I did last time.

Now when I first copied my stock drive to the 1.5TB Sammy, I got 180 hours of HD afterwards.

Now I copied my Sammy to my WD (both 1.5TB drives), and now I have 198 hours of HD! Added bonus I guess. So far the drive seems to be working. I'll do some soft boot / cold boot testing one of these nights.

BTW, if anyone is interested, it took about 16-17 hours to do the copy with WinMFS. I use eSATA for the new drive and a USB external case for the old drive. The progress bar in WinMFS seemed to be accurate but the remaining hours was up over a million when I checked 12 hours into it, so I was glad that part was incorrect. I don't know much about what WinMFS does internally, but I know in the past when I have copied large drives with dd I have used buffering to increase the performance 5-10x.


----------



## richsadams

lex3001 said:


> Well I chickened out on using "dd" and instead decided to use trusty ole WinMFS to clone my already upgraded Samsung 1.5TB drive to my shiny new hopefully problem free WD 1.5TB drive.


Awesome! :up:


----------



## MPSAN

rainbow said:


> Thanks MPSAN as well. I did hook it up to my laptop last night, and my system recognized there was something new, and installed the drivers without my having to use the driver disc that was included w/the adapter.:up:
> 
> I am going to try do the boot cd tonight re the wdidle3 thing, just to get that out of the way.
> 
> I have a pulled orig 250HD from a series 3 that went bad and am hoping to do a backup/restore of whatever I can get from it. (had bought an original 250G series 3 HD from ebay that someone had upgraded quite a while ago so that one is now working in my S3-stroke of luck that I had that one laying around).
> 
> I have an unused, normal, 750G external HD still in a box that I was going to try to use for the backup.
> 
> I am now wondering if I can even use that one to download from my old Tivo HD; thinking now that maybe I would just be able to backup/restore to Tivo HDs. Am I correct in that assumption?
> 
> If so, i might have to go ahead and get a 2nd adapter...


Well, I believe that a backup to a windows drive (external drive letter) may only be available in truncated backup. I do not remember. That would be a great WINmfs option, however, as it would allow a single drive upgrade even with a full copy. I think that in the days of "smaller HDD's" the idea was that a full backup of a 160 or 250 GB drive would fill the normal Windows drive. Nowadays who has ONLY 160-250 GB drives. The wdidle3 part will depend on the boot cd supporting USB as DOS does not without drivers. The ISO may have those, however. Just try it.


----------



## MrMike1876

MrMike1876 said:


> Thank you for the advice. I will try that to see if there is an issue. I tried the diagnostic Kickstart 54 test to see if there was an issue with the drives - and they seemed to pass those test.
> 
> I will try and see if this endless restart happens after I disconnect the External Hard Drive.
> 
> I guess I will have to redo the Marry process. To be sure.
> 
> To answer your question - i was checking all the settings to see if it connected to the tivo service - and it said it failed...i initially connected the adapter incorrectly.
> 
> -mike


UPDATE:

Before I tried to divorce the Tivo - I unplugged the esata cable and unplugged the unit and restarted the unit. Then the unit worked perfectly for approximately a week. And today the restarts started up again - screwing up my recordings. And when I tried to fix it - I got the endless restarts. I did all the Kickstarts to see if the unit will repair itself. The Kickstart 54 diagnostic test said both HD passed the tests - my upgraded internal and the WD 1 TB DVR Expander.

So I officially divorced the 1 TB DVR Expander and now the unit is working fine. No more BS Restart.

I think the problem is either the ESATA Cable or the Actual WD 1 TB DVR Expander. I think I should get a replacement from WD - rather than remarrying this unit.

Any other advice on this issue - looks like from reading previous posts there is a problem with these 1 TB DVR Expander. Is there any other unit that works better than this one?? The official tivo verified version?

thanks - michael


----------



## richsadams

MrMike1876 said:


> So I officially divorced the 1 TB DVR Expander and now the unit is working fine. No more BS Restart.


Hi Michael...sorry to hear about that. It could be the cable. The recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable is less than $11. Might be worth a shot.

Otherwise AFAIK you're the first to report an issue with the 1TB WD My DVR Expander. The 500GB models appear to have a lifespan of about 12 to 18 months which isn't so good. About half the failures are the hard drive itself and about half are due to the enclosure (the drive may be fine, but something in the enclosure such as the bridge or chipset is failing.

If it's within the 1 year warranty (and if you try a new cable and it doesn't work) I'd certainly get an RMA from WD.

IIRC you have one of the original TiVo Series3's with an upgraded internal drive (750GB?). You do have the option of using other eSATA drives. If you have a read through the first post on this sticky you'll find some recommendations for other expansion drives or DIY. I know a lot of folks are using the relatively inexpensive 1TB Fantom Green eSATA drives. IIRC they have a two-year warranty. Others are putting together their own using Antec's MX-1 enclosure and one of the "green" drives from WD, Seagate or Hitachi. Most bare drives have a three-year warranty. Since you've upgraded your internal drive you'll still have to go through the marriage process with any drive but you do have more options.

Thanks for the post and let us know how it goes.


----------



## MrMike1876

richsadams said:


> Hi Michael...sorry to hear about that. It could be the cable. The recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable is less than $11. Might be worth a shot.
> 
> Otherwise AFAIK you're the first to report an issue with the 1TB WD My DVR Expander. The 500GB models appear to have a lifespan of about 12 to 18 months which isn't so good. About half the failures are the hard drive itself and about half are due to the enclosure (the drive may be fine, but something in the enclosure such as the bridge or chipset is failing.
> 
> If it's within the 1 year warranty (and if you try a new cable and it doesn't work) I'd certainly get an RMA from WD.
> 
> IIRC you have one of the original TiVo Series3's with an upgraded internal drive (750GB?). You do have the option of using other eSATA drives. If you have a read through the first post on this sticky you'll find some recommendations for other expansion drives or DIY. I know a lot of folks are using the relatively inexpensive 1TB Fantom Green eSATA drives. IIRC they have a two-year warranty. Others are putting together their own using Antec's MX-1 enclosure and one of the "green" drives from WD, Seagate or Hitachi. Most bare drives have a three-year warranty. Since you've upgraded your internal drive you'll still have to go through the marriage process with any drive but you do have more options.
> 
> Thanks for the post and let us know how it goes.


Thanks - here is another update:

I went ahead to call wd to have them replace the drive. They told me that before I do that - they asked me if the DVR expander was connected directly
to the outlet. Well mine was on the power surge strip. So I connected it directly to the outlet.

Ok I followed there direction. Looks like I don't have the restart issue. Looks like I am back to where I was - before I married the HD - since I had to reformat. The Tivo does not recognize the format - so it looks like i have to do the upgrade process all over again - I was hoping to avoid opening that tivo up again and connecting my tivo's upgraded internal hard drive to my computer simultaneously with the esata dvr expander to the winmfs program.

Is there away to avoid opening the TIVO and just fixing the external hd so they would marry properly - since i already did this with the internal drive?

thanks for the advice.


----------



## richsadams

MrMike1876 said:


> Thanks - here is another update: <snip>


Ugh. Unfortunately if you divorced the Expander you'll need to remarry it again.

During their troubleshooting process TiVo goes through the "is it connected directly to the wall?" process as well. Seems surge protectors can be problematic and apologies for not mentioning that. The very best thing to do would be to have both on a UPS like this one. That will ensure that your data doesn't get corrupted and of course protect them from ultimate damage from surges, spikes, failures, brown-outs, etc. Very inexpensive insurance.

At least you have a fighting chance now. Hopefully that will be that. Keep us posted!


----------



## taylor0987

Hey folks, I just upgraded my TiVo HD using a WD15EVDS. The drive had a Feb. 2010 date on it so I ran wdidle3. I copied my recordings and it took about 30-35 minutes to complete. Everything worked fine and now my TiVo is showing 198 HD hours and 1733 SD hours. 

It's just in time because comcast "world of more" is giving us 40 more HD channels on April 14. 

Thanks to the people who posted in this thread and made such a clear upgrade guide. I really appreciate it.


----------



## richsadams

taylor0987 said:


> Hey folks, I just upgraded my TiVo HD using a WD15EVDS.


Welcome to the "club" and enjoy! :up:


----------



## JHawk

Long time lurker...thanks for all the great info. Just added this external hard drive to my Series 3
Toshiba - 1TB External USB 2.0/eSATA Portable Hard Drive - Black... Model: PH3100U-1EXB. $99 @ Best Buy. (Sorry not enough posts to link).
Works perfect.....Tivo recognized it right away.3 year warranty is a plus.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

JHawk said:


> (Sorry not enough posts to link).


I think the forum software needs a few tweaks. If you've been registered for 7+ years, I think it's OK to let you include a link even if you haven't made the requisite number of posts.


----------



## richsadams

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I think the forum software needs a few tweaks. If you've been registered for 7+ years, I think it's OK to let you include a link even if you haven't made the requisite number of posts.


Agreed...that's been brought up a number of times. Members (new or seven year veterans) have to post 10 times before they can see text links or post a link. I understand wanting to keep spammers to a minimum but 10x? Makes no sense IMHO.


----------



## richsadams

JHawk said:


> Long time lurker...thanks for all the great info. Just added this external hard drive to my Series 3
> Toshiba - 1TB External USB 2.0/eSATA Portable Hard Drive - Black... Model: PH3100U-1EXB. $99 @ Best Buy. (Sorry not enough posts to link).
> Works perfect.....Tivo recognized it right away.3 year warranty is a plus.


Sweet! A three-year warranty is unusual...and very welcome. It says that it's a 5400 RPM drive so it should run fairly cool. Please let us know if there are any noise or heat issues. Otherwise, enjoy!

BTW, here are links to the OP's new eSATA drive at BB and Amazon:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Toshiba...48056&skuId=9402112&st=PH3100U-1EXB&cp=1&lp=1

http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-eSATA...U-1EXB/dp/B002HWRK66/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top


----------



## bciocco

I seem to be seeing some successful upgrades with a few drives that are not on the compatible list. 
Has the list been updated?
Should some drives be added with the instructions on how to make them compatible?
Is there a "best" drive for an upgrade (low noise / reliable/ fairly straight forward install)?

I am leaning toward the Hitachi and on the fence about whether to use a single or dual dock. I am also looking at the APRICORN ADW-USB-KIT. I am not sure if it will do two drives.


----------



## dt100

bciocco said:


> I seem to be seeing some successful upgrades with a few drives that are not on the compatible list.
> Has the list been updated?
> Should some drives be added with the instructions on how to make them compatible?
> Is there a "best" drive for an upgrade (low noise / reliable/ fairly straight forward install)?
> 
> I am leaning toward the Hitachi and on the fence about whether to use a single or dual dock. I am also looking at the APRICORN ADW-USB-KIT. I am not sure if it will do two drives.


Here is my reasoning why I ordered the Hitachi 7k1000.c as an internal drive for my HD. This might help someone else. Too many problems reported with the Seagates. Why take a chance on a Seagate when the WD and the Hitachi are known to work. I did not want to take a chance with a WD EARS drive. The cost difference between the 1.5 TB WD EADS and either the Hitachi or the WD EADS (1.0 TB) was not worth it for me. 157 hours of recording is enough for me. So, that left the decision between the 1.0 TB EADS and the Hitachi. From prior posts, the noise and heat are about the same. The Tivo is not in a bedroom, so if the Hitachi is a tiny bit louder than the WD that will not be a problem. I do not have easy access to a computer that I can open and connect the WD directly to in order to turn off the intelipark [sic]. The noise level on the Hitachi can be turned down via USB. Finally, I found the Hitachi about $10 cheaper than the WD, so I can buy a drink to celebrate the upgrade! 
I ordered two really inexpensive USB to Sata adapters with power on Ebay. Hope I don't burn my house down. Other than for the upgrade, I don't really have a use for a usb/sata adapter. If I did, I probably would buy a docking station.


----------



## bciocco

Are those the eForcity adapters? 
Have you done the upgrade yet?
Did they work OK?


----------



## will792

dt100 said:


> Here is my reasoning why I ordered the Hitachi 7k1000.c as an internal drive for my HD. This might help someone else. Too many problems reported with the Seagates. Why take a chance on a Seagate when the WD and the Hitachi are known to work. I did not want to take a chance with a WD EARS drive. The cost difference between the 1.5 TB WD EADS and either the Hitachi or the WD EADS (1.0 TB) was not worth it for me. 157 hours of recording is enough for me. So, that left the decision between the 1.0 TB EADS and the Hitachi. From prior posts, the noise and heat are about the same. The Tivo is not in a bedroom, so if the Hitachi is a tiny bit louder than the WD that will not be a problem. I do not have easy access to a computer that I can open and connect the WD directly to in order to turn off the intelipark [sic]. The noise level on the Hitachi can be turned down via USB. Finally, I found the Hitachi about $10 cheaper than the WD, so I can buy a drink to celebrate the upgrade!
> I ordered two really inexpensive USB to Sata adapters with power on Ebay. Hope I don't burn my house down. Other than for the upgrade, I don't really have a use for a usb/sata adapter. If I did, I probably would buy a docking station.


Samsung F3 should be under consideration as well. There are posts of successful S3 upgrade with 1TB F3 and the drive seems to get good reviews. The "problem" with 7k1000.c is that it is 7200rpm drive with somewhat higher heat dissipation than most 5400rpm drives.

Personally I ordered 7k1000.c which would replace 1TB WD EADS in WHS (Windows Home Server). The EADS would go into Tivo (to replace failed WD 750GB AACS).


----------



## richsadams

will792 said:


> Samsung F3 should be under consideration as well. There are posts of successful S3 upgrade with 1TB F3 and the drive seems to get good reviews. The "problem" with 7k1000.c is that it is 7200rpm drive with somewhat higher heat dissipation than most 5400rpm drives.
> 
> Personally I ordered 7k1000.c which would replace 1TB WD EADS in WHS (Windows Home Server). The EADS would go into Tivo (to replace failed WD 750GB AACS).


I know some folks have successfully used the Sammy's but I and a number of others also had issues with them...unknown as to why they didn't work or failed soon after because they worked fine in computers later. Based on that I'd be cautious about using them and probably wouldn't recommend that they be placed on the recommended list.

I have three of the Hitachi's linked above, one running as a backup drive and two in a NAS. 7200RPM is overkill for TiVo no question. However unless they're under very heavy load in the NAS they run surprisingly cool...under 37c on average and never over 47c. It's a bit apples and oranges, but I'd expect them to do quite well in TiVo. Perhaps some of the folks that are using them in TiVo can post the operating temps. I was surprised how quiet they were out of the box as well...especially compared to one that I have that's a couple of years old (sounds like a thrashing machine). The WD drives in our TiVo's have been flawless but I wouldn't hesitate to use one of these Hitachi's in the future.

NOTE: If you do opt for the Hitachi, they are not all created equal (some are very loud and run hot) so be SURE to order the HITACHI Deskstar HD31000 IDK/7K:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145287


----------



## dt100

Rich: Good to hear the reassuring words on the Hitachi. Buyer&#8217;s remorse was setting in.
I thought I ordered the wrong Hitachi drive. I think the one you linked is the retail box version of the 7k1000.c. I ordered the "bare drive," and one of the part numbers on the drive is the the H3d1000 you linked- HDS721010CLA332.

If I have any problems with the Hitachi, is the EVDS preferred over the EADS? (I would have to use my computer at work to disable the intelliseek - not my preference).

Bciocco: I have not received the adapters yet, but the one you linked is not the one I ordered. I went really cheap. I got two, thinking I would hedge my bets and use one for each drive. I got one from 700store and one from koo-webweb. I&#8217;ll report back after I get them and see if they work. They are being shipped from Hong Kong, so it will be a while.


----------



## aaronwt

I've been using the old Hitachi 1TB drive models in four of my TiVos for a long time now. the old 1TB drives had five platters, the new ones have two or three.
Even the five platter version is quiet as long as you adjust the acoustic management. And those five platter ones run hotter than the WD green drives. But, just like the WD green drives in my other five TiVos, The Hitachis have had no problems. They have been rock solid like the WD green drives.


----------



## JHawk

richsadams said:


> Sweet! A three-year warranty is unusual...and very welcome. It says that it's a 5400 RPM drive so it should run fairly cool. Please let us know if there are any noise or heat issues. Otherwise, enjoy!
> 
> BTW, here are links to the OP's new eSATA drive at BB and Amazon:
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Toshiba...48056&skuId=9402112&st=PH3100U-1EXB&cp=1&lp=1
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-eSATA...U-1EXB/dp/B002HWRK66/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top


Thanks Rich for the links. I'll post a few more times so I can do Big Boy stuff

The drive is extremely quiet and put off very little heat--I do have it well ventilated.

FWIW...I received a 12% off coupon from Best Buy today. Took it to my local BB and got a price adjustment so the drive was $88. Makes it a great deal IMHO.


----------



## richsadams

dt100 said:


> I thought I ordered the wrong Hitachi drive. I think the one you linked is the retail box version of the 7k1000.c. I ordered the "bare drive," and one of the part numbers on the drive is the the H3d1000 you linked- HDS721010CLA332.
> 
> If I have any problems with the Hitachi, is the EVDS preferred over the EADS? (I would have to use my computer at work to disable the intelliseek - not my preference).


You're correct, the link is to the retail box...the 7k1000.*c* is the same drive - the "c" suffix is the key. The7k1000 is the one with a much higher/louder acoustic spec.

As aaronwt mentions, you can set the AAM to 128 on the Hitachi using HDDScan and it will make it even more quiet.

The WDxxEVDS would be preferable because it's a DVR dedicated drive.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## richsadams

JHawk said:


> FWIW...I received a 12% off coupon from Best Buy today. Took it to my local BB and got a price adjustment so the drive was $88. Makes it a great deal IMHO.


Kinda makes me wish I needed an external drive!


----------



## dt100

Now I just read there is a cinemastar Hitachi drive and a deskstar drive, both model 7k1000.c. The cinemastar starts with HCS in the model number. According to the Hitachi website, the cinemastar models are designed for DVR and 24/7 use. The cinemaster drive is really expensive for a 1 tb drive (almost $200). Is there really a difference? I have seen other companies sell the exact same product with two different names and marketing materials.
Thanks


----------



## richsadams

dt100 said:


> Now I just read there is a cinemastar Hitachi drive and a deskstar drive, both model 7k1000.c. The cinemastar starts with HCS in the model number. According to the Hitachi website, the cinemastar models are designed for DVR and 24/7 use. The cinemaster drive is really expensive for a 1 tb drive (almost $200). Is there really a difference? I have seen other companies sell the exact same product with two different names and marketing materials.
> Thanks


There are a number of features that the Cinemastar line offers (listed here). With a couple of exceptions, TiVo cannot make use of any of them. Other than the AAM already being set to 128, there's really no advantage. IIRC there are a few folks here that were early adopters of those drives, but AFAIK no one has been using them recently...likely because of the higher cost.


----------



## bciocco

I ordered the Hitachi and the dual dock from Newegg. With free shipping, it came in at just under $125 and I should have them in three days.

Then I looked at my Buy.com email and saw this dock for $21.99 ($31.99 - $10 rebate) and free shipping. I canceled the order, and ordered the dock from buy.com and the Drive above from Newegg. The docks look identical to me, except for the branding.

I have already downloaded the tools. The TiVo should have a new, big drive by next week.

My initial thinking was that I wouldn't have a lot of use for the dock when I am done. I have seen those SATA drives on Woot and thought, "That's a good deal; I just cant use a SATA." Now that I think about it, this dock may be more expensive than I thought. I may use it to run a backup drive.


----------



## rainbow

bciocco said:


> Anyone on the fence and shopping for a dock, I saw this dual dock in my Buy.com sale email this morning, for the price of a single dock or a pair of adapters for that matter. I would have liked to have seen it before I placed my order at Newegg. $21.99 for a dual dock is half the price of the one I bought.


Whew..-wish this was around a couple of days ago. I just bought thru ebay a couple of days ago a 2nd usb/sata-ide adapter which I will have to wait a week or so to get. I was short-sighted when I started this upgrade thing and only initially got one of them. Since I want to try to transfer recordings from one removed S3 HD to a new 1T HD, I found out I did need 2 of them.

Oh well....

Thanks for posting that link - maybe it will help some others. :up:


----------



## lex3001

I replaced my Samsung 1.5TB HD154UI ecogreen drive in my TiVo HD with a Western Digital WD15EARS after using the utility to fix the Intellipark as advised here.

Now I do not have any problems. I have done a warm boot and cold boot without any issues.

I would highly recommend AGAINST the Samsung ecogreen drives -- cold booting often fails completely until you put the drive in a computer and back in the TiVo again. Not sure why but they do not have a utility to change any standby etc settings.


----------



## Mr. Broflovski

bkdtv said:


> If you were to replace the built-in TiVo drive with a 2.0 TB drive, the full 2.0 TB would be usable on a TivoHD XL, but only 1.26 TB would be usable on the TivoHD.


I have created an image that is useable with WinMFS and is not subject to these limitations, and will work with hard drives up to 2.0TB in size. Any interested parties with a TivoHD and hard drive > 1TB are welcome to PM me.

***EDIT : 5/16***

I will no longer be offering this image via PM.

Several community members have a copy at this point, if you are in need of a copy, please make a public request and I'm sure someone will help (please don't threadcrap all over this thread though, there are image begging threads here).


----------



## richsadams

Mr. Broflovski said:


> I have created an image that is useable with WinMFS and is not subject to these limitations, and will work with hard drives up to 2.0TB in size. Any interested parties with a TivoHD and hard drive > 1TB are welcome to PM me.


Welcome to the forum. Sounds interesting. Any TiVo Pioneers out there? If so...be sure to report back!


----------



## RayChuang88

Alas, I read through this message thread and it's about as clear as mud on finding an external eSATA drive that works with a TiVo HD XL box.

What is the _current_ known list of compatible external drives that can plug into a TiVo HD XL box and be ready for use without having to void the TiVo warranty?


----------



## richsadams

RayChuang88 said:


> Alas, I read through this message thread and it's about as clear as mud on finding an external eSATA drive that works with a TiVo HD XL box.
> 
> What is the _current_ known list of compatible external drives that can plug into a TiVo HD XL box and be ready for use without having to void the TiVo warranty?


Per Section III in the first post on this sticky (which is up to date) the only approved eSATA drive that can be connected via plug and play to a TiVo HD or TiVo HDXL is the 500GB or 1TB Western Digital My DVR Expander.


----------



## MPSAN

I swapped 2 of my 3 THD's to trouble shoot an MRV issue. All was OK. I just now went to swap them back and the one that I added the 1TB drive to 7 months ago is in the welcome powering up-just a few minutes more-and back to the welcome powering up loop!

If I try a truncated backup, and then a restore is there any way to keep my shows on the 1TB drive? I can not imagine what went wrong! Why would TiVo ever create a unit that can not be powered down?

****UPDATE***

Well, I still have the same question but the 4th time I tried the reboot, and while I was typing this, it came up. Still I wonder what I can do before I try the swap again. I guess I could copy the shows to my PC, or another THD, but If I copy to my PC XP PRO) can I move them back to the THD? I have TiVo Desktop and TivoPlaylist.

***UPDATE2***

It died again in the welcome powering up loop! It looks like it will come up for 10 minutes or so. Is there a kickstart I can use to see and fix, a sector in case it is bad?

TIA


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> It died again in the welcome powering up loop! It looks like it will come up for 10 minutes or so. Is there a kickstart I can use to see and fix, a sector in case it is bad?TIA


Ugh, that doesn't sound pleasant. Before doing anything I would check all of the connections (inside and out). Moving it may have jogged something loose.

Otherwise I'd go ahead and run Kickstart 57 first and then Kickstart 58 if there's no improvement. KS54 will run a SMART test to see if it can find something wrong if all else fails. Kickstarts:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

It's possible that while moving it around the heads crashed into the platter I guess...maybe just a few bad sectors? Maybe KS57 or KS58 will fix things up. Unfortunately there's no way to "see" what's going on or what happened when it's done, but it's worth a try.

Hope that helps!


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Ugh, that doesn't sound pleasant. Before doing anything I would check all of the connections (inside and out). Moving it may have jogged something loose.
> 
> Otherwise I'd go ahead and run Kickstart 57 first and then Kickstart 58 if there's no improvement. KS54 will run a SMART test to see if it can find something wrong if all else fails. Kickstarts:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2
> 
> It's possible that while moving it around the heads crashed into the platter I guess...maybe just a few bad sectors? Maybe KS57 or KS58 will fix things up. Unfortunately there's no way to "see" what's going on or what happened when it's done, but it's worth a try.
> 
> Hope that helps!


Thank you Rich. Will these KS's kill the data?
I restarted this again with the LAN cable out and it has been running for an hour now. There is enough guide data there so I may let it go this way 'til tomorrow and see if it records OK tonight.

If it does, I can unplug the LAN cables from the other 2 THD's and plug in the cable from this "bad" THD. If that is OK, I do not know what happened. I always worry when stuff like this happens. Any way to copy the shows if I do get it going and then put them back again?

I was VERY careful when moving the TiVo. OH, the heads always "crash" into the platter when you power down.

P.S. Do the first 2 KickStarts require the LAN be connected in case it will work without the LAN?

P.P.S. I have had 3 ReplayTV units that ran for YEARS without so much as a reboot...I never expected the THD's to require so much attention.


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Thank you Rich. Will these KS's kill the data?
> I restarted this again with the LAN cable out and it has been running for an hour now. There is enough guide data there so I may let it go this way 'til tomorrow and see if it records OK tonight.
> 
> If it does, I can unplug the LAN cables from the other 2 THD's and plug in the cable from this "bad" THD. If that is OK, I do not know what happened. I always worry when stuff like this happens. Any way to copy the shows if I do get it going and then put them back again?
> 
> I was VERY careful when moving the TiVo. OH, the heads always "crash" into the platter when you power down.
> 
> P.S. Do the first 2 KickStarts require the LAN be connected in case it will work without the LAN?
> 
> P.P.S. I have had 3 ReplayTV units that ran for YEARS without so much as a reboot...I never expected the THD's to require so much attention.


The only data the Kickstarts would affect would be data on sectors that they opt to isolate (recordings)...it wouldn't affect the boot partitions.

If things are going well w/o the network connection it sounds like an I/O error correction issue. Might be something in the network is causing problems, or it could be a hard drive issue...hopefully not.

It's starting to look ugly outside, so it's a good day to stay in and tinker I guess. I sold my TiVo HD to a valued TCF member in anticipation of the arrival of the Premiere XL so I'm busy running a Clear and Delete on the 1TB and OEM drives...then it's off to UPS. Party, party, party! 

Keep us posted!


----------



## Tivogre

Mr. Broflovski said:


> I have created an image that is useable with WinMFS and is not subject to these limitations, and will work with hard drives up to 2.0TB in size. Any interested parties with a TivoHD and hard drive > 1TB are welcome to PM me.


I don't know if it's the same guy, but I have been testing a composite image (Tivo XL partitions and Tivo HD software) for an "online friend" for about a month now.

It has been running flawlessly on a 1.5 TB drive, yielding 237 / 2072 (HD / SD).

Upgrade couldn't have been easier - use the provided image and WinMFS on a blank drive.

I haven't tried it yet on a full 2TB.

Partition map shows:

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected]( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected]( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected]( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected]( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected]( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected]( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected]( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected]( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected]( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected]( 417.7G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected]( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 512.3G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected]( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected]( 465.7G)


----------



## chrishicks

I'd be willing to grab a 2TB drive and test this out if I can use it in my S3.


----------



## ssolomo

I finally bit the bullet and bought an MX-1 and eSATA cable to expand my original TiVo HD (2+ years old now). Also have a 1TB WD drive (pre-Intellipark). I just reread the FAQ and learned now I have to open the TiVo box, take the HDD out and use it to help format the new drive? Did I miss something, or didn't previously you just needed to format the new drive before attaching a new external eSATA, even though unsupported?


----------



## richsadams

ssolomo said:


> I finally bit the bullet and bought an MX-1 and eSATA cable to expand my original TiVo HD (2+ years old now). Also have a 1TB WD drive (pre-Intellipark). I just reread the FAQ and learned now I have to open the TiVo box, take the HDD out and use it to help format the new drive? Did I miss something, or didn't previously you just needed to format the new drive before attaching a new external eSATA, even though unsupported?


Yes, you read right. An original (unmodified) TiVo Series3 is able to accept "unapproved" eSATA drives via plug and play. However the TiVo HD and HDXL cannot. In order to add an eSATA drive to your TiVo HD you will need to remove the internal drive and connect it along with your new drive to a PC and run winMFS or MFSTools to "marry" them. Section IV, #10 of the FAQ has the instructions to do that.

FWIW since it requires opening the box and pulling the internal drive, most folks simply upgrade the internal drive (only a few more clicks in winMFS) and put the original on the shelf as a backup. I don't know if you really need the extra 21 hours of HD recording space, but if not, that would be my recommendation (providing you could return the MX-1 or use it elsewhere).


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> The only data the Kickstarts would affect would be data on sectors that they opt to isolate (recordings)...it wouldn't affect the boot partitions.
> 
> If things are going well w/o the network connection it sounds like an I/O error correction issue. Might be something in the network is causing problems, or it could be a hard drive issue...hopefully not.
> 
> It's starting to look ugly outside, so it's a good day to stay in and tinker I guess. I sold my TiVo HD to a valued TCF member in anticipation of the arrival of the Premiere XL so I'm busy running a Clear and Delete on the 1TB and OEM drives...then it's off to UPS. Party, party, party!
> 
> Keep us posted!


Well, the network has been fine. I had removed the LAN cable from all 3 THD's and did a hard reboot...after swapping the BedRoom and FamilyRoom THD's. The FamilyRoom has the 1TB drive. Anyway, when done, all 3 saw each other and all was OK. So this all started this morning when I put the Bedroom THD back in the BR and moved the FamilyRoom one back. The FR one just rebooted. I switched again, and the FamilyRoom did boot up, but went to reboot 10 minutes later. I removed the LAN cable and did a reboot and it has been up for several hours now. I guess I will wait 'til tomorrow before trying to plug the LAN back in.

Anyway, it is not too bad out up here...some sun and some clouds.


----------



## dt100

I have a few really basic questions about testing a new drive. For a new drive connected via USB, is the HDDscan "read" and the "verify" tests all I need to test the drive for problems before doing an upgrade? Should I also run a test with Seatools? Which one? Thanks


----------



## rainbow

OK, so I had orig ordered 1 usb to sata/ide adapter. Once it arrived I realized I needed a 2nd one so I could transfer image, and old recordings over to the new 1t harddrive.

Received the 2nd one yesterday (ordered from a different vendor than the 1st).

Hooked them up and I started to smell ... burning... from the old HD.

Granted, the old Tivo hd had problems while in my series 3 tivo, and so I had replaced it with one that I had bought thru Ebay, which is performing well in my tivo right now.

I guess I shoudl assume that my old HD is now literally ... TOAST.

Now, I am a bit worried about pulling out the working one now to back up the tivo program, just in case the adapter is somehow malfunctioning - I would not want that one to be toasted as well.

Any comments about this scenerio - has it happened to someone else?


----------



## MPSAN

Well, Rich...it is broken...and it is TiVo supports fault.  They were the ones who told me to swap them. All was OK and I was told to swap them back! When I did one of them never came back up! That is the 1TB one so I will put the original 160GB drive in there and see what happens. Will be a good test as it still had the data for Comcast and now I have a FIOS M-Card. I bet I still get the reboots and that the THD hardware messed up on a power off!

All my THD's are lifetime. If they would let me I wonder what a good deal would be if they would let me go to a Premier XL? I bet they still would want >$200!


----------



## richsadams

rainbow said:


> Now, I am a bit worried about pulling out the working one now to back up the tivo program, just in case the adapter is somehow malfunctioning - I would not want that one to be toasted as well.
> 
> Any comments about this scenerio - has it happened to someone else?


Ah, I love the smell of burning electronics in the morning. Kidding.  That's a bit alarming. I can't remember what kind of adapters you bought, but do they also power the drive? The regular SATA data connection shouldn't be problematic, however it's possible the power source could be delivering too much juice. I used to always run a separate power connection from the PC's power source to power the drives I was upgrading.

I agree, I don't think I'd risk frying another hard drive. Instead I'd probably opt for one of the dual drive docking stations. I have a Thermaltake or IIRC bciocco posted a Calvary dock earlier.

Your call of course. Saving a few bucks is always a good idea, but consider the cost of your drives.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


----------



## rainbow

thanks Rich for the feedback. I notice that the orig usb-stata/adapter has a power supply listed as model gx34w-5-12. The one I got yesterday has a power , which was the onle attached to the now toasted hd - gx26w-5-12 supply 

I think I am going to order the dual bay dock that was posted.


----------



## richsadams

dt100 said:


> I have a few really basic questions about testing a new drive. For a new drive connected via USB, is the HDDscan "read" and the "verify" tests all I need to test the drive for problems before doing an upgrade? Should I also run a test with Seatools? Which one? Thanks


All of the drive manufacturers have a free diagnostic program you can download such as Seatools, WD Lifeguard, etc. Or there are third-party programs that will do the same thing.

Most have a "quick" test which (as I understand it) run some basic tests and/or SMART tests which include drive data integrity and a few physical sample areas of the drive platters. That's usually fine, but it can miss problems. AFAIK the most comprehensive and thorough test is a full/extended read/write/read diagnostic. Like it sounds, the program reads the entire drive (as well as running some other integrity tests) then writes all zeros to the entire drive and then reads the entire drive (and runs the other tests) again. Depending on the size of the drive that can take 12 hours or more, but it's time well spent IMHO. That way you will not only have some peace of mind, but if it does find some issues you can easily capture them to make your case for an RMA. I had a Seagate drive that passed their "quick test" once, but failed the extended test. I filed a claim on their website with the drive diagnostic info and they didn't even blink when I asked for a replacement. They might not have blinked anyway, but I felt good about being able to tell them exactly what was wrong.

My two cents...and remember you get what you pay for here.  Happy upgrading!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Well, Rich...it is broken...and it is TiVo supports fault.  They were the ones who told me to swap them. All was OK and I was told to swap them back! When I did one of them never came back up! That is the 1TB one so I will put the original 160GB drive in there and see what happens. Will be a good test as it still had the data for Comcast and now I have a FIOS M-Card. I bet I still get the reboots and that the THD hardware messed up on a power off!
> 
> All my THD's are lifetime. If they would let me I wonder what a good deal would be if they would let me go to a Premier XL? I bet they still would want >$200!


Aurgh! Well, what's your favorite slogan..."If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is!"?  What a pain, and maybe for nothing. Guess it's good they're covering these things, but what an inconvenience. Anyway, it'll be interesting to see how it turns out. You always have some great if not rare and unusual stories to tell. 

BTW, keep pushing them for the Premiere...can't hurt!


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Aurgh! Well, what's your favorite slogan..."If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is!"?  What a pain, and maybe for nothing. Guess it's good they're covering these things, but what an inconvenience. Anyway, it'll be interesting to see how it turns out. You always have some great if not rare and unusual stories to tell.
> 
> BTW, keep pushing them for the Premiere...can't hurt!


Great, Rich.

I just put the Image back on the 160GB drive that was in that box, but it was an Image with Comcast. It will be great to see how the FIOS reacts!

I am worried as this is the same type of issue the Bedroom unit had, but it is in no way related. Perhaps a normal Premier would be OK. Not sure if they get picky if the THD unit would be $49? I do have lifetime. I will never understand why TiVo makes you CRASH a unit!


----------



## pgifford

Hi,

It looks like I fall under category 1.5 at the start of this thread, "Replace a dead or failing TiVo drive" (my Series 3 reboots itself when I try to select certain menu items, and at other random times too) and I have a couple of questions.

1. Am looking in the wrong place or did InstantCake double in price since the thread was updated a month ago? When I go to the dvrupgrade.com site it says the price is $39.99; at the top of this thread it's listed as $19.99.

2. I know they've been around a long time but is the product legit? How can they sell CDs of TiVo software? It seems akin to someone selling a Windows recovery CD with a copy of Windows on it. How come other companies aren't selling a similar product if anyone can do it?

3. I assume MFS Tools is not recommended in my situation because it looks like the drive has gone bad and a good copy may not be possible. Is this a correct assumption?

Thanks,

Paul


----------



## bciocco

You may be able to image your drive before it totally tanks. 
Otherwise, I think instantcake is the best and easiest solution.


----------



## richsadams

pgifford said:


> Hi,
> 
> It looks like I fall under category 1.5 at the start of this thread, "Replace a dead or failing TiVo drive" (my Series 3 reboots itself when I try to select certain menu items, and at other random times too) and I have a couple of questions.
> 
> 1. Am looking in the wrong place or did InstantCake double in price since the thread was updated a month ago? When I go to the dvrupgrade.com site it says the price is $39.99; at the top of this thread it's listed as $19.99.
> 
> 2. I know they've been around a long time but is the product legit? How can they sell CDs of TiVo software? It seems akin to someone selling a Windows recovery CD with a copy of Windows on it. How come other companies aren't selling a similar product if anyone can do it?
> 
> 3. I assume MFS Tools is not recommended in my situation because it looks like the drive has gone bad and a good copy may not be possible. Is this a correct assumption?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Paul


Welcome to the forum...wish it were under better circumstances for you. Instant Cake is indeed a very legitimate program so no worries there. The IC OS is always an older version. However once installed TiVo automatically updates to the most current version. I hadn't noticed the price increase until now...but yes, it does appear to have gone up.

I would give winMFS or MFSTools a try first. Generally the issues arise with bad sectors or a few other issues that can cause hard drives to fail. If it's booting up properly (not hanging) odds are the OS partitions are solid. There's no harm trying. If you run into issues with booting up, then yes, IC would be a good alternative. Know that using IC will essentially make your TiVo "new" again. You'd have to have your cable cards paired (unless you're on FIOS), run Guided Setup again, etc. If you're able to use a truncated backup of your current hard drive's image all of those things will remain intact.

Hope that helps and best of luck!


----------



## MPSAN

Rich...as an update, I did the restore of my original backup of my 160GB drive and put it back in. It did reboot and, so far, the lineup was Comcast, but it saw my FIOS M-Card OK. This is still going! It takes so long to finish when the last connect was August 09! Once that finished it did detect a lineup change! WOW, it has been running and running in the prep stage I can hear the HDD as I have the cover open...there are sure a lot of stations to index! I hope this all works! I actually turned the TV off to avoid burn in!


----------



## ssolomo

Thanks Rich. You read my mind - if I already had to open the box, why not just go ahead and replace the drive since I can copy the entire existing drive over? I'm out of warranty anyways and our media cabinet is pretty crowded (plus always looking to save some wattage - no need to have additional drain on the battery backup for the TiVo - it's there because we have frequent power outages in our neighborhood and only lasts about 40 minutes, which is enough).

At least Amazon will take the MX-1 back (just pay for return shipping) - I just bought a NAS for our home network and have a cheapo external HDD enclosure already for permanent backups.


----------



## ssolomo

Separate drive question - I have a sealed (unopened) WD10EACS - 1.0TB model - manuf date 31 Oct 2008. That model is not listed on the FAQ. I believe it was an early model of the "Caviar Green" series. Any known issues, no one has used, or any other reason it is not on the list?

Thanks,

Steven


----------



## moxie1617

ssolomo said:


> Separate drive question - I have a sealed (unopened) WD10EACS - 1.0TB model - manuf date 31 Oct 2008. That model is not listed on the FAQ. I believe it was an early model of the "Caviar Green" series. Any known issues, no one has used, or any other reason it is not on the list?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Steven


That drive caused a soft reboot problem when used as internal drive on the original Series 3, it didn't cause a problem with the Tivo HD. That was before the intellipark issues was identified so that's probably why it's not there.


----------



## richsadams

ssolomo said:


> Separate drive question - I have a sealed (unopened) WD10EACS - 1.0TB model - manuf date 31 Oct 2008. That model is not listed on the FAQ. I believe it was an early model of the "Caviar Green" series. Any known issues, no one has used, or any other reason it is not on the list?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Steven


As Moxie mentioned, the WD10EACS shouldn't be used as an internal hard drive upgrade in the original TiVo Series3. It should work fine in your TiVo HD. I had that exact model in the TiVo HD I just sold and it was flawless. Since yours was manufactured long before the recent "Intellipark feature" was added there's no worries. The drive is pretty quiet out of the box, but it might be worth running HDDScan to adjust the AAM down to 128 to make it quieter.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## cjv2

Anyone interested in technical discussion of the sector-size change issue on WD "Advanced Format" drives - not as applies to TiVo, doesn't discuss TiVo at all, but as applies to PCs in general - may be interested in this article.


----------



## Brighton Line

I have a TiVo Series3 (TCD648250B) with the 500GB My DVR Expander (yes I know I don't have to use with a Series 3, it was a gift >G<) and I've started to experience image freezing on playback. The playback would freeze for a second or so and then continue. I would even get some pixeliztaion as well.
Last night I divorced the external drive and was just left with one deleted program, everything else was gone (I knew this would happen) and I started to record shows that evening.
I assume if I do not have the problem anymore it was the external drive which has been in use for over 14 months?
Is there any other way to check and ensure it is not the internal drive?

After that I guess I have to think about how I'm going to upgrade, 35 HD hours is not envough for us. Amazon does have the 1TB My DVR for only $129, maybe the cheapest option...

TIA


----------



## richsadams

Buy.com has the popular Fantom Green 1TB eSATA drive on sale for $79.99 AR w/free shipping. This one will work via plug and play with original Series3 (not w/TiVo HD or HDXL). It comes with a two-year warranty.

I know what you're thinking...yes the drive inside is a WD GP drive but removing it would void the warranty and you'd be better off buying a bare drive (w/3-year warranty).


----------



## richsadams

Brighton Line said:


> I assume if I do not have the problem anymore it was the external drive which has been in use for over 14 months?
> Is there any other way to check and ensure it is not the internal drive?
> 
> After that I guess I have to think about how I'm going to upgrade, 35 HD hours is not envough for us. Amazon does have the 1TB My DVR for only $129, maybe the cheapest option...
> 
> TIA


The lifespan of a 500GB WD My DVR Expander seems to be 12 to 18 months. Here's a post about eSATA drive troubleshooting that may be helpful:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7553444#post7553444

TiVo has a built-in basic diagnostic called Kickstart 54:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

KS54 will check the drive for errors. It's not infallible but can often find some issues.


----------



## S3-2501

After two months with a 1TB Pipeline drive in my TivoHD, I finally got tired of telling myself that the noise "isn't that bad" (the fact that someone in the family heard the noise and commented that they didn't know how I put up with it certainly helped me reach that point.)

While I know that many here recommend the Hitachi drive, I really wanted a DVR-specific drive, so I ordered a WD10EVDS from Amazon and went through the hassle of disabling the intellipark (and yes, although running the program is simple enough, having to crack open a PC and get things set to run WDIDLE is definitely a hassle.)

The WD10EVDS I received from Amazon was made February 1st. I used a CD made the fdoem.iso downloaded from this thread and the /d switch set the intellipark to 3720 seconds (62.0 minutes.) Note that my CD drive is a PATA drive, so there was no need to change the SATA settings from AHCI to IDE. 

I copied my Pipeline drive to the new WD10EVDS using WinMFS and installed it in the Tivo. The Tivo soft-reboots fine.

After all that, I have to say the difference in noise cannot be understated. After almost a week in service, the WD10EVDS is just incredibly quiet.

So in the end I have to say that if you want a DVR-specific drive and are keeping the Tivo in a quiet room, it's definitely worth the hassle to get a WD drive, find a SATA PC and disable the intellipark. If someone figures out a way to disable intellipark via USB, we'd have the best of all worlds. 

Thanks once again to everyone who has contributed to this thread and that made it possible for me to successfully try the WD10EVDS!

Finally, I have a suggestion for this forum/thread, though I'm not sure how best to implement it. It would be really helpful for future upgraders if there were separate threads or subsections for each major upgrade drive. So, for example instead of searching through this gigantic thread, people could simply look at a thread or subsection specifically for each recommended or often used drive. That way reports of user experiences would be better organized and future upgraders could easily get the feedback they need to pick a drive that would suit their needs. Sorry for the long post...


----------



## MPSAN

Rich...putting the original 160GB drive back in my "bad" THD (and putting my saved image back on it) WORKED! Glad I have FIOS as the saved image, done while creating the 1TB "upgrade" was with Comcast. It did take 4 1/2 hours to finish by the time it got done downloading data as the last time it was used was August '09. Then the guide data had to be updated to reflect the change from Comcat to FIOS.

Anyway, I now want to put the 1TB back in it. I do have the first 4 episodes of V on it, but I guess they can not be saved.

Anyway, I assume the 1TB drive just had a data glitch when I unplugged the THD to swap it (per TiVo Support for another issue). Do you know if a 2 drive upgrade will format (fix) any issues with the 1TB drive, or should I try a write all zero's from a WD Utility?

I had a quick thought....I wonder if we should always pull the antenna connection before powering down? My "bad" 1TB drive had been working for 8 Months. My theory is that when I pulled the power, it may have been in the middle of a write in order to keep saving the 1/2 hours worth of data from both tuners. IF the antenna was pulled before the power, then perhaps there would be no drive activity. I could test this theory...I could put the bad drive in...and without the antenna connected, see if it can stay up enough to get my 4 V shows! After all, without the antenna, there may be a lot less activity!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Rich...putting the original 160GB drive back in my "bad" THD (and putting my saved image back on it) WORKED! Glad I have FIOS as the saved image, done while creating the 1TB "upgrade" was with Comcast. It did take 4 1/2 hours to finish by the time it got done downloading data as the last time it was used was August '09. Then the guide data had to be updated to reflect the change from Comcat to FIOS.
> 
> Anyway, I now want to put the 1TB back in it. I do have the first 4 episodes of V on it, but I guess they can not be saved.
> 
> Anyway, I assume the 1TB drive just had a data glitch when I unplugged the THD to swap it (per TiVo Support for another issue). Do you know if a 2 drive upgrade will format (fix) any issues with the 1TB drive, or should I try a write all zero's from a WD Utility?
> 
> I had a quick thought....I wonder if we should always pull the antenna connection before powering down? My "bad" 1TB drive had been working for 8 Months. My theory is that when I pulled the power, it may have been in the middle of a write in order to keep saving the 1/2 hours worth of data from both tuners. IF the antenna was pulled before the power, then perhaps there would be no drive activity. I could test this theory...I could put the bad drive in...and without the antenna connected, see if it can stay up enough to get my 4 V shows! After all, without the antenna, there may be a lot less activity!


I know when you do an upgrade (truncated or full copy) that the drives are formatted of course, but I've no idea if if would fix any issues. I kind of doubt it. Running the extended diagnostic should find any problems so it might be worth some peace of mind.

Interesting idea about pulling the coax before unplugging the unit. I've never done that and I haven't experienced any problems, but it certainly couldn't hurt. I don't think the buffer stops when there's no "real" input...though the data its writing would certainly be minimal...I could be wrong about that though.

My WAG is that when power is removed and reapplied, particularly when it's reapplied, it can have a much bigger impact on a hard drive than if a read and/or write session is interrupted. It could obviously corrupt data, but more importantly it can have a bigger impact if it "spikes" the drive's hardware (chips, etc.) or firmware. I know they have built-in protection for such things, but it's not like powering down and then powering a computer back up where these things are taken into account.

That's why I suspect folks that are continually unplugging and plugging their TiVo's back in end up with more problems than when they started. I don't know if putting TiVo in a standby state and then unplugging it to somewhat avoid a "dirty shutdown" might make a difference or not.

I think having some sort of power conditioner (something other than a surge protector) like a UPS can mitigate some of the hard drive issues people run into. Power can be a funny thing.

Anyway, that's good news. Hopefully everything will go smoothly and you can save your recordings. "V" is a pretty good show!


----------



## richsadams

S3-2501 said:


> After two months with a 1TB Pipeline drive in my TivoHD, I finally got tired of telling myself that the noise "isn't that bad" <snip>


Seagate's Pipeline series is supposed to be fairly quiet, but obviously not quiet enough. Since the AAM can't be adjusted replacing it with one of the WD GP drives was a good move. Did you happen to check the AAM on the WD10EVDS? My understanding is that it's already set to 128 but I was just curious.

Agreed that drive specific information would be helpful, but I'm not sure how bkdtv would implement it. Plus then it would require that each part be maintained...and that could be a chore since manufacturer's seem to delight in making changes (aka "upgrades") on a regular basis. But if it could be managed it certainly would be helpful.

Glad to hear that the "sounds of silence" are back again. Enjoy!


----------



## pl1

S3-2501 said:


> After two months with a 1TB Pipeline drive in my TivoHD, I finally got tired of telling myself that the noise "isn't that bad" (the fact that someone in the family heard the noise and commented that they didn't know how I put up with it certainly helped me reach that point.)


Same here. I just could not tolerate the thumping noise. So, I did the same thing as you and I'm glad I did. Plus, the 1T drives are cheap enough ($89) so it didn't break the bank. I also RMA'd my original WD drive for $6 shipping and sold my used Seagate. Now I have an extra sealed WD drive ready to go at anytime I need it.

BTW, I'm getting a dual SATA docking station with eSATA ports. I'm wondering if I can disable the Intellipark with eSATA ports. I know it's not possible with USB. Does anyone know out of curiousity? I can't see why it wouldn't work since the eSATA connects right to the SATA on the motherboard.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230446719481&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250562784237&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

I'll have to try that out when I get it.


----------



## MPSAN

Well, I would like to rescue V if I can. I guess it starts again on the 30th but there is a 1 hour show on the 23rd that sums up the first 4 hours!

Anyway, I think the safest way to power down is to go to the menu (if you can get to it) and tell it to restart. As it does it, it turns off the HDD, and as soon as the Powering Up screen shows up, you can pull the plug, as nothing is going on then with the HDD.

I was going to test my no antenna theory with putting the BAD 1TB drive back. I wonder if I can just turn off the THD, rest the BAD drive on top of the 160GB drive and change the cable without putting the "bad" drive in the cradle?

Anyway, if this does not work, I may put the BAD 1TB drive in the XP system and use WD diags to write zeros.



richsadams said:


> I know when you do an upgrade (truncated or full copy) that the drives are formatted of course, but I've no idea if if would fix any issues. I kind of doubt it. Running the extended diagnostic should find any problems so it might be worth some peace of mind.
> 
> Interesting idea about pulling the coax before unplugging the unit. I've never done that and I haven't experienced any problems, but it certainly couldn't hurt. I don't think the buffer stops when there's no "real" input...though the data its writing would certainly be minimal...I could be wrong about that though.
> 
> My WAG is that when power is removed and reapplied, particularly when it's reapplied, it can have a much bigger impact on a hard drive than if a read and/or write session is interrupted. It could obviously corrupt data, but more importantly it can have a bigger impact if it "spikes" the drive's hardware (chips, etc.) or firmware. I know they have built-in protection for such things, but it's not like powering down and then powering a computer back up where these things are taken into account.
> 
> That's why I suspect folks that are continually unplugging and plugging their TiVo's back in end up with more problems than when they started. I don't know if putting TiVo in a standby state and then unplugging it to somewhat avoid a "dirty shutdown" might make a difference or not.
> 
> I think having some sort of power conditioner (something other than a surge protector) like a UPS can mitigate some of the hard drive issues people run into. Power can be a funny thing.
> 
> Anyway, that's good news. Hopefully everything will go smoothly and you can save your recordings. "V" is a pretty good show!


----------



## richsadams

pl1 said:


> BTW, I'm getting a dual SATA docking station with eSATA ports. I'm wondering if I can disable the Intellipark with eSATA ports. I know it's not possible with USB. Does anyone know out of curiousity? I can't see why it wouldn't work since the eSATA connects right to the SATA on the motherboard.


I agree...that should work. But knowing that it does for sure would be very valuable. :up:


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Anyway, I think the safest way to power down is to go to the menu (if you can get to it) and tell it to restart. As it does it, it turns off the HDD, and as soon as the Powering Up screen shows up, you can pull the plug, as nothing is going on then with the HDD.


 That's a good idea. :up:



MPSAN said:


> I was going to test my no antenna theory with putting the BAD 1TB drive back. I wonder if I can just turn off the THD, rest the BAD drive on top of the 160GB drive and change the cable without putting the "bad" drive in the cradle?


Yes, I've done that plenty of times. Just be sure not to touch the exposed circuits on the "extra" hard drive to any metal or it's bye-bye hard drive! I usually lay the extra drive upside down on top of the TiVo drive so they're lying against each other top-to-top.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> That's a good idea. :up:
> 
> Yes, I've done that plenty of times. Just be sure not to touch the exposed circuits on the "extra" hard drive to any metal or it's bye-bye hard drive!


Yes, I always put the antistatic bag between drives. Anyway, I will let you know how it goes. There are 2 shows I want to get back if I can, but, after all, it is only TV!

As a last resort, is there a KICKSTART I should try first? I do not know if I have ever seen anyone say a KICKSTART worked.


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Yes, I always put the antistatic bag between drives. Anyway, I will let you know how it goes. There are 2 shows I want to get back if I can, but, after all, it is only TV!


Sounds good. BTW, the whole first season of "V" is available on line. I'm not sure where it's located...I access it through Boxee (for free) on my Mac but I'm sure it can be found via TiVo as well.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Sounds good. BTW, the whole first season of "V" is available on line. I'm not sure where it's located...I access it through Boxee (for free) on my Mac but I'm sure it can be found via TiVo as well.


Well, ABC has it online but I do not want to watch on the computer. The BAD drive is transferring it now to another THD. I will see how long I can keep it running. As I said, I wonder if there is 1 Kickstart I can try that could FIX the 1TB drive before I Zero it out? If a kickstart can work, I could save the shows...if this antenna adea does not work!


----------



## bciocco

If it's only two shows, the $5.98 (2.99 X 2) to purchase them from Amazon might be worth it; SD would only be $3.98 (1.99 X 2). It depends how much the time and aggravation is worth to you. Amazon will send them to the TiVo.


----------



## S3-2501

richsadams said:


> Did you happen to check the AAM on the WD10EVDS? My understanding is that it's already set to 128 but I was just curious.


 Sorry, but I did not. I almost did, but I was in a hurry trying to get everything done in time for Lost that evening so I did everything as quickly and smoothly as possible without any extra steps.


----------



## MPSAN

bciocco said:


> If it's only two shows, the $5.98 (2.99 X 2) to purchase them from Amazon might be worth it; SD would only be $3.98 (1.99 X 2). It depends how much the time and aggravation is worth to you. Amazon will send them to the TiVo.


Thank you, but it is just not worth it to get all 4 of them. When I said 2 shows I meant V and a movie and V has 4 episodes. Makes me wonder as they are going to summarize the 4 shows on the 23rd in 1 hour!

As I mentioned to Rich, this may be a great time to see if any KICKSTART would work, but I need one that does not destroy data.


----------



## S3-2501

pl1 said:


> I'm wondering if I can disable the Intellipark with eSATA ports. I know it's not possible with USB. Does anyone know out of curiousity? I can't see why it wouldn't work since the eSATA connects right to the SATA on the motherboard.


 I thought of doing it via eSATA as well, but I couldn't remember if the eSATA ports on my PC are connected to the main standard Intel controller, or if they are connected to the extra Gigabyte one that Windows needs special drivers for, so I just played it safe and connected it directly to the Intel SATA ports on the motherboard. In theory it should work via eSATA, but odd controllers are one possible complication.


----------



## bciocco

MPSAN said:


> Thank you, but it is just not worth it to get all 4 of them. When I said 2 shows I meant V and a movie and V has 4 episodes. Makes me wonder as they are going to summarize the 4 shows on the 23rd in 1 hour!
> 
> As I mentioned to Rich, this may be a great time to see if any KICKSTART would work, but I need one that does not destroy data.


If you already have the shows recorded, would downloading the bit torrent and bringing them in through TiVO Desktop or pyTiVo be unethical?


----------



## MPSAN

bciocco said:


> If you already have the shows recorded, would downloading the bit torrent and bringing them in through TiVO Desktop or pyTiVo be unethical?


Well, so far, my TEST of bringing up the BAD drive with the THD's antenna disconnected is working. I have all of the first show and it is at 27 minutes of the second one now. This may work out!

As far as a torrent goes, I have used avp2dvd before and it works!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Thank you, but it is just not worth it to get all 4 of them. When I said 2 shows I meant V and a movie and V has 4 episodes. Makes me wonder as they are going to summarize the 4 shows on the 23rd in 1 hour!
> 
> As I mentioned to Rich, this may be a great time to see if any KICKSTART would work, but I need one that does not destroy data.


Kickstart 57 or Kickstart 58 are designed to do what you're thinking of. Generally the recordings would be left unharmed but no guarantees of course. Might be worth a try...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2


----------



## richsadams

Newegg has the Hitachi Deskstar HD31000 IDK/7K on sale for $67.99 w/free shipping (ends at midnight Pacific today). That's an excellent price for this drive. It's the specific one mentioned earlier for upgrading TiVo's. As mentioned I have three of them, one as a backup drive and two running in a NAS. They are very quiet (adjusting the AAM to 128 using HDDScan would make them even more quiet) and they run surprisingly cool. They've been flawless for several months now. A number of folks here are very happy with them in their TiVo's.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Kickstart 57 or Kickstart 58 are designed to do what you're thinking of. Generally the recordings would be left unharmed but no guarantees of course. Might be worth a try...
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2


Rich...you know my crazy idea about starting up with the bad drive and no antenna?

Well, I have FINISHED the transfer of all 4 of the V shows.


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Rich...you know my crazy idea about starting up with the bad drive and no antenna?
> 
> Well, I have FINISHED the transfer of all 4 of the V shows.


Excellent. Nothing to lose by running the diagnostic tests then. You could run KS54, the SMART test as well and see what it says.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Excellent. Nothing to lose by running the diagnostic tests then. You could run KS54, the SMART test as well and see what it says.


Well, I am starting to think the best thing would be to just write all zero's to the 1TB WD, and then use WINmfs 2 drive upgrade, as the original 160 GB drive is running well now. The bad 1TB is just resting on top of the 160GB drive with the drive cables swapped.


----------



## keenanSR

That's a great price on that Hitachi, right now I'm trying to convince myself I actually need one.


----------



## bciocco

keenanSR said:


> That's a great price on that Hitachi, right now I'm trying to convince myself I actually need one.


Me too. I bought one for the TiVo last week. Now, I am deciding if I want to put one in the dock I just bought and use it as a media / backup drive.


----------



## richsadams

keenanSR said:


> That's a great price on that Hitachi, right now I'm trying to convince myself I actually need one.





bciocco said:


> Me too. I bought one for the TiVo last week. Now, I am deciding if I want to put one in the dock I just bought and use it as a media / backup drive.


Okay...so which arm would you two like twisted?


----------



## chrishicks

keenanSR said:


> That's a great price on that Hitachi, right now I'm trying to convince myself I actually need one.


I've been sitting here contemplating grabbing one of those 2TB drives on Ebay for one of my S3s but that 68.00 price is just screaming out "get me instead!!!!!". I could outfit 3 S3s with 1TB in each for the same cost as the 2TB for just one of them.


----------



## bciocco

richsadams said:


> Okay...so which arm would you two like twisted?


OK. You talked me into it. I need to put something in that new dock.


----------



## MPSAN

bciocco said:


> OK. You talked me into it. I need to put something in that new dock.


...and don't forget that Newegg is a BING cashback vendor!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> ...and don't forget that Newegg is a BING cashback vendor!


That's true! In the end they'll have to pay people to take them away!


----------



## bciocco

I never looked at Bing. I already ordered it. Now I see I could have gotten 2% back.


----------



## richsadams

bciocco said:


> I never looked at Bing. I already ordered it. Now I see I could have gotten 2% back.


Guess you'll have to skip the whipped cream on your next latte.


----------



## pl1

bciocco said:


> OK. You talked me into it. I need to put something in that new dock.


ditto.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> That's true! In the end they'll have to pay people to take them away!


Well, I'm so old that I remember getting a Jar of Jelly or NFL glasses when you filled up with gas!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Well, I'm so old that I remember getting a Jar of Jelly or NFL glasses when you filled up with gas!


And don't forget...S&H Green Stamps!


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> And don't forget...S&H Green Stamps!


I can't. I fixed the computers at the Bank they were dealing with back home in CT!


----------



## pl1

richsadams said:


> And don't forget...S&H Green Stamps!


or the Tiger in the tank tail!


----------



## gages97

Hoping you guys can provide some help.

I have a series 3 on which the hard disk is dying. Boots and runs fine but recorded shows when played back stutter, freeze, and then if they freeze for long enough the unit will reboot. 

I purchased a Hitachi HDS721010CLA332.

When I do a backup and restore using WinMFS (just truncated backup no recordings) then put the new hard drive in the Tivo it will not boot all the way. Gets to ready set tivo then after a minute or 2 reboots.

I figured it was something with my original drive so tonight I went to do this with my bedroom tivo and the same thing. The backup and restore look fine but the series 3 will not boot from the new hard drive.

So if this is happening on 2 machines I am suspecting the Hitachi hard drive.

Any ideas?


----------



## richsadams

gages97 said:


> Hoping you guys can provide some help. <snip>


It does sound like a hard drive issue. You could try running a diagnostic on it...an extended read/write/read should turn up any issues. But in the long run you'll still probably have to return the drive and start over again. Unfortunately these things happen sometimes. I had it happen with a Samsung hard drive once. The drive ended up working fine as a backup for a computer, but for some reason TiVo would have nothing to do with it.

Probably not what you wanted to hear but hope that helps!


----------



## gages97

Sounds probable.

Having done a variety of stuff to this drive (mfscopy, ddrescue, restore), I am wondering if I did something bad along the way. Strange though as mfsinfo shows everything to be just fine aka all partitions look right.

Is there a procedure to wipe the drive clean and put it back into a known good state? I did a delete format from Win MFS.

Is there anything you need to do to the drive for prep (I saw the Hitachi had a utility to set the drive to 3Gb/s) or is it simply plug and play and if not something is no good with the drive?


----------



## cherry ghost

Bought the Hitachi earlier from Newegg. Can the upgrade be done with a sata to esata cable so I don't have to open up my computer? Sorry if it's been answered, I tried searching.


----------



## richsadams

gages97 said:


> Is there anything you need to do to the drive for prep (I saw the Hitachi had a utility to set the drive to 3Gb/s) or is it simply plug and play and if not something is no good with the drive?


No prep to be done. The winMFS program automatically formats the drive. If it simply doesn't work, it's more than likely something is up with the drive.


----------



## richsadams

cherry ghost said:


> Bought the Hitachi earlier from Newegg. Can the upgrade be done with a sata to esata cable so I don't have to open up my computer? Sorry if it's been answered, I tried searching.


The answer to your question is yes, you can use an eSATA connection instead of opening up your computer. You're right, the FAQ only references SATA > USB and hard drive docks. However you can connect old and/or new drive to your computer using an eSATA > SATA or eSATA > eSATA connection. Perhaps bkdtv can update those references.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## rainbow

richsadams said:


> Newegg has the Hitachi Deskstar HD31000 IDK/7K on sale for $67.99 w/free shipping (ends at midnight Pacific today). .....


Just clicked on that link - price is now 84.99.


----------



## pl1

rainbow said:


> Just clicked on that link - price is now 84.99.


As you quoted: "ends at midnight Pacific today" which was last night, and they WERE sold out. If they have them in stock, they must have decided to stop selling at that price I guess.(?) Because, last night, they showed as SOLD OUT.


----------



## richsadams

pl1 said:


> As you quoted: "ends at midnight Pacific today" which was last night, and they WERE sold out. If they have them in stock, they must have decided to stop selling at that price I guess.(?) Because, last night, they showed as SOLD OUT.


Vendors often budget X amount of product at a particular price. When they meet their "goal" that's it. I guess it should say "Sold Out...at that price".


----------



## Brighton Line

Quick question as I've determiend the drive failing is my internal drive not the DVR Expander (figure that one out). Will "Preserve Settings Only" copy the cablecard paring?

Cablevision would charge for a truck roll just to pair the cards again having a tech sit in my livinroom on the phone reading numbers off the screen, like I can't do that >G<.


----------



## ADG

Brighton Line said:


> Quick question as I've determiend the drive failing is my internal drive not the DVR Expander (figure that one out). Will "Preserve Settings Only" copy the cablecard paring?
> 
> Cablevision would charge for a truck roll just to pair the cards again having a tech sit in my livinroom on the phone reading numbers off the screen, like I can't do that >G<.


I recently asked the same question a few pages back and was assured that everything (except recordings) will be preserved.


----------



## bciocco

Received my dock today and am in the middle of Mfscopy. I realized that, in my excitement to get started, I forgot to delete the "Recently Deleted" files. I guess I'll be here for a while. WinMFS is showing 5:05:02.


----------



## rainbow

bciocco said:


> Received my dock today and am in the middle of Mfscopy. I realized that, in my excitement to get started, I forgot to delete the "Recently Deleted" files. I guess I'll be here for a while. WinMFS is showing 5:05:02.


Well, at least you didn't burn up your old tivo hd like I did last weekend!

(it wasn't working properly in my tivo originally which is why it was pulled. I had purchased an orig 250G hd for the same series 3 thru ebay awhile back, so that is the one that is in use right now).


----------



## richsadams

Brighton Line said:


> Quick question as I've determiend the drive failing is my internal drive not the DVR Expander (figure that one out). Will "Preserve Settings Only" copy the cablecard paring?
> 
> Cablevision would charge for a truck roll just to pair the cards again having a tech sit in my livinroom on the phone reading numbers off the screen, like I can't do that >G<.


Sorry to hear that. Yes, as long as your OS image isn't corrupted (if TiVo still starts up normally it should be fine) all of your settings, Season Passes, cable card pairing, etc. will be intact using a truncated backup (Preserve Settings Only).


----------



## bciocco

Upgrade complete including AAM and copying all shows from existing drive. I now show 157HD hours. I did run MfsSuperSize.

The upgrade took about six hours. I was a bit concerned at one point toward the end when I saw over 1 million hours left.

There was also a confusing section near the end. Once I set the new drive as drive A, there isn't any way to know it's done.


----------



## cliffdwelling

I bought a WD10EARS Caviar 1TB for my Zino(HD), but now am thinking of trying my first internal upgrade of my Tivo HD. I have been reading a lot of the threads and see that there are a few steps I need to do to make this work or maybe not. I hope someone can answer a couple of questions.
1) Will this Advanced Format Drive work on Tivo HD? There have been mixed responses.
2) Will the WD align software make it compatible ?


----------



## richsadams

cliffdwelling said:


> I hope someone can answer a couple of questions.
> 1) Will this Advanced Format Drive work on Tivo HD? There have been mixed responses.
> 2) Will the WD align software make it compatible ?


1. Yes. There were some concerns early on because of the change from legacy drive architecture however it ended up making no difference (to TiVo).

2. No need to use it.

There are several folks here that have used the WD10EARS successfully. More here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7813256#post7813256

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7814361#post7814361

Happy upgrading!


----------



## cliffdwelling

Thanks for the post links. I will report back after giving it a try.


----------



## cwerdna

After all my trials and tribulations at http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=444895, I tried to remove external storage to see if it'd boot and I'm stuck in a loop where I disconnected answer clear, 3 thumbs down, enter and not next boot it asks me again.  KS 52, 56, and 58 don't help this problem either.  It seems like the stock drive's image is screwed, if not the drive itself.

TivoJerry's opinion from a PM the night before (request for him to try to look at my logs) was the he wouldn't trust the drive at this point anyway.

I think I'd rather void my warranty (I'm between the 90 day and 1 year mark already) and buy a 1 TB drive instead of paying $49 + shipping for a refurb 160 gig Tivo HD. At least that way, I'd have 1 TB and only a single point of failure vs. a 160 gig + 1 TB expander.

I've read over the recommended drive list and obviously some people have had some luck w/drives not on the list, including the WD "EARS" (4K advanced sector) drives. Any others that are reasonably quiet (using AAM is ok), cheap and most importantly *reliable *that work well? I'm wary a bit wary of WD and no, I don't want any that have soft reboot problems.

I would've jumped on the $67.99 newegg Hitachi deal but I didn't know for certain that I needed a drive at that point. Seems like the cheapest 1TB that's on the list and available now at newegg is http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145304&Tpk=HDS721010CLA332.

If it's available for cheap within reasonable drive of the Seattle area, that's even better!

I could also open up my 1TB Expander and put that in my TiVo... but err.. WD... (It did pass WD's Lifeguard extended test.)


----------



## bciocco

cwerdna said:


> I would've jumped on the $67.99 newegg Hitachi deal but I didn't know for certain that I needed a drive at that point. Seems like the cheapest 1TB that's on the list and available now at newegg is http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145304&Tpk=HDS721010CLA332.


I did the upgrade with that drive last night. It was easy. I just followed the directions on the first post of this thread. It was time consuming (6 hours) because my drive was full. The toughest part is the waiting. If all you are doing is the truncated backup, it should take less than an hour. I did the AAM mod as well. It takes longer to download and decompress the HDD Scan (I used Free RAR Extract Frog) to make the mod than it takes to do it. The drive is quiet.

When you set the AAM, move the slider, don't change the numbers. I changed the numbers a few times and they kept changing back when I hit _save_. Then, I noticed the slider, moved it all the way to the left, hit _save_, and it was done.

Others have used the drive successfully and I have not read about any one having problems with it. Search the Forum for Hitachi and you will find others. The WinMFS Forum has some discussion regarding drives as well.


----------



## Brighton Line

pl1 said:


> As you quoted: "ends at midnight Pacific today" which was last night, and they WERE sold out. If they have them in stock, they must have decided to stop selling at that price I guess.(?) Because, last night, they showed as SOLD OUT.


Amazon has it for $0.07 less then current new egg price but Amazon is in stock.
FWIW


----------



## pl1

Brighton Line said:


> Amazon has it for $0.07 less then current new egg price but Amazon is in stock.
> FWIW


Just got in the hitachi 1t drive from newegg! That was quick for free shipping and $67, eh? Not only that, it is a retail drive with a cable! I can always use another cable.


----------



## pl1

Brighton Line said:


> Amazon has it for $0.07 less then current new egg price but Amazon is in stock.
> FWIW


I see it on Amazon for $84.93 and newegg for $79.99 right now. Both show it in stock. ?

http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-Desks...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1268837044&sr=8-1

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145304&Tpk=HDS721010CLA332


----------



## richsadams

cwerdna said:


> After all my trials and tribulations at http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=444895, I tried to remove external storage to see if it'd boot and I'm stuck in a loop where I disconnected answer clear, 3 thumbs down, enter and not next boot it asks me again.  KS 52, 56, and 58 don't help this problem either.  It seems like the stock drive's image is screwed, if not the drive itself. <snip>


If your 1TB WD My DVR Expander didn't give you any trouble and you're not planning on reusing or repurposing it I'd pull it out of its enclosure and give it a try first. (That will void the one-year warranty of course.) I'd run WD's Lifeguard extended diagnostic on it to be sure everything's okay. There's no reason to think that it will be any more or less reliable than any of the other drives you could buy. The 1TB WD's in our TiVo's have been flawless. I'm also using some of the 1TB Hitachi's mentioned and a 500GB Seagate DB35. All run cool and quiet.

If money is no object I'd probably opt for Western Digital's A/V dedicated WD10EVDS (would need the "Intellipark" feature disabled per the first post) or the Hitachi which has quickly become one of my favorites (adjusting the AAM will make it very quiet). Fry's has the retail kit in Renton for $89.99 if you can't wait.


----------



## cwerdna

Thanks for all the advice!


richsadams said:


> If your 1TB WD My DVR Expander didn't give you any trouble and you're not planning on reusing or repurposing it I'd pull it out of its enclosure and give it a try first. (That will void the one-year warranty of course.) I'd run WD's Lifeguard extended diagnostic on it to be sure everything's okay. There's no reason to think that it will be any more or less reliable than any of the other drives you could buy. The 1TB WD's in our TiVo's have been flawless. I'm also using some of the 1TB Hitachi's mentioned and a 500GB Seagate DB35. All run cool and quiet.


It's hard to say at this point if my 1TB Expander was the source of any probs. I already ran the Lifeguard extended diagnostics the other day and it passed. I hadn't done so on the stock 160 gig drive as it seems hosed anyway (unclear if it due to drive probs or a bug). FWIW, KS 54's SMART and overnight tests both run until completion passed on both drives as well.

But yeah, maybe I'll try running some additional tests just be sure as I probably won't repurpose it nor hook it up to my fixed TiVo.

I have no backup since I never cracked the box on my Tivo HD yet. I need an image that I friend of mine might be supplying me.

Amazon's less preferable unless they're way cheaper because I'd have to pay sales tax since I'm in WA, which is where their HQ is.


----------



## richsadams

cwerdna said:


> It's hard to say at this point if my 1TB Expander was the source of any probs. I already ran the Lifeguard extended diagnostics the other day and it passed. I hadn't done so on the stock 160 gig drive as it seems hosed anyway (unclear if it due to drive probs or a bug). FWIW, KS 54's SMART and overnight tests both run until completion passed on both drives as well.


KS54 isn't actually a TiVo diagnostic, but a SMART (Self-Monitoring, Analysis, and Reporting Technology) test they've added. There are many, many similar reports wherein a drive or drives passed KS54 but ultimately failed or didn't pass more conventional computer diagnostics (and vice-versa). At this point I'm not so sure it's worth having on TiVo since it seems so unreliable, at least in the TiVo environment.

It's unlikely that either hard drive actually affected the other. The boot partitions are kept on the internal drive and recordings are striped across both. It's more likely that the internal drive simply failed.

Using another TiVo's image may or may not work out. If not, you can always get a copy of Instant Cake.

Let us know how things go!


----------



## cliffdwelling

I am trying to do an Mfscopy but for some reason WinMFS does not show my new WD10EARS drive in Destination drives. Windows recognizes it and so does WinMFS as drive 0 and my original drive as drive 1 when I select drive.
I also realized that WinMFS says that WD10Ears is not a Tivo drive.


----------



## dt100

zipzoomfly has a pretty good price on the hitachi 7k1000.c, if you don't mind dealing with a rebate. That is where I got mine. Packing seems good, and fast shipping. I have no connection with them.


----------



## Generic

pl1 said:


> I see it on Amazon for $84.93 and newegg for $79.99 right now. Both show it in stock. ?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-Desks...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1268837044&sr=8-1
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145304&Tpk=HDS721010CLA332


I just bought this one at Fry's for $69.99. I saw it on the website for $89.99 and drove down there to get it. When I got there, there was a sign saying it was $69.99.


----------



## pl1

Generic said:


> I just bought this one at Fry's for $69.99. I saw it on the website for $89.99 and drove down there to get it. When I got there, there was a sign saying it was $69.99.


You can't beat that with a stick!


----------



## richsadams

cliffdwelling said:


> I am trying to do an Mfscopy but for some reason WinMFS does not show my new WD10EARS drive in Destination drives. Windows recognizes it and so does WinMFS as drive 0 and my original drive as drive 1 when I select drive.
> I also realized that WinMFS says that WD10Ears is not a Tivo drive.


Okay, I'm confused (nothing new). Based on what you've said, winMFS does indeed recognize your new drive (drive "0") and since you haven't done anything with it it would be correct that it's not a TiVo drive. If it recognizes your original drive as "drive 1" and your new drive as "drive 0" there shouldn't be any problem running the program. Or maybe I just missed something?


----------



## rhattala

Tivo S3 Instantcake upgrade problem
Ok my 250 original driver crapped out on me, so i decided to upgrade to a 500GB WD green drive. So i got a copy of instant cake for S3 tivos and took the new drive and had a successful "bake of my cake" on the drive. Heres were the problem starts... i put it back in the tivo and nothing... only welcome, powering up! I have let it run for over an hour and nothing. So i decided to try to image the drive again and still a no go... im stuck! Is there something im missing or has the box itself gone bad! any suggestions would be helpful Thanks!

The Drive upgrading to is WD Green Drive is WD5000AAVS


----------



## cliffdwelling

richsadams said:


> Okay, I'm confused (nothing new). Based on what you've said, winMFS does indeed recognize your new drive (drive "0") and since you haven't done anything with it it would be correct that it's not a TiVo drive. If it recognizes your original drive as "drive 1" and your new drive as "drive 0" there shouldn't be any problem running the program. Or maybe I just missed something?


It only recognized my new drive when I checked the box(view mounted drives).

When I tried to copy my drives, the new drive was not listed as a destination drive.

Anyways ,I did a truncated backup of original drive -took it out and then restarted computer with new drive . I ran WinFMS and delete format and it now recognizes the new drive as a Tivo drive as before it said "Not a Tivo Drive".

I ran restore from backup and that seemed to work. I will try to install later but still would like to preserve recordings from original drive. It may have been my controller settings as I only had one expansion bay open and the sata cable was for a optical drive.
What is the easiest way to connect 3 hard drives to computer?


----------



## gages97

So today I tried a replacement Hitachi. Same issue, restore from WinMFS looks like it works, but system will then not boot all the way. This time it booted then gave me a GSOD.

I downloaded instacake, copied image to drive, and now all is fine.

I took my original drive and did the instacake and also fine.

Some weird buy going from 750GB to 1TB?

I am using latest WinMFS.


----------



## richsadams

cliffdwelling said:


> It only recognized my new drive when I checked the box(view mounted drives).<snip>


Ah, got it now. If your computer is fairly recent it should have at least two open SATA connectors. Connecting both drives to the MB is the best/fastest way to copy everything over. Otherwise you can use a USB/SATA adapter or a dual drive docking station (eSATA or USB)...that's slower but it will work.


----------



## Kevin R

Finally am ready to start the upgrade.:up:
Recieved my WD10EVDS from amazon (their HD packing has greatly improved).

I ran the wdidle program and all seemed to go well EXCEPT, when it ran I noticed it listed both the WD10EVDS AND my caviar black 1T.
Same notice for both "idle3 timer enabled, set to 3720 seconds".

Did I mess up the black drive by leaving it in the system when I ran the program, and if so, how do I undo it? Do the blacks even have the idle set and if so at what?

As far as the Tivo, I plan to just do the backup and reload, since my PC only has two sata ports, and I don't have a usb adapter.
Wish I had done this a few weeks ago. 
With the Olympics putting everything else in reruns, once they cleared I had almost nothing left on it. Now I'm back to a dozen or so HD shows that I either lose or back up through Tivo desk top, which isn't really very fast.

Kevin R


----------



## richsadams

rhattala said:


> Tivo S3 Instantcake upgrade problem
> Ok my 250 original driver crapped out on me, so i decided to upgrade to a 500GB WD green drive. So i got a copy of instant cake for S3 tivos and took the new drive and had a successful "bake of my cake" on the drive. Heres were the problem starts... i put it back in the tivo and nothing... only welcome, powering up! I have let it run for over an hour and nothing. So i decided to try to image the drive again and still a no go... im stuck! Is there something im missing or has the box itself gone bad! any suggestions would be helpful Thanks!
> 
> The Drive upgrading to is WD Green Drive is WD5000AAVS


If your TiVo hangs on the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen it means that the mother board cannot communicate with the hard drive. Don't take this the wrong way, but is the drive connected and powering up? If the drive is powering up can you hear seek noises (clicking) for a while or at all?

What happened to your original drive? Why do you think it quit...what symptoms did you see?

It's possible something is wrong with your TiVo but more likely something is up with the drive. Is the drive new? Did you run any diagnostics (like WD's Lifeguard)? Are you sure you loaded the correct IC image? Could it have been one for a TiVo HD instead of a Series3 or vice versa?

IIRC there is a troubleshooting section for IC...have a look at that and see if something makes sense.

Let us know a little more if none of that helped.


----------



## cwerdna

richsadams said:


> If your 1TB WD My DVR Expander didn't give you any trouble and you're not planning on reusing or repurposing it I'd pull it out of its enclosure and give it a try first. (That will void the one-year warranty of course.) I'd run WD's Lifeguard extended diagnostic on it to be sure everything's okay. There's no reason to think that it will be any more or less reliable than any of the other drives you could buy. The 1TB WD's in our TiVo's have been flawless.


Dumb question.

I haven't opened up my Tivo HD nor Expander yet. From looking at the pics at http://www.gizmolovers.com/photos/tivo-hd-review-photos/, are the two SATA connectors on the motherboard identical? I'm unclear. If so, I was thinking I could disconnect the bad A drive and connect the eSATA one to the A drive SATA connector thus making the Expander the only drive in (outside) the system. It's hokey, but it's way of ensuring the thing works ok (once I get an image) w/o I voiding its warranty.

Not sure if I'd want to run that way permanently since the 500GB Expanders seem to have questionable reliability. I'd probably only want to run that way (at most) until the Expander's warranty runs out and then just move the drive internally. I'd imagine it should still work w/o loss of recordings or anything.


----------



## ADG

Kevin R said:


> Finally am ready to start the upgrade.:up:
> 
> I ran the wdidle program and all seemed to go well EXCEPT, when it ran I noticed it listed both the WD10EVDS AND my caviar black 1T.
> Same notice for both "idle3 timer enabled, set to 3720 seconds".
> 
> Did I mess up the black drive by leaving it in the system when I ran the program, and if so, how do I undo it? Do the blacks even have the idle set and if so at what?
> 
> Kevin R


1) You should have disconnected all drives except the WD10EVDS
2) The utility should only effect the WD10EVDS unless the Caviar has the same power setting. And even then the worst that will happen is that setting has now been disabled.


----------



## pl1

richsadams said:


> Ah, got it now. If your computer is fairly recent it should have at least two open SATA connectors. Connecting both drives to the MB is the best/fastest way to copy everything over. Otherwise you can use a USB/SATA adapter or a dual drive docking station (eSATA or USB)...that's slower but it will work.


Hey Rich. Have you ever tried a dual dock copy yourself? I'm just curious, since I have not tried it. But according to what I've read, it can clone a drive within it's own device.

So my thought was, once you start the procedure (either via USB or eSATA), wouldn't the transfer occur within the docking station itself? Or do you think it would still have to go to the PC from the source and back for the destination? Just curious.

When I do get one, I can test it out. If there is no hdd light activity on the PC, that would be a good indication that it is not using the PC. I guess the best test would be to use a USB connection and see if it goes as fast as an SATA connection.


----------



## bciocco

pl1 said:


> Hey Rich. Have you ever tried a dual dock copy yourself? I'm just curious, since I have not tried it. But according to what I've read, it can clone a drive within it's own device.
> 
> So my thought was, once you start the procedure (either via USB or eSATA), wouldn't the transfer occur within the docking station itself? Or do you think it would still have to go to the PC from the source and back for the destination? Just curious.
> 
> When I do get one, I can test it out. If there is no hdd light activity on the PC, that would be a good indication that it is not using the PC. I guess the best test would be to use a USB connection and see if it goes as fast as an SATA connection.


I am not Rich. But, I did do the upgrade with a dual docking station. I am not sure whether the pc is used or for what purpose. It did take about six hours to copy the information from one drive to the other using MFScopy. The drive lights on the dock flash rapidly and I did not hear and disk activity on my pc. 
I am thinking it uses the pc for something. The MFScopy program is able to tell me that progress is occurring. If it was entirely within the dock, I don't know how the status would be available.


----------



## pl1

bciocco said:


> I am not Rich. But, I did do the upgrade with a dual docking station. I am not sure whether the pc is used or for what purpose. It did take about six hours to copy the information from one drive to the other using MFScopy. The drive lights on the dock flash rapidly and I did not hear and disk activity on my pc.
> I am thinking it uses the pc for something. The MFScopy program is able to tell me that progress is occurring. If it was entirely within the dock, I don't know how the status would be available.


That's what I was thinking. Thanks for the feedback. So, it does appear that the docking station is transferring data direct from drive to drive.

There is an option (I believe) to clone disk to disk with no PC. Would that work for a TiVo without WinMFS? I'm not sure. But, I might just try it, out of curiousity, since it should be an exact clone.


----------



## richsadams

cwerdna said:


> Dumb question.
> 
> I haven't opened up my Tivo HD nor Expander yet. From looking at the pics at http://www.gizmolovers.com/photos/tivo-hd-review-photos/, are the two SATA connectors on the motherboard identical?


IIRC both are standard SATA ports on the TiVo MB but I no longer have a TiVo HD to check. And you're right, it's hard to tell from the photo. The two ports are obviously a little different as are the cables, but I think they are both normal SATA ports. Perhaps someone can verify that?

I think a couple of folks here have connected an external multiple-drive array directly to the secondary SATA port. However I don't know if they used an eSATA > SATA or a SATA > SATA connection.

So you're proposing disconnecting the primary drive's SATA cable and swapping the eSATA cable into the primary SATA port on the MB (assuming they have matching ports)? I don't know if that would work or not. (I would disconnect the SATA/Power cable going to the primary drive so TiVo isn't powering it up if you do that.) The bridge in the enclosure may or may not affect TiVo's ability to "see" the eSATA drive as a primary drive. I don't know why it wouldn't work or why it would harm anything but I don't know if anyone has tried it either. I also don't see any reason that eventually installing it permanently wouldn't work either, but again, the whole eSATA/bridge thing might affect it somehow.

In any case, that would be a whole new twist on things and if it works certainly get you into the TiVo Pioneer's club!


----------



## richsadams

pl1 said:


> Hey Rich. Have you ever tried a dual dock copy yourself? I'm just curious, since I have not tried it. But according to what I've read, it can clone a drive within it's own device.
> 
> So my thought was, once you start the procedure (either via USB or eSATA), wouldn't the transfer occur within the docking station itself? Or do you think it would still have to go to the PC from the source and back for the destination? Just curious.
> 
> When I do get one, I can test it out. If there is no hdd light activity on the PC, that would be a good indication that it is not using the PC. I guess the best test would be to use a USB connection and see if it goes as fast as an SATA connection.


I haven't upgraded that way myself. I've always connected the drives directly to the MB on my computer. Since data throughput is much higher a direct SATA connection is much faster than a USB/SATA or eSATA connection if you're preserving the settings and recordings. However as bciocco and others here have posted, using a USB dual drive docking station does work quite nicely, it just takes a while longer.

Since the upgrade doesn't actually clone the drive the heavy lifting would still be handled by the PC's CPU and memory as it runs winMFS or MFSTools. The PC's HDD wouldn't necessarily be active for anything other than running the MFS program (and copying/restoring a truncated backup if you went that direction). Watching the activity in Task Manager (even better Process Explorer) will show you what's going on inside your computer even when the HDD is idle.



pl1 said:


> That's what I was thinking. Thanks for the feedback. So, it does appear that the docking station is transferring data direct from drive to drive.
> 
> There is an option (I believe) to clone disk to disk with no PC. Would that work for a TiVo without WinMFS? I'm not sure. But, I might just try it, out of curiousity, since it should be an exact clone.


No, as mentioned above, you're not cloning the drive. Some data is being copied over, but there are a number of other activities (partition changes, expansion, etc.) going on as well. If you were to clone the drive you would end up with the identical recording space, etc. on the new drive...and that would kind of defeat the purpose of upgrading.


----------



## pl1

richsadams said:


> No, as mentioned above, you're not cloning the drive. Some data is being copied over, but there are a number of other activities (partition changes, expansion, etc.) going on as well. If you were to clone the drive you would end up with the identical recording space, etc. on the new drive...and that would kind of defeat the purpose of upgrading.


OIC, OK, I guess I was thinking of running MFSADD after the clone (if the object was to increase the size and not just a clone).


----------



## cjv2

pl1 said:


> OIC, OK, I guess I was thinking of running MFSADD after the clone (if the object was to increase the size and not just a clone).


I tried that. Didn't work. In my case, the subsequent add operation blew up WinMFS and torched the partition table.

Even more interesting than that, the partition table on the pre-failed-MFSADD clone did not match the partition table I got out of doing a truncated backup/restore. I still have no idea why.

To be fair, the image tool I used could hypothetically have been at issue, but I really can't see how - pre-failed-MFSADD, the clone worked great.


----------



## richsadams

pl1 said:


> OIC, OK, I guess I was thinking of running MFSADD after the clone (if the object was to increase the size and not just a clone).


Sticking with the upgrade instructions and flow is just about the only way to guarantee a positive outcome. Of course as long as you keep your original backup (ideally the original hard drive itself) there's no harm in trying whatever you can imagine though. You can always start over again.


----------



## pl1

cjv2 said:


> I tried that. Didn't work. In my case, the subsequent add operation blew up WinMFS and torched the partition table.
> 
> Even more interesting than that, the partition table on the pre-failed-MFSADD clone did not match the partition table I got out of doing a truncated backup/restore. I still have no idea why.
> 
> To be fair, the image tool I used could hypothetically have been at issue, but I really can't see how - pre-failed-MFSADD, the clone worked great.


Hmm. I do remember you mentioning that earlier in this thread come to think of it.


----------



## pl1

richsadams said:


> Sticking with the upgrade instructions and flow is just about the only way to guarantee a positive outcome. Of course as long as you keep your original backup (ideally the original hard drive itself) there's no harm in trying whatever you can imagine though. You can always start over again.


I hear ya. No sense reinventing the wheel. WinMFS does a great job as it stands. I don't know any other utility (for anything) that is that easy and works as fast as it does.


----------



## cjv2

pl1 said:


> Hmm. I do remember you mentioning that earlier in this thread come to think of it.


Yep. I'd love to know why it didn't work. Have never figured it out.


----------



## pl1

cjv2 said:


> Yep. I'd love to know why it didn't work. Have never figured it out.


I'll give it a shot. I have two extra 1t drives to play with. I can clone an original 250g to a 1t and try mfsadd. I'll let you know once I get the dual dock in a couple weeks (from Hong Kong or somewhere like that).


----------



## cjv2

pl1 said:


> I'll give it a shot. I have two extra 1t drives to play with. I can clone an original 250g to a 1t and try mfsadd. I'll let you know once I get the dual dock in a couple weeks (from Hong Kong or somewhere like that).


Awesome. Please do. In the name of science.  :up:


----------



## ayman86

question for you all.

i bought a used tivohd with lifetime service and warranty til jan2013. would *you* forgo the warranty and upgrade the internal drive to 1TB or stick with the 160GB?

how often to tivohds go bad (besides the hdd as youll have a backup)?


----------



## Spenner

I'd use it for a few weeks to make sure it's OK, then upgrade the drive. Save the original one, and if anything ever goes wrong, just swap the original back in. It's the same warranty risk we all take when we upgrade a Tivo bought new.

If you're recording HD, the original drive is next to useless with only 20 hrs capacity.


----------



## richsadams

ayman86 said:


> question for you all.
> 
> i bought a used tivohd with lifetime service and warranty til jan2013. would *you* forgo the warranty and upgrade the internal drive to 1TB or stick with the 160GB?
> 
> how often to tivohds go bad (besides the hdd as youll have a backup)?


I'd echo Spenner's recommendation...be sure it's working properly for a little while then upgrade. Although TiVo is aware of the upgrade (reflected in their logs) they tend to turn a blind eye if something else goes wrong that wasn't associated. If you call for support and mention the upgrade that's the end of the conversation. But if you keep the original drive you can always reinstall it for a return. FWIW hard drive failure is the number one TiVo problem (by far). Odds are there's nothing else that will give you any trouble.

Enjoy your new TiVo!


----------



## ayman86

thanks for the suggestions.


----------



## justen_m

I had my TivoHD only 5 months before I decided to do a 1tb internal upgrade. I don't care about the warranty. All the Tivo failures I've seen have been hard drive related, so I really just backed up my system with an upgrade. People with lifetime will probably disagree, but for a monthly puke like me, it was a no brainer.

[edit] echo spenner EDIT or My Expander related.


----------



## lex3001

This has been bugging me for a while since it is not in the FAQ, but I wanted everyone to know.

I took my new stock TiVo HD 160GB drive and upgraded it with WinMFS to a 1.5TB drive. I supersized.

This took me up to 180 HD hours according to TiVo. This is about what you would expect with usable space of 1.26 TB (see the FAQ if you have no idea what I am talking about... its the 1.1TB partition limit plus the original 160GB partition size = 1.26TB total usable space).

DRUM ROLL PLEASE...

I decided to use a different 1.5TB drive in the TiVo and used WinMFS to copy the first 1.5TB drive to the new 1.5TB drive. I followed all instructions and chose NOT to expand the partitions beyond TiVo's capacity, as advised.

When I booted up with my second 1.5TB drive, the TiVo now has 198 HD hours (!!). Where'd that extra 18 hours come from? Seems to correspond to an extra 10-12GB or so of usable space. So not all 1.5 TB yet, but at least 1.35 to 1.37 TB.

Anyone have a good explanation for this? Is my TiVo on crack, or did I just score the jackpot of free HD recording space? I wonder, if I did yet another copy in WinMFS to another 1.5TB drive what would happen... ;-)


----------



## cliffdwelling

All's well with my WD10EARS 1TB upgrade. Plugged it in today and it booted up fine. It was making a little more clicking noises than I liked and remembered that I hadn't set the AAM .

I downloaded WinAAM and the setting was 204
.
After setting to 128 and inserting back into the Tivo Box it has been churning away recording March Madness all day.

I wish that I had upgraded a long time ago. It is great to not have to worry about recording space ---at least for the time being.

I got an incredible deal on this drive and hope it stands the test of time
An incredible 50.00 upgrade!:up:

Thanks for all the help.


----------



## richsadams

lex3001 said:


> I took my new stock TiVo HD 160GB drive and upgraded it with WinMFS to a 1.5TB drive. I supersized.
> 
> This took me up to 180 HD hours according to TiVo. This is about what you would expect with usable space of 1.26 TB (see the FAQ if you have no idea what I am talking about... its the 1.1TB partition limit plus the original 160GB partition size = 1.26TB total usable space).
> 
> DRUM ROLL PLEASE...
> 
> I decided to use a different 1.5TB drive in the TiVo and used WinMFS to copy the first 1.5TB drive to the new 1.5TB drive. I followed all instructions and chose NOT to expand the partitions beyond TiVo's capacity, as advised.
> 
> When I booted up with my second 1.5TB drive, the TiVo now has 198 HD hours (!!). Where'd that extra 18 hours come from? Seems to correspond to an extra 10-12GB or so of usable space. So not all 1.5 TB yet, but at least 1.35 to 1.37 TB.


Per Section V, #5 of the FAQ you're exactly where you're supposed to be, 1.26TB total. If TiVo only showed 180 HD recording hours the first time you upgraded, Supersize did not take (even though you may have clicked on it).

Enjoy the new real estate!


----------



## richsadams

cliffdwelling said:


> All's well with my WD10EARS 1TB upgrade. Plugged it in today and it booted up fine.


Sweet! :up: Did you disable the Intellipark "feature" (or extend the time out)?

Enjoy!


----------



## Brighton Line

Last night I installed a Hitachi 1 TB Deskstar SATA 7200 RPM HD31000, I can't beleive how easy it was and I copied over all my recorded programs.

My only questions was with this 1TB drive in a Series 3 it is reporting only 142 Hours of HD available to record. Anyone have any ideas this is less then what is reported in the beginning of this thread (Section IV #6)?

TIA


----------



## rocko

Brighton Line said:


> Last night I installed a Hitachi 1 TB Deskstar SATA 7200 RPM HD31000, I can't beleive how easy it was and I copied over all my recorded programs.
> 
> My only questions was with this 1TB drive in a Series 3 it is reporting only 142 Hours of HD available to record. Anyone have any ideas this is less then what is reported in the beginning of this thread (Section IV #6)?
> 
> TIA


Ummm, maybe because you forgot to supersize it?

FWIW, you can supersize it without hurting/redoing the upgrade.


----------



## rainbow

ayman86 said:


> question for you all.
> 
> i bought a used tivohd with lifetime service and warranty til jan2013. would *you* forgo the warranty and upgrade the internal drive to 1TB or stick with the 160GB?
> 
> how often to tivohds go bad (besides the hdd as youll have a backup)?


If you can get a good deal on a dual deck, it would be worth the little bit of extra $ to go with that, rather than those pesky usb-to-estate/ide adapters.

I ended up spending more $ than I should have as I had orig ordered 1 adapter:down:; then had to order a 2nd as I wanted to transfer recordings as well.

The adapters come with no instructions, and if you don't really know what you are doing, they could be hooked up incorrectly; or worse. Also, the ones I got were cheap and reflected that in their quality.

I got the Cavalry dual deck:up: that bciocco had found a good buy on and provided a link to (see post #5226). It arrived last nt, and was a breeze
to use. After the hrs the previous wknd I had wasted trying to get those adapters to work correctly, it was a pleasure to see how that dock worked.

I did double check that link and buy.com is no longer offering that deck - thank God I jumped on it when I did. Guess it might have been a close-out or something, so thanks bciocco :up:

Anyway, thought I would post my experience. If someone else had posted an experience like this previously, I might have saved myself some time/effort/$.


----------



## cliffdwelling

richsadams said:


> Sweet! :up: Did you disable the Intellipark "feature" (or extend the time out)?
> 
> Enjoy!


 Yes, bootable CD with wdidle3.exe, right?

Everything reported right as per instructions .

I had my computers' hard drive installed at the same time and it tried to reset it, 
but reported that it wasn't a WD drive and I hope did not change any of its' settings.

I must have missed the warning or skipped a step per instructions.


----------



## richsadams

cliffdwelling said:


> Yes, bootable CD with wdidle3.exe, right?
> 
> Everything reported right as per instructions .
> 
> I had my computers' hard drive installed at the same time and it tried to reset it,
> but reported that it wasn't a WD drive and I hope did not change any of its' settings.
> 
> I must have missed the warning or skipped a step per instructions.


Sounds good. If your PC's drive is not WD it shouldn't have affected it. Enjoy!


----------



## bkdtv

I just got a pm suggesting the new 11.0f software update is compatible with Western Digital "Green" drives without disabling Intellipark.

Can someone with this new software test and confirm?


----------



## HazelW

Can you supersize an instantcake install, or does it just work with a WinMFS install?


----------



## bkdtv

HazelW said:


> Can you supersize an instantcake install, or does it just work with a WinMFS install?


You can "Supersize" an InstantCake install using WinMFS. There is no way to "Supersize" from within the InstantCake software.


----------



## richsadams

bkdtv said:


> I just got a pm suggesting the new 11.0f software update is compatible with Western Digital "Green" drives without disabling Intellipark.
> 
> Can someone with this new software test and confirm?


That would be very good news indeed. Hopefully someone that's ready to upgrade with a new WD drive can hold off until they receive the v11.0f update and then try it.

Did they mention any additional update features?


----------



## rocko

richsadams said:


> That would be very good news indeed. Hopefully someone that's ready to upgrade with a new WD drive can hold off until they receive the v11.0f update and then try it.
> 
> Did they mention any additional update features?


Or we could bump the Intellipark value back down on a box that already has 11.0f. Not me, tho ...


----------



## cherry ghost

bkdtv said:


> I just got a pm suggesting the new 11.0f software update is compatible with Western Digital "Green" drives without disabling Intellipark.
> 
> Can someone with this new software test and confirm?


Any chance it was a pm from a TiVo employee?

If true, I'll probably get one and save my Hitachi for something else since I haven't gotten around to doing the upgrade yet.


----------



## bkdtv

cherry ghost said:


> Any chance it was a pm from a TiVo employee?


No, it was just a regular member who added a new WD10EADS under 11.0f without disabling Intellipark. They didn't mention anything else. If someone can confirm that, I'll update the first post.

I already deleted the message as my inbox is nearly full (148/150).


----------



## pl1

Nevermind.


----------



## MPSAN

OK, here is the question, and an update Rich asked for.....

I have 3 THD's and Rich told me it was OK to update one of them to 1 TB after I only had it a few weeks.  I made and old TRUNCATED backup of this original 160GB drive and all was OK. I just had a disaster after 8 months. TiVo support asked me to swap the locations of two of my three THD's and all went well. It reset the LAN's so that all 3 THD's were OK again with MRV.

The problem was that when I put them back, one of them locked up with reboots, etc and I had a gray screen. Yup, it happened to be the 1 TB upgrade one. So, I put the 160 GB drive back in and all was OK. I then wrote all ZEROS to my WD10EADS and it too was OK again after I did a 2 drive upgrade with WINmfs again.

So, here are a few suggestions and a question.

First what I have are 3 THD's on a wired network with STATIC IP's. The original issue after 8 months was that one of the THD's kept dropping the other 2 units from the NP list. I swapped rooms as support said that this would both reset the THD's (I power cycled the one I left alone) and tell me if the issue stayed with one unit. That worked and when I swapped them back, the 1 TB unit died and I had a bunch of shows on it, but it would not stay up for long. So here is what I learned.....

1. BEST WAY TO POWER DOWN. 
If a TiVo is running and you can get to the settings area, tell it to reboot...when the Welcome screen comes up, you can unplug it. That is because there will be no disk write activity at that point.

2. HOW I RECOVERED MY SHOWS.
I thought about what may have been going on when I "crashed" the 1TB TiVo before following the above POWER DOWN suggestion. The "bad" drive would boot the THD but after about 30 minutes it would lock up. I thought that any WRITES to the HDD would be from the tuner(s) buffering data to the HDD. 
So, I turned it off with the "bad" HDD still in it and removed the antenna. When it came back up, there was nothing to buffer as the coax was off. At that point I was able to transfer all of the shows!!

3. IF MRV FAILS.
Power off all THD's and remove the LAN cable(s). Power them back up, and when all are ready again, reconnect the LAN cable.

OK, now to my question about a Truncated Backup. I am posting all of this here as it mostly pertains to those of us who have opened our TiVo's. Remember, I have 3 THD's and use Static IP's.

So, here is the question. I am on Verizon FIOS and they do NOT pair M-Cards. I can take 1 and put it anywhere. So, here is the question based on the above. Can I take a good Truncated Image from the Family_Room THD, and restore it to the Bedroom if that untouched THD ever goes bad? Of course I would have the LAN disconnected when I first power back up. I understand that in my case the CableCard will not be an issue (Thank you FIOS), but if I then rename the THD unit from Family_Room to Bedroom, and then change the Static IP to the one the Bedroom uses, before I reconnect the LAN should that work? Is there anything in the Truncated Backup file that would be specific to the original units backup.

OH, I also have lifetime service on all 3 THD's.

Sorry this is long, but it shows the proper way to power down, a way too perhaps fix MRV issues, a way that may save shows from a bad HDD, and a way (if on FIOS) that 1 backup may be used for more than 1 THD.


----------



## Kevin R

Well, finally got all my ducks in a row and upgraded to the WD10EVDS today.
Everything went surprisingly well except when I put it back together I forgot to run the wires back through the twisty wire holder there on the drive base.
With as short a run as the wires are, I know it won't cause any problems, but it's disappointing to have everything go so well and leave one stupid thing undone. 

Anyway, the only surprises were:

1) My fault, but I couldn't get it to select the location to save the backup to. Ended up that it wanted me to come up with a name for the back up and I was just expecting to select a location and have it use a default name or something.

2)Since the back up only does the system stuff and not the programs, I assumed there would be nothing on it when loaded. Didn't realize that it would keep all the shows listed, and I would have to delete them from the shows area and then the deleted folder. I could have let them roll out of the deleted file, but with 157hrs of HD, that wouldn't happen soon, and this is much cleaner. 
Really had me excited at first. 
I though cool, now I don't have to transfer my shows back. 
Realized what was up after I tried a couple shows and it said the shows weren't there.

All that's left now is to transfer everything back from Tivo Desktop. It took almost 24 hrs to move it up, I would hope it wouldn't take that long down, but I know that's a pipe dream.

Anyway, thanks to all the great people and info on this site. It really couldn't have gone any smoother.
If I had done it a day later I could have checked out the new update for you to see if it fixed the issue with intellipark. Too bad I saw it 6 hrs too late.

Kevin R


----------



## cwerdna

MPSAN said:


> 1. BEST WAY TO POWER DOWN.
> If a TiVo is running and you can get to the settings area, tell it to reboot...when the Welcome screen comes up, you can unplug it. That is because there will be no disk write activity at that point.
> ...
> Sorry this is long, but it shows the proper way to power down,


Although I agree w/your reasoning, but FWIW, when the Tivo CTO gave a lecture at UC Berkeley about the service before Series 2s existed (referenced at http://db.tidbits.com/article/6547?print_version=1) he mentioned that the engineers originally wanted to put some sort of shutdown or power switch on the device to which he insisted no! He basically said it's a consumer device and it must be able to tolerate the power going out whenever.


----------



## dt100

Another big thanks to the great folks on this forum. Upgrade with the 7k1000.c went great without any problems. I followed the instructions on the first post to the tee.
I was a little concerned about the temperature of this new drive. After a few days of monitoring, the temps are the same as with the stock drive. I have the tivo in a cabinet - I know I am not supposed to do that, but it is what works in my setup. With the door halfway open, the temp is 37, sometimes 38. With it closed, the temp is 42. Since that reads as "normal," I figure is it ok.
I could not wait for my cheapo usb adapters to arrive from Hong Kong, so I ordered the dual dock recommended a few pages back. Meanwhile,
one of my two cheapo adapters arrived today. I connected another drive I had to test it out. I copied some files to/from the drive to the computer, and there were no problems. I suspect it would be perfectly fine for a tivo upgrade. I would not want to use it frequently, but for very occasional use it is fine. 
Thanks again.


----------



## rainbow

I have 2 series 3 tivos - 1 without current svc, and so unused right now, that has some summer olympics prgms stored,and the other that is lifetimed which is the one I actively use.

I just used the unused tivo hd to image the 1T that I got, and also moved over the Olympics prgms. 

My question - can I now use the -mfscopy- pgrm with the currently used 250hd so I can also add the pgrms I have currently stored over to the 1T HD.

I assume that would add a 2nd tivo image on to that hd. Would that cause any problems with functionality?


----------



## MPSAN

cwerdna said:


> Although I agree w/your reasoning, but FWIW, when the Tivo CTO gave a lecture at UC Berkeley about the service before Series 2s existed (referenced at http://db.tidbits.com/article/6547?print_version=1) he mentioned that the engineers originally wanted to put some sort of shutdown or power switch on the device to which he insisted no! He basically said it's a consumer device and it must be able to tolerate the power going out whenever.


I agree! TiVo does say that the Hardware design will tolerate a "crash" of power. However, it seems that killing the power with no write activity to the HDD is better than just pulling the plug.


----------



## yukit

I have been using this drive in a HDXL since last Nov/Dec (I did the upgrade during the holidays)

We had a power failure in our area on Fri. When the power came back on, the Tivo was stuck in "Powering On" screen for several hours. I had to hard-reboot the unit 4 or 5 times before it can eventually get to "Please wait a moment" screen. It has been working fine since.

This is the first time I experienced any type of reboot problem (hard or soft) with this drive. The firmware of the HDXL is 11.0d-01-2-658, so I don't think I have a different firmware since the drive upgrade.

I am not sure if there is any known "drive park" issues with Hitachi drives. Just a heads up for others that may encounter similar hang with this Hitachi drive.


----------



## lrhorer

MPSAN said:


> 1. BEST WAY TO POWER DOWN.
> If a TiVo is running and you can get to the settings area, tell it to reboot...when the Welcome screen comes up, you can unplug it. That is because there will be no disk write activity at that point.


Well, it really doesn't matter. All of the Linux partitions are read-only, except for /var, and /var can be totally obliterated without fatally impacting the system. There are never any writes going to the OS partitions, so one won't turn the unit into a brick by a dirty shutdown. Meanwhile, the MFS data is written in an append-only mode. This means when the data write is suddenly interrupted, the files are truncated (compared to what they would have been), but not corrupted in any other way. The bottom line is pulling the plug won't destroy the TiVo.


----------



## RayChuang88

Which does remind me--besides the WD _My DVR Expander_ external drive, are there plans for TiVo to certify the Seagate _Showcase_ eSATA external drive for use by the TiVo HD or Premiere DVR's?


----------



## larrs

I have a Blacx duet dual drive system and it works great to store videos on my computer. I was wondering if it would also work with my S3 as an external drive? I am going through my third enclosure (this one is Antec) since I put an external drive on my S3 and my Sci-Atl HD8300 before that (fan is starting to get noisy which seems to always happen with these before failure). 

Just wondering if I can eliminate the fan problem...


----------



## gages97

The saga continues. I took a 1TB Hitachi and did the InstantCake on it.

Instankcake asked me if I wanted to expand the partition and I said yes. Everything worked fine but the unit says I have less space available than I do on my 750Gb on my other Series 3. 

I did an MFScopy from the new drive to another Hitachi 1TB, copy works fine, but MFSadd fails with an error.

Any ideas on how to expand the drive?


----------



## richsadams

RayChuang88 said:


> Which does remind me--besides the WD _My DVR Expander_ external drive, are there plans for TiVo to certify the Seagate _Showcase_ eSATA external drive for use by the TiVo HD or Premiere DVR's?


There would obviously be a number of costs involved to add and support another line of drives from a manufacturer with which TiVo has almost a decade-long relationship (WD), much less a line from another manufacturer. There would certainly be an impact on their existing supplier relationship as well.

The Premier's have already begun shipping. When you order one you have the option of buying external storage (the 1TB WD My DVR Expander). One would surmise that if TiVo had any plans to support another eSATA drive they would have made the move already.

All things considered, I don't think it will come to pass, but of course the bottom line is money/profit so you never know.


----------



## richsadams

larrs said:


> I have a Blacx duet dual drive system and it works great to store videos on my computer. I was wondering if it would also work with my S3 as an external drive?


I've often wondered that myself. I suppose the only way to find out would be to pop in a SATA drive, connect the dock to your Series3 and see if TiVo recognizes it. I suspect there might be an issue since your dock is capable of supporting two drives (which a computer can see, but perhaps not TiVo). But if that doesn't work, maybe a single drive dock might? Hard to say without giving it a shot. So thanks for volunteering and let us know how it goes! 

EDIT: Don't forget, if you do connect an eSATA drive to your Series3 TiVo will format it. I'm not sure if that happens initially/immediately or at the moment that you give it three thumbs up, etc. but I wouldn't connect a drive on which there is anything you want to keep.


----------



## richsadams

Just as an FYI for anyone that that's using an Antec MX-1 eSATA enclosure, here is a link to a post by a TCF member (dianebrat) that figured out how to clean and/or replace a noisy fan:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7836726#post7836726


----------



## gages97

1. Can a single drive be connected to the external sata connection and no drive on the internal?

2. Any way to get a raid solution to work? I am sick and tired of losing my programming every 2 years or so.


----------



## dpavlako

Can anyone tell me how to actually use this program? I got it because my hdd died and I can't seem to get it to work. Evidently I need to be able to tell it EXACTLY where my dvd and the hdd are in linux and it seems I have no idea of how to find out where they are. I tried all of their suggestions but none seemed to work. 

Any help would be appreciated


----------



## richsadams

gages97 said:


> 1. Can a single drive be connected to the external sata connection and no drive on the internal?
> 
> 2. Any way to get a raid solution to work? I am sick and tired of losing my programming every 2 years or so.


Q1 would be no. TiVo looks to the primary SATA connection to find the boot partitions. Q2 would be a maybe. IIRC someone (or possibly a couple of someones) managed to do a RAID 1 configuration a while back with a direct connection to the second SATA port on the MB. You'd have to do some searching to find it.


----------



## MPSAN

lrhorer said:


> Well, it really doesn't matter. All of the Linux partitions are read-only, except for /var, and /var can be totally obliterated without fatally impacting the system. There are never any writes going to the OS partitions, so one won't turn the unit into a brick by a dirty shutdown. Meanwhile, the MFS data is written in an append-only mode. This means when the data write is suddenly interrupted, the files are truncated (compared to what they would have been), but not corrupted in any other way. The bottom line is pulling the plug won't destroy the TiVo.


I did not say it would destroy the TiVo. I did not even imply that the OS would have an issue. What I did say was that when this happened my unit DID come back up (OS GOOD), but for only about a 20 minute +/- period of time. The tuner buffering does write to the buffer area, and that can cause a problem. As I said, when I pulled the antenna, the unit then stayed on without a reboot, for 5+ hours...long enough to get my shows transferred. This, to me, meant that the HDD had an issue in that area. My proper way to pull the plug, I believe, should avoid that.

Anyway, I thought it was a good idea and can not hurt.


----------



## cwerdna

richsadams said:


> IIRC both are standard SATA ports on the TiVo MB but I no longer have a TiVo HD to check. And you're right, it's hard to tell from the photo. The two ports are obviously a little different as are the cables, but I think they are both normal SATA ports. Perhaps someone can verify that?
> ...
> So you're proposing disconnecting the primary drive's SATA cable and swapping the eSATA cable into the primary SATA port on the MB (assuming they have matching ports)? I don't know if that would work or not. (I would disconnect the SATA/Power cable going to the primary drive so TiVo isn't powering it up if you do that.) The bridge in the enclosure may or may not affect TiVo's ability to "see" the eSATA drive as a primary drive. I don't know why it wouldn't work or why it would harm anything but I don't know if anyone has tried it either. I also don't see any reason that eventually installing it permanently wouldn't work either, but again, the whole eSATA/bridge thing might affect it somehow.


I've verified that the two SATA connectors on the mobo are physically identical. I disconnected the (probably bad) 160 gig stock A drive and moved the eSATA header connector over to it.

I was able to put an image via winmfs onto my DVR Expander and it's been running fine after guided setup, clearing and deleting all (whoops, forgot about the "locking" of drives to a TSN), guided setup again, letting it upgrade to 11.0d, and making a few recordings. So far so good.

So, I guess I'm a "pioneer" for now. Once my DVR Expander's warranty is over, we'll see what happens when I try to move the drive internally.

BTW, I received my SIIG CB-SA0111-S1 1m cable and it honestly doesn't seem to "snap in" much better than the stock DVR Expander cable they ship with now. In fact, the original cable snaps in whereas the SIIG cable just seems to go in w/more friction. Anyhow, I'm using the SIIG cable now, just for good measure. I ordered mine from http://www.walmart.com/ip/SIIG-eSATA-to-eSATA-cable-1m/10884515.


----------



## larrs

richsadams said:


> I've often wondered that myself. I suppose the only way to find out would be to pop in a SATA drive, connect the dock to your Series3 and see if TiVo recognizes it. I suspect there might be an issue since your dock is capable of supporting two drives (which a computer can see, but perhaps not TiVo). But if that doesn't work, maybe a single drive dock might? Hard to say without giving it a shot. So thanks for volunteering and let us know how it goes!
> 
> EDIT: Don't forget, if you do connect an eSATA drive to your Series3 TiVo will format it. I'm not sure if that happens initially/immediately or at the moment that you give it three thumbs up, etc. but I wouldn't connect a drive on which there is anything you want to keep.


I have a WD 1TB drive on order. When it gets here, I will unhook my duet and give it a try. I can't do it with an exisiting drive as they all have too much stuff on them.

I am wondering if the drives will stay cool enough. On my computer, they are not spinning all of the time.


----------



## richsadams

cwerdna said:


> I've verified that the two SATA connectors on the mobo are physically identical. I disconnected the (probably bad) 160 gig stock A drive and moved the eSATA header connector over to it.
> 
> I was able to put an image via winmfs onto my DVR Expander and it's been running fine after guided setup, clearing and deleting all (whoops, forgot about the "locking" of drives to a TSN), guided setup again, letting it upgrade to 11.0d, and making a few recordings. So far so good.


Nice work and good to know. :up: I'd think things will be fine once you move the drive internally.

The early eSATA cables that were included with the 500GB WD My DVR Expanders were just shy of awful according to most folks. There were a lot of RMA's that boiled down to a faulty cable so I'm sure they've improved things by now.

BTW, we'll forgive you for shopping at the Evil Empire for the cable. 

Enjoy!


----------



## richsadams

larrs said:


> I am wondering if the drives will stay cool enough. On my computer, they are not spinning all of the time.


I would think that if it's one of WD's GP (green) drives and if you have some ventilation it should stay pretty cool since a good deal of the drive is exposed. Let us know how it goes!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> I did not say it would destroy the TiVo.


Oh 'comon now...if you can't destroy something, where's the fun in that? A _real_ man could do it!


----------



## greg_burns

richsadams said:


> Q2 would be a maybe. IIRC someone (or possibly a couple of someones) managed to do a RAID 1 configuration a while back with a direct connection to the second SATA port on the MB. You'd have to do some searching to find it.


Yeah, I tried that back in the day with the original S3. 

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=318604&page=3

My recommendation, don't use a Thecus N2050. Got way to hot for my tastes.

Some others tried it as well...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=327556


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Oh 'comon now...if you can't destroy something, where's the fun in that? A _real_ man could do it!


Well, once the cover is off the THD it is very easy to destroy it! A few years ago we blew up a PC on July 4th. One of the guys in the neighborhood does this for a living for Movie special effects! His stuff is so loud that even the kids run away!


----------



## richsadams

greg_burns said:


> Yeah, I tried that back in the day with the original S3.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=318604&page=3
> 
> My recommendation, don't use a Thecus N2050. Got way to hot for my tastes.
> 
> Some others tried it as well...
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=327556


What a great memory! :up: (I mean yours, not the memories of trying to increase TiVo's recording capacity in somewhat unorthodox ways. Although that does bring back some, um, interesting recollections.  )


----------



## RayChuang88

richsadams said:


> There would obviously be a number of costs involved to add and support another line of drives from a manufacturer with which TiVo has almost a decade-long relationship (WD), much less a line from another manufacturer. There would certainly be an impact on their existing supplier relationship as well.


I'm disappointed because I would like to see more than just WD offering eSATA expansion drives that work directly with a TiVo HD/Premiere DVR.


----------



## richsadams

RayChuang88 said:


> I'm disappointed because I would like to see more than just WD offering eSATA expansion drives that work directly with a TiVo HD/Premiere DVR.


Agreed...that would be a plus. :up:


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Well, once the cover is off the THD it is very easy to destroy it! A few years ago we blew up a PC on July 4th. One of the guys in the neighborhood does this for a living for Movie special effects! His stuff is so loud that even the kids run away!


Reminds me of the scene in "Office" where they destroy the copier...still love that one. "What does PC Load Letter" mean anyway? Piece of...."


----------



## LockRob

RayChuang88 said:


> I'm disappointed because I would like to see more than just WD offering eSATA expansion drives that work directly with a TiVo HD/Premiere DVR.


I would like to see them support the one they say is supported. When I had to ask a question of a Tivo rep (about a 1 terabyte WD "My DVR Expander" he questioned whether it was a supported model. He said (something like) "Just because it says Tivo compatible on the box, doesn't mean it is"
OH, well...and that is why I bought that particular drive. I got it working after an initial bump in the road.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

I finally got around to upgrading two TiVo HD boxes to larger internal capacity. The instructions in the first post are great. Thanks.

However, I ran into a problem, which took me a few minutes to figure out and solve. This may stump some newbies, so I think it needs to go into the first post.

Summary: *If you put a newly expanded drive into a different TiVo, you must perform a Clear & delete everything at your first opportunity.* This information is nowhere in the first post, and yet it is needed by people who are replacing dead drives, rather than just upgrading the same box with a larger capacity drive.

For the record, in case someone searches after similar problems, here's the long backstory ...

I bought two new Hitachi 1 TB drives from Fry's (drives discussed a few days ago). They work fine. I ran through Hitachi's Drive Fitness Test to verify basic functionality and I used Hitachi's Feature Tool to set the acoustic level. I used WinMFS without problems.

I put the first new drive back into the TiVo HD the original drive came from, and had no problems upon restart. I had 157 hours of HD capacity, my season passes were intact, my recorded programs were there.

The second drive was the problem. I put it into a *different TiVo HD.* You would think that the software would recognize that it's connected to a different motherboard, and give a clear error message. Or you would think that the software would figure out what happened and fix itself. But you would be wrong.

Instead, TiVo chose the lazy alternative of "half-assed" working. The system boots, but then behaves badly. Some functions work, e.g. you can see that you have 157 hours of capacity, you can set your network address and connect to the TiVo service, you can change your channel lineup. But other functions don't work.

After you boot up, you see a message that tells you that a hardware problem occured, and you must reboot your machine. Ignore that. Nothing changes if you reboot.

The key is *"Error #51"*. A quick search at TiVo Community tells you that you moved a drive to a different system, and so you must *Clear & delete everything* to start anew. Simple and effective.


----------



## mchief

I give up - What did you do to the SECOND HD. If you used MFSlive to copy BOTH drives from ONE ORIGINAL, then you would have probems. Otherwise your problems/comments make no sense.


----------



## cjv2

LockRob said:


> I would like to see them support the one they say is supported. When I had to ask a question of a Tivo rep (about a 1 terabyte WD "My DVR Expander" he questioned whether it was a supported model. He said (something like) "Just because it says Tivo compatible on the box, doesn't mean it is"
> OH, well...and that is why I bought that particular drive. I got it working after an initial bump in the road.


Uh, Didn't TiVo sell that expander on the TiVo website at one point? And market it as "the only one supported?"


----------



## lex3001

richsadams said:


> That would be very good news indeed. Hopefully someone that's ready to upgrade with a new WD drive can hold off until they receive the v11.0f update and then try it.
> 
> Did they mention any additional update features?


According to TiVo, 11.0d is the latest. You can't request anything with the priority update feature.

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/311

So maybe this isn't widely available yet, if indeed it is available at all? I'll force a connect anyway ;-)


----------



## cjv2

lex3001 said:


> So maybe this isn't widely available yet, if indeed it is available at all? I'll force a connect anyway ;-)


Somewhere buried in some thread in the forum is a note from a VP of product development at Tivo that indicates it's not only available but should be out to all users within a month (or by the end of the month, I forget which). The post made no reference to Intellipark though, so couldn't tell you whether it addresses the issue.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

mchief said:


> I give up - What did you do to the SECOND HD. If you used MFSlive to copy BOTH drives from ONE ORIGINAL, then you would have probems. Otherwise your problems/comments make no sense.


Yes of course that's what I did. Sorry to be unclear. Two reasons:

1) the 2nd TiVo had previously been screwed up and flaky (it's working now with the new disk). I believe the flakiness happened because a bad WD DVR expander hosed the internal disk. Others have reported this problem (external screws up internal). That's why I didn't want to use its original disk. So I needed a known good image. Clearly, using the image from the 1st TiVo was much cheaper than paying $40 for InstantCake.

2) Even if the 2nd TiVo's original disk were OK, it would have been more work to use it as a source than to just make a second copy from the file that WinMFS saved.

My point is that *Clear & delete everything* takes care of this situation. IMO this isn't an uncommon scenario and that's why it belongs in the first post of this thread.


----------



## richsadams

Phantom Gremlin said:


> My point is that *Clear & delete everything* takes care of this situation. IMO this isn't an uncommon scenario and that's why it belongs in the first post of this thread.


One more item of note is that IIRC you're on VZ FIOS. VZ doesn't pair cable cards (to TiVo or TV's) but all other cableco's do. If you were to run a C&DE prior to a _regular_ upgrade it would be akin to creating a brand new TiVo as it will erase all Season Passes, WishLists and cable card settings. Just wanted to clarify in case someone stumbles across the info regarding your two-TiVo upgrade and fails to read the fine print.

Glad to hear things are working well now. Those Hitachi's are quickly becoming my drive of choice. Enjoy!


----------



## richsadams

lex3001 said:


> According to TiVo, 11.0d is the latest. You can't request anything with the priority update feature.
> 
> http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/311
> 
> So maybe this isn't widely available yet, if indeed it is available at all? I'll force a connect anyway ;-)


TiVo initially distributes updates to a select, small number of boxes to gauge feedback about any issues called in to support. If everything goes well a full rollout commences about two-weeks later and generally takes about three weeks to complete. I'd expect 11.0f to start showing up for most folks in a few weeks or so.


----------



## richsadams

cjv2 said:


> Somewhere buried in some thread in the forum is a note from a VP of product development at Tivo that indicates it's not only available but should be out to all users within a month (or by the end of the month, I forget which). The post made no reference to Intellipark though, so couldn't tell you whether it addresses the issue.


I think you're referring to Margret Schmidt's post about 11.0f resolving MRV issues:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7833681#post7833681



> 11.F has begun rolling out to customers and should fix this issue. All TiVo HD/Series3 DVRs should have the new release by the end of the month. Please let me know if you still experience the problem after your TiVo updates.


Since TiVo doesn't support and/or recommend upgrades, I seriously doubt if anyone from TiVo will ever comment about the Intellipark issue.

EDIT: I should have mentioned that TiVo did address the soft reboot issue with the HDXL's which one can only assume was the same Intellipark problem we've run into. I don't think it's a big leap to think that they would include the same code in v11.0f, but only time will tell.

So we'll see if we all get it by month's end!


----------



## MPSAN

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Yes of course that's what I did. Sorry to be unclear. Two reasons:
> 
> 1) the 2nd TiVo had previously been screwed up and flaky (it's working now with the new disk). I believe the flakiness happened because a bad WD DVR expander hosed the internal disk. Others have reported this problem (external screws up internal). That's why I didn't want to use its original disk. So I needed a known good image. Clearly, using the image from the 1st TiVo was much cheaper than paying $40 for InstantCake.
> 
> 2) Even if the 2nd TiVo's original disk were OK, it would have been more work to use it as a source than to just make a second copy from the file that WinMFS saved.
> 
> My point is that *Clear & delete everything* takes care of this situation. IMO this isn't an uncommon scenario and that's why it belongs in the first post of this thread.


Phantom, did you change the Unit name before connecting the LAN? I know you changed the IP, but did not mention the name of the Unit...Like BedRoom, etc.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

MPSAN said:


> Phantom, did you change the Unit name before connecting the LAN? I know you changed the IP, but did not mention the name of the Unit...Like BedRoom, etc.


I don't think you can change the name from the TiVo itself; you must do it from your account on tivo.com. And then it takes days, rather than hours. Possibly involves some reboots.

Anyway, I think the name is a whimsy; just something to make your life easier. If it's more than that, I'm in trouble. Because, just a few hours ago, I swapped the names of two units around to match where they ended up, ie something like: BedRoom became Den, Den became BedRoom. I'm living dangerously, but I'm hoping this won't break anything.


----------



## cwerdna

Phantom Gremlin said:


> However, I ran into a problem, which took me a few minutes to figure out and solve. This may stump some newbies, so I think it needs to go into the first post.
> 
> Summary: *If you put a newly expanded drive into a different TiVo, you must perform a Clear & delete everything at your first opportunity.* This information is nowhere in the first post, and yet it is needed by people who are replacing dead drives, rather than just upgrading the same box with a larger capacity drive.
> ...
> The key is *"Error #51"*. A quick search at TiVo Community tells you that you moved a drive to a different system, and so you must *Clear & delete everything* to start anew. Simple and effective.


Yep. I'm no newbie but I ran into this the first time I was helping someone w/a Series 2 w/a dead drive and had to make an image from a friend's working Series 2. Ugh... it was quite a puzzle until I looked it up and remembered the whole clear and delete jazz.

I don't recall this being an issue w/Series 1s (used Dylan's boot disk and BlessTiVo IIRC)... but then again, I was never dealing w/foreign TiVos. The backups I made always came from the unit itself. Back when I first started this, there was no way to make a truncated backup w/the software only. You had to have a spare hard drive at least as large as the original A drive as a backup.

I hit this again recently when I finally got an image for my Tivo HD w/bad A drive. The first thing I got was to run the initial guided setup I don't think think there was a way around it. I got through it all the way, couldn't do squat... got "error 51" and so doh! That's right, I have to clear and delete.  Ugh!


----------



## richsadams

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I don't think you can change the name from the TiVo itself; you must do it from your account on tivo.com. And then it takes days, rather than hours. Possibly involves some reboots.
> 
> Anyway, I think the name is a whimsy; just something to make your life easier. If it's more than that, I'm in trouble. Because, just a few hours ago, I swapped the names of two units around to match where they ended up, ie something like: BedRoom became Den, Den became BedRoom. I'm living dangerously, but I'm hoping this won't break anything.


I've swapped names on ours a number of times...no problems at all. But like you say, sometimes it takes a while.


----------



## MPSAN

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I don't think you can change the name from the TiVo itself; you must do it from your account on tivo.com. And then it takes days, rather than hours. Possibly involves some reboots.
> 
> Anyway, I think the name is a whimsy; just something to make your life easier. If it's more than that, I'm in trouble. Because, just a few hours ago, I swapped the names of two units around to match where they ended up, ie something like: BedRoom became Den, Den became BedRoom. I'm living dangerously, but I'm hoping this won't break anything.


OK, I was asking as I had posted a question regarding the use of a Truncated image from 1 THD being used to restore another. My point was that I have FIOS M-Cards and thought that the good image of the drive I created when upgrading the FamilyRoom to 1 TB could be used in a bind if there were ever an issue with the other 2 THD's that are still "stock". From your post it looks like I can do this if I do a CLEAR once brought up.

I suppose that in a bind, you, Rich, or I could meet at Washington Square and exchange a CD.


----------



## wired4net

Kind of a long story, so please bear with me. For anyone who just wants the BOTTOM LINE: 

Beware of using "wdidle3 /D" 
My experience suggests that "wdidle3 /S300" is the safer option.

A few months ago I upgraded one of my two TIVO HD's to a WD10EADS 1TB HD. This was my 4th upgrade of a TIVO or DTIVO over the years. I had been reading in the forum (thanks to all posters) about the possibility of needing to apply the IntelliPark fix using wdidle3. 

When I got the drive (from Amazon), I somehow thought its build date was outside the window of problems, so I did not use wdidle3 and merely did the upgrade. After failing soft booting I realized I was wrong, but just never got around to doing the mod. No problems at all for several months. 

Last week the TIVO rebooted overnight and failed to start. I figured now was the time to do the mod. The TIVO had just received OS 11.0f, so I first pulled the plug, restarted, and let the new OS install. Then I immediately took out the drive and applied the "wdidle3 /D" fix as instructed. wdidle3 reported that the timer had been "disabled". Re-inserted the drive and soft-rebooted OK. When I next looked at the TIVO, it was frozen. Over the next day of fiddling with it, the TIVO kept rebooting at odd times right in the middle of watching live TV or looking at menus or whatever. Often, the boot wouldn't complete without pulling the plug and trying again. So, what caused this: TIVO broken, drive failing, or 11.0f OS change?

In frustration, I called TIVO service. A nice fellow there told me that the problem was likely the TIVO itself, since they had reports of random reboots with the TIVO HD. He pretty much dismissed the possibility of a problem with 11.0f. Of course, the drive could also be at fault. We discussed return possibilities, but I agreed to test the drive first.

I tested the drive in the TIVO with the short tests using the "reboot, pause, 5, 4" trick. All OK. Then I pulled the drive and tested it over and over with the long tests on my PC using the utility from Western Digital (windlg.exe). All OK. Then I put the original 160GB HD back into the TIVO.

The TIVO using the old drive insisted on an immediate upgrade to 11.0f before it would do much of anything. (Guess their records show it now has or must be updated). That went fine, and then the original (incredibly smaller drive) worked fine over the next day or so.

Meantime, I played with wdidle3 and the WD10EADS. Had trouble running it more than once without rebooting the pc, but that seems to be a documented problem. Googled quite a lot and found that some sites suggested merely setting the IntelliPark time to max (5 min., or 300 sec). I had thought that that was probably what the app did when told to "disable". Apparently not. Reapplied the fix with "wdidle3 /S300" to set park time to 5 min.

Finally, I put back the WD10EADS 1TB drive into the TIVO. That was about 4 days ago, and it has been running great ever since. Soft reboot works, has 11.0f, no random reboots.

So, go figure. I haven't found anyone else describing an experience like this. Maybe it has something to do with an incompatibility of 11.0f with whatever state the drive is in when IntelliPark is "disabled". Maybe it was a fluke. I don't know. But for sure, and for me:

no wdidle3 fix and OS 11.0d = soft reboot fails but no other problems
"wdidle3 /D" (IntelliPark disabled) and OS 11.0f = serious problems with random reboots and soft reboot failures
"wdidle3 /S300" (IntelliPark after 5 min.) and OS 11.0f - soft reboot works and no other problems
WD10EADS drive tests OK.

I welcome anyone who can clear this up.


----------



## LockRob

cjv2 said:


> Uh, Didn't TiVo sell that expander on the TiVo website at one point? And market it as "the only one supported?"


Yes- that is why I went that way. However, I guess because I didn't purchase it from the Tivo website, they felt they could raise the issue. He stated that there were several model numbers of the WD expander, and that he wasn't sure that the one I had was supported.

What can you do at that point? I said it was, he said he wasn't sure, and that was as far as he was going to go.


----------



## cjv2

More 11.0f chatter

For those interested.


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> I suppose that in a bind, you, Rich, or I could meet at Washington Square and exchange a CD.


For a price.


----------



## richsadams

LockRob said:


> What can you do at that point? I said it was, he said he wasn't sure, and that was as far as he was going to go.


Either the TiVo CSR was uninformed (everybody is new to the job at some point) or there was a communications breakdown. There are only two Western Digital My DVR Expanders: a 500GB and a 1TB model. (Both drive boxes feature the TiVo logo BTW.) Those are the only two eSATA drives approved and supported by TiVo. TiVo only sells the 1TB version now but you can still find the 500GB drives for sale elsewhere. No matter where you buy one, as long as it is one of those two drives TiVo will support it and in the event of a failure, Western Digital will replace it in the first year.

WD makes a number of other eSATA drives, none of which are called "My DVR Expander" or have the TiVo logo on the box (or referenced anywhere else).

If you connected the eSATA drive to your TiVo HD via plug and play it would have to be the WD My DVR Expander as no other eSATA drive will work.

Hope that helps...and hopefully you'll get a different CSR if you have to call in again. If you still run into problems make sure you get a support case number and then ask for a supervisor.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> For a price.


Lunch?  Maybe there are some good places in LO?  OH, been there...pulled up in a boat.


----------



## rainbow

Just saw this deck listed for sale for $20.49 w/free standard shipping. I thought I would post it. Might be good for someone; but if they have a dual deck for about the same, I would go for that.

http://www.buy.com/prod/cables-unlimited-usb-2-0-and-esata-to-sata-hard-drive-dock/q/loc/101/210906349.html?adid=17654


----------



## pl1

rainbow said:


> Just saw this deck listed for sale for $20.49 w/free standard shipping. I thought I would post it. Might be good for someone; but if they have a dual deck for about the same, I would go for that.
> 
> http://www.buy.com/prod/cables-unlimited-usb-2-0-and-esata-to-sata-hard-drive-dock/q/loc/101/210906349.html?adid=17654


That is a great price. And although I'm waiting on a dual dock, I actually think having two (for around the same price as a dual) is a better idea in some ways since you could leave one attached to each computer and combine them when needed.


----------



## morac

wired4net said:


> no wdidle3 fix and OS 11.0d = soft reboot fails but no other problems
> "wdidle3 /D" (IntelliPark disabled) and OS 11.0f = serious problems with random reboots and soft reboot failures
> "wdidle3 /S300" (IntelliPark after 5 min.) and OS 11.0f - soft reboot works and no other problems
> WD10EADS drive tests OK.


It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if you didn't apply the wdidle3 fix after 11.0f installed. That's the one thing you didn't test.


----------



## cherry ghost

Finally got around to upgrading my HD to the Hitachi today. Took 45 minutes and not a single problem. Thanks for all the great info!!


----------



## richsadams

cherry ghost said:


> Finally got around to upgrading my HD to the Hitachi today. Took 45 minutes and not a single problem. Thanks for all the great info!!


Nice. Enjoy!


----------



## bciocco

Amazon has the WD15EARS  drive for 84.99 and free shipping today.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/goldbox/ref=pe_36550_14712330_pe_01_mainimage

I believe this is a usable drive for upgrade with some minor modifications.


----------



## richsadams

bciocco said:


> Amazon has the WD15EARS  drive for 84.99 and free shipping today.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/goldbox/ref=pe_36550_14712330_pe_01_mainimage
> 
> I believe this is a usable drive for upgrade with some minor modifications.


Yes as long as the user isn't expecting to be able to use the full 1.5TB of space when upgrading a TiVo Series3 or TiVo HD (see Section IV, #32 in the first post of this sticky thread).

Nice find! :up:


----------



## ayman86

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002D5XY8A/

same hitachi a few weeks back. 70 shipped


----------



## richsadams

ayman86 said:


> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002D5XY8A/
> 
> same hitachi a few weeks back. 70 shipped


Great drive...$20 less than I paid in December.  But they've been flawless so I can't complain. :up:


----------



## mattack

bciocco said:


> Amazon has the WD15EARS  drive for 84.99 and free shipping today.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/goldbox/ref=pe_36550_14712330_pe_01_mainimage
> 
> I believe this is a usable drive for upgrade with some minor modifications.


I got the tweet for that too.. but ever since I actually checked, it was the Hitachi 1 TB HD31000 drive.

I realize I will probably be too late for this, but *what is the warranty period*? The Amazon page only says "Full replacement, worry-free warranty", and looking around Hitachi's site, I can only find the place to enter a serial # to figure out if your drive is still under warranty.

and is this as low as the 1 TB drives are going for lately? If the 1.5 TB were $85, the $15 extra almost seems worth it even though you don't get all of the extra on a Tivo!! (e.g. possibly reformatting it later as an external drive.)


----------



## jbarm

It's my understanding that most of the 1.5TB drives are quite a bit noisier than the Hitachi.

I jumped on buying the 1 TB Hitachi today. Had a bunch of March Madness HD video wipe out some stuff I wanted to keep.

jb


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

mattack said:


> I realize I will probably be too late for this, but *what is the warranty period*? The Amazon page only says "Full replacement, worry-free warranty", and looking around Hitachi's site, I can only find the place to enter a serial # to figure out if your drive is still under warranty.


One of the bullet items on the outside of the retail box says:


3-year warranty
The actual warranty text from the Installation Guide in the box is much more amusing:

_How long does limited warranty coverage last?

This limited warranty lasts for 1 year, 2 years, 3 years, or 5 years, or a fixed period from data of purchase, depending on when and where it was originally purchased. To determine the warranty specifically for your product, visit www.hitachigst.com. A valid proof of purchase may be required to prove eligibility. If you do not have a valid proof of purchase, the limited warranty period will be measured from the date of sale from Hitachi Global Storage Technologies to the authorized distributor._​
In my case the drives have a Feb 2010 mfg date, so I wouldn't lose a whole lot of coverage if I lost my receipt.


----------



## Tivogre

richsadams said:


> Yes as long as the user isn't expecting to be able to use the full 1.5TB of space when upgrading a TiVo Series3 or TiVo HD (see Section IV, #32 in the first post of this sticky thread).
> 
> Nice find! :up:


Rich, please remember that that is now possible, using the hacked image and WinMFS.


----------



## mattack

Tivogre said:


> Rich, please remember that that is now possible, using the hacked image and WinMFS.


Where does one get the image? (...and does anybody know why this can't be added to the CLI tools so we don't have to use Windows? i.e. I have upgraded on a Mac..)


----------



## mattack

Phantom Gremlin said:


> One of the bullet items on the outside of the retail box says:
> 
> 
> 3-year warranty


Thanks for the info.. I DID jump on this one, even though I'm still curious about getting > 1.x TB drives working fully.. I've got Amazon credit to "use up". (I realize it's not going anywhere, but I don't have any better ideas about what to use it for anytime soon.)


----------



## richsadams

Tivogre said:


> Rich, please remember that that is now possible, using the hacked image and WinMFS.


True enough, but not based on the upgrade instructions in the first post of this sticky.

Now look what you've gone and done... 



mattack said:


> Where does one get the image? (...and does anybody know why this can't be added to the CLI tools so we don't have to use Windows? i.e. I have upgraded on a Mac..)


----------



## Tivogre

mattack said:


> Where does one get the image? (...and does anybody know why this can't be added to the CLI tools so we don't have to use Windows? i.e. I have upgraded on a Mac..)


http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7823170#post7823170


----------



## richsadams

Noted that Newegg has the 1TB WD10EARS on sale for $69.99 including free shipping using promo code *EMCYRYZ38*.

Amazon still has the Hitachi Deskstar HD31000 IDK/7K for $69.99 shipped.


----------



## MPSAN

Today, it was discovered that TiVo has installed a dye pack, similar to what they put into the money packs in a bank robbery! If anyone with a Series 4 TiVo attempts to open the case in order to change the HDD, it sprays Orange Dye inside and TiVo knows that you were inside. They can get into it as there is a code that they can enter via the remote to disable it.

I am wondering how long it will take for the code to become available online...perhaps on the next April 1st!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Today, it was discovered that TiVo has installed a dye pack, similar to what they put into the money packs in a bank robbery! If anyone with a Series 4 TiVo attempts to open the case in order to change the HDD, it sprays Orange Dye inside and TiVo knows that you were inside. They can get into it as there is a code that they can enter via the remote to disable it.
> 
> I am wondering how long it will take for the code to become available online...perhaps on the next April 1st!


   AbMagFab must have gotten an early model since they apparently hadn't perfected the dye pack yet....

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7849400#post7849400

By gosh I hope someone comes up with a work-around. Our Premiere XL is due to hit our doorstep tomorrow (hopefully not literally) and I've been eyeing those 2TB deals recently.


----------



## MPSAN

Rich, I wonder if it is always Orange Dye?

Anyway, I think you said that you were getting the 1TB one. I guess it is too soon to know if WINmfs will still work with the series 4. I hope yours comes today. All 3 of mine are fine now and I posted a long message on how I got them all running again, and how I got my shows off the "bad" drive. I guess no one cared so I will not do that again.

Stay dry,

Dave


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Rich, I wonder if it is always Orange Dye?
> 
> Anyway, I think you said that you were getting the 1TB one. I guess it is too soon to know if WINmfs will still work with the series 4. I hope yours comes today. All 3 of mine are fine now and I posted a long message on how I got them all running again, and how I got my shows off the "bad" drive. I guess no one cared so I will not do that again.
> 
> Stay dry,
> 
> Dave


Hey Dave...my understanding is that the new Premiere's have a tiny, tiny (less than a micron) thread connected from the cover of the box to the bottom so that if anyone removes the case, whammo...it's bricked. Guess we'll have to wait and see. 

BTW your info was very valuable. I wouldn't worry about no one posting about it. Folks will follow that will be very grateful for your hard work and tenacity. Sun's out! Woo hoo!


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

richsadams said:


> Our Premiere XL is due to hit our doorstep tomorrow (hopefully not literally) and I've been eyeing those 2TB deals recently.


Seriously? You think you need 2 TB?

I've just recently upgraded 3 (out of 4) HD units to 1 TB each. That's 157 hours each of HD. Hard to envision free space being a problem anytime soon.

But the Premiere also has a very interesting improvement: file transfers are much much faster. So using something like kmttg and a home NAS would let you have "virtually unlimited" storage without hassles. kmttg has a few buglets in it, but overall it works fine on my iMac. It's ridiculously easy to copy files off the TiVos. Unfortunately, with the TiVo HD boxes, it's also ridiculously slow.


----------



## richsadams

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Seriously? You think you need 2 TB?
> 
> I've just recently upgraded 3 (out of 4) HD units to 1 TB each. That's 157 hours each of HD. Hard to envision free space being a problem anytime soon.
> 
> But the Premiere also has a very interesting improvement: file transfers are much much faster. So using something like kmttg and a home NAS would let you have "virtually unlimited" storage without hassles. kmttg has a few buglets in it, but overall it works fine on my iMac. It's ridiculously easy to copy files off the TiVos. Unfortunately, with the TiVo HD boxes, it's also ridiculously slow.


Actually we've been pretty happy with 1TB...it's just the old Tim the Tool Man itch to make things bigger, better, faster. Besides, for some folks, 2TB is child's play. I only ordered one...how about eight! 

Yep, I have iTiVo transferring some recordings from the S3 to my MacBook as we speak. Great for on the road when the Slingbox can't be accessed. The S3 transfers are pretty decent compared to the THD. Is the Premiere even faster?


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

richsadams said:


> The S3 transfers are pretty decent compared to the THD. Is the Premiere even faster?


I don't have any personal experience with the Premiere. I'm running out of rooms to put boxes in, so I don't think I'll get one anytime soon. bkdtv has posted some amazing charts in the Premiere FAQ. Here's one:


----------



## richsadams

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I don't have any personal experience with the Premiere. I'm running out of rooms to put boxes in, so I don't think I'll get one anytime soon. bkdtv has posted some amazing charts in the Premiere FAQ. Here's one:


Sweet! I hadn't taken the time to look through the Premiere FAQ, thanks for that. Looks like transfers and MRV are up there as well (WAY up there for transfers using TS!) Darn, I might have to "justify" a second Premiere to replace the Series3 one of these days.


----------



## MPSAN

Phantom and Rich, the Sun will not be out for long.

I, too, wonder why 1TB is not enough. In fact, 2 of my 3 THD's are still stock.


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Phantom and Rich, the Sun will not be out for long.
> 
> I, too, wonder why 1TB is not enough. In fact, 2 of my 3 THD's are still stock.


In my case (besides the "Tim Taylor" thing) we like to have a back stock of things to choose from depending on our mood. The deeper the selection the better I feel for whatever reason. Plus there are the various "drought" periods where nothing good seems to be on. We often record a whole season's worth of a program that we think we'll like but we don't watch it until something falls off of our favorites list or goes on hiatus or something. Then we have something else to watch instead. There are mini-series that we record for later as well and then there are those "guy" and "chick" things we'll opt to watch when the other is not around.

I also use the second TiVo to record programs so I can watch them when I'm on the road (using Slingbox), unless we have guests, then I transfer them to my computer so I'm not changing channels while they're trying to watch TV. 

Plus, although it's rare, there will be three or four things on at the same time that we want to record, so we press both TiVo's into service and then transfer the recordings later. So the more space the better (for us) I guess. I'd rather do some housecleaning and dump things once in a while than find myself confronted with having nothing that I really want to watch or worse, have to delete something so I can record something else.

Again...compared to some, we're amateurs! 

Ooooo, you're right. Time to mow the lawn!


----------



## MPSAN

Thanks Rich. Well our lawn was mowed this morning. Anyway, I am getting V and Life now but that is a long way from filling up the 1TB THD. We do some MRV when we need >2 tuners. In fact Thursday is a big night.

Anyway, our son gets some of our shows for his PC (Windows Vista) and says a 1 hour show takes >2 hours to transfer. Is there an app that he can get to make this go much smoother? There must be something for Vista systems out there as we are now "the planet of the apps" are we not?


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Is there an app that he can get to make this go much smoother? There must be something for Vista systems out there as we are now "the planet of the apps" are we not?


What's he using to transfer recordings, TiVo Desktop? It should run at at least like-for-like speed (1 hr. recording takes 1 hr. transfer). Not sure why it would take twice as long.

He could try KMTTG. I haven't tried it with Windows but I used it up until I upgraded to Snow Leopard on our Macs and it worked _very_ well. It requires Rosetta w/Mac and I did a clean SL install and decided not to avoid 32 bit programs like Rosetta. I'm aiming to run all 64 bit. So far so good. iTiVo works for me now. But I digress. Anyway, see if KMTTG works any better.


----------



## S3-2501

I don't know if this is helpful to post or not, but I thought I'd post that my TivoHD with a WD10EVDS drive (intellipark set to 3720seconds/62.0 minutes via the /d switch) successfully updated to the latest 11.0g software last night. More evidence that the hassle of "disabling" intellipark does seem to solve any soft-boot or software update issues.


----------



## richsadams

S3-2501 said:


> I don't know if this is helpful to post or not, but I thought I'd post that my TivoHD with a WD10EVDS drive (intellipark set to 3720seconds/62.0 minutes via the /d switch) successfully updated to the latest 11.0g software last night. More evidence that the hassle of "disabling" intellipark does seem to solve any soft-boot or software update issues.


That is good to know. :up: It's also interesting that they pushed v11.0f to a few boxes a few weeks ago but are now are rolling out v11.0g.  Hmmm...


----------



## Tivogre

The unit just took the latest software update from tivo (11.0g) with no issues.

It's been getting guide data and making regular calls to tivo for a couple of months now.

All is well; I am enjoying the 1.5 TB of space. 

I would definitely deem this a stable hack.

If anyone has / does do a full 2TB internal drive, let us know how it works, and how much space is reported.


----------



## richsadams

Tivogre said:


> If anyone has / does do a full 2TB internal drive, let us know how it works, and how much space is reported.


That would be valuable info indeed. What I'd really like to know is if the current WD GP drives can be used for upgrades w/o modifying the Intellipark feature. TiVo corrected the issue on the THD XL's, so I'm wondering if the latest update (11.0g) addresses that and we can go back to recommending the WD drives free and clear. Hopefully someone will give it a go soon and post the results.


----------



## emerz

Tivogre said:


> If anyone has / does do a full 2TB internal drive, let us know how it works, and how much space is reported.


Upgraded my Tivo HD with a Western Digital AV-GP WD20EVDS 2TB using Mr. Broflovski's hacked image after first disabling Intellipark with wdidle3. While it has only been two days since the upgrade, all appears to be work 100%.

Recording time is reported as 318/2776. All in all, a worthwhile upgrade.

Kudos to Mr. Broflovski !!


----------



## Tivogre

Your 61 extra hours greatly taunts me!

Would you be willing to set the wdidle value back to default to confirm whether the soft boot issue is indeed fixed?



emerz said:


> Upgraded my Tivo HD with a Western Digital AV-GP WD20EVDS 2TB using Mr. Broflovski's hacked image after first disabling Intellipark with wdidle3. While it has only been two days since the upgrade, all appears to be work 100%.
> 
> Recording time is reported as 318/2776. All in all, a worthwhile upgrade.
> 
> Kudos to Mr. Broflovski !!


----------



## MPSAN

FYI, my 1 TB just upgraded to 11.0g and all was OK. I lost a ton of channels after it rebooted and had to connect again to get guide data. All is OK now but I am not sure why I lost stations until I did another reconnect.

Rich and I are on the same FIOS system so I wonder how his is doing.
P.S. I assume that the Image Hack co$t$.


----------



## Tivogre

The image hack does NOT cost anything.

It is a gift from the hacking community.

In fact, one of the reasons it was done was to give another upgrade route, besides BUYING a pre-upgraded drive from someone on e-bay.



MPSAN said:


> FYI, my 1 TB just upgraded to 11.0g and all was OK. I lost a ton of channels after it rebooted and had to connect again to get guide data. All is OK now but I am not sure why I lost stations until I did another reconnect.
> 
> Rich and I are on the same FIOS system so I wonder how his is doing.
> P.S. I assume that the Image Hack co$t$.


----------



## MPSAN

Tivogre said:


> The image hack does NOT cost anything.
> 
> It is a gift from the hacking community.
> 
> In fact, one of the reasons it was done was to give another upgrade route, besides BUYING a pre-upgraded drive from someone on e-bay.


Geeze! That is great!


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

Tivogre said:


> The image hack does NOT cost anything.
> 
> It is a gift from the hacking community.
> 
> In fact, one of the reasons it was done was to give another upgrade route, besides BUYING a pre-upgraded drive from someone on e-bay.


I for one am very thankful for the generosity of the "hacking" (used in the original non-pejorative sense) community.

I just used WinMFS to upgrade 3 boxes. Cost was 3 x $90 instead of 3 x $239. Big difference. Much thanks to DVRupgrade and weaKnees for sponsoring Tivo Community. But ouch! We're talking big bucks.

And I also avoided dvr_dude on fleabay. At least the sponsors give back some of their profits to help run this site.


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> FYI, my 1 TB just upgraded to 11.0g and all was OK. I lost a ton of channels after it rebooted and had to connect again to get guide data. All is OK now but I am not sure why I lost stations until I did another reconnect.
> 
> Rich and I are on the same FIOS system so I wonder how his is doing.
> P.S. I assume that the Image Hack co$t$.


That's really odd. v11.0g must have downloaded and installed last night on our Series3. I didn't run through all of the channels, but everything appears to be normal. Might be worth having an exorcist pay your home a visit me thinks.  IIRC Phantom is also on FIOS...wonder how his TiVo's are doing?

Our new Premiere XL just arrived. Now I need to find the time to get it up and running...weeeeee!


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

richsadams said:


> He could try KMTTG. I haven't tried it with Windows but I used it up until I upgraded to Snow Leopard on our Macs and it worked _very_ well. It requires Rosetta w/Mac and I did a clean SL install and decided not to avoid 32 bit programs like Rosetta.


Your concerns are outdated. The Mac installation notes on the hosting site now say:

_Intel Platform tivodecode binary

* The Mac OSX tools package contains mostly "universal" binaries, however tivodecode was compiled on PPC platform. Thus if you are on Intel platform and would like to have an Intel binary of tivodecode you can download it from here. Replace the files in the standard installation with those in this file.

NOTE: For example if while running tivodecode on Snow Leopard OS on Intel platform and it keeps prompting you to install rosetta in order to run tivodecode, installing the above would prevent that from happening and would not necessitate installing rosetta._​
In fact, even the above instructions might be outdated. I recently installed kmttg and on its first startup it asked for permission to download the Mac files as needed. I assume it got the right ones. And if it didn't, it should be easy enough to download yourself. I've also compiled tivodecode myself (for when I was downloading through the TiVo's built in web server) and it's not hard to do.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> That's really odd. v11.0g must have downloaded and installed last night on our Series3. I didn't run through all of the channels, but everything appears to be normal. Might be worth having an exorcist pay your home a visit me thinks.
> 
> Our new Premiere XL just arrived. Now I need to find the time to get it up and running...weeeeee!


NO, you need the time to add a 2TB drive. You know, real geeks would do that before you even power it up for the first time!


----------



## richsadams

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Your concerns are outdated. The Mac installation notes on the hosting site now say:
> 
> _Intel Platform tivodecode binary
> 
> * The Mac OSX tools package contains mostly "universal" binaries, however tivodecode was compiled on PPC platform. Thus if you are on Intel platform and would like to have an Intel binary of tivodecode you can download it from here. Replace the files in the standard installation with those in this file.
> 
> NOTE: For example if while running tivodecode on Snow Leopard OS on Intel platform and it keeps prompting you to install rosetta in order to run tivodecode, installing the above would prevent that from happening and would not necessitate installing rosetta._​Wow...all good info, thanks! :up: I don't do that many transfers so I haven't been keeping up to date. Thanks again!
> 
> In fact, even the above instructions might be outdated. I recently installed kmttg and on its first startup it asked for permission to download the Mac files as needed. I assume it got the right ones. And if it didn't, it should be easy enough to download yourself. I've also compiled tivodecode myself (for when I was downloading through the TiVo's built in web server) and it's not hard to do.


Thanks for that...good info! I don't transfer that many recordings so I haven't been keeping up to date. Good to know because I really like KMTTG. Thanks again! :up:


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> NO, you need the time to add a 2TB drive. You know, real geeks would do that before you even power it up for the first time!


So I've been busted to Amateur Geek eh?


----------



## greg_burns

richsadams said:


> That is good to know. :up: It's also interesting that they pushed v11.0f to a few boxes a few weeks ago but are now are rolling out v11.0g.  Hmmm...


Over in the Software Version 11.0f thread...



TiVoJerry said:


> We had to make a text change after rollout began, so the officially released version will actually be *11.0g*


----------



## richsadams

greg_burns said:


> Over in the Software Version 11.0f thread...


Yep, dlfl just pointed me to the update reasoning as well. I gotta pay more attention!  (Probably got distracted waiting for our new Premiere XL to show up...which it just did, woo hoo!) Thanks for that! :up:


----------



## MPSAN

I will have to look at KMTTG.


----------



## chrishicks

I'm anxiously awaiting for someone to come up with an image to use a 2TB drive in an S3...


----------



## Mr. Broflovski

chrishicks said:


> I'm anxiously awaiting for someone to come up with an image to use a 2TB drive in an S3...


Unfortunately the method I used to create the 'hybrid' image is not portable to the S3 platform. However, one could theoretically create an S3 image for use with larger drives using published methods/tools.

It would not be the most trivial task, and would require a bit of hardware&software hacking to accomplish, but should be completely doable.


----------



## greg_burns

Mr. Broflovski said:


> That said, if anyone wants to donate the hardware or the funds, I'm down


I believe Rich, with his new Premiere, now has an old S3 just lying around.


----------



## richsadams

greg_burns said:


> I believe Rich, with his new Premiere, now has an old S3 just lying around.


D'oh! Actually I sold our TiVo HD and kept the S3...maybe just for old time's sake. The performance of the new TiVo may have an impact on my sentimentality though.


----------



## moxie1617

richsadams said:


> So I've been busted to Amateur Geek eh?


Another violation and you have to turn in your pocket protector and slide rule.


----------



## chipbandit

i replaced my tivo series 3 drive with a 1 tb wd and i ran widdle on it at the time but my tivo has failed to boot on a couple of soft reboots it always works if i unplug and plug it back in so maybe widdle did not work. my question do i have to copy everything off the drive or can i just run widdle and put the drive back into my tivo with out loosing anything as i don't have a drive big enough to copy everything on the tivo drive right now.

so i am hoping that i can just pull the 1tb drive from the tivo run widdle on it again and than reinstall it and have everything working?


----------



## emerz

chipbandit said:


> so i am hoping that i can just pull the 1tb drive from the tivo run widdle on it again and than reinstall it and have everything working?


Wdidle3 is "non-destructive". You can run it on a partially filled drive with no ill effect.

Running "wdidle3 /S300" as recommended on this FAQ worked well for me. Several soft reboots with no issues.

When you run wdidle3 be sure to watch the output from the command. It will report the value of the idle timer in minutes.


----------



## tincan

Special thanks to *Mr. Broflovski* for his >1TB TiVo HD image. Last night I used it to upgrade a used THD with a 2TB Hitachi Deskstar (HD32000IDK7/7K / HDS722020ALA330). The box now reports 318/2777 hours.


----------



## dlfl

Just noticed a lot of us, including me, have been writing "widdle" instead of the correct spelling: "wdidle". (wd + idle ........ makes sense.)

Just a minor point but something that affects results when you search the thread for "widdle", er.. I mean "wdidle".


----------



## MPSAN

tincan said:


> Special thanks to *Mr. Broflovski* for his >1TB TiVo HD image. Last night I used it to upgrade a used THD with a 2TB Hitachi Deskstar (HD32000IDK7/7K / HDS722020ALA330). The box now reports 318/2777 hours.


I am just now merging the 3 parts. This sounds great!


----------



## ayman86

i searched for this but couldnt find any info.

im in winmfs. i select the tivo drive. but when i try to back it up, i get this "not a tivo drive. backup failed".

its a western digital wd1600avvs (from a tivohd).

i using win7 64bit and using a esata docking station 

could it be the docking station? the computer sees the hdd

edit: could it be my bios settings?

edit2: i even tried plugging the hard drive directly to the motherboard. same thing. i mean the hdd works fine in my tivo (it was a unused refurb from tivo themselves. according to the ebay seller. and when i activated the tivo, the csr said it has never been activated. so its right.). what could be the problem?

edit3: i just put the hdd back and right as i turned it on it was doing a software update (11.0g). maybe that is whats causing it? ill try it out after the MSU game


----------



## donnoh

tincan said:


> Special thanks to *Mr. Broflovski* for his >1TB TiVo HD image. Last night I used it to upgrade a used THD with a 2TB Hitachi Deskstar (HD32000IDK7/7K / HDS722020ALA330). The box now reports 318/2777 hours.


This may have already been addressed but how does this affect existing settings as far as cable card pairing is concerned. I'm assuming that it is a completely new image like it was restored off of InstantCake?

I like the fact that I can upgrade to 2TB but I don't want to have to deal with a truck roll to fix the cable card issue.


----------



## Tivogre

You will need to re-pair the card - but it shouldn't take a truck roll.

Just call the cable provider and tell them that you CC has lost it's channels. They should be able to re-authorize it while you are on the phone.

Since nothing has really changed re the pairing, there should be no issue.



donnoh said:


> This may have already been addressed but how does this affect existing settings as far as cable card pairing is concerned. I'm assuming that it is a completely new image like it was restored off of InstantCake?
> 
> I like the fact that I can upgrade to 2TB but I don't want to have to deal with a truck roll to fix the cable card issue.


----------



## Dr_Diablo

chrishicks said:


> I'm anxiously awaiting for someone to come up with an image to use a 2TB drive in an S3...


that would be sweet, what with a 4 GB x ternal drive out there that would be the altimate storage device


----------



## jlib

richsadams said:


> ...What I'd really like to know is if the current WD GP drives can be used for upgrades w/o modifying the Intellipark feature. TiVo corrected the issue on the THD XL's, so I'm wondering if the latest update (11.0g) addresses that and we can go back to recommending the WD drives free and clear. Hopefully someone will give it a go soon and post the results.


Since I am too lazy to open my S3 to do a wdidle update, I will always know the answer to that. Currently it is "No" (and I do not expect it to ever be incorporated).


----------



## jlib

pl1 said:


> I'll give it a shot. I have two extra 1t drives to play with. I can clone an original 250g to a 1t and try mfsadd. I'll let you know once I get the dual dock in a couple weeks (from Hong Kong or somewhere like that).


One of the early, now archaic, methods of upgrading Series 3 TiVos (the so-called Bumwine Method) simply used Linux dd utility to make an exact clone and then mfsadd from mfstools to expand into the remaining space on the new drive. So, as long as that cloning system is OS neutral and does a bit by bit clone equivalent to what dd does, then there is no reason it shouldn't work for a 1TB drive.


----------



## ayman86

well, i thought the update caused the reason winmfs not see the drive as a tivo drive but i just tried it now. still the same,

anyone know the reason?


----------



## distortedimage

ayman86 said:


> well, i thought the update caused the reason winmfs not see the drive as a tivo drive but i just tried it now. still the same,
> 
> anyone know the reason?


I'm having this problem as well. I guess the update got pushed through. Are there any fixes yet?


----------



## bizco

Has anyone found a solution to run wdidle3 without a SATA motherboard? I have a Series 2, looking to install an EVDS manufactured in February. I did all of the MFS and Instantcaking through an external enclosure.

I ran searches for wdidle3 + IDE and wdidle3 + USB and didn't find anything. I also browsed through this thread to no avail (lots of other good info, though)

Thanks.


----------



## bizco

bizco said:


> Has anyone found a solution to run wdidle3 without a SATA motherboard? I have a Series 2, looking to install an EVDS manufactured in February. I did all of the MFS and Instantcaking through an external enclosure.
> 
> I ran searches for wdidle3 + IDE and wdidle3 + USB and didn't find anything. I also browsed through this thread to no avail (lots of other good info, though)
> 
> Thanks.


Okay, so after a few hits and lots of misses over the past couple of weeks, I finally got my Series 2 540140 up and running with a new 1TB WD10EVDS. My main problem came in realizing that I needed to disable Intellipark. This post might be reinventing the wheel, but maybe it'll help someone.

I needed:
Old TiVo
New HD
Weaknees SATA to IDE adapter+cable (necessary? I dunno. I tried one of the ones listed in the adapter thread but it seemed bootleg. I'd say just make sure to get an adapter and not a converter )
InstantCake
MFS Linux
wdidle3.exe

#1: Load InstantCake. Directions are on the website. However, I used an external HD enclosure and followed the excellent instructions outlined here:

(Links not allowed*. It's a post on the MFSLive Forums called "Success using InstantCake, MFSLive, and SATA-only components.")

#2: Follow Drey's post about wdidle3.exe

(Links not allowed. It's in the FAQ.)

You CAN use the Weaknees adapter to disable Intellipark (I didn't have it when loading the InstantCake image, so I had to go the SATA to USB route.)

#3 Put in the new HD! Blue side of the IDE into the mobo, black in the HD.

As simple as that once you figure out what to do.
Thanks to everyone that helped with the FAQ. 

*If I averaged 1 post per year I'd be allowed to post a link. That's embarrassing.


----------



## donnoh

ayman86 said:


> well, i thought the update caused the reason winmfs not see the drive as a tivo drive but i just tried it now. still the same,
> 
> anyone know the reason?


Does WinMFS not work with version 11.0g anymore?


----------



## ayman86

donnoh said:


> Does WinMFS not work with version 11.0g anymore?


well i had the same problem before updating. i believe i was on 11.0d. cant comment for certain though


----------



## Tivogre

donnoh said:


> Does WinMFS not work with version 11.0g anymore?


Are you running Windows 7?

If so, you must run WinMFS as administrator - otherwise it does not see the drive.

To do this, Right Click the icon and select "Run as Administrator".


----------



## ayman86

thats not that the issue when the fact it sees the drive just fine.


----------



## grit

I could use some help please.

About 4 months ago, I bought my second Tivo HD, and a new WD green 1TB drive. I followed the directions here exactly and successfully replaced the stock HDD with the 1TB drive. I had no problems whatsoever for 4 months.

Last Saturday, the tv was blank and only the green light on the Tivo was on. Several reboots resulted in the same. The Tivo boots, says "almost there", hangs with the green light (only) on. Eventually, the tv goes blank and the green light goes off. To troubleshoot, I pulled the 1TB drive and put the original drive back in. Everything worked as it was supposed to.

So, I pulled the 1TB drive out and ran a "in depth" disk check. No reported errors. So, followed the directions on this thread, exactly. I repeated everything just like I did the first time when this worked. However, the Tivo still hangs.

What could possibly be causing that? The drive shows no errors, but Tivo now rejects it. Any ideas/suggestions??? 

PS - I know I already lost all the recordings when i did the disk check, so no need to worry about saving data. i just want my 1TB drive back working OR I want to find a reliable way of finding out that the drive is faulty.


----------



## S3-2501

grit said:


> I pulled the 1TB drive and put the original drive back in. Everything worked as it was supposed to.
> .


 If the original drive works fine, maybe try doing a truncated backup of it and then putting that on the new drive instead of a full copy. Which WD green drive did you get, and if it's a newer one, did you disable intellipark with wdidle?


----------



## grit

Sorry, I should have clarified - I did do a truncated backup. However, i also deleted all of the content from the original hard drive too (not that it should matter for a truncated copy, right?)

This is the first I've heard of intellipark. I dont recall doing anything else to the drive. However, in the past, I had made a change (cant remember what it was called, but I got it from this website) that makes seeks quieter on the drive at the expense of speed I believe. However, i think the WD green drive was quiet enough and I dont think I did that this time.

Would this Intellipark thing cause a problem that isn't fixed with rebooting??


----------



## cjv2

grit said:


> Sorry, I should have clarified - I did do a truncated backup. However, i also deleted all of the content from the original hard drive too (not that it should matter for a truncated copy, right?)
> 
> This is the first I've heard of intellipark. I dont recall doing anything else to the drive. However, in the past, I had made a change (cant remember what it was called, but I got it from this website) that makes seeks quieter on the drive at the expense of speed I believe. However, i think the WD green drive was quiet enough and I dont think I did that this time.
> 
> Would this Intellipark thing cause a problem that isn't fixed with rebooting??


The sound-related setting you reference is called AAM (automatic acoustic management).

The Intellipark thing is different. It is power-saving technology introduced late last year on the WD Green drives. For whatever reason the Tivo software doesn't get along with it and you wind up with issues like failure of soft reboots and getting stuck at the "Powering Up" screen. The workaround is to disable the Intellipark feature using an old WD utility that only runs in DOS.

That said, I don't know if anyone here has heard of an Intellipark drive running fine for 4 months and then going weird because of Intellipark. All the discussions I'm aware of have involved trouble right out of the box.


----------



## bubagump

Another success report upgrading with WD20EVDS 2TB drive with Mr. Broflovski's 2TB image. My Tivo now shows 318hrs of HD space available (see attached photo). Kudos and thanks to Mr. Broflovski. Truly amazing work..
Feels like a nice accomplishment! Thanks to tivogre, emerz and tincup for their technical help since I am a novice (first time upgrading a tivo drive).
Although, it was somewhat of an hassle to get the cable company to pair the cablecard to the new drive. That took way more time that all the steps involving wdidle, hddscan and winmfs combined.


----------



## chrishicks

I'm just hoping an S3 image turns up before the start of the fall TV season as I have 3 of them I want to upgrade to 2TB instead of adding 1TB external drives to each. If not I'll have to eat the extra $150.00+ and order from DVR_Dude on Ebay since I've already been extremely close to filling up a 1TB drive a few times.


----------



## grit

cjv2 said:


> The sound-related setting you reference is called AAM (automatic acoustic management).
> 
> The Intellipark thing is different. It is power-saving technology introduced late last year on the WD Green drives. For whatever reason the Tivo software doesn't get along with it and you wind up with issues like failure of soft reboots and getting stuck at the "Powering Up" screen. The workaround is to disable the Intellipark feature using an old WD utility that only runs in DOS.
> 
> That said, I don't know if anyone here has heard of an Intellipark drive running fine for 4 months and then going weird because of Intellipark. All the discussions I'm aware of have involved trouble right out of the box.


YES! AAM. Thanks for that! Turns out the Intellipark/DWDIdle3 utility doesn't ever recognize the drive in question.

However, I finally got the drive to work! Almost...

After performing ANOTHER truncated backup, and it worked! Woo-hoo! Of course, Tivo had a long download to complete, so I forced a connection to the service and let it do its thing overnight. When i woke up, Tivo said it was pending a restart. So I went into the menu and did a restart.

Now, I'm back where I started. It goes to the "powering up" screen and stays there, forever. Why would it work with the old image, but fail after I do an update??


----------



## MPSAN

grit said:


> YES! AAM. Thanks for that! Turns out the Intellipark/DWDIdle3 utility doesn't ever recognize the drive in question.
> 
> However, I finally got the drive to work! Almost...
> 
> After performing ANOTHER truncated backup, and it worked! Woo-hoo! Of course, Tivo had a long download to complete, so I forced a connection to the service and let it do its thing overnight. When i woke up, Tivo said it was pending a restart. So I went into the menu and did a restart.
> 
> Now, I'm back where I started. It goes to the "powering up" screen and stays there, forever. Why would it work with the old image, but fail after I do an update??


Perhaps because the pending restart is a soft reboot and that is the issue with wdidle3 needing to be run. It may be OK if you do a hard reset (power it off). In fact, if Intellipark is not disabled, the drive should work just fine until a soft reboot is again tried.


----------



## Leon WIlkinson

I was about to upgrade/fix my THD , been talking about it for months. Now I need a 652160 ImageThe original drive will boot up( w/hardreboot every once in a while. and die in around 1 hr:down:

I ordered the Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EARS 1TB 5400 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive from Newegg for $ 70 total. I seen that the 4k cache is not an issue as shown in the FAQ

I thought about getting a the 1.5 version and PM Mr. Broflovski


----------



## ADG

cjv2 said:


> That said, I don't know if anyone here has heard of an Intellipark drive running fine for 4 months and then going weird because of Intellipark. All the discussions I'm aware of have involved trouble right out of the box.


Actually that's the exact problem. It will work fine until a forced reboot (such as after a s/w upgrade) and then it will hang. Hence the need to use wdidle.


----------



## dmorel

OK, 184 pages is an awful lot to go through.
Getting a replacement drive for an HD tomorrow, 1Tb from weaknees (bad drive in one of my HD's)...

Anything I need to know? I'm seeing a lot of concerns about reboots after software upgrades with the replacement drives... Any other interesting gotchas to worry about or I can just swap the drive (deal with cox cable and re-pairing the card) and have a nice day?


----------



## grit

ADG said:


> Actually that's the exact problem. It will work fine until a forced reboot (such as after a s/w upgrade) and then it will hang. Hence the need to use wdidle.


Any idea why WDIdle3.exe wouldn't recognize the drive? It was able to find my raptor hdd, but it can't see the 1TB green drive. i even tried unplugging the raptor so the only hdd was the 1TB, but it simply did not see it.


----------



## ThAbtO

weaKnees Upgrades the TiVo Premiere to 4TB!


----------



## ayman86

so no one knows why i keep getting a "not a tivo drive" in winmfs?


----------



## cjv2

ADG said:


> Actually that's the exact problem. It will work fine until a forced reboot (such as after a s/w upgrade) and then it will hang. Hence the need to use wdidle.


In my case, the drive would not boot at all, ever. I sat at "Welcome! Powering up" forever, on a hard boot. Soft boot was a non-issue, because you have to hard boot at least once successfully to get into the OS to initiate a soft boot, and I couldn't even get that far.

I believe it was a WD10EADS, and I wound up taking it back. I forget the firmware rev, etc., but it's buried somewhere further back in the thread. It was around the time folks were just starting to figure the Intellipark business out. As I had nothing to work with but a USB -> SATA adapter, wdidle was a non-option for me and I posted that bit of info to the thread.


----------



## S3-2501

grit said:


> Any idea why WDIdle3.exe wouldn't recognize the drive? It was able to find my raptor hdd, but it can't see the 1TB green drive. i even tried unplugging the raptor so the only hdd was the 1TB, but it simply did not see it.


 There are many possible reasons. How did you connect the drive to the motherboard, and what are your SATA settings in your BIOS (IDE, AHCI or RAID?) Did you connect it to your motherboard's main SATA connectors, or to connectors controlled by a secondary chip (if your MB has one?) The list of possibilities goes on and on...

If you have everything connected properly and boot from the wdidle3 disc, you can just run wdidle3 without any command switches and it will look at all connected drives and tell you their current status. If you don't see the drive listed there then something's wrong. Another thing to check successful connection is to go into your PC's BIOS and see if the drive shows up there.

Which dive model do you have? (eg. WD10EVDS)


----------



## grit

S3-2501 said:


> There are many possible reasons. How did you connect the drive to the motherboard, and what are your SATA settings in your BIOS (IDE, AHCI or RAID?) Did you connect it to your motherboard's main SATA connectors, or to connectors controlled by a secondary chip (if your MB has one?) The list of possibilities goes on and on...
> 
> If you have everything connected properly and boot from the wdidle3 disc, you can just run wdidle3 without any command switches and it will look at all connected drives and tell you their current status. If you don't see the drive listed there then something's wrong. Another thing to check successful connection is to go into your PC's BIOS and see if the drive shows up there.
> 
> Which dive model do you have? (eg. WD10EVDS)


It was the primary ICH10 controller. I thought after the fact that perhaps I should have turned off AHCI and put it to IDE. The drive does show up in BIOS, just not in WDIdle3. And there was the irony. Using AHCI, it DID find the raptor drive, but not the green drive.

I'm on the way to bed and the drive is inside the Tivo right now, but I'm pretty sure the model is WD10EACS. If it's not, then it is definitely the WD10EADS.


----------



## tincan

tincan said:


> Special thanks to *Mr. Broflovski* for his >1TB TiVo HD image. Last night I used it to upgrade a used THD with a 2TB Hitachi Deskstar (HD32000IDK7/7K / HDS722020ALA330). The box now reports 318/2777 hours.


Another 11.0g data point. My THD took the upgrade last night and rebooted, and aside from the tuning adapter-induced wonkiness, all is well. :up:


----------



## andy_hd

tincan said:


> Another 11.0g data point. My THD took the upgrade last night and rebooted, and aside from the tuning adapter-induced wonkiness, all is well. :up:


Were you able to keep your cablecard settings? Were you able to keep your recordings?


----------



## rxrepli

I'll second that! A 2TB Series3 Image would be a real treat!


----------



## tincan

andy_hd said:


> Were you able to keep your cablecard settings? Were you able to keep your recordings?


Yes, and yes, but I think your question is geared more toward the drive upgrade and not the TiVo software upgrade. To clarify, I bought the THD, upgraded to 2TB, then activated and installed. The 11.0g upgrade hit me last night, and my *Mr. Broflovski* image'd THD survived.


----------



## andy_hd

tincan said:


> Yes, and yes, but I think your question is geared more toward the drive upgrade and not the TiVo software upgrade. To clarify, I bought the THD, upgraded to 2TB, then activated and installed. The 11.0g upgrade hit me last night, and my *Mr. Broflovski* image'd THD survived.


Yes -- my question goes to whether I can upgrade an existing HD using the Broflovski image and keep my recordings and cable card settings. I really don't want to get Comcast involved again.


----------



## T1V0

andy_hd said:


> Yes -- my question goes to whether I can upgrade an existing HD using the Broflovski image and keep my recordings and cable card settings. I really don't want to get Comcast involved again.


no

you can't reimage and retain anything. the image restore will overwrite anything on the disk


----------



## jlib

grit said:


> It was the primary ICH10 controller. I thought after the fact that perhaps I should have turned off AHCI and put it to IDE. The drive does show up in BIOS, just not in WDIdle3. And there was the irony. Using AHCI, it DID find the raptor drive, but not the green drive....


That is odd that it saw your Raptor. Sometimes there are 2 separately controlled pairs of SATA connections on the motherboard. That mystery notwithstanding, AHCI needs to be temporarily turned off for the WDIdle3 DOS boot disk to interact with the target drive.


----------



## bananaman

Nothing here just THANKS to this community for continuing to stay on top of TiVo upgrades!

18 months ago I successfully upgraded one of my Series 3's with a Western Digital WD10EVDS 1TB drive. A few days ago I decided to upgrade my second Series 3 with the same type of drive... didn't work! Stuck at "Welcome! Powering up...". So I hit the community drive expansion FAQ... and there's my answer at #29: The latest build WD10EVDS's have the Intellipark feature... which must be adjusted with wdidle3... and bingo! It's working!

This drive is so quiet you almost need a stethoscope to hear it running.

The TiVo Community rocks!


----------



## jcthorne

Just a quick post for anyone looking to do the 2TB upgrade, Newegg has the Hitachi 2tb on sale today for 134 with free shipping.


----------



## ADG

bananaman said:


> Nothing here just THANKS to this community for continuing to stay on top of TiVo upgrades!
> 
> 18 months ago I successfully upgraded one of my Series 3's with a Western Digital WD10EVDS 1TB drive. A few days ago I decided to upgrade my second Series 3 with the same type of drive... didn't work! Stuck at "Welcome! Powering up...". So I hit the community drive expansion FAQ... and there's my answer at #29: The latest build WD10EVDS's have the Intellipark feature... which must be adjusted with wdidle3... and bingo! It's working!
> 
> This drive is so quiet you almost need a stethoscope to hear it running.
> 
> The TiVo Community rocks!


Couldn't agree more. This thread in general and Rich Adams in particular are invaluable!


----------



## jcthorne

Trying to do the 2TB upgrade.

Got the image assembled and run winmfs. Delete the old format from the drive and then restore the image, allow winmfs to expand to the extra space.

Done. Install hitachi drive in tivo and its stuck at the powering up screen. Will not boot the new drive. Ideas? What to check? The only thing I can think of a bit odd about my updgrade is that the drive is not virgin, it had previoulsy been used as a windows drive but I deleted the format using winmfs before restoring the image. Did I need to do something else to this Hitachi 32000 drive?


----------



## jcthorne

bubagump said:


> Another success report upgrading with WD20EVDS 2TB drive with Mr. Broflovski's 2TB image. My Tivo now shows 318hrs of HD space available (see attached photo). Kudos and thanks to Mr. Broflovski. Truly amazing work..
> Feels like a nice accomplishment! Thanks to tivogre, emerz and tincup for their technical help since I am a novice (first time upgrading a tivo drive).
> Although, it was somewhat of an hassle to get the cable company to pair the cablecard to the new drive. That took way more time that all the steps involving wdidle, hddscan and winmfs combined.


Would you mind going over a few steps in your upgrade. I am trying to do the same and getting stuck at the powering up screeen.


----------



## chrishicks

Couldn't sleep last night so I decided to upgrade one of my stock S3s with the Hitachi HD31000 1TB drive. I did a complete copy including all shows and it took just over 3 hours to complete. Add an extra minute to adjust AAM and another 5 minutes or so to get the Tivo back together and I was up and running again. 

I did it all on Win7 Ultimate 64x and the latest WinMFS if anyone is keeping score.

I am kicking myself for not grabbing a few extra drives now when they were on sale for 70.00 so hopefully they will hit that price again soon. I still have 2 more S3s that need to be upgraded but I need to add service on them first so I have some time to play with there.

EDIT TO ADD: I was on "g" before the upgrade also.


----------



## hummingbird_206

chrishicks said:


> Couldn't sleep last night so I decided to upgrade one of my stock S3s with the Hitachi HD31000 1TB drive. I did a complete copy including all shows and it took just over 3 hours to complete. Add an extra minute to adjust AAM and another 5 minutes or so to get the Tivo back together and I was up and running again.
> 
> I did it all on Win7 Ultimate 64x and the latest WinMFS if anyone is keeping score.
> 
> I am kicking myself for not grabbing a few extra drives now when they were on sale for 70.00 so hopefully they will hit that price again soon. I still have 2 more S3s that need to be upgraded but I need to add service on them first so I have some time to play with there.
> 
> EDIT TO ADD: I was on "g" before the upgrade also.


I just finished updating one of my S3's using the same Hitachi drive with a Win 7 PC. I had an external Expander connected, so lost all of my recordings when I did the divorce. But my drive was croaking, so I had no choice. I'm also kicking myself for not buying a second drive at the $70 price, too, to go ahead and upgrade my second S3.

Many, many thanks to this thread, and especially bkdtv and richsadams. I couldn't have done it without this info as well as the great troubleshooting tips in the Please Help My TiVo Keeps Restarting thread.:up::up::up:


----------



## ThAbtO

Digging Deeper Within The New TiVo Premiere


----------



## bubagump

jcthorne said:


> Trying to do the 2TB upgrade.
> 
> Got the image assembled and run winmfs. Delete the old format from the drive and then restore the image, allow winmfs to expand to the extra space.
> 
> Done. Install hitachi drive in tivo and its stuck at the powering up screen. Will not boot the new drive. Ideas? What to check? The only thing I can think of a bit odd about my updgrade is that the drive is not virgin, it had previoulsy been used as a windows drive but I deleted the format using winmfs before restoring the image. Did I need to do something else to this Hitachi 32000 drive?


I had the same problem. Make sure you are connected to active network (my modem had accidentally turned off when I was tinkering with the tivo). Also, disconnect the tuning adapter and connect the cable directly to Tivo. After these two steps the tivo with 2tb upgrade booted up normally for me.


----------



## ccrider2

ThAbtO said:


> Digging Deeper Within The New TiVo Premiere


I see the cover is off....any secret disassembly method involved? 
Is there a thread that breaks when removing the cover?....as someone wrote. 
I'd like to be able to replace the drive when the time comes, without 'bricking' the thing.

Thanks,


----------



## MPSAN

ccrider2 said:


> I see the cover is off....any secret disassembly method involved?
> Is there a thread that breaks when removing the cover?....as someone wrote.
> I'd like to be able to replace the drive when the time comes, without 'bricking' the thing.
> 
> Thanks,


No thread...Rich and I were just "playing" on April 1st. I actually said there was a dye pack in there.


----------



## moolman

I'm sure this was asked many times before, sorry about that. 

My S3 hard drive died, so I replaced the original hard drive with the 1TB I had in the external. So now that's upgraded, the FAQ seems to imply that I can't use the official WD 1TB drive anymore as an external. I understand that I have the option of installing an unsupported drive and doing the whole mfs steps in the FAQ to get the thing to work. Even though I have my external antec case, I was thinking of buying the official WD since the price premium isn't too much.

Alex


----------



## jcthorne

bubagump said:


> I had the same problem. Make sure you are connected to active network (my modem had accidentally turned off when I was tinkering with the tivo). Also, disconnect the tuning adapter and connect the cable directly to Tivo. After these two steps the tivo with 2tb upgrade booted up normally for me.


Thanks. Already tried that. Tried again to be sure specificly. I am using OTA only, no cable but had the antenna connected as well as the network cable (and network lights were on but no traffic)

The tivo never loads from the drive. The heads are not moving and there is no activity. Something in the config or the drive my tivo does not like.

I could not have the tivo out of service any longer as it provides all media services to our entire house. Put my 1TB WD green drive back in and it booted right back up.

So the upgrade did not work in my case. Have no idea if its the drive, the format or the way I applied the image or if the image itself is a problem. Hopefully the underlying method will become part of some more mainstream tools that will be published with more complete instructions. I'm pretty good with computers but have only messed with tivo on a few occaisions over the years, following instructions for a drive upgrade mostly so not all that familur with the particulars of the tivo partition tables etc. Obviously there is more to this upgrade that those 'in the know' take for granted and that I am unaware. Thanks anyway.


----------



## richsadams

moolman said:


> My S3 hard drive died, so I replaced the original hard drive with the 1TB I had in the external. So now that's upgraded, the FAQ seems to imply that I can't use the official WD 1TB drive anymore as an external. I understand that I have the option of installing an unsupported drive and doing the whole mfs steps in the FAQ to get the thing to work. Even though I have my external antec case, I was thinking of buying the official WD since the price premium isn't too much.


Hi Alex. You read correctly. External drives cannot be added via plug and pray once the internal hard drive has been upgraded. You would have to marry the two drives using winMFS or MFStools. Since you'd need to do that I'd still recommend using your Antec MX-1. Your MX-1 is fan cooled which should extend the life of the drive and a new bare drive will give you a three-year warranty minimum. Although the 1TB My DVR Expanders seem to be doing better, the 500GB track record is pretty poor with an average 12 - 18 month lifespan.

If it were me and I decided on a new bare drive rather than the WD Expander I would probably install the brand new drive internally and move the existing 1TB back to external duty since it already has a few miles on it. It would be easier to recover if the external drive fails completely.

Hope that helps!


----------



## Tivogre

Did WINMFS complete successfully when you restored the hacked image?

What message(s) did it give at completion?


----------



## ccrider2

MPSAN said:


> No thread...Rich and I were just "playing" on April 1st. I actually said there was a dye pack in there.


Ouch!....The hook was set ......deep.


----------



## MPSAN

ccrider2 said:


> Ouch!....The hook was set ......deep.


Sorry! That was the first time in my life that I ever got "into" the April 1st deal on ANY forum...and will be my last. I actually don't like the many April 1st Magazine features as well.


----------



## moolman

richsadams said:


> Hi Alex. You read correctly. External drives cannot be added via plug and pray once the internal hard drive has been upgraded. You would have to marry the two drives using winMFS or MFStools. Since you'd need to do that I'd still recommend using your Antec MX-1. Your MX-1 is fan cooled which should extend the life of the drive and a new bare drive will give you a three-year warranty minimum. Although the 1TB My DVR Expanders seem to be doing better, the 500GB track record is pretty poor with an average 12 - 18 month lifespan.
> 
> If it were me and I decided on a new bare drive rather than the WD Expander I would probably install the brand new drive internally and move the existing 1TB back to external duty since it already has a few miles on it. It would be easier to recover if the external drive fails completely.
> 
> Hope that helps!


Rich,
Thank you for the advice. As for the MX-1, I've had the fan on it unplugged for the last 3 years, it's too noisy for my liking. And the advice about moving the new drive to the internal makes the most sense, didn't think about it. Am I able to use winMFS to copy the already expanded 1TB to the new 1TB, or do I have to go from the original drive. My original drive died so I had to use that virgin supafly image going around and that required to use the linux mfs which was doable but none the less fustrating.

Alex


----------



## dianebrat

moolman said:


> Rich,
> Thank you for the advice. As for the MX-1, I've had the fan on it unplugged for the last 3 years, it's too noisy for my liking.


Alex, the MX1 fan should be all but silent, if it's making noise it's most likely got crud or gunk on the shaft, I hear the hard drive more then the fans.

A visit to this thread might be in order:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7836726#post7836726

Diane


----------



## dontull63

I just bought a WD Expander. The install went easily enough and everything seems to work, but the change between screens is incredibly slow.

Populating the Now Playing Screen can take 30 seconds and paging down to the next screen can take another 30 seconds, etc.

The System Screens seem to be correct and recognize the external drive and the percentage of memory for each show recorded dropped appropriately.

Also, while I can force a connection to Tivo, the download hangs at the last stage (preparing to load).


----------



## richsadams

moolman said:


> Rich,
> Thank you for the advice. As for the MX-1, I've had the fan on it unplugged for the last 3 years, it's too noisy for my liking. And the advice about moving the new drive to the internal makes the most sense, didn't think about it. Am I able to use winMFS to copy the already expanded 1TB to the new 1TB, or do I have to go from the original drive. My original drive died so I had to use that virgin supafly image going around and that required to use the linux mfs which was doable but none the less fustrating.
> 
> Alex


You can use winMFS with your existing internal 1TB and a new 1TB to make a truncated backup (which just includes the basic settings, cable card info, etc.) or you can make a full copy including recordings. See Section V, 22a and 22b in the FAQ. Just follow the same steps. If you wanted you could also use dd to make an exact copy.

I would image the new drive first and install it to be sure everything is working. When you marry them it will of course reformat your existing 1TB internal and all of the data will be wiped. After you're sure everything is working then marry the two drives. It's a bit of a pain, but will ensure that you have a working internal drive no matter what.

BTW, Diane's advice about the noisy fan is right on. I have an MX-1 (bought it when the S3 eSATA hack was discovered a couple of years ago) which had a noisy fan OOTB. I tinkered with it (finally flicked the hub with my finger) and it got much quieter, not silent but close. It's doing backup work on a computer now and still humming along just fine.


----------



## richsadams

dontull63 said:


> I just bought a WD Expander. The install went easily enough and everything seems to work, but the change between screens is incredibly slow.
> 
> Populating the Now Playing Screen can take 30 seconds and paging down to the next screen can take another 30 seconds, etc.
> 
> The System Screens seem to be correct and recognize the external drive and the percentage of memory for each show recorded dropped appropriately.
> 
> Also, while I can force a connection to Tivo, the download hangs at the last stage (preparing to load).


Welcome to the forum (neighbor!). Have a look at this post and see if trying some of the suggestions helps:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7553444#post7553444

If not, post back and we'll keep working on it.


----------



## moolman

Thanks for the advice everyone, I knew my MX-1 fan was defective but I was just lazy I guess and never bothered to check that the warranty was 3 years, not 1 year. I just sent them an email asking for a new fan, so lets see what happens. The reason I was asking if I can use the already updated 1TB to make a copy was because back in the day when I was upgrading the my S2, I remember something about not being able to expand again if you already expanded a drive. But I guess this doesn't fall into that since I'm not expanding the drive and things may have changed since then.

Thanks again everyone for the advice.

Alex


----------



## cr33p

Im looking to pick up some of these WD10EARS drives to upgrade my existing 2 TivoHD models and one S3 model, then off to buy some premieres  , anywho, I see these are a nice price

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136490

Will this new 4k sector cause problems?

thanks


----------



## ccrider2

MPSAN said:


> Sorry! That was the first time in my life that I ever got "into" the April 1st deal on ANY forum...and will be my last. I actually don't like the many April 1st Magazine features as well.


No problem...I got a good laugh out of it....relieved it's not true. 
Actually I've read 'people that laugh every day live longer'...so perhaps, I owe you a thanks! :up:


----------



## MPSAN

ccrider2 said:


> No problem...I got a good laugh out of it....relieved it's not true.
> Actually I've read 'people that laugh every day live longer'...so perhaps, I owe you a thanks! :up:


OK, but only you can determine if you need to thank me for extending your life!


----------



## wackymann

moolman said:


> Thanks for the advice everyone, I knew my MX-1 fan was defective but I was just lazy I guess and never bothered to check that the warranty was 3 years, not 1 year. I just sent them an email asking for a new fan, so lets see what happens. The reason I was asking if I can use the already updated 1TB to make a copy was because back in the day when I was upgrading the my S2, I remember something about not being able to expand again if you already expanded a drive. But I guess this doesn't fall into that since I'm not expanding the drive and things may have changed since then.
> 
> Thanks again everyone for the advice.
> 
> Alex


The fan in my MX-1 died, so I took it apart hoping to replace it. It wasn't at all obvious how to remove it. It seemed to be an integral part of the chassis. You may want to look for an online guide on how to replace the fan before cracking the thing open. I ended up damaging mine and had to throw it out.


----------



## richsadams

wackymann said:


> The fan in my MX-1 died, so I took it apart hoping to replace it. It wasn't at all obvious how to remove it. It seemed to be an integral part of the chassis. You may want to look for an online guide on how to replace the fan before cracking the thing open. I ended up damaging mine and had to throw it out.


Diane's post above includes a link describing how to remove the fan:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7836726#post7836726


----------



## ThAbtO

richsadams said:


> Diane's post above includes a link describing how to remove the fan:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...26#post7836726


Somehow that URL didn't go through.


----------



## richsadams

cr33p said:


> Im looking to pick up some of these WD10EARS drives to upgrade my existing 2 TivoHD models and one S3 model, then off to buy some premieres  , anywho, I see these are a nice price
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136490
> 
> Will this new 4k sector cause problems?
> 
> thanks


Short answer is no, the 4k sector issue isn't an issue for TiVo. Read up on the drive in the FAQ, particularly the part about having to disable or extend the timeout of the drive's Intellipark feature (Section IV, #29).

Happy upgrading!


----------



## richsadams

ThAbtO said:


> Somehow that URL didn't go through.


D'oh! Fixed. 

S/B http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7836726#post7836726


----------



## Leon WIlkinson

cr33p said:


> Im looking to pick up some of these WD10EARS drives to upgrade my existing 2 TivoHD models and one S3 model, then off to buy some premieres  , anywho, I see these are a nice price
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136490
> 
> Will this new 4k sector cause problems?
> 
> thanks


Good Luck, I did, well kind of...

I tried to do a a Mfscopy off a original TiVoHD drive which showed failing 7 on kickstart 54 HDscan Then on the HDscan3.2 it showed 3 warning on it

I couldn't get wdidle3 to work at all I used nero express and made a bootable data CD. connected the HD to the SATA on the MB, The desktop I used was a gateway 832GM with a SE91510J bios, in the bios I had an option which looked like this.



Code:


SATA                        Enabled
ATA/IDE    options of Native or legacy

I tried both Native & legacy with no success, I had no AHCI or RAID option.


----------



## cr33p

richsadams said:


> Short answer is no, the 4k sector issue isn't an issue for TiVo. Read up on the drive in the FAQ, particularly the part about having to disable or extend the timeout of the drive's Intellipark feature (Section IV, #29).
> 
> Happy upgrading!


Disabling Intellipark isnt an issue for me, I have been succesfull in disabling it, I was just worried about the new 4k sector

thanks


----------



## serenity

cr33p said:


> Im looking to pick up some of these WD10EARS drives to upgrade my existing 2 TivoHD models and one S3 model, then off to buy some premieres  , anywho, I see these are a nice price
> 
> Will this new 4k sector cause problems?
> 
> thanks


On the first page in the FAQ it says:



> Are there any drives to avoid?
> 
> Members should avoid the Western Digital WDxxEARS, as they have a unique 4KB physical sector and the TiVo was designed for use on drives with a traditional 512 Byte physical sector.
> 
> Western Digital recently made a change to its other "Green" drives, so they are no longer fully compatible out-of-the-box. They exhibit a "soft reboot" problem, where the TiVo is stuck on "Welcome...Powering Up" screen after every software reboot, including restarts initiated through the TiVo menus and restarts that follows software updates. Refer to FAQ #13 for more information.
> 
> Stick to the drives listed in the table above and you will be fine.


Based on this advice I chose to grab a Hitachi rather then a WD EARS
Though WD do provide an alignment tool and jumper setting to change the block size, I thought it would be best not to be the guinea pig in this case


----------



## bkdtv

I should probably edit that FAQ. Several members are using the WD EARS successfully.

On PC hardware forums, many have reported a performance hit under Linux and third-party, Linux-based devices with the EARS, but it may not be enough to create a noticeable difference on the TiVo HD.


----------



## richsadams

cr33p said:


> Disabling Intellipark isnt an issue for me, I have been succesfull in disabling it, I was just worried about the new 4k sector


Gotcha. :up:


----------



## ccrider2

MPSAN said:


> OK, but only you can determine if you need to thank me for extending your life!


Who knows how long I'm gonna live?....only God.....I'll just thank you for the laugh.
I'll leave it up to the Man to thank you for the extension....if it comes true.


----------



## richsadams

FWIW OnSale.com is offering the WD20EADS for $119 AR. Pretty amazing price for all of that real estate!

http://www.onsale.com/p/Western-Dig...2324~pdp.fcjddca?store=onsale&source=BWBE8829

BTW, pervious 1TB EADS models did NOT work for upgrading TiVo Series3's.


----------



## richsadams

serenity said:


> Based on this advice I chose to grab a Hitachi rather then a WD EARS
> Though WD do provide an alignment tool and jumper setting to change the block size, I thought it would be best not to be the guinea pig in this case


A number of folks are successfully using the EARS series in their TiVo's. There was concern that the 4k sector format might be a problem very early on. However although the 4k sector can be problematic for Windows XP boxes it hasn't turned out to be an issue for TiVo.

The Hitachi is a good choice though. :up:


----------



## richsadams

MacMall.com is offering the Fantom Green 1TB eSATA drive that's being successfully used by a number of TCF members with their Series3's for $59.99 after two rebates. (The drive won't work via P&P on TiVo HD, HDXL, Premiere or Premiere XL's). Offer ends 04/30/10.

http://www.macmall.com/p/4927517?dpno=7532251&source=zwb12166


----------



## jcthorne

Tivogre said:


> Did WINMFS complete successfully when you restored the hacked image?
> 
> What message(s) did it give at completion?


At the completion of restore the image, it asked if I wanted to expand partition to use unused space on the drive. I said yes. It did so and reported done sucessfully. I did not write down the specific messages but it indicated no errors. I even did it twice, a second time after removing all partitions and letting winmfs start from a fresh drive. Same result both times.


----------



## cr33p

Newegg has the WD 1.5tb EARS 89.99 shipped. NO REBATES

Use promo EMCYRZP83

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-EMC-041310-Index-_-HardDrives-_-22136513-L0I

I was going to scoop up some 1tb for 79.99 caviar blues EALS drives but man 10 more bux will get me a lil more real estate, though I wont be able to use all the size from the 1.5TB.


----------



## richsadams

cr33p said:


> Newegg has the WD 1.5tb EARS 89.99 shipped. NO REBATES
> 
> Use promo EMCYRZP83
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-EMC-041310-Index-_-HardDrives-_-22136513-L0I
> 
> I was going to scoop up some 1tb for 79.99 caviar blues EALS drives but man 10 more bux will get me a lil more real estate, though I wont be able to use all the size from the 1.5TB.


Nice find. :up: It's outside of the "legitimate" upgrade process, but if you're up for it you can utilize all of the space from a 1.5TB (or 2TB) drive) using a hacked image. More here:

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7823170#post7823170

I haven't tried it yet, but a few others here have done it successfully. I suppose if I were going down that road I'd go w/2TB though as the difference in recording space between 1.26TB and 1.5TB isn't that much. For another $30 for 2TB's it might be worth it. Just a thought.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## cr33p

So is "someone" helping out in obtaining this image? 

I know how its being done, just not sure where to aquire it from? I rarely fill even my 750gb thats in my tivoHD now, ran out during olympics, so the 1tb will be great let alone the 1.something I will get, but sure if the tools are there to maximize its capacity im game


----------



## richsadams

cr33p said:


> So is "someone" helping out in obtaining this image?
> 
> I know how its being done, just not sure where to aquire it from? I rarely fill even my 750gb thats in my tivoHD now, ran out during olympics, so the 1tb will be great let alone the 1.something I will get, but sure if the tools are there to maximize its capacity im game


Send a PM to the OP and he'll send you info, instructions and the link to the image. Great guy BTW. :up:


----------



## cr33p

richsadams said:


> Send a PM to the OP and he'll send you info, instructions and the link to the image. Great guy BTW. :up:


Nice 

Thanks for the heads up. Off to buy some drives . YAY more money for the cause, I really wanna pull the trigger on the new Premiere but its not going to happen till new tools are out allowing me to upgrade, I will fill that puny drive in a minute.


----------



## Leon WIlkinson

Leon WIlkinson said:


> Good Luck, I did, well kind of...
> 
> I tried to do a a Mfscopy off a original TiVoHD drive which showed failing 7 on kickstart 54 HDscan Then on the HDscan3.2 it showed 3 warning on it
> 
> I couldn't get wdidle3 to work at all I used nero express and made a bootable data CD. connected the HD to the SATA on the MB, The desktop I used was a gateway 832GM with a SE91510J bios, in the bios I had an option which looked like this.
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> SATA                        Enabled
> ATA/IDE    options of Native or legacy
> 
> I tried both Native & legacy with no success, I had no AHCI or RAID option.


I found out what the problem was, I only had wdidle3.exe file without the autorun and the linxiso, plus I used Imageburn instead of nero

I found them in another folder


----------



## cr33p

Leon WIlkinson said:


> I found out what the problem was, I only had wdidle3.exe file without the autorun and the linxiso, plus I used Imageburn instead of nero
> 
> I found them in another folder


I spent probably 3 hours my first try, between the bad burn, it not recognizing and SATA cd rom, and just about any ide Cd Rom as well. I learned it must be on a cd and only my OLD cd rom drives will be detected by the program. Even then I have mixed results disabling some drives. I was ready to pull out my hair

Pheeew vent over


----------



## cr33p

Also Newegg 1tb Caviar Blue 79.99 Shipped

Use promo code EMCYRZP46

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...EMC-041310-Index-_-HardDrives-_-22136534-LP1B


----------



## richsadams

cr33p said:


> Also Newegg 1tb Caviar Blue 79.99 Shipped
> 
> Use promo code EMCYRZP46
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...EMC-041310-Index-_-HardDrives-_-22136534-LP1B


AFAIK no one has tried using a WD EALS model to upgrade their TiVo. I don't see any reason it wouldn't work, but it would be interesting to hear the experience from anyone that wants to give it a shot.


----------



## cr33p

richsadams said:


> AFAIK no one has tried using a WD EALS model to upgrade their TiVo. I don't see any reason it wouldn't work, but it would be interesting to hear the experience from anyone that wants to give it a shot.


Im pretty sure its just about the same drive as the EARS but with a smaller cache? Should work, was going to get one for my moms TivoHD but heck for 10 more bux, go big or go home right?


----------



## lrhorer

richsadams said:


> FWIW OnSale.com is offering the WD20EADS for $119 AR. Pretty amazing price for all of that real estate!


That's just insane. Two Million Million bytes for under $120. 

That's less money per Gigabyte than I used to pay per Kilobyte for hard drive storage. The only better deal I ever had than that was 3 1/2" floppy disks. AOL used to send them to me free of charge.


----------



## donnoh

lrhorer said:


> That's just insane. Two Million Million bytes for under $120.
> 
> That's less money per Gigabyte than I used to pay per Kilobyte for hard drive storage. The only better deal I ever had than that was 3 1/2" floppy disks. AOL used to send them to me free of charge.


I think my Apple II costs me a few bucks per 360k 5-1/4" floppy!


----------



## jbarm

Just upgraded my S3 to the Hitachi 1TB drive. Thanks for the heads up on this drive at Amazon. Things went smoothly and it took about 2 1/2 hours to set up the drive and transfer my recordings using a dual SATA dock connected via USB.

One problem: My TIVO menu view and my List views now have a clear live TV background instead of the normal solid background. In other words, I have the menu overlaid on a live video view.

I can't figure out how to change this (hard to see the menu) and I haven't heard about this before (read the FAQ, did a search etc). Did I miss this 'Feature' discussion somewhere?

Any help?

jb

Follow up: To help anyone that has this problem in the future. I rebooted the S3 (hard/soft) numerous times to try and fix this issue. Things actually got worse and the unit would go into a reboot cycle/freeze after a few remote entries.

I finally pulled the drive, used Winmfs to delete clear the drive, and did a full upgrade process again. (wonder if the Hitachi was already formatted to NFTS and this caused the problem?)

Now it works just fine with 157 hours of HD recording space.


----------



## richsadams

jbarm said:


> One problem: My TIVO menu view and my List views now have a clear live TV background instead of the normal solid background. In other words, I have the menu overlaid on a live video view.
> 
> I can't figure out how to change this (hard to see the menu) and I haven't heard about this before (read the FAQ, did a search etc). Did I miss this 'Feature' discussion somewhere?


Congrats on the upgrade! :up: With regard to the "clear" TiVo menus, I've seen that happen once in a while on our Series3. It usually occurs after I've given a couple of rapid remote commands...which seems to confuse things now and then. That said, it's not normal to have it happen all of the time. I have no idea what you would need to do to fix it other than trying a hard reboot (pull the power plug, wait 10 seconds or so and plug it back in) if you haven't already. Perhaps someone else will chime in, but if not the only other thing I can imagine doing would be to do the upgrade over again. Not a fun prospect I know. Wish I could be more help. Let us know how it goes!


----------



## bkdtv

jbarm said:


> I can't figure out how to change this (hard to see the menu) and I haven't heard about this before (read the FAQ, did a search etc). Did I miss this 'Feature' discussion somewhere?


That's a rare glitch.

Reboot the TiVo and you should have the solid backgrounds again.


----------



## cr33p

Man the deals are just coming these past few days.

Hitachi Desktar 1TB 69.99 shipped

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-EMC-041510-Index-_-HardDrives-_-22145287-L0B

Use promo EMCYRZS28

Happy Upgrading


----------



## richsadams

cr33p said:


> Man the deals are just coming these past few days.
> 
> Hitachi Desktar 1TB 69.99 shipped
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-EMC-041510-Index-_-HardDrives-_-22145287-L0B
> 
> Use promo EMCYRZS28
> 
> Happy Upgrading


Ha, I was just about to post that! Great minds think alike. That equals the lowest price I've seen to date; a great buy. It's the retail kit that contains the Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000.C hard drive that a number of folks here are successfully using. The two of them that I have in an NAS run cool, quiet and have been flawless for months. :up:


----------



## DemonSlayer

I'm trying to restore a back up image from a 2TB drive to a 1T drive. WinMFS keeps crashing.


----------



## MPSAN

lrhorer said:


> That's just insane. Two Million Million bytes for under $120.
> 
> That's less money per Gigabyte than I used to pay per Kilobyte for hard drive storage. The only better deal I ever had than that was 3 1/2" floppy disks. AOL used to send them to me free of charge.


My first HDD was a HUGE 20MB Seagate for $495! I still have it for my original IBM PC!


----------



## MPSAN

donnoh said:


> I think my Apple II costs me a few bucks per 360k 5-1/4" floppy!


I still have my Apple ][+ with 8" drives and a Microsoft CP/M card. Geeze, I wonder what ever happened to Microsoft?


----------



## donnoh

MPSAN said:


> I still have my Apple ][+ with 8" drives and a Microsoft CP/M card. Geeze, I wonder what ever happened to Microsoft?


I didn't know that Apples ever had 8" drives.
I do remember the 8" floppies though, there were the "hard" sector types with holes all along the inside ring and the new "soft" sector types with just one hole.
It's been nice growing up with computers, the new generation just doesn't know how easy they have it.


----------



## richsadams

donnoh said:


> ... the new generation just doesn't know how easy they have it.


Yeah...we used to have to trudge miles through three feet of snow to get to school, uphill...both ways!


----------



## cjv2

richsadams said:


> Yeah...we used to have to trudge miles through three feet of snow to get to school, uphill...both ways!


I remember when we had to hand crank computers, and they had wooden drive platters that sometimes caught fire, and, and...


----------



## richsadams

cjv2 said:


> I remember when we had to hand crank computers, and they had wooden drive platters that sometimes caught fire, and, and...


ROFLMAO!


----------



## reubanks

donnoh said:


> I didn't know that Apples ever had 8" drives.
> I do remember the 8" floppies though, there were the "hard" sector types with holes all along the inside ring and the new "soft" sector types with just one hole.
> It's been nice growing up with computers, the new generation just doesn't know how easy they have it.


What, you mean like these?

View attachment 8inch1t.bmp


Yes, these are new-in-the-box still in the shrinkwrap 8" DS-DD disks. Yes, there are two boxes there.

I bought these about 2 weeks ago. My neighbor (that I didn't know was also a geek) was moving and had them out at a garage sale. He also had a dual floppy Mac SE along with several 286 clones and a real IBM PC-XT with a 20MB Seagate MFM Hard Drive and single 360k 5.25" floppy,


----------



## HazelW

I remember when I bought my first floppy drive for my Atari 400, upgrading from cassette tape. The guy asked me if I wanted a box of five 88 Kb floppy disks. I told him I only needed one with all that storage--I thought he was trying to rip me off by trying to sell me 5!


----------



## reubanks

MPSAN said:


> My first HDD was a HUGE 20MB Seagate for $495! I still have it for my original IBM PC!


Yeah, mine was a 10MB Micropolis full height. I used a Western Digital 1007 RLL controller to boost it to 15MB. WOO HOO!

Just in case y'all don't remember, the original IBM PC (5 slot) would NOT support a hard drive unless you had a special controller card and even then you needed to boot from a floppy to load the drivers. This was corrected in the XT (8 slot) and later PCs after an upgraded BIOS was developed. The original BIOS was not extensible.

Randy
(too geek to speak)


----------



## MPSAN

donnoh said:


> I didn't know that Apples ever had 8" drives.
> I do remember the 8" floppies though, there were the "hard" sector types with holes all along the inside ring and the new "soft" sector types with just one hole.
> It's been nice growing up with computers, the new generation just doesn't know how easy they have it.


Yes, I had (have) a Vista Controller and I had 2 Shugart 8" soft sector floppy drives attached.


----------



## donnoh

richsadams said:


> Yeah...we used to have to trudge miles through three feet of snow to get to school, uphill...both ways!


Did you live in Germany in the 60's too?


----------



## kdzenith

A huge thank you to bkdtv and the Tivo Community! My original S3 HDD crashed and burned without a backup! With all the help here and a new Hitachi HDD from Newegg I have successfully brought my S3 lifetime back to life! Could not have accomplished it without all your help! Fabulous!


----------



## donnoh

kdzenith said:


> A huge thank you to bkdtv and the Tivo Community! My original S3 HDD crashed and burned without a backup! With all the help here and a new Hitachi HDD from Newegg I have successfully brought my S3 lifetime back to life! Could not have accomplished it without all your help! Fabulous!


Isn't this a great site! I've scheduled this weekend to do a 2 TB upgrade to my Tivo HD thanks to these fine people.
It is such a blessing to find people that devote their lives to making the Tivo experience better for the rest of us.
I can't wait to try Mr B's image.


----------



## MPSAN

kdzenith said:


> A huge thank you to bkdtv and the Tivo Community! My original S3 HDD crashed and burned without a backup! With all the help here and a new Hitachi HDD from Newegg I have successfully brought my S3 lifetime back to life! Could not have accomplished it without all your help! Fabulous!


What is with so many people here from the Portland area? I guess we just can't leave well enough alone!

Anyway, I have just sold my 2nd of 3 ReplayTV's. I have had 3 THD's for 8 months now and your "S3 HDD crashed" post prompted me to ask a question I have been wondering about for Months...

My ReplayTV units were installed, plugged in, and left alone for 5+ years...and still work. So what is TiVo doing, besides having 2 tuners that causes them to eat HDD's?


----------



## MPSAN

donnoh said:


> Isn't this a great site! I've scheduled this weekend to do a 2 TB upgrade to my Tivo HD thanks to these fine people.
> It is such a blessing to find people that devote their lives to making the Tivo experience better for the rest of us.
> I can't wait to try Mr B's image.


Let us know how it goes. Frys had a 2TB drive for $125 today! I assume that the Image will not allow you to save shows...I guess it is treated as a truncated backup. I believe it will need to be cleared after it comes up. I have the Image and put it on a DVD, but wonder how you do. Will you use an Apple ][+ to do this?

Actually, I wonder about this as 2TB drives are getting inexpensive now. Still, the 2nd one I want to update (maybe) is in our bedroom so it just has to be no louder than the stock 160GB drive in it now.


----------



## lrhorer

richsadams said:


> Yeah...we used to have to trudge miles through three feet of snow to get to school, uphill...both ways!


Barefoot, with a 90 lb backpack!


----------



## lrhorer

MPSAN said:


> My ReplayTV units were installed, plugged in, and left alone for 5+ years...and still work. So what is TiVo doing, besides having 2 tuners that causes them to eat HDD's?


Well, I'm not so sure they are, really. People are going to tend to post when they have a drive problem. The majority of people who don't have any problems are going to remain silent. That said, bit densities are getting higher and higher, meaning the magnetic domains are smaller and smaller. This is going to make errors more common. Most are recoverable, but inevitably some will not be, and the rate of unrecoverable errors is going to tend to rise with an overall error rate increase. Secondly, two tuners does place a much higher load on the drive than one tuner. Every time the cache is flushed for one of the streams, it's going to force a seek to what will probably be a very different part of the disk. Thus, rather than more or less smoothly skating across the platters (incremental seeks), the heads are going to chatter continuously like a busybody's teeth in a gossiping contest. This puts a much heavier load on the head servo and the electronics that control it. Finally, the seek rate for HD content is going to be easily six times higher than for SD content.


----------



## cjv2

MPSAN said:


> My ReplayTV units were installed, plugged in, and left alone for 5+ years...and still work. So what is TiVo doing, besides having 2 tuners that causes them to eat HDD's?


If you play the Tivo backwards it says "cooookie, nom nom nom."


----------



## donnoh

Well my new 2TB WD20EVDS showed up early yesterday evening and I couldn't wait to install it. Here's how it went.

Ran wdidle3 to change the intellipark time to 300 seconds - no problems

Installed the image - at least I thought I did, more about that later.

Installed the new drive in the Tivo - twice, (I put it in backwards the first time), put it back in entertainment center, power it up and nada, zip, I get the gray screen right after it powers up.

I pull it back out, crack open the case and discover that it would work better if I would have actually plugged in the drive.

Re-install the Tivo, power it up and it comes up like a new Tivo, I run guided setup and wait for it to download the program data.

Go to the system info screen to behold the 318 hours of HD storage and what do I see? Up to 20 whopping hours of storage space...*(^R&#37;$#!

Take the Tivo back out, re-install the image and this time I check the estimated number of hours and it looks to be correct this time. I'm really not sure what I did wrong the first time.

Re-install the drive back in the Tivo, put it back in the entertainment center and power it up. Once again the gray screen, my dumb arse forgot to plug in the drive a second time! What an idiot.

Correct my mistake, re-install the Tivo, power it up, run guided setup and FINALLY see the 318 hours of HD programming space!!!

The one thing that I didn't expect to see work though was my Cable Card. I assume that Charter doesn't pair the cards to the device in my area. This was an unexpected surprise to not have to deal with one of their phone reps.

Overall it went well if you throw out my stupidity. I didn't have to do a C&D everything, it just came up like a new Tivo. The only real pain was re-entering 60 season passes over again and putting in my 20 digit WPA security code.

Thank you Mr. Broflovski!


----------



## justen_m

donnoh said:


> Overall it went well if you throw out my stupidity. I didn't have to do a C&D everything, it just came up like a new Tivo. The only real pain was re-entering 60 season passes over again and putting in my 20 digit WPA security code.


Thanks for the laugh this morning. But, I am with you on the season pass thing. The only reason I have two Tivos is because I am way too lazy to move over 100 season passes from my S2DT to my TivoHD. Heck, I'd buy a Premiere if it let me manage season passes on a single machine.


----------



## jjberger2134

I am in the beginning stages of looking for a hard drive to put in my TiVoHD. I am pretty set on buying the Hitachi Deskstar drive that is recommended in these pages. However, when I look around I see two different Hitachi models. Does anyone know the difference between:

Hitachi Deskstar HD31000 IDK/7K and Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000.C

Which is the preferred drive? I have seen both models recommended. I think the IDK/7K is the one currently on sale (only at Newegg).

I am leaning toward the Hitachi, since it _seems_ like it would be easier to run the AAM software than to disable the Intellipark settings on the WD drives. I would rather have a bit extra noise from the hard drive (that could possibly be quieted), than not have the drive work properly due to Intellipark. I am not experienced at all with the features of widdle or AAM, but I can follow basic technical directions. So I am guessing it is easier to buy a Hitachi and quiet the drive, rather than buy a WD and run widdle. Also, it seems more people come here and say how they messed up running widdle on a WD than messed up using AAM on the Hitachi. Am I correct in my thinking?


----------



## donnoh

jjberger2134 said:


> I am in the beginning stages of looking for a hard drive to put in my TiVoHD. I am pretty set on buying the Hitachi Deskstar drive that is recommended in these pages. However, when I look around I see two different Hitachi models. Does anyone know the difference between:
> 
> Hitachi Deskstar HD31000 IDK/7K and Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000.C
> 
> Which is the preferred drive? I have seen both models recommended. I think the IDK/7K is the one currently on sale (only at Newegg).
> 
> I am leaning toward the Hitachi, since it _seems_ like it would be easier to run the AAM software than to disable the Intellipark settings on the WD drives. I would rather have a bit extra noise from the hard drive (that could possibly be quieted), than not have the drive work properly due to Intellipark. I am not experienced at all with the features of widdle or AAM, but I can follow basic technical directions. So I am guessing it is easier to buy a Hitachi and quiet the drive, rather than buy a WD and run widdle. Also, it seems more people come here and say how they messed up running widdle on a WD than messed up using AAM on the Hitachi. Am I correct in my thinking?


Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the two Hitachi's are pretty much the same drive. I have one in my other Tivo and it's been chugging along for about a year and a half with no problems. I don't think you'd go wrong with either one. I would steer clear of NewEgg for hard drives unless you get one in a retail package, their packaging almost guarantees a bad or short lived drive... I know from experience. I buy all my drives from Amazon and they have great protective packaging for OEM drives.

As far as disabling intellipark on WD drives if you can burn a CD it's pretty much a no brainer. You connect the drive to a SATA cable on the PC and boot to the CD which brings up DOS prompt, type the command and it does it's thing.

My personal preferences lead me to the WD A/V line of drives mainly because they are almost silent and also are made for DVRs, if that really means anything, but I've convinced myself it does.


----------



## eaayoung

Pardon me in advance for this off topic question. But I know this thread will answer my question...

The HD in my iMac 24" is dying. I already tried to re-format but still getting errors and it won't boot sometimes. Has anyone on this thread replaced the HD in their iMac? How hard was it? Seems fairly straight forward from the U Tube videos I've watched. 

Any recommendations on which drive to use? The current HD is a 500 gig WD model. Quiet and fast. Was thinking to use a similar drive. But which one... Maybe the black models.


----------



## Mchero

lrhorer said:


> Barefoot, with a 90 lb backpack!


Uphill both ways!


----------



## emerz

eaayoung said:


> Maybe the black models.


My advice, stay away from the Black model if you are noise sensative. I installed a 2T Caviar Black in my PC. It was so noisy I couldn't stand it. No way to adjust a AAM either. I would up replacing it with a Hitachi.

The Black models are super fast but the downside is the noise.


----------



## rxrepli

I have just completed imaging a WD20EVDS with the 2TB Image Mr. Broflovski has generously made available to us. I have not installed it yet, but I wanted to share my thanks and appreciation to all in this community that make the TiVo experience even better!

Using WinMFS to do the upgrade appeared to have run smoothly and Mfsinfo reports the following:
Total SA SD Hours: 2083	Total DTV SD Hours: 1818	100 % Free
Software: 11.0d-01-2-652	Tivo Model: not set in MFS

When I attempted MfsSupersize, I did receive the following message, Sorry! MfsSupersize failed!

After I complete the WD Data LifeGuard Diagnostics extended test and I get the opportunity to install the drive into the TiVo, Ill report any additional learnings I can share.


----------



## MPSAN

donnoh said:


> Well my new 2TB WD20EVDS showed up early yesterday evening and I couldn't wait to install it. Here's how it went.
> 
> Ran wdidle3 to change the intellipark time to 300 seconds - no problems
> 
> Installed the image - at least I thought I did, more about that later.
> 
> Installed the new drive in the Tivo - twice, (I put it in backwards the first time), put it back in entertainment center, power it up and nada, zip, I get the gray screen right after it powers up.
> 
> I pull it back out, crack open the case and discover that it would work better if I would have actually plugged in the drive.
> 
> Re-install the Tivo, power it up and it comes up like a new Tivo, I run guided setup and wait for it to download the program data.
> 
> Go to the system info screen to behold the 318 hours of HD storage and what do I see? Up to 20 whopping hours of storage space...*(^R%$#!
> 
> Take the Tivo back out, re-install the image and this time I check the estimated number of hours and it looks to be correct this time. I'm really not sure what I did wrong the first time.
> 
> Re-install the drive back in the Tivo, put it back in the entertainment center and power it up. Once again the gray screen, my dumb arse forgot to plug in the drive a second time! What an idiot.
> 
> Correct my mistake, re-install the Tivo, power it up, run guided setup and FINALLY see the 318 hours of HD programming space!!!
> 
> The one thing that I didn't expect to see work though was my Cable Card. I assume that Charter doesn't pair the cards to the device in my area. This was an unexpected surprise to not have to deal with one of their phone reps.
> 
> Overall it went well if you throw out my stupidity. I didn't have to do a C&D everything, it just came up like a new Tivo. The only real pain was re-entering 60 season passes over again and putting in my 20 digit WPA security code.
> 
> Thank you Mr. Broflovski!


Did it get 11.0g yet? What version does it show?


----------



## MPSAN

cjv2 said:


> If you play the Tivo backwards it says "cooookie, nom nom nom."


OH...I will have to try that the next time I open 1 up to upgrade!


----------



## MPSAN

lrhorer said:


> Well, I'm not so sure they are, really. People are going to tend to post when they have a drive problem. The majority of people who don't have any problems are going to remain silent. That said, bit densities are getting higher and higher, meaning the magnetic domains are smaller and smaller. This is going to make errors more common. Most are recoverable, but inevitably some will not be, and the rate of unrecoverable errors is going to tend to rise with an overall error rate increase. Secondly, two tuners does place a much higher load on the drive than one tuner. Every time the cache is flushed for one of the streams, it's going to force a seek to what will probably be a very different part of the disk. Thus, rather than more or less smoothly skating across the platters (incremental seeks), the heads are going to chatter continuously like a busybody's teeth in a gossiping contest. This puts a much heavier load on the head servo and the electronics that control it. Finally, the seek rate for HD content is going to be easily six times higher than for SD content.


Well, so much has gone on between even the IDE133 and the SATA drives of today. With embedded servos, Perpendicular recording and MANY other things like advanced head tech, high track and bit density they are improved...along with MTBF. They all run cooler as well, with fewer platters and single bearings!

Anyway, there are so many things that could be done. One cool thing would be to have the OS/Firmware of the THD in a type of EEPROM. It could be updated but TV and the buffer would still, of course go to the DASD. Then if there were a bad sector...so what. It would be a glitch during playback. Also, this bad sector could be mapped out and not used again. I am not sure it would even cost much to do this.

Also, it would be fun to try a SATA SSD for a real silent Bedroom THD! While I was working I would have taken one home by now to try!

Anyway, I am sure this is way OT!


----------



## donnoh

MPSAN said:


> Did it get 11.0g yet? What version does it show?


It's got a pending restart, I assume to install the .g revision, it currently has 11.0.d. I'm holding off on the re-start until it finishes transfering a few programs from my other Tivo.

I'll report back if it goes ok, but I assume it will based on a post reported earlier by another member that upgraded his HD to this same image and got the .g image with no problems.


----------



## MPSAN

donnoh said:


> It's got a pending restart, I assume to install the .g revision, it currently has 11.0.d. I'm holding off on the re-start until it finishes transfering a few programs from my other Tivo.
> 
> I'll report back if it goes ok, but I assume it will based on a post reported earlier by another member that upgraded his HD to this same image and got the .g image with no problems.


Yup, that must be the update.


----------



## donnoh

I checked my Tivo this morning and it sucessfully installed the 11.0g software release with no problems on the Mr. Broflovski image. So far so good.


----------



## wolf rayet

Hi All,
Just wanted to share my external hard drive up grade experience. I picked up a remanufactured S3 from Woot last month for $175.00 and wanted to bring up the 30hrs HD storage to something a little more respectable. So I picked up a 1Tb Hitachi Deskstar Model# E7K1000 and a Sabrent eSATA hard drive enclosure with fan, slipped the drive into the enclosure connected it to my S3and followed the instructions spelled out on this forum. All is working well, I went from 30hrs HD to 178hrs in a matter of a few minuets. To finish a BIG THANKS! for all the helpful people in this community, AGAIN THANKS!


----------



## nickhaas33

2tb WD drives coming down now too.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-na-_-na&AID=10446076&PID=361116&SID=FW8t6x1e

Don't really know if this particular model will work with TIVO

Oops, looks like it will not work out of the box...
Other Thoughts: For those complaining about incompatibility, slow speeds, or other issues with drives that end in EARS: This is an 'Advanced Format' drive, which uses 4kB sectors instead of the normal 512B sectors older drives use. This results in better space efficiency. However Windows XP (and apparently TiVo) doesn't work well with the new block size. It can be switched back using a jumper, or you can use a program to realign it. More information can be found by checking Wikipedia article on "Advanced Format" and viewing external links.


----------



## richsadams

nickhaas33 said:


> 2tb WD drives coming down now too.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-na-_-na&AID=10446076&PID=361116&SID=FW8t6x1e
> 
> Don't really know if this particular model will work with TIVO
> 
> Oops, looks like it will not work out of the box....


That info appears to be outdated. There were concerns when the drives came out a couple of months ago, but a number of folks here are successfully using EARS model drives in their TiVo's now (you can do a search for some testimonies). The 4Kb sector issue apparently has no affect (on TiVo).


----------



## RayChuang88

I wonder does WD has any plans for a 2 TB version of _My DVR Expander_? Imagine adding in up to 300 *MORE* hours of HD video storage.


----------



## alyssa

I don't think I'd trust anything with the "my" in it.
We had a couple of mybooks which failed within a year or two.
Isn't there a thread about the huge failure rate of the MyDVR's?


----------



## jadziedzic

RayChuang88 said:


> Imagine adding in up to 300 *MORE* hours of HD video storage.


Imagine losing all your recordings when the 2Tb MyDVR Expander goes belly up.


----------



## cjv2

jadziedzic said:


> Imagine losing all your recordings when the 2Tb MyDVR Expander goes belly up.


Imagine one day needing more than 640K.

Oh wait, wrong technology discussion, my bad.


----------



## donnoh

I bought a 500GB MyTivo expander about 2 years ago. I retired it to my home built WHS box about a year and a half ago and it's been fine ever since.

In a different life it's been ok.


----------



## RayChuang88

I'm still hoping that we'll see external eSATA 1 TB and 2 TB drives from Hitachi and Seagate that will work easily with either the TiVo S3 or Premiere DVR's.

Mind you, I think within three years we may have eSATA 1 TB and 2 TB _solid state_ drives that will work with a TiVo box.


----------



## reversengineer

I just caught this HITACHI Deskstar HD31000 IDK/7K (0S00163) 1TB HDD for $70 from NewEgg last week and performed the drive swap described at the top of this post. All went well, and my upgraded TIVO HD is operating flawlessly. It took about 2 hours for the copy process considering all the recordings I had on the original drive. Just be patient. I had the new drive connected via USB to SATA converter, and I hooked the original TIVO drive straight to my computer's motherboard and PSU.

Just to be sure (for now), here is the newegg item number to the exact drive I got:
Item=N82E16822145287


----------



## richsadams

RayChuang88 said:


> I'm still hoping that we'll see external eSATA 1 TB and 2 TB drives from Hitachi and Seagate that will work easily with either the TiVo S3 or Premiere DVR's.
> 
> Mind you, I think within three years we may have eSATA 1 TB and 2 TB _solid state_ drives that will work with a TiVo box.


And how long did you say that you could hold your breath? 

FWIW the ability to add a Seagate or Hitachi or most any other 1TB eSATA HDD drive to a Series3 via P&P has been available for several years now.


----------



## kdzenith

jjberger2134 said:


> I am in the beginning stages of looking for a hard drive to put in my TiVoHD. I am pretty set on buying the Hitachi Deskstar drive that is recommended in these pages. However, when I look around I see two different Hitachi models. Does anyone know the difference between:
> 
> Hitachi Deskstar HD31000 IDK/7K and Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000.C
> 
> Which is the preferred drive? I have seen both models recommended. I think the IDK/7K is the one currently on sale (only at Newegg).
> 
> I am leaning toward the Hitachi, since it _seems_ like it would be easier to run the AAM software than to disable the Intellipark settings on the WD drives. I would rather have a bit extra noise from the hard drive (that could possibly be quieted), than not have the drive work properly due to Intellipark. I am not experienced at all with the features of widdle or AAM, but I can follow basic technical directions. So I am guessing it is easier to buy a Hitachi and quiet the drive, rather than buy a WD and run widdle. Also, it seems more people come here and say how they messed up running widdle on a WD than messed up using AAM on the Hitachi. Am I correct in my thinking?


I purchased the 1 TB Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000.C HDS721010CLA332 from Newegg, just before the HD310000 sale was announced. I don't recall a significant price difference at the time. I do NOT know if they are really the same drive or not. I chose the 7K1000.C because I read a post somewhere that said the new C class Jupiter drives were significantly quieter than the B Class. Could be true, could be hearsay. My drive is very quiet!!! Easily the equal of my original 250GB WD in the Series 3. Very easy install, very easy to turn the AAM down using HDD Scan 3.2. I would buy again without hesitation.

As for Newegg, my drive arrived completely bubblewrapped with foam peanuts to fill the rest of the box. Could not have been wrapped better. On the other hand, I have previously experienced very poor packing on a Newegg HDD shipment - so inconsistent - or maybe they finally got the message to do a better job!!


----------



## dgarrick

richsadams said:


> So far two members have successfully upgraded their TiVo HD's with the WD10EARS drives:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7720023#post7720023
> 
> The first member followed up about a week later saying that all is well.
> 
> It's been more than a month and we'd probably hear about any issues they had, but perhaps they will confirm things are still good?


OK, three months later and NO problems with the WD10EARS internal expansion drive in my TiVo unit. Use it every night and record many shows per day.

Now if I can figure out a way to mass-delete the 1500+ shows in my Recently Deleted folder!?! [I know, I know, just ignore them and they will eventually go away]


----------



## dswallow

dgarrick said:


> Now if I can figure out a way to mass-delete the 1500+ shows in my Recently Deleted folder!?! [I know, I know, just ignore them and they will eventually go away]


Make one really long recording; then delete it.


----------



## jjberger2134

kdzenith said:


> I purchased the 1 TB Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000.C HDS721010CLA332 from Newegg, just before the HD310000 sale was announced. I don't recall a significant price difference at the time. I do NOT know if they are really the same drive or not. I chose the 7K1000.C because I read a post somewhere that said the new C class Jupiter drives were significantly quieter than the B Class. Could be true, could be hearsay. My drive is very quiet!!! Easily the equal of my original 250GB WD in the Series 3. Very easy install, very easy to turn the AAM down using HDD Scan 3.2. I would buy again without hesitation.
> 
> As for Newegg, my drive arrived completely bubblewrapped with foam peanuts to fill the rest of the box. Could not have been wrapped better. On the other hand, I have previously experienced very poor packing on a Newegg HDD shipment - so inconsistent - or maybe they finally got the message to do a better job!!


That is good to know. Thanks. I am partial to Amazon for some reason, and I think I will wait a bit to see if the Hitachi drive goes on sale there or if I can get it locally. From the reading that I have done, it_ seems_ easier to run the AAM software (download and run) than widdle (download, burn, change BIOS boot to CD, etc). Am I correct? I want the easier and least technical solution possible.


----------



## rxrepli

rxrepli said:


> Using WinMFS to do the upgrade appeared to have run smoothly and Mfsinfo reports the following:
> Total SA SD Hours: 2083	Total DTV SD Hours: 1818	100 % Free
> Software: 11.0d-01-2-652	Tivo Model: not set in MFS
> 
> When I attempted MfsSupersize, I did receive the following message, "Sorry! MfsSupersize failed!"
> 
> I'll report any additional learning's I can share.


Mr. Broflovski's image booted up flawlessly! The WD20EVDS drive has a March 2010 build date.

A few pages back, _bkdtv_ had asked if someone could test and confirm if the WD drives are compatible with the new software so I did not run wdidle3 before installing the drive. The 11.0g software update arrived Monday Night.

I regrettably need to report that even with the 11.0g software, the WD drive hangs upon restart. I will need to disable IntelliPark.


----------



## dgarrick

dswallow said:


> Make one really long recording; then delete it.


Well you may be saying that in jest but that's the best advice I've heard so far on how to empty the Recently Deleted folder!


----------



## donnoh

rxrepli said:


> Mr. Broflovski's image booted up flawlessly! The WD20EVDS drive has a March 2010 build date.
> 
> A few pages back, _bkdtv_ had asked if someone could test and confirm if the WD drives are compatible with the new software so I did not run wdidle3 before installing the drive. The 11.0g software update arrived Monday Night.
> 
> I regrettably need to report that even with the 11.0g software, the WD drive hangs upon restart. I will need to disable IntelliPark.


My WD drive works flawlessly after the upgrade, but I did run the wdidle3 change on it.

I really don't see what the big deal is with running wdidle3 on a drive as having to change the AAM? The WD A/V drives are super quiet so it's a choice of having to change the intellipark feature opposed to changing the AAM.

Both drives should be on the recommended list in my opinion.


----------



## rxrepli

donnoh said:


> My WD drive works flawlessly after the upgrade, but I did run the wdidle3 change on it.
> 
> I really don't see what the big deal is with running wdidle3 on a drive as having to change the AAM? The WD A/V drives are super quiet so it's a choice of having to change the intellipark feature opposed to changing the AAM.
> 
> Both drives should be on the recommended list in my opinion.


I expect that my drive will work exactly as yours after running wdidle3 and I agree that this drive should be on the recommended list. It is incredibly quiet and perfect for a bedroom based TiVo.

There is no big deal in running wdidle3 or AAM, except in my case I can't run wdidle3 on a Mac Pro. I believe most want the recommended drives to be somewhat Plug-n-Play, like the older WD A/V drives were before IntelliPark.


----------



## RickyY

dswallow said:


> Make one really long recording; then delete it.


You can go to the "Deleted Folder" and pernamently delete each one (by selecting each one and hitting the clear button). One at a time if it bothers you that much.


----------



## RickyY

rxrepli said:


> Mr. Broflovski's image booted up flawlessly! The WD20EVDS drive has a March 2010 build date.
> 
> A few pages back, _bkdtv_ had asked if someone could test and confirm if the WD drives are compatible with the new software so I did not run wdidle3 before installing the drive. The 11.0g software update arrived Monday Night.
> 
> I regrettably need to report that even with the 11.0g software, the WD drive hangs upon restart. I will need to disable IntelliPark.


Wow, I was hoping that I wouldn' thave to worry about wdidle3 once I get the 11.0g upgrade. Guess, it will be better to be safe and do everything at once (wididle3 and adjusting aam) before putting the new HD back in the tivo.


----------



## wood252ota

After reading all this, it looks like a WD10EVDS is ok to put in an HD as long as you run the wdidle3 fix ? Also do you really need to adjust the aam on this drive ? I thought it was quiet already. Thanks


----------



## farlz00

Hello All,
I should have read more into this before doing my upgrade, I had to replace my TivoHD with another and decided to try to take the original stock tivo out and upgrade to a 1TB on the new tivohd. Got the hardware error. How long does it take to "clear and delete everything" on a 1TB drive w/no recordings? Would I be better off just re-doing the upgrade with MFStools with the stock drive of the new tivo? I was aiming to save my season passes going from old tivo to new tivo, but that doesn't seem possible.
Thanks!


----------



## bubagump

Hi,
I have a TivoHD with an upgraded internal 1TB drive. I just removed an external 1TB eSATA drive from this tivo and it went through the whole press clear and press thumbs down three times to remove the drive. Now the screen says "removing external drive. This may take a while......" It has been at this screen for a while now (30 mins). Is this normal? Any suggestions?
thanks


----------



## richsadams

bubagump said:


> Hi,
> I have a TivoHD with an upgraded internal 1TB drive. I just removed an external 1TB eSATA drive from this tivo and it went through the whole press clear and press thumbs down three times to remove the drive. Now the screen says "removing external drive. This may take a while......" It has been at this screen for a while now (30 mins). Is this normal? Any suggestions?
> thanks


Very normal...it all depends on how many recordings have been made since the eSATA drive was attached. It could easily take several hours if it's near capacity. My only suggestion would be to let it do its thing and do NOT unplug anything in the meantime. IIRC it will reboot once all is said and done.


----------



## rxrepli

wood252ota said:


> After reading all this, it looks like a WD10EVDS is ok to put in an HD as long as you run the wdidle3 fix ? Also do you really need to adjust the aam on this drive ? I thought it was quiet already. Thanks


From my experience, I believe the WD10EVDS will operate correctly in a TiVo HD after wdidle3 has been run. Personally, I do not see the need for AAM. This drive is quiet enough for me not to notice unacceptable noise in a bedroom.


----------



## richsadams

farlz00 said:


> Hello All,
> I should have read more into this before doing my upgrade, I had to replace my TivoHD with another and decided to try to take the original stock tivo out and upgrade to a 1TB on the new tivohd. Got the hardware error. How long does it take to "clear and delete everything" on a 1TB drive w/no recordings? Would I be better off just re-doing the upgrade with MFStools with the stock drive of the new tivo? I was aiming to save my season passes going from old tivo to new tivo, but that doesn't seem possible.
> Thanks!


AFAIK using the new TiVo HD image to upgrade is about the only choice you have. If you ever need to replace it again (that is, substitute one TiVo for another on the same account) you can subscribe to KidZone or TiVo Guru Guides and your Season Passes and Wish Lists will eventually be repopulated on the new box.


----------



## bubagump

richsadams said:


> Very normal...it all depends on how many recordings have been made since the eSATA drive was attached. It could easily take several hours if it's near capacity. My only suggestion would be to let it do its thing and do NOT unplug anything in the meantime. IIRC it will reboot once all is said and done.


Great. Thanks for the reassurance! There were really no recordings on the external drive. I was just experimenting with adding an external drive. I hope it will reboot soon..


----------



## richsadams

wood252ota said:


> After reading all this, it looks like a WD10EVDS is ok to put in an HD as long as you run the wdidle3 fix ? Also do you really need to adjust the aam on this drive ? I thought it was quiet already. Thanks


It'll work fine. WD GP drives are very quiet out of the box and the EVDS is an A/V dedicated drive (24 dBA - 25 dBA) so as rxrepli mentioned, you shouldn't need to make any AAM adjustments.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

RickyY said:


> You can go to the "Deleted Folder" and pernamently delete each one (by selecting each one and hitting the clear button). One at a time if it bothers you that much.


With the TiVo HD you can hit the "clear" button rapidly and it will queue it. So you can easily delete a screen's worth of programs (you need to start at the top of the screen). This behavior improved from how the DirecTiVo made you wait for each deletion to finish. I never delete from within the "Deleted" folder, so I don't know if this hint works in that (perhaps special) folder.


----------



## richsadams

bubagump said:


> Great. Thanks for the reassurance! There were really no recordings on the external drive. I was just experimenting with adding an external drive. I hope it will reboot soon..


Recordings are actually striped across both drives, so there's really nothing native to one drive or the other but your TiVo will be reindexing everything (sans the recordings made after the eSATA drive was attached) so it could still take a little while, again depending on how many recordings you have.


----------



## MrPnstrpSuit

Quick questions, what's the maximum addressable drive I can mount?


----------



## filmont

Just though I'd post my experience on the up grade. It's going to be a little long winded so hold on!
1. Bought Series 3 on ebay w/o HDD

2. Instantcaked a random 320GB HDD with no problems. (mounted HDD and CDROM to sata expansion card)

3. Bought the Hitachi 3100 1TB from Newegg (during their $70 sale)

4. Used WinMFS to upgrade the new disk.
a) Made a truncated backup of the 320GB drive with a NexStar - 3 external case (made by Vantec)
b) Swapped the 1TB and did a restore. (forgot to supersize it but did it later w/o any problems)

5. Booted the Tivo with new drive. After the "few minutes more" screen it green screened. I left it alone and it kept rebooting and getting to that point and repeating quickly. After about the 8th reboot it stayed on the green screen for much longer. It took about an hour on the last green screen but after that success!

Please feel free to contact me with questions.


----------



## richsadams

filmont said:


> Just though I'd post my experience on the up grade.


Congratulations on your "new" TiVo! Odd that it went through several reboots though, that's not normal. When you say "green screen" do you mean that the MFS Assert screen (often known as the GSOD) appeared? It looks like this...

http://i16.tinypic.com/4pwebmx.jpg

Or was it actually a green screen with no text?

The GSOD will generally appear when TiVo encounters data corruption of some nature. The program works to resolve the corruption and isolate any bad sectors on the hard drive (if they exist). Things should go normally but if you run into any issues going forward it might be wise to run a diagnostic on your new drive to be sure it doesn't have any problems.

Enjoy!


----------



## filmont

Yeah, it was the GSOD. I thought about pulling the plug on it, but I figured I'd let do its thing. It's my second Tivo so I didn't need it right away.


----------



## richsadams

filmont said:


> Yeah, it was the GSOD. I thought about pulling the plug on it, but I figured I'd let do its thing. It's my second Tivo so I didn't need it right away.


Wise move...always avoid pulling the plug during a GSOD! Enjoy all of that new real estate!


----------



## filmont

Oh, I will! Just waiting for the warranty to end on my TivoHD and then that one is going to upgraded.


----------



## bubagump

richsadams said:


> Recordings are actually striped across both drives, so there's really nothing native to one drive or the other but your TiVo will be reindexing everything (sans the recordings made after the eSATA drive was attached) so it could still take a little while, again depending on how many recordings you have.


It finally rebooted. Thanks Rich for your reply or I would have been pulling at all sorts of cables looking at that screen.


----------



## richsadams

bubagump said:


> It finally rebooted. Thanks Rich for your reply or I would have been pulling at all sorts of cables looking at that screen.


 :up:


----------



## brettatk

I've upgraded several Tivos with WD drives and I've never adjusted the AAM. They have all been very quiet right out of the box.


----------



## Jonathan_S

MrPnstrpSuit said:


> Quick questions, what's the maximum addressable drive I can mount?


It depends on which TiVo you're upgrading and how you perform the upgrade.

For the newest Tivos, the Premieres, the publicly avalible upgrade tool (WinMFS) doesn't support them yet. To upgrade one of them you'd need to buy a pre-imaged drive and I believe those are avalible up to 2 TB.

The S3 family (TiVo S3, TiVo HD, TiVo HD XL) have a partition size limitation that causes issues with the upgrade tools. (A single partition much bigger that 1 TB causes errors). So because of the way the public upgrade tools work the max workable drive size depends on which TiVo you started with. * With the TiVo HD you're basically stuck with a 1 TB drive using WinMFS.
(Note, there's a new upgrade technique for the TiVo HD using the "Broflovski image" that will allow you to get to 2 TB)
* With the TiVo HD XL you can use up to a 2 TB drive.

For the old S2 TiVos I'm not sure. They probably have the same partition limit as the S3 family, so I'd assume basically 1 TB or less.


----------



## SugarBowl

I am going to convert a 500 gig windows drive that I have, into a Tivo drive for my series 3. Do i need to use windows disk management to first delete the windows partition? Then i will need to fix the tivo boot page? WinMfs says to guess for Option 1 or Option 2. Is there an 'educated' guess in my situation ?


----------



## JoeTaxpayer

I am looking at a Western Digital. It states "Advanced Format Hard Drive" and there are some warnings on New Egg's site where the 1GB drive is listed. 
Anyone use one of these drives in their TiVo?


----------



## richsadams

JoeTaxpayer said:


> I am looking at a Western Digital. It states "Advanced Format Hard Drive" and there are some warnings on New Egg's site where the 1GB drive is listed.
> Anyone use one of these drives in their TiVo?


Can you please post a link to the specific drive (or at least a model number)?


----------



## JoeTaxpayer

richsadams said:


> Can you please post a link to the specific drive (or at least a model number)?


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-_-na-_-na&AID=10440897&PID=404255&SID=137750

"Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EARS 1TB 5400 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive "

This is the link to WD's description of the formatting; http://www.wdc.com/en/products/advancedformat/

Thanks, Rich.


----------



## richsadams

JoeTaxpayer said:


> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-_-na-_-na&AID=10440897&PID=404255&SID=137750
> 
> "Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EARS 1TB 5400 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive "
> 
> This is the link to WD's description of the formatting; http://www.wdc.com/en/products/advancedformat/
> 
> Thanks, Rich.


Several members are successfully using that particular drive in their TiVo's. :up:

The reference is to WD's new 4Kb sector technology which doesn't affect TiVo.

BTW you will need to run wdidle.exe to disable or extend the timeout of the Intellipark feature. (See Section IV, #29 of the faq).

Happy upgrading!


----------



## SugarBowl

SugarBowl said:


> I am going to convert a 500 gig windows drive that I have, into a Tivo drive for my series 3. Do i need to use windows disk management to first delete the windows partition? Then i will need to fix the tivo boot page? WinMfs says to guess for Option 1 or Option 2. Is there an 'educated' guess in my situation ?


Turns out it didn't matter. Copying the original tivo drive to a windows drive (ntfs) set up everything on the new drive perfectly.


----------



## donnoh

Here's an update on using the "Broflovski" image for nearly a week now.

The Tivo appears to be working fine, it's starting to record suggestions, I've had no hangs and it upgraded to 11.0.g just fine including re-booting during the night.

One thing that I've noticed happen twice that I've never seen before is that I've turned my TV on twice now and the Tivo has been on the NPL. A press of the Tivo button or the Live TV button results in a bong sound. Pressing the left arrow takes me to Tivo central and everything is ok after that. I don't know if this a glitch somewhere in the image or just some anomaly. It is definitely something I can live with.


----------



## JoeTaxpayer

richsadams said:


> BTW you will need to run wdidle.exe to disable or extend the timeout of the Intellipark feature. (See Section IV, #29 of the faq).


Thanks - worst case, I can just pull plug to reboot. I'll remember to look through entire FAQ in the future.


----------



## richsadams

JoeTaxpayer said:


> Thanks - worst case, I can just pull plug to reboot. I'll remember to look through entire FAQ in the future.


I haven't used it, but everyone says the wdidle.exe program is very easy to run. If the Intellipark "feature" isn't disabled or extended it causes TiVo to hang at the "Welcome" screen after a soft reboot. About the only time you would notice it would be after TiVo pushes an update which usually happens about once per quarter or so. As you say you could always do a hard reboot, but again, it's apparently very easy and quick to do so if you have the drive connected to your PC, you might as well do it. Your call of course. Enjoy!


----------



## ssolomo

spocko said:


> Thanks to bkdtv for maintaining this great guide!
> 
> Some suggestions related to AAM in faq #31:
> 
> - It should mention that Hitachi Feature Tool doesn't support external drives connected via USB/firewire.
> 
> - An alternative tool worth mentioning is hddscan. This tool runs under windows and it does support some USB-connected drives.
> 
> http://hddscan.com/
> 
> My experience is that I have 2 different brands of external USB drives, buth using WD drives, and hddscan allowed me to change the AAM setting on both. Strangely is does not allow me to change features on my internal drives (an IDE Maxtor, and a SATA WD). HFT on the other hand does support my internal drives, but not the USB ones.


Interesting you say this as I just finished doing an MFScopy to my new WD 10EACS and the HDDScan isn't working (the two selections under the "features" menu are grayed out and cannot be selected - where the AAM setting is). I posted a question in their forum but it probably is because the drive is connected directly to the motherboard SATA controller. Really, even though it is sitting on top of a box connected to the computer, it is barely audible so I'm probably not going to mess with the Hitachi tool. The TiVo is in a cabinet (yes, ventilated) regardless.

Thanks to all for the great info on this forum.

Steven


----------



## richsadams

spocko said:


> Thanks to bkdtv for maintaining this great guide!
> 
> Some suggestions related to AAM in faq #31:
> 
> - It should mention that Hitachi Feature Tool doesn't support external drives connected via USB/firewire.
> 
> - An alternative tool worth mentioning is hddscan. This tool runs under windows and it does support some USB-connected drives.
> 
> http://hddscan.com/


Hmmm. Section IV #31 of the FAQ actually discusses upgrading with 1.5TB and 2TB hard drives. Section IV, #32 of the FAQ disucsses changing hard drive AAM settings. Maybe you missed these parts?



> Note Hitachi Feature Tool only works on SATA and eSATA connected drives; it does not work on USB connected drives.





> The easiest way to change the AAM is to download and run the free Hddscan for Windows utility.


In any case, enjoy your upgrade!


----------



## Marconi

I've searched the upgrade FAQ and don't see any mention of whether the TiVo HD models use SATA I or SATA II drives. Looking at the original WD drive from my THD, it has a jumper block but the label mentions only adding a jumper to Power Up In Standby. Most SATA II drives include instructions for adding a jumper to limit the drive to SATA I speeds, where the application requires it. So far then, the original WD1600AVVS looks like a SATA I device. So...

Looking at WD's description of the WD1600AVVS I see that WD says only that it requires a SATA connection. Clicking the WD Interface Guide link, takes you to a page that says that SATA drives have a 150 or 300 Mbps data rate. No help there as they don't distinguish SATA I from II.

Of course, even if the WD1600AVVS is a SATA I device, that does not necessarily mean that THD cannot handle SATA II drives; its controller may in fact be SATA II.

The bottom line is this: should an upgrade SATA II drive put into a THD have the jumper installed limiting it to SATA I speeds? It would be handy if the FAQ mentioned this.


----------



## richsadams

Marconi said:


> The bottom line is this: should an upgrade SATA II drive put into a THD have the jumper installed limiting it to SATA I speeds? It would be handy if the FAQ mentioned this.


The simple answer would be no. (I think you'd be hard pressed to find a computer that requires a "throttle down" to 1.5Gb/s data throughput these days.)

Stick with any of the recommended drives on the FAQ, follow the upgrade directions to the letter and you'll be good to go. Happy upgrading! :up:


----------



## Marconi

richsadams said:


> Stick with any of the recommended drives on the FAQ, follow the upgrade directions to the letter and you'll be good to go.


The FAQ itself is for Series 3 DVRs. My sister has failing drives in her Series 2 DVR. Will the same SATA drives recommended for Series 3 boxes work in the Series 2 boxes (with a PATA to SATA adapter, of course)?


----------



## jlib

Marconi, don't worry about the SATA revisions. TiVos are backwards compatible. And yes, all the drives used in TiVos since the S3 are SATA 3Gb/s (including the WD1600AVVS) but it would make no difference performance-wise since no hard drives (save some of the new solid state drives) can even saturate the 1.5Gb/s bus.

http://www.serialata.org/developers/naming_guidelines.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA#SATA_II_misnomer


----------



## MPSAN

Marconi said:


> I've searched the upgrade FAQ and don't see any mention of whether the TiVo HD models use SATA I or SATA II drives. Looking at the original WD drive from my THD, it has a jumper block but the label mentions only adding a jumper to Power Up In Standby. Most SATA II drives include instructions for adding a jumper to limit the drive to SATA I speeds, where the application requires it. So far then, the original WD1600AVVS looks like a SATA I device. So...
> 
> Looking at WD's description of the WD1600AVVS I see that WD says only that it requires a SATA connection. Clicking the WD Interface Guide link, takes you to a page that says that SATA drives have a 150 or 300 Mbps data rate. No help there as they don't distinguish SATA I from II.
> 
> Of course, even if the WD1600AVVS is a SATA I device, that does not necessarily mean that THD cannot handle SATA II drives; its controller may in fact be SATA II.
> 
> The bottom line is this: should an upgrade SATA II drive put into a THD have the jumper installed limiting it to SATA I speeds? It would be handy if the FAQ mentioned this.


Well, the WD spec does show SATA II for the WD1600AVVS...

Performance Specifications	
Rotational Speed	IntelliPower *
Buffer Size	8 MB
Transfer Rates
Buffer To Host (Serial ATA)	3 Gb/s (Max)
Physical Specifications	
Formatted Capacity	160,041 MB
Capacity	160 GB
Interface	SATA 3 Gb/s
User Sectors Per Drive	312,581,808


----------



## jppowers

As I have not posted the resiquite 5 times, I can not use the PM feature. Is there another way to obtain the image?

Joe P


----------



## rxrepli

rxrepli said:


> Mr. Broflovski's image booted up flawlessly! The WD20EVDS drive has a March 2010 build date.
> 
> A few pages back, _bkdtv_ had asked if someone could test and confirm if the WD drives are compatible with the new software so I did not run wdidle3 before installing the drive. The 11.0g software update arrived Monday Night.
> 
> I regrettably need to report that even with the 11.0g software, the WD drive hangs upon restart. I will need to disable IntelliPark.


Today I was preparing to open the TiVo and remove the drive so I could run wdidle3 /S300. Since I was not looking forward to disconnecting everything, I thought it would be best to try doing a soft reboot just to see if the TiVo now running the 11.0g software for a week had magically fixed itself.

To my surprise, the TiVo rebooted normally! It DID NOT hang upon restart. To be sure this was not an anomaly, I did a menu restart a second time, and again the TiVo restarted normally. Before sharing this news I did a third menu restart, and as twice before it did not hang and restarted perfectly.

At this time I might be the only person who did not run wdidle3 before installing the WD20EVDS drive with the IntelliPark fully enabled. Based on this experience, I believe the Western Digital "Green" drives are fully compatible with the TiVoHD after it receives the 11.0g software update.

Maybe when others can replicate my findings, bkdtv can update the FAQ to reflect this.

To those who want to use the WD drives, I hope this makes you more comfortable. To bkdtv thank you for all your efforts here, to richsadams thank you for all of your support, and to spike thank you for WinMFS.

Now off to enjoy my Supersized TiVo!


----------



## richsadams

jppowers said:


> As I have not posted the resiquite 5 times, I can not use the PM feature. Is there another way to obtain the image?P


Hi Joe and welcome to the forum. Which image are you looking for?


----------



## richsadams

rxrepli said:


> Today I was preparing to open the TiVo and remove the drive so I could run wdidle3 /S300. Since I was not looking forward to disconnecting everything, I thought it would be best to try doing a soft reboot just to see if the TiVo now running the 11.0g software for a week had magically fixed itself.
> 
> To my surprise, the TiVo rebooted normally! It DID NOT hang upon restart. To be sure this was not an anomaly, I did a menu restart a second time, and again the TiVo restarted normally. Before sharing this news I did a third menu restart, and as twice before it did not hang and restarted perfectly.
> 
> At this time I might be the only person who did not run wdidle3 before installing the WD20EVDS drive with the IntelliPark fully enabled. Based on this experience, I believe the Western Digital "Green" drives are fully compatible with the TiVoHD after it receives the 11.0g software update.
> 
> Maybe when others can replicate my findings, bkdtv can update the FAQ to reflect this.
> 
> To those who want to use the WD drives, I hope this makes you more comfortable. To bkdtv thank you for all your efforts here, to richsadams thank you for all of your support, and to spike thank you for WinMFS.
> 
> Now off to enjoy my Supersized TiVo!


Congrats on your upgrade! Unfortunately a few others have tried upgrading using WD GP drives w/o disabling the Intellipark feature (after receiving v11.0g) and were not successful...they still had the soft reboot problem. So a blanket recommendation wouldn't be prudent at this point.

However AFAIK you're the first to try it with a 2TB drive, so the drive itself may have something to do with it, the "hacked" 2TB image or something else, it's hard to tell. Did you happen to keep track of your drive's manufacture date? It's possible WD themselves have done something to remedy the situation making newer drives compatible (w/o any tweaking) again.

Hopefully some more pioneers will give some of the newest WD 1TB (and larger) hard drives a try before disabling Intellipark to see if v11.0g has any effect on the soft reboot issue or if it's just 2TB drives (or the 2TB image).

Thanks very much for the valuable info. :up: Now go enjoy your "new/supersized" TiVo!


----------



## rxrepli

richsadams said:


> Congrats on your upgrade! Unfortunately a few others have tried upgrading using WD GP drives w/o disabling the Intellipark feature (after receiving v11.0g) and were not successful...they still had the soft reboot problem. So a blanket recommendation wouldn't be prudent at this point.
> 
> However AFAIK you're the first to try it with a 2TB drive, so the drive itself may have something to do with it, the "hacked" 2TB image or something else, it's hard to tell. Did you happen to keep track of your drive's manufacture date? It's possible WD themselves have done something to remedy the situation making newer drives compatible (w/o any tweaking) again.
> 
> Hopefully some more pioneers will give some of the newest WD 1TB (and larger) hard drives a try before disabling Intellipark to see if v11.0g has any effect on the soft reboot issue or if it's just 2TB drives (or the 2TB image).
> 
> Thanks very much for the valuable info. :up: Now go enjoy your "new/supersized" TiVo!


Rich,

Going into this I thought I would need to run IntelliPark so I did not write down any specific drive information before putting the TiVo back together. However, I did make note of the build date, March 2010. Thanks again.


----------



## trunksy

Why don't you still show the Cinemastar 7K1000 (model HCS721010KLA330) as discontinued? It looks like it has been removed completely without any notes as to why it was removed like the WD Eco Green drives which have an admonishment not to buy them. You can still buy them from many online retailers including newegg.com or buy.com.

I would prefer to buy the most recent version of the drive, the Cinemastar 7K1000.C (model HCS721010KLA332) but I haven't been able to find those for sale except on a Chinese website.

It looks like newer versions of the drives are only being sold directly to manufacturers and integrators only but I'm hoping some online retailers might be able to get their hands on them if there's a knowledge and consequently desire by customers to purchase them.


----------



## Marconi

bkdtv said:


> If you think you may have installed one of these newer Western Digital "Green" drives in your TiVo, but are not sure, there is a simple test. Restart your TiVo through the Messages & Settings -> Restart or Reset TiVo menu. If your TiVo boots properly (give it ten minutes), then you have an older drive that does not exhibit the issue. If the TiVo refuses to boot until you pull the power plug, then the procedure described above should eliminate that problem. It has no known ill effects and it will not affect your TiVo software or recordings.


I'm not so sure this test tells all there is to know.

I have two THDs that both pass this software restart test, though one had a WD10EVVS (19 September, 2009) drive and the other had a WD10EVDS.

These DVRs tend to suffer the GSAS (Green Screen And Screech) crash within seconds of each other. I noted that on two occasions, one would reboot by itself, the other would not. I noted too that on a couple of occasions, THD1 would crash by itself and it would not reboot automatically; I had to pull the plug.

Just yesterday, I switched to a Seagate Pipeline 1 TB drive, replacing the WD10EVVS that had been in it. This morning, that DVR crashed and rebooted itself. Coincidence? Is it Just One Of Those Things or did changing the drive (which passes the software reboot test) to a Seagate allow it to reboot?

I don't know. But I'll be watching to see whether subsequent crashes are followed by reboots with the Seagate Pipeline drive in this DVR.


----------



## richsadams

rxrepli said:


> Rich,
> 
> Going into this I thought I would need to run IntelliPark so I did not write down any specific drive information before putting the TiVo back together. However, I did make note of the build date, March 2010. Thanks again.


Good info. :up:

So for those that follow...possibly WD GP hard drives manufactured after X date March 2010 may not need the Intellipark "feature" disabled. (I think we can assume everyone with a TiVo Series3 or TiVo HD/HDXL has received v11.0g by now.)

FUTURE UPGRADERS: If you are going to upgrade your TiVo Series3 or TiVo HD/HDXL using a Western Digital GP (green) hard drive your help is needed. If the drive was manufactured sometime in March 2010 or later and is 1TB or greater, try performing the upgrade and installing it w/o disabling Intellipark (running wdidle.exe). Then try a soft reboot (menu restart) and let us know if it hangs on the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen. Posting your results will be very valuable to those that follow.

Everyone's help would be appreciated because I know I'd like to see these drives go back in the "fully recommended" category myself!


----------



## bkdtv

Marconi said:


> Of course, even if the WD1600AVVS is a SATA I device, that does not necessarily mean that THD cannot handle SATA II drives; its controller may in fact be SATA II.


The TiVoHD's Broadcom chip has a SATA-I interface, but it makes no difference, because SATA drives autodetect SATA-I or SATA-2 and switch as appropriate. Some older drives and controllers had a problem with that, hence the switch, but that is unnecessary on the newer drives and the TiVo.

SATA-II drives work fine in the TiVo HD.



trunksy said:


> Why don't you still show the Cinemastar 7K1000 (model HCS721010KLA330) as discontinued? It looks like it has been removed completely without any notes as to why it was removed like the WD Eco Green drives which have an admonishment not to buy them. You can still buy them from many online retailers including newegg.com or buy.com.


At the time the change was made, I did not see the drive for sale any longer. I re-added that drive to the list.

Several people have asked me to add a download link and/or information on Mr. Broflovski's hacked image to the FAQ. Forum management does not allow download links to the TiVo software, or specific discussion of hacked software. Hence, I'm not certain how to handle that subject in the first post.


----------



## lew

bkdtv said:


> Several people have asked me to add a download link and/or information on Mr. Broflovski's hacked image to the FAQ. Forum management does not allow download links to the TiVo software, or specific discussion of hacked software. Hence, I'm not certain how to handle that subject in the first post.


The forum allowed discussion about, and links to, the zipper. Discussion about superpatch. I'd call that hacked software. I was surprised TCF allowed such discussion. I'm not sure where TCF draws the line.


----------



## richsadams

Marconi said:


> I'm not so sure this test tells all there is to know. <snip>


Hi Marconi. Based on this and some of your other posts (and remedies we've discussed) I think you have other issues (signal, etc.) and that the reboots you're experiencing have nothing to do with whichever drive you have, the soft reboot issue or otherwise. That you're still experiencing reboots with a Seagate drive Vs a WD tends to confirm that. Reboots (outside of updates) are never "normal".


----------



## donnoh

rxrepli said:


> Rich,
> 
> Going into this I thought I would need to run IntelliPark so I did not write down any specific drive information before putting the TiVo back together. However, I did make note of the build date, March 2010. Thanks again.


I also used the WD20EVDS drive with a March build date and the Broflovski image but did run wdidle3 on it before I did anything else. Maybe I'm imagining things but I thought I read on here somewhere that the Tivo HDXL works ok on WD drives without running wdidle3. Since the Broflovski image uses parts of the XL software that may explain it.

Once again I'm not sure if I read this about the XL or my mind is playing tricks on me. It would be nice to know if someone does a 1TB upgrade without running wdidle3 if it soft boots ok.


----------



## Marconi

richsadams said:


> Hi Marconi. Based on this and some of your other posts (and remedies we've discussed) I think you have other issues (signal, etc.) and that the reboots you're experiencing have nothing to do with whichever drive you have, the soft reboot issue or otherwise.


I think you missed the point of my post.

The soft reboot issue is very much drive dependent, agreed? I'm just saying that passing the test (restarting DVR through the settings menu) does not seem to be the sole predictor of whether you'll need to pull the plug to reboot.

I never said or even hinted that the drive was _causing_ the crashes. Those are obviously other problems. But, it does appear, to me, that the THD with the Seagate Pipeline is more likely to automatically reboot following a crash than when it had the WD10EVVS that passed the soft reboot test.

I believe the WD10EVVS was, despite having passed the soft reboot test, preventing auto-reboot.


----------



## MPSAN

lew said:


> The forum allowed discussion about, and links to, the zipper. Discussion about superpatch. I'd call that hacked software. I was surprised TCF allowed such discussion. I'm not sure where TCF draws the line.


The >1gb image links can not be made public per the agreement that was needed before the download link(s) were given. Just sayin...


----------



## lew

MPSAN said:


> The >1gb image links can not be made public per the agreement that was needed before the download link(s) were given. Just sayin...


No problem. There is no logic to what's allowed in TCF. I didn't realize there was an agreement. Bkdtv doesn't want to put the link in his "sticky". I thought the issue was still open.


----------



## richsadams

Marconi said:


> I think you missed the point of my post.
> 
> The soft reboot issue is very much drive dependent, agreed? I'm just saying that passing the test (restarting DVR through the settings menu) does not seem to be the sole predictor of whether you'll need to pull the plug to reboot.
> 
> I never said or even hinted that the drive was _causing_ the crashes. Those are obviously other problems. But, it does appear, to me, that the THD with the Seagate Pipeline is more likely to automatically reboot following a crash than when it had the WD10EVVS that passed the soft reboot test.
> 
> I believe the WD10EVVS was, despite having passed the soft reboot test, preventing auto-reboot.


Oh, okay, I see your point, my mistake. There's certainly a difference between rebooting from a menu restart (soft reboot) Vs a unexpected hard reboot of some sort (power failure, etc.) However I'm not sure that's what you meant by a "crash". As long as the WD rebooted properly from a menu restart that only means it doesn't have the Intellipark soft reboot problem. Whether one hard drive will reboot after a failure better than another hasn't ever come up AFAIK. Interesting thought, but if that were true we probably would have seen some sort of long-term correlation in various posts over the years. That said, those sorts of reboots are fairly rare so there may not be enough data to say one way or another. Interesting thought though.


----------



## jlb

I have been having freeze/reboot issues lately. Could it be this 11g (?) software causing any issues? I would doubt it.

I have a TiVoHD with a 500gb expander and using the Siig cable.

Something must be going bad. Regardless of if it is the Expander or the original drive, I am toying with getting an upgrade drive.

Weakknees or DVR?

Do I try changing out the Siig cable first? Do i divorce the expander (Would like to wait until after finale season if possible)? Etc.

Not sure the best course of action........


----------



## jlb

It just seems weird that the problems I have been experiencing are so recent and close in timing to this 11.0.g update........


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

jlb said:


> Something must be going bad. Regardless of if it is the Expander or the original drive, I am toying with getting an upgrade drive.
> 
> Weakknees or DVR?


Your third choice would be to follow the steps in the 1st post of this FAQ and go the WinMFS route and a bare drive.



jlb said:


> It just seems weird that the problems I have been experiencing are so recent and close in timing to this 11.0.g update........


It's all anecdotal evidence. Mine happens to be competely different. I had lots of problems with the previous software. I suspected my problems were due to bad MyDVR expanders. I then replaced the old internal drives and expanders with new, higher capacity internal drives. Since then I haven't had problems, even after my boxes updated themselves to the 11.0.g software.


----------



## richsadams

jlb said:


> It just seems weird that the problems I have been experiencing are so recent and close in timing to this 11.0.g update........


Agree with Phantom, it's not likely v11.0g is causing your TiVo any problems. Historically there are always reports of issues right after an update but this time it has been surprisingly quiet.

Based on your description the most likely culprit is your eSATA drive. Have a look at this post to see if anything fits and your options...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7553444#post7553444

I also agree that if you're going to upgrade your internal drive DIY is the way to go if you're comfortable connecting a hard drive to a PC. Everything you need to know is in the first post of this sticky thread. It looks a little complicated, but once you do it, it's really quite easy. Otherwise DVRUpgrade and others have pre-imaged drives you can drop in. (DVRUpgrade is a TCF sponsor BTW)

Best of luck and let us know how things go!


----------



## jlb

I might consider the DIY route but I do like the idea of a drop in. My only concern with drop in is possibly having to repair my M series cable card, right? Or does that info get written to some mem on the MB (which I doubt)?

I am ok with having to redo the rest of GS and setting up my SPs again. I assume I might also have to re-enable my remote address and things like stereo equipment power codes, amazon vod password, etc.

I see both DVR Upgrade and Weakknees are sponsors. How do I choose which one if I go that route? Right now, it seems DVR is a tad cheaper....

Also, is it worth just trying a new enclosure for the WD expander first?

Rich, if possible, can we have an email dialog on this as I cannot get to the forum at my client's offices? Thanks!


----------



## Nihilator

richsadams said:


> FUTURE UPGRADERS: If you are going to upgrade your TiVo Series3 or TiVo HD/HDXL using a Western Digital GP (green) hard drive your help is needed. If the drive was manufactured sometime in March 2010 or later and is 1TB or greater, try performing the upgrade and installing it w/o disabling Intellipark (running wdidle.exe). Then try a soft reboot (menu restart) and let us know if it hangs on the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen. Posting your results will be very valuable to those that follow.


Well, I thought I'd have something relevant to add, but the drive I'm using has turned out to be older than March 2010. In any event:

Tivo HD with original drive, 11.0g software. Purchased a retail-boxed 1.5TB WD15000CSRTL drive from Best Buy for $99, which turns out to be a WD15EARS, build date of 15 DEC 2009. Used a Cavalry dual-dock and WinMFS (beta 9.3f) to perform the backup and restore/copy (which took about 4.5 hours), and I'm now sitting on 198 HD / 1733 SD hours.

I'm also at 10 minutes and counting on the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen after a soft-reset, so Intellipark is still an issue.

It doesn't bother me. I don't have a PC with SATA capability, and the incremental cost and trouble of finding and installing an adapter (in my old IDE PC) is more than just performing a power cycle every four to six months. Plus, eventually someone will make a utility that I can use with the SATA dock to change the Intellipark parameters, so I'll just wait it out.

--Chris

PS - Ignore the signature. I was very active here way back in the day!


----------



## aclinml

Hi, guys. Great forum. I just completed my internal hard drive upgrade, and all is well except one minor thing. I was able to get the Hitachi 1 TB drive on the sale for $69.

I did the upgrade to copy all settings and programs. Like I said, everything went fine. After the copy was completed, I did get the next message..."Do you want to expand the drive?". I replied yes, and it came right back and said "Done". I powered the PC down and took the new drive and installed it in my TIVO HD. It came right up and my "Now Playing" list was complete with my original recordings. The only problem is, when I look at the Settings, Account information page, it only shows 142 HD hours of recording space. 

How come it did not show the expected 157 hours?

Should I hook it back up to my PC as drive A and select "MfsSupersize On"? 

Any ideas why this did not appear to get the extra 15 hours????

Thanks for any help,
Mike


----------



## SugarBowl

aclinml said:


> Hi, guys. Great forum. I just completed my internal hard drive upgrade, and all is well except one minor thing. I was able to get the Hitachi 1 TB drive on the sale for $69.
> 
> How come it did not show the expected 157 hours?
> 
> Should I hook it back up to my PC as drive A and select "MfsSupersize On"?
> 
> Any ideas why this did not appear to get the extra 15 hours????
> 
> Thanks for any help,
> Mike


yes, the supersize is an extra step that you have to do manually.


----------



## richsadams

aclinml said:


> How come it did not show the expected 157 hours?
> 
> Should I hook it back up to my PC as drive A and select "MfsSupersize On"?
> 
> Any ideas why this did not appear to get the extra 15 hours?


Hi Mike and congrats on your "new" TiVo! The Supersize option is a pop-up window that should have appeared when you clicked on it (if you followed the steps correctly). Unfortunately there seems to be a little bug that allows that pop-up to open behind the main winMFS window so you may not have seen it. (I always set the winMFS window a little to one side of the screen to be sure I see any pop-ups).

It's a simple matter of reconnecting your new drive to your PC, firing up winMFS once more and selecting Supersize from the drop-down menu to get the full amount of space though. It won't affect anything else and you should be good to go.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## richsadams

Nihilator said:


> Well, I thought I'd have something relevant to add, but the drive I'm using has turned out to be older than March 2010. In any event <snip>


Thanks for that...good info in any case. :up:


----------



## richsadams

jlb said:


> I might consider the DIY route but I do like the idea of a drop in. My only concern with drop in is possibly having to repair my M series cable card, right? Or does that info get written to some mem on the MB (which I doubt)?
> 
> I am ok with having to redo the rest of GS and setting up my SPs again. I assume I might also have to re-enable my remote address and things like stereo equipment power codes, amazon vod password, etc.
> 
> I see both DVR Upgrade and Weakknees are sponsors. How do I choose which one if I go that route? Right now, it seems DVR is a tad cheaper....
> 
> Also, is it worth just trying a new enclosure for the WD expander first?
> 
> Rich, if possible, can we have an email dialog on this as I cannot get to the forum at my client's offices? Thanks!


Unfortunately if you buy a third-party hard drive it would be the same as buying a brand new TiVo, you'll have to deal with cable card setup, etc. BTW some cableco's will allow you to call in the cable card info to pair them, others are not so progressive and require a truck roll.

I think you're talking about the codes to turn your stereo and TV on/off, etc.? If so, that info is stored in your TiVo remote, so it will still work normally.

Based on about a year's worth of posts now it seems like it's about 50/50 with respect to the WD My DVR Expander failures being an actual hard drive Vs enclosure problem. A number of folks have been able to pull the hard drive out of their Expander, slip it into a new enclosure and be back in business. Others haven't been so lucky.

AFAIK Weaknees isn't a TCF sponsor, they just advertise here (although being a TC Club Member, I don't see any ads). I believe only DVRUpgrade is an actual sponsor and FWIW the owner is a great guy. My loyalty lies with those that support "us", but I know they are both reputable companies and take good care of their customers.

Best of luck and feel free to PM me with your e-mail if you have any questions.


----------



## dswallow

jlb said:


> I see both DVR Upgrade and Weakknees are sponsors. How do I choose which one if I go that route? Right now, it seems DVR is a tad cheaper....


Go by price. Weaknees bought DVR Upgrade so you're buying from the same company, no matter which site you do it from. Personally I'd buy from someone on eBay. I'm not a Weaknees fan.


----------



## jlb

I have always tinkered with computers but for whatever reason, nervous as heck about doing an upgrade. My hand is being forced now due to my apparently starting to die 500gb Expander.

With much thanks to Rich Adams I am taking the plunge and taking the expander out of the loop and doing an internal upgrade.

I too am going with the Hitachi 1tb drive. I ordered the drive and a Sata USB dock rather than opening my PC up. 

This is something I should have done a long time ago, but better late than never.

And again, Rich, thanks for the hand-holding during this part of the process!!!


----------



## JoeTaxpayer

Thank you for your kindness Rich. I got the image and see it boots up the PC. 

One (dumb) question - I have two Series 3 TiVos (the THX model). Can I install the drive into TiVo B, transfer all programs from A to B and then put that drive into TiVo A? i.e. can drives set up in same model TiVos be moved around and keep their programing?
If not, I can do a move to a computer and then load back up, as if I owned just the one TiVo. Just asking as I'm sure this has come up before. Somewhere.


----------



## richsadams

dswallow said:


> Weaknees bought DVR Upgrade so you're buying from the same company, no matter which site you do it from.


Really? I did not know that.  I have to start paying closer attention to these things.


----------



## richsadams

jlb said:


> And again, Rich, thanks for the hand-holding during this part of the process!!!


Glad to help and give back as it were. You can buy me a virtual beer when all is said and done.


----------



## aclinml

Thanks, Guys. Don't know how I missed it during the copy, but I hooked my hard drive back up to my computer, did the Supersize, and now I'm the proud parent of a 157 pound....uh, hour TIVO HD. Finally, I don't have to review my programs and schedule before going out of town for a few days.

I really appreciate those who keep the 'Upgrade' thread up to date with info on drives that will work on the different boxes.

OK, I'm off to do some recording!
Mike


----------



## richsadams

JoeTaxpayer said:


> One (dumb) question - I have two Series 3 TiVos (the THX model). Can I install the drive into TiVo B, transfer all programs from A to B and then put that drive into TiVo A? i.e. can drives set up in same model TiVos be moved around and keep their programing?
> If not, I can do a move to a computer and then load back up, as if I owned just the one TiVo. Just asking as I'm sure this has come up before. Somewhere.


Not a dumb question at all. I'm not sure about your plans though. If you mean, can you upgrade TiVo "A", then transfer all of the recordings on TiVo "B" to the "new" TiVo "A", that would be a yes. But if you mean can you do the above and then put the new TiVo "A" drive in TiVo "B" I don't believe so as IIRC it would give you a hardware conflict message. I'm not clear about why you'd want to do that, but I hope that helps or maybe I misunderstood your question altogether...wouldn't be the first time. Happy upgrading!


----------



## txporter

JoeTaxpayer said:


> Thank you for your kindness Rich. I got the image and see it boots up the PC.
> 
> One (dumb) question - I have two Series 3 TiVos (the THX model). Can I install the drive into TiVo B, transfer all programs from A to B and then put that drive into TiVo A? i.e. can drives set up in same model TiVos be moved around and keep their programing?
> If not, I can do a move to a computer and then load back up, as if I owned just the one TiVo. Just asking as I'm sure this has come up before. Somewhere.


While the drive will technically work in either Tivo, when switching from one Tivo to the other, you will be required to do a Clear and Delete Everything since the Tivo will recognize that it came from a different unit (serial number??). That will defeat your ability to move recording around.


----------



## Jonathan_S

JoeTaxpayer said:


> Thank you for your kindness Rich. I got the image and see it boots up the PC.
> 
> One (dumb) question - I have two Series 3 TiVos (the THX model). Can I install the drive into TiVo B, transfer all programs from A to B and then put that drive into TiVo A? i.e. can drives set up in same model TiVos be moved around and keep their programing?
> If not, I can do a move to a computer and then load back up, as if I owned just the one TiVo. Just asking as I'm sure this has come up before. Somewhere.


Yeah, you can't move the full drive between TiVo (succesfully) because to resolve the HW error you have to clear & delete a drive after transfering it to a new TiVo.

But if you're doing the drive upgrade yourself using the WinMFS tools there is an option to copy a TiVo drive, including all recordings and settings, to the new larger drive.

And if you're using a drive image or purchasing a plug-and-play preimaged drive upgrade, rather than WinMFS, there are still a couple options for saving your shows.

You could certainly use TiVo desktop to copy the shows from TiVo A to your computer, then upgrade TiVo A and transfer them back. (Well, depending on how your cable provider set the copy protection bits. Some shows may not be transferable).

Or, assuming suffient space in TiVo B, you could:
1) transfer the shows from TiVo A to TiVo B (using Multi-Room Viewing)
2) upgrade the drive in TiVo A
3) tranfer the shows TiVo B back to TiVo A
(Same copy restriction limitations apply, but copies between TiVo are usually faster than copies between a TiVo and PC.)


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

dswallow said:


> Go by price. Weaknees bought DVR Upgrade so you're buying from the same company, no matter which site you do it from. Personally I'd buy from someone on eBay. I'm not a Weaknees fan.


D'oh. I forgot about Fleabay, but it's certainly an option. So there are 2, no ... 3, no ... 4 different ways to upgrade:

Weaknees
DVRupgrade
DIY using WinMFS
one or more sellers on eBay

Sometimes it's nice to have choices. If only it were that easy to upgrade disks on iMacs.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

Jonathan_S said:


> Yeah, you can't move the full drive between TiVo (succesfully) because to resolve the HW error you have to clear & delete a drive after transfering it to a new TiVo.


Yes, *Clear & Delete Everything* after booting is very important. Without it the TiVo will appear to sort of work, but that's just a patina, it will be fundamentally broken.



> You could certainly use TiVo desktop to copy the shows from TiVo A to your computer, then upgrade TiVo A and transfer them back.


Yes that works, but copying from a TiVo HD it's slower than real-time. So copying 30 hours of HD can take an entire weekend (don't ask how I know that!). Perhaps with the GP poster's original S3 it will be faster.


----------



## JoeTaxpayer

richsadams said:


> I'm not clear about why you'd want to do that, but I hope that helps or maybe I misunderstood your question altogether...wouldn't be the first time. Happy upgrading!


It just seemed an easy way to preserve the recordings. You got it right. I understand, and suspected the HD becomes tied to the unit. With multiple TiVos in the house, I'll take my time moving recordings around to free up the S3 to install the new drive. Instant Cake took 3 minutes, and the software you pointed me to, seconds. Thanks again. I'm set for now.


----------



## Marconi

richsadams said:


> MFS Supersize frees up extra space reserved for storing tivoclips; the advertising videos that are downloaded periodically.


Oh, I bet the TiVo folks love that!

Is there a way to supersize without Windows/WinMFS? (Mac user here.)

Any chance of seeing the supersize script so it can be replicated outside of WinMFS?


----------



## richsadams

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Sometimes it's nice to have choices. If only it were that easy to upgrade disks on iMacs.


From your lips to Mr. Job's ears.


----------



## richsadams

Marconi said:


> Oh, I bet the TiVo folks love that!
> 
> Is there a way to supersize without Windows/WinMFS? (Mac user here.)
> 
> Any chance of seeing the supersize script so it can be replicated outside of WinMFS?


Hmmm...I don't think so. Although some enterprising person could probably figure it out, but the somewhat minuscule gain probably wouldn't be worth it.


----------



## richsadams

JoeTaxpayer said:


> It just seemed an easy way to preserve the recordings. You got it right. I understand, and suspected the HD becomes tied to the unit. With multiple TiVos in the house, I'll take my time moving recordings around to free up the S3 to install the new drive. Instant Cake took 3 minutes, and the software you pointed me to, seconds. Thanks again. I'm set for now.


Cool. :up:


----------



## whitepelican

Marconi said:


> Is there a way to supersize without Windows/WinMFS? (Mac user here.)


There was a script posted years ago over at DDB called mkdiskconfig.tcl which basically did the same thing. I used it on several Series 2 DirecTivos before WinMFS ever existed, but I'm not sure about its compatibility with Series 3s. And I suppose you'd probably have to have a prom mod'd Series 3 to use it anyway, so it's most likely not very useful to most folks here.


----------



## jlb

Newegg Rocks! They continue to amaze me with great customer service. 

I live in Newburyport, MA and their warehouse (perhaps they have more than 1, dunno) appears to be in NJ.

I ordered my Hitachi 1TB drive and Thermaltake SATA USB doc yesterday at about 2pm. I chose the 3-5 day shipping, which was free on both items.

Well, the package is already "out for delivery" as of 7am from my "local" UPS hub.

HFC!!!!

Looks like I will be doing my first upgrade ever this weekend. Yay!


----------



## Marconi

whitepelican said:


> There was a script posted years ago over at DDB called mkdiskconfig.tcl which basically did the same thing. I used it on several Series 2 DirecTivos before WinMFS ever existed, ...


What is the deal with ".tcl" scripts? I've seen references to such scripts and the person making the reference always seems to assume the readers know how to apply such scripts.

I think I was interested in one such that fixed the "error 51" problem. But I haven't a clue how one runs such scripts. Where might I find info on these?


----------



## MPSAN

Marconi said:


> What is the deal with ".tcl" scripts? I've seen references to such scripts and the person making the reference always seems to assume the readers know how to apply such scripts.
> 
> I think I was interested in one such that fixed the "error 51" problem. But I haven't a clue how one runs such scripts. Where might I find info on these?


It is just a TEXT file that you can double click in Windows. Actually, you can Google windows tcl and get all you need/want to know about them.

Here is one place...

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/tcl-faq/tk/windows/

It is an old listing, but still gives good data and a google search can give you the software you need to run the tcl if you need it.


----------



## Zugig

Trying to upgrade a Series3 to a 1.5TD WD drive with WinMFS. First time it worked okay, seeing both the old and new drives and allegedly moving my shows as instructed. But once installed in the S3, it did the same thing the old drive did - failing to completely boot up and hanging in Now Playing. I thought I'd do the C&DE transfer instead but this time WinMFS could only see the new drive, not the old WD250. I've tried switching them around but cannot get the former drive recognized. Any ideas what might have changed to make it invisible to WinMFS?
BTW, is a 1.5TB drive okay? I know there used to be a 1TB limit, but I need all the space I can get.
Thanks,
Z


----------



## richsadams

Zugig said:


> Trying to upgrade a Series3 to a 1.5TD WD drive with WinMFS. First time it worked okay, seeing both the old and new drives and allegedly moving my shows as instructed. But once installed in the S3, it did the same thing the old drive did - failing to completely boot up and hanging in Now Playing. I thought I'd do the C&DE transfer instead but this time WinMFS could only see the new drive, not the old WD250. I've tried switching them around but cannot get the former drive recognized. Any ideas what might have changed to make it invisible to WinMFS?
> BTW, is a 1.5TB drive okay? I know there used to be a 1TB limit, but I need all the space I can get.
> Thanks,
> Z


Sorry to hear that you're having problems with your TiVo and the upgrade. It sounds like the OS image on your original hard drive has become corrupted...possibly to the point that it can no longer be used. I would try reinstalling your original hard drive in your TiVo and running some of TiVo's built-in diagnostic and repair programs called "Kickstarts":

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

If that doesn't do it you may need to buy a fresh image using a third-party program called Instant Cake:

http://www.dvrupgrade.com/dvr/stores/1/instantcake.cfm

Unfortunately that will create what is basically a brand new TiVo so none of your recordings, cable card pairing, etc. would be saved.

With regard to using drives larger than 1TB, read through the FAQ, specifically Section IV, #31.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


----------



## jjberger2134

I am ready to order my drive for my TiVoHD upgrade. I just want to confirm with someone (maybe Richsadams or someone that recently and successfully upgraded their drive) that this is the proper drive to buy:

*Hitachi 1 TB Deskstar SATA 7200 RPM 32 MB Cache Internal Hard Drive HD31000 IDK/7K - Retail*

I have decided to run AAM on the Hitachi Drive rather than mess around with Intellipark settings on the WD drives.

Additionally, I believe this drive comes with a SATA cable, but not a molex power connector, right?

Any reason NOT to buy this drive? The only additional item I need to buy is the molex power connector?

Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

jjberger2134 said:


> I am ready to order my drive for my TiVoHD upgrade. I just want to confirm with someone (maybe Richsadams or someone that recently and successfully upgraded their drive) that this is the proper drive to buy:
> 
> *Hitachi 1 TB Deskstar SATA 7200 RPM 32 MB Cache Internal Hard Drive HD31000 IDK/7K - Retail*
> 
> I have decided to run AAM on the Hitachi Drive rather than mess around with Intellipark settings on the WD drives.
> 
> Additionally, I believe this drive comes with a SATA cable, but not a molex power connector, right?
> 
> Any reason NOT to buy this drive? The only additional item I need to buy is the molex power connector?
> 
> Thanks!


Yes, that's the right drive (the drive in the box is a Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000.c). Yes the retail kit you listed comes with a SATA cable but not a molex power adapter. I have two of those drives in an NAS and they run very quiet and cool. I didn't change the AAM of course, but if you do it should be even quieter.

If you don't have an open SATA power lead coming out of your computer's power supply you can certainly use a molex SATA power adapter like this one (or this one if you need to split the power between two drives, one SATA and one IDE). However if your computer is fairly recent and the CD/DVD drive is SATA you could borrow that power connector.

So it sounds like your all set to roll. Happy upgrading!


----------



## jjberger2134

richsadams said:


> Yes, that's the right drive. Yes it comes with a SATA cable but not a molex power adapter. I have two of those drives in an NAS and they run very quiet and cool. I didn't change the AAM of course, but if you do it should be even quieter.
> 
> If you don't have an open SATA power lead coming out of your computer's power supply you can certainly use a molex SATA power adapter like this one. However if your computer is fairly recent and the CD/DVD drive is SATA you could borrow that power connector.
> 
> So it sounds like your all set to roll. Happy upgrading!


Thanks Rich. But if I understand correctly, I will need to power 3 drives simultaneously in the PC while I do the upgrade (stock TiVo drive, new Hitachi upgrade drive, and main PC drive). I checked the insides the other day of my 6 month old HP PC, and found that the CD/DVD drive has a SATA cable and SATA power cable just like you mention, but all the other power connectors in the box are the 4 pin molex type (see picture - black connector is to DVD and white one is spare).

So yes, I could borrow the CD/DVD connectors for 1 drive, but would need another set of cables for the other drive. Right?

And, since I am buying the drive from Amazon, I thought I would buy their power adapter...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0027AGK3M/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER


----------



## richsadams

jjberger2134 said:


> Thanks Rich. But if I understand correctly, I will need to power 3 drives simultaneously in the PC while I do the upgrade (stock TiVo drive, new Hitachi upgrade drive, and main PC drive). I checked the insides the other day of my 6 month old HP PC, and found that the CD/DVD drive has a SATA cable and SATA power cable just like you mention, but all the other power connectors in the box are the 4 pin molex type (see picture - black connector is to DVD and white one is spare).
> 
> So yes, I could borrow the CD/DVD connectors for 1 drive, but would need another set of cables for the other drive. Right?
> 
> And, since I am buying the drive from Amazon, I thought I would buy their power adapter...
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0027AGK3M/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER


Ah yes, if you're intending to save settings _and_ recordings you'd need both your original TiVo drive and your new drive connected to your computer and powered up at the same time. Since your computer's drive is already powered that adapter should work just fine to deliver power to the other two.


----------



## cr33p

Hey all, just to confirm I recently installed a new WD15EARS into my S3
TCD648250, installed stock image no disabling of intellipark and have had no software reboot issues.  Looks like thes drives are a go, I will also test in a TivoHD unit as well

WD15EARS Build Date March 19th 2010


----------



## richsadams

cr33p said:


> Hey all, just to confirm I recently installed a new WD15EARS into my S3
> TCD648250, installed stock image no disabling of intellipark and have had no software reboot issues.  Looks like thes drives are a go, I will also test in a TivoHD unit as well
> 
> WD15EARS Build Date March 19th 2010


That is good news indeed. Hopefully someone will be able to try out one of the more recent WD GP 1TB drives as well. To be clear, you used your stock TiVo image, not the special 1.5TB/2.TB image correct?

Thanks for that! :up:


----------



## Marconi

MPSAN said:


> It is just a TEXT file that you can double click in Windows. Actually, you can Google windows tcl and get all you need/want to know about them.


I don't do Windows. I'm a Mac user.

It appears that TCL comes on Mac OS X. I just need to find the scripts, I guess. Thanks for the explanation.


----------



## cr33p

richsadams said:


> That is good news indeed. Hopefully someone will be able to try out one of the more recent WD GP 1TB drives as well. To be clear, you used your stock TiVo image, not the special 1.5TB/2.TB image correct?
> 
> Thanks for that! :up:


That is correct sir no "special image" that only works in the TivoHD anyhow correct? 
I didnt buy any of the newer WD1tb drives. the 1.5 was only 10 bux more, although I did pick up a 1tb Hitachi for 69 shipped, the retail kit, what a steal


----------



## MPSAN

Marconi said:


> I don't do Windows. I'm a Mac user.
> 
> It appears that TCL comes on Mac OS X. I just need to find the scripts, I guess. Thanks for the explanation.


Glad to help a little.

Even though I do Windows, I do still have my Apple][+.


----------



## serenity

Hi guys, just offering up a tip from my experience with replacing the TiVo hdd.

If you have an Asus mobo with AI Quiet (e.g. my p5w-dh from a few years back), setting the AAM will not work properly (it will appear to set the AAM to 128 but on reboot it will revert back to default!). This is no matter what tool you use (HDD Scan or Hitachi Tools). I found this out after noticing the hdd noise was surprisingly loud after I reinstalled it into my tivo the first time around. So I had to find another computer to set the AAM properly and have it stick.
Reference: www silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=58156


The second hitch was that setting AAM to 128 with Hitachi Tools would automatically set the mode to 'Enable (recommended value)' rather than 'Enable (user defined)'. The only way I could get around this was to select an AAM of 129 and then it stuck to 'Enable (user defined)'.

Has anyone else run into these issues at all?


----------



## whitepelican

Marconi said:


> I don't do Windows. I'm a Mac user.
> 
> It appears that TCL comes on Mac OS X. I just need to find the scripts, I guess. Thanks for the explanation.


TCL is just a programming language. The .tcl scripts that people refer to here are intended to be run on the Tivo itself. To do this you would need ftp/telnet access to the Tivo, which means it needs to be hacked. So, in reality, it is not very useful to most people here who have Series 3/TivoHD units unless they have replaced the prom in their Tivos.


----------



## Marconi

whitepelican said:


> TCL is just a programming language. The .tcl scripts that people refer to here are intended to be run on the Tivo itself. To do this you would need ftp/telnet access to the Tivo, which means it needs to be hacked. So, in reality, it is not very useful to most people here who have Series 3/TivoHD units unless they have replaced the prom in their Tivos.


Ooooooh... So it's not possible to enable telnet, ftp, ssh etc. on TiVo without PROM fiddling? I can't just copy over and enable the necessary binaries while I have the DVR drive removed?


----------



## whitepelican

Marconi said:


> So it's not possible to enable telnet, ftp, ssh etc. on TiVo without PROM fiddling?


Nope. Not on a Series 3 or TivoHD.


----------



## Marconi

whitepelican said:


> Nope. Not on a Series 3 or TivoHD.


What about my assorted Series 2 DVRs?


----------



## Zugig

Rich,
The original drive was unreliable before, prompting me to try the upgrade. I didn't really care about the programs on it but wanted to save cablecard setups, etc., so I ran the WinMFS transfer and thought it worked. I agree with you that the old drive is now officially NFG, but I think the problem might be mechanical rather than software as I had tried the kickstarts several times before and it fixed it for awhile but would then fail again. So I decided not to try that again and instead grabbed another of my Series3s, open the case, disconnected the drive and connected it to the PC to serve as the donor. I ran backup first, and am now running mfscopy. I couldn't find a way to not copy the programs, so Im doing that even though I don't care about them.
I'll let you know if it works this time. Thanks for you help and for your continued support of this group. You are a Godsend.
Regards,
Reid


----------



## whitepelican

Marconi said:


> What about my assorted Series 2 DVRs?


Someone else can check me if I'm wrong here, but I believe the only Series 2s that can be software hacked are the ones that have a service number starting with TCD1 or TCD2. So, not the DT models. Maybe your other Series 2s, depending on the model. You probably would want to visit the Underground forum here and look for more info of this type.


----------



## richsadams

Zugig said:


> Rich,
> The original drive was unreliable before, prompting me to try the upgrade. <snip>


Sounds good. :up: BTW, since you're using an image from a different TiVo you may run into a hardware error when booting up the "new" TiVo. Or it may appear to be okay, but may eventually not work properly. If that's the case you will probably have to do a Clear and Delete everything. Unfortunately that will most likely wipe your cable card pairing. Hopefully (if that's the case) your cableco will let you call in your cable card info instead of requiring a truck roll. (Unless you have FIOS in which case it won't make any difference as they don't pair cable cards).

Best of luck and let us know how it goes!


----------



## tivoknucklehead

my 500gb Western digital DVR expander just died. my tivo kept rebooting and then would not recognize it at all. Bought the new 1tb one and it works great. Only bad thing is I lost all my now playing shows


----------



## richsadams

tivoknucklehead said:


> my 500gb Western digital DVR expander just died. my tivo kept rebooting and then would not recognize it at all. Bought the new 1tb one and it works great. Only bad thing is I lost all my now playing shows


Sorry to hear about your loss. How old was it? A majority of posts indicate that the 500GB WD My DVR Expanders are lasting about 12 to 18 months. The good news (so far) is that the track record for the 1TB models seems to be much better. TIA.


----------



## cr33p

richsadams said:


> Sorry to hear about your loss. How old was it? A majority of posts indicate that the 500GB WD My DVR Expanders are lasting about 12 to 18 months. The good news (so far) is that the track record for the 1TB models seems to be much better. TIA.


Is it possible to disasemle a DVR expander and install a new drive and have the Tivo still pick the ID up properly? IE, a new 1tb drive into the old 500gb enclosure?


----------



## S3-2501

cr33p said:


> Is it possible to disasemle a DVR expander and install a new drive and have the Tivo still pick the ID up properly? IE, a new 1tb drive into the old 500gb enclosure?


Nope. The TivoHD recognizes only the specific drive model in the DVR expander, and not the enclosure itself. Any drive model other than the WD OEM one will not work via Plug and play in the enclosure.


----------



## Jonathan_S

cr33p said:


> Is it possible to disasemle a DVR expander and install a new drive and have the Tivo still pick the ID up properly? IE, a new 1tb drive into the old 500gb enclosure?


No, the Tivo is recognizing the drive, not the enclosure. (I think I've read some people have had the enclosure go bad, some moving the _drive_ to a new enclosure worked for them)


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

serenity said:


> The second hitch was that setting AAM to 128 with Hitachi Tools would automatically set the mode to 'Enable (recommended value)' rather than 'Enable (user defined)'. The only way I could get around this was to select an AAM of 129 and then it stuck to 'Enable (user defined)'.


I ran into this, but perhaps you're "out thinking" the Hitachi Tools. Maybe it's the Jenglish tripping you up. I think that when the tools read back a value of 128, they display 'Enable (recommended value)'.

The "recommended value" for AAM is 128. So by setting to 'Enable (recommended value)', you're just setting to 128. Which is what you want. A setting of 129 is probably just a little noisier, and is, as you discovered, "user defined".

IIRC if you download the Drive Fitness Test (from the same website as the Hitachi Tools), one of the screens can display the AAM value. Can't set it, can only display. IIRC mine read as 128 after I set as described above by using Hitachi Tools.


----------



## eaayoung

Jonathan_S said:


> No, the Tivo is recognizing the drive, not the enclosure. (I think I've read some people have had the enclosure go bad, some moving the _drive_ to a new enclosure worked for them)


Try moving the drive to a new case. My 500 gig MyDVR died and I successfully relocated the drive to another case. This thread has plenty of reccomendations for a new external case. I eventually dropped the external drive from my setup due to problems with the external drive and a tuning adapter.


----------



## serenity

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I ran into this, but perhaps you're "out thinking" the Hitachi Tools. Maybe it's the Jenglish tripping you up. I think that when the tools read back a value of 128, they display 'Enable (recommended value)'.
> 
> The "recommended value" for AAM is 128. So by setting to 'Enable (recommended value)', you're just setting to 128. Which is what you want. A setting of 129 is probably just a little noisier, and is, as you discovered, "user defined".
> 
> IIRC if you download the Drive Fitness Test (from the same website as the Hitachi Tools), one of the screens can display the AAM value. Can't set it, can only display. IIRC mine read as 128 after I set as described above by using Hitachi Tools.


Good to hear Im not alone 
Yes I suspected that 128 might be the recommended value, but just wanted to be on the safe side in case it wasnt or in case the recommended value changed


----------



## drewfidelic

My WD 500 GB DVR expander died this week after about 15 months of service with my TiVo HD. After being unable to boot, I replaced the internal disk with a 1TB WD AV-GP, which seems to be working well.

Unfortunately, I could not boot the TiVo to unpair the Expander. WinMFS could see the original 160 GB drive as a TiVo disk, but the PC couldn't access the MyDVR Expander drive at all. So, I reimaged using InstantCake (whose price has gone up from the reasonable $19.99 to the less reasonable $39.99.) Unfortunately, this lost my CableCard info and I can't use cable until TWC sends a service tech out to re-pair the CableCard-- which is frustrating, because all the tech who first setup the CableCards did was call the office and read numbers off the screen. I can read numbers off a screen-- but don't know enough about cable terminology to have TWC tech support do this over the phone. Blergh. 

So, kind of a major PITA, but at least I have more capacity with one less device sucking electricity, I suppose. It'd have been nice not to have to deal with the cable company.


----------



## richsadams

drewfidelic said:


> My WD 500 GB DVR expander died this week after about 15 months of service with my TiVo HD. After being unable to boot, I replaced the internal disk with a 1TB WD AV-GP, which seems to be working well.


Sorry to hear about your loss as well...but glad to hear that things are working even better than before. 15 months for a hard drive is pretty sad...WD should be embarrassed. It is frustrating that Cableco's won't let you read them the numbers. Some cableco's are pretty progressive and will let you do that, but others really need to catch up with the times.

Enjoy!


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

drewfidelic said:


> Unfortunately, I could not boot the TiVo to unpair the Expander.


This was also my experience. When my expander went south it also corrupted the software on my internal drive. My box would no longer boot, with or without an expander attached.


----------



## MPSAN

Phantom Gremlin said:


> This was also my experience. When my expander went south it also corrupted the software on my internal drive. My box would no longer boot, with or without an expander attached.


...and Rich would not drive over and give you an image?


----------



## jlb

jlb said:


> Newegg Rocks! They continue to amaze me with great customer service.
> 
> I live in Newburyport, MA and their warehouse (perhaps they have more than 1, dunno) appears to be in NJ.
> 
> I ordered my Hitachi 1TB drive and Thermaltake SATA USB doc yesterday at about 2pm. I chose the 3-5 day shipping, which was free on both items.
> 
> Well, the package is already "out for delivery" as of 7am from my "local" UPS hub.
> 
> HFC!!!!
> 
> Looks like I will be doing my first upgrade ever this weekend. Yay!


Looking forward to doing my first upgrade today. Off to soccer first and then I start the process.

Interestingly, I had been experiencing about 1 or maybe 2 freeze/reboots a day/night. But last night, while trying to watch 2 programs, I had 4 reboots/freezes. It's a good thing my drive came from Newegg so fast. I don't think I would have made it to next weekend (of course, I would have just pulled the Expander, but I digress).


----------



## sasmps

Considering the rating for this drive is a '7' (quiet), is it necessary to run the Hitachi Tools and set the AAM to 128?


----------



## Marconi

How important is it to use a drive that is designed for A-V use?


----------



## bkdtv

sasmps said:


> Considering the rating for this drive is a '7' (quiet), is it necessary to run the Hitachi Tools and set the AAM to 128?


As far as I know, AAM is already enabled on the Cinemastar drives.


----------



## jlb

Upgrade success! 157 Hours!!! Yayy!!!

The Hitachi 31000 drive I used is a Deskstar series and is listed in the top of the FAQ as a good drive to use.

I left the AAM where it was and did not change it. I can hear it, but in my room, maybe only during very quiet moments in a show will I notice it. I can always go back and change it if I want.

My first ever upgrade went smoothly. Many thanks again go to Rich Adams for his help during the decision making process and all.

And yes Rich, I can now say "well that was easy" (thanks for lending the phrase Staples).


----------



## bareyb

jlb said:


> Upgrade success! 157 Hours!!! Yayy!!!
> 
> The Hitachi 31000 drive I used is a Deskstar series and is listed in the top of the FAQ as a good drive to use.
> 
> I left the AAM where it was and did not change it. I can hear it, but in my room, maybe only during very quiet moments in a show will I notice it. I can always go back and change it if I want.
> 
> My first ever upgrade went smoothly. Many thanks again go to Rich Adams for his help during the decision making process and all.
> 
> And yes Rich, I can now say "well that was easy" (thanks for lending the phrase Staples).


Congrats. It's a great feeling isn't it? I've had Hitachi drives in both of my TiVos for over 2 years now. Work like a charm. :up:


----------



## jlb

Yes, it is a great feeling. And me being as anal as I am, I have 5 copies of my image: the original drive, a copy on my pc, a copy on my pc's external drive, and 2 CD copies. Excessive? 

I am just glad I know how easy it now is and that if I have any problems down the road, help is just one hard drive away.


----------



## cjgadd3

As long as we're sharing success stories, after a long procrastination, I upgraded the drive in my HD to a 500 GB Seagate. Followed the instructions on page 1 and went smooth as silk. Total time including transferring "my now playing" list was about an hour and a half. Went from 20 hours to 76 hours (HD).


----------



## richsadams

Wowee! All these new members of the TCF "Supersized" Club...kind of brings a tear to my eye. 

Congrats guys and enjoy!!


----------



## richsadams

Marconi said:


> How important is it to use a drive that is designed for A-V use?


It's not. A/V dedicated drives are quiet because as mentioned, they already have the AAM set low. They also have a number of other features that for better or worse TiVo can't take advantage of. For that reason they often command a higher price.

The bottom line is to stick with one of the recommended hard drives in the FAQ and you'll be in good shape.


----------



## Keen

After a mere 7 months, my 1TB MyDVR Expander started having issues. Time to order some new hardware to replace my Tivo HD's internal drive.  Am I reading the FAQ correctly, my non-XL Tivo HD can have a 1TB internal drive and a 1TB external drive? I think I'll be going for that.


----------



## richsadams

Keen said:


> Am I reading the FAQ correctly, my non-XL Tivo HD can have a 1TB internal drive and a 1TB external drive? I think I'll be going for that.


That's correct. Happy upgrading!


----------



## Keen

Snagged a 1TB WD Green drive at Best Buy today. Followed the steps in the FAQ (except for the wdidle stuff), and I'm up and running. Instead of burning the wdidle files to a disk, I used UNetbootin to make a USB flash drive into a FreeDOS boot disk. I copied over the wdidle.exe file, and rebooted. The wdidle.exe was on the "C:\" drive, and I ran it per the instructions in the FAQ. Now I've got 157 hours of HD recording to fill up again!  In a few weeks I'll get an external 1TB drive setup so I won't have to worry about space... for a month or two, hehe.

Got it started up just in time for the new episodes of Treme and Breaking Bad to start recording.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

richsadams said:


> It's not. A/V dedicated drives are quiet because as mentioned, they already have the AAM set low. They also have a number of other features that for better or worse TiVo can't take advantage of.


Drives with firmware meant for RAID applications do something WD calls Time Limited Error Recovery. I believe the same general idea is in A/V drives. Most people would rather the drive give up quickly in trying to read data (even if this means the screen displays garbage for a second or two), rather than retrying for seconds or even minutes.

Having said all that, I still chose to live dangerously by buying a non A/V, non RAID application Hitachi drive.


----------



## jlib

Yes, the TLER of an enterprise RAID drive is like the lazy error correction mode of an AV drive but TLER, if enabled, is always on. The RAID controller is assumed to be in charge of error recovery. You can use an enterprise RAID drive (assuming you have one quiet enough) in a TiVo but there is not the normal error recovery one might want for important data such as your operating system or your season pass database. I have used one (because it was free) for several years to no ill effect, though. There is also a WD utility that lets you disable it on drives that are capable of TLER so a RAID drive can act as a normal drive. _Edit: The link you provided says they no longer make that utility available nor recommend its use on current models (probably due more to marketing stratification rather than technical issues)._

An AV drive's error correction is dependent upon commands received from the host before each request. The idea of the AV drive is that error recovery is turned down for the streaming (non-critical information) but turned on for operating system functions. The TiVo doesn't speak that language (at least the Series 3 ones) so the drive behaves normally and the only advantage to using such a drive is its detuned seek performance which means one does not have to manually set the AAM level.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

jlib said:


> An AV drive's error correction is dependent upon commands received from the host before each request. The idea of the AV drive is that error recovery is turned down for the streaming (non-critical information) but turned on for operating system functions. The TiVo doesn't speak that language (at least the Series 3 ones) so the drive behaves normally and the only advantage to using such a drive is its detuned seek performance which means one does not have to manually set the AAM level.


Wow. I had no idea that A/V drives are sophisticated enough to provide the capability to dynamically change their recovery strategy. Too bad TiVo doesn't take advantage of that.


----------



## rcamille

Can anyone tell me if WinMFS works with a Windows 7 64 Bit operating system? I have upgraded a couple of TiVo HD's in the past using my WinXP computer, but now a buddy of mine wants his TiVoHD upgraded and all of my computers are running Windows 7 64 bit.

Any feedback woudl be appreciated.

Thanks


----------



## dswallow

rcamille said:


> Can anyone tell me if WinMFS works with a Windows 7 64 Bit operating system? I have upgraded a couple of TiVo HD's in the past using my WinXP computer, but now a buddy of mine wants his TiVoHD upgraded and all of my computers are running Windows 7 64 bit.
> 
> Any feedback woudl be appreciated.


It works just fine; that's what I used. Just make sure to run it as Administrator.


----------



## Spharticus

lol.

Thanks to this informative (albeit freakin long) thread my HDT is now alive again thru the miracle of technology.

I used InstantCake (not without problems, see http://www.dvrupgrade.com/forums/showthread.php?t=676

Now i have 2TB of glorious HD recording space, untainted by suggestions and other mockery. Used the hitachi Deskstar drives and the Antec MX-1 enclosure.

I don't post much but when I get greatness from those geeks that went before me, always like to give a shout and thanks for your experimentation so it's easier for the rest of the little people.

Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

Saaaayyyy...who you callin' a "geek" pal?  

Enjoy!


----------



## tivoknucklehead

richsadams said:


> Sorry to hear about your loss. How old was it? A majority of posts indicate that the 500GB WD My DVR Expanders are lasting about 12 to 18 months. The good news (so far) is that the track record for the 1TB models seems to be much better. TIA.


I got it when they first came out, I guess about 2 years ago. No biggie, the 1 TB is better anyway


----------



## Marconi

richsadams said:


> Saaaayyyy...who you callin' a "geek" pal?


Wear your Geekiness proudly. It's nerdiness which is to be avoided.


----------



## richsadams

Marconi said:


> Wear your Geekiness proudly. It's nerdiness which is to be avoided.


So you're saying that owning an original pair of Spock ears isn't fashionable any more?


----------



## jjberger2134

:up::up::up:_*Upgrade Success!!*_:up::up::up: Proud owner of a TiVoHD with the Hitachi 1TB drive installed and 157 hours of HD capacity!!

Glad all of my preparation paid off. I was well prepared and encountered no glitches during the upgrade process. I probably spent several hours reading, thinking and preparing to do the upgrade (I know, I tend to over think things) and about 1 1/2 hours to actually do the upgrade (including transferring the recordings).

A huge thanks to bdktv, richsadams, everyone who put together WinMFS and everyone else who answered my preliminary upgrade questions.


----------



## seanmccord

Last year, I bought a used TivoHD from the original owner, and now am trying to expand storage with an *official* WD 1TB "My DVR Expander". The TivoHD will recognize that a drive has been attached and offer to configure it for use, I will go through the steps on the screen, but upon reboot the drive is not mounted and my TivoHD will ask me to start all over again. I have tried this many, many times since the weekend, but the results are always the same. I tried replacing the cable with a new eSATA, but that hasn't fixed a thing.

After reading this thread, I believe my problem may be that the previous owner of the TivoHD upgraded the drive, and that the solution is to "marry" the two drives on a PC and run WinMFS. That will be a problem for me since, a) I no longer own a desktop PC; and b) I would have to break open the WD "My DVR Expander" in order to attach it to the PC (thus, I assume, breaking any warranty).

Does anyone here have any other suggestions? Why is it that upgrading the original drive disallows just plugging in an external drive? As I said, the TivoHD recognizes that an external drive has been attached, it runs through the process, but the drive never mounts. Is there anything else I can do that doesn't require borrowing a desktop PC and breaking open the WD?


----------



## richsadams

jjberger2134 said:


> :up::up::up:_*Upgrade Success!!*_:up::up::up: Proud owner of a TiVoHD with the Hitachi 1TB drive installed and 157 hours of HD capacity!!


Sah-weet! Congrats and enjoy!


----------



## richsadams

seanmccord said:


> Is there anything else I can do that doesn't require borrowing a desktop PC and breaking open the WD?


Welcome to the forum, sorry to hear about your frustrating experience. Before going down any particular path, please check your TiVo's System Information and post how many hours are listed under Recording Capacity. That will better determine what you're up against. TIA!


----------



## jlib

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Wow. I had no idea that A/V drives are sophisticated enough to provide the capability to dynamically change their recovery strategy. Too bad TiVo doesn't take advantage of that.


Considering how many years the standard has been around you'd think they would. I really do not know if the newest TiVo models do. Here's some light reading  for anyone interested in the subject: See Section 4.17 Streaming Feature Set of the AT Attachment with Packet Interface - 7 Volume 1 - Register Delivered Command Set, Logical Register Set (ATA/ATAPI-7 V1) document.


----------



## richsadams

jlib said:


> Here's some light reading  for anyone interested in the subject: See Section 4.17 Streaming Feature Set of the AT Attachment with Packet Interface - 7 Volume 1 - Register Delivered Command Set, Logical Register Set (ATA/ATAPI-7 V1) document.


----------



## seanmccord

richsadams said:


> Welcome to the forum, sorry to hear about your frustrating experience. Before going down any particular path, please check your TiVo's System Information and post how many hours are listed under Recording Capacity. That will better determine what you're up against. TIA!


Thanks, Rich. I have heard back from the previous owner and confirmed that he upgraded to a 750GB drive before I purchased it from him. My current recording capacity is listed as "Variable, up to 106 HD hours, or 924 SD hours".


----------



## Keen

seanmccord said:


> Is there anything else I can do that doesn't require borrowing a desktop PC and breaking open the WD?


If you can find a desktop PC that has an eSATA port, I think you can use that to hook up the MyDVR Expander without breaking it open. I wish you luck.


----------



## cr33p

1tb WD10EARS on sale 69.99 shipped at newegg right now

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136490&Tpk=wd10ears

Use promo mom1235


----------



## richsadams

cr33p said:


> 1tb WD10EARS on sale 69.99 shipped at newegg right now
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136490&Tpk=wd10ears
> 
> Use promo mom1235


Limit 5 per customer though.  

Nice find! :up:


----------



## cr33p

richsadams said:


> Limit 5 per customer though.
> 
> Nice find! :up:


Yah, and coupon only covers 1 drive GRRRRRR, that one made me a lil mad, I even talked with suppt to find that out.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

richsadams said:


> It'll work fine. WD GP drives are very quiet out of the box and the EVDS is an A/V dedicated drive (24 dBA - 25 dBA) so as rxrepli mentioned, you shouldn't need to make any AAM adjustments.


Quick question along these lines. I installed one of these EVDS drives with TiVo software, and allowed it to update before discovering this problem.

I've just run "wdidle3.exe /d" on it and it reported the feature is disabled, so I think I'm good there.

I just want to confirm that there's no need to reinstall the TiVo software. If I boot it up it should work fine now, right?

(More accurately, if I ship it out to my brother without confirming the install in my own series 3, will it work in his unit again only better now that this "feature" is gond?)


----------



## richsadams

ThreeSoFar said:


> Quick question along these lines. I installed one of these EVDS drives with TiVo software, and allowed it to update before discovering this problem.
> 
> I've just run "wdidle3.exe /d" on it and it reported the feature is disabled, so I think I'm good there.
> 
> I just want to confirm that there's no need to reinstall the TiVo software. If I boot it up it should work fine now, right?
> 
> (More accurately, if I ship it out to my brother without confirming the install in my own series 3, will it work in his unit again only better now that this "feature" is gond?)


Interesting that it shows the Intellipark feature being disabled. Are you still able to give us the manufacture date? Just curious if this is just for the EVDS series or if WD is changing its manufacturing process again.

To answer your question, wdidle3.exe doesn't affect anything else on the hard drive.

With regard to the drive, it sounds like you want to ship the drive (only) to your brother and have him install it in his TiVo? First they both have to be the same model (not a Series3 and a TiVo HD for instance)...it sounds like they are both Series3's? If you used your TiVo's hard drive to image the new drive and it's subsequently installed in a different TiVo it will cause a hardware error. IIRC you should be able to install it in your TiVo, go into Settings and run Clear and Delete Everything. I believe that will allow it to be installed in your brother's TiVo.

Hope that helps!


----------



## ThreeSoFar

richsadams said:


> Interesting that it shows the Intellipark feature being disabled. Are you still able to give us the manufacture date? Just curious if this is just for the EVDS series or if WD is changing its manufacturing process again.
> 
> [other stuff deleted]
> 
> Hope that helps!


It does, thanks.

Sticker says 03 MAR 2010. Anything else useful on it before I send it to him?

Right, I understand about the CADE.

I'm running v. 1.0.3 of wdidle3.

The serial number starts with WD-WCAV5927xxxx, if that helps.

Model WDC WD10EVDS-63U8B0 per the wdidle3.exe utility.


----------



## richsadams

ThreeSoFar said:


> It does, thanks.
> 
> Sticker says 03 MAR 2010. Anything else useful on it before I send it to him?
> 
> Right, I understand about the CADE.
> 
> I'm running v. 1.0.3 of wdidle3.
> 
> The serial number starts with WD-WCAV5927xxxx, if that helps.
> 
> Model WDC WD10EVDS-63U8B0 per the wdidle3.exe utility.


All good info...thanks very much! :up:


----------



## ThreeSoFar

richsadams said:


> With regard to the drive, it sounds like you want to ship the drive (only) to your brother and have him install it in his TiVo? First they both have to be the same model (not a Series3 and a TiVo HD for instance)...it sounds like they are both Series3's? If you used your TiVo's hard drive to image the new drive and it's subsequently installed in a different TiVo it will cause a hardware error. IIRC you should be able to install it in your TiVo, go into Settings and run Clear and Delete Everything. I believe that will allow it to be installed in your brother's TiVo.
> 
> Hope that helps!


And for the record, he can install it, get the hardware error, and do the CADE on that end.


----------



## alyssa

seanmccord said:


> Thanks, Rich. I have heard back from the previous owner and confirmed that he upgraded to a 750GB drive before I purchased it from him. My current recording capacity is listed as "Variable, up to 106 HD hours, or 924 SD hours".


Are you a mac guy? got any friends with a newer pc? 
Can you return the MYDVR and get a 1TD HD & enclosure? 
If so and you've got a friend with a pc (with a eSATA port) then you can take the upgraded 750HD & the new 1TB over to their computer & do the upgrade.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

seanmccord said:


> Last year, I bought a used TivoHD from the original owner, and now am trying to expand storage with an *official* WD 1TB "My DVR Expander". The TivoHD will recognize that a drive has been attached and offer to configure it for use, I will go through the steps on the screen, but upon reboot the drive is not mounted and my TivoHD will ask me to start all over again. I have tried this many, many times since the weekend, but the results are always the same. I tried replacing the cable with a new eSATA, but that hasn't fixed a thing.
> 
> After reading this thread, I believe my problem may be that the previous owner of the TivoHD upgraded the drive, and that the solution is to "marry" the two drives on a PC and run WinMFS. That will be a problem for me since, a) I no longer own a desktop PC; and b) I would have to break open the WD "My DVR Expander" in order to attach it to the PC (thus, I assume, breaking any warranty).
> 
> Does anyone here have any other suggestions? Why is it that upgrading the original drive disallows just plugging in an external drive? As I said, the TivoHD recognizes that an external drive has been attached, it runs through the process, but the drive never mounts. Is there anything else I can do that doesn't require borrowing a desktop PC and breaking open the WD?





alyssa said:


> Are you a mac guy? got any friends with a newer pc?
> Can you return the MYDVR and get a 1TD HD & enclosure?
> If so and you've got a friend with a pc (with a eSATA port) then you can take the upgraded 750HD & the new 1TB over to their computer & do the upgrade.


Another option is jut replace the 750G with a larger drive. Not as big an upgrade. Per this faq, you can go to 1.26T, so 66% bigger than what you have.

Still poses the problem of needing a PC with SATA. (See my next post, in case you're in my area.)


----------



## reubanks

You can "Broflovski".:up:


----------



## ThreeSoFar

reubanks said:


> You can "Broflovski".:up:


This mean anything to anyone? Sure, the South Park character. But otherwise, a complete _non sequitur_, no?


----------



## richsadams

ThreeSoFar said:


> This mean anything to anyone? Sure, the South Park character. But otherwise, a complete _non sequitur_, no?


It's a reference to this post by a TCF member going by that name...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7823170#post7823170

You'd still require a PC to upgrade, but it's possible to use the hack to get the full space out of a 1.5TB or 2TB hard drive.


----------



## alyssa

ThreeSoFar said:


> Another option is jut replace the 750G with a larger drive. Not as big an upgrade. Per this faq, you can go to 1.26T, so 66% bigger than what you have.


I was thinking it'd be quicker at the friends house, to marry the two HD's than transferring all his shows to a new internal. Of course if there's beer & sports involved then time isn't so much the issue.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

alyssa said:


> I was thinking it'd be quicker at the friends house, to marry the two HD's than transferring all his shows to a new internal. Of course if there's beer & sports involved then time isn't so much the issue.


Depends on the friend's hardware. My Pentium II took 20 hours to do a backup|restore (recently upgraded to a Pentium III....I know, I'm a cheapskate).


----------



## jlib

cr33p said:


> Yah, and [NewEgg] coupon only covers 1 drive GRRRRRR...


 That is odd. In the past, I have been able to use NewEgg codes for the maximum allowed (although I have gotten "already used" errors if I subsequently try to use it again.) I just got several Samsung 2TB drives last week from them using one code ($120 each!). I hope you can get that resolved.


----------



## alyssa

ThreeSoFar said:


> Depends on the friend's hardware. My Pentium II took 20 hours to do a backup|restore (recently upgraded to a Pentium III....I know, I'm a cheapskate).


Yikes  PIII?
There's some interesting budget builds at tom's hardware;
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum-31.html
Warning tho, building new rigs is as addictive as upgrading tivos.


----------



## MPSAN

alyssa said:


> Yikes  PIII?
> There's some interesting budget builds at tom's hardware;
> http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum-31.html
> Warning tho, building new rigs is as addictive as upgrading tivos.


...but costs way more...as in an overclocked E8400/P5Q Pro for my wife!


----------



## jppowers

richsadams said:


> Hi Joe and welcome to the forum. Which image are you looking for?


Hi Rich

I was trying to obtain the Mr. Broflovski's image for drives greater than 1G. I am supposed to PM him, but can not as I have not posted 5x yet.( but here is 2 I guess  )

Joe P


----------



## richsadams

jppowers said:


> Hi Rich
> 
> I was trying to obtain the Mr. Broflovski's image for drives greater than 1G. I am supposed to PM him, but can not as I have not posted 5x yet.( but here is 2 I guess  )
> 
> Joe P


Yes, that's one of the rules to thwart spammers...used to be 10 IIRC. Anyway, find a couple of more things to discuss and you should be good to go.


----------



## jppowers

richsadams said:


> Yes, that's one of the rules to thwart spammers...used to be 10 IIRC. Anyway, find a couple of more things to discuss and you should be good to go.


OK. Thanks

Joe P


----------



## jppowers

ThreeSoFar said:


> Quick question along these lines. I installed one of these EVDS drives with TiVo software, and allowed it to update before discovering this problem.
> 
> I've just run "wdidle3.exe /d" on it and it reported the feature is disabled, so I think I'm good there.
> 
> I just want to confirm that there's no need to reinstall the TiVo software. If I boot it up it should work fine now, right?
> 
> (More accurately, if I ship it out to my brother without confirming the install in my own series 3, will it work in his unit again only better now that this "feature" is gond?)


Did you buy the drive preloaded w/ software then??

Joe P


----------



## jppowers

Mr. Broflovski said:


> I have created an image that is useable with WinMFS and is not subject to these limitations, and will work with hard drives up to 2.0TB in size. Any interested parties with a TivoHD and hard drive > 1TB are welcome to PM me.


Any 2 GB drive suggestions from anyone?

Joe Powers


----------



## dswallow

jppowers said:


> Any 2 GB drive suggestions from anyone?


They don't make them that small anymore.


----------



## shrike4242

richsadams said:


> Limit 5 per customer though.
> 
> Nice find! :up:


The reviews of it on Newegg.com aren't that encouraging:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16822136490

Also, as I see above, I have to boot the drive off of a bootable CD to deal with the idle issue.

Since it looks like my DVR Expander seems to have killed off my internal drive in one of the Tivo HDs I have and now I'm stuck with looking for a plan B solution. I'm trying to find drive options that would work as a 1TB replacement for the internal drive.

Any reason why I should pick the GP-AV right here:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136496 (WD10EVDS)

Over this drive here:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136490 (WD10EARS)

The WD10EVCS is showing as discontinued, so I'm assuming the EVDS replaced it and the FAQ hasn't been updated yet.


----------



## cr33p

Any ideas if anyone is working on a 648250 image that can expand to a >1tb drive?


----------



## richsadams

shrike4242 said:


> The reviews of it on Newegg.com aren't that encouraging:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16822136490


It looks like the reviewers that were disapointed with the drive's performance were using them in a "normal" computer environment. Although variable, these are basically 5400RPM drives which are perfectly fine in TiVo. There are probably hundreds of them being used by TCF members with very positive feedback so I wouldn't hesitate to use one.



shrike4242 said:


> Also, as I see above, I have to boot the drive off of a bootable CD to deal with the idle issue.


 True, although IIRC someone created a useable image on a USB thumb drive.



shrike4242 said:


> Since it looks like my DVR Expander seems to have killed off my internal drive in one of the Tivo HDs I have and now I'm stuck with looking for a plan B solution. I'm trying to find drive options that would work as a 1TB replacement for the internal drive.
> 
> Any reason why I should pick the GP-AV right here:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136496 (WD10EVDS)


The WD10EVDS is a dedicated A/V drive so there would be no need to adjust the AAM (it's already very quiet). There are a number of folks using them here...it would be just fine. :up:


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

shrike4242 said:


> Since it looks like my DVR Expander seems to have killed off my internal drive in one of the Tivo HDs I have and now I'm stuck with looking for a plan B solution. I'm trying to find drive options that would work as a 1TB replacement for the internal drive.


It's unlikely that a bad expander could somehow cause physical damage to your internal drive. Most likely it just needs to be imaged with working software.

But I think you're much better off going with a larger capacity internal replacement, so it's perhaps a moot point.


----------



## shrike4242

richsadams said:


> The WD10EVDS is a dedicated A/V drive so there would be no need to adjust the AAM (it's already very quiet). There are a number of folks using them here...it would be just fine. :up:


I think I'll run with that option as the drive for the replacement, since I'm wary of the internal drive at the moment, even though it passed the KS 54 overnight SMART tests.



Phantom Gremlin said:


> It's unlikely that a bad expander could somehow cause physical damage to your internal drive. Most likely it just needs to be imaged with working software.
> 
> But I think you're much better off going with a larger capacity internal replacement, so it's perhaps a moot point.


I haven't reconnected the DVR Expander, since I want to test it with Lifeguard Tools before I decide on what to do with it, though I wouldn't expect the entire Now Playing List to disappear when I divorced the DVR Expander from the Tivo.

The odd thing is that it kept trying to install the system update for 11.0g every time I rebooted, and I guess it finally finished the job, since the Tivo HD appears to be working OK at the moment. It started recording last night, so I'm surprised it's in that state at the moment, though I still don't trust the drive, which is why I'm working towards the replacement. I'll still test the drive again with KS 57 or KS 58 to make sure it's valid, and if so, I'll use that to expand out to the new drive. If not, then I'll just get an InstantCake ISO image from DVRUpgrade.com.


----------



## SoFlaGuy

Just got an email from CompUSA that they have the WD20EARS for $109 after rebate, has anyone used this with the Brovfloski image on a Series 3? (TCD648250b)


----------



## cr33p

SoFlaGuy said:


> Just got an email from CompUSA that they have the WD20EARS for $109 after rebate, has anyone used this with the Brovfloski image on a Series 3? (TCD648250b)


That image is only for a 652160, not a 648250, there was never a 1tb version of that model, so I think we wont see a hybrid image like that?


----------



## SoFlaGuy

cr33p said:


> That image is only for a 652160, not a 648250, there was never a 1tb version of that model, so I think we wont see a hybrid image like that?


I thought that too, but in post 5477, another poster stated:



tincan said:


> Special thanks to Mr. Broflovski for his >1TB TiVo HD image. Last night I used it to upgrade a used THD with a 2TB Hitachi Deskstar (HD32000IDK7/7K / HDS722020ALA330). The box now reports 318/2777 hours


The post clearly states he upgraded a used THD, which can only be a TCD648250B.


----------



## cr33p

SoFlaGuy said:


> I thought that too, but in post 5477, another poster stated:
> 
> The post clearly states he upgraded a used THD, which can only be a TCD648250B.


Yeah, and a THD is a tcd652160 unit, not a series 3 tcd648250 unit. You want to try to use it in a older series 3 unit right? If so I dont believe it will work, I have the image myself and have tested it on my TivoHD 652160 unit and it works perfectly


----------



## SoFlaGuy

cr33p said:


> Yeah, and a THD is a tcd652160 unit, not a series 3 tcd648250 unit. You want to try to use it in a older series 3 unit right? If so I dont believe it will work, I have the image myself and have tested it on my TivoHD 652160 unit and it works perfectly


Yep, I want to upgrade the THX (TCD648250) and not my HD, which was upgraded to a 1TB already.

I sent a PM to the other poster to clarify which unit he meant.


----------



## cr33p

Well you could always try


----------



## T1V0

SoFlaGuy said:


> I thought that too, but in post 5477, another poster stated:
> 
> The post clearly states he upgraded a used THD, which can only be a TCD648250B.


nope

648 = original S3
652 = tivohd
658 = tivohdxl


----------



## cr33p

From my understanding this new image is a mix between a 652 image and a 658 image, the 658 had a 1tb from the factory this is why it can be upgraded to a 2tb, the older s3 only had a 250, so it can only be upgraded to a 1.25 tb, you could still use a 1.5 drive but cant use all the space


----------



## jppowers

dswallow said:


> They don't make them that small anymore.


Oh Oh, that should read 2TB

JP


----------



## richsadams

shrike4242 said:


> ...though I wouldn't expect the entire Now Playing List to disappear when I divorced the DVR Expander from the Tivo.


 Unfortunately anything recorded after you first connected your eSATA drive is lost once it's been divorced. The reason being that whenever an eSATA drive is connected to TiVo (first time or fifth) it's automatically formatted and all of the existing data is wiped.



shrike4242 said:


> The odd thing is that it kept trying to install the system update for 11.0g every time I rebooted, and I guess it finally finished the job, since the Tivo HD appears to be working OK at the moment. It started recording last night, so I'm surprised it's in that state at the moment, though I still don't trust the drive, which is why I'm working towards the replacement. I'll still test the drive again with KS 57 or KS 58 to make sure it's valid, and if so, I'll use that to expand out to the new drive. If not, then I'll just get an InstantCake ISO image from DVRUpgrade.com.


That sounds more like an image data corruption problem. It's possible that when v11.0g was downloaded that there was a checksum error. That can be caused by any number of things from their network to your network to bad sectors on your hard drive, it's hard to say. TiVo will continue to download and try to install an update until it's fully and correctly installed. If it's booting up okay now it sounds like it has a stable OS boot partition so you should be safe using it to image a new drive.

KS57 and/or 58 won't actually "tell you" anything. They simply attempt to correct data corruption and if needed isolate bad sectors on the hard drive. Only KS54 is capable of returning some minor go/no go test results and even it isn't infallible.

I'd go with using your existing drive to image a new one and if for some reason that doesn't work out you can always use Instant Cake. The downside is that IC will basically make your TiVo "new" so you'd need to get your cable card paired again and such.

In any case, happy upgrading and let us know how it goes!


----------



## ThreeSoFar

jppowers said:


> Did you buy the drive preloaded w/ software then??
> 
> Joe P


No, it's a drive I built from my own S3 drive/backup.


----------



## shrike4242

richsadams said:


> Unfortunately anything recorded after you first connected your eSATA drive is lost once it's been divorced. The reason being that whenever an eSATA drive is connected to TiVo (first time or fifth) it's automatically formatted and all of the existing data is wiped.


I always thought that content recorded before the DVR Expander was connected would still remain, though I guess not.  Oh well.



richsadams said:


> That sounds more like an image data corruption problem. It's possible that when v11.0g was downloaded that there was a checksum error. That can be caused by any number of things from their network to your network to bad sectors on your hard drive, it's hard to say. TiVo will continue to download and try to install an update until it's fully and correctly installed. If it's booting up okay now it sounds like it has a stable OS boot partition so you should be safe using it to image a new drive.
> 
> KS57 and/or 58 won't actually "tell you" anything. They simply attempt to correct data corruption and if needed isolate bad sectors on the hard drive. Only KS54 is capable of returning some minor go/no go test results and even it isn't infallible.
> 
> I'd go with using your existing drive to image a new one and if for some reason that doesn't work out you can always use Instant Cake. The downside is that IC will basically make your TiVo "new" so you'd need to get your cable card paired again and such.
> 
> In any case, happy upgrading and let us know how it goes!


See, that's what concerns me, that if this was nothing more than a fracked up system update, I'm going to be more than a little irritated with the situation. Especially since I divorced the DVR Expander, thinking it was dead/dying and causing issues with the internal drive as well.

After I ran the KS57 on the drive pairing the first time, it did lose some shows off of the Now Playing List, so I'm thinking that *something* wasn't right and the KS57 seemed to fix it.

I believe the download did come down OK, since the Tivo didn't seem to do anything about trying to re-download it, though I think that the root partition was screwed up and at some point in the mess when this happened, I did a KS52 to try and force the reinstall to the alternate root partition to try and recover from it.

The update did seem to work, repeatedly, though it kept trying to do the install when it did reboot repeatedly.

I think that if I run another KS57 on the drive, having tested OK with the overnight SMART test from the KS54, I think that you're right and the drive appears to be OK.

I'll stick the DVR expander on my HTPC in the basement, since it has an eSATA port and see what Lifeguard Tools says about the drive. If it reports it as bad, it'll get tossed. If it's good, then I can only wonder about it. 

I'm still toying with the drive upgrade idea, mainly to get rid of the DVR Expander, though I'd hate to toss it if it still is working according to WD.


----------



## richsadams

shrike4242 said:


> I always thought that content recorded before the DVR Expander was connected would still remain, though I guess not.  Oh well.


 Yes that is correct, anything recorded before the expansion drive was attached will remain intact. That's why I said "...anything recorded _after_ you first connected your eSATA drive is lost..."



shrike4242 said:


> The update did seem to work, repeatedly, though it kept trying to do the install when it did reboot repeatedly.


 Actually if it tried to install the update repeatedly after rebooting (repeatedly) that probably means that it didn't work...until it booted up normally that is.



shrike4242 said:


> I'll stick the DVR expander on my HTPC in the basement, since it has an eSATA port and see what Lifeguard Tools says about the drive. If it reports it as bad, it'll get tossed. If it's good, then I can only wonder about it.


 Note that the drive itself may be fine, it may be the enclosure that's the problem. Others have found that the drive worked with a PC, but would no longer work with TiVo.

Let us know what you end up doing and how it goes.


----------



## reubanks

http://www.frys.com/product/5947254?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

Randy


----------



## richsadams

reubanks said:


> http://www.frys.com/product/5947254?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
> 
> Randy


Excellent find! :up:


----------



## Boso_zuku

Looks like Newegg has the same thing with for 119 shipped with promo code (HITACHI2TB):
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145276
I think the Fry's deal is in-store only.

Hard drive question. Just to be clear here.. the intellipark issue for newer WD drives is no longer an issue if you use the widdle software to disable it, right? Just want to confirm that pretty much any WD drive can now be used? 
How about the WD20EARS with the 64mb buffer?


----------



## yukit

Boso_zuku said:


> Hard drive question. Just to be clear here.. the intellipark issue for newer WD drives is no longer an issue if you use the widdle software to disable it, right? Just want to confirm that pretty much any WD drive can now be used?
> How about the WD20EARS with the 64mb buffer?


Probably not all models, but I believe WD20EARS works fine with the widdle fix. I just received a WD20EARS from Newegg. I will find out for myself 

I think I will pickup the Hitachi drive as a backup. I can always use the WD20EARS in my NAS if it doesn't work for any reason.


----------



## reubanks

Boso_zuku said:


> Looks like Newegg has the same thing with for 119 shipped with promo code (HITACHI2TB):
> http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145276
> I think the Fry's deal is in-store only.
> 
> Hard drive question. Just to be clear here.. the intellipark issue for newer WD drives is no longer an issue if you use the widdle software to disable it, right? Just want to confirm that pretty much any WD drive can now be used?
> How about the WD20EARS with the 64mb buffer?


Nope, Fry's website may be out of stock, but they may have more before the sale ends. I picked up 2 at one of the local stores and they had plenty.

Randy


----------



## bhiga

I agree with richsadams - enclosures can sometimes be problematic.

Also keep in mind that DLG has a habit of only telling you a drive is bad if it has *un*recoverable errors, or if all spare sectors have been used.

In other words, it doesn't necessarily tell you if the drive is *going* bad, and only if it's already *gone* bad. So if the drive is developing bad sectors, the drive may still be recovering from them, but the drive performance goes splat and it doesn't work well in AV environments.

I've seen this type of behavior with drives used for video editing - and soon the drive goes "completely" bad and DLG finally tells you the drive is bad.

So either the enclosure is finicky, or the drive might be on the way out, but not out the door/window yet.


----------



## bhiga

Thanks to all for the great info in this thread!

I just upgraded my Series3 stock drive to a WD10EVDS drive and the unit was stuck on "Powering up..." screen with all lights on. After more reading I found this thread and learned IntelliPark was the likely culprit. So off I went to get WDIDLE3 to disable IntelliPark.

However... I found the v1.00 and v1.03 WDIdle3 utilities would not disable Idle3, they just set it to 6300 millisecond (v1.00) or 62 minutes (v1.03). Only the v1.05 WDIDLE3 utility would properly disable Idle3 on my drive (specs below).

So it appears that the WDIDLE3 utility version *does matter*.

Original drive:
WD2500BS-55RPB1
Date: 25 AUG 2006

Replacement drive:
WD10EVDS-63U8B0
Date: 21 APR 2010

I actually have two drives with the same model number and manufacture date, so I verified the results below with both drives just to be sure. In 10 hours the other drive is going into my other TiVo. 

*Report from fresh (unaltered) drive (WDIDLE3 /R):*
Report v1.00: Idle3 Timer is enabled and set to 8000 milliseconds.
Report v1.03: Idle3 Timer is enabled and set to 8.000 seconds.
Report v1.05: Idle3 Timer is enabled and set to 8.000 seconds.

*v1.00 Results from WDIDLE3 /D*
WDIDLE3 /D: Idle3 Timer is enabled and set to 6300 milliseconds.
Report v1.00: Idle3 Timer is enabled and set to 6300 milliseconds.
Report v1.03: Idle3 Timer is enabled and set to 6.300 seconds.
Report v1.05: Idle3 Timer is enabled and set to 6.300 seconds.

*v1.03 Results from WDIDLE3 /D*
WDIDLE3 /D: Idle3 Timer is enabled and set to 3720 seconds (62.0 minutes).
Report v1.00: Idle3 Timer is enabled and set to 25200 milliseconds.
Report v1.03: Idle3 Timer is enabled and set to 3720 seconds (62.0 minutes).
Report v1.05: Idle3 Timer is enabled and set to 3720 seconds (62.0 minutes).

*v1.05 Results from WDIDLE3 /D*
WDIDLE3 /D: Idle3 Timer is disabled.
Report v1.00: Idle3 Timer is disabled.
Report v1.03: Idle3 Timer is disabled.
Report v1.05: Idle3 Timer is disabled.

So it appears, at least in my case that the v1.05 WDIDLE3 utility is the only one that *really* disabled Idle3 on my drive. And once Idle3 Timer was disabled, my Series3 booted up fine. Soft reboot works fine too.

I found the v1.05 WDIDLE3 utility in this forum thread, or direct download from WD's site.

Sorry for the back-to-back posts but I didn't have enough posts to post links until now.


----------



## richsadams

bhiga said:


> I agree with richsadams...


Whoa! You're treading on very thin ice there my friend. 



bhiga said:


> I just upgraded my Series3 stock drive to a WD10EVDS drive <snip>


Congrats on your "new" and soon to be "new" TiVo's! It's unlikely that the Intellipark feature caused your TiVo to not fully boot up. The only time the Intellipark feature becomes apparent is during a soft reboot/menu restart...TiVo won't get past the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen. The drives that have that feature will always boot up during a hard reboot...pulling the plug and plugging it back in. Chances are your TiVo simply didn't boot up the first time for some other reason. That happens even with stock hard drives now and then.

FWIW I haven't upgraded since WD came up with the Intellipark "feature", however others have run into the same issue where Intellipark couldn't be fully disabled. IIRC simply extending the seconds to the max on the timer accomplished the same goal, enabling a soft reboot.

In any case, glad things are good and enjoy!


----------



## reubanks

richsadams said:


> FWIW I haven't upgraded since WD came up with the Intellipark "feature",


For SHAME! I see you have a THD with only 1TB on your list...

Randy


----------



## richsadams

reubanks said:


> For SHAME! I see you have a THD with only 1TB on your list...
> 
> Randy


Yeah, I upgraded the THD w/1TB but that was prior to Intellipark (and the advent of 2TB drives, affordable ones at least)...and it's since been adopted by a fellow TCF member. I just keep it in the list for old time's sake. It was replaced by a new Permiere XL (already 1TB). If/when Spike tweaks winMFS to upgrade Premieres to 2TB's I might be tempted.


----------



## dprichter

I am planning on upgrading my internal original drive on my Series 3 with the following equipment.

HITACHI Deskstar HD31000 IDK/7K (0S00163) 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive

StarTech SATADOCK22UE eSATA USB to SATA External HDD Dock for Dual 2.5 or 3.5in Hard Drive 

Just want to make sure this is the right equipment for the upgrade?

I would like to thank everyone in advance for the great information I have been reading here in conjunction with this upgrade.


----------



## rooobosmith

Frys has the Hitachi HD31000 IDk/7k 1TB on sale today for $60


----------



## rooobosmith

I am trying to Mfscopy a Seagate 1TB (supersized) to a new Hitachi 1TB with WinMfs (latest), but it appears to be stuck copying Partition 10 for over an hour. 

Should this work? Take a long time? 

Thanks.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

rooobosmith said:


> I am trying to Mfscopy a Seagate 1TB (supersized) to a new Hitachi 1TB with WinMfs (latest), but it appears to be stuck copying Partition 10 for over an hour.
> 
> Should this work? Take a long time?
> 
> Thanks.


Can take a VERY long time. Let it go.

What processor/speed PC you using?

ETA: I'm assuming "mfscopy" is akin to "backup | restore"?


----------



## richsadams

dprichter said:


> I am planning on upgrading my internal original drive on my Series 3 with the following equipment.
> 
> HITACHI Deskstar HD31000 IDK/7K (0S00163) 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
> 
> StarTech SATADOCK22UE eSATA USB to SATA External HDD Dock for Dual 2.5 or 3.5in Hard Drive
> 
> Just want to make sure this is the right equipment for the upgrade?


All good choices and should serve you well.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## yukit

reubanks said:


> Nope, Fry's website may be out of stock, but they may have more before the sale ends. I picked up 2 at one of the local stores and they had plenty.
> Randy


By around Sun noon, the 2 TB drive was out of stock from all local stores in the bay area


----------



## cr33p

Funny thing I wanted to share, just recently got a new WD10EARS build date of Jan 2010, loaded image to 648250 S3 unit, huing on welcome powering up, never even made it to tivo central, pop in stock drive and it worked, so had to disable intellipark right off the bat to even get it to boot for the first time. But now is well. Currently Xferring all my shows of my 1.5TB TiVoHD to my older S3, then the big daddy is going to be sold, just installed the new Premiere tonight as well, man I cant wait for a larger drive, I dont know what I will do with ONLY 46 Hrs of HD programming.


----------



## rooobosmith

ThreeSoFar said:


> Can take a VERY long time. Let it go.
> 
> What processor/speed PC you using?
> 
> ETA: I'm assuming "mfscopy" is akin to "backup | restore"?


2.33 GHz Q8200.

I let it go for 3 hours with no progress.

Copied the original 160GB HD in ~30 min.

Mfscopy is from the tools menu on WinMfs


----------



## 241705

I upgraded the drive in my TivoHD over the weekend with a 1TB HD31000 that I got on-sale. It went flawlessly - everything exactly as described. Thank you to everyone who contributed to the excellent upgrade instructions.


----------



## Alvysyngr

I ordered a Series 3 off eBay (TCD652160) and want to prep to install a 1tb internal drive. Which of these two are better? Both free shipping Both Hitachi

7K1000.c for $75
or
HD31000 for $79


----------



## reubanks

yukit said:


> By around Sun noon, the 2 TB drive was out of stock from all local stores in the bay area


Sacramento has them. Feel like taking a short drive? 

6 of the 9 SoCal stores still shows stock, including the store I got mine from. Bummer about the bay area.

Randy


----------



## bhiga

richsadams said:


> Congrats on your "new" and soon to be "new" TiVo's! It's unlikely that the Intellipark feature caused your TiVo to not fully boot up. The only time the Intellipark feature becomes apparent is during a soft reboot/menu restart...TiVo won't get past the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen.


Yeah, strange... I tried it 3 times, even letting it sit for an hour and no dice. After disabling Intellipark, it came up right away. Don't know. Maybe it was just a fluke or WD changed something, either way, I'm happy they're working.


----------



## richsadams

bhiga said:


> Yeah, strange... I tried it 3 times, even letting it sit for an hour and no dice. After disabling Intellipark, it came up right away. Don't know. Maybe it was just a fluke or WD changed something, either way, I'm happy they're working.


Quite possible...nothing that WD does surprises me anymore. If they did change something I'm sure we'll hear from others.

Enjoy!


----------



## Marconi

bhiga said:


> I found the v1.05 WDIDLE3 utility in this forum thread, or direct download from WD's site.


Does anyone know of a WDIdle version for Mac/Linux? Anyone have a link?


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Marconi said:


> Does anyone know of a WDIdle version for Mac/Linux? Anyone have a link?


There isn't one. I dug out an old Dos 6.22 boot floppy and put it on there, worked fine.


----------



## reubanks

richsadams said:


> Excellent find! :up:


I just tried to run HDDSCAN on this Hitachi HD32000 IDK/7K and the acoustic managment was greyed out saying it was "Not Supported". I downloaded the Hitachi CD image and burned/booted. It also says that I can't adjust the acoustic management.

AARRGGHH!!! <thud> I looked around the Hitachi site and don't see any firmware downloads so I can download to and older version, but I'll look again.


----------



## Boso_zuku

Edit. You guys are great- thank you.


----------



## richsadams

reubanks said:


> I just tried to run HDDSCAN on this Hitachi HD32000 IDK/7K and the acoustic managment was greyed out saying it was "Not Supported". I downloaded the Hitachi CD image and burned/booted. It also says that I can't adjust the acoustic management.
> 
> AARRGGHH!!! <thud> I looked around the Hitachi site and don't see any firmware downloads so I can download to and older version, but I'll look again.


Have a look in Section II, #32 for the download link to the Hitachi Feature Tool v2.11. IIRC that should work. Or is that the one you tried? Note that the drive needs to be connected via SATA or eSATA not USB...but then you probably knew that.


----------



## reubanks

richsadams said:


> Have a look in Section II, #32 for the download link to the Hitachi Feature Tool v2.11. IIRC that should work. Or is that the one you tried? Note that the drive needs to be connected via SATA or eSATA not USB...but then you probably knew that.


I had used Feature Tool 2.11 per that link and the drive is installed internally to a SATA port. I tried it on 2 different PCs in case it was an issue with the chipset somehow.

I just downloaded the updated Feature Tool 2.15 from the Hitachi site and will try it next. BRB with an update. (gotta reboot)

Randy


----------



## cr33p

I recently installed a Hitachi into my S3 unit with acoustic management turned on max, still to loud IMO, esp compared to the WD drives out of the box.


----------



## reubanks

It looks like FTv2.15 doesn't even have an AAM function! DIMMIT! Did Hitachi farm out their 2TB drives to Seagate!?!

I had refused to buy Hitachi drives for several years because of terrible customer service and warranty issues in the past, but figured I would give them another chance. Silly me, I should have known not to buy any more DeathStar drives.


----------



## richsadams

reubanks said:


> It looks like FTv2.15 doesn't even have an AAM function! DIMMIT! Did Hitachi farm out their 2TB drives to Seagate!?!
> 
> I had refused to buy Hitachi drives for several years because of terrible customer service and warranty issues in the past, but figured I would give them another chance. Silly me, I should have known not to buy any more DeathStar drives.


Hmmmm...that is a new one. I have the same drives in a NAS and they are very quiet, about as quiet as the drive in our TiVo Premiere XL, so I'm not sure how much difference adjusting the AAM would make, but I certainly understand your frustration. Maybe a call to Hitachi?

FWIW the drives I have have been flawless for about 1/2 year now.

Let us know what you come up with.


----------



## rooobosmith

reubanks said:


> I just tried to run HDDSCAN on this Hitachi HD32000 IDK/7K and the acoustic managment was greyed out saying it was "Not Supported". I downloaded the Hitachi CD image and burned/booted. It also says that I can't adjust the acoustic management.
> 
> AARRGGHH!!! <thud> I looked around the Hitachi site and don't see any firmware downloads so I can download to and older version, but I'll look again.


I ran HDDScan on a new HD31000 and it says "Not Supported" too.

Strangely, it says the Seagate Baracuda is supported.

Will try the Hitachi tools, but from what you say, that does not sound promising.

The drive is a little loud.


----------



## JohnNButchNGunny

Mr. Broflovski said:


> I have created an image that is useable with WinMFS and is not subject to these limitations, and will work with hard drives up to 2.0TB in size. Any interested parties with a TivoHD and hard drive > 1TB are welcome to PM me.
> 
> ***EDIT : 5/16***
> 
> I will no longer be offering this image via PM.
> 
> Several community members have a copy at this point, if you are in need of a copy, please make a public request and I'm sure someone will help (please don't threadcrap all over this thread though, there are image begging threads here).


I am very interested in obtaining the image which will support upgrading my Tivo HD to a 2TB drive. I have been unable to find this image, and hope that this request is not categorized as "thread capping". I apologize in advance if this is what I am doing.

Thanks for your help! -- John


----------



## reubanks

I sent an email to Hitachi Support asking about this and about possible firmware downgrade/upgrade/whatever. I really don't have a problem with the noise, but my wife cannot deal with ANY noise when she's trying to get to sleep. (She would probably prefer that I stop breathing, but that's just because of 21 years of marriage...)

I'll update if/when I get a reply from Hitachi.


----------



## reubanks

JohnNButchNGunny said:


> I am very interested in obtaining the image which will support upgrading my Tivo HD to a 2TB drive. I have been unable to find this image, and hope that this request is not categorized as "thread capping". I apologize in advance if this is what I am doing.
> 
> Thanks for your help! -- John


Nah, I think he was talking about adding another to the many and varied "I want a 2TB TivoHD image" threads.

And you forgot the "r" in capping.


----------



## MikeAndrews

Sorry for the repeat FAQ... Just to get the current scoop....

From http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=417410



bkdtv said:


> As per the Official eSATA Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ, internal+external capacity is limited to 2.2 TB (2.2 TiB) on all high-definition TiVos. An external drive is limited to the capacity of the original internal drive +1.0 TiB.
> 
> To use more capacity, you would need a hacked PROM.


I was about to order 1.5TB WD drives for my 1st gen Series 3. I know you can only format 2.2TB as above, but can I get 1.1TB on each of the two drives? I could just get a 1TB drive if the most I can get is 1.2 + 1.0.

In other words is my hottest setup still 2.2TB using the two 1.5 TB drives?

I figure that a lot of that goes toward the noise of advertised capacity vs. formatted binary capacity.


----------



## bowlingblogger

reubanks said:


> I had used Feature Tool 2.11 per that link and the drive is installed internally to a SATA port. I tried it on 2 different PCs in case it was an issue with the chipset somehow.


I don't know how common this is, but I have a motherboard with 5 or so SATA ports and when I connect a hard drive to them, HDTune will only show SMART data, supported features, etc for a couple of the ports. I figure I must have two different SATA controllers and the ports are divided up between them.

I know you tried on two different computers, so I doubt this is your problem, but I just thought I'd throw this out there.


----------



## Keen

I'm confused. According to the FAQ in this thread, the largest single drive that you can make for a non-XL TivoHD is ~1.1TB. What are these 2TB images?


----------



## reubanks

Keen said:


> I'm confused. According to the FAQ in this thread, the largest single drive that you can make for a non-XL TivoHD is ~1.1TB. What are these 2TB images?


Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

One of the members created a hybrid image that may be Tivo HD files on an HDXL partition structure (or something like that...). He offered it to members on an "ask and I'll send you a link" basis, but it seems that he has stopped offering it. Possibly from either pressure from Tivo/Lawyers or maybe he went over his limit for downloads. Reports are that it worked perfectly.

I'd be using it, but it seems I have an issue with a couple of noisy drives I can't get to quiet down. Maybe I need to take the drives back and spring for another WD.

Randy


----------



## Keen

And no one figured out a way to add the method he used to the drive expansion tools that the FAQ uses? That's unfortunate.


----------



## reubanks

The original image couldn't be expanded, but if you do find a copy of the expanded image then you use the standard tools to image a >1TB drive with the file.


----------



## MPSAN

reubanks said:


> or maybe he went over his limit for downloads. Reports are that it worked perfectly.
> 
> Randy


Randy, I just checked the link for the 2GB image and it IS still working. Are you saying that he is not answering his PM any more?


----------



## yukit

reubanks said:


> It looks like FTv2.15 doesn't even have an AAM function! DIMMIT! Did Hitachi farm out their 2TB drives to Seagate!?!
> 
> I had refused to buy Hitachi drives for several years because of terrible customer service and warranty issues in the past, but figured I would give them another chance. Silly me, I should have known not to buy any more DeathStar drives.


I booted an Ubuntu LiveCD, then ran sudo hdparm -M 128 (something like that) for my Hitachi 2TB Deathstar in an HDXL. I believe mfslive CD has hdparm as well as long as you can get your PC to recognize the SATA drive.
YMMV


----------



## reubanks

MPSAN said:


> Randy, I just checked the link for the 2GB image and it IS still working. Are you saying that he is not answering his PM any more?


I dunno, all I know is what was posted. I was just trying to translate...

I'm gonna go over in the corner while listening to my Hitachi drive rattle and sulk for a while.


----------



## JohnNButchNGunny

reubanks said:


> I dunno, all I know is what was posted. I was just trying to translate...
> 
> I'm gonna go over in the corner while listening to my Hitachi drive rattle and sulk for a while.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Broflovski 
I have created an image that is useable with WinMFS and is not subject to these limitations, and will work with hard drives up to 2.0TB in size. Any interested parties with a TivoHD and hard drive > 1TB are welcome to PM me.

***EDIT : 5/16***

I will no longer be offering this image via PM.

Several community members have a copy at this point, if you are in need of a copy, please make a public request and I'm sure someone will help (please don't threadcrap all over this thread though, there are image begging threads here).

I am very interested in obtaining the image which will support upgrading my Tivo HD to a 2TB drive. I have been unable to find this image, and hope that this request is not categorized as "thread capping". I apologize in advance if this is what I am doing.

Thanks for your help! -- John


----------



## MPSAN

John, I guess you are going to have a problem in that you can not get/post PM's before 5 posts.


----------



## donnoh

JohnNButchNGunny said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Mr. Broflovski
> I have created an image that is useable with WinMFS and is not subject to these limitations, and will work with hard drives up to 2.0TB in size. Any interested parties with a TivoHD and hard drive > 1TB are welcome to PM me.
> 
> ***EDIT : 5/16***
> 
> I will no longer be offering this image via PM.
> 
> Several community members have a copy at this point, if you are in need of a copy, please make a public request and I'm sure someone will help (please don't threadcrap all over this thread though, there are image begging threads here).
> 
> I am very interested in obtaining the image which will support upgrading my Tivo HD to a 2TB drive. I have been unable to find this image, and hope that this request is not categorized as "thread capping". I apologize in advance if this is what I am doing.
> 
> Thanks for your help! -- John


Mr. Broflovski asked each person that got his image to not share it and I'm sure everyone will comply with that request.
Since you were late with your request please don't ask a member to betray his trust.
The ebay dude can sell you a similar image pre-loaded on a drive for a reasonable price.


----------



## MPSAN

donnoh said:


> Mr. Broflovski asked each person that got his image to not share it and I'm sure everyone will comply with that request.
> Since you were late with your request please don't ask a member to betray his trust.
> The ebay dude can sell you a similar image pre-loaded on a drive for a reasonable price.


Actually, that is not exactly what was said...

*Feel free to share with friends/family/whatever, just please use discretion (ya know, copyrights 'n all). *

However, he did say to be careful with it and it is hard to comply with a request by someone who JUST registered on this site as we have no idea who they are.


----------



## JohnNButchNGunny

donnoh said:


> Mr. Broflovski asked each person that got his image to not share it and I'm sure everyone will comply with that request.
> Since you were late with your request please don't ask a member to betray his trust.
> The ebay dude can sell you a similar image pre-loaded on a drive for a reasonable price.


I very much appreciate your response, and need to clarify that I have read every post regarding expanding storage on a TIVO HD so that I would minimize any burden on members here. Mr. Broflovski's last post regarding the image suggested that an interested user should make a public request. I felt I was simply following his suggestion, and I didn't realize there was a timeline for making such requests.

I purchased my Tivo HD in March of 2009, and that is when I joined this forum. I have been reading all of the posts here for the past 15 months to educated myself on the upgrade process, while waiting until my Tivo HD warranty expired. I'm amazed by the depth of technical information shared here by the community members, and hope to be able to contribute in the future. I apologize for any perceived violations of protocol in my posts/requests here - I had no negative intentions - I really just want to upgrade my Tivo HD with a 2TB drive.

Thanks -- John


----------



## rooobosmith

bowlingblogger said:


> I don't know how common this is, but I have a motherboard with 5 or so SATA ports and when I connect a hard drive to them, HDTune will only show SMART data, supported features, etc for a couple of the ports. I figure I must have two different SATA controllers and the ports are divided up between them.
> 
> I know you tried on two different computers, so I doubt this is your problem, but I just thought I'd throw this out there.


I ran the Hitachi tools on my new HD31000.

It could not find the drive on one SATA port, and found it on another, but it still said AAM is not supported.


----------



## reubanks

Here's what Hitachi says:

______________________________________________________
Hi Randy,

Thank you for contacting Hitachi Global Storage Technologies.

I do not know how HDDSCAN work because this is not our tool but the AAM
feature is not currently supported by our Feature Tool.

I do not have the timeline from our Development team when they can provide
the tool that will support the feature.

Regards,

Butch
NA TSC Manager
______________________________________________________

So they used to offer it in their software, but no longer do. Aftermarket software as well as their old version says it isn't supported, so it's also pulled from the firmware...

Time to update the list of recommended drives?

Randy


----------



## Mr. Broflovski

I guess I should have been more clear about everything.

I never intended to offer the image by PM for very long. There was no pressure from TiVo/lawyers/secret societies/etc to stop offering it. Frankly, answering PM's and emails gets old pretty fast.

It was presented to the public in this manner to avoid pissing off TiVo and TCF administration. TiVo has never seemed to mind dedicated users helping eachother out, but certainly does not want to see their intellectual property being distributed willy-nilly all over the internet, ie: direct download links posted in the open for anyone to see.

To anyone wanting a copy at this point, please make a request in a thread such as this one. By 'thread crapping', I meant posting off-topic image begging requests in a thread such as this one, which is dedicated to accomplishing the actual upgrade, not soliciting backup images.

To anyone who has a copy of the image at this point, please help out your fellow man by sharing the image (in private), if you feel comfortable in doing so with the requesting individual. Just do not post direct download links in public, share the actual link that I originally provided (which is dead now BTW), or share the image with vendors (as I requested in our private conversations).

Thank you.

--Kyle


----------



## MPSAN

Mr. Broflovski said:


> I guess I should have been more clear about everything.
> 
> I never intended to offer the image by PM for very long. There was no pressure from TiVo/lawyers/secret societies/etc to stop offering it. Frankly, answering PM's and emails gets old pretty fast.
> 
> It was presented to the public in this manner to avoid pissing off TiVo and TCF administration. TiVo has never seemed to mind dedicated users helping eachother out, but certainly does not want to see their intellectual property being distributed willy-nilly all over the internet, ie: direct download links posted in the open for anyone to see.
> 
> To anyone wanting a copy at this point, please make a request in a thread such as this one. By 'thread crapping', I meant posting off-topic image begging requests in a thread such as this one, which is dedicated to accomplishing the actual upgrade, not soliciting backup images.
> 
> To anyone who has a copy of the image at this point, please help out your fellow man by sharing the image (in private), if you feel comfortable in doing so with the requesting individual. Just do not post direct download links in public, share the actual link that I originally provided (which is dead now BTW), or share the image with vendors (as I requested in our private conversations).
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --Kyle


Good clarification, Kyle. But how can I or anyone else, give JohnNButchNGunny a copy as he actually posted this...

_...while waiting until my Tivo HD warranty expired_

I mean...who on this forum actually did that? This sounds suspicious!  Rich gave us permission way before that (several days after first power on). Anyway, John needs a post or two before he can get a PM.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

reubanks said:


> It looks like FTv2.15 doesn't even have an AAM function! DIMMIT! Did Hitachi farm out their 2TB drives to Seagate!?!


Yes, I noticed AAM missing a while ago.

But what's probably happened is that on the newer drives Hitachi can't control the seeking as precisely as they used to be able to. They don't support AAM because it's probably more difficult or impossible to do.


----------



## jwl

Great thread! I've been reading & taking notes for a week, but likely missed some things & would appreciate any guidance toward the right options. Many thanks.

Our mom's internally unmodified 12-month-old Tivo HD has been connected for 10 months to a 1T My DVR Expander, which is failing. We've unplugged both, still married. We'd really like to save the programming. 

Before getting to options for rescue, I'm hoping to diagnose the cause. I understand it could be: (1) the Expander drive, (2) its enclosure (is that the same thing as the power supply?), or (3) the e-SATA cable.

It started freezing at the same spots on playback (& other operations, as we recall), causing a reboot at least daily for about a week. It has not yet failed to recognize the Expander. We ran TiVo's Smart Test. The primary drive passed all tests but the secondary read "Fail 7" for Short Test, Conveyance Test, & Extended Test.

We were using the cable boxed with the Expander, so we ordered a SIIG cable online. It didn't make a difference. (By the way, are there any identifying marks on a SIIG cable? The plastic bag for this one is generic, & "SIIG" is not imprinted among the other codes on the cable.)

A TiVo Support tech said the cable was unlikely to be the cause, since the TiVo was recognizing the Expander.

We have Bright House with an M-card & tuning adapter. We'd had loss of signal every week since the cable install a year ago. Shortly before the Expander began to fail, a BH tech said that the M-card had never been correctly installed. Now we wonder if the "EMM" M-card error code he was getting was caused by the failing Expander.

The Expander is still under warranty, but I guess WD would want it back before they'd send a replacement, complicating the copy process. Our only other TiVo is an 8-year-old Series 2. Our wireless network is "g" -- so it would take days on TiVo Desktop (assuming the good things aren't protected). We'd also like to copy things as quickly as possible, before a total drive failure.

So I think what I'd like to find out is:

1. Is it the cable, & how do I know if I have a real SIIG?

2. Is it the housing or power supply, & can a technical/computer novice switch the Expander drive into a new housing or supply?

3. Is it the drive, & would a novice have any chance following the copy instructions in software in this thread -- or be better taking it to the computer guy at Staples who says he has a degree in computers & could -- with some research -- do the job?

4. Besides booting up the TiVo & the Expander in the wrong sequence, is there anything to avoid before starting the copying -- anything that would make failure occur sooner, or would force extra charges from Bright House?

Thanks!


----------



## jcthorne

If one was going to purchase a 2TB drive specific for a TivoHD which would be best? I do not have a desktop pc with SATA ports to do the WD utilities, the upgrade will be accomplished on a laptop using a USB - SATA docking port. Thanks for the recomendations. Not so much concerned about a few dollars one way or the other, just getting the right drive to do this as easy as possible with a positive outcome.


----------



## Marconi

jwl said:


> 3. Is it the drive, & would a novice have any chance following the copy instructions in software in this thread -- or be better taking it to the computer guy at Staples who says he has a degree in computers & could -- with some research -- do the job?


If you pause this during playback, will it still crash? If not, I recommend iTiVo and "decrypt" mode to transfer recordings to your computer as a simple way to rescue them with no computer science degree needed. pyTivo will allow you to transfer them back to the DVR once you sort out whatever's wrong. I've done this for several failing TiVo drives.

You will, of course, need a large drive or two connected to your computer to store them all.


----------



## richsadams

jwl said:


> Great thread! I've been reading & taking notes for a week, but likely missed some things & would appreciate any guidance toward the right options. Many thanks.


 Welcome to the forum...sorry it's under such frustrating circumstances. It looks like you've done your homework. :up:



jwl said:


> So I think what I'd like to find out is:
> 
> 1. Is it the cable, & how do I know if I have a real SIIG?


 It really doesn't matter. The issue was/is the connectors on the cable supplied by WD not seating fully. If you have a snug connection on both ends it s/b fine.



jwl said:


> 2. Is it the housing or power supply, & can a technical/computer novice switch the Expander drive into a new housing or supply?


If it's the enclosure no one knows for sure what causes the failure (it's likely a bridge and/or chipset issue). Removing the hard drive from the enclosure and putting it in a new one is fairly simple. I'm sure there are appropriate YouTube instructional videos available. Doing that would void the drive's warranty of course. In your case however it's more probable that the hard drive itself is failing based on the SMART test.



jwl said:


> 3. Is it the drive, & would a novice have any chance following the copy instructions in software in this thread -- or be better taking it to the computer guy at Staples who says he has a degree in computers & could -- with some research -- do the job?


An exact copy of the hard drive can be accomplished using a Unix/Linux program called "dd". If you're not familiar with that having someone else do it is a possibility. Keep in mind that TiVo recognizes the hard drive by the model number so you would have to use the exact same eSATA drive. In other words, you'd have to copy your existing WD My DVR Expander hard drive to a brand new WD My DVR Expander for it to work.



jwl said:


> 4. Besides booting up the TiVo & the Expander in the wrong sequence, is there anything to avoid before starting the copying -- anything that would make failure occur sooner, or would force extra charges from Bright House?


 If you're talking about copying recordings to another TiVo or using TiVo Desktop or another program to copy recordings from TiVo to a computer, no there's nothing you could do that would cause any more problems. The speed of the copy process can be improved slightly by tuning TiVo to channels that you do not receive on both tuners. If there's any chance of connecting TiVo via Ethernet instead of using WiFi that would speed up the process as well.

FWIW TiVo (or the eSATA drive) would have no effect on the cable card as everything is one-way. I'm not familiar with tuning adapters though, so someone that is may chime in as to how that might affect TiVo with respect to hard drive issues. The continual loss of signal or other ongoing signal issues could take a toll on TiVo's hard drive I/O correction abilities; shortening the hard drive's life I suppose.

Although the 500GB model of the WD My DVR Expanders has a lousy track record (often failing after 12 to 18 months), the 1TB models seem to be doing better based on forum posts. However that may be due to the fact that they haven't been out as long and/or there aren't as many in the wild.

The bottom line is that it sounds like the Expander hard drive is failing. That's unfortunate but it happens. In your case trying to make a copy of the Expander probably isn't practical. It will be best to move any non-protected recordings you or your mom can't live without to a computer (or other TiVo) ASAP then properly divorce the eSATA drive and replace it with a new one. Then you can move the recordings back and life will go on. Just to be sure TiVo is behaving after divorcing the Expander, I would let it run for a couple of weeks w/o an Expander attached. That way you'll know if something else is going on.

Hope that helps and feel free to get some clarification or ask some more questions.

BTW...you're a good son.


----------



## Keen

richsadams said:


> Although the 500GB model of the WD My DVR Expanders has a lousy track record (often failing after 12 to 18 months), the 1TB models seem to be doing better based on forum posts. However that may be due to the fact that they haven't been out as long and/or there aren't as many in the wild.


My 1TB lasted a whole 7 months before dying. The drive itself went bad.


----------



## richsadams

Keen said:


> My 1TB lasted a whole 7 months before dying. The drive itself went bad.


Well, that's not good news. Hopefully we won't see more 1TB problems cropping up. I was hoping that WD made some improvements over the 500GB models, but I guess only time will tell. Thanks for the data point though! :up:


----------



## richsadams

jcthorne said:


> If one was going to purchase a 2TB drive specific for a TivoHD which would be best? I do not have a desktop pc with SATA ports to do the WD utilities, the upgrade will be accomplished on a laptop using a USB - SATA docking port. Thanks for the recomendations. Not so much concerned about a few dollars one way or the other, just getting the right drive to do this as easy as possible with a positive outcome.


Hmmm...the Western Digital GP drives have the quietest specs of course, but IIRC you'd still need a PC to modify or disable the Intellipark feature...and if you had that you could adjust the AAM to make it even more quiet. But if you can live with the soft reboot issue and find the sound level acceptable I'd go with the WD20EADS. Otherwise I'd find a quiet Hitachi or Seagate drive (in that order...I used to be a Seagate man, but they've had so many issues since acquiring Maxtor).

No way to bribe someone with a PC eh?


----------



## bowlingblogger

If anyone here (in or near Tucson) ever needs access to a Windows PC with empty SATA ports to run WinMFS, wdidle, AAM tools, etc feel free to PM me to arrange for a visit. Bring your hard drive(s), of course, and if you happen to have a couple of beers in your hand when you arrive, all the better!


----------



## richsadams

bowlingblogger said:


> If anyone here (in or near Tucson) ever needs access to a Windows PC with empty SATA ports to run WinMFS, wdidle, AAM tools, etc feel free to PM me to arrange for a visit. Bring your hard drive(s), of course, and if you happen to have a couple of beers in your hand when you arrive, all the better!


Wow...how generous...and only two beers? What a deal!! :up:


----------



## Lyzardo

bhiga said:


> I just upgraded my Series3 stock drive to a WD10EVDS drive and the unit was stuck on "Powering up..." screen with all lights on. After more reading I found this thread and learned IntelliPark was the likely culprit. So off I went to get WDIDLE3 to disable IntelliPark.


I, too, just upgraded a Tivo HD with the same drive (the drive had a "born on" date of March 2010) and have had no soft reboot problems, even after soft rebooting several times. (In fact, I do it a couple times a week just to see what happens). Wait. That sounded wierd. 

Anyway, I have not done any disabling of Intellipark. It has been working fine for almost two weeks. Not sure if the other shoe is going to drop on me here or what, but so far so good.


----------



## richsadams

Lyzardo said:


> I, too, just upgraded a Tivo HD with the same drive (the drive had a "born on" date of March 2010) and have had no soft reboot problems, even after soft rebooting several times. (In fact, I do it a couple times a week just to see what happens). Wait. That sounded wierd.
> 
> Anyway, I have not done any disabling of Intellipark. It has been working fine for almost two weeks. Not sure if the other shoe is going to drop on me here or what, but so far so good.


Thanks very much for the feedback...very valuable.

IIRC that makes two reports of WD10EVDS hard drives not needing Intellipark to be disabled for a soft reboot. Hopefully WD has addressed the issue.

Enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## cr33p

richsadams said:


> Thanks very much for the feedback...very valuable.
> 
> IIRC that makes two reports of WD10EVDS hard drives not needing Intellipark to be disabled for a soft reboot. Hopefully WD has addressed the issue.
> 
> Enjoy your "new" TiVo!


Funny thing to mention on my WD15EARS born date March 2010, this drive exhibited no soft reboot issues installed into my 648250b machine, I then install it into my 652160 machine and have a soft reboot issue. YAY. Easy fix though


----------



## bowlingblogger

richsadams said:


> Wow...how generous...and only two beers? What a deal!! :up:


Did I say a couple? I meant a couple or ten...


----------



## whitepelican

Newegg currently has the 1TB WD10EARS drives for $64.99 with free shipping - WD10EARS You need to use promo code "emcysnz48" to get the $64.99 price.


----------



## turbobuick86

WESTERN DIGITAL WD15EARS Caviar Green 1.5TB - $80 delivered while supplies last.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?prodlist=cj&ProductCode=10011913


----------



## MikeAndrews

turbobuick86 said:


> WESTERN DIGITAL WD15EARS Caviar Green 1.5TB - $80 delivered while supplies last.
> 
> http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?prodlist=cj&ProductCode=10011913


It's $94.99 with a $15 mail-in rebate, but it's still a deal except for me. I always get burned when life takes priority and I end up forgetting to send in the rebate.

I'm getting the Western Digital AV-GP WD15EVDS 1.5TB which is $119 currently at NewEgg, and I'll likely buy it somewhere else, like Amazon ($137), because NewEgg doesn't handle drives with the due care.


----------



## turbobuick86

netringer said:


> It's 94.99 with a $15 mail-in rebate, but it's still a deal except for me. I always get burned when life takes priority and I end up forgetting to send in the rebate.
> 
> I'm getting the Western Digital AV-GP WD15EVDS 1.5TB which is $119 currently at NewEgg, and I'll likely buy it somewhere else, like Amazon ($137), because NewEgg doesn't handle drives with the due care.


My wallet is getting thick with plastic rebate cards ranging from $15 to $150. I just need to remember to use them. One even has an expiration date of August this year, but I think that's against the law in California... or is that only gift cards and not rebate cards?


----------



## JohnNButchNGunny

Mr. Broflovski said:


> I guess I should have been more clear about everything.
> 
> I never intended to offer the image by PM for very long. There was no pressure from TiVo/lawyers/secret societies/etc to stop offering it. Frankly, answering PM's and emails gets old pretty fast.
> 
> It was presented to the public in this manner to avoid pissing off TiVo and TCF administration. TiVo has never seemed to mind dedicated users helping eachother out, but certainly does not want to see their intellectual property being distributed willy-nilly all over the internet, ie: direct download links posted in the open for anyone to see.
> 
> To anyone wanting a copy at this point, please make a request in a thread such as ... By 'thread crapping', I meant posting off-topic image begging requests in a thread such as this one, which is dedicated to accomplishing the actual upgrade, not soliciting backup images.
> 
> To anyone who has a copy of the image at this point, please help out your fellow man by sharing the image (in private), if you feel comfortable in doing so with the requesting individual. Just do not post direct download links in public, share the actual link that I originally provided (which is dead now BTW), or share the image with vendors (as I requested in our private conversations).
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --Kyle


Kyle,

Thanks for the very positive post explaining your history with the 2TB Tivo HD image. Since my postings on this thread, and the one you recommended, I have received multiple messages from members asking if I've received a copy. As of this posting, I have not obtained the image, and am very interested in upgrading my Tivo HD with a WD20EVDS 2TB drive. I understand how time consuming it must be to deal with this message traffic. I greatly appreciate any help you can provide.

Thanks! -- John


----------



## dprichter

dprichter said:


> I am planning on upgrading my internal original drive on my Series 3 with the following equipment.
> 
> HITACHI Deskstar HD31000 IDK/7K (0S00163) 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
> 
> StarTech SATADOCK22UE eSATA USB to SATA External HDD Dock for Dual 2.5 or 3.5in Hard Drive
> 
> Just want to make sure this is the right equipment for the upgrade?
> 
> I would like to thank everyone in advance for the great information I have been reading here in conjunction with this upgrade.


Tried the upgrade yesterday with recordings intact. Tried MfsCopy. That did not work so well got hung up. Probably bad sectors on drive. I put the old drive back in the TiVo and and finished watching all recordings.

Ran the upgrade this morning with the backup command. All is well and I now have 1TB drive.

Thanks again!


----------



## MitchV

In case this might help anyone who tracks this stuff...

I posted some months ago and this weekend I finally got around to upgrading my TiVo HD. I just followed the standard upgrade path (WinMFS -> copied recordings and everything).

Everything appears to be working well and I have soft-rebooted several times... no issues. /shrug

I guess I just *barely* beat the cut-off date with this HD.

MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
Product of Thailand
DATE: 19 SEP 2009
DCM: HBNCNV2MGB
R/N: 701640
LBA: 1953525168

My post was way back here -> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784&page=128

Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

dprichter said:


> Ran the upgrade this morning with the backup command. All is well and I now have 1TB drive.





MitchV said:


> I posted some months ago and this weekend I finally got around to upgrading my TiVo HD. I just followed the standard upgrade path (WinMFS -> copied recordings and everything).


Congrats guys...and welcome to the "Big Boys" club.  Enjoy!


----------



## jwl

Marconi said:


> If you pause this during playback, will it still crash? If not, I recommend iTiVo and "decrypt" mode to transfer recordings to your computer as a simple way to rescue them with no computer science degree needed. pyTivo will allow you to transfer them back to the DVR once you sort out whatever's wrong. I've done this for several failing TiVo drives.
> 
> You will, of course, need a large drive or two connected to your computer to store them all.


Thanks, Marconi. It's not crashing during playback pause but, during pause, the TV speakers from HDMI audio have a rapid, static-like, soft clicking that I don't recall hearing before. It sounds like a digital stream. (But it's now on a different TV at my place instead of mom's, while I try to fix it.)

I'm gathering that iTiVo works only with Macs & can't be adapted for Vista or 7? No Macs here....

pyTiVo might work with Windows, I think I'm understanding?

About 1/3 of the programs -- even major network shows -- are copy protected. Does iTiVo's decrypt mode get around that? In case a relative wants to help.

Worse, I can't make the others transfer. More on that below.


----------



## jwl

richsadams said:


> Welcome to the forum...sorry it's under such frustrating circumstances. It looks like you've done your homework. :up:
> 
> It really doesn't matter. The issue was/is the connectors on the cable supplied by WD not seating fully. If you have a snug connection on both ends it s/b fine.
> 
> If it's the enclosure no one knows for sure what causes the failure (it's likely a bridge and/or chipset issue). Removing the hard drive from the enclosure and putting it in a new one is fairly simple. I'm sure there are appropriate YouTube instructional videos available. Doing that would void the drive's warranty of course. In your case however it's more probable that the hard drive itself is failing based on the SMART test.
> 
> An exact copy of the hard drive can be accomplished using a Unix/Linux program called "dd". If you're not familiar with that having someone else do it is a possibility. Keep in mind that TiVo recognizes the hard drive by the model number so you would have to use the exact same eSATA drive. In other words, you'd have to copy your existing WD My DVR Expander hard drive to a brand new WD My DVR Expander for it to work.
> 
> If you're talking about copying recordings to another TiVo or using TiVo Desktop or another program to copy recordings from TiVo to a computer, no there's nothing you could do that would cause any more problems. The speed of the copy process can be improved slightly by tuning TiVo to channels that you do not receive on both tuners. If there's any chance of connecting TiVo via Ethernet instead of using WiFi that would speed up the process as well.
> 
> FWIW TiVo (or the eSATA drive) would have no effect on the cable card as everything is one-way. I'm not familiar with tuning adapters though, so someone that is may chime in as to how that might affect TiVo with respect to hard drive issues. The continual loss of signal or other ongoing signal issues could take a toll on TiVo's hard drive I/O correction abilities; shortening the hard drive's life I suppose.
> 
> Although the 500GB model of the WD My DVR Expanders has a lousy track record (often failing after 12 to 18 months), the 1TB models seem to be doing better based on forum posts. However that may be due to the fact that they haven't been out as long and/or there aren't as many in the wild.
> 
> The bottom line is that it sounds like the Expander hard drive is failing. That's unfortunate but it happens. In your case trying to make a copy of the Expander probably isn't practical. It will be best to move any non-protected recordings you or your mom can't live without to a computer (or other TiVo) ASAP then properly divorce the eSATA drive and replace it with a new one. Then you can move the recordings back and life will go on. Just to be sure TiVo is behaving after divorcing the Expander, I would let it run for a couple of weeks w/o an Expander attached. That way you'll know if something else is going on.
> 
> Hope that helps and feel free to get some clarification or ask some more questions.
> 
> BTW...you're a good son.


We greatly appreciate your help, here & throughout, Rich. I'll follow what you say wherever I can.

Current status in brief: 
1. We'd still like to save the programming.
2. The DVR Expander is under warranty.
3. Copying the data would necessitate opening the seal & voiding the warranty -- or _would_ it need to be opened?
4. We're having trouble copying to a PC using TiVo Desktop. (More below.)

I'm feeling chances are slim, but what the heck?

As for the e-SATA cable, the connection to the TiVo has never been tight, FWIW, but jiggles a bit -- using both ends of the cables I've tried. I haven't done much work yet with what I believe is a SIIG, installed just yesterday.

(A large seller of "SIIG" cables on Amazon had sold me "SIIG" cables at a low price. After a few emails, SIIG said the ones I got did not appear to be SIIG's.)

Still, I'd agree the problem is the drive & not the cables or enclosure.

Would leaving the drive running for several days while sending data to a PC more likely cause it to fail than leaving it off & rebooting a lot -- or quickly duping the drive if possible?

And, the drive is under warranty, so I'd like to avoid voiding that.

I gather the only way not to void the warranty is to use USB-to-eSATA cables. I also gather that -- for simply copying data onto an identical drive -- simple cables or a dock is not possible, & that I'd have to hire someone to use MFSLive & linux, etc.

(WD will send out a new drive, giving us 30 days to return the old one without charge. So, both drives would be available in case anything non-invasive can be done.)

There are 144 comments on Amazon about the 1T Expander, with multiple reports of failure. FWIW, some said the 1T was unavailable for several months beginning last fall while WD apparently tried to address problems. One contributor said last month that WD finally provided driver updates & the Expander is now again available & working "perfectly."

Great! But, would new driver updates make any replacement drive no longer "identical" to the older drives & therefore unable to accept a data transfer?

As for trying TiVo Desktop, many files that will play or scan through will not transfer. Only two small files have transferred fully:

1. An HD half hour (1954 MB) that causes WMP to crash (on an old laptop, anyway).
2. An SD half hour (609 MB) that is the only full success.

All other files get the following errors:

"Interrupted," with an option to "Start Transfer Again."

Followed by "The network location cannot be reached. For more info about network troubleshooting, see Windows Help."

The message then changes to "The system cannot find the file specified."

"Failed" then appears, with no option.

The partial file can be saved if, shortly after "Interrupted" appears, the user does something (I can't recall) with the "Now Playing" option instead of selecting "Start Transfer Again."

It's curious that one transfer failed every time it reached 2048 MB -- pretty exactly 2G. Others also may have failed at 2G, but I wasn't there when they did, & the size of the failed transfer quickly disappears (unless you're there to save the file).

I'll try another computer, in case the 2G maximum is a computer problem.

I hope this is helpful to other readers. I can't help but think there must be a solution, since every file I've tried lately will play through.

Until it fails, I guess we could always sit & watch the stuff like in the old days, or archive/shift to DVD. Mom's going on 88 & still gets a charge out of all the action shows (when she's not at the garden or book club) -- but at a much earlier hour than 10 pm. She actually time-shifted everything on VCRs, & TiVo has made it even easier to get both excitement & a decent night's sleep. 

Thanks again!


----------



## jwl

Following my previous post, every other transfer from the TiVo HD to Desktop has failed at 2048 MB. The same error message appears: "The system cannot find the file specified."

These files play through on the TiVo.

Could the 2G that does transfer be solely on the TiVo's internal drive (or the external)? Is the transfer failing at the transition point from one drive to another?

As for the other glitch, the 1954 MB file that caused WMP to crash on an old laptop will play through on a newer one.


----------



## Jonathan_S

jwl said:


> Following my previous post, every other transfer from the TiVo HD to Desktop has failed at 2048 MB. The same error message appears: "The system cannot find the file specified."
> 
> These files play through on the TiVo.
> 
> Could the 2G that does transfer be solely on the TiVo's internal drive (or the external)? Is the transfer failing at the transition point from one drive to another?


That sounds like a file system issue on the computer you're transfering to. (For example I know that the FAT 32 file system has a 2048 MB filesize limit, as do other older file systems.)

But I've know I transfered plenty files in the 5 - 8 GB range and I think I've done a few in the 15 GB range (all to an NTFS filesystem).

Can you check what file system the target disk is using?


----------



## evanborkow

jwl said:


> Following my previous post, every other transfer from the TiVo HD to Desktop has failed at 2048 MB. The same error message appears: "The system cannot find the file specified."
> 
> These files play through on the TiVo.
> 
> Could the 2G that does transfer be solely on the TiVo's internal drive (or the external)? Is the transfer failing at the transition point from one drive to another?
> 
> As for the other glitch, the 1954 MB file that caused WMP to crash on an old laptop will play through on a newer one.


I had a similar problem and it turned out to be my anti virus program, Kasperski. Updating the AV program fixed the problem for me.


----------



## jwl

Jonathan_S said:


> That sounds like a file system issue on the computer you're transfering to. (For example I know that the FAT 32 file system has a 2048 MB filesize limit, as do other older file systems.)
> 
> But I've know I transfered plenty files in the 5 - 8 GB range and I think I've done a few in the 15 GB range (all to an NTFS filesystem).
> 
> Can you check what file system the target disk is using?


Thanks. It's NTFS. File system problem seemed very reasonable. I'd just uncovered the bizarre but likely reason -- Kaspersky anti-virus -- when I read the post below yours, pointing to Kaspersky.


----------



## jwl

evanborkow said:


> I had a similar problem and it turned out to be my anti virus program, Kasperski. Updating the AV program fixed the problem for me.


Congratulations. What did you update to that fixed it?

I had just found some threads here about Kaspersky & 2048 MB or 2G. Followed instructions on getting Kaspersky to treat the 3 TiVo programs as trusted. So far no luck.

Other members added that they'd gotten things working but were failing once again after updating to the 2009 Kaspersky (which I'm using), but then got up to 4G with the 2010 edition. 4G isn't much of an improvement; it won't even get most 1-hour HD programs. I haven't found anyone with a solution. Most frequent advice is to drop Kaspersky.

One post says "You also NEED Curl.exe (I think this is the one people forgot about)." Can anyone tell me where I need to have Curl.exe -- or what it is, & where in Kaspersky settings it goes? Thanks.

[Not too OT, I hope. Good drives, old or new, might seem to need replacing or upgrading when it's the PC's AV that's faulty.]


----------



## evanborkow

jwl said:


> Congratulations. What did you update to that fixed it?
> 
> I had just found some threads here about Kaspersky & 2048 MB or 2G. Followed instructions on getting Kaspersky to treat the 3 TiVo programs as trusted. So far no luck.
> 
> Other members added that they'd gotten things working but were failing once again after updating to the 2009 Kaspersky (which I'm using), but then got up to 4G with the 2010 edition. 4G isn't much of an improvement; it won't even get most 1-hour HD programs. I haven't found anyone with a solution. Most frequent advice is to drop Kaspersky.
> 
> One post says "You also NEED Curl.exe (I think this is the one people forgot about)." Can anyone tell me where I need to have Curl.exe -- or what it is, & where in Kaspersky settings it goes? Thanks.
> 
> [Not too OT, I hope. Good drives, old or new, might seem to need replacing or upgrading when it's the PC's AV that's faulty.]


I went from Kaspersky AV 2009 to AV 2010 and had no problem with files > 4G.


----------



## cwerdna

Awhile ago, I found out one of my coworkers has a Tivo HD and was complaining about how flaky the eSATA connection was with his Expander. He talked about it being loose and how he'd sometimes receive the External Storage Missing message. Because of the above, he characterized TiVo as the most unreliable consumer device he's ever bought.

Well, he's not active here on TC and didn't know about the recommended cables and supposedly crappy Expander stock ones.

For me, on my Tivo HD, the stock cable WD supplied w/my 1 TB Expander isn't that loose and I've NEVER hit the External Storage Missing message. I bought the SIIG CB-SA0111-S1 (via http://www.walmart.com/ip/SIIG-eSATA-to-eSATA-cable-1m/10884515#ProductDetail, I believe) for good measure and used that, eventually. It seems to fit w/more friction and stay in better but it's not light years ahead, IMHO.

I loaned him my stock WD cable and he said it was identical and just as loose. I loaned him my SIIG CB-SA0111-S1 and today he told me it fits much more securely. It seems like TiVo might've revved the connectors or perhaps they become looser over time? I believe his is older than mine. I got mine in Sept 09.


----------



## Mahty

richsadams said:


> Good info. :up:
> 
> So for those that follow...possibly WD GP hard drives manufactured after X date March 2010 may not need the Intellipark "feature" disabled. (I think we can assume everyone with a TiVo Series3 or TiVo HD/HDXL has received v11.0g by now.)
> 
> FUTURE UPGRADERS: If you are going to upgrade your TiVo Series3 or TiVo HD/HDXL using a Western Digital GP (green) hard drive your help is needed. If the drive was manufactured sometime in March 2010 or later and is 1TB or greater, try performing the upgrade and installing it w/o disabling Intellipark (running wdidle.exe). Then try a soft reboot (menu restart) and let us know if it hangs on the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen. Posting your results will be very valuable to those that follow.
> 
> Everyone's help would be appreciated because I know I'd like to see these drives go back in the "fully recommended" category myself!


I just bought a WD15EVDS (born on 01Apr2010) for my S3. After using WinMFS to copy to the new drive a truncated backup image of the S3's original and long-ago-retired WD 250GB drive, I performed the transplant. Initial tests showed that the WD15EVDS had the IntelliPark soft-reboot problem. 

However, that truncated image contained TiVo S/W version 8.0.1c. After updating the S/W on the new drive to the current 11.0g, the IntelliPark soft-reboot problem is gone! 

So, at least for the S3 (and I would imagine the THD, THDXL, etc.), it seems that 11.0g contains a fix for the WD IntelliPark soft-reboot problem. Has this officially been established by the TiVo Community?


----------



## TooManyTimeZones

I just wanted to thank the TIVO community for this great guide. For the last couple months, my TIVO-HD was randomly screwing up recordings; all of the signal levels looked ok, so I suspected that my hard drive was failing. I bought a 1TB Hitachi hard drive (~ $90 at Frys) and went to work. 

Everything went smoothly except for transferring my existing recordings. I expected this problem since some of the recordings on my drive were already screwed up; perhaps there are some bad sectors on the drive. Mfscopy would just stop working and the status bar wouldn't move. I tried it a couple of times, gave it a few hours to run, but there was no progress (and I have eSATA hookups and a fast PC). 

Anyway, I decided to just transfer the system and my settings instead; this worked just fine, with the entire operation completing in just a few minutes. I'm up and running. 

Thanks again!
Keith


----------



## yukit

Mahty said:


> I just bought a WD15EVDS (born on 01Apr2010) for my S3. After using WinMFS to copy to the new drive a truncated backup image of the S3's original and long-ago-retired WD 250GB drive, I performed the transplant. Initial tests showed that the WD15EVDS had the IntelliPark soft-reboot problem.
> 
> However, that truncated image contained TiVo S/W version 8.0.1c. After updating the S/W on the new drive to the current 11.0g, the IntelliPark soft-reboot problem is gone!
> 
> So, at least for the S3 (and I would imagine the THD, THDXL, etc.), it seems that 11.0g contains a fix for the WD IntelliPark soft-reboot problem. Has this officially been established by the TiVo Community?


I just copied an image on a new (build date Feb 17, 2010) WD20EARS for a TivoHD, then updated it to 11.0g, but soft-boot failed to work.

I guess I have to try disabling Intellipark on the drive. I will report back when I get around to do so over the weekend.


----------



## Marconi

yukit said:


> I just copied an image on a new (build date Feb 17, 2010) WD20EARS for a TivoHD, then updated it to 11.0g, but soft-boot failed to work.
> 
> I guess I have to try disabling Intellipark on the drive.


You shouldn't need to. You ought to be able to reboot by pulling the plug. Then update to 11.0g. If 11.0g does indeed fix the Intellipark problem, you're in a great position to find out.


----------



## richsadams

Mahty said:


> I just bought a WD15EVDS (born on 01Apr2010) for my S3. After using WinMFS to copy to the new drive a truncated backup image of the S3's original and long-ago-retired WD 250GB drive, I performed the transplant. Initial tests showed that the WD15EVDS had the IntelliPark soft-reboot problem.
> 
> However, that truncated image contained TiVo S/W version 8.0.1c. After updating the S/W on the new drive to the current 11.0g, the IntelliPark soft-reboot problem is gone!
> 
> So, at least for the S3 (and I would imagine the THD, THDXL, etc.), it seems that 11.0g contains a fix for the WD IntelliPark soft-reboot problem. Has this officially been established by the TiVo Community?


Thanks very much for the valuable feedback. :up:

After a few posts now it appears that the latest TiVo S3 and THD/HDXL update (v11.0g) may have addressed the WD HDD Intellipark soft reboot issue.

If you're upgrading your TiVo with a Western Digital GP hard drive, please take a moment to post your hard drive's manufacture date, your software version and let us know if you experience the soft reboot issue (hangs at Welcome screen from a menu restart). TIA!


----------



## richsadams

yukit said:


> I just copied an image on a new (build date Feb 17, 2010) WD20EARS for a TivoHD, then updated it to 11.0g, but soft-boot failed to work.
> 
> I guess I have to try disabling Intellipark on the drive. I will report back when I get around to do so over the weekend.


Curious...did you use the 2TB "hacked" images? I've no idea if that would affect the Intellipark/update discussion or not, but let us know how it goes.


----------



## shrike4242

richsadams said:


> In any case, happy upgrading and let us know how it goes!


After going back and forth with the DVR Expander and not being sure the situation with it being viable or not, I decided to go the WD10EVDS route with replacing the internal drive. I tested the expander twice with the WD diag tools and it passed both times. As you've said, the enclosure sometimes gets funny, and I'd rather not take a chance. Regardless, the DVR Expander came from Costco, so I could take it back there for a full refund, which is what I might do.

I ordered that and a pair of BlacX drive docking stations to do the copy of the 160GB internal drive to the 1TB WD drive, the 1TB being connected via eSATA and the other drive via USB. The only "modern" PC I have is a HTPC in my basement and it only has one eSATA port that doesn't seem to work with port multiplication, so I have to do one with eSATA and one with USB. My old laptop with an add-in eSATA card has two eSATA ports on it, though I'm not sure if it would work with a 1TB drive or not.

Only question I have is if the EVDS drive needs the IntelliPark disabled or not. From what I read earlier in the thread, it looks like not, though if anyone installed one recently and can comment, it would be appreciated.

Regardless, it should be all be here by the end of this coming week, so it'll be a weekend project for next week. I'll let you know how it goes.


----------



## yukit

richsadams said:


> Curious...did you use the 2TB "hacked" images? I've no idea if that would affect the Intellipark/update discussion or not, but let us know how it goes.


Yes, this is the 2TB image from Mr. B.
The image had 11.0d software, so I updated it to 11.0g. I was hoping the soft-reboot issue was fixed, but maybe EARS drive works differently than the other GP drives, at least from Tivo's perspective. Oh well...


----------



## Ovit311

Also using Mr. B image on a Hitachi 2TB HDS722020ALA330 Nov-2009. Everything works except I have to toggle the power cord (hard reboot) to get pass the "Welcome powering up" screen. No soft reboot problems, shows 318HD/2777SD hours. Set the AAM to 128, may have to return the drive.


----------



## dmartin5454

I tried posting this over in the Tivo Upgrade Center forum, but haven't gotten any feedback. I hope folks don't mind me posting this here, since it is for a Series2, but I was hoping to catch a wider audience.
I upgraded my Series2 a few years ago, replacing the original 40GB drive with an 80GB, and adding a 250GB drive. Now one (perhaps both?) are starting to make noise, so I figured I had better replace them before they go completely bad. I have a TivoHD that I upgraded the drive to a 1.5TB drive a few months ago, so this exercise is to keep the Series2 working as a secondary unit.
I have read through a lot of postings looking for specific information that confirms that a 1TB SATA drive with the appropriate adapter can be used in the Series2 (mine is the 540040 model -- single tuner, with product lifetime service). I used the WD15EVDS drive for my Series3 upgrade, and used the wdidle3 utility to disable the Intellipark feature. I have been very happy with the results of that drive.
Here are my questions:
1. The FAQ states that the WD drives will not boot at all in the Series2. Is this due to the Intellipark feature, and if so, will disabling it allow the WD green drives to work in the Series2 units?
2. I have seen conflicting information about the specific PATA to SATA adapter available from WOW Parts: http://www.wowparts.com/store/produc...304-01050.html. Can someone confirm if this adapter will or will not work in the Series2?
3. Some folks have high opinions of the Hitachi 1TB Deskstar (HD31000) drive. Amazon has it for $69.99 + $2.95 shipping: http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-Deskst.../dp/B002D5XY8A. Any pros & cons for the Hitachi over the WD green drives? (I would probably stick to a 1TB drive for the Series2.)
I know that going from the two existing internal drives to the single drive will mean I can't save my recordings, but I'll try to transfer the recordings I absolutely need to keep to my Series3 before I upgrade.
If you can think of any other things I need to be aware of or offer any advice, I would appreciate it!


----------



## richsadams

yukit said:


> Yes, this is the 2TB image from Mr. B.
> The image had 11.0d software, so I updated it to 11.0g. I was hoping the soft-reboot issue was fixed, but maybe EARS drive works differently than the other GP drives, at least from Tivo's perspective. Oh well...


Thanks for that. Then it may be that only WD GP drives manufactured sometime in March and thereafter no longer exhibit the soft reboot issue or whatever TiVo may have done in v11.0g only works on those drives? Ugh. So far it looks like there's no empirical evidence to rely on.

Hopefully folks that are upgrading will continue to post their WD drive's manufacture dates and whether or not the soft reboot issue continues to be a problem (w/v11.0g) or not. That would require installing (or at least connecting) the upgraded drive to TiVo prior to disabling the Intellipark feature and trying a menu restart to see if it hangs at the "Welcome" screen. It would be great to be able to recommend the WD GP drives manufactured after "X date", but only time and some additional data points will be the key to doing that. TIA TiVo Pioneers!


----------



## richsadams

Ovit311 said:


> Also using Mr. B image on a Hitachi 2TB HDS722020ALA330 Nov-2009. Everything works except I have to toggle the power cord (hard reboot) to get pass the "Welcome powering up" screen. No soft reboot problems, shows 318HD/2777SD hours. Set the AAM to 128, may have to return the drive.


So on the first power-up, every time, TiVo hangs on the "Welcome" screen? I don't think anyone else has had that issue or at least posted about it. Might be the drive, might be something else. Good info though.

Also that particular drive is too noisy even with the AAM set to 128 then? Is your TiVo in a very quiet setting (bedroom, etc.) or is it unacceptable even in a "normal" situation? Whatever the case, that's also good info. If you do replace it with the same model it would be valuable to know if you happened to receive a faulty drive or if they are all too noisy to use in TiVo. TIA.


----------



## richsadams

jwl said:


> Would leaving the drive running for several days while sending data to a PC more likely cause it to fail than leaving it off & rebooting a lot -- or quickly duping the drive if possible?


One of the toughest things on a hard drive (besides heat) is to power it on and off repeatedly. The power surge required to spin the platters up to full speed can take its toll. There is also added opportunity for data corruption during power on/off. However in today's drives it's much less of an issue than in days gone by. Most hard drive experts still say that the ideal situation is to leave a drive powered on though.



jwl said:


> I gather the only way not to void the warranty is to use USB-to-eSATA cables. I also gather that -- for simply copying data onto an identical drive -- simple cables or a dock is not possible, & that I'd have to hire someone to use MFSLive & linux, etc.


Opening the enclosure will void the warranty of course but the method used to connect two drives using dd to make an exact copy isn't so much the issue, it's being able to use dd. It's not terribly hard but if you don't have some Unix/Linux experience (or a computer set up to run it) it might be best to have someone else give it a try. There are lots of geeks to be found on Craigslist and elsewhere that could probably do it for you pretty cheap.



jwl said:


> There are 144 comments on Amazon about the 1T Expander, with multiple reports of failure. FWIW, some said the 1T was unavailable for several months beginning last fall while WD apparently tried to address problems. One contributor said last month that WD finally provided driver updates & the Expander is now again available & working "perfectly."
> 
> Great! But, would new driver updates make any replacement drive no longer "identical" to the older drives & therefore unable to accept a data transfer?


 Doubtful and even if there were significant changes it wouldn't affect your goal. The only thing you're concerned with is the model number which is what TiVo recognizes and that would be the same and the data on the drive. Assuming you could get an exact data copy made, your recordings (or at least the data contained on the Expander) would be the same as well.



jwl said:


> As for trying TiVo Desktop, many files that will play or scan through will not transfer. Only two small files have transferred fully:
> 
> 1. An HD half hour (1954 MB) that causes WMP to crash (on an old laptop, anyway).
> 2. An SD half hour (609 MB) that is the only full success.
> 
> All other files get the following errors:
> 
> "Interrupted," with an option to "Start Transfer Again."
> 
> Followed by "The network location cannot be reached. For more info about network troubleshooting, see Windows Help."
> 
> The message then changes to "The system cannot find the file specified."
> 
> "Failed" then appears, with no option.
> 
> The partial file can be saved if, shortly after "Interrupted" appears, the user does something (I can't recall) with the "Now Playing" option instead of selecting "Start Transfer Again."
> 
> It's curious that one transfer failed every time it reached 2048 MB -- pretty exactly 2G. Others also may have failed at 2G, but I wasn't there when they did, & the size of the failed transfer quickly disappears (unless you're there to save the file).
> 
> I'll try another computer, in case the 2G maximum is a computer problem.


 Ugh. There are a number of variables when it comes to transferring recordings from TiVo to a computer. It could be the recordings themselves. If there is some data corruption TiVo can often overcome them but transfers can fail. Many times folks will play back the problematic recording on TiVo and just about where the transfer fails there is some sort of glitch (macroblocking, audio dropout, etc.) on the recording. It could have something to do with the size or the antivirus software issue that others have mentioned. It could even be something to do with TiVo Desktop. A number of folks here are using a third-party program called KMTTG in lieu of TiVo Desktop with more favorable transfer outcomes. Since I have Macs TiVo Desktop for Mac is somewhat limited so I'm using iTiVo and PyTiVoX, but I've used KMTTG and it works quite well so you might want to give it a shot.

Hope you get your mom's TiVo back up and running...it sounds like she really enjoys it!


----------



## hmm52

I've used a 750GB Seagate DB35 externally since I purchased an S3 in January 2008. It gave me warnings that all was not right - random reboots on average once a week. More so recently. When it previously got stuck in a reboot loop on occasion, a hard reset/reboot would nudge it forward. Last week it wouldn't advance past "a few minutes more" regardless. Timing not the best as I'm recording much of the French Open.

For expediency I divorced the drives and regained use of the TiVo. Loss of recordings annoying but not earth shattering. For the time being a WD 640GB borrowed from a desktop is connected externally. The DB35 quickly failed all tests except for S.M.A.R.T. and was accepted for warranty replacement -now on its way.

My question is whether or not to use the replacement as anything more than a backup. I don't know what Seagate gives you under warranty exchange or if there are clearly better choices at this time. AFAIK there's nothing wrong with the S3 HDD, but it's going on 3 years now. If you've got a good one, keep it in use? Through this recent exercize, I found out that 250GB is woefully inadequate. One TB total capacity is adequate for my habits however.

Any advice and expertise would be greatly appreciated.


---Poor sounding fan in MX 1 case should also be remedied now if I retain an external drive. It hasn't sounded that well from the beginning. Inattentiveness....


----------



## Mahty

I tried "clearing and deleting everything" on a new expanded drive for my S3, but the process seems to hang. Is there a known issue with running the C&DE command on an expanded drive (what with the added partitions and all)?

Also, can I do an MFSadd after the fact? I ask because I think I'll redo the upgrade process again, but with the C&DE attempt performed earlier. Specifically, I'll copy my trusty old S3-original truncated backup image to my new drive, install the drive in my S3, run the C&DE on this non-expanded drive, and, if successful, remove the C&DE'd drive and expand it using the MFSadd and supersize commands. Sound reasonable?


----------



## richsadams

hmm52 said:


> I've used a 750GB Seagate DB35 externally since I purchased an S3 in January 2008. It gave me warnings that all was not right - random reboots on average once a week.


I've always been of the mind that the fewer the failure points the better. Have you considered upgrading the internal hard drive (per the instructions on the first post of this FAQ)? If you're comfortable connecting a hard drive to a computer it's really quite easy. A brand new 1TB hard drive can be had for under $75 these days...sometimes less. Put the original hard drive on the shelf as a backup and you're golden. That's the way I would go, but your call of course.

BTW...that shouldn't be confused with "expert advice". Keep in mind that you get what you pay for here.


----------



## richsadams

Mahty said:


> I tried "clearing and deleting everything" on a new expanded drive for my S3, but the process seems to hang. Is there a known issue with running the C&DE command on an expanded drive (what with the added partitions and all)?
> 
> Also, can I do an MFSadd after the fact? I ask because I think I'll redo the upgrade process again, but with the C&DE attempt performed earlier. Specifically, I'll copy my trusty old S3-original truncated backup image to my new drive, install the drive in my S3, run the C&DE on this non-expanded drive, and, if successful, remove the C&DE'd drive and expand it using the MFSadd and supersize commands. Sound reasonable?


That sounds reasonable, but I'm not clear as to why you want to run CD&E. If you do you'll need to re-pair your cable cards, etc. because CD&E will essentially put you back to a brand new TiVo image.

I guess I'm confused as to what you're trying to accomplish. If you use your original TiVo HDD to image your existing (or even a new drive) using winMFS, the drive will be reformatted/expanded, etc. using your original image. Or is that not what you want to do?


----------



## Ovit311

richsadams said:


> So on the first power-up, every time, TiVo hangs on the "Welcome" screen? I don't think anyone else has had that issue or at least posted about it. Might be the drive, might be something else. Good info though.
> 
> Also that particular drive is too noisy even with the AAM set to 128 then? Is your TiVo in a very quiet setting (bedroom, etc.) or is it unacceptable even in a "normal" situation? Whatever the case, that's also good info. If you do replace it with the same model it would be valuable to know if you happened to receive a faulty drive or if they are all too noisy to use in TiVo. TIA.


That's right, first power-up every time. Took me about 7 hours to figure it out as this is my very first upgrade. It's in a bedroom setting and I can still hear it with an AAM of 128. I should point out the drive runs very hot, too hot to hold.

It may just turn out to be a defective drive, it's going back tomorrow. I noticed (TivoHD) that within the first minute if the green led didn't toggle (off then on) followed by the yellow led toggle (on then off) it needed a quick power toggle (hard boot) to boot properly. The only difference the platters are already spinning?



tincan said:


> Special thanks to *Mr. Broflovski* for his >1TB TiVo HD image. Last night I used it to upgrade a used THD with a 2TB Hitachi Deskstar (HD32000IDK7/7K / HDS722020ALA330). The box now reports 318/2777 hours.


Another user with an identical setup to mine reported success. This time I'll try a WD GP drive.



richsadams said:


> Thanks for that. Then it may be that only WD GP drives manufactured sometime in March and thereafter no longer exhibit the soft reboot issue or whatever TiVo may have done in v11.0g only works on those drives? Ugh. So far it looks like there's no empirical evidence to rely on.
> 
> Hopefully folks that are upgrading will continue to post their WD drive's manufacture dates and whether or not the soft reboot issue continues to be a problem (w/v11.0g) or not. That would require installing (or at least connecting) the upgraded drive to TiVo prior to disabling the Intellipark feature and trying a menu restart to see if it hangs at the "Welcome" screen. It would be great to be able to recommend the WD GP drives manufactured after "X date", but only time and some additional data points will be the key to doing that. TIA TiVo Pioneers!


I already ordered a WD20EVDS. I'll try that drive first without disabling the Intellipark feature. If it works would it still be necessary to monitor the load cycle count? Or just go ahead and disable it to prevent future premature failure?


----------



## richsadams

Ovit311 said:


> That's right, first power-up every time. <snip>


All good info. :up: The WD20EVDS should work well. It's an A/V dedicated drive so about as quiet as they come. Hopefully it'll be quiet enough for your bedroom. If it boots up after a menu restart w/o disabling Intellisync it s/b good going forward. TIA for the additional info when you have it!


----------



## MPSAN

Hi ovit...

Remember to at least load 11.g as that is "supposed" to fix the drive. We are all still trying to confirm that, so once 11.g is loaded (may need hard boot to do it) then see if a soft boot works!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Hi ovit...
> 
> Remember to at least load 11.g as that is "supposed" to fix the drive. We are all still trying to confirm that, so once 11.g is loaded (may need hard boot to do it) then see if a soft boot works!


Good point! :up:


----------



## Mahty

richsadams said:


> That sounds reasonable, but I'm not clear as to why you want to run CD&E. If you do you'll need to re-pair your cable cards, etc. because CD&E will essentially put you back to a brand new TiVo image.
> 
> I guess I'm confused as to what you're trying to accomplish. If you use your original TiVo HDD to image your existing (or even a new drive) using winMFS, the drive will be reformatted/expanded, etc. using your original image. Or is that not what you want to do?


First, an update: Perhaps I was a bit too impatient with the C&DE process. Although the TiVo onscreen C&DE message stated that this process might take "up to an hour," I kind of grew impatient at the 2-hour mark and, after reading some online discussions about similar C&DE "hangs" (e.g., 72 hours and counting!), I pulled the plug to see what would happen with a hard reboot. I found that with such a reboot, my S3 automatically picked up with (or perhaps began anew) the C&DE effort. This was about when I began putting together my aforementioned start-again-from-scratch plan-of-attack, based on the (erroneous) assumption that I might now no longer be able to boot my S3 and avoid the seemingly-hung C&DE attempts. But at about the two-hour mark of the second C&DE attempt, I saw that the S3 had apparently finished clearing and deleting and was waiting for me initiate the Setup process.

So, I guess I sort of answered my original question about whether or not there might be any known issue with the C&DE process operating on expanded drives.

Anyway, I attempted the C&DE on my upgraded S3 drive because I wanted to clean it up before I began the process of copying to it some select recordings from the old drive (via my iMac, TiVo Transfer, and TiVo DeskTop). The S3 drive upgrade was based on an old truncated backup image from years ago that contained outdated season passes, etc. And since I have yet to call Comcast to re-pair the two CableCards with the new drive (I'm currently physically swapping drives for the recording-transfer effort, but still using the old and still-paired S3 drive for day-to-day use for a while longer), I thought that now was the time, if ever, to do a C&DE on the new drive.

But for future reference, I am still wondering if indeed one can perform an after-the-fact MFSadd in order to expand a drive -- similar to an after-the-fact supersizing of a drive.

And thanks, Rich, for your input.


----------



## hmm52

richsadams said:


> I've always been of the mind that the fewer the failure points the better. Have you considered upgrading the internal hard drive (per the instructions on the first post of this FAQ)? If you're comfortable connecting a hard drive to a computer it's really quite easy. A brand new 1TB hard drive can be had for under $75 these days...sometimes less. Put the original hard drive on the shelf as a backup and you're golden. That's the way I would go, but your call of course.
> 
> BTW...that shouldn't be confused with "expert advice". Keep in mind that you get what you pay for here.


Thanks, Rich. Yes, my inclination has been to do just that - 1 TB internal HDD replacement. There are plenty of eSATA and ports of all kinds on my home built desktop so the process shouldn't be too challenging. You have both expertise and a ton of experience on the TCF. I'm still curious about the Seagate DB35, what sort of reputation it created for itself with TiVo users overall. Would you ever consider using it in any present or future plans if you had it laying around?

This doesn't apply much to my current situation but I'd like to be prepared in the event. I assume that pulling any HDD and doing the basic tests with manufacturer's tools wouldn't jeopardize recordings. Correct?


----------



## richsadams

Mahty said:


> First, an update: <snip>


Oh...okay...I think I've got it now. That's some good info. Although you can run Supersize at any time w/o affecting anything else, IIRC you can't expand a drive (run MFSadd) that's already set up. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that was a lesson learned by more than a few people here.

Glad things are back to (sort of) normal. Enjoy!


----------



## richsadams

hmm52 said:


> Thanks, Rich. Yes, my inclination has been to do just that - 1 TB internal HDD replacement. There are plenty of eSATA and ports of all kinds on my home built desktop so the process shouldn't be too challenging. You have both expertise and a ton of experience on the TCF. I'm still curious about the Seagate DB35, what sort of reputation it created for itself with TiVo users overall. Would you ever consider using it in any present or future plans if you had it laying around?
> 
> This doesn't apply much to my current situation but I'd like to be prepared in the event. I assume that pulling any HDD and doing the basic tests with manufacturer's tools wouldn't jeopardize recordings. Correct?


Way back when the hack was discovered that allowed an external hard drive to be added to the Series3 I put a 500GB (enormous at the time) Seagate DB35 in an Antec MX-1 enclosure to increase the recording space on our S3. Worked perfectly...and was it ever quiet. After deciding to upgrade the internal drive I took the DB35 and put it into a PC I had built a while back. I don't use the PC for much, but the DB35 is still running like a champ all these years later. I have to look at the PC's drive activity light to see if it's doing anything it's so quiet, but it works like a charm. (The MX-1 is also still working perfectly as a backup drive enclosure.)

That said, I used to be a huge Seagate fan. Their products were almost bullet-proof. It seems about the time the picked up Maxtor things went south for some reason (maybe they kept the Maxtor QC folks ). Since then they've had more than their share of troubles. I've returned four Seagate drives (for computers, not TiVo) that were either DOA or developed the "click of death" right away. Reviews used to be stellar for them, now they are marginal at best. It's really too bad because they did make a great line of drives. The DB35's may be just fine these days, I've no idea. Now I'm pretty much using WD and the newer Hitachi drives exclusively. But my 500GB DB35 is still humming along.

FWIW although the demand TiVo puts on a hard drive isn't very severe as compared to say an enterprise server, it wouldn't be unheard of for a drive that's running 24/7 to begin to fail after three years or so. The old Series1's and Series2's read and write 24/7 as well and their drives seem to last forever. However the hi-def data throughput an HD unit like the Series3 handles (not to mention broadband content, etc.) is much greater and certainly puts a much higher demand on hard drives.

Most of the "quick test" diagnostic programs including Seagate's Seatools won't do anything to existing data. However, the results aren't really that useful or reliable when it comes to anything more than finding bad sectors. To really diagnose a drive's health you need to run an extended read/write/read diagnostic which generally reads an entire drive then writes zeros to the entire drive and then reads it again. As you can guess, that does indeed remove any data that previously existed. Some diagnostic and repair programs like SpinRite will find and isolate problems, but the program's cost of $100 or thereabouts is a bit steep if all you need to fix is one hard drive.

Hope that helps and happy upgrading!


----------



## hmm52

richsadams said:


> FWIW although the demand TiVo puts on a hard drive isn't very severe as compared to say an enterprise server, it wouldn't be unheard of for a drive that's running 24/7 to begin to fail after three years or so. The old Series1's and Series2's read and write 24/7 as well and their drives seem to last forever. However the hi-def data throughput an HD unit like the Series3 handles (not to mention broadband content, etc.) is much greater and certainly puts a much higher demand on hard drives.
> 
> Most of the "quick test" diagnostic programs including Seagate's Seatools won't do anything to existing data. However, the results aren't really that useful or reliable when it comes to anything more than finding bad sectors. To really diagnose a drive's health you need to run an extended read/write/read diagnostic which generally reads an entire drive then writes zeros to the entire drive and then reads it again. As you can guess, that does indeed remove any data that previously existed. Some diagnostic and repair programs like SpinRite will find and isolate problems, but the program's cost of $100 or thereabouts is a bit steep if all you need to fix is one hard drive.
> 
> Hope that helps and happy upgrading!


Thanks much for your thorough dissertation. It leaves just one remaining question. How far do you go with testing HDDs before putting them into service? The extended read/write/read diagnostic or something short of that?


----------



## Ovit311

MPSAN said:


> Hi ovit...
> 
> Remember to at least load 11.g as that is "supposed" to fix the drive. We are all still trying to confirm that, so once 11.g is loaded (may need hard boot to do it) then see if a soft boot works!


I was thinking of doing it in 4 steps and noting the results, since the drive's manufacturing date you obtain is a random event.

Frist use Mr. B's 11.d image with and without Intellipark disabled, then updating to 11.g and repeating the process. This gives 4 data points with a specific date. For example if the date is later than March and it works (Intellipark not disabled) with 11.d then WD did some updating. Or a date earlier than March that works with 11.g could indicate the Tivo update has a fix. Of necessity is receiving a good drive and not DOA 

I presently have 3 laptops as I'm rebuilding my desktop, so the wdidle3 should work with my bootable usb stick drive. Also have 3 versions of wdidle3 (1.0, 1.3, 1.5) on the stick drive. Not sure if the version makes a difference, but I read somewhere only 1.0 can disable Intellipark, the other 2 versions just extend the idle times.

If I added the 3 wdidle3 versions that would give 12 data points, anyway with the World Cup just over a week away and 64 matches my TivoHD should be smoking 

Ovit311


----------



## richsadams

hmm52 said:


> Thanks much for your thorough dissertation. It leaves just one remaining question. How far do you go with testing HDDs before putting them into service? The extended read/write/read diagnostic or something short of that?


Me? I try to run the extended diagnostic (read/write/read) on every drive before putting into service. There really isn't much in between that and a "quick test". The extended diagnostic can take a while, particularly on larger drives...12+ hours. I leave it run overnight. I've only caught one "bad" drive, but depending on the value of your data it might be worth it.


----------



## richsadams

Ovit311 said:


> I was thinking of doing it in 4 steps and noting the results, since the drive's manufacturing date you obtain is a random event.
> 
> Frist use Mr. B's 11.d image with and without Intellipark disabled, then updating to 11.g and repeating the process. This gives 4 data points with a specific date. For example if the date is later than March and it works (Intellipark not disabled) with 11.d then WD did some updating. Or a date earlier than March that works with 11.g could indicate the Tivo update has a fix. Of necessity is receiving a good drive and not DOA
> 
> I presently have 3 laptops as I'm rebuilding my desktop, so the wdidle3 should work with my bootable usb stick drive. Also have 3 versions of wdidle3 (1.0, 1.3, 1.5) on the stick drive. Not sure if the version makes a difference, but I read somewhere only 1.0 can disable Intellipark, the other 2 versions just extend the idle times.
> 
> If I added the 3 wdidle3 versions that would give 12 data points, anyway with the World Cup just over a week away and 64 matches my TivoHD should be smoking
> 
> Ovit311


Wow! That's certainly going above and beyond the call of TiVo duty! There s/b some sort of award for that kind of dedication! :up: :up: :up:


----------



## yukit

Ovit311 said:


> ...
> I presently have 3 laptops as I'm rebuilding my desktop, so the wdidle3 should work with my bootable usb stick drive. Also have 3 versions of wdidle3 (1.0, 1.3, 1.5) on the stick drive. Not sure if the version makes a difference, but I read somewhere only 1.0 can disable Intellipark, the other 2 versions just extend the idle times.


I recall someone posted earlier that only V1.05 can disable Intellipark, but this may also be firmware version dependent as well.

My data point so far: with stock WD20EARS (Feb build) soft-reboot failed with both 11.0d & 11.0g.

I am having a problem running wdide3 on a laptop with the WD20EARS attached to an eSata dock. Not really sure why. I did change the SATA mode to ATA in BIOS as well. wdidle3 recognized the internal Seagate HD, but not the WD20EARS. WinMFS worked just fine with the same setup. I have to wait till my desktop system is rebuilt before I try wdidle3 on the drive again.

I have a Hitachi 2TB drive in my HDXL unit. I don't think it is much louder than the original WD GP drive (AAM 128). I did experience a couple of hard-boot failure in the last 5 months, but I don't think I ever had soft-reboot gettig stuck.


----------



## MPSAN

Ovit311 said:


> I was thinking of doing it in 4 steps and noting the results, since the drive's manufacturing date you obtain is a random event.
> 
> Frist use Mr. B's 11.d image with and without Intellipark disabled, then updating to 11.g and repeating the process. This gives 4 data points with a specific date. For example if the date is later than March and it works (Intellipark not disabled) with 11.d then WD did some updating. Or a date earlier than March that works with 11.g could indicate the Tivo update has a fix. Of necessity is receiving a good drive and not DOA
> 
> I presently have 3 laptops as I'm rebuilding my desktop, so the wdidle3 should work with my bootable usb stick drive. Also have 3 versions of wdidle3 (1.0, 1.3, 1.5) on the stick drive. Not sure if the version makes a difference, but I read somewhere only 1.0 can disable Intellipark, the other 2 versions just extend the idle times.
> 
> If I added the 3 wdidle3 versions that would give 12 data points, anyway with the World Cup just over a week away and 64 matches my TivoHD should be smoking
> 
> Ovit311


Great...I hope it all works and we will all be looking for your data.


----------



## Ovit311

yukit said:


> I recall someone posted earlier that only V1.05 can disable Intellipark, but this may also be firmware version dependent as well.
> 
> My data point so far: with stock WD20EARS (Feb build) soft-reboot failed with both 11.0d & 11.0g.
> 
> I am having a problem running wdide3 on a laptop with the WD20EARS attached to an eSata dock. Not really sure why. I did change the SATA mode to ATA in BIOS as well. wdidle3 recognized the internal Seagate HD, but not the WD20EARS. WinMFS worked just fine with the same setup. I have to wait till my desktop system is rebuilt before I try wdidle3 on the drive again.
> 
> I have a Hitachi 2TB drive in my HDXL unit. I don't think it is much louder than the original WD GP drive (AAM 128). I did experience a couple of hard-boot failure in the last 5 months, but I don't think I ever had soft-reboot gettig stuck.


Great info thanks for posting. My main obstacle at first in buying a WD GP drive was wdidle3 and my laptops, so I opted for the Hitachi 2TB and AAM. Some web browsing showed others using bootable dos usb sticks with wdidle3 success. I created one and used the /R option to read my laptop WD2500BEVS drive with idle timer set to 8 seconds. Shouldn't be a problem with my syba usb-sata adapter until my desktop is ready to go.

Ovit311


----------



## rainbow

This 1T HD is selling right now via TigerDirect for $69.99 less $30 eventual rebate. 

I did not see this one listed on the preferred internal drive expansion list. Do you think this would be a -pass- or a -buy-?

What do you think? 

The only remarks I found for this drive here was that is was noisy, but that post was dated 2009.


----------



## sasmps

I need some guidence from the expets in this forum 

We have a Tivo HD with disk stutter and freezing, and the assumption is the disk is on the way out. This configuration also has an esata expansion drive (not sure which disk is going bad, the internal drive or the estata). 

If we decide to replace the internal disk with a new 1TB drive, what is the process to unmarry the external disk (saving what we can of the shows and content)? Can we clean off content to the point that what is left will fit on the interhal disk, then unmarry the external drive, then follow the process to copy the old internal disk to the new 1TB disk?


----------



## richsadams

rainbow said:


> This 1T HD is selling right now via TigerDirect for $69.99 less $30 eventual rebate.
> 
> I did not see this one listed on the preferred internal drive expansion list. Do you think this would be a -pass- or a -buy-?
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> The only remarks I found for this drive here was that is was noisy, but that post was dated 2009.


The 2009 quote still applies, by comparison it's a very noisy drive. The specs list the seek level at .3dB and manufacturers are notorious for "under stating". By comparison the WD GP drives are around .22dB to .25dB.

FWIW here are two drives folks are using successfully that happen to be on sale at MWave.com (requires free membership):

HITACHI 7K1000.C - $59.99 w/free shipping (use coupon HITACHI102). It's quiet out of the box but AAM can be tuned down to 128 to make even more quiet.

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/skusearch_v3.asp?scriteria=AA78001

WD WD10EARS -$69.99 (May require disabling the Intellipark feature).

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/skusearch_v3.asp?scriteria=AA78009

Happy upgrading!


----------



## ThreeSoFar

sasmps said:


> I need some guidence from the expets in this forum
> 
> We have a Tivo HD with disk stutter and freezing, and the assumption is the disk is on the way out. This configuration also has an esata expansion drive (not sure which disk is going bad, the internal drive or the estata).
> 
> If we decide to replace the internal disk with a new 1TB drive, what is the process to unmarry the external disk (saving what we can of the shows and content)? Can we clean off content to the point that what is left will fit on the interhal disk, then unmarry the external drive, then follow the process to copy the old internal disk to the new 1TB disk?


IIRC (i.e., I may be wrong), there is no way to preserve shows here and unmarry the drives.

You can safely remove and perform diagnostics on both drives to try to figure out which is going.

I see two possible positive outcomes for your shows:

 If it works well enough to transfer to a PC or to another TiVo and you do so, you can transfer them back once this system is healthy again.
 If you use dd to backup the current internal drive to another (at least as big), and if after doing so the new drive plus old external works, and works better, then you are done. If the problem pereists, put original back in and try a dd copy of the esata drive instead. There may or may not be a way to expand the new drive to use any space not yet used (say if your dd source/dying drive is 500G and your destination is a 1TB drive). Regardless, I'd recommend trying it first in the original size to see if the problem goes away or not.


----------



## richsadams

sasmps said:


> I need some guidence from the expets in this forum
> 
> We have a Tivo HD with disk stutter and freezing, and the assumption is the disk is on the way out. This configuration also has an esata expansion drive (not sure which disk is going bad, the internal drive or the estata).
> 
> If we decide to replace the internal disk with a new 1TB drive, what is the process to unmarry the external disk (saving what we can of the shows and content)? Can we clean off content to the point that what is left will fit on the interhal disk, then unmarry the external drive, then follow the process to copy the old internal disk to the new 1TB disk?


Sorry to hear that your TiVo is misbehaving. There's a good chance that the issue is with your external hard drive. Have a look at these troubleshooting suggestions and options for saving your recordings...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7553444#post7553444

Upgrading the internal hard drive is a good idea (one less fail point) and fairly easy if you follow the directions on the first post of this FAQ.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


----------



## sasmps

richsadams said:


> Sorry to hear that your TiVo is misbehaving. There's a good chance that the issue is with your external hard drive. Have a look at these troubleshooting suggestions and options for saving your recordings...
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7553444#post7553444
> 
> Upgrading the internal hard drive is a good idea (one less fail point) and fairly easy if you follow the directions on the first post of this FAQ.
> 
> Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


Thanks for the quick reply  I am helping a friend that has the external drive config, whichI do not have experience with.

Rich, can you point me to the link that documents the disk test (I need to verify these have been run). Also if there are any specifics on how to seperatly test the internal vs external disk, that would be helpfull.

I am pretty sure they are committed to replacing the internal drive anyway. It would be nice to know that the internal drive was in decent shape before I attempt to back it up on the new drive.


----------



## richsadams

sasmps said:


> Thanks for the quick reply  I am helping a friend that has the external drive config, whichI do not have experience with.
> 
> Rich, can you point me to the link that documents the disk test (I need to verify these have been run). Also if there are any specifics on how to seperatly test the internal vs external disk, that would be helpfull.
> 
> I am pretty sure they are committed to replacing the internal drive anyway. It would be nice to know that the internal drive was in decent shape before I attempt to back it up on the new drive.


Glad to help. Here's a link to TiVo's built-in diagnostics called "Kickstarts"...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

KS54 is a standard SMART drive test. It's not completely reliable but will usually let you know if one or the other drive has problems. As ThreeSoFar mentions, the only reliable way to check drive health is to pull it, connect it to a computer and run a diagnostic like Western Digital's Lifeguard. Unfortunately if you run the extended read/write/read test all of the data on the drive will be wiped out.

If TiVo boots up properly the internal drive's boot partition is good so you'd be safe using it to image a replacement drive.


----------



## MPSAN

Newegg has the WD10EARS for $59.99 with FREE shipping. Includes $10 off with code EMCYTYP39


----------



## ThreeSoFar

MPSAN said:


> Newegg has the WD10EARS for $59.99 with FREE shipping. Includes $10 off with code EMCYTYP39


Reviews on the newegg site are saying it is NOT GOOD FOR TIVO UPGRADES.

ETA: Which I believe may be wrong based on content here.


----------



## MPSAN

ThreeSoFar said:


> Reviews on the newegg site are saying it is NOT GOOD FOR TIVO UPGRADES.
> 
> ETA: Which I believe may be wrong based on content here.


That is why I posted. It seems that people here have used that drive if ONLY 157 hours is enough!


----------



## richsadams

ThreeSoFar said:


> Reviews on the newegg site are saying it is NOT GOOD FOR TIVO UPGRADES.


Really? I may have not looked far enough (193 reviews) but I scanned the first 10 pages of the Newegg reviews for the WD10EARS and couldn't find any reference to TiVo.  Page 8 of the reviews for the WD20EARS made an incorrect reference to TiVo and the new sector formatting these drives use. (Which has no effect on TiVo BTW)

In any case, the WD10EARS is being used successfully in TiVo by a number of TCF members. Another nice find MPSAN!


----------



## Ovit311

yukit said:


> I recall someone posted earlier that only V1.05 can disable Intellipark, but this may also be firmware version dependent as well.
> 
> My data point so far: with stock WD20EARS (Feb build) soft-reboot failed with both 11.0d & 11.0g.
> 
> I am having a problem running wdide3 on a laptop with the WD20EARS attached to an eSata dock. Not really sure why. I did change the SATA mode to ATA in BIOS as well. wdidle3 recognized the internal Seagate HD, but not the WD20EARS. WinMFS worked just fine with the same setup. I have to wait till my desktop system is rebuilt before I try wdidle3 on the drive again.
> 
> I have a Hitachi 2TB drive in my HDXL unit. I don't think it is much louder than the original WD GP drive (AAM 128). I did experience a couple of hard-boot failure in the last 5 months, but I don't think I ever had soft-reboot gettig stuck.


Received my WD 2TB WD20EVDS on Thurday, didn't look new with some scratches on the surface. Anyway couldn't get wdidle3 or LLC to work via laptops, so test now modify later.

Drive is dated March 9,2010. Used 11.0d image, drive would not soft boot, had to do a cold boot to continue everytime. Then updated to 11.0g and drive works perfectly, did 3 soft boots no problems. Tivo update fixed something.

Today I borrowed a desktop to observe the drive's parameters. All three wdidle3 versions (1.00, 1.03, 1.05) showed idle timer set to 8 seconds (drive is quiet no clicking sounds). Version 1.03 cannot disable, it only extends idle time to about 62 minutes. Versions 1.00 and 1.05 disable, when read back (/R) all 3 versions state timer is disabled.

Next I had to figure out how to read LLC in dos. Finally did with GParted Live CD and smartctl commands. The drive's LLC is 63 with about 2 days usage (not sure what initial value was). I disabled it and will observe over the coming days.

So untouched drive from WD (WD20EVDS) with idle timer set to 8 seconds, has usual soft boot issues but Tivo update fixes it. Drive runs quiet, cool with no clicking sounds. More work required for wdidle3 and LLC experiments, I'll need to get a new desktop first.

Ovit311


----------



## richsadams

Ovit311 said:


> Received my WD 2TB WD20EVDS on Thurday<snip>


Excellent feedback! :up: I can't remember if you said, but where did you get your WD20EVDS hard drive?

So now I'm wondering if it's a combination of drives and TiVo's update? IIRC some folks reported that WD drives manufactured prior to March w/TiVo v11.0g still had the soft reboot issue. There's also the question about which drive (EVDS, EARS, EADS, EAVS, 1TB, 2TB, etc.) are good to go or not. More data is needed I suppose.

However it sounds like it's almost safe to say that WD GP drives manufactured After March 9th are free of the soft reboot issue after TiVo has updated to v11.0g. That's a mouthful.

Additonal feedback from future upgraders would be greatly appreciated. TIA!


----------



## Ovit311

Got this drive from Amazon which I find to be pretty good.


----------



## richsadams

Ovit311 said:


> Got this drive from Amazon which I find to be pretty good.


Nice, thanks. Amazon is great. I had to return a couple of Seagate 1.5TB drives a while back. One was DOA and the other had the "click of death". They took them back for credit, no problem...even paid for the shipping. Now that I think about it, we spend a lot of money with Amazon.


----------



## shrike4242

richsadams said:


> Excellent feedback! :up: I can't remember if you said, but where did you get your WD20EVDS hard drive?
> 
> So now I'm wondering if it's a combination of drives and TiVo's update? IIRC some folks reported that WD drives manufactured prior to March w/TiVo v11.0g still had the soft reboot issue. There's also the question about which drive (EVDS, EARS, EADS, EAVS, 1TB, 2TB, etc.) are good to go or not. More data is needed I suppose.
> 
> However it sounds like it's almost safe to say that WD GP drives manufactured After March 9th are free of the soft reboot issue after TiVo has updated to v11.0g. That's a mouthful.
> 
> Additonal feedback from future upgraders would be greatly appreciated. TIA!


Well, I went through the drive upgrade today with the two BlacX hard drive docks (one from NewEgg and one from Amazon, each with a $10 rebate, though the Amazon rebate is dead), the 1TB EVDS ($89.99 from Amazon, where I had a bunch of GCs). Followed the directions to the letter and it worked without a single issue. Only irritant to the process was cracking open the Tivo and cleaning it out as there was a ton of dust inside of it.

Supersized the drive at the end of the copy, so I ended up with 157hrs HD / 1367 hours SD.

The drive's manufacture date was 04/27/10, and it didn't have the soft reboot issue, as I soft rebooted it after the initial power-on without any issues. System already had 11.0g on it previously.

I'd certainly recommend the BlacX for the work as a drive dock/enclosure, since there's a model with USB 2.0 and eSATA and worked with no issue for both drives. There was a note on the box that it "works with drives up to 1TB", so there might be an issue with drives >1TB. As I was using a Tivo HD and only have those and a Tivo S3, a drive bigger than 1TB wasn't a worry for me.

Again, I have to put in a double thumbs-up for rich's instructions for doing the drive upgrade. It was completely painless and I was very impressed with them when going through the process.


----------



## richsadams

shrike4242 said:


> Well, I went through the drive upgrade today with the two BlacX hard drive docks...
> 
> The drive's manufacture date was 04/27/10, and it didn't have the soft reboot issue, as I soft rebooted it after the initial power-on without any issues. System already had 11.0g on it previously.


Congratulations on your "new" TiVo! :up: That's very good news indeed. It sounds more a more like the newer WD hard drives (manufactured after March 9th) no longer have the Intellipark soft reboot issue. Sweet if that's the case.

Thanks for the kind words, but all of the credit goes to bkdtv who wrote and manages the first post of this FAQ and Spike who actually created winMFS and MFSLive. I just happen to be an interested hanger-on. 

Enjoy!


----------



## shrike4242

richsadams said:


> Congratulations on your "new" TiVo! :up: That's very good news indeed. It sounds more a more like the newer WD hard drives (manufactured after March 9th) no longer have the Intellipark soft reboot issue. Sweet if that's the case.
> 
> Thanks for the kind words, but all of the credit goes to bkdtv who wrote and manages the first post of this FAQ and Spike who actually created winMFS and MFSLive. I just happen to be an interested hanger-on.
> 
> Enjoy!


I ran through a hard boot and a soft boot and never saw any issue, so I'd think at least for the 1TB EVDS drive made after March 9th, it's not an issue. Hopefully it's the same situation for the other drives, and we'll see more of that as time goes on.

Then I also offer my thanks to bkdtv for the hard work on the OP of the thread and Spike for winMFS. Wouldn't have possible with those people's hard effort.

Though, rich, don't sell yourself short, you're always helping out people in this thread, so you certainly get a :up: for that hard work.


----------



## yukit

Ovit311 said:


> yukit said:
> 
> 
> 
> I recall someone posted earlier that only V1.05 can disable Intellipark, but this may also be firmware version dependent as well.
> 
> My data point so far: with stock WD20EARS (Feb build) soft-reboot failed with both 11.0d & 11.0g.
> 
> I am having a problem running wdide3 on a laptop with the WD20EARS attached to an eSata dock. Not really sure why. I did change the SATA mode to ATA in BIOS as well. wdidle3 recognized the internal Seagate HD, but not the WD20EARS. WinMFS worked just fine with the same setup. I have to wait till my desktop system is rebuilt before I try wdidle3 on the drive again.
> 
> I have a Hitachi 2TB drive in my HDXL unit. I don't think it is much louder than the original WD GP drive (AAM 128). I did experience a couple of hard-boot failure in the last 5 months, but I don't think I ever had soft-reboot gettig stuck.
> 
> 
> 
> Great info thanks for posting. My main obstacle at first in buying a WD GP drive was wdidle3 and my laptops, so I opted for the Hitachi 2TB and AAM. Some web browsing showed others using bootable dos usb sticks with wdidle3 success. I created one and used the /R option to read my laptop WD2500BEVS drive with idle timer set to 8 seconds. Shouldn't be a problem with my syba usb-sata adapter until my desktop is ready to go.
> 
> Ovit311
Click to expand...

Finally fixed my desktop system by swapping out the MB, managed to run wdidle3 on the WD20EARS to disable Intellipark. As expected, the idle timer was originally set to 8 secs.

The good news is, soft-reboot now works :up:

It will probably be next weekend to put this drive in production. I get to enter all season pass & wish list entries manually. Joy


----------



## shrike4242

I guess since the drive swap went so well this past weekend, I guess I may need to be doing more of the same a second time around. 

This morning, the Tivo HD I have in my kitchen was behaving in the same way as the one I just did the drive swap on. Boots up to the main screen, then 2-3 minutes later, boom, black screen with scratchy audio. 

I tried to get it to do a K57 this morning and it didn't seem like it wanted to cooperate, so I managed to get it into a K58 testing scenario and started on the "overnight test" on it. 

The odd thing is that I'm not seeing the reboot cycle for the 11.0g update that happened with the prior unit. 

My guess is that it'll be another DVR expander that's gone funny and once I divorce the unit, the Tivo will work without any issue. This one has a Squaretrade warranty on it, so it'll go back to them if it's a funny unit.


----------



## richsadams

yukit said:


> Finally fixed my desktop system by swapping out the MB, managed to run wdidle3 on the WD20EARS to disable Intellipark. As expected, the idle timer was originally set to 8 secs.
> 
> The good news is, soft-reboot now works :up:
> 
> It will probably be next weekend to put this drive in production. I get to enter all season pass & wish list entries manually. Joy


Glad to hear that you're back in business. In the future (if needed) you can sign up for Guru Guide or Kids Zone and TiVo will repopulate your SP's automatically.


----------



## yukit

richsadams said:


> In the future (if needed) you can sign up for Guru Guide or Kids Zone and TiVo will repopulate your SP's automatically.


Yeah, forgot about that unsupported feature. Good tip. It is not too late yet.


----------



## sasmps

Any reason why I cant use a backup drive to reimage a new drive for a different TIVO HD? How is that different from using Instacake?


----------



## Jonathan_S

sasmps said:


> Any reason why I cant use a backup drive to reimage a new drive for a different TIVO HD? How is that different from using Instacake?


You'll need to do a Clear and Delete the new drive after installing it; but aside from that any TiVo HD drive image can be used in another TiVo HD.

(Until you C&D the new drive it'll throw an error and refuse to work because it's connected to a different motherboard)


----------



## sasmps

Jonathan_S said:


> You'll need to do a Clear and Delete the new drive after installing it; but aside from that any TiVo HD drive image can be used in another TiVo HD.
> 
> (Until you C&D the new drive it'll throw an error and refuse to work because it's connected to a different motherboard)


Thanks! In this case, the new drive has never been touched, and I plan to use WinFMS to copy it over, then expand. I am not familiar with Clear and Delete.. So this is done after you install the new expanded drive? What does clear and delete do? Click stream instructions?


----------



## Jonathan_S

sasmps said:


> Thanks! In this case, the new drive has never been touched, and I plan to use WinFMS to copy it over, then expand. I am not familiar with Clear and Delete.. So this is done after you install the new expanded drive? What does clear and delete do? Click stream instructions?


Clear & Delete is done on the new TiVo, after installing the drive, to return it to factory default*. (It's in the User's Guide on page 65 - Restart or Reset System)

So:
Use WinMFS to copy & expand (then presumably supersize)
Install new drive into new TiVo.
Boot Up new TiVo
Go to the Messages & Settings menu
Go to the Restart or Reset System submenu
Select Clear & Delete Everything

Note: How long a C&D takes depends on how much stuff is on the drive. It can take up to several hours. 
Since you can't use the WinFMS to move records from your old TiVo to the new one I'd recommend doing the truncated copy (copies TiVo OS & App but not recordings) which will take less time in WinFMS and less time to C&D in the new TiVo.

*Returning to factory default has the side affect to resetting the drive image to work correctly with the current motherboard


----------



## sasmps

Jonathan_S said:


> Clear & Delete is done on the new TiVo, after installing the drive, to return it to factory default*. (It's in the User's Guide on page 65 - Restart or Reset System)
> 
> So:
> Use WinMFS to copy & expand (then presumably supersize)
> Install new drive into new TiVo.
> Boot Up new TiVo
> Go to the Messages & Settings menu
> Go to the Restart or Reset System submenu
> Select Clear & Delete Everything
> 
> Note: How long a C&D takes depends on how much stuff is on the drive. It can take up to several hours.
> Since you can't use the WinFMS to move records from your old TiVo to the new one I'd recommend doing the truncated copy (copies TiVo OS & App but not recordings) which will take less time in WinFMS and less time to C&D in the new TiVo.
> 
> *Returning to factory default has the side affect to resetting the drive image to work correctly with the current motherboard


Nice! Thank you!


----------



## sasmps

Another question for the forum :

The Tivo Series III I am working on, and plan to replace the internal drive tonight.....

It appears the unit was able to come up after the external eSata drive was removed. Suggesting the internal drive is mostly operational. Here is my question:

Using the WinMFS utility to copy the old disk to the new disk, what happens when WinMFS runs into bad blocks on the old drive?


----------



## PeterP

I just installed a WD10EARS in a Tivo HD. I used WinMFS to copy the old 160GB drive and "Wdidle3 /d" to disable intellipark. It booted up without a hitch and works perfectly.

I have had another WD Green drive in a different Tivo HD for 1.5 years now. It hangs on reboot. I'll have to try disabling the idle timer. Other than that it works great.


----------



## yukit

PeterP said:


> I just installed a WD10EARS in a Tivo HD. I used WinMFS to copy the old 160GB drive and "Wdidle3 /d" to disable intellipark. It booted up without a hitch and works perfectly.


Did you happen to check the build date of your EARS drive?
I am curious to find out if post-March drives soft-reboot would work fine with 11.0g Tivo software.


----------



## richsadams

sasmps said:


> Another question for the forum :
> 
> The Tivo Series III I am working on, and plan to replace the internal drive tonight.....
> 
> It appears the unit was able to come up after the external eSata drive was removed. Suggesting the internal drive is mostly operational. Here is my question:
> 
> Using the WinMFS utility to copy the old disk to the new disk, what happens when WinMFS runs into bad blocks on the old drive?


If TIVO is booting up properly the boot partition is not corrupted so you should be in good shape. winMFS will only need the OS image...the rest of the original drive won't be accessed.


----------



## sasmps

richsadams said:


> If TIVO is booting up properly the boot partition is not corrupted so you should be in good shape. winMFS will only need the OS image...the rest of the original drive won't be accessed.


Thanks! the drive upgrade was a success! I also ran into a HDMI port issue, a pin was bent and as luck would have it, I was able to streighten it out. I dont suppose you have any advice on how to replace the HDMI port?


----------



## bmgoodman

FWIW, my Tivo HD with 1 TB drive (WD10EVCS) got into a boot loop, so I bought a new WD10EVDS and re-imaged it from the original 160 GB drive. The new drive was manufactured in April 2010. Based on a comment from Rich S Adams, I did NOT run wdidle. The original drive already had Tivo software 11g from being used this past week.

I have now tested soft reboots several times and I'm seeing NO issues. :up:


----------



## reubanks

I picked up a slightly used Tivo HD a couple of days ago and promptly installed a nice new 2TB using the Mr.B image. It's working like a champ in "most" respects. The only issue is that while I can see all of the other Tivos in the house and they can see the new one, the new one says that there are no videos on any of my other Tivos!

I verified that the MAK was correct and that it came up as Account in good standing. (I'll put it on Lifetime or sell it before the 30 days are up) It has been around 24 hours, so I will check again and if it still has the issue I will C&DE to see if it will work that way.

The only reason I bought it was to allow me to transfer videos from my other dual drive THD so I can convert it to a single drive. After that I'll decide if I want to replace the garage S2 or let it go.

EDIT: All is good now. I guess it just needed to settle into it's new home.


----------



## PanMann

Hello,

I have a question. I have been lurking here for some time. I have a Tivo series 3. I have had it since it came out (original drive). It just recently started rebooting and hanging at the welcome screen until I unplug it and plug it back in. I ran kickstart 54 and I get 'fails' on the smart tests (fail 4 on a few of them). I assume the drive may be going out. The Tivo will boot but up and run after it has been on a while it restarts and hangs.

So the question is: I bought a WD5000AVDS drive and I used winmfs per the faq to copy only the tivo software (truncated). I then used winmfs to copy the file to the WD5000AVDS and the tivo will not get past the welcome screen. Can I use a WD5000AVDS in the series 3? Do I need to do the intellipark fix?

Thanks


----------



## richsadams

bmgoodman said:


> FWIW, my Tivo HD with 1 TB drive (WD10EVCS) got into a boot loop, so I bought a new WD10EVDS and re-imaged it from the original 160 GB drive. The new drive was manufactured in April 2010. Based on a comment from Rich S Adams, I did NOT run wdidle. The original drive already had Tivo software 11g from being used this past week.
> 
> I have now tested soft reboots several times and I'm seeing NO issues. :up:


Sweet! Thanks for the valuable feedback! :up:


----------



## richsadams

PanMann said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have a question. I have been lurking here for some time. I have a Tivo series 3. I have had it since it came out (original drive). It just recently started rebooting and hanging at the welcome screen until I unplug it and plug it back in. I ran kickstart 54 and I get 'fails' on the smart tests (fail 4 on a few of them). I assume the drive may be going out. The Tivo will boot but up and run after it has been on a while it restarts and hangs.
> 
> So the question is: I bought a WD5000AVDS drive and I used winmfs per the faq to copy only the tivo software (truncated). I then used winmfs to copy the file to the WD5000AVDS and the tivo will not get past the welcome screen. Can I use a WD5000AVDS in the series 3? Do I need to do the intellipark fix?
> 
> Thanks


Hmmm...that's a dedicated A/V drive so it should work fine. Intellipark is only an issue during soft reboots/menu restarts. Even drives with that issue will work with a hard reboot (unplugging TiVo and plugging it back in).

If TiVo won't get past the "Welcome" screen it means that the motherboard cannot communicate with the hard drive. Don't take this the wrong way, but did you remember to connect the hard drive back up after installing it in TiVo? Can you hear the hard drive spin up when you plug TiVo in? Just checking because it's happened before. 

Otherwise it sounds like there may have been an issue when it was imaged. If your original drive is failing (and it does indeed sound like it is) there may be some corruption in the boot partition. Have you tried starting from scratch again? If it continues to be a problem you may have to use a fresh image (Instant Cake) for your new hard drive. But I'd give it another go first.

Hope that helps and best of luck!


----------



## PanMann

richsadams,

Thanks for the response. Everything on the drive was connected and it would not get past the "Welcome" screen. My fear was that the capture from the previous drive was not correct due to the drive errors. It turns out the running 'wdidle3 /d' corrected the issue. The Tivo will now hard and soft boot. Oh, and the drives' manufacture date is April 2010.

Thanks again.


----------



## richsadams

PanMann said:


> richsadams,
> 
> Thanks for the response. Everything on the drive was connected and it would not get past the "Welcome" screen. My fear was that the capture from the previous drive was not correct due to the drive errors. It turns out the running 'wdidle3 /d' corrected the issue. The Tivo will now hard and soft boot. Oh, and the drives' manufacture date is April 2010.
> 
> Thanks again.


Thanks for the info. :up: IIRC that's the second report of a WD GP drive that wouldn't boot up (at all) until the Intellipark feature was disabled. 

Enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## OC7

richsadams said:


> IIRC that's the second report of a WD GP drive that wouldn't boot up (at all) until the Intellipark feature was disabled.


The same thing happened to me. I recently upgraded an S3 from a stock drive and 500 GB external (which I divorced prior to the upgrade) to a WD15EARS 1.5 TB drive (manufactured March 25, 2010). I started from Tivo version 11.g and had a TA attached.

Since I was starting with version 11.g, I decided to try the upgrade without applying the wdidle fix so that I could help determine if that version fixed the Intellipark issue for soft reboots. I was never able to test the soft reboot because I got stuck at the Welcome screen on the initial bootup (I tried the hard bootup a couple more times to no avail). I then applied the wdidle fix and the Tivo booted up fine. The soft reboot works also.

I did the drive upgrade about 10 days ago. I waited to report my findings here because the Tivo was acting strange initially after the upgrade and I thought that maybe I had a bad drive. For the first three or four hours after the upgrade, the Tivo would occasionally either freeze up, not respond to remote commands, or reboot itself. Since that time, over the past 10 days, the Tivo has been relatively stable. There have been a couple of 3 or 4 second freezeups and one random reboot.

Since I occasionally had similar issues prior to the upgrade, I doubt that there is a problem with the new hard drive. Today, I removed the TA to see if that will eliminate any more problems.

Many thanks to all the contributors to this thread and FAQ, especially bkdtv, spike, drey, and richsadams.


----------



## richsadams

OC7 said:


> The same thing happened to me. I recently upgraded an S3 from a stock drive and 500 GB external (which I divorced prior to the upgrade) to a WD15EARS 1.5 TB drive (manufactured March 25, 2010). I started from Tivo version 11.g and had a TA attached.


Good data points. Thanks for that. :up:

So this still remains a curious situation. I hope things smooth out so we can give an unqualified recommendation to the WD GO drives once again.


----------



## yukit

OC7 said:


> The same thing happened to me. I recently upgraded an S3 from a stock drive and 500 GB external (which I divorced prior to the upgrade) to a WD15EARS 1.5 TB drive (manufactured March 25, 2010). I started from Tivo version 11.g and had a TA attached.
> 
> Since I was starting with version 11.g, I decided to try the upgrade without applying the wdidle fix so that I could help determine if that version fixed the Intellipark issue for soft reboots. I was never able to test the soft reboot because I got stuck at the Welcome screen on the initial bootup (I tried the hard bootup a couple more times to no avail). I then applied the wdidle fix and the Tivo booted up fine. The soft reboot works also.
> 
> ...


This is an interesting data point, indeed.
With my WD20EARS (Feb build), I never had cold boot problems even with Intellipark enabled (default of 8 secs)
This is also 11.0g software, but TivoHD host.


----------



## richsadams

yukit said:


> This is an interesting data point, indeed.
> With my WD20EARS (Feb build), I never had cold boot problems even with Intellipark enabled (default of 8 secs)
> This is also 11.0g software, but TivoHD host.


Leads me to believe WD is still trying to modify and/or improve the concept. So it's a bit hit and miss depending on the drive model, manufacture date, etc.


----------



## abk

MPSAN said:


> Newegg has the WD10EARS for $59.99 with FREE shipping. Includes $10 off with code EMCYTYP39


Installed WD10EARS today. No soft reboot so had to disable intellipark. Tivo HD reports 200 hrs HD and 400 hrs SD. I thought that the SD figure was meant to be much higher? Is there something wrong with this figure?

cheers
abk


----------



## richsadams

abk said:


> Installed WD10EARS today. No soft reboot so had to disable intellipark. Tivo HD reports 200 hrs HD and 400 hrs SD. I thought that the SD figure was meant to be much higher? Is there something wrong with this figure?
> 
> cheers
> abk


Hmmm...there's something wrong with both figures (unless you have an external drive of some sort connected). It s/b reporting 157 HD and 1367 SD hours. You might want to reconnect it to your computer and run Supersize (see the FAQ instructions - doing so won't affect anything else).

If you do open it back up can you post the drive's manufacture date? TIA.

Let us know how it goes.


----------



## bmgoodman

abk said:


> Installed WD10EARS today. No soft reboot so had to disable intellipark. Tivo HD reports 200 hrs HD and 400 hrs SD. I thought that the SD figure was meant to be much higher? Is there something wrong with this figure?
> 
> cheers
> abk


I'd be *really* concerned about those figures. How on earth could SD hours only be double the HD hours? The "EARS" drives are the ones with the new 4K sector size, IIRC. Isn't there a jumper to set to force it to 512K sectors? I've done no research on this, but I've never seen SD and HD hours so close on ANY Tivo, stock or expanded.

IF you do put the drive back into your computer, you could copy your MFSInfo and paste it here. Maybe somebody can spot if there's an issue you need to worry about.


----------



## lrhorer

Well, it's finally almost here. Both Seagate and TDK have announced they will be delivering 3T hard drives by the end of the year. TDK has committed to a Novermber timeline. Seagate hasn't given a month or day. Windows XP users won't be able to make much use of the drive, and it may be troublesome (at first, anyway) for Vista or Win7. Those of us with Linux systems or RAID arrays should be able to make good use of it.


----------



## reubanks

lrhorer said:


> Well, it's finally almost here. Both Seagate and TDK have announced they will be delivering 3T hard drives by the end of the year. TDK has committed to a Novermber timeline. Seagate hasn't given a month or day. Windows XP users won't be able to make much use of the drive, and it may be troublesome (at first, anyway) for Vista or Win7. Those of us with Linux systems or RAID arrays should be able to make good use of it.


Here I am in the middle of upgrading my last THD to 2TB internal and you have to go and tell me this...

AAARRRGGGHHH!!!

Oh well...


----------



## ThAbtO

reubanks said:


> Here I am in the middle of upgrading my last THD to 2TB internal and you have to go and tell me this...
> 
> AAARRRGGGHHH!!!
> 
> Oh well...


Guess its time to shake and bake Tivo again, huh? Only this time don't forget the breaded coating.


----------



## lrhorer

reubanks said:


> Here I am in the middle of upgrading my last THD to 2TB internal and you have to go and tell me this...
> 
> AAARRRGGGHHH!!!


Sometimes my evil streak shows... 



reubanks said:


> Oh well...


I'm almost ashamed to admit it, but my THD only has a 500G drive in it. My S3 TiVos are another matter, though.


----------



## richsadams

lrhorer said:


> Well, it's finally almost here. Both Seagate and TDK have announced they will be delivering 3T hard drives by the end of the year. TDK has committed to a Novermber timeline. Seagate hasn't given a month or day. Windows XP users won't be able to make much use of the drive, and it may be troublesome (at first, anyway) for Vista or Win7. Those of us with Linux systems or RAID arrays should be able to make good use of it.


They'll work right out of the box with Macs as well. :up:

Not so sure we're ready for 3TB TiVo's though.


----------



## richsadams

bmgoodman said:


> I'd be *really* concerned about those figures. How on earth could SD hours only be double the HD hours? The "EARS" drives are the ones with the new 4K sector size, IIRC. Isn't there a jumper to set to force it to 512K sectors? I've done no research on this, but I've never seen SD and HD hours so close on ANY Tivo, stock or expanded.
> 
> IF you do put the drive back into your computer, you could copy your MFSInfo and paste it here. Maybe somebody can spot if there's an issue you need to worry about.


Well, I wouldn't be _too_ concerned. I mean, the possibility of "breaking" something doesn't exist. There have been reports of goofed up partition expansions over the years. 200 hours of HD is a new one though...it's actually not possible with a 1TB hard drive. The lower SD hours have shown up now and then though.

The 4K sectors on the new EARS series do not have any affect on TiVo. (No jumper settings need to be considered). There are a number of folks here using that exact drive successfully. There's always a possibility that something is wrong with the drive, but it's more likely something didn't go right during the image process.

The OP may just need to start from scratch using the original hard drive once more.


----------



## hmm52

I'm posting my day's experience in case there's a lesson to be learned for anybody else. *bkdtv* did a great job of mapping various upgrade scenarios in the first page FAQs. Unfortunately there are those who will do a cursory read, attempt methods not certain to be supported, allow 30 minutes total for the job, and be working with a cat trying to jump alternately on shoulders and into an exposed S3 and desktop. Yours truly.

The attempt was to copy recordings 2 to 1 from an original S3 HDD with external HDD to a recent WD10EVDS (4/27/10) using WinMFS. This failed in some fashion, I don't remember, maybe the cat does. After thrashing around awhile I resorted to InstantCake as I didn't have a backup file of a properly divorced internal drive. Using this on a recently buillt desktop with only SATA optical drives required more patience than I offered (mounting/identifying the SATA CDROM) so an older P4 2.8C with PATA CDROM and just two SATA ports was used for InstantCake first on the WD10EVDS (failure) then on an intermediate WD 640GB HDD.

The failures and successes are as follows: "failure" meaning no boot whatsoever.

failure - InstantCake imaged WD10EVDS 9.2a software
success - " " WD Blue Caviar 640GB 9.2 software
failure - WinMFS copy of 640GB on WD10EVDS 11.0g software
success - the above after running wdidle3.exe on the drive

This time I did make backup files for both drives then mfs added a Seagate 750GB certified repaired HDD (warranty exchange) to the WD10 as I don't trust it enough to put into a desktop but wanted to utilize it somewhere. Hard and soft boots are no problem; stable overall; 278 HD hours showing - in the ballpark, I guess. With the relatively recent build date of the WD10 and running 11.0g software, I didn't expect to have to disable the Intellipark feature just to get any boot. Without applying wdidle3.exe however, I'd be dead in the water.

Still screwed up is the original 250GB HDD. I can't get rid of the "wrong external storage connected" screen. InstantCake is of no use as it considers the drive too small. Any way to salvage it? The 640GB is going back into the desktop.


----------



## richsadams

hmm52 said:


> I'm posting my day's experience in case there's a lesson to be learned for anybody else. <snip>


Thanks for the entertaining post! Cats can be, um, fun...but they aren't very helpful with electronics of any nature. Dogs on the other hand...well...aren't either. As you suggest, folks that want to upgrade need to read ALL of the info on the FAQ and follow the directions to the letter...no short cuts, no creative thinking, no "what if's".

Unfortunately recordings from TiVo's that employ an eSATA drive cannot be saved during the upgrade process. Recordings are striped across the internal and external drives and there is no way to directly combine the two onto one new drive. The only option is to transfer non-copy protected recordings to an outside source like another TiVo or a computer and then back to the newly upgraded TiVo.

By your description the external drive was not divorced from the internal drive properly. Unfortunately if that's the case, there is nothing to be done. To remove the eSATA drive, be sure to follow the proper divorce procedure:

http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/getconnected/howto_add_recording_capacity.html

Even if you did this properly, TiVo doesn't think so, so the result is the same...a borked hard drive. 

Thanks for datapoint regarding the WD10EVDS not being able to initially boot w/o disabling the Intellipark feature. This is still an obviously moving target.

Enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## hmm52

Thanks for your input Rich when it sounds like you are losing much leisure time because of the Frontier snafu. Your answer was as I suspected. I assume the WD 640Gb could be used in a pinch as I have a good restore file on a desktop. By the way I don't put any blame on the cat. He is fun even when he's bad.

Wrong thread but your current CCI situation sounds random but ominous. Somewhat different was my last year and a half with Comcast Philadelphia. Initially it was 0X00 across the board. HBO became the first to fall to 0X02; then all the premiums; next were the ESPNs; when I left for FiOS in '06, Comcast Phila. was applying 0X02 to everything including the locals! Their answer was always the same, "It's not us; it's the content providers." Right. I have no idea what they've done since then. 0X02 was a PITA with the Sony DVRs as they'd see consecutive recordings on the same channel as copying twice - multiple ESPN broadcasts of a tennis major for example. So one minute recordings on another channel needed to be setup in between each ESPN recording as a workaround. 

I thought that Verizon would never CCI flag anything because it would interfere with their own equipment's ability for MRV. This not so? I haven't looked in a long time but I think it's 0X00 across the board here and CCI is disabled. I understand you are transitioning from VZ to Frontier. Nice timing.


----------



## rocko

hmm52 said:


> <snip>
> I thought that Verizon would never CCI flag anything because it would interfere with their own equipment's ability for MRV. This not so? I haven't looked in a long time but I think it's 0X00 across the board here and CCI is disabled. I understand you are transitioning from VZ to Frontier. Nice timing.


While I don't have one I'm willing to bet that VZ uses a streaming implementation for MRV. Since only one copy exists there's no copy protection problem.

We've been screaming for streaming (c) for quite a while. I believe with S3 hardware it's not capable - perhaps something can happen with the new S4 platfor but I'm not holding my breath. I'm happy to get a few days without a spontaneous reboot.


----------



## richsadams

hmm52 said:


> Thanks for your input Rich when it sounds like you are losing much leisure time because of the Frontier snafu.


Glad to help...well...sort of anyway. Yes, the Verizon nonsense is concerning. If they leave this mess for Frontier to clean up I'm afraid it will remain "as is". The Frontier folks I've talked do have no clue what a copy flag is. Granted it was a front line CSR, but she didn't sound concerned or inclined to pass my comments along. We'll see what happens.


----------



## abk

richsadams said:


> Hmmm...there's something wrong with both figures (unless you have an external drive of some sort connected). It s/b reporting 157 HD and 1367 SD hours. You might want to reconnect it to your computer and run Supersize (see the FAQ instructions - doing so won't affect anything else).
> 
> If you do open it back up can you post the drive's manufacture date? TIA.
> 
> Let us know how it goes.


Just wondering...should I have formatted the drive before copying the image across? I followed steps as per post 1 and the whole process went w/o a hitch. I'll have to wait for weekend to dive in again and get the drive out, as it's in the b/room and mrs might not be happy w/o her tivo. One thing though, the drive is absolutely quiet....much more than the original 160gb from the tivo.

Found this link angusj.com/tivo and this person has similar figures to mine.

cheers


----------



## whitepelican

abk said:


> Just wondering...should I have formatted the drive before copying the image across?


No, it's not necessary to format the drive in any way.



abk said:


> Found this link angusj.com/tivo and this person has similar figures to mine.


Those numbers are correct for a 1TB drive in an Australian Tivo. If you're in Australia, then it sounds like your upgrade was performed correctly. I believe the 1367 SD hours for U.S. Tivos is estimated on recording analog channels at lowest quality or something. I think Australia doesn't use analog at all, so you don't see that ridiculously inflated number.


----------



## richsadams

abk said:


> Just wondering...should I have formatted the drive before copying the image across? I followed steps as per post 1 and the whole process went w/o a hitch. I'll have to wait for weekend to dive in again and get the drive out, as it's in the b/room and mrs might not be happy w/o her tivo. One thing though, the drive is absolutely quiet....much more than the original 160gb from the tivo.
> 
> Found this link angusj.com/tivo and this person has similar figures to mine.
> 
> cheers


As Whitepelican mentions, you do not need to format your new drive.

I have to remember that our cousins down under also now have TiVo's. D'oh!  Let us know if by chance that's the case. BTW, the different SD numbers are due to the differences in data used; PAL (AU and most of the rest of the world) Vs NTSC (U.S.A.)...PAL having 50fps or lines of resolution vs NTSC's 30.


----------



## billbillw

I saw that the Hitachi HD31000 is only $59.99 at Newegg now w/free ship. I ordered one since I'm pretty sure my HD is starting to fail. 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145287


----------



## yukit

billbillw said:


> I saw that the Hitachi HD31000 is only $59.99 at Newegg now w/free ship. I ordered one since I'm pretty sure my HD is starting to fail.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145287


There is also the 2TB deal for $110 after $20 MIR:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145276

I wonder if these are the new batch of Deathstar drives with no AAM support.


----------



## reubanks

yukit said:


> There is also the 2TB deal for $110 after $20 MIR:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145276
> 
> I wonder if these are the new batch of Deathstar drives with no AAM support.


You mean the ones that keep my wife awake at night so I had to swap it out to the livingroom until I get around to getting a nice quiet WD?

Probably.


----------



## billbillw

yukit said:


> There is also the 2TB deal for $110 after $20 MIR:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145276
> 
> I wonder if these are the new batch of Deathstar drives with no AAM support.


I am expecting this to be the case. Luckily, the drive is for my living room Tivo. BTW, the deal I posted yesterday was apparently just a one day sale. The price is back up to $79, but now with a $10 MIR.


----------



## richsadams

yukit said:


> There is also the 2TB deal for $110 after $20 MIR:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145276
> 
> I wonder if these are the new batch of Deathstar drives with no AAM support.


So has it been confirmed that the AAM cannot be adjusted on the newer Hitachi drives with either hddscan _or_ the older Hitachi Feature Tool v2.11?


----------



## reubanks

richsadams said:


> So has it been confirmed that the AAM cannot be adjusted on the newer Hitachi drives with either hddscan _or_ the older Hitachi Feature Tool v2.11?


Rich,

I was unable to adjust AAM on either of my (2) Hitachi HDS722020ALA330 2TB drives using Hitachi Feature Tool v2.11, HDDScan, or Hitachi Feature Tool 2.15. The drives have an APR-2010 date on the label.

Randy


----------



## richsadams

reubanks said:


> Rich,
> 
> I was unable to adjust AAM on either of my (2) Hitachi HDS722020ALA330 2TB drives using Hitachi Feature Tool v2.11, HDDScan, or Hitachi Feature Tool 2.15. The drives have an APR-2010 date on the label.
> 
> Randy


Thanks Randy. The 1TB Hitachi models I have, HD31000 IDK/7K, are very quiet out of the box, but if it's for a bedroom I guess I'd have to think twice about using one if I couldn't adjust the AAM. It also sounds like the 2TB drives are louder.


----------



## reubanks

I'm curious. Has anyone succeeded in putting a large (1.5-2TB) drive in the original Series3 (using the added capacity over 1.35TB) similar to the Mr. B. upgrade for the THD?

I don't have one, but I was just wondering.

Thanks, Randy


----------



## ThreeSoFar

reubanks said:


> I'm curious. Has anyone succeeded in putting a large (1.5-2TB) drive in the original Series3 (using the added capacity over 1.35TB) similar to the Mr. B. upgrade for the THD?
> 
> I don't have one, but I was just wondering.
> 
> Thanks, Randy


I have some lifetimed series 3 units, but no need for such an increase in volume. IN fact, I'd get rid of the Series 3 lifetimed units if I could get the right price.


----------



## richsadams

reubanks said:


> I'm curious. Has anyone succeeded in putting a large (1.5-2TB) drive in the original Series3 (using the added capacity over 1.35TB) similar to the Mr. B. upgrade for the THD?
> 
> I don't have one, but I was just wondering.
> 
> Thanks, Randy


Hi Randy. Unfortunately the hacked image to create 2TB drives is from a TiVo HDXL and won't work in a Series3, only TiVo HD's or HDXL's


----------



## ThAbtO

richsadams said:


> It also sounds like the 2TB drives are louder.


Think its about as loud as a freight train.


----------



## reubanks

richsadams said:


> Hi Randy. Unfortunately the hacked image to create 2TB drives is from a TiVo HDXL and won't work in a Series3, only TiVo HD's or HDXL's


Rich,

I understand about the HDXL hack to the HD, but thought someone here might have come up with a equivalent hack for the Series3, possibly using a custom partition layout.

I thought I saw a DVR_DUDE offering on eBay a while back... (I could be wrong.)

Randy


----------



## richsadams

reubanks said:


> Rich,
> 
> I understand about the HDXL hack to the HD, but thought someone here might have come up with a equivalent hack for the Series3, possibly using a custom partition layout.
> 
> I thought I saw a DVR_DUDE offering on eBay a while back... (I could be wrong.)
> Randy


Oh, got it. I've seen the Series3 2TB drives on ebay but I've never seen any kind of hack we could use show up here...a closely guarded secret I suspect. Frankly I was really surprised to see the one for the THD appear. I sold my THD, but still have my S3. I'd take a whack at the 2TB hack if it were available too.


----------



## MikeAndrews

reubanks said:


> Rich,
> 
> I understand about the HDXL hack to the HD, but thought someone here might have come up with a equivalent hack for the Series3, possibly using a custom partition layout.
> 
> I thought I saw a DVR_DUDE offering on eBay a while back... (I could be wrong.)


Thanks for the tip. I checked. You're not wrong. It's a Hitachi.

http://cgi.ebay.com/TiVo-Series-3-T...ultDomain_0&hash=item3a5a3cea8a#ht_4098wt_913

Just was I was building my maxed-out S3 to be 2 x 1.5TB.

I might blow the money to get one of these and sell my new 1.5TB drive.

Can you still add an (1.5TB?) external when you have a 2TB internal?


----------



## JimboG

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Huge thanks to richsadams and bkdtv for their help on this invaluable thread. Here is my recent (ultimately successful) experience upgrading my Series 3 to 1.35 TB usable.

I bought a WD1500EARS dated March 3, 2010 from a local Fry's electronics for $110 plus tax last week. I could have gotten the same drive online for about $90-95, but I wanted to be able to return it easily if things didn't work out. Tried to copy my original hard drive to the new 1.5 TB, but I couldn't get past the Welcome! Powering Up screen. Looks like I'll need wdidle3.exe .

Well, there are several versions of wdidle3.exe floating around out there. All of them require a true boot into DOS. Windows 7 64-bit does not like DOS. Much trouble and hilarity ensues trying to create a DOS boot drive on a USB flash drive, trying to burn a DOS boot CD, updating the BIOS for my HP, changing the BIOS boot order and priority, reflashing the BIOS, frying the BIOS, and ultimately dealing with HP tech support in India and sending my main computer back to repair or replace the motherboard.:down::down:

If you want to save a lot of trouble and frustration, don't re-write your BIOS with the same image more than once. I ended up using fdoem to create a free DOS boot disk and add wdidle.exe into the .ISO. Took longer than it should, but I finally ran wdidle.exe /D and turned off the Intellipark "feature" on my 1.5 TB Western Digital caviar green drive. Once I had the right DOS boot disk, changing the drive park time literally took about 15 seconds.

Now I booted up my new hard drive and found that I had 213 hours of HD and over 1800 hours of SD. Better still, all of the recordings that I copied from my original S3 hard drive were still on the new 1.5 TB drive.:up::up::up:

Prices have come way down, storage capacity has gone up. It really isn't too hard to upgrade your Tivo's internal hard drive if you read all of the instructions before starting and then follow them to the letter. Just don't be stupid like me and fry your computer's BIOS in the meantime.


----------



## billbillw

reubanks said:


> Rich,
> 
> I was unable to adjust AAM on either of my (2) Hitachi HDS722020ALA330 2TB drives using Hitachi Feature Tool v2.11, HDDScan, or Hitachi Feature Tool 2.15. The drives have an APR-2010 date on the label.
> 
> Randy


Just curious, did you have the drives installed as emulated IDE when you attempted to adjust the AAM settings? From what I've read, AAM cannot be altered when the drive is connected in SATA/AHCI/RAID modes. Not sure if this is with all drives, or just the Hitachis, but it may be worth the effort to go back and try this again in IDE mode, if your system will allow that.

EDIT: I looked into it more, and I guess the issue with adjusting AAM is when you have ACHI enabled which may or may not be automatic when using a RAID controller. Bottom line, I'd go back and look at your MB configuration.


----------



## reubanks

billbillw said:


> Just curious, did you have the drives installed as emulated IDE when you attempted to adjust the AAM settings? From what I've read, AAM cannot be altered when the drive is connected in SATA/AHCI/RAID modes. Not sure if this is with all drives, or just the Hitachis, but it may be worth the effort to go back and try this again in IDE mode, if your system will allow that.
> 
> EDIT: I looked into it more, and I guess the issue with adjusting AAM is when you have ACHI enabled which may or may not be automatic when using a RAID controller. Bottom line, I'd go back and look at your MB configuration.


I just checked everything in BIOS and it looks good. I tried HFT 2.11 again and it said that AAM adjustment is not supported.

I swapped the 2TB out with a different Hitachi drive (80GB) and I can adjust that one, same with a WD 160GB and a Maxtor 160GB.

Randy


----------



## billbillw

reubanks said:


> I just checked everything in BIOS and it looks good. I tried HFT 2.11 again and it said that AAM adjustment is not supported.
> 
> I swapped the 2TB out with a different Hitachi drive (80GB) and I can adjust that one, same with a WD 160GB and a Maxtor 160GB.
> 
> Randy


That's a bummer. I received a new HD31000 and was able to turn on AAM and set it to 128 using HDDScan. It was made in Feb 2010. Just baked my Cake and I'm about to install and (cross fingers) run the initial setup.


----------



## billbillw

billbillw said:


> That's a bummer. I received a new HD31000 and was able to turn on AAM and set it to 128 using HDDScan. It was made in Feb 2010. Just baked my Cake and I'm about to install and (cross fingers) run the initial setup.


Success! The new Hitachi drive fixed my ailing Series 3. In addition, I now have 144 hours of HD recording ability! Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread! I find the Hitachi's sound level to be totally acceptable (at least with AAM set to 128).


----------



## wolverine9827

LOOOONG time lurker (from WAY back when I upgraded my S2 using the trusty rusty Hinsdale doc - those were the days!  )

I have since retired the S2 (ok, it died gracefully) and moved up to a S3 HD during a promo deal that Tivo was running a few years back.... LOVE this box.
And now I'm looking to do the dirty again with this bad boy.

I'm looking to put a 1.5TB drive in to use the max possible internally... and I WAS leaning towards the Hitachi since I only have a laptop to use for the mfstools so I wouldn't be able to run wdidle for the WD's. With all the latest info all the great pioneers here have shared.... I'm not so sure of which way to go anymore.... With Hitachi engineers obviously smoking some form of controlled substance and deciding to disable AAM in the newest drives AND it seems the latest WD's combined with 11.0g makes the intellipark a moot point - I'm not only stuck not knowing which way to lean but don't even know what fence to lean on! Seagates have never cut it, Sammy's seem to give everyone here heartburn.... and that's about it for the main HD choices. WD, Hitachi, Seagate, and Samsung. Fujitsu seems to have given up on the HD market and Toshiba only seems to sell external drives in the 1TB+ size range (and they probably put WD's or Seagates inside!)

For 1.5TB, newegg really ties to promote Seagate and Samsung... and Hitachi's 1.5TB isn't even listed.... weird....

Guess I'll hang on for a little and wait for more info on the latest WD upgrade results. From what I have gathered so far it looks like the latest 15EVDS is the way to go as long as it was born after May '10....

Keep on keepin' on.... been here forever and this is only my 5th post! LOL


----------



## dcstager

In part 29 of the FAQ there is a link to download a bootable CD image to fix the WD green drives for use as external drives. Just thought I'd tip anyone who might think about downloading it that a particularly nasty browser hijack malware comes with this download and to be very cautious. If anyone has the image and can provide a safe link to download it, I think the FAQ should be changed to point to a safe link. The existing link is not safe to use.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

dcstager said:


> In part 29 of the FAQ there is a link to download a bootable CD image to fix the WD green drives for use as external drives. Just thought I'd tip anyone who might think about downloading it that a particularly nasty browser hijack malware comes with this download and to be very cautious. If anyone has the image and can provide a safe link to download it, I think the FAQ should be changed to point to a safe link. The existing link is not safe to use.


ANy details on this? What OS it works against or doesn't, for instance?


----------



## dcstager

It happened to me downloading with Firefox 3 on XP but it totally affected IE 8 as well. You go to download the file at the link and your system freezes up for a bit then the file downloads. Apparently the site re-writes your security settings and hijacks your browser settings. You get a window you can't close that keeps popping back up and you can't search at google without getting redirected. You can't got to windows update either. The hijack seems to have made a lot of effort to prevent you from removing it.

I'm on an old portable now using Ubuntu now trying to get software and figuring out how to get rid of it. Regular malware and ant-virus scans are ineffective so far. Don't go there with any system using any browser. My system is useless and I still don't know exactly what to do.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

dcstager said:


> It happened to me downloading with Firefox 3 on XP but it totally affected IE 8 as well. You go to download the file at the link and your system freezes up for a bit then the file downloads. Apparently the site re-writes your security settings and hijacks your browser settings. You get a window you can't close that keeps popping back up and you can't search at google without getting redirected. You can't got to windows update either. The hijack seems to have made a lot of effort to prevent you from removing it.
> 
> I'm on an old portable now using Ubuntu now trying to get software and figuring out how to get rid of it. Regular malware and ant-virus scans are ineffective so far. Don't go there with any system using any browser. My system is useless and I still don't know exactly what to do.


If I went there (I forget where I got my wd3idle), it was with my Mac. Don't recall anything odd...


----------



## richsadams

dcstager said:


> In part 29 of the FAQ there is a link to download a bootable CD image to fix the WD green drives for use as external drives. Just thought I'd tip anyone who might think about downloading it that a particularly nasty browser hijack malware comes with this download and to be very cautious. If anyone has the image and can provide a safe link to download it, I think the FAQ should be changed to point to a safe link. The existing link is not safe to use.


I know a number of folks here have been using that file for several months w/o any problems. Is there any chance the Malware or virus came from somewhere else...a coincidence?

If not, can you please PM bkdtv and let him know what happened? If something's wrong he needs to take the link down immediately. TIA!

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/private.php?do=newpm&u=39640


----------



## hmm52

FWIW I had no problem with the link last week.


----------



## reubanks

I just checked this and it seems SendSpace is hosting a bunch of REALLY annoying popunder/popup adverts. One or more of these may be infected.

I didn't get any viruses or even get an alert. (The machine is pretty locked down for that sort of thing), but I killed the job pretty quick.

Randy


----------



## rocko

reubanks said:


> I just checked this and it seems SendSpace is hosting a bunch of REALLY annoying popunder/popup adverts. One or more of these may be infected.
> 
> I didn't get any viruses or even get an alert. (The machine is pretty locked down for that sort of thing), but I killed the job pretty quick.
> 
> Randy


I believe I created that ISO for bkdtv and I can tell you there's nothing fishy with that image. If sendspace does something that's a different story but I can tell you the iso is fine.


----------



## dcstager

I have spent yesterday and today fixing my system. I'm of the opinion is was from one of the ads on the site. I thought I was locked up pretty tight too, but it nailed me big time. I could not get rid of it with the usual stuff. The Kapersky online check is down, the Trend Micro online check didn't fix it and Ad Aware didn't fix it either. I went through step by step guides from others who had similar problems where fixes were posted. Nothing worked. I had to restore my system from an image backup I made a month ago after completely wiping my hard drive with Darik's boot and nuke.

Someone went to a lot of trouble to disseminate this through an ad.


----------



## reubanks

dcstager said:


> I have spent yesterday and today fixing my system. I'm of the opinion is was from one of the ads on the site. I thought I was locked up pretty tight too, but it nailed me big time. I could not get rid of it with the usual stuff. The Kapersky online check is down, the Trend Micro online check didn't fix it and Ad Aware didn't fix it either. I went through step by step guides from others who had similar problems where fixes were posted. Nothing worked. I had to restore my system from an image backup I made a month ago after completely wiping my hard drive with Darik's boot and nuke.
> 
> Someone went to a lot of trouble to disseminate this through an ad.


Install Avast AND Malwarebytes AntiMalware. (both available from www.download.com)

Update both of them, disable System Restore and the swap file, and run a boot scan using Avast. After that, reboot to Safe Mode and run Malwarebytes. Clean what you find.

After the system is clean, put back the swap file and system restore (if you want to...) You might also run the latest and up-to-date Spybot Search and Destroy. (also from download.com)

Randy


----------



## yukit

rocko said:


> I believe I created that ISO for bkdtv and I can tell you there's nothing fishy with that image. If sendspace does something that's a different story but I can tell you the iso is fine.


Yes, the ISO imaged worked fine when I downloaded & burned the image on a CD a few weeks ago. The only minor issue I ran into with the ISO was the versio of wdidle3 was not the version that supported disabling Intellipark with my WD20EARS drive. You could still set the timer to a really large value though.

I ended up downloading a newer version of wdidle3 (version number ends with 5, like x.5 or x.05) to use with a bootable USB stick.

BTW, I finally got my Tivo HD fully working today with the WD20EARS drive. I was originally considering getting a lifetime sub, but ended up just replacing an existing Tivo.
I don't know if the guru-guide trick to repopulate the SP works in this case.
I will wait till tomorrow to re-enter my SP & wish lists.


----------



## Chew

My computer technical knowledge is limited, so please excuse the dumb question. 

I'm trying InstantCake (TiVo S3) on a drive using an older computer. It's the only hard drive attached. The BIOS recognizes the drive and shows it as "SATA-2".

But, no matter the code I select for the drive during IC (a, b, etc), it continues to say "unable to write to drive". I've tried every code.

Can someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong?


----------



## CraigK

yukit said:


> I will wait till tomorrow to re-enter my SP & wish lists.


Depending on how many season passes you have you might find it faster to try using the Find TV Shows search at TiVo.com and 1-Click Season Pass. You still have to go in and reorder the Season Passes (and maybe change options), but at least you can type in the names of the shows rather than using the alphabet grid.


----------



## rocko

yukit said:


> Yes, the ISO imaged worked fine when I downloaded & burned the image on a CD a few weeks ago. The only minor issue I ran into with the ISO was the versio of wdidle3 was not the version that supported disabling Intellipark with my WD20EARS drive. You could still set the timer to a really large value though.
> 
> I ended up downloading a newer version of wdidle3 (version number ends with 5, like x.5 or x.05) to use with a bootable USB stick.
> 
> BTW, I finally got my Tivo HD fully working today with the WD20EARS drive. I was originally considering getting a lifetime sub, but ended up just replacing an existing Tivo.
> I don't know if the guru-guide trick to repopulate the SP works in this case.
> I will wait till tomorrow to re-enter my SP & wish lists.


I created new ISO with the 1.05 version of wdidle3 and uploaded to my website. If bkdtv wants to grab it and replace the existing version he's welcome to do so.

I have uploaded it with a .txt extension. You can right-click the file - *fdoem.txt *- in your browser and save it as an ISO.

http://www.bungmunch.com/images/


----------



## reubanks

This doesn't seem to work in either IE or Firefox. I'm getting an OOPS error!

Randy



rocko said:


> I created new ISO with the 1.05 version of wdidle3 and uploaded to my website. If bkdtv wants to grab it and replace the existing version he's welcome to do so.
> 
> You can right-click the file - *fdoem.iso *- in your browser and save it.
> 
> http://www.bungmunch.com/images/


----------



## rocko

reubanks said:


> This doesn't seem to work in either IE or Firefox. I'm getting an OOPS error!
> 
> Randy


I renamed it with a .txt extension - try a "Save As" now ...


----------



## reubanks

That worked. Thanks!


----------



## JimboG

Rocko,

As your name suggests, your rock! Thank you very much for posting the bootable ISO with the latest version of wdidle3.exe:up:


----------



## richsadams

For anyone with a Series3 that would like to add some plug and play recording space, the Fantom 1TB external hard drive is currently available from onsale.com for $49.99 AR...

http://bit.ly/bI5N5j

Rebate offer expires June 30th. This eSATA drive is being used successfully by a number of TCF members. Of course it could be used with PC's, Macs, etc. as well...also has a USB connection.

Note that this drive will ONLY work via P&P with the original TiVo Series3 model (not TiVo HD, HDXL, Premiere). And before you ask, removing the drive from the sealed enclosure will void the hard drive's warranty.


----------



## Chew

Chew said:


> My computer technical knowledge is limited, so please excuse the dumb question.
> 
> I'm trying InstantCake (TiVo S3) on a drive using an older computer. It's the only hard drive attached. The BIOS recognizes the drive and shows it as "SATA-2".
> 
> But, no matter the code I select for the drive during IC (a, b, etc), it continues to say "unable to write to drive". I've tried every code.
> 
> Can someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong?


Can anyone help?


----------



## reubanks

Chew said:


> Can anyone help?


What computer is this? (brand name and model. maybe even the BIOS version...)

Have you tried changing the SATA port to the lowest number? Have you tried changing the port emulation in BIOS? Is there a "legacy" or IDE/PATA emulation setting?

Randy


----------



## Chew

It's a Dell 8400.

Unfortunately, I don't know how to do any of the rest of what you suggested.


----------



## reubanks

The Dell Dimension 8400 has (4) SATA connectors in a 2x2 block near the front edge of the motherboard. They are SATA-0 through SATA-3. Move the (probably blue if you have original DELL cables) SATA cable from the SATA-2 connector to the SATA-0 connector. Try that.

I'll research the BIOS settings. I don't have a Dimension 8400 here, but I DO have an Optiplex that may have a similar BIOS menu layout.

Randy


----------



## Chew

reubanks said:


> The Dell Dimension 8400 has (4) SATA connectors in a 2x2 block near the front edge of the motherboard. They are SATA-0 through SATA-3. Move the (probably blue if you have original DELL cables) SATA cable from the SATA-2 connector to the SATA-0 connector. Try that.
> 
> I'll research the BIOS settings. I don't have a Dimension 8400 here, but I DO have an Optiplex that may have a similar BIOS menu layout.
> 
> Randy


Ok, I did that and currently have it on SATA-0. When I select 'a' on the InstantCake menu it now says something to the effect of "not enough room" on the drive. (and I hope it's not reading the empty floppy drive or something!) I also tried 'b' and that still said "unable to write to drive".

This is an original TiVo S3 drive. 

In case you're wondering: after properly removing an external drive, my TiVo wouldn't boot up at all and I thought I'd reload the image.

Thank you for your help. I'm going crazy without my TiVo!!!


----------



## reubanks

It's possible there was a bad sector detected and locked out. If this is the case then the drive is "smaller than the original image" and won't work in an S3.

But, drives are cheap. I have seen 1TB drives go for around $50. (4x the size of the original S3 250GB drive) Even if you have to pay $60-90 for the drive you'll have a much higher capacity than you did before.

Where are you located? Is there a Fry's near you? They have some great deals sometimes. (BestBuy may also be a good place to get one, as is NewEgg.com)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...ption=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&srchInDesc=

Randy


----------



## Chew

My first step to fix the problem a few days ago was to try a new 1TB drive. But, that drive got stuck on "Almost there". 

With the original drive, I got the "Green Screen of Death". 

They're not the same boot-up problem, so I don't know if it's much worse than being a drive problem? Which is why I was experimenting with InstantCake on the original.


----------



## reubanks

What 1TB drive do you have? Did you use I.C. to image it or did you copy the original drive?


----------



## Chew

InstantCake. Hitachi drive


----------



## reubanks

OK, that's good. Hmm, I don't know of any issues with using a Hitachi drive other than the noise...

Anyone else out there seen this?

Randy


----------



## yukit

Chew said:


> My first step to fix the problem a few days ago was to try a new 1TB drive. But, that drive got stuck on "Almost there".
> 
> ..


How long did you wait on the "Almost there" screen?
I would give about 10 mins before giving up.

This has happened to me with a 2TB Hitachi drive in my XL. Usually another hard power cycle would bring it up. Once it is working, I don't seem to have any issues including soft reboots.


----------



## Chew

I gave it nearly 30 minutes.


----------



## richklein

Sorry for asking a dumb question, but is this the latest DD to use? http://www.newreleasesvideo.com/hinsdale-how-to/index9.html Is this still the command to copy the entire drive from one drive to another? dd if=/dev/hdc of=/dev/hdb bs=1024k Thanks - Rich


----------



## drcos

WD1501FASS appears to not work. Stuck on "powering up" with all LEDs for >10 min.
Trying to replace a Seagate...
Not the same as too big (no reboot, reboot, reboot).
Any ideas?


----------



## MapleLeaf

I have three third-generation Tivo's (one S3 and two THD's) which had their internal drives upgraded to 1Tb Western Digital drives several years ago. Unfortunately, at that time, I wasn't aware of the MfsSuperSize option, so I never ran them. More precisely, here are my three Tivo units, the drives they were upgraded with, the current reported amount of HD and SD hours, and the approximate date I performed the hard drive upgrade:

THD #1 - WD10EACS, 142 HD hours and 1241 SD hours, Nov/07
S3 - WD10EVCS, 143 HD hours and 1244 SD hours, July/08
THD #2 - WD10EVCS, 142 HD hours and 1241 SD hours, Dec/08

From reading some of the earlier posts in this thread, it seems like if I just run MFSSuperSize on my drives now, I will magically just get about 15Gb more recording space on each drive. However, before trying this out, I've got a couple of minor concerns that I'm hoping someone can address.

1) It seems MFSSuperSize performs its magic by truncating reserved space. I know the FAQ and some other posts in this thread say that it should be fine to run MFSSuperSize any time, but does that really apply when it's been running for two years after upgrading? I can understand where doing it a day or two later won't matter because the reserved space likely never filled up, but since it's been running with its current reserved space for over 2 years, it may have completely filled up. As such, is it really safe to simply truncate the size of that reserved space by 15Gb? What happens to files that may currently be residing in that space? If it only affects the Tivo ads that were recorded/downloaded there, then I could care less. But is there any chance it could potentially lead to systemic instability or some other cascading set of failures, such as widespread corruption of other files and/or directories on the disk?

2) I don't recall the version(s) of WinMFS I used to upgrade my various Tivo's. Is there any risk with simply using the latest version of WinMFS to perform MFSSuperSize on drives that were previously expanded using earlier versions of WinMFS?

Apologies if these questions have already been answered. I tried to find relevant posts in this thread regarding MFSSuperSize, but it's such a large thread that I may have missed the particular posts (if any) that address these issues.


----------



## richsadams

drcos said:


> WD1501FASS appears to not work. Stuck on "powering up" with all LEDs for >10 min.
> Trying to replace a Seagate...
> Not the same as too big (no reboot, reboot, reboot).
> Any ideas?


If your TiVo is stuck on the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen it means that the motherboard cannot communicate with the hard drive. Is the drive plugged in properly? Do you hear it spin up when you plug TiVo in?

Besides being overkill for a TiVo (no need for 7200RPM or 64MB cache) I don't know if anyone has tried to install one of those or if it's incompatible for some reason. If it does end up working it will also run fairly hot and be pretty noisy. Was there a particular reason you chose this drive?

What model TiVo do you have and how did you go about upgrading?


----------



## richsadams

MapleLeaf said:


> I have three third-generation Tivo's (one S3 and two THD's) which had their internal drives upgraded to 1Tb Western Digital drives several years ago.


 MFS Supersize frees up extra space reserved for storing tivoclips; the advertising videos that are downloaded. You can indeed Supersize at any time w/o having an impact on your current settings or recordings.

I cannot answer your question #2 but I don't see any reason that it should affect anything as MFS Supersize has done the same thing throughout all of the winMFS upgrade versions.

You would end up with 157 HD and 1367 SD hours or recording space. If you feel it's worth doing but might be risky you could PM the author of winMFS, Spike, on his website, http://mfslive.org/forums/ and see what he has to say.


----------



## MapleLeaf

richsadams said:


> MFS Supersize frees up extra space reserved for storing tivoclips; the advertising videos that are downloaded. You can indeed Supersize at any time w/o having an impact on your current settings or recordings.


Sure, but as I mentioned, my concern was that the reserved space was already fully in use (which I would think might be possible, since I've been running with it at its current size for 2 years). So by shrinking the reserved space by 15Gb, if that space is currently fully occuped by tivoclips and other Tivo ads, then you've essentially got to delete 15Gb worth of files occupying the reserved space. Does MFSSuperSize delete those files gracefully, or does it somehow just "chop off" 15Gb, regardless of whether or not that might entail straddling the boundary of an existing file? If the latter, then is there risk of corrupting more than just the truncated file? If it's just one tivoclip that's corrupt, I could care less. But if the corruption leads to systemic instability or somehow corrupts other files and/or directories, well, that would be an entirely different and far more troubling story...


----------



## richsadams

MapleLeaf said:


> Sure, but as I mentioned, my concern was that the reserved space was already fully in use (which I would think might be possible, since I've been running with it at its current size for 2 years). <snip>


I think you might be over thinking this but I get what you mean. There have been plenty of people that have Supersized post upgrade, but I don't know if their drives were completely full or not. The time you've had them wouldn't matter, it would be a matter of space, swap files, etc. I wouldn't hesitate to do it but again, if you're worried, get in touch with Spike and see what he recommends.


----------



## drcos

I wanted to replace a Seagate ST31500341AS that I suspect is causing video glitches and is kinda noisy.
What 1.5TB would work better as a replacement in a Series 3 for being a little quieter and more reliable?

The WD will probably end up in my video 'server' project.


----------



## richsadams

drcos said:


> I wanted to replace a Seagate ST31500341AS that I suspect is causing video glitches and is kinda noisy.
> What 1.5TB would work better as a replacement in a Series 3 for being a little quieter and more reliable?


Any of the recommended drives listed on the first post of the FAQ should do just fine. Also, understand that you will end up using less than the full 1.5TB of space. More about that in Section V, #17 of the FAQ. FWIW I would stay away from Seagate's 1.5TB drives since they have a very poor track record.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## slowbiscuit

Just wanted to add the anecdote of another issue with a Samsung F1 - I upgraded to a 500GB a couple of years ago shortly after I bought my first Tivo HD. It recently showed signs of failing (pixelation on recordings, shortened recordings, the occasional problem with live channel changes). Kickstarted into 54 and Tivo SMART check failed on extended scan. Put it into my Win PC and HDScan SMART check said it had excessive uncorrectable sector errors.

Bought a Hitachi HD31000 1TB from amazon and used winmfs w/supersize to copy the Sammy over and get a nice 157 HD hours of goodness that will hopefully last more than a couple of years. Had no problem setting AAM to 128 w/HDScan, drive was manufactured in Jan 2010.

Will probably Spinrite the Sammy and reuse it until it dies on some machine I don't care about (and have backups for). The drive doesn't make noise and performs fine other than the bad sector count, but it's just a matter of time.


----------



## yukit

slowbiscuit said:


> Just wanted to add the anecdote of another issue with a Samsung F1 - I upgraded to a 500GB a couple of years ago shortly after I bought my first Tivo HD. It recently showed signs of failing (pixelation on recordings, shortened recordings, the occasional problem with live channel changes). Kickstarted into 54 and Tivo SMART check failed on extended scan. Put it into my Win PC and HDScan SMART check said it had excessive uncorrectable sector errors.
> 
> ...


I use 4 of these HD103UJ drives in a NAS with raid5. The NAS has been pretty much continuously powered on for the last 2 years (Power On hour 16343, Power Cycle Count 5)
One astonishing stats is the Hardware ECC Recovered: 18977608. NAS is working great though.


----------



## Chew

Chew said:


> My computer technical knowledge is limited, so please excuse the dumb question.
> 
> I'm trying InstantCake (TiVo S3) on a drive using an older computer. It's the only hard drive attached. The BIOS recognizes the drive and shows it as "SATA-2".
> 
> But, no matter the code I select for the drive during IC (a, b, etc), it continues to say "unable to write to drive". I've tried every code.
> 
> Can someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong?


I gave up on trying to fix it and called TiVo yesterday for an out-of-warranty exchange.

It's still $149. :up:


----------



## drcos

richsadams said:


> Any of the recommended drives listed on the first post of the FAQ should do just fine. Also, understand that you will end up using less than the full 1.5TB of space. More about that in Section V, #17 of the FAQ. FWIW I would stay away from Seagate's 1.5TB drives since they have a very poor track record.


Thanks, Rich, but there are no 1.5TB drives listed in the FAQ. I'll try a WD EARS here in a couple of days and see how that works. I know about the limit, but as I said, I want to replace a 1.5TB drive already in the S3.

I'll post a follow-up once I try the new drive early next week.

(Edit: You know Rich, if I would've scrolled down two lines in the FAQ I would have seen them. Thanks. Again, if the EARS works, I will post and we can add it to the list for everyone else.)


----------



## richsadams

drcos said:


> Thanks, Rich, but there are no 1.5TB drives listed in the FAQ. I'll try a WD EARS here in a couple of days and see how that works. I know about the limit, but as I said, I want to replace a 1.5TB drive already in the S3.
> 
> I'll post a follow-up once I try the new drive early next week.


Okay, you have me worried...not only did you miss it in my post, but you didn't see it in the FAQ either.  As mentioned in my post, the 1.5TB drives are listed in Section V, #17 of the FAQ. Be SURE you read ALL of the upgrade instructions as well. Missing even one step will guarantee failure. Luckily you can start over again, but avoiding the disappointment of having your "new" TiVo not fire up the first time is a nice thing. The WD EARS series should work just fine.


----------



## hmm52

richsadams said:


> If your TiVo is stuck on the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen it means that the motherboard cannot communicate with the hard drive. Is the drive plugged in properly? Do you hear it spin up when you plug TiVo in? ...............


How broad is your definition of "communicate", Rich? If sitting together in stony silence is also a form of communication, I'll agree with you. The WD10EVDS did exactly that when I installed it several weeks ago. With images of both 9.2a and 11.0g software, it wouldn't advance past "Welcome! powering up..." Applying wdidle3.exe resolved this immediately. It's quick and easy for those who haven't used it.

BTW I pulled the plug on my one week + experiment with warranty exchange "certified repaired" Seagate 750GB as external drive. It was a strange one. The drive checked out fine with all diagnostics. I accumulated about 500GB of HD recordings with it in place. No glitches. Then in quick succession I encountered every error I've seen in 2.5 years with the S3 except for pixelation. From one night to the next morning, the errors were:
With full intact recordings, access to them denied with message "No Signal. Recordings not made" (paraphrasing). As in the past, rebooting restored access to all recordings. Irritating, not fatal.
Spontaneous reboot with extended GSOD
Reboot when HDMI connected TV was powered up
Reboot when component connected TV was powered up
Random screen freeze and reboot

Pretty impressive collection of errors in just an 8 hour period, don't you think? So I followed the advice of the most experienced on this thread and simplified things with just the WD10EVDS internal. No glitches since ending the experiment early this week. I did finally upgrade the Sony DHG HDD250s to enable guide acquisition digitally. Out of use for over 2 years. I had forgotten how s l o w any sort of command input with them is. I hope they're never needed as backups.


----------



## jeffw_00

Hi - I put in a 1TB WD (listed) drive back in December. One night 2 weeks ago we turn on the TV and it's pixelating/distorting so bad it lost 5 min of a 1 hour program. I did system restart and after it completed, it spontaneously rebooted about 20 seconds later. So I powercycled, and all was fine with no recurrence. 

last night, we noticed intermittent noticeable, but not severe, pixelating/distorting on a program.

so I'm thinking of pulling the drive and running the WD diagnostics. Any harm? Any suggestions?

thanks!
/j


----------



## rocko

jeffw_00 said:


> Hi - I put in a 1TB WD (listed) drive back in December. One night 2 weeks ago we turn on the TV and it's pixelating/distorting so bad it lost 5 min of a 1 hour program. I did system restart and after it completed, it spontaneously rebooted about 20 seconds later. So I powercycled, and all was fine with no recurrence.
> 
> last night, we noticed intermittent noticeable, but not severe, pixelating/distorting on a program.
> 
> so I'm thinking of pulling the drive and running the WD diagnostics. Any harm? Any suggestions?
> 
> thanks!
> /j


No harm in just testing. I might wait a bit longer to see if it happens again - I just hate going through the trouble to find nothing.

If you do end up hooking it up to a computer you might take a truncated WinMFS backup to restore in the event of a complete drive bork. I'd also recommend transferring whatever content off to the computer (TiVo to Go, kmttg) prior to the operation so you don't lose anything should that bork occur.

I always do this prior to pulling a drive - just in case.


----------



## richsadams

jeffw_00 said:


> Hi - I put in a 1TB WD (listed) drive back in December. One night 2 weeks ago we turn on the TV and it's pixelating/distorting so bad it lost 5 min of a 1 hour program. I did system restart and after it completed, it spontaneously rebooted about 20 seconds later. So I powercycled, and all was fine with no recurrence.
> 
> last night, we noticed intermittent noticeable, but not severe, pixelating/distorting on a program.
> 
> so I'm thinking of pulling the drive and running the WD diagnostics. Any harm? Any suggestions?
> 
> thanks!
> /j


Bummer. Sometimes that can be caused by the incoming signal...something going on on the broadcast end or somewhere in between if you have cable. It could also be as you suspect something on your end.

You might first ensure that all of your connections and components are good...coax (both inside and out), HDMI, etc. Sometimes a loose of failing cable, splitter, amp, what have you, will cause what you're seeing. Try also connecting TiVo's power directly to a wall outlet if you're using a surge protector or a UPS (UPS being highly recommended). Power issues can sometimes cause those symptoms as well.

If everything is in good shape you could run TiVo's built-in SMART hard drive diganostic via Kickstart 54. That might give you an idea if there's a problem. You could also try running Kickstart 57 and/or 58 which will attempt to repair problems. More here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

Otherwise, you could pull the drive and run WD's Lifeguard diagnostics. The "quick test" may or may not reveal some issues but it leaves all of the data intact. The extended read/write/read diagnostic is really the one that will give you what you're looking for. Unfortunately that will wipe everything on the drive and you'd have to re-image it with your original files or TiVo OEM drive again.

Oh, FWIW I recall a couple of folks saying that their cell phones were causing that sort of trouble. Once they turned them off (or maybe removed them from nearby) the problem disappeared. Go figure.

It would probably be worthwhile to read the "Troubleshooting and Repairing Your TiVo" sticky thread there:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=416062

Hope that helps and let us know how it goes.

EDIT: And what Rocko said...great minds think alike.


----------



## jeffw_00

Thanks guys - All good advice (except maybe pulling the 1TB of programs onto my PC as a just-in-case - sounds a bit time-consuming 8-}). I feel good about my power and connections (the coax to the TiVo is of superior quality and wrench-tight, only one splitter between it and the curb), but running the kickstart stuff feels pretty benign and easier than cracking open the case. Maybe I'll start there. I'll review that thread as well.

Thanks!
/j


----------



## jeepguy_1980

Has anyone had their WD10EVCS drives die on them? I've had mine in my S3 for more than 2 years now and I think it may be dying, but I'm not certain.


----------



## richsadams

jeepguy_1980 said:


> Has anyone had their WD10EVCS drives die on them? I've had mine in my S3 for more than 2 years now and I think it may be dying, but I'm not certain.


I have a WD10EVCS in our Series3 and I'm not sure if it was a recent FiOS outage or if the drive is becoming a problem but I've experienced several odd freezes recently. It's mostly when I turn the TV on, there's a good picture on the screen, but it just sits there like it was paused. I can push "Live TV" on the remote and it will switch to the other tuner and things are fine again on both tuners. Very strange. It started immediately after Verizon FiOS had a three-state outage on June 7th so that may have something to do with it or it may just be a coincidence. Our drive is about two years old so we may be in the same boat. Hard to say. What are the symptoms? If you really think it's heading south you should transfer any recordings you want to keep to your computer if you can. These things rarely get any better. It can happen to the best of drives. FWIW it has a three-year warranty.

You might have a read through my post to jeffw_00 just above to see if any of those things might help.

Best of luck!


----------



## jeepguy_1980

richsadams said:


> I have a WD10EVCS in our Series3 and I'm not sure if it was a recent FiOS outage or if the drive is becoming a problem but I've experienced several odd freezes recently. It's mostly when I turn the TV on, there's a good picture on the screen, but it just sits there like it was paused. I can push "Live TV" on the remote and it will switch to the other tuner and things are fine again on both tuners. Very strange. It started immediately after Verizon FiOS had a three-state outage on June 7th so that may have something to do with it or it may just be a coincidence. Our drive is about two years old so we may be in the same boat. Hard to say. What are the symptoms? If you really think it's heading south you should transfer any recordings you want to keep to your computer if you can. These things rarely get any better. It can happen to the best of drives. FWIW it has a three-year warranty.
> 
> You might have a read through my post to jeffw_00 just above to see if any of those things might help.
> 
> Best of luck!


I'll run some tests this weekend on the drive.

Yesterday, the TiVo made all of my downloaded VOD shows (i.e. CNET) sound like the people were chipmunks talking through a fan. The voices were high pitched and broken. After a reboot the files played just fine. Then today it did the same thing. I rebooted and they were playing just fine, but then one video froze, pixelated, and let out a really loud high-pitched screech. I watched another video and halfway through the TiVo just rebooted (first time I ever got a random reboot). I watched one more video after the random reboot and it froze, pixelated, and let a high-pitched screech.

Also, the VoD files are taking forever to download (starting today). I have a 25/25 FiOS connection and it was taking the TiVo nearly 30 minutes to download one CNET video.

Even though the VoD video froze while playing back, the TiVo never locked up. So far my problems seem limited to the VoD files, but it seems strange that a reboot will allow me to play them back just fine (without re-downloading).


----------



## jeffw_00

richsadams said:


> ...If everything is in good shape you could run TiVo's built-in SMART hard drive diganostic via Kickstart 54. That might give you an idea if there's a problem. You could also try running Kickstart 57 and/or 58 which will attempt to repair problems....


Ok - after reading your suggestions I may, or may not, have anything wrong with my drive - thanks. so..

Is the risk of running the kickstarts low enough that it 'can't hurt' to run them, or should I wait until I really think I have a problem? (i mean, I don't want to -look- for trouble 8-})

thanks!
/J


----------



## richsadams

jeffw_00 said:


> Ok - after reading your suggestions I may, or may not, have anything wrong with my drive - thanks. so..
> 
> Is the risk of running the kickstarts low enough that it 'can't hurt' to run them, or should I wait until I really think I have a problem? (i mean, I don't want to -look- for trouble 8-})
> 
> thanks!
> /J


There's really zero risk running any Kickstarts. The only thing that might happen is that a recording could be lost if KS57 finds and isolates bad sectors on the drive where part of a recording resides. Otherwise, they should have no affect on your TiVo.

Also note that MFS assert (KS57) will generate what's commonly known as the GSOD (or Green Screen of Death...which it really isn't). KS58 however is transparent in the respect that it doesn't generate any screen and will simply reboot TiVo when it's done. If you run KS54 it's very self explanatory, just try and make sure you follow the directions in the KS post.

I'm going to take a little time and run them on my drive this weekend as well.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes!


----------



## jeffw_00

richsadams said:


> There's really zero risk running any Kickstarts. The only thing that might happen is that a recording could be lost if KS57 finds and isolates bad sectors on the drive where part of a recording resides. Otherwise, they should have no affect on your TiVo.


gracias - will give it a try
/j


----------



## richsadams

jeffw_00 said:


> gracias - will give it a try
> /j


Glad to help. I added a couple of things to my post if you missed them.

Have a great weekend!


----------



## jppowers

Just used WinMFS to image a WD 2TB drive. The Supersize option failed. Has anyone who used the Mr B image previously noted that behaviour?

JP


----------



## yukit

jppowers said:


> Just used WinMFS to image a WD 2TB drive. The Supersize option failed. Has anyone who used the Mr B image previously noted that behaviour?
> 
> JP


I don't remember if I actually tried the supersize option, but I don't remember running into any problems as far as prepping a new 2TB drive. 
It was quite a while ago though,so I could be mistaken.


----------



## MPSAN

Hello ALL:

Thanks to Verizon (long story ), I need to upgrade our Bedroom THD to 1 TB. We do not need any more than that and (I would think a 1.5 - 2 TB drive would be nosier) wonder if the WD10EARS would still be the quietest drive to get. I believe they are better than the Seagate or Hitachi for the bedroom. I believe that I will need wdidle3, but will I need to set AAM?

Waiting for July 4th sales and do not want to pay more than $60 including shipping, although FRYS has them for $68 now in the store!


----------



## rxrepli

jppowers said:


> Just used WinMFS to image a WD 2TB drive. The Supersize option failed. Has anyone who used the Mr B image previously noted that behaviour?
> 
> JP


No need to worry about the Supersize option failing. You will still get the appropriate number of recording hours from the Mr. B image. When I did the upgrade Mfsinfo reported the following:

Total SA SD Hours: 2083	Total DTV SD Hours: 1818	100 % Free
Software: 11.0d-01-2-652	Tivo Model: not set in MFS

Enjoy your Supersize TiVo!


----------



## MPSAN

Is this still true? I had thought that enough people here have now used the WD10EARS and said it was great and 4k sectors were OK ...and quiet. I am asking as I am about an hour away from getting 2 of these drives from FRYS.

From the FAQ

*Western Digital's WDxxEARS drive features a unique 4KB physical sector that exhibits reduced performance under software (like TiVo's) that expects 512 byte sectors. It is not clear to what degree this affects TiVo responsiveness. *


----------



## ThreeSoFar

MPSAN said:


> Is this still true? I had thought that enough people here have now used the WD10EARS and said it was great and 4k sectors were OK ...and quiet. I am asking as I am about an hour away from getting 2 of these drives from FRYS.
> 
> From the FAQ
> 
> *Western Digital's WDxxEARS drive features a unique 4KB physical sector that exhibits reduced performance under software (like TiVo's) that expects 512 byte sectors. It is not clear to what degree this affects TiVo responsiveness. *


I used WD10EADS and WD10EVCS and WD10EVDS and all needed only nothing or (for the EADS) wdidle. Never messed with the physical sector size (if you even can).


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Is this still true? I had thought that enough people here have now used the WD10EARS and said it was great and 4k sectors were OK ...and quiet. I am asking as I am about an hour away from getting 2 of these drives from FRYS.
> 
> From the FAQ
> 
> *Western Digital's WDxxEARS drive features a unique 4KB physical sector that exhibits reduced performance under software (like TiVo's) that expects 512 byte sectors. It is not clear to what degree this affects TiVo responsiveness. *


That entry is outdated. As many others have mentioned, the WD10EARS works fine in TiVo. IIRC some have had to address the Intellipark feature while others haven't. Only the EVDS models have the AAM set to 128 so although they're quiet out of the box, I'd plan on adjusting the AAM on your new bedroom drive at least.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> That entry is outdated. As many others have mentioned, the WD10EARS works fine in TiVo. IIRC some have had to address the Intellipark feature while others haven't. Only the EVDS models have the AAM set to 128 so although they're quiet out of the box, I'd plan on adjusting the AAM on your new bedroom drive at least.
> 
> Happy upgrading!


I am back. I will adjust the AAM on both. The drives have a date of 25 December 2009. Should I try to use them without wdidle3, as I have 11.g, or have we figured out by now that we need it. I guess I wonder if it is worth trying.

If I were not going to Fry's for something else, I would have waited for the July 4th ads, but $68 is not that bad.


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> I am back. I will adjust the AAM on both. The drives have a date of 25 December 2009. Should I try to use them without wdidle3, as I have 11.g, or have we figured out by now that we need it. I guess I wonder if it is worth trying.
> 
> If I were not going to Fry's for something else, I would have waited for the July 4th ads, but $68 is not that bad.


$68 is a good deal...need we remember the $259 plus MX-1 enclosure many of us paid for the 500GB eSATA drives we bought when we discovered the Series3 expansion hack? 

AFAIK the drives you found at Fry's are older than most have been using here so wdidle3 may be in order. Me? I'd try one w/o doing it and see what happens...if you have time that is. 

Have fun!


----------



## yukit

MPSAN said:


> The drives have a date of 25 December 2009. Should I try to use them without wdidle3, as I have 11.g, or have we figured out by now that we need it.


Yes, you will likely to require to disable Intellipark.

I believe the build date of the drive must be Mar 2010 or later.

My WD20EARS built on Feb 19 required wdidle3.


----------



## durbin

My 500GB WD drive has failed. I was looking at amazon and found the 1TB for $119 and that seems like an excellent price. But, it says this is an updated drive and requires a firmware upgrade from tivo.

"Firmware updates from Tivo that need to be downloaded to Tivo boxes before they will work with our new DVR Expander" Any ideas on how to know if you have this update?


----------



## richsadams

durbin said:


> My 500GB WD drive has failed. I was looking at amazon and found the 1TB for $119 and that seems like an excellent price. But, it says this is an updated drive and requires a firmware upgrade from tivo.
> 
> "Firmware updates from Tivo that need to be downloaded to Tivo boxes before they will work with our new DVR Expander" Any ideas on how to know if you have this update?


Sorry to hear about your "loss". All firmware updates are automatic...nothing to do on your end. Just follow the installation instructions that come with it or on TiVo's website and you'll be good to go.

Enjoy!


----------



## durbin

Thanks for the info. Yes, lost every recording. Could not download shows with kmttg or desktop. Tivo would reboot during the download.


----------



## MPSAN

yukit said:


> Yes, you will likely to require to disable Intellipark.
> 
> I believe the build date of the drive must be Mar 2010 or later.
> 
> My WD20EARS built on Feb 19 required wdidle3.


Well, I did it along with AAM. I had a strange issue with the bootable wdidle3, however, so once I got it going, I did both drives. I did not want to do this again. This may help some and MAY want to be in the FAQ. Section V.14 sort of mentions this, but does not say that you may run into a situation where you can ONLY run 1 command. So don't waste it on anything other than a wdidle3 /D.

I connected the WD10EARS to my MoBo Raid controller. Although it IS configured for RAID and NOT for a legacy OS when I ran wdidle3 /R it showed the WD10EARS as set to 8 seconds. Whatever I did after that just hung everything. I set the BIOS to make the S-ATA/RAID controller as EIDE, but it did not matter.

With everything set as before, I tried commands again. I would do a wdidle3 /R to see what it was set to, but then whidle3 /D and everything else would hang the system.

THE FIX...for me anyway...

I booted the CD again with the WD10EARS OFF. When I was at the DOS prompt, I turned the WD10EARS on and waited for it to spin up and ready. Now, when I did a wdidle3 /D it came back and reported that it was now set to 3720 seconds...62 minutes. At that point, if I tried a wdidle3 /R, it would hang. So, I turned the drive off, rebooted, and turned the drive back on. When I now did a wdidle3 /R it now shows 3720 seconds instead of the 8.0 seconds it showed before, so it DID work.

Bottom line...if you get these hangs at every command, try what I had to do. I see several posts saying that WDIDLE3 did not work for them. Perhaps the issue is that the system will only take 1 command per boot! I do not know why, but this was the only thing that worked for me.


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Well, I did it along with AAM.


Sooooo...are you in 3TB territory (total) happy TiVoland now?


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Sooooo...are you in 3TB territory (total) happy TiVoland now?


Not yet. Can you call my wife and tell her to get the heck off of the system I built for her? 

I used mine to run wdidle3 and hddscan, but want to use her system for the copy stuff. I want to get at least the system in the Theater Room done as HBO has the Complete John Adams series going on Saturday. I could always record it on the already running 1 TB TIVO upstairs and then just MRV ...OH...never mind!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Not yet. Can you call my wife and tell her to get the heck off of the system I built for her?
> 
> I used mine to run wdidle3 and hddscan, but want to use her system for the copy stuff. I want to get at least the system in the Theater Room done as HBO has the Complete John Adams series going on Saturday.


No, no matter what anyone says, I really do value my life. So no calls to anyone else's wives! 

Thanks for the John Adams Series tip...saw it when it first aired...excellent mini-series. :up: :up: :up: I'll be able to recommend it to some friends that missed it the first time around. Too bad we can't copy it now. 

Happy upgrading...when you can anyway.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> No, no matter what anyone says, I really do value my life. So no calls to anyone else's wives!
> 
> Thanks for the John Adams Series tip...saw it when it first aired...excellent mini-series. :up: :up: :up: I'll be able to recommend it to some friends that missed it the first time around. Too bad we can't copy it now.
> 
> Happy upgrading...when you can anyway.


Well, that is why I d/l the HBO/Cinemax Monthly pdf from hbo.com.

Well, she has an appointment at about 4:45, so I will do it then. With hddscan and wdidle3 run already I hope it will go OK.


----------



## MPSAN

Well, I upgraded one of them. Not sure I have an issue or not. I am letting it run now. I did wdidle3 and AAM. Then I did a copy. I put the new WD10EARS in and have the 157 hours. I added 7 John Adams shows (the complete series) on HBO this Saturday and it then did a reboot a few minutes later...not good. It came back and said getting channel info...why, who knows. It then did another reboot and has been running ever since. I have seen people say that they went through a few reboots and then all was OK. If it happens again, I will take the new 2nd drive and try it in that TIVO. I would think it is not the drive but who knows.


----------



## yukit

MPSAN said:


> Well, I did it along with AAM. I had a strange issue with the bootable wdidle3, however, so once I got it going, I did both drives. I did not want to do this again. This may help some and MAY want to be in the FAQ. Section V.14 sort of mentions this, but does not say that you may run into a situation where you can ONLY run 1 command. So don't waste it on anything other than a wdidle3 /D.
> 
> I connected the WD10EARS to my MoBo Raid controller. Although it IS configured for RAID and NOT for a legacy OS when I ran wdidle3 /R it showed the WD10EARS as set to 8 seconds. Whatever I did after that just hung everything. I set the BIOS to make the S-ATA/RAID controller as EIDE, but it did not matter.
> 
> With everything set as before, I tried commands again. I would do a wdidle3 /R to see what it was set to, but then whidle3 /D and everything else would hang the system.
> 
> THE FIX...for me anyway...
> 
> I booted the CD again with the WD10EARS OFF. When I was at the DOS prompt, I turned the WD10EARS on and waited for it to spin up and ready. Now, when I did a wdidle3 /D it came back and reported that it was now set to 3720 seconds...62 minutes. At that point, if I tried a wdidle3 /R, it would hang. So, I turned the drive off, rebooted, and turned the drive back on. When I now did a wdidle3 /R it now shows 3720 seconds instead of the 8.0 seconds it showed before, so it DID work.
> 
> Bottom line...if you get these hangs at every command, try what I had to do. I see several posts saying that WDIDLE3 did not work for them. Perhaps the issue is that the system will only take 1 command per boot! I do not know why, but this was the only thing that worked for me.


Glad you managed to get it to work eventually.

As I recall, wdidle3 /D seems to work only with the latest version of wdidle3. I think it is 1.05.

I believe a member here (rocko?) updated a bootable ISO image with the latest version of wdidle3.

In my case, I was not able to make wdidle3 work at all with a laptop with an esata dock. I had to connect a WD20EARS to a desktop with a sata on a MoBo. YMMV.


----------



## MPSAN

yukit said:


> Glad you managed to get it to work eventually.
> 
> As I recall, wdidle3 /D seems to work only with the latest version of wdidle3. I think it is 1.05.
> 
> I believe a member here (rocko?) updated a bootable ISO image with the latest version of wdidle3.
> 
> In my case, I was not able to make wdidle3 work at all with a laptop with an esata dock. I had to connect a WD20EARS to a desktop with a sata on a MoBo. YMMV.


Actually I had tried both and got the 1 command hang on both 1.05 and 1.03. I got it working with 1.03.

Still wonder about those 2 reboots, but so far it is running OK...for now. I am thinking of doing the copy again from the original 160GB drive to the still unused (but I have run wdidle3 and AAM) drive I bought for the bedroom. I bought two WD10EARS and could try that...put the one that had 2 reboots in the bedroom after doing a copy from the bedroom 160GB drive. Perhaps I am worrying about nothing. Still, the problem would either move or they would both work.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

I thought $119 seemed high. Newegg.com has the WD10EARS for just $70 shipped. Some people don't like how they secure their OEM drives, but I've had only one DOA in over 20 drives.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136490

ETA: This one looks good too.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152173


----------



## richsadams

ThreeSoFar said:


> I thought $119 seemed high. Newegg.com has the WD10EARS for just $70 shipped. Some people don't like how they secure their OEM drives, but I've had only one DOA in over 20 drives.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136490
> 
> ETA: This one looks good too.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152173


The WD10EARS would be a good option for an internal upgrade (it's certainly cheaper...and the way to go IMHO), but I don't think that's what the OP was wanting to do and why he's looking at a 1TB My DVR Expander. He has a TiVoHD so using the WD drive in an external enclosure isn't a P&P option either.

The Sammy drives have had a very mixed to failed TiVo upgrade history. That's why they aren't on the FAQ's recommended list and probably s/b avoided.


----------



## reubanks

This isn't the cheapest I have seen 2TB drives, but it's a good deal.

Even more so when you figure in the free shipping!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...6514&cm_re=2tb_western-_-22-136-514-_-Product

Randy


----------



## bowlingblogger

I'll wind up paying about $95 for this Hitachi Deskstar 2TB after the $20 mail-in rebate and Bing Cashback with TigerDirect. I'll be using it in my computer since the consensus seems to be that Hitachi removed AAM adjustment capability from the newer builds--but it's still a good deal for anyone who wants to brave the noise in their Tivo:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5265070&CatId=4357


----------



## richsadams

bowlingblogger said:


> I'll wind up paying about $95 for this Hitachi Deskstar 2TB after the $20 mail-in rebate and Bing Cashback with TigerDirect. I'll be using it in my computer since the consensus seems to be that Hitachi removed AAM adjustment capability from the newer builds--but it's still a good deal for anyone who wants to brave the noise in their Tivo:
> 
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5265070&CatId=4357


 *Shaking head* Isn't that amazing...<$100 for 2TB. Where will it all end?


----------



## ThAbtO

richsadams said:


> *Shaking head* Isn't that amazing...<$100 for 2TB. Where will it all end?


Think it will end with our empty wallets and fat tivos.


----------



## richsadams

ThAbtO said:


> Think it will end with our empty wallets and fat tivos.


_"And so he did speak and verily I say unto you each and every one, what he spoke was the truth"_


----------



## Marconi

There's a saying here in Arizona, that having four-wheel-drive just means you can get stuck further from the road. 

Having lost the 1 TB drive in a THD recently, I can say with certainty that having a very large hard drive (or two) just means you can lose more recordings when it goes south.

There's something to be said for keeping the original 160 GB drive in the THD and having fewer recordings at risk.


----------



## ThAbtO

Houston, We have a Tivo.


----------



## MPSAN

Marconi said:


> There's a saying here in Arizona, that having four-wheel-drive just means you can get stuck further from the road.
> 
> Having lost the 1 TB drive in a THD recently, I can say with certainty that having a very large hard drive (or two) just means you can lose more recordings when it goes south.
> 
> There's something to be said for keeping the original 160 GB drive in the THD and having fewer recordings at risk.


Well, if you have more than 1 THD with 1 TB drives, as I do, just configure them as RAID 1.  I will NEVER use 157 hours of HD per TIVO, so what I do is this. If there is a show or series, like V, and I do not want to miss it or chance having a few shows in the series lost, I do the record on both TIVO's...you know, like a RAID 1 TIVO.  I do this especially with a series we want to watch all at once like V. This also gets around any copy flags...who needs MRV when RAID 1 works?


----------



## Marconi

MPSAN said:


> Well, if you have more than 1 THD with 1 TB drives, as I do, just configure them as RAID 1.


I've been burned by TiVo drive failure too many times so I take precautions.

Since that 1 TB THD went south, I decided to back up each of the THD boxes. I now have a Mac dedicated to running iTivo to automatically download every show recorded by either THD. I run iTivo under two accounts at once, one account to back up each THD.

iTivo allows one to "subscribe" to a list of shows and any new recordings of those show that appear in the TiVo NPL get automatically downloaded to the Mac. So, one user account subscribes to one THD and another account subscribes to the other. I keep both accounts logged in for now. I have a second Mac that is currently a web/mail server but will soon be free to be a second iTivo backup box. Then I'll have separate Macs to back up each THD.

I've been backing up stuff on my Mac all along, but not automatically. We're just now getting around to watching the last season of "24" and have yet to start the last season of "Lost." These are backed up on two different drives each through an external eSATA enclosure that accepts bare drives.

So, much of what was on the crashed 1 TB drive was in fact not lost completely because it was backed up elsewhere. But I still lost a lot.

In addition to my two THDs, I have multiple Series 2 SA TiVos: one for NBC, one for ABC, one for CBS, one for Fox, one for ScyFy and another for miscellaneous stuff. TNT, USA, etc. shows are typically season passed on two or more of the various DVRs so we are pretty much assured of getting everything we want to record. But my wife sets up a lot of stuff on the THDs without also setting up a Season pass on another DVR as well, so she lost a bunch when the 1 TB drive became corrupted.

Bottom line, yeah, I already record important stuff in more than one place. But the THDs have proven so unreliable that I created the iTiVo backup. Soon I'll have separate iTiVo backups for each THD.


----------



## MPSAN

Well, I could have done that too, but Verizon FIOS/Frontier added a CCI Byte of 0x02, so that was the end of that. Only some cable channels are still in the clear + the OTA stations.


----------



## richsadams

Marconi said:


> I've been burned by TiVo drive failure too many times so I take precautions.


I keep telling you...invest in a priest.


----------



## ThAbtO

richsadams said:


> I keep telling you...invest in a priest.


Did the devil make him do it?


----------



## richsadams

ThAbtO said:


> Did the devil make him do it?


I don't think so, but based on his posts about his ongoing trials and tribulations I'm almost certain that his TiVo's, his house or perhaps his whole neighborhood is possessed!


----------



## ThAbtO

Omen!


----------



## moxie1617

Got rid of my S1 DirectTivo a few months back and now use a D* HR23 as the main recorder for HD. My S3 was only used for HD OTA(about 80% of our season passes) and is now relegated to catching HD programming when both tuners on the D* tuner are utilized. I also use it for my wifes cooking shows that get burned to DVD and shows and movies for the new iPad. If another show like 24 or Lost comes along I will use it to capture all the episodes so we can have a marathon viewing. Space isn't an issue thanks to TTG. I transer the shows to my PC, remove the commercials and move them back for the marathon. (We still have a season and a half of Lost to watch and the last season of Heros to watch.)

Because of this, I divorced my 500GB DB35 in an Antec case that was installed in May 2007 using the old kickstart method. The divorce went smooth. 

Thanks again to spike2K5 for finding the kickstart method, bfdtv for documenting and supporting this thread, and richsadams for mentoring the thread. If I need more space in the future I be back for an internal drive upgrade.


----------



## richsadams

moxie1617 said:


> Because of this, I divorced my 500GB DB35 in an Antec case that was installed in May 2007 using the old kickstart method. The divorce went smooth.


Glad to hear things are working well. It's interesting to note that your Seagate DB35 was still alive and kicking after more than three years (yikes...has it been that long?) when the owners of the TiVo approved WD My DVR Expanders of the same size appear to be lucky to get 18 months of service of out them. After upgrading the hard drive in our Series3 I took our 500GB DB35/MX-1 and used it as a backup drive for one of our computers...it's still going strong! 

BTW, is the iPad awesome or what? I'm posting this from mine in a hotel! :up:


----------



## moxie1617

I'll being using the 500GB DB35the same way. At the time I did the DB35 for the Tivo I got a Seagate NS version and another Antec case for offsite backups of the office and home computers. Now, I'll dedicate the DB35 for the home and the NS for the office. Also, the three years flew by.

The iPad is my 1st Apple product and it is awesome. I didn't get the 3G version but every hotel we stay at has wireless so it should be a ton better than hauling around my notebook. While on vacation I had only used the notebook for maps, restuarant reservations and other stuff now available on the iPad.

I'm using Tivo Desktop for transfer and the transcoding to the iPad and have got it set up now to do the auto transfer and transcoding. Will see how that works. The iPad sits up perfectly on our exercise machine so she catches up with her show while working out.


----------



## accdealer

does anybody know where or how i can get the Mr. B > than 1tb image for my tivo hd?


----------



## TiVo Bob W

> Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ
> 
> 18. Can I upgrade the built-in hard drive with a larger model without affecting my eSATA drive?
> 
> You can do that with the MFSLive bootCD if you are still using the original, factory-installed TiVo drive. You cannot do this if the internal drive was previously upgraded. Note this capability is not yet supported in WinMFS, but it could be added in a future version. Credit to spike2k5 for this answer.


I have an S3 that I added an 1TB eSATA drive to last year. I would now like to replace my stock internal drive with a 1TB also. Is it possible to do this and keep my recordings? If so, could someone please point me in the right direction.

Thanks, Bob


----------



## richsadams

TiVo Bob W said:


> I have an S3 that I added an 1TB eSATA drive to last year. I would now like to replace my stock internal drive with a 1TB also. Is it possible to do this and keep my recordings? If so, could someone please point me in the right direction.
> 
> Thanks, Bob


Hi Bob. Unfortunately there isn't a way to combine the contents of an eSATA drive and an internal drive to a single drive. The best option is to move the recordings you want to keep (providing they aren't copy protected) to a computer using TiVo Desktop, KMTTG, etc. and then back again after you've upgraded. Probably not what you wanted to hear today, but hope that helps a little.

Also note that once you replace your internal hard drive you can no longer connect an eSATA drive via plug and play. You'll need to "marry" your eSATA drive to your new internal drive using winMFS. That can be done while you're performing the internal drive upgrade. Just be sure to read and follow all of the steps on the first post of this FAQ.

2TB's? When will you ever find the time to watch all of those recordings?  Happy upgrading!


----------



## TiVo Bob W

richsadams said:


> Hi Bob. Unfortunately there isn't a way to combine the contents of an eSATA drive and an internal drive to a single drive.


Sorry, I should have been clearer. I would like to replace my internal drive with a 1TB and keep the eSATA drive and keep the recording if possible. The FAQ appears to indicate this is possible as quoted in #18. I am just having a problem finding info on how to do it.

Bob


----------



## richsadams

TiVo Bob W said:


> Sorry, I should have been clearer. I would like to replace my internal drive with a 1TB and keep the eSATA drive and keep the recording if possible. The FAQ appears to indicate this is possible as quoted in #18. I am just having a problem finding info on how to do it.
> 
> Bob


Oh, got it now.  Yes, that can be done because you are essentially going to copy everything from your original hard drive to the new one and then expand the partitions using the MFSLive boot CD. The eSATA drive shouldn't know the difference. That said I have never tried it so I don't want to give any misleading advice, but I know others here have done it and hopefully will chime in.

For more info you could visit Spike's website and forum (Spike is the author of winMFS, MFSLive, etc.)...

http://www.mfslive.org
http://www.mfslive.org/forums/

Let us know how it goes!


----------



## watermo

richsadams said:


> Oh, got it now. Yes, that can be done because you are essentially going to copy everything from your original hard drive to the new one and then expand the partitions using the MFSLive boot CD. The eSATA drive shouldn't know the difference. That said I have never tried it so I don't want to give any misleading advice, but I know others here have done it and hopefully will chime in.
> 
> For more info you could visit Spike's website and forum (Spike is the author of winMFS, MFSLive, etc.)...
> 
> http://www.mfslive.org
> http://www.mfslive.org/forums/
> 
> Let us know how it goes!


will check mfslive . thanks.


----------



## MikeAndrews

TiVo Bob W said:


> I have an S3 that I added an 1TB eSATA drive to last year. I would now like to replace my stock internal drive with a 1TB also. Is it possible to do this and keep my recordings? If so, could someone please point me in the right direction.
> 
> Thanks, Bob


*NO!!!! The upgrade of the OEM internal drive after an external is added (without 3rd party MFS tools) cannot be done*! *

I got the same wrong advice as you did - that you can use WinMFS - and I asked BEFORE I added the external drive if I could upgrade the internal drive later. Then after I made the quick external add I was told that the internal upgrade cannot be done because it is unknown what the partitions look like once they do an OEM marry.

http://www.mfslive.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1179

So I'm stuck with the 250GB OEM drive and my 1TB external until I'm ready to lose all of my content.

* If you don't mind losing the current content, of course, just remove the external and upgrade the internal drive first.

* There is a procedure to manually create the partitions on the new internal but you have to count cylinders and such and it's not for mere mortals.
http://www.mfslive.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1145



spike said:


> *I have not been able to figure out how plug and play marriage works for S3 and THD*.


----------



## richsadams

netringer said:


> NO!!!! The upgrade of the OEM internal drive after an external is added (without 3rd party MFS tools) cannot be done*!
> 
> I got the same wrong advice as you did - that you can use WinMFS...


It sounds like you may have misread my advice as well as the OP's post in which he refers to Section IV, #18 of the FAQ. The FAQ specifically states that you _cannot_ use winMFS to accomplish what the OP wants to do but that it _can_ in fact be done using the MFSLive bootCD



> _18. Can I upgrade the built-in hard drive with a larger model without affecting my eSATA drive?
> 
> You can do that with the MFSLive bootCD if you are still using the original, factory-installed TiVo drive. You cannot do this if the internal drive was previously upgraded. Note this capability is not yet supported in WinMFS, but it could be added in a future version. Credit to spike2k5 for this answer._


----------



## Sbmocp

Is there any reason why the swap size shouldn't be set to > 128 on a 1TB internal drive upgrade? Would there be any harm in doing so? I've read about some TiVos having wierd issues with larger drives when swap is set to 128, and my own S2 DirecTiVos exhibited some strange behavior (random reboots, acting flaky when stored recording size grew larger) on 300+ Gb drives with 128. I'm thinking 256 or even 512 might be a good idea.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Sbmocp said:


> Is there any reason why the swap size shouldn't be set to > 128 on a 1TB internal drive upgrade? Would there be any harm in doing so? I've read about some TiVos having wierd issues with larger drives when swap is set to 128, and my own S2 DirecTiVos exhibited some strange behavior (random reboots, acting flaky when stored recording size grew larger) on 300+ Gb drives with 128. I'm thinking 256 or even 512 might be a good idea.


There is no "too high" here, I'm pretty sure. There were buggy old versions of the mfs software where anything > 128 really meant zero, which would be bad.

I've always used 500 or even more.


----------



## aaronwt

I always left the swap size at default on all my series 3 boxes. They all had 1TB drives in them that I created with WinMFS. And none of them ever had any issues.


----------



## Sbmocp

ThreeSoFar and aaronwt--

THanks for your input. To be safe I think I'll go w/512. The worst that can happen is that I'll have to re-do if something goofs up.


----------



## abishop

Not sure if this is the right place for this, but I couldn't find anyplace better.

I have a Hitachi Cinemastar 1TB external drive with Antec Veris MX-1 enclosure and all cables needed that I set my dad up with for his Series 3. He just upgraded to the Premier and gave me the stuff to sell. Doesn't look like many of these show up on ebay, so I thought I'd post here in case anyone was interested before putting it on ebay.

Shoot me a message if interested (or tell me where would be better to post this).

Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

abishop said:


> I have a Hitachi Cinemastar 1TB external drive with Antec Veris MX-1 enclosure and all cables needed that I set my dad up with for his Series 3.


Welcome to the forum. If you do decide to post it on ebay you can also post the details on the Forum's "eBay Auction Central":

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=68

If you do end up putting it on ebay, I'd probably split them up...sell the drive and the enclosure separately; you'll probably get more money and appeal to a wider audience. There s/b be a decent amount of interest in the Hitachi Cinemastar drive as it's a dedicated A/V hard drive and very quiet. Of course the MX-1 enclosures are favorites here as well.

BTW, you should probably mention how old it is and/or how long it's been in service.

Best of luck!


----------



## drcos

As a follow-up, the WD15EARS does work in the S3. Did need to do the wdidle command to get it to work first. This was a new drive from NewEgg.
BTW, this drive dropped (after I bought it) to 89.99.


----------



## fluffie

I upgraded the internal drive in my TivoHD very soon after buying it in 2007. 

It is now behaving like the description of a "newer Green WD HDD" in that what started out as occasionally and is now frequent, I must unplug and re-plug in the TivoHD when I go to watch as it is stuck on Welcome! Powering up... 

But I don't see how it can be the "Intellipark" issue as the drive is not "newer". How old is newer? 

My question is: Should I (can I) follow the instructions under section B of the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ and retain my shows while the TivoHD is still usable?

The problem has become more frequent lately and I am worried that the HD will fail completely.

Thank you!!


----------



## Grandpasteve

My original HD died, although it was not initially apparent it was truly dead. I could not create an image from it even though it passed all of the WD tests. Anyway after unsuccessfully begging for an image, I bought Instant Cake and a Hitachi HD31000.

I tried Instant Cake with the original drive while waiting for the replacement. Instant Cake would say it was baked, but I could tell there was no drive activity.

The Hitachi works perfectly. I could not set AAM using my USB to SATA adapter, but the drive is virtually silent.

I was worried about cable cards, but I called Comcast and they reset everything in one pleasant phone call. The operator's name was Verna and she was wonderful.


----------



## fluffie

HCS721010KLA332 seems to be HCS721010CLA332 now? is that the correct drive part number? (CLA vs. KLA)


----------



## Grandpasteve

This is what I ordered.
http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-Desks...ef=dp_return_2?ie=UTF8&n=172282&s=electronics

I'll check the part number on the box and post it after I get home today.


----------



## richsadams

drcos said:


> As a follow-up, the WD15EARS does work in the S3. Did need to do the wdidle command to get it to work first. This was a new drive from NewEgg.
> BTW, this drive dropped (after I bought it) to 89.99.


Thanks very much for the info. :up: Did you happen to notice the manufacture date? TIA.


----------



## richsadams

fluffie said:


> My question is: Should I (can I) follow the instructions under section B of the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ and retain my shows while the TivoHD is still usable?


The short answer is yes. If TiVo is able to boot up properly you should still be able to use the drive to image a new one. FWIW the problems would have nothing to do with the Intellipark "feature" of the newer drives...and it does indeed sound like the hard drive is going south.

If you wanted to, you could try running some of TiVo's built-in diagnostic and repair programs called "Kickstarts". At times they can overcome some minor data corruption or isolate bad sectors on a hard drive. It might be worth a shot, but again it does sound like the hard drive may have seen better days and three years or so isn't great, but not terrible for a drive that's been in service and operational 24/7. Here's a link to the Kickstart info:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

Hope that helps and let us know how things go.


----------



## richsadams

Grandpasteve said:


> My original HD died, although it was not initially apparent it was truly dead. I could not create an image from it even though it passed all of the WD tests. Anyway after unsuccessfully begging for an image, I bought Instant Cake and a Hitachi HD31000.
> 
> I tried Instant Cake with the original drive while waiting for the replacement. Instant Cake would say it was baked, but I could tell there was no drive activity.
> 
> The Hitachi works perfectly. I could not set AAM using my USB to SATA adapter, but the drive is virtually silent.
> 
> I was worried about cable cards, but I called Comcast and they reset everything in one pleasant phone call. The operator's name was Verna and she was wonderful.


Nice! Particularly about being able to get Comcast to re-pair your cable cards over the phone...that's fairly unusual for them. :up: I have three of those drives (two in a NAS and one as a backup drive) and they are very quiet and have been rock solid for about a year now.

Enjoy your "brand new" TiVo and all of that additional real estate!


----------



## richsadams

fluffie said:


> HCS721010KLA332 seems to be HCS721010CLA332 now? is that the correct drive part number? (CLA vs. KLA)


That might be the case, both are Hitachi Cinemastar drives, but I'm not sure if one replaces the other or not. Either should be fine for TiVo purposes.


----------



## MPSAN

Well, I wanted to update you all on my two additional THD 1GB Upgrades. I had to do this because of Verizon/Frontier FIOS...long story in other thread! 

I used the WD10EARS as they were less expensive than 1.5 or 2 TB drives and 157 hours is enough.. I ran wdidle3 and hddscan to set AAM to 128.

Not only are both THD's running OK so far, but what I did not expect was that these drives are quieter than the original 160GB drives! The one in the Bedroom is silent! So now, if there is a show on that has a CCI Byte of 0x02, I set my THD's up as RAID 1!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Well, I wanted to update you all on my two additional THD 1GB Upgrades. I had to do this because of Verizon/Frontier FIOS...long story in other thread!
> 
> I used the WD10EARS as they were less expensive than 1.5 or 2 TB drives and 157 hours is enough.. I ran wdidle3 and hddscan to set AAM to 128.
> 
> Not only are both THD's running OK so far, but what I did not expect was that these drives are quieter than the original 160GB drives! The one in the Bedroom is silent! So now, if there is a show on that has a CCI Byte of 0x02, I set my THD's up as RAID 1!


Sweet! Great info for future upgraders. :up:


----------



## Grandpasteve

Grandpasteve said:


> This is what I ordered.
> http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-Desks...ef=dp_return_2?ie=UTF8&n=172282&s=electronics
> 
> I'll check the part number on the box and post it after I get home today.


The drive is HDS721010CLA332


----------



## Grandpasteve

richsadams said:


> Nice! Particularly about being able to get Comcast to re-pair your cable cards over the phone...that's fairly unusual for them. :up: I have three of those drives (two in a NAS and one as a backup drive) and they are very quiet and have been rock solid for about a year now.
> 
> Enjoy your "brand new" TiVo and all of that additional real estate!


Anyway my cable card (M) is working, but not decoding HBO and Encore channels. I tried 3 different phone reps to get it working, but I ended up accepting a truck roll for Saturday.


----------



## pl1

HURRY UP! 

Western Digital 2 TB Caviar Green SATA Intellipower 64 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Desktop Hard Drive WD20EARS

Gold Box Price: $99.00 (38&#37; off) 

Amazon.com

Good Until 10:00 AM PDT or until sold out. Currently 68% sold out 8:26 PDT
Sold Out as of 9:30 AM PDT


----------



## ThAbtO

Western Digital Updates DVR Expander


----------



## richsadams

So the new Expander has eSATA _and_ USB ports. Wonder how many support calls to TiVo _that_ will generate?


----------



## richsadams

Newegg has the 1TB WD WD10EARS for $59.99 using code *EMCYVZT34*. Includes free shipping! Sale runs through 07/18/10.

http://bit.ly/dxRjNl


----------



## rich111

I have purchased this from NewEgg a 1TB WD10EARS (Mfg Date 12/2009). I am replacing a now noisy 500 GB drive that is about 3 years old.
Questions as follows, do I need to run both Wdidle3 and Hddscan on this drive? Must both these operations be done by connecting direct to Sata connectors on my PC and running under DOS? Little uncomfortable with this (PC is Window 7).
Once having done this to the new drive, I would like to use 2 Sata to USB connectors to copy/transfer files from existing 500 GB to new 1TB. Any estimate on how long copy of about 60 Hours of programs would take?
Thanks


----------



## ThreeSoFar

rich111 said:


> I have purchased this from NewEgg a 1TB WD10EARS (Mfg Date 12/2009). I am replacing a now noisy 500 GB drive that is about 3 years old.
> Questions as follows, do I need to run both Wdidle3 and Hddscan on this drive? Must both these operations be done by connecting direct to Sata connectors on my PC and running under DOS? Little uncomfortable with this (PC is Window 7).
> Once having done this to the new drive, I would like to use 2 Sata to USB connectors to copy/transfer files from existing 500 GB to new 1TB. Any estimate on how long copy of about 60 Hours of programs would take?
> Thanks


I'll let Rich speak to the specifics of what you need to do. But one thing that can help you feel better about your PC is to disconnect that drive entirely as soon as you crack open the case. Label the wires if there are enough loose ones to confuse you. This means you don't have that as a destination to write a backup image, if you wanted one, but it also means there's no way to mess up that drive/OS.

I have a very old spare IDE drive without much life in it left. It's yours if you'd like me to ship it to you (two actually, if anyone else is interested). You can mail me back a check for the shipping amount. It would allow you to write a .bak image of your TiVo, then when all is said and done, mount that drive with your Windows 7 drive and copy it to there. PM me your address if you're interested. Should be about $10 shipping, USPS. Not sure how much for other carriers.


----------



## MPSAN

rich111 said:


> I have purchased this from NewEgg a 1TB WD10EARS (Mfg Date 12/2009). I am replacing a now noisy 500 GB drive that is about 3 years old.
> Questions as follows, do I need to run both Wdidle3 and Hddscan on this drive? Must both these operations be done by connecting direct to Sata connectors on my PC and running under DOS? Little uncomfortable with this (PC is Window 7).
> Once having done this to the new drive, I would like to use 2 Sata to USB connectors to copy/transfer files from existing 500 GB to new 1TB. Any estimate on how long copy of about 60 Hours of programs would take?
> Thanks


I got two WD10EARS drives from the FRYS store and they, too, were 25 DEC 2009.

I did run wdidle3 and hddscan as I did not want to put the THD back together and then find that I had to run the "fixes". You will not have to do the copy again, but I did not want to remove the THD from my TV area again.

I did use the bootable wdidle3 ISO in the FAQ and booted from a CD. The drive, however was connected to the SATA port. One note...I kept getting hangs on this if I used any other command first. What I found was that when I booted, if the first thing I did was a wdidle3 /D, all was OK. The message then showed the time was then set to 3720 seconds or 62 minutes. If I played with any other command first, the above would hang. The first command would work, but I found that I could only do 1 command per boot. No problem.

The next item I did was hddscan for windows. I set AAM to 128. This will work in USB, but as long as the drive was on the SATA port, I ran it anyway. One of these upgrades was for a Bedroom THD, and I must say that it is silent! Quieter than the original 160GB drive TIVO had in it!

I am not sure how long the copy will take with the 2 USB ports but no matter what you do, remove the deleted shows first! It can take some time to copy these deleted shows and I bet you do not want them anyway!


----------



## Grandpasteve

Grandpasteve said:


> Anyway my cable card (M) is working, but not decoding HBO and Encore channels. I tried 3 different phone reps to get it working, but I ended up accepting a truck roll for Saturday.


The truck roll went fine, the field rep called in the pairing to his dispatcher and that was that. No charge for the visit.

Now I'm ready to fill up that 1TB of space - awesome!


----------



## reubanks

Fry's has the WD20EADS 2GB drive on sale for $97! It's "recertified" and only has a 90 day warranty, but it's under a hundred bucks!

http://www.frys.com/product/6299020?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

Which horseman is this?

Randy


----------



## richsadams

reubanks said:


> Fry's has the WD20EADS 2GB drive on sale for $97! It's "recertified" and only has a 90 day warranty, but it's under a hundred bucks!


Nice find Randy. That is a very good price for a 2TB drive, but I've always valued data (even TiVo recordings) way too much to trust a reconditioned hard drive. For about twenty bucks more I'd go with a brand new one...but that's just me.


----------



## donnoh

reubanks said:


> Fry's has the WD20EADS 2GB drive on sale for $97! It's "recertified" and only has a 90 day warranty, but it's under a hundred bucks!
> 
> http://www.frys.com/product/6299020?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
> 
> Which horseman is this?
> 
> Randy


Dell has a today only special on a new version of this drive for $99.99 with free shipping.

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/...055-227502-E011A0C216296C0A00216296A0A1A0A0B3


----------



## richsadams

donnoh said:


> Dell has a today only special on a new version of this drive for $99.99 with free shipping.
> 
> http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/...055-227502-E011A0C216296C0A00216296A0A1A0A0B3


Sah-weet! :up:


----------



## TiVo Bob W

> Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ
> 
> 18. Can I upgrade the built-in hard drive with a larger model without affecting my eSATA drive?
> 
> You can do that with the MFSLive bootCD if you are still using the original, factory-installed TiVo drive. You cannot do this if the internal drive was previously upgraded. Note this capability is not yet supported in WinMFS, but it could be added in a future version. Credit to spike2k5 for this answer.





richsadams said:


> For more info you could visit Spike's website and forum (Spike is the author of winMFS, MFSLive, etc.)...
> 
> http://www.mfslive.org
> http://www.mfslive.org/forums/
> 
> Let us know how it goes!


Well, I gave it a try over the weekend with no success. Tried two different ways. I have posted my results and errors over at http://www.mfslive.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1565&sid=6beef62b254cb896d5e54d7a80c6301b

Thanks, Bob


----------



## fluffie

richsadams said:


> If you wanted to, you could try running some of TiVo's built-in diagnostic and repair programs called "Kickstarts". At times they can overcome some minor data corruption or isolate bad sectors on a hard drive. It might be worth a shot, but again it does sound like the hard drive may have seen better days and three years or so isn't great, but not terrible for a drive that's been in service and operational 24/7. Here's a link to the Kickstart info:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2
> 
> Hope that helps and let us know how things go.


I ran the first of the kickstart routines several days ago. It said it would take a few hours, then only took a few minutes. I haven't had a freeze up since. Still planning on replacing the HD when I get a chance. Thanks,
Linda

Linda


----------



## richsadams

fluffie said:


> I ran the first of the kickstart routines several days ago. It said it would take a few hours, then only took a few minutes. I haven't had a freeze up since. Still planning on replacing the HD when I get a chance. Thanks,
> Linda
> 
> Linda


That's good to hear Linda. :up: A short diagnostic response may indicate that there were a small number of bad sectors and that TiVo was able to isolate them. Something else could come up later though, so replacing the drive certainly couldn't hurt.

Let us know how things go!


----------



## hybucket

A quickie question...I've bought a new enclosure for my 500 My Expander...is there a secret way to getting the HD out of the old one? I don't see any way other than cracking the case.


----------



## richsadams

hybucket said:


> A quickie question...I've bought a new enclosure for my 500 My Expander...is there a secret way to getting the HD out of the old one? I don't see any way other than cracking the case.


IIRC it's a matter for brute force. I think someone posted a little "how to" sometime back. Seems like it was a matter of carefully popping the seams and unsnapping the two halves of the case. If you're not planning on reusing it you can probably just force it open...just be careful not to stick a screwdriver, etc. too deep inside...you don't want to damage the hard drive. Of course be sure to avoid any static electricity.


----------



## jjeff

Does anyone know what happened to BKDTV, the originator of this wonderful thread? He also has a similar great thread on AVS under BFDTV. He hasn't posted here since June 27th and on AVS since June 12th. He used to post daily and his great threads are _thee_ reason I purchased a Tivo(HD), something I said I'd never do(but I couldn't be happier).
I hope all is well with bfdtv....


----------



## jgbeldock

Hi gang. I have purchased and installed two different external 1tb eSata drives and one 500gb drive over the past three days. My S3, running 11.0g-01-2-648 recognizes that a drive is plugged in if I go to Home / Settings/ ... / External Devices, but no matter how many times I tell it to set up this external drive, when it reboots, the S3 says the same thing (drive is not set up) when I return to this menu. Recommendations, anyone?

Thanks,
James


----------



## richsadams

Welcome to the forum James (although it looks like you've been hanging around for a while). Please post all of the details about each drive you're trying to use. Also if your TiVo has the original internal hard drive.


----------



## ThAbtO

jgbeldock said:


> Hi gang. I have purchased and installed two different external 1tb eSata drives and one 500gb drive over the past three days. My S3, running 11.0g-01-2-*648* recognizes that a drive is plugged in if I go to Home / Settings/ ... / External Devices, but no matter how many times I tell it to set up this external drive, when it reboots, the S3 says the same thing (drive is not set up) when I return to this menu. Recommendations, anyone?
> 
> Thanks,
> James





richsadams said:


> Welcome to the forum James. Do you have an original TiVo Series3 or a TiVo HD?
> 
> TiVo Series3 http://www.ubergizmo.com/photos/2007/10/tivo-series-3.jpg
> 
> TiVo HD http://news.cnet.com/i/bto/20090921/tivo-hd-dvr.jpg
> 
> It sounds like you have a TiVo HD. Although the drive will show up the only external drive that will actually work with the TiVo HD (or Tivo HDXL) via plug and play is the Western Digital My DVR Expander.
> 
> If it's actually the original TiVo Series3 post all of the details about each drive you're trying to use.


Here is the clue as to what Tivo he has.


----------



## richsadams

ThAbtO said:


> Here is the clue as to what Tivo he has.


D'oh! Gotta stop skimming the posts!


----------



## jgbeldock

Thanks, gents, for the quick reply. ThAbt0 has it right: it's an unmodified Series3 with the original hard drive, currently running 11.0g-01-2-648. The latest drive not to work is a 1TB Toshiba which shows up as "Toshiba External HDD 1AG01118" in system status. I tried kickstart 54 and the drives both passed S.M.A.R.T. The other two drives not to work were a Western Digital Green 1 TB and an older Maxtor 500 Gb. 

Thanks again for any advice you can offer. 

-J


----------



## richsadams

jgbeldock said:


> Thanks, gents, for the quick reply. ThAbt0 has it right: it's an unmodified Series3 with the original hard drive, currently running 11.0g-01-2-648. The latest drive not to work is a 1TB Toshiba which shows up as "Toshiba External HDD 1AG01118" in system status. I tried kickstart 54 and the drives both passed S.M.A.R.T. The other two drives not to work were a Western Digital Green 1 TB and an older Maxtor 500 Gb.
> 
> Thanks again for any advice you can offer.
> 
> -J


What enclosure(s) are you using? I find it odd that if you run KS54 TiVo is able to read the drives yet they aren't working. Don't be offended, but after connecting them, have you checked your recording capacity on the System Information screen?

Maxtor?! ))shudder((


----------



## MPSAN

Rich, you have important EMAIL.


----------



## pilotbob

Is there a current list of recommended 1TB hard drives for a TiVo HD. I am looking on Newegg and they have the model numbers listed by the FAQ in message 1 as don't use any more... but the ones on the list I can't seem to find. 

Are there any basic specs.. 3GBps 5400 RPM ok... or do you need a 7200 RPM?

Anyone have a recently purchased drive, I'm ok with Seagate or WD or Hitachi that worked without problems using InstantCake to prepare it? It doesn't seem worth it to buy a pre-prepped drive for $239 when most of the 1TB drives at Newegg are less than $100.

This may be in the FAQ but can I use MFS tools to copy from the original HD drive married to WD DVR expander to a single bare 1TB drive?

Thanks,
BOb


----------



## ThAbtO

ThAbtO said:


> Western Digital Updates DVR Expander


Western Digital My Book AV DVR Expander 1 TB USB 2.0/eSATA Desktop External Hard Drive WDBABT0010HBK-NESN

Found it on Amazon.


----------



## richsadams

ThAbtO said:


> Western Digital My Book AV DVR Expander 1 TB USB 2.0/eSATA Desktop External Hard Drive WDBABT0010HBK-NESN
> 
> Found it on Amazon.


Nice find. I hope this new model doesn't confuse anyone. Per the FAQ WD's "My Book" series of external hard drives was one of the few that _wouldn't_ work with TiVo. Odd that they decided to use that name.


----------



## JohnMc

I have an out of warantee TiVo HD (w/lifetime) that is starting to act flaky. If I go ahead and do the drive upgrade and it turns out not to be the problem, will TiVo still replace the unit under the $150 option?


----------



## richsadams

JohnMc said:


> I have an out of warantee TiVo HD (w/lifetime) that is starting to act flaky. If I go ahead and do the drive upgrade and it turns out not to be the problem, will TiVo still replace the unit under the $150 option?


Although TiVo is aware of any drive changes there have only been a couple of reports of them ever denying a replacement. So unless you leave some sort of obvious artifact behind (part of your PB&J sandwich for example) there shouldn't be a problem. All you need to do is slip the original hard drive back in, not mention that you did anything to the CSR and life will be good.

Hard drive failure is by far the overwhelming reason for TiVo problems though, so odds are a new drive will do the trick.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


----------



## MPSAN

I might add that if the "flaky" drive still works a little, you can always put it back in and force a few connections. That will bring it up to date with guide data, etc. I did this and felt that TIVO may wonder why the last time it connected was a few months ago. Just trying to be sure all was OK and did not send any warnings to them. 

However, as Rich said, they do not seem to be looking anyway.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

richsadams said:


> Odd that they decided to use that name.


I won't buy another WD Expander, no matter how they permute the name.

To paraphrase George Bush: fool me once, shame on, shame on you. Fool me twice, you cant get fooled again.


----------



## hybucket

ThAbtO said:


> Western Digital My Book AV DVR Expander 1 TB USB 2.0/eSATA Desktop External Hard Drive WDBABT0010HBK-NESN
> 
> Found it on Amazon.


It says on Amazon that it's compatible with TiVO Series 3. ANyone out there tried it? Amazon says it's been available since June...I'm wondering if it has/will have a better track record than the 500 My Expander untis...


----------



## richsadams

hybucket said:


> It says on Amazon that it's compatible with TiVO Series 3. ANyone out there tried it? Amazon says it's been available since June...I'm wondering if it has/will have a better track record than the 500 My Expander untis...


Based on posts on this forum and a couple of others I keep track of the 1TB model of WD's My DVR Expander appears to be more reliable than the 500GB model at about the same point in its lifespan. But as you probably know that's not saying a lot as the 500GB's only lasted 12 to 18 months which is a very poor track record. If the 1TB's last a little longer, 24 months for example, that wouldn't be a whole lot better IMO.

Often the failure of the 500GB models was due the enclosure and not the drive itself. (A number of folks were able to pull the hard drive, put it in a new enclosure and continue using it while others weren't so lucky.) No one was able to determine if enclosure failures were due to chipset issues, a failed board, etc. Although the exterior is different, without a side-by-side comparison of this new drive and the old one, it's impossible to say if they're using some of the same components, architecture, etc. The My DVR Expanders came in USB and eSATA versions. Since this the new drive is USB/eSATA my guess is that it's all new, but again, impossible to say.

Although none are TiVo users, the three people that rated it on Amazon all gave it five stars. They mentioned that it runs cool and quiet so that's positive. Hopefully WD learned some lessons along the way and this new drive will outlast their older cousins but only time will tell. Did I hear you'd like to become a TiVo Pioneer and give it a go?


----------



## ThreeSoFar

hybucket said:


> It says on Amazon that it's compatible with TiVO Series 3. ANyone out there tried it? Amazon says it's been available since June...I'm wondering if it has/will have a better track record than the 500 My Expander untis...


How big do you need? If your existing S3 drive is not 1TB+ already, I'd begin with upgrading that. It's pretty easy (near trivial for a techno-geek) to do on your own, and the best 1TB drives are often on sale under $80.


----------



## richsadams

ThreeSoFar said:


> How big do you need? If your existing S3 drive is not 1TB+ already, I'd begin with upgrading that. It's pretty easy (near trivial for a techno-geek) to do on your own, and the best 1TB drives are often on sale under $80.


Phantom and I second that. :up:


----------



## hybucket

richsadams said:


> Phantom and I second that. :up:


Yes, I know that Rich (and many others here) are all for upgrading the unit itself, but I just wouldn't feel comfortable attempting it (yes, I know the instructions here make it easy for a 12 year-old, but, unfortunately, I'm not a 12 year-old). I currently have the 500 My Expander running - it's been 16 months now, and I'm getting some indications it is on its last legs (ocassional freezes, audio not matching video...). I have purchased a new casing for it (I've heard an 8 year-old can do that...), so that when it craps out, I'll try that. But if it doesn't work after that, I may just be a "pioneer" and try the 1TB model. Best Buy also has it, but considerably more $.


----------



## JohnMc

richsadams said:


> Although TiVo is aware of any drive changes there have only been a couple of reports of them ever denying a replacement. So unless you leave some sort of obvious artifact behind (part of your PB&J sandwich for example) there shouldn't be a problem. All you need to do is slip the original hard drive back in, not mention that you did anything to the CSR and life will be good.
> 
> Hard drive failure is by far the overwhelming reason for TiVo problems though, so odds are a new drive will do the trick.
> 
> Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


I ran kickstart 54 before proceding and on the extended scan it reported "Fail 7", so I think the drive was the issue. The upgrade went flawless (I did not attempt to save content) and the unit seems to be at 100% again. I'm going to do my S3 as soon as I get all the content transfered to my newly upgraded TiVo HD.

PS: I used a Western Digital WD10EVDS that I purchased back in October, before they became incompatable with TiVo. I bought two, so I have one left for my S3.


----------



## richsadams

JohnMc said:


> I ran kickstart 54 before proceding and on the extended scan it reported "Fail 7", so I think the drive was the issue. The upgrade went flawless (I did not attempt to save content) and the unit seems to be at 100% again. I'm going to do my S3 as soon as I get all the content transfered to my newly upgraded TiVo HD.
> 
> PS: I used a Western Digital WD10EVDS that I purchased back in October, before they became incompatable with TiVo. I bought two, so I have one left for my S3.


Excellent news all around (well, except for the failed drive). Glad to hear things are back to normal. Happy transferring and enjoy your "new" TiVo's!


----------



## richsadams

hybucket said:


> I have purchased a new casing for it (I've heard an 8 year-old can do that...), so that when it craps out, I'll try that. But if it doesn't work after that, I may just be a "pioneer" and try the 1TB model. Best Buy also has it, but considerably more $.


Understood and I certainly don't fault anyone for not wanting to fuss with an upgrade. Keep in mind that if the external goes south all of your recordings will be lost (recordings made since it was connected). If you have shows you can't live without you might want to consider transferring them to a computer for safe keeping.

Let us know how things go if you do end up placing your eSATA drive in a new enclosure or decide to get the new WD expansion drive. TIA!


----------



## hybucket

richsadams said:


> Understood and I certainly don't fault anyone for not wanting to fuss with an upgrade. Keep in mind that if the external goes south all of your recordings will be lost (recordings made since it was connected). If you have shows you can't live without you might want to consider transferring them to a computer for safe keeping.
> 
> Let us know how things go if you do end up placing your eSATA drive in a new enclosure or decide to get the new WD expansion drive. TIA!


If I do have to "divorce" the Expander, I know the recordings will be lost, but will anything else be screwed up, like the ToDo list or SPs?


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Phantom and I second that. :up:


I will 3rd it but the prices are more like <$70 now. Also, 1 large internal HD has less points of failure than an internal + an External.


----------



## jwl

richsadams said:


> Looks like bkdtv missed your question. My answer is "probably". Since TiVo recognized the drive (as evidenced by the requirement to properly remove it) it's more likely that there is a problem with the drive or the drive enclosure. Again since TiVo acknowledged the drive my money says that the eSATA hard drive itself is defective. It's fairly rare but it happens and as with most CE products, if something's going to fail, it'll usually fail right away.
> 
> The SIIG cable is still a good investment, but I'd get an RMA for your DOA drive from Newegg. bkdtv may have some other advice as well.
> 
> Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


Rich, You've been a great help to anyone reading your answers to my questions. I had a bad DVR Expander & tried various methods to fix it -- or save the programming. Was finally able to save past 4 gigs on a computer without Kaspersky. The quasi-solution for the numerous (even OTA) protected programs was a PVR.

Being a complete newbie on computers, I gave up on all else just a few days ago & returned the defective drive to WD.

As of a few minutes ago, I plugged in the RMA replacement from WD & got stuck on the same on-screen message as the poster you answered above:

"Your expansion storage device has been activated for use with this DVR."

Nothing more. All remote keys are unresponsive, though the LED lights up.

The e-SATA cable is the one I used with the previous drive. That drive failed the SMART tests, so I don't think it was the cable. Also, the drive continued to degrade over the past 3 months, unrelated to the cable, in that TiVo Desktop recordings generally got smaller each time they were attempted on a particular file (as it reached a new bad point).

*Outside of trying other wall outlets or power strips, or another cable, any suggestions?*

Readers might want to note the following if not discussed here already:

When I created the RMA, WD's site took me to a page where I could purchase for $24.95 an "extended warranty" for 2 more years on the replacement they were to ship out. I had until mid-July to do so.

By early July, WD said, & confirmed a few days ago, that *"video" equipment like DVR Expanders & the other "TV" products, are the only products they DO NOT offer extended warranties on.*

I asked whether, since they were now no longer selling extended warranties on replacement drives, I had any protection in the event this new drive did not work. They said to call them if it is DOA. I believe they are closed now, so will have to see what they say tomorrow.


----------



## richsadams

jwl said:


> *Outside of trying other wall outlets or power strips, or another cable, any suggestions?*


Thanks for the kind words and sorry to hear about the problems with your eSATA drive. It sounds like you've got all of the bases covered, but have a look at this post to see if anything else helps...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7553444#post7553444


----------



## rich111

I am ready to replace my 500GB previously upgraded drive with a 1TB WD10EARS that I have done the wdidle3 thing on, and set AAM to 128. I want to copy about 50 hours of HD material from one drive to the other, and will be using external esata to usb on the 2 drives. Any estimates how long this will take? Thanks.


----------



## mellenfan

Is there a diy way to upgrade a series 4?


----------



## richsadams

mellenfan said:


> Is there a diy way to upgrade a series 4?


 Not using winMFS so far. IIRC there's someone on eBay selling Pre-imaged 2TB drives for the Premiere.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

richsadams said:


> Not using winMFS so far. IIRC there's someone on eBay selling Pre-imaged 2TB drives for the Premiere.


But does the Linux mfs backup works on S4? If so, then, YES there is a way.


----------



## kemac

No the old mfs tools do not work, S4 contain an extra partition plus some other differences in how the data on the drive is treated. Hopefully some new/updated tools will be available to the public at some point.


----------



## jeepguy_1980

I have had a few problems with my TiVo and want to try upgrading the HDD to see if that is my problem. Is there any way to go from my 1.o TB to a 1.5 TB and keep my recordings?


----------



## rocko

jeepguy_1980 said:


> I have had a few problems with my TiVo and want to try upgrading the HDD to see if that is my problem. Is there any way to go from my 1.o TB to a 1.5 TB and keep my recordings?


Not using the entire 1.5TB - check the sticky. I think you can go up to 1.2 something. Not worth the effort if you ask me.


----------



## jeepguy_1980

rocko said:


> Not using the entire 1.5TB - check the sticky. I think you can go up to 1.2 something. Not worth the effort if you ask me.


It says I can go to 1.35. Since I have to replace my HDD anyways, I might as well get the biggest I can. But if I can't keep the recordings on my 1.0, I'd rather just buy another 1.0 HDD.


----------



## MikeAndrews

jeepguy_1980 said:


> I have had a few problems with my TiVo and want to try upgrading the HDD to see if that is my problem. Is there any way to go from my 1.o TB to a 1.5 TB and keep my recordings?


Use any of the MFS utilities to format the new drive and copy your existing content. You'll only get another 250GB or so of increased space.

If you have an original Series 3 you can add the drive externally.


----------



## haidawei

I am trying to upgrade my THD with a WD10EARS, but I am running into difficulties. I know that I have to run wdidle3.exe to make the drive compatible with Tivo, but that is my problem. I cannot get wdidle3 to run. I have the new drive connected to one of the SATA ports on my XP machine. I first made a CD of the ISO file that is found in the FAQ. I boot the machine, the light for the CD-ROM flashes, but then the machine boots to XP. Then decided to extract the files and make another CD. This CD has the following files on it: wdidle3.exe, autorun.bat and a folder named isolinux. I put that CD in and rebooted. The same thing happened and the machine booted to XP. My last resort was to put the above files on a USB drive and try and get the machine to boot to the USB. Once again, the machine boots to XP. I am obviously missing something basic, but I am at a loss. Can someone please explain the steps necessary to get the WD10EARS to run wdidle3 so that I can continue with the upgrade. Thank you.


----------



## jeepguy_1980

netringer said:


> Use any of the MFS utilities to format the new drive and copy your existing content. You'll only get another 250GB or so of increased space.
> 
> If you have an original Series 3 you can add the drive externally.


I already have to replace my internal drive so I'm really just debating a 1TB or 1.5 TB internal HDD. I'm not a fan of external drives for my TiVo. I will buy a 1 TB HDD if I cant keep my recordings by upgrading to 1.5 TB. Otherwise, I want the biggest I can use with my TiVo.

According to bkdtv I cant use WinMFS, which is why I am concerned I might not be able to keep my recordings.



bkdtv said:


> Note you can only prepare a >1.1TB drive using WinMFS; you cannot prepare a >1.1TB drive using MFSLive or InstantCake. Furthermore, to use 1.26TB on a TivoHD or 1.35TB on a Series3, you must start with an original (non-expanded) TiVo image and follow the instructions in the next FAQ.


----------



## MikeAndrews

haidawei said:


> ...I have the new drive connected to one of the SATA ports on my XP machine. I first made a CD of the ISO file that is found in the FAQ. I boot the machine, the light for the CD-ROM flashes, but then the machine boots to XP. Then decided to extract the files and make another CD. This CD has the following files on it: wdidle3.exe, autorun.bat and a folder named isolinux. I put that CD in and rebooted. The same thing happened and the machine booted to XP. My last resort was to put the above files on a USB drive and try and get the machine to boot to the USB. Once again, the machine boots to XP. I am obviously missing something basic, but I am at a loss. Can someone please explain the steps necessary to get the WD10EARS to run wdidle3 so that I can continue with the upgrade. Thank you.


You have to go into the PC Setup and change the boot device order to put the CD ahead of the hard disk. When you see the "Press F12 (or whatever) for setup, press the key. If you don't get a message, try holding F12, or F10, or ESC.


----------



## haidawei

netringer said:


> You have to go into the PC Setup and change the boot device order to put the CD ahead of the hard disk. When you see the "Press F12 (or whatever) for setup, press the key. If you don't get a message, try holding F12, or F10, or ESC.


Yes, I did do that. The CD is the first priority and then the hard disks are the2nd and 3rd in the list. The CD-ROM flashes like it wants to do something but then Windows (hard disk) takes over. I have gone so far as to take out the hard disk with Windows and only have my new drive connected. But, this does not work either. The CD-ROM flashes and then I get an error message.


----------



## ThAbtO

haidawei said:


> Yes, I did do that. The CD is the first priority and then the hard disks are the2nd and 3rd in the list. The CD-ROM flashes like it wants to do something but then Windows (hard disk) takes over. I have gone so far as to take out the hard disk with Windows and only have my new drive connected. But, this does not work either. The CD-ROM flashes and then I get an error message.


Sounds like you didn't make a boot-able CD.


----------



## MPSAN

ThAbtO said:


> Sounds like you didn't make a boot-able CD.


Yes, I assume you got the .iso OK, but how did you burn the iso to the CD? Did you use the free imgburn software? As said, you need to be sure that you created a bootable CD. I ask as the files you show seem correct, but the image burning software needs to make it a bootable CD. That should be taken care of with the .iso.

You can try burning again as you may just have a bad CD that will not boot.. Which iso file did you download? I burn mine to cdrw so I can just erase them and try again. When you tried to boot the CD was there any message on the screen or did it just go to XP? Why it would try to burn a new CD is strange.


----------



## haidawei

MPSAN said:


> Yes, I assume you got the .iso OK, but how did you burn the iso to the CD? Did you use the free imgburn software? As said, you need to be sure that you created a bootable CD. I ask as the files you show seem correct, but the image burning software needs to make it a bootable CD. That should be taken care of with the .iso.


That was it. I was not using the imgburn software. I was burning the ISO with another program. I went back and made another CD with the imgburn software and it worked immediately. I knew that I was missing something easy and I appreciate you pointing it out to me. I am now on my way to upgrading the THD. Thanks again.


----------



## MPSAN

haidawei said:


> That was it. I was not using the imgburn software. I was burning the ISO with another program. I went back and made another CD with the imgburn software and it worked immediately. I knew that I was missing something easy and I appreciate you pointing it out to me. I am now on my way to upgrading the THD. Thanks again.


Glad to be able to help. Also, you may want to use the Windows version of hddscan and turn the AAM to 128. I just did two WD10EARS drives for 2 of my 3 THD's and the one in the bedroom is QUIETER than the original drive the THD came with!


----------



## haidawei

MPSAN said:


> Glad to be able to help. Also, you may want to use the Windows version of hddscan and turn the AAM to 128. I just did two WD10EARS drives for 2 of my 3 THD's and the one in the bedroom is QUIETER than the original drive the THD came with!


Yes, per the FAQ, I used hddscan and turned the AAM to 128. I am looking forward to a quieter machine....not that the original was that loud.

Thanks again!


----------



## MPSAN

haidawei said:


> Yes, per the FAQ, I used hddscan and turned the AAM to 128. I am looking forward to a quieter machine....not that the original was that loud.
> 
> Thanks again!


Great, let us know how it goes.


----------



## rocko

jeepguy_1980 said:


> I already have to replace my internal drive so I'm really just debating a 1TB or 1.5 TB internal HDD. I'm not a fan of external drives for my TiVo. I will buy a 1 TB HDD if I cant keep my recordings by upgrading to 1.5 TB. Otherwise, I want the biggest I can use with my TiVo.
> 
> According to bkdtv I cant use WinMFS, which is why I am concerned I might not be able to keep my recordings.


Hmmm - I know I took a WinMFS expanded 750GB drive and upped it to 1 GB while keeping recordings. Not sure why goinf from 1GB to 1.whatever would be different - but I'm a moron.

If you're keeping the original drive you don't have anything to lose by trying.


----------



## haidawei

MPSAN said:


> Great, let us know how it goes.


Well, I have to say that was one of the easiest upgrades that I have done. The directions in the FAQ were perfect and everything went smoothly. You are correct, the hard drive is quiet. Thanks again for all of the help.

Do I even bother pulling the hard drive out of my DVR expander and running tests on it? Have people had success bringing them back to life once they get them out of the expander enclosure?


----------



## bowlingblogger

haidawei said:


> Do I even bother pulling the hard drive out of my DVR expander and running tests on it? Have people had success bringing them back to life once they get them out of the expander enclosure?


 I pulled mine out of the enclosure after it failed in my Tivo and repurposed it as the main hard drive on an old Windows XP box, and it's still working great.


----------



## jgbeldock

All,

Sorry for my slow reply. Was out of the country. To answer your questions, I have tried connecting my *UNMODIFIED* Series 3 to several e-SATA drives, both 1Tb and 500Gb. Most recently I have tried and failed with a brand new Toshiba 1Tb External, model #PH3100U-1EXB. The Tivo is running 11.0g-01-2-648.

Just to remind everyone, I have an endless loop problem: the S3 recognizes that a drive is plugged in if I go to Home / Settings/ ... / External Devices, but no matter how many times I tell it to set up this external drive, when it reboots, the S3 says the same thing (drive is not set up) when I return to this menu. I confirm that the storage space has not expanded by checking System Status (still 76 hours), and if I go to External Devices, I am told the device needs to be set up (again) no matter how many times I go through the setup/reboot/check process.

Kickstart 54 reports no failures on the drive, and the drive *IS* shown under the External Storage line in System Status (and correctly identified as, e.g., a Toshiba 1Tb External).

Thanks,
-James


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

jgbeldock said:


> Just to remind everyone, I have an endless loop problem: the S3 recognizes that a drive is plugged in if I go to Home / Settings/ ... / External Devices, but no matter how many times I tell it to set up this external drive, when it reboots, the S3 says the same thing (drive is not set up) when I return to this menu.


I haven't gone back to read all your comments in this thread, but in TiVo's defense ...

They don't guarantee that any arbitrary eSATA drive will work. I'd suggest that you try an approved WD product, but unfortunately those tend to fail after about 18 months.

Kinda sucks, sorry I can't be of more help.


----------



## richsadams

jgbeldock said:


> I confirm that the storage space has not expanded by checking System Status (still 76 hours)


Hi James. Can you confirm the HD and SD hours showing on your System Information Screen? I'm asking based on your quote (above). That number doesn't correspond with the recording capacity for a stock drive in a Series3.


----------



## tlc

I'm deciding between the WD10EARS and WD15EARS for my Tivo HD which has a stock drive and a (failing) WD expander. I understand that the EARS requires wdidling and that a 1.5TB drive requires WinMFS and won't get me a full 1.5TB.

I wanted to make sure that I understood this:


> You must start with an original (non-expanded) TiVo image; images from upgraded TiVos will not work.


Will my divorced stock drive qualify to setup a 1.5TB drive? (I think so, but the word "expanded" was used.)

Before the WD Expander, I did a internal upgrade and was unlucky with a bad 1TB drive. So I put the stock one back in and got the Expander. Given this, will my stock drive still qualify to setup a 1.5TB drive?

If I go 1.5TB and need to replace _that_ drive someday, I can't use it as input to WinMFS, right? I'll need to go back to the old stock drive and the newer Subscriptions and Thumbs will be missing, right?


----------



## tlc

There are some success stories with the EARS in this thread. Then I spotted this in the FAQ. Has this been resolved?


> Western Digital's WDxxEARS drive features a unique 4KB physical sector that exhibits reduced performance under software (like TiVo's) that expects 512 byte sectors. It is not clear to what degree this affects TiVo responsiveness.


----------



## MPSAN

tlc said:


> There are some success stories with the EARS in this thread. Then I spotted this in the FAQ. Has this been resolved?


This turned out to not matter.

I have 2 WD10EARS drives running in two THD's now. I needed wdidle3 and hddscan, but these drive are quiet!


----------



## richsadams

tlc said:


> I'm deciding between the WD10EARS and WD15EARS for my Tivo HD which has a stock drive and a (failing) WD expander. I understand that the EARS requires wdidling and that a 1.5TB drive requires WinMFS and won't get me a full 1.5TB.


Probably (there are a few reports of the newest models no longer needing wdidle) and true.



tlc said:


> I wanted to make sure that I understood this:
> 
> Will my divorced stock drive qualify to setup a 1.5TB drive? (I think so, but the word "expanded" was used.)


 Yes.



tlc said:


> Before the WD Expander, I did a internal upgrade and was unlucky with a bad 1TB drive. So I put the stock one back in and got the Expander. Given this, will my stock drive still qualify to setup a 1.5TB drive?


 Yes. Just be sure that you properly divorce your eSATA drive first...

http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/getconnected/howto_add_recording_capacity.html



tlc said:


> If I go 1.5TB and need to replace _that_ drive someday, I can't use it as input to WinMFS, right? I'll need to go back to the old stock drive and the newer Subscriptions and Thumbs will be missing, right?


I'm not sure about the 1.5TB drive but I've replaced a 1TB with a 1TB, saving all of the recordings, etc. without a problem. I don't see any reason the same wouldn't work with a 1.5TB to 1.5TB drive. Hopefully someone that's tried it can chime in.

FWIW if you subscribe to TiVo's Guru Guides or KidZone all of your subscriptions are archived. When your "new" TiVo connects to the mothership your subs, etc. will be repopulated.

http://www.tivo.com/findtvshows/guides/index.html

My two cents? Unless the small amount of additional recording space is critical, I would just go with the 1TB drive. If you shop around you can usually find them on sale at some point. The last two I bought from Newegg were $59.99, a good deal cheaper than the 1.5TB models.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## HazelW

The FAQ states:

You must start with an original (non-expanded) TiVo image; images from upgraded TiVos will not work. You must also use WinMFS to prepare drives larger than 1TB. Older tools such as MFSLive and InstantCake do not support >1TB capacities. 

Not sure if the >1TB applies to the whole statement or just the use of WinMFS.

I have a 1 TB drive that I used Instantcake to prepare. Can I use WinMFS to make an image of this drive and use the image to prepare another drive. I just want to keep the CC pairing info and season passes.


----------



## tlc

dswallow said:


> There should be no issues of recognition of a drive that internally uses 4K block sizes. The issue is with how writes are performed when the drive emulates a 512-byte block size. Think about it... if the drive physically can write only 4K at a time, when you want to write just 512 bytes, you're going to have to read the entire 4K block where the 512 byte block goes, and then write that entire 4K block back out. You'll usually see this referred to as "RMW" or "Read-Modify-Write". To some extent the effect of this should be minimized with write caching, especially considering the likelihood of most writes being sequential, thus never requiring a read-before-write operation. The problem can be compounded if your operating system works with 4K blocks, too, but ends up misaligned such that every 4K write crosses a physical 4K boundary and requires 2 4K block reads and 2 writes to write that single 4K block of data; though again write caching on the drive itself can mitigate this.
> 
> But in the worst case, with no write caching going on, and with every write being to a random 512-byte block location, you could see performance amount to as little as 1/4 of what you should otherwise see from a drive.
> 
> On the other hand, even 1/4 of the write speed these drives are capable of is more than sufficient for the needs of an HD DVR that's recording two programs at the same time it's playing back a third and even downloading a fourth... and then some. In the case of the Western Digital EARS drives, you're maybe looking at a very-worst-case performance around 20-25MB/second. And with a full HD OTA channel being about 18Mb/s, or under 2.5MB/s, there's quite enough performance there to do what is needed.


Doesn't this analysis also mean that in the worst case, you'll be writing any given section of the disk 4 times as often? That can't be good.

I'm going to start searching the thread for talk of the earlier WD greens. Is the recent EARS preference just due to price?


----------



## richsadams

tlc said:


> Doesn't this analysis also mean that in the worst case, you'll be writing any given section of the disk 4 times as often? That can't be good.
> 
> I'm going to start searching the thread for talk of the earlier WD greens. Is the recent EARS preference just due to price?


That's a good question. I don't know if TiVo/Unix/Linux utilizes the drive as you've described and/or reads or writes the same way as X. In my small way of thinking it seems as if it is writing data 4x as often there would be added noise, although I'm not sure if it would be 4x as much as one of the older models. Based on numerous posts, once the AAM is set at 128 it is as quiet or quieter than earlier WD GP models as well as TiVo's OEM drive. That could simply be a result of improved architecture however. MPSAN is a bit of an expert on HDD's and would probably be able to help us here.

The WDXXEARS series hasn't been added to the FAQ recommended list by BKDTV. It's become somewhat of a default partly due to price, but probably more so because the older models are becoming scarce or have been discontinued and it's readily available from most online retailers.

I have two brand new WD10EARS drives sitting on the shelf...guess I should pop one in my Series3 and see how it goes. (After I mow the lawn  ).


----------



## richsadams

HazelW said:


> The FAQ states:
> 
> You must start with an original (non-expanded) TiVo image; images from upgraded TiVos will not work. You must also use WinMFS to prepare drives larger than 1TB. Older tools such as MFSLive and InstantCake do not support >1TB capacities.
> 
> Not sure if the >1TB applies to the whole statement or just the use of WinMFS.
> 
> I have a 1 TB drive that I used Instantcake to prepare. Can I use WinMFS to make an image of this drive and use the image to prepare another drive. I just want to keep the CC pairing info and season passes.


Although I used an original TiVo drive (not IC) to initially create a 1TB upgraded drive, I did subsequently use that 1TB drive's image and winMFS to create a "new" 1TB drive without any issues. I don't see any reason IC would make any difference one way or the other as long as it's like-for-like (1TB to 1TB).


----------



## bobfrank

bkdtv,

Thank you for the great drive upgrade instructions in this thread.

I've upgraded several TiVo's in the past with InstantCake. Following your instructions made the job just as easy and even better was free.

Many thanks again.


----------



## tlc

richsadams said:


> I have two brand new WD10EARS drives sitting on the shelf...guess I should pop one in my Series3 and see how it goes. (After I mow the lawn  ).


Given the reports, I have no fear it will function. My concern is longevity. I've ordered a WD10EVDS.


----------



## richsadams

tlc said:


> Given the reports, I have no fear it will function. My concern is longevity. I've ordered a WD10EVDS.


Since that model is a dedicated A/V drive it will do very well. Although TiVo can't take advantage of most of its features, at least you won't have to adjust the AAM. Let us know what the manufacture date is and if you had to run wdidle to avoid the soft reboot issue. TIA and happy upgrading!


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> That's a good question. I don't know if TiVo/Unix/Linux utilizes the drive as you've described and/or reads or writes the same way as X. In my small way of thinking it seems as if it is writing data 4x as often there would be added noise, although I'm not sure if it would be 4x as much as one of the older models. Based on numerous posts, once the AAM is set at 128 it is as quiet or quieter than earlier WD GP models as well as TiVo's OEM drive. That could simply be a result of improved architecture however. MPSAN is a bit of an expert on HDD's and would probably be able to help us here.
> 
> The WDXXEARS series hasn't been added to the FAQ recommended list by BKDTV. It's become somewhat of a default partly due to price, but probably more so because the older models are becoming scarce or have been discontinued and it's readily available from most online retailers.
> 
> I have two brand new WD10EARS drives sitting on the shelf...guess I should pop one in my Series3 and see how it goes. (After I mow the lawn  ).


Thank you, Rich. The performance required by the TIVO is low compared to the time it would take to write all eight 512 Byte sectors as a 4K block. Also, there should be no seek noise associated with this (head movement going to another cylinder) as the write will be on the same track. This is a VERY hard question to answer as so much depends on the OS and how they handle this. If many of us were not using these EARS drives with 4K blocks already, including me, it could be a good discussion, especially if the 512 byte sector does not align to let the OS/Drive write all eight 512 byte segments all at once.

However, this all seems to not matter as a whole bunch of us do use these drives and have not had any issues, and, as I have said a few times already, this WD10EARS is quieter in our Bedroom THD than the stock drive that TIVO has in the unit..


----------



## MPSAN

Amazon has the WD10EARS for $55.49 with free shipping! Just go to Amazon and search for WD10EARS.


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Amazon has the WD10EARS for $55.49 with free shipping! Just go to Amazon and search for WD10EARS.


Well there's a good $4.50 I wasted.  

Nice find. :up:


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Well there's a good $4.50 I wasted.
> 
> Nice find. :up:


Well, I spent $68 a few weeks ago but getting them at Fry's and being able to return them if I had trouble was kind of worth it. I needed to resolve our FIOS "issue"!


----------



## ashu

It seems the usual suspects have spotted this deal. I was thinking about jumping on this for my S3, as a replacement for the only, never-upgraded internal drive.

Wondering whether the WD-Green-won't-work with the S3 (but will work with HD, HD XL etc) issues of yore (back when the Greenw as released) are still a concern.

i.e. Should I get the Green drive as a standalone/replacement upgrade (internal) drive for my S3 (classic, the one with THX and the OLED screen)?

The timing would be great because I am having the intermittent reboot issue with the S3, with it sometimes staying stuck on the "Welcome, Powering up ..." screen!


----------



## jeepguy_1980

ashu said:


> It seems the usual suspects have spotted this deal. I was thinking about jumping on this for my S3, as a replacement for the only, never-upgraded internal drive.
> 
> Wondering whether the WD-Green-won't-work with the S3 (but will work with HD, HD XL etc) issues of yore (back when the Greenw as released) are still a concern.
> 
> i.e. Should I get the Green drive as a standalone/replacement upgrade (internal) drive for my S3 (classic, the one with THX and the OLED screen)?
> 
> The timing would be great because I am having the intermittent reboot issue with the S3, with it sometimes staying stuck on the "Welcome, Powering up ..." screen!


I just grabbed one this morning for my S3. I hope it works, but if it doesn't, I'll stick it in my PC.


----------



## Gharlane

I just put the 1.5 TB version of this (WD15EARS) into my S3 (OLED) last week, and it's working fine so far.


----------



## Rosenkavalier

There is a review of the new-ish 1TB WD My Book expander on Amazon indicating that it did not work on their TiVoHD, and that supposedly 'tech support' confirmed that it was not supported for the TiVoHD. Amazon comment here: http://www.amazon.com/review/RRY2MNAGWC7GX/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm

I was curious to see if anyone here had the 1TB version working on a TiVoHD...


----------



## richsadams

Rosenkavalier said:


> There is a review of the new-ish 1TB WD My Book expander on Amazon indicating that it did not work on their TiVoHD, and that supposedly 'tech support' confirmed that it was not supported for the TiVoHD. Amazon comment here: http://www.amazon.com/review/RRY2MNAGWC7GX/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm
> 
> I was curious to see if anyone here had the 1TB version working on a TiVoHD...


Most (but not all...including the rest of WD's My Book Series) eSATA drives work with the Series3, but I'm surprised that the new drive would work with a Premiere but not a TiVo HD/HDXL. The description notes TiVo Series3 and Premiere, but they should clearly state that it does NOT work with TiVo HD's. Since TiVo recognizes external drives by the specific drive number I'm still at a loss as to why it isn't TiVo HD friendly yet plays nice with the others...really makes no sense. 

If anyone gets one of these drives for an S3 or Premiere, can you please post the hard drive number listed in the System Information screen? TIA.


----------



## nn2g2bT

Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000.C 1TB 7,200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
Mfr Part # HD31000 IDK/7K
$59.99
Limit 1

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0315531


----------



## KINetics

Rosenkavalier said:


> There is a review of the new-ish 1TB WD My Book expander on Amazon indicating that it did not work on their TiVoHD, and that supposedly 'tech support' confirmed that it was not supported for the TiVoHD.
> 
> I was curious to see if anyone here had the 1TB version working on a TiVoHD...


Probably a bad eSATA cable that was included with the Expander.

Read the newegg review here from a guy who got it working with a TivoHD.

[Sorry, I can't post links yet]


----------



## richsadams

KINetics said:


> Probably a bad eSATA cable that was included with the Expander.
> 
> Read the newegg review here from a guy who got it working with a TivoHD.
> 
> [Sorry, I can't post links yet]


Welcome to the forum and thanks for the post. Here's the link with a review about the new Western Digital My Book AV drive working with a TiVo HD...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136602

A bad cable makes more sense. I couldn't figure out why or really how WD would release a unit that works with the Premiere but wouldn't be backward compatible to the more prevalent TiVo HD/HDXL (as well as the original Series3).

It seems that WD is repeating history. The original WD My DVR Expander had all sorts of problems with the included eSATA cable. There where many, many complaints here and elsewhere about them. More often than not the connectors were too short for some reason. When some industrious folks trimmed the plastic back away from the connector, the cable worked. WD cleaned things up later but it was pretty ugly for several months.

So if it's just a matter of a lousy eSATA cable, the recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable is about $10.

http://www.provantage.com/siig-cb-sa0111-s1~7SISE00F.htm

If anyone gives this drive a try with their TiVo HD, please let us know how it goes. TIA!


----------



## pilotbob

Just want to say thanks very much for the FAQ.

Recently my TiVo has been acting up.. I was getting pixelation and audio dropouts that didn't happen all the time. All of Verizon's testing showed fine and internet is working without problems. 

So, I figured the Hd was starting to go... getting bad spots.

I ordered a new one based on the FAQ list... followed the directions to upgrade using WinMFS and it went perfectly.

Thanks again,

BOb

(I wish getting an OTA antenna up and working were as easy.)


----------



## richsadams

Congrats Bob and enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## rxrepli

richsadams said:


> Since that model is a dedicated A/V drive it will do very well. Although TiVo can't take advantage of most of its features, at least you won't have to adjust the AAM. Let us know what the manufacture date is and if you had to run wdidle to avoid the soft reboot issue. TIA and happy upgrading!


Rich,
I wanted to provide you with additional information regarding the WDxxEVDS drives, the soft reboot issue, and the need to run wdidle. Recently, I used the Mr. B image to upgrade my second TiVo HD with the WD20EVDS. I am on a Mac Pro so I can't run wdidle.

The upgrade went as smoothly as my previous upgrades have. However, the Mr. B image contains the 11.0d build. On the first boot, the TiVo hung. I unplugged and rebooted and everything was fine. After completing Guided Setup I attempted a soft reboot. Again the TiVo hung on the Welcome Powering Up screen. I unplugged and rebooted and all was fine.

About 48 hours later I received the 11.0g service update. The TiVo restarted itself and booted normally. Just to be certain, I again did a soft reboot and the TiVo restarted normally. NO MORE getting stuck on the Welcome... screen. About a day later I received the 11.0h service update and the TiVo restarted itself successfully. As I write this it is working flawlessly without getting hung at the Welcome... screen and I did not run wdidle on this drive.

In summary, it appears that the soft reboot issue is resolved by the 11.0g service update. I'd say using the WDxxEVDS drives without running wdidle will operate properly and quietly if one starts with the 11.0g or 11.0h image. The build date of the drive I used is 28 APR 2010.


----------



## richsadams

rxrepli said:


> Rich,
> I wanted to provide you with additional information regarding the WDxxEVDS drives, the soft reboot issue, and the need to run wdidle. Recently, I used the Mr. B image to upgrade my second TiVo HD with the WD20EVDS. I am on a Mac Pro so I can't run wdidle.
> 
> The upgrade went as smoothly as my previous upgrades have. However, the Mr. B image contains the 11.0d build. On the first boot, the TiVo hung. I unplugged and rebooted and everything was fine. After completing Guided Setup I attempted a soft reboot. Again the TiVo hung on the Welcome Powering Up screen. I unplugged and rebooted and all was fine.
> 
> About 48 hours later I received the 11.0g service update. The TiVo restarted itself and booted normally. Just to be certain, I again did a soft reboot and the TiVo restarted normally. NO MORE getting stuck on the Welcome... screen. About a day later I received the 11.0h service update and the TiVo restarted itself successfully. As I write this it is working flawlessly without getting hung at the Welcome... screen and I did not run wdidle on this drive.
> 
> In summary, it appears that the soft reboot issue is resolved by the 11.0g service update. I'd say using the WDxxEVDS drives without running wdidle will operate properly and quietly if one starts with the 11.0g or 11.0h image. The build date of the drive I used is 28 APR 2010.


Excellent feedback for everyone here. Thanks for that. :up: There have been a few other posts mentioning that v11.0g resolved the soft reboot issue for some, but perhaps not all drives. It's a big ask, but having folks install new drives w/o running wdidle initially to see how it goes is about the only way to confirm it completely...and then only for that particular drive.

In any case, it's good to know that the WDXXEVDS series' soft reboot issue seems to have been resolved with TiVo v11.0g and later. Good news indeed!


----------



## JLK62

richsadams said:


> If anyone gives this drive a try with their TiVo HD, please let us know how it goes. TIA!


I just added a WD My Book AV 1TB to my Tivo HD. I'm using the eSATA cable that came with it & so far so good. I'm really happy about the extra space. Those 21 hours of HD can get used up pretty easily!


----------



## richsadams

JLK62 said:


> I just added a WD My Book AV 1TB to my Tivo HD. I'm using the eSATA cable that came with it & so far so good. I'm really happy about the extra space. Those 21 hours of HD can get used up pretty easily!


Sweet! Thanks very much for the post. This basically confirms that the drive does indeed work with all HD TiVo's (Series3, TiVo HD/HDXL and Premiere).

Thanks again and enjoy all of the new real estate!


----------



## atlr

bkdtv and contributors, Thank you for maintaining this FAQ about replacing TIVO hard drives. I upgraded to a WD10EARS today because my Comcast plan now has a bunch more HD channels which just overwhelmed the stock 160 GB drive.


----------



## rmstone

I have a TivoHD and an 1TB WD myDVR expander drive. If I unplug the external from the power supply will I lose all of my recordings?

We're going out of town for a few weeks and I want to unplug a few things. While away I want to make sure my tivo does its recording. 

Thanks in advance!


----------



## richsadams

rmstone said:


> I have a TivoHD and an 1TB WD myDVR expander drive. If I unplug the external from the power supply will I lose all of my recordings?
> 
> We're going out of town for a few weeks and I want to unplug a few things. While away I want to make sure my tivo does its recording.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


The short answer is if you want to save your existing recordings, don't unplug the external drive. It takes about as much power to run it as a couple of light bulbs so you wouldn't gain much anyway.

All recordings are striped across both the internal and external hard drives. If you were to unplug the external hard drive and wanted to continue to have TiVo operating you would need to properly divorce the external hard drive...which would lose all of the recordings left on your TiVo from the moment the external drive was connected.

If you decide to remove the eSATA drive, be sure to follow the proper divorce procedure:

http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/getconnected/howto_add_recording_capacity.html.

Enjoy your time away!


----------



## jlib

tlc said:


> Doesn't this analysis also mean that in the worst case, you'll be writing any given section of the disk 4 times as often? That can't be good.


Just a comment about the new 4K format drives. All these new drives appear to the OS exactly the same as the previous generation drives because they all emulate the old 512 sector format by default. The internal overhead for the drive controller is more efficient, though, and ultimately will allow larger drive sizes.

The actual sector size is really the province of the drive controller so should not concern us much. 4K is actually an ideal size since it matches up with memory block size and most importantly cluster size and strikes a good balance for space use efficiency. 4K is the default cluster size for most operating systems. A cluster is the smallest piece of data the that will be written to the disk by the operating system.

As has been mentioned, the _only_ problem is when a particular operating does its partitioning without any awareness of 4K boundaries and the 8 to 1 mapping gets skewed by 512 bytes, let's say. Since the operating system is writing out 4K clusters that data will now have to span 2 of the 4K sectors. The operating system is happily writing out the 4K cluster 512 bytes at a time as usual (via the emulation) and when the harddrive controller gets the final 512 it goes oops, have to start on an entire new 4K sector. That is when you get the Read-Modify-Write bottleneck mentioned earlier in what should have been a single write by the drive controller. Addtionally, you get the space usage inefficiency of what is in effect a 8K sector. Every 4K cluster of data will take 2 4K sectors. Bad on both counts.

This partition alignment problem _only_ occurs with Windows XP and earlier (and its server cousin Server 2003). It is _not_ a concern for TiVo (and Linux and Mac) users and it is not even a serious problem for XP users since there are utilities to fix it. As users have testified, there are no problems using 4K sector drives with the TiVo since the Tivo has _no_ partition alignment issues and by the end of this year there will be no new 512 sector drive models anyway.

There was a good article at anandtech.com about all this sometime last year if interested. The point here is that this needs to be a dead issue as far as the TiVo is concerned.


----------



## richsadams

jlib said:


> Just a comment about the new 4K format drives. All these new drives appear to the OS exactly the same as the previous generation drives because they all emulate the old 512 sector format by default. The internal overhead for the drive controller is more efficient, though, and ultimately will allow larger drive sizes.
> 
> The point here is that this needs to be a dead issue as far as the TiVo is concerned.


Wow...excellent summary. So simple even a caveman (me for instance) can get it. Thanks for that. :up:

Hopefully *bkdtv* can modify the FAQ, removing the reference to the possible 4K sector "problem" and adding Western Digital's WDXXEARS series to the recommended drive list. (I haven't seen him around here of late and will send him a PM.)

Thanks again!


----------



## tcfcameron

It's my understanding several people on here posess a copy of the 2TB "Broflovski" / Hybrid TiVo HD Image. I am asking for you to share it with me. Pretty Please?

I have spent months trying to get a hold of anything that would let me use the full capacity of the 2TB drives I bought for my TiVo HD (TCD652160) units. I consider this a last-resort.

I already spent my money on WD20EADS drives, which are already in-use and working perfectly (except that I'm only able to use half of the capacity). There's no point in telling me about dvr_dude on eBay, or pointing me to any of the web shops selling pre-imaged drives, as I already have the drives I bought, which were purchased BEFORE any of these options were available (I was OK with 1/2 capacity at the time, given the price I got on the drives). I already tried the efnet/ftp route, but that did not provide anything that addresses the >1TB issue.

I promise to abide by the author's wishes that the image not be made publicly accessable (keeping it off all the public file-sharing sites that I have been searching for it on, etc.)

A reply, whether yay or nay, would be greatly appreciated.

-Update: I have met the required 5 posts to be able to send/receive PMs now.

Thanks in advance,
Cameron (tcfcameron)
groupsposter (at) gmail (dot) com


----------



## ThreeSoFar

I don't have it (yet), so can't help you. Just in case you weren't aware, though (sounds like you know this already), you'll lose all your current content with the new image, FYI.

PS: Please PM me, as well, as I'd like this image, as well.

Good luck!



tcfcameron said:


> It's my understanding several people on here posess a copy of the 2TB "Broflovski" / Hybrid TiVo HD Image. I am asking for you to share it with me. Pretty Please?
> 
> I have spent months trying to get a hold of anything that would let me use the full capacity of the 2TB drives I bought for my TiVo HD (TCD652160) units. I consider this a last-resort.
> 
> I already spent my money on WD20EADS drives, which are already in-use and working perfectly (except that I'm only able to use half of the capacity). There's no point in telling me about dvr_dude on eBay, or pointing me to any of the web shops selling pre-imaged drives, as I already have the drives I bought, which were purchased BEFORE any of these options were available (I was OK with 1/2 capacity at the time, given the price I got on the drives). I already tried the efnet/ftp route, but that did not provide anything that addresses the >1TB issue.
> 
> I promise to abide by the author's wishes that the image not be made publicly accessable (keeping it off all the public file-sharing sites that I have been searching for it on, etc.)
> 
> A reply, whether yay or nay, would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Cameron (tcfcameron)
> groupsposter (at) gmail (dot) com


----------



## tcfcameron

ThreeSoFar said:


> I don't have it (yet), so can't help you. Just in case you weren't aware, though (sounds like you know this already), you'll lose all your current content with the new image, FYI.
> 
> PS: Please PM me, as well, as I'd like this image, as well.
> 
> Good luck!


I am aware of that. But, thank you for pointing it out, just in case. Part of why I'm asking here, is that I'm going to do some "swapping around" (I have two PLS TiVos and two monthly sub TiVos) and will lose everything, anyway. If I'm going to have to start from scratch, again, it would be a big plus to nearly double useable recording capacity as well.


----------



## tcfcameron

It's my understanding several people on here posess a copy of the 2TB "Broflovski" / Hybrid TiVo HD Image. I am asking for you to share it with me. Pretty Please?

I have spent months trying to get a hold of anything that would let me use the full capacity of the 2TB drives I bought for my TiVo HD (TCD652160) units. I consider this a last-resort.

I already spent my money on WD20EADS drives, which are already in-use and working perfectly (except that I'm only able to use half of the capacity). There's no point in telling me about dvr_dude on eBay, or pointing me to any of the web shops selling pre-imaged drives, as I already have the drives I bought, which were purchased BEFORE any of these options were available (I was OK with 1/2 capacity at the time, given the price I got on the drives). I already tried the efnet/ftp route, but that did not provide anything that addresses the >1TB issue.

I promise to abide by the author's wishes that the image not be made publicly accessable (keeping it off all the public file-sharing sites that I have been searching for it on, etc.)

Any responses, whether yay or nay, would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance


----------



## rocko

tcfcameron said:


> -Update: I have met the required 5 posts to be able to send/receive PMs now.


You might look for Mr. Brevowski (however it's spelled) and send him a PM directly - he might not be following this thead.


----------



## tcfcameron

rocko said:


> You might look for Mr. Brevowski (however it's spelled) and send him a PM directly - he might not be following this thead.


That could have been a great suggestion...

However, he was asked to stop distributing it (cease & decist, or something to that effect), but he asked that those who he already gave it to, share it with others who need it, just so long as it stays that way, and doesn't wind up out-in-the-wild on any public filesharing or FTP sites.

Aparently those who have it are reluctant to share, or I would have received a PM by now


----------



## Mr. Broflovski

tcfcameron said:


> That could have been a great suggestion...
> 
> However, he was asked to stop distributing it (cease & decist, or something to that effect), but he asked that those who he already gave it to, share it with others who need it, just so long as it stays that way, and doesn't wind up out-in-the-wild on any public filesharing or FTP sites.
> 
> Aparently those who have it are reluctant to share, or I would have received a PM by now


C&D? 

please stop thread-crapping and have patience

./resume_stealth_mode &


----------



## tcfcameron

Mr. Broflovski said:


> C&D?
> 
> please stop thread-crapping and have patience


Sorry, I just REALLY want/need to get it and see if it works (and continues working after a few TiVo software updates). I'm on a deadline, imposed by the others in the house (who use my other three TiVos), to get this done, like yesterday.

I promise that I will delete all my duplicate posts and threads as soon as somebody steps-up and shares it with me. If that doesn't happen soon, I'll still go back and delete them all.

My aploogies for "thread-crapping", as you put it. But, please, at least take into consideration that I just registered with TCF a few days ago & the MINIMUM post requirements here. The forums wouldn't let me do squat without 5 posts, then another 5 to gain more functionality, and I think another 5 more to become a fully functional member. My duplicity was born more from getting those initial posts out of the way than anything else. If it weren't for that, I'd have posted in a maximum of three of most appropriate existing threads I could find.


----------



## sneagle

Help...

I am upgrading my 2 Tivo HDs with *WinMFS *using a *Thermatake BlackXDuet* connected by USB. The new drives are Western Digital Cavier Black 1TB-*WD10000LSRTL*.
*OS:* Windows 7

The first Tivo went perfect and the Tivo is up and running. The second Tivo copied to the new drive fine then WinMFS asked if I wanted to expand the drive. I clicked yes and then WinMFS _crashed_

I rebooted and ran copy again and the same thing happened. 

Any suggestions?


----------



## richsadams

sneagle said:


> I am upgrading my 2 Tivo HDs with *WinMFS *using a *Thermatake BlackXDuet* connected by USB. The new drives are Western Digital Cavier Black <snip>


That sounds frustrating. If all things are equal between the two upgrades my first thought is that you have a bad drive. It sounds like winMFS is unable to create the proper partitions. You could try running Western Digital's Lifeguard diagnostic to see if the drive is the problem.

Otherwise when you say that winMFS "crashed", exactly what happened?

Curios, why did you go with that particular drive? WD's GP drives are quieter, run cooler (are usually less expensive) and TiVo isn't able to take advantage of a 7200RPM drive's speed. Just wondering.


----------



## sneagle

I chose those drives because:
1. I thought the green drives were not good for the Tivo
2. That's what they had at MicroCenter for $105 each
3. Reading at MicroCenter on my iPhone seemed to confirm that the drives would work

What happened was Windows came up with an error saying WinMFS has crashed. And WinMFS was sort of grey'd out.

Meanwhile, I rebooted the computer a bunch of times and re-started the BlacXDuet. I tried the expand again and it worked. I can't explain it. I finished the steps and the Tivo booted fine. It has all my shows and system info says 157hr of HD.

So, I guess it was a false alarm. Thanks for the help and sorry I took up everyone's time.


----------



## richsadams

sneagle said:


> I chose those drives because:
> 1. I thought the green drives were not good for the Tivo
> 2. That's what they had at MicroCenter for $105 each
> 3. Reading at MicroCenter on my iPhone seemed to confirm that the drives would work
> 
> What happened was Windows came up with an error saying WinMFS has crashed. And WinMFS was sort of grey'd out.
> 
> Meanwhile, I rebooted the computer a bunch of times and re-started the BlacXDuet. I tried the expand again and it worked. I can't explain it. I finished the steps and the Tivo booted fine. It has all my shows and system info says 157hr of HD.
> 
> So, I guess it was a false alarm. Thanks for the help and sorry I took up everyone's time.


Excellent news! Sometimes you never know exactly what gremlins clog up the system.

I forgot to ask, did you run wdidle.exe? If not, have you tried a soft reboot (TiVo Central > Messages and Settings > Restart or Reset System > Restart the DVR)? Did you adjust the AAM to 128? If not, how's the sound?

I'm sure you'll be happy with those drives, however TiVo's OEM drives are 5400RPM with a minuscule 2MB of cache, so anything much beyond that isn't really necessary. The 1TB WDXXEARS models are going for around $60 or so on sale now. Probably not what you wanted to hear, but for anyone else thinking about upgrading there's no need to get the fastest, highest performing hard drive on the market...TiVo just can't take advantage of their speed or bells and whistles.

Glad to hear things are working now. Enjoy your "new" Tivo's! :up:


----------



## sneagle

richsadams said:


> Excellent news! Sometimes you never know exactly what gremlins clog up the system
> 
> ....Did you adjust the AAM to 128? If not, how's the sound?


Loud in the bedroom. I am trying to adjust the AAM but it seems that the tools suggested will not recognize the drive when it is attached to the BlacXDuet. 



richsadams said:


> ...The 1TB WDXXEARS models are going for around $60 or so on sale now. Probably not what you wanted to hear, but for anyone else thinking about upgrading there's no need to get the fastest, highest performing hard drive on the market...TiVo just can't take advantage of their speed or bells and whistles.


Another  But I still feel like I saved money by avoiding the UMF and getting a Premiere. Plus by getting them locally, I had them in my paws immediately!



richsadams said:


> Glad to hear things are working now. Enjoy your "new" Tivo's! :up:


Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

sneagle said:


> Loud in the bedroom. I am trying to adjust the AAM but it seems that the tools suggested will not recognize the drive when it is attached to the BlacXDuet.


Unfortunately as noted in the FAQ



> Note Hitachi Feature Tool only works on SATA and eSATA connected drives; it does not work on USB connected drives.


So you'll need to find a PC with an open SATA port if you want to adjust the AAM.

Did you get to try the soft reboot? The reason I ask is that we've had mixed reports of the newer WD drives no longer having the soft reboot hanging issue and I was just curious to know if your drives exhibited the problem or not.


----------



## sneagle

I was able to get HDDSCan to recognize the drives using USB. There was a little more finagling involved including a seeming minor change in the eSATA setting on the BIOS. I also think that the BlacXDuet needs to be 'restarted' on reboot by unplugging and plugging back in. Not sure if that is true, but that did seem to help with my troubles.

Bottom line both drives are set for AAM 128. The bedroom has restarted and seems to be working fine. The living room drive is sitting next to me anxiously waiting to be reinstalled.

Soft reset on the Tivo...WD hanging on reboot? Sounds scary? What is the cure? THe bedroom Tivo is not doing a soft reboot...I will report back.

P.S. I think the Tivo is 'snappier' with the new, FASTER drive!


----------



## sneagle

Soft reboot went smooth. Both Tivo's up and running. 

I am sad I waited so long to upgrade. My last upgrade experience was with my DirecTivo's and required taking drives out of the computer and blah, blah, blah.

WinMFS is AWESOME.


----------



## richsadams

sneagle said:


> Soft reboot went smooth. Both Tivo's up and running.
> 
> I am sad I waited so long to upgrade. My last upgrade experience was with my DirecTivo's and required taking drives out of the computer and blah, blah, blah.
> 
> WinMFS is AWESOME.


Great news! I should have explained the soft reboot issue. Basically it means that if you perform a manual restart from the TiVo menu TiVo would hang at the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen. A hard reboot (unplug TiVo and plug it back in) would resolve things. It began appearing with WD drives about a year ago when Western Digital introduced an enhanced "Intellipark" power saving feature. To resolve things a little program, wdidle.exe, has or had to be run to disable Intellipark or extend the timeout period. (More details in the FAQ). It wouldn't be a big deal except for the fact that when TiVo issues an update, TiVo has to reboot...the same process as a restart. That meant if there was a problem TiVo would reboot but hang at the "Welcome" screen until the owner power-cycled it. In the meantime it wouldn't be recording anything, etc. and that's not a good thing. As mentioned after a somewhat recent TiVo software upgrade and apparently adjustments to WD's line of drives, it's no longer an issue, at least for some drives. Glad to hear that it's not a problem for yours. :up:

To clarify, you were able to adjust the AAM to 128 with your dock connected via USB?

Okay, thanks much for the feedback and now go enjoy some TiVo!


----------



## sneagle

*Soft reboot:* PASSED on Bedroom unit - did not have to diddle it 
*AAM 128*: Set on both units using the USB connection
*Family response:* Meh. They did not seem impressed or to care.  I'll teach them by deleting their shows anyway!


----------



## kdigit0l

Thanks for this thread! Just upgraded my TiVoHD to 1TB with the Hitachi HD31000 with AAM set to the recommended level of quiet performance. The upgrade works well, was easy to perform, and is so much better thanthe 500GB Western Digital MyDVR Expander solution we employed before (which recently failed on us after the warranty expired). I can't recommend this upgrade enough to anybody with the even the slightest bit of PC knowledge.

Thanks Again!


----------



## richsadams

kdigit0l said:


> Thanks for this thread! <snip>


Congrats and enjoy!


----------



## richsadams

sneagle said:


> *Soft reboot:* PASSED on Bedroom unit - did not have to diddle it
> *AAM 128*: Set on both units using the USB connection
> *Family response:* Meh. They did not seem impressed or to care.  I'll teach them by deleting their shows anyway!


All good news. The family will begin to appreciate it when they can save an entire season of their favorite shows...and still have room for more. Enjoy!


----------



## TiVo Bob W

richsadams said:


> Oh, got it now. Yes, that can be done because you are essentially going to copy everything from your original hard drive to the new one and then expand the partitions using the MFSLive boot CD. The eSATA drive shouldn't know the difference. That said I have never tried it so I don't want to give any misleading advice, but I know others here have done it and hopefully will chime in.
> 
> For more info you could visit Spike's website and forum (Spike is the author of winMFS, MFSLive, etc.)...
> 
> http://www.mfslive.org
> http://www.mfslive.org/forums/
> 
> Let us know how it goes!


Well, I have tried to swap my internal drive for a larger one with no luck. I have tried different ways and posted my results over at mfsLive.org. I would love to hear any and all suggestions.

I am starting to believe the following in the FAQ is incorrect:


> Can I upgrade the built-in hard drive with a larger model without affecting my eSATA drive?
> 
> You can do that with the MFSLive bootCD if you are still using the original, factory-installed TiVo drive. You cannot do this if the internal drive was previously upgraded. Note this capability is not yet supported in WinMFS, but it could be added in a future version. Credit to spike2k5 for this answer.


Thanks, Bob


----------



## richsadams

TiVo Bob W said:


> Well, I have tried to swap my internal drive for a larger one with no luck. I have tried different ways and posted my results over at mfsLive.org. I would love to hear any and all suggestions.
> 
> I am starting to believe the following in the FAQ is incorrect:
> 
> Thanks, Bob


Sorry that things aren't going as planned. Not having done exactly what you're attempting I'm afraid I can't offer any more advice. Hopefully other folks will be able to help. Best of luck!


----------



## ThreeSoFar

TiVo Bob W said:


> Well, I have tried to swap my internal drive for a larger one with no luck. I have tried different ways and posted my results over at mfsLive.org. I would love to hear any and all suggestions.
> 
> I am starting to believe the following in the FAQ is incorrect:
> 
> Thanks, Bob


I've used exclusively the Linux version of the MFS tools over the years, but never have had a married drive (external or internal), I've always had a single drive.

But I took a look over at the other thread and I don't understand how the error is talking about /dev/hdc when your command line pointed elsewhere. Did you try that command without any /dev/hdX drives plugged in? Literally just unplug any drives but your SATA TiVo drives.


----------



## TiVo Bob W

ThreeSoFar said:


> But I took a look over at the other thread and I don't understand how the error is talking about /dev/hdc when your command line pointed elsewhere. Did you try that command without any /dev/hdX drives plugged in? Literally just unplug any drives but your SATA TiVo drives.


Only drives connected where the TiVo SATA drives and the IDE CD drive to boot from. The error message does not make sense to me either?!?

Bob


----------



## VSG

Hey there,

I've been tinkering with tivo's for years, and last I ended up with a 1.5tb albeit limited to 1tb plus the org. 250gb that the series 3 has. I wanted to do 1tb + 1tb external, but to save all my recordings, but without success. 

I got the new 11h update, and I tried out not limiting to 1tb, and it worked fine. I'm not sure what signs to watch out for? That gave me about 237HD hours as far as I can remember.

One day at Fry's I saw a 2tb seagate 5900rpm on sale for 109 with a 5 year warranty. I thought, what the heck? Let's try it! Well? It works great! Very low noise, much lower than the 1.5gb seagate that I tried.

So what gives? I used winmfs, and everything seems to work fine? It's been running for about 1 week now with tons of downloads and recordings. All great with normal temps. 

Did tivo remove the 1tb limit in the 11h update, or am I treading on thin ice?


edit 8/15/10 12noon:
Oh, I was able to successfully copy over all the shows from a very very full 1.5tb wd to the new 2tb seagate in very little time (8 hours?)


----------



## Robin

Another success story!

I've upgraded a s1 and s2 DirecTiVo in the past and have been threatening to upgrade my s3 HD for a while. Amazon's $55 for the WD10EARS finally gave me the shove I needed and I put it in this morning. Smoothest upgrade yet! I ran the wdidle and it runs through a soft boot just fine.

Thanks! :up:


----------



## tcfcameron

I'd really love to hear more about this (from anybody), since I'm still trying to get a copy of the >1TB capable hybrid (aka "Broflovski image") for my TiVo HDs to make use of the full 2TB of my WD20EADS drives. It sounds like you had to use an 11.0h image to get the full capacity, if I am reading right. You also have a S3, so no guarantee that I could make this happen on a TiVo HD.

I have heard that you can opt to expand all the way there, and things will work fine, until you hit the point that the drive is full and it needs to delete programs to make room. That's where everything goes to hell, from what I've read here, as well as elsewhere.

Anybody else try this out yet? I'm not exactly getting flooded with PM's offering up the Hybrid/Broflovski image, which I thought was my only shot at full capacity.



VSG said:


> Hey there,
> 
> I've been tinkering with tivo's for years, and last I ended up with a 1.5tb albeit limited to 1tb plus the org. 250gb that the series 3 has. I wanted to do 1tb + 1tb external, but to save all my recordings, but without success.
> 
> I got the new 11h update, and I tried out not limiting to 1tb, and it worked fine. I'm not sure what signs to watch out for? That gave me about 237HD hours as far as I can remember.
> 
> One day at Fry's I saw a 2tb seagate 5900rpm on sale for 109 with a 5 year warranty. I thought, what the heck? Let's try it! Well? It works great! Very low noise, much lower than the 1.5gb seagate that I tried.
> 
> So what gives? I used winmfs, and everything seems to work fine? It's been running for about 1 week now with tons of downloads and recordings. All great with normal temps.
> 
> Did tivo remove the 1tb limit in the 11h update, or am I treading on thin ice?
> 
> 
> edit 8/15/10 12noon:
> Oh, I was able to successfully copy over all the shows from a very very full 1.5tb wd to the new 2tb seagate in very little time (8 hours?)


----------



## VSG

Well, we'll find out very soon, since my S3 is taping a LOT of shows...

In the other end of the house my HD is action up...after asking it to tape 50 SPs and about 25 how to's....it sends a message after each request, and now restarts when I try to read the messages. 

I can't remember if I've tried not limiting the tivo before. If it will in fact go crazy when full, I certainly feel like a fool, albeit a very experienced one...


----------



## richsadams

VSG said:


> I can't remember if I've tried not limiting the tivo before. If it will in fact go crazy when full, I certainly feel like a fool, albeit a very experienced one...


That's really interesting. I'd also like to hear how things progress with your Series3 "natural" 2TB upgrade.

BTW, is this the drive you're using...

http://bit.ly/aLsnf1

TIA! :up:


----------



## richsadams

Robin said:


> Another success story!
> 
> I've upgraded a s1 and s2 DirecTiVo in the past and have been threatening to upgrade my s3 HD for a while. Amazon's $55 for the WD10EARS finally gave me the shove I needed and I put it in this morning. Smoothest upgrade yet! I ran the wdidle and it runs through a soft boot just fine.
> 
> Thanks! :up:


Congrats and enjoy!


----------



## aaronwt

richsadams said:


> That's really interesting. I'd also like to hear how things progress with your Series3 "natural" 2TB upgrade.
> 
> BTW, is this the drive you're using...
> 
> http://bit.ly/aLsnf1
> 
> TIA! :up:


So is that the famous hard drive that uses tape?


----------



## richsadams

aaronwt said:


> So is that the famous hard drive that uses tape?


No...it's an "LP" drive...vinyl all the way!


----------



## VSG

richsadams said:


> That's really interesting. I'd also like to hear how things progress with your Series3 "natural" 2TB upgrade.
> 
> BTW, is this the drive you're using...
> 
> TIA! :up:


I bought the seagate st320005n4a1as-rk, sorry I'm not able to post a link yet....

and it's VERY quiet, much to my surprise! I see that people are jumping all over Seagate with the exception of their AV drives, but if temps stay down, it's hard to argue with their 5 year warranty.

I would prefer the WD20EVDS, but I haven't found it in stock too many places... ZIPZOOMFLY is backordered @129.... I just happened to be in the B&M Fry's and the Seagate was on sale.


----------



## tcfcameron

I have been patient, Mr. Broflovski. Much more so, after you smacked me upside the head for "thread crapping", and told me to be patient. Since you will no longer accept PM requests for the image, could you point me in the direction of some image holders who you think won't be bothered by me PMing them with a request for it? I had one offer it up, who would only provide it to me if I could provide them with private login credentials for a private FTP server. I don't run a FTP server, nor do I know of one that is private, that I could somehow give credentials for and keep it private.

I want to respect your wishes with regards to the image being kept private, among those who have it and those who they trust to give it to. It's my understanding that it's in several split files, but they are still too large to email. I have "Trillian", an excellent & free IM/IRC/ICQ program that has private file transfer as an option, but requires the other person to be running it as well (which is a bit much to expect -somebody installing a program that they don't have or necessarily trust just to do this one-off transfer).

So, Mr Broflovski, how did you share it in the first place? If I knew that, maybe I could know how to get it shared in my direction? Do I need to find some ftp software and take a crash course in being an ftp server admin? I think my ISP may actually block me from even doing so, but I'm not sure.

Again, once I have a working/validated copy in my possession, all my posts and threads regarding it will be deleted.

And help/advice you give me will be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks in advance.



Mr. Broflovski said:


> I have created an image that is usable with WinMFS and is not subject to these limitations, and will work with hard drives up to 2.0TB in size. Any interested parties with a TivoHD and hard drive > 1TB are welcome to PM me.
> 
> ***EDIT : 5/16***
> 
> I will no longer be offering this image via PM.
> 
> Several community members have a copy at this point, if you are in need of a copy, please make a public request and I'm sure someone will help (please don't threadcrap all over this thread though, there are image begging threads here).


----------



## GPT999

So, I went through the steps for upgrading both an internal ( WD specified as a good choice here) and I tried to marry it with an external eSata 1 Tb Seagate Free Agent Pro that I originally had as a expansion drive for my Direct TV DVR. After going through the steps ( using mfs utility just using the mfsadd to add the external hdd, since I was upgrading from the org TIVO drive), the TIVO unit gets stuck at the "Powering up" Sunrise screen. First time up, the external HDD did not seem to power on ( I know it won't show power until computer or device connected to it powers up). But then it started to show power after a a few miuntes. I reset power to both units ( TIVO and external HDD) but still can't get by "powering Up".

Any ideas? Is the Seagate External incompatible b/c of internals or b/c it was used as the Direct TV system? I would think the TIVO would reformat the drive space or do I need to do something else like some sort of Linux format of the drive? 

Thanks for any advice at this point. I will pop the drives back out later this week and hopefully will have some good choices to follow from all of you knowledgeable people.


----------



## richsadams

tcfcameron said:


> If you want to speed things up, just transfer some shows from another TiVo, or from TiVo Desktop. I'd go crazy after too long just waiting for SPs and other recordings to fill it up.


Agreed...we have no patience around here. 

I'd turn TiVo Suggestions on...that should fill it up very quickly.


----------



## richsadams

GPT999 said:


> So, I went through the steps for upgrading both an internal ( WD specified as a good choice here) and I tried to marry it with an external eSata 1 Tb Seagate Free Agent Pro that I originally had as a expansion drive for my Direct TV DVR. After going through the steps ( using mfs utility just using the mfsadd to add the external hdd, since I was upgrading from the org TIVO drive), the TIVO unit gets stuck at the "Powering up" Sunrise screen. First time up, the external HDD did not seem to power on ( I know it won't show power until computer or device connected to it powers up). But then it started to show power after a a few miuntes. I reset power to both units ( TIVO and external HDD) but still can't get by "powering Up".
> 
> Any ideas? Is the Seagate External incompatible b/c of internals or b/c it was used as the Direct TV system? I would think the TIVO would reformat the drive space or do I need to do something else like some sort of Linux format of the drive?
> 
> Thanks for any advice at this point. I will pop the drives back out later this week and hopefully will have some good choices to follow from all of you knowledgeable people.


Welcome to the Forum. Seagate FAP's have been problematic with TiVo's since the original KS62 hack a few years ago (yikes, has it been that long?!). They either didn't work at all or ended up failing very quickly. No one cause was ever determined (overheating was one problem) but they were specifically _not_ recommended as expansion drives and that still stands. They just don't play nice with TiVo.

When TiVo hangs on the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen it means that the motherboard cannot communicate with the hard drive. In other words TiVo has to be able to communicate with both the internal and external hard drives immediately on powering up. Based on your post it doesn't sound like the FAP is fully spinning when you boot TiVo?

In any case, I'd avoid using the FAP. There were a few people that successfully used one version or another for a time but the overwhelming majority failed.


----------



## VSG

I caught this news on techbargains.com ...Just ordered one...something to compare to the Seagate...I wouldn't bother with externals like the freeagent...just another failure point. If I can't get my 2tb to work correctly, I Will reuse my 2 x 1tb (1 in a rosewill fan exc)


----------



## VSG

forgot to mention for new people.. the EARS still probably will require wdidle3.exe, and are not as good as the EVDS series...but a whole lot cheaper...


----------



## richsadams

VSG said:


> forgot to mention for new people.. the EARS still probably will require wdidle3.exe, and are not as good as the EVDS series...but a whole lot cheaper...


Nice find earlier...I saw that and thought about posting, but didn't want to get everyone _too_ excited.  It's amazing that 2TB can be had for <$100 now. 

FWIW there's actually very little difference between WD's EARS and EVDS drive series as far as TiVo is concerned. The nice thing about the EVDS is that the AAM is already tuned to 128...although both are very quiet out of the box.


----------



## ThAbtO

richsadams said:


> No...it's an "LP" drive...vinyl all the way!


Wonder if his digital camera still uses film.


----------



## MPSAN

tcfcameron said:


> I have been patient, Mr. Broflovski. Much more so, after you smacked me upside the head for "thread crapping", and told me to be patient. Since you will no longer accept PM requests for the image, could you point me in the direction of some image holders who you think won't be bothered by me PMing them with a request for it? I had one offer it up, who would only provide it to me if I could provide them with private login credentials for a private FTP server. I don't run a FTP server, nor do I know of one that is private, that I could somehow give credentials for and keep it private.
> 
> I want to respect your wishes with regards to the image being kept private, among those who have it and those who they trust to give it to. It's my understanding that it's in several split files, but they are still too large to email. I have "Trillian", an excellent & free IM/IRC/ICQ program that has private file transfer as an option, but requires the other person to be running it as well (which is a bit much to expect -somebody installing a program that they don't have or necessarily trust just to do this one-off transfer).
> 
> So, Mr Broflovski, how did you share it in the first place? If I knew that, maybe I could know how to get it shared in my direction? Do I need to find some ftp software and take a crash course in being an ftp server admin? I think my ISP may actually block me from even doing so, but I'm not sure.
> 
> Again, once I have a working/validated copy in my possession, all my posts and threads regarding it will be deleted.
> 
> And help/advice you give me will be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks in advance.


You are making too much out of this! You do not need a server. All you need is someone to upload the files to MediaFire and send you the link!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> You are making too much out of this! You do not need a server. All you need is someone to upload the files to MediaFire and send you the link!


Oh, come on now! You take all of the fun out of being evil.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Oh, come on now! You take all of the fun out of being evil.


Well, I guess that is one way to think about it. 
Rich, have you ever had any issues with 508? I noticed that KGW was locked up last night. I went back about 15 seconds and all was OK, but when it came to the end of the buffer it just froze again. The other tuner was fine. I switched back to 508 and it was still locked. I went up to 510 and all was OK. I went back to 508 and it, too, was OK. Have you ever had this? Can one station cause 1 tuner/buffer to lock up? All is OK now.


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Well, I guess that is one way to think about it.
> Rich, have you ever had any issues with 508? I noticed that KGW was locked up last night. I went back about 15 seconds and all was OK, but when it came to the end of the buffer it just froze again. The other tuner was fine. I switched back to 508 and it was still locked. I went up to 510 and all was OK. I went back to 508 and it, too, was OK. Have you ever had this? Can one station cause 1 tuner/buffer to lock up? All is OK now.


To be honest, I've been noticing a number of issues. So has another TCF member in Gresham. Initially I thought my Premiere XL was acting up, but it turns out Frontier has been making some changes. I'll PM you since it would be a bit OT here.


----------



## GPT999

Guess I didn't do my due diligence in checking compatibility of the TIVO HD with the Free Agent Pro, but I had one hanging around. I am curious if anyone got this to work at all ( Thanks Rich for the response). I also saw on another forum there may have been an issue with firmware or the enclosure? The person had taken the HDD out of the FAP enclosure and stuck it in a external enclosure with power switch to get it to work. Not sure if they also modified the drive firmware as well to tell it not to sleep. If anyone got this to work, please email if not want to post. Trying to save that extra $$ and use this FAP if possible, but I would buy an enclosure for it. Thanks again...


----------



## richsadams

GPT999 said:


> Guess I didn't do my due diligence in checking compatibility of the TIVO HD with the Free Agent Pro, but I had one hanging around. I am curious if anyone got this to work at all ( Thanks Rich for the response). I also saw on another forum there may have been an issue with firmware or the enclosure? The person had taken the HDD out of the FAP enclosure and stuck it in a external enclosure with power switch to get it to work. Not sure if they also modified the drive firmware as well to tell it not to sleep. If anyone got this to work, please email if not want to post. Trying to save that extra $$ and use this FAP if possible, but I would buy an enclosure for it. Thanks again...


You should be able to pull the drive and place it in another enclosure such as the recommended Antec MX-1. Since the drive is running 24/7 there's no opportunity for it to spin down so no worries about "sleep mode".

However I still wouldn't go down that road. There's no guarantee that it will work properly (although I can't think of a reason why it wouldn't) and being a used drive its lifespan may or may not be near an end. (All recordings are lost if it fails.)

If you're determined to add an external drive I'd pick up a 1TB Fantom Green eSATA drive. They employ a WD GP hard drive and there are a number of folks successfully using them here. IIRC unlike most external drives Fantom has a two-year warranty. On sale the cost isn't much more than an empty enclosure. You can get one for $49.99 AR w/free shipping right now...

http://bit.ly/DPWMD

Looks like they're out of stock at the moment, but the drive is very popular so I'd think they'll have it again very soon. Onsale.com had them for $59 the other day, no rebate, etc. If you keep your eyes open you can usually find them for about that price.

Just a thought. Let us know what you end up doing.


----------



## Joe3

GPT999 said:


> Guess I didn't do my due diligence in checking compatibility of the TIVO HD with the Free Agent Pro, but I had one hanging around. I am curious if anyone got this to work at all ( Thanks Rich for the response). I also saw on another forum there may have been an issue with firmware or the enclosure? The person had taken the HDD out of the FAP enclosure and stuck it in a external enclosure with power switch to get it to work. Not sure if they also modified the drive firmware as well to tell it not to sleep. If anyone got this to work, please email if not want to post. Trying to save that extra $$ and use this FAP if possible, but I would buy an enclosure for it. Thanks again...


I didn't think it would work when I took my Free Agent Pro apart. But for me it worked. I didn't have to modified the drive firmware.
As a matter of fact 2 to 3 years after its original death in its own enclosure it's doing well and still going strong in its new enclosure. I kid you not, its been 8 years of constant use connected to my Series 3. However, I went retail for the new enclosure so if it did not work I could return it with some excuse of how it doesn't fit.

or what ever Rich says, he's one of the Maharishi's I follow. But 50 bucks is 50 bucks.


----------



## GPT999

Joe3 said:


> I didn't think it would work when I took my Free Agent Pro apart. But for me it worked. I didn't have to modified the drive firmware.
> As a matter of fact 2 to 3 years after its original death in its own enclosure it's doing well and still going strong in its new enclosure. I kid you not, its been 8 years of constant use connected to my Series 3. However, I went retail for the new enclosure so if it did not work I could return it with some excuse of how it doesn't fit.
> 
> or what ever Rich says, he's one of the Maharishis I follow. But 50 bucks is 50 bucks.


Hey Joe, What did you end with for an enclosure? Did get one with on/off switch or... Thx for the info... Would a sledge hammer be too big a tool to open the FAP?


----------



## richsadams

GPT999 said:


> Did get one with on/off switch or...


FWIW an on/off switch really isn't an option.


----------



## richsadams

Joe3 said:


> I kid you not, its been 8 years of constant use connected to my Series 3.


That's pretty amazing and great to hear! Wow!


----------



## Marconi

Joe3 said:


> I its been 8 years of constant use connected to my Series 3.


If your drive is eight years old, it needs to be replaced.



Joe3 said:


> or what ever Rich says, he's one of the Maharishis I follow. But 50 bucks is 50 bucks.


And 50 bucks is more than your recordings are worth to you? Seriously, hard drives should be replaced every 3-5 years at most.


----------



## Joe3

Marconi said:


> If your drive is eight years old, it needs to be replaced.
> 
> And 50 bucks is more than your recordings are worth to you? Seriously, hard drives should be replaced every 3-5 years at most.


no doubt, but I did back up what I thought I would never see again if my luck ran out. 



GPT999 said:


> Hey Joe, ... Would a sledge hammer be too big a tool to open the FAP?


The FAP opened up rather easily since it was frozen and don't ask.


----------



## ThAbtO

Joe3 said:


> The FAP opened up rather easily since it was frozen and don't ask.


Oh goodie, time for some Tivo surgery... Who brought the anesthesia?


----------



## richsadams

Joe3 said:


> The FAP opened up rather easily since it was frozen and don't ask.


The old throw the hard drive in the freezer and it'll recover trick gone terribly wrong eh?


----------



## MPSAN

Marconi said:


> If your drive is eight years old, it needs to be replaced.


Well, that may have more to do with TiVo's OS than the drive. However, there is not much you can do about it!


----------



## ThreeSoFar

MPSAN said:


> Well, that may have more to do with TiVo's OS than the drive. However, there is not much you can do about it!


Huh?

No, it doesn't. Drives have limited lifetimes. Eight years is way beyond that limit.


----------



## MPSAN

ThreeSoFar said:


> Huh?
> 
> No, it doesn't. Drives have limited lifetimes. Eight years is way beyond that limit.


Nope, 70,000 hours is not "way beyond that limit". Anyway, any further input on my part, and I can elaborate, would be way Off Topic here.


----------



## VSG

I see 1 partition of 1.7tb....everything works fine. 

What are the signs of it not working again?


----------



## richsadams

Per my earlier post onsale.com has the Fantom 1TB eSATA drive on sale for $49.99 AR...

http://bit.ly/9RF2dd

NOTE: This will only work as an expansion drive via plug and play with the original TiVo Series3. Otherwise it must be "married" to a TiVo HD or HDXL using winMFS or MFStools. See the FAQ for more info.


----------



## VSG

Finally starting to fill up the 2tb drive...181 shows in recently deleted, and going down...no problems what so ever. 1 small issue, that I couldn't find any real good stuff on in the search is pixelation ONLY in the blue screens, i.e. account status etc...but of course that's there with all my hard drives so I'm thinking the power strips that is shared with the tuning adapter. I might just relocate the 2 and give them separate plugs in the APC UPS.


----------



## VSG

I also wanted to do some more precise testing of hard drive temps, but since I'm in Phoenix Arizona, it might strike others as odd that it's 48c inside the tivo....

I simply switched around the sata plugs and put the nice 2tb green drive in a fan driven enclosure. Let the testing begin.


----------



## richsadams

VSG said:


> ..but of course that's there with all my hard drives so I'm thinking the power strips that is shared with the tuning adapter. I might just relocate the 2 and give them separate plugs in the APC UPS.


I don't know if that will cure the menu pixelization (I'm really curious to know if it does), but having TiVo on a UPS is very wise move IMHO. :up: Or maybe I misunderstood and you already do. Either way...UPS goooood.


----------



## VSG

Hi Rich,

I think I paid around $700 for my series 3 with lifetime....I don't recall the #....but they let me "transfer" the ser 2 lifetime....for $200? Geez, the exact #'s really are slipping me by...either way, I knew I had something special. I spent $65 on a quality APC UPS and had the org hard drive and a Seagate external FAP for years w/o problems. Then I got into the whole upgrading business; something that would consume entire nights, whether good or bad. I don't WANT to always, but I do like having 85 season passes, and always something to watch. I hope TIVO gets a deal with every cable company out there, b/c there really IS no substitute that I know of. It baffles me in this great country of avid TV fans, that more people don't have them.

TIP: always plug your TIVO directly into the socket, or, if you really care, into a UPS.


----------



## VSG

I got a weird error....that only cleared when I did a C&DE....

I had sent a bunch of SP's via the internet..

TIP: subscribe to either kidzone and/or guru guides to re-populate your SP's....

It is not a supported feature, but have worked great for me in trying out several different improvements where I started from scratch.:up:


----------



## vectorcatch

VSG said:


> I see 1 partition of 1.7tb....everything works fine.
> 
> What are the signs of it not working again?


What procedure did you use to get the 2TB working? Did you use WinMFS or InstantCake? Thank you.


----------



## VSG

WINmfs but I think I used a restore of an already upgraded drive...I tried so many different things b/c I really wanted to KEEP my 1.35tb of recordings...alas it's painfully slow to copy that much data...

But I now a 2tb THD up and working with a single multi card, and all my sp's, so let the chips fall where they may.


----------



## lrhorer

Joe3 said:


> I kid you not, its been 8 years of constant use connected to my Series 3. However, I went retail for the new enclosure so if it did not work I could return it with some excuse of how it doesn't fit.


Given the S3 was not introduced until September, 2006 - just a bit less than 4 years ago - that would seem highly unlikely. I upgraded dthe drive in my original S3 a few months ago, but my second S3 still has its original 1T drive in it, and it has been running continuously - almost - for more than 3 years.


----------



## lrhorer

Marconi said:


> If your drive is eight years old, it needs to be replaced.


Oh, nonsense. I have a number of machines running 24 x 7 that have hard drives more than 20 years old in them. A drive needs to be replaced when it fails, or if it shows clear signs of imminent failure. Any data that is at all important needs to be backed up, because sooner or later the drive (or array) on which it resides will fail. (Well, that and because people make mistakes.) There simply is no way to predict when a drive will fail, and a 3 year old drive is no more likely to fail tomorrow than a 3 week old drive.



Marconi said:


> And 50 bucks is more than your recordings are worth to you?


'Could be. If someone were holding one of my TiVo drives over his head, threatening to smash it if I didn't pay him $50, I don't think I would cough up the cash. OTOH, I would be happy to pay $50 for an imaged TiVo drive if I had one fail.



Marconi said:


> Seriously, hard drives should be replaced every 3-5 years at most.


That's just silly. One is as likely as not to replace the good hard drive with several years' of life left with one which will fail within a month.


----------



## MPSAN

lrhorer said:


> Oh, nonsense. I have a number of machines running 24 x 7 that have hard drives more than 20 years old in them. A drive needs to be replaced when it fails, or if it shows clear signs of imminent failure. Any data that is at all important needs to be backed up, because sooner or later the drive (or array) on which it resides will fail. (Well, that and because people make mistakes.) There simply is no way to predict when a drive will fail, and a 3 year old drive is no more likely to fail tomorrow than a 3 week old drive.
> 
> 'Could be. If someone were holding one of my TiVo drives over his head, threatening to smash it if I didn't pay him $50, I don't think I would cough up the cash. OTOH, I would be happy to pay $50 for an imaged TiVo drive if I had one fail.
> 
> That's just silly. One is as likely as not to replace the good hard drive with several years' of life left with one which will fail within a month.


+1 Thank you! IF a hard drive starts to get soft errors, then the OS should have a routine to de-allocate that Sector before it becomes a hard error. Very easy to do. Sometimes we never do see soft errors and a sector, or track, can be damaged without warning. At that point, the routine will just map out the track. Sometimes it is not the media at all and is the drive electronics or head. At that point a new drive is needed...unless there are important data files on that drive...NOT TV Shows! However, as you said, a drive can fail in a week or 10 years. Than is what the M is in MTBF. Kind of like the Mathematician who drowned trying to walk across a lake with an average depth of 2 feet!


----------



## richsadams

VSG said:


> Hi Rich,
> 
> I think I paid around $700 for my series 3 with lifetime....I don't recall the #....but they let me "transfer" the ser 2 lifetime....for $200? Geez, the exact #'s really are slipping me by...either way, I knew I had something special. I spent $65 on a quality APC UPS and had the org hard drive and a Seagate external FAP for years w/o problems. Then I got into the whole upgrading business; something that would consume entire nights, whether good or bad. I don't WANT to always, but I do like having 85 season passes, and always something to watch. I hope TIVO gets a deal with every cable company out there, b/c there really IS no substitute that I know of. It baffles me in this great country of avid TV fans, that more people don't have them.
> 
> TIP: always plug your TIVO directly into the socket, or, if you really care, into a UPS.


Same story here. It is indeed amazing that after 10 years of TiVo and in this day and age of giant screen, flat panel TV's that a vast majority of people still have no idea what a DVR is much less the difference between a cableco box and TiVo. When I talk about TiVo people often tell me that there's far more to life than TV so they wouldn't have one. No kidding. That's precisely why we have TiVo's; so we can watch what we want to watch when we have time and not waste our time on commercials and TV shows that probably should have never seen the light of day (or night). We have better things to do. 

What's really shocking is when I do mention a great TV show to someone and they ask me what day it's on, what time, what channel. I do a great deer in the headlights. I know I had to figure it out when I first set a season pass, but after that I really have no idea. I know I can watch it when I get around to it is all. I must be the network's and advertiser's worst nightmare.

Other folks ask if I saw something or other the other night...something that doesn't sound very good. "Why were you watching that?" I ask. "Oh, I was waiting for my favorite show to come on." Really? Is it still 1962 I think? I just shake my head.

When I travel I usually keep some TV shows or movies on my iPad to watch (waiting for the Slingbox iPad App) but now and then I sample the local TV fare, bad commercials and all. OMG...how do people put up with it?

Anyway, back OT, yes a UPS can make a real difference in the longevity of a TiVo. My original Series3 is still going strong as well. Heck, I can still fire up the old S2 and even the S1 just for fun.


----------



## richsadams

lrhorer said:


> Given the S3 was not introduced until September, 2006 - just a bit less than 4 years ago - that would seem highly unlikely.


I thought the same thing at first but then got the impression the OP repurposed a drive he already had.


----------



## VSG

That what it comes down to for most people. Reliability first, then $$..

If you took a Kill A Watt and measured how much it really used...and figured it out PER year it can add up.

I recently recycled an older IDE drive to my computer as the OS drive temporarely, but it's too slow...I want a WD black series....for the os and programs, green for data....


----------



## lrhorer

richsadams said:


> When I talk about TiVo people often tell me that there's far more to life than TV so they wouldn't have one. No kidding. That's precisely why we have TiVo's; so we can watch what we want to watch when we have time and not waste our time on commercials and TV shows that probably should have never seen the light of day (or night). We have better things to do.


Oh, amen!!



richsadams said:


> What's really shocking is when I do mention a great TV show to someone and they ask me what day it's on, what time, what channel. I do a great deer in the headlights. I know I had to figure it out when I first set a season pass, but after that I really have no idea.


:up::up:

Who cares on what "channel" it airs, or when? It's on whenever I want it on, and not one second sooner or later. It's always on the Now Playing channel, and no other.



richsadams said:


> I know I can watch it when I get around to it is all. I must be the network's and advertiser's worst nightmare.


No, that would be me. You see, we have precisely the same attitude, but I'm a lot bigger and meaner than you. 



richsadams said:


> Anyway, back OT, yes a UPS can make a real difference in the longevity of a TiVo.


Or almost any device, less rugged than an electric oven. Compared to many foreign countries, the local U.S. power systems are far, far cleaner and more reliable, but even so there are times when the power levels will sag or spike. Both can be highly detrimental to electronic devices. The former will usually result in higher current in the power supply as it attempts to keep the power delivered to the active systems constant. The latter stresses insulation and dielectrics in the supply. When either becomes severe enough, the anomaly actually impacts the active systems as well, there being a limit to how well a power supply can ignore rising or falling input voltages. Inexpensive consumer devices - like the TiVo - usually use inexpensive power supplies, as well, which are much less well equipped to deal with highly variable power levels than industrial systems. Of course, TiVo could easily (nearly) eliminate the issue by building a $75 UPS right into the unit and charging $75 more for the TiVo, which is now also bulkier and heavier. Instead, they chose to let the consumer spend the $75 on an independent unit, allowing them to keep the cost, size, and weight of the TiVo down. I would say they made the right decision, but that in no way lessens the need for a UPS.


----------



## lrhorer

richsadams said:


> I thought the same thing at first but then got the impression the OP repurposed a drive he already had.


I thought about that before I posted, so read it over several times. It may well have been his intent, but the text strongly implied it had been in the TiVo 8 years.


----------



## bareyb

richsadams said:


> Same story here. It is indeed amazing that after 10 years of TiVo and in this day and age of giant screen, flat panel TV's that a vast majority of people still have no idea what a DVR is much less the difference between a cableco box and TiVo. *When I talk about TiVo people often tell me that there's far more to life than TV so they wouldn't have one. * No kidding. That's precisely why we have TiVo's; so we can watch what we want to watch when we have time and not waste our time on commercials and TV shows that probably should have never seen the light of day (or night). We have better things to do.


Yeah. I call BS on those people! People love to pretend they don't like TV. They think it makes them look more intelligent or like they have fuller lives. The real truth is, they come home from work, eat some dinner, and watch TV before they go to bed just like the rest of us. They feel guilty for some reason, so they lie about it.


----------



## richsadams

lrhorer said:


> I thought about that before I posted, so read it over several times. It may well have been his intent, but the text strongly implied it had been in the TiVo 8 years.


Yep...even if the OP were a beta tester that wouldn't add up. No matter I guess because as mentioned, hard drives can last a long, long time...over a decade in some cases.


----------



## richsadams

bareyb said:


> The real truth is, they come home from work, eat some dinner, and watch TV before they go to bed just like the rest of us. They feel guilty for some reason, so they lie about it.


Worst of all they watch whatever garbage or lesser garbage that happens to be on rather than cherry picking the best of the best for some quality TV time, be it a 30 minutes or three hours. Go figure.


----------



## richsadams

lrhorer said:


> No, that would be me. You see, we have precisely the same attitude, but I'm a lot bigger and meaner than you.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Worst of all they watch whatever garbage or lesser garbage that happens to be on rather than cherry picking the best of the best for some quality TV time, be it a 30 minutes or three hours. Go figure.


Funny, I worked with one of those. She said she never watches TV and if it were broken it would be a long time before she even knew. However, when we all went to lunch (and still do all get together) and someone mentions something about a show, she knows just what we are talking about!

OH, the other people who make me laugh are the ones who admit watching TV but ONLY watch PBS...both radio and TV!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> OH, the other people who make me laugh are the ones who admit watching TV but ONLY watch PBS...both radio and TV!


But mention something about one of the contestants on a "reality show" and they'll probably swoon.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> But mention something about one of the contestants on a "reality show" and they'll probably swoon.


Yes, she knew all about American Idol people!

Also, even when we had the 3 ReplayTV's I used to hear at work that they did not have that much time to watch TV. I gave the now standard answer that we didn't either so when we did have the time we wanted to watch what we wanted. I remember the old days when a dinner banquet was stopped in order to catch the end of Roots! Back then you could not even "tape" anything with a TiVo.


----------



## Jasac

I'm lost


----------



## MPSAN

Jasac said:


> I'm lost


Sorry, we just got a little Off Topic.


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Sorry, we just got a little Off Topic.


Actually...it's almost OT...it's all about upgrading right? Drives, TV viewing...all the same thing isn't it?


----------



## rgiaquinta

I've installed winmfs and am ready to go with an upgrade, but I'm not sure what drive to buy. A few months ago, I bought a wd3200AVVS from weaknees, but I had problems with the upgrade, so I'm ready to do it on my own with a new drive. I'd really appreciate a drive suggestion, as the early pages of this thread seem a bit outdated.

Thanks


----------



## aaronwt

rgiaquinta said:


> I've installed winmfs and am ready to go with an upgrade, but I'm not sure what drive to buy. A few months ago, I bought a wd3200AVVS from weaknees, but I had problems with the upgrade, so I'm ready to do it on my own with a new drive. I'd really appreciate a drive suggestion, as the early pages of this thread seem a bit outdated.
> 
> Thanks


I had no issues with the hitachi drives and WD green drives I used in my Series 3/TiVoHD boxes. The 1TB Hitachi drives are still going strong in my girlfriends two Series 3 boxes. They've been in there for over three years now. And those were the 5 platter 1TB Hitachi drives.
I had to buy the 1TB external drives and pull the drive out of it since they were so hard to get the bare drives. And they were four times as much as the 1TB drives cost today.


----------



## VSG

rgiaquinta said:


> I've installed winmfs and am ready to go with an upgrade, but I'm not sure what drive to buy. A few months ago, I bought a wd3200AVVS from weaknees, but I had problems with the upgrade, so I'm ready to do it on my own with a new drive. I'd really appreciate a drive suggestion, as the early pages of this thread seem a bit outdated.
> 
> Thanks


You bought something from Weaknees and it didn't work? Hmm? I'm sure they would have helped you on the right track.

Almost any hard drive will work. The lower rpm ones generate less heat. WD have great drives, that use very little power and have a great record. I just bought a 2tb Seagate that's super quiet yet has a 5 year warranty. My experience with Seagate's has been outstanding. The WD's I use all have had to had the wdidle3.exe intellipark disable needed. That's a 2 min ordeal, unless you have not tried it before, then it can be SUPER frustrating, doe.

Which model do you own? The 648, 652?


----------



## rgiaquinta

I've got the 652.

I'm not sure how to read your tone regarding weaknees...sarcasm, or straightforward. I sent the upgrade drive back to them for replacement, and they returned me a "new" drive (according to them), but I still had problems. I've had a series of complicated problems with my Tivo HD for 6 months... have been through 3 replacement Tivos, several sets of single and multistream cable cards, and 2 weaknees upgrade drives, and even with methodical troubleshooting, I haven't been able to figure out the problem.
So... my 3rd replacement Tivo has worked for 3 months straight, and I'm ready to upgrade, but am afraid to put the weaknees upgrade drive in it, because that drive was already installed in a unit that failed. So, I'm looking for the model number of a reliable 1TB drive that you all would recommend.

btw, I'm not a Tivo basher... I've been a subscriber since for almost a decade, and never had a problem until last December... and I'm still sticking with Tivo because they've earned my loyalty... they've taken care of replacements but I'm getting killed by shipping charges...


----------



## VSG

Tell me it has lifetime service, right?


----------



## VSG

It sounds like it has problems OTHER than the hard drive...is the unit plugged straight into the wall? What are the symptoms? Do you have cable cards, and a tuning adapter?


----------



## Joe3

lrhorer said:


> Given the S3 was not introduced until September, 2006 - just a bit less than 4 years ago - that would seem highly unlikely.


My error, your are right. It just seems like I had the S3 that long. But that hard drive is still going, knock on wood.


----------



## rmcurtis

Hey, everyone. I just upgraded my stock HD with a WD10EARS drive on Saturday, and it's great! Thanks to everyone who helped with the great tools and instructions. I had no problem with WinMFS or changing the AAM to 128.
However, wdidle3 gave me lots of trouble, and I finally gave up on that. Now that the drive is in the TiVo, I decided to test our a soft reboot. It hangs on the "Welcome, Powering Up" screen, so I plan to go back and try wdidle3 again someday. For reference, by Tivo is running 11.0h, and the drive manufacture date was 12 Dec 2009. (Kinda old for a just-bought drive from Newegg.com, but that's okay.)

My efforts to run wdidle3 all failed. I tried the FDOS disk linked in the first post, and I tried Rocko's update with the newer wdidle3, but in both cases after booting from the CD, the keyboard was totally unresponsive. I had found a different boot disk somewhere, but it wasn't able to load some drivers and I didn't even find the wdidle3 executable on the disk. Ah, re-reading the first post now, I see that I didn't try to change the BIOS Settings to EIDE mode from RAID. I'll have to go back and try that sometime.

Anyway, it's great to have an upgraded drive!


----------



## rgiaquinta

1st Unit - December
My problems started in December 2009, when the Tivo HD (with lifetime subscription) that had worked flawlessly for several years started to have channels that were blacked out occasionally. I switched out the cable card, but then had a reboot problem; it took me several hours of plugging and unpluggin the unit to get past the "powering up" screen. Additionally, my tuners were still blacking out intermittently. So I ordered a replacement/upgrade drive from weaknees. I still experienced the blackout and reboot problems. Then, one tuner stopped working entirely and the other tuner showed the wrong channels on the wrong channel numbers. I switch my multstream card for two single streams, disconnected all cable splitters in my house, and plugged the unit straight into the wall. Still had the problem, so I figured that my troubleshooting pointed to the power supply or board, and I swapped the unit with Tivo for $150. 

2nd Unit - March
Immediately installed the weaknees drive into my new unit before plugging in. All problems were solved for a few weeks, but then unit started to spontaneously reboot and finally froze on the yellow screen. Tivo found a fatal error on the hard drive (weaknees), and swapped unit out for free. (I removed the weaknees hard drive).

3rd Unit - April
Again, I installed the weaknees hard drive before powering up. Unit worked for a month, plugged directly into wall. After a month, I got a blank grey screen. Reboot would cure this, but grey screen would pop up several times that week. I swapped in the original Tivo hard drive, and experienced the same problem. Then the unit started hanging on the "powering up" screen during reboot, so I swapped out with Tivo yet again.

4th Unit - June
Before powering up, I got a new multistream cable card from cable company. Left the original hard drive in. So all components in this set up are new and have not been in a machine that failed. Has worked without a glitch for 3 months.

(I know this situation sounds bizarre, but I kept detailed notes from the beginning as I tried to troubleshoot the problem, so the above information is accurate).

So.....
Now I would like to upgrade my capacity, and came to this thread to get suggestions for a reliable hard drive. I still have the weaknees hard drive (320 GB WD3200AVVS, Green Power manufactured 4 August 2009) but I'm afraid to plug it in, since it has been in 3 Tivos that failed.

Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions. Would love to know if anyone can figure out my problem.


----------



## leighnjo

Installed a WD 1 TB DVR Expander. Everything worked as it should until Brighthouse sent a firmware update which screwed up everything; the tuning adapter and the external drive (confirmed by the local bulletinboard). I got an onscreen message that the expansion drive could not by found and that the unit would not function without it. Solution was to restart but same reoccurred after several restarts of the TIVOHD. I finally simply disconnected the external drive using the procedure on the onscreen message. Everything worked but the available space was reduced to the original. Went through a reinstall of the external drive using the procedures on the TIVO website and the external drive reinstalled and the capacity was back to the expanded levels. However, when the system was turned back on, it again didn't recogonize the external drive and stated that the TIVO would not function without it. As stated I restarted TIVO without success and eventually disconnected the external drive using the instructions which were displayed on the screen. I know this is a little disjointed but has anyone else had this experience and how can it be resolved. I seen to be in a loop: can't find external drive so TIVO can't function; restart by removing the TIVO power cord and reinserting not working; having to remove the external drive to restore the TIVO.


----------



## m.s

rmcurtis said:


> in both cases after booting from the CD, the keyboard was totally unresponsive.


If you have a USB keyboard, you may need to change a BIOS setting. Look for "Legacy USB Support" or "Legacy Keyboard Device" and turn that on. Or, find a PS2 type keyboard, and try that.


----------



## richsadams

leighnjo said:


> Installed a WD 1 TB DVR Expander. Everything worked as it should until Brighthouse sent a firmware update which screwed up everything; the tuning adapter and the external drive (confirmed by the local bulletinboard).


I'm not entirely clear, but have you properly divorced your external drive and if so does TiVo run normally? It sounds as if it does. If that's the case and all of your connections are secure you should get an RMA for your WD My DVR Expander.

A cableco firmware update shouldn't have affected your TiVo (other than cable cards or the TA) at all. However a power surge or something of that nature could.

In any case, if your TiVo is working w/o the expansion drive attached it's obvious that your Expander is not going to work any longer. If it's less than a year old you can get a free replacement from WD.

BTW, if you don't have your TiVo and your Expander connected to a good UPS (_not_ a surge protector) I'd strongly recommend it.

Best of luck and let us know how things go.


----------



## richsadams

rgiaquinta said:


> 1st Unit - December
> My problems started in December 2009,
> 
> (I know this situation sounds bizarre, but I kept detailed notes from the beginning as I tried to troubleshoot the problem, so the above information is accurate).
> 
> So.....
> Now I would like to upgrade my capacity, and came to this thread to get suggestions for a reliable hard drive. I still have the weaknees hard drive (320 GB WD3200AVVS, Green Power manufactured 4 August 2009) but I'm afraid to plug it in, since it has been in 3 Tivos that failed.
> 
> Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions. Would love to know if anyone can figure out my problem.


The odds of getting that many defective TiVo's is very remote. My WAG is that you have something causing repeated failures and that something has to do with your power source. Unstable power can cause a number of problems, primarily data corruption, but it can affect any and all of the various pieces of hardware in TiVo.

As suggested to the other poster, if you haven't already, invest is a good a good UPS, ideally one with a line conditioner and keep TiVo plugged into it. There's a good chance that will resolve future issues. Also be sure all of your connections are secure, your cables and coax are relatively new and that no other high powered sources (amps, receivers, etc.) are directly on or under TiVo. Be sure TiVo is well ventilated as well...heat can cause many problems as well.

Using TiVo's stock drive as the source and following the FAQ directions carefully you should have no problem upgrading your internal hard drive yourself.

Best of luck and keep us posted!

Best


----------



## VSG

Ditto Rich! UPS and Temp....

do a C&DE .....establish a baseline.....confirm....notate.... then try the expander again...

It sounds more like the lack of tuning adapter issues I had back in 07....

I sent 3 tivo's back and I love tivo for helping me out....I hope they stay around for a long time.


----------



## rgiaquinta

VSG said:


> Ditto Rich! UPS and Temp....
> 
> do a C&DE .....establish a baseline.....confirm....notate.... then try the expander again...
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Sorry, what's a C&DE?


----------



## VSG

rgiaquinta said:


> VSG said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ditto Rich! UPS and Temp....
> 
> do a C&DE .....establish a baseline.....confirm....notate.... then try the expander again...
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Sorry, what's a C&DE?
> 
> 
> 
> Clear and delete everything...
Click to expand...


----------



## richsadams

VSG said:


> Clear and delete everything...


That's sound advice when troubleshooting. :up:


----------



## CharlieC

I upgraded my S3 about a year ago and it had been running great with no problems. Recently I've experienced a problem when the TV has been off for a while and the TV is powered up and then I use the TIVO remote to do anything (change channel, hit the repeat button, go backwards, etc.), the screen goes snowy - sometimes with static sound. I thought at first it was the remote, but I switched to a different remote and I experience the same problem. It appears to only happen after the TIVO box has been sitting without instructions from a remote for a while. From the clock on the front of the unit I know the lockup happens as soon as I try to get the TIVO box to do something. If it had been recording a program - that program will still be there when I hard boot and will end at the time of the lockup. I don't have any reboot problems - but need to hardboot when this happens - no TIVO buttons will work.

Is this a hard drive going bad or something else?

Thanks


----------



## tpatch

I upgraded two Series 3 units today with WD10EARS. I had a little trouble booting from the CD for wdidle3. I found instructions for booting from a USB drive and it worked.



> _from: http://www.linuxconfig.org/how-to-get-wdiddle3-to-set-iddle-timer-for-wd-ears-drive_
> 
> Thanks for the post, it was useful for me. But I used an alternative that I think it is easier. It requires just a usb stick.
> 1 - Download unetbootin:
> 'sudo apt-get install unetbootin' or direct from www.unetbootin.sourceforge.net
> 2 - Start the application. Select FreeDos as distribution in the main dialog. Your USB stick will probably be already selected in the lower dialog, if not, do it (remeber to format it first as FAT).
> 3 - The application will automatically download and install the odin version of freedos(just 1,4MB!). It will also make your usb bootable.
> 4 - Copy the wdidle3.exe to the usb stick.
> 5 - Reboot the system with the usb stick as first boot alternative. When asked select the live CD version of freeDOS.
> 6 - In the prompt type c:, so that you get to the root of the usb stick. Then type as usual wdidle3 /S255 and that's it!


Mission accomplished. Thanks to this forum for the directions!


----------



## murphjo

1TB Western Digital WD10EARS Caviar Green SATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive 64MB IntelliPower 3.5" for $49.99 + tax with free shipping

$49.99 + applicable tax with code R50$HR37CT$91X


----------



## richsadams

murphjo said:


> 1TB Western Digital WD10EARS Caviar Green SATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive 64MB IntelliPower 3.5" for $49.99 + tax with free shipping
> 
> $49.99 + applicable tax with code R50$HR37CT$91X


A good deal...but where?

BTW, you won't be able to post a link...the name of the company should do though. TIA!


----------



## richsadams

tpatch said:


> I upgraded two Series 3 units today with WD10EARS. I had a little trouble booting from the CD for wdidle3. I found instructions for booting from a USB drive and it worked.
> 
> Mission accomplished. Thanks to this forum for the directions!


Congrats and enjoy!


----------



## darksurtur

richsadams said:


> A good deal...but where?
> 
> BTW, you won't be able to post a link...the name of the company should do though. TIA!


Re: WD10EARS for 49.99 + Tax

It's at Dell.

Link: http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/...cd=10550055-1225267-u0t2197602f9fp38374c0s441

I just bought one myself.


----------



## DanInSeattle

Hi folks,

Last week I upgraded my TiVo HD using the instructions in this thread. It went very smoothly and I want to thank everyone who contributed to the instructions, software and advice. The upgraded internal drive replaces an external WD 500GB Expander, which Ive had for two years. I wanted to reduce the number of possible failure points, as well as power consumption and heat generated by my setup.

I decided to spend a little extra to get a WD AV drive, model WD10EVDS, since its designed specifically for DVR use. After all, TiVo is a mission critical application! The manufacture date for the drive is 12 July 2010. Since there have been reports here that the reboot problem may no longer be happening, I decided to try installing the drive without running wdidle3. I have done several soft reboots and am happy to report I have not had any problems. In fact, I used to have problems with freezes after soft reboots when using the external expander, so this is an improvement.

A couple of comments on the upgrade instructions. You might want to put the WD10EVDS back in the list of recommended drives. It may be time to revisit the warnings against using newer WD drives in general. The picture links in the instructions are broken, although I didnt really need them. I found the instructions to be clear and easy to follow.

Once again, thanks to everyone who contributes here.


----------



## AZrob

Hi all,

This question is about using the "My DVR Expander" on a Scientific Atlanta SA8300HD DVR. (This is Cox-Phoenix uses for their DVR.)

Does anybody know if existing shows on such a DVR are wiped out when you add the "My DVR Expander" for the first time? 

Thanks in advance,

Rob from AZ


----------



## ThAbtO

Usually shows are removed when you are removing a Expander not when adding.


----------



## csell

About a year or so ago, I upgraded my Tivo HD to a 750GB harddrive using the InstantCake software from dvrupgrade.... Now that I recently added a cablecard and HD, I need more space. I was thinking of just buying a 1TB external but i've read a lot of negative comments about them failing in about a year or so. I don't really know common that is, but its pushing me away from that option and considering just buying a larger (2 TB internal harddrive). Three questions about that:

1) The last time I did that, I found some nice list of recommended harddrives (ones that people used). It was either on here or on dvrupgrade. Is there an updated list anywhere?

2) This time around, I would like to copy the content of my existing harddrive to the new one. I recall there being good instructions on how to do this, but I can't find them. I looked on dvrupgrade, but see no reference to that. Anyone know anything about this?

3) Will doing this affect my current cablecards?

Thanks


----------



## richsadams

DanInSeattle said:


> I decided to spend a little extra to get a WD AV drive, model WD10EVDS, since its designed specifically for DVR use. After all, TiVo is a mission critical application! The manufacture date for the drive is 12 July 2010. Since there have been reports here that the reboot problem may no longer be happening, I decided to try installing the drive without running wdidle3. I have done several soft reboots and am happy to report I have not had any problems. In fact, I used to have problems with freezes after soft reboots when using the external expander, so this is an improvement.


That's very valuable information and good news indeed! Thanks for taking the time to try out your drive w/o disabling the Intellipark feature first. :up:

With respect to the suggestions, they are good ones. You might want to PM the author of the FAQ, bkdtv, and see what he has to say.

Thanks again and enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## dholzlein

rgiaquinta said:


> 2nd Unit - March
> Immediately installed the weaknees drive into my new unit before plugging in. All problems were solved for a few weeks, but then unit started to spontaneously reboot and finally froze on the yellow screen. Tivo found a *fatal error on the hard drive (weaknees), *and swapped unit out for free. *(I removed the weaknees hard drive).*


Seems like you have your answer. TiVo told you you had a hard drive problem (possibly caused by the original bad TiVo) and you then changed the TiVo, but kept the hard drive with the problem. You then continued to put the bad drive in subsequent TiVos. Rather than getting a 3rd TiVo, you probably should have asked Weaknees to replace the drive.

Maybe Weaknees will still replace it, or maybe just get a 1T and use WinMFS to do the home grown upgrade.

Just my $0.02.


----------



## richsadams

dholzlein said:


> Seems like you have your answer. TiVo told you you had a hard drive problem (possibly caused by the original bad TiVo) and you then changed the TiVo, but kept the hard drive with the problem. You then continued to put the bad drive in subsequent TiVos. Rather than getting a 3rd TiVo, you probably should have asked Weaknees to replace the drive.
> 
> Maybe Weaknees will still replace it, or maybe just get a 1T and use WinMFS to do the home grown upgrade.
> 
> Just my $0.02.


I agree, the OP should certainly get a replacement drive from Weaknees if he intends to go down that path again. However the OP stopped using the Weaknees drive and began using the TiVo OEM drives in TiVo #'s 3 and 4 but eventually experienced the same problem with TiVo #3. However it appears that TiVo #4 is still working so far (bold is mine)...



> 3rd Unit - April
> Again, I installed the weaknees hard drive before powering up. Unit worked for a month, plugged directly into wall. After a month, I got a blank grey screen. Reboot would cure this, but grey screen would pop up several times that week. *I swapped in the original Tivo hard drive, and experienced the same problem.* Then the unit started hanging on the "powering up" screen during reboot, so I swapped out with Tivo yet again.
> 
> 4th Unit - June
> Before powering up, I got a new multistream cable card from cable company. *Left the original hard drive in*. So all components in this set up are new and have not been in a machine that failed. Has worked without a glitch for 3 months.


It doesn't seem likely that the Weaknees drive could have caused TiVo #3 to fail after the original drive was reinstalled but I suppose stranger things have happened. That's what leads me to believe that there may be something amiss power-wise that's causing some data corruption as mentioned in my subsequent post.

If the OP still wants to upgrade he should indeed get a replacement drive from Weaknees or DIY per the first post on this thread and invest in a UPS/Power conditioner.


----------



## dholzlein

I did this a while ago (last Sept) and don't know if anyone would care since some people have done the 2T one drive solution, but I just came across the pix and figured I'd post 'em as an FYI. YMMV.

Do you have a dremel and a dollar; okay maybe five dollars? Then you can put two drives in your TiVo HD.

As far as WinMFS is concerned, you set the two up as if the second drive would be in an enclosure. Then rather than put it in an enclosure, you sneak it into your TiVo HD case.

There is space for a second drive in your TiVo HD. There just isn't a bracket for it. That space is immediately adjacent to your original drive. TiVo even helps a little by attaching the original drive at the bottom, thus leaving the holes on the sides available. Some well sized set screws, a SATA power splitter, and a pair of SATA data cables and your all set.

Attached is my TiVo HD before the add, which had a single 1T WD10EACS. (some cables disconnected already); a SATA power splitter I purchased; and the set screws I made.

To make the set screws get some appropriate sized thread rod from Home Depot or Lowes (sorry forgot the size). Get a couple of nuts also, even though you don't think you need them. Get out the dremel and a small cut-off wheel. Put a couple of nuts together about 1/2 in from one end of the rod. Using the dremel cut a notch into the end of the rod. The nuts will help absorb and dissipate the high heat this creates. You want a notch deep enough to fit a small screwdriver. When your notch is done and slightly cooled, take the nuts off the notched end. This will be a little tough because what you're doing is straightening out the threads that you inevitably boogered. When happy with the threads, put a nut back on at the very end (to protect your notch) and one or two more gapped a half inch back. Then using the dremel cut off your notched piece of threaded rod. You want it to end up between 3/8 and 1/2 inches long. Cut cleanly because its harded to fix the threads when the rod is so short.

(continues)


----------



## dholzlein

... continued from earlier...

I made 4 of these set screws to ensure that I had 2 that I liked. 2 is what you need. Pick the drive that has the most space available on the underside. Insert one set screw notch first into the center hole. Insert it so that the notched end is flush with the inside of the hole (presuming you can see the inside edge). Insert the second set screw notch first into the hole near the front of the drive. Insert it all the way in so that it is flush with the outside of the drive. you may need your screwdriver on the inside of the hole to do this.

Take the other drive, line up the center holes and spin the second drive onto the threaded rod. (Make sure you choose the correct side so both drive a facing the same direction.) As you spin the drive on, you may need to manage the set screw to ensure that it remains in both drives. Spin them down as tight as you can while maintaining their physical alignment.

Then using your screwdriver, drive the second set screw into the second drive. This is a test of your craftsmanship because space is probably tight and if your threads are too bad then you will probably strip out your notch before your screw is set.

Once your two drives are tightly locked together, you can reinstall the TiVo drive bracket onto the drive pair. Line it up before you start the screws to ensure that you install it onto the right drive. It doesn't matter which drive is on the left or right, but if you put the bracket on wrong then one of te drives will want to jut out of the case rather than into it. Pix attached.

Continues in one last message...


----------



## dholzlein

continued from earlier...

The drive tray may now be reattached into the TiVo itself.

The power splitter I used did require a slight modification with a sharp knife to the account for the tivo combo power/data cable. The data portion of the TiVo combo cable is not used because the drive side can't be used because the power splitter is in the way. Disconnect the motherboard side of the data cable and attach a standard SATA data cable attach the other end to your original drive (A). Now disconnect the motherboard side of the ESATA cable; attach a second standard SATA cable to the motherboard and to the second drive (B). Attach power to both drives from your SATA power splitter.

... And your done. close it and pray or alternatively test it while open...

To those of you with power concerns... Drive power requirements have come down such that the two drives I used were only marginally more power than the original one. Most of the power is required for spin up. I don't power cycle my TiVo enough for this to be a concern.

To those of you with heat concerns... The WD Green drives have been cool. I wouldn't try it with two WD Blacks though.

Ultimately the proof is in the pudding and I have been running this rig since last September without any issues. (Okay... I have the soft reset issue, but that's unrelated to my mounting. That was a known issue with the EACS drive when I bought it. And I can live with that...)

Thanks.
(Lately I've been toying with the idea of that 4T Premier upgrade, but $500 plus the TiVo is kind of steep)


----------



## richsadams

I remember thinking that was very cool when you did that dual-drive upgrade a year ago...has it been that long?  I also remember thinking how similar it was to the same setup I did for my Series1 way back when. (Also all command line work in those days.) 

I also considered it for our TiVo HD but thought it was a little cost prohibitive at the time and settled for 1TB. Now that 2TB drives are hovering around $100 it's back to being worth it again.

I'm also reminded about how excited I was when the hack to add a 500GB external drive to the Series3 was discovered. $259 for a 500GB drive (on sale) and I didn't blink an eye. How times change. 

BTW, I haven't opened it yet, but I'm looking at my Premiere XL and I could be wrong, but I don't see how two 3.5" drives would fit...but 4TB's is a heck of a goal so I say go for it!


----------



## GPT999

I am happy to report that after a few system software upgrades ( my system had been offline for 1.5 months, talk about missing Tivo) with things not working so well, my system is now upgraded with the 1Tb WD internal drive and the liberated Free Agent Pro drive ( Barracuda 1Tb) now housed in external enclosure connected through the eSata port. 318 HD hours! 

I guess I consider any HDD as a liability and if I have anything that precious to me, I store it in several locations. So I am not worried that my external drive has some age.

Thanks again for all the help!


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

I don't think it's a good idea to put two hard drives into a single TiVo box.

I have no direct knowledge of TiVo's power supply spec, but it looks like full custom, not something off the shelf. In general, consumer electronics is manufactured *without any design margin.* TiVo certainly didn't size the PSU expecting it to simultaneously power two drives. Yes I know the added load from a 2nd drive isn't very high, but IMO the TiVo PSU won't win any awards for "most over-engineered power supply". It won't even be nominated.


----------



## MPSAN

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I don't think it's a good idea to put two hard drives into a single TiVo box.
> 
> I have no direct knowledge of TiVo's power supply spec, but it looks like full custom, not something off the shelf. In general, consumer electronics is manufactured *without any design margin.* TiVo certainly didn't size the PSU expecting it to simultaneously power two drives. Yes I know the added load from a 2nd drive isn't very high, but IMO the TiVo PSU won't win any awards for "most over-engineered power supply". It won't even be nominated.


Not to mention the extra heat the 2nd drive adds to the TiVo!


----------



## rgiaquinta

richsadams said:


> If the OP still wants to upgrade he should indeed get a replacement drive from Weaknees or DIY per the first post on this thread and invest in a UPS/Power conditioner.


Murphy's Law in action: I took your (much appreciated) sage advice, and ordered a UPS on Thursday, expecting it to come in early this week. Would you believe that on the very same Thursday night, my 4th Tivo unit started to spontaneously reboot...! This unit is in pristine condition: never opened the case, is plugged directly into wall, etc. It lasted two months and now is being sent back for replacement. So... I will not plug in the replacement until I have received the UPS. I will then ride out my 90 warrantee with no modifications. If the 5th unit will stay alive that long, then I'll try a DIY upgrade. Will keep you all posted.


----------



## DixonAgee

I did an upgrade to 1TB on my Tivo Series 3 about 16 months ago using the now discontinued WD WD10EVCS drive. Unfortunately, the drive has begun to 'buzz' periodically as if working very hard at seeking. Before replacing the drive is there any chance that some tweak will quiet the drive? I did a search on the forum but didn't find a match for 'buzz'.

Otherwise I fear that the drive is on its way out. Vibrations seem to initiate the buzz - but it can also happen spontaneously. It is definitely getting more frequent. 

In reading the info it appears that my 'best' bet might be to get a 'green' WD drive, disable Intellipark and move everything to the new drive. 

Thanks for any advise or encouragement you might provide.

- Bruce Agee


----------



## richsadams

DixonAgee said:


> I did an upgrade to 1TB on my Tivo Series 3 about 16 months ago using the now discontinued WD WD10EVCS drive. Unfortunately, the drive has begun to 'buzz' periodically as if working very hard at seeking. Before replacing the drive is there any chance that some tweak will quiet the drive? I did a search on the forum but didn't find a match for 'buzz'.
> - Bruce Agee


Any unusual noise from a hard drive is bad news, particularly if it's getting more frequent. I'd get the new drive and try copying everything over ASAP.

Your WD drive should have a three-year warranty so an RMA is in order, but I don't know that I'd wait for a replacement to arrive.

Best of luck and let us know how things go.


----------



## MPSAN

DixonAgee said:


> I did an upgrade to 1TB on my Tivo Series 3 about 16 months ago using the now discontinued WD WD10EVCS drive. Unfortunately, the drive has begun to 'buzz' periodically as if working very hard at seeking. Before replacing the drive is there any chance that some tweak will quiet the drive? I did a search on the forum but didn't find a match for 'buzz'.
> 
> Otherwise I fear that the drive is on its way out. Vibrations seem to initiate the buzz - but it can also happen spontaneously. It is definitely getting more frequent.
> 
> In reading the info it appears that my 'best' bet might be to get a 'green' WD drive, disable Intellipark and move everything to the new drive.
> 
> Thanks for any advise or encouragement you might provide.
> 
> - Bruce Agee


Have you tried running with the TiVo cover off? That way, when the "buzz" starts you can be sure it is the drive and not the fan. Also, it could be a loose carrier for the drive. When buzzing, if it is not the fan, try a little preasure on the HDD to see if it stops. The buzz may not be the drive!


----------



## richsadams

rgiaquinta said:


> Murphy's Law in action: I took your (much appreciated) sage advice, and ordered a UPS on Thursday, expecting it to come in early this week. Would you believe that on the very same Thursday night, my 4th Tivo unit started to spontaneously reboot...! This unit is in pristine condition: never opened the case, is plugged directly into wall, etc. It lasted two months and now is being sent back for replacement. So... I will not plug in the replacement until I have received the UPS. I will then ride out my 90 warrantee with no modifications. If the 5th unit will stay alive that long, then I'll try a DIY upgrade. Will keep you all posted.


Ugh! Well, I think you have a good plan going forward. Hopefully #5 will be the charm!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Have you tried running with the TiVo cover off? That way, when the "buzz" starts you can be sure it is the drive and not the fan. Also, it could be a loose carrier for the drive. When buzzing, if it is not the fan, try a little preasure on the HDD to see if it stops. The buzz may not be the drive!


Good ideas...but if it is the drive, don't wait to replace it!


----------



## cr33p

Anyone used and of the Samsung Spinpoint drives?


----------



## richsadams

cr33p said:


> Anyone used and of the Samsung Spinpoint drives?


I tried a Sammy 1TB Spinpoint in our TiVo HD a while back and could not get it to boot up (Hanging at the welcome screen).

There have also been other reports of problems for those that did get them to work, although IIRC there are a few folks that had success.

In any case, they aren't on the recommended list for a reason and probably s/b avoided.


----------



## cr33p

Tks


----------



## amelnik

good info here.


----------



## kettledrum

I'm looking at buying an HD and upgrading it. However, my computer is so old that it does not use SATA drives. Can anyone point me to any good enclosures to use for doing the upgrade on my computer? 

I also understand that it will need to be an eSATA enclosure if I get a WD drive and need to disable intellipark? Or is that no longer the case? There was a post onthe previous page talking about how that may not be necessary any longer?


----------



## pilotbob

kettledrum said:


> I'm looking at buying an HD and upgrading it. However, my computer is so old that it does not use SATA drives. Can anyone point me to any good enclosures to use for doing the upgrade on my computer?


I recently did this... I bought and used a USB to Sata adapter. Worked great.

Here's the one I bought:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812156014

BOb


----------



## richsadams

pilotbob said:


> I recently did this... I bought and used a USB to Sata adapter. Worked great.
> 
> Here's the one I bought:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812156014
> 
> BOb


That or a USB/SATA dock will work fine (I prefer the dock as it's very easy to connect and use later) Here's an example...

http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-Sata-HDD-Docking-Station/dp/B0012Z3MKW

However as the OP mentioned, you cannot disable or extend the timeout on WD's Intellipark drives via a USB connection as it has to be a direct SATA connection. Apparently some, but not all of the newest WD GP drives no longer require Intellipark to be disabled to avoid the soft reboot issue. It's a bit of a crap shoot right now.



kettledrum said:


> I'm looking at buying an HD and upgrading it. However, my computer is so old that it does not use SATA drives. Can anyone point me to any good enclosures to use for doing the upgrade on my computer?


As mentioned earlier, have a close look at your motherboard. Even though they may be using an EIDE hard drive, many MB's had SATA connectors many years ago. I have one Intel MB that's over 10 years old that has four SATA ports on it.

An alternative (if you can't get access to a computer with a SATA connection) would be to use a the Hitachi Drive many folks have had success with...

Deskstar 7K1000.C HD31000 IDK/7K

Note that it needs to be that exact model (with the "C" suffix) as similar model's acoustics are unacceptable.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## aaronwt

I thought all the hitachi drives could be set for low acoustics? Even my old 5 platter 1Tb hitachis are quiet with the AM setting at 128.


----------



## richsadams

aaronwt said:


> I thought all the hitachi drives could be set for low acoustics? Even my old 5 platter 1Tb hitachis are quiet with the AM setting at 128.


I believe that's correct, but IIRC a number of reports indicated that even with the AAM at 128 some of them were still unacceptable (which flies in the face of logic but there it is), plus ran quite hot too. The Deskstar 7K1000.C HD31000 IDK/7K is widely available and usually for a pretty reasonable price on sale in any case. Better safe than sorry and all.


----------



## delgadobb

richsadams said:


> That or a USB/SATA dock will work fine (I prefer the dock as it's very easy to connect and use later) Here's an example...
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-Sata-HDD-Docking-Station/dp/B0012Z3MKW
> .....
> An alternative (if you can't get access to a computer with a SATA connection) would be to use a the Hitachi Drive many folks have had success with...
> 
> Deskstar 7K1000.C HD31000 IDK/7K


+1 on the USB/SATA dock.

I picked up a couple of these as part of combo(s) ordered from NewEgg & couldn't be happier. I've done a number of upgrades for my own Tivo HDs & for a bunch of friends & it's SOOO much easier when you don't have to tear apart a computer. No shutting down, opening case, mounting new drives, possibly resetting boot sequence, yadda yadda. Pop in the drive, run WinMFS & you're good to go.

Gotta agree with Rich on the Hitachi as well. I've configured a couple of these (one for myself & one for a friend) & they're working just fine. Generally, they're readily available for a good price.

So, I guess I'm saying Rich is a smart guy. Somehow, I don't think he'll mind me saying that ...


----------



## richsadams

delgadobb said:


> So, I guess I'm saying Rich is a smart guy. Somehow, I don't think he'll mind me saying that ...


 Oh criminy...now what do I owe _you_!


----------



## delgadobb

richsadams said:


> Oh criminy...now what do I owe _you_!


Nothing.

You've been a huge help to a lot of people on this forum (myself included) & always keep things positive. That's payment enough! 

Give yourself a well-deserved pat on the back. Thanks, Rich.


----------



## richsadams

delgadobb said:


> Nothing.
> 
> You've been a huge help to a lot of people on this forum (myself included) & always keep things positive. That's payment enough!
> 
> Give yourself a well-deserved pat on the back. Thanks, Rich.


Well, I appreciate the too kind words. It's just a labor of love...giving back to the place that's home to many, many folks that have helped me over the years. And it's generally a nice place to hang out. :up:

How 'bout if I just say ah shucks and kick my instep a little?


----------



## Zer0

Hey guys quick question:

Is it possible to re-image the original TiVo HD (160GB) drive?

Reason I ask is because my original drive took a hit from a power surge and after taking it out of the TiVo and looking up its SMART stats, it said it had 31 pending bad sectors and 14 sectors failed to reallocate the data. This resulted in the corruption of the TiVo OS. I didn't want to completely give up on the original drive so I ran the WD advanced diagnostics on it and it saw corrupted sectors, attempted to repair, but failed. With a corrupted TiVo OS at this point my only option was to pickup InstantCake to repair that. As for the drive, I decided I'd try using the WD tool to write 0s on it and clear it off to see if I might repair it myself. Lucky for me, after clearing off the drive and re-testing it, it passed WD's advanced tests! I also checked its SMART stats and it no longer had 31 pending bad sectors and still 0 actual bad sectors (the 14 sectors failed data reallocation event was still left in the drive's SMART history though but that's not an issue after it being completely wiped). And so here I am with a clean working original drive but seem to be unable to put the TiVo OS back onto it as InstantCake told me that it was too small...any way around that?


----------



## richsadams

Zer0 said:


> Hey guys quick question:
> 
> Is it possible to re-image the original TiVo HD (160GB) drive? <snip>


It's not possible to use IC to image an original drive directly. Here's how a TCF member got around it in a way...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8114689#post8114689

I guess my take would be that it's really not worth it. Although the drive may have passed the SMART and WD diagnostics, there's really no guarantee that there aren't still problems, in other words, the results have been known to be wrong. The extended read/write/read diagnostic can be more precise however there's still a margin of error. Plus a power surge could have easily caused other physical problems to the drive that may not be readily apparent at the moment.

That said, a used 160GB HDD can be found on ebay for 10 or 15 bucks and a brand new drive would cost a little more. In any case, I just wouldn't waste any more time and donate it to the local recycle facility if it were me.

If you have an operational drive you can use winMFS to create a truncated backup and you can keep that on your computer or a thumb drive or whatever for safe keeping until the time comes that you need it again.


----------



## miller890

If there is any question on WD15EVDS drives, I just wanted to report I have successfully replaced the OEM drives on two TiVo Series-3 and one TiVo-HD with Western Digital's 1.5TB DVR drive WD15EVDS with 3/yr warranty. Drives were dated Nov2009 and Feb2010 from Amazon (only pre-Nov2009 were reported as working causing them to be removed from the list of drives on page-1 here). I used the "wdidle3 /S300" fix for WD-Intellipark reboot issue. Then WinMFS v3.9f with Windows7/64-bit to do two truncated backup/restore upgrades and one WinMFS:mfscopy to save the recordings. I used both direct SATA and USB-to-SATA methods. I followed each with an WinMFS:mfsadd and WinMFS:mfsupersize to regain space. All three drives resulted in 237hrs of H-D space; I expected TiVo-HD would be less. The one problem I had was with the first Series-3 had a failing drive, it errored out on the WinMFS:recovery, and I attempted a dd-rescue that didn't work. To recover I used Instant Cake to a spare 1TB drive because of the 1TB limitation, then a WinMFS backup and recovery to the new 1.5TB; here I lost the CableCard pairings. They all seem to run as quiet or quieter than the old-OEM drives. The goal was to fix the one failed drive, eliminate all external drives, avoid using a modified kernel, and go with the largest internal drive with some waste.


----------



## richsadams

miller890 said:


> If there is any question on WD15EVDS drives, I just wanted to report I have successfully replaced the OEM drives on two TiVo Series-3 and one TiVo-HD with Western Digital's 1.5TB DVR drive WD15EVDS with 3/yr warranty. Drives were dated Nov2009 and Feb2010 from Amazon (only pre-Nov2009 were reported as working causing them to be removed from the list of drives on page-1 here). I used the "wdidle3 /S300" fix then WinMFS v3.9f with Windows7/64-bit to do two truncated backup/restore upgrades and one WinMFS:mfscopy to save the recordings. I used both direct SATA and USB-to-SATA methods. I followed each with an WinMFS:mfsadd and WinMFS:mfsupersize to regain space. All three drives resulted in 237hrs of H-D space; I expected TiVo-HD would be less. The one problem I had was with the first Series-3 had a failing drive, it errored out on the WinMFS:recovery, and I attempted a dd-rescue that didn't work. To recover I used Instant Cake to a spare 1TB drive because of the 1TB limitation, then a WinMFS backup and recovery to the new 1.5TB; here I lost the CableCard pairings. They all seem to run as quiet or quieter than the old-OEM drives. The goal was to fix the one failed drive, eliminate all external drives, avoid using a modified kernel, and go with the largest internal drive with some waste.


Wow!  Nice brain dump!  Thanks for all of the valuable info...it's very worthwhile.

FWIW if it ever happens again, you can use the image from one Series3 to image a new drive in another one. You'd get an initial error but if you run Clear and Delete Everything it works like a charm.

Thanks again...nice work! :up:


----------



## bareyb

miller890 said:


> If there is any question on WD15EVDS drives, I just wanted to report I have successfully replaced the OEM drives on two TiVo Series-3 and one TiVo-HD with Western Digital's 1.5TB DVR drive WD15EVDS with 3/yr warranty. Drives were dated Nov2009 and Feb2010 from Amazon (only pre-Nov2009 were reported as working causing them to be removed from the list of drives on page-1 here). I used the "wdidle3 /S300" fix for WD-Intellipark reboot issue. Then WinMFS v3.9f with Windows7/64-bit to do two truncated backup/restore upgrades and one WinMFS:mfscopy to save the recordings. I used both direct SATA and USB-to-SATA methods. I followed each with an WinMFS:mfsadd and WinMFS:mfsupersize to regain space. All three drives resulted in 237hrs of H-D space; I expected TiVo-HD would be less. The one problem I had was with the first Series-3 had a failing drive, it errored out on the WinMFS:recovery, and I attempted a dd-rescue that didn't work. To recover I used Instant Cake to a spare 1TB drive because of the 1TB limitation, then a WinMFS backup and recovery to the new 1.5TB; here I lost the CableCard pairings. They all seem to run as quiet or quieter than the old-OEM drives. The goal was to fix the one failed drive, eliminate all external drives, avoid using a modified kernel, and go with the largest internal drive with some waste.


Wow. Nice WOT. Ever heard of a paragraph?


----------



## bareyb

richsadams said:


> Wow!  Nice brain dump!  Thanks for all of the valuable info...it's very worthwhile.
> 
> FWIW if it ever happens again, you can use the image from one Series3 to image a new drive in another one. You'd get an initial error but if you run Clear and Delete Everything it works like a charm.
> 
> Thanks again...nice work! :up:


I have two series 3's here. If my second one died, I could use the disk image from the first one (which I have) to format the second one? Wouldn't it have identical cable card pairing information as the original or would all of that be fixed with the clear and delete since the cable cards in the second one would be different?

The reason I ask is that I've been meaning to pull the drive out of "TiVo 2" and make disc image from it just in case it ever dies. I already have the disc image for "TiVo 1" from when I upgraded the drive. Am I understanding correctly that there is no need for me to make a disc image for my second Tivo after all? I can just use the image from TiVo 1 that I already have?


----------



## richsadams

bareyb said:


> I have two series 3's here. If my second one died, I could use the disk image from the first one (which I have) to format the second one? Wouldn't it have identical cable card pairing information as the original or would all of that be fixed with the clear and delete since the cable cards in the second one would be different?
> 
> The reason I ask is that I've been meaning to pull the drive out of "TiVo 2" and make disc image from it just in case it ever dies. I already have the disc image for "TiVo 1" from when I upgraded the drive. Am I understanding correctly that there is no need for me to make a disc image for my second Tivo after all? I can just use the image from TiVo 1 that I already have?


Hi Barey. The best thing to do of course would be to use the original image...that way all of the info, cable card pairing, etc. is saved. But you can use a like-for-like image. C&DE will wipe all of the saved info so you'd need to treat the recipient like a new TiVo, but it works. It's only an "emergency" measure though...useful when an original hard drive of the same model is suddenly pushing up daisies and refuses to work any longer.

So your plan is still a solid one, keep a truncated backup of each specific TiVo.


----------



## bareyb

richsadams said:


> Hi Barey. The best thing to do of course would be to use the original image...that way all of the info, cable card pairing, etc. is saved. But you can use a like-for-like image. C&DE will wipe all of the saved info so you'd need to treat the recipient like a new TiVo, but it works. It's only an "emergency" measure though...useful when an original hard drive of the same model is suddenly pushing up daisies and refuses to work any longer.
> 
> So your plan is still a solid one, keep a truncated backup of each specific TiVo.


Cool. Thanks Rich. I really need to get on that and do it, but it's good to know there's an alternative if I procrastinate too long.


----------



## mgibpb

I upgraded my S3 to 500GB 2+ years ago and recently decided to go 1TB. Bought a 1TB WD10EARS. I used Winmfs but started with the upgraded 500GB drive instead of the original 250GB drive because I want to preserve the existing video files. The process went smoothly but Tivo would not come up with the upgraded drive (stayed in the welcome powering up page). Tried it again without copying the data, no go. 
I repeated the process using the original drive but same result. Can anyone help? Thanks.


----------



## Zer0

richsadams said:


> It's not possible to use IC to image an original drive directly.
> 
> I guess my take would be that it's really not worth it. Although the drive may have passed the SMART and WD diagnostics, there's really no guarantee that there aren't still problems, in other words, the results have been known to be wrong. The extended read/write/read diagnostic can be more precise however there's still a margin of error. Plus a power surge could have easily caused other physical problems to the drive that may not be readily apparent at the moment.
> 
> That said, a used 160GB HDD can be found on ebay for 10 or 15 bucks and a brand new drive would cost a little more. In any case, I just wouldn't waste any more time and donate it to the local recycle facility if it were me.
> 
> If you have an operational drive you can use winMFS to create a truncated backup and you can keep that on your computer or a thumb drive or whatever for safe keeping until the time comes that you need it again.


Thanks for responding Rich. I found a way around it by using IC on a borrowed 1TB drive and then using WinMFS to create a backup and restore that backup onto the original WD1600AVBS. It was good to see WinMFS creating partition sizes according to the different drive size. The TiVo HD did reboot and then display a GSOD as it said it was fixing the drive for about 10 minutes. Afterward, the unit has booted normally and everything seems to be working. I picked up a WD10EVDS that I'll use to permanently upgrade it to 1TB while I'm at it, but it's good to have the original WD1600AVBS drive working with the TiVo OS back on it as a backup. Overall, not too bad for having a corrupt drive and restoring it from scratch thanks to IC and WinMFS.


----------



## richsadams

mgibpb said:


> I upgraded my S3 to 500GB 2+ years ago and recently decided to go 1TB. Bought a 1TB WD10EARS. I used Winmfs but started with the upgraded 500GB drive instead of the original 250GB drive because I want to preserve the existing video files. The process went smoothly but Tivo would not come up with the upgraded drive (stayed in the welcome powering up page). Tried it again without copying the data, no go.
> I repeated the process using the original drive but same result. Can anyone help? Thanks.


If you followed all of the steps exactly and still couldn't get things going even with the original TiVo drive, it sounds to me like your new drive is probably the problem.

IIRC there have been a few posts noting that their WD10EARS drive would not boot up until the Intelipark feature was disabled or the timeout was extended (using wdidle3.exe). Did you do that yet? If not all of the instructions are in the FAQ.

It's also possible that you have a bad drive, but if it worked normally with winMFS it sounds like it's probably okay.


----------



## richsadams

Zer0 said:


> Thanks for responding Rich. I found a way around it by using IC on a borrowed 1TB drive and then using WinMFS to <snip>.


Glad to hear that you were able to sort things out. Enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## testshot

Hi, newbie here - just got an HDTV a few weeks back and decided to go the external expander route for my TiVo. Ordered the newer WDBABT0010HBK Western Digital Expander drive as in a brain fart thought that I had a Series3. Alas, I have a TiVo HD with the stock drive (purch in June 2009 with lifetime).

Before I send this back to Amazon to get the older external drive, has anyone had experience getting this newer drive to work with a TiVo HD? Yes, I do have a replacement eSata cord to go with the new drive.


----------



## richsadams

testshot said:


> Hi, newbie here - just got an HDTV a few weeks back and decided to go the external expander route for my TiVo. Ordered the newer WDBABT0010HBK Western Digital Expander drive as in a brain fart thought that I had a Series3. Alas, I have a TiVo HD with the stock drive (purch in June 2009 with lifetime).
> 
> Before I send this back to Amazon to get the older external drive, has anyone had experience getting this newer drive to work with a TiVo HD? Yes, I do have a replacement eSata cord to go with the new drive.


Welcome to the forum! That drive will work fine with your TiVo HD. You can read various posts on Amazon and other sites saying as much and how much the owners like it. (There is one erroneous early post on Amazon saying that it didn't work but it's almost certain the OP had a faulty cable or bad drive).

Enjoy!


----------



## ThreeSoFar

testshot said:


> Hi, newbie here - just got an HDTV a few weeks back and decided to go the external expander route for my TiVo. Ordered the newer WDBABT0010HBK Western Digital Expander drive as in a brain fart thought that I had a Series3. Alas, I have a TiVo HD with the stock drive (purch in June 2009 with lifetime).
> 
> Before I send this back to Amazon to get the older external drive, has anyone had experience getting this newer drive to work with a TiVo HD? Yes, I do have a replacement eSata cord to go with the new drive.


It'll work fine as far as external drives go....but (by design) it's a second point of failure and extra heat/power being generated/used. And once it or the internal drive fails, you'll lose ALL shows on your TiVo.

Consider instead upgrading the internal drive to a larger one. Very easy to do. Probably cheaper, too.


----------



## mgibpb

richsadams said:


> If you followed all of the steps exactly and still couldn't get things going even with the original TiVo drive, it sounds to me like your new drive is probably the problem.
> 
> IIRC there have been a few posts noting that their WD10EARS drive would not boot up until the Intelipark feature was disabled or the timeout was extended (using wdidle3.exe). Did you do that yet? If not all of the instructions are in the FAQ.
> 
> It's also possible that you have a bad drive, but if it worked normally with winMFS it sounds like it's probably okay.


Disabling the Intelipark did the trick.:up: Thanks a lot.


----------



## richsadams

mgibpb said:


> Disabling the Intelipark did the trick.:up: Thanks a lot.


Very cool! Thanks for posting your results and enjoy!


----------



## bvm42

Here's another data point for you. I upgraded my HD XL's 1TB disk to the 2TB WD20EVDS. I didn't do anything about Intellipark, and it seems to soft reboot okay. Drive manufacture date: 4 Aug 2010. Thanks to all the experts here for the instructions.

Question, though: since my old drive had bad sectors, and got hung up doing mfscopy, I ended up doing the "Preserves Settings Only" upgrade. I was surprised to find my new disk has my old Now Playing list. Is this expected? I didn't see mention of it in the instructions. Of course, none of the recordings is there. Is there a simple way to delete all these bogus directory entries, or do I have to do it in the obvious, tedious way of show by show?

Meanwhile, I did manage to back up a significant portion of the old drive's shows to my PC, and now I want to move them back to the new drive. I can certainly pull them one by one from the Tivo desktop, which is of course pretty tedious. Are there better options? I tried running pyTivo, but I haven't managed to get its Push to work.


----------



## CraigK

bvm42 said:


> Question, though: since my old drive had bad sectors, and got hung up doing mfscopy, I ended up doing the "Preserves Settings Only" upgrade. I was surprised to find my new disk has my old Now Playing list. Is this expected? I didn't see mention of it in the instructions. Of course, none of the recordings is there. Is there a simple way to delete all these bogus directory entries, or do I have to do it in the obvious, tedious way of show by show?


I think the only way is the tedious show by show (but you can do this from the NP list using the Clear key). If you have several episodes of the same show you could try viewing them as folders (groups) and then delete the folders one at a time. That would speed things up.

Also besides phantom shows in the Now Playing list you may have some in the Recently Deleted folder, too.


----------



## bvm42

CraigK said:


> If you have several episodes of the same show you could try viewing them as folders (groups) and then delete the folders one at a time.


Ah, that's not nearly as tedious as I feared. I hadn't known you could delete a folder; you prompted me to discover the "Clear" shortcut. Unfortunately, it doesn't work on the Recently Deleted folder, which means that unless I tediously delete every show inside it (which requires confirmation, since it's permanent), I'll have a deceptive number of recently deleted shows for some while.

By the way, I did manage to get pyTivo's push to work. My problem, I believe, was my password contained a "#", which resulted in the server misparsing the init file.


----------



## CraigK

bvm42 said:


> Ah, that's not nearly as tedious as I feared. I hadn't known you could delete a folder; you prompted me to discover the "Clear" shortcut. Unfortunately, it doesn't work on the Recently Deleted folder, which means that unless I tediously delete every show inside it (which requires confirmation, since it's permanent), I'll have a deceptive number of recently deleted shows for some while.


Yes, ideally it's best to get rid of the phantom shows in both lists before you start transferring or recording new shows so you know what's real.

You'll find you use that Clear key shortcut quite often now.


----------



## richsadams

bvm42 said:


> Here's another data point for you. I upgraded my HD XL's 1TB disk to the 2TB WD20EVDS. I didn't do anything about Intellipark, and it seems to soft reboot okay. Drive manufacture date: 4 Aug 2010. Thanks to all the experts here for the instructions.


Thanks very much for that. :up: It appears that WD GP drives manufactured after August 1 may not need the Intellipark feature disabled. As more reports come in that should get solidified.

Enjoy!


----------



## testshot

richsadams said:


> Welcome to the forum! That drive will work fine with your TiVo HD. You can read various posts on Amazon and other sites saying as much and how much the owners like it. (There is one erroneous early post on Amazon saying that it didn't work but it's almost certain the OP had a faulty cable or bad drive).
> 
> Enjoy!


Thanks for the guidance - went with it and aside from a painstaking point to hunt down a bad coax connection somewhere up the line from my TiVo which came undone while moving things around behind the wall unit, the external install went fine.

@ThreeSoFar - Thanks for the guidance as well - agree that replacement of the internal drive would be cheaper and provide less fail points, but wasn't interested in cracking open the unit at the present time.


----------



## richsadams

testshot said:


> Thanks for the guidance - went with it and aside from a painstaking point to hunt down a bad coax connection somewhere up the line from my TiVo which came undone while moving things around behind the wall unit, the external install went fine.


Sounds good and enjoy all of that new "real estate"!


----------



## Zer0

Also an update on my upgrade:

Installed the WD10EVDS and did not disable Intellipark so with the IC version of 9.2a with a soft reboot it hangs at the welcome screen. After it updated to the latest 11.0h no soft reboot issue and it functions perfectly. The drive has a manufactured date of July 2010.


----------



## richsadams

Zer0 said:


> Also an update on my upgrade:
> 
> Installed the WD10EVDS and did not disable Intellipark so with the IC version of 9.2a with a soft reboot it hangs at the welcome screen. After it updated to the latest 11.0h no soft reboot issue and it functions perfectly. The drive has a manufactured date of July 2010.


Excellent, thanks for that! :up:

It would seem that combination of 11.0h and more recently manufactured WD drives may have taken care of the Intellipark soft reboot issue.


----------



## Robbdoe1

Hi All,
I'm having an issue with my S3 rebooting. It is an original S3 that I got from Woot in February. It is a refurb. Here is what I have done so far. I ran KS57 which only took about 30 minutes or so. I ran KS54 SMART test and the drive failed the extended test last night. I then ran the KS54 overnight test and the drive passed this morning. I re-ran the SMART test and the drive passed everything this time.

Some of the details:
unmodified.
I use a Tivo wireless G adapter.
The unit uses 2 CC's, 1-single and 1-multi

The unit started to get sluggish this weekend. The menus started populating slowly. Sunday night my wife noticed it reboot in the middle of the night. Monday it rebooted multiple times and was sluggish. I'm considering running KS57 and 58 today. I called Tivo CS last night and they are offering a $49 exchange to another refurb S3 plus shipping 1 way. I never backed the image up as I did not want to break the box and kill the warranty.

Do you think I can use this image if I pull it or is the image toast? If I can't use the image then the CC's will need to be re-paired with Brighthouse rolling on over. Re-pairing the CC's leads me to another option. I can get a $99 Hd from Block Buster which will be brand new. If I go that route I can then save 1 CC fee too.

Please give me any thoughts as to what you would do. Please tell me what I'm missing. Any replacement drive suggestions would be great. If I go that route I will get a 1TB to increase space. Dvr_Dude has a pretty good price for a 1TB imaged already. The other 2 guys have options too.

Help. Thanks in advance and I'm sorry this is so long winded.

Robb


----------



## richsadams

Robbdoe1 said:


> Hi All,
> I'm having an issue with my S3 rebooting. <snip>


Hi Rob. Sorry to hear about the frustrations with your Series3. Here is what I would do if I were in your shoes. I would take TiVo up on their offer to exchange the unit. I'd run the new one for a good month or so to be sure it was working properly. Then I'd go about upgrading the hard drive.

The reason I'd take this approach is to be sure whatever is causing your issues is resolved with a replacement. It's almost certainly a hard drive issue, but it's remotely possible it's something else and why take the risk of having more trouble if it is? I know you'll probably incur a truck roll to re-pair the cable cards, but this way you'll know everything is solid. (It's also possible that your cableco might let you call in the cable card info - Host ID, SN, etc. - so you might be able to avoid any additional charges.)

FWIW if KS57 took more than a few minutes it means that there were data corruption issues it tried to resolve. There are no guarantees that it did and based on your post, it doesn't sound like it was able to. KS58 may or may not help as well, but it's worth a try. SMART diagnostics (KS54) are not always reliable either.

If your TiVo starts and runs semi-normally the boot partition isn't a problem and you should be able to use the OEM drive to image a new one if you decide to go ahead and upgrade the internal hard drive now.

If you do go the DIY route (reasonably easy), with respect to hard drives, most folks are now using Western Digital's WD10EARS or WD10EVDS or WD10EVCS. The "EV" series is A/V dedicated and usually more expensive than the "EARS" series. Although the "EARS" is the same drive with respect to TiVo the Auto Acoustic Management (AAM) would probably need to be adjusted to 128 to make it quieter (also fairly easy). It's also possible that you would have to adjust the Intellipark feature to prevent the soft reboot issue these drives have...although more recent reports indicate that it may not be necessary for more recently manufactured WD drives. Adjusting the Intellipark feature is a tiny bit more complicated and requires a computer with an available SATA port (can't be done via USB/SATA adapter).

Another alternative drive is the Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000.C HD31000 IDK/7K. Again, although these drives are very quiet out of the box, the AAM setting would probably need to be set to 128 to make it even quieter. (No Intellipark adjustments.)

Or you could go with a pre-imaged replacement drive from DVRDude, Weaknees, DVRUpgrade, etc.

If you're going to get a replacement TiVo I would wait on ordering a new hard drive until you're ready to go to see if anything changes in the meantime. (If you go with a WD GP drive it would also help to ensure you're getting one manufactured more recently.)

Hope that helps and all of the upgrade info you need can be found in the first post:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160


----------



## Robbdoe1

Rich,
Thanks for the quick and detailed reply. I kinda agree with you on the Tivo exchange or possibly switching it to an HD from Block Buster. I'm leaning with the HD cause it is "new" and not another refurb. My wife also likes the new idea since this is messing with her TV time .

Tivo exchange will cost $49 plus say $20 shipping equals $69 give or take.
BB HD costs $99 plus $6 tax equals $105.
So for roughly $35 we go from refurb to new and 2 CC's to 1.

I'm still seeing issues today. Mostly non responsive on live TV. I pulled out the CC's just to check that out. 

If I go the HD route, I can use the M card I have for both tuners right?

I'm still on the fence with regard to how stable the image is on this thing.

Sorry I'm all over the place. Thanks for the help.
Robb


----------



## richsadams

Robbdoe1 said:


> I kinda agree with you on the Tivo exchange or possibly switching it to an HD from Block Buster.


That sounds like a more than reasonable way to go.

Yes, the TiVo HD would only need the one "M" (multi-stream) cable card.

If you grab one of the TiVo HD's you'd probably want to upgrade the internal hard drive eventually as they are pretty small (160GB) as compared to the Series3's 250GB. $99 is a good deal for the TiVo HD though and for about $50 you can get a 1TB drive on sale these days.

BTW, there's really no reason that you couldn't keep the Series3, upgrade it sometime and sell it on ebay and maybe even come out ahead. IIRC the S3's are still in a little more demand than the TiVo HD/HDXL's.

Transferring your service from your existing TiVo to a new one is very easy to do on line or you can call in as well.

Let us know what you end up doing!


----------



## Robbdoe1

richsadams said:


> Transferring your service from your existing TiVo to a new one is very easy to do on line or you can call in as well.


I have about 6 months left on an annual sub. If I buy a new HD I can transfer the TSN and still use the remaining balance?

CC's out made no diff.

Robb


----------



## richsadams

Robbdoe1 said:


> I have about 6 months left on an annual sub. If I buy a new HD I can transfer the TSN and still use the remaining balance?
> 
> CC's out made no diff.
> 
> Robb


I believe you can transfer your annual sub...if they give you any static I'd make sure they understand what you're up to...it's in their best interest.

The only other thing to try would be to disconnect everything (coax, broadband, etc.) except your TV and plug TiVo directly into a wall outlet (it's not a good idea to use a surge protector w/TiVo anyway...best to use a UPS) and see how it goes. Even if that makes things better it's still likely the hard drive.


----------



## dlfl

richsadams said:


> I believe you can transfer your annual sub...if they give you any static I'd make sure they understand what you're up to...it's in their best interest.
> ......


Yes you can do this -- should be no problem at all, just do it in your account on the TiVo website. When I bought my HD I switched from an S2DT and then immediately switched back for a few days while I returned the HD to Amazon for exchange. You may have to wait an hour or so for the change to take effect.


----------



## Robbdoe1

dlfl said:


> Yes you can do this -- should be no problem at all, just do it in your account on the TiVo website. When I bought my HD I switched from an S2DT and then immediately switched back for a few days while I returned the HD to Amazon for exchange. You may have to wait an hour or so for the change to take effect.


I spoke with a CS tonight and he confirmed what you both said. I can use the balance of my annual contract on a replacement weather I get it from them or Block Buster.

I went with the Tivo refurb exchange. The CS threw in free shipping both ways for my trouble.

Rich, your comment on hard drive size of the HD vs the S3 sealed the deal. Once I get it all set up and confirm it is working correctly I will pull the drive and back up the image this time.

Thanks for all the help guy's. I appreciate everything.

Robb


----------



## richsadams

Robbdoe1 said:


> I spoke with a CS tonight and he confirmed what you both said. I can use the balance of my annual contract on a replacement weather I get it from them or Block Buster.
> 
> I went with the Tivo refurb exchange. The CS threw in free shipping both ways for my trouble.
> 
> Rich, your comment on hard drive size of the HD vs the S3 sealed the deal. Once I get it all set up and confirm it is working correctly I will pull the drive and back up the image this time.
> 
> Thanks for all the help guy's. I appreciate everything.
> 
> Robb


Sounds good!


----------



## mphtrilogy

Rich,

Question:
I have two Tivo HD's.

Is it possible to take out the Hard Drive from one Tivo HD and add it to the other? Is there anything special that needs to be formatted or can it be installed cold?


----------



## DinoBambino

richsadams said:


> ...
> If you do go the DIY route (reasonably easy), with respect to hard drives, most folks are now using Western Digital's WD10EARS or WD10EVDS or WD10EVCS. The "EV" series is A/V dedicated and usually more expensive than the "EARS" series. Although the "EARS" is the same drive with respect to TiVo the Auto Acoustic Management (AAM) would probably need to be adjusted to 128 to make it quieter (also fairly easy). It's also possible that you would have to adjust the Intellipark feature to prevent the soft reboot issue these drives have...although more recent reports indicate that it may not be necessary for more recently manufactured WD drives. Adjusting the Intellipark feature is a tiny bit more complicated and requires a computer with an available SATA port (can't be done via USB/SATA adapter).
> ...


Rich,

Last night I upgraded a TivoHD with a WD10EARS drive. I decided to do the upgrade without running wdidle to disable the Intellipark feature since the drive was manufactured on 8/3/2010. After running a few tests (recording a show, connecting to Tivo, etc.), I did a soft reboot and was hung up on the "Welcome ..." screen. So, it seems like wdidle still needs to be run with the EARS drives.

Thanks,
Dean


----------



## bmgoodman

DinoBambino said:


> Rich,
> 
> Last night I upgraded a TivoHD with a WD10EARS drive. I decided to do the upgrade without running wdidle to disable the Intellipark feature since the drive was manufactured on 8/3/2010. After running a few tests (recording a show, connecting to Tivo, etc.), I did a soft reboot and was hung up on the "Welcome ..." screen. So, it seems like wdidle still needs to be run with the EARS drives.
> 
> Thanks,
> Dean


Did your Tivo HD have the latest software installed already? Or was this a new unit? I ask because I thought the soft reboot problem also required the latest Tivo software.


----------



## richsadams

mphtrilogy said:


> Rich,
> 
> Question:
> I have two Tivo HD's.
> 
> Is it possible to take out the Hard Drive from one Tivo HD and add it to the other? Is there anything special that needs to be formatted or can it be installed cold?


You can do that but you'd get an immediate error message so you'd need to run Clear and Delete Everything to get it to work. That will essentially create a "new" TiVo so I think that probably wrecks your plans to keep everything intact though.


----------



## richsadams

DinoBambino said:


> Rich,
> 
> Last night I upgraded a TivoHD with a WD10EARS drive. I decided to do the upgrade without running wdidle to disable the Intellipark feature since the drive was manufactured on 8/3/2010. After running a few tests (recording a show, connecting to Tivo, etc.), I did a soft reboot and was hung up on the "Welcome ..." screen. So, it seems like wdidle still needs to be run with the EARS drives.
> 
> Thanks,
> Dean


What bmgoodman said. Check the current version, if it's not 11.0h go ahead and try to force an update by going to Messages & Settings->Settings->Phone & Network->Connect now. Try that a few times. Once the download has completed you will see "Pending restart" listed in the "Last Status" line on the Phone & Network Screen and on the System Information screen. TiVo will automatically install the update at 2 a.m. your time or you can reboot it (unplug it and plug it back in) and it will update immediately.

If it's already running the latest software then yes, it's quite possible that Intellipark will need to be disabled (or extended). This seems to be hit and miss at the moment for some reason.

Let us know how it goes and TIA for reporting back!


----------



## DinoBambino

bmgoodman said:


> Did your Tivo HD have the latest software installed already? Or was this a new unit? I ask because I thought the soft reboot problem also required the latest Tivo software.





richsadams said:


> What bmgoodman said. Check the current version, if it's not 11.0h go ahead and try to force an update by going to Messages & Settings->Settings->Phone & Network->Connect now. Try that a few times. Once the download has completed you will see "Pending restart" listed in the Last Status line on the Phone & Network Screen and on the System Information screen. TiVo will automatically install the update at 2 a.m. your time or you can reboot it (unplug it and plug it back in) and it will update immediately.
> 
> If it's already running the latest software then yes, it's quite possible that Intellipark will need to be disabled (or extended). This seems to be hit and miss at the moment for some reason.
> 
> Let us know how it goes and TIA for reporting back!


I'm pretty sure that the Tivo has the latest software since the machine has been in use over a year.

I will check the software version later tonight after I get the kids to bed.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Dean


----------



## mphtrilogy

richsadams said:


> You can do that but you'd get an immediate error message so you'd need to run Clear and Delete Everything to get it to work. That will essentially create a "new" TiVo so I think that probably wrecks your plans to keep everything intact though.


I am ok with losing my data, since it will all be lost when I get rid of the expander, the other Tivo does not have much on it.

So would it be as easy as taking the hard drive out of Tivo HD 1 and putting it into the avaiable slot in Tivo HD2?

Or is there more to it?


----------



## dlfl

mphtrilogy said:


> I am ok with losing my data, since it will all be lost when I get rid of the expander, the other Tivo does not have much on it.
> 
> So would it be as easy as taking the hard drive out of Tivo HD 1 and putting it into the avaiable slot in Tivo HD2?
> 
> Or is there more to it?


If you are using CableCARD(s) you will have to have them re-installed on most cable systems, usually requiring a service call. I believe there are exceptions to this but don't know what they are. The only way to avoid this (unless you're on one of the lucky systems) is to backup and restore currently running TiVo systems, e.g., using WinMFS.


----------



## richsadams

mphtrilogy said:


> I am ok with losing my data, since it will all be lost when I get rid of the expander, the other Tivo does not have much on it.
> 
> So would it be as easy as taking the hard drive out of Tivo HD 1 and putting it into the avaiable slot in Tivo HD2?
> 
> Or is there more to it?


What dlfl said. Switching hard drives and running C&DE would be akin to having a brand new TiVo. Otherwise, yes it would be an easy swap out. (FYI there are no "slots" as we know them in computers...the hard drive sits on a sled that you have to pull (four screws) and then swap out the hard drive (four more screws). Looks like this. Quite simple though. You'll need a Torx 10 (T10) screwdriver to remove the cover and possibly a T15 for the drive...although more recently they've started using T10 screws for the cover and the hard drive mount. Torx screwdrivers can be found at Sears, most auto supply stores, etc.


----------



## Robbdoe1

Rich,
My Desktop only has IDE connectors with no SATA. Can I use an IDE/SATA adapter at the ribbon cable?

Robb


----------



## ThreeSoFar

I know people have used USB/SATA adapters, not sure about IDE.

I use this and it works fine, assuming you have a free PCI slot for it. You need cables to do the data back and forth to this, and possibly a power splitter that takes the large power cable off of your power supply and splits it into two SATA style power adapters.

RAID CARD ROSEWILL|RC-201 2P SATA R

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...ontrollers+/+RAID+Cards-_-Rosewill-_-16132001

Power cable options:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...re=sata_power_splitter-_-12-119-010-_-Product

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ..._re=sata_power_adapter-_-12-717-003-_-Product


Robbdoe1 said:


> Rich,
> My Desktop only has IDE connectors with no SATA. Can I use an IDE/SATA adapter at the ribbon cable?
> 
> Robb


----------



## richsadams

ThreeSoFar said:


> I know people have used USB/SATA adapters, not sure about IDE.


All looks good, but will the SATA/RAID controller work for adjusting the Intellipark feature? IIRC you have to have a direct MB SATA port connection.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

richsadams said:


> All looks good, but will the SATA/RAID controller work for adjusting the Intellipark feature? IIRC you have to have a direct MB SATA port connection.


It does. I used wdidle3 with a bootable DOS floppy. My BIOS (Dell Optiplex something-or-other) recognizes any SATA drives plugged into this and maps them somehow that even DOS saw it.


----------



## richsadams

ThreeSoFar said:


> It does. I used wdidle3 with a bootable DOS floppy. My BIOS (Dell Optiplex something-or-other) recognizes any SATA drives plugged into this and maps them somehow that even DOS saw it.


Excellent! I shall add that to my "tool kit" of knowledge. :up:


----------



## Robbdoe1

ThreeSoFar said:


> I know people have used USB/SATA adapters, not sure about IDE.
> 
> I use this and it works fine, assuming you have a free PCI slot for it. You need cables to do the data back and forth to this, and possibly a power splitter that takes the large power cable off of your power supply and splits it into two SATA style power adapters.
> 
> RAID CARD ROSEWILL|RC-201 2P SATA R
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...ontrollers+/+RAID+Cards-_-Rosewill-_-16132001
> 
> Power cable options:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...re=sata_power_splitter-_-12-119-010-_-Product
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ..._re=sata_power_adapter-_-12-717-003-_-Product


Very good. I have a free PCI slot and the second cable (SATA to 4pin should work) That could get me by in a pinch. Maybe?

If you had to pick a drive that did not have to be tuned or have the Intellipark issue, what drive would you choose?

Thanks Much.
Robb


----------



## richsadams

The Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000.C HD31000 IDK/7K. It's very quiet out of the box (average of 2.4bels to 2.5bels) and the AAM can be tuned to 128 making it even quieter. (Adjusting the AAM can be done via a USB/SATA dock or adapter and is very simple..can be done any time as well.) Also runs cool.


----------



## Robbdoe1

richsadams said:


> The Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000.C HD31000 IDK/7K. It's very quiet out of the box (average of 2.4bels to 2.5bels) and the AAM can be tuned to 128 making it even quieter. (Adjusting the AAM can be done via a USB/SATA dock or adapter and is very simple..can be done any time as well.) Also runs cool.


Thanks. I have the adapter already so that will make it easy even if I don't tune it. I'm having withdraw symptoms already. Thinking of getting the HD anyway to tide me over.

Robb


----------



## mkkelly75

So I read earlier in this thread that someone had success using the MFS tools to upgrade to a 2TB hdd following the standard instructions. It seemed it was working well but then he ran into some issues when it got full (forgive me if I am confusing 2 separate issues here). Is there an confirmation that this will not work or that it does? Haven't seen anything definitive.


----------



## MPSAN

ThreeSoFar said:


> It does. I used wdidle3 with a bootable DOS floppy. My BIOS (Dell Optiplex something-or-other) recognizes any SATA drives plugged into this and maps them somehow that even DOS saw it.


Must be BIOS adds as they would work before any OS is even loaded. That should also mean you could boot from a SATA on that card as well.


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Must be BIOS adds as they would work before any OS is even loaded. That should also mean you could boot from a SATA on that card as well.


Should'a known you'd know all about that stuff!


----------



## DinoBambino

richsadams said:


> What bmgoodman said. Check the current version, if it's not 11.0h go ahead and try to force an update by going to Messages & Settings->Settings->Phone & Network->Connect now. Try that a few times. Once the download has completed you will see "Pending restart" listed in the Last Status line on the Phone & Network Screen and on the System Information screen. TiVo will automatically install the update at 2 a.m. your time or you can reboot it (unplug it and plug it back in) and it will update immediately.
> 
> If it's already running the latest software then yes, it's quite possible that Intellipark will need to be disabled (or extended). This seems to be hit and miss at the moment for some reason.
> 
> Let us know how it goes and TIA for reporting back!


The Tivo is running software version 11.0h.

I ran wdidle against the Tivo upgrade drive. Now the soft reboot works fine without any hangups.

In my case, a WD10EARS manufactured on 8/3/2010 had the soft reboot issue.

Thanks to everyone in this forum who has provided advice and soultions for Tivo issues. I've fixed/replaced the power supply, fan and hard drive in my S2. Diagnosed a faulty WD Expander (never use one of those again). And, upgraded the internal drive in two TivoHd's.

Dean


----------



## richsadams

DinoBambino said:


> The Tivo is running software version 11.0h.
> 
> I ran wdidle against the Tivo upgrade drive. Now the soft reboot works fine without any hangups.
> 
> In my case, a WD10EARS manufactured on 8/3/2010 had the soft reboot issue.
> 
> Thanks to everyone in this forum who has provided advice and soultions for Tivo issues. I've fixed/replaced the power supply, fan and hard drive in my S2. Diagnosed a faulty WD Expander (never use one of those again). And, upgraded the internal drive in two TivoHd's.
> 
> Dean


Good info...thanks very much. :up: Oh, and enjoy!


----------



## richsadams

Dell has the 1TB WD10EARS hard drive on sale for $54.99 w/free shipping...

http://dell.to/aHn6sF


----------



## cbad

First, thank you for this incredible thread. I upgraded a hard drive after a crash and thanks to your step-by-steps, it was easy and went without a hitch. Well, until the TW guy tried to re-pair the cablecards, then it all went south...

Anyway, now I have a Series 3 with only one tuner (one slot got damaged). What I want to do is swap my new, cool large drive from my S3 to one of my TivoHDs with a small drive. 

It was suggested elsewhere that I could use winMFS to create backup images for each drive, and then swap the destination drive when I restore them. It was also suggested I double check that here first.  Sounds perfect and pretty easy, but I have a couple of questions:

1. When I restore the image from my small drive onto the large one, will it be smart enough to know there is a lot more space on the larger drive and be able to use it?

2. It looks like it will remember the cable card settings too. Did I get that right? I'd love to have a solution where I don't have to have TW back to mess with cards.

Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

cbad said:


> Anyway, now I have a Series 3 with only one tuner (one slot got damaged). What I want to do is swap my new, cool large drive from my S3 to one of my TivoHDs with a small drive. <snip>


Sorry to hear about the cable card incident...how frustrating! Is there any hope for your Series3? You might be able to get TiVo to swap it out for a price...and based on posts if you're a good customer (long-term, multiple TiVo's, etc.) the price might be negotiable.

If I'm reading your post right, you want to use your 1TB drive in your TiVo HD now correct? If so you would just start from scratch just as you did when you upgraded your Series3, following all of the steps on the FAQ. Since you'll be using your TiVo HD's hard drive to create an image for the new drive, yes your cable card info, Season Passes, etc. will remain intact. You can even save your recordings by following the full copy and restore procedure if want.

If you're thinking you can "save" anything from your 1TB drive, unfortunately, no that won't work. One because you can't swap images from one model (Series3) to another (TiVo HD) and two because winMFS will automatically format the new drive.

If you have recordings on your Series3 that you'd like to save you can use TiVo Desktop or another program like KMTTG to transfer (non copy protected) recordings from it to your computer and then back again to the upgraded TiVo HD later.

Probably not exactly what you wanted to hear, but hope that helps!


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Prices on 1TBs are as low as $55 or so, shipped. One at Dell was posted this week sometime in this thread.

Are you sure you don't want to leave the HDTiVO as is and just upgrade the drive in the S3?

Also, FYI, your S3 is still usable with both tuners, but only if you do NOT put any cableCARDs in it. It will record HD via the antenna, as well (both tuners). Of course, you won't get the pay/HD content via cable that way.

We have a single M (multistream) card in our two HDTiVos, and our two S3's are cable only, and one of those OTA. The fall season's just ramping up--I hope four HD tuners at a time is enough to avoid conflicts (we record a lot, obv.)



cbad said:


> First, thank you for this incredible thread. I upgraded a hard drive after a crash and thanks to your step-by-steps, it was easy and went without a hitch. Well, until the TW guy tried to re-pair the cablecards, then it all went south...
> 
> Anyway, now I have a Series 3 with only one tuner (one slot got damaged). What I want to do is swap my new, cool large drive from my S3 to one of my TivoHDs with a small drive.
> 
> It was suggested elsewhere that I could use winMFS to create backup images for each drive, and then swap the destination drive when I restore them. It was also suggested I double check that here first.  Sounds perfect and pretty easy, but I have a couple of questions:
> 
> 1. When I restore the image from my small drive onto the large one, will it be smart enough to know there is a lot more space on the larger drive and be able to use it?
> 
> 2. It looks like it will remember the cable card settings too. Did I get that right? I'd love to have a solution where I don't have to have TW back to mess with cards.
> 
> Thanks!


----------



## Robbdoe1

cbad said:


> First, thank you for this incredible thread. I upgraded a hard drive after a crash and thanks to your step-by-steps, it was easy and went without a hitch. Well, until the TW guy tried to re-pair the cablecards, then it all went south...
> 
> Anyway, now I have a Series 3 with only one tuner (one slot got damaged). What I want to do is swap my new, cool large drive from my S3 to one of my TivoHDs with a small drive.
> 
> It was suggested elsewhere that I could use winMFS to create backup images for each drive, and then swap the destination drive when I restore them. It was also suggested I double check that here first.  Sounds perfect and pretty easy, but I have a couple of questions:
> 
> 1. When I restore the image from my small drive onto the large one, will it be smart enough to know there is a lot more space on the larger drive and be able to use it?
> 
> 2. It looks like it will remember the cable card settings too. Did I get that right? I'd love to have a solution where I don't have to have TW back to mess with cards.
> 
> Thanks!


I told you he knew his stuff .
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455418
Rich is the man.

Robb


----------



## cbad

richsadams said:


> Probably not exactly what you wanted to hear, but hope that helps!


Actually, it's great advice and I can handle the truth.  But I'm not sure I explained what I'm trying to do very clearly, so let me try once more...

1. I want to swap drives between Tivos. I know I can't do it by just swapping the drives directly.

2. I have a 1TB drive in my S3, and whatever in my TivoHD.

3. I'll use winMFS to save an image on my computer for each drive.

4. I'll restore the image from my TivoHD on the 1TB drive, and then put that into my TivoHD. Note that is where the switch is occurring.

5. I'll restore the image from my S3 on the smaller drive, and then put that into my S3. Same kind of switch.

6. So now the only difference is the size of the drive. The right OS and drivers should be correct for each Tivo. Even the cablecard info should right. After all, the drives are generic, it's the info on them that makes the difference.

Of course, I assuming a lot by the above, but it seems reasonable.

So my question is, does the image also contain all the information about the drive volume size or will it adapt and allow the extra space on the larger drive to be used?

It kind of seems like it should work, but maybe you all have been through something like this before and see the error in my thinking.

Thanks!


----------



## cbad

richsadams said:


> Is there any hope for your Series3? You might be able to get TiVo to swap it out for a price...and based on posts if you're a good customer (long-term, multiple TiVo's, etc.) the price might be negotiable.


Haha, yep I've been a Tivo guy since the start, but haven't customized one till I saw your advice. Should have done it long ago. I still have my Series 1 in the garage which drives my wife crazy, but it really did change TV for me, so I'm not ready to part with it!

The S3 in question has my original lifetime sub from my S1 (cost me $100 back then). So I'm trying to keep it going without paying another upgrade until I really need it.

Thanks!


----------



## S3-2501

A relative of mine was getting worried that her DVR expander would be failing soon, so I offered to help her upgrade her internal drive. She got a WD10EVDS from Amazon, manufactured on 7/26/10. After divorcing her expander, copying her old drive to the WD10EVDS, expanding, supersizing,etc. it booted up fine, and passed a soft menu reboot as well. Her original drive had the latest software, 11.0h

I also checked the aam setting on the drive and can confirm that these drives are set at 128 out of the box.

I hope this data point proves useful! These AV-dedicated drives are less than $80 on Amazon now, and with the apparent lack of intellipark issues with the combination of recent builds and the 11.0h software, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend these drives to anyone looking to upgrade right now!


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Change TV for you?

More than that. Changed your life. Mine, anyway.

My Dad was born in 1927, died in 2004, but not before I got him hooked on TiVo.

"It's the best thing ever." That's what he said.



cbad said:


> Haha, yep I've been a Tivo guy since the start, but haven't customized one till I saw your advice. Should have done it long ago. I still have my Series 1 in the garage which drives my wife crazy, but it really did change TV for me, so I'm not ready to part with it!
> 
> The S3 in question has my original lifetime sub from my S1 (cost me $100 back then). So I'm trying to keep it going without paying another upgrade until I really need it.
> 
> Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

cbad said:


> Actually, it's great advice and I can handle the truth.  But I'm not sure I explained what I'm trying to do very clearly, so let me try once more...<snip>


Ah, okay, good info. With respect to upgrading/restoring your TiVo HD's image to the 1TB hard drive using winMFS and the standard upgrade procedure, yes that s/b fine. In other words, the process would be the same no matter where the 1TB drive came from (winMFS will format the 1TB drive, and you'll expand the TiVo HD's partitions and such as normal).

Where I think you will run into trouble with a capital "T" is trying to restore your Series3's image to the TiVo HD's drive...I say _I think _because I've never heard of anyone doing that...basically downgrading using an upgraded image. I'm almost certain that you have to use an original (non-expanded) TiVo image because images from upgraded TiVo's won't work on subsequent upgrades...and I would think "downgrades". Also keep in mind that your Series3 came with a 250GB hard drive as opposed to your TiVo HD which has a 160GB hard drive. I don't think even an _original_ Series3 image will be able to deal with that.

Sooo...here is what I would do if I were you: leave your Series3 alone. The 1TB drive inside already has some miles on it and what you're looking to do may or may not work. Pony up for a 1TB hard drive. Dell has them on sale for $55 but I see they are OOS at the moment, however Newegg has them for $59.99 through the 15th or you could go with a WD10EVDS from Amazon for $78 and as S3-2501 suggests probably skip dealing with the Intellipark and AAM adjustments. Use that brand spanking new drive to upgrade your TiVo HD the old fashioned way and you're back in business. Since you're an old hand at it, it'll be a breeze.

It's the old "if it ain't broke, don't fix it until it is" approach (to paraphrase my good friend MPSAN).

BTW, I'd still see what TiVo can do for you with respect to exchanging your Series3...providing you have the original hard drive that is.

Let us know how things go and happy, um, upgrading, sort of. 

BTW, I also have our Series1 (dual drive upgrade!) and a couple of Series 2's in our garage...just can't give them up!


----------



## richsadams

ThreeSoFar said:


> Change TV for you?
> 
> More than that. Changed your life. Mine, anyway.
> 
> My Dad was born in 1927, died in 2004, but not before I got him hooked on TiVo.
> 
> "It's the best thing ever." That's what he said.


You said it brother! :up: :up: :up:


----------



## richsadams

S3-2501 said:


> A relative of mine was getting worried that her DVR expander would be failing soon, so I offered to help her upgrade her internal drive. She got a WD10EVDS from Amazon, manufactured on 7/26/10. After divorcing her expander, copying her old drive to the WD10EVDS, expanding, supersizing,etc. it booted up fine, and passed a soft menu reboot as well. Her original drive had the latest software, 11.0h
> 
> I also checked the aam setting on the drive and can confirm that these drives are set at 128 out of the box.
> 
> I hope this data point proves useful! These AV-dedicated drives are less than $80 on Amazon now, and with the apparent lack of intellipark issues with the combination of recent builds and the 11.0h software, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend these drives to anyone looking to upgrade right now!


Those are very good data points indeed. Thanks very much. :up:


----------



## DCIFRTHS

richsadams said:


> Those are very good data points indeed. Thanks very much. :up:


Is the FAQ was up to date regarding the WD drives? I am somewhat confused because I know that the Intellipark feature was causing some problems, and the FAQ currently reflects that information, but it seems that some recent posts suggest that the latest WD drive are compatible with the new TiVo software.

Any info / links would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!


----------



## cbad

richsadams said:


> It's the old "if it ain't broke, don't fix it until it is" approach


OK, you convinced me. I've got the drive coming from NewEgg. 5400rpm doesn't cause performance problems for Tivo, right?

It'll be a luxury having all that extra space anyway. 

Thanks!


----------



## cbad

ThreeSoFar said:


> Change TV for you?
> More than that. Changed your life. Mine, anyway.


Haha, that's more like it. It allowed TV to revolve around my life, rather than the other way around. That's the way it should be!


----------



## richsadams

cbad said:


> OK, you convinced me. I've got the drive coming from NewEgg. 5400rpm doesn't cause performance problems for Tivo, right?
> 
> It'll be a luxury having all that extra space anyway.
> 
> Thanks!


No 5400 RPM issues at all...hundreds of WD GP drives are successfully being used in TiVo's (including all of yours truly's  ).

More space....gooooood.


----------



## richsadams

DCIFRTHS said:


> Is the FAQ was up to date regarding the WD drives? I am somewhat confused because I know that the Intellipark feature was causing some problems, and the FAQ currently reflects that information, but it seems that some recent posts suggest that the latest WD drive are compatible with the new TiVo software.
> 
> Any info / links would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!


It is a little confusing right now. I think bkdtv is wise not to update the FAQ until the dust fully settles with regard to recommended Western Digital hard drives. As you pointed out, the Intellipark "feature" is the fly in the ointment of a list of very good drive upgrade options.

In a nutshell, probably the most often used drive for upgrades now is the WD10EARS since it's so plentiful in the marketplace and the cost is hovering around $50 or $60 on sale. They are preforming fine, but as you note there is an inconsistency with the Intellipark feature and the soft reboot issue. Depending on the manufacture date some seem to not need any adjustments to it at all; a menu restart is successful as long as the TiVo in question has the latest OS (v11.0h) installed. Others have had to adjust the timeout or disable it before they could avoid a soft reboot hang and yet others have had to adjust Intellipark before TiVo would even boot up properly. So at the moment there's no clear line of delineation, at least based on the drive's manufacture date, as to which ones will work without issue and which ones won't. It seems that some/most manufactured after the first week in August this year don't need to be tweaked, but again, there's not enough feedback to state that without equivocation. The same goes for other WD GP drive models on the market.

It also appears that WD's A/V dedicated line of hard drives, WD10EVxx, manufactured after July 1 or so do not need the Intellipark "feature" adjusted. However again, there's not enough information to easily make that claim.

So the jury is still out on which WD GP drives can be relied upon without any tweaks...at least for now. More feedback/datapoints are always appreciated.

A number of folks here are successfully using an alternative to the WD drives, Hitachi's Deskstar 7K1000.C HD31000 IDK/7K. (Note it needs to be that particular model as their standard drives are much nosier.)


----------



## ThAbtO

My THD is experiencing freeze-ups this AM, and now in process of divorcing the 500 mg expander. Went to Best Buy and bought a 10EAVS, Green, 18-mar-2010.

I will put in the new drive later on.


Lost all my America's got Talent, 14 episodes, and a This Old House episode that I wanted in HD format.

Edit: Seems like the Expander was the problem; since the divorce, the THD has normalized, for now.

Does anyone know how much HD space a Win MFS backup would occupy, with Settings?


----------



## Robbdoe1

S3-2501 said:


> A relative of mine was getting worried that her DVR expander would be failing soon, so I offered to help her upgrade her internal drive. She got a WD10EVDS from Amazon, manufactured on 7/26/10. After divorcing her expander, copying her old drive to the WD10EVDS, expanding, supersizing,etc. it booted up fine, and passed a soft menu reboot as well. Her original drive had the latest software, 11.0h
> 
> I also checked the aam setting on the drive and can confirm that these drives are set at 128 out of the box.
> 
> I hope this data point proves useful! These AV-dedicated drives are less than $80 on Amazon now, and with the apparent lack of intellipark issues with the combination of recent builds and the 11.0h software, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend these drives to anyone looking to upgrade right now!


I pulled the trigger on this drive today from the Egg. They did price match for me Amazons price. That allowed me to pay with Paypal and use a balance I just had sitting there. It never hurts to ask. I hope I have the same good results you had with this drive install.

Robb


----------



## richsadams

ThAbtO said:


> My THD is experiencing freeze-ups this AM, and now in process of divorcing the 500 mg expander. Went to Best Buy and bought a 10EAVS, Green, 18-mar-2010.
> 
> I will put in the new drive later on.
> 
> Lost all my America's got Talent, 14 episodes, and a This Old House episode that I wanted in HD format.
> 
> Edit: Seems like the Expander was the problem; since the divorce, the THD has normalized, for now.
> 
> Does anyone know how much HD space a Win MFS backup would occupy, with Settings?


Sorry to hear about your "loss". How old was your Expander? That's really frustrating.

A truncated backup is small. I just took a look at an old TiVo HD image backup and it's 441MB. I guess that's not small by old-school standards, but in the world of terabytes it's not very big in any case.


----------



## ThAbtO

richsadams said:


> Sorry to hear about your "loss". How old was your Expander? That's really frustrating.
> 
> A truncated backup is small. I just took a look at an old TiVo HD image backup and it's 441MB. I guess that's not small by old-school standards, but in the world of terabytes it's not very big in any case.


Well, I got the THD in Oct '07 and I believe the expander a few months after that.

I'm thinking about doing the backup first, then return the HD to the Tivo to use while I 'restore' to the EAVS. Also, to put the backup to DVD.


----------



## richsadams

ThAbtO said:


> Well, I got the THD in Oct '07 and I believe the expander a few months after that.
> 
> I'm thinking about doing the backup first, then return the HD to the Tivo to use while I 'restore' to the EAVS. Also, to put the backup to DVD.


Wow, AFAIK that's the longest anyone has reported a 500GB Expander to have survived! Most never make it to their two-year birthday.

Sounds like a good plan. I always keep my original TiVo hard drives on the shelf in case one of my upgraded drives fails, plus I can slip it back in to get back up and running quickly while waiting for a replacement to show up, so that's my backup plan. However having it on a thumb drive or disk couldn't hurt. I was surprised I found my old TiVo HD's truncated backup on my PC's hard drive. I sold the THD a while back when I bought a Premiere XL so I guess it's safe to delete it now. 

BTW, I hadn't fired up my PC for a little while (all Mac household now) and was shocked (but not surprised) to see 73 critical Windows updates - mostly security related - and 11 optional updates waiting to be installed. I think our Macs have had four or so in the same time period. Well, that will give my PC something to do this afternoon.


----------



## ThAbtO

ThAbtO said:


> My THD is experiencing freeze-ups this AM, and now in process of divorcing the 500 mg expander. Went to Best Buy and bought a 10EAVS, Green, 18-mar-2010.


I finished the drive which took about 1.5 hrs to do, but I couldn't figure out how to do the WDidle. I did it with my XP drive still in place. Result is 157 hrs, the backup file size was 470 megs.

I also tried to write the files to CD and kept getting read errors during the verify process. I had used 3 TDK CDs that were new and still wrapped, though about 10 yrs old. Finally wrote onto a cheaper CD which wasn't quite so old and worked.


----------



## richsadams

ThAbtO said:


> I finished the drive which took about 1.5 hrs to do, but I couldn't figure out how to do the WDidle. I did it with my XP drive still in place. Result is 157 hrs, the backup file size was 470 megs.
> 
> I also tried to write the files to CD and kept getting read errors during the verify process. I had used 3 TDK CDs that were new and still wrapped, though about 10 yrs old. Finally wrote onto a cheaper CD which wasn't quite so old and worked.


Nice to be back in business eh? Enjoy!


----------



## ThAbtO

richsadams said:


> Nice to be back in business eh? Enjoy!


Its been up for about 1.5 hrs now, but the only problem is the menu restart which gets stalled in the start up and doesn't get to the few min more screen. Running 11.0h.


----------



## richsadams

ThAbtO said:


> Its been up for about 1.5 hrs now, but the only problem is the menu restart which gets stalled in the start up and doesn't get to the few min more screen. Running 11.0h.


Bummer. Sounds like you'll need to run wdidle3 after all. Or if it's not a big deal you could just plan on power cycling your TiVo whenever an update is pushed out...that doesn't happen too often.


----------



## ThAbtO

Now I am wondering what's the largest drive a S2-540 can handle?


----------



## DCIFRTHS

richsadams said:


> It is a little confusing right now. I think bkdtv is wise not to update the FAQ until the dust fully settles with regard to recommended Western Digital hard drives. As you pointed out, the Intellipark "feature" is the fly in the ointment of a list of very good drive upgrade options. ...


As always, thanks for the awesome, detailed information. My confusion came from the disparity between the FAQ, and the posts I've seen here. I agree that upgrading the FAQ, at this point in time, is not a good idea.

Hopefully the summary you wrote will help others that have the same questions I did.


----------



## Robbdoe1

Not a bad deal for those looking for a 2TB.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-_-na-_-na-_-na&AID=10440897&PID=3668349&SID=

Robb


----------



## tcfcameron

-Originally posted in the "Drive upgrades in a Premiere unit?" thread, but I felt this thread was a better home for it.



richsadams said:


> Also as mentioned, Western Digital's A/V dedicated hard drives have a number of proprietary features including "Silkstream", "Intelliseek", "Intellipark" and "Preemptive Wear Leveling" (PWL) all of which for one reason or another TiVo cannot take advantage. These added "features" contribute to the cost of the drives but not to any actual performance enhancements in TiVo.


I've been wanting to say something regarding how some people keep stating that none of these AV feature sets can be utilized by the TiVo (or in this case stating that they can't/won't enhance performance).

I disagree, but only in a matter of degrees:

Some feature sets are embedded and operate entirely within the drive. "S.M.A.R.T." is a good basic example. But, if said feature set is also supported by the host, you can get more from the feature (read the SMART data that is stored on the drive, for example). While not the best example, it's one everybody knows of (pretty much). You can also take a SMART capable drive that has been running in a host that doesn't support SMART, move it to one that does, and the SMART data will all be there to read. Now, on the flip side of the coin, there are feature sets that are useless without host support (such as SilkStream, which some day may be advanced enough that the drive itself can detect the type of data and automatically utilize the appropriate feature set, but until/unless that happens, useless).

Here's some further thoughts, as well as a few quotes from Western Digital's website and spec sheets:

The current WD20EADS (GP, non-AV) drive specifications include:
"Intelliseek - Calculates optimum seek speeds to lower power consumption, noise, and vibration." - from WD web site.

Intelliseek seems to be doing it's job very well with the WD20EADS drives in my four TiVo HDs. (I believe it is also a firmware controlled feature that does not require the host to support it to utilize it.) I have found that my TiVos get laggy when doing things such as reorganizing SPs and other drive-intensive operations if I enable AAM at all, while not making any discernible difference in audible seeking noise. I also tested this by using Hitachi Feature Tool, which allows real-time adjustment of AAM with a slider and allows you to listen as the software makes the drive perform full/random seek operations. My WD20EADS drives (bare OEM from Fry's) came with AAM disabled. I believe they were manufactured in Q3, 2010.

One feature that is not listed for GP-only (but is listed for WD20EVDS AV-GP):
"IntelliPark - Delivers lower power consumption by automatically unloading the heads during idle to reduce aerodynamic drag." - this feature is only listed on the spec sheets for the AV-GP, yet if it isn't in the GP-only feature set, why would WDIDLE3 be needed for non-AV models? So, it must be there and function at some capacity, but the TiVos apparently lack a proper command to un-park the heads, thus WD must have began including that into the firmware, making it another fully firmware controlled feature, like IntelliSeek, in the newer (more recently manufactured) drives. It actually seems like there is nearly no need for this feature in an AV-GP drive, yet it has potential for use in GP-only drives, where it isn't listed as a feature. <scratching head on this one>

This is a feature listed for WD20EADS (GP, non-AV):
"NoTouch ramp load technology - The recording head never touches the disk media ensuring better drive protection in transit as well as significantly less wear to the recording head and media." -If a TiVo being rebooted from the menu, (hypothetically), sends a "Shut-Down" or "Standby" command to the drive, but something in the newer drives' firmware changed and the "Resume" command isn't properly recognized by the drive firmware, this could explain things with the "soft-reboot issue". Perhaps WDIDLE3 is really adjusting this, when used on GP-only drives. Note that this is not the same as IntelliPark, which could be something that the FAQ could include in the future to avoid confusion (hint-hint, wink).

Preemptive Wear Leveling (PWL) AV-GP models only:
"The drive arm frequently sweeps across the disk to reduce uneven wear on the drive surface common to audio video streaming applications." This is a drive firmware controlled feature. It does not matter what the drive is connected to. (Yet, I fail to understand what this could achieve, since WD brags about how "The recording head never touches the disk media..." in both the AV-GP and the GP-only models. How does a head, riding on air, that never touches the platter, cause uneven platter wear?)

"StableTrac - The motor shaft is secured at both ends to reduce system-induced vibration and stabilize platters for accurate tracking, during read and write operations. (2 TB models only)" - This isn't listed as a feature on the AV-GP 2TB model, but it is on the GP-only 2TB.

It seems to me that the GP-only drives may actually have a few features that don't rely on the host they are installed in to be functional, which actually make them better than the AV-GP drives (for TiVo use). One thing that is true, and will certainly be beaten like a dead horse, is that non-AV drives don't have a 24x7 rating. I'm not concerned about it. I care more about "features" and which ones actually are of benefit to me when the host is my TiVo. I've been running hard drives in computers 24x7 for over 10 years, and it's always been the ones that weren't being run 24x7 that died early deaths.

-Originally posted in the "Drive upgrades in a Premiere unit?" thread, but I felt this thread was a better home for it.


----------



## vectorcatch

"IntelliPark - Delivers lower power consumption by automatically unloading the heads during idle to reduce aerodynamic drag." - this feature is only listed on the spec sheets for the AV-GP, yet if it isn't in the GP-only feature set, why would WDIDLE3 be needed for non-AV models? So, it must be there and function at some capacity, but the TiVos apparently lack a proper command to un-park the heads, thus WD must have began including that into the firmware, making it another fully firmware controlled feature, like IntelliSeek, in the newer (more recently manufactured) drives. It actually seems like there is nearly no need for this feature in an AV-GP drive, yet it has potential for use in GP-only drives, where it isn't listed as a feature. <scratching head on this one>

Regarding this comment.

Intellipark is anything, but intelligent. It simply waits a defined amount of time (8 seconds by default on most drives) and if the drive has gone idle it parks the heads. There is no command to utilize it. The only thing that WD has tweaked over the last few years is the definition of "idle". This can be seen by two drives in identical scenarios determining idle at different times.

I have a bunch of notebook class drives with this feature and running in a RAID array (Some RAID1, other RAID5). If the feature is not turned off you can see/hear that the newer drives don't idle anywhere near as often, even though the timeout is the same on both. Same drive model, but newer manufacturing date.

There is actually a counter in SMART information to tell you how many times the heads have been parked. (However, based on information from various NAS forums WD may have stopped the counter from showing the real values).

Another interesting note is that a TiVo drive should, under normal circumstances, never go idle. It is constantly recording to the live buffers, therefore there is no benefit to Intellipark.


----------



## cbad

vectorcatch said:


> Another interesting note is that a TiVo drive should, under normal circumstances, never go idle. It is constantly recording to the live buffers, therefore there is no benefit to Intellipark.


That also suggests that there is no harm to having Intellipark for Tivo either since it should never go idle. I guess my real question is: are WD drives w/Intellipark good drives for Tivo, whether or not there is a benefit from Intellipark?


----------



## richsadams

cbad said:


> That also suggests that there is no harm to having Intellipark for Tivo either since it should never go idle. I guess my real question is: are WD drives w/Intellipark good drives for Tivo, whether or not there is a benefit from Intellipark?


Actually the Intellipark feature is in fact a detriment when it comes to TiVo as it prevents it from rebooting after a software update (or a menu restart). If left alone the owner would have to power cycle TiVo to get it up and running again. Granted updates only happen a few times a year, but that would be an annoyance at minimum.

The TiVo/Intellipark issue has been addressed with the latest OS from TiVo (v11.0h) and the most recently manufactured drives from Western Digital. (Although there are still plenty of older drives in the marketplace and no doubt the supply line). So having to manually extend or disable the Intellipark timeout looks like it eventually will be moot point (or a "moo point" as Joey in Seinfeld said...no one cares what a cow thinks ).

That said there are hundreds of folks here successfully using WD's GP drives in their TiVo's including yours truly. More here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8130930#post8130930


----------



## vectorcatch

cbad said:


> That also suggests that there is no harm to having Intellipark for Tivo either since it should never go idle. I guess my real question is: are WD drives w/Intellipark good drives for Tivo, whether or not there is a benefit from Intellipark?


If I were to surmise the reason that Intellipark causes the soft reboot problem:

When the WD drives comes back from parking the heads, they take an extra second or so to return to normal operation.

If the TiVo has tight timeouts (micro-second range) (as would be normal for any embedded style device), it is possible that the drive "parks" unexpectedly and causes the TiVo to timeout on an access operation (the drive doesn't "wake" fast enough). It is possible if this is boot code, that TiVo software handles this as a "critical" error and goes into some sort of Error loop.

To continue the conjecture, I have noticed with my notebook drives that after an initial power up the timeout is much longer than 8 seconds. There is probably an initial timer before the 8 seconds goes into affect implemented to avoid slowing down the bootup process on a PC. My guess is TiVo does not actually "reset" the drive on a soft-reboot which causes the timer to actually use 8 seconds instead of whatever initial timeout is hard coded by WD.

This is all conjecture, but based on my embedded knowledge seems like a reasonable conclusion. Obviously, both a longer timeout on TiVo's part or a modified "idle" detection on WD's part could fix this if it were the case.


----------



## richsadams

vectorcatch said:


> If I were to surmise the reason that Intellipark causes the soft reboot problem:
> 
> When the WD drives comes back from parking the heads, they take an extra second or so to return to normal operation.
> 
> If the TiVo has tight timeouts (micro-second range) (as would be normal for any embedded style device), it is possible that the drive "parks" unexpectedly and causes the TiVo to timeout on an access operation (the drive doesn't "wake" fast enough). <snip>.


That's more-or-less the conclusion everyone came to late last year. If you Google "Intellipark" you'll find many, many links to discussions about it and the problems it causes...particularly in the Linux communities.

Interestingly enough the Intellipark issue was first discovered and discussed here with stock TiVo HDXL units which employ the 1TB WD10EVVS drive. There was a sudden (albeit small) firestorm of complaints on the TCF after a standard update was pushed out. Owners of HDXL's were none too happy when they discovered their TiVo's sitting idle after the update. So TiVo was impacted by WD's "improvement" to their Green Power Drive's feature set almost immediately (WD apparently never taking the time to notify their partners about the change). TiVo addressed it fairly quickly for those units and subsequently patched the OS for the the other hi-def models as well. (Which was going above and beyond as they had no requirement to do so, particularly for Series3's.) WD has obviously heard the complaints from the general market as well and made some manufacturing changes within the last 30 to 60 days or so depending on the series.

With respect to what happens when the Intellipark/soft reboot issue occurs; when TiVo boots up it hangs at the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen meaning that the motherboard was unable to communicate with the hard drive. That's where it ends, no more, no less.

As mentioned, the issue has been addressed, but it will take a little longer for the older WD GP drives in the market to be exhausted before we can once again declare all of the WD GP series of drives as "recommended" w/o the Intellipark caveat.


----------



## MPSAN

cbad said:


> That also suggests that there is no harm to having Intellipark for Tivo either since it should never go idle. I guess my real question is: are WD drives w/Intellipark good drives for Tivo, whether or not there is a benefit from Intellipark?


However, during a reboot, all buffer recording activity stops. Perhaps the idle mode gets activated while the ROM is checking the TIVO. I always wondered if the code is loaded into memory, and the ROM checks the code and then continues. I wonder as the code can not be changed without a ROM change as they know if it has been messed with. I suspect that is one reason it takes so darn long to boot these TiVo's!.


----------



## MaxWin100

I can't find any of the drives listed in the sticky. Amazon sells two Hitachi Deskstar drives: one with one part of the model number and another with the other part of the model number. I don't get it. Which drive works?

Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000
http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-Desks...UTF8&coliid=I2M8NYO2S13BXJ&colid=BVIEQTARIRC6

Hitachi Deskstar HDS31000
http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-Desks...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1284489728&sr=8-1


----------



## richsadams

MaxWin100 said:


> I can't find any of the drives listed in the sticky. Amazon sells two Hitachi Deskstar drives: one with one part of the model number and another with the other part of the model number. I don't get it. Which drive works?
> 
> Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000
> http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-Desks...UTF8&coliid=I2M8NYO2S13BXJ&colid=BVIEQTARIRC6
> 
> Hitachi Deskstar HDS31000
> http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-Desks...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1284489728&sr=8-1


Actually they are both the same hard drive, the Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000.C.

The first one listed is an OEM/bare bones drive. The second is the full retail kit which includes a SATA cable, mounting screws and installation guide. You'll be fine with the OEM drive (good price by the way) unless you need a SATA cable and/or mounting screws and instructions for a computer application.

It's interesting to note that some of the customer submitted photos of a retail kit are actually for the 2TB model.


----------



## ciucca

I just updated my wife's TivoHD with a WD 1tb drive WD10EVDS. It's been working great for the past month. All problems are gone. It was have random picture freezes and reboots, and locking up during amazon downloads, with the remote failing to respond. 

I just want to point out that I ran wdidle /s0 with this drive to disable the intellipark feature, wdidle /D as stated earlier in this thread, did not work, it just hangs.


----------



## vectorcatch

ciucca said:


> I just updated my wife's TivoHD with a WD 1tb drive WD10EVDS. It's been working great for the past month. All problems are gone. It was have random picture freezes and reboots, and locking up during amazon downloads, with the remote failing to respond.
> 
> I just want to point out that I ran wdidle /s0 with this drive to disable the intellipark feature, nit /D as stated earlier in this thread.


Did /D not work? What version of WDIDLE3 did you use? 1.00, 1.03 or 1.05?Many people have had issues with 1.03.

Does the Drive report the Idle Timer being disabled when you check it?


----------



## ThAbtO

IMO, when I upgraded my THD to a 1tb Sunday, it went very fast, only took about a minute for each of backup, then restore since the drive was practically empty. I was surprised it was that fast. I have heard here the backup/restore took many hours.


----------



## ciucca

vectorcatch said:


> Did /D not work? What version of WDIDLE3 did you use? 1.00, 1.03 or 1.05?Many people have had issues with 1.03.
> 
> Does the Drive report the Idle Timer being disabled when you check it?


I'm not sure of the version. Yes it did report that the timer was disabled, after the command.


----------



## richsadams

ThAbtO said:


> I was surprised it was that fast. I have heard here the backup/restore took many hours.


Those reports are usually from folks that do a full backup and restore including all of their recordings.

Congrats and enjoy!


----------



## ThAbtO

richsadams said:


> Those reports are usually from folks that do a full backup and restore including all of their recordings.
> 
> Congrats and enjoy!


It was like a "full" backup, but with a rather near-empty drive, since the divorce of the expander left me with only 1 show in the recently deleted folder.


----------



## richsadams

ThAbtO said:


> It was like a "full" backup, but with a rather empty drive, since the divorce of the expander left me with only 1 show in the recently deleted folder.


You gave your computer a break! The three-plus hour backup and restore folks usually say their drives are about full...some forget to permanently delete all of the files from the Recently Deleted folder as well, so they get a copy of those too.


----------



## ThAbtO

richsadams said:


> You gave your computer a break! The three-plus hour backup and restore folks usually say their drives are about full...some forget to permanently delete all of the files from the Recently Deleted folder as well, so they get a copy of those too.


I only have 1 computer with SATA ports, 1 old computer not even running XP, 1 currently inoperable due to PS, and a laptop.


----------



## cbad

richsadams said:


> The TiVo/Intellipark issue has been addressed with the latest OS from TiVo (v11.0h) and the most recently manufactured drives from Western Digital.


My drive came today and it is dated Dec 26, 2009. Doesn't sound that recent. What do you think?

Thanks,

Jim


----------



## Robbdoe1

cbad said:


> My drive came today and it is dated Dec 26, 2009. Doesn't sound that recent. What do you think?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jim


Rut Row. You never did say what drive you bought. There are still alot of conflicting reports regarding Intellipark. I went with the 10EV in hopes of avoiding having to fool with it. Let us know?

Thanks.
Robb


----------



## cbad

Robbdoe1 said:


> Rut Row. You never did say what drive you got bought.


Sorry, it was a continuation of other posts, but with all the activity here I should have known better. It's a WD10EARS, dated Dec 26, 2009.

Thanks!


----------



## Robbdoe1

cbad said:


> Sorry, it was a continuation of other posts, but with all the activity here I should have known better. It's a WD10EARS, dated Dec 26, 2009.
> 
> Thanks!


I'm thinking you *will* have to mess with the Intellipark. You could always try it and do a soft reboot and see if it hangs. If it does then you can always run wdidle3. Do you have a spare Sata port on your PC's Mobo?

Robb


----------



## cbad

Robbdoe1 said:


> you can always run wdidle3. Do you have a spare Sata port on your PC's Mobo?


Yea, a ton of them. Will wdidle3 solve any issues? If so, I'll investigate.

Thanks!


----------



## Robbdoe1

cbad said:


> Yea, a ton of them. Will wdidle3 solve any issues? If so, I'll investigate.
> 
> Thanks!


Yes It will solve or should solve the soft rebbot issue on that drive. Read back a few pages in this thread regarding the issue. Here is a link to wdidle3 from the first post of this thread, section V #14, give that a look see:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/kccixj

Robb


----------



## s2krazy

Aloha everybody, I've been reading the last five or six pages of this 200 page thread and I need to post a couple of questions. First off, I'm a longtime Tivo user, from a Sony Series 1 to a Series 2 and my current Tivo HD (TCD652160). Recently, it's been experiencing freezes and stuttering which seem to indicate the hard drive is failing. My local cable provider had a series of outages yesterday and when I was power cycling the tuning adapter and the Tivo I could not get past the " welcome, starting up" screen. All I have is a black/grey screen. 

So I'm thinking about repairing the tivo myself vs. buying a drive kit from DVRUpgrade or Weaknees etc. It seems as if the general consensus is that the 1 TB Hitachi Deskstar is a good choice. I already like them and I've actually got two of in my current PC. I am pretty comfortable working on the insides of these machines, I've built all of my PCs since the Pentium days.

However, I'd like to "think out loud" with everybody here to make sure I'm on the right track. 

1) if my current hard drive has indeed gone belly up, does this mean that I will be unable to pull my settings from it? Or, if after I have the hard drive out of the tivo, can I plug it into my PC and "defrag it" or otherwise work on it?

2) if the drive is entirely unrecoverable, and I have a shiny new 1 TB drive, I'm assuming I'm going to need some kind of software on the drive to prepare it for use in the tivo. Is this WinMFS or do I need to buy InstantCake? Or is there another choice?

3) If I end up witb a new drive (and i couldn't copy the old info from the old drive), would I be correct in assuming that I may need to get Time Warner cable to roll a truck to re-pair the cable card with the tivo?

4) Finally, it's not entirely lost on me that I can buy an exact copy of my current tivo for under $200. I understand that my lifetime subscription is on the ROM of my existing Tivo, having a second of the same thing would give me a whole slew of replacement parts. While this might sound silly at first, if I ended up needing a new power supply and a hard drive and InstantCake, it's getting pretty close. (Not counting the significant difference in hard drive storage)

Anyway, there's a lot of racing coming up in the next two weeks and my Series 2 doesn't see Speed Channel or Verses so I may need to get a cable box (gasp) till I can get this figured out. I would welcome any input on my thoughts and if I'm missing anything. (I'm in Hawaii, so there is a hefty price to pay for shipping parts back and forth so I'd like to avoid it if at all possible)


----------



## richsadams

Welcome...sorry to hear about your "loss". See my answers below...



s2krazy said:


> Aloha everybody, I've been reading the last five or six pages of this 200 page thread and I need to post a couple of questions. First off, I'm a longtime Tivo user, from a Sony Series 1 to a Series 2 and my current Tivo HD (TCD652160). Recently, it's been experiencing freezes and stuttering which seem to indicate the hard drive is failing. My local cable provider had a series of outages yesterday and when I was power cycling the tuning adapter and the Tivo I could not get past the " welcome, starting up" screen. All I have is a black/grey screen.
> 
> So I'm thinking about repairing the tivo myself vs. buying a drive kit from DVRUpgrade or Weaknees etc. It seems as if the general consensus is that the 1 TB Hitachi Deskstar is a good choice. I already like them and I've actually got two of in my current PC. I am pretty comfortable working on the insides of these machines, I've built all of my PCs since the Pentium days.
> 
> However, I'd like to "think out loud" with everybody here to make sure I'm on the right track.
> 
> 1) if my current hard drive has indeed gone belly up, does this mean that I will be unable to pull my settings from it? Or, if after I have the hard drive out of the tivo, can I plug it into my PC and "defrag it" or otherwise work on it?


It's hard to say if you'll be able to use your TiVo's current hard drive to create an image for a new one without trying. Generally speaking if TiVo hangs at the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen it means the hard drive cannot communicate with the motherboard. That can mean that the drive itself has failed. When you power TiVo up can you hear the hard drive spin up? (You may need to put your ear to the case...or pull the cover to hear it.) If not, the drive is dead and there's not much that can be done. PC's can't "see" TiVo formatted drives, so nothing to do there. There are programs like SpinRite that can read them and make repairs, but the program is around $100, so not really worth it in this circumstance.

If the drive is spinning up but still hanging at the Welcome screen it usually means that the boot disk partition (image) has been corrupted. If the drive spins up I'd recommend you try a couple of TiVo's built-in diagnostics called "Kickstarts", specifically KS57 and failing that, KS58. That may or may not resolve the issue but it's worth a try. More here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

If that fixes things...at least allows you to boot up properly, you can use your drive to image a new one with winMFS.



s2krazy said:


> 2) if the drive is entirely unrecoverable, and I have a shiny new 1 TB drive, I'm assuming I'm going to need some kind of software on the drive to prepare it for use in the tivo. Is this WinMFS or do I need to buy InstantCake? Or is there another choice?


If you cannot use the OEM image, then yes, you'll need to get a copy of Instant Cake.



s2krazy said:


> 3) If I end up witb a new drive (and i couldn't copy the old info from the old drive), would I be correct in assuming that I may need to get Time Warner cable to roll a truck to re-pair the cable card with the tivo?


Yes, you'll essentially have a new TiVo and the cable cards will need to be bound or "re-paired".



s2krazy said:


> 4) Finally, it's not entirely lost on me that I can buy an exact copy of my current tivo for under $200. I understand that my lifetime subscription is on the ROM of my existing Tivo, having a second of the same thing would give me a whole slew of replacement parts. While this might sound silly at first, if I ended up needing a new power supply and a hard drive and InstantCake, it's getting pretty close. (Not counting the significant difference in hard drive storage)


 As you've probably gathered the hard drive is the number one failure point by a wide margin. That said, you'd need to have a listen to see if the hard drive is spinning up. Also does the exhaust fan spin? If so and since you can get to the Welcome screen the PS is probably okay. If not, it's remotely possible that the PS cannot drive the fan or the hard drive, but not likely. When the PS goes, that's usually it...nothing works.

Your call as to replacing your TiVo...plus IIRC there's a transfer fee if you want to move your LT sub to a new box.



s2krazy said:


> Anyway, there's a lot of racing coming up in the next two weeks and my Series 2 doesn't see Speed Channel or Verses so I may need to get a cable box (gasp) till I can get this figured out. I would welcome any input on my thoughts and if I'm missing anything. (I'm in Hawaii, so there is a hefty price to pay for shipping parts back and forth so I'd like to avoid it if at all possible)


I'd run the Kickstarts and see if things improve. If not, I'd plan on replacing the hard drive using winMFS and following the instruction in the FAQ carefully. Sounds like you're a pretty savvy guy so you shouldn't have any trouble.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes!

BTW, we used to live in Kailua (next to Kaneohe). Miss the weather and the beaches, but not having to fly to get to somewhere else! Okay bra, I'm all pau for now. Hope you like da kine help.


----------



## s2krazy

richsadams said:


> Generally speaking if TiVo hangs at the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen it means the hard drive cannot communicate with the motherboard. That can mean that the drive itself has failed. When you power TiVo up can you hear the hard drive spin up?


Yes the HD is spinning (hear the familiar ticks) and the PS fan is working. There is a green light on the front, but nothing else shows. Including the yellow light acknowledging a remote control button press.


> If the drive spins up I'd recommend you try a couple of TiVo's built-in diagnostics called "Kickstarts", specifically KS57 and failing that, KS58. That may or may not resolve the issue but it's worth a try.


Thanks for the link, but are all the Kickstarts only available from Tivo Central? If so, then I think that this option is out since I can't get there. Interestingly one one re-boot (out of many) I did get to the Tivo cartoon, but when I hit "live TV" it went to the spinning 'acquiring channels' (cable card) and then to the black screen. I suppose I can keep trying to re-boot the system till I can get back there. Would you say that 'kickstarts' is the Tivo equivalent of the old DOS "chkdsk"?

Also, is there anything I should do regarding re-seating the cable card or power cycling the tuning adapter? Logically I don't think this is the issue, but I'm open to any suggestions. 


> If you cannot use the OEM image, then yes, you'll need to get a copy of Instant Cake.


Got it.


> Your call as to replacing your TiVo...plus IIRC there's a transfer fee if you want to move your LT sub to a new box.


I was thinking of buying it to cannibalize it for spare parts. (ie properly formatted drive and new PS) Since the LT subscription is worth more than the hardware. 


> BTW, we used to live in Kailua (next to Kaneohe). Miss the weather and the beaches, but not having to fly to get to somewhere else! Okay bra, I'm all pau for now. Hope you like da kine help.


Brah, I tink yo pidgeon is rusty li dat.


----------



## richsadams

s2krazy said:


> Thanks for the link, but are all the Kickstarts only available from Tivo Central? If so, then I think that this option is out since I can't get there. Interestingly one one re-boot (out of many) I did get to the Tivo cartoon, but when I hit "live TV" it went to the spinning 'acquiring channels' (cable card) and then to the black screen. I suppose I can keep trying to re-boot the system till I can get back there. Would you say that 'kickstarts' is the Tivo equivalent of the old DOS "chkdsk"?
> 
> Brah, I tink yo pidgeon is rusty li dat.


The animated TiVo intro is part of the boot image, so it sounds like that is where the problem lies.

The cable cards seat just like a PCMCIA card...in the slot and snug. Not sure about the tuning adapter (forgot you had those there). I've never used one so other than connecting it, I've no idea what else you could do.

You could try removing everything, cable cards, tuning adapter, coax, etc., everything except the connection to your TV and see if it will boot up. If it does it's probably still the hard drive, but it could be something else.

The Kickstarts are all initiated before TiVo ever boots up. Read and follow the instructions for KS57 and KS58 and see how it goes.

Yep...VERY rusty.


----------



## s2krazy

richsadams said:


> The Kickstarts are all initiated before TiVo ever boots up. Read and follow the instructions for KS57 and KS58 and see how it goes.
> 
> Yep...VERY rusty.


Apparently, my ability to read is as bad as your pidgeon ;-) I see that Kickstarts can run right after you plug the unit back in. I did as instructed though I was surprised to have to hold pause for 45+ seconds and finally got to the GSOD. I ran "57" and turned the TV off and am now at work. When I get home, I'm guessing that I'll turn on the system and see if it's working. If its still on the black/gray screen I guess I'll try "58" and so on? "59" seems pretty drastic and I'm guessing it's your last resort?


----------



## richsadams

s2krazy said:


> Apparently, my ability to read is as bad as your pidgeon ;-) I see that Kickstarts can run right after you plug the unit back in. I did as instructed though I was surprised to have to hold pause for 45+ seconds and finally got to the GSOD. I ran "57" and turned the TV off and am now at work. When I get home, I'm guessing that I'll turn on the system and see if it's working. If its still on the black/gray screen I guess I'll try "58" and so on? "59" seems pretty drastic and I'm guessing it's your last resort?


I've been meaning to update that post for a while now (based on requested feedback from one of TiVo's employees that visits the TCF now and then). I revised the recommended sequence in which to run the Kickstarts:

1. Kickstart 57
2. Kickstart 54
3. Kickstart 58
4. Kickstart 52

I also updated and added a few details.

AFAIK there isn't a "KS59".  None are really drastic; IOW there isn't anything that could make things worse.

A positive note is that KS57 began running. It's no guarantee that it can repair whatever the problem is, but the fact that it started is a good sign. So yes, if things went well with KS57 your TiVo might be happily humming along when you get home. If not, you have a few more choices before throwing in the towel.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes!


----------



## s2krazy

Sorry, I was going from memory at work. I was thinking that the 'reinstall software' (52) sounded more invasive that the other 'scan and repair' tests. One thing, I use a Harmony remote to turn on and off the TV and Receiver. When I left, I used this to shut down. Hopefully, it didn't send any codes to the Tivo (I don't think it does for shut down). Anyway, crossing my fingers that it'll be working when I get home. Will keep you posted on this.


----------



## ThAbtO

Tivo doesn't 'shutdown'.


----------



## s2krazy

ThAbtO said:


> Tivo doesn't 'shutdown'.


I know but I was just commenting since I'd hate for a 'stray remote code' to interrupt my KS57 process.


----------



## cbad

Robbdoe1 said:


> Yes It will solve or should solve the soft rebbot issue on that drive...


Arrggg....it was all going so well. I did the whole upgrade and it worked beautifully. All my settings and programs were there. I did a soft reboot, but it hung so I realized I needed wdidle3.

When I try to boot the CD, it blue screens with an error:

InitDiskillegal partition table - drive 03 sector 0
illegal partition table - drive 03 sector 0

I downloaded it a couple of times and burned it more even from different computers. Same result every time.

So, I'm really happy with the upgrad, the reboot thing is annoying but I could probably live with it even though I'd rather not!

Thanks!


----------



## ThAbtO

Borg vs. Tivo: Subscriptions are irrelevant!


----------



## richsadams

cbad said:


> Arrggg....it was all going so well. I did the whole upgrade and it worked beautifully. All my settings and programs were there. I did a soft reboot, but it hung so I realized I needed wdidle3.
> 
> When I try to boot the CD, it blue screens with an error:
> 
> InitDiskillegal partition table - drive 03 sector 0
> illegal partition table - drive 03 sector 0
> 
> I downloaded it a couple of times and burned it more even from different computers. Same result every time.
> 
> So, I'm really happy with the upgrad, the reboot thing is annoying but I could probably live with it even though I'd rather not!
> 
> Thanks!


Wow, that's a new one. Hopefully someone with some experience with that can jump in here and lend a hand. 



ThAbtO said:


> Borg vs. Tivo: Subscriptions are irrelevant!


Good one Eight of Nine.


----------



## richsadams

s2krazy said:


> Sorry, I was going from memory at work. I was thinking that the 'reinstall software' (52) sounded more invasive that the other 'scan and repair' tests. One thing, I use a Harmony remote to turn on and off the TV and Receiver. When I left, I used this to shut down. Hopefully, it didn't send any codes to the Tivo (I don't think it does for shut down). Anyway, crossing my fingers that it'll be working when I get home. Will keep you posted on this.


The "stray command" warning only applies to the SMART/KS54. The only thing that can negatively impact KS57 would be to unplug the unit before it finishes.


----------



## s2krazy

Ok, KS57 didn't work. I cane home to a black screen. I just started KS54. This time I'm checking the TV periodically and it's on the GSOD.


----------



## s2krazy

KS54 started on the GSOD and then reverted to black/grey. Maybe I missed the menus since I had the TV off or maybe I need to change cables. Anyway, the system seemed to be stuck again.

I decided to try 58 instead. The system went through several 'powering on' and 'almost there' and some 'installing software updates' before settling on another black/grey. I'm not sure how long I should let it stay in this state before I move on to KS52. At this point, I'll probably just leave it overnight.


----------



## Robbdoe1

cbad said:


> Arrggg....it was all going so well. I did the whole upgrade and it worked beautifully. All my settings and programs were there. I did a soft reboot, but it hung so I realized I needed wdidle3.
> 
> When I try to boot the CD, it blue screens with an error:
> 
> InitDiskillegal partition table - drive 03 sector 0
> illegal partition table - drive 03 sector 0
> 
> I downloaded it a couple of times and burned it more even from different computers. Same result every time.
> 
> So, I'm really happy with the upgrad, the reboot thing is annoying but I could probably live with it even though I'd rather not!
> 
> Thanks!


Did you connect straight to a Sata port/ No adapter?

Robb


----------



## cbad

Robbdoe1 said:


> Did you connect straight to a Sata port/ No adapter?
> Robb


Yep, one on the motherboard. Could I have downloaded the wrong file? The iso is named fdoem.iso. Maybe I'll give it a try on another computer and see what happens.

Thanks!


----------



## Robbdoe1

cbad said:


> Yep, one on the motherboard. Could I have downloaded the wrong file? The iso is named fdoem.iso. Maybe I'll give it a try on another computer and see what happens.
> 
> Thanks!


You could have. That link was from the first post. Maybe someone can provide the current link or confirm the one in the OP is correct?

Robb


----------



## DinoBambino

cbad said:


> Yep, one on the motherboard. Could I have downloaded the wrong file? The iso is named fdoem.iso. Maybe I'll give it a try on another computer and see what happens.
> 
> Thanks!


That is the correct iso. I first burned the iso using Nero and encountered an issue. Then I burned another disk using Imgburn and worked fine.


----------



## CaseyK24

Hi,

Just bought a WD10EVDS from buy.com - it arrived and it is a pretty recent build date of Aug 2010. From what people are saying this should be good with the soft reboot I think. I will proceed with replacing the drive without the wdidle3 fix and see what happens and let the forum know the results.

ck


----------



## cbad

cbad said:


> Could I have downloaded the wrong file? The iso is named fdoem.iso. Maybe I'll give it a try on another computer and see what happens.


Turns out it was the computer, so the download from the first page is still good. I was using my music server, which has an AMD chipset. Maybe that was it. When I did it on an Intel machine, it still gave the same blue screen and message, but promptly went to the DOS prompt and allowed me to complete wdidle. Tested it, and works perfectly.

So, big thanks to Rich and Robb for never ducking a question and really helping me out. In the end, it was all so simple, but only due to the hard work already invested in this thread!

Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

s2krazy said:


> KS54 started on the GSOD and then reverted to black/grey. Maybe I missed the menus since I had the TV off or maybe I need to change cables. Anyway, the system seemed to be stuck again.
> 
> I decided to try 58 instead. The system went through several 'powering on' and 'almost there' and some 'installing software updates' before settling on another black/grey. I'm not sure how long I should let it stay in this state before I move on to KS52. At this point, I'll probably just leave it overnight.


If it went to a GSOD KS54 never started. You could try KS54 again, but if it returns to a GSOD and then when it reboots goes to a grey/black screen I think you've probably done all you can do. It sounds like the drive has too many problems (data corruption and/or bad sectors) to recover. You can give KS52 a shot, but I'm guessing it probably won't be successful.

If that's the case then it sounds like an investment in Instant Cake and a new hard drive is your next step. The good news is that it is almost certainly a hard drive issue and that the rest of your TiVo is healthy. You could replace the whole box, but a new hard drive will likely do the trick.

You shouldn't power cycle TiVo while it's running one of the Kickstarts, but if it's stuck on a black/grey screen you can safely pull the plug.

Let us know how things go.


----------



## richsadams

CaseyK24 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just bought a WD10EVDS from buy.com - it arrived and it is a pretty recent build date of Aug 2010. From what people are saying this should be good with the soft reboot I think. I will proceed with replacing the drive without the wdidle3 fix and see what happens and let the forum know the results.
> 
> ck


Thanks for that...it will be very good info to know if your drive is new enough that Intellipark won't affect a soft reboot. (BTW, can you post the drive's full manufacture date?) We'll look forward to your response. :up: TIA!


----------



## richsadams

cbad said:


> Turns out it was the computer, so the download from the first page is still good. I was using my music server, which has an AMD chipset. Maybe that was it. When I did it on an Intel machine, it still gave the same blue screen and message, but promptly went to the DOS prompt and allowed me to complete wdidle. Tested it, and works perfectly.
> 
> So, big thanks to Rich and Robb for never ducking a question and really helping me out. In the end, it was all so simple, but only due to the hard work already invested in this thread!
> 
> Thanks!


Never have liked AMD.  

Congrats and enjoy!


----------



## Robbdoe1

CaseyK24 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just bought a WD10EVDS from buy.com - it arrived and it is a pretty recent build date of Aug 2010. From what people are saying this should be good with the soft reboot I think. I will proceed with replacing the drive without the wdidle3 fix and see what happens and let the forum know the results.
> 
> ck


I got the same drive from Newegg dated 8/16/10 and I'm shooting for a weekend upgrade so let us know. I got my fingers crossed.

Robb


----------



## Robbdoe1

cbad said:


> Turns out it was the computer, so the download from the first page is still good. I was using my music server, which has an AMD chipset. Maybe that was it. When I did it on an Intel machine, it still gave the same blue screen and message, but promptly went to the DOS prompt and allowed me to complete wdidle. Tested it, and works perfectly.
> 
> So, big thanks to Rich and Robb for never ducking a question and really helping me out. In the end, it was all so simple, but only due to the hard work already invested in this thread!
> 
> Thanks!


I'm glad you got it working cause I was scratching my head. 

Robb


----------



## s2krazy

richsadams said:


> The good news is that it is almost certainly a hard drive issue and that the rest of your TiVo is healthy. You could replace the whole box, but a new hard drive will likely do the trick.


I will keep you posted. Earlier you wrote



richsadams said:


> The Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000.C HD31000 IDK/7K. It's very quiet out of the box (average of 2.4bels to 2.5bels) and the AAM can be tuned to 128 making it even quieter. (Adjusting the AAM can be done via a USB/SATA dock or adapter and is very simple..can be done any time as well.) Also runs cool.


I've found this on Amazon via BrilliantStore for $64 plus ~$10 shipping.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

Looks pretty good to me though I've never bought from that vendor. I can't see if this drive has the "intellipark" feature,but I'm still looking. I'm guessing I'm going to be down for a week while I wait for these items. I gotta call Oceanic to see if I can rent an HD box for a short while. They'll probably bill me for a whole months rental....


----------



## ThAbtO

Intellipark is mostly on Western Digital hard drives.

IMO, for $10 shipping, it better be 2-day. 

Edit: You better get your glasses fixed, I saw that page, its 64.96 + 5.89 shipping.


----------



## s2krazy

ThAbtO said:


> Intellipark is mostly on Western Digital hard drives.
> 
> IMO, for $10 shipping, it better be 2-day.
> 
> Edit: You better get your glasses fixed, I saw that page, its 64.96 + 5.89 shipping.


Not to Hawaii. Gotta love the "Paradise Surcharge" Tiger Direct charges $20 to ship the same drive here and that is NOT the expedited price.


----------



## richsadams

s2krazy said:


> I've found this on Amazon via BrilliantStore for $64 plus ~$10 shipping.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846
> 
> Looks pretty good to me though I've never bought from that vendor. I can't see if this drive has the "intellipark" feature,but I'm still looking. I'm guessing I'm going to be down for a week while I wait for these items. I gotta call Oceanic to see if I can rent an HD box for a short while. They'll probably bill me for a whole months rental....


That's the correct drive and since you're buying via Amazon you get their 30 day return policy. As ThAbtO mentioned, "Intellipark" is a Western Digital proprietary "feature" so no worries there. I have three of those Hitachi drives and they're pretty quiet out of the box, but for TiVo you'd probably want to adjust the AAM to 128 and that's quite simple...just follow the instructions on the FAQ.


----------



## s2krazy

richsadams said:


> That's the correct drive and since you're buying via Amazon you get their 30 day return policy. As ThAbtO mentioned, "Intellipark" is a Western Digital proprietary "feature" so no worries there. I have three of those Hitachi drives and they're pretty quiet out of the box, but for TiVo you'd probably want to adjust the AAM to 128 and that's quite simple...just follow the instructions on the FAQ.


I guess you're referring to return in the case that it doesn't fix the tivo? No worries there, if it didn't fix the tivo, my computer could always use another Tb... LOL. Of course I'd still be pissed that new newest Tivo was the first to fail (sheesh, the Sony Series 1 is still ticking). Anyway, ordering the drive now, thanks for the help and I'm sure I'll be back with more questions.


----------



## richsadams

s2krazy said:


> I guess you're referring to return in the case that it doesn't fix the tivo?


I was thinking if it arrives DOA or fails in the first 30 days or so...free replacement including shipping. (Otherwise there's the manufacturer's warranty of course.)

Now it's just a waiting game eh? Just don't throw the cableco DVR into the ocean when you get frustrated with it in the meantime!


----------



## s2krazy

richsadams said:


> I was thinking if it arrives DOA or fails in the first 30 days or so...free replacement including shipping. (Otherwise there's the manufacturer's warranty of course.)
> 
> Now it's just a waiting game eh? Just don't throw the cableco DVR into the ocean when you get frustrated with it in the meantime!


I guess its good to have just in case it comes like the last 1Tb drive I received. The bare drive was on the bottom of the box with no packing around it.

http://twitpic.com/86e3g

Yes, this one was DOA...


----------



## richsadams

s2krazy said:


> I guess its good to have just in case it comes like the last 1Tb drive I received. The bare drive was on the bottom of the box with no packing around it.
> 
> http://twitpic.com/86e3g
> 
> Yes, this one was DOA...


Yikes!  A lot of folks including yours truly have received drives from newegg that were very poorly packed...if at all. I was lucky because they all worked fine however. IIRC Newegg has improved their hard drive packing practices now though.

Everything I've gotten from or through Amazon has been packed quite well.


----------



## cbad

Robbdoe1 said:


> I'm glad you got it working cause I was scratching my head.


Thank you again for posting in the other thread and then sending me over here. Huge help!

Now my eyes are wide open, and even though I've been using TiVo since the '90s, I now see possibilities I never even explored.

It's all good!


----------



## warehouse

JLK62 said:


> I just added a WD My Book AV 1TB to my Tivo HD. I'm using the eSATA cable that came with it & so far so good. I'm really happy about the extra space. Those 21 hours of HD can get used up pretty easily!


I just bought one of the new Western Digital My Book AV DVR Expanders for my TIVO HD and tried to install it. My Tivo would hang and never get past the initial "powering up" screen. I went and read some reviews on Amazon where there are some statements that this drive was not compatible with the Tivo HD which kind of ticked me off since there's a big "TIVO verified" sticker on the front of the drive.

I then came to this thread and found a reference to a bad cable. I used a spare e-SATA cable and the TIVO booted OK and I was able to connect the drive but now it's rebooting randomly. I have disconnected the drive since it seems unreliable.

Has anyone else been able to get this to work and if so, were there any tricks you had to do? Should I just return this drive and order the old model?


----------



## Robbdoe1

warehouse said:


> I just bought one of the new Western Digital My Book AV DVR Expanders for my TIVO HD and tried to install it. My Tivo would hang and never get past the initial "powering up" screen. I went and read some reviews on Amazon where there are some statements that this drive was not compatible with the Tivo HD which kind of ticked my off since there's a big "TIVO verified" sticker on the front of the drive.
> 
> I then came to this thread and found a reference to a bad cable. I used a spare e-SATA cable and the TIVO booted OK and I was able to connect the drive but now it's rebooting randomly. I have disconnected the drive since it seems unreliable.
> 
> Has anyone else been able to get this to work and if so, were there any tricks you had to do? Should I just return this drive and order the old model?


A Tivo HD will only work with a WD My DVR Expander. Your best bet is to upgrade the internal drive and reduce the additional point of failure that an external drive adds.

The Tivo verified is for the original S3 which can run that drive via a backdoor that Tivo chose to leave open to those units only.

Here is the one that works:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...&cm_re=my_dvr_expander-_-22-136-384-_-Product

Robb


----------



## ThAbtO

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/index.asp?cat=16

The page above begs to differ. Its for both Series 3 & Premiere. The THD is also a Series 3.

http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/getconnected/howto_add_recording_capacity.html


----------



## richsadams

warehouse said:


> I just bought one of the new Western Digital My Book AV DVR Expanders for my TIVO HD and tried to install it. My Tivo would hang and never get past the initial "powering up" screen. I went and read some reviews on Amazon where there are some statements that this drive was not compatible with the Tivo HD which kind of ticked me off since there's a big "TIVO verified" sticker on the front of the drive.
> 
> I then came to this thread and found a reference to a bad cable. I used a spare e-SATA cable and the TIVO booted OK and I was able to connect the drive but now it's rebooting randomly. I have disconnected the drive since it seems unreliable.
> 
> Has anyone else been able to get this to work and if so, were there any tricks you had to do? Should I just return this drive and order the old model?


Yes, the WD My Book AV DVR Expander will in fact work with the TiVo HD, HDXL and Series3. There was one post on Amazon claiming theirs didn't work but it most likely a bad unit, bad cable, etc. There are a number of folks here using them successfully. If it began behaving somewhat normally when you changed the SATA cable it's quite possible that the recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable could resolve things (it's about $10):

http://www.provantage.com/siig-cb-sa0111-s1~7SISE00F.htm

That said the earlier 1TB My DVR Expanders seem to be doing fairly well as compared to the "original" 500GB My DVR Expanders which had a lifespan of about 12 to 18 months...unacceptable by most anyone's standards.

As Robb mentioned, most folks here would recommend upgrading the internal hard drive rather than having two points of potential failure. If you're comfortable connecting a hard drive to a computer (even via USB) it's a fairly easy DIY project that takes less than an hour and costs around $50 to $75 depending on the hard drive you purchase. Everything you need to know can be found on the first post of this thread.

Your call of course. Me? I think I'd return the drive and get another one just in case it's something more than the cable and while I was waiting for a replacement order one of the SIIG eSATA cables as a backup. Actually it was me once and I decided to upgrade the internal hard drive...but that's just me. 

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


----------



## richsadams

Robbdoe1 said:


> A Tivo HD will only work with a WD My DVR Expander. Your best bet is to upgrade the internal drive and reduce the additional point of failure that an external drive adds.


Actually as noted above, the newer WD My Book AV DVR Expander will work with the TiVo HD as noted by several folks here and a number of reviews on Amazon's website (and even one on newegg).

Agreed about upgrading the internal hard drive in lieu of connecting an external. :up:


----------



## Robbdoe1

richsadams said:


> Actually as noted above, the newer WD My Book AV DVR Expander will work with the TiVo HD as noted by several folks here and a number of reviews on Amazon's website (and even one on newegg).
> 
> Agreed about upgrading the internal hard drive in lieu of connecting an external. :up:


My bad guys. I never realized they infact worked on a THD. Sorry for the mis-information and thanks for setting me straight.

Robb


----------



## warehouse

richsadams said:


> Actually as noted above, the newer WD My Book AV DVR Expander will work with the TiVo HD as noted by several folks here and a number of reviews on Amazon's website (and even one on newegg).
> 
> Agreed about upgrading the internal hard drive in lieu of connecting an external. :up:


Thanks for all of the replies. I'm returning the drive since it's acting unreliable. Even if it's just the cable I don't want to risk losing all of my recordings because of a defective drive.

I'll probably just go with the new internal. I replaced the drive in my old series 2 so I'm not worried about the technical part, I was just trying to preserve the warranty, but my warranty will expire shortly anyway.


----------



## richsadams

warehouse said:


> Thanks for all of the replies. I'm returning the drive since it's acting unreliable. Even if it's just the cable I don't want to risk losing all of my recordings because of a defective drive.
> 
> I'll probably just go with the new internal. I replaced the drive in my old series 2 so I'm not worried about the technical part, I was just trying to preserve the warranty, but my warranty will expire shortly anyway.


Sounds good. With regard to the warranty, as long as you keep your original drive on the shelf (strongly recommended as a backup anyway), if something did go south you could always slip it back in for an exchange. Although TiVo can tell when a box has been modded if they want to look at their logs, there have only been a couple of cases over the years when TiVo refused to honor the warranty. (I suspect that the owner's felt an overwhelming need to confess what they had done when they called in.)

Happy upgrading!


----------



## richsadams

Robbdoe1 said:


> My bad guys. I never realized they infact worked on a THD. Sorry for the mis-information and thanks for setting me straight.
> 
> Robb


Ain't no thang!


----------



## cr33p

Just upgraded my Premiere with a 2tb EARS drive from newegg, no problems with it at all and no soft reboot issue  

Build Date: July 28 2010


----------



## richsadams

cr33p said:


> Just upgraded my Premiere with a 2tb EARS drive from newegg, no problems with it at all and no soft reboot issue
> 
> Build Date: July 28 2010


Thanks for the drive info. :up: Congrats and enjoy!


----------



## ThAbtO

cr33p said:


> Just upgraded my Premiere with a 2tb EARS drive from newegg, no problems with it at all and no soft reboot issue
> 
> Build Date: July 28 2010


So, how many HD hours do you have now?


----------



## mkkelly75

Just thought I would post that I have upgrade a second TiVo (1st was a Premiere) with a WD10EADS successfully with no reboot issues. The manufacture date on this one (strangely the same date as the 1st one I upgraded) is Sept of 2009. :up:


----------



## richsadams

mkkelly75 said:


> Just thought I would post that I have upgrade a second TiVo (1st was a Premiere) with a WD10EADS successfully with no reboot issues. The manufacture date on this one (strangely the same date as the 1st one I upgraded) is Sept of 2009. :up:


Congratulations! Without being too picky, did you happen to notice the what day in September? That can make a difference...although it looks like most drive post August 10th 2010 or so are free and clear. Seems some of the much earlier EADS series doesn't have any issues either. IIRC your other drive was Sept 20th 2009? TIA and enjoy!


----------



## Robbdoe1

Robbdoe1 said:


> I got the same drive from Newegg dated 8/16/10 and I'm shooting for a weekend upgrade so let us know. I got my fingers crossed.
> 
> Robb


I just upgraded my THD to a WD10EVDS from Newegg dated 8/16/10. No soft reboot problems and 157 glorious HD hours. 

Thanks for all the help and recommendations.:up:

Robb


----------



## richsadams

Robbdoe1 said:


> I just upgraded my THD to a WD10EVDS from Newegg dated 8/16/10. No soft reboot problems and 157 glorious HD hours.
> 
> Thanks for all the help and recommendations.:up:
> 
> Robb


Sahweet! :up:


----------



## blacknoi

I just upgraded my Tivo Series 3, purchased in September 2006. I had the stock hard drive in it and only upgraded for more space. The original drive was performing fine.

I bought a *Western Digital 1 TB AV-GP SATA OEM AV Hard Drive WD10EVDS*

from Amazon for $77.99.










I used WinMFS and did a full copy over using 2 external USB enclosures. It took about 7 hours.

When it was done, I put the drive into the Tivo to test it out. I let it sit for over 10 minutes and it never got past "Powering Up, Please Wait." So I searched out wdidle.exe and found the bootdisc iso. I hooked up the drive to my desktop computer and booted with the boot disc. I ran wdidle3 /S300 and got the confirmation.

I then put it back into my Series 3, and it booted. I did a soft boot test as well with the 3 thumbs down + enter and it rebooted successfully.

The drive was manufactured July 2010.


----------



## Robbdoe1

blacknoi said:


> I just upgraded my Tivo Series 3, purchased in September 2006. I had the stock hard drive in it and only upgraded for more space. The original drive was performing fine.
> 
> I bought a *Western Digital 1 TB AV-GP SATA OEM AV Hard Drive WD10EVDS*
> 
> from Amazon for $77.99.
> 
> I used WinMFS and did a full copy over using 2 external USB enclosures. It took about 7 hours.
> 
> When it was done, I put the drive into the Tivo to test it out. I let it sit for over 10 minutes and it never got past "Powering Up, Please Wait." So I searched out wdidle.exe and found the bootdisc iso. I hooked up the drive to my desktop computer and booted with the boot disc. I ran wdidle3 /S300 and got the confirmation.
> 
> I then put it back into my Series 3, and it booted. I did a soft boot test as well with the 3 thumbs down + enter and it rebooted successfully.
> 
> The drive was manufactured July 2010.


So it looks like August may be the key date for this drive. We had 1 successful August and 1 unsuccessful July (yours)in the last 2 days as reported here. Still waiting to here from CaseyK24 on his results. Still iffy at best. Good looking out getting it going with wdidle.

Robb


----------



## mkkelly75

richsadams said:


> Congratulations! Without being too picky, did you happen to notice the what day in September? That can make a difference...although it looks like most drive post August 10th 2010 or so are free and clear. Seems some of the much earlier EADS series doesn't have any issues either. IIRC your other drive was Sept 20th 2009? TIA and enjoy!


I believe both of mine (1 in Premiere, 1 in TiVo HD) were Sep 9 2009 Manf dates. I had a Seagate 1TB in the TiVo HD before, amazing how much quieter the WD's are.


----------



## mkkelly75

richsadams said:


> Congratulations! Without being too picky, did you happen to notice the what day in September? That can make a difference...although it looks like most drive post August 10th 2010 or so are free and clear. Seems some of the much earlier EADS series doesn't have any issues either. IIRC your other drive was Sept 20th 2009? TIA and enjoy!


Whoops, you are right, the drive I used in my Premiere did have a Sept 20 2009 manufacture date. The one I used today for the TiVo HD was Sept 9 2009.


----------



## cr33p

ThAbtO said:


> So, how many HD hours do you have now?


289 at the moment, until we figure out how to super size to 319 like DVR dudes drives are


----------



## richsadams

mkkelly75 said:


> I believe both of mine (1 in Premiere, 1 in TiVo HD) were Sep 9 2009 Manf dates. I had a Seagate 1TB in the TiVo HD before, amazing how much quieter the WD's are.


Thanks for that and enjoy! :up:


----------



## silypuddy

Need some help here...

I'm trying to upgrade by THD stock drive to a 1TB Hitachi. (I got one of the recommended list). I pulled the THD drive, fired up my Win7 box and WinMFS doesn't see my THD drive. I tried a reboot and as far as I know, the drive is up and running (I can feel it running).

I put the THD drive back into the TiVo and it's still good so I didn't mess it up (phew). Any suggestions? Does WinMFS work on a Win7 64 bit box?

Thanks in advance...


----------



## Robbdoe1

silypuddy said:


> Need some help here...
> 
> I'm trying to upgrade by THD stock drive to a 1TB Hitachi. (I got one of the recommended list). I pulled the THD drive, fired up my Win7 box and WinMFS doesn't see my THD drive. I tried a reboot and as far as I know, the drive is up and running (I can feel it running).
> 
> I put the THD drive back into the TiVo and it's still good so I didn't mess it up (phew). Any suggestions? Does WinMFS work on a Win7 64 bit box?
> 
> Thanks in advance...


WinMFS is reported to work on the following Windows Versions: 
Win XP Sp2 and Sp3, Win XP 64 Sp2, Win2003 Sp1, Win2003 64 Sp1, Vista, Vista 64

I don't know why it would not work on Windows7, But the above is from the Winmfs site.

Maybe someone who had successs using 7 can confirm it works or does not?

Restart Winmfs by right clicking and running as admin. There is also a check box to show mounted drives, try that.

Robb


----------



## dswallow

silypuddy said:


> Need some help here...
> 
> I'm trying to upgrade by THD stock drive to a 1TB Hitachi. (I got one of the recommended list). I pulled the THD drive, fired up my Win7 box and WinMFS doesn't see my THD drive. I tried a reboot and as far as I know, the drive is up and running (I can feel it running).
> 
> I put the THD drive back into the TiVo and it's still good so I didn't mess it up (phew). Any suggestions? Does WinMFS work on a Win7 64 bit box?
> 
> Thanks in advance...


It works fine on Windows 7 x64; I've used it there. Just remember to run it as administrator, otherwise you won't see your drives.


----------



## silypuddy

dswallow said:


> It works fine on Windows 7 x64; I've used it there. Just remember to run it as administrator, otherwise you won't see your drives.


Yup.. that did the trick.. I had forgotten that Win7 still had that damn Admin "feature". I thought being logged in as Admin was good enough..

Copying is happening as we speak...

BTW, I didn't have to do any sound attenuation for the Hitachi drive I picked up of Amazon, or at least I wasn't given the option by the tool...


----------



## richsadams

silypuddy said:


> BTW, I didn't have to do any sound attenuation for the Hitachi drive I picked up of Amazon, or at least I wasn't given the option by the tool...


Adjusting the AAM is a completely separate process, nothing to do with winMFS. Read the FAQ for the instructions (Section IV, #32).

Happy upgrading!


----------



## silypuddy

Yet another newbie question...

I started the copy about two hours ago and it's still running. The faq says it should take about 90 minutes to copy the settings and shows which is what I am trying to do. Should I wait, or cancel the operation and try again? I'm guessing that the drive is about 40&#37; full.

The progress bar is stuck at five and it's not showing any errors.

Thanks in advance...


----------



## richsadams

silypuddy said:


> Yet another newbie question...
> 
> I started the copy about two hours ago and it's still running. The faq says it should take about 90 minutes to copy the settings and shows which is what I am trying to do. Should I wait, or cancel the operation and try again? I'm guessing that the drive is about 40% full.
> 
> The progress bar is stuck at five and it's not showing any errors.
> 
> Thanks in advance...


If it's a simple truncated backup of the settings (guide data, season passes, cable card, etc.), that only takes a few minutes. It sounds like you're doing a full copy and restore (settings, recordings, etc.). The time it takes to do that is in direct proportion to the data on the original drive. It can take more than three hours if the drive is nearly full...probably less if not. The other deciding factor is the connection. A direct SATA connection will be much faster than using a USB/SATA adapter. The speed of your PC as well as having other programs running at the same time can have an impact too.

The "progress bar" doesn't work well. Things can be going fine and the program will appear to be stuck. The best thing to do is open task manager...right click on the task bar at the bottom of the screen (or better yet download and use Process Explorer)...and view the winMFS line. You'll probably see activity. If not you'd need to start from scratch, but it's almost certainly still running.

Another hint is to move the program's windows around each time one comes up to see if there's anything behind them. In particular the authorization screen for "Supersize" can appear behind one of the regular winMFS windows on occasion.

Have some patience and once you're done you'll be a pro! :up:


----------



## silypuddy

richsadams said:


> Adjusting the AAM is a completely separate process, nothing to do with winMFS. Read the FAQ for the instructions (Section IV, #32).
> 
> Happy upgrading!


Yup, I downloaded the tool and ran it. The AAM option was not enabled on this drive:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002D5XY8A/ref=oss_product

Do I have the wrong drive? Does it matter?


----------



## silypuddy

richsadams said:


> If it's a simple truncated backup of the settings (guide data, season passes, cable card, etc.), that only takes a few minutes. It sounds like you're doing a full copy and restore (settings, recordings, etc.). The time it takes to do that is in direct proportion to the data on the original drive. It can take more than three hours if the drive is nearly full...probably less if not. The other deciding factor is the connection. A direct SATA connection will be much faster than using a USB/SATA adapter. The speed of your PC as well as having other programs running at the same time can have an impact too.
> 
> The "progress bar" doesn't work well. Things can be going fine and the program will appear to be stuck. The best thing to do is open task manager...right click on the task bar at the bottom of the screen (or better yet download and use Process Explorer)...and view the winMFS line. You'll probably see activity. If not you'd need to start from scratch, but it's almost certainly still running.
> 
> Another hint is to move the program's windows around each time one comes up to see if there's anything behind them. In particular the authorization screen for "Supersize" can appear behind one of the regular winMFS windows on occasion.
> 
> Have some patience and once you're done you'll be a pro! :up:


Yea, I am at 2 1/2 hours right now and the process monitor is showing no activity for winMFS. I'll give it another 20 minutes and if nothing happens, just do a restore of the backup onto the new drive. I don't have to save the shows, just thought it would be nice.

As for speed of the PC, I've plugged in directly to the internal sata ports. The PC is a Core I7-930 and this is all it's doing. So it probably feels insulted doing these menial tasks...


----------



## richsadams

silypuddy said:


> Yup, I downloaded the tool and ran it. The AAM option was not enabled on this drive:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002D5XY8A/ref=oss_product
> 
> Do I have the wrong drive? Does it matter?


You s/b able to set it to 128 using hddscan or the Hitachi Feature Tool v2.11. If one doesn't work, try the other. They are very quiet drives (at least the 3 I have are) so you may be fine w/o messing with it, but JIC.



silypuddy said:


> Yea, I am at 2 1/2 hours right now and the process monitor is showing no activity for winMFS. I'll give it another 20 minutes and if nothing happens, just do a restore of the backup onto the new drive. I don't have to save the shows, just thought it would be nice.
> 
> As for speed of the PC, I've plugged in directly to the internal sata ports. The PC is a Core I7-930 and this is all it's doing. So it probably feels insulted doing these menial tasks...


Ha! Could be!  But it sounds like the copy/expand process may have hung...it happens. You s/b able to copy everything including your recordings though so I'd give that another shot.


----------



## mphtrilogy

richsadams said:


> Actually as noted above, the newer WD My Book AV DVR Expander will work with the TiVo HD as noted by several folks here and a number of reviews on Amazon's website (and even one on newegg).
> 
> Agreed about upgrading the internal hard drive in lieu of connecting an external. :up:


I can't upgrade the internal at the moment and was planning to go through with the external hard drive (1TB), which version is reocmmended? The WD Version 2.0 USB/Esata MY Book, or the older 1TB WD version with just Esata?

It looks to me the newer version might be more reliable as it has a longer warranty. This is for a TIVO HD


----------



## richsadams

mphtrilogy said:


> I can't upgrade the internal at the moment and was planning to go through with the external hard drive (1TB), which version is reocmmended? The WD Version 2.0 USB/Esata MY Book, or the older 1TB WD version with just Esata?
> 
> It looks to me the newer version might be more reliable as it has a longer warranty. This is for a TIVO HD


The newest WD My Book AV DVR Expander hasn't been out long enough to have a track record, however with the two-year warranty I would definitely go with the it rather than the older model.


----------



## CaseyK24

Robbdoe1 said:


> So it looks like August may be the key date for this drive. We had 1 successful August and 1 unsuccessful July (yours)in the last 2 days as reported here. Still waiting to here from CaseyK24 on his results. Still iffy at best. Good looking out getting it going with wdidle.
> 
> Robb


You can mark in one more successful August 24th 2010 WD10EVDS upgrade. No wdidle needed - soft reboot works fine. (Bought from Buy.com so they have the latest it seems - East coast if there are different shipping centers).

I did notice one thing about SuperSizing the drive though. When the remote restore was complete it did ask if I wanted to expand the drive - I picked "yes". It said it was set so I put back in the Tivo and I only had 141 HD hours listed. So I hooked it back up to the computer and explicitly selected Tools->MfsSuperSize->On. This explicit step worked as now I have 157 HD hours listed. So I would recommend - even if you pick yes to expand the drive - also go through the menu for the MfsSuperSize to be safe.

Casey


----------



## CaseyK24

CaseyK24 said:


> You can mark in one more successful August 24th 2010 WD10EVDS upgrade. No wdidle needed - soft reboot works fine. (Bought from Buy.com so they have the latest it seems - East coast if there are different shipping centers).
> 
> I did notice one thing about SuperSizing the drive though. When the remote restore was complete it did ask if I wanted to expand the drive - I picked "yes". It said it was set so I put back in the Tivo and I only had 141 HD hours listed. So I hooked it back up to the computer and explicitly selected Tools->MfsSuperSize->On. This explicit step worked as now I have 157 HD hours listed. So I would recommend - even if you pick yes to expand the drive - also go through the menu for the MfsSuperSize to be safe.
> 
> Casey


Also you mentioned the 1 July date didn't work but the reason I went ahead and got the WD10EVDS in the first place was because of a successful July date story in here as follows:

Originally Posted by S3-2501 View Post
A relative of mine was getting worried that her DVR expander would be failing soon, so I offered to help her upgrade her internal drive. She got a WD10EVDS from Amazon, manufactured on 7/26/10. After divorcing her expander, copying her old drive to the WD10EVDS, expanding, supersizing,etc. it booted up fine, and passed a soft menu reboot as well. Her original drive had the latest software, 11.0h


----------



## Robbdoe1

CaseyK24 said:


> You can mark in one more successful August 24th 2010 WD10EVDS upgrade. No wdidle needed - soft reboot works fine. (Bought from Buy.com so they have the latest it seems - East coast if there are different shipping centers).
> 
> I did notice one thing about SuperSizing the drive though. When the remote restore was complete it did ask if I wanted to expand the drive - I picked "yes". It said it was set so I put back in the Tivo and I only had 141 HD hours listed. So I hooked it back up to the computer and explicitly selected Tools->MfsSuperSize->On. This explicit step worked as now I have 157 HD hours listed. So I would recommend - even if you pick yes to expand the drive - also go through the menu for the MfsSuperSize to be safe.
> 
> Casey


Thanks for the feedback. Glad you are running :up:.

I think expanding the drive and supersize are 2 different things. I expanded when it asked me and before I removed the drive I supersized and had the 157 hours.

Robb


----------



## tcfcameron

What is the proper "swap" size to enter into WinMFS when using the "Broflovski" image with a 2TB hard drive?

WinMFS does not try to calculate for you, it just defaults to 128MB.

I've been using the "Take the size in GB, divide by 2, then convert to MB" calculation, which comes out to 1024MB. This is for my TiVo HDs.

This gives me 318 hours maximum of HD capacity (but I see other who are upgrading to 2TB that are saying they get 319).

I've been having problems with KickStart commands, suck as KS57 / 58, putting my TiVos into the GSOD "death loop", and I have had to re-image two, out of four TiVos because of this.

I'm using WD20EADS drives, w/IntelliPark & AAM disabled.

I have also started a new thread asking the same, as I have a feeling that the answers I hear will likely vary. I'm expecting to hear: "Leave it at the default", "That's too big, but the default is too small", and probably a whole slew of opinions and personal experiences. I welcome any input that may lead to a consensus on the correct size.

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=456053


----------



## cr33p

I have never changed it on any machine I own or sold, including the brolovski image


----------



## tcfcameron

cr33p said:


> I have never changed it on any machine I own or sold, including the brolovski image


A year ago, when mine were still stock, I got the GSOD "death loop" on two within days of each other.

I spent a week researching, and the most consistent information I could come up with, at that time, was that:

1. I couldn't actually recover from the situation (without buying Instant Cake, and also losing all data).

2. That TiVo used too small of a swap file/partition, which caused the TiVo to run out of memory, so it couldn't repair some data integrity problems, and thus would wind up in the GSOD loop.

I really haven't seen anything since then that contradicts these two points, except that if you keep an image backup around, IC becomes irrelevant.


----------



## TiVo Bob W

> IV. Unsupported External Drives (also known as "Non-Verified" drives)
> 
> 18. Can I upgrade the built-in hard drive with a larger model without affecting my eSATA drive?
> 
> You can do that with the MFSLive bootCD if you are still using the original, factory-installed TiVo drive. You cannot do this if the internal drive was previously upgraded. Note this capability is not yet supported in WinMFS, but it could be added in a future version. Credit to spike2k5 for this answer.


After many failed attempts and getting nowhere over on MFSLive.org I am requesting that the above be removed from the FAQ. I have tried multiple ways to accomplish the above and have yet find anyone that has succeeded.

Thanks, Bob

PS - If spike2k5 would like to chime in I'm listening...


----------



## richsadams

TiVo Bob W said:


> After many failed attempts and getting nowhere over on MFSLive.org I am requesting that the above be removed from the FAQ. I have tried multiple ways to accomplish the above and have yet find anyone that has succeeded.
> 
> Thanks, Bob
> 
> PS - If spike2k5 would like to chime in I'm listening...


That sounds frustrating. I haven't ever tried it but IIRC some folks did that successfully however it's been a long time since I read about anyone trying it.

So based on your signature you have an un-modded/stock TiVo Series3 and a "non-approved" eSATA drive connected to it correct? If non-approved, did you use Kickstart 62 to connect the eSATA drive or did you connect it after the TiVo update that allowed plug and play expansion?

The reason I ask is that I think when Spike wrote those instructions...brought over by bkdtv, it applied to stock TiVo hard drives (in the case of the Series3 a 250GB drive) and an "unapproved" eSATA drive, something other than the P&P My DVR Expanders. It's my understanding (and I could easily be wrong, but this sticks in my memory for some reason) that any other configuration would not work as the directions suggest.


----------



## blacknoi

silypuddy said:


> Yea, I am at 2 1/2 hours right now and the process monitor is showing no activity for winMFS. I'll give it another 20 minutes and if nothing happens, just do a restore of the backup onto the new drive. I don't have to save the shows, just thought it would be nice.
> 
> As for speed of the PC, I've plugged in directly to the internal sata ports. The PC is a Core I7-930 and this is all it's doing. So it probably feels insulted doing these menial tasks...


Just to chime in here, when I was copying my 250GB stock S3 hard drive over to the new 1TB WD drive, it took 7 hours! This was with me forgetting to clear out all the suggestions first as well as the recently deleted folder.

So essentially, using 2 external USB sata enclosures, copying a full 250GB stock tivo drive takes that long. WinMFS about every 20-25 minutes would give an updated ETA of the time left, but with about 3 hours left, it just went wonky and said something like several THOUSAND hours were left. It still ended in the timeframe that the last accurate "time left" meter had reported.

The actual progress bar continued to move across the screen slowly, never freezing...although sometimes it took up to 30 minutes to get another "bar" to show up on the screen.


----------



## silypuddy

blacknoi said:


> Just to chime in here, when I was copying my 250GB stock S3 hard drive over to the new 1TB WD drive, it took 7 hours! This was with me forgetting to clear out all the suggestions first as well as the recently deleted folder.
> 
> So essentially, using 2 external USB sata enclosures, copying a full 250GB stock tivo drive takes that long. WinMFS about every 20-25 minutes would give an updated ETA of the time left, but with about 3 hours left, it just went wonky and said something like several THOUSAND hours were left. It still ended in the timeframe that the last accurate "time left" meter had reported.
> 
> The actual progress bar continued to move across the screen slowly, never freezing...although sometimes it took up to 30 minutes to get another "bar" to show up on the screen.


I ended up just doing a restore onto the 1tb drive. I was just trying to save the kid's shows.. which they can live without.. 

Funny thing though, when I looked at the NPL, it had the copied shows. I just deleted them to be safe. Box has been running well.. but I can hear the drive.. debating if I should fix that...

Now I have a much bigger problem... and that's TiVo related. They changed my channel lineup... problem is that my channels didn't change so ALL my season passes are DOA until they roll back the change. I called it in and was told the standard 3-5 business days. I told him he needs to escalate as all of Minneapolis/St. Paul is affected and no-body's season pass will work.

Let's see if they listen....


----------



## TiVo Bob W

richsadams said:


> So based on your signature you have an un-modded/stock TiVo Series3 and a "non-approved" eSATA drive connected to it correct? If non-approved, did you use Kickstart 62 to connect the eSATA drive or did you connect it after the TiVo update that allowed plug and play expansion?


eSATA drive was connect through P & P after TiVo allowed other eDrives. I thought I had researched this enough before I purchased the new drives. I guess not.

Bob


----------



## richsadams

TiVo Bob W said:


> eSATA drive was connect through P & P after TiVo allowed other eDrives. I thought I had researched this enough before I purchased the new drives. I guess not.
> 
> Bob


I can see how that could happen very easily. I agree there needs to be some additional clarification.


----------



## wisny

Is there a place where backups for dummies FAQ might be located? 

I'm a new TiVo owner, backups of image files and season passes seems like a good idea, but I haven't stumbled across directions for beginners. Just references to how to backup as part of an upgrade. 

Can someone point me in the direction of a backup FAQ for newbies (not part of upgrading)?


Also, I wish this sticky was an actual forum! So much great info in here, but at over 6k posts, it's not easy to just read through. It'd be so awesome if the sticky was a forum with threads for searching. :up:


----------



## richsadams

wisny said:


> Is there a place where backups for dummies FAQ might be located?
> 
> I'm a new TiVo owner, backups of image files and season passes seems like a good idea, but I haven't stumbled across directions for beginners. Just references to how to backup as part of an upgrade.
> 
> Can someone point me in the direction of a backup FAQ for newbies (not part of upgrading)?
> 
> Also, I wish this sticky was an actual forum! So much great info in here, but at over 6k posts, it's not easy to just read through. It'd be so awesome if the sticky was a forum with threads for searching. :up:


Welcome! Without pulling the hard drive out of TiVo and connecting it to a computer there isn't a way to backup the image file.

You can "preserve" your Season Passes by signing up for TiVo's Guru Guides or KidZone. Should you replace/upgrade your hard drive they will be repopulated when TiVo connects to the "Mother Ship". More here:

http://www.tivo.com/findtvshows/guides/

BTW this is the forum for discussions about upgrades and expansions, hence the high number of posts. If you're interested in upgrading, everything you need to know is in the very first post. Everything else is simply discussions about details so there's no real need to slog through them all&#8230;certainly some are way outdated by now. If you run into any issues or have further questions just ask. There are a lot of great folks here willing to lend a hand anytime.

FWIW you can use the Search feature in the Forum's toolbar above to do a global search or click on "Search this thread" at the top of any thread to look for something specific within that thread.

Enjoy your new TiVo!


----------



## wisny

richsadams said:


> Welcome! Without pulling the hard drive out of TiVo and connecting it to a computer there isn't a way to backup the image file.
> 
> ...


Ahhhh! No wonder there's no backups for dummies FAQ then! I did see the instructions that included pulling the drive out, I didn't realize that was the only way.

Thankyou for all the rest of the info too. :up:


----------



## richsadams

The popular 1TB WD10EARS is on sale at Dell for $54.99 w/free shipping&#8230;

http://dell.to/aHn6sF

FWIW the 2TB model is also on sale for $94.99 w/free shipping&#8230;

http://dell.to/bmW3pA


----------



## ThAbtO

Will the WD Caviar Blue work?


----------



## richsadams

ThAbtO said:


> Will the WD Caviar Blue work?


It will work, but unless you already own it there wouldn't really be any advantage (at least in a TiVo application) over the WD GP drive. If this is the one you're talking about it's a 7200 RPM drive that runs a bit hotter and is noisier than the WD GP drives&#8230;costs more than the one on sale at Dell too. The only advantage _might_ be that it doesn't have the Intellipark feature so there'd be no need to tweak it. I say "might" because the newer WD GP drives (post August 1 or so) no longer have to have the Intellipark feature tweaked.


----------



## scottopus

richsadams said:


> The popular 1TB WD10EARS is on sale at Dell for $54.99 w/free shipping


The WD10EARS isn't on your recommended list on the first page. Will this drive work for my TivoHD?


----------



## richsadams

scottopus said:


> The WD10EARS isn't on your recommended list on the first page. Will this drive work for my TivoHD?


Yes, a lot of folks are using it successfully here. The reason the WD GP drives aren't currently listed on the FAQ is due to a manufacturing issue wherein the drive's proprietary Intellipark feature caused TiVo to hang at the "Welcome! Powering up&#8230;" screen during a soft reboot (either a menu restart or after a TiVo update). If you read the FAQ you'll note that the drives needed to have Intellipark timeout extended or disabled to avoid the problem, otherwise they worked normally.

More recently manufactured WD GP drives including the WD10EARS no longer require the Intellipark adjustment to be made; generally it appears those drives manufactured after the first week in August this year or so. That said, it's difficult to say what the drive's manufacture date might be if ordered from Dell or anywhere else. Until all of the older WD GP drives (that required the adjustment) are flushed through the system they shouldn't be included in the recommended drive list.

The adjustment isn't difficult to do but does require a direct SATA connection (either on the computer's motherboard or using a SATA PCI card) as it won't work with a USB/SATA adapter or dock. More info about that is included in the FAQ.

So long story longer, it's a roll of the dice finding out if the drive would need a little extra work to avoid the soft reboot issue or not. Otherwise, they work fine for TiVo upgrades.

For anyone not wanting to wait or fool around with the possible Intellipark adjustment, the Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000.C HD31000 IDK/7K is a good alternative:

http://bit.ly/5QD8FS


----------



## ehardman

richsadams said:


> More recently manufactured WD GP drives including the WD10EARS no longer require the Intellipark adjustment to be made; generally it appears those drives manufactured after the first week in August this year or so. That said, it's difficult to say what the drive's manufacture date might be if ordered from Dell or anywhere else. Until all of the older WD GP drives (that required the adjustment) are flushed through the system they shouldn't be included in the recommended drive list.
> http://bit.ly/5QD8FS


If I order the WD10EARS is the manufacture date shown somewhere on the drive so I could return it if it is part of the older batch?


----------



## ThreeSoFar

I've always used the Linux command line versions of the MFS tools.

Will I be able to create a backup image for an TCD652160 (HD TiVo)? It's the original drive, never booted.

I'm trying one now, but my notes from last time say the backup always fails at 86% or so, which is where the file reaches 2GB.

Command:

backup -6so TCD652160.bak -f9999 /dev/sda


CONFIRMED: Still doing this today. Using:
MFSLive 1.4
Kernel: 2.6.282Mfslive.org
file size at error: 2147483647 (exactly one byte over 2G)

Happens at 86%, at 3007 of 3463MB.


----------



## ThAbtO

ThreeSoFar said:


> I've always used the Linux command line versions of the MFS tools.
> 
> Will I be able to create a backup image for an TCD652160 (HD TiVo)? It's the original drive, never booted.
> 
> I'm trying one now, but my notes from last time say the backup always fails at 86% or so, which is where the file reaches 2GB.
> 
> Command:
> 
> backup -6so TCD652160.bak -f9999 /dev/sda
> 
> 
> CONFIRMED: Still doing this today. Using:
> MFSLive 1.4
> Kernel: 2.6.282Mfslive.org
> file size at error: 2147483647 (exactly one byte over 2G)
> 
> Happens at 86%, at 3007 of 3463MB.


I used WinMFS to make a backup of THD, tcd652, and the size was 440 megs, with only 1 show left in the recently deleted folder, original drive, and ver 11.0h. Plus, I burned the backup onto a CD, if anything happens to the drive, I still got a backup. Time it took to backup, for me that is, was just about 1 min.

Do you have alot of recordings on that Tivo drive? Does 'Never booted' means you have a brand new box?


----------



## richsadams

ehardman said:


> If I order the WD10EARS is the manufacture date shown somewhere on the drive so I could return it if it is part of the older batch?












I think you'd need a better excuse for returning it than "It's from an older batch" though. Most suppliers charge a restocking fee (around 15%) unless a drive is DOA.

IIRC some folks have been finding fairly new drives at Best Buy and Fry's so it might be worth a look locally. You could probably open the box and read the date through the anti-static envelope.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

ThAbtO said:


> I used WinMFS to make a backup of THD, tcd652, and the size was 440 megs, with only 1 show left in the recently deleted folder, original drive, and ver 11.0h. Plus, I burned the backup onto a CD, if anything happens to the drive, I still got a backup. Time it took to backup, for me that is, was just about 1 min.
> 
> Do you have alot of recordings on that Tivo drive? Does 'Never booted' means you have a brand new box?


I removed it before powering it up the first time, used it to make my 1TB drive via backup ... | restore. It should be the pristine factory build on there.

I tried again with -f 8888 and the initial MB count was the same 3463, so I aborted that one. WIthout the -f option entirely, it works fine and finishes at about 500M. I'm trying -f6888 now and the MB count looks low enough that it should be below that 2G mark.

Is there some 2G cutoff for file sizes with this mfslive CD?


----------



## ehardman

richsadams said:


> I think you'd need a better excuse for returning it than "It's from an older batch" though. Most suppliers charge a restocking fee (around 15%) unless a drive is DOA.
> 
> IIRC some folks have been finding fairly new drives at Best Buy and Fry's so it might be worth a look locally. You could probably open the box and read the date through the anti-static envelope.


No Fry's or BB locally so I think I will order from Amazon since their return policy is very liberal. $59.99 and free shipping since I have Prime.


----------



## richsadams

ehardman said:


> No Fry's or BB locally so I think I will order from Amazon since their return policy is very liberal. $59.99 and free shipping since I have Prime.


Sounds good. Let us know what turns up!


----------



## Mike Wolf

richsadams said:


> It will work, but unless you already own it there wouldn't really be any advantage (at least in a TiVo application) over the WD GP drive. If this is the one you're talking about it's a 7200 RPM drive that runs a bit hotter and is noisier than the WD GP drivescosts more than the one on sale at Dell too. The only advantage _might_ be that it doesn't have the Intellipark feature so there'd be no need to tweak it. I say "might" because the newer WD GP drives (post August 1 or so) no longer have to have the Intellipark feature tweaked.


Don't know why people are looking at non AV hard drives in the first place, I'd think common sense would be to use a drive thats specifically made for DVR usage. http://www.wdc.com/en/products/index.asp?cat=7


----------



## LoST57

Just ordered and received a WD10EVDS from Amazon fro my TivoHD. Manufacture date is April 26 2010. I assume I will have to run widdle?


----------



## richsadams

LoST57 said:


> Just ordered and received a WD10EVDS from Amazon fro my TivoHD. Manufacture date is April 26 2010. I assume I will have to run widdle?


Probablybut you never know. Might be worth trying w/o it and see what happens. I know it's a big ask and another step if it doesn't work, but for purely selfish reasons I for one would like to knowplus the additional data point will be beneficial to those that follow. But if you don't want to help your fellow TCF membersthat's okaydon't worry about uswe'll be fine.


----------



## richsadams

Mike Wolf said:


> Don't know why people are looking at non AV hard drives in the first place, I'd think common sense would be to use a drive thats specifically made for DVR usage. http://www.wdc.com/en/products/index.asp?cat=7


As explained earlier most folks are successfully using non-AV, low RPM hard drives simply because TiVo can't take advantage of a majority of the AV dedicated features the manufacturers build inand AV drives cost moreabout 20 to 30% more depending on the drive.

After years of upgrading TiVo's with both types there's no empirical evidence one is better than the other, other than acousticsthe AV dedicated drives are delivered with the AAM set to 128. A few minutes work using a simple program will allow anyone to adjust the acoustics on a "stock" drive (from most manufacturers with the exception of Seagate) to the same.

Ease of use? Agreed, pay some more, get an A/V dedicated drive and there's one less step in the upgrade process. :up:


----------



## Mike Wolf

richsadams said:


> As explained earlier most folks are successfully using non-AV, low RPM hard drives simply because TiVo can't take advantage of a majority of the AV dedicated features the manufacturers build inand AV drives cost moreabout 20 to 30% more depending on the drive.
> 
> After years of upgrading TiVo's with both types there's no empirical evidence one is better than the other, other than acousticsthe AV dedicated drives are delivered with the AAM set to 128. A few minutes work using a simple program will allow anyone to adjust the acoustics on a "stock" drive (from most manufacturers with the exception of Seagate) to the same.
> 
> Ease of use? Agreed, pay some more, get an A/V dedicated drive and there's one less step in the upgrade process. :up:


What do you mean TiVo can't take advantage of the AV features? What features, and why not?


----------



## dswallow

Mike Wolf said:


> What do you mean TiVo can't take advantage of the AV features? What features, and why not?


AV-specific features in the firmware allow such things as reads without error recovery; since a given read is known to be video data, it's more important to not hold up the read than it is to try to re-read the data over and over to get a good read (if it ever happens).

TiVo simply does not need or utilize any of these extra features that exist in AV drive firmware.

Though frankly it'd be nice if they could use it if it existed; it's certainly more user-friendly to see some garbled data now and then as a hard drive fails than it is to watch the TiVo lock up and reboot.


----------



## MPSAN

dswallow said:


> TiVo simply does not need or utilize any of these extra features that exist in AV drive firmware.
> 
> Though frankly it'd be nice if they could use it if it existed; it's certainly more user-friendly to see some garbled data now and then as a hard drive fails than it is to watch the TiVo lock up and reboot.


That, of course is a shame. The problem is, of course, that the drive can indicate an error, but it is up to the host software (windows, Linux, TIVO, or IBM MVS) to decide what to do about the "error". In the case of Computer data like your checking account data, it better be correct. However, the problem with TIVO is that it is OK to just skip a bad sector while playing a show that was recorded. Heck, you would think it is the cable company anyway  ! But the lockup is NOT OK. I am surprised that TiVo did not make its OS better than that! It is too bad that TIVO did not include software (a KS XX) that could be run to copy the "bad" show to another location without the bad sector and then have a hidden directory of bad sectors. That way, that sector(s) would never be used again. They could even have a KS to scan the whole drive and mark bad sectors. I bet a whole lot of TiVo's would be saved that way! How many times have we seen people come here to replace their HDD because all is OK except if they try to play a show they had recorded (or is that taped)  everything would freeze!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> It is too bad that TIVO did not include software (a KS XX) that could be run to copy the "bad" show to another location without the bad sector and then have a hidden directory of bad sectors. That way, that sector(s) would never be used again. They could even have a KS to scan the whole drive and mark bad sectors.


Actually if I'm reading what you're suggesting right (and it's been a long week, so some slack may be in order) Kickstart 57/MFS assert does in fact mark and isolate bad sectors along with its other tasks. It would be great if it handled the other things you suggest though.

Enjoying the sun?


----------



## Robbdoe1

Mike Wolf said:


> Does anyone actually know the exact hard drive used in the TiVo S3/HD and S3/HD XL? By which I mean model number and brand?


I have deleted my original response since Rich has done a far better job then I could have here:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455680

Robb


----------



## richsadams

Mike Wolf said:


> Does anyone actually know the exact hard drive used in the TiVo S3/HD and S3/HD XL? By which I mean model number and brand?


These were all within minutes of each other:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8151646#post8151646

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8151643#post8151643

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8151626#post8151626

Cross posting - posting the same questions on multiple threads is frowned upon by the TCF Moderators and is just bad form. I and others took the time to answer your posts, but in the future it's best to post once, wait for an answer. New folks get a pass.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Actually if I'm reading what you're suggesting right (and it's been a long week, so some slack may be in order) Kickstart 57/MFS assert does in fact mark and isolate bad sectors along with its other tasks. It would be great if it handled the other things you suggest though.
> 
> Enjoying the sun?


Well, we just got back from Westfir/Oakridge and Silverton. I tell you, besides the darn rain it was scary in Oakridge before they shot that guy...near where we were staying in our RV, too! Police were all over!!

P.S. There are so many levels that could be done in the TIVO OS.


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Well, we just got back from Westfir/Oakridge and Silverton. I tell you, besides the darn rain it was scary in Oakridge before they shot that guy...near where we were staying in our RV, too! Police were all over!!
> 
> P.S. There are so many levels that could be done in the TIVO OS.


Yikes! And agreedI mean about TiVonot shooting people that is.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Yikes! And agreed&#8230;I mean about TiVo&#8230;not shooting people that is.


So I guess this was on the Portland news!

Anyway, I guess it is time for my next 90 day free HBO/Cinemax. It is there now!


----------



## Mike Wolf

richsadams said:


> Cross posting - posting the same questions on multiple threads is frowned upon by the TCF Moderators and is just bad form. I and others took the time to answer your posts, but in the future it's best to post once, wait for an answer. New folks get a pass.


Thank you for talking down to me >.> As I mentioned to you in another thread, if you have an issue with me please address it to me in a private message and not on the forum. Just because I'm new on the forum does not mean I do not have credible information to share, and years of experience in my field.


----------



## richsadams

Mike Wolf said:


> Thank you for talking down to me >.> As I mentioned to you in another thread, if you have an issue with me please address it to me in a private message and not on the forum. Just because I'm new on the forum does not mean I do not have credible information to share, and years of experience in my field.


I'm not sure what experience or field you're speaking about but it's clearly not with TiVo or participating in forums. That's not a bad thing everyone here was new once. However this is a public forum. If you post publicly it's almost a given that responses to your posts will be public as wellkind of goes with the territory and how these things work.


----------



## Mike Wolf

richsadams said:


> I'm not sure what experience or field you're speaking about but it's clearly not with TiVo or participating in forums. That's not a bad thing everyone here was new once. However this is a public forum. If you post publicly it's almost a given that responses to your posts will be public as wellkind of goes with the territory and how these things work.


Again with the talking down, do you not have tact? I don't want this to become a hassle for me. I have better things to do.  Why dont we just ignore each other's posts and carry on with our lives.


----------



## LoST57

richsadams said:


> Probablybut you never know. Might be worth trying w/o it and see what happens. I know it's a big ask and another step if it doesn't work, but for purely selfish reasons I for one would like to knowplus the additional data point will be beneficial to those that follow. But if you don't want to help your fellow TCF membersthat's okaydon't worry about uswe'll be fine.


Good points, I will give it a shot without widdle and see how it goes, you made me feel bad  Hopefully I'll have a full report tonight or tomorrow!  I really need this extra recording space for my vacation


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Mike Wolf said:


> Again with the talking down, do you not have tact? I don't want this to become a hassle for me. I have better things to do.  Why dont we just ignore each other's posts and carry on with our lives.


Rich is right. And Rich is being very nice, tactful, and diplomatic in addressing you.

Mike is new. Mike acts a bit like the drunk idiots I see walking back and forth to their cars at 2am. Mike is young (ETA: This is an assumption) and my guess is he's rude and disrespectful.

Mike will learn lessons in life, Rich already has. Respect your elders, son.

And no, you don't have anything better to do. How would you be so busy here if you did?

* PS: Now *THAT* was talking down, son.


----------



## hummingbird_206

richsadams said:


> I'm not sure what experience or field you're speaking about but it's clearly not with TiVo or participating in forums. That's not a bad thing everyone here was new once. However this is a public forum. If you post publicly it's almost a given that responses to your posts will be public as wellkind of goes with the territory and how these things work.


Rich, you're great. Not only do you provide great advice on keeping our TiVo's working, but you school the newbies on forum etiquette. Awesome! It's such a pleasure to participate in the forum with you!



ThreeSoFar said:


> Rich is right. And Rich is being very nice, tactful, and diplomatic in addressing you.
> 
> Mike is new. Mike acts a bit like the drunk idiots I see walking back and forth to their cars at 2am. Mike is young (ETA: This is an assumption) and my guess is he's rude and disrespectful.
> 
> Mike will learn lessons in life, Rich already has. Respect your elders, son.
> 
> And no, you don't have anything better to do. How would you be so busy here if you did?
> 
> * PS: Now *THAT* was talking down, son.


lol, love it!:up:


----------



## richsadams

Mike Wolf said:


> I have better things to do.


Good to know. Do us all a favor and do them.


----------



## richsadams

LoST57 said:


> Good points, I will give it a shot without widdle and see how it goes, you made me feel bad  Hopefully I'll have a full report tonight or tomorrow!  I really need this extra recording space for my vacation


Kidding of course. We'll all look forward to hearing how things go. Happy upgrading!


----------



## bowlingblogger

ThreeSoFar said:


> Rich is right. And Rich is being very nice, tactful, and diplomatic in addressing you.
> 
> Mike is new. Mike acts a bit like the drunk idiots I see walking back and forth to their cars at 2am. Mike is young (ETA: This is an assumption) and my guess is he's rude and disrespectful.
> 
> Mike will learn lessons in life, Rich already has. Respect your elders, son.
> 
> And no, you don't have anything better to do. How would you be so busy here if you did?
> 
> * PS: Now *THAT* was talking down, son.


:up: +2


----------



## Mike Wolf

richsadams said:


> Good to know. Do us all a favor and do them.


I do, but I seem to have extra time to hang out here too; 


ThreeSoFar said:


> Rich is right. And Rich is being very nice, tactful, and diplomatic in addressing you.
> 
> Mike is new. Mike acts a bit like the drunk idiots I see walking back and forth to their cars at 2am. Mike is young (ETA: This is an assumption) and my guess is he's rude and disrespectful.
> 
> Mike will learn lessons in life, Rich already has. Respect your elders, son.
> 
> And no, you don't have anything better to do. How would you be so busy here if you did?
> 
> * PS: Now *THAT* was talking down, son.


If you think that was a talking down to perhaps you should check the definition, sir. I respect your opinion on this matter, although it doesn't concern you, and its just that, a bias opinion about your friend and not fact. Anyway your right, I'm a bit new to the forum, thats fine, but although I'm younger then the majority of you doesn't mean that I'm the pain in the neck who drives down the street at 2am with the noisy sportscars. I think we all just got off on the wrong foot and I'd like to start over. 


hummingbird_206 said:


> Rich, you're great. Not only do you provide great advice on keeping our TiVo's working, but you school the newbies on forum etiquette. Awesome! It's such a pleasure to participate in the forum with you!
> 
> lol, love it!:up:


I respect your opinion, although I disagree with it. 

I've been a chatroom and forum moderator for a rather long time, and it doesn't bother me that some people disagree with me. I know that I'm better, and thats all that matters. As I said before I consider this matter closed, and I feel this is hardly the time nor place to discuss it.


----------



## richsadams

Okay guys&#8230;that's it. Don't feed the troll.


----------



## LoST57

Keep it down I'm trying to do an upgrade here...


----------



## richsadams

LoST57 said:


> Keep it down I'm trying to do an upgrade here...


It'll be nice and quiet on my side of the fence now.


----------



## LoST57

richsadams said:


> It'll be nice and quiet on my side of the fence now.


WD10EVDS manufacture date April 26 2010 HANGS on soft reboot  widdle time


----------



## richsadams

LoST57 said:


> WD10EVDS manufacture date April 26 2010 HANGS on soft reboot  widdle time


Ugh. Not unexpected I supposed but sorry to hear that. Wellat least you know how to resolve it. Some folks just live with it and plan on power cycling their TiVo's whenever an update is pushed out (3 or 4 times a year)seems reasonable unless you happen to be on vacation at the time or whatever. Your call of course.

But hey, thanks very much for giving it a try. That was going above and beyond and it's much appreciated! :up:


----------



## ehardman

CaseyK24 said:


> You can mark in one more successful August 24th 2010 WD10EVDS upgrade. Casey


Where did you get your drive with the Aug. 24 date?

Does anyone else know who is shipping WD10EVDS drives with dates that don't have to run wdidle?


----------



## LoST57

When using wdidle3 with WD10EVDS I tried setting to 300 but says 255 is max, should I do 255 or just disable it?

EDIT: I left it at 255 and no reboot problem, so I am going to leave it.


----------



## richsadams

LoST57 said:


> When using wdidle3 with WD10EVDS I tried setting to 300 but says 255 is max, should I do 255 or just disable it?
> 
> EDIT: I left it at 255 and no reboot problem, so I am going to leave it.


Good info. :up: I'd just disable it, but IIRC more recently manufactured drives only allowed the timeout to be extended for some reason.

In any case, glad to hear things are good and enjoy!


----------



## LoST57

richsadams said:


> Good info. :up: I'd just disable it, but IIRC more recently manufactured drives only allowed the timeout to be extended for some reason.
> 
> In any case, glad to hear things are good and enjoy!


I'll leave it for now, and see if I see any problems, thanks for your help and anyone else that contributed to this thread. Overall I'd say it was a very easy upgrade process (my first Tivo upgrade). Now shows won't be deleted when I go on my 2 week vacation! YAY


----------



## richsadams

LoST57 said:


> I'll leave it for now, and see if I see any problems, thanks for your help and anyone else that contributed to this thread. Overall I'd say it was a very easy upgrade process (my first Tivo upgrade). Now shows won't be deleted when I go on my 2 week vacation! YAY


Absolutely leave it. I just meant to say that if _I_ had the option _I_ would probably disable it&#8230;not meaning that you should go back in and do anything. If it booted up from a soft reboot once there's zero reason to believe that it will be any different in the future. Apologies for the confusion and enjoy&#8230;your "new" TiVo _and_ your vacation!


----------



## ddorbuck

Hey guys a few questions. My series3 tivo's drive seems to be going. I replaced the stock drive over 3 years ago and the 750 gig I picked up has worked fine until recently. I want to replace it with a 1 tb WD10EVDS which I see others have used here after using the wdidle3 mods. The last time I did the swap on my tivo I used the linux based MFSLive. This time I have a extra pc with vista 64 on it. Would it be faster or better to use WinMFS this time? Since I do these upgrades so in-frequently I would appreciate any input.

My other question is more of a fact finder, when a drive is going on the tivo is it common to have playback of recorded shows just prematurely end (i.e stop and give the notice to save or delete it).

Thanks. Doug D


----------



## richsadams

ddorbuck said:


> Hey guys a few questions. My series3 tivo's drive seems to be going. I replaced the stock drive over 3 years ago and the 750 gig I picked up has worked fine until recently. I want to replace it with a 1 tb WD10EVDS which I see others have used here after using the wdidle3 mods. The last time I did the swap on my tivo I used the linux based MFSLive. This time I have a extra pc with vista 64 on it. Would it be faster or better to use WinMFS this time? Since I do these upgrades so in-frequently I would appreciate any input.
> 
> My other question is more of a fact finder, when a drive is going on the tivo is it common to have playback of recorded shows just prematurely end (i.e stop and give the notice to save or delete it).
> 
> Thanks. Doug D


Hi Doug&#8230;sorry to hear that your TiVo is misbehaving&#8230;it happens. IMHO winMFS is a no brainer, especially since you've already upgraded once. It's really a piece of cake as long as you carefully follow the directions on the FAQ. BTW, there's a good chance that if your WD10EVDS was manufactured fairly recently you may not have to use wdidle3.exe to modify the Intellipark feature. IIRC someone posted that they had one manufactured in early July, that they didn't run the program and that the drive booted up from a menu restart w/o any problems.

AFAIK no one has experienced recordings ending prematurely, at least with respect to a failing hard drive. Did the recordings in question show a full 30, 60 minutes or whatever? The only thing I can think of is that TiVo possibly rebooted during the recording. However it would have had to reboot near the end as normally it would pick up where it left off&#8230;splitting the recording into two segments (or possibly more if it continued to reboot).  Is that the only symptom? It certainly could be a failing hard drive, but it could be something else as well.


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## ddorbuck

Rich, Thanks for your response. My tivo started acting up a week ago with the dreaded grey screen on my comcast dual cable card setup. In the past I have had many interesting talks with the comcast folks including some senior tech's about comcast and tivo. I'm going to go out on a limb and say my comcast cable feed is ok to my card (well at least it is today). What I noted the other night was live tv was jumpy with a few seconds of freezing video then it would catch up. Last night we tried watching some recordings from the past monday through thursday of this week of a few tv shows like the csi's ,etc and they would start and some of them would go 15-30 minutes in then it would show a glitch and stop with the standard end of programing tivo message to delete it, save it, etc. Today I pulled the tivo drive out and ran spinrite on it. Spinrite reported a few recovered sectors. After letting spinrite chew on it for about 4 hours I stopped it and returned the drive to the tivo since my family is on their way home and my sunday window of opportunity is closing ;>/ Since spinrite found a few bad sectors I just don't have faith in that drive. I may be just experiencing typical comcast issues this past week with the ruined recordings and interesting live tv artifacts but as of today the signal playback on my tivo seems fine. I wish tivo had some live checkdisk type of utilities that you could run from a maintenance menu to verify the disk while in the unit. Anyway hopefully everything will work out and I should have that new drive in a few days. Thanks for your post. Doug D in CT.


----------



## richsadams

ddorbuck said:


> Rich, Thanks for your response. My tivo started acting up a week ago with the dreaded grey screen on my comcast dual cable card setup. In the past I have had many interesting talks with the comcast folks including some senior tech's about comcast and tivo. I'm going to go out on a limb and say my comcast cable feed is ok to my card (well at least it is today). What I noted the other night was live tv was jumpy with a few seconds of freezing video then it would catch up. Last night we tried watching some recordings from the past monday through thursday of this week of a few tv shows like the csi's ,etc and they would start and some of them would go 15-30 minutes in then it would show a glitch and stop with the standard end of programing tivo message to delete it, save it, etc. Today I pulled the tivo drive out and ran spinrite on it. Spinrite reported a few recovered sectors. After letting spinrite chew on it for about 4 hours I stopped it and returned the drive to the tivo since my family is on their way home and my sunday window of opportunity is closing ;>/ Since spinrite found a few bad sectors I just don't have faith in that drive. I may be just experiencing typical comcast issues this past week with the ruined recordings and interesting live tv artifacts but as of today the signal playback on my tivo seems fine. I wish tivo had some live checkdisk type of utilities that you could run from a maintenance menu to verify the disk while in the unit. Anyway hopefully everything will work out and I should have that new drive in a few days. Thanks for your post. Doug D in CT.


My pleasure. It does sound like a hard drive issue. TiVo actually has some built in diagnostic and repair programs called Kickstarts. Although it's probably a good time to replace the drive, have a look here and see what you think...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

Hope that helps a little and let us know how things go.


----------



## wackymann

My Series 3 w/750 GB Seagate started acting funny after a few years, so I upgraded it to a 1 TB EVDS late last year. It's still going strong! I used winmfs on my Windows 7 machine and carefully followed the FAQ. I didn't have any spare power connections on my PC's supply, so I used a couple of Rosewill external USB drive bays. It was a lot slower than if I had used the SATA connection, but it all went fine. I personally think it's prudent to replace the drive every few years as routine maintenance, especially now that they are so cheap. I paid over $400 for the 750 GB drive back in 2006 LOL


----------



## CaseyK24

ehardman said:


> Where did you get your drive with the Aug. 24 date?
> 
> Does anyone else know who is shipping WD10EVDS drives with dates that don't have to run wdidle?


I got mine from buy.com.

Casey


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## harry99

Just a note on upgrading my Tivo HD. Before finally discovering that my pixellation/freezing problems were solved by removing the My DVR Expander, I purchased a Premiere upgrade. I am having rebooting problems with the Premiere, but that is a different story.

I did successfully install a 1TB Hitachi Deskstar 31000 this morning, using the great instructions in the upgrade forum. I bought the drive (mfg. date was 09/2009) from Amazon (sent from CompUSA) for $69.99 plus $5.39 shipping. I also ordered a Stanley Torx set and Sabrent USB to SATA/IDE adapter ($10.68 and $19.99 from Amazon). Used WinMFS Beta 9.3 to backup and restore. I had removed all recordings, favorites, etc. Took just under 7 minutes to backup, and 2 min. 20 sec. to restore. Did supersize, downloaded Hddscan and ran AAM. Total time for all that including downloading, registering, etc. was under an hour. Only issue I had was that I didn't attach power to the drive the first time - in the WinMFS pictures, it tells you what adapter to use for Tivo HD - only shows the adapter, not the power - obviously someone who knows more would not have made that mistake.

Anyway, it all worked great, and I am ordering another Hitachi drive for my other Tivo HD.

Now, on to getting my Premiere to work.

Thanks for all your help.


----------



## angs9

I saw a WD10EARS come up for a good price, and once I got over the fear of Intellipark and Advanced Format I ordered it. I just booted FreeDOS and set the intellipark timeout to 300 per the instructions at the first page of this thread. But I noticed wdidle3.exe also had the ability to disable Intellipark entirely. Is there any reason not to just do that?

Thanks


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## ThreeSoFar

angs9 said:


> I saw a WD10EARS come up for a good price, and once I got over the fear of Intellipark and Advanced Format I ordered it. I just booted FreeDOS and set the intellipark timeout to 300 per the instructions at the first page of this thread. But I noticed wdidle3.exe also had the ability to disable Intellipark entirely. Is there any reason not to just do that?
> 
> Thanks


If I remember right, it's fine to try it. It may not work on every drive, and if it does not report success, I would repeat the 300 setting you'd already confirmed works.

It may also be that different versions of the wdidle3.exe program vary in this, some may disable it, some may not.


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## rethinking

Sorry if this doesn't belong here, but..... I just got a wd dvr expander (WDG1S10000N) for my tivo HD. I also have a cox tuning adapter and tivo wireless network adapter. I got the expander to set up pretty easily, but now I find that I can only get one usb port on my tivo to recognize a device. They were both working before the install, but now the top port will not recognize whatever I plug in. I have tried rebooting in various orders and still nothing from the top usb port. I have also tried switching adapters and chords and still the top one will not respond. Any thoughts?


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## richsadams

rethinking said:


> Sorry if this doesn't belong here, but..... I just got a wd dvr expander (WDG1S10000N) for my tivo HD. I also have a cox tuning adapter and tivo wireless network adapter. I got the expander to set up pretty easily, but now I find that I can only get one usb port on my tivo to recognize a device. They were both working before the install, but now the top port will not recognize whatever I plug in. I have tried rebooting in various orders and still nothing from the top usb port. I have also tried switching adapters and chords and still the top one will not respond. Any thoughts?


It dosen't seem likely that one (attaching the eSATA drive) would have anything to do with the other (USB port becoming inactive), but you never know I suppose.

I would try divorcing the drive and see if things return to normal. Be aware that any recordings made since the drive was attached will be lost though. Be sure to follow the proper divorce procedures (found on the TiVo website). If that doesn't work I'd give TiVo a call.

Maybe someone else will have a solution...whatever the case let us know how things turn out. AFAIK that's a new one!


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## V7Goose

richsadams said:


> It dosen't seem likely that one (attaching the eSATA drive) would have anything to do with the other (USB port becoming inactive), but you never know I suppose.
> 
> I would try divorcing the drive and see if things return to normal. Be aware that any recordings made since the drive was attached will be lost though. Be sure to follow the proper divorce procedures (found on the TiVo website). If that doesn't work I'd give TiVo a call.
> 
> Maybe someone else will have a solution...whatever the case let us know how things turn out. AFAIK that's a new one!


The reason I say this might be normal is a surprise I found on my Asus O!Play media player - this little box has both a USB and eSATA drive interface, the the eSATA port ALSO functions as a second USB port. I had never seen this before, but I tested it and it does work for either eSATA or USB drives.

So it seems possible that one of the USB ports on the TiVo box could be physically connected to the eSATA port. I guess I'll go test my HD unit by moving the wireless adapter to the other port . . .


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## V7Goose

Interesting, my HD unit with a WD expander shows the same behavior! The wireless adapter has always been in the bottom USB slot and works fine. I just moved it to the top one and no workie. Very interesting.

Makes me begin to wonder if the HD would actually work with a USB drive in the top slot instead of requiring the eSATA drive??? I'd sure try it, just out of curiosity, if I didn't have to divorce my current expander first.


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## A J Ricaud

I just upgraded an S3 with a WD10EVDS. I couldn't get the first drive I got from Amazon to work. It had a build date of May, 2010. I ran WD's diagnostics, which it quickly failed-- "too many bad sectors". The replacement came today with a Sept. 1, 2010 build date. It would not boot completely so I ran wdidle on it. Success! It also boots fine after a soft reboot.


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## scottopus

richsadams said:


> Yes, a lot of folks are using it successfully here. The reason the WD GP drives aren't currently listed on the FAQ is due to a manufacturing issue wherein the drive's proprietary Intellipark feature caused TiVo to hang at the "Welcome! Powering up" screen during a soft reboot (either a menu restart or after a TiVo update). If you read the FAQ you'll note that the drives needed to have Intellipark timeout extended or disabled to avoid the problem, otherwise they worked normally.
> 
> More recently manufactured WD GP drives including the WD10EARS no longer require the Intellipark adjustment to be made; generally it appears those drives manufactured after the first week in August this year or so. That said, it's difficult to say what the drive's manufacture date might be if ordered from Dell or anywhere else.


I got my 1 TB WD10EARS from Dell today. It has manufacturing date of August 6, 2010 which is the last Friday of the first week 

I don't have a desktop so I"m going to use my friends computer next week to do the cloning. I'm just going to do the Intellipark patch to be sure.

With all the information on this thread, I don't foresee having any issues.


----------



## richsadams

A J Ricaud said:


> I just upgraded an S3 with a WD10EVDS. I couldn't get the first drive I got from Amazon to work. It had a build date of May, 2010. I ran WD's diagnostics, which it quickly failed-- "too many bad sectors". The replacement came today with a Sept. 1, 2010 build date. It would not boot completely so I ran wdidle on it. Success! It also boots fine after a soft reboot.


Interestingso a WD10EVDS built on Sept. 1st wouldn't boot at all w/o disabling the Intellipark feature.  IIRC the same drive with a build date back in July didn't need Intellipark tweaked at all. So far it seems it's just about impossible to make any clear declarations about which WD drive will and won't work without the adjustment.


----------



## richsadams

scottopus said:


> I got my 1 TB WD10EARS from Dell today. It has manufacturing date of August 6, 2010 which is the last Friday of the first week
> 
> I don't have a desktop so I"m going to use my friends computer next week to do the cloning. I'm just going to do the Intellipark patch to be sure.
> 
> With all the information on this thread, I don't foresee having any issues.


Sounds like you're on the right tracks/b a piece of cake. :up:


----------



## dgs2000

Forum newbie here. I have to thank everyone who contributes to this forum- this is an amazing resource and made upgrading so easy. 

Count me as a successful WD10EVDS upgrade without messing with wdidle/Intellipark adjustments. My WD10EVDS build date was August 4th 2010 and I tested a soft reboot with no issues.


----------



## richsadams

dgs2000 said:


> Forum newbie here. I have to thank everyone who contributes to this forum- this is an amazing resource and made upgrading so easy.
> 
> Count me as a successful WD10EVDS upgrade without messing with wdidle/Intellipark adjustments. My WD10EVDS build date was August 4th 2010 and I tested a soft reboot with no issues.


Welcome! Thanks very much for the data pointthe Intellipark issue seems to be hit and miss at the moment but it's nice that you didn't have to fool around with the additional work to disable it. :up:

Enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## ehardman

Just got my Dell WD10EVDS and it has a Aug. 10 date. Will do the install tomorrow.

edit: Turns out I got a WD10EARS.


----------



## richsadams

ehardman said:


> Just got my Dell WD10EVDS and it has a Aug. 10 date. Will do the install tomorrow.


Best of luck, let us know how it goesparticularly if you needed to run wdidle!


----------



## ehardman

I must be doing something wrong. I successfully backed up my Tivo drive using a Vantec USB to SATA converter on my laptop running Windows 7. After connecting the new WD10EARS, WINMFS does not see the drive, nor can I see it in My Computer. I checked the "show mounted drive box" and still nothing shows up. The drive is running and the green USB icon appears showing the adapter. I looked in device manger and the drive shows up under Disk Drives. I ran WINMFS as administrator. I have also shut down and rebooted with the new drive connected.

Any ideas?


----------



## Heinrich

Is the drive showing up in BIOS? It should be if it's connected right (it won't show up in My Computer since it's not formatted for Windows)


----------



## ehardman

Heinrich said:


> Is the drive showing up in BIOS? It should be if it's connected right (it won't show up in My Computer since it's not formatted for Windows)


I can see it in Device Manager and also in Disk Management. Do I need to partition the disk first or does WinMFS take of that?


----------



## richsadams

ehardman said:


> I can see it in Device Manager and also in Disk Management. Do I need to partition the disk first or does WinMFS take of that?


As mentioned, you still need to check your BIOS to see if the drive shows up there and the boot order. I know others have had issues trying to use laptops to perform an upgrade, but I don't recall exactly what the issues were. IIRC quite a few of them ended up using a begged, borrowed or&#8230;well someone else's PC. You might do a search of this thread (probably "laptop" will do) and see what you can find. Perhaps someone that's used a laptop to perform an upgrade will chime in.

Yes, winMFS takes care of everything so you do not need to partition the new disk.


----------



## ehardman

ehardman said:


> I must be doing something wrong. I successfully backed up my Tivo drive using a Vantec USB to SATA converter on my laptop running Windows 7. After connecting the new WD10EARS, WINMFS does not see the drive, nor can I see it in My Computer. I checked the "show mounted drive box" and still nothing shows up. The drive is running and the green USB icon appears showing the adapter. I looked in device manger and the drive shows up under Disk Drives. I ran WINMFS as administrator. I have also shut down and rebooted with the new drive connected.
> 
> Any ideas?


I gave up on the laptop and took the drive to my office where I could use the internal SATA connections on my PC. I was able to select the new drive and restored the backup from my Tivo drive.

However, upon installing the new drive, my Tivo got stuck on the "Powering Up" screen. So had to re-install the old drive.

Any ideas on why the new drive would not boot?


----------



## richsadams

ehardman said:


> I gave up on the laptop and took the drive to my office where I could use the internal SATA connections on my PC. I was able to select the new drive and restored the backup from my Tivo drive.
> 
> However, upon installing the new drive, my Tivo got stuck on the "Powering Up" screen. So had to re-install the old drive.
> 
> Any ideas on why the new drive would not boot?


If it's hanging at the "Welcome! Powering up" screen it means that the motherboard cannot communicate with the hard drive. Don't be offended, but make sure tha you actually reconnected the cables to the drivehey, it's happened (to me ).

If everything is connected properly (and you can hear the drive spin up when you plug TiVo in) there's a very good chance you'll need to disable or extend the timeout for the Intellipark "feature" of your Western Digital hard drive. See Section IV, #29 for instructions on downloading wdidle3.exe and running it. It's relatively simple to do but unfortunately this will probably call for a trip back to the office because this is one thing that doesn't work via USB and requires a direct SATA connection.

Some drives (depending on the manufacture date) don't need anything done, others boot up but won't reboot from a menu restart (soft reboot) and yet others won't even boot up without adjusting Intellipark. It's a bit of a mess still.


----------



## ehardman

Question: I ran wdidle with my new WD10EARS temporarily installed in my PC this morning. However, I did not unplug my existing WD windows boot hard drive and wdidle updated both disks with the S300 command. Is this a problem? Should I change it back? If so, how?

I will test the WD10EARS later today and post the results.

Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

ehardman said:


> Question: I ran wdidle with my new WD10EARS temporarily installed in my PC this morning. However, I did not unplug my existing WD windows boot hard drive and wdidle updated both disks with the S300 command. Is this a problem? Should I change it back? If so, how?
> 
> I will test the WD10EARS later today and post the results.
> 
> Thanks!


Ha! Rookie move. Kidding.  If you want the drive in your PC to take advantage of the Intellipark power saving feature you could change it back. Otherwise it shouldn't affect anything else one way or the other.


----------



## ehardman

richsadams said:


> Ha! Rookie move. Kidding.  If you want the drive in your PC to take advantage of the Intellipark power saving feature you could change it back. Otherwise it shouldn't affect anything else one way or the other.


Rich, thank you for all your help. If I want to change it back, how do I do that? I don't know what commands are available for wdidle other than the S300.


----------



## richsadams

ehardman said:


> Rich, thank you for all your help. If I want to change it back, how do I do that? I don't know what commands are available for wdidle other than the S300.


Easy peasy (I really hate that saying , but it seems to fit). The timer is originally set to 8 seconds so you just need to re-run wdidle3 and enter /S8. That will change it from 300 seconds (/S300) back to 8 seconds. Just for grins I tried it and can confirm it works.


----------



## ehardman

ehardman said:


> Question: I ran wdidle with my new WD10EARS temporarily installed in my PC this morning. However, I did not unplug my existing WD windows boot hard drive and wdidle updated both disks with the S300 command. Is this a problem? Should I change it back? If so, how?
> 
> I will test the WD10EARS later today and post the results.
> 
> Thanks!


I am pleased to report that wdidle solved the problem and my WD10EARS is now up and running. Goodbye to my failing 500gb My DVR Expander. Hello to 143 hours of internal HD video.

BTW, I first tried replacing the My DVR Expander eSata enclosure with a new Antec MX1. Didn't help so I guess the hard drive in the My DVR Expander was the culprit.

Rich, thank you again for your expert help.


----------



## Heinrich

I was getting frustrated making a WDIDLE3 CD and I only had a few hours, so I left my dad with a WDEARS w/o WDIDLE3. I'll fix it in two weeks. Considering the issue only happens with a soft reboot, which really doesn't happen much , I hope he'll be ok.


----------



## ThAbtO

ehardman said:


> I am pleased to report that wdidle solved the problem and my WD10EARS is now up and running. Goodbye to my failing 500gb My DVR Expander. Hello to 143 hours of internal HD video.
> 
> BTW, I first tried replacing the My DVR Expander eSata enclosure with a new Antec MX1. Didn't help so I guess the hard drive in the My DVR Expander was the culprit.
> 
> Rich, thank you again for your expert help.


I recently had My Expander quit on me from about 3 yrs of service. So I now I have a 1tb 10EVDS with 157 hrs after about 2 hrs of work. Did you activate supersize in WinMFS?


----------



## ehardman

ThAbtO said:


> I recently had My Expander quit on me from about 3 yrs of service. So I now I have a 1tb 10EVDS with 157 hrs after about 2 hrs of work. Did you activate supersize in WinMFS?


No. Did I leave 14 hours on the table?


----------



## Robbdoe1

ehardman said:


> No. Did I leave 14 hours on the table?


Yes.

The good news is you can always supersize it at any time. Should be 157 hours as stated.

Robb


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Heinrich said:


> I was getting frustrated making a WDIDLE3 CD and I only had a few hours, so I left my dad with a WDEARS w/o WDIDLE3. I'll fix it in two weeks. Considering the issue only happens with a soft reboot, which really doesn't happen much , I hope he'll be ok.


FYI, I just used an old DOS boot floppy and ran wdidle3 that way.


----------



## richsadams

ThreeSoFar said:


> FYI, I just used an old DOS boot floppy and ran wdidle3 that way.


And then he went back to listening to his favorite Creedence Clearwater 8 track tape. Ha! I kill me.


----------



## ThAbtO

richsadams said:


> And then he went back to listening to his favorite Creedence Clearwater 8 track tape. Ha! I kill me.


16gb mp3 player  Its a Sony!


----------



## maxweltd

richsadams said:


> Interestingso a WD10EVDS built on Sept. 1st wouldn't boot at all w/o disabling the Intellipark feature.  IIRC the same drive with a build date back in July didn't need Intellipark tweaked at all. So far it seems it's just about impossible to make any clear declarations about which WD drive will and won't work without the adjustment.


Oh happy days! Let me tell you my story (and big thanks to this board!): My Series 3 Tivo Hard Drive died. I bought a WD10EVDS at Fry's last night (10/04/2010). I used Instantcake to load new Series 3 image to my new drive. I reattached to my Tivo, booted, and the Tivo was stuck on "Welcome, powering up". I read this thread to look for other problems. I skipped by wdidle3 because it mentioned the issue was resolved in newer WD drives. Then I read your post, and gave wdidle3 a try. Reimaged drive with series 3 software from instantcake, rebooted Tivo, and it works!

THANKS TIVO COMMUNITY!!!

SO if any of you have the same issue, it is confirmed you need to use wdidle3 on your drive prior to loading the Series 3 image.

From poster Drey:- 12-08-2009, 10:03 PM 
It is indeed wdidle3.exe that disables IntelliPark. Once disabled, I can successfully reboot both HD and S3.

The only issue with wdidle3.exe is that it needs to run from DOS. Essentially, the steps are:

- Create bootable CD-ROM (or floppy drive, if you have it) with wdidle3.exe on it

- Connect "bad" WD drive to SATA. Ensure it is not in RAID or AHCI, but rather in EIDE Compatible mode. This is needed so older DOS can detect the drive.

- Boot from from above CD/floppy and run "wdidle3 /D" to disable IntelliPark. The message should say that it has been disabled.

- Remove the drive, load TiVo image and test. You should no longer have "soft-boot" problem.

Below is the link to bootable CD that I created with wdidle3.exe on it. When at DOS prompt, change to drive letter R: and access wdidle3.exe from there.

(I can't post link, new user, see his post for link)


----------



## harry99

harry99 said:


> Just a note on upgrading my Tivo HD. Before finally discovering that my pixellation/freezing problems were solved by removing the My DVR Expander, I purchased a Premiere upgrade. I am having rebooting problems with the Premiere, but that is a different story.
> 
> I did successfully install a 1TB Hitachi Deskstar 31000 this morning, using the great instructions in the upgrade forum. I bought the drive (mfg. date was 09/2009) from Amazon (sent from CompUSA) for $69.99 plus $5.39 shipping. I also ordered a Stanley Torx set and Sabrent USB to SATA/IDE adapter ($10.68 and $19.99 from Amazon). Used WinMFS Beta 9.3 to backup and restore. I had removed all recordings, favorites, etc. Took just under 7 minutes to backup, and 2 min. 20 sec. to restore. Did supersize, downloaded Hddscan and ran AAM. Total time for all that including downloading, registering, etc. was under an hour. Only issue I had was that I didn't attach power to the drive the first time - in the WinMFS pictures, it tells you what adapter to use for Tivo HD - only shows the adapter, not the power - obviously someone who knows more would not have made that mistake.
> 
> Anyway, it all worked great, and I am ordering another Hitachi drive for my other Tivo HD.
> 
> Now, on to getting my Premiere to work.
> 
> Thanks for all your help.


SInce the upgrade of my first Tivo HD went so easil, I ordered another Hitachi Deskstar 31000 for my second Tivo HD - from PCBAY.Com through Amazon - a few $ less than the one from CompUSA (but with sales tax) - total with shipping was $72.79. Came in the same Hitachi box. Now that I have done one upgrade, timed this one - total time was just under 25 minutes - would have been faster but when I tried to run AAM from Hddscan, the AAM function was grayed out - turns out that the Hitachi drive shows up as the Cinemastar 1TB part instead. Since that is also supported, I decided to go ahead and use it. Sort of strange that Hitachi packaged the wrong part number inside the box - serial number was correct on the outside.

Hooked up the drive next to the other upgraded HD, and was surprised that the new drive is quite a bit noisier than the Deskstar after AAM - the chart has them at the same level of 7. Rather than returnthe drive and do it all over again, guess I'll move some recordings/favorites and put the quieter one in the bedroom and the noisier one in the living room.

All in all, nice to have two new Tivo HDs - I doubt I'll run out of space for awhile. Next step is to go ahead and return my Premiere - no need for it now. My old Series 2 is still running great after 7 1/2 years - maybe when that one goes I'll see what new Tivo is available.

Again, thanks for the great instructions and support.


----------



## richsadams

maxweltd said:


> Oh happy days! Let me tell you my story (and big thanks to this board!): My Series 3 Tivo Hard Drive died. I bought a WD10EVDS at Fry's last night (10/04/2010). I used Instantcake to load new Series 3 image to my new drive. I reattached to my Tivo, booted, and the Tivo was stuck on "Welcome, powering up". I read this thread to look for other problems. I skipped by wdidle3 because it mentioned the issue was resolved in newer WD drives. Then I read your post, and gave wdidle3 a try. Reimaged drive with series 3 software from instantcake, rebooted Tivo, and it works!
> 
> THANKS TIVO COMMUNITY!!!
> 
> SO if any of you have the same issue, it is confirmed you need to use wdidle3 on your drive prior to loading the Series 3 image.


Welcome to the forum...and nice work! FWIW, wdidle3.exe can be run at any time, prior to imaging the drive or afterward. Since it's a firmware adjustment it doesn't affect the data. The link for wdidle3 is in the first post of this sticky.

Did you happen to notice the manufacture date of your new hard drive?

Enjoy!


----------



## wisny

When installing the WD DVR Expander, can you replace the supplied eSATA cable with a longer eSATA cable? Is there anything to look for in a replacement cable, if you can?


----------



## richsadams

wisny said:


> When installing the WD DVR Expander, can you replace the supplied eSATA cable with a longer eSATA cable? Is there anything to look for in a replacement cable, if you can?


Sure. Per the FAQ the recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable is less than $10.

http://www.provantage.com/siig-cb-sa0111-s1~7SISE00F.htm

Click on the "variants" tab if you need a longer cable.


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## wisny

richsadams said:


> Sure. Per the FAQ the recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable is less than $10.
> 
> http://www.provantage.com/siig-cb-sa0111-s1~7SISE00F.htm
> 
> Click on the "variants" tab if you need a longer cable.


ty, rich 

Sorry, I didn't see the place in the FAQ where cables were discussed. Can you point me to it, or can you tell me if I can use a longer cable than the one you linked to? I think that one is about the same length as the supplied one, I need one just a bit longer, b/c my TiVo is down below my TV, but the drive will have to be up above the TV, because there isn't space in the same shelf as the TiVo is located.

eta: Wait, I see there is a 2m version. Is this one okay?
http://www.provantage.com/siig-cb-sa0211-s1~7SISE00H.htm

Is either this Staples or StarTech product comparable?

http://www.staples.com/Staples-eSAT...logId=10051&cmArea=SEARCH&ddkey=StaplesSearch

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3887624


----------



## wisny

wisny said:


> ty, rich
> 
> Sorry, I didn't see the place in the FAQ where cables were discussed. Can you point me to it, or can you tell me if I can use a longer cable than the one you linked to? I think that one is about the same length as the supplied one, I need one just a bit longer, b/c my TiVo is down below my TV, but the drive will have to be up above the TV, because there isn't space in the same shelf as the TiVo is located.
> 
> eta: Wait, I see there is a 2m version. Is this one okay?
> http://www.provantage.com/siig-cb-sa0211-s1~7SISE00H.htm
> 
> Is either this Staples or StarTech product comparable?
> 
> http://www.staples.com/Staples-eSAT...logId=10051&cmArea=SEARCH&ddkey=StaplesSearch
> 
> http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3887624


Actually, it does fit horizontally on top of the TiVo, next to the tuning adapter. I'd read that more ventilation is better tho, so I was thinking it should be on top of the entertainment center. Do you think it'd be okay on top of the TiVo, next to the tuning adapter, in an open-faced shelf under the TV? Or should I get the longer cable and put the MyBook up on top of the entertainment center?

(I overlooked your earlier response on clicking on variants for the longer cable. TY!)


----------



## richsadams

wisny said:


> Actually, it does fit horizontally on top of the TiVo, next to the tuning adapter. I'd read that more ventilation is better tho, so I was thinking it should be on top of the entertainment center. Do you think it'd be okay on top of the TiVo, next to the tuning adapter, in an open-faced shelf under the TV? Or should I get the longer cable and put the MyBook up on top of the entertainment center?
> 
> (I overlooked your earlier response on clicking on variants for the longer cable. TY!)


The SIIG cable is recommended in several places in the FAQ, specifically Section IV, #26. I'd stick with the recommended cables&#8230;others aren't tested or proven. The issue is usually with the connectors. There are no (serious at least) standards and some companies scrimp on the length of the connector which can cause problems if the cable is bumped, etc. All of the recommended cables have good connectors that offer a snug fit. Although WD had some serious issues with the stock eSATA cables that came with their 500GB Expanders a few years ago, the more recent cables they supply seem to work fine.

You just want some decent ventilation around the eSATA drive as it's running 24/7 and heat can be the enemy. As long as it's sitting upright (vertical) in an open-faced shelf as you describe it s/b fine. No need to go to any extraordinary lengths.


----------



## wisny

richsadams said:


> The SIIG cable is recommended in several places in the FAQ, specifically Section IV, #26. I'd stick with the recommended cablesothers aren't tested or proven. The issue is usually with the connectors. There are no (serious at least) standards and some companies scrimp on the length of the connector which can cause problems if the cable is bumped, etc. All of the recommended cables have good connectors that offer a snug fit. Although WD had some serious issues with the stock eSATA cables that came with their 500GB Expanders a few years ago, the more recent cables they supply seem to work fine.
> 
> You just want some decent ventilation around the eSATA drive as it's running 24/7 and heat can be the enemy. As long as it's sitting upright (vertical) in an open-faced shelf as you describe it s/b fine. No need to go to any extraordinary lengths.


lol re: pun 
Thx very much, appreciate the info!


----------



## wisny

Heya again,

So, I picked up the APC UPS that Robb recommended, and I put the TiVo on standby, unplugged the TiVo, tuner, and adapter. Then I attached the included eSATA cable to the Expander, then to the TiVo. Then I plugged in the Expander, the adapter, the tuner, then the TiVo.

TiVo turned on, but it's hung up on the 'powering up' screen. I waited a half hour, then unplugged everything (TiVo first), checked to make sure all the cables were seated, then replugged everything back in. I'm hung up on the powering up screen again (going on 15 mins now, waited a half hour the first time).

How long should it take before the TiVo powers up? Is something wrong, or perhaps did I just not wait long enough?

- wis


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## richsadams

wisny said:


> Heya again,
> 
> So, I picked up the APC UPS that Robb recommended, and I put the TiVo on standby, unplugged the TiVo, tuner, and adapter. Then I attached the included eSATA cable to the Expander, then to the TiVo. Then I plugged in the Expander, the adapter, the tuner, then the TiVo.
> 
> TiVo turned on, but it's hung up on the 'powering up' screen. I waited a half hour, then unplugged everything (TiVo first), checked to make sure all the cables were seated, then replugged everything back in. I'm hung up on the powering up screen again (going on 15 mins now, waited a half hour the first time).
> 
> How long should it take before the TiVo powers up? Is something wrong, or perhaps did I just not wait long enough?
> 
> - wis


Something's wrong. TiVo won't take much if any longer to boot up with the Expander than without it.

It sounds like you're following the steps correctly. Try doing thisunplug TiVo (no need to put it into Standby, etc.) and the Expander (disconnect the eSATA cable and the adaptereverything but your TV). Plug TiVo directly into a wall outlet w/o the Expander and see if it boots up normally.

If it boots up okay, unplug it again. Plug the Expander into a wall outlet and listen to see if the drive is spinning up. If so let it spin for 15 seconds or so to come up to speed. Take the eSATA cable and reverse the ends you were using and connect it to TiVo. Plug TiVo back in, again to a wall outlet and see if things are good. It should boot up to a screen that will allow you to add the Expander.

If it hangs again on the "Welcome! Powering up" screen it means that the motherboard cannot communicate with the hard drivein this case the Expander. If that's the case there's an issue with the Expander or perhaps the cable.

If that all works unplug TiVo, then the Expander and try it again with the adapter and UPS (Expander first, wait 10 - 15 seconds) and then TiVo. If it hangs again there's an issue with the UPS (although I've no idea what it might be other than a bad battery or something) or the adapter, but again, not sure what it might be.

Just for the heck of it, can you post a link to the exact Expander you're using?

Hope that helps and let us know how it goes.


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## wisny

richsadams said:


> Something's wrong. TiVo won't take much if any longer to boot up with the Expander than without it.
> 
> It sounds like you're following the steps correctly. Try doing this&#8230;unplug TiVo (no need to put it into Standby, etc.) and the Expander (disconnect the eSATA cable and the adapter&#8230;everything but your TV). Plug TiVo directly into a wall outlet w/o the Expander and see if it boots up normally.
> 
> If it boots up okay, unplug it again. Plug the Expander into a wall outlet and listen to see if the drive is spinning up. If so let it spin for 15 seconds or so to come up to speed. Take the eSATA cable and reverse the ends you were using and connect it to TiVo. Plug TiVo back in, again to a wall outlet and see if things are good. It should boot up to a screen that will allow you to add the Expander.
> 
> If it hangs again on the "Welcome! Powering up&#8230;" screen it means that the motherboard cannot communicate with the hard drive&#8230;in this case the Expander. If that's the case there's an issue with the Expander or perhaps the cable.
> 
> If that all works unplug TiVo, then the Expander and try it again with the adapter and UPS (Expander first, wait 10 - 15 seconds) and then TiVo. If it hangs again there's an issue with the UPS (although I've no idea what it might be other than a bad battery or something) or the adapter, but again, not sure what it might be.
> 
> Just for the heck of it, can you post a link to the exact Expander you're using?
> 
> Hope that helps and let us know how it goes.


Hey Rich,

Sorry, I didn't see this earlier. I was on the phone with TiVo and Western Digital . I did try reversing the sata cable my second go-around, but I didn't try plugging it directly into the wall outlet (didn't even think of that! d'oh!). I still ended up with the 'powering up' screen hanging.

One other thing the TiVo guy had me try, after my two attempts on my own ended up with the 'powering up' screen hanging, was to boot up the TiVo without the expander attached, then attach the esata cable to the expander and then to the tivo, and then plug in the expander to the TiVo after it was all booted up. Didn't seem right to me , but I did it anyway. When I went to the settings-something-external storage, the TiVo said there was no external storage attached. Then the TiVo guy had me just unplug the TiVo, wait 30 seconds, and try again. Got the 'powering up' screen hanging again.

This is the Expander:
http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1286505395&sr=8-2

It's the newest version of the WD MyBook 1T expander.

The TiVo is up and running right now, but not with the expander. When the expander was plugged in, I could feel the disk spinning, and the little pin-size white light was showing on the front, but I couldn't get past the hang-up screen. TiVo told me to call WD, and they told me to return it to Amazon. I requested the Amazon return, but didn't box it up yet. I will try it again tomorrow, taking the UPS out of the mix, as you suggested. Just to be clear, were you also saying take the wifi adapter and the tuning box out of the mix, as well?

I'll let you know what happens. Thankyou again for your help, I really appreciate it very much .

- wis


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## richsadams

wisny said:


> I will try it again tomorrow, taking the UPS out of the mix, as you suggested. Just to be clear, were you also saying take the wifi adapter and the tuning box out of the mix, as well?


I don't think the UPS or adapters actually have anything to do with the issue, but having a "clean" environment removes those as possibilities.

Seems to me that you may just have gotten a non-op Expander&#8230;unfortunate luck of the draw. I wouldn't waste any time with WD. Based on numerous posts here and elsewhere they are less than helpful. Amazon's very good about returns so you shouldn't have any issues getting another one.


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## Robbdoe1

richsadams said:


> I don't think the UPS or adapters actually have anything to do with the issue, but having a "clean" environment removes those as possibilities.
> 
> Seems to me that you may just have gotten a non-op Expanderunfortunate luck of the draw. I wouldn't waste any time with WD. Based on numerous posts here and elsewhere they are less than helpful. Amazon's very good about returns so you shouldn't have any issues getting another one.


Rich,
It almost sounds like the expander is hanging on Intellipark? Just a thought.

I would exchange it anyway.

Robb


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## richsadams

Robbdoe1 said:


> Rich,
> It almost sounds like the expander is hanging on Intellipark? Just a thought.
> 
> I would exchange it anyway.
> 
> Robb


That's a thought, but drive issues like that have never impacted eSATA drives, only internal. Plus there are plenty already in use (based on "testimonials" here and on Amazon) so it's more likely that it's just a bad drive, bad cable, etc. IMHO.


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## cliffdwelling

I expanded my Tivo with a 1tb a few months ago and have had no problems until today. It seems now that my Tivo wants to reboot more often now out of the blue. It will just go off and then begin to power up. It just finished powering up twice in less than 20 minutes, but is working fine right now. It did this a couple of days ago and now today. it has never acted this way before and wondering if I should be concerned or is there anything I might be able to check.


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## richsadams

cliffdwelling said:


> I expanded my Tivo with a 1tb a few months ago and have had no problems until today. It seems now that my Tivo wants to reboot more often now out of the blue. It will just go off and then begin to power up. It just finished powering up twice in less than 20 minutes, but is working fine right now. It did this a couple of days ago and now today. it has never acted this way before and wondering if I should be concerned or is there anything I might be able to check.


Sorry to hear about your TiVo misbehaving. Take a look at this post and see if anything fits

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7553444#post7553444


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## cliffdwelling

richsadams said:


> Sorry to hear about your TiVo misbehaving. Take a look at this post and see if anything fits
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7553444#post7553444


Thanks, as I read through that thread, my issues are a little different.
This is an internal upgrade wd1tb green drive. After my post earlier, I have not had any rebooting issuse and the Tivo is working OK. As I said, this just started to happen and the Tivo does seem to freeze up when some commands are initiated. . I think it might be the drive,keep my fingers crossed ,but it would still be in warranty. I think I remember my cable signal strength being 100 ,could this be a problem?


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## cliffdwelling

What is QuickStart 54?


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## ThAbtO

cliffdwelling said:


> What is QuickStart 54?


That's 'Kickstart' 54.

Try searching here in this thread.


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## richsadams

cliffdwelling said:


> What is QuickStart 54?


TiVo has several built in diagnostic and repair tools called "Kickstarts". KS54 actually runs a common hard drive predictive diagnostic called SMART. It's not fool proof but it can often give you an idea if there are or are about to be problems with a hard drive. Here's more

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2


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## bigguy126

Just a FYI for everyone that is going to expand their hard drives. I recently bought :

Hitachi Deskstar (OEM) [3.5" 1TB / 7200RPM] 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Internal Hard Drive [MODEL# 0F10383]

and installed it no problem but.... It is very loud. I tried everything in the FAQ including the HDDscan and the Hitachi tool. I noticed that Hitachi removed the AAM from the current version so I used the older. Anyway, it appears that this you cannot change the AAM on this drive. I got the message that the firmware does not support it. So if sound is a concern for you do NOT get this drive. I have it in a bedroom and it is really loud.

If anyone has any ideas on other ways to change the AAM, let me know.


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## richsadams

Thanks for the info. As you found out the hard way, not all Hitachi Deskstar hard drives are created equal. The standard Deskstar 7K1000 series acoustics average 2.9bels to 3.2bels (and can be higher). By A/V standards that is very loud. The Hitachi drive most folks are using for their Tivo's, the Deskstar 7K1000.C HD31000 IDK/7K, is considerably quieter at an average of 2.4bels to 2.5bels.

To reduce the AAM (auto acoustic management) to 128 HDDScan should work (if you're logged on as administrator) but if not you could try the Hitachi Feature Tool. Be sure to use v2.11.

Here are links to the full/boxed and OEM drives:

Amazon Box:

http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-Deskstar-HD31000-IDK-7K/dp/B002D5XY8A/ref=pd_cp_e_0

Amazon OEM:

http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-Deskstar-7K1000-C-HDS721010CLA332-internal/dp/B0035WQBOY

More info and links to the tools can be found on the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ sticky thread. Have a look at Section IV, #32 in particular:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784

Perhaps you can return your drive?


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## wisny

richsadams said:


> I don't think the UPS or adapters actually have anything to do with the issue, but having a "clean" environment removes those as possibilities.
> 
> Seems to me that you may just have gotten a non-op Expanderunfortunate luck of the draw. I wouldn't waste any time with WD. Based on numerous posts here and elsewhere they are less than helpful. Amazon's very good about returns so you shouldn't have any issues getting another one.





Robbdoe1 said:


> Rich,
> It almost sounds like the expander is hanging on Intellipark? Just a thought.
> 
> I would exchange it anyway.
> 
> Robb





richsadams said:


> That's a thought, but drive issues like that have never impacted eSATA drives, only internal. Plus there are plenty already in use (based on "testimonials" here and on Amazon) so it's more likely that it's just a bad drive, bad cable, etc. IMHO.


I now have a WD Expander attached and functional :up:. 2T of space 
(I can't _believe_ how fast I filled up that first T, but that's another story ).

So, I was going to try the 'clean environment' install with the first drive, but there wasn't a convenient 'no recordings scheduled' spot the next day, so I just said fugghedabowdit and boxed it and sent it back to Amazon. Weird side note, Amazon was out of stock, and didn't expect to be back in stock for another 1-2 mos . Anyway, I just returned for a refund, rather than replacement, and had, um, I think Beach Camera, or Beach Audio, or something like that, send it. Same price etc.

New drive arrived yesterday, I installed it this am. It wasn't without a hitch tho. First time through, I got to the 'Powering Up', then 'Just a few more minutes'. Everything looked like it was going fine, so I went to get coffee and came back, and the TiVo was powered off. No lights, no nothing.

Okay, so I make sure everybody's solidly plugged in, TiVo comes back on, goes through it's thing, all seems great. It completely booted up, recognized that there was a new drive attached, requested to format it to work with TiVo, I say sure - thumb thumb thumb enter. It does its thing .... then goes to gray screen.

*scratched head*

Unplugged the TiVo power from the back of the unit, plugged it back in after 15 seconds or so, it powered up, and that was it. All was finally fine.

Are these things usually so finicky?

I'm so pleased with all the new space though . Acres of space !!!


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## richsadams

Congrats on all of that extra "real estate"! Although it never happened to me, I've seen that gray screen thing reported clear back to the original Series3 eSATA hack several years ago...so although annoying I guess I wouldn't worry about it.

Enjoy!


----------



## kenstir

This FAQ was so helpful I felt I had to contribute. Everything seemed right on the money about upgrading my Tivo HD with the WD10EVDS drive except:

1. The supplied ISO containing WDIDLE3 did not boot on my computer. I got WDIDLE directly from WD (google "wdidle3") and built my own ISO from the Ultimate Boot CD following the guide at (google "Fix TLER setting on WD Desktop") and replacing WDTLER with WDIDLE3.

2. "WDIDLE3 /D" disables intellipark altogether.

3. Be patient during a soft reboot. After all this work my Tivo went to static for 100 seconds before displaying any video, and I thought it hung. While I was pouting the Tivo came up fine.

Thanks and regards,
Kenstir


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## wisny

richsadams said:


> Congrats on all of that extra "real estate"! Although it never happened to me, I've seen that gray screen thing reported clear back to the original Series3 eSATA hack several years ago...so although annoying I guess I wouldn't worry about it.
> 
> Enjoy!


I will ! tyvm, and ty again! vm for your help steering me through it. VERY much appreciated


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## richsadams

wisny said:


> I will ! tyvm, and ty again! vm for your help steering me through it. VERY much appreciated


My pleasure!


----------



## valkyriesound

Wow..this is a long thread. You guys are great!

Quick questions- 
I'm having a problem with my Tivo HD recording partial recordings-randomly
The Tivo during live tv also glitches and freezes on channels
The Tivo will still take commands- when I change channels and go back the program is fine again

Is this a symptom of a failing HD?
I have the original Tivo HD and a WD fully supported expander.

I can't tell which one might be failing... so I:
1. Will get stuck replacing both, yes?
2. Will loose all my recordings, correct?
3. Can I replace the internal Tivo drive a use the official expander? (assuming the problem is internal) or would I have to use something else because I loose plug and play when the internal drive is replaced? I'm confused on this point.
4. Can I install anything larger than 1tb internally?

Thanks!


----------



## valkyriesound

OK.. found most of my questions...

But I'm still unclear:
1. Can I use my original expander in a replacement of the internal drive situation with PLUG and Play working?
2. Can I use WINMFS to copy the recordings off of my INTERNAL and EXTERNAL Expander (one at a time) to preserve all my recordings? I doubt there is much on the internal drive and most recordings are probably span BOTH drives currently. Saving my recordings would be great.

Thanks for your help.


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## A J Ricaud

It appears I have a failing H.D. on a S3. It re-booted twice while my wife was watching a recording. I ran KS54--failed the extended SMART test with an error 7. 

I also ran the tests on hda, which passed, and hdb and hdc. It said hdb could not be accessed or didn't exist and no hdc. Can someone fill me in on what these mean?

The S3 has an external drive attached. I suppose that you have to run the manufacturer's diagnostics to see if that is the culprit, right?


----------



## richsadams

valkyriesound said:


> OK.. found most of my questions...
> 
> But I'm still unclear:
> 1. Can I use my original expander in a replacement of the internal drive situation with PLUG and Play working?
> 2. Can I use WINMFS to copy the recordings off of my INTERNAL and EXTERNAL Expander (one at a time) to preserve all my recordings? I doubt there is much on the internal drive and most recordings are probably span BOTH drives currently. Saving my recordings would be great.
> 
> Thanks for your help.


Unfortunately it sounds like a failing hard drive, and the most likely candidate is your WD My DVR Expander. Have a look here to see if some of the suggestions help...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7553444#post7553444

You could also try running a couple of TiVo's built-in diagnostic and repair programs called "Kickstarts". Here's a link and a recommend order in which to try each one...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

To answer your questions...

1. If you upgrade the internal hard drive you lose the plug and play ability to add an external drive, however if you follow the directions in the FAQ of this sticky (first post) you can "marry" them using winMFS...it involves connecting both drives to a PC at the same time. 
2. Your basic question is can I save my recordings? Yes, if they aren't copy protected you can transfer them (via TiVo Desktop or KMTTG, etc.) to your computer and subsequently back to your "new" TiVo after an upgrade. Recordings are striped across both the internal and external drive, so there aren't any recordings on one or the other, the exception being recordings made prior to connecting the expansion drive. The next logical question is can I combine recordings on the two drives onto a single, new drive and unfortunately the answer is no.

That's probably not what you wanted to hear but hope that helps and best of luck!


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## richsadams

A J Ricaud said:


> It appears I have a failing H.D. on a S3. It re-booted twice while my wife was watching a recording. I ran KS54--failed the extended SMART test with an error 7.
> 
> I also ran the tests on hda, which passed, and hdb and hdc. It said hdb could not be accessed or didn't exist and no hdc. Can someone fill me in on what these mean?
> 
> The S3 has an external drive attached. I suppose that you have to run the manufacturer's diagnostics to see if that is the culprit, right?


See my answer to the valkyriesound's post above...looks like you're probably both in the same boat...but misery loves company right? 

Best of luck!


----------



## A J Ricaud

Thanks, richadams, I re-ran KS54. " hdc" checked out OK. I ordered a WD10EARS from Dell and will be using WinMFS after moving some stuff and divorcing the ext. drive.
This is the second S3 HD replacement for me. Can't complain too much though, I have 4 originals.


----------



## valkyriesound

Hey.. thanks for the help.

Big question- I see a method for copying the recordings to the new drive with winMFS for the internal drive. What I'm wondering is if this can be done for the external drive? Otherwise I can copy off just the settings but I'll loose all recordings...

I can't use the Tivo transfer method to save my recordings because stupid Time Warner has copy protection flags on EVERYTHING!

Thanks


----------



## richsadams

valkyriesound said:


> Big question- I see a method for copying the recordings to the new drive with winMFS for the internal drive. What I'm wondering is if this can be done for the external drive? Otherwise I can copy off just the settings but I'll loose all recordings...
> 
> I can't use the Tivo transfer method to save my recordings because stupid Time Warner has copy protection flags on EVERYTHING!
> 
> Thanks


Glad to help. Have another look at my answer to your #2 question above. There are no "internal" or "external" recordings. All recordings are spread across both drives. So the short answer is still an unfortunate no to the first part of your big question and yes to the second part.

Read the FAQ carefully and follow the upgrade instructions to the letter and you'll do fine.

Understood about the copy flag issue...very frustrating. However keep in mind that you can transfer any broadcast channel recordings (NBC, ABC, CBS, etc.) as those channels cannot be copy protected.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## richsadams

A J Ricaud said:


> Thanks, richadams, I re-ran KS54. " hdc" checked out OK. I ordered a WD10EARS from Dell and will be using WinMFS after moving some stuff and divorcing the ext. drive.
> This is the second S3 HD replacement for me. Can't complain too much though, I have 4 originals.


Sad, but hard drives don't last forever, although it looks like some you have are doing quite well.

Happy upgrading...again!


----------



## tcfcameron

With a TiVo HD, with a 2TB drive already in-place, and filled up, can you "marry" another 2TB drive, and not lose the recordings on the in-place drive?

I'd be using an identical drive, and fitting it inside the case, using the eSATA header on the mainboard, like others have done.

I know this has probably been asked and answered somewhere in this huge thread. But I'd prefer a "fresh" answer.

Even if I can't save my recordings, is it possible to make a 4TB (2TBx2) TiVo HD and not run into problems? I seem to recall that some vendors used to offer this, and then suddenly didn't...


----------



## seeker2003

I just tried to upgrade my Tivo HD with a new Hitachi 1TB harddrive. I connected both the Tivo and new harddriveto my desktop (Windows 7). I thought something was wrong b/c my computer wouldn't recognize the drives in explorer or by MFS. So, I went into Disk Management and assigned them a drive letter (did not format). MFS still did not recognize the drives, so I ran MFS as an administrator - now it's recognized. However, when I tried to backup the Tivo drive, it says that it's not a Tivo drive. I plugged the drive back into my Tivo and now I just get a gray blank screen.

After googling my issue, I found a post that said DO NOT use disk management on windows to recognize the drive. Am I SOL now or is there a way to fix my original Tivo drive? TIA.


----------



## ThAbtO

seeker2003 said:


> I just tried to upgrade my Tivo HD with a new Hitachi 1TB harddrive. I connected both the Tivo and new harddriveto my desktop (Windows 7). I thought something was wrong b/c my computer wouldn't recognize the drives in explorer or by MFS. So, I went into Disk Management and assigned them a drive letter (did not format). MFS still did not recognize the drives, so I ran MFS as an administrator - now it's recognized. However, when I tried to backup the Tivo drive, it says that it's not a Tivo drive. I plugged the drive back into my Tivo and now I just get a gray blank screen.
> 
> After googling my issue, I found a post that said DO NOT use disk management on windows to recognize the drive. Am I SOL now or is there a way to fix my original Tivo drive? TIA.


Are you using WinMFS, if so, use fix bootpage.


----------



## seeker2003

ThAbtO said:


> Are you using WinMFS, if so, use fix bootpage.


Just saw that option!  Used it and now it's backing up. Such a useful thread. Thanks!


----------



## pgoelz

I just upgraded my TivoHD by installing an internal 1TB drive and I didn't see this quirk in the otherwise excellent FAQ or in the replies I read.....

I just replaced my old WD 1TB "green" PC backup drive with a WD 2TB "green" drive and decided to use the old 1TB drive in my TivoHD. Since it was formerly used as a backup drive, it had very few hours on it. During the upgrade, everything worked as expected EXCEPT that WinMFS would not recognize the 1TB drive until I deleted the NTFS partition and left the drive unassigned (as if it was new). Perhaps it would be a good idea to cover this in the FAQ so others who use previously formatted drives in the Tivo don't have to scratch their heads like I did. 

Paul


----------



## ThAbtO

pgoelz said:


> I just upgraded my TivoHD by installing an internal 1TB drive and I didn't see this quirk in the otherwise excellent FAQ or in the replies I read.....
> 
> I just replaced my old WD 1TB "green" PC backup drive with a WD 2TB "green" drive and decided to use the old 1TB drive in my TivoHD. Since it was formerly used as a backup drive, it had very few hours on it. During the upgrade, everything worked as expected EXCEPT that WinMFS would not recognize the 1TB drive until I deleted the NTFS partition and left the drive unassigned (as if it was new). Perhaps it would be a good idea to cover this in the FAQ so others who use previously formatted drives in the Tivo don't have to scratch their heads like I did.
> 
> Paul


Windows should not recognize the Tivo drive, if it had, you have to run 'Fix Bootpage' on WinMFS.


----------



## pgoelz

You misunderstand. The issue is that WinMFS does not recognize a formatted drive as a destination drive.... just an unformatted unallocated one. The upgrade / transfer process works fine if you use a brand new destination drive. But if you do as I did and use a previously used drive as the destination, you need to delete the partition(s) and put it back to unallocated status before WinMFS will recognize it as the destination drive. 

Paul


----------



## ThAbtO

pgoelz said:


> You misunderstand. The issue is that WinMFS does not recognize a formatted drive as a destination drive.... just an unformatted unallocated one. The upgrade / transfer process works fine if you use a brand new destination drive. But if you do as I did and use a previously used drive as the destination, you need to delete the partition(s) and put it back to unallocated status before WinMFS will recognize it as the destination drive.
> 
> Paul


Yes, I know. Just wanted to note the previous post. Basically, remove all previous partition on a non-Tivo drive.

Perhaps these should be added to the first post, if its not already.
FAQ: What do I do now that Windows has recognized my Tivo drive(s)? A: Run 'Fix Bootpage' on WinMFS.
FAQ: How can I get a previous used drive to be used in Tivo? A: Remove all partitions on that drive.


----------



## A J Ricaud

Intellipark is alive and well on a WD10EARS w/a build date of Sept. 2, manuf. in Malaysia--had to run wdidle on for it to even boot. Now running fine.


----------



## richsadams

A J Ricaud said:


> Intellipark is alive and well on a WD10EARS w/a build date of Sept. 2, manuf. in Malaysia--had to run wdidle on for it to even boot. Now running fine.


Good to know. Thanks for the datapoint! :up:


----------



## linetest

I'm just jumping in here as I want to replace my original Series 3 drive. I read the upgrade FAQ and see almost no WD drives listed. As I scan through posts, I see some alphabet soup of WD part numbers. I would prefer a WD drive.

Any reason folks are not going with the WD A/V drives (1TB Drive is model WD10EVDS)? Seems like these would be ideal for this purpose yet folks are going for some other models.

Thanks.


----------



## ThAbtO

linetest said:


> I'm just jumping in here as I want to replace my original Series 3 drive. I read the upgrade FAQ and see almost no WD drives listed. As I scan through posts, I see some alphabet soup of WD part numbers. I would prefer a WD drive.
> 
> Any reason folks are not going with the WD A/V drives (1TB Drive is model WD10EVDS)? Seems like these would be ideal for this purpose yet folks are going for some other models.
> 
> Thanks.


Those are WD drives, like 10EVDS,10EVCS, 10EARS etc. Hard drives are a part, aren't they?


----------



## linetest

ThAbtO said:


> Those are WD drives, like 10EVDS,10EVCS, 10EARS etc. Hard drives are a part, aren't they?


Not sure what you mean. Yes, they are all WD drives. But is there a difference? Any reason to go with one over another?


----------



## ThAbtO

They actually are their model numbers, hardly any difference between the models.


----------



## dougdingle

I have an S3 with the original (250 gig?) internal drive, and an external 1 TB drive.

Is it possible to upgrade the internal 250 to a 1 TB dive (for a total of internal+external of 2 TB) without losing the shows?

Some places on the MFS site seem to suggest this is doable, others seem to say this is not supported.


----------



## aristoBrat

A J Ricaud said:


> Intellipark is alive and well on a WD10EARS w/a build date of Sept. 2, manuf. in Malaysia--had to run wdidle on for it to even boot. Now running fine.


For anyone else like me who only read a little of the FAQ before jumping in, just wanted to added that my WD10EVDS required wdidle before it would boot, too.

I was expecting it to probably hang on soft-reboots w/o the wdidle, but didn't catch that it might not boot without it.

Your post being on the "Last Page" totally saved my night. Thanks!


----------



## A J Ricaud

aristoBrat said:


> For anyone else like me who only read a little of the FAQ before jumping in, just wanted to added that my WD10EVDS required wdidle before it would boot, too.
> 
> I was expecting it to probably hang on soft-reboots w/o the wdidle, but didn't catch that it might not boot without it.
> 
> Your post being on the "Last Page" totally saved my night. Thanks!


Glad I could help. This site has saved me many times.


----------



## tcfcameron

linetest said:


> I'm just jumping in here as I want to replace my original Series 3 drive. I read the upgrade FAQ and see almost no WD drives listed. As I scan through posts, I see some alphabet soup of WD part numbers. I would prefer a WD drive.
> 
> Any reason folks are not going with the WD A/V drives (1TB Drive is model WD10EVDS)? Seems like these would be ideal for this purpose yet folks are going for some other models.
> 
> Thanks.


You have been given incorrect information by another poster here.

All those drives have different model numbers because they are DIFFERENT. Look up the model numbers with the search tool on Western Digital's website and you will be able to find the correct information, which will show that each drive is different, and the differences can be very important.

Why on earth somebody here would advise that, basically, a 1TB WD drive, no matter what the model number, is the same, is beyond me.

There are cases where WD will take the same drive and assign it a different model number, but they are few and far between. This usually involves whether it is sold as a "retail boxed drive kit" or a "bare OEM drive".

I use 2TB WD20EADS drives in all of my TiVos. There are other model numbers, such as, WD20EARS, WD20EVDS, and a few others with different letters after the WD20 part. They are all different drives. Some are in completely different drive categories and have very different intended uses. There's the GP line, the AV-GP line, the Caviar line, etc. The cache size can vary dramatically between lines, as well as the RPM speed.

I'd highly suggest doing your own research, and not take what is said in these forums on blind faith. My own recommendations, for the best suited drive is the AV-GP line (rated for 24x7 operation), followed by the GP Caviar line (not rated for 24x7 operation).


----------



## richsadams

linetest said:


> I'm just jumping in here as I want to replace my original Series 3 drive. I read the upgrade FAQ and see almost no WD drives listed. As I scan through posts, I see some alphabet soup of WD part numbers. I would prefer a WD drive.
> 
> Any reason folks are not going with the WD A/V drives (1TB Drive is model WD10EVDS)? Seems like these would be ideal for this purpose yet folks are going for some other models.
> 
> Thanks.


All of Western Digital's GP drives including the WD10EVDS, WD10EVCS, WD10EACS, WD10EADS, WD10EARS, etc. have been and are being used successfully to upgrade TiVo's and specifically the Series3.

TiVo's hard drive requirements are minimal so any extra speed (above 5400RPM) or cache (OEM TiVo Series3 HDD's have 2MB of cache) won't result in any performance enhancement. WD's A/V dedicated series of drives are a good choice as they have the benefit of lowered Auto Acoustic Management or AAM (128) which makes them very quiet howerver TiVo can't take advantage of or doesn't require the other features of those drives. Although the "standard" WD GP drives are quiet out of the box, the AAM can be lowered to equal the A/V drive's specifications by using a program called hddscan.

The reason these drives were removed from the recommended list for now is due to WD's proprietary Intellipark feature that allows the drives to spin down and park the heads when they are idle. Since TiVo drives are recording 24/7 the "feature" is never utilized but because of it these drives can hang at the initial boot, after a software update or a menu restart. To address this a special program, wdidle3.exe, has to be run to adjust or disable the timeout of the Intellipark feature. FWIW it appears that WD GP drives manufactured after mid September 2010 no longer require the adjustment.

Everything else you need to know can be found in the FAQ and if you follow the instructions to the letter you shouldn't have any problems upgrading your Series3 but if you have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## Robbdoe1

Rich, you are not allowed to take any more time away from the forum . It can get ugly in here without you .

Robb


----------



## richsadams

dougdingle said:


> I have an S3 with the original (250 gig?) internal drive, and an external 1 TB drive.
> 
> Is it possible to upgrade the internal 250 to a 1 TB drive (for a total of internal+external of 2 TB) without losing the shows?


Unfortunately the answer is no with respect to the recordings. However you can transfer any non-copy protected recordings to your computer using TiVo Desktop, KTTMG or one of the other third-party programs and then return them to your "new" TiVo after the upgrade.

After upgrading the internal drive your external drive can no longer be connected via plug and play, however you can use it if you marry or "bless" the external drive during the upgrade process.

All of the info for everything you want to do is included in the FAQ, but as mentioned in the previous post, don't hesitate to ask any questions that might arise.


----------



## richsadams

Robbdoe1 said:


> Rich, you are not allowed to take any more time away from the forum . It can get ugly in here without you .
> 
> Robb


Understood.  It'll never happen again...at least until next time.


----------



## tcfcameron

richsadams said:


> Understood.  It'll never happen again...at least until next time.


Now that you're back (I was wondering what was going on around here), could you answer this one for me, please?

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8186165#post8186165


----------



## richsadams

tcfcameron said:


> With a TiVo HD, with a 2TB drive already in-place, and filled up, can you "marry" another 2TB drive, and not lose the recordings on the in-place drive?
> 
> I'd be using an identical drive, and fitting it inside the case, using the eSATA header on the mainboard, like others have done.
> 
> I know this has probably been asked and answered somewhere in this huge thread. But I'd prefer a "fresh" answer.
> Even if I can't save my recordings, is it possible to make a 4TB (2TBx2) TiVo HD and not run into problems? I seem to recall that some vendors used to offer this, and then suddenly didn't...


I don't know for sure but IIRC it can't be done due to a Kernal limit or Apple partition issue, but I can't recall if it's that or something else. FWIW if it were possible I don't know why you'd lose any recordings since you're just blessing a second drive.

Here's a post by someone that installed two 1TB drives inside his four TiVo HD's:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7348722#post7348722

You might want to check with the OP to see if he ran into any issues.

Then it's probably best to check in with Spike at mfslive.org

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful, but if you get an answer one way or another, it would be great if you could post the details! TIA.


----------



## lrhorer

Well, finally! So who is going to be the first one to try one of these? DVR_Dude should be able to make use of them, and of course Jamie's hack should allow them to work in a TiVo, even an S3. Last I saw, Win_MFS is still broken for > 1.2T, isn't it?

Newegg has them for $239, which isn't bad for an intro price. If they come down to under $200 in the next 3 or 4 months, I can start my long-delayed array upgrades.


----------



## richsadams

lrhorer said:


> Well, finally! So who is going to be the first one to try one of these? DVR_Dude should be able to make use of them, and of course Jamie's hack should allow them to work in a TiVo, even an S3. Last I saw, Win_MFS is still broken for > 1.2T, isn't it?
> 
> Newegg has them for $239, which isn't bad for an intro price. If they come down to under $200 in the next 3 or 4 months, I can start my long-delayed array upgrades.


Comer (jmfs 2TB Premiere upgrade author) tried  a 3TB drive out on his TiVo Premiere (both internal and external) but no go.  Perhaps it will work in a TiVo HD/HDXL or Series3 though...I'd be very interested to find out as well. Volunteers?


----------



## retiredqwest

Before anyone gets too excited about a 3TB drive..... you better read this http://www.wdc.com/en/solutions/Greaterthan22.asp


----------



## richsadams

retiredqwest said:


> Before anyone gets too excited about a 3TB drive..... you better read this http://www.wdc.com/en/solutions/Greaterthan22.asp


Good advice. I know there aren't any issues with Apple and modified Linux OS's (won't work with 32 bit Windows) but IIRC hard drives larger than 2.19 TB are only supported internally by a limited number of motherboards. I also think there may be Kernel and/or Apple partition issues with TiVo. I only know enough to be dangerous though so I'll leave it to the HDD gurus and TiVo Pioneers to sort this one out.


----------



## ADG

Quick hard drive question please. Beginning to have some problems with the drive I put in a year ago and I want to get a replacement (or at least a backup for when I need to replace it). My first choice would be 500 Gb but I can go with 1 Tb if needed. Quiet is better since it's in the bedroom.

I've looked at the list of drives in the first post of this tread but most of those (at least the 500Gb) are either discontinued or impossible to find. What are the current suggestions for drives?

And is the Seagate st3500312cs (which is no longer listed) still a viable option?

Thanks very much.


----------



## richsadams

ADG said:


> Quick hard drive question please. Beginning to have some problems with the drive I put in a year ago and I want to get a replacement (or at least a backup for when I need to replace it). My first choice would be 500 Gb but I can go with 1 Tb if needed. Quiet is better since it's in the bedroom.
> 
> I've looked at the list of drives in the first post of this tread but most of those (at least the 500Gb) are either discontinued or impossible to find. What are the current suggestions for drives?
> 
> And is the Seagate st3500312cs (which is no longer listed) still a viable option?
> 
> Thanks very much.


Hi Allan. If I were going to replace/upgrade today and wanted a quiet drive I'd go with a Western Digital WD10EVDS or WD10EVCS. The only possible issue with those is that the timeout for the Intellipark feature may need to be extended or disabled to prevent a hang at boot, after a software upgrade or menu restart. I say "possible" because it appears that WD GP drives manufactured after mid-September appear to no longer have this issue. It's not a big process but does require that the hard drive be connected to the computer using a SATA port (USB adapters won't work). Have a read about it in the FAQ, specifically Section IV, #29.

The Seagate ST3500312CS should still be fine as well and the acoustics are very quiet. FWIW there's also a 1TB model of that same drive (ST31000322CS) and the price is very reasonable..

I've always purchased as much storage space as I can possibly afford at the time. It seems I always end up wanting more eventually and I've never regretted it.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## ADG

Rich - as always, thanks very much. In fact the drive I put in a year ago was a "green" drive so I'm familiar with the process. Size isn't that important to me because I have two S3's in the same room and have plenty of space with a minimum of 500 Gb. But as long as I've got you - is there any reason in your opinion I should go with the WD over the Seagate (the Seagate is under $50: http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-ST3500312CS-500GB-7200RPM-Sata/dp/B002NBFC3O)? and of course it doesn't require me changing any settings).


----------



## richsadams

ADG said:


> Rich - as always, thanks very much. In fact the drive I put in a year ago was a "green" drive so I'm familiar with the process. Size isn't that important to me because I have two S3's in the same room and have plenty of space with a minimum of 500 Gb. But as long as I've got you - is there any reason in your opinion I should go with the WD over the Seagate (the Seagate is under $50: http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-ST3500312CS-500GB-7200RPM-Sata/dp/B002NBFC3O)? and of course it doesn't require me changing any settings).


Glad to help. If it were me I'd stick with the WD drives. I used to be a huge Seagate fan (still have a couple in service that work great), but since they purchased Maxtor it seems like their QC has fallen off pretty sharply. That might or might not be a coincidence. Based on reviews at Newegg that drive doesn't seem to have done so well either. I used to steer clear of WD drives once upon a time but over the past few years WD has really risen to the top quality-wise and I haven't had any issues with about a half-dozen or more that I've purchased in the last four years or so.

If you want to stick with 500GB you could go with this WD WD5000AVDS AV GP drive for about the same price including shipping. The reviews on Newegg are much better.

Just curious...what is your TiVo doing that makes you think the drive is going bad? If it's only a year old or so it might be something else. Do you happen to have an eSATA drive attached? You probably know best, but if you can post the symptoms the wise folks around here might have other ideas.

Your call of course and hope that helps!


----------



## ADG

No, no external drives attached. For the past week, many recorded programs (though not all) display sever pixilation and stutter throughout part of the playback (not all). My guess is some bad sectors on the hd, but I'm just not sure. The recordings were all HD (that's all I record) and from more than one channel. If you can think of other potential causes I'd love to hear.

Oh - and it appears the WD5000AVDS is not a green drive - is that correct? If so it looks great. Thanks again.


----------



## richsadams

ADG said:


> No, no external drives attached. For the past week, many recorded programs (though not all) display sever pixilation and stutter throughout part of the playback (not all). My guess is some bad sectors on the hd, but I'm just not sure. The recordings were all HD (that's all I record) and from more than one channel. If you can think of other potential causes I'd love to hear.
> 
> Oh - and it appears the WD5000AVDS is not a green drive - is that correct? If so it looks great. Thanks again.


Do you see Macroblocking/tiling/pixelization during live viewing? If so have you had a chance to look at the RS Corrected and Uncorrected errors? It's quite possible that it's a signal issue...they often appear when the weather gets ugly due to line problems, etc. Just a thought.

All of the WD drives with the "GP" designation are considered "green".


----------



## ADG

richsadams said:


> Do you see Macroblocking/tiling/pixelization during live viewing? If so have you had a chance to look at the RS Corrected and Uncorrected errors? It's quite possible that it's a signal issue...they often appear when the weather gets ugly due to line problems, etc. Just a thought.
> 
> All of the WD drives with the "GP" designation are considered "green".


No, just during playback.


----------



## richsadams

ADG said:


> No, just during playback.


Likely a hard drive then. WD drives have a three-year warranty. You s/b able to get a replacement. You can process the exchange on your own by going to the Western Digital Product Replacement site or you can call Western Digital Customer Support at 1-800-ASK-WDC (275-4932) to have an agent process the exchange. If you have your original drive you could slip it back in while doing the exchange. Just (another) thought.


----------



## ADG

Thanks again Rich.


----------



## cjgadd3

ADG said:


> Quick hard drive question please. Beginning to have some problems with the drive I put in a year ago and I want to get a replacement (or at least a backup for when I need to replace it). My first choice would be 500 Gb but I can go with 1 Tb if needed. Quiet is better since it's in the bedroom.
> 
> I've looked at the list of drives in the first post of this tread but most of those (at least the 500Gb) are either discontinued or impossible to find. What are the current suggestions for drives?
> 
> And is the Seagate st3500312cs (which is no longer listed) still a viable option?
> 
> Thanks very much.


I replaced my original 160GB drive in my HD with the Seagate ST3500312CS
back in the spring. Started having problems with it about 3 or 4 months later. Sudden rebooting for no reason. Replaced it with the WD WD5000AVDS from Amazon. Works flawlessly. Dead quiet, too. FWIW.


----------



## ADG

Okay CJ, thanks.


----------



## lrhorer

retiredqwest said:


> Before anyone gets too excited about a 3TB drive..... you better read this http://www.wdc.com/en/solutions/Greaterthan22.asp


Why? I'm already aware of the BIOS limitations. I'm not looking to use it on a BIOS bound OS. Look at the last column on the table.


----------



## retiredqwest

lrhorer said:


> Why? I'm already aware of the BIOS limitations. I'm not looking to use it on a BIOS bound OS. Look at the last column on the table.


And it also says a Host Bus Adapter is required......

go for it and let us know how it turns out.


----------



## ADG

Rich - just a quick follow up if I may.

1) Per your suggestion I ordered the WD WD5000AVDS AV GP drive. I've already burned the wdidle .iso and am ready to defeat the idle function when it arrives. BTW - when I then format & "prepare" the drive does it matter if I use an older tivo hd from the same S3 (the one I removed a year ago) as the source drive? I'm assuming that any firmware upgrades to the tivo are on an EPROM somewhere and not on the HD - correct?

2) As an interim measure I deleted all old programs from the "Recently Deleted" folder. The thinking was that it if indeed the problem is a few bad sectors on the HD, the new recordings will have a lot of available space on which to record that wasn't available before and maybe the pixilation won't be a problem on most recordings. Well, so far so good - watched a couple of new recordings last night with no issues.


----------



## lrhorer

retiredqwest said:


> And it also says a Host Bus Adapter is required......
> 
> go for it and let us know how it turns out.


I will, but I've got to find some pennies to rub together, first. With Christmas coming up, pennies are a little bit in short supply at the moment... 

One of my arrays is almost full, though, so I'm going to need to do something before long. I can get a 1T drive for about $60, so even though I will have to chunk the drive later, that extra $180 is just staring me in the face. OTOH I'm rather wondering what I'm going to do with 31 hard drives, once they all get replaced.


----------



## ThAbtO

A penny for your thoughts.... whoops, its a dime now.


----------



## unitron

Anybody know if the TSD-500AAKS will work (with proper sata to ide adapter) in S1SA or S2SADT machines?

CompUsa has 'em cheapish through Saturday (10/30/2010).


----------



## richsadams

ADG said:


> Rich - just a quick follow up if I may.
> 
> 1) Per your suggestion I ordered the WD WD5000AVDS AV GP drive. I've already burned the wdidle .iso and am ready to defeat the idle function when it arrives. BTW - when I then format & "prepare" the drive does it matter if I use an older tivo hd from the same S3 (the one I removed a year ago) as the source drive? I'm assuming that any firmware upgrades to the tivo are on an EPROM somewhere and not on the HD - correct?


 Using the orignial TiVo HDD is your best bet. :up: OS upgrades are actually on the drive so you have a couple of choices. You could slip the original TiVo drive back in and wait for it to update. (Updates aren't incremental so it automatically goes from whatever is on there to the current version.) Or you can force a connection to get the latest OS (it may take several connections but eventually it will work)...

1. TiVo Central
2. Messages and settings
3. Settings
4. Phone and network
5. Connect to the TiVo service now

Once the download has finished and loaded look at the "Last Successful" line on that screen or in System Information and if it says "Pending restart" instead of a date your new software will automatically install at 2 a.m. your time. Or you can reboot TiVo and it will install the upgrade immediately. You will see these two screens during the reboot process when it does.

You can reboot TiVo via the menu screens:

1. TiVo Central
2. Messages & Setup
3. Restart or reset system
4. Restart the TiVo DVR

Or you can power cycle it by unplugging TiVo, wait about 10 seconds for the hard drive to spin down and then plug it back in.

Then when you image the new drive you'll already have the latest OS. Or you can just use the old image and perform the above steps on the new drive after running winMFS. Having the latest OS on your OEM drive never hurts though



ADG said:


> As an interim measure I deleted all old programs from the "Recently Deleted" folder. The thinking was that it if indeed the problem is a few bad sectors on the HD, the new recordings will have a lot of available space on which to record that wasn't available before and maybe the pixilation won't be a problem on most recordings. Well, so far so good - watched a couple of new recordings last night with no issues.


I neglected to ask if you ran any of TiVo's built-in diagnostic and repair programs called "Kickstarts". A couple are designed to repair corruption and isolate bad sectors. Might be worth a try. If the drive isn't too bad that may be all you need (sorry I didn't think to ask earlier). More here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2


----------



## lrhorer

ADG said:


> Rich - just a quick follow up if I may.
> 
> 1) Per your suggestion I ordered the WD WD5000AVDS AV GP drive. I've already burned the wdidle .iso and am ready to defeat the idle function when it arrives. BTW - when I then format & "prepare" the drive does it matter if I use an older tivo hd from the same S3 (the one I removed a year ago) as the source drive? I'm assuming that any firmware upgrades to the tivo are on an EPROM somewhere and not on the HD - correct?


TiVo does not issue firmware updates. Everything is updated on the drive. There is a PROM chip on the MB, but no one has ever been able to show the hardware is even capable of upgrading the PROM insitu. Certainly no such upgrade has ever occurred.


----------



## jlib

tcfcameron said:


> ...the best suited drive is the AV-GP line (rated for 24x7 operation), followed by the GP Caviar line (not rated for 24x7 operation).


If you were to open those two drives of the same capacity you would not be able to discern any mechanical difference because there is none. Same motors, same bearings, same platters, same head mechanism, same MTBF, same warranty, same non-recoverable read errors per bits read, same load unload cycles. The only difference is the firmware, the preset acoustic tuning, and perhaps the amount of cache. All modern drives are designed for 24x7 operation, especially the the newer low-power, low heat, low-rpm models.

I like the way richadams summed up the whole 24x7 thing in the parallel Premier upgrade thread as being merely a marketing gambit, although it is really even less than that since they don't actually certify anything. Even jumping to the enterprise line WD RE4-GP gives you little in the way of more reliability in the TiVo other than a longer warranty. Since the TiVo never spins down nor unloads and reloads the heads in normal use it is an extremely non-stressful environment. I think the best suited drive is the one that is on sale when you are buying it.


----------



## ADG

richsadams said:


> I neglected to ask if you ran any of TiVo's built-in diagnostic and repair programs called "Kickstarts". A couple are designed to repair corruption and isolate bad sectors. Might be worth a try. If the drive isn't too bad that may be all you need (sorry I didn't think to ask earlier). More here:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2


I'll give it a shot - thanks.


----------



## husky55

jlib said:


> If you were to open those two drives of the same capacity you would not be able to discern any mechanical difference because there is none. Same motors, same bearings, same platters, same head mechanism, same MTBF, same warranty, same non-recoverable read errors per bits read, same load unload cycles. The only difference is the firmware, the preset acoustic tuning, and perhaps the amount of cache. All modern drives are designed for 24x7 operation, especially the the newer low-power, low heat, low-rpm models.
> 
> I like the way richadams summed up the whole 24x7 thing in the parallel Premier upgrade thread as being merely a marketing gambit, although it is really even less than that since they don't actually certify anything. Even jumping to the enterprise line WD RE4-GP gives you little in the way of more reliability in the TiVo other than a longer warranty. Since the TiVo never spins down nor unloads and reloads the heads in normal use it is an extremely non-stressful environment. I think the best suited drive is the one that is on sale when you are buying it.


I love to believe that this is true. But, and it's a big but, the Newegg reviews of the WD 20EARS ( recently on sale for a fantastic deal) showed high incidents of failures. Now it may be that the internals of the 20EARS and the WD 20EVDS are the same but it seems that the EV (which costs more) reviews are a lot more positive.

Since it takes a looong time to copy the the HD Premiere to the new HD (about 3 hours I believe), I will forsake the money saving deal and go with the most reliable HD. On the other hand, I have had a Hitachi HD (not on the recommended list) with my HD for over a year now and it still ticking. Knock on wood.


----------



## linetest

I just unpacked a new WD10EVDS drive and hooked it up to a PC to run WDIDLE since the drive had a birthday of 23 Aug 10. When I ran WDIDLE, it shows "Timer enabled and set to 8.0 seconds". Now what on earth could I be doing wrong with something so easy?

*Edit, I should note...When I first booted the CD it only showed FreeDOS OEM Bootable CD-ROM and a "C" prompt. No other message. So I ran WDIDLE3 from the prompt and that is when I got the above message.


----------



## drhankz

linetest said:


> I just unpacked a new WD10EVDS drive and hooked it up to a PC to run WDIDLE since the drive had a birthday of 23 Aug 10. When I ran WDIDLE, it shows "Timer enabled and set to 8.0 seconds". Now what on earth could I be doing wrong with something so easy?
> 
> *Edit, I should note...When I first booted the CD it only showed eDOS OEM Bootable CD-ROM and a carrot prompt. No other message. So I ran WDIDLE3 from the prompt and that is when I got the above message.


The drive is likely formatted for a PC - not a Tivo - that is my Guess.

Did you follow the step by step procedures -- *HERE*


----------



## linetest

That is the guide I am using, but thought the WDIDLE program is run before anything else. (?) The drive is brand new from Newegg so I don't think it is formatted for anything yet. Should I run WinMFS to create a blank image and then WDIDLE? Doing that I assume I would have to run WinMFS again as I am doing the IDLE procedure ahead of taking my Tivo apart (this weekend). I have a Series 3 and was going to do a full copy from my old drive since it is healthy but small in capacity.


----------



## drhankz

linetest said:


> That is the guide I am using, but thought the WDIDLE program is run before anything else. (?) The drive is brand new from Newegg so I don't think it is formatted for anything yet. Should I run WinMFS to create a blank image and then WDIDLE? Doing that I assume I would have to run WinMFS again as I am doing the IDLE procedure ahead of taking my Tivo apart (this weekend). I have a Series 3 and was going to do a full copy from my old drive since it is healthy but small in capacity.


I'm sure it has some format. I would run WinMFS and follow all the steps
in the procedure and run Wdidle last.


----------



## husky55

linetest said:


> That is the guide I am using, but thought the WDIDLE program is run before anything else. (?) The drive is brand new from Newegg so I don't think it is formatted for anything yet. Should I run WinMFS to create a blank image and then WDIDLE? Doing that I assume I would have to run WinMFS again as I am doing the IDLE procedure ahead of taking my Tivo apart (this weekend). I have a Series 3 and was going to do a full copy from my old drive since it is healthy but small in capacity.


"This procedure has no affect on the TiVo software, settings, or recordings on the drive, so it can be performed before or after a backup and restore."

Direct quote from the guide. Did you burn the ISO file with Imgburn?


----------



## linetest

I used Active ISO Burner to make the CD.


----------



## richsadams

jlib said:


> I like the way richadams summed up the whole 24x7 thing in the parallel Premier upgrade thread as being merely a marketing gambit, although it is really even less than that since they don't actually certify anything.


Oooooo...be careful about those sorts of things. You get what you pay for here.  Just to be clear, I think you're referring to this post, and what I was saying is that it's not so much marketing (although "certified 24/7" is a marketing term) but more importantly that TiVo just can't take advantage of WD's dedicated AV drive features. Having the AAM already at the lowest/quietest setting is a plus however. :up:


----------



## richsadams

husky55 said:


> I have had a Hitachi HD (not on the recommended list) with my HD for over a year now and it still ticking.


TICKING?!  Hard drive ticking is _bad_! But I get it.


----------



## richsadams

linetest said:


> I just unpacked a new WD10EVDS drive and hooked it up to a PC to run WDIDLE since the drive had a birthday of 23 Aug 10. When I ran WDIDLE, it shows "Timer enabled and set to 8.0 seconds". Now what on earth could I be doing wrong with something so easy?
> 
> *Edit, I should note...When I first booted the CD it only showed FreeDOS OEM Bootable CD-ROM and a "C" prompt. No other message. So I ran WDIDLE3 from the prompt and that is when I got the above message.


I don't think you're doing anything wrong...that's the default timer's setting. You need to follow the directions and run the command to change it ("wdidle3 /D" or if that doesn't work "wdidle3 /S300" - w/o the quotes). After a short time it will come back showing the new setting...300 seconds, etc.

FWIW you can run wdidle3.exe at any time as it only affects the drive's firmware, not any data.


----------



## linetest

Well Bam! Just like that. Running wdidle3 with the /D switch did it. I had not seen any mention of using switches, so very valuable info for me. Thanks !!!!!


----------



## husky55

richsadams said:


> TICKING?!  Hard drive ticking is _bad_! But I get it.


LOL!!! I mean the ticker is ticking!!! Not the HD.


----------



## tcfcameron

richsadams said:


> I don't think you're doing anything wrong...that's the default timer's setting. You need to follow the directions and run the command to change it ("wdidle3 /D" or if that doesn't work "wdidle3 /300" - w/o the quotes). After a short time it will come back showing the new setting...300 seconds, etc.
> 
> FWIW you can run wdidle3.exe at any time as it only affects the drive's firmware, not any data.


The correct syntax is: WDIDLE3 /S300
(note the S that was missing in the above quote)

Other switches:
/D - Disable - no longer works in most cases

/R - Report current timer

/? - This help info

I'd suggest using caps lock when using the tool. There have been reports of lower-case commands not giving the expected results.


----------



## linetest

Since I had the drive on the bench, I ran WDIDLE3 /S300 and it reset the drive to 300 seconds (5 minutes). I ran WDIDLE3 /d and it went back to 3720 seconds (62 minutes). At least one worked for me.


----------



## tcfcameron

linetest said:


> Since I had the drive on the bench, I ran WDIDLE3 /S300 and it reset the drive to 300 seconds (5 minutes). I ran WDIDLE3 /d and it went back to 3720 seconds (62 minutes).


I'd advise going with the 5 minute timer setting, as there truly is no advantage in a TiVo application, to setting it higher or disabling it.

Also, some revisions of the utility produce different results if you don't use UPPERCASE for the command line switches.


----------



## tcfcameron

jlib said:


> I think the best suited drive is the one that is on sale when you are buying it.


For what it's worth, if anything, I used WD20EADS GP Caviar drives in all four of my TiVo HDs. The price was right.

I set the WDIDLE3 idle timer to /S300 (5 minutes)

I disabled AAM, and even after two month's use, I can't hear the drives seeking, unless I use a stethoscope on the case.

I have had no problems that would indicate having anything to do with using these drives.


----------



## richsadams

tcfcameron said:


> The correct syntax is: WDIDLE3 /S300
> (note the S that was missing in the above quote)
> 
> Other switches:
> /D - Disable - no longer works in most cases
> 
> /R - Report current timer
> 
> /? - This help info
> 
> I'd suggest using caps lock when using the tool. There have been reports of lower-case commands not giving the expected results.


D'oh...fixed. Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

tcfcameron said:


> ... unless I use a stethoscope on the case.


Have to get me one of those...think of all of the other uses around the house!


----------



## S3-2501

As an update to my post back in September, the WD10EVDS from Amazon (manufactured on 7/26/10) that I put in my relative's TivoHD has updated from 11.0h to 11.0j without issue. WDIDLE was *not* run on this drive before installation.


----------



## Bschneider

In case anyone is interested.. I just installed a WD1002FAEX (7200rpm w/ 5 year warranty) without any issues so far in my Series3.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...36533&cm_re=WD1002FAEX-_-22-136-533-_-Product


----------



## tvhank

Can someone help me get the Broflovski 2tb image?

Help on my part:
Newegg WD20EARS for 94.99 with promo code: EMCZYNT52. Good till 11/1/2010.


----------



## dougdingle

> Originally Posted by dougdingle:
> 
> I have an S3 with the original (250 gig?) internal drive, and an external 1 TB drive.
> 
> Is it possible to upgrade the internal 250 to a 1 TB drive (for a total of internal+external of 2 TB) without losing the shows?





richsadams said:


> Unfortunately the answer is no with respect to the recordings. However you can transfer any non-copy protected recordings to your computer using TiVo Desktop, KTTMG or one of the other third-party programs and then return them to your "new" TiVo after the upgrade.
> 
> After upgrading the internal drive your external drive can no longer be connected via plug and play, however you can use it if you marry or "bless" the external drive during the upgrade process.
> 
> All of the info for everything you want to do is included in the FAQ, but as mentioned in the previous post, don't hesitate to ask any questions that might arise.


OK, taking a different tack, can I upgrade my factory internal 250+external 1 gig to a pair of new 1 gig drives and preserve shows and settings?

The documentation in MFSLIVE and WINMFS both seem to imply this is possible, but a direct query to Spike on mfs.org resulted in a terse "No".


----------



## richsadams

dougdingle said:


> OK, taking a different tack, can I upgrade my factory internal 250+external 1 gig to a pair of new 1 gig drives and preserve shows and settings?
> 
> The documentation in MFSLIVE and WINMFS both seem to imply this is possible, but a direct query to Spike on mfs.org resulted in a terse "No".


Unfortunately Spike is right, it's still a no-go. The size of the drive(s) doesn't matter, so there's really no difference. The maximum combined internal + external capacity for TiVo is 2.2TB's so you could put two 1TB drives into service, but the earlier advice would remain the same.

Folks are often confused by Question 15 in Section IV of the FAQ...



> *Can I backup the recordings on my internal drive and eSATA drive and restore it to a single, larger internal hard drive?*
> 
> Yes, but only if you originally married the eSATA drive using WinMFS. If you used the External Storage menu, then you cannot copy the recordings from an internal+external setup to a single internal drive.


The key is the last sentence which refers to a normal plug and pray eSATA drive setup such as you have. Sorry 'bout that.

FWIW, although it won't help your desire to keep your recordings, if you're set on having a 2TB TiVo my recommendation would be to buy a pre-imaged 2TB drive from one of the third-party vendors like DVRUpgrade, Weaknees or DVRDude on ebay. That will give you the recording space you're looking for and remove one of the fail points. You could always re-purpose your 1TB eSATA drive...or sell it...on ebay!


----------



## klyde

I have 2 HD tivos. Today I attempted to put replace the 160gb with a 500GB. I first tried the latest WinMFS and every time I tried copying the old drive and it got to expand the drive it crashed. So next I burned a mfs iso and booted from it but when I tried to copy the drive it said it would take 6 hours even though I did the short method not copying the recorded shows. Next I tried to restore the backup of the 160gb from the backup I made with WinMFS. When I put it in the Tivo it booted all the way through but did not play the welcom video and when i hit menue it worked but if I selected anything it reboots.

Any Ideas?


----------



## richsadams

klyde said:


> I have 2 HD tivos. Today I attempted to put replace the 160gb with a 500GB. I first tried the latest WinMFS and every time I tried copying the old drive and it got to expand the drive it crashed. So next I burned a mfs iso and booted from it but when I tried to copy the drive it said it would take 6 hours even though I did the short method not copying the recorded shows. Next I tried to restore the backup of the 160gb from the backup I made with WinMFS. When I put it in the Tivo it booted all the way through but did not play the welcom video and when i hit menue it worked but if I selected anything it reboots.
> 
> Any Ideas?


It sounds like it could be a couple of things. Either the image you have may be corrupted somehow or the drive you're using for the upgrade may be a little dodgy.

You could try starting from scratch to see if things improve...even trying your other TiVo's image.

What drive are you using? Did you happen to run an extended drive diagnostic (read/write/read) such as Western Digital's Lifeguard to ensure there are no bad sectors or other issues before upgrading?

BTW, when you say that you have two "HD TiVo's", exactly which model do you have, the original Series3 the TiVo HD or TiVo Premiere?


----------



## dougdingle

richsadams said:


> Unfortunately Spike is right, it's still a no-go.


Rich, I'm not trying to be obtuse, but would like to figure out why it is not possible to take an internal original 250 plus an external 1 gig, and copy everything to a new internal 1 gig plus a new external 1 gig.

To be clear, I don't care about reusing the two old drives, I want two new 1 gig drives with all my recordings and settings intact.

Spike's MFSlive Interactive Command Generator v1.4 accepts the configuration of "internal 250, external 1 gig, copy to new internal 1 gig plus new external 1 gig, preserve recordings" and generates a command line to do it:

*backup -qTao - /dev/sda /dev/sdb | restore -s 128 -exzi - /dev/sdc /dev/sdd *

hence my confusion at being told it's not possible...


----------



## klyde

richsadams said:


> It sounds like it could be a couple of things. Either the image you have may be corrupted somehow or the drive you're using for the upgrade may be a little dodgy.
> 
> You could try starting from scratch to see if things improve...even trying your other TiVo's image.
> 
> What drive are you using? Did you happen to run an extended drive diagnostic (read/write/read) such as Western Digital's Lifeguard to ensure there are no bad sectors or other issues before upgrading?
> 
> BTW, when you say that you have two "HD TiVo's", exactly which model do you have, the original Series3 the TiVo HD or TiVo Premiere?


sorry 2-TiVo HD , new drive hitachi hds721050cla362 7200 rpm. Very very quiet.
no didnt run any drive check. I can do that. I wil try again later tonight.
I dont understand why the linux wfs was so slow it said it was running both fdrives in ata 33 even though they are serial ata.


----------



## richsadams

dougdingle said:


> Rich, I'm not trying to be obtuse, but would like to figure out why it is not possible to take an internal original 250 plus an external 1 gig, and copy everything to a new internal 1 gig plus a new external 1 gig.
> 
> To be clear, I don't care about reusing the two old drives, I want two new 1 gig drives with all my recordings and settings intact.
> 
> Spike's MFSlive Interactive Command Generator v1.4 accepts the configuration of "internal 250, external 1 gig, copy to new internal 1 gig plus new external 1 gig, preserve recordings" and generates a command line to do it:
> 
> *backup -qTao - /dev/sda /dev/sdb | restore -s 128 -exzi - /dev/sdc /dev/sdd *
> 
> hence my confusion at being told it's not possible...


Your current setup causes TiVo to stripe recordings across the two drives. As such, there is (currently) no way to combine that data to a single drive as MFS programs see them as two separate drives. My understanding is that when the two drives are blessed or "married" (using winMFS, etc.) they are seen as a single drive and subsequently the data can be transferred to a single drive.

Although I've never tried it (not a fan of external drives) I understand both scenarios to be true based on numerous reports here and on the MFSLive forum. Spike is the author of winMFS and there were probably hundreds of folks hoping to do what you'd like to do when the upgrade process started. So if there were a way to do it, I'm pretty confident he or someone else would have figured it out by now. IIRC Spike posted some pretty detailed information about why it wouldn't work a few years ago, but it would probably take some digging to find it now.


----------



## richsadams

klyde said:


> sorry 2-TiVo HD , new drive hitachi hds721050cla362 7200 rpm. Very very quiet.
> no didnt run any drive check. I can do that. I wil try again later tonight.
> I dont understand why the linux wfs was so slow it said it was running both fdrives in ata 33 even though they are serial ata.


Okay...that should work. Agreed, that is odd about creating a truncated backup...it usually takes a few minutes. Best of luck and let us know how it goes!


----------



## dougdingle

richsadams said:


> Your current setup causes TiVo to stripe recordings across the two drives. As such, there is (currently) no way to combine that data to a single drive as MFS programs see them as two separate drives.


There seems to be a misunderstanding here. I don't want to take two drives and replace them with a single drive.

I want to take two drives and replace them with two bigger drives.


----------



## klyde

richsadams said:


> Okay...that should work. Agreed, that is odd about creating a truncated backup...it usually takes a few minutes. Best of luck and let us know how it goes!


Well I tried again using Winmsf and turned off my virus checker and it went perfectly. 
Thank you


----------



## richsadams

klyde said:


> Well I tried again using Winmsf and turned off my virus checker and it went perfectly.
> Thank you


Ah...I always forget about that. I know it's noted in the FAQ, but it just doesn't stick for some reason. Glad to hear things are going well. :up:


----------



## klyde

richsadams said:


> Ah...I always forget about that. I know it's noted in the FAQ, but it just doesn't stick for some reason. Glad to hear things are going well. :up:


yes I read over it t he first time.


----------



## emerz

I thought I would post a quick update: It is going on seven months since I upgraded my THD with a 2TB drive using the Mr. Broflovski's image. My Tivo has not hiccuped once in the past 7 seven months and I have still not been able to fill it 

See my original post here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7861096#post7861096


----------



## Robbdoe1

I for 1 am glad to see it's working and stable for you. I have heard about this image and was curious as to how well it works.

Robb


----------



## richsadams

emerz said:


> I thought I would post a quick update: It is going on seven months since I upgraded my THD with a 2TB drive using the Mr. Broflovski's image. My Tivo has not hiccuped once in the past 7 seven months and I have still not been able to fill it
> 
> See my original post here:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7861096#post7861096


Sweet! I've never actually used it and I never saw a step-by-step "here's what you do and here's what you get" post. So I'm curious...when you perform the upgrade using winMFS do you sub the 2TB image for your original TiVo HD truncated image? If so, that creates basically a "new" TiVo which requires binding the cable cards, etc.? Also I'm assuming you can't save existing recordings? TIA for any insight!


----------



## GuysInCT

richsadams said:


> Your current setup causes TiVo to stripe recordings across the two drives. As such, there is (currently) no way to combine that data to a single drive as MFS programs see them as two separate drives. My understanding is that when the two drives are blessed or "married" (using winMFS, etc.) they are seen as a single drive and subsequently the data can be transferred to a single drive.
> 
> Although I've never tried it (not a fan of external drives) I understand both scenarios to be true based on numerous reports here and on the MFSLive forum. Spike is the author of winMFS and there were probably hundreds of folks hoping to do what you'd like to do when the upgrade process started. So if there were a way to do it, I'm pretty confident he or someone else would have figured it out by now. IIRC Spike posted some pretty detailed information about why it wouldn't work a few years ago, but it would probably take some digging to find it now.


Would you mind clarrifying something for me: I have two drives, both 1 tb, married via winMFS. Since they were married via winMFS, does that mean that I CAN preserve the recordings to a new drive(s)? And if I can, is it better to go with a single 2tb or 2 1tb as I have now?


----------



## richsadams

GuysInCT said:


> Would you mind clarrifying something for me: I have two drives, both 1 tb, married via winMFS. Since they were married via winMFS, does that mean that I CAN preserve the recordings to a new drive(s)? And if I can, is it better to go with a single 2tb or 2 1tb as I have now?


My understanding is that yes, if you used MFSTools or winMFS originally you should be able to combine the 2 1TB drives (that were blessed during the upgrade) to a single 2TB drive. IIRC you have to use the mfslive linux cd method. That said, I've never done that so I would do some research over on the MFSLive Forum to find out how to proceed. As mentioned, I'm not a big fan of multiple drives simply because there is more than one point of possible failure however if what you have is working there's probably little reason to change for change sake.

If you do go down the path of combining the two anything you can share would be welcome! TIA.


----------



## lrhorer

retiredqwest said:


> And it also says a Host Bus Adapter is required......


I wanted to double-check my facts before I responded to this bit. First of all, for the $239 price, the drive kit *includes* a little Highpoint Technologies HBA. Evidently it only comes with a low profile PCI bracket, but the HBA is included. Secondly, the HBA is only required if the system is booting off the drive and the motherboard / existing adapter does not support UEFI. My systems don't boot off high capacity drives (except of course the TiVo).


----------



## tcfcameron

emerz said:


> I thought I would post a quick update: It is going on seven months since I upgraded my THD with a 2TB drive using the Mr. Broflovski's image. My TiVo has not hiccuped once in the past 7 seven months and I have still not been able to fill it
> 
> See my original post here:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7861096#post7861096


I fill my four 2TB (WD20EADS) "Broflovski" imaged TiVo HDs quite quickly. Then, on a (menu selected) reboot, they'll go into the "GSOD loop", and I've never been able to recover. I just keep re-imaging at the rate of 1-2 times per month (spread across the four). I've swapped in spare drives and ran full diags on the drives that came out.

There has never been a problem with any of the drives. I'm wondering if 32MB cache, versus 2MB the the stock drives have, may be a factor... Perhaps data is getting lost due to the extra cache...

There has to be a better way. I used a hex editor to look at the logs (sector by sector) and found entries like "I-Node table size is 262144 entries for 200000 active nodes max" & something like "HDA9\VAR not cleanly unmounted....".

BTW: What size is your Swap partition? Did you leave it set at the WinMFS default of 128MB, or did you change it? Could you share the specifics of what drive you used, how much cache it has, etc? It would be much appreciated.


----------



## Tivogre

tcfcameron said:


> I fill my four 2TB (WD20EADS) "Broflovski" imaged TiVo HDs quite quickly. Then, on a (menu selected) reboot, they'll go into the "GSOD loop", and I've never been able to recover. I just keep re-imaging at the rate of 1-2 times per month (spread across the four). I've swapped in spare drives and ran full diags on the drives that came out.
> 
> There has never been a problem with any of the drives. I'm wondering if 32MB cache, versus 2MB the the stock drives have, may be a factor... Perhaps data is getting lost due to the extra cache...
> 
> There has to be a better way. I used a hex editor to look at the logs (sector by sector) and found entries like "I-Node table size is 262144 entries for 200000 active nodes max" & something like "HDA9\VAR not cleanly unmounted....".
> 
> BTW: What size is your Swap partition? Did you leave it set at the WinMFS default of 128MB, or did you change it? Could you share the specifics of what drive you used, how much cache it has, etc? It would be much appreciated.


This is NOT normal behavior for the 2TB image. Can you unplug and restart successfully? If so, you likely have the "idle" problem and just need to run WDIDLE on the drives.


----------



## Tivogre

richsadams said:


> Sweet! I've never actually used it and I never saw a step-by-step "here's what you do and here's what you get" post. So I'm curious...when you perform the upgrade using winMFS do you sub the 2TB image for your original TiVo HD truncated image? If so, that creates basically a "new" TiVo which requires binding the cable cards, etc.? Also I'm assuming you can't save existing recordings? TIA for any insight!


Rich,

The 2TB image is used just like an instantcake image would be used, creating a "new" tivo.

You can not save recordings; indeed would need to have CCs re-paired (unless you have a system with unpaired cards like I do  )

Usage is straight forward. Get the image (the hard part), fire up winmfs, image drive, install.

I really wish there was a way the image could be distributed without fear of reprisal from Tivo. It's a shame that more people can't have 2TB Tivo HDs.

I'd be glad to share the image if it weren't for risk of being C&D'd by Tivo. But I'm not doing anything - helpful as it may be - that may get me in legal hot water.


----------



## tcfcameron

Tivogre said:


> This is NOT normal behavior for the 2TB image. Can you unplug and restart successfully? If so, you likely have the "idle" problem and just need to run WDIDLE on the drives.


That's not it at all. All the drives had been WDIDLE3 /D (set to disabled) and also /R (verified) that it stayed that way, upon every time that I have had to hook them up to my computer.

I have also tried the /S300 (set to 5 minutes), but that makes no difference.

Also, from what I have been able to view of the system logs, the newly released 11.0j software checks the status of this setting, and has the ability to manage it now. So, if that function works properly (and also works on drives that aren't TiVo supplied), technically the need for changing the setting should be a thing of the past.

Actually, from the wording in the logs, it not only checks and sets the PM settings of the drive at every reboot, but also checks "if firmware update is required". So, I'm guessing that with the original stock drives, the TiVo can actually apply a firmware update. Exactly what this "firmware update" includes, what it changes, and what the TiVo desired settings are, are not something that I could deduce from looking at logs, via raw sector reading with a hex editor.

Perhaps this pre-boot "inquiry" that reads (and records) the drive model, serial number, PM capabilities, feature sets, firmware revision, and all the other parameters (such as cache size, maximum transfer rate, supported transfer modes, drive geometry, and so on) is causing some sort of confusion for the TiVo's kernel, causing non-TiVo-supplied, or non-officially-supported, drives to be set to parameters that don't work so well. This is just conjecture, at this point in my search for "what the deal is".

I saw that in one log instance, the kernel had set the drive to operate in PIO mode. This doesn't seem on-par with getting maximum performance, considering that the TiVo HD SATA controller supports DMA and UDMA modes.

Another observation, is that with the WD20EADS drives, sequential read and write performance drastically decreases as the drive gets to the last 1/4 of its capacity. This is performing the testing using SATA2 directly to my computer and using a wide array of drive testing/validating/torture testings tools.

If I'm in some minority, actually always running on a full drive, maybe others arent getting to that last 1/4, where the performance drops off...


----------



## RickStrobel

I offered to upgrade my friend's TiVo HD as a birthday present (labor only, he will purchase the drive). Last time I upgraded a TiVo was when I put a 1TB drive in my Series 3. I was telling him that we'd put a 2TB drive in his, not knowing about the limitations. So it looks like maybe a 1.5TB drive would be the best, simplest install. But, I can't find any recommendations about which drive to pick.

Anyone have suggestions for a good, reliable, quiet 1.5TB drive?


----------



## tcfcameron

RickStrobel said:


> I offered to upgrade my friend's TiVo HD as a birthday present (labor only, he will purchase the drive). Last time I upgraded a TiVo was when I put a 1TB drive in my Series 3. I was telling him that we'd put a 2TB drive in his, not knowing about the limitations. So it looks like maybe a 1.5TB drive would be the best, simplest install. But, I can't find any recommendations about which drive to pick.
> 
> Anyone have suggestions for a good, reliable, quiet 1.5TB drive?


Western Digital's Green Power drives are very quiet, even with the AAM turned off. If you want the closest to what TiVo uses, that would be the AV-GP line.

Unless you want to waste space, without "special" tools/images/workarounds, the largest amount of space a TiVo HD or Series 3 (non-XL) can handle is 1.2TB. So, you can either use a 1TB drive and use all of it, or you can use a 1.5TB drive and only be able to use 1.2TB of it.


----------



## tcfcameron

richsadams said:


> Sweet! I've never actually used it and I never saw a step-by-step "here's what you do and here's what you get" post. So I'm curious...when you perform the upgrade using winMFS do you sub the 2TB image for your original TiVo HD truncated image? If so, that creates basically a "new" TiVo which requires binding the cable cards, etc.? Also I'm assuming you can't save existing recordings? TIA for any insight!


Another poster already pretty much gave you the down-low on your questions.

The Broflovski image was an experiment that Mr. Broflovski shared with a few friends. He allowed his friends to share, but only if they could be trusted to keep the image from becoming a standard circulation. He never intended, nor wanted it to be "distributed".

I'm not aware of any public "instructions" provided for it, by the author, anyway.

It's a TiVo HD XL image, that has had the XL specific data stripped out of it, so that upon installation in a standard TiVo HD, it "repairs" itself, and fills in what has been stripped out.

This was necessary, as when TiVo noticed people were just putting XL images onto their non-XL units, TiVo made a change that would cause those people to run out of guide data and be unable to download it, thus bricking those units.

It had its flaws from the get-go. Once you use WinMFS to install it, you can't do a truncated backup (the backup will seemingly work, but the restore will fail). You can only do a full backup (copy), which means having to have an additional identical drive, for each TiVo, solely for the backup.

So, it can be a real PITA to work with, especially if your CableCo insists on rolling a truck, just to pair your cable card each time you install/re-install the image.

I think that Comer's tools are maturing to the point of soon finally eliminating the need for this image.

He'd probably have a solution done and tested, if he actually had a TiVo HD to work with. Anybody have a spare to donate to the cause?

I'm weary of the anecdotal reports of his current tools working with the HD. I'd rather have him be the judge of that.


----------



## RickStrobel

tcfcameron said:


> Western Digital's Green Power drives are very quiet, even with the AAM turned off. If you want the closest to what TiVo uses, that would be the AV-GP line.
> 
> Unless you want to waste space, without "special" tools/images/workarounds, the largest amount of space a TiVo HD or Series 3 (non-XL) can handle is 1.2TB. So, you can either use a 1TB drive and use all of it, or you can use a 1.5TB drive and only be able to use 1.2TB of it.


How about this Western Digital 1.5 TB Caviar Green SATA Intellipower 64 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Desktop Hard Drive WD15EARS at Amazon?


----------



## tcfcameron

RickStrobel said:


> How about this Western Digital 1.5 TB Caviar Green SATA Intellipower 64 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Desktop Hard Drive WD15EARS at Amazon?


That would be one that is closest to what many here use. The EARS line is the direct replacement (superseding model) for the EADS line, and the "advanced format technology" that makes it different hasn't been reported to be a problem here for TiVo use.

Some pay a bit more, and get the AV variety of the same. But, as it has been hashed over many times here, the extra AV features aren't utilized by the TiVo. Some argue that non-AV drives aren't meant to run 24/7, but they are the minority. Just because the the AV specs say designed for 24x7, doesn't mean the lack of that statement disqualifies the non-AV.

If you shop around, you might find an AV-GP, of the same capacity, for roughly the same price. Some people like knowing that the drive they are using was designed for AV/DVR use.

I hope this helps.


----------



## RickStrobel

Yes that does help, thanks!

Here's what I think is the drive you're referring to for $5 more:
Western Digital WD15EVDS 1.5 TB AV Hard Drive


----------



## richsadams

Tivogre said:


> The 2TB image is used just like an instantcake image would be used, creating a "new" tivo.


Thanks for that...all good info and basically what I thought. :up: I wish there were something similar for the Series3.


----------



## richsadams

RickStrobel said:


> Yes that does help, thanks!
> 
> Here's what I think is the drive you're referring to for $5 more:
> Western Digital WD15EVDS 1.5 TB AV Hard Drive


That's a very good option, especially for $5 more. If you get it (and have the patience) can you try doing the upgrade w/o tweaking the Intellipark feature (running wdidle3.exe) first to see if it will boot up and if it does if it will reboot from a menu restart? Either way could you also post the manufacture date? It would really help solidify the data on these drives. TIA.

I'm really hoping that we'll get to the point where the WD GP drives can be fully recommended without any caveats once again.


----------



## tcfcameron

RickStrobel said:


> Yes that does help, thanks!
> 
> Here's what I think is the drive you're referring to for $5 more:
> Western Digital WD15EVDS 1.5 TB AV Hard Drive


Yep, go for it, that's your best option. Definitely worth the extra $5


----------



## RickStrobel

richsadams said:


> That's a very good option, especially for $5 more. If you get it (and have the patience) can you try doing the upgrade w/o tweaking the Intellipark feature (running wdidle3.exe) first to see if it will boot up and if it does if it will reboot from a menu restart? Either way could you also post the manufacture date? It would really help solidify the data on these drives. TIA.
> 
> I'm really hoping that we'll get to the point where the WD GP drives can be fully recommended without any caveats once again.


So I'll upgrade to the new drive by using MFS Tools to copy his existing recordings, etc. Install the drive in the TiVo HD and see if it boots and will do a menu restart. If it does then that means Intellipark is not an issue? If it doesn't then I just need to boot the CD with wdidle3.exe and run it to turn off that feature, pop the drive back in the TiVo HD and it should be fine?


----------



## emerz

Wow,

I am really surprised to hear of others having issues with Mr. Broflovski's hybrid image.

As I have stated in my first post I upgrading using a Western Digital AV-GP WD20EVDS 2TB, using wdidle to set the idle time to 5 minutes.

The procedure was simple. Connect the new drive to a computer SATA port and use WinMFS to "restore" the hybrid image to the new drive.

I have never tried making backup of the imaged drive so I cannot speak to whether or not that is working.

What I do know is that my Tivo has worked 100% since the upgrade. I guess I will have to cross my fingers that it continues.


----------



## delgadobb

For those looking for an upgrade drive (with the Broflovski image or a machine that supports 2 TB) there's a great deal at NewEgg on the 2 TB Western Digital Caviar Green WD20EADS drive. You can get if for $79.99 (I just did) shipped for free, most won't have to pay tax (California will, tho). The product can be found at the link below (or you can search the model # at NewEgg):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136344

It will show up at $99.99. Then use the following code in the 'promo' field when you're in the shopping cart/checkout area:

EMCZYZX48

This should lower the price to $79.99, which was my shipped price. I'd hurry if you're interested, cuz when NewEgg has a deal like this people find out & it tends to sell out quickly. Hope this helps some of you here who have been waiting on something like this.


----------



## NYHeel

delgadobb said:


> For those looking for an upgrade drive (with the Broflovski image or a machine that supports 2 TB) there's a great deal at NewEgg on the 2 TB Western Digital Caviar Green WD20EADS drive. You can get if for $79.99 (I just did) shipped for free, most won't have to pay tax (California will, tho). The product can be found at the link below (or you can search the model # at NewEgg):
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136344
> 
> It will show up at $99.99. Then use the following code in the 'promo' field when you're in the shopping cart/checkout area:
> 
> EMCZYZX48
> 
> This should lower the price to $79.99, which was my shipped price. I'd hurry if you're interested, cuz when NewEgg has a deal like this people find out & it tends to sell out quickly. Hope this helps some of you here who have been waiting on something like this.


Quick question. What's the difference between this drive and the WD20EARS. Any reason I shouldn't go for this drive?


----------



## NYHeel

emerz said:


> Wow,
> 
> I am really surprised to hear of others having issues with Mr. Broflovski's hybrid image.
> 
> As I have stated in my first post I upgrading using a Western Digital AV-GP WD20EVDS 2TB, using wdidle to set the idle time to 5 minutes.
> 
> The procedure was simple. Connect the new drive to a computer SATA port and use WinMFS to "restore" the hybrid image to the new drive.
> 
> I have never tried making backup of the imaged drive so I cannot speak to whether or not that is working.
> 
> What I do know is that my Tivo has worked 100% since the upgrade. I guess I will have to cross my fingers that it continues.


Quick question on using WinMFS. When I do the restore, do I need to have WinMFS expand the drive (essentialy the MFSAdd function) and also have WinMfs do the Supersize. Basically steps 18 and 19 of the upgrade the internal drive instructions. Are they necessary with the Broflovski image upgrade? Thanks for the help.


----------



## richsadams

RickStrobel said:


> So I'll upgrade to the new drive by using MFS Tools to copy his existing recordings, etc. Install the drive in the TiVo HD and see if it boots and will do a menu restart. If it does then that means Intellipark is not an issue? If it doesn't then I just need to boot the CD with wdidle3.exe and run it to turn off that feature, pop the drive back in the TiVo HD and it should be fine?


Yes, yes and yes. Actually you don't need to disable Intellipark, just set it to 300 seconds/five minutes (the command is "wdidle3 /S300" - w/o the quotes) and it s/b fine. Hopefully you won't have to mess with it though. Happy upgrading!


----------



## richsadams

NYHeel said:


> Quick question. What's the difference between this drive and the WD20EARS. Any reason I shouldn't go for this drive?


The EADS is just an earlier model. For the purposes of upgrading TiVo there's no difference; both are being used successfully by folks here.


----------



## NYHeel

richsadams said:


> The EADS is just an earlier model. For the purposes of upgrading TiVo there's no difference; both are being used successfully by folks here.


Thanks. Am I more likely to have to disable intelipark if I use the EADS? I'll probably still go with the Newegg price but it may not be worth the $15 in savings over the EARS since I'd have to go to a friend to disable intelipark as i don't have a SATA based desktop. My only desktop is 8.5 years old and only has IDE drives.


----------



## delgadobb

NYHeel said:


> Thanks. Am I more likely to have to disable intelipark if I use the EADS? I'll probably still go with the Newegg price but it may not be worth the $15 in savings over the EARS since I'd have to go to a friend to disable intelipark as i don't have a SATA based desktop. My only desktop is 8.5 years old and only has IDE drives.


Rich or someone else can better answer the question about Intellipark. I thought I'd heard more recent shipments/batches have had adjustments in the firmware, but I don't know if it obviates the need to run WDIDLE.

As far as going to a friend, won't you have to do that anyways for the upgrade if you have a desktop with IDE drives? (Since the upgrade drive is SATA) Why not kill two birds with one stone & do it in the same trip? I'm guessing you'll have to use another machine for the upgrade, unless you've got some USB drive docks for SATA drives (which, BTW, I've been using for upgrades for friends/family & they make life SO much easier - no need to be constantly opening/closing computer case & installing/removing drives).

My suggestion (if above assumptions are correct) would be to get the NewEgg drive before it goes out of stock. $80 for a 2 TB WD20EADS seems like a heckuva price for a drive a lot of people here are using. If you happen to use a cashback site like FatWallet or Ebates, you can probably get about an additional 2% rebate. Hopefully I'm having a little bit of a Rich Adams moment & giving something back to the community (bows to the master).


----------



## richsadams

NYHeel said:


> Thanks. Am I more likely to have to disable intelipark if I use the EADS? I'll probably still go with the Newegg price but it may not be worth the $15 in savings over the EARS since I'd have to go to a friend to disable intelipark as i don't have a SATA based desktop. My only desktop is 8.5 years old and only has IDE drives.


It's really a crap shoot for both drives now. I would think the EADS would have an earlier manufacture date than the EARS, but you just won't know until you open the box...either one could still need it if they were built before Sept. 15th or so.


----------



## richsadams

delgadobb said:


> Rich or someone else can better answer the question about Intellipark. I thought I'd heard more recent shipments/batches have had adjustments in the firmware, but I don't know if it obviates the need to run WDIDLE.
> 
> As far as going to a friend, won't you have to do that anyways for the upgrade if you have a desktop with IDE drives? (Since the upgrade drive is SATA) Why not kill two birds with one stone & do it in the same trip? I'm guessing you'll have to use another machine for the upgrade, unless you've got some USB drive docks for SATA drives (which, BTW, I've been using for upgrades for friends/family & they make life SO much easier - no need to be constantly opening/closing computer case & installing/removing drives).
> 
> My suggestion (if above assumptions are correct) would be to get the NewEgg drive before it goes out of stock. $80 for a 2 TB WD20EADS seems like a heckuva price for a drive a lot of people here are using. If you happen to use a cashback site like FatWallet or Ebates, you can probably get about an additional 2% rebate. Hopefully I'm having a little bit of a Rich Adams moment & giving something back to the community (bows to the master).


I think you're right on...about the options, not the silly "master" thing.


----------



## linetest

I was able to finally replace my dead drive with a new WD 1TB drive using Instantcake. All the setup was completed through Tivo. It records fine. But some channels I switch to show the picture for about 2 seconds then it gives me a Cablecard gray/black screen saying to call Time Warner to activate. I have called Time Warner twice and I gave them the ID's etc they asked for. They said the numbers are correct and the cards are properly matched, but won't help any further because a part in my Tivo was replaced and that means they can only provide "limited" support. So I am stuck with about 80% of my channels. I do have a required tuning adapter hooked into the system also.
Are there any other reboot/reset/re-configure ideas I am missing?
Thanks.


----------



## Robbdoe1

linetest said:


> I was able to finally replace my dead drive with a new WD 1TB drive using Instantcake. All the setup was completed through Tivo. It records fine. But some channels I switch to show the picture for about 2 seconds then it gives me a Cablecard gray/black screen saying to call Time Warner to activate. I have called Time Warner twice and I gave them the ID's etc they asked for. They said the numbers are correct and the cards are properly matched, but won't help any further because a part in my Tivo was replaced and that means they can only provide "limited" support. So I am stuck with about 80% of my channels. I do have a required tuning adapter hooked into the system also.
> Are there any other reboot/reset/re-configure ideas I am missing?
> Thanks.


Do a hard reboot by unplugging the power cord waiting for the drive to spin down and replugging it in. See if that helps. It sounds like the Cable Cards are not paired correctly. That would be a Time Warner issue.

Robb


----------



## NYHeel

delgadobb said:


> Rich or someone else can better answer the question about Intellipark. I thought I'd heard more recent shipments/batches have had adjustments in the firmware, but I don't know if it obviates the need to run WDIDLE.
> 
> As far as going to a friend, won't you have to do that anyways for the upgrade if you have a desktop with IDE drives? (Since the upgrade drive is SATA) Why not kill two birds with one stone & do it in the same trip? I'm guessing you'll have to use another machine for the upgrade, unless you've got some USB drive docks for SATA drives (which, BTW, I've been using for upgrades for friends/family & they make life SO much easier - no need to be constantly opening/closing computer case & installing/removing drives).
> 
> My suggestion (if above assumptions are correct) would be to get the NewEgg drive before it goes out of stock. $80 for a 2 TB WD20EADS seems like a heckuva price for a drive a lot of people here are using. If you happen to use a cashback site like FatWallet or Ebates, you can probably get about an additional 2% rebate. Hopefully I'm having a little bit of a Rich Adams moment & giving something back to the community (bows to the master).


Thanks for the help. You're doing a good job. I did buy the drive from Newegg but it cost me about 86 since apparently you need to pay sales tax in NJ and despite my screen name I now live in NJ. I actually have 2 USB to SATA connectors that I used back when I initially upgraded my TivoHDs to 1TB. They worked well for me with my laptop. So the intelipark really does add the trip.

2 questions. First, if I need to adjust the intelipark, could I simply disconnect the main drive in the PC and use those cables to connect the new Tivo drive? Basically is there any reason I need the PC's main hard drive connected? I'm guessing no since the boot CD should have everything I need and I'll just make sure the bios is set to boot to the CD before the hard drive.

Second, is there any way I can use a regular Windows laptop to disable intelipark to avoid the whole "don't worry I'm not going to break your computer, just let me open it up and fool around with your hard drive" conversation with my friend? Would an IDE to SATA cable work so I can use my ancient desktop?


----------



## rxrepli

emerz said:


> Wow,
> 
> I am really surprised to hear of others having issues with Mr. Broflovski's hybrid image.
> 
> As I have stated in my first post I upgrading using a Western Digital AV-GP WD20EVDS 2TB, using wdidle to set the idle time to 5 minutes.
> 
> The procedure was simple. Connect the new drive to a computer SATA port and use WinMFS to "restore" the hybrid image to the new drive.
> 
> I have never tried making backup of the imaged drive so I cannot speak to whether or not that is working.
> 
> What I do know is that my Tivo has worked 100% since the upgrade. I guess I will have to cross my fingers that it continues.


I just wanted to confirm what has already been stated. I have used this image on 2 TiVoHD's with no problems whatsoever. I DID NOT even run wdidle3 on the 2 WD20EVDS drives I used for the upgrades! The image has the 11.0d software build. Both TiVo's have now been updated to 11.0j and are running as well as they ever did. My experience with the Mr. B image was Plug-n-Play.


----------



## emerz

NYHeel said:


> Quick question on using WinMFS. When I do the restore, do I need to have WinMFS expand the drive (essentialy the MFSAdd function) and also have WinMfs do the Supersize. Basically steps 18 and 19 of the upgrade the internal drive instructions. Are they necessary with the Broflovski image upgrade? Thanks for the help.


Using the supersize function is not necessary with Mr. B's image. If you do select the supersize function, WinMFS will give an error message "supersize failed".


----------



## linetest

Robbdoe1 said:


> Do a hard reboot by unplugging the power cord waiting for the drive to spin down and replugging it in. See if that helps. It sounds like the Cable Cards are not paired correctly. That would be a Time Warner issue.
> 
> Robb


Thanks. No change after that. Guess I'll have to take a vacation day and have them roll a truck.


----------



## richsadams

linetest said:


> I was able to finally replace my dead drive with a new WD 1TB drive using Instantcake. All the setup was completed through Tivo. It records fine. But some channels I switch to show the picture for about 2 seconds then it gives me a Cablecard gray/black screen saying to call Time Warner to activate. I have called Time Warner twice and I gave them the ID's etc they asked for. They said the numbers are correct and the cards are properly matched, but won't help any further because a part in my Tivo was replaced and that means they can only provide "limited" support. So I am stuck with about 80% of my channels. I do have a required tuning adapter hooked into the system also.
> Are there any other reboot/reset/re-configure ideas I am missing?
> Thanks.





Robbdoe1 said:


> It sounds like the Cable Cards are not paired correctly. That would be a Time Warner issue. Robb


Agreed...and TWC is obligated to provide full cable card support by law. It may require a truck roll, but they need to address the issue.


----------



## richsadams

NYHeel said:


> 2 questions. First, if I need to adjust the intelipark, could I simply disconnect the main drive in the PC and use those cables to connect the new Tivo drive? Basically is there any reason I need the PC's main hard drive connected? I'm guessing no since the boot CD should have everything I need and I'll just make sure the bios is set to boot to the CD before the hard drive.


 Yes, that should work just fine.



NYHeel said:


> Second, is there any way I can use a regular Windows laptop to disable intelipark to avoid the whole "don't worry I'm not going to break your computer, just let me open it up and fool around with your hard drive" conversation with my friend?


 IIRC someone did that and I think they were successful, but I can't find the post so it's hard to say...might be worth a try.



NYHeel said:


> Would an IDE to SATA cable work so I can use my ancient desktop?


I don't think so. AFAIK the connection needs to be direct to a SATA port. That said it might work if you were to use a PCI SATA card (like this), but still no guarantees, and for that kind of money it's probably best to just find someone with a PC that has a couple of SATA ports.


----------



## tcfcameron

rxrepli said:


> I just wanted to confirm what has already been stated. I have used this image on 2 TiVoHD's with no problems whatsoever. I DID NOT even run wdidle3 on the 2 WD20EVDS drives I used for the upgrades! The image has the 11.0d software build. Both TiVo's have now been updated to 11.0j and are running as well as they ever did. My experience with the Mr. B image was Plug-n-Play.


I always state what drive I am running in my posts about this image, and that would be the WD20EADS.

You aren't even running the same drive as I am.

I have four TiVo HDs, two of the have the older PROM revision, while two of them have the newest revision. It doesn't seem to matter. All four have ended up in the GSOD loop at least twice. The TiVos can't all be defective.

I also run a full battery of tests on each drive, after each time one ends up in a GSOD loop. I usually swap in a new drive, so that the one I take out can be validated and torture tested for 3 days.

One question that I have been trying to get answered for months, is what swap size should be used with this specific image. I even eventually created a thread on the subject:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=456053

Take note of how many replies I received: 0

WinMFS defaults to 128MB. If you clear the entry (blank) and continue, it will end up being 64MB. Whether that's what the image had, or that's just what WinMFS re-defaults to if you leave it blank, I don't know.

I have tried 1024MB, 512MB, 256MB and just now am trying 128MB.

When not speaking specifically of the Mr. B image, the most consistent data I could collect was that your swap should be 1/2 the size of your drive, in MB. I also noticed that when using Instant Cake on a 512GB drive, that it set the swap to 256MB. So, it seemed right to go with a 1024MB swap.

I asked Comer about this, and he suggested I may want to INCREASE the size. I'm of the thought that I need to decrease the size. I may find that no matter what I set it to, the problem remains. But, at least I'll have one more consideration out of the way.


----------



## tcfcameron

delgadobb said:


> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136344
> 
> It will show up at $99.99. Then use the following code in the 'promo' field when you're in the shopping cart/checkout area:
> 
> EMCZYZX48
> 
> This should lower the price to $79.99, which was my shipped price.


Thanks!

I ordered two of them. The way I'm always winding up caught in the GSOD loop, I could use more "spares" to swap in place of the ones that get borked, for whatever reason. At least I have finally mastered getting my SPs re-downloaded, instead of having to manually put them all back in.


----------



## dlfl

Take a look at this thread. I've never used IC but this thread makes it sound like a POS, at least for recent computer architectures using SATA interfaces. Is there another side to this story?

If IC has lost its viability, would a solution comprised of selling a WinMFS backup with instructions for using WinMFS to restore it be technically and legally feasible? I would think that for the TiVo HD, a backup of the 250 GB configuration combined with Clear and Delete after installation would work for any size drive up to 1 TB, correct?


----------



## tcfcameron

dlfl said:


> Take a look at this thread. I've never used IC but this thread makes it sound like a POS, at least for recent computer architectures using SATA interfaces. Is there another side to this story?
> 
> If IC has lost its viability, would a solution comprised of selling a WinMFS backup with instructions for using WinMFS to restore it be technically and legally feasible? I would think that for the TiVo HD, a backup of the 250 GB configuration combined with Clear and Delete after installation would work for any size drive up to 1 TB, correct?


I just read that thread a few minutes ago, myself. Yes, it's practically useless if you don't keep an outdated computer on-hand.

I have used Instant Cake. It's advertised as simple, easy, practically any idiot can use, type software. It truly isn't.

There are all kinds of limitations that aren't mentioned in all the things leading up to your purchase, which is non-refundable. You find out about them, in the support FAQ when you can't get it to work.

#1 My biggest peeve, that it won't work on an original stock drive. The reason, I quote "why would anybody want to restore a used and potentially buggy drive when you can upgrade". I got around this by using it on an old retired 500GB drive first, and then using WinMFS to copy it from the 500GB to the 160GB original.

#2 There is a 1TB limit for the drive you are restoring to. You also can't use a bigger drive, even if you just want 1TB usable.

#3 The hardware requirements/limitations of the computer you are using. The minimum requirements are nearly the same as the what people are finding out to be the maximum system limits.

#4 Your only recourse is to beg them to give you a credit towards an overpriced pre-imaged drive from them. (I don't know if this is even still an option).


----------



## NYHeel

bmal1 said:


> I created a dos boot cd with usb drivers that recognized usb external hard drives assigning them a lun and a drive letter if I chose. However, wdidle3 would not recognize the external drives, only internal drives. I read elsewhere of people attempting to run wdidle3 on external drives but no one had success.
> 
> I did find info in other forums (http://www.readynas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=38392&p=214564 and http://forum.synology.com/enu/viewtopic.php?p=46272&sid=7e39fa74a9e97497f7016b166fc13760#p46206 ) stating that if you have a computer that takes only IDE drives, you could use a Sata to IDE bridge board (http://www.kingwin.com/products/cate/accessories/adapters/adp_06.asp), plug that directly to the motherboard IDE cable and wdidle3 would recognize that. I have not verified this myself, but that could be an option for those without sata connections.


I found this post from early in the year. If I end up needing to disable intellipark I'm going to try the SATA to IDE bridge board mentioned here. I'll let you know how it goes.


----------



## richsadams

NYHeel said:


> I found this post from early in the year. If I end up needing to disable intellipark I'm going to try the SATA to IDE bridge board mentioned here. I'll let you know how it goes.


That would be valuable info for sure. :up:

They have them for about $8 at Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Kingwin-ADP-06-SATA-Bridge-Board/dp/B002SZDOM6


----------



## lessd

richsadams said:


> That would be valuable info for sure. :up:
> 
> They have them for about $8 at Amazon:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Kingwin-ADP-06-SATA-Bridge-Board/dp/B002SZDOM6


I tried that one from Amazon a few months ago on a DVD Humax, and it would not work, a PATA drive worked fine on the unit, I did have another type of converter I have used in the past without problems. If the Amazon SATA to PATA (per your link) is now reported to work that would be good info.


----------



## lrhorer

linetest said:


> I have called Time Warner twice and I gave them the ID's etc they asked for. They said the numbers are correct and the cards are properly matched, but won't help any further because a part in my Tivo was replaced and that means they can only provide "limited" support. So I am stuck with about 80% of my channels. I do have a required tuning adapter hooked into the system also.
> Are there any other reboot/reset/re-configure ideas I am missing?
> Thanks.


Next time you call, don't tell them a part has been replaced. It's none of their business. It's also not a reason for not supporting you, but that won't prevent the CSR from latching on to it as an excuse for getting you out of their queue.


----------



## linetest

lrhorer said:


> Next time you call, don't tell them a part has been replaced. It's none of their business. It's also not a reason for not supporting you, but that won't prevent the CSR from latching on to it as an excuse for getting you out of their queue.


I called again tonight. I must have had the weekend crew before as two calls resulted in "the cable cards are working fine". Tonight, I reached someone who cared. In fact, the first thing he found was an error on my OTHER Tivo. He reset that first. Then he immediately told me one of my cards was not matched right. He understood that "CP Auth Required" meant it wasn't working right, compared to the other TWO techs on the weekend. He fixed it and had me check some other stuff. He also is sending a truck as he found the signal level to one of my tuning adapters to be too low.
I really, really, really appreciate those that care what they do.


----------



## NYHeel

lessd said:


> I tried that one from Amazon a few months ago on a DVD Humax, and it would not work, a PATA drive worked fine on the unit, I did have another type of converter I have used in the past without problems. If the Amazon SATA to PATA (per your link) is now reported to work that would be good info.


To specify, I'm going to try one of these to disable the intellipark feature (if I need to). The only desktop I have at home is an 8.5 year old Dell that uses IDE drives so I'm hoping that the SATA to PATA bridge will allow me to run Wdiddle via my desktop. I'll let you know what happens. However, I may not actually bother if the Tivo reboots fine without running wdiddle.


----------



## lrhorer

linetest said:


> I called again tonight. I must have had the weekend crew before as two calls resulted in "the cable cards are working fine". Tonight, I reached someone who cared. In fact, the first thing he found was an error on my OTHER Tivo. He reset that first. Then he immediately told me one of my cards was not matched right. He understood that "CP Auth Required" meant it wasn't working right, compared to the other TWO techs on the weekend. He fixed it and had me check some other stuff. He also is sending a truck as he found the signal level to one of my tuning adapters to be too low.
> I really, really, really appreciate those that care what they do.


I think we all do. Unfortunately, the odds of getting someone who is clueless and doesn't care they are clueless on the other end of the phone are not as low as they should be. Give anyone in this class an excuse to hang up rather than fix your problem, and they will.


----------



## delgadobb

lrhorer said:


> Next time you call, don't tell them a part has been replaced. It's none of their business. It's also not a reason for not supporting you, but that won't prevent the CSR from latching on to it as an excuse for getting you out of their queue.


This.

Last week, during (rare) storms here Cox Las Vegas continually broadcast warning messages that effectively 'took over' the Tivo, presumably via the cable card. Twice, recorded shows I was watching at the time kicked me out to live TV (actually, baseball playoffs recording for later viewing; I didn't want to know the @#[email protected]# score ).

The programs I was watching at the time became corrupted & unwatchable. I called to complain, the Cox CSR first said the broadcast station sent those messages & they couldn't do anything. When I told him it happened multiple times on a variety of not necessarily broadcast channels, he backtracked but insisted they're required by law to send them & they just do a 'mass broadcast'. So, no adjusting for how cable cards work, it's just a blast that takes over everything, effectively crippling the Tivo until the message is finished.

Then, a couple days later, a season pass attempts to record the 2010 World Series of Poker on an HD channel. It's worked all along until now on ESPN - not a premium, unavailable or PPV channel. It doesn't record & the following message shows up in the history.

"This program was not recorded because either the Tivo HD DVR is not authorized for this channel, the program was not purchased, or the program was not available in your area."

Upon explaining this to the CSR, I'm told "we don't support that if you're not using our equipment." I reminded him I'm paying for the cable card & they're required by law to support it; based on the text provided & history of the Tivo it seems obvious the cable card either screwed up or denied Tivo the right to record it. I'm told at that point "It's a Tivo problem, we only provide the cable card & can't support third party products." Yes, but what if the cable card is the impediment? We went in circles for a while.  I asked him to note the account in case I have future problems. Of course nothing was resolved but you can bet I'll build on that if another problem arises.

Sorry, rant done. All a long winded way of saying lrhorer's right. Don't give them any excuse to try to not support you.


----------



## NYHeel

Stupid question, but when using the Mr. B image, does it make sense to do a clear and delete once it's installed?

Also, I set up one Guru guide on my Tivo (some useless SI thing) so that it should recreate my season passes. Does anyone know how long that typically takes?

Thanks for the help. I'll let you know how it all goes once I finish transferring shows from my Tivo to my computer. It's really slow. I'm getting about 7-9 Mbps on my transfers from a wired TivoHD to my laptop (same speed whether laptop was wired or wireless). It makes transferring a bunch of shows from my existing 1Tb drive very time consuming. I have to say that the speed upgrade with transfers makes me consider buying a Premiere as I transfer a lot of stuff both MRV and Tivo to go.


----------



## NYHeel

I just got my eads drive and it has a date of September 17 (or right around there, I forget). What has been the consensus on intellipark for a drive with that date? Thanks again.


----------



## dgarrick

WD EARS Update Report:
Back in January 2010 I upgraded my internal drive to 1TB on my TiVo HD Series 3 unit and added a WD10EARS in an external eSata enclosure. The Intellipark feature was successfully disabled as instructed on page 1 of this thread.

All was well (and quiet) for 10 months when the external EARS drive started making that god-awful whizzing noise driving my wife and crazy. One day last month the TiVo unit abruptly shut down only reviving itself after 3 arduous reboots later.

Enough of this! I just ordered a WD MY DVR Expander 1TB from Newegg as they are on sale today for $89 & free ship. 

I do not care if I lose my season passes & recordings (or anything) currently on the TiVo.

Now, the question is (didn't see this combo on the first page of this thread):
How to reset the upgraded internal drive and add the new My DVR Expander? 

Thanks...


----------



## lasergecko

Boy, I hate adding another post to a 228 page long thread.

I would swear that I saw a screen shot of someone who put a WD20EVDS 2GB drive into a Series 3, but now I can't find the proper search terms for whatever reason. 

A) Is that possible?
B) Is it worth the extra trouble/expense? It's a $55 difference in the cost of the drive from Amazon, but if it's flaky, I will happily "settle" for 157HD hours.

If anyone has that bookmarked, could you point me to it?

On Sunday, I got the SO3 error and Kickstart put it into the eternal GSOD loop. So, while I wait for my Premiere to arrive, I've looked into replacing the Series 3 drive and read through this thread.

I'd like to copy the old drive and program information to the new one, but will that be pointless/problematic/impossible after the SO3 database corruption?

Thanks!


----------



## retiredqwest

lasergecko said:


> Boy, I hate adding another post to a 228 page long thread.
> 
> I would swear that I saw a screen shot of someone who put a WD20EVDS 2GB drive into a Series 3, but now I can't find the proper search terms for whatever reason.
> 
> A) Is that possible?
> B) Is it worth the extra trouble/expense? It's a $55 difference in the cost of the drive from Amazon, but if it's flaky, I will happily "settle" for 157HD hours.
> 
> If anyone has that bookmarked, could you point me to it?
> 
> On Sunday, I got the SO3 error and Kickstart put it into the eternal GSOD loop. So, while I wait for my Premiere to arrive, I've looked into replacing the Series 3 drive and read through this thread.
> 
> I'd like to copy the old drive and program information to the new one, but will that be pointless/problematic/impossible after the SO3 database corruption?
> 
> Thanks!


If it is a S3 then no JMFS will not detect the S3 drive. But you can use another program called winmfs to copy and expand to a maximum 1TB drive.

If it is a THD then yes you can use JMFS. Follow this link. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968 Ignore the thread title that says it is just for a Premiere.

And if you have spare hard drive around you should try to copy it and see if that fixes the problem. Then decide if you want to want to get a larger drive.

Scotty


----------



## unitron

lasergecko said:


> Boy, I hate adding another post to a 228 page long thread.
> 
> I would swear that I saw a screen shot of someone who put a WD20EVDS 2GB drive into a Series 3, but now I can't find the proper search terms for whatever reason.
> 
> ...snip...


I think I know the page you're talking about, but I can't find it right now, either.

I'm pretty sure it's a year or 3 old.

It might have been posted on one of 3 other fora (forums) to which I think we're forbidden to link here.

email or PM me for the links


----------



## NYHeel

NYHeel said:


> I just got my eads drive and it has a date of September 17 (or right around there, I forget). What has been the consensus on intellipark for a drive with that date? Thanks again.


Just to give another data point. No soft reboot problems using WD20EADS with manufacture date of September 27, 2010.


----------



## lasergecko

I think I'll just get a WD15EVDS from Amazon, as previously mentioned for my Series 3.

Will I be able to copy from the old drive that had the bad sectors that caused the original error?


----------



## richsadams

NYHeel said:


> Just to give another data point. No soft reboot problems using WD20EADS with manufacture date of September 27, 2010.


Congrats, thanks for the valuable data point :up: and enjoy!

BTW, did you use that IDE/sata adapter?


----------



## lasergecko

The new 1.5TB drive arrived.

WinMFS keeps crashing every time I try to do anything. (Antivirus and firewall are disabled, but I can't get the computer into Safe Mode to try that.)

I can't backup the old image and I can't copy to the new drive. MFSInfo reports "Not a TiVO drive!"

Am I screwed? I don't want to waste a half TB of space on the new drive if I have to go the InstantCake route.


----------



## lrhorer

tcfcameron said:


> One question that I have been trying to get answered for months, is what swap size should be used with this specific image. I even eventually created a thread on the subject:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=456053


The swap space size is not really related to drive hardware. A good general rule of thumb for most desktop systems is about 2x the amount of RAM - less on a RAM glutted machine. If the unit eats up more swap than that it is going to be dreadfully slow. There are some applications that can eat up lots of memory, requiring lots of RAM + swap, but the apps on the TiVo don't qualify. The TiVo doesn't have a lot of sleeping apps, either, and it never hibernates. I definitely would not set more than 256M. The TiVo isn't going to use any less or more swap whether it has a 10G drive or a 10T drive.

TiVos have minimal memory (64M for an S3, 128M for a THD), but they don't have a Desktop GUI and they don't run a wide array of simultaneous applications. My S3 with 2 x 1T of drives has 128M of swap, and less than 25M is in use. My THD with a 750G drive is using less than 10M of swap.


----------



## teddyk

So I am going through external drive adding hell. I hope someone who unerstands this stuff has a minute to read this.

Bought a wd mybook av. Tried to plug and play with tivo hd upgraded with 1 TB wd drive I purchased from weakness. Didn't work. Finally, read here that it is not gonna.

Mac user. Got my virtual machine running windows. Installed winmfs. Didn't see either drive. Corrected setup so I was using administrator privileges. Now Winmfs sees the wd drive but not the my book (tried to check the box for mounted volumes).

Next ran mfslive through virtual machine. When I plug in the mybook av and tell it to mount to the virtual machine, I get a lot of data about it. When I do the same with 1tb wd, some -- but not as much -- info comes up.

The when I try to run the command to add the new drive (mfsadd blah, blah), it says "no medium found". When I check for either device, I get "no device found". 

Help.


----------



## richsadams

teddyk said:


> So I am going through external drive adding hell. <snip>


I don't think you'll be able to do what you want to do using a Windows VM since you can't change the BIOS settings. You could try using the MFSLive Linux Boot CD image instead. I'm not sure that will work either, but it's worth a shot. Read through Section IV, #10 for non-Windows blessing. Otherwise I think you'll need to bribe a friend with a Windows machine.

Hope that helps and let us know how it goes.


----------



## tcfcameron

lrhorer said:


> The swap space size is not really related to drive hardware. A good general rule of thumb for most desktop systems is about 2x the amount of RAM - less on a RAM glutted machine. If the unit eats up more swap than that it is going to be dreadfully slow. There are some applications that can eat up lots of memory, requiring lots of RAM + swap, but the apps on the TiVo don't qualify. The TiVo doesn't have a lot of sleeping apps, either, and it never hibernates. I definitely would not set more than 256M. The TiVo isn't going to use any less or more swap whether it has a 10G drive or a 10T drive.
> 
> TiVos have minimal memory (64M for an S3, 128M for a THD), but they don't have a Desktop GUI and they don't run a wide array of simultaneous applications. My S3 with 2 x 1T of drives has 128M of swap, and less than 25M is in use. My THD with a 750G drive is using less than 10M of swap.


Thanks for the info. I was just going by what others had posted, and reposted, all over the forums, that increasing the swap size proportionately to the drive size was REQUIRED to avoid getting caught in the GSOD loop, if there ever was an error on the drive that needed to be corrected.

I have a long and skilled background in computers, and this TiVo swap thing was the first time I had ever heard of going by the drive size.

I've been re-combing through the posts, and noticing that the whole drive size to swap size ratio stated with the models before the S3 and THD. I think it just got carried forward, and people like me wind up getting bad/wrong information.

One thing I do know, is that Instant Cake will produce a 256MB swap, using a 500MB drive. I had assumed that to be proof of the need to increase the swap when increasing drive size. But, maybe if I had used IC on a 1TB drive it would have still produced a 256MB swap...

What is the factory swap size for a THD, and does the THD XL use a larger size, or the same size?

So, what's the best way to "adjust the swap" on four TiVo HDs, which all have identical 2TB WD20EADS drives, but different swap sizes (w/Broflovski image)?

Can I just use identical spare drives, perform a copy operation, and set 256MB, which is smaller than the three I still have at 1024MB, and larger than the one I just imaged and used 128MB for? Will WinMFS adjust the disk allocations accordingly, still keeping the drive 100% utilized?

If I find myself having to start from scratch, in the future, due to the dreaded GSOD loops that seem to plague all my THDs, regardless of what drive I use or what the swap size is, should I consider taking a virgin stock drive and using Comer's tools to "expand" it onto the 2TB drive (and eliminate use of the Broflovski image)?

Thank You so much for actually taking the time to post something, and thanks in advance, if you can answer the questions above.
.
.


----------



## 21364guy

The 500GB Western Digital drive (WD5000AVJS) in my HD TiVo looks like it is having trouble. For several months now it has been pausing for several seconds during playback. When I replay these sections there is no problem the second time. So I'd like to replace the drive and keep my recordings. I did the original upgrade with MFS tools so I think this should be no problem. But I am looking for some advice on what is a good replacement drive.

Many of the drives listed in the FAQ seem to be unavailable. The only ones I've been able to find are one of the Seagates (ST3500321CS) and a Hitachi (0S00163). Are these the best options? Capacity doesn't matter that much to me. We have been happy with 500GB so any drive which will allow me to save my recordings would work fine. What is the best option available at this moment with 500-1000GB of capacity?


----------



## richsadams

21364guy said:


> The 500GB Western Digital drive (WD5000AVJS) in my HD TiVo looks like it is having trouble. For several months now it has been pausing for several seconds during playback. When I replay these sections there is no problem the second time. So I'd like to replace the drive and keep my recordings. I did the original upgrade with MFS tools so I think this should be no problem. But I am looking for some advice on what is a good replacement drive.
> 
> Many of the drives listed in the FAQ seem to be unavailable. The only ones I've been able to find are one of the Seagates (ST3500321CS) and a Hitachi (0S00163). Are these the best options? Capacity doesn't matter that much to me. We have been happy with 500GB so any drive which will allow me to save my recordings would work fine. What is the best option available at this moment with 500-1000GB of capacity?


If you're happy with 500GB, I'd get the WD5000AVVS...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...le-_-Hard+Drives-_-Western+Digital-_-22136524

For a little more you could go to 1TB...

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1289335110&sr=1-1

Your current drive should have a three-year warranty though. Might be worth getting an RMA from WD...

http://websupport.wdc.com/warranty/rmainfo.asp?custtype=end&lang=en


----------



## Robbdoe1

richsadams said:


> Your current drive should have a three-year warranty though. Might be worth getting an RMA from WD...
> 
> http://websupport.wdc.com/warranty/rmainfo.asp?custtype=end&lang=en


Rich,
To get an RMA from WD, will he need to run the manufacturer tests and give them a fail code?

Can those tests be destructive to disc data?

Robb


----------



## richsadams

Robbdoe1 said:


> Rich,
> To get an RMA from WD, will he need to run the manufacturer tests and give them a fail code?
> 
> Can those tests be destructive to disc data?
> 
> Robb


Good point. I've never had to return a WD drive (hope I didn't jinx anything). I'd probably go with a hardware issue...making funny noises and glitches appear kind of thing. If they demand a an error code via Lifeguard diagnostics, etc. then it would be dependent on which test. You can run the "Quick Test" without impacting the data. The extended read/write/read diagnostic writes all zeros to the drive, so everything goes bye-bye.

If it's the latter I would go ahead and buy a new drive and image it then run the tests and RMA the original and get an exchange...put it on the shelf JIC or use it for something else.

I neglected to recommend running some Kickstarts to see if things can be repaired. Oooops. I'll fix that now.


----------



## richsadams

21364guy said:


> The 500GB Western Digital drive (WD5000AVJS) in my HD TiVo looks like it is having trouble. For several months now it has been pausing for several seconds during playback. When I replay these sections there is no problem the second time. So I'd like to replace the drive and keep my recordings. I did the original upgrade with MFS tools so I think this should be no problem. But I am looking for some advice on what is a good replacement drive.
> 
> Many of the drives listed in the FAQ seem to be unavailable. The only ones I've been able to find are one of the Seagates (ST3500321CS) and a Hitachi (0S00163). Are these the best options? Capacity doesn't matter that much to me. We have been happy with 500GB so any drive which will allow me to save my recordings would work fine. What is the best option available at this moment with 500-1000GB of capacity?


As mentioned above, I forgot to ask if you had tried running some of TiVo's built-in diagnostics and repair programs called Kickstarts. If not, it might be worth a shot:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2


----------



## Robbdoe1

richsadams said:


> I would go ahead and buy a new drive and image it then run the tests and RMA the original and get an exchange...put it on the shelf JIC or use it for something else.


Agreed :up:. If he is gonna use Winmfs for the copy he will need both drives hooked up anyway. I guess he could also copy to a PC if the shows are not flagged and transfer back. Seems easier with 2 drives to me.

Robb


----------



## 21364guy

richsadams said:


> If you're happy with 500GB, I'd get the WD5000AVVS...
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...le-_-Hard+Drives-_-Western+Digital-_-22136524
> 
> For a little more you could go to 1TB...
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1289335110&sr=1-1
> 
> Your current drive should have a three-year warranty though. Might be worth getting an RMA from WD...
> 
> http://websupport.wdc.com/warranty/rmainfo.asp?custtype=end&lang=en


Thanks very much for the suggestions. I am tempted to go with the 1TB drive, but what about the warnings regarding compatibility issues with that model (WD10EVDS). Is that no longer an issue?


----------



## A J Ricaud

21364guy said:


> Thanks very much for the suggestions. I am tempted to go with the 1TB drive, but what about the warnings regarding compatibility issues with that model (WD10EVDS). Is that no longer an issue?


Just run wdidle on it and it will be fine.


----------



## richsadams

21364guy said:


> Thanks very much for the suggestions. I am tempted to go with the 1TB drive, but what about the warnings regarding compatibility issues with that model (WD10EVDS). Is that no longer an issue?


A J is referring to the possibility that some older WD drives may have a menu restart issue wherein TiVo won't reboot from a menu restart or more importantly after an upgrade without a power cycle (pull the plug and plug it back in). This was due to a "feature" of the new WD GP drives called Intellipark which is designed to save energy by parking the drive heads and going into a sleep state. Since TiVo is on 24/7 it would never be implemented, but some drives had an issue with a soft reboot/menu restart. To fix that there is a program, wdidle3.exe that can be run on the drive to extend the Intellipark "time out" to five minutes. This cures the soft reboot issue.

I say on "some drives" because it appears that WD GP drives (including the WD10EVDS) manufactured after September 15th or so no longer have this problem. The only way to find out is to image and install the drive and see if it will boot up properly with a menu restart. If it does, no problem. If it doesn't then wdidle3.exe needs to be run. The caveat is that the new drive must be connected to a SATA port on the computer rather than via a USB adapter or dock for the program to work. More info/details can be found on the FAQ, Section IV, #29.

FWIW I'd still go with the WD drive. Odds are you'll get one manufactured after Sep. 15th now, but if not, it sounds like you're a pretty savvy guy and wouldn't have any issues running the wdidle program. It only takes a minute or two and most of that time is for connecting the drive and booting up the computer.

Let us know how it goes!


----------



## 21364guy

Thanks for all the info, Rich. I went ahead and ordered that 1TB drive. I don't have a standalone PC any longer. Instead I have a Mac Pro with both bootcamp (win7) and an XP image under vmware fusion. I plan to reboot into windows 7 and use WinMFS to copy everything over to the new drive. It's not clear to me if I'll be able to boot that image for wdidle3 on my Mac Pro, however. But it sounds like there is a good chance this drive won't have the issue. And if worst comes to worst I can borrow a friend's PC to make the change.


----------



## hmm52

richsadams said:


> Good point. I've never had to return a WD drive (hope I didn't jinx anything). I'd probably go with a hardware issue...making funny noises and glitches appear kind of thing. If they demand a an error code via Lifeguard diagnostics, etc. then it would be dependent on which test. You can run the "Quick Test" without impacting the data. The extended read/write/read diagnostic writes all zeros to the drive, so everything goes bye-bye.
> 
> If it's the latter I would go ahead and buy a new drive and image it then run the tests and RMA the original and get an exchange...put it on the shelf JIC or use it for something else....


Really? You've never had a WD drive fail "prematurely" on you, Rich? Clearly my purchasing abilities need a lot of work or should be tossed altogether. Are you available as an agent when I get the itch for another project (2 TB Premiere for example)? With only the HDDs for the Series 3s, my results haven't been the best - just 2.2 years for a Seagate 750GB; less than 3 months on one of the two WD10EARS installed this summer; a WD10EVDS bought in May still OK also. UPS/line conditioner in use in all cases. Can good HDD purchasing technique be learned or is it just something you're born with?

Though I've certainly used them enough, I'm not an expert on the drive mfr. diagnostic utilities. But I haven't seen that either Seagate's or WD's extended tests within Windows are destructive, except for bad sectors which may be found and isolated. Both utilities offer Write Zeros but as a discrete function with bold warnings. The instructions for the DOS WD version are similar. Your words "read/write/read diagnostic" sound like there's one comprehensive test. Have I missed it?

Both sick drives failed the extended tests in less than 30 minutes, tops. With the Seagate an error code and RMA page were generated. The Western Digital test just aborted with a message "too many bad sectors" or "too many bad sectors to repair", no redirect to RMA page. A "Certified Repaired" HDD was received from Seagate. It was setup and put into service, then worked fine until failing spectacularly one week later. The WD10EARS exchange arrived today - marked "Recertified". What exactly does that mean again? Anything like "retreaded"? "...put it on the shelf JIC or use it for something else..." Doorstop maybe? Paperweight? Coaster? I'll challenge my skepticism and put the recent exhange to the test in a series 3 nevertheless.

While I have you on the line: How enamored of the Premiere are you? I don't do many transfers so speed thereof is not a priority. My S3s are working without any glitches whatsoever so there's no compelling reason to buy one. Recent 2TB internal upgradability and current offers have my interest. Still no copy restriction with FiOS here but I'm all but sure it's just a matter of time. Recent M card paired; conditional access screen values now very different for the S cards - Subscribed, etc., etc.


----------



## richsadams

hmm52 said:


> Really? You've never had a WD drive fail "prematurely" on you, Rich?


 Fingers crossed, no WD failures over the years. I've had a few Seagate drives either go south or were DOA. Seagate used to have such high QC, but I guess that's a thing of the past. I'm also having pretty good luck with Hitachi drives these past couple of years.



hmm52 said:


> Though I've certainly used them enough, I'm not an expert on the drive mfr. diagnostic utilities. But I haven't seen that either Seagate's or WD's extended tests within Windows are destructive, except for bad sectors which may be found and isolated. Both utilities offer Write Zeros but as a discrete function with bold warnings. The instructions for the DOS WD version are similar. Your words "read/write/read diagnostic" sound like there's one comprehensive test. Have I missed it?


The "quick tests" are non-desctructive. The "extended tests", read/write/read as that implies wipes everything on the drive. Quick tests can often find the egregious problems, but if the issues are spread out/small but many, the extended tests seem to be required.



hmm52 said:


> While I have you on the line: How enamored of the Premiere are you? I don't do many transfers so speed thereof is not a priority. My S3s are working without any glitches whatsoever so there's no compelling reason to buy one. Recent 2TB internal upgradability and current offers have my interest. Still no copy restriction with FiOS here but I'm all but sure it's just a matter of time. Recent M card paired; conditional access screen values now very different for the S cards - Subscribed, etc., etc.


I dunno. If I had to make a choice between our Series3 and the Premiere...at this point in time the Series3 would win out. It's not that the Premiere is a bad machine, it's fine, but outside of a few niceties it just doesn't shine like an S3. It's a step up from a TiVo HD, but the Series3 was a pinnacle for TiVo IMHO. The Premiere's HD menus, although improved since the release, are still too slow for me...and my wife. The graphics are nice and having the "live window" and a usage meter is also nice, but it's not nice enough so we are using the SD menus. I flip back to the HD menus periodically, particularly after an upgrade to see if they're more responsive...and they have made progress, but they're still just too slow. I'll sacrifice "pretty" for speed. (Our house is hard wired with CAT5e and we have 20/5 FiOS so the network connections aren't to blame.) It also feels a little half baked with respect to the menus. Although you can do most of your day-to-day business in the HD menus, if you want to adjust the settings it defaults to SD menus. It's kind of cheesy in that sense. It s/b all HD or all SD IMO. Some folks are more than happy with it, so it may be just me. It's also been a little more glitchy than the Series3. I've had to reboot it probably once every couple of months or so due to something or other not behaving as it should. That worries me but to date no recordings have been missed, lost or damaged so I guess it's okay. It only seems to happen when I'm using the HD menus so I chalk it up to the added data management. By comparison I haven't had to reboot the Series3 in at least a year or more. Anyway, that's my dissertation on the two. I think the Premieres will continue to improve. I'll probably throw a 2TB drive in mine pretty soon so I guess I'm pretty married to it. But if it failed after the warranty runs out (I opted for 3 years)? I'd probably hunt down another Series3.


----------



## Brighton Line

I replaced my Series 3 drive with a 1TB drive but now I am having issues whcih seem to be related to hardware and the tunner. Will Tivo support help me with the non OEM drive in the series 3 or do I have to put back the old drive (update the software) before calling them?
TIA


----------



## richsadams

Brighton Line said:


> I replaced my Series 3 drive with a 1TB drive but now I am having issues whcih seem to be related to hardware and the tunner. Will Tivo support help me with the non OEM drive in the series 3 or do I have to put back the old drive (update the software) before calling them?
> TIA


Depends. TiVo "knows" that you've upgraded your drive by their logs. AFAIK first line TiVo support does not have access to these logs or at least they never look at them. If you tell TiVo support that you changed the drive out, end of story, no support. If you go ahead and discuss things with them as if nothing is different they will go through a script of suggested fixes (probably a number of which you've already tried, but you have to play along). One of the suggestions may take care of things or at least narrow down the problem.

If it goes to level two support they may or may not help you. If they take a look at their logs that can end the story...but sometimes not. It really depends on the problem and the support person.

I don't know what problems you're experiencing but it might be worth running TiVo's buit-in diagnostic and support programs called "Kickstarts":

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

Of course they only address hard drive issues and if it is indeed something else they won't help, but running them won't hurt either.

The next step I'd take is to slip the original drive back in and force an update:

1. TiVo Central
2. Messages and settings
3. Settings
4. Phone and network
5. Connect to the TiVo service now

Once the download has finished and loaded look at the "Last Status" line on that screen or in System Information and if it says "Pending restart" instead of a date your new software will automatically install at 2 a.m. your time. Or you can reboot TiVo and it will install the upgrade immediately. You will see these two screens during the reboot process when it does.

You can reboot TiVo via the menu screens:

1. TiVo Central
2. Messages & Setup
3. Restart or reset system
4. Restart the TiVo DVR

Or you can simply unplug it, wait about 10 seconds for the hard drive to spin down and plug it back in.

Then see if the issues continue. If so, I'd go ahead and call TiVo and walk through the process. That way you'll have your original drive back in so no issues there, and if it is something other than the hard drive it won't matter which drive is in place.

Let us know how it goes!


----------



## hmm52

Thanks for your dissertation on the Premiere, Rich. It would be hard to justify purchasing one in its current state of development. Too bad. I would like to like it and to think that it will meet its potential. Probably fine for someone new to TiVo or more tolerant of glitches than me; or my wife! Of course the WD10EARS failure happened quickly, while I was away for a week, and it was internal on my primary S3. Truncated copies and WinMFS are great and efficient tools, but useless at long distance. My wife was not thrilled. Watching TV directly, sans TiVo, is no longer a viable option for her so she had to use the one in the bedroom until I returned.

FWIW: Through purchasing a number of ebay S3s this summer, I was reminded that the oldest of them have an orange OLED display, rather than the familiar green. I don't know where the break point is, some time early in '07 if I were to guess.


----------



## tcfcameron

richsadams said:


> The "quick tests" are non-desctructive. The "extended tests", read/write/read as that implies wipes everything on the drive. Quick tests can often find the egregious problems, but if the issues are spread out/small but many, the extended tests seem to be required.


Just to clarify this matter:

WinDLG (Western Digital Data Life Guard Tools for Windows) offers several options.

There is only one Quick Test, which it is aptly named "Quick Test". It performs nothing more than an "Offline SMART test". The drive, or cable, would have to be in really bad shape for this test to catch anything. It takes less than 15 minutes to complete.

The "Extended Test" only verifies that every sector of the drive can be READ, and will attempt to correct any bad sectors, as well as recover the data stored in such sectors. It will prompt you if the recovery poses the potential to cause any data loss (which is somewhat of a moot point, since the sector(s) can't be read, by normal means, in the first place).

ONLY ONE TEST IS DESTRUCTIVE: "WRITE ZEROS"

It gives you ample warning about the loss of data, when you select this option, and gives you two opportunities to back-out.
.
.


----------



## richsadams

tcfcameron said:


> Just to clarify this matter:
> 
> WinDLG (Western Digital Data Life Guard Tools for Windows) offers several options.
> 
> There is only one Quick Test, which it is aptly named "Quick Test". It performs nothing more than an "Offline SMART test". The drive, or cable, would have to be in really bad shape for this test to catch anything. It takes less than 15 minutes to complete.
> 
> The "Extended Test" only verifies that every sector of the drive can be READ, and will attempt to correct any bad sectors, as well as recover the data stored in such sectors. It will prompt you if the recovery poses the potential to cause any data loss (which is somewhat of a moot point, since the sector(s) can't be read, by normal means, in the first place).
> 
> ONLY ONE TEST IS DESTRUCTIVE: "WRITE ZEROS"
> 
> It gives you ample warning about the loss of data, when you select this option, and gives you two opportunities to back-out.
> .
> .


Excellent clarification. I haven't used WDDLG for a while now and the memory isn't what it used to be.  (Or I can tell myself that it's probably been upgraded/changed over the years...the program that is, not my memory...I don't think  ) Thanks for that. :up:


----------



## unitron

richsadams said:


> Excellent clarification. I haven't used WDDLG for a while now and the memory isn't what it used to be.  (Or I can tell myself that it's probably been upgraded/changed over the years...the program that is, not my memory...I don't think  ) Thanks for that. :up:


Your memory has probably been upgraded/changed over the years, but, remember, Vista was an "upgrade" from XP, so upgrade doesn't always imply improvement. : - )


----------



## richsadams

unitron said:


> Your memory has probably been upgraded/changed over the years, but, remember, Vista was an "upgrade" from XP, so upgrade doesn't always imply improvement. : - )


Soooooo true! Don't forget Windows ME! ]]]Shudder[[[


----------



## Robbdoe1

tcfcameron said:


> Just to clarify this matter:
> 
> WinDLG (Western Digital Data Life Guard Tools for Windows) offers several options.
> 
> There is only one Quick Test, which it is aptly named "Quick Test". It performs nothing more than an "Offline SMART test". The drive, or cable, would have to be in really bad shape for this test to catch anything. It takes less than 15 minutes to complete.
> 
> The "Extended Test" only verifies that every sector of the drive can be READ, and will attempt to correct any bad sectors, as well as recover the data stored in such sectors. It will prompt you if the recovery poses the potential to cause any data loss (which is somewhat of a moot point, since the sector(s) can't be read, by normal means, in the first place).
> 
> ONLY ONE TEST IS DESTRUCTIVE: "WRITE ZEROS"
> 
> It gives you ample warning about the loss of data, when you select this option, and gives you two opportunities to back-out.
> .
> .


Good stuff man. That makes it clear.

Robb


----------



## hmm52

So what's the most thorough method to check out a drive before preparing and installing it?


----------



## tcfcameron

hmm52 said:


> So what's the most thorough method to check out a drive before preparing and installing it?


Well, that's going to bring a lot of opinions, and I'm not going to say any of them are wrong (unless somebody posts something blatantly wrong)...

A good start is to simply use the software tools that the drive manufacturer will have available for download from their website. Pretty much run all the tests, starting with the most simple, and working to the most advanced. The advanced ones can take many hours to complete (sometimes overnight)

On top of that, there are "universal" tools out there that tend to have what you could call "torture" or "burn-in" tests, that literally "give the drive a workout", by writing and reading in the most extreme ways the drive can. You can allow these types of test to run more than one pass, and also set them to run until you decide to stop the test.

It really breaks down to just how much time you are willing to spend testing the drive.

I don't have the time to find all the links, to the tools and such, and re-post them, but they are here in this thread (look toward the beginning).
.


----------



## richsadams

I usually run the most in-depth diagnostic a hard drive manufacturer's software has ("write zeros" style). IIRC the last 1TB drive I tested took about 12 hours to finish. The time frame would obviously vary depending on the size of the drive. I usually set it up to run overnight. If all is well in the morning it goes into service. There's no guarantee that something won't go wrong later of course, but it's a little peace of mind. I've only had a couple fail the test over the years. Although it's frustrating to have to return one it's certainly better than losing a lot of valuable data down the road.


----------



## hmm52

Thanks both. I should have stated that time is not a factor as long as it's unattended time. My experience with the "certified repaired" Seagate led to the question. It was run through the mfr.'s extended test overnight before being set up for an S3 - passed the test but failed a week later. I've played around with Soft Sandra, PassMark and Everest if I remember correctly - only for desktops, and it's been awhile. Drives have become so cheap. If the recertified WD fails a test, or shortly thereafter, I'll conclude that the RMA process isn't worth the aggravation, small sample size or not.


----------



## tcfcameron

richsadams said:


> I usually run the most in-depth diagnostic a hard drive manufacturer's software has ("write zeros" style). IIRC the last 1TB drive I tested took about 12 hours to finish. The time frame would obviously vary depending on the size of the drive. I usually set it up to run overnight. If all is well in the morning it goes into service. There's no guarantee that something won't go wrong later of course, but it's a little peace of mind. I've only had a couple fail the test over the years. Although it's frustrating to have to return one it's certainly better than losing a lot of valuable data down the road.


Just so you aware of it, a "Write Zeros" test (write only) may pass successfully, but if you run an "Extended Test" (read only), afterward, the drive may fail.

Why? Because the "Write Zeros" test does not include "write and verify".

That is why some of the third-party tests are so nice to have available. You can set it to read-write-verify all in one test, which you can leave running for however long you want to.


----------



## richsadams

tcfcameron said:


> Just so you aware of it, a "Write Zeros" test (write only) may pass successfully, but if you run an "Extended Test" (read only), afterward, the drive may fail.
> 
> Why? Because the "Write Zeros" test does not include "write and verify".
> 
> That is why some of the third-party tests are so nice to have available. You can set it to read-write-verify all in one test, which you can leave running for however long you want to.


The one I used, as mentioned above, was read/write/read so there's plenty of opportunity to find something wrong...but of course no guarantee a chip or something else won't fail the next day. You pays your dues you takes your chances.


----------



## bkrodgers

I've seen some people say that the AV version of the WD drives (EVDS) is worth paying more for ("only" $5 more). But I've also heard that as long as I have the know-how and the right equipment to deal with WDIDLE and AAM settings, there's no proven advantage to getting the AV version (EVDS) of the WD drives over the usually cheaper EARS or EADS versions. Right now I can get a 1.5TB EARS for $75, or a 1TB EVDS for the same $75 on Amazon. It seems like for the same price, the extra space is the way to go.

It also sounds like it may now be possible to use Comer's JMFS tool for the Premiere to use the full size of a 1.5TB or 2TB drive. I know there haven't been a lot of experimenters yet, but it sounds like several people have done it. Worst case scenario, with WinMFS I'd at least get the extra 20 hours the original drive size gave me, right? Other than (possible) drive waste and inability to use tools other than JMFS or WinMFS, there's no reason not to get a 1.5 TB drive, correct?

I thought about the 2TB EARS drive -- it was $90 on Amazon yesterday, but just jumped to $100. Still a good deal, but probably unneeded. Right now it looks to be a $10 difference between WD10EARS and WD15EARS, and a $25 difference between WD15EARS and WD20EARS. That WD15EARS at $75 is pretty darn tempting.


----------



## richsadams

bkrodgers said:


> I've seen some people say that the AV version of the WD drives (EVDS) is worth paying more for ("only" $5 more). But I've also heard that as long as I have the know-how and the right equipment to deal with WDIDLE and AAM settings, there's no proven advantage to getting the AV version (EVDS) of the WD drives over the usually cheaper EARS or EADS versions. Right now I can get a 1.5TB EARS for $75, or a 1TB EVDS for the same $75 on Amazon. It seems like for the same price, the extra space is the way to go.
> 
> It also sounds like it may now be possible to use Comer's JMFS tool for the Premiere to use the full size of a 1.5TB or 2TB drive. I know there haven't been a lot of experimenters yet, but it sounds like several people have done it. Worst case scenario, with WinMFS I'd at least get the extra 20 hours the original drive size gave me, right? Other than (possible) drive waste and inability to use tools other than JMFS or WinMFS, there's no reason not to get a 1.5 TB drive, correct?
> 
> I thought about the 2TB EARS drive -- it was $90 on Amazon yesterday, but just jumped to $100. Still a good deal, but probably unneeded. Right now it looks to be a $10 difference between WD10EARS and WD15EARS, and a $25 difference between WD15EARS and WD20EARS. That WD15EARS at $75 is pretty darn tempting.


Yes to the first part, yes to the second part and as for the third, I always go with as large a drive as I can afford (and that will work of course). You may not think you need the space now, but you will one of these days and a second upgrade will only cost you more time and money. JMFS is being used to successfully upgrade Premieres for a more than a few folks now. If your budget can afford it (and you have a Premiere) 2TB is the way to go.


----------



## bkrodgers

richsadams said:


> Yes to the first part, yes to the second part and as for the third, I always go with as large a drive as I can afford (and that will work of course). You may not think you need the space now, but you will one of these days and a second upgrade will only cost you more time and money. JMFS is being used to successfully upgrade Premieres for a more than a few folks now. If your budget can afford it (and you have a Premiere) 2TB is the way to go.


Thanks for all you do here Rich! I may not have phrased things clearly -- I have a TivoHD. I was thinking of using comer's tool that he wrote for the premier to upgrade my THD to 1.5 or 2 TB. I've seen a few people say they've done that. I saw you mention you couldn't get it to recognize an S3 drive, but I haven't seen any reports of showstoppers for THDs yet. Any thoughts?

As for 1.5 vs 2TB, yeah, I hear ya! My budget can afford it, but I still try to spend wisely. But I never thought I'd fill the 1TB in my other THD, and I did! Now that I've got an HDTV in the bedroom, where I like to have lots of History/Science channel stuff available to wind down at bedtime, I'm sure I could fill 1.5 or even 2TB with a few 25ep season passes in HD!


----------



## richsadams

There aren't as many, but several people have used JMFS to upgrade their TiVo HD's to 2TB. If you've got the spare change...that's the way to go.

Unfortunately Comer's program won't work with Series3's...something to do with different partition structures IIRC.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## 21364guy

I ran the WD diagnostics on the 500GB drive. It failed with the message below:

Quick Test on drive 1 did not complete! Status code = 07 (Failed read test element), Failure Checkpoint = 65

So I contacted WD for an RMA and will send the drive off to them shortly. In the meantime I used WinMFS to move everything over to the 1TB drive (WD10EVDS) that was recommended. It's up and running now.

Thanks for the help


----------



## richsadams

21364guy said:


> I ran the WD diagnostics on the 500GB drive. It failed with the message below:
> 
> Quick Test on drive 1 did not complete! Status code = 07 (Failed read test element), Failure Checkpoint = 65
> 
> So I contacted WD for an RMA and will send the drive off to them shortly. In the meantime I used WinMFS to move everything over to the 1TB drive (WD10EVDS) that was recommended. It's up and running now.
> 
> Thanks for the help


Glad to hear everything went smoothly. Good thing you caught the drive before it gave up completely! :up:

Enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## Xecuter2

For my Series 3, is the "Western Digital 1 TB AV-GP SATA OEM AV Hard Drive WD10EVDS" considered one of the better (or best) drives for upgrading?


----------



## richsadams

Xecuter2 said:


> For my Series 3, is the "Western Digital 1 TB AV-GP SATA OEM AV Hard Drive WD10EVDS" considered one of the better (or best) drives for upgrading?


That's a very good choice. If you have the patience it would be helpful if you could perform the upgrade, install the drive, see if it will boot up and if so if it will boot up from a menu restart. That would be valuable information to determine if your drive has the soft reboot issue (hangs at the "Welcome" screen after a menu restart). If it does hang, either at the initial boot or a menu restart you will probably need to run the wdidle3.exe program to extend the Intellipark timeout to five minutes. (See the FAQ, Section IV, #29 for more details.) It probably won't be an issue unless the drive was manufactured prior to September 15th.

If you could also give us the drive's manufacture date and how things went that would be valuable too. TIA and happy upgrading!


----------



## Xecuter2

richsadams said:


> That would be valuable information to determine if your drive has the soft reboot issue (hangs at the "Welcome" screen after a menu restart). If it does hang, either at the initial boot or a menu restart you will probably need to run the wdidle3.exe program to extend the Intellipark timeout to five minutes. (See the FAQ, Section IV, #29 for more details.) It probably won't be an issue unless the drive was manufactured prior to September 15th.
> 
> If you could also give us the drive's manufacture date and how things went that would be valuable too. TIA and happy upgrading!


I'm a little confused. You're saying Intellipark shouldn't be an issue if the drive was manufactured after about Sept. 16.

The FAQ says: 


> It also affects [...] EVDS drives manufactured since November. Drives built prior to these dates work perfectly fine; they do not exhibit the issue.


Should I be looking for a drive manufactured between Sept 16 and November?


----------



## PapaArt

Xecuter2 said:


> Should I be looking for a drive manufactured between Sept 16 and November?


The dates are Nov. 2009 to Sept 16, 2010, I believe. I just upgraded two Tivos and I needed to extend the Intellipark to 5 min. on both WD drives. Both were drives were July 2010. One would not boot on power up until I did.

PapaArt


----------



## Xecuter2

What changed with the drives made after 9/16/2010 that eliminates the Intellipark issue?


----------



## PapaArt

I am not sure. Someone with a drive after Sept. 16, 2010 could answer better
than I but it could be a change in the default setting from 8 seconds to a higher time period.

PapaArt


----------



## s2krazy

I can't believe I'm back again. After getting everything working with the new 1Tb drive (Hitachi), things have been fine for about a month and a half. Suddenly the TivoHD started freezing and rebooting. Started doing it every 1-2 hours, and then finally every 15-20 minutes. I tried running some of the kickstarts and now I'm in the infinite GSOD>Reboot>GSOD. 

Good grief! It doesn't seem like the drive has actually failed as I can still hear it. I was thinking of pulling it out and running some diagnostics on it in the PC. Will this work? Should I just re-image the Instantcake software on it? Not much to lose at this point. Any thoughts?


----------



## ThAbtO

I think InstantCake is outdated. I used WinMFS to backup and restore to a 1TB drive a couple months ago and no problems yet. (crossing Tivo's antennas.)


----------



## s2krazy

ThAbtO said:


> I think InstantCake is outdated. I used WinMFS to backup and restore to a 1TB drive a couple months ago and no problems yet. (crossing Tivo's antennas.)


Hmm, thanks for that info. I had used a copy of instant cake purchased around 9/30/10 and till yesterday it was fine. How recently has instantcake had issues?


----------



## richsadams

Xecuter2 said:


> I'm a little confused. You're saying Intellipark shouldn't be an issue if the drive was manufactured after about Sept. 16.


Ha, good catch. Per PapaArt, the FAQ hasn't been updated since August 2010, so the reference is to November _2009_. Without doing some in-depth firmware research it's hard to say what WD is doing. The initial roll-out of Intellipark caused the same issues with the TiVo HDXL's a little after they were introduced. That lasted about a month before TiVo issued a software fix. They probably know, but it's beyond the knowledge scope of most of the folks here. We're just happy that things are returning to "normal" after more than a year of this.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## richsadams

s2krazy said:


> I can't believe I'm back again. After getting everything working with the new 1Tb drive (Hitachi), things have been fine for about a month and a half. Suddenly the TivoHD started freezing and rebooting. Started doing it every 1-2 hours, and then finally every 15-20 minutes. I tried running some of the kickstarts and now I'm in the infinite GSOD>Reboot>GSOD.
> 
> Good grief! It doesn't seem like the drive has actually failed as I can still hear it. I was thinking of pulling it out and running some diagnostics on it in the PC. Will this work? Should I just re-image the Instantcake software on it? Not much to lose at this point. Any thoughts?


It does sound like a hard drive issue. You could start from scratch and see how things go, but odds are there's something up with the drive itself. Hopefully the original hard drive is still on the shelf.


----------



## tcfcameron

s2krazy said:


> Hmm, thanks for that info. I had used a copy of instant cake purchased around 9/30/10 and till yesterday it was fine. How recently has instantcake had issues?


Since the introduction of hard drives >1TB in capacity. Try anything larger, and IC won't work (at all, period).


----------



## s2krazy

s2krazy said:


> I will keep you posted. Earlier you wrote
> 
> I've found this on Amazon via BrilliantStore for $64 plus ~$10 shipping.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846
> 
> Looks pretty good to me though I've never bought from that vendor. I can't see if this drive has the "intellipark" feature,but I'm still looking. I'm guessing I'm going to be down for a week while I wait for these items. I gotta call Oceanic to see if I can rent an HD box for a short while. They'll probably bill me for a whole months rental....





richsadams said:


> If it went to a GSOD KS54 never started. You could try KS54 again, but if it returns to a GSOD and then when it reboots goes to a grey/black screen I think you've probably done all you can do. It sounds like the drive has too many problems (data corruption and/or bad sectors) to recover. You can give KS52 a shot, but I'm guessing it probably won't be successful.
> 
> If that's the case then it sounds like an investment in Instant Cake and a new hard drive is your next step. The good news is that it is almost certainly a hard drive issue and that the rest of your TiVo is healthy. You could replace the whole box, but a new hard drive will likely do the trick.
> 
> You shouldn't power cycle TiVo while it's running one of the Kickstarts, but if it's stuck on a black/grey screen you can safely pull the plug.
> 
> Let us know how things go.





richsadams said:


> It does sound like a hard drive issue. You could start from scratch and see how things go, but odds are there's something up with the drive itself. Hopefully the original hard drive is still on the shelf.


It seems like just yesterday we were going through the same issue. The original HD is gone, I could do nothing with it.

My thoughts are this: If the drive's boot sector is corrupted, then reinstalling IC can't hurt anything and possibly might solve the issue. If the drive has a bad boot sector (physical flaw) then I'm no worse off than I am now? (ie it doesn't work).

Can anyone suggest a utility I can run on the HD when it's hooked up to the PC? Or is this an unnecessary step? Should I just to IC and it either works or not?


----------



## richsadams

s2krazy said:


> It seems like just yesterday we were going through the same issue. The original HD is gone, I could do nothing with it.
> 
> My thoughts are this: If the drive's boot sector is corrupted, then reinstalling IC can't hurt anything and possibly might solve the issue. If the drive has a bad boot sector (physical flaw) then I'm no worse off than I am now? (ie it doesn't work).
> 
> Can anyone suggest a utility I can run on the HD when it's hooked up to the PC? Or is this an unnecessary step? Should I just to IC and it either works or not?


IC can't hurt anything...although it will essentially give you a "new" TiVo and you'll have to get the cable cards re-bound/re-paired, run Guided Setup again, etc.

There's actually no "boot sector" on a hard drive, it's just made up of sectors and when an image like TiVo's is written to the drive it has a boot sector (two actually). If that gets corrupted (either mechanically or otherwise - power surge, etc.) it can result in the GSOD endless reboot cycle. So it may or may not be a drive problem, but whatever it is, it's beyond TiVo's abilities to resolve it.

If there are only a small amount of sector problems they can be isolated and the drive will work normally but if there's significant sector damage or head problems, etc. there's not much you can do about it. If that were the case IC could work for a while but eventually the drive would try to write data to the bad sectors and you'd be in the same boat.

For that reason I think you're on the right path by testing the drive with the manufacturer's diagnostic program. You should be able to do that with Hitachi's Feature Tool:

http://www.hitachigst.com/support/downloads/

Hope that helps and let us know how things go.


----------



## alienagenda

just a short note.
added the following about 3 months ago as external drive to my Series3 unit and all is well. No issues to date.
the RE3 is of course an enterprise rated drive with a 1.2 Million Hour MTBF.
i have used these drives on servers for years given their incredible reliability for 24/7 access. no heat issues with the vantec and no noise.

again, i dont know if this is something the forum is tracking. not the cheapest option i assume, but if the RE3 is true to my past experience, should be free of worry for a long long time.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...re=re3_western_digital-_-22-136-313-_-Product

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...167&cm_re=vantec_esata-_-17-145-167-_-Product


----------



## richsadams

alienagenda said:


> just a short note.
> added the following about 3 months ago as external drive to my Series3 unit and all is well. No issues to date.
> the RE3 is of course an enterprise rated drive with a 1.2 Million Hour MTBF.
> i have used these drives on servers for years given their incredible reliability for 24/7 access. no heat issues with the vantec and no noise.
> 
> again, i dont know if this is something the forum is tracking. not the cheapest option i assume, but if the RE3 is true to my past experience, should be free of worry for a long long time.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...re=re3_western_digital-_-22-136-313-_-Product
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...167&cm_re=vantec_esata-_-17-145-167-_-Product


Thanks very much for that. :up: The drive is certainly overkill for TiVo, but reliability is always a good thing. IIRC a few others are using the enclosure as well. Thanks again!


----------



## s2krazy

richsadams said:


> IC can't hurt anything...although it will essentially give you a "new" TiVo and you'll have to get the cable cards re-bound/re-paired, run Guided Setup again, etc.
> 
> There's actually no "boot sector" on a hard drive, it's just made up of sectors and when an image like TiVo's is written to the drive it has a boot sector (two actually). If that gets corrupted (either mechanically or otherwise - power surge, etc.) it can result in the GSOD endless reboot cycle. So it may or may not be a drive problem, but whatever it is, it's beyond TiVo's abilities to resolve it.
> 
> If there are only a small amount of sector problems they can be isolated and the drive will work normally but if there's significant sector damage or head problems, etc. there's not much you can do about it. If that were the case IC could work for a while but eventually the drive would try to write data to the bad sectors and you'd be in the same boat.
> 
> For that reason I think you're on the right path by testing the drive with the manufacturer's diagnostic program. You should be able to do that with Hitachi's Feature Tool:
> 
> http://www.hitachigst.com/support/downloads/
> 
> Hope that helps and let us know how things go.


I went with the IC over the existing drive, and it's working. I'm trying to force the software upgrade to get the Tuning Adapter to work. It's in progress now. I didn't use any of the Hitachi tools since I got it running first.

On your comments about a potential problem with the drive, I guess it would be a good idea to Winmfs the properly formatted drive once the update is done. Would I be correct in assuming this would help me avoid the need to re-IC, bind, set season passes etc. should the drive fail again?


----------



## richsadams

s2krazy said:


> On your comments about a potential problem with the drive, I guess it would be a good idea to Winmfs the properly formatted drive once the update is done. Would I be correct in assuming this would help me avoid the need to re-IC, bind, set season passes etc. should the drive fail again?


Yes, once you have it all set up again and if all goes well you could use winMFS to create a truncated backup of your image which would include all of your SP's cable card info, etc. Always good to have.


----------



## s2krazy

richsadams said:


> Yes, once you have it all set up again and if all goes well you could use winMFS to create a truncated backup of your image which would include all of your SP's cable card info, etc. Always good to have.


LOL, I should have done it last time, but I was so happy to be up and running that I didn't want to take it all apart again. [slaps forehead]


----------



## richsadams

s2krazy said:


> LOL, I should have done it last time, but I was so happy to be up and running that I didn't want to take it all apart again. [slaps forehead]


No biggie...live and learn.


----------



## Itsme2003

I admit I haven't read the whole post, but I did read the first two pages and the last two pages. On the first pages it sounds like a Series 3 can only go up to 1.3 TB (originally a 320 GB HD). On the last two pages it sound like you may be able to use a full 2 TB. Can anyone clarify that for me?

Also, does it matter if I use a drive with 4k sectors (WD EARS) vs. one with 512 byte sectors (WD EADS)? I know that I need to run WDidle, and I know that with a 2 TB drive there are some tools I can't use. I also know that I will need to jumper the 4k sector drive.

Does it matter about 5400 rpm vs. 7200 rpm? I've seen some people say it matters and others say it does not.


----------



## richsadams

Itsme2003 said:


> I admit I haven't read the whole post, but I did read the first two pages and the last two pages. On the first pages it sounds like a Series 3 can only go up to 1.3 TB (originally a 320 GB HD). On the last two pages it sound like you may be able to use a full 2 TB. Can anyone clarify that for me?


 DIY = 1.26TB. There are third-party sellers of pre-imaged 2TB drives.



Itsme2003 said:


> Also, does it matter if I use a drive with 4k sectors (WD EARS) vs. one with 512 byte sectors (WD EADS)? I know that I need to run WDidle, and I know that with a 2 TB drive there are some tools I can't use. I also know that I will need to jumper the 4k sector drive.


 The new 4K sector format does not affect TiVo. No 2TB DIY, no jumpers.



Itsme2003 said:


> Does it matter about 5400 rpm vs. 7200 rpm? I've seen some people say it matters and others say it does not.


No need for or performance improvement w/7200RPM drives; they can run hotter as well.

FWIW you may not have to run wdidle3.exe to adjust the Intellipark timeout settings if the drive you purchase was manufactured after 9/15/10.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## unitron

If you've got Series 2 drive experience, please share it in this thread

Which 1TB drives for a TCD649080 S2 SA DT?

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=459327

over in the upgrade center.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## RickStrobel

My buddy dropped off his TiVo HD and the Western Digital WD15EVDS 1.5 TB AV Hard Drive tonight for me to perform the upgrade.

It's been a while since I've done an upgrade. Is this http://mfstools.sourceforge.net/ the right place to download the best bootable ISO for the project?

The instructions linked on that page sound a little dated and there's no mention of a TiVO HD or SATA drive anywhere. Can someone link me to some other instructions?

We want to transfer all the recordings and settings to the new drive.

Thanks!


----------



## ThAbtO

RickStrobel said:


> My buddy dropped off his TiVo HD and the Western Digital WD15EVDS 1.5 TB AV Hard Drive tonight for me to perform the upgrade.
> 
> It's been a while since I've done an upgrade. Is this http://mfstools.sourceforge.net/ the right place to download the best bootable ISO for the project?
> 
> The instructions linked on that page sound a little dated and there's no mention of a TiVO HD or SATA drive anywhere. Can someone link me to some other instructions?
> 
> We want to transfer all the recordings and settings to the new drive.
> 
> Thanks!


If you are more comfortable using Windows, you can use WinMFS instead. (less typing or mistakes)

www.mfslive.org


----------



## unitron

RickStrobel said:


> My buddy dropped off his TiVo HD and the Western Digital WD15EVDS 1.5 TB AV Hard Drive tonight for me to perform the upgrade.
> 
> It's been a while since I've done an upgrade. Is this http://mfstools.sourceforge.net/ the right place to download the best bootable ISO for the project?
> 
> The instructions linked on that page sound a little dated and there's no mention of a TiVO HD or SATA drive anywhere. Can someone link me to some other instructions?
> 
> We want to transfer all the recordings and settings to the new drive.
> 
> Thanks!


The MFS Live CD, and a guide to its use, is available at

http://www.mfslive.org/

as is WinMFS.

You use the Live CD to boot the computer, which lets you leave your Windows drive disconnected for safety. It boots to a Linux command line, unlike WinMFS, which runs on your Windows drive, but it does recognize SATA drives and USB connected drives and flash sticks.


----------



## RickStrobel

So with the MFSLive Boot CD I'd want to use this command?:



> Option 1.2 To copy everything from original size Tivo drive to another and expand capacity:
> 
> backup -qTao - /dev/hdc | restore -s 128 -r 4 -xzpi - /dev/hdd


----------



## unitron

RickStrobel said:


> So with the MFSLive Boot CD I'd want to use this command?:
> 
> Option 1.2 To copy everything from original size Tivo drive to another and expand capacity:
> 
> backup -qTao - /dev/hdc | restore -s 128 -r 4 -xzpi - /dev/hdd


I'd leave off the "q" (but not the "-") so that I could see what's going on, but I'm getting the feeling that you're in kind of a hurry (which is how I've made almost all of the mistakes I've made so far in TiVo wrangling).

That's a good way for things to go bad.

I've only had experience with Series 1 and 2 machines (don't even know if a TiVo HD is a Series 3 or 4 or something in between), but I get the feeling that with an HD you might need to use WinMFS instead of the Live CD.

You'll probably learn a heck of a lot less, but it'll probably do a better job of keeping you from screwing up.

Making a snap judgement from what I've quickly scanned here:

http://www.mfslive.org/winmfs/

you probably want to use (only if using Win MFS) mfscopy to copy everything over, and then mfsadd to utilize the rest of the space on the larger drive.

But first, with either WinMFS or the Live CD, you should make a truncated backup from the original hard drive to a safe place, just for insurance, and then do a restore from that backup to the new one with which you plan to replace it, put the new one in the TiVo in place of the original, and test it out, to make sure that you have a good backup image, and that the TiVo and the new drive are going to play nicely together.

Then you can put the new drive back in the computer and do a backup | restore (which is, I gather, what mfs copy is) and then do the mfsadd to put more MFS partitions on the new drive.

You shouldn't need to delete the backup test from the new drive before doing the full copy, it should just overwrite everything without any problem.


----------



## RickStrobel

Hmmm.... I've always used a Linux boot CD to upgrade TiVos. But, I've got a Windows Home Server box with an E-SATA port and an E-SATA drive toaster and a ton of server storage space. Maybe I'll put the original drive in the toaster, back it up to the server. Then put the new drive in the toaster and slam the image onto it.


----------



## vectorcatch

You can also try jmfs http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968. It was created for the TiVo Premiere, but if you look through some of the threads people have had luck using it to copy and expand TiVo HD images (but not the original series 3). It also lets you get past the 1TB + 160GB barrier.

The TiVo HD would need 11.0J/H already installed before the expansion can occur past 1TB. A "virgin" image with 9.x doesn't seem to work past 1TB.


----------



## RickStrobel

Thanks vectorcatch. I was just about to pull the trigger on WinMFS upgrade. After reading through the first and last part of that thread I've decided against that. Still too many unknowns and my buddy and his family are probably already having withdrawal symptoms after just one night without their TiVo, so I just need to get it done.

I ended up hooking up both drives and am running the MFScopy command right now.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

RickStrobel said:


> Hmmm.... I've always used a Linux boot CD to upgrade TiVos. But, I've got a Windows Home Server box with an E-SATA port and an E-SATA drive toaster and a ton of server storage space. Maybe I'll put the original drive in the toaster, back it up to the server. Then put the new drive in the toaster and slam the image onto it.


The Linux boot CD works fine for TiVo HD.


----------



## RickStrobel

ThreeSoFar said:


> The Linux boot CD works fine for TiVo HD.


Maybe I should try the MFSLive CD now. Any other opinions on this command: 
backup -qTao - /dev/hdc | restore -s 128 -r 4 -xzpi - /dev/hdd

Not having apparent success with WinMFS. It's been running for about 12 hours. The following screen hasn't changed for four hours:


----------



## richsadams

RickStrobel said:


> Maybe I should try the MFSLive CD now. Any other opinions on this command:
> backup -qTao - /dev/hdc | restore -s 128 -r 4 -xzpi - /dev/hdd
> 
> Not having apparent success with WinMFS. It's been running for about 12 hours. The following screen hasn't changed for four hours:


I'm not sure about the command line (haven't used that since the Hinsdale days), but I know the status screen is to be ignored. It often doesn't update at all. If you open Task Manager (or better yet, get the free Task Manager replacement Process Explorer and open it up) you'll be able to see the program's activity...unless of course it has actually frozen and you'll need to start over again.


----------



## RickStrobel

It's at 0&#37; CPU usage. There are no lights flashing on either of the toasters to indicate drive activity. Should I start over and try the same thing again?

edit: maybe I'll try it on a different machine. It's on my HP MediaSmart machine, the source is hooked up via ESATA and the destination is USB. There is a lot of activity going on with the demigrator.exe right now so maybe that's interfering. Any other machine would be USB to USB.


----------



## richsadams

RickStrobel said:


> It's at 0% CPU usage. There are no lights flashing on either of the toasters to indicate drive activity. Should I start over and try the same thing again?


I'd probably start over again. I've seen that happen once or twice. I've no idea what caused it, but when I tried it again it worked. IIRC someone had that issue once when they were conducting a full settings and recordings upgrade. Things refused to work until they settled for a truncated backup only upgrade. It seems that it might have been corrupted data or possibly bad sectors on the original hard drive...hard to say.

You might want to watch the program's progress via Task Manager or Process Explorer now and then to see how it's doing. If it stops responding somewhere along the way there might be an issue with the drive...could be either one. Hopefully the second time is the charm though.

SATA to SATA would be the ideal of course, but USB to USB might make life easier as well.


----------



## Robbdoe1

Also, a full copy can take a long time. Something on the order of hours. It all depends on how much you are copying over.

Robb


----------



## richsadams

Robbdoe1 said:


> Also, a full copy can take a long time. Something on the order of hours. It all depends on how much you are copying over.
> 
> Robb


Agreed. However Rick said he had waited 12+ hours and with no activity it sounds like the program just quit.


----------



## Robbdoe1

richsadams said:


> Agreed. However Rick said he had waited 12+ hours and with no activity it sounds like the program just quit.


I agree. I was just letting him know the full copy can take time. I was saying it in general.

Robb


----------



## richsadams

Robbdoe1 said:


> I agree. I was just letting him know the full copy can take time. I was saying it in general.
> 
> Robb


Good advice :up: ...particularly for those of us (ah-hem..._me_!) that are a little less patient than others.


----------



## s2krazy

richsadams said:


> Yes, once you have it all set up again and if all goes well you could use winMFS to create a truncated backup of your image which would include all of your SP's cable card info, etc. Always good to have.


Aloha, I did get things running again, but it still reboots occasionally. I found a WD10000CSRTL at my local Best Buy for only $79 and am going to pick it up. This way I'll be able to fuss with the Hitachi at my leisure. (guessing that I have to diddle with it using wdidle?)

I did pull it out and make an image of the drive as a back up. However, with two drives I can copy one to the other. Is this a good idea? Or would I potentially be copying the 'bad' areas of my existing drive? If this is true, would that mean that my image backup might also be problematic?


----------



## richsadams

s2krazy said:


> Aloha, I did get things running again, but it still reboots occasionally. I found a WD10000CSRTL at my local Best Buy for only $79 and am going to pick it up. This way I'll be able to fuss with the Hitachi at my leisure. (guessing that I have to diddle with it using wdidle?)
> 
> I did pull it out and make an image of the drive as a back up. However, with two drives I can copy one to the other. Is this a good idea? Or would I potentially be copying the 'bad' areas of my existing drive? If this is true, would that mean that my image backup might also be problematic?


If you're having issues I would create a new backup from your original drive and use that to image the new one.

You may or may not have to run wdidle3.exe. If the new drive was made after 9/15/10 you shouldn't have to deal with it. You may want to adjust the AAM down to 128 for the quietest operation using hddscan however.

FWIW the WD10000CSRTL is the retail version of the WD10EACS hard drive. (However, if you find something else inside the box, please let us know...you never know what WD is up to these days!)


----------



## s2krazy

richsadams said:


> If you're having issues I would create a new backup from your original drive and use that to image the new one.
> 
> You may or may not have to run wdidle3.exe. If the new drive was made after 9/15/10 you shouldn't have to deal with it.
> 
> FWIW the WD10000CSRTL is the retail version of the WD10EACS hard drive. (However, if you find something else inside the box, please let us know...you never know what WD is up to these days!)


Well, the original drive is long gone, so my choices are a)use my (suspect) back up from the 2 month old Hitachi, or b) do another round of IC, software updates, binding, season passes etc.


----------



## richsadams

s2krazy said:


> Well, the original drive is long gone, so my choices are a)use my (suspect) back up from the 2 month old Hitachi, or b) do another round of IC, software updates, binding, season passes etc.


Oh...I forgot about that. (Things become a blur after a while ) In that case I'd go ahead and create a truncated backup from the Hitachi, use that to image the new drive and see how things go. Worst case is that you have to use IC, but hopefully that'll do it.


----------



## Robbdoe1

richsadams said:


> (Things become a blur after a while )


6920 posts will do that to you. 

Make that 6919 in 1 thread.

Robb


----------



## ThreeSoFar

RickStrobel said:


> Maybe I should try the MFSLive CD now. Any other opinions on this command:
> backup -qTao - /dev/hdc | restore -s 128 -r 4 -xzpi - /dev/hdd


Sorry, I meant to address that, too.

I'd leave off the "q", as another poster had said. You can enter something larger for the -s value, I usually use -s 512. I know it may not technically be used by the OS at all, but 128M is almost nothing, and 512 is almost 4x as big (and yet still, almost nothing, % wise of your drive).

The only caveat, of course, is the get the /dev/xxx parts right. The left/backup one is the SOURCE, the right/restore one is the DESTINATION.

I am paranoid about getting it wrong. I always precede the actual backup/restore command with these. The fdisk -l will list all MBRs it sees. Do a mfsinfo on all of them. If your DESTINATION drive is empty, of course it will not have any mfsinfo result.
fdisk -l

mfsinfo /dev/hdc

mfsinfo /dev/hdd


----------



## ThreeSoFar

RickStrobel said:


> Maybe I should try the MFSLive CD now. Any other opinions on this command:
> backup -qTao - /dev/hdc | restore -s 128 -r 4 -xzpi - /dev/hdd


HEY WAIT. /dev/hdx would be PATA drives, wouldn't they? The HD requires SATA.

ANyway, on my ancient Pentium III Dell I do this on, I have a little Rosswill PCI SATA adapter. On that one, they show up as /dev/sda and /dev/sdb.


----------



## RickStrobel

Looks like it froze again, maybe even at the same spot. I counted the number of progress bar blocks in the previous screenshot and the current progress, and both are at 21.


----------



## richsadams

RickStrobel said:


> Looks like it froze again, maybe even at the same spot. I counted the number of progress bar blocks in the previous screenshot and the current progress, and both are at 21.


Did it stop responding in the Process Explorer (or task manager)?

If it's in the same spot it sounds like there's some sort of corruption on the TiVo disk. If it were bad sectors on the new disc it wouldn't necessarily stop at the same place as the writes are more random.


----------



## RickStrobel

Put it in a different machine. All drives hooked up to internal SATA connectors. Looks like it's stopping in the same spot again, 21 blocks. winmfs.exe takes very little CPU time when it's working - 0, then maybe 3 at the highest. Anyway, it's stuck again. 

I've got an unused 500 GB drive here. Thinking about trying going to it as a test. I may have better luck if I run Spinrite against the original TiVo drive. Or, maybe I'll skip trying to copy the recordings.


----------



## richsadams

RickStrobel said:


> Put it in a different machine. All drives hooked up to internal SATA connectors. Looks like it's stopping in the same spot again, 21 blocks. winmfs.exe takes very little CPU time when it's working - 0, then maybe 3 at the highest. Anyway, it's stuck again.
> 
> I've got an unused 500 GB drive here. Thinking about trying going to it as a test. I may have better luck if I run Spinrite against the original TiVo drive. Or, maybe I'll skip trying to copy the recordings.


SpinRite used to brag about being able to repair TiVo drives, so if you have it (I wouldn't buy it for just this...it costs more than a new drive!) you could give it a try on your TiVo drive. I'd certainly run a truncated backup of the basic image first.

You could easily try upgrading w/o your recordings. That could tell you if it's an issue with something other than the boot data (which I suspect it is).


----------



## RickStrobel

Stopping at the same spot on the 500 GB destination drive too. I'll try the truncated backup method with the 500 GB drive while it's all hooked up, then maybe give Spinrite an opportunity to prove itself.


----------



## RickStrobel

Tried to make a truncated backup. I started it and it said "Processing" but never did anything. In Task Manager it was using 9,900 memory, twice what it normally read. I powered off the machine and brought it back up. It did the back quite easily at that point.

Note that I didn't reboot or anything after the last hang and just went straight to the backup. Also note that each time it's failed on that machine it would never shut down all the way. After waiting for Windows to shut down for more than 5 minutes I'd have to force it off. After the good backup the machine rebooted without a fuss.

Now to test the restore to the 500 GB drive. I'm trying it with a swap size of 256 MB (1/2 the drive size in MB as I read somewhere else)


----------



## tcfcameron

RickStrobel said:


> Now to test the restore to the 500 GB drive. I'm trying it with a swap size of 256 MB (1/2 the drive size in MB as I read somewhere else)


That information has been outdated for a while, but keeps getting recycled.

128MB swap should be fine (that is the WinMFS default). 256MB should cause no problems either (that's what Instant Cake sets the swap to for THDs).

Doing like I did originally, with my THDs, setting the swap to 1024MB on a 2TB drive, may have been excessive, as well as potentially rendering the swap unusable (due to it being too large). It may also lead to corruption of the var partition (but that is just conjecture, based on my experiences with four TiVo HDs)

I'm going to recommend, as was recently recommended to me, that you limit your swap size to 256MB maximum. There are some who think that 128MB should be all that you need.

It's really more to do with proportioning the swap size to the system memory size (with any unit newer than a Series 2).

With the older units, with really small system memory sizes, the 1/2 drive size in MB, was required to recover if corruption was ever detected and brought the system into the GSOD recovery mode.


----------



## RickStrobel

richsadams said:


> SpinRite used to brag about being able to repair TiVo drives, so if you have it (I wouldn't buy it for just this...it costs more than a new drive!) you could give it a try on your TiVo drive. I'd certainly run a truncated backup of the basic image first.
> 
> You could easily try upgrading w/o your recordings. That could tell you if it's an issue with something other than the boot data (which I suspect it is).


The test restore of the truncated backup to the 500 GB drive worked fine. I put it in the TiVo and booted and confirmed the capacity.

Running Spinrite right now on the original 160 GB TiVo HD drive. It flew through the first 90% of the drive. It's been sitting at 91% complete right now and has been there for about an hour or more. It had initiated the Dynastat recovery about the time it hit that point. I'm going to let it run overnight.

I'd really like to keep the recordings on this thing.

Would a Linux boot CD be more tolerant of some faults on the source drive than WinMFS?

Could someone please give me a "copy and paste" command line to use for such a beast? I know I'd have to determine the correct source and destination drive. I'm going from a 160GB original drive to a 1.5TB upgrade drive on a TiVo HD.

Thanks!


----------



## RickStrobel

Spinrite is still at 91&#37;. I just broke the news to my buddy that they may get an upgrade without recordings.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

RickStrobel said:


> Would a Linux boot CD be more tolerant of some faults on the source drive than WinMFS?
> 
> Could someone please give me a "copy and paste" command line to use for such a beast? I know I'd have to determine the correct source and destination drive. I'm going from a 160GB original drive to a 1.5TB upgrade drive on a TiVo HD.
> 
> Thanks!


The one you had above will work fine. Again, the only risk is having the wrong source or destination, in particular if you put your TiVo drive as the destination, you'll maybe wipe it. Just don't do that. The commands I stated above help figure out which is which, I'll add another here I'd forgotten about. The dmesg output is the bootup messages from kernel, which will include information on your hard drives. The second "grep" one looks for any lines containing "/dev/".

*fdisk -l

dmesg

dmesg | grep "/dev/"

mfsinfo /dev/xxx*


----------



## MikeAndrews

RickStrobel said:


> Spinrite is still at 91%. I just broke the news to my buddy that they may get an upgrade without recordings.


Leave it alone. The guy who emailed Steve Gibson says it took over 20 days but he ended up with everything intact.


----------



## richsadams

RickStrobel said:


> Spinrite is still at 91%. I just broke the news to my buddy that they may get an upgrade without recordings.


Ugh. Well, at least you zeroed in on the problem. So your buddy s/b grateful for all of your hard work anyway...plus getting a super-sized TiVo!

BTW, I don't think using MFSTools Vs winMFS would make any difference.

Glad to know you'll be able to get back to your normal life soon!


----------



## richsadams

netringer said:


> Leave it alone. The guy who emailed Steve Gibson says it took over 20 days but he ended up with everything intact.


20 days?!!  Well...it's worth a try if they can last that long w/o TiVo I guess.


----------



## justen_m

Rich, hang in there man. You're doing good. You're helping people. Please don't stop. I upgraded my HD to 1GB, thanks to you man.


----------



## richsadams

justen_m said:


> I upgraded my HD to 1GB, thanks to you man.


Woah! Don't go blaming me for your problems.   Thanks for the kind words...just a little labor of love; trying to give back now and then.


----------



## Robbdoe1

justen_m said:


> Rich, hang in there man. You're doing good. You're helping people. Please don't stop. I upgraded my HD to 1GB, thanks to you man.


:up::up::up:

Rich is the keeper of the upgrade. I learn something new everyday lurking here. The time you take to explain and the info you provide is a Godsend. I too upgraded to 1TB with your assistance. A heart felt THANKS.

Robb


----------



## bowlingblogger

Robbdoe1 said:


> :up::up::up:
> 
> Rich is the keeper of the upgrade. I learn something new everyday lurking here. The time you take to explain and the info you provide is a Godsend. I too upgraded to 1TB with your assistance. A heart felt THANKS.
> 
> Robb


+2! I've been lurking here since I upgraded over a year ago and I keep learning too. And now I know what to do if I make the jump to the Premiere. Thanks Rich!


----------



## vectorcatch

I thought I'd post some information about a short experiment performed with JMFS and a TiVo HD. (I decided to experiment with a drive that was not being used, 320GB WD Scorpio Blue).

I started with the stock TiVo HD drive (160GB) with 11.0j installed.


Performed a copy with JMFS to the 320GB drive. (~2 hrs using ESATA docks)
Performed an expand and then a supersize using JMFS.
Placed the drive back in the TiVo HD. It booted fine, but only displayed the standard 21 hrs. 
Tried an expand again with JMFS, expand failed since it had already been done.
Tried Supersize again with JMFS, tool reported success, but again had no effect when placed back in the TiVo.
Used WinMFS to turn SuperSize on (no other modifications using WinMFS)
Placed back in TiVo and rebooted. TiVo reported 47 HD hrs. 
Trying to fill up to test extra space now to verify space actually works (seems good so far).

Some of this is a double post from the JMFS thread, but I thought it may be of interest to someone looking in this thread.


----------



## richsadams

Ah, come on guys...[kicking instep]...this is just embarrassing now.


----------



## Corran Horn

bowlingblogger said:


> +2! I've been lurking here since I upgraded over a year ago and I keep learning too. And now I know what to do if I make the jump to the Premiere. Thanks Rich!


Very much agreed. This thread really helped me out, particularly the WD Green drive Intellipark tips!


----------



## s2krazy

richsadams said:


> Oh...I forgot about that. (Things become a blur after a while ) In that case I'd go ahead and create a truncated backup from the Hitachi, use that to image the new drive and see how things go. Worst case is that you have to use IC, but hopefully that'll do it.


Utter despair sets in. I re-caked the new WD drive, wdidle'd it (July mfg date) and set everything up again. Forced the upgrades to software 11J and reset season passes. Everything was going great and I was almost ready to take the drive out to winmfs it when today it just went blank.

My wife was watching a netflix movie, and the screen just went black. No audio, no picture. The only thing on the screen was the Sony TV input designation "receiver". As a double check, I switched to the DVD and it worked fine, switched back to the Tivo and same black screen.

So I pulled the plug and... nothing. Not even the welcome screen. There is the green LED on the front and I can hear the HD ticking, and the fan is running, but there seems to be no AV output. The cover is still off cause I was planning to pull the drive, and I don't smell any burnt things, she didn't hear a cap explode or anything. Just a black screen. Considering our history with this machine, do you think it's toast (along with my lifetime sub)?


----------



## richsadams

s2krazy said:


> Utter despair sets in. I re-caked the new WD drive, wdidle'd it (July mfg date) and set everything up again. Forced the upgrades to software 11J and reset season passes. Everything was going great and I was almost ready to take the drive out to winmfs it when today it just went blank.
> 
> My wife was watching a netflix movie, and the screen just went black. No audio, no picture. The only thing on the screen was the Sony TV input designation "receiver". As a double check, I switched to the DVD and it worked fine, switched back to the Tivo and same black screen.
> 
> So I pulled the plug and... nothing. Not even the welcome screen. There is the green LED on the front and I can hear the HD ticking, and the fan is running, but there seems to be no AV output. The cover is still off cause I was planning to pull the drive, and I don't smell any burnt things, she didn't hear a cap explode or anything. Just a black screen. Considering our history with this machine, do you think it's toast (along with my lifetime sub)?


Yikes! How is your TiVo connected to your Sony TV? If it's via HDMI, can you try connecting it via component (YPbPr) or even composite? The reason I ask is that historically TiVo and certain Sony TV's have had HDCP handshake issues and what you're describing is similar to what's been reported from time-to-time. Some folks have been able to power down TiVo, power down their Sony TV, essentially making a new connection and things were good again.

Failing that, can you try connecting your TiVo to another TV to see how it does?

It's certainly possible something is up, but let's make sure it's TiVo that's misbehaving first.


----------



## s2krazy

richsadams said:


> Yikes! How is your TiVo connected to your Sony TV? If it's via HDMI, can you try connecting it via component (YPbPr) or even composite? The reason I ask is that historically TiVo and certain Sony TV's have had HDCP handshake issues and what you're describing is similar to what's been reported from time-to-time. Some folks have been able to power down TiVo, power down their Sony TV, essentially making a new connection and things were good again.
> 
> Failing that, can you try connecting your TiVo to another TV to see how it does?
> 
> It's certainly possible something is up, but let's make sure it's TiVo that's misbehaving first.


LOL , I must have early adopter syndrome My first tivo was activated in 2001 and it still works although it does not get program date it anymore (no home phone). This high definition Sony TV predates HDMI as it is currently implemented. (though I do have some computer style DV-I plugs on the back). I am hooked up via component connections for video and optical for audio


----------



## richsadams

s2krazy said:


> LOL , I must have "early adopter syndrome" My first tivo was activated in 2001 and it still works although it does not get program date it anymore (no home phone). This high definition Sony TV predates HDMI as it is currently implemented. (though I do have some computer style DV-I plugs on the back). I am hooked up via component connections for video and optical for audio


Hmmm... Can you connect it to another TV anyway? Just wondering if something is up between the two (although it doesn't sound like it is).

What happens if you slip the "old" drive back in? Does it boot up okay?

Very curious situation.


----------



## tcfcameron

The EASY way to set AAM & Idle Timer on WD drives:

I have accidentally stumbled upon an easy way to get your new WD GP or AV-GP drive(s) set up with your desired AAM & Idle Timer settings, WITHOUT HAVING TO MESS AROUND WITH YOUR BIOS SETTINGS!

1. Download the IBM/Hitachi Feature Tool v2.12 - It must be the floppy disk version, that includes an installer that creates the bootable disk. IT MUST BE VERSION 2.12.

2. Download "WDIDLE3.EXE" v1.05 (earlier versions don't work with the newest drives).

3. After creating the Feature Tool bootable disk, simply copy WDIDLE3.EXE to the same disk.

4. Forget about changing your BIOS settings (the SATA/IDE mode settings), as it won't be necessary.

5. With your WD hard drive(s) hooked up, and the floppy disk inserted, power-on your computer. Let the floppy boot up into the Feature Tool software.

6. Use the Feature Tool software to set your desired AAM setting.

7. Exit the Feature Tool software, turn on CAPS LOCK, run WDIDLE3.EXE /? from the command prompt to get the list of options. Set your desired timeout (which should be /D for "Disabled" when the drive is going to be used in a TiVo).

8. Power down, or reboot, depending on what you want to do next. These settings can be changed at ANY TIME, without affecting the data on the drive.

Why does this work? It's because the Feature Tool software loads the appropriate drivers and sets the communication mode in a way that allows changes to be made to the drive's settings.

It's very likely that this can be done with a CD/DVD or flash drive. But, I have not verified that yet.


----------



## lsitter

I hope I'm in the correct forum... I am considering ordering a 1tb replacement drive from Weaknees. Today's special is $199. My concern is that I will have to have Comcast come back out and dink around with my CableCards to get my TiVo back up and working. I have the Series 3 HD TiVo standalone.

I'm not comfortable pulling my existing drive and connecting to my desktop computer and doing all the settings myself with all the programs you all talk about. I just want to order the new drive and swap it for the old one.

Has anyone here done that with Comcast with CableCards? Did you lose your CableCard settings and have to reset all of that?

Thanks.


----------



## richsadams

lsitter said:


> I hope I'm in the correct forum... I am considering ordering a 1tb replacement drive from Weaknees. Today's special is $199. My concern is that I will have to have Comcast come back out and dink around with my CableCards to get my TiVo back up and working. I have the Series 3 HD TiVo standalone.
> 
> I'm not comfortable pulling my existing drive and connecting to my desktop computer and doing all the settings myself with all the programs you all talk about. I just want to order the new drive and swap it for the old one.
> 
> Has anyone here done that with Comcast with CableCards? Did you lose your CableCard settings and have to reset all of that?
> 
> Thanks.


Welcome to the forum! That's a fine plan for a "turn-key" upgrade so you shouldn't feel badly at all. :up:

Unfortunately you'll end up with what amounts to be a brand new TiVo. So yes, if Comcast in your area requires a truck roll to pair the cable cards that's what you'll have to arrange. Some Comcast offices are a little more progressive and will allow you to call in the cable card info for each card (which is quite simple) so you could give them a call and see if they'll do that. You may have to push them, but it's worth a try.

FWIW if you want to keep your Season Passes and Wish Lists, sign up for TiVo Guru Guide or KidZone. When your "new" TiVo connects to the Mother Ship it will eventually download and repopulate the data for you. More here...

TiVo Guru Guide: http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/mix/index.do

TiVo KidZone: http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/mix/kzindex.do

Happy upgrading!


----------



## RickStrobel

Great news! Ran Spinrite for three days and it looks like it's going to work. I was able to completely copy the 160 GB drive to the 1.5 TB drive with on errors using WinMFS and MFSCOPY.

Before I continue I have a question: Mfsadd asks if I want to limit the partition to 1 TB.









I know I won't get the full 1.5 TB of storage with the TiVo HD, but I expected I'd get roughly 1.16 TB. Should I answer yes to the question?


----------



## unitron

RickStrobel said:


> Great news! Ran Spinrite for three days and it looks like it's going to work. I was able to completely copy the 160 GB drive to the 1.5 TB drive with on errors using WinMFS and MFSCOPY.
> 
> Before I continue I have a question: Mfsadd asks if I want to limit the partition to 1 TB.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know I won't get the full 1.5 TB of storage with the TiVo HD, but I expected I'd get roughly 1.16 TB. Should I answer yes to the question?


Is 1.16 decimal Terabytes about the same as 1 binary Terabyte?

Which does MFS Tools or MFS Live or WinMFS use, binary or decimal?

Do their versions of fdisk and hdparm report that 1.5 TB drive as 1.5 or something smaller? 'Cause if the drive manufacturer called it a 1.5 it means 1.5 decimal (which is both technically correct and makes it sound bigger for the money than if it advertised it in binary numbers).

BTW, nice to hear that Mr. Gibson came through for you. Wish the price of the program wasn't more than what I'm looking to pay for the next hard drive I buy.


----------



## RickStrobel

OK, so I answered yes based on this post.


----------



## lsitter

richsadams said:


> Welcome to the forum! That's a fine plan for a "turn-key" upgrade so you shouldn't feel badly at all. :up:
> 
> Unfortunately you'll end up with what amounts to be a brand new TiVo. So yes, if Comcast in your area requires a truck roll to pair the cable cards that's what you'll have to arrange. Some Comcast offices are a little more progressive and will allow you to call in the cable card info for each card (which is quite simple) so you could give them a call and see if they'll do that. You may have to push them, but it's worth a try.


Thank you for the welcome... I've been 'observing' for years but never needed to post!

What then, should I do? Bottom line for me is I don't want to jack with the cable cards. Comcast always tries to change my billing on them (I have 4 on 2 TiVos) and half the time, they can't get all of my channels to work.

I'm even willing to lose my programs if it means I don't have to redo cable cards. Should I use Weaknees, or is it really worth my effort to do it myself following the guides here? Do any individuals here do the upgrades? I'm in the Indianapolis area.

Finally, not wanting to hijack the thread, am I in the right place with these questions?

Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

lsitter said:


> Thank you for the welcome... I've been 'observing' for years but never needed to post!
> 
> What then, should I do? Bottom line for me is I don't want to jack with the cable cards. Comcast always tries to change my billing on them (I have 4 on 2 TiVos) and half the time, they can't get all of my channels to work.
> 
> I'm even willing to lose my programs if it means I don't have to redo cable cards. Should I use Weaknees, or is it really worth my effort to do it myself following the guides here? Do any individuals here do the upgrades? I'm in the Indianapolis area.
> 
> Finally, not wanting to hijack the thread, am I in the right place with these questions?
> 
> Thanks!


Understood. If you want to keep your settings (and you can keep your recordings too) about your best bet is DIY. It's not really hard at all and if you follow the steps on the FAQ (first post of this thread) you shouldn't have any problems. It's really no more than connecting a hard drive to a computer and clicking through a pretty self-explanitory program called winMFS.

You can use a Hitachi hard drive which requires no tweaking (although it's not quite as quiet as the recommended Western Digital hard drives noted below). 
This is the Hitachi I'd recommend:

http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-Deskst.../dp/B0035WQBOY

That said, the reason the Western Digital drives fell off of the recommended list for a time was due to a "feature" WD added to their GP (green) drives called "Intellipark". This feature caused TiVo to hang on a soft reboot...which wouldn't be a big deal because you can power cycle it (pull the plug) and it reboots fine. The problem arises when TiVo pushes an update which causes the box to reboot and in this case it would hang until the owner power cycled it. To overcome this folks were using a program called wdidle3.exe which will disable Intellipark when they upgraded.

The "problem" was resolved recently so WD GP drives manufactured after 09/15/10 no longer need to be tweaked making them perfectly fine to use for upgrading again.

So if you wanted to go with a WD drive, the WD10EARS is very popular and although very quiet out of the box can also be made quieter by using hddscan to adjust the AAM down to its quietest level of 128.

Here's a link to the WD10EARS on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digita.../dp/B002U1N95K

Another popular WD drive is the WD10EVDS. It's a dedicated A/V drive with no need adjust the AAM but it does cost a little more.

Here's the link to the WD10EVDS on Amazon (I like them for their great return policy):

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digita.../dp/B002P3KO74

If it were me (and I were you), I'd probably opt for a WD10EVDS and keep my fingers crossed that the one I received was manufactured after 09/15/10. I think there's a pretty good chance of that now if you were to buy it from a reputable online retailer like Newegg, Buy.com or Amazon since all do a very high volume of business.

There's nothing wrong with the Hitachi (I have three of them, two in an NAS and one in a backup drive), I'm just concerned about them being a little noisy if they no longer allow the AAM to be reduced.

Otherwise, everything you need to know can be found on the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...60#post5616160

Hope that helps and don't hesitate to let us know if you have any more questions.

Cheers and happy upgrading!


----------



## bowlingblogger

lsitter said:


> I'm even willing to lose my programs if it means I don't have to redo cable cards. Should I use Weaknees, or is it really worth my effort to do it myself following the guides here? Do any individuals here do the upgrades?


I think the fact that you're looking at this thread qualifies you as a DIY candidate. Believe me--if I did it, you can do it! I had never even connected or disconnected a hard drive before and it went flawlessly. Luckily I didn't have to disable Intellipark on my WD10EVDS, but even that's fairly trivial as long as you can run wdidle on a PC. If you run into any snags, there are lots of people willing to help you right here in this forum. I can't think of anyone who's regretted the DIY route, and when you're done you'll be very proud of yourself!


----------



## hankbates

I have a lifetime series 3 on which the original 250gb was beginning to fail (errors when I checked the disk, freezing, etc.) so I did a truncated backup with winmfs. I tried restoring it to the original drive with no problems, even made a later backup just in case.
Then I bought a WD10evds from amazon, and when I restored either backup to it I couldn't get past the welcome screen, four lights on the front remained on.
It was manufactured about a month ago, so I guess it should have worked. It passed the WD tools short disk check, didn't want to wait for the thorough check.
I sent it back to Amazon, but now I am wondering if I should have.
What am I doing wrong, if anything? Should I look for another model, such as Hitachi?
thanks for any help you can give.
Hank


----------



## Robbdoe1

hankbates said:


> I have a lifetime series 3 on which the original 250gb was beginning to fail (errors when I checked the disk, freezing, etc.) so I did a truncated backup with winmfs. I tried restoring it to the original drive with no problems, even made a later backup just in case.
> Then I bought a WD10evds from amazon, and when I restored either backup to it I couldn't get past the welcome screen, four lights on the front remained on.
> It was manufactured about a month ago, so I guess it should have worked. It passed the WD tools short disk check, didn't want to wait for the thorough check.
> I sent it back to Amazon, but now I am wondering if I should have.
> What am I doing wrong, if anything? Should I look for another model, such as Hitachi?
> thanks for any help you can give.
> Hank


It sounds like it was hanging on bootup. I would have said to try running Wdidle3 on it to disable Intellipark. I wish you could have provided us the exact date of manufacture. Oh well.

It could also be a problem with the image you backed up being corrupted.

Do you plan on getting another replacement drive?

Robb


----------



## scottb4u

I just went through this exact situation. Use the wdidle3 to disable the parking and you'll boot right up...


----------



## hankbates

Robbdoe1 said:


> It sounds like it was hanging on bootup. I would have said to try running Wdidle3 on it to disable Intellipark. I wish you could have provided us the exact date of manufacture. Oh well.
> 
> It could also be a problem with the image you backed up being corrupted.
> 
> Do you plan on getting another replacement drive?
> 
> Robb


I do plan on getting another drive, haven't decided which.
The drive I returned showed a mfg date sometime in October 2010.
I was concerned the drive would be out of warranty once I ran wdidle3, since the wd site said only to use it on a couple of other drives.
I backed up the drive a month or so ago, then again immediately before I installed the wd10evds. Neither backup image would restore the new drive so that it would pass welcome, but when I applied the backup image to the old drive, it worked fine, and is still working a week later.
Should I go back to Amazon and get another drive? The quietness of the WD drives appeals to me. Maybe I worried too much....
Thanks, Hank


----------



## lsitter

bowlingblogger said:


> I think the fact that you're looking at this thread qualifies you as a DIY candidate. Believe me--if I did it, you can do it! I had never even connected or disconnected a hard drive before and it went flawlessly. Luckily I didn't have to disable Intellipark on my WD10EVDS, but even that's fairly trivial as long as you can run wdidle on a PC. If you run into any snags, there are lots of people willing to help you right here in this forum. I can't think of anyone who's regretted the DIY route, and when you're done you'll be very proud of yourself!





richsadams said:


> Otherwise, everything you need to know can be found on the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ:
> 
> Hope that helps and don't hesitate to let us know if you have any more questions.
> 
> Cheers and happy upgrading!


Thanks guys, you've talked me into. I was stunned to see how cheap the drives are on Amazon. I will order the WD10EVDS and go from there. Also, the link to the FAQ seems broke (I couldn't quote the link due to my low post count). I will try to find on my own...

Thanks again and Happy Thanksgiving!


----------



## lsitter

I've read through the FAQs now, really good stuff. I see that they were written in 2007 and have a question about doing the upgrade and preserving settings AND recordings:

Is it possible to just copy the original TiVo hard drive to my computer hard drive and then copy all to the new drive? My computer has a 750gb drive.

I'm trying to avoid having to connect both the old and new TiVo drives to my computer at the same time. I'm running Windows 7 Ultimate.

Thanks.


----------



## ThAbtO

lsitter said:


> I've read through the FAQs now, really good stuff. I see that they were written in 2007 and have a question about doing the upgrade and preserving settings AND recordings:
> 
> Is it possible to just copy the original TiVo hard drive to my computer hard drive and then copy all to the new drive? My computer has a 750gb drive.
> 
> I'm trying to avoid having to connect both the old and new TiVo drives to my computer at the same time. I'm running Windows 7 Ultimate.
> 
> Thanks.


I think WinMFS will work for this because the other methods says to make a boot CD, disconnect your main hard drive(s) and connect the Tivo and new drives.

When I did mine, I used WinMFS, and did not disconnect my Windows drive and booted to windows to do the backup, write the backup to CD, wrote to the new drive, back in the Tivo and started it.


----------



## lsitter

Ok, but did you save your recordings, as well?


----------



## unitron

lsitter said:


> I've read through the FAQs now, really good stuff. I see that they were written in 2007 and have a question about doing the upgrade and preserving settings AND recordings:
> 
> Is it possible to just copy the original TiVo hard drive to my computer hard drive and then copy all to the new drive? My computer has a 750gb drive.
> 
> I'm trying to avoid having to connect both the old and new TiVo drives to my computer at the same time. I'm running Windows 7 Ultimate.
> 
> Thanks.


What kind of TiVo do you have, i.e., what is the model number?

How big is your original TiVo drive?

How big is the drive with which you plan to replace it?

How many partitions do you have on your computer's 750GB drive on which you're running Win7?

Is there any unpartitioned space on your computer's drive?

What exactly is it about having the TiVo drive and drive-to-be connected simultaneously that troubles you?


----------



## lsitter

unitron said:


> What kind of TiVo do you have, i.e., what is the model number?


TiVo HD, TCD652160



unitron said:


> How big is your original TiVo drive?


20-21 hours of HD, so 160gb?



unitron said:


> How big is the drive with which you plan to replace it?


1 TB



unitron said:


> How many partitions do you have on your computer's 750GB drive on which you're running Win7?


I was wrong, it is a 600GB drive with 1 partition, as far as I can tell.



unitron said:


> Is there any unpartitioned space on your computer's drive?


I don't think so. I just did a full, new, Windows 7 reinstall and I believe I partitioned all as 1 drive.



unitron said:


> What exactly is it about having the TiVo drive and drive-to-be connected simultaneously that troubles you?


I don't know that I can connect the 2 TiVo drives as well as have my regular computer hard drive connected at the same time. Reading through the FAQ, I got the impression that all 3 drives would have to be connected at same time in order to copy over settings AND recordings because there is something (the MFS program?) that I copy to the desktop (my C drive, right?) that needs to run while doing the copy. I'm trying to avoid ordering the dual drive thing from Egghead for $42. As it is, I'm hoping I can connect 2 hard drives at once!


----------



## ThAbtO

lsitter said:


> I don't know that I can connect the 2 TiVo drives as well as have my regular computer hard drive connected at the same time. Reading through the FAQ, I got the impression that all 3 drives would have to be connected at same time in order to copy over settings AND recordings because there is something (the MFS program?) that I copy to the desktop (my C drive, right?) that needs to run while doing the copy. I'm trying to avoid ordering the dual drive thing from Egghead for $42. As it is, I'm hoping I can connect 2 hard drives at once!


On a side note: I had only had the Tivo drive connected with my Windows drive to do the backup, then replaced the Tivo with the new drive to do the restore.


----------



## unitron

TiVo HD, TCD652160

20-21 hours of HD, so 160gb?

==========================
According to TiVopedia

http://www.tivopedia.com/model-tivo-tivohd.php

you've got a 160 GB WD.

=========================

1 TB

=========================

Is this going to replace the internal TiVo drive or be attached externally, with the original drive left inside the TiVo?

=========================

I was wrong, it is a 600GB drive with 1 partition, as far as I can tell.

=========================

How much free space do you have on that drive?

=========================

I don't think so. I just did a full, new, Windows 7 reinstall and I believe I partitioned all as 1 drive.

I don't know that I can connect the 2 TiVo drives as well as have my regular computer hard drive connected at the same time. Reading through the FAQ, I got the impression that all 3 drives would have to be connected at same time in order to copy over settings AND recordings because there is something (the MFS program?) that I copy to the desktop (my C drive, right?) that needs to run while doing the copy. I'm trying to avoid ordering the dual drive thing from Egghead for $42. As it is, I'm hoping I can connect 2 hard drives at once!

========================================================

Is this dual drive thing from Egghead something for your computer or are you actually thinking of the designed specifically for a TiVo dual drive bracket thingie from Weaknees or PTVUpgrade or 9thTee or whoever?

What's the brand and model number of your computer motherboard so we can see how many IDE and SATA ports you have.

What have you got on that computer in the way of a CD or DVD drive and/or burner? IDE or SATA connection?

========================================================


----------



## lsitter

unitron said:


> Is this going to replace the internal TiVo drive or be attached externally, with the original drive left inside the TiVo?


Internal, replacing the current internal.



> How much free space do you have on that drive?


539 GB



> Is this dual drive thing from Egghead something for your computer or are you actually thinking of the designed specifically for a TiVo dual drive bracket thingie from Weaknees or PTVUpgrade or 9thTee or whoever?


Based on what I just found for my motherboard, I don't think I need it now.



> What's the brand and model number of your computer motherboard so we can see how many IDE and SATA ports you have.


I have a Dell Inspiron Desktop 546. I don't believe I have any IDE ports and now believe (see below) I have 4 SATA ports.



> What have you got on that computer in the way of a CD or DVD drive and/or burner? IDE or SATA connection?


I have a CD/DVD burner combo unit. I have 1 hard drive. According to http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/insp535mt/en/sm/techov.htm it appears I have 4 SATA ports. Assuming 1 is taken by the hd and 1 by the cd/dvd, maybe I have 2 available? If so, I think that will be perfect!

Now, I'm beginning to think I can connect both drives to my computer at same time, so this may be a moot point!

Thank you for taking the time to assist me!


----------



## Robbdoe1

hankbates said:


> I do plan on getting another drive, haven't decided which.
> The drive I returned showed a mfg date sometime in October 2010.
> I was concerned the drive would be out of warranty once I ran wdidle3, since the wd site said only to use it on a couple of other drives.
> I backed up the drive a month or so ago, then again immediately before I installed the wd10evds. Neither backup image would restore the new drive so that it would pass welcome, but when I applied the backup image to the old drive, it worked fine, and is still working a week later.
> Should I go back to Amazon and get another drive? The quietness of the WD drives appeals to me. Maybe I worried too much....
> Thanks, Hank


I would get a new drive. Maybe you will get lucky and get 1 that will not require running Wdidle3. I got mine at Newegg and it worked fine. Let us know how it works out please.

BTW: nice job backing it up before the drive kicked out. If I had oonly been so smart.

Robb


----------



## RickStrobel

RickStrobel said:


> Yes that does help, thanks!
> 
> Here's what I think is the drive you're referring to for $5 more:
> Western Digital WD15EVDS 1.5 TB AV Hard Drive





richsadams said:


> That's a very good option, especially for $5 more. If you get it (and have the patience) can you try doing the upgrade w/o tweaking the Intellipark feature (running wdidle3.exe) first to see if it will boot up and if it does if it will reboot from a menu restart? Either way could you also post the manufacture date? It would really help solidify the data on these drives. TIA.
> 
> I'm really hoping that we'll get to the point where the WD GP drives can be fully recommended without any caveats once again.





RickStrobel said:


> So I'll upgrade to the new drive by using MFS Tools to copy his existing recordings, etc. Install the drive in the TiVo HD and see if it boots and will do a menu restart. If it does then that means Intellipark is not an issue? If it doesn't then I just need to boot the CD with wdidle3.exe and run it to turn off that feature, pop the drive back in the TiVo HD and it should be fine?


I've successfully copied the old drive to the new one with WinMFS. I've rebooted the TiVo from the menu twice and it has come up both times. Guess that means that I don't need to tweak the Intellipark feature using wdidle3.exe?

Drive is WD15EVDS manufacture date of 13 Feb 2010. My friend ordered it from Amazon so it's a little surprising that it's so old. But it does seem to be fine on reboots.

Recording capacity is now 180 HD and 1,570 SD!


----------



## unitron

This is a reply to lsitter.

When you hook up everything to do the copy, first do a truncated backup file onto your computer's hard drive--suggest you create a new folder to put it in first.

Do a restore from that file to your new 1TB drive. Test that in the TiVo.

(while you're testing that in the TiVo, go back to the computer and do a full, recorded shows and all, backup from your original Tivo drive)

If it works, do a clear and delete everything ON THE NEW DRIVE, then put it back in the computer and do a backup file from it. Then look on the various image begging threads on this and other TiVo-centric sites. There are people looking for this image and you can pay back by paying forward.

Note that after doing this you will have three different backup files on your computer, a truncated backup that has no shows saved but does have your original setup (which cable company, use phone or network for downloading program guide, etc) info intact, another truncated backup that has nothing saved (this is the image you'll share with the beggers) and is ready to go through guided setup, and finally the big one, your entire original 160 GB drive's contents. You should, of course, give each file a unique name so as to be able to tell them apart and to avoid overwritting one with another. You should also burn the first two to a CD and then restore from the CD to the new 1TB drive and test them in the TiVo to make sure you've got a good backup of those 2 files since you only have one copy of each on your only computer hard drive.

After all that, do a restore of the third file to your new drive and test it in the Tivo.

Then put it back in the computer and do an expand on it, and then test it in the TiVo again.

If all is well and you've now got lots of extra space, remove the original TiVo drive from the computer and put it away someplace safe "just in case".

Good luck.


----------



## tcfcameron

unitron said:


> This is a reply to lsitter.
> 
> When you hook up everything to do the copy, first do a truncated backup file onto your computer's hard drive--suggest you create a new folder to put it in first.
> 
> Do a restore from that file to your new 1TB drive. Test that in the TiVo.
> 
> (while you're testing that in the TiVo, go back to the computer and do a full, recorded shows and all, backup from your original Tivo drive) <snip>


The only way that WinMFS can copy the full drive, is to copy to another drive, as in, cloning the drive. This either requires an empty drive to copy to, or a drive that the OP would be willing to lose all the data on.

Now, if you are talking about using MFSLive/MFSTools, which runs from a bootable CD, instead of booting into Windows, then full backup images can be created, without requiring an empty drive to copy to, or sacrificing a drive that has other data on it. Although, when doing things this way, it is highly advisable to disconnect all drives except the source (the TiVo drive) and destination (for the image file) drive.

Since the OP doesn't seem too familiar with all of this, I'd hate for him to accidentally lose any data, by not going about things properly.

One thing I have wondered about, is if there is some way, within Windows, to set up a "virtual hard drive", which is really contained in an image file, and able to be used as the destination for a drive-to-drive copy, using WinMFS. That certainly would make things easier.

Has anybody tried this? Any success? If so, what software did you use to create the "virtual hard drive"? And, would the image file that contains the virtual hard drive be in a format that could be distributed to others, and accessed using free software?


----------



## lrhorer

tcfcameron said:


> One thing I have wondered about, is if there is some way, within Windows, to set up a "virtual hard drive", which is really contained in an image file, and able to be used as the destination for a drive-to-drive copy, using WinMFS. That certainly would make things easier.


No, because WinMFS is not copying raw data. It is modifying the partition table of the drive and formatting the partitions. Such an emulation would be problematical, even under Linux.


----------



## unitron

tcfcameron said:


> The only way that WinMFS can copy the full drive, is to copy to another drive, as in, cloning the drive. This either requires an empty drive to copy to, or a drive that the OP would be willing to lose all the data on.
> 
> Now, if you are talking about using MFSLive/MFSTools, which runs from a bootable CD, instead of booting into Windows, then full backup images can be created, without requiring an empty drive to copy to, or sacrificing a drive that has other data on it. Although, when doing things this way, it is highly advisable to disconnect all drives except the source (the TiVo drive) and destination (for the image file) drive.
> 
> Since the OP doesn't seem too familiar with all of this, I'd hate for him to accidentally lose any data, by not going about things properly.
> 
> One thing I have wondered about, is if there is some way, within Windows, to set up a "virtual hard drive", which is really contained in an image file, and able to be used as the destination for a drive-to-drive copy, using WinMFS. That certainly would make things easier.
> 
> Has anybody tried this? Any success? If so, what software did you use to create the "virtual hard drive"? And, would the image file that contains the virtual hard drive be in a format that could be distributed to others, and accessed using free software?


He (she?) says he's got 539 GB free space on a 600 GB drive, so the WinMFS equivalent of "backup -Tao (insert backup file path/name here) /dev/sd"x" should fit, it'll just take 'til Christmas : - )

I'm just wondering if Windows 7 will do anything nasty to his source and target TiVo drives the way I've heard that some versions of XP did, or if WinMFS automagically finds and fixes that.


----------



## lsitter

unitron said:


> If it works, do a clear and delete everything ON THE NEW DRIVE, then put it back in the computer and do a backup file from it. Then look on the various image begging threads on this and other TiVo-centric sites. There are people looking for this image and you can pay back by paying forward.


No problem sharing as long as not copywrite violation of TiVo. Are they okay with that?



tcfcameron said:


> Since the OP doesn't seem too familiar with all of this, I'd hate for him to accidentally lose any data, by not going about things properly.


I definitely would hate to lose data, accidently or not! Assuming, of course, that I am the OP. What the heck is an OP?



unitron said:


> He (she?) says he's got 539 GB free space on a 600 GB drive, so the WinMFS equivalent of "backup -Tao (insert backup file path/name here) /dev/sd"x" should fit, it'll just take 'til Christmas : - )
> 
> I'm just wondering if Windows 7 will do anything nasty to his source and target TiVo drives the way I've heard that some versions of XP did, or if WinMFS automagically finds and fixes that.


I'm a "he". I hope it doesn't do anything nasty. That would not be good. I would assume we would be hearing about it if Windows 7 is an issue. Anybody?

I ordered 2 1TB drives last night with SATA cables and power cables. I'm pumped and I am ready to do this for my 2 TiVo HD DVRs! Hopefully, my daughter's programs will stop deleting stuff before I have a chance to view! She's making me crazy with changing everything of hers to "Save until I delete". We go back and forth, I'm tired of fighting it and hopefully this will solve the problem. For now.

Shhhh, don't anybody tell her that Disney Channel is in high def!


----------



## justen_m

richsadams said:


> This is the Hitachi I'd recommend:
> http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-Deskst.../dp/B0035WQBOY


FWIW, I upgraded my TivoHD with one of these a while back and it has been flawless (search upthread for my xp). I recently bought two more of these drives, and am setting them up in a RAID 1 array in my latest PC. (My main computer was having an inferiority complex because my Tivo had a bigger drive, so I had to give her a couple extra terrabytes)

[edit] Sorry, no experience with Windows 7. My three machines run XP (2 home, 1 pro), and I've never had a problem running the winmfs tools or hddscan.
[edit2] 1tb+ drives in the TivoHD are a must. Easy upgrade. I currently have over 200 suggestions waiting for my viewing, plus a _ton_ of stuff waiting for me to see. Like every single episode so far of Detroit 1-8-7 and Blue Bloods. A half dozen episodes of Mythbusters, and more cooking shows than I am willing to admit.


----------



## ThAbtO

On my recently up'd Tivo 1TB drive, I have 4 seasons of Knight Rider from the 80s, and 2 seasons of CHiPs transferred (pushed by kmttg) and there's still over 100 deleted programs in my Recently deleted folder.


----------



## richsadams

RickStrobel said:


> I've successfully copied the old drive to the new one with WinMFS. I've rebooted the TiVo from the menu twice and it has come up both times. Guess that means that I don't need to tweak the Intellipark feature using wdidle3.exe?
> 
> Drive is WD15EVDS manufacture date of 13 Feb 2010. My friend ordered it from Amazon so it's a little surprising that it's so old. But it does seem to be fine on reboots.
> 
> Recording capacity is now 180 HD and 1,570 SD!


Great feedback, thanks! :up: There are several other posts over the past few months that indicated that WD AV/GP drives manufactured before 09/15/10 did not have the soft reboot issue which requires the Intellipark feature to be tweaked. Unfortunately it only applied to the dedicated A/V drives and not every WD GP drive across the board. But that's still great news for you! Enjoy!


----------



## richsadams

lsitter said:


> No problem sharing as long as not copywrite violation of TiVo. Are they okay with that?


Yes there are copyright issues and sharing of basic TiVo images is prohibited (on the TCF).


----------



## richsadams

lsitter said:


> I've read through the FAQs now, really good stuff. I see that they were written in 2007 and have a question about doing the upgrade and preserving settings AND recordings:
> 
> Is it possible to just copy the original TiVo hard drive to my computer hard drive and then copy all to the new drive? My computer has a 750gb drive.
> 
> I'm trying to avoid having to connect both the old and new TiVo drives to my computer at the same time. I'm running Windows 7 Ultimate.
> 
> Thanks.


I haven't had time to read all of the back-and-forth responses to your post but it would seem that there is a lot of confusion where there doesn't need to be any.

As I understand it you have a TiVo HD with an upgraded 750GB drive, you want to upgrade again to 1TB and you want to keep your current settings and recordings correct? I did see that you can connect your upgraded TiVo drive and your new hard drive to your computer's SATA ports at the same time. If that's the case all you need to do is run winMFS and the full copy method (preserves all recordings and settings - Section 5, #22B of the FAQ) to upgrade once more. Don't worry about doing anything else.


----------



## lsitter

richsadams said:


> I haven't had time to read all of the back-and-forth responses to your post but it would seem that there is a lot of confusion where there doesn't need to be any.
> 
> As I understand it you have a TiVo HD with an upgraded 750GB drive, you want to upgrade again to 1TB and you want to keep your current settings and recordings correct? I did see that you can connect your upgraded TiVo drive and your new hard drive to your computer's SATA ports at the same time. If that's the case all you need to do is run winMFS and the full copy method (preserves all recordings and settings - Section 5, #22B of the FAQ) to upgrade once more. Don't worry about doing anything else.


No confusion any longer. I think I got it now, just waiting on my hard drives to come. The 750 drive is in my computer, the TiVos that I am upgrading are stock. I have 2 TiVo HD DVRs and 1 Series 2 TiVo.

Now I'm wondering... can I put the stock hard drive from one of my TiVo HDs into my Series 2 TiVo.... ?


----------



## unitron

If I get there at the crack of Oh-dark-thirty Best Buy is selling the WD10000LSRTL (which is the part number for the retail box), which is apparently the WD1001FALS, for $59.

Any opinions on suitability for a SA S2 DT (tcd649080), assuming use of SATA - IDE adapter?


----------



## justen_m

unitron said:


> If I get there at the crack of Oh-dark-thirty Best Buy is selling the WD10000LSRTL (which is the part number for the retail box), which is apparently the WD1001FALS, for $59.
> 
> Any opinions on suitability for a SA S2 DT (tcd649080), assuming use of SATA - IDE adapter?


I got a pair of 1tb drives for $56 each, from amazon.com. This doesn't sound like a deal worth getting up early for. My order was (Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000.C HDS721010CLA332 - Hard drive - 1 TB - internal - 3.5" - SATA-300 - 7200 rpm - buffer: 32 MB)

I heard online that there were some 750gb drives for $35 each.

I can't offer any actual advice. My S2DT has its original drive. My TivoHD is upgraded, but TivoHD is SATA, and I think the S2 is IDE.

Not really a deal worth getting up early for, or battling traffic, IMO. You can find the same or better online.


----------



## unitron

justen_m said:


> I got a pair of 1tb drives for $56 each, from amazon.com. This doesn't sound like a deal worth getting up early for. My order was (Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000.C HDS721010CLA332 - Hard drive - 1 TB - internal - 3.5" - SATA-300 - 7200 rpm - buffer: 32 MB)
> 
> I heard online that there were some 750gb drives for $35 each.
> 
> I can't offer any actual advice. My S2DT has its original drive. My TivoHD is upgraded, but TivoHD is SATA, and I think the S2 is IDE.
> 
> Not really a deal worth getting up early for, or battling traffic, IMO. You can find the same or better online.


Apparently I can also buy it from them online with either free shipping or in store pickup, the question isn't how or when to buy, it's whether.


----------



## richsadams

lsitter said:


> No confusion any longer. I think I got it now, just waiting on my hard drives to come. The 750 drive is in my computer, the TiVos that I am upgrading are stock. I have 2 TiVo HD DVRs and 1 Series 2 TiVo.
> 
> Now I'm wondering... can I put the stock hard drive from one of my TiVo HDs into my Series 2 TiVo.... ?


Ah, got it now. So your is the easiest of upgrades...use winMFS, don't miss any steps...done.

You could repurpose your TiVo HD drive for your Series2...although you'd have to image it...you couldn't just drop it in. However the best thing to do is simply put both original TiVo HD drives on the shelf as backups. Each drive is set up for that particular TiVo. If something goes wrong you can slip the original drive back in and be up and running plus you can use it to re-image a replacement drive.

If you want to upgrade your Series2 it would be much wiser to simply buy a new/bare drive and upgrade.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## richsadams

unitron said:


> If I get there at the crack of Oh-dark-thirty Best Buy is selling the WD10000LSRTL (which is the part number for the retail box), which is apparently the WD1001FALS, for $59.
> 
> Any opinions on suitability for a SA S2 DT (tcd649080), assuming use of SATA - IDE adapter?


Overkill, noisy and runs hotter than any of the recommended WD GP drives. The GP drives are often on sale for about the same amount. Catch some extra Z's!


----------



## unitron

richsadams said:


> Overkill, noisy and runs hotter than any of the recommended WD GP drives. The GP drives are often on sale for about the same amount. Catch some extra Z's!


You da man. That's the kind of info I was looking for...

I'm on more of "Caviar Blue when they're really, really on sale" budget, so I'm not familiar with the Blacks. The attraction of this one is the current price and local availability (and apparently I can order online and pickup local), especially if I have to return it for any reason, but with nearly 8% NC sales tax I may just go with the Hitachi from Amazon for a couple dollars more and wait for the mailman.

(Who knew mom could fill up 500 GB so fast?)

Anybody else with 649080 drive recommendations, please also visit

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=459327

since this is theoretically a T3 thread.

Oh, and if anybody has a 5000jbrtl/5000aakb PATA they'd like to sell cheap...


----------



## cherry ghost

Is the WD10EVDS okay to use? The dates in the first post seem to be from last year and I see the WD20EVDS being recommended for the Premiere.

I want to get rid of the external on my S3 and replace the internal. Do I divorce the external, run the TiVo to make sure everything's okay and then do the upgrade?


----------



## ThAbtO

cherry ghost said:


> Is the WD10EVDS okay to use? The dates in the first post seem to be from last year and I see the WD20EVDS being recommended for the Premiere.
> 
> I want to get rid of the external on my S3 and replace the internal. Do I divorce the external, run the TiVo to make sure everything's okay and then do the upgrade?


Yes.


----------



## richsadams

cherry ghost said:


> Is the WD10EVDS okay to use? The dates in the first post seem to be from last year and I see the WD20EVDS being recommended for the Premiere.
> 
> I want to get rid of the external on my S3 and replace the internal. Do I divorce the external, run the TiVo to make sure everything's okay and then do the upgrade?


+1 :up:


----------



## rmassey

(BF/11-26-10) ~ WD15EARS is $59 at Amazon, I'm in for one. 

I have a lifetime S3 with the factory 250 Int + 1T Ext/MX-1. Both drives are 3.5ish years old, so I consider this preventative maintenance. My plan is to upgrade to one internal 1.5T (using 1350g) and keep it simple. I don't care about wasting 150gb with this upgrade.

My Tivo sits in a rack closet. Whenever I go into the closet, if I just happen to bump the eSata wire just right, the S3 reboots. It always comes up just fine, but I kinda want to eliminate this issue with one internal drive. Hopefully I get a 15EARS that does not require the intellipark to be disabled.

I upgraded a Tivo HD (160 + 500 WD Ext) to 1 TB internal using WinMFS a few weeks ago. Upgrade worked fine. So, looking to have same results with the S3 upgrade plan.


----------



## richsadams

rmassey said:


> (BF/11-26-10) ~ WD15EARS is $59 at Amazon, I'm in for one.
> 
> I have a lifetime S3 with the factory 250 Int + 1T Ext/MX-1. Both drives are 3.5ish years old, so I consider this preventative maintenance. My plan is to upgrade to one internal 1.5T (using 1350g) and keep it simple. I don't care about wasting 150gb with this upgrade.
> 
> My Tivo sits in a rack closet. Whenever I go into the closet, if I just happen to bump the eSata wire just right, the S3 reboots. It always comes up just fine, but I kinda want to eliminate this issue with one internal drive. Hopefully I get a 15EARS that does not require the intellipark to be disabled.
> 
> I upgraded a Tivo HD (160 + 500 WD Ext) to 1 TB internal using WinMFS a few weeks ago. Upgrade worked fine. So, looking to have same results with the S3 upgrade plan.


Thanks for the tip! Good plan all around. :up: Happy upgrading!


----------



## unitron

NewEgg's selling the ST31000528AS for $49.99 with free shipping.

Customer reviews are mixed (although I assume that the people who get bad ones are more likely to take the time to post a review), and a lot of the unhappy ones seem to put at least some of the blame on the way NewEgg ships OEM drives if you aren't buying a whole pallet.

Any opinions on the TiVo-bility of this model (especially if from NewEgg), particularly in an S2 (with adapter)?


----------



## tcfcameron

unitron said:


> NewEgg's selling the ST31000528AS for $49.99 with free shipping.
> 
> Customer reviews are mixed (although I assume that the people who get bad ones are more likely to take the time to post a review), and a lot of the unhappy ones seem to put at least some of the blame on the way NewEgg ships OEM drives if you aren't buying a whole pallet.
> 
> Any opinions on the TiVo-bility of this model (especially if from NewEgg), particularly in an S2 (with adapter)?


Two things I can say, from my own personal experience:

NewEgg packages bulk hard drives in the worst possible way (short of taking it out of the factory anti-static bag first). My two drives arrived with the outer box in perfect condition. The inner packaging left nothing but two thin layers of cardboard between the two drives, as well as between the drives and the outside of the box.

WD hard drives are manufactured with safeguards to prevent damage during shipping. I can't say that I am aware of any other manufacturer that does that. If not for that, and the apparently gentle transport that my drives experienced, I probably would have received two DOA drives.


----------



## Robbdoe1

tcfcameron said:


> Two things I can say, from my own personal experience:
> 
> NewEgg packages bulk hard drives in the worst possible way (short of taking it out of the factory anti-static bag first). My two drives arrived with the outer box in perfect condition. The inner packaging left nothing but two thin layers of cardboard between the two drives, as well as between the drives and the outside of the box.
> 
> WD hard drives are manufactured with safeguards to prevent damage during shipping. I can't say that I am aware of any other manufacturer that does that. If not for that, and the apparently gentle transport that my drives experienced, I probably would have received two DOA drives.


FWIW: I was also surprised by the EGG's packaging. The 1TB I got was packaged crappy. It was in the anti static bag, but was flopping in the box with little security. It could have easily been DOA but lucky for me it was not.

Robb


----------



## unitron

Thanks, guys. 

Now, any opinions about grabbing an Hitachi 0S02484 X Series External 1TB for $50 from OfficeMax and using the drive inside itself in a TiVo?



(I think I might be kidding about this, 'cause it's only got a 1 year warranty even if you don't "take it apart to see how it would have worked"* : - )


*I've got track down that quote again and start giving proper credit to the guy who came up the perfect way to describe my childhood exploits (even if he was talking about himself).


----------



## Robbdoe1

I'm not saying I would not buy from Newegg again cause I would. I was just saying that I was surprised how crappy it was packaged. I'm sure they would exchange it if it came damaged. I tend to buy most of the computer related stuff I get from them or Amazon.

I like the Egg cause they accept Paypal and even price matched Amazon last time. They say they don't price match but it never hurts to ask .

Robb


----------



## tcfcameron

Robbdoe1 said:


> FWIW: I was also surprised by the EGG's packaging. The 1TB I got was packaged crappy. It was in the anti static bag, but was flopping in the box with little security. It could have easily been DOA but lucky for me it was not.
> 
> Robb


I didn't mean that they actually took the drives out of the anti-static bags. I just meant that it would be about the only way to ship the drives with any less protection from damage.

As it were, each of the drives had two slits through the ESD bags, so they weren't even vacuum sealed anymore...

I'd still buy from them again, if the discount was as big as the last time...


----------



## unitron

You'll want *all* your TiVo storage to be external.

http://www.reghardware.com/2010/11/26/seagate_delorean/

Be the first on your block to have a TiVo with a flux capacitor!*

*(Not the same thing as all those BX chipset mobo's with "fluxed" capacitors)


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

rmassey said:


> Both drives are 3.5ish years old, so I consider this preventative maintenance. My plan is to upgrade to one internal 1.5T (using 1350g) and keep it simple. I don't care about wasting 150gb with this upgrade.


I think it's smart to be proactive about replacing disk drives, unfortunately I'm too lazy.

But what bugs me about drive replacement is the chorus of people who say "I've been using hard drives since ferrous oxide was discovered and I've never had a failure". To which my response is, there's never a question of whether a drive is going to fail, the only question is *when.*


----------



## richsadams

unitron said:


> Thanks, guys.
> 
> Now, any opinions about grabbing an Hitachi 0S02484 X Series External 1TB for $50 from OfficeMax and using the drive inside itself in a TiVo?.


Noisy (AAM probably can't be adjusted) and hot. Warranty is voided if removed from the enclosure.


----------



## rmassey

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I think it's smart to be proactive about replacing disk drives, unfortunately I'm too lazy.
> 
> But what bugs me about drive replacement is the chorus of people who say "I've been using hard drives since ferrous oxide was discovered and I've never had a failure". To which my response is, there's never a question of whether a drive is going to fail, the only question is *when.*


I agree. In the case of my Tivo, it's easier/wiser to replace it now with a working factory drive using WinMFS.

For computers/servers, I'll use the drive until it fails (I have 2-3 backups of all my data) or until the size of the drive becomes obsolete for my needs. Heck I still have some 250GB IDE drives from 2002 that still work fine. It's just that they are relatively small compared to 1-2TB available today. I still use them but not actively on my servers.


----------



## nwnerd

Hi there,
I just wanted to say that I upgraded the hd in my Tivo HD last night thanks to this splendid guide. I happened to have a 1TB drive that I had been using in my HTPC, but I'm scrapping the HTPC & this seemed to be a perfect spot for that hd. So thanks to all of the contributors, it wasn't bad at all & now I have plenty of space on the Tivo.

One question that I do have: my drive is a WD Green drive, an EACS model. It installed & booted up with no problem, & I did a restart of the system to test it. No problems there either. Will the hanging problem that was mentioned in the guide that the Green drives have/had only show up after a software update? Or am I good to go? I didn't do the fix that the author talked about, so I'm not sure if this is something that will show up in the future.


----------



## Romantic

I have been reading all morning and still am not sure. Are these instructions applicable to the DirecTV HR10-250 TiVo units as well? I want to replace my existing HD with a new 1 TB and keep all my existing programs and season passes. I think the current HD is going bad as the picture quality on this unit is getting choppy while my other unit is still playing the same shows fine.

Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

Tracie said:


> One question that I do have: my drive is a WD Green drive, an EACS model. It installed & booted up with no problem, & I did a restart of the system to test it. No problems there either. Will the hanging problem that was mentioned in the guide that the Green drives have/had only show up after a software update? Or am I good to go? I didn't do the fix that the author talked about, so I'm not sure if this is something that will show up in the future.


If your TiVo rebooted from a menu restart you're good to go. Congrats and enjoy!


----------



## richsadams

Romantic said:


> I have been reading all morning and still am not sure. Are these instructions applicable to the DirecTV HR10-250 TiVo units as well? I want to replace my existing HD with a new 1 TB and keep all my existing programs and season passes. I think the current HD is going bad as the picture quality on this unit is getting "choppy" while my other unit is still playing the same shows fine.
> 
> Thanks!


Perhaps someone else will chime in but my honest answer is that I don't know. The FAQ is for the original TiVo Series3 and the TiVo HD/HDXL.

IIRC TiVo's built-in diagnostic and repair programs called "Kickstarts" will work on your TiVo so you could give them a try:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

Otherwise it sounds like you need an answer right away so you might have better luck over on one of the DirecTV threads or the TiVo Help Center thread.


----------



## nwnerd

richsadams said:


> If your TiVo rebooted from a menu restart you're good to go. Congrats and enjoy!


Cool, thank you! And thanks again to all in the thread, I'm stoked that I can actually turn suggestions back on.


----------



## willard

Would someone mind giving me some advice as to whether I should purchase the 1TB EVDS drive or the 1.5TB EVDS drive? The price difference appears to be about $15. I think the extra money is worth the additional extra capacity (1.26 TB vs 1TB right?) I just would like to know if creating the 1.26TB capacity creates any additional complications or potential for problems. I would like to follow an upgrade path that allows me to clone my original TIVO HD 250 gb drive onto the new drive... if creating the larger partition causes any quirks or requires any additional 'expertise' to complete the upgrade I will just stick with the standard 1 TB drive.

Thanks for your help.


----------



## BrightestBear

Help! I've just installed a 2TB hard drive from DVR Dude into my HD XL, and I'm now stuck on the "Welcome! Powering up ..." screen. After about 15 minutes without budging, I unplugged it and plugged it back in, this time after disconnecting the wireless adapter and popping out the cable card. But I'm still stuck on the powering up screen, and it's closing in on 20 minutes now. Any advice? I'm assuming since I actually see the powering up screen that I installed the hard drive correctly and something else is going wrong?


----------



## richsadams

BrightestBear said:


> Help! I've just installed a 2TB hard drive from DVR Dude into my HD XL, and I'm now stuck on the "Welcome! Powering up ..." screen. After about 15 minutes without budging, I unplugged it and plugged it back in, this time after disconnecting the wireless adapter and popping out the cable card. But I'm still stuck on the powering up screen, and it's closing in on 20 minutes now. Any advice? I'm assuming since I actually see the powering up screen that I installed the hard drive correctly and something else is going wrong?


If your TiVo is hanging on the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen it means that the motherboard cannot communicate with the hard drive.

Are you sure you reconnected the SATA/power cable to the new drive before closing the box up? Can you hear the hard drive spin up when you plug TiVo in? If everything is connected properly the drive may be DOA.

Try putting your original drive back in and see if TiVo boots up normally. If so I'd contact DVRDude about a replacement.


----------



## BrightestBear

richsadams said:


> If your TiVo is hanging on the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen it means that the motherboard cannot communicate with the hard drive.
> 
> Are you sure you reconnected the SATA/power cable to the new drive before closing the box up? Can you hear the hard drive spin up when you plug TiVo in? If everything is connected properly the drive may be DOA.
> 
> Try putting your original drive back in and see if TiVo boots up normally. If so I'd contact DVRDude about a replacement.


Thanks for the suggestions! What really worries me is that this is replacing a bad hard drive that was -- you guessed it! -- stuck in the "powering up" loop. Now I'm worried that there was something more wrong with the unit than a bad hard drive that a new one won't fix.

But I'll definitely listen for the drive and, if necessary, crack it open and make sure all the cables were properly connected.


----------



## richsadams

willard said:


> Would someone mind giving me some advice as to whether I should purchase the 1TB EVDS drive or the 1.5TB EVDS drive? The price difference appears to be about $15. I think the extra money is worth the additional extra capacity (1.26 TB vs 1TB right?) I just would like to know if creating the 1.26TB capacity creates any additional complications or potential for problems. I would like to follow an upgrade path that allows me to clone my original TIVO HD 250 gb drive onto the new drive... if creating the larger partition causes any quirks or requires any additional 'expertise' to complete the upgrade I will just stick with the standard 1 TB drive.
> 
> Thanks for your help.


If the price/space is worth it, go for the larger drive. As long as you follow all of the steps in the FAQ correctly there shouldn't be any issues. Review Section V, #'s 17 & 18 of the FAQ for more details.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## lsitter

Just the heads up: I'm knee deep in the hoopla... or something like that. I'm in the middle of the upgrade, doing the Mfscopy part down. ETA of 40 minutes. I hope that is normal.

So far, all has gone well. No issues, other than I order the wrong power connector for the replacement drive to connect it to my computer. Luckily, I had an extra power supply connector that I was able to use. I was dreading yet another trip to Best Buy.

The only thing that has had me a little leary is that my source (original) drive is showing up as drive "2" and my replacement as drive "1" in the WinMFS program. I'm sure that is just because of how it was connected to my computer and I hope that won't be an issue.

I did order the WD EVDS drives (2 TiVos, no waiting) from Amazon and they have a manufacture date of October 14, 2010. I should be good on the power issue, right?

Anyway, thanks to all that have replied to my dumb questions and for your great advice!


----------



## richsadams

lsitter said:


> Just the heads up: I'm knee deep in the hoopla... or something like that. I'm in the middle of the upgrade, doing the Mfscopy part down. ETA of 40 minutes. I hope that is normal.
> 
> So far, all has gone well. No issues, other than I order the wrong power connector for the replacement drive to connect it to my computer. Luckily, I had an extra power supply connector that I was able to use. I was dreading yet another trip to Best Buy.
> 
> The only thing that has had me a little leary is that my source (original) drive is showing up as drive "2" and my replacement as drive "1" in the WinMFS program. I'm sure that is just because of how it was connected to my computer and I hope that won't be an issue.
> 
> I did order the WD EVDS drives (2 TiVos, no waiting) from Amazon and they have a manufacture date of October 14, 2010. I should be good on the power issue, right?
> 
> Anyway, thanks to all that have replied to my dumb questions and for your great advice!


Everything sounds fine. If the progress meter doesn't move for a while, not to worry, that's fairly normal. You can open Task Manager (or better yet use Process Explorer) to find out if the program is working. One other small thing may happen..when you click on "Supersize" a pop-up confirmation can appear behind the winMFS window...so if you click on Supersize and don't see anything, move the winMFS menu out of the way and it will probably be there.

Have fun!


----------



## lsitter

A problem: The new drive wont fit the tivo bracket due to the way the hard drive is made. I will have to modify the bracket or get longer screws. The hard drive has some sort of "cross member" support that is interfering with the lip on the bracket. Hopefully, tin snips can take care of the issue.


----------



## richsadams

lsitter said:


> A problem: The new drive wont fit the tivo bracket due to the way the hard drive is made. I will have to modify the bracket or get longer screws. The hard drive has some sort of "cross member" support that is interfering with the lip on the bracket. Hopefully, tin snips can take care of the issue.


Really? That's a first! I know that particular drive has been used quite a few times w/o any issues. Be sure you're trying to reinstall it properly before making any physical changes to the drive (or TiVo) as it will certainly void the warranty.

If you can post photos of the problem area it might help.


----------



## lsitter

Disregard. The hard drive wont fit if you install it on wrong side of bracket. I'm an idiot. All is well (except me).


----------



## richsadams

lsitter said:


> Disregard. The hard drive wont fit if you install it on wrong side of bracket. I'm an idiot. All is well (except me).


Phew!! Happens to the best of us.


----------



## lsitter

Success! I am now doing the 2nd TiVo. I expect this to go much quicker and easier.


----------



## richsadams

lsitter said:


> Success! I am now doing the 2nd TiVo. I expect this to go much quicker and easier.


You'll be able to do it with your eyes closed in no time! 

Congrats on your "first born" by the way. :up:


----------



## ThAbtO

richsadams said:


> Congrats on your "first born" by the way. :up:


Watch out for those overnight feedings.


----------



## lsitter

Thanks. I'm pretty pumped about not having Hannah Montana delete my programs before I have a chance to watch them!

I'm down to putting away my tools and waiting for the 2nd TiVo to fire up. It just may be time for a Dairy Queen Blizzard run!

Thanks again for all of your help. What a great forum this is, from teaching me S-P-S-30-S to upgrading 21 hours of hd content to 157 hours X 2 TiVos!

Next, I need to figure out how to view my home videos on the computer via my TiVo on the TV and how to access my TiVo content from the internet when I travel.


----------



## CraigK

lsitter said:


> Disregard. The hard drive wont fit if you install it on wrong side of bracket. I'm an idiot. All is well (except me).


Welcome to The Club! :up:


----------



## richsadams

CraigK said:


> Welcome to The Club! :up:


Which one...the Eediot's Club or the "Supersized" TiVo Club?


----------



## richsadams

lsitter said:


> Next, I need to figure out how to view my home videos on the computer via my TiVo on the TV


PyTivo, (PyTiVoX) or KMTTG.



lsitter said:


> ...and how to access my TiVo content from the internet when I travel.


Slingbox.


----------



## ThAbtO

richsadams said:


> Which one...the Eediot's Club or the "Supersized" TiVo Club?


The Eediot's Supersized Ego Club!


----------



## CraigK

richsadams said:


> Which one...the Eediot's Club or the "Supersized" TiVo Club?


Both. It includes the folks (like myself) that have closed up their TiVo after the upgrade without attaching the SATA cable.


----------



## crak

I just purchased this one to upgrade my Tivo Hd, I did a series 2 about 5 years ago, so I expect to be even easier this time around. Wish me luck.


----------



## richsadams

crak said:


> I just purchased this one to upgrade my Tivo Hd, I did a series 2 about 5 years ago, so I expect to be even easier this time around. Wish me luck.


winMFS will be a cake walk for you, so you won't need a whole lot of luck as long as you don't miss any steps. But good luck anyway and happy upgrading!


----------



## Spenner

Can I use WinMFS to copy my already-upgraded Tivo HD 1TB drive to a new 1TB drive, preserving recordings? If so are there any restrictions on the replacement drive (same manufacturer [WD], block size, or something), if I plan on the size staying 1TB?

I ask because my Tivo HD is getting the S03 error, where it can't load program guide data. I searched on the S03 error, and already tried rebooting, and clearing the program info, but it still gets the S03.

I'm reluctant to do a kickstart for fear of getting into a reboot loop, since my Tivo is at least still functional, so if I can get my recordings over to a new drive I'd prefer to do that than have to start from scratch.

My HD was upgraded from the standard 160GB to a 1TB over a year ago, I still have the original drive. I'd be looking to copy from my still-functioning 1TB to a new 1TB.

Thanks!


----------



## jjberger2134

Hi, I hope someone here can provide some advice for me. About 6-7 months ago I upgraded my stock TiVoHD to a Hitachi 1TB drive. The upgrade went smoothly thanks to the help that I found here. 

Unfortunately, lately I have noticed a lot of pixelization (no reboots or anything). Sometimes there is just a few "blocks" of bad images on the TV screen, sometimes the whole screen looks like a scrambled puzzle. In all cases the breakup lasts for a few seconds, but is usually followed by a series of these events. I have had Comcast out here to check the signal etc. (I have also had random dropped audio on my phone calls). Comcast has been here 2x and they have changed wiring, connections, etc. and claim my signal should be perfect.

Thus, my attention turns to the Hitachi Hard drive. I am thinking about replacing the drive, but before I do I have a few questions.

1. Do you think the drive is the culprit, based on my description?

2. Can I replace a 1TB drive with another 1TB drive? I remember reading that older TiVo models always had to have a larger replacement drive than the original, but does the 2nd replacement drive need to be larger than the original replacement drive?

3. I already received an RMA number from Hitachi and need to send them the 1TB drive first, then they will send a replacement within 2 weeks. For the 2 week period, can I "downgrade" to the original 30 hr TiVoHD drive?

4. How do you suggest that I save all of my Season Passes, and settings? I need to send back the bad drive first, then they will send me a replacement. So I cannot just use MFS.

Thanks in advance for your help!


----------



## ThAbtO

You can use WinMFS to make a backup first, then restore to another drive, they do not need to be connected at the same time.


----------



## dlfl

jjberger2134 said:


> ........
> 2. Can I replace a 1TB drive with another 1TB drive? I remember reading that older TiVo models always had to have a larger replacement drive than the original, but does the 2nd replacement drive need to be larger than the original replacement drive?
> ......


You must have a WinMFS backup from your original drive from when you first upgraded to 1 TB. I would restore that. I don't know about the must-increase-size question you mention but there is a chance a backup from your current 1 TB drive might be corrupt (since the drive is suspected of failing), so it would be safer to use the original backup.

Also, I would want to run the Hitachi extended diagnostics on your current drive before sending it back. It might not be the drive that is the problem.

You could sub the original drive back in. Be sure to get it to upgrade to the latest software (11.0j) before making any judgments. This is a good way to tell if the problems are the hard drive (assuming your original drive was good when removed).

Of course if you have changed cable cards since removing the original drive, that will be a complication. Either using the original drive, or using a restored backup from it, you will have to get your cards repaired. In that case your question about always-increase-size becomes important since you will want to use a backup of your current drive.


----------



## unitron

Spenner said:


> Can I use WinMFS to copy my already-upgraded Tivo HD 1TB drive to a new 1TB drive, preserving recordings? If so are there any restrictions on the replacement drive (same manufacturer [WD], block size, or something), if I plan on the size staying 1TB?
> 
> I ask because my Tivo HD is getting the S03 error, where it can't load program guide data. I searched on the S03 error, and already tried rebooting, and clearing the program info, but it still gets the S03.
> 
> I'm reluctant to do a kickstart for fear of getting into a reboot loop, since my Tivo is at least still functional, so if I can get my recordings over to a new drive I'd prefer to do that than have to start from scratch.
> 
> My HD was upgraded from the standard 160GB to a 1TB over a year ago, I still have the original drive. I'd be looking to copy from my still-functioning 1TB to a new 1TB.
> 
> Thanks!


You don't have to have the same brand or same model. If they both show the same LBA number, that should be sufficient.

I'm assuming you're talking about using a new, virgin 1TB drive. If it's been use elsewhere, say so, and we'll talk about checking for a "Host Protected Area" that could have been put on it.

The first thing to do is backup the original small drive to a file (assuming the original small drive was removed from the TiVo and put on a shelf instead of being used for something else), then restore from that file to this new 1TB drive (you don't have to expand it), and test that in the TiVo to be sure that you have a good backup file.

See if you can load program guide data successfully. If not, then the problem is probably somewhere other than any of your hard drives.

If you can, then it's likely your original replacement 1TB drive, either because of a physical defect that's developed in the drive, or corruption of the software stored on that drive even though the drive itself is alright, or it's both.

Then you'll take the new drive back out of the Tivo and hook it back up to your computer to copy your current 1TB drive.

I haven't played with WinMFS yet, but I think MFScopy, which is one of the things it does, is approximately the same as using the MFS Live CD to

backup -Tao - /dev/"source" | restore -s "swap partition size" -pi - /dev/"destination

The "Ta" switches back up everything, the "o - " switch sends the backup stream to "standard output", the pipe ( | ) re-directs standard output to the next command, which is "restore", the "s" switch sets the swap partition size on the destination drive (since it's empty space, you don't need to copy it, you just need to re-create the partition that holds it), the "p" switch tells it to arrange the partitions according to the post Series 1 scheme, and the "i -" tells it to get its input from "standard input" which is where the pipe redirected the output of the first command (backup).

You might want to go look at the "Full Guide" for the MFS Live CD to get an idea of what's going on.

Of course if something is screwed up on the original drive the copy will have the same problem, but at least you'll have a copy of your shows on a drive that's no worse off than the original.

Also, you can put the new copy in the machine, and see if it makes any difference at all.

If things are better with the new drive, that's not a guarantee that the old drive is bad, but it's an indicator that it might be.

Do your kickstart experiments on the new 1TB copy of the old 1TB drive.


----------



## crak

richsadams said:


> winMFS will be a cake walk for you, so you won't need a whole lot of luck as long as you don't miss any steps. But good luck anyway and happy upgrading!


Thanks a lot, I appreciate the community and you for the great work here.


----------



## fkong777

HI, I have a TivoHD tcd652160 dead at the startup screen for a few months now. Can someone provide me with a ISO or image for the Harddrive? I have a fresh 1TB hard drive at hand. I just want to get the unit up again. 

TIA.


----------



## richsadams

fkong777 said:


> HI, I have a TivoHD tcd652160 dead at the startup screen for a few months now. Can someone provide me with a ISO or image for the Harddrive? I have a fresh 1TB hard drive at hand. I just want to get the unit up again.
> 
> TIA.


It's not legal to post/trade original TiVo images. Your best bet is to buy a copy of Instant Cake and use that to upgrade to your new drive.

http://www.dvrupgrade.com/dvr/stores/1/instantcake.cfm


----------



## ThAbtO

richsadams said:


> It's not legal to post/trade original TiVo images.


One time I had a PM asking me for a copy of my backup of the THD, I refused that request.


----------



## richsadams

ThAbtO said:


> One time I had a PM asking me for a copy of my backup of the THD, I refused that request.


Wise move...might have been one of those TiVo Police stings we keep hearing about.


----------



## SteveG

This past weekend, I seem to have successfully used jmfs to duplicate an original 160gb and expand to utilize a full replacement 2tb drive. I then used winmfs to supersize. Reading has indicated that using jmfs's supersize will not work in a TivoHD.

It has now been running for 4-5 days with no apparent issues.

I'll report back if that changes, but very nice to have >300 hours of HD.

Thanks very much for all the fantastic information and enthusiasm in this forum.

Steve


----------



## richsadams

SteveG said:


> This past weekend, I seem to have successfully used jmfs to duplicate an original 160gb and expand to utilize a full replacement 2tb drive. I then used winmfs to supersize. Reading has indicated that using jmfs's supersize will not work in a TivoHD.
> 
> It has now been running for 4-5 days with no apparent issues.
> 
> I'll report back if that changes, but very nice to have >300 hours of HD.
> 
> Thanks very much for all the fantastic information and enthusiasm in this forum.
> 
> Steve


Thanks for that...it does sound promising.

For those that have TiVo HD/HDXL's and are willing to experiment a bit there's a thread discussing full 2TB upgrades. The upgrade is accomplished via a Linux program which the author, Comer, has generously created for a turn-key experience. The caveat is that it was designed to upgrade TiVo Premiere/Premiere XL's, but appears to also work with TiVo HD/HDXL's. (Unfortunately it does not work with the original TiVo Series3 due to partition issues). Bugs have appeared for those trying to use an eSATA drive after the 2TB upgrade as well.

Because the process employs a Linux boot CD it's different than using winMFS and takes a bit more work and time but not all that complicated. The caveat is that since it's fairly new and, again was designed for the Premier models it's unproven so upgrade at your own risk. Here's the link to the instructions and ISO file:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968


----------



## richsadams

I'm not a big proponent of external hard drives, but for anyone in the market this is a fairly good deal on the "TiVo approved" 1TB Western Digital My DVR Expander - $89.95 w/free shipping from a reputable e-tailer:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...2&AID=10659349&PID=552179&is=REG&A=details&Q=

Works with all hi-def TiVo's. (Although it looks like it's being replaced with the newer 1TB Western Digital My Book AV DVR Expander.)

NOTE: This will not work via plug and play with TiVo's that have an upgraded hard drive.


----------



## BrightestBear

OK, that 2 TB replacement hard drive that was stuck in an endless powering up cycle a few days ago? I popped the top of the TiVo, unplugged and reconnected the wire to the hard drive, and _voila_. It's working beautifully! I mean, a Comcast fella had to come out because they couldn't get the cable card re-paired over the phone. But now I've got the new drive loaded up with Season Passes galore -- all set to "save until I delete." Let the recording commence!


----------



## richsadams

Sweet! :up: Enjoy!


----------



## tcfcameron

SteveG said:


> This past weekend, I seem to have successfully used jmfs to duplicate an original 160gb and expand to utilize a full replacement 2tb drive. I then used winmfs to supersize. Reading has indicated that using jmfs's supersize will not work in a TivoHD.


What software version was on the original 160GB drive?

It's my understanding, some have reported, that they had to allow their un-updated (pulled, in a "virgin", never booted and/or updated state) drives to boot and update before the jmfs tools would work for the THD.


----------



## wtherrell

I have a THD with 1 Tb upgrade to WD Green Caviar. About a year ago I did the WMFS upgrade myself. Not sure I want to tackle again as I am now getting the SO3 error. Also the HDMI connector is apparently bad. BUT! It has Lifetime service on it! Also, I have saved the original drive that came with the THD--there was nothing wrong with it, just wanted more space. 

I'm thinking of either sending to weaknees for repair or buying new Premiere XL with LTS and selling the THD. 
I've done the math and repair is around $250 cheaper than getting the new XL with LTS. 
When (if) I get the new box can I somehow transfer the recordings on the old box to the new? The only thing I know I can transfer is Season Passes thru Tivo website. Or I guess I could just hook both boxes to TV and watch the recordings on the old one until thru with them. Also, I think I can print out the To Do List from Tivo.com. Easiest way to transfer wishlist? I'm thinking photographing screens and setting up again on new box. 
Any suggestions to help me decide?


----------



## wireless200

Just upgraded my series 3 HD to 1 TB. No problems. Wish I'd done it a long time ago.


----------



## BrightestBear

Yep, I'm feeling the same way about my upgrade! Why did I wait so long?


----------



## Robbdoe1

wtherrell said:


> I have a THD with 1 Tb upgrade to WD Green Caviar. About a year ago I did the WMFS upgrade myself. Not sure I want to tackle again as I am now getting the SO3 error. Also the HDMI connector is apparently bad. BUT! It has Lifetime service on it! Also, I have saved the original drive that came with the THD--there was nothing wrong with it, just wanted more space.
> 
> I'm thinking of either sending to weaknees for repair or buying new Premiere XL with LTS and selling the THD.
> I've done the math and repair is around $250 cheaper than getting the new XL with LTS.
> When (if) I get the new box can I somehow transfer the recordings on the old box to the new? The only thing I know I can transfer is Season Passes thru Tivo website. Or I guess I could just hook both boxes to TV and watch the recordings on the old one until thru with them. Also, I think I can print out the To Do List from Tivo.com. Easiest way to transfer wishlist? I'm thinking photographing screens and setting up again on new box.
> Any suggestions to help me decide?


I would look into getting a unit off Craigslist, Ebay or a new one from Block Buster for $99. Take your MOBO out and put it in the new unit. Then I would upgrade the drive myself again. For $150 you can have a new unit with Lifetime and a new 1TB drive.

As for the shows, does the unit boot up? Can you transfer the shows to a PC via Tivo desktop? You could use Winmfs and do a full copy but if the image is corrupted you take the chance of transferring that to the new unit.

Your in good shape with the original drive and all. You could slip it back in and see if that clears the error. Either way you have a good image on the original drive or the drive from the one you would buy.

Just some random thoughts.

Robb


----------



## wisny

Hey, I know I've seen you guys discuss this before, but I can't remember, and can't find  the brand names y'all recommend for external harddrives for a PC?

I am going to try transferring whatever shows I can via TiVo desktop but my very old external storage is only 100gb. Any recommendations?

It' Windows XP Media Center pc.


----------



## ThAbtO

wisny said:


> Hey, I know I've seen you guys discuss this before, but I can't remember, and can't find  the brand names y'all recommend for external harddrives for a PC?
> 
> I am going to try transferring whatever shows I can via TiVo desktop but my very old external storage is only 100gb. Any recommendations?
> 
> It' Windows XP Media Center pc.


You can use any external drive for a PC to do external storage for transferring recordings. This thread is about expanding/replacing the internal drive and which drives work in the Tivo.


----------



## wisny

ThAbtO said:


> You can use any external drive for a PC to do external storage for transferring recordings. This thread is about expanding/replacing the internal drive and which drives work in the Tivo.


Sorry, yes, I did know it's about tivo expansions. I've just heard Robb and Rich talking about drive brands they liked. Used to be Seagate, then it wasn't, then I think it was again? One brand was unreliable - maybe WDs? I was hoping one of them might be online and could say which external PC drives they considered reliable now.

eta: I made a new thread in General chit chat. Apologies!


----------



## richsadams

wisny said:


> Hey, I know I've seen you guys discuss this before, but I can't remember, and can't find  the brand names y'all recommend for external harddrives for a PC?
> 
> I am going to try transferring whatever shows I can via TiVo desktop but my very old external storage is only 100gb. Any recommendations?
> 
> It' Windows XP Media Center pc.


A little OT, but relevant since you're using it to back up TiVo files . If I were to buy an external drive for backups right now it would be this Fantom 2TB drive:

http://www.buy.com/prod/fantom-gree...al-hard-drive-2-year/q/loc/101/212752646.html

They use Western Digital's GP "green" drives which run quiet and cool and Fantom's have a two-year warranty (while most have only one). Fantom has a good reputation (as does Buy.com) and for about $90 w/free shipping it's very hard to beat. :up:

If you've survived this long with a 100GB back-up drive, the Fantom may be the last one you'll ever need!


----------



## wisny

richsadams said:


> A little OT, but relevant since you're using it to back up TiVo files . If I were to buy an external drive for backups right now it would be this Fantom 2TB drive:
> 
> http://www.buy.com/prod/fantom-gree...al-hard-drive-2-year/q/loc/101/212752646.html
> 
> They use Western Digital's GP "green" drives which run quiet and cool and Fantom's have a two-year warranty (while most have only one). Fantom has a good reputation (as does Buy.com) and for about $90 w/free shipping it's very hard to beat. :up:
> 
> If you've survived this long with a 100GB back-up drive, the Fantom may be the last one you'll ever need!


ty! ahhh, yes, I'm very sloppy about backing up . After losing a laptop hd last year, you'd THINK I'd have learnt my lesson  but no. The only backup drive I have is the old Maxtor 100gb .

I did buy the WD Elements for $89.99 from NewEgg , so now two desktops will have backup drives. There's still another that needs one. Maybe I will put this one on my Christmas list :up:. Ehrm, and that laptop really prolly needs one too 

Thankyou again!!


----------



## Flyinace2000

I have a TivoHD and was thinking of doing the upgrade. There is a 1TB drive onsale at Amazon for $45. Would it be a good replacment?

Seagate Barracuda 7200 1 TB 7200RPM SATA 3Gb/s 32MB Cache 3.5 Inch Internal Hard Drive ST31000528AS-Bare Drive

The TivoHD can only use up to 1TB correct?


----------



## retiredqwest

Flyinace2000 said:


> I have a TivoHD and was thinking of doing the upgrade. There is a 1TB drive onsale at Amazon for $45. Would it be a good replacment?
> 
> Seagate Barracuda 7200 1 TB 7200RPM SATA 3Gb/s 32MB Cache 3.5 Inch Internal Hard Drive ST31000528AS-Bare Drive
> 
> The TivoHD can only use up to 1TB correct?


NO you can use a 2TB drive and get 318 hrs.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968


----------



## richsadams

Flyinace2000 said:


> I have a TivoHD and was thinking of doing the upgrade. There is a 1TB drive onsale at Amazon for $45. Would it be a good replacment?
> 
> Seagate Barracuda 7200 1 TB 7200RPM SATA 3Gb/s 32MB Cache 3.5 Inch Internal Hard Drive ST31000528AS-Bare Drive
> 
> The TivoHD can only use up to 1TB correct?


AFAIK no one has tried that particular drive to upgrade their TiVo so it's a bit unproven. As far as the drive itself there's no advantage to the 7200RPM speed or the 32MB of cache.. My immediate concern (as with all Seagate Barracuda drives) is the noise level. According to the drive specs the seek acoustics can be as much as 3.0 bels and manufacturers are notorious for under-statement when it comes to noise. By comparison stock TiVo drives are around 2.5 to 2.7 bels. The recommended upgrade drives (Hitachi and WD AV/GP drives) are around 2.4 bels. The auto acoustic management (AAM) cannot be adjusted on Seagate drives so it's possible you'd be stuck with a noisy drive depending on your sensitivity, where your TiVo is located, etc. But hey, that's a pretty good price! If you go forward with that particular drive let us know how it goes.

With respect to using drives larger than 1TB, refer to Section V, #17 of the FAQ (first post on this thread) and see my earlier post about the full 2TB upgrade retiredqwest refers to:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8259721#post8259721

Happy upgrading!


----------



## rmassey

rmassey said:


> (BF/11-26-10) ~ WD15EARS is $59 at Amazon, I'm in for one.
> 
> I have a lifetime S3 with the factory 250 Int + 1T Ext/MX-1. Both drives are 3.5ish years old, so I consider this preventative maintenance. My plan is to upgrade to one internal 1.5T (using 1350g) and keep it simple. I don't care about wasting 150gb with this upgrade.
> 
> My Tivo sits in a rack closet. Whenever I go into the closet, if I just happen to bump the eSata wire just right, the S3 reboots. It always comes up just fine, but I kinda want to eliminate this issue with one internal drive. Hopefully I get a 15EARS that does not require the intellipark to be disabled.
> 
> I upgraded a Tivo HD (160 + 500 WD Ext) to 1 TB internal using WinMFS a few weeks ago. Upgrade worked fine. So, looking to have same results with the S3 upgrade plan.


WD 1.5T BF drive came today....

Upgrade was a bit more interesting than the 1T in the TivoHD. I unmarried the eSata drive, backed up the original S3 WD250 with WinMFS and restored it over to the new 1.5T WD. My first attempt to boot got stuck on welcome powering up.... So I started from scratch.

The drive was dated Mar 2010, so I needed to run WDidle3 to disable Intellipark. Well, my primary desktop PC refused to boot off the burned CD, so i found an old klunker in the basement... problem is it does not have any sata connections for the new WD drive. So I had to open up my primary PC and pull a PCI eSata card, put it into the klunker PC and boot/run WDidle3 from this... and of course put it back into my primary PC. so yeah, kinda of a mild adventure in hardware shuffle just to be able to run WDidle and disable the intellipark. I vote for adding this to winMFS (if possible) 

Next, since my first Tivo boot attempt failed I decided to backup the 250 and restore to the new 1.5 WD again, just to make sure I didn't miss a step. I also tried to run the Acoustic Mgmt software but it failed to see the WD attached to a eSata Dock on my primary Desktop, no matter the S3 sits in an equipment rack outside the HT, so I have no specific need for a silent drive.

OK, after all this, I now am up and running with 212 hrs of HD capacity on the S3. I even did a soft reboot via the menu to test it for issues. No more eSata drive. No more bumping the eSata cable and restarting the S3. 

Thanks to the contributors of this thread for sharing the knowledge to expand and maintain our Tivos.


----------



## SteveG

tcfcameron said:


> What software version was on the original 160GB drive?
> 
> It's my understanding, some have reported, that they had to allow their un-updated (pulled, in a "virgin", never booted and/or updated state) drives to boot and update before the jmfs tools would work for the THD.


The original drive had already updated to version 11.0j, so this doesn't disprove that indicated issue.


----------



## richsadams

rmassey said:


> WD 1.5T BF drive came today....


Very resourceful and well done! :up: Enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## bkrodgers

Well, I'm thrilled to be able to report my successful upgrade to 2TB on my TivoHD!!!!! I ended up using a combination of Comer's JMFS tool for the Premiere, WinMFS, WDIDLE, and HDDScan. There were a couple of bumps in the road, but this absolutely works.

First, the goods. I picked up a WD20EARS on Amazon for $85. The manufacture date was 10/15/2010. I started out by running the extended test on it -- no problems. I was upgrading a THD that had never been upgraded before (I had been using it on an SD TV until recently, so the stock drive was good enough).

I started out by using JMFS to copy and expand the drive. I didn't try the supersize option at this point. I then used HDDScan to set AAM. I didn't do WDIDLE yet, to see if it was needed. I put the drive back in and powered up, and all was great -- I got the ~280 hours expected without supersize (can't remember the exact number right now). Did a soft reboot, and yes, it hung.

Popped the drive back in to do WDIDLE and supersize. WDIDLE had a hickup on my machine, because the SATA ports were in RAID mode (even though no RAID array was setup on the port I was using). JMFS was fine with it, but WDIDLE couldn't see the drive. Luckily my motherboard has an additional SATA port on a totally different controller, so I didn't have to turn RAID mode off (didn't want to do that unless necessary, as I feared my RAID arrays would need to be rebuilt). All good on the new port. The 10/15 manufactured drive *did* have intellipark turned on, so I turned it off with wdidle3 /D. I also used JMFS to supersize. Put things back in, and got a reboot loop. Uh oh. Wasn't too worried though, as I'd heard already that JMFS's supersize option didn't seem to work with THDs. I just wanted to try it out for the data point.

Drive back in the computer, used WinMFS to supersize. Drive back in the THD, and it booted up with no problems! I did not need to start over. Did a soft reboot, and it came up fine too. I'm now at 317 HD hours as expected, and I'm thrilled.

Here's what I'd recommend for anyone who wants to do this. Keep in mind this is THD only -- S3 doesn't work for JMFS:

Buy and test a WD20EARS
Use the WDIDLE boot CD and disable Intellipark (WDIDLE3 /D) (This may not really be needed depending on how your drive is set, but be prepared to do it.)
Use HDDScan to set AAM
Use Comer's JMFS disk to copy and expand, but do NOT supersize
Use WinMFS to supersize
You're done! Enjoy your 317 HD hours!

I think it may be time to revise the FAQ. I think we now do have a reliable DIY method to expand a THD to 2TB.

I can't thank everyone here enough, especially Rich for all his advice and Comer for his great JMFS tool. I'm just giddy as I'm setting my season passes to 25 episodes in HD!!!!

-Brian


----------



## Robbdoe1

Excellent work. The data points are appreciated as I have been eyeing a 2TB for some time now. How long has this been running?

Robb


----------



## bkrodgers

Robbdoe1 said:


> Excellent work. The data points are appreciated as I have been eyeing a 2TB for some time now. How long has this been running?
> 
> Robb


A couple hours.  I'll report back in a few days on stability, but not issues so far.


----------



## HazelW

Does the JMFS disk work with a TiVo HD that has been previously upgraded and expanded with WinMFS?


----------



## bkrodgers

HazelW said:


> Does the JMFS disk work with a TiVo HD that has been previously upgraded and expanded with WinMFS?


I didn't try that, but my understanding is that it does not. At least that's what they're saying about Premiers over in the tool's thread. I'm not sure if anyone's tried it with a THD yet, but I doubt it would be any different.

I am seriously thinking about picking up a second 2TB drive to upgrade my other Tivo, which has had a 1TB drive in it for close to three years. If I do it, I'm prepared to have to lose my recordings -- though I can transfer any non-blocked ones to my other unit with its nice new 2TB drive! If I do decide to do it, I could give the upgrade a shot just for kicks though. I just doubt it will work.


----------



## debtoine

We just did an install/upgrade for a friend of ours. We did not preserve the recordings off the original Tivo drive.

We put everything back together and powered up the Tivo. For about 15 min so far, it's stuck at the "Welcome! Powering up..." message.

Is this normal?

deb


----------



## richsadams

debtoine said:


> We just did an install/upgrade for a friend of ours. We did not preserve the recordings off the original Tivo drive.
> 
> We put everything back together and powered up the Tivo. For about 15 min so far, it's stuck at the "Welcome! Powering up..." message.
> 
> Is this normal?
> 
> deb


No, if the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen stays on for more than a five minutes or so it's not normal. When that happens it means the motherboard cannot communicate with the hard drive. Did you try power cycling it once or twice (pull the plug, wait about 10 seconds for the drive to spin down and then plug it back in)?

If that doesn't do it and the new drive is Western Digital it may be the Intellipark "feature" causing the problem. What drive did you end up using? If it's a Western Digital drive manufactured prior to 09/15/10 you may need to tweak the Intellipark timeout setting. For details about how to do that read Section IV, #29 of the FAQ (first post). You'll need to be able to connect the drive to a PC using a SATA cable (USB/SATA docks or adapters won't work).

If it's a different brand (Hitachi, Seagate, etc.) you should check all of the connections. I've performed upgrades and completely forgot to reconnect the drive! 

Let us know how it goes.


----------



## jjberger2134

dlfl said:


> You must have a WinMFS backup from your original drive from when you first upgraded to 1 TB. I would restore that. I don't know about the must-increase-size question you mention but there is a chance a backup from your current 1 TB drive might be corrupt (since the drive is suspected of failing), so it would be safer to use the original backup.
> 
> Also, I would want to run the Hitachi extended diagnostics on your current drive before sending it back. It might not be the drive that is the problem.
> 
> You could sub the original drive back in. Be sure to get it to upgrade to the latest software (11.0j) before making any judgments. This is a good way to tell if the problems are the hard drive (assuming your original drive was good when removed).
> 
> Of course if you have changed cable cards since removing the original drive, that will be a complication. Either using the original drive, or using a restored backup from it, you will have to get your cards repaired. In that case your question about always-increase-size becomes important since you will want to use a backup of your current drive.


Sorry for the delay in responding. Super busy lately. I appreciate your effort (and anyone else who chimes in here) to help me and answer my questions.

I did a backup of the original 160GB drive. I have a tbk file with the info, somewhere. Are you suggesting that I try to restore that to the drive that may be failing? Will that erase everything and lose all recordings? I can follow instructions, but I am pretty naive when it comes to the technical side here. What are you suggesting I use the backup for? I am a bit confused.

I can't run the Hitachi tools. This may sound strange but I cannot get the Hitachi Drive Fitness test CD to boot on my Windows 7 machine. The disk boots fine on my older Windows XP machine, but that machine does not have the proper SATA power/data connections. The Win7 machine has the SATA connectors, but the CD just won't boot (Other bootable media works, and I have looked at the boot order in the BIOS).

I may try the original drive, like you suggested. As far as I remember, that drive worked fine. CableCards are the same, so that should not be an issue.

Just not really sure the first step to take. Hitachi authorized an RMA, so I could just send back the suspected failing drive, but then I lose my recordings, season passes, etc. Is there a way to backup all of my recordings (I know I can move them to my PC, via TiVo Desktop), but that will take forever, and the PC only has about 450GB free). Not sure how much space my current recordings would take.

What should be the first step?


----------



## Tivoitis

HazelW said:


> Does the JMFS disk work with a TiVo HD that has been previously upgraded and expanded with WinMFS?





bkrodgers said:


> I didn't try that, but my understanding is that it does not. At least that's what they're saying about Premiers over in the tool's thread. I'm not sure if anyone's tried it with a THD yet, but I doubt it would be any different.
> 
> I am seriously thinking about picking up a second 2TB drive to upgrade my other Tivo, which has had a 1TB drive in it for close to three years. If I do it, I'm prepared to have to lose my recordings -- though I can transfer any non-blocked ones to my other unit with its nice new 2TB drive! If I do decide to do it, I could give the upgrade a shot just for kicks though. I just doubt it will work.


I tried with mine (THD, WinMFS to 750GB for past 3yrs) and it failed for me. I documented the various results over in the JMFS thread.


----------



## debtoine

richsadams said:


> No, if the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen stays on for more than a five minutes or so it's not normal. When that happens it means the motherboard cannot communicate with the hard drive. Did you try power cycling it once or twice (pull the plug, wait about 10 seconds for the drive to spin down and then plug it back in)?
> 
> If that doesn't do it and the new drive is Western Digital it may be the Intellipark "feature" causing the problem. What drive did you end up using? If it's a Western Digital drive manufactured prior to 09/15/10 you may need to tweak the Intellipark timeout setting. For details about how to do that read Section IV, #29 of the FAQ (first post). You'll need to be able to connect the drive to a PC using a SATA cable (USB/SATA docks or adapters won't work).
> 
> If it's a different brand (Hitachi, Seagate, etc.) you should check all of the connections. I've performed upgrades and completely forgot to reconnect the drive!
> 
> Let us know how it goes.


We ended up going with the WD10EVDS. It had a manufacture date of October 2010, so we figured we were in the clear with the Intellipark feature.

The drive we were upgrading from was having serious issues (which is why the upgrade was necessary). When the Tivo wouldn't boot up past the Welcome screen with the new drive, we figured it was either due to Intellipark or that the first drive was just way too far gone.

We decided to try running WDIDLE, and thankfully we had a blank CDR and the PC we ended up using actually had SATA on the motherboard (originally we were going to use my old Windows machine, but when I started it up on Friday, it wouldn't boot into Windows).

After running WDIDLE, we also ran WinMFS again to get the backup/restore on the old/new drive, and after all that, and reinstalling the new drive into the Tivo it booted up fine.

We don't know exactly what the issue was, but all is well now. Our friends are happy to be a 2 Tivo household again, and that's all that matters. 

deb


----------



## richsadams

debtoine said:


> We don't know exactly what the issue was, but all is well now. Our friends are happy to be a 2 Tivo household again, and that's all that matters.
> 
> deb


Excellent to hear! You guys must be heroes now. Santa's sure to have something good for your stockings!!


----------



## will792

Did anyone use 2.5" drives for Tivo Series 3?

I have Series 3 with 3 years old WD GP 1TB EADS drive. Occasionally I get pixelation and freezes so will need to replace a drive in the near future. There are now 2.5" drives in 750GB (Samsung and Seagate) and 1TB (Samsung) capacity and these laptop drives definitely make less noise and heat than any 3.5" drive. Thinking about using a laptop drive for replacement. Series3 does not support drives larger than 1TB anyway so a laptop drive might be perfect.


----------



## lrhorer

Has anyone ever tried one of these drives in a TiVo as a primary drive? They have a 4G flash drive built in designed to cache the most commonly used areas of the drive. It was proposed as a solution to help the TiVo boot more quickly. I doubt it will do so, although one never knows for sure until one tries. What it might do is speed up guide data operations. Is there anyone out there who wants to upgrade to 500G and doesn't mind paying the premium for one of these drives for the sake of experiment?


----------



## ThAbtO

The Tivo is not a Guinea Pig........ or is it?


----------



## unitron

ThAbtO said:


> The Tivo is not a Guinea Pig........ or is it?


Now don't you be talkin' 'bout my FrankenTiVo! : - )


----------



## richsadams

will792 said:


> Did anyone use 2.5" drives for Tivo Series 3?
> 
> I have Series 3 with 3 years old WD GP 1TB EADS drive. Occasionally I get pixelation and freezes so will need to replace a drive in the near future. There are now 2.5" drives in 750GB (Samsung and Seagate) and 1TB (Samsung) capacity and these laptop drives definitely make less noise and heat than any 3.5" drive. Thinking about using a laptop drive for replacement. Series3 does not support drives larger than 1TB anyway so a laptop drive might be perfect.


The 2.5" drive discussion has popped up on and off for a few years. AFAIK no one has gone down that path. It used to be the biggest concern was reliability since laptop drives aren't designed for 24/7 operations but I don't know if that would still be an issue or not. I don't think it would take much more than SATA and power adapters. Did you say you'd like to become a card carrying member of the TiVo Pioneer Club? Great T-shirts by the way. 



lrhorer said:


> Has anyone ever tried one of these drives in a TiVo as a primary drive? They have a 4G flash drive built in designed to cache the most commonly used areas of the drive. It was proposed as a solution to help the TiVo boot more quickly. I doubt it will do so, although one never knows for sure until one tries. What it might do is speed up guide data operations. Is there anyone out there who wants to upgrade to 500G and doesn't mind paying the premium for one of these drives for the sake of experiment?


That really piqued my interest when it came out. The near snappiness of an SSD (which is awesome in my new MacBook AIR BTW) is very compelling. Since reboots are almost non-existent for me I would be more interested in finding out if it would indeed cache the NPL, etc. I'd REALLY like to see if it would speed up our Premiere XL but I suspect there are other issues at work there...however it would be worth knowing the impact on a Series3 or a TiVo HD. Volunteers? Anyone? Anyone?


----------



## Robbdoe1

Someone here has used an SSD drive. I just don't remember who or when. 

Very helpful.

What I do remember was the cost of the drive was crazy high for the size. I also remember it was a few (2) months ago. I will look in my subscribed threads tomorrow and see if I can find the thread.

Found it.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=454580

Robb


----------



## richsadams

Robbdoe1 said:


> Someone here has used an SSD drive. I just don't remember who or when.
> 
> Very helpful.
> 
> What I do remember was the cost of the drive was crazy high for the size. I also remember it was a few (2) months ago. I will look in my subscribed threads tomorrow and see if I can find the thread.
> 
> Found it.
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=454580
> 
> Robb


Interesting stuff. I can actually see a hybrid SSD/platter drive being more optimal than a straight SSD drive IF the recurring data like SP's and the NPL in particular are cached in the SSD portion. If that happens and the day-to-day recordings are domiciled on the "normal" portion of the hard drive, now that would be _really_ sweet.

I'd give it a shot, but for us our TiVo Premiere XL is our main box and our Series3 secondary. So even if the GUI realized a great improvement it just wouldn't make a lot of difference (to us) on the Series3. I'm on the verge of upgrading the TPXL to 2TB and AFAIK there aren't any 2TB hybrid drives available just yet.

So I'll wait in the wings to see what some of you more adventurous folks do with the concept.


----------



## MPSAN

Well, one of my 1TB units is rebooting a few times a month. All is working OK, so I have no idea why it is doing it. The way I even know it is happening is that it is the TIVO with the noisy fan when it goes into high speed. It never does unless it reboots...then it is back to slow speed and is quiet. I will replace the fan, and it is NOT the cause for the reboots, as the THD is only running at about 40C. I guess I can just get a new HD from WD as this is still in Warranty, but it still seems strange as all else seems to be working! In fact, if it were not for the fan issue, I would not even know this was going on!

Any ideas? I guess I can get a new Fan and WD drive.


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Well, one of my 1TB units is rebooting a few times a month. All is working OK, so I have no idea why it is doing it. The way I even know it is happening is that it is the TIVO with the noisy fan when it goes into high speed. It never does unless it reboots...then it is back to slow speed and is quiet. I will replace the fan, and it is NOT the cause for the reboots, as the THD is only running at about 40C. I guess I can just get a new HD from WD as this is still in Warranty, but it still seems strange as all else seems to be working! In fact, if it were not for the fan issue, I would not even know this was going on!
> 
> Any ideas? I guess I can get a new Fan and WD drive.


Hmmm...does the fan stay on high for a long period after a reboot? Either way it seems more likely it's a sensor than a problematic fan. Fans just respond to what they're "told". If it wasn't working at all or stuck on high, then I'd be more suspicious of the fan itself. That said, I've no idea where TiVo's heat sensors are located.  I'll have to take a look the next time I'm on the "inside".

Someone local (Seattle) on Frontier FiOS posted in another thread that they were seeing unusual reboots so I suppose it could be a signal issue. Might be the hard drive as you suspect though.

Hmmm...


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Hmmm...does the fan stay on high for a long period after a reboot? Either way it seems more likely it's a sensor than a problematic fan. Fans just respond to what they're "told". If it wasn't working at all or stuck on high, then I'd be more suspicious of the fan itself. That said, I've no idea where TiVo's heat sensors are located.  I'll have to take a look the next time I'm on the "inside".
> 
> Someone local (Seattle) on Frontier FiOS posted in another thread that they were seeing unusual reboots so I suppose it could be a signal issue. Might be the hard drive as you suspect though.
> 
> Hmmm...


Thanks, Rich.

No, this is a fan issue, and has nothing to do with the reboot problem. In fact, I was only mentioning the fan noise as it is the only way I know that there was a reboot. The issue is that when it goes into high speed mode...only for a minute or two during a reboot, it gets VERY noisy...then it quiets down when it reverts back to its idle mode. Haven't you noticed that during a reboot the fan goes into high speed mode. All of my THD's do that. It is when the rpm's go up that this THD is noisy. Just a bearing issue I am sure.

I suppose I can check my signal level. I would hate to get a new drive...even if free...and not have it fix anything!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Thanks, Rich.
> 
> No, this is a fan issue, and has nothing to do with the reboot problem. In fact, I was only mentioning the fan noise as it is the only way I know that there was a reboot. The issue is that when it goes into high speed mode...only for a minute or two during a reboot, it gets VERY noisy...then it quiets down when it reverts back to its idle mode. Haven't you noticed that during a reboot the fan goes into high speed mode. All of my THD's do that. It is when the rpm's go up that this THD is noisy. Just a bearing issue I am sure.
> 
> I suppose I can check my signal level. I would hate to get a new drive...even if free...and not have it fix anything!


I didn't think the fan had any causal effect on the rebooting, I just thought it was odd that you were going to replace it if it's acting normally.  I have indeed heard the fan speed up and then return to normal during the boot process just as you describe.

I don't know if it's a signal level issue. I haven't seen any changes here. However if Frontier is messing around with the signal (they added CP to all except broadcast channels recently), whatever they're doing could be responsible for reboots. I have this nagging feeling in the back of my mind that they are experimenting with their "new toys" and don't think anyone will notice. I'm just waiting for the day that they screw things up royally and then shrug their shoulders, something they seem to have down pat.


----------



## crak

I upgraded my TivoHD to a 1.5 WD Ears hard drive successfully. I copied everything from the original hd to the new without a problem. The TiVo is rebooting every couple of days and I was reading through the upgrade instructions again and saw step18 where this pops up when your using a drive bigger than 1tb like the one I used. 
"Code:
You are about to create a partition larger than 1TB.
It's too large for a stock TiVo to support.
Do you want to limit it to 1TB?"
I clicked no, should I have clicked on yes? It was confusing to me.

Another question. Since I clicked no and I should have clicked yes, can I start from scratch, or can I go back to the supersized option and after that would it give me the 
"Code:
You are about to create a partition larger than 1TB.
It's too large for a stock TiVo to support.
Do you want to limit it to 1TB?" so I can then click on no. Any help will be appreciated. 
Oh by the way my drive has the stuck on welcome page reboot issue so I have to use wdidle3.exe on it.


----------



## hankbates

Robbdoe1 said:


> I would get a new drive. Maybe you will get lucky and get 1 that will not require running Wdidle3. I got mine at Newegg and it worked fine. Let us know how it works out please.
> 
> BTW: nice job backing it up before the drive kicked out. If I had oonly been so smart.
> 
> Robb


I just received another wd10evds, this one manufactured 9/26/2009, and I have just installed it in my Series 3. I wish I could report a glowing success, but nothing has changed.
Tivo doesn't get past the powering on screen, stays with four lights lit and nothing else.
This drive checks out fine with WDtools just like the previous drive.
Reinstalling the original WD2500xx drive lets it start up, and work properly unless I try to stream Netflix movies, as before.

It seems to me like there is something in the S3's firmware which doesn't like a 1TB drive, or (more likely) I stupidly omitted something while restoring the backup.
It doesn't seem like the backup is bad, as I have done two of them, and successfully restored the first one back into the 250gb drive.
I am also thinking that the intellipark problem doesn't apply here either, as most have stated that it manifests itself during restarts, not all the time.

I'm not sure whether I'm more baffled or more frustrated. Please, someone help me before I go out and buy an instantcake....

Hank


----------



## richsadams

hankbates said:


> I just received another wd10evds, this one manufactured 9/26/2009, and I have just installed it in my Series 3. I wish I could report a glowing success, but nothing has changed.
> Tivo doesn't get past the powering on screen, stays with four lights lit and nothing else.
> This drive checks out fine with WDtools just like the previous drive.
> Reinstalling the original WD2500xx drive lets it start up, and work properly unless I try to stream Netflix movies, as before.
> 
> It seems to me like there is something in the S3's firmware which doesn't like a 1TB drive, or (more likely) I stupidly omitted something while restoring the backup.
> It doesn't seem like the backup is bad, as I have done two of them, and successfully restored the first one back into the 250gb drive.
> I am also thinking that the intellipark problem doesn't apply here either, as most have stated that it manifests itself during restarts, not all the time.
> 
> I'm not sure whether I'm more baffled or more frustrated. Please, someone help me before I go out and buy an instantcake....
> 
> Hank


It's very possible that your drive will need the Intellipark timeout extended or disabled. There have been a number of reports of WD drives that will not even boot up without doing that and even on some drives manufactured after 09/15/10 now.

There are many, many Series3's that were successfully upgraded w/1TB drives (including mine) so that's not an issue.

I'd recommend running wdidle3.exe on your new drive and see if it won't boot up normally (providing that you followed all of the winMFS steps correctly). Doing so will not affect any of your data. All of the details can be found in Section IV, #29 of the first post on this thread.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> I didn't think the fan had any causal effect on the rebooting, I just thought it was odd that you were going to replace it if it's acting normally. I have indeed heard the fan speed up and then return to normal during the boot process just as you describe.
> 
> I don't know if it's a signal level issue. I haven't seen any changes here. However if Frontier is messing around with the signal (they added CP to all except broadcast channels recently), whatever they're doing could be responsible for reboots. I have this nagging feeling in the back of my mind that they are experimenting with their "new toys" and don't think anyone will notice. I'm just waiting for the day that they screw things up royally and then shrug their shoulders, something they seem to have down pat.


Rich, the problem with the fan is that when/if it goes into high speed mode for the minute or so it is rebooting, it is so loud you can hear it throughout the house. If it happens at night it wakes us up. Very bad bearing that gets very loud at high speed...otherwise quiet. I may just get a new one at Weaknees.

Also, are you saying that Frontier has added even more CP?


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Rich, the problem with the fan is that when/if it goes into high speed mode for the minute or so it is rebooting, it is so loud you can hear it throughout the house. If it happens at night it wakes us up. Very bad bearing that gets very loud at high speed...otherwise quiet. I may just get a new one at Weaknees.
> 
> Also, are you saying that Frontier has added even more CP?


Oh, got it. I've never heard of a TiVo fan doing that. 

The gentleman from the great state of Washington posted a change in CP a few weeks ago (and IIRC along with a couple of service outages) and although I haven't looked at all of the channels all I have checked except the local/broadcast now have CP.


----------



## Enkii

Before I take the plunge, I hoped to get some confirmation that what I want to do will work.

I have an original Series 3 that I bought from Weaknees with a 750G drive (i.e. I do not have the original unexpanded drive).

I'd like to do the following:

1. make a truncated backup of my existing 750G drive

2. replace the 750G drive with a 1T (WD10EVDS), preserving all of my recorded shows

Any issues doing these with WinMFS?

Thanks in advance for your help.


----------



## Robbdoe1

Enkii said:


> Before I take the plunge, I hoped to get some confirmation that what I want to do will work.
> 
> I have an original Series 3 that I bought from Weaknees with a 750G drive (i.e. I do not have the original unexpanded drive).
> 
> I'd like to do the following:
> 
> 1. make a truncated backup of my existing 750G drive
> 
> 2. replace the 750G drive with a 1T (WD10EVDS), preserving all of my recorded shows
> 
> Any issues doing these with WinMFS?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help.


To keep your existing recordings and settings you will need to perform a MFScopy. Both drives will need to be hooked up to the PC running Winmfs at the same time.

http://www.mfslive.org/winmfs/quickstart.htm

Doing a Truncated backup/restore to the new drive will work but you will not get your recordings. You will get settings (CC and SP's).

The top part of the guide is for a copy/restore and scroll down for a backup/restore. Read it before starting.

Either way you should have no issues using that drive other then a possible issue with Intellipark. If this issue occurs you will need to run Wdidle3 on the drive to disable the timeout. See the first post in this thread for a link to Wididle3. See section Five number 14.

Robb


----------



## Enkii

Robb,

Thanks for the confirmation. I understand what you're saying about not being able to keep my shows with the truncated backup -- I just want to keep that for emergencies.

Thanks again for the help. Time to order the drive!


----------



## Robbdoe1

Enkii said:


> Robb,
> 
> Thanks for the confirmation. I understand what you're saying about not being able to keep my shows with the truncated backup -- I just want to keep that for emergencies.
> 
> Thanks again for the help. Time to order the drive!


Your welcome.

If you don't mind let us know the date of manufacture of the drive they send you? If you really don't mind, try it without running Wdidle and let us know if you have any problems with the soft reboot issue. If need be you can always pull the drive and run Wdidle on it at any time without affecting anything.

Doing the above will give a few data points for future upgraders. Plus there is a guy who hangs around here that keeps track of this stuff .

Thanks.
Robb


----------



## unitron

MPSAN said:


> Rich, the problem with the fan is that when/if it goes into high speed mode for the minute or so it is rebooting, it is so loud you can hear it throughout the house. If it happens at night it wakes us up. Very bad bearing that gets very loud at high speed...otherwise quiet. I may just get a new one at Weaknees...


Are you sure that's your fan you hear complaining loudly during reboot and not your hard drive?

'Cause I'd suspect the hard drive first, especially if you've got a rebooting problem.

If it is the fan, you need to fix it NOW. If it makes that much noise, something's wrong with it. (I like to use a combination of ignition lube and 3 in 1 or sewing machine oil) If something's wrong with it, it's going to let the unit overheat. (You might try putting some of those rubber dome things on the bottom of the feet to raise the unit up a little so more air can rush in the bottom vents more easily)

If it's the hard drive, you *really* need to fix it NOW, 'cause it ain't gonna do nothing but get worse, and probably all of a sudden.


----------



## willard

RickStrobel said:


> I've successfully copied the old drive to the new one with WinMFS. I've rebooted the TiVo from the menu twice and it has come up both times. Guess that means that I don't need to tweak the Intellipark feature using wdidle3.exe?
> 
> Drive is WD15EVDS manufacture date of 13 Feb 2010. My friend ordered it from Amazon so it's a little surprising that it's so old. But it does seem to be fine on reboots.


Funny... I just received my WD15EVDS from Amazon and it too has a manufacture date of 13 Feb 2010. Here is hoping that it is the same batch and I do not have to 'Widdle' it as that will result in my having to use my work computer for a direct eSATA connection as I only have a laptop at home.

I also ordered and received from Amazon a Calvary usb dual drive dock at the same time as the drive. Its this one here: http://www.cavalrystorage.com/en-cahdd-d.aspx

Does anyone know if it will work for the WinMFS transfer process on a Windows XP laptop over usb 2.0?

Thanks.


----------



## MPSAN

unitron said:


> Are you sure that's your fan you hear complaining loudly during reboot and not your hard drive?
> 
> 'Cause I'd suspect the hard drive first, especially if you've got a rebooting problem.
> 
> If it is the fan, you need to fix it NOW. If it makes that much noise, something's wrong with it. (I like to use a combination of ignition lube and 3 in 1 or sewing machine oil) If something's wrong with it, it's going to let the unit overheat. (You might try putting some of those rubber dome things on the bottom of the feet to raise the unit up a little so more air can rush in the bottom vents more easily)
> 
> If it's the hard drive, you *really* need to fix it NOW, 'cause it ain't gonna do nothing but get worse, and probably all of a sudden.


Well, I ordered a fan and I will see. However, I believe it is the fan as the drive seems fine.


----------



## richsadams

willard said:


> Funny... I just received my WD15EVDS from Amazon and it too has a manufacture date of 13 Feb 2010. Here is hoping that it is the same batch and I do not have to 'Widdle' it as that will result in my having to use my work computer for a direct eSATA connection as I only have a laptop at home.
> 
> I also ordered and received from Amazon a Calvary usb dual drive dock at the same time as the drive. Its this one here: http://www.cavalrystorage.com/en-cahdd-d.aspx
> 
> Does anyone know if it will work for the WinMFS transfer process on a Windows XP laptop over usb 2.0?
> 
> Thanks.


1.5TB drives aren't nearly as popular as 1TB or even 2TB drives, so getting an "older" manufacture date on one is more likely. Agreed, hopefully it won't require wdidle.

That dock should work fine. If you want to do a full copy/backup to save your recordings, etc., I don't know that you can utilize it for both drives at the same time, but it's worth a try. I know that it won't with some Linux programs due to driver/recognition issues, but it would be good to know if it will work with dual drives using winMFS.


----------



## bkrodgers

bkrodgers said:


> Well, I'm thrilled to be able to report my successful upgrade to 2TB on my TivoHD!!!!! I ended up using a combination of Comer's JMFS tool for the Premiere, WinMFS, WDIDLE, and HDDScan. There were a couple of bumps in the road, but this absolutely works.
> 
> First, the goods. I picked up a WD20EARS on Amazon for $85. The manufacture date was 10/15/2010. I started out by running the extended test on it -- no problems. I was upgrading a THD that had never been upgraded before (I had been using it on an SD TV until recently, so the stock drive was good enough).
> 
> I started out by using JMFS to copy and expand the drive. I didn't try the supersize option at this point. I then used HDDScan to set AAM. I didn't do WDIDLE yet, to see if it was needed. I put the drive back in and powered up, and all was great -- I got the ~280 hours expected without supersize (can't remember the exact number right now). Did a soft reboot, and yes, it hung.
> 
> Popped the drive back in to do WDIDLE and supersize. WDIDLE had a hickup on my machine, because the SATA ports were in RAID mode (even though no RAID array was setup on the port I was using). JMFS was fine with it, but WDIDLE couldn't see the drive. Luckily my motherboard has an additional SATA port on a totally different controller, so I didn't have to turn RAID mode off (didn't want to do that unless necessary, as I feared my RAID arrays would need to be rebuilt). All good on the new port. The 10/15 manufactured drive *did* have intellipark turned on, so I turned it off with wdidle3 /D. I also used JMFS to supersize. Put things back in, and got a reboot loop. Uh oh. Wasn't too worried though, as I'd heard already that JMFS's supersize option didn't seem to work with THDs. I just wanted to try it out for the data point.
> 
> Drive back in the computer, used WinMFS to supersize. Drive back in the THD, and it booted up with no problems! I did not need to start over. Did a soft reboot, and it came up fine too. I'm now at 317 HD hours as expected, and I'm thrilled.
> 
> Here's what I'd recommend for anyone who wants to do this. Keep in mind this is THD only -- S3 doesn't work for JMFS:
> 
> Buy and test a WD20EARS
> Use the WDIDLE boot CD and disable Intellipark (WDIDLE3 /D) (This may not really be needed depending on how your drive is set, but be prepared to do it.)
> Use HDDScan to set AAM
> Use Comer's JMFS disk to copy and expand, but do NOT supersize
> Use WinMFS to supersize
> You're done! Enjoy your 317 HD hours!
> 
> I think it may be time to revise the FAQ. I think we now do have a reliable DIY method to expand a THD to 2TB.
> 
> I can't thank everyone here enough, especially Rich for all his advice and Comer for his great JMFS tool. I'm just giddy as I'm setting my season passes to 25 episodes in HD!!!!
> 
> -Brian


Just wanted to report back that the 2TB drive has been working flawlessly in my THD for the last week. I highly, highly, highly recommend this option to anyone with a THD. It's too bad you can't preserve recordings if you're upgrading from a previously upgraded drive, but if you're still on your stock drive or don't mind losing recordings, having 2TB is awesome.


----------



## synch22

Been itching for a premiere since the latest offers came out but decided after reading the reviews toying with my Lifetime Series 3 and Lifetime HD would be money better spent.

So read through the thread and just got my WD10EVDS (wow amazon free shipping acutally got here in 2 days)and it has a manufacture date of Sep 14th 2010..... very close to the date where some say you dont need the extra step for the intelli park are those dates indeed concrete?

Last upgrade was the series 2 i did maybe 6 years ago or so. I run a mac mini thee days but still have the Dell that did the upgrade 6 years ago so going to fire that up and download the programs.


UPDATE #1:


Decide to go ahead and try to disable the intellistart with the wdidle. Go to hook up my drive and my old dell is running what i think is PATA/IDE cable to hard drive connectors, im stuck. My boot drive is IDE to PATA and has the programs on it so if i wanted to hook up the other 2 drives at the same time I need adapters. Thought i would be ok since i did a Tivo series 2 with this, yes that was long ago. Wasnt too keen on the PATA vs SATA drives since ive been off the PC for a while. (since posting i see i can use USB to sata connectors or dual drive dock but still no help if i need to use the wdidle3).


----------



## richsadams

synch22 said:


> Been itching for a premiere since the latest offers came out but decided after reading the reviews toying with my Lifetime Series 3 and Lifetime HD would be money better spent.<snip>


 
Okay, I'm confused. Can you clarify a bit, briefly? What are you trying to do and why do you think you aren't able to do it?

If you're trying to run wdidle3.exe to adjust the Intellipark timeout feature you don't need your computer's boot drive at all. You'll be booting from the CD burned earlier. If your computer's hard drive is SATA you can simply pull the power and data cables and connect them to your new 1TB drive, boot up from the CD and make the adjustment. Or since the manufacture date is near the cutoff date of 09/15/10 you could simply try upgrading and see if it will boot up initially and if so if it will boot from a menu restart. If it does, you're golden. If not, then you can tweak the Intellipark feature.


----------



## synch22

richsadams said:


> Okay, I'm confused. Can you clarify a bit, briefly? What are you trying to do and why do you think you aren't able to do it?
> 
> If you're trying to run wdidle3.exe to adjust the Intellipark timeout feature you don't need your computer's boot drive at all. You'll be booting from the CD burned earlier. If your computer's hard drive is SATA you can simply pull the power and data cables and connect them to your new 1TB drive, boot up from the CD and make the adjustment. Or since the manufacture date is near the cutoff date of 09/15/10 you could simply try upgrading and see if it will boot up initially and if so if it will boot from a menu restart. If it does, you're golden. If not, then you can tweak the Intellipark feature.


Sorry did some editing to simplify. I got all the minor steps ready to upgrade and once i opened my PC i found it had IDE connections to PATA hard drives. So there was one snag that i have since found can potentially be fixed with adapters or a USB ot Sata connection if i do not indeed need the wdidle adjustment. But if I do need the adjustment to turn off the intellipark i need the internal connectors which are not even guaranteed to work with every mother board.

Thats my understanding of the jargon since i have been digging into it. Guess its more snags due to my old hardware. I wanted to hook up both hard drives at the same time for the copy over. I think an easier route may be just a settings upgrade so its one drive at a time and via a usb to sata adapter (wonder if the old dell is even usb 2.0 if that matters)


----------



## richsadams

synch22 said:


> Issue now is my dell is old and runs pata hard drives with older ide connectors. Per my research ive been doing since my post i need some kind of connectors for ide/sata. I agree i can see if i dont need the widdle program run and try a usb to sata connector but if that fails i am back to needing the internal adapter.
> So im stuck and need these additional adapters.
> Anyone had success with vmware in a mac running windows and the programs with usb connected to the hard drives?


Okay, got it now. It's possible that your PC's motherboard actually has a couple of SATA ports. (They were installing them over ten years ago...just not using them.) Google your MB's layout and see.

If you end up needing to adjust the Intellipark settings you will need a direct SATA connection...it won't work with a USB adapter. One option is to add a PCI/SATA card and connect your drive(s) to that.

Otherwise a USB/SATA dock or adapter should work for an upgrade using a truncated backup (via winMFS or MFSTools) or you'd need two docks or adapters to attach both your TiVo's original drive and your new 1TB drive if you want to save your recordings.

Best bet is to go with a dock (or two) like this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-S...3MKW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1292058969&sr=8-1

That will power your drive as well as allow data transfers.

Yes, some folks have used their Macs to upgrade...but again, if you need to run wdidle3.exe you'll still need a direct SATA connection.

Hope that helps and happy upgrading!


----------



## synch22

Rich,

Thanks for the feedback, I had been combing this thread for the last few days before i decided to attempt this and your posts to all have been very helpfull. I will see what i decide to do and report back what happens.


----------



## unitron

Hey,Rich, will the Intellipark utility work through a SATA to IDE/PATA adapter such as the ones discussed in the

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=416883

"List of SATA to PATA (IDE) adapters, please add yours" thread?

Is is strictly for SATA drives?

Did WD ever feature that feature on PATA drives?


----------



## richsadams

synch22 said:


> Rich,
> 
> Thanks for the feedback, I had been combing this thread for the last few days before i decided to attempt this and your posts to all have been very helpfull. I will see what i decide to do and report back what happens.


Glad to help. If you follow all of the upgrade steps in the first post you'll be fine. They look a little daunting at first, but once you start you'll see how simple it actually is. However, don't hesitate to post questions (or solutions!) any time.


----------



## richsadams

unitron said:


> Hey,Rich, will the Intellipark utility work through a SATA to IDE/PATA adapter such as the ones discussed in the
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=416883
> 
> "List of SATA to PATA (IDE) adapters, please add yours" thread?
> 
> Is is strictly for SATA drives?
> 
> Did WD ever feature that feature on PATA drives?


IIRC the Intellipark "feature" was introduced on WD GP hard drives about a year and a half ago now, so it's limited to SATA drives (although as you probably remember there were other concepts that attempted to save energy by spinning drives down, parking heads, etc. during idle times).

I don't know of anyone having used that particular adapter but my guess would be that it would not work. It's a matter of the program recognizing the drive and wdidle3.exe doesn't seem to recognize drives with anything but a direct SATA connection. Might be worth a try though.


----------



## unitron

richsadams said:


> ...
> 
> I don't know of anyone having used that particular adapter but my guess would be that it would not work...


Oh that it were "that particular adapter", but as one can see from the 3 pages and growing of that thread, it's "those adapters" and "which one with which chipset from which seller (during which phase of the moon) works with which drive in which TiVo", so there's a lot of "whichcraft" involved in picking the right one. : - )


----------



## richsadams

unitron said:


> Oh that it were "that particular adapter", but as one can see from the 3 pages and growing of that thread, it's "those adapters" and "which one with which chipset from which seller (during which phase of the moon) works with which drive in which TiVo", so there's a lot of "whichcraft" involved in picking the right one. : - )


Ah...only stopped at the first one mentioned. Still hard to say w/o trying every single one. I think I'll let someone else give that a shot. It would probably be easier just to find/bribe a friend with a modern PC.


----------



## unitron

richsadams said:


> Ah...only stopped at the first one mentioned. Still hard to say w/o trying every single one. I think I'll let someone else give that a shot. It would probably be easier just to find/bribe a friend with a modern PC.


Actually most all of the adapters mentioned in that thread will work in most PC's to do MFS stuff.

It's trying to find out which one you can trust with a particular drive in your particular model TiVo that involves reading goat entrails and sprinkling chicken blood all around under a full moon and whether to do it counterclockwise or in a figure 8.

It ain't easy being a Series 1/Series 2 wrangler.


----------



## richsadams

unitron said:


> Actually most all of the adapters mentioned in that thread will work in most PC's to do MFS stuff.
> 
> It's trying to find out which one you can trust with a particular drive in your particular model TiVo that involves reading goat entrails and sprinkling chicken blood all around under a full moon and whether to do it counterclockwise or in a figure 8.
> 
> It ain't easy being a Series 1/Series 2 wrangler.


MFS yes, but I was referring to an adapter to adjust the Intellipark feature using wdidle3.exe in which case no adapter has worked AFAIK.

Otherwise most of the docks and adapters will work with most any drive and MFSTools or winMFS.


----------



## hankbates

I ran wdidle3 and it showed 8 seconds, and then I ran wdidle3 /d, and it showed the expected 3000+ seconds, so the WD10evds built in Sept 2009 must have the same issues as I was expecting. Great!!
I reinstalled the drive, and got the following:  
Now, when I start up, every 30 seconds the tivo shows the welcome screen, then the screen goes black, the four lights and the logo go out, and it all starts over again and again.
As a reminder, when I take this same backup file and restore it to the original 250gb drive (WD2500Bs), it started right up and the tivo works. In fact, I used it tonight just before I put the new drive in. 
I am even more frustrated than before. 
Should I just send this drive (the second WD10evds I have tried) back and take some other approach?
Should I try again with another backup from the working 250gb drive? Any ideas as to what I might be doing wrong?
I guess I will run wdtools again on the second wd10evds, but this didn't show any errors before I ran wdidle3.
Hank



richsadams said:


> It's very possible that your drive will need the Intellipark timeout extended or disabled. There have been a number of reports of WD drives that will not even boot up without doing that and even on some drives manufactured after 09/15/10 now.
> 
> There are many, many Series3's that were successfully upgraded w/1TB drives (including mine) so that's not an issue.
> 
> I'd recommend running wdidle3.exe on your new drive and see if it won't boot up normally (providing that you followed all of the winMFS steps correctly). Doing so will not affect any of your data. All of the details can be found in Section IV, #29 of the first post on this thread.
> 
> Good luck and let us know how it goes!


----------



## synch22

Ive decided to throw in the towel. Tried to install a pci sata card on my old dell and did so just fine. Only issue was i could never get the drive plugged in via the sata cable to show up. I installed all drivers and updates and it failed to work, or i just didnt know how to properly do it.

So uninstalled that and took it back to Fry's, 4 + hours wasted. My equipment is obsolete to make this go smoothly. When i did the old series 2 long ago it was so easy and smooth my expectations were too high this go around.

Now if i try the usb sata adapter i am afraid in the end my WD10edvs will indeed need the wdidle performed which i will have no way of doing.

Jeez...

If anyone is in Seattle and wouldnt mind helping me out i can throw a few bucks your way for the trouble. I can bring both hard drives to get this done with, we are in for some nasty days ahead


----------



## richsadams

hankbates said:


> I ran wdidle3 and it showed 8 seconds, and then I ran wdidle3 /d, and it showed the expected 3000+ seconds, so the WD10evds built in Sept 2009 must have the same issues as I was expecting. Great!!
> I reinstalled the drive, and got the following:
> Now, when I start up, every 30 seconds the tivo shows the welcome screen, then the screen goes black, the four lights and the logo go out, and it all starts over again and again.
> As a reminder, when I take this same backup file and restore it to the original 250gb drive (WD2500Bs), it started right up and the tivo works. In fact, I used it tonight just before I put the new drive in.
> I am even more frustrated than before.
> Should I just send this drive (the second WD10evds I have tried) back and take some other approach?
> Should I try again with another backup from the working 250gb drive? Any ideas as to what I might be doing wrong?
> I guess I will run wdtools again on the second wd10evds, but this didn't show any errors before I ran wdidle3.
> Hank


It's certainly possible that you received a second bad drive, but not likely. Try extending the Intellipark timeout instead of disabling it. There have been several others that ran into issues when they used the disable command. Use the command recommended in the FAQ: "wdidle3 /S300". That will extend the timeout to five minutes which has proven to eliminate the initial and/or soft reboot problem in every circumstance.

Otherwise, and I'm guessing you have, but be sure you're following every step in the upgrade process to the letter and there's no reason that you shouldn't be good to go.

Hope that helps and best of luck!


----------



## richsadams

synch22 said:


> Ive decided to throw in the towel. Tried to install a pci sata card on my old dell and did so just fine. Only issue was i could never get the drive plugged in via the sata cable to show up. I installed all drivers and updates and it failed to work, or i just didnt know how to properly do it.
> 
> So uninstalled that and took it back to Fry's, 4 + hours wasted. My equipment is obsolete to make this go smoothly. When i did the old series 2 long ago it was so easy and smooth my expectations were too high this go around.
> 
> Now if i try the usb sata adapter i am afraid in the end my WD10edvs will indeed need the wdidle performed which i will have no way of doing.
> 
> Jeez...
> 
> If anyone is in Seattle and wouldnt mind helping me out i can throw a few bucks your way for the trouble. I can bring both hard drives to get this done with, we are in for some nasty days ahead


Ugh...sorry to hear that. You could go ahead and try the upgrade and see how things go...your new drive may not need the Intellipark feature tweaked at all. The only way to find out would be to perform the upgrade and boot up. If it boots up okay then try a menu restart. Even if the menu restart didn't work it's not the end of the world. It would just mean that you would have to power-cycle your TiVo after an update (happens 2 to 4 times a year). Eventually you might find a friend with a newer PC that you could bribe. 

If it were me I'd go ahead and upgrade, see what happens and cross the next bridge if it comes to that.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

I use a pci SATA card in my old Dell Optiplex for my upgrades.

The card is recognized on boot-up, during the POST (power on self test). I don't recall, but there may have been some BIOS settings I had to modify, did you try that?



synch22 said:


> Ive decided to throw in the towel. Tried to install a pci sata card on my old dell and did so just fine. Only issue was i could never get the drive plugged in via the sata cable to show up. I installed all drivers and updates and it failed to work, or i just didnt know how to properly do it.
> 
> So uninstalled that and took it back to Fry's, 4 + hours wasted. My equipment is obsolete to make this go smoothly. When i did the old series 2 long ago it was so easy and smooth my expectations were too high this go around.
> 
> Now if i try the usb sata adapter i am afraid in the end my WD10edvs will indeed need the wdidle performed which i will have no way of doing.
> 
> Jeez...
> 
> If anyone is in Seattle and wouldnt mind helping me out i can throw a few bucks your way for the trouble. I can bring both hard drives to get this done with, we are in for some nasty days ahead


----------



## hankbates

[After thinking a little bit about how the drive responded after wdidle3 /d (instead of just sitting there with no response in the welcome screen, it moved on after 30 secons when it restarted0, I thought I would try to do everything over again:
Restoring the boot page did nothing
But restoring the second drive image I had made allowed the wd10evds to boot up, access all my old settings, etc. , without needing to go back and run wdidle3 again /s300.
All appears to be well, thanks a lot for your help, an hope this info helps your database.
Hank

QUOTE=richsadams;8275271]It's certainly possible that you received a second bad drive, but not likely. Try extending the Intellipark timeout instead of disabling it. There have been several others that ran into issues when they used the disable command. Use the command recommended in the FAQ: "wdidle3 /S300". That will extend the timeout to five minutes which has proven to eliminate the initial and/or soft reboot problem in every circumstance.

Otherwise, and I'm guessing you have, but be sure you're following every step in the upgrade process to the letter and there's no reason that you shouldn't be good to go.

Hope that helps and best of luck![/QUOTE]


----------



## richsadams

hankbates said:


> [After thinking a little bit about how the drive responded after wdidle3 /d (instead of just sitting there with no response in the welcome screen, it moved on after 30 secons when it restarted0, I thought I would try to do everything over again:
> Restoring the boot page did nothing
> But restoring the second drive image I had made allowed the wd10evds to boot up, access all my old settings, etc. , without needing to go back and run wdidle3 again /s300.
> All appears to be well, thanks a lot for your help, an hope this info helps your database.
> Hank


 Phew! That's awesome. Glad you hung in there...now enjoy!


----------



## scottb4u

I WDIDLE3'd, expanded and supersized my S3. Everything has worked PERFECTLY for the last month or so. 

I watched last night. This morning it is stuck on reboot! For the first time ever! I, in fact, disabled the intellipark.

Do I go back and undisable and set it for 300 sec.? Could I have a bad drive? Was there a software update last night that killed me? HELP....

EDIT: I disconnected an attached drive, and it got past the "power up" screen and told me the DVR is not connected. BTW, I upgraded two 1tb drives using MFS tools..Could my external drive be bad?


----------



## richsadams

scottb4u said:


> I WDIDLE3'd, expanded and supersized my S3. Everything has worked PERFECTLY for the last month or so.
> 
> I watched last night. This morning it is stuck on reboot! For the first time ever! I, in fact, disabled the intellipark.
> 
> Do I go back and undisable and set it for 300 sec.? Could I have a bad drive? Was there a software update last night that killed me? HELP....
> 
> EDIT: I disconnected an attached drive, and it got past the "power up" screen and told me the DVR is not connected. BTW, I upgraded two 1tb drives using MFS tools..Could my external drive be bad?


If everything was working normally for a month it's not likely that it's an Intellipark (wdidle3.exe) issue, providing that you tried a menu restart after upgrading.

You say you disconnected the external drive and got past the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen. Then you received an error message. Was it this one?










If you were able to get to that screen it sounds like there's an issue with the external hard drive, something as small as a bad connection or it could be a faulty eSATA cable or it could be a failed drive.

The first thing I would do is unplug TiVo and the external drive. Then reconnect the external drive, be sure connections on both ends are snug, power up the external drive and then plug TiVo back in (all in that order). That may do it or it may not.

If not I'd run one of TiVo's built-in diagnostic and repair programs called "Kickstarts", specifically KS54 SMART. That can tell you if the internal or external drive is failing. It isn't fool-proof, but it may be able to give you a pass or fail response. Here are the Kickstart instructions:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

I'd also have a look at this troubleshooting post and see if anything fits:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7553444#post7553444

If that doesn't do it you may have to properly divorce the external drive and see if TiVo will boot up normally. If so I'd test the external drive using Western Digital's Lifeguard.

Hope that helps and let us know how it goes!


----------



## synch22

richsadams said:


> Ugh...sorry to hear that. You could go ahead and try the upgrade and see how things go...your new drive may not need the Intellipark feature tweaked at all. The only way to find out would be to perform the upgrade and boot up. If it boots up okay then try a menu restart. Even if the menu restart didn't work it's not the end of the world. It would just mean that you would have to power-cycle your TiVo after an update (happens 2 to 4 times a year). Eventually you might find a friend with a newer PC that you could bribe.
> 
> If it were me I'd go ahead and upgrade, see what happens and cross the next bridge if it comes to that.


Making one last shot of it with a USB to Sata adapter, just got one since i can do without recordings on the other drive. I will post the results the adapter is in the mail, talk about pushing on... wife thinks im nuts.


----------



## richsadams

synch22 said:


> ... wife thinks im nuts.


Only because of this?  Consider yourself a lucky man!


----------



## scottb4u

My S3 is in trouble...

My MFS expanded 1tb WDC drive with "married" 1tb esata has been working perfectly. Bought 2 virgin drives, did wdidle3 and married them in winMFS. Worked like a charm.

This unit was brought upstairs to make room for a new Premier so I'm using a Tivo N wireless adapter. The other night I notice it had not updated the guide so I run network diagnostics. It did'nt work so I unplugged and reconnected the adapter and it worked.

Last night everything worked perfectly. 

This morning I wake to see the startup lights on the Tivo lit. It was stuck in "powering up" reboot mode. I disconect and reconnect power; same thing. I disconnect power, disconnect external drive. Boots and tells me I need the external drive. I replug everything back up and stuck on "power up".

I take everything apart and place my primary drive in winmfs and fix the boot partition. It now gets past the "power up" and gets to "almost there". then it begins again at power up, almost there, etc. 

I took off the external married drive but I'm still stuck in the cycle. I know this has happened before. How do I divorce the drive in winmfs? Would that work?

HELP...


----------



## scottb4u

I'm now running KS57 and after the green screen telling me not to unplug, I reboot over and over again. Normal?

Plus, I cannot divorce the external drive as it is "married". I get stuck in reboot mode. How can I seperate them to assure the drives are good?

BTW--I do have my original, untouched drive from which I copied for the expanded disk. Must I go out and buy new drives and start over? 

Is there a way to "erase" what is on the expanded and married drives so as to "re-do" the MFS proceedure?


----------



## richsadams

scottb4u said:


> I'm now running KS57 and after the green screen telling me not to unplug, I reboot over and over again. Normal?
> 
> Plus, I cannot divorce the external drive as it is "married". I get stuck in reboot mode. How can I seperate them to assure the drives are good?


Ugh. It sounds like your internal drive is failing. It may be that the data is corrupted but whatever the case I think it 's back to the original drive for an image to start over again. (Please tell us that you have the original drive on the shelf.)

That said you could give a couple of the other Kickstarts a try but I don't hold out much hope...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

If nothing seems to work I'd run Western Digital's Lifeguard diagnostic on both drives and see what comes back. If they pass the extended diagnostic you could try re-imaging the internal drive. Otherwise a new drive may be in your future.

Be sure to leave your old drive in TiVo long enough for it to update to the current version before using it to upgrade again. Or if you want to receive the latest update ASAP you can try forcing a connection to TiVo to see if it will download. (It may take several connections before the update will appear.)

1. TiVo Central
2. Messages and settings
3. Settings
4. Phone and network
5. Connect to the TiVo service now

Once the download has finished and loaded look at the "Last Status" line on that screen or in System Information and if it says "Pending restart" instead of a date your new software will automatically install at 2 a.m. your time. Or you can reboot TiVo and it will install the update immediately. You will see these two screens during the reboot process when it does.

You can reboot TiVo via the menu screens:

1. TiVo Central
2. Messages & Setup
3. Restart or reset system
4. Restart the TiVo DVR

Or you can simply unplug it, wait about 10 seconds for the hard drive to spin down and plug it back in.

Probably not the answer you wanted to hear but best of luck and let us know how things go.


----------



## scottb4u

Rich--you are indefatigueable! 

Can I just drop the drive in and re-do winmfs? will it let me? I think it tells me that the drive is already married to another drive...


----------



## richsadams

scottb4u said:


> Rich--you are indefatigueable!
> 
> Can I just drop the drive in and re-do winmfs? will it let me? I think it tells me that the drive is already married to another drive...


If you update and use the original drive winMFS will reformat your 1TB drive so you s/b good to go. If you want you can still marry your external drive at the same time. I'd still run diagnostics on both 1TB drives to be sure they're good first.


----------



## Robbdoe1

scottb4u said:


> Rich--you are indefatigueable!
> 
> Can I just drop the drive in and re-do winmfs? will it let me? I think it tells me that the drive is already married to another drive...


And he never gets tired either 

Robb


----------



## richsadams

Robbdoe1 said:


> And he never gets tired either
> 
> Robb


 YAWN /YAWN. Um...what did you say?


----------



## kmackenz

Hi All,

Like many others it seems my S3 drive (original) is on it's last legs. So thinking of replaceing the drive myself. looks pretty straight forward... with the exception of what drive to I use. This one http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002P3KO74?tag=freelydownloa-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=B002P3KO74&adid=15E48VJQWFHVCJ11E5ZA& seems popular. Thoughts? Someone else used this one: http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Intellipower-Desktop-WD15EARS/dp/B002ZCXJZE/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t

Thoghts and/or recommendations would be appreciated!

Sorry for the repost, guessing it is a repost... but been reading for days in this thread!!


----------



## Robbdoe1

kmackenz said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Like many others it seems my S3 drive (original) is on it's last legs. So thinking of replaceing the drive myself. looks pretty straight forward... with the exception of what drive to I use. This one http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002P3KO74?tag=freelydownloa-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=B002P3KO74&adid=15E48VJQWFHVCJ11E5ZA& seems popular. Thoughts? Someone else used this one: http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Intellipower-Desktop-WD15EARS/dp/B002ZCXJZE/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t
> 
> Thoghts and/or recommendations would be appreciated!
> 
> Sorry for the repost, guessing it is a repost... but been reading for days in this thread!!


I used this guy:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136496&Tpk=wd10evds

No Intellipark issue to fool with.

Robb


----------



## Robbdoe1

richsadams said:


> YAWN /YAWN. Um...what did you say?


My first thought was he was calling you a bad name. Then I Googled it . Must have been the word of the day for sure. I gotta get out more.

My wife says I'm "Indaroomwiththetivotoomuch".

Robb


----------



## kmackenz

Robbdoe1 said:


> I used this guy:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136496&Tpk=wd10evds
> 
> No Intellipark issue to fool with.
> 
> Robb


Great thanks.


----------



## richsadams

kmackenz said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Like many others it seems my S3 drive (original) is on it's last legs. So thinking of replaceing the drive myself. looks pretty straight forward... with the exception of what drive to I use. This one http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002P3KO74?tag=freelydownloa-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=B002P3KO74&adid=15E48VJQWFHVCJ11E5ZA& seems popular. Thoughts? Someone else used this one: http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Intellipower-Desktop-WD15EARS/dp/B002ZCXJZE/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t
> 
> Thoghts and/or recommendations would be appreciated!
> 
> Sorry for the repost, guessing it is a repost... but been reading for days in this thread!!


The first hard drive that you linked is the same drive that Rob recommended (WD10EVDS) and a good choice. You could also use the second one but you'd only be able to utilize 1.26TB's of the total 1.5TB's of space and it will need the AAM and possibly the Intellipark feature tweaked (see the FAQ for more info about those topics).

I'd really like to see someone here try the latest WD GP A/V dedicated hard drive line, the WD10EURS and report back:

http://www.amazon.com/5400RPM-Buffe...1JTY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1292365780&sr=8-1

A couple of folks have used the larger 2TB WD20EURS on Premiere upgrades and seem to be quite happy with them, but AFAIK no one has tried the 1TB version. It should work quite well, quiet and cool and shouldn't require any tweaking at all. Care to become a member of the TiVo Pioneer Club?


----------



## synch22

First shot at the upgrade followed all instructions and cant even get past "welcome powering up screen", is that most likely intellipark?


----------



## richsadams

synch22 said:


> First shot at the upgrade followed all instructions and cant even get past "welcome powering up screen", is that most likely intellipark?


Most likely. When TiVo hangs at the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen it means that the motherboard cannot communicate with the hard drive. If the drive is connected (you should be able to hear it spin up when you plug TiVo in) and it's hanging, the Intellipark feature's timeout will probably need to be adjusted to 300 seconds.


----------



## synch22

richsadams said:


> Most likely. When TiVo hangs at the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen it means that the motherboard cannot communicate with the hard drive. If the drive is connected (you should be able to hear it spin up when you plug TiVo in) and it's hanging, the Intellipark feature's timeout will probably need to be adjusted to 300 seconds.


Hmm.. pulled it and reformatted and went through restore steps again. I hear very little hard drive activity even though its powered its still hanging, disappointing.

Original back in and up and running. I would be lying if the thought didnt cross my mind that the whole thing would die on me  .

So there i am 8 hours in (total time) and no success. I never even once ran out of space on the 35 hd hour original drive but wanted to do this as a "project", plus i could use what would seem like unlimited recording space. I wont get into the fact i had a lousy non magnetic tool from Frys that was not even long enough to catch that front screw (took some serious work) to get it out, all my fault since it stated in the directions what to have on hand

If i in fact run the wdidle 3 will the upgraded drive work? Were there reports of people hanging on the original power up due to intellipark? I am going to need to track down a pc user who will let me open up their pc and try this, which i dont think will be easy. Most my friends are mac or laptop only folks.

Dejected right now... lol


----------



## richsadams

synch22 said:


> If i in fact run the wdidle 3 will the upgraded drive work? Were there reports of people hanging on the original power up due to intellipark? I am going to need to track down a pc user who will let me open up their pc and try this, which i dont think will be easy. Most my friends are mac or laptop only folks.
> 
> Dejected right now... lol


Yes, wdidle3.exe modifies the firmware, nothing to do with drive data so running it first or last works fine.

Yes, folks have reported hangs on both the menu restart as well as the initial boot up. After running wdidle3.exe, no hangs.

Bribing folks with PC's isn't unheard of.


----------



## unitron

Is there any way to plug into a Series 2's serial port and see what's going on at boot time the way you can with a Series 1?

It sure would be a diagnostic aid.


----------



## kmackenz

Well, went with the "safe" one that others are using. Need to get my series 3 backup before I have a revolt at the house!! So no pioneering this time... was very close!

Thank you all very much!!!


----------



## richsadams

kmackenz said:


> Well, went with the "safe" one that others are using. Need to get my series 3 backup before I have a revolt at the house!! So no pioneering this time... was very close!
> 
> Thank you all very much!!!


Happy upgrading!


----------



## Ladd Morse

synch22 said:


> Ive decided to throw in the towel. Tried to install a pci sata card on my old dell and did so just fine. Only issue was i could never get the drive plugged in via the sata cable to show up. I installed all drivers and updates and it failed to work, or i just didnt know how to properly do it.


you must have a REALLY old Dell; we're an all Mac house and I have one old Dell PC just for doing TiVo stuff. It's a 266 MHz Dimension XPS (yes, 266 MHz) and the SATA card I put in there (PNY SATA RAID 2 Channel) works just fine and drives connected to it are recognized by JMFS .iso I used to prepare a 2 TB drive for one of my TiVo HDs. The Dell is really, really slow, but it works.


----------



## synch22

richsadams said:


> Yes, wdidle3.exe modifies the firmware, nothing to do with drive data so running it first or last works fine.
> 
> Yes, folks have reported hangs on both the menu restart as well as the initial boot up. After running wdidle3.exe, no hangs.
> 
> Bribing folks with PC's isn't unheard of.


Done and the upgrade is now a success. Stopped at a local computer repair shop and handed the guy my hard drive and boot disc and he ran it for me, threw him some beer money for the trouble. Plugged the drive in and all is well. Thanks for the tips and motivation to see this through.

Now i am back on thinking about a premiere upgrade with pls, guess sometimes this never ends.

One thing to add on the WD green drives, the repair shop guy actually told me he would return it. He has seen many of them fail, 3 this week actually. I mentioned the tivo forums have had success with it so we will see. He mentioned it may have to do with the enclosures or how they are handled within the PC's or enclosures.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Now that's a unique solution! Way to think outside the box.


synch22 said:


> Done and the upgrade is now a success. Stopped at a local computer repair shop and handed the guy my hard drive and boot disc and he ran it for me, threw him some beer money for the trouble. Plugged the drive in and all is well. Thanks for the tips and motivation to see this through.
> 
> Now i am back on thinking about a premiere upgrade with pls, guess sometimes this never ends.


----------



## richsadams

synch22 said:


> Done and the upgrade is now a success. Stopped at a local computer repair shop and handed the guy my hard drive and boot disc and he ran it for me, threw him some beer money for the trouble. Plugged the drive in and all is well. Thanks for the tips and motivation to see this through.


 Awesome!



synch22 said:


> One thing to add on the WD green drives, the repair shop guy actually told me he would return it. He has seen many of them fail, 3 this week actually. I mentioned the tivo forums have had success with it so we will see. He mentioned it may have to do with the enclosures or how they are handled within the PC's or enclosures.


He recommended returning the drive? If it's a perfectly good drive? Since the WD GP drive series is one of the most popular on the market I'd imagine any repair shop sees it's share of failed drives, but why would he recommend returning a perfectly good drive? Or did I misunderstand? FWIW I've worked through about a half-dozen of them or more in TiVo's, computers as backup drives, etc. in the past few years and they have all been flawless.

In any case, enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## synch22

richsadams said:


> Awesome!
> 
> He recommended returning the drive? If it's a perfectly good drive? Since the WD GP drive series is one of the most popular on the market I'd imagine any repair shop sees it's share of failed drives, but why would he recommend returning a perfectly good drive? Or did I misunderstand? FWIW I've worked through about a half-dozen of them or more in TiVo's, computers as backup drives, etc. in the past few years and they have all been flawless.
> 
> In any case, enjoy your "new" TiVo!


He just thought since I was within the return period I should return the drive and use a Western Digital Black drive. He was just sharing his opinion, im sticking with it based on the recomendations here.


----------



## richsadams

synch22 said:


> He just thought since I was within the return period I should return the drive and use a Western Digital Black drive. He was just sharing his opinion, im sticking with it based on the recomendations here.


Ah, got it. A WD Black would be completely wasted in a TiVo. There's no advantage to a 7200 RPM drive (in fact it can be a disadvantage since they run hotter than a GP drive) or in a larger cache.

Enjoy!


----------



## unitron

richsadams said:


> Ah, got it. A WD Black would be completely wasted in a TiVo. There's no advantage to a 7200 RPM drive (in fact it can be a disadvantage since they run hotter than a GP drive) or in a larger cache.
> 
> Enjoy!


Speaking of Blacks, I asked earlier about the WD1001FALS, which was the Black Friday special at Best Buy.

Well, I yielded to convenience and instant gratification, went in Black Saturday around 6pm and got one of the several they had left, went home, imaged it and tried it, and it seemed to run remarkably more coolly and more quietly than I would have expected, so I went online before midnight and grabbed more at the same price. So far, so good. Right now I'm running one each in 2 TCD649080s with no problems so far and I've got a TwinBreeze on order to put a second one in one of the machines. (that would be the one where my mom maxed out a 500GB WD5000AKB--another nice drive--a whole lot sooner than I ever expected. I hope 2 TB will hold her for awhile until I build my external TivoRaid box : - )


----------



## richsadams

unitron said:


> Speaking of Blacks, I asked earlier about the WD1001FALS, which was the Black Friday special at Best Buy.
> 
> Well, I yielded to convenience and instant gratification, went in Black Saturday around 6pm and got one of the several they had left, went home, imaged it and tried it, and it seemed to run remarkably more coolly and more quietly than I would have expected, so I went online before midnight and grabbed more at the same price. So far, so good. Right now I'm running one each in 2 TCD649080s with no problems so far and I've got a TwinBreeze on order to put a second one in one of the machines. (that would be the one where my mom maxed out a 500GB WD5000AKB--another nice drive--a whole lot sooner than I ever expected. I hope 2 TB will hold her for awhile until I build my external TivoRaid box : - )


Sweet! :up: What a good son.


----------



## SandDune

Well I've had a great 18 month run on the two Seagate Pipelines I put in (one internal, one external) after my WD TiVo Expander died. But now 18 months later the external drive is dying again. In the SMART tests, I'm getting a FAIL 7 for Short, Conveyance, and Extended Tests. I assume this is actually the drive and not the cable (which I've already switched out) or the Antec MX-1 case. With a failure in all three, don't know if there is much I can do other then pull the drive.

Fortunately the Pipelines have a 3 year warrantee on them. Unfortunately its going to mean loosing most of the recordings when I pull the external drive and send it back to Seagate, and my family won't be happy with that one. I guess spending a bit more doesn't always guarantee better results.

Andrew


----------



## dswallow

SandDune said:


> Well I've had a great 18 month run on the two Seagate Pipelines I put in (one internal, one external) after my WD TiVo Expander died. But now 18 months later the external drive is dying again. In the SMART tests, I'm getting a FAIL 7 for Short, Conveyance, and Extended Tests. I assume this is actually the drive and not the cable (which I've already switched out) or the Antec MX-1 case. With a failure in all three, don't know if there is much I can do other then pull the drive.
> 
> Fortunately the Pipelines have a 3 year warrantee on them. Unfortunately its going to mean loosing most of the recordings when I pull the external drive and send it back to Seagate, and my family won't be happy with that one. I guess spending a bit more doesn't always guarantee better results.
> 
> Andrew


Get a replacement cross-shipped and copy the drive contents over to the new one using a utility that's tolerant of errors on the source; ought to at least let you keep your existing recordings that way.


----------



## unitron

dswallow said:


> Get a replacement cross-shipped and copy the drive contents over to the new one using a utility that's tolerant of errors on the source; ought to at least let you keep your existing recordings that way.


If both drives have the same number of LBAs, I recommend using dd_rescue (on MFS Live CD) *in reverse* after wrapping the "bad" drive in a couple of layers of paper towels and letting it spend the night in the freezer.


----------



## HD_Dude

Hi everyone...

One of my S3's froze up recently, stuck on 'Powering Up...' and from the 'clicking' sound I realized it was a hard drive failure. It was the original, and from my experience, hard drives have a 3-4 year lifespan, so I wasn't surprised, or upset.

Plus, this S3 had just HD Disney shows for the kids, which are on all day, so they're easily replaceable.

After researching here, and other forums, I decided to give DVR-Dude a try. I went on eBay and bought one of his 1TB S3 hard drives...fully imaged with the TiVo software. Great price.

I placed the order Saturday...it arrived Monday. Granted he's in VA and I'm in DC but jeez...that was lightning fast.

Replaced it, using his directions. Powered up immediately. Obviously had to do the guided setup again. And as soon as the channel data was downloaded and installed, I had all my channels, SD and HD, except premiums.

So, popped out CableCard #2, called Comcast...read the guy my numbers for CC #1, and all my premiums appeared on tuner 1. Popped CC #2 back in, read the guy those numbers, premiums appeared on tuner 2. No service call required...I was amazed.

So, I'm back in business, with 1TB of storage.

Just wanted everyone to know how well this went. DVR_Dude is a great asset. Provided a perfect hard drive, already imaged.

And Comcast? Man, somebody there knew exactly what they were doing. I was surprised and delighted.

I thought replacing the drive would be a hassle, but I lucked out.

Just thought you'd like to know!

Happy Holidays!


----------



## Enkii

Followup on my post from a couple of pages back. I wanted to swap the 750GB drive in my original Series 3 for a 1TB, keeping all of my shows.

I'm pleased to report that (so far) I have been successful. Still have my shows, can still tune my cable channels, still have programs scheduled to record, etc. System info shows 157hr HD capacity, which I think is correct for this size.

I used a Western Digital WD10EVDS, and Robb asked:



Robbdoe1 said:


> If you don't mind let us know the date of manufacture of the drive they send you? If you really don't mind, try it without running Wdidle and let us know if you have any problems with the soft reboot issue. If need be you can always pull the drive and run Wdidle on it at any time without affecting anything.
> 
> Doing the above will give a few data points for future upgraders. Plus there is a guy who hangs around here that keeps track of this stuff .
> 
> Thanks.
> Robb


My drive is dated 15 Sept 2010, and I have successfully done a soft reboot without having run wdidle. I also checked the AAM value with hddscan, and it was already set to 128.

Following the directions at the top of this thread, doing the actual copying of the data went flawlessly (and took about 3.5hrs). I suppose that this is a really straightforward use of the tools, but what made it a bit more interesting in my eyes is that I did this on my Mac.

I've seen little info about using a Mac for this, so for those who might be interested, here's a quick rundown on what I did.


Created a Boot Camp partition using the Apple Boot Camp Assistant utility. I was very pleased with how well this worked; you can both create and remove Boot Camp partitions, without destroying existing data on the Mac partition in either case. The Boot Camp partition must be created on a disk with only a single Mac volume. I ended up removing and recreating the Boot Camp partition three times, due to failures of Windows setup due to "Disk Errors."
Installed Windows XP Home. This took 3 tries and only worked after I reduced the Boot Camp partition size to 13GB.
Installed both Tivo drives into my Mac Pro. This was the first time I've actually used all four bays simultaneously. I originally tried to use an eSATA dock, but the drives were not accessable. I think that this should have worked, so I might investigate further. Could possibly be some driver issue under Boot Camp; this has been my first experience using that.
Ran hddscan and winmfs as normal.

Overall, the Tivo-specific part of all of this worked great. The only hiccups were on the Windows side, and possibly Boot Camp, but I ultimately got what I was after.

Thanks to everyone who takes the time to contribute their expertise to this thread.


----------



## richsadams

Enkii said:


> Followup on my post from a couple of pages back. I wanted to swap the 750GB drive in my original Series 3 for a 1TB, keeping all of my shows.
> 
> I'm pleased to report that (so far) I have been successful. Still have my shows, can still tune my cable channels, still have programs scheduled to record, etc. System info shows 157hr HD capacity, which I think is correct for this size.
> 
> I used a Western Digital WD10EVDS, and Robb asked:


Excellent news and thanks for the additional info! :up:

FWIW Boot Camp and XP no longer play nice together (documented in a number of other forums). I have Win7 Ultimate on Boot Camp on my MBA and it works very well, but like you there were initial installation issues, all on the Windows side (same issues when I installed it on a PC ).

Glad to hear things are going well so enjoy and the happiest of holidays!


----------



## richsadams

HD_Dude said:


> After researching here, and other forums, I decided to give DVR-Dude a try. I went on eBay and bought one of his 1TB S3 hard drives...fully imaged with the TiVo software. Great price.


Sweet news all around! Excellent to hear more positive feedback about DVRDude's drives for those that don't want to DIY and really nice news about how well Comcast performed. That part used to be a very painful experience but I think they are getting better at this as time goes by and they're exposed to more TiVo's.

Hope you have some time off to enjoy your "new" TiVo for the holidays!


----------



## unitron

richsadams said:


> Excellent news and thanks for the additional info! :up:
> 
> FWIW Boot Camp and XP no longer play nice together (documented in a number of other forums). I have Win7 Ultimate on Boot Camp on my MBA and it works very well, but like you there were initial installation issues, all on the Windows side (same issues when I installed it on a PC ).
> 
> Glad to hear things are going well so enjoy and the happiest of holidays!


Don't you just love it when somebody can install Windows on a Mac more quickly and more easily than we can on a PC? : - (


----------



## richsadams

unitron said:


> Don't you just love it when somebody can install Windows on a Mac more quickly and more easily than we can on a PC? : - (


I also love that it runs better on my Mac than on my PC.


----------



## SandDune

Bought a temporary drive and tried to recover using dd_rescue. Gave up after a couple of hours of bad blocks (it had completed about 60 MB, but failed on over 2 MB). Rebooted the TiVo and let it divorce itself from the external drive (loosing everything that was recorded after adding the drive). I think when I get the replacement, I'll put it in my HD and simply avoid external drives altogether since my Series 3 has chewed through 2 of them already.

Andrew

PS, I do love being able to boot my MacBook off of the MFS Live CD. Not that it helped.


----------



## unitron

SandDune said:


> Bought a temporary drive and tried to recover using dd_rescue. Gave up after a couple of hours of bad blocks (it had completed about 60 MB, but failed on over 2 MB). Rebooted the TiVo and let it divorce itself from the external drive (loosing everything that was recorded after adding the drive). I think when I get the replacement, I'll put it in my HD and simply avoid external drives altogether since my Series 3 has chewed through 2 of them already.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> PS, I do love being able to boot my MacBook off of the MFS Live CD. Not that it helped.


I've found the best wayto use dd_rescue, provided you have another drive with the same number of LBA, is to use the reverse option after wrapping the "bad" drive in a couple of layers of paper towel and letting it spend the night in the freezer.


----------



## MSW

Hi All -

Just wanted to thank everyone here for all the valuable information that got me back up and running, and ask a question.

My Series 3 original 250gb drive had the dreaded clicking sound last week. It was completely shot, so I bought a 1tb WD10EVDS drive from Amazon. The manufacture date was October 14, 2010. Not having any backup, I had to use InstantCake and it went well. After powering up the S3 and watching it sit at the initial screen, I pulled the drive and ran wdidle3 /s300, which did the trick. Back in business again, and the updates ran fine.

I noticed that the capacity is 143 hours of HD, and I was expecting 157. Can/should I supersize it at this point to reclaim the additional capacity? Is that possible after baking the cake? I suspect I can, but just want to be sure. I searched the forum, but couldn't find an answer.

Thanks for all the incredible info.


----------



## ThAbtO

You can use WinMFS under administrator access the drive and supersize, as well as make a backup.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Quick question: I've supplied another forum member with an image for his TiVo, but he's new to the whole upgrade thing.

My image came from a MFS backup via a Linux boot CD. Will my image work via BOTH the MFS Live Boot CD AND winMFS?


----------



## sheriffA

ThreeSoFar said:


> Quick question: I've supplied another forum member with an image for his TiVo, but he's new to the whole upgrade thing.
> 
> My image came from a MFS backup via a Linux boot CD. Will my image work via BOTH the MFS Live Boot CD AND winMFS?


:up:


----------



## delgadobb

Wanted to add one more data point to the group for a valid upgrade drive (so far) ...

Upgraded my 1st Tivo HD from a 1 TB (157 HD hrs) Hitachi drive, which had been in use for just under two years. New drive is a SAMSUNG Spinpoint F4 HD204UI 2TB drive running at 5400 rpm. I upgraded from a previous image I had & not directly from the 1 TB drive/data, just in case that's not clear. (Since we use this Tivo daily, I didn't have the luxury of experimenting & backing up everything - it had to be ready to go when I opened the Tivo & took out the old drive.) In other words, no shows, season passes or other settings were transferred. I backed up essential shows to other Tivos knowing I'd be starting from scratch with this one. 

Once I'd done the imaging with WinMFS, I installed the drive in another TivoHD upstairs (next to my computer room - easier for testing). I realized I didn't have as much time/storage as expected, so I went back & imaged the drive again - this time making sure I had 'supersize' turned on ahead of time. Installed the drive again & this time I had the expected 318 HD hrs. Once I was sure it would boot past all the proper screens to the Tivo intro video, I brought it downstairs to the main Tivo. 

Old drive removed, new drive installed. As expected, I ran a guided setup, after which the Tivo didn't like the drive since it was imaged elsewhere. Did a C&DE (Clear & Delete Everything) to allow the drive to marry to the Tivo, after which I ran another guided setup. Once that was complete, I double-checked the cablecard settings - very few had changed, but I called the cable company to give it a 'hit' just in case. The first person to whom I spoke (Cox Communications) must've done something incorrectly - they sure didn't sound like they had any idea. So, I decided to call back & get somebody else - thankfully, they actually knew the routine & a little bit about cablecards. A few minutes later, I was up & running! 

Now it's a few days later & I'm happy to report that, so far, things are still going smoothly. I've got 318 HD hrs & 2776 (!) SD hrs of recording space, which will keep me busy for a while. For now, it seems like the Samsung 2 TB HD204UI is a good choice for a Tivo HD/HDXL upgrade provided you can find a way to see the extra space (via image/hack/etc). Next stop will be the Tivo up in the Loft from another 1 TB drive to 2 TB - have a 2 TB WD ready to go after I've tested this setup for another week or two. I'd been fence-sitting on getting a Premiere or two but I'm glad I stuck with the Tivo HD - the service is paid, I know how it works & I know I can do the upgrades myself.

Hope this helps!


----------



## dlfl

Maybe I missed something here. Does delgadobb's experience mean you can upgrade a THD to a 2 TB drive, properly supersized, using just WinMFS and a WinMFS backup image from say an original 160GB THD ? I didn't realize that was possible.


----------



## CraigK

dlfl said:


> Maybe I missed something here. Does delgadobb's experience mean you can upgrade a THD to a 2 TB drive, properly supersized, using just WinMFS and a WinMFS backup image from say an original 160GB THD ? I didn't realize that was possible.


It's not clear to me where the "previous image" came from in his statement:

"I upgraded from a previous image I had & not directly from the 1 TB drive/data, just in case that's not clear."


----------



## richsadams

dlfl said:


> Maybe I missed something here. Does delgadobb's experience mean you can upgrade a THD to a 2 TB drive, properly supersized, using just WinMFS and a WinMFS backup image from say an original 160GB THD ? I didn't realize that was possible.


AFAIK the OP would have had to have used an original TiVo HD hard drive image and Comer's jmfs program for a TiVo HD 2TB upgrade (not winMFS or MFStools).

FWIW Samsung Spinpoint drives have been problematic for TiVo upgrades for several years. Either they didn't work to start with or eventually failed. That's why they have never been on any of the recommended upgrade drive lists. Hopefully this member's experience will be better.


----------



## jimpmc

Just upgraded a TiVo HD using a Hitachi 7K1000.C, but the AAM can't be adjusted and I am not that thrilled with the stock noise level it has.

So I'm looking for an alternate quieter drive as a replacement. Looking at the WD ones, I see there is a AV-GP WD10EVDS (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136496) and also the AV-GP WD10EURS (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136782). Both are the same price.

Is one recommended over the other? (or should I be looking at other makes/models?) I know I may need to run wdidle, but that won't be a problem.

Thanks.


----------



## richsadams

jimpmc said:


> Just upgraded a TiVo HD using a Hitachi 7K1000.C, but the AAM can't be adjusted and I am not that thrilled with the stock noise level it has.
> 
> So I'm looking for an alternate quieter drive as a replacement. Looking at the WD ones, I see there is a AV-GP WD10EVDS (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136496) and also the AV-GP WD10EURS (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136782). Both are the same price.
> 
> Is one recommended over the other? (or should I be looking at other makes/models?) I know I may need to run wdidle, but that won't be a problem.
> 
> Thanks.


I'd go with the WD10EURS...it looks to be the replacement for the WD10EVDS. The EURS will probably have a more recent manufacture date so you may not need to tweak the Intellipark setting. Both are dedicated A/V drives; the AAM is already set to the lowest level (128).

FWIW I would buy it from Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/5400RPM-Buffe...1JTY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1293684149&sr=8-1

Same price, but w/free shipping and Amazon generally packs hard drives better than newegg. Plus if it happens to be defective returns to Amazon are much easier (based on my personal experience with both newegg and Amazon).

It's a shame about the Hitachi drives, they were a good option, but apparently no more.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## ThAbtO

richsadams said:


> I'd go with the WD10EURS...it looks to be the replacement for the WD10EVDS. The EURS will probably have a more recent manufacture date so you may not need to tweak the Intellipark setting. Both are dedicated A/V drives; the AAM is already set to the lowest level (128).
> 
> FWIW I would buy it from Amazon:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/5400RPM-Buffe...1JTY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1293684149&sr=8-1
> 
> Same price, but w/free shipping and Amazon generally packs hard drives better than newegg. Plus if it happens to be defective returns to Amazon are much easier (based on my personal experience with both newegg and Amazon).


Or how about WD10EARS?


----------



## richsadams

ThAbtO said:


> Or how about WD10EARS?


Also fine, but would need the AAM adjusted and may also need the Intellipark timeout tweaked.


----------



## delgadobb

dlfl said:


> Maybe I missed something here. Does delgadobb's experience mean you can upgrade a THD to a 2 TB drive, properly supersized, using just WinMFS and a WinMFS backup image from say an original 160GB THD ? I didn't realize that was possible.


Unfortunately, no. The image is hacked so I didn't want to go into detail in case it causes trouble here. The largest upgrade I've been able to do from an original 160 GB THD is 1 TB (since they don't make 1.16 TB drives).



richsadams said:


> FWIW Samsung Spinpoint drives have been problematic for TiVo upgrades for several years. Either they didn't work to start with or eventually failed. That's why they have never been on any of the recommended upgrade drive lists. Hopefully this member's experience will be better.


FWIW, one of the 1 TB drives I'm upgrading to 2 TB is a Samsung Spinpoint & has performed flawlessly for almost 2 years. The ONLY reason I'm upgrading it is for additional storage space. I actually prefer it to the Hitachi drive from the other Tivo; both have performed just fine, but the Hitachi definitely is noisier.

Hope this helps.


----------



## delgadobb

Another hard drive deal for those looking to upgrade to 2 TB - Dell has a WD 2TB WD20EARS drive on sale for $89.99 & it's supposed to have free shipping (thru today 12.30.2010 only). Look for it at www.dell.com

For some reason, the link to the product isn't working, so follow this hierarchy (or just search for it): Home & Small Office  Accessories  Storage, Drives & Media  Hard Drives - Internal  Capacity : 1.5 TB - 4 TB

In addition, there's a $20 rebate form attached at the bottom of this post.

If you happen to have a Dell Preferred Account (DPA) you can get another 3% discount, bringing total price before taxes to about $67. Better yet, pay with Discover card & link through their 'ShopDiscover' link when logged into your account & save an extra 5%. That would bring the price to $65.

The rebate terms say you can purchase up to five (5) drives, for those interested in multiple quantities.

Hope this helps someone/anyone looking for upgrades.


----------



## TheLongshot

richsadams said:


> Also fine, but would need the AAM adjusted and may also need the Intellipark timeout tweaked.


Good to know what needs to be done. Considering that it is a more readily available hard drive and generally cheaper, it is preferable to me.

I have a 500mb Caviar Blue drive that had failed in a RAID that I was testing out in my Tivo. It was working fine until a couple of weeks ago when it started rebooting. Since I've gotten spoiled by the extra space, I've been looking for a proper replacement.


----------



## richsadams

TheLongshot said:


> Good to know what needs to be done. Considering that it is a more readily available hard drive and generally cheaper, it is preferable to me.
> 
> I have a 500mb Caviar Blue drive that had failed in a RAID that I was testing out in my Tivo. It was working fine until a couple of weeks ago when it started rebooting. Since I've gotten spoiled by the extra space, I've been looking for a proper replacement.


Good choice then. Adjusting the AAM is quite simple and can be done at any time, before or after performing the upgrade. Adjusting the Intellipark timing (per the instructions in the first post) is a little more work and requires a direct SATA connection, but again, not that difficult (and can also be done at any time).

Happy upgrading!


----------



## richsadams

I'm not a big fan of eSATA hard drives since it adds an additional fail point, but I noticed that newegg has the 1TB WD My DVR Expander on sale for $89.99 w/free shipping using promo code *EMCZNPY65* for anyone that's interested. The track record for these drives has been much better than the original 500GB Expanders which had an average lifespan of about 12 to 18 months.

NOTE: This is not the latest model which is WD's My Book AV DVR Expander. This model is too new to know how well it will do long-term.


----------



## richsadams

delgadobb said:


> FWIW, one of the 1 TB drives I'm upgrading to 2 TB is a Samsung Spinpoint & has performed flawlessly for almost 2 years. The ONLY reason I'm upgrading it is for additional storage space. I actually prefer it to the Hitachi drive from the other Tivo; both have performed just fine, but the Hitachi definitely is noisier.
> 
> Hope this helps.


Excellent to know. I have a Sammy 1TB Spinpoint running as a backup drive and it's been fine for a about a year now as well. Hopefully past issues have been cleared up. Enjoy!


----------



## hearncl

richsadams said:


> I'd go with the WD10EURS...it looks to be the replacement for the WD10EVDS. The EURS will probably have a more recent manufacture date so you may not need to tweak the Intellipark setting. Both are dedicated A/V drives; the AAM is already set to the lowest level (128).
> 
> FWIW I would buy it from Amazon:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/5400RPM-Buffe...1JTY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1293684149&sr=8-1
> 
> Same price, but w/free shipping and Amazon generally packs hard drives better than newegg. Plus if it happens to be defective returns to Amazon are much easier (based on my personal experience with both newegg and Amazon).


Thanks for the heads-up. I just ordered the WD10EVDS from Amazon; it came Tuesday and had a manufacture date of APRIL 2010. I'm returning it and have ordered the EURS. Hopefully it won't have the Intellipark problem.


----------



## richsadams

hearncl said:


> Thanks for the heads-up. I just ordered the WD10EVDS from Amazon; it came Tuesday and had a manufacture date of APRIL 2010. I'm returning it and have ordered the EURS. Hopefully it won't have the Intellipark problem.


Let us know how things go with the new WD10EURS...manufacture date, Intellipark issue or not. TIA and happy upgrading!


----------



## jimpmc

richsadams said:


> I'd go with the WD10EURS...it looks to be the replacement for the WD10EVDS. The EURS will probably have a more recent manufacture date so you may not need to tweak the Intellipark setting. Both are dedicated A/V drives; the AAM is already set to the lowest level (128).
> 
> FWIW I would buy it from Amazon:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/5400RPM-Buffe...1JTY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1293684149&sr=8-1
> 
> Same price, but w/free shipping and Amazon generally packs hard drives better than newegg. Plus if it happens to be defective returns to Amazon are much easier (based on my personal experience with both newegg and Amazon).
> 
> It's a shame about the Hitachi drives, they were a good option, but apparently no more.
> 
> Happy upgrading!


Just got the WD10EURS....(WD10EURS - 630AB1 on device, manufacture date 22 SEP 2010). It's working great and what a noise difference from the Hitachi...this is virtually silent (it came with AAM set to 128). It seems to work without adjustments to the Intellipark setting (soft rebooted without issue), although I did have problems trying to use wdidle3.

Since I had the computer and drive setup, the first thing I did was run wdidle3 from the boot disk. wdidle3.exe /r saw the drive and reported it was enabled and set to the default 8 seconds. I then tried to run wdidle3.exe /s300 and it sat for 10 min or so, and then finally came back with a Invalid Opcode error with a bunch of hex strings. I had to turn the computer off. I tried again, it still reported it was enabled and set to the default 8 seconds, and it again came back with the opcode error after 10 min or so.

So I proceeded as is with the mfscopy and put it in the TiVo, and it seems to not have any reboot issues as I soft-rebooted twice and it came right back. So, either wdidle3 doesn't work with this model and/or it's not needed...it works in the TiVo, so that's all I need.


----------



## richsadams

Excellent news! If you weren't able to reset the Intellipark timeout and it reboots from a menu restart it looks like you're golden. BTW, did you get the drive from Amazon or Newegg? Just a datapoint with regard to the date of manufacture of these drives currently being sent out.

Enjoy!


----------



## hoyty

What might have started out as a sad story has a better ending. I had a WD10EVCS-63E0B0 which pretty much died last Wednesday in my S3. It had been having weird garbling on certain shows but I ignored the warnings. Wednesday the S3 just spontaneously rebooted mid show and then got stuck on power up screen. I pulled power and it booted then within 30 minutes did it again. I decided it was done for. I ordered a warranty replacement from WD and got it Friday morning. It was a WD10EVDS-63U8B0 with an 04 DEC 2010 manufacture date. It has a R at the end of date which I am guessing means replacement or something similar.

Using WinMFS I didn't have much luck doing disk to disk copy. I tried SpinRite which basically said "um yeah this drive is dead" and then crashed trying to analyze it. I never had that happen. Thankfully the latest MFSLive integrates dd_rescue it seems into the backup script as it was able to copy the drive with about .5-1.0% data loss in recording area. It took almost 18 hours because of the bad parts of drive, but it finished and verified. I also tested a minimal transfer to verify the OS partitions were good and they seemed fine.

I just popped the drive in and it booted fine. I also tested a restart via menu and seemed fine. Just wanted to add this as a data point since I still see the EVDS mentioned as having reboot issues I thought. I didn't do any WDIDLE settings changes just used drive as is from WD.


----------



## richsadams

hoyty said:


> What might have started out as a sad story has a better ending. I had a WD10EVCS-63E0B0 which pretty much died last Wednesday in my S3. It had been having weird garbling on certain shows but I ignored the warnings. Wednesday the S3 just spontaneously rebooted mid show and then got stuck on power up screen. I pulled power and it booted then within 30 minutes did it again. I decided it was done for. I ordered a warranty replacement from WD and got it Friday morning. It was a WD10EVDS-63U8B0 with an 04 DEC 2010 manufacture date. It has a R at the end of date which I am guessing means replacement or something similar.
> 
> Using WinMFS I didn't have much luck doing disk to disk copy. I tried SpinRite which basically said "um yeah this drive is dead" and then crashed trying to analyze it. I never had that happen. Thankfully the latest MFSLive integrates dd_rescue it seems into the backup script as it was able to copy the drive with about .5-1.0% data loss in recording area. It took almost 18 hours because of the bad parts of drive, but it finished and verified. I also tested a minimal transfer to verify the OS partitions were good and they seemed fine.
> 
> I just popped the drive in and it booted fine. I also tested a restart via menu and seemed fine. Just wanted to add this as a data point since I still see the EVDS mentioned as having reboot issues I thought. I didn't do any WDIDLE settings changes just used drive as is from WD.


I always love a story with a happy ending!  Good info. It still appears that most WD drives manufactured after 09/15/10 no longer need the Intellipark timeout tweaked, but there have been the odd exceptions.

Glad you were able to save your old drive...assume that meant recordings and everything? Sweet.

Enjoy!


----------



## hearncl

richsadams said:


> Let us know how things go with the new WD10EURS...manufacture date, Intellipark issue or not. TIA and happy upgrading!


I received the EURS, dated 28 SEP 2010, from Amazon. I attempted to install it today in my original TiVo S3, using a Mac Pro with Win XP on BootCamp, but ran into problems. I had previously upgraded this S3 in Sept. 2009 with a 1TB Seagate Pipeline drive, using WinMFS, with no problems. But the S3 has recently experienced minor skips in some recorded programs, so I decided to upgrade again while the Seagate is still copyable (although I'm not positive that the skips are a HD problem).

My problems with the EURS upgrade are probably due to moving the hard drive with Win XP partition to a new Mac Pro. On booting XP on the new machine, Windows automatically re-registered on the new hardware. But, a New Hardware Wizard popped up, looking for a System Interrupt Controller file which it couldn't find. The Wizard couldn't be dismissed. I was afraid this might cause problems running programs such as WinMFS, but decided to go ahead and try the upgrade.

Following the instructions for "TiVo Upgrade, Preserves Settings and Recordings", the program almost completed copying the original drive, then crashed. Rather than reinstall XP and hopefully avoid the (presumed) hardware problem, I'm wondering if I should just install Windows 7 instead. Before starting over with a new Windows 7 partition, I hope someone can help with the following questions:

1. Does WinMFS work with Windows 7? The upgrade instructions mention only XP and Vista. If it does work, are the upgrade instructions the same?

2. Having copied most of the original drive to the EURS before the program crashed, the EURS is no longer in "pristine" condition. Assuming WinMFS works with Win 7, can I use this same EURS as a replacement without erasing it somehow (which I'm not sure how to do)?

My other option is to go ahead and reinstall Win XP on the new Mac Pro. However, I seem to recall a comment on this forum that XP may not be compatible with BootCamp anymore. Perhaps this was the cause of the WinMFS crash, in which case reinstalling XP would be pointless.


----------



## richsadams

That's a bit frustrating. When you say "crashed" do you mean Windows crashed completely or do you mean winMFS crashed? The reason I ask is that often the progress bar for winMFS will hang when in reality it's still working just fine. Depending on how many recordings you have it can take several hours or more to complete the upgrade.

With regard to trying to use the new drive again, that shouldn't be a problem because winMFS formats the drive each time so there's nothing you need to do to it.

I know Boot Camp doesn't play nice with XP, but I also know there are plenty of folks using it. That said, it seems like if there were a problem of some nature winMFS wouldn't have worked at all. To me that it looks like it worked at least up to a point would indicate that something else happened.

IIRC there are a number of folks here that have upgraded using winMFS/Win7 so I don't think that would be an issue.

Me? I'd start over again and see if it won't work and if it fails again make note of everything that happened and then cross the bridge to the next steps.


----------



## hearncl

richsadams said:


> That's a bit frustrating. When you say "crashed" do you mean Windows crashed completely or do you mean winMFS crashed? The reason I ask is that often the progress bar for winMFS will hang when in reality it's still working just fine. Depending on how many recordings you have it can take several hours or more to complete the upgrade.
> 
> With regard to trying to use the new drive again, that shouldn't be a problem because winMFS formats the drive each time so there's nothing you need to do to it.
> 
> I know Boot Camp doesn't play nice with XP, but I also know there are plenty of folks using it. That said, it seems like if there were a problem of some nature winMFS wouldn't have worked at all. To me that it looks like it worked at least up to a point would indicate that something else happened.
> 
> IIRC there are a number of folks here that have upgraded using winMFS/Win7 so I don't think that would be an issue.
> 
> Me? I'd start over again and see if it won't work and if it fails again make note of everything that happened and then cross the bridge to the next steps.


Thanks, Rich. It was WinMFS that crashed, with a cascade of overlapping windows with various error messages culminating in an "out of memory" window. Hard to tell the actual error. Naturally this happened when the progress bar was almost complete.

I have Windows installed on my Mac Pro mainly for WinMFS and for editing my URC MX-900 remote control. Because of that pesky New Hardware Wizard, which can't be cancelled, that popped up after moving to the new computer, I feel that at the least I would need to reinstall XP on the new Mac Pro before trying WinMFS again. This, along with rerunning WinMFS, would be at least a half-day job, and I think the chances of the same thing happening are over 50%.

With your assurance that WinMFS works with Win 7 and that I can re-use the EURS, and also having read that the MX-900 editor also does, I think I'll go ahead and order Windows 7 and try the upgrade again. I'll try to let you know how it goes.


----------



## supersnoop

I can confirm that WinMFS runs under Windows 7. You have to right-click and tell it to "Run as administrator" for it to see your drives.


----------



## richsadams

hearncl said:


> With your assurance that WinMFS works with Win 7 and that I can re-use the EURS, and also having read that the MX-900 editor also does, I think I'll go ahead and order Windows 7 and try the upgrade again. I'll try to let you know how it goes.


Sounds like a plan! FWIW I have W7 Ultimate running via Boot Camp on my new MacBook Air and it works great (much better than W7 on my Dell PC)!


----------



## tluxon

Both of my THD's have 750GB WD EVDS drives that are 3 years old. One of them is starting to have freezes when playing live buffered shows and occasionally on recordings. It's like data is starting to get written to bad sectors.

Should I assume this means the drive is failing? Are there any tools to check it with?

What's the easiest drive to upgrade to? Would it be a 1TB WD EURS drive? Or should I go with the EVDS again?

Another question is what to do with the shows that are currently on the "failing" drive - do they have to be transferred to the new drive in order to save them? Is there a way to save these shows other than transferring them? I can't just plug the drive into a USB enclosure and access them from Windows, can I?


----------



## richsadams

tluxon said:


> Both of my THD's have 750GB WD EVDS drives that are 3 years old. One of them is starting to have freezes when playing live buffered shows and occasionally on recordings. It's like data is starting to get written to bad sectors.
> 
> Should I assume this means the drive is failing? Are there any tools to check it with?


 Possibly. You could try running some of TiVo's built-in diagnostic and repair tools called "Kickstarts":

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

You could also pull the drive and check it with Western Digital's Lifeguard program. A quick test may reveal problems, or it may not. The only way to really test it would be to run an extended read/write/read diagnostic. The downside is that would wipe everything on your hard drive so you'd have to start from scratch (ideally you saved the original hard drive).



tluxon said:


> What's the easiest drive to upgrade to? Would it be a 1TB WD EURS drive? Or should I go with the EVDS again?


 Either one is perfectly fine. If you intend to use winMFS you'll need to go with something larger than what you now have so a 1TB drive would be a good choice.



tluxon said:


> Another question is what to do with the shows that are currently on the "failing" drive - do they have to be transferred to the new drive in order to save them?


 That's one way.



tluxon said:


> Is there a way to save these shows other than transferring them?


 Instead of transferring them to your replacement drive you can transfer (unprotected) recordings to your computer using a program like TiVo Desktop or KMTTG.



tluxon said:


> I can't just plug the drive into a USB enclosure and access them from Windows, can I?


No. Keep in mind that if you mount a TiVo drive using Windows Disk Management it will ruin the Bootpage and become essentially useless (with respect to TiVo).

Hope that helps and best of luck!


----------



## hearncl

I received a WD10EURS, dated 28 SEP 2010, from Amazon. I have a Mac Pro, and installed Windows 7 (32-bit) in a Boot Camp partition (thanks, Rich, for your suggestions on installing Win 7). In 2009 I had upgraded my TiVo S3 to 1 TB using a Seagate drive. Recorded shows were starting to have short "skips", so I decided to upgrade again. I used the WD10EURS hoping to avoid the Intellipark problem.

I installed WinMFS and copied the TiVo S3 drive to the EURS, using the WinMFS "Preserves Settings and Recordings" procedure. After installing the EURS in the TiVo, I left off a couple of drive bracket screws and the TiVo cover just to check the new drive. It booted up successfully, and all recordings were there. It also restarted from the TiVo menu (apparently no Intellipark problem).

I unplugged the TiVo and replaced the remaining screws and cover. On plugging it back in, though, it was stuck on "Powering Up". I reinstalled the original drive and it works correctly. I switched the drives back and forth a couple of times, always checking to be sure the drive was connected, but the EURS kept refusing to boot, while the original drive works.

The fact that the EURS worked at first seems to rule out any problems with WinMFS running on Win 7. The fact that the S3 still works with the original drive seems to rule out a problem with the S3. That leaves a possible problem with the WD10EURS.

I'd still like to upgrade the TiVo S3 drive, but have lost confidence in the EURS. (I realize others have used the EURS successfully; perhaps mine is defective.) I'm thinking about returning it to Amazon and ordering a different 1 TB drive, possibly not one of the Western Digitals. I'm mainly interested in long-term reliability and avoiding the Intellipark problem. Drive noise is not a problem.

Any suggestions on which 1 TB drive to order? How important is it to use a drive designed for A/V use?


----------



## kdbd

...this thread is so long, but you all seem helpful. hopefully you will forgive me if these questions have already been asked.

i have a tivohd and i suspect its hard drive has failed. a mere 3 days after the warranty ran out, it got stuck in a reboot loop. even if it gets past the reboot screens, it will only hold on live tv (or recorded) for 15-30 minutes before rebooting again.

i've been looking for affordable repair options--i really don't want to spend the money on a premier or a referb hd--i liked the tivo i had just fine until it went crazy last week. 

according to this thread, i can order one of the recommended hard drives and replace it myself, which sounds great, except that the instructions make so little sense to me. apparently, i am more technologically ignorant than i thought!

my first question is this: it seems from reading some of the posts on this thread that i require a pc to change out the drives. is that the case? if so perhaps i can find a friend to do it for me as we are an all-mac house (without partitioned drives). 

my second question is: is there a version of the instructions that dumb the process down even more? (i'm seeing posts about problems with something called intelepark, which isn't mentioned in the instructions that i read at all) is there a newer version?

thanks so much in advance, from an upgrade noob.


----------



## richsadams

hearncl said:


> I received a WD10EURS, dated 28 SEP 2010, from Amazon. <snip>


You know what? I know this sounds counter intuitive, but I would go ahead and run wdidle3.exe and adjust the Intellipark timeout to /s300 (5 minutes - Section V, #14 in the FAQ). I know it doesn't sound like that s/b the problem, but if it's not booting now I'd wager that could be it. You should have access to a SATA port so it shouldn't be too much trouble. See if that doesn't do the trick. If not, then yes, I'd suspect something is wrong but it might only be data corruption of some nature. If adjusting the timeout doesn't do it I'd give it one more try with winMFS...and THEN if it still doesn't work...time to replace it. I know there are several folks using the EURS series so I wouldn't worry too much about that.

Let us know what you decide to do and how it goes!


----------



## richsadams

kdbd said:


> ...this thread is so long, but you all seem helpful. hopefully you will forgive me if these questions have already been asked.
> 
> i have a tivohd and i suspect its hard drive has failed. a mere 3 days after the warranty ran out, it got stuck in a reboot loop. even if it gets past the reboot screens, it will only hold on live tv (or recorded) for 15-30 minutes before rebooting again.
> 
> i've been looking for affordable repair options--i really don't want to spend the money on a premier or a referb hd--i liked the tivo i had just fine until it went crazy last week.
> 
> according to this thread, i can order one of the recommended hard drives and replace it myself, which sounds great, except that the instructions make so little sense to me. apparently, i am more technologically ignorant than i thought!
> 
> my first question is this: it seems from reading some of the posts on this thread that i require a pc to change out the drives. is that the case? if so perhaps i can find a friend to do it for me as we are an all-mac house (without partitioned drives).
> 
> my second question is: is there a version of the instructions that dumb the process down even more? (i'm seeing posts about problems with something called intelepark, which isn't mentioned in the instructions that i read at all) is there a newer version?
> 
> thanks so much in advance, from an upgrade noob.


Welcome to the forum. Yes, for a DIY project you'll need to have a PC to use the upgrade program called winMFS.

The FAQ upgrade instructions are as basic as they can get. Section V #22a or #22b cover the upgrade process (following one or the other depending on if you want to keep your recordings or not). There are certain steps to follow in an exact order and none of them can be modified or skipped. It can appear overwhelming/complicated but trust me, once you get going it is really quite simple if you do it one step at a time.

The Intellipark "issue" applies to Western Digital GP hard drives that were manufactured from late 2009 through approximately September 15 2010. The "feature" allowed the drives to spin down and save energy when used in normal computers when idle. However it caused problems for TiVo either not allowing them to boot up after an upgrade or preventing them from rebooting normally when an upgrade was pushed out by TiVo or from a menu restart. After 09/15/10 WD made a firmware change that made the problem go away. For drives manufactured prior to that folks used a program called wdidle3.exe to extend the Intellipark's timeout settings. That fixed the problem but is a bit of a pain to have to do. If you were to buy a drive now it would likely be manufactured after 09/15/10 so you probably wouldn't have to worry about it...but no guarantees of course.

Your other option is to buy a pre-imaged drive from a third party like Weaknees.com or DVRUpgrade.com (actually the same company now). That would allow you to simply pull the drive out of your TiVo, replace it with the new one and basically have a "new" TiVo. You would have to have your cable card(s) re-bound or re-paired as, again, it would basically be a "new TiVo".

I would take the time to read through the FAQ and get a good feel for what you want to do and then go forward. Either way, we're here to help. Don't hesitate to post more questions if needed and happy upgrading!


----------



## hearncl

richsadams said:


> You know what? I know this sounds counter intuitive, but I would go ahead and run wdidle3.exe and adjust the Intellipark timeout to /s300 (5 minutes - Section V, #14 in the FAQ). I know it doesn't sound like that s/b the problem, but if it's not booting now I'd wager that could be it. You should have access to a SATA port so it shouldn't be too much trouble. See if that doesn't do the trick. If not, then yes, I'd suspect something is wrong but it might only be data corruption of some nature. If adjusting the timeout doesn't do it I'd give it one more try with winMFS...and THEN if it still doesn't work...time to replace it. I know there are several folks using the EURS series so I wouldn't worry to much about that.


Rich was correct. I never considered that the Intellipark issue was keeping the WD10EURS from booting in my TiVo S3, since it happened on initial startup (hard boot) rather than a soft (menu restart) boot. Running wdidle3 as described fixed the problem.

Actually, the S3 booted up correctly the first time after running WinMFS and installing the EURS. It was only after shutting down and buttoning up the TiVo box that the problem cropped up. After that first startup, the S3 would not get past the "Powering Up" screen until I ran wdidle3.

Thanks to Rich for pointing this out and saving me a lot of trouble.


----------



## hearncl

kdbd said:


> i have a tivohd and i suspect its hard drive has failed. a mere 3 days after the warranty ran out, it got stuck in a reboot loop. even if it gets past the reboot screens, it will only hold on live tv (or recorded) for 15-30 minutes before rebooting again.
> 
> i've been looking for affordable repair options--i really don't want to spend the money on a premier or a referb hd--i liked the tivo i had just fine until it went crazy last week.
> <snip>
> my first question is this: it seems from reading some of the posts on this thread that i require a pc to change out the drives. is that the case? if so perhaps i can find a friend to do it for me as we are an all-mac house (without partitioned drives).





richsadams said:


> Your other option is to buy a pre-imaged drive from a third party like Weaknees.com or DVRUpgrade.com (actually the same company now). That would allow you to simply pull the drive out of your TiVo, replace it with the new one and basically have a "new" TiVo. You would have to have your cable card(s) re-bound or re-paired as, again, it would basically be a "new TiVo".


Unless you have a Mac Pro (which has replaceable SATA drives) I think your best approach is as Rich suggests here. It will be more costly than buying a bare drive and copying it, but perhaps less costly than equipping your Mac to run Windows, buying drive adapters, etc.

My first TiVo drive upgrades, several years ago, were 500 and 750 GB drives from Weaknees (installed in S3 and HD TiVos). They supplied detailed instructions and the necessary tools. You can preview the instructions online. As Rich says, you will have to re-pair the cable card(s). You will also lose your present recordings and season passes, but essentially end up with a new TiVo.


----------



## TheLongshot

Ok, got my 1TB EARS drive in the mail yesterday. In preparation for that, a couple of days before I picked up a BlacX Duet external dock for hard drives from Micro Center, since I found opening my computer to do all of this stuff a real pain. It took a while to figure out how to get the eSATA connection to work, but it finally worked. I used it to back up the failing 500GB drive and restore it to the original drive so that I at least had my season passes while I was waiting for the new drive to arrive. I did get the Green Screen Of Death, but after it finished up, it worked just fine for recording shows.

So, I was at my leisure in transferring the old HD to the new one. One thing I could tell by touching both hard drives was that the old 500MB was very hot in comparison. That's probably why it was failing.

So, ran wdidle (which seemed to run on all of my drives in my system. Wasn't quite expecting that) and adjusted AAM on the drive, then did the copy. It went off without a hitch and the drive has been running in my Tivo for 24 hours with no issues.


----------



## richsadams

TheLongshot said:


> Ok, got my 1TB EARS drive in the mail yesterday. In preparation for that, a couple of days before I picked up a BlacX Duet external dock for hard drives from Micro Center, since I found opening my computer to do all of this stuff a real pain. It took a while to figure out how to get the eSATA connection to work, but it finally worked. I used it to back up the failing 500GB drive and restore it to the original drive so that I at least had my season passes while I was waiting for the new drive to arrive. I did get the Green Screen Of Death, but after it finished up, it worked just fine for recording shows.
> 
> So, I was at my leisure in transferring the old HD to the new one. One thing I could tell by touching both hard drives was that the old 500MB was very hot in comparison. That's probably why it was failing.
> 
> So, ran wdidle (which seemed to run on all of my drives in my system. Wasn't quite expecting that) and adjusted AAM on the drive, then did the copy. It went off without a hitch and the drive has been running in my Tivo for 24 hours with no issues.


Phew! After starting to read your post I expected some sort of tale of woe. Glad everything turned out for the best. Nice work. :up: Enjoy!


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Quick question: I have three TiVo Premieres on the way from woot.com.

Will I be able to use these original hard drives to create a 2TB TiVo using just the original drive as a source image? Or do I need the special 2TB image still?


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Oh, and why is there no Premiere section in the first post?


----------



## unitron

ThreeSoFar said:


> Oh, and why is there no Premiere section in the first post?


The post from October 19, 2007?


----------



## richsadams

ThreeSoFar said:


> Quick question: I have three TiVo Premieres on the way from woot.com.
> 
> Will I be able to use these original hard drives to create a 2TB TiVo using just the original drive as a source image?


Yes.



ThreeSoFar said:


> Or do I need the special 2TB image still?


No. Everything you need to know about upgrading your new TiVo Premieres can be found here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968



ThreeSoFar said:


> Oh, and why is there no Premiere section in the first post?


This thread is in the "TiVo Series3 HDTV DVR's" forum. The TiVo Premiere and Premiere XL are a Series4 TiVo's.


----------



## tluxon

Okay, I've got the WD10EVDS now, but I've got a tricky situation I'd like some advice on.

My PC is a bit older and has two IDE HDD's and two SATA HDD's. I have 1TB drives on each of the two SATA connections. When I upgraded to 750GB drives 3 years ago it was a simple matter to hook the original TiVo drive up to one SATA and the new 750GB drive to the other SATA for the WinMFS transfer.

Now it's not going to be quite so easy, as I've relocated the "My Documents" folder to one of the 1TB SATA drives so the "My TiVo Recordings" folder can be huge. The "My Documents" folder is currently over 250GB in size which far surpasses the free space available on both of the IDE drives combined.

I'm really hoping to preserve all current TiVo recordings and settings to the new drive.

Is there a simple way to deal with this so I can use both SATA connectors for the WinMFS transfer from my failing 750GB drive to the new 1TB drive?

BTW, I have a blank 750GB USB drive that I could put into service for this task, but I'm afraid it would be one of the slower options.

Ideally, I would be able to redirect the My Documents folder temporarily to the OS drive and take out my two SATA drives for the WinMFS transfer. I just don't want to "break" anything in the registry when it comes to how that's done without copying all the files from one place to the other.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## ThreeSoFar

richsadams said:


> Yes.
> 
> No. Everything you need to know about upgrading your new TiVo Premieres can be found here:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968
> 
> This thread is in the "TiVo Series3 HDTV DVR's" forum. The TiVo Premiere are Premiere XL are a Series4 TiVo's.


Helpful, as always, Rich. Thanks.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

tluxon said:


> Okay, I've got the WD10EVDS now, but I've got a tricky situation I'd like some advice on.
> 
> My PC is a bit older and has two IDE HDD's and two SATA HDD's. I have 1TB drives on each of the two SATA connections. When I upgraded to 750GB drives 3 years ago it was a simple matter to hook the original TiVo drive up to one SATA and the new 750GB drive to the other SATA for the WinMFS transfer.
> 
> Now it's not going to be quite so easy, as I've relocated the "My Documents" folder to one of the 1TB SATA drives so the "My TiVo Recordings" folder can be huge. The "My Documents" folder is currently over 250GB in size which far surpasses the free space available on both of the IDE drives combined.
> 
> I'm really hoping to preserve all current TiVo recordings and settings to the new drive.
> 
> Is there a simple way to deal with this so I can use both SATA connectors for the WinMFS transfer from my failing 750GB drive to the new 1TB drive?
> 
> BTW, I have a blank 750GB USB drive that I could put into service for this task, but I'm afraid it would be one of the slower options.
> 
> Ideally, I would be able to redirect the My Documents folder temporarily to the OS drive and take out my two SATA drives for the WinMFS transfer. I just don't want to "break" anything in the registry when it comes to how that's done without copying all the files from one place to the other.
> 
> Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks!


Not as simple, and not WinMFS, but there's the live CD option (winmfs.org has it). It's a Linux boot CD, so you can just unplug and not use both your SATA Windows drives during the transfer.

You need to confirm (as I do for y new Premiere) whether the live CD can handle the size of destination drive you're trying to use.


----------



## richsadams

tluxon said:


> Okay, I've got the WD10EVDS now, but I've got a tricky situation I'd like some advice on.<snip>


I'm a little confused...but that's not unusual. Let me see if I understand your situation. It sounds as if you currently have a 750GB drive in a TiVo that's going south. You'd like to upgrade/replace it with a new 1TB drive and keep all of your recordings correct?

If so (and I'm assuming your 750GB drive is still functional) all you need to do is use winMFS to perform the upgrade as you did before (Section V, #22b in the FAQ). Of course that would entail connecting both your 750GB and 1TB drives to your computer at the same time while running winMFS from your PC's Windows drive.

If your PC has 2 SATA drives connected currently there's a good chance that it has more SATA ports available. Check your motherboard's documentation. If not you could connect one drive to one SATA port (leaving your Windows drive connected, again, assuming it's one of the SATA drives in your PC) and use a USB/SATA adapter or drive dock to connect the other drive. As you acknowledged, the process will take longer but it will work.

The MFSTools program ThreeSoFar mentions should work as well.

Of maybe I've missed your point completely? If so set me straight...including which TiVo model you have, etc.


----------



## tluxon

Rich,

You've got it right. I've got a failing 750GB drive in one of my TiVoHD's (a few posts back) and want to replace it with a new 1TB drive that I received last night. My PC is homebuilt with an ASUS P4P800-E Deluxe motherboard, so it supports both IDE and SATA drives, with the compromise that it only has two SATA connectors on board.

ThreeSoFar,

Just this morning I was wondering about a Live CD option. I have a couple Live CD's that boot to mini-XP operating systems for cleaning up PC's that won't boot to an infected drive. I'm pretty sure they see both my 1TB SATA drives and at least one of them - perhaps both - provides internet access if needed. I also have a Linux Boot CD I use for the GPartEd program, but I haven't checked to see if I can run other programs from it.

I was hoping to use WinMFS from WinXP because of my previous experience with it from doing my first two drive upgrades three years ago. Do you know if it can be installed/run from a typical WinXP Live CD environment?

Do you know where I can learn more about using the MFSLive LinuxBoot CD? All the threads on the download page at MFSLive.org are locked (I am registered and logged in) and are a few years old. Is everything I need to know available at this page? I'd just feel more comfortable having an active thread or forum to post to if anything gets messed up going the MFSLive LinuxBoot CD route?


----------



## unitron

tluxon said:


> Rich,
> 
> You've got it right. I've got a failing 750GB drive in one of my TiVoHD's (a few posts back) and want to replace it with a new 1TB drive that I received last night. My PC is homebuilt with an ASUS P4P800-E Deluxe motherboard, so it supports both IDE and SATA drives, with the compromise that it only has two SATA connectors on board.
> 
> ThreeSoFar,
> 
> Just this morning I was wondering about a Live CD option. I have a couple Live CD's that boot to mini-XP operating systems for cleaning up PC's that won't boot to an infected drive. I'm pretty sure they see both my 1TB SATA drives and at least one of them - perhaps both - provides internet access if needed. I also have a Linux Boot CD I use for the GPartEd program, but I haven't checked to see if I can run other programs from it.
> 
> I was hoping to use WinMFS from WinXP because of my previous experience with it from doing my first two drive upgrades three years ago. Do you know if it can be installed/run from a typical WinXP Live CD environment?
> 
> Do you know where I can learn more about using the MFSLive LinuxBoot CD? All the threads on the download page at MFSLive.org are locked (I am registered and logged in) and are a few years old. Is everything I need to know available at this page? I'd just feel more comfortable having an active thread or forum to post to if anything gets messed up going the MFSLive LinuxBoot CD route?


The threads on the download page may be locked but the forums aren't.

There's not a lot of activity, but it's not dead yet.

And there's the help center forum here as well.

If you're on a 750GB drive you probably already have as many partitions per drive as TiVo will allow, so the extra 250GB will sit there unused, assuming you plan to keep the shows you have recorded on the failing 750.

The MFS Live CD (most recent version is 1.4) is from the same guy as WinMFS, but it's strictly command line, white letters on black screen, no mouse necessary, I don't even think it loads a mouse driver.

The page you link to is about WinMFS, not the Live CD.

Start at

http://www.mfslive.org/

and explore from there.


----------



## tluxon

unitron said:


> ...
> If you're on a 750GB drive you probably already have as many partitions per drive as TiVo will allow, so the extra 250GB will sit there unused, assuming you plan to keep the shows you have recorded on the failing 750.
> ...


I'm not following you on the "_extra 250GB will sit there unused_" part. It was my understanding that I would be able to use all the extra space of the new larger drive for more recordings. Is that not the case?


> The MFS Live CD (most recent version is 1.4) is from the same guy as WinMFS, but it's strictly command line, white letters on black screen, no mouse necessary, I don't even think it loads a mouse driver.


Is there any kind of status indicator during the operation to help detect if the program is frozen as opposed to just taking a long time? Is there an easy way to ensure the right Disk ID's are used as the source and destination in the command line?

Between WinMFS and the MFSLive LinuxBoot CD method, is one any faster than the other? Does MFSLive have the same functions (mfsadd, supersize, et al.) as WinMFS? Or do you run WinMFS on the new drive after transferring the system and recordings to it with MFSLive?

Despite all my questions regarding MFSLive, I'm really hoping to do this operation with WinMFS. Does anybody know if a Live Boot CD method would allow the use of WinMFS? Otherwise, I'm thinking I might just want to leave the 1TB drive with the My Documents folder in place, temporarily replace the other SATA drive with the failing TiVoHD drive, and hook up the new SATA drive with my Universal Drive Adapter via USB (much slower).

Let's say just for grins that I elect to *not *transfer the recordings of the failing 750GB drive in the interest of saving a few hours in getting the new drive up and running. And let's say I have no desire to ever use the 750GB HDD in a TiVo again. Is there any tool at all that would mount this MFS drive from Windows or Linux and provide access to the recordings at a later date (like something akin to disaster recovery on NTFS volumes)?


----------



## ThreeSoFar

tluxon said:


> Is there any kind of status indicator during the operation to help detect if the program is frozen as opposed to just taking a long time?


Yes, there is, ascii output with a percentage.


tluxon said:


> Is there an easy way to ensure the right Disk ID's are used as the source and destination in the command line?


There is. Do this:

dmesg # or if that is too long do this:
dmesg | grep sd


This will show the boot logs, part of which will show which drive (the sd should be the sata drives) is which, by name and size. There's also the mfsinfo program, which should work with the MFS live CD. It's strictly read only, safe to run on any drive. It looks for TiVo partitions and if there gives you a rundown of the size:

mfsinfo /dev/sda
mfsinfo /dev/sdb




tluxon said:


> Between WinMFS and the MFSLive LinuxBoot CD method, is one any faster than the other? Does MFSLive have the same functions (mfsadd, supersize, et al.) as WinMFS? Or do you run WinMFS on the new drive after transferring the system and recordings to it with MFSLive?


WinMFS after a successful MFSLive transfer/upgrade will NOT be necessary. Otherwise, I'm not a good one to ask the MFSLive questions, I've only ever done the Linux version.


----------



## tluxon

ThreeSoFar said:


> ...WinMFS after a successful MFSLive transfer/upgrade will NOT be necessary. Otherwise, I'm not a good one to ask the MFSLive questions, I've only ever done the Linux version.


So if I use MFSLive via the LinuxBoot CD to copy/transfer the old 750GB HDD to the new 1TB HDD, I should have the full 165 Hours of HD capacity - right? No need for Supersize?

If so, now I'm leaning toward the LinuxBoot CD method...


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Spreading the joy here. $20 rebate on up to FIVE(5) WD20 EADS or EARS drives, from many online vendors (newegg, amazon, etc.).

It's good until 16 JAN.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

tluxon said:


> So if I use MFSLive via the LinuxBoot CD to copy/transfer the old 750GB HDD to the new 1TB HDD, I should have the full 165 Hours of HD capacity - right? No need for Supersize?
> 
> If so, now I'm leaning toward the LinuxBoot CD method...


Yes and no. One of the command line options (-x, see the usage statement with "restore -h") with the Linux method adds the "supersize" part once the "backup/restore" portion is done.

Use this site to generate your backup|restore command, or just the usage statements (for backup also) with some common sense will get you there.. It'll be something like this:

backup -qTao - /dev/sdb | restore -s 500 -xzpi - /dev/sda 

Use any of these to help figure out which is source and which is destination:

mfsinfo /dev/sda
mfsinfo /dev/sdb
fdisk -l
dmesg | grep sd


Reply here if you want some explanation of the pipe character "|" and the use of "-" to indicate stdout/stdin.


----------



## richsadams

ThreeSoFar said:


> Spreading the joy here. $20 rebate on up to FIVE(5) WD20 EADS or EARS drives, from many online vendors (newegg, amazon, etc.).
> 
> It's good until 16 JAN.


Good deal. Probably should post this over on the jmfs upgrade thread since this thread doesn't cover 2TB upgrades.

Nice find though. :up:

EDIT: I see you have.


----------



## tluxon

I just opened up the WD10EVDS I got from Newegg and see it has a date of 02 AUG 2010 on the label. Does this mean it's going to have the Intellipark issue requiring the running of wdidle3.exe to adjust the timeout to /s300? If so, when is the best time to run that utility? Does it run from inside Windows?

Also, the Western Digital website doesn't have a wdidle3.exe utility on the WD AV-GP page, and the page I found it on says to only use it on the drives covered by that page. Can anybody give me clarity on that?


----------



## unitron

Unless the WinMFS "supersize" function does something more, and more complicated, than the -x (expand) option/switch added when one runs the restore command on the MFS Live CD, then the "supersize" function won't be able to help if your source drive already has as many partitions as TiVo allows on one drive.

The TiVo is not a computer, it's not even a Mac. It's computer-y, and computer-ish, but it has some rules of its own about how things are.

It doesn't use the PC-type partition scheme that allows up to 4 primary partitions, one of which can be an extended partition full of lots and lots of logical partitions.

Although it uses the old Apple Partition Map, it doesn't follow the Apple rules either, so no 64 partitions per drive.

Chances are that when you originally upped your drive size the first and second pair of MFS partitions (as well as the non-MFS partitions) were copied over same size, except maybe swap, and then a third MFS pair was added to fill the rest of the drive.

The MFS partitions are where the recordings are kept, and the way you get more space for programs is to add more MFS partitions, but you can only have just so many per drive, and, as far as I know, you can't expand the ones you already have.

As far as I know, in order to use all of your new 1TB drive, you'll have to restore to it from an unexpanded image, either the one you made when you first upsized, or if your 750 will hold together long enough, a truncated backup from it, and then expand. Doing it that way means losing all of your recorded shows.

Oh, one other thing. Never use the -q option/switch, it just hides information from you.


----------



## richsadams

tluxon said:


> I just opened up the WD10EVDS I got from Newegg and see it has a date of 02 AUG 2010 on the label. Does this mean it's going to have the Intellipark issue requiring the running of wdidle3.exe to adjust the timeout to /s300? If so, when is the best time to run that utility? Does it run from inside Windows?


 The only way to find out if you need to adjust the Intellipark timeout is to perform the upgrade, install the drive in TiVo and see if it will boot up. If it boots up try a menu restart. If it reboots you're good to go. You can run the wdidle3.exe utility any time, before or after the upgrade.



tluxon said:


> Also, the Western Digital website doesn't have a wdidle3.exe utility on the WD AV-GP page, and the page I found it on says to only use it on the drives covered by that page. Can anybody give me clarity on that?


Follow the directions in Section V, #14 of the first post on this thread.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## tluxon

I just thought of another way that might work for this upgrade. I have a Dell XPS Studio 16 notebook with Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit on it and a couple USB drive enclosures (take either SATA or IDE). I realize the copying would be much, much slower, but that way I wouldn't even have to touch the drive configuration in my WinXP desktop. I could just let it run all day or however long it takes without any impact on my use of the desktop.

What do you think? Is that a pretty foolproof way to do the upgrade without having to open up the desktop? Or are there potential complications using USB ports as SATA drives and/or in using Win7 64-bit?


----------



## richsadams

tluxon said:


> I just thought of another way that might work for this upgrade. I have a Dell XPS Studio 16 notebook with Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit on it and a couple USB drive enclosures (take either SATA or IDE). I realize the copying would be much, much slower, but that way I wouldn't even have to touch the drive configuration in my WinXP desktop. I could just let it run all day or however long it takes without any impact on my use of the desktop.
> 
> What do you think? Is that a pretty foolproof way to do the upgrade without having to open up the desktop? Or are there potential complications using USB ports as SATA drives and/or in using Win7 64-bit?


That sounds like a fine plan for upgrading providing your computer recognizes the drives in the enclosures (some enclosures have bridges that could cause problems). That has worked for others as it's similar to using a USB adapter or dock.

The only issue will be if you have to adjust the Intellipark feature. That doesn't work with USB adapters/docks/enclosures and must be done with the hard drive connected directly to a SATA port on a computer.

There shouldn't be any issues running wimMFS (I think you're back to that) using 64bit Win7 as long as you're signed in as the Administrator and have any virus protection turned off.


----------



## tluxon

I ended up just using my WinXP desktop with WinMFS. I put the failing 750GB HDD on a USB Adapter and temporarily replaced the desktop's non-essential (the one without "My Documents" and "My TiVo Recordings" directed to it) SATA drive with the new WD10EVDS HDD. That way the writing operation to the TiVo destination drive is the one with the biggest pipe to the motherboard. So far it's been copying for 10.5 hours and has 37 of the 39 status bars filled in.

Before taking the drive out of the TiVo, I deleted a total of 67 shows from the Now Playing list. Unfortunately, it wasn't until after removing the drive that it occurred to me that I didn't remove them from the Recently Deleted list. I assume this forces mfscopy to copy even the deleted files, doesn't it? Can anyone confirm this?

When I pulled the failing drive, I saw that it was one of those Seagate DB35 drives I had put in both of my TiVoHD's when I first got them. That was the type of drive that was most recommended at the time. This one is only 3 years old and I seem to recall these drives having 5-year warranties on them. Anybody have experience with Seagate's backing of these drives?


----------



## richsadams

tluxon said:


> I ended up just using my WinXP desktop with WinMFS. I put the failing 750GB HDD on a USB Adapter and temporarily replaced the desktop's non-essential (the one without "My Documents" and "My TiVo Recordings" directed to it) SATA drive with the new WD10EVDS HDD. That way the writing operation to the TiVo destination drive is the one with the biggest pipe to the motherboard. So far it's been copying for 10.5 hours and has 37 of the 39 status bars filled in.
> 
> Before taking the drive out of the TiVo, I deleted a total of 67 shows from the Now Playing list. Unfortunately, it wasn't until after removing the drive that it occurred to me that I didn't remove them from the Recently Deleted list. I assume this forces mfscopy to copy even the deleted files, doesn't it? Can anyone confirm this?
> 
> When I pulled the failing drive, I saw that it was one of those Seagate DB35 drives I had put in both of my TiVoHD's when I first got them. That was the type of drive that was most recommended at the time. This one is only 3 years old and I seem to recall these drives having 5-year warranties on them. Anybody have experience with Seagate's backing of these drives?


You're correct, removing the Recently Deleted Recordings would have made the process go faster, but not a big deal.

IIRC Seagate DB35's did have a five-year warranty. I returned one (not a DB35) to Seagate once and it was painless. You might have a look on their website and see what you can find out.

Let us know how things go!


----------



## tluxon

The WD10EVDS with manufacture date 02 AUG 2010 seems to be working fine so far. No problem with the soft restart as of yet.

I'll see if I can find anything wrong with the 750GB Seagate DB35.3 drive I replaced. I hope whatever was wrong was just an isolated incident because my other TiVoHD has another of the same drive in it and I'd just as soon have it keep working for a while.

Thanks for your patience with my earlier indecision.


----------



## richsadams

tluxon said:


> The WD10EVDS with manufacture date 02 AUG 2010 seems to be working fine so far. No problem with the soft restart as of yet.
> 
> I'll see if I can find anything wrong with the 750GB Seagate DB35.3 drive I replaced. I hope whatever was wrong was just an isolated incident because my other TiVoHD has another of the same drive in it and I'd just as soon have it keep working for a while.
> 
> Thanks for your patience with my earlier indecision.


That's great news! There were a couple of other posts about EVDS drives manufactured prior to 09/15/10 not requiring the Intellipark setting adjusted (one as early as March 2010 IIRC). Seems they may have received the firmware change earlier than most of WD's other GP drives.

The Seagate DB35 was/is a good model. I still have a four-year old DB35 running as a backup drive and it's been flawless. It's so quiet I have to look at the LED light to see when it's working.

Enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## supernova

Just upgraded to a 1 TB WD10EURS drive with a date of 10/10 and it worked perfectly with no intellipark issue and the drive is also very quiet, better than the original 160 GB.
Bought it from Buy.com last week, it was cheaper than Newegg.


----------



## richsadams

supernova said:


> Just upgraded to a 1 TB WD10EURS drive with a date of 10/10 and it worked perfectly with no intellipark issue and the drive is also very quiet, better than the original 160 GB.
> Bought it from Buy.com last week, it was cheaper than Newegg.


Excellent and thanks for the datapoint. :up: I know they're quiet out of the box, but did you adjust the AAM to 128? The EURS series is WD's newest so I'm curious as to how quiet they actually are either way. TIA.

Enjoy!


----------



## supernova

richsadams said:


> Excellent and thanks for the datapoint. :up: I know they're quiet out of the box, but did you adjust the AAM to 128? The EURS series is WD's newest so I'm curious as to how quiet they actually are either way. TIA.
> 
> Enjoy!


I didn't do any adjustments, just left it as is right out of the box. Very pleased with it for sure!


----------



## richsadams

supernova said:


> I didn't do any adjustments, just left it as is right out of the box. Very pleased with it for sure!


D'oh! Never mind...I completely forgot that the EURS is an A/V dedicated drive series, so the AAM is already set to 128...very quiet. But thanks for not making me look the fool that I am for some reasons today! Oh, who am I kidding? Why would today be different than any other! 

Enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## Mahty

Mahty said:


> I just bought a WD15EVDS (born on 01Apr2010) for my S3. After using WinMFS to copy to the new drive a truncated backup image of the S3's original and long-ago-retired WD 250GB drive, I performed the transplant. Initial tests showed that the WD15EVDS had the IntelliPark soft-reboot problem.
> 
> However, that truncated image contained TiVo S/W version 8.0.1c. After updating the S/W on the new drive to the current 11.0g, the IntelliPark soft-reboot problem is gone!
> 
> So, at least for the S3 (and I would imagine the THD, THDXL, etc.), it seems that 11.0g contains a fix for the WD IntelliPark soft-reboot problem. Has this officially been established by the TiVo Community?


Another recent WD hard drive upgrade of mine (this time to a TiVoHD unit) has duplicated my above quoted experience from last spring.

Yesterday I copied a truncated backup image of my TiVoHD's original and long-ago-retired WD 160GB drive containing TiVo S/W version 9.3a to a new WD15EVDS (born on 29Sep2010). After the transplant, the new drive suffered from the IntelliPark soft-reboot problem. But once the TiVo S/W on the new drive was upgraded to the current 11.0j, the IntelliPark soft-reboot hang disappeared. There was no need to use wdidle3.exe.

So, from my two experiences with upgrades using WD15EVDS drives, it appears that TiVo S/W changes and not WD15EVDS changes are responsible for eliminating the IntelliPark soft-reboot problem. Perhaps the TiVo S/W changes (first appearing in v11.0g?) may only target/work with specific WD drives -- like the drives (WDxxEVDS?) that TiVo itself uses/has been using in its units?


----------



## richsadams

Mahty said:


> Another recent WD hard drive upgrade of mine (this time to a TiVoHD unit) has duplicated my above quoted experience from last spring.
> 
> Yesterday I copied a truncated backup image of my TiVoHD's original and long-ago-retired WD 160GB drive containing TiVo S/W version 9.3a to a new WD15EVDS (born on 29Sep2010). After the transplant, the new drive suffered from the IntelliPark soft-reboot problem. But once the TiVo S/W on the new drive was upgraded to the current 11.0j, the IntelliPark soft-reboot hang disappeared. There was no need to use wdidle3.exe.
> 
> So, from my two experiences with upgrades using WD15EVDS drives, it appears that TiVo S/W changes and not WD15EVDS changes are responsible for eliminating the IntelliPark soft-reboot problem. Perhaps the TiVo S/W changes (first appearing in v11.0g?) may only target/work with specific WD drives -- like the drives (WDxxEVDS?) that TiVo itself uses/has been using in its units?


Your experience with the EVDS series is only unusual because they are not commonly used to upgrade TiVo's. The change made to the WD A/V dedicated EVDS (and the EVCS) series which eliminated the need to adjust the Intellipark timeout to avoid initial boot and/or soft reboot hangs occurred sometime in March 2010. That same change (or something similar) did not take effect in other WD GP drives until around September 11th. For some a few days before, others a few days later. So the "safe" date for lack of a better term and day is September 15th.

TiVo made their own software change to address the problem for the TiVo HDXL (which has a 1TB HDD) when it was first discovered there was a problem back in late 2009. (At the moment I don't recall the OS version). The same change was later made to the OS for the Series3 and the TiVo HD. Prior to that change a number of owners of the then new TiVo HDXL found their TiVo's hung at the "Powering Up! Just a few minutes more..." screen after an earlier software update. TiVo was caught by surprise by WD's firmware change as well. A power cycle (hard reboot) resolved the hang, but they were not happy campers.

That's why using an original TiVo HDD that hasn't been updated to image a new WD10EVDS or WD10EVCS drive (manufactured after March 2010) incurs the problem but it "goes away" after the new drive updates to the current OS version.

Keeping the original TiVo drive on the shelf as a backup as you did is highly recommended. It's also recommended that the OEM drive be reinstalled in TiVo periodically to let it update to the latest software version. (Updates are not incremental so it only requires one update.) That way if/when the OEM drive is needed for use, either to get TiVo going again and/or to image a new drive it's ready with the latest (or close to) software.

If you want to update an original TiVo drive, simply install it and let it run for a while (usually 24 to 48 hours) or you can force a connection to TiVo. (It may take several connections before the update will appear.)

1. TiVo Central
2. Messages and settings
3. Settings
4. Phone and network
5. Connect to the TiVo service now

Once the download has finished and loaded look at the "Last Status" line on that screen or in System Information and if it says "Pending restart" instead of a date your new software will automatically install at 2 a.m. your time. Or you can reboot TiVo and it will install the update immediately. You will see these two screens during the reboot process when it does.

You can reboot TiVo via the menu screens:

1. TiVo Central
2. Messages & Setup
3. Restart or reset system
4. Restart the TiVo DVR

Or you can simply unplug it, wait about 10 seconds for the hard drive to spin down and plug it back in.

Oh, that reminds me...I need to update my TiVo drives!

Enjoy your "new" TiVo's!


----------



## tluxon

richsadams said:


> tluxon said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...When I pulled the failing drive, I saw that it was one of those Seagate DB35 drives I had put in both of my TiVoHD's when I first got them. That was the type of drive that was most recommended at the time. This one is only 3 years old and I seem to recall these drives having 5-year warranties on them. Anybody have experience with Seagate's backing of these drives?
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> IIRC Seagate DB35's did have a five-year warranty. I returned one (not a DB35) to Seagate once and it was painless. You might have a look on their website and see what you can find out.
> 
> Let us know how things go!
Click to expand...

I ran a SeaTools Long Generic Test and Repair on the "failing" DB35 drive. It took about 6 hours and found over 3,000 errors, but when all was said and done it said the drive passed! I contacted Seagate Support and they told me if the drive "passed" then it was considered to still be good.

I don't know about others, but after having so many errors "repaired", I'm not sure what I should do with this drive if Seagate wouldn't take it back. Should I keep using it as some kind of backup drive? What do you think?


----------



## richsadams

tluxon said:


> I ran a SeaTools Long Generic Test and Repair on the "failing" DB35 drive. It took about 6 hours and found over 3,000 errors, but when all was said and done it said the drive passed! I contacted Seagate Support and they told me if the drive "passed" then it was considered to still be good.
> 
> I don't know about others, but after having so many errors "repaired", I'm not sure what I should do with this drive if Seagate wouldn't take it back. Should I keep using it as some kind of backup drive? What do you think?


All large format hard drives have bad sectors, it goes with the territory and I/O control and other internal and external factors are designed to deal with it. I'd run the test again to see what comes back. If the error rate is still high I'd probably make a case to Seagate for a replacement. If not using it as a backup drive would depend on how critical the information is I guess.

Me? If it still has a high error rate after a second test and if Seagate won't replace it and since the drive is older I'd probably call it a day.


----------



## terryjamison

I've got a WD10EADS drive that's been sitting around for the last year. The date of manufacture is 17 SEP 2009. Will intellipark be an issue on the drive?

TIA


----------



## richsadams

terryjamison said:


> I've got a WD10EADS drive that's been sitting around for the last year. The date of manufacture is 17 SEP 2009. Will intellipark be an issue on the drive?
> 
> TIA


Hard to say. That's just about the time the issue started showing up. The only way to find out would be to perform the upgrade and install it in TiVo. If it boots up, try a menu restart. If it doesn't boot up or if it doesn't reboot from a menu restart then you'd need to run wdidle3.exe to adjust the Intellipark timeout per the instructions in the FAQ (Section V, #14):

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160

Let us know how it goes!


----------



## synch22

anyone noticed an increase in pixelation with drive upgrades? I swear with the old original drive this was a very rare occurnece and i know sometimes attributed to the cable signal. With the new drive WD10EADS i have noticed this much more on live as well as recorded programs. Other than that all is fine and well just wondered if this is something to be aware of (drive issue ) ?


----------



## dalmeida

FYI. I've just experienced a drive failure with my external drive a Hitachi CinemaStar 7K1000 1TB running in an Apricorn-EZ-BUS enclosure. It's been running flawlessly for one month shy of three years until now. I'm not sure if I'm going back to Hitachi for their DeskStar 7k1000. Don't want to lose all my recordings again.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

dalmeida said:


> FYI. I've just experienced a drive failure with my external drive a Hitachi CinemaStar 7K1000 1TB running in an Apricorn-EZ-BUS enclosure. It's been running flawlessly for one month shy of three years until now. I'm not sure if I'm going back to Hitachi for their DeskStar 7k1000. Don't want to lose all my recordings again.


That blows, sorry man.

To review: External expansion == bad; internal drive REPLACE/upgrade/upsize == good (and easy!)


----------



## dalmeida

ThreeSoFar said:


> That blows, sorry man.
> 
> To review: External expansion == bad; internal drive REPLACE/upgrade/upsize == good (and easy!)


I may just do that I didn't want to screw with it last time while the box was still under warranty. At this point the internal Tivo disk is probably reaching the near end of its effective lifespan.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

dalmeida said:


> I may just do that I didn't want to screw with it last time while the box was still under warranty. At this point the internal Tivo disk is probably reaching the near end of its effective lifespan.


I've never worried about the warranty thing. I've always just kept one of the original hard drives around on a shelf, just in case.

And I've often resold those barely ever used original drives for a few bucks.


----------



## mherdeen

We just picked up a Tivo Premier to replace an older series 2 Tivo. We had a WDG1S5000VN - "Western Digital My DVR Expander 500 GB eSATA" that was used on an older series 3 Tivo without a problem. I tried adding this drive to the new Premiere unit and the tivo is telling me it's not a compatible drive.

This model drive had been an "approved" drive on a Series 3 and worked just fine. Does anyone know if this drive _should _work with a Tivo premiere? I've read through much of the posts here for help, but with 240+ pages.....

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. I'm really hoping we don't have to buy yet another external drive.

Thanks!


----------



## ThreeSoFar

mherdeen said:


> We just picked up a Tivo Premier to replace an older series 2 Tivo. We had a WDG1S5000VN - "Western Digital My DVR Expander 500 GB eSATA" that was used on an older series 3 Tivo without a problem. I tried adding this drive to the new Premiere unit and the tivo is telling me it's not a compatible drive.
> 
> This model drive had been an "approved" drive on a Series 3 and worked just fine. Does anyone know if this drive _should _work with a Tivo premiere? I've read through much of the posts here for help, but with 240+ pages.....
> 
> Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. I'm really hoping we don't have to buy yet another external drive.
> 
> Thanks!


Series 2 to Premiere....wow, you're making quite the jump! You'll love it!

What you _should_ do is replace the internal drive with a 2TB drive that costs under $100. The external drive adds another point of failure, and sucks away a bunch of power on top of that. ANd when it fails, you lose ALL the recordings you have.

Seriously, PM me, send me $95, and I'll order a 2TB like the ones i just got for my new premieres, upgrade it and ship it out to you in Jersey. You'll need a couple Torx screwdrivers/bits (I believe it's T10 and T15) to crack open your new box and replace the drive (and put the drive it came with on the shelf for warranty/backup purposes). But you'll get about 300 hours of HD goodness. It'll be a "factory" drive, so you'll have to repeat the guided setup and such.


----------



## bkrodgers

Just wanted to report that I've now done my second upgrade of a THD to a WD20EARS drive using jmfs for copy and expand only, and WinMFS for the supersize option only. It works great! The first one I did back at the start of December has been working flawlessly as well for almost 2 months now. On the one I just did, I did have to go back to the original drive, since I'd previously upgraded that THD (losing recordings and season passes made since that upgrade 3 years ago). But I had enough space on my other THD to transfer what I cared about over there, and then transfer it back after the upgrade. As with the WD20EARS from my first upgrade, I did need to use WDIDLE3 to turn off InteliPark.

317 HD hours is an amazing thing. I can't recommend it enough, and with the $80 post rebate price, I think it should be a really easy decision. (I got mine from Newegg with the extra $10 off, so $70 AR, but that extra $10 has expired.)

My original post with descriptions of what I did:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8264374#post8264374

On a side note, it was a bit funny to see the season passes for long since canceled shows that I had on the original Tivo Drive. Anyone remember Journeyman? Bionic Woman?

On another side note, I just dug up the invoice from when I upgraded to 1TB just over 3 years ago. I paid $270 for 1TB back then. I just paid $70 for 2TB. Amazing.


----------



## richsadams

bkrodgers said:


> Just wanted to report that I've now done my second upgrade of a THD to a WD20EARS drive using jmfs for copy and expand only, and WinMFS for the supersize option only.


Congratulations! :up: Just to be clear for those that follow, the Supersize option in the jmfs program works fine with TiVo Premiere and Premiere XL upgrades...the models the program was designed for. Although the program also happens to work with TiVo HD/HDXL's (not Series3's), the Supersize option does not. But as bkrodgers and others have pointed out, 2TB TiVo HD/HDXL upgraded drives can be supersized using winMFS.

For those interested in upgrading TiVo Premiere, Premiere XL, visit this thread:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968

For those interested in a 2TB upgrade for the TiVo HD/HDXL, visit this thread:

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179

FWIW when the eSATA drive hack was first discovered for the original Series3 I paid $259 for a Seagate 500GB DB35 hard drive (on sale!) plus another $49 for an Antec MX-1 enclosure. I never thought I'd ever fill up that much recording space! Now I'm about to drop a 2TB drive into our Premiere XL for <$75. Sigh.

Enjoy you "new" TiVo!


----------



## ThreeSoFar

richsadams said:


> ...the Supersize option ....


Quick clarification: By supersize you mean supersize and NOT the expand option, correct?


----------



## richsadams

ThreeSoFar said:


> Quick clarification: By supersize you mean supersize and NOT the expand option, correct?


Yes indeed, just Supersize (reclaiming the TiVo Clips space).


----------



## vasilemj

By nature, there's been so much discussion about upgrading Series 3 drives and Premiere Tivos but my question is about upgrading an old Series2 drive. I have an old steady 140 series with software version 9.3.2b. Any thoughts on whether the WD10EURS might work in this old dinosaur?

I'm aware I'll need to get a SATA to IDE adapter.


----------



## terryjamison

No soft re-boot problem to report on this particular WD Green drive with the above date of manufacture.

I followed the FAQ and instructions. It took all of 35 minutes. I even went into the drive with HDDscan to lower the noise.

I used a USB 2.0 to SATA/IDE hard drive adapter. I wish that I would have had a second adapter. Then , I would have transfered my recordings as well.

Thanks-


----------



## terryjamison

richsadams said:


> Hard to say. That's just about the time the issue started showing up. The only way to find out would be to perform the upgrade and install it in TiVo. If it boots up, try a menu restart. If it doesn't boot up or if it doesn't reboot from a menu restart then you'd need to run wdidle3.exe to adjust the Intellipark timeout per the instructions in the FAQ (Section V, #14):
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160
> 
> Let us know how it goes!


No soft re-boot problem to report on this particular WD Green drive with the above date of manufacture.

I followed the FAQ and instructions. It took all of 35 minutes. I even went into the drive with HDDscan to lower the noise.

I used a USB 2.0 to SATA/IDE hard drive adapter. I wish that I would have had a second adapter. Then , I would have transfered my recordings as well.

Thanks-


----------



## richsadams

terryjamison said:


> No soft re-boot problem to report on this particular WD Green drive with the above date of manufacture.
> 
> I followed the FAQ and instructions. It took all of 35 minutes. I even went into the drive with HDDscan to lower the noise.
> 
> I used a USB 2.0 to SATA/IDE hard drive adapter. I wish that I would have had a second adapter. Then , I would have transfered my recordings as well.
> 
> Thanks-


Great to know. Enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## unitron

vasilemj said:


> By nature, there's been so much discussion about upgrading Series 3 drives and Premiere Tivos but my question is about upgrading an old Series2 drive. I have an old steady 140 series with software version 9.3.2b. Any thoughts on whether the WD10EURS might work in this old dinosaur?
> 
> I'm aware I'll need to get a SATA to IDE adapter.


Allow me to recommend that you read through all of this thread

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=416883

before buying that adapter.

I'm running 2 WD1001FALS Caviar Black 1TB drives in one Series 2 Dual Tuner and another one in a second of that same model, so the size probably won't be a problem and a quick google of "tivo series 2 wd10eurs" doesn't pop up any horror stories. You should find out if that whole wdidle thing will need to be worried about, and plan accordingly.


----------



## Mahty

Although just last week I upgraded a TiVoHD using the tried-and-true WinMFS tools on a new WD15EVDS (born on 29Sep2010 and having the IntelliPark soft-reboot hang issue), I have since become aware of the jmfs/WinMFS combo option for getting even more internal recording space out of a TiVoHD. (I really should learn to better keep up with these forums.) Since I still have a number of days left during which I can return the WD15EVDS for a full refund, I launched into an effort to see if I could use the jmfs/WinMFS combo method to maximally &#8220;comerize&#8221; a 2TB drive for use in the TiVoHD.

To this end I purchased online for store pickup a WD20EVDS from Fry&#8217;s. However, when I got the drive last night I noticed it was a WD20EURS. (It seems that Fry&#8217;s is currently using the WD20EVDS Fry's product number for both the WD20EVDS drive and the WD20EURS drive. Indeed, the Fry&#8217;s sticker on the anti-static bag reads WD20EVDS/EURS. Curiously, searching for the WD20EURS product on Fry&#8217;s website currently results in no product matches.) Now, although I understand that the new WDxxEURS line of AV-GP products is the successor to the WDxxEVDS line, I was still a bit unnerved to get a drive different than the one I had ordered. After all, I do have experience now with two TiVo upgrades using WD15EVDS drives. (My other WD15EVDS drive, by the way, was born on 01Apr2010 and also had the IntelliPark soft-reboot hang issue.) I had the Fry&#8217;s salesman check his store&#8217;s remaining inventory on that Fry&#8217;s product number, but all (4?) were reported to be WD20EURS. Oh, well. Assuming that the jmfs/WnMFS combo method will work for me, does anybody have any reasons for NOT using a WD20EURS in lieu of a WD20EVDS?

Before I begin my jmfs efforts, I did a quick check to see if the WD20EURS (born on 05Nov2010) had the IntelliPark soft-reboot hang issue. I used WinMFS to copy to the WD20EURS a truncated backup image of the TiVoHD&#8217;s OEM drive. This particular image still has TiVo SW v9.3a, which will allow the soft-reboot issue, if present, to manifest itself. (During my two aforementioned WD15EVDS upgrade efforts, the soft-reboot hangs were eliminated with updates to the then current TiVo SW -- from v8.0.1c to v11.0g on a TiVoS3 and from v9.3a to v11.0j on a TiVoHD). I can happily report that the WD20EURS does NOT have the IntelliPark soft-reboot hang issue, i.e., the TiVoHD soft-rebooted just fine with TiVo SW v9.3a and the WD20EURS.


----------



## richsadams

Mahty said:


> Assuming that the jmfs/WnMFS combo method will work for me, does anybody have any reasons for NOT using a WD20EURS in lieu of a WD20EVDS?


 A number of folks are using the newer WDxxEURS drives in their TiVo successfully, so no worries.



Mahty said:


> I can happily report that the WD20EURS does NOT have the IntelliPark soft-reboot hang issue, i.e., the TiVoHD soft-rebooted just fine with TiVo SW v9.3a and the WD20EURS.


Thanks for that info...good to know. :up: Whatever the WD firmware change was it appears that they made it to their A/V GP line of drives earlier than the rest; sometime in March 2010. The "about" date that they implemented the change in the rest of their GP drives is September 15, 2010. So either way, your drive was good to go.

Enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## RayChuang88

Speaking of expansion drives, has either TiVo or Western Digital commented at the recent CES show about higher-capacity expansion drives for the TiVo HD XL beyond 1 TB? I'd *LOVE* to be able to attach a potential external 2 TB version of the WD _My Book AV_ drive and get up to 450 hours for HD recordings.


----------



## richsadams

RayChuang88 said:


> Speaking of expansion drives, has either TiVo or Western Digital commented at the recent CES show about higher-capacity expansion drives for the TiVo HD XL beyond 1 TB? I'd *LOVE* to be able to attach a potential external 2 TB version of the WD _My Book AV_ drive and get up to 450 hours for HD recordings.


That would be nice but TiVo's current partition setup is limited to 2TB. DIY experiments (by both enthusiasts and professionals) haven't yielded anything beyond that that didn't end up failing. It doesn't seem likely that TiVo would rethink their OS for anything but newer models either.

FWIW a DIY 2TB TiVo HDXL is quite easy to accomplish if you're comfortable connecting a hard drive to a computer. Having a single internal drive has a lot of benefits including keeping the fail points to a minimum. More here:

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179


----------



## crank11

Many thanks for this thread. I upgraded my Tivo in about 40 minutes total. I didn't care about transferring shows since I move most to my iPad for consumption.

Another data point: WD10EVDS (dated 14 Oct 10) installed flawlessly with no soft boot problems. Don't know why I didn't do this years ago!

Some notes after performing the upgrade:
- I used a BlacX docking station to transfer my Tivo img from the old internal drive to the new. No problems at all.
- Highly recommend magnetic tip on your screw driver or having some sort of small magnet handy. There are two screws that are pretty deep in the Tivo and are super easy to drop.
- Have an air blaster can handy. I couldn't believe all the dust inside the Tivo.
- Follow the FAQ to completion. I almost forgot to turn on MFSSupersize because I got a little anxious.

Great FAQ! Recommend adding the WD10EVDS to the approved list. I just bought another one for my second Tivo HD ($80 on Amazon).


----------



## richsadams

crank11 said:


> Many thanks for this thread. I upgraded my Tivo in about 40 minutes total. I didn't care about transferring shows since I move most to my iPad for consumption.
> 
> Another data point: WD10EVDS (dated 14 Oct 10) installed flawlessly with no soft boot problems. Don't know why I didn't do this years ago!
> 
> Some notes after performing the upgrade:
> - I used a BlacX docking station to transfer my Tivo img from the old internal drive to the new. No problems at all.
> - Highly recommend magnetic tip on your screw driver or having some sort of small magnet handy. There are two screws that are pretty deep in the Tivo and are super easy to drop.
> - Have an air blaster can handy. I couldn't believe all the dust inside the Tivo.
> - Follow the FAQ to completion. I almost forgot to turn on MFSSupersize because I got a little anxious.
> 
> Great FAQ! Recommend adding the WD10EVDS to the approved list. I just bought another one for my second Tivo HD ($80 on Amazon).


Welcome to the forum. Thanks for all of the great info and congratulations! (Getting to that one screw on the upper RH side of the sled is a PIA isn't it? ) As the older WD drives (pre-9/15/10) that required the Intellipark timeout to be changed get flushed out of the system I think we'll be able to "reinstate" all of their models into the recommended list.

Nice work and enjoy!


----------



## news4me2

$69.99 for WD20EARS 2TB Drive at Newegg (after Rebate and $10 Discount coupon)... Special Pricing thru Jan 31st.

Deal description at Fat Wallet:

http://www.fatwallet.com/best-deals/western-digital-caviar-green-2tb-hard-drive-1/


----------



## jon96cobra

Not a bad deal for a 2TB drive.


----------



## chris401

Just posting to mention my absolute hate and frustration for Tivo's external upgrade path. I have a Tivo HD which has been chugging along okay for some time now. This fall, I decided that life would be easier without having to worry about watching something before it got deleted. To save time (so I thought), I went with the officially supported, My Book AV DVR Expander. That is to say, I have been through five (5) My Book AV DVR Expanders, three (3) different eSATA cables, and many missed shows. It is simply not a stable situation. Using a new eSATA cable this last week, I thought I had finally solved the problem, but little did I know, all week it kept restarting only to ultimately get stuck on during live TV recently. When re-booting, it hung during start up. 

I have been using tivo 2003 (not as long as some), but I'm starting to get annoyed. This is officially supported, but Tivo blames WD and WD blames Tivo, so no one can explain it and solve the problem. I haven't done the research in years, but is there any DVR alternative out there that offers the same Tivo-ease-of-use? I'm on antenna, not dish or cable or fios or uverse, so it needs to be able to handle that. I really don't have the time to build my own system. But surely by now there is a decent competitor??


----------



## ThreeSoFar

chris401 said:


> Just posting to mention my absolute hate and frustration for Tivo's external upgrade path. I have a Tivo HD which has been chugging along okay for some time now. This fall, I decided that life would be easier without having to worry about watching something before it got deleted. To save time (so I thought), I went with the officially supported, My Book AV DVR Expander. That is to say, I have been through five (5) My Book AV DVR Expanders, three (3) different eSATA cables, and many missed shows. It is simply not a stable situation. Using a new eSATA cable this last week, I thought I had finally solved the problem, but little did I know, all week it kept restarting only to ultimately get stuck on during live TV recently. When re-booting, it hung during start up.
> 
> I have been using tivo 2003 (not as long as some), but I'm starting to get annoyed. This is officially supported, but Tivo blames WD and WD blames Tivo, so no one can explain it and solve the problem. I haven't done the research in years, but is there any DVR alternative out there that offers the same Tivo-ease-of-use? I'm on antenna, not dish or cable or fios or uverse, so it needs to be able to handle that. I really don't have the time to build my own system. But surely by now there is a decent competitor??


TiVo is the best. The external drive is your problem, stop using it.

What model TiVo do you have? You can upgrade the INTERNAL drive to 1TB or 2TB, depending on the model. That's almost 150 or 300 hours of HD, respectively.


----------



## richsadams

chris401 said:


> Just posting to mention my absolute hate and frustration for Tivo's external upgrade path. I have a Tivo HD which has been chugging along okay for some time now. This fall, I decided that life would be easier without having to worry about watching something before it got deleted. To save time (so I thought), I went with the officially supported, My Book AV DVR Expander. That is to say, I have been through five (5) My Book AV DVR Expanders, three (3) different eSATA cables, and many missed shows. It is simply not a stable situation. Using a new eSATA cable this last week, I thought I had finally solved the problem, but little did I know, all week it kept restarting only to ultimately get stuck on during live TV recently. When re-booting, it hung during start up.
> 
> I have been using tivo 2003 (not as long as some), but I'm starting to get annoyed. This is officially supported, but Tivo blames WD and WD blames Tivo, so no one can explain it and solve the problem. I haven't done the research in years, but is there any DVR alternative out there that offers the same Tivo-ease-of-use? I'm on antenna, not dish or cable or fios or uverse, so it needs to be able to handle that. I really don't have the time to build my own system. But surely by now there is a decent competitor??


How frustrating! Although the original 500GB WD My DVR Expanders had quite a few problems and most ended up failing after 12 to 18 months, the new 1TB My DVR Expanders seem to be doing better. AFAIK this is the first negative post about the latest WD My Book AV DVR Expander having problems. Not a good sign.

The issue is almost certainly with WD's product. There are a lot of folks here that ended up building their own eSATA drives...often using WD drives with someone else's enclosure (most popular being the Antec MX-1). Plenty of them were put into service two or three years ago and even longer and they are still humming along.

That said, I agree with ThreeSoFar (as usual) in that there really is nothing better than TiVo out there. I also agree that eliminating the second fail point and upgrading the internal drive is your best bet.

You could buy a pre-imaged drive from Weaknees.com or DVRUprgade.com. Or if you're comfortable connecting a hard drive to a computer, a little DIY project to create a 2TB drive (317 Hours of HD recording) is actually pretty easy. Cost is <$100. More here:

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179

Hope that helps and let us know how it goes!


----------



## bareyb

Ditto on the dump the external and upgrade the internal. It's easier than you think and 1 TB is about all the space most people will ever need. 

QUESTION: Does TiVo automatically restore all your Season Passes when you upgrade the drive now like it does when you upgrade to an HD Premiere? THAT would really make the process painless. Anyone know? Rich?


----------



## richsadams

bareyb said:


> QUESTION: Does TiVo automatically restore all your Season Passes when you upgrade the drive now like it does when you upgrade to an HD Premiere? THAT would really make the process painless. Anyone know? Rich?


Hey Barey! The answer is generally yes but it depends on how you upgrade. Using winMFS or jmfs yes, always. Both copy over all of your settings, SP's, etc. jmfs makes an exact copy of whatever is on your drive and then you just expand the new drive.

If you were to use Instant Cake or buy a drive from a third party you'd want to make sure to set up TiVo's online Season Pass Manager so you can repopulate the SP's after swapping out drives:

http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/gettivoanywhere/howto_seasonpass-manager.html


----------



## bareyb

richsadams said:


> Hey Barey! The answer is generally yes but it depends on how you upgrade. Using winMFS or jmfs yes, always. Both copy over all of your settings, SP's, etc. jmfs makes an exact copy of whatever is on your drive and then you just expand the new drive.
> 
> If you were to use Instant Cake or buy a drive from a third party you'd want to make sure to set up TiVo's online Season Pass Manager so you can repopulate the SP's after swapping out drives:
> 
> http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/gettivoanywhere/howto_seasonpass-manager.html


Hey Rich! 

Actually, I'm talking about someone who has to _replace_ their drive because it failed. They are starting with a a blank drive they bought themselves or a pre-imaged drive from Weaknees with nothing on it except the TiVo software. No settings and no Season Passes.

Someone here posted that when it connects to the server the first time, it not only upgrades your software to the lastest version, it also gets all your SP's from "the cloud" (TiVo website has them if you opted IN) and restores them for you. Any idea if that's true? Seems like it's feasible.... but I have a feeling that only works when you buy a whole new BOX (such as buying a new Premiere HD to replace an S3), but I thought I'd ask. It would sure be a nice insurance policy.


----------



## dgel

Hi. I have a Direct Tivo series 2 R10, about 8 yrs old, freezing about everyother day--very annoying. Guessing hardrive is going. Can i only upgrade with certain kind of drives? Want to just open unit and replace and it'll be ready to go. Thanks


----------



## richsadams

bareyb said:


> Hey Rich!
> 
> Actually, I'm talking about someone who has to _replace_ their drive because it failed. They are starting with a a blank drive they bought themselves or a pre-imaged drive from Weaknees with nothing on it except the TiVo software. No settings and no Season Passes.
> 
> Someone here posted that when it connects to the server the first time, it not only upgrades your software to the lastest version, it also gets all your SP's from "the cloud" (TiVo website has them if you opted IN) and restores them for you. Any idea if that's true? Seems like it's feasible.... but I have a feeling that only works when you buy a whole new BOX (such as buying a new Premiere HD to replace an S3), but I thought I'd ask. It would sure be a nice insurance policy.


Yes, that's true. TiVo automatically upgrades to the latest OS version (it's immediate, not incremental). Plus I know if you sign up for TiVo Guru Guide or KidZone that TiVo automatically populates your SP's. My understanding is that once you set up TiVo's online Season Pass Manager that the same thing happens but I can't confirm that. However, even if it didn't automatically download the SP's, you could certainly "command" it from the the TiVo Season Pass Manager. A little foresight is all it takes.


----------



## richsadams

dgel said:


> Hi. I have a Direct Tivo series 2 R10, about 8 yrs old, freezing about everyother day--very annoying. Guessing hardrive is going. Can i only upgrade with certain kind of drives? Want to just open unit and replace and it'll be ready to go. Thanks


Do you mean that you want to just open your TiVo, pull the hard drive and drop in a new one? If so, DVRUpgrade.com or Weaknees.com (they are actually owned by the same folks now) is what you need. They have pre-imaged drives that are plug and play.


----------



## MikeAndrews

vasilemj said:


> By nature, there's been so much discussion about upgrading Series 3 drives and Premiere Tivos but my question is about upgrading an old Series2 drive. I have an old steady 140 series with software version 9.3.2b. Any thoughts on whether the WD10EURS might work in this old dinosaur?
> 
> I'm aware I'll need to get a SATA to IDE adapter.


It'll work fine. I put a 500GB SATA drive in a series 2DT using the IDE adapter from eBay mentioned here and WinMFS. There's no reason 1TB and even 1.5TB won't work (other than only getting ~1.3TB with the 1.5TB drive.)


----------



## retiredqwest

I found a while back that the above Comers JMFS would copy and expand a stock drive to a 2TB target drive.

I used a previous version rev .68 to do this on my THD and then later on my TP. I tried to copy and expand a target drive created using Winmfs, but it never worked and I thought we were stuck with only using the stock drive as the source drive.

Comer then released a rev 1.04 that turned on supersize for the TP, it doesn't work for the THD. I didn't think of trying to copy and expand an already expanded drive with the new version.

That's where Kenva comes in. He tried his previously expanded 1TB drive and copied and expanded it to a 2TB using rev 1.04. I did the same thing last night and it appears to work.

So, if you have an already expanded THD drive, you should be able to use Comers JMFS rev 1.04 successfully.

We have another thread that discusses all of this http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179


----------



## shady

I purchased a WD10EARS to upgrade my Series 3 (this will be the second time, I'm actually replacing the upgraded disk that is now failing).

I connected this new disk to a spare sata connector in my win7 64 bit machine and ran HDDScan. 

Although HDDScan recognizes this drive, the "IDE Features" button is disabled.

Any Ideas what's wrong?


----------



## kettledrum

shady said:


> I purchased a WD10EARS to upgrade my Series 3 (this will be the second time, I'm actually replacing the upgraded disk that is now failing).
> 
> I connected this new disk to a spare sata connector in my win7 64 bit machine and ran HDDScan.
> 
> Although HDDScan recognizes this drive, the "IDE Features" button is disabled.
> 
> Any Ideas what's wrong?


I have the same problem as you, although I'm running a much older computer and upgrading to a WD20EARS.

See my experience here and in the next 6 posts after that..... http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8319815#post8319815


----------



## richsadams

shady said:


> I purchased a WD10EARS to upgrade my Series 3 (this will be the second time, I'm actually replacing the upgraded disk that is now failing).
> 
> I connected this new disk to a spare sata connector in my win7 64 bit machine and ran HDDScan.
> 
> Although HDDScan recognizes this drive, the "IDE Features" button is disabled.
> 
> Any Ideas what's wrong?


Be sure you're signed on as the Administrator, have all virus scan software turned off and see Section IV, #29 of the FAQ regarding a possible BIOS setting change.


----------



## shady

kettledrum said:


> I have the same problem as you, although I'm running a much older computer and upgrading to a WD20EARS.
> 
> See my experience here and in the next 6 posts after that..... http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8319815#post8319815


Thanks Kettledrum,

I used a USB - sata adapter instead and I was able to get into the IDE Features.

I've now changed my acoustic settings. Tonight I'll do the transfer


----------



## shady

Well, I got through the whole transfer and everything seemed to go well, but now it sticks on the powering up screen.

I'll try the Bios setting change next, although I thought that didn't affect the first boot


----------



## ThAbtO

It sounds like its the Intellipark issue.


----------



## richsadams

shady said:


> Well, I got through the whole transfer and everything seemed to go well, but now it sticks on the powering up screen.
> 
> I'll try the Bios setting change next, although I thought that didn't affect the first boot


When was your hard drive manufactured?


----------



## shady

richsadams said:


> When was your hard drive manufactured?


July 2010

I'm up and running now.
I applied the intellipark fix and everything is working just fine. I even tried the soft reboot.

One thing to note, without the intellipark fix, It wouldn't even boot up from a hard reboot (pulling power).

Anyway, thanks to everyone who contribute in this thread, I've extended the life of my Series 3


----------



## richsadams

shady said:


> July 2010
> 
> I'm up and running now.
> I applied the intellipark fix and everything is working just fine. I even tried the soft reboot.
> 
> One thing to note, without the intellipark fix, It wouldn't even boot up from a hard reboot (pulling power).
> 
> Anyway, thanks to everyone who contribute in this thread, I've extended the life of my Series 3


Thanks very much for that. So far WD GP hard drives manufactured _after_ September 15th no longer require the Intellipark setting to be adjusted. It's the luck of the draw right now though...some vendors have newer ones, some older.

As noted earlier, it seems even some of the drives built prior to 09/15/10 will actually boot up and perform a menu restart, but after that (as you experienced) they'll hang when either are subsequently performed until the Intellipark setting is adjusted. Good to know though.

Glad to hear things are good now however...enjoy!


----------



## dlfl

Is there a theory that TiVo HD upgrades, once the software is updated to current (11.0j), don't have the Intellipark issues with any drive? Or is the catch-22 that you can't get it upgraded?


----------



## richsadams

dlfl said:


> Is there a theory that TiVo HD upgrades, once the software is updated to current (11.0j), don't have the Intellipark issues with any drive? Or is the catch-22 that you can't get it upgraded?


So far WD GP drives manufactured after September 15, 2010 do _not_ have to have the Intellipark setting adjusted providing they have the current TiVo OS. (Applies to all TiVo's.) So if the upgrade will be employing an original TiVo drive that hasn't been in service for a while, it's best to install it in TiVo, force an update and then perform the upgrade.


----------



## dlfl

richsadams said:


> So far WD GP drives manufactured after September 15, 2010 do _not_ have to have the Intellipark setting adjusted providing they have the current TiVo OS. (Applies to all TiVo's.) So if the upgrade will be employing an original TiVo drive that hasn't been in service for a while, it's best to install it in TiVo, force an update and then perform the upgrade.


In my case I have the original HDD removed in Sept. 2009 and the WinMFS backup image from it. If I understand correctly my choices would be:
1) Do what you say above.
--or --
2) Use wdidle3 on the new drive and just restore the Sept. 09 image to it.

Correct? (This is keeping it simple by just assuming a 1 TB new drive. In actuality I probably could not resist going for 2 TB.)


----------



## richsadams

dlfl said:


> In my case I have the original HDD removed in Sept. 2009 and the WinMFS backup image from it. If I understand correctly my choices would be:
> 1) Do what you say above.
> --or --
> 2) Use wdidle3 on the new drive and just restore the Sept. 09 image to it.
> 
> Correct? (This is keeping it simple by just assuming a 1 TB new drive. In actuality I probably could not resist going for 2 TB.)


I'm not sure about your second method. I don't recall anyone going that direction. I can't say if it's a combination of the current TiVo software and tweaking Intellipark or if just tweaking Intellipark would do it now so it might also depend on the new drive's manufacture date. IIRC some folks still had their TiVo's hang until they updated their TiVo drive.

All of that said, it could also depend on what upgrade you want to perform...

- 1TB using your truncated backup or original drive (winMFS would work).
- 1TB using your existing upgraded drive (winMFS would work IF your upgraded drive is <1TB, 500GB for example).
- 1TB using your existing upgraded drive (jmfs would work IF your upgraded drive is <1TB, 500GB for example).).
- 2TB using your original or existing upgraded drive (jmfs would work).

Unless you have an aversion to updating your original drive, I'd go with my first suggestion, but your call of course. For the price per gig, etc., 2TB is the way to go IMHO and the jmfs upgrade program is easier to use than winMFS (although it takes longer since it copies an entire drive and then expands it...good excuse to have a beer or two):

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179


----------



## gwehmann

I'm trying to marry the 1TB WD MyDVR Expander with my 500GB Hitachi HD that has been working beautifully in my Tivo HD since I upgraded it 2 years ago. I connect them both to my Win 7 computer & run WinMFS as Administrator. I then select the Hitachi as the A drive (it is listed as drive 2) & the WD MyDVR as the B drive (it is listed as drive 0). I then click on Tools\MFSAdd and after getting past the standard warning, it thows up an error message that says "Mfsadd failed!", followed by an error message that says "Error Number: 8" and on the next line "Error Message: Nothing to do!". I've checked all over this forum and the internet, and I can't find anybody with similar issues.

One thing I want to mention. When I began the process of marrying my two drives, I didn't run WinMFS as Administrator, and when I went to select the drives, there was nothing to select. I then decided to go into Computer Management, and it offered to initialize them. Without thinking, I said yes, then realized that that might have been a big mistake. WinMFS then said that my Tivo drive was not a Tivo drive, and I knew I had made a mistake. I then went into WinMFS and did Tools\Fix bootpage\Option 1 on my Tivo hd, and everything was back to normal. I put it back into my Tivo and everything started up normal. With the WD MyDVR expander (which I had also initialized in Windows), I just did the Delete Format (I'm remembering the exact menu item from memory) on that one & I'm assuming I'm good to go.

Just wanted to put that info out there in case anyone's thinking that might be causing me my problems. Anyone have any ideas why I might be getting the "Nothing to do!" error message?
Thanks ahead of time.
Greg


----------



## richsadams

gwehmann said:


> I'm trying to marry the 1TB WD MyDVR Expander with my 500GB Hitachi HD that has been working beautifully in my Tivo HD since I upgraded it 2 years ago. I connect them both to my Win 7 computer & run WinMFS as Administrator. I then select the Hitachi as the A drive (it is listed as drive 2) & the WD MyDVR as the B drive (it is listed as drive 0). I then click on Tools\MFSAdd and after getting past the standard warning, it thows up an error message that says "Mfsadd failed!", followed by an error message that says "Error Number: 8" and on the next line "Error Message: Nothing to do!". I've checked all over this forum and the internet, and I can't find anybody with similar issues.
> 
> One thing I want to mention. When I began the process of marrying my two drives, I didn't run WinMFS as Administrator, and when I went to select the drives, there was nothing to select. I then decided to go into Computer Management, and it offered to initialize them. Without thinking, I said yes, then realized that that might have been a big mistake. WinMFS then said that my Tivo drive was not a Tivo drive, and I knew I had made a mistake. I then went into WinMFS and did Tools\Fix bootpage\Option 1 on my Tivo hd, and everything was back to normal. I put it back into my Tivo and everything started up normal. With the WD MyDVR expander (which I had also initialized in Windows), I just did the Delete Format (I'm remembering the exact menu item from memory) on that one & I'm assuming I'm good to go.
> 
> Just wanted to put that info out there in case anyone's thinking that might be causing me my problems. Anyone have any ideas why I might be getting the "Nothing to do!" error message?
> Thanks ahead of time.
> Greg


Welcome to the forum...sorry it's under such frustrating circumstances. I know Fix bootpage can usually restore things for internal drives that were accidentally initialized in Windows Disk Management (as that's what gets corrupted), however I don't recall anyone doing that to an expansion drive. There is no boot page per say so I'm afraid there may not be much else you can do. I hope that's not the case and perhaps someone else will chime in.

The only thing I can think to do would be to reinstall your original TiVo drive and fire TiVo up. I don't know if you were using your eSATA drive with the original drive, but if so and the warning screen comes up that it can't find the external drive, go ahead with the divorce procedure (three thumbs down, etc.). Then connect the external drive and go through the add screens. When you connect the external drive it will automatically be reformatted. Then you may be able to go through the upgrade/bless (marry) procedure again to make things right.

Hope that helps and let us know how you get on.


----------



## Jason.Nina

Hey Guys,

My Series3 is having a more frequent spontaneous reboot. I would like to replace the drive before it is lost so I can keep my shows and settings.

The Series3 has the original internal drive. I have an eSATA that I assembled. It is an Antec case with a 750 GB Seagate DB35.3.

I saw in the FAQ that I may lose the ability to have an external drive when I replace the original. Did I read this right?

Last thing, I see that a local Brick and Motor store carries a Western Digital GP Caviar, but the model number doesn't match up to anything I can find elsewhere. The specs look okay to my eye except for IntelliPark:

&#8226;1TB maximum storage capacity
&#8226;Serial ATA interface
&#8226;Data transfer rates up to 3 Gbps
&#8226;IntelliPower (5400 rpm - 7200 rpm) for fast read/write times
&#8226;8.9 ms average seek time
&#8226;IntelliSeek and IntelliPark features help lower power consumption

Would this be okay?

Thanks,
Jason


----------



## richsadams

Jason.Nina said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> My Series3 is having a more frequent spontaneous reboot. I would like to replace the drive before it is lost so I can keep my shows and settings.
> 
> <snip>


If you're using winMFS or MFSTools to upgrade your Series3 from stock to a 1TB drive you do lose the plug and play external drive option. However you can bless or "marry" an external drive during the upgrade process. Details are included in the first post.

Although the first post hasn't been updated in a little while it's still current with respect to the upgrade process...nothing has changed.

Many, many folks here are successfully using WD GP drives including yours truly. The specs look fine/normal. Can you post the model number?

With respect to Intellipark, if the drive was manufactured after September 15th, 2010 there's nothing to worry about. If it was manufactured prior to that it's possible that the Intellipark setting will need to be adjusted per the first post/FAQ to avoid it hanging on the initial boot or menu restart. The date of manufacture is printed on the label on the hard drive itself. If you can open the box you can check it out.

Now, all of that having been said, it may be that your external drive is the issue...might be the eSATA cable or something else. Before jumping to replacements and such, you might want to read this post and see if anything applies:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7553444#post7553444

FWIW your best bet would be to go ahead and upgrade your internal hard drive to 1TB and not reconnect the external drive as it's just an additional fail point IMHO.

Hope that helps and happy upgrading!


----------



## Jason.Nina

richsadams said:


> If you're using winMFS or MFSTools to upgrade your Series3 from stock to a 1TB drive you do lose the plug and play external drive option. However you can bless or "marry" an external drive during the upgrade process. Details are included in the first post.
> 
> Although the first post hasn't been updated in a little while it's still current with respect to the upgrade process...nothing has changed.
> 
> Many, many folks here are successfully using WD GP drives including yours truly. The specs look fine/normal. Can you post the model number?
> 
> With respect to Intellipark, if the drive was manufactured after September 15th, 2010 there's nothing to worry about. If it was manufactured prior to that it's possible that the Intellipark setting will need to be adjusted per the first post/FAQ to avoid it hanging on the initial boot or menu restart. The date of manufacture is printed on the label on the hard drive itself. If you can open the box you can check it out.
> 
> Now, all of that having been said, it may be that your external drive is the issue...might be the eSATA cable or something else. Before jumping to replacements and such, you might want to read this post and see if anything applies:
> 
> FWIW your best bet would be to go ahead and upgrade your internal hard drive to 1TB and not reconnect the external drive as it's just an additional fail point IMHO.
> 
> Hope that helps and happy upgrading!


That's great advice, thank you. The drive model is listed as: Model: WDBAAY0010HNC-NRSN | SKU: 8492026

I'm not sure what that is, though. It doesn't match up with any drives listed in the recommended, but it is a 1TB Caviar GP. I can price match it at the Navy Exchange to save on the sales tax. So, it would cost me ~65 (I hope that doesn't violate any forum rules).

I'm going to follow your advice in the other forum to test the drives. I did disconnect/connect the eSATA last night to firm up the connections and clean the dust out of the drive enclosure. If I end up replacing the internal drive I think I'll take your advice and forgo the eSATA.

Thank you


----------



## unitron

Jason.Nina said:


> That's great advice, thank you. The drive model is listed as: Model: WDBAAY0010HNC-NRSN | SKU: 8492026
> 
> I'm not sure what that is, though. It doesn't match up with any drives listed in the recommended, but it is a 1TB Caviar GP. I can price match it at the Navy Exchange to save on the sales tax. So, it would cost me ~65 (I hope that doesn't violate any forum rules).
> 
> I'm going to follow your advice in the other forum to test the drives. I did disconnect/connect the eSATA last night to firm up the connections and clean the dust out of the drive enclosure. If I end up replacing the internal drive I think I'll take your advice and forgo the eSATA.
> 
> Thank you


That number is the number on the box.

You may find the same drive in a box with a different number.

For example I have 3 (on sale the day after Thanksgiving Caviar Black) WD1001FALS drives I got from Best Buy.

The two that came from the local store say

WD10000LSRTL

on the sticker on the bottom of the box.

The third, which bestbuy.com shipped to me, says

WDBAAZ0010HNC-NRSN

on the sticker on the bottom of the box

but it's the same drive inside.

WDBAAY0010HNC-NRSN

googles up a bunch of listings, including one at Newegg, and the big version of the pictures shows the drive itself with

WD10EADS

on the label.

Oddly enough the Newegg page for the OEM/bare drive WD10EADS doesn't show any pictures of the label on the drive, just the insides of it, and they want $5 more than they're asking for the retail box version.


----------



## MPSAN

Newegg has the WD10EARS for $54.99 and free shipping with promo code EMCKHJB26 not bad at all, if you ONLY need 157 HD hours!!


----------



## hoyty

Just wanted to post what so far seems to be a sad follow-up to my success mentioned in previous post. I had a power outage today and it appears the new replacement drive is dead. With it in the S3 only gets to welcome screen and no farther. I still have my original 250 GB and I popped it in and it booted right up (to a 3 year old image before I got FIOS). I am going to pull the drive and see if I can mount it in a PC. However I am not hopeful. After succeding to recover the data of the last failing drive, kind of a downer to lose it all for real most likely this time less than 2 months later. I guess I get to go back to WD for another replacement.


----------



## L David Matheny

hoyty said:


> Just wanted to post what so far seems to be a sad follow-up to my success mentioned in previous post. I had a power outage today and it appears the new replacement drive is dead. With it in the S3 only gets to welcome screen and no farther. I still have my original 250 GB and I popped it in and it booted right up (to a 3 year old image before I got FIOS). I am going to pull the drive and see if I can mount it in a PC. However I am not hopeful. After succeding to recover the data of the last failing drive, kind of a downer to lose it all for real most likely this time less than 2 months later. I guess I get to go back to WD for another replacement.


Doesn't that sound like the old IntelliPark issue? Read up on that.


----------



## hoyty

L David Matheny said:


> Doesn't that sound like the old IntelliPark issue? Read up on that.


I thought about that, but I am not sure why it would suddenly happen? If it is I should be able to mount it in a PC. I will report back once I get in a PC.


----------



## hoyty

L David Matheny said:


> Doesn't that sound like the old IntelliPark issue? Read up on that.


Very confused, but happy I must say. I attached the "failed" replacement drive to a PC and it seemed to mount fine. I didn't show up to WinMFS, which I am not sure why. I then rebooted with the WDIDLE3 boot disk. One note for others is I couldn't get WDIDLE3 to recognize anything other than a single or at least primary master. After working around that issue I used WDIDLE3 /d on the drive. (It was set to 8 seconds before.) I then stuck the drive back into S3 and it worked. I am not sure if it was the WDIDLE3 or simply attaching the drive to the PC? I also can't figure out why this drive worked perfectly for almost 2 months (through other power outages and reboots) and then suddenly stopped.

Either way I am happy it appears to be working again and hope it stays that way.


----------



## unitron

hoyty said:


> Very confused, but happy I must say. I attached the "failed" replacement drive to a PC and it seemed to mount fine. I didn't show up to WinMFS, which I am not sure why. I then rebooted with the WDIDLE3 boot disk. One note for others is I couldn't get WDIDLE3 to recognize anything other than a single or at least primary master. After working around that issue I used WDIDLE3 /d on the drive. (It was set to 8 seconds before.) I then stuck the drive back into S3 and it worked. I am not sure if it was the WDIDLE3 or simply attaching the drive to the PC? I also can't figure out why this drive worked perfectly for almost 2 months (through other power outages and reboots) and then suddenly stopped.
> 
> Either way I am happy it appears to be working again and hope it stays that way.


Go get yourself an uninterruptable power supply for that TiVo.

I think either Staples or Best Buy has them on sale at the moment.


----------



## hoyty

unitron said:


> Go get yourself an uninterruptable power supply for that TiVo.
> 
> I think either Staples or Best Buy has them on sale at the moment.


Agreed, very much so. Will do so today after shoveling the latest round of snow in MD.


----------



## unitron

hoyty said:


> Agreed, very much so. Will do so today after shoveling the latest round of snow in MD.


I'll try to send up some of our warm coastal breeze. : - )

(of course it's usually accompanied by rain)


----------



## bowlingblogger

unitron said:


> Go get yourself an uninterruptable power supply for that TiVo.


+1. I have a Cyberpower UPS hooked up to a mine and it's been rock solid.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Newegg has $10 off code on any hard drive, BTEKHHJ27, through 27 FEB.


----------



## billbillw

ThreeSoFar said:


> Newegg has $10 off code on any hard drive, BTEKHHJ27, through 27 FEB.


I tried this code and it would not work on the WD10EVDS, so apparently, its only for certain drives. Do you have any more info on this code? Where did you find it?


----------



## MikeAndrews

ThreeSoFar said:


> Newegg has $10 off code on any hard drive, BTEKHHJ27, through 27 FEB.


It's only for _external_ hard drives.


----------



## billbillw

netringer said:


> It's only for _external_ hard drives.


Thanks for clarifying that. Unfortunately, that doesn't help me.

I'm looking to upgrade our bedroom HDTivo from the original 160GB drive. Its just too small.

What do you guys think about a Seagate ST3500414CS (500GB) for only $33? That is from an Ebay seller who claims the drives are new OEM drives and guarantees them out of the box for 30 days.

I know, 1TB is so standard (and cheap) these days, but that 500GB Seagate is one of the quietest drives ever tested and in our bedroom, that is important.

I guess its either that Seagate, or one of the 1TB WD Green drives. I just don't know if I can justify doubling the price since we really don't use the bedroom Tivo near as much.


----------



## Thunderclap

I'm trying to backup my Tivo HD 160GB drive but WinMFS keeps saying it's *Not a Tivo Drive. Backup failed!* This is the original drive that came with the unit. I have Windows 7 x64 and I'm running WinMFS as Admin. Any ideas what's wrong?

DISREGARD: I booted into Safe Mode and that got it working.


----------



## MPSAN

billbillw said:


> Thanks for clarifying that. Unfortunately, that doesn't help me.
> 
> I'm looking to upgrade our bedroom HDTivo from the original 160GB drive. Its just too small.
> 
> What do you guys think about a Seagate ST3500414CS (500GB) for only $33? That is from an Ebay seller who claims the drives are new OEM drives and guarantees them out of the box for 30 days.
> 
> I know, 1TB is so standard (and cheap) these days, but that 500GB Seagate is one of the quietest drives ever tested and in our bedroom, that is important.
> 
> I guess its either that Seagate, or one of the 1TB WD Green drives. I just don't know if I can justify doubling the price since we really don't use the bedroom Tivo near as much.


Bill, does this help on a wd10ears from Newegg? See my post #7285. Not sure it still works.

EMCKHJB26 was $10 off and free shipping to make it $54.99.

P.S. Picked my wife up from airport last night as she was in Atlanta Perimeter center area.


----------



## MikeAndrews

I just - so far successfully - upgraded my #2 Original Series 3 OLED from the OEM 250GB Western Digital drive to a 1.5TB Western Digital WD15EVDS Green AV-GP drive using WinMFS to get the 1.35GB of space. WinMFS ran without error.

It did one stutter-lock up-reboot on the first boot but it's working. I guess I shouldn't push things*. At least the reboot proves it doesn't have the soft boot problem.

I'll let it burn in and post how it goes.

It's showing 213HD/1860SD hours. 

It was at at an alarming 44C with the cover off but it's down to 42C now. I put the cover on but the fact that I'm holding the screws out shows how much confidence I have.

* I'm getting the impression that the slowdowns- reboots happen when the disk is swamped with requests. In this case maybe it was frantically indexing the new drive and checking for updated program info when I tried to play a saved video. The lesson is to let it breathe for a few minutes but see the next post.


----------



## MikeAndrews

Has anybody who has put in a 2TB drive in a Premiere with Comer's JFS tool gotten the drive nearly filled up yet?

As I've posted my Premiere upgraded with a WD20EURS has started doing slowdowns-lock ups and reboots. I was blaming the heat but last night it died at a cool 32C. I'm thinking the drive is bad. (I happen to have yet another 2TB WD Green drive in my media NAS that slows writes to a crawl when it warms up.)

Maybe these AV drives are really the wrong choice for a Tivo?


----------



## ThreeSoFar

netringer said:


> Has anybody who has put in a 2TB drive in a Premiere with Comer's JFS tool gotten the drive nearly filled up yet?
> 
> As I've posted my Premiere upgraded with a WD20EURS has started doing slowdowns-lock ups and reboots. I was blaming the heat but last night it died at a cool 32C. I'm thinking the drive is bad. (I happen to have yet another 2TB WD Green drive in my media NAS that slows writes to a crawl when it warms up.)
> 
> Maybe these AV drives are really the wrong choice for a Tivo?


Ours have WD20EARS in them, and yes, I assume they're full. We have TiVo suggestions on, so they should be full.

First S4: The HDUI is showing 49% (turned it on just to see that), which I assume does not show the suggestions. And our Suggestions folder shows 209 things. System Information shows temp of 35C on this one (it's vertical).

Second S4: Not sure about the % full on the HDUI (it's in the other room), but the suggestions on that one show 334 items.

Both are working fine.


----------



## richsadams

netringer said:


> I was blaming the heat but last night it died at a cool 32C. I'm thinking the drive is bad. (I happen to have yet another 2TB WD Green drive in my media NAS that slows writes to a crawl when it warms up.)
> 
> Maybe these AV drives are really the wrong choice for a Tivo?


Wow...32c? Do you have it inside a refrigerator? I've never seen a TiVo drive run that cool...might have something to do with the problem, maybe not...but it just seems unusual. The only time I can get drives running that cool is inside a server farm.

Did you try running some of the Kickstarts?

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

Try disconnecting all of the inputs (cable/coax, broadband, etc...everything except the TV) and see how it goes. If it runs fine w/o anything connected it sounds like an I/O error correction issue...could be the signal or other input overload or it could just be a faulty drive.

FWIW I don't think a dedicated A/V drive is the problem as TiVo comes with A/V drives. Might just be a faulty drive. It happens.

Let us know how things go.


----------



## MikeAndrews

billbillw said:


> I tried this code and it would not work on the WD10EVDS, so apparently, its only for certain drives. Do you have any more info on this code? Where did you find it?





netringer said:


> It's only for _external_ hard drives.


NewEgg has code EMCKHHF224 for 10% off internal drives through 2/24/11.

I'm thinking of taking a chance on a Seagate ST32000542AS for $79.99 before the 10% discount to replace the WD in my Premiere, as well as chance on the the apes at NewEgg warehouse throwing my drive into a box. I have one that works.

Is that a bad idea?

I'm probably pushing my luck to think I'll get two that work, but I may have two 2TB WDs that have failed. Do any of these things work these days?


----------



## bmal1

Everything I read in this thread and on other sites is that the Seagate drives are loud. I bought one and then exchanged it for a WD10EVDS which has been extremely quiet. I didn't want to take the chance with Seagate after researching, and I didn't want to risk having my wife ask me daily why she can hear the Tivo.


----------



## replaytv

I see that a "magnetic tip is preferable" for the tool to open up the Tivo. I have always heard that you should not use any magnetic tools near a hard drive. Is this not true?


----------



## richsadams

replaytv said:


> I see that a "magnetic tip is preferable" for the tool to open up the Tivo. I have always heard that you should not use any magnetic tools near a hard drive. Is this not true?


There's one screw on the hard drive's sled mounting bracket that's a little difficult to get a screw back into place, but it's really not that bad. (You'll see which one it is as soon as you go to remove it.) I've never had to use a magnetic driver to do it. Put in the other three screws first and the last one should drop into place fairly easily.

That said, hard drives are shielded well enough that a regular magnetic screwdriver won't do any harm. I've used them on computers I've built and shops use them during computer repairs all of the time. It takes a pretty heavy duty electromagnet to cause problems these days.

But if you want to play it safe, just use a regular, non-magnetic Torx driver and have a little patience.


----------



## ThAbtO

richsadams said:


> But if you want to play it safe, just use a regular, non-magnetic Torx driver and have a little patience.


A torx-15 and my fingernail holds the screw on to get it into place.


----------



## gwehmann

richsadams said:


> Welcome to the forum...sorry it's under such frustrating circumstances. I know Fix bootpage can usually restore things for internal drives that were accidentally initialized in Windows Disk Management (as that's what gets corrupted), however I don't recall anyone doing that to an expansion drive. There is no boot page per say so I'm afraid there may not be much else you can do. I hope that's not the case and perhaps someone else will chime in.
> 
> The only thing I can think to do would be to reinstall your original TiVo drive and fire TiVo up. I don't know if you were using your eSATA drive with the original drive, but if so and the warning screen comes up that it can't find the external drive, go ahead with the divorce procedure (three thumbs down, etc.). Then connect the external drive and go through the add screens. When you connect the external drive it will automatically be reformatted. Then you may be able to go through the upgrade/bless (marry) procedure again to make things right.
> 
> Hope that helps and let us know how you get on.


I'm just now getting back to posting my results from my issue from 2/14 where I couldn't marry the WD My DVR to my previously upgraded internal hard drive on my Tivo HD. Rich, your advice was exactly what I needed. My original internal hard drive had never been married to the WD My DVR, so I put the original hard drive back into the Tivo and connected the WD My DVR and restarted the Tivo. It married the two successfully. I then took my upgraded internal hard drive (the one that I could not marry to the WD My DVR) and connected that & the My DVR to my desktop. I did this about a week ago and should have posted my results right away, but after running WinMFS, it might have seen that the My DVR was married to another hd, and either just warned me that it would no longer be married to that hd, or I actually had to run the divorce command in WinMFS (I'm not sure that's what the command is actually called, but it was one of the ones available under Tools). Once I ran MFSAdd it said that it was successful, and after placing the hd back into my tivo and adding the My DVR, everything is running beautifully!
In the end, it appears the issue was that I had initialized the My DVR in windows and that was keeping WinMFS from seeing it as a viable drive.
Thanks Rich for your help and suggestions!


----------



## richsadams

gwehmann said:


> Rich, your advice was exactly what I needed.


If it's okay with you...I'm going to make a poster out of that part of your answer and hang it on my home office wall so I can refer to it when my wife questions my wisdom (it _has_ happened). 

Enjoy!


----------



## salboy

Just finished TiVoHD upgrade to WD10EVDS (Jan. 26, 2011 build date). Spent hours and hours trying to address Intellipark issue but wdidle3 would only hang (blinking cursor, no report of Intellipark setting - had to power down and reboot) no matter what switch I used (/d, /s300,/r). NOTE: DISCONNECT ALL OTHER DRIVES BEFORE MESSING WITH WDIDLE3. Confirmed AHCI disabled in BIOS (my Dell BIOS has two options, AHCI or ATA, and I confirmed it was set to ATA, but I tried it both ways many times). Booted to WinXP with only WD10EVDS connected and confirmed XP install could see the drive. Finally gave up on wdidle3 and proceeded with upgrade. TiVoHD booted fine and booted on soft re-boot - no hang, no crash. Fingers crossed Intellipark issue is no more.

The drive's full model number is WD10EVDS-63U8B1.


----------



## ThAbtO

salboy said:


> Just finished TiVoHD upgrade to WD10EVDS (Jan. 26, 2011 build date). TiVoHD booted fine and booted on soft re-boot - no hang, no crash. Fingers crossed Intellipark issue is no more.
> 
> The drive's full model number is WD10EVDS-63U8B1.


I think you're clear of IP.


----------



## VSG

I am trying to do a TCD230040 hdd replacement....I have a winrar file of that ....i execute in to a fat32 drive and proceed with MFSlive....

backup -f 9999 -qso -/dev-hda | restore -s 64 -xzpi - /dev/hdd


but no workie? 

What am I doing wrong?

Please and thank you!


----------



## ThAbtO

VSG said:


> I am trying to do a TCD230040 hdd replacement....I have a winrar file of that ....i execute in to a fat32 drive and proceed with MFSlive....
> 
> backup -f 9999 -qso -/dev-hda | restore -s 64 -xzpi - /dev/hdd
> 
> but no workie?
> 
> What am I doing wrong?
> 
> Please and thank you!


Maybe because of the FAT32.


----------



## richsadams

salboy said:


> Finally gave up on wdidle3 and proceeded with upgrade. TiVoHD booted fine and booted on soft re-boot - no hang, no crash. Fingers crossed Intellipark issue is no more.


Per numerous earlier posts, WD GP drives manufactured after September 15, 2010 (and earlier with WD GP A/V dedicated drives), the Intellipark setting no longer has to be tweaked. Thanks for the datapoint though and enjoy your "new" TiVo! :up:


----------



## VSG

If not FAT32, then what?


----------



## ThreeSoFar

VSG said:


> I am trying to do a TCD230040 hdd replacement....I have a winrar file of that ....i execute in to a fat32 drive and proceed with MFSlive....
> 
> backup -f 9999 -qso -/dev-hda | restore -s 64 -xzpi - /dev/hdd
> 
> but no workie?
> 
> What am I doing wrong?
> 
> Please and thank you!


Please describe more in detail what you have in hand and what you're trying to do. What is the size of the new drive, and make and model?

You mention a winrar file, and yet the backup|restore line you quote takes an entire hard drive as source (the /dev/hda except you made a typo, i assume, and wrote "/dev-hda") to write to (restore -i -) a new/blank drive.

If the winrar archive contains an MFS backup of your original system, then this may work. Unpack the winrar file into it's original file, the backup image of a TCD230040. Then use that fixed file, wherever it resides**, as the input to the restore command.


----------



## VSG

Yes, I did mean /dev/hda..

What's this about restore -i - ?

I need an image for a broken 230040...which I already have....

The image is not from that box....

So...I formatted 1 drive to fat32 and executed the winrar file to expand onto a 80GB WD tivo drive....about 170 mb? from what I can recall...That's hooked up as hda..

Then another wd80gb Tivo drive hooked up via usb, hence the sdb..oops..I originally wrote hdd...

I do the shift+page up to see where it mounts it....


----------



## unitron

VSG said:


> I am trying to do a TCD230040 hdd replacement....I have a winrar file of that ....i execute in to a fat32 drive and proceed with MFSlive....
> 
> backup -f 9999 -qso -/dev-hda | restore -s 64 -xzpi - /dev/hdd
> 
> but no workie?
> 
> What am I doing wrong?
> 
> Please and thank you!


First of all, never use the -q switch, it just hides information from you.

You can hook up your original TiVo drive to your computer and do a truncated backup to a file that you store on your computer's hard drive, which is not a bad idea at all.

In order to do that you first have to mount the FAT32 partition.

Then you can use the restore command to go from that file to a new drive with which you are going to replace your original TiVo drive (and put the original on a shelf as another backup).

Or you can hook up to your computer both your original TiVo drive and the drive with which you intend to replace it, and do the backup pipe restore routine to go from Tivo drive to memory to new Tivo drive, leaving your computer's hard drive out of things entirely. In fact you can have your computer's hard drive disconnected from the computer, and probably should to prevent accidents.

I get the feeling that you're trying to do both at once.

If you're trying to go from Tivo drive to new Tivo drive:

Here's your command line:

backup -f 9999 -qso -/dev-hda | restore -s 64 -xzpi - /dev/hdd

Here's how it should read:

backup -f 9999 -so - /dev/hda | restore -s (probably something a lot bigger than 64) -pi - /dev/hdd

(take careful note of where the spaces are)

where old TiVo drive is hda and new TiVo drive is hdd

The -z switch doesn't seem to be necessary these days.

Instead of including the -x switch, you can run without it and make sure the new drive works and then go back and use the mfsadd command to expand the drive.

Of course if you want to save the shows you have recorded you'd start out

backup -Tao - /dev/hda


----------



## ThreeSoFar

VSG said:


> Yes, I did mean /dev/hda..
> 
> What's this about restore -i - ?
> 
> I need an image for a broken 230040...which I already have....
> 
> The image is not from that box....
> 
> So...I formatted 1 drive to fat32 and executed the winrar file to expand onto a 80GB WD tivo drive....about 170 mb? from what I can recall...That's hooked up as hda..
> 
> Then another wd80gb Tivo drive hooked up via usb, hence the sdb..oops..I originally wrote hdd...
> 
> I do the shift+page up to see where it mounts it....


You need to MOUNT the FAT32 drive that has the winrar expanded on it, something like below. The fdisk -l should show you the right device (which partition on the hda disk). The ls and find commands are to find the right path to your .bak file. After the restore finishes, the mfsinfo should confirm the new drive is now a valid TiVo drive.

mkdir /mnt/disk
fdisk -l
mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/disk
ls -al /mnt/hda1
find /mnt/disk
restore -s 64 -xzpi /mnt/disk/PATH/TO/YOUR/tivo.bak /dev/sdb
mfsinfo /dev/sdb


----------



## VSG

OK,i'm in way over my head....

I'm using the mfslive cd

none of this was mentioned in the guide...I've been using winmfs, which is very easy of course....but the .bak image is not compatible with winmfs, of course.

I will go through the guide again - thanks for your patience! Sorry, i'm just not getting it...all I got was error msgs when trying the above commands...doesn't exist etc..


----------



## unitron

VSG said:


> OK,i'm in way over my head....
> 
> I'm using the mfslive cd
> 
> none of this was mentioned in the guide...I've been using winmfs, which is very easy of course....but the .bak image is not compatible with winmfs, of course.
> 
> I will go through the guide again - thanks for your patience! Sorry, i'm just not getting it...all I got was error msgs when trying the above commands...doesn't exist etc..


Okay, let's see if I've got this straight.

You've got a TCD230040 and the original hard drive from it is missing or broken or the bits on it are scrambled or something.

You've got a winrar file of an MFS backup image for that model.

You've restored that image file to a FAT32 partition.

You want to use that image file to go onto an 80GB drive which you will then use in your TiVo.

You've got the FAT32 drive hooked up as the primary (or master) drive on the first (or perhaps only) IDE controller.

That makes it /dev/hda, and the partition on it /dev/hda1

You're attaching the 80GB drive (that's eventually going into the TiVo) via a USB adapter.

That makes it /dev/sda unless you have another drive attached by USB or a SATA port on the motherboard, in which case it would be /dev/sdb

Since you mention sdb we'll go with that.

Let's pretend your image file is "230040.bak"

The existance of that image file means someone else has already run the "backup" command, so all we have to worry about is "restore".

Boot from the MFS Live cd.

It creates a directory called "dos". We'll use that, since it's empty.

First mount the source partition with the backup image file to a directory/mount point

mount -t vfat /dev/hda1 /dos

The -t tells the mount command that what comes next (in this case vfat--virtual file allocation table--, or FAT32) is the type of file system used by the device being mounted.

/dev/hda1 is the device (particular partition on a particular drive) being mounted.

/dos is the directory/mount point where it's being mounted.

Now that it's mounted, it's accessible, so we proceed to restore the image file to the new drive

restore -s 64 -xpi /dos/230040.bak /dev/sdb

The -s says the number to follow is the size in MB to make the swap partition. You could use a bigger number.

The -x switch says to expand (i.e., add MFS partition pairs to fill the drive) after doing the restore. This can be ommitted until after the restore is done and tested in the TiVo and then done via the mfsadd command.

The -p switch says to use the Series 2 partition layout (instead of the original Series 1 layout).

The -i says that the next thing is where the restore command finds its input, in this case the .bak file.

Finally, you specify the target of the command, in this case the drive the OS and command see as /dev/sdb.

After the restore command runs, you can use pdisk -l to see the TiVo partitions that have been created, however you may need to reboot for mfsinfo not to deliver an error message. I think it has something to do with initializing the new partition table or something like that, but I could be wildly mistaken.


----------



## VSG

Wow Unitron!

That was perfect!!

Thank you SO much! 

Excellent explanation as well!!

Thanks again!


----------



## pyork2

Does the MFSLive Boot CD method take advantage of the "supersized" space that WinMFS does?


----------



## billbillw

billbillw said:


> Thanks for clarifying that. Unfortunately, that doesn't help me.
> 
> I'm looking to upgrade our bedroom HDTivo from the original 160GB drive. Its just too small.
> 
> What do you guys think about a Seagate ST3500414CS (500GB) for only $33? That is from an Ebay seller who claims the drives are new OEM drives and guarantees them out of the box for 30 days.
> 
> I know, 1TB is so standard (and cheap) these days, but that 500GB Seagate is one of the quietest drives ever tested and in our bedroom, that is important.
> 
> I guess its either that Seagate, or one of the 1TB WD Green drives. I just don't know if I can justify doubling the price since we really don't use the bedroom Tivo near as much.


To follow up...
I did end up getting the ST3500414CS. The seller ended up lowering the price to $32 shipped. I installed it today and it is indeed a very quiet drive. It should be...its only a single platter, spinning at 5900rpm! Perfect for a bedroom unit. The seller seems to get these in batches. He is sold out now, but may offer them again. I found it by searching for the drive model in descriptions.


----------



## lrhorer

billbillw said:


> To follow up...
> I did end up getting the ST3500414CS. The seller ended up lowering the price to $32 shipped. I installed it today and it is indeed a very quiet drive. It should be...its only a single platter, spinning at 5900rpm! Perfect for a bedroom unit.


Good for you. Excellent post, BTW. This really illustrates how the specific application can affect the decision of what path to take. In general, 1T drives are preferable both from a space and cost per bit perspective, but the fact the unit is to sit in a bedroom makes the sound factor more important than a few cents per Gig cost difference or a factor of 2 in space. 500G is a little on the low side, but acceptable for many applications, and the lack of noise makes it the better choice.


----------



## unitron

lrhorer said:


> Good for you. Excellent post, BTW. This really illustrates how the specific application can affect the decision of what path to take. In general, 1T drives are preferable both from a space and cost per bit perspective, but the fact the unit is to sit in a bedroom makes the sound factor more important than a few cents per Gig cost difference or a factor of 2 in space. 500G is a little on the low side, but acceptable for many applications, and the lack of noise makes it the better choice.


I'm beginning to think the way to go is to get a big ol' huge drive and put it in a computer running Tivo Desktop and store your shows that way instead of on the TiVo drive where they can suddenly be unavalible if the TiVo hiccups (which they do more often than they really should), whereas a computer problem is easier to diagnose, fix, and do data recovery if necessary.

Of course TiVo Desktop ain't nothing to write home about, either.


----------



## billbillw

lrhorer said:


> 500G is a little on the low side, but acceptable for many applications, and the lack of noise makes it the better choice.


Well, it is still 3 times larger than the original 160GB drive. For our bedroom unit, it is mostly for recording a few shows for the kids and my wife likes to watch her girly shows back there (housewives, Idol, dancing, etc). She also has an addiction for watching shows like Dateline and 48 Hours Mystery. Those shows are sometimes 2 hours and they can quickly build up.


----------



## gwsat

Haven't posted here in awhile so please pardon me if I sound more ignorant that usual. I have on the way a Western Digital My Book AV DVR Expander 1 TB USB 2.0/eSATA External Hard Drive. I reviewed bkdtv's FAQ and it appears that I can attach the WD drive to my S3 by simply making the eSATA connection. Does anyone have any additional advice on the subject? By the way, when the FAQ was last updated it showed that a drive such as the one I got cost $180. Now, though, Amazon has it for less than $120.


----------



## richsadams

gwsat said:


> Haven't posted here in awhile so please pardon me if I sound more ignorant that usual. I have on the way a Western Digital My Book AV DVR Expander 1 TB USB 2.0/eSATA External Hard Drive. I reviewed bkdtv's FAQ and it appears that I can attach the WD drive to my S3 by simply making the eSATA connection. Does anyone have any additional advice on the subject? By the way, when the FAQ was last updated it showed that a drive such as the one I got cost $180. Now, though, Amazon has it for less than $120.


As long as you have the original hard drive in your Series3 you should be able to connect it and be good as gold. Just be sure to follow the steps...

1. Unplug TiVo
2. Power up your new eSATA drive
3. Connect the eSATA cable to your new drive and TiVo (be sure the eSATA connections are snug at both ends)
4. Plug TiVo back in and follow the menu prompts

Prices have indeed come down since those drives were first released.

Enjoy!


----------



## gwsat

richsadams said:


> As long as you have the original hard drive in your Series3 you should be able to connect it and be good as gold. Just be sure to follow the steps...
> 
> 1. Unplug TiVo
> 2. Power up your new eSATA drive
> 3. Connect the eSATA cable to your new drive and TiVo (be sure the eSATA connections are snug at both ends)
> 4. Plug TiVo back in and follow the menu prompts
> 
> Prices have indeed come down since those drives were first released.
> 
> Enjoy!


Gotcha, thanks a million! I should receive the drive from Amazon sometime later this week and will report how installing the drive went.

PS: I see you are an old S1 guy, me, too. I bought my S1 in 2000 and didn't retire it until my cable company finally started offering an HD DVR. I replaced the cable company's DVR with my S3 shortly after TiVo introduced it.


----------



## anastrophe

just a datapoint. having done some upgrades to my PC, i had a spare Western Digital Green 640GB drive, WD6400AACS-00G8B1, manufactured in 2009. Decided to give it a whirl doing an internal drive upgrade on my TivoHD. 

No issues. After first power up boot, i did a standby/reset reboot, came up fine, no hang on welcome screen.

A nice midrange upgrade option without the idle bug - and with the added benefit of burning a few watts less than many other drives, and very quiet.

:up:


----------



## anastrophe

just wanted to add - in the section of the guide discussing the Western Digital green drives, it states:

"This issue affects all recently manufactured Western Digital EADS, EARS, and EAVS drives. It also affects EVVS drives manufactured after September 18 and EVDS drives manufactured since November. Drives built prior to these dates work perfectly fine; they do not exhibit the issue. The manufacture date is printed on the top of every drive."

this was a little confusing - as the guide at the top states that it was last updated august of 2010 - so, do 'september 18' and 'november' refer to 2009? it would be helpful to include the year referenced within the guide.

that said, i want to publicly say THANK YOU to user bkdtv for an outstanding, clearly written, very well researched guide. it's a work of art, really, and a hell of a public service.


----------



## mmoustakas

I have a Series 2 (TCD24004A) that I upgraded soon after getting it with a second hard drive (in addition to the original)...but it has been many years (obviously) and my wife thinks it is time to replace the hard drive before they fail (my father in law's series 2 original hard drive failed recently). I had been looking for big IDE drives, but reading here has convinced me that a couple SATA drives with adapters would be cheaper (and planning to move all programs etc. from the two drives to the two new drives). So I am looking at 2 1TB WD10EARS drives on amazon in addition to the SATA adapters from weaknees.
I tried to find reasons why this will or will not work, but did not find any...any suggestion? I had also considered moving all of my recordings from the tivo to another or to a PC and then going back to one drive...but that sounds more painful than it is worth...and with this plan I can have a fairly inexpensive 2 TB Series 2! 
Any advice is appreciated!
Thanks,
Matt
P.S. now I found this drive on amazon...looks like the same thing but specifically for DVRs?


----------



## ThreeSoFar

mmoustakas said:


> I have a Series 2 (TCD24004A) that I upgraded soon after getting it with a second hard drive (in addition to the original)...but it has been many years (obviously) and my wife thinks it is time to replace the hard drive before they fail (my father in law's series 2 original hard drive failed recently). I had been looking for big IDE drives, but reading here has convinced me that a couple SATA drives with adapters would be cheaper (and planning to move all programs etc. from the two drives to the two new drives). So I am looking at 2 1TB WD10EARS drives on amazon in addition to the SATA adapters from weaknees.
> I tried to find reasons why this will or will not work, but did not find any...any suggestion? I had also considered moving all of my recordings from the tivo to another or to a PC and then going back to one drive...but that sounds more painful than it is worth...and with this plan I can have a fairly inexpensive 2 TB Series 2!
> Any advice is appreciated!
> Thanks,
> Matt
> P.S. now I found this drive on amazon...looks like the same thing but specifically for DVRs?


You're wrong.

It's time to upgrade to HD is what it is.


----------



## unitron

mmoustakas said:


> I have a Series 2 (TCD24004A) that I upgraded soon after getting it with a second hard drive (in addition to the original)...but it has been many years (obviously) and my wife thinks it is time to replace the hard drive before they fail (my father in law's series 2 original hard drive failed recently). I had been looking for big IDE drives, but reading here has convinced me that a couple SATA drives with adapters would be cheaper (and planning to move all programs etc. from the two drives to the two new drives). So I am looking at 2 1TB WD10EARS drives on amazon[/URL] in addition to the SATA adapters from weaknees.
> I tried to find reasons why this will or will not work, but did not find any...any suggestion? I had also considered moving all of my recordings from the tivo to another or to a PC and then going back to one drive...but that sounds more painful than it is worth...and with this plan I can have a fairly inexpensive 2 TB Series 2!
> Any advice is appreciated!
> Thanks,
> Matt


You'll be much better off GB per dollar wise with SATA drives, even with that added cost of the adapters.

If you already have your TiVo hooked into your home network some way, you can move the recordings (copy them, actually) to another TiVo on the same account (Tivo calls it transferring, but the original is left intact) via Multi-Room Viewing, or you can use Tivo Desktop to copy them to a computer, and then copy them back onto your new bigger hard drive(s).

If you copy to another Tivo and then back to the first TiVo, you lose some of the attached information, including the time and date originally recorded. Everything will be marked as having been recorded when you transferred to the second TiVo.

If you use TiVo Desktop to copy to the computer and then back, the info on the original date and time and the other stuff remains with the recording.

It ain't fast, but it's fairly simple.

Considering the way TiVo problems tend to leave your recordings difficult if not impossible to recover, you might want to think about putting one big drive in your TiVo, and another big one in the computer (you aren't limited to 1TB drives, you could look for a deal on a 1.5 or 2TB), and backup religiously from TiVo to computer (TiVo Desktop has some autotransfer function I haven't tried yet for saving a series).


----------



## mmoustakas

I will likely get a premier when I actually get a HD TV...till then I have lifetime on my series 2 and am happy with that (I am in no hurry get HD...I still have a series 2...that should be a clue about my tendancy to upgrade!)

I have everything networked, so transferring was an option, but I am not terribly excited about the process as it will take forever to transfer all those shows to a fro via the wireless network.

So what about the specific drive I was looking at...WD10EARS...any experience with these versus the green power A/V specific drives (I think the link I posted in my P.S. above is for a WD10EURS, but it is not clear from Amazon)? And two of them in the series 2? 

Thanks!
Matt


----------



## unitron

mmoustakas said:


> I have a Series 2 (TCD24004A) that I upgraded soon after getting it with a second hard drive (in addition to the original)...but it has been many years (obviously) and my wife thinks it is time to replace the hard drive before they fail (my father in law's series 2 original hard drive failed recently). I had been looking for big IDE drives, but reading here has convinced me that a couple SATA drives with adapters would be cheaper (and planning to move all programs etc. from the two drives to the two new drives). So I am looking at 2 1TB WD10EARS drives on amazon in addition to the SATA adapters from weaknees.
> I tried to find reasons why this will or will not work, but did not find any...any suggestion? I had also considered moving all of my recordings from the tivo to another or to a PC and then going back to one drive...but that sounds more painful than it is worth...and with this plan I can have a fairly inexpensive 2 TB Series 2!
> Any advice is appreciated!
> Thanks,
> Matt
> P.S. now I found this drive on amazon...looks like the same thing but specifically for DVRs?


Since Amazon didn't see fit to actually list a model number, who knows what you'd get.


----------



## Stuxnet

Since the 2TB on that link is a WD20EVDS, the 1TB is possibly a WD10EVDS. I think that's an old link... Here's another that has the same product code.


----------



## unitron

Stuxnet said:


> Since the 2TB on that link is a WD20EVDS, the 1TB is possibly a WD10EVDS. I think that's an old link... Here's another that has the same product code.


I still ain't seein' a model number (which means if you order 2 and don't get 2 of the same drive you can't complain), but what I am seeing is something about Intellipark.

Search this thread for more about the dangers of Intellipark.


----------



## Stuxnet

Page down to "product details"... you'll see this...

Product Details
Capacity: 1 TB
Product Dimensions: 5.8 x 4 x 1 inches ; 1.4 pounds
Shipping Weight: 1.6 pounds (View shipping rates and policies)
Shipping: Currently, item can be shipped only within the U.S.
ASIN: B002P3KO74
Item model number: WD10EVDS

Same price at NewEgg...


----------



## richsadams

gwsat said:


> PS: I see you are an old S1 guy, me, too. I bought my S1 in 2000 and didn't retire it until my cable company finally started offering an HD DVR. I replaced the cable company's DVR with my S3 shortly after TiVo introduced it.


I fired up our Series1 a little while back...still rock solid! For my money the Series3 is still a TiVo pinnacle.


----------



## richsadams

anastrophe said:


> ...so, do 'september 18' and 'november' refer to 2009?


Yes. I'll drop another note to bkdtv.


----------



## richsadams

mmoustakas said:


> So what about the specific drive I was looking at...WD10EARS...any experience with these versus the green power A/V specific drives (I think the link I posted in my P.S. above is for a WD10EURS, but it is not clear from Amazon)? And two of them in the series 2?
> 
> Thanks!
> Matt


For TiVo the WD10EARS will perform the same as the WD10EURS (or any other A/V dedicated drive) except for acoustics. The AAM of WD10EARS is set to 254 and WD's A/V dedicated drives are set to a quieter 128. You can use HDDSCAN to set the AAM of the WD10EARS to 128. The procedure is simple and outlined in the FAQ.


----------



## mmoustakas

Sounds like I will get the 2 1T WD10EARS and the adapters and hope to breath new life into my Series 2!
Thanks for the input!!!


----------



## richsadams

mmoustakas said:


> Sounds like I will get the 2 1T WD10EARS and the adapters and hope to breath new life into my Series 2!
> Thanks for the input!!!


Happy upgrading!


----------



## tronchaser2u2

vstone said:


> Endless loop


This might not be the right place to ask this, but I don't have hours to research the appropriate forum to ask this question...

I have my Tivo Series 3 open with the HD sitting in front of me, I also have a 1 TB drive to use as an upgrade. So i go to Mfslive.org to download the latest version of MFSlive and wouldn't you know it, the site is not working. Everytime i try to register i get:

SQL ERROR [ mysqli ]

Access denied for user 'mfsliveo'@'localhost' (using password: YES) [1045]

An sql error occurred while fetching this page. Please contact an administrator if this problem persists.

So I can't download the zip file. I a asking if someone out there has a copy of Winmfs that i can get. otherwise my effort is in vain and i will have to put the unit back together until the site is back up. I can't find a 2nd site that has the file..

Someone please help if you can...

Thanks,


----------



## unitron

tronchaser2u2 said:


> This might not be the right place to ask this, but I don't have hours to research the appropriate forum to ask this question...
> 
> I have my Tivo Series 3 open with the HD sitting in front of me, I also have a 1 TB drive to use as an upgrade. So i go to Mfslive.org to download the latest version of MFSlive and wouldn't you know it, the site is not working. Everytime i try to register i get:
> 
> SQL ERROR [ mysqli ]
> 
> Access denied for user 'mfsliveo'@'localhost' (using password: YES) [1045]
> 
> An sql error occurred while fetching this page. Please contact an administrator if this problem persists.
> 
> So I can't download the zip file. I a asking if someone out there has a copy of Winmfs that i can get. otherwise my effort is in vain and i will have to put the unit back together until the site is back up. I can't find a 2nd site that has the file..
> 
> Someone please help if you can...
> 
> Thanks,


I'm already registered, downloaded it sometime back, and just now I got the same error message when I tried to see if I could get through, so it's probably just a temporary problem with the site itself.

Do you have a place to which I could upload it?


----------



## ThreeSoFar

unitron said:


> I'm already registered, downloaded it sometime back, and just now I got the same error message when I tried to see if I could get through, so it's probably just a temporary problem with the site itself.
> 
> Do you have a place to which I could upload it?


There are free upload places.....I've used megaupload.com before.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

ThreeSoFar said:


> There are free upload places.....I've used megaupload.com before.


I'll clarify.

Go ahead and upload what you need. YOu'll get a URL to give whomever you want to download it. The free version has a small delay built-in. And a limited number of downloads. But it works great.

ETA: Share the URL with them via PM, so somehow the limited number of downloads don't get burned by lookie-loos.


----------



## unitron

ThreeSoFar said:


> I'll clarify.
> 
> Go ahead and upload what you need. YOu'll get a URL to give whomever you want to download it. The free version has a small delay built-in. And a limited number of downloads. But it works great.
> 
> ETA: Share the URL with them via PM, so somehow the limited number of downloads don't get burned by lookie-loos.


I have it, they need it, I'll let them do as much as possible to make it easy for me to do as little as possible unless it turns out to be beyond their level of expertise, at which point I'd be willing to spend my time to help them.

They don't seem to need it badly enough to have replied yet.


----------



## MPSAN

unitron said:


> I have it, they need it, I'll let them do as much as possible to make it easy for me to do as little as possible unless it turns out to be beyond their level of expertise, at which point I'd be willing to spend my time to help them.
> 
> They don't seem to need it badly enough to have replied yet.


With his 1 post is his PM active yet?


----------



## richsadams

tronchaser2u2 said:


> This might not be the right place to ask this, but I don't have hours to research the appropriate forum to ask this question...
> <snip>


Welcome to the forum. The MFSLive.org seems to be working now, but I went ahead and sent you a link to WinMFS via PM.


----------



## gwsat

As noted in an earlier post, I just got the WD 1TB eSATA drive that is designed to work with TiVo DVRs. The drive came Monday and thanks to richsadams explicit instructions, I had the new drive setup and running on my S3 in less than half an hour. The only glitch was the S3's failure to find the external drive when I first booted it after installing the drive. The S3 came up perfectly the second time, though. All of the connections had been tight and I did the installation just as Rich had recommended so I can't explain why the drive didn't show up after the first reboot. The installation was still fast and easy, even with the glitch, and I now have 1.25TB of disc storage.

I highly recommend the WD 1TB eSATA drive. _*I got mine from Amazon for less than $120.00.*_ It appears to be well made, the eSATA cable connectors fit both my S3 and the drive itself snugly, and the drive is as silent as a stone.


----------



## richsadams

gwsat said:


> As noted in an earlier post, I just got the WD 1TB eSATA drive that is designed to work with TiVo DVRs.


Nice! :up: Enjoy all of that new "real estate".


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Still can't condone the eSata option. 5x or so likelihood of failing than just your single drive, and upgrading the single drive is trivial.


----------



## MikeAndrews

netringer said:


> ...I'm thinking of taking a chance on a Seagate ST32000542AS for $79.99 before the 10% discount to replace the WD in my Premiere, as well as chance on the the apes at NewEgg warehouse throwing my drive into a box. I have one that works.
> 
> Is that a bad idea?
> ...


Yes it was. When will I learn? It was packed OK, but I just tried the Seagate drive and it's a DOA clicking toy. So once again I get to RMA, pack, ship and pay $10+ to send it back and wait. So much for my bargain. Never again. It doesn't help to cushion it well if they play hockey with it first.

Another WD20EARS from Amazon works fine. (Note in my sig incrementing 2TB drives in my NAS by one.)

Don't buy drives from NewEgg!

I'm going the RMA the WD drive from the Premeire to Western Digital.


----------



## richsadams

netringer said:


> Yes it was. When will I learn? It was packed OK, but I just tried the Seagate drive and it's a DOA clicking toy. So once again I get to RMA, pack, ship and pay $10+ to send it back and wait. So much for my bargain. Never again. It doesn't help to cushion it well if they play hockey with it first.
> 
> Another WD20EARS from Amazon works fine. (Note in my sig incrementing 2TB drives in my NAS by one.)
> 
> Don't buy drives from NewEgg!
> 
> I'm going the RMA the WD drive from the Premeire to Western Digital.


After suffering through similar experiences I only buy products that aren't prone to problems...pillows for instance...from Newegg. Amazon's 30 day no questions asked, free return shipping policy is hard to beat.

Sorry to hear about your Seagate experience. Seagate used to have one of the best reps in the business for years. I never had any problems with them. I still have a 500GB Seagate DB35 drive that's over four years old happily humming along. But of the four Seagate drives I've purchased in the last couple of years, three failed (one was DOA like yours). It may be a coincidence but it seems like Seagate's QC plummeted after they purchased Maxtor...or maybe it's not coincidental. In any case, glad to hear your WD drive is getting the job done.


----------



## unitron

richsadams said:


> After suffering through similar experiences I only buy products that aren't prone to problems...pillows for instance...from Newegg. Amazon's 30 day no questions asked, free return shipping policy is hard to beat.
> 
> Sorry to hear about your Seagate experience. Seagate used to have one of the best reps in the business for years. I never had any problems with them. I still have a 500GB Seagate DB35 drive that's over four years old happily humming along. But of the four Seagate drives I've purchased in the last couple of years, three failed (one was DOA like yours). It may be a coincidence but it seems like Seagate's QC plummeted after they purchased Maxtor...or maybe it's not coincidental. In any case, glad to hear your WD drive is getting the job done.


I've been somewhat leery of Seagate ever since they began re-badging Conner drives. I looked on it as more of an infection than an acquisition.

I get the feeling that swallowing Quantum may have done the same to Maxtor, which means Seagate is now doubly poisoned.

Will we see the same happen to WD with their purchase of Hitachi GST (who sort of used to be IBM's "DeathStar" line)?


----------



## richsadams

unitron said:


> Will we see the same happen to WD with their purchase of Hitachi GST (who sort of used to be IBM's "DeathStar" line)?


That would be sad indeed...the choices are dwindling. FWIW when Seagate was at the top of their game, WD's QC was near the bottom of the pile...now they are near or at the top. How times change.


----------



## lrhorer

richsadams said:


> After suffering through similar experiences I only buy products that aren't prone to problems...pillows for instance...from Newegg.


I've bought dozens of items, including more than 50 hard drives, from NewEgg. I had one open box motherboard and one OEM hard drive come DOA, plus one RAID controller that failed after a few days. I had to pay shipping for the returns, of course, but the end result was still less expensive than most competing vendors. I'm certainly not unhappy.



richsadams said:


> Amazon's 30 day no questions asked, free return shipping policy is hard to beat.


I've had problems with Amazon once or twice, too, although I have never purchased a hard drive from them. No one is perfect, and I am not saying Amazon is inferior - not by a long shot, one always takes a risk at some level when making a purchase. I woud have to say overall I am quite pleased with both NewEgg and Amazon. There are other vendors of whom I cannot say the same, to put it mildly.



richsadams said:


> Sorry to hear about your Seagate experience. Seagate used to have one of the best reps in the business for years. I never had any problems with them. I still have a 500GB Seagate DB35 drive that's over four years old happily humming along. But of the four Seagate drives I've purchased in the last couple of years, three failed (one was DOA like yours). It may be a coincidence but it seems like Seagate's QC plummeted after they purchased Maxtor...or maybe it's not coincidental. In any case, glad to hear your WD drive is getting the job done.


Yeah, the one DOA I had from NewEgg was a Seagate, and I recently had four Seagate drives - all two years old - start having trouble simultaneously. They were the only four drives having problems in a twelve drive RAID array. I have several 1G Hitachi DeskStar drives that have great performance, but man do they use a lot of power and run awfully hot. I have to say I really like the WD "green" drives. If top performance is not a big issue, they really seem to be reliable and power stingy. Tuesday evening I just picked up another pair of WD EARS drives (1T and 2T, respectively) at Best Buy to upgrade a pair of my Tivos. I expanded the #2 and #5 partitions to 256M and copied all the data over from smaller drives, using MFSADD to expand the MFS partitions, allowing for insitu scripted upgrades to the TiVos.


----------



## ccrider2

netringer said:


> Yes it was. When will I learn? It was packed OK, but I just tried the Seagate drive and it's a DOA clicking toy. So once again I get to RMA, pack, ship and pay $10+ to send it back and wait. So much for my bargain. Never again. It doesn't help to cushion it well if they play hockey with it first.
> 
> Another WD20EARS from Amazon works fine. (Note in my sig incrementing 2TB drives in my NAS by one.)
> 
> Don't buy drives from NewEgg!
> 
> I'm going the RMA the WD drive from the Premeire to Western Digital.


If it was DOA.... email them and ask to have that $10 credited to your card. Somewhere on their site they say a DOA item has no return shipping. They will charge you when applying for the RMA, but just ask them later and they will credit you. Done it twice myself.


----------



## mmoustakas

richsadams said:


> For TiVo the WD10EARS will perform the same as the WD10EURS (or any other A/V dedicated drive) except for acoustics. The AAM of WD10EARS is set to 254 and WD's A/V dedicated drives are set to a quieter 128. You can use HDDSCAN to set the AAM of the WD10EARS to 128. The procedure is simple and outlined in the FAQ.


ARRRRGH...so I have the WD10EARS and SATA adapters, used HDDSCAN to set AAM to 128...and figured out how to get the two original hard drives and the two new WD10EARS drives attached to my computer (had to use a USB adapter to turn my CD-ROM drive into an external to boot mfstools), the drives are recognized as the correct size...I start the mfsbackup command (mfsbackup -Tao - /dev/hda /dev/hdb | mfsrestore -s 127 -r 4 -xzpi - /dev/hdc /dev/hdd) which starts to check the drives...but then says there is not enough space on the target drive....DOH!
So would taking some programs off help, or it is just not possible since I have already expanded from one disk to two originally.
Help!
Matt


----------



## ThreeSoFar

mmoustakas said:


> ARRRRGH...[snip]....DOH!
> 
> So would taking some programs off help, or it is just not possible since I have already expanded from one disk to two originally.
> Help!
> Matt


No, that wouldn't help.

I think trying to MacGyver SATA drives into a 10 year old (says so here) system (a computer, basically) is a silly exercise. Especially when a 300GB brand new lifetimed premiere should cost you $470 (via their upgrade offer), only a few hundred more than your two drive MacGyver solution. Add $50-80 more, and you can nearly instantly get a single internal drive solution of 150 or 300 hours of HD.

I understand you're not on HD systems yet. If you're seriously considering never going to HD, probably the 300GB stock drive is more than sufficient.

I was right the first time---Premiere is your best solution. You're wife is right to suspect the old hardware---but it's not just the drives that are old.

You may even have $50-100 resale value in the Series 2 if it is still lifetimed, perhaps double that if you do replace the internal drive with a good sized IDE.


----------



## unitron

mmoustakas said:


> ARRRRGH...so I have the WD10EARS and SATA adapters, used HDDSCAN to set AAM to 128...and figured out how to get the two original hard drives and the two new WD10EARS drives attached to my computer (had to use a USB adapter to turn my CD-ROM drive into an external to boot mfstools), the drives are recognized as the correct size...I start the mfsbackup command (mfsbackup -Tao - /dev/hda /dev/hdb | mfsrestore -s 127 -r 4 -xzpi - /dev/hdc /dev/hdd) which starts to check the drives...but then says there is not enough space on the target drive....DOH!
> So would taking some programs off help, or it is just not possible since I have already expanded from one disk to two originally.
> Help!
> Matt


It would be best to "transfer" (they mean copy) all of your recorded shows via TiVo Desktop to a big enough space on your computer and then do a truncated backup from both drives to one of the new drives, and then add the second new drive and expand.

You're correct, the transfer does take a long time.

Alternatively, you can do what you did before, booting from the MFS Live CD v1.4, but make the -s 250 or 500, leave out the -r (let it do whatever the default is) leave the -x out of it, skip the -z as well.

Then after that succeeds, you can run mfsadd to do what the -x would have done if it had worked.

Then you can use pdisk -l /dev/hdc /dev/hdd to see if you used all of the space on /dev/hdc or if it just duplicated the partitions from /dev/hda at the same size.

Report back.


----------



## unitron

mmoustakas said:


> ARRRRGH...so I have the WD10EARS and SATA adapters, used HDDSCAN to set AAM to 128...and figured out how to get the two original hard drives and the two new WD10EARS drives attached to my computer (had to use a USB adapter to turn my CD-ROM drive into an external to boot mfstools), the drives are recognized as the correct size...I start the mfsbackup command (mfsbackup -Tao - /dev/hda /dev/hdb | mfsrestore -s 127 -r 4 -xzpi - /dev/hdc /dev/hdd) which starts to check the drives...but then says there is not enough space on the target drive....DOH!
> So would taking some programs off help, or it is just not possible since I have already expanded from one disk to two originally.
> Help!
> Matt


And another thing.

Go to the

"List of SATA to PATA (IDE) adapters, please add yours "

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=416883

and tell us which TiVo , which drive(s), and which adapter(s), and whether and how well it worked.

And don't let anyone talk you into a Series 3 or 4 until you read up in the other threads here about the problems people have had, and then make an fully-informed decision.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

unitron said:


> [snip]...
> And don't let anyone talk you into a Series 3 or 4 until you read up in the other threads here about the problems people have had, and then make an fully-informed decision.


Agreed, don't do it in ignorance.

However, be sure to take note of all those that have Premieres running fine that are very happy with them (most of whom are using the SDUI not the HDUI). (ETA: we have 2 and sold the third wootbox we got for $550.)

My point is that if you're spending $150 or more to do this upgrade, that adding a few hundred on top of that for the latest technology is a very valid choice, for a 5x jump in CPU speed and potential for more (once the 2nd CPU is enabled). And if you sell the Series 2 with lifetime for $100 or so, even less.

It's also worth pointing out that, despite doing so very slowly over time, TiVo does fix their software issues. There's very little chance that the Premiere HARDWARE is at fault for the current issues. Give it time.


----------



## mmoustakas

unitron said:


> It would be best to "transfer" (they mean copy) all of your recorded shows via TiVo Desktop to a big enough space on your computer and then do a truncated backup from both drives to one of the new drives, and then add the second new drive and expand.
> 
> You're correct, the transfer does take a long time.
> 
> Alternatively, you can do what you did before, booting from the MFS Live CD v1.4, but make the -s 250 or 500, leave out the -r (let it do whatever the default is) leave the -x out of it, skip the -z as well.
> 
> Then after that succeeds, you can run mfsadd to do what the -x would have done if it had worked.
> 
> Then you can use pdisk -l /dev/hdc /dev/hdd to see if you used all of the space on /dev/hdc or if it just duplicated the partitions from /dev/hda at the same size.
> 
> Report back.


Well it looks like I was using an old mfs disk I had from the original upgrade instead of the weaknees large disk support one (duh), but then my setup using the usb adapter for the CD Rom would not work with either the weaknees or winmfs boot disks (they boot, but then go looking for the cd-rom and cannot find it during the rest of the linux startup evidently). So I rearranged things so that just the old A drive, new A drive and CD-Rom are connect, and am using the weaknees disk to DD copy A to new A...and hopefully do the same with the B. Waiting now...since there is no progress bar...just flashing HHD lights.

If this works, it will be way cheaper than a new tivo, with more space than a new one. I will likely get a new one once we get a HD TV, but I will still want to have this tivo on another TV...

I will put the adapter drive info in the correct thread when/if I actually get it working.


----------



## richsadams

unitron said:


> And don't let anyone talk you into a Series 3 or 4 until you read up in the other threads here about the problems people have had, and then make an fully-informed decision.


FWIW I still like our Series3 over our Premiere XL. Never a problem...always rock solid. Since we're still using the SDUI on the Premiere there's very little difference between the two (except for the additional 1TB of recording space  ) the way we use it. YMMV of course.


----------



## unitron

mmoustakas said:


> Well it looks like I was using an old mfs disk I had from the original upgrade instead of the weaknees large disk support one (duh), but then my setup using the usb adapter for the CD Rom would not work with either the weaknees or winmfs boot disks (they boot, but then go looking for the cd-rom and cannot find it during the rest of the linux startup evidently). So I rearranged things so that just the old A drive, new A drive and CD-Rom are connect, and am using the weaknees disk to DD copy A to new A...and hopefully do the same with the B. Waiting now...since there is no progress bar...just flashing HHD lights.
> 
> If this works, it will be way cheaper than a new tivo, with more space than a new one. I will likely get a new one once we get a HD TV, but I will still want to have this tivo on another TV...
> 
> I will put the adapter drive info in the correct thread when/if I actually get it working.


dd will make your new drive think that it's the same size as the old one, because it copies the very first part of the drive where that info is stored.

I don't think that's what you had in mind.

Is that Weaknees cd the one with copykern on it? If so, don't use it for anything else. Use the MFS Live cd v1.4 from mfslive.org It should be happy as /dev/sda

When you do use the other cd for copykern, boot from it, do ls -l (those are lowercase L's) to see what directories it creates in memory when it boots, there should be a /cdrom one, then mount the cd before you run copykern.

mount -t iso9660 /dev/sda /cdrom

That way copykern will actually run instead of just appearing to.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

richsadams said:


> FWIW I still like our Series3 over our Premiere XL. Never a problem...always rock solid. Since we're still using the SDUI on the Premiere there's very little difference between the two (except for the additional 1TB of recording space  ) the way we use it. YMMV of course.


Understood, and I agree.

When I got our two new Premieres, I chose to sell one of our other four units, two each S3 and HDTiVos, all lifetimed. I sold one of the (1TB upgraded) HD units rather than the (older upgraded) S3 units.

But this guy's got a Series 2. Practically a relic.

Sure, if he can get a lifetimed S3 or HD, he may be better off than the $470 lifetimed S4/Premiere. However: The S3 will require two CableCARDs, not just one. And he'll miss out on the faster (and someday the extra) processor.


----------



## richsadams

ThreeSoFar said:


> But this guy's got a Series 2. Practically a relic.


Agreed...a LT S3 would be a good investment.

I'm in a real quandry with respect to that myself. I only bought a one-year sub for our Premiere XL last year (TiVo had a pretty good upgrade offer at the time) and it's about to expire. I was going to go for a LT sub, but now I'm really hesitant and might just go with another one-year. What would you do?


----------



## ThreeSoFar

richsadams said:


> Agreed...a LT S3 would be a good investment.
> 
> I'm in a real quandry with respect to that myself. I only bought a one-year sub for our Premiere XL last year (TiVo had a pretty good upgrade offer at the time) and it's about to expire. I was going to go for a LT sub, but now I'm really hesitant and might just go with another one-year. What would you do?


Isn't it obvious? I would have lifetimed it when I first got it! (and I did, all three of my wooTiVos).

How much would they charge you now for lifetime? If you can do it for $199, jump on it. At $299, I think it's still worth it. And yeah, you'll just eat the 1Y sub you already paid for--but that's your own damn fault.


----------



## mmoustakas

unitron said:


> dd will make your new drive think that it's the same size as the old one, because it copies the very first part of the drive where that info is stored.
> 
> I don't think that's what you had in mind.
> 
> Is that Weaknees cd the one with copykern on it? If so, don't use it for anything else. Use the MFS Live cd v1.4 from mfslive.org It should be happy as /dev/sda
> 
> When you do use the other cd for copykern, boot from it, do ls -l (those are lowercase L's) to see what directories it creates in memory when it boots, there should be a /cdrom one, then mount the cd before you run copykern.
> 
> mount -t iso9660 /dev/sda /cdrom
> 
> That way copykern will actually run instead of just appearing to.


Uhhhhh, okay...you are losing me now. I was planning to do dd to both drives...painful as it is to wait without any progress indicator, and then expand them with mfsadd -r 4 -x /dev/hdc /dev/hdb.

But you are saying I should boot with the mfslive cd, then use the mount command to get the usb cdrom working...then...then I am not sure?

Thanks!
Matt


----------



## unitron

mmoustakas said:


> Uhhhhh, okay...you are losing me now. I was planning to do dd to both drives...painful as it is to wait without any progress indicator, and then expand them with mfsadd -r 4 -x /dev/hdc /dev/hdb.
> 
> But you are saying I should boot with the mfslive cd, then use the mount command to get the usb cdrom working...then...then I am not sure?
> 
> Thanks!
> Matt


If you want a progress indicator you should use dd_rescue instead of dd, but that won't solve the problem caused by using dd, because it will do the same thing.

dd will do a bit-for-bit copy of the small drive onto the large drive until it has copied over all of the small drive, then return an End Of File message.

That will leave you with a large drive only partially filled that will report itself as a small drive because it's got the small drive's partition and boot records.

If you try to expand it with mfsadd it will report that it doesn't have room for any more partitions.

I'll be back with more in a little while.


----------



## Stuxnet

mmoustakas said:


> Uhhhhh, okay...you are losing me now. I was planning to do dd to both drives...painful as it is to wait without any progress indicator, and then expand them with mfsadd -r 4 -x /dev/hdc /dev/hdb.
> 
> But you are saying I should boot with the mfslive cd, then use the mount command to get the usb cdrom working...then...then I am not sure?


FWIW, if you can open a second command shell, you can get info on "dd" progress with this command:


Code:


killall -s USR1 dd

It will give you a transfer rate, and total transfer count. I use this frequently when scrubbing a hdd...


----------



## unitron

mmoustakas said:


> Uhhhhh, okay...you are losing me now. I was planning to do dd to both drives...painful as it is to wait without any progress indicator, and then expand them with mfsadd -r 4 -x /dev/hdc /dev/hdb.
> 
> But you are saying I should boot with the mfslive cd, then use the mount command to get the usb cdrom working...then...then I am not sure?
> 
> Thanks!
> Matt


Are you using the same computer to do the TiVo drive wrangling that you use to read and post here, or are they two separate machines?

The computer you are using to drive wrangle, how many IDE devices can you hook up to it? You get 2 devices for each IDE 40 pin header on the motherboard.

How many SATA devices can you hook to it?

Before you started hooking TiVo drives to it, did it already have a hard drive running an operating system installed? Is it IDE or SATA? How big? How much free space left?

The 2 drives you've been using in the TiVo, how big is each one?

You're replacing them with 2 1TB drives, correct?


----------



## ThAbtO

unitron said:


> Are you using the same computer to do the TiVo drive wrangling that you use to read and post here, or are they two separate machines?
> 
> The computer you are using to drive wrangle, how many IDE devices can you hook up to it? You get 2 devices for each IDE 40 pin header on the motherboard.


This is starting to sound like a rodeo. 

How many TiVo's can you round up in eight seconds?


----------



## unitron

Stuxnet said:


> FWIW, if you can open a second command shell, you can get info on "dd" progress with this command:
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> killall -s USR1 dd
> 
> It will give you a transfer rate, and total transfer count. I use this frequently when scrubbing a hdd...


I suspect that his Linux ability is lot more like mine than yours, i.e., rather limited. That, and its ability to work around errors, is why I suggested dd_rescue (and why I should have remembered to suggest the use of the verbose option -v).

I don't think there's much point in his continuing to let dd run, because I don't think he's going to get the results he wants.


----------



## richsadams

ThreeSoFar said:


> Isn't it obvious? I would have lifetimed it when I first got it! (and I did, all three of my wooTiVos).
> 
> How much would they charge you now for lifetime? If you can do it for $199, jump on it. At $299, I think it's still worth it. And yeah, you'll just eat the 1Y sub you already paid for--but that's your own damn fault.


IIRC LT was $399 at the time and I just balked at it. Probably should have gone with it anyway. Now that I look at the account I've been paying $6.99/mo. this past year plus I received $200 off of the purchase price for pre-ordering so it wast that bad. They don't list my renewal options on line so I'll have to call. They offer LT on the Series3 for $399. Perhaps I can talk them into $199 for the Premiere, we'll see.

EDIT: I forgot that I received a $60 rebate from FatWallet at the time as well. I feel sooooo much better now.


----------



## mmoustakas

unitron said:


> dd will make your new drive think that it's the same size as the old one, because it copies the very first part of the drive where that info is stored.
> 
> I don't think that's what you had in mind.
> 
> Is that Weaknees cd the one with copykern on it? If so, don't use it for anything else. Use the MFS Live cd v1.4 from mfslive.org It should be happy as /dev/sda
> 
> When you do use the other cd for copykern, boot from it, do ls -l (those are lowercase L's) to see what directories it creates in memory when it boots, there should be a /cdrom one, then mount the cd before you run copykern.
> 
> mount -t iso9660 /dev/sda /cdrom
> 
> That way copykern will actually run instead of just appearing to.





unitron said:


> Are you using the same computer to do the TiVo drive wrangling that you use to read and post here, or are they two separate machines?
> 
> The computer you are using to drive wrangle, how many IDE devices can you hook up to it? You get 2 devices for each IDE 40 pin header on the motherboard.
> 
> How many SATA devices can you hook to it?
> 
> Before you started hooking TiVo drives to it, did it already have a hard drive running an operating system installed? Is it IDE or SATA? How big? How much free space left?
> 
> The 2 drives you've been using in the TiVo, how big is each one?
> 
> You're replacing them with 2 1TB drives, correct?


GIDDYUP! ahem...I am using a different computer for posting. The wrangling computer can handle four IDE devices (and no Sata...the computer is old as well, I am using SATA adapters on the two new drives), which is why I was trying to get the CDROM on the usb adapter for #5 (two original drives and two new).

The old drives are the original 40 Gb A drive and the added 120 gb drive. My only hope at this point that dd might work is that I may not have expanded the drives back when I upgraded and married the second...but I don't remember any more.

If dd does not work or I give up on it, I was thinking of having the two original drives, one new drive, and the cd-rom on the IDEs...and then having the second new drive on the usb adapter and seeing if I can get the live winmfs to work with that.


----------



## unitron

mmoustakas said:


> GIDDYUP! ahem...I am using a different computer for posting. The wrangling computer can handle four IDE devices (and no Sata...the computer is old as well, I am using SATA adapters on the two new drives), which is why I was trying to get the CDROM on the usb adapter for #5 (two original drives and two new).
> 
> The old drives are the original 40 Gb A drive and the added 120 gb drive. My only hope at this point that dd might work is that I may not have expanded the drives back when I upgraded and married the second...but I don't remember any more.
> 
> If dd does not work or I give up on it, I was thinking of having the two original drives, one new drive, and the cd-rom on the IDEs...and then having the second new drive on the usb adapter and seeing if I can get the live winmfs to work with that.


WinMFS is the one that runs as a program inside of Windows, which means you have to boot Windows to run it, which means one of your IDE or SATA "places" is taken up with the hard drive from which you boot Windows.

The MFS Live cd boots into a Linux command line environment.

It has dd_rescue, pdisk, backup, restore, mfsinfo, mfsadd, and some other helpful stuff, like hdparm.

It doesn't (as far as I know) have copykern.

Hook up the 40 as hda and the 120 as hdb

Boot from the MFS Live cd, which by now you should have downloaded from mfslive.org and burned a copy of, because it's handy to have around.

pdisk -l /dev/hda

read the results

then

pdisk -l /dev/hdb

and see if you've expanded that drive fully, which I strongly suspect you have.

Then

mfsinfo /dev/hda /dev/hdb

should tell you how much expanding you can still do.

If you only have one or two pair of MFS partitions on the 40, you might be able to expand its 1TB replacement.

Going back and re-reading some old how-to's, perhaps mfsadd will be able to take the 1TB drive with the dd of the 40GB's image and rewrite the size and partition information as well as expand it.

If so, then perhaps you'll be able to dd (although I still prefer dd_rescue with the -v option--that's v for verbose--) the 120 to the second 1Tb drive and use mfsadd to expand and to correct the first part of the drive.

Or you may have to dd the second old drive to the second new drive and run mfsadd on the pair of them simultaneously since the two images are linked.

I'm afraid I don't have enough spare drives and stuff to run the experiment myself just now.


----------



## mmoustakas

WinMFS is the one that runs as a program inside of Windows, which means you have to boot Windows to run it, which means one of your IDE or SATA "places" is taken up with the hard drive from which you boot Windows.

The MFS Live cd boots into a Linux command line environment.

It has dd_rescue, pdisk, backup, restore, mfsinfo, mfsadd, and some other helpful stuff, like hdparm.

It doesn't (as far as I know) have copykern.

Hook up the 40 as hda and the 120 as hdb

Boot from the MFS Live cd, which by now you should have downloaded from mfslive.org and burned a copy of, because it's handy to have around.

pdisk -l /dev/hda

read the results

then

pdisk -l /dev/hdb

and see if you've expanded that drive fully, which I strongly suspect you have.

Then

mfsinfo /dev/hda /dev/hdb

should tell you how much expanding you can still do.

If you only have one or two pair of MFS partitions on the 40, you might be able to expand its 1TB replacement.

Going back and re-reading some old how-to's, perhaps mfsadd will be able to take the 1TB drive with the dd of the 40GB's image and rewrite the size and partition information as well as expand it.

If so, then perhaps you'll be able to dd (although I still prefer dd_rescue with the -v option--that's v for verbose--) the 120 to the second 1Tb drive and use mfsadd to expand and to correct the first part of the drive.

Or you may have to dd the second old drive to the second new drive and run mfsadd on the pair of them simultaneously since the two images are linked.

I'm afraid I don't have enough spare drives and stuff to run the experiment myself just now.[/QUOTE]

Okay...so the dd copy and mfsadd thing did not work...but I finally figured out what you were originally suggesting as far as using the livemfs cd and using the usb adapter to connect the fifth thing I needed...(two original drives, two new drives, plus cd rom to boot from). I did "backup -qTao - /dev/hda /dev/sda | restore -s 128 -xzi - /dev/hdc /dev/hdd"...and I got a few I/O errors early on, but it finished and seemed happy...

...but now that I am trying to boot the tivo, it was sitting on the "a few minutes more" then I tried some kickstart codes...and I got a external drive disconnected error a few times...and then I got a GSOD loop for a while...then stuck on GSOD and the SATA adapter HHD activity lights are not doing anything.

Any suggestions?

Thanks...


----------



## unitron

mmoustakas said:


> Okay...so the dd copy and mfsadd thing did not work...but I finally figured out what you were originally suggesting as far as using the livemfs cd and using the usb adapter to connect the fifth thing I needed...(two original drives, two new drives, plus cd rom to boot from). I did "backup -qTao - /dev/hda /dev/sda | restore -s 128 -xzi - /dev/hdc /dev/hdd"...and I got a few I/O errors early on, but it finished and seemed happy...
> 
> ...but now that I am trying to boot the tivo, it was sitting on the "a few minutes more" then I tried some kickstart codes...and I got a external drive disconnected error a few times...and then I got a GSOD loop for a while...then stuck on GSOD and the SATA adapter HHD activity lights are not doing anything.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> Thanks...


Never use the -q option, it only hides information from you.

You need to run

mfsinfo /dev/hdc /dev/hdd to see if the combination of the two new drives is recognized as a valid TiVo "set".

(I'm assuming that your new first drive is connected as master on your second IDE channel and the new second drive is connected as slave on that same channel. This seems to be the way that you originally had them, as hdc and hdd.)

That missing external drive message is one you shouldn't be seeing on a Series 2 (they didn't offer that option 'til the Series 3), but I saw it once on mine, so it's buried in the software somewhere.

I suspect it got triggered by something not right with the second drive or something not right with the way the first drive looks for it.

Try this. Read all the way to the end first. Then read it again. Then start moving hardware around.

Hook up just the cd drive via the USB adapter, and make sure you can set the BIOS to boot from it first, with the MFS Live cd v1.4 in it.

Shut down with

poweroff

Then hook up the 40 as primary master (it'll be detected as /dev/hda) and the 120 as primary slave (/dev/hdb). Double check the jumper settings on the drive.

Hook up the new drives and adapters as secondary master and slave.

If they're identical except for serial number, it doesn't matter which is which yet, 'cause you'll overwrite everything on both.

(Do something to make it easy to tell which is which. like a piece of masking tape or a patch of white-out or liquid paper where it'll be easy to remove if ever necessary and use a magic marker/sharpie to mark the master as "A" and the slave as "B". That's TiVo A and B, not Linux hda and hdb.)

Check the jumpers on your adapters (you never said which ones you got). Even if they have a cable select, go ahead and set one for master and the other for slave. If you're using an 80-conductor 40 pin IDE cable, put the master on the end (black plug) and the slave on the middle (grey plug), and the blue or green or day-glo orange or whatever plug goes to the motherboard.

Boot with the MFS Live cd v1.4.

It'll offer you 4 choices. For a Series 2 you can just hit ENTER to choose the default.

Use SHIFT+PAGE UP to scroll back up through all that stuff that flew by as it booted.

(and SHIFT+PAGE DOWN to go the other way)

You should find a section where the 40 is identified as hda, the 120 as hdb, and the two 1TB drives as hdc and hdd.

If it gives the serial numbers for the drives, make sure the 1TB you have set as secondary master is recognized as hdc and the other as hdd.

If it doesn't do serial numbers

hdparm -i /dev/hdc

should show you the serial number, if not try again with an uppercase i

hdparm -I /dev/hdc

If the right drive is in the right place, proceed.

(do not use hdparm for anything else or with any other "-letterORnumber" options, although sometime when you have NO hard drives attached you can do hdparm -h to see all the scary things it can do with the other options)

To make sure that your original Tivo "set" is still OK

mfsinfo /dev/hda /dev/hdb

Should show a bunch of stuff and end with something about being able to expand ? more times, where ? will be a single number.

Now

backup -Tao - /dev/hda /dev/hdb | restore -s 500 -pi - /dev/hdc /dev/hdd

That's right, leave out the -q, leave out the -r and the number that went with it, leave out the -x, and leave out the -z.

If that works, when it finally finishes,

pdisk -l /dev/hdc

(that's a lowercase 'L' following the hyphen)

Should show some partions.

Then

pdisk -l /dev/hdd

Should also show some partions, but not as many.

then

mfsinfo /dev/hdc /dev/hdd

should give you an error message about missing header or something.

That's OK.

Type

reboot

and hit ENTER

it'll reboot. (hit enter for the default boot choice again)

Do

mfsinfo /dev/hdc /dev/hdd

again.

You should get something like you got for

mfsinfo /dev/hda /dev/hdb

If everything's good, type

poweroff

Disconnect the 40 and the 120

Disconnect the two new drives and hook them up in the Tivo.

Boot up the TiVo and see if everything works and try playing a few of your saved recordings, not all the way through, just make sure they'll start and run.

Then go to TiVo Central, Messages and Settings, Restart or Reset System, Restart the TiVo DVR, three Thumbs Down and Enter and pull the power plug as soon as the screen goes blank before it starts up again.

Put the new drives back in the computer as hdc and hdd

Boot with same cd, default choice.

type

mfsadd -x /dev/hdc /dev/hdd

If it balks or throws you any kind of warning message, do this instead

mfsadd -X /dev/hdc

and when that finishes

mfsadd -X /dev/hdd

and then try

mfsinfo /dev/hdc /dev/hdd

again and make sure everything's still good.

If so, poweroff and try in the TiVo again.

If not, report back in detail what went wrong at what point in the process.


----------



## mmoustakas

unitron said:


> Never use the -q option, it only hides information from you.
> 
> You need to run
> 
> mfsinfo /dev/hdc /dev/hdd to see if the combination of the two new drives is recognized as a valid TiVo "set".
> 
> (I'm assuming that your new first drive is connected as master on your second IDE channel and the new second drive is connected as slave on that same channel. This seems to be the way that you originally had them, as hdc and hdd.)
> 
> That missing external drive message is one you shouldn't be seeing on a Series 2 (they didn't offer that option 'til the Series 3), but I saw it once on mine, so it's buried in the software somewhere.
> 
> I suspect it got triggered by something not right with the second drive or something not right with the way the first drive looks for it.
> 
> Try this. Read all the way to the end first. Then read it again. Then start moving hardware around.
> 
> Hook up just the cd drive via the USB adapter, and make sure you can set the BIOS to boot from it first, with the MFS Live cd v1.4 in it.
> 
> Shut down with
> 
> poweroff
> 
> Then hook up the 40 as primary master (it'll be detected as /dev/hda) and the 120 as primary slave (/dev/hdb). Double check the jumper settings on the drive.
> 
> Hook up the new drives and adapters as secondary master and slave.
> 
> If they're identical except for serial number, it doesn't matter which is which yet, 'cause you'll overwrite everything on both.
> 
> (Do something to make it easy to tell which is which. like a piece of masking tape or a patch of white-out or liquid paper where it'll be easy to remove if ever necessary and use a magic marker/sharpie to mark the master as "A" and the slave as "B". That's TiVo A and B, not Linux hda and hdb.)
> 
> Check the jumpers on your adapters (you never said which ones you got). Even if they have a cable select, go ahead and set one for master and the other for slave. If you're using an 80-conductor 40 pin IDE cable, put the master on the end (black plug) and the slave on the middle (grey plug), and the blue or green or day-glo orange or whatever plug goes to the motherboard.
> 
> Boot with the MFS Live cd v1.4.
> 
> It'll offer you 4 choices. For a Series 2 you can just hit ENTER to choose the default.
> 
> Use SHIFT+PAGE UP to scroll back up through all that stuff that flew by as it booted.
> 
> (and SHIFT+PAGE DOWN to go the other way)
> 
> You should find a section where the 40 is identified as hda, the 120 as hdb, and the two 1TB drives as hdc and hdd.
> 
> If it gives the serial numbers for the drives, make sure the 1TB you have set as secondary master is recognized as hdc and the other as hdd.
> 
> If it doesn't do serial numbers
> 
> hdparm -i /dev/hdc
> 
> should show you the serial number, if not try again with an uppercase i
> 
> hdparm -I /dev/hdc
> 
> If the right drive is in the right place, proceed.
> 
> (do not use hdparm for anything else or with any other "-letterORnumber" options, although sometime when you have NO hard drives attached you can do hdparm -h to see all the scary things it can do with the other options)
> 
> To make sure that your original Tivo "set" is still OK
> 
> mfsinfo /dev/hda /dev/hdb
> 
> Should show a bunch of stuff and end with something about being able to expand ? more times, where ? will be a single number.
> 
> Now
> 
> backup -Tao - /dev/hda /dev/hdb | restore -s 500 -pi - /dev/hdc /dev/hdd
> 
> That's right, leave out the -q, leave out the -r and the number that went with it, leave out the -x, and leave out the -z.
> 
> If that works, when it finally finishes,
> 
> pdisk -l /dev/hdc
> 
> (that's a lowercase 'L' following the hyphen)
> 
> Should show some partions.
> 
> Then
> 
> pdisk -l /dev/hdd
> 
> Should also show some partions, but not as many.
> 
> then
> 
> mfsinfo /dev/hdc /dev/hdd
> 
> should give you an error message about missing header or something.
> 
> That's OK.
> 
> Type
> 
> reboot
> 
> and hit ENTER
> 
> it'll reboot. (hit enter for the default boot choice again)
> 
> Do
> 
> mfsinfo /dev/hdc /dev/hdd
> 
> again.
> 
> You should get something like you got for
> 
> mfsinfo /dev/hda /dev/hdb
> 
> If everything's good, type
> 
> poweroff
> 
> Disconnect the 40 and the 120
> 
> Disconnect the two new drives and hook them up in the Tivo.
> 
> Boot up the TiVo and see if everything works and try playing a few of your saved recordings, not all the way through, just make sure they'll start and run.
> 
> Then go to TiVo Central, Messages and Settings, Restart or Reset System, Restart the TiVo DVR, three Thumbs Down and Enter and pull the power plug as soon as the screen goes blank before it starts up again.
> 
> Put the new drives back in the computer as hdc and hdd
> 
> Boot with same cd, default choice.
> 
> type
> 
> mfsadd -x /dev/hdc /dev/hdd
> 
> If it balks or throws you any kind of warning message, do this instead
> 
> mfsadd -X /dev/hdc
> 
> and when that finishes
> 
> mfsadd -X /dev/hdd
> 
> and then try
> 
> mfsinfo /dev/hdc /dev/hdd
> 
> again and make sure everything's still good.
> 
> If so, poweroff and try in the TiVo again.
> 
> If not, report back in detail what went wrong at what point in the process.


Okay, so I followed your detailed instructions (thanks a ton by the way!), msinfo told me I could expand 3 more times, so I assume the original drive set is still good. Before I forget, I am using the sata adapters from weaknees (didn't see any obvious markings on them to share however).

But when I got to the main event (backup -Tao - /dev/hda /dev/hdb | restore -s 500 -pi - /dev/hdc /dev/hdd), it balked immediately saying "unrecognized backup" and something about using "-E" instead of "-s". I checked the command twice to make sure it was correct...which is not to say I still didn't do something wrong.
Thanks again,
Matt


----------



## unitron

mmoustakas said:


> Okay, so I followed your detailed instructions (thanks a ton by the way!), msinfo told me I could expand 3 more times, so I assume the original drive set is still good. Before I forget, I am using the sata adapters from weaknees (didn't see any obvious markings on them to share however).
> 
> But when I got to the main event (backup -Tao - /dev/hda /dev/hdb | restore -s 500 -pi - /dev/hdc /dev/hdd), it balked immediately saying "unrecognized backup" and something about using "-E" instead of "-s". I checked the command twice to make sure it was correct...which is not to say I still didn't do something wrong.
> Thanks again,
> Matt


(If you'd installed TiVo Desktop and transferred all your shows when I first suggested it, you'd be done by now)

The "which adapter works" thread I provided a link to elsewhere says the Weaknees uses the JMicron chipset.

I've been doing some research (the middle of which I am still in) and your early S2 may or may not have LBA48 support.

Put the original drives back in the Tivo and go to sytem information and write down which software version it's using and post that here.

After that, by way of experiment from which we may learn something, while I'm doing more google-fu, if you want to, you can put the Tivo original A and B drives back at hda and hdb, one of the SATAs at hdc, and do a truncated* backup | restore (that | thing is called a pipe, by the way) from hda hdb to hdc, and see if that works and runs in the TiVo.

As long as you don't overwrite the 40 and the 120, we can screw around with the new drives over and over.

How much free hard drive space do you have on your other computer, by the way?

*http://mfslive.org/fullguide.htm


----------



## vtogao

Western Digital Av-gp Wd10evds. Is This Drive Suppose To Be 5400 Or 7200 Rpm? Thanks


----------



## vtogao

Do You Know The Diference In Wd10evcs And Wd10evds ? Thanks


----------



## mmoustakas

unitron said:


> (If you'd installed TiVo Desktop and transferred all your shows when I first suggested it, you'd be done by now)
> 
> The "which adapter works" thread I provided a link to elsewhere says the Weaknees uses the JMicron chipset.
> 
> I've been doing some research (the middle of which I am still in) and your early S2 may or may not have LBA48 support.
> 
> Put the original drives back in the Tivo and go to sytem information and write down which software version it's using and post that here.
> 
> After that, by way of experiment from which we may learn something, while I'm doing more google-fu, if you want to, you can put the Tivo original A and B drives back at hda and hdb, one of the SATAs at hdc, and do a truncated* backup | restore (that | thing is called a pipe, by the way) from hda hdb to hdc, and see if that works and runs in the TiVo.
> 
> As long as you don't overwrite the 40 and the 120, we can screw around with the new drives over and over.
> 
> How much free hard drive space do you have on your other computer, by the way?
> 
> *http://mfslive.org/fullguide.htm


If the original drives are still okay, I may have to go the route of transferring everything and then putting it back...but would still like to think that this route will work (he said with stubborn and potentially moronic optimism).

I will try the truncated route when I get home. I did what I believe is a truncated backup early on via winmfs just in case, but have not tried to put it on a drive yet (but I will just do it though mfslive as you suggest).

I have enough free space to swallow up all of the shows or both original drives I believe (most of a 500 g drive, as well as several smaller ones).

I just hope the original drives still work...I have not tested them back in the tivo since I removed them saturday...
Thanks again!


----------



## unitron

mmoustakas said:


> If the original drives are still okay, I may have to go the route of transferring everything and then putting it back...but would still like to think that this route will work (he said with stubborn and potentially moronic optimism).
> 
> I will try the truncated route when I get home. I did what I believe is a truncated backup early on via winmfs just in case, but have not tried to put it on a drive yet (but I will just do it though mfslive as you suggest).
> 
> I have enough free space to swallow up all of the shows or both original drives I believe (most of a 500 g drive, as well as several smaller ones).
> 
> I just hope the original drives still work...I have not tested them back in the tivo since I removed them saturday...
> Thanks again!


We should have moved this discussion to its own thread back at the beginning, but I guess we're stuck here now.

Just remember, backups made with Win MFS work with it and backups made with MFS Live work with it. Stuff made with the old MFS Tools, I ain't sure.

You can always install TiVo Desktop and copy the stuff from your 40 and 120 just as a precaution (and a place from which to copy them to another Tivo if you get one) and still be stubborn about making -Tao work!

You could try

backup -Tao /dev/null /dev/hda /dev/hdb

which will direct the output of the backup into "nowhere".

The reason to send it to /dev/null (whatever follows the o in -Tao is the destination for the output of the command) is to test the backup part of the command pipe command thingie all by itself.

You'll probably still get an error message, but we can be more sure that it is caused by the backup part and not the restore part.

The other change from what you were doing previously is that the hyphen is left out following the o in -Tao (but the one before the T is not left out) .

In the way you were doing it before, which is correct for what you were trying to do, that hyphen tells it to send the output of the command (the o) to "standard output" (a place in memory). The -i - you use as an option for the restore command tells it to get its input from "standard input", which is the hyphen following the -i. The pipe, the | symbol, tells it to grab the output of the backup command and use it as the input of the restore command.


----------



## mmoustakas

unitron said:


> We should have moved this discussion to its own thread back at the beginning, but I guess we're stuck here now.
> 
> Just remember, backups made with Win MFS work with it and backups made with MFS Live work with it. Stuff made with the old MFS Tools, I ain't sure.
> 
> You can always install TiVo Desktop and copy the stuff from your 40 and 120 just as a precaution (and a place from which to copy them to another Tivo if you get one) and still be stubborn about making -Tao work!
> 
> You could try
> 
> backup -Tao /dev/null /dev/hda /dev/hdb
> 
> which will direct the output of the backup into "nowhere".
> 
> The reason to send it to /dev/null (whatever follows the o in -Tao is the destination for the output of the command) is to test the backup part of the command pipe command thingie all by itself.
> 
> You'll probably still get an error message, but we can be more sure that it is caused by the backup part and not the restore part.
> 
> The other change from what you were doing previously is that the hyphen is left out following the o in -Tao (but the one before the T is not left out) .
> 
> In the way you were doing it before, which is correct for what you were trying to do, that hyphen tells it to send the output of the command (the o) to "standard output" (a place in memory). The -i - you use as an option for the restore command tells it to get its input from "standard input", which is the hyphen following the -i. Standard output and standard input are sort of the same thing, or at least the same location in memory.


Okay,
I plugged the original drives back in and things worked fine...the system version is 9.3.2b-01-2-140.

I will try the truncated backup soon. I am still thinking that the fact that I got I/O errors during all of my full copy attempts may be the issue...but the drive works fine in the tivo so maybe not.

So the MFSlive ICG is leading me astray with "backup -qTao - /dev/hdc /dev/hdd | restore -s 128 -xzi - /dev/hda /dev/hdb" ?

Thanks,
Matt


----------



## mmoustakas

unitron said:


> You could try
> 
> backup -Tao /dev/null /dev/hda /dev/hdb
> 
> which will direct the output of the backup into "nowhere".


Okay, I tried this, and it is working (backing up to nowhere?) including the buffer i/o errors on hda (driveready seekcomplete error, uncorrectable error, etc.)

I also tried the ICG with the option to not save shows (backup -f 9999 -qso - /dev/hda /dev/hdb | restore -s 128 -xzpi - /dev/hdc /dev/hdd) and got even more buffer i/o errors and the tivo either just sits in "a few minutes more" or gives me that darn external drive removed thing. I tried hitting "clear" to remove the external drive as a test...did not help, the same message came up again after it rebooted.

I was going to follow the instructions that have you copy a backup file to /dos...but for some reason my main c: drive refuses to boot with the original tivo drives connected at the same time now...not sure that the hell that means.

Maybe I should try some kickstart codes on the original drives and/or a diagnostic program on the A drive via the PC and see if I can get rid of the errors?

Thanks,
Matt


----------



## richsadams

vtogao said:


> Western Digital Av-gp Wd10evds. Is This Drive Suppose To Be 5400 Or 7200 Rpm? Thanks


All WD GP "green" hard drives are variable speed depending on load. TiVo OEM hard drives are WD A/V GP. There's no advantage in using "higher performance" (i.e. faster and/or with more cache, etc.) hard drives in TiVo.



vtogao said:


> Do You Know The Diference In Wd10evcs And Wd10evds ? Thanks


With respect to using them in TiVo? Nothing.


----------



## unitron

mmoustakas said:


> Okay, I tried this, and it is working (backing up to nowhere?) including the buffer i/o errors on hda (driveready seekcomplete error, uncorrectable error, etc.)
> 
> I also tried the ICG with the option to not save shows (backup -f 9999 -qso - /dev/hda /dev/hdb | restore -s 128 -xzpi - /dev/hdc /dev/hdd) and got even more buffer i/o errors and the tivo either just sits in "a few minutes more" or gives me that darn external drive removed thing. I tried hitting "clear" to remove the external drive as a test...did not help, the same message came up again after it rebooted.
> 
> I was going to follow the instructions that have you copy a backup file to /dos...but for some reason my main c: drive refuses to boot with the original tivo drives connected at the same time now...not sure that the hell that means.
> 
> Maybe I should try some kickstart codes on the original drives and/or a diagnostic program on the A drive via the PC and see if I can get rid of the errors?
> 
> Thanks,
> Matt


Still working on the answers to your other post.

If you have a USB thumb drive at least 500MB or bigger, and USB ports on your TiVo wrangling computer (TWC), you can use it as a destination for your truncated backup image (and it sounds like your 40 and/or 120 aren't going to last much longer). Then you can copy from it to your other computer.

Hook the thumb drive to your other computer and format it FAT32.

Then, with the original TiVo drives hooked to the TWC, boot with the MFS Live cd, and then insert the thumb drive.

It should recognize it right away, and if the cd drive is already designated /dev/sda, it'll make it /dev/sdb.

You might have to hit 'enter' to get back to the command prompt.

The directory /dos should already have been created in memory by the boot cd.

Mount the thumb drive's partition

mount -t vfat /dev/sdb1 /dos

the -t means 'file system type' and then you specify it, in this case 'vfat', virtual file allocation table, which is how it catagorizes FAT32.

sdb1 is the first (and in this case, only) partition on sdb, and you're telling it to mount it to the /dos directory.

Then do your backup to /dos/backup.bak, which will write a file on the thumb drive named backup.bak

You can use a different filename if you wish, like TCD240.bak, or whatever is best to make sure you know what it is just by seeing the name.

more later


----------



## mmoustakas

unitron said:


> Still working on the answers to your other post.
> 
> If you have a USB thumb drive at least 500MB or bigger, and USB ports on your TiVo wrangling computer (TWC), you can use it as a destination for your truncated backup image (and it sounds like your 40 and/or 120 aren't going to last much longer). Then you can copy from it to your other computer.
> 
> Hook the thumb drive to your other computer and format it FAT32.
> 
> Then, with the original TiVo drives hooked to the TWC, boot with the MFS Live cd, and then insert the thumb drive.
> 
> It should recognize it right away, and if the cd drive is already designated /dev/sda, it'll make it /dev/sdb.
> 
> You might have to hit 'enter' to get back to the command prompt.
> 
> The directory /dos should already have been created in memory by the boot cd.
> 
> Mount the thumb drive's partition
> 
> mount -t vfat /dev/sdb1 /dos
> 
> the -t means 'file system type' and then you specify it, in this case 'vfat', virtual file allocation table, which is how it catagorizes FAT32.
> 
> sdb1 is the first (and in this case, only) partition on sdb, and you're telling it to mount it to the /dos directory.
> 
> Then do your backup to /dos/backup.bak, which will write a file on the thumb drive named backup.bak
> 
> You can use a different filename if you wish, like TCD240.bak, or whatever is best to make sure you know what it is just by seeing the name.
> 
> more later


I left the usb stick at work...I tried kickstart 58 on the original drive, but it does not seem to have improved things...

I also have the backup file of the tivo when it was still brand new and unhacked...but that seems fairly desperate as I will lose everything.


----------



## L David Matheny

vtogao said:


> Do You Know The Diference In Wd10evcs And Wd10evds ? Thanks


It may not make much difference in a TiVo, but C = 16MB cache and D = 32MB cache. I used a WD10EVCS in my TiVo HD and a WD20EVDS in my Premiere.


----------



## unitron

mmoustakas said:


> I left the usb stick at work...I tried kickstart 58 on the original drive, but it does not seem to have improved things...
> 
> I also have the backup file of the tivo when it was still brand new and unhacked...but that seems fairly desperate as I will lose everything.


While the TiVo is still working (I'm assuming you have a way for it to connect with your home network), go ahead and install TiVo Desktop (the free version) on your "internet" computer, and start transferring shows. Once they're safely copied, the pressure's off and we can proceed.

Any show 2 hours or shorter should come in under the 4GB file size limit that FAT32 partitions have. Copy the ones you care about most first.

If your computer has NTFS partitions, you don't have to worry about the 4GB limit.

If you have more than one partition on that drive you can change the location of where it puts the recordings from the default, which is somewhere on the C: drive.


----------



## unitron

mmoustakas said:


> Okay,
> I plugged the original drives back in and things worked fine...the system version is 9.3.2b-01-2-140.
> 
> I will try the truncated backup soon. I am still thinking that the fact that I got I/O errors during all of my full copy attempts may be the issue...but the drive works fine in the tivo so maybe not.
> 
> So the MFSlive ICG is leading me astray with "backup -qTao - /dev/hdc /dev/hdd | restore -s 128 -xzi - /dev/hda /dev/hdb" ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Matt


That's a new enough version of the software that it can handle 1TB drives, so that's one worry off of our minds.

That also means no need to run copykern.

Like I said, the -q option just hides information, so I don't like it. It won't affect whether things work or not if it's used or not, but it could have an impact on your understanding of what's going on.

The TiVo has duplicate partitions of the bootstrap, kernel, and root partitons as a safety fallback (and when it updates the software, as it no doubt did to get your S2 up to version 9, it writes it to the set not being used at the time, then changes its directions to itself of from where to boot, and reboots itself in the middle of the night, and, abbra cadabra, it's now using the updated software).

The -z option "zeros out" those duplicate partitions. In other words, on the new drive it puts the partitions there, but doesn't put anything in them, so if your Tivo ever needs to fall back to them, you're screwed.

We need to find out if that model of Series 2 uses the S1 partition layout or the layout used by later model S2s. That will determine whether to use the -p option when restoring.

The way to do that is

pdisk -l /dev/hda

assuming you've got the 40 as hda

(and remember, that option is a lowercase L)

If it's using the S1 layout, the first partition will be the Apple Partition Map and the second one, that starts at sector 64, will be the bootstrap 1 partition.

If it's using the S2 layout, the partition that starts at sector 64 will be one of the MFS media partitions, and the bootstrap partition will be farther (further?) down the list.

If it's using the S1 layout, I assume that the motherboard is configured to expect that layout, the same way Series 1 motherboards are, and that means don't use the -p option.

If the 40 is using the S2 style layout, then I'm pretty sure it came that way from the factory and that means the -p option should be used.

As for the -s option, which specifies the size to make the swap partition on the new drive, it can't hurt to make it bigger than 128, and it might help. Apparently the maximum it can use is 511. (Those are MBs, by the way)

The -x tells it to expand the drive or drives on the restore side of the pipe (that's the | which tells it to take the output of the command on its left and use that as the input for the command on its right).

I've seen times when it causes the 'target drive(s) not big enough' error, and leaving it out and then running mfsadd later worked.

That command string apparently assumes that you've got the original drives hooked to the secondary IDE controller (hdc and hdd) and the new drives hooked to the primary (hda and hdb), which is the opposite of what you've been doing. If you don't keep careful track of which drive is which, you might wind up copying the blank or screwed-up new drives onto the original drives, leaving you royally hosed.

If, in fact, you had them "reversed", the backup command might have failed because it was trying to read the new drives instead of the old ones.


----------



## unitron

mmoustakas said:


> Well it looks like I was using an old mfs disk I had from the original upgrade instead of the weaknees large disk support one (duh), but then my setup using the usb adapter for the CD Rom would not work with either the weaknees or winmfs boot disks (they boot, but then go looking for the cd-rom and cannot find it during the rest of the linux startup evidently). So I rearranged things so that just the old A drive, new A drive and CD-Rom are connect, and am using the weaknees disk to DD copy A to new A...and hopefully do the same with the B. Waiting now...since there is no progress bar...just flashing HHD lights.
> 
> If this works, it will be way cheaper than a new tivo, with more space than a new one. I will likely get a new one once we get a HD TV, but I will still want to have this tivo on another TV...
> 
> I will put the adapter drive info in the correct thread when/if I actually get it working.


And another thing about running dd

dd_rescue, in addition to having the verbose option, -v, which will show you all the progress stuff that dd won't, will also handle problems/errors much better than dd


----------



## richsadams

L David Matheny said:


> It may not make much difference in a TiVo, but C = 16MB cache and D = 32MB cache. I used a WD10EVCS in my TiVo HD and a WD20EVDS in my Premiere.


You are correct sir. Your TiVo HD had a WD1600AVBS OEM hard drive with 2MB of cache. Your TiVo Premiere had a WD3200AVVS OEM hard drive which has 8MB. TiVo doesn't require anything more with respect to cache nor does anything greater enhance performance.


----------



## mmoustakas

unitron said:


> And another thing about running dd
> 
> dd_rescue, in addition to having the verbose option, -v, which will show you all the progress stuff that dd won't, will also handle problems/errors much better than dd


So should I try to do the dd_rescue to copy each disk to the new disks? What is the correct syntax for the dd_rescue -v in that case?

As far as the ICG example above...I did not get the drives backwards...the example I pasted in was from when I had the drives switched physically before I was following your instructions.

I will take my usb stick home and try the backup to it this evening (is that process really any different than the direct disk to disk method?). Also, I have the shows transferring to the PC via tivo desktop, but I am still being stubborn...just paranoid and stubborn!

Thanks,
Matt


----------



## unitron

mmoustakas said:


> So should I try to do the dd_rescue to copy each disk to the new disks? What is the correct syntax for the dd_rescue -v in that case?
> 
> As far as the ICG example above...I did not get the drives backwards...the example I pasted in was from when I had the drives switched physically before I was following your instructions.
> 
> I will take my usb stick home and try the backup to it this evening (is that process really any different than the direct disk to disk method?). Also, I have the shows transferring to the PC via tivo desktop, but I am still being stubborn...just paranoid and stubborn!
> 
> Thanks,
> Matt


dd_rescue -h will show you all the options neither of us has any business messing with, as well as the basics, which is/are

command option(s) source drive target drive

so if you want a bit for bit copy of drive purple to drive yellow and you happened to have purple connected as hda and yellow connected as hdb and you wanted it to work out the details by itself but keep you informed

dd_rescue -v /dev/hda /dev/hdb


----------



## DavidTigerFan

Guys, I'm almost at my wit's end. My S3 Drive was going bad with several green screens so I got the latest instantcake for S3 and a WD10EARS drive. Baked it fine, but when I put it in the Tivo it just sits there on the "Welcome, Powering up..." screen. I know it's not the tivo because the old drive at least rolls over past that screen. I'm not sure what I've done wrong. The image I have from DVRUpgrade is instantcake-tcd64...9.2a-01-2-648. Any ideas?

-D


----------



## ThAbtO

DavidTigerFan said:


> Guys, I'm almost at my wit's end. My S3 Drive was going bad with several green screens so I got the latest instantcake for S3 and a WD10EARS drive. Baked it fine, but when I put it in the Tivo it just sits there on the "Welcome, Powering up..." screen. I know it's not the tivo because the old drive at least rolls over past that screen. I'm not sure what I've done wrong. The image I have from DVRUpgrade is instantcake-tcd64...9.2a-01-2-648. Any ideas?
> 
> -D


Intellipark may be the problem.


----------



## DavidTigerFan

ThAbtO said:


> Intellipark may be the problem.


Bah! I need to read more. Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

DavidTigerFan said:


> Guys, I'm almost at my wit's end. My S3 Drive was going bad with several green screens so I got the latest instantcake for S3 and a WD10EARS drive. Baked it fine, but when I put it in the Tivo it just sits there on the "Welcome, Powering up..." screen. I know it's not the tivo because the old drive at least rolls over past that screen. I'm not sure what I've done wrong. The image I have from DVRUpgrade is instantcake-tcd64...9.2a-01-2-648. Any ideas?
> 
> -D


When TiVo hangs on the "Welcome" screen it means that the motherboard cannot communicate with the hard drive.

As ThAbtO suggests, the Intellipark "feature" of the WD10EARS could be the problem if your drive was manufactured prior to Sept. 15, 2010. Let us know what the manufacture date of your drive is and if you adjust the Intellipark setting...and of course if it works. TIA!


----------



## DavidTigerFan

It was the intellipark. I got the boot CD and disabled it. Everything working fine. Now my question is, can I use the online season pass manager to set it up on the new drive? I didn't have a backup of the old.


----------



## richsadams

DavidTigerFan said:


> It was the intellipark. I got the boot CD and disabled it. Everything working fine. Now my question is, can I use the online season pass manager to set it up on the new drive? I didn't have a backup of the old.


Glad to hear things are working now. :up: You should be able to have the online SP manager populate your TiVo again...it would recognize it as the same unit. In fact that may happen automagically, I'm not sure. I know it did when you signed up for Guru Guides or KidZone.


----------



## mmoustakas

unitron said:


> And another thing about running dd
> 
> dd_rescue, in addition to having the verbose option, -v, which will show you all the progress stuff that dd won't, will also handle problems/errors much better than dd


So I tried dd_rescue twice, once with just -v and once with both -A and -v, and I still get 224 errors for I think 112k of data on the A drive (the B drive seems to go without any issue). When I try and do MFSinfo on the new drives, it says header data corrupt. But I tried MFSadd and it completed successfully (MFSinfo gave an error after that as well when I tried it). I did not even try and put these into the tivo again as I figure if MFSinfo is not recognizing the new drives properly the tivo won't either (right?).

I tried doing a truncated backup file to usb stick, but I get all of the same I/O errors during that process, so it is not going to help.

I ran the WD dos diagnostics on the original A drive, and it says everything is fine.

Then I tried mfsinfo in winmfs on the new drives, and it seemed fine. So I tried the new drives in the tivo...and it actually booted up! Briefly...I was just looking at the menus and it rebooted and the "external drive" error came up...D'OH!

I tried the fixswap in winmfs, and fix bootpage option1 then 2... none worked, just kept rebooting shortly after it booted to the main menu.

I also tried to restore the winmfs backup (that I made early in the process) to the new drives, but I get that external drive missing error.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Matt


----------



## keenanSR

I plan to re-read the directions in the first post, but I have a quick question. I think I have a failing drive in my 1TB upgraded Series 3. To replace the drive do I need to use the original 250GB drive, or can it be done with the existing 1TB drive? I'll be using the same size drive(1TB).

Thanks


----------



## mmoustakas

keenanSR said:


> I plan to re-read the directions in the first post, but I have a quick question. I think I have a failing drive in my 1TB upgraded Series 3. To replace the drive do I need to use the original 250GB drive, or can it be done with the existing 1TB drive? I'll be using the same size drive(1TB).
> 
> Thanks


Based on my current troubles, I would say it depends on how bad your current 1TB drive is. If it will copy to the new drive, you can use the same size drive, but if it will not copy, you will be happy you still have the original!


----------



## keenanSR

mmoustakas said:


> Based on my current troubles, I would say it depends on how bad your current 1TB drive is. If it will copy to the new drive, you can use the same size drive, but if it will not copy, you will be happy you still have the original!


Yes, I'd rather not lose the recordings I have on the drive, but I do have the original worst case.

I'll have to go back and read about your experience, I've only just browsed this thread occasionally since I upgraded my S3 and HD awhile back.

I'll also to have to get up to date on the best currently available drive to use, since bkdtv hasn't been around for awhile I'm guessing that first post is not current.


----------



## unitron

keenanSR said:


> Yes, I'd rather not lose the recordings I have on the drive, but I do have the original worst case.
> 
> I'll have to go back and read about your experience, I've only just browsed this thread occasionally since I upgraded my S3 and HD awhile back.
> 
> I'll also to have to get up to date on the best currently available drive to use, since bkdtv hasn't been around for awhile I'm guessing that first post is not current.


Get the free version of Tivo Desktop and get started copying anything you want to save before that drive dies.


----------



## unitron

mmoustakas said:


> So I tried dd_rescue twice, once with just -v and once with both -A and -v, and I still get 224 errors for I think 112k of data on the A drive (the B drive seems to go without any issue). When I try and do MFSinfo on the new drives, it says header data corrupt. But I tried MFSadd and it completed successfully (MFSinfo gave an error after that as well when I tried it). I did not even try and put these into the tivo again as I figure if MFSinfo is not recognizing the new drives properly the tivo won't either (right?).
> 
> I tried doing a truncated backup file to usb stick, but I get all of the same I/O errors during that process, so it is not going to help.
> 
> I ran the WD dos diagnostics on the original A drive, and it says everything is fine.
> 
> Then I tried mfsinfo in winmfs on the new drives, and it seemed fine. So I tried the new drives in the tivo...and it actually booted up! Briefly...I was just looking at the menus and it rebooted and the "external drive" error came up...D'OH!
> 
> I tried the fixswap in winmfs, and fix bootpage option1 then 2... none worked, just kept rebooting shortly after it booted to the main menu.
> 
> I also tried to restore the winmfs backup (that I made early in the process) to the new drives, but I get that external drive missing error.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> Thanks,
> Matt


Apparently things are so screwed up that you're going to have to copy everything off with TiVo Desktop and then start from scratch with a known good backup image.


----------



## keenanSR

unitron said:


> Get the free version of Tivo Desktop and get started copying anything you want to save before that drive dies.


Yes, I've already done that, can't copy the premium channel stuff though.


----------



## mmoustakas

unitron said:


> Apparently things are so screwed up that you're going to have to copy everything off with TiVo Desktop and then start from scratch with a known good backup image.


So I have an interesting new symptom.

I had given up on keeping anything that I could not transfer (via tivo desktop or season pass manager), and had spent yesterday using my ancient original tivo image to get one of the 1TB drives updated and running thinking it was a 40gb drive, then expanding the drive. So far so good.

But then I did mfsadd to add the second 1TB. I got the external drive missing error a couple times, and reseated it several times until it took and booted. But then it was doing the thing where it booted up fine and then after a minute or two, it just restarts...in an endless loop. The next time the external drive error came up, I let it remove it, and it is now working fine. So this got me thinking that when I had done the dd_restore on both drives and it booted, the problem was the second drive...not the errors when coping the A drive. So I started doing a two drive to one drive backup/restore to the other 1TB to see what would happen...and no errors so far (WTF!).

So I may end up with everything on a 1TB series 2. But evidently something about having two drives with two SATA adapters does not place nice with the series 2.

Hmmmmmmm....I will let you know how it goes with the final test.


----------



## mmoustakas

So I am done...hopefully my blow by blow will help someone else (not to mention unitorn's tips!). But the final attempt was to do a truncated backup from the old A & B to just one 1TB, and I received no errors this time, but the tivo just did a powering up/reboot loop. So I have conceded partial defeat...I managed to upgrade the series 2 to 1TB, but not 2x1TB drives, and due apparently to errors on the original A, I could not preserve any settings or programs. I did offload programs via tivo desktop, and moved season passes to my other series 2 and back to the first, so I did not really lose much.

I wish someone had found a way to move everything from a two drive to a one drive and preserve everything, not that it would have helped me this time.

Thanks to everyone for putting up with the project log! Any admins want to move these posts to a series 2 drive expansion section?


----------



## ThreeSoFar

mmoustakas said:


> So I am done...[snip]


Sorry it wasn't easier.

But I doubt you'll regret the one drive solution. The extra failure cases involved with the external drive are simply not worth it. (two jacks, the wire, the extra drive and power supply....all of these may fail)


----------



## unitron

mmoustakas said:


> So I am done...hopefully my blow by blow will help someone else (not to mention unitorn's tips!). But the final attempt was to do a truncated backup from the old A & B to just one 1TB, and I received no errors this time, but the tivo just did a powering up/reboot loop. So I have conceded partial defeat...I managed to upgrade the series 2 to 1TB, but not 2x1TB drives, and due apparently to errors on the original A, I could not preserve any settings or programs. I did offload programs via tivo desktop, and moved season passes to my other series 2 and back to the first, so I did not really lose much.
> 
> I wish someone had found a way to move everything from a two drive to a one drive and preserve everything, not that it would have helped me this time.
> 
> Thanks to everyone for putting up with the project log! Any admins want to move these posts to a series 2 drive expansion section?


The good news is that you can put that other drive in a computer running TiVo Desktop and have lots of room to automatically back up shows from the TiVo.


----------



## keenanSR

I apologize for asking this as I'm sure it's buried somewhere in this thread, but is there a list of currently available 1TB drives that have shown to be problem free for use in the Series 3? Not having that first post updated is a bit of a bummer when searching for this sort of info.


----------



## richsadams

keenanSR said:


> I apologize for asking this as I'm sure it's buried somewhere in this thread, but is there a list of currently available 1TB drives that have shown to be problem free for use in the Series 3? Not having that first post updated is a bit of a bummer when searching for this sort of info.


WD10EARS, WD10EVCS, WD10EVDS, WD10EURS. FWIW we've had the WD10EVCS in our Series3 for a little over two years (or maybe more?) and it's been flawless.

BTW, all but the WD10EARS are A/V dedicated drives which means they run a little more quietly. However you can easily adjust the AAM (auto acoustic management) on WD10EARS to 128 by using HDDScan to reach the same level. Details are in the FAQ (Section IV, #32).

These model drives manufactured prior September 15, 2010 had to have the Intellipark feature adjusted to avoid a boot or reboot issue. However by all reports everyone is getting drives manufactured after that from the major suppliers now (Amazon, Newegg, etc.) so you shouldn't have any worries.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## keenanSR

richsadams said:


> WD10EARS, WD10EVCS, WD10EVDS, WD10EURS. FWIW we've had the WD10EVCS in our Series3 for a little over two years (or maybe more?) and it's been flawless.
> 
> BTW, all but the WD10EARS are A/V dedicated drives which means they run a little more quietly. However you can easily adjust the AAM (auto acoustic management) on WD10EARS to 128 by using HDDScan to reach the same level. Details are in the FAQ (Section IV, #32).
> 
> These model drives manufactured prior September 15, 2010 had to have the Intellipark feature adjusted to avoid a boot or reboot issue. However by all reports everyone is getting drives manufactured after that from the major suppliers now (Amazon, Newegg, etc.) so you shouldn't have any worries.
> 
> Happy upgrading!


Perfect, thanks Rich!


----------



## mattack

Sorry, another FAQ, and only tangentially related. I had a S3 drive die, now my S3 itself died (seems to have somehow been my fault). I have a very slight hope that the drive failure (since it still spins up, no click of death sound as far as I can hear) is an apparently semi-common firmware card issue (on the drive).

So if I replaced my S3, and theoretically got the drive revived.. would it work in the new S3? Is the drive tied to the machine? I know you can't swap ACROSS machine type.. but would my programs still be watchable on the new S3?


----------



## ThreeSoFar

mattack said:


> Sorry, another FAQ, and only tangentially related. I had a S3 drive die, now my S3 itself died (seems to have somehow been my fault). I have a very slight hope that the drive failure (since it still spins up, no click of death sound as far as I can hear) is an apparently semi-common firmware card issue (on the drive).
> 
> So if I replaced my S3, and theoretically got the drive revived.. would it work in the new S3? Is the drive tied to the machine? I know you can't swap ACROSS machine type.. but would my programs still be watchable on the new S3?


It sounds like you're trying to watch your shows on the old drive in a new/replacement S3?

It's worth a shot, but I think the mismatch in the TSN will mean that won't work. Once you do a CADE (Clear and Delete Everything), the drive will work, but of course after that your content is gone.

Good luck.


----------



## richsadams

mattack said:


> Sorry, another FAQ, and only tangentially related. I had a S3 drive die, now my S3 itself died (seems to have somehow been my fault). I have a very slight hope that the drive failure (since it still spins up, no click of death sound as far as I can hear) is an apparently semi-common firmware card issue (on the drive).
> 
> So if I replaced my S3, and theoretically got the drive revived.. would it work in the new S3? Is the drive tied to the machine? I know you can't swap ACROSS machine type.. but would my programs still be watchable on the new S3?


Sorry to hear about your Series3. The short answers to your questions are yes, yes and no, probably not what you were hoping for.

Yes, providing the hard drive is still serviceable you _could_ slip it into another Series3 successfully. Yes drives are tied to the machine so the final answer is no, any recordings would not be watchable.

After installing your drive in the "new" Series3 it would boot up and immediately throw and error. To fix the error you would need to run a "Clear and Delete Everything". After that TiVo would work normally. So if the replacement Series3 is working (has a good hard drive) there would be no advantage to installing your hard drive.

Can you go a little deeper with respect to the drive dying...and then the Series3 dying?


----------



## richsadams

ThreeSoFar said:


> It sounds like you're trying to watch your shows on the old drive in a new/replacement S3?
> 
> It's worth a shot, but I think the mismatch in the TSN will mean that won't work. Once you do a CADE (Clear and Delete Everything), the drive will work, but of course after that your content is gone.
> 
> Good luck.


Ha, that's what I get for getting up to feed the dogs while writing my answer.


----------



## rastoma

I see the list of the recommended hard drives but I am having a hard time finding them in stock at different places.

I have a Tivo HD with stock HD. 500gb is enough for me. I never get close to filling up the 250 that's in it now. But I want to replace the drive to see if it gets rid of the audio skipping on some channels.

Is the Seagate ST3500410SV an OK drive to use?

Is there an update list of new, current drives that will work OK?


----------



## keenanSR

rastoma said:


> I see the list of the recommended hard drives but I am having a hard time finding them in stock at different places.
> 
> I have a Tivo HD with stock HD. 500gb is enough for me. I never get close to filling up the 250 that's in it now. But I want to replace the drive to see if it gets rid of the audio skipping on some channels.
> 
> Is the Seagate ST3500410SV an OK drive to use?
> 
> Is there an update list of new, current drives that will work OK?


See Rich's post No. 7421 above, all those drives listed show in stock at Amazon.


----------



## 84lion

richsadams said:


> WD10EARS, WD10EVCS, WD10EVDS, WD10EURS. FWIW we've had the WD10EVCS in our Series3 for a little over two years (or maybe more?) and it's been flawless.
> 
> These model drives manufactured prior September 15, 2010 had to have the Intellipark feature adjusted to avoid a boot or reboot issue. However by all reports everyone is getting drives manufactured after that from the major suppliers now (Amazon, Newegg, etc.) so you shouldn't have any worries.
> 
> Happy upgrading!


Rich, does this mean that I could buy a WD10EVDS from Amazon and not have to fool around with the Intellipark feature? My problem is that I only have laptops, and based on the first post, I need a SATA connection to disable Intellipark. The WD10EVDS price on Amazon looks quite tempting and I'm thinking about getting spares.


----------



## ThAbtO

84lion said:


> Rich, does this mean that I could buy a WD10EVDS from Amazon and not have to fool around with the Intellipark feature? My problem is that I only have laptops, and based on the first post, I need a SATA connection to disable Intellipark. The WD10EVDS price on Amazon looks quite tempting and I'm thinking about getting spares.


Someone had the idea of taking the drive and a CD with WDIDLE to a computer repair shop, have them hook it up and run WDIDLE for perhaps a small fee.


----------



## richsadams

rastoma said:


> I see the list of the recommended hard drives but I am having a hard time finding them in stock at different places.
> 
> I have a Tivo HD with stock HD. 500gb is enough for me. I never get close to filling up the 250 that's in it now. But I want to replace the drive to see if it gets rid of the audio skipping on some channels.
> 
> Is the Seagate ST3500410SV an OK drive to use?
> 
> Is there an update list of new, current drives that will work OK?


FWIW I wouldn't waste any time with a 500GB drive. The cost difference between 500GB and 1TB is negligible and you may just find out one day that you want more space. These are the drives that I'd recommend:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8440199#post8440199

If you absolutely insist on a 500GB drive, this is the one I'd recommend:

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...KO4C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1300840975&sr=8-1

The Seagate drive you referenced is designed for security DVR's. The acoustics are louder than your existing TiVo's hard drive and cannot be adjusted. It's a 7200 RPM hard drive so will likely run hotter as well and there's no advantage to using a faster hard drive in TiVo.

I used to be a die hard Seagate fan but since they acquired Maxtor their QC has gone into the tank, which is really too bad. Western Digital is at the top of the heap now (who would have thunk?) and it's the brand TiVo uses in all of their DVR's today.

Hope that helps and happy upgrading!


----------



## richsadams

84lion said:


> Rich, does this mean that I could buy a WD10EVDS from Amazon and not have to fool around with the Intellipark feature? My problem is that I only have laptops, and based on the first post, I need a SATA connection to disable Intellipark. The WD10EVDS price on Amazon looks quite tempting and I'm thinking about getting spares.


The answer is now "almost certainly". Most of WD's A/V GP drives including the WD10EVDS no longer needed the Intellipark setting tweaked several months before their standard drives like the WD10EARS. Apparently WD changed the build specs earlier on the A/V GP drives, some as early as March 2010. So the odds are that if you get a WD10EVDS from Amazon it will not need any adjustments at all.


----------



## sungko

nevermind


----------



## gwsat

I post to give a report and to ask a couple of unrelated questions. First the report. As noted in an earlier post, I added a Western Digital My Book AV DVR Expander 1 TB eSATA drive, which I got from Amazon, to my S3 about three weeks ago. I have been using it heavily ever since and couldn't have asked for more. It is quiet, reliable, and unobtrusive.

Now for the questions. Question 1: _*Premiere XL drives are for sale at Amazon for $219.99.*_ According to the Series3 upgrade FAQ I should be able to add a lifetime subscription for the Premiers XL on top of the existing lifetime subscription covering my S3. Is this still so? If so, a Premiere XL with a lifetime subscription for less than $420 is tempting, indeed. I hesitate, though, because of a considerable amount of negative feedback I have seen about both of the S4 boxes, particularly when using the HDUI. Others, though, swear by them. What should I do? Would be interested to hear any thoughts on the matter anyone might be willing to share here.

Question 2: After upgrading my S3's original 250GB drive with the 1TB external drive I am feeling exposed because the original drive is nearly 4 and a half years old. As matters stand, if it fails I will lose everything I have recorded, which I would prefer to avoid. What is the easiest and most straightforward way to transfer my S3's non copy protected programs to my Mac? I should add that I also run Windows 7 on my Mac, so if a Windows solution would be better, I could go that way. Once again, any suggestions will be gratefully appreciated.


----------



## unitron

gwsat said:


> I post to give a report and to ask a couple of unrelated questions. First the report. As noted in an earlier post, I added a Western Digital My Book AV DVR Expander 1 TB eSATA drive, which I got from Amazon, to my S3 about three weeks ago. I have been using it heavily ever since and couldn't have asked for more. It is quiet, reliable, and unobtrusive.
> 
> Now for the questions. Question 1: _*Premiere XL drives are for sale at Amazon for $219.99.*_ According to the Series3 upgrade FAQ I should be able to add a lifetime subscription for the Premiers XL on top of the existing lifetime subscription covering my S3. Is this still so? If so, a Premiere XL with a lifetime subscription for less than $420 is tempting, indeed. I hesitate, though, because of a considerable amount of negative feedback I have seen about both of the S4 boxes, particularly when using the HDUI. Others, though, swear by them. What should I do? Would be interested to hear any thoughts on the matter anyone might be willing to share here.
> 
> Question 2: After upgrading my S3's original 250GB drive with the 1TB external drive I am feeling exposed because the original drive is nearly 4 and a half years old. As matters stand, if it fails I will lose everything I have recorded, which I would prefer to avoid. What is the easiest and most straightforward way to transfer my S3's non copy protected programs to my Mac? I should add that I also run Windows 7 on my Mac, so if a Windows solution would be better, I could go that way. Once again, any suggestions will be gratefully appreciated.


See if Win7 on the Mac will run the free version of TiVo Desktop.

All those shows will still be tied to your household's TiVo account (until or unless you run them through some other piece of software), but you'll have them backed up on a non-TiVo hard drive formatted in a file system your computers can understand, and you can copy them back to any S2 or higher networked TiVo in your house (i.e., on your Tivo account) with all metadata intact.


----------



## mattack

richsadams said:


> Can you go a little deeper with respect to the drive dying...and then the Series3 dying?


A couple of months ago, my S3 rebooted (ironically I think because my UPS started being flaky), and it just wouldn't come up.

Taking the drive out of the S3 and hooking it up to a computer, no trace of the drive shows up, at the hardware level. (At the OS level, I would generally obviously get a dialog asking me to format it.) i.e. nothing connected to the SATA or USB ports (when hooked through an external SATA<>USB dock). The drive *does* spin up, I can feel it, and felt it spinning after moving it around after unplugging it.. (yeah, obviously I shouldn't do that too hard, I did it accidentally the first time). I do *NOT* hear what I would call "click of death" noises, but I may be misinterpreting what sound pretty much like normal seek noises.. My *SLIGHT* hope is that this is actually a drive-controller-on-the-drive problem, which I see mention of on the net for various Seagate drives -- people mention the drive can suddenly "stop showing up" at any time. Nothing is visibly fried, but again, it spins up...

So I put my orig S3 drive (which was flaky, part of the reason I upgraded in IIRC 2008) back in and lived with it rebooting a lot.. finally tried to upgrade it to my new 2 TB drive (I know I won't get the full space, that was just a cheap drive at Amazon at the time)..

I've done this kind of upgrade before. Now, when I power it on with ANY drive (orig drive, new drive, NO DRIVE), the front of the Tivo does NOT power on... I do NOT get any video output (I see a bit of a 'flicker', but that seems to be some of the hardware powering up, but it's basically black the whole time).

I *do* feel the hard drive in the Tivo power up, and the fan on the back is powering up. It's almost like the motherboard isn't getting power.. I see nothing obviously disconnected, and at one point, I tried simply unplugging and replugging the big plastic plug that connects to the motherboard from the power supply.. no change..

Having "only" 2 digital tuners is starting to be a pain... I was semi-hoping I could take advantage of the $149 refurbs (if I couldn't get it to somehow power up), with the even slighter hope that if I *did* get the drive repaired, I could just use it in the refurb S3.. But since the drive is actually under warranty for a few more years, I'll explore trying to buy a duplicate on eBay (have to match firmware) and swapping controller cards..

but having a S3 that won't power on is obviously a big problem too.

Wow, that was long.. Basically -- "dead" Seagate drive that still seems to power up (and no smoke), "dead" S3 that still powers up fan and drive (and no smoke).


----------



## gwsat

unitron said:


> See if Win7 on the Mac will run the free version of TiVo Desktop.
> 
> All those shows will still be tied to your household's TiVo account (until or unless you run them through some other piece of software), but you'll have them backed up on a non-TiVo hard drive formatted in a file system your computers can understand, and you can copy them back to any S2 or higher networked TiVo in your house (i.e., on your Tivo account) with all metadata intact.


unitron -- Thanks for the tip. Win 7 running under VMware fusion handled the latest free version of TiVo Desktop just fine. I was able to transfer a 4.5 hour football telecast I had saved without incident. I have a 640GB portable external drive half of which is formatted for NTFS so I had a place to put the backup.The bad news was that it took 10 hours. By the way, didn't I see somewhere that the S4s handled such transfers much faster than an S3 does?

In the event my S3's drive fails, what do I have to do to to transfer a TiVo recording I have saved in TiVo Desktop back to it after I have replaced the failed drive?


----------



## unitron

gwsat said:


> unitron -- Thanks for the tip. Win 7 running under VMware fusion handled the latest free version of TiVo Desktop just fine. I was able to transfer a 4.5 hour football telecast I had saved without incident. I have a 640GB portable external drive half of which is formatted for NTFS so I had a place to put the backup.The bad news was that it took 10 hours. By the way, didn't I see somewhere that the S4s handled such transfers much faster than an S3 does?
> 
> In the event my S3's drive fails, what do I have to do to to transfer a TiVo recording I have saved in TiVo Desktop back to it after I have replaced the failed drive?


10 hours? Is your S3 connected to your home network wired or wireless? How about the target computer? Wired or wireless? That sounds like a lot of latency going on somewhere.

The best way is to have both near each other and running CAT5 to the same hub/router/switch/whatever, one of those things that looks like a harmonica, but of course that's not always feasible.

Somewhere else on this site there's an explanation of the 2 transfer methods that can inform you better than I. Apparently the faster method is some sort of real-time streaming thing, called a transport stream, but, as it doesn't produce a copy usable by the older Tivos, I don't use it, I use the older, slower method that uses program streams. (I think this is correct, but I can't find where I read it right now)

TiVo Desktop has an option to start the TiVo server whenever you boot the computer. This is a program that can run even if you don't have Tivo Desktop opened, and any TiVo on your account that's on the same network as that computer will be able to see that computer (and other Tivos meeting the same criteria). You go into "Now Playing" and go to the bottom of the list near the "Recently Deleted" folder and you'll see whatever the computer's name is, and the names of other TiVos on the network. (You may need to go to Tivo's website, log into your account, and name your Tivo(s) and activate Multi-Room Viewing and stuff)

Open the computer's folder and there will be listed whatever you've "transferred" (copied) to it. You just select the recording and say "transfer".

You can create folder's inside the computer's "My Tivo Recordings" folder and move the corresponding shows from the MTR folder into that sub-folder (all the Daily Shows in a "Daily Show" folder, for example), and the folder will show up as a sub-folder inside the computer's folder in the "Now Playing" list, and the shows will be inside it.


----------



## gwsat

unitron -- Thanks for the followup. I realized after I posted last night that the slow speed of the transfers was almost certainly the result of my having done them wirelessly. I am still very pleased with the result. From now on when I want to transfer programs I will simply start the transfers immediately before I go to bed. I did that last night with a second 4.5 hour football game recording. This time TiVo Desktop indicated that the transfer would take about 7.5 hours. When I checked this morning the transfer had completed and was just fine. 

After I read your latest post this morning, I checked my S3 and saw that the TiVo Server is shown at the bottom of the Now Playing list and the recording I made are available for playback. That's pretty slick.

Right now, I have TiVo Desktop for Windows on my 2010 Macbook Air. I am running Windows under VMware Fusion in Unity mode. As noted above, TiVo Desktop worked well. I now realize, though, that TiVo Server's maximum utility can't be achieved if it isn't left running all the time. Unfortunately, it wouldn't be convenient to do that with my little laptop so I am considering buying a new desktop machine, I currently have a 6 year old HP/Compaq, which has become so slow, it is almost useless. Thanks to you, I have learned how to backup my S3's files to an external drive, so I am a happy camper. Thanks again for your help.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

gwsat said:


> Question 1: _*Premiere XL drives are for sale at Amazon for $219.99.*_ ...a Premiere XL with a lifetime subscription for less than $420 is tempting, indeed.


Check your numbers on the lifetime cost. Sounds like you're thinking it's $199, and I don't think it goes that low. You can probably get $299, which isn't bad for the XL. But consider a regular Premiere and upgrade it to 2TB yourself--it's really easy (Rich will probably respond, he's a good resource). See:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8445804

I've done that solution three times (sold one to a friend)--each upgrade offer I cashed in on was $470 for a (shipped) LIFETIMED S4 (with 300GB stock drive). A few hours of copying and an $80-$100 2TB WD drive later (I used WD20EARS, there's several good choices on that thread), you'll have yourself a 2TB S4 (bigger than the XL), giving you over 300 hours of HD. So this comes to about $550 for a 300hr HD unit, and you get to shelve the original 300GB drive as your backup. If you're expecting to stay in one area a long time, it's easiest to let the stock drive stay in until you get the CableCARD install complete and working properly, that way that is transferred to the new drive and will be there when/if you ever need the backup.



> I hesitate, though, because of a considerable amount of negative feedback I have seen about both of the S4 boxes, particularly when using the HDUI. Others, though, swear by them. ...


I'm one of the latter, obv. The HD/SD argument doesn't sway me--I use a laptop, not the TV, to do my Internet stuff. I much prefer the SD menus. And on the S4 there's a noticable increase in responsiveness/speed on the SD menus. Plus with the Premiere (and the HDTiVO), you will only need a single CableCARD, not two as the S3 still requires. I add to my pro-S4 argument that there's "room to grow" on the S4. TiVo may have always been slow (yes, horribly so) in making software changes, but they haven't ever NOT done so. There are significant gains to be made with tweaking the software that you'll see over time, to include a jump in capabilities/reliability/speed once they enable the second CPU, which currently sits unutilized.


> Question 2: After upgrading my S3's original 250GB drive with the 1TB external drive I am feeling exposed because the original drive is nearly 4 and a half years old. As matters stand, if it fails I will lose everything I have recorded, which I would prefer to avoid. What is the easiest and most straightforward way to transfer my S3's non copy protected programs to my Mac? I should add that I also run Windows 7 on my Mac, so if a Windows solution would be better, I could go that way. Once again, any suggestions will be gratefully appreciated.


First, I'll comment on one thing that maybe you weren't asking: I don't like your decision to use the external expander--too many extra parts added, more failure points and a bad track record. But given 2TB drive upgrades are not easy (IIRC) on the S3, it may be your easiest choice.

You're in a precarious situation with your old drive, but there are lots of folks who swear by the S3. I would have recommended if you're sticking with the S3 that you NOT do the external drive, and instead copy/transfer the existing drive to a 1.5TB drive, giving you about 1.2TB (IIRC) of TiVo utilized space, about what you get with your stock(aging)+external solution, with all new hardware and five or so fewer failure points (cable, two sockets, external unit, its power supply and its drive).

Unfortunately, I believe now that you've married your external to your main drive, all of your shows will be lost if you go back to one drive in order to do the upgrade to a single internal drive.



gwsat said:


> unitron -- ...I realized ...that the slow speed of the transfers was almost certainly the result of my having done them wirelessly.


Consider a Mac Mini, thats what we use. They're trivially easy to run machines, very high quality, low power. Pop it onto an unused HDMI port on your TV, add $140 or so for the Bluetooth keyboard and trackpad (I LOVE that trackpad--our wireless apple mouse sits unused). Plug it into the wired network, and have a place you can plug your MBA into the wired network for TiVO transfers from either the TiVo or the Mini, so you get faster transfer times. We popped on a Newertech MiniStack v3, an external 2TB drive, which is also low profile and low power. Tons of room, and the MBP and the Mini both Time Machine to that drive.


----------



## gwsat

ThreeSoFar said:


> Check your numbers on the lifetime cost. Sounds like you're thinking it's $199, and I don't think it goes that low. You can probably get $299, which isn't bad for the XL. But consider a regular Premiere and upgrade it to 2TB yourself--it's really easy (Rich will probably respond, he's a good resource). See:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8445804
> 
> I've done that solution three times (sold one to a friend)--each upgrade offer I cashed in on was $470 for a (shipped) LIFETIMED S4 (with 300GB stock drive). A few hours of copying and an $80-$100 2TB WD drive later (I used WD20EARS, there's several good choices on that thread), you'll have yourself a 2TB S4 (bigger than the XL), giving you over 300 hours of HD. So this comes to about $550 for a 300hr HD unit, and you get to shelve the original 300GB drive as your backup. If you're expecting to stay in one area a long time, it's easiest to let the stock drive stay in until you get the CableCARD install complete and working properly, that way that is transferred to the new drive and will be there when/if you ever need the backup.
> 
> I'm one of the latter, obv. The HD/SD argument doesn't sway me--I use a laptop, not the TV, to do my Internet stuff. I much prefer the SD menus. And on the S4 there's a noticable increase in responsiveness/speed on the SD menus. Plus with the Premiere (and the HDTiVO), you will only need a single CableCARD, not two as the S3 still requires. I add to my pro-S4 argument that there's "room to grow" on the S4. TiVo may have always been slow (yes, horribly so) in making software changes, but they haven't ever NOT done so. There are significant gains to be made with tweaking the software that you'll see over time, to include a jump in capabilities/reliability/speed once they enable the second CPU, which currently sits unutilized.
> 
> First, I'll comment on one thing that maybe you weren't asking: I don't like your decision to use the external expander--too many extra parts added, more failure points and a bad track record. But given 2TB drive upgrades are not easy (IIRC) on the S3, it may be your easiest choice.
> 
> You're in a precarious situation with your old drive, but there are lots of folks who swear by the S3. I would have recommended if you're sticking with the S3 that you NOT do the external drive, and instead copy/transfer the existing drive to a 1.5TB drive, giving you about 1.2TB (IIRC) of TiVo utilized space, about what you get with your stock(aging)+external solution, with all new hardware and five or so fewer failure points (cable, two sockets, external unit, its power supply and its drive).
> 
> Unfortunately, I believe now that you've married your external to your main drive, all of your shows will be lost if you go back to one drive in order to do the upgrade to a single internal drive.
> 
> Consider a Mac Mini, thats what we use. They're trivially easy to run machines, very high quality, low power. Pop it onto an unused HDMI port on your TV, add $140 or so for the Bluetooth keyboard and trackpad (I LOVE that trackpad--our wireless apple mouse sits unused). Plug it into the wired network, and have a place you can plug your MBA into the wired network for TiVO transfers from either the TiVo or the Mini, so you get faster transfer times. We popped on a Newertech MiniStack v3, an external 2TB drive, which is also low profile and low power. Tons of room, and the MBP and the Mini both Time Machine to that drive.


I agree with you that a Mac Mini as an HTPC would be a good choice. I already own an Apple wireless keyboard and the trackpad can be bought for about $50. I used my Apple mouse so seldom, I gave it to my grandson. If I get a Mac Mini, which is likely, I agree that the wireless trackpad would be a good addition. I have used Mac laptops for more than 8 years, so I prefer trackpads to mice. If I go the Mac Mini route I will set it up like my MBA and run Windows under VMware Fusion. That way I would be able to use TiVo Desktop for Windows to backup the TiVo(s) directly to the Mac Mini and an attached HTPC formatted drive. That would be pretty slick.

I really have liked the S4s, too. I had one of each for awhile on a Lend Lease basis and used them extensively ('nuf said, if you get what I mean). I prefer the HDUI to the SD version. Although it is slower because of its graphics, I like the utility it provides not available with the SD menus. For example, on some screens, Find Programs, for example, it is possible to see the submenu titles by simply highlighting Find Programs. With the SD menus, though, you have to press Select to move to the next screen to see the submenus.

After I saw your post I did a little more research and learned how really cheap the Premiere boxes are these days. I agree that a Premiere for less than $90 would make $299 for a lifetime subscription sensible. I may well do that and add a larger internal drive as you suggest, or just buy another WD eSATA drive.

I am quite comfortable with my decision to add a WD eSATA 1TB drive to my S3. It was cheap, easy to do, and quintupled my storage capacity. The drawback, of course, is that if my S3's 4.5 year old internal drive fails, I will lose everything on both drives. That's why I started using TiVo Desktop for Windows to backup the programs I want to keep to an external drive. Fortunately, there aren't many of them because I have primarily used my TiVos as time shifting devices, not for archiving programs. Thus, there aren't many shows I want to copy to disc from the S3. If the S3's internal drive fails, I'll just buy a new one and start over. In my case, it wouldn't be a big deal.

Thanks for your feedback, I appreciated it.


----------



## unitron

gwsat said:


> unitron -- Thanks for the followup. I realized after I posted last night that the slow speed of the transfers was almost certainly the result of my having done them wirelessly. I am still very pleased with the result. From now on when I want to transfer programs I will simply start the transfers immediately before I go to bed. I did that last night with a second 4.5 hour football game recording. This time TiVo Desktop indicated that the transfer would take about 7.5 hours. When I checked this morning the transfer had completed and was just fine.
> 
> After I read your latest post this morning, I checked my S3 and saw that the TiVo Server is shown at the bottom of the Now Playing list and the recording I made are available for playback. That's pretty slick.
> 
> Right now, I have TiVo Desktop for Windows on my 2010 Macbook Air. I am running Windows under VMware Fusion in Unity mode. As noted above, TiVo Desktop worked well. I now realize, though, that TiVo Server's maximum utility can't be achieved if it isn't left running all the time. Unfortunately, it wouldn't be convenient to do that with my little laptop so I am considering buying a new desktop machine, I currently have a 6 year old HP/Compaq, which has become so slow, it is almost useless. Thanks to you, I have learned how to backup my S3's files to an external drive, so I am a happy camper. Thanks again for your help.


If you get the TiVo its own computer (yes, I know that sounds ridiculous, but it's what I wound up doing--had an extra motherboard)you can get another 1TB drive for your TiVo and copy everything over, then use the old 1TB for the OS and other junk on the TiVo's computer, and add a 2TB or two just to store programs transferred from the Tivo (make it all one big NT partition), and you can connect that computer to your network non-wirelessly, which will speed things up even if the TiVo is still wireless, or you can connect it and the TiVo non-wirelessly to a wireless access point with multiple wired inputs, which will speed things up even more, and just worry about wireless for the TiVo to use the internet to download guide data, or if you're a networking wizard you can put a regular nic and a wireless nic in the TiVo's computer, and let the Tivo access the internet through the computer's wireless connection, but let it and its computer talk to each other over CAT5.

That old HP/Compaq should work as the Tivo's computer just fine and you can get that new desktop for yourself. (Giving the TiVo its own computer is one thing, giving it the best one in the house, well that *is* ridiculous)


----------



## unitron

gwsat said:


> I agree with you that a Mac Mini as an HTPC would be a good choice. I already own an Apple wireless keyboard and the trackpad can be bought for about $50. I used my Apple mouse so seldom, I gave it to my grandson. If I get a Mac Mini, which is likely, I agree that the wireless trackpad would be a good addition. I have used Mac laptops for more than 8 years, so I prefer trackpads to mice. If I go the Mac Mini route I will set it up like my MBA and run Windows under VMware Fusion. That way I would be able to use TiVo Desktop for Windows to backup the TiVo(s) directly to the Mac Mini and an attached HTPC formatted drive. That would be pretty slick.
> 
> I really have liked the S4s, too. I had one of each for awhile on a Lend Lease basis and used them extensively ('nuf said, if you get what I mean). I prefer the HDUI to the SD version. Although it is slower because of its graphics, I like the utility it provides not available with the SD menus. For example, on some screens, Find Programs, for example, it is possible to see the submenu titles by simply highlighting Find Programs. With the SD menus, though, you have to press Select to move to the next screen to see the submenus.
> 
> After I saw your post I did a little more research and learned how really cheap the Premiere boxes are these days. I agree that a Premiere for less than $90 would make $299 for a lifetime subscription sensible. I may well do that and add a larger internal drive as you suggest, or just buy another WD eSATA drive.
> 
> I am quite comfortable with my decision to add a WD eSATA 1TB drive to my S3. It was cheap, easy to do, and quintupled my storage capacity. The drawback, of course, is that if my S3's 4.5 year old internal drive fails, I will lose everything on both drives. That's why I started using TiVo Desktop for Windows to backup the programs I want to keep to an external drive. Fortunately, there aren't many of them because I have primarily used my TiVos as time shifting devices, not for archiving programs. Thus, there aren't many shows I want to copy to disc from the S3. If the S3's internal drive fails, I'll just buy a new one and start over. In my case, it wouldn't be a big deal.
> 
> Thanks for your feedback, I appreciated it.


I'm pretty sure that those $99 Premieres are strictly $19.95 per month every month for eternity and that's the only option. You have to have paid full price, or at least bought before that promotion started late last fall in order to qualify to buy lifetime.

It's discussed in detail elsewhere on this site in a thread or two or three for people with more disposable income than I have.


----------



## gwsat

unitron said:


> That old HP/Compaq should work as the Tivo's computer just fine and you can get that new desktop for yourself. (Giving the TiVo its own computer is one thing, giving it the best one in the house, well that *is* ridiculous)


That's good idea. I installed TiVo Desktop on the HP/Compaq yesterday but it couldn't find my S3. I suspect that was because TiVo Server was still running on my MBA. If I exit from the TiVo Server app now running on the MBA should the TiVo Desktop running on the HP/Compaq then be able to find the S3 and connect to it? If I could do that, it just might solve my problem.


----------



## gwsat

unitron said:


> I'm pretty sure that those $99 Premieres are strictly $19.95 per month every month for eternity and that's the only option. You have to have paid full price, or at least bought before that promotion started late last fall in order to qualify to buy lifetime.
> 
> It's discussed in detail elsewhere on this site in a thread or two or three for people with more disposable income than I have.


After I saw your post I checked the Amazon listing for the Premiere again and can confirm that you are right. To get the $83.99 price for the Premiere, the buyer has to signup for a $19.99 a month subscription for a minimum of one year. Fortunately, my S3 should serve me well for the foreseeable future so I am in no hurry to get a Premiere.


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## ThreeSoFar

gwsat said:


> I am quite comfortable with my decision to add a WD eSATA 1TB drive to my S3. It was cheap, easy to do, and quintupled my storage capacity. The drawback, of course, is that if my S3's 4.5 year old internal drive fails, I will lose everything on both drives.


Frankly, despite the age of the drive, I would bet that the odds of the brand new external drive failing in some way are better than that of the internal drive failing--they may be easy, they're just not reliable. Any such failure may similarly result in losing all of the recordings.


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## ThreeSoFar

gwsat said:


> After I saw your post I checked the Amazon listing for the Premiere again and can confirm that you are right. To get the $83.99 price for the Premiere, the buyer has to signup for a $19.99 a month subscription for a minimum of one year. Fortunately, my S3 should serve me well for the foreseeable future so I am in no hurry to get a Premiere.


If you've had TiVos before, you should have the upgrade offers, right? Or are you trying to beat that $470 lifetimed S4 price?

The 2TB upgrade is trivially easy, getting an XL is silly. Though maybe the nicer remote it gives you is worth its $50 cost or whatever, separately.


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## gwsat

ThreeSoFar said:


> Frankly, despite the age of the drive, I would bet that the odds of the brand new external drive failing in some way are better than that of the internal drive failing--they may be easy, they're just not reliable. Any such failure may similarly result in losing all of the recordings.


I don't disagree that my S3's external drive could fail before the internal drive does but, as noted, if it does, I'll just buy another one and go from there. Fortunately, as you know, drives don't cost very much any more. I have used external drives for many years with many computers and they have proved to be just as reliable as internal drives.



ThreeSoFar said:


> If you've had TiVos before, you should have the upgrade offers, right? Or are you trying to beat that $470 lifetimed S4 price?
> 
> The 2TB upgrade is trivially easy, getting an XL is silly. Though maybe the nicer remote it gives you is worth its $50 cost or whatever, separately.


I have had TiVos since an S1 I bought in 2000. Upon mature reflection, I agree that the XL probably isn't cost effective because, as mentioned above, disc storage is ridiculously cheap these days. Also, I have used both the Premiere and XL remotes; in my HT setup at least, I didn't see any significant difference between them.

I suspect that TiVo's offer to existing customers of $470 for a Premiere with a lifetime subscription is likely to be as good as I can do and I may go for it. I am nearly certain, though, that if I upgrade its storage, it will be with another WD eSATA 1TB drive. Sorry about that.


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## unitron

gwsat said:


> That's good idea. I installed TiVo Desktop on the HP/Compaq yesterday but it couldn't find my S3. I suspect that was because TiVo Server was still running on my MBA. If I exit from the TiVo Server app now running on the MBA should the TiVo Desktop running on the HP/Compaq then be able to find the S3 and connect to it? If I could do that, it just might solve my problem.


I get out of my depth when you introduce Apple products into the mix.

My computer and my Tivo's computer are both running TiVo Desktop on XP Home, and both can see both of our S2s, and both S2s can see both of them, so maybe your situation is a Beacon/Bonjour thing.

Or maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about and somebody else here will be kind enough to enlighten us both.

Can your Mac and the Carly Fiorina special see each other on the network all okie-dokie?


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## gwsat

unitron said:


> I get out of my depth when you introduce Apple products into the mix.
> 
> My computer and my Tivo's computer are both running TiVo Desktop on XP Home, and both can see both of our S2s, and both S2s can see both of them, so maybe your situation is a Beacon/Bonjour thing.
> 
> Or maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about and somebody else here will be kind enough to enlighten us both.
> 
> Can your Mac and the Carly Fiorina special see each other on the network all okie-dokie?


Before I retired, I was an IT professional and worked exclusively in Windows shops. Even before I retired, though, I shifted to Mac at home. I have had the desktop HP/Compaq I mentioned earlier for a long time. Over time it has become filled with a lot of garbage so today I am reformatting the disc in preparation for reinstalling XP. I hated to do to do it because I am going to have to relearn how to reconfigure it to find my network, among other things. The Carley Fiorina desktop and all of my Steve Jobs gear have always been able to communicate just fine so I am confident I can get there again.

If worst comes to worst, I'll buy a Mac Mini and another copy of VMware Fusion and install Windows 7 on it. The desktop is so old and slow and my uses for it so modest, an XP reinstall seemed to make more sense than Windows 7. I'll post again when I finally, somehow, have TiVo Desktop running on a desktop machine.


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## richsadams

ThreeSoFar said:


> Frankly, despite the age of the drive, I would bet that the odds of the brand new external drive failing in some way are better than that of the internal drive failing--they may be easy, they're just not reliable. Any such failure may similarly result in losing all of the recordings.


That's why external drives have a one-year warranty and OEM/internal drives have a three-year warranty. Externals often use the very same drive, however there are more things to go wrong (chipsets, bridge, etc.) with an external, not to mention they can be subject to more "abuse" (dropping, tipping over, etc.) depending on their application.


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## gwsat

Rich, unitron, and ThreeSoFar -- I really appreciate the suggestions each of you has made. Fortunately, it looks like I am setup for the foreseeable future. I reinstalled Windows XP on my ancient HP/Compaq desktop this morning and downloaded and installed the latest version of TiVo Desktop. After I entered my S3's Authorization Code, TiVo Desktop came up with its Now Playing list. I am now copying recordings from the S3 to an external 640GB drive I have connected to the desktop machine. The downloads seem to be considerably faster on the desktop than they were to my MBA. I suspect that is because there is an Ethernet cable connection between the desktop and my router,whereas the MBA connects to it wirelessly. Anyway, all seems to be going well and I couldn't have done it without you guys. Thanks again!

ThreeSoFar, keep your fingers crossed for me that both my S3's internal and external drives last until I have them backed up.


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## terabitdan

I just wanted to thank all the regular contributors on this forum for your guidence. I was able to upgrade my S3 from the original drive and a 500 GB WD DVR expander to a single 1TB WD10EURS today by following the directions.

One problem was that I had to use wdidle3.exe to set the intellipark from 8 seconds to 300 on a drive manufactured in Jan 2011. Without it the S3 just hung on the powerup screen. The drive is quiter than original and the whole family is looking forward to more free space.

The reason for my upgrade was increasing pixalation, loss of sound and sound out of sync. The drive seems to have fixed it.

Next step, adding another in the external case or just moving to Premier

Dan


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## unitron

"Take 10% off any internal hard drive. Enter promo code HDTEN at checkout. Offer valid 4/7/11 12am PDT to 4/8/11 11:59pm PDT."


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## rspad53

chris401 said:


> Just posting to mention my absolute hate and frustration for Tivo's external upgrade path. I have a Tivo HD which has been chugging along okay for some time now. This fall, I decided that life would be easier without having to worry about watching something before it got deleted. To save time (so I thought), I went with the officially supported, My Book AV DVR Expander. That is to say, I have been through five (5) My Book AV DVR Expanders, three (3) different eSATA cables, and many missed shows. It is simply not a stable situation. Using a new eSATA cable this last week, I thought I had finally solved the problem, but little did I know, all week it kept restarting only to ultimately get stuck on during live TV recently. When re-booting, it hung during start up.
> 
> I have been using tivo 2003 (not as long as some), but I'm starting to get annoyed. This is officially supported, but Tivo blames WD and WD blames Tivo, so no one can explain it and solve the problem. I haven't done the research in years, but is there any DVR alternative out there that offers the same Tivo-ease-of-use? I'm on antenna, not dish or cable or fios or uverse, so it needs to be able to handle that. I really don't have the time to build my own system. But surely by now there is a decent competitor??


I had the same problem with my 500g wd expander to my tivo hd. But i noticed that sometimes when i moved the tivo, it would reboot, even if a slight move. So then i just touched the esata where it connects on the tivo and sometimes it would reboot. I believe it is a esata cable problem and not the tivo or the expander.( i did replace the cable to no success). 
Unrelated to that problem, just this week i started having freeze ups and decided to replace the internal drive to 1tb. This was easy and solved my reboot and freeze ups.


----------



## wendysimon

rspad53 said:


> I had the same problem with my 500g wd expander to my tivo hd. But i noticed that sometimes when i moved the tivo, it would reboot, even if a slight move. So then i just touched the esata where it connects on the tivo and sometimes it would reboot. I believe it is a esata cable problem and not the tivo or the expander.( i did replace the cable to no success).
> Unrelated to that problem, just this week i started having freeze ups and decided to replace the internal drive to 1tb. This was easy and solved my reboot and freeze ups.


What drive did you buy? Price and where? I need to buy a 1tb and am overwhelmed with all the information, much of it on the sticky seems like its for drives that are no longer current. Any suggestions for a 1tb upgrade that I need to do? Thanks

Also I need to put lifetime on this box. Do you think it's a good decision to upgrade a S3 and get lifetime on it or just get a premiere? I keep reading not so great stuff on premiere and am just overwhelmed. I already have the S3. Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

wendysimon said:


> What drive did you buy? Price and where? I need to buy a 1tb and am overwhelmed with all the information, much of it on the sticky seems like its for drives that are no longer current. Any suggestions for a 1tb upgrade that I need to do? Thanks
> 
> Also I need to put lifetime on this box. Do you think it's a good decision to upgrade a S3 and get lifetime on it or just get a premiere? I keep reading not so great stuff on premiere and am just overwhelmed. I already have the S3. Thanks!


Here are your two best bets for a hard drive upgrade of your Series3...

Western Digital WD10EVDS

Western Digital WD10EARS

When it comes to TiVo the only difference between the two is that the WD10EVDS is a dedicated A/V drive and is a bit quieter. However if you want to add one more step to the upgrade process you can easily change the Auto Acoustic Management (AAM) in the WD10EARS to match that of the WD10EVCS at 128 by using HDDScan.

Everything you need to know is in the FAQ (first post). The instructions are current. Just remember to follow all of the steps exactly and you'll have a "new" TiVo in under an hour!

FWIW I wouldn't add Lifetime to your Series3 now...it's too old to justify another $300 or $400 (depending on how generous TiVo is feeling). If they were to offer the $199 lifetime special that comes up now and then, I would probably go for it.

We have both the Series3 (which I still love) and the newer Premiere XL (ours has a lifetime subscription). You can usually find TiVo Premiere's for less than $100 now. If you wanted you could put lifetime on it and easily upgrade it to 2TB's and really get your money's worth. More here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968

Me? I'd upgrade the Series3 and leave it at that.

Hope that helps!


----------



## unitron

wendysimon said:


> What drive did you buy? Price and where? I need to buy a 1tb and am overwhelmed with all the information, much of it on the sticky seems like its for drives that are no longer current. Any suggestions for a 1tb upgrade that I need to do? Thanks
> 
> Also I need to put lifetime on this box. Do you think it's a good decision to upgrade a S3 and get lifetime on it or just get a premiere? I keep reading not so great stuff on premiere and am just overwhelmed. I already have the S3. Thanks!


I'm going to jump in here and suggest that you consider getting a bigger drive, not for your Tivo, but for a computer on which you run the free version of TiVo Desktop. If it's on the same network as the TiVo, you can copy the recordings the TiVo makes over to the computer and afterwards copy them to any Tivo on your account, including the one from which you copied the show in the first place.

That way, if your TiVo hard drive goes bad, you replace it and copy back the shows you have backed up on the computer.

If the TiVo itself dies, you pick up a used one and put it on your account and copy over the shows backed up on your computer.

Once you've used Tivo Desktop to copy the shows to the computer, they're still tied to your account, but they're no longer dependent on the machine that first recorded them.

If nothing goes wrong with your Tivo, you can copy stuff to the computer, delete it from the Tivo to make room to record more stuff, and then copy it back later. I'm going through the entire season of a few shows right now without being forced to hurry up and watch something so I'll have room to record something else (like season finales) that I'd really hate not to be able to record.

Instead of buying a bracket to put 2 1TB drives into a Tivo, you can put 1 2TB drive into the computer for the price of a 1TB and maybe $30 more.


----------



## richsadams

unitron said:


> I'm going to jump in here and suggest that you consider getting a bigger drive, not for your Tivo, but for a computer on which you run the free version of TiVo Desktop. If it's on the same network as the TiVo, you can copy the recordings the TiVo makes over to the computer and afterwards copy them to any Tivo on your account, including the one from which you copied the show in the first place.
> 
> That way, if your TiVo hard drive goes bad, you replace it and copy back the shows you have backed up on the computer.
> 
> If the TiVo itself dies, you pick up a used one and put it on your account and copy over the shows backed up on your computer.
> 
> Once you've used Tivo Desktop to copy the shows to the computer, they're still tied to your account, but they're no longer dependent on the machine that first recorded them.
> 
> If nothing goes wrong with your Tivo, you can copy stuff to the computer, delete it from the Tivo to make room to record more stuff, and then copy it back later. I'm going through the entire season of a few shows right now without being forced to hurry up and watch something so I'll have room to record something else (like season finales) that I'd really hate not to be able to record.


That's certainly an option, but very complicated and unnecessary IMHO unless the OP wants to archive a lot of recordings. Also, unless the OP is on Verizon FiOS a lot of channels are copy protected preventing the transfer of recordings. A 1TB hard drive in a Series3 equals 157 HD or 1367 SD hours of recording space. If the OP needs more than that on a regular basis, then yes, transferring recordings is an limited option.

Simply put, there's no more chance of the hard drive going bad in a TiVo than in a computer. The odds of losing recordings is identical and hard drive failure is by far the primary cause of TiVo problems.



unitron said:


> Instead of buying a bracket to put 2 1TB drives into a Tivo, you can put 1 2TB drive into the computer for the price of a 1TB and maybe $30 more


 Not sure where that idea came from...maybe I missed something, but I don't think anyone is suggesting putting a 2 1TB drives in the OP's Series3. It's very easy to upgrade a TiVo Premiere (or Premiere XL) with a single 2TB hard drive (see link above).

As long as the OP is comfortable connecting a hard drive to a computer and following a few steps, upgrading a TiVo Series3 (or a Premiere) is very simple.


----------



## unitron

richsadams said:


> That's certainly an option, but very complicated and unnecessary IMHO unless the OP wants to archive a lot of recordings. Also, unless the OP is on Verizon FiOS a lot of channels are copy protected preventing the transfer of recordings. A 1TB hard drive in a Series3 equals 157 HD or 1367 SD hours of recording space. If the OP needs more than that on a regular basis, then yes, transferring recordings is an limited option.
> 
> Simply put, there's no more chance of the hard drive going bad in a TiVo than in a computer. The odds of losing recordings is identical and hard drive failure is by far the primary cause of TiVo problems.
> 
> Not sure where that idea came from...maybe I missed something, but I don't think anyone is suggesting putting a 2 1TB drives in the OP's Series3. It's very easy to upgrade a TiVo Premiere (or Premiere XL) with a single 2TB hard drive (see link above).
> 
> As long as the OP is comfortable connecting a hard drive to a computer and following a few steps, upgrading a TiVo Series3 (or a Premiere) is very simple.


Despite having had fewer Tivos for a much shorter time, I've had a lot more hard drive "corruption" with them than with computers, and with computers I have a good chance of moving the drive to a different one and recovering most if not almost all of my files, whereas with the Tivo if you sneeze to closely to it you get something like "zone map checksum error" and you're hosed.


----------



## richsadams

unitron said:


> Despite having had fewer Tivos for a much shorter time, I've had a lot more hard drive "corruption" with them than with computers, and with computers I have a good chance of moving the drive to a different one and recovering most if not almost all of my files, whereas with the Tivo if you sneeze to closely to it you get something like "zone map checksum error" and you're hosed.


Hmmm...have had most every model of TiVo for the past eight or nine years and never once had that happen. Maybe your sneezes are a little more violent than mine.


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## ThreeSoFar

richsadams said:


> Hmmm...have had most every model of TiVo for the past eight or nine years and never once had that happen. Maybe your sneezes are a little more violent than mine.


This.

Check your power, is it killing your TiVos? Are you using a UPS?


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## unitron

ThreeSoFar said:


> This.
> 
> Check your power, is it killing your TiVos? Are you using a UPS?


The house is practically littered with them.

UPSes, that is, not Tivos.

Although I do have 2 S1s and 2 S2s and it looks like I'll be getting another one soon even if only to cannibilize for parts.

Speaking of which, anybody happen to know specifically which chip(s) I'd need to transplant from one TCD649080 motherboard to another one in order to make the hard drives think they're still in the same machine so I can copy the rest of the recordings off of them?

Now that I think about it, my TiVos and UPSes and computers are probably killing my house power. 14 gauge and 15 Amp breakers only stretch so far.


----------



## lrhorer

unitron said:


> Despite having had fewer Tivos for a much shorter time, I've had a lot more hard drive "corruption" with them than with computers, and with computers I have a good chance of moving the drive to a different one and recovering most if not almost all of my files, whereas with the Tivo if you sneeze to closely to it you get something like "zone map checksum error" and you're hosed.


'Never had a TiVo hard drive fail, although the unit in the livingroom has trouble with EMI when the TV is turned on if I attach an external drive. At the same time, I've had about a dozen hard drives fail in my PC systems. Of course, the servers have a total of 30 hard drives in them, so a failure may be a bit more likely than in the TiVos, which currently only have a total of four.

I did once have a hard drive fail in a PC about six months after removing it from one of the TiVos.

P.S. - I don't know this from first-hand experience with an MFS formatted drive, but it is possible you might be able to recover from such an error using dd_rescue.


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## lrhorer

unitron said:


> Speaking of which, anybody happen to know specifically which chip(s) I'd need to transplant from one TCD649080 motherboard to another one in order to make the hard drives think they're still in the same machine so I can copy the rest of the recordings off of them?


Go over to the "other" TiVo forum. This has been discussed there previously.


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## unitron

lrhorer said:


> Go over to the "other" TiVo forum. This has been discussed there previously.


That sounds like an answer I might be able to "deal" with.

Guess I'll go check their "database".


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## bgc

I was told to post in this thread even though I have an S2DT (649080) so here goes.

Has anyone successfully used a WD Green drive in a Series 2 lately? Some of the info in this thread seems to indicate they won't work, and yet the guy on ebay (DVR_DUDE) is currently selling Series 2 upgrades that show a pic of a WD10EADS Green drive.

I'm assuming the problem was the Intellipark feature. If the WDidle3 utility is used to modify or turn off Intellipark, will the Green drives work? I'm not sure if I'd go with the AV version or the regular one but I'd like to know either way.

Thanks,
BGC


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## richsadams

bgc said:


> I was told to post in this thread even though I have an S2DT (649080) so here goes.
> 
> Has anyone successfully used a WD Green drive in a Series 2 lately? Some of the info in this thread seems to indicate they won't work, and yet the guy on ebay (DVR_DUDE) is currently selling Series 2 upgrades that show a pic of a WD10EADS Green drive.
> 
> I'm assuming the problem was the Intellipark feature. If the WDidle3 utility is used to modify or turn off Intellipark, will the Green drives work? I'm not sure if I'd go with the AV version or the regular one but I'd like to know either way.
> 
> Thanks,
> BGC


You shouldn't have any problems using a WD GP drive in your Series2. The Intellipark issue (unable to boot or reboot from the menu) ended with drives manufactured after September 15th, 2010 (and even earlier with their A/V line of drives). If you were to purchase one today it would almost certainly have been built after that and you wouldn't have to worry about adjusting it (although it's fairly simple).

With respect to WD's A/V GP drives, they have one advantage with TiVo: the AAM (Auto Acoustic Management) is set to 128, the quietest level. Other WD GP drives are set higher, but they can be adjusted to 128 by using HDDScan. (See the first post on this thread for more info.)

The drives being sold by DVR Dude will work perfectly fine.

Happy upgrading!


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## bgc

Has the excessive load/unload cycle count also been fixed or is there still a reason to use WDIdle3 to fix that?

Do the AV drives offer any other benefit since the regular drives can be set to the same AAM value? 

I see that the GP drives come with different levels of cache, is there any benefit to getting a drive with cache higher than the 8MB model?

I'll be doing the upgrade myself but I was interested to see Dvr_Dude was using the GP drives, although I'm not sure the EADS drive he listed is still available.

Thanks for the knowledge,
BGC


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## richsadams

bgc said:


> Has the excessive load/unload cycle count also been fixed or is there still a reason to use WDIdle3 to fix that?


 Unknown. However there haven't been any reported issues for a couple of years. The drives in our Series3, TiVo HD and Premiere XL have been flawless w/o adjusting the Intellipark setting. You could certainly set the timeout to the recommended five minutes (if it would mean some peace of mind) w/o any known ill effects.



bgc said:


> Do the AV drives offer any other benefit since the regular drives can be set to the same AAM value?


 No.



bgc said:


> I see that the GP drives come with different levels of cache, is there any benefit to getting a drive with cache higher than the 8MB model?


 No.

Happy upgrading!


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## jasel

I knew that it would ultimately fail, but am surprised how long it actually did function.

Having been a TiVo user for almost a decade, I've been through 3 boxes (an old Sony SVR-2000?, and 2 Series 3 boxes. The Sony was upgraded internally for greater capacity, but both Series 3s had external storage (one the official 500GB WD drive, the other a Seagate FreeAgent Pro 750GB)

I had purchased the 750 before reading of others frequent problems. Other than a very finicky cable connection it worked flawlessly for probably 3 or 4 years. The box it was attached to was manufactured prior to TiVos efforts to force the use of an 'official' expander. So it was a plug and play install.

The drive is still under warranty (unless they'll disallow it for being connected to a DVR), so my only real loss is all the programming it stored.

Despite both S3's being out of warranty, I chose to just purchase another expander rather than crack the case open. A 1TB WD My Book AV was just over $100 so it seemed like a no brainer. It also installed with almost no effort.

So, is there a question in this?

Being that both S3's have lifetime subscriptions, is there anything I should be doing to help keep these boxes healthy and running? Is there anything that can or should be done to prepare for any eventual internal drive failure? If a drive does fail, how difficult is it to replace without a previously prepared drive? (i.e. will replacing an internal drive while it is still working save me some grief down the road?)

I guess what I'm asking is not more about preserving my TiVo box, but preserving my lifetime subscriptions. Anything I should be doing other than providing adequate ventilation that will help deter any potential pitfalls, or improve the performance of my new expander or S3 boxes?

Thanks,

James


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## richsadams

jasel said:


> I knew that it would ultimately fail, but am surprised how long it actually did function.


That is really remarkable considering how many FAP's failed within days, weeks or months of being installed in the "old days". FWIW you would have had to have used the old Kickstart 62 method to install it...not quite "plug and play". 

I probably would have opted to install a 1TB internal drive to get a three year warranty (rather than the one-year warranty of the WD external drive) as well as remove the additional fail point, but hopefully your new external drive will last as long as your old one.

Hard drives are the number one reason TiVo's fail by far, however other parts like power supplies, etc. can fail over time. Just keeping the box well-ventilated and cleaned out should keep it happy. Heat is the enemy of all computers so opening TiVo and blowing out the dust that manages to get inside will keep the hard drive and other components running cool.

If your Series3's internal hard drives are original they may be nearing the end of their lifetimes. A good preventative measure would be to pull the internal drive from each one, connect it to a computer and follow the instructions on the first post to create a truncated backup of the OS. That way if/when your internal drive begins to fail you can image a new one.

If/when your internal drive fails you will still lose all of your recordings, but at least you'll have a backup with all of your cable card info, etc. At that time I would certainly consider upgrading to a 1TB internal hard drive.

FWIW I still consider the original Series3 the pinnacle of TiVo engineering. Ours still performs flawlessly.


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## TheLongshot

Cmon, it can't have failed already...

The 1GB EARS that I installed in January is now showing signs of trouble. Yesterday, I turned on the TV and I had a gray screen. I rebooted and was able to play the recordings, but the menus were sluggish. Today it was the same thing, and after a while it froze and rebooted. I'm wondering if it was the warm weather that had caused problems, since I found out it was 80 degrees in the house.

I'm currently scanning it with the WD tools. The drive does feel a bit warm to the touch...


----------



## unitron

TheLongshot said:


> Cmon, it can't have failed already...
> 
> The 1GB EARS that I installed in January is now showing signs of trouble. Yesterday, I turned on the TV and I had a gray screen. I rebooted and was able to play the recordings, but the menus were sluggish. Today it was the same thing, and after a while it froze and rebooted. I'm wondering if it was the warm weather that had caused problems, since I found out it was 80 degrees in the house.
> 
> I'm currently scanning it with the WD tools. The drive does feel a bit warm to the touch...


I'm pretty sure the 2TB EARS is one of those "advanced format" 4K sector types, is the 1TB?

If so, could that be confusing a 512-expecting Tivo?

(I stand ready to demonstrate my ingnorance on a variety of other topics as well, upon request)


----------



## richsadams

TheLongshot said:


> Cmon, it can't have failed already...
> 
> The 1GB EARS that I installed in January is now showing signs of trouble. Yesterday, I turned on the TV and I had a gray screen. I rebooted and was able to play the recordings, but the menus were sluggish. Today it was the same thing, and after a while it froze and rebooted. I'm wondering if it was the warm weather that had caused problems, since I found out it was 80 degrees in the house.
> 
> I'm currently scanning it with the WD tools. The drive does feel a bit warm to the touch...


80 degree ambient temp shouldn't have caused it to overheat. But it does sound like a hard drive issue. Did you get a chance to test it prior to the original install? It's possible that it had/has bad sectors and that TiVo is now trying to write to them. Ugh.

How does it run when nothing but your TV is attached? (No coax, WiFi adapter/Ethernet, etc.)

Have you tried running any of the Kickstarts?

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

Have you tried installing the original hard drive for a couple of days to see how it goes?

If the original runs fine and you're able to get the 1TB (assuming you meant 1TB, not 1GB ) up and running again I would probably look to save any recordings via KMTTG or TiVo Desktop, etc., put the original drive back in and get an RMA from WD. You can process the exchange on your own by going to the Western Digital Product Replacement site OR you can call Western Digital Customer Support at 1-800-ASK-WDC (275-4932) to have an agent process the exchange.

It's unfortunate but these things happen. Let us know how it goes.


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## richsadams

unitron said:


> I'm pretty sure the 2TB EARS is one of those "advanced format" 4K sector types, is the 1TB?
> 
> If so, could that be confusing a 512-expecting Tivo?
> 
> (I stand ready to demonstrate my ingnorance on a variety of other topics as well, upon request)


Luckily that's not a worry for TiVo (or other Unix/Linux/Apple) applications.


----------



## unitron

unitron said:


> SNIP
> 
> (I stand ready to demonstrate my ingnorance on a variety of other topics as well, upon request)


and apparently on of the things I stand ready to demonstrate my ignorance on is how to spell "ignorance".


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## TheLongshot

So far, I haven't had time to do much other than run the WD full scan (which it passed).

I'm going to put the original drive in tonight so that I can get some recording done. I won't really be able to fool with it until after the weekend.


----------



## Mahty

Because I suspect some bad sectors on a year-old WD15EVDS, I've been trying to run WD Data Lifeguard Diagnostics for Windows on the drive. Since the Extended Test will take about 14 hours on my setup, I've been running it overnight. However, twice now when I check on the progress in the morning, I find my Windows XP environment to be stuck in "Windows is shutting down ..." So, what happened?

I suspect that this frozen state is somehow the result of the WD Diagnostics tool finding its first bad sector (sometime after the 12-hour mark). At this point I suspect that the tool is prompting the user for instructions on what to do about the bad sector. I'm not there to respond, and so perhaps the program timesout and, for some reason, a shutdown begins.

If this suspicion is true, how do I get the Extended Test to run to completion (and repair bad sectors along the way) without me having to babysit the program for 14 hours?

I've run the analogous Seagate tool on a Seagate drive and remember that that tool will ask the user beforehand if it should repair any and all bad sectors that are found.

Also, I'm not a Windows person, so how do I set my Windows environment to keep my user session continuously alive (i.e., to not lapse to the user re-login screen) and to keep the screen saver from kicking in? Perhaps this is contributing to my problem, or at least masking some potential insight into my frozen "Windows is shutting down ..." problem.


----------



## richsadams

Mahty said:


> Because I suspect some bad sectors on a year-old WD15EVDS, I've been trying to run WD Data Lifeguard Diagnostics for Windows on the drive. Since the Extended Test will take about 14 hours on my setup, I've been running it overnight. However, twice now when I check on the progress in the morning, I find my Windows XP environment to be stuck in "Windows is shutting down ..." So, what happened?
> 
> I suspect that this frozen state is somehow the result of the WD Diagnostics tool finding its first bad sector (sometime after the 12-hour mark). At this point I suspect that the tool is prompting the user for instructions on what to do about the bad sector. I'm not there to respond, and so perhaps the program timesout and, for some reason, a shutdown begins.
> 
> If this suspicion is true, how do I get the Extended Test to run to completion (and repair bad sectors along the way) without me having to babysit the program for 14 hours?
> 
> I've run the analogous Seagate tool on a Seagate drive and remember that that tool will ask the user beforehand if it should repair any and all bad sectors that are found.
> 
> Also, I'm not a Windows person, so how do I set my Windows environment to keep my user session continuously alive (i.e., to not lapse to the user re-login screen) and to keep the screen saver from kicking in? Perhaps this is contributing to my problem, or at least masking some potential insight into my frozen "Windows is shutting down ..." problem.


That is odd behavior. You might want to try running WD Lifeguard in DOS instead. Either way, it's simply a diagnostic program. It doesn't effect sector repairs, etc., only reports back as to what it's found.

Although it's a bit dated, here's the "owners manual" including error codes, etc.:

http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/library/other/2779-701022.pdf

There are other programs that will diagnose and try to make repairs. SpinRite is probably the best but at about $90 it's pretty cost prohibitive unless you're in the business of diagnosing hard drive issues.

I don't know what symptoms you're seeing, but if you're convinced that you have a bad drive you can get an RMA. You can process the exchange on your own by going to the Western Digital Product Replacement site OR you can call Western Digital Customer Support at 1-800-ASK-WDC (275-4932) to have an agent process the exchange.

Did you happen to run any of TiVo's built-in diagnostics before you pulled the drive? Sometimes they can correct data corruption and/or isolate bad sectors (as long as there aren't too many).

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

Hope that helps and best of luck!


----------



## Mahty

richsadams said:


> That is odd behavior. <snip> Hope that helps and best of luck!


Thanks for the quick response. I suspect a bad sector problem because of recurring stuttering and pixelation issues when watching recordings made over certain portions of the drive. As long as the number of sectors is not growing (as it had been with an old Seagate drive I had), my bad sector number may remain within the manufacturer-allowable limit of bad sectors, i.e., probably not enough bad sectors for WD to grant me an RMA. In any case, I just wanted to try to clean up (remap) any such bad sectors with WinDLG.

I'm using the latest version of WD Data Lifeguard for Windows (WinDLG v1.22). The accompanying documentation says that the Extended Test "is not a destructive test unless users select repair function when bad sectors are detected." Perhaps this repair option is not available at the time each bad sector is detected, but rather only after the entire Extended Test has been performed and a summary of all bad sectors is available. If only I could get to this point without the machine freezing on the "Windows is shutting down ..." screen.


----------



## Stuxnet

Mahty said:


> Because I suspect some bad sectors on a year-old WD15EVDS, I've been trying to run WD Data Lifeguard Diagnostics for Windows on the drive. Since the Extended Test will take about 14 hours on my setup, I've been running it overnight. However, twice now when I check on the progress in the morning, I find my Windows XP environment to be stuck in "Windows is shutting down ..." So, what happened?.


Are you using any power saver/sleep/hibernate setting on your PC? Turn off all settings that puts your PC to sleep or idles the HDD on "inactivity", or better, use a "high performance" power setting.

Or you could run the DOS version...


----------



## TheLongshot

Just as an update, I actually decided to put the 1TB drive back in, and after getting left on the whole weekend, it behaved just fine.

Not sure what the issue was and I probably will run more diagnostics on it at some point to make sure it isn't a problem.


----------



## richsadams

TheLongshot said:


> Just as an update, I actually decided to put the 1TB drive back in, and after getting left on the whole weekend, it behaved just fine.
> 
> Not sure what the issue was and I probably will run more diagnostics on it at some point to make sure it isn't a problem.


Thanks for the update...that's good news. You might want to try running some of the Kickstarts (KS54 & KS57 in particular) to see what happens:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

Let us know how things go.


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## nooneuknow

Weaknees is back to selling 4TB Premieres (2TB int. +2TB ext.).

http://www.weaknees.com/tivo-premiere-hd-dvr-series4.php

Perhaps us DIY types can figure out how they are doing it?

You still lurking amongst us, Comer?


----------



## sasmps

Riches... I was browsing the harddrive list for internal 1GB upgrades, and I can not find the recommended drives (Hitachi Cinamaster or Deskstar). I am hunting a drive i can use WinMFS on via usb connection (usb to sata).

I am trying to avoid all the intellipark stuff, i do not have an available sata connection on the motherboard. 

The list is really getting skinney... suggestions?


----------



## dwit

sasmps said:


> Riches... I was browsing the harddrive list for internal 1GB upgrades, and I can not find the recommended drives (Hitachi Cinamaster or Deskstar). I am hunting a drive i can use WinMFS on via usb connection (usb to sata).
> 
> I am trying to avoid all the intellipark stuff, i do not have an available sata connection on the motherboard.
> 
> The list is really getting skinney... suggestions?


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145475

The Hitachi drives on the "list" are rather outdated by far, by now. They were some of the first 1TB drives to hit the market "back then". They were 7200 rpm drives that were/could be "tuned" to run more quietly. That said, I installed the "tuned" Deskstar version in my Tivo HD 3.5 years ago. Very shortly thereafter, I also added one of the early(2nd generation?) WD 1 TB green drives, externally. They are both still (quietly) humming right along to this day.

Hitachi now also makes "green" drives. I have read that the 2 TB drive works fine in Tivo units. There is also a 1 TB version. To upgrade with the 2 TB drive, you will need to use the JMFS program. The JMFS program basically uses your original Tivo HD or Premiere drive, and clones it onto the new drive. For the 1 TB drive, you can still use the WinMfs program. Both of these drives are surely at least as capable(for use in Tivo) as the older drives on the list, and almost as surely, moreso.

Just missed getting the 2 TB drive for $75($70 after rebate) from Newegg. $80 is still a good price though, and it has a 5 year warranty. (3 year for the 1 TB drive though). Unfortunately, the 1 TB drive cost almost as much, in total, as the 2 TB drive at Newegg.

You might also check Amazon.com for prices on the green drives from both Hitachi and WD.

Hopefully, I'm not passing along any misinformation here. Remember, due diligence.

I'm looking at the 2 TB Hitachi when I eventually go to a single 2 TB internal unit.

Good luck.


----------



## bendersae

About 5 months ago I put one of the Hitachi Cinemastar drives in my Tivo HD. It's the 7k1000.C model.

First off, it was very noisy. Constant seek noise and the AAM settings in the drive were disabled so no modifications available.

Second, in the last month or so the TiVo started rebooting infrequently but more and more often. Eventually it wouldn't be able to stay running for more than 15-20 minutes.

I opened it up, cleaned out the dust and checked the power supply. All looked good, but still getting reboots. I eventually put the original drive back in and it's been stable for 24 hours.

I did the Kickstart 57, no issues detected. I've done some basic drive integrity checks (limited as I'm on a Mac), and it all looks good.

Without any proof of an issue, does anyone think I could send this back to Hitachi? I'm ready to do that or purchase a new drive. Probably the WD10EVDS.


----------



## Stuxnet

bendersae said:


> About 5 months ago I put one of the Hitachi Cinemastar drives in my Tivo HD. It's the 7k1000.C model.
> 
> Without any proof of an issue, does anyone think I could send this back to Hitachi?


Might be better to have "proof". Have you run their Drive Fitness Test?


----------



## bendersae

Stuxnet said:


> Might be better to have "proof". Have you run their Drive Fitness Test?


It doesn't run on Mac. I've only got Mac's and laptops, so I can only access this drive via SATA-USB enclosure. I'm running the tool through VirtualBox with the drive attached in raw disk mode, but I'm not sure it's actually testing anything as Virtualbox is probably doing some abstracting of the hardware.


----------



## Stuxnet

bendersae said:


> It doesn't run on Mac.


There is a bootable CD diskette image on that link I gave. Can your Mac boot from CD? Does it have SATA connection?


----------



## bendersae

Stuxnet said:


> There is a bootable CD diskette image on that link I gave. Can your Mac boot from CD? Does it have SATA connection?


It's an iMac and the hard drive isn't really a user serviceable part. You've got to remove the glass and the LCD panel to get at it.

The bootable CD image is what I'm running in virtualbox.


----------



## richsadams

sasmps said:


> Riches... I was browsing the harddrive list for internal 1GB upgrades, and I can not find the recommended drives (Hitachi Cinamaster or Deskstar). I am hunting a drive i can use WinMFS on via usb connection (usb to sata).
> 
> I am trying to avoid all the intellipark stuff, i do not have an available sata connection on the motherboard.
> 
> The list is really getting skinney... suggestions?


Assume you meant to say 1TB upgrade. If so here are your two best bets for a hard drive upgrade of your TiVo...

Western Digital WD10EVDS

Western Digital WD10EARS

When it comes to TiVo the only difference between the two is that the WD10EVDS is a dedicated A/V drive and is a bit quieter. However if you want to add one more step to the upgrade process you can easily change the Auto Acoustic Management (AAM) in the WD10EARS to match that of the WD10EVCS at 128 by using HDDScan.

If the drive is manufactured after Sep 15, 2010 (and almost any you'd order now would be) there may be no worries about the Intellipark boot issue however there are reports that some will still need it adjusted (per the faq) using wdidle3.exe.

You can use winMFS and a USB adapter or a USB dock for your upgrade...just takes a little longer than with a direct SATA connection.

Everything you need to know is in the FAQ (first post). The instructions are current. Just remember to follow all of the steps exactly and you'll have a "new" TiVo in under an hour!

Happy upgrading!


----------



## bgc

During normal operation of the tivo, isn't the WD Intellipark feature a moot point since the tivo is constantly recording the 2 live channel buffers so the HDD is never idle long enough for the Intellipark feature to unload the heads?

Thanks,
BGC


----------



## nooneuknow

bgc said:


> During normal operation of the tivo, isn't the WD Intellipark feature a moot point since the tivo is constantly recording the 2 live channel buffers so the HDD is never idle long enough for the Intellipark feature to unload the heads?
> 
> Thanks,
> BGC


Yes, and no. The factory (WD) setting of 8 seconds, -can- cause the TiVo to hang during a soft reboot, or after a software update initiates one. There's been some reports that the most recently manufactured drives don't do this, but some vendors are still shipping old stock, so you'd have to skim the threads on this matter and figure out the mfg date cut-off point. If you don't mind having to take the drive back out of the TiVo to change the setting, you can just try for blind-luck.

The IntelliPark feature can serve no purpose on a TiVo. I have checked all the drives that I had removed from my TiVo HDs and Premieres, and they were all set to "disabled" (/D).

Some here advocate not disabling it, but instead say to use the /S300 switch, which sets it to the maximum timeout of 5 minutes (the factory setting from WD is 8 seconds). This in a sense does "disable" it, as there is never a time period during TiVo boot or operation where it would have a chance to kick in (unless, perhaps, some sort of system lockup would stop the I/O to the disk).

As I always recommend, make sure to grab the MOST RECENT release revision, directly from WD. There are a lot of older versions floating around that are likely to give you errors if you use them. The one I use is v1.05.

The "WDIDLE3.EXE" (tool for adjusting the IDLE3 timeout period) is what you need. It runs off bootable media, but not in Windows. If you have your SATA ports set to RAID or any "enhanced" mode, you may need to change the mode to get the tool to work.

My method to set the AAM & idle timer in one reboot, is to obtain the Hitachi Feature Tool (must be v2.12), make a bootable floppy, CD, or USB stick with it, and just add the WDIDLE3.EXE file to it once the HFT bootable media builder is done. I have found that the HFT software allows changing all the settings without having to change your BIOS settings, and then change them back. It apparently loads some drivers that a generic bootable media wouldn't have.

Then you can boot, using the HFT, set the AAM (which some advocate setting to 128, but I prefer disabled, as if gives a slight performance boost, and the drive seeking noises are quiet enough for me), and then exit the HFT utility to a command prompt to run WDIDLE3.EXE. Use the /? switch to get the command list, and use the /R switch to report the current settings, etc.

MAKE SURE YOUR CAPS LOCK IS ON WHEN USING WDIDLE3.EXE.


----------



## msehnert

I have an as yet unused Tivo 1TB expander drive. Is is possible to "mirror" or "clone" this drive to a non expander 1TB external drive so that the drive becomes an expander drive?


----------



## richsadams

nooneuknow said:


> ... but there have been minority reports of the opposite.


Links? TIA.


----------



## richsadams

msehnert said:


> I have an as yet unused Tivo 1TB expander drive. Is is possible to "mirror" or "clone" this drive to a non expander 1TB external drive so that the drive becomes an expander drive?


Welcome to the forum. Sorry, the short answer is no. TiVo recognizes external drives by the exact hard drive model number, not by anything on the drive itself or the enclosure it comes in.


----------



## msehnert

Thanks for the response. If the HD model number is the key requirement, then how is it possible to convert a regular drive into an Tivo extender drive by installing it into the TIVO and converting it. I have seen methods for doing this on the net. I just don't want to void my Premiere XL extended warranties by opening the case. It is just annoying to pay a 50% or more premium for a extender drive.


----------



## nooneuknow

richsadams said:


> Links? TIA.


It wasn't worth the effort (my effort) to dig them up (but I do know they are out there, somewhere). So, to keep you happy, I edited the post with regards to that specific point.

I know you have the specifics on the mfg dates (one of your pet projects). Why didn't you just post that data as an adjunct?

I really didn't care for how people were taking that data and using it as an excuse to return non-defective drives, rather than just change the setting. This sentiment didn't factor into my prior post. But, I did recall it just now.


----------



## bgc

I got a WD10EARS for my S2DT. Can I prepare the drive by hooking it up to an SATA port on my PC and when finished hook up the IDE to SATA adapter when I install it? 

Or do I have to use the adapter while I am preparing the drive?

I haven't made a final decision but I'm leaning toward using WinMFS to prep the drive.

Thanks,
BGC


----------



## richsadams

nooneuknow said:


> It wasn't worth the effort (my effort) to dig them up (but I do know they are out there, somewhere). So, to keep you happy, I edited the post with regards to that specific point.
> 
> I know you have the specifics on the mfg dates (one of your pet projects). Why didn't you just post that data as an adjunct?
> 
> I really didn't care for how people were taking that data and using it as an excuse to return non-defective drives, rather than just change the setting. This sentiment didn't factor into my prior post. But, I did recall it just now.


Okay...but IIRC there aren't any reports about Intellipark problems on Western Digital GP drives manufactured after September 15th (the specific date seems to be September 13th, but the 15th is easier to remember) on the TCF...that would have been a big red flag. It's possible I missed one though. It would be important to find out more if that's the case however...misinformation isn't a good thing and if there are _any_ cases I wouldn't want to steer anyone wrong.

I don't doubt a couple of folks may have returned drives that were manufactured prior to that to avoid running wdidle3.exe, but I don't think it was very prevalent. Most just ran the program for the year or so that there was an issue.

Fortunately I don't recall seeing anyone actually post about the issue for a couple of months now; just a few asking about it after reading the FAQ.

I'll to reach out to bkdtv to see if he agrees that it's time to update the FAQ now.


----------



## richsadams

msehnert said:


> Thanks for the response. If the HD model number is the key requirement, then how is it possible to convert a regular drive into an Tivo extender drive by installing it into the TIVO and converting it.
> 
> I have seen methods for doing this on the net. I just don't want to void my Premiere XL extended warranties by opening the case. It is just annoying to pay a 50% or more premium for a extender drive.


If you mean is it possible to use a non-TiVo verified drive as an expansion drive, the answer is yes if you do it using a program called winMFS. A new external drive can be married to the internal drive at the time of an upgrade (which requires removing the internal drive from TiVo). Non-approved drives just don't work via plug and play. Details can be found in the FAQ (first post on this thread), specifically Section IV. (Note not all external drives will work).

So the bottom line is that if you don't want to open your TiVo the only option you have to add more recording space is to use the TiVo Verified Western Digital My DVR Expander or WD My Book A/V DVR Expander.


----------



## richsadams

bgc said:


> I got a WD10EARS for my S2DT. Can I prepare the drive by hooking it up to an SATA port on my PC and when finished hook up the IDE to SATA adapter when I install it?
> 
> Or do I have to use the adapter while I am preparing the drive?
> 
> I haven't made a final decision but I'm leaning toward using WinMFS to prep the drive.
> 
> Thanks,
> BGC


The connection to your computer during the upgrade shouldn't have any effect on the upgrade itself.


----------



## nooneuknow

richsadams said:


> Okay...but IIRC there aren't any reports about Intellipark problems on Western Digital GP drives manufactured after September 15th (the specific date seems to be September 13th, but the 15th is easier to remember) on the TCF... <snip>
> I'll to reach out to bkdtv to see if he agrees that it's time to update the FAQ now.


Sounds good. Is That September 13/15th 2009, or 2010? Is it all-inclusive of all models of WD GP and AV-GP drives? My most recent purchase from NewEgg, was a WD20EARS drive, which had a manufacture date of Feb 10, 2010. It was only about two months ago that I ordered/received that drive.

If I do run across the posts, which I am fairly certain I saw, but not necessarily on TCF (may have been on an AV forum, The SD forum, or the one that we don't speak of here), I will posts links to any forum, except that last one, which we don't speak of here (to avoid being banned).

I feel it is DEFINITELY time (past due) for a major overhaul of the base FAQ, in regards to getting rid of old information, and adding new information. Some link updates and additional links would be nice too.

Thank you, Rich, for all that you have done here on the TCF, and I look forward to more of the same.


----------



## dlfl

nooneuknow said:


> Sounds good. Is That September 13/15th 2010, or 2011? .........


 Don't think any drives have been produced in September 2011.


----------



## Stuxnet

nooneuknow said:


> I feel it is DEFINITELY time (past due) for a major overhaul of the base FAQ, in regards to getting rid of old information, and adding new information. Some link updates and additional links would be nice too.


So... are you volunteering for the task? Are you a producer...or are you a consumer?


----------



## cpalcott

I have a Series 3 that crapped out (freezes, restarts, etc.). So, I want to do an upgrade to a 1TB drive. I have a series 3 image in .iso, .tbk, and .msf formats. I have a Windows 7 (32 bit) desktop with empty sata ports and sata power ports. I don't want to add any external drives to the tivo, just a new internal drive. Which drive is going to give me the least amount of trouble? Would a WD10EARS fit the bill? Also, what software should I use and are their specific instructions when not backing up from the original tivo drive? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## ThAbtO

WinMFS is the easiest to use. With the others, you need to type in long Linux commands.


----------



## dartagnan_007

Guys I need some help. My Tivo Series 3 TCD648250B has been rebooting in the middle of recordings for the last couple of weeks so I bought a New WD 1TB Harddrive Model WD10EARS to put in it. The drive that is going bad is not the origianl drive but a an upgraded 750Gb drive I got from Weaknees back in 2006. The new Drive Arrived yesterday so I went to work to get it setup. The first problem I had was that WinMFS would not see the drive that came out of the TiVo no matter what I did. Both Drivves were connected directly to the Motherboard with SATA cables and power. I still have the original drive that came with the TiVo so I tried it and still WinMFS would not see it. SO I downloaded MFSLive and booted with it. I went back to trying to backup the drive that is going bad. It would run the command but tell me the destination drive was not big enough. I tired both with recordings and without using the command generator on the site. Finally I wne tback to the origianl drive and I was able to get it to copy over to the new drive in just a few minutes without recordings. I pout the drive in the TiVo and it booted up. The problem then was that it would reboot about every 5 minutes. I finally pulled the cable cards and unplugged the tuning adaptor and it booted and stayed booted. I plugged the cable cards back in one at a time and it saw them no problem but I need to get the cable company to resend the authorixation signal which I will do today. I cleared and deleted everyting and repeated guided setup. I have not pluged the tuning adaptor in yet as the TiVo is still running firmware version 8.0 something. I had the Tivo do a Download last night as I went to bed to pull in the all the guide and hopefully the update. When I got up this morning firmware was still at 8.0 so I rebooted to see if it needed to be applied. After reboot still no update. So before I left for work I forced it to connect to TiVo hoping when I get home it will be updated.

So here are my questions:
Since the previous Drive had all the updates will the Tivo ever get the Update?
Do I have to activate the cable cards to get the Update?
Is there anything I could do to backup the 750Gb harddrive?

Thanks for your Help,
Scott

UPDATE:
Went home at lunch and software was still at 8.0 so I rebooted the TiVO and it came up and said preparing update. It rebooted and it is now at the point were it is installing the update and it says it can take an hour or more so I left it to update and went back to work. Hopefully when I get home it will be fully updated and I get get the Cable company to reauthorize the cards and tuning adaptor over the phone.


----------



## Neenahboy

Hi all,

I'll probably be upgrading my TiVo HD in the near future, ideally with new 1TB internal and external drives using WinMFS. Assume we're still limited to 1TB on each?

I'd be buying copies of Win7 Home Premium and Fusion to run it as a VM on my MacBook Pro. So...if I were to buy two 1TB WD10EVDS drives, an Antec MX-1 enclosure for the external, a Thermaltake dual drive dock, and the Torx screwdrivers, I should be set to go, correct?


----------



## dwit

Neenahboy said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'll probably be upgrading my TiVo HD in the near future, ideally with new 1TB internal and external drives using WinMFS. Assume we're still limited to 1TB on each?
> 
> I'd be buying copies of Win7 Home Premium and Fusion to run it as a VM on my MacBook Pro. So...if I were to buy two 1TB WD10EVDS drives, an Antec MX-1 enclosure for the external, a Thermaltake dual drive dock, and the Torx screwdrivers, I should be set to go, correct?


The latest wisdom is to now avoid the dual drive set up for a Tivo HD with a capacity of 2 TB. The way to go now is with a single 2 TB hard drive. The pertinent thread with all the info you need is here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179

Please note that this new procedure/program was first developed for the new Tivo Premiere but was later found to work also for expanding the capacity for the Tivo HD. I mention this because you will probably notice some references/links to the Premiere upgrade threads, and the procedures are pretty much the same except for one important difference. The difference is, for the final step(Supersize step), for the Tivo HD, this step must be done using the WinMfs program instead of using the new JMFS program for the Supersize step. Otherwise everything else is pretty much identical.

Another reason I mentioned the Premiere thread is because in one of the upgrade threads(Tivo HD or Premiere), it is noted that these *dual drive docks(including the Thermaltake Duet) do not work* with the new procedure. I believe they probably don't work with the older WinMfs procedure also. Again, the drives must be connected, individually, to the motherboard, via SATA connections, or the computer via USB connection. (I could be wrong about the dual drive dock not working with the winmfs program as the issue was with Linux, which is what JMFS runs.)

Having said all that, my Tivo HD has been running smoothly for 3.5 years in internal/external 2 TB capacity(including the Antec MX-1 enclosure), upgraded with the older Winmfs procedure. I recently had a scare with the set up, but all turned out to be well. Still brushed up on the new method for the time that will eventually come to be that I will use it.

Good luck.


----------



## nooneuknow

dlfl said:


> Don't think any drives have been produced in September 2011.


Oops. Fixed that. Must have posted after watching too much TiVo...


----------



## nooneuknow

Stuxnet said:


> So... are you volunteering for the task? Are you a producer...or are you a consumer?


Somebody else in is charge of the FAQ. I couldn't take over, even if I wanted to. All the rest of us can do is ask for an update and/or submit what we would like added and/or updated.

Nice attitude. Maybe you should read the FAQ sticky posts at the beginning of this thread, then read ALL the posts from there on through here (yes, I have done so), then decide if you want to be judgmental of others who merely post that the FAQ sticky posts are outdated and could use an update.


----------



## richsadams

nooneuknow said:


> Sounds good. Is That September 13/15th 2009, or 2010? Is it all-inclusive of all models of WD GP and AV-GP drives?


September 15, 2010 and includes all WD GP and GP A/V drives. FWIW based on a number of posts the GP A/V drives appear to have been "updated" earlier, some much earlier (March 2010). But for ease of reference, September 15, 2010 seems to be as safe as it gets.


----------



## richsadams

cpalcott said:


> I have a Series 3 that crapped out (freezes, restarts, etc.). So, I want to do an upgrade to a 1TB drive. I have a series 3 image in .iso, .tbk, and .msf formats. I have a Windows 7 (32 bit) desktop with empty sata ports and sata power ports. I don't want to add any external drives to the tivo, just a new internal drive. Which drive is going to give me the least amount of trouble? Would a WD10EARS fit the bill? Also, what software should I use and are their specific instructions when not backing up from the original tivo drive? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.


Recommended drives:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8495715#post8495715

As ThAbtO mentioned, wimMFS is your best bet. Follow all of the instructions in the FAQ (first post of this thread - specifically Section V, #22a or 22b) and you should be good to go.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## richsadams

dartagnan_007 said:


> Guys I need some help.


Glad to hear things are getting sorted out. When TiVo starts housekeeping its priority is to get the program guide up and running so it's useful ASAP. Updates, etc. follow. Based on what you saw it s/b running v11.0k when you get back home.

You'll need to get the cable cards paired...hopefully your cableco will allow you to read the three numbers for each card over the phone rather than insist on a truck roll. Remember to initiate them one at a time, cable card #1 first (bottom slot) and then cable card #2 otherwise it won't work.

With respect to the Weaknees drive, I've seen some reports of members being able to upgrade without any problems. However I've seen more posts about people having problems like yours. Most often folks are able to copy the content over but then TiVo throws the "External hard drive missing" error, even though they did not have an external drive. So most end up doing exactly what you did. I've never run any diagnostics on the Weaknees drives but they are obviously doing things differently than we are here.

Hope all is right when you get home. If you happened to have set up your account for online Season Passes and such, TiVo will repopulate that data at least. If not, you might want to do that to save some time in the future.

https://www3.tivo.com/apps/login/sh...9474!9001!9002?cams_original_url=/apps/spm.do

Best of luck and let us know how things go.


----------



## richsadams

Neenahboy said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'll probably be upgrading my TiVo HD in the near future, ideally with new 1TB internal and external drives using WinMFS. Assume we're still limited to 1TB on each?
> 
> I'd be buying copies of Win7 Home Premium and Fusion to run it as a VM on my MacBook Pro. So...if I were to buy two 1TB WD10EVDS drives, an Antec MX-1 enclosure for the external, a Thermaltake dual drive dock, and the Torx screwdrivers, I should be set to go, correct?


Per dwit's recommendation I would certainly go with a single 2TB internal upgrade...less cost, one less fail point. You can boot into jmfs on your Mac so no need for a VM. (When you Option Boot the choice is between your Mac's HDD and the jmfs disc...which ironically appears as "Windows" even though it's Linux.  )

Happy upgrading!



dwit said:


> Another reason I mentioned the Premiere thread is because in one of the upgrade threads (Tivo HD or Premiere), it is noted that these *dual drive docks(including the Thermaltake Duet) do not work* with the new procedure.


A dual drive dock will work, but only with one drive in it. winMFS, MFSTools and JMFS only recognize one USB connected drive per adapter/dock. So Neenahboy's plan to use his Antec MX1 and a dual drive dock would work (with one drive in each).

Nice recap BTW. :up:


----------



## mandms7

Hello all,

My original Series3 (TCD648250B) started experiencing weird behavior after a recent power outage. It would become incredibly slow and eventually reboot during transfers from my Premiere. Tried all the various Kickstart tests, but they all came back fine. I ended up ordering a WD10EVDS from Amazon, which I received the other day. It has a manufacturing date of January 2011.

I used Instant Cake to install the image on the drive, so it is now running TiVo software 9.2a. When I installed it in my TiVo, it got stuck at the "Welcome, Powering Up" screen. A couple pulls of the power cord did not resolve it. I was under the impression that based on the manufacturing date of my drive, the Intellipark feature should not have been the issue. However, since I had no idea what might be causing the issue, I downloaded the ISO and disabled the Intellipark feature. After doing so, my TiVo booted without issue.

Just curious if this was expected behavior or if anyone else ran into this issue with newer drives?

Thanks.


----------



## richsadams

mandms7 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> My original Series3 (TCD648250B) started experiencing weird behavior after a recent power outage. It would become incredibly slow and eventually reboot during transfers from my Premiere. Tried all the various Kickstart tests, but they all came back fine. I ended up ordering a WD10EVDS from Amazon, which I received the other day. It has a manufacturing date of January 2011.
> 
> I used Instant Cake to install the image on the drive, so it is now running TiVo software 9.2a. When I installed it in my TiVo, it got stuck at the "Welcome, Powering Up" screen. A couple pulls of the power cord did not resolve it. I was under the impression that based on the manufacturing date of my drive, the Intellipark feature should not have been the issue. However, since I had no idea what might be causing the issue, I downloaded the ISO and disabled the Intellipark feature. After doing so, my TiVo booted without issue.
> 
> Just curious if this was expected behavior or if anyone else ran into this issue with newer drives?
> 
> Thanks.


That's good info...and glad things are working okay. I have seen that issue with IC but I can't be sure if it's actually an Intellipark problem or something to do with IC. IIRC some have had to power cycle an IC install four or five times before it "took", but again, not sure about the issue behind that.

The WD10EVDS drives were updated about this time (or earlier) last year so folks haven't had to tweak the Intelipark setting, but again, they weren't using IC, just imaging the original drive. Did you happen to notice what the setting was before you changed it? Also, what state did you end up putting it in; 300 seconds (or longer) or disabled?

So it's possible that what you ended up doing may not have had any bearing on the actual problem, or it may well have, hard to say without some more input from others doing the same exact thing.

Thanks for the info! :up:

BTW, you may have already done so, but if not the best "insurance" you can buy for your TiVo is a UPS like this one. That can address and almost always prevent damage and data corruption caused by power failures, brown outs, spikes. etc.


----------



## mandms7

Oh boy. I just realized that I used the "wdidle3 /S300" command instead of the "wdidle3 /D" command. Sorry - I didn't notice the setting previously. How do you verify the current setting? Also, would you recommend that I change it back or change it to disabled?

One other issue. After using Instant Cake, I used WinMFS to enable the "supersize" feature. However, my Series 3 is still only showing 144 hours. Any ideas?

Thank you.


----------



## richsadams

mandms7 said:


> Oh boy. I just realized that I used the "wdidle3 /S300" command instead of the "wdidle3 /D" command. Sorry - I didn't notice the setting previously. How do you verify the current setting? Also, would you recommend that I change it back or change it to disabled?


 Try a menu restart. If your TiVo reboots normally it s/b fine.



mandms7 said:


> One other issue. After using Instant Cake, I used WinMFS to enable the "supersize" feature. However, my Series 3 is still only showing 144 hours. Any ideas?


 Hmmm...you could try to supersize again...although it seems like there was a step in IC that did that. It's been so long since I used IC I can't remember though. I do recall that sometimes (not always?) supersize has a confirmation pop up that appears behind the winMFS window...you have to move the window out of the way to see it and click "OK". If you try it again, try moving the window around after you click on the Supersize drop down and see if anything is there.

IIRC DVRUpgrade had an FAQ on their website...that might have an answer. They also have a forum you could check. I know they say IC is "unsupported" but you might drop a line to DVRUpgrade's support and see if they can answer if all else fails.


----------



## Neenahboy

dwit said:


> The latest wisdom is to now avoid the dual drive set up for a Tivo HD with a capacity of 2 TB. The way to go now is with a single 2 TB hard drive. The pertinent thread with all the info you need is here:
> *snip*





richsadams said:


> Per dwit's recommendation I would certainly go with a single 2TB internal upgrade...less cost, one less fail point. You can boot into jmfs on your Mac so no need for a VM. (When you Option Boot the choice is between your Mac's HDD and the jmfs disc...which ironically appears as "Windows" even though it's Linux.  )
> 
> Happy upgrading!


Thanks for that, guys.


----------



## unitron

Just an FYI for future searchers:

WDBAAY0020HNC-NRSN is the model number for a Western Digital retail box.

The ad currently on Amazon that shows it being offered by J&R has pictures that show the drive inside as the WD20EADS, which has a 32MB cache and the non-"advanced format" 512 byte sector platters.

Ordered one from J&R. Opened the WD box, slipped out the drive and through the anti-static bag I could see that --

The drive inside the WDBAAY0020HNC-NRSN is a WD20EACS with a 16MB cache and the sticker on the top of the drive has the advanced format warning.

For the same money you can probably find a WD20EARS with 64MB of cache and the same 4K platters.


----------



## mandms7

richsadams said:


> Try a menu restart. If your TiVo reboots normally it s/b fine.
> 
> Hmmm...you could try to supersize again...although it seems like there was a step in IC that did that. It's been so long since I used IC I can't remember though. I do recall that sometimes (not always?) supersize has a confirmation pop up that appears behind the winMFS window...you have to move the window out of the way to see it and click "OK". If you try it again, try moving the window around after you click on the Supersize drop down and see if anything is there.
> 
> IIRC DVRUpgrade had an FAQ on their website...that might have an answer. They also have a forum you could check. I know they say IC is "unsupported" but you might drop a line to DVRUpgrade's support and see if they can answer if all else fails.


After my TiVo upgraded to the latest software, it is now reporting 157 hours of recording time. A little strange, but I won't complain.


----------



## richsadams

mandms7 said:


> After my TiVo upgraded to the latest software, it is now reporting 157 hours of recording time. A little strange, but I won't complain.


 :up: Enjoy!


----------



## leiff

I'm on a stock original S3 Tivo and looking for a good deal on an external hardrive. Any recommendations? I was hoping since the original S3 has less external hardrive restrictions, that there may be better/cheaper out there?


----------



## richsadams

leiff said:


> I'm on a stock original S3 Tivo and looking for a good deal on an external hardrive. Any recommendations? I was hoping since the original S3 has less external hardrive restrictions, that there may be better/cheaper out there?


The information in the original FAQ is still accurate when it comes to "non-approved" external hard drives for the Series3. There are a couple that are incompatible.

If your Series3 still has the original hard drive odds are that it is nearing the end of its life (depending of course on when the Series3 was put into service). Adding a second point of failure is probably not a good idea unless you really don't care if your recordings are lost or not.

If you're looking for more storage space your best bet is to simply upgrade the internal hard drive and put the original on the shelf as a backup while it's still in good operating condition. The cost for a 1TB internal hard drive will probably be about equal to or less than an external drive and you'll have a much greater peace of mind.


----------



## leiff

Thanks for the suggestion. I bought my S3 a little over three years ago. How old is that? I don't really care about potentially loosing my recorded shows but it would be nice to have an extra 250 Gigs to draw from. If I do decide to swap internal instead, how time consuming will it be for me to learn how to copy my drive info to the new drive so as to retain my season-pass manager/thumb up/down settings ect... ?

Fantom GreenDrive 1TB External Hard Drive GD1000EU for $80 a good choice? Mixed reviews on Amazon. 
http://www.amazon.com/Fantom-GreenD...1000EU/dp/B001E06W8O/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top


----------



## richsadams

leiff said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. I bought my S3 a little over three years ago. How old is that? I don't really care about potentially loosing my recorded shows but it would be nice to have an extra 250 Gigs to draw from. If I do decide to swap internal instead, how time consuming will it be for me to learn how to copy my drive info to the new drive so as to retain my season-pass manager/thumb up/down settings ect... ?
> 
> Fantom GreenDrive 1TB External Hard Drive GD1000EU for $80 a good choice? Mixed reviews on Amazon.
> http://www.amazon.com/Fantom-GreenDrive-Desktop-External-GD1000EU/dp/B001E06W8O/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top


The Fantom Green drive will work...has a WD GP hard drive inside.

If you follow the upgrade steps exactly as listed on the first post of this thread there's really no "learning curve" at all. If I don't want to save my recordings I can complete an upgrade in about 15 or 20 minutes these days. First time around I'd guess an hour tops. Most of that time is consumed taking things apart and putting them back together.

If you're comfortable connecting a hard drive to a computer you shouldn't have any problems.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## leiff

Do you know if at some later point if my stock 250 GB drive dies, will I be able to take this green drive from the external enclosure and put in inside Tivo? If so, do you know if this can be done without destroying the external enclosure?

Will I be able to add an internal 1 TB drive & a 1TB external drive for a total of 2 TB's to my original S3 Tivo?


----------



## unitron

leiff said:


> Do you know if at some later point if my stock 250 GB drive dies, will I be able to take this green drive from the external enclosure and put in inside Tivo? If so, do you know if this can be done without destroying the external enclosure?


I fear you are attempting to practice false economy.

Do a lot of reading on this site, especially this thread.

Pick out a good non-enclosed drive with which to replace your TiVo's internal drive.

Never plan on removing a drive from an external enclosure if it came from the manufacturer as a single retail unit, like say a WD Elements.

I'm not saying you'll never be faced with having to do so, I'm saying never plan on being able to do so successfully. You never know what kind of tricks they might have gotten up to with regards to how the case is held together or what kind of electronics and adapters are involved that may or may not keep you from being able to use the drive or the enclosure separately.

If you want to use an external drive, don't attach it to the TiVo, attach it to a computer running the free version of Tivo Desktop, and do your long-term show storage that way. If the Tivo crashes, the shows are still available for any TiVo on your account (Series 2 or newer, if you choose the slower way of copying them), and if the computer crashes you can move the enclosure to another computer running TDP.

If the enclosure crashes, that's when you undertake removal of the drive inside, but with no guarantees.

An external connected to the Tivo takes out shows on itself and the internal drive if it goes bad, and a temporarily flakey connection is enough to make the Tivo think that it's gone bad.


----------



## richsadams

leiff said:


> Do you know if at some later point if my stock 250 GB drive dies, will I be able to take this green drive from the external enclosure and put in inside Tivo? If so, do you know if this can be done without destroying the external enclosure?
> 
> Will I be able to add an internal 1 TB drive & a 1TB external drive for a total of 2 TB's to my original S3 Tivo?


All of what Unitron said...plus...

Understand that if your internal TiVo drive fails you will lose all of your recordings. End of story. You said that didn't concern you earlier so that's fine. The real downside is that you will lose the ability to use your original TiVo hard drive to replace and/or upgrade another drive, no matter where you get the other drive. You'd have to use Instant Cake ($40) to image a new drive plus get your cable cards set back up by your cableco, etc.

Removing a hard drive like the one in the Fantom from the enclosure voids the warranty if that makes a difference.

I can understand that the process for using winMFS in the first post look a little intimidating initially but trust me, it really is dead simple if you follow the instructions. If after reading them you're still hesitant, it won't be any better later and you should just buy a TiVo verified drive and be done with it.

Buying a non-verified external drive now with the thought that you might use it later internally if/when your internal drive fails will end up costing you far more than simply buying one of the TiVo verified WD My DVR Expanders or the WD My Book A/V DVR Expanders now.

To answer your question about the 1TB internal plus 1TB external drives, no, that is not an option with a TiVo Series3. The maximum capacity allowed for the internal TiVo drive is 1.1 TB plus the size of the original drive. So for your Series3 the maximum is 1.35TB (1.1TB + 250GB).

So instead of trying to save a few dollars, you really need to think longer term. Either buy one of the TiVo certified expansion drives or upgrade the internal drive...now.

OR you can purchase a pre-imaged drive from a third party like Weaknees, DVRUpgrade or DVRDude often sells upgraded drives on eBay. Pop the old one out and slip the new one in. You'll still have to get your cable cards re-paired by your cableco, but that will save you from the rest of the DIY project. The downside is the cost of buying a pre-imaged drive from a third party can be double the DIY cost.

BTW, whatever you decide, you can make sure all of your Season Passes are saved by using TiVo's Season Pass Manager on their website.

Bottom line? Don't waste your time on anything else. I know that may not be what you want to hear, but that's the best advice you're going to get. Seriously consider upgrading the internal drive. Hundreds here have done it, many with little or no experience with such things and everything turned out fine.

Everything you need to know is in the first post. Read through it and if you have any more questions, feel free to ask.


----------



## leiff

I have a WD 750 GB green drive I bought in 2008. I don't have access to the drive now, but is there a chance it will work as an interenal? I read say that most modern WD green drives won't work.
So you can save your season passes remotely online. That's cool. Is there a way to save thumb up/down info as well? If so then I would be tempted to buy a pre-imaged internal drive.
I must say I'm still tempted to buy a 1 TB external if anyone knows any good deals please post here.


----------



## dartagnan_007

Sorry Guys I have not been back on for an update but I have been busy wathcing my TiVO with the New 1TB drive in it. 

When I got home Wednesday the TiVO was updated to the Latest software so I called my cable company and had them go throught the setup of setting up the cards again. I skipped the normal Techs and called the Cable Card Desk Directly. Everything went smooth and I have been watching TV without problems. 

Rich,
I did not know about the Season Pass Manager on the Tivo Site. I instead just re-entered the season passes by hand which worked out good because I had a few shows that are no longer on that I got rid of. Since reading your post I was able to add back the ones that are not currently in the schedule by copying them from my other Tivo.
So everything worked out great and I am back up running.

Leiff,
Listen to these guys they know what they are talking about. My upgraded 750 GB drive started to die on me after 5 years and I was not able to make a copy of it. Luckily I still had my original 250 GB drive and was able to use it to make my copy. I would have hated to spend another $40 for Instant Cake when the Drive I bought was only $55 shipped. I would do what they say and put a bigger drive in and keep the original as a backup. My backup as been sitting in my desk drawer since 2006 and still worked like a charm.

Again guys thanks for all your help. This site has always been a great source of info from the Original Cable Card Issues to the first tuning adaptors to HD replacement.


----------



## leiff

DVR dude on ebay and dvrstore.com is offering two different 2 TB pre-imaged drives for original S3. A WD20EARS for $150 and a WD20EVDS (WD AV-GP) for $200. He claims to use special tools to make these WD drives compatible with Tivo. Is this right? Is the AV-GP model worth the extra $50?
So to use a 2 TB drive in an original S3 the DIY option on this thread won't work?
How are peoples experience with 2 TB drives on S3 Tivo. I think I remember hearing they might be slugish.


----------



## lrhorer

richsadams said:


> I can understand that the process for using winMFS in the first post look a little intimidating initially but trust me, it really is dead simple if you follow the instructions. If after reading them you're still hesitant, it won't be any better later and you should just buy a TiVo verified drive and be done with it.


That's dead-on. The advantages of upgrading the internal drive are significant, perhaps even overwhelming. The cost is very low. The time required is minimal. The level of technical expertise required is very low. If one can use a torx screwdriver and run a simple Windows program, it's a lock.



richsadams said:


> Buying a non-verified external drive now with the thought that you might use it later internally if/when your internal drive fails will end up costing you far more than simply buying one of the TiVo verified WD My DVR Expanders or the WD My Book A/V DVR Expanders now.


Even if it doesn't, the advantages of upgrading the internal drive (and consequently shelving the old drive as a spare) far outweigh a few $ one way or the other in drive costs.



richsadams said:


> So instead of trying to save a few dollars, you really need to think longer term. Either buy one of the TiVo certified expansion drives or upgrade the internal drive...now.


...Or both. No matter what, I strongly recommend the internal upgrade.



richsadams said:


> OR you can purchase a pre-imaged drive from a third party like Weaknees, DVRUpgrade or DVRDude often sells upgraded drives on eBay. Pop the old one out and slip the new one in. You'll still have to get your cable cards re-paired by your cableco, but that will save you from the rest of the DIY project. The downside is the cost of buying a pre-imaged drive from a third party can be double the DIY cost.


Personally, I can't imagine going this route, but unfathomable as it is to me, there are people out there who are intimidated by computer equipment. All that said, it is certainly a viable option.



richsadams said:


> Bottom line? Don't waste your time on anything else. I know that may not be what you want to hear, but that's the best advice you're going to get. Seriously consider upgrading the internal drive. Hundreds here have done it, many with little or no experience with such things and everything turned out fine.


It really is easy, and there is plenty of help available here if one really needs it. Whenever I do an intgernal upgrade, my biggest worry is I will drop the old hard drive when transferring it to the PC. That happend to me, once. Fortunately, I already had a backup.


----------



## lrhorer

leiff said:


> DVR dude on ebay and dvrstore.com is offering two different 2 TB pre-imaged drives for original S3. A WD20EARS for $150 and a WD20EVDS (WD AV-GP) for $200. He claims to use special tools to make these WD drives compatible with Tivo.


I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure this is incorrect. I don't think any drive larger than 1.1T will work with an S3 TiVo unless it has a PROM replacement. That is to say, the drive will work, but only 1.1T can be used for storage. The rest is wasted. Unless I am much mistaken, these drives are only for the THD, not the original S3.



leiff said:


> Is this right? Is the AV-GP model worth the extra $50?
> So to use a 2 TB drive in an original S3 the DIY option on this thread won't work?


Unless I am mistaken, no 2T drive will work in an S3 unless you hack the S3.


----------



## leiff

I also see 2 TB drives on weeknees and dvrstore.com websites and they both offer this for S3 original.


----------



## richsadams

lrhorer said:


> I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure this is incorrect. I don't think any drive larger than 1.1T will work with an S3 TiVo unless it has a PROM replacement. That is to say, the drive will work, but only 1.1T can be used for storage. The rest is wasted. Unless I am much mistaken, these drives are only for the THD, not the original S3.
> 
> Unless I am mistaken, no 2T drive will work in an S3 unless you hack the S3.


Turns out Weaknees (not sure about DVRDude) is once again offering 2TB upgrades for TiVo Series3's (and other models). Earlier Weakness was selling 1TB internal plus 1TB external upgrades, but now they are offering a single 2TB internal upgrade.

The 2TB upgrade (1+1 configuration) was around for a while, then they disappeared...ostensibly because users were running into problems. However now there's a 2TB internal option for $299.

AFAIK no one here has run a diagnostic to see exactly what they are doing to overcome the 1.1TB limit. It's too early to tell if these upgrades will be any more stable than the previous offering or not, only time will tell. Perhaps our friend leiff will volunteer!

Me? Unless I couldn't live w/o 2TB of recording space on a Series3 I'd still opt for a winMFS DIY upgrade for $70 or so.


----------



## richsadams

leiff said:


> I also see 2 TB drives on weeknees and dvrstore.com websites and they both offer this for S3 original.


FWIW Weaknees and DVRUpgrade used to be independent online retailers but Weaknees bought DVRUpgrade and now they are the same company with two different "store fronts".


----------



## dlfl

DVR_DUDE sure seems to be selling 2 TB for the model 648:

http://cgi.ebay.com/TiVo-Series-3-T...ryZ11725QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


----------



## richsadams

leiff said:


> Is the AV-GP model worth the extra $50?


The EVDS model will be quieter.


leiff said:


> So to use a 2 TB drive in an original S3 the DIY option on this thread won't work?


That is correct. There is no 2TB DIY option for the Series3 at this time.


----------



## richsadams

dlfl said:


> DVR_DUDE sure seems to be selling 2 TB for the model 648:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/TiVo-Series-3-T...ryZ11725QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


$199 is certainly a better deal than $299...but then there's the warranty. Not sure who will be around for the next three years...DVRDude or Weaknees/DVRUpgrade. Both? Neither? Hmmm...


----------



## richsadams

leiff said:


> I have a WD 750 GB green drive I bought in 2008. I don't have access to the drive now, but is there a chance it will work as an interenal?


Yes. However if it's been in service for three years I'd still opt for a new/larger drive, but your call of course.


leiff said:


> I read say that most modern WD green drives won't work.


Not sure where you read that, but it's not true. There was a time that the WD GP drives had to be tweaked to avoid a reboot issue so that might have been confusing, but they have always worked well...and in fact are what TiVo uses for OEM drives.


----------



## dlfl

richsadams said:


> $199 is certainly a better deal than $299...but then there's the warranty. Not sure who will be around for the next three years...DVRDude or Weaknees/DVRUpgrade. Both? Neither? Hmmm...


I hear ya' . Then there's the TiVo warranty.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Woohoo! 

Just got my $100 in rebates for the batch of WD Green drives I bought months ago when we first got our S4 TiVos. 

Five different $20 Visa debit cards, in five different envelopes. What a waste of resources....


----------



## Stuxnet

ThreeSoFar said:


> Five different $20 Visa debit cards, in five different envelopes. What a waste of resources....


I'd be glad to take some of that wastage off your hands


----------



## TheLongshot

Well, after about three weeks of it working, the 1TB drive failed again, enough so that I switched out to the original drive. Hopefully, I'll be able to boot it up and get the rest off that was added the past 3 weeks. (which really isn't that much.)


----------



## richsadams

ThreeSoFar said:


> Woohoo!
> 
> Just got my $100 in rebates for the batch of WD Green drives I bought months ago when we first got our S4 TiVos.
> 
> Five different $20 Visa debit cards, in five different envelopes. What a waste of resources....


Ooooo...thanks for reminding me! I've got one of those cards in my wallet...almost forgot it was there. Twenty bucks is twenty bucks!


----------



## alershka

I just ordered a pair of WD 10EARS drives to upgrade my two Tivo HD units. I popped them into my PC, booted the WDIDLE3 disc and got both of them upgraded. I then booted into Win7 x86 and loaded up HDDScan 3.3 but I am having a problem. All of my drives are seen but I can't take any action on the drives. The SMART, Temperature Monitor, Features and Identity Info are all grey'd out. I am running as an admin and have also selected run as an administrator to load the program but it just doesn't seem to be doing anything.

So the question is: How noisy are these drives going to be and is there a work around? I haven't moved any Tivo data yet, they are out of the box and the only thing I've done is the Intellipark fix.

Thanks.


----------



## dwit

alershka said:


> I just ordered a pair of WD 10EARS drives to upgrade my two Tivo HD units. I popped them into my PC, booted the WDIDLE3 disc and got both of them upgraded. I then booted into Win7 x86 and loaded up HDDScan 3.3 but I am having a problem. All of my drives are seen but I can't take any action on the drives. The SMART, Temperature Monitor, Features and Identity Info are all grey'd out. I am running as an admin and have also selected run as an administrator to load the program but it just doesn't seem to be doing anything.
> 
> So the question is: How noisy are these drives going to be and is there a work around? I haven't moved any Tivo data yet, they are out of the box and the only thing I've done is the Intellipark fix.
> 
> Thanks.


You might download and try the Hitachi feature tool to make the adjustment. I think it works on any drive(that can be adjusted). Been years since I used it though.


----------



## alershka

dwit said:


> You might download and try the Hitachi feature tool to make the adjustment. I think it works on any drive(that can be adjusted). Been years since I used it though.


Thanks for the info. I will see if I can get the Hitachi program to work later. For now, I left things as is. The drives seem quiet as is.

I haven't done a drive upgrade since my series 1. Everything went real smooth and was easier than I remember from the old days.


----------



## Stuxnet

alershka said:


> I just ordered a pair of WD 10EARS drives to upgrade my two Tivo HD units. I popped them into my PC, booted the WDIDLE3 disc and got both of them upgraded. I then booted into Win7 x86 and loaded up HDDScan 3.3 but I am having a problem. All of my drives are seen but I can't take any action on the drives. The SMART, Temperature Monitor, Features and Identity Info are all grey'd out. I am running as an admin and have also selected run as an administrator to load the program but it just doesn't seem to be doing anything.
> 
> So the question is: How noisy are these drives going to be and is there a work around? I haven't moved any Tivo data yet, they are out of the box and the only thing I've done is the Intellipark fix.Thanks.


Any chance you can see the current AAM value w/HDDScan... I ask because my WD20EARS was preset to the "quiet" level and I didn't need to make changes. You can also do set AAM with WinAAM or HDParm.


----------



## JoeTaxpayer

Ok. I'm ready to update the drive in my THX series 3. 
I have Instant Cake for this model. Looking at the ongoing dialog, I see that it will recognize about 1.1TB, so a 1.5TB drive won't be much more than 1.0. 

Question - any benefit to a higher performance drive? A 7200 vs 5400. Tiger has WD10EARS vs about $100 for 1TB "Black". 

BTW - the Tivo image is freezing every so often. A 30 sec rewind usually fixes it. Gotten bad over last month or two. With the drive being the only moving part, I trust swapping it out will help this issue?


----------



## V7Goose

There is absolutely no benefit to a high performance or large buffer drive in this application (but no harm either). 

In my opinion, you should buy the absolute cheapest WD "Green" drive you can find in the size you want - no matter what other features. In this case, "Green" is good; because, there IS a benefit from reduced power consumption, reduced heat, and reduced noise.


----------



## JoeTaxpayer

Much thanks. The difference between 1.0 and 1.5TB was $5, so I grabbed the green 1.5, from http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160 it appears the series 3 will actually see 1.35TB of that space, so it was worth it. $65 free shipping.


----------



## leiff

Western Digital 1.5 TB Caviar Green SATA Intellipower 64 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Desktop Hard Drive WD15EARS for $65 at Amazon is a good choice then? Anyone know if these are reliable or how many platters it has? 

I also have original S3 Tivo and am interested in this drive.


----------



## Stuxnet

leiff said:


> Western Digital 1.5 TB Caviar Green SATA Intellipower 64 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Desktop Hard Drive WD15EARS for $65 at Amazon is a good choice then? Anyone know if these are reliable or how many platters it has?
> 
> I also have original S3 Tivo and am interested in this drive.


That's a fine unit. You can get platter info at the WD site.


----------



## leiff

Then I'll expect to see 1,350 GB from the 1,500 GB drive on my TiVo Series3 (TCD648250B),
Nice!


----------



## Kit_C

My OLED S3 hung at the welcome screen this week, and it turned out that my 4 year old Hitachi 1TB drive had died. Fortunately, I had the original 320GB drive, and was able to re-install this, update the software to the latest version, and get back online quickly.

After reading the FAQ, I purchased a WD15EVDS from my local Fry's ($72 for the bare drive). It has a manufacture date of Sept 27 2010, so I'm planning to turn off Intellipark using Wdidle3 prior to cloning my existing drive with WinMFS.

Here's my question: The link in the upgrade thread for Wdidle3 appears to be broken. I found Wdidle3  on a WD download page, but it has the following warning:


> This firmware modifies the behavior of the drive to wait longer before positioning the heads in their park position and turning off unnecessary electronics. This utility is designed to upgrade the firmware of the following hard drives: WD1000FYPS-01ZKB0, WD7500AYPS-01ZKB0, WD7501AYPS-01ZKB0.
> 
> CAUTION: Do not attempt to run this software on any hard drives other than what is listed above. Please make sure that the computer system is not turned off during the firmware upgrade. Doing so may damage the hard drive beyond repair and your data may be lost.


Am I OK using this version of Wdidle on my new EVDS, or is there something special about the version that is linked in the upgrade thread?

Thanks,

Kit
San Diego, CA


----------



## leiff

Here is excerpt from FAQ:

*This issue affects all recently manufactured Western Digital EADS, EARS, and EAVS drives. It also affects EVVS drives manufactured after September 18 and EVDS drives manufactured since November. Drives built prior to these dates work perfectly fine; they do not exhibit the issue. The manufacture date is printed on the top of every drive.*[/B]

It says for EVDS drives only after Nov need to be adjusted so I don't think you have to do this


----------



## richsadams

leiff said:


> Here is excerpt from FAQ:
> 
> *This issue affects all recently manufactured Western Digital EADS, EARS, and EAVS drives. It also affects EVVS drives manufactured after September 18 and EVDS drives manufactured since November. Drives built prior to these dates work perfectly fine; they do not exhibit the issue. The manufacture date is printed on the top of every drive.*[/B]
> 
> It says for EVDS drives only after Nov need to be adjusted so I don't think you have to do this


*The FAQ is referring to 2009 dates*. All WD GP drives manufactured *after September 15, 2010* no longer require the Intellipark setting to be adjusted.

I know the FAQ needs updating so misunderstanding this is understandable, but PLEASE be careful when posting information which may not be current/accurate. I will reach out to bkdtv to update the FAQ again.


----------



## richsadams

Kit_C said:


> After reading the FAQ, I purchased a WD15EVDS from my local Fry's ($72 for the bare drive). It has a manufacture date of Sept 27 2010, so I'm planning to turn off Intellipark using Wdidle3 prior to cloning my existing drive with WinMFS.


Per the note above you should not have to adjust the Intellipark setting on your new drive.


----------



## crrazychicken

I followed the upgrade steps using WinMFS and WD20EARS for my TivoHD and expanded to use all of the available space on the 2TB drive


The info on the TIVO now reads 318 HD hours and 2777 SD hours. From reading the threads it shouldn't work, will it just conch out once it hits the 1.2TB mark?


----------



## Kit_C

richsadams said:


> Per the note above you should not have to adjust the Intellipark setting on your new drive.


Thanks all. I'll give it a shot.


----------



## richsadams

crrazychicken said:


> I followed the upgrade steps using WinMFS and WD20EARS for my TivoHD and expanded to use all of the available space on the 2TB drive
> 
> The info on the TIVO now reads 318 HD hours and 2777 SD hours. From reading the threads it shouldn't work, will it just conch out once it hits the 1.2TB mark?


Welcome to the forum. IIRC someone else tried it and it did end up flaking out...not just hitting the recording hours limit but becoming very buggy and ultimately stopped working completely. That was when 2TB drives were first introduced though...so I've no idea what might happen with newer TiVo OS versions, and current drive firmware, etc.

It will be remarkable and welcome if things do go well however! Although you can do the same thing with jmfs that program doesn't have the ability to create a truncated backup like winMFS and that would be very valuable.

So if things do go south...as long as you have your original TiVo hard drive...you can follow the directions for upgrading your TiVo HD to 2TB with jmfs and you should be good to go:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179

Please let us know how things go with this effort though!


----------



## JoeTaxpayer

Kit_C said:


> Thanks all. I'll give it a shot.


Wow, I just got my new 1.5TB WD green and was about to ask this. In car now, will check date when I get back. This is good news.
Ordered the drive from NewEgg, $65 free shipping. Ordered late wed nite, got it today.

Edit - 25 Jan 2011 - nice!

Done - 5 minutes from upwrapping drive to unplugging from the PC. It was, well, a piece of cake. I respect others' opinions and feelings. Find it strange that an electrician can charge what they will, but someone selling useful software for a price will get criticized. I paid $20 for my first two ICs, and when the price went up, I didn't blink. Because for me the software has value. Just saying.


----------



## bgc

On an S2DT with a 1TB WD drive, is there any reason to make the swap space larger than the default of 128MB?

Thanks,
BGC


----------



## mgar

richsadams said:


> *The FAQ is referring to 2009 dates*. All WD GP drives manufactured *after September 15, 2010* no longer require the Intellipark setting to be adjusted.
> 
> I know the FAQ needs updating so misunderstanding this is understandable, but PLEASE be careful when posting information which may not be current/accurate. I will reach out to bkdtv to update the FAQ again.


I just ordered a WD10EARS from Tiger Direct and it should be here next week. It will be installed in my Tivo HD. I don't plant to mess with any drive settings. I am just going to run winMFS. I assume this should work since the soft boot/ Intellipark problems have been resolved.

If I run into any problems with the install I will report them.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread.


----------



## richsadams

mgar said:


> I just ordered a WD10EARS from Tiger Direct and it should be here next week. It will be installed in my Tivo HD. I don't plant to mess with any drive settings. I am just going to run winMFS. I assume this should work since the soft boot/ Intellipark problems have been resolved.
> 
> If I run into any problems with the install I will report them.
> 
> Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread.


TIA for the feedback and happy upgrading!


----------



## unitron

bgc said:


> On an S2DT with a 1TB WD drive, is there any reason to make the swap space larger than the default of 128MB?
> 
> Thanks,
> BGC


If there is and you don't, you'll probably find out the hard way, so go ahead and splurge and make it 500MB.

Look at it this way, the rule of thumb of 1MB for every 2GB means restore -s 500 will only use up 0.05% of the drive. That's one-twentieth of one per cent.

500MB is about 15 minutes of video at Best Quality on an S2 DT. You can spare it.


----------



## Neenahboy

Neenahboy said:


> Thanks for that, guys.


Just wanted to report back that I did the jmfs upgrade with a WD10EVDS Friday night and it appears to have worked flawlessly. Ahhhhh, the ability to store 288 hours of HD goodness is refreshing. Thanks again for the help.


----------



## richsadams

Neenahboy said:


> Just wanted to report back that I did the jmfs upgrade with a WD10EVDS Friday night and it appears to have worked flawlessly. Ahhhhh, the ability to store 288 hours of HD goodness is refreshing. Thanks again for the help.


Sahweet! Enjoy!


----------



## bakem84

Just wanted to share my update story. 

Bought a WD10EURS from Amazon with a 2011 manufacture date (can't remember exactly which month, and I don't feel like opening the Tivo back up at the moment), and ran the setup today. Wouldn't get past the powering up screen. I tried reseating the connector with no luck, and actually reinstalled the original drive, which started up fine. Found a buddy that would let me use a SATA port on his computer, and ran the idle update. Everything boots up fine now with the new drive. :up:

Not sure if they're back to the old setting or not, but mine definitely needed the update.


----------



## richsadams

bakem84 said:


> Just wanted to share my update story.
> 
> Bought a WD10EURS from Amazon with a 2011 manufacture date (can't remember exactly which month, and I don't feel like opening the Tivo back up at the moment), and ran the setup today. Wouldn't get past the powering up screen. I tried reseating the connector with no luck, and actually reinstalled the original drive, which started up fine. Found a buddy that would let me use a SATA port on his computer, and ran the idle update. Everything boots up fine now with the new drive. :up:
> 
> Not sure if they're back to the old setting or not, but mine definitely needed the update.


Thanks for that. Did you try booting up more than twice? There have been numerous reports over the years about having to initially boot several times before TiVo would start.

If you can provide the manufacture date at some point it would be appreciated. AFAIK yours would be the first drive with a 2011 date that needed adjusting.

Glad things are working though and TIA.


----------



## JoeTaxpayer

The 1.5TB WD15EARS failed to get past power up. 25jan2011 date code. 

I had a 1TB seagate in the closet and I'm running now, but curious about the WD. It ran IC fine. Wondering if the size made a difference or if I should have still run the "don't park heads" fix. 

I'm inclined to leave well enough alone. I don't 'need' more space and can use the 1.5TB drive elsewhere. A few minutes to bake, and about 5 min to swap out drives, but the initial boot/pull down channel, etc is enough to not really want to tinker further. 

This was in the Series 3 OLED/THX model. FYI.


----------



## Stuxnet

JoeTaxpayer said:


> The 1.5TB WD15EARS failed to get past power up. 25jan2011 date code.
> 
> I had a 1TB seagate in the closet and I'm running now, but curious about the WD. It ran IC fine. Wondering if the size made a difference or if I should have still run the "don't park heads" fix.


You can run the intellipark fix (WDIDLE3.EXE) without having to reimage the drive.


----------



## JoeTaxpayer

Stuxnet said:


> You can run the intellipark fix (WDIDLE3.EXE) without having to reimage the drive.


The drive was brand new. I had to image it with IC. New date code so I shouldn't need the intellipark fix at all.


----------



## Stuxnet

JoeTaxpayer said:


> New date code so I shouldn't need the intellipark fix at all.


Well... you would hope so... but if you page up to post #7575, there's some uncertainity blowing in the wind... and it's a low risk adjustment... could be something else... bad drive, defective image... just FYI.


----------



## richsadams

JoeTaxpayer said:


> The drive was brand new. I had to image it with IC. New date code so I shouldn't need the intellipark fix at all.


Agree with Stuxnet. I'd try reinstalling it and giving it a few tries at booting. If it doesn't cooperate go ahead and run wdidle3.exe and either set the timeout to 300 seconds (5 minutes) or disable it and see if that doesn't do it.

FWIW the Intellipark setting wouldn't be affected one way or the other by the IC (or any) image or vice versa. However there still may be an issue with some of these drives.


----------



## bakem84

Yeah, I had restarted it about 4 times. I wised up pretty quickly and left the cover off after the first couple adjustments.

I'll take a look at it tomorrow and get a manufacture date.


----------



## richsadams

bakem84 said:


> Yeah, I had restarted it about 4 times. I wised up pretty quickly and left the cover off after the first couple adjustments.
> 
> I'll take a look at it tomorrow and get a manufacture date.


TIA. I can't recall anyone using the EURS line recently, so it may be that the Intellipark caveat may still apply. Ugh.


----------



## nooneuknow

JoeTaxpayer said:


> The 1.5TB WD15EARS failed to get past power up. 25jan2011 date code.
> 
> I had a 1TB seagate in the closet and I'm running now, but curious about the WD. It ran IC fine. Wondering if the size made a difference or if I should have still run the "don't park heads" fix.


IC doesn't support drives larger than 1TB. It's in the IC FAQ section fine print (of the sellers' website). Or, it *should* be there, since it is a limitation with IC.

That is... as of the last time I checked. Nobody has been updating/improving the product... as of last time I checked.

I purchased a copy a while back, and found that it has a LOT of limitations. It's also a product that uses FREE publicly available tools (mfstools) as the engine to install the drive image (the part not so easy to get a hold of).

One of my "favorite" limitations, is that it won't allow you to use it to restore an original TiVo drive. The FAQ states it isn't possible. Yet, if you use it on a larger drive, you can use WinMFS to copy the larger drive to the original drive, and WinMFS re-sizes everything appropriately!

ANYBODY CONSIDERING PURCHASING INSTANT CAKE SOFTWARE SHOULD READ THE **ENTIRE** IC FAQ & SUPPORT SECTION ***BEFORE*** PURCHASING THIS NON-REFUNDABLE PRODUCT.

I wouldn't be so harsh about IC if they hadn't doubled the price, without even updating it, or adding any sort of support (other than the FAQ). I feel the hardware requirements, as well as ALL the limitations, should be presented to the buyer pre-purchase, as opposed to hiding them away in the post-purchase FAQ.

If you do your "due-diligence", by digging around here at the TCF, you'll find that TiVo images ARE out there, and there is an image begging thread for requesting links to images (with a humorous thread name). Then it's only a matter of using WinMFS or MFSTools to install the image. WinMFS couldn't be any easier to use.

In the case of drives larger than 1TB, even WinMFS/MFSTools aren't able to use the whole drive (Original Drive Capacity + 1TB = The Limit).

So, sometimes you wind up using an intermediate drive that isn't too large for IC/WinMFS/MFSTools, just to build a TiVo imaged drive, and then use Comer's jmfs tools to copy/expand it to the larger drive.


----------



## richsadams

nooneuknow said:


> IC doesn't support drives larger than 1TB.


D'oh! I completely forgot about that.  I still have conversations with the original owner of DVRUpgrade and he confirmed that the new owner (Weaknees) has not worked on any upgrades for IC, at least as of a couple of months ago. That would explain this issue anyway.

Adjusting the Intellipark setting probably won't make any difference in this case.


----------



## nooneuknow

richsadams said:


> Did you try booting up more than twice? There have been numerous reports over the years about having to initially boot several times before TiVo would start.


I find it is best to just initiate a KickStart57 on the first boot after using ANY/ALL the TiVo drive imaging/copying/expanding utilities.

This is even true with jmfs. I've used it many times, on both Premieres and HDs. Weird things happened when I didn't make sure and do a KS57 at first boot.

For those who insist on instant-gratification, it won't provide that, since it will take "up to three hours" (more like one hour or less, with a new drive), to complete and then start the 10-15 minute boot process.


----------



## JoeTaxpayer

nooneuknow said:


> IC doesn't support drives larger than 1TB. It's in the IC FAQ section fine print (of the sellers' website). Or, it *should* be there, since it is a limitation with IC.


? Well, I asked here before hitting "buy". 
But for me, it's more about solving the mystery. And I'm happier to know the answer now. I have space in my old Macs to load the 1.5TB, so it won't go unused. 
So thanks for saving me another hour of experiments, and I'll keep an eye out for more 1TB drive sales. Other drives are bound to go soon.


----------



## nooneuknow

JoeTaxpayer said:


> ? Well, I asked here before hitting "buy".
> <snip>
> So thanks for saving me another hour of experiments, and I'll keep an eye out for more 1TB drive sales. Other drives are bound to go soon.


Honestly, it didn't hit me until you asked if your mixed results could have anything to do with the different drive sizes you were working with (1.5TB / 1TB). Your original inquiry slipped by me (I must have been busy watching TiVo).

Most of us here (that have been upgrading for a while), have graduated to keeping our original TiVo drives on a shelf, or performing some other form of backup, eliminating the need for IC (as well as remembering all of its requirements & limitations).


----------



## JoeTaxpayer

@nooneuknow - When I first wanted to swap out drives I went the IC route. I understand there was another method of copying off original. Never did that. Not even sure if I kept the older drives. As I have three different models, I've picked up three IC images over the years. 
Thanks again, I've learned a lot from these threads over the years.


----------



## windracer

I'm pretty sure this will work but wanted to run it by the experts just in case there's something wrong with my logic ...

I'm tired of having the 1TB WD Expander hanging off of my OLED S3 (original internal drive). Rather than having to deal with finding one of the specific models of drives that will work (as listed in this thread), I figure I could just divorce the Expander, make a truncated backup of the internal drive with WinMFS, crack open the Expander and take out the 1TB drive, restore the image to it and use it as the single internal drive. I'm willing to lose the extra 320gb of recording capacity by just keeping that stock drive around in case of emergency.

Any flaws in my logic here?


----------



## richsadams

windracer said:


> I'm pretty sure this will work but wanted to run it by the experts just in case there's something wrong with my logic ...
> 
> I'm tired of having the 1TB WD Expander hanging off of my OLED S3 (original internal drive). Rather than having to deal with finding one of the specific models of drives that will work (as listed in this thread), I figure I could just divorce the Expander, make a truncated backup of the internal drive with WinMFS, crack open the Expander and take out the 1TB drive, restore the image to it and use it as the single internal drive. I'm willing to lose the extra 320gb of recording capacity by just keeping that stock drive around in case of emergency.
> 
> Any flaws in my logic here?


No flaws that I can see. I guess my only concern would be the lifespan of the external drive (which s/b a WD10XXVS drive). If it's been in service for a while it means that it may be that much closer to failure. If you can spare the money I'd suggest just getting a new 1TB (or even 1.5TB) drive. That way you'll have a little peace of mind and a 3 year warranty.

Otherwise I think you'll be good to go! :up:


----------



## windracer

Thanks for the confirmation. Yeah, the age of the drive is a factor, but at this point it's newer than the stock internal drive!


----------



## JoeTaxpayer

windracer said:


> Any flaws in my logic here?


I'd think you could get more value from selling the expander and buying a new 1TB drive. 
If I'm cracking stuff open, I'd rather stick a new one in there.


----------



## windracer

Yeah, you're probably right about re-selling the Expander. Maybe I should just do that and then put the money towards a WD10EVDS instead.


----------



## tchunnui

I hope this is the right place to post, but I had a drive fail on a Series 3. I got a WD5000AAKX as a replacement. Ran instantcake on it which seemed to work correctly and took a few minutes to write to the disk. Now, however, I'm stuck at welcome! powering up where it loops continuously. It'll show the screen for about a minute then restart and do the same thing over and over. Any suggestions on how to fix this please? Thanks!


----------



## eskay

Just adding another data point...

I installed a Western Digital WD20EVDS into my S3. Got stuck on "Powering Up". Disabled Intellipark and now it boots okay. Did a restart and still okay.

Model: WD20EVDS-63T3B0
Serial #WCAVY6773253
Date: 03 MAR 2011

[edit] I should add that I limited WinMFS to 1Tb and am showing 212 hours of recording capacity. I went with the 2Tb drive because it was cheaper than 1.5Tb and in case I re-purpose it for computer use down the road.


----------



## ashu

Finally about to switch to Verizon FIOS (installation scheduled for next week).

This means I really should finally revive my S3 with a new hard drive.

Which means I am posting an open request to one of the kind usual suspects to point me to an S3 image!
(to clarify, my 250GB drive is dead, unrevivable a,d not useful as a source!)

At least losing the Comcast cable card pairing info won't be painful, since I'm ditching Comcast as well! Can anyon confirm that FIOS continues to not pair cards to the TiVo? So were I to 'upgrade' to a Premiere I could retain ONE of the two M-Cards I'll get from Verizon for reuse in the Premiere in multi-stream mode, and return the other, without requiring a future truck roll?

Also, requesting a confirmation that the 1TB WD 10EVCS and 10EVDS are two of the supported/reliable/recommended upgrade options for the S3. About to pull the trigger at Newegg for 69.99

Thanks!


----------



## ashu

Update - I found Rich'spost with the model numbers and ordered the hard drive (10EVDS).


----------



## dwit

tchunnui said:


> I hope this is the right place to post, but I had a drive fail on a Series 3. I got a WD5000AAKX as a replacement. Ran instantcake on it which seemed to work correctly and took a few minutes to write to the disk. Now, however, I'm stuck at welcome! powering up where it loops continuously. It'll show the screen for about a minute then restart and do the same thing over and over. Any suggestions on how to fix this please? Thanks!


Just throwing an idea out: Did you have to use, or change any jumpers on the drive while running the IC program. If so, is the jumper removed or correct for the drive to now operate in the Tivo?

Also, are the sata and power cables properly connected to the drive now that it's back in Tivo?

Finally, did you check to see if it is necessary to adjust "intellipark" settings for that particular drive model?

Good luck?


----------



## windracer

ashu said:


> Which means I am posting an open request to one of the kind usual suspects to point me to an S3 image!


Hey ashu, haven't seen you around in a while ... welcome back (or, if I've just missed seeing your posts and you've never left, hello again!).

PM sent.


----------



## tchunnui

dwit said:


> Just throwing an idea out: Did you have to use, or change any jumpers on the drive while running the IC program. If so, is the jumper removed or correct for the drive to now operate in the Tivo?
> 
> Also, are the sata and power cables properly connected to the drive now that it's back in Tivo?
> 
> Finally, did you check to see if it is necessary to adjust "intellipark" settings for that particular drive model?
> 
> Good luck?


Thank you for the reply. There were no jumpers on the drive at all and I noted there was also not one on the original drive I removed either. The cables are properly seated and the drive spins up when I have power to the tivo. I'm not sure if I need to do "intellipark" but from what I have read on here so far, it seems this drive, manufactured in March 2011, shouldn't need to have this done. I'm not sure what else to do.


----------



## dwit

tchunnui said:


> Thank you for the reply. There were no jumpers on the drive at all and I noted there was also not one on the original drive I removed either. The cables are properly seated and the drive spins up when I have power to the tivo. I'm not sure if I need to do "intellipark" but from what I have read on here so far, it seems this drive, manufactured in March 2011, shouldn't need to have this done. I'm not sure what else to do.


Just for the sake of discussion, how did you come to conclude your previous drive failed? Did you run the typical diagnostics; kickstarts, mfr diagnostics, etc? Just trying to determine if you had already ruled out power supply issues.

Also, did you run any diagnostics on the new drive?

Finally, although I never used IC for the S3 or Tivo HD, I did use it several years ago for a couple of Series 2 boxes. Have you reviewed the IC procedures. Specifically, as I recall for mine, did you get the message from the IC process that your dirve was "baked", and ready to install in the Tivo. Also, that that you have the correct IC image for your specific model?


----------



## eskay

tchunnui said:


> [snip]
> I'm not sure if I need to do "intellipark" but from what I have read on here so far, it seems this drive, manufactured in March 2011, shouldn't need to have this done.
> [snip]


Yeah...I didn't think mine did either, but it did. See my msg above.


----------



## tchunnui

dwit said:


> Just for the sake of discussion, how did you come to conclude your previous drive failed? Did you run the typical diagnostics; kickstarts, mfr diagnostics, etc? Just trying to determine if you had already ruled out power supply issues.
> 
> Also, did you run any diagnostics on the new drive?
> 
> Finally, although I never used IC for the S3 or Tivo HD, I did use it several years ago for a couple of Series 2 boxes. Have you reviewed the IC procedures. Specifically, as I recall for mine, did you get the message from the IC process that your dirve was "baked", and ready to install in the Tivo. Also, that that you have the correct IC image for your specific model?


The old drive did not spin at all as far as I could tell, I also took it out of the Tivo box and plugged it into the computer to test and it wasn't even recognized so I couldn't perform any diagnostics on it either. I did do diagnostic on the new drive and it was fine. I did get a confirmation from IC that the image was "baked" successfully and it was for the correct model Tivo.

I read about the power supply issues and think that's a possibility, but if that's the case, I can't find a cheap power supply and would probably be better off just buying a refurb Premiere. I'd like to save the S3 if possible however, so that's why I'm going this route first.


----------



## tchunnui

eskay said:


> Yeah...I didn't think mine did either, but it did. See my msg above.


Thanks, I suppose I could give that a try. I had read it was only on the Caviar Green drives that were doing that and since this is a Caviar Blue, I didn't think it needed it. Worth a shot anyway to see if that fixes the problem.


----------



## Alvysyngr

I have a Series 3 OLED TCD648250B - am I going to ok using this as an upgrade drive?

Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EARS 1TB 5400 RPM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...136490&cm_re=1tb_green-_-22-136-490-_-Product

I see a lot of back and forth but want to try to make the best decision so I don't get stuck with a drive I don't need - thanks all!


----------



## bakem84

Manufacture date of 12 Jan, 2011 on mine that needed the idle update.


----------



## Alvysyngr

bakem84 said:


> Manufacture date of 12 Jan, 2011 on mine that needed the idle update.


How did you know you needed the idle update? Would the drive not boot up?


----------



## bakem84

Alvysyngr said:


> How did you know you needed the idle update? Would the drive not boot up?


Yeah, I couldn't get past the Welcome Powering Up screen on 4 reboots. Doing the idle update got it to start right away.

This was actually an update to an earlier post of mine. I used a WD10EURS drive, not an EARS drive.


----------



## windracer

windracer said:


> Yeah, you're probably right about re-selling the Expander. Maybe I should just do that and then put the money towards a WD10EVDS instead.


I decided to go ahead with the internal 1TB upgrade.

The WD10EARS I got from Amazon today had a 25-SEP-2010 manufacture date, but I still had to use wdidle3 on it because it got stuck at "Powering Up" after I put it into my S3. I also used HDDScan to set the acoustic management to 128.

Now, however, I'm looking at the Green Screen of Death.  It's been running for just about an hour, so I'm going to leave it and see what happens.


----------



## mgar

mgar said:


> I just ordered a WD10EARS from Tiger Direct and it should be here next week. It will be installed in my Tivo HD. I don't plant to mess with any drive settings. I am just going to run winMFS. I assume this should work since the soft boot/ Intellipark problems have been resolved.
> 
> If I run into any problems with the install I will report them.
> 
> Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread.


The drive arrived earlier this afternoon. I upgraded using winMFS with no problems. The Tivo now reports 142 hours of HD capacity.


----------



## leiff

My 1.5 TB WD EARS arrived from Amazon with a Nov 2010 date. It wouldn't get past welcome screen so I did "wdidle3" and now it boots fine and reports 213 HD hours of storage. Nice!


----------



## ThAbtO

mgar said:


> The drive arrived earlier this afternoon. I upgraded using winMFS with no problems. The Tivo now reports 142 hours of HD capacity.


What version software is your THD on now? When its updated to 11.0+, it should report about 157 hrs.


----------



## Stuxnet

leiff said:


> My 1.5 TB WD EARS arrived from Amazon with a Nov 2010 date. It wouldn't get past welcome screen so I did "wdidle3" and now it boots fine and reports 213 HD hours of storage. Nice!


Congrats, and another datapoint!


----------



## mgar

ThAbtO said:


> What version software is your THD on now? When its updated to 11.0+, it should report about 157 hrs.


My software version is 11.0k[plus a bunch of numbers]

By the way, I didn't do anything special to the drive. I just unpackaged it, ran winMFS, and installed it. I didn't write down the manufacture date but the sku is TSD-1000EARS SY. It came in OEM packaging.


----------



## windracer

windracer said:


> Now, however, I'm looking at the Green Screen of Death.  It's been running for just about an hour, so I'm going to leave it and see what happens.


Whew. After almost exactly 3 hours the S3 rebooted from the GSOD and this time booted normally. 157HD hours and no more Expander. :up:


----------



## leiff

Stuxnet said:


> Congrats, and another datapoint!


eh? Datapoint??


----------



## dlfl

mgar said:


> The drive arrived earlier this afternoon. I upgraded using winMFS with no problems. The Tivo now reports 142 hours of HD capacity.





ThAbtO said:


> What version software is your THD on now? When its updated to 11.0+, it should report about 157 hrs.


I think 142 hrs means it wan't "supersized" during the WinMFS restore. IIRC, you can run WinMFS on it again and perform the supersize alone. (But check out the TiVo software version factor first in case that does it.)


----------



## mgar

dlfl said:


> I think 142 hrs means it wan't "supersized" during the WinMFS restore. IIRC, you can run WinMFS on it again and perform the supersize alone. (But check out the TiVo software version factor first in case that does it.)


That makes sense. I did not use the "supersize" option. 142 hours is already more TV that I can watch. I went with 1 TB because the price was only $54 + $2.99 shipping.

I upgraded my Series 3 a couple of years ago and it shows 143 HD hours. I did not use the "supersize" option on that drive either.


----------



## Stuxnet

leiff said:


> eh? Datapoint??


EARS mfg date vs. intellipark issues


----------



## Kit_C

My upgrade to a WD15EVDS (see original post below) failed, and I'm starting to think my Tivo has other issues.

After deactivating IntelliPark and restoring an image from the original 320GB drive, I was able to get the Tivo to boot and show the expected storage. But after moving the unit into my entertainment center, I got hung up on the "Welcome. Powering UP" screen. I tried installing my original 320GB drive (which was working last week), and it too is getting hung up at the welcome screen.

Is it possible for the power supply to fail in a way that I get video out, but the power to the drive is interrupted? If that's the case, I think I may have intermittent or sagging power.

Kit



Kit_C said:


> My OLED S3 hung at the welcome screen this week, and it turned out that my 4 year old Hitachi 1TB drive had died. Fortunately, I had the original 320GB drive, and was able to re-install this, update the software to the latest version, and get back online quickly.
> 
> After reading the FAQ, I purchased a WD15EVDS from my local Fry's ($72 for the bare drive). It has a manufacture date of Sept 27 2010, so I'm planning to turn off Intellipark using Wdidle3 prior to cloning my existing drive with WinMFS.
> 
> Here's my question: The link in the upgrade thread for Wdidle3 appears to be broken. I found Wdidle3  on a WD download page, but it has the following warning:
> 
> Am I OK using this version of Wdidle on my new EVDS, or is there something special about the version that is linked in the upgrade thread?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Kit
> San Diego, CA


----------



## tchunnui

As an update, I ran wdidle3 and rebaked my drive over the weekend. Everything works after a little hang up after downloading the latest software. The manufacture date on the drive is March 14, 2011. I'm not sure if rebaking it solved the issue or if disabling intellipark did, but either way, it seems a lot of these newer drives are coming with intellipark that should probably be disabled. Thanks all for the help and suggestions, I'm back to having 2 tivos again! :up:


----------



## richsadams

Ugh. Well, it appears that whatever happened between last September and more recently, things may be back to square one with respect to having to run wdidle3.exe to extend the timeout or disable the Intellipark feature on Western Digital GP and possibly AV/GP hard drives (of all sizes and manufacture dates) to avoid an initial boot or soft reboot problem.  

Thanks to everyone for the data points! :up:

FWIW I have reached out to bkdtv with regard to updating this thread's FAQ (first post), but haven't received a response to date. I'll try once more and if that doesn't work I'll contact one of the moderators for suggestions.


----------



## leiff

Is there any downside to having to run wdidle3? Will the WD drive work as well as one a little older that doesn't require wdidle3?


----------



## richsadams

leiff said:


> Is there any downside to having to run wdidle3? Will the WD drive work as well as one a little older that doesn't require wdidle3?


No known differences with respect to TiVo. However there is some back-and-forth regarding simply adjusting the timeout from the eight second default to 300 seconds (/S300) OR disabling it completely. The discussion revolves around the impact on the lifespan of the drive itself. Both camps seem to have compelling positions with respect to why one or the other is better however neither side have any long-term proof that their position is actually correct. To date drives adjusted either way haven't started to fail en-masse either so the jury is still out.

FWIW I tend to fall into the 300 seconds camp if only from a gut feeling about the whole thing and knowing that was the original recommendation from others here and on other forums...and that it works perfectly fine in TiVo's case.


----------



## Stuxnet

+1 on 300 seconds, FWIW


----------



## mgar

Update on my WD10EARS Installation on my Tivo HD:

The drive I installed was manufactured AUG 2010 and does have the intellipark problem. This is the drive that I ordered a couple of weeks ago and received last week.

The Tivo stalled on the Welcome Screen during a soft reboot.

I removed the drive and ran wdidle3. I ran into one problem. For some reason if I ran wdidle3 to make sure it would see the drive, and then ran it again with the /s300 option it would hang, and then give an abort retry fail error.

After retrying on a second computer I found that if I just ran wdidle3 one time with the /s300 it worked just fine.


----------



## MPSAN

mgar said:


> Update on my WD10EARS Installation on my Tivo HD:
> 
> The drive I installed was manufactured AUG 2010 and does have the intellipark problem. This is the drive that I ordered a couple of weeks ago and received last week.
> 
> The Tivo stalled on the Welcome Screen during a soft reboot.
> 
> I removed the drive and ran wdidle3. I ran into one problem. For some reason if I ran wdidle3 to make sure it would see the drive, and then ran it again with the /s300 option it would hang, and then give an abort retry fail error.
> 
> After retrying on a second computer I found that if I just ran wdidle3 one time with the /s300 it worked just fine.


I had the same issue a number of months ago. My suggestion was (back then) to just run it, but these threads get lost. What I did was run it with the options and then I did a reboot. When I checked again I found that it did change the settings.


----------



## aswann

Just a quick note to say a big Thank You to all have contributed to this thread. I upgraded my Series 3 last night and it went seamlessly thanks to all the info I got here. I purchased a WD10EVDS from NewEgg. I did run WD3IDLE on it to be safe. Used MFSLIVE with the SuperSize option and am now showing 156 HD hours. Whole thing took 2.5 hours start to finish and I had time to load the dishwasher, do a load of laundry (my wife was very happy when she got home) and watch part of a move on Netflix instant view while the copy was taking place. Feel really good about this solution since the original drive was getting some age on it. Now I have a backup of the OS on my computer and a spare drive on the shelf.


----------



## larrs

I know things have changed since the original FAQ was published and searches return a lot of info, some conflicting.

Is there still a limit of 1350GB on the S3 OLED (1.5TB Drive) or can one now go 2TB on these?

I notice a lot of discussion on 2TB for the THD, but I am specifically talking the original model S3. I am looking to eliminate all external drives in the near future.


----------



## richsadams

larrs said:


> I know things have changed since the original FAQ was published and searches return a lot of info, some conflicting.
> 
> Is there still a limit of 1350MB on the S3 OLED (1.5TB Drive) or can one now go 2TB on these?
> 
> I notice a lot of discussion for 2TB for the THD, but I am specifically talking the original model S3. I am looking to eliminate all external drives in the near future.


Yes, the limit still applies for the DIY method here. However there are a couple of folks (DVRDude and Weaknees) that are selling 2TB drive upgrades for the original Series3.


----------



## ashu

New Datapoint : My March 2011 built WD10EVDS (1 TB Green WD) required a wdidle3 /D, otherwise my S3 was stuck in an infinite wait at "Welcome, Powering Up"

Sadly, my Vantec eSATA enclosure that housed the drive for this tweak/MFS imaging was recognized (chipset issue?) at bootup/Bios/DOS drivers on the wdidle3 disk image on the 4th system on which I tried. And I tried AHCI on/off and various permutations. The system that worked was the oldest I had access to,t hat had an eSATA. Sigh.

This was two days after the FIOS nistallation, at which time I was forced to accept (an icky, but vastly improved over the Comcast crud) Motorola DVR for the interim.

As always, thanks to the maintainers of this thread and the nice folks (you know who you are!) who make images available to those of us who can do it themselves. This situation should serve as a great reason to prep your TiV/drive/upgrade early, going the pre-built image route if you must, to ensure installation success by havnig it functional on the day your installer arrives.

Now I can only regret having to let the FIOS installer walk out with his bevy of M CableCards that he couldn't leave with me, and think about the right way to obtain the cards from Verizon and self-install them (call? write? petition my senator?) rathr than have a truck roll. And get rid of the rather-average VZ FIOS DVR! (mailback? Dropoff?)


----------



## larrs

richsadams said:


> Yes, the limit still applies for the DIY method here. However there are a couple of folks (DVRDude and Weaknees) that are selling 2TB drive upgrades for the original Series3.


Thanks.

I am definitely going DIY. The last time I bought a DVRDude drive, it worked great but ultimately required a $35 truck roll from my cable company to fix cablecard pairing issues- making the total cost nearly $150 for a 1TB upgrade (or double what I can do the 1350GB upgrade for myself). I would much rather copy the info from my own drive...


----------



## ChinaBull

Here's a random list of internal HD experiences in case there is a common thread.

About 3 years ago, I upgraded the internal 160G to a 1T Seagate ST3100005N1A1AS. Everything worked well until several weeks ago when the "30 second skip" skipped to the end instead of a 30 second skip. I rebooted, and the Tivo stuck in a reboot loop a the "Welcome to Tivo" screen.

On the assumption that it was a bad hard drive, I got a WD10EARS (Manufacture date 13 Sep 2010) to replace it. Install steps:


Run WDIDLE3 to set Intellipark to 300 Seconds
Use MFSLive to try to copy the old HD to the new HD, in case the drive wouldn't function in a Tivo environment, but possibly MFSLive could succeed. *Fail - at 1%, Seg faults and bad sectors appeared.
Use MFSLive to copy the old 160G HD to the new 1T HD. The copy completed. I put it in the Tivo and tried to boot. *Fail - Gray screen of death.
Giving up on Linux (I admit, I didn't pay my dues; no kernel recompile, no custom driver was written), I switched to WinMFS and copied again. *Failed - "Welcome screen of Death"
Several more tries, finally it boots up all the way. I put the cover back on, only to find that it's stuck in the "Welcome screen of death" again.
Further tries to reprogram seem to indicate success, but the delay is so long that the drive has clearly failed in the write mode. The WDS Diagnostics confirmed problems - many bad, unrepairable sectors.
Switched to a spare 1T WD1001FALS drive, and it works. I don't know anything about how suitable that drive will be in a Tivo environment, but it seems to work at the moment.

Analysis - clearly the original Seagate has a problem; the Tivo thought there was a problem, which could have been a bum Tivo software update, but the bad sector issue was confirmed in another system. The kicker: I downloaded the Seagate DOS diagnostics to get a trouble code for the warranty - both a quick test and long test found no bad sectors. Hypothesis: The drive can function when read sequentially. And since Seagate will just throw the drive on a system with the same "test program", there's no point in trying to do a warranty return.

The WD10EARS failure:

Did the WDIDLE3 command mess up the drive firmware? I didn't find that model in the official list for the WDIDLE3 program.
Infant mortality?
Hopefully the use of WDIDLE3 won't void the warranty.


----------



## dlfl

larrs said:


> .....The last time I bought a DVRDude drive, it worked great but ultimately required a $35 truck roll from my cable company to fix cablecard pairing issues.......


As I understand it, any upgrade method that doesn't use a backup image from your TiVo (e.g., DVR_DUDE, Instant Cake, image begged from another TiVo) is going to require re-pairing of the CableCARD(s) unless you happen to be on a cable system that doesn't enforce pairing, e.g., Verizon FIOS.


----------



## asteinfeld

Hello, all. I have an unmodified S3 to which I paired a WD MyDVR Expander a long time ago. I believe the primary drive is now dying (regular freezes and hanging reboots). So, I'm going to swap out the original drive before it gives up the ghost entirely. Can someone confirm that I can (must?) follow the steps as laid out in section IV(11) of the FAQ to install the new drive and pair it to my current WD external drive? Can someone also confirm that there is no way to copy over my current recordings to the new setup? (This last is no big deal, since I've been copying archived shows to the PC with Tivo Desktop, but I'd like to be sure I'm not missing an option).

Thanks much for your help.


----------



## ThAbtO

asteinfeld said:


> Hello, all. I have an unmodified S3 to which I paired a WD MyDVR Expander a long time ago. I believe the primary drive is now dying (regular freezes and hanging reboots). So, I'm going to swap out the original drive before it gives up the ghost entirely. Can someone confirm that I can (must?) follow the steps as laid out in section IV(11) of the FAQ to install the new drive and pair it to my current WD external drive? Can someone also confirm that there is no way to copy over my current recordings to the new setup? (This last is no big deal, since I've been copying archived shows to the PC with Tivo Desktop, but I'd like to be sure I'm not missing an option).
> 
> Thanks much for your help.


Its more likely your expander is failing, but in either case, if either drive fails, you have problems.

You would have to disconnect/divorce the expander drive before you can change a drive. You will lose any recordings since the expander was attached.

You would be better to change to a single drive setup with a 1 TB or larger drive than to rely on a 2 drive setup.


----------



## unitron

asteinfeld said:


> Hello, all. I have an unmodified S3 to which I paired a WD MyDVR Expander a long time ago. I believe the primary drive is now dying (regular freezes and hanging reboots). So, I'm going to swap out the original drive before it gives up the ghost entirely. Can someone confirm that I can (must?) follow the steps as laid out in section IV(11) of the FAQ to install the new drive and pair it to my current WD external drive? Can someone also confirm that there is no way to copy over my current recordings to the new setup? (This last is no big deal, since I've been copying archived shows to the PC with Tivo Desktop, but I'd like to be sure I'm not missing an option).
> 
> Thanks much for your help.


You might want to make sure it's the internal drive and not the external that's going bad.


----------



## lrhorer

ThAbtO said:


> Its more likely your expander is failing, but in either case, if either drive fails, you have problems.
> 
> You would have to disconnect/divorce the expander drive before you can change a drive. You will lose any recordings since the expander was attached.


This is not true, at all. First of all, dd_rescue can copy the failing drive to a similar or larger drive in an effort to effect repairs. Secondly, depending on drive sizes, WinMFS or MFS_Tools may be able to not only copy the information from the drives, but also merge them into one.



ThAbtO said:


> You would be better to change to a single drive setup with a 1 TB or larger drive than to rely on a 2 drive setup.


True.


----------



## richsadams

lrhorer said:


> WinMFS or MFS_Tools may be able to not only copy the information from the drives, but also merge them into one.


Unfortunately that's been tried (many times) and it's not possible.


----------



## lrhorer

richsadams said:


> Unfortunately that's been tried (many times) and it's not possible.


I don't recall exactly how I accomplished it, but I did it. The TiVo in my Livingroom has a single drive. It used to have two. There are still three recordings on it that far predate the upgrade.

I suspect success may have to do with the fact the internal drive was a stock 250G hard drive, not one expanded by WinMFS or MFS_Tools. Had that been the case, there would have been more than 2 MFS Media regions on it, and the upgrade would have been far more problematical.



Code:


HD_LivingRoom:/sbin# pdisk -l /dev/hda

stat: mode = 060660, type=Block
size = 0, blocks = 0
HDIO_GETGEO: heads=255, sectors=63, cylinders=51329, start=0,  total=824600385
Partition map (with 512 byte blocks) on '/dev/hda'
 #:                type name                              length   base       ( size )
 1: Apple_partition_map Apple                                 63 @ 1          (  31.5K)
 2:                Ext2 Hack 1                            524288 @ 64         ( 256.0M)
 3:               Image Kernel 1                            8192 @ 524352     (   4.0M)
 4:                Ext2 Root 1                            524288 @ 532544     ( 256.0M)
 5:                Ext2 Hack 2                            524288 @ 1056832    ( 256.0M)
 6:               Image Kernel 2                            8192 @ 1581120    (   4.0M)
 7:                Ext2 Root 2                            524288 @ 1589312    ( 256.0M)
 8:                Swap Linux Swap                        262144 @ 2113600    ( 128.0M)
 9:                Ext2 /var                              524288 @ 2375744    ( 256.0M)
10:                 MFS MFS application region            589824 @ 2900032    ( 288.0M)
11:                 MFS MFS media region               216747008 @ 3489856    ( 103.3G)
12:                 MFS Second MFS application region     589824 @ 220236864  ( 288.0M)
13:                 MFS Second MFS media region        268617728 @ 220826688  ( 128.0G)
14:                 MFS Third MFS applicatioon region       4096 @ 489444416  (   2.0M)
15:                 MFS Third MFS media region        1465144320 @ 489448512  ( 698.6G)
16:          Apple_Free Extra                          975684336 @ 1954592832 ( 465.2G)

Note the expanded Hack partitions were created by me after the fact.


----------



## unitron

lrhorer said:


> I don't recall exactly how I accomplished it, but I did it. The TiVo in my Livingroom has a single drive. It used to have two. There are still three recordings on it that far predate the upgrade.
> 
> I suspect success may have to do with the fact the internal drive was a stock 250G hard drive, not one expanded by WinMFS or MFS_Tools. Had that been the case, there would have been more than 2 MFS Media regions on it, and the upgrade would have been far more problematical.
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> HD_LivingRoom:/sbin# pdisk -l /dev/hda
> 
> stat: mode = 060660, type=Block
> size = 0, blocks = 0
> HDIO_GETGEO: heads=255, sectors=63, cylinders=51329, start=0,  total=824600385
> Partition map (with 512 byte blocks) on '/dev/hda'
> #:                type name                              length   base       ( size )
> 1: Apple_partition_map Apple                                 63 @ 1          (  31.5K)
> 2:                Ext2 Hack 1                            524288 @ 64         ( 256.0M)
> 3:               Image Kernel 1                            8192 @ 524352     (   4.0M)
> 4:                Ext2 Root 1                            524288 @ 532544     ( 256.0M)
> 5:                Ext2 Hack 2                            524288 @ 1056832    ( 256.0M)
> 6:               Image Kernel 2                            8192 @ 1581120    (   4.0M)
> 7:                Ext2 Root 2                            524288 @ 1589312    ( 256.0M)
> 8:                Swap Linux Swap                        262144 @ 2113600    ( 128.0M)
> 9:                Ext2 /var                              524288 @ 2375744    ( 256.0M)
> 10:                 MFS MFS application region            589824 @ 2900032    ( 288.0M)
> 11:                 MFS MFS media region               216747008 @ 3489856    ( 103.3G)
> 12:                 MFS Second MFS application region     589824 @ 220236864  ( 288.0M)
> 13:                 MFS Second MFS media region        268617728 @ 220826688  ( 128.0G)
> 14:                 MFS Third MFS applicatioon region       4096 @ 489444416  (   2.0M)
> 15:                 MFS Third MFS media region        1465144320 @ 489448512  ( 698.6G)
> 16:          Apple_Free Extra                          975684336 @ 1954592832 ( 465.2G)
> 
> Note the expanded Hack partitions were created by me after the fact.


You've got a Series 1 partition layout, almost 500GB of unused space, Boot 1 and Boot 2 should be where your hack partitions are, and I fear your swap partition is seriously undersized.

Maybe it'll work long-term, but I'd advise you to get a big ol' drive, make it all one NT partition, put it in a computer running TiVo Desktop, and copy over everything religiously.


----------



## lrhorer

unitron said:


> You've got a Series 1 partition layout


No, it's not.



unitron said:


> almost 500GB of unused space


That's the most Win_MFS could manage. I know there is a custom image out there that allows a full 1.5T on an S3, but if I took advantage of it, I would lose my recordings. I'm not prepared to do that at this time. In any case, the current size is enough for this machine.



unitron said:


> Boot 1 and Boot 2 should be where your hack partitions are


The order of the partitions is not important as long as the bootpage is correct. In any case, that's where TiVo put them, which is to say, the order in which TiVo put them. The starting sectors are, of course, my doing.



unitron said:


> and I fear your swap partition is seriously undersized.


Not really. It's big enough to handle a GSOD - not that I have had any GSODs since moving to a single drive. In any case, as I said before, that's what TiVo created. Actually, I thought about increasing the swap space when I migrated to the 1.5T drive, but I decided against it.



unitron said:


> Maybe it'll work long-term, but I'd advise you to get a big ol' drive


An 18T array isn't big?



unitron said:


> make it all one NT partition


Why would I create a partition? Why would I format it as NT? Don't be silly.



unitron said:


> put it in a computer running TiVo Desktop, and copy over everything religiously.


Why would I run that POS? It certainly wouldn't do anything for me that I can't do far better with kmttg or TyTool, but none of them would be of any help. The videos I would want to save are all encrypted and copy protected.


----------



## richsadams

lrhorer said:


> I don't recall exactly how I accomplished it, but I did it. The TiVo in my Livingroom has a single drive. It used to have two. There are still three recordings on it that far predate the upgrade.
> 
> I suspect success may have to do with the fact the internal drive was a stock 250G hard drive, not one expanded by WinMFS or MFS_Tools. Had that been the case, there would have been more than 2 MFS Media regions on it, and the upgrade would have been far more problematical.


Sounds interesting but over the years a lot of folks have tried it without success and according to Spike, the author of winMFS it simply cannot be done...at least using winMFS or MFSTools. There are umpteen posts on his forum from folks (including yours truly) asking if it's possible to save all recordings on internal and external TiVo drives (stock or upgraded) and merge them onto one. Spike's repeated answer is an unwavering "no". Those that tried almost to a one said that even though they were able to move everything to one drive they immediately encountered the "external drive missing" error on boot up and couldn't get any further or that the new drive would not boot up at all. On a number of early posts (which would have only covered the Series3 at the time) he explained why...can't recall now all of the details...something to do with partitions or Kernel issues or something or other, you'd have to search.

If somehow it were possible it would certainly be a enorumously helpful find and step-by-step instructions would be most welcome. I suspect however that if someone were to figure it out, it would probably require something beyond a winMFS/MFSTools user's capabilities.

That said, if there's a way to do it...bring it on as they say!


----------



## asteinfeld

ThAbtO said:


> Its more likely your expander is failing, but in either case, if either drive fails, you have problems.
> 
> You would have to disconnect/divorce the expander drive before you can change a drive. You will lose any recordings since the expander was attached.
> 
> You would be better to change to a single drive setup with a 1 TB or larger drive than to rely on a 2 drive setup.


Thank you, and to the others who have replied. The wife had reported hearing a grinding sound from the TiVo, which led me to suspect it rather than the expander (the TiVo's fan seems fine).

I hadn't thought about simply ditching the Expander, which is a good suggestion (though why is it more likely that the Expander is failing rather than the older original drive?)

Still, am I correct that if I divorce the external drive and install a new internal drive, I will not be able to "plug and play" an external drive in the future?


----------



## richsadams

asteinfeld said:


> Still, am I correct that if I divorce the external drive and install a new internal drive, I will not be able to "plug and play" an external drive in the future?


If you want to upgrade your TiVo Series3 via the instructions in the FAQ (first post) that is correct.

The DIY upgrade using winMFS is really quite simple and inexpensive (<$70). Most folks opt for a 1TB upgrade (although you can go slightly larger using a 1.5TB drive w/about 1.3TB being available).

If you really need more space a couple of folks are offering 2TB upgrades for Series3 TiVo's: DVRDude on eBay and Weaknees. The cost is certainly higher, but it's an option.

As others have recommended, going to a single internal drive is your best bet. The WD My DVR Expanders only have a one-year warranty (as opposed to a 3 year for an internal) and have a fairly poor track record. A single internal drive removes a second point of failure and loss of recordings as you may have to experience.

Hope that helps and happy upgrading!


----------



## lrhorer

richsadams said:


> Sounds interesting but over the years a lot of folks have tried it without success and according to Spike, the author of winMFS it simply cannot be done...at least using winMFS or MFSTools. There are umpteen posts on his forum from folks (including yours truly) asking if it's possible to save all recordings on internal and external TiVo drives (stock or upgraded) and merge them onto one. Spike's repeated answer is an unwavering "no".


I don't know what to tell you. It's been a couple of years, so I really don't recall how I did it. I'm almost certain I did not divorce the external drive, though. If I had, I would have lost those recordings. I went through my posts with the term "Antec" in them, and I see references to my 250G + 750G setup as early as May 2007. While that is just a bit after the three recordings were made, I could swear at least two of them were made after the marriage. I can't absolutely guarantee anything that long ago, of course. Too bad I didn't report in this thread when I did the marriage. Then we would know for sure.



richsadams said:


> If somehow it were possible it would certainly be a enorumously helpful find and step-by-step instructions would be most welcome. I suspect however that if someone were to figure it out, it would probably require something beyond a winMFS/MFSTools user's capabilities.


Well, I don't really recall the details, as I say. Certainly I have modified and copied the partitions on my TiVos from time to time.


----------



## Qwertinsky

Just thought I would add a successful Tivo-HD upgrade report.

Western Digital AV-GP WD10EVDS Manufactured March 2011

Followed the "TiVo Internal Upgrade Instructions: Preserves Settings and Recordings" directions

Plus section 14. ran wdidle /D 3720 seconds (62.0 minutes)

I soft rebooted it twice and had no problems starting up.


----------



## richsadams

lrhorer said:


> I don't know what to tell you. It's been a couple of years, so I really don't recall how I did it. I'm almost certain I did not divorce the external drive, though. If I had, I would have lost those recordings. I went through my posts with the term "Antec" in them, and I see references to my 250G + 750G setup as early as May 2007. While that is just a bit after the three recordings were made, I could swear at least two of them were made after the marriage. I can't absolutely guarantee anything that long ago, of course. Too bad I didn't report in this thread when I did the marriage. Then we would know for sure.
> 
> Well, I don't really recall the details, as I say. Certainly I have modified and copied the partitions on my TiVos from time to time.


FWIW when I and IIRC some others reported divorcing our external drives (which were added with the KS62 hack) there were indeed some recordings left that were made _after_ the external drive was attached. (I think things have changed since then because I never hear of that happening now.)

It was apparent back then that not every recording was striped across both drives...but most were. So it's quite possible that some of your recordings made after the eSATA drive was added were intact after divorcing the drive. To that point I'm almost certain you must have divorced the drive before upgrading. There are several reports of folks that didn't and they ended up basically bricking their internal drive and had to go with an IC image to get back to square one.

In any case, if you or anyone else ever sorts out how to save all of the recordings on an internal and external drives and migrate them to a single internal drive there are many cold beers waiting!


----------



## richsadams

Qwertinsky said:


> Just thought I would add a successful Tivo-HD upgrade report.
> 
> Western Digital AV-GP WD10EVDS Manufactured March 2011
> 
> Followed the "TiVo Internal Upgrade Instructions: Preserves Settings and Recordings" directions
> 
> Plus section 14. ran wdidle /D 3720 seconds (62.0 minutes)
> 
> I soft rebooted it twice and had no problems starting up.


Nice! Congrats and enjoy! :up:


----------



## lrhorer

richsadams said:


> FWIW when I and IIRC some others reported divorcing our external drives (which were added with the KS62 hack) there were indeed some recordings left that were made _after_ the external drive was attached. (I think things have changed since then because I never hear of that happening now.)
> 
> It was apparent back then that not every recording was striped across both drives...but most were. So it's quite possible that some of your recordings made after the eSATA drive was added were intact after divorcing the drive.


Yeah, but there would have been no way to know this without trying it and risking the loss of the data. I would not have wanted to lose these recordings. If I did employ a divorce, then either I knew they were recorded prior to the marriage, or else I tested the divorce using copied drive images.



jcthorne said:


> To that point I'm almost certain you must have divorced the drive before upgrading. There are several reports of folks that didn't and they ended up basically bricking their internal drive and had to go with an IC image to get back to square one.


Oh, I would never start a drive upgrade without first copying the entire structure to a backup system. Doing so has saved my bacon many times.


----------



## unitron

lrhorer said:


> No, it's not.
> 
> ...


If it were a post-Series 1 layout the partition at base 64 would be one of the media partitions.


----------



## lrhorer

unitron said:


> If it were a post-Series 1 layout the partition at base 64 would be one of the media partitions.


That came straight from my S3 TiVo.

Edit:
Let me expand that. It came directly from the S3 hard drive that was upgraded by whatever tools I used to migrate from the two-disk system to a one-disk system. I'm pretty sure it was MFS_tools. I took a look at the original 250G hard drive that came with the TiVo, and indeed it does start partition 13 (MFS media region 2) at 64 sectors. The TiVo doesn't care, though, since once the kernel is loaded, all operations reference the partition map, not the absolute sector.


----------



## MCSSOLUTIONS

Hi Kit -

Do you work as a security officer?

-Chris.



Kit_C said:


> My upgrade to a WD15EVDS (see original post below) failed, and I'm starting to think my Tivo has other issues.
> 
> After deactivating IntelliPark and restoring an image from the original 320GB drive, I was able to get the Tivo to boot and show the expected storage. But after moving the unit into my entertainment center, I got hung up on the "Welcome. Powering UP" screen. I tried installing my original 320GB drive (which was working last week), and it too is getting hung up at the welcome screen.
> 
> Is it possible for the power supply to fail in a way that I get video out, but the power to the drive is interrupted? If that's the case, I think I may have intermittent or sagging power.
> 
> Kit


----------



## unitron

lrhorer said:


> That came straight from my S3 TiVo.
> 
> Edit:
> Let me expand that. It came directly from the S3 hard drive that was upgraded by whatever tools I used to migrate from the two-disk system to a one-disk system. I'm pretty sure it was MFS_tools. I took a look at the original 250G hard drive that came with the TiVo, and indeed it does start partition 13 (MFS media region 2) at 64 sectors. The TiVo doesn't care, though, since once the kernel is loaded, all operations reference the partition map, not the absolute sector.


If you used MFS_tools, and not MFS Live, then I guess the command would have been mfsrestore? (It's been a few years since I used it). Perhaps it doesn't have, or you didn't use, the -p option, so it defaulted to the S1 layout.

(I replaced the original 80GB drive in an S2 DT with a 500, using MFS Live, but forgot the -p option. It worked, but I could never make a truncated backup from the 500.)


----------



## lrhorer

unitron said:


> If you used MFS_tools, and not MFS Live, then I guess the command would have been mfsrestore?


Probably. It could have been WinMFS. I'm pretty certain it wasn't MFS Live.



unitron said:


> (It's been a few years since I used it). Perhaps it doesn't have, or you didn't use, the -p option, so it defaulted to the S1 layout.


Yeah, me, too. There's no way I can recall that far back exactly what I did. It's far too many months and too many upgrades ago. Most recently I upgraded all three TiVos to allow insitu scripted upgrades. It wasn't difficult, but it was a bit tedious. AFAIK, none of the packaged tools allow for the necessary flexibility managing the partitions, so I had to edit the partition table manually and copy the data over by hand. The really tedious part, however, was making six semi-unique copies of everything in the Hack partitions, though. Every time I made a change, I had to copy it over - sometimes with modifications - to five other locations on 3 different boxes.


----------



## Kit_C

MCSSOLUTIONS said:


> Hi Kit -
> 
> Do you work as a security officer?
> 
> -Chris.


No, I'm an Engineer. Why do you ask?


----------



## bgc

Is there any reason not to use WinMFS or MFSlive on the hdd of a brand new, never connected Tivo? Its and S2DT off ebay that is claimed to be new. Wondering if I should connect it to Tivo first before imaging? 

I will use the image from the new one to add a new 1TB drive to my existing S2DT that has a failing hdd. I don't want to add the new one to my account because I have a discounted monthly rate that they would jack up if I put the new one on my acct.

Thanks,
BGC


----------



## crrazychicken

I've made it well past the 1.2TB with recordings and deleted items with no issues, I do have a newish PC with dual external drive docks that I hot plugged the drives in after windows booted, my TIVO is so much nicer with more than 160G of capacity. It's not full but probably at 1.6TB



richsadams said:


> Welcome to the forum. IIRC someone else tried it and it did end up flaking out...not just hitting the recording hours limit but becoming very buggy and ultimately stopped working completely. That was when 2TB drives were first introduced though...so I've no idea what might happen with newer TiVo OS versions, and current drive firmware, etc.
> 
> So if things do go south...as long as you have your original TiVo hard drive...you can follow the directions for upgrading your TiVo HD to 2TB with jmfs and you should be good to go:
> 
> Please let us know how things go with this effort though!


----------



## unitron

bgc said:


> Is there any reason not to use WinMFS or MFSlive on the hdd of a brand new, never connected Tivo? Its and S2DT off ebay that is claimed to be new. Wondering if I should connect it to Tivo first before imaging?
> 
> I will use the image from the new one to add a new 1TB drive to my existing S2DT that has a failing hdd. I don't want to add the new one to my account because I have a discounted monthly rate that they would jack up if I put the new one on my acct.
> 
> Thanks,
> BGC


If you haven't bought that TiVo off of eBay yet, you might want to plug

site:craigslist.org tivo

into Google and click on search tools on the left and choose past week, sort by date and see where some people are giving them away and others selling for $10 to $30, especially if you're just buying it to get a virgin image hard drive.

If it's not in your own community email them and ask if they'll take PayPal, including about $20 to mail it to you.

I think I understand you to mean that you aren't actually going to put the new one into service.

If it's one that's never been plugged in, take the drive out, hook to computer, do backup command to get image file (probably can do full backup rather than truncated, since no recordings yet), restore without expanding to new 1TB drive, test 1TB drive in currently subscribed S2 DT, it should come up wanting to go into guided setup. Do guided setup, make sure it works okay, then remove from subscribed TiVo, hook up to computer and do backup of what is now drive already set up for your Zip Code and cable company. Use backup just made to restore to same drive, overwriting it with newly made backup. Test in TiVo to make sure backup file is good (if not, restore from original backup and go through guided setup again), then remove, hook to computer, expand, and put back in Tivo.

Take drive from recently purchased TiVo, which has been read from but not written to, and store safely. Take recently purchased TiVo and store safely in case you ever need to scavenge power supply, or, if you're really unlucky, in case of motherboard failure you have to transplant subscribed motherboard's crypto chip to other motherboard.

If you subscribed the new one it shouldn't increase the monthly on the old one, but of course you'd have an additional monthly (although probably at Multi-Set Discount) on the newly subscribed one. You'd also have 4 tuners instead of 2, and can have TiVo in 2 rooms instead of one, and can copy shows from one to the other, or from both to computer with TiVo Desktop (which gives you a backup if the TiVo dies) and from computer to either.

Remember that backups made with WinMFS have to be restored with WinMFS, and MFS Live backups have to be restored with MFS Live.


----------



## bgc

> If it's one that's never been plugged in, take the drive out, hook to computer, do backup command to get image file (probably can do full backup rather than truncated, since no recordings yet), restore without expanding to new 1TB drive, test 1TB drive in currently subscribed S2 DT, it should come up wanting to go into guided setup. Do guided setup, make sure it works okay, then remove from subscribed TiVo, hook up to computer and do backup of what is now drive already set up for your Zip Code and cable company. Use backup just made to restore to same drive, overwriting it with newly made backup. Test in TiVo to make sure backup file is good (if not, restore from original backup and go through guided setup again), then remove, hook to computer, expand, and put back in Tivo.


The answer to a question I posted in the Help forum suggests that I can connect the new unit, do guided setup and it will have 6 days of service. I assume it will download the latest software as well. Doing this seems easier than having to move the drive from tivo to pc and back more than once.

Since I will be imaging the new tivo drive to put in the old one, I will have to do a clear and delete correct? Does the C&D require running guided setup again?

Why do you suggest to restore without expanding, test, put back in pc expand?

Thanks,
BGC


----------



## dwit

bgc said:


> Since I will be imaging the new tivo drive to put in the old one, I will have to do a clear and delete correct? Does the C&D require running guided setup again?


Yes, you will wave to cde, and yes, you will have to do guided setup, again.


----------



## bgc

> Yes, you will wave to cde, and yes, you will have to do guided setup, again.


So, what happens if I image a virgin drive (never connected unit) and put it in the old tivo? The first thing a new one wants to do is guided setup so you would have to do guided setup then C&D, then guided setup again?

BGC


----------



## thomb

unitron said:


> That number is the number on the box.
> 
> You may find the same drive in a box with a different number.
> 
> For example I have 3 (on sale the day after Thanksgiving Caviar Black) WD1001FALS drives I got from Best Buy.
> 
> The two that came from the local store say
> 
> WD10000LSRTL
> 
> on the sticker on the bottom of the box.
> 
> The third, which bestbuy.com shipped to me, says
> 
> WDBAAZ0010HNC-NRSN
> 
> on the sticker on the bottom of the box
> 
> but it's the same drive inside.
> 
> WDBAAY0010HNC-NRSN
> 
> googles up a bunch of listings, including one at Newegg, and the big version of the pictures shows the drive itself with
> 
> WD10EADS
> 
> on the label.
> 
> Oddly enough the Newegg page for the OEM/bare drive WD10EADS doesn't show any pictures of the label on the drive, just the insides of it, and they want $5 more than they're asking for the retail box version.


Yesterday at Best Buy I bought the WDBAAY0010HNC-NRSN which comes in a shiny new box that says 1TB. However when I opened the box there was a 1.5TB EARS and a small piece of paper from Western Digital that says "You have just received 500 extra gigabytes of disk space at no extra cost!".  The note is dated March 2011. I'm guessing they had over produced the 1.5's? Short story: I took it home to replace my failed 1TB and now have 237 HD hours of space available in my TivoHD :up: :up:.

Long version: Unfortunately I was to lazy to make a backup of the old drive while it was healthy (before it got sick). I tried while it was on it's death bed, but I waited too long and the backup wouldn't work in the new drive. So I had to break out my 3 year old original drive, copy it with winMFS, rerun guided setup, and download the update (original drive was on 9.xxx). Most Tivo users could have stopped here, but I had to redo my hacks to bypass CCI (thank you Frontier - which added another 30 minutes). Oh yes, then make a backup.... 

Ultimately I was smart enough to have my original drive, but not having a recent backup cost me 157 hours of recorded shows, all my season passes & wishlists, channel setup, and about 3 hours of extra time downloading, and restoring the new drive. Lesson learned.  Now to get all the season passes set up again...


----------



## WestTx

ashu said:


> Sadly, my Vantec eSATA enclosure that housed the drive for this tweak/MFS imaging was recognized (chipset issue?) at bootup/Bios/DOS drivers on the wdidle3 disk image on the 4th system on which I tried. And I tried AHCI on/off and various permutations. The system that worked was the oldest I had access to,t hat had an eSATA. Sigh.


So... the eSATA enclosure _was _recognized on the oldest computer? Or were you unable to use the enclosure for applying WDIDLE?

Does wdidle3.exe create an iso image? And you then boot from the bootable media to run the .exe? The instructions with the .zip file (and on the WD Support Page) are not clear to me.

Thanks,
Les


----------



## unitron

thomb said:


> Yesterday at Best Buy I bought the WDBAAY0010HNC-NRSN which comes in a shiny new box that says 1TB. However when I opened the box there was a 1.5TB EARS and a small piece of paper from Western Digital that says "You have just received 500 extra gigabytes of disk space at no extra cost!".  The note is dated March 2011. I'm guessing they had over produced the 1.5's? Short story: I took it home to replace my failed 1TB and now have 237 HD hours of space available in my TivoHD :up: :up:.
> 
> Long version: Unfortunately I was to lazy to make a backup of the old drive while it was healthy (before it got sick). I tried while it was on it's death bed, but I waited too long and the backup wouldn't work in the new drive. So I had to break out my 3 year old original drive, copy it with winMFS, rerun guided setup, and download the update (original drive was on 9.xxx). Most Tivo users could have stopped here, but I had to redo my hacks to bypass CCI (thank you Frontier - which added another 30 minutes). Oh yes, then make a backup....
> 
> Ultimately I was smart enough to have my original drive, but not having a recent backup cost me 157 hours of recorded shows, all my season passes & wishlists, channel setup, and about 3 hours of extra time downloading, and restoring the new drive. Lesson learned.  Now to get all the season passes set up again...


Was there anything on the sticker on that new WD about "advanced format"?


----------



## bgc

Am I correct that the MFS Live boot cd requires backups to be written to FAT32 partitions?

All my drives are NTFS. I have an 8GB usb thumb drive that is FAT32, can I write the backup to that? If so, should the thumb drive be installed before I boot the cd or after? Also, if the thumb drive will work, is there any reason not to copy the file to an NTFS partition?

Thanks,
BGC


----------



## unitron

bgc said:


> Am I correct that the MFS Live boot cd requires backups to be written to FAT32 partitions?
> 
> All my drives are NTFS. I have an 8GB usb thumb drive that is FAT32, can I write the backup to that? If so, should the thumb drive be installed before I boot the cd or after? Also, if the thumb drive will work, is there any reason not to copy the file to an NTFS partition?
> 
> Thanks,
> BGC


It requires backups to be written to file systems that it understands and can work with. For instance, it could use an Ext2 partition instead of FAT32, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't do NT.

You can use a FAT32 USB stick, and should be able to boot with it already inserted or boot and then insert it.

If you boot with it already in, it'll go through the usual procedures and get to the command prompt, and then it'll notice the USB drive (at least that's what happens with my setup), and spit out a few lines about it, at which point you'll need to hit Enter to get another command prompt.

If you boot and then insert, same thing, you'll have to let it write those several lines on the screen and then hit Enter to get back to the command prompt.

Then, of course, you'll need to mount the partition on the USB drive before reading from or writing to it.

mount -t vfat /dev/sda1 /dos

I think will do it, I'm pretty sure it creates /dos as it boots.

vfat means virtual file allocation table and should work for FAT12, FAT16, and FAT32.

You can do

ls -l /dos

to make sure it's mounted. Those are lowercase "L"s.

After you're done, unmount it and then "eject" it before removing.

umount /dos * (the command ends with /dos, not the *, see the bottom of this post)

eject /dev/sda

If you've got other SATA drives or devices connected it might detect the USB as sdb or sdc or sdd or whatever, so watch for that and adjust the instructions accordingly.

An XP or newer machine should be able to read and write from FAT32 USB to NT partition and back all day long.

* (that's umount, not unmount)


----------



## thomb

unitron said:


> Was there anything on the sticker on that new WD about "advanced format"?


Yes, on the drive there is a line directly under the s/n that says something to the effect of "Advanced format drive. To activate...." it then proceeds to list what to do for each OS.

Does it matter? It's been ok so far the last 3 days.


----------



## unitron

thomb said:


> Yes, on the drive there is a line directly under the s/n that says something to the effect of "Advanced format drive. To activate...." it then proceeds to list what to do for each OS.
> 
> Does it matter? It's been ok so far the last 3 days.


Others have expressed the opinion that it doesn't matter to the TiVo.

I don't know enough to say one way or the other.

I'm just trying to get an idea of what Western Digital is up to, and with which models, and which model families (like the EARS or the EACS or the EADS) they're up to it.

Going to the WD website for detailed info about particular drives, especially if those drives are inside a box with a different model number on the box, is an exercise in futility.

My concern is which big drives will work with XP, as I'm already maxed out TiVo interior drive wise.


----------



## thomb

unitron said:


> Others have expressed the opinion that it doesn't matter to the TiVo.
> 
> I don't know enough to say one way or the other.
> 
> I'm just trying to get an idea of what Western Digital is up to, and with which models, and which model families (like the EARS or the EACS or the EADS) they're up to it.
> 
> Going to the WD website for detailed info about particular drives, especially if those drives are inside a box with a different model number on the box, is an exercise in futility.
> 
> My concern is which big drives will work with XP, as I'm already maxed out TiVo interior drive wise.


Not sure if it makes a difference, but as another data point the drive was manufactured Jan 2011 and I ran WDIDLE3 on it prior to my backup attempt.


----------



## JavaJoe_2

Is the "Power Management/Advanced Power Management" in HDDScan the same as "Wdidle3" ??


----------



## dwit

JavaJoe_2 said:


> Is the "Power Management/Advanced Power Management" in HDDScan the same as "Wdidle3" ??


From what I have gathered here, only the Wdidle3 utility can adjust the idle timing of the WD drives.

There are several utilities that frequently seem to be mentioned for adjusting the performance characteristics of some drives, but in the case of the WD idle timing, again, I *think* only Wdidle3 utility can make that particular modification.

If you need to know how to use it, there is a helpful you tube video on "Tivo Premiere Hard Drive Upgrade" by Gary Davis(I believe I have the name right), where he uses it in the process.


----------



## TheLongshot

Just to let people know, the 1TB EARS is the shellshocker at NewEgg this morning at $49.99. Probably good until 1PM ET.

http://www.newegg.com/Special/Shell...c=EMC-SD062011-_-SD060711-_-item-_-singleitem


----------



## unitron

TheLongshot said:


> Just to let people know, the 1TB EARS is the shellshocker at NewEgg this morning at $49.99. Probably good until 1PM ET.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Special/Shell...c=EMC-SD062011-_-SD060711-_-item-_-singleitem


Just bear in mind that if getting one to stick in a computer, the EARS might be the "advanced format" kind.


----------



## adamwsh

Hey gang.

I was told the list of drives at the top of this thread is quite out of date.

Can anyone spare me reading through 200+ pages in this thread to figure out what drive I should shop for to replace my failing drive in my TivoHD?

I currently have a 1TB in there that is making a clicking noise, so I'm guessing I need to hurry and get a new drive, copy and install.

I'd like to find it locally, so I don't have to wait for mail order.

I have Best Buy, Staples, Office Depot & Walmart near by.

Any quick advise (or URLs) you can give me to find a replacement drive quickly would be most appreciated. 

Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

adamwsh said:


> Hey gang.
> 
> I was told the list of drives at the top of this thread is quite out of date.
> 
> Can anyone spare me reading through 200+ pages in this thread to figure out what drive I should shop for to replace my failing drive in my TivoHD?
> 
> I currently have a 1TB in there that is making a clicking noise, so I'm guessing I need to hurry and get a new drive, copy and install.
> 
> I'd like to find it locally, so I don't have to wait for mail order.
> 
> I have Best Buy, Staples, Office Depot & Walmart near by.
> 
> Any quick advise (or URLs) you can give me to find a replacement drive quickly would be most appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!


These are probably the two most popular...

Western Digital WD10EVDS

Western Digital WD10EARS

Besides those two drives a couple of folks are having success with this one:

Hitachi Deskstar 3.5-Inch 1 TB Cool Spin

Happy saving!


----------



## unitron

adamwsh said:


> Hey gang.
> 
> I was told the list of drives at the top of this thread is quite out of date.
> 
> Can anyone spare me reading through 200+ pages in this thread to figure out what drive I should shop for to replace my failing drive in my TivoHD?
> 
> I currently have a 1TB in there that is making a clicking noise, so I'm guessing I need to hurry and get a new drive, copy and install.
> 
> I'd like to find it locally, so I don't have to wait for mail order.
> 
> I have Best Buy, Staples, Office Depot & Walmart near by.
> 
> Any quick advise (or URLs) you can give me to find a replacement drive quickly would be most appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!


I don't think Wal-Mart sells any internal drives in store, just external ones, but it's been a while since I looked.

Looking at the online offerings, Best Buy seems to have better prices than Staples or Office Depot, which reflects my experience with the local retail locations of BB and Staples. We don't have an OD, just an OfficeMax, and they're pricey.

Are you, like me, in a small enough place not to have a Fry's or CompUSA or something like that in town?


----------



## vesprem1

Hi all,

I replaced a dying 160GB original Tivo HD (TCD652160) drive last week. Would constantly cycle from "Warming Up" to "ATJAFMM" and occasionally the video intro then back to "Warming Up" again.

Purchased a WD Caviar Green 1TB drive from Best Buy ($74.99 on sale.) Did the wdidle3 fix first then used WinMFS to copy settings (including Comcast CableCard) and all programs over. Went off without a hitch. Thanks everybody.

WD10EADS was the drive model, WDBAAY0010HNC-NRSN on the box. Some said it would be noisy but I didn't notice a significant increase in noise unless I was hovering right over it, and even then only slightly. Quality is great: looks as good as the original.

Good luck upgraders.


----------



## richsadams

vesprem1 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I replaced a dying 160GB original Tivo HD (TCD652160) drive last week. Would constantly cycle from "Warming Up" to "ATJAFMM" and occasionally the video intro then back to "Warming Up" again.
> 
> Purchased a WD Caviar Green 1TB drive from Best Buy ($74.99 on sale.) Did the wdidle3 fix first then used WinMFS to copy settings (including Comcast CableCard) and all programs over. Went off without a hitch. Thanks everybody.
> 
> WD10EADS was the drive model, WDBAAY0010HNC-NRSN on the box. Some said it would be noisy but I didn't notice a significant increase in noise unless I was hovering right over it, and even then only slightly. Quality is great: looks as good as the original.
> 
> Good luck upgraders.


Welcome to the forum. Congratulations and enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## ashu

Folks, another reminder to do the C&DE if your image (for an S3 etc) came from someone else's device!

Luckily, my VZCablceards needed no re-pairing (amazing customer service story, if you're interested) and a C&DE + Guided Setup eliminated the Error # 51 I was seeing (and my Service number shows up now, not 0000000... Unavailable!)

ETA: It is GREAT to have TiVo back after over a year of the icky Comcast 64xx and two weeks of the verizon (slightly better) 64xx! Pity I now lack the time to watcht eh 1TB worth of shows that will slowly but surely fill up my S3!


----------



## jhill1977

Can someone point me to an image for a 2TB TiVo HD (TCD652160) SINGLE DRIVE setup?

Thanks..

JH


----------



## WestTx

I'm happy to report another success story for a first-time upgrader...

The only issue I had was trying to use a Thermaltake USB/SATA enclosure. After 20 minutes the backup had written only ~3K of data and was still on Partition 10. I aborted, shut everything down, rebooted my desktop and tried again but with the same result. I had previously used the enclosure to do a truncated backup of a different TivoHD (as a trial run while waiting for the new harddrive to arrive from newegg) and had no problem. That backup took less than 10 minutes.

I was also unable to use the enclosure to run WDIDLE3.EXE after booting my HP desktop using a thumbdrive-built boot-to-DOS configuration. I kinda expected this wouldn't work based on other posts in this thread but wanted to try it anyway.

I eventually opened up my desktop and used the CD/DVD connectors on the old Tivo drive and the new WD10EVDS and the upgrade was as smooth as silk. It took just under 2 minutes to backup the old drive and about the same time to restore to the new drive. WDIDLE3.EXE was applied using the /D option and worked fine. WDIDLE3.EXE reported one drive was not a WD drive and reported the idle disabled on the new drive. I guess if my desktop's drive had been a WD drive the idle would have been disabled on it. I wondered about that before running the WD IDLE utility.

After plugging the Tivo back in, it booted up fine with all my Season Passes intact and listing all the previously recorded shows. I didn't expect the previously recorded shows to still show up in the Now Playing list so I just deleted all the entries there and in the Recently Deleted folder. Of course, those were only the show names - the recordings themselves were not on the drive because I used the Truncated Backup in WinMFS. So I suppose I'm all done now.

I do appreciate all the support provided by TCF and by the contributors to this upgrade thread in particular. Thanks!

One thing more... the first backup I did (the trial run) resulted in a backup file of just over 47MB. The backup on the Tivo I upgraded is 477MB. Can someone tell me why such a difference in backup sizes? Maybe the first backup (using the USB/SATA enclosure) was not really complete although winmfs reported complete?

Les


----------



## jilter

Is there enough experience to know if it is safe to put a 1.5 Tb in a TivoHD?
I think I have found the courage to go ahead and D-I-M!

Jill


----------



## unitron

jilter said:


> Is there enough experience to know if it is safe to put a 1.5 Tb in a TivoHD?
> I think I have found the courage to go ahead and D-I-M!
> 
> Jill


The answer is probably about 50 or 100 pages back, but let me add, do not do the work with a GigaByte brand motherboard.


----------



## Stuxnet

jhill1977 said:


> Can someone point me to an image for a 2TB TiVo HD (TCD652160) SINGLE DRIVE setup?JH


Try the "image thread", though most folks around here build the 2TB from their stock HDD.


----------



## jilter

unitron said:


> The answer is probably about 50 or 100 pages back, but let me add, do not do the work with a GigaByte brand motherboard.


Any possibility someone can give me the answer straight out? Pretty Please.


----------



## richsadams

jilter said:


> Is there enough experience to know if it is safe to put a 1.5 Tb in a TivoHD?
> I think I have found the courage to go ahead and D-I-M!
> 
> Jill


Safe? There are certainly a number of folks that have successfully done so.

The better bet is to just upgrade to a 2TB drive using jmfs and enjoy the extra recording space for about the same price.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## unitron

jilter said:


> Any possibility someone can give me the answer straight out? Pretty Please.


Sorry I can't drop everything, including trying to help a couple of others here with machines that are actually not working at the moment, to do your research for you, but if you Google "GigaByte HPA"*, you'll see I was trying to save you from being one of those people with non-working machines.

*HPA=Host Protected Area


----------



## jhill1977

Stuxnet said:


> Try the "image thread", though most folks around here build the 2TB from their stock HDD.


It was my understanding that the only way to make a SINGLE drive 2 gb setup was to use one if the "special images" floating around...as a TiVo HD (non XL version) is limited to approx 1.26 gb using the traditional tools. I'm not aware of a way to make a 2tb single drive setup using my stock 160gb drive. I setup my TiVo Series 3 years ago to use a pair of 1tb drives.

Justin


----------



## jhill1977

Stuxnet said:


> Try the "image thread", though most folks around here build the 2TB from their stock HDD.


Well after a bit more digging, I found the thread about using JMFS with the TiVo HD. That being said, once, I'm done with the copy/expand/supersize process, is it possible to make a truncated copy of my new 2TB TiVo HD drive with WinMFS to have as a backup? Regardless, it WOULD be nice to have a copy of the "Broflovski" 2TB TiVo image just in case.

Justin


----------



## jilter

unitron said:


> The answer is probably about 50 or 100 pages back, but let me add, do not do the work with a GigaByte brand motherboard.


Thanks for the warning.
You mean on the PC I will be using to do the upgrade to the Tivo?
How can I find out what brand MB I have?

/Novice Crossing


----------



## richsadams

jhill1977 said:


> Well after a bit more digging, I found the thread about using JMFS with the TiVo HD. That being said, once, I'm done with the copy/expand/supersize process, is it possible to make a truncated copy of my new 2TB TiVo HD drive with WinMFS to have as a backup? Regardless, it WOULD be nice to have a copy of the "Broflovski" 2TB TiVo image just in case.
> 
> Justin


Sounds like you found it, but here are the instructions for upgrading a TiVo HD to 2TB's of recording goodness...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179

You won't be able to create a truncated backup of your original image like we used to with winMFS. You already have your original drive however so just put it on the shelf for a perfect backup. You can use it to image another new drive if/when the time comes and you can always slip it back in and be back up and running in a few minutes if a new drive fails.

The jmfs program is much more elegant and easier to use than the old "Brovlofski" method and again, you have your original drive so I'm not sure why you'd want a copy.


----------



## richsadams

jilter said:


> How can I find out what brand MB I have?
> 
> /Novice Crossing


http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/236

AFAIK the GigaByte MB Unitron mentions is not commonly used in, well, commonly used PC's (Dell, Asus, etc.) so I believe the odds are you don't have it. The issue has only popped up a few times over the years.


----------



## unitron

jilter said:


> Thanks for the warning.
> You mean on the PC I will be using to do the upgrade to the Tivo?
> How can I find out what brand MB I have?
> 
> /Novice Crossing


As richsadams (all hail the drive guru) points out, if you've got a "name brand" computer, it shouldn't be a problem.

If you're hooking up drives via USB adapters, it shouldn't be a problem.

If you've got a computer you put together yourself, or the equivalent from a local shop, then it might have a GigaByte brand motherboard, in which case it'll say GigaByte on the board in letters for which you won't need a magnifying glass.

If you're opening the case and hooking drives straight to the SATA ports or IDE/PATA ribbon cables, you'll be able to see the motherboard.

My X-ray vision and ESP aren't good enough to tell from your initial post with what hardware you, or others reading this thread in the future, are going to do your (or their) TiVo wrangling, but my extensive knowledge of, and experience with, Murphy's law assures me that he was indeed an optimist, and that forewarned is forearmed, and one should learn from the mistakes of others whenever possible, if for no other reason than to increase the amount of time availible to make new and different mistakes of one's own, from which one can learn even more.


----------



## A J Ricaud

jilter said:


> How can I find out what brand MB I have?/Novice Crossing


If you don't have it already, Belarc Advisor is a free utility that will tell you your motherboard maker and a whole lot of other info about your PC's innards:
http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html


----------



## VinceA

Is there an InstantCake-like solution for people that have PCs without IDE hardware? I haven't had a need for it in a while but I'd like to be prepared if I do. The last time I used IC I had a PC with both IDE & SATA but now I'm using a SATA-only PC.


----------



## dwit

VinceA said:


> Is there an InstantCake-like solution for people that have PCs without IDE hardware? I haven't had a need for it in a while but I'd like to be prepared if I do. The last time I used IC I had a PC with both IDE & SATA but now I'm using a SATA-only PC.


Don't know for sure, but I would think there is a good chance that the IDE to SATA adapters would work. You just snap it onto the business end of the IDE drive and voila, it's now ready to plug into an SATA motherboard.

Might be an exploration of just which adapters may work, but one of them may work.


----------



## ps56k

I see several drives listed for the internal upgrade, 
so what's the current pick for a 1TB drive for a THD - quiet seek & works ?

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784#drives


----------



## ThAbtO

ps56k said:


> I see several drives listed for the internal upgrade,
> so what's the current pick for a 1TB drive for a THD - quiet seek & works ?
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784#drives


WD Green drives; range from 1TB-2TB


----------



## unitron

VinceA said:


> Is there an InstantCake-like solution for people that have PCs without IDE hardware? I haven't had a need for it in a while but I'd like to be prepared if I do. The last time I used IC I had a PC with both IDE & SATA but now I'm using a SATA-only PC.


Isn't the Instant Cake problem that the script that runs it is written to use /hdx and doesn't allow for /sdx?

Most any drive upgrade you do nowadays, you're going to want to use a SATA drive and, on S1s and S2s, an appropriate adapter (read the adapter thread), so doing the work on a SATA only computer won't necessarily be the sticking point.

You really shouldn't put yourself in the postition of having to rely on buying and using IC.

I'm not saying don't buy it, I'm saying don't be forced to.


----------



## benraymond

unitron said:


> The answer is probably about 50 or 100 pages back, but let me add, do not do the work with a GigaByte brand motherboard.


Alright, so my current only working desktop that I built has a Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD3 in it.

Is this going to be a problem with the Gigabyte HPA issue? How do I avoid it? Turn it off in Bios? Boot from the linux version of MFS?

Thanks

Ben
In my 20 minutes of perusing the Manual, I think I'm OK - I'm assuming that HPA is also Backup BIOS Image to HDD?

Backup BIOS Image to HDD the system to copy the BIOS image file to the hard drive. If the system BIOS is corrupted, it will be recovered from this image file. (Default: Disabled)


----------



## unitron

benraymond said:


> Alright, so my current only working desktop that I built has a Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD3 in it.
> 
> Is this going to be a problem with the Gigabyte HPA issue? How do I avoid it? Turn it off in Bios? Boot from the linux version of MFS?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ben
> In my 20 minutes of perusing the Manual, I think I'm OK - I'm assuming that HPA is also Backup BIOS Image to HDD?
> 
> Backup BIOS Image to HDD the system to copy the BIOS image file to the hard drive. If the system BIOS is corrupted, it will be recovered from this image file. (Default: Disabled)


There is no separate GigaByte HPA thread yet, but start reading here

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8565385#post8565385

and go forward to learn a bit more about the issue.

Short version, some GB boards apparently create a Host Protected Area, supposedly at the end of a hard drive, and back up the BIOS to it on every boot. This is in addition to, and not necessarily in any connection with, the special super-duper double secret hidden partition at the end of the drive created by XpressRecovery2.

XpressRecovery2 supposedly goes looking for space on what it thinks will be the computer's boot drive, so it starts with the Master drive on the Primary IDE (PATA) controller, goes through all the PATA drives, and then starts looking at the SATA drives.

The BIOS backup HPA function may, and probably does, follow the same rules/logic, but GigaByte ain't sayin'.

Some GB board BIOS'es seem to have an enable/disable option for the BIOS backup function, and some (like my 2 GB boards) make no mention of it whatsoever, but still create the HPA.

It may be that the enable/disable option doesn't prevent the creation of the HPA but only controls whether anything is written to it.

I suspect that the loss of a little bit of space at the end of the drive would not, in and of itself, be a problem for a TiVo (other than screwing up a "dd" of one drive to another of the same size), but when it creates the HPA it has to make some sort of a record of its existance somewhere on the drive (I think), and I suspect that it may be in a form that doesn't screw up DOS/Windows type partition tables, but is incompatible with the Apple_Partition_Map scheme used by TiVos, and heaven only knows what happens when it does it to a drive that then gets a byte-swapped Series 1 partition map.


----------



## benraymond

Thanks for the info, Unitron.

I hope that my board, with the "Backup BIOS to HD" off (by Default), will not have this problem. I will just have to see.

Thanks

Ben


----------



## unitron

benraymond said:


> Thanks for the info, Unitron.
> 
> I hope that my board, with the "Backup BIOS to HD" off (by Default), will not have this problem. I will just have to see.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ben


Experiment and report back.


----------



## adamwsh

In case anyone is looking for info on copying a TivoHD aftermarket 1TB drive to a new WD10EARS 1TB drive, you can find my experience here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8579385#post8579385


----------



## adamwsh

I just noticed that the instructions at the top of this thread tell you to do two different things to correct the Idle issue with WD green drives.

In the "V. *Internal* Drive Upgrades" section, it says to "*run "wdidle3 /D*" to disable IntelliPark"

In the "IV. Unsupported *External* Drives (also known as "Non-Verified" drives)" sections it says to "run "*wdidle3 /S300*"."

Why would it be different depending on it being internal or external?


----------



## unitron

adamwsh said:


> I just noticed that the instructions at the top of this thread tell you to do two different things to correct the Idle issue with WD green drives.
> 
> In the "V. *Internal* Drive Upgrades" section, it says to "*run "wdidle3 /D*" to disable IntelliPark"
> 
> In the "IV. Unsupported *External* Drives (also known as "Non-Verified" drives)" sections it says to "run "*wdidle3 /S300*"."
> 
> Why would it be different depending on it being internal or external?


Isn't the external always on, unless you pull the plug?

In other words, during a soft boot, it just keeps spinning and waiting for instructions, so you just need to postpone intellipark long enough for the TiVo to reboot.

That's the best theory I can come up with at the moment, based on never having used an external on a TiVo and never having needed to adjust anything on a Caviar Green since I only use them so far in computers running Tivo Desktop.

Maybe richsadams will show up and enlighten us.


----------



## empire2k

richsadams said:


> Ugh. Well, it appears that whatever happened between last September and more recently, things may be back to square one with respect to having to run wdidle3.exe to extend the timeout or disable the Intellipark feature on Western Digital GP and possibly AV/GP hard drives (of all sizes and manufacture dates) to avoid an initial boot or soft reboot problem.
> 
> FWIW I have reached out to bkdtv with regard to updating this thread's FAQ (first post), but haven't received a response to date. I'll try once more and if that doesn't work I'll contact one of the moderators for suggestions.


I'm posting my upgrade experience, just to reinforce that it would be fantastic if the FAQ (first post) could get updated...

I purchased a 1 TB Western Digital 10EURS Green drive, manufactured Jan 24 2011, to replace an ailing 750 GB Seagate that had provided 4.5 years of faithful service in my Series 3 TCD648250B. As I only own Macs, one of which can run WinXP using Bootcamp, I followed the directions for WinMFS to create a truncated backup and then restore that backup to my new drive - no problem.

However, when I put the new drive in my S3, it booted once and then would not boot again. It always hung at the "Welcome" screen. After finding a few posts mentioning that WDIDLE3 might be the answer I was able to borrow a PC from work that had SATA on the motherboard to update my WD 10EURS. After making the adjustment I haven't had a problem with either hard or soft reboots.

So, at this point, unless you have access to the correct PC hardware to run WDIDLE3 (SATA on the motherboard) it would probably be safest to avoid the WD Green drives again.

Thanks to all on this forum for maintaining such a great knowledge base!


----------



## istrategist

Bought a 1 T WD EARS from Amazon last week and got one manufactured Sep 27 2010. A big thank you to everyone who contributed to the sticky and made the upgrade easy. Only glitch was that when I reset it froze on the welcome screen, so I had to wdidle it - however, it showed some random characters when I booted from the CD, so I created a bootable USB (following steps from a google search result: CANNOT POST MY LINK BECAUSE OF LOW POST COUNT) except the last part where I used the WDIDLE3 from the iso on this site.

It seems to work, however it is showing me only 142 hours instead of 157. Remember reading somewhere that it may be that way until a software upgrade. 

Again, really appreciate the step by step detailed FAQ and guidance...


----------



## ThAbtO

istrategist said:


> It seems to work, however it is showing me only 142 hours instead of 157. Remember reading somewhere that it may be that way until a software upgrade.


It maybe you need to run supersize on the drive. If you used WinMFS, there is the supersize option. You can do it any time anyways.


----------



## adamwsh

istrategist said:


> Bought a 1 T WD EARS from Amazon last week and got one manufactured Sep 27 2010. A big thank you to everyone who contributed to the sticky and made the upgrade easy. Only glitch was that when I reset it froze on the welcome screen, so I had to wdidle it - however, it showed some random characters when I booted from the CD, so I created a bootable USB (following steps from a google search result: CANNOT POST MY LINK BECAUSE OF LOW POST COUNT) except the last part where I used the WDIDLE3 from the iso on this site.
> 
> It seems to work, however it is showing me only 142 hours instead of 157. Remember reading somewhere that it may be that way until a software upgrade.
> 
> Again, really appreciate the step by step detailed FAQ and guidance...


I posted my WD10EARS experience here.

I had the same funky characters issue. To correct it I followed the instructions that are at the top of this thread: "*If you have a newer PC, you may need to enter your PC bios and temporarily switch your SATA controller to EIDE mode from AHCI/RAID. This change is needed before a bootable DOS CD can detect the drive on some newer PCs.*"

Interesting that your USB idea did the trick!


----------



## istrategist

ThAbtO said:


> It maybe you need to run supersize on the drive. If you used WinMFS, there is the supersize option. You can do it any time anyways.


I selected that option as part of the backup restore process. Maybe I should have run it separately again later. May run it separately in a week or so...


----------



## asteinfeld

richsadams said:


> The DIY upgrade using winMFS is really quite simple and inexpensive (<$70). Most folks opt for a 1TB upgrade (although you can go slightly larger using a 1.5TB drive w/about 1.3TB being available).
> 
> <snip>
> 
> Hope that helps and happy upgrading!


A belated thanks for Rich's advice, and I'm happy to report another successful upgrade. Some notes:

1) The process of divorcing the 1 TB Expander took over an hour. I was sure the Tivo had frozen, and was about to pull the plug when it rebooted. Patience is a virtue.

2) I used a WD10EARS for the upgrade. It was manufactured 8/10, so based on this thread I decided to run WDIDLE3. Getting it to successfully run took two different computers and and several hours. I found the whole process remarkably user-unfriendly, and I'd spend a few more bucks on a different brand to avoid this step.

3) After getting past WDIDLE, the rest of the process went quite smoothly according to the FAQ, and I now have a functioning single-drive TiVo. Thanks again for your help.


----------



## richsadams

asteinfeld said:


> A belated thanks for Rich's advice, and I'm happy to report another successful upgrade. Some notes:
> 
> 1) The process of divorcing the 1 TB Expander took over an hour. I was sure the Tivo had frozen, and was about to pull the plug when it rebooted. Patience is a virtue.
> 
> 2) I used a WD10EARS for the upgrade. It was manufactured 8/10, so based on this thread I decided to run WDIDLE3. Getting it to successfully run took two different computers and and several hours. I found the whole process remarkably user-unfriendly, and I'd spend a few more bucks on a different brand to avoid this step.
> 
> 3) After getting past WDIDLE, the rest of the process went quite smoothly according to the FAQ, and I now have a functioning single-drive TiVo. Thanks again for your help.


Good points, congrats and enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## rick123

I upgraded my original 1st HD tivo with a WD 500gb drive. That WD drive lasted about 2 years before dying a slow death that allowed me to transfer most recordings prior to replacement. I replaced the 500gb with a WD10EVDS 1gb HD. This second replacement drive is still working fine.

I purchased and upgraded our second HD tivo about a year after the first. This HD tivo received a WD10EVDS 1gb model. That drive also lasted about 2 years before a no notice catastrophic fail with grinding noises etc. All recordings were lost. I will be replacing that drive today (that's why I am back visiting on BB to review procedures...) with an identical model supplied under warranty by WD.

The reason for this post is to let users know that the WD Warranty replacement process is extremely easy! All you do is look your broken drive up by serial #, if under warranty (most are 3 years with partial credit beyond I think) get an RMA number, and ship the drive back (at your cost, but USPS media mail for me was $3.12). WD will ship your replacement drive immediately if you give them a credit card number, or ship upon receiving your broken drive otherwise. I had the replacement drive in 4 days.

I imagine the other drive makers have similar policies, but I've always used WD. Are the drives failing because of quality, I don't know?. But it appears I have a lifetime supply only a few clicks away.

Best regards Tivo community.


----------



## TheLongshot

rick123 said:


> The reason for this post is to let users know that the WD Warranty replacement process is extremely easy! All you do is look your broken drive up by serial #, if under warranty (most are 3 years with partial credit beyond I think) get an RMA number, and ship the drive back (at your cost, but USPS media mail for me was $3.12). WD will ship your replacement drive immediately if you give them a credit card number, or ship upon receiving your broken drive otherwise. I had the replacement drive in 4 days.


I will second this, since I just got back the EARS that failed in my Tivo and the process was relatively painless. Now I just need to find the time to transfer everything back over and install it in the Tivo.



> I imagine the other drive makers have similar policies, but I've always used WD. Are the drives failing because of quality, I don't know?. But it appears I have a lifetime supply only a few clicks away.


Well, I do have a stack of 500GB Caviar Blues that failed in my NAS after 3-4 years, tho I suspect it happened because the ventelation was clogged with dust and it wasn't getting the airflow it needed.


----------



## unitron

rick123 said:


> I upgraded my original 1st HD tivo with a WD 500gb drive. That WD drive lasted about 2 years before dying a slow death that allowed me to transfer most recordings prior to replacement. I replaced the 500gb with a WD10EVDS 1gb HD. This second replacement drive is still working fine.
> 
> I purchased and upgraded our second HD tivo about a year after the first. This HD tivo received a WD10EVDS 1gb model. That drive also lasted about 2 years before a no notice catastrophic fail with grinding noises etc. All recordings were lost. I will be replacing that drive today (that's why I am back visiting on BB to review procedures...) with an identical model supplied under warranty by WD.
> 
> The reason for this post is to let users know that the WD Warranty replacement process is extremely easy! All you do is look your broken drive up by serial #, if under warranty (most are 3 years with partial credit beyond I think) get an RMA number, and ship the drive back (at your cost, but USPS media mail for me was $3.12). WD will ship your replacement drive immediately if you give them a credit card number, or ship upon receiving your broken drive otherwise. I had the replacement drive in 4 days.
> 
> I imagine the other drive makers have similar policies, but I've always used WD. Are the drives failing because of quality, I don't know?. But it appears I have a lifetime supply only a few clicks away.
> 
> Best regards Tivo community.


When you sent that drive via Media Mail, did the PO give you a hard time about the contents of the package?


----------



## adamwsh

I just replace a Seagate 1TB drive because it was making weird clicking noises and pauses on the screen. 

I looked into Seagate's warranty, and the drive is under warranty, but it said to use their SeaTools first to run diagnostics because they won't replace it if there is no codes upon execution of the diagnostics. I ran the SHORT and LONG tests and it did not report any errors. I even formatted it to NTFS and ran Windows 7 Checkdisk and it also did not report any trouble.

So, I guess I can't return it, even though it was making really weird noises and performing poorly.

Why would it make noises and perform poorly in my Tivo, but when running the diagnostics it does not show any problems??


----------



## rick123

unitron said:


> When you sent that drive via Media Mail, did the PO give you a hard time about the contents of the package?


I told the woman exactly what it was, she said it was media mail. " I said it was a hard disk containing data files that had failed and was being returned." The policy is old, I think it says "computer disks". But I don't think they can argue that the drive contains digital media files, which are part of the policy.


----------



## toddeades

Last night I saw that some of my recordings on my Tivo HD (with DVD explorer drive) had some problems.

I ran the SMART test on the Tivo and found that my primary drive had "FAIL 7".

so I started with this FAQ and I'm already lost on which drive to get. I want to get a 1TB drive to replace my internal. (I'll move my external drive to another Tivo as I understand I can't use it with a replace internal drive.)

Questions:
1. I'm having a hard time finding drives that match what is recommended. Is this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136236 I understand I'll need to do the tweak on the drive to make it quieter.
2. With some problems on my internal drive what kind luck will I have coping the TIVO settings over (no need for the recordings) to the new drive?

Thanks,
Todd

Long time Tivo user (going back to 2002) but have never upgraded a drive.


----------



## toddeades

toddeades said:


> Last night I saw that some of my recordings on my Tivo HD (with DVD explorer drive) had some problems.
> 
> I ran the SMART test on the Tivo and found that my primary drive had "FAIL 7".
> 
> so I started with this FAQ and I'm already lost on which drive to get. I want to get a 1TB drive to replace my internal. (I'll move my external drive to another Tivo as I understand I can't use it with a replace internal drive.)
> 
> Questions:
> 1. I'm having a hard time finding drives that match what is recommended. Is this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136236 I understand I'll need to do the tweak on the drive to make it quieter.
> 2. With some problems on my internal drive what kind luck will I have coping the TIVO settings over (no need for the recordings) to the new drive?
> 
> Thanks,
> Todd
> 
> Long time Tivo user (going back to 2002) but have never upgraded a drive.


Ok - I found this drive -

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...2136490&cm_re=WD10EARS-_-22-136-490-_-Product

I think this will work for me - just have to do the tweak so it will reboot correctly.


----------



## unitron

toddeades said:


> Last night I saw that some of my recordings on my Tivo HD (with DVD explorer drive) had some problems.
> 
> I ran the SMART test on the Tivo and found that my primary drive had "FAIL 7".
> 
> so I started with this FAQ and I'm already lost on which drive to get. I want to get a 1TB drive to replace my internal. (I'll move my external drive to another Tivo as I understand I can't use it with a replace internal drive.)
> 
> Questions:
> 1. I'm having a hard time finding drives that match what is recommended. Is this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136236 I understand I'll need to do the tweak on the drive to make it quieter.
> 2. With some problems on my internal drive what kind luck will I have coping the TIVO settings over (no need for the recordings) to the new drive?
> 
> Thanks,
> Todd
> 
> Long time Tivo user (going back to 2002) but have never upgraded a drive.


Something's wrong with that newegg listing.

WD10000CSRTL is, or at least has been, the Western Digital part number for a retail package, and at one time I'd have said that the drive inside is actually the WD10EADS.

Nowadays which WD drive you get in a particular retail box (or external enclosure) depends on which month it is, or whether Mars is in retrograde or something.

However, that is a retail box listing, and it should have a 3 year warranty, but it only says it's a one year, and in the feedback people are saying it's an OEM drive.

NE is even selling the EARS drives as bare drives with a 3 year warranty, so I'm really leery of this particular offering.

By the way, what's a " (with DVD explorer drive) "?


----------



## unitron

toddeades said:


> Ok - I found this drive -
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...2136490&cm_re=WD10EARS-_-22-136-490-_-Product
> 
> I think this will work for me - just have to do the tweak so it will reboot correctly.


Slow down, cowboy!

You're in too much of a lather to do this "right now" just when you need to take your time to do the research and get all of your ducks in a row.

You came here and asked the community. Give the community a chance to get its first cup of coffee and respond. You might learn something.

We haven't even heard from richsadams yet!


----------



## toddeades

unitron said:


> By the way, what's a " (with DVD explorer drive) "?


Sorry, I was referring to "Western Digital My DVR Expander 1 TB"

Thanks


----------



## toddeades

unitron said:


> Slow down, cowboy!
> 
> You're in too much of a lather to do this "right now" just when you need to take your time to do the research and get all of your ducks in a row.
> 
> You came here and asked the community. Give the community a chance to get its first cup of coffee and respond. You might learn something.
> 
> We haven't even heard from richsadams yet!


Noted - thanks. :up:


----------



## TheLongshot

Ok, I was up late last night getting my 1TB EARS replacement up and after running WDIDLE3 and copying stuff from the old drive with WinMFS, I did get it up on my Tivo.

One issue, tho, is that I couldn't get Supersize to work. All it returned was a message that it failed. Any clue why this is a problem?


----------



## MPSAN

unitron said:


> Slow down, cowboy!
> 
> We haven't even heard from richsadams yet!


With the weather we have been having up here, Rich may have gone outside, or to the Beach!


----------



## adamwsh

TheLongshot said:


> Ok, I was up late last night getting my 1TB EARS replacement up and after running WDIDLE3 and copying stuff from the old drive with WinMFS, I did get it up on my Tivo.
> 
> One issue, tho, is that I couldn't get Supersize to work. All it returned was a message that it failed. Any clue why this is a problem?


Were you upgrading the original small Tivo drive, or replacing an already upgraded drive. If it was the latter, the supersize specs were already copied over so it can't be done a 2nd time.


----------



## mattack

I admit this probably sounds like hypocrisy, since I often tell people "sounds like a bad drive" when they first mention having problems.. But now my TivoHD is having problems.. (I have a dead S3 too.. yes, weird..)

Lots of reboots, which makes me think of hard drive problems..

But ALSO, sometimes it gets into this weird state where it won't make new recordings (IIRC, if I try to manually record, I think it gives me error 58.. I will keep track of the #). When I'm in this state, always/usually, my Now Playing list is BLANK, except for the Recently Deleted items and netflix (if it made a recent connection I guess). Today, I tried to save a show out of recently deleted when in this state, and got a generic error, something about it might have already been deleted (probably essentially the same as the error 58 above)

Has anybody else seen these other kinds of weird issues BESIDES reboots, and it been or not been a drive issue?

Rebooting fixes it.. for a while.. and the fact that it takes so [email protected]$# long to reboot and start recording again (10+ minutes including gathering channel info) is obviously annoying.

The weird thing is, this is a drive I put in in January (checked my amazon purchases).


----------



## richsadams

adamwsh said:


> I just replace a Seagate 1TB drive because it was making weird clicking noises and pauses on the screen.
> 
> I looked into Seagate's warranty, and the drive is under warranty, but it said to use their SeaTools first to run diagnostics because they won't replace it if there is no codes upon execution of the diagnostics. I ran the SHORT and LONG tests and it did not report any errors. I even formatted it to NTFS and ran Windows 7 Checkdisk and it also did not report any trouble.
> 
> So, I guess I can't return it, even though it was making really weird noises and performing poorly.
> 
> Why would it make noises and perform poorly in my Tivo, but when running the diagnostics it does not show any problems??


I would try running some of the Kickstarts to see if anything can be resolved:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

See what the SMART test returns.

The "clicking sound" is not good, often a Seagate problem and is usually the first notification that a drive is about to fail. The reason Seatools doesn't return an error is that IIRC it's looking for sector problems, not mechanical. I would call and insist that you get a replacement. The "click of death" is well documented and Seagate should honor their warranty if for nothing else, for not meeting the acoustics standards of the drive.

If anyone is interested in what various hard drive sounds might mean, have a look and listen here...

http://datacent.com/hard_drive_sounds.php

Hope that helps and let us know how things go!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> With the weather we have been having up here, Rich may have gone outside, or to the Beach!


 Wow...you are psychic or something...the beach it was!!


----------



## unitron

richsadams said:


> Wow...you are psychic or something...the beach it was!!


So now that you're back, shake the sand out of your shoes and skivvies, and give toddeades some of that patented richsadams replacement drive wisdom.


----------



## richsadams

toddeades said:


> Last night I saw that some of my recordings on my Tivo HD (with DVD explorer drive) had some problems.
> 
> I ran the SMART test on the Tivo and found that my primary drive had "FAIL 7".
> 
> so I started with this FAQ and I'm already lost on which drive to get. I want to get a 1TB drive to replace my internal. (I'll move my external drive to another Tivo as I understand I can't use it with a replace internal drive.)
> 
> Questions:
> 1. I'm having a hard time finding drives that match what is recommended. Is this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136236 I understand I'll need to do the tweak on the drive to make it quieter.
> 2. With some problems on my internal drive what kind luck will I have coping the TIVO settings over (no need for the recordings) to the new drive?
> 
> Thanks,
> Todd
> 
> Long time Tivo user (going back to 2002) but have never upgraded a drive.


If I were to upgrade a TiVo HD today I would go with a 2TB hard drive. The additional cost is nominal for doubling the recording space. To perform a 2TB upgrade you would use the latest jmfs method...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179

By following the simple instructions the upgrade process is dead simple (easier than winMFS).

With respect to hard drives one of these two should work fine:

WD20EURS

WD20EARS

When it comes to TiVo the only difference between the two is that the WD20EURS is a dedicated A/V drive and is a bit quieter. However if you want to add one more step to the upgrade process you can easily change the Auto Acoustic Management (AAM) in the WD20EARS to match that of the WD20EURS at 128 by using HDDScan.

If the drive is manufactured after Sep 15, 2010 (and almost any you'd order now would be) you may or may not have to run wdidle3.exe to adjust the timeout to avoid the initial boot or reboot issue caused by WD's Intellipark "feature". The only way to find out would be to perform the upgrade, install the drive and see if it first boots up (may take two or three tries) and if so if it will reboot from the menu restart command. If everything goes fine, no need to run the program. If it doesn't you'd need to run it. Some just make the adjustment (as instructed on the FAQ of this thread) as a precaution.

Hope that helps and happy upgrading!


----------



## unitron

richsadams said:


> If I were to upgrade a TiVo HD today I would go with a 2TB hard drive. The additional cost is nominal for doubling the recording space. To perform a 2TB upgrade you would use the latest jmfs method...
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179
> 
> By following the simple instructions the upgrade process is dead simple (easier than winMFS).
> 
> With respect to hard drives one of these two should work fine:
> 
> WD20EURS
> 
> WD20EARS
> 
> When it comes to TiVo the only difference between the two is that the WD20EURS is a dedicated A/V drive and is a bit quieter. However if you want to add one more step to the upgrade process you can easily change the Auto Acoustic Management (AAM) in the WD20EARS to match that of the WD20EURS at 128 by using HDDScan.
> 
> If the drive is manufactured after Sep 15, 2010 (and almost any you'd order now would be) you may or may not have to run wdidle3.exe to adjust the timeout to avoid the initial boot or reboot issue caused by WD's Intellipark "feature". The only way to find out would be to perform the upgrade, install the drive and see if it first boots up (may take two or three tries) and if so if it will reboot from the menu restart command. If everything goes fine, no need to run the program. If it doesn't you'd need to run it. Some just make the adjustment (as instructed on the FAQ of this thread) as a precaution.
> 
> Hope that helps and happy upgrading!


Now *that's* service!


----------



## richsadams

mattack said:


> I admit this probably sounds like hypocrisy, since I often tell people "sounds like a bad drive" when they first mention having problems.. But now my TivoHD is having problems.. (I have a dead S3 too.. yes, weird..)
> 
> Lots of reboots, which makes me think of hard drive problems..
> 
> But ALSO, sometimes it gets into this weird state where it won't make new recordings (IIRC, if I try to manually record, I think it gives me error 58.. I will keep track of the #). When I'm in this state, always/usually, my Now Playing list is BLANK, except for the Recently Deleted items and netflix (if it made a recent connection I guess). Today, I tried to save a show out of recently deleted when in this state, and got a generic error, something about it might have already been deleted (probably essentially the same as the error 58 above)
> 
> Has anybody else seen these other kinds of weird issues BESIDES reboots, and it been or not been a drive issue?
> 
> Rebooting fixes it.. for a while.. and the fact that it takes so [email protected]$# long to reboot and start recording again (10+ minutes including gathering channel info) is obviously annoying.
> 
> The weird thing is, this is a drive I put in in January (checked my amazon purchases).


Sounds like a drive issue to me. I'd run the Kickstarts and see if it can be resolved.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

I'd also try removing everything from the mix except your TV. Disconnect the coax, wifi adapter, etc., everything except the connection to your TV and see if things improve. If they do it could be an external issue, but it could still be the hard drive. Removing incoming data may ease a drive's I/O error correction problems.

Also try plugging your TiVo directly into the wall instead of a surge protector (not recommended in any case) or UPS (highly recommended) to ensure a clean power source. TiVo is fairly sensitive to power instability.

Bottom line is that it does sound like a failing hard drive though.

Hope that helps, best of luck and let us know what you find out.


----------



## richsadams

unitron said:


> So now that you're back, shake the sand out of your shoes and skivvies, and give toddeades some of that patented richsadams replacement drive wisdom.


It's getting all of the sand off of the dogs that's _really_ time consuming!


----------



## unitron

richsadams said:


> It's getting all of the sand off of the dogs that's _really_ time consuming!


----------



## zgeist

I would like to upgrade the internal drive of my Series 3 tivo. What would be the best drive and method to use?

From what I have read so far, I can only upgrade to 1TB - but then I read this post below that implies that maybe I can upgrade to 2TB? Is there a new method for upgrading that would let me use the full 2TB or would part of that drive's space be wasted?

Also, are the two drives recommended in this post for a Tivo HD upgrade also valid for a Series 3 upgrade?

Thanks!

Tonya



richsadams said:


> If I were to upgrade a TiVo HD today I would go with a 2TB hard drive. The additional cost is nominal for doubling the recording space. To perform a 2TB upgrade you would use the latest jmfs method...
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179
> 
> By following the simple instructions the upgrade process is dead simple (easier than winMFS).
> 
> With respect to hard drives one of these two should work fine:
> 
> WD20EURS
> 
> WD20EARS
> ...


----------



## richsadams

zgeist said:


> I would like to upgrade the internal drive of my Series 3 tivo. What would be the best drive and method to use?
> 
> From what I have read so far, I can only upgrade to 1TB - but then I read this post below that implies that maybe I can upgrade to 2TB? Is there a new method for upgrading that would let me use the full 2TB or would part of that drive's space be wasted?
> 
> Also, are the two drives recommended in this post for a Tivo HD upgrade also valid for a Series 3 upgrade?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Tonya


Hi Tonya. Unfortunately jmfs doesn't work on the Series3, just the TiVo HD and Premiere. So doing a DIY upgrade using winMFS as described in the first post of this thread you can actually upgrade to about 1.3TB using a 1.5TB drive in your Series3. However most just go with 1TB.

Similar to the above 2TB recommendation these 1TB drives are most often used to upgrade the Series3:

WD10EURS

WD10EARS

Per the above post, the EURS is a dedicated A/V drive (AAM is preset to 128) and the EARS is a "normal" drive which is a little louder (but still very quiet). The AAM can also be set to 128 on the EARS drive using HDDScan. Me? I'd go with the WD10EURS for a couple of dollars more and save the fuss.

That said a couple of folks have been selling 2TB pre-imaged drives for the Series3. I haven't looked lately but DVRDude on eBay and Weaknees.com were both selling them. The cost is about double that of doing a 1TB DIY upgrade yourself, but if you really need the space, and/or don't care to deal with a little PC time, it's an option. The only downside is that by buying a pre-imaged drive (instead of using your own TiVo's drive to image a new/larger drive) you'll basically have a new TiVo. That means re-pairing cable cards and such as necessary.

Either way, be sure to sign up at TiVo.com to keep your Season Passes on line...that can save a lot of time after an upgrade.

Hope that helps and happy upgrading!


----------



## mattack

So does anybody offhand know of a drive that works in a TivoHD on sale currently?


----------



## unitron

mattack said:


> So does anybody offhand know of a drive that works in a TivoHD on sale currently?


If you go back up the page a few comments, richsadams mentions the 2TB WD20EARS and another WD drive.

The EARS is availible for $80 at a place or 3.


----------



## timmmyboi

richsadams said:


> If I were to upgrade a TiVo HD today I would go with a 2TB hard drive. The additional cost is nominal for doubling the recording space. To perform a 2TB upgrade you would use the latest jmfs method...
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179
> 
> By following the simple instructions the upgrade process is dead simple (easier than winMFS).
> 
> With respect to hard drives one of these two should work fine:
> 
> WD20EURS
> 
> WD20EARS
> 
> When it comes to TiVo the only difference between the two is that the WD20EURS is a dedicated A/V drive and is a bit quieter. However if you want to add one more step to the upgrade process you can easily change the Auto Acoustic Management (AAM) in the WD20EARS to match that of the WD20EURS at 128 by using HDDScan.
> 
> If the drive is manufactured after Sep 15, 2010 (and almost any you'd order now would be) you may or may not have to run wdidle3.exe to adjust the timeout to avoid the initial boot or reboot issue caused by WD's Intellipark "feature". The only way to find out would be to perform the upgrade, install the drive and see if it first boots up (may take two or three tries) and if so if it will reboot from the menu restart command. If everything goes fine, no need to run the program. If it doesn't you'd need to run it. Some just make the adjustment (as instructed on the FAQ of this thread) as a precaution.
> 
> Hope that helps and happy upgrading!


This is exactly what I need thanks!


----------



## adamwsh

richsadams said:


> I would try running some of the Kickstarts to see if anything can be resolved:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2
> 
> See what the SMART test returns.
> 
> The "clicking sound" is not good, often a Seagate problem and is usually the first notification that a drive is about to fail. The reason Seatools doesn't return an error is that IIRC it's looking for sector problems, not mechanical. I would call and insist that you get a replacement. The "click of death" is well documented and Seagate should honor their warranty if for nothing else, for not meeting the acoustics standards of the drive.
> 
> If anyone is interested in what various hard drive sounds might mean, have a look and listen here...
> 
> http://datacent.com/hard_drive_sounds.php
> 
> Hope that helps and let us know how things go!


Rich,
You've been busy! 
I did run the SMART test with no failure codes either.
Also, the clicking noise does not happen 100% of the time. So, what happens if I send it back to Seagate and it doesn't click for them? They'll send me back the same drive, won't they?

Thanks!


----------



## Kit_C

Following up on my earlietr post, my problem was a failed power supply. Since the problem was intermittent, I ended up sending it to WeaKnees for diagnosis and repair. The WD15EVDS (with Intellipark disabled) now boots properly and I have 1.35TB of available space.

It took WeaKnees a few days to get to my unit, but the service and communciation were great. Highly recommended.

Kit
San Diego



Kit_C said:


> My upgrade to a WD15EVDS (see original post below) failed, and I'm starting to think my Tivo has other issues.
> 
> After deactivating IntelliPark and restoring an image from the original 250GB drive, I was able to get the Tivo to boot and show the expected storage. But after moving the unit into my entertainment center, I got hung up on the "Welcome. Powering UP" screen. I tried installing my original 250GB drive (which was working last week), and it too is getting hung up at the welcome screen.
> 
> Is it possible for the power supply to fail in a way that I get video out, but the power to the drive is interrupted? If that's the case, I think I may have intermittent or sagging power.
> 
> Kit


----------



## zgeist

Thank you very much - that is exactly what I needed to know. I did see a 2TB upgrade option on Weeknees, but it looked like it was a 1TB internal drive and a 1TB external drive combo. And it was expensive.

The main reason I like the idea of upgrading the internal drive myself is that I would like to keep the recordings. I have lots of kids programs that the kids like to watch (over and over again). I've figured out how to move them off the tivo but it takes forever and they keep accumulating. And the husband is complaining that all the undeletable kids shows don't leave enough space for HIS shows! :-0

Also, I'd like to leave Comcast out of it - when they first setup our cable cards it took them literally ALL DAY and the RE-WIRED our house before they finally called someone who knew what to do and it took them 5 mins. (Of course they didn't listen to me...) And I had to show the guy how to plug in the cards and where to find the info on the tivo. Good grief.

I upgraded my Series 1 back in the day, and I think I have the instantcake Cd laying around somewhere, but I suppose it's all new now.

Thank you VERY MUCH for your time in answering my questions. I will follow the guide at the top of this thread.

Oh, and thanks for the tip about tivo.com! I didn't know that!

Cheers!



richsadams said:


> Hi Tonya. Unfortunately jmfs doesn't work on the Series3, just the TiVo HD and Premiere. So doing a DIY upgrade using winMFS as described in the first post of this thread you can actually upgrade to about 1.3TB using a 1.5TB drive in your Series3. However most just go with 1TB.
> 
> Similar to the above 2TB recommendation these 1TB drives are most often used to upgrade the Series3:
> 
> WD10EURS
> 
> WD10EARS
> 
> Per the above post, the EURS is a dedicated A/V drive (AAM is preset to 128) and the EARS is a "normal" drive which is a little louder (but still very quiet). The AAM can also be set to 128 on the EARS drive using HDDScan. Me? I'd go with the WD10EURS for a couple of dollars more and save the fuss.
> 
> That said a couple of folks have been selling 2TB pre-imaged drives for the Series3. I haven't looked lately but DVRDude on eBay and Weaknees.com were both selling them. The cost is about double that of doing a 1TB DIY upgrade yourself, but if you really need the space, and/or don't care to deal with a little PC time, it's an option. The only downside is that by buying a pre-imaged drive (instead of using your own TiVo's drive to image a new/larger drive) you'll basically have a new TiVo. That means re-pairing cable cards and such as necessary.
> 
> Either way, be sure to sign up at TiVo.com to keep your Season Passes on line...that can save a lot of time after an upgrade.
> 
> Hope that helps and happy upgrading!


----------



## richsadams

adamwsh said:


> Rich,
> You've been busy!
> I did run the SMART test with no failure codes either.
> Also, the clicking noise does not happen 100% of the time. So, what happens if I send it back to Seagate and it doesn't click for them? They'll send me back the same drive, won't they?
> 
> Thanks!


Not sure what Seagate would do. I'd guess they'd toss it in a pile of drives to be refurbished, but these days it may just go to landfill, hard to say. Either way it's probably easier for them to send a replacement than argue about it.

Just remember that in the course of testing a running drive, you have to be careful not to drop it on a hard surface as that will cause the heads to crash into the platters and that generally means some sectors will be damaged.

So let us know how things go!


----------



## richsadams

zgeist said:


> Thank you very much - that is exactly what I needed to know.


Glad to help and happy upgrading!


----------



## richsadams

Kit_C said:


> Following up on my earlietr post, my problem was a failed power supply. Since the problem was intermittent, I ended up sending it to WeaKnees for diagnosis and repair. The WD15EVDS (with Intellipark disabled) now boots properly and I have 1.35TB of available space.
> 
> It took WeaKnees a few days to get to my unit, but the service and communciation were great. Highly recommended.
> 
> Kit
> San Diego


That's good feedback Kit. :up: Glad to hear things are back to normal. Enjoy!


----------



## richsadams

timmmyboi said:


> This is exactly what I need thanks!


Sweet! Have fun with your "new" TiVo!


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Wow...you are psychic or something...the beach it was!!


Well, we went to Cannon Beach about a month ago and always stop at the Wayfarer!


----------



## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Well, we went to Cannon Beach about a month ago and always stop at the Wayfarer!


Our favorite beach!


----------



## timmmyboi

Has anyone tried one of those new 3TB drives yet and been successful? I looked around but didnt see anything on it. That'll be amazing if we can ever do that!


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Our favorite beach!


Wayfarer is our favorite restaurant. It is amazing. Everything is great and some things are there like Rex Sole that you will not see anywhere else. AFTER cooking it is Filleted at your table!.

Anyway, back to the normal discussions. I guess it is hard to decide what size drive to use any more. At 157 hours I can not imagine 1TB not being enough. All 3 of my THD's have them, but a 2 TB is so inexpensive now that you may as well get over 300 hours!


----------



## unitron

timmmyboi said:


> Has anyone tried one of those new 3TB drives yet and been successful? I looked around but didnt see anything on it. That'll be amazing if we can ever do that!


I believe it's been mentioned elsewhere that TiVos just won't recognize a 3TB drive, even with a smaller image on it.


----------



## timmmyboi

unitron said:


> I believe it's been mentioned elsewhere that TiVos just won't recognize a 3TB drive, even with a smaller image on it.


Ah okie dokie thanks!


----------



## sara135

I often see a lot of bashing of TiVo support, and I thought it would be nice to share a positive story.

Yesterday I got home from work to find all of my clocks flashing, apparently the power had went out while I was away. I turned on my Premiere and no shows were showing up on the now playing(My Shows) list and I couldn't get to any of the settings menus. I called TiVo support believing there was a problem with the box. The friendly customer service representative(CSR) determined the TiVo was having trouble accessing the internet. The CSR spent over an hour on the phone with me troubleshooting. This included re-booting the TiVo, connecting and disconnecting the network adapters, changing the network settings on the TiVo, etc. Eventually it turned out that the hub the TiVo was connected to seams to have stopped working (I'm guessing because of a power surge). All of the lights on the device still come on but it does nothing else, which is why it was hard to figure out.

So basically TiVo support went out of their way to help me with a network issue that had nothing to do with the TiVo, and they did it while being friendly the whole time.


----------



## HazelW

sara135 said:


> I often see a lot of bashing of TiVo support, and I thought it would be nice to share a positive story.
> 
> Yesterday I got home from work to find all of my clocks flashing, apparently the power had went out while I was away. I turned on my Premiere and no shows were showing up on the now playing(My Shows) list and I couldn't get to any of the settings menus. I called TiVo support believing there was a problem with the box. The friendly customer service representative(CSR) determined the TiVo was having trouble accessing the internet. The CSR spent over an hour on the phone with me troubleshooting. This included re-booting the TiVo, connecting and disconnecting the network adapters, changing the network settings on the TiVo, etc. Eventually it turned out that the hub the TiVo was connected to seams to have stopped working (I'm guessing because of a power surge). All of the lights on the device still come on but it does nothing else, which is why it was hard to figure out.
> 
> So basically TiVo support went out of their way to help me with a network issue that had nothing to do with the TiVo, and they did it while being friendly the whole time.


Are you saying that if your network is out, you can not watch previously recorded shows?


----------



## richsadams

sara135 said:


> I often see a lot of bashing of TiVo support, and I thought it would be nice to share a positive story.
> 
> Yesterday I got home from work to find all of my clocks flashing, apparently the power had went out while I was away. I turned on my Premiere and no shows were showing up on the now playing(My Shows) list and I couldn't get to any of the settings menus. I called TiVo support believing there was a problem with the box. The friendly customer service representative(CSR) determined the TiVo was having trouble accessing the internet. The CSR spent over an hour on the phone with me troubleshooting. This included re-booting the TiVo, connecting and disconnecting the network adapters, changing the network settings on the TiVo, etc. Eventually it turned out that the hub the TiVo was connected to seams to have stopped working (I'm guessing because of a power surge). All of the lights on the device still come on but it does nothing else, which is why it was hard to figure out.
> 
> So basically TiVo support went out of their way to help me with a network issue that had nothing to do with the TiVo, and they did it while being friendly the whole time.


Thanks for posting that. :up: In about a decade and maybe a dozen or less phone calls I've only had one run-in with a surly TiVo CSR. Other than that I've always had a positive experience.

I think the key with dealing with support service folks is to be as polite and good natured as possible. I cannot imagine the amount of angry and unreasonable calls CSR's (from any company) get in a day. I know I couldn't do that job. Granted, there will be the poorly trained and/or negative employee interaction now and again...humans are bound to be human...but I've almost always found that if you're nice you get nice in return. Getting someone to go the extra mile isn't always the result, but it's certainly better than the alternative.


----------



## richsadams

HazelW said:


> Are you saying that if your network is out, you can not watch previously recorded shows?


IIRC if your network is out and you have a Premiere or Premiere XL you might have to switch to the SD menus to get things working for a time. I vaguely remember having to do that once.

Other TiVo models are not dependent on the network to play recordings.


----------



## lrhorer

richsadams said:


> Not sure what Seagate would do. I'd guess they'd toss it in a pile of drives to be refurbished, but these days it may just go to landfill, hard to say.


Hopefully not landfill. It would probably make sense to send them in bulk to a recycler, though.



richsadams said:


> Either way it's probably easier for them to send a replacement than argue about it.


With a burden rate of better than $75 an hour for a qualified technician, it's also cheaper to send out the new drive (which costs them less than $20 to get off the assembly line), rather than bother with trying to diagnose or fix anything.



richsadams said:


> Just remember that in the course of testing a running drive, you have to be careful not to drop it on a hard surface as that will cause the heads to crash into the platters and that generally means some sectors will be damaged.


I will never forget: I was working as a CATV engineer in my office back in the 1980s. I had one of my personal PCs sitting next to a desk on a raised computer floor. One of the techs took a floor puller and lifted the tile on which my PC was sitting, cranking away. Rather than sit the tile back down gently, he just dropped it, killing a $1500 hard drive. It was 330 Megs. 'Not Gigs, Megs. I could have shot him. I found a used drive, 240 miles away, in Houston. I drove to Houston to pick up the drive, visiting my brother who lives near Houston along the way. On the way back to San Antonio from Houston, my car caught fire and burned to the ground.


----------



## richsadams

lrhorer said:


> I will never forget: I was working as a CATV engineer in my office back in the 1980s. I had one of my personal PCs sitting next to a desk on a raised computer floor. One of the techs took a floor puller and lifted the tile on which my PC was sitting, cranking away. Rather than sit the tile back down gently, he just dropped it, killing a $1500 hard drive. It was 330 Megs. 'Not Gigs, Megs. I could have shot him. I found a used drive, 240 miles away, in Houston. I drove to Houston to pick up the drive, visiting my brother who lives near Houston along the way. On the way back to San Antonio from Houston, my car caught fire and burned to the ground.


 Holy cow...that turned out to be one expensive hard drive!!


----------



## spamdragon

I think I may be running out of options and am hoping someone might have some good advice for me.

Two days ago, my trusty series 3 seems to have crashed. It will not boot at this point, and is stuck at "powering up." I've tried to enter the kickstart menu to check the drive - it will display the amber light and accept the two digit code, but does not seem to do anything... just sits there still powering up. I can't hear any clicking, but am suspecting the hard drive. We have been having several large electrical storms recently, and even though the unit is plugged into a very nice UPS, I still suspect that's what ultimately caused my problem.

So my first question: Can I somehow repair or replace this drive and yet copy or maintain my recordings? Heck, even if I could pull a list of what was on it prior to crash, that might be helpful. Or am I out of luck at this point? I am comfortable around computer hardware and if there's a manual process, glad to go through it.

Second: I'd prefer to upgrade it to a 2tb drive, but if I understand correctly, this is not something I can do myself without ordering a complete replacement online at significant cost..? There would be zero option to copy files or settings (other than my season passes which are already online), and I'd have to go through pairing, etc. again. Sounds like my only option to upgrade or replace myself is at the 1 or 1.3ish TB mark, right?

Anyway, I guess my main question first is really if there is a way to rescue this unit and pull the recordings off of it, even manually.

Any hope? Thanks in advance!


----------



## richsadams

spamdragon said:


> I think I may be running out of options and am hoping someone might have some good advice for me.
> 
> Two days ago, my trusty series 3 seems to have crashed. It will not boot at this point, and is stuck at "powering up." I've tried to enter the kickstart menu to check the drive - it will display the amber light and accept the two digit code, but does not seem to do anything... just sits there still powering up. I can't hear any clicking, but am suspecting the hard drive. We have been having several large electrical storms recently, and even though the unit is plugged into a very nice UPS, I still suspect that's what ultimately caused my problem.
> 
> So my first question: Can I somehow repair or replace this drive and yet copy or maintain my recordings? Heck, even if I could pull a list of what was on it prior to crash, that might be helpful. Or am I out of luck at this point? I am comfortable around computer hardware and if there's a manual process, glad to go through it.
> 
> Second: I'd prefer to upgrade it to a 2tb drive, but if I understand correctly, this is not something I can do myself without ordering a complete replacement online at significant cost..? There would be zero option to copy files or settings (other than my season passes which are already online), and I'd have to go through pairing, etc. again. Sounds like my only option to upgrade or replace myself is at the 1 or 1.3ish TB mark, right?
> 
> Anyway, I guess my main question first is really if there is a way to rescue this unit and pull the recordings off of it, even manually.
> 
> Any hope? Thanks in advance!


Sorry to hear about your Series3's troubles. These things happen. When TiVo is stuck on the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen it means the motherboard cannot communicate with the hard drive. You're correct on all counts regarding your questions, but unfortunately there isn't really a "manual way" to pull recordings and settings off of a non-functional TiVo hard drive.

Couple of questions...when you boot it up can you actually hear the hard drive spin up? You should be able to hear it with your ear to the case, but you could pull the cover to listen. It should be a building whirring sound followed by some clicking (head seeks). If it's not doing anything there are a couple of possibilities. One is that the hard drive indeed died. Another is the power supply isn't able to deliver enough power and might need replacing. The most probable problem is the hard drive though.

I'm sure you are, but be sure you're following the Kickstart directions to the letter, that's your greatest hope of getting things going and recovering your recordings...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

That said unless you can get TiVo up and running your recordings are probably lost. There is one other option that I've heard about however (although I've never dealt with this)...and that's to contact DVRDude on ebay. I've read a couple of posts that said he offered to try to save any recordings and transfer them to a new hard drive. That might allow you to recover the recordings and upgrade to 2TB's. I believe I read somewhere that weaknees.com will also try to do the same things. Either way as you mentioned, you'll have to pay the price.

Other than that if the drive is dead you'll need to get a new image from DVRUpgrade called Instant Cake. You can use that to upgrade to a 1TB or 1.5TB drive.

Hope that helps a little and let us know how it goes!


----------



## unitron

spamdragon said:


> I think I may be running out of options and am hoping someone might have some good advice for me.
> 
> Two days ago, my trusty series 3 seems to have crashed. It will not boot at this point, and is stuck at "powering up." I've tried to enter the kickstart menu to check the drive - it will display the amber light and accept the two digit code, but does not seem to do anything... just sits there still powering up. I can't hear any clicking, but am suspecting the hard drive. We have been having several large electrical storms recently, and even though the unit is plugged into a very nice UPS, I still suspect that's what ultimately caused my problem.
> 
> So my first question: Can I somehow repair or replace this drive and yet copy or maintain my recordings? Heck, even if I could pull a list of what was on it prior to crash, that might be helpful. Or am I out of luck at this point? I am comfortable around computer hardware and if there's a manual process, glad to go through it.
> 
> Second: I'd prefer to upgrade it to a 2tb drive, but if I understand correctly, this is not something I can do myself without ordering a complete replacement online at significant cost..? There would be zero option to copy files or settings (other than my season passes which are already online), and I'd have to go through pairing, etc. again. Sounds like my only option to upgrade or replace myself is at the 1 or 1.3ish TB mark, right?
> 
> Anyway, I guess my main question first is really if there is a way to rescue this unit and pull the recordings off of it, even manually.
> 
> Any hope? Thanks in advance!


richsadams is the font of all wisdom (or at least most of it) where these things are concerned, but if I were in your situation I'd remove the drive, hook it up to a computer motherboard of the "not a GigaByte brand" variety (google gigabyte hpa), boot from the MFS Live cd v1.4, and run pdisk and mfsinfo to see what they say about it, and also run the drive manufacturer's diagnostic software to see what it has to say, although since I have a voltmeter I'd first see if the TiVo's power supply was managing +5 and +12 with little to no sag with the hard drive attached.

Watch out for the front panel cable when removing and reinstalling the drive from and to the TiVo.

If you can get another drive at least as big and restore the proper image to it and get that working in the TiVo, then you might try "dd-ing" the old drives MFS partitions onto the ones on the new drive to rescue your recordings that way.

Then you could use that drive as the basis for an upgrade to a really big drive.


----------



## spamdragon

Thanks for the advice, guys. I'll try a few more things and see how I end up.

As for the drive - yes I do believe it's powering up. I can hear it spin down when I remove the power cable (is there a better way to reboot if the unit isn't responding??). 

And as for kickstart... I believe so. I am holding pause as soon as the 4 lights disappear, and I do see the yellow light. It stays on until I enter two digits, when it turns off, but nothing changes... 

Thanks again, might try removing the drive. I did upgrade it almost immediately after I got it, but that had to be at least 3, maybe 4-5 years ago...? I don't even remember which size I upgraded to at the time.

... which just made me realize that it's possible I still have the old drive stored somewhere... I can at least try swapping back to the original to see if that confirms it's a drive problem.


----------



## richsadams

spamdragon said:


> Thanks for the advice, guys. I'll try a few more things and see how I end up.
> 
> As for the drive - yes I do believe it's powering up. I can hear it spin down when I remove the power cable (is there a better way to reboot if the unit isn't responding??).
> 
> And as for kickstart... I believe so. I am holding pause as soon as the 4 lights disappear, and I do see the yellow light. It stays on until I enter two digits, when it turns off, but nothing changes...
> 
> Thanks again, might try removing the drive. I did upgrade it almost immediately after I got it, but that had to be at least 3, maybe 4-5 years ago...? I don't even remember which size I upgraded to at the time.
> 
> ... which just made me realize that it's possible I still have the old drive stored somewhere... I can at least try swapping back to the original to see if that confirms it's a drive problem.


What unitron said (and thanks for the voltage specs!). :up: Didn't realize you had already upgraded. If you do have the old drive at least you can easily slip it in and see if TiVo comes to life...confirming your current drive is misbehaving.

Worst case, you can use your original drive to upgrade again. Best bet either way is to install the original drive and let it update to the current OS version (11.0k). Then use it to image a new drive.

If you want to receive the latest update ASAP you can try forcing a connection to TiVo to see if it will download. (It may take several connections before the update will appear.)

1. TiVo Central
2. Messages and settings
3. Settings
4. Phone and network
5. Connect to the TiVo service now

Once the download has finished and loaded look at the "Last Status" line on that screen or in System Information and if it says "Pending restart" instead of a date your new software will automatically install at 2 a.m. your time. Or you can reboot TiVo and it will install the update immediately. You will see these two screens during the reboot process when it does.

You can reboot TiVo via the menu screens:

1. TiVo Central
2. Messages & Setup
3. Restart or reset system
4. Restart the TiVo DVR

Or you can simply unplug it, wait about 10 seconds for the hard drive to spin down and plug it back in.

If you do run the manufacturer diagnostics ( WD's Lifeguard?) the quick test is non-destructive so won't impact existing data.

Keep us posted!


----------



## unitron

richsadams said:


> What unitron said (and thanks for the voltage specs!). :up: ...


Of course, if it's the power supply causing the problem, it could be that the section going or gone bad isn't either of the ones that feed the hard drive, but those are the two that are easiest to check without slipping and throwing sparks.


----------



## dlfl

Speaking of voltage specs, what are the tolerances on the 5 and 12 Volts?
I think they are +/-5% on the 5V and +/-10% on the 12V. I web-searched for the 12V specs and it was surpisingly hard to find anything. I found one HDD spec but it wasn't for a drive used in TiVo's. Seems like pretty basic specs that should be readily available. I must be looking in the wrong places.


----------



## unitron

dlfl said:


> Speaking of voltage specs, what are the tolerances on the 5 and 12 Volts?
> I think they are +/-5% on the 5V and +/-10% on the 12V. I web-searched for the 12V specs and it was surpisingly hard to find anything. I found one HDD spec but it wasn't for a drive used in TiVo's. Seems like pretty basic specs that should be readily available. I must be looking in the wrong places.


Do you mean how far above and below the power supply can go (presumably under load) and still be considered good, or how much variance you can have and still expect the hard drive to perform up to par?


----------



## dlfl

Seems like those are in effect the same specs. (The power supply can't be "good" if it provides voltages outside the specs for the HDD.)

OK, I guess the PS specs could be tighter than the HDD specs. I would like to know both specs actually, although the HDD specs seem most meaningful. The important question is what limits determine that a PS should be replaced or repaired?


----------



## cjgadd3

Let me tell you my story. I got a TIVO HD on the upgrade program in Dec 2009. Worked fine but was itching to put in a bigger hard drive. Waited til May of 2010 and installed a Seagate Pipeline series 500GB. Everything was peachy for about 5 months or so. Started getting the dreaded spontaneous reboots. Figured the Seagate was junk, their reliability taking a hit after the merge with Maxtor. Ran the Seatools utility on the drive and it reported it was good. So I got a WD5000AVDS from Amazon. Again everything is fine for about 6 months or so and the reboots started again. Figured I get the WD10EVDS since that is what a lot of people use. Put it in and two weeks later, reboots for no reason. Can't take any more, put the original 160 GB back in and it's fine again. Sent the 500 GB WD back defective and they sent me a new one. Then about a month later, the original 160 GB starts rebooting! Take the 500 GB WD that I just got and use my original truncated image and put it in on July 3. You know where I going with this. Starts the rebooting again last night. Less than two weeks. Maybe a power supply issue but why would it work for while after HD swap. Looked at power supplies, but they want 100 bucks for one. Not a temp issue either as it happens when the air is on and the temps reports 41 degrees. Next move is DVR from Verizon. Thanks for letting me vent.


----------



## richsadams

cjgadd3 said:


> Let me tell you my story. I got a TIVO HD on the upgrade program in Dec 2009. Worked fine but was itching to put in a bigger hard drive. Waited til May of 2010 and installed a Seagate Pipeline series 500GB. Everything was peachy for about 5 months or so. Started getting the dreaded spontaneous reboots. Figured the Seagate was junk, their reliability taking a hit after the merge with Maxtor. Ran the Seatools utility on the drive and it reported it was good. So I got a WD5000AVDS from Amazon. Again everything is fine for about 6 months or so and the reboots started again. Figured I get the WD10EVDS since that is what a lot of people use. Put it in and two weeks later, reboots for no reason. Can't take any more, put the original 160 GB back in and it's fine again. Sent the 500 GB WD back defective and they sent me a new one. Then about a month later, the original 160 GB starts rebooting! Take the 500 GB WD that I just got and use my original truncated image and put it in on July 3. You know where I going with this. Starts the rebooting again last night. Less than two weeks. Maybe a power supply issue but why would it work for while after HD swap. Looked at power supplies, but they want 100 bucks for one. Not a temp issue either as it happens when the air is on and the temps reports 41 degrees. Next move is DVR from Verizon. Thanks for letting me vent.


Wow, that is a bizarre string of bad luck. My guess is that there is something else going on here. The odds of that many different drives failing are maybe not astronomical, but really unlikely.

Post your TiVo's setup as exactly as you can...how it's connected to everything, end-to-end. My guess is that there's something external that's causing internal problems.


----------



## unitron

cjgadd3 said:


> Let me tell you my story. I got a TIVO HD on the upgrade program in Dec 2009. Worked fine but was itching to put in a bigger hard drive. Waited til May of 2010 and installed a Seagate Pipeline series 500GB. Everything was peachy for about 5 months or so. Started getting the dreaded spontaneous reboots. Figured the Seagate was junk, their reliability taking a hit after the merge with Maxtor. Ran the Seatools utility on the drive and it reported it was good. So I got a WD5000AVDS from Amazon. Again everything is fine for about 6 months or so and the reboots started again. Figured I get the WD10EVDS since that is what a lot of people use. Put it in and two weeks later, reboots for no reason. Can't take any more, put the original 160 GB back in and it's fine again. Sent the 500 GB WD back defective and they sent me a new one. Then about a month later, the original 160 GB starts rebooting! Take the 500 GB WD that I just got and use my original truncated image and put it in on July 3. You know where I going with this. Starts the rebooting again last night. Less than two weeks. Maybe a power supply issue but why would it work for while after HD swap. Looked at power supplies, but they want 100 bucks for one. Not a temp issue either as it happens when the air is on and the temps reports 41 degrees. Next move is DVR from Verizon. Thanks for letting me vent.


Did you have this unit on a UPS during these reboots?


----------



## WebG

Q: followed these instructions to upgrade my S3's drive, but stuck on POWERING UP screen now. Please see http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=472941 if you have any advice to share.

(apologies for cross-posting, but figured it may help future users who will only pay attention/search this thread for their own similar situation. thx)


----------



## richsadams

WebG said:


> Q: followed these instructions to upgrade my S3's drive, but stuck on POWERING UP screen now. Please see http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=472941 if you have any advice to share.
> 
> (apologies for cross-posting, but figured it may help future users who will only pay attention/search this thread for their own similar situation. thx)


See my reply here...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8612222#post8612222


----------



## cjgadd3

richsadams said:


> Wow, that is a bizarre string of bad luck. My guess is that there is something else going on here. The odds of that many different drives failing are maybe not astronomical, but really unlikely.
> 
> Post your TiVo's setup as exactly as you can...how it's connected to everything, end-to-end. My guess is that there's something external that's causing internal problems.





unitron said:


> Did you have this unit on a UPS during these reboots?


I am connected to Verizon Fios. No tuning adapter. I have one M card. I use all RG6 quad core coax. The unit is on a Tripp-lite UPS. It's connected to a Sony Bravia 40" LCD by HDMI. I have attenuated the signal by 16 dB because I read somewhere that Tivo does not like a "hot" signal. Right now my numbers are anywhere form 81 to 87 signal strength and SNR is 34 or 35 dB. I might try connecting to the TV using component cables as I read somewhere that some Sony sets do not "play nice" with other components. Handshake issue, I believe. I can always tell when it's getting ready to reboot as the picture will freeze for a second just before it crashes. It happens on live TV or recorded shows. Thanks.


----------



## unitron

cjgadd3 said:


> I am connected to Verizon Fios. No tuning adapter. I have one M card. I use all RG6 quad core coax. The unit is on a Tripp-lite UPS. It's connected to a Sony Bravia 40" LCD by HDMI. I have attenuated the signal by 16 dB because I read somewhere that Tivo does not like a "hot" signal. Right now my numbers are anywhere form 81 to 87 signal strength and SNR is 34 or 35 dB. I might try connecting to the TV using component cables as I read somewhere that some Sony sets do not "play nice" with other components. Handshake issue, I believe. I can always tell when it's getting ready to reboot as the picture will freeze for a second just before it crashes. It happens on live TV or recorded shows. Thanks.


Oh, well in that case the answer is simple.

Your TiVo hates you.

(What, incredible string of co-incidences is more believable?)

If it were a motherboard issue or power supply issue it seems like it ought to go ahead and finish breaking down instead of eating a hard drive every 6 months (especially since the drive seem to be sick only while in the TiVo). Intermittents are exasperating enough to troubleshoot when the trouble only happens every few hours or days.

You aren't going to like hearing this, but my only suggestion at this point is to run it for about a month strictly over the air, no cable card, no HDMI/HDCP/anything where it has to ask permission to provide output.

In other words, eliminate as many outside variables as possible.

And just out of curiousity, do these problems seem to happen when you bring a new piece of electronic gear into the house, whether it's related at all or not?


----------



## richsadams

cjgadd3 said:


> I am connected to Verizon Fios. No tuning adapter. I have one M card. I use all RG6 quad core coax. The unit is on a Tripp-lite UPS. It's connected to a Sony Bravia 40" LCD by HDMI. I have attenuated the signal by 16 dB because I read somewhere that Tivo does not like a "hot" signal. Right now my numbers are anywhere form 81 to 87 signal strength and SNR is 34 or 35 dB. I might try connecting to the TV using component cables as I read somewhere that some Sony sets do not "play nice" with other components. Handshake issue, I believe. I can always tell when it's getting ready to reboot as the picture will freeze for a second just before it crashes. It happens on live TV or recorded shows. Thanks.


My advice coincides with some of Unitron's and is this:

First, remove the attenuator. VZ adjusted their systems a couple of years ago, reducing how "hot" their signal comes in. You should be seeing SS of about 95 to 100 across all channels. (Your SNR won't change much if any.) Then keep an eye on your RS Corrected and Uncorrected errors. Some errors are normal, a few hundred isn't unheard of, however if either start climbing (by the thousands or tens of thousands, etc.), post what you're seeing.

Yes, there have been issues with Sony TV's, TiVo and HDMI reported for quite a while (although not so much recently). It wasn't so much an HDCP issue as something particular to Sony...no one ever sorted that out. If you can run Component (YPbPr) cables for video and a TOSlink/optical cable for audio, that might help.

I'd also take the UPS out of the mix for a time...plug TiVo directly into the wall by itself (unless there's a storm brewing). Tripp Light UPS are quite good, but you never know.

Do each of activities one at a time, not in concert, for a few days or perhaps as long as it takes to see if one in particular item solves the problem.

Keep us posted.


----------



## lpwcomp

Has anyone successfully used WinMFS under Windows 2000? Even if it were just for the backup, it would be useful.


----------



## Keen

Managed to upgrade my previously upgraded Tivo from 1TB to 2TB today using the JMFS tools. Worked great, and now I've got 318 hours of TV I can record.  So happy JMFS came out, I was disappointed a year or two ago when I did my first Tivo hard drive upgrade and there was no way to make my non-XL Tivo HD a 2TB monster.


----------



## cjgadd3

richsadams said:


> My advice coincides with some of Unitron's and is this:
> 
> First, remove the attenuator. VZ adjusted their systems a couple of years ago, reducing how "hot" their signal comes in. You should be seeing SS of about 95 to 100 across all channels. (Your SNR won't change much if any.) Then keep an eye on your RS Corrected and Uncorrected errors. Some errors are normal, a few hundred isn't unheard of, however if either start climbing (by the thousands or tens of thousands, etc.), post what you're seeing.
> 
> Yes, there have been issues with Sony TV's, TiVo and HDMI reported for quite a while (although not so much recently). It wasn't so much an HDCP issue as something particular to Sony...no one ever sorted that out. If you can run Component (YPbPr) cables for video and a TOSlink/optical cable for audio, that might help.
> 
> I'd also take the UPS out of the mix for a time...plug TiVo directly into the wall by itself (unless there's a storm brewing). Tripp Light UPS are quite good, but you never know.
> 
> Do each of activities one at a time, not in concert, for a few days or perhaps as long as it takes to see if one in particular item solves the problem.
> 
> Keep us posted.


Well Rich, I'm one for instant gratification so I did everything at once. Sort of "go for broke". I took Tivo off the UPS and plugged straight in the wall. Removed all attenuators (SS went to 100 and SNR bounces from 37 to 38), and replaced the HDMI cable with component cables. It's been over 24 hours so far (knock on wood) and no reboots. RS errors corrected and uncorrected have been zero. Before I had seen numbers as high as 1900. Something I found odd that I left out of the original post was that on a reboot I would get the "welcome, powering up" greeting with the sort of sunrise background. When it went to the "just a few minutes more" screen, some times the little Tivo guy and the banner underneath would be purple on the yellow background instead of black. Sort of said to me that it was a signal problem which propted the move to component cables as I remember reading about people having problems with the HDMI ports on their Tivos. After reboot, all colors were normal. That's all to report for now. Will keep you posted. Thanks.


----------



## richsadams

cjgadd3 said:


> Well Rich, I'm one for instant gratification so I did everything at once. Sort of "go for broke". I took Tivo off the UPS and plugged straight in the wall. Removed all attenuators (SS went to 100 and SNR bounces from 37 to 38), and replaced the HDMI cable with component cables. It's been over 24 hours so far (knock on wood) and no reboots. RS errors corrected and uncorrected have been zero. Before I had seen numbers as high as 1900. Something I found odd that I left out of the original post was that on a reboot I would get the "welcome, powering up" greeting with the sort of sunrise background. When it went to the "just a few minutes more" screen, some times the little Tivo guy and the banner underneath would be purple on the yellow background instead of black. Sort of said to me that it was a signal problem which propted the move to component cables as I remember reading about people having problems with the HDMI ports on their Tivos. After reboot, all colors were normal. That's all to report for now. Will keep you posted. Thanks.


Understood. I don't think you'll need the attenuator going forward...those are normal readings. Good news about the RS Corrected and Uncorrected errors.

However if you still want to use your UPS and/or HDMI cable you could re-introduce one at a time to see if anything unusual happens.

FWIW you won't see much if any difference between the Component and HDMI PQ, however it's a very good idea to keep TiVo on a UPS.

Best of luck and keep us posted!


----------



## cjgadd3

richsadams said:


> Understood. I don't think you'll need the attenuator going forward...those are normal readings. Good news about the RS Corrected and Uncorrected errors.
> 
> However if you still want to use your UPS and/or HDMI cable you could re-introduce one at a time to see if anything unusual happens.
> 
> FWIW you won't see much if any difference between the Component and HDMI PQ, however it's a very good idea to keep TiVo on a UPS.
> 
> Best of luck and keep us posted!


Yes, I intend to put back on the UPS if it stays up for a week. And I don't see a difference between the HDMI and the component cables. Could just be my 62 year old eyes and my 720 P set!


----------



## unitron

cjgadd3 said:


> Well Rich, I'm one for instant gratification so I did everything at once. Sort of "go for broke". I took Tivo off the UPS and plugged straight in the wall. Removed all attenuators (SS went to 100 and SNR bounces from 37 to 38), and replaced the HDMI cable with component cables. It's been over 24 hours so far (knock on wood) and no reboots. RS errors corrected and uncorrected have been zero. Before I had seen numbers as high as 1900. Something I found odd that I left out of the original post was that on a reboot I would get the "welcome, powering up" greeting with the sort of sunrise background. When it went to the "just a few minutes more" screen, some times the little Tivo guy and the banner underneath would be purple on the yellow background instead of black. Sort of said to me that it was a signal problem which propted the move to component cables as I remember reading about people having problems with the HDMI ports on their Tivos. After reboot, all colors were normal. That's all to report for now. Will keep you posted. Thanks.


I once had the sunrise and few more minutes screen on an S2 DT in B&W until I wiggled the S-Video cable where it plugged into the back of the TiVo. (Had had it apart and just hooked it back up)

Apparently the luminance line was connected but the chrominance line not quite.


----------



## spamdragon

Well, I found my old S3 hard drive and swapped it back in to my unit tonight, and sure enough, it booted right up. Unfortunately, it's showing the guided setup screen, so I'm assuming I hadn't paired the cards, etc. before I upgraded the hard drive when I received it. So this is probably a practically brand new drive. FWIW, the drive I swapped it out with is a 750gb Seagate DB35 that I think I picked up years ago from weaknees. Looks like it even still has a few months of warranty left, so maybe I can eventually use the replacement to upgrade my 2nd S3... 

As far as next steps go... 

1) I am still planning on plugging in my failing drive to a PC and running a few tests on it. I seem to remember this is not a good idea under Windows 7, correct? I pulled down seatools from seagate's website, but am not sure I want to plug this right into my PC without finding a linux boot disk or something. Do I remember that correctly?

2) I'm going to probably buy and install a 1tb WD10EVCS drive when I eventually get back to full speed. Am I better off configuring/updating my original drive before I do the upgrade or copying it first, and then going through setup, etc. then? Also see #3.

3) Unitron mentioned it might be possible to dd the partitions with my recordings somehow back onto my drive. Even if this was ultimately a short term thing so I could archive through tivo desktop, I would love it if someone could point me to a good thread or two on this. I definitely had some recordings I'd love to be able to retrieve if at all possible. (Long term would be awesome, but I'll take even a short-term option to copy via tivo desktop to somewhere else).

Thanks for the advice so far guys! Nice to know it looks like the unit itself isn't dead.


----------



## richsadams

spamdragon said:


> Well, I found my old S3 hard drive and swapped it back in to my unit tonight, and sure enough, it booted right up. Unfortunately, it's showing the guided setup screen, so I'm assuming I hadn't paired the cards, etc. before I upgraded the hard drive when I received it. So this is probably a practically brand new drive. FWIW, the drive I swapped it out with is a 750gb Seagate DB35 that I think I picked up years ago from weaknees. Looks like it even still has a few months of warranty left, so maybe I can eventually use the replacement to upgrade my 2nd S3...
> 
> As far as next steps go...
> 
> 1) I am still planning on plugging in my failing drive to a PC and running a few tests on it. I seem to remember this is not a good idea under Windows 7, correct? I pulled down seatools from seagate's website, but am not sure I want to plug this right into my PC without finding a linux boot disk or something. Do I remember that correctly?


You do NOT want to use Disk Manager to get Windows to recognize the drive. That will format it and everything on the drive will be lost. You should be able to use the Seatools ISO to create a stand-alone disk to run any diagnostics.



spamdragon said:


> 2) I'm going to probably buy and install a 1tb WD10EVCS drive when I eventually get back to full speed. Am I better off configuring/updating my original drive before I do the upgrade or copying it first, and then going through setup, etc. then? Also see #3.


Yes, get your original drive up to speed...latest OS, cable card pairing, etc. That way you'll always have a drive that will one, work immediately if your new drive fails and two, that you can use to image a new drive any time.



spamdragon said:


> 3) Unitron mentioned it might be possible to dd the partitions with my recordings somehow back onto my drive. Even if this was ultimately a short term thing so I could archive through tivo desktop, I would love it if someone could point me to a good thread or two on this. I definitely had some recordings I'd love to be able to retrieve if at all possible. (Long term would be awesome, but I'll take even a short-term option to copy via tivo desktop to somewhere else).


"dd" or "ddrescue" are unix/linux programs that will make a bit-for-bit copy of an existing drive. "ddrescue" can sometimes correct corrupted data. More info here. Unitron probably has more insight on using it, the benefits and risks.

Ultimately it's a bit of a crap shoot though because without knowing what the problem is with your existing drive, you may be just copying over the same problem to a new drive. That said, your goal is to recreate the existing TiVo drive, but one that works. That's your only hope of pulling recordings off of it and onto a computer (providing they are not copy protected) using TiVo Desktop or one of the third-party programs like KMTTG.

The Seagate DB35 series of drives were outstanding. I still have one that I used initially to create an external drive for our Series3 when the Kickstart 62 hack was discovered back in the day. I was thrilled to have an additional 500GB's of space for the paltry sum of $259 for the drive (on sale) and another $50 for an Antec MX-1 enclosure! The DB35 is still working in an old Dell PC I have and use for TiVo upgrades. The biggest problem I have with it is that it's so silent I cannot tell if it's doing anything unless I look at the activity light on the front of the computer! 

Hope that helps and keep us posted.


----------



## unitron

newegg has the 20ears for 70 bucks, free shipping with promo code

EMCKCJA22


----------



## unitron

richsadams said:


> You do NOT want to use Disk Manager to get Windows to recognize the drive. That will format it and everything on the drive will be lost. You should be able to use the Seatools ISO to create a stand-alone disk to run any diagnostics.
> 
> Yes, get your original drive up to speed...latest OS, cable card pairing, etc. That way you'll always have a drive that will one, work immediately if your new drive fails and two, that you can use to image a new drive any time.
> 
> "dd" or "ddrescue" are unix/linux programs that will make a bit-for-bit copy of an existing drive. "ddrescue" can sometimes correct corrupted data. More info here. Unitron probably has more insight on using it, the benefits and risks.
> 
> Ultimately it's a bit of a crap shoot though because without knowing what the problem is with your existing drive, you may be just copying over the same problem to a new drive. That said, your goal is to recreate the existing TiVo drive, but one that works. That's your only hope of pulling recordings off of it and onto a computer (providing they are not copy protected) using TiVo Desktop or one of the third-party programs like KMTTG.
> 
> The Seagate DB35 series of drives were outstanding. I still have one that I used initially to create an external drive for our Series3 when the Kickstart 62 hack was discovered back in the day. I was thrilled to have an additional 500GB's of space for the paltry sum of $259 for the drive (on sale) and another $50 for an Antec MX-1 enclosure! The DB35 is still working in an old Dell PC I have and use for TiVo upgrades. The biggest problem I have with it is that it's so silent I cannot tell if it's doing anything unless I look at the activity light on the front of the computer!
> 
> Hope that helps and keep us posted.


I've used dd_rescue off of the MFS Live cd, but I have not yet tried out ddrescue, which is apparently more correctly referred to as Gnu ddrescue.

Here's another place that explains some of the differences between the various "dd" programs.

http://ubuntu-rescue-remix.org/node/51

There may be a dd-rescue floating around out there somewhere as well.

That's the trouble with computers and such, you have to spend all that time being careful and paying attention to details and stuff.


----------



## unitron

spamdragon said:


> Well, I found my old S3 hard drive and swapped it back in to my unit tonight, and sure enough, it booted right up. Unfortunately, it's showing the guided setup screen, so I'm assuming I hadn't paired the cards, etc. before I upgraded the hard drive when I received it. So this is probably a practically brand new drive. FWIW, the drive I swapped it out with is a 750gb Seagate DB35 that I think I picked up years ago from weaknees. Looks like it even still has a few months of warranty left, so maybe I can eventually use the replacement to upgrade my 2nd S3...
> 
> As far as next steps go...
> 
> 1) I am still planning on plugging in my failing drive to a PC and running a few tests on it. I seem to remember this is not a good idea under Windows 7, correct? I pulled down seatools from seagate's website, but am not sure I want to plug this right into my PC without finding a linux boot disk or something. Do I remember that correctly?
> 
> 2) I'm going to probably buy and install a 1tb WD10EVCS drive when I eventually get back to full speed. Am I better off configuring/updating my original drive before I do the upgrade or copying it first, and then going through setup, etc. then? Also see #3.
> 
> 3) Unitron mentioned it might be possible to dd the partitions with my recordings somehow back onto my drive. Even if this was ultimately a short term thing so I could archive through tivo desktop, I would love it if someone could point me to a good thread or two on this. I definitely had some recordings I'd love to be able to retrieve if at all possible. (Long term would be awesome, but I'll take even a short-term option to copy via tivo desktop to somewhere else).
> 
> Thanks for the advice so far guys! Nice to know it looks like the unit itself isn't dead.


The following assumes you aren't using a GigaByte brand motherboard.

I'm pretty sure that just booting Win7 with the TiVo drive attached won't do anything to it like Win2K and early XP did.

Install WinMFS.

Disconnnect the PC's internet/network connection.

Boot with the sick replacement drive installed to the PC.

Temporarily disable any anti-virus programs.

Do not use any of the Windows utilities.

Run WinMFS, select the TiVo drive, click on MFS info, see whether it says you're using partitions 2, 3, and 4 to boot from or 5, 6, and 7.

If 2-3-4, choose fixboot option 2, if 5-6-7, choose option 1.

This will set the drive to use the alternate boot partitions.

Try it in the TiVo.

If no change put it back in the PC and run whichever option you did not choose before to put things back the way they were.

This has almost no chance of solving your problem, but it did work one time for me on an S2 DT, although I'm really not sure why.

It does have the virtue of "won't make things any worse than they already are".

If you aren't too budget constrained, and if the original S3 can use a 2TB drive the way the HD can, go ahead and pick up one of those WD20EARS drives from newegg I mentioned in a post above while they're on sale.

If nothing else you can use it in the PC (Win 7 can handle it's "advanced format" 4K sectors) as one big NT partition in conjunction with TiVo Desktop as a place to back up shows.

More later.


----------



## unitron

spamdragon said:


> Well, I found my old S3 hard drive and swapped it back in to my unit tonight, and sure enough, it booted right up. Unfortunately, it's showing the guided setup screen, so I'm assuming I hadn't paired the cards, etc. before I upgraded the hard drive when I received it. So this is probably a practically brand new drive. FWIW, the drive I swapped it out with is a 750gb Seagate DB35 that I think I picked up years ago from weaknees. Looks like it even still has a few months of warranty left, so maybe I can eventually use the replacement to upgrade my 2nd S3...
> 
> As far as next steps go...
> 
> 1) I am still planning on plugging in my failing drive to a PC and running a few tests on it. I seem to remember this is not a good idea under Windows 7, correct? I pulled down seatools from seagate's website, but am not sure I want to plug this right into my PC without finding a linux boot disk or something. Do I remember that correctly?
> 
> 2) I'm going to probably buy and install a 1tb WD10EVCS drive when I eventually get back to full speed. Am I better off configuring/updating my original drive before I do the upgrade or copying it first, and then going through setup, etc. then? Also see #3.
> 
> 3) Unitron mentioned it might be possible to dd the partitions with my recordings somehow back onto my drive. Even if this was ultimately a short term thing so I could archive through tivo desktop, I would love it if someone could point me to a good thread or two on this. I definitely had some recordings I'd love to be able to retrieve if at all possible. (Long term would be awesome, but I'll take even a short-term option to copy via tivo desktop to somewhere else).
> 
> Thanks for the advice so far guys! Nice to know it looks like the unit itself isn't dead.


Once again assuming that you aren't using a GigaByte brand motherboard, this may work.

You'll need to boot from the MFS Live cd v1.4, and it would probably be best not to have your Win7 drive attached at all.

Use dd_rescue to copy the bad 750GB drive to another drive as big or bigger.

This will take a while. And then some.

If bigger, it will eventually return EOF. That means end of file, and indicates that it transferred all of the 750GB until it reached the end of it.

At this point you'll have a drive that thinks it's a 750GB, because it'll have a partition map from a 750.

Then you use dd_rescue to copy over partitions 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and VAR, which I think is 9, from the original still good TiVo drive to the new "thinks it's a 750" drive.

I'm assuming that although you may have increased the size of the swap partition, which I think is partition 8, you didn't do anything about the VAR partition and let whatever software you used for the original upgrade use the default settings, which would make it the same size on both disks.

Any partition you copy over on top of another partition has to be the same size as that partition for the partition map from the bad 750 to be accurate and the new "pretending to be a 750" to work.

If all goes well, you'll have a drive that thinks it's 750GB, that has good boot partitions, and that has the MFS partitions from the bad 750, although if you haven't already run guided setup on the original drive you'll have to do it on this one to be able to get to the Now Playing list.

If it boots in the TiVo, you can start transferring shows via Tivo desktop to the computer.

When that's finished, you can use the original Tivo drive and MFS Live or WinMFS to create a new, larger drive for the TiVo (might as well go for 1 or 2 TB) and then transfer the shows back from the computer. Or leave them on the computer and transfer them back when you're actually ready to watch them.

So, what we're doing here is assuming that the actual MFS partitions (where the shows are stored) on the bad 750 are good and that it's the TiVo booting and operating system partitions that have gone bad, and copying everything bit for bit, and then replacing the boot and OS partitions with known good ones from the original drive.


----------



## mattack

Will this one work in a Tivo HD?
http://www.frys-electronics-ads.com...itachi-2TB-Coolspin-Serial-ATA-600-Hard-Drive

Hitachi 2 TB Coolspin SATA hard drive.

I know I'll be wasting most of the space, but the 1 TB drives are typically $10 less nowadays..


----------



## richsadams

mattack said:


> Will this one work in a Tivo HD?
> http://www.frys-electronics-ads.com...itachi-2TB-Coolspin-Serial-ATA-600-Hard-Drive
> 
> Hitachi 2 TB Coolspin SATA hard drive.
> 
> I know I'll be wasting most of the space, but the 1 TB drives are typically $10 less nowadays..


IIRC one other person successfully upgraded their TiVo using this drive. Unfortunately it's too new to "rate" but I haven't seen them come back to say anything negative about it.

If you have a TiVo HD there's no reason to leave any space unused...you can fully upgrade your THD to 2TB's! See here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179

Follow the directions carefully and in no time you'll have 317 hours of HD recording goodness.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## mattack

The FAQ says this is the maximum 1 drive capacity:

Tivo HD TCD652160 1.26 TB* (1260 GB)

edit: OK, now I guess I remember. I don't do Windows. If there's a bootable-CD/DVD way of doing this (i.e. that will boot ON a Mac, but into Linux or whatever).. including the expanding part.. great.. Otherwise, I guess I end up 'wasting' the space.

and I didn't reread everything, but jmfs seems like it needs my original drive.. So I can't start with my existing expanded drive (which I did with jmfs in ~Jan or so, which is making me worried I'm having even MORE hardware probs and not "just" a drive problem) to save my recordings? If so, I'll probably just try dd-ing from the old drive to the new one.. at least to save my stuff.

edit2: rereading yet again, apparently some people are getting jmfs to work from an existing upgraded drive.


----------



## richsadams

mattack said:


> The FAQ says this is the maximum 1 drive capacity:
> 
> Tivo HD TCD652160 1.26 TB* (1260 GB)
> 
> edit: OK, now I guess I remember. I don't do Windows. If there's a bootable-CD/DVD way of doing this (i.e. that will boot ON a Mac, but into Linux or whatever).. including the expanding part.. great.. Otherwise, I guess I end up 'wasting' the space.
> 
> and I didn't reread everything, but jmfs seems like it needs my original drive.. So I can't start with my existing expanded drive (which I did with jmfs in ~Jan or so, which is making me worried I'm having even MORE hardware probs and not "just" a drive problem) to save my recordings? If so, I'll probably just try dd-ing from the old drive to the new one.. at least to save my stuff.
> 
> edit2: rereading yet again, apparently some people are getting jmfs to work from an existing upgraded drive.


The FAQ is correct in that the limit is as listed IF you're using winMFS to upgrade a TiVo. As you've seen, the link is to the jmfs upgrade thread where the limit is 2TB.

Yes, you can use jmfs to upgrade your hard drive using your already upgraded hard drive as it is smaller than the new 2TB hard drive so you can expand it again. Your recordings, settings, etc. will remain intact.

You can use a Mac for the upgrade. You'll need both your existing and your new hard drives connected at the same time. The ideal, fastest way is via SATA to the motherboard. If you have a Mac Pro you can do that. If you have an iMac, Mac Mini, etc. you'll need two SATA/USB adapters or two SATA/USB docks (or a combination of the two). If all you have is a Macbook laptop that's more challenging although some have had success. If you have access to a PC with a couple of available SATA ports on the MB that's an option as well.

The jmfs program is much easier to use than winMFS so you shouldn't have any issues. Read ALL of the directions carefully, follow them to the letter and you should have no problems. But if you do, post back here and somebody is bound to help.


----------



## husky55

I do not have enough data to find out how long a HD ( WD for instance ) last in a TivoHD. I realize that ambient temp plays a big role but Tivo is 24/7 so is 3 year about a good time to replace the HD?


----------



## richsadams

husky55 said:


> I do not have enough data to find out how long a HD ( WD for instance ) last in a TivoHD. I realize that ambient temp plays a big role but Tivo is 24/7 so is 3 year about a good time to replace the HD?


Series1's and Series2's hard drives used to last five years and more (some talk about nine years or so!) and although hard drive technology has improved the stress was far less on those units than the hi-def units place on them today. Of course as you mention, there are a lot of "outside influences" that go into the mix...heat, demand, power supply consistency and more not to mention the QC of the drive manufacturer at the time it was made.

More often than not a drive will give you some indication that things are going south...reboots, glitches, odd behavior of some nature. That usually gives you enough time to act. However other times they just quit and there go your recordings. Now that our Premiere (and yours) has a 2TB drive (and our lousy cableco opted to copy protect everything except broadcast channels I can't archive any) it boggles my mind to think about losing them all.

I'd say three years is a safe point to think about replacing a drive now. It's preventative maintenance and at the price of today's hard drives some pretty cheap insurance.


----------



## husky55

@richsadams,

Thank you for the words of wisdom. Comcast is driving me crazy with their M-Cards and copy protected channels!!!

I would lose all my UConn championships games this year ( Big East and NCAA champs in case it's not well known in the NW)  in addition to all those George Carlin performances if and when my HD gave out. I have an external ESata drive, wonder if that make the M-Card go crazy when replaced with just 1 HD.


----------



## lpwcomp

> The jmfs program is much easier to use than winMFS so you shouldn't have any issues. Read ALL of the directions carefully, follow them to the letter and you should have no problems. But if you do, post back here and somebody is bound to help.


 Since I haven't used jmfs, I can't really speak to this but I found WinMFS very easy to use. While you have to use jmfs to copy, image, and expand a 2TB drive, you must use WinMFS to Supersize it.


----------



## richsadams

lpwcomp said:


> Since I haven't used jmfs, I can't really speak to this but I found WinMFS very easy to use. While you have to use jmfs to copy, image, and expand a 2TB drive, you must use WinMFS to Supersize it.


Supersizing is just a drop down/click. winMFS is fairly easy indeed, but jmfs basically automates all of the work so it's even easier. :up: (FWIW you only have to use winMFS to Supersize TiVo HD's...it's built into jmfs for Premiere upgrades.)


----------



## richsadams

husky55 said:


> @richsadams,
> 
> Thank you for the words of wisdom. Comcast is driving me crazy with their M-Cards and copy protected channels!!!
> 
> I would lose all my UConn championships games this year ( Big East and NCAA champs in case it's not well known in the NW)  in addition to all those George Carlin performances if and when my HD gave out. I have an external ESata drive, wonder if that make the M-Card go crazy when replaced with just 1 HD.


The eSATA drive shouldn't affect the cable card.


----------



## tracker_1

I successfully upgraded TIVO HD using a an already supersized 1tb to 2tb.
I booted up using jmfs cd with both hdd's attached via sata to motherboard.
Since I had a filled up hdd I let it copy overnight so I don't know how long it took.
In the morning I used the jmfs expand option to expand the copied hdd to 2tb.
I installed the drive into the Tivo and to my surprise it showed 318 HD hrs 2779 SD hours.
It seems that if you are copying from an already supersized upgraded drive , you do not need to supersize the new drive and also you do not need the original drive with teh lastest software.

The 2tb drive I used was a Samung Model: HD204UI manufactured 09/2010.


----------



## richsadams

tracker_1 said:


> I successfully upgraded TIVO HD using a an already supersized 1tb to 2tb.
> I booted up using jmfs cd with both hdd's attached via sata to motherboard.
> Since I had a filled up hdd I let it copy overnight so I don't know how long it took.
> In the morning I used the jmfs expand option to expand the copied hdd to 2tb.
> I installed the drive into the Tivo and to my surprise it showed 318 HD hrs 2779 SD hours.
> It seems that if you are copying from an already supersized upgraded drive , you do not need to supersize the new drive and also you do not need the original drive with teh lastest software.
> 
> The 2tb drive I used was a Samung Model: HD204UI manufactured 09/2010.


Thanks for the feedback and congratulations...very nice!

You are correct, if you're upgrading from an existing upgraded drive Supersize stays intact, so no need to do it again. (I thought that was in the instructions somewhere, but perhaps not.) Plus as you found out you don't need the OEM drive with the latest software as the drive you used to image the new one was already running it. That caveat is for folks pulling their original drive off of the shelf to image a new one...jmfs won't work with older TiVo OS versions so they need to install and update their OEM drive if that's the path they're taking.

FWIW the time it takes to image a new, larger drive is the same no matter how many recordings are on the "donor" drive as it's basically a bit-for-bit copy.

I don't believe anyone else has used that particular drive to upgrade a TiVo. How does it sound; can you hear it working? The specs say 2.5 to 2.8 bels...which isn't too bad. How is the temperature on the TiVo menu? Just curious. TIA.

Congrats again and enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## wkearney99

Anyone had trouble using jmfs to copy from a 160 to a 2tb WDEARS20 drive? I've had no success trying to do it with two different drives I just purchased from Newegg. The copying craps out near the start. I've tried it on two different motherboards (a new Sandy Bridge and an older Nvidia 780). The errors don't happen at the same place. I did successfully copy from the 160 to an old 320 I had lying around.

I also tried copying from a sata attached 160 to a USB attached WDEARS20, same problem. 

I'm not sure if it's the drives being bad (which could happen) or if there's some issue with jmfs and WDEARS20 drives. Any advice?


----------



## Stuxnet

You can test the drives w/Data Lifeguard from WD... Use the "quick" and "extended" tests.

I presume you have the two drives connected directly to your mobo sata, and that your bios can handle the 2TB...


----------



## L David Matheny

Stuxnet said:


> You can test the drives w/Data Lifeguard from WD... Use the "quick" and "extended" tests.
> 
> I presume you have the two drives connected directly to your mobo sata, and that your bios can handle the 2TB...


If you think maybe your motherboard can't handle 2TB drives, check the manufacturer's site to see if there is a BIOS update for it.


----------



## unitron

wkearney99 said:


> Anyone had trouble using jmfs to copy from a 160 to a 2tb WDEARS20 drive? I've had no success trying to do it with two different drives I just purchased from Newegg. The copying craps out near the start. I've tried it on two different motherboards (a new Sandy Bridge and an older Nvidia 780). The errors don't happen at the same place. I did successfully copy from the 160 to an old 320 I had lying around.
> 
> I also tried copying from a sata attached 160 to a USB attached WDEARS20, same problem.
> 
> I'm not sure if it's the drives being bad (which could happen) or if there's some issue with jmfs and WDEARS20 drives. Any advice?


Have you tried copying from the 160 to the 320, without expanding, and making sure the 320 works in the TiVo, and then copying from the 320 to the 2TB?

I realize it doesn't really make sense, but that doesn't mean it might not work.


----------



## wkearney99

Boards are capable of supporting the drives. But even without that the USB-SATA interface can handle them. And that fails too. I've picked up a WDEURS20 and a WDEARS15 and will try them shortly. 

If that fails then I suppose the 160-320-2TB path would be worth a shot.


----------



## Stuxnet

Are your cables OK? How about power supply? No jumpers on the EARS, right? Have you tried the EARS directly connected to the mobo (no USB)? 

Be sure to test the EARS.


----------



## wkearney99

I picked up a WDEARS15 (the 1.5tb variant) from a local Microcenter and it copied perfectly. I also picked up a WDEURS20 (no WDEARS in stock) and will try that next. 

It's looking like I just got two crappy drives from Newegg. Both showed immediate SMART failures when viewed from the WD diag program. One failed out during an extended test, the other is running that test now. Looks like it's back to Newegg they'll go...

Meanwhile, the 1.5 that copied doesn't work. It just goes into a boot look. Powering up... A few minutes more... repeat. 

So what's the right process to upgrade a stock 160gb TivoHD to a new 1.5TB drive? I thought it was just use jmfs to copy, expand and supersize. Is that not the case? Whoops, looks like I'm not supposed to supersize in JMFS but use WinMFS instead.


----------



## unitron

wkearney99 said:


> I picked up a WDEARS15 (the 1.5tb variant) from a local Microcenter and it copied perfectly. I also picked up a WDEURS20 (no WDEARS in stock) and will try that next.
> 
> It's looking like I just got two crappy drives from Newegg. Back they'll go...


Before you send back that 20EARS, jumper it for "pretend to be a 512 byte sector drive" and give it one more try. Also if it's jumperable for a slower SATA speed, try that as well. Maybe we can learn something from your trouble and your troubles.


----------



## wkearney99

unitron said:


> Before you send back that 20EARS, jumper it for "pretend to be a 512 byte sector drive" and give it one more try. Also if it's jumperable for a slower SATA speed, try that as well. Maybe we can learn something from your trouble and your troubles.


Tried the 4k jumper and it had no effect. Did not try other jumpers. One drive appears to have serious problems. It craps out right quick with the extended WD test.

The other might be marginal. I may retry copying with it once it completes (if it completes) the WD diag extended test. It has run for 40 minutes and claims to need 155:16:22 more to complete. Actually it's counting upward for the completion time, making me think the drive is retrying so much it's skewing the estimate.


----------



## wkearney99

I've forgotten the joys of wading through DDB forums looking for answers. So let me cut right to it, will the TivoHD make use of a 2TB drive? I'm seeing conflicting statements regarding this.


----------



## richsadams

wkearney99 said:


> I picked up a WDEARS15 (the 1.5tb variant) from a local Microcenter and it copied perfectly. I also picked up a WDEURS20 (no WDEARS in stock) and will try that next.
> 
> It's looking like I just got two crappy drives from Newegg. Both showed immediate SMART failures when viewed from the WD diag program. One failed out during an extended test, the other is running that test now. Looks like it's back to Newegg they'll go...
> 
> Meanwhile, the 1.5 that copied doesn't work. It just goes into a boot look. Powering up... A few minutes more... repeat.
> 
> So what's the right process to upgrade a stock 160gb TivoHD to a new 1.5TB drive? I thought it was just use jmfs to copy, expand and supersize. Is that not the case? Whoops, looks like I'm not supposed to supersize in JMFS but use WinMFS instead.


To fix the boot loop odds are you will have to adjust the default time for the Intellipark feature using wdidle3.exe (which will require a direct SATA connection - not a USB dock or adapter). See the instructions on the FAQ, Section IV, #29.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160

Sorry to hear about your EARS drive issues. The WD20EARS in our Premiere XL has been working fine for more than six months now.


----------



## richsadams

wkearney99 said:


> I've forgotten the joys of wading through DDB forums looking for answers. So let me cut right to it, will the TivoHD make use of a 2TB drive? I'm seeing conflicting statements regarding this.


Yes! See this thread:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179

Follow the directions carefully and happy upgrading!


----------



## mattack

richsadams said:


> The FAQ is correct in that the limit is as listed IF you're using winMFS to upgrade a TiVo. As you've seen, the link is to the jmfs upgrade thread where the limit is 2TB.
> 
> Yes, you can use jmfs to upgrade your hard drive using your already upgraded hard drive as it is smaller than the new 2TB hard drive so you can expand it again. Your recordings, settings, etc. will remain intact.


Wait, you confused me again. From what I read from those threads -- you can ONLY get to 2 TB *with WinMFS*, not with jmfs.

You can do a "basic expansion" with jmfs.

Is my understanding correct?

(I did buy a new drive, I will probably bring the Tivo one and the dying one in tomorrow to do the transfer while I work.)


----------



## richsadams

mattack said:


> Wait, you confused me again. From what I read from those threads -- you can ONLY get to 2 TB *with WinMFS*, not with jmfs.
> 
> You can do a "basic expansion" with jmfs.
> 
> Is my understanding correct?
> 
> (I did buy a new drive, I will probably bring the Tivo one and the dying one in tomorrow to do the transfer while I work.)


Sorry for the confusion. winMFS upgrades will only allow you a maximum of 1TB plus the size of the original hard drive (1.26GB in the case of a TiVo HD). If you want to upgrade a TiVo HD to 2TB's, you would have to use the jmfs program as detailed here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179

You can use the original hard drive or a previously (winMFS) upgraded hard drive to image the new 2TB hard drive as long as the "donor" drive is running the current TiVo OS.


----------



## mattack

OK, weird. I think my dying drive *is* 2 TB, but I was unable to get it to supersize with jmfs. I'll play with it again after doing the copy.

I mean physically 2 TB, but not 2 TB as far as Tivo is concerned.


----------



## wkearney99

Ok, so the new 1.5tb drive gives me 237 HD recording hours. Is that about right for a 1.5tb drive? Will a 2tb drive give me more? Or will it just truncate down to the 1tb+160GB size? This being for a TivoHD unit, not a Premiere or S3.

As in, do I take this 2tb drive back and get a smaller one instead?


----------



## wkearney99

richsadams said:


> To fix the boot loop odds are you will have to adjust the default time for the Intellipark feature using wdidle3.exe (which will require a direct SATA connection - not a USB dock or adapter).


I believe I had already set that. I made a FreeDOS boot CD with wdidle3 on it. I went back and ran JMFS again, this time just using Copy and then Expand. I did not Supersize in JMFS. For that I attached the drive via a USB adapter to a Windows machine and ran winMFS against it. I used winMFS to Supersize it.

It booted properly the first time (no looping).

It shows 237 HD hours capacity. Is that about right for a 1.5tb drive?


----------



## lpwcomp

237 sounds right. I got 157 on a 1TB and people have reported 317 for 2TB.


----------



## richsadams

wkearney99 said:


> Ok, so the new 1.5tb drive gives me 237 HD recording hours. Is that about right for a 1.5tb drive?


That's the correct amount of HD recording hours for a 1.5TB drive.



wkearney99 said:


> Will a 2tb drive give me more?


Yes, 317 to 318 hours.


----------



## richsadams

wkearney99 said:


> I believe I had already set that. I made a FreeDOS boot CD with wdidle3 on it. I went back and ran JMFS again, this time just using Copy and then Expand. I did not Supersize in JMFS. For that I attached the drive via a USB adapter to a Windows machine and ran winMFS against it. I used winMFS to Supersize it.
> 
> It booted properly the first time (no looping).
> 
> It shows 237 HD hours capacity. Is that about right for a 1.5tb drive?


See above for the answer to your last question.

Congratulations...I think...depending on what you decide to do. You're on the right road in any case. :up:


----------



## richsadams

mattack said:


> OK, weird. I think my dying drive *is* 2 TB, but I was unable to get it to supersize with jmfs. I'll play with it again after doing the copy.


Per the jmfs directions you have to use winMFS to supersize an upgraded TiVo HD hard drive.


----------



## mattack

richsadams said:


> Per the jmfs directions you have to use winMFS to supersize an upgraded TiVo HD hard drive.


But the very first post in that thread says:


> I had been running on 750GB drives in my Tivo HD's, and since I wanted to keep some shows I tried various methods of upgrading. The failures are documented here. Given our current experience, it doesn't seem possible to upgrade from an expanded drive to a 1.5TB/2.0TB drive. As of 2/8/2011, KenVa successfully sourced from an already expanded drive and retiredqwest replicated that success.


So for at least two people, it worked.

I guess I'll just do the regular copy.. (which it's doing)

BTW, I was wrong, my current drive is a 1 TB drive.. so I'm copying to a 2 TB drive (the $69.99 special at Fry's) right now. I remember the jmfs instructions say NOT to supersize.. so I'll go re-read those two tales of success again after the copy is done.

Mostly I'm just trying to confirm this isn't YET ANOTHER one of my weird power-related issues (s3 dying, s3 hard drive dying).. if it's "just" a drive dying, even only 6 months later, I'll be happy.


----------



## wkearney99

mattack said:


> Mostly I'm just trying to confirm this isn't YET ANOTHER one of my weird power-related issues (s3 dying, s3 hard drive dying).. if it's "just" a drive dying, even only 6 months later, I'll be happy.


You DO have it running from a UPS, don't you? I found all my electronic devices became a lot less unreliable when I put them on UPSes.

The one thing I had to do on most of them was open their cases and destroy the piezo buzzers. Most of the consumer grade UPSes don't have an alarm silence option. So my trust pliers made one... permanently. Just find the squawking little cylinder and give it a firm twist. It'll break right off. Sure, you're voiding the warranty, but that's the price for piece of mind when the power goes out in the middle of the night and a dozen devices start squawking like mad.


----------



## mattack

I had things running on a UPS, mostly because of my non-Tivo that can corrupt if it loses power.. But the UPS itself seems to 'go off' a lot (I hear it clicking, once in a while the alarm goes off).. but these AREN'T times I notice any other power outage.


----------



## richsadams

mattack said:


> But the very first post in that thread says:
> 
> So for at least two people, it worked.


Yes, it works now because Comer updated jmfs.


----------



## richsadams

wkearney99 said:


> You DO have it running from a UPS, don't you? I found all my electronic devices became a lot less unreliable when I put them on UPSes.
> 
> The one thing I had to do on most of them was open their cases and destroy the piezo buzzers. Most of the consumer grade UPSes don't have an alarm silence option. So my trust pliers made one... permanently. Just find the squawking little cylinder and give it a firm twist. It'll break right off. Sure, you're voiding the warranty, but that's the price for piece of mind when the power goes out in the middle of the night and a dozen devices start squawking like mad.


We use APC UPS exclusively (each TiVo has one like this.) They have been flawless for several years and all have alarm silencers, so no need to mess with them. :up:


----------



## mattack

richsadams said:


> Yes, it works now because Comer updated jmfs.


OK, I get it.. I think we're both being somewhat confusing. I was just talking about "expanding", I guess it's the "supersizing" that doesn't work..

(and 104 seems to be the latest jmfs, the same one I burned a DVD of in January.)


----------



## richsadams

mattack said:


> I had things running on a UPS, mostly because of my non-Tivo that can corrupt if it loses power.. But the UPS itself seems to 'go off' a lot (I hear it clicking, once in a while the alarm goes off).. but these AREN'T times I notice any other power outage.


It sounds like your electrical source has some issues. Have you called the power company to run some line tests?

If there continue to be problems and it were me I'd look at getting a power conditioner with battery backup like this:

http://www.abt.com/product/54797/AP...=scfroogle&utm_medium=sc&utm_campaign=froogle

They are certainly more expensive, but can really make a difference if your electricity tends to swing, spike, brown-out, etc. If it saves a few of your more expensive CE items it would be well worth it IMHO.


----------



## wkearney99

mattack said:


> I had things running on a UPS, mostly because of my non-Tivo that can corrupt if it loses power.. But the UPS itself seems to 'go off' a lot (I hear it clicking, once in a while the alarm goes off).. but these AREN'T times I notice any other power outage.


They 'go off' like that usually when the power dips. I believe brown-outs is the term. Those are often harder on the power supplies in the equipment than total power loss. The power supply has to try to 'take up the slack' and keep making it's needed voltages. Run a power supply on uneven AC voltage and it'll definitely die faster, and often fries other parts inside the box along with it. So a UPS, even a small one, can do a lot to avoid damage to your gear.

Yes, if you want to spend more, seriously consider getting UPSes with alarm silence features. But even some of APC's entry level small SOHO units don't offer it. At least not without having to manually hit the silence button. The better ones will have a front panel with an LCD and the option to silence the alarm by default. But you pay extra for this, sometimes a lot more.

The power around here is unstable enough we had a 20kw generator (runs on natural gas) installed. So the UPSes only have to run for about 30 seconds before the genset kicks in.


----------



## richsadams

mattack said:


> OK, I get it.. I think we're both being somewhat confusing. I was just talking about "expanding", I guess it's the "supersizing" that doesn't work..
> 
> (and 104 seems to be the latest jmfs, the same one I burned a DVD of in January.)


Yep, with TiVo HD's Supersizing still has to be accomplished using winMFS IF the source drive has not already been Supersized. In your case, if you're upgrading from an already upgraded 1TB drive to a 2TB drive (and assuming you Supersized the 1TB drive when you performed the original upgrade) you will NOT have to Supersize again...it remains intact.


----------



## lpwcomp

If you image a drive from an already supersized drive, you don't have to supersize the new drive.

P.S.

I see I was beaten to the punch. I am having keyboard problems and have to periodically unplug it and leave it off for a while, sometimes right in the middle of a post.


----------



## wkearney99

richsadams said:


> Yep, with TiVo HD's Supersizing still has to be accomplished using winMFS IF the source drive has not already been Supersized.


Ok, I'm going from an upgraded 750 (from the original 160) to a new WD20EURS drive. So it'll just be a copy and expand operation with jmfs? No additional supersize with WinMFS then?

It's about half-way through the copy stage now. Might be back online in time for evening programming. Of course during the summer there's really not that much to bother watching.

Update: finally completed after 7 hours. Showing 287 hours of HD recoding time, sweet! All I did was the copy and expand, no WinMFS supersize.

I have noticed an odd situation with it scanning for channels. Didn't do it when it first booted, but around 7am this morning it did. Then showed a lost signal message a few hours later. I reconnected all the cables, but won't be watching it most of the weekend. Is there a way to confirm when it loses signal like that? Or if the box reboots? Is there a way to see it's uptime? I notice in the System Info screen there are a number of timestamps, one of which is Guide View Cache and a status timestamp. Is that an indicator of uptime?


----------



## richsadams

wkearney99 said:


> Ok, I'm going from an upgraded 750 (from the original 160) to a new WD20EURS drive. So it'll just be a copy and expand operation with jmfs? No additional supersize with WinMFS then?


You won't have to Supersize your 2TB drive *IF* you Supersized your 750GB drive when you originally upgraded.


----------



## mattack

Yeah, I never supersized, since I don't run Windows.. But as I clarified above, I was only using a 1 TB drive.. I thought I was using bigger. So I presume there wasn't much if any wasted space. I'll now have wasted space, but should still be able to 'expand' somewhat beyond the 1 TB copy from the orig drive..?


----------



## richsadams

mattack said:


> Yeah, I never supersized, since I don't run Windows.. But as I clarified above, I was only using a 1 TB drive.. I thought I was using bigger. So I presume there wasn't much if any wasted space. I'll now have wasted space, but should still be able to 'expand' somewhat beyond the 1 TB copy from the orig drive..?


Yes. I can't recall the exact hours on a 2TB drive...<318 but >290 I believe.


----------



## doconeill

It's been a while since I've done one of these...but my TiVoHD that I replaced the stock drive with a bigger one early on is acting a bit sketchy with video pauses, etc. and I think I want to replace the drive again.

I thought I had replaced it with a 500GB drive at the time, but it says I have up to 106 HD hours, so I must have used a 750GB drive.

I'm not looking to go bigger really - do I still have to make certain I'm using a bigger drive? Or will the current tools handle a slightly smaller drive nowadays?

What's the current crop of decent TiVo drives? The FAQ in the first post seems pretty dated.

If I go 1GB, do I have to supersize? I don't think I did that the first time.


----------



## richsadams

doconeill said:


> It's been a while since I've done one of these...but my TiVoHD that I replaced the stock drive with a bigger one early on is acting a bit sketchy with video pauses, etc. and I think I want to replace the drive again.
> 
> I thought I had replaced it with a 500GB drive at the time, but it says I have up to 106 HD hours, so I must have used a 750GB drive.
> 
> I'm not looking to go bigger really - do I still have to make certain I'm using a bigger drive? Or will the current tools handle a slightly smaller drive nowadays?
> 
> What's the current crop of decent TiVo drives? The FAQ in the first post seems pretty dated.
> 
> If I go 1GB, do I have to supersize? I don't think I did that the first time.


 Yes, the easiest way to do it is to upgrade to a larger drive.

Here are the current 1TB recommended hard drives:

WD10EARS - Although quiet out of the box you can adjust the AAM to 128 to match WD's A/V dedicated drive line to make it quieter.

WD10EURS - A/V dedicated drive. May need the Intellipark feature adjusted.

Me? I'd go with the WD10EURS.

You could use winMFS to upgrade your current drive to 1TB:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160

With respect to 2TB hard drives one of these two should work fine:

WD20EARS

WD20EURS

You could use jmfs to upgrade your current drive to 2TB's:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968

All four Western Digital drives may need the Intellipark feature adjusted to avoid boot or menu restart hangs. See Section IV, #29 of the first post on this FAQ for details:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160

There are a couple of folks that have successfully upgraded using the latest "green" Hitachi and Samsung hard drives as well. Neither have been in service long enough to recommend but I don't see any reason why they wouldn't work fine as well. You could scroll back through the more recent posts to find the info...or the owners may chime in. (Only Western Digital employs the "Intellipark" feature so neither the Sammy or Hitachi would need any additional adjustments.)

Supersize is your choice. Since you have a TiVo HD you would have to Supersize either drive with winMFS...it's fairly easy and gets you an additional chunk of recording space.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## tracker_1

I am running an expanded supersized 2tb Samsung HDD Model: HD204UI, manufactured 09/2010.
So far so good, running smooth with the internal temp of 48C.

It is just as quite as the 1tb Hitachi it replaced


----------



## mattack

OK, bummer, with new Hitachi 2 TB drive, I'm still getting lots of reboots. (Maybe more than before!)

It's up to 287 HD hours or 2510 SD hours though.

The strange thing, that I even noticed with the old drive, is that it seems less flaky, or at least takes longer to get flaky, if I unplug the network cable. The first reboot after installing the new drive was while it was loading guide data after a manual daily call. Then sometimes it seems to reboot when it's trying to download a podcast. Though *also* I've seen it just apparently 'randomly' reboot, or even when I am trying to schedule a single recording of a show.

In other words, it's not 100% random, but happens in a lot of different places, though I *seem* to see some patterns like above. Maybe that's just my imagination though. Will leave network unplugged until after the late night talk shows though!


----------



## doconeill

Thanks for the update...off to buy the drive now!


----------



## wkearney99

So what's the cause of a blinking green LED on a TivoHD, and no video?

I came home to find my upgraded TivoHD (750gb to 2tb) not displaying anything and the green LED blinking. I rebooted it and it came up, for a while, and then rebooted. I have it running a Kickstart 57 (which it claims will take 3 hours).

Meanwhile, what's the cause of a green LED blinking?

Oh, and can I kill the 57 test? I may just yank the 2tb and put the 750 back into it. But I'd like to at least try and see if it recorded anything over the last two days and try to extract them with Tivo Desktop (or my other Tivo).


----------



## richsadams

wkearney99 said:


> So what's the cause of a blinking green LED on a TivoHD, and no video?
> 
> I came home to find my upgraded TivoHD (750gb to 2tb) not displaying anything and the green LED blinking. I rebooted it and it came up, for a while, and then rebooted. I have it running a Kickstart 57 (which it claims will take 3 hours).
> 
> Meanwhile, what's the cause of a green LED blinking?
> 
> Oh, and can I kill the 57 test? I may just yank the 2tb and put the 750 back into it. But I'd like to at least try and see if it recorded anything over the last two days and try to extract them with Tivo Desktop (or my other Tivo).


IIRC a flashing power light (green LED) means a power supply problem. Seems a little coincidental to your upgrade though, so my WAG would be something to do with the new hard drive. The next time you open the box have a look at the PS and note any distended/leaking capacitors (s/b easy to see). But again, I'd guess something is up with the drive.

The KS57 message actually says that it can take UP TO three hours to finish. More often than not it's only a short period of time, sometimes a few minutes. It is working on fixing corrupted data and isolating any bad sectors. If it finishes very quickly it either means that it cannot fix the problem or that it did not find anything wrong. Did you run the manufacturer's diagnostic on the drive before using it?

KS57 shouldn't be interrupted as it can cause data corruption that cannot be repaired. That said and if it did, you can start over again...there's no physical damage to worry about.

Based on the reboots I'd say something is amiss. It may be a problem with the hard drive itself or simply data corruption, hard to say. If you can let KS57 finish see how it goes. If it continues to be problematic you could run KS58 and/or KS54. More here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

Keep us posted!


----------



## bmal1

Hi. Just wanted to post a thank you for everyone's contribution to this thread. 

I just upgraded my second Tivo HD to a 2 TB WD AV-GP WD20EURS using JMFS and (WinMFS for supersize) and now have 318 HD hours of recordable spaceand it is running perfectly. My first Tivo HD was upgraded to 1 TB over a year ago and that is still running flawlessly. 

Anyone considering a 2 TB upgrade should go ahead and do so as it was easy and painless. I still have to make the widdle adjustment on the new drive as soon as I get my hands on a PC with a open sata drive connection. 

Thanks again and I will report any issues that may come up but I don't anticipate any.


----------



## wkearney99

The K57 finished quickly and the unit came back to life and appears to be working OK. I'll watch and see if I get any more reboots tonight. 

We did lose power to the house this weekend, but for how long I don't know. We have a generator that kicks in automatically. And this Tivo is on a UPS. So unless the generator didn't kick in right away, and power was out long enough for the UPS to die, then it shouldn't have been power related. I'll check with the neighbors about the outage duration. We get quick drops all the damned time, eff'ing Pepco power company...

I did look over the power supply, having had some S2 units suffer capacitor issues. They all looked flat on top with no bulging or other signs of problems. 

Whoops, it just spontaneously rebooted. I pulled the drive and checked, wdidle3 had not been set on it. Might that be causing the reboots? I ran the WD diags against it and a quick test passed. I'm running an extended test now (it's estimating 5 hours).

Tests completed without errors, ran "wdidle3 /d" to disable it and it's now running fine.

Curiously WinMFS would not see the drive when it was attached via a SATA-USB adapter. Did not try using a straight SATA connection, yet.


----------



## richsadams

wkearney99 said:


> The K57 finished quickly and the unit came back to life and appears to be working OK. I'll watch and see if I get any more reboots tonight.
> 
> We did lose power to the house this weekend, but for how long I don't know. We have a generator that kicks in automatically. And this Tivo is on a UPS. So unless the generator didn't kick in right away, and power was out long enough for the UPS to die, then it shouldn't have been power related. I'll check with the neighbors about the outage duration. We get quick drops all the damned time, eff'ing Pepco power company...
> 
> I did look over the power supply, having had some S2 units suffer capacitor issues. They all looked flat on top with no bulging or other signs of problems.
> 
> Whoops, it just spontaneously rebooted. I pulled the drive and checked, wdidle3 had not been set on it. Might that be causing the reboots? I ran the WD diags against it and a quick test passed. I'm running an extended test now (it's estimating 5 hours).


Hmmm...the Intellipark setting shouldn't have anything to do with reboots. Sounds like either a drive or power issue, possibly power having affected the drive, hard to say. Let us know how the diagnostics turn out.


----------



## richsadams

bmal1 said:


> Hi. Just wanted to post a thank you for everyone's contribution to this thread.
> 
> I just upgraded my second Tivo HD to a 2 TB WD AV-GP WD20EURS using JMFS and (WinMFS for supersize) and now have 318 HD hours of recordable spaceand it is running perfectly. My first Tivo HD was upgraded to 1 TB over a year ago and that is still running flawlessly.
> 
> Anyone considering a 2 TB upgrade should go ahead and do so as it was easy and painless. I still have to make the widdle adjustment on the new drive as soon as I get my hands on a PC with a open sata drive connection.
> 
> Thanks again and I will report any issues that may come up but I don't anticipate any.


Nice! Congratulations and enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## MPSAN

bmal1 said:


> Hi. Just wanted to post a thank you for everyone's contribution to this thread.
> 
> I just upgraded my second Tivo HD to a 2 TB WD AV-GP WD20EURS using JMFS and (WinMFS for supersize) and now have 318 HD hours of recordable spaceand it is running perfectly. My first Tivo HD was upgraded to 1 TB over a year ago and that is still running flawlessly.
> 
> Anyone considering a 2 TB upgrade should go ahead and do so as it was easy and painless. I still have to make the widdle adjustment on the new drive as soon as I get my hands on a PC with a open sata drive connection.
> 
> Thanks again and I will report any issues that may come up but I don't anticipate any.


At 318 hours you NEVER need to go outside again. You may want to start taking Vitamin D. Seriously, I had a lockup, that seems to be OK now after a power cycle with my 1 TB drive, and was thinking that today a 2 TB drive is about what I paid for the 1 TB drive. Glad to hear the 2 TB works well!

OH...before I forget "Hi Rich".


----------



## wkearney99

The biggest reason for us to have more capacity has been to record more kids shows. Better to have a fair number of the favorites on hand rather than resorting to watching whatever's on live. Or dealing with streaming (gawd, the tivo netflix client stinks!)


----------



## MPSAN

wkearney99 said:


> The biggest reason for us to have more capacity has been to record more kids shows. Better to have a fair number of the favorites on hand rather than resorting to watching whatever's on live. Or dealing with streaming (gawd, the tivo netflix client stinks!)


...and to think that when I was a kid my mother would just tell us to "Go out and play". How stupid, too, when we went for a ride in the car and yelled MOOOO when we saw a cow. I mean we could have been watching DVD's (if they had them then).

OH, so far I seem to be OK with the Netflix streaming but I am going to eliminate that from my subscription. I almost never use it and I did not pay all that money for a large 5.1 system and 65" Plasma to watch anything but BluRay DVD's.


----------



## richsadams

Ha, my dad always accused me of having my head buried in a Mad Magazine while we tooled through nature's wonderland. Apparently Spy Vs Spy was more interesting than the redwoods when I was 10. Silly me. :roll eyes:


----------



## wkearney99

Is there any hard to running WinMFS supersize on a drive that doesn't need it? For some stupid reason I decided it was worth trying it on my recently upgrade 2TB setup. On reboot it stayed on "Almost there" for over 40 minutes. I rebooted and ran Kickstart 58 on it. It now shows the message "Installing a service update. This will take a few minutes."

Update: it ran for a while and now seems to be fine.

The upside is it now shows 318 hours of HD recording. That's a nice bump up from the 287 it reported without having using WinMFS supersize.

Bear in mind, the previous drive was a 750 that had already been upgraded from the stock 160. So I'm not sure the advice about not needing to supersize has merit.


----------



## wkearney99

As for kids and getting outdoors, I totally agree. The only time he ends up watching anything is for about an hour before going to daycare in the morning. And having a variety of episodes is more for my benefit that his. The TV is in the same space as a home office desk I use. Seeing the same episodes again and again is something I'd rather avoid. So having more than a dozen to choose from saves my sanity (well, somewhat anyway).


----------



## lpwcomp

As I understand it, Supersize is a flag which you explicitly turn on or off rather than toggle, so no harm in turning it on even if it is already on. Sounds like you never Supersized the 750GB drive.

You did have it connected direct SATA rather than USB when you ran wdidle, right?


----------



## bmal1

wkearney99 said:


> The biggest reason for us to have more capacity has been to record more kids shows. Better to have a fair number of the favorites on hand rather than resorting to watching whatever's on live. Or dealing with streaming (gawd, the tivo netflix client stinks!)


Absolutely true about the kid shows. 85 episodes of Phineas and Ferb and counting, 3 Seasons of Star Wars the Clone Wars and I don't know how many Clifford the Big Red Dog!


----------



## wkearney99

lpwcomp said:


> As I understand it, Supersize is a flag which you explicitly turn on or off rather than toggle, so no harm in turning it on even if it is already on. Sounds like you never Supersized the 750GB drive. You did have it connected direct SATA rather than USB when you ran wdidle, right?


I had to connect it to a desktop via SATA, yes. I have a laptop with an eSATA port but WinMFS would not see the drive. Go figure.

I do not recall if the 750 was supersized or not. Is there an easy way to see that value? For the sake of completeness I could reattach the 750 and see how it was configured.

My other reason for the upgrade was noise and possible reliability issues. The 750 was a seagate and I don't know that it supported AAM. It was a bit noisy. That and from time to time I'd have some pixelization issues that seemed to be related to an increased amount of drive access noise. No click-of-death noises, just a lot more IO than I'd typically hear from it. I've had drives die in the past and figure it was better to get it out of there before it became an issue.

Also, I had to install the pin 7/8 jumper on the drive (disables advanced 4k sectors). This or it wouldn't even boot on in the TivoHD.


----------



## doconeill

Ugh...is this a bad sign? I hooked up the previous TiVo drive to my Windows 7 desktop via n internal SATA coonection .... it's in a repair screen, saying "Computer was unable to restart" and is attempting repairs.

I used an unused SATA port, and the windows drive is still hooked up.


----------



## richsadams

doconeill said:


> Ugh...is this a bad sign? I hooked up the previous TiVo drive to my Windows 7 desktop via n internal SATA coonection .... it's in a repair screen, saying "Computer was unable to restart" and is attempting repairs.
> 
> I used an unused SATA port, and the windows drive is still hooked up.


If you're attempting an upgrade go ahead and disconnect your TiVo drive. Power down and restart your computer. If it boots up okay you'll probably have to change the BIOS settings so that it boots from the correct drive.

I'd also reinstall the TiVo drive to be sure it still boots up properly.

Are you going to use winMFS to upgrade? If you were going to use jmfs you could disconnect the Windows drive completely.

What size drive did you settle on?


----------



## doconeill

I was just coming back to report. It "failed" to repair", so I disconnected the Tivo drive and it booted fine. I then booted again with it attached but explicitly booted the Windows drive (it was first, but who knows) and it booted fine. WinMFS sees the Tivo disk still.

Just in case, I still have my original backup from when I put the 750GB in, so worst case is I'm going back to the original software and get to sit through a long download


----------



## richsadams

doconeill said:


> I was just coming back to report. It "failed" to repair", so I disconnected the Tivo drive and it booted fine. I then booted again with it attached but explicitly booted the Windows drive (it was first, but who knows) and it booted fine. WinMFS sees the Tivo disk still.
> 
> Just in case, I still have my original backup from when I put the 750GB in, so worst case is I'm going back to the original software and get to sit through a long download


OkY, sounds like you're good to go then.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## doconeill

Well, that all went quickly. TiVo booted up fine. I did, however, accidentally tell it to play back a video that wouldn't still be there. It complained as I would suspect, but then it rebooted and I'm at the GSOD. I guess I confused it. 

Looks like I need to wait a while.


----------



## richsadams

doconeill said:


> Well, that all went quickly. TiVo booted up fine. I did, however, accidentally tell it to play back a video that wouldn't still be there. It complained as I would suspect, but then it rebooted and I'm at the GSOD. I guess I confused it.
> 
> Looks like I need to wait a while.


It should turn out okay...just don't unplug it while it's running KS57. It may take a while but probably won't. Worst case, you would have a do-over and start fresh.


----------



## doconeill

richsadams said:


> It should turn out okay...just don't unplug it while it's running KS57. It may take a while but probably won't. Worst case, you would have a do-over and start fresh.


Yup, that's what I figure. Way back on an older unit I did this and it didn't freak out, but it was a different model.

I probably should have wiped the rest of the programs before I removed it.

Update: Still on the GSOD. I'll give it another 45 minutes, then I'll pull and restore again.

Update 2: Well, it took a little over 3 hours, but just went I was ready to pull it, it came back. I deleted the remaining videos, and so far it looks good. It needs to re-index the guide though, as searching for programs isn't working yet.


----------



## Dr_Diablo

any suggestions on a decent external drive enclosure of a 2 TB drive?


----------



## richsadams

Dr_Diablo said:


> any suggestions on a decent external drive enclosure of a 2 TB drive?


I have a 2TB WD20EARS running in an Antec MX-1 (backup for a computer, not TiVo). Cool, calm and quiet.


----------



## richsadams

doconeill said:


> Yup, that's what I figure. Way back on an older unit I did this and it didn't freak out, but it was a different model.
> 
> I probably should have wiped the rest of the programs before I removed it.
> 
> Update: Still on the GSOD. I'll give it another 45 minutes, then I'll pull and restore again.
> 
> Update 2: Well, it took a little over 3 hours, but just went I was ready to pull it, it came back. I deleted the remaining videos, and so far it looks good. It needs to re-index the guide though, as searching for programs isn't working yet.


Good news! Let it do its housekeeping overnight and see if it isn't rarin' to go in the a.m.


----------



## wkearney99

richsadams said:


> If you were going to use jmfs you could disconnect the Windows drive completely.


I second this suggestion. It was painless to use a jmfs boot CD. The only thing I used WinMFS for was to do a final supersize once the copy and expansion was done from the old Tivo drive to the new one. That bumped me from 287 to 318 hours of HD recording. This one a WD20EURS drive (with the 4k jumper installed on pins 7-8).


----------



## steve614

wkearney99 said:


> Is there a way to see it's uptime? I notice in the System Info screen there are a number of timestamps, one of which is Guide View Cache and a status timestamp. Is that an indicator of uptime?


Look under Account & System Information / DVR Diagnostics.
Page down to the last page and look for the line 'Time Since OOB Tune Start'. This will give you an approximate time since the last reboot in seconds. You will have to calculate the hours/days/weeks from that.


----------



## bobman0330

I recently upgraded a Tivo HD with a 2 TB Barracuda Green drive. I used jmfs to copy and expand, then supersized with WinMFS. Everything seemed to go fine, except all of my recorded programs were on the new drive, which was not what I had expected.

However, I quickly noticed problems with the upgraded box. On certain channels (it seems to be only some and not others), there are occasional audio drop-outs, which slowly escalate to extended audio drop outs, brief video freezing, then finally a hard lock-up that requires disconnecting and reconnecting power to recover from. The original drive still seems to be working normally. (I heard one audio drop-out which terrified me, but I haven't had anything more serious... yet).

Any ideas what could be going wrong here? Does the fact that the Barracuda is an Advanced Format drive matter? Does Seagate have some analogue of the Intellipark feature that could be causing issues? Also, I used a Gigabyte mobo to do the upgrade. Could that have caused this problem?


----------



## unitron

bobman0330 said:


> I recently upgraded a Tivo HD with a 2 TB Barracuda Green drive. I used jmfs to copy and expand, then supersized with WinMFS. Everything seemed to go fine, except all of my recorded programs were on the new drive, which was not what I had expected.
> 
> However, I quickly noticed problems with the upgraded box. On certain channels (it seems to be only some and not others), there are occasional audio drop-outs, which slowly escalate to extended audio drop outs, brief video freezing, then finally a hard lock-up that requires disconnecting and reconnecting power to recover from. The original drive still seems to be working normally. (I heard one audio drop-out which terrified me, but I haven't had anything more serious... yet).
> 
> Any ideas what could be going wrong here? Does the fact that the Barracuda is an Advanced Format drive matter? Does Seagate have some analogue of the Intellipark feature that could be causing issues? Also, I used a Gigabyte mobo to do the upgrade. Could that have caused this problem?


If you kept the regular boot drive connected to where it usually is connected to that GigaByte board, then it might have been satisfied and not placed a Host Protected Area on any other drives.


----------



## bobman0330

unitron said:


> If you kept the regular boot drive connected to where it usually is connected to that GigaByte board, then it might have been satisfied and not placed a Host Protected Area on any other drives.


That is what I was counting on to protect me. It looks like the original drive is still running fine, so that's a relief at least.


----------



## grantsa4

Can anyone recommend a 1TB drive that they have recently upgraded to with success and they are happy with?

I want to upgrade my basic drive on my Tivo HD.

Thanks for any advice.


----------



## unitron

grantsa4 said:


> Can anyone recommend a 1TB drive that they have recently upgraded to with success and they are happy with?
> 
> I want to upgrade my basic drive on my Tivo HD.
> 
> Thanks for any advice.


I've been running WD1001FALS in a couple of dual tuner S2s for about a half a year now, but I put extra fans inside 'cause they run a little warm.


----------



## grantsa4

Thanks.

How difficult is it to add a fan?

Would I need that on a Tivo HD?

Are there any guides online showing how to do it?


----------



## richsadams

grantsa4 said:


> Can anyone recommend a 1TB drive that they have recently upgraded to with success and they are happy with?
> 
> I want to upgrade my basic drive on my Tivo HD.
> 
> Thanks for any advice.


Here are the current 1TB recommended hard drives:

WD10EARS - Although quiet out of the box you can adjust the AAM to 128 to match WD's A/V dedicated drive line to make it quieter.

WD10EURS - A/V dedicated drive. May need the Intellipark feature adjusted.

Me? I'd go with the WD10EURS.

You could use winMFS to upgrade your current drive to 1TB:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160

With respect to 2TB hard drives one of these two should work fine:

WD20EARS

WD20EURS

You could use jmfs to upgrade your current drive to 2TB's:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968

All four drives may need the Intellipark feature adjusted to avoid boot or menu restart hangs. See Section IV, #29 of the first post on this FAQ for details:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160

There are a couple of folks that have successfully upgraded using the latest "green" Hitachi and Samsung hard drives as well. Neither have been in service long enough to recommend but I don't see any reason why they wouldn't work fine as well. You could scroll back through the more recent posts to find the info...or the owners may chime in. (Only Western Digital employs the "Intellipark" so neither the Sammy or Hitachi would need any additional adjustments.)



grantsa4 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> How difficult is it to add a fan?
> 
> Would I need that on a Tivo HD?
> 
> Are there any guides online showing how to do it?


The TiVo HD's exhaust fan is more than adequate.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## unitron

grantsa4 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> How difficult is it to add a fan?
> 
> Would I need that on a Tivo HD?
> 
> Are there any guides online showing how to do it?


Whether you need it depends on how hot the drive runs regardless of in which TiVo you put it.

I used hard drive cooling fans with 4 pin pass through Molex connectors like you power IDE drives with, and removed them from the housing that was supposed to attach to the drive and jury-rigged them into the area under the drive with double sided foam tape. Since the S3 and S4 platform use SATA drives, there's no 4 pin Molex connector coming off of the power supply to get power for the fan from, so that could be a problem.


----------



## grantsa4

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. Very much appreciated


----------



## grantsa4

Rich, why do you like the WD10EURS over the WD10EARS ?

Is there any benefit to one over the other?


----------



## Stuxnet

FWIW the WD20EARS is $20 less than WD20EURS; the WD10EARS is $5 less than WD10EURS (Source: NewEgg).

Me... I'm cheap... I put a WD20EARS in my Premiere... reset both AAM and Intellipark.


----------



## richsadams

grantsa4 said:


> Rich, why do you like the WD10EURS over the WD10EARS ?
> 
> Is there any benefit to one over the other?


With respect to the 1TB drives, the difference is nominal, about $10 now and at times it's less than that.

The only real advantage of the EURS over the EARS in a TiVo application is that the EURS already has the AAM set to the quietest level (128). You should be able to adjust the AAM on the EARS using HDDScan which is pretty easy...just an added step.

I say "should" because there are recent reports, specifically about the WD GP 2TB drives that indicate that you can no longer adjust the AAM (w/HDDscan).

All of that being said, the EARS drives (and in fact all of WD's GP drives) are very quiet out of the box and many folks never adjust the AAM. If the TiVo were in a bedroom or other situation where silence is golden, I guess I'd go for the A/V series like the EURS. Otherwise it's your call of course.


----------



## dbenrosen

All of the information says I need to have both drives connected at the same time to be able to copy and upgrade the drive. Is it possible to backup to my Windows drive and then restore that (with all of the recordings) to the new drive? My Windows drive is large enough to handle the image.


----------



## unitron

dbenrosen said:


> All of the information says I need to have both drives connected at the same time to be able to copy and upgrade the drive. Is it possible to backup to my Windows drive and then restore that (with all of the recordings) to the new drive? My Windows drive is large enough to handle the image.


Which model TiVo?

What size is the drive you want to copy? IDE or SATA?

What size is your target drive, i.e., the one that will be the new TiVo drive? IDE or SATA?

What size is your "Windows" drive? IDE or SATA?

Is your computer a desktop or laptop?

How will you be hooking up the drives? Straight cable to the motherboard? Adapters?

That's not a GigaByte brand motherboard, is it? (If it is, we may be able to work around that.)


----------



## dbenrosen

unitron said:


> Which model TiVo?


It is a Series 3 (the one with the time display on the front)



unitron said:


> What size is the drive you want to copy? IDE or SATA?
> 
> What size is your target drive, i.e., the one that will be the new TiVo drive? IDE or SATA?


Original drive is the original drive in the TiVo, 160GB SATA. The new drive is a 1TB SATA.



unitron said:


> What size is your "Windows" drive? IDE or SATA?


The Windows drive is 1TB and has plenty of free space to copy all 160GB of the original TiVo drive. The Windows drive is also SATA.



unitron said:


> Is your computer a desktop or laptop?
> 
> How will you be hooking up the drives? Straight cable to the motherboard? Adapters?


The computer is a desktop. Unfortunately the newer PCs don't have all of the expansion and easily reached connectors of the older ones (like I used the last time I upgraded one of my TiVos). I can disconnect the DVD drive and connect one drive at a time. I do not have a USB to SATA connector (I'm asking around to see if I can find one). My plan would be to connect the original drive directly to the motherboard, backup/copy the image to the Windows drive (hopefully using WinMFS), then shutdown, connect the new drive directly and restore that full image to the new drive.



unitron said:


> That's not a GigaByte brand motherboard, is it? (If it is, we may be able to work around that.)


No it is not.


----------



## unitron

dbenrosen said:


> It is a Series 3 (the one with the time display on the front)
> 
> Original drive is the original drive in the TiVo, 160GB SATA. The new drive is a 1TB SATA.
> 
> The Windows drive is 1TB and has plenty of free space to copy all 160GB of the original TiVo drive. The Windows drive is also SATA.
> 
> The computer is a desktop. Unfortunately the newer PCs don't have all of the expansion and easily reached connectors of the older ones (like I used the last time I upgraded one of my TiVos). I can disconnect the DVD drive and connect one drive at a time. I do not have a USB to SATA connector (I'm asking around to see if I can find one). My plan would be to connect the original drive directly to the motherboard, backup/copy the image to the Windows drive (hopefully using WinMFS), then shutdown, connect the new drive directly and restore that full image to the new drive.
> 
> No it is not.


Okay, your motherboard has a SATA port for your Windows, i.e., boot drive, and a SATA port for your optical drive.

Are we out of SATA ports already?


----------



## dbenrosen

Yes. That is all of the ports.


----------



## dianebrat

dbenrosen said:


> Yes. That is all of the ports.


Other than the obvious SFF Dell units I've used in the past with only 2 SATA ports, I'm surprised to hear you have that few. My current HP tower has 6 SATA ports in it as did my last, I think I have a Gateway from 2004 that has 4 SATA ports on it.


----------



## dbenrosen

It is a SFF Gateway, which explains the limited sata ports. I originally bought it for the kids to use, never thinking I would need the ports. Now it is the only pc i have in the house. I have a couple of macs which definitely aren't made for upgrading TiVo drives without USB to sata connectors.


----------



## unitron

dbenrosen said:


> Yes. That is all of the ports.


WinMFS can do disk to disk copy or it can make a truncated backup file.

In order to backup the entire disk to an image file, you'll need to use the MFS Live cd, which means you'll need to have your optical drive hooked up, unless you can figure out how to make a bootable USB stick out of it.

The command would be

backup -Tao "backupfile" "olddrive"

The problem there is the size of the backup file, even if you have the space on your PC drive.

FAT32 partitions can't handle files bigger than 4GB (if I recall correctly). That's one 2 hour show at best quality.

NT partitions can handle bigger files.

MFS Live can mount FAT32 partitions

mount -t vfat "partitiontobemounted" "mountpoint"

but I don't think it can properly mount and write to NTFS partitions.

The solution which occurs to me is to shrink the partition(s) on your Windows drive and convert all the unused space to an unpartitioned space at the end of the drive.

Then create an ext2 partition in that space and use it as the location for the backup file.

Or maybe an ext3 partition.

I don't know enough to know how big a file either can handle, but at least the MFS Live cd will be able to mount, read, and write to, the partition.
The command would be

mount -t ext2

or maybe -t Ext2

You'll have to do some research on ext2 and ext3

As for shrinking your Windows partition(s) I was going to say get the PartedMagic Live cd v5.10, but now he's up to v6.6, which would be great, except there are now different versions for different CPUs and I'm not sure which is right for me, much less for you.

If you can find a site that'll let you download v5.10, you should be alright.

And you're going to need at least one SATA drive to USB port adapter, but I don't know which one to recommend.

And before you use the MFS Live cd, go to mfslive.org and read the full guide, several times.


----------



## lpwcomp

yaelR said:


> Where can i buy this?


Where can you buy what?


----------



## richsadams

lpwcomp said:


> Where can you buy what?


He's a spammer...already reported.


----------



## chrishicks

I haven't seen the Hitachi Deskstar drives mentioned recently as a recommended drive. I did 3 S3s with them around a year or so ago and had 1 extra one as an emergency backup. Well today my homemade 1TB external on another S3 decided it was time to quit so I just used that backup drive to get up and running again. I want to order another drive(I like having one readily available) but don't want to bother with the wdidle3.exe stuff(tried multiple times with a drive and could never get it to work on my PC). Is anyone using the newest version of the Deskstar with success?

This one in particular:

http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-Deskstar-Cache-Internal-0S02860/dp/B003SX0ORU/ref=pd_cp_e_2


----------



## bobman0330

bobman0330 said:


> I recently upgraded a Tivo HD with a 2 TB Barracuda Green drive. I used jmfs to copy and expand, then supersized with WinMFS. Everything seemed to go fine, except all of my recorded programs were on the new drive, which was not what I had expected.
> 
> However, I quickly noticed problems with the upgraded box. On certain channels (it seems to be only some and not others), there are occasional audio drop-outs, which slowly escalate to extended audio drop outs, brief video freezing, then finally a hard lock-up that requires disconnecting and reconnecting power to recover from. The original drive still seems to be working normally. (I heard one audio drop-out which terrified me, but I haven't had anything more serious... yet).
> 
> Any ideas what could be going wrong here? Does the fact that the Barracuda is an Advanced Format drive matter? Does Seagate have some analogue of the Intellipark feature that could be causing issues? Also, I used a Gigabyte mobo to do the upgrade. Could that have caused this problem?


Anyone have any ideas about this? Thanks!


----------



## dwit

bobman0330 said:


> Anyone have any ideas about this? Thanks!


No "intellipark analogue" with the Seagate. Only thing I might suggest is if you purchased the drive locally, you might try getting ann exchange to see if another works better. Don't know how probably, but a defective drive is a possibility.

You might also review the procedure again, thoroughly, to possibly determine if an error was made. Check reassembly for secure connections, etc.


----------



## fatpants

Hi everyone. I've had many issues with my current drive freezing during playback, so I've decided to jump in and upgrade my Tivo HD to a larger drive. Reading through some posts here, I bought the WD20EURS drive.

So I have the new drive, my Tivo HD is open and the current hard drive removed - but I'm very overwhelmed with what to do next. I'm not very technically savvy, and reading through threads that are referenced a few pages back, I'm not sure what the proper steps that I need to take are. I'm afraid that I'm in over my head.

Could someone please point me to a specific set of instructions that I should follow? Maybe a YouTube video? Trying to piece together instructions from different threads scares me - I'm afraid I'm going to miss some steps and screw it all up.

I would like to clone my current Tivo drive onto the new 2TB drive (to keep all my recorded programs and settings), and then make sure that I'm using all of the hard drive space that I can. My computer is running Windows Vista, if that is important.

Thank you very much.


----------



## richsadams

fatpants said:


> Hi everyone. I've had many issues with my current drive freezing during playback, so I've decided to jump in and upgrade my Tivo HD to a larger drive. Reading through some posts here, I bought the WD20EURS drive.
> 
> So I have the new drive, my Tivo HD is open and the current hard drive removed - but I'm very overwhelmed with what to do next. I'm not very technically savvy, and reading through threads that are referenced a few pages back, I'm not sure what the proper steps that I need to take are. I'm afraid that I'm in over my head.
> 
> Could someone please point me to a specific set of instructions that I should follow? Maybe a YouTube video? Trying to piece together instructions from different threads scares me - I'm afraid I'm going to miss some steps and screw it all up.
> 
> I would like to clone my current Tivo drive onto the new 2TB drive (to keep all my recorded programs and settings), and then make sure that I'm using all of the hard drive space that I can. My computer is running Windows Vista, if that is important.
> 
> Thank you very much.


Here are the instructions for upgrading your TiVo HD to 2TB's of recording goodness using a program called jmfs...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179

The jmfs program for TiVo HD's is supplemented with another program called winMFS for one step called "Supersizing" which is not necessary but gains a few more hours of recording time. If you want to skip the Supersize step, that's fine. You can do it at any time, so if you wanted a little more space later you could do it then...it's just a little easier since the drive is already out.

AFAIK no one has made a YouTube video specific to that upgrade, although there are some out there. (FWIW to date I haven't seen one that's very good...they always seem to miss something or other, which is not a good thing.)

It may sound complicated to begin with, but just take one step at a time...don't skip or modify any and you should be just fine. If you're comfortable connecting a hard drive to a computer you shouldn't have much trouble...again, just take one step at a time. The most time will be the copy process which is bit-for-bit so can take a few hours to complete. Grab a cup of coffee and read a good book.

The only item that isn't included in the instructions is how to adjust the Intellipark setting (which can cause TiVo to hang at the initial boot up or during a menu restart). The program that you'll use is called wdidle3.exe. It's easy to use and the instructions are on the FAQ of this thread (first post) under Section IV, #29.

That's a good drive choice by the way as the AAM (auto acoustic management) is already set to the quietest level and won't need adjusting. :up:

Again, just follow the steps carefully and you'll be fine. If you run into any issues just post your question on that forum and someone will generally respond right away.

Happy upgrading!

Oh, and welcome to the forum!


----------



## fatpants

Thanks so much Rich for the response. I read through the instructions a few times to get a grasp on them... I still don't have 100% confidence, but so far so good. I'm currently in the middle of doing the copy. Keep your fingers crossed for me.


----------



## dbenrosen

dbenrosen said:


> It is a SFF Gateway, which explains the limited sata ports. I originally bought it for the kids to use, never thinking I would need the ports. Now it is the only pc i have in the house. I have a couple of macs which definitely aren't made for upgrading TiVo drives without USB to sata connectors.


Decided to buy the USB-to-SATA connector. I was trying to avoid this additional expense but didn't really see a viable option. I should be upgrading tonight or tomorrow.


----------



## lpwcomp

dbenrosen said:


> Decided to buy the USB-to-SATA connector. I was trying to avoid this additional expense but didn't really see a viable option. I should be upgrading tonight or tomorrow.


What model is the new drive?


----------



## analog4

I have a TiVo HD and I replaced the internal drive 3 years ago with a Seagate ST31000340NS Barracuda ES.2 1TB - post here.

I work in computer storage, and that drive had a firmware update a long time ago (2+ years) that fixes a major issue. Before the TV season starts in a month I would like to update the firmware on the drive.

Is there any technical reason that the TiVo box itself would have a problem with me upgrading the firmware of the drive? I don't know if it has any sort of firmware checks to see if it's changed or not, or if it will care if it has been changed.


----------



## wkearney99

analog4 said:


> I have a TiVo HD and I replaced the internal drive 3 years ago with a Seagate ST31000340NS Barracuda ES.2 1TB - post here.
> 
> I work in computer storage, and that drive had a firmware update a long time ago (2+ years) that fixes a major issue. Before the TV season starts in a month I would like to update the firmware on the drive.
> 
> Is there any technical reason that the TiVo box itself would have a problem with me upgrading the firmware of the drive? I don't know if it has any sort of firmware checks to see if it's changed or not, or if it will care if it has been changed.


No, the Tivo isn't going to care about the drive's firmware. It just sees it as a drive, the firmware or even make/model don't really matter to it.

Secondly, there's the old saying "don't fix what ain't broke". Might that be applicable to your setup? The Tivo is working and has been for 3 years. And you now want to crack it open and molest the drive. Because, why?

Upgrading the firmware isn't going to cause trouble, but cracking open the box and doing it wrong might...


----------



## L David Matheny

analog4 said:


> I have a TiVo HD and I replaced the internal drive 3 years ago with a Seagate ST31000340NS Barracuda ES.2 1TB - post here.
> 
> I work in computer storage, and that drive had a firmware update a long time ago (2+ years) that fixes a major issue. Before the TV season starts in a month I would like to update the firmware on the drive.
> 
> Is there any technical reason that the TiVo box itself would have a problem with me upgrading the firmware of the drive? I don't know if it has any sort of firmware checks to see if it's changed or not, or if it will care if it has been changed.


As I read the notice, it does sound like a potentially serious firmware bug, although your TiVo drive will rarely be power cycled and thus exposure should be minimal. I doubt that your TiVo would notice the firmware change. If you do tear into your TiVo, you might as well also buy another 2TB drive and clone (not expand, just image) your drive onto it, just in case. The clone drive would have to be at least as large as the Seagate. Backups are always good.


----------



## lpwcomp

Three years is about the point where TiVo drives start to have problems anyway. If you take it out to do the firmware upgrade, you should at least make a compressed backup just in case. Do it _*before*_ you do the firmware upgrade. If you have a catastrophic hard drive crash, you don't want to be scrambling around for an image or have to buy InstantCake or a pre-imaged drive.


----------



## unitron

wkearney99 said:


> ... It just sees it as a drive, the firmware or even make/model don't really matter to it...


Unless it's a Series 1. They are finicky about drives (and IDE/SATA adapters). Won't take a Caviar Blue of any kind, apparently.

Also, I had 2 identical Seagates. I could get one to work in an S1 just fine, and either to work with some other brand drive,with either as Master, but trying to use those 2 Seagates together caused boot to hang every time.


----------



## myblubu

wkearney99 said:


> I second this suggestion. It was painless to use a jmfs boot CD. The only thing I used WinMFS for was to do a final supersize once the copy and expansion was done from the old Tivo drive to the new one. That bumped me from 287 to 318 hours of HD recording. This one a WD20EURS drive (*with the 4k jumper installed on pins 7-8*).


I just orderd my 2nd Premiere and planning to upgrade it to a 2TB internal drive like I did my first one. I used the WD20EARS on my first Premiere and was planning on using the same for the new Premiere, but I'm curious, what is the 4k jumper installed on pins 7-8 on the WD20EURS? I don't recall changing any jumpers on any of the drives I used to upgrade my 2 THD's and the 1 Premiere. Was this a WD20EURS only thing? Only asking because based on Rich's comment below, I was starting to second guess my drive decision and maybe go with the WD20EURS instead of the WD20EARS.



richsadams said:


> With respect to the 1TB drives, the difference is nominal, about $10 now and at times it's less than that.
> 
> The only real advantage of the EURS over the EARS in a TiVo application is that the EURS already has the AAM set to the quietest level (128). You should be able to adjust the AAM on the EARS using HDDScan which is pretty easy...just an added step.
> 
> I say "should" because *there are recent reports, specifically about the WD GP 2TB drives that indicate that you can no longer adjust the AAM (w/HDDscan).*
> All of that being said, the EARS drives (and in fact all of WD's GP drives) are very quiet out of the box and many folks never adjust the AAM. If the TiVo were in a bedroom or other situation where silence is golden, I guess I'd go for the A/V series like the EURS. Otherwise it's your call of course.


I was thinking of getting another WD20EARS drive to upgrade my 2nd Premiere like I did my first one. I used the DIY procedure on the forum and everything worked fine when I upgraded my THDs and the 1st Premiere - I adjusted the AAM & intellipark on each, so doing that isn't a problem for me. Since the WD20EARS is usally cheaper by a few bucks (now $75.99 vs $99.99 on Newegg), I went with that and planned to do so again. But has something changed now and the AAM can no longer be adjusted on the WD20EARS???


----------



## analog4

wkearney99 said:


> No, the Tivo isn't going to care about the drive's firmware. It just sees it as a drive, the firmware or even make/model don't really matter to it.
> 
> Secondly, there's the old saying "don't fix what ain't broke". Might that be applicable to your setup? The Tivo is working and has been for 3 years. And you now want to crack it open and molest the drive. Because, why?
> 
> Upgrading the firmware isn't going to cause trouble, but cracking open the box and doing it wrong might...


The issue has to do with the drives logging entries getting full, and it won't clear them upon reboot and it will brick the drive. With an always on device like a TiVo, it won't be doing much rebooting.

However, I'd hate to lose all of my shows and settings because I didn't take care of such a potentially serious issue.



L David Matheny said:


> As I read the notice, it does sound like a potentially serious firmware bug, although your TiVo drive will rarely be power cycled and thus exposure should be minimal. I doubt that your TiVo would notice the firmware change. If you do tear into your TiVo, you might as well also buy another 2TB drive and clone (not expand, just image) your drive onto it, just in case. The clone drive would have to be at least as large as the Seagate. Backups are always good.


I do have another drive that I have in the Tivo HD - I could update the firmware on the spare drive and then make a backup to the spare one I have - just in case.

I will probably watch whatever content I have on it just so the time it takes to copy is less (and it's a good excuse to the remainder of the stuff I have on it watched or deleted).

The drive I have in there is an enterprise Seagate, so I'm pretty sure once the firmware update is set it will run pretty solid for a while. However, since I am opening it I could take the opportunity to put in a 2TB (or even just a newer 1TB) just to make sure.


----------



## dbenrosen

lpwcomp said:


> What model is the new drive?


I went with the WD10EARS. My adapter didn't come Friday, so hopefully it will come today.


----------



## dbenrosen

How long should a backup from winmfs take? My original drive is connected via USB. It seems to be hung. All i see is the spinning circle for windows 7 with the backup window grayed out. The ETA is blank, the partition being copied says Processing... And the status bar is empty.It has been like this for about 20 minutes.


----------



## richsadams

dbenrosen said:


> How long should a backup from winmfs take? My original drive is connected via USB. It seems to be hung. All i see is the spinning circle for windows 7 with the backup window grayed out. The ETA is blank, the partition being copied says Processing... And the status bar is empty.It has been like this for about 20 minutes.


It depends on what kind of backup you're performing. If it's a truncated back it will only take a few minutes if that. If you're copying all of your recordings, etc. it will take as long as it takes for the data to completely transfer and that of course depends on how many recordings you have and the speed of the data throughput. USB is the slowest of course.

Ignore the status bar, it's rarely accurate if ever.

Two suggestions...

If you want to see if the process is still running simply open your Task Manager and view the process. If it's active, it's working.

Sometimes a window will open "under" an existing window. If things looked stalled, move the current window around on your desktop to expose any that may have opened beneath it.

So if you're copying over all of your recordings, etc. it can take up to several hours via USB.

EDIT: I scanned back through your posts and it looks like you have an original Series3 and that you're going to save all of your recordings. That being the case, then yes, it will take a while.

Hope that helps!


----------



## dwit

dbenrosen said:


> How long should a backup from winmfs take? My original drive is connected via USB. It seems to be hung. All i see is the spinning circle for windows 7 with the backup window grayed out. The ETA is blank, the partition being copied says Processing... And the status bar is empty.It has been like this for about 20 minutes.


Are you doing/restoring a just a truncated back up, or are you copying programs(MFS Copy)?

Just doing a truncated back up should be pretty much immediate(iirc).

But if you are copying shows, it could take a few hours(many hours for usb and depending on how many shows).


----------



## dbenrosen

Just doing a truncated backup. In task manager it says not responding as the status. Any thoughts?


----------



## richsadams

dbenrosen said:


> Just doing a truncated backup. In task manager it says not responding as the status. Any thoughts?


So you connected your original TiVo drive to your computer and performed the truncated backup correct? And now you have the new drive connected and you're performing the upgrade/expand?

The reason I ask is that in one of your posts you indicated that you thought you needed both drives connected to your computer at the same time and that you purchased a SATA/USB adapter. If you just wanted to perform a truncated backup you don't need to connect both at the same time.

That said, if the process stalled for some reason, then of course you'll probably need to start over.

At what point in the upgrade process were you in? Post a few details just so we can be clear about what you're doing.


----------



## richsadams

dwit...I know you're lurking out there.  Stay tuned if you will. I may have to bail to pick up friends at the airport pretty soon. If so, you can certainly jump in to assist dbenrosen with his upgrade.

Of course, you can jump in any time anyway!


----------



## dbenrosen

I have both drives connected to the computer. The original drive is connected via SATA/USB. The new drive is connected directly via SATA. I was attempting to make a truncated backup (for future safety) before I do I full copy to the new disk.

My PC is running Windows 7. I disconnected the DVD drive and have 3 disks connected. 1 is the Windows disk. The others are my new drive (via SATA to motherboard) and original TiVo (via USB/SATA). I guess I can just kill the process and start it over?


----------



## dbenrosen

It did create the empty file where it would save the backup. That appears to be as far as it has gone. I am "Running as Administrator" otherwise it doesn't see the disks.


----------



## richsadams

dbenrosen said:


> I have both drives connected to the computer. The original drive is connected via SATA/USB. The new drive is connected directly via SATA. I was attempting to make a truncated backup (for future safety) before I do I full copy to the new disk.
> 
> My PC is running Windows 7. I disconnected the DVD drive and have 3 disks connected. 1 is the Windows disk. The others are my new drive (via SATA to motherboard) and original TiVo (via USB/SATA). I guess I can just kill the process and start it over?


Yes, I'd start over. If you follow the directions on the FAQ (Section V, #22a - *TiVo Internal Upgrade Instructions: Preserves Settings Only*) carefully you'll see that you only need one drive attached at a time (besides your Windows drive). Note that it says "Do not connect the replacement drive at this time. ".

So yes, I'd disconnect everything, reboot the computer just to be sure no cruft is left and start again. Follow the directions and you s/b good to go.


----------



## richsadams

Okay, I just read your post again...you do in fact want to do a "full copy" to save all of your recordings correct? So essentially you just wanted a truncated copy for safety's sake? No harm in that, it's just that you really should put the original drive on the shelf for safe keeping...there's really no better backup than that.

So now if I understand what you're doing, you do actually want to save all of your recordings so you will in fact want both drives attached at the same time and you'll be following the instructions in Section V, #22*b* of the FAQ. Apologies for the confusion...been a long day.

Hard to say then why the process stalled, but give it another go and let us know what happens...should be fine.


----------



## dbenrosen

I shut down, then connected the original drive directly using the SATA connection and left the blank/new drive disconnected. Same thing happens. Once I click Start, it creates the file and then hangs.

Another interesting thing, when I Select the drive, it says it is a Series 2 or 3 disk, but if I the select View->Mfsinfo that gives me a message that it is not a TiVo drive. I'm not sure if Mfsinfo should work, but it is kind of surprising.


----------



## richsadams

dbenrosen said:


> I shut down, then connected the original drive directly using the SATA connection and left the blank/new drive disconnected. Same thing happens. Once I click Start, it creates the file and then hangs.
> 
> Another interesting thing, when I Select the drive, it says it is a Series 2 or 3 disk, but if I the select View->Mfsinfo that gives me a message that it is not a TiVo drive. I'm not sure if Mfsinfo should work, but it is kind of surprising.


Hmmm... Is the "donor" drive an original TiVo drive or one that you've already upgraded?


----------



## dbenrosen

richsadams said:


> Hmmm... Is the "donor" drive an original TiVo drive or one that you've already upgraded?


It is an original.


----------



## richsadams

dbenrosen said:


> It is an original.


Forgot to ask...when you look at the truncated backup file, what's the file size (if any)? It may be working okay, just creating the file and then stopping.


----------



## dbenrosen

richsadams said:


> Forgot to ask...when you look at the truncated backup file, what's the file size (if any)? It may be working okay, just creating the file and then stopping.


The file is zero (0) size.


----------



## richsadams

dbenrosen said:


> The file is zero (0) size.


Okay...then NOT working. Hmmm...have you tried connecting the original drive directly to the SATA port? Never mind, I see that you have. How about via USB?


----------



## dbenrosen

That is what I have now. It is using the SATA connection that was originally the DVD drive (which I disconnected). I guess I can try connecting the orig TiVo drive to the first connection and move the windows drive to the other one.


----------



## richsadams

dbenrosen said:


> That is what I have now. It is using the SATA connection that was originally the DVD drive (which I disconnected). I guess I can try connecting the orig TiVo drive to the first connection and move the windows drive to the other one.


That's a thought...but if winMFS is actually recognizing the drive the truncated backup should work.

In the end you might just go ahead and try the full copy and see what happens. If you keep the OEM drive intact you can always make a truncated backup later.


----------



## dbenrosen

richsadams said:


> That's a thought...but if winMFS is actually recognizing the drive the truncated backup should work.
> 
> In the end you might just go ahead and try the full copy and see what happens. If you keep the OEM drive intact you can always make a truncated backup later.


Could it be something with Windows 7? It is the 64-bit version, if that makes a difference.


----------



## dbenrosen

richsadams said:


> That's a thought...but if winMFS is actually recognizing the drive the truncated backup should work.
> 
> In the end you might just go ahead and try the full copy and see what happens. If you keep the OEM drive intact you can always make a truncated backup later.


Well, I started the copy and that seems to be working. I wonder if it could be some crazy Windows 7 permission thing, even though the user I am running as is an Administrator, I clicked to run Winmfs as Administrator, and I have turned off all of the anti-virus programs.


----------



## richsadams

dbenrosen said:


> Well, I started the copy and that seems to be working. I wonder if it could be some crazy Windows 7 permission thing, even though the user I am running as is an Administrator, I clicked to run Winmfs as Administrator, and I have turned off all of the anti-virus programs.


I don't think Windows 7 should make any difference. I've got an older Dell running Windows 7 and it works fine for upgrades. Odd.

In any case, fingers crossed everything will work fine now.

I believe you were going to run wdidle3.exe to adjust the Intellipark feature? If not, that's a good idea. I set mine to 300 seconds (five minutes) and it works fine...others have disabled it, your call. Remember that the drive must be connected via SATA to run wdidle3.exe.

BTW, it may boot up right away or it sometimes takes two or three tries before it boots up properly.

I have to head out for the evening, but I think dwit is around as are others if you need some more assistance.

Best of luck and enjoy!


----------



## dbenrosen

richsadams said:


> I don't think Windows 7 should make any difference. I've got an older Dell running Windows 7 and it works fine for upgrades. Odd.
> 
> In any case, fingers crossed everything will work fine now.
> 
> I believe you were going to run wdidle3.exe to adjust the Intellipark feature? If not, that's a good idea. I set mine to 300 seconds (five minutes) and it works fine...others have disabled it, your call. Remember that the drive must be connected via USB to run wdidle3.exe.
> 
> BTW, it may boot up right away or it sometimes takes two or three tries before it boots up properly.
> 
> I have to head out for the evening, but I think dwit is around as are others if you need some more assistance.
> 
> Best of luck and enjoy!


Thanks for the help. I already ran wdidle3 on the new drive before I attached it. I'll let you know if/when it finishes.


----------



## hooks

I have a Series 3, and I had previously installed the 500GB verified expander. i was having problems with freezes during playback, expecially during fast forward. The TIVO would freeze for a minute or so, and then spontaneously reboot - quite a pain. I made an assumption that the expander was bad. I detached the old expander according to instructions, and initially rebooted without any expander. The TIVO booted fine without the old expander, and I could not replicate the freeze issue.

Then I bought a new 1TB verified expander at best buy. I have tried several times to install it with eSATA, but the screen freezes at "powering up," never even making it to "just a few minutes more."

A TIVO chat support guy told me to disconnect the USB network adapter before installling the expander. I tried that, but same problem - stuck at "powering up."

Any ideas??


----------



## dwit

hooks said:


> I have a Series 3, and I had previously installed the 500GB verified expander. i was having problems with freezes during playback, expecially during fast forward. The TIVO would freeze for a minute or so, and then spontaneously reboot - quite a pain. I made an assumption that the expander was bad. I detached the old expander according to instructions, and initially rebooted without any expander. The TIVO booted fine without the old expander, and I could not replicate the freeze issue.
> 
> Then I bought a new 1TB verified expander at best buy. I have tried several times to install it with eSATA, but the screen freezes at "powering up," never even making it to "just a few minutes more."
> 
> A TIVO chat support guy told me to disconnect the USB network adapter before installling the expander. I tried that, but same problem - stuck at "powering up."
> 
> Any ideas??


You may just need to double check both ends of the cable to ensure it is connected securely. If you happen to have a spare cable, you might try that. If the same thing happens, probably just return/exchange the expander.

If it still happens with another new expander you might check again with Tivo support to see what they have to say. Maybe try running some of the built in Tivo drive diagnostics.

You might also consider just upgrading to a single large* internal* drive, if you are up to it. The S3 can take a 1.5TB drive (but it can only utilize about 1.2 TB or so). I've read the 1.5 TB drives are for sale at Newegg.com for about $60. A Tivo HD can take and utilize a full 2 TB drive.


----------



## lpwcomp

richsadams said:


> I believe you were going to run wdidle3.exe to adjust the Intellipark feature? If not, that's a good idea. I set mine to 300 seconds (five minutes) and it works fine...others have disabled it, your call. Remember that the drive must be connected via USB to run wdidle3.exe.


In a word...HUH? Since it involves updating the firmware on the drive, I'm pretty sure it has to be attached via Sata. I know for a fact that it will work that way.


----------



## lpwcomp

dbenrosen said:


> Thanks for the help. I already ran wdidle3 on the new drive before I attached it. I'll let you know if/when it finishes.


How did you run wdidle3 on it before you attached it?


----------



## dbenrosen

lpwcomp said:


> How did you run wdidle3 on it before you attached it?


I had attached it via the onboard SATA connection (as you said, it must be connected directly via SATA, not USB). To do that, I had to disconnect my Windows drive. I then powered off, reconnected the Windows drive via the on board SATA connection and connected the new drive via the USB/SATA connection. That is what I meant.


----------



## dbenrosen

dbenrosen said:


> Thanks for the help. I already ran wdidle3 on the new drive before I attached it. I'll let you know if/when it finishes.


It seems to have gotten stuck, but I am letting it run for the day while I am at work. There was no visible progress this morning over what I had already seen when I left it late last night. If it fails, I may try the mfslive boot CD to see if that is more tolerant of possible bad sectors on the original drive.


----------



## lpwcomp

Have you given any thought to the possibility of a problem with the backup destination rather than the source?


----------



## dbenrosen

lpwcomp said:


> Have you given any thought to the possibility of a problem with the backup destination rather than the source?


I'm fairly certain it is the source. I couldn't make a truncated backup to my Windows drive from the source when the new TiVo destination drive wasn't even connected to the PC.


----------



## lpwcomp

I'm not talking about your new drive. I am talking about the destination for the truncated backup file.

Also, you might verify that the source drive is being properly recognized by the BIOS.


----------



## richsadams

lpwcomp said:


> In a word...HUH? Since it involves updating the firmware on the drive, I'm pretty sure it has to be attached via Sata. I know for a fact that it will work that way.


D'oh...that is absolutely correct...and I know that.  I meant to say SATA...senior moment apparently. Changed the post. Thanks for catching that!


----------



## dbenrosen

lpwcomp said:


> I'm not talking about your new drive. I am talking about the destination for the truncated backup file.
> 
> Also, you might verify that the source drive is being properly recognized by the BIOS.


I tried a number of different locations on the Windows drive to put the backup file and all exhibited the same behavior. I realize they could all be referencing the same physical spot on the disk, but I doubt it since the file gets created initially with a size of 0. I tried at least a half dozen times and each time an empty (initialized) file was created but nothing was written to it.


----------



## lpwcomp

richsadams said:


> D'oh...that is absolutely correct...and I know that.  I meant to say SATA...senior moment apparently. Changed the post. Thanks for catching that!


I can relate. As of next Monday, I will be eligible for a Senior discount at AMC.


----------



## dbenrosen

dbenrosen said:


> It seems to have gotten stuck, but I am letting it run for the day while I am at work. There was no visible progress this morning over what I had already seen when I left it late last night. If it fails, I may try the mfslive boot CD to see if that is more tolerant of possible bad sectors on the original drive.


A little more information:

During the Mfscopy, it seems to have gotten stuck during partition 9. That is the latest information displayed on the Winmfs dialog.


----------



## richsadams

dbenrosen said:


> A little more information:
> 
> During the Mfscopy, it seems to have gotten stuck during partition 9. That is the latest information displayed on the Winmfs dialog.


I'm starting to lean toward data corruption. I can't recall, did you happen to run Kickstart 57 and/or 58 when the original drive was in TiVo?

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

If not, there's a chance that might resolve things.

If that didn't or doesn't work, I don't think it will have an impact, but give these two winMFS options/fixes a try...

1. Fix Swap
2. Fix Bootpage

Details here:

http://www.mfslive.org/winmfs/index.html

That said you may end up having to use Instant Cake as a clean image to upgrade. It's not the ideal because you'll essentially have a brand new TiVo, but at least you'll have a "last resort" to turn to.


----------



## dbenrosen

richsadams said:


> I'm starting to lean toward data corruption. I can't recall, did you happen to run Kickstart 57 and/or 58 when the original drive was in TiVo?


I will put the drive back in the TiVo and attempt this. It is worth a shot.



> If that didn't or doesn't work, I don't think it will have an impact, but give these two winMFS options/fixes a try...
> 
> 1. Fix Swap
> 2. Fix Bootpage
> 
> Details here:
> 
> http://www.mfslive.org/winmfs/index.html
> 
> That said you may end up having to use Instant Cake as a clean image to upgrade. It's not the ideal because you'll essentially have a brand new TiVo, but at least you'll have a "last resort" to turn to.


I'm prepared to go the InstantCake route if need be. Luckily I won't have lost too many recordings because it is the summer.


----------



## lpwcomp

Unless you already have InstantCake for that model, I would suggest posting to this thread first.


----------



## richsadams

dbenrosen said:


> I will put the drive back in the TiVo and attempt this. It is worth a shot.
> 
> I'm prepared to go the InstantCake route if need be. Luckily I won't have lost too many recordings because it is the summer.


Okay. I'm on the road today so won't be watching too closely until later. Best of luck!


----------



## dbenrosen

lpwcomp said:


> Unless you already have InstantCake for that model, I would suggest posting to this thread first.


Thanks for the link.


----------



## dbenrosen

Started dd_rescue before I left for the airport, and it was running nice and neat. But it has now encountered a bad batch of blocks. That confirms the problem with the original (source) drive. I'll see what it looks like when it finishes. At this rate it will probably be a while.


----------



## dbenrosen

dbenrosen said:


> Started dd_rescue before I left for the airport, and it was running nice and neat. But it has now encountered a bad batch of blocks. That confirms the problem with the original (source) drive. I'll see what it looks like when it finishes. At this rate it will probably be a while.


dd_rescue finally finished after 24 hours. It told me there were many errors. I expanded the size on the drive (figured it was worth a shot since I had it connected) and that seemed to work using mfsadd.

I then placed the TiVo in my S3 and powered up. Got to the "Almost there..." screen, the GSOD. I'm hoping this will actually be a good thing and fix the TiVo. I'll probably be able to tell in the morning, since 3 hours will be around 1:30am.


----------



## dbenrosen

dbenrosen said:


> dd_rescue finally finished after 24 hours. It told me there were many errors. I expanded the size on the drive (figured it was worth a shot since I had it connected) and that seemed to work using mfsadd.
> 
> I then placed the TiVo in my S3 and powered up. Got to the "Almost there..." screen, the GSOD. I'm hoping this will actually be a good thing and fix the TiVo. I'll probably be able to tell in the morning, since 3 hours will be around 1:30am.


It restarted after the GSOD, but kept rebooting. I finally decided to ditch it and did a restore from a "virgin" S3 image I was able to download. Everything came back up (after a C&DE), but when I install the cablecards, I don't get them. The TiVo knows they are there as I see them listed as being inserted, but when I go to the configuration screen, it says Cablecard 1 is not in normal operation.

Any thoughts? I am speaking with Verizon now as I type this. I am trying to use my known working Cablecard from my other TiVo in it now, but I am getting the same message.


----------



## L David Matheny

dbenrosen said:


> It restarted after the GSOD, but kept rebooting. I finally decided to ditch it and did a restore from a "virgin" S3 image I was able to download. Everything came back up (after a C&DE), but when I install the cablecards, I don't get them. The TiVo knows they are there as I see them listed as being inserted, but when I go to the configuration screen, it says Cablecard 1 is not in normal operation.
> 
> Any thoughts? I am speaking with Verizon now as I type this. I am trying to use my known working Cablecard from my other TiVo in it now, but I am getting the same message.


I don't do cable, but I believe a C&DE erases any cable card pairing you had. So if Verizon had to pair them to your TiVo originally, that will have to be done again. Right? I'm assuming that they won't work until they're paired.


----------



## dbenrosen

L David Matheny said:


> I don't do cable, but I believe a C&DE erases any cable card pairing you had. So if Verizon had to pair them to your TiVo originally, that will have to be done again. Right? I'm assuming that they won't work until they're paired.


Verizon doesn't (or at least didn't) pair cards to specific devices (like a TiVo). The problem is occurring before that point. In order to pair it to the device, I would need to get information off of the Cablecard info screen, which I cannot get to. That screen contains hostid, etc., that Verizon would need.

I did some more searching, and it appears the problem may be because the software version is so very old (original 8.x). So I am in the hoping that getting a newer version will fix the problem as documented in this post . I'll let you know if that works.


----------



## dwit

dbenrosen said:


> It restarted after the GSOD, but kept rebooting. I finally decided to ditch it and did a restore from a "virgin" S3 image I was able to download. Everything came back up (after a C&DE), but when I install the cablecards, I don't get them. The TiVo knows they are there as I see them listed as being inserted, but when I go to the configuration screen, it says Cablecard 1 is not in normal operation.
> 
> Any thoughts? I am speaking with Verizon now as I type this. I am trying to use my known working Cablecard from my other TiVo in it now, but I am getting the same message.


Only thing I can think of is maybe there is an issue with the Tivo software version. Check the version in the system info. Then force a couple of connections to Tivo and see if it updates. Maybe that will help.

edit: Beat me to it.


----------



## dbenrosen

The software update fixed the cablecard issue and my TiVo is now up and running, sans Season Passes. I will have to reenter them as I don't think I backed them up on TiVo.com. But my TiVo is working, and that is the most important thing. Thanks for the help.


----------



## richsadams

dbenrosen said:


> The software update fixed the cablecard issue and my TiVo is now up and running, sans Season Passes. I will have to reenter them as I don't think I backed them up on TiVo.com. But my TiVo is working, and that is the most important thing. Thanks for the help.


Nice. :up: Glad things worked out and enjoy!


----------



## losaltos

I just did an upgrade to a 2TB disk for my Series 3 DVR. I used MFSlive and was able to ignore the 1TB limit restriction and added a new 1600gb media partition which is working fine. I didn't see any info that this was possible apart from a discussion about how one could use JMFS from Premiere to do such an upgrade. However, that appeared to involve adding a 4th media/app partition pair. 

I have recorded 1500gb of programs to test this and the DVR works fine. I did use the -r 4 option to double the default blocking factor so I guess that might have helped.


----------



## dwit

losaltos said:


> I just did an upgrade to a 2TB disk for my Series 3 DVR. I used MFSlive and was able to ignore the 1TB limit restriction and added a new 1600gb media partition which is working fine. I didn't see any info that this was possible apart from a discussion about how one could use JMFS from Premiere to do such an upgrade. However, that appeared to involve adding a 4th media/app partition pair.
> 
> I have recorded 1500gb of programs to test this and the DVR works fine. I did use the -r 4 option to double the default blocking factor so I guess that might have helped.


What is the *model number* of your Tivo?


----------



## losaltos

The Tivo Series 3 that I upgraded with a 1600gb media partition is TCD648250 which is the original series3. This was also the original 250gb disk so I have two other approximately 100gb media partitions with 3 total sets using all the space on the 2Tb drive.


----------



## A J Ricaud

Please excuse this post being a little off-topic. I just bought 2 WDEARS drives from Newegg for a NAS box. I know that these are are pretty popular drives for Tivo upgrades--I have the 1TB models in my Tivos. 

The reviews at Newegg for the 2TB drives are pretty poor--3 out of 5 checks-- citing high DOA/infant mortality rates. It seem like most of the problems are fairly recent, August, 2011. 

I'm wondering if any Tivo users are experiencing these kinds of early failures, especially since the drives are running constantly? Or, did Newegg just get a bad batch?


----------



## richsadams

A J Ricaud said:


> Please excuse this post being a little off-topic. I just bought 2 WDEARS drives from Newegg for a NAS box. I know that these are are pretty popular drives for Tivo upgrades--I have the 1TB models in my Tivos.
> 
> The reviews at Newegg for the 2TB drives are pretty poor--3 out of 5 checks-- citing high DOA/infant mortality rates. It seem like most of the problems are fairly recent, August, 2011.
> 
> I'm wondering if any Tivo users are experiencing these kinds of early failures, especially since the drives are running constantly? Or, did Newegg just get a bad batch?


The WD20EARS in our TiVo Premiere has been flawless for about a year now.

FWIW I've found Newegg reviews to be so-so for a couple of reasons. First their drive packaging used to be horrendous (OEM clamshell bouncing around inside an empty box at times). That has improved markedly recently though. Second, as with any service or product folks that have problems tend to complain whereas satisfied customers tend to not take the time to post a review. For better or worse Newegg is also more frequently patronized by "techies" that have a higher demand threshold than general consumers.

The same drive on Amazon has almost 500 reviews with an average of 4 out of 5 rating with almost 300 5 star as opposed to about 100 1 and 2 star combined (and even some of those have nothing to do with the drive, but some oddity to do with the delivery or something). That would put the return rate at around 20%.

With respect to TiVo, although the hard drive is running 24/7, the data throughput is less demanding than for most home computers. Add to that the widely held position that continually powering a hard drive up and down has a bigger negative impact on lifespan than one that has a steady power flow and it's likely that drives used in TiVo's are no more likely to fail (and possibly less so) than drives being used in other situations.

All of that said it doesn't appear that the failure rate for the WD20EARS is any worse and sometimes is better than for other similar hard drives.

So the bottom line IMO and based on the success rates for folks upgrading TiVo's for five years or more is that the WD GP drives have a consistent positive track record (and why TiVo continues to use them as OEM hard drives). YMMV of course and others may have some additional feedback.

For anyone wanting to get a deeper understanding of hard drive failure rates, causes, etc. Google did an excellent study a little while back. It's a bit dated now but still referred to by some of the experts.

http://static.googleusercontent.com...abs.google.com/en/us/papers/disk_failures.pdf

One of their conclusions...



> One of our key findings has been the lack of a consistent pattern of higher failure rates for higher temperature drives or for those drives at higher utilization levels. Such correlations have been repeatedly highlighted by previous studies, but we are unable to confirm them by observing our population. Although our data do not allow us to conclude that there is no such correlation, it provides strong evidence to suggest that other effects may be more prominent in affecting disk drive reliability in the context of a professionally managed data center deployment.


----------



## A J Ricaud

Thanks for your insight, Rich Tivo & iPad friend).


----------



## richsadams

A J Ricaud said:


> Thanks for your insight, Rich Tivo & iPad friend).


----------



## unitron

richsadams said:


> The WD20EARS in our TiVo Premiere has been flawless for about a year now.
> 
> FWIW I've found Newegg reviews to be so-so for a couple of reasons. First their drive packaging used to be horrendous (OEM clamshell bouncing around inside an empty box at times). That has improved markedly recently though. Second, as with any service or product folks that have problems tend to complain whereas satisfied customers tend to not take the time to post a review. For better or worse Newegg is also more frequently patronized by "techies" that have a higher demand threshold than general consumers.
> 
> The same drive on Amazon has almost 500 reviews with an average of 4 out of 5 rating with almost 300 5 star as opposed to about 100 1 and 2 star combined (and even some of those have nothing to do with the drive, but some oddity to do with the delivery or something). That would put the return rate at around 20%.
> 
> With respect to TiVo, although the hard drive is running 24/7, the data throughput is less demanding than for most home computers. Add to that the widely held position that continually powering a hard drive up and down has a bigger negative impact on lifespan than one that has a steady power flow and it's likely that drives used in TiVo's are no more likely to fail (and possibly less so) than drives being used in other situations.
> 
> All of that said it doesn't appear that the failure rate for the WD20EARS is any worse and sometimes is better than for other similar hard drives.
> 
> So the bottom line IMO and based on the success rates for folks upgrading TiVo's for five years or more is that the WD GP drives have a consistent positive track record (and why TiVo continues to use them as OEM hard drives). YMMV of course and others may have some additional feedback.
> 
> For anyone wanting to get a deeper understanding of hard drive failure rates, causes, etc. Google did an excellent study a little while back. It's a bit dated now but still referred to by some of the experts.
> 
> http://static.googleusercontent.com...abs.google.com/en/us/papers/disk_failures.pdf
> 
> One of their conclusions...


NewEgg reviews are more likely to actually be for the product to which they are attached than Amazon reviews.


----------



## richsadams

unitron said:


> NewEgg reviews are more likely to actually be for the product to which they are attached than Amazon reviews.


True enough, however IMO they are also more likely to be of the negative variety on Newegg as well as for products that are put into much more intensive service than TiVo demands. That's six of one and half a dozen of another if the drive is DOA or fails immediately of course.

Part of the positive/negative difference is also with how the two companies handle returns; Amazon making it as easy as possible while Newegg doing just the opposite (both in my experience at least). Again, satisfied customers don't tend to make as much noise as unhappy ones.


----------



## unitron

richsadams said:


> True enough, however IMO they are also more likely to be of the negative variety on Newegg as well as for products that are put into much more intensive service than TiVo demands. That's six of one and half a dozen of another if the drive is DOA or fails immediately of course.
> 
> Part of the positive/negative difference is also with how the two companies handle returns; Amazon making it as easy as possible while Newegg doing just the opposite (both in my experience at least). Again, satisfied customers don't tend to make as much noise as unhappy ones.


With Amazon you're likely to get reviews for the 500GB, 750, or 1TB version of a drive attached to the page where they're selling the 2TB, or to get reviews for a different model number at the same capacity.

Since pages on Amazon are for both Amazon and other sellers, this greatly increases the chance for review confusion.

Also, compared to NE, there's an even greater chance of the pictures or description being not entirely correct, although the record may be when I ordered a couple of WD server-type drives last spring only to find out that was what was in their database matched to a part number from Price Pros that was actually for "adult lubricant"

At least now I know why the price was so low.


----------



## richsadams

unitron said:


> With Amazon you're likely to get reviews for the 500GB, 750, or 1TB version of a drive attached to the page where they're selling the 2TB, or to get reviews for a different model number at the same capacity.
> 
> Since pages on Amazon are for both Amazon and other sellers, this greatly increases the chance for review confusion.
> 
> Also, compared to NE, there's an even greater chance of the pictures or description being not entirely correct, although the record may be when I ordered a couple of WD server-type drives last spring only to find out that was what was in their database matched to a part number from Price Pros that was actually for "adult lubricant"
> 
> At least now I know why the price was so low.


Well...I guess that could be considered a "bonus".


----------



## Teeps

Teeps said:


> With over a year of 24/7 use; the Fantom Drive is still churning along.


As of yesterday, the Fantom Drive is off line. Due to installation of a 2TB internal drive upgrade purchased (Ebay store) from dvr_dude. 
TiVo Series 3 TCD648250B Hard Drive Upgrade 2TB WD AVGP

I wanted to let others know the Fantom Drive was working without a problem since installed on 4-OCT-2008.

I'd say I got my $$$$ worth of use from it.


----------



## richsadams

Teeps said:


> As of yesterday, the Fantom Drive is off line. Due to installation of a 2TB internal drive upgrade purchased (Ebay store) from dvr_dude.
> TiVo Series 3 TCD648250B Hard Drive Upgrade 2TB WD AVGP
> 
> I wanted to let others know the Fantom Drive was working without a problem since installed in 2008.
> 
> I'd say I got my $$$$ worth of use from it.


Thanks for that...good to know. IIRC Fantoms utilize WD GP drives so that's a bit of additional good news with respect to their longevity.

Enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## Gowan

Okay, this thread is very long and I think my brain is mush at this point so I'm getting a little confused.

I have a TivoHD. It was still stock until yesterday. I had a 400GB Seagate drive lying around and got a bug in my bonnet to upgrade the HD. Everything went very well. Drive seems to work fine. However, it's loud. Also, obviously, hard drives these days are pretty cheap. So, I'm thinking I'll go ahead and buy a bigger, quieter drive and upgrade to that.

I have three drive choices: A Western Digital 1TB AV-GP (WD10EURS - $70), a Western Digital 1.5TB Caviar Green (WD15EARS - $60), or a Hitachi 2TB Deskstar 5K3000 (0F12117 - $70).

Since I just did the upgrade yesterday, there's no problem for me to hook up the original drive and do the upgrade again. If I read correctly, the problem with the WD Green drives has been resolved by either WD, TiVo or both. I am still confused on whether my upper capacity limit is 1.26TB which would obviously color my choices of replacement hard drive.

I used the latest WinMFS tool (9.3f) and did a full copy of recordings and all. Three settings confused me, so I didn't mess with them. One was the Supersize function. The other two were options in MFScopy. I recall one is "Custom Linux Swap Size" and don't remember the other.

I appreciate any and all help from you all. If this all goes well, I'll likely upgrade the hard drive in my old Series 2 as well, although I gather it will have further limitations.

Thanks!

<Edit: One odd thing to note: For some reason, Select-Play-Select-Pause-Select doesn't seem to work after my upgrade.>


----------



## richsadams

Gowan said:


> Okay, this thread is very long and I think my brain is mush at this point so I'm getting a little confused.!


Here is what I would do...

1. Buy either the 2TB WD20EARS or the WD20EURS drive. The rule of thumb is to always buy as much storage as you can afford and they only cost a few dollars more than the one's you've listed.

When it comes to TiVo the only difference between the two is that the WD20EURS is a dedicated A/V drive and is a bit quieter. However if you want to add one more step to the upgrade process you can easily change the Auto Acoustic Management (AAM) in the WD20EARS to match that of the WD20EURS at 128 by using the PARM function in the jmfs program.

Both drives may need the Intellipark feature adjusted to avoid boot or menu restart hangs. See Section IV, #29 of the first post on this FAQ for details:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160

The 2TB Hitachi Coolspin you've listed is an option and IIRC being used by a couple of folks here but they haven't been on the market long enough to make a recommendation one way or another. That drive would not need the Intellipark adjustment the WD drives might require and the AAM cannot be adjusted so it takes a little less time and effort for an upgrade.

2. Use your original TiVo hard drive and the jmfs program to upgrade. Here's the link to the program and all of the instructions needed:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179

You seem to know your way around your TiVo and a computer, so I think you'll find jmfs a cakewalk.

Hope that helps and happy upgrading!


----------



## teasip

I just ordered a WD drive (1TB) to upgrade the HD on my second TiVoHD and was planning on disabling the Intellipark via an SATA dual slot external drive (ThermalTake) that connects via USB to my Windows software via VMWare on my Mac. I now see the statement that the wdidle3 program cannot be run via such an attachment (I have no other computer). Does this still hold true?


----------



## richsadams

teasip said:


> I just ordered a WD drive (1TB) to upgrade the HD on my second TiVoHD and was planning on disabling the Intellipark via an SATA dual slot external drive (ThermalTake) that connects via USB to my Windows software via VMWare on my Mac. I now see the statement that the wdidle3 program cannot be run via such an attachment (I have no other computer). Does this still hold true?


Still true. If you want to run wdidle3.exe to adjust the Intellipark setting you'll need to connect the hard drive directly to a SATA port on the motherboard or some have used a SATA PCI card.

Not sure if you were planning on using the dual dock to upgrade by putting the OEM and new drive in as well, but that won't work either. You can use the dock, but only one drive in it will be recognized. You'd need an additional dock or SATA/USB adapter.


----------



## teasip

Thanks for the confirmation. I was able to cancel my online order for the WD HD after seeing your post. Next option will be to consider upgrading with one of our sponsors or just leave it at the OEM 160GB state.


----------



## lpwcomp

Gowan said:


> Okay, this thread is very long and I think my brain is mush at this point so I'm getting a little confused.
> 
> I have a TivoHD. It was still stock until yesterday. I had a 400GB Seagate drive lying around and got a bug in my bonnet to upgrade the HD. Everything went very well. Drive seems to work fine. However, it's loud. Also, obviously, hard drives these days are pretty cheap. So, I'm thinking I'll go ahead and buy a bigger, quieter drive and upgrade to that.
> 
> I have three drive choices: A Western Digital 1TB AV-GP (WD10EURS - $70), a Western Digital 1.5TB Caviar Green (WD15EARS - $60), or a Hitachi 2TB Deskstar 5K3000 (0F12117 - $70).


I'm mostly with richsadams here except I would definitely go with the WD20EARS. Both Newegg and Amazon have it for $70, free shipping.



Gowan said:


> Since I just did the upgrade yesterday, there's no problem for me to hook up the original drive and do the upgrade again. If I read correctly, the problem with the WD Green drives has been resolved by either WD, TiVo or both. I am still confused on whether my upper capacity limit is 1.26TB which would obviously color my choices of replacement hard drive.


if you use JMFS, the 1.26TB limit doesn't apply. 2.11TB is the limit. That's right kiddies, for TiVos, 2.11TB is the new 137GB, except you can't even use a drive > 2.11TB.



Gowan said:


> I used the latest WinMFS tool (9.3f) and did a full copy of recordings and all. Three settings confused me, so I didn't mess with them. One was the Supersize function. The other two were options in MFScopy. I recall one is "Custom Linux Swap Size" and don't remember the other.


Note that while you need to do the actual upgrade with JMFS, you must use WinMFS to Supersize it.

As to what Supersize is - the following is from the first post of this thread:

_*What does the "MfsSupersize" option do?

By default, roughly 10% of the internal drive is reserved for "tivoclips" -- video advertisements that are downloaded to the TiVo. If you use the MfsSupersize option on an internal drive upgrade, then only 10GB will be reserved for advertisements and the rest of the space is recovered for use with recordings.

Without MfsSupersize, a 1TB drive will add ~144 HD hours. With MfsSupersize, a 1TB drive will add ~157 HD hours.

There are no known ill effects associated with the Supersize option. In fact, TiVo appears to use that option on its own TivoHD XL (1TB) to provide 157 HD hours.

*_


----------



## richsadams

teasip said:


> Thanks for the confirmation. I was able to cancel my online order for the WD HD after seeing your post. Next option will be to consider upgrading with one of our sponsors or just leave it at the OEM 160GB state.


OR...you could use this Hitachi 2TB drive to upgrade your TiVo HD instead...

http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-Desks...SGO0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314513181&sr=8-1

Although it's new several folks here have successfully upgraded their TiVo's with it.

The 1TB version is an option as well (but I'd go w/2TB since the cost is only a few dollars more)...

http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-Desks...7?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1314513670&sr=1-7

That would eliminate adjusting anything as Hitachi's don't use "Intellipark" and the AAM (Auto Acoustic Management) can't be changed (the audio specs are about equal to the TiVo OEM drive).

The jmfs program will work the same...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179

Problem solved?


----------



## richsadams

lpwcomp said:


> Note that while you need to do the actual upgrade with JMFS, you must use WinMFS to Supersize it.


Since the OP already knows how to use winMFS that shouldn't be an issue.


----------



## ccrider2

lpwcomp said:


> if you use JMFS, the 1.26TB limit doesn't apply. 2.11TB is the limit. That's right kiddies, for TiVos, 2.11TB is the new 137GB, except you can't even use a drive > 2.11TB.


This quote is from a response to an OP that has a TiVoHD; Does this also apply to a TiVo S3? ....Fingers crossed.
Prices are down and I'm three years on my current Seagate 1TB upgrade.....Just looking to the near future.

Thanks,


----------



## lpwcomp

ccrider2 said:


> This quote is from a response to an OP that has a TiVoHD; Does this also apply to a TiVo S3? ....Fingers crossed.
> Prices are down and I'm three years on my current Seagate 1TB upgrade.....Just looking to the near future.
> 
> Thanks,


I don't believe you can use JMFS for a TiVo 3, so the limit* still applies

* The limit for a TiVo 3 is apparently a bit higher: 1.35GB.


----------



## lpwcomp

richsadams said:


> Since the OP already knows how to use winMFS that shouldn't be an issue.


I know he does. And I know the caveat is in the instructions for using JMFS to upgrade a THD. I just wanted to make he sure he was aware of it.


----------



## ccrider2

lpwcomp said:


> I don't believe you can use JMFS for a TiVo 3, so the limit* still applies
> 
> * The limit for a TiVo 3 is apparently a bit higher: 1.35GB.


Oh well....Thanks for clearing that up.


----------



## dwit

ccrider2 said:


> Oh well....Thanks for clearing that up.


Be aware that you can buy *preconfigured* 2 TB drives for the original S3 from weaknees and/or dvrdude, and possibly others.

Some more competitively priced than others, so do your homework.


----------



## SnakeEyes

So my 500GB DVR Expander is experiencing the issues others here have reported with freezing and reboots. I need a replacement but really don't a lot of space just something more than what the TiVo HD offers. Was curious what might be the cheapest route to go.


----------



## dwit

SnakeEyes said:


> So my 500GB DVR Expander is experiencing the issues others here have reported with freezing and reboots. I need a replacement but really don't a lot of space just something more than what the TiVo HD offers. Was curious what might be the cheapest route to go.


No brainer. 1TB drives are $50. 2 TB drives are $70. These would be internal drives, and you have to do the work, but don't think there is anything cheaper. Certainly not on a price per GB basis.


----------



## lpwcomp

dwit said:


> Be aware that you can buy *preconfigured* 2 TB drives for the original S3 from weaknees and/or dvrdude, and possibly others.
> 
> Some more competitively priced than others, so do your homework.


Since the least expensive pre-configured 2TB drive is more than twice the cost of a bare drive, if I were you I would take other factors into consideration.

If your TiVo 3 is not on lifetime, you might consider replacing it with a THD.

If it is on lifetime and the recordings you wish to keep for an extended period are not copy protected, consider getting a large drive for your computer and offloading the content. When the TiVo internal drive starts to die, replace it with another 1TB drive.

If it is on lifetime and recordings are copy protected, bear in mind that you will loose all of your settings, SPs, and recordings if you install a pre-configured drive.


----------



## richsadams

ccrider2 said:


> This quote is from a response to an OP that has a TiVoHD; Does this also apply to a TiVo S3? ....Fingers crossed.
> Prices are down and I'm three years on my current Seagate 1TB upgrade.....Just looking to the near future.
> 
> Thanks,


As lpwcomp mentions, the jmfs program will not work for upgrading the original Series3. However another member claims that he was able to upgrade his original Series3 to 2TB's. More here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8667320#post8667320

I don't know what he did exactly but if you're up for some command line work it might be worth a PM to get the details.

Otherwise as dwit mentioned, you can purchase a 2TB pre-imaged drive for your original Series3. Otherwise winMFS and MFSTools still have an upgrade limit of about 1.3TB for the original Series3.


----------



## richsadams

lpwcomp said:


> If it is on lifetime and recordings are copy protected, bear in mind that you will loose all of your settings, SPs, and recordings if you install a pre-configured drive.


FWIW Season Passes are repopulated on a new drive if TiVo owners take advantage of the TiVo's online SP Manager.


----------



## SnakeEyes

dwit said:


> No brainer. 1TB drives are $50. 2 TB drives are $70. These would be internal drives, and you have to do the work, but don't think there is anything cheaper. Certainly not on a price per GB basis.


Looking over the FAQ, only seen Windows instructions. I have only Macs. Any way to do this with Mac? If not whats my next cheapest option?


----------



## lpwcomp

SnakeEyes said:


> Looking over the FAQ, only seen Windows instructions. I have only Macs. Any way to do this with Mac? If not whats my next cheapest option?


Since neither MFSLive nor JMFSLive are Windows programs, at best you can say that all you've seen is PC instructions. Both have worked on Macs.

When upgrading a TiVo HD, the only thing you have to do using WinMFS is Supersize. A non-supersized drive will work just fine, you will just not have quite as much space for user recordings.

The main problem with an Apple computer is that it is difficult to impossible to connect your own drive to a SATA port and some of the things you need to do to some drives e.g. wdidle3, possibly hdparm, can't be done on a drive connected via USB.


----------



## SnakeEyes

Understood. It's been ages since I've done an internal expansion. Last one was a S2. So I guess then I need the next cheapest option besides doing all the work myself with an internal.


----------



## dwit

SnakeEyes said:


> Understood. It's been ages since I've done an internal expansion. Last one was a S2. So I guess then I need the next cheapest option besides doing all the work myself with an internal.


1. Beg, borrow a pc.

2. Have, or assist, a (trusted)techie friend with a pc do it for you. Winmfs and JMFS are really simple. Burn cd's of all the tools you may need ahead of time.

3. Buy and install a preconfigured drive from dvrdude, weaknees, etc. Comparison shop. Prices may vary widely.

4. Richadams, the "moderator" here is a big Apple guy(I have read). Maybe he will advise if you tell him your set ups.


----------



## Gowan

An update: 

I went ahead and bought 1.5TB WD15EARS drives locally. I burned the jmfs iso to a thumb drive and booted from it and used the tools to copy my original 160GB drive and then expand it. Dropped to the shell and fixed the acoustic value. Drive is dead silent. I wasn't even sure it was working. 

Rebooted and used WinMFS to Supersize the drive. Tried the drive and it wouldn't soft-reboot, so used wdidle3 to fix it. Thought I wouldn't have to do that since the drive was manufactured in March 2011, but there it is.

System Info shows 237 HD hours, 2072 SD hours. 

Would it be nice to have another half a gig for $10? Sure. However, I can't even imagine using up the space that's here at this point. I churn through recordings at a pretty good pace. Mostly, I wanted to convert everything to HD and now I can and then some.

As I mentioned at the end of my last post, there is a very peculiar side effect: I can't seem to use Select-Play-Select-Pause-Select to make the time bar go away faster. Everything else seems fine. Any ideas?


----------



## steve614

Did your original hard drive already have the latest software version and complete guide data? 
I just finished an upgrade to 2TB with an original drive that only had one week of guide data and after the upgrade I noticed that the Season Pass option was missing when I selected a show to record. Once my Tivo updated the guide data, the Season Pass option returned.

So the advice I have is to give your Tivo a couple of days to get itself organized before you start 'customizing' it.


----------



## sirdavidalot

I just updated my TivoHD and I'm having serious stability issues. 

I created a truncated backup with WinMFS and restored it to a Seagate Barracuda Green 1.5TB ST1500DL003. 

On the first restore, I answered the question about the 1TB partition sizes the wrong way and it allocated the entire drive (230 some hours). Tivo rebooted itself about an hour later and then started freezing. I ran the kickstart 54 & 57 diagnostics and nothing turned up.

I did the restore again with the 1TB partition size. It boots up and looks normal, but it locked up after 2 hours. 

Any ideas on what to do from here? 
- Full copy from original drive
- Do a guided setup on the new drive
- Give up on Seagate drive and get WD (I'm using a laptop with USB-Sata dock, so I avoided the WDs since I couldn't run the utility)


----------



## lpwcomp

sirdavidalot said:


> I just updated my TivoHD and I'm having serious stability issues.
> 
> I created a truncated backup with WinMFS and restored it to a Seagate Barracuda Green 1.5TB ST1500DL003.
> 
> On the first restore, I answered the question about the 1TB partition sizes the wrong way and it allocated the entire drive (230 some hours). Tivo rebooted itself about an hour later and then started freezing. I ran the kickstart 54 & 57 diagnostics and nothing turned up.
> 
> I did the restore again with the 1TB partition size. It boots up and looks normal, but it locked up after 2 hours.
> 
> Any ideas on what to do from here?
> - Full copy from original drive
> - Do a guided setup on the new drive
> - Give up on Seagate drive and get WD (I'm using a laptop with USB-Sata dock, so I avoided the WDs since I couldn't run the utility)


If this is really a THD, model 65xxxx, use JMFS to redo the upgrade from the original drive. You can use the entire 1.5GB. Just use WinMFS to supersize it.


----------



## lew

TivoHD. Upgrade to a 2T drive.


Unless I'm missing something I can either use Broflovski's hybrid image with winMFS or stock software with JMFS. I've used winMFS and I think I have the image.

Which is the better option? I'd ask which is less likely to "break" as a result of tivo upgrading the software but that may be moot. I'd be shocked if we saw an upgrade with any real changes.


----------



## richsadams

steve614 said:


> Did your original hard drive already have the latest software version and complete guide data?
> I just finished an upgrade to 2TB with an original drive that only had one week of guide data and after the upgrade I noticed that the Season Pass option was missing when I selected a show to record. Once my Tivo updated the guide data, the Season Pass option returned.
> 
> So the advice I have is to give your Tivo a couple of days to get itself organized before you start 'customizing' it.


That's why the very first line of instructions in the jmfs TiVo HD upgrade guide says "_Use an original 160GB Tivo HD Drive - *if it doesn't have the latest software, install it back into your Tivo HD and force it to upgrade to the latest version*..._" NEVER skip steps!


----------



## richsadams

sirdavidalot said:


> I just updated my TivoHD and I'm having serious stability issues.
> 
> I created a truncated backup with WinMFS and restored it to a Seagate Barracuda Green 1.5TB ST1500DL003.
> 
> On the first restore, I answered the question about the 1TB partition sizes the wrong way and it allocated the entire drive (230 some hours). Tivo rebooted itself about an hour later and then started freezing. I ran the kickstart 54 & 57 diagnostics and nothing turned up.
> 
> I did the restore again with the 1TB partition size. It boots up and looks normal, but it locked up after 2 hours.
> 
> Any ideas on what to do from here?
> - Full copy from original drive
> - Do a guided setup on the new drive
> - Give up on Seagate drive and get WD (I'm using a laptop with USB-Sata dock, so I avoided the WDs since I couldn't run the utility)


Did you run a drive diagnostic on your new Seagate drive? You could try running Kickstart 54 which is a SMART diagnostic. It's predictive but if it finds problems it will generally let you know...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

Seagate drives used to have very high QC but since purchasing Maxtor they have slipped to the bottom of the pack. The 1.5TB drives required some odd firmware update a while back...not sure if that's still the case or not. Overall they're particularly problematic (really poor customer ratings everywhere) and that's why they are never recommended for TiVo upgrades.

My advice would be to pick up a 2TB WD GP or Hitatchi CoolSpin drive and start my scratch using jmfs:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179

If you're not up for that I'd run some diagnostics on the Seagate drive, even if KS54 comes back clean. Use Seagate Tools's extended diagnostics and see what comes back.

FWIW KS57 and KS58, TiVo's built-in diagnostic and repair tools are only capable of so much. If there's a major problem that they can't fix the programs will run quickly and just reboot TiVo...there's no messages and no way to know if they found something or not.

Hope that helps...probably not what you wanted to hear, but best of luck and let us know how it goes!


----------



## richsadams

lew said:


> TivoHD. Upgrade to a 2T drive.
> 
> Unless I'm missing something I can either use Broflovski's hybrid image with winMFS or stock software with JMFS. I've used winMFS and I think I have the image.
> 
> Which is the better option? I'd ask which is less likely to "break" as a result of tivo upgrading the software but that may be moot. I'd be shocked if we saw an upgrade with any real changes.


The only way to go now is w/jmfs. You can download the latest winMFS program for Supersizing from www.mfslive.org/forums if needed.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179

Happy upgrading!


----------



## richsadams

Gowan said:


> An update:
> 
> I went ahead and bought 1.5TB WD15EARS drives locally. I burned the jmfs iso to a thumb drive and booted from it and used the tools to copy my original 160GB drive and then expand it. Dropped to the shell and fixed the acoustic value. Drive is dead silent. I wasn't even sure it was working.
> 
> Rebooted and used WinMFS to Supersize the drive. Tried the drive and it wouldn't soft-reboot, so used wdidle3 to fix it. Thought I wouldn't have to do that since the drive was manufactured in March 2011, but there it is.
> 
> System Info shows 237 HD hours, 2072 SD hours.
> 
> Would it be nice to have another half a gig for $10? Sure. However, I can't even imagine using up the space that's here at this point. I churn through recordings at a pretty good pace. Mostly, I wanted to convert everything to HD and now I can and then some.
> 
> As I mentioned at the end of my last post, there is a very peculiar side effect: I can't seem to use Select-Play-Select-Pause-Select to make the time bar go away faster. Everything else seems fine. Any ideas?


Excellent to hear that things worked out okay. I never used the 30 skip hack but IIRC it went away at some point...could be wrong about that though. Hopefully someone else will chime in.

Enjoy!


----------



## dwit

richsadams said:


> Excellent to hear that things worked out okay. I never used the 30 skip hack but IIRC it went away at some point...could be wrong about that though. Hopefully someone else will chime in.
> 
> Enjoy!


I don't think 30 sec skip is what is being referred to.

As for the 30 sec skip, it is alive and well. Totally stable. Don't know how I could manage without. Isn't it a standard feature on the Premiere?


----------



## lpwcomp

dwit said:


> I don't think 30 sec skip is what is being referred to.
> 
> As for the 30 sec skip, it is alive and well. Totally stable. Don't know how I could manage without. Isn't it a standard feature on the Premiere.


On the Premiere, it is a 30-sec FF, i.e. slower than a skip, w/visible picture.


----------



## richsadams

SnakeEyes said:


> Looking over the FAQ, only seen Windows instructions. I have only Macs. Any way to do this with Mac? If not whats my next cheapest option?


You can upgrade your TiVo HD using a Mac. There are a couple of challenges however.

1. If you want to upgrade using one of the recommended Western Digital GP hard drives you will probably have to run a program, wdidle3.exe, to adjust the timeout on the Intellipark feature to avoid initial and/or soft reboot problems. That has to be run on a PC with the drive connected directly to a SATA port. 

2. If you want to get the additional recording space called "Supersizing" it requires that you run winMFS which is a Windows based application. 

3. If you want to upgrade using one of the recommended Western Digital GP hard drives that was not designed for A/V use (the WD20EARS for example) and want to adjust the AAM (auto acoustic management) from the default 254 to the quietest setting, 128, that probably has to be done on a PC. (I say "probably" because I've tried the hdparm command line to adjust the AAM with the jmfs program on a Mac and although it should work for some reason it doesn't. It does work on a PC however.)

So as you can see there are some speed bumps to deal with if you want to upgrade a TiVo with a Mac. The ideal way is with a PC with at least two open SATA ports on the motherboard though. I keep an old Dell around just for that.

All of that said you can upgrade your TiVo HD with your Mac. Since the recommended Western Digital drives present some challenges I would go with one of the new Hitachi CoolSpin hard drives. Although it doesn't have a long track record yet, others here are using it to upgrade their TiVo's successfully.

http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-Desks...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1314721019&sr=1-1

Then follow the directions to upgrade your TiVo HD using jmfs...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179

Create a disk or USB drive image from the ISO and boot into it. Insert the disk or thumb drive, hold down the Option key when booting up until you're given the choice of drive to use. (Oddly enough the jmfs disk appears as "windows" even though it's a Linux program).

If you have something other than a Mac Pro (where you have access to the SATA ports on the motherboard) you'll need to connect your original TiVo drive and your new hard drive via a dock or SATA/USB adapter. I prefer docks...I have two...

http://www.amazon.com/NewerTechnolo...6?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1314720669&sr=1-6 (Has FW800, very fast)

http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-5...XXVU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314720732&sr=8-1

Note that a dual-drive dock will NOT work, each drive has to have it's own dedicated connection.

If you wanted to "Supersize" (which requires running winMFS, a Windows based program) you could install Parallels or VMWare Fusion and a copy of Windows.

So again, using a PC is the way to optimize all of your choices, but it can be done on a Mac. Perhaps you can bribe someone with a PC? 

Of course the other option as dwit wisely points out is to purchase a pre-imaged hard drive from a third party like Weaknees/DVRUpgrade (same company now) or DVRDude on ebay has them available now and then.

Hope that helps and let us know how things go!


----------



## richsadams

dwit said:


> I don't think 30 sec skip is what is being referred to.
> 
> As for the 30 sec skip, it is alive and well. Totally stable. Don't know how I could manage without. Isn't it a standard feature on the Premiere?


Oh, duh, you're right. It's the time bar he's referring to. No idea about that either. Yes, the skip is alive and well in the Premiere. I never got used to that though...I can usually 3x FF and get past the commercials faster.


----------



## lew

richsadams said:


> The only way to go now is w/jmfs. You can download the latest winMFS program for Supersizing from www.mfslive.org/forums if needed.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179
> 
> Happy upgrading!


Why is it necessary to make sure you have the most recent software before using jmfs? When (ok IF) tivo updates the software will there be an issue with drives expanded with jmfs?

Will jmfs work with winMFS created backups?

Search might answer my questions but I have no way of knowing if older information is accurate.

We used to be able to use an old image, from an original drive stored in a box or on our PC, to prep a new drive. Let tivo update the drive to the current version. I know the B. hybrid image worked after several updates.


----------



## richsadams

lew said:


> Why is it necessary to make sure you have the most recent software before using jmfs? When (ok IF) tivo updates the software will there be an issue with drives expanded with jmfs?


 I don't know the specifics (I can guess but it'd only be a WAG - Comer could tell you), but I do know those that have tried updating using their original TiVo hard drives without updating have run into problems. Comer was very clear that the OEM drive needed to be running the latest version for jmfs to work.



lew said:


> Will jmfs work with winMFS created backups?


 It seems like it would be possible if you restored a truncated backup to a new drive (the new drive being smaller than the final upgrade drive as it needs to be expanded), updated to the latest version and then ran jmfs. That said I don't know of anyone that's tried it.


----------



## lew

richsadams said:


> I don't know the specifics (I can guess but it'd only be a WAG - Comer could tell you), but I do know those that have tried updating using their original TiVo hard drives without updating have run into problems. Comer was very clear that the OEM drive needed to be running the latest version for jmfs to work.
> 
> It seems like it would be possible if you restored a truncated backup to a new drive (the new drive being smaller than the final upgrade drive as it needs to be expanded), updated to the latest version and then ran jmfs. That said I don't know of anyone that's tried it.


OK I did a quick search. I think you have to be using at least whatever software version (not sure of the number) which allowed the use of the 1T external DVR Expander. That makes sense. I was concerned that a 2T updated tivo wouldn't be able to handle any software update.


----------



## HazelW

richsadams said:


> That's why the very first line of instructions in the jmfs TiVo HD upgrade guide says "_Use an original 160GB Tivo HD Drive - *if it doesn't have the latest software, install it back into your Tivo HD and force it to upgrade to the latest version*..._" NEVER skip steps!


Does this mean I can not use a 1GB drive that was created with instantcake? My original dirive was killed by the external drive fiasco.


----------



## steve614

richsadams said:


> That's why the very first line of instructions in the jmfs TiVo HD upgrade guide says "_Use an original 160GB Tivo HD Drive - *if it doesn't have the latest software, install it back into your Tivo HD and force it to upgrade to the latest version*..._" NEVER skip steps!


Yep, I noticed that. That's why I had asked Gowan if he had done that.

For the upgrade that I did, I installed the original drive Saturday a week ago. I forgot that I did a C&D before I originally pulled it, so I had to do guided setup when I re-installed it. I forced the calls to get the guide data and software update, and then let the Tivo run ~28 hours.
After that, I swapped drives again so I could finish watching the shows I couldn't transfer.
I did the upgrade just last weekend (almost a week later) so I knew I was going to be short a week on guide data.

After the fact, I did wonder if that 1st step was really necessary since the Tivo is pretty good at updating itself.


----------



## steve614

lew said:


> OK I did a quick search. I think you have to be using at least whatever software version (not sure of the number) which allowed the use of the 1T external DVR Expander.


That does make sense somewhat. I'm glad I followed the directions because I know I pulled the original drive before those externals became available.


----------



## richsadams

HazelW said:


> Does this mean I can not use a 1GB drive that was created with instantcake? My original dirive was killed by the external drive fiasco.


As long as it has the current OS and you're upgrading to a larger drive you shouldn't have any problem.


----------



## richsadams

steve614 said:


> Yep, I noticed that. That's why I had asked Gowan if he had done that.
> 
> For the upgrade that I did, I installed the original drive Saturday a week ago. I forgot that I did a C&D before I originally pulled it, so I had to do guided setup when I re-installed it. I forced the calls to get the guide data and software update, and then let the Tivo run ~28 hours.
> After that, I swapped drives again so I could finish watching the shows I couldn't transfer.
> I did the upgrade just last weekend (almost a week later) so I knew I was going to be short a week on guide data.
> 
> After the fact, I did wonder if that 1st step was really necessary since the Tivo is pretty good at updating itself.


 Wow...hope you have an electric screwdriver and a Torx bit!


----------



## lpwcomp

HazelW said:


> Does this mean I can not use a 1GB drive that was created with instantcake? My original dirive was killed by the external drive fiasco.


You might want to read this post before proceeding.


----------



## dannew

I've had my TivoHD for just over three year and this past weekend my 500G external died on me (I opened it up and see that its a stinking WD Green), I've tried all the tricks to get it back, but it's really doa, so I found the WD black at best buy for 109, but what I really like about it was the 5 year warranty. (note: You must email the proof of purchase in to WD to get the 5 years, if you just register online you only get 3 years). Thanks to you folks and all your instructions, I decided to NOT use the drive as another external, but to put it inside and remove the 160G - after all, who knows how many months or days it may have left. I contacted WD and they said the Blacks don't have automatic head parking so I don't have to wdidle3 it, can anyone confirm? Anyway, I WINMFS'd a backup copy and then copied the 160G over to the 1TB and answered the maximize question affirmative. I put it back in and now I have the 144 hours of HD with no external eating extra juice and a drive that should last longer then the Tivo itself, hopefully until 2016 It blows my mind that you found a way to start using over 1.2TB of space internally now, had I know that I might have purchased the 2 TB WD Black. To do all this (I don't have a PC with SATA ability) I purchase a USB dock with two slots in it (69$ at bestbuy), this could be an answer to the individual asking about how to do this on an Apple. If you can bootcamp or virtualize a windows environment on your Mac, with a dual USB dock you could run WinMFS and do the copying. Suffice it to say, a big thanks to all you dedicated techies who really know this stuff and share with us who know less but desire to learn, it gave me the nerve to try this, and it was so easy with good instuctions. Now I've got a TivoHD that records more television then I should be watching


----------



## ThreeSoFar

dannew said:


> ... Thanks to you folks and all your instructions, I decided to NOT use the drive as another external, but to put it inside and remove the 160G - after all, who knows how many months or days it may have left.


Good decision to go all new and just one drive! :up:



> Now I've got a TivoHD that records more television then I should be watching


Wait....isn't that the goal? what?


----------



## Gowan

steve614 said:


> Yep, I noticed that. That's why I had asked Gowan if he had done that.
> 
> For the upgrade that I did, I installed the original drive Saturday a week ago. I forgot that I did a C&D before I originally pulled it, so I had to do guided setup when I re-installed it. I forced the calls to get the guide data and software update, and then let the Tivo run ~28 hours.
> After that, I swapped drives again so I could finish watching the shows I couldn't transfer.
> I did the upgrade just last weekend (almost a week later) so I knew I was going to be short a week on guide data.
> 
> After the fact, I did wonder if that 1st step was really necessary since the Tivo is pretty good at updating itself.


My original drive had 11.0k-01-2-652 on it when I did the transfer. To my knowledge, that's the latest software available. It's certainly what's on the new drive now and I've rebooted and connected to the server several times since the upgrade.

It's a niggling problem. I record some stuff off to DVD and the now lingering time bar is a minor pain in the neck. I just find it extremely odd that's the only thing that doesn't seem to be working. I tried several other S-P-S codes and they worked fine. It's just the one that makes the time bar disappear quicker.


----------



## dwit

Gowan said:


> My original drive had 11.0k-01-2-652 on it when I did the transfer. To my knowledge, that's the latest software available. It's certainly what's on the new drive now and I've rebooted and connected to the server several times since the upgrade.
> 
> It's a niggling problem. I record some stuff off to DVD and the now lingering time bar is a minor pain in the neck. I just find it extremely odd that's the only thing that doesn't seem to be working. I tried several other S-P-S codes and they worked fine. It's just the one that makes the time bar disappear quicker.


Quite possibly, not directly related to the upgrade.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=474797


----------



## steve614

Gowan said:


> It's a niggling problem. I record some stuff off to DVD and the now lingering time bar is a minor pain in the neck. I just find it extremely odd that's the only thing that doesn't seem to be working. I tried several other S-P-S codes and they worked fine. It's just the one that makes the time bar disappear quicker.





dwit said:


> Quite possibly, not directly related to the upgrade.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=474797


This is puzzling. The code doesn't work on my upgraded TivoHD, but it works just fine on my other TivoHD that isn't upgraded.


----------



## dwit

steve614 said:


> This is puzzling. The code doesn't work on my upgraded TivoHD, but it works just fine on my other TivoHD that isn't upgraded.


That's quite possible too. Do both have the same version of software?


----------



## Burdy

Gowan said:


> My original drive had 11.0k-01-2-652 on it when I did the transfer. To my knowledge, that's the latest software available. It's certainly what's on the new drive now and I've rebooted and connected to the server several times since the upgrade.
> 
> It's a niggling problem. I record some stuff off to DVD and the now lingering time bar is a minor pain in the neck. I just find it extremely odd that's the only thing that doesn't seem to be working. I tried several other S-P-S codes and they worked fine. It's just the one that makes the time bar disappear quicker.


I'm seeing the same thing now on my Series 3 after I replaced its upgraded WD15EVDS (just died after 8 months) with the _original_ 250GB HDD. I don't remember what version it was running last December when I removed it, but after being re-installed the software upgraded itself to 11.0k-01-2-648.


----------



## richsadams

dannew said:


> I've had my TivoHD for just over three year and this past weekend my 500G external died on me (I opened it up and see that its a stinking WD Green), I've tried all the tricks to get it back, but it's really doa, so I found the WD black at best buy for 109, but what I really like about it was the 5 year warranty. (note: You must email the proof of purchase in to WD to get the 5 years, if you just register online you only get 3 years). Thanks to you folks and all your instructions, I decided to NOT use the drive as another external, but to put it inside and remove the 160G - after all, who knows how many months or days it may have left. I contacted WD and they said the Blacks don't have automatic head parking so I don't have to wdidle3 it, can anyone confirm? Anyway, I WINMFS'd a backup copy and then copied the 160G over to the 1TB and answered the maximize question affirmative. I put it back in and now I have the 144 hours of HD with no external eating extra juice and a drive that should last longer then the Tivo itself, hopefully until 2016 It blows my mind that you found a way to start using over 1.2TB of space internally now, had I know that I might have purchased the 2 TB WD Black. To do all this (I don't have a PC with SATA ability) I purchase a USB dock with two slots in it (69$ at bestbuy), this could be an answer to the individual asking about how to do this on an Apple. If you can bootcamp or virtualize a windows environment on your Mac, with a dual USB dock you could run WinMFS and do the copying. Suffice it to say, a big thanks to all you dedicated techies who really know this stuff and share with us who know less but desire to learn, it gave me the nerve to try this, and it was so easy with good instuctions. Now I've got a TivoHD that records more television then I should be watching


Thanks for the info. :up: A few questions...

1. Since you lost your external drive it sounds like you used winMFS to upgrade preserving the settings only (Section V, #22a of the FAQ) correct?

2. What's the temperature being reported when your TiVo has been in use for a while (and where is the box...inside a cabinet...open air, etc.)?

3. How are the acoustics of the new drive...how quiet is it compared to the original? (Again, that may be impacted by where your TiVo is located.) The reason I ask is that the TiVo OEM hard drive acoustics are rated at <25dBA whereas the WD Black series specs rate them 29dBA idle to 33dBA seek (and manufacturer's are notorious for under-estimating the actual acoustics).

The only drives that employ the Intellipark feature are WD's GP "green" series.

FWIW a dual hard drive dock can only be used with one drive at a time for folks that want to keep their settings and recordings. The OEM and new drives have to be connected separately.

BTW, if your 500GB WD My DVR Expander lasted for three years consider yourself _very_ lucky. The average lifespan for those was 12 to 18 months!

TIA and enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## Gowan

steve614 said:


> This is puzzling. The code doesn't work on my upgraded TivoHD, but it works just fine on my other TivoHD that isn't upgraded.


Well, the other thread had it exactly right. The pop-up banner wasn't coming up when I paused shows and so the S-P-S-Pause-S wouldn't work. I got it to work earlier and thought it was a matter of shows I had newly recorded since the upgrade versus shows that had been copied over. However, now that doesn't seem to be the case and it's all tied to whether or not the Pause banner shows up.

All is well now. As to whether the Pause banner has somehow been broken by the upgrade or some other glitch somewhere, I dunno.


----------



## steve614

dwit said:


> That's quite possible too. Do both have the same version of software?


Yes.


Gowan said:


> Well, the other thread had it exactly right. The pop-up banner wasn't coming up when I paused shows and so the S-P-S-Pause-S wouldn't work. I got it to work earlier and thought it was a matter of shows I had newly recorded since the upgrade versus shows that had been copied over. However, now that doesn't seem to be the case and it's all tied to whether or not the Pause banner shows up.
> 
> All is well now. As to whether the Pause banner has somehow been broken by the upgrade or some other glitch somewhere, I dunno.


I noticed last night that my upgraded Tivo recorded a program with a "more about" banner. I tried the code and it worked. Once I deleted that show, the code no longer worked.
I have come to the conclusion that at least one recorded program must have a banner ad for the code to work and you have to use the code on that program. Once the code is active, the toggle off works regardless if the show has a banner ad or not.
I plan to confirm this by deleting any show with a banner ad on my stock Tivo and see if the code stops working.


----------



## richsadams

steve614 said:


> I noticed last night that my upgraded Tivo recorded a program with a "more about" banner. I tried the code and it worked. Once I deleted that show, the code no longer worked.
> I have come to the conclusion that at least one recorded program must have a banner ad for the code to work and you have to use the code on that program. Once the code is active, the toggle off works regardless if the show has a banner ad or not.
> I plan to confirm this by deleting any show with a banner ad on my stock Tivo and see if the code stops working.


_That's_ the pioneering spirit! :up:


----------



## SnakeEyes

richsadams said:


> So again, using a PC is the way to optimize all of your choices, but it can be done on a Mac. Perhaps you can bribe someone with a PC?


Thanks for the advice Rich. So do I have this straight: so long as I use a drive that doesn't require direct SATA connection to run wdidle, I can use USB-SATA with my mac to run the minimum tools. And if I use Parallels I can run everything else (other than wdidle) via that same USB-Sata adapter.

I have a new situation though. Seems the internal drive on my HD got messed up right after I remove my failing external drive. Stuck in a external drive missing boot loop. If I acquire a tivo image for the HD can I just use WinMFS in Parallels with a usb-sata adapter and restore that image and nothing else and have possibly have a working drive again?


----------



## richsadams

SnakeEyes said:


> Thanks for the advice Rich. So do I have this straight: so long as I use a drive that doesn't require direct SATA connection to run wdidle, I can use USB-SATA with my mac to run the minimum tools. And if I use Parallels I can run everything else (other than wdidle) via that same USB-Sata adapter.


Yes that should work but I can't be positive about using Parallels not having tried it. It should work though.



SnakeEyes said:


> I have a new situation though. Seems the internal drive on my HD got messed up right after I remove my failing external drive. Stuck in a external drive missing boot loop. If I acquire a tivo image for the HD can I just use WinMFS in Parallels with a usb-sata adapter and restore that image and nothing else and have possibly have a working drive again?


Same answer for Parallels, never tried upgrading using it. Seems like it should work, but no guarantees.

All of that said, I would first try upgrading using your existing TiVo OEM hard drive with jmfs on your Mac...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179

If you don't use a WD GP drive requiring wdidle3.exe you should be good to go.

If that doesn't work I'd get an original image and start from scratch.

*EDIT*: Apologies, thought we were talking about a TiVo HD, not the original TiVo Series3. In that case you could try upgrading using winMFS via Parallels. It should work okay, but if not you can and use Fix Divorce S3:



> Current version of Tivo S3 software (8.3) has a bug and if you divorce your S3 using the built in divorce, you won't be able to use mfstools so use this tool to fix that. You won't have a problem with WinMFS.


I'd probably still try to hunt down a PC as it's considerably easier unless you already have Parallels installed.


----------



## Alvysyngr

first off - I upgraded one of them to a 2tb (bought the drive on eBay) and stashed the old drive for safe keeping. Today I acquired a lifetime TCD648250 with a dying drive. If I use the method to copy the old drive to a 2tb drive using JFMS and WinMFS will it work with the 'healthy original drive' or do I need to use the original drive?


----------



## richsadams

Alvysyngr said:


> first off - I upgraded one of them to a 2tb (bought the drive on eBay) and stashed the old drive for safe keeping. Today I acquired a lifetime TCD648250 with a dying drive. If I use the method to copy the old drive to a 2tb drive using JFMS and WinMFS will it work with the 'healthy original drive' or do I need to use the original drive?


If the models are identical using your original drive to upgrade the "new" unit should work fine. When it first boots up you'll encounter an error so you'll need to run "Clear and Delete Everything" to set it up.


----------



## Alvysyngr

richsadams said:


> If the models are identical using your original drive to upgrade the "new" unit should work fine. When it first boots up you'll encounter an error so you'll need to run "Clear and Delete Everything" to set it up.


Gotcha - that is what I had to do with the eBay drive and this way I can use a $70 WD instead of giving him $130 for the same drive.

thanks!


----------



## dwit

Originally Posted by Alvysyngr 


> first off - I upgraded one of them to a 2tb (bought the drive on eBay) and stashed the old drive for safe keeping. Today I acquired a lifetime TCD648250 with a dying drive. If I use the method to copy the old drive to a 2tb drive using JFMS and WinMFS will it work with the 'healthy original drive' or do I need to use the original drive?





richsadams said:


> If the models are identical using your original drive to upgrade the "new" unit should work fine. When it first boots up you'll encounter an error so you'll need to run "Clear and Delete Everything" to set it up.


Does JMFS work on 648250?


----------



## richsadams

dwit said:


> Does JMFS work on 648250?


No, my bad...just saw "HD" and made the wrong assumption. 

Went back and edited the post.


----------



## SnakeEyes

richsadams said:


> All of that said, I would first try upgrading using your existing TiVo OEM hard drive with jmfs on your Mac...
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179
> 
> If you don't use a WD GP drive requiring wdidle3.exe you should be good to go.
> 
> If that doesn't work I'd get an original image and start from scratch.


I'm not sure I follow. The earlier conversation about wanting to upgrade was prior to my internal hard drive getting hosed after disconnecting a failing My DVR Expander. The messed up drive inside my TiVo HD is my original OEM TiVo drive so I can't upgrade it and need to restore from a image, right?



> *EDIT*: Apologies, thought we were talking about a TiVo HD, not the original TiVo Series3. In that case you could try upgrading using winMFS via Parallels. It should work okay, but if not you can and use Fix Divorce S3:


No, we are talking about a TiVO HD. Did I say something to suggest otherwise?



> I'd probably still try to hunt down a PC as it's considerably easier unless you already have Parallels installed.


Reason I ask is because I already have parallels installed. Version 6.


----------



## Alvysyngr

After finding out that the JMFS Method doesn't work with my OLEd (what fun THAT was lol) I did the WinMFS method (settings only) and it kept crashing in Windows 7 but I feel it is the original HD so luckily I had my old drive from an identical OLED box. I backed up the drive without a hiccup, put the image on the new drive, and followed all the rest of the directions to a T (I think). I put the drive into my Tivo and it booted up quickly, quietly but gave me the expected hardware error. I went to Clear all settings and it's been on the Clearing and Deleting Screen for like 2 hours. Shouldn't this only take an hour? I am a little crushed since the original drive won't give me a backup. Please let me know your thoughts on this


----------



## richsadams

Alvysyngr said:


> After finding out that the JMFS Method doesn't work with my OLEd (what fun THAT was lol) I did the WinMFS method (settings only) and it kept crashing in Windows 7 but I feel it is the original HD so luckily I had my old drive from an identical OLED box. I backed up the drive without a hiccup, put the image on the new drive, and followed all the rest of the directions to a T (I think). I put the drive into my Tivo and it booted up quickly, quietly but gave me the expected hardware error. I went to Clear all settings and it's been on the Clearing and Deleting Screen for like 2 hours. Shouldn't this only take an hour? I am a little crushed since the original drive won't give me a backup. Please let me know your thoughts on this


C&DE can take quite a while depending on the data...how many recordings, Season Passes, etc. Give it some time and have some patience, it should work.


----------



## richsadams

SnakeEyes said:


> I'm not sure I follow. The earlier conversation about wanting to upgrade was prior to my internal hard drive getting hosed after disconnecting a failing My DVR Expander. The messed up drive inside my TiVo HD is my original OEM TiVo drive so I can't upgrade it and need to restore from a image, right?
> 
> No, we are talking about a TiVO HD. Did I say something to suggest otherwise?
> 
> Reason I ask is because I already have parallels installed. Version 6.


Too many threads, too little time, apologies. Yes, you should find a THD image to start fresh. You'd need to load it onto a drive smaller than the one you'll eventually use. If you buy an Instant Cake image from DVRUpgrade you'll need to restore it to a larger drive than your OEM drive as well (IIRC IC won't work on a stock drive). Or if you can find a stock TiVo HD image that you can restore to the OEM drive and then run jmfs that should work as well.


----------



## Alvysyngr

richsadams said:


> C&DE can take quite a while depending on the data...how many recordings, Season Passes, etc. Give it some time and have some patience, it should work.


I left it running and went to work - I should know if it is ok by tonight - fingers crossed!


----------



## SnakeEyes

richsadams said:


> Too many threads, too little time, apologies. Yes, you should find a THD image to start fresh. You'd need to load it onto a drive smaller than the one you'll eventually use. If you buy an Instant Cake image from DVRUpgrade you'll need to restore it to a larger drive than your OEM drive as well (IIRC IC won't work on a stock drive). Or if you can find a stock TiVo HD image that you can restore to the OEM drive and then run jmfs that should work as well.


Fantastic, thanks! One more thing. After restoring an image to the OEM drive are you suggesting running jmfs if I choose to upgrade to a bigger drive, using the now corrected OEM drive as the source? Or is there something I can/should do with jmfs after restoring an image to my OEM drive?


----------



## richsadams

SnakeEyes said:


> Fantastic, thanks! One more thing. After restoring an image to the OEM drive are you suggesting running jmfs if I choose to upgrade to a bigger drive, using the now corrected OEM drive as the source? Or is there something I can/should do with jmfs after restoring an image to my OEM drive?


If you restore an original image (identical model) to your OEM hard drive you can use that to upgrade to the larger drive using JMFS, nothing else to do.

FWIW once you restore an original image to your OEM drive you should slip it back into your TiVo, run Clear and Delete Everything (when you get an error message since TiVo won't recognize it as it's original drive), let it update to the current OS, pair it with your cable card (if required), etc. Basically get it all set up as if you were going to use that drive going forward. Then go ahead and use it to image the new/upgrade drive. That will save a bunch of hassle later and you'll have a drive you can slip back into your TiVo and be back up and running right away should your new drive have problems one day.

I think I linked it before, but be sure you use the jmfs program for TiVo HD's (there's a different one for Series4 Premiere models). This is the jmfs program for TiVo HD's:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179

Happy upgrading!


----------



## lpwcomp

While there are separate *threads* for using JMFS on Premieres and Tivo HDs, the s/w is the same. It's just that it was *designed* for Premieres and you have to go through some extra steps to use it on a TiVo HD, including using WinMFS for supersize as opposed to the JMFS supersize.


----------



## richsadams

lpwcomp said:


> While there are separate *threads* for using JMFS on Premieres and Tivo HDs, the s/w is the same. It's just that it was *designed* for Premieres and you have to go through some extra steps to use it on a TiVo HD, including using WinMFS for supersize as opposed to the JMFS supersize.


Although that may be correct I do my best to avoid confusing folks. As some have found out, employing the wrong instructions can cause problems including bricking a TiVo. The instructions are in fact different, they are not just different threads.


----------



## lpwcomp

Yes, the instructions are different, but calling it a different _program_ is confusing.


----------



## unitron

lpwcomp said:


> Yes, the instructions are different, but calling it a different _program_ is confusing.


One of the few times rich has even been in the neighborhood of being wrong.


----------



## dianebrat

New question on original S3 drive sizes I'm just not seeing covered (lord knows I might have missed it in 269 pages) I had asked in another thread, but in review it really should go here.

My current original S3 has 2x 750GB drives and I suspect one is failing, and I want to upgrade. Since 2TB single drives are out, I have the following combo available:
1.5TB Seagate LP 5400RPM
1.0TB WDC Green.

Can I do the 1.35TB on the 1.5TB as my primary and then add the 1.0TB external for what should be right around the max of 2.2TB but a little over? I'd be using winMFS and I have an OEM S3 250GB tbk file.


----------



## richsadams

Well, after six or seven years of answering thousands of questions and spending untold hours giving guidance to others on this and a good half-dozen other threads that AFAIK has been correct more often than not...hey, I'm ready to retire and you young bucks take over!

So step up and have fun all!


----------



## dwit

richsadams said:


> Well, after six or seven years of answering thousands of questions and spending untold hours giving guidance to others on this and a good half-dozen other threads that AFAIK has been correct more often than not...hey, I'm ready to retire and you young bucks take over!
> 
> So step up and have fun all!


Rich,

Don't let a nit picky troll get get you down !

As you see, the know it alls are not here when needed.


----------



## unitron

richsadams said:


> Well, after six or seven years of answering thousands of questions and spending untold hours giving guidance to others on this and a good half-dozen other threads that AFAIK has been correct more often than not...hey, I'm ready to retire and you young bucks take over!
> 
> So step up and have fun all!


Well, outside of guys like Tiger, spike, and comer, if anyone's earned the right to take a well deserved rest from saving the TiVo re-doer community from itself it's you, rich, but that doesn't mean we have to be happy about it.

Any chance you'd be amenable to mediation?


----------



## dlfl

richsadams said:


> Well, after six or seven years of answering thousands of questions and spending untold hours giving guidance to others on this and a good half-dozen other threads that AFAIK has been correct more often than not...hey, I'm ready to retire and you young bucks take over!
> 
> So step up and have fun all!


I hope you're not serious, Rich, although it sounds like you are.

I don't know why you're "ready to retire" and it's none of my business. But I hope it isn't due to anything that's been posted here.

In most organizations or groups, especially non-profit ones, there are a few people who stand out as super-dedicated volunteers who do a huge share of the heavy lifting. You are one of those and I thank you.


----------



## lpwcomp

dwit said:


> Rich,
> 
> Don't let a nit picky troll get get you down !
> 
> As you see, the know it alls are not here when needed.


Are you calling me a "nit picky troll"? If so, kindly have the grace to do so to me personally rather than indirectly, "trolling" for a response. You succeeded. Congratulations.

My only intention was to point out that implying that there are model specific versions of JMFS could lead to confusion when someone went to download it and finds only one, which was designed for the Premiere. My mistake was saying that there were merely separate threads rather than separate instructions.

Mr. Adams,

Please do not cease your participation in this forum due to any actions on my part. I meant no offense. My apologies if you took any. If my ceasing to actively participate in this forum will lead to you reconsidering your decision, consider it done. My stock Premiere is filling up anyway.

FWIW, I qualify for a "senior discount" at Kroger. Please do not leave me to the tender mercies of the "younger" members.


----------



## richsadams

dlfl said:


> I hope you're not serious, Rich, although it sounds like you are.
> 
> I don't know why you're "ready to retire" and it's none of my business. But I hope it isn't due to anything that's been posted here.
> 
> In most organizations or groups, especially non-profit ones, there are a few people who stand out as super-dedicated volunteers who do a huge share of the heavy lifting. You are one of those and I thank you.


Many thanks and I can honestly say the same about you. Keep up the great work!



unitron said:


> Well, outside of guys like Tiger, spike, and comer, if anyone's earned the right to take a well deserved rest from saving the TiVo re-doer community from itself it's you, rich, but that doesn't mean we have to be happy about it.
> 
> Any chance you'd be amenable to mediation?


Carry on sir!



lpwcomp said:


> Mr. Adams,
> 
> Please do not cease your participation in this forum due to any actions on my part. I meant no offense. My apologies if you took any. If my ceasing to actively participate in this forum will lead to you reconsidering your decision, consider it done. My stock Premiere is filling up anyway.
> 
> FWIW, I qualify for a "senior discount" at Kroger. Please do not leave me to the tender mercies of the "younger" members.


No harm done. Carry on as well.



dwit said:


> Rich,
> 
> Don't let a nit picky troll get get you down !
> 
> As you see, the know it alls are not here when needed.


Trolls I can handle...it's the people that should know better that wear me out.

Time to move on anyway.

All the best!


----------



## L David Matheny

richsadams said:


> Trolls I can handle...it's the people that should know better that wear me out.
> 
> Time to move on anyway.
> 
> All the best!


Maybe I missed something, but I hope you're not moving on because of an extremely minor semantic scuffle. Does "time to move on _anyway_" imply that there are other reasons not evident here? If so, I hope they resolve soon and you can stay or come back. I'm relatively new here, but even I recognize your many contributions. Thanks.


----------



## Alvysyngr

Got home last night and found that my Tivo had rebooted and was on the setup screen - awesome! I went through everything, it downloaded schedule info and appears to be working fine BUT when I look at the System Info it says that I have a total of 36 hours HD recording space! This is with the 2tb drive which I thought would give 288 HD hours. I don't think I skipped anything when I put the image on the drive (I know I clicked yes when it asked to use the extra space on the drive and supersize is on in Winmfs) can I pull this drive and put it back in my pc to fix this?

oh, and I did a soft restart and am going to pull the plug now, wait 5 minutes and plug it back in and hope for the best


----------



## dianebrat

Alvysyngr said:


> Got home last night and found that my Tivo had rebooted and was on the setup screen - awesome! I went through everything, it downloaded schedule info and appears to be working fine BUT when I look at the System Info it says that I have a total of 36 hours HD recording space! This is with the 2tb drive which I thought would give 288 HD hours. I don't think I skipped anything when I put the image on the drive (I know I clicked yes when it asked to use the extra space on the drive and supersize is on in Winmfs) can I pull this drive and put it back in my pc to fix this?


I thought you wound up saying you had an original OLED S3? those can't take a 2TB drive as far as I know, thus my questioning the 1.5TB and 1.0TB combo as an option. (though maybe you can do it as 1.35TB and through out the rest of the space)


----------



## Alvysyngr

dianebrat said:


> I thought you wound up saying you had an original OLED S3? those can't take a 2TB drive as far as I know, thus my questioning the 1.5TB and 1.0TB combo as an option. (though maybe you can do it as 1.35TB and through out the rest of the space)


So you think if I were to purchase a 1tb or 1.5 drive it would work ?

I thought it would just use the 1.35tb of the 2tb drive but at this point I just need it to work again.

I am sure someone here knows but can I use the WinMFS method to use this drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136513

in my OLED S3 TCD648250B


----------



## MPSAN

dwit said:


> Rich,
> 
> Don't let a nit picky troll get get you down !
> 
> As you see, the know it alls are not here when needed.


Yes...Rich, I had a sign in my office when I was in Colorado working on Disk Drives that said...

"Those of you who walk around here acting like you know everything are pissing off those of us who really do"


----------



## dianebrat

Alvysyngr said:


> So you think if I were to purchase a 1tb or 1.5 drive it would work ?
> 
> I thought it would just use the 1.35tb of the 2tb drive but at this point I just need it to work again.
> 
> I am sure someone here knows but can I use the WinMFS method to use this drive
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136513
> 
> in my OLED S3 TCD648250B


Yes I believe if you just use 1.35GB of the 2TB it should work, but if I recall there's a caveat of "you can't supersize or it breaks" or something similar which I have to find when I try to put in the 1.5TB I have.


----------



## unitron

dianebrat said:


> Yes I believe if you just use 1.35GB of the 2TB it should work, but if I recall there's a caveat of "you can't supersize or it breaks" or something similar which I have to find when I try to put in the 1.5TB I have.


I'm really not up for re-reading all 260+ pages of this thread and a couple hundred other pages on other threads and other possibly not to be named here sites to be absolutely certain, but I seem to remember reading that the 3 S3 models were each limited to 1.1ish TB plus the size of the original drive with which it left the factory, that at least the first S3, the "thermometer front" one (TCD648xxx) couldn't recognize a 2TB drive regardless of how much or how little of it was used*, but that you could use a 1.5, although you'd only get to use 1.35 of the space on it.

*At least when you use the MFS Tools/MFS Live/WinMFS software to write the partitions and the map, the Apple Partition Map used on TiVo drives tends to make everything at the end beyond the 15 TiVo partitions, the supposedly unpartitioned space, an "Apple Free" partition, although I think it's more of a label than an actual partition.

It may be that the S3 chokes on an "Apple Free" partition map entry over a certain size. If so, then theorectically one could use a 1.5GB drive to upgrade on to, then dd or dd_rescue it to a 2TB drive. That would leave you with a 2TB drive with a 1.5's partiton info at the front, and maybe that would fool the TiVo.

I'm not saying it makes sense to use a 2TB drive to provide 1.35TB of storage if you have a 1.5TB drive available, only that it might work if you desperately needed that 1.5 elsewhere where the 2TB drive wouldn't do.

Of course if someone wants to donate large quantities of lifetimed TiVos and hard drives, I'll be happy to do some experimenting.


----------



## steve614

steve614 said:


> I plan to confirm this by deleting any show with a banner ad on my stock Tivo and see if the [S P S Pause S] code stops working.


Sorry it took so long, but I have confirmed that a TivoHD with an original stock hard drive acts the same way in regards to the S P S Pause S code.


----------



## dianebrat

unitron said:


> I'm not saying it makes sense to use a 2TB drive to provide 1.35TB of storage if you have a 1.5TB drive available, only that it might work if you desperately needed that 1.5 elsewhere where the 2TB drive wouldn't do.


Exactly what I recall also, however I have used a 1.5TB in an older THD where I only used the 1.35GB of it, but there's a supersize caveat or something similar. My big question in both threads is if I can use the 1.35TB section of the 1.5TB AND an external 1.0TB before wasting a weekend testing it on my original S3.


----------



## unitron

dianebrat said:


> Exactly what I recall also, however I have used a 1.5TB in an older THD where I only used the 1.35GB of it, but there's a supersize caveat or something similar. My big question in both threads is if I can use the 1.35TB section of the 1.5TB AND an external 1.0TB before wasting a weekend testing it on my original S3.


As I understand it, S3s have some sort of coding that allows them to have the original hard drive and an external up to 1TB (or 1.1 depending on whether you're talking binary or decimal bytes), which is why the total is larger for the otherwise (except for THX certification and original drive size) identical HD XL than for the HD, and apparently there's some sort of "loophole" that allows applying that total to an internal drive, but that total is a hard limit whether there's one drive involved or two.

Having said that, somebody here or on the site which may not be named is claiming success with a 2TB internal in some flavor of S3, and there's even one guy somewhere saying he had success with a 2TB in an S2 DT. I'll see if I can find them again.

In the meantime spend your weekend doing what I wish I were still young enough to.


----------



## Teeps

unitron said:


> Having said that, somebody here or on the site which may not be named is claiming success with a 2TB internal in some flavor of S3, and there's even one guy somewhere saying he had success with a 2TB in an S2 DT. I'll see if I can find them again.


I have a TCD648250B S3 TiVo that has a 2TB internal drive installed.
The HD recording time is 318hrs.
This was a new, preconditioned, WD AVGP drive purchased from dvr_dude.

So far, so good...


----------



## Teeps

richsadams said:


> Well, after six or seven years of answering thousands of questions and spending untold hours giving guidance to others on this and a good half-dozen other threads that AFAIK has been correct more often than not...hey, I'm ready to retire and you young bucks take over!
> 
> So step up and have fun all!


Thanks for your help and encouragement, Rich.

You will be missed.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## ccrider2

Teeps said:


> Thanks for your help and encouragement, Rich.
> 
> You will be missed.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


+1 :up:

Many words of encouragement to you in anything you might do.

And a big THANKS!.... for all the help,
Chris


----------



## brentil

My TiVoHD's drive just bit the bullet so I was on here doing a bunch of research about what drive to get. In doing my searching I've found Hitachi has released 2 new revisions of drives mentioned here. It looks like these were just released and also explains why I can't find anymore CinemaStar 7K1000.C drives in stock anywhere.


CinemaStar 5K1000.B
CinemaStar 7K1000.D

These drives now put 1TB per platter so they reduce costs, complexity, & power. They also use the new 4k file sectors but luckily do e512 to emulate the old 512b sectors while still giving a performance gain.

The 7K1000.D versus the 7K1000.C is now 3.7w at idle versus 4.4w, 1822mb/s platter transfer rate versus 1589mb/s, and is 2.5 Bels at idle versus 2.5 Bels at idle.

The 5K1000.B versus the 5K1000 is now 3.0w at idle versus 3.4w, 1443mb/s platter transfer rate versus 1265mb/s, and is 2.0 Bels at idle versus 2.4 Bels at idle.

The new CinemaStar 5K1000.B looks to be a really nice drive in terms of power, acoustics, and speed. The problem is it seems both drives are so new they're not available to order yet...

My one concern is these are SATA3 devices, do the TiVo's have issues with those?


----------



## brentil

Their official press release was 3 days ago on the 6th, this bit was at the end but no mention on exact dates or price yet.



> The Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000.D and 5K1000.B CoolSpin versions are shipping today to distributors and channel partners. CinemaStar drives are expected to ship in the Fall.


----------



## unitron

brentil said:


> My TiVoHD's drive just bit the bullet so I was on here doing a bunch of research about what drive to get. In doing my searching I've found Hitachi has released 2 new revisions of drives mentioned here. It looks like these were just released and also explains why I can't find anymore CinemaStar 7K1000.C drives in stock anywhere.
> 
> 
> CinemaStar 5K1000.B - hitachigst_DOT_com/internal-drives/consumer-electronics/cinemastar/cinemastar-5k1000b
> CinemaStar 7K1000.D - hitachigst_DOT_com/internal-drives/consumer-electronics/cinemastar/cinemastar-7k1000d
> 
> These drives now put 1TB per platter so they reduce costs, complexity, & power. They also use the new 4k file sectors but luckily do e512 to emulate the old 512b sectors while still giving a performance gain.
> 
> The 7K1000.D versus the 7K1000.C is now 3.7w at idle versus 4.4w, 1822mb/s platter transfer rate versus 1589mb/s, and is 2.5 Bels at idle versus 2.5 Bels at idle.
> 
> The 5K1000.B versus the 5K1000 is now 3.0w at idle versus 3.4w, 1443mb/s platter transfer rate versus 1265mb/s, and is 2.0 Bels at idle versus 2.4 Bels at idle.
> 
> The new CinemaStar 5K1000.B looks to be a really nice drive in terms of power, acoustics, and speed. The problem is it seems both drives are so new they're not available to order yet...
> 
> My one concern is these are SATA3 devices, do the TiVo's have issues with those?


If they're 6GB/s (or is it 6Gb/s?), they should be able to autonegotiate down to 3, just like the 3s could drop to 1.5, so if the TiVo's SATA port is a 3 per second, probably good to go, but if only 1.5, I don't know if the 6s are smart/backwards compatible enough for that or not.

(I bet rich would know  )


----------



## lrhorer

unitron said:


> As I understand it, S3s have some sort of coding that allows them to have the original hard drive and an external up to 1TB (or 1.1 depending on whether you're talking binary or decimal bytes), which is why the total is larger for the otherwise (except for THX certification and original drive size) identical HD XL than for the HD


I'm not sure what you mean by "code". The Linux kernel deployed with the S3 Tivo utilizes 32 bit signed integers in its ide-disk.c module. This means the limit for a partition size with 512 byte sectors is 2 ^ 31 * 512 = 1,099,511,627,776 bytes.



unitron said:


> and apparently there's some sort of "loophole" that allows applying that total to an internal drive, but that total is a hard limit whether there's one drive involved or two.


It appears tivoapp has some 32 bit pointers somewhere that limit the total size to 2TB.



unitron said:


> Having said that, somebody here or on the site which may not be named is claiming success with a 2TB internal in some flavor of S3, and there's even one guy somewhere saying he had success with a 2TB in an S2 DT. I'll see if I can find them again.


I suspect DVR_Dude has learned how to either create a viable partition map with more than 16 partitions, or else has learned how to merge MFS partitions.


----------



## hummingbird_206

richsadams said:


> Well, after six or seven years of answering thousands of questions and spending untold hours giving guidance to others on this and a good half-dozen other threads that AFAIK has been correct more often than not...hey, I'm ready to retire and you young bucks take over!
> 
> So step up and have fun all!


Rich, it would be a huge loss for you to leave this thread. I wouldn't blame you for leaving it, but I for one really appreciate all you add to it. I will miss you and the great advice and assistance you provide here.


----------



## unitron

lrhorer said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by "code". The Linux kernel deployed with the S3 Tivo utilizes 32 bit signed integers in its ide-disk.c module. This means the limit for a partition size with 512 byte sectors is 2 ^ 31 * 512 = 1,099,511,627,776 bytes.
> 
> It appears tivoapp has some 32 bit pointers somewhere that limit the total size to 2TB.
> 
> I suspect DVR_Dude has learned how to either create a viable partition map with more than 16 partitions, or else has learned how to merge MFS partitions.


Well, I was talking more about the TiVo-specific software than the Linux stuff to which they add it, but if there's an approximate 1TB limit per partition, perhaps the external drive is, the way S3s are set up/designed, supposed to only have one partition on it (which would obviously have a maximum 1TB size), so the S3 sees anything in addition to the partitions on the original internal drive as an external drive and that's how you get the original drive size plus a TB overall limit on S3s.

So I'm going to guess that getting an S3 to use all of a 2TB drive means convincing it to allow the MFS partitions that it thinks of as being on the internal drive (as opposed to that final 1TB partition that it thinks of as being on the external drive) to be larger than the size they are on the original internal drive.

I'd like to see the partition maps of the original internal drives of the 3 different S3 platform models, but I don't have any of those machines to take apart and look at with MFS Live or WinMFS.


----------



## brentil

unitron said:


> If they're 6GB/s (or is it 6Gb/s?), they should be able to autonegotiate down to 3, just like the 3s could drop to 1.5, so if the TiVo's SATA port is a 3 per second, probably good to go, but if only 1.5, I don't know if the 6s are smart/backwards compatible enough for that or not.


I hunted down the Hitachi compatability guide for the drive.

http://lite.myfabrik.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/C5C34C27C6AF0D7D88257903001B16A3/$file/DS7K1000.D_5K1000.B_CompatGuide_v1.0.pdf

They list a good number of old SATA I (1.5) motherboards, chipsets, and controller cards as being supported by both drives. The testing was mainly done to prove the new 4k cluster e512 tech worked flawlessly on older equipment but it also proves it works great on old SATA I & II systems.


----------



## brentil

Ok, more research about the new Advanced Format 4k cluster drives like these. Even though they do e512 emulation it still requires OS, partition, & application support to prevent performance degredation.



> *If a partitioning or disk imaging utility is used, the partitions must be aligned such that the logical partition starts on a physical 4K sector boundary*. For a logical block size of 512 bytes, this can be accomplished by ensuring that the partition starts on a multiple of 8. In the "misaligned" example above, the 4K block starts at logical block #4, which does not align with a physical 4K sector (logical block #0 or #8)
> 
> Even when using a 4K operating system, it is possible for individual applications to ignore OS settings and attempt to write in 512-byte blocks. With 512-byte emulation, these applications will continue to work. *However, for optimum performance, applications should work in conjunction with the operating system and use 4K blocks when writing to the file system.*
> 
> 512-byte Write (Read-Modify-Write)
> When the host attempts to write a single 512-byte logical block, the hard drive will first read the 4K physical sector containing the 512 bytes that are to be overwritten. Next, it will insert the 512 bytes of new data and write the entire 4K block of data back to the media. This process is called a "Read-Modify-Write". *The drive must read the existing data, modify a subset, and then write the data back to the disk. This process can require additional revolutions of the hard disk.*
> 
> For best performance, it is recommended that the hard drive be partitioned correctly upon first use. By creating aligned partitions, a single 4K block read or write will result in a single physical sector read or write on the hard drive.
> 
> Partitioning Software:
> Linux
> GPARTED
> Gnu Parted 2.1+ use "-a optimal" or "-a minimal" options


Ignoring all of that bad news alone the S3 TiVo 11 software runs on Linux kernel 2.4.x and 4K support wasn't added until Linux kernel 2.6.34+. The S4 software 14 runs Linux kernel 2.6.x from before Aug 2009 so it wouldn't even support it. Digging into the code on the www.tivo.com/linux/ for the 14 source code I noticed there's a version 16 also but it is only 2.6.31.

Based on all of that I would highly recomend staying away from any Advanced Feature 4K drive in a TiVo device. If you were building a PC DVR they would actually be very beneficial, but for our needs it would decrease performance.


----------



## Alvysyngr

dianebrat said:


> Yes I believe if you just use 1.35GB of the 2TB it should work, but if I recall there's a caveat of "you can't supersize or it breaks" or something similar which I have to find when I try to put in the 1.5TB I have.


I just saw your reply. I bought a 1.5 and DID the supersize. It booted but only reports 36 hrs. This may be the problem! I'll try again and report back


----------



## SnakeEyes

FYI... just restored a virgin TiVo HD image to my OEM drive using Parallels 6 on my Intel Mac Mini with the help of a Thermaltake Black Widow Dock. I'm going through Guided Setup now so apparently it can be done with Parallels.

Thanks Rich!

Quick questions for others since Rich is retiring, is mfsadd only for when restoring/upgrading to a larger drive and not for restoring to a same size OEM drive? Because I was never asked to do this after finishing restoring.

Also, I recall something about choosing clear and delete everything to avoid an error message after putting a drive in. Does this apply to me after reimaging an OEM drive? When would one see that error? I'm going through guided setup now, having never seen it. Do I need to go to that option in settings once I get to TiVo Central?


----------



## dwit

SnakeEyes said:


> FYI... just restored a virgin TiVo HD image to my OEM drive using Parallels 6 on my Intel Mac Mini with the help of a Thermaltake Black Widow Dock. I'm going through Guided Setup now so apparently it can be done with Parallels.
> 
> Thanks Rich!
> 
> Quick questions for others since Rich is retiring, is mfsadd only for when restoring/upgrading to a larger drive and not for restoring to a same size OEM drive? Because I was never asked to do this after finishing restoring.
> 
> Also, I recall something about choosing clear and delete everything to avoid an error message after putting a drive in. Does this apply to me after reimaging an OEM drive? When would one see that error? I'm going through guided setup now, having never seen it. Do I need to go to that option in settings once I get to TiVo Central?


Yes, MFS Add, is for adding capacity beyond that from which the original image was made.

As for the "hardware error", that is encoutered when/if the image is from another like Tivo(same model but different TSN). Example: If you purchased a Tivo identical to yours, and you switched hard drives between, the "hardware error" would be encountered, on both. Neither machine could play recording made on the other.


----------



## unitron

SnakeEyes said:


> FYI... just restored a virgin TiVo HD image to my OEM drive using Parallels 6 on my Intel Mac Mini with the help of a Thermaltake Black Widow Dock. I'm going through Guided Setup now so apparently it can be done with Parallels.
> 
> Thanks Rich!
> 
> Quick questions for others since Rich is retiring, is mfsadd only for when restoring/upgrading to a larger drive and not for restoring to a same size OEM drive? Because I was never asked to do this after finishing restoring.
> 
> Also, I recall something about choosing clear and delete everything to avoid an error message after putting a drive in. Does this apply to me after reimaging an OEM drive? When would one see that error? I'm going through guided setup now, having never seen it. Do I need to go to that option in settings once I get to TiVo Central?


mfsadd adds MFS partitions (in pairs) if you have enough empty space at the end of the drive in which to put them.


----------



## SnakeEyes

dwit said:


> Yes, MFS Add, is for adding capacity beyond that from which the original image was made.
> 
> As for the "hardware error", that is encoutered when/if the image is from another like Tivo(same model but different TSN). Example: If you purchased a Tivo identical to yours, and you switched hard drives between, the "hardware error" would be encountered, on both. Neither machine could play recording made on the other.


Well I never saw the error, restored from an image that someone else provided to me. Everything is working fine.


----------



## unitron

SnakeEyes said:


> Well I never saw the error, restored from an image that someone else provided to me. Everything is working fine.


Did they provide you with an image that was set to go straight into guided setup on first bootup?


----------



## SnakeEyes

unitron said:


> Did they provide you with an image that was set to go straight into guided setup on first bootup?


It went straight to guided setup.


----------



## unitron

SnakeEyes said:


> It went straight to guided setup.


That's probably why it didn't throw you an error 51.


----------



## dianebrat

dianebrat said:


> Can I do the 1.35TB on the 1.5TB as my primary and then add the 1.0TB external for what should be right around the max of 2.2TB but a little over? I'd be using winMFS and I have an OEM S3 250GB tbk file.


Answering my own query with experience, 
No, one can not add another external drive to a setup with a 1.35TB primary in an S3. I had plenty of time this weekend and just could not get it to work, I tried adding both a 1TB to the 1.35TB and then a 750GB, neither would marry the 1.35TB primary.

Solution: 1TB WDC green and a spare 750GB I had in the house for 1.75TB total with 278 hours of HD storage. ...and before anyone says it, I was too impatient to wait for my other 1TB to come back from Seagate.


----------



## unitron

dianebrat said:


> Answering my own query with experience,
> No, one can not add another external drive to a setup with a 1.35TB primary in an S3. I had plenty of time this weekend and just could not get it to work, I tried adding both a 1TB to the 1.35TB and then a 750GB, neither would marry the 1.35TB primary.
> 
> Solution: 1TB WDC green and a spare 750GB I had in the house for 1.75TB total with 278 hours of HD storage. ...and before anyone says it, I was too impatient to wait for my other 1TB to come back from Seagate.


See, I told you you should have spent the weekend doing what I would have if I were still young enough!

When you say HD storage, do you mean you got the 1TB and the 750GB to work in a thermometer front S3, storing hi-def content, or that you set the S3 aside and put the drives in an S3 platform HD?

Either way, which is the boot drive? How many partitions do you have on which?

I assume the 1.35 primary was actually physically a 1.5 (or a 2?)?

Did you ever try it with a small primary and adding a 1.5 or a 2 as the second drive?


----------



## analog4

analog4 said:


> I have a TiVo HD and I replaced the internal drive 3 years ago with a Seagate ST31000340NS Barracuda ES.2 1TB - post here.
> 
> I work in computer storage, and that drive had a firmware update a long time ago (2+ years) that fixes a major issue. Before the TV season starts in a month I would like to update the firmware on the drive.
> 
> Is there any technical reason that the TiVo box itself would have a problem with me upgrading the firmware of the drive? I don't know if it has any sort of firmware checks to see if it's changed or not, or if it will care if it has been changed.


I am going to go ahead and update the hard drive in the next day or so.

The basic steps consisted of: Running WinMFS and selecting the drive and making the backup. I have no shows and nothing in my Deleted Items folder, so it should go pretty quick. Then I can update the hard drive firmware, and put it back into the TiVo. If I run into issues I can restore the backup to the drive by selecting the drive in WinMFS and restoring from the file? Last time I did it I went from the 160GB to a 1TB, so I assume I don't have to do anything with the SuperSize option.

I was planning on doing this using Windows 7, but WinMFS mentions nothing about Windows 7. Has anyone used WinMFS in Windows 7 with out issues or is it recommended to use Windows XP w/ SP2 (or ideally SP3)?


----------



## SnakeEyes

I know in the past I've seen people mention the season pass manager on TiVo.com. Is there a way to restore these and your To Do list after doing a restore?


----------



## dianebrat

unitron said:


> When you say HD storage, do you mean you got the 1TB and the 750GB to work in a thermometer front S3, storing hi-def content, or that you set the S3 aside and put the drives in an S3 platform HD?


 Original S3, thermometer style as you call it


unitron said:


> Either way, which is the boot drive? How many partitions do you have on which?


 didn't count them.


unitron said:


> I assume the 1.35 primary was actually physically a 1.5 (or a 2?)?


 yes, 1.5TB at 1.35TB as primary


unitron said:


> Did you ever try it with a small primary and adding a 1.5 or a 2 as the second drive?


 Everything that I saw suggested it wasn't worth my time, external needed to be 1TB or lower.
FWIW I'm having pangs about "only" having 750GB for my external and considering going out for another 1TB WDC Green this afternoon to have 2x 1TB since this machine will sit undisturbed for the next few years.


----------



## analog4

analog4 said:


> I am going to go ahead and update the hard drive in the next day or so.
> 
> The basic steps consisted of: Running WinMFS and selecting the drive and making the backup. I have no shows and nothing in my Deleted Items folder, so it should go pretty quick. Then I can update the hard drive firmware, and put it back into the TiVo. If I run into issues I can restore the backup to the drive by selecting the drive in WinMFS and restoring from the file? Last time I did it I went from the 160GB to a 1TB, so I assume I don't have to do anything with the SuperSize option.
> 
> I was planning on doing this using Windows 7, but WinMFS mentions nothing about Windows 7. Has anyone used WinMFS in Windows 7 with out issues or is it recommended to use Windows XP w/ SP2 (or ideally SP3)?


I went ahead and did an upgrade. I checked the S.M.A.R.T. attributes and I have a high "Reallocated Sector Count". It also had a high power on time, so I figured if I was going to replace, I better do it now. I grabbed an identical drive, and it had no errors with S.M.A.R.T and put the image from the 1TB I had just pulled out onto that instead, and it asked me if I wanted to use the "extra space" so I hit yes.

I put it back in and it's now giving me the "GSOD". I am going to keep letting it work - but oddly enough, I did this upgrade/swap to prevent an error from like this from happening.

After a short time (30 minutes) - the TiVo fixed itself. All seems to be working. Anything I should check? I'm still wondering what happened.

Should I keep letting the TiVo try to fix itself? I'm trying to figure out what happened.


----------



## husky55

richsadams said:


> Well, after six or seven years of answering thousands of questions and spending untold hours giving guidance to others on this and a good half-dozen other threads that AFAIK has been correct more often than not...hey, I'm ready to retire and you young bucks take over!
> 
> So step up and have fun all!


Hey Rich, remember me? You helped me !!!!


----------



## unitron

husky55 said:


> Hey Rich, remember me? You helped me !!!!


Who here has he not helped at one time or another?

Even if it was someone who found something he posted years ago that turned out to be exactly the info they needed?

I'm not a very happy camper over his departure, and wish there had been a way to foresee it and head it off.

Maybe we should start a separate richsadams tribute thread.


----------



## brentil

*Beware of Advance Format 4K Drives!*

In looking at other drives to replace my dead TiVoHD drive with I've discovered all of the newer WD Green drives that have 64MB of cache are also Advance Format 4K drives too. The following list of new WD drives when used with a TiVo will result in non-optimal performance because the OS does not understand 4K sectors and the method we use to build partitions does not build 4K sector aligned partitions. The OP should probably be updated with this information. Below is the list of drives to avoid.

WD Drives

EARS (SATA II)
EARX (SATA III)
EZRX (SATA III)
EURS (SATA II)
EURX (SATA III)
EUCX (SATA III)

Hitachi Drives

CinemaStar 5K1000.B (SATA III)
CinemaStar 7K1000.D (SATA III)
Deskstar 5K1000.B (SATA III)
Deskstar 7K1000.D (SATA III)

Seagate Drives

ST1500DL003 (SATA III)
ST2000DL003 (SATA III)

Hothardware did benchmarks to show the negative impact of running an un-aligned Advance Format 4K drive and the results are rather nasty. The drives run up to 3x SLOWER when used on a non-4K supporting OS with unaligned sectors.

http://hothardware.com/Articles/WDs...Format-Windows-XP-Users-Pay-Attention/?page=2

Seagate states their SmartAlign technology built into their drives compensates for a lack of OS support & drive alignment.

http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/whitepaper/mb6101_smartalign_technology_faq.pdf

However this bjorn3d review shows that this is not the case as the SmartAlign seem incapable of keeping up in terms of performance specifically in the video creation test at the bottom of the page.

http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1954&pageID=10153


----------



## husky55

This is very interesting and important data. I just bought a WD20EARS and used it to upgrade a Premiere. Have not seen any impact on the slower speed due to the 4k sectors.

The Seagate ST2000DL003 did not boot in Tivo Premiere.

The Hitachi Green 5900 is working in my Premiere.


----------



## lpwcomp

Nothing in the report on the WD drives indicates that they will not perform adequately in a TiVo. The WD10EARS I have in my THD is working just fine.

Based on other posts in this forum, the WD20EARS may have QC problems, but that is a different issue.

In an analogy, most cars on the street are adequate for their intended purpose. Wouldn't wanna run one at Daytona though.


----------



## brentil

lpwcomp said:


> Nothing in the report on the WD drives indicates that they will not perform adequately in a TiVo. The WD10EARS I have in my THD is working just fine.
> 
> Based on other posts in this forum, the WD20EARS may have QC problems, but that is a different issue.
> 
> In an analogy, most cars on the street are adequate for their intended purpose. Wouldn't wanna run one at Daytona though.


Nothing states they wont work, they just wont work optimally. Which means not just speed performance but then noise, power, and heat wise. Because e512 emulation requires a Read-Modify-Write this means you have to move the head more often and you do less work per unit of time. It may also not be an issue performance wise right now with dual tuners but I could see this greatly impacting Quad tuner TiVo devices.

This is important information to consider when buying a drive and shouldn't just be pushed aside because everything "seems" to be ok now. Anyone looking to buy a new drive should avoid these drives if they want to optimize performance, heat, power, and noise.


----------



## brentil

husky55 said:


> This is very interesting and important data. I just bought a WD20EARS and used it to upgrade a Premiere. Have not seen any impact on the slower speed due to the 4k sectors.
> 
> The Seagate ST2000DL003 did not boot in Tivo Premiere.
> 
> The Hitachi Green 5900 is working in my Premiere.


These newer drives perform on a level above what comes in a stock TiVo so there's a good chance you'll never have an issue performance wise with typical daily load. If you're watching a show, recording 2 others, downloading a show, running TiVo2Go, and MRS then yeah you could have a drop. It'll just be good to keep in mind for the next set of drives you get.


----------



## lpwcomp

While it is an additional datum to be taken into consideration, saying flat out that these drives should be avoided goes well beyond that.

This report is from February 2010. I would think that actual experience of TiVo users would be more relevant.

And I agree that it may be more of an issue with the Elite.


----------



## brentil

I know this is the S3 section but I wrote this with the S4 in mind as well too. It's been thrown around that the S4 in the future might support streaming without having to have the new Elite device to the TiVo Preview type devices. If that's true then the device needs to handle 2 HD streams being written, 1 download being written, 1 local HD stream being read, and up to 3 HD streams being read to Preview devices. From the benchmarks of un-aligned drives on unsupported OS's the impact can be extremely significant which could result in in these types of devices being incapable of proper functionality.

So yeah I should amend it to be S3 users take this information into consideration and S4 owners should highly consider avoiding Advanced Format drives.


----------



## unitron

brentil said:


> I know this is the S3 section but I wrote this with the S4 in mind as well too. It's been thrown around that the S4 in the future might support streaming without having to have the new Elite device to the TiVo Preview type devices. If that's true then the device needs to handle 2 HD streams being written, 1 download being written, 1 local HD stream being read, and up to 3 HD streams being read to Preview devices. From the benchmarks of un-aligned drives on unsupported OS's the impact can be extremely significant which could result in in these types of devices being incapable of proper functionality.
> 
> So yeah I should amend it to be S3 users take this information into consideration and S4 owners should highly consider avoiding Advanced Format drives.


This is in the S3 forum, but this particular thread morphed into the "which drive for which TiVo under which circumstances" thread quite some time back.

Although I do wish it had been started in the upgrade forum, where the adapter thread is, and stickified there, to begin with.


----------



## rickydee

I have a S3 that I upgraded a long time ago that I now have to return to Tivo - problem is the I used the original 250GB drive for something else and now have a 750GB internal. 

Can anyone point me to how to return the S3 back to using the 250GB drive? Is it possible to delete all the recordings and then simply copy the contents of the 750GB drive to the 250GB drive? Are the any parameters that I need to be aware of? 

Any help would be greatly appreciated since upgrading posts seem plentiful but its harder to find a sticky on how to revert back to original drives. At this point, I wonder if Tivo would even balk at the returned unit if I left the 750GB version in the S3, but my preference is to return it with the stock drive.


----------



## brentil

You could use InstantCake or beg someone for an image I bet.


----------



## lpwcomp

rickydee said:


> I have a S3 that I upgraded a long time ago that I now have to return to Tivo - problem is the I used the original 250GB drive for something else and now have a 750GB internal.


Why do you have to return it to TiVo?


----------



## brentil

I've opted to go with the WD WD10EVDS and I'll go in an disable the IntelliPark to prevent soft reboot issues. This seems to be one of the best feature wise DVR specific drives still available for a decent price without Advanced Format.


----------



## Replacement

Ok, I need to replace my power supply in my S3 and I was thinking that it may be time to upgrade the HD to something that has more space. I was thinking either a 500gb or 750 gb internal HD, but I don't know what ones or how much $ I would be looking at. I did some searching here, and started reading the 1st post in this thread and it looks like it hasn't been updated in over a year and the rest of this is 200+ pages so I was hoping that someone with experience can fill me in or point me in the right direction here.

Thanks,
Eric


----------



## ThAbtO

Replacement said:


> Ok, I need to replace my power supply in my S3 and I was thinking that it may be time to upgrade the HD to something that has more space. I was thinking either a 500gb or 750 gb internal HD, but I don't know what ones or how much $ I would be looking at. I did some searching here, and started reading the 1st post in this thread and it looks like it hasn't been updated in over a year and the rest of this is 200+ pages so I was hoping that someone with experience can fill me in or point me in the right direction here.
> 
> Thanks,
> Eric


I would suggest going with a 1 Tb drive, as they are cheaper then the smaller capacity drives. You would be getting about 150 hours of digital/HD recording. For the brand, Western Digital is is good. The drive would need to be SATA.

A good online site is amazon.com. They cost under $60.

You would also need to hook the drives up to a PC and copy the drive from the Tivo to the new drive. You cannot let Windows format the drives as they are not readable. Mfslive.org is the site to obtain the proper program. I would suggest WinMFS as its the easiest to use, the other MFS programs require you to make a bootable CD to boot from, with your PC drive disconnected, you would also need to type linux commands.


----------



## lpwcomp

If you do decide to go with a WD drive (I did. I installed a WD10EARS in my THD), be sure to search this thread for "wdidle3".


----------



## dlfl

ThAbtO said:


> I would suggest going with a 1 Tb drive, as they are cheaper then the smaller capacity drives. You would be getting about 150 hours of digital/HD recording. For the brand, Western Digital is is good. The drive would need to be SATA.
> 
> A good online site is amazon.com. They cost under $60.
> 
> You would also need to hook the drives up to a PC and copy the drive from the Tivo to the new drive. You cannot let Windows format the drives as they are not readable. Mfslive.org is the site to obtain the proper program. I would suggest WinMFS as its the easiest to use, the other MFS programs require you to make a bootable CD to boot from, with your PC drive disconnected, you would also need to type linux commands.


I agree with this. But if you want to make it really easy you can buy a 1 TB plug-in Tivo-ready drive from DVR_DUDE (Google "eBay DVR_DUDE"). I think the price is about $110. A major potential advantage of the WinMFS method (other than cost) is that your CableCARDs will stay paired, while with the dude drive you will have to do Clear All and Delete and then get your CC's re-paired by the Cable Co., at least on most cable systems. Verizon FIOS is apparently one exception to this.


----------



## lpwcomp

Not just CC pairing. If you go with a pre-configured drive, you will lose all your settings, SPs and current recordings.


----------



## Replacement

The 1 TB or larger sounds good to me. The easier the install the better. I am getting new cable cards for the TiVo so if I had to get them paired or hold off on pairing them until I have the upgrade done it would not be a big deal.

Would this one work?
http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1316054469&sr=1-3

Is there other hardware that would be needed to complete the install? I have the Torx drivers for the screws.


----------



## ThAbtO

Replacement said:


> The 1 TB or larger sounds good to me. The easier the install the better. I am getting new cable cards for the TiVo so if I had to get them paired or hold off on pairing them until I have the upgrade done it would not be a big deal.
> 
> Would this one work?
> http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1316054469&sr=1-3


You would only be able to use about 1.3 gb of the total 1.5 gb. I would try to avoid the 64mb cache (may not be as compatible) and the 7200+ RPM speed models (no benefit).

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...3G/ref=sr_1_28?ie=UTF8&qid=1316055607&sr=8-28

I believe this works better.


----------



## unitron

ThAbtO said:


> You would only be able to use about 1.3 gb of the total 1.5 gb. I would try to avoid the 64mb cache (may not be as compatible) and the 7200+ RPM speed models (no benefit).
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...3G/ref=sr_1_28?ie=UTF8&qid=1316055607&sr=8-28
> 
> I believe this works better.


the 64MB cache itself isn't the potential problem, it's that so far all of the 64MB cache drives are "advanced format" drives.

The WD20EACS has only 16MB of cache, but has 4K sectors.

The WD20EADS has 32MB of cache, but has 512 Byte sectors.


----------



## ThAbtO

Isn't the 4k sectors not tivo friendly?


----------



## Darr247

rickydee said:


> I have a S3 that I upgraded a long time ago that I now have to return to Tivo - problem is the I used the original 250GB drive for something else and now have a 750GB internal.
> 
> Can anyone point me to how to return the S3 back to using the 250GB drive? Is it possible to delete all the recordings and then simply copy the contents of the 750GB drive to the 250GB drive? Are the any parameters that I need to be aware of?
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated since upgrading posts seem plentiful but its harder to find a sticky on how to revert back to original drives. At this point, I wonder if Tivo would even balk at the returned unit if I left the 750GB version in the S3, but my preference is to return it with the stock drive.


If you are doing the '$150 swap', I would put a dead SATA drive in it... I think they don't even look at anything but the model and service number on the back... giving the _new_ one the same service level and shipping it to you; then sending your old one to the repair shop without ever opening it.


----------



## dianebrat

I just don't get where all the hate for the WDC Advanced format drives is coming from, it seems to be very recent yet many posters myself included are running the WD10EARS without issue.

Brentil just came in out of nowhere with a HUGE red warning out of left field with tests that are not Tivo related claiming potential issues. Many Tivos are running ok with these drives, and while on a theoretical aspect Adv format drives might not appear optimal, in real life they seem to be doing just fine with the type of access a Tivo offers.

If everyone had been having issues with these drives performing poorly I can see the concern, but that's not been the case and it strikes me very much as a chicken little warning.


----------



## unitron

ThAbtO said:


> Isn't the 4k sectors not tivo friendly?


It isn't known for certain yet if they'll cause problems or not.

I avoid them because my use for 2TB drives so far has been in computers storing shows copied by TiVo Desktop and I don't want to risk them to potential problems if the workaround for XP and XP itself ever decide not to get along.

As for TiVos, go back a page and start reading the beginnings of the debate with this post

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8698635#post8698635

I don't know enough to know for sure if this guy knows what he's talking about, but it certainly sounds like he's put some serious thought and research into it.

(maybe it's richsadams posting under a psuedonym  )


----------



## unitron

dianebrat said:


> I just don't get where all the hate for the WDC Advanced format drives is coming from, it seems to be very recent yet many posters myself included are running the WD10EARS without issue.
> 
> Brentil just came in out of nowhere with a HUGE red warning out of left field with tests that are not Tivo related claiming potential issues. Many Tivos are running ok with these drives, and while on a theoretical aspect Adv format drives might not appear optimal, in real life they seem to be doing just fine with the type of access a Tivo offers.
> 
> If everyone had been having issues with these drives performing poorly I can see the concern, but that's not been the case and it strikes me very much as a chicken little warning.


I know the 20EARS are 4K, but if the 10EARS are, it's a recent change, so your's may be an older 512 type.

It's not that we know for certain that 4K drives are possibly problematic in a TiVo, it's that we don't absolutely know for certain that they aren't, as so far all TiVos have only shipped with 512 drives, and the Apple Partition Map was certainly developed long, long ago when 512 was a more or less universal constant.


----------



## brentil

dianebrat said:


> Brentil just came in out of nowhere with a HUGE red warning out of left field with tests that are not Tivo related claiming potential issues. Many Tivos are running ok with these drives, and while on a theoretical aspect Adv format drives might not appear optimal, in real life they seem to be doing just fine with the type of access a Tivo offers.


Just because I'm new to this forum does not mean I'm new to TiVo (we've been customers since the release of the S1 and have S1, S2, S3, & S4 devices actively working) or tech. If you want to check my tech street cred just google my username and you'll find the endless technical support forums I've belonged to. As can be seen I've collected significant data to back what I'm saying as well from my posts.

As I amended the S3 and Advanced Format drives will just not be optimal. The 4K tech has been proven to perform horribly on video data streaming/writing which is what a TiVo does all day. This is offset by the advances in drive performance so it's no obvious to the user.

The S4 though has significantly higher demands on it than a a S3 and with the advent of the Q/Elite & Preview those demands are going to become even greater. There is a very good chance that a combination of the extra load on the device in combination with the decreased performance from both un-aligned partitions and non-supporting OS will cause insufficient bandwidth issues. A S4 has 8 possible consecutive data streams (2 HD writes, 1 HD read, 1 download, 1 database, 3 HD Preview streams) and 10 for a Q/Elite. The current generation AV drives are rated for a maximum of 10 simultaneous streams at optimal performance. Introducing the Advance Format into this equation is just a bad idea.

If you want to ignore me feel free, add me to your block list. However this type of tech, performance analysis, benchmarking, etc are what I do and love and thought would be good to inform the community of of the very possible issues with them.


----------



## dianebrat

unitron said:


> I know the 20EARS are 4K, but if the 10EARS are, it's a recent change, so your's may be an older 512 type.
> 
> It's not that we know for certain that 4K drives are possibly problematic in a TiVo, it's that we don't absolutely know for certain that they aren't, as so far all TiVos have only shipped with 512 drives, and the Apple Partition Map was certainly developed long, long ago when 512 was a more or less universal constant.


My Oct 2010 WD10EARS has the Adv format warning disclaimer on it, and it's running fine. The WD10EARS has long been a favorite here and that shows that it's been available in Adv format for almost a year. If these have been such horrible drives we should have been hearing about it for the past 12 months.

Brentil I'm not saying your data is bad, I'm suggesting that you swoop in as a new user and one of your earliest contributions is a gloom and doom statement on a favored drive of the community; maybe your extrapolation of the behavior of these drives could be flawed in that the file system in the Tivo's seems to be ok with it, maybe not, but step back and look at how it looks to others.


----------



## brentil

I did amend my statement to say that the S3 devices will just not be optimal not that it'll be an issue. The S4 devices right now are not seeing an issue but what I'm saying is that as someone is looking to buy new drives they should take this data into account especially if they plan to buy S4 Preview boxes. Who knows, they drives might be fast enough still even with Advanced Format, but on the same hand they might not be.

It's not doom & gloom, it's information hypothesis by the given facts. I made it red because this is a 270+ page thread and the red would pop out as someone scrolls by. I personally would rather have all the facts available to me to then make an educated decision. Based on what I've researched I personally would not want to buy a Advance Format drive for a S4 device as I do plan to add the up to 3 supported Preview devices when they come out. I'd rather buy a drive now that doesn't have the possibility of being problematic with future devices and then have to replace it again.

Yes it's true we wont know 100% if they'll have issues or not till someone with a S4 with an AF drives buys Preview devices and finds if they have a problem or not. Those people have a right to have the info so they can make a decision.


----------



## dianebrat

brentil said:


> It's not doom & gloom, it's information hypothesis by the given facts. *I made it red because this is a 270+ page thread and the red would pop out as someone scrolls by. * I personally would rather have all the facts available to me to then make an educated decision. Based on what I've researched I personally would not want to buy a Advance Format drive for a S4 device as I do plan to add the up to 3 supported Preview devices when they come out. I'd rather buy a drive now that doesn't have the possibility of being problematic with future devices and then have to replace it again.


I'm sorry but I just don't see how someone new can swoop in and post a big red warning about drives that folks have been using for a year and not see how some like myself might take you to task for shouting the warnings a bit too loudly.

I don't at all disagree with your data points, I disagree with the discussion that they're going to be a negative performance in the Tivo file systems, the Tivo file system does not respond to performance "limitations" in the same way as other computing devices, linux devices included, so a warning based on OS observed issues does not apply to a Tivo in the same manner.

Yes I'm beating the dead horse, but I think it's very important in a widely regarded update thread that all sides of the discussion be fairly represented.


----------



## brentil

Well how about we agree to leave this horse dead then. I've posted my info and you've posted your rebuttal so users can read both and decide what is best for their needs.

With my TiVoHD I've opted to go with the WD10EVDS which is a 1TB AV-GP drive 32 MB 7200 RPM drive. From all my digging this was one of the best 24/7 AV pre-AF drives. It came with the AAM already set to 128 and the wdidle3 process was super easy with the provided iso file. I had both drives out on an open table running next to each other and the WD10EVDS was absolutely silent compared to the stock 160GB WD AV-GP drive that was inside my TiVo. The fact that it is a 7200 RPM drive had me concerned as it is listed as being 2 dba higher than the stock WD drive. It's also going in a room with a fish tank so there's constant ambient noise louder than the TiVo itself.

My old drive had a corrupt header so WinMFS & MFSLive could not work with/repair it so I ended up using InstantCake. Got it back online now and updated to the latest version, I just need to re-pair my CC & SDV now.


----------



## Replacement

So if I wanted to keep as close as stock as possible (besides the capacity) I was thinking that this would be the one.
http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1316193032&sr=1-1
I know that the S3 only will allow up to 1.3 tb to be available, but for the $10 difference between this and the 1 tb I would like to have the additional space.

If I were to get this would there be any other hardware involved in the swap?
Would I need any cables to prep the HD before the install?


----------



## RustySTL

I have two TiVo HD's:

TiVoHD1 - has been upgraded to 1TB drive a couple of years ago.
TiVoHD2 - has original drive.

I use TiVoHD1 most of the time, TiVoHD2 is the spare that records what won't record on the other.

Here's what I'd like to do, I'd like to upgrade TiVoHD1 to a 2TB drive and take the drive from there and upgrade the TiVoHD2 with the 1TB drive.

Is that possible to do just like I was upgrading from the original drives? Anything special I need to do (besides running the other software(s) for the 2TB and all that)?


----------



## jfh3

Darr247 said:


> If you are doing the '$150 swap', I would put a dead SATA drive in it... I think they don't even look at anything but the model and service number on the back... giving the _new_ one the same service level and shipping it to you; then sending your old one to the repair shop without ever opening it.


Tivo does not re-use the same TSNs - a refurb unit will have a different TSN. The second set of number is the TSN will be 0011 rather than 0001.


----------



## ThAbtO

RustySTL said:


> I have two TiVo HD's:
> 
> TiVoHD1 - has been upgraded to 1TB drive a couple of years ago.
> TiVoHD2 - has original drive.
> 
> I use TiVoHD1 most of the time, TiVoHD2 is the spare that records what won't record on the other.
> 
> Here's what I'd like to do, I'd like to upgrade TiVoHD1 to a 2TB drive and take the drive from there and upgrade the TiVoHD2 with the 1TB drive.
> 
> Is that possible to do just like I was upgrading from the original drives? Anything special I need to do (besides running the other software(s) for the 2TB and all that)?


You can simply remove the drive from Tivo1 and install on tivo2, as long as its the same model, such as a 652 to another 652. You would need to run clear & delete everything.

You would need to use JMFS to upgrade to a 2tb drive.


----------



## RustySTL

ThAbtO said:


> You can simply remove the drive from Tivo1 and install on tivo2, as long as its the same model, such as a 652 to another 652. You would need to run clear & delete everything.
> 
> You would need to use JMFS to upgrade to a 2tb drive.


Once I have the 2TB drive set up from the 1TB, I guess I would do the same for the other TiVo? I don't want to lose all my shows and season passes, so I don't want to just move the drive from one TiVo to the other, I want to save the season passes from the 2nd TiVo.


----------



## ThAbtO

The reason you must use c&d everything is because the recordings are encrypted and specific to its own service number. You would need to transfer the recordings to another tivo or PC.


----------



## dwit

RustySTL said:


> Once I have the 2TB drive set up from the 1TB, I guess I would do the same for the other TiVo? I don't want to lose all my shows and season passes, so I don't want to just move the drive from one TiVo to the other, I want to save the season passes from the 2nd TiVo.


Using the JMFS program, you will effectively clone(then expand) the 1 TB drive to the 2 TB drive, including all shows and settings. The 2 TB drive will then be set up and ready to be used in the Tivo unit that was home for the 1 TB drive. If the 1 TB drive is already "supersized" to full capacity, that will carry over. If the 1 TB drive was not supersized, and you wish to supersize the 2 TB drive, you cannot supersize the Tivo HD with JMFS. You must use the WinMFS program to do the final "supersize step".

Then, you will do the same for unit 2, using the 1 TB drive as the target in cloning and expanding all data from the "original" 160GB drive.

You will need to use the WinMfs program to "Supersize" the 1 TB drive to realize the full recording capacity. For the 160 to 1 TB upgrade, you can use the WinMfs program for the entire upgrade, if desired. It's been a while since I have used WinMfs for an upgrade.

I found the JMFS program to be very simple and intuitive in a Premiere 2 TB upgrade.

Good luck.


----------



## RustySTL

Great! I was just making sure that I could use the 1TB drive from tivo1 and upgrade the second TiVo. I was afraid that since it was already a TiVo drive that I wouldn't be able to use winmfs to clone the settings from tivo2. 

I'm basically doing two upgrades.


----------



## unitron

RustySTL said:


> Great! I was just making sure that I could use the 1TB drive from tivo1 and upgrade the second TiVo. I was afraid that since it was already a TiVo drive that I wouldn't be able to use winmfs to clone the settings from tivo2.
> 
> I'm basically doing two upgrades.


It pretty much doesn't matter where or in what a drive was used before.

MFS Live and WinMFS will both overwrite whatever's on the drive (whether you want them to or not once you issue the restore or copy command).

If you want to be sure you can use dd or dd_rescue to copy zeros from /dev/zero to the drive first, but it really isn't necessary, and you don't even have to write zeros to the entire drive, just the first KB or 2 will wipe out all of the partitioning information and make it look like an empty drive.


----------



## jmstorm

I just bought Western Digital My Book AV 1TB USB 2.0 / eSATA Black DVR Expander WDBABT0010HBK-NESN from Newegg, and, in my usual fashion, am seeking advice after fact. Reviews seem to be generally positive, except for the occasional "it crashed my system, and I lost all my shows." Is there really a danger in hooking this thing up?


----------



## dwit

jmstorm said:


> I just bought Western Digital My Book AV 1TB USB 2.0 / eSATA Black DVR Expander WDBABT0010HBK-NESN from Newegg, and, in my usual fashion, am seeking advice after fact. Reviews seem to be generally positive, except for the occasional "it crashed my system, and I lost all my shows." Is there really a danger in hooking this thing up?


It will(should) work like it's supposed to. (Anecdotally) some of the previous WD dvr expanders just seem to have a much *shorter life span* than one might expect from a new hard drive, for whatever reason. That's typically when they seem to be most involved in "Tivo crashing".

But if you want more capacity, and can't do the modification work yourself...not much choice?

Hopefully, these newer My Books' will have a better record.


----------



## bgc

Does WinMFS give you the same capacity as the MFSLive Boot CD when doing an upgrade? I know WinMFS has the supersize option, but I mean before using that are the upgrades the same capacity?

Thanks,
BGC


----------



## dwit

bgc said:


> Does WinMFS give you the same capacity as the MFSLive Boot CD when doing an upgrade? I know WinMFS has the supersize option, but I mean before using that are the upgrades the same capacity?
> 
> Thanks,
> BGC


Essentially yes, because "under the *Win*dows hood", those same *MFS*tools are being used.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

dwit said:


> It will(should) work like it's supposed to. (Anecdotally) some of the previous WD dvr expanders just seem to have a much *shorter life span* than one might expect from a new hard drive, for whatever reason. That's typically when they seem to be most involved in "Tivo crashing".
> 
> But if you want more capacity, and can't do the modification work yourself...not much choice?
> 
> Hopefully, these newer My Books' will have a better record.


That's the thing, though. It's VERY easy to do the upgrade work yourself. Check out the upgrade threads, and if you can plop in a 2TB drive (assuming you have a Premiere or HDTiVO), you'll have a backup drive on the shelf (your original tivo drive) and 150 hours of HD goodness.

Adding the expander, however good its quality, adds several more points of failure, any one of which will make all your shows unviewable:
Cable ends/cable (2 ends, one cable)
Cable jacks (2)
External unit power supply
External unit drive


----------



## dianebrat

ThreeSoFar said:


> That's the thing, though. It's VERY easy to do the upgrade work yourself. *Check out the upgrade threads,* and if you can plop in a 2TB drive (assuming you have a Premiere or HDTiVO), you'll have a backup drive on the shelf (your original tivo drive) and 150 hours of HD goodness.


 dude.. this IS the primary drive upgrade thread


----------



## unitron

dianebrat said:


> dude.. this IS the primary drive upgrade thread


This is a little more the "which drive to use in which machine" thread. There are some others, not to mention the site which may not be mentioned here, where what software and techniques to use are discussed.

When you say primary, do you mean primary drive, or primary thread? 'Cause we've actually been discussing a secondary drive.


----------



## rickydee

Darr247 said:


> If you are doing the '$150 swap', I would put a dead SATA drive in it... I think they don't even look at anything but the model and service number on the back... giving the _new_ one the same service level and shipping it to you; then sending your old one to the repair shop without ever opening it.


Well actually they agreed to give me a Tivo HD in exchange for my S3 which I need to return. I'm tempted to put the original Tivo HD 160 GB drive in my S3 and ship it back but was willing to restore it the way it was originally. Any advice on reversing it from the upgraded drive to the originally 250GB S3 drive?


----------



## rickydee

lpwcomp said:


> Why do you have to return it to TiVo?


It started to have a number of uncorrected RS errors and thought was the S3 was failing.


----------



## unitron

rickydee said:


> Well actually they agreed to give me a Tivo HD in exchange for my S3 which I need to return...


Did they offer a Chevy in place of a Cadillac as well?


----------



## jmstorm

Thanks. But I am a complete technoboob, and I wouldn't know what to do. I appreciate your advice, though.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

jmstorm said:


> Thanks. But I am a complete technoboob, and I wouldn't know what to do. I appreciate your advice, though.


This thread and forum members here can be very helpful if you want to give it a shot.

I've built drives for others in the past for my costs plus shipping plus a little bit. PM me with specifics of your TiVo if you may be interested (I probably already have the same unit or a backup of it from which to build yours). My recommendation would be to upgrade the internal drive to 2TB and not use any external drive at all. A 2TB drive is about $65, is all.

Ah...your post count is low, you won't be able to PM until you hit five or something like that. Put the details of your unit here, anyway.


----------



## dlfl

In a pyTivo forum post I ran across this link to (very detailed) drive upgrade instructions for Series 3 and Premieres:
http://www.rosswalker.co.uk/tivo_upgrade/
Interesting that it's a uk website yet AFAIK none of these models have ever been sold or usable there. (?).

Doing a search of this thread on "rosswalker" returns no hits. Does anyone know about this site and the validity of the instructions?


----------



## dianebrat

dlfl said:


> In a pyTivo forum post I ran across this link to (very detailed) drive upgrade instructions for Series 3 and Premieres:
> http://www.rosswalker.co.uk/tivo_upgrade/
> *Interesting that it's a uk website yet AFAIK none of these models have ever been sold or usable there.* (?).
> 
> Doing a search of this thread on "rosswalker" returns no hits. Does anyone know about this site and the validity of the instructions?


His site mentions that he's currently in the US working at San Diego Supercomputer Center but from the UK, that would explain those two items.


----------



## rickydee

lpwcomp said:


> Why do you have to return it to TiVo?





unitron said:


> Did they offer a Chevy in place of a Cadillac as well?


Actually with Fios charging $4 per cable card the HD was the better choice. Not really much difference with the S3 given I didn't really used the OLED display - and I only need one cable card with the HD vs the S3 needing 2 cable cards. Am I missing anything else given I was upgrading to 2TB either way?


----------



## dlfl

rickydee said:


> Actually with Fios charging $4 per cable card the HD was the better choice. Not really much difference with the S3 given I didn't really used the OLED display - and I only need one cable card with the HD vs the S3 needing 2 cable cards. Am I missing anything else given I was upgrading to 2TB either way?


There are people who prefer the S3 for slight claimed performance advantages (and for the OLED display). However I believe there has been a higher rate of Power Supply failures in S3's, perhaps due to their greater average age and/or because "capacitor disease" peaked in the years they were manufactured.

IIRC there is no DIY (i.e., JMFS) method to upgrade an S3 to 2TB, whereas there is one for the THD. However, I believe DVR_DUDE does sell plug-in 2TB drives for the S3.


----------



## dianebrat

rickydee said:


> Actually with Fios charging $4 per cable card the HD was the better choice. Not really much difference with the S3 given I didn't really used the OLED display - and I only need one cable card with the HD vs the S3 needing 2 cable cards. Am I missing anything else given I was upgrading to 2TB either way?


I view my S3 as a Cadillac and my TivoHD was relegated to Dad when I bought a Premiere, I never warmed to it, and it always felt like the cheap offspring to me. The extra $4 for the 2nd CableCARD is well worth it for the superior machine.


----------



## unitron

dianebrat said:


> I view my S3 as a Cadillac and my TivoHD was relegated to Dad when I bought a Premiere, I never warmed to it, and it always felt like the cheap offspring to me. The extra $4 for the 2nd CableCARD is well worth it for the superior machine.


There's almost always a $50 HD on a Craigslist somewhere, but almost never a "thermometer front" at any price. I guess it's one of those "from my cold, dead hands" things.


----------



## swren0

Has anyone ever taken the hard drive out of a Western Digital My AV Book Expander and used it to upgrade a TiVo HD? I have had numerous problems with the Expander attached to my TiVo HD. TiVo tech support told me to replace the SATA cable which came with the Expander. I have replaced it with 4 or 5 different cables and every one eventually failed. I finally decided to un-marry the Expander from the TiVo and upgrade the internal hard drive to 1TB. Since I don't plan to use the Expander any longer I tore it apart and removed the hard drive and it turned out to be a WD10EVVS manufactured 13 Nov 2010. This model manufactured after September 18th (it didn't say what year) was removed from the compatible drives list due to incompatibilities. It also has issues due to Intellipark. I am hoping that, since my drive was set up by Western Digital expressly to be used with a TiVo that intellipark will already be disabled and it won't have the compatibility problems which caused the drive to be removed from the compatible drives list.


----------



## unitron

swren0 said:


> Has anyone ever taken the hard drive out of a Western Digital My AV Book Expander and used it to upgrade a TiVo HD? I have had numerous problems with the Expander attached to my TiVo HD. TiVo tech support told me to replace the SATA cable which came with the Expander. I have replaced it with 4 or 5 different cables and every one eventually failed. I finally decided to un-marry the Expander from the TiVo and upgrade the internal hard drive to 1TB. Since I don't plan to use the Expander any longer I tore it apart and removed the hard drive and it turned out to be a WD10EVVS manufactured 13 Nov 2010. This model manufactured after September 18th (it didn't say what year) was removed from the compatible drives list due to incompatibilities. It also has issues due to Intellipark. I am hoping that, since my drive was set up by Western Digital expressly to be used with a TiVo that intellipark will already be disabled and it won't have the compatibility problems which caused the drive to be removed from the compatible drives list.


First of all, whose compatibility list?

Was the combination of the drive and the enclosure removed from this list, or just the drive itself?

Is that particular enclosure/drive combination on TiVo's approved list?


----------



## ThAbtO

Cracking my DVR Expander case


----------



## Canoehead

I was searching around on using my old Mac Pro prepare a new WD EURS drive for a Tivo S3 rescue - looks like it has been done successfully before:

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/tips/Disable_WDGreen_HeadParking.htm


----------



## veritas01

I have used Instant Cake in the past. It is moderately easy to use if you have a spare computer hanging around to use for the burn. However, they doubled their price recently. Nothing new about the software. Nothing better, faster, or snazzier. Just more expensive. Ticked me off. 

My recommendation is ...they are several people selling drive upgrades on EBAY. I just bought a 2 TB for my Model3. Opened the case. Took out the old one. Put in the new one. Powered up...voila. Very easy and when you add the cost of a new drive, finding the right quiet drive, and buying the Instant Cake and going through the hassle of loading it to the new drive....buying it already set up is the way to go. 

Getting another 2tb in a few weeks so all 3 of my series 3 will be 2 tb. HD really uses up a lot of space. My wife is a dancing with the stars fan...that series alone with take up a bunch of space.


----------



## puinsai

Hi all,

This forum is amazing but I am confused and I need some guidance.

I am a newbie and after searching for a few days I was surprised that I couldn't find a definitive DIY solution for upgrading my Series 3 TCD648250B to a 2TB where I could use the full capacity. 

Don't get me wrong, there are some amazing guides and tips but no one specifically addresses the process with the Series 3 TCD648250B. Most people just comment that "there is no definitive DIY solution". That can't be because people are doing it and there seems to be way too many people who have successfully completed the process for it to be a commercial solution only. I really like this Tivo and I dig the OLED on the front. It is very useful and I was sad they did away with it.

Can anyone help me or point me in a direction to how this is done properly besides just buying a pre-formatted drive from DVR Dude or Weaknees?

I followed all the directions I could find online and I was able to put in a new 2TB drive and transfer all my shows and settings from my 1TB drive (Upgraded by Weaknees about 2 years ago) but I am only getting 157 Hours of HD which means it's not using the full capacity. I used Winmfs, supersize and Wdiddle3. My Tivo works fine but it's just not using the full capacity of the 2TB drive. I have seen the posts that I have to use an updated Kernel to get full capacity and I see where that can be downloaded but I don't see any specific directions on how to install it or when. 

Any guidance is much appreciated.


----------



## dwit

puinsai said:


> Hi all,
> 
> This forum is amazing but I am confused and I need some guidance.
> 
> I am a newbie and after searching for a few days I was surprised that I couldn't find a definitive DIY solution for upgrading my Series 3 TCD648250B to a 2TB where I could use the full capacity.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, there are some amazing guides and tips but no one specifically addresses the process with the Series 3 TCD648250B. Most people just comment that "there is no definitive DIY solution". That can't be because people are doing it and there seems to be way too many people who have successfully completed the process for it to be a commercial solution only. I really like this Tivo and I dig the OLED on the front. It is very useful and I was sad they did away with it.
> 
> Can anyone help me or point me in a direction to how this is done properly besides just buying a pre-formatted drive from DVR Dude or Weaknees?
> 
> I followed all the directions I could find online and I was able to put in a new 2TB drive and transfer all my shows and settings from my 1TB drive (Upgraded by Weaknees about 2 years ago) but I am only getting 157 Hours of HD which means it's not using the full capacity. I used Winmfs, supersize and Wdiddle3. My Tivo works fine but it's just not using the full capacity of the 2TB drive. I have seen the posts that I have to use an updated Kernel to get full capacity and I see where that can be downloaded but I don't see any specific directions on how to install it or when.
> 
> Any guidance is much appreciated.


There is no guide* here* for upgrading the 648x unit to 2 TB because for years, the conventional wisdom was that it could not be done(in a stable fashion, for whatever reason). It is not known precisely how weaknees, dvrdude, etc. manage to achieve theirs.

There have been claims of posters here that they have done it simply using WinMfs, but no details, and they don't seem to stick around to give any.

There is also some special hardware modification($) that may allow for the upgrade, but that's a different story, imo.


----------



## mitchr

I'm looking to upgrade the internal drive on my Series 3.
I just unmarried the WD expansion drive after it failed.
Is there a list of current recommended internal drives?
The lists I have seen are a few years old.
Also, will the WinMFS procedure work with Windows7?


----------



## ThreeSoFar

mitchr said:


> I'm looking to upgrade the internal drive on my Series 3.
> I just unmarried the WD expansion drive after it failed.
> Is there a list of current recommended internal drives?
> The lists I have seen are a few years old.
> Also, will the WinMFS procedure work with Windows7?


Anyone in this position, the first thing I'd recommend is have you looked into buying a new premiere?

Whether or not you're lifetime'd now, you can buy lifetime on a brand new (refurb'd....same difference) box, and it only needs one cable card to work with both HDTV tuners. It's trivially upgradable to 2TB, about 300 hours of HD. And your existing S3 still keeps working fine as it is.....use in another room, give to a friend, or sell it.

It's old hardware. The drive is just the most likely thing to fail, not the only thing.


----------



## mitchr

ThreeSoFar said:


> Anyone in this position, the first thing I'd recommend is have you looked into buying a new premiere?
> 
> Whether or not you're lifetime'd now, you can buy lifetime on a brand new (refurb'd....same difference) box, and it only needs one cable card to work with both HDTV tuners. It's trivially upgradable to 2TB, about 300 hours of HD. And your existing S3 still keeps working fine as it is.....use in another room, give to a friend, or sell it.
> 
> It's old hardware. The drive is just the most likely thing to fail, not the only thing.


That's good advice, but I'd still want to increase the disk space on the S3.
Can you recommend a 1TB drive to do that?
Also, if I got a Premiere, is the higher capacity one better soundwise than the cheaper one? Looks like the only other difference.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

mitchr said:


> That's good advice, but I'd still want to increase the disk space on the S3.
> Can you recommend a 1TB drive to do that?
> Also, if I got a Premiere, is the higher capacity one better soundwise than the cheaper one? Looks like the only other difference.


One caveat--I heard something recently about a 4-tuner capable Premiere due out soon. I figured it would need two multi-stream cablecards, but I'm told just one. Its release may bring 2-tuner Premieres down in price as they clear their inventory, but they're really cheap so how much further down can they go? Or you may wait if you need four tuners to deconflict shows.

Any SATA drive will work, both in your S3 and in a Premiere if you get it. I'm seeing SATA III out now--pretty sure you don't want those, they don't get you anything better and may not even work. Most here, including me, are using one of the WD Green drives and report good success and low heat/power/sound. I had good success with Samsung drives back in the IDE days (S1-2)--at that point I wasn't trusting WD and they've gotten better.

Your S3 will actually do a bit more than 1TB, something like 1.25TB. And it will just not use the rest of the drive--so a 1.5TB or 2TB would also work.

At Amazon, I see:
WD10EARS (1TB) $57 shipped
WD15EARS (1.5TB) $64 shipped
WD20EARS (2TB) $80 shipped

At Newegg, I see:
WD10EARS (1TB) $57 shipped
WD15EARS (1.5TB) $65 shipped
WD20EARS (2TB) $80 shipped


----------



## ThreeSoFar

mitchr said:


> That's good advice, but I'd still want to increase the disk space on the S3.
> Can you recommend a 1TB drive to do that?
> Also, if I got a Premiere, is the higher capacity one better soundwise than the cheaper one? Looks like the only other difference.


As to your sound question (forgot that one): If it says THX, it's capable of better, yes. But I wouldn't bother. But you'd need a THX certified system _*and*_ speaker setup, which frankly is likely impossible in most home environments. And IMO, not at all worth it.

The biggest advantage to me of upgrading the smaller sized one is the stock drive becomes your backup in the event of drive failure down the line. It's best if you let the stock drive sync up with your cableco's system, put all your programs on it, make sure it isn't DOA or anything by using it a few weeks, then use that to upgrade to your brand new 2TB. The stock drive just sits on the shelf as your backup.


----------



## HazelW

ThreeSoFar said:


> One caveat--I heard something recently about a 4-tuner capable Premiere due out soon. It would use two multi-stream cablecards.


The 4 tuner will only require one M type cable card.


----------



## ccrider2

ThreeSoFar said:


> ...............I'm seeing SATA III out now--pretty sure you don't want those, they don't get you anything better and may not even work....................


"OH Joe, say it ain't so"...... 

Just bought a Seagate Barracuda ST31000524AS SATA 6.0Gb/s 1TB for $50, to put on the shelf as a spare for my S3. It seems to work OK in an older USB-2 dock, so I assumed it would in the S3. Guess I'll need to swap it out to see for sure. 
Perhaps someone can chime in..... if they have already tried this.

Thanks For Any Ideas on this matter,


----------



## unitron

ccrider2 said:


> "OH Joe, say it ain't so"......
> 
> Just bought a Seagate Barracuda ST31000524AS SATA 6.0Gb/s 1TB for $50, to put on the shelf as a spare for my S3. It seems to work OK in an older USB-2 dock, so I assumed it would in the S3. Guess I'll need to swap it out to see for sure.
> Perhaps someone can chime in..... if they have already tried this.
> 
> Thanks For Any Ideas on this matter,


Can you jumper it down to 3Gb?


----------



## ccrider2

unitron said:


> Can you jumper it down to 3Gb?


Can't find anything in the online manual about using jumpers. There is a 4 pin block next to the data port, but the manual mentions nothing about it. All I could find was the bit below about the chipset and autonegotiation support. Although the word 'usually' is also used, so I guess I'm not sure, or perhaps they aren't either.  Like, what's the reason for the unmentioned jumper block?

http://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/support/docs/100636864b.pdf

"Serial ATA drives are designed for easy installation. It is usually not necessary to set any jumpers on the drive for
proper operation; however, if you connect the drive and receive a drive not detected error, your SATA-equipped
motherboard or host adapter may use a chipset that does not support SATA speed autonegotiation."

Thanks,


----------



## unitron

ccrider2 said:


> Can't find anything in the online manual about using jumpers. There is a 4 pin block next to the data port, but the manual mentions nothing about it. All I could find was the bit below about the chipset and autonegotiation support. Although the word 'usually' is also used, so I guess I'm not sure, or perhaps they aren't either.  Like, what's the reason for the unmentioned jumper block?
> 
> http://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/support/docs/100636864b.pdf
> 
> "Serial ATA drives are designed for easy installation. It is usually not necessary to set any jumpers on the drive for
> proper operation; however, if you connect the drive and receive a drive not detected error, your SATA-equipped
> motherboard or host adapter may use a chipset that does not support SATA speed autonegotiation."
> 
> Thanks,


When the 3Gb (SATA II, although that's not an official designation by the industry group that sets SATA standards) drives came out, many of them could be jumpered to hard limit them to SATA I (1.5Gb), and I think there are some SATA IIIs that can be jumpered down to SATA II, but if yours can, it's not documented.

If you can't return the drive for a full refund, go ahead and dd your TiVo drive to it and try it in the TiVo to see if it works or not so that you'll know.


----------



## ccrider2

unitron said:


> ...............If you can't return the drive for a full refund, go ahead and dd your TiVo drive to it and try it in the TiVo to see if it works or not so that you'll know.


Look like my only option, but if TiVo doesn't support port speed autonegotiation....then it might be a waste of time. I contacted Seagate Tech Support via Facebook and found this info: 
-----------------
Can a ST31000524AS be jumpered to run at 3Gb/s instead of 6Gb/s? Can't find any info about the jumper block in the manual. Thanks Much!

Seagate Support No, there is not a jumper setting to change the max transfer speed to 3Gb/s. This drive will auto-negotiate with the SATA controller to determine the max speed that both devices can communicate at however.

------------------


----------



## vectorcatch

There is no reason the TiVo shouldn't support auto negotiation of the link. During the transition from Sata I to Sata II many VIA chipsets did not support auto negotiation. This is why hard drive manufacturers added the jumper. All current day chipsets and even most non-VIA chipsets of the time supported auto negotiation. The drive should just auto negotiate to the greatest common denominator for speed (works just like Ethernet).

I would just try it, but I suspect you will be fine.


----------



## ccrider2

vectorcatch said:


> There is no reason the TiVo shouldn't support auto negotiation of the link. During the transition from Sata I to Sata II many VIA chipsets did not support auto negotiation. This is why hard drive manufacturers added the jumper. All current day chipsets and even most non-VIA chipsets of the time supported auto negotiation. The drive should just auto negotiate to the greatest common denominator for speed (works just like Ethernet).
> 
> I would just try it, but I suspect you will be fine.


:up:

Thanks for your vote of confidence. When I get the time to try this I'll post my results....As it looks, barring a failure of my current drive, might not be till the reruns start next Spring.


----------



## Teggy

Apologies if this was answered somewhere, but I couldn't find anything definitive. Given that the WD DVR expanders are out of stock nearly everywhere (even on the WE site), has there been any indication that a 2TB expander will be coming out or even if the product is being discontinued?


----------



## mitchr

Did you have any softboot problems with the green drives and need to modify Intellipark (I think its called that).
I also see W10EURS on Newegg.
Do I understand that the drive should be no greater than 3Gb/s ?


----------



## Soapm

I thought I would report I was able to copy and expand my factory TivoHD drive to 2TB using only Winmfs. I think the trick was shutting down and removing the factory drive after copy. I then booted back up and expanded the 2TB in winmfs. I got an error saying I was creating a partition larger than 1TB and I picked yes and presto. I had a 2TB TivoHD drive. Supersized...

*EDIT... Read to post 8201*


----------



## RickL66

Soapm said:


> I thought I would report I was able to copy and expand my factory TivoHD drive to 2TB using only Winmfs. I think the trick was shutting down and removing the factory drive after copy. I then booted back up and expanded the 2TB in winmfs. I got an error saying I was creating a partition larger than 1TB and I picked yes and presto. I had a 2TB TivoHD drive. Supersized...


Is that with Winmfs 9.3? I found the download on another forum and it was last updated in 2008. Anything newer?


----------



## brentil

The new Premiere Elite uses the WD WD20EURS drive.


AV-GP drive
SATA III
64 MB buffer
2 TB
24 db @ idle
25 db @ seek
SilkStream™ technology to capture data from up to 12 simultaneous HD video streams
5400 RPM
Advanced Format*

*Of note as the partitions are built by TiVo on the drive by them they have the ability to align them to the 4K which we as users replacing drives can not do. Aligning the partition tables remove the majority of the performance penalties that an unaligned drive suffers. If you're putting it in a S3 as discussed before you shouldn't have issues and until it's been tested who knows if a S4 non-Elite would have issues or not once streaming is enabled.


----------



## unitron

brentil said:


> The new Premiere Elite uses the WD WD20EURS drive.
> 
> 
> AV-GP drive
> SATA III
> 64 MB buffer
> 2 TB
> 24 db @ idle
> 25 db @ seek
> SilkStream technology to capture data from up to 12 simultaneous HD video streams
> 5400 RPM
> Active Format*
> 
> *Of note as the partitions are built by TiVo on the drive by them they have the ability to align them to the 4K which we as users replacing drives can not do. Aligning the partition tables remove the majority of the performance penalties that an unaligned drive suffers. If you're putting it in a S3 as discussed before you shouldn't have issues and until it's been tested who knows if a S4 non-Elite would have issues or not once streaming is enabled.


And by active format, do you mean "advanced format"?

Or has WD come up with another way to confuse the issue?

It's interesting how the industry is not making a big deal out of the switch to 4K sectors, (NOW WITH ADVANCED FORMAT!!!) but instead seeming to do their best to bury it in the fine print whether a drive is 512 or 4K. I'm always having to load the pictures on New Egg and hit the magnify tool to get a look at the drive label itself.


----------



## brentil

Typo on my part, Advanced format is what it should read, updating now, thanks!


----------



## Soapm

RickL66 said:


> Is that with Winmfs 9.3? I found the download on another forum and it was last updated in 2008. Anything newer?


winmfs_beta9_3f.zip


----------



## unitron

RickL66 said:


> Is that with Winmfs 9.3? I found the download on another forum and it was last updated in 2008. Anything newer?


This

http://mfslive.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=976

is as straight from the horse's mouth as you're going to get.


----------



## bishoptf

Looking at this drive for a s3 - TCD652160, looking at this drive, since I can source from my local micro center, any other suggestions...besides this one?

ST320005N4A1AS-RK 


only looking at the 1TB range...


----------



## unitron

bishoptf said:


> Looking at this drive for a s3 - TCD652160, looking at this drive, since I can source from my local micro center, any other suggestions...besides this one?
> 
> ST320005N4A1AS-RK
> 
> only looking at the 1TB range...


Are you looking for a 1TB drive or a 2TB drive?

Because that's a 2TB drive.

I haven't been able to find out what the model number of the actual drive inside that box is. The RK stands for "retail kit".


----------



## TheLongshot

Here we go again.

Before, I installed a 1TB EARS drive in my Tivo, it worked for a few months, then started rebooting on me randomly. So, I sent it off for a warranty replacement.

Well, the same thing is happening again with the replacement. After working fine for a few months, I came home to a gray screen. Rebooted and watched some stuff on my Tivo, then it rebooted while I was watching it.

So, now what?


----------



## unitron

TheLongshot said:


> Here we go again.
> 
> Before, I installed a 1TB EARS drive in my Tivo, it worked for a few months, then started rebooting on me randomly. So, I sent it off for a warranty replacement.
> 
> Well, the same thing is happening again with the replacement. After working fine for a few months, I came home to a gray screen. Rebooted and watched some stuff on my Tivo, then it rebooted while I was watching it.
> 
> So, now what?


What model TiVo?

If it rebooted while you were watching, I'd be suspicious of the power supply.

Inspect it carefully for "capacitor disease".


----------



## TheLongshot

unitron said:


> What model TiVo?


TivoHD



> If it rebooted while you were watching, I'd be suspicious of the power supply.
> 
> Inspect it carefully for "capacitor disease".


Problem is, it worked just fine when I put the original drive back in before. In any case, it was recently (as in just over a year ago) replaced by Tivo.


----------



## unitron

TheLongshot said:


> TivoHD
> 
> Problem is, it worked just fine when I put the original drive back in before. In any case, it was recently (as in just over a year ago) replaced by Tivo.


The original drive was replaced by TiVo, the power supply was replaced by TiVo, or the TiVo was replaced by TiVo?


----------



## TheLongshot

unitron said:


> The original drive was replaced by TiVo, the power supply was replaced by TiVo, or the TiVo was replaced by TiVo?


The whole Tivo. I had issues with my previous Tivo. Replaced the hard drive and the power supply. Neither solved the problem so I had to call Tivo and buy a refurb as a replacement.


----------



## unitron

TheLongshot said:


> The whole Tivo. I had issues with my previous Tivo. Replaced the hard drive and the power supply. Neither solved the problem so I had to call Tivo and buy a refurb as a replacement.


Did you send the Western Digital drive off for warranty replacement, or the TiVo, or both?

Because your first post made it sound like it was the WD drive that you replaced and that you were now having trouble with the replacement WD drive.


----------



## TheLongshot

unitron said:


> Did you send the Western Digital drive off for warrany replacement or the TiVo or both?
> 
> Because your first post made it sound like it was the WD drive that you replaced and were now having trouble with the replacement.


Ok, I'll back up.

Just over a year ago I sent in my Tivo for a replacement, after everything I tried to do to revive the Tivo failed.

This is that thread: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=454566

I upgraded the hard drive with the 1TB EARS in January. It worked fine for a while then started rebooting in April. Eventually I cleared it off and sent the hard drive in for a warranty replacement. Now, the replacement hard drive, which I installed in July is displaying the same behavior.


----------



## unitron

TheLongshot said:


> Ok, I'll back up.
> 
> Just over a year ago I sent in my Tivo for a replacement, after everything I tried to do to revive the Tivo failed.
> 
> This is that thread: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=454566
> 
> I upgraded the hard drive with the 1TB EARS in January. It worked fine for a while then started rebooting in April. Eventually I cleared it off and sent the hard drive in for a warranty replacement. Now, the replacement hard drive, which I installed in July is displaying the same behavior.


What evidence did you have in April that the refurbed TiVo was fine and the WD drive was faulty?

Did you pull it and run the WD diagnostic software on it?

Have you done so on the drive you have now?

Does the current refurb'ed TiVo work without issue on the original hard drive with which it came?


----------



## TheLongshot

unitron said:


> What evidence did you have in April that the refurbed TiVo was fine and the WD drive was faulty?
> 
> Did you pull it and run the WD diagnostic software on it?


I did, and it seemed to pass. I put it back in, and it lasted three weeks before it started having problems again.



> Have you done so on the drive you have now?


Not yet.



> Does the current refurb'ed TiVo work without issue on the original hard drive with which it came?


I've never had an issue with the original hard drive in it.


----------



## unitron

TheLongshot said:


> I did, and it seemed to pass. I put it back in, and it lasted three weeks before it started having problems again.
> 
> Not yet.
> 
> I've never had an issue with the original hard drive in it.


Yes, but now that you have a problem with something, have you taken out the WD and put the original drive back in to see if it's drive trouble or TiVo trouble?


----------



## TheLongshot

unitron said:


> Yes, but now that you have a problem with something, have you taken out the WD and put the original drive back in to see if it's drive trouble or TiVo trouble?


Yes, I put the original drive back in and last I checked it was still working. As I showed above, the original drive was in the Tivo from April to July with no issues.


----------



## Mikeyis4dcats

Any current suggestions for a Tivo HD replacement drive (1TB)?

Looks like the drives on the upgrade recommendation list are all out of production...


----------



## brentil

I installed the WD WD10EVDS drive in mine. It's a DVR specific drive. I had it running next to the stock drive and it made less noise than the stock one.

Western Digital 1 TB AV-GP SATA 3 Gb/s Intellipower 32 MB


----------



## unitron

TheLongshot said:


> Yes, I put the original drive back in and last I checked it was still working. As I showed above, the original drive was in the Tivo from April to July with no issues.


Okay, I'm going to go with either you've gotten a second WD drive that also failed prematurely, or the WD draws a little more current than the stock drive and the power supply is just marginal enough that it can't supply that extra bit of current, which brings down the power going to the motherboard just enough to crash it.


----------



## TheLongshot

unitron said:


> Okay, I'm going to go with either you've gotten a second WD drive that also failed prematurely, or the WD draws a little more current than the stock drive and the power supply is just marginal enough that it can't supply that extra bit of current, which brings down the power going to the motherboard just enough to crash it.


The latter theory sounds more logical, since I fail to see how two drives could fail the same exact way.

Question is, what do I do about it? I hate to spend more money into the bottomless pit that is this Tivo and be unsure if it will actually solve the problem.

Edit: Maybe I shouldn't have spoken too soon. Turned it on today and it had a stuck reboot.

I swear, Tivo makes the most fragile POS electronics I've ever seen...


----------



## unitron

TheLongshot said:


> The latter theory sounds more logical, since I fail to see how two drives could fail the same exact way.
> 
> Question is, what do I do about it? I hate to spend more money into the bottomless pit that is this Tivo and be unsure if it will actually solve the problem.


I have seen two of the same model drive fail in the same way, which I suspect means a flaw in the design and production of that particular model.

But I'd still be suspicious of the power supply.

You can try powering the hard drive from a computer's power supply (get it spun up before plugging the TiVo power cord into the wall socket), and see if that makes a difference.


----------



## TheLongshot

unitron said:


> But I'd still be suspicious of the power supply.


I guess I do need to be now. Just tried to play something on the original drive and it rebooted on me.

Which means now I need to spend $100 bucks and wait a week because the only vendors of power supplies are on the west coast.


----------



## unitron

TheLongshot said:


> I guess I do need to be now. Just tried to play something on the original drive and it rebooted on me.
> 
> Which means now I need to spend $100 bucks and wait a week because the only vendors of power supplies are on the west coast.


Before you blow a Benjamin, try the power the hard drive separately trick, and also closely inspect the power supply for capacitor disease.

Go to badcaps.net and to lcdalternatives to learn how to visually identify bad electrolytic capacitors. Sometimes it's nothing more than a slight bulge on the top (which should be perfectly flat).

The white stuff that looks like marshmellow creme on the power supply is just a kind of glue to hold things in place and not leakage from the caps.

$100 will buy a soldering iron, plenty of solder (use tin/lead, or maybe it's lead/tin, 63/37 or 60/40, rosin core), a solder sucker, and the necessary replacement capacitor(s), with a lot of lettuce left over.


----------



## lpwcomp

TheLongshot said:


> The latter theory sounds more logical, since I fail to see how two drives could fail the same exact way.
> 
> Question is, what do I do about it? I hate to spend more money into the bottomless pit that is this Tivo and be unsure if it will actually solve the problem.
> 
> Edit: Maybe I shouldn't have spoken too soon. Turned it on today and it had a stuck reboot.
> 
> I swear, Tivo makes the most fragile POS electronics I've ever seen...


And you are sure that Intellipark was disabled on this drive?


----------



## unitron

lpwcomp said:


> And you are sure that Intellipark was disabled on this drive?


I think he (she?) is talking about with the original drive re-installed.


----------



## lpwcomp

unitron said:


> I think he (she?) is talking about with the original drive re-installed.


Ah. Missed that.


----------



## TheLongshot

unitron said:


> Before you blow a Benjamin, try the power the hard drive separately trick, and also closely inspect the power supply for capacitor disease.
> 
> Go to badcaps.net and to lcdalternatives to learn how to visually identify bad electrolytic capacitors. Sometimes it's nothing more than a slight bulge on the top (which should be perfectly flat).
> 
> The white stuff that looks like marshmellow creme on the power supply is just a kind of glue to hold things in place and not leakage from the caps.
> 
> $100 will buy a soldering iron, plenty of solder (use tin/lead, or maybe it's lead/tin, 63/37 or 60/40, rosin core), a solder sucker, and the necessary replacement capacitor(s), with a lot of lettuce left over.


Thanks for the advice. I read up on what you were saying and checked the power supply and motherboard. No bad caps as far as I can tell.

As for the hard drive trick, how do I manage that? Where do I find a separate power supply to run the hard drive? I wonder if Microcenter has something like that...


----------



## unitron

TheLongshot said:


> Thanks for the advice. I read up on what you were saying and checked the power supply and motherboard. No bad caps as far as I can tell.
> 
> As for the hard drive trick, how do I manage that? Where do I find a separate power supply to run the hard drive? I wonder if Microcenter has something like that...


Don't you know that you're supposed to have a spare, open cased, dedicated to TiVo-hacking, computer sitting next to the TiVo on which you're working?

Actually, if you have the hard drive attached as a load, you can use just an AT or ATX computer power supply by itself (for a short time, maybe 30 minutes max). The AT supply will have an actual switch (but no SATA power plugs, so you'll need an adapter). The ATX supply may or may not have a line switch, but you'll still need to temporarily short the proper pin* to ground to get it to "start".

As I think I said, start the drive first so that it's already spun up when you power up the TiVo.

*There should be only one green wire in the bundle running to the 20 or 24 pin motherboard plug, and it should be the 4th wire in from the corner. That's the PS_ON pin.

Here's a link to a pin-out diagram.

http://www.smpspowersupply.com/connectors-pinouts.html

Make "bleeping" sure you have the right wire before you short it to ground, which should be the black wire on either side.


----------



## TheLongshot

So, your solution is to hook up an ATX power supply (not exactly a lot of room where my Tivo is) to the hard drive, and leave it that way for a few months to see if MAYBE it will solve my problem?

Seems...Impractical. Particularly when I don't have an ATX power supply handy that isn't being used in a computer.


----------



## unitron

TheLongshot said:


> So, your solution is to hook up an ATX power supply (not exactly a lot of room where my Tivo is) to the hard drive, and leave it that way for a few months to see if MAYBE it will solve my problem?
> 
> Seems...Impractical. Particularly when I don't have an ATX power supply handy that isn't being used in a computer.


My apologies for spending my time wasting yours trying to give you the benefit of my experience and knowledge, such as it is.

What I had in mind was to take your current situation--even original drive no longer works--and change one variable, the load on the power supply.

If letting the power supply put all of whatever it's got left into powering just the motherboard, while the drive is powered externally, is successful, where trying to power the board and the drive wasn't, then it shouldn't take a few months to take that as a pretty good indication that the power supply is no longer up to snuff.


----------



## TheLongshot

unitron said:


> My apologies for spending my time wasting yours trying to give you the benefit of my experience and knowledge, such as it is.
> 
> What I had in mind was to take your current situation--even original drive no longer works--and change one variable, the load on the power supply.
> 
> If letting the power supply put all of whatever it's got left into powering just the motherboard, while the drive is powered externally, is successful, where trying to power the board and the drive wasn't, then it shouldn't take a few months to take that as a pretty good indication that the power supply is no longer up to snuff.


And if I had an ATX power supply, maybe that would be a good idea. But, considering that buying and returning a Tivo power supply may be the same (and I wouldn't need to waste money on an ATX power supply that I don't need.), it seems to be the better idea just to buy the darn power supply and be done with it.

BTW, I do think your advice is valuable. I'm just trying to decide what is best for my situation.


----------



## Soapm

Soapm said:


> I thought I would report I was able to copy and expand my factory TivoHD drive to 2TB using only Winmfs. I think the trick was shutting down and removing the factory drive after copy. I then booted back up and expanded the 2TB in winmfs. I got an error saying I was creating a partition larger than 1TB and I picked yes and presto. I had a 2TB TivoHD drive. Supersized...


I want to add to my report, once the drive got just over 300 gigs full it began rebooting every 20 minutes or so. WinMFS may not be the cause but it also may not be the solution.


----------



## lpwcomp

Soapm said:


> I want to add to my report, once the drive got just over 300 gigs full it began rebooting every 20 minutes or so. WinMFS may not be the cause but it also may not be the solution.


So basically, WinMFS can't do what it said it can't do.


----------



## unitron

TheLongshot said:


> And if I had an ATX power supply, maybe that would be a good idea. But, considering that buying and returning a Tivo power supply may be the same (and I wouldn't need to waste money on an ATX power supply that I don't need.), it seems to be the better idea just to buy the darn power supply and be done with it.
> 
> BTW, I do think your advice is valuable. I'm just trying to decide what is best for my situation.


You indicated possesion of an ATX supply in at least one computer.

Take the cover off of the computer. Take the cover off of the TiVo. Put the TiVo next to the computer. Hook up a portable TV to the TiVo. You should be able to get a power lead out of the computer far enough to connect to the Tivo drive if you put the TiVo drive right next to the computer, and you can borrow the data cable from the boot drive to connect the TiVo drive to the TiVo motherboard. Start the computer, that'll start the TiVo drive. Start the Tivo. See if it works with the power supply only having to power the motherboard. If it does, suspect the power supply of not being able to power both the motherboard and the hard drive.


----------



## TheLongshot

unitron said:


> You indicated possesion of an ATX supply in at least one computer.
> 
> Take the cover off of the computer. Take the cover off of the TiVo. Put the TiVo next to the computer. Hook up a portable TV to the TiVo. You should be able to get a power lead out of the computer far enough to connect to the Tivo drive if you put the TiVo drive right next to the computer, and you can borrow the data cable from the boot drive to connect the TiVo drive to the TiVo motherboard. Start the computer, that'll start the TiVo drive. Start the Tivo. See if it works with the power supply only having to power the motherboard. If it does, suspect the power supply of not being able to power both the motherboard and the hard drive.


Problem is getting the computer, Tivo and TV in the same room. My computer isn't near the Tivo, and the TV near my computer is a el cheapo coax-only SDTV.

I'll see what I can do...


----------



## unitron

TheLongshot said:


> Problem is getting the computer, Tivo and TV in the same room. My computer isn't near the Tivo, and the TV near my computer is a el cheapo coax-only SDTV.
> 
> I'll see what I can do...


You know those little black and white battery/AC portable televisions the drugstores used to sell for $30 or $40, before the digital switchover? Some of them had composite video (yellow jack) and mono audio (white jack) inputs.

You ought to be able to find one cheap on Craigslist. It'll be good enough to see a TiVo bootup screen.

Alternatively, if you've got an old VCR still lying around somewhere you can use it to change composite video to channel 3 or 4 RF to feed that TV near your computer.


----------



## ThAbtO

Or just get a RF Modulator.


----------



## tuxedo125

richsadams said:


> The only way to find out if you need to adjust the Intellipark timeout is to perform the upgrade, install the drive in TiVo and see if it will boot up. If it boots up try a menu restart. If it reboots you're good to go. You can run the wdidle3.exe utility any time, before or after the upgrade.
> 
> Follow the directions in Section V, #14 of the first post on this thread.
> 
> Happy upgrading!


Rich I have a failing 1.5 GB Seagate ST31500541AS drive which I upgraded to an HD (03/2010). TIVO tech tells me the drive is failing..... it freezes up sometimes during a recorded show. I received an identical drive from Segate under warranty exchange.
I want to copy with MFScopy the old drive to the new. The old drive is hooked to my PC (Vista Business 32) using a SATA adapter using USB. The new is directly to my MB. WinMFS is currently performing the copy...... slowly given MFS Media Partitions. Will this work?

What about the step 18 message

18. Is there anything special I need to do for drives larger than 1TB?

You must start with an original (non-expanded) TiVo image; images from upgraded TiVos will not work. You must also use WinMFS to prepare drives larger than 1TB. Older tools such as MFSLive and InstantCake do not support >1TB capacities.

Under the latest version of WinMFS (v9.3f), the following message is displayed when you attempt to use a drive larger than 1TB:

Do I need to use my original 160GB drive? I would lose all my recordings and settings. How long will it take to copy the MFS Media Partitions?

Thanks much!!

Bill Beattie


----------



## unitron

tuxedo125 said:


> Rich I have a failing 1.5 GB Seagate ST31500541AS drive which I upgraded to an HD (03/2010). TIVO tech tells me the drive is failing..... it freezes up sometimes during a recorded show. I received an identical drive from Segate under warranty exchange.
> I want to copy with MFScopy the old drive to the new. The old drive is hooked to my PC (Vista Business 32) using a SATA adapter using USB. The new is directly to my MB. WinMFS is currently performing the copy...... slowly given MFS Media Partitions. Will this work?
> 
> What about the step 18 message
> 
> 18. Is there anything special I need to do for drives larger than 1TB?
> 
> You must start with an original (non-expanded) TiVo image; images from upgraded TiVos will not work. You must also use WinMFS to prepare drives larger than 1TB. Older tools such as MFSLive and InstantCake do not support >1TB capacities.
> 
> Under the latest version of WinMFS (v9.3f), the following message is displayed when you attempt to use a drive larger than 1TB:
> 
> Do I need to use my original 160GB drive? I would lose all my recordings and settings. How long will it take to copy the MFS Media Partitions?
> 
> Thanks much!!
> 
> Bill Beattie


I don't know if rich is still lurking or not, he "retired", sort of, the other day from this site.

If you're going from drive to nearly identical drive (same LBA number, or larger, on second drive), you can just boot off of the MFS Live cd and use dd or dd_rescue to do a byte for byte copy. This will let you temporarily disconnect your Windows drive, both for safety and to free up its SATA port temporarily.

dd-rescue will let you run the -v option so that you can see what's going on while it's copying.

dd is a good way to get in trouble.


----------



## Soapm

lpwcomp said:


> So basically, WinMFS can't do what it said it can't do.


But I confirmed it


----------



## toups

richsadams said:


> With respect to the 1TB drives, the difference is nominal, about $10 now and at times it's less than that.
> 
> The only real advantage of the EURS over the EARS in a TiVo application is that the EURS already has the AAM set to the quietest level (128). You should be able to adjust the AAM on the EARS using HDDScan which is pretty easy...just an added step.
> 
> *I say "should" because there are recent reports, specifically about the WD GP 2TB drives that indicate that you can no longer adjust the AAM (w/HDDscan).*
> 
> All of that being said, the EARS drives (and in fact all of WD's GP drives) are very quiet out of the box and many folks never adjust the AAM. If the TiVo were in a bedroom or other situation where silence is golden, I guess I'd go for the A/V series like the EURS. Otherwise it's your call of course.


Emphasis added above for this discussion.

I recently upgraded an HD XL to a WD20EARS. HDDScan did not appear to allow me to adjust the AAM. Either I am doing something wrong or something has changed (per above highlighted) text.

I used the WDIDLE3 /D option. QUESTION: the "how to" at the beginning of the thread suggests /D in one spot and /S300 (i.e., only 300 seconds of pause) in another. Is there any reason why one would be better than another? Doesn't the unit even in standby without an active recording still do a live buffer? If so, then it will never go into park mode except on a boot cycle.


----------



## unitron

toups said:


> Emphasis added above for this discussion.
> 
> I recently upgraded an HD XL to a WD20EARS. HDDScan did not appear to allow me to adjust the AAM. Either I am doing something wrong or something has changed (per above highlighted) text.
> 
> I used the WDIDLE3 /D option. QUESTION: the "how to" at the beginning of the thread suggests /D in one spot and /S300 (i.e., only 300 seconds of pause) in another. Is there any reason why one would be better than another? Doesn't the unit even in standby without an active recording still do a live buffer? If so, then it will never go into park mode except on a boot cycle.


If the "how many seconds of inactivity does the drive wait before parking the heads" setting is for enough seconds (300 equals 5 minutes), it amounts to pretty much the same thing as disabled, except theoretically the drive wouldn't waste any resources counting those seconds, so the one you use, disabled or whole bunch of seconds, is whichever one it'll let you use.

I think some of the drives won't let you actually disable, but will let you set the number plenty high.


----------



## toups

unitron said:


> If the "how many seconds of inactivity does the drive wait before parking the heads" setting is for enough seconds (300 equals 5 minutes), it amounts to pretty much the same thing as disabled, except theoretically the drive wouldn't waste any resources counting those seconds, so the one you use, disabled or whole bunch of seconds, is whichever one it'll let you use.
> 
> I think some of the drives won't let you actually disable, but will let you set the number plenty high.


Actually, I think /D on this drive sets it for something like 600 minutes and doesn't actually disable it.


----------



## lillevig

TheLongshot said:


> So, your solution is to hook up an ATX power supply (not exactly a lot of room where my Tivo is) to the hard drive, and leave it that way for a few months to see if MAYBE it will solve my problem?
> 
> Seems...Impractical. Particularly when I don't have an ATX power supply handy that isn't being used in a computer.


Just for the record, you can get a USB to universal hard drive adapter on eBay for less than $10, shipped from the US. It includes a standalone power source for your IDE or SATA drive. Always good to have one (or more) of these adpaters on hand in any case.


----------



## rick430

anyone expecting any new updates today or tomorrow.


----------



## V7Goose

lillevig said:


> Just for the record, you can get a USB to universal hard drive adapter on eBay for less than $10, shipped from the US. It includes a standalone power source for your IDE or SATA drive. Always good to have one (or more) of these adpaters on hand in any case.


$6.55 here - power any drive.
http://www.amazon.com/USB-2-0-SATA-..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0MF55Z3NJXNS7TCXC7TB

Not only does it come with an external drive power supply (for both 110 and 220), you get a "GERTIFIED" USB 2.0 adaptor cable to connect BOTH IDE and SATA drives to a computer.

Seems like an unfreakinbelievable deal. I bought one a few weeks ago just because it looked like such a good deal I could not afford to NOT have one just sitting around on the shelf gathering dust!:up:


----------



## mattack

Last night, my TivoHD started rebooting *continuously*. It boots all the way until it JUST gets 'all the way booted', and reboots. I never saw the intro movie even start to play. If I hit the Tivo button at JUST the right moment, I can see the menus draw, but it seems to always reboot after a couple of seconds right after the boot has finished. (It has been flaky/rebooting for quite a while, even with the previous drive, which is why I thought I was having hardware probs other than the drive..) I put the orig drive back in, and it *seems* to be working.. (EXCEPT even after multiple connects, it *thinks* program info is going to run out. It successfully has loaded, and I can see programs in the LIVE guide only.. but any attempt to 'find programs' tells me it has run out of guide data.) 

Anyway, it was a 2 TB Hitachi drive (I know it didn't actually use all the space). Anyway, at the moment, my questions are about saving the recordings. I suspect any new drive I get (Best Buy has a 2 TB Barracuda for $75, and I'm going to Fry's anyway too), if I just copy everything over with jmfs, it will reboot in exactly the same way.

Is there some way I can copy over the OS partitions from my known-good (or good enough!) orig Tivo HD drive and the programming partitions from the old drive.. to get the programming back.. or heck, even get it stable enough to boot and then I can start copying stuff off via tivotogo.

Thanks.. I'm going to get a drive now.


----------



## unitron

mattack said:


> Last night, my TivoHD started rebooting *continuously*. It boots all the way until it JUST gets 'all the way booted', and reboots. I don't think I ever saw the intro movie play. If I hit the Tivo button at JUST the right moment, I can see the menus draw, but it seems to always reboot after a couple of seconds right after the boot has finished. (It has been flaky/rebooting for quite a while, even with the previous drive, which is why I thought I was having hardware probs other than the drive..) I put the orig drive back in, and it *seems* to be working.. (EXCEPT even after multiple connects, it *thinks* program info is going to run out. It successfully has loaded, and I can see programs in the LIVE guide only.. but any attempt to 'find programs' tells me it has run out of guide data.)
> 
> Anyway, it was a 2 TB Hitachi drive (I know it didn't actually use all the space). Anyway, at the moment, my questions are about saving the recordings. I suspect any new drive I get (Best Buy has a 2 TB Barracuda for $75, and I'm going to Fry's anyway too), if I just copy everything over with jmfs, it will reboot in exactly the same way.
> 
> Is there some way I can copy over the OS partitions from my known-good (or good enough!) orig Tivo HD drive and the programming partitions from the old drive.. to get the programming back.. or heck, even get it stable enough to boot and then I can start copying stuff off via tivotogo.
> 
> Thanks.. I'm going to get a drive now.


Grab that Seagate, let me know if it has 512 Byte sectors or the new "advanced format" 4K sectors that mean you have to do some voodoo to use it with XP, and then use dd_rescue on the MFS Live cd to copy the DeathStar to the Seagate.

If you have to, you can use the -b option to set the "how much at a time" to only 512 bytes, and the -B option to set the fallback "how much" to only 1 sector, and improve the odds of getting a good copy, although it will take forever, maybe longer.

Before you start, make sure the number of LBAs on the Seagate is at least as big as the number on the Hitachi.

And seriously, I need to know the actual model number of the drive, not the model number on the box, of that Best Buy Seagate, and whether there's anything on the drive label or in the included stuff that mentions advanced format or doing something special if using XP instead of Vista or Windows 7, and I need to know before BB opens here tomorrow. Thanks!

After you do that, you can use dd_rescue to copy Partition 2 to Partition 2, 3 to 3, 4 to 4, 5 to 5, 6 to 6, and 9 to 9. It might work. I did it successfully on a Series 2 about 3 or 4 days ago.


----------



## mattack

unitron said:


> Grab that Seagate, let me know if it has 512 Byte sectors or the new "advanced format" 4K sectors that mean you have to do some voodoo to use it with XP, and then use dd_rescue on the MFS Live cd to copy the DeathStar to the Seagate.
> 
> If you have to, you can use the -b option to set the "how much at a time" to only 512 bytes, and the -B option to set the fallback "how much" to only 1 sector, and improve the odds of getting a good copy, although it will take forever, maybe longer.
> ....
> After you do that, you can use dd_rescue to copy Partition 2 to Partition 2, 3 to 3, 4 to 4, 5 to 5, 6 to 6, and 9 to 9. It might work. I did it successfully on a Series 2 about 3 or 4 days ago.


Best Buy was out of the drive (same day the ad came out!). Fry's didn't seem to have that one at all (I orig went to Fry's, was going to price match if I found it there first).

I think I'm going to 'suffer' with the orig size drive for a few days at least. I remember reading that drive prices have gone up -- wow, they have. (I forget if it's the tsunami or floods or what.)

But anyway -- would using dd_rescue be better than doing the 'normal' upgrade with jmfs? I I think that worked the last time. The current "bad" drive is only from April! What I think I ended up doing was copying a semi-bad filesystem to another drive, that kept getting worse until it finally rebooted continuously.

So I'm not sure if using dd_rescue will get it into any better of a state. That's why I thought MAYBE copying just the shows, but the OS off of a different drive, would be more likely to save my shows. (BTW, I did look at "the other forum" but haven't quite answered my question from the info there yet, whether it's possible to rescue my shows individually to a drive that will go into the same TiVo... that would be a backup solution to *this* one.)


----------



## unitron

mattack said:


> Best Buy was out of the drive (same day the ad came out!). Fry's didn't seem to have that one at all (I orig went to Fry's, was going to price match if I found it there first).
> 
> I think I'm going to 'suffer' with the orig size drive for a few days at least. I remember reading that drive prices have gone up -- wow, they have. (I forget if it's the tsunami or floods or what.)
> 
> But anyway -- would using dd_rescue be better than doing the 'normal' upgrade with jmfs? I I think that worked the last time. The current "bad" drive is only from April! What I think I ended up doing was copying a semi-bad filesystem to another drive, that kept getting worse until it finally rebooted continuously.
> 
> So I'm not sure if using dd_rescue will get it into any better of a state. That's why I thought MAYBE copying just the shows, but the OS off of a different drive, would be more likely to save my shows. (BTW, I did look at "the other forum" but haven't quite answered my question from the info there yet, whether it's possible to rescue my shows individually to a drive that will go into the same TiVo... that would be a backup solution to *this* one.)


Well, you can have the recordings on the Hitachi (maybe) or you can have whatever you record on the re-installed original drive, but unless you can use TiVo Desktop to transfer stuff off of the re-installed original (i.e., no anti-copy bit set), I don't know of a way to get both on the same drive.

I would suggest if you can get a 2TB with at least as many LBA as the Hitachi, dd_rescue over to it (shouldn't take more than 24 to 48 hours if you set -b and -B low like I mentioned), and then, as I indicated, take the good original drive and dd (with dd_rescue) partitions 2,3,4,5, 6, 7, and 9 from the original drive to the new 2TB drive. That should give you a working drive with the recordings from the Hitachi on it.

You should use pdisk to make sure that "the same partitions are the same partitions" on the original drive and the Hitachi so that you overwrite the right partition with the right partition.

One other thing, I think the new 2TB copy of the old 2TB drive will still have its bootpage even after copying over the non-MFS partitions from the original drive, so use WinMFS to flip the boot partitions twice to get it re-written without being flipped.

What you do is use mfsinfo in WinMFS to find out if you're set to boot from 3 and 4 or from 6 and 7.

fixboot option 1 sets it for 3 and 4, no matter where it was, and option 2 sets it for 6 and 7.

Come to think of it, do WinMFS mfsinfo on the Hitachi to see which partiton set it's set to boot from and use the correct fixboot option to flip it once and then try it again in the TiVo.

You can try getting that Seagate at the same price from BestBuy.com


----------



## mattack

But you didn't quite answer my question -- why is dd_rescue different than doing a "normal" drive "upgrade"? (really side-grade, since the drive will be approx the same size)

Basically, why would using dd_rescue avoid the crash on boot, if a "regular" upgrade wouldn't? That's all I'm trying to confirm. I'll probably try both, if the first faster one fails.

and would using the kickstart 57 fix anything?


----------



## mattack

Oh, ok, I guess you did answer the question.. sorry, when you said:
After you do that, you can use dd_rescue to copy Partition 2 to Partition 2, 3 to 3, 4 to 4, 5 to 5, 6 to 6, and 9 to 9. 
it sounded to me like this was just a "manual" way to copy the entire drive.

MFS-live, this is the linux one, right? I don't have/do Windows (though possibly could if it helps save my Tivo drive).


----------



## unitron

mattack said:


> Oh, ok, I guess you did answer the question.. sorry, when you said:
> After you do that, you can use dd_rescue to copy Partition 2 to Partition 2, 3 to 3, 4 to 4, 5 to 5, 6 to 6, and 9 to 9.
> it sounded to me like this was just a "manual" way to copy the entire drive.
> 
> MFS-live, this is the linux one, right? I don't have/do Windows (though possibly could if it helps save my Tivo drive).


Sorry for the confusion.

dd_rescue, like the original unix utility dd and ddrescue, does a byte for byte copy, and has no idea what operating system or file system is in what it copies. If you copy a drive to a larger drive, the bigger drive now thinks it's a smaller drive because it has the partition table of the smaller drive. It just deals in the ones and zeros.

I think understanding partitions is as high level as it gets.

dd just plows ahead with the copy and provides no information whatsoever about what it's doing until it's finished.

dd_rescue will try to copy big chunks (adjustable with the -b option) and if it runs into problems reading the source will go back and try again in smaller chunks (adjustable with the -B option)

Stuff like MFS Tools (updated in MFS Live), JMFS, and WinMFS know that they're dealing with a TiVo drive, and TiVo drive structures, and if there's anything "off" about the source drive it'll throw them.

The dd based stuff pays that no mind.

What we're talking about here is Xeroxing the screwed up 2TB Hitachi, and hoping that the screwed up part is the TiVo operating system part, but that the recordings, the MFS partitions, are still okay.

This way we get the skeleton of the partition structure on the new drive, so that the partition map is right for the 2TB and each partition starts and ends where it's supposed to so that they can be overwritten by a partition of the same size.

Then we use the original smaller drive as a source for non-screwed up operating system partitions to overwrite the ones on the new 2TB drive.

If you dd a screwed up drive to another drive it'll be screwed up as well, because it's an exact copy. But after we do that, we'll try to replace the screwed up parts.

If you haven't worked with the Linux command line some, especially if you've been using Windows but didn't start out working with DOS back in the pre-Windows 95 days, or if you're a Mac guy, but never used an Apple II, all of this is likely to be unfamiliar territory.

What kind of hardware do you have on hand with which to do your TiVo wrangling?

I get the feeling I may have to walk you through this step by step so I need to know as much as I can beforehand what we're dealing with.

Have you run the manufacturer's diagnostics on that Hitachi to see if it's physically okay or not, to see if you have a bad drive or a good drive with damaged TiVo software?

The MFS Live cd iso (or a zip of the iso), from which you can burn a bootable cd, as well as WinMFS, which runs in Windows XP or newer, can be found for download at mfslive.org

There's also stuff there about how each program works that you should read a time or three.


----------



## lex3001

My TiVo HD has been acting funny recently. And by funny I mean NOT funny at all -- it has stopped and rebooted on the same spot in a couple of recordings which I finally just deleted, and one day it had some strange behaviour like stuttering/stopping during live TV and then rebooted. I am worried the hard drive is failing. I have a 1.5TB drive in there now, so my plan of attack is to get another 1.5TB drive and do a very low-level drive clone using something like dd. (I have run the TiVo boot file system repair and that did not seem to help.) Will that work (assuming I can read the old drive)?

And secondly... what is the least expensive compatible drive I can get right now from, say, newegg.com? I was thinking maybe one of these (and FAQ #14 does not scare me in the least bit):

- $130 Seagate Barracuda Green ST1500DL003 1.5TB 5900 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
- $140 Western Digital Caviar Green WD15EARS 1.5TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5"

Any other sources for a good deal on a 1.5TB+ compatible drive?


----------



## quikah

lex3001 said:


> And secondly... what is the least expensive compatible drive I can get right now from, say, newegg.com? I was thinking maybe one of these (and FAQ #14 does not scare me in the least bit):
> 
> - $130 Seagate Barracuda Green ST1500DL003 1.5TB 5900 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
> - $140 Western Digital Caviar Green WD15EARS 1.5TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5"
> 
> Any other sources for a good deal on a 1.5TB+ compatible drive?


Wow, hard drive prices are completely nuts now. Believe it or not Office Depot of all places has the WD15EARS listed for $81.99 + shipping. You need to really shop around now. I have found Frys.com to have some of the best prices for hard drives, but most are store pickup only, so you are SOL if you don't have one nearby (I bought a WD10EURS for $59.99 Sunday).


----------



## ThAbtO

I recently got a WD20EARS for $70 from amazon.com and a few days later, it went up to $150.


----------



## lex3001

So does that mean EARS and EURS models are compatible?



quikah said:


> Wow, hard drive prices are completely nuts now. Believe it or not Office Depot of all places has the WD15EARS listed for $81.99 + shipping. You need to really shop around now. I have found Frys.com to have some of the best prices for hard drives, but most are store pickup only, so you are SOL if you don't have one nearby (I bought a WD10EURS for $59.99 Sunday).


----------



## pcbrew

quikah said:


> Wow, hard drive prices are completely nuts now. Believe it or not Office Depot of all places has the WD15EARS listed for $81.99 + shipping. You need to really shop around now. I have found Frys.com to have some of the best prices for hard drives, but most are store pickup only, so you are SOL if you don't have one nearby (I bought a WD10EURS for $59.99 Sunday).


I heard it's due to the flooding in Thailand.


----------



## Stuxnet

I was simply blown away when I saw this chart for the WD20EARS. And I bought my second one for $75.


----------



## ThAbtO

Stuxnet said:


> I was simply blown away when I saw this chart for the WD20EARS. And I bought my second one for $75.


Its funny that when I looked on my amazon.com receipt, it said Oct 11. The lowest price, $69.99


----------



## unitron

Stuxnet said:


> I was simply blown away when I saw this chart for the WD20EARS. And I bought my second one for $75.


That's why I'm grabbing a couple of those 2TB Seagates on sale for $75 this week at BestBuy (they were out of stock this afternoon, but when I went to order online early this evening found out they got more in so I can pick them up tomorrow instead of waiting for shipping), and hoping that what I've read online is true about them being 512 Byte sectors and not 4K, i.e., not "advanced format".

Although I'd a lot rather be getting WD20EA*D*S'es for $75, based on the lack of trouble, heat, and noise I've had with the 4 I've gotten so far.


----------



## mattack

unitron said:


> If you haven't worked with the Linux command line some, especially if you've been using Windows but didn't start out working with DOS back in the


Umm, I said I don't do Windows.

I use alpine as my mail program, does that give you a hint? (I'm not trying to be snotty.)

I know UNIX, or at least BSD-ish versions. I have done Tivo upgrades in the past, but used jmfs (semi-friendly front end) the most recent time.

I just have never done this sort of "try to merge two drives into one".

Even though I know it's a 2 TB drive, I guess I should hook it up and figure out how much is used? Maybe I can actually copy to a 1.5 TB drive (due to the drive cost issue now)


----------



## unitron

mattack said:


> Umm, I said I don't do Windows.
> 
> I use alpine as my mail program, does that give you a hint? (I'm not trying to be snotty.)
> 
> I know UNIX, or at least BSD-ish versions. I have done Tivo upgrades in the past, but used jmfs (semi-friendly front end) the most recent time.
> 
> I just have never done this sort of "try to merge two drives into one".
> 
> Even though I know it's a 2 TB drive, I guess I should hook it up and figure out how much is used? Maybe I can actually copy to a 1.5 TB drive (due to the drive cost issue now)


I remember reading about a unix based program called Pine. Isn't Alpine a defunct brand of mentholated cigarettes?

I write not just for the person to whom I'm responding but future searchers as well, having learned a lot of what I know about TiVos by having been one. ( a searcher, that is, not a TiVo)

Also, when 2 or more people post with similar problems at the same time, and I'm trying to help all of them, sometimes I loose track of the exact individual circumstances of each, and the problems and answers sort of run together.

If you dd (or dd_rescue) a 2TB drive to a 1.5, assuming that you've got half a TB of unused space at the end of that 2TB (which will show up as an Apple_Free_Partition when you run pdisk -l), you'll have the 2TB's partition table on it, and will probably have to figure out how to re-write it so that the drive reports itself as a 1.5

As I mentioned above, your local Best Buy might have some more of those 2TB $75 Seagates in stock by now, look up the drive on bestbuy.com and check on in-store pickup for your zip code. If they've got it, go ahead and pay for it online and pick it up tomorrow, I doubt you'll find anything else that size that cheap for quite a while with WD's Thailand drive plant underwater and suppliers to other drive makers underwater as well.

Once you've rescued your recordings you can run the manufacturer's diagnostics on the Hitachi, and if it turns out the drive is physically okay you can use it on a computer to store whatever TiVo recordings don't have the anti-copy bit set.

The MFS Live cd has a utility, I think it's called bootpage, that has one option that'll let you change the setting to use partion 3 to partition 6, and another that'll let you change the setting to use partition 4 to partition 7. In other words, two steps instead of the one that WinMFS fixboot does it in.

It also has options to let you see if it's currently set to use 3 and 4, or to use 6 and 7.

You should try changing the current Hitachi boot set from which ever it is to the alternate, and see how that works out.


----------



## mattack

I checked, one of the somewhat local Best Buys supposedly has them in stock. I'll probably check again in a few days (not going to go tonight).

tivos can't use the whole 2 TB via normal means. IIRC, it's ~1.26 TB used. That's why I was guessing I could copy to a 1.5 TB drive.

alpine is "basically" pine 5.0 http://www.washington.edu/alpine/
supports UTF8, etc.


----------



## quikah

lex3001 said:


> So does that mean EARS and EURS models are compatible?


They are. AFAIK the EURS are EARS drives with a different firmware designed for video streaming, so theoretically they would be better to use than EARS, but I doubt you would be able to see any difference. The spec sheet shows the EURS to be 1 or 2 decibel quieter, but you can adjust the AAM on the EARS to be just as quiet I believe.

The EURS supports some extra commands which allows it to drop sectors it cannot read to ensure a continuous stream. I have no idea if TiVo supports this or not. The EURS I bought had the Intellipark issue, so I had to do the wdidle fix.


----------



## unitron

mattack said:


> I checked, one of the somewhat local Best Buys supposedly has them in stock. I'll probably check again in a few days (not going to go tonight).
> 
> tivos can't use the whole 2 TB via normal means. IIRC, it's ~1.26 TB used. That's why I was guessing I could copy to a 1.5 TB drive.
> 
> alpine is "basically" pine 5.0 http://www.washington.edu/alpine/
> supports UTF8, etc.


So have we established that you have an "IBM compatible" PC running a non-Microsoft OS?

If so, burn yourself a copy of MFS Live and boot from it.

Run pdisk -l and see if you've got an Apple_Free_Partition at least 0.5TB big at the end of that Hitachi.

An Apple_Free_Partition is what the Apple Partition Map calls non-partitioned space. Must be a "think different" thing.

If so, you might be able to use the backup and restore commands to do a full copy of that Hitachi to a 1.5TB drive.

Otherwise, you could use dd_rescue to do it, if you can then repair what will be an incorrect partition table on the copy.

If you use dd_rescue, use the -v option (verbose) to be able to see what's going on during the process.

You still need to try booting that Hitachi from the alternate partitions, and you still need to run Hitachi's own diagnostics on it.


----------



## spamjam

quikah said:


> They are. AFAIK the EURS are EARS drives with a different firmware designed for video streaming, so theoretically they would be better to use than EARS, but I doubt you would be able to see any difference. The spec sheet shows the EURS to be 1 or 2 decibel quieter, but you can adjust the AAM on the EARS to be just as quiet I believe.
> 
> The EURS supports some extra commands which allows it to drop sectors it cannot read to ensure a continuous stream. I have no idea if TiVo supports this or not. The EURS I bought had the Intellipark issue, so I had to do the wdidle fix.


FWIW, I'm very happy with the WD20EURS that has been in my HD since June. Have had no problems; did have to use wdidle.


----------



## grantsa4

spamjam said:


> FWIW, I'm very happy with the WD20EURS that has been in my HD since June. Have had no problems; did have to use wdidle.


Spamjam, do you only get the 1.26GB from that 2TB or do you get to use the full TB in your HD?


----------



## dwit

grantsa4 said:


> Spamjam, do you only get the 1.26GB from that 2TB or do you get to use the full TB in your HD?


If you use the *JMFS* program/procedure/tutorial for Tivo HD(Ugrade Center forum), the full capacity of the 2 TB drive will be utilized and the Tivo will function correctly.

 Tivo HD JMFS Upgrade thread

If you use the WinMfs program/procedure in this thread to upgrade to a 2 TB hard drive, because of the way winmfs formats the drive, the full capacity may be realized, but the Tivo will eventually begin to function *incorrectly.* See from post# 8201


----------



## grantsa4

Thank you


----------



## lrhorer

unitron said:


> I remember reading about a unix based program called Pine. Isn't Alpine a defunct brand of mentholated cigarettes?


Yes, pine is a *nix mail reader. Alpine may very well be a derivative, I don't know. I've only ever used pine.

Edit: I looked it up. Alpine is indeed a re-write of pine.



unitron said:


> I write not just for the person to whom I'm responding but future searchers as well, having learned a lot of what I know about TiVos by having been one. ( a searcher, that is, not a TiVo)


Are you sure about that? In a past life, I was a traffic light. 



unitron said:


> If you dd (or dd_rescue) a 2TB drive to a 1.5, assuming that you've got half a TB of unused space at the end of that 2TB (which will show up as an Apple_Free_Partition when you run pdisk -l), you'll have the 2TB's partition table on it, and will probably have to figure out how to re-write it so that the drive reports itself as a 1.5


I'm not entirely sure that is true. It's been a while, so the details are a bit fuzzy, but I seem to recall the free space is calculated by pdisk, not actually written to the partition map. I could be wrong about that, but if so, the simple fix is to use pdisk to create the map on the new drive and then dd the partitions over to the new drive, rather than using dd to copy the entire drive. There is an added advantage to this approach in that one may be able to increase the size of some of the partitions beyond the TiVo default. I used this approach on all three of my TiVos to increase the size of the running partitions and allow me to put programs and data in the (formerly) unused partitions:



Code:


HD_Theater:/# pdisk -l /dev/hda

stat: mode = 060660, type=Block
size = 0, blocks = 0
HDIO_GETGEO: heads=255, sectors=63, cylinders=46593, start=0,  total=748516545
Partition map (with 512 byte blocks) on '/dev/hda'
 #:                type name                              length   base       ( size )
 1: Apple_partition_map Apple                                 63 @ 1          (  31.5K)
 2:                Ext2 Hack 1                            524288 @ 64         ( 256.0M)
 3:               Image Kernel 1                            4096 @ 524352     (   2.0M)
 4:                Ext2 Root 1                            524288 @ 528448     ( 256.0M)
 5:                Ext2 Hack 2                            524288 @ 1052736    ( 256.0M)
 6:               Image Kernel 2                            4096 @ 1577024    (   2.0M)
 7:                Ext2 Root 2                            524288 @ 1581120    ( 256.0M)
 8:                Swap Linux swap                        262144 @ 2105408    ( 128.0M)
 9:                Ext2 /var                              524288 @ 2367552    ( 256.0M)
10:                 MFS MFS application region            589824 @ 2891840    ( 288.0M)
11:                 MFS MFS media region               216747008 @ 3481664    ( 103.3G)
12:                 MFS Second MFS application region     589824 @ 220228672  ( 288.0M)
13:                 MFS Second MFS media region        268617728 @ 220818496  ( 128.0G)
14:                 MFS New MFS Application                 1024 @ 489436224  ( 512.0K)
15:                 MFS New MFS Media                 1465647104 @ 489437248  ( 698.8G)
16:          Apple_Free Extra                         1951944816 @ 1955084352 ( 930.7G)




unitron said:


> The MFS Live cd has a utility, I think it's called bootpage


Yes. There are also backports of bootpage out there for several platforms. I have a copy of bootpage on all my Linux workstations so I can work on a TiVo drive, if need be. Ditto pdisk and tivopart (which, among other things, allows an ordinary Linux system to mount the formatted TiVo partitions).



unitron said:


> that has one option that'll let you change the setting to use partion 3 to partition 6, and another that'll let you change the setting to use partition 4 to partition 7. In other words, two steps instead of the one that WinMFS fixboot does it in.


Although not usual, it is perfectly valid to boot from /dev/hda3 with the root on /dev/hda7 or boot from /dev/hda6 with the root on /dev/hda4, so while one would ordinarily swap both, one needn't necessarily do so, and there can be good reasons for not doing so.



unitron said:


> It also has options to let you see if it's currently set to use 3 and 4, or to use 6 and 7.
> 
> You should try changing the current Hitachi boot set from which ever it is to the alternate, and see how that works out.


And this may be one of them. Changing only one of the partitions can help pinpoint which one is bad.


----------



## lrhorer

unitron said:


> So have we established that you have an "IBM compatible" PC running a non-Microsoft OS?
> 
> If so, burn yourself a copy of MFS Live and boot from it.


I suggest not. From his responses above, it sounds like he is running BSD, or maybe a Mac. Rather than run a Live CD Distro, I would recommend he simply load pdisk, bootpage, and tivopart on his active system. Indeed, he may already have pdisk on his system, and he might not need tivopart.


----------



## lrhorer

mattack said:


> Even though I know it's a 2 TB drive, I guess I should hook it up and figure out how much is used? Maybe I can actually copy to a 1.5 TB drive (due to the drive cost issue now)


Using pdisk will tell you right off how much free space there is on the drive. Subtract that from the total space, and you know how much is used. If the used space on the original drive is more than 1.5T, then you won't be able to copy directly to the 1.5T drive, and you will have to lose all your recordings. I say, "Lose": of course they will still be on the original drive, but you won't be able to simply copy them to the new drive. Is that an x86 based PC you have? What OS and distro are you running?


----------



## duh FooL

Soapm said:


> I thought I would report I was able to copy and expand my factory TivoHD drive to 2TB using only Winmfs. I think the trick was shutting down and removing the factory drive after copy. I then booted back up and expanded the 2TB in winmfs. I got an error saying I was creating a partition larger than 1TB and I picked yes and presto. I had a 2TB TivoHD drive. Supersized...


Are you stating that you were able to use all 2TB with the TivoHD?
If so, I am willing to try to get this to work on the rest of my Tivo HDs and series3.

All the posts I've encountered claim that the limit is 1.1TB + the original drive size and if a larger drive is used, the Tivo will only recognize the 1.1TB+original size.
Even the hard drive upgrade FAQ here (updated last in Aug/2010 I believe) doesn't mention that it is possible to use 2TB on a single internal drive.

Not even the latest WinMFS mentions the increase in the maximum usable space, and the latest update was in 2009.

Thanks.


----------



## L David Matheny

duh FooL said:


> Are you stating that you were able to use all 2TB with the TivoHD?
> If so, I am willing to try to get this to work on the rest of my Tivo HDs and series3.
> 
> All the posts I've encountered claim that the limit is 1.1TB + the original drive size and if a larger drive is used, the Tivo will only recognize the 1.1TB+original size.
> Even the hard drive upgrade FAQ here (updated last in Aug/2010 I believe) doesn't mention that it is possible to use 2TB on a single internal drive.
> 
> Not even the latest WinMFS mentions the increase in the maximum usable space, and the latest update was in 2009.
> 
> Thanks.


You need to read this thread: Tivo HD Upgrade Instructions - using JMFS.


----------



## steve614

NOTE: The JMFS software does not work on the OLED S3 Tivos. (AFAIK)


----------



## dlfl

steve614 said:


> NOTE: The JMFS software does not work on the OLED S3 Tivos. (AFAIK)


Correct, I believe. AFAIK, this post by the godfather of this thread, richsadams, is the straight poop:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8340017#post8340017


----------



## Soapm

duh FooL said:


> Are you stating that you were able to use all 2TB with the TivoHD?
> If so, I am willing to try to get this to work on the rest of my Tivo HDs and series3.
> 
> All the posts I've encountered claim that the limit is 1.1TB + the original drive size and if a larger drive is used, the Tivo will only recognize the 1.1TB+original size.
> Even the hard drive upgrade FAQ here (updated last in Aug/2010 I believe) doesn't mention that it is possible to use 2TB on a single internal drive.
> 
> Not even the latest WinMFS mentions the increase in the maximum usable space, and the latest update was in 2009.
> 
> Thanks.


Keep reading until you get to this post http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8760047#post8760047

The drive crapped out as it began to fill so I would caution to use WinMFS on a 2TB at your own risk. YMMV...

But to answer your questions yes, I am using a 2TB in a TivoHD thanks to lrhorer. I couldn't have done it without him... Again, YMMV....


----------



## Soapm

lrhorer said:


> Code:
> 
> 
> HD_Theater:/# pdisk -l /dev/hda
> 
> stat: mode = 060660, type=Block
> size = 0, blocks = 0
> HDIO_GETGEO: heads=255, sectors=63, cylinders=46593, start=0,  total=748516545
> Partition map (with 512 byte blocks) on '/dev/hda'
> #:                type name                              length   base       ( size )
> 1: Apple_partition_map Apple                                 63 @ 1          (  31.5K)
> 2:                Ext2 Hack 1                            524288 @ 64         ( 256.0M)
> 3:               Image Kernel 1                            4096 @ 524352     (   2.0M)
> 4:                Ext2 Root 1                            524288 @ 528448     ( 256.0M)
> 5:                Ext2 Hack 2                            524288 @ 1052736    ( 256.0M)
> 6:               Image Kernel 2                            4096 @ 1577024    (   2.0M)
> 7:                Ext2 Root 2                            524288 @ 1581120    ( 256.0M)
> [B] 8:                Swap Linux swap                        262144 @ 2105408    ( 128.0M)[/B]
> 9:                Ext2 /var                              524288 @ 2367552    ( 256.0M)
> 10:                 MFS MFS application region            589824 @ 2891840    ( 288.0M)
> 11:                 MFS MFS media region               216747008 @ 3481664    ( 103.3G)
> 12:                 MFS Second MFS application region     589824 @ 220228672  ( 288.0M)
> 13:                 MFS Second MFS media region        268617728 @ 220818496  ( 128.0G)
> 14:                 MFS New MFS Application                 1024 @ 489436224  ( 512.0K)
> 15:                 MFS New MFS Media                 1465647104 @ 489437248  ( 698.8G)
> 16:          Apple_Free Extra                         1951944816 @ 1955084352 ( 930.7G)
> 
> .


Just curious, any reason you stuck with a 128M Swap? I see people increasing their swap size, any benefit in doing that?


----------



## pghkirwan

SnakeEyes said:


> FYI... just restored a virgin TiVo HD image to my OEM drive using Parallels 6 on my Intel Mac Mini with the help of a Thermaltake Black Widow Dock. I'm going through Guided Setup now so apparently it can be done


I'm about to start the upgrade process using an iMac. Are you using the iMac using Parallels and XP or Windows 7?

I'm running Parallels 6 & Windows 7.

Thanks,

Don


----------



## unitron

Soapm said:


> Just curious, any reason you stuck with a 128M Swap? I see people increasing their swap size, any benefit in doing that?


I'm going to make a wild guess that the "jmfs has no option to change swap partition size" restriction may have had a lot to do with it.


----------



## Soapm

unitron said:


> I'm going to make a wild guess that the "jmfs has no option to change swap partition size" restriction may have had a lot to do with it.


Looks like he manually resized his partitions??? At least I don't have any called hack and he appears to be using the apple free partition...


----------



## unitron

Soapm said:


> Looks like he manually resized his partitions??? At least I don't have any called hack and he appears to be using the apple free partition...


Judging by that map I'd say he's not using it so much as is saddled with it.

It appears that he's using a 2TB drive but the TiVo's only using about 1TB of it.


----------



## lrhorer

Soapm said:


> Just curious, any reason you stuck with a 128M Swap? I see people increasing their swap size, any benefit in doing that?


Frankly, I didn't even think about it until after I had upgraded all three drives. Silly me. At that point, I didn't want to go back and re-do everything. Usually there is no great advantage to increasing the swap size, but there are some instances where it can help prevent issues, especially during a GSOD. There are some reports that it may possibly help alleviate issues with a Tuning Adapter, as well.


----------



## lrhorer

unitron said:


> Judging by that map I'd say he's not using it so much as is saddled with it.
> 
> It appears that he's using a 2TB drive but the TiVo's only using about 1TB of it.


This drive is married to an external drive. Until I divorce that drive, I can't expand it any further, or I will lose all the recordings. At some point I expect to divorce the external drive, at which point I can make full use of this drive. Until then, it's no big deal.


----------



## lrhorer

Soapm said:


> Looks like he manually resized his partitions??? At least I don't have any called hack and he appears to be using the apple free partition...


Correct, or at least the ext2 partitions. 'Not the MFS partitions. I renamed the (formerly) unused partitions 2 and 5 and expanded them to 256M. They are both mounted in subdirectories of /var. I think I also increased all the other ext2 partitions and then copied over the content manually.


----------



## lrhorer

unitron said:


> I'm going to make a wild guess that the "jmfs has no option to change swap partition size" restriction may have had a lot to do with it.


No, this is an S3. Jmfs won't work on it. I simply forgot, that's all. I thought about going back and expanding the swap on all three TiVos after I had finished, but I decided it was just too much trouble. I guess I could go in and move the swap area to the end of the drives, increasing it to 256M or 512M...


----------



## unitron

lrhorer said:


> No, this is an S3. Jmfs won't work on it. I simply forgot, that's all. I thought about going back and expanding the swap on all three TiVos after I had finished, but I decided it was just too much trouble. I guess I could go in and move the swap area to the end of the drives, increasing it to 256M or 512M...


Can TiVo find/work with a swap partition that's not partiton 8, as long as it's named swap?


----------



## lrhorer

unitron said:


> Can TiVo find/work with a swap partition that's not partiton 8, as long as it's named swap?


It doesn't matter what the name is, and it doesn't actually matter what the number of the partition is, per se. It just has to be formatted as swap and it has to be defined in /etc/fstab. (And swapping needs to be turned on.) Of course on an unmodified TiVo, it's probably not possible to change /etc/fstab. In the Apple partition map, however, partition 8 doesn't need to be the 8th partition on the drive. That is to say its sectors do not have to fall between the end of the 7th partition and the beginning of the 9th. Partition #8 can be at the end of the drive, or the beginning of the drive, or wherever. Thus, even without modifying any of the files on the TiVo, one may simply delete the #8 partition and then add it back with a starting sector somewhere else on the drive. The only rule is the area had better not overlap any other area defined as a partition. Once the new area is mapped, it can be formatted as swap.


----------



## pghkirwan

My experience began about 10 days or so ago - pixelizing on the screen, random re-boots, all kinds of mysterious things.

I have (had) an S3 that I've had for a few years (a 648250 model) with a 1TB My Book AV extension drive that began giving us some problems.

From another thread on a soon-to-be-dead S3, I read enough to determine that a capacitor wasn't behaving properly. With the advice from everybody on that thread, I was able to locate the offending capacitor, found a local TV repair shop who had the part, and, more importantly, the time to replace said capacitor (for a whopping $10, parts and labor), I was able to get the board back in my S3 only to find out that wasn't the only cause. Following the advice on that board, I ran KS57 and found the external drive was not behaving as it should.

Which brought me to this thread, fortunately. From the advice I found here, I ended up replacing both drives with an internal 1TB WD10EARS drive. Which I just finished installing, in time to record the 2 shows we watch on Friday nites at 8pm.

My wife downloaded 90% of the shows off the S3 onto our THD (the one with the original HD and a 500GB extension). So, we were able to save most of the shows we wanted to watch.

We're a Mac household - 2 iMacs and a PBP. One of the iMacs runs Windows 7 using Parallels 6. Following the guidance of the sages here, I went to MFSLive.org and downloaded WinMFS. Once I realized that, using Parallels you have to go to the menu bar /Devices and tell Parallels you're using the USB to SATA Hard Drive Adapter, WinMFS recognized the old HD and then the new HD. That part was easy and accomplished in ~20 minutes. (I kept the SPM fortunately)

Being daring and hoping that since I'm using Tivo 11.0 software, all those warnings about the WD10EARS drive and the Intellipark issues were a thing of the past - they weren't. Which led to the next round of frustration, especially since I only have an ancient Dell 4600C with IDE drives. Fortunately my son-in-law, who was working from home today, has a couple of computers with SATA drives and he was willing to help - I told him it shouldn't take long.

What I missed in the instructions is that once you download the FDOEM.iso file, you have to use the appropriate software to make it a bootable disk. Only took about 1 1/2 hours to figure that out. Soooo, I made a second trip out today and, it did only take 5 minutes to use wdidle3 and take of that Intellipark issue. (Side note - you can download wdidle3_1_05 from the WD support website at http://support.wdc.com/product/download.asp?groupid=609&sid=113. It reads that it's for a WD RE2-GP but, if you nose around in the community forums you'll find that it's also used for other drives.

So, the end result is, thanks to the advice I gathered from this community, our S3 has a brand new 1TB HD with 157 HD hour capacity.

Sorry for the long post, but I did want to thank everyone who's posted and provided valuable information on these threads.

Don


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

pghkirwan said:


> My wife downloaded 90% of the shows off the S3 onto our THD (the one with the original HD and a 500GB extension). So, we were able to save most of the shows we wanted to watch.


Don't get complacent. The 500GB extenders had a worse reliability record than the 1TB ones. It won't be long before you're replacing the disk/extender in your THD.


----------



## ccrider2

Think I might have an S3 drive issue....What do you think?

-Getting pixelation on recorded material.
-Getting pixelation on menus.
-No pixelation on live TV, that's why I'm asking here before I go shopping for a new drive....I figured it would do it all the time, since it always records. I tried rewinding a live show and immediately I get pixelation.

I tried moving all the recordings to the PC, but they all have the same issue there, so I assume they're all toast.


Any suggestions?

Thanks in Advance,


----------



## unitron

ccrider2 said:


> Think I might have an S3 drive issue....What do you think?
> 
> -Getting pixelation on recorded material.
> -Getting pixelation on menus.
> -No pixelation on live TV, that's why I'm asking here before I go shopping for a new drive....I figured it would do it all the time, since it always records. I tried rewinding a live show and immediately I get pixelation.
> 
> I tried moving all the recordings to the PC, but they all have the same issue there, so I assume they're all toast.
> 
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> Thanks in Advance,


When you say no pixelation on live TV, do you mean bypassing the TiVo altogether, as in how you'd have to watch if the TiVo were unplugged from the wall socket?


----------



## ccrider2

unitron said:


> When you say no pixelation on live TV, do you mean bypassing the TiVo altogether, as in how you'd have to watch if the TiVo were unplugged from the wall socket?


No.....Watching the actual TiVo with the buffer caught-up.


----------



## unitron

ccrider2 said:


> No.....Watching the actual TiVo with the buffer caught-up.


That comes off of the hard drive just like anything else you watch on the TiVo, so I'd expect it to have the same problems or lack thereof as anything else coming off of the hard drive.

Those recordings copied to PC, are you getting the pixelation when you play them back on the computer with Windows Media Player or whatever?

Do you record at best quality?

When you say the menus are pixelated, do you mean like TiVo Central? Where you can't see or hear any of what's tuned in or being recorded?


----------



## ccrider2

unitron said:


> That comes off of the hard drive just like anything else you watch on the TiVo, so I'd expect it to have the same problems or lack thereof as anything else coming off of the hard drive.
> 
> Those recordings copied to PC, are you getting the pixelation when you play them back on the computer with Windows Media Player or whatever?
> 
> Do you record at best quality?
> 
> When you say the menus are pixelated, do you mean like TiVo Central? Where you can't see or hear any of what's tuned in or being recorded?


Y
Y ..... I think so....Not really sure, but they look good to me.
Y

Well....I pulled the plug and rebooted, pixelation is gone for now. Hopefully something just got 'squirrelly' and won't happen again. Think I'll try to move the files to an external PC drive again.

Thanks for Responding!


----------



## unitron

ccrider2 said:


> Y
> Y ..... I think so....Not really sure, but they look good to me.
> Y
> 
> Well....I pulled the plug and rebooted, pixelation is gone for now. Hopefully something just got 'squirrelly' and won't happen again. Think I'll try to move the files to an external PC drive again.
> 
> Thanks for Responding!


Let's see, strange, inconsistent symptoms.

Open that puppy up and inspect the capacitors in the power supply.

A power supply that's not quite 100% can cause all sorts of strange symptoms, like only one of two tuners working, or a crash and reboot when you put in a cable card, or other weird stuff.

Read the wikipedia article on "capacitor plague" and then go to badcaps.net and read what they have to educate yourself on what to look for and what quality of replacement capacitors to get if necessary.

And click on my user name and search my posts for the word "capacitor" or "capacitors", I've pontificated on them rather extensively of late.


----------



## ccrider2

unitron,
Thanks for the heads-up.
:up:


----------



## jjeff

richsadams said:


> Well, after six or seven years of answering thousands of questions and spending untold hours giving guidance to others on this and a good half-dozen other threads that AFAIK has been correct more often than not...hey, I'm ready to retire and you young bucks take over!
> 
> So step up and have fun all!


Sad to see you leave rich Your help in the past has helped unknown users. I wonder if that's what happened with bkdtv, never did get a farewell so no one really knows what happened in his case
Take care and spend time just enjoying your Tivo


----------



## unitron

jjeff said:


> Sad to see you leave rich Your help in the past has helped unknown users. I wonder if that's what happened with bkdtv, never did get a farewell so no one really knows what happened in his case
> Take care and spend time just enjoying your Tivo


He's still on the site, hanging with the Mac and iPad users, he just withdrew from the hard drive wars. A much greater loss for us than for him.


----------



## Soapm

jjeff said:


> Sad to see you leave rich Your help in the past has helped unknown users. I wonder if that's what happened with bkdtv, never did get a farewell so no one really knows what happened in his case
> Take care and spend time just enjoying your Tivo


I agree, he will enter the annuls with vets like RBaucht, DaGoon etc... and the list goes on.

YOur input will be missed...


----------



## lrhorer

unitron said:


> He's still on the site, hanging with the Mac and iPad users, he just withdrew from the hard drive wars. A much greater loss for us than for him.


You have a great flair for understatement. His contributions to this thread were invaluable.


----------



## unitron

lrhorer said:


> You have a great flair for understatement. His contributions to this thread were invaluable.


I should regret it to be thought that I undervalued his contributions.

Actually he just popped up again in the Premiere upgrade with jmfs thread.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8818939#post8818939


----------



## bareyb

richsadams said:


> Well, after six or seven years of answering thousands of questions and spending untold hours giving guidance to others on this and a good half-dozen other threads that AFAIK has been correct more often than not...hey, I'm ready to retire and you young bucks take over!
> 
> So step up and have fun all!


Wow. It's the end of an era. I can't say I blame you though. I imagine it's a pretty time consuming job. You have helped a lot of us enjoy our TiVo's a lot more than if you hadn't been around. Thanks for the time here Rich. You did a lot to help a lot of people. In the end, that's the stuff that really counts...

Yikes that sounds like a eulogy... I'll see you in the Mac thread! I hope not to have to change any HDD's for a long time. My next box is a Premiere Elite and that's already got a 2 TB.


----------



## Soapm

bareyb said:


> Yikes that sounds like a eulogy... I'll see you in the Mac thread! I hope not to have to change any HDD's for a long time. My next box is a Premiere Elite and that's already got a 2 TB.


We're hoping Tivo will break the 2TB barrier soon. 4 HD tuners need more room to breath...


----------



## bareyb

Soapm said:


> We're hoping Tivo will break the 2TB barrier soon. 4 HD tuners need more room to breath...


Don't tempt me...


----------



## unitron

bareyb said:


> Don't tempt me...


Tempt you? If you can actually do it, they'll probably bribe you.

TiVo owners, that is, not TiVo, Inc. (but at least they probably won't disappear you )


----------



## rymeister

I need undertake an internal upgrade for my TiVo HD, and was wondering if anyone could provide an updated recommendation for a 1 TB drive? I was looking at the WD Av-gp drives, but am a little intimidated by the steps to disable the intellipark feature. Are there any non-green drives that have proven to work well and are relatively quiet?


----------



## MeInDallas

If you get a AV-GP then you dont have to disable the Intellipark. Only on the regular green drives do you have to do that. The ones that are meant for DVR's you do not have to WDIDLE3 them.


----------



## Stuxnet

MeInDallas said:


> If you get a AV-GP then you dont have to disable the Intellipark. Only on the regular green drives do you have to do that. The ones that are meant for DVR's you do not have to WDIDLE3 them.


@rymeister... Thailand's flooding has messed seriously w/WD's HDD output. Their AV drives aren't easy to find unless you're an OEM... Here's one on Amazon...

http://goo.gl/7JNuA

While these are great for your TiVo don't try to reappropriate an AV HDD for PC use since error-checking isn't a priority for video... TiVo is a sort of a mixed use since the software is on the HDD... along with the captured video stream.


----------



## MeInDallas

You can get this one at Office Depot now. Not sure how long their supply will last for this price. http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/857796/Western-Digital-AV-GP-WD20EURS-2/ $101.95 for 2TB is good.


----------



## ThAbtO

MeInDallas said:


> You can get this one at Office Depot now. Not sure how long their supply will last for this price. http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/857796/Western-Digital-AV-GP-WD20EURS-2/ $101.95 for 2TB is good.


I went there to try to get a 1TB WD drive for $59.99 but the sale was cancelled and the price was $121.


----------



## MeInDallas

I just tried to get one and it came back "out of stock" once I got to the page to actually buy it with my credit card.


----------



## unitron

MeInDallas said:


> You can get this one at Office Depot now. Not sure how long their supply will last for this price. http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/857796/Western-Digital-AV-GP-WD20EURS-2/ $101.95 for 2TB is good.


If you look a little more closely you'll see that's the price per drive on a pack of 20 drives, so you'll need 20 TiVos you want to upgrade or 19 friends with a TiVo apiece.

In a situation like that I'd want to be very sure ahead of time who warranties those drives for what for how long. Sometimes there is no factory warranty on OEM drives, and that's what these might be.


----------



## unitron

rymeister said:


> I need undertake an internal upgrade for my TiVo HD, and was wondering if anyone could provide an updated recommendation for a 1 TB drive? I was looking at the WD Av-gp drives, but am a little intimidated by the steps to disable the intellipark feature. Are there any non-green drives that have proven to work well and are relatively quiet?


If you have the ability to burn a cd, a computer that will boot from that cd, and you can attach the WD drive to a SATA port on that computer, running wdidle3 to disable intellipark is more of a time-consuming annoyance than an actual challenge.

(although if your computer has a GigaByte brand motherboard, say so, so that I can advise you on how to keep it from adding a Host Protected Area to that hard drive)

As for which drive to get, the Thailand flood damage seems to have changed the answer to that question to whichever one you can find that doesn't involve selling body parts, your wife's jewelry, or your first born.

Do you have an HD (TCD652160) and are you still running the original 160GB drive?


----------



## MeInDallas

unitron said:


> If you look a little more closely you'll see that's the price per drive on a pack of 20 drives


I dunno why I didnt see that! Too much turkey I think


----------



## lrhorer

unitron said:


> As for which drive to get, the Thailand flood damage seems to have changed the answer to that question to whichever one you can find that doesn't involve selling body parts, your wife's jewelry, or your first born.


Good heavens! I would never sell my wife's jewelry. Now my wife on the other hand...

I've tried to pay people to take my firstborn. 

Nobody wants my body parts, either.


----------



## tvalleau

Hi. I've got a Tivo Premier. I see that Weaknees wants $200 for a 320 GB replacement drive.
Ummm... I can buy a new Premier unit for $80. Is there some reason I couldn't buy one; yank out the drive; throw away the other hardware and use that drive for a replacement in the other unit?
After all, that saves $120...


----------



## lrhorer

tvalleau said:


> Hi. I've got a Tivo Premier. I see that Weaknees wants $200 for a 320 GB replacement drive.
> Ummm... I can buy a new Premier unit for $80. Is there some reason I couldn't buy one; yank out the drive; throw away the other hardware and use that drive for a replacement in the other unit?
> After all, that saves $120...


Not as long as you agree to send the gutted unit to me. 

I think you've found a loophole, there, although doesn't the $80 price require a service committment? Seriously, I wouldn't throw the unit away. I would recommend keeping it for spare parts. At the very least, you could sell it on e-bay for $15 or so plus shipping.


----------



## tvalleau

lrhorer said:


> Not as long as you agree to send the gutted unit to me.
> 
> I think you've found a loophole, there, although doesn't the $80 price require a service committment? Seriously, I wouldn't throw the unit away. I would recommend keeping it for spare parts. At the very least, you could sell it on e-bay for $15 or so plus shipping.


Well, isn't the agreement attached to the unit, not its internal hard drive?

And, do you happen to know if the drives inside the Premier are SATA these days...


----------



## lrhorer

tvalleau said:


> Well, isn't the agreement attached to the unit, not its internal hard drive?


Yes, but if so, you are still required to pay it.



tvalleau said:


> And, do you happen to know if the drives inside the Premier are SATA these days...


Yes, they are. So are the drives in the S3 class machines.


----------



## tvalleau

lrhorer said:


> Yes, but if so, you are still required to pay it.


OK... now I'm confused. I have a Tivo (call it box A), with a lifetime subscription. Everything is up and running just fine. I just want an emergency replacement drive, in case something happens to the drive in Box A.

I thought if you replaced the hard drive in Box A, the lifetime subscription would not be affected. (In fact, I did that with an old Philips unit and a Weaknees drive several years back.)

Why can't I simply buy an $80 box; (box B) open it up; take out the drive; pull the drive out of Box A (the one I have with a lifetime subscription) and put the Box B drive in?

Are you saying that I'd have to have another subscription? That doesn't sound right to me...

Also, if both drives are good (drive A, my current one) and drive B (from the newly purchased unit) is there something preventing me from doing a hardware-level block-by-block copy of A to B, and then inserting B?

Sorry to be a bother, but this seems so simple.


----------



## lrhorer

tvalleau said:


> OK... now I'm confused. I have a Tivo (call it box A), with a lifetime subscription. Everything is up and running just fine. I just want an emergency replacement drive, in case something happens to the drive in Box A.
> 
> I thought if you replaced the hard drive in Box A, the lifetime subscription would not be affected. (In fact, I did that with an old Philips unit and a Weaknees drive several years back.)
> 
> Why can't I simply buy an $80 box; (box B) open it up; take out the drive; pull the drive out of Box A (the one I have with a lifetime subscription) and put the Box B drive in?


You most certainly can. You will have to do a Clear and Delete, and then run guided setup again, but otherwise it's SOP.



tvalleau said:


> Are you saying that I'd have to have another subscription? That doesn't sound right to me...


I could very easily be wrong, but I was of the impression that in order to get the $80 pricing, one had to agree to a subscription. If I am wrong, then indeed there seems little in the way of a down side to your idea. If I am right, though, then you are committed to pay a monthly fee for the unit whether you use it or not.



tvalleau said:


> Also, if both drives are good (drive A, my current one) and drive B (from the newly purchased unit) is there something preventing me from doing a hardware-level block-by-block copy of A to B, and then inserting B?


No, nothing at all. The dd utility will work just fine to do a byte-by-byte copy. If both drives are good, though, why bother?



tvalleau said:


> Sorry to be a bother, but this seems so simple.


Well, yeah, it is. The only question is whether you can get a new unit for $80 without agreeing to a service plan, or not. I did not think you could, but I could very easily be wrong. If I'm wrong, then there is no bar to your doing what you propose.


----------



## tvalleau

First, thanks for your courtesy. I thought it was pretty simple.

Yes: you can buy the box for $81 on Amazon.com. (I just did go ahead and buy a spare.) You need a subscription only if you buy it from Tivo itself.

(As to the mystery of my question about the hardware block copy [I've got a machine for that] it was simply for two reasons.
1) had you said there was something unique about the drive-vs-subscription, a block-copy would have taken care of that... and..
2) a block copy will preserve my settings etc. In fact, the unit should not know that there's even been a drive swap.

No point in doing it now, but three years or so down the road, when the current drive starts going south, I can block copy, and "pick up where I left off."

(And FWIW, when I asked the support folks on Weaknees about this, you wouldn't believe how fast they cut off the conversation! 

So shoot: I just invested $80; got a replacement drive (320) and lots of spare parts! Works for me.

Check TiVo TCD746320 on Amazon!

hth

Thanks again.


----------



## lrhorer

tvalleau said:


> First, thanks for your courtesy. I thought it was pretty simple.


OK, sure. You certainly didn't say anything that I would think would prompt a rude answer. Far be it from me to pass up such an opportunity. 



tvalleau said:


> Yes: you can buy the box for $81 on Amazon.com. (I just did go ahead and buy a spare.) You need a subscription only if you buy it from Tivo itself.


Wow. That's... wow.



tvalleau said:


> (As to the mystery of my question about the hardware block copy [I've got a machine for that] it was simply for two reasons.
> 1) had you said there was something unique about the drive-vs-subscription, a block-copy would have taken care of that... and..


'Nary a bit.



tvalleau said:


> 2) a block copy will preserve my settings etc. In fact, the unit should not know that there's even been a drive swap.


Well, actually, it does. The drive does have a unique internal serial number which it reports to the OS, and TiVo, Inc can actually tell the drive has been replaced. There have been a couple of reports of TiVo refusing to honor a warranty on a unit which has had its drive replaced, but even this seems to be unusual. Otherwise, there is no operational impact. I have 3 active TiVos of my own, and I have purchased several others in the past. Every one has had at least one drive replacement done, and some have had 3 or 4 upgrades. All three of the current Tivos have had at least one upgrade using dd_rescue.



tvalleau said:


> No point in doing it now, but three years or so down the road, when the current drive starts going south, I can block copy, and "pick up where I left off."


Well, actually, there is. Doing the copy now and putting one of the drives on the shelf will be easier than trying to save a failing drive later. That, plus the drive may not fail gracefully. It may just suddenly croak.



tvalleau said:


> (And FWIW, when I asked the support folks on Weaknees about this, you wouldn't believe how fast they cut off the conversation!


Hmm. I wonder why.



tvalleau said:


> So shoot: I just invested $80; got a replacement drive (320) and lots of spare parts! Works for me.


Yeah, I would say so.


----------



## lpwcomp

lrhorer said:


> You most certainly can. You will have to do a Clear and Delete, and then run guided setup again, but otherwise it's SOP.


Clear and Delete what? There's nothing to clear and delete. No recordings, no SPs, no settings. When you power up the box after the switch, it should be just like powering up a new TiVo for the first time.


----------



## unitron

lrhorer said:


> ...
> Well, actually, it does. The drive does have a unique internal serial number which it reports to the OS, and TiVo, Inc can actually tell the drive has been replaced. There have been a couple of reports of TiVo refusing to honor a warranty on a unit which has had its drive replaced, but even this seems to be unusual. ...


Are you sure these were cases of the drive's serial number being taken note of, or just the TiVo taking notice that the drive was larger than the original?


----------



## steve614

lpwcomp said:


> Clear and Delete what? There's nothing to clear and delete. No recordings, no SPs, no settings. When you power up the box after the switch, it should be just like powering up a new TiVo for the first time.


The hard drive is essentially paired with the TSN of the Tivo it resides in.
If you take a hard drive from one Tivo and install it in another (of the same model) with a different TSN, you have to run clear and delete before it will work properly.

It would probably work enough to get you through guided setup, but it will not record shows without doing C&D first.


----------



## lrhorer

unitron said:


> Are you sure these were cases of the drive's serial number being taken note of, or just the TiVo taking notice that the drive was larger than the original?


Well, no, not at all sure. The drive does have a unique ID, however, and the make and model are also reported (which is why and how only the WD external drives are supported.) How much notice TiVo takes of a shifting ID, I don't know.


----------



## lpwcomp

steve614 said:


> The hard drive is essentially paired with the TSN of the Tivo it resides in.
> If you take a hard drive from one Tivo and install it in another (of the same model) with a different TSN, you have to run clear and delete before it will work properly.
> 
> It would probably work enough to get you through guided setup, but it will not record shows without doing C&D first.


When the drive is from a TiVo that had been in use, clear and delete will have to be performed, but I was under the impression that this would be automatic anyway. When the drive is from a new, never used TiVo, there is nothing to clear and delete.


----------



## zabolots

I've tried searching within this thread but surprisingly I couldn't find the answer to this seemingly simple question: does the process for internal drive replacement described in this thread work with Premier units? Does WinMFS support TiVo Premiers? 

The reason I ask is that I pulled my original drive and put it and a new 1TB drive in my PC. I tried to backup my original drive and I get an error that says "Not a Tivo Drive". mfscopy displays: "Error Number: 1 Error Message: Unknown error has occurred".


----------



## dwit

zabolots said:


> I've tried searching within this thread but surprisingly I couldn't find the answer to this seemingly simple question: does the process for internal drive replacement described in this thread work with Premier units? Does WinMFS support TiVo Premiers?
> 
> The reason I ask is that I pulled my original drive and put it and a new 1TB drive in my PC. I tried to backup my original drive and I get an error that says "Not a Tivo Drive". mfscopy displays: "Error Number: 1 Error Message: Unknown error has occurred".


No. The Premiere drive is apparently "formatted"(?) differently. Use the JMFS procedure for Premiere, in the Premiere Upgrade thread, in the "Tivo Upgrade Center" forum.

Have you re-installed the original drive back into the Premiere?


----------



## crowfan

Are the compatible drives listed in the OP current? My S3 just kicked the bucket and I'm going to replace the drive (I want the largest one I can get) but I'm not sure what drive to buy. I'd like to get it from Amazon. 

Thanks!


----------



## unitron

crowfan said:


> Are the compatible drives listed in the OP current? My S3 just kicked the bucket and I'm going to replace the drive (I want the largest one I can get) but I'm not sure what drive to buy. I'd like to get it from Amazon.
> 
> Thanks!


By S3 do you mean a TCD648250?


----------



## crowfan

I'll have to check when I get home tonight, but it's a Series 3 (with the screen on the front that displays the time and the names of the shows being recorded). I bought it pretty much right after it was released. The TSN starts with 648 if that helps. Thanks.

{ETA: According to this page on Weaknees, yes, it is a TCD648250.}


----------



## unitron

ThAbtO said:


> I went there to try to get a 1TB WD drive for $59.99 but the sale was cancelled and the price was $121.


Did you go there, the actual bricks and mortar store, in person, in response to a printed ad from the newspaper, and did they tell you, not that the ad was a misprint, but that the sale had been cancelled, even though they still had that model in stock?

If so, I'd have pointed out to them that they were guilty of fraud and false advertising and contacted my state's attorney general.


----------



## unitron

crowfan said:


> Are the compatible drives listed in the OP current? My S3 just kicked the bucket and I'm going to replace the drive (I want the largest one I can get) but I'm not sure what drive to buy. I'd like to get it from Amazon.
> 
> Thanks!


Due to the recent devastating flooding in Thailand, this is, from a price and selection standpoint, the worst time in years to be buying a hard drive.

That said, tell us what models you're looking at so far.


----------



## crowfan

Oh I know. Wish my S3 didn't pick this time to get worse, but it did.  It has been acting erratically for a couple of months, and last night it got stuck in a reboot loop for an hour. Eventually it came back on. But I don't want to wait for it to die completely.

I was just randomly looking for 1 TB drives on Amazon, but I'm reading that so many drives have compatibility issues, etc., that I'm nervous to buy. Here's one I was looking at. No idea where to start really, and it doesn't look like the OP has been updated in a while so I'm not sure if those drives are current.

Thanks!


----------



## unitron

crowfan said:


> Oh I know. Wish my S3 didn't pick this time to get worse, but it did.  It has been acting erratically for a couple of months, and last night it got stuck in a reboot loop for an hour. Eventually it came back on. But I don't want to wait for it to die completely.
> 
> I was just randomly looking for 1 TB drives on Amazon, but I'm reading that so many drives have compatibility issues, etc., that I'm nervous to buy. Here's one I was looking at. No idea where to start really, and it doesn't look like the OP has been updated in a while so I'm not sure if those drives are current.
> 
> Thanks!


Before I paid that much I think I'd take a chance on the $90 1TB Hitachi CompuUSA is pushing right now

http://www.compusa.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=685727&sku=TSD-1000H6

although I got a WD20EADS from them a few months ago and wasn't very impressed with the way they boxed it for shipping.

(also I've recently had a couple of Hitachi 500GB drives out of Buffalo Linkstations go bad with no warning, so I'm not convinced that Deskstar doesn't still equal Deathstar)

Right now I'm using a couple of these Samsungs

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152185

in single tuner S2s and they've been working fine for about 3 months now, and the packing was much better. (and the price was about $50 when I bought them)

Based on that I'd consider the 5200rpm version

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152173

which is $10 cheaper and should run cooler.

If you can find a good price on a WD10EACS or WD10EARS I'd say get a copy of wdidle3 and go for it.


----------



## crowfan

Thanks. 

I've upgraded drives before and it went fine, but the whole wdidle thing makes me nervous.  I've never had to deal with that before.

Is there some feature that makes a drive compatible/not compatible?


----------



## unitron

crowfan said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I've upgraded drives before and it went fine, but the whole wdidle thing makes me nervous.  I've never had to deal with that before.


Piece o' cake.

Hook the drive straight to the motherboard (as long as it's not a GigaByte brand board), boot from the cd with wdidle3 on it, which lands you at a dos prompt, at which point you type

wdidle3 /d

and it disables intellipark or sets the "how long it waits to park the heads after noticing lack of activity on the data cable" interval to over an hour, which amounts to disabling it.

You should disconnect any other hard drives before doing this.



crowfan said:


> Is there some feature that makes a drive compatible/not compatible?


Well, there's Western Digital's Intellipark, which screws up soft reboots, which it why it needs disabling.

Otherwise, not that I know of. Apparently people are using "advanced format" drives (4096 byte sectors instead of the traditional 512 byte sectors) with S3s and S4s without problems.

Now if we were talking Series 1 TiVos, that'd be a whole different conversation. Those things are finicky.


----------



## crowfan

Thanks again.

I'm going to avoid the WD drives as I only have laptops and an iMac in the house.

I read somewhere that a drive must be at least 3gb/s for it to work. Is that true? It seems most are 6 these days anyway.


----------



## unitron

crowfan said:


> Thanks again.
> 
> I'm going to avoid the WD drives as I only have laptops and an iMac in the house.
> 
> I read somewhere that a drive must be at least 3gb/s for it to work. Is that true? It seems most are 6 these days anyway.


Glad you posted that, it reminded me of what I meant to mention earlier and forgot.

The 160GB drive that came with the HD I recently acquired is only a SATA I, i.e., a 1.5Gb/s, so I expect the 250 in your older S3 is the same.

If you get a 3Gb/s drive that'll let you jumper it down to 1.5 go ahead and do so and save the drive the trouble of trying to autonegotiate with the controller on the motherboard.

As for what I forgot:

Maybe it's not your drive.

Go read the wikipedia article on "capacitor plague" and then have a look at badcaps.net as well to acquaint yourself with how to visually spot caps in the power supply going bad.

Also look at the picture in this thread

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=479176

to see just how subtle it can be.

A flaky power supply can cause all sorts of strange symptoms.

Fortunately it's an easy repair.


----------



## DHP

I just used WinMFS to copy a failing WD drive to a new WD10EARS drive on my Series 3 Tivo. The existing drive didn't have pixelation (I've had that before) but would randomly freeze or hang.

I thought it might be bad caps and replaced one cap that had a slight dome on the top - the 2200 UF 25v radial can one. However no change to the symptoms - in fact the replacement cap (Nichicon) now has a slight dome on top of it in the power supply. However, it seems to be working ok. 

I ran Kickstart 54 and it had a FAIL 7 on the extended test. The last time I replaced a drive I used weaknees but was upset over the comcast policy of requiring a truck roll to get the cable cards paired. Even the technician said he didn't know why he had to come out! I used a dual dock to make the copy and after successful completion of the copy, the Series 3 hung on the initial power up screen. Being a mac household (with Vista Bootcamp on an iMac) I was unable to easily do the wdiddle3 step.

Today, I used a PC at the office to set the wdidle3 setting to 300 seconds and after that everything went well on the unit. Thanks for everyone's comments before me!


----------



## lrhorer

crowfan said:


> I read somewhere that a drive must be at least 3gb/s for it to work. Is that true? It seems most are 6 these days anyway.


'Not even. Video just isn't that demanding. In any case, the transfer spec for a hard drive is the maximum burst transfer speed, and has more to do with the electronics than the mechanics of the drive. The maximum sustained transfer rate has more to do with the mechanics of the drive, in particular the seek rate and the rotational speed. The maximum transfer rate for four simultaneous 1080i HD recordings is only about 10MB /sec - far below that of even the slowest modern drives.


----------



## unitron

DHP said:


> I just used WinMFS to copy a failing WD drive to a new WD10EARS drive on my Series 3 Tivo. The existing drive didn't have pixelation (I've had that before) but would randomly freeze or hang.
> 
> I thought it might be bad caps and replaced one cap that had a slight dome on the top - the 2200 UF 25v radial can one. However no change to the symptoms - in fact the replacement cap (Nichicon) now has a slight dome on top of it in the power supply. However, it seems to be working ok.
> 
> I ran Kickstart 54 and it had a FAIL 7 on the extended test. The last time I replaced a drive I used weaknees but was upset over the comcast policy of requiring a truck roll to get the cable cards paired. Even the technician said he didn't know why he had to come out! I used a dual dock to make the copy and after successful completion of the copy, the Series 3 hung on the initial power up screen. Being a mac household (with Vista Bootcamp on an iMac) I was unable to easily do the wdiddle3 step.
> 
> Today, I used a PC at the office to set the wdidle3 setting to 300 seconds and after that everything went well on the unit. Thanks for everyone's comments before me!


That cap you replaced may have been in parallel with another one which was also flawed (but just didn't show it) and if it's bad that's put too much work on the replacement you just put in, which could explain why it's already going bad.


----------



## crowfan

Thanks for all of the info everyone. It's been working OK since that night, and with prices where they are, I'm just going to live with it for a little while longer. If it dies before the prices come back down to normal, I'll bite the bullet and pay more for the drive.


----------



## John Wilson

I have a Series 3 with an external SATA drive that is going down hill. This is not the POS WD but a SATA drive in an ANTEC MX-1 cabinet. I don't like the two-drive setup so I'd like to divorce the drives and install one internal one in the S3. Tigerdirect has this one for a reasonable price but I don't know if it will work:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...o=5372532&srkey=tsd-1500as2&SRCCODE=WEM2918TT

Thanks for your advice. Inexpensive drives are getting very hard to find these days.


----------



## dwit

John Wilson said:


> I have a Series 3 with an external SATA drive that is going down hill. This is not the POS WD but a SATA drive in an ANTEC MX-1 cabinet. I don't like the two-drive setup so I'd like to divorce the drives and install one internal one in the S3. Tigerdirect has this one for a reasonable price but I don't know if it will work:
> 
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...o=5372532&srkey=tsd-1500as2&SRCCODE=WEM2918TT
> 
> Thanks for your advice. Inexpensive drives are getting very hard to find these days.


After 3 years of solid operation, I began having issues with my Tivo HD with an Antec-MX1/WD1TB external set up. Finally replaced the cable that came with the Antec and it's back to rock solid again.

A "bad" esata cable can mimic all sorts drive issue symptoms. If you happen to have another esata cable handy, try it. Also, make sure the cable connectors are making a good, solid, undisturbed connection to the Tivo.


----------



## unitron

John Wilson said:


> I have a Series 3 with an external SATA drive that is going down hill. This is not the POS WD but a SATA drive in an ANTEC MX-1 cabinet. I don't like the two-drive setup so I'd like to divorce the drives and install one internal one in the S3. Tigerdirect has this one for a reasonable price but I don't know if it will work:
> 
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...o=5372532&srkey=tsd-1500as2&SRCCODE=WEM2918TT
> 
> Thanks for your advice. Inexpensive drives are getting very hard to find these days.


That price is so good compared to what they're asking for a 7200rpm 1.5TB Seagate that I'm more than a little suspicious.

You should check your local Target and see if they have any left of the WD Elements externals (1.5TB and 2TB) they're closing out.

Probably a 15EARS or 20EARS inside (Caviar Greens).

Take it out of the enclosure, run wdidle3 on it to disable intellipark, and go to town.


----------



## John Wilson

unitron said:


> That price is so good compared to what they're asking for a 7200rpm 1.5TB Seagate that I'm more than a little suspicious.
> 
> You should check your local Target and see if they have any left of the WD Elements externals (1.5TB and 2TB) they're closing out.
> 
> Probably a 15EARS or 20EARS inside (Caviar Greens).
> 
> Take it out of the enclosure, run wdidle3 on it to disable intellipark, and go to town.


I took your advice and checked out my local Target. They had 2 of the 1.5 TB drives left and I bought them both. $72.00 plus tax each. Now I have a few questions:

How do I get one of them out of the enclosure without wreaking it?
Will this drive be compatible with my Series-3 (648-series) TiVo? 
Can I use WinMFS with the normal Supersizing?
I think I understand the intellipark procedure. Is it as straightforward as it appears?

Thanks for the guidance unitron. I assume that the Caviar Green drives are DVR-appropriate?


----------



## steve614

John Wilson said:


> How do I get one of them out of the enclosure without wreaking it?


If what you bought is anything like Seagates' externals, you will wreck the case getting to the hard drive.
The hard drive itself should be pretty well protected.


----------



## unitron

John Wilson said:


> I took your advice and checked out my local Target. They had 2 of the 1.5 TB drives left and I bought them both. $72.00 plus tax each. Now I have a few questions:
> 
> How do I get one of them out of the enclosure without wreaking it?
> Will this drive be compatible with my Series-3 (648-series) TiVo?
> Can I use WinMFS with the normal Supersizing?
> I think I understand the intellipark procedure. Is it as straightforward as it appears?
> 
> Thanks for the guidance unitron. I assume that the Caviar Green drives are DVR-appropriate?


Never opened one myself (but only because I've never had my hands on one.), but check this video out:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZUMh_H3B_Y[/media]

Note that the drive inside yours probably won't be a 15EADS but a 15EARS.

Either should work fine in a TiVo once you turn off Intellipark.

You find somewhere to download wdidle3, it should be an image of a bootable cd, and you burn your self a copy, and boot the computer with it with the drive attached to a SATA port on the motherboard.

(If it's a GigaByte brand motherboard, say so, so we can deal with the necessary extra precautions to keep it from trying to put a Host Protected Area on the drive)






Adding links as my failing internet connection lets me.


----------



## philt56

Sorry if this is a repeat of earlier posts, but want to make sure this is something worth doing. I have a Tivo HD with the 500GB WD expander on it probably 3 years old or so. Until recently it had been fine. Earlier this summer, I was getting reboots and it would be stuck until I powered down the Tivo and expander and let it sit for a couple days. It was then good for a couple months and same thing happened. Again I unplugged for a day and things were good. Now third time, no luck. Went on vacation and left it unplugged for a week, Tivo comes up and is good for maybe 3 hours and then reboots and is stuck in a power up loop. When I do unplug and get it back, I do see all my recordings and they seem intact. So I'm more suspicious that it's the enclosure hardware vs the drive itself.

Is it possible to take the drive from the the expander and put it in a new enclosure (any specifc one best?) and still keep all the data on both drives? Does the "remarry" procedure cause the existing data to be lost?

Weakknees says they can do it with one of the enclosures that they sell, but says I have to ship them both the Tivo and the expander for them to do it. But they won't guarantee the results if it's the drive that was bad. Seems like I should be able to remove the internal drive and send it with the expander.

I ran the boot start 54 and got a error on the external drive but sounds like that's not a guarantee it's the HD itself, could be the case hw too? The other funny thing, is the scan never finished on the external drive. The screen said the estimate completion time was maybe 4 hrs (don't remember exactly) and it was still running after 8 hrs!


I assume there is no way to copy everything from the 2 married drives to a single new drive right?

thanks for everyone's help!
Phil


----------



## lpwcomp

philt56 said:


> Weakknees says they can do it with one of the enclosures that they sell, but says I have to ship them both the Tivo and the expander for them to do it. But they won't guarantee the results if it's the drive that was bad. Seems like I should be able to remove the internal drive and send it with the expander.


The recordings are tied to the TSN of the TiVo. That's why they need everything.


----------



## unitron

philt56 said:


> Sorry if this is a repeat of earlier posts, but want to make sure this is something worth doing. I have a Tivo HD with the 500GB WD expander on it probably 3 years old or so. Until recently it had been fine. Earlier this summer, I was getting reboots and it would be stuck until I powered down the Tivo and expander and let it sit for a couple days. It was then good for a couple months and same thing happened. Again I unplugged for a day and things were good. Now third time, no luck. Went on vacation and left it unplugged for a week, Tivo comes up and is good for maybe 3 hours and then reboots and is stuck in a power up loop. When I do unplug and get it back, I do see all my recordings and they seem intact. So I'm more suspicious that it's the enclosure hardware vs the drive itself.
> 
> Is it possible to take the drive from the the expander and put it in a new enclosure (any specifc one best?) and still keep all the data on both drives? Does the "remarry" procedure cause the existing data to be lost?
> 
> Weakknees says they can do it with one of the enclosures that they sell, but says I have to ship them both the Tivo and the expander for them to do it. But they won't guarantee the results if it's the drive that was bad. Seems like I should be able to remove the internal drive and send it with the expander.
> 
> I ran the boot start 54 and got a error on the external drive but sounds like that's not a guarantee it's the HD itself, could be the case hw too? The other funny thing, is the scan never finished on the external drive. The screen said the estimate completion time was maybe 4 hrs (don't remember exactly) and it was still running after 8 hrs!
> 
> I assume there is no way to copy everything from the 2 married drives to a single new drive right?
> 
> thanks for everyone's help!
> Phil


You should probably remove both the internal drive and remove the external from its enclosure and run the WD diagnostics long test on both to be sure if either drive or both are going bad or not.

And while you've got the S3 HD open you should carefully inspect the power supply's capacitors.

Search my posts for "capacitor OR capacitors" and you should find links to how to spot any going bad, and explanations of why it matters.


----------



## seriously_tho

I've got a HD XL with a hard drive about to croak. Time to replace. I've read thru the FAQ here & have a handful of questions before I begin -

The goal is to clone my existing drive & save all settings & recordings to a larger single internal drive (2tb).

First, the supported drives list seems outdated & they're all 1tb or smaller. Is there a current list? (I'm too new to post a link to the list)

I'm eyeballing this on Amazon, look OK? Is there a better comparable option?

Western Digital AV-GP 2 TB SATA II - WD20EURS

Next I plan on using WinMFS to clone etc. Looks like the latest build was almost 3 years ago - is this still the best option? Will this work OK with Win 7 using an external SATA drive dock?

_winmfs_beta9_3f_

TIA!


----------



## unitron

seriously_tho said:


> I've got a HD XL with a hard drive about to croak. Time to replace. I've read thru the FAQ here & have a handful of questions before I begin -
> 
> The goal is to clone my existing drive & save all settings & recordings to a larger single internal drive (2tb).
> 
> First, the supported drives list seems outdated & they're all 1tb or smaller. Is there a current list? (I'm too new to post a link to the list)
> 
> I'm eyeballing this on Amazon, look OK? Is there a better comparable option?
> 
> Western Digital AV-GP 2 TB SATA II - WD20EURS
> 
> Next I plan on using WinMFS to clone etc. Looks like the latest build was almost 3 years ago - is this still the best option? Will this work OK with Win 7 using an external SATA drive dock?
> 
> _winmfs_beta9_3f_
> 
> TIA!


See if your local Target still has any 2TB WD Elements external drives on sale. (Sale ends today, it's a closeout).

It'll be cheaper than buying one any other way now that prices have skyrocketed due to the flooding in Thailand.

There should be a Caviar Green inside that'll work just fine. If not, it'll be a more expensive Blue or Black.

To actually expand after the copy, you'll need to use jmfs, there's a separate thread about using it on S3 HDs (plus the original thread about using it on the Premiere, which is what it was really designed for).

However, if you use WinMFS to take a look at your HD's original drive, you can tell us how big the swap partition is, compared to the one on the regular HD's 160GB drive.

Also you could use WinMFS to do the copy onto the 2TB and enlarge the swap partition size in the process before using jmfs for the actual expand, I think.

If you aren't in a huge hurry you could do a little non-destructive experimentation from which the rest of us could learn.


----------



## seriously_tho

No dice on the 2tb WD external at Target but I can probably find the 1.5 tb. Same deal?

Honestly the expanding isn't very important, I've never reached capacity on the existing drive (HD XL with 150 hrs of HD capacity). Just seems like if I'm going to replace I might as well upgrade. But tell me, you say use JMFS to expand after copying, is it going to get complex? I'm no genius with partitions & formatting, just following the walkthru.


----------



## unitron

seriously_tho said:


> No dice on the 2tb WD external at Target but I can probably find the 1.5 tb. Same deal?
> 
> Honestly the expanding isn't very important, I've never reached capacity on the existing drive (HD XL with 150 hrs of HD capacity). Just seems like if I'm going to replace I might as well upgrade. But tell me, you say use JMFS to expand after copying, is it going to get complex? I'm no genius with partitions & formatting, just following the walkthru.


Yeah, whatever's in there should work just fine in a TiVo.

After you take it out of the enclosure (bye bye warranty, technically), you'll need to hook it straight to a SATA port on a PC motherboard and boot from a bootable cd with wdidle3 on it and enter the command

wdidle3 /d

to disable the intellipark feature that interferes with the TiVo doing a soft reboot.

Somewhere around here I posted a link to a YouTube about how to take the enclosure apart.

You'll need to hook it and the original TiVo drive to SATA ports and boot into Windows XP or newer and run WinMFS to copy, with swap partition increase, from the TiVo drive to the new drive.

Before you do, (after opening WinMFS) select the TiVo drive, click mfsinfo, and make a note of the size of the original drive's swap partition and report it back to us.

Then you'll need to shut down Windows, reboot with a jmfs cd, and use jmfs to expand.

jmfs boots to a menu of choices, all you have to do is choose expand.

Actually, if the swap partition is already 500MB or better, you can use jmfs to do both the copy and the expand.


----------



## MeInDallas

I have a friend, her drive went out on her TiVo HD, she was running the original drive. I took it out and ran a SMART test and it shows to be failing. So I had an older Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 250GB ST3250823AS sitting around that I imaged and popped in her TiVo that she can have until prices come down and she can get a good WD Green AV replacement. Well I put it in there and did all the updates and got it going and I tested it recording 2 HD shows at once while watching a 3rd already recorded show. Holy smokes this thing started "clicking" like crazy! I took it back out and tried to adjust the AAM settings, but everything I try to do it with shows that AAM option is not available for this drive. I really dont have a lot of experience with Seagate drives. In fact this is the only one I have ever owned before, I'm a Western Digital person.

So my question is (1) can you not adjust AAM settings on this model drive? and (2) will the constant "clicking" ruin this drive? It seems to record shows just fine and play them back good with no issues so far. I checked the temp and everything is OK there also. Also this drive hasnt been used a lot. It only has a little over 2,000 power on hours in the SMART and I have other drives that are way past 60,000 hours and still going strong. Am I just destroying this drive letting it run in a TiVo?


----------



## unitron

MeInDallas said:


> I have a friend, her drive went out on her TiVo HD, she was running the original drive. I took it out and ran a SMART test and it shows to be failing. So I had an older Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 250GB ST3250823AS sitting around that I imaged and popped in her TiVo that she can have until prices come down and she can get a good WD Green AV replacement. Well I put it in there and did all the updates and got it going and I tested it recording 2 HD shows at once while watching a 3rd already recorded show. Holy smokes this thing started "clicking" like crazy! I took it back out and tried to adjust the AAM settings, but everything I try to do it with shows that AAM option is not available for this drive. I really dont have a lot of experience with Seagate drives. In fact this is the only one I have ever owned before, I'm a Western Digital person.
> 
> So my question is (1) can you not adjust AAM settings on this model drive? and (2) will the constant "clicking" ruin this drive? It seems to record shows just fine and play them back good with no issues so far. I checked the temp and everything is OK there also. Also this drive hasnt been used a lot. It only has a little over 2,000 power on hours in the SMART and I have other drives that are way past 60,000 hours and still going strong. Am I just destroying this drive letting it run in a TiVo?


Time to get Seagate's diagnostic software and run the long test on it. Clicking usually indicates the drive is getting ready to die, or already has.

If you're destroying the drive, it's not by letting it run in a TiVo, but just by letting it run.


----------



## seriously_tho

unitron said:


> Yeah, whatever's in there should work just fine in a TiVo.
> 
> After you take it out of the enclosure (bye bye warranty, technically), you'll need to hook it straight to a SATA port on a PC motherboard and boot from a bootable cd with wdidle3 on it and enter the command
> 
> wdidle3 /d
> 
> to disable the intellipark feature that interferes with the TiVo doing a soft reboot.
> 
> Somewhere around here I posted a link to a YouTube about how to take the enclosure apart.
> 
> You'll need to hook it and the original TiVo drive to SATA ports and boot into Windows XP or newer and run WinMFS to copy, with swap partition increase, from the TiVo drive to the new drive.
> 
> Before you do, (after opening WinMFS) select the TiVo drive, click mfsinfo, and make a note of the size of the original drive's swap partition and report it back to us.
> 
> Then you'll need to shut down Windows, reboot with a jmfs cd, and use jmfs to expand.
> 
> jmfs boots to a menu of choices, all you have to do is choose expand.
> 
> Actually, if the swap partition is already 500MB or better, you can use jmfs to do both the copy and the expand.


OK, thanks. Now assuming I can't find that external at Target (they look sold out), can I just order a 2tb WD Caviar Green drive & use? Does it need any special attributes? I read somewhere that there are certain drives built to be used in a DVR.

I also thought I read I could upgrade the storage cap by 1tb above the existing just by using winMFS - is that not true?


----------



## MeInDallas

unitron said:


> Time to get Seagate's diagnostic software and run the long test on it. Clicking usually indicates the drive is getting ready to die, or already has.
> 
> If you're destroying the drive, it's not by letting it run in a TiVo, but just by letting it run.


See before I imaged it, I ran Seatools on it, and it took like an hour and everything came back fine. No bad sectors or anything and the SMART comes back good also. I also ran HDAT2 and then Spinrite 6.0 and they all say the same thing. When it's not recording, but just watching live TV with the buffer then its silent, but if you start recording 2 shows and then watch another one it starts all this crazy clicking. It's really not that loud, I'm just so used to WD drives being so silent.

Could it be going bad and it's just not showing up on the tests yet?


----------



## unitron

seriously_tho said:


> OK, thanks. Now assuming I can't find that external at Target (they look sold out), can I just order a 2tb WD Caviar Green drive & use? Does it need any special attributes? I read somewhere that there are certain drives built to be used in a DVR.
> 
> I also thought I read I could upgrade the storage cap by 1tb above the existing just by using winMFS - is that not true?


A lot of people have used the "advanced format" (4096, or 4K, byte sectors) 64MB cache WD20EARS in HDs and Premieres.

I'm running a non "advanced format" (traditional 512 byte sectors) 32MB cache WD20EADS in an HD and it seems to be working fine.

If it had an "advanced format" 16MB cache WD20EACS, I wouldn't hesitate to use that.

All of those are Caviar Greens.

Of course I'd disable Intellipark on them first.

There are some "A/V" WD Caviar Greens, and with the current situation you might actually find one cheaper than the recently jacked up in price regular Greens. Or maybe not.

If you find a good price on a recent-ish model Samsung, that's probably work, also. I'm running a 1TB in a couple of S2s.

And some Caviar Blacks in a couple of S2 DTs. (but with an extra fan inside the TiVo, the Blacks get warmish)

The reason to copy with WinMFS is to be able to up the size of the swap partition, since jmfs has no provision for that.

I think WinMFS observes/runs up against the 1.1TB per drive restriction it was thought TiVos had, so after copying from a 1TB to a 1.5 or a 2 with a bigger swap, I'm hoping jmfs won't interpret the extra space as an "Apple Free" partition, the way the pdisk utility does any unpartioned space (it's a bug/feature/curiousity of the Apple Partition Map which TiVo uses). If it does, it'll think there's no space left into which to expand.

If you want to hang fire a day or two I can run an experiment on a 1TB and a 2TB I haven't repurposed yet, but in the meantime, if you would, hook up the XL's original 1TB drive to a Windows box and run WinMFS, select that drive, and click on mfsinfo, and copy paste the partition map back here.


----------



## unitron

MeInDallas said:


> See before I imaged it, I ran Seatools on it, and it took like an hour and everything came back fine. No bad sectors or anything and the SMART comes back good also. I also ran HDAT2 and then Spinrite 6.0 and they all say the same thing. When it's not recording, but just watching live TV with the buffer then its silent, but if you start recording 2 shows and then watch another one it starts all this crazy clicking. It's really not that loud, I'm just so used to WD drives being so silent.
> 
> Could it be going bad and it's just not showing up on the tests yet?


Perhaps we're talking about two different clickings, or different levels of same.

Death clicks are usually the actuator arm wildy bouncing from beginning to end of the platters. Looking for something that's not there, I suppose.

Did you use the "optimized" partition layout (the post Series 1, put partition 11 right after partition 1 so the OS is in the middle and recordings are at the end and beginning of the drive, partition layout)?

If it's recording 2 shows and playing back a third, that's 3 different areas of the drive having to be served by one acuator arm, so it's constantly jumping from one to the other, and that's probably what you're hearing. If it doesn't get louder, you probably don't need to worry for the time being.


----------



## MeInDallas

unitron said:


> Perhaps we're talking about two different clickings, or different levels of same.
> 
> Death clicks are usually the actuator arm wildy bouncing from beginning to end of the platters. Looking for something that's not there, I suppose.
> 
> Did you use the "optimized" partition layout (the post Series 1, put partition 11 right after partition 1 so the OS is in the middle and recordings are at the end and beginning of the drive, partition layout)?
> 
> If it's recording 2 shows and playing back a third, that's 3 different areas of the drive having to be served by one acuator arm, so it's constantly jumping from one to the other, and that's probably what you're hearing. If it doesn't get louder, you probably don't need to worry for the time being.


I just used WinMFS and then copied my TiVo backup file to the disc, and then it asked did I want to supersize it, I assume because the disc was a bit bigger then the original 160GB drive. I've never tried (or knew about) the optimized partition layout. You think that would help with the accoustics?

It's not really loud, I guess I'm just not used to any sound coming from drives in TiVo's. It reminds me of how a 6GB hard drive sounded 14 years ago in Pentium II computer.


----------



## unitron

MeInDallas said:


> I just used WinMFS and then copied my TiVo backup file to the disc, and then it asked did I want to supersize it, I assume because the disc was a bit bigger then the original 160GB drive. I've never tried (or knew about) the optimized partition layout. You think that would help with the accoustics?
> 
> It's not really loud, I guess I'm just not used to any sound coming from drives in TiVo's. It reminds me of how a 6GB hard drive sounded 14 years ago in Pentium II computer.


If you used WinMFS it would have automatically used the "optimized" layout unless you specifically told it not to, and one should only do that for a Series 1.

Supersize is not expand. Expand adds MFS partitions, Supersize does something to free up the space that ordinarily gets set aside by the TiVo for showcases and advertising.


----------



## MeInDallas

unitron said:


> If you used WinMFS it would have automatically used the "optimized" layout unless you specifically told it not to, and one should only do that for a Series 1.
> 
> Supersize is not expand. Expand adds MFS partitions, Supersize does something to free up the space that ordinarily gets set aside by the TiVo for showcases and advertising.


Oh OK, I just followed the directions listed here using WinMFS and I have a back up image from my TiVo, she has the same model. I didnt change any of the settings on WinMFS, just went by the directions listed here and the hard drive was wiped before using HDAT2 and then tested.

I was kinda unsure what Supersize did.


----------



## unitron

MeInDallas said:


> Oh OK, I just followed the directions listed here using WinMFS and I have a back up image from my TiVo, she has the same model. I didnt change any of the settings on WinMFS, just went by the directions listed here and the hard drive was wiped before using HDAT2 and then tested.
> 
> I was kinda unsure what Supersize did.


Did WinMFS ask you if you wanted to expand?

I think Supersize is an option you have to select, but that it doesn't prompt you about.


----------



## MeInDallas

unitron said:


> Did WinMFS ask you if you wanted to expand?
> 
> I think Supersize is an option you have to select, but that it doesn't prompt you about.


Yeah you have to turn it on, but once the image is tranferred over to the drive there is a pop up that comes up and says there is extra space and do you want to expand the drive and you just click yes.

I think if you have 2 drives connected at the same time and you are transferring from drive to drive its different. I cant remember its been a long time since I did it that way, I'd have to go back and look.


----------



## unitron

MeInDallas said:


> Yeah you have to turn it on, but once the image is tranferred over to the drive there is a pop up that comes up and says there is extra space and do you want to expand the drive and you just click yes.
> 
> I think if you have 2 drives connected at the same time and you are transferring from drive to drive its different. I cant remember its been a long time since I did it that way, I'd have to go back and look.


I've done small drive to big drive with WinMFS and after the copy it says I've got extra space and do I want to expand.

Although if you're going 1TB to 2TB it might very well not, because it observes the 1.1TB per drive limit.


----------



## lpwcomp

MeInDallas said:


> Yeah you have to turn it on, but once the image is tranferred over to the drive there is a pop up that comes up and says there is extra space and do you want to expand the drive and you just click yes.


As someone else pointed out earlier, expand and supersize are two different things.


----------



## MeInDallas

lpwcomp said:


> As someone else pointed out earlier, expand and supersize are two different things.


Yeah I got that already. I was just repeating what the instructions said, and the action I took when I prepared the hard drive.


----------



## seriously_tho

Thanks Unitron. I don't have the unit open and dont want to mess with it til I'm ready to swap so no partition info for you now. The drive is audibly clicking regularly, not loud but I know it's a sign of impending doom so the less movement the better right now I think.

Since prices for a WD are between $150-250 for a 2 tb I'm thinking I may just pay DVR Dude to do the whole swap, not much difference in $$.

2more ??'s - is there any real advantage to using the WD av-gp drives over a standard Green? and if I opt to replace my 1tb drive with an identical 1tb, could I do the whole transfer with winmfs? (looking to keep things simple).


----------



## unitron

seriously_tho said:


> Thanks Unitron. I don't have the unit open and dont want to mess with it til I'm ready to swap so no partition info for you now. The drive is audibly clicking regularly, not loud but I know it's a sign of impending doom so the less movement the better right now I think.
> 
> Since prices for a WD are between $150-250 for a 2 tb I'm thinking I may just pay DVR Dude to do the whole swap, not much difference in $$.
> 
> 2more ??'s - is there any real advantage to using the WD av-gp drives over a standard Green? and if I opt to replace my 1tb drive with an identical 1tb, could I do the whole transfer with winmfs? (looking to keep things simple).


If you go with an identical size 1TB (and by indentical I mean the same LBA number), you can do it with dd_rescue on the MFS Live cd v1.4 (available at mfslive.org, and handy to have by anybody who does anything with hard drives, whether they own a TiVo or not)

dd_rescue -v /dev/sda /dev/sdb

where sda is the original drive and sdb is the new, target drive, and -v (the verbose option) let's you see what's going on.

What this method does is a byte for byte clone/Xerox of the source drive, that pays no attention to what software is on the drive because it looks at it at a lower level.

I have no first hand experience with the av-gp drives.


----------



## lpwcomp

MeInDallas said:


> Yeah I got that already. I was just repeating what the instructions said, and the action I took when I prepared the hard drive.


In context with the post you quoted, you seemed to be implying that it prompts you about supersizing, which it doesn't.


----------



## MeInDallas

lpwcomp said:


> In context with the post you quoted, you seemed to be implying that it prompts you about supersizing, which it doesn't.


Yeah see I understand that, and I was talking with Unitron and he pointed that out to me, so I didnt need you to chime in like a hall monitor to correct me. If you want a fight please go to a wresting match or a school yard.


----------



## Soapm

MeInDallas said:


> Yeah see I understand that, and I was talking with Unitron and he pointed that out to me, so I didnt need you to chime in like a hall monitor to correct me. If you want a fight please go to a wresting match or a school yard.


Now there's a strange way to say thanks to someone trying to help...


----------



## lpwcomp

MeInDallas said:


> Yeah see I understand that, and I was talking with Unitron and he pointed that out to me, so I didnt need you to chime in like a hall monitor to correct me. If you want a fight please go to a wresting match or a school yard.


I don't want to fight but if you don't want criticism, you need to be clearer in your posts. You are participating in a public forum. If you wish to have a private conversation with someone, then PM them. Your post was *clearly* implying that you would be prompted about supersizing, which could lead to _other_ users being confused. One shouldn't be forced to read your mind to "properly" interpret the following:


> Yeah you have to turn it on, but once the image is tranferred over to the drive there is a pop up that comes up and says there is extra space and do you want to expand the drive and you just click yes.


The sequence of events is actually:

1. Copy
2. When the copy completes, you should be prompted if you want to use the extra space (expand)
3. Based on the answer, the free space will be allocated.
4. After that step, you must _explicitly_ select and turn on Supersize if you so desire. It is not a requirement. You will not be prompted to do so. If you leave it off, it will simply result in excessive space being allocated for the TiVo to use for things like teleworld. A supersized 2TB drive will report @318 hours of HD capacity vs. 297(IIRC) for a non supersized one.

That brings up a question: Has anyone _just_ supersized a stock Premiere XL drive to get the additional capacity? May not be worth the effort unless you are doing a lot of SD recording but just curious as to whether or not it had been done. Also, what does the Elite report as capacity? TiVo specs say 300 hours which is obviously not supersized. And no, I am not suggesting anyone attempt supersizing an Elite drive.

Edit: Just to be clear, I am aware that a stock Premiere XL drive is only 1TB.


----------



## seriously_tho

Blank post to up my postcount to a whopping 5...


----------



## seriously_tho

Unitron, I went ahead & pulled it out to backup, here are MSINFO specs -










I ordered a 2tb WD AV-GP drive (the oem drive is also av-gp, 1tb). Think I can do the transfer etc with just winmfs?


----------



## unitron

seriously_tho said:


> Unitron, I went ahead & pulled it out to backup, here are MSINFO specs -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ordered a 2tb WD AV-GP drive (the oem drive is also av-gp, 1tb). Think I can do the transfer etc with just winmfs?


You can use WinMFS to copy to another drive, but you'll need jmfs to expand into that extra 1TB. The question is whether to let jmfs do it all or use WinMFS first and then jmfs.

As long as you've got the drive out of the TiVo...

If you'll use WinMFS to make a truncated backup of that drive, and put it on DropBox or SendSpace or somewhere where I can download it, I can restore it to a 1TB, which will then give me the equivalent of an HD XL drive, including partition size and layout, and then experiment on the best way to copy and expand to a 2TB.

Also, after you make that backup, you could use the WD diagnostic software to run the long test on that drive to see if it's still usable in some capacity or not.

(or you could just send it to me when you're through with it. )


----------



## MeInDallas

lpwcomp said:


> I don't want to fight but if you don't want criticism, you need to be clearer in your posts. You are participating in a public forum. If you wish to have a private conversation with someone, then PM them. Your post was *clearly* implying that you would be prompted about supersizing, which could lead to _other_ users being confused. One shouldn't be forced to read your mind to "properly" interpret the following:
> 
> The sequence of events is actually:
> 
> 1. Copy
> 2. When the copy completes, you should be prompted if you want to use the extra space (expand)
> 3. Based on the answer, the free space will be allocated.
> 4. After that step, you must _explicitly_ select and turn on Supersize if you so desire. It is not a requirement. You will not be prompted to do so. If you leave it off, it will simply result in excessive space being allocated for the TiVo to use for things like teleworld. A supersized 2TB drive will report @318 hours of HD capacity vs. 297(IIRC) for a non supersized one.
> 
> That brings up a question: Has anyone _just_ supersized a stock Premiere XL drive to get the additional capacity? May not be worth the effort unless you are doing a lot of SD recording but just curious as to whether or not it had been done. Also, what does the Elite report as capacity? TiVo specs say 300 hours which is obviously not supersized. And no, I am not suggesting anyone attempt supersizing an Elite drive.
> 
> Edit: Just to be clear, I am aware that a stock Premiere XL drive is only 1TB.


The way you quoted me, you made it sound as if there is there is no pop up at the end of the process, which there clearly is. Maybe you should be more specific about what you quote when you respond to someone. I cannot read your mind either, and when you misquote people, you confuse others also.


----------



## lpwcomp

MeInDallas said:


> The way you quoted me, you made it sound as if there is there is no pop up at the end of the process, which there clearly is. Maybe you should be more specific about what you quote when you respond to someone. I cannot read your mind either, and when you misquote people, you confuse others also.


That's a patent lie. I did not misquote you. I did not even leave out relevant parts of your post or quote you out of context in a manner that made it look worse. Unless you can show otherwise, withdraw that accusation or I will consider filing a formal complaint.


----------



## unitron

lpwcomp said:


> That's a patent lie. I did not misquote you. I did not even leave out relevant parts of your post or quote you out of context in a manner that made it look worse. Unless you can show otherwise, withdraw that accusation or I will consider filing a formal complaint.


What you quoted in this post

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8851534#post8851534

right after the "read his mind" remark, was posted by him after we had cleared up the expand/supersize confusion.

It was in this earlier post of his

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8850852#post8850852

where he said supersize where he should have said expand, but as I indicted we got that straightened out soon thereafter, about 2 hours before your first post

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8850987#post8850987

on the subject appeared.

Maybe somebody spliced in some slow-wire between you and the TCF servers.


----------



## MeInDallas

lpwcomp said:


> That's a patent lie. I did not misquote you. I did not even leave out relevant parts of your post or quote you out of context in a manner that made it look worse. Unless you can show otherwise, withdraw that accusation or I will consider filing a formal complaint.


Go back to the top of this thread to your post #8342 and read the statement you quoted from me. The statement I made is a true and accurate statement. The way you quoted it leads people to believe that it is not true and that I am misleading people. I will not withdraw anything so go file your complaint.


----------



## seriously_tho

^^ People, knock it off. This is the stupidest argument in the history of stupid arguments. Seriously.

Unitron, I'll post that backup somewhere, size allowing. Look for PM. Not sure you'd want the physical drive, it sounds like a pencil tapping on a desk.


----------



## lpwcomp

seriously_tho said:


> ^^ People, knock it off. This is the stupidest argument in the history of stupid arguments. Seriously.


If not, it's probably pretty close, so I hereby call a unilateral truce.


----------



## Soapm

unitron said:


> You can use WinMFS to copy to another drive, but you'll need jmfs to expand into that extra 1TB. The question is whether to let jmfs do it all or use WinMFS first and then jmfs. )


In my experience, you can't expand a drive with jfms that has been restored with WinMFS. You have to use WinMFS to expand the drive. jfms won't acknowledge it as a valid tivo drive so won't give you the option to expand it.

If I am reading the situation right you have to completely restore the image to a 1TB or larger drive using WinMFS then pray jfms will recognize the drive as a valid Tivo drive. I find the program is very picky on what it will acknowledge as a valid Tivo drive which is why I once asked what it's looking for.

A second reason to restore it to a 1TB drive before using jfms to expand it to 2tb is so you won't end up with a partition larger than 1TB. I don't know for sure if that's what my TivoHD doesn't like but it can't hurt not to have a partition > 1TB.

PS... One other suggestion, I would make sure the software is up to date prior to copying it to the final drive with jfms. Not sure why but it seems to like that better...


----------



## unitron

Soapm said:


> In my experience, you can't expand a drive with jfms that has been restored with WinMFS. You have to use WinMFS to expand the drive. jfms won't acknowledge it as a valid tivo drive so won't give you the option to expand it.
> 
> If I am reading the situation right you have to completely restore the image to a 1TB or larger drive using WinMFS then pray jfms will recognize the drive as a valid Tivo drive. I find the program is very picky on what it will acknowledge as a valid Tivo drive which is why I once asked what it's looking for.
> 
> A second reason to restore it to a 1TB drive before using jfms to expand it to 2tb is so you won't end up with a partition larger than 1TB. I don't know for sure if that's what my TivoHD doesn't like but it can't hurt not to have a partition > 1TB.
> 
> PS... One other suggestion, I would make sure the software is up to date prior to copying it to the final drive with jfms. Not sure why but it seems to like that better...


What usually trips up jmfs is if there's any unpartitioned space on the source drive that can be interpreted as an "Apple Free" partition, because jmfs considers it a valid partition and instead of using it justs puts another partiton beyond it, which usually exceeds the 16 partitions per drive rule.


----------



## lpwcomp

Does JMFS copy everything, or just the blocks actually being used?


----------



## seriously_tho

unitron said:


> What usually trips up jmfs is if there's any unpartitioned space on the source drive that can be interpreted as an "Apple Free" partition, because jmfs considers it a valid partition and instead of using it justs puts another partiton beyond it, which usually exceeds the 16 partitions per drive rule.


I've got the backup file uploaded to dropbox for you but need an email address to send you the link...and I can't send a PM til I have 10 posts...


----------



## seriously_tho

The guy at DVRstore.com (DVR_Dude) mentioned that JMFS doesn't set things up quite right & leads to problems down the road, I don't know why. He suggested WinMFS.

9 posts...


----------



## seriously_tho

lpwcomp said:


> If not, it's probably pretty close, so I hereby call a unilateral truce.


Thank God. Playing he said/she said where everything's in writing just seemed silly 

Woohoo - 10 posts! PM sent.


----------



## tlp95129

I'm planning to upgrade the original drive in my TiVo HD (TCD652160) with a 1 TB WD10EVVS, salvaged from a Sezmi DVR. Is there any special preparation I need to do on the new drive, like partitioning or formatting, before going through the MFS upgrade procedure or will MFS handle it all. I have no idea what file system is on the drive now, but I would guess it's some Linux variant like ext3.


----------



## lrhorer

tlp95129 said:


> I'm planning to upgrade the original drive in my TiVo HD (TCD652160) with a 1 TB WD10EVVS, salvaged from a Sezmi DVR. Is there any special preparation I need to do on the new drive, like partitioning or formatting, before going through the MFS upgrade procedure


No.


----------



## unitron

tlp95129 said:


> I'm planning to upgrade the original drive in my TiVo HD (TCD652160) with a 1 TB WD10EVVS, salvaged from a Sezmi DVR. Is there any special preparation I need to do on the new drive, like partitioning or formatting, before going through the MFS upgrade procedure or will MFS handle it all. I have no idea what file system is on the drive now, but I would guess it's some Linux variant like ext3.


You might want to run wdidle3 to see if Intellipark needs disabling.

MFS Live or WinMFS will overwrite everything on the drive, so as long as it doesn't have a Host Protected Area, nothing special need be done.

To check for HPA, boot from MFS Live cd

hdparm -N /dev/sda

where sda is the drive in question

It should come up with two long numbers and if they match, you're good to go.


----------



## seriously_tho

So I ran MFScopy between the 1tb OEM drive & the new 2tb drive following the instructions in post 1. Do I need to mess with JFMS too?

results -


----------



## unitron

seriously_tho said:


> So I ran MFScopy between the 1tb OEM drive & the new 2tb drive following the instructions in post 1. Do I need to mess with JFMS too?
> 
> results -


I took the TCD658000 S3 HD XL image you "dropped" and restored it (with WinMFS) to a 1TB drive, which it completely filled.

Tried it in my TCD652160 S3 HD, and it boots (eventually) and I can run guided setup, but apparently the mismatch between the software being 658 and the machine (and its TiVo Service Number) being a 652 keeps it convinced it has an error 51.

Using that image puts only 4 MFS partitions on a 1TB drive, instead of the 6 you'd get from putting a 652 image on and expanding.

I used WinMFS to go from the 1TB to the 2TB, increasing the swap size to about 1GB, which leaves me with a big ol' Apple Free Partition, which would trip up jmfs, so I went ahead and let WinMFS expand.

It put 2 more MFS partitions on, filling the 2TB drive.

Tried that in my HD and got pretty much the same deal as with the 1TB, but in system info it appears it sees all 2TB of space.

Be a pioneer and go ahead and try it the way you've got it, with only the WinMFS expansion (at this point there's no room for jmfs to create that 16th partition anyway).

I suspect it might work just fine.

The HD XL and the HD both come with 2 MFS pairs on the stock drive, but since the XL's drive is bigger, they are bigger.

This means adding a third MFS pair (to an XL going from the stock 1TB to a 2TB) doesn't break the supposed "no partition bigger than 1.1TB" rule, the way it would with a regular HD.

I wonder if I can use jmfs to put a 2TB in a Series 2?


----------



## seriously_tho

^^ Reading that is like reading a novel in Spanish, I get the gist of it but the nuances are lost on me 

I plugged it back into the Tivo & works fine, shows 318 hours of HD space available. So I'm thinking I'm good now, no JMFS.

I'll report back here if something goes wrong, otherwise assume you can upgrade a S3 HD XL from 1tb to a 2tb drive usig only WinMFS & the stock instructions on page 1 of this thread.

Thanks all for the help, especially Unitron for talking slow enough for me to understand


----------



## unitron

seriously_tho said:


> ^^ Reading that is like reading a novel in Spanish, I get the gist of it but the nuances are lost on me
> 
> I plugged it back into the Tivo & works fine, shows 318 hours of HD space available. So I'm thinking I'm good now, no JMFS.
> 
> I'll report back here if something goes wrong, otherwise assume you can upgrade a S3 HD XL from 1tb to a 2tb drive usig only WinMFS & the stock instructions on page 1 of this thread.
> 
> Thanks all for the help, especially Unitron for talking slow enough for me to understand


How many SD hours does it show?


----------



## seriously_tho

Something like 50 kajillion.

I don't remember but it looked right.


----------



## Soapm

unitron said:


> The HD XL and the HD both come with 2 MFS pairs on the stock drive, but since the XL's drive is bigger, they are bigger.
> 
> This means adding a third MFS pair (to an XL going from the stock 1TB to a 2TB) doesn't break the supposed "no partition bigger than 1.1TB" rule, the way it would with a regular HD.
> 
> I wonder if I can use jmfs to put a 2TB in a Series 2?


Has anyone ever tried loading the XL partition table then inserting the HD software over the top? Is that even possible? It seems like you could load the XL image and expand it and all then copy in the software from the HD drive. I know DD won't work because it will destroy the partition table but copying should work???


----------



## unitron

Soapm said:


> Has anyone ever tried loading the XL partition table then inserting the HD software over the top? Is that even possible? It seems like you could load the XL image and expand it and all then copy in the software from the HD drive. I know DD won't work because it will destroy the partition table but copying should work???


You can dd individual partitions as well as an entire drive (or parts thereof, if you know the right numbers for the starting and ending points).

When I can take my HD back offline I'm going to try that, but I'll use dd_rescue so I can see what's going on.

To nitpick, though, it wouldn't be loading the XL partition table, it would be restoring an XL image (which would include the partition table, of course) and then overwriting partitions 2-9 with the same from a non-XL HD drive. They should be the same size on both machines.

If nothing else, it'll help some with the question of what's in which partitions.

For instance if the THX video comes up, that'll mean it's in the MFS partitions and not the OS ones.


----------



## JuryDuty

I have a TCD652160 (TivoHD) whose My Tivo Expander just died.

Rather than replace the expander, I'd rather just upgrade the main unit's drive.

I've replaced several Series 2 drives and think I won't have a problem following the OP's directions for replacing this Series 3 drive...but what drive should I get to replace it? The ones on the OP all appear discontinued.

I'd prefer one that's at least 1 TB and quiet. And cheap.  Can anyone help?


----------



## unitron

JuryDuty said:


> I have a TCD652160 (TivoHD) whose My Tivo Expander just died.
> 
> Rather than replace the expander, I'd rather just upgrade the main unit's drive.
> 
> I've replaced several Series 2 drives and think I won't have a problem following the OP's directions for replacing this Series 3 drive...but what drive should I get to replace it? The ones on the OP all appear discontinued.
> 
> I'd prefer one that's at least 1 TB and quiet. And cheap.  Can anyone help?


This is a terrible time to be hard drive shopping, especially if you're somewhat financially constrained.

It may be a case not so much of what should you get as what can you find.

Have you taken the expander apart and tested the actual drive inside with the manufacturer's diagnostic software?

Are you sure it isn't just the eSATA cable gone bad, as has happened to so many people with external drives?


----------



## ThAbtO

JuryDuty said:


> I'd prefer one that's at least 1 TB and quiet. And cheap.  Can anyone help?


Currently, hard drive prices have sky rocketed due to Thailand flooding, so there is a shortage.

I just looked on amazon.com, the WD10EARS (1tb) is at $118, usually around $60. The WD20EARS (purchased in Oct. for $70), is at $144. (FYI.)


----------



## ThAbtO

I'm thinking of upgrading my 540080 to a 1 Tb and was just wondering how many hours there would be.


----------



## Soapm

unitron said:


> To nitpick, though, it wouldn't be loading the XL partition table, it would be restoring an XL image (which would include the partition table, of course) and then overwriting partitions 2-9 with the same from a non-XL HD drive. They should be the same size on both machines..


You understood where I was going even though I did flub the technical details. If you get it to work on say a 1TB drive, can you upload a truncated copy so I can restore and expand it on to my 2TB?


----------



## lpwcomp

ThAbtO said:


> I'm thinking of upgrading my 540080 to a 1 Tb and was just wondering how many hours there would be.


http://www.weaknees.com/details2/rs1t0t548.php


----------



## JuryDuty

unitron said:


> Have you taken the expander apart and tested the actual drive inside with the manufacturer's diagnostic software?
> 
> Are you sure it isn't just the eSATA cable gone bad, as has happened to so many people with external drives?


I haven't. I ran the Tivo diagnostic and everything passed, but it's been making my shows not record, sputter, tivo reboot, etc. I removed it and the Tivo works fine.

I never figured it could be a bad cable. LOL I'll have to try another one.


----------



## unitron

ThAbtO said:


> I'm thinking of upgrading my 540080 to a 1 Tb and was just wondering how many hours there would be.


I'm running a 1TB in a 540, which I just now rebooted after a failed experiment, and in system info it says

Variable, up to 1149 hours

I upped the swap partition size to 512MB, so that number is a smidge lower than it would be with the original 128MB size swap.

Those are basic quality hours, of course.

And don't forget, a 1TB will be a SATA and the 540 is PATA, so here's the link to the recommended reading.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=416883

Short version, get a Jmicron or Marvell chipset based adapter.


----------



## unitron

JuryDuty said:


> I haven't. I ran the Tivo diagnostic and everything passed, but it's been making my shows not record, sputter, tivo reboot, etc. I removed it and the Tivo works fine.
> 
> I never figured it could be a bad cable. LOL I'll have to try another one.


If you go back to the earlier pages of this thread you'll find a lot of discussion of expanders and bad eSATA cables and the troubles they cause and how some of them seemed to go bad just sitting there.

If you removed it, didn't the TiVo complain about it being missing? At which point it would have given you the option to divorce it and made you enter a certain well-defined set of keypresses in order to do so, if I'm not mistaken. Which means the shows that were partially recorded on the expander are gone.


----------



## Dr_Diablo

unitron said:


> This is a terrible time to be hard drive shopping, especially if you're somewhat financially constrained.
> 
> It may be a case not so much of what should you get as what can you find.
> 
> Have you taken the expander apart and tested the actual drive inside with the manufacturer's diagnostic software?
> 
> Are you sure it isn't just the eSATA cable gone bad, as has happened to so many people with external drives?


It could be an cable gone bad, or in my case it was the cable card went south, which I had replaced this week...

a lot cheaper then replacing the drive


----------



## filmbuddy

I too am looking for a 1 TB drive to upgrade my TCD652160 (TivoHD). I originally bought a WD10EVDS through an Amazon seller, but was sent the wrong item and I don't think they'll have a replacement. I chose the WD10EVDS over the EARS because it is supposedly a better hard drive for DVR use. 

Should I grab a WD10EARS or get the newer model the WD10EARX? Or is there a comparable model to the WD10EVDS?

I know I'm screwed when it comes to the prices (I see they are more than double what they were selling for a few months ago), but I really want to get one now. Thanks.


----------



## unitron

filmbuddy said:


> I too am looking for a 1 TB drive to upgrade my TCD652160 (TivoHD). I originally bought a WD10EVDS through an Amazon seller, but was sent the wrong item and I don't think they'll have a replacement. I chose the WD10EVDS over the EARS because it is supposedly a better hard drive for DVR use.
> 
> Should I grab a WD10EARS or get the newer model the WD10EARX? Or is there a comparable model to the WD10EVDS?
> 
> I know I'm screwed when it comes to the prices (I see they are more than double what they were selling for a few months ago), but I really want to get one now. Thanks.


What did that seller send you, and was it new and unopened?

And do you still have it?


----------



## filmbuddy

unitron said:


> What did that seller send you, and was it new and unopened?
> 
> And do you still have it?


I had purchased it through Amazon, the seller was Warehouse Deals, Inc. (able to use Amazon Prime). The condition was Used-Like New, which to my understanding was that it was basically new with the shrinkwrap removed, so they are unable to sell it new.

There was no original box. It came to me in a plain brown box. The model was WD5000AVDS, so it was a 500 GB model.

I talked with an Amazon customer service agent who will be contacting the seller on my behalf and he'll call me Monday morning to let me know if they have the actual WD10EVDS, and if they do, I'll get it, if not, I'll get a refund... but then I will still need to purchase a 1 TB drive. *EDIT* I just got an e-mail stating that due to changing inventories it cannot be replaced. So, it looks like I do need to purchase a new one. Suggestions... WD10EARS, WD10EARX, something else?

I'm just glad that there really isn't any new episodes of TV shows on for the next few weeks.


----------



## unitron

filmbuddy said:


> I had purchased it through Amazon, the seller was Warehouse Deals, Inc. (able to use Amazon Prime). The condition was Used-Like New, which to my understanding was that it was basically new with the shrinkwrap removed, so they are unable to sell it new.
> 
> There was no original box. It came to me in a plain brown box. The model was WD5000AVDS, so it was a 500 GB model.
> 
> I talked with an Amazon customer service agent who will be contacting the seller on my behalf and he'll call me Monday morning to let me know if they have the actual WD10EVDS, and if they do, I'll get it, if not, I'll get a refund... but then I will still need to purchase a 1 TB drive. Suggestions?
> 
> I'm just glad that there really isn't any new TV shows on for the next few weeks.


I really despise incompetent Amazon sellers.

Under those circumstances I'd have no confidence in either the drive, or a seller that can't tell a 500GB drive from a 1TB drive, or anything else they're selling.

Be sure everybody involved understands that you're done paying any shipping, and that if they don't have the product for which you've already paid, you get the cost and the cost of shipping refunded to you.

Also tell them if they want their 500GB drive back, to make an appointment to drop by and pick it up. Otherwise, they need to cover the cost to ship it back to them, and should be grateful that you're willing to go to the trouble of doing so.

Perhaps tomorrow morning's sale circulars will have a reasonable deal.

What part of the country are you in?


----------



## filmbuddy

unitron said:


> I really despise incompetent Amazon sellers.
> 
> Under those circumstances I'd have no confidence in either the drive, or a seller that can't tell a 500GB drive from a 1TB drive, or anything else they're selling.
> 
> Be sure everybody involved understands that you're done paying any shipping, and that if they don't have the product for which you've already paid, you get the cost and the cost of shipping refunded to you.
> 
> Also tell them if they want their 500GB drive back, to make an appointment to drop by and pick it up. Otherwise, they need to cover the cost to ship it back to them, and should be grateful that you're willing to go to the trouble of doing so.
> 
> Perhaps tomorrow morning's sale circulars will have a reasonable deal.
> 
> What part of the country are you in?


For the most part, they have a favorable rating, guess I just got lucky . Since I have Amazon Prime, it was free 2-day shipping. I already received a return mailing label and was notified I will be credited in full within 2 to 3 business days.

I live on Long Island, NY. I will definitely look at tomorrow's circulars, but, what 1 TB hard drives should I be looking for??? If there's nothing of note in the circulars, I have no problem ordering from Amazon directly (even though I pay sales tax with them), but I'm not sure what drive to get... WD10EARS, WD10EARX (which has a SATA 6 Gb/s interface... don't know if that could be a problem).


----------



## unitron

filmbuddy said:


> For the most part, they have a favorable rating, guess I just got lucky . Since I have Amazon Prime, it was free 2-day shipping. I already received a return mailing label and was notified I will be credited in full within 2 to 3 business days.
> 
> I live on Long Island, NY. I will definitely look at tomorrow's circulars, but, what 1 TB hard drives should I be looking for??? If there's nothing of note in the circulars, I have no problem ordering from Amazon directly (even though I pay sales tax with them), but I'm not sure what drive to get... WD10EARS, WD10EARX (which has a SATA 6 Gb/s interface... don't know if that could be a problem).


At this point you sort of look for whatever's available unless you've got money to burn, in which case you should get a 1TB and a 2TB, restore to the 1TB, and use jmfs to copy and expand to the 2TB.

The original 160GB drive is only 1.5Gb/s, and only has 8MB of cache, so except for the 160GB part, you don't need anything better.

The EACS, EADS, or EARS models should all work fine after disabling Intellipark.

If you can find a deal on a WD Elements external and take the drive out of that it would probably be perfectly useable in an HD.

Unfortunately Target already had a closeout on them.

I'll try to get an early morning look at who's got what for how much and let you know if there's anything worth going for.


----------



## filmbuddy

unitron said:


> At this point you sort of look for whatever's available unless you've got money to burn, in which case you should get a 1TB and a 2TB, restore to the 1TB, and use jmfs to copy and expand to the 2TB.


I'm not a novice, although I haven't done this before, but I'm not exactly sure what you mean. I was planning on using the WinMFS method to upgrade my Tivo. I already have the truncated backup on my desktop. I was in the process of going to restore it to the "new" drive using WinMFS, when I noticed that it was showing a 500 GB instead of 1 TB. At that point, I stopped.



unitron said:


> If you can find a deal on a WD Elements external and take the drive out of that it would probably be perfectly useable in an HD.


I didn't even realize that was an option. Is it hard to remove the actual hard drive from the casing?



unitron said:


> I'll try to get an early morning look at who's got what for how much and let you know if there's anything worth going for.


Thanks man.


----------



## unitron

filmbuddy said:


> I'm not a novice, although I haven't done this before, but I'm not exactly sure what you mean. I was planning on using the WinMFS method to upgrade my Tivo. I already have the truncated backup on my desktop. I was in the process of going to restore it to the "new" drive using WinMFS, when I noticed that it was showing a 500 GB instead of 1 TB. At that point, I stopped.
> 
> I didn't even realize that was an option. Is it hard to remove the actual hard drive from the casing?
> 
> Thanks man.


What you do is restore to the 1TB drive (my recommendation would be to increase the size of the swap partition when you do) with WinMFS.

Then you let WinMFS expand (which it does by adding another MFS pair).

This should use all of the space on the 1TB without any left over to become an "Apple Free" partition.

At that point you'll have 15 partitions.

Then you use jmfs to copy to a 2TB and add a single MFS partition, which will be the 16th partition, and 16 is all you can have on a single drive.

Somewhere around here I already linked to a youtube of someone showing how to open an Elements case without having to use a chainsaw.

Note that I'm talking about a plain WD Elements external with a 3.5" drive inside. There are some variations called Elements this or that which are not what you'd want.


----------



## unitron

Soapm said:


> You understood where I was going even though I did flub the technical details. If you get it to work on say a 1TB drive, can you upload a truncated copy so I can restore and expand it on to my 2TB?


Okay I did it, overwriting partitions 2 though 9, and it worked (or appears to in a short test), but instead of the regular HD opening video (the TiVo guy popping in and out of old movies), I get the THX intro video, and there's something in guided setup about audio that I've never seen previously, so I'm getting ready to try it again, but also overwriting MFS partitions 10 and 12 (which are the same size on both HD and HD XL partition maps, 11 and 13 are where the XL's extra 840GB get used up).


----------



## Soapm

unitron said:


> Okay I did it, overwriting partitions 2 though 9, and it worked (or appears to in a short test), but instead of the regular HD opening video (the TiVo guy popping in and out of old movies), I get the THX intro video, and there's something in guided setup about audio that I've never seen previously, so I'm getting ready to try it again, but also overwriting MFS partitions 10 and 12 (which are the same size on both HD and HD XL partition maps, 11 and 13 are where the XL's extra 840GB get used up).


This is great news... Is that THX image uploaded somewhere?

Thanks for taking the time to experiment...


----------



## unitron

Soapm said:


> This is great news... Is that THX image uploaded somewhere?
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to experiment...


It's not really a THX image, not after I overwrite the HD XL partitions with the regular HD partitions.

I'm sure it hasn't turned my HD into a fully functional and THX compliant HD XL.

If you actually need a TCD658000 image, I can do that.

It'll be set to boot to Guided Setup, and, of course, it'll need to be used in an HD XL to actually work properly.

If you want a TCD648160 image I can do that and tell you how to use it to fill up a 1TB drive with only 15 partitions and no leftover space so that in the future you can copy that 1TB to a 2TB with jmfs and then use jmfs to expand into the extra 1TB with a single MFS partition.

If for some reason you want to live dangerously and have an HD XL "footprint" on a 1TB drive, but with partitions 2-9 copied over from a regular HD, and have the THX intro video instead of the regular HD "TiVo guy riding in the car with Cary Grant in North by Northwest" one, I can do that, but I can't guarantee it doesn't blow up in your face at some point in the future.

Currently I'm trying the HD XL footprint on a 1TB with the HD partitions 2-9, as well as 10 and 12, overwritten on it, and after it got into a reboot loop I kickstart 58'ed it, so now it's been in a GSOD and reboot loop for at least 3 hours, so I'm declaring that a failure.

Going back and re-reading your previous, I gather you want to be able to restore an image directly to a 2TB with WinMFS that will give you 14 partitions and 1TB of leftover space in which WinMFS can create two more MFS partitions for the maximum allowable per single drive of 16.

In other words, you don't have a 1TB drive handy to act as a temporary middleman.

I'm not sure if I can trick WinMFS into making a truncated backup that restores with HD software but an HD XL footprint or not.

Let me give it a try and see what happens.


----------



## unitron

filmbuddy said:


> I'm not a novice, although I haven't done this before, but I'm not exactly sure what you mean. I was planning on using the WinMFS method to upgrade my Tivo. I already have the truncated backup on my desktop. I was in the process of going to restore it to the "new" drive using WinMFS, when I noticed that it was showing a 500 GB instead of 1 TB. At that point, I stopped.
> 
> I didn't even realize that was an option. Is it hard to remove the actual hard drive from the casing?
> 
> Thanks man.


Target, Staples, Best Buy, OfficeMax, Office Depot, pretty much zipola.

It looks like the only things close to deals are a 1.5TB Seagate TSD-1500AS3, which is a Seagate ST1500DL003 Barracuda Green, for $99.99 *in store only* at CompUSA

or

a Western Digital Elements 2TB Desktop External Hard Drive WDBAAU0020HBK-NESN

for $109.99 with free shipping at newegg (you have to put it in the cart to see the price), which is less than they want for the 1TB and 1.5TB versions.

Of course that price is at least $20 more than Target wanted week before last when they were closing them out.

There are some other brand external drives, where the brand is somebody like iomega or Maxell, which means who knows what's inside them, with slightly lower than market average prices, at, if I recall, Radio Shack and OfficeMax, but as I say, who knows what brand or specs drive is inside (and of course once you open the enclosure, bye-bye warranty).

If the 160GB drive in your HD doesn't have to be replaced right away, you might want to hold off, see what happens with Amazon*, and see what's on sale after Christmas.

Right now the 1TBs in general seem to be going for almost as much as 1.5s and 2s.

*Just saw your edit, so you're screwed on that front.

I also just checked J&R, nothing exciting there.


----------



## filmbuddy

unitron said:


> If the 160GB drive in your HD doesn't have to be replaced right away, you might want to hold off, see what happens with Amazon*, and see what's on sale after Christmas.


Decisions, decisions. Well, I did say that for the most part there aren't any new episodes of shows on for the next couple of weeks, so, I can probably wait. Does anyone know if traditionally hard drives go on sale post-Christmas? Or does the Thailand situation make that moot?


----------



## unitron

filmbuddy said:


> Decisions, decisions. Well, I did say that for the most part there aren't any new episodes of shows on for the next couple of weeks, so, I can probably wait. Does anyone know if traditionally hard drives go on sale post-Christmas? Or does the Thailand situation make that moot?


I think the Thailand thing means we mere mortals won't know in advance.


----------



## filmbuddy

If I can get a WD10EURS, brand new, factory sealed for $120, should I?


----------



## Soapm

unitron said:


> If for some reason you want to live dangerously and have an HD XL "footprint" on a 1TB drive, but with partitions 2-9 copied over from a regular HD, and have the THX intro video instead of the regular HD "TiVo guy riding in the car with Cary Grant in North by Northwest" one, I can do that, but I can't guarantee it doesn't blow up in your face at some point in the future.


I will take any and all of the images you want to share since living dangerously fits my "bull in a china shop" approach to a T. However, I will say that I am less than 1TB of free space on the 2TB that I manually hacked instead of using any of the scripts. I think that's the furthest I've ever gotten it before the 20 minute reboots start up.



unitron said:


> Going back and re-reading your previous, I gather you want to be able to restore an image directly to a 2TB with WinMFS that will give you 14 partitions and 1TB of leftover space in which WinMFS can create two more MFS partitions for the maximum allowable per single drive of 16.


I meant what you did and not what I said... LOL

Glad you understood...

Just curious, what's the difference in the partition tables between the XL and the HD? Were you by chance able to increase the swap partition? Can you post them? I'm mainly interested in the MFS partitions 10 and above...


----------



## Soapm

filmbuddy said:


> If I can get a WD10EURS, brand new, factory sealed for $120, should I?


Just depends how bad you want it. That's high for a 1TB but current economic conditions may make it unavoidable...


----------



## Soapm

unitron said:


> I think the Thailand thing means we mere mortals won't know in advance.


Frankly, I think the 1% is gouging us the 99% and just using Thailand and any other excuse they can as a way to pocket more profit...

That's my $00.02.


----------



## Soapm

filmbuddy said:


> I didn't even realize that was an option. Is it hard to remove the actual hard drive from the casing?.


Just depends if you want the case or not. My 2TB came out of one of these http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148503 but it was $69 with a $10 rebate at the time. Once I got it apart I realized I could have gotten it out without destroying the case but I did save the USB connection stuff and use it as a temp SDA connection...


----------



## unitron

filmbuddy said:


> If I can get a WD10EURS, brand new, factory sealed for $120, should I?


If you can see through the tears at having to pay that much well enough to write the check, feel free to do your part to stimulate the economy.

Actually, that's probably not all that bad a price for that drive under current conditions, and cheaper than a lot of other 1TB drives right now.

Be sure to run wdidle3 to disable Intellipark, and run WD's diagnostic software long test on the drive as well before putting your faith in it.


----------



## unitron

Soapm said:


> I will take any and all of the images you want to share since living dangerously fits my "bull in a china shop" approach to a T. However, I will say that I am less than 1TB of free space on the 2TB that I manually hacked instead of using any of the scripts. I think that's the furthest I've ever gotten it before the 20 minute reboots start up.
> 
> I meant what you did and not what I said... LOL
> 
> Glad you understood...
> 
> Just curious, what's the difference in the partition tables between the XL and the HD? Were you by chance able to increase the swap partition? Can you post them? I'm mainly interested in the MFS partitions 10 and above...


This is the 160GB HD

________________________________________________________________
Mfsinfo (Drive 2)

Boot Page
Boot Page: root=/dev/hda4
Active Boot Partition: 3 Active Root Partition: 4
Backup Boot Partition: 6 Backup Root Partition: 7

MFS Super Header
state=0 magic=ebbafeed
devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13
zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=310728704

Zone Maps
Z0:	type=0
map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=589822
next_map_start=263266 next_map_size=6 next_backup_map_start=589816
zone_first=1122 zone_last=263265 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=7a877be9 logstamp=8742162 num_bitmap=1
Z1:	type=2
map_start=263266 map_size=6 backup_map_start=589816
next_map_start=263272 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589782
zone_first=589824 zone_last=138215423 zone_size=137625600 min(chunk)=20480
free=136888320 checksum=5bfaae23 logstamp=8742203 num_bitmap=14
Z2:	type=1
map_start=263272 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589782
next_map_start=138219520 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=138809343
zone_first=263306 zone_last=589777 zone_size=326472 min(chunk)=8
free=253712 checksum=fde76f6f logstamp=8742208 num_bitmap=17
Z3:	type=0
map_start=138219520 map_size=1 backup_map_start=138809343
next_map_start=138481665 next_map_size=10 next_backup_map_start=138809333
zone_first=138219521 zone_last=138481664 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=5ec29529 logstamp=8742162 num_bitmap=1
Z4:	type=2
map_start=138481665 map_size=10 backup_map_start=138809333
next_map_start=138481675 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=138809299
zone_first=138809344 zone_last=310718463 zone_size=171909120 min(chunk)=20480
free=171745280 checksum=8fa29e06 logstamp=8742203 num_bitmap=15
Z5:	type=1
map_start=138481675 map_size=34 backup_map_start=138809299
next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=-6148914691236517206
zone_first=138481709 zone_last=138809292 zone_size=327584 min(chunk)=8
free=320560 checksum=83dd7669 logstamp=8742162 num_bitmap=17

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2  Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)

Total SA SD Hours: 165	Total DTV SD Hours: 144	100 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-652	Tivo Model: TCD652160

________________________________________________________________

This is the 1TB HD XL

________________________________________________________________

Mfsinfo (Drive 1)

Boot Page
Boot Page: root=/dev/hda7
Active Boot Partition: 6 Active Root Partition: 7
Backup Boot Partition: 3 Backup Root Partition: 4

MFS Super Header
state=0 magic=ebbafeed
devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13
zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=1951672320

Zone Maps
Z0:	type=0
map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=589822
next_map_start=263266 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589788
zone_first=1122 zone_last=263265 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=76b56949 logstamp=10094444 num_bitmap=1
Z1:	type=2
map_start=263266 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589788
next_map_start=263300 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589754
zone_first=589824 zone_last=876642303 zone_size=876052480 min(chunk)=20480
free=873553920 checksum=5f0a755e logstamp=10094507 num_bitmap=17
Z2:	type=1
map_start=263300 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589754
next_map_start=876644352 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=877234175
zone_first=263334 zone_last=589749 zone_size=326416 min(chunk)=8
free=252568 checksum=9215ef38 logstamp=10094507 num_bitmap=17
Z3:	type=0
map_start=876644352 map_size=1 backup_map_start=877234175
next_map_start=876906497 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=877234141
zone_first=876644353 zone_last=876906496 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=37fdfbf6 logstamp=10094444 num_bitmap=1
Z4:	type=2
map_start=876906497 map_size=34 backup_map_start=877234141
next_map_start=876906531 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=877234107
zone_first=877234176 zone_last=1951655935 zone_size=1074421760 min(chunk)=20480
free=1072168960 checksum=4ce37ff6 logstamp=10094507 num_bitmap=17
Z5:	type=1
map_start=876906531 map_size=34 backup_map_start=877234107
next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=-6148914691236517206
zone_first=876906565 zone_last=877234100 zone_size=327536 min(chunk)=8
free=321616 checksum=e67eef18 logstamp=10094444 num_bitmap=17

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected]( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected]( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected]( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected]( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected]( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected]( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected]( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected]( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected]( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected]( 417.7G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected]( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 512.3G)

Total SA SD Hours: 1040	Total DTV SD Hours: 908	100 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-658	Tivo Model: TCD658000

________________________________________________________________

Overwriting the XL's partitions 2-9 with the ones from the HD (after using WinMFS to copy and expand to a 2TB drive) seems to work, although sys info still shows the software version as being the 658 one, and not the 652 one.

I'm guessing if there ever were a software update for the HD and HD XL the results would be...unpredictable...but probably not good.

Overwriting partitions 10 and 12 breaks something, and mfsinfo (in MFS Live) reports something about zones or volume headers instead of what I wanted to see, and I don't know if kickstart/GSOD is unable to fix it, or unable to fix it because of the swap only being 128MB.

I guess my next experiment will be restoring, via WinMFS, the 658 image directly to the 2TB while expanding the swap, and then letting WinMFS expand by adding partitions 14 and 15, and then overwriting 2-9, and making sure that works, and then overwriting 10 and 12 and seeing if it can fix itself.

I'll try to copy and post the 2TB partition map next time I take the drive out of the TiVo.


----------



## filmbuddy

unitron said:


> If you can see through the tears at having to pay that much well enough to write the check, feel free to do your part to stimulate the economy.
> 
> Actually, that's probably not all that bad a price for that drive under current conditions, and cheaper than a lot of other 1TB drives right now.
> 
> Be sure to run wdidle3 to disable Intellipark, and run WD's diagnostic software long test on the drive as well before putting your faith in it.


Yeah, the way I see it is that I had actually spent more money for the WD10EVS, but I told you how that turned out, so, I see this as a bargain.

I will definitely run wdidle3 to disable Intellipark, but I read somewhere else that the Advanced Format feature could could potentially cause problems with TiVo's earlier than the TiVo Premiere. The reason for this is that Advanced Format needs to be supported by the underlying operating system and the older TiVo Series 3 and TiVo HD do not have new enough Linux Kernels to support it. One solution is to make a physical jumper setting on the drive before installation to turn off advanced format and put the drive in Windows XP compatibility mode. On EURS drives this is pins 7 and 8. Is this something I will need to do since I have a Tivo HD (TCD 652160)?


----------



## unitron

filmbuddy said:


> Yeah, the way I see it is that I had actually spent more money for the WD10EVS, but I told you how that turned out, so, I see this as a bargain.
> 
> I will definitely run wdidle3 to disable Intellipark, but I read somewhere else that the Advanced Format feature could could potentially cause problems with TiVo's earlier than the TiVo Premiere. The reason for this is that Advanced Format needs to be supported by the underlying operating system and the older TiVo Series 3 and TiVo HD do not have new enough Linux Kernels to support it. One solution is to make a physical jumper setting on the drive before installation to turn off advanced format and put the drive in Windows XP compatibility mode. On EURS drives this is pins 7 and 8. Is this something I will need to do since I have a Tivo HD (TCD 652160)?


The WD20EARS is a 4K drive (sector size 4096 bytes instead of traditional 512, i.e., "advanced format") and lots of people have used them on S3 HDs and HD XLs without problems once they disable Intellipark, so you shouldn't need to jumper it, I don't think.

Go back up this thread about 6 to 12 months and start reading and you'll find some discussion of it.


----------



## Soapm

XL...



Code:


9 Ext2 /var [email protected]( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected]( 288.0M)
[B]11 MFS MFS media region [email protected]( 417.7G)[/B]
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected]( 288.0M)
[B]13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 512.3G)[/B]

HD...



Code:


10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
[B]11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)[/B]
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
[B]13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)[/B]

Those large partitions on the CL image leaves far less real estate for the expanded partition. I will definitely explore or try and duplicate your success if the 20 minute reboots return...

Heck, I'm off this week, I may just do it anyway... Just because I can (or you can that is)...


----------



## unitron

Soapm said:


> XL...
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 9 Ext2 /var [email protected]( 256.0M)
> 10 MFS MFS application region [email protected]( 288.0M)
> [B]11 MFS MFS media region [email protected]( 417.7G)[/B]
> 12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected]( 288.0M)
> [B]13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 512.3G)[/B]
> 
> HD...
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> [B]11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)[/B]
> 12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> [B]13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)[/B]
> 
> Those large partitions on the CL image leaves far less real estate for the expanded partition. I will definitely explore or try and duplicate your success if the 20 minute reboots return...
> 
> Heck, I'm off this week, I may just do it anyway... Just because I can (or you can that is)...


CL image?

Craigslist?


----------



## Soapm

unitron said:


> CL image?
> 
> Craigslist?


You'd be board without all my typo's. This time at least the C and next to the X. I should get a "get out of jail free" card for being that close...


----------



## unitron

Okay, here's the WinMFS mfsinfo result for a 2Tb where I restored a TCD658000 (S3 HD XL) image with WinMFS, specifying 1024 for the swap size, and expanding, and then rebooting into MFS Live and using dd_rescue to overwrite partitions 2-7 and 9 with the same partitions from an HD (TCD652160) drive. 

(partiton 8 is the swap, which is a different size since I specified that 1024, so we don't overwrite that one)


________________________________________________________________



Mfsinfo (Drive 1)

Boot Page
Boot Page: root=/dev/hda7
Active Boot Partition: 6 Active Root Partition: 7
Backup Boot Partition: 3 Backup Root Partition: 4

MFS Super Header
state=0 magic=ebbafeed
devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13 /dev/hda14 /dev/hda15
zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=3903336448

Zone Maps
Z0:	type=0
map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=589822
next_map_start=263266 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589788
zone_first=1122 zone_last=263265 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=76b56949 logstamp=10094444 num_bitmap=1
Z1:	type=2
map_start=263266 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589788
next_map_start=263300 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589754
zone_first=589824 zone_last=876642303 zone_size=876052480 min(chunk)=20480
free=873553920 checksum=5f0a755e logstamp=10094507 num_bitmap=17
Z2:	type=1
map_start=263300 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589754
next_map_start=876644352 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=877234175
zone_first=263334 zone_last=589749 zone_size=326416 min(chunk)=8
free=252568 checksum=9215ef38 logstamp=10094507 num_bitmap=17
Z3:	type=0
map_start=876644352 map_size=1 backup_map_start=877234175
next_map_start=876906497 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=877234141
zone_first=876644353 zone_last=876906496 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=37fdfbf6 logstamp=10094444 num_bitmap=1
Z4:	type=2
map_start=876906497 map_size=34 backup_map_start=877234141
next_map_start=876906531 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=877234107
zone_first=877234176 zone_last=1951655935 zone_size=1074421760 min(chunk)=20480
free=1072168960 checksum=4ce37ff6 logstamp=10094507 num_bitmap=17
Z5:	type=1
map_start=876906531 map_size=34 backup_map_start=877234107
next_map_start=1951672320 next_map_size=67 next_backup_map_start=1951674301
zone_first=876906565 zone_last=877234100 zone_size=327536 min(chunk)=8
free=321616 checksum=3bffbd29 logstamp=10094444 num_bitmap=17
Z6:	type=2
map_start=1951672320 map_size=67 backup_map_start=1951674301
next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=0
zone_first=1951674368 zone_last=3903336447 zone_size=1951662080 min(chunk)=20480
free=1951662080 checksum=f6fa4f logstamp=0 num_bitmap=18

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected]( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected]( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected]( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected]( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected]( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected]( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected]( 1.0G)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected]( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected]( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected]( 417.7G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected]( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 107443880[email protected] ( 512.3G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected]( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected]( 930.6G)

Total SA SD Hours: 2082	Total DTV SD Hours: 1817	100 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-658	Tivo Model: TCD658000


_________________________________________________________________



Notice that it still thinks it's an XL drive?

This setup seems to work. It downloads guide data, can transfer to computer via TiVo Desktop, can record and play back.

But in sys info it still shows the XL version of the software.

Don't know if that'll cause trouble down the road or not.

If there are no more updates for the S3 platform, then probably not.

Also, the HD intro animation is replaced by the THX deal.

Now, when I take this drive set up this way and overwrite partitions 10 and 12 with the same from the HD drive, WinMFS mfsinfo says not a TiVo drive, MFS Live mfsinfo says "zone map checksum error", and when I tried to boot it I got the welcome screen, few more minutes screen, reboot, lather, rinse, repeat routine. Tried kickstart 58, got the expected GSOD, let it run for almost 4 hours, still in a reboot loop.

So I'm putting the original upgrade drive, a 2TB but strictly HD and no XL, back in and putting the cover back on and calling the experiment over.

Hybrid image available by request in a day or two when I get it uploaded.

Soapm, I'll PM you when it's ready to download with the link.


----------



## Soapm

unitron said:


> So I'm putting the original upgrade drive, a 2TB but strictly HD and no XL, back in and putting the cover back on and calling the experiment over.


We sure appreciate your efforts... This is really good to know. It's a shame because I'm down to 800gb of free space with no reboots but man is this tempting me... Can you also include the original 658 image for download or the link you used?

I wonder how Tivo see's the Tivo? I wonder if we started with an older 652 image would Tivo send the update 11.0k package which if they do should install and correct the software version and Tivo model...

If not, this would cause Tivo to always see your device as the wrong device. I don't know if that's a big deal with chances of a future upgrade little to none???



> Total SA SD Hours: 2082 Total DTV SD Hours: 1817 100 % Free
> Software: 11.0k-01-2-658 Tivo Model: TCD658000


----------



## unitron

Soapm said:


> We sure appreciate your efforts... This is really good to know. It's a shame because I'm down to 800gb of free space with no reboots but man is this tempting me... Can you also include the original 658 image for download or the link you used?
> 
> I wonder how Tivo see's the Tivo? I wonder if we started with an older 652 image would Tivo send the update 11.0k package which if they do should install and correct the software version and Tivo model...
> 
> If not, this would cause Tivo to always see your device as the wrong device. I don't know if that's a big deal with chances of a future upgrade little to none???


Over on "the other site" there's a thread entitled "Load THD slices and loopsets into a THDXL image to convert it to a true THD image? ".

Most of it's over my head, but apparently people with more knowledge and experience than I have been working on variations of this idea, so it would seem I've been re-inventing the wheel.

But I'm learning a little about wheel making in the process.

Okay, I've got an XL image that starts you in Guided Setup and an image made from a 2TB where I restored from the first one but with a 1GB (1024) swap size and expanded and overwrote partitions 2-7 and 9 from an HD drive.

I'm copying them from computer A to computer B, and will then upload them from computer B to somewhere on teh intarwebs and will PM you when that's done.


----------



## philt56

Planning to purchase a WD10EARX to upgrade my Tivo HD. Is this the newest recommended drive to use? I know I have to disable the Intellipark, anything else? Do I need to change any jumpers on the drive for any reason? Are there any other drives that are considered better? 

My flaky expander finally came back to life after sitting unplugged for a couple weeks so I'm copying all the recordings off it via tivo desktop. Then I will unmarry the expander and make sure the main unit is stable,

thanks all!


----------



## electricjer

I picked up one of the WD Elements external drives from Target to replace a failing drive in my Tivo HD, but can seem to get it to quiet down. They only had a 1.5TB drive and when I opened it up there was a Caviar Black WD1502FAE. I had no problems loading it up and Tivo is now reporting 198 HD hours. 

I have noticed that the drive is loud enough that I can hear a periodic seeking 'purring' noise from across the room when it is recording. There is no clicking so I don't think that the drive is failing. SMART scan also looked good. I tried to adjust the AAM using HDDScan while having the drive hooked up to my laptop via an esata external enclosure, but it said that AAM wasn't supported. I also tried ftool_211 but couldn't get it to find the drive after the boot. I am guessing that there is a problem with my laptop recognizing the drive since I thought that all WD drives supported AAM. I also put a jumper on the drive to limit it to 3 gb/s transfer speed with the hopes that it would quiet it down, but it isn't a noticeable difference.

Are there any other options to get a WD Caviar Black to be a little quieter?


----------



## dalmeida

Just toasted my internal 1TB Hitachi CinemaStar HCS721010KLA330. Bumped it while it was running. I've got an external Deskstar and I can get another for about $50 more than the HITACHI Deskstar 7K1000.D HDS721010DLE630 sold by NewEgg,com. Is there a difference? Should I just pay the extra $ and get the HCS721010KLA332?


----------



## ThAbtO

The prices on hard drives are due to Thailand flooding and so there is a shortage.


----------



## unitron

dalmeida said:


> Just toasted my internal 1TB Hitachi CinemaStar HCS721010KLA330. Bumped it while it was running. I've got an external Deskstar and I can get another for about $50 more than the HITACHI Deskstar 7K1000.D HDS721010DLE630 sold by NewEgg,com. Is there a difference? Should I just pay the extra $ and get the HCS721010KLA332?


You must have bumped it pretty hard.

Have you checked to see if it's still under warranty?

The HCS721010KLA332 Googles up as fairly obscure, from whom would you be buying it?

If this is to go inside a TiVo, then with the HDS721010DLE630, you'd be paying for speed you don't need. 5400rpm drives are plenty fast for a TiVo and run cooler.

Which model number TiVo?

Is there also an external drive involved?

Have you looked around for any WD Caviar Green drives?


----------



## dalmeida

unitron said:


> You must have bumped it pretty hard.
> 
> Have you checked to see if it's still under warranty?
> 
> The HCS721010KLA332 Googles up as fairly obscure, from whom would you be buying it?
> 
> If this is to go inside a TiVo, then with the HDS721010DLE630, you'd be paying for speed you don't need. 5400rpm drives are plenty fast for a TiVo and run cooler.
> 
> Which model number TiVo?
> 
> Is there also an external drive involved?
> 
> Have you looked around for any WD Caviar Green drives?


Yeah I bumped it pretty good. The feet were stuck to the wood shelf in my 
equipment cabinet and I was trying to fish a BD out from under it. oops. All it does now is spin up to high speed and cyclic reboots.

I've owned this TiVo HD for 4 yrs and the 1TB disk in it I upgraded so no warranty.

I found a couple of sellers for the DeskStar on Amazon.

I previously had an external Hitachi CinemaStar HCS721010KLA330 which went bad after three years and I replaced it with a WD10EARS which are now equally obscure but still available. I had to eliminate the intellipark which probably made the "green" low power consumption claims moot. It's been working well in a powered external case in a closed equipment cabinet so I may just stick with that one or its replacement. Since these are unsupported drives I just wanted to follow what has worked well for others.


----------



## unitron

dalmeida said:


> Yeah I bumped it pretty good. The feet were stuck to the wood shelf in my
> equipment cabinet and I was trying to fish a BD out from under it. oops. All it does now is spin up to high speed and cyclic reboots.
> 
> I've owned this TiVo HD for 4 yrs and the 1TB disk in it I upgraded so no warranty.
> 
> I found a couple of sellers for the DeskStar on Amazon.
> 
> I previously had an external Hitachi CinemaStar HCS721010KLA330 which went bad after three years and I replaced it with a WD10EARS which are now equally obscure but still available. I had to eliminate the intellipark which probably made the "green" low power consumption claims moot. It's been working well in a powered external case in a closed equipment cabinet so I may just stick with that one or its replacement. Since these are unsupported drives I just wanted to follow what has worked well for others.


If you've had that HD (TCD652160) for over 3 years you can probably finagle $99 lifetime out of them if you're still on monthly.

I didn't think that model would accept any external drive except the specific Western Digital models endorsed by TiVo.

Or did you mean an original Series 3, the TCD648250?


----------



## dalmeida

unitron said:


> If you've had that HD (TCD652160) for over 3 years you can probably finagle $99 lifetime out of them if you're still on monthly.
> 
> I didn't think that model would accept any external drive except the specific Western Digital models endorsed by TiVo.
> 
> Or did you mean an original Series 3, the TCD648250?


I purchased the TiVo HD (TCD652160) w/lifetime through a TiVo employee friend of mine. It had a 160GB drive in it so I added the external drive a few weeks after I bought it. When the external drive failed I replaced it with the WD10EARS.

I ran some diagnostics on the failed drive and could find nothing wrong except some bad sectors. Since the Hitachi CinemaStar HCS721010KLA330 cost me $300 I didn't want to junk it so I re-purposed it for my internal drive replacement. Needless to say after the second failure I'm not keeping it any longer regardless whether it was my fault damaging the disk.


----------



## YZFdave

Wow this is a long thread! I've scanned through it and am still a little confused since there's a bunch of bunnytrails. 

I have a Tivo HD, my external drive is bad (I assume it's the drive and not the cable, but don't have a way to test and remarry). Either way, I want to simply replace the internal drive with a 1TB since my main drive is still working normally, and want to replace the drive while I still can backup and transfer. 

I see the original list, but it's a couple years old. Is there an updated list or can someone list off 3 or 4 drives that are recommended? I saw the WD10EURS for 160ish online, seems very expensive (yes, I saw about the flooding and high cost of the drives). 

Any other deals on other drives and where to purchase? I remember reading before when I replaced my drive years ago on an older tivo that you need certain types of drives because they're made for spinning all the time. Is that still the case? 

Thanks for your help!


----------



## ThreeSoFar

YZFdave said:


> Wow this is a long thread! I've scanned through it and am still a little confused since there's a bunch of bunnytrails.
> 
> I have a Tivo HD, my external drive is bad (I assume it's the drive and not the cable, but don't have a way to test and remarry). Either way, I want to simply replace the internal drive with a 1TB since my main drive is still working normally, and want to replace the drive while I still can backup and transfer.


You can backup the TiVo software, but I'm pretty sure your shows are toast due to being married to the now dead expander.



> I see the original list, but it's a couple years old. Is there an updated list or can someone list off 3 or 4 drives that are recommended? I saw the WD10EURS for 160ish online, seems very expensive (yes, I saw about the flooding and high cost of the drives).
> 
> Any other deals on other drives and where to purchase? I remember reading before when I replaced my drive years ago on an older tivo that you need certain types of drives because they're made for spinning all the time. Is that still the case?
> 
> Thanks for your help!


Newegg.com and Amazon are popular places to buy. Amazon's shipping is a bit more robust so may lead to fewer DOAs.

The WD15EARX and WD15EARS are both good. I see the latter at Amazon for $103 (same price as the WD10EARS, smaller by a third).


----------



## philt56

ThreeSoFar said:


> You can backup the TiVo software, but I'm pretty sure your shows are toast due to being married to the now dead expander.
> 
> You can still backup even if you aren't able to successfully unmarry the expander? I was lucky I was able to get my tivo with expander alive long enough to tranfer all my programs off it to my PC with tivo desktop,
> 
> I disconnected the expander and uplug the tivo and then when I plug it back I get the screen that says the expander is missing, hit clear, then 3 thumbs down and enter. The next screen says removing the expander (this will take awhile)... As sson as I get that screen, it reboots about 10 secs later (I assume it should have been longer...) and I get the whole sequence over again about the expander being missing.
> 
> Is my internal drive toast? Can I still copy the software off it and make a back up to put on a new drive?
> 
> thanks


----------



## unitron

philt56 said:


> ThreeSoFar said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can backup the TiVo software, but I'm pretty sure your shows are toast due to being married to the now dead expander.
> 
> You can still backup even if you aren't able to successfully unmarry the expander? I was lucky I was able to get my tivo with expander alive long enough to tranfer all my programs off it to my PC with tivo desktop,
> 
> I disconnected the expander and uplug the tivo and then when I plug it back I get the screen that says the expander is missing, hit clear, then 3 thumbs down and enter. The next screen says removing the expander (this will take awhile)... As sson as I get that screen, it reboots about 10 secs later (I assume it should have been longer...) and I get the whole sequence over again about the expander being missing.
> 
> Is my internal drive toast? Can I still copy the software off it and make a back up to put on a new drive?
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> 
> If you got everything off of your HD (TCD652160) that you wanted, open it up, take out the internal drive, hook it to a computer and run the manufacturer's diagnostics.
> 
> If I were you I'd take the drive out of the external enclosure, run the WD diagnostics on it, overwrite it with a fresh S3 HD image, expand, and use it as the internal. Assuming it's the 1TB version, and not the 500GB.
> 
> (unless you've got a spare 2TB drive laying around).
Click to expand...


----------



## philt56

unitron said:


> philt56 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you got everything off of your HD (TCD652160) that you wanted, open it up, take out the internal drive, hook it to a computer and run the manufacturer's diagnostics.
> 
> If I were you I'd take the drive out of the external enclosure, run the WD diagnostics on it, overwrite it with a fresh S3 HD image, expand, and use it as the internal. Assuming it's the 1TB version, and not the 500GB.
> 
> (unless you've got a spare 2TB drive laying around).
> 
> 
> 
> It's the 500G expander. I assumed the expander was the bad drive. When I ran the kickstart 54 at one point last month, the internal drive passed and the expander gave errors, it also never completed the diagnostics after like 12 hrs. The internal drive was a WD also. I opened the case just to check if the capacitors looked ok (they did to me).
> 
> So I shouldn't try to get the image from the old drive? How do I get a fresh HD image? Buty the dvd from dvrupgrade?
> 
> I was planning on getting a 1TB WD10EURS or WD10EARX from amazon. Is the EURS worth the extra $20 or so? Is it really better for tivos?
> 
> thanks for the help
Click to expand...


----------



## unitron

philt56 said:


> unitron said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's the 500G expander. I assumed the expander was the bad drive. When I ran the kickstart 54 at one point last month, the internal drive passed and the expander gave errors, it also never completed the diagnostics after like 12 hrs. The internal drive was a WD also. I opened the case just to check if the capacitors looked ok (they did to me).
> 
> So I shouldn't try to get the image from the old drive? How do I get a fresh HD image? Buty the dvd from dvrupgrade?
> 
> thanks for the help
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a TCD652160 image.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8831301#post8831301
> 
> If you have everything (recorded show-wise) rescued from the internal/external combination, then what's left on your internal drive of interest would be cable card pairings, season passes, thumbs ratings.
> 
> Try the divorce with the expander attached.
> 
> Let me know if that succeeds.
Click to expand...


----------



## philt56

unitron said:


> philt56 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a TCD652160 image.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8831301#post8831301
> 
> If you have everything (recorded show-wise) rescued from the internal/external combination, then what's left on your internal drive of interest would be cable card pairings, season passes, thumbs ratings.
> 
> Try the divorce with the expander attached.
> 
> Let me know if that succeeds.
> 
> 
> 
> How do you do a divorce with it attached?
Click to expand...


----------



## unitron

philt56 said:


> unitron said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you do a divorce with it attached?
> 
> 
> 
> All I know about external TiVo expanders is what I've read here and on another TiVo-centric site or three. I was under the impression there was something buried in the menu's somewhere that you could choose.
> 
> If you don't want to just overwrite your internal with my image, then boot it up with the expander attached and on, and run KS 58. Maybe that'll straighten things out enough that you can then get it to run divorce properly.
Click to expand...


----------



## dalmeida

ThreeSoFar said:


> You can backup the TiVo software, but I'm pretty sure your shows are toast due to being married to the now dead expander.
> 
> Newegg.com and Amazon are popular places to buy. Amazon's shipping is a bit more robust so may lead to fewer DOAs.
> 
> The WD15EARX and WD15EARS are both good. I see the latter at Amazon for $103 (same price as the WD10EARS, smaller by a third).


I thought anything larger than 1.1TB is wasted space for the TiVo HD?

I just bought yesterday a W10EARS at amazon for:

Items Ordered Price
1 of: Western Digital 1 TB Caviar Green SATA II 64 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Desktop Hard Drive WD10EARS [Personal Computers]
Condition: New
Sold by: Amazon.com LLC
$88.89
Amazon Prime: Two-Day Shipping is free


----------



## unitron

dalmeida said:


> I thought anything larger than 1.1TB is wasted space for the TiVo HD?
> 
> I just bought yesterday a W10EARS at amazon for:
> 
> Items Ordered Price
> 1 of: Western Digital 1 TB Caviar Green SATA II 64 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Desktop Hard Drive WD10EARS [Personal Computers]
> Condition: New
> Sold by: Amazon.com LLC
> $88.89
> Amazon Prime: Two-Day Shipping is free


Using jmfs you can put a 2TB in an HD or HD XL or Premiere or Premiere XL.

On an HD or HD XL you can't increase swap partition size unless you use an intermediary drive.

For example, I used WinMFS to copy the stock 160GB HD drive to a 1TB with a 1GB swap partition and then expanded, completely filling the drive, and then used jmfs to copy and expand to a 2TB.

Tried to do it with MFS Live, but that always left a little extra unpartitoned space on the 1TB, which jmfs saw as an Apple Free partition, and saw as the 16th partition, so that what it added was a 17th partition, on which the HD promptly choked--it saw it as an external that needed to be divorced, at the end of which process I had the same space used as if I had just installed the 1TB instead.


----------



## A J Ricaud

I don't know if this is a good deal or not, given the current prices for hard drives, but Newegg has "Western Digital Caviar Green WD20EARX 2TB 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive" for $139.95, free shipping, WITH PROMO CODE:
EMCJKKE22.


----------



## philt56

Has anyone copied with winMFS successfully a drive that was still married to an expander ? I had an 500Mb tivo expander hooked up and I started to get continuous reboots. Tried to disconnect the expander to divorce it and still just reboots and keeps saying the expander is not connected, the divorce never completes. I'm not worried about retaining recordings, I was able to copy them all with tivo desktop before the tivo went completely dead.

I know I can get a clean image to put on a new drive, but I would like to clone the existing internal HD to retain my cable card pairing. I think Comcast here in IL will insist they have to do a house call to reinstall it and charge me. (they don't allow self installs here)

I just got a new WD10EARX so I will try it in a few days when I have time, but just wondering if anyone else had success in this case? I'm worried that when I copy the drive, the new copy will still think it is still married to an expander?


----------



## philt56

I tried to run HDDScan 3.3 on my WD10EARX drive to adjust the AAM setting and it is said not supported. Is that true for this drive or is it because I was connected with a SATA-USB cable? The setting was allowed for the internal WD drive on my laptop.


----------



## unitron

philt56 said:


> I tried to run HDDScan 3.3 on my WD10EARX drive to adjust the AAM setting and it is said not supported. Is that true for this drive or is it because I was connected with a SATA-USB cable? The setting was allowed for the internal WD drive on my laptop.


I've seen others mention having to connect directly to the motherboard sata port to do low-level stuff like resettting AAM or changing the Intellipark settings, but I've also seen mention of some hard drives just not supporting resetting AAM at all.

I'm afraid you'll need to find someone who'll let you open up their desktop PC to find out for sure.

When you do, be sure to post the details here.


----------



## philt56

philt56 said:


> I tried to run HDDScan 3.3 on my WD10EARX drive to adjust the AAM setting and it is said not supported. Is that true for this drive or is it because I was connected with a SATA-USB cable? The setting was allowed for the internal WD drive on my laptop.


Will try again when i'm ready to turn Intellipark off on the drive.

I am having problem now with Winfms .... Tried connecting the original drive 2 different ways. 1) eSata cable to my desktop and powered by the connection on a sata-USB cable 2) just using the usb-Sata device completely.
Both times, I can select the drive with winfms, but when I try to do the truncated backup, after about 10 sec, I get the "program has stopped working" pop up. I'm running on a Vista machine, running winfms as admin and have UAC disabled. Any ideas??? If I do view->mfsinfo, it says not a tivo drive, but when I selected it, it shows all the info about the drive.

I can backup the bootpage and kernel, but the drive backyp never succeeds.

Ok, just hooked up the usb-sata to my win7 laptop and installed winfms there. I can select the drive fine. it says Tivo A drive: (USB WD WD16) but as soon as I run the backup, I immediately get the error "Not a Tivo Drive. Backup failed!"

When I was trying to run the tivo box with this drive, I was getting the GSOD repeated if I had the expander connected.

I ran Western Digital diagnostics on the drive and it found no problems.


----------



## unitron

philt56 said:


> Will try again when i'm ready to turn Intellipark off on the drive.
> 
> I am having problem now with Winfms .... Tried connecting the original drive 2 different ways. 1) eSata cable to my desktop and powered by the connection on a sata-USB cable 2) just using the usb-Sata device completely.
> Both times, I can select the drive with winfms, but when I try to do the truncated backup, after about 10 sec, I get the "program has stopped working" pop up. I'm running on a Vista machine, running winfms as admin and have UAC disabled. Any ideas??? If I do view->mfsinfo, it says not a tivo drive, but when I selected it, it shows all the info about the drive.
> 
> I can backup the bootpage and kernel, but the drive backyp never succeeds.
> 
> Ok, just hooked up the usb-sata to my win7 laptop and installed winfms there. I can select the drive fine. it says Tivo A drive: (USB WD WD16) but as soon as I run the backup, I immediately get the error "Not a Tivo Drive. Backup failed!"
> 
> When I was trying to run the tivo box with this drive, I was getting the GSOD repeated if I had the expander connected.
> 
> I ran Western Digital diagnostics on the drive and it found no problems.


You may need to Google up how to disassemble that external drive's enclosure, take the drive out, and hook both up straight to SATA ports on your desktop, and hook up the new drive that way as well, and tell WinMFS to copy from the original drive and the expander drive to the new drive.

It seems the inability to properly divorce is causing problems getting the original drive recognized as an unmarried one.


----------



## philt56

unitron said:


> You may need to Google up how to disassemble that external drive's enclosure, take the drive out, and hook both up straight to SATA ports on your desktop, and hook up the new drive that way as well, and tell WinMFS to copy from the original drive and the expander drive to the new drive.
> 
> It seems the inability to properly divorce is causing problems getting the original drive recognized as an unmarried one.


I'm not using anything from the old WD tivo expander. Have the original Tivo 160G HD drive and trying to back it up to a new WD10EARX internal drive I bought. I was just trying to backup the SW from the original drive.

If I took apart the expander, you think winfms knows how to read the original and the expander as if they are still married?

thanks for all the help; I really appreciate it!. I have a feeling, I'm just going to burn a new image onto the new drive and go from there.


----------



## unitron

philt56 said:


> I'm not using anything from the old WD tivo expander. Have the original Tivo 160G HD drive and trying to back it up to a new WD10EARX internal drive I bought. I was just trying to backup the SW from the original drive.
> 
> If I took apart the expander, you think winfms knows how to read the original and the expander as if they are still married?
> 
> thanks for all the help; I really appreciate it!. I have a feeling, I'm just going to burn a new image onto the new drive and go from there.


If you want to back up shows, you'll need both drives.

If you just want to back up stuff like cable card pairings, channel lineup, season passes, thumbs ratings, etc., it still looks like you'll need both drives.

Of course since we don't know how far the divorce process got before it failed, we can't be sure it would work even using both drives.

But if you tried it, perhaps the rest of us could learn something from your results.

Of course you know what they say about pioneers being the ones with all the arrows in their backs.


----------



## philt56

unitron said:


> If you want to back up shows, you'll need both drives.
> 
> If you just want to back up stuff like cable card pairings, channel lineup, season passes, thumbs ratings, etc., it still looks like you'll need both drives.
> 
> Of course since we don't know how far the divorce process got before it failed, we can't be sure it would work even using both drives.
> 
> But if you tried it, perhaps the rest of us could learn something from your results.
> 
> Of course you know what they say about pioneers being the ones with all the arrows in their backs.


Ok, call me a wimp  I just went with your HD image and downloaded it and installed on my new WD10EADX using winmfs. Everything went great other than the error 51 which I found required the clear and delete everything option to be executed. Funny it looks like my cable card still works after that completed. I think so since I was able to get Sportschannel HD, whch requires the digital preferred package.

But I REALLY appreciate you taking the time to answer all my posts!!

Here's some other things I encountered that may help others. 

when I tried to make the boot CD for wdidle3 from the iso file link, all I got were illegal instructions when it executedn on boot up. I used Nero ROM burning app so not sure if it was at fault?. So I ended up making a boot floppy and copied wdidle3.exe to it (from WD's download site). I realize floppies are a thing of the past but I still have one on my desktop.
 Please note that wdidle3 will update all WD drives on your SATA ports not just the tivo drive, so I accidentally set 4 extra drives (2 pairs of RAID 1). I went and disconnected the Tivo drive and then reran wdidle3 /r to restore them back to the default. Unfortunately I don't know what they were originally set to and whether this was appropriate to run on them, but it looks like ok for now. WD warns against running on RAID drives... So be careful when you do this! Looks like the WD10EARX works ok with it since the Tivo does restart properly.


----------



## unitron

philt56 said:


> Ok, call me a wimp  I just went with your HD image and downloaded it and installed on my new WD10EADX using winmfs. Everything went great other than the error 51 which I found required the clear and delete everything option to be executed. Funny it looks like my cable card still works after that completed. I think so since I was able to get Sportschannel HD, whch requires the digital preferred package.
> 
> But I REALLY appreciate you taking the time to answer all my posts!!
> 
> Here's some other things I encountered that may help others.
> 
> when I tried to make the boot CD for wdidle3 from the iso file link, all I got were illegal instructions when it executedn on boot up. I used Nero ROM burning app so not sure if it was at fault?. So I ended up making a boot floppy and copied wdidle3.exe to it (from WD's download site). I realize floppies are a thing of the past but I still have one on my desktop.
> Please note that wdidle3 will update all WD drives on your SATA ports not just the tivo drive, so I accidentally set 4 extra drives (2 pairs of RAID 1). I went and disconnected the Tivo drive and then reran wdidle3 /r to restore them back to the default. Unfortunately I don't know what they were originally set to and whether this was appropriate to run on them, but it looks like ok for now. WD warns against running on RAID drives... So be careful when you do this! Looks like the WD10EARX works ok with it since the Tivo does restart properly.


I'm no RAID authority, but it's probably better if Intellipark is disabled on RAID drives and any sleep mode left to the RAID hardware or software to impose.

I used Nero to burn my wdidle3 cd, so it can be done (although I think I got the .iso from a source other than WD), but every once in a while burns fail "just because".

My floppy drive philosphy is have one on any computer you've got with a floppy port, just in case, but avoid using it any more than absolutely necessary.


----------



## unitron

philt56 said:


> I'm not using anything from the old WD tivo expander. Have the original Tivo 160G HD drive and trying to back it up to a new WD10EARX internal drive I bought. I was just trying to backup the SW from the original drive.
> 
> If I took apart the expander, you think winfms knows how to read the original and the expander as if they are still married?
> 
> thanks for all the help; I really appreciate it!. I have a feeling, I'm just going to burn a new image onto the new drive and go from there.


Now that the pressure is off to get your TiVo up and running again, you could try taking the external drive out of the enclosure and hooking it and the original internal drive straight to a PC motherboard, and see if you can do a WinMFS or MFS Live backup from both and the rest of us might learn something from your experience.


----------



## philt56

Tried to connect the expander directly to the eSata port on my desktop. WD Lifeguard diagnostics tool didn't see the drive at all so either the drive is dead or the case (which happened to me on a MyBook I used for PC backups). So I will have to crack it to test the drive.

Just wondering... I have 2 other Tivos, a Premiere XL and HD XL and both see the Tivo HD in Now Playing as "Tivo Box" and "Tivo" respectively. If I look at System Info on the Tivo HD, the DVR name is "Tivo HD" which is what it was called on the old drive. Not sure if it remebered that somehow or got changed when I did an update from the Tivo web site for DVR preferences. But why aren't the other boxes seeing it by that name?
I also tried renaming it to "Tivo BR" and I haven't seen that take affect anywhere other than on the MyTivo web page, which does see things like Latest Recordings for the updated box.

Any ideas what's happening?.

Update: dvr name has changed to Tivo BR on the updated box. Other Tivos still call it "Tivo". Tivo Desktop does not see it at all when picking recordings to transfer.

Rebooted the updated Tivo and it now shows up on Tivo Desktop and the other Tivos see its new dvr name under Now Playing.


----------



## berryb

Without wading through hundreds of posts on the WD DVR Expander, can anyone refer me to a Post about reformatting the drive, before moving it to a new box?

I know that I had to do it one time myself, when DTV replaced my HR20 with a HR22. But I can no longer remember what I had to do!

As an owner of a brand new THR22-100 DTiVo, I'd like to move that Expander to the new TiVo.

Any Help will be gratefully appreciated! Bert Berry


----------



## andyw715

A J Ricaud said:


> I don't know if this is a good deal or not, given the current prices for hard drives, but Newegg has "Western Digital Caviar Green WD20EARX 2TB 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive" for $139.95, free shipping, WITH PROMO CODE:
> EMCJKKE22.


Just a note, this drive is now 109 at newegg.

Anyone know if thes SATA 6.0Gb/s drives would work ?


----------



## unitron

andyw715 said:


> Just a note, this drive is now 109 at newegg.
> 
> Anyone know if thes SATA 6.0Gb/s drives would work ?


Somewhere around here the other day someone was having trouble with a SATA and had to use a different one that could be jumpered down to 1.5Gb/s.

At least I think that's the way I remember it.

So, since a lot of the SATA TiVos came with 1.5 (so called SATA I ) drives, it's a question of whether the SATA controllers they use can handle autonegotiation or not (and I'm sure they're all old enough that the only choices are 1.5 and 3 ), and how far down the new drives can throttle themselves.

Overall I've seen more WD success stories (without regard to specific model) than the other brands.


----------



## mattack

andyw715 said:


> Just a note, this drive is now 109 at newegg.


+ $7.86 shipping.

I know that sounds like not much, but still.

Seems like drive prices are starting to come out of the stratosphere though.


----------



## Speed Daemon

berryb said:


> Without wading through hundreds of posts on the WD DVR Expander, can anyone refer me to a Post about reformatting the drive, before moving it to a new box?


The new box (another TiVo? A PC? Mac?) should be able to initialize, partition and format the WD DVR Expander using its own native utilities. IMHO that's the best way to do it IMHO, provided it works without problems.

If you are having problems, error messages etc., there are other things to do. So post them here, choose the reply that you like best and give it a shot. One trick that's safe for less technical users is to use a completely different platform (manufacturer's or 3rd party utility boot discs, MacOS, Linux etc.) to re-initialize the drive to its standards, then try the native utility on the target box again.

If all else fails, I'd plug it into one of my Linux boxes, determine it's device assignment (e.g. /dev/sdc) and `cat /dev/zero > /dev/sdc' being careful that it really is sd*c* in this example. DON'T ATTEMPT UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT ALL THAT MEANS!!! If that doesn't let the drive initialize properly, contact WD and see if they will replace it.


----------



## Speed Daemon

mattack said:


> + $7.86 shipping.
> 
> I know that sounds like not much, but still.


Here's a NewEgg shipping tip: NewEgg often drop-ships, meaning that it has a deal with the hardware makers or distributors (not in every case, though) for them to ship the product straight from one of their warehouses. UPS is strict in not delivering a shipment until the day it's supposed to arrive (I suppose to keep those profitable next-day shipment orders coming), but for some reason this isn't enforced on ground shipping. I've used ground shipping for little or no cost, and have received the product the next day more times than I can count.


----------



## Soapm

Speed Daemon said:


> Here's a NewEgg shipping tip: NewEgg often drop-ships, meaning that it has a deal with the hardware makers or distributors (not in every case, though) for them to ship the product straight from one of their warehouses. UPS is strict in not delivering a shipment until the day it's supposed to arrive (I suppose to keep those profitable next-day shipment orders coming), but for some reason this isn't enforced on ground shipping. *I've used ground shipping for little or no cost, and have received the product the next day more times than I can count.*


Depending on how many zones the package has to cross and what time UPS receives the package this is expected. The flip side is if your package has to cross many zones and UPS says 5 days then you can take that to the bank. It will be 5 days.


----------



## porschebiker

FYI... for anyone looking for the highly desired Western Digital WD AV-GP 1000GB WD10EVCS hard disk drive for a Tivo upgrade, the folks over at serversupply.com have them for $190/ea. They are drives pulled and tested, so they're not new. But over the past 5 years I have used this company to source hard-to-find parts for various servers and systems and everything has always worked 100% and been reliable.

Good luck!


----------



## tobijay

After reading i'm still a little confused..............

I have a Series 3 hd (652160) 
1) can i use jmfs? yes/no 
2) or should i use mfs_live
3) can i upgrade to a 2tb with the jmfs/mfs_live which would be awesome, or just upgrade to a 1 tb which would be great
4) i am using win7 is this ok yes/no

Just trying to get my mind on the right tools to usr and the right hd
Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!

Thanks all


----------



## porschebiker

@tobijay - It appears a Tivo Series 3 can go as large as 1.3TB, but it seems it will be easier to just add a 1TB drive vs wasting 700GB of a 2TB drive.

MFSTools seems to be the simplest approach.

Yes, MFS seems to run fine on Win7. I ran it last night without errors.


----------



## tobijay

thanks!!


----------



## ThAbtO

tobijay said:


> After reading i'm still a little confused..............
> 
> I have a Series 3 hd (652160)
> 1) can i use jmfs? yes/no
> 2) or should i use mfs_live
> 3) can i upgrade to a 2tb with the jmfs/mfs_live which would be awesome, or just upgrade to a 1 tb which would be great
> 4) i am using win7 is this ok yes/no
> 
> Just trying to get my mind on the right tools to usr and the right hd
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!
> 
> Thanks all


You can use WinMFS, and heard some even use JMFS after to expand further for a 2tb (i think). I had my THD at 1 tb and it is enough for me.


----------



## ThAbtO

porschebiker said:


> FYI... for anyone looking for the highly desired Western Digital WD AV-GP 1000GB WD10EVCS hard disk drive for a Tivo upgrade, the folks over at serversupply.com have them for $190/ea. They are drives pulled and tested, so they're not new. But over the past 5 years I have used this company to source hard-to-find parts for various servers and systems and everything has always worked 100% and been reliable.
> 
> Good luck!


Current Prices I just looked at amazon today:

Product Image 
Western Digital 1 TB Caviar Green SATA II 64 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Desktop Hard Drive WD10EARS  $107.98

Western Digital Caviar Green 2 TB Desktop Hard Drive WD20EARS  @$139.99


----------



## unitron

tobijay said:


> After reading i'm still a little confused..............
> 
> I have a Series 3 hd (652160)
> 1) can i use jmfs? yes/no
> 2) or should i use mfs_live
> 3) can i upgrade to a 2tb with the jmfs/mfs_live which would be awesome, or just upgrade to a 1 tb which would be great
> 4) i am using win7 is this ok yes/no
> 
> Just trying to get my mind on the right tools to usr and the right hd
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!
> 
> Thanks all


I have a 652160.

You should have a copy of the MFS Live cd even if you don't have a TiVo of any description.

I used a 1TB drive as a "man in the middle" so that I could use WinMFS to copy the original 160GB drive while increasing the size of the swap partition to 1GB and expand without having any space left over to turn into a jmfs-defeating Apple Free Partition. That gave me 15 partitions. Then I used jmfs to copy that to a 2TB drive and expand by adding a single partition.

Others have gone straight from 160GB to 2TB using just jmfs, and report success.

For a 1TB, WinMFS should work fine. I think what you have to worry about, besides the 16 partitions per drive restriction, is not having any partitions larger than 1TB.


----------



## unitron

porschebiker said:


> @tobijay - It appears a Tivo Series 3 can go as large as 1.3TB, but it seems it will be easier to just add a 1TB drive vs wasting 700GB of a 2TB drive.
> 
> MFSTools seems to be the simplest approach.
> 
> Yes, MFS seems to run fine on Win7. I ran it last night without errors.


MFS Tools has been superceeded, for several years now, by MFS Live in the Linux based command line driven arena.

To the best of my knowledge, WinMFS is the only choice for "runs on Windows".


----------



## Speed Daemon

Soapm said:


> Depending on how many zones the package has to cross and what time UPS receives the package this is expected. The flip side is if your package has to cross many zones and UPS says 5 days then you can take that to the bank. It will be 5 days.


Zones may be helpful for billing, but for ground shipping it's the miles and average speed that matters really.

For reasons unknown to me, a lot of three and even two day shipments often take a circuitous route that almost never goes through the Worldport. I don't know how many times I've seen my package originate from SoCal, go all the way up to Chico, vanish for a while only to reappear "out for delivery" with the trail picking back up at CACH and then the nearest local distribution point.

In contrast, most drop-ship orders originate from a nearby state, and then the doorbell rings and there's the UPS guy with my package. A few hours after my package arrives, the various stops along the way are finally revealed. It's a little spooky, but I'm not complaining. 

True, not every drop shipment comes from so close. But given the small window there to order a 3-day delivery and have it arrive by Friday, ground is at worst just as fast as 3-day for orders shipped after Tuesday. If it arrives way early, that's a nice bonus. OTOH watching a costly 2-day package sit at the local hub for 24 hours is maddening. I understand that they have to do something to protect the costlier delivery times. But is there any real harm to send that 2-day package out for delivery on the next day if it's there? It's not like the people who absolutely must have it delivered next day are going to settle for a 50/50 chance of success/failure to save money!


----------



## tobijay

> @All MFS Tools has been superceeded, for several years now, by MFS Live in the Linux based command line driven arena.


Another ?

Can i just unplug my sata hard drive from my pc and re-plug that into my tivo hard drive as the source after i take the hard drive out of my tivo... ?

And then plug in my new sata hard drive into my other sata terminal thats on the motherboard as the destination drive and then put the ISO in cd
or
do i have to purchase a PCI SATA to hook up my drives....

Again, thanks all!!


----------



## unitron

tobijay said:


> Another ?
> 
> Can i just unplug my sata hard drive from my pc and re-plug that into my tivo hard drive as the source after i take the hard drive out of my tivo... ?
> 
> And then plug in my new sata hard drive into my other sata terminal thats on the motherboard as the destination drive and then put the ISO in cd
> or
> do i have to purchase a PCI SATA to hook up my drives....
> 
> Again, thanks all!!


Okay, how many SATA ports total do you have on your motherboard?

Does the hard drive with Windows on it use one of them, and is that the one you're talking about unplugging?

Is your cd or dvd drive hooked to one of the SATA ports on the motherboard?

Do you have the original drive out of the TiVo?

Do you already have the (larger) drive you intend to put in the TiVo in its place?

If so, what size, brand, and model number?

Do you have any other spare hard drives that could be used temporarily?

If so, what size?

Work with me and we'll get you upgraded fairly painlessly.


----------



## tobijay

>>Okay, how many SATA ports total do you have on your motherboard?<<
4

>>Does the hard drive with Windows on it use one of them, and is that the one you're talking about unplugging?<<
Yes

>>Is your cd or dvd drive hooked to one of the SATA ports on the motherboard?<<
yes

>>Do you have the original drive out of the TiVo?<<
not yet but going to take out in few hours

>>Do you already have the (larger) drive you intend to put in the TiVo in its place?<<
Yes

>>If so, what size, brand, and model number?<<
wd caviar green sata 1 tb wdbaay0010hnic-nrsn

>>Do you have any other spare hard drives that could be used temporarily?<<
no


----------



## tobijay

Please excuse this post this is my 4th post so i cab put in a link


----------



## tobijay

http://www.dannyandeliza.com/V2/index.php/dannyscorner/computers/302-tivo-hd-upgrade


----------



## tobijay

done works great!! thanks all!!!!!!!!!


----------



## kc8apf

Yesterday, I upgraded from a 1TB drive in my TivoHD to a 2TB simply because the 1TB drive I originally upgraded to was way too noisy. After using JMFS to do the copy and expand, the TiVo booted and gave me the missing external storage screen. Using all 2TB wasn't really my primary concern, so I let it do it's thing and it finally booted with only 1TB used.

Today, I decided to poke around and see what happened. As has been documented elsewhere, if you previously used MFS Live to expand from the original 160GB to a larger drive, it tends to leave a little extra space at the end of the drive. That extra space ends up being the 16th partition and has a partition type of Apple_Free. When JMFS does its expansion, it adds a 17th partition which is what seems to cause the missing external storage screen.

So, I'm out of luck, right? Not so fast.

NOTE: The rest of this is fairly complicated and assumes you are comfortable editing the partition table in a hex editor. The summary is that I was able to manually modify the partition table to remove the Apple_Free partition and then expand the drive using JMFS.

I have experience working with Apple partition maps (APM) from a prior job. From that experience, I know that APM creates partitions for things that most other partition maps do not including the partition map itself and free space. The Apple_Free that is being added by MFS Live is perfectly normal for APM and is just how APM indicates that some parts of the drive are unallocated.

Why does this cause problems with JMFS? JMFS has its own custom code to read/modify APM which doesn't understand Apple_Free. This is really the core of the problem. It only knows how to add a new partition by using space not currently accounted for in the APM (the common case when the original drive is completely full like an original Tivo drive). I looked at modifying this code but it looked like it would take a lot of work to handle Apple_Free correctly. That and I couldn't figure out how to actually get the .jar I built into a Linux install that I could boot natively (I use a Mac and didn't want to install a Linux distro just for this).

Well, partition tables are just bytes and the format for APM is fairly well documented. I just needed to modify the partition table manually to remove the Apple_Free partititon.

I used JMFS to do a new copy from the 1TB MFS Live-expanded drive to the 2TB drive but did not do an expand. Then, I booted into OS X and read the boot sector and APM into a file so I would have a backup and could modify things more easily:



Code:


# Read the boot sector and APM  from the Tivo drive into a file
dd if=/dev/disk0 of=original-apm bs=512 count=64

I opened original-apm in a hex editor (I used Hex Fiend). The first 512 bytes (1 sector) are the boot sector and bytes 512-32768 (sectors 1-63) are the APM. Each APM partition is 512 bytes (1 sector) long and starts with 0x504D as the first two bytes. Here is the 1st partition from my drive:



Code:


50 4D 00 00 00 00 00 0F 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 3F 41 70 70 6C 65 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 41 70 70 6C 65 5F 70 61 72 74 69 74 69 6F 6E 5F
6D 61 70 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 3F 00 00 00 33 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

Bytes 4-8 of each partition is the number of partition entries in the APM in big-endian. Since I have 16 partitions originally, this is 0x00000010. Changing this to 0x0000000F in each partition causes the 16th partition to be removed from the table. This [bold]must[/bold] be done for each partition for it to work. Save the modified file as modified-apm and then write it back to the disk:



Code:


# Write the modified boot sector and APM to the 2TB drive
dd if=modified-apm of=/dev/disk0 bs=512 count=64

Now, boot the JMFS live CD and expand the drive. It will create a new MFS partition that is the 16th partition. Put the drive in the TiVo and verify that you get 288 hours of HD (mine actually claims 287 hours but I'm not bothered by the missing hour).


----------



## unitron

tobijay said:


> ...
> >>If so, what size, brand, and model number?<<
> wd caviar green sata 1 tb wdbaay0010hnic-nrsn
> 
> ...


What's the model number on the sticker on the top of the drive?

Should be something like WD10EACS or WD10EADS or WD10EARS.

Good find on that video, by the way.

I'm assuming your post of about an hour ago means you've upgraded successfully.:up:


----------



## RaleighRoss

I'm looking at buying a replacement drive for my series 3 HD TONIGHT. LOCALLY. It appears I can get a WD10EALX or a ST31000524AS. Any reason to avoid either of these?


----------



## h0mi

Will the WD WDBACS0010HBK-NEVZ model work with the Tivo HD or premiere? Or just the WDBABT0010HBK-NESN ?


----------



## unitron

h0mi said:


> Will the WD WDBACS0010HBK-NEVZ model work with the Tivo HD or premiere? Or just the WDBABT0010HBK-NESN ?


It looks like the WDBABT0010HBK-NESN works with TiVos and the WD WDBACS0010HBK-NEVZ is for some Verizon FIOS DVR, but you can always go to the TiVo web site and see if they're specific about the model number, and if not, click on support, then on live chat, and paste both numbers into the box and try to pin them down to a definitive answer.


----------



## MPSAN

Nice post. I am surprised there have been no comments. Will keep this in mind if I replace 1 of my three 1 TB drives.

You may want to tell us which 2 TB drive you used.

'73



kc8apf said:


> Yesterday, I upgraded from a 1TB drive in my TivoHD to a 2TB simply because the 1TB drive I originally upgraded to was way too noisy. After using JMFS to do the copy and expand, the TiVo booted and gave me the missing external storage screen. Using all 2TB wasn't really my primary concern, so I let it do it's thing and it finally booted with only 1TB used.
> 
> Today, I decided to poke around and see what happened. As has been documented elsewhere, if you previously used MFS Live to expand from the original 160GB to a larger drive, it tends to leave a little extra space at the end of the drive. That extra space ends up being the 16th partition and has a partition type of Apple_Free. When JMFS does its expansion, it adds a 17th partition which is what seems to cause the missing external storage screen.
> 
> So, I'm out of luck, right? Not so fast.
> 
> NOTE: The rest of this is fairly complicated and assumes you are comfortable editing the partition table in a hex editor. The summary is that I was able to manually modify the partition table to remove the Apple_Free partition and then expand the drive using JMFS.
> 
> I have experience working with Apple partition maps (APM) from a prior job. From that experience, I know that APM creates partitions for things that most other partition maps do not including the partition map itself and free space. The Apple_Free that is being added by MFS Live is perfectly normal for APM and is just how APM indicates that some parts of the drive are unallocated.
> 
> Why does this cause problems with JMFS? JMFS has its own custom code to read/modify APM which doesn't understand Apple_Free. This is really the core of the problem. It only knows how to add a new partition by using space not currently accounted for in the APM (the common case when the original drive is completely full like an original Tivo drive). I looked at modifying this code but it looked like it would take a lot of work to handle Apple_Free correctly. That and I couldn't figure out how to actually get the .jar I built into a Linux install that I could boot natively (I use a Mac and didn't want to install a Linux distro just for this).
> 
> Well, partition tables are just bytes and the format for APM is fairly well documented. I just needed to modify the partition table manually to remove the Apple_Free partititon.
> 
> I used JMFS to do a new copy from the 1TB MFS Live-expanded drive to the 2TB drive but did not do an expand. Then, I booted into OS X and read the boot sector and APM into a file so I would have a backup and could modify things more easily:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> # Read the boot sector and APM  from the Tivo drive into a file
> dd if=/dev/disk0 of=original-apm bs=512 count=64
> 
> I opened original-apm in a hex editor (I used Hex Fiend). The first 512 bytes (1 sector) are the boot sector and bytes 512-32768 (sectors 1-63) are the APM. Each APM partition is 512 bytes (1 sector) long and starts with 0x504D as the first two bytes. Here is the 1st partition from my drive:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 50 4D 00 00 00 00 00 0F 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 3F 41 70 70 6C 65 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 41 70 70 6C 65 5F 70 61 72 74 69 74 69 6F 6E 5F
> 6D 61 70 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 3F 00 00 00 33 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 
> Bytes 4-8 of each partition is the number of partition entries in the APM in big-endian. Since I have 16 partitions originally, this is 0x00000010. Changing this to 0x0000000F in each partition causes the 16th partition to be removed from the table. This [bold]must[/bold] be done for each partition for it to work. Save the modified file as modified-apm and then write it back to the disk:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> # Write the modified boot sector and APM to the 2TB drive
> dd if=modified-apm of=/dev/disk0 bs=512 count=64
> 
> Now, boot the JMFS live CD and expand the drive. It will create a new MFS partition that is the 16th partition. Put the drive in the TiVo and verify that you get 288 hours of HD (mine actually claims 287 hours but I'm not bothered by the missing hour).


----------



## h0mi

unitron said:


> It looks like the WDBABT0010HBK-NESN works with TiVos and the WD WDBACS0010HBK-NEVZ is for some Verizon FIOS DVR, but you can always go to the TiVo web site and see if they're specifice about the model number, and if not, click on support, then on live chat, and paste both numbers into the box and try to pin them down to a definitive answer.


Tivo support indicates it will not work. Too bad.


----------



## TXTivoUser

I think I need a new drive in my THD, it's starting to stutter on live TV streams and recorded shows. Is this a decent drive? HDS721075DLE630 

I tried searching the thread for that model but it didn't return anything, and 283 pages is quite a lot to read through.


----------



## unitron

TXTivoUser said:


> I think I need a new drive in my THD, it's starting to stutter on live TV streams and recorded shows. Is this a decent drive? HDS721075DLE630
> 
> I tried searching the thread for that model but it didn't return anything, and 283 pages is quite a lot to read through.


You need to get the WD diagnostic software (I assume you're talking about the original 160GB WD drive in that HD) and test the drive you have now to be sure that it and not something else (like maybe an ailing power supply) is the problem.

You can download an .iso image and burn a bootable cd with it on it.

As to your original question:

It's 6Gb/s and (unnecessarily, since it's only 750GB) "advanced format", so it's probably newer than most of the posts in this thread.

Go look at the newegg listing

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145532

and click on the feedback tab. Not all that encouraging.

I'd be more inclined to go with this one

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136758&Tpk=wd10eads

or this one

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136490

I think I'll go start a separate thread to see if my suspicion of Hitachi quality these days is justified or not.


----------



## TXTivoUser

Thanks for the advice. It's not the stock 160 drive, that one went bye-bye long ago. This drive that's currently in there is just something old I had laying around, so I figured I should pull it before it goes totally south so I can get my season passes off of it and my recordings etc with WinMFS.

I'll check the other two links, thanks again.


----------



## unitron

TXTivoUser said:


> Thanks for the advice. It's not the stock 160 drive, that one went bye-bye long ago. This drive that's currently in there is just something old I had laying around, so I figured I should pull it before it goes totally south so I can get my season passes off of it and my recordings etc with WinMFS.
> 
> I'll check the other two links, thanks again.


Then pull it and see what brand it is and get that manufacturer's diagnostic software.

While you have the box open, read this post

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8937777#post8937777

and then give your power supply a close visual inspection.

Your problem may not be the drive.


----------



## TXTivoUser

Very interesting information, thank you very much. So let's play a little math game...I don't have a lifetime sub on my machine. Considering I *may* have to replace the HD and/or the power supply...and considering the price of HD's these days (though the ones you suggested are quite reasonable IMO), what point do I stop dumping money into this thing and go pick up a new one?


----------



## unitron

TXTivoUser said:


> Very interesting information, thank you very much. So let's play a little math game...I don't have a lifetime sub on my machine. Considering I *may* have to replace the HD and/or the power supply...and considering the price of HD's these days (though the ones you suggested are quite reasonable IMO), what point do I stop dumping money into this thing and go pick up a new one?


The ones I suggested are double what they were going for a few months ago, before the Thailand flooding, so reasonable is a relative term (although paying double for a hard drive beats having your home, everything you own, and half of your family washed away).

The time to worry about the cost/benefit analysis, to me, is after you nail down what the problem is and before you spend any money fixing it.

So let's find out if your drive is good or bad and let's find out if the power supply is good or bad and then decide our next move.

If it's the power supply, that's about $10 or less in parts and you need to be able to do simple soldering.

If you've had that TiVo for around 3 years, you should go read the $99 lifetime threads.


----------



## TXTivoUser

unitron said:


> The ones I suggested are double what they were going for a few months ago, before the Thailand flooding, so reasonable is a relative term (although paying double for a hard drive beats having your home, everything you own, and half of your family washed away).
> 
> The time to worry about the cost/benefit analysis, to me, is after you nail down what the problem is and before you spend any money fixing it.
> 
> So let's find out if your drive is good or bad and let's find out if the power supply is good or bad and then decide our next move.
> 
> If it's the power supply, that's about $10 or less in parts and you need to be able to do simple soldering.
> 
> If you've had that TiVo for around 3 years, you should go read the $99 lifetime threads.


Well now that you put it that way, it's going to take a lot bigger failure to justify the Elite (4 tuners sure would be nice though) at 499 plus subscription. I think I have had the THD going on 5 years soon...so it's seen a lot of usage. I also have a S3 that still works like a champ that I'm paying yearly for as well. Only thing I don't know how to do is solder, but I can probably figure that out or get a buddy to help me out.


----------



## unitron

TXTivoUser said:


> Well now that you put it that way, it's going to take a lot bigger failure to justify the Elite (4 tuners sure would be nice though) at 499 plus subscription. I think I have had the THD going on 5 years soon...so it's seen a lot of usage. I also have a S3 that still works like a champ that I'm paying yearly for as well. Only thing I don't know how to do is solder, but I can probably figure that out or get a buddy to help me out.


You really need to read the posts about $99 lifetime.

You might be able to threaten to cancel the units you have and get it on each.

You may or may not have to get some sort of S4 to get that offer, but the increased resale value of those other two units once lifetimed would probably cover the cost.


----------



## TXTivoUser

...capacitor go boom.  Well...not really, it's bulging...2 of them.

Now for the completely irrational but compulsive UMF....off to get a premier eliete. I mean, it'll save me 3 dollars a month in cable card rental fees after all. HAHA.

And, I will fix the THD and sell it to offset the cost. 

Thanks Unitron for the a) great information and b) great conversation points.


----------



## TXTivoUser

And you do have a point on the increased value...I'll check my options when I get back from the store shortly.


----------



## unitron

TXTivoUser said:


> ...capacitor go boom.  Well...not really, it's bulging...2 of them.
> 
> Now for the completely irrational but compulsive UMF....off to get a premier eliete. I mean, it'll save me 3 dollars a month in cable card rental fees after all. HAHA.
> 
> And, I will fix the THD and sell it to offset the cost.
> 
> Thanks Unitron for the a) great information and b) great conversation points.


Open up that S3 and look at the power supply in it as well so you only have to mail order caps once.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

TXTivoUser said:


> ...capacitor go boom.  Well...not really, it's bulging...2 of them.


This is sadly typical for consumer electronics these days. The capacitor problem goes back to 1996. And yet it continues.


----------



## robostock

Hey guys, I've been reading this thread for days and I hoping you can clear up a few things before I order my drive.

I have a Series 3 (TCD648250B) with a Western Digital 1TB installed.
The HD is beginning to fail, and I want to swap it out and keep my recordings.

I was going to swap it out and transfer the recordings to a Western Digital WD10EARX. The newer of the WD green series. But, I've see that it can actually take a larger drive.

From what I read, I thought 1TB was the max for internal HD in a S3. But, I've seen Series 3 (TCD648250B) on eBay and weeknees with 2TB HD.

So, can I put in a Western Digital 2TB WD20EARX into my Series 3? If so, would I use jmfs or mfs live? Please help me out as I'm puzzled.

Thanks guys!


----------



## Soapm

I don't know about putting a 2tb in a S3 but you would use either mfs live or winmfs.


----------



## unitron

robostock said:


> Hey guys, I've been reading this thread for days and I hoping you can clear up a few things before I order my drive.
> 
> I have a Series 3 (TCD648250B) with a Western Digital 1TB installed.
> The HD is beginning to fail, and I want to swap it out and keep my recordings.
> 
> I was going to swap it out and transfer the recordings to a Western Digital WD10EARX. The newer of the WD green series. But, I've see that it can actually take a larger drive.
> 
> From what I read, I thought 1TB was the max for internal HD in a S3. But, I've seen Series 3 (TCD648250B) on eBay and weeknees with 2TB HD.
> 
> So, can I put in a Western Digital 2TB WD20EARX into my Series 3? If so, would I use jmfs or mfs live? Please help me out as I'm puzzled.
> 
> Thanks guys!


_You_ cannot use a drive bigger than approx 1.1GB + 250GB, the equivalent of the original drive and an approved external.

And neither can I.

Because we don't know how.

Others who do know more than either of us have figured out a way to use drives larger than that.

Since they'd rather use that knowledge to make money selling ready to go drives than share the knowledge with everyone and not make any money at it, chances are we will continue not to know how.

Money being a very nice and handy thing to have, I can't say as I blame them.


----------



## unitron

robostock said:


> Hey guys, I've been reading this thread for days and I hoping you can clear up a few things before I order my drive.
> 
> I have a Series 3 (TCD648250B) with a Western Digital 1TB installed.
> The HD is beginning to fail, and I want to swap it out and keep my recordings.
> 
> I was going to swap it out and transfer the recordings to a Western Digital WD10EARX. The newer of the WD green series. But, I've see that it can actually take a larger drive.
> 
> From what I read, I thought 1TB was the max for internal HD in a S3. But, I've seen Series 3 (TCD648250B) on eBay and weeknees with 2TB HD.
> 
> So, can I put in a Western Digital 2TB WD20EARX into my Series 3? If so, would I use jmfs or mfs live? Please help me out as I'm puzzled.
> 
> Thanks guys!


Let me add that you may be able to use that 2TB drive in a 648, but not be able to use all 2TB of it.


----------



## robostock

unitron said:


> _You_ cannot use a drive bigger than approx 1.1GB + 250GB, the equivalent of the original drive and an approved external.
> 
> And neither can I.
> 
> Because we don't know how.
> 
> Others who do know more than either of us have figured out a way to use drives larger than that.
> 
> Since they'd rather use that knowledge to make money selling ready to go drives than share the knowledge with everyone and not make any money at it, chances are we will continue not to know how.
> 
> Money being a very nice and handy thing to have, I can't say as I blame them.


I agree with you, money is awesome to have. Additional HD space is a very nice and handy to have.

Since I'm short on both, I'm just glad the advice is free!


----------



## unitron

robostock said:


> I agree with you, money is awesome to have. Additional HD space is a very nice and handy to have.
> 
> Since I'm short on both, I'm just glad the advice is free!


Mine is, and it's guaranteed to be worth what you paid for it.


----------



## unitron

kc8apf said:


> Yesterday, I upgraded from a 1TB drive in my TivoHD to a 2TB simply because the 1TB drive I originally upgraded to was way too noisy. After using JMFS to do the copy and expand, the TiVo booted and gave me the missing external storage screen. Using all 2TB wasn't really my primary concern, so I let it do it's thing and it finally booted with only 1TB used.
> 
> Today, I decided to poke around and see what happened. As has been documented elsewhere, if you previously used MFS Live to expand from the original 160GB to a larger drive, it tends to leave a little extra space at the end of the drive. That extra space ends up being the 16th partition and has a partition type of Apple_Free. When JMFS does its expansion, it adds a 17th partition which is what seems to cause the missing external storage screen.
> 
> So, I'm out of luck, right? Not so fast.
> 
> NOTE: The rest of this is fairly complicated and assumes you are comfortable editing the partition table in a hex editor. The summary is that I was able to manually modify the partition table to remove the Apple_Free partition and then expand the drive using JMFS.
> 
> I have experience working with Apple partition maps (APM) from a prior job. From that experience, I know that APM creates partitions for things that most other partition maps do not including the partition map itself and free space. The Apple_Free that is being added by MFS Live is perfectly normal for APM and is just how APM indicates that some parts of the drive are unallocated.
> 
> Why does this cause problems with JMFS? JMFS has its own custom code to read/modify APM which doesn't understand Apple_Free. This is really the core of the problem. It only knows how to add a new partition by using space not currently accounted for in the APM (the common case when the original drive is completely full like an original Tivo drive). I looked at modifying this code but it looked like it would take a lot of work to handle Apple_Free correctly. That and I couldn't figure out how to actually get the .jar I built into a Linux install that I could boot natively (I use a Mac and didn't want to install a Linux distro just for this).
> 
> Well, partition tables are just bytes and the format for APM is fairly well documented. I just needed to modify the partition table manually to remove the Apple_Free partititon.
> 
> I used JMFS to do a new copy from the 1TB MFS Live-expanded drive to the 2TB drive but did not do an expand. Then, I booted into OS X and read the boot sector and APM into a file so I would have a backup and could modify things more easily:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> # Read the boot sector and APM  from the Tivo drive into a file
> dd if=/dev/disk0 of=original-apm bs=512 count=64
> 
> I opened original-apm in a hex editor (I used Hex Fiend). The first 512 bytes (1 sector) are the boot sector and bytes 512-32768 (sectors 1-63) are the APM. Each APM partition is 512 bytes (1 sector) long and starts with 0x504D as the first two bytes. Here is the 1st partition from my drive:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 50 4D 00 00 00 00 00 0F 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 3F 41 70 70 6C 65 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 41 70 70 6C 65 5F 70 61 72 74 69 74 69 6F 6E 5F
> 6D 61 70 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 3F 00 00 00 33 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 
> Bytes 4-8 of each partition is the number of partition entries in the APM in big-endian. Since I have 16 partitions originally, this is 0x00000010. Changing this to 0x0000000F in each partition causes the 16th partition to be removed from the table. This [bold]must[/bold] be done for each partition for it to work. Save the modified file as modified-apm and then write it back to the disk:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> # Write the modified boot sector and APM to the 2TB drive
> dd if=modified-apm of=/dev/disk0 bs=512 count=64
> 
> Now, boot the JMFS live CD and expand the drive. It will create a new MFS partition that is the 16th partition. Put the drive in the TiVo and verify that you get 288 hours of HD (mine actually claims 287 hours but I'm not bothered by the missing hour).


Somehow I missed seeing this post when it first went up, but I certainly thank you for it, it's info I hadn't found elsewhere.

One thing I'd like to know now that we have an APM guru available, after you'd hex edited that 1TB to remove all references to Apple Free partition 16, if, before copying it to the 2TB with jmfs, you had taken a look at it with

pdisk -l /dev/sd"whatever"

would that have shown just 15 partitions, or would it have interpreted the extra space as an Apple Free, and would it have rewritten the APM to include it as partition 16, thus undoing what you just did?

And do you know enough about pdisk to venture an opinion as to whether it's editing options would allow one to accomplish the same thing you did with hex editing?


----------



## bigd2008

I have an unopened 1TB MyDVR Expander. It's been sitting around for about 2 years not being used. I had planned to hook it up in addition to upgrading the internal drive, but found that just upgrading the internal drive gave me plenty of recording capacity.

My question.. If I use the expander as an external storage in a windows environment, will this kill my ability to ever use it as a Tivo expander?


----------



## unitron

bigd2008 said:


> I have an unopened 1TB MyDVR Expander. It's been sitting around for about 2 years not being used. I had planned to hook it up in addition to upgrading the internal drive, but found that just upgrading the internal drive gave me plenty of recording capacity.
> 
> My question.. If I use the expander as an external storage in a windows environment, will this kill my ability to ever use it as a Tivo expander?


You should be able to unformat it.

You can always write zeros to the first few sectors, and I think the WD diagnostic software bootable cd image (which you should have if you own recent model TiVos anyway) has an erase option.

Of course, just as a Windows machine cannot see the Apple Partition Map on a TiVo drive and assumes it's unformatted and happily slaps an MBR on it, a TiVo probably won't be able to spot an MBR, and will go right ahead and format it and use it just like a new one.

I've got at least one drive around here that looks to fdisk like a DOS/Windows/IBMcompatible drive and like a TiVo drive to pdisk because the APM and MBR bits don't land in exactly the same places.

It seems that the TiVo looks at the model number of the drive itself, which is on the drive's firmware, not the platters, and not at anything about the enclosure, to assure itself that the drive is one of the authorized models

I'm not sure you can use an external expander if you've replaced the internal with a bigger drive.

You might want to take advantage of the current hard drive shortage to get your money back out of that thing.


----------



## bcnyc

Anyone know if they're still making the My Book DVR Expander? Everyone is out, except for some price-gougers asking $250+.


----------



## unitron

bcnyc said:


> Anyone know if they're still making the My Book DVR Expander? Everyone is out, except for some price-gougers asking $250+.


When you say everyone is out, do you mean online or actual individual stores you have to drive to and walk in like Staples and Best Buy and Target?

'Cause I've seen mention of people finding them locally as closeouts.


----------



## pawnslinger

unitron said:


> When you say everyone is out, do you mean online or actual individual stores you have to drive to and walk in like Staples and Best Buy and Target?
> 
> 'Cause I've seen mention of people finding them locally as closeouts.


I picked up one on eBay, open box, for $165. I've had it for about 2 weeks now, and so far it is working well. I also saw some refurbs for sale for less than $200, new ones are more, if you can find them.


----------



## affreeman

I tried running WinMFS on my mac Pro running Windows 7 Ultimate under Bootcamp, with the drives mounted in two of the internal SATA bays. WinMFS does not show any drives in the "Select Drives" screen. I'm rather stumped and am not sure what to try to remedy this. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.


----------



## lpwcomp

affreeman said:


> I tried running WinMFS on my mac Pro running Windows 7 Ultimate under Bootcamp, with the drives mounted in two of the internal SATA bays. WinMFS does not show any drives in the "Select Drives" screen. I'm rather stumped and am not sure what to try to remedy this. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.


Are you running WinMFS "as administrator"?


----------



## affreeman

lpwcomp said:


> Are you running WinMFS "as administrator"?


That was it. Duh! <slaps forehead> My only excuse is that I spend way more time in OS X than in Windows nowadays.

So I ran WinMFS apparently successfully, but when I put the new drive in the Tivo it fails to boot. After displaying the "Powering Up" message briefly, the screen goes gray and then nothing. Sigh...


----------



## ThAbtO

You would need to hook it up to a PC and run WDIDLE.


----------



## affreeman

affreeman said:


> So I ran WinMFS apparently successfully, but when I put the new drive in the Tivo it fails to boot. After displaying the "Powering Up" message briefly, the screen goes gray and then nothing. Sigh...


I opened up the Tivo and re-seated the SATA cable. That did the trick. Up and running. Phew!


----------



## unitron

affreeman said:


> I opened up the Tivo and re-seated the SATA cable. That did the trick. Up and running. Phew!


What model TiVo, were you starting with the original drive, and what brand and model of drive were you upgrading to?


----------



## affreeman

unitron said:


> What model TiVo, were you starting with the original drive, and what brand and model of drive were you upgrading to?


It's a TivoHD. I started with the original 160GB drive, and upgraded to a Seagate 1TB ST31000322CS.


----------



## unitron

affreeman said:


> It's a TivoHD. I started with the original 160GB drive, and upgraded to a Seagate 1TB ST31000322CS.


I'll be interested to see how that works out for you. Some people have had trouble with some 2TB Seagates in HDs, mostly of the spontaneous reboot variety.

I did with a different model 2TB Seagate, but that may have been my fault in the way I set it up, and not the drive's.

Used a WD instead, and put the Seagate in a computer running TiVo desktop on XP and all has been well ever since.


----------



## muerte33

I don't know if I should post this here or open a new thread, but it looks like this is the clearing house for upgrading drives in Tivo boxes, so here goes.

Recently I upgraded a Tivo HD with a WD WD10EADS-00L501 green drive using WINMFS, it went smoothly. It did not have advanced formatting.
I lost all my recorded programs because of the divorce I had to perform on the external 500gb drive (which was the problem), but I maintained all my cable card settings and season passes.

I have another Tivo HD with the original 160gb HD in it, and an attached 1gb WD DVR expander, that I think is starting to display the same problems (freezeup, reboots, etc).
I will probably run Kickstart 54 on it, like I did on the drive above (which failed on the external 500gb WD DVR expander). 
I have already purchased a drive in case of a failure, and I have it in hand.
It is a WD20EARS-00J99B0. I have primed it with WDIDLE3 /S300 (which worked fine).
I ran an extended test on it with the Lifeguard tools, and it passed.
I tried to use HDDscan to change the AAM parameters, but it is not supported on this particular WD20EARS drive. There was no way to turn it on, because it is not supported on this particular one. I saw where other people with this build# had the same issue. It seems very quiet anyway, and will be in a cabinet, so this may be OK.

My question is do I need to perform the Western Digital WDalign utility on it?
It IS an advanced format drive with that new sector mapping.
WD says to use WDalign instead of jumpering pins 7-8.
Can the Tivo HD run with this advanced formatting?
Does it slow it down, does it cause problems?

I plan on using the JMFS instructions here to do the upgrade:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179&highlight=tivo+hd+jmfs

This way I don't have to use an external drive, which I hate because when it fails,
you lose all your recorded programs in a divorce.
Thanks very much for this forum, and all your help!


----------



## muerte33

bcnyc said:


> Anyone know if they're still making the My Book DVR Expander? Everyone is out, except for some price-gougers asking $250+.


I could not find any reasonably priced either.
Wonder if this is a subtle way to get us to update to the premiere or elite.


----------



## unitron

muerte33 said:


> I don't know if I should post this here or open a new thread, but it looks like this is the clearing house for upgrading drives in Tivo boxes, so here goes.
> 
> Recently I upgraded a Tivo HD with a WD WD10EADS-00L501 green drive using WINMFS, it went smoothly. It did not have advanced formatting.
> I lost all my recorded programs because of the divorce I had to perform on the external 500gb drive (which was the problem), but I maintained all my cable card settings and season passes.
> 
> I have another Tivo HD with the original 160gb HD in it, and an attached 1gb WD DVR expander, that I think is starting to display the same problems (freezeup, reboots, etc).
> I will probably run Kickstart 54 on it, like I did on the drive above (which failed on the external 500gb WD DVR expander).
> I have already purchased a drive in case of a failure, and I have it in hand.
> It is a WD20EARS-00J99B0. I have primed it with WDIDLE3 /S300 (which worked fine).
> I ran an extended test on it with the Lifeguard tools, and it passed.
> I tried to use HDDscan to change the AAM parameters, but it is not supported on this particular WD20EARS drive. There was no way to turn it on, because it is not supported on this particular one. I saw where other people with this build# had the same issue. It seems very quiet anyway, and will be in a cabinet, so this may be OK.
> 
> My question is do I need to perform the Western Digital WDalign utility on it?
> It IS an advanced format drive with that new sector mapping.
> WD says to use WDalign instead of jumpering pins 7-8.
> Can the Tivo HD run with this advanced formatting?
> Does it slow it down, does it cause problems?
> 
> I plan on using the JMFS instructions here to do the upgrade:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179&highlight=tivo+hd+jmfs
> 
> This way I don't have to use an external drive, which I hate because when it fails,
> you lose all your recorded programs in a divorce.
> Thanks very much for this forum, and all your help!


You probably need to go through the previous 100 pages or so of this thread and see what the others who have used the 20EARS have done or not done about the 4K situation and how it's worked out for them.

I used a 20EADS and avoided the issue.

If you didn't wind up with a 16th "Apple Free" partition when you used WinMFS to go onto that 10EADS, you could use jmfs to copy and expand it to the 2TB, and then later if you have to divorce the remaining 160 you can WinMFS it onto the now redundant 10EADS, at which point it probably wouldn't hurt anything to specify a swap size of 1000.

You might want to look into whether the problem with those external drives is the enclosure's electronics or the actual drive inside.


----------



## unitron

muerte33 said:


> I could not find any reasonably priced either.
> Wonder if this is a subtle way to get us to update to the premiere or elite.


I suspect TiVo has no control over this and the cause is chiefly the overall hard drive supply shortage due to the Thailand flooding.


----------



## muerte33

unitron said:


> You probably need to go through the previous 100 pages or so of this thread and see what the others who have used the 20EARS have done or not done about the 4K situation and how it's worked out for them.
> 
> I used a 20EADS and avoided the issue.
> 
> If you didn't wind up with a 16th "Apple Free" partition when you used WinMFS to go onto that 10EADS, you could use jmfs to copy and expand it to the 2TB, and then later if you have to divorce the remaining 160 you can WinMFS it onto the now redundant 10EADS, at which point it probably wouldn't hurt anything to specify a swap size of 1000.
> 
> You might want to look into whether the problem with those external drives is the enclosure's electronics or the actual drive inside.


Using the WD tools, I wrote zeros to the external 500gb drive (took about 5 hours), now it will not fail any test I throw at it.
Guess it is "cured"?


----------



## unitron

muerte33 said:


> Using the WD tools, I wrote zeros to the external 500gb drive (took about 5 hours), now it will not fail any test I throw at it.
> Guess it is "cured"?


What I had in mind was more along the lines of disassembling the external enclosure and hooking the bare drive to a SATA port on a motherboard--eliminating the middleman, so to speak.


----------



## husky55

Just a heads up for those upgrading HD in Tivos. I have been using winmfs.exe and Conner's jmfs for a long time in my older Intel Q6600 win7 system. However I recently built a newer system with a MSI MB Z68 chipset and a i7 2600k cpu and 16 GB of DDR3 memory.

Imagine to my surprise when I try to copy a Tivo 1 TB to a WD 1 TB WD and I cannot make it work. The winmfs allows me to select A drive as a source drive but no destination drive.

So I boot up my CD of JMFS and got an error about it cannot find the JAVAMFS folder.

To make a long story, short, it's not WIN7, nor WINMFS nor JMFS problem. It's the MSI MB with the newer chipset Z68 which caused the problem. Or may be it's the new BIOS format.

Anyway, I used my old PC with the older intel chipset and cpu and all is well again. Whew!!!


----------



## cwerdna

richsadams said:


> IIRC both are standard SATA ports on the TiVo MB but I no longer have a TiVo HD to check. And you're right, it's hard to tell from the photo. The two ports are obviously a little different as are the cables, but I think they are both normal SATA ports. Perhaps someone can verify that?
> 
> I think a couple of folks here have connected an external multiple-drive array directly to the secondary SATA port. However I don't know if they used an eSATA > SATA or a SATA > SATA connection.
> 
> So you're proposing disconnecting the primary drive's SATA cable and swapping the eSATA cable into the primary SATA port on the MB (assuming they have matching ports)? I don't know if that would work or not. (I would disconnect the SATA/Power cable going to the primary drive so TiVo isn't powering it up if you do that.) The bridge in the enclosure may or may not affect TiVo's ability to "see" the eSATA drive as a primary drive. I don't know why it wouldn't work or why it would harm anything but I don't know if anyone has tried it either. I also don't see any reason that eventually installing it permanently wouldn't work either, but again, the whole eSATA/bridge thing might affect it somehow.
> 
> In any case, that would be a whole new twist on things and if it works certainly get you into the TiVo Pioneer's club!





cwerdna said:


> I've verified that the two SATA connectors on the mobo are physically identical. I disconnected the (probably bad) 160 gig stock A drive and moved the eSATA header connector over to it.
> 
> I was able to put an image via winmfs onto my DVR Expander and it's been running fine after guided setup, clearing and deleting all (whoops, forgot about the "locking" of drives to a TSN), guided setup again, letting it upgrade to 11.0d, and making a few recordings. So far so good.
> 
> So, I guess I'm a "pioneer" for now. Once my DVR Expander's warranty is over, we'll see what happens when I try to move the drive internally.
> 
> BTW, I received my SIIG CB-SA0111-S1 1m cable and it honestly doesn't seem to "snap in" much better than the stock DVR Expander cable they ship with now. In fact, the original cable snaps in whereas the SIIG cable just seems to go in w/more friction. Anyhow, I'm using the SIIG cable now, just for good measure. I ordered mine from http://www.walmart.com/ip/SIIG-eSATA-to-eSATA-cable-1m/10884515.


Well, my pioneering days my be over soon.

I've noticed my TiVo HD might be hitting a few random reboots lately (once when I switched tuners) and I noticed two 8 minute incomplete recordings today due to "no power" (virtually impossible, TiVo is on a UPS, unless the UPS is getting flaky) and there was no power outage today.

Since my 1 TB Expander warranty is up, I'm going to open up the Expander in the next few days and transplant the drive into my TiVo HD. I'll probably run a WD quick test using their Data Lifeguard Diagnostic for DOS, for good measure.

It seems my 1 TB Expander has survived past the 2 year mark and is almost at the 2.5 year mark. (Expander was ordered 9/28/09 and put in service probably within week or two of that.)


----------



## Soapm

cwerdna said:


> Well, my pioneering days my be over soon.
> 
> I've noticed my TiVo HD might be hitting a few random reboots lately (once when I switched tuners) and I noticed two 8 minute incomplete recordings today due to "no power" (virtually impossible, TiVo is on a UPS, unless the UPS is getting flaky) and there was no power outage today.


Unitron will be along shortly for the formal diagnosis but power??? You might be getting cap disease...


----------



## unitron

Soapm said:


> Unitron will be along shortly for the formal diagnosis but power??? You might be getting cap disease...


Gremlins.


----------



## leiff

I have a 1.5 tb in my original S3 I put in a while back with about 200 gigs unusable. I thought I'd check in here to see if that restrictions been lifted yet if I can now do something to make use of my entire drive?


----------



## unitron

leiff said:


> I have a 1.5 tb in my original S3 I put in a while back with about 200 gigs unusable. I thought I'd check in here to see if that restrictions been lifted yet if I can now do something to make use of my entire drive?


As far as I've noticed the DIY limit on the TCD648250 remains 1.1TB + 250GB, although there may be some proprietary solutions that exceed that, if you care to pay the price.


----------



## MrMike1876

Sorry If I am posting this in the wrong place.

It looks as if my 750GB HD on my Tivo Series 3 HD (Silver box) Failed. (First S03 Error then worked and a week later the Neverending Restart - SmartTest shows Drive Passed - but extended test - "NOSupport" and MyDVRExpander passed all tests) 

I lost all my programs and since I was connected to the WD mydvrexpander - it looks like I have no real way to recover everything - without spending a fortune on data recovery. Unless someone has a good idea for me to try?

Right now my plan is to test out the unit to make sure it was the Hard Drive that failed - I will put back the original HD into the unit - to see if it starts up. If it works - I will upgrade the unit with a 1TB or 2TB WD drive (Not sure if 2TB is recommended for that unit)

I ended up buying a new Premiere Elite. I was wondering if I want to use my original my dvr expander with the new unit - I can connect it to the elite? I guess it formats automatically? 

If I get my failed HD repaired by some miracle -is there a way for me to copy it on to the new Elite Drive and use the expander with the new unit?

Sorry a bunch of questions - hopefully someone can help. I appreciate any advice.

Thanks, Michael


----------



## Teeps

MrMike1876 said:


> If I get my failed HD repaired by some miracle -is there a way for me to copy it on to the new Elite Drive and use the expander with the new unit?
> Thanks, Michael


I doubt that is possible.

But, you could try doing a bit copy from the failing drive to a same size replacement.

(I have copied a failing original drive to a like sized replacement and when I fired the TiVo up, much to my delight, the extender was still present and accounted for, and it worked...)

If that works and your extender drive is not hosed. You should be able to transfer the programs saved to the new Elite.
After that, you can divorce the extender and try connecting it to the Elite.


----------



## unitron

MrMike1876 said:


> Sorry If I am posting this in the wrong place.
> 
> It looks as if my 750GB HD on my Tivo Series 3 HD (Silver box) Failed. (First S03 Error then worked and a week later the Neverending Restart - SmartTest shows Drive Passed - but extended test - "NOSupport" and MyDVRExpander passed all tests)
> 
> I lost all my programs and since I was connected to the WD mydvrexpander - it looks like I have no real way to recover everything - without spending a fortune on data recovery. Unless someone has a good idea for me to try?
> 
> Right now my plan is to test out the unit to make sure it was the Hard Drive that failed - I will put back the original HD into the unit - to see if it starts up. If it works - I will upgrade the unit with a 1TB or 2TB WD drive (Not sure if 2TB is recommended for that unit)
> 
> I ended up buying a new Premiere Elite. I was wondering if I want to use my original my dvr expander with the new unit - I can connect it to the elite? I guess it formats automatically?
> 
> If I get my failed HD repaired by some miracle -is there a way for me to copy it on to the new Elite Drive and use the expander with the new unit?
> 
> Sorry a bunch of questions - hopefully someone can help. I appreciate any advice.
> 
> Thanks, Michael


I'll try to explain

dd_rescue

to you after I've had some sleep.


----------



## MrMike1876

ok thanks for the responses.

What is a "Bit" Copy? Could I transfer the Image from the failed Seagate 750GB to a new WD 1 TB? I am going to buy a new 1TB with a Tivo Series 3 image pre loaded on there.

What adapter do you recommend - I have a laptop.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

unitron said:


> I'll try to explain
> 
> dd_rescue
> 
> to you after I've had some sleep.


I'll try, once unitron wakes up he can correct me as needed.

dd_rescue (which is the default method that the JMFS uses, I believe) duplicates one hard drive to the next, byte for byte. As it sees any portions of the source drive that are sub-par (the technical term for that is 'iffy'), it slows down. It reads that section over and over, and more slowly(?i think?), hoping that some of the reads may be more successful than others. On these 'iffy' portions of the source drive, the speed of the transfer can slow down drastically. That's a good thing--that's how dd_rescue rescues these 'iffy' bits.

So if JMFS copy is an option for you (I forget what source TiVo you're talking about), use it. Or use the MFSLive CD and dd_rescue is on there at the command line.

Either way, let it do its magic, let it take as long as it damn well pleases. On completion, you'll likely hve a working TiVo image on the new drive, with perhaps some bits incomplete or missing. If those bad/incomplete parts are in a show, it will be corrupt, pixelated or simply fail to play. No harm done, just delete it. If they are in the OS portion, it's a bit worse. But do not despair. There's a "kickstart" option (is it 57?) that will download the latest TiVo software to the _inactive_ OS partition. That is, the "active" but broken partition will be set aside, a new image will be installed from TiVo.com onto the other partition, and you'll be good to go. Then the next time TiVo upgrades its OS, the second partition will be used, which had bad parts of your old drive on it but that will be deleted and overwritten with the next TiVo release.


----------



## unitron

ThreeSoFar said:


> I'll try, once unitron wakes up he can correct me as needed.
> 
> dd_rescue (which is the default method that the JMFS uses, I believe) duplicates one hard drive to the next, byte for byte. As it sees any portions of the source drive that are sub-par (the technical term for that is 'iffy'), it slows down. It reads that section over and over, and more slowly(?i think?), hoping that some of the reads may be more successful than others. On these 'iffy' portions of the source drive, the speed of the transfer can slow down drastically. That's a good thing--that's how dd_rescue rescues these 'iffy' bits.
> 
> So if JMFS copy is an option for you (I forget what source TiVo you're talking about), use it. Or use the MFSLive CD and dd_rescue is on there at the command line.
> 
> Either way, let it do its magic, let it take as long as it damn well pleases. On completion, you'll likely hve a working TiVo image on the new drive, with perhaps some bits incomplete or missing. If those bad/incomplete parts are in a show, it will be corrupt, pixelated or simply fail to play. No harm done, just delete it. If they are in the OS portion, it's a bit worse. But do not despair. There's a "kickstart" option (is it 57?) that will download the latest TiVo software to the _inactive_ OS partition. That is, the "active" but broken partition will be set aside, a new image will be installed from TiVo.com onto the other partition, and you'll be good to go. Then the next time TiVo upgrades its OS, the second partition will be used, which had bad parts of your old drive on it but that will be deleted and overwritten with the next TiVo release.


Thanks, Three.

The original utility is

dd

and it does byte for byte copies, but it only runs at one speed and displays no information about what it's doing as it does it.

dd_rescue

and

ddrescue

are two separate and different utilities (with confusingly similar names) that do the same thing, but are more adjustable, and have options that let you see what's going on.

I think jmfs uses ddrescue

The MFS Live bootable cd has dd_rescue on it (along with a lot of other useful stuff), and is what I'm accustomed to using.

An explanation of the various KickStart codes, and how to invoke them, is here

http://www.weaknees.com/tivo-kickstart-codes.php

and the one that swaps the main and alternate boot partition sets is probably KS 51, but since there's no real "official, straight from TiVo, Inc.'s engineering department" documentation, one can't be sure.

The WinMFS program provides a way to swap from which set of partitions the TiVo boots, and though it requires removing the drive from the TiVo, I recommend it instead, if needed.

*MrMike1876*:

What you should do, assuming you have a PC available to do this, and assuming that 750GB drive is a Western Digital, is take the internal drive out of the TiVo, search Western Digital's web site for the model number, and when you get the page for that drive, on the left there'll be a "downloads" link, which will take you to a page where you can download an image from which you can burn a bootable cd with the WD diagnostic software on it.

Boot the PC with that cd (do not boot into Windows), and with the TiVo drive attached, and run the short test, and then the long one.

It'll take a while. Maybe longer.

If it's some other brand, try their website for a bootable diagnostic cd image.

Is your TiVo a TCD648250, a TCD652160, or a TCD65800?

What became of the original drive?

Which program did you use to copy it to the 750 and expand?

If the 750 is in good shape physically, then the software on it may be suspect.

That's when, if you want to try to save recordings, we can use

dd_rescue

to try to copy it byte for byte to another drive as large or larger.

The catch is that the larger drive will think that it's the 750 because we will have copied the bootpage and partition map of the 750.

This will, if all goes well, allow it to work with the external.

Any chance that your TiVo is a TCD648250, and that the drive is not a 750, but the original 250?

Because I was under the impression that you could only use an external with the original unexpanded drive, although I suppose I could have been misinformed.

Probably not a bad idea to go ahead and go to

mfslive.org

and download the zip file of the .iso image of the MFS Live cd v1.4, and also download the WinMFS program.


----------



## slowbiscuit

If anyone needs a drive for a decent price now, I can recommend one for the Premiere - an external Seagate FreeAgent GoFlex Desk 1.5TB. Get this at staples.com with a $25 off $75 coupon (google for this, costs about $1.50) then have them price match to Amazon for net price of around $70 with tax.

Took a chance that this would work, figured I could use it for one of my PCs if not. Taking it out of the case, discovered it was a model st1500dl001 drive, which is a Seagate Barracuda Green drive running at 5900rpm with (I think) advanced format and 64MB cache. I was concerned about it working in the Premiere I just got from the Electronics Expo deal so I updated the Tivo software on the stock drive to 20.2 before copying. Using jmfs, the copy/expand/supersize went off without a hitch and more importantly, it booted right up in the Premeire and seems to be fine.

So the net, to me, is that you can still get a decent price on a 1TB or more drive if you are willing to consider taking a drive out of an external case.


----------



## twoehr

I am trying to copy the original drive from my Premier using jmfs v104 and the copy fails about 1/2 way through, @ 15944 MB every time. I get a "Copy did not finish successfully." and see "ddrescue: write error: Input/output error in the activity summary. Any ideas?

Additional info:
Rig: HP desktop, connecting drives to internal SATA connections.
The new drive is a WD7500AADS. (It is the old Win7 disk from the HP).
The original drive is installed as sdb and the "new" drive as sda. Both drives were detected correctly.

Thanks in advance,

Tim


----------



## lpwcomp

twoehr said:


> I am trying to copy the original drive from my Premier using jmfs v104 and the copy fails about 1/2 way through, @ 15944 MB every time. I get a "Copy did not finish successfully." and see "ddrescue: write error: Input/output error in the activity summary. Any ideas?
> 
> Additional info:
> Rig: HP desktop, connecting drives to internal SATA connections.
> The new drive is a WD7500AADS. (It is the old Win7 disk from the HP).
> The original drive is installed as sdb and the "new" drive as sda. Both drives were detected correctly.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Tim


I assume that this is not a Premiere XL.


----------



## unitron

twoehr said:


> I am trying to copy the original drive from my Premier using jmfs v104 and the copy fails about 1/2 way through, @ 15944 MB every time. I get a "Copy did not finish successfully." and see "ddrescue: write error: Input/output error in the activity summary. Any ideas?
> 
> Additional info:
> Rig: HP desktop, connecting drives to internal SATA connections.
> The new drive is a WD7500AADS. (It is the old Win7 disk from the HP).
> The original drive is installed as sdb and the "new" drive as sda. Both drives were detected correctly.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Tim


Run the long test from WD's own diagnostic software on that target drive.

Also, I think hdparm is included on the jmfs cd (if not, it's on the MFS Live cd v1.4, of which everyone should have a copy, even non-TiVo owners).

hdparm -N /dev/sda

if the results show two different long numbers, then you've got a host protected area on that old winders drive that will need to be dealt with.

I don't know if HP does that. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't have a hidden partition on there with the Win7 install files, although the jmfs copy process should just overwrite the MBR and everything else, but an HPA is low level enough to throw a monkey wrench in the works.


----------



## twoehr

unitron said:


> Run the long test from WD's own diagnostic software on that target drive.


I'll do this later and come back with the results.



unitron said:


> Also, I think hdparm is included on the jmfs cd (if not, it's on the MFS Live cd v1.4, of which everyone should have a copy, even non-TiVo owners).
> 
> hdparm -N /dev/sda


hdparm was on there; result showed identical #s (1465149168) & HPA is disabled

I thought the issue had to do with the original TiVo drive, if its the new drive I feel better about a positive resolution. (Good news anyway is that my TiVo's grinding was the fan, not the drive, so worse case I wait longer for more space.)

Thanks,

Tim


----------



## twoehr

lpwcomp said:


> I assume that this is not a Premiere XL.


Correct, it is not an XL.

I'm working on not being an XL either.


----------



## unitron

twoehr said:


> I'll do this later and come back with the results.
> 
> hdparm was on there; result showed identical #s (1465149168) & HPA is disabled
> 
> I thought the issue had to do with the original TiVo drive, if its the new drive I feel better about a positive resolution. (Good news anyway is that my TiVo's grinding was the fan, not the drive, so worse case I wait longer for more space.)
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tim


You're trying to copy a drive from a Premiere that was giving trouble?


----------



## twoehr

unitron said:


> You're trying to copy a drive from a Premiere that was giving trouble?


I thought the drive was, by the noise, but it turned out to be the fan and not the drive.

I haven't dl'd the WD tools to check the WD7500AADS drive yet, but I found a Seagate 500GB 7200rpm drive lying around and figured I'd see what happens with it. It looks like I can copy the Premier drive to it without a problem, not that I'd want to use that drive. So I guess the trouble is in the WD7500.


----------



## unitron

twoehr said:


> I thought the drive was, by the noise, but it turned out to be the fan and not the drive.
> 
> I haven't dl'd the WD tools to check the WD7500AADS drive yet, but I found a Seagate 500GB 7200rpm drive lying around and figured I'd see what happens with it. It looks like I can copy the Premier drive to it without a problem, not that I'd want to use that drive. So I guess the trouble is in the WD7500.


So there were no indications of anything wrong with the Premiere except the noise that turned out to be the fan?


----------



## BurnieM

I have not seen any references to the WD10EURX so I thought I would comment on my experiences.

Drive info;
Western Digital AV-GP Green Power WD10EURX-73FH1Y0
Product of Malaysia
14 Feb 2012
Purchased for AU$137

My TiVo is a TCD663160 (Australian TiVoHD) running software version 11.3b5-01-2-663 and purchased in March 2009.
The old drive was a WD1600AVJS-63WNA0, Product of Thailand, 04 Jul 2008 and still working fine.
The screws on the back of the case and on the disk tray were Torx T10 but the screws under the drive were T15.

I booted my PC standalone and ran WDIDLE3 on the new drive to find it was disabled out of the box. 
I used it to set the timer to both 8 and 300 seconds to establish that WDIDLE3 does work with this drive before setting it back to the default 'disabled'.

HDDScan said that AAM was not supported on this drive but not an issue as this drive is very quiet.

I ran the Seatools Long Generic test which took 2hr 30min to verify that the drive was fine.

I connected the old and new drives and ran WinMFS beta9.3g which took 44 min to copy my drive. 
I expanded the drive but did not SuperSize it.

The above was run on my Win XP SP3 PC (E5700 @ 3.00GHz with 2GB memory).

I placed the new drive in my TiVo and it booted normally.
I soft booted it and it was fine (as you would expect with IDLE3 disabled).

It has only been running for 24 hours so this is not exactly an exhaustive test but it has recorded 6 programs and I have watched 2 of them. It appears exactly the same as before except that I now have 200 hrs of HD recording space.

Note that this is an 'Advanced format' drive using 4K instead of 512 sectors.
There are a few posts speculating on potential issues but I could not find posts with actual problems so I decided to 'suck it and see'.
I would be interested if anyone with knowledge of my version of the Linux kernel would care to comment on these 'advanced format' drives
.


----------



## unitron

BurnieM said:


> I have not seen any references to the WD10EURX so I thought I would comment on my experiences.
> 
> Drive info;
> Western Digital AV-GP Green Power WD10EURX-73FH1Y0
> Product of Malaysia
> 14 Feb 2012
> Purchased for AU$137
> 
> My TiVo is a TCD663160 (Australian TiVoHD) running software version 11.3b5-01-2-663 and purchased in March 2009.
> The old drive was a WD1600AVJS-63WNA0, Product of Thailand, 04 Jul 2008 and still working fine.
> The screws on the back of the case and on the disk tray were Torx T10 but the screws under the drive were T15.
> 
> I booted my PC standalone and ran WDIDLE3 on the new drive to find it was disabled out of the box.
> I used it to set the timer to both 8 and 300 seconds to establish that WDIDLE3 does work with this drive before setting it back to the default 'disabled'.
> 
> HDDScan said that AAM was not supported on this drive but not an issue as this drive is very quiet.
> 
> I ran the Seatools Long Generic test which took 2hr 30min to verify that the drive was fine.
> 
> I connected the old and new drives and ran WinMFS beta9.3g which took 44 min to copy my drive.
> I expanded the drive but did not SuperSize it.
> 
> The above was run on my Win XP SP3 PC (E5700 @ 3.00GHz with 2GB memory).
> 
> I placed the new drive in my TiVo and it booted normally.
> I soft booted it and it was fine (as you would expect with IDLE3 disabled).
> 
> It has only been running for 24 hours so this is not exactly an exhaustive test but it has recorded 6 programs and I have watched 2 of them. It appears exactly the same as before except that I now have 200 hrs of HD recording space.
> 
> Note that this is an 'Advanced format' drive using 4K instead of 512 sectors.
> There are a few posts speculating on potential issues but I could not find posts with actual problems so I decided to 'suck it and see'.
> I would be interested if anyone with knowledge of my version of the Linux kernel would care to comment on these 'advanced format' drives
> .


Did you utilize WinMFS's ability to provide a larger swap partition?


----------



## BurnieM

unitron said:


> Did you utilize WinMFS's ability to provide a larger swap partition?


No, I just left it standard


----------



## twoehr

unitron said:


> So there were no indications of anything wrong with the Premiere except the noise that turned out to be the fan?


Correct. When I was unplugging the TiVo I was thinking, that doesn't really sound like the HD and made a mental note of where I was hearing the sound come from. After I took the cover off I was like, "Hmmm. I thought the sound was on the right not the left, I think I should plug this in." Sure enough the drive purred and the fan sounded like my coffee grinder.

I am running the long test right now, it says 2 1/2 hr to complete. I did the quick test first and it did find write errors.

Thanks for quickly knowing the new drive might be the issue. Even though it said "write error" the process was "copying" and my brain was fixated on it being a source issue and not destination.


----------



## slowbiscuit

BurnieM said:


> No, I just left it standard


I've never changed swap size either and haven't had any issue with new drives in my two Tivo HDs (well, until my Hitachi 7K1000 1TB failed after a year and a half's use recently, but that's not because of swap).

What benefit is it supposed to provide, exactly? I've never noticed my HDs slowing down over time, so I don't see how a bigger swap would help with anything.


----------



## unitron

twoehr said:


> Correct. When I was unplugging the TiVo I was thinking, that doesn't really sound like the HD and made a mental note of where I was hearing the sound come from. After I took the cover off I was like, "Hmmm. I thought the sound was on the right not the left, I think I should plug this in." Sure enough the drive purred and the fan sounded like my coffee grinder.
> 
> I am running the long test right now, it says 2 1/2 hr to complete. I did the quick test first and it did find write errors.
> 
> Thanks for quickly knowing the new drive might be the issue. Even though it said "write error" the process was "copying" and my brain was fixated on it being a source issue and not destination.


Never trust new parts just because they're new.


----------



## unitron

slowbiscuit said:


> I've never changed swap size either and haven't had any issue with new drives in my two Tivo HDs (well, until my Hitachi 7K1000 1TB failed after a year and a half's use recently, but that's not because of swap).
> 
> What benefit is it supposed to provide, exactly? I've never noticed my HDs slowing down over time, so I don't see how a bigger swap would help with anything.


When the TiVo software needs to try to fix itself, having enough swap space can make the difference between success and an endless reboot loop, according to what I've read, and a 1GB swap partition is like 15 minutes of video, so it's not a great sacrifice.


----------



## twoehr

unitron said:


> Never trust new parts just because they're new.


I concur. Although this was the primary disk in an operable Win 7 PC, so I'm surprised it is damaged.

I ran the long check and it reported "Too many errors found", error code 0225, call for tech support. Nice. I'm curious to see what happens if I zero it out, so I'm letting it do that. I used to have a "super" disk tool that could fix anything. I have no idea where it is, or if it even works on this class of drives. It was from IDE and 40-100 GB drive days.

I'm not going to mess around with it much longer. Since my disk does work I'm not too concerned about it now. I presume I can use the 500 GB Seagate disk I was able to make successfully as a source for future attempts. I need to put this TiVo back into service before my family kills me.


----------



## unitron

twoehr said:


> I concur. Although this was the primary disk in an operable Win 7 PC, so I'm surprised it is damaged.
> 
> I ran the long check and it reported "Too many errors found", error code 0225, call for tech support. Nice. I'm curious to see what happens if I zero it out, so I'm letting it do that. I used to have a "super" disk tool that could fix anything. I have no idea where it is, or if it even works on this class of drives. It was from IDE and 40-100 GB drive days.
> 
> I'm not going to mess around with it much longer. Since my disk does work I'm not too concerned about it now. I presume I can use the 500 GB Seagate disk I was able to make successfully as a source for future attempts. I need to put this TiVo back into service before my family kills me.


Was that super disk tool Steve Gibson's Spinrite, by chance?

The current version is available for about $90.

It works at the level below formatting done by or for an operating system.

There's a free utility called testdisk that's great for fixing and recovering partions on PC/IBM/DOS formatted disks (the ones with MBRs instead of Apple Partiton Maps).


----------



## twoehr

unitron said:


> Was that super disk tool Steve Gibson's Spinrite, by chance?
> 
> The current version is available for about $90.
> 
> It works at the level below formatting done by or for an operating system.
> 
> There's a free utility called testdisk that's great for fixing and recovering partions on PC/IBM/DOS formatted disks (the ones with MBRs instead of Apple Partiton Maps).


It probably wasn't one of those, but just like it. The executable was something like sdisk or sfdisk. The claim to fame for us was using it to fix partitions that became corrupted that fdisk couldn't see or fix. I believe it was around the time of the first EIDE disks that needing the WD code for them to be fully visible by the PC. I think the problem was when you wanted to remove that, but I can't remember. I just know we though we had a systemic issue and were going to have to toss a lot of drives and then somebody found this program and it saved our a$$.

Anyway, the "long fix" is more than 50% of the way through and it hasn't said anything, yet. I think it gave up and stopped before it finished last time. I don't recall it going the full 2 1/2 hrs estimated.


----------



## unitron

twoehr said:


> It probably wasn't one of those, but just like it. The executable was something like sdisk or sfdisk. The claim to fame for us was using it to fix partitions that became corrupted that fdisk couldn't see or fix. I believe it was around the time of the first EIDE disks that needing the WD code for them to be fully visible by the PC. I think the problem was when you wanted to remove that, but I can't remember. I just know we though we had a systemic issue and were going to have to toss a lot of drives and then somebody found this program and it saved our a$$.
> 
> Anyway, the "long fix" is more than 50% of the way through and it hasn't said anything, yet. I think it gave up and stopped before it finished last time. I don't recall it going the full 2 1/2 hrs estimated.


That sounds more like an issue with Ontrack's Disk Manager (if I recall the name correctly) dynamic drive overlay software that let you use a bigger hard drive than your BIOS could recognize as long as your OS could handle it.

Each drive manufacturer had their own version so the name varied from brand to brand.


----------



## twoehr

twoehr said:


> Anyway, the "long fix" is more than 50% of the way through and it hasn't said anything, yet. I think it gave up and stopped before it finished last time. I don't recall it going the full 2 1/2 hrs estimated.


Its probably against some rule of etiquette to quote yourself, but i don't care.

The "long fix" finished with no errors. So, I've begun the copy again. It is past the point where it hung before. So knock on some silicon wafer, and I may be good.


----------



## twoehr

Mission Accomplished!

The copy completed last night. I was able to extended and supersize without a problem. (I like how fast that is. Didn't it take awhile to expand a drive in the Hinsdale days?) Popped the drive back in, with a greased up fan, and everything is quite and operational.

Thanks again for the diagnosis!


----------



## unitron

twoehr said:


> Mission Accomplished!
> 
> The copy completed last night. I was able to extended and supersize without a problem. (I like how fast that is. Didn't it take awhile to expand a drive in the Hinsdale days?) Popped the drive back in, with a greased up fan, and everything is quite and operational.
> 
> Thanks again for the diagnosis!


Congratulations, now when your family kills you for other reasons unrelated to the TiVo being out of service, they won't have to worry about having missed any of their shows.


----------



## twoehr

unitron said:


> Congratulations, now when your family kills you for other reasons unrelated to the TiVo being out of service, they won't have to worry about having missed any of their shows.


Exactly. Technology in the house is my husband/father job security. Once my kids can operate the TV and computer on their own I'll be on the doorstep.


----------



## unitron

twoehr said:


> Exactly. Technology in the house is my husband/father job security. Once my kids can operate the TV and computer on their own I'll be on the doorstep.


And you'll have what little remains of your now completely gray hair to keep you warm.


----------



## David Vaughn

Is there anywhere where one could download an image of a TCD 65800 hard drive? I tried replacing the drive with one from model TCD 652160 (non XL) and I can't get the service to activate (getting a hardware failure message).


----------



## unitron

David Vaughn said:


> Is there anywhere where one could download an image of a TCD 65800 hard drive? I tried replacing the drive with one from model TCD 652160 (non XL) and I can't get the service to activate (getting a hardware failure message).


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8956047#post8956047


----------



## David Vaughn

unitron said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8956047#post8956047


You are awesome! Thanks!


----------



## David Vaughn

OK...now that I have the image, what program do I use to create a new hard drive?

Thanks.


----------



## unitron

David Vaughn said:


> OK...now that I have the image, what program do I use to create a new hard drive?
> 
> Thanks.


That particular image, which has a .tbk extension instead of a .bak extension, needs to be restored to a drive by the WinMFS program.

Go to mfslive.org

That's where you can read about and get both the MFS Live bootable cd, which is what you would need for a .bak file, and the WinMFS program, which creates .tbk image files

Of course if you don't have a PC running Windows XP or newer, we'll have to figure something else out.


----------



## David Vaughn

I have a Win 7 machine. I assume I just "restore backup?"


----------



## unitron

David Vaughn said:


> I have a Win 7 machine. I assume I just "restore backup?"


You have to run WinMFS with admin rights for it to be able to see the drive.

Do not try looking at the drive with any other program after booting into Windows with the drive attached.

Run WinMFS, click on select drive, be sure you've got the correct drive selected, then click on "restore" and steer it toward the .tbk file.

If you're restoring to the XL's original 1TB drive, you won't be able to make the swap partition any larger if it offers that option, and if it shows the checkbox for partition layout, you want the one for Series 2 and up, but read it carefully because it's worded funny.

Once it starts the process, it can look as though it has frozen. It hasn't. Just wait for it to finish.


----------



## jasel

My situation is a little different than I could find in the FAQ. Here's what I have:

Searies 3 w/ original internal drive and 500gb expander. Starts to boot and have actually gotten it to start update but fails everytime before completing.

Series 3 w/orig internal and recent 1TB expander. Internal drive dead. when plugged in 4 lights and logo come on. Logo disappears and TV screen turns grey. Nothing else happens.

Dell desktop w/ Vista 64 and RAID 0 array

Thinkpad W520 w/docking station (eSATA connection) Win 7 64
Thermaltake single and dual docks w/ eSATA and USB (dual dock only recognizes both drive through USB).

No backups.

Would prefer to use laptop and docks rather than opening desktop.

Is it likely I might extract a backup from the failing drive? Or will I need instaCake (?) 

If I can get a backup, can I use it to upgrade both Series 3's?

How do I use the expanders with the upgraded drives? Do I need to get eSATA > USB adapter? Remove drive from enclosure?

Instead of fixing things when the first drive started failing, I just set it aside. Both boxes have lifetime service, so replacing them is not an option.

Thanks for any help.


----------



## unitron

jasel said:


> My situation is a little different than I could find in the FAQ. Here's what I have:
> 
> Searies 3 w/ original internal drive and 500gb expander. Starts to boot and have actually gotten it to start update but fails everytime before completing.
> 
> Series 3 w/orig internal and recent 1TB expander. Internal drive dead. when plugged in 4 lights and logo come on. Logo disappears and TV screen turns grey. Nothing else happens.
> 
> Dell desktop w/ Vista 64 and RAID 0 array
> 
> Thinkpad W520 w/docking station (eSATA connection) Win 7 64
> Thermaltake single and dual docks w/ eSATA and USB (dual dock only recognizes both drive through USB).
> 
> No backups.
> 
> Would prefer to use laptop and docks rather than opening desktop.
> 
> Is it likely I might extract a backup from the failing drive? Or will I need instaCake (?)
> 
> If I can get a backup, can I use it to upgrade both Series 3's?
> 
> How do I use the expanders with the upgraded drives? Do I need to get eSATA > USB adapter? Remove drive from enclosure?
> 
> Instead of fixing things when the first drive started failing, I just set it aside. Both boxes have lifetime service, so replacing them is not an option.
> 
> Thanks for any help.


I don't suppose you live anywhere in the Wilmington-New Bern-Morehead City area?

Maybe the eSATA connections will be sufficiently close to "bare metal" to work.

Are those both TCD648250s? TCD652160s? TCD658000s?

There are images available for all 3 without having to use IC.

You need to pull the internal drives and run WD's own diagnostic software long test, preferably from the bootable cd version.

You need to separate the questions of whether the drive itself is failing and whether the TiVo software on the drive has a problem.

If the long test can find and fix any problems, then maybe Kickstart 58 can fix the software afterward.

And you should see if you can't run the long test on the expanders as well.

Maybe even open up the enclosures and extract the drives.

The second one, the one that goes gray, seems to be unable to communicate with the internal drive, but we don't know why yet. Connector managed to come loose? Dead drive? Until you pick up a #10 Torx driver, who knows?

The first one, seems to communicate to some extent with the drive, you could try KS 58 before opening it up, but that internal drive ain't gettin' any younger, you still need to run the long test.

Also, the eSATA cables connecting the expanders could be at fault, or the jacks into which they plug.


----------



## Flappjakk

Hi all. I decided last week that I wanted to upgrade my TivoHDs with larger capacity drives. With HDD prices finally falling after that Thailand flood situation, I was able to purchase a Seagate 2TB drive from Newegg for a "reasonable" price. This 2TB drive replaces 2 Seagate 750GB drives I had in RAID 0 in my PC. I used these 2 750 GB drives to upgrade 2 of my TivoHDs. I used WinMFS on Windows 7 Professional x64 and it worked perfectly using "Run as Administrator" as recommended. I removed the original drive from my Master Bedroom TivoHD, copied the drive and expanded (MFS Supersize On) to the first 750 GB drive. I reinstalled the drive and powered up. I noticed immediatly that the new drive is quite a bit louder than the old drive. Googling revealed that I should have used MFSLive after the upgrade to hdparm -M 128 /dev/sdX to tone down the noise. So I upgraded the other TivoHD from my Livingroom using the same WinMFS strategy, then booted into MFSLive and successfully used the hdparm command. I installed the new drive in TivoHD #2. It boots up and is much quieter. I then took the drive out of the first TivoHD that I upgraded and ran the hdparm command to see this drive return an error saying something about this drive not supporting AAM. More Googling revealed that Seagate seems to no longer support AAM on their drives. FAQ 32 of this very thread also mentions this. Is there anyway to make AAM work on this drive? These 2 drives are both Seagate and somehow it worked on the first drive. One of these drives is newer than the other, so maybe the first was old enough to still have AAM capability? Is there any other way to adjust AAM on this drive, or am I stuck doing a switcheroo to put the quieter drive in my bedroom? Sorry for the long read. Thanks to all those who reply.


----------



## GoEagles

I have a 1TB WD Caviar Green drive that I want to put in my TiVoHD. The FAQ at the very front mentions a month of September when the Intellipark feature was implemented, but doesn't mention a year. My drive was manufactured in Jan 2009. Would I have to set it using the WDIDLE feature?

Thanks!


----------



## jasel

Took abut 8 hours and several tries but I finally got both Series 3 boxes up and running with 1tb drives.

Used my Thinkpad, dock, and eSata drive docks. 

The backup from the box that was faltering couldn't be used for the dead one. It left out subscription information and status code that only came from the "dead' drive. I managed to get it to backup after several tries only to find I still had to unmarry it from the expander.

Finally got a working backup and restored to the new drive and everything worked. 157hrs on each drive, so I'll probably just leave the expanders off for now rather than mess with them again, and adding another failure source to the mix. 

Thanks for the thread and FAQs. Couldn't have done it without them.


----------



## unitron

GoEagles said:


> I have a 1TB WD Caviar Green drive that I want to put in my TiVoHD. The FAQ at the very front mentions a month of September when the Intellipark feature was implemented, but doesn't mention a year. My drive was manufactured in Jan 2009. Would I have to set it using the WDIDLE feature?
> 
> Thanks!


Go here

http://www.ngohq.com/news/19805-critical-design-flaw-found-in-wd-caviar-green-hdds.html

Go down to where it says

*How to Adjust Intellipark's Timer*

Click on the

WDIDLE3 ISO image

link

to download the image and then burn yourself a copy.

Boot with the cd and run wdidle3 against the drive. Either it needs it done and that will do it, or you will find out it doesn't need it and no harm done.

You might want to get the WD diagnostic software and run the long test on that drive as well to make sure all is well before you put it in the TiVo and start trusting it to record stuff for you.

If that page isn't available, maybe the direct link will still work

http://files.ngohq.com/fs/wdidle3.iso


----------



## GoEagles

unitron said:


> Go here
> 
> http://www.ngohq.com/news/19805-critical-design-flaw-found-in-wd-caviar-green-hdds.html
> 
> Go down to where it says
> 
> *How to Adjust Intellipark's Timer*
> 
> Click on the
> 
> WDIDLE3 ISO image
> 
> link
> 
> to download the image and then burn yourself a copy.
> 
> Boot with the cd and run wdidle3 against the drive. Either it needs it done and that will do it, or you will find out it doesn't need it and no harm done.
> 
> You might want to get the WD diagnostic software and run the long test on that drive as well to make sure all is well before you put it in the TiVo and start trusting it to record stuff for you.
> 
> If that page isn't available, maybe the direct link will still work
> 
> http://files.ngohq.com/fs/wdidle3.iso


Thanks for the information, I have just two notebooks, so I have to find a PC to pull this off.

Thanks!


----------



## hoyty

My parents S3 original drive went belly up this week. Being a good son I am trying to prep a drive to take to them. Since I am short on time I went to Best Buy and picked up a Retail WD 1 TB Green drive. It is WDBAAY0010HNC-NRSN on package and a WD10EARX on drive label. According to WD this drive has Advanced Format enabled. I have a WinMFS S3 backup of 11.0f that I am trying to use to restore. I restore with WinMFS and add space to fill 1 TB. At first it wouldn't get beyond Powering Up, but WDIDLE3 got me past that. Then it got to Almost There / Ready Set Go and then rebooted. After reboot it went to green screen. I have tried both with AF jumper on and off and it doesn't seem to make any difference. Luckily I have a WD10EACS and WD10EADS in a Windows Media Center that I am going to swap with this new drive and hopefully that will work. Just wanted to share my experiences in case anyone else comes across them. Getting good drives for the S3 / TiVoHD seems harder every day due to aging architecture / OS-Kernel.


----------



## ThAbtO

I believe the advance format works in a PC on a single partition and not on multiple partitions unless you download a utility from WDC.com

Tivo uses multiple partitions.

Http://Support.wdc.com/product/downloadsw.asp?sid=128


----------



## unitron

hoyty said:


> My parents S3 original drive went belly up this week. Being a good son I am trying to prep a drive to take to them. Since I am short on time I went to Best Buy and picked up a Retail WD 1 TB Green drive. It is WDBAAY0010HNC-NRSN on package and a WD10EARX on drive label. According to WD this drive has Advanced Format enabled. I have a WinMFS S3 backup of 11.0f that I am trying to use to restore. I restore with WinMFS and add space to fill 1 TB. At first it wouldn't get beyond Powering Up, but WDIDLE3 got me past that. Then it got to Almost There / Ready Set Go and then rebooted. After reboot it went to green screen. I have tried both with AF jumper on and off and it doesn't seem to make any difference. Luckily I have a WD10EACS and WD10EADS in a Windows Media Center that I am going to swap with this new drive and hopefully that will work. Just wanted to share my experiences in case anyone else comes across them. Getting good drives for the S3 / TiVoHD seems harder every day due to aging architecture / OS-Kernel.


The EADS should work just fine, it's not a 4K sector drive. The EACS might be, the 20EACS (2TB version) is.

Which one has the C: partition?

Burn yourself a copy of the MFS Live cd, then use

dd_rescue

with the -v option (so you can see what's going on)

to "Xerox" the EADS to the EARX

Then make sure the EARX works in the WMC computer.

If it does, go ahead and use WinMFS to restore to the EADS, and specify a swap partition size of 512 (that's only about 7 or 8 minutes of video, cheap insurance if the TiVo ever needs the space to fix something).

Just be sure at all times you keep track of which drive is which, especially when you boot with the MFS Live cd and it's all /dev/sda and /dev/sdb and such. Don't have any drives connected that you don't need to at any given time.


----------



## hoyty

Well scratch everything I said due to bad backup. Apparently the WinMFS backup I made was bad it seems. I found a 648.tbk in another thread from unitron and restored that and it booted fine. Not sure how I got a bad backup but it was only about 250 MB as opposed to the other one at 300 MB. Apparently the 4K drives work fine in Series 3. I booted it in my S3 and will try it out in my parents tomorrow.


----------



## unitron

hoyty said:


> Well scratch everything I said due to bad backup. Apparently the WinMFS backup I made was bad it seems. I found a 648.tbk in another thread from unitron and restored that and it booted fine. Not sure how I got a bad backup but it was only about 250 MB as opposed to the other one at 300 MB. Apparently the 4K drives work fine in Series 3. I booted it in my S3 and will try it out in my parents tomorrow.


Are you saying that the EARX works in a TiVo?

How have you got it jumpered?


----------



## hoyty

unitron said:


> Are you saying that the EARX works in a TiVo?
> 
> How have you got it jumpered?


Yep, I only tested it for a few hours to make sure it booted and connected to service ok. I have now done a C&D to prep for install in it new permanent home tonight.

I didn't put any jumpers on it, left it in out of box state.


----------



## Nicholsen

unitron said:


> The EADS should work just fine, it's not a 4K sector drive. The EACS might be, the 20EACS (2TB version) is.
> 
> .......
> 
> If it does, go ahead and use WinMFS to restore to the EADS, and specify a swap partition size of 512 (that's only about 7 or 8 minutes of video, cheap insurance if the TiVo ever needs the space to fix something).


Unitron:

1. Many thanks for sharing your extensive knowledge. Your posts are invaluable.

2. I managed to resurrect two TiVo HD units (one of which I got for free with a dead HD) with different versions of the older WD 1.5TB green drives. I was also able to save my old programs on a failing 160 GB original HD, and encourage anyone on the fence who has basic PC hardware skills to give the DIY route a try.

3. Can you explain your recommendation to increase the swap space to 512. Does that 1) make disk recovery possible when it would not be otherwise in an expanded disk, 2) make disk recovery significantly faster than it would be otherwise on an expanded disk and/or 3) improve performance when in normal use? Can that the swap space be increased after the expansion has been completed?

Best Regards!


----------



## unitron

Nicholsen said:


> Unitron:
> 
> 1. Many thanks for sharing your extensive knowledge. Your posts are invaluable.
> 
> 2. I managed to resurrect two TiVo HD units (one of which I got for free with a dead HD) with different versions of the older WD 1.5TB green drives. I was also able to save my old programs on a failing 160 GB original HD, and encourage anyone on the fence who has basic PC hardware skills to give the DIY route a try.
> 
> 3. Can you explain your recommendation to increase the swap space to 512. Does that 1) make disk recovery possible when it would not be otherwise in an expanded disk, 2) make disk recovery significantly faster than it would be otherwise on an expanded disk and/or 3) improve performance when in normal use? Can that the swap space be increased after the expansion has been completed?
> 
> Best Regards!


Okay, this is not my area of expertise by a long shot.

Apparently the TiVo software can get mangled sometimes, and sometimes the TiVo can repair that, and needs the swap partition as extra working space while doing it. The bigger the drive, supposedly, the bigger the swap space needed, and if it doesn't have enough it gets stuck in a reboot loop.

Back in the early days of drive "embiggening", the pioneers worked out a rule of thumb of 1MB of swap for every 2GB of drive.

I don't know how they came up with it, but I figure they know a lot more than I do about it.

Is it still necessary? I don't know, but 1GB, or 1000MB, (which you'd use on a 2TB drive) is only about 15 minutes of best quality video, so I figure it's cheap insurance.

MFS Live and WinMFS can make bigger swap partitions during the restore process, prior to any expansion by partition addition, but jmfs cannot.


----------



## Tallshark

Saw at the beginning of this post/faq the upgrade options. None was just adding a second internal drive. Didn't see any post in search. So is this that stupid of a question? Can I just add a second internal drive and not have to put up with a giant (giant for bedroom setup) external box with 2 more wires, or having to swap drives back and forth from computer (to keep recorded shows) to install one larger drive?

Thanks!

P.S.
Almost forgot, it is a tivo hd.

P.S.S.
Been a Tivo head since single tuner series 2 came out.


----------



## lpwcomp

Tallshark said:


> Saw at the beginning of this post/faq the upgrade options. None was just adding a second internal drive. Didn't see any post in search. So is this that stupid of a question? Can I just add a second internal drive and not have to put up with a giant (giant for bedroom setup) external box with 2 more wires, or having to swap drives back and forth from computer (to keep recorded shows) to install one larger drive?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> P.S.
> Almost forgot, it is a tivo hd.
> 
> P.S.S.
> Been a Tivo head since single tuner series 2 came out.


No room. No power. No connector. No s/w support. Need more?


----------



## unitron

Tallshark said:


> Saw at the beginning of this post/faq the upgrade options. None was just adding a second internal drive. Didn't see any post in search. So is this that stupid of a question? Can I just add a second internal drive and not have to put up with a giant (giant for bedroom setup) external box with 2 more wires, or having to swap drives back and forth from computer (to keep recorded shows) to install one larger drive?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> P.S.
> Almost forgot, it is a tivo hd.
> 
> P.S.S.
> Been a Tivo head since single tuner series 2 came out.


Second drive on a Series 3 or 4 doesn't work like the second drive on an S1 or S2.

On an S1 or S2, if the media partitions on the first drive don't have enough room left, shows go on the partion(s) on the second drive.

S3 and S4, each show recorded gets put partly on the first drive and partly on the second, so if either drive fails you lose everything recorded since the second drive was added. It's one of those DRM things to keep the content providers happy.

Adding a second drive is thought by many to double the chance of drive failure.

Better to copy your S3 HD's original drive to a larger one and set the original aside on the shelf.

You can probably get a lot more GB per $ buying a bigger internal drive than either of the WD externals that are the only ones which will work with the S3s and S4s.

What kind of spare drives have you got lying around?


----------



## lpwcomp

unitron said:


> Second drive on a Series 3 or 4 doesn't work like the second drive on an S1 or S2.
> 
> On an S1 or S2, if the media partitions on the first drive don't have enough room left, shows go on the partion(s) on the second drive.
> 
> S3 and S4, each show recorded gets put partly on the first drive and partly on the second, so if either drive fails you lose everything recorded since the second drive was added. It's one of those DRM things to keep the content providers happy.
> 
> Adding a second drive is thought by many to double the chance of drive failure.
> 
> Better to copy your S3 HD's original drive to a larger one and set the original aside on the shelf.
> 
> You can probably get a lot more GB per $ buying a bigger internal drive than either of the WD externals that are the only ones which will work with the S3s and S4s.
> 
> What kind of spare drives have you got lying around?


He wasn't asking about the advantages of changing the internal drive vs. adding a second drive, he was asking why he couldn't install an additional *internal* drive instead of an _*external*_ drive.


----------



## Yuterald

Is it that it's been 'that' long since Tivo HD users have had to upgrade their HDs? I ask since the first page has only a handful of 1TB drives to use and the prices for those are outrageous. Anyone try a 'newer' 1TB drive and have success? At this point I've had some issues (I think it's the external WD Book) so I think I'll get a 1TB drive 'just in case'.


----------



## unitron

lpwcomp said:


> He wasn't asking about the advantages of changing the internal drive vs. adding a second drive, he was asking why he couldn't install an additional *internal* drive instead of an _*external*_ drive.


If you don't mind doing a lot of jury-rigging, you can put a second drive inside an S3 HD, but it'll be the equivalent of an external as far as how the TiVo treats it.

As I point out, it's not the same as adding a slave on the S2 or S2 IDE cable.


----------



## lpwcomp

unitron said:


> If you don't mind doing a lot of jury-rigging, you can put a second drive inside an S3 HD, but it'll be the equivalent of an external as far as how the TiVo treats it.
> 
> As I point out, it's not the same as adding a slave on the S2 or S2 IDE cable.


Has _anyone_ actually done this? Assuming you can actually cram a second drive in there, it's still a _*Really.Bad.Idea*_ just on the basis of the additional load on the power supply and the additional heat. You would not just be adding the heat of the drive, you would be adversely affecting the air flow.

My point was that he already understood the arguments of changing the main drive vs. adding a second drive. The difference in the way an S1/S2 treats an additional drive vs. an S3/S4 is irrelevant, as is how they are connected (PATA vs. SATA).


----------



## unitron

lpwcomp said:


> Has _anyone_ actually done this? Assuming you can actually cram a second drive in there, it's still a _*Really.Bad.Idea*_ just on the basis of the additional load on the power supply and the additional heat. You would not just be adding the heat of the drive, you would be adversely affecting the air flow.
> 
> My point was that he already understood the arguments of changing the main drive vs. adding a second drive. The difference in the way an S1/S2 treats an additional drive vs. an S3/S4 is irrelevant, as is how they are connected (PATA vs. SATA).


So he came here to ask a bunch of questions to which he already knew the answers?


----------



## lpwcomp

unitron said:


> So he came here to ask a bunch of questions to which he already knew the answers?


Um, no. He was asking why there were no instructions/discussion about adding an additional *internal* drive. He wants the additional capacity w/o replacing the existing drive or adding to the clutter.

I think the bottom line is a combination of both of our second posts on the subject - with a lot of jury-rigging , you can install a second "internal" drive. This is probably more work than that involved in creating a larger replacement internal drive and is A.Really.Bad.Idea.


----------



## unitron

lpwcomp said:


> Um, no. He was asking why there were no instructions/discussion about adding an additional *internal* drive. He wants the additional capacity w/o replacing the existing drive or adding to the clutter.
> 
> I think the bottom line is a combination of both of our second posts on the subject - with a lot of jury-rigging , you can install a second "internal" drive. This is probably more work than that involved in creating a larger replacement internal drive and is A.Really.Bad.Idea.


I said putting a second drive inside an S3 HD is possible, and elsewhere I've even mentioned how to tap off power for it, but that's not the same as recommending that anyone actually do so, or thinking that it's a good idea.

Allow me to state for the record:

*It is not a good idea*.

Considering the way recordings are split on S3s and S4s, I don't consider a second drive a good idea no matter where it's located.

Unless it's located inside a computer running TiVo Desktop or something else that can make back up copies of the shows the TiVo records.

That I consider a good idea.

Besides, as I understand it, you can't easily use an approved external on an S3 HD and have a larger than stock internal anyway, so you can get more space replacing the internal with a 2TB instead. (secret recipe available upon request)


----------



## lpwcomp

unitron said:


> I said putting a second drive inside an S3 HD is possible, and elsewhere I've even mentioned how to tap off power for it, but that's not the same as recommending that anyone actually do so, or thinking that it's a good idea.


I never thought you were recommending it. Shall we agree to, well, agree?

I also agree with you on the adding another drive option - if you are going to go that route, add it to your computer. You can get a lot more space that way and you don't add another point of failure to your TiVo.

Current drive prices being what they are, adding space in any manner is a bit expensive. Unfortunately, the latest word is that it will likely remain that way at least through this year.


----------



## Soapm

lpwcomp said:


> Current drive prices being what they are, adding space in any manner is a bit expensive. Unfortunately, the latest word is that it will likely remain that way at least through this year.


It's a shame too, I'm to the point where my RIAD5 could use another 2TB.


----------



## ThAbtO

lpwcomp said:


> Current drive prices being what they are, adding space in any manner is a bit expensive. Unfortunately, the latest word is that it will likely remain that way at least through this year.


They are seemingly coming down in prices @amazon.com:

WD20EARX $119.99
WD10EARX $99.99
Seagate ST2000DM001 $109.99


----------



## slowbiscuit

As I said recently in this thread, there are cheaper ways to add a terabyte or so - namely, getting a deal on a USB expansion drive and removing it from the case. I got a Seagate Green 1.5TB drive for less than $70 total a month ago (pulled from a Freeagent GoFlex Desk) and it works fine in my Premiere. Very quiet drive, model # is ST1500DL001.


----------



## Flappjakk

Tivo made my choice quite easy. After less than a week, the Tivo in my bedroom with the loud drive started soft rebooting. I put the original drive back in, now it's both quiet and stable again. I'm considering using this drive to upgrade a Series 3 that is not in anyone's bedroom so the extra noise wouldn't be that big of a deal.

What typically causes reboots and other similar problems after an internal drive upgrade? Is it usually the result of a bad copy or something else going wrong in the process? The drive is fairly new so I doubt it's failing, but I guess it's not impossible. Does anyone have any ideas? Thanks again to all who reply.


----------



## steve614

First, get the diagnostic software from the hard drive manufacturer, and test the drive.
Hard drive failure is unpredictable. Some last 10+ years, and some don't.

Another problem could be that the upgraded hard drive puts more current demand on the power supply. If the power supply is getting weak due to failing capacitors, that could be a cause for reboots and other weird symptoms.


----------



## Tallshark

unitron said:


> So he came here to ask a bunch of questions to which he already knew the answers?


 Kinda,  I do know that a second drive doubles chance of failure and that data is split between drives so one failure means (for the most part) all shows are lost. I was just asking if a second internal was possible. Sounds like there might not be any physical room? At one point it was no room, other time it was a heat issue. Sounds possible anyways, but not plugNplay.

After reading all this and taking it all in, my decision is (drum roll please), to go through the hassle of replacing internal with a bigger drive. Cuz I really don't want an external drive, and with not being able to just plug-in and go, I might as well just replace. Copying isn't THAT much of a hassle. I'll schedule it between outside spring clean-up, painting 3 rooms, knocking down the pool, .... 

unitron and lpwcomp, THANKS!!! so much for your lively discussion.


----------



## lpwcomp

Tallshark said:


> Kinda,
> 
> After reading all this and taking it all in, my decision is (drum roll please), to go through the hassle of replacing internal with a bigger drive. Cuz I really don't want an external drive, and with not being able to just plug-in and go, I might as well just replace. Copying isn't THAT much of a hassle. I'll schedule it between outside spring clean-up, painting 3 rooms, knocking down the pool, ....


To be fair(?), I don't believe it was ever possible to take a drive off the shelf and drop it in as a second internal drive. It had to be prepared(BlessTiVo).


----------



## unitron

lpwcomp said:


> To be fair(?), I don't believe it was ever possible to take a drive off the shelf and drop it in as a second internal drive. It had to be prepared(BlessTiVo).


Yeah, whether S1 and S2 PATA/IDE controller Master and Slave without the shows each being split, or the S3 and S4 SATA and eSATA internal and external scheme, the additional drive always has to be "married" to the first in order to work and be recognized.


----------



## Flappjakk

Thanks for the reply steve614, sometimes the most obvious troubleshooting steps are the easiest to forget. I downloaded the Seagate diagnostic iso and the long test is running now. I'll check the results in the morning.


----------



## Yuterald

Ok - it seems my post got 'lost' in the discussion on the prior page (or ignored or no one had an answer but just in case..) I'm posting it again: Is it that it's been 'that' long since Tivo HD users have had to upgrade their HDs? I ask since the first page has only a handful of 1TB drives to use and the prices for those are outrageous. Anyone try a 'newer' 1TB drive and have success? At this point I've had some issues (I think it's the external WD Book) so I think I'll get a 1TB drive 'just in case'.


----------



## lpwcomp

Yuterald said:


> Ok - it seems my post got 'lost' in the discussion on the prior page (or ignored or no one had an answer but just in case..) I'm posting it again: Is it that it's been 'that' long since Tivo HD users have had to upgrade their HDs? I ask since the first page has only a handful of 1TB drives to use and the prices for those are outrageous. Anyone try a 'newer' 1TB drive and have success? At this point I've had some issues (I think it's the external WD Book) so I think I'll get a 1TB drive 'just in case'.


The prices for all drives are currently outrageous.


----------



## Yuterald

lpwcomp said:


> The prices for all drives are currently outrageous.


While the prices have gone way up and then have come down some - my question was regarding model numbers. Thanks!


----------



## Flappjakk

Flappjakk said:


> Thanks for the reply steve614, sometimes the most obvious troubleshooting steps are the easiest to forget. I downloaded the Seagate diagnostic iso and the long test is running now. I'll check the results in the morning.


The Long test completed this morning without errors. I also ran the Short Test, which seems to be a subset of the Long Test, and it too passed. There is another test called acoustic test, which just idles the drive, then brings it back, it did what it says it does and passed. I guess I can assume the drive is ok? The drive is a Seagate 750GB model number ST3750640AS.


----------



## steve614

Flappjakk said:


> The Long test completed this morning without errors. I also ran the Short Test, which seems to be a subset of the Long Test, and it too passed. There is another test called acoustic test, which just idles the drive, then brings it back, it did what it says it does and passed. I guess I can assume the drive is ok? The drive is a Seagate 750GB model number ST3750640AS.


If the drive passed the manufacturer diagnostics, I would probably assume it was okay.

The next thing you should do is to check the Tivo it used to be in. Visually inspect the power supply (unplug the Tivo, of course).
If you see any bulging capacitors, that could be why it started randomly rebooting.
Putting the original hard drive back in may have seemed to fix it, but that could be because it puts less demand on the power supply.
If the power supply is going bad it will only get worse, and the original drive may start randomly rebooting as well.


----------



## S3-2501

I had a WD10EVDS in my Tivo HD die on me back on the 6th (would no longer power on/spin up) almost exactly two years after I first installed it. Thankfully, the drive came with a three year warranty. I was able to perform the entire RMA process online from WD's site, including purchasing a prepaid UPS label to send the drive to them. I dropped it off with UPS on the 9th, and I received my replacement drive yesterday, the 17th.

Instead of another WD10EVDS, they upgraded me to a WD20EVDS! Though the drive I got is re-certified and not new, the date (presumably of the re-certification) on the drive label is only from a few weeks ago.

I followed the steps outlined here to migrate the Tivo's original drive to the 2TB replacement using JMFS and then supersized with WinMFS. The process went smoothly, and it passed the cold boot/soft reboot test without having to muck around with WDIDLE.

My only concern is that a re-certified drive may be less reliable, but it only cost me the price of shipping the dead drive to them (less than $10) and my recording space is now double what it was.

I hope this information will be of use to anyone who has upgraded (or is planning to upgrade) using a Western Digital AV drive, or another drive with a longer warranty.

A big thanks to everyone here in these forums who has provided the tools, instructions and first-hand experience that make maintaining and upgrading a Tivo a real possibility for anyone willing to give it a try!:up:


----------



## Flappjakk

Thanks again steve614. That drive was too loud for my bedroom, so I don't think I'm going to mess around with that Tivo anymore. I do have a Series 3 in my basement that I might upgrade with this drive instead. A little extra noise in my basement isn't going to be a big deal. When I have it open, I'll check the capacitors to see if any of them look like they are about to die. Thanks for your replies.


----------



## KTinCA

Hey Everyone,
This forum was a huge help, so just wanted to post my experience upgrading my Series 3 hard drive using a new Segate Pipeline.

Used winmfs on a Win 7 64bit system to image the original 250 MB drive onto a new Seagate Pipeline 1tb drive. Went flawlessly. Only issue was that the channel update got gummed up when it tried to update the channels (showed "failed" when it tried to update online). Problem was solved by doing the erase and restart (of just the channel and season pass info). No soft boot or hard boot issues with the drive.

The Seagate model is the ST1000VM002SP. One of their new single platter/64mb cache pipeline drives specifically meant for DVR applications. I have to say I'm very impressed so far, it is almost dead quite even when recording. I have to be within 2 feet of it to even tell it is on and then only is barely audible even when actively recording. It might be acceptable for a bedroom system is is so quite. Drive was also supersized and now says it has up to 143 HD hours available for recordings (which seems less than what others have reported, but I'm not complaining). Had just transferred all my recordings from the dying 250mb drive to my HP media server and then transferred them back after I gave the new drive a day or two to catch its breath... been running for 3 weeks now and all is still good.

Thanks to all the people who posted upgrade info.


----------



## KTinCA

Oh, in answer to YUTERALD's question from several days ago the 1tb Seagate Pipeline was about $110 which is more expensive than it was before the floods, but not really highway robbery for a specialized DVR/AV drive.

Note, to those who are debating using a specalized AV drive... Do it... Unless you have a free drive sitting around unused for some reason. These things are meant to run 24 hours a day and have a very specific error correction mode that is unique to them. Just realize if you ever cannibalize your TiVo at a later date you should *not* use the AV drive in a NAS/server or regular computer. The above mentioned error correction mode makes them pretty incompatible with regular computers and such...


----------



## oldskoolboarder

My Series 3 750GB finally bit the dust. I had to resort to 'Spindrive' it a few months ago and knew it was on it's last legs but had to wait until HDD prices dropped from the flood.

I've limited myself to using Instantcake because that's what I have, from a h/w and s/w standpoint. My house is OSX and I keep an OLD desktop with IDE (and a SATA adapter) just for Tivo repair.

I found some WD AV-GP drives and I saw both 1 TB and 2 TB. The price diff is quite small.

Can someone tell me what's the max HDD size I can use w/ Instantcake? IIRC, I saw mention of 1.2TB max (which is OK w/ me) but want to check here. If I can get >1TB, I can live w/ 'wasting' a bit of space on the HDD.

Thanks.


----------



## unitron

oldskoolboarder said:


> My Series 3 750GB finally bit the dust. I had to resort to 'Spindrive' it a few months ago and knew it was on it's last legs but had to wait until HDD prices dropped from the flood.
> 
> I've limited myself to using Instantcake because that's what I have, from a h/w and s/w standpoint. My house is OSX and I keep an OLD desktop with IDE (and a SATA adapter) just for Tivo repair.
> 
> I found some WD AV-GP drives and I saw both 1 TB and 2 TB. The price diff is quite small.
> 
> Can someone tell me what's the max HDD size I can use w/ Instantcake? IIRC, I saw mention of 1.2TB max (which is OK w/ me) but want to check here. If I can get >1TB, I can live w/ 'wasting' a bit of space on the HDD.
> 
> Thanks.


You might want to look at the sticker on the back of the TiVo and find the model number that starts with TCD and give us all of it so that we're sure we're talking about the same model.

And you can probably skip having to use Instant Cake, there are images available for the original S3, the S3 HD and the HD XL in the image begging thread, as well as some S1 and S2 images.

If you have Windows XP or newer on that old PC, you can use WinMFS to restore, or you can boot it from the MFS Live cd v1.4.

Both are available free at mfslive.org (you'll have to burn the cd yourself).

As far as I know, the original S3 is limited to 1.2TB, and can use a 1.5TB drive for it, but may not be able to even recognize a 2TB no matter how much or little of it is used.

The S3 HD and HD XL can use a 2TB drive, but that involves downloading and burning a copy of jmfs v1.04, and maybe a couple of other tricks first.

So tell us your model number.


----------



## oldskoolboarder

unitron said:


> So tell us your model number.


TCD648250B

Also, interested in some opinions. I have the original, untouched 250GB HDD from this S3 that I pulled when I upped the drive to 750GB. I can put that in to get it running. THEN, I have 2 WD MyDVR expander 'housings' that can populate with a new 1TB drive. The reason that I have these is that my inlaws used 2 of them on their Tivos and both of them DIED. I can use it w/ my 250GB internal to probably get more than 1TB of space. HOWEVER, my biggest concern is the there would be 2 points of failure, which is likely since both of these things died in their previous life. Do you folks think it's worth it to go w/ the expander or just use a single internal 1TB? I'm leaning towards 1TB internal for reliability, but I'm open to hearing opinions.


----------



## steve614

My opinion?
Use the biggest internal that the Tivo will recognize.
Do not use an external.


----------



## bareyb

steve614 said:


> My opinion?
> Use the biggest internal that the Tivo will recognize.
> Do not use an external.


Agreed. If you have the skilz, go internal. External drives just add one more point of failure.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

bareyb said:


> Agreed. If you have the skilz, go internal. External drives just add one more point of failure.


Several points of failure....
power supply of external enclosure
jack on either side of the cable leading to the enclosure
drive inside the enclosure
the cable itself


----------



## bareyb

One more thing to troubleshoot.


----------



## dbong1021

So my Tivo S3 drive is starting to pixelate and lock up. Rebooting will get it back up but it will eventually lock up again. I went and bought a WD10EARS from Amazon last night and will be using winMFS to clone the drive. 

Question though on cloning a bad drive like my existing one is turning into. Is that going to copy over any negative aspects and therefore cause issues with my new drive? Or is the bad drive theoretically fine but physical issues causing it to pixelate, lock up, etc?


----------



## drhankz

dbong1021 said:


> So my Tivo S3 drive is starting to pixelate and lock up. Rebooting will get it back up but it will eventually lock up again. I went and bought a WD10EARS from Amazon last night and will be using winMFS to clone the drive.
> 
> Question though on cloning a bad drive like my existing one is turning into. Is that going to copy over any negative aspects and therefore cause issues with my new drive? Or is the bad drive theoretically fine but physical issues causing it to pixelate, lock up, etc?


Cloning any drive that is having problems is a BIGGER problem


----------



## dbong1021

drhankz said:


> Cloning any drive that is having problems is a BIGGER problem


 that's my fear so I'm glad I asked. Any details on why this is? And also what is my best route if I really want to preserve my recordings and season passes?


----------



## drhankz

dbong1021 said:


> that's my fear so I'm glad I asked. Any details on why this is? And also what is my best route if I really want to preserve my recordings and season passes?


Just write them DOWN and START from Scratch.

As an Electrical Engineer - we always had a saying.

*"Garbage In Equals Garbage Out"*


----------



## blacknoi

So I might have to replace my Tivo S3 (original with the OLEDs on the front) drive.

What 1TB drives these days are compatible still with the original S3?

Will a Western Digital WD10EADS work?

It's been years since I had to research it and the thread doesn't make it too obvious as to which are good in the HD vs the orignal S3.

Any help is appreciated.

Should have bought a 2nd backup drive years ago.....

EDIT: Grabbed a 1TB from dvr_dude on ebay. Will see what model it is once I get it. Hopefully I can recover the system info from the current drive. Would hate to redo my season passes. I can live with the lost recordings...


----------



## unitron

blacknoi said:


> So I might have to replace my Tivo S3 (original with the OLEDs on the front) drive.
> 
> What 1TB drives these days are compatible still with the original S3?
> 
> Will a Western Digital WD10EADS work?
> 
> It's been years since I had to research it and the thread doesn't make it too obvious as to which are good in the HD vs the orignal S3.
> 
> Any help is appreciated.
> 
> Should have bought a 2nd backup drive years ago.....
> 
> EDIT: Grabbed a 1TB from dvr_dude on ebay. Will see what model it is once I get it. Hopefully I can recover the system info from the current drive. Would hate to redo my season passes. I can live with the lost recordings...


I've got a 20EADS working just fine in an S3 HD.

Wish I could get my hands on about a dozen more brand new full retail box ones at a decent price, or even a mildly indecent one.

edited to add: If you use the EADS, you might need to run wdidle3 to disable Intellipark


----------



## ThreeSoFar

dbong1021 said:


> that's my fear so I'm glad I asked. Any details on why this is? And also what is my best route if I really want to preserve my recordings and season passes?


The other guy is clueless. Ignore him. He's entirely 100% wrong.

You should proceed with your plan to dupe it soonest. Worst case the new drive is useless due to corrupt data, in which case you just need to find an image someplace to start from scratch. YOu cannot hurt the new drive with a restore attempt.

You won't know until the new drive boots and you see how it behaves. But the likelihood that any bad portions of the transfer are in the OS itself is very small. You should use the ddrescue capability (not sure if winmfs has that or uses it natively or not, I always use the LiveCD linux tools).


----------



## dbong1021

ThreeSoFar said:


> The other guy is clueless. Ignore him. He's entirely 100% wrong.
> 
> You should proceed with your plan to dupe it soonest. Worst case the new drive is useless due to corrupt data, in which case you just need to find an image someplace to start from scratch. YOu cannot hurt the new drive with a restore attempt.
> 
> You won't know until the new drive boots and you see how it behaves. But the likelihood that any bad portions of the transfer are in the OS itself is very small. You should use the ddrescue capability (not sure if winmfs has that or uses it natively or not, I always use the LiveCD linux tools).


Appreciate the response!

I'm thinking he meant that copying my bad drive would mean copying bad things over to my new drive - not so much that it would physically hurt my new drive.

But anyways, your point is taken. I'll read up on the ddrescue and just give it a shot. Worst thing is that I have to yank the drive again and redo w/ a clean image instead of an image of my current drive.


----------



## unitron

dbong1021 said:


> Appreciate the response!
> 
> I'm thinking he meant that copying my bad drive would mean copying bad things over to my new drive - not so much that it would physically hurt my new drive.
> 
> But anyways, your point is taken. I'll read up on the ddrescue and just give it a shot. Worst thing is that I have to yank the drive again and redo w/ a clean image instead of an image of my current drive.


The handy to have MFS Live cd v1.4 has

dd_rescue

on it which is quite similar to

ddrescue

(both are fancy versions of dd)

I recommend it with the -v option so that it reports what it's doing as it does it.


----------



## ccrider2

dbong1021 said:


> that's my fear so I'm glad I asked. Any details on why this is? And also what is my best route if I really want to preserve my recordings and season passes?


I've never tried this, but I've read in this thread that by doing something online at Tivo.com, before you tear it down, enables the TiVo to fetch your passes from them. Like I said, never figured this out, perhaps others that have, will chime-in with some advice.


----------



## Teeps

dbong1021 said:


> <snip>
> Question though on cloning a bad drive like my existing one is turning into.
> Is the bad drive theoretically fine but physical issues causing it to pixelate, lock up, etc? <snip>


This has been my experience with failing drives in TiVo S1 and S3.

On my S3 I did a bit for bit copy from the OEM W/D drive to a Seagate Barracuda (of the same size.) TiVo not only liked the new drive, but the 1TB extension drive still worked and all data was saved.

You have nothing to lose, by cloning, other than the time if it does not work; which I'm 98% sure it will work.

Your choice...


----------



## dbong1021

Teeps said:


> This has been my experience with failing drives in TiVo S1 and S3.
> 
> On my S3 I did a bit for bit copy from the OEM W/D drive to a Seagate Barracuda (of the same size.) TiVo not only liked the new drive, but the 1TB extension drive still worked and all data was saved.
> 
> You have nothing to lose, by cloning, other than the time if it does not work; which I'm 98% sure it will work.
> 
> Your choice...


I wish there was a 100% sure answer  But thanks for your feedback and I will likely just clone the drive after I run it through the tests/tools suggested above.

Worst comes to worse I just yank the new drive, format, and start from scratch.


----------



## unitron

One thing that might help is to take out the original drive, wrap a couple of thicknesses of paper towel around it and put it in the freezer at least overnight right up until you're ready to copy it.

Paper towel protects your hands when you take it out and keeps the cold metal from condensing water vapor onto itself.

Take it off and keep the drive out where it can get plenty of cooling airflow during the copy process.


----------



## Teeps

dbong1021 said:


> I wish there was a 100% sure answer  But thanks for your feedback and I will likely just clone the drive after I run it through the tests/tools suggested above.
> 
> Worst comes to worse I just yank the new drive, format, and start from scratch.


It's kind of like the question that was asked about hard drive durability. There are "no sure things."

In this case you have nothing (but a little time) to lose and everything to gain.

Go forth copy, clone or dd that failing drive... feedback always welcome.


----------



## blacknoi

unitron said:


> I've got a 20EADS working just fine in an S3 HD.
> 
> Wish I could get my hands on about a dozen more brand new full retail box ones at a decent price, or even a mildly indecent one.
> 
> edited to add: If you use the EADS, you might need to run wdidle3 to disable Intellipark


Thanks for the info.

As time went on, turns out it appears to be the power supply (started as a reboot loop, then I unplugged it. Now I only hear a faint ticking when I plug it back in... nothing further, no lights, no nothing other than tick tick tick coming from the power supply side of the tivo).

Ebay virtually has no original S3's on there. Wow... is the used market that dry? A few lifetime units but not much in terms of fully working used units without lifetime.

Glad I'm getting a spare 1TB hard drive regardless.


----------



## MThorin

I am going to be doing a drive replacement on TCD652160 TiVo HD, i am going from a 160 gig drive which is currently in the tivo to a 160 gig drive. I have been alerted in a different thread that just because it says 160 gig doesn't mean it is exactly 160 gig. it could be 160 gig - 1 byte... the people in the other thread directed me here because there might be issues in replacing the same size drive with the same size drive... just for sake of argument.. if i do the drive replacement and it seems like it works but then for some reason when i try to put the new drive into the tivo and it fails.. can i put the old drive back in? (as long as I don't record or delete anything in the mean time)?

2nd question if the 2 drives are the exact same size (right down to the byte) is there anything i have to be aware of when doing to drive to drive copy?

3rd question what i would like to do is to just have the "old" tivo drive and the "new" tivo drive in the computer, and boot from a cd , what is the best program(s) to use to do this mirror copy?


----------



## unitron

MThorin said:


> I am going to be doing a drive replacement on TCD652160 TiVo HD, i am going from a 160 gig drive which is currently in the tivo to a 160 gig drive. I have been alerted in a different thread that just because it says 160 gig doesn't mean it is exactly 160 gig. it could be 160 gig - 1 byte... the people in the other thread directed me here because there might be issues in replacing the same size drive with the same size drive... just for sake of argument.. if i do the drive replacement and it seems like it works but then for some reason when i try to put the new drive into the tivo and it fails.. can i put the old drive back in? (as long as I don't record or delete anything in the mean time)?
> 
> 2nd question if the 2 drives are the exact same size (right down to the byte) is there anything i have to be aware of when doing to drive to drive copy?
> 
> 3rd question what i would like to do is to just have the "old" tivo drive and the "new" tivo drive in the computer, and boot from a cd , what is the best program(s) to use to do this mirror copy?


The "the same size isn't always the same size" problem came from some Maxtor drives in the single tuner Series 2s that were a little larger than other brands claiming the same number of GB. I don't think that happens anymore.

On the stickers on top of the drives should be a label and on the label should be an LBA number. If that number is the same on both drives, or larger on the target drive than the source drive, you're good to go.

If there's something wrong with the software, that is, the specific sequence of ones and zeros, on the source drive, that's not going to be magically cured in the copy just by copying, but if the problem was the result of physical problems with the source drive, perhaps the TiVo can repair it once it's running off of the target drive.

You should go to mfslive.org and download the zip file of the .iso file which is the image for the bootable MFS Live cd v1.4, unzip it, and burn a copy as an image.

It's handy to have around even if you don't have a TiVo.

There's utility on there called

dd_rescue

which is a fancier version of the old unix utility

dd

(which is also on that cd)

dd_rescue

should not be confused with a similar utility, written by a different guy, which does much the same thing, which is called

ddrescue

What you need to be aware of is the way unix/linux identifies drives and not to include the wrong one in the command options.

Let us say that you are going to boot the PC with the MFS Live cd v1.4 in your cd or dvd drive, and it's either a PATA/IDE bus type drive, which means it would be identified as

/dev/hd(insert a drive letter here)

or it's a SATA interface but not on the first or second SATA controller, then if you're smart enough to disconnect all hard drives (including the one with Windows on it), and then connect the source drive to the first SATA controller (which might be labeled SATA 0, or SATA 1, depending on where they start counting) and the target drive to the second SATA controller, you could use the following on the command line

dd_rescue -v /dev/sda /dev/sdb

The -v option is so you can see what it's doing while it's doing it. The v is for verbose.

If you're doing this because the source drive is suspect, you should read up on the various other options dd_rescue offers, like doing it in smaller chunks at a time, starting at the end of each drive and working backwards, and other stuff, and also putting the source drive in the freezer overnight first, wrapped in a thickness or 2 of paper towel.

Please note that we are not talking about DOS/Windows style drive letters here.

On an older, pre or early SATA computer, the "C:" drive would probably have been

/dev/hda

and nowadays it's probably

/dev/sda

Also, those refer to the entire drive, regardless of the number of partitions on it.

C: refers to a single partition on a specific drive, but that may not be the only partition on that drive.


----------



## MThorin

unitron i appreciate the response. the problem i am having with my tivo is that shows are randomly freezing and then unfreezing.. it almost looks like someone paused the tivo (only without the green bar at the bottom). Sometimes it freezes for a second or 2, sometimes longer, and sometimes it pauses / freezes for so long that the tivo reboots. lol it sucks. From my reading on the web I believe that the drive itself is crashing. If you had to make a guess.. do you think it YES 100% the drive is crashing or no it's the tivo software on the drive. or is it for example, a 70/30 split, 70% the drive and then 30% the software could be the problem... i'm curious where would you stand on that issue? i realize i didn't give a lot of info on the freezing, but sadly that is about all i have to go on.


----------



## unitron

MThorin said:


> unitron i appreciate the response. the problem i am having with my tivo is that shows are randomly freezing and then unfreezing.. it almost looks like someone paused the tivo (only without the green bar at the bottom). Sometimes it freezes for a second or 2, sometimes longer, and sometimes it pauses / freezes for so long that the tivo reboots. lol it sucks. From my reading on the web I believe that the drive itself is crashing. If you had to make a guess.. do you think it YES 100% the drive is crashing or no it's the tivo software on the drive. or is it for example, a 70/30 split, 70% the drive and then 30% the software could be the problem... i'm curious where would you stand on that issue? i realize i didn't give a lot of info on the freezing, but sadly that is about all i have to go on.


If it weren't for the rebooting, I'd suggest that the freezing problem might very well be occuring before the signal gets to your TiVo. I see it all the time on broadcast and cable.

Do you already own the second 160GB drive onto which you intend to copy the first?

If not, it may not make sense economically to buy it.

Have you absolutely eliminated any possibility of a problem with your power supply?


----------



## slowbiscuit

Definitely sounds like the drive is going bad, that's the same symptoms I had when my Hitachi 1TB 7k1000 was on its way out (including the reboots). The good news is that if you pull it and copy it to a new drive now (with jmfs or whatever) you'll likely get almost all of it copied over if it isn't too far gone. dd_rescue works pretty well to recover the max possible.

Get a bigger drive than the 160GB, I'd go 500GB minimum then expand and supersize it.


----------



## lpwcomp

slowbiscuit said:


> Definitely sounds like the drive is going bad, that's the same symptoms I had when my Hitachi 1TB 7k1000 was on its way out (including the reboots). The good news is that if you pull it and copy it to a new drive now (with jmfs or whatever) you'll likely get almost all of it copied over if it isn't too far gone. dd_rescue works pretty well to recover the max possible.
> 
> Get a bigger drive than the 160GB, I'd go 500GB minimum then expand and supersize it.


I'm the one who directed him over here. The "new" 160GB drive is one he already had. Yes, for a number of reasons he should go with an actual new drive but - _that costs money_.


----------



## unitron

lpwcomp said:


> I'm the one who directed him over here. The "new" 160GB drive is one he already had. Yes, for a number of reasons he should go with an actual new drive but - _that costs money_.


If he already has a 160 with the same or a larger LBA number, he should do the freezer trick and copy the original to it before it gets worse, but as long as he's got the lid off he should ckeck the power supply, or just go ahead and replace the caps on the +5V and +12V outputs on GP.


----------



## MThorin

i haven't popped the case on the tivo box . yet.  but will be doing that shortly.. as for why I am going to go back to a 160 gig drive.. i need to save the shows that are already recorded (and which i forgot to mention on this thread) i have a dvr expander (external drive) so in order to save the shows this is about the only real way. I was going to copy the shows to my computer via tivo desktop but that takes 1 hour 15 minutes to move a 1 hour show. and with half the tivo being filled.... yeah that'd take a while. :-( so i'm kind of stuck


----------



## lpwcomp

MThorin said:


> i haven't popped the case on the tivo box . yet.  but will be doing that shortly.. as for why I am going to go back to a 160 gig drive.. i need to save the shows that are already recorded (and which i forgot to mention on this thread) i have a dvr expander (external drive) so in order to save the shows this is about the only real way. I was going to copy the shows to my computer via tivo desktop but that takes 1 hour 15 minutes to move a 1 hour show. and with half the tivo being filled.... yeah that'd take a while. :-( so i'm kind of stuck


You didn't mention the DVR expander before. What have you done to verify that it is not the source of the problem?


----------



## MThorin

oops ... actually i am not sure how to test if that is the problem or if it is the drive in the tivo . i guess i could pull the external drive, but if i do that, then my understanding (and i could be wrong) is that i would loose what is recorded, because if I start up the tivo without the external drive, the tivo will just delete what is on the main drive. Or am i wrong and i just won't have access to the shows that were recorded before i disconnected the external drive until i reconnect the external?

but other the disconnecting the external drive and just running on the internal for a while.. is there another way to test?


----------



## lpwcomp

MThorin said:


> oops ... actually i am not sure how to test if that is the problem or if it is the drive in the tivo . i guess i could pull the external drive, but if i do that, then my understanding (and i could be wrong) is that i would loose what is recorded, because if I start up the tivo without the external drive, the tivo will just delete what is on the main drive. Or am i wrong and i just won't have access to the shows that were recorded before i disconnected the external drive until i reconnect the external?
> 
> but other the disconnecting the external drive and just running on the internal for a while.. is there another way to test?


Run kickstart 54.

Individual recordings are spread over both drives so losing either one loses everything.


----------



## unitron

If you "Xerox" the 160 to the other 160, you can put it in and run with the external connected and the external (and the TiVo) will think it's the original 160 and you can do KickStart 58 to try to get the TiVo to straighten things out.


----------



## lpwcomp

unitron said:


> If you "Xerox" the 160 to the other 160, you can put it in and run with the external connected and the external (and the TiVo) will think it's the original 160 and you can do KickStart 58 to try to get the TiVo to straighten things out.


The problem is at this point he doesn't know if it is the internal or the external that is causing the problem.


----------



## dbong1021

N


unitron said:


> The handy to have MFS Live cd v1.4 has
> 
> dd_rescue
> 
> on it which is quite similar to
> 
> ddrescue
> 
> (both are fancy versions of dd)
> 
> I recommend it with the -v option so that it reports what it's doing as it does it.


Just wanted to update everyone on my situation.

Ran dd_rescue on my original 1tb drive with the verbose option. After quite some time the process finished and revealed no errors. I took a backup of the drive while I as was at it and then started the copy process. That all finished up fine and things seem great now with the new wd10ears drive (ran wdidle on it). I'm not seeing any pixelation or freezes so far 3 days in.

After I put the tivo back together I took the time to test the original drive using tools off of wd's site. Both the quick and external tests revealed no issues. ??? Not sure what to think now as far as what was starting to go wrong with my original drive


----------



## unitron

dbong1021 said:


> N
> 
> Just wanted to update everyone on my situation.
> 
> Ran dd_rescue on my original 1tb drive with the verbose option. After quite some time the process finished and revealed no errors. I took a backup of the drive while I as was at it and then started the copy process. That all finished up fine and things seem great now with the new wd10ears drive (ran wdidle on it). I'm not seeing any pixelation or freezes so far 3 days in.
> 
> After I put the tivo back together I took the time to test the original drive using tools off of wd's site. Both the quick and external tests revealed no issues. ??? Not sure what to think now as far as what was starting to go wrong with my original drive


Let me be sure I understand, you have an original S3 that came with a 250GB, but at some point in the past you replaced it with a 1TB?

And now you've solved your problems by replacing that 1TB with a second one, but can't find anything wrong with the first one?

Send it to me, I'll run the several years test on it.


----------



## dbong1021

unitron said:


> Let me be sure I understand, you have an original S3 that came with a 250GB, but at some point in the past you replaced it with a 1TB?
> 
> And now you've solved your problems by replacing that 1TB with a second one, but can't find anything wrong with the first one?
> 
> Send it to me, I'll run the several years test on it.


Original S3 w/ a 250gb that I used winMFS to clone over to a WD10EVDS. That worked fine for a long while - 2 years? I can't remember how long exactly. The EVDS then started acting up and that's when I moved to the EARS this past weekend.

Yeah I'm really scratching my head as to why my Tivo started acting up now that I've done all these tests. Maybe its something with the Tivo internals? Knock on wood!


----------



## unitron

dbong1021 said:


> Original S3 w/ a 250gb that I used winMFS to clone over to a WD10EVDS. That worked fine for a long while - 2 years? I can't remember how long exactly. The EVDS then started acting up and that's when I moved to the EARS this past weekend.
> 
> Yeah I'm really scratching my head as to why my Tivo started acting up now that I've done all these tests. Maybe its something with the Tivo internals? Knock on wood!


Strange TiVo symptoms often are resolved after one finds and replaces faulty capacitors in the power supply.

So no deal on the free drive, huh?


----------



## dbong1021

unitron said:


> Strange TiVo symptoms often are resolved after one finds and replaces faulty capacitors in the power supply.
> 
> So no deal on the free drive, huh?


My media center computer could really use the extra 1tb.

How about my old 250gb drive? 

I really do appreciate your help either way though!


----------



## ThreeSoFar

dbong1021 said:


> Original S3 w/ a 250gb that I used winMFS to clone over to a WD10EVDS. That worked fine for a long while - 2 years? I can't remember how long exactly. The EVDS then started acting up and that's when I moved to the EARS this past weekend.
> 
> Yeah I'm really scratching my head as to why my Tivo started acting up now that I've done all these tests. Maybe its something with the Tivo internals? Knock on wood!


Could it be as simple as the cable was working loose?


----------



## L David Matheny

dbong1021 said:


> Original S3 w/ a 250gb that I used winMFS to clone over to a WD10EVDS. That worked fine for a long while - 2 years? I can't remember how long exactly. The EVDS then started acting up and that's when I moved to the EARS this past weekend.
> 
> Yeah I'm really scratching my head as to why my Tivo started acting up now that I've done all these tests. Maybe its something with the Tivo internals? Knock on wood!


It could conceivably be related to out-of-spec voltages or heat. Have you checked the TiVo's voltages under load? Could the unit have been running hot?


----------



## MThorin

ok, i have done the kickstart 54 and it has been running for most of the day so far.. this is what it shows at this point [media]http://webpages.charter.net/eagletalon/media/photo.jpg[/media] I'm assuming that the Fail 7 on the primary means that the internal drive is dying, and it is time to replace it, or am I wrong.


----------



## lpwcomp

MThorin said:


> ok, i have done the kickstart 54 and it has been running for most of the day so far.. this is what it shows at this point [media]http://webpages.charter.net/eagletalon/media/photo.jpg[/media] I'm assuming that the Fail 7 on the primary means that the internal drive is dying, and it is time to replace it, or am I wrong.


You are correct. While it could possibly be the power supply, the original 160GB drive in my TiVo HD went bad after @3 years. I replaced it with a 1TB last June and it has been running fine since then.


----------



## MThorin

this should be the last question: Once I mirror the old tivo drive to the new tivo drive, at that point it should just be a matter of putting the new tivo drive into the tivo, and powering it up. Or do I need to run any special commands or anything after powering up the tivo with the new tivo drive?


----------



## unitron

MThorin said:


> this should be the last question: Once I mirror the old tivo drive to the new tivo drive, at that point it should just be a matter of putting the new tivo drive into the tivo, and powering it up. Or do I need to run any special commands or anything after powering up the tivo with the new tivo drive?


If you did a "Xerox" of the old 160 to the other 160, it and the TiVo will think it's the old 160, so no need to do anything except hook it up and plug in the TiVo's power cord.

The only possible exception is if the replacement 160 is a Western Digital Caviar Green which has Intellipark enabled, in which case you'd need to run wdidle3 to disable it.

You can look up the model number on the sticker on the drive on WD's website to see if Intellipark is one of its features.


----------



## mattack

Does anybody know if this drive:

SAMSUNG EcoGreen F4 HD204UI
http://promotions.newegg.com/neemai...mmc=EMC-GD050912-_-index-_-Header-_-ClickHere

will work in a TivoHD?

Yes, I skimmed the FAQ, but its list of drives is old.. and I seem to remember the TivoHD is much finickier than the OLED S3 as far as which drives work..


----------



## ThreeSoFar

mattack said:


> Does anybody know if this drive:
> 
> SAMSUNG EcoGreen F4 HD204UI
> http://promotions.newegg.com/neemai...mmc=EMC-GD050912-_-index-_-Header-_-ClickHere
> 
> will work in a TivoHD?
> 
> Yes, I skimmed the FAQ, but its list of drives is old.. and I seem to remember the TivoHD is much finickier than the OLED S3 as far as which drives work..


That will work. Samsungs are good in fact. Used those for years back when WDs sucked.


----------



## unitron

ThreeSoFar said:


> That will work. Samsungs are good in fact. Used those for years back when WDs sucked.


How about as a single NT partition running under XP to store .tivo files on to free up some WDs known to work in the S3 HD?

Will the advanced format 4K sector thing come back to bite me?


----------



## ThAbtO

unitron said:


> Will the advanced format 4K sector thing come back to bite me?


*CHOMP*


----------



## unitron

ThAbtO said:


> *CHOMP*


Most hilarious, got any painful and illustrative anecdotes about which 4K sector drives cause problems in and with what to accompany it?


----------



## unitron

mattack said:


> Does anybody know if this drive:
> 
> SAMSUNG EcoGreen F4 HD204UI
> http://promotions.newegg.com/neemai...mmc=EMC-GD050912-_-index-_-Header-_-ClickHere
> 
> will work in a TivoHD?
> 
> Yes, I skimmed the FAQ, but its list of drives is old.. and I seem to remember the TivoHD is much finickier than the OLED S3 as far as which drives work..


If you read the feedback at newegg, that's not really the drive they say it is, it's a Seagate with the Samsung name on it, and only a 1 year warranty.

Too bad, Samsung seemed to be making good drives before Seagate bought them out.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

unitron said:


> If you read the feedback at newegg, that's not really the drive they say it is, it's a Seagate with the Samsung name on it, and only a 1 year warranty.
> 
> Too bad, Samsung seemed to be making good drives before Seagate bought them out.


Oh...yeah. Never mind then.


----------



## kbelou

Hey guys/gals,
I'm looking to replace my current (and original) internal drive in my TiVo HD. I had one of the old 500GB My DVR Expander drives for a few years but it just died. It seems much more cost effective to replace the internal drive than buy another certified external drive.

My questions: Do the directions in the original post on this thread still apply (I'm looking at the winMFS method on a Windows 7 machine)? Does anyone have any internal hard drive recommendations? I noticed the suggested HDD list has taken a few hits. 

Any other help/comments would certainly be appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## steve614

kbelou said:


> Hey guys/gals,
> I'm looking to replace my current (and original) internal drive in my TiVo HD. I had one of the old 500GB My DVR Expander drives for a few years but it just died. It seems much more cost effective to replace the internal drive than buy another certified external drive.
> 
> My questions: Do the directions in the original post on this thread still apply (I'm looking at the winMFS method on a Windows 7 machine)? Does anyone have any internal hard drive recommendations? I noticed the suggested HDD list has taken a few hits.
> 
> Any other help/comments would certainly be appreciated. Thanks!


Yes, I believe winMFS will work with drives up to 1TB. You will want to run WinMFS "as administrator" on a Windows 7 computer.

If you can afford to get a 1.5TB or a 2TB hard drive, use the JMFS software.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179


----------



## Teeps

kbelou said:


> My questions:
> Does anyone have any internal hard drive recommendations?
> Any other help/comments would certainly be appreciated.
> Thanks!


I'm very happy with the 2TB plug&play drive purchased from Dvr_Dude (ebay.)
A bit pricey, some here will say, but hassle free...

He is very prompt & professional with communications too.


----------



## lpwcomp

kbelou said:


> Hey guys/gals,
> I'm looking to replace my current (and original) internal drive in my TiVo HD. I had one of the old 500GB My DVR Expander drives for a few years but it just died. It seems much more cost effective to replace the internal drive than buy another certified external drive.
> 
> My questions: Do the directions in the original post on this thread still apply (I'm looking at the winMFS method on a Windows 7 machine)? Does anyone have any internal hard drive recommendations? I noticed the suggested HDD list has taken a few hits.
> 
> Any other help/comments would certainly be appreciated. Thanks!


Microcenter has a 2TB WD Caviar Green drive for $109. As noted above, you would have to use JMFS. For maximum space utilization, you would also have to use WinMFS to "supersize" it. You may also need to run "wdidle3" to disable the intellipark feature.

Have you divorced the external?


----------



## lpwcomp

Teeps said:


> I'm very happy with the 2TB plug&play drive purchased from Dvr_Dude (ebay.)
> A bit pricey, some here will say, but hassle free...


I guess you don't consider it a hassle to redo guided setup and all of your settings, including CableCARD pairing, and restoring all of your SP's.


----------



## kbelou

lpwcomp said:


> Microcenter has a 2TB WD Caviar Green drive for $109. As noted above, you would have to use JMFS. For maximum space utilization, you would also have to use WinMFS to "supersize" it. You may also need to run "wdidle3" to disable the intellipark feature.
> 
> Have you divorced the external?


Yeah, I removed it from the system the other night, it took about 30 minutes to unpair and I lost all my recordings of course. Luckily I didn't have to re-set up the CableCard connections or the season passes.

I'm not entirely familiar with the steps required in the JMFS article. The WinMFS seemed simple enough though. I found a 1TB Seagate on newegg for $109 also, I wonder if the trouble is worth the extra space..

Teeps, I'm kinda in the same boat as lpwcomp, I would think it would be a bit of an annoyance to get the cable company out to re-pair the CableCard and set up all my settings again. Did you find that frustrating/slow?

Thanks again to everyone for your comments, I appreciate the discussion.


----------



## lpwcomp

kbelou said:


> I'm not entirely familiar with the steps required in the JMFS article. The WinMFS seemed simple enough though.


With which parts of the JMFS process are you unfamiliar?



kbelou said:


> I found a 1TB Seagate on newegg for $109 also, I wonder if the trouble is worth the extra space..


It would be to me. Plus it is a WD drive vs Seagate.

Just to be clear though. We are talking about a TiVo HD, model TCD652160, correct?



kbelou said:


> Teeps, I'm kinda in the same boat as lpwcomp, I would think it would be a bit of an annoyance to get the cable company out to re-pair the CableCard and set up all my settings again. Did you find that frustrating/slow?


I was just pointing out that there are "hassles" associated with using a "Plug & Play" drive. The one time I replaced the drive in a THD was DIY using WinMFS (1TB drive to replace the dying stock 160GB). I would only consider using a pre-configured drive as a last resort.


----------



## steve614

1TB vs 2TB for the same price?  

Go with 2 TB (you'll be glad you did later). If you can follow the instructions to use WinMFS, then you can follow the instructions to use JMFS.
I've used it myself.

Step 1: Download JMFS and burn boot CD.
Step 2: Shut down computer, open the case and connect your source and target drives. To make things easy, disconnect any other hard drive on the system (Software shows all hard drives connected and you have to pick target and source drive).
Step 3: Boot computer with the JMFS CD and follow the prompts.
Step 4: When done, disconnect source drive and put computer back together.
Step 5: Supersize target drive with WinMFS (optional).

If you need to run the wdidle utility on a WD drive, it can be done at any time before or after using JMFS.

Seriously, the person that doesn't understand the instructions laid out in the 1st post of the JMFS thread, then they are better off buying a pre-loaded plug and play hard drive (Trust me, I'm no geek. But I do know how to follow instructions).


----------



## kbelou

lpwcomp said:


> With which parts of the JMFS process are you unfamiliar?
> 
> It would be to me. Plus it is a WD drive vs Seagate.
> 
> Just to be clear though. We are talking about a TiVo HD, model TCD652160, correct?
> 
> I was just pointing out that there are "hassles" associated with using a "Plug & Play" drive. The one time I replaced the drive in a THD was DIY using WinMFS (1TB drive to replace the dying stock 160GB). I would only consider using a pre-configured drive as a last resort.


I've never burned a bootable CD or played around in linux, but from the positive things I've read it certainly sounds worth doing it. I'm not completely inept, I have built my own PC and take care of simpler things, just may have to dive a bit out of my usual area for this.

Yes, it's Tivo HD TCD652160.

I agree with you about the extra hurdles involved with a pre-configured drive, I think that will be a last resort for me as well, I like to avoid getting the cable company involved as much as I can.

Do you have a link to the 2TB drive you were referring to on microcenter? Are there certain restrictions with other internal drives that I should look for when purchasing one? (I guess I'm asking why the FAQ had a list of drives that worked?)


----------



## kbelou

steve614 said:


> 1TB vs 2TB for the same price?
> 
> Go with 2 TB (you'll be glad you did later). If you can follow the instructions to use WinMFS, then you can follow the instructions to use JMFS.
> I've used it myself.
> 
> Step 1: Download JMFS and burn boot CD.
> Step 2: Shut down computer, open the case and connect your source and target drives. To make things easy, disconnect any other hard drive on the system (Software shows all hard drives connected and you have to pick target and source drive).
> Step 3: Boot computer with the JMFS CD and follow the prompts.
> Step 4: When done, disconnect source drive and put computer back together.
> Step 5: Supersize target drive with WinMFS (optional).
> 
> If you need to run the wdidle utility on a WD drive, it can be done at any time before or after using JMFS.
> 
> Seriously, the person that doesn't understand the instructions laid out in the 1st post of the JMFS thread, then they are better off buying a pre-loaded plug and play hard drive (Trust me, I'm no geek. But I do know how to follow instructions).


Sorry, steve, I never meant to give the impression I couldn't follow instructions. I just meant I had never done something quite like booting to a disk I've burned to run a linux utility. Not that I couldn't learn I'm sure. It sounds like in your opinion it is certainly worth learning though.

I'll certainly take more time to learn about and get more comfortable with it. Thanks for your input!


----------



## lpwcomp

kbelou said:


> Sorry, steve, I never meant to give the impression I couldn't follow instructions. I just meant I had never done something quite like booting to a disk I've burned to run a linux utility. Not that I couldn't learn I'm sure. It sounds like in your opinion it is certainly worth learning though.
> 
> I'll certainly take more time to learn about and get more comfortable with it. Thanks for your input!


If you've ever burned an iso file to a dvd, that's all you need to do. Nothing special. In particular, do _*not*_ select any burner s/w option to make it bootable.


----------



## steve614

kbelou said:


> Sorry, steve, I never meant to give the impression I couldn't follow instructions. I just meant I had never done something quite like booting to a disk I've burned to run a linux utility. Not that I couldn't learn I'm sure. It sounds like in your opinion it is certainly worth learning though.
> 
> I'll certainly take more time to learn about and get more comfortable with it. Thanks for your input!


And let me just say, I didn't mean to imply that *you* couldn't follow instructions. I realize it kind of seems like it looking back over the posts, but I just wanted to make a post for anyone who might happen across this thread (the "you" in my post was directed at any person that reads the thread).

Basically, an "if _*I*_ can do it" post.
When I first thought of upgrading my TivoHD (before JMFS came along), I was overwhelmed and intimidated with all the info and warnings (etc.) with using WinMFS, that I decided to purchase a 1 TB plug and play drive from weaknees. 
When JMFS came along allowing the ability to use a 2TB hard drive in a TivoHD, I was more comfortable with computers in general and was more willing to endure any failures.
I did my homework and my upgrade pretty much went as laid out in my earlier post.

Whatever method you decide to use, happy upgrading! That's all that matters.


----------



## unitron

kbelou said:


> Sorry, steve, I never meant to give the impression I couldn't follow instructions. I just meant I had never done something quite like booting to a disk I've burned to run a linux utility. Not that I couldn't learn I'm sure. It sounds like in your opinion it is certainly worth learning though.
> 
> I'll certainly take more time to learn about and get more comfortable with it. Thanks for your input!


You don't need a DVD, just a CD-R, and find an option in your burning software to burn it as an image.


----------



## Teeps

lpwcomp said:


> I guess you don't consider it a hassle to redo guided setup and all of your settings, including CableCARD pairing, and restoring all of your SP's.


Not a hassle at all.
I think of it like cleaning out the garage...
Ever done that?



kbelou said:


> Teeps, I'm kinda in the same boat as lpwcomp, I would think it would be a bit of an annoyance to get the cable company out to re-pair the CableCard and set up all my settings again. Did you find that frustrating/slow?
> 
> Thanks again to everyone for your comments, I appreciate the discussion.


Time Warner (Torrance) does not require a truck roll to pair cable cards.
In fact the T/W agent I spoke to even asked if I had just upgraded my TiVo!
Took less than 30 minutes including call waiting.

There is a way to deal with season passes through the online sp manager; but as I said above... it was time to clean the garage.



steve614 said:


> Step 1: Download JMFS and burn boot CD.
> Step 2: Shut down computer, open the case and connect your source and target drives. To make things easy, disconnect any other hard drive on the system (Software shows all hard drives connected and you have to pick target and source drive).
> Step 3: Boot computer with the JMFS CD and follow the prompts.
> Step 4: When done, disconnect source drive and put computer back together.
> Step 5: Supersize target drive with WinMFS (optional).
> 
> If you need to run the wdidle utility on a WD drive, it can be done at any time before or after using JMFS.
> 
> Seriously, the person that doesn't understand the instructions laid out in the 1st post of the JMFS thread, then they are better off buying a pre-loaded plug and play hard drive (Trust me, I'm no geek. But I do know how to follow instructions).


Thanks to Steve614 for illustrating what a non-hassle a DIY drive install is...
I will take the very minor inconvenience of dealing with sp and cable card pair over the above all day long...


----------



## lpwcomp

Teeps said:


> Not a hassle at all.
> I think of it like cleaning out the garage...
> Ever done that?


We're both buying a new garage. You're just throwing the content out and replacing it with all new stuff. You're also implying that it is less effort to re-create the SPs you want than to remove the ones you no longer need. For most people, that is a ridiculous claim.



Teeps said:


> Time Warner (Torrance) does not require a truck roll to pair cable cards.
> In fact the T/W agent I spoke to even asked if I had just upgraded my TiVo!
> Took less than 30 minutes including call waiting.


Nobody requires a truck roll any more per FCC regulations. How nice for you that it was easy. Most do not have the same experience.



Teeps said:


> There is a way to deal with season passes through the online sp manager; but as I said above... it was time to clean the garage.


Even if I were willing to change my security settings to enable the online sp manager, it has .. deficiencies. You must also be the only one using the TiVo.



Teeps said:


> Thanks to Steve614 for illustrating what a non-hassle a DIY drive install is...


I never claimed there wasn't some effort involved in DIY. You were the one who made that claim about a ore-configured drive.



Teeps said:


> I will take the very minor inconvenience of dealing with sp and cable card pair over the above all day long...


Again, how nice for you. You have the luxury of spending twice the money to save yourself a bit of effort. Not all of us can afford to be that lazy.


----------



## libshea

I bought an "unapproved" 1TB external hard drive (not knowing Tivo only embraces one model). It's a Seagate GoFlex. I foolishly thought it was a plug and play situation, but I plugged, and restarted, but Tivo didn't recognize it... CAN that external drive BE made to work, at all? If so, how? And if so, does it really void the warranty on the Tivo? That sounds ridiculous AND exceptionally harsh... Any info appreciated. THANKS!!


----------



## steve614

Nope, sorry. 
The only way to utilize that hard drive is to attach it to your computer and use it to save shows that are allowed to be transferred to computer.


----------



## unitron

libshea said:


> I bought an "unapproved" 1TB external hard drive (not knowing Tivo only embraces one model). It's a Seagate GoFlex. I foolishly thought it was a plug and play situation, but I plugged, and restarted, but Tivo didn't recognize it... CAN that external drive BE made to work, at all? If so, how? And if so, does it really void the warranty on the Tivo? That sounds ridiculous AND exceptionally harsh... Any info appreciated. THANKS!!


What is the model number of your TiVo?

It's on the sticker on the back, and starts with TCD.

If it's the original Series 3, TCD648250, maybe you can use something other than the approved Western Digital models.

Otherwise, when the TiVo asks, the actual drive inside the enclosure will not respond with one of the very few raw drive model numbers on the list the TiVo verifies against.

I don't know about violating the warranty, but trying to do forced mating might screw up the software on the internal drive, which won't be any fun to fix.

Probably better to hook that Seagate up to a computer and copy over shows from the TiVo and investigate replacing the TiVo's internal drive with a larger one.


----------



## lpwcomp

unitron said:


> What is the model number of your TiVo?


You must've missed the subject line of his post. But it does confuse me. Doesn't the Elite come with a 2TB internal and doesn't the external have to be at least as big as the internal? Actually, does the Elite support a plug and play external at all? Does any stock TiVo support more than 2TB total storage?


----------



## unitron

lpwcomp said:


> You must've missed the subject line of his post.


Yeah, I did, that's what I get for trying to deal with several threads here simultaneously while doing other things as well.



lpwcomp said:


> But it does confuse me. Doesn't the Elite come with a 2TB internal and doesn't the external have to be at least as big as the internal? Actually, does the Elite support a plug and play external at all? Does any stock TiVo support more than 2TB total storage?


The more I think about what I think I know or can remember about externals with TiVos the more I realize how much I don't know and where's richsadams when you need him?


----------



## slowbiscuit

steve614 said:


> Nope, sorry.
> The only way to utilize that hard drive is to attach it to your computer and use it to save shows that are allowed to be transferred to computer.


Or better yet, take it out of the case and use it to upgrade the internal drive, assuming he's running with the original 160GB or 250GB.


----------



## unitron

slowbiscuit said:


> Or better yet, take it out of the case and use it to upgrade the internal drive, assuming he's running with the original 160GB or 250GB.


I feel better knowing I'm not the only one who missed the subject line

*Help! Re Expanding new Premiere Elite...*

Admittedly, there rarely is one after the original post, and this is the S3 section, so it's kind of out of place, although this particular thread has turned into the general purpose hard drive thread.


----------



## lpwcomp

unitron said:


> I feel better knowing I'm not the only one who missed the subject line
> 
> *Help! Re Expanding new Premiere Elite...*
> 
> Admittedly, there rarely is one after the original post, and this is the S3 section, so it's kind of out of place, although this particular thread has turned into the general purpose hard drive thread.


Also, thinking about it some more, it doesn't really make sense. How do you expand an Elite in the first place?

I'm starting to sense the presence of a very weird troll who comes out from under the bridge every 3 years to make one post.


----------



## kbelou

Thanks so much to everyone for the help, I just finished installing my brand new 2TB drive in my TiVo! Increase from 21 HD recording hours to 318! Special thanks to lpwcomp and steve614 for helping me out :up:


----------



## unitron

kbelou said:


> Thanks so much to everyone for the help, I just finished installing my brand new 2TB drive in my TiVo! Increase from 21 HD recording hours to 318! Special thanks to lpwcomp and steve614 for helping me out :up:


What model TiVo?

What brand, model number on drive itself, model number on retail package if any, manufacturing date, and country of manufacture or the new drive?

Anything on the drive label or packaging about "advanced format" and did you do anything special about that?

Where did you buy the drive and for how much?


----------



## ThAbtO

kbelou said:


> Thanks so much to everyone for the help, I just finished installing my brand new 2TB drive in my TiVo! Increase from *21* HD recording hours to 318! Special thanks to lpwcomp and steve614 for helping me out :up:





unitron said:


> What model TiVo?


I suspect its a THD (652) from the clue above.


----------



## kbelou

unitron said:


> What model TiVo?
> 
> What brand, model number on drive itself, model number on retail package if any, manufacturing date, and country of manufacture or the new drive?
> 
> Anything on the drive label or packaging about "advanced format" and did you do anything special about that?
> 
> Where did you buy the drive and for how much?


Phew, well the TiVo is a TCD652160.

As far as the new drive is concerned I don't know the answers to all your questions, I'll have to open up the TiVo box tonight to see. But what I do know:
The drive is Western Digital, 2TB, WD20EURS. I purchased it from newegg for $129 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136783&Tpk=wd20eurs). I'll check the other stuff tonight.


----------



## unitron

kbelou said:


> Phew, well the TiVo is a TCD652160.
> 
> As far as the new drive is concerned I don't know the answers to all your questions, I'll have to open up the TiVo box tonight to see. But what I do know:
> The drive is Western Digital, 2TB, WD20EURS. I purchased it from newegg for $129 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136783&Tpk=wd20eurs). I'll check the other stuff tonight.


Okay, bare drive, no retail box number to worry about, if you don't need to open the TiVo for some other reason, don't worry about date and country, it's "advanced format", did you do anything special on account of that?


----------



## lex3001

After I purchased our TiVo HD, I upgraded the drive to a 1.5TB drive -- this was about 1.5 years ago. Recently we have had some weird problems -- random reboots, hangs, etc. -- intermittent, but more and more frequent. Time for a new drive.

This time I ordered the WD20EARX since the price was ok on Amazon and even though the TiVo won't use the extra space, if I ever use the drive for something else it was only $10 more... http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Caviar-Desktop-WD20EARX/dp/B004VFJ9MK ($119).

Fortunately I know right where I keep those funny star shaped screwdrivers I got from the auto supply store years ago.

Step 1: wdidle3
Nothing is ever as easy as I hope it will be. I knew I was supposed to do something to this drive, but nothing obvious showed up under the drive's downloads on the WD site. So I looked here and realized it was WDIDLE3 I needed to run. I could not actually verify anywhere that the program works for the WD EARX series but I figured I would give it a go anyway. I popped the drive into a USB external case and tried to run WDIDLE3 from my Windows 7 64-bit laptop (Dell E6410). I'm you are all ROFL right now. Windows said it could not run this program... so I looked up online how to make a bootable USB stick with MSDOS and copied the program onto there. I followed these instructions: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/46707-ms-dos-bootable-flash-drive-create.html ... the first time I copied all the remaining MSDOS files onto the stick afterwards. Not a good idea -- wouldn't boot on one of my laptops -- so the second time I left it empty and added only the WDIDLE3 files. Of course, WDIDLE3 could not find any WD drives. More Internet research revealed this would probably not work on an external USB case. Luckily I happened to have an external case with eSata. And even more luck -- I also had a laptop with eSata. To top things off I was even able to find an eSata cable lying around the house somewhere. Phew. Well, that did not work either -- still not found. Argh. I decided to remove the internal hard drive and DVD drive from the laptop just to be safe and also to see if that would help. Nope. Next I checked the BIOS to make sure the eSata was even turned on. Yep. Then I noticed it has 4 modes -- off, ATA, AHCI, and RAID. It was on RAID. So I tried ATA. Nope. Argh, now was getting that sinking feeling, like I'm going to have to find a desktop to use somewhere... one last option to try - AHCI (I think). That one worked! Woo hoo. Next step.

Step 2. Copy the old drive to the new one...
This was a less daunting task because I have used CloneZilla and even dd in the past. Going through my USB sticks, I had one called the Ultimate Boot CD. I found Clonezilla on this guy, but nothing wanted to boot from this stick on the Dell D630 I allocated to the task of being busy for 24 hours. Back to making sticks again... I went straight to Clonezilla this time and made a bootable usb using TuxBoot from Windows 7 (see http://clonezilla.org/liveusb.php). This booted up but CloneZilla could not see both my drives. I unplugged them and plugged them back in etc and finally it worked. No matter what options I used in CloneZilla though, it would not start the copy because it could not determine what kind of partitions the new drive had. I wanted the nice safe feeling of the GUI telling me the progress so I persisted. But eventually I gave up and used dd instead. I used a trick I found online -- something like this one: http://www.commandlinefu.com/commands/view/1868/watch-the-progress-of-dd -- and I experimented with the -bs parameter a bit and settled on 32k. When I realized the laptop was getting hot I remember that in previous attemps it would sometime shut off and I put a fan right next to it to keep everything extra cool. Some 12-20 hours later it was done (I'm not really sure when it finished, and the results were no longer there to see). It must be nice to have modern equipment with SATA 3, but I just had external USB drives and an old laptop to use for this.

Step 3: The moment of truth
I popped the new drive into the TiVo, screwed everything back in place, hooked it up again, plugged it into the power as the last step and then turned on the TV. Would it be a black screen of death? Would it hang? Or would the technology gods favor me today?

The usual TiVo boot screen came up. Phew! I waited a bit and then the second Just a little longer boot screen came up. So far so good. Then an odd grey screen I did not recognize came on. Uh oh. Then I remembered I had put the TiVo in standby before I started all this -- no problem, hit a key on the remote. Good to go! Checked that I could watch TV, Netflix, etc. It worked. And its quieter than the old WD15EARS drive I had in there.

I am having trouble getting my TiVo to play Netflix in HD despite my 8Mbps (6.47 Mbps steady on speedtest) DSL, but that is unrelated...

Anyway just thought I would share this in case anyone found it useful one day...


----------



## dwit

lex3001 said:


> After I purchased our TiVo HD, I upgraded the drive to a 1.5TB drive -- this was about 1.5 years ago. Recently we have had some weird problems -- random reboots, hangs, etc. -- intermittent, but more and more frequent. Time for a new drive.
> 
> This time I ordered the WD20EARX since the price was ok on Amazon and even though the TiVo won't use the extra space...


You should have used the newer JMFS program/method* for TivoHD* discussed in the Upgrade Center forum to utilize the full 2 TB capacity.


----------



## lpwcomp

dwit said:


> You should have used the newer JMFS program/method* for TivoHD* discussed in the Upgrade Center forum to utilize the full 2 TB capacity.


It's a bit more problematic when going from an already expanded drive.

Assuming he used WinMFS for the original expansion, he was not even utilizing the full 1.5TB.


----------



## ThAbtO

http://www.circuitcity.com/applicat...urce=EML&utm_medium=main&utm_campaign=CCEM952

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...urce=EML&utm_medium=main&utm_campaign=WEM3119

WD10EARX $79.99 after $20 rebate. Ends 5/25/2012.


----------



## greggt007

i recently bought a s3, thought the power supply was bad. bought another s3, turned out to be the hdd. so i'm selling the other s3 once i fix it. i have an old 500gb expander that i used on my hd that 'went bad', but works fine when i hook it up to my laptops to make backups, though i only plug it in occasionally. 

anyone ever take their 'bad' expanders drive out of the external case and put it inside their tivo? from what i read it was the design of the external housing which made it overheat, the drive itself should be ok?


----------



## unitron

greggt007 said:


> i recently bought a s3, thought the power supply was bad. bought another s3, turned out to be the hdd. so i'm selling the other s3 once i fix it. i have an old 500gb expander that i used on my hd that 'went bad', but works fine when i hook it up to my laptops to make backups, though i only plug it in occasionally.
> 
> anyone ever take their 'bad' expanders drive out of the external case and put it inside their tivo? from what i read it was the design of the external housing which made it overheat, the drive itself should be ok?


Before using any drive in a TiVo, get that particular brand manufacturer's diagnostic software and run the long test.

I think a lot of the problems with externals had to do with eSATA connnector problems.

If your expander is the Wesern Digital model made for the TiVo, the drive inside should work fine as a TiVo internal, but you should check to see if it needs Intellipark disabled with the wdidle3 utility.


----------



## YZFdave

Is it possible to simply make a backup copy of your Tivo drive without making a mirror of the drive? A friend is not interested in upgrading to a bigger drive, and simply wants to "Grab the couple files needed in case the drive crashes". Obviously he would lose the shows, but at least wouldn't have to pay $40 for the software later. Is that possible? Or does he have to create an exact copy of the drive with a blank HDD? 

thanks!


----------



## lpwcomp

YZFdave said:


> Is it possible to simply make a backup copy of your Tivo drive without making a mirror of the drive? A friend is not interested in upgrading to a bigger drive, and simply wants to "Grab the couple files needed in case the drive crashes". Obviously he would lose the shows, but at least wouldn't have to pay $40 for the software later. Is that possible? Or does he have to create an exact copy of the drive with a blank HDD?
> 
> thanks!


I believe it is possible to create a "truncated backup", unless it is a Premiere.


----------



## unitron

YZFdave said:


> Is it possible to simply make a backup copy of your Tivo drive without making a mirror of the drive? A friend is not interested in upgrading to a bigger drive, and simply wants to "Grab the couple files needed in case the drive crashes". Obviously he would lose the shows, but at least wouldn't have to pay $40 for the software later. Is that possible? Or does he have to create an exact copy of the drive with a blank HDD?
> 
> thanks!


Get your friend to look on the sticker on the back and find the model number.

Should be TCD followed by 6 numbers

Tell us that model number and we can provide much more explicit advice.


----------



## greggt007

unitron said:


> Before using any drive in a TiVo, get that particular brand manufacturer's diagnostic software and run the long test.
> 
> I think a lot of the problems with externals had to do with eSATA connnector problems.
> 
> If your expander is the Wesern Digital model made for the TiVo, the drive inside should work fine as a TiVo internal, but you should check to see if it needs Intellipark disabled with the wdidle3 utility.


thanks, i dont think i can do the wdidle3 thing as all i have is a laptop with the drive hooked up via usb to sata bridge.
but it is a wd av drive used for tivo so i dont think it would have the green feature.

though this drive without the case seems to get piping hot, seems hotter than a normal hdd even though it has 2/3 the power consumption of the stock s3 drive.

i have a spare 3.5" hard drive dual fan thing that goes on the side of the drive that hooks up to the bracket. is it possible or recommended to hook one of these up to the tivo drive with the bracket on? it could use the secondary power connector on the hdd.


----------



## YZFdave

The tivo for the backup is the TivoHD. Sorry I don't have the exact model number, but it's a standard HD that came with it. 21hr


----------



## ThAbtO

YZFdave said:


> The tivo for the backup is the TivoHD. Sorry I don't have the exact model number, but it's a standard HD that came with it. 21hr


The Model number for all the Series 3 are:

Series 3 OLED = TCD648250
Tivo HD = TCD652160 ********* <-- This would be your model, it sounds like.
Tivo HD XL = TCD658000


----------



## lpwcomp

YZFdave said:


> The tivo for the backup is the TivoHD. Sorry I don't have the exact model number, but it's a standard HD that came with it. 21hr


The exact model shouldn't really matter. You can use WinMFS to create a truncated backup.


----------



## unitron

lpwcomp said:


> The exact model shouldn't really matter. You can use WinMFS to create a truncated backup.


Assuming the poster's friend's DVR is a DVR and is a TiVo and is an S3 or older.


----------



## unitron

greggt007 said:


> thanks, i dont think i can do the wdidle3 thing as all i have is a laptop with the drive hooked up via usb to sata bridge.
> but it is a wd av drive used for tivo so i dont think it would have the green feature.
> 
> though this drive without the case seems to get piping hot, seems hotter than a normal hdd even though it has 2/3 the power consumption of the stock s3 drive.
> 
> i have a spare 3.5" hard drive dual fan thing that goes on the side of the drive that hooks up to the bracket. is it possible or recommended to hook one of these up to the tivo drive with the bracket on? it could use the secondary power connector on the hdd.


I think the whole Intellipark borks a TiVo problem came to light when WD drives with it were placed in new TiVos at the factory as the internal drive.

Seems WD forget to run that little change by TiVo to see if it would cause a problem.

An external might be ready to respond but not yet back asleep by the time the TiVo gets around to talking to it, so I wouldn't make assumptions.


----------



## lpwcomp

unitron said:


> Assuming the poster's friend's DVR is a DVR and is a TiVo and is an S3 or older.


Actually, you can't create a truncated backup for an S4 either but in the post I quoted, he said it was a TiVo HD.


----------



## unitron

lpwcomp said:


> Actually, you can't create a truncated backup for an S4 either but in the post I quoted, he said it was a TiVo HD.


I really should have been doing this after becoming fully awake.


----------



## Teeps

YZFdave said:


> <SNIP>
> A friend simply wants to "Grab the couple files needed in case the drive crashes". <SNIP>


What files is this "friend" trying to extract?

If saved programs he can use kmttg to move non copy protected programs to a pc. It's slow but works.


----------



## lpwcomp

Teeps said:


> What files is this "friend" trying to extract?
> 
> If saved programs he can use kmttg to move non copy protected programs to a pc. It's slow but works.


You really shouldn't get involved in the middle of a discussion w/o reading the entire thing. kmttg or any process for moving _*recordings*_ to a computer is not relevant to this one. It's not even relevant to this _*thread*_.


----------



## Teeps

lpwcomp said:


> You really shouldn't get involved in the middle of a discussion w/o reading the entire thing. kmttg or any process for moving _*recordings*_ to a computer is not relevant to this one. It's not even relevant to this _*thread*_.


lpwcomp sir:
I'm sorry to have ventured into this thread uninvited and offended you.
If what I asked and suggested is of no use to this discussion. Then please remove my post above.

Again, sorry to have offended your learned position in this thread.
You have a nice day.

Cheers...


----------



## lpwcomp

YZFdave said:


> Thanks for the condescending and rude reply. You do have a point though about the relevant post and if this is the right thread. I actually thought it does apply, and according to someone about 5 posts above, using WinMFS will most likely back it up. So it seems it is relevant or at least similar. And reading through the entire thread, all 290 pages of it seems a little too time consuming.


Since my response wasn't to you, your reaction was totally uncalled for. The post I quoted and the one to which I was actually responding was talking about kmttg, which _*isn't*_ relevant to your needs. Since you seem to be easily confused, I thought I was doing you a favor. BTW, you are the one who who has been rude and antagonistic. I will now assume you are the troll you appear to be and advise everyone - DNFTEC.


----------



## Stuxnet

kbelou said:


> I just meant I had never done something quite like booting to a disk I've burned to run a linux utility. Not that I couldn't learn I'm sure.


Maybe you'll find these videos helpful... they clarified the jmfs procedure for me. You don't need to know "Linux" at all.

http://goo.gl/1Gep3
http://goo.gl/6AbbF


----------



## unitron

The phrase 

"Grab the couple files needed in case the drive crashes".

sounds like someone who may know PCs, but that's not the phrasing I'd expect from someone familiar with TiVo drives.

From them I'd expect something like "make a backup image", or "do a truncated backup".

Hence my uncertainty about the friend.


----------



## YZFdave

lpwcomp said:


> Since my response wasn't to you, your reaction was totally uncalled for. The post I quoted and the one to which I was actually responding was talking about kmttg, which _*isn't*_ relevant to your needs. Since you seem to be easily confused, I thought I was doing you a favor. BTW, you are the one who who has been rude and antagonistic. I will now assume you are the troll you appear to be and advise everyone - DNFTEC.


My apologies. I misread your reply and thought you quoted me. I thought I would post a question as a favor to a friend since it seemed like a simple question.

Since I am about to upgrade my own TivoHD, I do have to say with this thread being several years old and process changed a few times, it can be confusing. I'm pretty familiar with computers, how they work, can take them apart, etc., and definitely well above average, however, I'm no programer. Unless you walk through the directions and actually do it a time or two, it is very confusing looking from the outside in. I like to do my research and get it right the first time to save the frustration. I don't have hours and hours of time to figure this out with my Tivo in pieces.

This forum has been *very* helpful, but I have to say it would be nice to compile some updated posts and start a new sticky with new current information. Just my 2cents. Thanks again.


----------



## YZFdave

Stuxnet said:


> Maybe you'll find these videos helpful... they clarified the jmfs procedure for me. You don't need to know "Linux" at all.
> 
> http://goo.gl/1Gep3
> http://goo.gl/6AbbF


Awesome, thanks!


----------



## unitron

YZFdave said:


> ...
> 
> Since I am about to upgrade my own TivoHD...


Whadda ya wanna know?

We're talking about the TCD652160, right?


----------



## lpwcomp

YZFdave said:


> My apologies. I misread your reply and thought you quoted me. I thought I would post a question as a favor to a friend since it seemed like a simple question.


Sorry if I overreacted. I got some bad news on the health front Thursday.



YZFdave said:


> Since I am about to upgrade my own TivoHD, I do have to say with this thread being several years old and process changed a few times, it can be confusing. I'm pretty familiar with computers, how they work, can take them apart, etc., and definitely well above average, however, I'm no programer. Unless you walk through the directions and actually do it a time or two, it is very confusing looking from the outside in. I like to do my research and get it right the first time to save the frustration. I don't have hours and hours of time to figure this out with my Tivo in pieces.


Not counting the screws, it's only 4 pieces - cover, hard drive mount, hard drive, and the rest (the latter will not be changed in season 2 to "the Professor and Mary Ann"), but I understand. It's always best to know exactly what you are going to do before you begin a task of this sort. One of the things that is not in the sticky is the potential problem posed by attaching a TiVo drive to a Gigabyte Motherboard. Note: Gigabyte is a brand and does not refer to size or speed.



YZFdave said:


> This forum has been *very* helpful, but I have to say it would be nice to compile some updated posts and start a new sticky with new current information. Just my 2cents. Thanks again.


What size drive are you planning on putting in the TiVo HD? If it is 1TB or less, then WinMFS is the way to go. Even if it is a 1.5 or 2TB, you will want to use WinMFS after the JMFS copy to maximize usable space via "Supersize" and to make a truncated backup in case of disaster although you should also store the original drive somewhere safe.

If you've ever installed or replaced a hard drive in a computer, it's not much harder than that. With the currently available tools, it's way simpler than it was in the beginning.


----------



## YZFdave

lpwcomp said:


> Sorry if I overreacted. I got some bad news on the health front Thursday.


Thanks, hope all is ok.



lpwcomp said:


> Not counting the screws, it's only 4 pieces - cover, hard drive mount, hard drive, and the rest .... One of the things that is not in the sticky is the potential problem posed by attaching a TiVo drive to a Gigabyte Motherboard. Note: Gigabyte is a brand and does not refer to size or speed.


Taking out the HD and replacing is the easy part :up: (finding the time to complete everything at once is the issue, but next Saturday is the day). You mentioned the Gigabyte motherboard.... what's the issue with that? I think the computer I'm using is that brand.



lpwcomp said:


> What size drive are you planning on putting in the TiVo HD? If it is 1TB or less, then WinMFS is the way to go. Even if it is a 1.5 or 2TB, you will want to use WinMFS after the JMFS copy to maximize usable space via "Supersize" and to make a truncated backup in case of disaster although you should also store the original drive somewhere safe.
> 
> If you've ever installed or replaced a hard drive in a computer, it's not much harder than that. With the currently available tools, it's way simpler than it was in the beginning.


I have the Tivo HD TCD652160 stock drive, upgrading to a 2TB Western Digital AV-GP WD20EURS drive. My plan is to use JMFS, then WinMFS to supersize.

Questions: 

JMFS will copy the Tivo data and my shows to the new drive, and allow it to be a full 2TB instead of the 1.2TB, right? 
WinMFS's function is to "supersize" and that's it? You said use it to "Copy and supersize". is it copying any data or only supersizing? 
Also, does WinMFS work on Win7 machine?
Given it's a WD drive, do I still need to use wdidle3 to disable Intellapark? 
The drive I chose is good? Seemed like it was made for this type of application and somewhere along in the threads I think I saw it was a recommended one.

Thanks!!


----------



## steve614

YZFdave said:


> 1. JMFS will copy the Tivo data and my shows to the new drive, and allow it to be a full 2TB instead of the 1.2TB, right?


Yes, JMFS will 'copy' (this includes the all data already on the hard drive) and 'expand' the hard drive, then you use WinMFS to "supersize"


> 2. WinMFS's function is to "supersize" and that's it? You said use it to "Copy and supersize". is it copying any data or only supersizing?


Since you are upgrading to a 2TB hard drive, you have to use JMFS first, then the only thing you need WinMFS for is the supersize.
If you are only upgrading to a 1 or 1.5TB, you can use WinMFS by itself. No need for JMFS.


> 3. Also, does WinMFS work on Win7 machine?


Yes, but note: you have to right click on the .exe and 'run as administrator'.


> 4. Given it's a WD drive, do I still need to use wdidle3 to disable Intellapark?


Only certain models use the intellipark feature. You may not need to do that for the drive you are using. At worse, if you find out you need to use it, it can be done after the fact with no ill effects.
The symptom is the Tivo will not recover from a menu (soft) restart. It just goes into a reboot loop. Pulling the plug (hard restart) will correct that issue.
Maybe someone will recognize the model you plan on using and will be able to tell you for sure.


> 5. The drive I chose is good? Seemed like it was made for this type of application and somewhere along in the threads I think I saw it was a recommended one.


It's most likely just fine. It may depend on whether this Tivo is in your entertainment center or in your bedroom (most common hard drive complaint is the noise).


----------



## lpwcomp

YZFdave said:


> You mentioned the Gigabyte motherboard.... what's the issue with that? I think the computer I'm using is that brand.


A lot of Gigabyte MBs have this "feature" where they write a copy of the BIOS to a so called Host Protected Area(HPA) on all direct connected disks. Your particular MB may not have this feature, it may not affect all sata ports, it may not effect eSata connected disks, you may be able to disable it and the disable may actually work. While it will increase the time required for the copy, the safest way to use a Gigabyte MB for this is to use USB connected docks. Note that a dual dock won't work. You need two separate docks.



> I have the Tivo HD TCD652160 stock drive, upgrading to a 2TB Western Digital AV-GP WD20EURS drive. My plan is to use JMFS, then WinMFS to supersize.


I would also use WinMFS to create a truncated backup of the original drive.



> Questions:
> 
> Given it's a WD drive, do I still need to use wdidle3 to disable Intellapark?


Even on the WD website, it's difficult to tell if Intellipark is enabled on this drive model. Some places indicate that it is, others don't mention it specifically while they do talk about Intellipower and Intelliseek. This is where the Gigabyte MB problem comes into play. What I would do if possible is connect it via eSata first and run wdidle3. Then reconnect it via USB to do the JMFS copy & expand and the WinMFS Supersize. Even if you had to connect it via internal Sata, hopefully the copy will overwrite the HPA if indeed it was used. If you have to connect it via internal Sata, avoid the first port. There is some data available that indicates that the HPA will only be used on that port. The data is mixed at best.

I know this sounds more complex than it should be and it is. Personally, I would like to take the Gigabyte engineers and have them shot.


----------



## unitron

YZFdave said:


> ...You mentioned the Gigabyte motherboard.... what's the issue with that? I think the computer I'm using is that brand.
> 
> I have the Tivo HD TCD652160 stock drive, upgrading to a 2TB Western Digital AV-GP WD20EURS drive. My plan is to use JMFS, then WinMFS to supersize.
> ...


That drive should work fine.

Go here for a link to an image of a bootable cd with wdidle3 on it.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7652412#post7652412

GigaByte boards look for the first IDE/PATA drive and assume that's going to be the boot drive and put the HPA at the end of that.

If no hard drive is hooked to the IDE controller(s) they go for the first SATA.

If you have a drive from which that computer boots (the one with Windows on it), then as long as it's on the first IDE or first SATA port, you shouldn't have a problem, since you won't be using the IDE for an S3 upgrade.

It will already have put an HPA on the boot drive.

Just be aware that you have a boot drive attached and be sure not to accidentally overwrite it.

If you really want to get "down into the weeds" on the HPA subject, you can look for one with the "extremely dangerous if you don't know what you're doing"

hdparm

command on the MFS Live cd v1.4 (a copy of which you should burn for yourself for the other useful stuff on it).

It and WinMFS, along with some instructions, are available at

http://mfslive.org


----------



## YZFdave

lpwcomp said:


> the safest way ... is to use USB connected docks.


Okay I'm in the middle of this upgrade and about to pack it up and have to try a different day. I'm trying to do the JMFS copy, and it's saying it doesn't recognize that there is a Tivo drive connected. I have my original drive connected, and the new drive both on SATA plugged directly into the MB. I've switched the two SATA cables and power cables, and still the same result.

Thoughts?

It was mentioned about a USB dock connecter. What is that?

http://www.amazon.com/Drive-Adapter...F8&qid=1339272149&sr=8-2&keywords=usb+to+sata

will that work? If yes, is there any part of this process that it won't work for?

By the way, it's an Abit MB, not a Gigabit so hopefully i'm in the clear about the "feature" mentioned above with copying the file over when connected to SATA.

Thanks!


----------



## unitron

YZFdave said:


> Okay I'm in the middle of this upgrade and about to pack it up and have to try a different day. I'm trying to do the JMFS copy, and it's saying it doesn't recognize that there is a Tivo drive connected. I have my original drive connected, and the new drive both on SATA plugged directly into the MB. I've switched the two SATA cables and power cables, and still the same result.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> It was mentioned about a USB dock connecter. What is that?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Drive-Adapter...F8&qid=1339272149&sr=8-2&keywords=usb+to+sata
> 
> will that work? If yes, is there any part of this process that it won't work for?
> 
> By the way, it's an Abit MB, not a Gigabit so hopefully i'm in the clear about the "feature" mentioned above with copying the file over when connected to SATA.
> 
> Thanks!


If you have the drives connected directly to the motherboard, that should work as well as, if not better than, any other method.

Burn yourself a copy of the MFS Live cd and boot with it and see (I think it's either CTRL+PageUp or Shift+PageUp that lets you go back up the screen) if it finds the drives connected, but first go into BIOS/CMOS when booting to see if they show as connected there.

You might be able to go back up the jmfs boot screen to see if it sees the drives.

A USB dock connector plugs into a USB port on the computer and the other end either plugs onto the drive or the connector end of the drive drops down into it like bread in a toaster. It's sort of like an external enclosure that's not enclosed.


----------



## a68oliver

I am also having similar problems as YZFdave. 

I purchased a 1 Tb WD10EADS to replace my drive in an S3 (TCD648250B). I used a two drive docking adapter to run WinMFS. I made a truncated backup on my PC, backed up the bootpage, and then ran MFScopy. I expanded and supersized the drive. Everything appeared to work properly.

Then I installed the new drive in the PC and unplugged all drives except the CD and booted from the CD. Wdidle3 doesn't see the new drive. I finally gave up and decided to install the new drive in the Tivo for now until I could sort out the problem.

The Tivo gets stuck on the "Welcome powering up" screen. I assumed it would still boot from a cold start, but get stuck during a soft reset from the menu, etc. I reinstalled the original drive and the Tivo functions normally.

I read the warning about changing the BIOS settings so that the drive would be detected when booting from a CD. My mobo is also an Abit and probably 4 years old or more. I didn't see anything in BIOS that resembled what the warning was talking about.

Am I correct that I don't have to worry about "Advanced Format" with this drive? The antistatic bag warns to check the drive sticker but the sticker makes no reference to advanced format.

Shouldn't I at least be able to get the Tivo running even without wdidle3?


----------



## unitron

a68oliver said:


> I am also having similar problems as YZFdave.
> 
> I purchased a 1 Tb WD10EADS to replace my drive in an S3 (TCD648250B). I used a two drive docking adapter to run WinMFS. I made a truncated backup on my PC, backed up the bootpage, and then ran MFScopy. I expanded and supersized the drive. Everything appeared to work properly.
> 
> Then I installed the new drive in the PC and unplugged all drives except the CD and booted from the CD. Wdidle3 doesn't see the new drive. I finally gave up and decided to install the new drive in the Tivo for now until I could sort out the problem.
> 
> The Tivo gets stuck on the "Welcome powering up" screen. I assumed it would still boot from a cold start, but get stuck during a soft reset from the menu, etc. I reinstalled the original drive and the Tivo functions normally.
> 
> I read the warning about changing the BIOS settings so that the drive would be detected when booting from a CD. My mobo is also an Abit and probably 4 years old or more. I didn't see anything in BIOS that resembled what the warning was talking about.
> 
> Am I correct that I don't have to worry about "Advanced Format" with this drive? The antistatic bag warns to check the drive sticker but the sticker makes no reference to advanced format.
> 
> Shouldn't I at least be able to get the Tivo running even without wdidle3?


If the sticker on the top of that EADS doesn't actually mention AF, you're probably okay on that. What date of manufacture does it give?

Can you hook the drive directly to a SATA port on the PC motherboard long enough to boot from the cd with wdidle3 on it and run that?


----------



## lpwcomp

a68oliver said:


> I am also having similar problems as YZFdave.
> 
> I purchased a 1 Tb WD10EADS to replace my drive in an S3 (TCD648250B). I used a two drive docking adapter to run WinMFS. I made a truncated backup on my PC, backed up the bootpage, and then ran MFScopy. I expanded and supersized the drive. Everything appeared to work properly.
> 
> Then I installed the new drive in the PC and unplugged all drives except the CD and booted from the CD. Wdidle3 doesn't see the new drive. I finally gave up and decided to install the new drive in the Tivo for now until I could sort out the problem.
> 
> The Tivo gets stuck on the "Welcome powering up" screen. I assumed it would still boot from a cold start, but get stuck during a soft reset from the menu, etc. I reinstalled the original drive and the Tivo functions normally.
> 
> I read the warning about changing the BIOS settings so that the drive would be detected when booting from a CD. My mobo is also an Abit and probably 4 years old or more. I didn't see anything in BIOS that resembled what the warning was talking about.
> 
> Am I correct that I don't have to worry about "Advanced Format" with this drive? The antistatic bag warns to check the drive sticker but the sticker makes no reference to advanced format.
> 
> Shouldn't I at least be able to get the Tivo running even without wdidle3?


wdidle3 shouldn't be the problem. Intelllipark only affects soft boots. I was under the impression though that none of the TiVo upgrade tools worked properly on a dual dock.


----------



## unitron

lpwcomp said:


> wdidle3 shouldn't be the problem. Intelllipark only affects soft boots. I was under the impression though that none of the TiVo upgrade tools worked properly on a dual dock.


I don't know if a dual dock will defeat a drive to drive transfer, but if you're restoring from a truncated backup on the PC's main hard drive or a USB thumb drive or a cd, it seems like it ought to work.

wdidle3, however, works on a lower level on the chips on the drive's paddle board if I'm not mistaken, and the drive has to be connected directly to an IDE or SATA controller for it to be able to do that.


----------



## lpwcomp

unitron said:


> I don't know if a dual dock will defeat a drive to drive transfer, but if you're restoring from a truncated backup on the PC's main hard drive or a USB thumb drive or a cd, it seems like it ought to work.


I am not sure that's true if both drives are installed. In any case, that's not what he did. Yes, he made a truncated backup on his PC but he used MFScopy to write to the new drive, not a WinMFS restore from the backup.



unitron said:


> wdidle3, however, works on a lower level on the chips on the drive's paddle board if I'm not mistaken, and the drive has to be connected directly to an IDE or SATA controller for it to be able to do that.


That is correct. However, as I said, intellipark being enabled only affects soft boots. A hard boot should still function properly.

I'm assuming you want to do a full copy to retain your recordings. I would suggest you redo the whole thing using separate docks or at least one of them directly connected if you have any spare SATA connections. If you neither a separate dock nor any spare SATA connections, I would suggest doing what you did to run wdidle3 except connect both hard drives and boot up an MFSlive CD to do everything.


----------



## a68oliver

unitron said:


> If the sticker on the top of that EADS doesn't actually mention AF, you're probably okay on that. What date of manufacture does it give?
> 
> Can you hook the drive directly to a SATA port on the PC motherboard long enough to boot from the cd with wdidle3 on it and run that?


No sign of AF on the lable. Date of manufacture is 9/29/11.

When I hook the drive directly to the motherboard and boot from the CD, the drive is not detected. So wdidle3 also reports that it can't find the drive. I may go back into the motherboard BIOS again and look for some settings to help it detect the drive. The FAQ notes: "If you have a newer PC, you may need to enter your PC BIOS and temporarily switch your SATA controller to EIDE mode from AHCI/RAID. This change is needed before a bootable DOS CD can detect the drive on some newer PC's." I wouldn't call this a newer PC and I can't find any settings that sound like this.

I think I will plug the drive back into the USB dock and run winMFS again to read some info off the drive.

I note that there are some jumper settings available on the drive. They are all jumperless (set to default). Anybody know if anything needs to changed?


----------



## unitron

a68oliver said:


> No sign of AF on the lable. Date of manufacture is 9/29/11.
> 
> When I hook the drive directly to the motherboard and boot from the CD, the drive is not detected. So wdidle3 also reports that it can't find the drive. I may go back into the motherboard BIOS again and look for some settings to help it detect the drive. The FAQ notes: "If you have a newer PC, you may need to enter your PC BIOS and temporarily switch your SATA controller to EIDE mode from AHCI/RAID. This change is needed before a bootable DOS CD can detect the drive on some newer PC's." I wouldn't call this a newer PC and I can't find any settings that sound like this.
> 
> I think I will plug the drive back into the USB dock and run winMFS again to read some info off the drive.
> 
> I note that there are some jumper settings available on the drive. They are all jumperless (set to default). Anybody know if anything needs to changed?


I think one of them changes it from autonegotiating the SATA rate (either 1.5 or 3) to strapping it down to 1.5, which can help with some older SATA controllers that not only just do 1.5 but were never designed to to communicate with drives that were capable of making a choice in the matter.

WD no longer wants to admit that the EADS line even exists, but I found enough to refresh my memory without having to take anything apart or rummage through boxes.

Jumper pins 5 and 6 ON THAT MODEL (it may not be the same on other models) to step it down from 3Gb/s to a forced 1.5

Maybe then your old mobo will like it.


----------



## a68oliver

I am away from my Tivo right now, but before I left, I put the new drive back into one slot of the dual dock to see if I could read info with winMFS info menu. It identified the drive as a S2 or S3 drive and showed all the normal boot and partition info. It appeared that the drive had properly been written to. At least I could read some of the drive specs. I can post the results of the info querry if that would prove helpful.

I understand that the Intellipark function should only affect the soft boot function and not the hard reset from pulling the plug. However, the drive behaves as described from a soft boot or as if the SATA cable is not even plugged in. I simply get the Welcome Powering Up screen.

Since the wdidle3 boot CD does not detect the drive when plugged into the SATA port on the mobo, I fear that if I tried MFS and both drives plugged into the mobo, it also would not detect the drives.

I have a friend who is a pretty good computer geek who will return from travels on Monday and I could try taking taking the drive to him and see if we coud run wdidle3 on his machines to eliminate that portion of the equation.

Then I could proceed with other options.


----------



## unitron

a68oliver said:


> ...
> 
> I have a friend who is a pretty good computer geek who will return from travels on Monday and I could try taking taking the drive to him and see if we coud run wdidle3 on his machines to eliminate that portion of the equation.
> 
> Then I could proceed with other options.


That's troubleshooting, eliminate variables.

You don't need the Intellipark feature on a TiVo, so disable it.

You don't need DHCP for a TiVo, so give it a fixed IP address.

If you're relying on the quality of the power company's electricity, you don't know on which side of the wall socket the problem is, so use a UPS.

Eliminate variables.


----------



## a68oliver

unitron said:


> That's troubleshooting, eliminate variables.
> 
> You don't need the Intellipark feature on a TiVo, so disable it.
> 
> Eliminate variables.


Yes. I want to take this one step at a time. The old drive is back in the Tivo, so I am not missing out on any programs. It may be time consuming to troubleshoot, but it really is the only logical way to solve this problem.


----------



## Just a J0e

This last Christmas I finally broke down and upgraded. I got an HDT Series 4.
It has been wonderful but with the Summer Olympics rapidly approaching I realized I'm suddenly in the need of a LOT more space.

I want to go with a "plug and play" external option.

After reading through 400+ posts in this thread, I was unable to find a summary on this topic but here is what I think I have learned - 

1) The 500gb Western Digital My Book will last 12 to 15 months before it dies.

2) The new 1TB Western Digital My Book does not have many performance reports here. I have found two. One began acting up in a month. The other died after 7 months.

3) Bad SATA cables are a common issue. There is a list of recommended cables somewhere in the 8000+ posts in this thread but I have not found it yet.

4) You can plug in an external drive WITHOUT loosing the existing data on your series 3-4 HDT. HOWEVER ... when your external drive dies you will loose ALL your data on both drives.

I am hoping some of the thread regulars will correct me on any of this if I have it wrong.

Also - I have not run across any posts so far discussing the performance of Weaknees' vastly more expensive external SATA drive. Does anyone have any performance stories on these?

Are there any External 1TB SATA drives that the TiVo community DOES recommend? 

I know the WD drives are only $99 but to me that is not much of the deal if it dies in a year and takes all my recordings with it. I don't know that I'd pay $300 more for the Weaknees one ... but if it was going to last 4 times longer ... it might be worth it for the stress I'd avoid.

Thanks.


----------



## dwit

Just a J0e said:


> This last Christmas I finally broke down and upgraded. I got an HDT Series 4.
> It has been wonderful but with the Summer Olympics rapidly approaching I realized I'm suddenly in the need of a LOT more space.
> 
> I want to go with a "plug and play" external option.
> 
> After reading through 400+ posts in this thread, I was unable to find a summary on this topic but here is what I think I have learned -
> 
> 1) The 500gb Western Digital My Book will last 12 to 15 months before it dies.
> 
> 2) The new 1TB Western Digital My Book does not have many performance reports here. I have found two. One began acting up in a month. The other died after 7 months.
> 
> 3) Bad SATA cables are a common issue. There is a list of recommended cables somewhere in the 8000+ posts in this thread but I have not found it yet.
> 
> 4) You can plug in an external drive WITHOUT loosing the existing data on your series 3-4 HDT. HOWEVER ... when your external drive dies you will loose ALL your data on both drives.
> 
> I am hoping some of the thread regulars will correct me on any of this if I have it wrong.
> 
> Also - I have not run across any posts so far discussing the performance of Weaknees' vastly more expensive external SATA drive. Does anyone have any performance stories on these?
> 
> Are there any External 1TB SATA drives that the TiVo community DOES recommend?
> 
> I know the WD drives are only $99 but to me that is not much of the deal if it dies in a year and takes all my recordings with it. I don't know that I'd pay $300 more for the Weaknees one ... but if it was going to last 4 times longer ... it might be worth it for the stress I'd avoid.
> 
> Thanks.


1,2: Don't know much about the WD ext drives, except what I read here also. Pretty crappy life span seems to be not uncommon. However, since you need "plug and play", *the WD ext drive is your only option*. That is even if you can find one.

3. Any good after market cable. It's just the cable included with the WD, and even many other ext drive kits may not be "up to snuff" to work reliably with the Tivo. Even with a quality cable, you still need to be very conscientious about the connection being undisturbed.

4. Unless the drive/os crashes, all data(recordings) made during the initial single internal drive phase remains intact. In general, only the recordings made when/after the external drive was added will be lost if the ex drive fails, or is removed. The initial "single drive recordings" will still be there.

Best route is to study up and do the work yourself to upgrade to a single internal 2TB drive.


----------



## unitron

Just a J0e said:


> This last Christmas I finally broke down and upgraded. I got an HDT Series 4.
> It has been wonderful but with the Summer Olympics rapidly approaching I realized I'm suddenly in the need of a LOT more space.
> 
> I want to go with a "plug and play" external option.
> 
> After reading through 400+ posts in this thread, I was unable to find a summary on this topic but here is what I think I have learned -
> 
> 1) The 500gb Western Digital My Book will last 12 to 15 months before it dies.
> 
> 2) The new 1TB Western Digital My Book does not have many performance reports here. I have found two. One began acting up in a month. The other died after 7 months.
> 
> 3) Bad SATA cables are a common issue. There is a list of recommended cables somewhere in the 8000+ posts in this thread but I have not found it yet.
> 
> 4) You can plug in an external drive WITHOUT loosing the existing data on your series 3-4 HDT. HOWEVER ... when your external drive dies you will loose ALL your data on both drives.
> 
> I am hoping some of the thread regulars will correct me on any of this if I have it wrong.
> 
> Also - I have not run across any posts so far discussing the performance of Weaknees' vastly more expensive external SATA drive. Does anyone have any performance stories on these?
> 
> Are there any External 1TB SATA drives that the TiVo community DOES recommend?
> 
> I know the WD drives are only $99 but to me that is not much of the deal if it dies in a year and takes all my recordings with it. I don't know that I'd pay $300 more for the Weaknees one ... but if it was going to last 4 times longer ... it might be worth it for the stress I'd avoid.
> 
> Thanks.


The original Series 3 didn't come out promising to work with an external drive, some people, noticing the eSATA port on the back, figured out how to make it do so before TiVo was ready to implement that feature, which prevented TiVo from doing what they subsequently did with the S3 HD, the S3 HD XL, and then later, all of the S4 models.

What that was was to write the software so that only specific WD models would be accepted by the TiVo.

The couldn't add that resriction in a software update to the original S3s, because that would have disabled the external drives people were already using with that model.

It's not that hard to use jmfs to copy the original Premiere drive to a 2TB and expand it and just have one 2TB internal drive and avoid all of the risks inherent in using an external.


----------



## Teeps

unitron said:


> It's not that hard to use jmfs to copy the original Premiere drive to a 2TB and expand it and just have one 2TB internal drive and avoid all of the risks inherent in using an external.


This is excellent advice.
I did the 2TB drive upgrade to my S3 almost a year ago.


----------



## a68oliver

To refresh our collective memories:



a68oliver said:


> I am also having similar problems as YZFdave.
> 
> I purchased a 1 Tb WD10EADS to replace my drive in an S3 (TCD648250B). I used a two drive docking adapter to run WinMFS. I made a truncated backup on my PC, backed up the bootpage, and then ran MFScopy. I expanded and supersized the drive. Everything appeared to work properly.
> 
> Then I installed the new drive in the PC and unplugged all drives except the CD and booted from the CD. Wdidle3 doesn't see the new drive. I finally gave up and decided to install the new drive in the Tivo for now until I could sort out the problem.
> 
> The Tivo gets stuck on the "Welcome powering up" screen. I assumed it would still boot from a cold start, but get stuck during a soft reset from the menu, etc. I reinstalled the original drive and the Tivo functions normally.
> 
> I read the warning about changing the BIOS settings so that the drive would be detected when booting from a CD. My mobo is also an Abit and probably 4 years old or more. I didn't see anything in BIOS that resembled what the warning was talking about.
> 
> Am I correct that I don't have to worry about "Advanced Format" with this drive? The antistatic bag warns to check the drive sticker but the sticker makes no reference to advanced format.
> 
> Shouldn't I at least be able to get the Tivo running even without wdidle3?


My computer geek friend and I finally solved the problem and it was not what you would expect.

I had successfuly copied the original drive to the new 1Tb WD10EADS using WiinMFS and a Thermaltake dual hard drive docking station. I had expanded and supersized the drive. I couldn't get wdidle3 to recognized the new drive when plugged into the mother board. The new drive woudln't boot in the Tivo.

I also couldn't get MFS boot CD to recognize the drive so I couldn't repeat the copy with that. Either the drivers on the boot CDs didn't support my motherboard or the bios wouldn't detect the drives when booting from the CD (as suggested in some of the instructions). I never could find anyplace in the bios to change that.

So I thought my friend and I would have to start from scratch and copy the drive all over again using his computer and his SATA ports, etc. HOWEVER, I thought that we would try wdidle3 first since that would take only a few minutes. Now this was somewhat counter-intuitive since the Intellipark feature should only affect soft boots from the menu, etc. I was getting stuck on Welcome Powering up as suggested with a soft boot. So we ran wdidle3 on the previously WinMFS copied drive and popped it in the Tivo. SUCCESS. It booted correctly. Wdidle 3 reported the default configuration of the drive as 8 seconds. We set it to disabled.

*So the reports of a cold boot working and a soft boot not working are in error. * At least with this drive and my Tivo S3 OLED. Again, this was a WD10EADS with a manufacture date of 9/29/11.

The new drive appears to be running cool and quiet with no problems. The suggestions have not recorded yet, but the Tivo has not been running 24 hours. By the time we "fixed" the Intellipark problem, the image was 10 days old and it was nearly out of programming data. I assume after Tivo finishes a complete indexing of the new programming, the suggestions will resume.


----------



## unitron

a68oliver said:


> To refresh our collective memories:
> 
> My computer geek friend and I finally solved the problem and it was not what you would expect.
> 
> I had successfuly copied the original drive to the new 1Tb WD10EADS using WiinMFS and a Thermaltake dual hard drive docking station. I had expanded and supersized the drive. I couldn't get wdidle3 to recognized the new drive when plugged into the mother board. The new drive woudln't boot in the Tivo.
> 
> I also couldn't get MFS boot CD to recognize the drive so I couldn't repeat the copy with that. Either the drivers on the boot CDs didn't support my motherboard or the bios wouldn't detect the drives when booting from the CD (as suggested in some of the instructions). I never could find anyplace in the bios to change that.
> 
> So I thought my friend and I would have to start from scratch and copy the drive all over again using his computer and his SATA ports, etc. HOWEVER, I thought that we would try wdidle3 first since that would take only a few minutes. Now this was somewhat counter-intuitive since the Intellipark feature should only affect soft boots from the menu, etc. I was getting stuck on Welcome Powering up as suggested with a soft boot. So we ran wdidle3 on the previously WinMFS copied drive and popped it in the Tivo. SUCCESS. It booted correctly. Wdidle 3 reported the default configuration of the drive as 8 seconds. We set it to disabled.
> 
> *So the reports of a cold boot working and a soft boot not working are in error. * At least with this drive and my Tivo S3 OLED. Again, this was a WD10EADS with a manufacture date of 9/29/11.
> 
> The new drive appears to be running cool and quiet with no problems. The suggestions have not recorded yet, but the Tivo has not been running 24 hours. By the time we "fixed" the Intellipark problem, the image was 10 days old and it was nearly out of programming data. I assume after Tivo finishes a complete indexing of the new programming, the suggestions will resume.


So are you saying that disabling Intellipark fixed a cold booting problem?


----------



## a68oliver

unitron said:


> So are you saying that disabling Intellipark fixed a cold booting problem?


Exactly.

Leave it to someone to say in one sentance what I attempted to say in multiple paragraphs. lol

The only thing we did was disable Intellipark and the drive cold booted correctly. It also soft boots, too.


----------



## unitron

a68oliver said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Leave it to someone to say in one sentance what I attempted to say in multiple paragraphs. lol
> 
> The only thing we did was disable Intellipark and the drive cold booted correctly. It also soft boots, too.


Yes, but you stumbled onto a previously missing data point whose existance was not suspected, although "stumbled upon" makes it sound more accidental than it was, because you had your brain working on the problem and refused to give up trying to solve it.

:up::up::up:


----------



## edtude

Going to crosspost this from the Upgrade forum because there just seems to be a bit more traffic here...looking for some guidance

Ok I tried my upgrade with mixed success and ultimate failure. Hopefully someone can tell me how to recover.

With a 2 TB WD20EURS I removed my 160GB hard drive from my Tivo HD and put the two drives in my desktop and booted up with JMFS. Everything went great here, copied from my original to my new drive took an hour and forty five minutes. I *DID NOT* expand at this time, so here was my first mistake. I exited JMFS and removed my original Tivo disk and booted my desktop with my normal drive and ran Winmfs. Picked my new Tivo drive and Supersized with no issues. Installed my new Tivo drive in the Tivo it booted up fine and I was watching TV of course I had no more then my original limited recording space.

So I went back to the beginning of this thread and found that I was supposed to expand using JMFS. So I figured I would go backwards meaning I removed the new drive from my Tivo, installed in desktop ran WinMFS and turned off Supersize. Booted in to JMFS and selected Expand, it wuickly came back and told me I had 288 hours of recording space. I then rebooted into Windows to gain that extra 30 hours of recording space with WinMFS. It acknowledged Supersize turning on.

I then installed the new drive into the Tivo and I get the Powering Up screen for a few seconds and then everything goes grey for at least 10 minutes which is longer then it has ever taken me to reboot.

So before screwing the pooch any further I reinstalled my old drive and it booted up fine and my wife is happy. I am not of course. How do I reover my new drive? Do I format it and start over? Suggestions....

Thanks


----------



## unitron

edtude said:


> Going to crosspost this from the Upgrade forum because there just seems to be a bit more traffic here...looking for some guidance
> 
> Ok I tried my upgrade with mixed success and ultimate failure. Hopefully someone can tell me how to recover.
> 
> With a 2 TB WD20EURS I removed my 160GB hard drive from my Tivo HD and put the two drives in my desktop and booted up with JMFS. Everything went great here, copied from my original to my new drive took an hour and forty five minutes. I *DID NOT* expand at this time, so here was my first mistake. I exited JMFS and removed my original Tivo disk and booted my desktop with my normal drive and ran Winmfs. Picked my new Tivo drive and Supersized with no issues. Installed my new Tivo drive in the Tivo it booted up fine and I was watching TV of course I had no more then my original limited recording space.
> 
> So I went back to the beginning of this thread and found that I was supposed to expand using JMFS. So I figured I would go backwards meaning I removed the new drive from my Tivo, installed in desktop ran WinMFS and turned off Supersize. Booted in to JMFS and selected Expand, it wuickly came back and told me I had 288 hours of recording space. I then rebooted into Windows to gain that extra 30 hours of recording space with WinMFS. It acknowledged Supersize turning on.
> 
> I then installed the new drive into the Tivo and I get the Powering Up screen for a few seconds and then everything goes grey for at least 10 minutes which is longer then it has ever taken me to reboot.
> 
> So before screwing the pooch any further I reinstalled my old drive and it booted up fine and my wife is happy. I am not of course. How do I reover my new drive? Do I format it and start over? Suggestions....
> 
> Thanks


Have you run wdidle3 to make sure that Intellipark is disabled?


----------



## edtude

unitron said:


> Have you run wdidle3 to make sure that Intellipark is disabled?


No, but I am making the CD and am going to try it tonight. Probably won't be able to report back until tomorrow as it is time for my wife and daughter to enjoy their Sunday night shows.


----------



## edtude

Success!!!

I upgraded my Tivo HD from the standard 160Gb Hardrive to a WD20EURS 2Tb Hardrive using JMFS to copy, took approximately 1 hour and 45 minutes then expanded the drive to get me to 288HD hours. I then used WinMFS to gain that extra 30 hours of HD recording and finally booted into DOS and ran WDidle3 to finish the job. Installed the drive and I am up and running. In about a month I will upgrade my Premiere.


----------



## tlc

brentil said:


> *Beware of Advance Format 4K Drives!*
> 
> Below is the list of drives to avoid.
> 
> WD Drives
> 
> EARS (SATA II)
> EARX (SATA III)
> EZRX (SATA III)
> EURS (SATA II)
> EURX (SATA III)
> EUCX (SATA III)
> 
> Hitachi Drives
> 
> CinemaStar 5K1000.B (SATA III)
> CinemaStar 7K1000.D (SATA III)
> Deskstar 5K1000.B (SATA III)
> Deskstar 7K1000.D (SATA III)
> 
> Seagate Drives
> 
> ST1500DL003 (SATA III)
> ST2000DL003 (SATA III)
> 
> Hothardware did benchmarks to show the negative impact of running an un-aligned Advance Format 4K drive and the results are rather nasty. The drives run up to 3x SLOWER when used on a non-4K supporting OS with unaligned sectors.


Has this been debunked? This seems to cover about everything available. What are the good non-AF, low-speed AV drives now? 1TB or 2TB.

It's for an HD with 1TB and I'm hoping to do one of the approaches that saves my recordings, etc.

Thanks,
tlc


----------



## dlfl

tlc said:


> Has this been debunked? This seems to cover about everything available. What are the good non-AF, low-speed AV drives now? 1TB or 2TB.
> 
> It's for an HD with 1TB and I'm hoping to do one of the approaches that saves my recordings, etc.
> 
> Thanks,
> tlc


There are people reporting successful upgrades with AF drives. Hopefully these are not just "initial" successes with long term problems waiting to surface.

Good luck finding a non-AF drive now. And beware of a trap I fell into, which is that drives that were initially manufactured as non-AF (e.g., WD10EADS) have been refurbished as AF drives and are being sold under the exact same model number. On WD drives, (according to WD), the label on the drive will say "Advanced Format Drive" if it is one, including drives that were originally non-AF and have been remanufactured as AF.

As I understand it, an AF drive has to do more work when it writes data and is emulating a non-AF drive. It has to do a read-modify-write cycle. The AF drives are probably fast enough to do this without degrading TiVo performance but I wonder if the extra wear-and-tear won't impact drive longevity. This is not an issue if the operating system can be "aligned" with the 4KB sectors used in AF drives.  Win7 and Vista are supposedly already aligned. XP systems are not and WD provides a "tool" to perform the alignment on those systems. TiVo uses Linux. The newer versions of Linux used on more recent TiVo models (Premiere I think) can support 4K alignment but older versions can't. I queried DVR Dude and weaknees about this issue and they both say they properly account for this alignment issue when supplying plug-in TiVo drives. How they could do this for the older TiVos (e.g., Tivo HD, S3) given the OS doesn't support it is a mystery to me.


----------



## Lussie

I have just upgraded my old Tivo S3 (one with the OLED Display) to *2TB* from an *already upgraded 1TB Drive*. 

I didn't lose any shows either. :up:

So far it seems to be working. I'll give it 2 weeks to see if it is ok.

Anyway, I did this using *Windows 7*, on my laptop with a Startech USB 3.0 Dual 2.5/3.5in SATA Hard Drive Docking Station. (from Amazon: *SATDOCK22U3S*)

Also *I used a non-AF drive*: Hitachi Deskstar 3.5" 2TB 7200RPM SATA III 32MB Cache Internal Hard Drive (from Amazon: *0S02861*)

I used the following software:

winmfs (beta build 9.3f)
iBored (1.1.10)

*STEP 1*

Start winmfs by right-clicking "*Run as Administrator*"
Go to Tools->MFSCopy

I Un-checked "Custom Linux Swap Size"
However *I DID CHECK "No Optimized Partition Layout"*

Click "Start" to start the copy. It took 5-6 hours for the copy to complete. 
(Yay! USB 3.0)

After the copy finishes, You will see a dialog that says "_You have extra capacity on your Hard drive. Do you want to expand?_"

*CLICK NO*

Select the "View" Menu item and click "MFSInfo"

Note that there are 16 partitions with the last one listed as "Apple_Free"
We need to delete that last partition in Step 2.

Exit Winmfs and* EJECT YOUR TIVO SOURCE DRIVE*

*STEP 2*

Start iBored by right-clicking "*Run as Administrator*"

Select your "newly copied" tivo drive

iBored should start out on Block"0"

Go to block 16 (Either type "16" in the upper left text-panel or press CTRL-RightArrow 16 times)

in Block 16, click the "*Template*" tab

Make sure that "*Apple Partition Map:AMP Entry*" is selected in the combo box on the right. If it is not selected, make sure you select it (it's the first one)

In the Menu, Click "BlockView" -> "Make Writable"

*We are now going to erase block 16! *

Click the "*Disk*" Menu item and Select "*Erase Blocks*"

You will see a Specify Block Range Dialog
Mine had the Following:

Block Size: 512 (because I used a non-AF drive)
Start Block: 16 (The block we are on)
Block Count: [_SOME HUGE NUMBER_]

Change Block Count to "1"

Click OK

You will see a "_*Really Erase?*_" dialog. Click "*Erase*"
(*NOTE:* If you see a "_write failed: writing is not enabled_" dialog, then it means that you need to select BlockView->Make Writable)

BLOCK 16 should now be clear.

Now, move to block 15. (CTRL-LeftArrow)
Note that "*blocks in partition map*" is "*16*" 
We need to change this value to "*15*" in blocks 1-15.

Lets do this by moving backwards.

_For each block 15 to 1 do the following:_

*BlockView->Make Writable*
 Change "*blocks in partition map*" to *15 *
 *BlockView->Save Changes*
 CTRL-LeftArrow (to go to previous block)

ok. So now you are at block 1. Just to make sure that you changed all the entries, verify that "blocks in partition map" is "15" for blocks 1-15.

Exit iBored

*STEP 3*

Start WinMFS again (*Right-Click "Run as Administrator"*)

Select Tools->MFSadd

You will get a warning about Tivo not handling partitions greater than 1 TB, but just ignore it (_hopefully, you have Tivo Software *version 11.0* on your tivo_)

_*Edited for SuperSize (Sorry I forgot that in the original post)*
_
*In Winmfs, click on Tools->MFSSuperSize->On*

That's it.

You now have a Tivo S3 with a 2TB Drive giving you *318 HD hours* or *2777 SD hours*.

Cheers, 
-Kevin

P.S. 
_I also upgraded my Tivo HD from an already upgraded 1 TB to 2 TB Drive (*same Hitachi as listed above*) using a similar method but replacing *Step 3* with *using JMFS* to expand it, but *WinMFS to supersize*. (Also didn't lose any shows and has been running for about 1 month now.)_


----------



## S3-2501

Lussie said:


> I have just upgraded my old Tivo S3 (one with the OLED Display) to *2TB* from an *already upgraded 1TB Drive*.
> 
> I didn't lose any shows either. :up:
> 
> So far it seems to be working. I'll give it 2 weeks to see if it is ok.


 Wow, if this proves to be a reliable method, you will be a real hero to S3 owners Everywhere.:up: Please keep us posted! I'm itching to migrate my S3's 1TB drive to 2TB and it's going to take some real restraint on my part not to purchase a new drive right away based on your post. I'm just a bit hesitant since it all still sounds too good to be true at this point.

One question though, following your method above there's no need to use the Supersize option at all to get the full 318 hours?

Thanks for the post!


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Lussie said:


> I have just upgraded my old Tivo S3 (one with the OLED Display) to *2TB* from an *already upgraded 1TB Drive*.
> 
> I didn't lose any shows either. :up:
> 
> So far it seems to be working. I'll give it 2 weeks to see if it is ok.
> 
> Anyway, I did this using *Windows 7*...


Agreed, this is pretty cool.

So for the Linux guys out there, like me....any guesses what similar sequence of commands would duplicate this using the latest Linux boot CD (which at mfslife.org appears to be mfslive-1.4.iso)?


----------



## hummingbird_206

Lussie said:


> I have just upgraded my old Tivo S3 (one with the OLED Display) to *2TB* from an *already upgraded 1TB Drive*.
> 
> I didn't lose any shows either. :up:


Wow, this is great info. Thanks for sharing! I have a 1TB in my S3 that has gotten really noisy. I've been wanting to change it out, but didn't want to lose a bunch of shows I have saved on it. I will for sure give this a try!

How noisy/quiet is the drive you're using (Hitachi Deskstar 3.5" 2TB 7200RPM SATA III 32MB)?


----------



## S3-2501

I couldn't resist, and just ordered a WD20EURS to test Lussie's instructions out with. I'm pretty sure it's an advanced format drive like most new drives, but I like that I'll know it's as quiet as can be and comes with a 3-year warranty.

I've only got USB2, so it's likely to take a very long time to copy my current 1TB over, but I'll follow the steps exactly and report back with my results. The drive should get here mid-week, so if things go smoothly I _*may*_ be able to report back at the end of the week or over the weekend. *gulp*


----------



## hummingbird_206

Excellent, good luck!


----------



## Lussie

> One question though, following your method above there's no need to use the Supersize option at all to get the full 318 hours?


I super-sized it using WinMFS. (both on the S3 and the TivoHD) Sorry, I missed that step in the original post. I just edited it. 

Also, that Hitachi drive seems to be as quiet as the old 1TB Cinemastars that were replaced.

*BTW:* I initially tried to copy using USB 2.0. That took* almost 16 hours*, after that I decided to buy a USB 3.0 card for my laptop after making about 16 tries at this. The card is a _*Silverstone Tek Slim ExpressCard/34 USB 3.0 ExpressCard Adapter*_ (Amazon: *EC02*) Unfortunately, this USB 3.0 card was not recognized in the Linux ISO's. Nor does it work on any Linux virtual machines I was testing (VMware and Oracle VirtualBox) Seems to only work with Windows7.

Two things to keep in mind:

With the S3. JMFS does not seem to recognize the old S3 (_OLED display, Not a TivoHD_) 1 TB drive as a Tivo drive. It just says there are No Tivo Drives connected.
Manually removing the partition 16 (Apple_Free) with iBored is kind of a pain, but I think that's the secret sauce. 

Cheers, 
-Kevin


----------



## Lussie

S3-2501 said:


> I couldn't resist, and just ordered a WD20EURS to test Lussie's instructions out with. I'm pretty sure it's an advanced format drive like most new drives, but I like that I'll know it's as quiet as can be and comes with a 3-year warranty.
> 
> I've only got USB2, so it's likely to take a very long time to copy my current 1TB over, but I'll follow the steps exactly and report back with my results. The drive should get here mid-week, so if things go smoothly I _*may*_ be able to report back at the end of the week or over the weekend. *gulp*


S3-2501: *Please use caution with an AF drive*.

I'm not 100% sure that old hardware like the S3 can handle an AF drive even if it is in compatibility mode. Make sure it is returnable.

BTW: You can tell a non-AF drive if the *block size* is *512*.

Let us know your results.

Cheers, 
-Kevin


----------



## S3-2501

Lussie said:


> I super-sized it using WinMFS. (both on the S3 and the TivoHD) Sorry, I missed that step in the original post. I just edited it.


Thanks for the quick answer and update! I can't wait to give this a try!

Edit: Yeah, I know AF is a risk, but I haven't read any real-world reports here of other Tivo models having definitive issues with them and I really wanted to stick with the WD AV drive series. I ordered it from Amazon, so I should be able to return it if I need to, and if not I may just use it to upgrade a relative's TivoHD.

I still can't wait to see if it works though. It's been very annoying lately having to police who's recording what in HD to keep the drive from filling up too fast!


----------



## dlfl

S3-2501 said:


> I couldn't resist, and just ordered a WD20EURS to test Lussie's instructions out with. I'm pretty sure it's an advanced format drive like most new drives, but I like that I'll know it's as quiet as can be and comes with a 3-year warranty.
> 
> I've only got USB2, so it's likely to take a very long time to copy my current 1TB over, but I'll follow the steps exactly and report back with my results. The drive should get here mid-week, so if things go smoothly I _*may*_ be able to report back at the end of the week or over the weekend. *gulp*


Doesn't this drive require running wdidle to disable intellipark? And I don't think wdidle can run using a USB connection, correct?


----------



## S3-2501

dlfl said:


> Doesn't this drive require running wdidle to disable intellipark? And I don't think wdidle can run using a USB connection, correct?


It's correct that wdidle can only be run when the drive is connected to a motherboard. I've installed 3 WD AV drives in 3 different Tivos. I ran wdidle on the first one as a precaution. The other two were installed first and they passed the hard and soft reboot tests without any issue so I didn't bother running it later. I'll take the same approach with this drive and only bother with wdidle if the thing won't boot after competing the upgrade.

I mentioned that I only had USB2 since at the moment I plan to do the actual disk transfer by USB (more convenient for me) and I don't have any USB3 ports to transfer with as Lussie ultimately did. I do have access to a desktop PC motherboard with SATA connections if needed (or if I lose patience with the USB approach to the transfer ). Sorry for any confusion.


----------



## S3-2501

I'll post more details later, but right now I'm cautiously optimistic that I have successfully upgraded my S3 to 2TB using a WD20EURS and by following Lussie's instructions. The Tivo reports the full 318 HD hours and all old recordings and settings appear intact. More information to follow when I get a chance to sit down and compose a more thorough post (which I hope will be sometime over the next few days.)


----------



## hummingbird_206

S3-2501 said:


> I'll post more details later, but right now I'm cautiously optimistic that I have successfully upgraded my S3 to 2TB using a WD20EURS and by following Lussie's instructions. The Tivo reports the full 318 HD hours and all old recordings and settings appear intact. More information to follow when I get a chance to sit down and compose a more thorough post (which I hope will be sometime over the next few days.)


Great! I'm looking forward to the details. I think I'm going to give it a try this weekend.

Did you use an external USB drive or connect to the MB? Did you have to run wdidle? Did I mention I'm looking forward to the details?


----------



## S3-2501

hummingbird_206 said:


> Great! I'm looking forward to the details. I think I'm going to give it a try this weekend.
> 
> Did you use an external USB drive or connect to the MB? Did you have to run wdidle? Did I mention I'm looking forward to the details?


 I'm just starting to write it all out. I'll do my best to post it sometime on Saturday if at all possible.

To answer your two specific questions: I used a motherboard connection,via an eSATA adapter bracket, and since I went that route I did go ahead and run wdidle. Stay tuned.


----------



## dlfl

S3-2501 said:


> I'm just starting to write it all out. I'll do my best to post it sometime on Saturday if at all possible.
> 
> To answer your two specific questions: I used a motherboard connection,via an eSATA adapter bracket, and since I went that route I did go ahead and run wdidle. Stay tuned.


Another question of interest is the heat generation of the Hitachi drive. Could you please post your internal TiVo temperature? (And what it was before the upgrade, if you know it.)


----------



## hummingbird_206

S3-2501 said:


> I'm just starting to write it all out. I'll do my best to post it sometime on Saturday if at all possible.
> 
> To answer your two specific questions: I used a motherboard connection,via an eSATA adapter bracket, and since I went that route I did go ahead and run wdidle. Stay tuned.


Great, thank you!


----------



## hummingbird_206

dlfl said:


> Another question of interest is the heat generation of the Hitachi drive. Could you please post your internal TiVo temperature? (And what it was before the upgrade, if you know it.)


I think S3-2501 used the WD drive, not the Hitachi. Are you looking for temps on the WD drive or the Hitachi?


----------



## dlfl

dlfl said:


> Another question of interest is the heat generation of the Hitachi drive. Could you please post your internal TiVo temperature? (And what it was before the upgrade, if you know it.)





hummingbird_206 said:


> I think S3-2501 used the WD drive, not the Hitachi. Are you looking for temps on the WD drive or the Hitachi?


Oops! I should have asked Lussie that question. I know WD drives are OK on the heat issue.


----------



## hummingbird_206

S3-2501 said:


> I couldn't resist, and just ordered a WD20EURS to test Lussie's instructions out with. I'm pretty sure it's an advanced format drive like most new drives, but I like that I'll know it's as quiet as can be and comes with a 3-year warranty.
> 
> I've only got USB2, so it's likely to take a very long time to copy my current 1TB over, but I'll follow the steps exactly and report back with my results. The drive should get here mid-week, so if things go smoothly I _*may*_ be able to report back at the end of the week or over the weekend. *gulp*


I used Lussie's instructions and the WD20EURS and was pretty successful. I used the dual docking station, but plugged in to USB 2.0 since I don't have 3.0 on my computer.

It took 7.5 hours to copy from 1T Hitachi to 2T WD.

I did not run wdidle and S3 booted fine. Did a restart from the menu, and restarted with no problem.

However, ended up with 213 hours of HD recording time using the 2T drive. Old 1T drive had 157 hours. I did the supersize step. Not sure why I didn't get 318 hours? But overall I'm very happy. Preserved ~60 hours of HD shows and the WD drive is much quieter than the Hitachi drive was.

Thank you Lussie for those instructions. Awesome!
Thank you S3-2501 for listing the WD hard drive.


----------



## S3-2501

Ok, here are the upgrade details that I promised. This may be more detail than necessary, but I'd rather give too much detail than too little. Sorry if it's all a bit dry, but it's not exactly light reading to begin with.

The Tivo being upgraded is an original Series 3 with orange OLED front panel. My source drive was a WD10EVCS drive purchased from Weaknees that's been in use for a few years now (manufacture date 11/19/08.) My upgrade drive is a WD20EURS manufactured 6/20/12. The label clearly states that it is an advanced format drive and gives jumper and alignment instructions for Windows XP users that end in "All other OS configurations - drive is ready to use as is." No jumpers were placed on the drive. I'm running Windows 7 Professional 64-bit on my PC. I don't know if this is relevant, but the Tivo is used with OTA signals only, so there are no cable card or tuning adapter issues to worry about in this case.

Anxious to get things moving along, I decided to connect the drives directly to my computer's motherboard via an expansion slot bracket that converts two of the onboard SATA ports into two eSATA ports on the bracket. The 1TB source drive was placed in an enclosure with eSATA capability, and the 2TB drive was left bare but installed on the Tivo's mounting bracket and connected via a SATA to eSATA adapter.

Before starting the upgrade, I used a bootable USB stick with wdidle3 on it and ran wdidle3 /r to check the status of the new drive. It reported that the "timer is disabled" so no changes were made.

Mfscopy took almost exactly 4 hours 56 minutes. I was a bit concerned when the ETA timer went bananas near the end and started displaying some insanely long number for the time remaining. Thanks to clearly active HDD lights, I just let it go and thankfully it finished without issue.

The iBored step is where things got weird. I got to block 16 and found the "Apple Partition Map:AMP Entry" template fine, but when I selected BlockView->Make Writable I got an error that there was no disk found (similar to the error from back in the day when attempting to access a floppy drive with no disk in it.) The error reappeared when I clicked the various options presented on the error dialog, but after several tries it eventually did go away.

I selected Make Writable again, and when no error reappeared, I attempted to erase the block. *Despite the drive being an AF drive, iBored reported the block size as 512.* I took a picture of this with my camera, and only later when I looked at the picture did I notice a downward arrow to the right of the 512 indicating that I may have been able to select 4K as an option. So *when deleting block 16, the block size was set to the default 512*. I configured the rest of the block range dialog per the instructions and deleted block 16. For some reason I did have to re-start iBored to refresh the block view and confirm that block 16 was in fact deleted.

Now I had to change the "blocks in partition map" to 15 for all 15 remaining partitions. The problem was, I couldn't find the "blocks in partition map" field. After some tinkering, I realized that to see that field, you must be sure that for each block you first click the Template tab and then select "Apple Partition Map:AMP Entry" from the drop down box.

It's worth noting that I got the same disk not found error when I went to change the first "blocks in partition map" field, but once again after I got the error to go away I was able to retry without the error reoccurring. I then successfully changed the value for all 15 blocks.

One thing that threw me for a minute was that block 1 isn't the lowest value block on the drive. I accidentally hit CTRL+LeftArrow one too many times and inadvertently selected to view block 0, the values on which made it look like I had seriously messed things up. Thankfully I spotted my error before I did any damage and I proceeded to confirm that "blocks in partition map" was set to 15 for all 15 remaining blocks.

I opened WinMFS, did mfsadd and turned on supersize. I then saved the final mfsinfo data before installing the drive in the Tivo. If people think they can derive useful information from the final partition or zone information, let me know and I can post that separately.

An important note before I go any further: While I had the cover off the Tivo, I checked the power supply capacitors for signs of the dreaded bulging. I have never had any rebooting or other issues with this Tivo and the existing 1TB drive, but I did see that one capacitor was indeed bulging enough to be noticed. If I start having reboot issues in the near future, I would replace the capacitor or the entire power supply before I would have any confidence that the upgrade or the advanced format drive is at fault. Let's hope that's not necessary in the near future though!

OK, so the moment of truth came and the Tivo booted fine. I checked the System Information screen, confirmed that it reported all 318 hours of HD recording space, and then verified that my old recordings were preserved and played properly. I did notice a slight delay in the sound effects and button response when I first attempted trick play with live TV, but within seconds that stopped completely and everything seemed normal.

I let the TiVo run for about 12 hours, during which time I had it connect to Tivo, stream and download from the Video on Demand menu and even transferred a show from another Tivo. In my limited use during those 12 hours or so, the only thing that seemed even remotely amiss was that menus and the guide seemed to be slower by up to a few seconds.

After those 12 hours, I soft-rebooted the Tivo to make sure that the information from wdidle3 was accurate. It soft-rebooted without issue.

Since that time, the menus have gotten closer to normal speed, though as I type this there are still occasions when they seem a touch slower. Accessing the To Do list has the most noticeable delay. Otherwise, so far it's still happily recording away and I'm enjoying the new surplus of free space.

The System Information screen reports that the internal temperature is no warmer than it was with the old drive. The current temp reading is 46 degrees. As best as I can recall, the temperature with the old drive would approach 49 degrees at most.

In closing, I'd be remiss if I didn't give a *huge thanks to Lussie/Kevin* for figuring all this out! His instructions were remarkably well done and easy to follow. Everyone looking to max out the capacity on their original S3 Tivo owes him a debt of gratitude!:up:


----------



## unitron

S3-2501, go ahead and replace the caps on the +5V and +12V outputs and be done with it.

They'll be the ones with their + leads connected directly to the red or yellow wires (via the copper "lands" on the underside of the board) and their - leads connected directly to the black wires.

Did you use the WinMFS mfscopy or the MFS Live cd one?

What about swap partition size?


----------



## S3-2501

unitron said:


> S3-2501, go ahead and replace the caps on the +5V and +12V outputs and be done with it.


 Unfortunately, I don't have the knowledge or skillset to do the replacement myself, and I don't want to part with the Tivo right now to bring it to an electronics repair shop since it seems to be working fine at the moment. I agree though, if I were able to do it myself quickly, I would have done it right away.



> Did you use the WinMFS mfscopy or the MFS Live cd one?


 Everything was done using WinMFS and iBored, exactly as outlined in Lussie's instructions.



> What about swap partition size?


Following Lussie's instructions, I unchecked "Custom Linux Swap Size" and did check "No Optimized Partition Layout" before starting the copy. So whatever that does to the swap partition is what the Tivo has now.


----------



## S3-2501

hummingbird_206 said:


> I However, ended up with 213 hours of HD recording time using the 2T drive. Old 1T drive had 157 hours. I did the supersize step. Not sure why I didn't get 318 hours?


 When you were done removing block 16 and modifying the blocks in partition map fields with iBored, did you go back into WinMFS and select Tools -> MFSadd before you turned on supersize? MFSadd is what expands the usable space to the rest of the disk, so if you accidentally skipped that step that could be the cause of the discrepancy.


----------



## hummingbird_206

S3-2501 said:


> When you were done removing block 16 and modifying the blocks in partition map fields with iBored, did you go back into WinMFS and select Tools -> MFSadd before you turned on supersize? MFSadd is what expands the usable space to the rest of the disk, so if you accidentally skipped that step that could be the cause of the discrepancy.


Thanks for helping me try to figure it out. I did do the MFSadd and got the warning about TiVo no handling partitions great than 1 TB. Then after that I did the MFSSupersize.


----------



## lpwcomp

hummingbird_206 said:


> Thanks for helping me try to figure it out. I did do the MFSadd and got the warning about TiVo no handling partitions great than 1 TB. Then after that I did the MFSSupersize.


If I were you, I would pull the drive, re-attach it to the computer and post the partition map. If it is only reporting 213 hours, something is seriously wrong. This is an original S3 OLED, correct?


----------



## joesebastian

hummingbird_206 said:


> Thanks for helping me try to figure it out. I did do the MFSadd and got the warning about TiVo no handling partitions great than 1 TB. Then after that I did the MFSSupersize.


Thanks a ton to *Lussie/Kevin* for the original instructions and *S3:2501* for the tips on using ibored. Like Lussie said, working with iBored is key to the success of the drive. I used a WD20EARS that I had lying around. I had to use wdidle3 /D in dos to disable the timer that was set to 8 secs. The tivo settings show 318 HD hrs and 2777 SD hrs.

I want to add that the last part in WinMFS where you do the MFSAdd and MFS Supersize was a little quirky. When you choose Tools -> MFSAdd, it pops up a dialog warning that says something like "Tivo cannot handle partitions Greater than 1TB. Do you want to restrict the partitions to 1 TB??? <Yes> <No>. 
Here I chose NO. @Hummingbird: Do you remember what you chose? This could be the difference.
Also, when set MFSSupersize to ON. It popped up a message saying that it was already ON.

Here is my partition maps for reference.

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Expanded by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.6T)


----------



## hummingbird_206

lpwcomp said:


> If I were you, I would pull the drive, re-attach it to the computer and post the partition map. If it is only reporting 213 hours, something is seriously wrong. This is an original S3 OLED, correct?


Yes, an S3 with the OLED. Is the partition map something I find using WinMFS?



joesebastian said:


> I want to add that the last part in WinMFS where you do the MFSAdd and MFS Supersize was a little quirky. When you choose Tools -> MFSAdd, it pops up a dialog warning that says something like "Tivo cannot handle partitions Greater than 1TB. Do you want to restrict the partitions to 1 TB??? <Yes> <No>.
> Here I chose NO. @Hummingbird: Do you remember what you chose? This could be the difference.
> Also, when set MFSSupersize to ON. It popped up a message saying that it was already ON.


I remember the warning about the partitions, but I don't remember what I chose. Should I do that part again and make sure to choose NO?


----------



## S3-2501

hummingbird_206 said:


> Is the partition map something I find using WinMFS?


 Yes. Using WinMFS, the partition map is one of the things you can find by selecting View->MfsInfo


----------



## S3-2501

I know no one has asked for this yet, but I had the txt file handy, so here's the partition map from my S3's expanded and suupersized WD20EURS:

#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 2.0M)
15 MFS MFS Expanded by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.6T)


----------



## hummingbird_206

Hooked the drive back up to the computer and redid MFSadd and MFSSupersize. I now have 318 hours of HD recording time! I must have selected Yes instead of No the first time I did MFSadd. 

Thanks again to Lussie/Kevin for the original instructions. I'm so happy to get rid of my noisy 1T drive without losing my recordings! And thank you S3-2501, joesebastian, and lpwcomp for helping me get the full recording time!


----------



## S3-2501

hummingbird_206 said:


> I now have 318 hours of HD recording time!


 Glad you were able to go back and get the extra space without starting from scratch! It's good to know that the MFSadd step can be redone later if needed without messing things up. Thanks for letting us know how you got things solved!


----------



## tkoyn

I have a Tivo HD that originally had a 160gb drive and I upgraded to 1TB. I would like to upgrade again, to 2 TB. This unit was marketed as "Tivo HD", but says "Series3" under "Platform" in the System Information.

I am looking at Lussie's instructions in post 8737, one page back and see the recommendation for the Hitachi Drive. I see others talking about doing it with the WD20EURS instead.

Which drive should I buy? Which is least likely to have issues in performance in a Tivo (glitch free recording and playback)? Which is better for noise levels? Reliability in a Tivo that will accumulate long spin hours?

Thanks


----------



## dlfl

tkoyn said:


> I have a Tivo HD that originally had a 160gb drive and I upgraded to 1TB. I would like to upgrade again, to 2 TB. This unit was marketed as "Tivo HD", but says "Series3" under "Platform" in the System Information.
> 
> I am looking at Lussie's instructions in post 8737, one page back and see the recommendation for the Hitachi Drive. I see others talking about doing it with the WD20EURS instead.
> 
> Which drive should I buy? Which is least likely to have issues in performance in a Tivo (glitch free recording and playback)? Which is better for noise levels? Reliability in a Tivo that will accumulate long spin hours?
> 
> Thanks


I'm in the same situation except I am just planning for the future when my current WD 1 TB drive fails and I will probably just settle for another 1 TB replacement. As I've posted before I'm not comfortable with the current WD drives (such as the EURS series) because of the Advanced Format (AF) issue. Thus I'm intrigued by the Hitachi drive since it ISN'T AF. However I'm wondering about noise and heat production for the Hitachi. Those are two areas where the WD drives are known to be fine.


----------



## slowbiscuit

I installed an AF Seagate Green drive in a Tivo Premiere and had no problems, I doubt they would cause any in an S3.

I had to replace a just over 1 year old Hitachi 7K1000 1TB drive in an HD with a Samsung F3 this year because it started stuttering on playback to the point where the box would reboot on occasion. Funny thing was that offline scans found no bad sectors but the drive was slow to respond at certain areas. Could've been a bad drive, sure, but I wouldn't recommend them. Good thing they had a 3 year warranty and the RMA was easy.


----------



## S3-2501

slowbiscuit said:


> I installed an AF Seagate Green drive in a Tivo Premiere and had no problems, I doubt they would cause any in an S3.


I may be incorrect, but as I understand it the Premiere uses a Linux kernel that natively supports AF drives, while the Series 3/TivoHD units have an older kernel that does not. The long-term consequences of running an AF drive on a Series3/TivoHD are still unknown.

That said, my series 3 has now been running for just over a full week with its new AF WD20EURS without any reboots or other notable issues.


----------



## tkoyn

Lussie said:


> *STEP 3*
> 
> Start WinMFS again (*Right-Click "Run as Administrator"*)
> 
> Select Tools->MFSadd
> 
> You will get a warning about Tivo not handling partitions greater than 1 TB, but just ignore it (_hopefully, you have Tivo Software *version 11.0* on your tivo_)
> 
> _*Edited for SuperSize (Sorry I forgot that in the original post)*
> _
> *In Winmfs, click on Tools->MFSSuperSize->On*
> 
> That's it.
> 
> You now have a Tivo S3 with a 2TB Drive giving you *318 HD hours* or *2777 SD hours*.
> 
> Cheers,
> -Kevin
> 
> P.S.
> _I also upgraded my Tivo HD from an already upgraded 1 TB to 2 TB Drive (*same Hitachi as listed above*) using a similar method but replacing *Step 3* with *using JMFS* to expand it, but *WinMFS to supersize*. (Also didn't lose any shows and has been running for about 1 month now.)_


I was reading over these instructions and was wondering if someone could clarify how Step 3 is supposed to go for Tivo HD. Should it read as follows?



Lussie said:


> *STEP 3*
> 
> Start JMFS and expand it (more specifically how?)
> 
> Start WinMFS again (*Right-Click "Run as Administrator"*)
> 
> Select Tools->MFSSuperSize


Also, I have a few other qeustions?

Can I use Windows XP, or do I need Windows 7?

What version of JMFS was used and where do I get it? (I have the other tools WinMFS and iBored.)

Do I need to use something similar to wdidle for a Hitachi drive for this procedure? (wdidle is for Western Digital to change the idle time spin down parameter for that drive)

Still wondering if I should go Hitachi or WD?

Thanks


----------



## jon96cobra

tkoyn said:


> I was reading over these instructions and was wondering if someone could clarify how Step 3 is supposed to go for Tivo HD. Should it read as follows?
> 
> Also, I have a few other qeustions?
> 
> Can I use Windows XP, or do I need Windows 7?
> 
> What version of JMFS was used and where do I get it? (I have the other tools WinMFS and iBored.)
> 
> Do I need to use something similar to wdidle for a Hitachi drive for this procedure? (wdidle is for Western Digital to change the idle time spin down parameter for that drive)
> 
> Still wondering if I should go Hitachi or WD?
> 
> Thanks


JMFS download
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968


----------



## hummingbird_206

S3-2501 said:


> I may be incorrect, but as I understand it the Premiere uses a Linux kernel that natively supports AF drives, while the Series 3/TivoHD units have an older kernel that does not. The long-term consequences of running an AF drive on a Series3/TivoHD are still unknown.
> 
> That said, my series 3 has now been running for just over a full week with its new AF WD20EURS without any reboots or other notable issues.


I put the same WD drive in the S3 (with OLED screen) and mine is also running with no issues. I noted it upthread, but will mention again, I did not run wdidle on it.


----------



## tkoyn

Thanks for the answer on JMFS. Can anyone comment on my other remaining questions?



tkoyn said:


> I was reading over these instructions and was wondering if someone could clarify how Step 3 is supposed to go for Tivo HD. Should it read as follows?
> 
> 
> 
> Lussie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *STEP 3*
> 
> Start JMFS and expand it (*more specifically how?*)
> 
> Start WinMFS again (*Right-Click "Run as Administrator"*)
> 
> Select Tools->MFSSuperSize
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I have a few other qeustions?
> 
> Can I use Windows XP, or do I need Windows 7?
> 
> Do I need to use something similar to wdidle for a Hitachi drive for this procedure? (wdidle is for Western Digital to change the idle time spin down parameter for that drive)
> 
> Still wondering if I should go Hitachi or WD?
Click to expand...


----------



## S3-2501

tkoyn said:


> Also, I have a few other qeustions?
> 
> Can I use Windows XP, or do I need Windows 7?


 You can use XP, just right-click and select "Run as Administrator"



> Do I need to use something similar to wdidle for a Hitachi drive for this procedure?


 No.



> Still wondering if I should go Hitachi or WD?


 That's entirely up to you. The WD is quiet, energy efficient, may require running wdidle, runs cool and comes with a 3-year warranty, which if needed can be used entirely from the WD website, *but it's an AF drive* with possible unknown long-term downsides .

The Hitachi is a faster RPM which may run warmer, *is not an AF drive* and is made by Hitachi instead of WD (which only you can label as a pro or a con.)

The information posted here confirms that at least initially both drives will work in a Series 3 Tivo, so which you pick depends on how you personally weigh the differences between the two.


----------



## unitron

Of course WD recently bought Hitachi, about the time Seagate was swallowing Samsung whole as well, so buyer beware when it comes to what specs to expect from which model number from any of them.

(Apparently WD model numbers that were not AF before now are, depending on mfg date and which plant)


----------



## lnd1313

I do not know if this has already been asked. After getting to page 30 of 293 I quit reading and skipped to here.
I am looking for clarification on section 5 question 20 "Can I reinstall the original TiVo drive after an upgrade?

Yes. If at some point you want to reinstall the original TiVo drive, you can do so."
Yes and resume tivo operations from when the drive was disconnected? Or
Yes and start over as if it were a new drive?
Anybody see any problems that might be encountered in switching drives like this?


----------



## ThAbtO

lnd1313 said:


> I do not know if this has already been asked. After getting to page 30 of 293 I quit reading and skipped to here.
> I am looking for clarification on section 5 question 20 "Can I reinstall the original TiVo drive after an upgrade?
> 
> Yes. If at some point you want to reinstall the original TiVo drive, you can do so."
> Yes and resume tivo operations from when the drive was disconnected? Or
> Yes and start over as if it were a new drive?
> Anybody see any problems that might be encountered in switching drives like this?


Yes, basically you make a backup and if something goes wrong with the original, you have something to work from. You then restore to a new drive and its like picking up where the original was removed. You can re-use the original just as before it was removed from the Tivo.


----------



## unitron

lnd1313 said:


> I do not know if this has already been asked. After getting to page 30 of 293 I quit reading and skipped to here.
> I am looking for clarification on section 5 question 20 "Can I reinstall the original TiVo drive after an upgrade?
> 
> Yes. If at some point you want to reinstall the original TiVo drive, you can do so."
> Yes and resume tivo operations from when the drive was disconnected? Or
> Yes and start over as if it were a new drive?
> Anybody see any problems that might be encountered in switching drives like this?


You have a TCD652160?

(if not, what model #?)

You still have the original 160GB drive?

It has or has not been used for anything else?

The drive currently being used in the TiVo is what brand and model and is giving what if any trouble?

Do you have shows recorded on it you want to save?

If the TiVo is misbehaving in any way, have you checked the capacitors on the power supply board yet?

Whatever state the original drive was in when it was removed is the state in which it will be if reinstalled.

If you took it out before running Guided Setup for the first time, it'll start you in Guided Setup.

It has no memory of any info stored on any other drive which may or may not have been used in the TiVo after it was removed.

If you pulled it, and only paired cable cards after that, they aren't paired as far as the original drive is concerned.

We need to know what your actual problem is before we can be sure of giving you the proper answer on how to fix it.


----------



## lnd1313

It is a Tivo series 3 HD DMR is what it says on the front. If you need the actual model number I can look on the back.
It is not the original drive. When my expander failed some time ago I upgraded to a 1TB drive.
I do not know what you mean "used for anything else".
I believe the drive is a Hitachi brand drive, not sure on the model. Now that you mention it when I first turn on the tv the audio is choppy until I change the channel or change the menu. A symptom that I also experienced before the expander failed.
Yes I have shows that I want to save. That is why I was concerned as to whether the drive could be put back in and operations resumed.
I have not checked the system board although I did have a blown capacitor I replaced when I installed the TB drive. I wonder if that has happened again and is what is causing said audio problem.

If I do not remove the cable cards will anything need to be done with them? If I remember correctly I was able to install the new drive last time without having to do anything with the cable cards.


----------



## unitron

lnd1313 said:


> It is a Tivo series 3 HD DMR is what it says on the front. If you need the actual model number I can look on the back.
> It is not the original drive. When my expander failed some time ago I upgraded to a 1TB drive.
> I do not know what you mean "used for anything else".
> I believe the drive is a Hitachi brand drive, not sure on the model. Now that you mention it when I first turn on the tv the audio is choppy until I change the channel or change the menu. A symptom that I also experienced before the expander failed.
> Yes I have shows that I want to save. That is why I was concerned as to whether the drive could be put back in and operations resumed.
> I have not checked the system board although I did have a blown capacitor I replaced when I installed the TB drive. I wonder if that has happened again and is what is causing said audio problem.
> 
> If I do not remove the cable cards will anything need to be done with them? If I remember correctly I was able to install the new drive last time without having to do anything with the cable cards.


If it's this one

http://www.tivopedia.com/model-tivo-tivohd.php

which comes with a 160GB internal drive, then when you drill down into the menus to system information, the first 3 digits of the TiVo Service Number will be 652.

Or if it's the identical-looking HD XL version, which came with a 1TB internal drive

http://www.tivopedia.com/model-tivo-tivohd-xl.php

the TSN will start with 658.

If it's this one

http://www.tivopedia.com/model-tivo-series3.php

it's the original Series 3, and came with a 250GB internal drive, and the TSN will start with 648.

Used for anything else means you didn't take the original internal drive and stick it on a shelf, but put it in a computer to use the space on it, or put it in another TiVo.

If you had the TiVo all set up before that external went bad, then if you copied from the internal to the 1TB replacement, all of those settings (which cable company, cable card pairing, etc.) should have transferred and worked, and they'll still be on the original drive.

What won't be, of course, are recordings made since you put the 1TB drive in.

Another of the capacitors on the power supply could have started going bad, the S2 and S3 models are subject to "capacitor plague" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague ), as are all kinds of other electronics products, including computer motherboards and LCD monitors and TVs.

Any strange symptom in an S2 or S3 should make you suspect the caps, although that's not guaranteed to be the cause.

If the original drive has been sitting on the shelf, unused, you can put it back in and see if it makes a difference in how the TiVo behaves.

Remember, any shows recorded onto it during that time will be trapped on it, unless they aren't copy protected by the cable company and you can copy them off with the free version of the TiVo Desktop computer program.

Which you should probably be doing with what's on the 1TB drive in there now.

You'll need a large NTFS partition for TiVo Desktop to store shows on.

Check the Hitachi Global Storage website for downloadable diagnostic software, preferably in the form of an image you can burn as a bootable image to a cd-r, and you can use that to run the long test on the 1TB when you take it out.


----------



## elusivepeon

Just wanted to drop in and say that I followed the instructions here and was able to get my drive upgraded from a Samsung 750GB drive to a Western Digital 2TB drive (WD20EURS). I have a TiVoHD. I used JMFS to copy the drive (drive was dying) and about 3 days later I pulled the drive, used WinMFS to ADD and Supersize the drive. It now shows 318 hours of space on the TiVo properties page.

Thanks everyone!


----------



## dlfl

elusivepeon said:


> Just wanted to drop in and say that I followed the instructions here and was able to get my drive upgraded from a Samsung 750GB drive to a Western Digital 2TB drive (WD20EURS). I have a TiVoHD. I used JMFS to copy the drive (drive was dying) and about 3 days later I pulled the drive, used WinMFS to ADD and Supersize the drive. It now shows 318 hours of space on the TiVo properties page.
> 
> Thanks everyone!


And you didn't need to run wdidle on it? Or have your tried a warm reboot yet?


----------



## Lussie

Hi All. I just thought I'd let you know that it has now been a little more than two weeks since I have upgraded my S3 from the (previously upgraded) 1TB drive to the 2TB drive. 

 Everything has been running well. 
 Temperature is is 39C (Normal) - On the Hitachi 2TB Drive
 No reboots. 
 No Lost Guide Data.

Knocking on wood.



S3-2501 said:


> In closing, I'd be remiss if I didn't give a *huge thanks to Lussie/Kevin* for figuring all this out! His instructions were remarkably well done and easy to follow. Everyone looking to max out the capacity on their original S3 Tivo owes him a debt of gratitude!:up:





joesebastian said:


> Thanks a ton to *Lussie/Kevin* for the original instructions and *S3:2501* for the tips on using ibored. Like Lussie said, working with iBored is key to the success of the drive. I used a WD20EARS that I had lying around. I had to use wdidle3 /D in dos to disable the timer that was set to 8 secs. The tivo settings show 318 HD hrs and 2777 SD hrs.





hummingbird_206 said:


> I now have 318 hours of HD recording time!
> Thanks again to Lussie/Kevin for the original instructions. I'm so happy to get rid of my noisy 1T drive without losing my recordings! And thank you S3-2501, joesebastian, and lpwcomp for helping me get the full recording time!





elusivepeon said:


> Just wanted to drop in and say that I followed the instructions here and was able to get my drive upgraded from a Samsung 750GB drive to a Western Digital 2TB drive (WD20EURS). I have a TiVoHD. I used JMFS to copy the drive (drive was dying) and about 3 days later I pulled the drive, used WinMFS to ADD and Supersize the drive. It now shows 318 hours of space on the TiVo properties page.
> 
> Thanks everyone!


Y'all are very welcome. I'm glad that I was able to help everyone out!

Cheers, 
-Kevin


----------



## elusivepeon

Warm reboot works just fine. I did not have to run wdidle3.


----------



## unitron

elusivepeon said:


> Just wanted to drop in and say that I followed the instructions here and was able to get my drive upgraded from a Samsung 750GB drive to a Western Digital 2TB drive (WD20EURS). I have a TiVoHD. I used JMFS to copy the drive (drive was dying) and about 3 days later I pulled the drive, used WinMFS to ADD and Supersize the drive. It now shows 318 hours of space on the TiVo properties page.
> 
> Thanks everyone!


Did you do anything in particular to that WD drive as far as advanced format is concerned? Jumper? Special software?


----------



## jon96cobra

I was looking to expand my S3 to 2TB. Has anyone tried this drive yet?

Seagate ST2000DM001 Barracuda 7200RPM 2 TB SATA 6 GB/s NCQ 64 MB Cache 3.5-Inch Internal Bare Drive


----------



## haidawei

The original 250GB HDD in my Series3 w/ OLED died recently (before I motivated to make an image). As a last resort, I bought Instantcake online and made a new image on a brand new 1.5TB drive. All went well and I was able to go through guided setup and update the software to version 11. I now have 32 hours of HD recording capacity. Obviously, not taking advantage of the full drive. 

Now is where my problems begins. I took the 1.5TB drive and used WinMFS to get a truncated backup. I then restored to a new 2TB drive and I expanded the drive and then put MfsSuperSize to "on". I was then hoping to expand the Tivo capacity to at least use 1.26TB of the drive. My plan was then to expand again to another new 2TB drive in order to get the full potential of the 2TB drive. 

But, when I put the first 2TB drive into my Tivo, the screen is stuck on the "Welcome! Powering Up..." screen. When I power down the unit and put the 1.5TB drive in, the Tivo works but only with 32 hrs of capacity. 

How do I get the 2TB drive to work in the Tivo so that I can at least increase the capacity from the 32 hrs?

I have been working at this for 2 days now but can't get the expanded drive to work. Any help would be appreciated with this.


----------



## a68oliver

haidawei said:


> But, when I put the first 2TB drive into my Tivo, the screen is stuck on the "Welcome! Powering Up..." screen.


Is the drive a Western Digital? When I upgraded to a WD 1TB drive, it refused to boot even from a cold boot. I had to run wdidle3 on it before it would work.

It had previously been reported that this was a problem only with warm boots from the menu. But that was not true in my case.


----------



## haidawei

a68oliver said:


> Is the drive a Western Digital? When I upgraded to a WD 1TB drive, it refused to boot even from a cold boot. I had to run wdidle3 on it before it would work.


The drive is a Western Digital. But, I ran wdidle3 and disabled. But the 2TB drive still will not get past the "Welcome..." screen.

I upgraded my TivoHD what seems like a couple of years ago to a 1TB drive, ran wdidle3 and that worked without any problems.

But, my Series3 has been a bit more stubborn. Would starting with an original image on a 1.5TB drive be the problem? Don't see why it would matter, but maybe I am missing something?


----------



## unitron

haidawei said:


> The drive is a Western Digital. But, I ran wdidle3 and disabled. But the 2TB drive still will not get past the "Welcome..." screen.
> 
> I upgraded my TivoHD what seems like a couple of years ago to a 1TB drive, ran wdidle3 and that worked without any problems.
> 
> But, my Series3 has been a bit more stubborn. Would starting with an original image on a 1.5TB drive be the problem? Don't see why it would matter, but maybe I am missing something?


Start reading here

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9168233#post9168233


----------



## lnd1313

I have the original series 3 that came with a 250GB drive.
If I buy a 2TB drive from WeaKnees or dvr upgrade can I use WinMFS to transfer my current recordings from the 1TB that I am using now?


----------



## unitron

lnd1313 said:


> I have the original series 3 that came with a 250GB drive.
> If I buy a 2TB drive from WeaKnees or dvr upgrade can I use WinMFS to transfer my current recordings from the 1TB that I am using now?


The only reason to buy from them instead of just buying a blank hard drive is to get a drive that's been pre-imaged.

If it's been pre-imaged, there's nothing WinMFS can do for it except maybe screw it up.

Contact Weaknees, tell them what model TiVo you have and what drive you currently have in it and see if they'll give you a quote on letting you send them that drive to copy to the 2TB you'd be buying from them so that when they send you both drives your settings and recordings will already be on the 2TB drive.

The fact that you asked the question in the first place tells me that you don't know enough to do that yourself.

Don't be insulted, I know just enough to know that I don't know enough to be able to do it, either.


----------



## lnd1313

I was assuming that the information on the first page of this thread was correct and that there was a size limit of just over a 1TB for the series 3 TCD648250B Tivo.
No offense taken but if an off the shelf 2TB drive will work after following the B instructions on the first page of this thread I would like to try.


----------



## unitron

lnd1313 said:


> I was assuming that the information on the first page of this thread was correct and that there was a size limit of just over a 1TB for the series 3 TCD648250B Tivo.
> No offense taken but if an off the shelf 2TB drive will work after following the B instructions on the first page of this thread I would like to try.


The first page is informative, instructive, and somewhat out of date.

As I just said to someone else, start reading here

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9168233#post9168233


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Samsung green 2TB drive, $99 after coupon code:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...412-Index-_-InternalHardDrives-_-22152245-L0B


----------



## unitron

ThreeSoFar said:


> Samsung green 2TB drive, $99 after coupon code:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...412-Index-_-InternalHardDrives-_-22152245-L0B


In my present crowded circumstances that would be tempting if the warranty only being 1 year long didn't make me think maybe there's something they know that I don't.

I'm pretty sure Samsung's warranties were longer before Seagate borged them.


----------



## haidawei

unitron said:


> Start reading here
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9168233#post9168233


This is the exact thread that I started with since it seemed like the perfect fit for what I am trying to accomplish. My original image from Instant Cake only has 14 partitions instead of the 16 that they talk about in the thread that you reference above. But, I think that is because it is the original image and not an expanded one. That is why I thought that once I Supersized my 2TB drive, I would then see the 16 partitions and be on my way to getting the full capacity of the 2TB drive.

But, even after using the thread above as a reference, supersizing and running wdidle3, I am still getting stuck on the Welcome screen with the 2TB drive. I appreciate the continued help.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

unitron said:


> In my present crowded circumstances that would be tempting if the warranty only being 1 year long didn't make me think maybe there's something they know that I don't.
> 
> I'm pretty sure Samsung's warranties were longer before Seagate borged them.


They were three years, IIRC. I didn't realize Samsung had dumped its HDs on Seagate.

Damn. I used Samsungs years ago back when WD drives sucked. Loved them. Still spinning it one or two of my TiVos.


----------



## unitron

haidawei said:


> This is the exact thread that I started with since it seemed like the perfect fit for what I am trying to accomplish. My original image from Instant Cake only has 14 partitions instead of the 16 that they talk about in the thread that you reference above. But, I think that is because it is the original image and not an expanded one. That is why I thought that once I Supersized my 2TB drive, I would then see the 16 partitions and be on my way to getting the full capacity of the 2TB drive.
> 
> But, even after using the thread above as a reference, supersizing and running wdidle3, I am still getting stuck on the Welcome screen with the 2TB drive. I appreciate the continued help.


I wish you had a 1TB drive instead of a 1.5

Let me do some reading and give this some thought.

I've gone from a 1TB to a 2 on an HD and learned some tricks in the process, but I've never worked with a 1.5, so that's going to require some extra headscratching on my part.

If


----------



## Lussie

haidawei said:


> This is the exact thread that I started with since it seemed like the perfect fit for what I am trying to accomplish. My original image from Instant Cake only has 14 partitions instead of the 16 that they talk about in the thread that you reference above. But, I think that is because it is the original image and not an expanded one. That is why I thought that once I Supersized my 2TB drive, I would then see the 16 partitions and be on my way to getting the full capacity of the 2TB drive.
> 
> But, even after using the thread above as a reference, supersizing and running wdidle3, I am still getting stuck on the Welcome screen with the 2TB drive. I appreciate the continued help.


*haidawei*: Do you have an "AppleFree" Partition on that 2TB Drive?

Can you post the 2TB drive's partition map?

Cheers, 
-Kevin


----------



## haidawei

Lussie said:


> *haidawei*: Do you have an "AppleFree" Partition on that 2TB Drive?
> 
> Can you post the 2TB drive's partition map?


Here is the 2TB drive's partition map:

#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 2.0M)
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 2.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 128.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 2.0M)
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 2.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 128.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)
14 Apple_Free Extra [email protected] ( 1.6T)

Total SA SD Hours: 259	Total DTV SD Hours: 226 95 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-648	Tivo Model: TCD648250B

I know from the upgrade thread that I am supposed to use iBored and then remove the Apple_Free Extra partition. But that is when I am supposed to have 16 partitions. But, I am always getting 14 partitions. I guess that I am not expanding/Supersizing correctly.

I have removed the Apple_Free partition (in a previous attempt) and then renumbered the partitions as described in the instructions. But when I re-enter WinMFS and run MFSadd, I get an error message (I can't remember the exact message). I then turned MFSSuperSize on. But, when I went back to MFSInfo, I get another error message that says something like "This is not a Tivo drive!"


----------



## sbourgeo

ThreeSoFar said:


> Samsung green 2TB drive, $99 after coupon code:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...412-Index-_-InternalHardDrives-_-22152245-L0B


I bought four of these from newegg for my NAS about a month ago and they have been "Seagate-ized" and are not necessarily the same as the original Samsung HD204UI drives. They prominently list Seagate part number ST2000DL004 along with a small nod to the "HD204UI" model number. I have no idea of how well they work in a TiVo though...


----------



## unitron

haidawei said:


> Here is the 2TB drive's partition map:
> 
> #: type name length base ( size )
> 1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
> 2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 2.0M)
> 3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 2.0M)
> 4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 128.0M)
> 5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 2.0M)
> 6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 2.0M)
> 7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 128.0M)
> 8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
> 9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
> 12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)
> 14 Apple_Free Extra [email protected] ( 1.6T)
> 
> Total SA SD Hours: 259	Total DTV SD Hours: 226 95 % Free
> Software: 11.0k-01-2-648	Tivo Model: TCD648250B
> 
> I know from the upgrade thread that I am supposed to use iBored and then remove the Apple_Free Extra partition. But that is when I am supposed to have 16 partitions. But, I am always getting 14 partitions. I guess that I am not expanding/Supersizing correctly.
> 
> I have removed the Apple_Free partition (in a previous attempt) and then renumbered the partitions as described in the instructions. But when I re-enter WinMFS and run MFSadd, I get an error message (I can't remember the exact message). I then turned MFSSuperSize on. But, when I went back to MFSInfo, I get another error message that says something like "This is not a Tivo drive!"


If you used WinMFS to get that partition map, then it's currently recognizing the drive as a TiVo drive, so click on mfsadd and see what it will let you get away with.


----------



## haidawei

unitron said:


> If you used WinMFS to get that partition map, then it's currently recognizing the drive as a TiVo drive, so click on mfsadd and see what it will let you get away with.


I tried mfsadd again and now it seemed to work. I must have clicked something wrong the last time. Anyway, here is the new, updated partition map:

#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 2.0M)
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 2.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 128.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 2.0M)
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 2.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 128.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.6T)

Total SA SD Hours: 2083	Total DTV SD Hours: 1818 99 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-648	Tivo Model: TCD648250B

I am now up to 15 partitions, but I now do not have an Apple_Free partition.


----------



## unitron

haidawei said:


> I tried mfsadd again and now it seemed to work. I must have clicked something wrong the last time. Anyway, here is the new, updated partition map:
> 
> #: type name length base ( size )
> 1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
> 2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 2.0M)
> 3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 2.0M)
> 4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 128.0M)
> 5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 2.0M)
> 6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 2.0M)
> 7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 128.0M)
> 8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
> 9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
> 12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)
> 14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
> 15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.6T)
> 
> Total SA SD Hours: 2083	Total DTV SD Hours: 1818 99 % Free
> Software: 11.0k-01-2-648	Tivo Model: TCD648250B
> 
> I am now up to 15 partitions, but I now do not have an Apple_Free partition.


Looks like the entire 2TB drive is used.

Take the number on the left

[email protected]

and add it to the number on the right and see how that compares with the LBA number on the label on the top of the drive.

Then try the drive in the TiVo.

If it doesn't work, maybe you forgot to take care of this part first

"hopefully, you have Tivo Software version 11.0 on your tivo"

since you started with whatever version is on IC and if you mentioned connecting to TiVo, Inc's servers to update, I missed it.

If that's the case, go back and do what you did, but when you get IC on the 1.5, boot it in the TiVo and let it update.

(then for safety's sake, use mfsinfo to see which partitions you're booting from. then use bootfix or whatever Spike called it, option 1 sets it to boot from 2,3, and 4, and option 2 sets it to boot from 5,6, and 7. You want whichever changes what you have, then put it back in the TiVo and let it update again, that way you have the latest on both main and alternate boot partition sets)

Once you've got the 1.5 squared away with all the right info and settings on it, go back to copying it to the 2


----------



## lnd1313

Can someone post a list or a link to a list of 2TB drives that are compatible with a series 3 TCD648250B Tivo? Or what requirements a compatible drive would need to possess?


----------



## unitron

lnd1313 said:


> Can someone post a list or a link to a list of 2TB drives that are compatible with a series 3 TCD648250B Tivo? Or what requirements a compatible drive would need to possess?


Considering that people are just now figuring out how to use 2TB drives in original S3s, probably not.

Even TiVo, Inc., themselves might not be able to answer that second question adequately without extensive testing and experimentation.

In other words, you're going to be a pioneer.

You know, the guy who gets the arrows in the back.


----------



## haidawei

unitron said:


> Looks like the entire 2TB drive is used.


I tried the 2TB drive again and it worked. The Tivo booted up and it now shows 318 hours of HD. I must have done something wrong with MFSadd the first time.

So, here is the synopsis:

1. Instant Cake used to get original image
2. Image put onto a 1.5TB drive
3. Upgraded to latest software version (11.0.k)
4. Used WinMFS for truncated backup
5. Restored the backup to the 2TB drive
6. Ran MFSadd and SuperSized the drive

Hopefully things will be stable. Thanks to all that helped.


----------



## unitron

haidawei said:


> I tried the 2TB drive again and it worked. The Tivo booted up and it now shows 318 hours of HD. I must have done something wrong with MFSadd the first time.
> 
> So, here is the synopsis:
> 
> 1. Instant Cake used to get original image
> 2. Image put onto a 1.5TB drive
> 3. Upgraded to latest software version (11.0.k)
> 4. Used WinMFS for truncated backup
> 5. Restored the backup to the 2TB drive
> 6. Ran MFSadd and SuperSized the drive
> 
> Hopefully things will be stable. Thanks to all that helped.


Congrats, now tell us again the exact brand, model, and mfg. date of the 1.5 and the 2TB drives since any of that's probably a page or 2 back and we should think of future searchers.


----------



## Lussie

haidawei said:


> I tried the 2TB drive again and it worked. The Tivo booted up and it now shows 318 hours of HD.


*haidawei * That's Awesome! :up:

Congratulations.

So it seems like Apple Free partition is the culprit.

Anyone try a 2.5GB or 3GB drive yet?

Cheers, 
-Kevin


----------



## haidawei

unitron said:


> Congrats, now tell us again the exact brand, model, and mfg. date of the 1.5 and the 2TB drives since any of that's probably a page or 2 back and we should think of future searchers.


Western Digital Caviar Green WD15EARS - November 12, 2010

Western Digital Caviar Green WD20EARX - May 18, 2012


----------



## unitron

haidawei said:


> Western Digital Caviar Green WD15EARS - November 12, 2010
> 
> Western Digital Caviar Green WD20EARX - May 18, 2012


Thanks.

Does that EARS say anything on the label about advanced format?

(I'm sure the EARX does)


----------



## haidawei

unitron said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Does that EARS say anything on the label about advanced format?
> 
> (I'm sure the EARX does)


Both drives say that they are an Advanced Format Drive.


----------



## Soapm

The next test is filling up the drive. Good luck...


----------



## Sam Ray

bkdtv said:


> This FAQ is divided into four sections: (I) Summary of Expansion Options, (II) Introduction, (III) Officially Supported External Drives, (IV) Unsupported External Drives, and (V) Internal Drive Upgrades.


I am new here and I have much to learn.

We have a Premiere (TCD746320) that is nearly two years old. Apparently the hard drive is bad. We have already purchased a Premiere XL4. We want to repair the old Tivo.

I have read the first 20 pages of this discussion. I see very little relevant to internal drives; nothing useful for me. Will I be rewarded if I spend another two hours (probably more) trying to find something in this discussion? I assume not.

So please tell me this much. Did I misunderstand what is meant by "Internal Drive Upgrades"? Perhaps my misunderstanding is the assumption that the discussion following the "FAQ" is also relevant to "Internal Drive Upgrades".


----------



## unitron

Sam Ray said:


> I am new here and I have much to learn.
> 
> We have a Premiere (TCD746320) that is nearly two years old. Apparently the hard drive is bad. We have already purchased a Premiere XL4. We want to repair the old Tivo.
> 
> I have read the first 20 pages of this discussion. I see very little relevant to internal drives; nothing useful for me. Will I be rewarded if I spend another two hours (probably more) trying to find something in this discussion? I assume not.
> 
> So please tell me this much. Did I misunderstand what is meant by "Internal Drive Upgrades"? Perhaps my misunderstanding is the assumption that the discussion following the "FAQ" is also relevant to "Internal Drive Upgrades".


An internal drive upgrade is where you replace the hard drive that came inside the TiVo when it was new, generally with a drive with greater capacity that can hold more recordings.

This became harder, but not impossible, to do when the Series 4 platform (the Premiere and what has followed) came out because all of the software developed for users to do stuff with their TiVos that TiVo hadn't really planned on, well that software was modified some as the Series 2s replaced the Series1s and the S3s the S2s, but the way things were set up on the original hard drives remained the same enough for compatibility.

But they changed something in the S4s, and the previous "hacker" software (which really isn't hacker software) no longer works and might screw up an S4 drive, so you have a fair amount to learn about what not to do before you take your old Premiere apart and hook the hard drive to a computer.

Were you using that Premiere with an external drive attached as well?

Why do you think the hard drive is the problem?

What, exactly, are the TiVo's symptoms?

And was it hooked up via HDMI cable?


----------



## steve614

Sam Ray said:


> I am new here and I have much to learn.
> 
> We have a Premiere (TCD746320) that is nearly two years old. Apparently the hard drive is bad. We have already purchased a Premiere XL4. We want to repair the old Tivo.


Yeah, this is the Series 3 section of the forum, and the Premiere is based on a different platform, so this thread doesn't really help your situation.

Does that Premiere have a product lifetime subscription?
If so, then you need to get hold of another hard drive with the Premiere software on it.

Buy an unsubscribed Premiere from <website of your choice> and transplant the hard drive from it to your Premiere.

You'll have to perform a clear and delete everything upon initial boot in order to make the transplanted hard drive work properly.


----------



## Sam Ray

unitron said:


> Were you using that Premiere with an external drive attached as well?
> 
> Why do you think the hard drive is the problem?
> 
> What, exactly, are the TiVo's symptoms?
> 
> And was it hooked up via HDMI cable?


No external drive or anything extra like that.

The Tivo customer support (more than one person) says it is likely the hard drive. My impression was that it is not, but Tivo people said it probably is.

It pauses frequently, doing anything. If we are in the menus, then it will pause for about three seconds, then work for three seconds, then pause.

I also did the hard drive test, where we do the pause and then 54 at startup. The SMART test failed three of the four tests at the beginning; it only passed the initialization. I tried to run the overnight test (and other tests) and it was unable to do that (those).



steve614 said:


> Yeah, this is the Series 3 section of the forum, and the Premiere is based on a different platform, so this thread doesn't really help your situation.
> 
> Does that Premiere have a product lifetime subscription?
> If so, then you need to get hold of another hard drive with the Premiere software on it.
> 
> Buy an unsubscribed Premiere from <website of your choice> and transplant the hard drive from it to your Premiere.
> 
> You'll have to perform a clear and delete everything upon initial boot in order to make the transplanted hard drive work properly.


Sorry about being in the Series 3 forum. I will try to keep my further replies in this forum brief.

No lifetime subscription.

We could return the device to Tivo for repair but apparently it will cost as much as buying a new one and if we buy a new one we probably (such as if we buy it from Amazon) do not need to pay for shipping.


----------



## unitron

Sam Ray said:


> No external drive or anything extra like that.
> 
> The Tivo customer support (more than one person) says it is likely the hard drive. My impression was that it is not, but Tivo people said it probably is.
> 
> It pauses frequently, doing anything. If we are in the menus, then it will pause for about three seconds, then work for three seconds, then pause.
> 
> I also did the hard drive test, where we do the pause and then 54 at startup. The SMART test failed three of the four tests at the beginning; it only passed the initialization. I tried to run the overnight test (and other tests) and it was unable to do that (those).
> 
> Sorry about being in the Series 3 forum. I will try to keep my further replies in this forum brief.
> 
> No lifetime subscription.
> 
> We could return the device to Tivo for repair but apparently it will cost as much as buying a new one and if we buy a new one we probably (such as if we buy it from Amazon) do not need to pay for shipping.


If it has trouble with KickStart 54, it's probably the drive, but what you could do is shut down the TiVo, open it up, take out the drive (you can probably leave it connected to the drive bracket if it's like older model TiVos), take the model number and search for it on WD's website, then look to the left on the results page, where it says download, click there, and download an image for a bootable cd with the WD diagnostic software on it, burn it as an image to a cd-r, then shut down the computer.

Disconnect the hard drive inside the computer, turn it back on and go into the BIOS setup and make sure the computer is set to boot from a cd before trying to boot from a hard drive.

Also make sure you aren't using a GigaByte brand motherboard.

Try booting with the WD cd you just made to make sure it will, then shut down, connect the TiVo drive in place of the computer's drive and boot with the WD cd, then run first the short test, then the long test on the drive.

If it finds a few bad sectors it might be able to re-assign those numbers to some unused sectors and save the drive, although I'd consider it to be on borrowed time from that point on.


----------



## lrhorer

steve614 said:


> Does that Premiere have a product lifetime subscription?
> If so, then you need to get hold of another hard drive with the Premiere software on it.


I would recommend trying ddrescue, instead.



steve614 said:


> You'll have to perform a clear and delete everything upon initial boot in order to make the transplanted hard drive work properly.


That is one reason why I would recommend ddrescue.


----------



## danmcd

A power flicker scragged my 1-month-old replacement 1TB HD for my TiVo HD. And now that model is out of stock. I was looking at this: http://http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148912 and it looks promising.

Any advice or other cavaets?


----------



## unitron

danmcd said:


> A power flicker scragged my 1-month-old replacement 1TB HD for my TiVo HD. And now that model is out of stock. I was looking at this: http://http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148912 and it looks promising.
> 
> Any advice or other cavaets?


Here's a link to what you're talking about that should actually work

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148912

I don't know anything about that drive, good or bad.

As for the drive you're looking to replace, how do you know it's gone bad and what brand and model is it?


----------



## lpwcomp

danmcd said:


> A power flicker scragged my 1-month-old replacement 1TB HD for my TiVo HD. And now that model is out of stock. I was looking at this: http://http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148912 and it looks promising.
> 
> Any advice or other cavaets?


Yes. This is the main reason to have your TiVo on a UPS, so you should get one of those too.


----------



## danmcd

I replaced a Seagate Pipeline ST31000533CS.

Given the Olympics are this week, I may need to drive to Micro Center instead of waiting/paying for Newegg to deliver. I know to avoid modern WD "Green" drives. I was thinking of picking up a Deskstar, but I'm curious if the 4k sectors on modern ones will be an issue or not.

I appreciate the quick answers. (I'd like to be back up and running with UPS and a new drive before the Women's Soccer finals for a happy family viewing.)


----------



## WhiskeyTango

I upgraded my THD a few years back with a 1TB drive, which died last summer. It was still under warranty so it was replaced but that drive is now failing. I bought a WD Green 1TB drive. My question is, can I make a backup of the current failing drive to image the new one or do I have to use the backup I made from the original drive?


----------



## danmcd

WhiskeyTango said:


> My question is, can I make a backup of the current failing drive to image the new one or do I have to use the backup I made from the original drive?


I tried this with seeming success when I upgraded my own a month ago. It *SEEMED* to work, but then I had this power flicker so I don't have a reliable set of data to go on.


----------



## danmcd

unitron said:


> As for the drive you're looking to replace, how do you know it's gone bad and what brand and model is it?


I mentioned the model, but forgot to mention that I'm seeing old programs pause/flicker/etc., AND that when I ran the kickstart-54 SMART tests I got "Error 7".


----------



## Teeps

WhiskeyTango said:


> I bought a WD Green 1TB drive.
> 
> My question is, can I make a backup of the current failing drive to image the new one or do I have to use the backup I made from the original drive?


I don't know about making a back up. But I have, successfully, done the *dd copy operation on several TiVo drives.
There are other solutions for copying data that may be easier.

Note: I use dd copy because that is what I used, back in the day, the first time. And, I am comfortable with doing that procedure to bit copy the raw data from one drive to another.
And, it's worked every time.

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dd_(Unix)


----------



## unitron

danmcd said:


> I replaced a Seagate Pipeline ST31000533CS.
> 
> Given the Olympics are this week, I may need to drive to Micro Center instead of waiting/paying for Newegg to deliver. I know to avoid modern WD "Green" drives. I was thinking of picking up a Deskstar, but I'm curious if the 4k sectors on modern ones will be an issue or not.
> 
> I appreciate the quick answers. (I'd like to be back up and running with UPS and a new drive before the Women's Soccer finals for a happy family viewing.)


As long as you run wdidle3 to disable Intellipark, a WD Green might be a good choice.

I'm using a WD20EADS in an S3 HD.

There have been reports of sucess with the WD20EARS.

I think people have used the WD20EURS, but I can't swear to it.

You may have to dig through the jmfs Premiere thread and the jmfs on an S3 HD thread to see who's had success with which drives.


----------



## edtude

unitron said:


> As long as you run wdidle3 to disable Intellipark, a WD Green might be a good choice.
> 
> I'm using a WD20EADS in an S3 HD.
> 
> There have been reports of sucess with the WD20EARS.
> 
> I think people have used the WD20EURS, but I can't swear to it.
> 
> You may have to dig through the jmfs Premiere thread and the jmfs on an S3 HD thread to see who's had success with which drives.


I have successfully used the WD20EURS in my Series 3. Been running for several weeks now with no glitches at all


----------



## unitron

edtude said:


> I have successfully used the WD20EURS in my Series 3. Been running for several weeks now with no glitches at all


648, 652, or 658?

Using all 2TB?


----------



## sbourgeo

edtude said:


> I have successfully used the WD20EURS in my Series 3. Been running for several weeks now with no glitches at all


Ditto for me. I've had a WD20EURS running in my TiVo HD (TCD652160) for a couple months now with no issues (link). I have not messed around with any of the 4k alignment techniques though.


----------



## dlfl

Have any of you guys running Advanced Format drives (e.g., WD20EURS) reached the point where your drive is full and starts deleting shows? I suspect you have to run past that point before you really know if your drive is a "success" story.


----------



## antalo

drey said:


> You guys both are right. It is indeed wdidle3.exe that disables IntelliPark. Once disabled, I can successfully reboot both HD and S3.
> 
> The only issue with wdidle3.exe is that it needs to run from DOS. Essentially, the steps are:
> 
> - Create bootable CD-ROM (or floppy drive, if you have it) with wdidle3.exe on it
> 
> - Connect "bad" WD drive to SATA. Ensure it is not in RAID or AHCI, but rather in EIDE Compatible mode. This is needed so older DOS can detect the drive.
> 
> - Boot from from above CD/floppy and run "wdidle3 /D" to disable IntelliPark. The message should say that it has been disabled.
> 
> - Remove the drive, load TiVo image and test. You should no longer have "soft-boot" problem.
> 
> Below is the link to bootable CD that I created with wdidle3.exe on it. When at DOS prompt, change to drive letter R: and access wdidle3.exe from there.
> 
> http://tiny.cc/o7Lvr
> 
> -


I'm trying to download this file, but the URL must be changed. I got a similar situation. Using win XP home, SP3 and WD15EARS, I managed to get XP to recognize 1.5TB. Have the jumper on 5 & 6 . Winmsf also recognised the 1.5 TB capacity. Copied over a 240xx.tbk file on it and when asked to expend the drive I said yes. Put the drive into the Tivo, had to go thru setup, download etc, and it said had hardware problems. In the system info did not have the Tivo numbers and had only 90 hrs capacity. I did a "clear and erase everything, went thru he entire setup thing, and still it only says 90 hrs. It did come up with the TIVO #s. I was hoping it will adjust the hrs available, but after 3 server downloads, it didn't change. 
I was hoping running that file on the drive maybe would help. I have not yet recorded on it. Thanks for your help.

P.S. A couple of days passed since the above posting. I got some bad news. The drive keeps on rebooting. every 5 to 10 min it reboots. I also have the same problem with a Seagate ST31500541AS drive. It went into a 540 series S2 Tivo. These are 2 different drives and have the same problem. I sure could use some great help. I get my weeping towel


----------



## unitron

antalo said:


> I'm trying to download this file, but the URL must be changed. I got a similar situation. Using win XP home, SP3 and WD15EARS, I managed to get XP to recognize 1.5TB. Have the jumper on 5 & 6 . Winmsf also recognised the 1.5 TB capacity. Copied over a 240xx.tbk file on it and when asked to expend the drive I said yes. Put the drive into the Tivo, had to go thru setup, download etc, and it said had hardware problems. In the system info did not have the Tivo numbers and had only 90 hrs capacity. I did a "clear and erase everything, went thru he entire setup thing, and still it only says 90 hrs. It did come up with the TIVO #s. I was hoping it will adjust the hrs available, but after 3 server downloads, it didn't change.
> I was hoping running that file on the drive maybe would help. I have not yet recorded on it. Thanks for your help.


Don't know about your other problems but try this link for a bootable cd image that you have to burn as an image.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/49887720/wdidle3.iso

Which version of the TiVo software does the system info page say you have?

(WinMFS may also give that info)


----------



## edtude

unitron said:


> 648, 652, or 658?
> 
> Using all 2TB?


652 yes using all 2TB, of course I have not filled it up yet.


----------



## unitron

edtude said:


> 652 yes using all 2TB, of course I have not filled it up yet.


jmfs?


----------



## S3-2501

This weekend will mark one month since I upgraded my OLED Series 3 with a WD20EURS. Everything is still functioning as it's supposed to and there have been no reboot issues. As far as the drive filling up, as I type this it has 469 suggestions recorded and is removing shows from the recently deleted folder regularly. I'm guessing that the whole of the drive has been used by now, but mostly for suggestions, which of course are recorded and deleted as the Tivo software sees fit.

There is one negative thing I've noticed consistently that I would guess is due to the advanced format drive. Fairly often the user interface (loading menus and lists) will be more sluggish than it was with my old 1TB non-AF drive. Sometimes it's a little slower, sometimes a lot slower and sometimes it seems about normal. I've experienced at least one instance where it took more than 10 seconds for the Now Playing List to fully update/populate.

Strangely, even the response of the OLED display seems a bit more sluggish when compared to how it was with the old 1TB non-AF drive. At times it can take several seconds (5-10 is a rough estimate of the slowest I've seen) for the title of a show to appear on the OLED display once a scheduled recording begins. This is just a delay with the display though, as all recordings seem to start and end on time.

At this point I wouldn't advise against using an advanced format drive, but based on my experience so far, people who would be bothered by a more sluggish user interface may wish to avoid them for that reason.


----------



## edtude

unitron said:


> jmfs?


JMFS to copy the original drive got me 288 Hrs of HD
WinMFS to Supersize and gain the extra 30 Hours of HD
WDidle3 to get me out of stuck mode.
Been running now for over a month with no issues and has had several reboots due to power failure.

I really need to get a new UPS for that set.


----------



## antalo

unitron said:


> Don't know about your other problems but try this link for a bootable cd image that you have to burn as an image.
> 
> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/49887720/wdidle3.iso
> 
> Which version of the TiVo software does the system info page say you have?
> 
> (WinMFS may also give that info)


Thanks for your reply. I figured out my problem. RUSTY  It'been a long time I replaced a hard dr. I did so me reading heree in the forum and I found that wdidle3 file on the WD website. I forgot to do the "MFSadd" thing and it expended my dry all the way. The Tivo now says I have upto 1949 hrs. Not bad. I think I re-did the drive at least 4 X. But finally I got it right.

The software version is 9.3.2b-01-2-140 It's a 240 series S2 box.

I'm not in HD recording yet, and I can't afford all that $$ Tivo want to collect.

I just orderd a WD20EARX drive from Newegg, $100.- shipped. I posted it elsewhere in the forum. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136891 $20 off w/ promo code EMCNBNC37, end 8/13 I looked it up again.


----------



## unitron

antalo said:


> Thanks for your reply. I figured out my problem. RUSTY  It'been a long time I replaced a hard dr. I did so me reading heree in the forum and I found that wdidle3 file on the WD website. I forgot to do the "MFSadd" thing and it expended my dry all the way. The Tivo now says I have upto 1949 hrs. Not bad. I think I re-did the drive at least 4 X. But finally I got it right.
> 
> The software version is 9.3.2b-01-2-140 It's a 240 series S2 box.
> 
> I'm not in HD recording yet, and I can't afford all that $$ Tivo want to collect.
> 
> I just orderd a WD20EARX drive from Newegg, $100.- shipped. I posted it elsewhere in the forum. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136891 $20 off w/ promo code EMCNBNC37, end 8/13 I looked it up again.


You're using a 1.5TB drive in an S2?

Successfully?

And you're planning to use a 2TB in it?

Which adapter are you using?


----------



## antalo

unitron said:


> You're using a 1.5TB drive in an S2?
> 
> Successfully?
> 
> And you're planning to use a 2TB in it?
> 
> Which adapter are you using?


Sofar so good !  I haven't tried it out yet, but it is up and running. I'm getting a OTA digital to analog converter. The adapter I'm using is an "old" one. ot them (2) a long time ago. The only markings I see is WLXKJ--8638 (the 8 could be a "B") above the SATA connector. It also has a jumper in he corner opposite the power connector. 
The major problem is getting the pc to recognize the drive. I got it connected to the IDE 2 master cable. I don't know how many if the drive times I turned on the pc and it came up with all kinds of different drive IDs. I think it may help if the drive had some DOS or Windows formatting on it. With this drive I've been messing with for a long time, so I'm not sure what condition it was in. Finally it came up with the correct model #. I also use winmsf 1.3f I believe. The latest version. Several times it came up with 90GB, 100GB . It also depended on the jumper setting. First I has in on 7 & 8, than OFF, and after some reading now it is on 5 & 6. Also WinMSF had a little problem identifying the drive, but when DOS or Windows recognized it, it also did. I also forgot the do a "MFS add". Now I don't know how Tivo came up with up to 1949 hrs on a 1.5TB drive. WinMFS also asks when .expending if I want to limit it to 1 TB. I said NO and it added the entire capacity. Supposedly it can handle up to 2TB drives.

Don't tell me I did something unusual ! My Linux knowledge is zilch, so I depend mostly on WinMfs. I need to figure out how I can add FTA receiver codes to the TIvo so it can control them. I know there is a file, but I'm too chicken to try it, afraid to mess up the Tivo programming.

I also managed to setup a Seagate 1.5 TB drive for a 540 series S2 Tivo. Had a real hard time to get DOS/Win to recognize it. This drive was also messed with before. The best it did for a long time is 1 TB capacity with a different model #. I don't know what I finally did to get the correct model recognized. After that it was a piece of cake. 
Maybe someone should write a how-to about this. I'm too old and forgetful to do it. If you think it is worth it.


----------



## unitron

antalo said:


> Sofar so good !  I haven't tried it out yet, but it is up and running. I'm getting a OTA digital to analog converter. The adapter I'm using is an "old" one. ot them (2) a long time ago. The only markings I see is WLXKJ--8638 (the 8 could be a "B") above the SATA connector. It also has a jumper in he corner opposite the power connector.
> The major problem is getting the pc to recognize the drive. I got it connected to the IDE 2 master cable. I don't know how many if the drive times I turned on the pc and it came up with all kinds of different drive IDs. I think it may help if the drive had some DOS or Windows formatting on it. With this drive I've been messing with for a long time, so I'm not sure what condition it was in. Finally it came up with the correct model #. I also use winmsf 1.3f I believe. The latest version. Several times it came up with 90GB, 100GB . It also depended on the jumper setting. First I has in on 7 & 8, than OFF, and after some reading now it is on 5 & 6. Also WinMSF had a little problem identifying the drive, but when DOS or Windows recognized it, it also did. I also forgot the do a "MFS add". Now I don't know how Tivo came up with up to 1949 hrs on a 1.5TB drive. WinMFS also asks when .expending if I want to limit it to 1 TB. I said NO and it added the entire capacity. Supposedly it can handle up to 2TB drives.
> 
> Don't tell me I did something unusual ! My Linux knowledge is zilch, so I depend mostly on WinMfs. I need to figure out how I can add FTA receiver codes to the TIvo so it can control them. I know there is a file, but I'm too chicken to try it, afraid to mess up the Tivo programming.
> 
> I also managed to setup a Seagate 1.5 TB drive for a 540 series S2 Tivo. Had a real hard time to get DOS/Win to recognize it. This drive was also messed with before. The best it did for a long time is 1 TB capacity with a different model #. I don't know what I finally did to get the correct model recognized. After that it was a piece of cake.
> Maybe someone should write a how-to about this. I'm too old and forgetful to do it. If you think it is worth it.


Latest MFS Live is 1.4

Those SATA/IDE adapters of yours are the standard JMicron chipset based adapters you get from wowparts and elsewhere.

Are you connecting the drives to SATA ports on the computer motherboard or using the adapters to connect them to the IDE controller(s)?

It's been previously thought that Series 2 TiVos were limited to drives of 1.2 base10 Terabytes (or 1 base2 Terabyte, which is something like a TiBiByte or something silly looking).

Generally if one doesn't get the drive's proper brand/model number during the computer boot process or CMOS screen, one gets a jumbled version of it, where characters are missing or shifted by one letter or number or something like that and this either means the motherboard or the drive is going bad, or you don't have that data cable completely properly seated at both ends. Adding a SATA/IDE adapter makes that even more likely.

Or it means the IDE/PATA cable is going bad. Those newer 80 conductor ones won't put up with as much flexing and plugging and unplugging as the older ones.


----------



## hummingbird_206

S3-2501 said:


> This weekend will mark one month since I upgraded my OLED Series 3 with a WD20EURS. Everything is still functioning as it's supposed to and there have been no reboot issues. As far as the drive filling up, as I type this it has 469 suggestions recorded and is removing shows from the recently deleted folder regularly. I'm guessing that the whole of the drive has been used by now, but mostly for suggestions, which of course are recorded and deleted as the Tivo software sees fit.
> 
> There is one negative thing I've noticed consistently that I would guess is due to the advanced format drive. Fairly often the user interface (loading menus and lists) will be more sluggish than it was with my old 1TB non-AF drive. Sometimes it's a little slower, sometimes a lot slower and sometimes it seems about normal. I've experienced at least one instance where it took more than 10 seconds for the Now Playing List to fully update/populate.
> 
> Strangely, even the response of the OLED display seems a bit more sluggish when compared to how it was with the old 1TB non-AF drive. At times it can take several seconds (5-10 is a rough estimate of the slowest I've seen) for the title of a show to appear on the OLED display once a scheduled recording begins. This is just a delay with the display though, as all recordings seem to start and end on time.
> 
> At this point I wouldn't advise against using an advanced format drive, but based on my experience so far, people who would be bothered by a more sluggish user interface may wish to avoid them for that reason.


I installed the same drive in my S3 and other than the slow response right after starting up for the first time (lasted for about 30 minutes), I've noticed no sluggishness. I think the only difference in our installations is that I did not run wdidle. No idea if that would make a difference?


----------



## mrelectron

Greetings 

Being my first post here, I would like to start by thanking the many people that have contributed to this forum and bringing the collective TiVo knowledge forward.
I will attempt to contribute what I can.

Recently I too have upgraded my OLED Series 3 (648250B) unit from a 1TB to a 2TB using the WD20EURS drive thanks to Lussies and others instructions. This upgrade was performed about 3 weeks ago and went without one single issue. 

Regarding the Advanced Format (AF) drive usage, my experiences are similar to what Hummingbird_ 206 reported above except I did check the drive using the wdidle utility before installation and the utility reported the Intellipark feature was already off.

I have not made many recordings to the disk yet (less than 10) but I wanted to comment regarding S3-2501s comment above about sluggish menus and the possible association using AF drives.
I have experienced a sluggish menu access once in my 3-week experience and only for a few moments. I did find when this sluggishness was occurring the TiVo unit was actually performing some Garbage Collection and Indexing chores which may have contributed to this sluggishness menu access.

Other than that, my experience with this AF drive has been very positive and has given me the confidence to purchase a second WD20EURS drive as a spare for later on.

Again thanks to all that contribute here.


----------



## Jasper

Wow, you guys are awesome!!

Huge thank you to Lussie, S3-2501 and Hummingbird_206!

This morning I was able to upgrade my S3 Tivo Hd with OLED display from a 1TB drive to a 2TB drive.

I used the WD20EARX which is an AF drive. I did have to use WDIDLE3 on the drive. I tried without, but, it hung at the Welcome Powering Up screen.

I had some trouble with the Ibored part, but once I read S3-2510's comments I figured it out.
I also ended up with 213 hours at first, just like Hummingbird, but then just went back and redid the MFSAdd making sure to say NO.
I think the hardest part for me was the whole WDIDLE3 part but I was able to find an ISO and excellent instructions here http://www.jzab.de/content/wdidle-bootcd

So, as of right now I have 318 hours HD of recording space, plus, all of my recordings intact! Time to update my sig...


----------



## mattack

Sorry for the tangential question, I know it isn't directly related to drive upgrades.

I know that if you use a drive from one TiVo in another, you can't actually watch the recordings.

But it won't actually harm the existing recordings, will it? Can I even do a 'daily call' when in the "wrong" TiVo and have recordings that I then hope to play back on the original machine? (I know daily call isn't directly related to recordings, but who knows, there could be some really weird checks in there..)

Semi-longer version: I have an old dead OLED S3, and finally got another for parts (to hopefully revive it). It came without a hard drive, but supposedly powered up in that state (up until where it needs a hard drive obviously). So I was thinking of putting in the orig S3's orig small hard drive, booting it, and doing a daily call. (I'm 99% positive it has no service, but it'd be interesting to check.)

Then after I swap motherboards or power supplies one direction, then I'll put it all back together and hopefully it'll all "just work". But I wanted to "try out" the new one with an orig hard drive, without messing anything up on it.


----------



## unitron

mattack said:


> Sorry for the tangential question, I know it isn't directly related to drive upgrades.
> 
> I know that if you use a drive from one TiVo in another, you can't actually watch the recordings.
> 
> But it won't actually harm the existing recordings, will it? Can I even do a 'daily call' when in the "wrong" TiVo and have recordings that I then hope to play back on the original machine? (I know daily call isn't directly related to recordings, but who knows, there could be some really weird checks in there..)
> 
> Semi-longer version: I have an old dead OLED S3, and finally got another for parts (to hopefully revive it). It came without a hard drive, but supposedly powered up in that state (up until where it needs a hard drive obviously). So I was thinking of putting in the orig S3's orig small hard drive, booting it, and doing a daily call. (I'm 99% positive it has no service, but it'd be interesting to check.)
> 
> Then after I swap motherboards or power supplies one direction, then I'll put it all back together and hopefully it'll all "just work". But I wanted to "try out" the new one with an orig hard drive, without messing anything up on it.


Have you got any spare hard drives lying around?

If you take a hard drive out of one TiVo and put it in another of the same model, it will still become apparent during the boot process that the drive expected to be attached to a motherboard with a different TiVo Service Number from the one the second motherboard has, and the first thing it's going to want to do is fix that.

If you then put it back into the first TiVo, it'll want to "fix that" again.

I hold out little, if any, hope that your recordings will survive.

Better to get another hard drive at least 250GB in size and put an 648 image on that for test purposes.

Are either of these machines "lifetimed"?

If not, when either calls in, the first thing they'll find out is that they aren't subscribed.


----------



## mattack

The orig (dead) one is lifetimed. I don't know the status of the new one, but I wanted to check and possibly just get the new guide data (it's been dead about a year and a half) just since I was checking anyway (if it happened to be subscribed).

So you're just guessing? Or by "fix", do you mean a multi-hour fsck of the drive?

I was under the impression from other descriptions that it would boot (at normal speed), but you'd get an error upon trying to PLAY a recording from another Tivo..

I might be able to find a drive.. But I might just sacrifice it and try it anyway.


----------



## mattack

I guess I'll find out when opening them, but I wonder if it's easier to move motherboard from one to the other or power supply.


----------



## unitron

mattack said:


> I guess I'll find out when opening them, but I wonder if it's easier to move motherboard from one to the other or power supply.


It's easier to move the power supply, just remember the little screw that enters the top part of AC jack from the back panel that takes a slightly smaller Torx driver than the screws that hold the circuit board down.

The first thing to try is see if the second TiVo will get as far as the first screen (welcome) with its power supply.

If so put that power supply in the original lifetimed unit and see if the same thing happens.

If so, put the original drive back in there and see what happens.


----------



## SnakeEyes

So my TiVo HD drive is dying. Fails KS54 tests. Got it used and just Lifetime'd it recently. Any drive deals out there to recommend?


----------



## Teeps

unitron said:


> I hold out little, if any, hope that your recordings will survive.
> 
> Better to get another hard drive at least 250GB in size and put an 648 image on that for test purposes.
> .


He could always dd copy his original drive to the new drive. Then install the new drive in the ebay tivo and see what it does or does not do. Data on the original drive would be preserved regardless of the outcome.

All of mattack's questions would be answered without losing any data.


----------



## Teeps

SnakeEyes said:


> So my TiVo HD drive is dying. Fails KS54 tests. Got it used and just Lifetime'd it recently. Any drive deals out there to recommend?


Weakknees or DVR_Dude have 2 TB upgrade drives that are reasonably priced.


----------



## unitron

Teeps said:


> He could always dd copy his original drive to the new drive. Then install the new drive in the ebay tivo and see what it does or does not do. Data on the original drive would be preserved regardless of the outcome.
> 
> All of mattack's questions would be answered without losing any data.


I thought of that, but I figured putting a fresh image on a different drive would be faster and wouldn't have any bad spots copied over from the old drive.

First we see if the TiVo works, then we see if the original drive is the problem after we've eliminated the power supply and motherboard as suspects.

The original drive could be physically going bad, or still good but with scrambled software.


----------



## SnakeEyes

Teeps said:


> Weakknees or DVR_Dude have 2 TB upgrade drives that are reasonably priced.


Thanks but I'm looking to not pay them a bunch extra for doing what i can do myself at home.


----------



## lpwcomp

Teeps said:


> Weakknees or DVR_Dude have 2 TB upgrade drives that are reasonably priced.


DVR_Dude seems to have been replaced by something called "ELEX Systems" Prices about the same as DVR_Dude but I have no idea if it is the same person. Yes, fairly reasonable but still more than DIY.

Anyone who thinks that the replacement drives from weaKnees are "reasonably priced" has a far different definition of reasonable than most people.


----------



## dlfl

lpwcomp said:


> DVR_Dude seems to have been replaced by something called "ELEX Systems" ......


Here's the link to ELEX on ebay:
http://stores.ebay.com/ELEX-Systems
So who's honoring the warranties for drives recently purchased from DVR_DUDE, one might wonder? But then no warranty is really ironclad, except for the lifetime warranties on those 2-for-1 TV-marketed items at $20 plus S&H.


----------



## mattack

Teeps said:


> He could always dd copy his original drive to the new drive. Then install the new drive in the ebay tivo and see what it does or does not do. Data on the original drive would be preserved regardless of the outcome.
> 
> All of mattack's questions would be answered without losing any data.


Well, I don't have an extra drive to use at the moment. Well, I have lots of old drives laying around, but not one I want to sacrifice yet.

For now I'm just trying to get the orig lifetime up on a drive, then as I have explained elsewhere, hope to get a controller card for the dead-but-spins 1 Tb drive that was in the s3 near when it died. I forget if the drive and the unit died together, or a very very short time after.... If I make a working s3 to revive my recordings, then I will prob eventually sell it (with full disclosure of course), and get an xl4.


----------



## sbourgeo

lpwcomp said:


> DVR_Dude seems to have been replaced by something called "ELEX Systems" Prices about the same as DVR_Dude but I have no idea if it is the same person. Yes, fairly reasonable but still more than DIY.


I see one of DVR_Dude's ebay items (#260998844941) contains this text:



> This seller is currently away until August 15, 2012, and is not processing orders at this time. You can add this item to your watch list to purchase later.


Maybe he's just on vacation?


----------



## lpwcomp

sbourgeo said:


> I see one of DVR_Dude's ebay items (#260998844941) contains this text:
> 
> Maybe he's just on vacation?


Possibly was. When I searched earlier, DVR_Dude's ebay store wasn't even there. The caveat you quoted seems to be gone as it should be since today is the 15th.

ELEX Systems seems to be a competitor with slightly lower prices, but their warranty situation is confusing.


----------



## sbourgeo

lpwcomp said:


> ELEX Systems seems to be a competitor with slightly lower prices, but their warranty situation is confusing.


Yeah, DVR_Dude is known to be reputable and I've never even heard of ELEX. Hopefully they'll be a good supplier too.


----------



## dlfl

DVR_DUDE has his usual ebay listings of TiVo upgrade kits now. When I looked earlier today he had nothing for sale. Apparently he shut his ebay store down until he returned yesterday. (?)


----------



## Teeps

lpwcomp said:


> Anyone who thinks that the replacement drives from weaKnees are "reasonably priced" has a far different definition of reasonable than most people.


I was trying to be accommodating.
You're right "reasonable" is, what it is.


----------



## unitron

mattack said:


> Well, I don't have an extra drive to use at the moment. Well, I have lots of old drives laying around, but not one I want to sacrifice yet.
> 
> For now I'm just trying to get the orig lifetime up on a drive, then as I have explained elsewhere, hope to get a controller card for the dead-but-spins 1 Tb drive that was in the s3 near when it died. I forget if the drive and the unit died together, or a very very short time after.... If I make a working s3 to revive my recordings, then I will prob eventually sell it (with full disclosure of course), and get an xl4.


You don't have to sacrifice anything, just take a drive at least as big as the original (250? but check LBA numbers to be sure) copy the stuff on it to other drives, put an image on it, stick in the TiVo as a test, when you're done testing, reformat it however it was formatted in the first place and put the original data back on.


----------



## SnakeEyes

Few questions:

If I were to be given someone's used TiVo HD box could I just take the drive from it and put it in my TiVo HD that has a bad drive and is stuck in a boot loop? I'd just unsub the bad drive box and sub the one given but the bad drive box just got lifetime this spring.

If I were to buy a new drive:
Since I have a bad drive (fails KS57) that I can't work off of, what would I need to do with a brand new drive? If it were the same size as the original drive. What about if it were a larger drive?

Also, I have a virgin drive image from my TiVo HD model.


----------



## ThAbtO

SnakeEyes said:


> Few questions:
> 
> If I were to be given someone's used TiVo HD box could I just take the drive from it and put it in my TiVo HD that has a bad drive and is stuck in a boot loop?
> 
> If I were to buy a new drive:
> Since I have a bad drive (fails KS57) that I can't work off of, what would I need to do with a brand new drive? If it were the same size as the original drive. What about if it were a larger drive?
> 
> Also, I have a virgin drive image from my TiVo HD model.


Pretty much, but only if its the same model, ie: TCD652 to TCD652. However, the drive may be as old as your own and may fail at some future point as well.

How did you get your drive image? Was it a .TBK? Then, its a WinMFS file and you can restore to a new, larger drive, never smaller.


----------



## SnakeEyes

The "dont ask me" thread was helpful  and it's .TBK


----------



## unitron

SnakeEyes said:


> Few questions:
> 
> If I were to be given someone's used TiVo HD box could I just take the drive from it and put it in my TiVo HD that has a bad drive and is stuck in a boot loop? I'd just unsub the bad drive box and sub the one given but the bad drive box just got lifetime this spring.
> 
> If I were to buy a new drive:
> Since I have a bad drive (fails KS57) that I can't work off of, what would I need to do with a brand new drive? If it were the same size as the original drive. What about if it were a larger drive?
> 
> Also, I have a virgin drive image from my TiVo HD model.


If you can find a working HD cheap like on Craigslist or something, that would be the fastest way, just take the drive out and put it in yours and have an extra power supply on hand.

When you boot up with the new drive, it'll complain about being in the wrong TiVo (error 51, I think) and you'll have to give it a few hours to sort itself out and then go through Guided Setup.

Now if you made a backup of your present drive after getting it set for your area and channels and cable co and such, then it would be better to restore that onto the drive.

But get the WD diagnostic software (preferably the bootable cd) and run the long test on both drives first.


----------



## dlfl

unitron said:


> ........But get the WD diagnostic software (preferably the bootable cd) and run the long test on both drives first.


Why preferably the bootable cd over the Windows app?


----------



## unitron

dlfl said:


> Why preferably the bootable cd over the Windows app?


Having the cd gives you options and flexibility.

Windows probably won't do any harm to the arrangement of bits on the drive(s) to be testedwhen it boots up.

There's an extremely good chance it won't.

But that doesn't mean absolutely no chance at all.

Besides, if you have the cd, you can use a computer without any hard drive installed at all (except the one(s) to be tested), or you can disconnect the hard drive if you need the SATA port or IDE controller header to connect the drive to be tested.

Computers are like cars, you need more than one so you can use one while the other one's tied up, or so that you can use one as part of the process of fixing the other one.


----------



## jscolton

Hi all. First time poster. I just finished upgrading my stock Tivo HD 160GB to 2TB. It was much simpler than I thought from reading much of this thread. I wasted a bunch of time trying to follow directions from posts 8737 (Lussie) and 8756 (S3-2501). Eventually I realized that they had a much more complicated procedure because they were not upgrading from the stock drive but rather from an already upgraded drive.

In case anyone else is looking to upgrade from the stock drive and is similarly confused, here's all you need to do:

1. Create a bootable CD with JMFS on it. Some helpful info is in post 1 of the "Tivo HD Upgrade Instructions - using JMFS" thread.

2. Attach original Tivo drive and new drive to motherboard SATA ports. I used Western Digital WD20EURS drive, like S3-2501 described in post 8756. (I believe you don't need to use wdidle3 with that drive; at least when I ran it to check status, like S3-2501 I got the message that "timer is disabled" so I didn't do anything further. If you don't want to leave it to chance, you can also use wdidle3 to check for yourself; I ran it off of a bootable USB stick I created. Don't recall offhand where I found the directions on how to do that.) 

3. Use JMFS to copy old drive onto new drive. Note: JMFS would not run in my main computer (a quad core; don't know if that's important). But it ran fine in my second computer (a dual core). Once I got it working it was self explanatory, just follow the prompts. It took me right around 1 hour for the copy. After the copy is done, JMFS will ask if you want to expand the drive; answer "yes".

4. Disconnect original Tivo drive and boot up into Windows. Run WinMFS, a download link is in first post of this thread. Use it to enable SuperSize.

5. Reconnect new drive to the Tivo unit. Gives 318 HD hours! 

Including the time to open up Tivo, take out drive, and close it up again at the end, the whole process took less than 2 hours and only cost about $110 for the new drive. (That's not counting the time it took to download the software, create the bootable CD, and of course figure out what the heck I needed to do. Also not counting the time spent debugging a problem with my new hard drive. Called WD tech support, and the guy said the drive was bad so I sent it in for a replacement. All told, total time was much more like 8 hours. But I could do it again in 2 hours, easy.)

Hope that's helpful to some others so you don't need to spin your wheels doing unnecessary things as long as I did.


----------



## unitron

jscolton said:


> Hi all. First time poster. I just finished upgrading my stock Tivo HD 160GB to 2TB. It was much simpler than I thought from reading much of this thread. I wasted a bunch of time trying to follow directions from posts 8737 (Lussie) and 8756 (S3-2501). Eventually I realized that they had a much more complicated procedure because they were not upgrading from the stock drive but rather from an already upgraded drive.
> 
> In case anyone else is looking to upgrade from the stock drive and is similarly confused, here's all you need to do:
> 
> 1. Create a bootable CD with JMFS on it. Some helpful info is in post 1 of the "Tivo HD Upgrade Instructions - using JMFS" thread.
> 
> 2. Attach original Tivo drive and new drive to motherboard SATA ports. I used Western Digital WD20EURS drive, like S3-2501 described in post 8756. (I believe you don't need to use wdidle3 with that drive; at least when I ran it to check status, like S3-2501 I got the message that "timer is disabled" so I didn't do anything further. If you don't want to leave it to chance, you can also use wdidle3 to check for yourself; I ran it off of a bootable USB stick I created. Don't recall offhand where I found the directions on how to do that.)
> 
> 3. Use JMFS to copy old drive onto new drive. Note: JMFS would not run in my main computer (a quad core; don't know if that's important). But it ran fine in my second computer (a dual core). Once I got it working it was self explanatory, just follow the prompts. It took me right around 1 hour for the copy. After the copy is done, JMFS will ask if you want to expand the drive; answer "yes".
> 
> 4. Disconnect original Tivo drive and boot up into Windows. Run WinMFS, a download link is in first post of this thread. Use it to enable SuperSize.
> 
> 5. Reconnect new drive to the Tivo unit. Gives 318 HD hours!
> 
> Including the time to open up Tivo, take out drive, and close it up again at the end, the whole process took less than 2 hours and only cost about $110 for the new drive. (That's not counting the time it took to download the software, create the bootable CD, and of course figure out what the heck I needed to do. Also not counting the time spent debugging a problem with my new hard drive. Called WD tech support, and the guy said the drive was bad so I sent it in for a replacement. All told, total time was much more like 8 hours. But I could do it again in 2 hours, easy.)
> 
> Hope that's helpful to some others so you don't need to spin your wheels doing unnecessary things as long as I did.


The important part is knowing whether you're putting a bigger drive in a Premiere, the S3 HD or S3 HD XL, or the original S3.

jmfs works for all of those except the original S3.

That means a bigger (beyond a certain amount) drive in an original S3 is a more complicated undertaking, regardless of whether they're starting with the original 250GB drive, or a larger replacement.

When Lussie says "I have just upgraded my old Tivo S3 (one with the OLED Display)...", that means it is not directly comparable with upgrading your HD.

This is partly TiVo's fault for using confusing names for the S3 platform models.

Which is why it is not a bad idea for everyone here to include TCD numbers.


----------



## jscolton

unitron said:


> When Lussie says "I have just upgraded my old Tivo S3 (one with the OLED Display)...", that means it is not directly comparable with upgrading your HD.


Ah, thanks for clarifying. I hadn't realized that from the reading that I did.


----------



## Teeps

unitron said:


> The important part is knowing whether you're putting a bigger drive in a Premiere, the S3 HD or S3 HD XL, or the original S3.
> <SNIP>
> Which is why it is not a bad idea for everyone here to include TCD numbers.


Excellent point...

Additionally, for some problems it can be extremely helpful to include your city and state in your profile view.


----------



## unitron

Teeps said:


> Excellent point...
> 
> Additionally, for some problems it can be extremely helpful to include your city and state in your profile view.


Or at least enough to figure out which media market you're in.


----------



## unitron

jscolton said:


> Hi all. First time poster. I just finished upgrading my stock Tivo HD 160GB to 2TB. It was much simpler than I thought from reading much of this thread. I wasted a bunch of time trying to follow directions from posts 8737 (Lussie) and 8756 (S3-2501). Eventually I realized that they had a much more complicated procedure because they were not upgrading from the stock drive but rather from an already upgraded drive.
> 
> In case anyone else is looking to upgrade from the stock drive and is similarly confused, here's all you need to do:
> 
> 1. Create a bootable CD with JMFS on it. Some helpful info is in post 1 of the "Tivo HD Upgrade Instructions - using JMFS" thread.
> 
> 2. Attach original Tivo drive and new drive to motherboard SATA ports. I used Western Digital WD20EURS drive, like S3-2501 described in post 8756. (I believe you don't need to use wdidle3 with that drive; at least when I ran it to check status, like S3-2501 I got the message that "timer is disabled" so I didn't do anything further. If you don't want to leave it to chance, you can also use wdidle3 to check for yourself; I ran it off of a bootable USB stick I created. Don't recall offhand where I found the directions on how to do that.)
> 
> 3. Use JMFS to copy old drive onto new drive. Note: JMFS would not run in my main computer (a quad core; don't know if that's important). But it ran fine in my second computer (a dual core). Once I got it working it was self explanatory, just follow the prompts. It took me right around 1 hour for the copy. After the copy is done, JMFS will ask if you want to expand the drive; answer "yes".
> 
> 4. Disconnect original Tivo drive and boot up into Windows. Run WinMFS, a download link is in first post of this thread. Use it to enable SuperSize.
> 
> 5. Reconnect new drive to the Tivo unit. Gives 318 HD hours!
> 
> Including the time to open up Tivo, take out drive, and close it up again at the end, the whole process took less than 2 hours and only cost about $110 for the new drive. (That's not counting the time it took to download the software, create the bootable CD, and of course figure out what the heck I needed to do. Also not counting the time spent debugging a problem with my new hard drive. Called WD tech support, and the guy said the drive was bad so I sent it in for a replacement. All told, total time was much more like 8 hours. But I could do it again in 2 hours, easy.)
> 
> Hope that's helpful to some others so you don't need to spin your wheels doing unnecessary things as long as I did.


And another thought inspired by your post, whenever you get a hard drive, new, used, refurb, warranty replacement, it it's new to you, or one you haven't used for anything in a while...

*Run the manufacturer's long test first*.


----------



## mattack

Hopefully my last tangential post.. Apparently my dead OLED S3 is the motherboard, not the power supply.. I moved the power supply from the eBay S3 I bought to my orig S3.. Still essentially nothing when I plug it in -- the drive gets power, the no lights on the front nor video out.. So the motherboard seems dead.

I did boot the eBay S3 before I switched power supplies, and it boots fully (I was confusing it with a previous one I had bid on, thinking it would be without hard drive). It seems like one of the tuners might not be working, but I redid guided setup before it saw the cable cards, and now it 'knows' it has no service, so it may be "confused". Basically, before, I was getting grey screen on one of the tuners.. at least that's what I think was happening when I was flipping around channels.

So I'm not quite sure if I should even try to get the crypto chip moved. I'm starting to think I'm throwing good money after bad. Does anybody know how much it'd cost to get someone to move the crypto chip, and which chip that is?


----------



## Finalrinse

jscolton said:


> 3. Use JMFS to copy old drive onto new drive. 4. Disconnect original Tivo drive and boot up into Windows. Run WinMFS, a download link is in first post of this thread. Use it to enable SuperSize.


Thanks for the information as I'm about to do the same thing tomorrow on a new Premier 4. I'm receiving my new Western Digital WD20EURS drive today and already made the WD Diag DOS disk, WDIDLE 3 disk, and JMFS disk. My question is, *I thought the latest version of JMFS included "SuperSize"?*


----------



## unitron

Finalrinse said:


> Thanks for the information as I'm about to do the same thing tomorrow on a new Premier 4. I'm receiving my new Western Digital WD20EURS drive today and already made the WD Diag DOS disk, WDIDLE 3 disk, and JMFS disk. My question is, *I thought the latest version of JMFS included "SuperSize"?*


Down in the upgrade forum there is a thread about using jmfs on a Premiere and a separate thread on using jmfs on the S3 HD and HD XL.

This thread we're in right now is technically a Series 3 thread and the Premiere is a Series 4 platform machine.

You should seek out Premiere/S4 specific advice, information, and instructions.


----------



## Finalrinse

unitron said:


> Down in the upgrade forum there is a thread about using jmfs on a Premiere and a separate thread on using jmfs on the S3 HD and HD XL.
> 
> This thread we're in right now is technically a Series 3 thread and the Premiere is a Series 4 platform machine.
> 
> You should seek out Premiere/S4 specific advice, information, and instructions.


I'm sorry, didn't realize I was in the Series 3 forum.


----------



## unitron

Finalrinse said:


> I'm sorry, didn't realize I was in the Series 3 forum.


This particular thread frankensteined into a hard drives in general thread to a certain degree some time back, but you need to be aware that the S4 represented a change in the TiVo's file system from the previous 3 platforms.

That's the reason jmfs was necessary in the first place.

It was more a happy accident than anything else that it could also be used for the later models of the S3 platform.


----------



## jilter

I have decided to upgrade my TivoHD before my Series 2 as it seems it may be simpler. I read the whole thread and currently (based on the last live link to a hard drive) it looks like it would save me 14.00 to do it myself against buying a 1Tb PlugnPlay drive from DVR_Dude. Is there something I am missing? Are there drives to be had somewhere that cost less that are proven in Tivos? The only caveat obviously is if I want to save recordings, that changes the cost significantly.
Thanks for any feedback.


----------



## tkoyn

Which Hitachi 2TB drive(s) have people succeeded with in Tivo HD to get 2 full TB capacity working well?

Deskstar 7K2000 http://www.hgst.com/deskstar-7k2000
Deskstar 7K3000 http://www.hgst.com/deskstar-7k3000


----------



## lpwcomp

jilter said:


> I have decided to upgrade my TivoHD before my Series 2 as it seems it may be simpler. I read the whole thread and currently (based on the last live link to a hard drive) it looks like it would save me 14.00 to do it myself against buying a 1Tb PlugnPlay drive from DVR_Dude. Is there something I am missing? Are there drives to be had somewhere that cost less that are proven in Tivos? The only caveat obviously is if I want to save recordings, that changes the cost significantly.
> Thanks for any feedback.


Exactly what prices are you comparing?


----------



## dlfl

jilter said:


> I have decided to upgrade my TivoHD before my Series 2 as it seems it may be simpler. I read the whole thread and currently (based on the last live link to a hard drive) it looks like it would save me 14.00 to do it myself against buying a 1Tb PlugnPlay drive from DVR_Dude. Is there something I am missing? Are there drives to be had somewhere that cost less that are proven in Tivos? The only caveat obviously is if I want to save recordings, that changes the cost significantly.
> Thanks for any feedback.


I suspect you could save something like $30 or $40 dollars on 1 TB although I can't provide a specific link for a drive on sale. However, if I were upgrading or replacing a drive in my TiVoHD now, I would probably go with DVR_DUDE because of the "Advanced Format" (AF) issue which affects all new WD drives, which are the drive of choice for TiVo's. I realize people are doing successful upgrades with WD AF drives but I'm just not sure it's going to pan out in the long run (e.g., when these drive are full of programs, for example). I've queried DVR_DUDE about this and he replied that he takes the AF issue into account (presumably by some sector alignment procedure) when he puts the TiVo system on the drives he sells. Given his good reputation I will believe him. I'm not a person who shies away from DIY upgrades using WinMFS/jmfs -- my current drive is a WinMFS 1 TB upgrade. I realize my position is controversial -- just sayin'

I would like to know more of the details about what DVR_DUDE is doing to handle AF and I actually suggested he post a brief summary here (not giving away any of his proprietary info). But so far......


----------



## jilter

I sure did miscalculate - sorry (long night and no coffee before I typed)
The difference would be 36.00, significantly different than I had stated. Post #8824 links to a Seagate 1Tb drive for 106.99 + approx 7.00 shipping. E-Bay price is 150.00/free shipping. I will have to reconsider. Again. It all just seems to be so confusing.


----------



## jilter

dlfl said:


> I suspect you could save something like $30 or $40 dollars on 1 TB although I can't provide a specific link for a drive on sale.
> [....................] I would like to know more of the details about what DVR_DUDE is doing to handle AF and I actually suggested he post a brief summary here (not giving away any of his proprietary info). But so far......


I really appreciate your post on this. Once the thread started discussing the AF issue, my eyes starting glazing over. I have methodically red everything I can. Over again. I am still very unsure about which way to go.


----------



## lpwcomp

jilter said:


> I sure did miscalculate - sorry (long night and no coffee before I typed)
> The difference would be 36.00, significantly different than I had stated. Post #8824 links to a Seagate 1Tb drive for 106.99 + approx 7.00 shipping. E-Bay price is 150.00/free shipping. I will have to reconsider. Again. It all just seems to be so confusing.


Ignoring the AF issue for the moment (it may or may not be a problem), you can get a WD Green drive for about $93, including shipping.


----------



## unitron

jilter said:


> I have decided to upgrade my TivoHD before my Series 2 as it seems it may be simpler. I read the whole thread and currently (based on the last live link to a hard drive) it looks like it would save me 14.00 to do it myself against buying a 1Tb PlugnPlay drive from DVR_Dude. Is there something I am missing? Are there drives to be had somewhere that cost less that are proven in Tivos? The only caveat obviously is if I want to save recordings, that changes the cost significantly.
> Thanks for any feedback.


Go find where I talk about using a 1TB drive as a middleman in an S3 HD update (TCD652160), where you use WinMFS to copy (thereby saving your recordings) the original 160GB drive to a 1TB drive, increasing the swap size to 1GB (1000 MB) and expanding into the rest of the drive by adding an MFS partition pair without any space being left over, and then using jmfs to copy that to a 2TB drive.

That method will cause you to have a 1TB drive left over, which you can use in your S2 if you get a 1TB compatible with S2s (and a JMicron or Marvell chipset based SATA/IDE adapter).


----------



## mattack

tkoyn said:


> Which Hitachi 2TB drive(s) have people succeeded with in Tivo HD to get 2 full TB capacity working well?
> 
> Deskstar 7K2000 http://www.hgst.com/deskstar-7k2000
> Deskstar 7K3000 http://www.hgst.com/deskstar-7k3000


I don't think you can get the full 2 TB.. Read the FAQ.. it's 1 TB + original hard drive size.


----------



## lpwcomp

mattack said:


> I don't think you can get the full 2 TB.. Read the FAQ.. it's 1 TB + original hard drive size.


You should really try to keep up to speed:

Tivo HD Upgrade Instructions - using JMFS


----------



## unitron

mattack said:


> I don't think you can get the full 2 TB.. Read the FAQ.. it's 1 TB + original hard drive size.


That's the way it used to be, apparently the most recent update of the OS on the even the original S3 allows the use of all of a 2TB if you go about it the right way.


----------



## tkoyn

tkoyn said:


> Which Hitachi 2TB drive(s) have people succeeded with in Tivo HD to get 2 full TB capacity working well?
> 
> Deskstar 7K2000 http://www.hgst.com/deskstar-7k2000
> Deskstar 7K3000 http://www.hgst.com/deskstar-7k3000


Any comments on the merits of these drives for TiVo use, compared to each other, and to other brands?

Thanks


----------



## jilter

unitron said:


> Go find where I talk about using a 1TB drive as a middleman in an S3 HD update (TCD652160), where you use WinMFS to copy (thereby saving your recordings) the original 160GB drive to a 1TB drive, i*ncreasing the swap size to 1GB (1000 MB) and expanding into the rest of the drive by adding an MFS partition pair without any space being left over, and then using jmfs to copy that to a 2TB drive.*
> 
> That method will cause you to have a 1TB drive left over, which you can use in your S2 if you get a 1TB compatible with S2s (and a JMicron or Marvell chipset based SATA/IDE adapter).


Sorry you lost me there. (Bolded)


----------



## dlfl

tkoyn said:


> Any comments on the merits of these drives for TiVo use, compared to each other, and to other brands?
> 
> Thanks


A useful technique is to search this thread (and/or the entire forum) using key words such as Hitachi and Deskstar.


----------



## unitron

jilter said:


> Sorry you lost me there. (Bolded)


Series 1 through Series 3 TiVos use a hard drive partitioning scheme based on, but not entirely compatible with, the way Apple used to do it.

That's why a DOS/Windows type operating system on a PC will see a TiVo drive as being blank, because it doesn't know how to read the partition map.

One of the partitions on a TiVo drive is a dedicated swap partition.

When people started experimenting with "embiggening" TiVo drives, it was discovered that the original size of the swap partition wasn't big enough on a larger than stock drive if the TiVo ran into trouble and needed to use the swap partition to move things around to fix the problem, so a rule of thumb of 1MB of swap partition space for every 2GB of overall new drive size came into being.

(which is why I put a 1GB, or 1000MB, swap partition on a 2TB drive)

Does it still have to be that way? Nobody knows for absolute sure, but I figure it's cheap insurance. I think it works out to about 15 minutes of video as far as how much space you lose.

jmfs has no way to make the swap partition bigger, it just copies the source drive byte for byte onto the target drive and then adds a single MFS Media partition.

jmfs was designed to work on the Series 4 platform Premieres (which have a modified version, with which WinMFS and the MFS Live cd cannot work, of the partition scheme of the previous models ), but by a happy quirk of fate, it also can be used on the S3 HD and S3 HD XL.

One can take an original HD 160GB drive and use WinMFS to copy it to a bigger drive and "expand" by adding an "MFS pair" of partitions, just the way "expanding" has been done since the Series 1.

During that process one can also have the swap partition size changed from the original size.

There's supposed to be a problem with individual partitions much larger than 1TB in the S1s through S3s.

Using a 1TB drive as a middleman on the way to a 2TB drive avoids that problem, and lets you expand the size of the swap partition as well.

You use WinMFS to go from the original 160 GB drive (after using WinMFS to make a backup, called a truncated image, of the original drive, which doesn't include any recorded shows, but does include all of your settings, including cable card pairings, thumb ratings, season passes, etc.) to the 1TB, and then expand (by adding an MFS pair) to fill the 1TB drive, and then you use jmfs to go from the 1TB to the 2TB, so that the drive that was the target at first becomes the source in the second half of the overall operation.

jmfs will copy the 1TB byte for byte, add a single partition of just under 1TB, and rewrite the partition map and headers accordingly.

At which point the 1TB has served its purpose and is available for other things.

Like going into your S2 if coupled with an appropriate SATA/IDE adapter.


----------



## mattack

lpwcomp said:


> You should really try to keep up to speed:
> 
> Tivo HD Upgrade Instructions - using JMFS


Sorry, I stand corrected. I actually have used JMFS.. Hmm, I sure thought I wasn't able to do it, whenever I upgraded my Tivo HD long ago..

(and of course jmfs won't work on the OLED S3..)


----------



## slowbiscuit

tkoyn said:


> Any comments on the merits of these drives for TiVo use, compared to each other, and to other brands?
> 
> Thanks


My 7K1000 1TB drive crapped out just after a year in a Tivo HD. Luckily it was still under warranty and I got a refurb, put it into an HTPC instead.


----------



## billbillw

Great deal at newegg on the latest 2TB AV-GP right now. Its only $85 with free shipping right now (use a coupon code that is listed). That's the lowest price I've seen on that model.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136783

Price is good through 8/25.


----------



## Soapm

out of stock... Darn it.


----------



## jon96cobra

What is the name of the drive?


----------



## dprice

I can't get my 1.0 TB WD10EARX (30 May 2012) to cold boot in my Series 3 unit. I did the drive copy using WinMFS and ran wdidle3. Just like I did in my TivoHD a few months ago with a WD10EURS (or whatever it was - which worked perfectly). So I did it a second time and same result. Everything seemed to work but I'm stuck on the powering up screen.

So I did a little digging and discovered the WD10EARX was on the drives to avoid list due to advanced formatting. I'm using an older PC (AMD X2...2006 bios date?) running XP Pro SP3 if that makes any difference.

Can I make this drive work or do I need to swap it? 

Any advice and help is appreciated.

Thanks!


----------



## ThAbtO

dprice said:


> I can't get my 1.0 TB WD10EARX (30 May 2012) to cold boot in my Series 3 unit. I did the drive copy using WinMFS and ran wdidle3. Just like I did in my TivoHD a few months ago with a WD10EURS (or whatever it was - which worked perfectly). So I did it a second time and same result. Everything seemed to work but I'm stuck on the powering up screen.
> 
> So I did a little digging and discovered the WD10EARX was on the drives to avoid list due to advanced formatting. I'm using an older PC (AMD X2...2006 bios date?) running XP Pro SP3 if that makes any difference.
> 
> Can I make this drive work or do I need to swap it?
> 
> Any advice and help is appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!


You would need to boot to DOS and not Windows to run "wdidle3 /D", or "wdidle3 /s:300"


----------



## lpwcomp

ThAbtO said:


> You would need to boot to DOS and not Windows to run "wdidle3 /D", or "wdidle3 /s:300"


Irrelevant, as wdidle3 shouldn't have anything to do with it since that only affects soft boots. Besides, he didn't say he ran wdidle3 under windows, just that he ran it. Since he has done it before, you should assume he knows what he is doing.

I concur in the "check all connections" suggestion.


----------



## dprice

ThAbtO said:


> You would need to boot to DOS and not Windows to run "wdidle3 /D", or "wdidle3 /s:300"


I did boot to DOS. Wdidle3 seemd to work fine in that it reported "idle3 timer is disabled".

Also noted I'm working with a gigabyte mobo which is different that what worked for the Tivo HD previously...


----------



## dlfl

dprice said:


> I can't get my 1.0 TB WD10EARX (30 May 2012) to cold boot in my Series 3 unit. I did the drive copy using WinMFS and ran wdidle3. Just like I did in my TivoHD a few months ago with a WD10EURS (or whatever it was - which worked perfectly). So I did it a second time and same result. Everything seemed to work but I'm stuck on the powering up screen.
> 
> So I did a little digging and discovered the WD10EARX was on the drives to avoid list due to advanced formatting. I'm using an older PC (AMD X2...2006 bios date?) running XP Pro SP3 if that makes any difference.
> 
> Can I make this drive work or do I need to swap it?
> 
> Any advice and help is appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!


Search this thread on "WD10EARX" -- 25 responses!

A number of people have reported successful upgrades using AF drives, although I'm not totally convinced about them.


----------



## lpwcomp

There are known problems with some Gigabyte mobos creating an HPA on attached drives and writing a copy of the BIOS to it, although I think they're only _*supposed*_ to do that to the *first* drive found. Did you by any chance disconnect your other drives when you ran wdidle3?


----------



## dprice

lpwcomp said:


> There are known problems with some Gigabyte mobos creating an HPA on attached drives and writing a copy of the BIOS to it, although I think they're only _*supposed*_ to do that to the *first* drive found. Did you by any chance disconnect your other drives when you ran wdidle3?


I'm not sure. I gave winMFS a second try on a different machine using the truncated backup-restore method. Didn't rerun wdidle3. Seem to be getting the same stuck on "Welcome! Powering up..." screen.

Any clues here?

Mfsinfo (Drive 1)

Boot Page
Boot Page: root=/dev/hda7
Active Boot Partition: 6 Active Root Partition: 7
Backup Boot Partition: 3 Backup Root Partition: 4

MFS Super Header
state=0 magic=abbafeed
devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13 /dev/hda14 /dev/hda15
zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=1951665152

Zone Maps
Z0:	type=0
map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=589822
next_map_start=263266 next_map_size=9 next_backup_map_start=589813
zone_first=1122 zone_last=263265 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=63c72fca logstamp=21329527 num_bitmap=1
Z1:	type=2
map_start=263266 map_size=9 backup_map_start=589813
next_map_start=263275 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589779
zone_first=589824 zone_last=217329663 zone_size=216739840 min(chunk)=20480
free=91545600 checksum=bde8512f logstamp=21488097 num_bitmap=15
Z2:	type=1
map_start=263275 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589779
next_map_start=217336832 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=217926655
zone_first=263309 zone_last=589772 zone_size=326464 min(chunk)=8
free=36784 checksum=e51e68a3 logstamp=21488097 num_bitmap=17
Z3:	type=0
map_start=217336832 map_size=1 backup_map_start=217926655
next_map_start=217598977 next_map_size=130 next_backup_map_start=217926525
zone_first=217336833 zone_last=217598976 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=381412e4 logstamp=21329527 num_bitmap=1
Z4:	type=2
map_start=217598977 map_size=130 backup_map_start=217926525
next_map_start=217599107 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=217926491
zone_first=217926656 zone_last=486544383 zone_size=268617728 min(chunk)=2048
free=117288960 checksum=78130bec logstamp=21488097 num_bitmap=19
Z5:	type=1
map_start=217599107 map_size=34 backup_map_start=217926491
next_map_start=486544384 next_map_size=66 next_backup_map_start=486546366
zone_first=217599141 zone_last=217926484 zone_size=327344 min(chunk)=8
free=272480 checksum=d3580b62 logstamp=21488097 num_bitmap=17
Z6:	type=2
map_start=486544384 map_size=66 backup_map_start=486546366
next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=2863311530
zone_first=486546432 zone_last=1951665151 zone_size=1465118720 min(chunk)=20480
free=1465118720 checksum=7f3efd12 logstamp=0 num_bitmap=18

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 698.6G)

Total SA SD Hours: 1040	Total DTV SD Hours: 908 86 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-648	Tivo Model: TCD648250B


----------



## lpwcomp

dprice said:


> I'm not sure. I gave winMFS a second try on a different machine using the truncated backup-restore method. Didn't rerun wdidle3. Seem to be getting the same stuck on "Welcome! Powering up..." screen.
> 
> Any clues here?
> 
> Mfsinfo (Drive 1)


Part of the problem is that the HPA is hidden and therefore will not be seen by most tools. Reformatting the disk does not remove it. There are ways to detect it's presence and tools available to remove it. See here for more information. I've never actually had to deal with the situation. I avoided using a Gigabyte mobo when I replaced a failing THD 160GB with a 1TB just for that reason.

Have you tried putting the original drive back in?


----------



## dprice

lpwcomp said:


> Have you tried putting the original drive back in?


Yes. It was getting late and I didn't turn on the TV but the LED display lit up to indicate it was recording and I could see it from the other tivo box. So it seems to work fine.

I'll read up on the HPA stuff and see if it leads anywhere.


----------



## unitron

dprice said:


> Yes. It was getting late and I didn't turn on the TV but the LED display lit up to indicate it was recording and I could see it from the other tivo box. So it seems to work fine.
> 
> I'll read up on the HPA stuff and see if it leads anywhere.


The way to look for an HPA is to boot with the MFS Live cd v1.4 and use the

hdparm

utility, with which one always wants to be careful.

You can type

hdparm -?

and that should get you the main listing of commands.

hdparm -N /dev/sdx

should return a number, a slash, and another number, and if the two numbers are not identical, it's a sign of an HPA.

The

x

in the above command would actually be a, b, c, etc., depending on where you have the actual drive hooked up, and if it's a PATA/IDE instead of a SATA, it would be

/dev/hdx

You can use this method to detect an HPA even if on a GigaByte board, but you may or may not be able to fix it on that same board.

Tell us what you've got and what's hooked to it.


----------



## a68oliver

lpwcomp said:


> Irrelevant, as wdidle3 shouldn't have anything to do with it since that only affects soft boots. Besides, he didn't say he ran wdidle3 under windows, just that he ran it. Since he has done it before, you should assume he knows what he is doing.
> 
> I concur in the "check all connections" suggestion.


I beg to differ with you. When I upgraded my S3 OLED to 1tb, it refused to boot in either soft or hard boot. After running wdidle3, it worked perfectly. Search this thread for my earlier post.


----------



## dprice

I disconnected all drives on the gigabyte mobo except the CD and WD10EARX and booted up MFS Live disk and ran hdparm...and...

max sectors = 1953523055 / 1953525168, HPA is enabled

So that answers that question. I'll dig through here looking for the HPA fix....


----------



## lillevig

dprice said:


> I disconnected all drives on the gigabyte mobo except the CD and WD10EARX and booted up MFS Live disk and ran hdparm...and...
> 
> max sectors = 1953523055 / 1953525168, HPA is enabled
> 
> So that answers that question. I'll dig through here looking for the HPA fix....


If you want to avoid possible issues with the MB and also having to crack open your PC, try cheap USB to SATA cables. I use those exclusively and successfully with both my desktop and laptop computers. Worked for both WinMFS and MFS Live disk.


----------



## unitron

dprice said:


> I disconnected all drives on the gigabyte mobo except the CD and WD10EARX and booted up MFS Live disk and ran hdparm...and...
> 
> max sectors = 1953523055 / 1953525168, HPA is enabled
> 
> So that answers that question. I'll dig through here looking for the HPA fix....


If you're going to keep using that mobo, you need a sacrificial disk drive to be the first PATA/IDE if you're running any PATAs at all, or to be the first SATA if you aren't running anything but SATA.

If you're running XP on that 'puter, then there's probably already an HPA on the Windows drive, and if there is and it's "ahead" of the TiVo drive, you should be able to disable the HPA on the TiVo drive.

First boot with the MFS Live cd and run

hdparm -N

to see if the Windows drive does have an HPA.

If so, then assuming it is recognized as /dev/sda and the TiVo drive as /dev/sdb, then I think

hdparm -p1953525168 /dev/sdb

will remove the HPA from the TiVo drive.

Be sure to run

hdparm -I /dev/sda

and

hdparm -I /dev/sdb

to be sure which drive is which.

If there is not an HPA on your Windows drive, then we'll have to get you to get the

Parted Magic cd image and burn yourself a copy and do some partition shrinking to make some space at the end.

While you're doing that, you may need to temporarily make the HPA'ed TiVo drive sda and the Windows drive sdb to keep the motherboard distracted while you do the partition voodoo.


----------



## dprice

Got it. Assuming I get through removing the HPA partition, is there any need to recopy the original Tivo drive?

# 2 - I haven't done anything about the advance format "problem". No jumpers, no utilities, nothing. Do I need to do something before installing in the S3?


----------



## lpwcomp

dprice said:


> I disconnected all drives on the gigabyte mobo except the CD and WD10EARX and booted up MFS Live disk and ran hdparm...and...
> 
> max sectors = 1953523055 / 1953525168, HPA is enabled
> 
> So that answers that question. I'll dig through here looking for the HPA fix....


um, I think we have had a failure to communicate. The reason I asked whether or not you had originally had it as the only attached hard drive was because that would definitely cause it to create the HPA, which is ony supposed to be written to the first hard drive it detects. At this point, we have no idea if it was already on there.


----------



## dprice

DOH! 

Not quite as bad formatting the OS floppy disk on my new Commodore 64 the second day I had it....

So I hooked the windows drive back up as sda and the WD10 as sdb (confirmed by hdparm) and tried to remove the HPA and came up with this error...

attempting to set UDMA mode to 19553524968 
HDIO_SET_PIO_MODE failed: inappropriate ioctl for device

yes, I triple checked 1953525168

********** edit *******

figured it out.. part of the command was missing ( -N p1953...) . HPA removed.


----------



## unitron

dprice said:


> Got it. Assuming I get through removing the HPA partition, is there any need to recopy the original Tivo drive?
> 
> # 2 - I haven't done anything about the advance format "problem". No jumpers, no utilities, nothing. Do I need to do something before installing in the S3?


Does it have a specific jumper for dealing with the advanced format issue?


----------



## lpwcomp

dprice said:


> DOH!
> 
> Not quite as bad formatting the OS floppy disk on my new Commodore 64 the second day I had it....
> 
> So I hooked the windows drive back up as sda and the WD10 as sdb (confirmed by hdparm) and tried to remove the HPA and came up with this error...
> 
> attempting to set UDMA mode to 19553524968
> HDIO_SET_PIO_MODE failed: inappropriate ioctl for device
> 
> yes, I triple checked 1953525168
> 
> ********** edit *******
> 
> figured it out.. part of the command was missing ( -N p1953...) . HPA removed.


What were you using to remove the HPA?


----------



## dprice

unitron said:


> Does it have a specific jumper for dealing with the advanced format issue?


The drive sticker does not indicate a jumper setting like some (?) of the older AF drives. The pins are still there...

The WD Align utility is used to make it compatible with old operating systems like XP. I'm not sure if that helps here since we're not using DOS partitions.


----------



## dprice

lpwcomp said:


> What were you using to remove the HPA?


hdparm utility from the MFS live CD.


----------



## lpwcomp

dprice said:


> hdparm utility from the MFS live CD.


As I said, Ive never been in this situation, but if I were I might give HDAT2 a shot.


----------



## unitron

dprice said:


> DOH!
> 
> Not quite as bad formatting the OS floppy disk on my new Commodore 64 the second day I had it....
> 
> So I hooked the windows drive back up as sda and the WD10 as sdb (confirmed by hdparm) and tried to remove the HPA and came up with this error...
> 
> attempting to set UDMA mode to 19553524968
> HDIO_SET_PIO_MODE failed: inappropriate ioctl for device
> 
> yes, I triple checked 1953525168
> 
> ********** edit *******
> 
> figured it out.. part of the command was missing ( -N p1953...) . HPA removed.


Fortunately I don't have to do it often enough to have it memorized.

Unfortunately I only found out about it after sinking money into a couple of GigaByte brand motherboards.

Which are okay boards otherwise, but to have this feature, and not even offer a way to disable it in BIOS is rather infuriating considering that I paid them and not the other way around.

Did you check and make sure that your Windows drive also has an HPA?

(that we aren't going to do anything about because we want it to sit there and act as a decoy)


----------



## dprice

I did get the HPA removed. I'm just rying to figure out if I need to do anything else before sticking it in the S3 and giving it a try.


----------



## unitron

lpwcomp said:


> As I said, Ive never been in this situation, but if I were I might give HDAT2 a shot.


Nah, he just needs better (and more complete) advice than mine.


----------



## unitron

dprice said:


> I did get the HPA removed. I'm just rying to figure out if I need to do anything else before sticking it in the S3 and giving it a try.


You've already shut down Intellipark, so go to the "don't PM me" thread and get my S3 or S3 HD image (whichever's right for what you've got), and slap it on there (preferably with WinMFS and a swap partition of 1000MB*) and expand and try it out.

If it works okay for a while, take the original drive with your settings and use it for a source, but go ahead and do the bigger swap partition option too.


----------



## lpwcomp

unitron said:


> You've already shut down Intellipark, so go to the "don't PM me" thread and get my S3 or S3 HD image (whichever's right for what you've got), and slap it on there (preferably with WinMFS and a swap partition of 1000MB*) and expand and try it out.
> 
> If it works okay for a while, take the original drive with your settings and use it for a source, but go ahead and do the bigger swap partition option too.


He already has a truncated image on another machine (presumably non gigabyte), so I would give that another shot. If you're feeling really adventurous, you might redo the copy on the other machine.


----------



## unitron

lpwcomp said:


> He already has a truncated image on another machine (presumably non gigabyte), so I would give that another shot. If you're feeling really adventurous, you might redo the copy on the other machine.


My image is a known quantity.

It works for other people, so apparently there's nothing wrong with it.

Troubleshooting means eliminating variables, not introducing them.

Just because the original or previous drive works just fine in the TiVo doesn't guarantee you can get a good image off of it.

I learned that lesson the hard way.


----------



## dprice

unitron said:


> My image is a known quantity.


648250B.TBK? Got it. I'll give it a try tomorrow if MFScopy doesn't work...which was running before I saw your reply. I'm running it on the other machine to avoid the gigabyte mobo...and yes, HPA was on the windows boot drive.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

May be upgrading soon. What's the consensus on and/or fix for Advanced Format drives? Any change from a normal jmfs or mfsLive upgrade?


----------



## unitron

ThreeSoFar said:


> May be upgrading soon. What's the consensus on and/or fix for Advanced Format drives? Any change from a normal jmfs or mfsLive upgrade?


I think the consensus is that the WD EARS models worked and the EURS, and outside of that it's a crapshoot.

And watch out for model numbers that used to mean non-AF, they may be slapping them on AF drives now.


----------



## dlfl

unitron said:


> ......And watch out for model numbers that used to mean non-AF, they may be slapping them on AF drives now.


That is definitely happening -- specific example is the WD10EADS. WD tells me any refurbished drive that has been converted to AF will have a label that says it is AF. If someone other than WD refurbished the drive, who knows?


----------



## unitron

dlfl said:


> That is definitely happening -- specific example is the WD10EADS. WD tells me any refurbished drive that has been converted to AF will have a label that says it is AF. If someone other than WD refurbished the drive, who knows?


If anyone other than the original manufacturer "refurbishes" a hard drive, I ain't goin' near it.

I'm not real crazy about the idea of the ones the manufacturers refurbish, and the almost non-existant warranty periods for them tell me all I need to know about how confident the manufacturers are in them.

I think we may be screwed on replacement/upgrade drives from here on out if we can't find new old stock.


----------



## dprice

dprice said:


> 648250B.TBK? Got it. I'll give it a try tomorrow if MFScopy doesn't work...which was running before I saw your reply. I'm running it on the other machine to avoid the gigabyte mobo...and yes, HPA was on the windows boot drive.


Retrying MFScopy from non-gigabyte mobo didn't work. S3 image didn't work.

Found non-AF WD green drives in stock at local BB store. Checked model numer on box. Drive inside box was AF WD10EARX :down: Good thing I checked it in the parking lot....returned it.

Switching to a 2008 500GB WD drive worked on first attempt.  Better than nothing I suppose. At least it has many fewer hours on it.

The WD10EARX was used to upgrade my PC (now missing the 500 GB "D" dive) when I converted it to Win7 the next day. That officially ends my adventures to upgrade the S3.

I gave my brother a WD DVR expansion drive a while back because it kept crashing my TiVOs. He never plugged it in. I think I'll get it back and see what is in it.


----------



## L David Matheny

unitron said:


> If anyone other than the original manufacturer "refurbishes" a hard drive, I ain't goin' near it.
> 
> I'm not real crazy about the idea of the ones the manufacturers refurbish, and the almost non-existant warranty periods for them tell me all I need to know about how confident the manufacturers are in them.


The ones that make me chuckle on eBay are "seller refurbished" drives. WTF is that supposed to mean? They wiped off the outside? They zero-filled it? If they actually did do something that could merit the term "refurbish", that would be truly scary.


----------



## lpwcomp

Has anyone tried installing a pin 7-8 jumper on a WD EARX, possibly after the upgrade but before installing it in the TiVo?


----------



## dprice

dprice said:


> I gave my brother a WD DVR expansion drive a while back because it kept crashing my TiVOs. He never plugged it in. I think I'll get it back and see what is in it.


1TB WD 10EVVS

Looks like non-AF and just might work.


----------



## tvmaster2

Is there a recent list of approved drives for a Tivo HD? The list on the first page is pretty old, and most things seem to be discontinued. I'm looking for a quiet, reliable 500gig drive, but would settle for a 1tb if that's all there is.
thanks


----------



## unitron

tvmaster2 said:


> Is there a recent list of approved drives for a Tivo HD? The list on the first page is pretty old, and most things seem to be discontinued. I'm looking for a quiet, reliable 500gig drive, but would settle for a 1tb if that's all there is.
> thanks


There is no such thing as an approved drive for a TiVo, except for the ones they put in at the factory.

The best one can hope for is a list of models with which others have had sucess.

That list is becoming a problem.

A lot of the models people used in the past are no longer available.

The ones that are may have the same model number but not actually be the same drive.

For instance, there's a 1TB WD model that previously was not an "advanced format" drive. Now, apparently, it is. Unless you order it from someone selling new old stock. But they probably won't know if they are or not.

And if it's a drive in a retail box, where the box has its own model number, the actual model of the drive inside may easily not be the same as what they were putting in that box last month or last year.

Plus, with drive companies being bought up by other companies, ordering a particular, for example, Samsung model may not even get you a Samsung drive, it might get you a Seagate with a different label.

Western Digital hasn't borg'ed Hitachi quite that much yet, but next month, who knows?

Using jmfs, you can put a 2TB drive in an HD, and the WD20EURS has been used in it successfully and its still available.

I think it's "early advanced format", like the WD20EARS, which was also used successfully.

Both of those are 3Gb/s drives.

I don't think I've heard of anyone having success with a 6Gb/s drive, which is what newer ones tend to be.

In a TiVo a 7200RPM drive is faster than necessary and therefore hotter than necessary.


----------



## dprice

dprice said:


> 1TB WD 10EVVS
> 
> Looks like non-AF and just might work.


Success! Worked on first try. MFSCopy...WDIDLE3...and checked for HPA with HDPARM. Many thanks to everyone that helped!

Looks like the used My DVR Expander external drives can be a source of workable WD Green drives. Of course there is no telling if (when?) they switched to AF drives during production.


----------



## unitron

dprice said:


> Success! Worked on first try. MFSCopy...WDIDLE3...and checked for HPA with HDPARM. Many thanks to everyone that helped!
> 
> Looks like the used My DVR Expander external drives can be a source of workable WD Green drives. Of course there is no telling if (when?) they switched to AF drives during production.


After the Intellipark fiasco, which I think caught some stock, from the factory, TiVos, I'd think TiVo and WD would have learned to consult very closely on any changes to any models specifically intended for TiVos, so if AF causes problems, they wouldn't put it in the TiVo-badged WD extender.

If you get a drive from elsewhere than the inside of one of those, however, the model number may not be enough to protect you.


----------



## toy4x4

Is this a viable drive?

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...id=1346728392&sr=1-1&keywords=WD+500+GB+AV-GP

My Tivo seems to be freezing and choppy so I think the HD is going out.


----------



## dlfl

toy4x4 said:


> Is this a viable drive?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...id=1346728392&sr=1-1&keywords=WD+500+GB+AV-GP
> 
> My Tivo seems to be freezing and choppy so I think the HD is going out.


What model number TiVo? (Please don't just say Series 3 -- that could mean 3 different models).

First you should suspect capacitor plague in the power supply. Look for even slightly bulging electrolytic caps (the metal cans).

That drive looks fine based on its specs. One reservation I would have is whether it is Advanced Format (i.e., uses 4096 byte sectors instead of 512 byte). Search this thread and Google on "Advanced Format" for general info, and see this post:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9260319#post9260319
There is no consensus on the impact of AF on TiVo drive installations. DVR_DUDE (on ebay) and weaknees.com continue to sell plug-in upgrade drives and both give reassuring answers when queried as to how they handle the AF issue. Personally if I were buying this (or any WD) drive I would first query the seller as to whether the label on the drive says it is AF, and state I don't want the drive if it does Then I would order the drive and if the label does say AF I would immediately return it for refund.


----------



## toy4x4

Model: TCD648250B 

I'll check capacitors tonight.

BTW, I have a external drive on this box. The official one... If that matters


----------



## unitron

toy4x4 said:


> Model: TCD648250B
> 
> I'll check capacitors tonight.
> 
> BTW, I have a external drive on this box. The official one... If that matters


Are you looking for a replacement drive because of problems, or just to get more space?

Either way that external drive complicates things tremendously.


----------



## toy4x4

Problem.

And yes, the external makes it a pain in the butt.

Can I just use the external as the new internal following the directions here?


----------



## ThAbtO

toy4x4 said:


> Problem.
> 
> And yes, the external makes it a pain in the butt.
> 
> Can I just use the external as the new internal following the directions here?


What problems are you having? It could be the external that is failing and not the internal, possibly the cable also. If the external is failing, then you cannot use it for the internal. If the Tivo boots up without the external, then the internal is fine.

If you are looking into upgrading the internal drive, the external must be removed (booted up without the external drive) before you can do the process.


----------



## toy4x4

I will remove the external and see how it performs.


----------



## unitron

toy4x4 said:


> I will remove the external and see how it performs.


If it offers to divorce the external, and you have shows you want to save, don't let it, just pull the plug.

Then see if the problem with the external is the drive inside itself, the power supply for the external, the eSATA cable (which I hear it often is), or whatever electronics might be inside the external, if any.


----------



## Teeps

unitron said:


> Are you looking for a replacement drive because of problems, or just to get more space?
> 
> Either way that external drive complicates things tremendously.


Not really, if the internal drive is bit copied to a like sized drive. TiVo should not care about the external drive.
At least my S3-OLED didn't, after replacing the internal drive a few years ago...
Installed a 250MB Seagate internally and when TiVo booted. It was as though nothing had changed...


----------



## Dan S

Would anyone be able to recommend a currently available 2 TB drive that is currently available to buy from a mainstream retailer such as Amazon, etc.

My Tivo HD (model 652160) had its internal drive die the other day, so I am using it as an excuse to put in a larger drive. However, I have no idea which currently available 2TB SATA drives are compatible and I know one has to be careful.

I am happy to pay some extra to get a drive that is a) nice and quiet and b) has any characteristics that make the Tivo HD run as "snappy" as possible.

Thanks in advance for any assistance anyone can offer!


----------



## dlfl

I think this question was just answered in post #8935 of this thread. If you're going to do a DIY upgrade, it would be good to scan at least the last few pages of this thread.


----------



## mstenzel

Bullet version:

replacing failing 1 TB drive with WD10EADS
Mfsadd attempt yielded Error 8 and "Nothing to add"
Mfssupersize showed "MfsSupersize already on"
TiVo bootup ends with black screen till I press TiVo button, which takes me to menu with black (not green) backgroun
Menus post-boot have black backgrounds
Menus entered after watching live tv are see-through (program runs in background)
Clicking thru menus straight after boot causes reboots within a few clicks. But does not reboot if I enter menus _after_ letting live tv pop up. 
Attempted playback of any of my preserved recordings yields message: "Error playing a recording. The TiVo HD DVR was not able to record this program because there was no video signal on the channel. You may have been trying to record on a channel that you don't receive." (Not the case, FYI)
I upgraded my TiVoHD a few years back with a Seagate Pipeline 1TB. Started having reboots in the first couple minutes of shows, so I did the SMART test, which showed FAILS.

When shopping for a new hard drive, I realized that I had a WD10EADS 1TB in the tower of a rarely used PC. Having read the warnings for the green drives, I figured I would take the WDIDLE3 route and see what happens. Successfully disabled idle.

Copy process went well. Mfsadd gave me an Error 8 and "Nothing to add." I assumed that was because I was going from a 1TB to a 1TB. Am I correct?

Reboots skipped the welcome video and led to a totally black screen, till I push the TiVo button, which takes me to the home screen. 









Clicking thru menus (in an attempt to see my available hours on the account page), causes reboot. Live TV works fine. When I click on TiVo button whilst watching live TV, the menus come up on top of the broadcast, see-through like.









Attempted playback of recordings preserved from failing drive gives me this error:









This seems different than what I expected the Intellipark type loop (I wasn't sure that my WDIDLE efforts would necessarily work on the EADS). So many weird things happening. I'd rather not have to buy another drive, but I'd prefer that to the problem being the motherboard. Isn't unlikely that the drive and motherboard would fail at the same time?

Any help out there?


----------



## unitron

mstenzel said:


> Bullet version:
> 
> replacing failing 1 TB drive with WD10EADS
> Mfsadd attempt yielded Error 8 and "Nothing to add"
> Mfssupersize showed "MfsSupersize already on"
> TiVo bootup ends with black screen till I press TiVo button, which takes me to menu with black (not green) backgroun
> Menus post-boot have black backgrounds
> Menus entered after watching live tv are see-through (program runs in background)
> Clicking thru menus straight after boot causes reboots within a few clicks. But does not reboot if I enter menus _after_ letting live tv pop up.
> Attempted playback of any of my preserved recordings yields message: "Error playing a recording. The TiVo HD DVR was not able to record this program because there was no video signal on the channel. You may have been trying to record on a channel that you don't receive." (Not the case, FYI)
> I upgraded my TiVoHD a few years back with a Seagate Pipeline 1TB. Started having reboots in the first couple minutes of shows, so I did the SMART test, which showed FAILS.
> 
> When shopping for a new hard drive, I realized that I had a WD10EADS 1TB in the tower of a rarely used PC. Having read the warnings for the green drives, I figured I would take the WDIDLE3 route and see what happens. Successfully disabled idle.
> 
> Copy process went well. Mfsadd gave me an Error 8 and "Nothing to add." I assumed that was because I was going from a 1TB to a 1TB. Am I correct?
> 
> Reboots skipped the welcome video and led to a totally black screen, till I push the TiVo button, which takes me to the home screen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Clicking thru menus (in an attempt to see my available hours on the account page), causes reboot. Live TV works fine. When I click on TiVo button whilst watching live TV, the menus come up on top of the broadcast, see-through like.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Attempted playback of recordings preserved from failing drive gives me this error:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This seems different than what I expected the Intellipark type loop (I wasn't sure that my WDIDLE efforts would necessarily work on the EADS). So many weird things happening. I'd rather not have to buy another drive, but I'd prefer that to the problem being the motherboard. Isn't unlikely that the drive and motherboard would fail at the same time?
> 
> Any help out there?


Much better chance of the drive and the power supply giving trouble at the same time.

What have you done with the Pipeline drive you were replacing?

What did you do with the 160GB WD it replaced?

I'm assuming you used WinMFS?

Did you ever happen to burn yourself a copy of the MFS Live cd v1.4?

Are you doing the work on a computer with a GigaByte brand motherboard?


----------



## mstenzel

Thanks for the quick reply. My answers are under your questions below.



unitron said:


> Much better chance of the drive and the power supply giving trouble at the same time.
> 
> What have you done with the Pipeline drive you were replacing?
> I will hold onto it indefinitely since it has settings/shows. I assume I'll be copying it again soon.
> 
> What did you do with the 160GB WD it replaced?
> I moved it over to my Series 2
> 
> I'm assuming you used WinMFS?
> Correct.
> 
> Did you ever happen to burn yourself a copy of the MFS Live cd v1.4?
> No. I did it all with WinMFS.
> 
> Are you doing the work on a computer with a GigaByte brand motherboard?
> Not that I know of. It's a Dell Dimension 9100. Why do you ask?


----------



## mstenzel

*Update*:

I re-ran the WinMFS process between the 1TB drives. Several problems appear to be resolved:

Menu backgrounds are appropriately colored
Menus are no longer see-through when entered from live tv or playback
Reboot loop has ceased


However...I am not able to access my recordings. The all show up in the NPL, but I still get this error:
"Error playing a recording. The TiVo HD DVR was not able to record this program because there was no video signal on the channel. You may have been trying to record on a channel that you don't receive."

The drive I MFSCopied them from was failing, but it wasn't dead. All the recordings from its NPL copied over to the new drive's NPL-- I would think that a really bad off drive wouldn't even let me copy anything, right? 
Could its failing status allow for file copying, but not playback? 
Is there another tool I could try that could help with this?

Better, but not where I'd hoped to be.
Thanks for any suggestions or ideas.


----------



## unitron

mstenzel said:


> *Update*:
> 
> I re-ran the WinMFS process between the 1TB drives. Several problems appear to be resolved:
> 
> Menu backgrounds are appropriately colored
> Menus are no longer see-through when entered from live tv or playback
> Reboot loop has ceased
> 
> 
> However...I am not able to access my recordings. The all show up in the NPL, but I still get this error:
> "Error playing a recording. The TiVo HD DVR was not able to record this program because there was no video signal on the channel. You may have been trying to record on a channel that you don't receive."
> 
> The drive I MFSCopied them from was failing, but it wasn't dead. All the recordings from its NPL copied over to the new drive's NPL-- I would think that a really bad off drive wouldn't even let me copy anything, right?
> Could its failing status allow for file copying, but not playback?
> Is there another tool I could try that could help with this?
> 
> Better, but not where I'd hoped to be.
> Thanks for any suggestions or ideas.


Can you burn a cd?

Does your burning software have a "burn as an image" option?

Go to mfslive.org and download the MFS Live cd v1.4 .iso image

(it might be a zip file of the .iso file)

You use that cd to boot the computer, bypassing Windows entirely.

It loads a version of Linux into memory.

It includes a utility called

dd_rescue

which you invoke at the command line (no graphical interface)

You can use it to make a byte for byte copy from one drive to another.

Make sure both drives have the same LBA number.

You can add options to the

dd_rescue

command to do various things, including telling it how much to copy at a time, and giving it a larger number to use unless it runs into difficulty and giving it a smaller number to fall back to when it does run into difficulty.

You can also tell it to start at the end and work in reverse to the beginning, which for some reason I don't entirely understand can help it succeed where it otherwise wouldn't.

If it were me, I'd wrap some paper towel around the source drive, the Seagate, and stick it in the freezer overnight.

Then I'd use the

-v

option (which means verbose) to get

dd_rescue

to tell me what it was doing the whole time and I'd use the

-r

option to get it to run "backwards" and I'd tell it to only copy 512 bytes at a time and to fall back to 1 byte at a time if it ran into difficulties.

dd_rescue -?

should give you a list of the available options and you can also Google for the

dd_rescue

man pages (short for manual)

dd

is a Unix utility, and

dd_rescue

and

ddrescue

are sort of advanced versions of

dd

The MFS Live cd has

dd

and

dd_rescue

but not

ddrescue

Putting the source drive in the freezer starts it off farther away from whatever point is hot enough to cause problems, which increases the chances of success.

The paper towel absorbs condensation and keeps you from losing skin on your fingers.

Once you get the drive hooked up you slip the paper towel off so that airflow can get to the drive.

I haven't had to use the

dd_rescue

proceedure recently enough to remember every little detail of what to do, so you may have to do some searching and reading and learning.

Copying byte for byte ignores whether the source drive is formatted for Windows or Linux or Apple or whatever, it just sort of "Xerox'es" the drive without regard for the contents.

To actually access files on drives in Linux, you need to do what's called "mounting" the partitions on the drive before you can access them.

You will not need to do that. You'll be working on a lower level.

If you read the full guide at mfslive.org you'll learn something about how the cd and the Linux command line work, like the drives being called devices and referrenced on the command line as

/dev/"something"

where the "something" is something like

hda

or

sda

so that to refer to the first PATA/IDE drive (primary master), you'd call it

/dev/hda

and the second drive would be

/dev/hdb

and so on, and the first SATA drive would be

/dev/sda

and the second one would be

/dev/sdb

and so on.

So, do you want to save your recordings badly enough to brave the command line?


----------



## mstenzel

Yikes. First, thanks for taking the time to share all that with me. I hope you have that in a can somewhere and you just paste it in the fora from time to time. Someone else on the boards mentioned that raising the swap to 150 and using tpip could help with that error, but I'm not sure what that exactly means.

---------------------

Hold everything. I just did something real bad. My hard drive (with bracket attached, but not screwed into Tivo shell), was stupidly  balanced on the edge of the Tivo shell. It slipped and fell onto the amber power supply board. POP!! Sparkyflame!! The metal bracket shorted something. My beloved TiVoHD will not power up. No lights. Nada. Dead.

Did I just kill it for good? Can that board be replaced? I think I might cry right now.


----------



## unitron

mstenzel said:


> Yikes. First, thanks for taking the time to share all that with me. I hope you have that in a can somewhere and you just paste it in the fora from time to time. Someone else on the boards mentioned that raising the swap to 150 and using tpip could help with that error, but I'm not sure what that exactly means.
> 
> ---------------------
> 
> Hold everything. I just did something real bad. My hard drive (with bracket attached, but not screwed into Tivo shell), was stupidly  balanced on the edge of the Tivo shell. It slipped and fell onto the amber power supply board. POP!! Sparkyflame!! The metal bracket shorted something. My beloved TiVoHD will not power up. No lights. Nada. Dead.
> 
> Did I just kill it for good? Can that board be replaced? I think I might cry right now.


Well, you've just confirmed that the problem is the power supply, even if it wasn't before.

Maybe you got lucky and the fuse blew in time to prevent any other damage (save a scorch mark or two).

What part of the country are you in?


----------



## mstenzel

I'm in Southern California.


----------



## unitron

mstenzel said:


> I'm in Southern California.


Try Craigslist in your area, go to the main page and put "tivo" in the search box and see if you can find an HD going for around $50

You can cannibalize the power supply out of it.


----------



## mstenzel

Thanks for the good ideas. I will look into that. We're also considering just getting a Premiere, but I have no idea if those are really upgrades from the TivoHD.

Back to my initial problem, have you any ideas as to why the NPL transferred, but no titles were playable?


----------



## unitron

mstenzel said:


> ...
> 
> Back to my initial problem, have you any ideas as to why the NPL transferred, but no titles were playable?


I've seen that happen before, where it was a situation of the drive having the list of shows without actually having the shows.

It's sort of like having the Table of Contents pages but all of the pages with content have been somehow removed.

The TiVo goes to where the NPL says the show is supposed to be, doesn't find a show there for whatever reason, and responds with the error message which it the best choice for the circumstances out of the "pre-recorded" error message library which it has.

As for what brought it about in your exact situation, I don't know enough about what info the TiVo keeps where, or what was in those bad sectors, to be able to say.

But basically I think it means the TiVo ran into a case of "you can't get there from here", like maybe all the shows are on an island and the only bridge has been destroyed.


----------



## mstenzel

Great explanation. Thanks so much for taking the time to make things clearer. Your help is appreciated.


----------



## TysonL

Tivo HD upgrade with WD20EURS using MFSLive 1.4 Linux Boot CD

Quick Post about my experience.

First, I needed to change my Motherboard BIOS setting to change my SATA Drive from IDE mode to AHCI or the TIVO drives were not seen.

Used the command: cat /proc/partitions

To make very sure I understood which drive was the old and the new.
(in my case, sda was old and sdb was new)

Wanted to use:

backup -qTao - /dev/sda | restore -r 4 -s 512 -xzpi - /dev/sdb

but after the copy I got the error:

Not enough extra space to expand on A drive

I don't think I needed to, but I ran again without the "x" to get no error:

backup -qTao - /dev/sda | restore -r 4 -s 512 -zpi - /dev/sdb

But I hadn't learned what to do then to expand my drive since seems few had this issue.

mfsinfo /dev/sdb

reported the same number of hours as the original drive.

The fix to expand was to use mfsadd. To be safe I shut down and unplugged the SATA cable from the original drive and restarted.

Note: Now my backup drive is /dev/sda (instead of /dev/sdb)

I ran command:

mfsadd -r 4 -x /dev/sda

(note, lower case "x")

This takes just a few seconds, and after ...

mfsinfo /dev/sda | more

( | more stops the screen scroll so I could read the info)

It reported that there were the extra hours of recording time I expected.

I did also check the WDIDLE but it was already disabled for this drive.

Put back into the Tivo HD and everything came up fine and it also reported it could see the extra space. It has only been running for 1 day, but so far all is fine.

(When I was cloning the drive, I Also mounted a USB DOS drive and did a truncated/compressed backup to there to save for future.)

Hope this post helps someone searching for:
Not enough extra space to expand on A drive


----------



## unitron

TysonL said:


> Tivo HD upgrade with WD20EURS using MFSLive 1.4 Linux Boot CD
> 
> Quick Post about my experience.
> 
> First, I needed to change my Motherboard BIOS setting to change my SATA Drive from IDE mode to AHCI or the TIVO drives were not seen.
> 
> Used the command: cat /proc/partitions
> 
> To make very sure I understood which drive was the old and the new.
> (in my case, sda was old and sdb was new)
> 
> Wanted to use:
> 
> backup -qTao - /dev/sda | restore -r 4 -s 512 -xzpi - /dev/sdb
> 
> but after the copy I got the error:
> 
> Not enough extra space to expand on A drive
> 
> I don't think I needed to, but I ran again without the "x" to get no error:
> 
> backup -qTao - /dev/sda | restore -r 4 -s 512 -zpi - /dev/sdb
> 
> But I hadn't learned what to do then to expand my drive since seems few had this issue.
> 
> mfsinfo /dev/sdb
> 
> reported the same number of hours as the original drive.
> 
> The fix to expand was to use mfsadd. To be safe I shut down and unplugged the SATA cable from the original drive and restarted.
> 
> Note: Now my backup drive is /dev/sda (instead of /dev/sdb)
> 
> I ran command:
> 
> mfsadd -r 4 -x /dev/sda
> 
> (note, lower case "x")
> 
> This takes just a few seconds, and after ...
> 
> mfsinfo /dev/sda | more
> 
> ( | more stops the screen scroll so I could read the info)
> 
> It reported that there were the extra hours of recording time I expected.
> 
> I did also check the WDIDLE but it was already disabled for this drive.
> 
> Put back into the Tivo HD and everything came up fine and it also reported it could see the extra space. It has only been running for 1 day, but so far all is fine.
> 
> (When I was cloning the drive, I Also mounted a USB DOS drive and did a truncated/compressed backup to there to save for future.)
> 
> Hope this post helps someone searching for:
> Not enough extra space to expand on A drive


The

-q

isn't necessary, it just hides what's going on (stands for quiet mode)

fdisk -l

would show you some things about the drives, and I think that includes size.

pdisk -l

would show you the partition map for the drive that's already a TiVo drive and wouldn't show one for the drive that's not a TiVo drive yet.

If you happen to have occasion to take the 2TB drive out of the TiVo, I'd love to see the partition map for it.

pdisk -l /dev/sda

redirected to a text file should do it.


----------



## siratfus

Prepping myself for the idea that I may need to install a new hard drive. It is the TivoHD XL (TCD658000). 3 years ago I upgraded from 1tb to 2tb by following the bkdtv directions in this thread. I used a WD 2tb drive. The drive started to fail 6 months later. So the 2nd time around, I repaired it by cloning. I figure I didn't need to follow the steps again because I'm not expanding from a smaller drive. I'm going from 2tb to 2tb, so I figure cloning should work and it did. It's been 2 and half years, and I may need a new drive again. So my question to you guys is.. Do you guys think cloning again will work with some of these newer drives with intellipark?

I'll find out soon enough, but if someone have tried before and know for sure it does not work, please let me know. Thank you!

Also, what do you recommend and do you know of any success stories, or which to avoid among these 3?:

WD20EARX

WD20EURS

WDBAAY0020HNC-NRSN


----------



## unitron

siratfus said:


> Prepping myself for the idea that I may need to install a new hard drive. It is the TivoHD XL (TCD658000). 3 years ago I upgraded from 1tb to 2tb by following the bkdtv directions in this thread. I used a WD 2tb drive. The drive started to fail 6 months later. So the 2nd time around, I repaired it by cloning. I figure I didn't need to follow the steps again because I'm not expanding from a smaller drive. I'm going from 2tb to 2tb, so I figure cloning should work and it did. It's been 2 and half years, and I may need a new drive again. So my question to you guys is.. Do you guys think cloning again will work with some of these newer drives with intellipark?
> 
> I'll find out soon enough, but if someone have tried before and know for sure it does not work, please let me know. Thank you!
> 
> Also, what do you recommend and do you know of any success stories, or which to avoid among these 3?:
> 
> WD20EARX
> 
> WD20EURS
> 
> WDBAAY0020HNC-NRSN


After you run the long test from the WD diagnostic software on the new drive, run

wdidle3

to disable Intellipark or set the timer to something really long, like 300 seconds.

The first drive on your list I'd avoid, since the model number ends in X, and we keep seeing people have trouble with those in TiVos.

The second one, the EURS, seems to have been used successfully by a number of people here.

The third one is problematic because you don't know what WD is actually going to put in the box.

At one time it would have been a non-advanced format WD20EADS, which would be fine (I've been running one in a TCD652160 for about 10 months now with no problems, and I'm running 3 more in computers to hold off-laoded TiVo recordings), and that's the model Amazon is showing in the pictures, but if you get it be prepared for it to be who knows what, perhaps an advanced format WD20EACS with 16MB of cache or an advanced format WD20EARS with 64MB of cache, which some people here have reported success with, or some other model number entirely.

Also I see the price on the WDBAAY0020HNC-NRSN is starting to climb back up again.

I would avoid WD drives which are both AF and 6Gb/s instead of 3Gb/s in favor of older models.

Since they offer a 3 year warranty on the EURS, just like the retail box models, that's probably your safest bet at this point.

You'll know in advance what you're getting.

Assuming they haven't changed the published specs and kept the old model number like they did with the 1TB WD10EADS.


----------



## tkoyn

unitron said:


> I would avoid WD drives which are both AF and 6Gb/s instead of 3Gb/s in favor of older models.


what about a Hitachi drive that is not AF, but is 6gb/s?

http://www.hgst.com/deskstar-7k3000


----------



## dlfl

tkoyn said:


> what about a Hitachi drive that is not AF, but is 6gb/s?
> 
> http://www.hgst.com/deskstar-7k3000


Look at Lussie's post #8737 in this thread.
The Hitachi drive he used is described as 6 GB/sec by Amazon.com. 
http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-Desks...id=1347288429&sr=8-1&keywords=hitachi+0S02861
However pinning down HDD models and specs does get tricky. And Lussie's upgrade situation may not apply to you. Some drives have a jumper that will make them 3 GB/sec. Research your selection on the WD/Hitachi website. Unfortunately, at this time choosing a drive for upgrading a TiVo has become "a crap shoot" thanks to WD introducing AF, as mentioned in an earlier post.

Sure would like to know how the "plug-in" drive sellers (weaknees.com and DVR_DUDE) are handing AF and I'm wondering if they really ARE handling it.


----------



## unitron

tkoyn said:


> what about a Hitachi drive that is not AF, but is 6gb/s?
> 
> http://www.hgst.com/deskstar-7k3000


Don't know enough about it to say one way or the other.

I think I saw someone mention a 1TB or 2TB Hitachi around here (i.e., tivocommunity.com/somewhereinallthedifferentforums), but I can't remember if they were saying nice things or not, so I'll let you search the entire site for a few hours.


----------



## dlfl

dlfl said:


> ........ Unfortunately, at this time choosing a drive for upgrading a TiVo has become "a crap shoot" thanks to WD introducing AF, as mentioned in an earlier post.
> 
> Sure would like to know how the "plug-in" drive sellers (weaknees.com and DVR_DUDE) are handing AF and I'm wondering if they really ARE handling it.


I will add: If I had to upgrade right now I would probably get one of the "plug-in" drives due to the uncertainty about choosing a DIY drive. At least that way you have a warranty if it doesn't work out.


----------



## siratfus

I got the WD20EURS. Over 12 hours wasted cause the freaking PC restarted during my cloning process. Probably a windows update or virus scan, and then it automatically restarted. Is there a way to prevent this from happening? It's probably one of those pop ups that asked me to restart or postpone, and I wasn't by the computer. I knew it was too good to be true when I woke up to see it finished this morning.


----------



## lpwcomp

siratfus said:


> I got the WD20EURS. Over 12 hours wasted cause the freaking PC restarted during my cloning process. Probably a windows update or virus scan, and then it automatically restarted. Is there a way to prevent this from happening? It's probably one of those pop ups that asked me to restart or postpone, and I wasn't by the computer. I knew it was too good to be true when I woke up to see it finished this morning.


Don't use Windows to do the cloning.


----------



## siratfus

lpwcomp said:


> Don't use Windows to do the cloning.


I was successful with windows last time. This gave me a chance to go back into the drive and delete more stuff so the whole process can be faster. Tivo just doesn't make it easy for you to delete stuff. Especially in my situation when the drive is failing and there is major lag. Deleting is a pain in the you know what. Wish you can check ALL and permanently delete all at once, or uncheck the ones you want to keep/recover. I've disabled everything in windows now.. the updates, the virus schedule, etc.

When you say don't use windows, you mean use mac? I do have a little macbook air, but the thing has one fan and gets hot easily. Don't want to risk burning my mac.


----------



## lpwcomp

siratfus said:


> I was successful with windows last time. This gave me a chance to go back into the drive and delete more stuff so the whole process can be faster. Tivo just doesn't make it easy for you to delete stuff. Especially in my situation when the drive is failing and there is major lag. Deleting is a pain in the you know what. Wish you can check ALL and permanently delete all at once, or uncheck the ones you want to keep/recover. I've disabled everything in windows now.. the updates, the virus schedule, etc.
> 
> When you say don't use windows, you mean use mac? I do have a little macbook air, but the thing has one fan and gets hot easily. Don't want to risk burning my mac.


No, I mean use JMFS or MFSLive or any bootable Linux disk that has a bit for bit copy capability.


----------



## siratfus

lpwcomp said:


> No, I mean use JMFS or MFSLive or any bootable Linux disk that has a bit for bit copy capability.


I've seen the JMFS discussion, two concerns:

1. Seems to be for premiere? I have a tivoHD XL.
2. Instructions are about expanding, going from small to large. Would I be able to go from 2tb to 2tb?
3. Is it faster?


----------



## lpwcomp

siratfus said:


> I've seen the JMFS discussion, two concerns:
> 
> 1. Seems to be for premiere? I have a tivoHD XL.
> 2. Instructions are about expanding, going from small to large. Would I be able to go from 2tb to 2tb?
> 3. Is it faster?


JMFS was developed for the Premiere but can be used tp expand a TiVo HD or HD XL. Instructions are here.

But that's not really what I was talking about. I was saying to boot a Linux disk (both JMFS and MFSLive are such) and use a dd command to clone the drive. That will eliminate the problem you think you had with Windows booting to install a fix.


----------



## Teeps

lpwcomp said:


> But that's not really what I was talking about. I was saying to boot a Linux disk and use a dd command to clone the drive. That will eliminate the problem you think you had with Windows booting to install a fix.


Good :up: adivce.
Every TiVo drive that I have replaced; dd command was used...
I go back to S1 days when a windows option was not available.
I have never been comfortable with connecting a TiVo drive to my PC with a windows drive...

dd command is not the most elegant but it works; works every time.


----------



## TysonL

unitron said:


> The
> 
> -q
> 
> isn't necessary, it just hides what's going on (stands for quiet mode)
> 
> fdisk -l
> 
> would show you some things about the drives, and I think that includes size.
> 
> pdisk -l
> 
> would show you the partition map for the drive that's already a TiVo drive and wouldn't show one for the drive that's not a TiVo drive yet.
> 
> If you happen to have occasion to take the 2TB drive out of the TiVo, I'd love to see the partition map for it.
> 
> pdisk -l /dev/sda
> 
> redirected to a text file should do it.


I don't expect to have the drive pulled again. I didn't run the command you listed, but I did save the output of the mfsinfo /dev/sda command for both the old and the new drive.

This (below) is from the new 2G drive after copy and mfsadd.

Don't know if this contains the info you were looking for.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Super Header
state=0 magic=ebbafeed
devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13 /dev/hda14 /dev/hda15
zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=3904364544
---------------------------------------------------------------------
MFS volume set for /dev/sda
The MFS volume set contains 6 partitions
Partition sectors size
/dev/sda10 589824 288 MiB
/dev/sda11 137629696 67202 MiB
/dev/sda12 589824 288 MiB
/dev/sda13 171919360 83945 MiB
/dev/sda14 2048 1 MiB
/dev/sda15 3593633792 1754704 MiB
Total MFS sectors: -390602752d
Total MFS volume size: 1906428 MiB
Estimated hours in a standalone TiVo: 2379
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Zone Maps 
Zone 0: type=0 
map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=589822
next_map_start=263266 next_map_size=6 next_backup_map_start=589816
zone_first=1122 zone_last=263265 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144 
free=262144 checksum=2400359062 logstamp=5973039 num_bitmap=1
Zone 1: type=2 
map_start=263266 map_size=6 backup_map_start=589816
next_map_start=263272 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589782
zone_first=589824 zone_last=138215423 zone_size=137625600 min(chunk)=20480 
free=61808640 checksum=626985703 logstamp=6607302 num_bitmap=14
Zone 2: type=1 
map_start=263272 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589782
next_map_start=138219520 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=138809343
zone_first=263306 zone_last=589777 zone_size=326472 min(chunk)=8 
free=204320 checksum=4089559378 logstamp=6607302 num_bitmap=17
Zone 3: type=0 
map_start=138219520 map_size=1 backup_map_start=138809343
next_map_start=138481665 next_map_size=10 next_backup_map_start=138809333
zone_first=138219521 zone_last=138481664 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144 
free=262144 checksum=2874637398 logstamp=5973039 num_bitmap=1
Zone 4: type=2 
map_start=138481665 map_size=10 backup_map_start=138809333
next_map_start=138481675 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=138809299
zone_first=138809344 zone_last=310718463 zone_size=171909120 min(chunk)=20480 
free=79298560 checksum=1125163402 logstamp=6607302 num_bitmap=15
Zone 5: type=1 
map_start=138481675 map_size=34 backup_map_start=138809299
next_map_start=310728705 next_map_size=66 next_backup_map_start=310730685
zone_first=138481709 zone_last=138809292 zone_size=327584 min(chunk)=8 
free=313872 checksum=3171754163 logstamp=6606487 num_bitmap=17
Zone 6: type=2 
map_start=310728705 map_size=66 backup_map_start=310730685
next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=0
zone_first=310730752 zone_last=3904364543 zone_size=3593633792 min(chunk)=32768 
free=3593633792 checksum=3746675571 logstamp=0 num_bitmap=18
Total Inodes = 262144
This MFS volume may be expanded 3 more times
---------------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## unitron

TysonL said:


> I don't expect to have the drive pulled again. I didn't run the command you listed, but I did save the output of the mfsinfo /dev/sda command for both the old and the new drive.
> 
> This (below) is from the new 2G drive after copy and mfsadd.
> 
> Don't know if this contains the info you were looking for.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Super Header
> state=0 magic=ebbafeed
> devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13 /dev/hda14 /dev/hda15
> zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=3904364544
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> MFS volume set for /dev/sda
> The MFS volume set contains 6 partitions
> Partition sectors size
> /dev/sda10 589824 288 MiB
> /dev/sda11 137629696 67202 MiB
> /dev/sda12 589824 288 MiB
> /dev/sda13 171919360 83945 MiB
> /dev/sda14 2048 1 MiB
> /dev/sda15 3593633792 1754704 MiB
> Total MFS sectors: -390602752d
> Total MFS volume size: 1906428 MiB
> Estimated hours in a standalone TiVo: 2379
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Zone Maps
> Zone 0: type=0
> map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=589822
> next_map_start=263266 next_map_size=6 next_backup_map_start=589816
> zone_first=1122 zone_last=263265 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
> free=262144 checksum=2400359062 logstamp=5973039 num_bitmap=1
> Zone 1: type=2
> map_start=263266 map_size=6 backup_map_start=589816
> next_map_start=263272 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589782
> zone_first=589824 zone_last=138215423 zone_size=137625600 min(chunk)=20480
> free=61808640 checksum=626985703 logstamp=6607302 num_bitmap=14
> Zone 2: type=1
> map_start=263272 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589782
> next_map_start=138219520 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=138809343
> zone_first=263306 zone_last=589777 zone_size=326472 min(chunk)=8
> free=204320 checksum=4089559378 logstamp=6607302 num_bitmap=17
> Zone 3: type=0
> map_start=138219520 map_size=1 backup_map_start=138809343
> next_map_start=138481665 next_map_size=10 next_backup_map_start=138809333
> zone_first=138219521 zone_last=138481664 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
> free=262144 checksum=2874637398 logstamp=5973039 num_bitmap=1
> Zone 4: type=2
> map_start=138481665 map_size=10 backup_map_start=138809333
> next_map_start=138481675 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=138809299
> zone_first=138809344 zone_last=310718463 zone_size=171909120 min(chunk)=20480
> free=79298560 checksum=1125163402 logstamp=6607302 num_bitmap=15
> Zone 5: type=1
> map_start=138481675 map_size=34 backup_map_start=138809299
> next_map_start=310728705 next_map_size=66 next_backup_map_start=310730685
> zone_first=138481709 zone_last=138809292 zone_size=327584 min(chunk)=8
> free=313872 checksum=3171754163 logstamp=6606487 num_bitmap=17
> Zone 6: type=2
> map_start=310728705 map_size=66 backup_map_start=310730685
> next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=0
> zone_first=310730752 zone_last=3904364543 zone_size=3593633792 min(chunk)=32768
> free=3593633792 checksum=3746675571 logstamp=0 num_bitmap=18
> Total Inodes = 262144
> This MFS volume may be expanded 3 more times
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------


Don't believe the part about being able to be expanded 3 more times, that's a left over from the S1 and S2 two drives on one PATA/IDE cable days.

But, yeah, that answers my curiosity about how big that last partition is and if there was any space left over at the end (which would have shown up as an Apple Free Partition)


----------



## toy4x4

Alright, 

Replaced all the capacitors and still have pausing and tiling. This is even happening on a movie I transferred just now to the Tivo from my server.

So tomorrow I'll transfer the rest of my shows to the server via kttmg and yank the external. If I still have issues I may just take the external out of the case and clone the existing and put it in the box.


----------



## ThAbtO

toy4x4 said:


> Alright,
> 
> Replaced all the capacitors and still have pausing and tiling. This is even happening on a movie I transferred just now to the Tivo from my server.
> 
> So tomorrow I'll transfer the rest of my shows to the server via kttmg and yank the external. If I still have issues I may just take the external out of the case and clone the existing and put it in the box.


I think its the external that's starting to fail. I had my external failed and things such as FFx1 which usually feels like 3x normal speed was simply 1x with sound muted. I had since replaced the internal 160gb with a 1tb and it has been running for close to 2 yrs now.

I'd say 9 out of 10 externals fail within a few yrs.
Mine was about 3 yrs old.


----------



## dlfl

It still would be good to check the voltages from the PS:
Red 5V, Yellow 12V, Orange 3.3V, Black Ground. 
*Beware of shock hazard*.
Probe into back of connector where wires of all four colors plug into the main circuit board.


----------



## mattack

ThAbtO said:


> I think its the external that's starting to fail. I had my external failed and things such as FFx1 which usually feels like 3x normal speed was simply 1x with sound muted.


No, that's actually a common problem on digital channels.. There are other threads that discuss it. Basically, it's almost certainly unrelated. (I would think if you were getting tons of I/O errors for example, it would either FF jerkily, or you'd have lots of dropouts.. not a consistent 1x-without-sound.)


----------



## ThAbtO

mattack said:


> No, that's actually a common problem on digital channels.. There are other threads that discuss it. Basically, it's almost certainly unrelated. (I would think if you were getting tons of I/O errors for example, it would either FF jerkily, or you'd have lots of dropouts.. not a consistent 1x-without-sound.)


I haven't seen the problem again since my upgrade.


----------



## toy4x4

I'll check the voltages just to be sure.

External wise, I'm removing that next so we will see what happens after that.

Another quick question, on the first page it says a TCD648250B can't use a 2tb internal fully. The below ebay auction indicates/leads you to believe you can.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-TiVo-HD...DVRs_Hard_Drive_Recorders&hash=item1c1ec83453


----------



## steve614

toy4x4 said:


> Another quick question, on the first page it says a TCD648250B can't use a 2tb internal fully. The below ebay auction indicates/leads you to believe you can.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-TiVo-HD...DVRs_Hard_Drive_Recorders&hash=item1c1ec83453


At first, it was thought that the original Series 3 could not handle a 2TB drive as no one in the community was able to get one to work.
Then, vendors like Weaknees and DVR-Dude (e-bay) were able to figure it out and make them work. Once that happened, we knew it was possible but of course those guys weren't going to reveal their secret.

Until recently. IIRC, someone on this forum finally figured out how to make a 2TB hard drive work in a Series 3. I don't know which thread it is in, but I believe it involved a 2 copy process using a 1TB hard drive as a "middle man".


----------



## tvmaster2

can someone recommend a 1TB or smaller drive they have used recently in a Tivo HD? My original WD 160GB died completely, and it's instant cake time I guess.
I have been reading about something called AF on newer drives, and with Frys and Microcenter being the places I can grab a drive from today. it would be good to know what drive someone has recently used successfully.

thanks


----------



## unitron

steve614 said:


> At first, it was thought that the original Series 3 could not handle a 2TB drive as no one in the community was able to get one to work.
> Then, vendors like Weaknees and DVR-Dude (e-bay) were able to figure it out and make them work. Once that happened, we knew it was possible but of course those guys weren't going to reveal their secret.
> 
> Until recently. IIRC, someone on this forum finally figured out how to make a 2TB hard drive work in a Series 3. I don't know which thread it is in, but I believe it involved a 2 copy process using a 1TB hard drive as a "middle man".


The middleman approach was what I used to be able to have a larger swap partition and still be able to use jmfs on an S3 HD, not an original S3 (OLED).

Supposedly jmfs doesn't work on the original S3.

It is suspected that the most recent software update for all the S3s is responsible for breaking the 1TB barrier.

I remember one of the S3 upgraders doing some manual partition editing

____________________________________

Start reading here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9168233#post9168233

____________________________________

but I think another just went with either WinMFS or MFS Live, and wound up with an MFS partition lots bigger than 1TB.

____________________________________

and read through to the adventures of haidawei


----------



## unitron

tvmaster2 said:


> can someone recommend a 1TB or smaller drive they have used recently in a Tivo HD? My original WD 160GB died completely, and it's instant cake time I guess.
> I have been reading about something called AF on newer drives, and with Frys and Microcenter being the places I can grab a drive from today. it would be good to know what drive someone has recently used successfully.
> 
> thanks


No need for IC, I've got a link to an S3 HD image a few pages back--search my user name.

If we recommend a particular model number drive with which we've had success in the past, there's no guarantee anymore that what they're slapping that number on these days is actually the same drive.

I'm successfully using one of these

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152185&Tpk=hd103sj

in an S2 (with a SATA/IDE adapter since it's a SATA drive and the S2s were still PATA/IDE), so I wouldn't hesitate to use it in an S3, although if it were a 5400RPM instead of 7200 I'd like it better because of less heat.

Of course I bought it a year or so ago before Seagate bought out Samsung, so you might want to make sure that the one in the store, if you find one, looks like the picture newegg is still using. If it's very much different, or if the Seagate name is prominent on it, I have no idea what to say about it good or bad.

I'm successfully using a WD20EADS in an S3 HD, but to get one of those now you'd have to get the boxed version

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...ef=dp_return_1?ie=UTF8&n=172282&s=electronics

AND get one that's been on the shelf for a year or two for it to have been when WD was putting that model drive in that model box.

If it actually says 32MB cache on the wrap-around sticker on the right-hand side, that increases the odds tremendously.

Otherwise it might be a 16MB cache WD20EACS or a 64MB cache WD20EARS (both of which will probably work), but if it's not new old stock, it could easily be a newer model than any of those 3, and I have no idea what would or wouldn't work, although it's starting to look like the new WD models that end in X don't work.

(Some "AF" drives seem to work and some don't)

Can you go online to Frys and Microcenter and see what model 1TB, 1.5TB and 2TB drives they actually have in stock and post those model numbers real quick?

Maybe we can spot something to recommend or warn against.

Also, take note of how long the warranty period is on each one.


----------



## tvmaster2

unitron said:


> No need for IC, I've got a link to an S3 HD image a few pages back--search my user name.
> 
> If we recommend a particular model number drive with which we've had success in the past, there's no guarantee anymore that what they're slapping that number on these days is actually the same drive.
> 
> I'm successfully using one of these
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152185&Tpk=hd103sj
> 
> in an S2 (with a SATA/IDE adapter since it's a SATA drive and the S2s were still PATA/IDE), so I wouldn't hesitate to use it in an S3, although if it were a 5400RPM instead of 7200 I'd like it better because of less heat.
> 
> Of course I bought it a year or so ago before Seagate bought out Samsung, so you might want to make sure that the one in the store, if you find one, looks like the picture newegg is still using. If it's very much different, or if the Seagate name is prominent on it, I have no idea what to say about it good or bad.
> 
> I'm successfully using a WD20EADS in an S3 HD, but to get one of those now you'd have to get the boxed version
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...ef=dp_return_1?ie=UTF8&n=172282&s=electronics
> 
> AND get one that's been on the shelf for a year or two for it to have been when WD was putting that model drive in that model box.
> 
> If it actually says 32MB cache on the wrap-around sticker on the right-hand side, that increases the odds tremendously.
> 
> Otherwise it might be a 16MB cache WD20EACS or a 64MB cache WD20EARS (both of which will probably work), but if it's not new old stock, it could easily be a newer model than any of those 3, and I have no idea what would or wouldn't work, although it's starting to look like the new WD models that end in X don't work.
> 
> (Some "AF" drives seem to work and some don't)
> 
> Can you go online to Frys and Microcenter and see what model 1TB, 1.5TB and 2TB drives they actually have in stock and post those model numbers real quick?
> 
> Maybe we can spot something to recommend or warn against.
> 
> Also, take note of how long the warranty period is on each one.


a selection: http://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.aspx?N=4294945772+4294963207+127&sortby=pricelow


----------



## unitron

tvmaster2 said:


> a selection: http://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.aspx?N=4294945772+4294963207+127&sortby=pricelow


Not much of a selection, especially in 2TB drives.

Out of what they offer, this is the one on which I'd roll the dice:

http://www.microcenter.com/product/...Internal_A-V_Hard_Drive_WD10EURS_-_Bare_Drive

People here have reported success with the 20EURS, so maybe that means the 10EURS is a safe bet as well.

But what about Frys?

What have they got?


----------



## steve614

unitron said:


> I remember one of the S3 upgraders doing some manual partition editing
> 
> ____________________________________
> 
> Start reading here:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9168233#post9168233


Thanks. That's the one I remember seeing. He had an already upgraded 1TB hard drive that he copied to a 2TB using a 3rd party app to manipulate the partitions.

My point was that it is now possible for a user to upgrade his original S3 to 2TB without having to buy one preconfigured from Weaknees or DVR-Dude.

The process might not be ideal (upgrade original hard drive to 1TB, then use the process linked above to get to 2TB) but if it works, that takes the power away from Weaknees/DVR-Dude.


----------



## unitron

steve614 said:


> Thanks. That's the one I remember seeing. He had an already upgraded 1TB hard drive that he copied to a 2TB using a 3rd party app to manipulate the partitions.
> 
> My point was that it is now possible for a user to upgrade his original S3 to 2TB without having to buy one preconfigured from Weaknees or DVR-Dude.
> 
> The process might not be ideal (upgrade original hard drive to 1TB, then use the process linked above to get to 2TB) but if it works, that takes the power away from Weaknees/DVR-Dude.


They still have the power of being convenient, and providing a service for those with more money than time.

Actually, it looks like haidawei went the long way round but essentially got a truncated backup with the latest version of the TiVo OS for that model and restored it straight to a 2TB

(which gave him the same result as using

dd

or one of it's descendents, like

dd_rescue

to copy the original 250GB drive (with 14 partitions) to the 2TB),

and then just used WinMFS to expand into the rest of the space, no special tricks like hand-editing partitions needed.

So the magic must be in the most recent version of the TiVo OS for the Series 3s.

Which probably means you don't need jmfs for the S3 HD or HD XL anymore, either.

Although you still have to have it for S4s.


----------



## toy4x4

If I replace the drive with a 2tb from Ebay/Weaknees, does that require me to do something with the cable company/CableCard?


----------



## unitron

toy4x4 said:


> If I replace the drive with a 2tb from Ebay/Weaknees, does that require me to do something with the cable company/CableCard?


If you have one or more cable cards in your TiVo which have been paired with the cable company's equipment, the data about that is on the drive in the TiVo that was in the TiVo when the pairing was done.

It's not kept on the motherboard, it's kept on the hard drive.

If your cable company requires pairing your cable card(s), then if you put in a new drive you have to do it all over again.

Also with a new drive you have to run Guided Setup again.

And any recorded shows on the old drive will not be on the new drive, either.

Unless you work out an arrangement where you send your old drive in to whoever you're buying the new drive from and get them to copy it to the new drive before they do their expansion voodoo.


----------



## toy4x4

Thanks Unitron!

One last question. I removed the external drives and I have a few shows still on the Tivo. Does this mean most everything was on the external and those were the only ones on the internal? I assume they don't put parts of a show on both drives.

Right now it seems to operate pretty well without the external drive.

Ok, second last question. Can I get the official external drive and take the drive out of the case and use it internally?


----------



## toy4x4

Nope, not the external. seems even worse now.


----------



## unitron

toy4x4 said:


> Thanks Unitron!
> 
> One last question. I removed the external drives and I have a few shows still on the Tivo. Does this mean most everything was on the external and those were the only ones on the internal? I assume they don't put parts of a show on both drives.
> 
> Right now it seems to operate pretty well without the external drive.
> 
> Ok, second last question. Can I get the official external drive and take the drive out of the case and use it internally?


They do put parts of shows on both drives. Any and every individual show you record after hooking up an external gets part of itself recorded on the internal and part on the external.

It's some pointless procedure to keep the content providers happy.

And remember, the Now Playing list is like a table of contents at the front of a book. Just because it says something is on page 183 doesn't guarantee that someone hasn't come along and ripped out all of the pages from 100 on up.

Sometimes you can wind up with phantom entries in the NPL.

However, the shows recorded before the external was first connected should still be on the internal and available to watch.

Once an internal and external have been "divorced" and you've irrevocably lost your recordings, you can remove the actual drive from inside the external enclosure and, if there's nothing wrong with said actual drive, overwrite what's on it with a TiVo internal drive image, either by copying the freshly divorced internal or using a truncated image previously created, and use the former external as an internal. (although you should still run wdidle3 to make sure Intellipark is off or has a really long delay before it engages--like 300 seconds)


----------



## Teeps

toy4x4 said:


> If I replace the drive with a 2tb from Ebay/Weaknees, does that require me to do something with the cable company/CableCard?


Yes.
Unless you send the old drive to be copied to the new drive; the cable card(s) will have to be paired. For all intents it's a new TiVo, far as setup is concerned.
Same for Tuning Adapter, if in use.

When I called Time Warner to repair cards in my S3-OLED, after DVR_Dude 2tb upgrade. The agent, Barbara, asked if I had just upgraded my TiVo! About 15 minutes later; TiVo was back on line.


----------



## mrelectron

Recently I upgraded my TiVo TCD648250B from a 1TB up to a 2TB drive using a Western Digital model WD20EURS drive. This drive has been working fine for almost 2 months, so I decided to purchase a couple of spares for future needs. 

Since these drives were not going to be used for quite sometime, I thought I should test them before storing them. 

I downloaded and burned a copy of WD Data Lifeguard Diagnostic for DOS (CD) but I get the error Unable to locate the License Agreement file, DLGLICE.TXT.

After a little internet searching this error seems quite common and no solutions have been found and WD seems to ignore customers requests/complaints to fix this issue.

I have since found an alternative using the ultimate boot CD found at ultimatebootcd.com and was able to test both spare drives.

However I am curious what the TiVo community was using to test your new WD drives as (my understanding) I have read that you should not use the Windows version of Data Lifeguard for fear of Windows attaching a drive letter to the drive. 

I would appreciate any comments. 

Thanks


----------



## S3-2501

I don't know if it's what you're looking for, but the Windows version of the WD Data Lifeguard Diagnostics software available here includes the ability to run an "extended test" on connected drives to check for errors. According to the included help HTML file:


> For the EXTENDED TEST, if bad sectors are detected, a repair option will be provided to fix any correctable errors. However, data stored in the bad sectors will be lost, thus this function must be used very cautiously. WD also offers a DOS version of DLGDIAG, which provides a better repair function. It can be downloaded from WD web site and used to repair certain errors that are not correctable under Windows environment.


 So it sounds like the difference between the Windows and DOS versions is only in the ability to repair problems, not to detect them.

I know it's bad practice, but in my impatience to do each of my upgrades, I've never run the long test on my upgrade drives.

While I'm posting, I guess I might as well mention that I've also been running a WD20EURS in my OLED S3 for about two months now with no issues. In an earlier update I mentioned that the user interface (menus, etc.) seemed a bit more sluggish after the upgrade, but in the last few weeks either I've gotten used to the slower speed, or it's improved to the point where I don't really notice much of a difference anymore.


----------



## unitron

mrelectron said:


> Recently I upgraded my TiVo TCD648250B from a 1TB up to a 2TB drive using a Western Digital model WD20EURS drive. This drive has been working fine for almost 2 months, so I decided to purchase a couple of spares for future needs.
> 
> Since these drives were not going to be used for quite sometime, I thought I should test them before storing them.
> 
> I downloaded and burned a copy of WD Data Lifeguard Diagnostic for DOS (CD) but I get the error Unable to locate the License Agreement file, DLGLICE.TXT.
> 
> After a little internet searching this error seems quite common and no solutions have been found and WD seems to ignore customers requests/complaints to fix this issue.
> 
> I have since found an alternative using the ultimate boot CD found at ultimatebootcd.com and was able to test both spare drives.
> 
> However I am curious what the TiVo community was using to test your new WD drives as (my understanding) I have read that you should not use the Windows version of Data Lifeguard for fear of Windows attaching a drive letter to the drive.
> 
> I would appreciate any comments.
> 
> Thanks


If not for the plethora of hits on Google about others having the same problem I'd have said you just had a bad burn when you made your copy of WD's .iso, but it looks like the bad copy is on their servers.

I guess I'm fortunate to have downloaded it back when it wasn't screwed up.

Did you get my PM?


----------



## toy4x4

FYI, 

yanked the drive out of the newest External My Book and replaced the internal. It was a WD10EURX and said advanced format on it. I used WDIDLE3 and verified park was disabled.

So far so good! Thumbs Up!


----------



## L David Matheny

unitron said:


> If not for the plethora of hits on Google about others having the same problem I'd have said you just had a bad burn when you made your copy of WD's .iso, but it looks like the bad copy is on their servers.
> 
> I guess I'm fortunate to have downloaded it back when it wasn't screwed up.


I had to use the diskette version, which (as I recall) is a later revision, so maybe it's better anyway. I think somebody reported that the .ISO image version didn't support their drive, but the diskette version did. How hard is it to make a CD image from the diskette version?


----------



## mrelectron

Kudos goes out to unitron for not only his tireless efforts and valuable contributions here, but I did not realize how much he helps so many via PM (myself included) in understanding and educating concerning technical aspects of TiVo, particularly drive upgrades.

I hope I speak for most here, Thank you unitron.:up:

Carl.


----------



## toy4x4

mrelectron said:


> Kudos goes out to unitron for not only his tireless and valuable contributions here, but I did not realize how much he helps some many via PM (myself included) in understanding and educating concerning technical aspects of TiVo, particularly drive upgrades.
> 
> Im hope I speak for most here, Thank you unitron.:up:
> 
> Carl.


+1 Thanks Unitron!


----------



## unitron

Aw, shucks, ma'am, twern't nothin'.


I'm just carrying on in the tradition of the much-missed richsadams.


----------



## mrelectron

unitron said:


> Aw, shucks, ma'am, twern't nothin'.
> 
> I'm just carrying on in the tradition of the much-missed richsadams.


+1 also to richadams, he is missed.


----------



## blacknoi

I wanted to post my experience here with my recent 2nd drive upgrade (my upgraded drive failed)



blacknoi said:


> My 3 year old 1TB Western Digital WD10EVDS (I think that was the model) just died in my tivoHD last week.
> 
> I just bought this one:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0042AG9V8/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00
> 
> Western Digital WD20EURS 2TB and got it working in my TivoHD (same as your model).
> 
> I just used winMFS and ended up getting 198 hours HD recording space. I know I sacrificed some of the drive space, but my family never even came close to filling up 157 hours of HD recording space, so getting bumped up to 198HD hours was just fine for me.
> 
> I had to use my *original* tivo drive to pull my image from. Even though the failing 1TB WD drive was still readable, and I was able to back it up, it still would make my tivo reboot over and over if I tried to put its image onto the new 2TB drive.
> 
> Long story short - success, but I lost all my season passes as my image on the original drive was 3 years old.
> 
> Also, I did NOT have to use wdidle3 with this drive. It boots, and soft-reboots just fine. No hanging.


----------



## unitron

mrelectron said:


> +1 also to richadams, he is missed.


Lest anyone be mislead, as far as I know Rich remains in good health and continues to enjoy his life, but somehow last fall someone or something here got him sufficiently ticked off to withdraw from further participation (although I think there's a Mac thread around here somewhere where he still hangs out).


----------



## A J Ricaud

unitron said:


> Lest anyone be mislead, as far as I know Rich remains in good health and continues to enjoy his life, but somehow last fall someone or something here got him sufficiently ticked off to withdraw from further participation (although I think there's a Mac thread around here somewhere where he still hangs out).


He's also on the iPad forum. Great guy.


----------



## TysonL

I know this ultimately is a personal decision, but ...

Does it make sense to buy a spare drive once successfully upgraded?

I just got a WD20EURS (from Amazon) running in my TivoHD.

I made a truncated backup of the original for future restore, but from the talk I see here I am a little scared in a few years that it may be hard to find a compatible drive.

The flip side is, the drives will just get cheaper, and sitting around for 3-4 years may have its own downside. And, that will put the entire unit at 8 years old ripe for other component failure.

And then there is the fact that the Tivo now gets used for Amazon and Netflix streaming more than its own recordings ... functions which the family is now switching to other boxes for since they have a nicer interface.

Seems I just answered my own question. For me, in 3-4 years Tivo will be a dead functionality for me, if not a dead company. If not, and they come around as a company and offer up features that are compelling, I will need new hardware anyway.


----------



## unitron

TysonL said:


> I know this ultimately is a personal decision, but ...
> 
> Does it make sense to buy a spare drive once successfully upgraded?
> 
> I just got a WD20EURS (from Amazon) running in my TivoHD.
> 
> I made a truncated backup of the original for future restore, but from the talk I see here I am a little scared in a few years that it may be hard to find a compatible drive.
> 
> The flip side is, the drives will just get cheaper, and sitting around for 3-4 years may have its own downside. And, that will put the entire unit at 8 years old ripe for other component failure.
> 
> And then there is the fact that the Tivo now gets used for Amazon and Netflix streaming more than its own recordings ... functions which the family is now switching to other boxes for since they have a nicer interface.
> 
> Seems I just answered my own question. For me, in 3-4 years Tivo will be a dead functionality for me, if not a dead company. If not, and they come around as a company and offer up features that are compelling, I will need new hardware anyway.


If I were you, and the HD were lifetimed, and I could spare the money, I'd get another EURS and use

dd_rescue

to "Xerox" the current drive to it, and put it in the HD and the current one on the shelf, just for insurance.


----------



## mrelectron

unitron said:


> If I were you, and the HD were lifetimed, and I could spare the money, I'd get another EURS and use
> 
> dd_rescue
> 
> to "Xerox" the current drive to it, and put it in the HD and the current one on the shelf, just for insurance.


I agree and I would make sure to test it before storing it. I actually purchased 2 spares and both were defective.


----------



## unitron

mrelectron said:


> I agree and I would make sure to test it before storing it. I actually purchased 2 spares and both were defective.


I was pre-supposing the running of the long test prior to putting the drive(s) into service.

Years ago, in an electronics servicing class, one of the best teachers I ever had used to leave faulty parts in the parts bin to teach us to test everything and trust nothing until we had.


----------



## mrelectron

unitron said:


> I was pre-supposing the running of the long test prior to putting the drive(s) into service.
> 
> Years ago, in an electronics servicing class, one of the best teachers I ever had used to leave faulty parts in the parts bin to teach us to test everything and trust nothing until we had.


Ah assumption, your teacher did you a huge favor. This not only applies to electronics pieces/parts, but life in general.


----------



## tvmaster2

OK, after a week of research lol ...

here are a few drives to choose between - if anyone is using them succesfully or not, please comment. With the WD drives, the AF thing has me a bit confused with regards to if it is disabled, will it have negative repercussions on the drive down the road? 
With the Seagate drives, volume seems to be the biggest hurdle for some.

Barracuda 1TB 7,200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive ST3100005N1A1AS
(which is likely a ST31000528AS)

Caviar Green 1TB IntelliPower SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive WD10EZRX - OEM

Caviar Green 1TB IntelliPower SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive WDBAAY0010HNC
(labeled as a WD10EARS) - I can't find any info if this one is "Advanced Format" - so is that good?

AV-GP 1TB SATA 3Gb/s 3.5" Internal A/V Hard Drive WD10EURS - Bare Drive

In a TiVo HD - is 6GB/s pointless? What about 7200rpm? The WD160 drive that has failed is 7200rpm, which I was surprised at.

I'd like to cap storage at 1TB - otherwise...I'll never erase stuff 

Thanks


----------



## unitron

tvmaster2 said:


> OK, after a week of research lol ...
> 
> here are a few drives to choose between - if anyone is using them succesfully or not, please comment. With the WD drives, the AF thing has me a bit confused with regards to if it is disabled, will it have negative repercussions on the drive down the road?
> With the Seagate drives, volume seems to be the biggest hurdle for some.
> 
> Barracuda 1TB 7,200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive ST3100005N1A1AS
> (which is likely a ST31000528AS)
> 
> Caviar Green 1TB IntelliPower SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive WD10EZRX - OEM
> 
> Caviar Green 1TB IntelliPower SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive WDBAAY0010HNC
> (labeled as a WD10EARS)
> 
> AV-GP 1TB SATA 3Gb/s 3.5" Internal A/V Hard Drive WD10EURS - Bare Drive
> 
> In a TiVo HD - is 6GB/s pointless? What about 7200rpm? The WD160 drive that has failed is 7200rpm, which I was surprised at.
> 
> I'd like to cap storage at 1TB - otherwise...I'll never erase stuff
> 
> Thanks


IF that's actually a 10EARS in that box, it'll probably work, as people have successfully used the 20EARS. (apparently it's an early AF model that could still fake 512)

People have successfully used the 20EURS, so a 10EURS should work as well.

The 6Gb/s probably is pointless. 5400RPM is probably fast enough.

I'm currently using a WD20EADS in an HD and it works just fine--it's 3Gb/s and 5400

Recently read that the 10EADS is now being made (or refurbed, perhaps) as a AF drive, so can't recommend one unless you can see the label on the drive before you buy it.


----------



## tvmaster2

unitron said:


> IF that's actually a 10EARS in that box, it'll probably work, as people have successfully used the 20EARS. (apparently it's an early AF model that could still fake 512)
> 
> People have successfully used the 20EURS, so a 10EURS should work as well.
> 
> The 6Gb/s probably is pointless. 5400RPM is probably fast enough.
> 
> I'm currently using a WD20EADS in an HD and it works just fine--it's 3Gb/s and 5400
> 
> Recently read that the 10EADS is now being made (or refurbed, perhaps) as a AF drive, so can't recommend one unless you can see the label on the drive before you buy it.


OK thanks - it looks like the EURS has already had acoustics set to quietest level, otherwise, I can't see a difference from the EARS - although the warranty may be longer. I will go with the longer warranty


----------



## unitron

tvmaster2 said:


> OK thanks - it looks like the EURS has already had acoustics set to quietest level, otherwise, I can't see a difference from the EARS - although the warranty may be longer. I will go with the longer warranty


The EURS is intended to be a 24/7 AV drive.


----------



## tvmaster2

Hi there - I want to replace my Tivo HD 652160 drive completely...no backup, just drop in a new drive and start fresh.
What's the best way to go if that's the case...InstantCake, MFSLive or WinMFS?


----------



## ThAbtO

tvmaster2 said:


> Hi there - I want to replace my Tivo HD 652160 drive completely...no backup, just drop in a new drive and start fresh.
> What's the best way to go if that's the case...InstantCake, MFSLive or WinMFS?


Easiest? If you use Windows, WinMFS. MFSLive you would have to burn a CD and boot from it and type linux commands. Instantcake is not viable and out of date.


----------



## tvmaster2

ThAbtO said:


> Easiest? If you use Windows, WinMFS. MFSLive you would have to burn a CD and boot from it and type linux commands. Instantcake is not viable and out of date.


InstantCake is out of date? I entered my Tivo info on their site in the drop down menu's and it came up with software version 9.2
Is that not correct?
The last version of WinMFS I can find on their site is from Nov 2008


----------



## ThAbtO

tvmaster2 said:


> InstantCake is out of date? I entered my Tivo info on their site in the drop down menu's and it came up with software version 9.2
> Is that not correct?
> The last version of WinMFS I can find on their site is from Nov 2008


I used WinMFS 2 yrs ago on my Tivo HD and its still running strong.
Instantcake is older, and last I heard, they raised their price, think it went to $60


----------



## tvmaster2

ThAbtO said:


> I used WinMFS 2 yrs ago on my Tivo HD and its still running strong.
> Instantcake is older, and last I heard, they raised their price, think it went to $60


OK, great. I do NOT have my original Tivo drive, as it gave up the ghost....WinMFS doesn't need the orginal drive - correct?


----------



## unitron

tvmaster2 said:


> Hi there - I want to replace my Tivo HD 652160 drive completely...no backup, just drop in a new drive and start fresh.
> What's the best way to go if that's the case...InstantCake, MFSLive or WinMFS?


I know a little about drive replacement in that model.

Is there anything wrong with the drive in that TiVo now?

Other than being too small, perhaps?

What size drive did you have in mind to replace it?


----------



## ThAbtO

tvmaster2 said:


> OK, great. I do NOT have my original Tivo drive, as it gave up the ghost....WinMFS doesn't need the orginal drive - correct?


It could use a backup .tbk file.


----------



## tvmaster2

unitron said:


> I know a little about drive replacement in that model.
> 
> Is there anything wrong with the drive in that TiVo now?
> 
> Other than being too small, perhaps?
> 
> What size drive did you have in mind to replace it?


It died - capput - no booting and failed tests using WD drive check, so my intention is to create a completely new drive


----------



## tvmaster2

ThAbtO said:


> It could use a backup .tbk file.


sorry, I don't understand. What is "it"?, and I have no backup file.


----------



## ThAbtO

tvmaster2 said:


> sorry, I don't understand. What is "it"?, and I have no backup file.


Its a WinMFS backup file of a Tivo drive.


----------



## unitron

tvmaster2 said:


> sorry, I don't understand. What is "it"?, and I have no backup file.


If you search the "Need an image, don't PM me" thread for my user name, you'll find a post with images for the TCD652160.

The one with the .bak file name extension is for use with the MFS Live cd (a copy of which you should burn, as an image, for yourself even if you don't have a TiVo).

The one with the .tbk extension is for use with the WinMFS program.

The size of replacement drive you select may dictate just how we go about putting the image on it and expanding into the unused space.


----------



## steve614

tvmaster2 said:


> sorry, I don't understand. What is "it"?, and I have no backup file.


That's okay, we got you covered. 

Search this thread with your Tivo model in the key words blank and unitron in the posts by user blank.
You should be able to find both, a .tbk image file and a .bak image file.
Use WinMFS or the MFS Live CD to put the appropriate image on the new hard drive.
The .tbk image is for use with WinMFS and the .bak image is for the MFS LiveCD.

IIRC, you can't use a hard drive larger than 1TB (the TiVo will not see the extra space), and when you put the new drive in the Tivo you will have to perform a Clear & Delete Everything once the Tivo boots up.

If you are already familiar with WinMFS/MFS Live CD, this will be easy-peasy.

Edit:
Obvious I type really slow. 
(Plus I had to make sure my link worked and my info was accurate. )


----------



## tvmaster2

unitron said:


> If you search the "Need an image, don't PM me" thread for my user name, you'll find a post with images for the TCD652160.
> 
> The one with the .bak file name extension is for use with the MFS Live cd (a copy of which you should burn, as an image, for yourself even if you don't have a TiVo).
> 
> The one with the .tbk extension is for use with the WinMFS program.
> 
> The size of replacement drive you select may dictate just how we go about putting the image on it and expanding into the unused space.


brilliant - thanks  - but can you expand on the "expanding" reference? I am replacing the stock 160GB drive with a 1TB


----------



## ThAbtO

tvmaster2 said:


> OK, great. I do NOT have my original Tivo drive, as it gave up the ghost....WinMFS doesn't need the orginal drive - correct?


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8831301#post8831301

Just to save you the time in searching.


----------



## ThAbtO

unitron said:


> If you search the "Need an image, don't PM me" thread for my user name, you'll find a post with images for the TCD652160.
> 
> The one with the .bak file name extension is for use with the MFS Live cd (a copy of which you should burn, as an image, for yourself even if you don't have a TiVo).
> 
> The one with the .tbk extension is for use with the WinMFS program.
> 
> The size of replacement drive you select may dictate just how we go about putting the image on it and expanding into the unused space.


As I was searching in that thread, I found a link for an image of 540040, is it the same for 540080?


----------



## tvmaster2

steve614 said:


> That's okay, we got you covered.
> 
> Search this thread with your Tivo model in the key words blank and unitron in the posts by user blank.
> You should be able to find both, a .tbk image file and a .bak image file.
> Use WinMFS or the MFS Live CD to put the appropriate image on the new hard drive.
> The .tbk image is for use with WinMFS and the .bak image is for the MFS LiveCD.
> 
> IIRC, you can't use a hard drive larger than 1TB (the TiVo will not see the extra space), and when you put the new drive in the Tivo you will have to perform a Clear & Delete Everything once the Tivo boots up.
> 
> If you are already familiar with WinMFS/MFS Live CD, this will be easy-peasy.
> 
> Edit:
> Obvious I type really slow.
> (Plus I had to make sure my link worked and my info was accurate. )


I am using a 1TB drive to restore the .tbk image to. You can either restore "tivo drive", "bootpage", or "Kernal". I assume Tivo Drive?
Edit - OK, it would appear the be "Tivo Drive". I get and error message however: "Error writing media inode 1", and then the process halts


----------



## unitron

tvmaster2 said:


> I am using a 1TB drive to restore the .tbk image to. You can either restore "tivo drive", "bootpage", or "Kernal". I assume Tivo Drive?
> Edit - OK, it would appear the be "Tivo Drive". I get and error message however: "Error writing media inode 1", and then the process halts


Is that a brand new drive?

Did you run the manufacturer's long test on it first?


----------



## tvmaster2

unitron said:


> Is that a brand new drive?
> 
> Did you run the manufacturer's long test on it first?


Actually, I am running a test with a used 750gb drive I have as a spare. Is that the sign of bad clusters? I can run a long test


----------



## unitron

tvmaster2 said:


> Actually, I am running a test with a used 750gb drive I have as a spare. Is that the sign of bad clusters? I can run a long test


What brand and model is that 750?


----------



## tvmaster2

unitron said:


> What brand and model is that 750?


seagate ST3750640AS I believe - it has been used here by others, it may be a little loud for some


----------



## unitron

tvmaster2 said:


> seagate ST750640AS I believe - it has been used here by others, it may be a little loud for some


The latest version of the Ultimate Boot CD has the Seagate diagnostic software (and all sorts of other useful stuff).

First you test the drive to make sure there's nothing wrong with it.

Then you use it to test other stuff.


----------



## tvmaster2

unitron said:


> The latest version of the Ultimate Boot CD has the Seagate diagnostic software (and all sorts of other useful stuff).
> 
> First you test the drive to make sure there's nothing wrong with it.
> 
> Then you use it to test other stuff.


ok, the Seagate passed everything but the long-fix test, so I threw the new 10EURS in, and everything worked fine. I was ask if I wanted to "expand" the extra space, to which I answered "yes". At this point, just pull the drive and put it back into the TiVo? P.S. - I never did a Windows format - just hooked up the new WD drive and used the .tbk file

pss - I DIDN'T run WDidle (or whatever it's called) with the EURS. How would I know if that's necessary do you think?


----------



## unitron

tvmaster2 said:


> ok, the Seagate passed everything but the long-fix test, so I threw the new 10EURS in, and everything worked fine. I was ask if I wanted to "expand" the extra space, to which I answered "yes". At this point, just pull the drive and put it back into the TiVo? P.S. - I never did a Windows format - just hooked up the new WD drive and used the .tbk file
> 
> pss - I DIDN'T run WDidle (or whatever it's called) with the EURS. How would I know if that's necessary do you think?


The way you find out if you need to run wdidle3 is to run it and see if it will let you do anything.

Where did you buy your 10EURS, how much, and does it say anything on the label about advanced format?

Did you run the WD long test on the 10EURS before putting it into service?


----------



## tvmaster2

unitron said:


> The way you find out if you need to run wdidle3 is to run it and see if it will let you do anything.
> 
> Where did you buy your 10EURS, how much, and does it say anything on the label about advanced format?
> 
> Did you run the WD long test on the 10EURS before putting it into service?


haven't run it yet

microcenter, and it IS AF on the label

didn't run the long test - it's a brand new drive. What will that determine?

Is WDidle used BEFORE or AFTER using your .tbk file?


----------



## tvmaster2

toy4x4 said:


> FYI,
> 
> yanked the drive out of the newest External My Book and replaced the internal. It was a WD10EURX and said advanced format on it. I used WDIDLE3 and verified park was disabled.
> 
> So far so good! Thumbs Up!


hi there - I am trying to figure out the same thing with a WD10EURS drive. if WDidle3 reports "Idle3 Timer disabled", is that the drive state I am looking for?
thanks


----------



## unitron

tvmaster2 said:


> haven't run it yet
> 
> microcenter, and it IS AF on the label
> 
> didn't run the long test - it's a brand new drive. What will that determine?
> 
> Is WDidle used BEFORE or AFTER using your .tbk file?


wdidle3 works at a level underneath any software which has been copied to the drive, so it can be run at any time, but I'm pretty sure the drive has to be connected directly to the controller on the computer motherboard.

It doesn't mess with what's on the discs, it messes with the firmware on the chips on the circuit board on the bottom of the drive that control how it works.

The reason to run it is to disable Intellipark, either by turning it off, or by setting the time before it turns itself on to a long enough period that it's the same as disabling it as far as TiVo use is concerned.

Otherwise, it could interfere with the TiVo's ability to reboot itself, which it sometimes has to do.

Some people doing drive size upgrades have reported that disabling Intellipark made the difference in whether the TiVo would even boot up at all when first plugged in.

The reason to run the long WD diagnostic on a brand new drive is to be as sure as possible that there's nothing wrong with the drive before spending any time copying to it and installing it in anything, or if not for a TiVo, installing it in a computer and partitioning and formatting it and putting data on it.

Just because it was good when it left the factory (and I wouldn't even count on that these days), you don't know to what it was subjected during the various shippings it underwent.


----------



## unitron

tvmaster2 said:


> hi there - I am trying to figure out the same thing with a WD10EURS drive. if WDidle3 reports "Idle3 Timer disabled", is that the drive state I am looking for?
> thanks


Disabled is good.

For a TiVo drive.

If you ever run across a WD Green where you can't actually disable it, you can set the inactivity before it kicks in time period to 300 seconds (5 minutes), and that'll achieve the same goal.


----------



## tvmaster2

unitron said:


> Disabled is good.
> 
> For a TiVo drive.
> 
> If you ever run across a WD Green where you can't actually disable it, you can set the inactivity before it kicks in time period to 300 seconds (5 minutes), and that'll achieve the same goal.


great - thanks. just running the long test now. what does "expanding" the drive space do in WinMFS? I may have read somewhere it grabs some extra space on the drive (15 minutes worth) for use, but that the extra space is good to have for Tivo when it wants some space to run routines of some kind...any thoughts there?


----------



## unitron

tvmaster2 said:


> great - thanks. just running the long test now. what does "expanding" the drive space do in WinMFS? I may have read somewhere it grabs some extra space on the drive (15 minutes worth) for use, but that the extra space is good to have for Tivo when it wants some space to run routines of some kind...any thoughts there?


You're confusing expanding with supersize-ing.

The stock drive for an S3 HD is 160GB.

Once you copy those 13 partitions to a larger drive, you have space left at the end.

It will show up in the Apple Partition Map (which is the first partition, or is contained in the first partition) as partition 14 and will be called an Apple Free Partition.

That's right, the unpartitioned space is a partition. Go figure.

The expand option in MFS Live and WinMFS (mfsadd) works by adding a third MFS pair, the much larger of which will be an MFS Media partition.

These two partitions will be placed where the Apple Free partition was, so now you'll have a total of 15 partitions.

If the drive is smaller than 2TB, and WinMFS used all of the extra space for the third MFS pair, so that there is no Apple Free partition of any size at the end of the drive, you can use jmfs to copy that drive to a 2TB, and then it will add a single MFS Media partition in the extra space on the 2TB drive, which will give you a total of 16 partitions, which is the limit for a single TiVo drive.

(if you originally went from the 160 to say a 1TB drive using the MFS Live cd, it'll work fine, but expanding by adding the third MFS pair--partitions 14 and 15--might not use all of the space, and you wind up with a 16th Apple Free partition of a few MB or more, and jmfs will see this as a valid partion and copy it over to a larger drive, and when it adds a partition it'll be partition 17, and the TiVo will interpret this as a bad external drive and make you divorce it, so you won't get the extra space after all)

Supersizing rewrites a little of the TiVo software to tell it not to hold in reserve the space it otherwise holds in reserve to record the paid stuff in the middle of the night which is the advertising and showcases with which it clutters the menus. So that extra space is now available for what you want to record.

jmfs can do this re-write on the Premiere drives for which it was developed, but for S3 HD and HD XL models you should use the supersize function of WinMFS.

That jmfs works on the later S3 models was a happy accident. It was only developed with the Premiere in mind.


----------



## tvmaster2

unitron said:


> You're confusing expanding with supersize-ing.
> 
> The stock drive for an S3 HD is 160GB.
> 
> Once you copy those 13 partitions to a larger drive, you have space left at the end.
> 
> It will show up in the Apple Partition Map (which is the first partition, or is contained in the first partition) as partition 14 and will be called an Apple Free Partition.
> 
> That's right, the unpartitioned space is a partition. Go figure.
> 
> The expand option in MFS Live and WinMFS (mfsadd) works by adding a third MFS pair, the much larger of which will be an MFS Media partition.
> 
> These two partitions will be placed where the Apple Free partition was, so now you'll have a total of 15 partitions.
> 
> If the drive is smaller than 2TB, and WinMFS used all of the extra space for the third MFS pair, so that there is no Apple Free partition of any size at the end of the drive, you can use jmfs to copy that drive to a 2TB, and then it will add a single MFS Media partition in the extra space on the 2TB drive, which will give you a total of 16 partitions, which is the limit for a single TiVo drive.
> 
> (if you originally went from the 160 to say a 1TB drive using the MFS Live cd, it'll work fine, but expanding by adding the third MFS pair--partitions 14 and 15--might not use all of the space, and you wind up with a 16th Apple Free partition of a few MB or more, and jmfs will see this as a valid partion and copy it over to a larger drive, and when it adds a partition it'll be partition 17, and the TiVo will interpret this as a bad external drive and make you divorce it, so you won't get the extra space after all)
> 
> Supersizing rewrites a little of the TiVo software to tell it not to hold in reserve the space it otherwise holds in reserve to record the paid stuff in the middle of the night which is the advertising and showcases with which it clutters the menus. So that extra space is now available for what you want to record.
> 
> jmfs can do this re-write on the Premiere drives for which it was developed, but for S3 HD and HD XL models you should use the supersize function of WinMFS.
> 
> That jmfs works on the later S3 models was a happy accident. It was only developed with the Premiere in mind.


as noted, the drive is a 1TB WD10EURS. I'll have to think about whether supersizing is necessary, as I likely won't fill this machine with programs


----------



## lpwcomp

unitron said:


> Supersizing rewrites a little of the TiVo software to tell it not to hold in reserve the space it otherwise holds in reserve to record the paid stuff in the middle of the night which is the advertising and showcases with which it clutters the menus. So that extra space is now available for what you want to record.


I don't believe that is entirely accurate. It simply *reduces* the amount of space so reserved. By default, the TiVo will reserve about 10% of the drive for this purpose, which is way more than is really necessary when using the larger drives available today.

To tvmaster2: On a 1TB drive, supersizing gives you @15 _*hours*_ of additional space, not 15 minutes.


----------



## unitron

lpwcomp said:


> I don't believe that is entirely accurate. It simply *reduces* the amount of space so reserved. By default, the TiVo will reserve about 10% of the drive for this purpose, which is way more than is really necessary when using the larger drives available today.
> 
> To tvmaster2: On a 1TB drive, supersizing gives you @15 _*hours*_ of additional space, not 15 minutes.


I stand corrected, and having been, will now proceed to sit down.


----------



## tvmaster2

lpwcomp said:


> I don't believe that is entirely accurate. It simply *reduces* the amount of space so reserved. By default, the TiVo will reserve about 10% of the drive for this purpose, which is way more than is really necessary when using the larger drives available today.
> 
> To tvmaster2: On a 1TB drive, supersizing gives you @15 _*hours*_ of additional space, not 15 minutes.


hi there - two questions for you: do you supersize before installing the new drive back in the Tivo, or can you do it at a later date.

two: which app do I use to supersize?

thanks


----------



## tvmaster2

unitron said:


> I stand corrected, and having been, will now proceed to sit down.


lol - you've been a big help on this, Unitron. The dead Tivo is back and running again thanks to your assistance!


----------



## lpwcomp

tvmaster2 said:


> hi there - two questions for you: do you supersize before installing the new drive back in the Tivo, or can you do it at a later date.


You can probably do it at a later date, but I do not know for sure. Normally, it would be done when you are first setting up the new drive, after the restore and expand.



tvmaster2 said:


> two: which app do I use to supersize?


In your case, WinMFS.


----------



## unitron

tvmaster2 said:


> hi there - two questions for you: do you supersize before installing the new drive back in the Tivo, or can you do it at a later date.
> 
> two: which app do I use to supersize?
> 
> thanks


On a Premiere, you use comer's jmfs to supersize.

On an S3 HD or HD XL, you use WinMFS to supersize.


----------



## tvmaster2

unitron said:


> On a Premiere, you use comer's jmfs to supersize.
> 
> On an S3 HD or HD XL, you use WinMFS to supersize.


before re-inserting drive into Tivo for the first time?


----------



## lpwcomp

tvmaster2 said:


> before re-inserting drive into Tivo for the first time?


Normally, yes.


----------



## tvmaster2

lpwcomp said:


> Normally, yes.


oops


----------



## unitron

tvmaster2 said:


> oops


You can do it later as well.


----------



## mrelectron

unitron said:


> The reason to run the long WD diagnostic on a brand new drive is to be as sure as possible that there's nothing wrong with the drive before spending any time copying to it and installing it in anything, or if not for a TiVo, installing it in a computer and partitioning and formatting it and putting data on it.
> 
> Just because it was good when it left the factory (and I wouldn't even count on that these days), you don't know to what it was subjected during the various shippings it underwent.


These two statements can not be emphasized enough. :up:
Don't induce more unknowns into an equation less you want to chase your preverbial tail.


----------



## tvmaster2

unitron said:


> You can do it later as well.


update: I use Cox cable card (M) in my TivoHD. Since the rebuild, not all channels have returned as viewable.
Also, when I attempt to record, I get a full page warning that states: hardware problem - and I can't record anything.

Is this likely due to the cable-card pairing, or is there still a hard drive issue with my newly-created disc?
I did the full-length drive test with WD software and all came back as positive.


----------



## unitron

tvmaster2 said:


> update: I use Cox cable card (M) in my TivoHD. Since the rebuild, not all channels have returned as viewable.
> Also, when I attempt to record, I get a full page warning that states: hardware problem - and I can't record anything.
> 
> Is this likely due to the cable-card pairing, or is there still a hard drive issue with my newly-created disc?
> I did the full-length drive test with WD software and all came back as positive.


Copy whatever shows you can that you want to save off to computer first, then we'll talk more.

That hardware problem may be curable by doing a Clear & Delete Everything, but of course everything means all of your recordings go away.


----------



## tvmaster2

unitron said:


> Copy whatever shows you can that you want to save off to computer first, then we'll talk more.
> 
> That hardware problem may be curable by doing a Clear & Delete Everything, but of course everything means all of your recordings go away.


this is a completely new rebuild, from your .tbk file. There are NO shows of any kind on the Tivo. Hence, my concern it is a pairing issue with the cable-card that is not allowing recording.


----------



## unitron

tvmaster2 said:


> this is a completely new rebuild, from your .tbk file. There are NO shows of any kind on the Tivo. Hence, my concern it is a pairing issue with the cable-card that is not allowing recording.


Had you confused with somebody else.

Did you ever give the power supply a good close exam for bad caps while you had the lid off the TiVo?


----------



## ThreeSoFar

tvmaster2 said:


> this is a completely new rebuild, from your .tbk file. There are NO shows of any kind on the Tivo. Hence, my concern it is a pairing issue with the cable-card that is not allowing recording.


New from a backup of a different TiVo, right?

Ten you MUST do a CADE.


----------



## unitron

ThreeSoFar said:


> New from a backup of a different TiVo, right?
> 
> Ten you MUST do a CADE.


My .tbk file should have started him off in GS.

I thought GS would take care of all that, except maybe phantom entries in the NPL.


----------



## tvmaster2

unitron said:


> Had you confused with somebody else.
> 
> Did you ever give the power supply a good close exam for bad caps while you had the lid off the TiVo?


they seem fine - no bulges


----------



## tvmaster2

unitron said:


> My .tbk file should have started him off in GS.
> 
> I thought GS would take care of all that, except maybe phantom entries in the NPL.


ok, so I will try CADE....and if that doesn't work...cable card pairing?


----------



## unitron

tvmaster2 said:


> ok, so I will try CADE....and if that doesn't work...cable card pairing?


First see how well it works or doesn't without cable cards thrown into the mix.

Eliminate varibles when troubleshooting, then re-introduce them one by one.


----------



## tvmaster2

unitron said:


> First see how well it works or doesn't without cable cards thrown into the mix.
> 
> Eliminate varibles when troubleshooting, then re-introduce them one by one.


is there any chance your backup file is corrupted?


----------



## steve614

unitron said:


> My .tbk file should have started him off in GS.
> 
> I thought GS would take care of all that, except maybe phantom entries in the NPL.


I assume that .tbk file came from one of your Tivos, and that you did a C&DE before copying the image.

If that is the case, the original TSN is still associated with that image as I don't think that info is erased with a C&DE.

I don't think you hear that much about it because, I assume, most people familiar with Tivos know it must be done anytime you use a foreign image or swap hard drives.

Classic symptom: Tivo will appear to work normally, only it won't record.


----------



## steve614

tvmaster2 said:


> is there any chance your backup file is corrupted?


Not likely knowing unitron. I'm sure many others have used that same image.

Have you done the Clear & Delete yet?

That is the step needed to "pair" the hard drive with the motherboard.


----------



## tvmaster2

steve614 said:


> Not likely knowing unitron. I'm sure many others have used that same image.
> 
> Have you done the Clear & Delete yet?
> 
> That is the step needed to "pair" the hard drive with the motherboard.


doing it now, but it's been well over an hour, and the screen color has turned from black to pink (text background)

update: switched from HDMI to RCA video, pulled HDMI, and within 30 minutes the CADE had finished. Now rebuilding. will keep you posted 

update 2: ok...finally can record, but am still missing a few premium channels (oddly, not all premiums). guess the cable company call is next...sigh


----------



## tkoyn

I followed the below procedure successfully to upgrade a Tivo HD, that had been upgraded before, from 1 TB to 2TB, retaining my shows. I have some questions and comments, though.

When I got to the Supersize step at the end, winmfs said my drive was already supersized. Would this have been because the earlier 1 TB upgrade had been supersized, that one does not need to do it again?

I bought two identical drives in case I need service replacement later to know I will have something that works. If I want to copy again to another 2TB drive keeping all shows without further expansion, how would I change the procedure? The 1TB drive had 15 partitions, but the 2TB drive adds a 16th partition for 931 GB of additional shows due to my new expansion.

I used a drive from MicroCenter advertised as this:

Deskstar 7K2000 2TB 7,200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive HD32000 IDK/7K
SKU: 768903
Mfr Part #: 0S02861 (Same as Lussie)
UPC: 705487185294

But when I opened it up the label on the drive said model HDS723020BLA642 which is for Deskstar 7K3000, 2TB http://www.hgst.com/deskstar-7k3000

So it appears Hitachi substituted the newer drive, but it seems it does not matter. Both are 512 bytes per sector.

From page 292 of this thread....



Lussie said:


> I have just upgraded my old Tivo S3 (one with the OLED Display) to *2TB* from an *already upgraded 1TB Drive*.
> 
> I didn't lose any shows either. :up:
> 
> So far it seems to be working. I'll give it 2 weeks to see if it is ok.
> 
> Anyway, I did this using *Windows 7*, on my laptop with a Startech USB 3.0 Dual 2.5/3.5in SATA Hard Drive Docking Station. (from Amazon: *SATDOCK22U3S*)
> 
> Also *I used a non-AF drive*: Hitachi Deskstar 3.5" 2TB 7200RPM SATA III 32MB Cache Internal Hard Drive (from Amazon: *0S02861*)
> 
> I used the following software:
> 
> winmfs (beta build 9.3f)
> iBored (1.1.10)
> 
> *STEP 1*
> 
> Start winmfs by right-clicking "*Run as Administrator*"
> Go to Tools->MFSCopy
> 
> I Un-checked "Custom Linux Swap Size"
> However *I DID CHECK "No Optimized Partition Layout"*
> 
> Click "Start" to start the copy. It took 5-6 hours for the copy to complete.
> (Yay! USB 3.0)
> 
> After the copy finishes, You will see a dialog that says "_You have extra capacity on your Hard drive. Do you want to expand?_"
> 
> *CLICK NO*
> 
> Select the "View" Menu item and click "MFSInfo"
> 
> Note that there are 16 partitions with the last one listed as "Apple_Free"
> We need to delete that last partition in Step 2.
> 
> Exit Winmfs and* EJECT YOUR TIVO SOURCE DRIVE*
> 
> *STEP 2*
> 
> Start iBored by right-clicking "*Run as Administrator*"
> 
> Select your "newly copied" tivo drive
> 
> iBored should start out on Block"0"
> 
> Go to block 16 (Either type "16" in the upper left text-panel or press CTRL-RightArrow 16 times)
> 
> in Block 16, click the "*Template*" tab
> 
> Make sure that "*Apple Partition Map:AMP Entry*" is selected in the combo box on the right. If it is not selected, make sure you select it (it's the first one)
> 
> In the Menu, Click "BlockView" -> "Make Writable"
> 
> *We are now going to erase block 16! *
> 
> Click the "*Disk*" Menu item and Select "*Erase Blocks*"
> 
> You will see a Specify Block Range Dialog
> Mine had the Following:
> 
> Block Size: 512 (because I used a non-AF drive)
> Start Block: 16 (The block we are on)
> Block Count: [_SOME HUGE NUMBER_]
> 
> Change Block Count to "1"
> 
> Click OK
> 
> You will see a "_*Really Erase?*_" dialog. Click "*Erase*"
> (*NOTE:* If you see a "_write failed: writing is not enabled_" dialog, then it means that you need to select BlockView->Make Writable)
> 
> BLOCK 16 should now be clear.
> 
> Now, move to block 15. (CTRL-LeftArrow)
> Note that "*blocks in partition map*" is "*16*"
> We need to change this value to "*15*" in blocks 1-15.
> 
> Lets do this by moving backwards.
> 
> _For each block 15 to 1 do the following:_
> 
> *BlockView->Make Writable*
> Change "*blocks in partition map*" to *15 *
> *BlockView->Save Changes*
> CTRL-LeftArrow (to go to previous block)
> 
> ok. So now you are at block 1. Just to make sure that you changed all the entries, verify that "blocks in partition map" is "15" for blocks 1-15.
> 
> Exit iBored
> 
> *STEP 3*
> 
> Start WinMFS again (*Right-Click "Run as Administrator"*)
> 
> Select Tools->MFSadd
> 
> You will get a warning about Tivo not handling partitions greater than 1 TB, but just ignore it (_hopefully, you have Tivo Software *version 11.0* on your tivo_)
> 
> _*Edited for SuperSize (Sorry I forgot that in the original post)*
> _
> *In Winmfs, click on Tools->MFSSuperSize->On*
> 
> That's it.
> 
> You now have a Tivo S3 with a 2TB Drive giving you *318 HD hours* or *2777 SD hours*.
> 
> Cheers,
> -Kevin
> 
> P.S.
> _I also upgraded my Tivo HD from an already upgraded 1 TB to 2 TB Drive (*same Hitachi as listed above*) using a similar method but replacing *Step 3* with *using JMFS* to expand it, but *WinMFS to supersize*. (Also didn't lose any shows and has been running for about 1 month now.)_


----------



## unitron

tkoyn said:


> I followed the below procedure successfully to upgrade a Tivo HD, that had been upgraded before, from 1 TB to 2TB, retaining my shows. I have some questions and comments, though.
> 
> When I got to the Supersize step at the end, winmfs said my drive was already supersized. Would this have been because the earlier 1 TB upgrade had been supersized, that one does not need to do it again?
> 
> I bought two identical drives in case I need service replacement later to know I will have something that works. If I want to copy again to another 2TB drive keeping all shows without further expansion, how would I change the procedure? The 1TB drive had 15 partitions, but the 2TB drive adds a 16th partition for 931 GB of additional shows due to my new expansion.
> 
> I used a drive from MicroCenter advertised as this:
> 
> Deskstar 7K2000 2TB 7,200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive HD32000 IDK/7K
> SKU: 768903
> Mfr Part #: 0S02861 (Same as Lussie)
> UPC: 705487185294
> 
> But when I opened it up the label on the drive said model HDS723020BLA642 which is for Deskstar 7K3000, 2TB http://www.hgst.com/deskstar-7k3000
> 
> So it appears Hitachi substituted the newer drive, but it seems it does not matter. Both are 512 bytes per sector.
> 
> From page 292 of this thread....


If you're going to be going from the same model 2TB drive to the same model, then you just need to "Xerox" the drive, and don't need TiVo specific software, you can use

dd

or

dd_rescue

or

ddrescue

at the command line as long as you're very careful to know which drive is the source and which is the target (because copying a blank drive onto your TiVo drive would leave you with 2 blank drives and 0 TiVo drives).

dd

and

dd_rescue

are both available on the MFS Live cd v1.4, a copy of which you should make for yourself even if you don't own a TiVo.

I think jmfs utilizes

ddrescue

but I don't know if you can invoke it yourself at the command line, or if you'd have to tell jmfs to copy.


----------



## tkoyn

unitron said:


> If you're going to be going from the same model 2TB drive to the same model, then you just need to "Xerox" the drive, and don't need TiVo specific software, you can use
> 
> dd
> 
> or
> 
> dd_rescue
> 
> or
> 
> ddrescue
> 
> at the command line as long as you're very careful to know which drive is the source and which is the target (because copying a blank drive onto your TiVo drive would leave you with 2 blank drives and 0 TiVo drives).
> 
> dd
> 
> and
> 
> dd_rescue
> 
> are both available on the MFS Live cd v1.4, a copy of which you should make for yourself even if you don't own a TiVo.
> 
> I think jmfs utilizes
> 
> ddrescue
> 
> but I don't know if you can invoke it yourself at the command line, or if you'd have to tell jmfs to copy.


If I am going to copy to like drive must I switch to these command line utilities, or can I do it with winmfs where I clearly see source is tivo drive and dest is blank before I copy? In otherwords, how would I do the copy with Tivo specific software?


----------



## unitron

tkoyn said:


> If I am going to copy to like drive must I switch to these command line utilities, or can I do it with winmfs where I clearly see source is tivo drive and dest is blank before I copy? In otherwords, how would I do the copy with Tivo specific software?


I have an HD in which I've had a 2TB WD20EADS which I prepared using WinMFS to put the image on a 1TB "middleman", and then used jmfs to copy that to the 2TB and expand by adding a 16th partition.

This allowed me to have a swap partition in the neighborhood of 1GB and for the final partition to be just under 1TB.

I'm replacing the EADS with a WD20EURS, and I just tried WinMFS's mfscopy to copy the entire thing over and it choked on it. I suspect because of the single jmfs added partition, since WinMFS was written to deal with MFS pairs.

So now I'm using

dd_rescue

to do the "Xeroxing".

I used WinMFS to make a truncated backup of the EADS and restore it onto the EURS, which gave me just the original 160GB worth of TiVo partitions and 1.7TB of empty space, and tested that in the HD, got a green screen which ran and straightened itself out, so the EURS will work in the HD, so there's nothing wrong with it. Of course when I got it the first thing I did was run WD's long test.

The way I'm doing it isn't all that hard.

I booted with the MFS Live cd, and then I made sure that my source drive (the EADS) was

/dev/sda

and that my target (the EURS) was

/dev/sdb

and then typed in

dd_rescue -v /dev/sda /dev/sdb

and hit Enter and it's churning away right now, copying over everything.

And I can see it working because I invoked verbose mode with the

-v

option.

Since the jmfs cd uses something similar

(I think it's

ddrescue

)

to do the copying phase, you might be able to do your "Xeroxing" with that, and it probably won't ask if you want to expand because there won't be anywhere to expand to.


----------



## juddev

2 hours of reading and i am still not sure what to do to increase the recording time on my S3 Oled 648 TiVo. Are there instructions for going from the stock 250gb drive to a 2TB drive like the WD20EURS? If it makes any difference I do have a Samsung 1TB HD103SJ that I could format and use for the transition from 250gb to 2tb if that is still necessary.
Thanks


----------



## unitron

juddev said:


> 2 hours of reading and i am still not sure what to do to increase the recording time on my S3 Oled 648 TiVo. Are there instructions for going from the stock 250gb drive to a 2TB drive like the WD20EURS? If it makes any difference I do have a Samsung 1TB HD103SJ that I could format and use for the transition from 250gb to 2tb if that is still necessary.
> Thanks


Which time zone are you in?

(sounds like this is going to require a phone call)


----------



## juddev

Central (MN)


----------



## unitron

Scoot your phone num to me at coastalnet.com and I'll call in about an hour or so after my cell recharges.


----------



## steve614

unitron said:


> Scoot your phone num to me at coastalnet.com and I'll call in about an hour or so after my cell recharges.


Getting tired of typing?


----------



## dbaps

In instruction 28, is that a complete list of historical supported drives? If not, can anyone put together a complete historical list? Some of us have older hard drives that haven't been used a whole lot so it would be nice to have a complete list. For example, I bought a couple of extra Seagate drives when I bought my Qnap NAS. The drives have never been used. I would like to install a 2TB drive in my Tivo HD XL. The drive is going, going, gone...Also I saved my original hard drive for my Tivo HD. Can that software be used on an XL? If not, I want to get the XL software off while I can rather than pay the money for the software.

I have an old 2TB Barracuda drive. I also have a Constellation drive.

Thanks everyone.


----------



## lpwcomp

dbaps said:


> In instruction 28, is that a complete list of historical supported drives? If not, can anyone put together a complete historical list? Some of us have older hard drives that haven't been used a whole lot so it would be nice to have a complete list. For example, I bought a couple of extra Seagate drives when I bought my Qnap NAS. The drives have never been used. I would like to install a 2TB drive in my Tivo HD XL. The drive is going, going, gone...Also I saved my original hard drive for my Tivo HD. Can that software be used on an XL? If not, I want to get the XL software off while I can rather than pay the money for the software.


While the THD s/w probably will work in a THD XL, you should take the HD XL drive out, connect it to a PC, and make a truncated backup. You do not need the new drive to do that.


----------



## unitron

dbaps said:


> In instruction 28, is that a complete list of historical supported drives? If not, can anyone put together a complete historical list? Some of us have older hard drives that haven't been used a whole lot so it would be nice to have a complete list. For example, I bought a couple of extra Seagate drives when I bought my Qnap NAS. The drives have never been used. I would like to install a 2TB drive in my Tivo HD XL. The drive is going, going, gone...Also I saved my original hard drive for my Tivo HD. Can that software be used on an XL? If not, I want to get the XL software off while I can rather than pay the money for the software.
> 
> I have an old 2TB Barracuda drive. I also have a Constellation drive.
> 
> Thanks everyone.


Somewhere in the "Need an image, don't PM me" thread I've got a link to a TCD658000 image.

As for a complete list of drives, there is, of course, no "official" list.

It's all been trial and error.

What are the model numbers of the drives you have?


----------



## unitron

Lussie said:


> I have just upgraded my old Tivo S3 (one with the OLED Display) to *2TB* from an *already upgraded 1TB Drive*.
> 
> I didn't lose any shows either. :up:
> 
> So far it seems to be working. I'll give it 2 weeks to see if it is ok.
> 
> Anyway, I did this using *Windows 7*, on my laptop with a Startech USB 3.0 Dual 2.5/3.5in SATA Hard Drive Docking Station. (from Amazon: *SATDOCK22U3S*)
> 
> Also *I used a non-AF drive*: Hitachi Deskstar 3.5" 2TB 7200RPM SATA III 32MB Cache Internal Hard Drive (from Amazon: *0S02861*)
> 
> I used the following software:
> 
> winmfs (beta build 9.3f)
> iBored (1.1.10)
> 
> *STEP 1*
> 
> Start winmfs by right-clicking "*Run as Administrator*"
> Go to Tools->MFSCopy
> 
> I Un-checked "Custom Linux Swap Size"
> However *I DID CHECK "No Optimized Partition Layout"*
> 
> Click "Start" to start the copy. It took 5-6 hours for the copy to complete.
> (Yay! USB 3.0)
> 
> After the copy finishes, You will see a dialog that says "_You have extra capacity on your Hard drive. Do you want to expand?_"
> 
> *CLICK NO*
> 
> Select the "View" Menu item and click "MFSInfo"
> 
> Note that there are 16 partitions with the last one listed as "Apple_Free"
> We need to delete that last partition in Step 2.
> 
> Exit Winmfs and* EJECT YOUR TIVO SOURCE DRIVE*
> 
> *STEP 2*
> 
> Start iBored by right-clicking "*Run as Administrator*"
> 
> Select your "newly copied" tivo drive
> 
> iBored should start out on Block"0"
> 
> Go to block 16 (Either type "16" in the upper left text-panel or press CTRL-RightArrow 16 times)
> 
> in Block 16, click the "*Template*" tab
> 
> Make sure that "*Apple Partition Map:AMP Entry*" is selected in the combo box on the right. If it is not selected, make sure you select it (it's the first one)
> 
> In the Menu, Click "BlockView" -> "Make Writable"
> 
> *We are now going to erase block 16! *
> 
> Click the "*Disk*" Menu item and Select "*Erase Blocks*"
> 
> You will see a Specify Block Range Dialog
> Mine had the Following:
> 
> Block Size: 512 (because I used a non-AF drive)
> Start Block: 16 (The block we are on)
> Block Count: [_SOME HUGE NUMBER_]
> 
> Change Block Count to "1"
> 
> Click OK
> 
> You will see a "_*Really Erase?*_" dialog. Click "*Erase*"
> (*NOTE:* If you see a "_write failed: writing is not enabled_" dialog, then it means that you need to select BlockView->Make Writable)
> 
> BLOCK 16 should now be clear.
> 
> Now, move to block 15. (CTRL-LeftArrow)
> Note that "*blocks in partition map*" is "*16*"
> We need to change this value to "*15*" in blocks 1-15.
> 
> Lets do this by moving backwards.
> 
> _For each block 15 to 1 do the following:_
> 
> *BlockView->Make Writable*
> Change "*blocks in partition map*" to *15 *
> *BlockView->Save Changes*
> CTRL-LeftArrow (to go to previous block)
> 
> ok. So now you are at block 1. Just to make sure that you changed all the entries, verify that "blocks in partition map" is "15" for blocks 1-15.
> 
> Exit iBored
> 
> *STEP 3*
> 
> Start WinMFS again (*Right-Click "Run as Administrator"*)
> 
> Select Tools->MFSadd
> 
> You will get a warning about Tivo not handling partitions greater than 1 TB, but just ignore it (_hopefully, you have Tivo Software *version 11.0* on your tivo_)
> 
> _*Edited for SuperSize (Sorry I forgot that in the original post)*
> _
> *In Winmfs, click on Tools->MFSSuperSize->On*
> 
> That's it.
> 
> You now have a Tivo S3 with a 2TB Drive giving you *318 HD hours* or *2777 SD hours*.
> 
> Cheers,
> -Kevin
> 
> P.S.
> _I also upgraded my Tivo HD from an already upgraded 1 TB to 2 TB Drive (*same Hitachi as listed above*) using a similar method but replacing *Step 3* with *using JMFS* to expand it, but *WinMFS to supersize*. (Also didn't lose any shows and has been running for about 1 month now.)_


I've been re-reading this post in order to try to help explain to someone else how to put a 2TB in a TCD648250.

I'm puzzled.

If you started, back when, with the original 250GB drive, it had 13 partitions on it, 1. the partition map, 2, 3, and 4. the primary "boot trio", 5, 6, and 7. the alternate boot trio, 8. the swap partition, 9. var, and then 2 MFS pairs, 10 and 11, and 12 and 13.

Using MFS Live or WinMFS to copy it to the 1TB and expand would have resulted in a third MFS pair being added, 14 and 15, because that's how they expand, by adding MFS pairs.

If there was any space left at the end, it would have been called an Apple Free partition, and would have been partition 16.

It's been my experience that MFS Live will leave a little space going onto a 1tb drive, but WinMFS will use it all up when it creates partitions 14 and 15.

Copying that to a 2TB and telling it not to expand would either have left you with the original small partition 16 and the rest of the space ignored, or would have left you with an Apple Free partition of about 1TB in size.

If you hadn't already hit the 3 MFS pair limit per TiVo drive, then either program should be able to rewrite the partition map to convert what would be Apple Free partition 14 into MFS partitions 14 and 15.

But if you already expanded into the rest of that 1TB after copying the 250 to it, you should already have that 3rd and final MFS pair added.

Unless WinMFS can, when asked to expand via mfsadd, expand that 15th partition, leaving it starting at the same place but ending many GB further than before.

In which case, I don't think deleting the 16th Apple Free partition manually would be necessary.

I just replaced a WD20EADS in my S3 HD with a WD20EURS, so I have a 2TB to play with temporarily, so I'll try to do some experimenting.


----------



## dbaps

unitron said:


> Somewhere in the "Need an image, don't PM me" thread I've got a link to a TCD658000 image.
> 
> As for a complete list of drives, there is, of course, no "official" list.
> 
> It's all been trial and error.
> 
> What are the model numbers of the drives you have?


I have two Seagate Barracuda XT 32000641AS unused.


----------



## unitron

dbaps said:


> I have two Seagate Barracuda XT 32000641AS unused.


Google returns almost nothing about that model number, but apparently it's a 1.5 or 3 Gb/s non-advanced format, so it's worth giving a try after you run Seagate's long diagnostic on it to make sure it's good.

Burn yourself a copy of the latest Ultimate Boot CD, it's got most all of the drive makers' diagnostic programs on it.


----------



## edtude

Newegg has these drives on sale for $99......

Western Digital WD AV-GP WD20EURS 2TB 64MB Cache SATA 

I have installed this successfully in my Series 3


----------



## unitron

edtude said:


> Newegg has these drives on sale for $99......
> 
> Western Digital WD AV-GP WD20EURS 2TB 64MB Cache SATA
> 
> I have installed this successfully in my Series 3


Sale ends 11:59pm PT on 10/02/2012!

Free shipping

3 year warranty.

Don't forget to run wdidle3 on it.


----------



## mrelectron

unitron said:


> In which case, I don't think deleting the 16th Apple Free partition manually would be necessary.


@unitron, I just sent you an email regarding this.

Carl


----------



## dbaps

So the stuff I was reading on this site about how WD adjusts RPM's with Intellipower and it not being good for a series 3 is wrong? I guess so since you are recommending them for purchase? The only drive I've replaced on a Tivo was 2-3 years ago with one of the Enterprise 5 year warranty drives. I forget the model number now. They were specifically suggested for DVR's. With all of the changes in company mergers, worse warranties and so forth, I guess the playing field has changed? I'm just surprised that a higher end drive is not being suggested here?

Something like this isn't a better choice?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136792

The red nas 2tb drives are on sale for $119.99. $60 off...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236343&Tpk=western digital red drives 2tb

Thanks...


----------



## unitron

dbaps said:


> So the stuff I was reading on this site about how WD adjusts RPM's with Intellipower and it not being good for a series 3 is wrong? I guess so since you are recommending them for purchase? The only drive I've replaced on a Tivo was 2-3 years ago with one of the Enterprise 5 year warranty drives. I forget the model number now. They were specifically suggested for DVR's. With all of the changes in company mergers, worse warranties and so forth, I guess the playing field has changed? I'm just surprised that a higher end drive is not being suggested here?
> 
> Something like this isn't a better choice?
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136792
> 
> Thanks...


Intellipower is not the same thing as Intellipark.

Intellipark is what screws up a soft reboot of a TiVo.

TiVo's don't need superfast drives.

If that were the older version of that Caviar Black, operating at 1.5Gb/s or 3Gb/s, and non-advanced format, I'd say it'd work fine in a TiVo (but recommend installing an extra fan to cool it), but that it'd be overkill.

I haven't seen many, if any, mentions of AF 6Gb/s drives working in TiVos.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

edtude said:


> Newegg has these drives on sale for $99......
> 
> Western Digital WD AV-GP WD20EURS 2TB 64MB Cache SATA
> 
> I have installed this successfully in my Series 3


Sweet! Thanks for the heads up, two on the way!


----------



## unitron

edtude said:


> Newegg has these drives on sale for $99......
> 
> Western Digital WD AV-GP WD20EURS 2TB 64MB Cache SATA
> 
> I have installed this successfully in my Series 3


Amazon's unofficially pricematching, don't know for how long.

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...=UTF8&qid=1348971585&sr=8-1&keywords=wd20eurs


----------



## juddev

I bought one too, hope I can make it work in my S3 Oled.


----------



## unitron

juddev said:


> I bought one too, hope I can make it work in my S3 Oled.


The drive itself should work, the trick is figuring out how to use all of it, which I'm still working on, but not having an actual 648 to test stuff on isn't helping.

You could try using WinMFS to copy from the original 250GB drive, and then go back and tell it to expand and when it asks if you want to limit partition size, say no, and try that in the TiVo for a few days to see how it behaves.


----------



## andyw715

Question about upgrading a TCD652160 to 2TB

Is it worthwhile ordering another WD20EURS as a spare? Since the go to drive (eads) non af isn't around anymore. This one seems to be the next best thing. How long will it remain in production? will the next version even work (who knows?)

Prior to install in the tivo, i'll off load whatever programming I need to my computer.

1) Is it best to set it up as new, and then re-pair the cable card/download to SPs from tivo.com
OR
2) divorce my external from the orginal 160GB and copy to new using the directions?

Obviously I would need to get the original image for option 1.


----------



## steve614

I would go with option 2.
No need to set up as new. Especially if you're dealing with cable card pairing.
Divorce the external and make sure the Tivo functions properly with a single drive.
Do the upgrade. All of your settings, thumb ratings, season passes, and cable card pairing will be copied to the new hard drive.


----------



## dbaps

Just want to tell everyone that I switched out my 1TB drive and put in the 2TB NAS red drive. I can't hear it at all. Everything went fine. If you don't mind paying a little extra its a good deal. I was surprised about the 1 TB green drive that came with the Tivo-HD XL. Just surprised they used that model.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...20drives 2tb

I'm looking forward to someone that knows what their doing to rate the noise level of this drive.


----------



## unitron

dbaps said:


> Just want to tell everyone that I switched out my 1TB drive and put in the 2TB NAS red drive. I can't hear it at all. Everything went fine. If you don't mind paying a little extra its a good deal. I was surprised about the 1 TB green drive that came with the Tivo-HD XL. Just surprised they used that model.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...20drives 2tb
> 
> I'm looking forward to someone that knows what their doing to rate the noise level of this drive.


We curiously await the saga of how well that Red drive works out in a TiVo and wonder if extra heat will be a problem.

The green runs plenty fast for a TiVo.


----------



## snathanb

Well.. I've been figuratively pulling my hair out for two weekends trying to figure out why I couldn't get my WD10EARX working. Yes, I should have read this thread *first*, but when I upgraded my S3 from 250 GB to 1 TB several years ago, I bought a WD Green Drive and figured I'd just go the same route and bought one when they were on sale. 


Two things:

1) wdidle3 - as someone else mentioned, the drive simply would not be recognized until it had been run.
2) Jumpers. This is a 6 Gb/s drive. The tivo would not recognize it and boot from it until I jumpered it down to 3 Gb/s (jumpers 5 and 6).

Now.. it works like a charm. On the plus side, I also replaced all the caps in the power supply, as well, thinking that may have been my problem.

I'm posting this in the hopes it helps someone else having issues with the same drive.


----------



## pharmatard

I read through the instructions on *page 1* of the forum, but wondered if there was an updated set somewhere (l/u Aug '10). There are over 300 pages of comments, so I haven't sorted through them all to see where any updated instructions might be for current drive availability and programs needed to perform upgrades.

I have a TiVo HD (regular, not XL) and want to upgrade. I noted the recent entry with directions for deleting block 16/iBored/etc. Can I follow those directions with a 1-2TB drive I can find on sale at Best Buy, or do I need to keep an eye out for a special kind? And can I assume that any conventional drive will be non-AF?

Thanks! I'll start poring through the pages bit by bit to see if I can find my answers, but figured you guys might have a shortcut!

Cheez

EDIT: Found some more info. It looks like people have had some success with AF drives, so I'll try one of those first, starting with the WD20EURS. Do I need to worry about "bulging"? I haven't found what causes that yet and if it's a major concern.


----------



## steve614

pharmatard said:


> I have a TiVo HD (regular, not XL) and want to upgrade. I noted the recent entry with directions for deleting block 16/iBored/etc. Can I follow those directions with a 1-2TB drive I can find on sale at Best Buy, or do I need to keep an eye out for a special kind? And can I assume that any conventional drive will be non-AF?
> 
> Thanks! I'll start poring through the pages bit by bit to see if I can find my answers, but figured you guys might have a shortcut!
> 
> Cheez


If you are using the original hard drive that came with the Tivo as the source, you can ignore that stuff. That is dealing with upgrading a hard drive that had already been upgraded before.


pharmatard said:


> Do I need to worry about "bulging"? I haven't found what causes that yet and if it's a major concern.


''Bulging'' is a completely different topic that pertains to the capacitors on the power supply. A bad power supply can cause symptoms that mimick a bad hard drive.
Due to capacitor plague, it is recommended that you check the power supply even though you suspect a hard drive problem.


----------



## unitron

pharmatard said:


> I read through the instructions on *page 1* of the forum, but wondered if there was an updated set somewhere (l/u Aug '10). There are over 300 pages of comments, so I haven't sorted through them all to see where any updated instructions might be for current drive availability and programs needed to perform upgrades.
> 
> I have a TiVo HD (regular, not XL) and want to upgrade. I noted the recent entry with directions for deleting block 16/iBored/etc. Can I follow those directions with a 1-2TB drive I can find on sale at Best Buy, or do I need to keep an eye out for a special kind? And can I assume that any conventional drive will be non-AF?
> 
> Thanks! I'll start poring through the pages bit by bit to see if I can find my answers, but figured you guys might have a shortcut!
> 
> Cheez
> 
> EDIT: Found some more info. It looks like people have had some success with AF drives, so I'll try one of those first, starting with the WD20EURS. Do I need to worry about "bulging"? I haven't found what causes that yet and if it's a major concern.


I put an EURS in my S3 HD about a month ago and it's working fine.


----------



## dmbpj

I am close to tears here. I bought a new WD approved HD and wanted to use Mfscopy and I screwed something up.

I backed up my original drive, kernal, and boot page, but now I am not sure what to do and don't want to totally blow this.

In Winmfs when I select my original Tivo drive I can see the parameters of model #, format, drive size (160GB), sectors, bus type and it is unmounted. But when I click select the drive does not show up in the lower left of Winmfs and when I go to to mfs copy, only the drive I am trying to copy to shows up.

Here is a screenshot

The drive just shows up at Tivo Drive A: 0 (, )

Scary thing is when I went to select the drive the first time it all showed up ok. I am not sure what I did.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## dmbpj

I am afraid to restore the original drive. Don't know what to do. Please help.


----------



## ThAbtO

Try running WinMFS as administrator. Also, do not use Windows administrative tools on the Tivo drive, especially to obtain a drive letter, as this will delete all Tivo info from the drive. Windows should not recognize the drive, only WinMFS.



dmbpj said:


> I am close to tears here. I bought a new WD approved HD and wanted to use Mfscopy and I screwed something up.
> 
> I backed up my original drive, kernal, and boot page, but now I am not sure what to do and don't want to totally blow this.
> 
> In Winmfs when I select my original Tivo drive I can see the parameters of model #, format, drive size (160GB), sectors, bus type and it is unmounted. But when I click select the drive does not show up in the lower left of Winmfs and when I go to to mfs copy, only the drive I am trying to copy to shows up.
> 
> Here is a screenshot
> 
> The drive just shows up at Tivo Drive A: 0 (, )
> 
> Scary thing is when I went to select the drive the first time it all showed up ok. I am not sure what I did.
> 
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## unitron

dmbpj said:


> I am close to tears here. I bought a new WD approved HD and wanted to use Mfscopy and I screwed something up.
> 
> I backed up my original drive, kernal, and boot page, but now I am not sure what to do and don't want to totally blow this.
> 
> In Winmfs when I select my original Tivo drive I can see the parameters of model #, format, drive size (160GB), sectors, bus type and it is unmounted. But when I click select the drive does not show up in the lower left of Winmfs and when I go to to mfs copy, only the drive I am trying to copy to shows up.
> 
> Here is a screenshot
> 
> The drive just shows up at Tivo Drive A: 0 (, )
> 
> Scary thing is when I went to select the drive the first time it all showed up ok. I am not sure what I did.
> 
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us


It's difficult to tell from your screenshot, but it looks like you've got a bunch of stuff other than WinMFS open as well, which is not the way to reduce the chances of something going wrong.

Tell WinMFS to show mounted drives and see if your source drive shows up with a drive letter attached.

If so, there's something in WinMFS that'll overwrite the PC style MBR and re-write a TiVo/Apple Partition Map style bootpage, I just don't remember exactly what it's called.

You should make yourself a bootable copy of the Ultimate Boot CD, which has, among a lot of other stuff, manufacturers' diagnostic hard drive testing programs.

You might want to check both your source and target drives first.


----------



## pharmatard

As an update, I just successfully updated my TiVo HD from a factory 160GB drive to a 2TB and have the FULL CAPACITY! With two caveats (EDIT - three caveats, I can't count):

1. When I used iBored to alter the partitions, I only had 14 total partitions, NOT 16. It may be because I had barely anything still on the old drive as I'd recently deleted a bunch of my former roommate's reality TV that was hogging what little space I had. I still updated all the numbers to 15.

2. When I went back into WinMFS after using iBored, it stated "WinMFS Error 7: wrong tivo signature" or something similar. I tried fixing the bootpage using option 1, then option 2, and neither worked. Each time I tried reopening the drive, WinMFS said "This is not a TiVo drive." I then restored the drive from the truncated backup and it loaded just fine after reinstalling in my TiVo, except...

3. The few recordings I had copied over in the initial mfscopy step would not play - I received a "playback error - there was no signal when this show was recorded". I wasn't too broken up about losing what I had left, so I just deleted all the leftover entries and am starting fresh.

Added a bunch of new season passes. If you never hear from me again, it's because you guys posted an amazingly complete and comprehensive guide and everything's perfect.

THANKS! You helped me save at least $4-500!


----------



## OhFiddle

Thought I would post my lengthy Tivo HD drive upgrade experience on here in case it is helpful to others. I had read a good chunk of this thread and countless other sites before performing the upgrade and got a lot of helpful info, but also a lot of conflicting and possibly outdated info about which drive to buy. Many of the recommended "best drives" were not readily available anymore. I also had a couple of "oh crap" moments where something unexpected happened that I hadn't read about, but it turned out ok.

Based on a post by an Australian on here and a single Amazon review both saying the WD10EURX worked great, I decided to give it a chance. There were older posts and websites saying it most likely wouldn't work, but since it was one of the few drives I could actually find "new" I wanted to try it.

It has been two weeks since I put the drive in and I haven't noticed any problems yet. I did a soft reboot and it came up fine.

I bought the new 1TB WD10EURX drive from Amazon for $91. It is a SATA III drive and says on the drive that is advanced format and a green drive. The manufacturer date is 31 Aug 2012 and it is a product of Malaysia. The full model # is WD10EURX-73FH1Y0 .

I used a computer with Windows 7 64 bit with 6 gigs of ram to work on.

I wanted to see about the whole intellipark issue, so I downloaded the wdidle3 iso and burned it to a cd to boot from. I hooked up the new drive directly to the sata controller on the motherboard and disconnected my main hd. Then I powered up and went into my bios to change the sata controller to ide mode then saved and exited. Then I booted from the cd and typed in _wdidle3_. It said idle3 timer is disabled! I should have just stopped there and realized I lucked out that it was disabled already, but I decided to type in _wdidle3 /r_ just to be sure. That kind of locked it up and after a long wait I got beeps and errors about reading from the drive. Then prompts to abort, retry , fail which did not allow me to enter anything. I thought I hosed it up, but a powercyle and running it again still showed it was still disabled so I stopped there and proceeded to the next step.

I powered down and re-attached my main drive and also attached the old tivo drive to the sata controller. Then I changed my bios sata setting back and booted into windows. I disabled my Avast anti-virus and changed my power saving settings to stay on to avoid anything interrupting the copy process.

Then I right-clicked on and ran as an administrator the latest WinMFS that I had downloaded . In WinMFS I selected the old tivo drive and ran all three backup options. Then I ran msinfo on the old drive and saved the results. I reselected the old tivo drive and ran mfscopy.

Here's where the weirdness starts which I think someone else posted about recently too. I got a pop-up that said "restore bootpage, you are about to overwrite dos or windows drive". That freaked me out so I backed out and tried it again. Multiple times in fact.

Only the two unmounted drives (old tivo and new unformatted tivo drive) were showing up in the program though, not my windows drive. So the message about overwriting a windows drive didn't make sense.

On the bottom status bar it showed the old drive as tivo drive a:0 (,) and clicking on the status bar showed it as a 0gb drive but the correct software version and serial number were there. I figured it was just a glitch and proceeded. On the next screen where you select your source drive from the drop down it also showed the drive was 0gb. But after reselecting it in the drop-down a few times the correct info suddenly populated saying it was 160gb and a tivo series drive. But in the status bar at the bottom of the screen it still had the wrong info.

So I went ahead and selected the new 1tb as the destination and proceeded. I left the checkboxes at the default options and ran it. It took about 45 minutes to do the copy (the old drive was not nearly full). When prompted to expand the new drive I hit yes. I ran the msinfo on the new drive and saved it. Then I selected the new drive and went to tools supersize and turned that on.

Then I powered down, disconnected everything, and put the new drive in the tivo. It came up the first time with all my old recordings and has been working great. I tried the soft reboot from the menu and it came up fine.

While I had the case open I also looked at the capacitors and didn't notice anything funky with them. The reason I decided to upgrade the drive was because I had just a couple of times where the tivo locked up.

I still don't know what caused the lock-up issues but I thought it would be wise to replace the hard drive anyways before it failed. One time we had turned on the tv to find just a gray screen even though the tivo was on...a reboot fixed it. The other time it was stuck on the tivo menu with the green, red, and yellow light all solid on and it was totally unresponsive to the remote. I couldn't find any info on the yellow light staying on like that unless you had a phone line connected to the tivo... which we do not. A reboot fixed that lockup too, but it prompted me to run the diagnostics and replace the drive anyways. The old drive passed all the kickstart hd tests too.

I know this is overly wordy. But, I thought it might be helpful to anyone thinking on trying the wd10eurx or experiencing the same weirdness with the wdidle3 and WinMFS program. I saw someone else a few posts above had the same issue recently with the WinMFS not correctly recognizing/identifying the old tivo drive.


----------



## deafwhisperer

Bear in mind, I have re-read and search all over the forum for guidance. I think I'm still missing a few things...

Here's what I understand and done so far:
1) Since 160gb HD for my TivoHD (TCD652160) failed, I bought a new WD20EURS. This model has been "proven" to work with a bunch of folks here.
2) WD20EURS - disk idle timer is disabled via WDIDLE3
3) I'm in the middle of an extended test on WD20EURS - half way to go, so far so good.
4) I grabbed unitron's images (652_gset.bak & 652_gset.tbk). (thanks!!!!)

Here's the thing... Most of the instructions in this forum involve using the original HD but mine is dead. I want to start over and utilize the entire 2 GB for my Tivo. 

Do I need to start using JMFS (per that JMFS instructions for TivoHD). If not, then start WinMFS? Where does the expanding happens? I understand supersize will be done in WinMFS.

If you can fill my knowledge gaps on this, that will be gold. Right now, my head is spinning out of control...


----------



## unitron

deafwhisperer said:


> Bear in mind, I have re-read and search all over the forum for guidance. I think I'm still missing a few things...
> 
> Here's what I understand and done so far:
> 1) Since 160gb HD for my TivoHD (TCD652160) failed, I bought a new WD20EURS. This model has been "proven" to work with a bunch of folks here.
> 2) WD20EURS - disk idle timer is disabled via WDIDLE3
> 3) I'm in the middle of an extended test on WD20EURS - half way to go, so far so good.
> 4) I grabbed unitron's images (652_gset.bak & 652_gset.tbk). (thanks!!!!)
> 
> Here's the thing... Most of the instructions in this forum involve using the original HD but mine is dead. I want to start over and utilize the entire 2 GB for my Tivo.
> 
> Do I need to start using JMFS (per that JMFS instructions for TivoHD). If not, then start WinMFS? Where does the expanding happens? I understand supersize will be done in WinMFS.
> 
> If you can fill my knowledge gaps on this, that will be gold. Right now, my head is spinning out of control...


Do you have another hard drive at least 160GB in size which you can use temporarily?

You need a drive with the image on it, but without any extra space that would get turned into an Apple Free Partition (yep, the Apple Partition Map scheme classifies unpartitioned space as a partition), because jmfs just copies everything in its first step before it offers to expand.

If not there may be a complicated way to do it with just the 2TB drive, but I'm only half-way through that experiment so far.

Ordinarily, you would take the .bak image and use the MFS Live cd and restore that image on a drive up to 1.2TB in size, which would put the original 13 partitions on it, and then it would expand by adding an MFS pair (partitions 14 and 15).

Or you would take the .tbk image and use WinMFS to do the same thing.

Either way, you wind up with 15 partitions.

Then you could take jmfs and it would copy that 15 partition structure to the 2TB and further expand by adding a single MFS media partition.

That would exhaust TiVo's 16 partitions per drive limit.

Or I guess you could do it the way jmfs was originally designed to work upgrading Premieres and take the original drive (which would have to working without problem) and let jmfs copy it to the 2TB and then fill up the extra space with a single MFS media partition.

The thing about jmfs is that it was never designed to have to deal with the existence of an Apple Free partition, and cannot reclaim any space used by one, cannot copy the other partitions and not copy that one, and if that Apple Free partition is the 16th partition before jmfs does its expansion trick by adding a partition, the partition added will be the 17th on that drive and the TiVo will think it's a screwed up partition on an external drive and insist on divorcing it, leaving you back where you started.


----------



## deafwhisperer

Thanks for the quick response. Yes, I do have a couple of spare HDs bigger than 160GB. I have 750GB and 1TB. 

That now make sense. I didn't think about using any spare HD to start this process. 

There's two more hours left on the extended test. I'll work on this first thing in the morning.


----------



## unitron

deafwhisperer said:


> Thanks for the quick response. Yes, I do have a couple of spare HDs bigger than 160GB. I have 750GB and 1TB.
> 
> That now make sense. I didn't think about using any spare HD to start this process.
> 
> There's two more hours left on the extended test. I'll work on this first thing in the morning.


Okay, I'm assuming you're talking about running the extended test on the new drive before putting it into service?

Have you connected the original 160GB drive to a PC and tested it with the manufacturer's diagnostics to see just how dead it is or isn't?

We need to be sure your problem is a bad drive and not a power supply with "capacitor plague" since both are possible with that model.

And if we can copy the 160 to the 1TB that'll save some time and work later on.

Assuming the 160 is bad, can't be copied, and the power supply is good---

Here's what you do to do it the way I did it on my TCD652160, or would have if I didn't have a good original 160GB drive, but did have the image files.

First, you make sure you aren't using a GigaByte brand motherboard because of the host protected area they create on hard drives whether you want it or not (although if that's all you have there is a workaround for that).

Then you waste a lot of time using the MFS Live cd v1.4 to restore the .bak image to a 1TB, only to always wind up with a little extra space at the end which gets turned into an Apple Free Partition, no matter how much you play around with the size of the swap partition. 

This is not a disparagement of the MFS Live cd. If it were a phonograph record I'd have worn it out by now using different programs and utilities off of it.

But it won't completely fill a 1TB with no space left over for some reason.

So, then you use WinMFS and the .tbk image file.

Open the program while running as administrator or run it with admin privileges.

Click on select drive and choose the 1TB.

If it has some old DOS/Windows/PC stuff on it you'll probably have to click on "show mounted drives", although in that case it might be better to use the MFS Live cd to write zeros to the first few sectors of the drive before booting into Windows with it attached. Especially if your Windows installation is on another 1TB drive and there's any risk of choosing the wrong drive to put the TiVo image on.

After you've selected the drive, you click on restore, point it to wherever on the Windows drive you've got the .tbk file, tell it to use the optimized partition layout (or don't tell it not to, depending on how that checkbox is worded), and I prefer to set the swap partition size around 1000MB instead of the stock 128MB. I don't know if that's really necessary the way it was way back when people were first upgrading Series 1 drives and developed the 1MB for every 2GB of new drive size rule of thumb, but it's only enough room for about 15 minutes of video, so I consider it cheap insurance.

Then you tell it to proceed, it starts and will probably appear to freeze and be doing nothing but it's still working, and eventually it'll finish, which will leave you with a drive with the original 13 partitions and the rest of the space will be a big Apple Free 14th partition. Then it'll tell you there's extra space and do you want to expand and you say yes, and it adds an MFS partition pair where the Apple Free partition is, making it disappear, and that fills the drive and gives you 15 partitions.

Then you click on mfsinfo and make sure it doesn't throw up any error messages.

Then you boot it in the TiVo to make sure it works.

Since the image came from an S3 HD with a different TiVo Service Number, it'll probably complain, and you'll need to either let it do what it wants to to fix it, or run a clear and delete everything, and then go through guided setup.

Eventually, you'll get it set up the way you want it, cable provider chosen, local OTA channels detected, cable cards paired, et cetera.

At that point you should hook it back to the PC and use at least WinMFS to make a .tbk truncated image of that particular drive the way it's set up now, since the 1TB is only being used temporarily and you won't be putting it on a shelf for an emergency back up the way you would with a good working original 160GB drive.

You can also teach yourself enough about the MFS Live cd tools and make a .bak truncated backup as well, just for extra safety (If Windows craps out on you just as you need to create a new replacement TiVo drive, you've still got something)

Both of those truncated backups will create a 13 partition 160GB restoration, not a 15 partition 1TB one, but you can always expand to 15 partitions again with WinMFS or the MFS Live cd if you've restored to a drive larger than 160Gb.

At that point hook both the 1TB and the 2TB to the PC and boot with the jmfs cd v1.04 and let it do a byte for byte copy of the 1TB to the 2TB, and then expand into the rest of the space by adding a single, 16th, MFS Media partition.

Then go back to WinMFS and tell it to supersize the 2TB.

Then put it in the TiVo and enjoy.


----------



## deafwhisperer

Okay, I'm assuming you're talking about running the extended test on the new drive before putting it into service?
<<
Yes, Data Lifeguard Diagnostic for Windows - Extended Test

Test has been completed and the new drive is good.
>>

Have you connected the original 160GB drive to a PC and tested it with the manufacturer's diagnostics to see just how dead it is or isn't?
<<
Well, the original 160GB passed the extended test. Maybe not that dead or it's fine. 
>>

We need to be sure your problem is a bad drive and not a power supply with "capacitor plague" since both are possible with that model.
<<
I've already inspected the capacitors and they looked fine. I was also using WD Expander. My hope is that HD is the problem. 
>>

I'll proceed using the original HD. Hopefully, once done, Tivo will start up without a problem. If there's a problem, I'll order a power supply for it.

Many thanks.


----------



## deafwhisperer

Gee... I need to divorce the 160GB before proceeding with JMFS... It was connected to an external HD. I was planning to use one big 2 TB and not use the external HD. 

I tried to divorce it by putting it back in Tivo and start it up. After the "Welcome! Powering Up..." message, it just go blank - No Signal to the TV. Is there another way to divorce it? 

I'm searching for answers in this forum.


----------



## deafwhisperer

According to WinMFS doc:
Mfssplit
Use this option to divorce Tivo "B" drive. All recordings on "B" drive is lost and some recordings on "A" will be lost if it spans across "A" and "B" drives. Use built in divorce for Tivo S3. This function is not supported for Tivo HD.


But has anyone tried this option for Tivo HD anyway? 

I'm pretty much stuck at this point. Any suggestions? All the caps are fine and I don't see any visible problem with the power supply. I've also reset the battery and it doesn't make any difference.


----------



## madscientist

So, the HD in my TivoHD (652160) is starting to go: it still works but I'm getting lots of skipping and artifacts in my shows over the last week or so. This will be my second replacement: I already replaced the factory drive with a 1TB drive a few years ago (I can't remember dates... I really should write this stuff down).

I don't necessarily need to go to a 1.5TB or 2TB drive to get those last few hours available to me with TivoHD: my current 157H is OK. But if it's easy I'll take the extra .

All things being equal I'd like to preserve my shows but if that's not feasible that's OK too. I'm very familiar/more comfortable with UNIX/Linux (I was using dd to create Linux boot floppies back in the early 1990's) but I can do Windows too; it seems like winmfs is now the most modern solution.

Looking around from my last update I have an old instantcake ISO from Jan 2010 or so, if useful for any reason (sounds like not so much, from most comments here).

What's my best bet? I was looking at either WD15EADS or WD10EADS. The newer WD15EARS etc. would be OK too but they have AF... however it seems that this can be overcome these days and is not a show-stopper any longer?

After I have a drive, can I start with my current image and copy it over? Or do I have to start over with a fresh image (from instantcake or similar)? I saw the very interesting and detailed post below; that's with an S3 but would a similar procedure work for me?

Thanks for any thoughts...



Lussie said:


> I have just upgraded my old Tivo S3 (one with the OLED Display) to *2TB* from an *already upgraded 1TB Drive*.
> 
> I didn't lose any shows either. :up:


----------



## unitron

madscientist said:


> So, the HD in my TivoHD (652160) is starting to go: it still works but I'm getting lots of skipping and artifacts in my shows over the last week or so. This will be my second replacement: I already replaced the factory drive with a 1TB drive a few years ago (I can't remember dates... I really should write this stuff down).
> 
> I don't necessarily need to go to a 1.5TB or 2TB drive to get those last few hours available to me with TivoHD: my current 157H is OK. But if it's easy I'll take the extra .
> 
> All things being equal I'd like to preserve my shows but if that's not feasible that's OK too. I'm very familiar/more comfortable with UNIX/Linux (I was using dd to create Linux boot floppies back in the early 1990's) but I can do Windows too; it seems like winmfs is now the most modern solution.
> 
> Looking around from my last update I have an old instantcake ISO from Jan 2010 or so, if useful for any reason (sounds like not so much, from most comments here).
> 
> What's my best bet? I was looking at either WD15EADS or WD10EADS. The newer WD15EARS etc. would be OK too but they have AF... however it seems that this can be overcome these days and is not a show-stopper any longer?
> 
> After I have a drive, can I start with my current image and copy it over? Or do I have to start over with a fresh image (from instantcake or similar)? I saw the very interesting and detailed post below; that's with an S3 but would a similar procedure work for me?
> 
> Thanks for any thoughts...


I put a WD20EADS in my TCD652160.

Later I "Xeroxed" it to a WD20EURS when I managed to grab one for $100 from Amazon. It's designed to be a 24/7 AV drive.

Seems to be working fine so far.

Here's how I originally did the first drive.

Typing it up once in 24 hours is enough.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9382467#post9382467


----------



## unitron

deafwhisperer said:


> According to WinMFS doc:
> Mfssplit
> Use this option to divorce Tivo "B" drive. All recordings on "B" drive is lost and some recordings on "A" will be lost if it spans across "A" and "B" drives. Use built in divorce for Tivo S3. This function is not supported for Tivo HD.
> 
> But has anyone tried this option for Tivo HD anyway?
> 
> I'm pretty much stuck at this point. Any suggestions? All the caps are fine and I don't see any visible problem with the power supply. I've also reset the battery and it doesn't make any difference.


I think that's a different (sort-of) divorce from the one built into the later TiVos designed to use external drives. It's from the PATA/IDE drive days of the Series 1 and Series 2 models.

Try this:

Put the 160 in the S3 HD, and connect the external drive. Power up the external, then the TiVo.

See if you can get to a point where the TiVo can divorce the external.


----------



## madscientist

unitron said:


> Here's how I originally did the first drive.
> 
> Typing it up once in 24 hours is enough.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9382467#post9382467


Aha. I did read that but didn't notice the bit at the bottom "At that point hook both the 1TB and the 2TB to the PC and boot with the jmfs cd v1.04 and let it do a byte for byte copy of the 1TB to the 2TB, and then expand into the rest of the space by adding a single, 16th, MFS Media partition." which is, I'm guessing, where the preserving of the previous show content happens. I thought these instructions only covered creating a new, clean image.

I'll read again more carefully, thanks!


----------



## unitron

madscientist said:


> Aha. I did read that but didn't notice the bit at the bottom "At that point hook both the 1TB and the 2TB to the PC and boot with the jmfs cd v1.04 and let it do a byte for byte copy of the 1TB to the 2TB, and then expand into the rest of the space by adding a single, 16th, MFS Media partition." which is, I'm guessing, where the preserving of the previous show content happens. I thought these instructions only covered creating a new, clean image.
> 
> I'll read again more carefully, thanks!


When jmfs copies, it copies everything, byte for byte (including, unfortunately, Apple Free partitions if they exist).


----------



## deafwhisperer

Put the 160 in the S3 HD, and connect the external drive. Power up the external, then the TiVo.

<<
Yeah, I tried that to go back to the way it was. It doesn't appear to change anything. 
>>


----------



## deafwhisperer

I want to report that my Tivo is working awesome now! It now has a recording time of 318 hrs. 

It turns out the CMOS battery was the problem. Resetting it didn't work. Once the battery was replaced, it started to work. I've not had any problems for a 1 1/2 day so far. 

Thanks for the help! I'm stoked to get more value out of the lifetime subscription on my unit!!!


----------



## unitron

deafwhisperer said:


> I want to report that my Tivo is working awesome now! It now has a recording time of 318 hrs.
> 
> It turns out the CMOS battery was the problem. Resetting it didn't work. Once the battery was replaced, it started to work. I've not had any problems for a 1 1/2 day so far.
> 
> Thanks for the help! I'm stoked to get more value out of the lifetime subscription on my unit!!!


I'm glad to hear that you managed to resuscitate your TiVo.

And thanks for the data point/troubleshooting tip that may help others do the same with theirs.


----------



## AndyJC

So, I've read through as many pages as I can but 300+ is getting unwieldy. I need a few points in the right direction please!

I have a working Tivo HD with what I'm assuming is the 160gb drive. I bought it new so no modifications. I'm using a Windows 7 laptop and purchased a USB to SATA adapter. I also purchase a WD 20EURS drive.

WinMFS looks straightforward to me but what will the outcome be? Will it be 1.26TB of recording space or 2Tb? I'm trying to figure out the special steps, if any, to get to 2Tb. And can I do it with the laptop? Or do I have to use a desktop? I saw the post above about 2Tb, but it involves using a 1tb as well and I'm not sure why...

Any pointers? Thanks in advance!


----------



## unitron

AndyJC said:


> So, I've read through as many pages as I can but 300+ is getting unwieldy. I need a few points in the right direction please!
> 
> I have a working Tivo HD with what I'm assuming is the 160gb drive. I bought it new so no modifications. I'm using a Windows 7 laptop and purchased a USB to SATA adapter. I also purchase a WD 20EURS drive.
> 
> WinMFS looks straightforward to me but what will the outcome be? Will it be 1.26TB of recording space or 2Tb? I'm trying to figure out the special steps, if any, to get to 2Tb. And can I do it with the laptop? Or do I have to use a desktop? I saw the post above about 2Tb, but it involves using a 1tb as well and I'm not sure why...
> 
> Any pointers? Thanks in advance!


If you want to go straight from the 160GB to the 2TB, then skip WinMFS and just use jmfs v1.04

You'll need to be able to connect both drives to the same computer at the same time in order to be able to do that.

And make sure your TiVo has updated to version 11.0k of the TiVo software.

Which it should have done quite some time ago.

The reason I used a 1TB drive as a middleman is because I wanted to increase the size of the swap partition and add a third MFS partition pair, so that no single partition was over 1TB in size.

jmfs just copies the source drive "as is", and then adds one more partition to use up all of the extra space.

In order to answer some of your questions and concerns I'm going to have to do some more experimenting, but I have no idea when I'll be able to get to that, as it involves taking TiVos out of service and using drives that would otherwise be available to take some of the storage pressure off of the TiVos still in service.


----------



## AndyJC

Thanks for the info. Sadly, I'm using a laptop so I can't connect both drives at once. I'll play around with winmfs and see what I can come up with. Thanks again!


----------



## AndyJC

Well, I think they sent me a bad drive.

I was able to hook up my 160 Tivo HD to the Vantec adapter and using winmfs made a backup. I was also able to copy the drive onto another external USB drive.

The new WD drive wasn't visible in winmfs. It did show up in Jmfs, but the copy from my external USB drive to the new 2tb WD failed after only 6gb. It showed up in mfslive as well, but the copy just exited without doing anything.

I tried basically every combination of drives and methods I could think of and think the new drive is bad, so it's going back and I'll try again when another drive arrives...


----------



## unitron

AndyJC said:


> Well, I think they sent me a bad drive.
> 
> I was able to hook up my 160 Tivo HD to the Vantec adapter and using winmfs made a backup. I was also able to copy the drive onto another external USB drive.
> 
> The new WD drive wasn't visible in winmfs. It did show up in Jmfs, but the copy from my external USB drive to the new 2tb WD failed after only 6gb. It showed up in mfslive as well, but the copy just exited without doing anything.
> 
> I tried basically every combination of drives and methods I could think of and think the new drive is bad, so it's going back and I'll try again when another drive arrives...


Whenever one buys a new (or new to you) hard drive, the first thing one should do is run that brand's diagnostic software long test.

Never assume something is good, even if it's new.


----------



## ac3dd

This thread is way too long to read everything, the tools and technologies have changed since the FAQ at the start of the thread was posted, and Google turns up a bunch of outdated pages so I'm kind of lost now and hope one of you experts can point me in the right direction.

I have a WD15EARS 1.5TB which I got last year that I've been using for external backup of my PCs. But I don't really need that much space for backups and so now I'm using a couple of old smaller hard drives for that purpose, with the intention of putting the 1.5TB in my TiVo Series3. In addition to wanting more space, the TiVo has been freezing and rebooting often upon reaching specific spots in various shows, which is presumably because of the hard drive going bad.

I upgraded the TiVo shortly after purchasing it years ago and now I don't have the original drive any more. Will it be possible to do the upgrade while preserving my recordings? Is there still a 1.26TB limitation on the usable space? Does the WD15EARS drive still have the soft-reboot problem?

I don't remember what is the size in GB of the hard drive currently in the TiVo is, but the system information screen says "Up to 70 HD hours, or 610 hours for SD".

I'm running Linux as my main OS, and I have an external eSATA/USB dock plus a USB-only dock. I am comfortable using the Linux command line to do things like make byte-for-byte copies of partitions with dd. I have an available partition and a Windows XP CD so I can install it there if Windows is necessary.

What are the software tools I'll need to get the WD15EARS working in the TiVo S3 and transfer the recordings from the old drive?


----------



## unitron

ac3dd said:


> This thread is way too long to read everything, the tools and technologies have changed since the FAQ at the start of the thread was posted, and Google turns up a bunch of outdated pages so I'm kind of lost now and hope one of you experts can point me in the right direction.
> 
> I have a WD15EARS 1.5TB which I got last year that I've been using for external backup of my PCs. But I don't really need that much space for backups and so now I'm using a couple of old smaller hard drives for that purpose, with the intention of putting the 1.5TB in my TiVo Series3. In addition to wanting more space, the TiVo has been freezing and rebooting often upon reaching specific spots in various shows, which is presumably because of the hard drive going bad.
> 
> I upgraded the TiVo shortly after purchasing it years ago and now I don't have the original drive any more. Will it be possible to do the upgrade while preserving my recordings? Is there still a 1.26TB limitation on the usable space? Does the WD15EARS drive still have the soft-reboot problem?
> 
> I don't remember what is the size in GB of the hard drive currently in the TiVo is, but the system information screen says "Up to 70 HD hours, or 610 hours for SD".
> 
> I'm running Linux as my main OS, and I have an external eSATA/USB dock plus a USB-only dock. I am comfortable using the Linux command line to do things like make byte-for-byte copies of partitions with dd. I have an available partition and a Windows XP CD so I can install it there if Windows is necessary.
> 
> What are the software tools I'll need to get the WD15EARS working in the TiVo S3 and transfer the recordings from the old drive?


The way you transfer recordings is to copy the entire old drive.

It's what you do afterwards to use the extra space on the new drive where the devil is in the details.

By S3 do you mean you have a TCD648250? The one with the front panel that looks like a sideways mercury thermometer, with the OLED display and the buttons?

If so, this post may be of interest.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9168233#post9168233

although I still haven't figured out how he got around the problem of an upgraded drive already having 15 partitions out of the maximum allowable 16, since WinMFS can only add MFS pairs, unlike jmfs which can add a single MFS media partition to S4 and S3 HD and S3 HD XL drives, but apparently can't recognize the original S3 as a TiVo drive, which is odd, because it's pretty much the same as the HD and HD XL.

I'm getting ready to do an experiment to see if not using the "optimized" partition layout makes a difference.

I think the 1.2TB limit might be partition size and not drive size, but I don't know enough to know for sure.

You'll need to make sure you aren't using a GigaByte brand motherboard.

You should run WD's own diagnostics long test on that EARS before committing to using it in the TiVo, and you should run wdidle3 to disable Intellipark on it.

Both are available on the Ultimate Boot cd, along with a bunch of other stuff.

For "Xeroxing" drives, I prefer

dd_rescue -v source target

so that I've got something on the screen showing me what's going on, and so that there's some error handling if necessary.

Now if you have an S3 HD (TCD652160), you can just use the jmfs cd v1.04

The MFS Live cd v1.4 is handy to have around as well.


----------



## unitron

ac3dd said:


> This thread is way too long to read everything, the tools and technologies have changed since the FAQ at the start of the thread was posted, and Google turns up a bunch of outdated pages so I'm kind of lost now and hope one of you experts can point me in the right direction.
> 
> I have a WD15EARS 1.5TB which I got last year that I've been using for external backup of my PCs. But I don't really need that much space for backups and so now I'm using a couple of old smaller hard drives for that purpose, with the intention of putting the 1.5TB in my TiVo Series3. In addition to wanting more space, the TiVo has been freezing and rebooting often upon reaching specific spots in various shows, which is presumably because of the hard drive going bad.
> 
> I upgraded the TiVo shortly after purchasing it years ago and now I don't have the original drive any more. Will it be possible to do the upgrade while preserving my recordings? Is there still a 1.26TB limitation on the usable space? Does the WD15EARS drive still have the soft-reboot problem?
> 
> I don't remember what is the size in GB of the hard drive currently in the TiVo is, but the system information screen says "Up to 70 HD hours, or 610 hours for SD".
> 
> I'm running Linux as my main OS, and I have an external eSATA/USB dock plus a USB-only dock. I am comfortable using the Linux command line to do things like make byte-for-byte copies of partitions with dd. I have an available partition and a Windows XP CD so I can install it there if Windows is necessary.
> 
> What are the software tools I'll need to get the WD15EARS working in the TiVo S3 and transfer the recordings from the old drive?


Thinking in so many directions at once that I forgot I meant to tell you to be sure your problems aren't caused, at least in part, by a power supply developing "capacitor plague".

Becoming rather common for the various S2 and S3 models.


----------



## ac3dd

unitron said:


> Thinking in so many directions at once that I forgot I meant to tell you to be sure your problems aren't caused, at least in part, by a power supply developing "capacitor plague".


Nearly all the reboots I've seen occur at specific points in time within specific shows, and those reboots within shows are 100% repeatable. So for example if it happened at 1:23 in a particular movie, and then after it reboots I fast-forward to 1:21 and wait a couple minutes, upon reaching 1:23 it will freeze for a while and then reboot again.

To finish watching the particular movie I have to use the ff-skip function to jump to a notch past the glitch like 1:30, then rewind until just after the 1:23 sticking point and then it plays normally till the end. Sometimes I'll rewind a little too much such that it resumes just before the sticking point, in which case it freezes and reboots again once it hits the bad spot.

That sort of show-specific time-specific repeatability seems to indicate some sort of data corruption at the point where it freezes and reboots. Wouldn't capacitor problems be more random than that?


----------



## unitron

ac3dd said:


> Nearly all the reboots I've seen occur at specific points in time within specific shows, and those reboots within shows are 100% repeatable. So for example if it happened at 1:23 in a particular movie, and then after it reboots I fast-forward to 1:21 and wait a couple minutes, upon reaching 1:23 it will freeze for a while and then reboot again.
> 
> To finish watching the particular movie I have to use the ff-skip function to jump to a notch past the glitch like 1:30, then rewind until just after the 1:23 sticking point and then it plays normally till the end. Sometimes I'll rewind a little too much such that it resumes just before the sticking point, in which case it freezes and reboots again once it hits the bad spot.
> 
> That sort of show-specific time-specific repeatability seems to indicate some sort of data corruption at the point where it freezes and reboots. Wouldn't capacitor problems be more random than that?


Capacitor problems more random, yes. Or more consistent, like one tuner working and the other one not working, or the unit working until you insert a cable card, and then it crashes and reboots.

But if you're taking the lid off to get to the drive anyway, check the power supply.

And those glitches in the shows might be bad places on the drive or they might be bad places in the data as it came into the TiVo or as the TiVo wrote it to the drive, so that's not absolute proof the drive is bad.


----------



## tvmaster2

it looks like people are listing this as a discontinued model, and the supply has dried up at most places.
any suggestions on a good TiVo HD replacement drive that is 1gb? I have no need for a larger drive
thanks..


----------



## ac3dd

unitron said:


> By S3 do you mean you have a TCD648250? The one with the front panel that looks like a sideways mercury thermometer, with the OLED display and the buttons?


Based on what I can read by holding a mirror at the behind it, the model number looks like TCD6482508 (not sure if that first 6 is really an 8). Yes, it looks like a black thermometor with the bulb at the right side. I think it was the first model of the S3; I bought it near the end of 2006. I wasn't previously aware that there were multiple models of it.



> You'll need to make sure you aren't using a GigaByte brand motherboard.


The computer I'm planning to use for this has an ASUS motherboard. But thanks for the warning, as I have another computer with a Gigabyte mobo.



> You should run WD's own diagnostics long test on that EARS before committing to using it in the TiVo, and you should run wdidle3 to disable Intellipark on it.


Will do.



> For "Xeroxing" drives, I prefer
> 
> dd_rescue -v source target
> 
> so that I've got something on the screen showing me what's going on, and so that there's some error handling if necessary.


So it looks like the copying is the easy part, with the hard part being how to expand the usable capacity.


----------



## ac3dd

unitron said:


> But if you're taking the lid off to get to the drive anyway, check the power supply.


Check it how? Is there something I can see with the naked eye?


----------



## unitron

ac3dd said:


> Check it how? Is there something I can see with the naked eye?


Start here

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=473394

and when you get to post 40 you'll see where I linked to steve614's excellent picture of what to look for.

Of course if you own a voltmeter and/or an oscilloscope, they're useful as well.


----------



## unitron

ac3dd said:


> Based on what I can read by holding a mirror at the behind it, the model number looks like TCD6482508 (not sure if that first 6 is really an 8). Yes, it looks like a black thermometor with the bulb at the right side. I think it was the first model of the S3; I bought it near the end of 2006. I wasn't previously aware that there were multiple models of it.
> 
> The computer I'm planning to use for this has an ASUS motherboard. But thanks for the warning, as I have another computer with a Gigabyte mobo.
> 
> Will do.
> 
> So it looks like the copying is the easy part, with the hard part being how to expand the usable capacity.


GigaByte boards have a nasty habit of putting Host Protected Areas on drives if you don't know to watch out for it and take steps to avoid it.

That's a TCD648250B.

Why there's a B, I have no idea.

It's the first of the S3s, and apparently there was a big HD on the box (for high definition).

Then they came out with a newer, less expensive Series 3 platform unit (the TCD652120) which they just called the HD.

Confusion ensued.

hdparm -N drive

will show if you have an HPA on a drive or not.


----------



## klyde

I have a series 3 with a bad HD, I have mfslive (windows) and have an image with a .bak extension. I find this doesn't work with mfslive (Windows). 
I then booted into the linux iso but I can't figure out how to restore the .bak image. I did a search but find >50 pages in the search. Can somebody Please point me to instructions on converting the .bak to .bkf if possible or how to restore it with the linux.iso boot disk.
I've only used mfslive win version before. I tried restore -s 128 -r 4 -xzpi /dos/mybackup.bak /dev/hdd
as the instructions say but I get an error no such file or directory.

I also tried to mount the drive mount -t vfat /dev/hda1 /dos, hda0 and hda2 and get no such device or directory.
I also see that I can not see what I type but it does respond and I can not page up or down.


----------



## unitron

klyde said:


> I have a series 3 with a bad HD, I have mfslive (windows) and have an image with a .bak extension. I find this doesn't work with mfslive (Windows).
> I then booted into the linux iso but I can't figure out how to restore the .bak image. I did a search but find >50 pages in the search. Can somebody Please point me to instructions on converting the .bak to .bkf if possible or how to restore it with the linux.iso boot disk.
> I've only used mfslive win version before. I tried restore -s 128 -r 4 -xzpi /dos/mybackup.bak /dev/hdd
> as the instructions say but I get an error no such file or directory.


Do you have a TCD648250B, a TCD652160, or a TCD658000?

I have images for all 3.

You don't have mfslive (Windows), you have WinMFS.

Written by the same guy (spike) who turned the old MFS Tools into the MFS Live cd, but the image files are not interchangeable.

The backup image files WinMFS creates have a .tbk extension

Never seen a .bkf extension before

The way you convert a .bak to a .tbk or the other way around is use the right software to restore it to a drive and then use the other right software to make a new image from the drive.

When you booted from the MFS Live cd, it loaded the operating system into memory (RAM) as well as some directories, one of which is

/dos

which really exists to be used as a mount point for whichever actual hard drive partition on which you actually have the image file.

If you didn't mount it properly, it won't be able to find said file.

But you should probably use WinMFS and be done with it, and you can learn Linux tricks later.

So tell me your model number so I can steer you to the right .tbk file.

I'm assuming that .bak file you have wasn't made from your TiVo.

And are you sure it's the hard drive that's bad and not the power supply?

And does your PC have a GigaByte brand motherboard?


----------



## klyde

Im at my brothers and its his tivo. The drive is bad for sure, the .bak image I got off the forum, the bkf was a typo.
We have a 1tb to use as a replacement. The model is BCD648250b

His compuet must be an off brand its ABN-La the only thing I can see stenciled on the MB.

thank you very much


----------



## ac3dd

After I run dd_rescue to copy the contents of existing (upgraded) TiVo hard drive to the 1.5TB drive, I'm thinking of using the steps on the page linked below to expand the usable capacity. Do you have any warnings that haven't already been stated today?

http://www.bumwine.com/tivo.html


> 10. While this 'dd' command is running, get ready for the next step. Open a web browser window and go to mfstools.sourceforge.net then click on the gzipped tar static link. Save the file to your Knoppix desktop.
> 
> 11. Double-click the file on your desktop. This will open the contents of the archive. Drag 'mfstools' from the archive onto your desktop to expand.
> 
> 12. To expand the partition, type '/home/knoppix/Desktop/mfstool add -x /dev/sdb -r 4' where 'sdb' is the name of your new hard drive and hit enter to expand the capactiy of your new hard drive to its full potential. Don't worry, if you try to expand your original drive, nothing bad happens, it just tells you that it's already at capacity.


EDIT: Upon closer reading of that page, it looks like this might not work properly if I'm upgrading from something other than the original factory drive. So it looks like I'll have to study another solution.


----------



## unitron

klyde said:


> Im at my brothers and its his tivo. The drive is bad for sure, the .bak image I got off the forum, the bkf was a typo.
> We have a 1tb to use as a replacement. The model is BCD648250b
> 
> His compuet must be an off brand its ABN-La the only thing I can see stenciled on the MB.
> 
> thank you very much


That's probably an Asus A8N board, the typeface they use makes an 8 and a B very similar in appearance.

648 images here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8921060#post8921060

If you're already accustomed to using WinMFS, use the one that ends in .tbk

What's the brand and model number of that 1TB drive you're going to use?


----------



## klyde

I found a image with google and were waiting for the program info to finish loading now 63% all looks good with an expanded 1tb drive.
thanks all. When you only do this once every 3-5 years one has to relearn everything.


----------



## unitron

ac3dd said:


> After I run dd_rescue to copy the contents of existing (upgraded) TiVo hard drive to the 1.5TB drive, I'm thinking of using the steps on the page linked below to expand the usable capacity. Do you have any warnings that haven't already been stated today?
> 
> http://www.bumwine.com/tivo.html


It seems odd they recommend WinMFS, but don't understand that the MFS Live cd makes their page just as obsolete.

Go to mfslive.org and download the .iso of the MFS Live cd v1.4 and burn it to cd as an image.

You can boot from it and run

dd_rescue

However, if the theory I'm getting ready to test shows what I'm starting to suspect, that WinMFS can enlarge an existing partition if it's got free space right after it, then it would be necessary to not use the "optimized" partition layout on the target drive.

Which means using either WinMFS or the MFS Live cd to do the copying.

If using the command line (after booting with the MFS Live cd), then one would omit the

-p

option when invoking the

restore

command

The

-z

is probably also not necessary,

and the

-r 'number'

is likely no longer necessary.


----------



## ac3dd

I ran the WD diagnostics last night on the WD15EARS and it was OK.

Today I tried to run WDIDLE3 after booting with the Ultimate Boot CD. First I ran WDIDLE3 /R and it gave

Idle 3 Timer is enabled and set to 8.000 seconds.

But when I did WDIDLE3 /S300, it got stuck at "Configure Idle3." and has been stuck there for the past 10 minutes as of the time of this message.

How long is it supposed to take? Or is it failing? Am I doing something wrong? Do I need to change something in the BIOS to get it to work?


----------



## ac3dd

Now I see what may have been confounding my situation with WDIDLE3. The 1.5TB drive is in an eSATA dock, but I remembered that the 320GB internal drive is also Western Digital! The WDIDLE3 may have been trying to operate on the internal one, which wouldn't respond to WDIDLE3. Fortunately, after rebooting into my regular OS, it seems like it hasn't done any damage.

So it looks like I'll have to open up the system to disconnect the internal WD drive, as the BIOS doesn't seem to have any option to disable the drive. That will have to wait for another day.


----------



## madscientist

Hi all; I previously posted a question about this and unitron pointed me to his post on the subject.

My system is a TiVo HD 652160 and my current drive is a WD10EVCS.
So I obtained a WD20EURS drive and attempted to follow along. However I did a few things differently.

First, my current drive is still working to some level: I'm getting a lot of glitchiness in playback, artifacts, etc. but the system still works. So instead of starting with a fresh .tbk I instead took out my current drive and used winmfs (winmfs_beta9_3f) to create a .tbk (truncated backup) from that.

Then I put in the new drive and loaded the .tbk onto it. There was no option to request an "optimized partition layout" anywhere that I saw. However after it copied things over it asked me if I wanted to expand. I said yes. It said "You are about to create a partition larger than 1TB. It's too large for a stock TiVo to support. Do you want to limit it to 1TB?" Based on my understanding of unitron's post I said "yes". One annoying thing about this popup is it comes up BEHIND all existing windows so I didn't see it for a long time.

After it was done I looked at the partition info and I had 15 partitions with the last one being about 1TB. Unfortunately (stupid!) I forgot to save a copy.

So I then hooked up both the old and new drives to my system and booted jmfs 1.04 from a thumbdrive. It came up and I copied the contents of the old drive to the new drive. That took probably about 6 to 7 hours.

Then I asked it to expand the drive, which it did.

Then unitron's post says you should boot back into winmfs to do the supersize (does the jmfs supersize option not work on a TiVo HD?) so I hooked back up my Windows drive and rebooted.

Here is where things started to go wrong. First, the supersize operation in winmfs failed (no message except "failed"). Second, I checked the Info for the drive, and now I have 17 partitions, not the expected 16 partitions: there's a small, 9MB partition in between the first 1TB partition (15) and the second (17). I think that is causing problems. I did save the info this time:



Code:


...
 10              MFS MFS application region          [email protected]   ( 288.0M)
 11              MFS MFS media region             [email protected]   (  65.6G)
 12              MFS Second MFS application region    [email protected] ( 288.0M)
 13              MFS Second MFS media region      [email protected] (  82.0G)
 14              MFS New MFS Application               [email protected] (   1.0M)
 15              MFS New MFS Media               [email protected] (782.1G)
 16       Apple_Free Extra                            [email protected](9.7M)
 17              MFS MFS media region 2          [email protected](931.5G)

Just for kicks I rebooted back into jmfs and tried that supersize but that also gave an error (and also no other interesting messages).

So, just to see what would happen, I put the new drive into the TiVo and booted it up. It gave me an error saying there was no external drive attached and did I want to divorce the external drive; that doing so would lost most or all the shows in Now Playing. I don't have an external drive or a second drive of any kind. Just to see what would happen I said "OK".

After that (and waiting a while) the TiVo booted up and all my existing Now Playing shows are still there (I tried playing the newest and oldest just to see and they did play). However, my storage capacity is exactly what it was with my old 1TB drive (157 HD hours).

So, I must have done something wrong. I'm not sure how that little partition 16 snuck in. I'm assuming that's the root of all my problems. Is there a way to recreate partition 16 as a single large without destroying the rest of the partition contents, and re-copying the entire 1TB drive? I haven't tested this but my theory is that divorcing the phantom external drive may have deleted that extra partition 17 and that's why I don't have any more space than before.

I couldn't quite tell from unitron's previous post, but should I expect to be able to see the entire 2TB for storage on this system? I've seen conflicting reports. If all I can expect to get is the extra 200M or so to get me up to 1.2TB, maybe it's not worth messing around with it.


----------



## John Wilson

Not to derail madscientist's question but I have an unrelated question for somebody in the know...

Any guesses as to what drive might be lurking inside this WD external drive?

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=5388044&sku=W10-9016

Not a bad price for a 2TB drive that could be used in a TiVo expansion project. 

Thanks.


----------



## ThAbtO

John Wilson said:


> Not to derail madscientist's question but I have an unrelated question for somebody in the know...
> 
> Any guesses as to what drive might be lurking inside this WD external drive?
> 
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=5388044&sku=W10-9016
> 
> Not a bad price for a 2TB drive that could be used in a TiVo expansion project.
> 
> Thanks.


If you are thinking of using it as an external drive for Tivo, it would not work. It is USB and Tivo use eSATA.


----------



## ac3dd

ThAbtO said:


> If you are thinking of using it as an external drive for Tivo, it would not work. It is USB and Tivo use eSATA.


I think that John Wilson is planning to open up that enclosure and use the raw drive inside it, and is wondering if it is a TiVo-compatible SATA drive in there.


----------



## John Wilson

ThAbtO said:


> If you are thinking of using it as an external drive for Tivo, it would not work. It is USB and Tivo use eSATA.


Actually, I was planning to take it out of the enclosure and use it as a larger drive for my TiVo Premiere. I was just looking for guesses as to what model hard drive might be inside the enclosure. $79 for 2TB is not bad.

Edit: ac3dd beat me to it!


----------



## ac3dd

I'd be very wary about the drive in that enclosure. It could be some proprietary Western Digital-only interface instead of a standard like SATA.

Even if somebody else previously bought one with a SATA drive inside, there's no guarantee that yours came from the same batch and has the same internals. Once you open it up and it's not what you expect, you can't return it!


----------



## unitron

John Wilson said:


> Not to derail madscientist's question but I have an unrelated question for somebody in the know...
> 
> Any guesses as to what drive might be lurking inside this WD external drive?
> 
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=5388044&sku=W10-9016
> 
> Not a bad price for a 2TB drive that could be used in a TiVo expansion project.
> 
> Thanks.


Several different models have been reported as being inside that case at different times, so basically it'll probably be whatever 2TB drive they have handy when the case comes down the assembly line, with the possible exception that it won't be a WD20EURS or other AV-specific drive.

And the warranty period will be shorter than if you bought whichever model by itself.

If there's a Comp-USA store in your state, you'll pay sales tax on anything from TigerDirect, you might want to see how much newegg is asking for it.


----------



## unitron

madscientist said:


> Hi all; I previously posted a question about this and unitron pointed me to his post on the subject.
> 
> My system is a TiVo HD 652160 and my current drive is a WD10EVCS.
> So I obtained a WD20EURS drive and attempted to follow along. However I did a few things differently.
> 
> First, my current drive is still working to some level: I'm getting a lot of glitchiness in playback, artifacts, etc. but the system still works. So instead of starting with a fresh .tbk I instead took out my current drive and used winmfs (winmfs_beta9_3f) to create a .tbk (truncated backup) from that.
> 
> Then I put in the new drive and loaded the .tbk onto it. There was no option to request an "optimized partition layout" anywhere that I saw. However after it copied things over it asked me if I wanted to expand. I said yes. It said "You are about to create a partition larger than 1TB. It's too large for a stock TiVo to support. Do you want to limit it to 1TB?" Based on my understanding of unitron's post I said "yes". One annoying thing about this popup is it comes up BEHIND all existing windows so I didn't see it for a long time.
> 
> After it was done I looked at the partition info and I had 15 partitions with the last one being about 1TB. Unfortunately (stupid!) I forgot to save a copy.
> 
> So I then hooked up both the old and new drives to my system and booted jmfs 1.04 from a thumbdrive. It came up and I copied the contents of the old drive to the new drive. That took probably about 6 to 7 hours.
> 
> Then I asked it to expand the drive, which it did.
> 
> Then unitron's post says you should boot back into winmfs to do the supersize (does the jmfs supersize option not work on a TiVo HD?) so I hooked back up my Windows drive and rebooted.
> 
> Here is where things started to go wrong. First, the supersize operation in winmfs failed (no message except "failed"). Second, I checked the Info for the drive, and now I have 17 partitions, not the expected 16 partitions: there's a small, 9MB partition in between the first 1TB partition (15) and the second (17). I think that is causing problems. I did save the info this time:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> ...
> 10              MFS MFS application region          [email protected]   ( 288.0M)
> 11              MFS MFS media region             [email protected]   (  65.6G)
> 12              MFS Second MFS application region    [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 13              MFS Second MFS media region      [email protected] (  82.0G)
> 14              MFS New MFS Application               2[email protected]4 (   1.0M)
> 15              MFS New MFS Media               [email protected] (782.1G)
> 16       Apple_Free Extra                            [email protected](9.7M)
> 17              MFS MFS media region 2          [email protected](931.5G)
> 
> Just for kicks I rebooted back into jmfs and tried that supersize but that also gave an error (and also no other interesting messages).
> 
> So, just to see what would happen, I put the new drive into the TiVo and booted it up. It gave me an error saying there was no external drive attached and did I want to divorce the external drive; that doing so would lost most or all the shows in Now Playing. I don't have an external drive or a second drive of any kind. Just to see what would happen I said "OK".
> 
> After that (and waiting a while) the TiVo booted up and all my existing Now Playing shows are still there (I tried playing the newest and oldest just to see and they did play). However, my storage capacity is exactly what it was with my old 1TB drive (157 HD hours).
> 
> So, I must have done something wrong. I'm not sure how that little partition 16 snuck in. I'm assuming that's the root of all my problems. Is there a way to recreate partition 16 as a single large without destroying the rest of the partition contents, and re-copying the entire 1TB drive? I haven't tested this but my theory is that divorcing the phantom external drive may have deleted that extra partition 17 and that's why I don't have any more space than before.
> 
> I couldn't quite tell from unitron's previous post, but should I expect to be able to see the entire 2TB for storage on this system? I've seen conflicting reports. If all I can expect to get is the extra 200M or so to get me up to 1.2TB, maybe it's not worth messing around with it.


That post of mine would have applied if you were still using the original 160GB drive and had shows on it you want to save and had the temporary use of the WD10EVCS to act as a middleman, and wanted, like I did, to enlarge the swap partition size.

I'll try to address your post much more fully tonight, probably late.

In the meantime...

Run WinMFS on just the 1TB drive and click on mfsinfo and save the results and post it.

We need to see its partition map to see if it has a 16th partition on it.

Which software did you use to upgrade from the original 160GB drive to the 1TB?


----------



## unitron

ac3dd said:


> Now I see what may have been confounding my situation with WDIDLE3. The 1.5TB drive is in an eSATA dock, but I remembered that the 320GB internal drive is also Western Digital! The WDIDLE3 may have been trying to operate on the internal one, which wouldn't respond to WDIDLE3. Fortunately, after rebooting into my regular OS, it seems like it hasn't done any damage.
> 
> So it looks like I'll have to open up the system to disconnect the internal WD drive, as the BIOS doesn't seem to have any option to disable the drive. That will have to wait for another day.


If that 320GB drive is your PC's boot drive (the one with Windows or some other OS on it), you probably don't want Intellipark running on it, either, unless you leave the computer on around the clock but don't actually use it much.

Connect only one WD drive at at time to the motherboard (Make sure it's not a GigaByte brand or we'll have to figure something else out).

I'm pretty sure that the command you want is

wdidle3 /d

for disable.

Only if it refuses to accept that should you try the alternate way of

wdidle3 /s300.

Do the boot drive first, then disconnect it and connect the 1.5TB drive in its place and do it again.


----------



## ac3dd

unitron said:


> If that 320GB drive is your PC's boot drive (the one with Windows or some other OS on it), you probably don't want Intellipark running on it, either, unless you leave the computer on around the clock but don't actually use it much.


Even though it's installed a desktop case, the 320GB drive is a 2.5" drive made in 2008 (model WD3200BEVT to be exact), so I don't think it has Intellipark or firmware that responds to WDIDLE3.


----------



## unitron

ac3dd said:


> Even though it's installed a desktop case, the 320GB drive is a 2.5" drive made in 2008 (model WD3200BEVT to be exact), so I don't think it has Intellipark or firmware that responds to WDIDLE3.


But it is a WD, so don't have both drives hooked up when you run wdidle3 and avoid any possiblilty of confusing it.


----------



## ac3dd

unitron said:


> But it is a WD, so don't have both drives hooked up when you run wdidle3 and avoid any possiblilty of confusing it.


Yes, that's exactly what I wrote yesterday. This will probably have to wait until the weekend when I have more time.



ac3dd said:


> Now I see what may have been confounding my situation with WDIDLE3. The 1.5TB drive is in an eSATA dock, but I remembered that the 320GB internal drive is also Western Digital! The WDIDLE3 may have been trying to operate on the internal one, which wouldn't respond to WDIDLE3. Fortunately, after rebooting into my regular OS, it seems like it hasn't done any damage.
> 
> So it looks like I'll have to open up the system to disconnect the internal WD drive, as the BIOS doesn't seem to have any option to disable the drive. That will have to wait for another day.


----------



## madscientist

unitron said:


> That post of mine would have applied if you were still using the original 160GB drive and had shows on it you want to save and had the temporary use of the WD10EVCS to act as a middleman, and wanted, like I did, to enlarge the swap partition size.


Ah, sorry, I misunderstood the details of the original situation in your post.



unitron said:


> I'll try to address your post much more fully tonight, probably late.
> 
> In the meantime...
> 
> Run WinMFS on just the 1TB drive and click on mfsinfo and save the results and post it.
> 
> We need to see its partition map to see if it has a 16th partition on it.
> 
> Which software did you use to upgrade from the original 160GB drive to the 1TB?


I'll get the msfinfo output but it'll have to wait until a little later (probably after 11:30pm EST) since my son is using his computer (he has the only desktop Windows system in the house: my systems are Linux only).

It's been a while ago since I did the update to 1TB (I believe I did it in Jan 2010), but I'm pretty sure I used an instantcake image to do it (I have one here on my system, that's for sure). I had an external drive on the system at that time (with the original disk) but I never hooked it back up after I upgraded the internal drive. To the best of my recollection I didn't save any Now Playing content from my previous drive.


----------



## madscientist

Whoa, you're exactly right unitron; I have a 16th partition on my original 1TB drive:


Code:


Partition Maps
 #:                  type name                            length base      ( size  )
  1   Apple_partition_map Apple                               [email protected]         (  31.5K)
  2                 Image Bootstrap 1                          [email protected]        ( 512.0 )
  3                 Image Kernel 1                          [email protected]        (   4.0M)
  4                  Ext2 Root 1                          [email protected]      ( 256.0M)
  5                 Image Bootstrap 2                          [email protected]    ( 512.0 )
  6                 Image Kernel 2                          [email protected]    (   4.0M)
  7                  Ext2 Root 2                          [email protected]    ( 256.0M)
  8                  Swap Linux swap                     104[email protected]   ( 512.0M)
  9                  Ext2 /var                            [email protected]   ( 256.0M)
 10                   MFS MFS application region          [email protected]   ( 288.0M)
 11                   MFS MFS media region             [email protected]   (  65.6G)
 12                   MFS Second MFS application region    [email protected] ( 288.0M)
 13                   MFS Second MFS media region      [email protected] (  82.0G)
 14                   MFS New MFS Application               [email protected] (   1.0M)
 15                   MFS New MFS Media               [email protected] ( 782.1G)
 16            Apple_Free Extra                            [email protected](   9.7M)

Knowing me, I'm quite positive that I did not use winmfs when I expanded my previous system to 1TB. I almost certainly used mfslive instead. Based on your experience, then, it would seem to make sense that I have that extra partition. This didn't hurt anything before but obviously it hurts now that I would like to add a real 16th partition.

I'm pretty familiar with Linux systems and partition tables, etc. as I've been working with Linux since 1993, before Linux 1.0 was released, and in all the years in between as well. Do you know if this is a regular Linux partition table? Can I just restore the .tbk file onto the 2TB disk then go in with jmfs and use fdisk to delete that extra partition before I redo the copy?

Or, maybe I can use jmfs to edit the 2TB disk to delete the extra partitions then re-expand.

Hm. I'll play with this.

Any thoughts anyone has are welcome.


----------



## madscientist

Ugh. No, fdisk doesn't work on TiVo drives. jmfs is perfect for what it does; it would be really cool if it offered an expert mode that let you do fdisk-like things with a TiVo drive, such as delete partitions.

Hm. Unless someone has some cool utilities to edit TiVo partition tables, it looks like I'll have to follow unitron's procedures more closely: start with a basic 160GB .tbk file (downloaded I guess) and restore that onto the new drive, then put that drive back into the TiVo to sync it up and get the right TiVo serial numbers, etc., then take it back out and use jmfs to perform the copy and expansion.


----------



## unitron

madscientist said:


> Ugh. No, fdisk doesn't work on TiVo drives. jmfs is perfect for what it does; it would be really cool if it offered an expert mode that let you do fdisk-like things with a TiVo drive, such as delete partitions.
> 
> Hm. Unless someone has some cool utilities to edit TiVo partition tables, it looks like I'll have to follow unitron's procedures more closely: start with a basic 160GB .tbk file (downloaded I guess) and restore that onto the new drive, then put that drive back into the TiVo to sync it up and get the right TiVo serial numbers, etc., then take it back out and use jmfs to perform the copy and expansion.


Do you have shows you want to save on that 1TB drive?

What about settings?


----------



## madscientist

unitron said:


> Do you have shows you want to save on that 1TB drive?
> 
> What about settings?


My hope was to preserve everything (shows and settings). Annoying that a little 9.7M partition is thwarting my amazing plans!


----------



## unitron

madscientist said:


> My hope was to preserve everything (shows and settings). Annoying that a little 9.7M partition is thwarting my amazing plans!


(I note that somehow you wound up with the non-optimized partition layout, where partition 2 follows partition 1 instead of partition 13 being physically second. This may work in your favor)

It's not a Linux partition table, it's an Apple Partition Map.

It does not use a DOS/IBM-PC type Master Boot Record at all.

fdisk

anybody's version, if it looks for an MBR, it can't do anything to a TiVo drive but screw it up.

Have you ever done any work on the command line with

hdparm

?

I may know a trick or two you can use to get what you want.

Of course if you had the temporary use of another 1TB drive with nothing on it, that would be simpler and safer.

Just copy (mfscopy, I think) using WinMFS and specify a swap partition size that's too large, so that you get a target not big enough error message, then reduce the swap size 1MB at a time till it's just barely small enough not to get the error message, and that should soak up the Apple Free partition.

Then you can use jmfs.

Otherwise, we need to make the 2TB think it's around 1TB by putting a Host Protected Area, whose size we specify, on it, and use WinMFS's mfscopy to fill that area with only 15 partitions, and then we remove the HPA, and let jmfs add a single MFS Media partition to fill the other 1TB.

That's the theory.

I hope to get things re-arranged and squared away around here enough to let me run the experiments tonight or tomorrow.


----------



## madscientist

unitron said:


> It's not a Linux partition table, it's an Apple Partition Map.


Thanks for that info. I see that this page may contain useful information. It would be super-handy if jmfs included one or both of these tools, for those of us who need to drop into the command line.

Maybe I'll try booting with a Linux live DVD and see if I can get a copy of these programs, and see if they work manipulating the partition table on the TiVo system.

ETA: looks like GNU fdisk is a replacement for standard fdisk that attempts to include mac-fdisk capabilities as well...


----------



## unitron

madscientist said:


> ...and see if they work manipulating the partition table on the TiVo system...


That's something you probably don't want to rush into.

If you start reading here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9168233#post9168233

you may learn some useful things.


----------



## madscientist

I was going to try it on the 2TB drive first just to see if it worked. That drive is now somewhat out of date with my latest shows so I'll probably re-copy it.

However that thread is very interesting, thank you. One thing I did notice is that there was some confusion about the right reply to the "should I create a partition >1TB" question; I answered "No" because I thought both the original (15) and new (correct 16) partitions would be <1TB. And I thought the kernel in the TiVoHD did not support >1TB partition sizes. But it seems from that thread others were answering "Yes" and having more success... ?? Maybe a TiVo update has fixed the max partition size issue since the thread was started?

However I'm not sure any of that matters, if my real problem is the itty-bitty partition.


----------



## unitron

madscientist said:


> I was going to try it on the 2TB drive first just to see if it worked. That drive is now somewhat out of date with my latest shows so I'll probably re-copy it.
> 
> However that thread is very interesting, thank you. One thing I did notice is that there was some confusion about the right reply to the "should I create a partition >1TB" question; I answered "No" because I thought both the original (15) and new (correct 16) partitions would be <1TB. And I thought the kernel in the TiVoHD did not support >1TB partition sizes. But it seems from that thread others were answering "Yes" and having more success... ?? Maybe a TiVo update has fixed the max partition size issue since the thread was started?
> 
> However I'm not sure any of that matters, if my real problem is the itty-bitty partition.


That Apple Free partition is what keeps you from having success with jmfs.

The way it's doing it is by being the 16th partition on the drive.

( A "quirk" of the Apple Partition Map is that unpartitioned space is considered a partition)

16 is the limit on the number of partitions on an individual TiVo drive.

Which means jmfs copies everything, including that 16th partition, then adds a single MFS Media partition when it "expands", which becomes the 17th partition.

The TiVo, because of the 16 partition per drive limit, sees the 17th partition and things it's a screwed up external drive and offers to divorce it, which it does by deleting it, which leaves you back where you started.


----------



## ac3dd

Am I screwed if the upgraded drive which I'm going to copy from already has more than 14 partitions? Or is it OK to have 15 but 16 is a problem?


----------



## unitron

ac3dd said:


> Am I screwed if the upgraded drive which I'm going to copy from already has more than 14 partitions? Or is it OK to have 15 but 16 is a problem?


It depends.

The stock 160GB S3 HD drive comes with 2 MFS pairs, partitions 10 and 11, and partitions 12 and 13.

Using the MFS Live cd or WinMFS to upgrade to a bigger drive results in a third MFS pair being added to fill up the extra space, and that brings you up to 15 partitions, which means you can add one more using the jmfs cd v1.04.

The catch is that when the 3rd MFS pair is added, that has to use up all of the space on the upgrade drive. If not, then even a small amount of leftover space will, because of the way the Apple Partition Map scheme works, be labeled an Apple Free Partition (that's right, unpartitioned space is a partition--now you know what Apple meant by "think different").

When that happens the Apple Free partition becomes partition 16, and that's the limit per single TiVo drive. The first thing jmfs does is "Xerox" the source drive to the target drive. That means it copies the Apple Free partition as well. Then when jmfs goes to expand by adding a single MFS media partition, that partition is the 17th one on the drive. TiVo no like that. TiVo throw up.

In my experience so far, the otherwise excellent MFS Live cd leaves a little space when it adds the 3rd MFS pair, and there doesn't seem to be a way to juggle anything to prevent that. WinMFS, on the other hand, will use all of the available space.

So use WinMFS's mfsinfo to get the partition map and copy and paste it here so we know what we're dealing with.

Alternately, use the MFS Live cd and

pdisk -l /dev/sd"x"

(where "x" is a or b or whatever is necessary to refer to the TiVo drive and not your Windows drive or DVD or whatever)

and redirect the output to a text file that you can paste here.

Refresh my memory, do you have a TCD652160?


----------



## ac3dd

unitron said:


> Refresh my memory, do you have a TCD652160?


No, I have the TCD648250B.

The drive in there is a 500GB purchased in Feb. 2007 from Weaknees with the TiVo software preinstalled. So it has whatever partitioning scheme Weaknees was using back then.

I'm thinking of buying a couple capacitors to have on hand just in case I see the capacitors are bad when I open it up. But what type of equipment is needed to remove the old capacitors safely and install the new ones?

*EDIT*: It looks like I'll need a soldering iron. I've never used one before, so I'm not going to try it for the first time on an expensive device like TiVo. I'll have to learn that another day. If the caps are bad I'll just need to buy a new power supply.


----------



## unitron

ac3dd said:


> No, I have the TCD648250B.


Okay, that kind of changes things if you want to put a 2TB drive in there.

jmfs was designed to work with the Premiere and for some reason will work with the later S3s, the HD and HD XL, as well, but I haven't seen any reports of success using it with the original S3, which is what you have.



ac3dd said:


> The drive in there is a 500GB purchased in Feb. 2007 from Weaknees with the TiVo software preinstalled. So it has whatever partitioning scheme Weaknees was using back then.


And since I don't and didn't work there or ever buy a drive from them, I have no idea what that partition map is, so I still need for you to get the info from your drive and post it here.

Since Weaknees apparently uses their own voodoo instead of what we have access to, you might only have the original 13 partition-2 MFS pairs arrangement, only with the MFS partitions bigger than on the original 250GB drive (what happened to yours, by the way?)

If this is so, you may be able to use WinMFS to copy the 500GB Weaknees drive to the 2TB and then expand by letting WinMFS install a 3rd MFS pair.

Maybe you can be our test subject.



ac3dd said:


> I'm thinking of buying a couple capacitors to have on hand just in case I see the capacitors are bad when I open it up. But what type of equipment is needed to remove the old capacitors safely and install the new ones?


You need a #10 Torx bit to remove the screws that hold the power supply down to the standoffs on the chassis, and a slightly smaller #8 or #9 Torx bit to remove the little screw that goes in from the outside to secure the top of the AC input jack to the back of the chassis.

Then you need a somewhat high wattage soldering iron, or better yet a soldering gun, to unsolder the old caps and solder in the new ones.

It wouldn't hurt to have something additional to remove the solder after melting it when taking out the old caps.

There are "solder suckers" which have a spring loaded piston which creates a vacuum and sucks the molten solder up into its cylinder, there are things that look like soldering irons with a squeeze bulb added that are actually de-soldering irons--Radio Shack has one that's not too bad, and you might be able to get by with just it, since you can use it to melt solder when installing the new capacitors as well--and there are rolls of solder wick, which is basically very small copper wires woven together (similar to the shield on shielded cables) that will absorb molten solder by capillary action, but you want to avoid Radio Shack's version of that. They used to have some that wasn't too horrible, but they replaced it with absolute junk.

I assume you've already educated yourself on the need to use low-ESR caps which are also rated for 105 degrees celsius/centigrade, have the same uF (microFarad) rating as what they're replacing, and the same voltage rating or the next higher one?


----------



## A J Ricaud

Newegg has these for $99 right now:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...12-Index-_-InternalHardDrives-_-22136783-L04B


----------



## ac3dd

unitron said:


> Okay, that kind of changes things if you want to put a 2TB drive in there.


The drive I want to install is 1.5TB. I can live with only using 1TB of it if it's too much trouble to get 1.35 or more.


----------



## unitron

ac3dd said:


> The drive I want to install is 1.5TB. I can live with only using 1TB of it if it's too much trouble to get 1.35 or more.


Still need to see that partition map before I can advise you further.


----------



## unitron

A J Ricaud said:


> Newegg has these for $99 right now:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...12-Index-_-InternalHardDrives-_-22136783-L04B


Good, maybe that'll force Amazon's price back down as well.

Funny, all the tons of email I get from newegg advertising sales and nary a mention of this one.

EDIT:

'n sho nuff, all of a sudden Amazon can afford to part with them cheaper as well.

http://www.amazon.com/WD-AV-GP-TB-Hard-Drive/dp/B0042AG9V8


----------



## Stylin

A J Ricaud said:


> Newegg has these for $99 right now:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...12-Index-_-InternalHardDrives-_-22136783-L04B


I have an orig Series 3 oled TCD648250B and ordered the WD20EURS 2TB from Newegg (no tax for me), but am wondering if this would be a better choice Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB SATA 3.0 (3 Gb/s) 7200 RPM 3.5" WDBAAZ0020HNC -- Staples $105

Will it work in orig Series 3?


----------



## unitron

Stylin said:


> I have an orig Series 3 oled TCD648250B and ordered the WD20EURS 2TB from Newegg (no tax for me), but am wondering if this would be a better choice Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB SATA 3.0 (3 Gb/s) 7200 RPM 3.5" WDBAAZ0020HNC -- Staples $105
> 
> Will it work in orig Series 3?


For a TiVo, the WD20EURS makes more sense because it runs at a lower RPM and cooler. The TiVo can't take advantage of the extra RPM, and the Caviar Blacks, although very nice drives, get kind of toasty.

That is (or was) a good price for a drive with that performance and a 5 year warranty.

I just clicked on that link and the price is now $120.

The WD20EURS is also specifically designed to be an A/V drive, it worries less about being completely error free and more about capturing everything sent to it. With video, better to have one byte wrong than to miss several or more because it's tied up doing error correction on that first byte.

For situations like saving spreadsheets and databases and the great American novel you're working on, the Black is better because it and the PC can negotiate how fast the data are sent to it, and it can spend more time making sure it has every byte right.

So stick the Green in your TiVo and fill a tower case with those Blacks and back up your shows to there.


----------



## Stylin

Thanks Unitron for clarifying. I'm glad I'm going with the right drive. For some reason I had in my mind that Caviar's were always the better drive (warranty), so feel much better purchasing one that is specifically designed dvr's. Plus, I can take comfort in the fact I've read about successful upgrades using WD20EURS. 

Now I just have to find someone to do the upgrade when the drive arrives lol. Been reading this thread and it's above my intelligence lol, not to mention I do not have access to a desktop.

Oh, the Caviar Black WDBAAZ0020HNC ends up being $105 after using $15 off coupon code 90889. It's currently oos, but the sale is all week, so will probably come back into stock.


----------



## unitron

Stylin said:


> Thanks Unitron for clarifying. I'm glad I'm going with the right drive. For some reason I had in my mind that Caviar's were always the better drive (warranty), so feel much better purchasing one that is specifically designed dvr's. Plus, I can take comfort in the fact I've read about successful upgrades using WD20EURS.
> 
> Now I just have to find someone to do the upgrade when the drive arrives lol. Been reading this thread and it's above my intelligence lol, not to mention I do not have access to a desktop.
> 
> Oh, the Caviar Black WDBAAZ0020HNC ends up being $105 after using $15 off coupon code 90889. It's currently oos, but the sale is all week, so will probably come back into stock.


The Black is a good drive, I grabbed some of the 1TB version a couple or three Black Fridays ago at Best Buy (before the flood that pumped up prices so badly), and I've got two of them (with JMicron chipset IDE/SATA adapters) in my mom's Series 2 Dual Tuner (along with extra cooling, cause the Blacks get pretty warm), and one in an S2 DT of mine (again, with extra cooling), and they're still chugging along just fine.


----------



## ac3dd

unitron said:


> And since I don't and didn't work there or ever buy a drive from them, I have no idea what that partition map is, so I still need for you to get the info from your drive and post it here.


I successfully ran WDIDLE3 on the 1.5TB drive, and then MFS tools to get the partition map on the old 500GB drive, which is quoted below.



Code:


Partition Maps
 #:                  type name                            length base      ( size  )
  1   Apple_partition_map Apple                               [email protected]         (  31.5K)
  2                 Image Bootstrap 1                       [email protected] (   2.0M)
  3                 Image Kernel 1                          [email protected] (   2.0M)
  4                  Ext2 Root 1                          [email protected] ( 128.0M)
  5                 Image Bootstrap 2                       [email protected] (   2.0M)
  6                 Image Kernel 2                          [email protected] (   2.0M)
  7                  Ext2 Root 2                          [email protected] ( 128.0M)
  8                  Swap Linux swap                      [email protected] ( 127.0M)
  9                  Ext2 /var                            [email protected] ( 256.0M)
 10                   MFS MFS application region          [email protected] ( 288.0M)
 11                   MFS MFS media region             [email protected] ( 103.4G)
 12                   MFS Second MFS application region    [email protected] ( 288.0M)
 13                   MFS Second MFS media region      [email protected]        ( 128.1G)
 14                   MFS New MFS Application               [email protected] ( 512.0K)
 15                   MFS New MFS Media                [email protected] ( 233.1G)
 16            Apple_Free Extra                             [email protected] (   2.0M)

One of the capacitors seems like it has a slight bulge, so a new power supply may have to be on my shopping list (I have no experience with soldering, so I'm not going to try to replace the cap alone). I'll post a pic later so you and others can give your opinion.


----------



## unitron

ac3dd said:


> ...
> 
> One of the capacitors seems like it has a slight bulge, so a new power supply may have to be on my shopping list (I have no experience with soldering, so I'm not going to try to replace the cap alone). I'll post a pic later so you and others can give your opinion.


What if I told you I'd pay you $100 to learn to solder?

It's almost the same thing, cause not knowing is going to cost you at least that.

You're going to have to take the power supply out and put it or a replacement back in no matter what you do.

If you buy a new supply it'll cost you $150, not counting shipping, and you can send them your old supply to get $50 back, but you'll have to pay shipping to get it to them.

You can fix the old supply, re-install it, test it with just a hard drive attached as an electrical load ("switching" supplies like the ones used nowadays in PCs and TiVos need a load connected when you apply power to them) and not have it connected to the motherboard 'til you're sure it's okay.

If you don't succeed at repairing it, you can buy a "new" one and send the non-working old one back for the "core charge", just as you'd have done if you didn't try to fix it.

As soldering jobs go, this is a simple one.


----------



## ac3dd

unitron said:


> What if I told you I'd pay you $100 to learn to solder?
> 
> It's almost the same thing, cause not knowing is going to cost you at least that.
> 
> You're going to have to take the power supply out and put it or a replacement back in no matter what you do.
> 
> If you buy a new supply it'll cost you $150, not counting shipping, and you can send them your old supply to get $50 back, but you'll have to pay shipping to get it to them.
> 
> You can fix the old supply, re-install it, test it with just a hard drive attached as an electrical load ("switching" supplies like the ones used nowadays in PCs and TiVos need a load connected when you apply power to them) and not have it connected to the motherboard 'til you're sure it's okay.
> 
> If you don't succeed at repairing it, you can buy a "new" one and send the non-working old one back for the "core charge", just as you'd have done if you didn't try to fix it.
> 
> As soldering jobs go, this is a simple one.


I'll just have to pay the $100 penalty for my lack of knowledge. I'm not going to risk $650 (the cost of a new Tivo with lifetime service) by putting my half-baked attempt back into the TiVo and having it fry the motherboard someday. Learning to solder will have to be done at another time and place, when the consequences of screwing up don't matter.

However, I might try my hand at testing the existing one with a capacitor tester, if that will do any good in confirming or disproving my suspicions about that capacitor. Can it be tested properly when it's still on the board?


----------



## ac3dd

Given that I have 16 partitions including Apple_Free on the old drive, how do I resolve that so 1TB or more can be used on the 1.5TB drive?


----------



## unitron

ac3dd said:


> I'll just have to pay the $100 penalty for my lack of knowledge. I'm not going to risk $650 (the cost of a new Tivo with lifetime service) by putting my half-baked attempt back into the TiVo and having it fry the motherboard someday. Learning to solder will have to be done at another time and place, when the consequences of screwing up don't matter.
> 
> However, I might try my hand at testing the existing one with a capacitor tester, if that will do any good in confirming or disproving my suspicions about that capacitor. Can it be tested properly when it's still on the board?


If it has so much as a hint of a bulge it doesn't need testing in or out of circuit, it needs to be replaced.

Is there an electronics service shop near you?

Just tell them to replace it and the other one in parallel with it if there is one (they'll know what that means), and it should be considerably faster and cheaper.

There should be a number next to it on the board, like C101.

What is it?

If there's a glob of white stuff partially covering the number, I probably know which one it is already. You've got a TCD648250, right?


----------



## unitron

ac3dd said:


> Given that I have 16 partitions including Apple_Free on the old drive, how do I resolve that so 1TB or more can be used on the 1.5TB drive?


You could try using WinMFS to mfscopy the 500 to the 1.5 and then see if it'll do mfsadd, and we'll both learn something.


----------



## ac3dd

My old cheap camera won't take well-focused pictures of small items, so the pic is not good enough to show the magnitude of the bulge. But at least I've pointed out which one the suspect is. It's the biggest of 5 capacitors beside that "black wall".

There is some white putty-like stuff between the capacitors. There are also a few other small blobs of it on different places on the power board. Is that some kind of leakage, or was it placed there deliberately by the manufacturer?


----------



## steve614

I can tell even with it being out of focus. That capacitor is a goner.
The white blobs are just a glue that the manufacturer put there to hold the components in place for soldering.


----------



## unitron

ac3dd said:


> My old cheap camera won't take well-focused pictures of small items, so the pic is not good enough to show the magnitude of the bulge. But at least I've pointed out which one the suspect is. It's the biggest of 5 capacitors beside that "black wall".
> 
> There is some white putty-like stuff between the capacitors. There are also a few other small blobs of it on different places on the power board. Is that some kind of leakage, or was it placed there deliberately by the manufacturer?


That black wall is a heat sink. So is the silver one.

That cap is C701, a 2200uF, 25V, and is a well known culprit in the 648 power supply.

Like steve614 said, the white stuff is glue to hold stuff in place when they solder it.

If you take it to a shop, tell them there's a small dark screw that goes in from the outside into the top of the AC jack, and to use a low-ESR, 105 degree celsius/centigrade replacement cap.


----------



## ac3dd

unitron said:


> Is there an electronics service shop near you?


There still exists shops that will go as far as replacing capacitors? These days in America everybody just replaces entire components, I have no idea who can and will do something as specific as replacing this.

MFScopy is running overnight.


----------



## unitron

ac3dd said:


> There still exists shops that will go as far as replacing capacitors? These days in America everybody just replaces entire components, I have no idea who can and will do something as specific as replacing this.
> 
> MFScopy is running overnight.


Checked the yellow pages?


----------



## ac3dd

unitron said:


> Checked the yellow pages?


Repair shops exist in the area, the question is which will do this type of repair and do it right and do it cheaper than buying a new power supply. The ones I know about will only do stuff I can do myself, like replace entire components and reinstall software.


----------



## unitron

ac3dd said:


> Repair shops exist in the area, the question is which will do this type of repair and do it right and do it cheaper than buying a new power supply. The ones I know about will only do stuff I can do myself, like replace entire components and reinstall software.


You really want to spend that $100 (on what may be new old stock with the same bogus capacitors waiting to go bad), don't you?

What is your geographical location?


----------



## AndyJC

I now have 287 hours of HD recording on my HD. 

I'll post up my process and setup in case it helps anyone else.

I was using a laptop so I bought two Vantec SATA/IDE USB 2.0 adapters. I bought the WD 20EURS.

I went straight to JMFS to copy the original 160GB drive to the new 2tb drive. Both drives were plugged into the laptop via usb using the Vantec adapters. Copying took about 3.5 hours. Once completed I used JMFS to expand.

I tried to use winmfs to supersize, but it still wouldn't recognize the drive, so I skipped that step. Going from 20 to 287 is a good enough upgrade for me. I installed the new drive in the Tivo and so far so good.


----------



## ac3dd

unitron said:


> You really want to spend that $100 (on what may be new old stock with the same bogus capacitors waiting to go bad), don't you?


I don't want to spend anything. Once the hard drive is ready, I'm sticking it back into the TiVo, and if I don't see any more rebooting problems, I'm leaving it as is. Then maybe sometime over the next few months I'll try to learn the soldering technique with a discarded motherboard or something, just in case the TiVo starts acting up again.



> What is your geographical location?


Check your PM. *EDIT:* The system says you need to delete some PMs before you can accept more messages.


----------



## ac3dd

MFScopy is done, and it asked if I wanted to expand. I chose Yes, then chose No on the next question about limiting the partition to 1TB. Now the partition map shows only 15 partitions, with no Apple_free, and the last partition is 1.1TB.

Now I'll put it back into the TiVo and see what happens ....


----------



## unitron

ac3dd said:


> MFScopy is done, and it asked if I wanted to expand. I chose Yes, then chose No on the next question about limiting the partition to 1TB. Now the partition map shows only 15 partitions, with no Apple_free, and the last partition is 1.1TB.
> 
> Now I'll put it back into the TiVo and see what happens ....


Good luck with that and I look forward to finding out how it went, but ain't a hard drive in the world can cure a bad capacitor and you've got a bad capacitor.

(cleaned out some PM space, although I'm also emailable)


----------



## ac3dd

It took an unusually long time to boot up, but now the system info shows "up to 215 HD hours" and it seems to be handling live TV OK and all my recorded shows appear to be there. But that's only after a few minutes of observation. When I get home this evening I'll use it for an extended time.

What happens if it doesn't recognize the full 1.1TB of the last partition? Will it crap out when it starts writing more than 1TB of data in that partition? Or will it peacefully stop at 1TB?

Of course a hard drive won't cure a bad capacitor, but if the hard drive was the cause of my rebooting problems and it functions OK with the new drive and same old bad capacitor, that buys me some time to learn to solder or find a competent and cheap-enough local repair shop if it exists or accumulate more funds towards buying a replacement power supply.


----------



## AndyJC

After reading all this talk about partitions, I'm a little worried that JMFS expanded my drive with partitions larger than 1 TB.

The drive doesn't show up in winMFS so is there a way to see the partition map with MFSlive or JMFS?


----------



## A J Ricaud

ac3dd said:


> There still exists shops that will go as far as replacing capacitors? These days in America everybody just replaces entire components, I have no idea who can and will do something as specific as replacing this.MFScopy is running overnight.


You might try RadioShack if you have one near you. I seem to recall that they advertised as being able to repair just about any electrical component. They are probably high priced, though.


----------



## Teeps

ac3dd said:


> There still exists shops that will go as far as replacing capacitors?


Any TV repair shop or HAM radio shop/enthusiast can replace capacitors in this power supply.
This repair should be a no brainer, for a professional, especially with the "how to" instructions available.

ac3dd if you are near Torrance, CA; I can help.


----------



## unitron

AndyJC said:


> After reading all this talk about partitions, I'm a little worried that JMFS expanded my drive with partitions larger than 1 TB.
> 
> The drive doesn't show up in winMFS so is there a way to see the partition map with MFSlive or JMFS?


That's why I like to do S3 HDs with a 1TB middleman.

Boot into MFS Live and then type

pdisk -l /dev/sda

That's a lowercase L, and that's assuming the 2TB TiVo to be drive is hooked up so that MFS Live sees it as sda.

Otherwise, it to sdb or sdc or whatever it needs to be.

Hit ENTER, and see if it reports an Apple Partition Map.

The type

poweroff

to get the computer to shut down properly so you don't accidentally do something to screw up the drive.

Once you give it a quasi-S4-ish or whatever bastardized partition map, stuff like MFS Live and WinMFS aren't going to know what to make of it.

But if it boots in the TiVo, that's the important part.

If you did your upgrade on a GigaByte brand motherboard, say so now, and we'll start trying to figure out how un-ruin things.


----------



## Stylin

Teeps said:


> Any TV repair shop or HAM radio shop/enthusiast can replace capacitors in this power supply.
> This repair should be a no brainer, for a professional, especially with the "how to" instructions available.
> 
> ac3dd if you are near Torrance, CA; I can help.


Is there anyone in NYC / Tri-state that can do repair/upgrades? I've got some items I can barter in exchange for labour. Pls pm.


----------



## unitron

A J Ricaud said:


> You might try RadioShack if you have one near you. I seem to recall that they advertised as being able to repair just about any electrical component. They are probably high priced, though.


A thousand times no.

They're a cell phone store that hasn't discontinued all the parts they once carried yet, but they're getting there, and not bothering to hire people who can tell a capacitor from a resistor.


----------



## A J Ricaud

unitron said:


> A thousand times no.
> 
> They're a cell phone store that hasn't discontinued all the parts they once carried yet, but they're getting there, and not bothering to hire people who can tell a capacitor from a resistor.


That's good to know. I will cross them off my potentials list.


----------



## AndyJC

unitron said:


> But if it boots in the TiVo, that's the important part.
> 
> If you did your upgrade on a GigaByte brand motherboard, say so now, and we'll start trying to figure out how un-ruin things.


Thanks for the info... Nope it's an ASUS laptop. Everything went really smoothly, I'm just paranoid it was a little too smooth.

I'm sending a bunch of content to it today while I'm at work to see how it performs, I'll know when I get home...


----------



## ac3dd

Teeps said:


> ac3dd if you are near Torrance, CA; I can help.


Thanks, but I'm nowhere near there.


----------



## AndyJC

So I have 14 partitions on the drive. The last one is media region 3 and yup it's 1.7T in size.

I'm concerned this won't work in the future... is there a way to change these sizes?

I'm not worried about losing the shows on the drive now, is there a tool that I can use to change the partition sizing?


----------



## ac3dd

So far so good ... no reboots.

But I'm still a bit concerned about the 1.1TB partition. If it's too big for the TiVo to handle because of the 1TB limit, would it have let me know by now? Or will I only know that something is wrong when it fills up 1TB and tries to write to the last 0.1TB?


----------



## AndyJC

ac3dd said:


> So far so good ... no reboots.
> 
> But I'm still a bit concerned about the 1.1TB partition. If it's too big for the TiVo to handle because of the 1TB limit, would it have let me know by now? Or will I only know that something is wrong when it fills up 1TB and tries to write to the last 0.1TB?


There is another thread on upgrading the HD and plenty of anecdotal cases of users running a 1.7T partition, like the one I have, for several years without issues.

I put the tivo back together and am adopting a wait and see attitude..


----------



## ac3dd

AndyJC said:


> There is another thread on upgrading the HD and plenty of anecdotal cases of users running a 1.7T partition, like the one I have, for several years without issues.


I know it's possible to use a partition bigger than 1TB, even bigger than 1.5TB, but it has to be done in the right way for it to be properly usable by TiVo.

My problem is not a question of whether it's possible, it's that I don't know if I've done it correctly or not. All I know is that it seems to be working fine right now. I was hoping somebody would give me a clue about what would happen if I did it wrong -- would it immediately give obvious problems, or would it stay silent and run apparently OK until some day in the future it crashes when it attempts to write data to the sectors of the partition beyond 1TB?


----------



## steve614

Hmm, I think you might be the guinea pig for this one. 

To speed up the process, turn on Suggestions and let the drive fill up. You'll eventually get your answer.


----------



## unitron

ac3dd said:


> So far so good ... no reboots.
> 
> But I'm still a bit concerned about the 1.1TB partition. If it's too big for the TiVo to handle because of the 1TB limit, would it have let me know by now? Or will I only know that something is wrong when it fills up 1TB and tries to write to the last 0.1TB?


I think the upgrade to 11.0k* is supposed to be able to handle the bigger partitions, although the overall drive size limit is still 2TB

*the TiVo operating system


----------



## unitron

AndyJC said:


> So I have 14 partitions on the drive. The last one is media region 3 and yup it's 1.7T in size.
> 
> I'm concerned this won't work in the future... is there a way to change these sizes?
> 
> I'm not worried about losing the shows on the drive now, is there a tool that I can use to change the partition sizing?


Which TiVo model did you start with and did you just copy the original drive and use jmfs?

I'm pretty sure the first 13 partitions are what was on the original and except for swap and var I don't know if you can change the size without the TiVo software complaining, because I'm not sure of where all it keeps track of that sort of thing.

You could use the always dangerous

hdparm

to put a Host Protected area on the 2TB, making it look like a 1TB, then use WinMFS to copy the original drive to that (and, if it were me, make the swap partiton about 1GB or 1000MB) and expand by adding partitions 14 and 15 (an MFS pair, which is how it does that), then remove the HPA, then use jmfs to add a 16th MFS Media partition of about 1TB in size.

Of course if you could obtain the temporary use of a 1TB drive as a middleman, you could eliminate having to use

hdparm


----------



## unitron

ac3dd said:


> Repair shops exist in the area, the question is which will do this type of repair and do it right and do it cheaper than buying a new power supply. The ones I know about will only do stuff I can do myself, like replace entire components and reinstall software.


Open up the yellow pages, find a shop that repairs TVs and/or high-end audio equipment, call them, ask whoever answers to ask the techs if they do board level repair and can replace a low-ESR capacitor on a single layer board.

The shop with a tech that doesn't need that question translated or explained (other than telling them it's a TiVo switching power supply if they ask), and will do it for well under $50, parts included, is the one you want.

If you take the entire TiVo in and they have to remove the supply from the chassis it'll probably add to the labor cost, but then you can have them test the repair there in the store.

The more informal and "mom and pop" the shop is, the more likely they are to be flexible about fitting you in and pricing and such.

I'm thinking between $20 and $30 labor and $2 to $3 for the capacitor would be reasonable.


----------



## AndyJC

unitron said:


> Which TiVo model did you start with and did you just copy the original drive and use jmfs?
> 
> I'm pretty sure the first 13 partitions are what was on the original and except for swap and var I don't know if you can change the size without the TiVo software complaining, because I'm not sure of where all it keeps track of that sort of thing.
> 
> You could use the always dangerous
> 
> hdparm
> 
> to put a Host Protected area on the 2TB, making it look like a 1TB, then use WinMFS to copy the original drive to that (and, if it were me, make the swap partiton about 1GB or 1000MB) and expand by adding partitions 14 and 15 (an MFS pair, which is how it does that), then remove the HPA, then use jmfs to add a 16th MFS Media partition of about 1TB in size.
> 
> Of course if you could obtain the temporary use of a 1TB drive as a middleman, you could eliminate having to use
> 
> hdparm


It's a 652160 and yup I used jmfs to go straight from the original drive to a wd20eurs.

It seems to be working fine, so until I have an issue, I'm going to leave it alone. 

Thanks very much for the help!


----------



## jmbach

unitron said:


> I've been re-reading this post in order to try to help explain to someone else how to put a 2TB in a TCD648250.
> 
> I'm puzzled.
> 
> If you started, back when, with the original 250GB drive, it had 13 partitions on it, 1. the partition map, 2, 3, and 4. the primary "boot trio", 5, 6, and 7. the alternate boot trio, 8. the swap partition, 9. var, and then 2 MFS pairs, 10 and 11, and 12 and 13.
> 
> Using MFS Live or WinMFS to copy it to the 1TB and expand would have resulted in a third MFS pair being added, 14 and 15, because that's how they expand, by adding MFS pairs.
> 
> If there was any space left at the end, it would have been called an Apple Free partition, and would have been partition 16.
> 
> It's been my experience that MFS Live will leave a little space going onto a 1tb drive, but WinMFS will use it all up when it creates partitions 14 and 15.
> 
> Copying that to a 2TB and telling it not to expand would either have left you with the original small partition 16 and the rest of the space ignored, or would have left you with an Apple Free partition of about 1TB in size.
> 
> If you hadn't already hit the 3 MFS pair limit per TiVo drive, then either program should be able to rewrite the partition map to convert what would be Apple Free partition 14 into MFS partitions 14 and 15.
> 
> But if you already expanded into the rest of that 1TB after copying the 250 to it, you should already have that 3rd and final MFS pair added.
> 
> Unless WinMFS can, when asked to expand via mfsadd, expand that 15th partition, leaving it starting at the same place but ending many GB further than before.
> 
> In which case, I don't think deleting the 16th Apple Free partition manually would be necessary.
> 
> I just replaced a WD20EADS in my S3 HD with a WD20EURS, so I have a 2TB to play with temporarily, so I'll try to do some experimenting.


Just followed the instructions using WinMFS and iBored to upgrade my already upgraded original S3 from its previous upgrade of 1TB to 2TB using a WD20EURS with Intellipark disabled. Sofar working just fine. MFS supersized failed when trying to apply it via the instructions but I think that is because my original 1TB upgrade had it supersized already. I thought I would post the partition maps during the process for information which may answer some of your questions.

Original 1TB map:

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 512.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 698.2G)

Total SA SD Hours: 1040	Total DTV SD Hours: 908 1 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-648	Tivo Model: TCD648250B

Map of 2TB drive after MFSCopy:

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
12  MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 698.2G)
16 Apple_Free Extra [email protected]( 931.9G)

Total SA SD Hours: 1040	Total DTV SD Hours: 908 1 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-648	Tivo Model: TCD648250B

Final 2TB map after deleting 16th partition with iBored and running MFSAdd:

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Expanded by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.6T)

Total SA SD Hours: 2083	Total DTV SD Hours: 1818 50 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-648	Tivo Model: TCD648250B

In the end I have 318 hours HD available.

Long post but hopefully good information for the inquiring mind.
Jim


----------



## jmbach

Looking back on the partition map, wondering if I should of used dd to copy the drive and then used WinMFS to MFSAdd. I see my swap size decreased from 512 to 128. Using dd would of kept my swap partition and might not of created the apple_free extra partition. That way might be able to skip the iBored step. 

Jim


----------



## unitron

jmbach said:


> Looking back on the partition map, wondering if I should of used dd to copy the drive and then used WinMFS to MFSAdd. I see my swap size decreased from 512 to 128. Using dd would of kept my swap partition and might not of created the apple_free extra partition. That way might be able to skip the iBored step.
> 
> Jim


WinMFS lets you specify the swap size, but since I've always used it to increase the size instead of leaving it the same, I didn't know it would revert to the original size for that model unless one specifically said different.

I'll have to watch out for that.


----------



## PooperScooper

I have a TivoHD with a 1TB WD green drive that I "upgraded" to years ago and today I used WinMFS to marry a 1TB WD DVR External ESata drive (the supported one) to the internal 1TB drive. After booting the TivoHD after the marry operation it went to a blank screen after the "just a few more minutes" screen. It's been at the blank screen for over an hour now. I can hear the internal drive chattering away. Is this normal? Does it have to run fsuck and it's taking a while? The internal drive was probably close to full. Thanks.

larry

edit: Well, I let the TivoHD sit for over 4 hours with the blank screen and decided to power off the system to remove the external drive and see what happened. When the TivoHD booted it gave me the external drive was missing screen. I powered off and plugged the external drive back in and powered up. A few minutes later and all seems well, I have 287 hours of HD recording time and previous recordings are intact. Oils well that ends well, I guess.


----------



## jmbach

unitron said:


> WinMFS lets you specify the swap size, but since I've always used it to increase the size instead of leaving it the same, I didn't know it would revert to the original size for that model unless one specifically said different.
> 
> I'll have to watch out for that.


Well tried a different tactic. I used a program in windows that does a RAW copy of the drive, so I copied the 1TB to a 2TB drive with this program HDD Raw Copy Tool from HDDGURU. The 2TB had the following partition table:

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 512.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 698.2G)

Total SA SD Hours: 1040	Total DTV SD Hours: 908 1 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-648	Tivo Model: TCD648250B

It had the exactly same parition map the original 1TB drive had. Then using WinMFS I performed MFSAdd on the drive and got this partition map:

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 512.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Expanded by Winmfs [email protected] (1024.0G)

Total SA SD Hours: 1404	Total DTV SD Hours: 1226 27 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-648	Tivo Model: TCD648250B

Notice the 15th partition was expanded but not as much as the original attempt that used WinMFS, iBored, WinMFS sequence. Not sure why. I did use a different 2TB drive but I would not expected it to expand it about 600GB less. That drive did not have any bad spots and was brand new out of the box. The MFS superheader has total_secs=3905170432 in the fully expanded drive and total_secs=2634017792 in the less expanded drive. It might be that the original attempt put the length and base of the partitions in order and not optimized. Not really sure if it makes a difference in the end. If I am interpreting it correctly, partitions go in order on the drive as 1,13,11,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,14,15. MFSSupersize did not work on the new drive either when doing it this way. Currently I am using WinMFS to copy the 1TB drive to another using no optimize partition layout and a 512mb swap partition. Then I am going to use HDD Raw Copy Tool to copy the new WinMFS copied 1TB drive to the 2TB Drive. That should put the partitions on the drive in numerical order with a 512mb swap on the 2TB drive. Then I will do MFSAdd to expand the drive and see if that will get the full expansion. Also I will retry with the drive that gave me full expansion to eliminate different drives as a factor. Will post results soon. BTW the HDD Raw Copy Tool copies the drive much faster than WinMFS.

Jim


----------



## unitron

jmbach said:


> Well tried a different tactic. I used a program in windows that does a RAW copy of the drive, so I copied the 1TB to a 2TB drive with this program HDD Raw Copy Tool from HDDGURU. The 2TB had the following partition table:
> 
> Partition Maps
> #: type name length base ( size )
> 1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
> 2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 512.0M)
> 9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
> 12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)
> 14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
> 15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 698.2G)
> 
> Total SA SD Hours: 1040	Total DTV SD Hours: 908 1 % Free
> Software: 11.0k-01-2-648	Tivo Model: TCD648250B
> 
> It had the exactly same parition map the original 1TB drive had. Then using WinMFS I performed MFSAdd on the drive and got this partition map:
> 
> Partition Maps
> #: type name length base ( size )
> 1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
> 2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 3 Image Kernel 1  [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 512.0M)
> 9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
> 12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)
> 14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
> 15 MFS MFS Expanded by Winmfs [email protected] (1024.0G)
> 
> Total SA SD Hours: 1404	Total DTV SD Hours: 1226 27 % Free
> Software: 11.0k-01-2-648	Tivo Model: TCD648250B
> 
> Notice the 15th partition was expanded but not as much as the original attempt that used WinMFS, iBored, WinMFS sequence. Not sure why. I did use a different 2TB drive but I would not expected it to expand it about 600GB less. That drive did not have any bad spots and was brand new out of the box. The MFS superheader has total_secs=3905170432 in the fully expanded drive and total_secs=2634017792 in the less expanded drive. It might be that the original attempt put the length and base of the partitions in order and not optimized. Not really sure if it makes a difference in the end. If I am interpreting it correctly, partitions go in order on the drive as 1,13,11,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,14,15. MFSSupersize did not work on the new drive either when doing it this way. Currently I am using WinMFS to copy the 1TB drive to another using no optimize partition layout and a 512mb swap partition. Then I am going to use HDD Raw Copy Tool to copy the new WinMFS copied 1TB drive to the 2TB Drive. That should put the partitions on the drive in numerical order with a 512mb swap on the 2TB drive. Then I will do MFSAdd to expand the drive and see if that will get the full expansion. Also I will retry with the drive that gave me full expansion to eliminate different drives as a factor. Will post results soon. BTW the HDD Raw Copy Tool copies the drive much faster than WinMFS.
> 
> Jim


Sounds like your Windows program does the same thing as

dd

or

dd_rescue

or

ddrescue

the first two of which are available on the MFS Live cd v1.4 and the last is, I believe, the program the jmfs cd uses for the copy portion of its copy and expand procedures.

It does a byte for byte copy.

When you ran mfsadd inside of WinMFS, did it ask you if you wanted to limit partition size to 1TB?

Because apparently that's what it did.


----------



## ac3dd

steve614 said:


> Hmm, I think you might be the guinea pig for this one.
> 
> To speed up the process, turn on Suggestions and let the drive fill up. You'll eventually get your answer.


That's what I did ... suggestions are piling up!

I read about other people doing tedious things with iBored to get things working on their bigger drives, so I was concerned that my upgrade was too smooth and easy since I didn't anything more than a straightforward MFScopy and MFSadd.


----------



## jmbach

unitron said:


> Sounds like your Windows program does the same thing as
> 
> dd
> 
> or
> 
> dd_rescue
> 
> or
> 
> ddrescue
> 
> the first two of which are available on the MFS Live cd v1.4 and the last is, I believe, the program the jmfs cd uses for the copy portion of its copy and expand procedures.
> 
> It does a byte for byte copy.
> 
> When you ran mfsadd inside of WinMFS, did it ask you if you wanted to limit partition size to 1TB?
> 
> Because apparently that's what it did.


Maybe so. I thought I told it not to do that but it was the wee hours in the morning and who knows what I clicked on. I'll try it again.

Jim


----------



## jmbach

unitron said:


> That black wall is a heat sink. So is the silver one.
> 
> That cap is C701, a 2200uF, 25V, and is a well known culprit in the 648 power supply.
> 
> Like steve614 said, the white stuff is glue to hold stuff in place when they solder it.
> 
> If you take it to a shop, tell them there's a small dark screw that goes in from the outside into the top of the AC jack, and to use a low-ESR, 105 degree celsius/centigrade replacement cap.


Would a Rubycon 25YXF2200M16X25 capaciter be qualified? http://www.garrettelec.com/manu_specs/RUBYYXF.pdf

Jim


----------



## RealityCheck

Are Western Digital "Red" Hard Drives suitable for use in a TiVo Series 3 (OLED)? I know they are NAS Rated for 24/7 operation. I'd like to use one, as they're less expensive then the recommended Western Digital AV-GP. Any assistance is appreciated. Unfortunately, my TiVo HDD (250GB factory original) is failing.


----------



## jmbach

unitron said:


> Sounds like your Windows program does the same thing as
> 
> dd
> 
> or
> 
> dd_rescue
> 
> or
> 
> ddrescue
> 
> the first two of which are available on the MFS Live cd v1.4 and the last is, I believe, the program the jmfs cd uses for the copy portion of its copy and expand procedures.
> 
> It does a byte for byte copy.
> 
> When you ran mfsadd inside of WinMFS, did it ask you if you wanted to limit partition size to 1TB?
> 
> Because apparently that's what it did.


You are correct, in the wee hours of the morning I must of pressed 'yes' to the one terabyte question and not 'no'. Here is the new partition map:

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 512.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Expanded by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.6T)

Total SA SD Hours: 2082	Total DTV SD Hours: 1818 50 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-648	Tivo Model: TCD648250B

So this is a simpler process. HDD Raw Copy Tool (or something similar) followed by using MFSAdd in WinMFS. Sofar it seems to be working. Will see as time goes on. Since this worked I scrapped the other experiment by copying to a 1TB inbetween to rearrange the partitions.

Jim


----------



## unitron

RealityCheck said:


> Are Western Digital "Red" Hard Drives suitable for use in a TiVo Series 3 (OLED)? I know they are NAS Rated for 24/7 operation. I'd like to use one, as they're less expensive then the recommended Western Digital AV-GP. Any assistance is appreciated. Unfortunately, my TiVo HDD (250GB factory original) is failing.


Looks like Amazon is asking as much or more for the 2TB Red as they are for the WD20EURS, which recently went back up from $100 to $120.

The WD20EURS uses an error handling method better suited to video recording than the methods employed by the type of drive on which you want to store spreadsheets and databases.

Use a computer drive in a computer and a DVR drive in a DVR.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Reds get hotter than the EURS, as well.


----------



## ThAbtO

unitron said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if the Reds get hotter than the EURS, as well.


Red Hots. Come get your Red Hots.


----------



## unitron

jmbach said:


> Would a Rubycon 25YXF2200M16X25 capaciter be qualified? http://www.garrettelec.com/manu_specs/RUBYYXF.pdf
> 
> Jim


Considering that they call it low impedence rather than low equvalent series resistance, I'd look for something that specifically calls itself Low ESR.

Check the capacitor threads around here and see if someone doesn't mention getting a replacement for that cap from Mouser or Digi-Key.


----------



## unitron

jmbach said:


> You are correct, in the wee hours of the morning I must of pressed 'yes' to the one terabyte question and not 'no'. Here is the new partition map:
> 
> Partition Maps
> #: type name length base ( size )
> 1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
> 2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 512.0M)
> 9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
> 12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)
> 14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
> 15 MFS MFS Expanded by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.6T)
> 
> Total SA SD Hours: 2082	Total DTV SD Hours: 1818 50 % Free
> Software: 11.0k-01-2-648	Tivo Model: TCD648250B
> 
> So this is a simpler process. HDD Raw Copy Tool (or something similar) followed by using MFSAdd in WinMFS. Sofar it seems to be working. Will see as time goes on. Since this worked I scrapped the other experiment by copying to a 1TB inbetween to rearrange the partitions.
> 
> Jim


In your case, already upped to a 1TB, willing to risk partition larger than 1TB, you probably could have done it all in WinMFS.

Click on mfscopy, tell it to use a custom swap size (going onto a 2TB I'd have gone with 1000MB instead of 512 myself), and when it finishes, if it asks if you want to expand, great, otherwise, click on mfsadd, and either way tell it you do not want to limit partition size.

It should then take that already existing 15th 3rd MFS Media partition and made it bigger to fill the 2TB drive.

This is in theory, I'm still trying to get the time and bench space to experiment with the 648 I recently acquired.


----------



## jmbach

unitron said:


> In your case, already upped to a 1TB, willing to risk partition larger than 1TB, you probably could have done it all in WinMFS.
> 
> Click on mfscopy, tell it to use a custom swap size (going onto a 2TB I'd have gone with 1000MB instead of 512 myself), and when it finishes, if it asks if you want to expand, great, otherwise, click on mfsadd, and either way tell it you do not want to limit partition size.
> 
> It should then take that already existing 15th 3rd MFS Media partition and made it bigger to fill the 2TB drive.
> 
> This is in theory, I'm still trying to get the time and bench space to experiment with the 648 I recently acquired.


Since I am waiting on capacitors before I close up my box, I'll give it a try and report back. Will make a 1024mb swap size and allow it to optimize the partitions.

Jim


----------



## ac3dd

Some say the larger swap size isn't important anymore.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3825639&&#post3825639


----------



## unitron

ac3dd said:


> Some say the larger swap size isn't important anymore.
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3825639&&#post3825639


I don't know if it is or not, but 1GB is only about 15 minutes of analog cable at best quality, so I just think of it as cheap insurance.


----------



## ac3dd

unitron said:


> I don't know if it is or not, but 1GB is only about 15 minutes of analog cable at best quality, so I just think of it as cheap insurance.


I considered running the copy again to expand the swap ... but the "cost" I cared about which made me not do it was the time and hassle to rerun the copy and expand procedure, not the few gigs of disk space.

And apparently there could be other problems that could be caused by the larger swap:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3612772&&#post3612772
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4372670&&#post4372670


----------



## jmbach

Finished the test. From and an already 1TB expanded drive you can use WinMFS MFSCopy to copy to a 2TB drive. If you click on expand drive after the copy it seems to pause. Nothing happens and the copy screen is still up. If you click on close it asks you if you want to terminate this operation. I waited for about 30 minutes and finally clicked close and then click yes to terminate this process. Then I used MFSAdd to expand the drive. Put it in the unit and everthing seems to be working just fine. I did opt for 1024 swap drive and optimized partitions. Put the drive in the unit and everything seems to be working. I would suggest if someone does it this way that they click no to expand the drive after MFSCopy is done and use MFSAdd to expand the drive.
Here is my new partition table:

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 1.0G)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Expanded by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.6T)

Total SA SD Hours: 2082	Total DTV SD Hours: 1817 50 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-648	Tivo Model: TCD648250B

And BTW after researching capacitors it appears that Low ESR = Low Impedence. Different manufacturers use different nomenclature. I ended up getting the ZLH series of rubycon capacitor (25ZLH2200MEFC12.5X30). Its physical size, capacitance, and voltage matched the best and is low impedence. http://www.rubycon.co.jp/en/catalog/e_pdfs/aluminum/e_ZLH.pdf

Jim


----------



## unitron

I found a Rubycon product sheet with more than one series of capacitors listed that indicates that they do differentiate between low ESR and low Impedence.


----------



## MikeAndrews

I'd get a spare unsubbed TiVo from Craigslist and just swap the power supply.

I picked up enough TiVos that I have a spare for every one of mine.


----------



## jmbach

unitron said:


> I found a Rubycon product sheet with more than one series of capacitors listed that indicates that they do differentiate between low ESR and low Impedence.


There appears to be subtle differences and they are related. It seems that one implies the other. Here is a definition I found.
Impedance (Zc) is the total opposition offered to alternating or pulsating current measured in ohms. Impedence is the vector sum of the resistive and reactive components of a capacitor expressed mathematically as Zc=sqrt(ESR^2 + (Xl - Xc)^2)

So low impedence implies low ESR but low ESR does not necessarily imply low impedence. Discussed it with the DigiKey gurus and they agree.

Jim


----------



## jmbach

ac3dd said:


> I considered running the copy again to expand the swap ... but the "cost" I cared about which made me not do it was the time and hassle to rerun the copy and expand procedure, not the few gigs of disk space.
> 
> And apparently there could be other problems that could be caused by the larger swap:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3612772&&#post3612772
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4372670&&#post4372670


I agree about the cost of time it takes to do that. Not sure it is worth it if everything is working just fine. Since I have mine apart waiting on capacitors, I did not mind trying different things. The reference posts that you shared are about 6 years or more old and may or may not be completely valid anymore with the upgraded OS the units are running now. It would be interesting what the 1TB (or 2TB) premieres use as their swap size. Have not searched for that one yet. If the 1TB (or 2TB) premieres still use a small swap size than it makes a good argument that enlarging the swap size not important and more of a waste of space. It really depends on how the OS is written, how much memory the system has, and how the OS manages memory on whether a larger swap is needed or not.

Jim


----------



## dlfl

unitron said:


> I found a Rubycon product sheet with more than one series of capacitors listed that indicates that they do differentiate between low ESR and low Impedence.


This might be explained by the inductive reactance component of the cap equivalent circuit, as shown in Figure 3.2 of this Rubycon Technical Note:
http://www.rubycon.co.jp/en/products/alumi/pdf/Performances.pdf
Equation 3.7 shows the corresponding impedance equation. Note that the resistive component R is the ESR. Note in Figure 3.4 that the inductive reactance dominates impedance for higher frequencies. Perhaps "low impedance", as opposed to low ESR, is important for applications involving these higher ripple frequencies. Applying this circuit model is complicated by the fact that electrolytics are very nonlinear devices, i.e., the values of the circuit elements vary with temperature, DC voltage, age, amount of ripple current etc., as detailed in the tech note.


----------



## scottsh

I just had to replace (for the second time) a failed HD in my S3 and used a WD20EURS as well. As I didn't have a backup, I used Unitron's WinMFS backup (many thanks! Already have dropbox or I'd let you refer me!).

I put it in, did a complete erase, and when it came back up I find I've lost the animated backgrounds (loop sets). I can't figure out what that could be?

Anybody have any ideas?

My part table ended up like this after a restore + mfsadd:

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs  [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.6T)

Total SA SD Hours: 2083	Total DTV SD Hours: 1818	100 % Free
Software: 11.0g-01-2-648	Tivo Model: TCD648250B


----------



## jmbach

scottsh said:


> I just had to replace (for the second time) a failed HD in my S3 and used a WD20EURS as well. As I didn't have a backup, I used Unitron's WinMFS backup (many thanks! Already have dropbox or I'd let you refer me!).
> 
> I put it in, did a complete erase, and when it came back up I find I've lost the animated backgrounds (loop sets). I can't figure out what that could be?
> 
> Anybody have any ideas?
> 
> My part table ended up like this after a restore + mfsadd:
> 
> Partition Maps
> #: type name length base ( size )
> 1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
> 2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
> 9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
> 12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)
> 14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
> 15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.6T)
> 
> Total SA SD Hours: 2083	Total DTV SD Hours: 1818	100 % Free
> Software: 11.0g-01-2-648	Tivo Model: TCD648250B


I see you have revision 11.0g. I have revision 11.0k. Consider going through the kickstart portal and force a software upgrade if it doesn't do it by itself. 
Jim

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## unitron

scottsh said:


> I just had to replace (for the second time) a failed HD in my S3 and used a WD20EURS as well. As I didn't have a backup, I used Unitron's WinMFS backup (many thanks! Already have dropbox or I'd let you refer me!).
> 
> I put it in, did a complete erase, and when it came back up I find I've lost the animated backgrounds (loop sets). I can't figure out what that could be?
> 
> Anybody have any ideas?
> 
> My part table ended up like this after a restore + mfsadd:
> 
> Partition Maps
> #: type name length base ( size )
> 1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
> 2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
> 9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
> 12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)
> 14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
> 15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.6T)
> 
> Total SA SD Hours: 2083	Total DTV SD Hours: 1818	100 % Free
> Software: 11.0g-01-2-648	Tivo Model: TCD648250B


I got that image from someone else, or else I got the .bak version from them, put it on a drive, and used WinMFS to make a .tbk version, but anyway, at the time I'd never even been in the same room as a 648, so I don't know what was or was not on it to begin with.


----------



## scottsh

Thanks unitron, that makes sense then.

I was able to restore from IC which worked properly. I fought with it due to the challenges with working on a new PC (based on UEFI/SATA only) but brought an old PC out retirement and it finally worked. I was trying to avoid that by using WinMFS. That's OK though.

I restored 9.2, waited for the Tivo to update itself to 11k, then popped the drive out and took a new backup with WinMFS. You can get it here.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10685537/Tivo S3 648250B.tbk


----------



## ac3dd

Two weeks since the upgrade, and despite the bulging capacitor there's been no reboots. I'm presuming it's still true that 30-second skip goes away with a reboot; it's still active so that must mean it hasn't rebooted.


----------



## mattack

I'm almost positive that they fixed the 30 second skip going away on reboot.. I had a S3 & TivoHD for years (the TivoHD is still working), and I can't remember the last time I had to reset 30 second skip.


----------



## unitron

ac3dd said:


> Two weeks since the upgrade, and despite the bulging capacitor there's been no reboots. I'm presuming it's still true that 30-second skip goes away with a reboot; it's still active so that must mean it hasn't rebooted.


Congratulations and you still need to deal with that power supply problem before it bites you in the backside.


----------



## lpwcomp

ac3dd said:


> Two weeks since the upgrade, and despite the bulging capacitor there's been no reboots. I'm presuming it's still true that 30-second skip goes away with a reboot; it's still active so that must mean it hasn't rebooted.





mattack said:


> I'm almost positive that they fixed the 30 second skip going away on reboot.. I had a S3 & TivoHD for years (the TivoHD is still working), and I can't remember the last time I had to reset 30 second skip.


Yeah, 30-second skip was made non-volatile a long time ago.


----------



## a68oliver

lpwcomp said:


> Yeah, 30-second skip was made non-volatile a long time ago.


The onscreen clock display still goes away upon a reboot. If you want to check for reboots, that way is immediately obvious.


----------



## cjgadd3

I always knew when my HD rebooted, both tuners were on the same channel.


----------



## steve614

a68oliver said:


> The onscreen clock display still goes away upon a reboot. If you want to check for reboots, that way is immediately obvious.


Yup.

And if you want to know the exact uptime of your Tivo since last reboot, go to 'DVR Diagnostics' and look for 'Time Since OOB Tune Start'.


----------



## Soapm

cjgadd3 said:


> I always knew when my HD rebooted, both tuners were on the same channel.


That or you see two entries for the same show in the NPL.


----------



## dlfl

steve614 said:


> .........And if you want to know the exact uptime of your Tivo since last reboot, go to 'DVR Diagnostics' and look for 'Time Since OOB Tune Start'.


I suspect that number is truncated to six digits, which means it rolls around every 11.57 days (1 million secs). Right now it says my THD rebooted about 4 days ago, which I don't think is correct. Even if it does roll around, it's still useful for pinpointing reboot times (if you check it more often than every 11 days).


----------



## lpwcomp

dlfl said:


> I suspect that number is truncated to six digits, which means it rolls around every 11.57 days (1 million secs). Right now it says my THD rebooted about 4 days ago, which I don't think is correct. Even if it does roll around, it's still useful for pinpointing reboot times (if you check it more often than every 11 days).


One of mine is currently sitting at 1666792 and counting. This is on a Premiere.

Crud. Tried to check it on my THD and it hung. Had to do a hard boot.


----------



## A J Ricaud

Western Digital WD AV-GP WD20EURS 2TB for $99.99 at Newegg. Use promo code
EMCJHHN97:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...012-Index-_-InternalHardDrives-_-22136783-L0D


----------



## a68oliver

cjgadd3 said:


> I always knew when my HD rebooted, both tuners were on the same channel.


.

My S3 OLED may have both tuners on the same channel and it didn't reboot because the clock display is still there. I don't know what causes the two tuners to end up on the same channel.

Gee, I think we are drifting off topic.


----------



## Arcady

If you have two shows recording back to back on the same channel, but they overlap at all (start recording one minute early etc.) then the box can end up like that.


----------



## steve614

dlfl said:


> I suspect that number is truncated to six digits, which means it rolls around every 11.57 days (1 million secs). Right now it says my THD rebooted about 4 days ago, which I don't think is correct. Even if it does roll around, it's still useful for pinpointing reboot times (if you check it more often than every 11 days).


Actually it's seven digits, but your point still stands.
Rollover after 115.74 days.

I don't think my Tivo has gone that long without needing a reboot for some reason or other. 

Edit:



a68oliver said:


> Gee, I think we are drifting off topic.


Yes. I forgot where I was.


----------



## ac3dd

Time Since OOB Tune Start = 1.34 million = 15.5 days, which matches the day of the hard drive upgrade.


----------



## Marconi

This FAQ has not been updated in over two years. What are people using currently as a 1 TB drive in HD TiVos? Last I heard, the WD-AV-GP drives' "Intellipower" functionality was a problem. If WD drives are still the drive of choice, how does a lowly Mac user deal with the Intellipower issue?

What are the current AV drives of choice?


----------



## unitron

Marconi said:


> This FAQ has not been updated in over two years. What are people using currently as a 1 TB drive in HD TiVos?


The 2TB WD20EURS

You can grab one from newegg or Amazon right now for $100

A 1TB is going to cost you most of that.



Marconi said:


> Last I heard, the WD-AV-GP drives' "Intellipower" functionality was a problem.


Apparently the EURS doesn't have it enabled in the first place, and it's "Intellipark" that's the problem with which wdidle3 deals.

Can your Mac boot from and run the jmfs cd?


----------



## Marconi

unitron said:


> The 2TB WD20EURS
> 
> You can grab one from newegg or Amazon right now for $100
> 
> A 1TB is going to cost you most of that.


Will the THD be able to use more than 1 TB?



> Apparently the EURS doesn't have it enabled in the first place, and it's "Intellipark" that's the problem with which wdidle3 deals.


Correct. Half credit for Intelli-something?


> Can your Mac boot from and run the jmfs cd?


I don't know. I've been successfully using mfslive v1.3. I don't even know what jmfs is. Have you a link to a download? I'll try it out. Thanks muchly.


----------



## unitron

Marconi said:


> Will the THD be able to use more than 1 TB?
> 
> Correct. Half credit for Intelli-something? I don't know. I've been successfully using mfslive v1.3. I don't even know what jmfs is. Have you a link to a download? I'll try it out. Thanks muchly.


Learn about jmfs here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968

and then go here to learn about using it on the S3 HD instead of the Premiere

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179

and go to mfslive.org and get v1.4 of MFS Live just to have it around.


----------



## Marconi

unitron said:


> Learn about jmfs here:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968
> 
> and then go here to learn about using it on the S3 HD instead of the Premiere
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179


Hmmm... Looks like I'd need WinMFS to do the supersize for the THD. Since I can't do that, what happens if I simply don't supersize? Will the jmfs'd drive work? Or is the whole purpose of jmfs over mfslive the supersizing? IOW, without WinMFS, I may as well stick with mfsLive. True or false?

JMFS does boot the first generation iMac I use for TiVo drive work. I'm doing a 160->2000 GB copy now.


> and go to mfslive.org and get v1.4 of MFS Live just to have it around.


I was mistaken; I do have 1.4.


----------



## unitron

Marconi said:


> Hmmm... Looks like I'd need WinMFS to do the supersize for the THD. Since I can't do that, what happens if I simply don't supersize? Will the jmfs'd drive work? Or is the whole purpose of jmfs over mfslive the supersizing? IOW, without WinMFS, I may as well stick with mfsLive. True or false?
> 
> JMFS does boot the first generation iMac I use for TiVo drive work. I'm doing a 160->2000 GB copy now. I was mistaken; I do have 1.4.


jmfs supersizes Premieres because WinMFS can't.

(you can't use WinMFS or MFS Live on a Premiere because of some stuff TiVo changed)

Since jmfs is designed to supersize Premieres, it won't work on S3s. But WinMFS will.

WinMFS and MFS Live "exand" by adding another MFS partition pair.

comer figured out something by looking at other people who "coalesced" partitions and came up with jmfs which expands by adding a single MFS Media partition.

For some reason jmfs will also work on S3 HDs and HD XLs, though supposedly not the original S3. I have no idea why.

So if you only have a Mac, you can, theoretically, copy a Premiere drive to a bigger drive, expand into the rest of the space, and supersize, all with jmfs.

If you have an S3, you can use jmfs for the copy and expand part.

If later you find out a friend has a PC running WinMFS, you can, I'm pretty sure, use it to supersize the drive which jmfs has already expanded.


----------



## Marconi

unitron said:


> WinMFS and MFS Live "exand" by adding another MFS partition pair.
> 
> ...So if you only have a Mac, you can, theoretically, copy a Premiere drive to a bigger drive, expand into the rest of the space, and supersize, all with jmfs.


Is there somewhere I can get an iso of a Premier drive? Since I have no Premiers myself...


> If you have an S3, you can use jmfs for the copy and expand part.


Painfully slow, compared to mfsLive. I suspect that JMFS just dd's the entire 160 GB drive to the larger drive.


> If later you find out a friend has a PC running WinMFS, you can, I'm pretty sure, use it to supersize the drive which jmfs has already expanded.


No doubt.


----------



## unitron

Marconi said:


> Is there somewhere I can get an iso of a Premier drive? Since I have no Premiers myself... Painfully slow, compared to mfsLive. I suspect that JMFS just dd's the entire 160 GB drive to the larger drive. No doubt.


The only .iso of a Premiere drive is a Premiere drive, and if you don't have a Premiere it's of no use to you unless you want to go into business selling upgrade drives, in which case you really should have a Premiere in which to test them.

I'm pretty sure jmfs uses

ddrescue

since it returns more info during the process than the Sphynx-like

dd

And yes, whether Premiere or S3 HD or HD XL, jmfs does a byte for byte copy before the expansion stage.

Which means you lose no settings or recordings.


----------



## ThAbtO

This morning my Tivo HD with a 10EAVS drive kinda died. I could watch the recorded shows with trick play (REW, FF, etc), but Live TV gave me problems, took a while for trick play to work, or didn't work. Last night, it rebooted on its own. It finally ended on the green screen.

So this afternoon, went to Best buy and got a 10EARX, on sale for $80 (saved $5). I put my original WinMFS backup I had stored away on CD and restored to the new drive. Swapped out the Tivo drive with the new and the software was on 11.0h. Connected to Tivo and it did not download the guide data, instead it got the 11.0k.

Its up and running now, but warm boot still not working only cold.


----------



## John Wilson

Maybe you did this already but did you run widdle on this drive? I think that you need to run this on newer WD drives or they will have issues with the warm restart as you mentioned.

Just a suggestion. 



ThAbtO said:


> This morning my Tivo HD with a 10EAVS drive kinda died. I could watch the recorded shows with trick play (REW, FF, etc), but Live TV gave me problems, took a while for trick play to work, or didn't work. Last night, it rebooted on its own. It finally ended on the green screen.
> 
> So this afternoon, went to Best buy and got a 10EARX, on sale for $80 (saved $5). I put my original WinMFS backup I had stored away on CD and restored to the new drive. Swapped out the Tivo drive with the new and the software was on 11.0h. Connected to Tivo and it did not download the guide data, instead it got the 11.0k.
> 
> Its up and running now, but warm boot still not working only cold.


----------



## unitron

ThAbtO said:


> This morning my Tivo HD with a 10EAVS drive kinda died. I could watch the recorded shows with trick play (REW, FF, etc), but Live TV gave me problems, took a while for trick play to work, or didn't work. Last night, it rebooted on its own. It finally ended on the green screen.
> 
> So this afternoon, went to Best buy and got a 10EARX, on sale for $80 (saved $5). I put my original WinMFS backup I had stored away on CD and restored to the new drive. Swapped out the Tivo drive with the new and the software was on 11.0h. Connected to Tivo and it did not download the guide data, instead it got the 11.0k.
> 
> Its up and running now, but warm boot still not working only cold.


Apparently you neglected to run wdidle3 on that EARX.

It's not too late.


----------



## unitron

John Wilson said:


> Maybe you did this already but did you run widdle on this drive? I think that you need to run this on newer WD drives or they will have issues with the warm restart as you mentioned.
> 
> Just a suggestion.


You have to run it on WD Caviar Green drives, but the A/V specific drives, even though they may have "green" somewhere in the name or label, apparently don't have it (Intellipark) enabled by default.

And apparently Caviar Blacks, Blues, and Reds don't have it at all.


----------



## John Wilson

What unitron said. 

Tomato, potato.


----------



## unitron

You know what they say about great minds running in the same rut.


----------



## ThAbtO

unitron said:


> Apparently you neglected to run wdidle3 on that EARX.
> 
> It's not too late.


I couldn't because I didn't have a way to boot to DOS and not into Windows.

BTW, the 10EAVS lasted 2.25 yrs. I also tried to extract everything out of the drive, WinMFS said it was a Tivo drive, but MSInfo in WinMFS said it was not a Tivo drive.


----------



## unitron

ThAbtO said:


> I couldn't because I didn't have a way to boot to DOS and not into Windows.
> 
> BTW, the 10EAVS lasted 2.25 yrs. I also tried to extract everything out of the drive, WinMFS said it was a Tivo drive, but MSInfo in WinMFS said it was not a Tivo drive.


And mfsinfo on the MFS Live cd would have probably said something about a corrupt header.

If you can boot from a cd, you can use the Ultimate Boot CD, which has wdidle3 on it.

There might be some way to put it on a USB stick if you can boot from one of those.


----------



## jmbach

unitron said:


> There might be some way to put it on a USB stick if you can boot from one of those.


For Linux based iso you can use UNetbootin to create bootable USB stick. For Windows based iso you can use ISOtoUSB. Works well for most windows based iso. 
For a DOS bootable USB use HP drive storage Utility.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## ac3dd

jmbach said:


> For Linux based iso you can use UNetbootin to create bootable USB stick. For Windows based iso you can use ISOtoUSB. Works well for most windows based iso.
> For a DOS bootable USB use HP drive storage Utility.


WDIDLE3 needs a raw DOS environment, so the Linux- and Windows-based options won't be useful for it.


----------



## MaverickRK

The original post for this thread is almost 6 years old, with an update in 2010, and there are 310 pages. Is there somewhere I can find a new list of drives I can buy to replace the internal drive on a Tivo HD, and are there current instructions? Thanks.


----------



## unitron

MaverickRK said:


> The original post for this thread is almost 6 years old, with an update in 2010, and there are 310 pages. Is there somewhere I can find a new list of drives I can buy to replace the internal drive on a Tivo HD, and are there current instructions? Thanks.


Are you still running the original 160GB?

(be looking for a WD20EURS at around $100)


----------



## MaverickRK

unitron said:


> Are you still running the original 160GB?
> 
> (be looking for a WD20EURS at around $100)


Yes, I am running the original drive, which I believe is a 160GB. I saw that Amazon has a 1TB WD10EURS for about $80. Since I cannot use more than 1TB, would that one work?

And do you happen to know if this drives suffers from the "Intellipark" problem, and if it has to be set to the quiet vs performance setting, or does it come that way?

Thanks
Rick


----------



## unitron

MaverickRK said:


> Yes, I am running the original drive, which I believe is a 160GB. I saw that Amazon has a 1TB WD10EURS for about $80. Since I cannot use more than 1TB, would that one work?
> 
> And do you happen to know if this drives suffers from the "Intellipark" problem, and if it has to be set to the quiet vs performance setting, or does it come that way?
> 
> Thanks
> Rick


You can use up to 2TB in the S3 HD.

Go here and read:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179

I've got a TCD652160.

I used WinMFS to "up" it from the original drive to a 1TB middleman, and then used the jmfs cd to copy that to a WD20EURS and expand.

Others have gone straight from the 160 to the 2 without the middleman just using the jmfs cd.

And you get more GB/$ witih a 2TB than anything smaller.

That's even more true for a 3TB, but you can't use anything bigger than a 2TB in a TiVo.

And the second WD20EURS I just recently purchased and haven't installed anywhere yet came with Intellipark already disabled.


----------



## tluxon

I have two THD's that I upgraded to 750GB when I first got them. One of them had the 750GB die about 18 months ago and I upgraded it to 1TB using MFS Live, retaining all the recordings from the previous drive. The other THD still has the ''original'' 750GB upgrade drive in it which seems to be going strong, but now that I've seen a little about what can be done with comer's JMFS, I'm really interested in upgrading it to 2TB with a WD20EURS going for $100 right now at Newegg and Amazon.

1) JMFS was written for upgrading a Premiere. Are there any issues with doing this upgrade on a TiVoHD?

2) Should I anticipate any issues in copying directly from the 750GB upgrade drive to the new 2TB drive? (I see mention in the post above of a 1TB "middleman" step and wondered if/what that gains over going straight from the 750GB)

3) It looks like I would use JMFS to do the bit-for-bit copy and then use WinMFS to do the Supersize. Do I have that about right?


----------



## mattack

jmfs does work for Tivo HD. (It does NOT work with the OLED S3, though I don't think anybody figured out why.)

That's the only answer I can give.


----------



## jmbach

See my post http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9419337. You can use WinMFS for the whole process. I did this on OLED S3. Should work for THD.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## tluxon

jmbach said:


> See my post http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9419337. You can use WinMFS for the whole process. I did this on OLED S3. Should work for THD.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


Cool. Would you recommend using WinMFS over JMFS then?

Even though I've prefered to use the MFS Live CD with only the source and target HDDs attached in the past, I wouldn't actually NEED to use that method?


----------



## mattack

jmfs is MUCH easier.


----------



## jmbach

tluxon said:


> Cool. Would you recommend using WinMFS over JMFS then?
> 
> Even though I've prefered to use the MFS Live CD with only the source and target HDDs attached in the past, I wouldn't actually NEED to use that method?


I have used both and it really is a wash. Since my computer normally has windows up I use WinMFS as it was handy and I could use my computer for other things while it is copying. JMFS leads you step by step to get the job done but unless you create a custom boot CD you won't be able to do much else with your computer.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## unitron

tluxon said:


> Cool. Would you recommend using WinMFS over JMFS then?
> 
> Even though I've prefered to use the MFS Live CD with only the source and target HDDs attached in the past, I wouldn't actually NEED to use that method?


My 1TB middleman method (which was born out of my desire to increase the size of the swap partition and keep all MFS Media partitions at or under 1TB) will not work with the MFS Live cd, because it always leaves a little extra space at the end which gets turned into an Apple Free partition, and jmfs sees that as a partition and copies it, which makes the partition it adds the 17th partition, and a TiVo can only have 16 per drive.

Also, I don't know if it'll let you break the "no bigger than 1.2TB" rule the way WinMFS will.


----------



## tluxon

unitron said:


> My 1TB middleman method (which was born out of my desire to increase the size of the swap partition and keep all MFS Media partitions at or under 1TB) will not work with the MFS Live cd, because it always leaves a little extra space at the end which gets turned into an Apple Free partition, and jmfs sees that as a partition and copies it, which makes the partition it adds the 17th partition, and a TiVo can only have 16 per drive.
> 
> Also, I don't know if it'll let you break the "no bigger than 1.2TB" rule the way WinMFS will.


What is the benefit in increasing the size of the swap partition and in keeping "all MFS Media partitions at or under 1TB"? Or is that just necessary in order to use the full capacity of a 2TB drive?

Tell me if I'm understanding you correctly. Since I originally used the MFS Live CD to create the 750GB Tivo Drive, does that mean a little extra space is left at the end which JMFS would then "misuse" (by creating the taboo 17th partition) when using that as my source drive? Is there a workaround for that? Or is that what makes WinMFS a preferred (if not the only) method in my case?

Since the MFSLive.org forum seems to be inactive, is there anything special I need to do in WinMFS to permit breaking the 1.2TB rule?

Perhaps my most reliable route would be to use my other THD's 1TB drive as the "1TB middleman" source drive? (although then I don't get to copy the 750GB shows)

BTW, I have a 2nd PC that is rarely used anymore with a couple free SATA cables I can dedicate to this task. Does that tip the scales in favor of using JMFS at all?


----------



## unitron

tluxon said:


> What is the benefit in increasing the size of the swap partition and in keeping "all MFS Media partitions at or under 1TB"? Or is that just necessary in order to use the full capacity of a 2TB drive?
> 
> Tell me if I'm understanding you correctly. Since I originally used the MFS Live CD to create the 750GB Tivo Drive, does that mean a little extra space is left at the end which JMFS would then "misuse" (by creating the taboo 17th partition) when using that as my source drive? Is there a workaround for that? Or is that what makes WinMFS a preferred (if not the only) method in my case?
> 
> Since the WinLive.org forum seems to be inactive, is there anything special I need to do in WinMFS to permit breaking the 1.2TB rule?


I do not know for a fact that there is a benefit.

Once upon a time, back in the days of the Series 1s and 2s, when the 137GB barrier was being overcome, the rule of thumb suggested by those who pioneered putting larger drives in TiVos than TiVo did was 1MB of swap for every 2 GB of drive.

1 GB of swap on a 2TB drive amounts to about 15 minutes of best quality analog cable video. I consider that cheap insurance.

There used to be a 1.2 (or thereabouts) TB limit on partition size (that works out to 1 TB binary, where it's 1024 x 1024 x ...), which may no longer be the case with later verisons of the TiVo operating system software, since people using jmfs on Premiere's are adding a single partition whose size is 2TB minus the original 320GB and suffering no ill effects, but again, since I can do it in a way to keep the biggest partition under 1TB and still use all of a 2TB drive, I figure it's cheap insurance.

You can hook your 750 back up to the PC you used on it originally and boot with the MFS Live cd and run

pdisk -l /dev/sd"whatever letter corresponds to that drive"

and see if there is an Apple Free partition.

(that -l is a lowercase L)

If so, there's a procedure outlined around here somewhere by a guy upgrading an original OLED S3 that involves a hex editor to remove the last partition and all references to it in the headers of the other partions, and then use jmfs.

Or you could try using WinMFS to copy the 750 to a 2TB and after it finishes don't say yes when it offers to use the extra space, but back out and then go back and click on mfsadd to see if it won't expand that last MFS media partition into the rest of the drive and try that in the TiVo and if works, great!

You can also skip MFS Live and just start in WinMFS and click on mfsinfo and it'll show you the partition map.


----------



## ac3dd

tluxon said:


> Perhaps my most reliable route would be to use my other THD's 1TB drive as the "1TB middleman" source drive? (although then I don't get to copy the 750GB shows)


I successfully used WinMFS to go straight from 500GB to 1.5TB, with no "middleman". I chose Yes when it asked me if I wanted to expand, then No to the question about limiting the partition size to 1TB, and it created a 1.1TB partition as the last partition, with no empy-space "apple_free" 17th partition after that. It's been running without a reboot since I did the upgrade about 6 weeks ago.


----------



## unitron

ac3dd said:


> I successfully used WinMFS to go straight from 500GB to 1.5TB, with no "middleman". I chose Yes when it asked me if I wanted to expand, then No to the question about limiting the partition size to 1TB, and it created a 1.1TB partition as the last partition, with no empy-space "apple_free" 17th partition after that. It's been running without a reboot since I did the upgrade about 6 weeks ago.


On a 648 or a 652?


----------



## jmbach

I think I figured out one time that the max limit is a little over 2TB soomething like 2.12tb based on the maximum block count available in the apple partition table. If someone ever finds a way of using larger than 512mb blocks on a tivo we could go higher. 
I am not sure a middle drive would be needed to expand an S3. whatever size the initial S3 drive is, any resulting partition size plus the original partition size would be 2TB. Curently my OLED S3 has a 1.6TB MFS partition.

What would be really great is to figure out how to expand the original MFS partitions to take up 2TB then we can add an external drive for another 2TB.

Jim


----------



## unitron

jmbach said:


> I think I figured out one time that the max limit is a little over 2TB soomething like 2.12tb based on the maximum block count available in the apple partition table. If someone ever finds a way of using larger than 512mb blocks on a tivo we could go higher.
> I am not sure a middle drive would be needed to expand an S3. whatever size the initial S3 drive is, any resulting partition size plus the original partition size would be 2TB. Curently my OLED S3 has a 1.6TB MFS partition.
> 
> What would be really great is to figure out how to expand the original MFS partitions to take up 2TB then we can add an external drive for another 2TB.
> 
> Jim


It depends on whether you're talking decimal bytes or binary bytes.

Drives are labled with decimal bytes 'cause it makes the number bigger, but some OS things are labeled in binary bytes.

Curently my OLED S3 also has a 1.6TB MFS partition, but it's been re-booting once or twice a day, so I'm not sure if it's going to work out or not.

I tried to see if I could get jmfs to work on it, but it refuses to recognize the 648 software as a TiVo drive.

The middleman approach allowed me to use WinMFS to go from my HD's 160GB drive to a 1TB while increasing the swap partition size, and jmfs allowed me to copy that to a 2TB and expand into it by creating a single 16th partition, and I kept all partitions under 1TB (or 1.2TB) that way.

Anyone who does not wish to use my method is free to not do so.


----------



## S3-2501

Just thought I'd post that it's now been six months since I upgraded my OLED S3 (648) with a WD20EURS (details here.) So far the Tivo hasn't missed a thing, even when left on its own for several weeks while I was away on a trip.


----------



## dlfl

unitron said:


> .........Anyone who does not wish to use my method is free to not do so.


So ... you're granting an unlimited license NOT to use your method, correct? What if I do choose NOT to use your method and have a bad experience? Can I blame you?


----------



## jmbach

unitron said:


> It depends on whether you're talking decimal bytes or binary bytes.
> 
> Drives are labled with decimal bytes 'cause it makes the number bigger, but some OS things are labeled in binary bytes.
> 
> Curently my OLED S3 also has a 1.6TB MFS partition, but it's been re-booting once or twice a day, so I'm not sure if it's going to work out or not.
> 
> I tried to see if I could get jmfs to work on it, but it refuses to recognize the 648 software as a TiVo drive.
> 
> The middleman approach allowed me to use WinMFS to go from my HD's 160GB drive to a 1TB while increasing the swap partition size, and jmfs allowed me to copy that to a 2TB and expand into it by creating a single 16th partition, and I kept all partitions under 1TB (or 1.2TB) that way.
> 
> Anyone who does not wish to use my method is free to not do so.


The space in the partition table is 4 bytes long so you get 4294967295 total addressable blocks.

My OLED S3 has not had a single reboot problem yet. It has been about 2 months on the 2TB drive.

Might check to make sure mounting screws on the motherboard and power supply are snug so that both are grounded well. This solved a reboot problem for me in the past. The other one was replacing all the capacitors in the power supply. (even if they look good) Had a non TiVo DVR respond to that fix.

Jim
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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## ac3dd

unitron said:


> On a 648 or a 652?


648.


----------



## unitron

dlfl said:


> So ... you're granting an unlimited license NOT to use your method, correct? What if I do choose NOT to use your method and have a bad experience? Can I blame you?


Yes, but only if you can prove that you _would not have had_ a bad experience if you _had _used my method.

And if you sent me that 1TB drive after you copied it to the 2TB drive.


----------



## MPSAN

unitron said:


> Yes, but only if you can prove that you _would not have had_ a bad experience if you _had _used my method.
> 
> And if you sent me that 1TB drive after you copied it to the 2TB drive.


You guys should be in DC...perhaps Congress.


----------



## unitron

MPSAN said:


> ...perhaps Congress.


I've been insulted, disrespected, and reviled, but no one's ever sunk that low before.


----------



## MPSAN

unitron said:


> I've been insulted, disrespected, and reviled, but no one's ever sunk that low before.


Sorry! I do think that they are now even below car salesmen!


----------



## unitron

MPSAN said:


> Sorry! I do think that they are now even below car salesmen!


Right now I think they're rated somewhere below colonoscopies and venereal diseases.


----------



## dlfl

unitron said:


> Right now I think they're rated somewhere below colonoscopies and venereal diseases.


But lower than TWC support for TiVo's?


----------



## unitron

dlfl said:


> But lower than TWC support for TiVo's?


Okay, now that's really hitting below the belt.


----------



## MPSAN

unitron said:


> Okay, now that's really hitting below the belt.


OK, to get back on topic, is there any reason that there is no upgrade info on a 75 HR Premiere 4 to make it an XL4, other than a few random posts? There is plenty of info here on our Series 3's and I have all 3 of mine at 1TB, but the Premiere seems vague. TIVO wants $200, and you get the Glow Remote, but a 2TB drive is only about half that.


----------



## HerronScott

MPSAN said:


> OK, to get back on topic, is there any reason that there is no upgrade info on a 75 HR Premiere 4 to make it an XL4, other than a few random posts? There is plenty of info here on our Series 3's and I have all 3 of mine at 1TB, but the Premiere seems vague. TIVO wants $200, and you get the Glow Remote, but a 2TB drive is only about half that.


Well this is the sticky on drive upgrades in the Series 3 forum. 

Go over to the Tivo Upgrade Center forum and check out the Premiere upgrade topic using jmfs.

Scott


----------



## unitron

Lussie said:


> I have just upgraded my old Tivo S3 (one with the OLED Display) to *2TB* from an *already upgraded 1TB Drive*.
> 
> I didn't lose any shows either. :up:
> 
> So far it seems to be working. I'll give it 2 weeks to see if it is ok.
> 
> Anyway, I did this using *Windows 7*, on my laptop with a Startech USB 3.0 Dual 2.5/3.5in SATA Hard Drive Docking Station. (from Amazon: *SATDOCK22U3S*)
> 
> Also *I used a non-AF drive*: Hitachi Deskstar 3.5" 2TB 7200RPM SATA III 32MB Cache Internal Hard Drive (from Amazon: *0S02861*)
> 
> I used the following software:
> 
> winmfs (beta build 9.3f)
> iBored (1.1.10)
> 
> *STEP 1*
> 
> Start winmfs by right-clicking "*Run as Administrator*"
> Go to Tools->MFSCopy
> 
> I Un-checked "Custom Linux Swap Size"
> However *I DID CHECK "No Optimized Partition Layout"*
> 
> Click "Start" to start the copy. It took 5-6 hours for the copy to complete.
> (Yay! USB 3.0)
> 
> After the copy finishes, You will see a dialog that says "_You have extra capacity on your Hard drive. Do you want to expand?_"
> 
> *CLICK NO*
> 
> Select the "View" Menu item and click "MFSInfo"
> 
> Note that there are 16 partitions with the last one listed as "Apple_Free"
> We need to delete that last partition in Step 2.
> 
> Exit Winmfs and* EJECT YOUR TIVO SOURCE DRIVE*
> 
> *STEP 2*
> 
> Start iBored by right-clicking "*Run as Administrator*"
> 
> Select your "newly copied" tivo drive
> 
> iBored should start out on Block"0"
> 
> Go to block 16 (Either type "16" in the upper left text-panel or press CTRL-RightArrow 16 times)
> 
> in Block 16, click the "*Template*" tab
> 
> Make sure that "*Apple Partition Map:AMP Entry*" is selected in the combo box on the right. If it is not selected, make sure you select it (it's the first one)
> 
> In the Menu, Click "BlockView" -> "Make Writable"
> 
> *We are now going to erase block 16! *
> 
> Click the "*Disk*" Menu item and Select "*Erase Blocks*"
> 
> You will see a Specify Block Range Dialog
> Mine had the Following:
> 
> Block Size: 512 (because I used a non-AF drive)
> Start Block: 16 (The block we are on)
> Block Count: [_SOME HUGE NUMBER_]
> 
> Change Block Count to "1"
> 
> Click OK
> 
> You will see a "_*Really Erase?*_" dialog. Click "*Erase*"
> (*NOTE:* If you see a "_write failed: writing is not enabled_" dialog, then it means that you need to select BlockView->Make Writable)
> 
> BLOCK 16 should now be clear.
> 
> Now, move to block 15. (CTRL-LeftArrow)
> Note that "*blocks in partition map*" is "*16*"
> We need to change this value to "*15*" in blocks 1-15.
> 
> Lets do this by moving backwards.
> 
> _For each block 15 to 1 do the following:_
> 
> *BlockView->Make Writable*
> Change "*blocks in partition map*" to *15 *
> *BlockView->Save Changes*
> CTRL-LeftArrow (to go to previous block)
> 
> ok. So now you are at block 1. Just to make sure that you changed all the entries, verify that "blocks in partition map" is "15" for blocks 1-15.
> 
> Exit iBored
> 
> *STEP 3*
> 
> Start WinMFS again (*Right-Click "Run as Administrator"*)
> 
> Select Tools->MFSadd
> 
> You will get a warning about Tivo not handling partitions greater than 1 TB, but just ignore it (_hopefully, you have Tivo Software *version 11.0* on your tivo_)
> 
> _*Edited for SuperSize (Sorry I forgot that in the original post)*
> _
> *In Winmfs, click on Tools->MFSSuperSize->On*
> 
> That's it.
> 
> You now have a Tivo S3 with a 2TB Drive giving you *318 HD hours* or *2777 SD hours*.
> 
> Cheers,
> -Kevin
> 
> P.S.
> _I also upgraded my Tivo HD from an already upgraded 1 TB to 2 TB Drive (*same Hitachi as listed above*) using a similar method but replacing *Step 3* with *using JMFS* to expand it, but *WinMFS to supersize*. (Also didn't lose any shows and has been running for about 1 month now.)_


Since the TCD648 isn't recognized by jmfs for some reason as a TiVo drive, and it all has to be done with WinMFS, and since WinMFS's mfsadd will expand the 3rd MFS Media partition (which it created earlier), partition 15, into any extra space even though that space is currently marked as an Apple Free partition, is the hex editing step really necessary, or do you just need to be sure you've got version k of the TiVo software on the drive?


----------



## jmbach

unitron said:


> Since the TCD648 isn't recognized by jmfs for some reason as a TiVo drive, and it all has to be done with WinMFS, and since WinMFS's mfsadd will expand the 3rd MFS Media partition (which it created earlier), partition 15, into any extra space even though that space is currently marked as an Apple Free partition, is the hex editing step really necessary, or do you just need to be sure you've got version k of the TiVo software on the drive?


I tried it both ways and was successful in each case. The starting drive was a TiVo drive already upgraded to 1TB. Using iBored technique initially, then since I was waiting for caps for my power supply, did tried it again without iBored. Just WinMFS>MFScopy. Then close MFSCopy without expanding followed by MFSadd. (For some odd reason it would not expand the drive within MFSCopy just hang) Replaced my caps in the power supply and now have been on that drive for 2 to 3 months now without any problems. No booting or rebooting issues. My original drive was already supersized so did not fool with supersizing inside WinMFS. Also with MFScopy I did use optimize partition layout and did use 1024mb swap partition. My S3 OLED was already on version 11.0k.

So as far as my experience goes, don't need to do the hex editing as long as you are on version k.


----------



## unitron

jmbach said:


> I tried it both ways and was successful in each case. The starting drive was a TiVo drive already upgraded to 1TB. Using iBored technique initially, then since I was waiting for caps for my power supply, did tried it again without iBored. Just WinMFS>MFScopy. Then close MFSCopy without expanding followed by MFSadd. (For some odd reason it would not expand the drive within MFSCopy just hang) Replaced my caps in the power supply and now have been on that drive for 2 to 3 months now without any problems. No booting or rebooting issues. My original drive was already supersized so did not fool with supersizing inside WinMFS. Also with MFScopy I did check optimize partition layout and did use 1024mb swap partition. My S3 OLED was already on version 11.0k.
> 
> So as far as my experience goes, don't need to do the hex editing as long as you are on version k.


So apparently the real secret is Vitamin K. 

If WinMFS can do it all for a 648, then there's probably no need for jmfs on an HD, either.

Wish I knew why jmfs can see a 652 drive but not a 648 drive.


----------



## jmbach

I concur with all your statements. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## MPSAN

HerronScott said:


> Well this is the sticky on drive upgrades in the Series 3 forum.
> 
> Go over to the Tivo Upgrade Center forum and check out the Premiere upgrade topic using jmfs.
> 
> Scott


I know this is the Series 3 forum and it is what I used for my THD's when I put 1TB drives in all 3. Anyway, I looked in the Premiere forum and saw no notes on a series 4 upgrade. However, I will look at the Upgrade Center now.

Thank you.


----------



## lpwcomp

MPSAN said:


> I know this is the Series 3 forum and it is what I used for my THD's when I put 1TB drives in all 3. Anyway, I looked in the Premiere forum and saw no notes on a series 4 upgrade. However, I will look at the Upgrade Center now.
> 
> Thank you.


_*ALL*_ Premieres are Series4. The "4" in the names "Premiere 4" and "Premiere XL4 (aka Premiere Elite)" is for the number of tuners. Plus, of course, they are digital cable only.


----------



## HerronScott

MPSAN said:


> I know this is the Series 3 forum and it is what I used for my THD's when I put 1TB drives in all 3. Anyway, I looked in the Premiere forum and saw no notes on a series 4 upgrade. However, I will look at the Upgrade Center now.
> 
> Thank you.


Note I also used jmfs to upgrade my son's HD to a 2TB drive which so far is working well!

Scott


----------



## Ebuddy

Hey all! I had a bit of an "emergency" when the drive in my Tivo HD (TCD652160) died. I had a Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 (250GB) (ST3250318AS) lying around that I put a new image on and installed. It seems to meet all the required specs for a TiVo and after nearly a week, it seems to be working just fine but I was wondering if someone with a little more knowledge and experience can weigh in on whether or not this is a good, permanent solution.


----------



## jmbach

Ebuddy said:


> Hey all! I had a bit of an "emergency" when the drive in my Tivo HD (TCD652160) died. I had a Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 (250GB) (ST3250318AS) lying around that I put a new image on and installed. It seems to meet all the required specs for a TiVo and after nearly a week, it seems to be working just fine but I was wondering if someone with a little more knowledge and experience can weigh in on whether or not this is a good, permanent solution.


Purists would say no. I would not. That being said there are many people who run this kind of drive without reported problems. The major concern has been about heat generation which seems to be a moot point since there has been nothing I have seen in the forums about actual heat issues causing problems.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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## unitron

Ebuddy said:


> Hey all! I had a bit of an "emergency" when the drive in my Tivo HD (TCD652160) died. I had a Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 (250GB) (ST3250318AS) lying around that I put a new image on and installed. It seems to meet all the required specs for a TiVo and after nearly a week, it seems to be working just fine but I was wondering if someone with a little more knowledge and experience can weigh in on whether or not this is a good, permanent solution.


It's an okay semi-permanent solution, which is about the best you can hope for in situations involving hard drives.

When you put the new image on, did you use MFS Live or WinMFS, and did you expand?


----------



## Ebuddy

unitron said:


> It's an okay semi-permanent solution, which is about the best you can hope for in situations involving hard drives.
> 
> When you put the new image on, did you use MFS Live or WinMFS, and did you expand?


I used WinMFS and I expanded. Everything looked just fine, even the slight increase in storage space.


----------



## Leigh7757

I'm sorry if this has been covered somewhere, but I'm looking for a little clarification on the plug and play drives. I keep seeing that if I upgrade/change my internal HD, that the external plug and play drive will no longer work, but no background information as to why.

Losing recordings makes sense with respect to the fact that the data is broken up across the drives, so all data on both drives needs to be present for the recordings to work. I'm not really clear on why I would lose my recordings after the date of adding the plug and play expansion drive if I use something like EZ GIG IV to clone the existing internal hard drive to a new internal hard drive. As I understand it, cloning a drive should produce a drive that contains the same information. 

I also am not understanding why a plug and play drive will allegedly not work at all after installing a new internal drive. Again, I'm making the assumption that the new internal drive is a clone of the previous one.

I'm curious because my TiVo S3 has crashed and green-screened three times in the past two weeks and I'm starting to suspect that the internal hard drive is failing. I'm going to run diagnostics this afternoon to see whether my suspicions are correct, but in the meantime I'm exploring my repair options. 

All I want to do is take out the internal drive, clone it onto a new drive, and put the new one back in. I just did this to a laptop so it's not a foreign concept. I was hoping a repair on the TiVo would be as easy, but it's looking like it won't be. For the sake of argument, let's say I want to replace it with a drive of the same size as the current internal drive.


----------



## L David Matheny

Leigh7757 said:


> I'm sorry if this has been covered somewhere, but I'm looking for a little clarification on the plug and play drives. I keep seeing that if I upgrade/change my internal HD, that the external plug and play drive will no longer work, but no background information as to why.
> 
> Losing recordings makes sense with respect to the fact that the data is broken up across the drives, so all data on both drives needs to be present for the recordings to work. I'm not really clear on why I would lose my recordings after the date of adding the plug and play expansion drive if I use something like EZ GIG IV to clone the existing internal hard drive to a new internal hard drive. As I understand it, cloning a drive should produce a drive that contains the same information.
> 
> I also am not understanding why a plug and play drive will allegedly not work at all after installing a new internal drive. Again, I'm making the assumption that the new internal drive is a clone of the previous one.
> 
> I'm curious because my TiVo S3 has crashed and green-screened three times in the past two weeks and I'm starting to suspect that the internal hard drive is failing. I'm going to run diagnostics this afternoon to see whether my suspicions are correct, but in the meantime I'm exploring my repair options.
> 
> All I want to do is take out the internal drive, clone it onto a new drive, and put the new one back in. I just did this to a laptop so it's not a foreign concept. I was hoping a repair on the TiVo would be as easy, but it's looking like it won't be. For the sake of argument, let's say I want to replace it with a drive of the same size as the current internal drive.


You should get replies that are more expert than mine, but I think if you clone the internal drive to a functionally identical replacement drive, your external drive should still work. If you clone to a larger internal drive (and "expand", adding more partitions to the internal drive), I don't know whether that could work, but I would guess maybe not.

In any case, do run manufacturer diagnostic scans on any drive before you assume it's failing. And you could try a different eSATA cable on the external drive, since eSATA doesn't seem to be a very reliable connection method.


----------



## a68oliver

Leigh7757 said:


> I'm curious because my TiVo S3 has crashed and green-screened three times in the past two weeks and I'm starting to suspect that the internal hard drive is failing. I'm going to run diagnostics this afternoon to see whether my suspicions are correct, but in the meantime I'm exploring my repair options.


Have you investigated the possibility of "capacitor plague?"


----------



## Leigh7757

L David Matheny said:


> You should get replies that are more expert than mine, but I think if you clone the internal drive to a functionally identical replacement drive, your external drive should still work. If you clone to a larger internal drive (and "expand", adding more partitions to the internal drive), I don't know whether that could work, but I would guess maybe not.
> 
> In any case, do run manufacturer diagnostic scans on any drive before you assume it's failing. And you could try a different eSATA cable on the external drive, since eSATA doesn't seem to be a very reliable connection method.


Thanks, that was my suspicion. I do plan to run the diagnostics before I do anything, but as I was doing a little research I was coming up blank on the reasons that a cloned drive wouldn't work since nothing said it wouldn't work specifically with a larger drive.

The eSATA cable might be an issue since a non-human knocked it off of where it was sitting and jammed it nicely behind the entertainment center in the first week we had it, but it has worked fine in the year since. I'll be sure to check that if the drive diagnostics come back okay.


----------



## Teeps

L David Matheny said:


> You should get replies that are more expert than mine,
> but I think if you clone the internal drive to a functionally identical replacement drive, your external drive should still work.


Leigh7757
I am not an "expert" on this subject. 
But I can confirm that the above statement is true. 
As I have done just that with a Seagate Barracuda drive of the same size (replaced a 250 TiVo with Seagate 250 using dd to copy/clone original drive.)


----------



## Leigh7757

Teeps said:


> Leigh7757
> I am not an "expert" on this subject.
> But I can confirm that the above statement is true.
> As I have done just that with a Seagate Barracuda drive of the same size (replaced a 250 TiVo with Seagate 250 using dd to copy/clone original drive.)


Thanks. Honestly, someone giving me an example of it working or not working was what I was looking for, so this was perfect. I know it doesn't guarantee it'll work for me if I take that path, but it makes me a little more optimistic.


----------



## jmbach

While you have your Tivo open, check for bulging capacitors in the power supply as it can cause issues as well. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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## jmbach

It sounds like on your internal drive you are okay. Need to check your external drive as with diagnostics. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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## unitron

You need to suspect the power supply, both drives, and the eSATA cable.

If you "Xerox" the internal drive to a larger one and then expand into the extra space, you'll possibly confuse whatever system TiVo uses to spread recordings over both drives.

I seem to recall reading that one could only add an external to the various S3 models if one had not already replaced the internal drive with a larger one.

My personal preference for hard drive "Xeroxing" is to use

dd_rescue

on the MFS Live cd v1.4, with the verbose option invoked.


----------



## Leigh7757

jmbach said:


> While you have your Tivo open, check for bulging capacitors in the power supply as it can cause issues as well.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2





jmbach said:


> It sounds like on your internal drive you are okay. Need to check your external drive as with diagnostics.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2





unitron said:


> You need to suspect the power supply, both drives, and the eSATA cable.


I do intend on running diagnostics on everything, but I'll be sure to visually check for bulging capacitors if the drives say they're okay. It's going to take a little while for me to get another eSATA cable, so maybe I'll open it before I check that bit. I've already opened the box in the past (to fix the plasma tv interference with the remote sensor) and I'm way out of warranty, so it won't hurt to open it up. I meant to get to this last night, but it didn't happen, so the cause of the issue is still a mystery.



unitron said:


> If you "Xerox" the internal drive to a larger one and then expand into the extra space, you'll possibly confuse whatever system TiVo uses to spread recordings over both drives.
> 
> I seem to recall reading that one could only add an external to the various S3 models if one had not already replaced the internal drive with a larger one.


I keep reading that also, but none of the places I saw it cite any sources. Maybe it's just user experience? I guess it makes sense that TiVo isn't looking to tell everyone how it splits the recordings up.


----------



## dlfl

Leigh7757 said:


> .........
> I keep reading that also, but none of the places I saw it cite any sources. Maybe it's just user experience? I guess it makes sense that TiVo isn't looking to tell everyone how it splits the recordings up.


You're getting the picture now. It's ALL just user exerience.

I don't know what size your drives are but I think you will probably save yourself a lot of hassle, and probably money in the long run, by just scrapping (or re-purposing) both of them and upgrading to a new 2 TB internal (WD20EURS) which can be done for $100.


----------



## unitron

dlfl said:


> You're getting the picture now. It's ALL just user exerience...


You mean you never got your copy of "_The Official TiVo, Inc., Guide To Doing All Those Things We Never Intended For You To Do Or For Us To Have To Explain To You_"?


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## dlfl

unitron said:


> You mean you never got your copy of "_The Official TiVo, Inc., Guide To Doing All Those Things We Never Intended For You To Do Or For Us To Have To Explain To You_"?


I'm waiting for you and co-author lrhorer to finish it.  I bet you're having a lot of trouble editing his verbosity down to fit a reasonable page length goal.


----------



## Teeps

Leigh7757 said:


> Thanks. Honestly, someone giving me an example of it working or not working was what I was looking for, so this was perfect. I know it doesn't guarantee it'll work for me if I take that path, but it makes me a little more optimistic.


You're welcome.
The great thing about this forum, there is little chaff to sift, to get to the desired information.
And rarely is there blatant misinformation posted. And, when it does appear it's quickly corrected.

Additionally.
There is a guy (dvr_dude) on ebay that can combine the recordings from a TiVo internal and external drive and put them on one internal drive of larger size.
He offers 2TB upgrades for S3 TiVos, of which I have in my S3-OLED TiVo.


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## malaplan

OK. My MyDVRExpander drive failed and I've read through the upgrade instructions for Tivo HD. I've decided on an internal HD upgrade using WinMFS. Trouble is, the MFSLive forum doesn't give me an option for registering so I can't login to download the program. The MFSLive Forum home page doesn't even give me a way to contact the administrators. Is the site down? Are the board administrators on vacation?


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## jmbach

You could use JMFS since you mentioned it was a S3HD. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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## unitron

malaplan said:


> OK. My MyDVRExpander drive failed and I've read through the upgrade instructions for Tivo HD. I've decided on an internal HD upgrade using WinMFS. Trouble is, the MFSLive forum doesn't give me an option for registering so I can't login to download the program. The MFSLive Forum home page doesn't even give me a way to contact the administrators. Is the site down? Are the board administrators on vacation?


PM sent.

Don't mention it.

Seriously, don't.

What drive do you plan to use for the upgrade?

Does your PC have a GigaByte brand motherboard?


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## malaplan

unitron said:


> What drive do you plan to use for the upgrade?
> 
> Does your PC have a GigaByte brand motherboard?


I've got a WD AV-GP 1 TB AV Hard Drive that I plan to use. My PC has an ASUS motherboard.


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## malaplan

jmbach said:


> You could use JMFS since you mentioned it was a S3HD.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


Thanks!


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## unitron

malaplan said:


> Thanks!


Better to use WinMFS since you're only going to use a 1TB drive.

Then later you can still use jmfs to expand that onto a 2TB drive.


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## malaplan

unitron said:


> Better to use WinMFS since you're only going to use a 1TB drive.
> 
> Then later you can still use jmfs to expand that onto a 2TB drive.


Thanks so much for your help!


----------



## Mad Chemist

Going on a couple of weeks since upgrading my 160GB Tivo HD to 2GB. Replaced the stock 160GB drive with a WD20EURS. Used jmfs to copy and expand and then WinMFS to turn on supersize. Working perfect. Preserved all my recordings, season passes and settings. Thanks to everyone that made this possible!


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## A J Ricaud

Newegg.com has the Western Digital WD Green WD20EARX 2TB 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive for $84.99 with promo code EMCXVWV34.


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## jonapt

After ploughing through the posts here, it seems that the recommended path to get to 2TB from a virgin 648 is:

- Use WinMfs to expand 256GB to 1 TB
- Use MJFS to copy 1 TB to 2TB
- Use WinMFS to SuperSize the 2TB

My 1TB 648's disk died without warning. Pulled it out, and all it does is run re-calibrates every few seconds. It is not recognized by Tivo or the PC. I tried leaving it in the freezer overnight in the hope that it would come up for the few minutes needed to run a truncated backup. Losing the recordings is one thing, re-building the scheduled and suggested programs is another.

With nothing to copy, it was like upgrading from scratch and I saw no mention of a procedure which does not require an intermediate drive and subsequent copying. Below is the single stage WinMFS process I tried which appears to have worked.

If you don't have a .tbk of your original 256GB drive you can download one from http://dl.dropbox.com/u/49887720/648250b.tbk (the time to complete is less if you Restore from your machine's .tbk - mine was 11.0g, and so too is the download).

WinMFS/File/Restore .tbk (with swap space set to 512)
- "You have extra capacity on your Hard drive. Do you want to expand?"
- No

WinMFS/Tools/MFSadd
- 14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
- 15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.6T)
- Total SA SD Hours: 2082 Total DTV SD Hours: 1818 100 % Free
- Software: 11.0g-01-2-648 Tivo Model: TCD648250B

WinMFS/Tools/MFS SuperSize
- 14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
- 15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.6T)
- Total SA SD Hours: 2082 Total DTV SD Hours: 1818 100 % Free
- Software: 11.0g-01-2-648 Tivo Model: TCD648250B

Partitions 1-13 are same as listed in Post #9253

Install 2TB drive in 648

a) If you restore with 648250b.tbk you have to go through initialization, and about 45 minutes later you can pick up at step b).

b) Clear & Delete Everything.

c) Go through initialization and about 45 minutes later you have a fully functional 2TB Tivo.

System Information shows the unit has a capacity of 318 HD hours and 2776 SD hours.

There could be a disaster waiting in the wings, so will not feel confident until next week, as two things remain to be done:

1) The software is still at 11.0g and if it does not upgrade to 11.0k in the next couple of days will have to force a kickstart (I expected the software to have been updated during inititalization and/or the reboot after initialization).

2) Recording have been set to start on the sixth hour every day for 5:55 on two HD channels to build up the hours as quickly as possible. At approximately 40 hours/day for 8 days the Tivo should start reclaiming space to record the "Until I Delete" programs.

If something goes south, will report back, but at the moment am feeling optimistic.

BTW, if you happen to respond Yes to Restore's offer to Expand, WinMFS will create an Apple partition. If you do respond Yes accidentally, drop back to Restore and be more careful the second time the question is asked.

WinMFS/View/MFSInfo/
- 14 Apple_Free Extra 3417845567 489183600 (1.6T)
- Total SA SD Hours: 259 Total DTV SD Hours: 226 99 % Free

Tivo's naming conventions make S3 HD and HD very ambiguous - the 648 and 652 are both Series 3 HD models. Unicon has pleaded a couple of times for writers to use model codes, and it would certainly help to improve readability if his request was honored.


----------



## unitron

jonapt said:


> After ploughing through the posts here, it seems that the recommended path to get to 2TB from a virgin 648 is:
> 
> - Use WinMfs to expand 256GB to 1 TB
> - Use MJFS to copy 1 TB to 2TB
> - Use WinMFS to SuperSize the 2TB
> 
> My 1TB 648's disk died without warning. Pulled it out, and all it does is run re-calibrates every few seconds. It is not recognized by Tivo or the PC. I tried leaving it in the freezer overnight in the hope that it would come up for the few minutes needed to run a truncated backup. Losing the recordings is one thing, re-building the scheduled and suggested programs is another.
> 
> With nothing to copy, it was like upgrading from scratch and I saw no mention of a procedure which does not require an intermediate drive and subsequent copying. Below is the single stage WinMFS process I tried which appears to have worked.
> 
> If you don't have a .tbk of your original 256GB drive you can download one from http://dl.dropbox.com/u/49887720/648250b.tbk (the time to complete is less if you Restore from your machine's .tbk - mine was 11.0g, and so too is the download).
> 
> WinMFS/File/Restore .tbk
> - "You have extra capacity on your Hard drive. Do you want to expand?"
> - No
> 
> WinMFS/Tools/MFSadd
> - 14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
> - 15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.6T)
> - Total SA SD Hours: 2082 Total DTV SD Hours: 1818 100 % Free
> - Software: 11.0g-01-2-648 Tivo Model: TCD648250B
> 
> WinMFS/Tools/MFS SuperSize
> - 14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
> - 15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.6T)
> - Total SA SD Hours: 2082 Total DTV SD Hours: 1818 100 % Free
> - Software: 11.0g-01-2-648 Tivo Model: TCD648250B
> 
> Partitions 1-13 are same as listed in Post #9253
> 
> Install 2TB drive in 648
> 
> a) If you restore with 648250b.tbk you have to go through initialization, and about 45 minutes later you can pick up at step b).
> 
> b) Clear & Delete Everything.
> 
> c) Go through initialization and about 45 minutes later you have a fully functional 2TB Tivo.
> 
> System Information shows the unit has a capacity of 318 HD hours and 2776 SD hours.
> 
> There could be a disaster waiting in the wings, so will not feel confident until next week, as two things remain to be done:
> 
> 1) The software is still at 11.0g and if it does not upgrade to 11.0k in the next couple of days will have to force a kickstart (I expected the software to have been updated during inititalization and/or the reboot after initialization).
> 
> 2) Recording have been set to start on the sixth hour every day for 5:55 on two HD channels to build up the hours as quickly as possible. At approximately 40 hours/day for 8 days the Tivo should start reclaiming space to record the "Until I Delete" programs.
> 
> If something goes south, will report back, but at the moment am feeling optimistic.
> 
> BTW, if you happen to respond Yes to Restore's offer to Expand, WinMFS will create an Apple partition. If you do respond Yes accidentally, drop back to Restore and be more careful the second time the question is asked.
> 
> WinMFS/View/MFSInfo/
> - 14 Apple_Free Extra 3417845567 489183600 (1.6T)
> - Total SA SD Hours: 259 Total DTV SD Hours: 226 99 % Free
> 
> Tivo's naming conventions make S3 HD and HD very ambiguous - the 648 and 652 are both Series 3 HD models. Unicon has pleaded a couple of times for writers to use model codes, and it would certainly help to improve readability if his request was honored.


Don't unhitch that plough just yet.

As far as is known, jmfs will not recognize a 648 drive as a TiVo drive, even though it will recognize a 652 drive.

So instead of getting WinMFS to add a 14th and 15th partition, and then getting jmfs to add a 16th, as can be done with the S3 HD, one has to settle for WinMFS adding a 14th and 15th with the 15th, the MFS Media partition, being over 1.2TB in size.

However, it's starting to look as though if one has version 11.0k of the TiVo OS on one's drive, one can use just WinMFS to upgrade a 652 or even a 648 to 2TB without having to do any hex editing--currently awaiting experimental results.


----------



## jmbach

unitron said:


> However, it's starting to look as though if one has version 11.0k of the TiVo OS on one's drive, one can use just WinMFS to upgrade a 652 or even a 648 to 2TB without having to do any hex editing--currently awaiting experimental results.


This is what I have done to my 648 and has been working well for past 4 months. 
Jim

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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## unitron

jmbach said:


> This is what I have done to my 648 and has been working well for past 4 months.
> Jim
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


Please define "this" more specifically.


----------



## jmbach

unitron said:


> Please define "this" more specifically.


This. My 648 was expanded to 1TB already. Used WinMFS to copy to 2TB then had it expand it. It partition 15 is now about 1.6TB in size.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## unitron

jmbach said:


> This. My 648 was expanded to 1TB already. Used WinMFS to copy to 2TB then had it expand it. It partition 15 is now about 1.6TB in size.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


Excellent. I assume you used WinMFS to take it to 1TB, but even if you used the MFS Live cd and had a little Apple Free partition on the end, which jmfs wouldn't be able to overcome if jmfs could recognize 648 drives in the first place, WinMFS knows how to change them over to used space with no problem.

So the 648 up to 2TB method is make sure you're running 11.0k and then do it with WinMFS.

No hex editing necessary.


----------



## jmbach

unitron said:


> So the 648 up to 2TB method is make sure you're running 11.0k and then do it with WinMFS.
> 
> No hex editing necessary.


Yes that is correct. The method I used was using WinMFS only when doing the expansion. (WinMFS was used with the initial expansion to 1TB and then later to 2TB) The OS version is 11.0k. That is the only version I have tested.

When I was looking to expand to 2TB, I did experiment with the hex editing method which worked as well but in the end it was not necessary.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## dlfl

unitron said:


> .......
> So the 648 up to 2TB method is make sure you're running 11.0k and then do it with WinMFS.
> 
> No hex editing necessary.


I assume "running 11.0k" means the image you put on the 2TB drive is a WinMFS backup of a smaller drive that had 11.0k on it, correct?

Does the same WinMFS-only procedure apply to the 652 model? In particular, if I start with a WinMFS backup of my current 1TB drive with 11.0k on it and upgrade to 2TB?


----------



## unitron

dlfl said:


> I assume "running 11.0k" means the image you put on the 2TB drive is a WinMFS backup of a smaller drive that had 11.0k on it, correct?
> 
> Does the same WinMFS-only procedure apply to the 652 model? In particular, if I start with a WinMFS backup of my current 1TB drive with 11.0k on it and upgrade to 2TB?


If that 1TB drive does not have a 16th Apple Free partition on the end, you can use the jmfs cd to copy it byte for byte to the 2TB and then add a single MFS Media partition (for a total of 16, the limit per drive for a TiVo) to use the other 1TB.

Or you could use WinMFS to copy the 1TB to the 2TB, preserving all of your recordings and settings, and, whether there's an Apple Free partition on the 1TB or not, use WinMFS to expand that 15th MFS Media partition to use the rest of that 2TB, which will give you a partition about 1.6TB in size.

If you're already running 11.0k on that 1TB, it'll be able to handle a partition that large, whereas previously there was a 1.2TB limit.


----------



## InFromTheCold

unitron said:


> If that 1TB drive does not have a 16th Apple Free partition on the end, you can use the jmfs cd to copy it byte for byte to the 2TB and then add a single MFS Media partition (for a total of 16, the limit per drive for a TiVo) to use the other 1TB.
> 
> Or you could use WinMFS to copy the 1TB to the 2TB, preserving all of your recordings and settings, and, whether there's an Apple Free partition on the 1TB or not, use WinMFS to expand that 15th MFS Media partition to use the rest of that 2TB, which will give you a partition about 1.6TB in size.
> 
> If you're already running 11.0k on that 1TB, it'll be able to handle a partition that large, whereas previously there was a 1.2TB limit.


To your thinking, is there an advantage in doing it one way versus the other? (Spoken as a person who's still amazed & delighted that I managed to upgrade to 1TB using WinMFS -- if, given the above conditions, I could upgrade to 2TB using the method that worked for me before, I'll be happy to go that route.) And if this is truly an option, I'm sure my fellow followers of this thread would be interested in knowing that.


----------



## unitron

InFromTheCold said:


> To your thinking, is there an advantage in doing it one way versus the other? (Spoken as a person who's still amazed & delighted that I managed to upgrade to 1TB using WinMFS -- if, given the above conditions, I could upgrade to 2TB using the method that worked for me before, I'll be happy to go that route.) And if this is truly an option, I'm sure my fellow followers of this thread would be interested in knowing that.


I don't know enough to know if one way is better than the other.

To me, the only advantage (once you've made sure there's no Apple Free partition about which to worry) is that WinMFS will let you expand the size of the swap partition as part of the copying process.

Which I can't say for sure is worth the bother or not, but a 1GB swap partition is only about 15 minutes of video, so I consider it cheap insurance.

But plenty of people have used jmfs on their Premieres and S3 HDs and left the swap partition the same size as on the stock drive and as far as we know it hasn't hurt them any.

And of course if you have a Premiere, none of the above matters because your only choice is to use jmfs to copy the original drive.


----------



## InFromTheCold

unitron said:


> I don't know enough to know if one way is better than the other.
> 
> To me, the only advantage (once you've made sure there's no Apple Free partition about which to worry) is that WinMFS will let you expand the size of the swap partition as part of the copying process.
> 
> Which I can't say for sure is worth the bother or not, but a 1GB swap partition is only about 15 minutes of video, so I consider it cheap insurance.
> 
> But plenty of people have used jmfs on their Premieres and S3 HDs and left the swap partition the same size as on the stock drive and as far as we know it hasn't hurt them any.
> 
> And of course if you have a Premiere, none of the above matters because your only choice is to use jmfs to copy the original drive.


Thanks. In my case, I'm strictly in THD country. I'm at the point where I've determined that the EARX drive that replaced my RMA'd drive is ship-shape, now I just need to carve out a stretch of time to dismantle the Tivo and do the copying. I'll report back on that other thread when I do, just b/c I started the conversation there.


----------



## dlfl

unitron said:


> ............
> Or you could use WinMFS to copy the 1TB to the 2TB, preserving all of your recordings and settings, and, whether there's an Apple Free partition on the 1TB or not, use WinMFS to expand that 15th MFS Media partition to use the rest of that 2TB, which will give you a partition about 1.6TB in size.
> 
> If you're already running 11.0k on that 1TB, it'll be able to handle a partition that large, whereas previously there was a 1.2TB limit.


I'm not that concerned with saving my current recordings. (I mainly use TiVo for short term time shifting rather than archival storage.) I did my 1TB expansion with WinMFS using a truncated backup from the original 160GB drive via a (single) USB-SATA cable (thus avoiding messing with sata connections on my PC motherboard). If I'm willing to lose my recordings can I do this as follows:

1. Make truncated back up of current (11.0k) 1 TB drive using WinMFS (and USB-SATA cable).
2. Use WinMFS (and USB-SATA cable) to put that backup on the 2 TB drive.
3. Supersize using WinMFS.

Or does your recipe work only if both old and new drive are connected to PC at the same time (as required when WinMFS copies recordings over)? This of course isn't practical using USB-SATA adapters because it takes forever to copy the recordings.

Just a reminder in case context has been lost by now: My tivo is a 652.


----------



## jonapt

unitron said:


> As far as is known, jmfs will not recognize a 648 drive as a TiVo drive, even though it will recognize a 652 drive.


Can't offer an opinion on jmfs, have never used it.



> So instead of getting WinMFS to add a 14th and 15th partition, and then getting jmfs to add a 16th, as can be done with the S3 HD, one has to settle for WinMFS adding a 14th and 15th with the 15th, the MFS Media partition, being over 1.2TB in size.


I know the old paradigm was nothing >1.2TB would work but do we know for sure there is something 'wrong' with the 15th partition being 1.6TB?

If the 648 only uses 1.2TB of the 1.6TB assigned I wouldn't be able to tell because Tivo provides no usage statistics on storage. OTOH, if the 648 goes down hard when recordings exceed 1.2TB I'll found out next week...



> However, it's starting to look as though if one has version 11.0k of the TiVo OS on one's drive, one can use just WinMFS to upgrade a 652 or even a 648 to 2TB without having to do any hex editing--currently awaiting experimental results.


My .tbk was 11.0g and three days later it is still 11.0g, so 11.0k is not essential to assign partitions on a 2TB drive with WinMFS.



> If you're already running 11.0k on that 1TB, it'll be able to handle a partition that large, whereas previously there was a 1.2TB limit.


I doubt that swap space is a consideration, but I set the swap size to 512MB, and partition 15 was assigned at 1.6TB.

My plan was to force a kickstart to get upgraded to 11.0k but will leave it as-is and wait to see what happens next week when 11.0g has to recover storage to record new programs.

If it turns out that 11.0k does have 'magic' then replacing the 11.0g at dropbox with an 11.0k would be a good idea.



dlfl said:


> If I'm willing to lose my recordings can I do this as follows:
> 
> 1. Make truncated back up of current (11.0k) 1 TB drive using WinMFS (and USB-SATA cable).
> 2. Use WinMFS (and USB-SATA cable) to put that backup on the 2 TB drive.
> 3. Supersize using WinMFS.


That may not work because when I expanded to the 1 TB drive, WinMFS assigned an Apple partition. My concern was that a pre-existing Apple partition would prevent WinMFS successfully expanding to a 2 TB drive. My goal was to prevent creation of an Apple partition, which is why I started with a virgin .tbk and went the MFSadd plus MFS SuperSize route. You don't need 11.0k to get to a 2 TB drive. My Tivo is a 648, but the same procedure should work just as well on a 652.


----------



## unitron

dlfl said:


> I'm not that concerned with saving my current recordings. (I mainly use TiVo for short term time shifting rather than archival storage.) I did my 1TB expansion with WinMFS using a truncated backup from the original 160GB drive via a (single) USB-SATA cable (thus avoiding messing with sata connections on my PC motherboard). If I'm willing to lose my recordings can I do this as follows:
> 
> 1. Make truncated back up of current (11.0k) 1 TB drive using WinMFS (and USB-SATA cable).
> 2. Use WinMFS (and USB-SATA cable) to put that backup on the 2 TB drive.
> 3. Supersize using WinMFS.
> 
> Or does your recipe work only if both old and new drive are connected to PC at the same time (as required when WinMFS copies recordings over)? This of course isn't practical using USB-SATA adapters because it takes forever to copy the recordings.
> 
> Just a reminder in case context has been lost by now: My tivo is a 652.


Supersize is not the same as expand.

Supersize undoes the "save x amount of space for the adds and showcases and such that gets either sent down the intarwebs or copied from the all-paid programming cable channel in the middle of the night".

In your case as long as you don't mind losing the recordings you can make a backup with WinMFS, then restore it to the 2TB, don't accept when it offers to expand, test it in the TiVo, then hook it back to the PC, launch WinMFS and click on mfsadd to use the entire drive, and then use WinMFS to supersize.

Or you could watch up and delete all of your recordings, make a full backup with the MFS Live cd v1.4, restore that to the 2TB with MFS Live, test it in the TiVo, and then use WinMFS to mfsadd and supersize.

Your choice. Second version might save the opening animation or something. Not my area of expertise.


----------



## unitron

jonapt said:


> Can't offer an opinion on jmfs, have never used it.
> 
> I know the old paradigm was nothing >1.2TB would work but do we know for sure there is something 'wrong' with the 15th partition being 1.6TB?
> 
> If the 648 only uses 1.2TB of the 1.6TB assigned I wouldn't be able to tell because Tivo provides no usage statistics on storage. OTOH, if the 648 goes down hard when recordings exceed 1.2TB I'll found out next week...
> 
> My .tbk was 11.0g and three days later it is still 11.0g, so 11.0k is not essential to assign partitions on a 2TB drive with WinMFS.
> 
> I doubt that swap space is a consideration, but I set the swap size to 512MB, and partition 15 was assigned at 1.6TB.
> 
> My plan was to force a kickstart to get upgraded to 11.0k but will leave it as-is and wait to see what happens next week when 11.0g has to recover storage to record new programs.
> 
> If it turns out that 11.0k does have 'magic' then replacing the 11.0g at dropbox with an 11.0k would be a good idea.
> 
> That may not work because when I expanded to the 1 TB drive, WinMFS assigned an Apple partition. My concern was that a pre-existing Apple partition would prevent WinMFS successfully expanding to a 2 TB drive. My goal was to prevent creation of an Apple partition, which is why I started with a virgin .tbk and went the MFSadd plus MFS SuperSize route. You don't need 11.0k to get to a 2 TB drive. My Tivo is a 648, but the same procedure should work just as well on a 652.


Are my 652 images in the "don't PM me" thread only 11.0g?

I didn't really notice when I made them, but the 652 I got had been down with capacitor plague for a while (which is how I got it for just shipping), so I guess it's possible.

I may have to look into doing something about it if I get a long stretch of "nothing to do but catch up on old business" time.

Should be possible to restore it to a 2TB without expanding, run it in the TiVo long enough to both test and get updated to 11.0k, and then expand.

I don't think a 1.6TB Apple Free partition will bother it since it won't be trying to use it.


----------



## jonapt

unitron said:


> Are my 652 images in the "don't PM me" thread only 11.0g?


I'm a 648, it is dlsl who has the 652. It is the 648s at dropbox which are 11.0g



> I don't think a 1.6TB Apple Free partition will bother it since it won't be trying to use it.


Since a 648 has more issues than the 652 I wanted to avoid the Apple partition to boost my chances of success.


----------



## unitron

jonapt said:


> I'm a 648, it is dlsl who has the 652. It is the 648s at dropbox which are 11.0g
> 
> Since a 648 has more issues than the 652 I wanted to avoid the Apple partition to boost my chances of success.


I don't know that the 648 necessarily has issues to a greater extent than the 652.

jmfs can see 652 drives but not 648 drives for some reason, but I see that as a shortcoming of jmfs (although since I don't know how it works I could be wrong, and anyway it was never intended to deal with any S3 model).

The Apple Free partition is only a problem when trying to use jmfs to do an upgrade of an upgrade, WinMFS eats 'em for lunch.

I put that 648 image up there before actually owning or ever getting my hands on a 648.

Now that I have one I'm putting into service I'll try to put an 11.0k image in it's place as soon as I can.


----------



## dlfl

unitron said:


> .......
> In your case [expanding a 652 from 1TB to 2TB] as long as you don't mind losing the recordings you can make a backup with WinMFS, then restore it to the 2TB, don't accept when it offers to expand, test it in the TiVo, then hook it back to the PC, launch WinMFS and click on mfsadd to use the entire drive, and then use WinMFS to supersize.
> ......


Thanks, but I'm confused about the "... test it in the TiVo..." step before doing the mfsadd step. Is this necessary because running it in the TiVo changes something on the drive that's needed before mfsadd? Or is it really to "test" something? What is it testing -- and -- what if the "test" fails? (Also, if the "test" requires filling the 1TB to see what happens, then it will take a long time.)


----------



## unitron

dlfl said:


> Thanks, but I'm confused about the "... test it in the TiVo..." step before doing the mfsadd step. Is this necessary because running it in the TiVo changes something on the drive that's needed before mfsadd? Or is it really to "test" something? What is it testing -- and -- what if the "test" fails? (Also, if the "test" requires filling the 1TB to see what happens, then it will take a long time.)


Think of it as a belt and suspenders approach.

Unless you need to run it before expansion in order to get it to phone home and get updated to 11.0k, then it's not about the TiVo changing anything on it, and I suppose it wouldn't be absolutely necessary, but if you don't do it that way and it doesn't work, how do you know if the problem was in the original restoration or in the expansion?

It's kind of like the approach to troubleshooting and diagnosis--change only one thing at a time and see what happens.

As for testing it in the TiVo, just hook it up to the cable harness, let it hang out the back of the open chassis, plug it in the wall, see if it boots up, check your now playing list, play a little of the oldest and newest recordings, change channels a few times, call it good, tell it to restart, pull the cord just as it does, and do the expansion.

Then test it again the same way, if all seems well, shut down the same way, then actually re-install the drive bracket with the drive attached, hook it up, plug it in, check the usual, shut down, put the lid back on, call it done.


----------



## dlfl

unitron said:


> Think of it as a belt and suspenders approach.
> 
> Unless you need to run it before expansion in order to get it to phone home and get updated to 11.0k, then it's not about the TiVo changing anything on it, and I suppose it wouldn't be absolutely necessary, but if you don't do it that way and it doesn't work, how do you know if the problem was in the original restoration or in the expansion?
> 
> It's kind of like the approach to troubleshooting and diagnosis--change only one thing at a time and see what happens.
> .......


OK, I get it. I suspect the fun really starts when it doesn't work right after one of the steps -- but I will hope that doesn't happen.


----------



## dianebrat

Followup to a question I asked in another thread now that it looks like 11.0k can handle 2TB drives.

I have a clean 250GB original 648 drive, I have no problem putting it in the box and getting it up to 11.0k.

Is the takeaway that with 11.0k I can then use WinMFS to copy and then expand and it'll use the 2.0TB? I would love to get rid of my dual 1TB drives and remove the external case.


----------



## mattack

dianebrat said:


> Followup to a question I asked in another thread now that it looks like 11.0k can handle 2TB drives.


Can you provide a link and/or more information? Are you claiming that Tivos now handle bigger drives? From what to what? (I presume you mean 'to 2 TB', but I thought people have been using 2 TB drives fully for a long time.)


----------



## unitron

mattack said:


> Can you provide a link and/or more information? Are you claiming that Tivos now handle bigger drives? From what to what? (I presume you mean 'to 2 TB', but I thought people have been using 2 TB drives fully for a long time.)


The big deal here is that you can do it with a 648 as well as a 652, and you don't need jmfs, WinMFS can handle it all, because 11.0k will handle a partition over 1.2TB in size.


----------



## dianebrat

mattack said:


> Can you provide a link and/or more information? Are you claiming that Tivos now handle bigger drives? From what to what? (I presume you mean 'to 2 TB', but I thought people have been using 2 TB drives fully for a long time.)


The TivoHD has been able to do 2TB on a single drive since JMFS was found to work on it, the catch was always that the original 648/OLED S3 was not able to go that high and topped at 1.2TB for a single drive. This thread and the comment by Unitron in another thread pointed out that with 11.0k (and possibly 11.0g) you can expand a 648 image to 2TB, that's a huge step forward for me, I'd been keeping an eye out for this discussion for a while but this was the first I'd heard of it.


----------



## unitron

dianebrat said:


> The TivoHD has been able to do 2TB on a single drive since JMFS was found to work on it, the catch was always that the original 648/OLED S3 was not able to go that high and topped at 1.2TB for a single drive. This thread and the comment by Unitron in another thread pointed out that with 11.0k (and possibly 11.0g) you can expand a 648 image to 2TB, that's a huge step forward for me, I'd been keeping an eye out for this discussion for a while but this was the first I'd heard of it.


That whole issue was complicated by jmfs being able, for whatever reason, to detect an S3 HD (652) drive as a TiVo drive, but not the 648 (original OLED display S3) drive.

EDIT: Okay, maybe not complicated exactly, so much as the confusion was added to by "jmfs being able..."


----------



## mattack

I have no Windows&#8230; So obviously can't use WinMFS.

Oh, so you're saying that jmfs now works with OLED S3? That's good to know (though my OLED is currently dead).


----------



## dianebrat

mattack said:


> I have no Windows So obviously can't use WinMFS.
> 
> Oh, so you're saying that jmfs now works with OLED S3? That's good to know (though my OLED is currently dead).


Not at all, what's being said is that with 11.0k you can now use WinMFS on a single 648 drive and expand it to 2.0TB bypassing the previous 1.2TB limit, no JMFS needed.


----------



## unitron

mattack said:


> I have no Windows So obviously can't use WinMFS.
> 
> Oh, so you're saying that jmfs now works with OLED S3? That's good to know (though my OLED is currently dead).


jmfs DOES NOT work with the 648 because it won't or can't detect the 648 drive as a TiVo drive.

At least it couldn't a few weeks ago when I tried it just for the heck of it.

Try it with the MFS Live cd and see if it'll create a partition larger than 1.2TB.


----------



## dianebrat

So I have a lot of options available, but which would be easiest in the long run?
I can let my 250GB update to 11.0k, back it up, then restore it to the 2TB but not expand, make sure it's happy, then pull it out and do an expand.
I could take my 648 TBK, (older than 11.0k) put it on the 2TB, let it update to 11.0k, then pull it and expand it.

I'm option to options since I have some time to plan this.


----------



## unitron

dianebrat said:


> So I have a lot of options available, but which would be easiest in the long run?
> I can let my 250GB update to 11.0k, back it up, then restore it to the 2TB but not expand, make sure it's happy, then pull it out and do an expand.
> I could take my 648 TBK, (older than 11.0k) put it on the 2TB, let it update to 11.0k, then pull it and expand it.
> 
> I'm option to options since I have some time to plan this.


What are you running in that 648 right now?


----------



## dianebrat

unitron said:


> What are you running in that 648 right now?


2x 1.0TB drives, as far as I know that means I'm SOL because they're striped and I don't want to divorce them in case I have to go back because the 2TB doesn't work out.

I really like the idea of backing up the data, pulling them as a pair, doing all my testing on the new 2TB and if it fails I can go back to the existing drives full of content.


----------



## unitron

dianebrat said:


> 2x 1.0TB drives, as far as I know that means I'm SOL because they're striped and I don't want to divorce them in case I have to go back because the 2TB doesn't work out.
> 
> I really like the idea of backing up the data, pulling them as a pair, doing all my testing on the new 2TB and if it fails I can go back to the existing drives full of content.


An experiment you could try is hooking up both drives to a PC (you might need an eSATA to SATA adapter) and seeing if WinMFS can make a truncated backup, which wouldn't have your recordings, but would have all your settings, season passes, thumb ratings, etc.

Another interesting experiment would be to hook up both drives and a single 2TB and see if it will let you select both current drives as the A and B of the source and the 2TB as the target.


----------



## dianebrat

unitron said:


> An experiment you could try is hooking up both drives to a PC (you might need an eSATA to SATA adapter) and seeing if WinMFS can make a truncated backup, which wouldn't have your recordings, but would have all your settings, season passes, thumb ratings, etc.
> 
> *Another interesting experiment would be to hook up both drives and a single 2TB and see if it will let you select both current drives as the A and B of the source and the 2TB as the target*.


I can do that..I thought it wasn't possible in the S3 with WinMFS but it's win/win since I lose no data and I have enough SATA ports in the test bed to do it.


----------



## unitron

dianebrat said:


> I can do that..I thought it wasn't possible in the S3 with WinMFS but it's win/win since I lose no data and I have enough SATA ports in the test bed to do it.


As far as I know WinMFS will treat the source drive(s) as read-only, and I certainly would expect spike to have taken care that it be so, but not having created it, I can't absolutely guarantee it.

But if you try it, hurry back and tell us what happened.


----------



## dianebrat

unitron said:


> As far as I know WinMFS will treat the source drive(s) as read-only, and I certainly would expect spike to have taken care that it be so, but not having created it, I can't absolutely guarantee it.
> 
> But if you try it, hurry back and tell us what happened.


LOL.. I'm just lining my ducks up in a row this week, I'm at least a week away from giving anything a try.


----------



## Teeps

dianebrat said:


> 2x 1.0TB drives, as far as I know that means I'm SOL because they're striped and I don't want to divorce them in case I have to go back because the 2TB doesn't work out.
> 
> I really like the idea of backing up the data, pulling them as a pair, doing all my testing on the new 2TB and if it fails I can go back to the existing drives full of content.


Combining the data from 2 drives to a single larger drive is possible. As, Dvr_dude offered such a service a couple of years ago, when I inquired for my 648250B.
Unfortunately I do not know how he is moving the data.


----------



## dianebrat

dianebrat said:


> 2x 1.0TB drives, as far as I know that means I'm SOL because they're striped and I don't want to divorce them in case I have to go back because the 2TB doesn't work out.
> 
> I really like the idea of backing up the data, pulling them as a pair, doing all my testing on the new 2TB and if it fails I can go back to the existing drives full of content.





unitron said:


> Another interesting experiment would be to hook up both drives and a single 2TB and see if it will let you select both current drives as the A and B of the source and the 2TB as the target.





dianebrat said:


> I can do that..I thought it wasn't possible in the S3 with WinMFS but it's win/win since I lose no data and I have enough SATA ports in the test bed to do it.


As I thought, WinMFS says it can't combine A and B to a new drive, says "not supported at this time"


----------



## dianebrat

Ok, I let my original 250GB update to 11.0k, 
I used WinMFS and let it copy then expand, it said "hey you're going to make a partition bigger than 1TB, are you sure?" and unlike previous times I said "yes make a bigger than 1TB partition" was that the right thing to have done? 

I'm not 100% sure the machine is healthy since I'm not paring the CC's in this interim scenario. It shows 2512SD or 288HD hours, that sounds right? but it doesn't want to copy anything via the network at the moment.


----------



## unitron

dianebrat said:


> Ok, I let my original 250GB update to 11.0k,
> I used WinMFS and let it copy then expand, it said "hey you're going to make a partition bigger than 1TB, are you sure?" and unlike previous times I said "yes make a bigger than 1TB partition" was that the right thing to have done?
> 
> I'm not 100% sure the machine is healthy since I'm not paring the CC's in this interim scenario. It shows 2512SD or 288HD hours, that sounds right? but it doesn't want to copy anything via the network at the moment.


I've got a 648 with a WD20EURS and a 15th MFS Media partition that's 1.6TB in size.

And a 1GB swap partition.

I never bothered with supersizing.

It sayeth Variable, up to 287 HD hours, or 2511 SD hours

It's on analog cable and no antenna hooked up, if that matters to the numbers, although I suspect not.


----------



## dianebrat

unitron said:


> I've got a 648 with a WD20EURS and a 15th MFS Media partition that's 1.6TB in size.
> And a 1GB swap partition.
> I never bothered with supersizing.
> It sayeth Variable, up to 287 HD hours, or 2511 SD hours
> It's on analog cable and no antenna hooked up, if that matters to the numbers, although I suspect not.


Sounds like mine is on the money, I didn't do anything special as far as swap file, should I have? it's not a big deal since this was a test, I still have to offload the existing shows from the 2x 1.0TB setup before making the move. It almost sounds like I know what I'm doing


----------



## unitron

dianebrat said:


> Sounds like mine is on the money, I didn't do anything special as far as swap file, should I have? it's not a big deal since this was a test, I still have to offload the existing shows from the 2x 1.0TB setup before making the move. It almost sounds like I know what I'm doing


Yeah, I almost know what I'm doing to.

The swap thing is just something I choose to do. Back in the breaking the 137GB barrier days of patched kernel S1s, it was considered necessary to go bigger than stock, in the event a GSOD had to be fixed, with a rule of thumb of 1MB for every 2GB of hard drive.

It probably isn't necessary on newer embiggened TiVos, but I've never heard of it hurting anything, and at 15 minutes of video on a 2TB drive, I figure it's cheap insurance.

But plenty of people have used jmfs to take a 320GB Premiere up to 2TB without changing the swap size, and I haven't heard of any of them having problems conclusively linked to insufficient swap size, so...

Yer pays yer money, and yer takes yer cherce.


----------



## dianebrat

unitron said:


> I've got a 648 with a WD20EURS and a 15th MFS Media partition that's 1.6TB in size.
> And a 1GB swap partition.
> I never bothered with supersizing.
> It sayeth Variable, up to 287 HD hours, or 2511 SD hours
> It's on analog cable and no antenna hooked up, if that matters to the numbers, although I suspect not.


I just put everything back the way it was, an S3 with 2x 1.0TB drives shows 318 HD / 2777 SD hours, same as the Weaknees upgrade drive, there's a chunk of space missing with the 2TB drive, almost 10%, that may be enough to have me scuttle this project.


----------



## unitron

dianebrat said:


> I just put everything back the way it was, an S3 with 2x 1.0TB drives shows 318 HD / 2777 SD hours, same as the Weaknees upgrade drive, there's a chunk of space missing with the 2TB drive, almost 10%, that may be enough to have me scuttle this project.


Did you supersize that 2TB?


----------



## dianebrat

unitron said:


> Did you supersize that 2TB?


No, should I? (it's no big deal to do tomorrow with coffee)


----------



## jmbach

dianebrat said:


> No, should I? (it's no big deal to do tomorrow with coffee)


Yes, the space you are missing is from not supersizing the drive. Those look like the numbers of my 648 after expanding and before supersizing (287). Can't remember at this time the exact details but supersizing adds video time by reducing the space of something else. Unless someone else pipes in first, I'll look it up and get back to you on what that something else is.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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## ThAbtO

dianebrat said:


> No, should I? (it's no big deal to do tomorrow with coffee)


Wonder what Tivo is like with coffee.


----------



## unitron

ThAbtO said:


> Wonder what Tivo is like with coffee.


Positively electrifying.


----------



## reubanks

unitron said:


> Positively electrifying.


I'm SHOCKED that you would say that!


----------



## ThAbtO

unitron said:


> Positively electrifying.


The caffeine is most exhilarating. 

Wouldn't a caffeinated Tivo drive itself to drink?


----------



## dianebrat

ThAbtO said:


> Wonder what Tivo is like with coffee.


 Coffee makes EVERYTHING better (except sleep that is)


----------



## dlfl

ThAbtO said:


> Wonder what Tivo is like with coffee.


Depends on whether you pour the coffee on the TiVo or into your mouth.


----------



## dianebrat

unitron said:


> Did you supersize that 2TB?





dianebrat said:


> No, should I? (it's no big deal to do tomorrow with coffee)





jmbach said:


> Yes, the space you are missing is from not supersizing the drive. Those look like the numbers of my 648 after expanding and before supersizing (287). Can't remember at this time the exact details but supersizing adds video time by reducing the space of something else. Unless someone else pipes in first, I'll look it up and get back to you on what that something else is.


YES! :up:
I supersized it, booted up, and it's now 318/2777, perfect numbers.

I just need to finish off loading the existing programs this week then I can swap over and start using the single drive setup.


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## jmbach

Supersizing takes away from tivo video clip storage (advertising) space and gives it to your recording space. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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## Teeps

jmbach said:


> Supersizing takes away from tivo video clip storage (advertising) space and gives it to your recording space.


Interesting; I wondered why half the time there is no advertisement banner on the TiVo Central screen.

A side note:
What is the point of this?: Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
Do you get paid to advertise?


----------



## jmbach

Teeps said:


> A side note:
> What is the point of this?: Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
> Do you get paid to advertise?


Nope. Just too lazy to change the default signature.


----------



## John Wilson

I have a question regarding an external drive. It is a WD 500GB drive in an Antec MX-1 enclosure. The fan in the enclosure is near death and is making a racket. I'm not quite ready to upgrade the internal drive (post to follow soon) so I'd like to put the 500GB in a new enclosure and replug to the OLED S3 TiVo. Questions:

1. Can I just put the drive into a new eSATA enclosure and connect to the TiVo or will the new S/W in the TiVo prevent this from happening? I was able to use the Antec as its old and back then you could make the TiVo see the generic drive and enclosure.

2. What enclosure would others suggest to replace the over-priced Antec MX-1? I need one that is reliable and quiet. 

Thanks for your help. This fan is driving me nuts.


----------



## unitron

John Wilson said:


> I have a question regarding an external drive. It is a WD 500GB drive in an Antec MX-1 enclosure. The fan in the enclosure is near death and is making a racket. I'm not quite ready to upgrade the internal drive (post to follow soon) so I'd like to put the 500GB in a new enclosure and replug to the OLED S3 TiVo. Questions:
> 
> 1. Can I just put the drive into a new eSATA enclosure and connect to the TiVo or will the new S/W in the TiVo prevent this from happening? I was able to use the Antec as its old and back then you could make the TiVo see the generic drive and enclosure.
> 
> 2. What enclosure would others suggest to replace the over-priced Antec MX-1? I need one that is reliable and quiet.
> 
> Thanks for your help. This fan is driving me nuts.


Got any sewing machine oil or 3 in 1?

Got any light grease?

You could re-lubricate it with a mixture of those 2.

Or if you'll post the brand and model number of the fan itself--should be on the label--I might be able to Google-Fu up enough about it to find a drop-in replacement somewhere that you could order.


----------



## dianebrat

John Wilson said:


> I have a question regarding an external drive. It is a WD 500GB drive in an Antec MX-1 enclosure. The fan in the enclosure is near death and is making a racket. I'm not quite ready to upgrade the internal drive (post to follow soon) so I'd like to put the 500GB in a new enclosure and replug to the OLED S3 TiVo. Questions:
> 
> 1. Can I just put the drive into a new eSATA enclosure and connect to the TiVo or will the new S/W in the TiVo prevent this from happening? I was able to use the Antec as its old and back then you could make the TiVo see the generic drive and enclosure.
> 
> 2. What enclosure would others suggest to replace the over-priced Antec MX-1? I need one that is reliable and quiet.
> 
> Thanks for your help. This fan is driving me nuts.


Call/email Antec, they're VERY good about sending replacements out, the MX-1 is still the best out there, last time I emailed them and said I had bought a 2nd case because it was on sale and now after 3 years both fans were dying, they sent me 2 fan assemblies at n/c.

And the Tivo doesn't care what case the drive is in, it only cares that it's the same drive it knows from before.


----------



## dianebrat

unitron said:


> Or if you'll post the brand and model number of the fan itself--should be on the label--I might be able to Google-Fu up enough about it to find a drop-in replacement somewhere that you could order.


The MX-1 fan assembly is unique, it's not replaceable in that manner, but Antec is very good at sending out replacements.


----------



## John Wilson

While I appreciate the response to my last post about my MX-1 enclosure issue, it made me think that its probably worth looking at getting rid of the external drive. I have a 648 with the original 250GB drive plus the Antec external with a 500GB. I am running 11.0K version of the software. I managed to get my hands on a WD WD20EURS and I have a PC with a free SATA port and WinMFS installed. Based on what I've read *recently* I should be able to go from my original 250GB drive to the 2TB drive using just WinMFS. If that is an accurate statement then this is what I plan to do:

- Power down the TiVo then the external drive.

- Power up the TiVo alone and divorce the external drive. I know I will lose my recordings but that is the downside of the striping procedure TiVo uses with an external drive. Does the Divorce really work?

- Power down the TiVo, pull the 250GB and make a truncated backup using WinMFS. Does this save Season Passes and CC pairings?

- swap the 250GB with the 2TB drive on the PC and do a Restore with a swap size of 512mb

- answer YES to the question about expanding

- Select Tools-> MfsSuperSize -> On

- install 2TB drive and power up

What steps am I missing or have stated incorrectly? My head is spinning with all of the options and discoveries. I'd like to avoid jfms if possible but I'd like to have a 2TB drive in the unit as its my main recording device.

Please let me know if you think this will work. If not, what procedure do you suggest?


----------



## unitron

John Wilson said:


> While I appreciate the response to my last post about my MX-1 enclosure issue, it made me think that its probably worth looking at getting rid of the external drive. I have a 648 with the original 250GB drive plus the Antec external with a 500GB. I am running 11.0K version of the software. I managed to get my hands on a WD WD20EURS and I have a PC with a free SATA port and WinMFS installed. Based on what I've read *recently* I should be able to go from my original 250GB drive to the 2TB drive using just WinMFS. If that is an accurate statement then this is what I plan to do:
> 
> - Power down the TiVo then the external drive.
> 
> - Power up the TiVo alone and divorce the external drive. I know I will lose my recordings but that is the downside of the striping procedure TiVo uses with an external drive. Does the Divorce really work?
> 
> - Power down the TiVo, pull the 250GB and make a truncated backup using WinMFS. Does this save Season Passes and CC pairings?
> 
> - swap the 250GB with the 2TB drive on the PC and do a Restore with a swap size of 512mb
> 
> - answer YES to the question about expanding
> 
> - Select Tools-> MfsSuperSize -> On
> 
> - install 2TB drive and power up
> 
> What steps am I missing or have stated incorrectly? My head is spinning with all of the options and discoveries. I'd like to avoid jfms if possible but I'd like to have a 2TB drive in the unit as its my main recording device.
> 
> Please let me know if you think this will work. If not, what procedure do you suggest?


First, go to the WD website, put in that 2TB's model number and search and look to your left where it says downloads for the diagnostic software for that model (which is probably the same for all of their current models), then run the long test on that 2TB before putting into service.

A WinMFS truncated back up of your drive should retain all settings, cable card pairings, etc.

I'd use a swap size of 1024MB, but that may just be me being overly cautious.

While you have the TiVo open check the power supply capacitors.

Actually, it wouldn't hurt to just go ahead and replace the ones on the +5V and +12V line just on GP.

Restore to the 2TB, and expand and tell it it's okay to go over 1TB or 1.2TB or whatever figure it is that it'll throw at you.

Then supersize if you wish.

Remember to always know where both ends of the TiVo's power cable are at all times.

You can copy off whatever shows aren't copy protected with TiVo Desktop before divorcing and restore them from the PC after the drive change.

Just remember to edit Desktop's curl.conf file because of the out of date cookie problem.

And then you can send me the MX-1 and the 500 to play with.


----------



## dianebrat

unitron said:


> A WinMFS truncated back up of your drive should retain all settings, cable card pairings, etc.
> 
> I'd use a swap size of 1024MB, but that may just be me being overly cautious.


dumb question, I keep seeing that mentioned, and I have no problem redoing mine, but I didn't see a place in WinMFS for that and if I just missed it, what's the box say and what numerical value should I use?


----------



## unitron

dianebrat said:


> dumb question, I keep seeing that mentioned, and I have no problem redoing mine, but I didn't see a place in WinMFS for that and if I just missed it, what's the box say and what numerical value should I use?


There's a grey box that pops up during restore that gives you a place to check if you want to NOT use the "optimized" partition layout that was introduced in the Series 2s* and also gives you a box with 64 or 128 or whatever MB already filled in for the swap partition size (depending on whatever size that model came with from the factory), but you can change the number in the box.

*The "optimized layout keeps the same partitions "numbered" the same, but places the 2nd MFS Media partition right after the Apple Partition Map which is the first partition, so that the OS partitions are in the middle and the 1st and 2nd Media partitions are on one end or the other of the drive, supposedly so that it can get from the OS part to either Media partition faster by only swinging the arm across half of the drive from the middle instead of from near the front all the way to the end.

Of course if you're going onto a bigger (especially a really bigger, like 2TB) drive, and expanding by adding a 3rd MFS pair, then that sort of defeats the purpose somewhat, but I figure do it which ever way it came from the factory so as to change what it's designed for as little as possible, so only on a Series 1 would you select the "non-optimized" layout.

A few years back I upped an S2 DT from the stock 80GB to a 500GB, but for some reason went with the S1 type layout.

The TiVo worked fine (except for my mom filling it up too fast), but I could not make a truncated backup of it no matter what I tried, MFS Live or WinMFS.

And of course when I made a backup of the 80 before copying to the 500 originally I didn't test the backup like I should have, so naturally it didn't work either when I needed it.


----------



## John Wilson

unitron said:


> You can copy off whatever shows aren't copy protected with TiVo Desktop before divorcing and restore them from the PC after the drive change.
> 
> Just remember to edit Desktop's curl.conf file because of the out of date cookie problem.


Thank you for your response. I forgot about running the new drive through its paces before putting all the time and effort to get it "TiVo ready". I do have a copy of the free TiVo Desktop and was planning to offload some programs to that and some to another S3 HD box. I'm confused by the curl.conf statement relating to cookies. Could you elaborate on that issue or direct me to a thread that deals with it? How would one edit that file?



unitron said:


> And then you can send me the MX-1 and the 500 to play with.


Its tempting but if I get some love from Antec I have plenty of places to use that combination.  Sorry.


----------



## unitron

John Wilson said:


> Thank you for your response. I forgot about running the new drive through its paces before putting all the time and effort to get it "TiVo ready". I do have a copy of the free TiVo Desktop and was planning to offload some programs to that and some to another S3 HD box. I'm confused by the curl.conf statement relating to cookies. Could you elaborate on that issue or direct me to a thread that deals with it?


At last count I think there were too many to count, but

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=501069

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=501067



John Wilson said:


> How would one edit that file?


Somewhere in all of that, morac explains it all.

(Hat tip to notting, though, for figuring out where the problem was in the first place)



John Wilson said:


> Its tempting but if I get some love from Antec I have plenty of places to use that combination.  Sorry.


Well, shucky darn.


----------



## dianebrat

unitron said:


> There's a grey box that pops up during restore that gives you a place to check if you want to NOT use the "optimized" partition layout that was introduced in the Series 2s* and also gives you a box with 64 or 128 or whatever MB already filled in for the swap partition size (depending on whatever size that model came with from the factory), but you can change the number in the box.


TYVM!
I've gone by that box multiple times and never thought about it.
I restored to the 2TB, updated the swap file to 1024MB and then expanded and supersized, I should be all set to drop it in after I finish coping all the items I want off it and onto the server.


----------



## S3-2501

I've got a WD20EURS on the way for an emergency drive replacement for a 648 series 3, and just want to make sure my understanding of the current upgrade discussion about the 648 model is correct before the new drive arrives. 

I have a WinMFS backup sourced from a 648 version k 1TB drive, not from an original 250GB drive.

Can I do the following to fully prep the new WD20EURS for the installation in the 648?

1. Restore my version k WinMFS backup of the 1TB drive to the WD20EURS (with optimized format and 1024MB swap size)
2. Let it expand when prompted
3. Supersize
4. Install drive in the Tivo and have access to all 318HD HRS

Or am I missing something here?


----------



## unitron

S3-2501 said:


> I've got a WD20EURS on the way for an emergency drive replacement for a 648 series 3, and just want to make sure my understanding of the current upgrade discussion about the 648 model is correct before the new drive arrives.
> 
> I have a WinMFS backup sourced from a 648 version k 1TB drive, not from an original 250GB drive.
> 
> Can I do the following to fully prep the new WD20EURS for the installation in the 648?
> 
> 1. Restore my version k WinMFS backup of the 1TB drive to the WD20EURS (with optimized format and 1024MB swap size)
> 2. Let it expand when prompted
> 3. Supersize
> 4. Install drive in the Tivo and have access to all 318HD HRS
> 
> Or am I missing something here?


It may not offer you the option on the optimized partition layout, it may just do it the way the S3s come from the factory (which is "with", as has been the case since the first S2).

It might be only when doing mfscopy (from another drive) rather than restore (from a .tbk file) that it offers that.

So, you run WD's long test on the WD20EURS before you put it into service (while you carefully examine the power supply for bad capacitors), then you connect it to a PC with a motherboard that's not a GigaByte* brand, then you boot into Windows and start WinMFS.

Then you click select drive, make sure you select the EURS, click on restore, point it towards the correct .tbk file, specify the swap size, click start and wait until it says that it's finished.

At that point there will be 250GB worth of 13 partitions on there and a 14th really big Apple Free, but you won't see that unless you say no when it says you have extra space and asks if you want to use it.

If you say yes, it'll then say something about do you want to limit the partition size to 1.2TB or something about that size. Choose whichever option says do not limit the size.

After it does that you'll have a 3rd MFS pair where the Apple Free partition was, filling the drive.

Supersize and enjoy.

*If it is a GigaByte board we can work around the dangers.


----------



## S3-2501

Wow, thanks for the fast reply Unitron! My main concern was that the backup source having been 1TB might for some reason cause partition issues during the restore/expand. 

I was planing on doing the restore/expand via USB, the same way I made the backup. Is there some reason it needs to be by done by direct MB connection?

If all goes well, the drive will be here Tuesday. Once everythng's up and running, I'll be sure to post a follow up!


----------



## unitron

S3-2501 said:


> Wow, thanks for the fast reply Unitron! My main concern was that the backup source having been 1TB might for some reason cause partition issues during the restore/expand.
> 
> I was planing on doing the restore/expand via USB, the same way I made the backup. Is there some reason it needs to be by done by direct MB connection?
> 
> If all goes well, the drive will be here Tuesday. Once everythng's up and running, I'll be sure to post a follow up!


WinMFS will, or at least should, work via USB.

I've never done the long test via USB, so I can't guarantee it's doable that way, but you can find out.


----------



## John Wilson

I just completed my upgrade from the original 250GB internal plus a 500GB external to a new WD20EURS using WinMFS only. Like Unitron suggested, I ran the long WD diagnostic first to help ensure I was starting out with a good drive. I then proceeded like was suggested in my last post. I'll show what my partition tables looked like both before and after the expansion.

*Before:*

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected]  ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)

Total SA SD Hours: 259	Total DTV SD Hours: 226 96 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-648	Tivo Model: TCD648250B

*After:*

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 1.0G)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.6T)

Total SA SD Hours: 2082	Total DTV SD Hours: 1817	100 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-648	Tivo Model: TCD648250B

As you can see, the number of partitions increased by 2 and the last one now has a size of about 1.6TB. I set the swap size to 1024MB as suggested. I don't anticipate any issues as others have not had any to my best recollection.

Good luck with your upgrade. Do look at the caps. I had previously had mine replaced so I was good to go.


----------



## unitron

John Wilson said:


> I just completed my upgrade from the original 250GB internal plus a 500GB external to a new WD20EURS using WinMFS only. Like Unitron suggested, I ran the long WD diagnostic first to help ensure I was starting out with a good drive. I then proceeded like was suggested in my last post. I'll show what my partition tables looked like both before and after the expansion.
> 
> *Before:*
> 
> Partition Maps
> #: type name length base ( size )
> 1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
> 2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 4 Ext2 Root 1 524[email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
> 9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
> 12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)
> 
> Total SA SD Hours: 259	Total DTV SD Hours: 226 96 % Free
> Software: 11.0k-01-2-648	Tivo Model: TCD648250B
> 
> *After:*
> 
> Partition Maps
> #: type name length base ( size )
> 1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
> 2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 1.0G)
> 9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
> 12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)
> 14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
> 15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.6T)
> 
> Total SA SD Hours: 2082	Total DTV SD Hours: 1817	100 % Free
> Software: 11.0k-01-2-648	Tivo Model: TCD648250B
> 
> As you can see, the number of partitions increased by 2 and the last one now has a size of about 1.6TB. I set the swap size to 1024MB as suggested. I don't anticipate any issues as others have not had any to my best recollection.
> 
> Good luck with your upgrade. Do look at the caps. I had previously had mine replaced so I was good to go.


Did you have to divorce the external and lose all recordings first?


----------



## John Wilson

Yes, I did the divorce and lost the recordings. Fortunately, I copied the ones I wanted to save to both my computer and another TiVo. Unitron, thanks for the heads up about the curl.conf issue on the TiVo Desktop. It saved me ALOT of time and headache.


----------



## S3-2501

My WD20EURS just arrived, and I'm currently running the Western Digital Lifeguard Diagnostics Extended test via eSATA connecton in Windows.

Before starting the test I dd the restore, and the steps did not go as expected.

First, I selected the 1TB backup file and restored it wth a 1024MB swap. It asked me if I wanted to expand, and I said yes. At this point it said it was done, but when I clicked the close button I got the message "are you sure you want to cancel and close?" I first said no, but then when nothing happened clicked close again and then answered yes.

At this point, the drive's partitions looked like this:
tition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 1.0G)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)
14 Apple_Free Extra [email protected] ( 1.6T)

So I clicked on MFSADD and was asked if I wanted to limit it to 1TB. I said no.

That updated the partitions to:

#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 1.0G)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.6T)

Total SA SD Hours: 2082	Total DTV SD Hours: 1817 90 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-648	Tivo Model: TCD648250B

At which point I did supersize. Not sure why the extra MFSADD step was needed, but apparently it was.

It looks like the extended test will take over 5 hours, so it's going to be a while till I post back with how it's working. Note I used WinMFS 9.3f, in case that matters


----------



## unitron

S3-2501 said:


> My WD20EURS just arrived, and I'm currently running the Western Digital Lifeguard Diagnostics Extended test via eSATA connecton in Windows.
> 
> Before starting the test I dd the restore, and the steps did not go as expected.
> 
> First, I selected the 1TB backup file and restored it wth a 1024MB swap. It asked me if I wanted to expand, and I said yes. At this point it said it was done, but when I clicked the close button I got the message "are you sure you want to cancel and close?" I first said no, but then when nothing happened clicked close again and then answered yes.
> 
> At this point, the drive's partitions looked like this:
> tition Maps
> #: type name length base ( size )
> 1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
> 2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 4 Ext2 Root 1  [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 1.0G)
> 9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
> 12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)
> 14 Apple_Free Extra [email protected] ( 1.6T)
> 
> So I clicked on MFSADD and was asked if I wanted to limit it to 1TB. I said no.
> 
> That updated the partitions to:
> 
> #: type name length base ( size )
> 1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
> 2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 1.0G)
> 9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
> 12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)
> 14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
> 15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.6T)
> 
> Total SA SD Hours: 2082	Total DTV SD Hours: 1817 90 % Free
> Software: 11.0k-01-2-648	Tivo Model: TCD648250B
> 
> At which point I did supersize. Not sure why the extra MFSADD step was needed, but apparently it was.
> 
> It looks like the extended test will take over 5 hours, so it's going to be a while till I post back with how it's working. Note I used WinMFS 9.3f, in case that matters


Are you saying that you put the image on the EURS _before_ you ran the long test on it?


----------



## S3-2501

unitron said:


> Are you saying that you put the image on the EURS _before_ you ran the long test on it?


 Yes. The test is humming along now, with 4H 39M to go. This way when it's done (assuming it passes the test) I can pop it right in and see how it works. I know this extended test works with an imaged drive since it confirmed the Tivo imaged drive I'm replacing had bad/unreparable sectors, also validating the Tivo's kickstart 54 extended test failure.


----------



## jmbach

This is how my WinMFS behaved. Have been running my S3 going on 4 months now.


----------



## S3-2501

Well, after 6.5 hours the drive passed the extended test. I put it in the Tivo and it's green screened. I'll report back if it works itself out....


----------



## unitron

S3-2501 said:


> Well, after 6.5 hours the drive passed the extended test. I put it in the Tivo and it's green screened. I'll report back if it works itself out....


If the backup image came from a 648 (you did say 648, right?) other than the one you put the drive in, it's going to have to work that out.


----------



## S3-2501

unitron said:


> If the backup image came from a 648 (you did say 648, right?) other than the one you put the drive in, it's going to have to work that out.


 Yeah, the image is from a different 648. So if I let it sit it should work itself out then?

Edit: It just booted up and I've initiated a clear and delete everything to start fresh...


----------



## unitron

S3-2501 said:


> Yeah, the image is from a different 648. So if I let it sit it should work itself out then?


You might have to restart it a time or three. It'll tell you if it wants you to.


----------



## S3-2501

Just finished the guided setup and the drive reports all 318Hrs, so looks like it's all good!


----------



## herrjavier

Sorry if this has been asking before, but I'm gonna upgrade my series 3 HD for first time. I'm thinking to use a Mediasonic HF2-SU3S2 ProBox 4 bay hard drive enclosure, it has eSATA, with the winMFS in order to upgrade the hard drive.

Should it work?

Thanks for help


----------



## unitron

herrjavier said:


> Sorry if this has been asking before, but I'm gonna upgrade my series 3 HD for first time. I'm thinking to use a Mediasonic HF2-SU3S2 ProBox 4 bay hard drive enclosure, it has eSATA, with the winMFS in order to upgrade the hard drive.
> 
> Should it work?
> 
> Thanks for help


You're going to use the Mediasonic to connect the hard drives to the PC to do the copy and expand?

The Mediasonic is not going to be connected to the TiVo itself?

If it allows the PC to see both drives as separate drives I don't see why it won't work.


----------



## ThAbtO

I used this for my last Tivo restoration and it works well. Its all SATA dock.


----------



## herrjavier

Yes, the idea is to put both drives in the enclosure, the old 160gb drive and the new 1tb and use the winMFS to clone and expand... I was asking because I have been reading this post for a while and haven't seen anybody using an enclosure to do it, and I thought maybe there is a reason why 
But as you said if the pc see them as a separate drives should be possible, let's try.

Thanks


----------



## Moosifer

Now, I think I'm reading the instructions right on the mfslive.org site, but, just wanted to see if anyone had any input here.

I have the original HD and the 1GB extender for this. I figure it may be time to upgrade the internal drive as it's probably going to be on it's last legs sooner rather than later. Looking to go 2GB internal drive and getting rid of the external extender.

As I understand it I can clone them both to a single drive using this tool. Is that correct? Has anyone done it? Am I smoking crack?

Thanks for any advice you can give. If you need more information please feel free to ask and I will do my best to get that for you.

Moose


----------



## ThAbtO

Moosifer said:


> Now, I think I'm reading the instructions right on the mfslive.org site, but, just wanted to see if anyone had any input here.
> 
> I have the original HD and the 1GB extender for this. I figure it may be time to upgrade the internal drive as it's probably going to be on it's last legs sooner rather than later. Looking to go 2GB internal drive and getting rid of the external extender.
> 
> As I understand it I can clone them both to a single drive using this tool. Is that correct? Has anyone done it? Am I smoking crack?
> 
> Thanks for any advice you can give. If you need more information please feel free to ask and I will do my best to get that for you.
> 
> Moose


To start off, you would need to remove the extended drive (AKA divorce the drive) and let it boot up first without it.

Next, make sure its on the 11.0k software version (I'm sure it is as you are running the Tivo currently, but making sure).

I would not recommend the MFS Live boot CD because you have to type Linux type commands and if you typo, or get the wrong drive identifications, it could mess up the Tivo drive.

I would recommend using WinMFS (windows only, and no typing long lines) and you can copy directly to a 2tb drive from the original (Don't forget to make a backup of the original as well.) Truncated backup is fine if you do not want to preserve recordings.

If you are using Western Digital drives, you may need to use WDidle3.exe and disable or extend the auto-parking feature. Tivo cannot use it and sometimes it can interfere with bootups and restarts.


----------



## unitron

Moosifer said:


> Now, I think I'm reading the instructions right on the mfslive.org site, but, just wanted to see if anyone had any input here.
> 
> I have the original HD and the 1GB extender for this. I figure it may be time to upgrade the internal drive as it's probably going to be on it's last legs sooner rather than later. Looking to go 2GB internal drive and getting rid of the external extender.
> 
> As I understand it I can clone them both to a single drive using this tool. Is that correct? Has anyone done it? Am I smoking crack?
> 
> Thanks for any advice you can give. If you need more information please feel free to ask and I will do my best to get that for you.
> 
> Moose


You might have been able to do that with a 2 internal drive Series 1 or Series 2 setup, but apparently neither MFS Live nor WinMFS can "unstripe" shows from an internal/external S3 platform setup into single intact files on a single internal drive, even if there's plenty of space.

Copy them to PC if you can, otherwise watch them and wave bye bye (or dump via real-time analog to VCR or DVD or whatever).


----------



## ThAbtO

unitron said:


> You might have been able to do that with a 2 internal drive Series 1 or Series 2 setup, but apparently neither MFS Live nor WinMFS can "unstripe" shows from an internal/external S3 platform setup into single intact files on a single internal drive, even if there's plenty of space.
> 
> Copy them to PC if you can, otherwise watch them and wave bye bye (or dump via real-time analog to VCR or DVD or whatever).


I think I beat you to the punch as I see my post time is the same as yours but only by a few seconds.


----------



## unitron

ThAbtO said:


> I think I beat you to the punch as I see my post time is the same as yours but only by a few seconds.


Well, we were covering slightly different ground, or covering it from a different angle, anyway, so it's all good (unless you're the one trying to recover shows from an internal/external setup).


----------



## Teeps

Moosifer said:


> As I understand it I can clone them both to a single drive using this tool. Is that correct? Has anyone done it?


This can be done according to the guy I bought my 2TB plug&play drive from.

He charged extra (if I recall about $80) for this service and it required about 10 days turn around time.
Between the $$$$ I did not have (at the time) and the turn around time; I did not get the data transfer done.

You could try contacting the guy and ask if he would transfer the data from your 2 drives to your new larger drive.


----------



## dlfl

Teeps said:


> This can be done according to the guy I bought my 2TB plug&play drive from.
> 
> He charged extra (if I recall about $80) for this service and it required about 10 days turn around time.
> Between the $$$$ I did not have (at the time) and the turn around time; I did not get the data transfer done.
> 
> You could try contacting the guy and ask if he would transfer the data from your 2 drives to your new larger drive.


Is there a reason you're not giving contact info for this guy? Or should we just Google "the guy who sold Teeps a 2TB drive"?


----------



## Teeps

dlfl said:


> Is there a reason you're not giving contact info for this guy? Or should we just Google "the guy who sold Teeps a 2TB drive"?


I wanted someone, like you, to ask, that way it doesn't look like I'm advertising for him.

Dvr_Dude google that...

Note: I am not affiliated with Dvr_Dude; just a satisfied user of a 2TB HDD upgrade.


----------



## sathead

Successfully installed a 2TB EARS drive (pulled from my FreeNAS system) into my TiVo-HD last weekend.

- Used WDIdle3 to stop the head parking
- Had to copy my existing 500GB TiVo drive (with no saved programs) to the new drive using the MFS-Live boot CD because WinMFS kept crashing as soon as I identified the new target drive
- Then "Expanded" and "Supersized" it from Windows7 using WinMFS
Now the info screen shows almost 300hrs of HD recording time available 

Thanks for all the good info in this thread!


----------



## lpwcomp

sathead said:


> Successfully installed a 2TB EARS drive (pulled from my FreeNAS system) into my TiVo-HD last weekend.
> 
> - Used WDIdle3 to stop the head parking
> - Had to copy my existing 500GB TiVo drive (with no saved programs) to the new drive using the MFS-Live boot CD because WinMFS kept crashing as soon as I identified the new target drive
> - Then "Expanded" and "Supersized" it from Windows7 using WinMFS
> Now the info screen shows almost 300hrs of HD recording time available
> 
> Thanks for all the good info in this thread!


A successfully expanded and supersized 2TB drive should show @317-318 hours of HD recording time.


----------



## sathead

lpwcomp said:


> A successfully expanded and supersized 2TB drive should show @317-318 hours of HD recording time.


Yeah- I was at work when I posted- just checked- it shows 318hrs HD or 2777 SD hrs.


----------



## rainbow

I posted this on a different thread - thought I was posting it here.

newegg has a special right now for WD2TEURS - w/promo code EMCXTVP35 addtl $15 off, so it comes to 94.99. good until 1APR

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136783


----------



## rija17876

I installed an internal 2TB expansion drive, currently at 82% full. Is there a > 2TB solution out there internal or external?

Thanks.


----------



## jmbach

Yes and no. If you expanded a smaller drive to a 2TB drive using the current software available then no. Supposedly from one of the vendors of tivo aftermarket items has an ability to do a 2TB internal plus a 2TB external drive but it has to be done at time of purchase. If you have a native 2TB XL4 you can currently add a 1TB WD expander.


----------



## unitron

rija17876 said:


> I installed an internal 2TB expansion drive, currently at 82% full. Is there a > 2TB solution out there internal or external?
> 
> Thanks.


Allow me to suggest that you copy some of those shows to a PC (the ones your cable company hasn't set the anti-copy bit on) and then copy them back when you're actually ready to watch them.

If you have more than one TiVo in the house, this will also allow sharing with much less loss of meta-data (like the date the show was recorded originally, as opposed to the date it got copied TiVo to TiVo, as well as some of the stuff that comes up when you hit the Info button).

Hooking an extra drive straight to the TiVo means that if either the internal or external develops problems you lose the shows on both drives.


----------



## John Wilson

I'm planning to upgrade a TiVoHD(652160) again, this time using a WD AV-GP WD20EURS. I originally upgraded from the OEM 160GB drive to a 1.0TB drive but since the 2.0TB drive prices have come down lately, I figured I can always use more room, right? What I'd like to know is if I can just use the WinMFS program to copy the settings and recordings using Mfscopy from the 1TB to the 2TB, then expand and finally supersize. If so, there is a part of the instructions that doesn't make sense to me and they are these 2 steps:

_13. If you have not done so already, select File -> Select Drive and set the original TiVo drive as Drive A. Do not select anything for B.

14. Select Tools -> Mfscopy. Select the new internal drive replacement as 'Destination Drive A.' Do not select anything for B._

Why would I set both the original drive AND the new drive as both drive A?

Once I get past this part, I know what to do as far as expand (going to use 1028mb swap) and then Supersize. Since this is a WD AV-GP drive, I shouldn't have to run wdidle3, correct?

I may be overcautious with this but I've never tried to expand an "expanded" drive before and I usually don't try to preserve the recordings but I have alot of them and it would take quite awhile to offload them to a PC or another TiVo.

Thanks for your help.


----------



## unitron

John Wilson said:


> I'm planning to upgrade a TiVoHD(652160) again, this time using a WD AV-GP WD20EURS. I originally upgraded from the OEM 160GB drive to a 1.0TB drive but since the 2.0TB drive prices have come down lately, I figured I can always use more room, right? What I'd like to know is if I can just use the WinMFS program to copy the settings and recordings using Mfscopy from the 1TB to the 2TB, then expand and finally supersize. If so, there is a part of the instructions that doesn't make sense to me and they are these 2 steps:
> 
> _13. If you have not done so already, select File -> Select Drive and set the original TiVo drive as Drive A. Do not select anything for B.
> 
> 14. Select Tools -> Mfscopy. Select the new internal drive replacement as 'Destination Drive A.' Do not select anything for B._
> 
> Why would I set both the original drive AND the new drive as both drive A?
> 
> Once I get past this part, I know what to do as far as expand (going to use 1028mb swap) and then Supersize. Since this is a WD AV-GP drive, I shouldn't have to run wdidle3, correct?
> 
> I may be overcautious with this but I've never tried to expand an "expanded" drive before and I usually don't try to preserve the recordings but I have alot of them and it would take quite awhile to offload them to a PC or another TiVo.
> 
> Thanks for your help.


The TiVo in some ways is closer to the Apple and other non-IBM/DOS/Windows type computers than it is to the standard PC that runs Windows these days on an Intel or AMD processor.

The Series 1 and Series 2 TiVos used PATA/IDE drives and controllers--the kind with the 40 pin connector and the corduroy-looking ribbon cable.

Each controller can handle 2 drives on one 40 pin ribbon cable, the first of which in PCs is called the master and the second of which is called the slave.

An alternative way of referring to them (iwhen not talking about PC/IBM-compatible/DOS/Windows type situations where one or two floppy drives would be drives A: and B: and the first bootable partition on the Master drive on the primary IDE controller would be drive C is the A drive and the B drive.

Since WinMFS handles S1s through S3s, it reflects that terminology.

There were even some S1s that came with two internal drives from the factory, and many S1s and S2s that had them added later.

So, if you were copying a 2 drive setup, you'd have to select the A drive and the B drive. Those would be the source.

Then you'd select the target drives, the first of which would be the destination A and the second of which would be the destination B.

Destination = Target.

In an S3 copying situation, there's only one internal drive, so there's never a B drive.

So you select the A drive, which is the source drive, whatever internal drive you just pulled out of the TiVo and want to copy.

Then you select the Destination (or target) A drive, which will be the new A drive once you put it in the TiVo.

So just make sure you pick the 1TB when you first click "Select Drive", before you tell it to do anything else, and then when you click mfscopy, select the 2TB when it asks for the destination drive.

Then wait a long time. It may look like it's frozen, but it's not.

Then, when it finally finishes, test it in the TiVo.

Then hook it (but not the 1TB) back to the PC and run WinMFS and and after selecting it, click on mfsadd to use the extra 1TB on the 2TB.

But make sure you've got version 11.0k of the TiVo software on the 1TB before doing the copy.

Running wdidle3 won't hurt anything and you can do it right after you've run WD's own diagnostic software long test on that 2TB before you put it into service.

There's very, very little chance that there's anything wrong with it, but now is the time to make sure, because it's not impossible.


----------



## halfempty

Forgive the noobness, but I thought you couldn't go straight to a 2TB on an S3 using WinMFS. I thought you had to use JMFS to get the 2TB. If this is old info, can I go straight from the 160GB to a 2TB using WinMFS alone?


----------



## ThAbtO

halfempty said:


> Forgive the noobness, but I thought you couldn't go straight to a 2TB on an S3 using WinMFS. I thought you had to use JMFS to get the 2TB. If this is old info, can I go straight from the 160GB to a 2TB using WinMFS alone?


With the 11.0k version of Tivo, yes, you can go straight to 2tb.


----------



## unitron

halfempty said:


> Forgive the noobness, but I thought you couldn't go straight to a 2TB on an S3 using WinMFS. I thought you had to use JMFS to get the 2TB. If this is old info, can I go straight from the 160GB to a 2TB using WinMFS alone?


It is only in the past few months that it has been discovered (which is to say that I sort of blundered onto it with the kind assistance of other readers) that 11.0k will let any of the S3 platform TiVos use up to a 2TB drive and partitions greater than 1TB (or 1.2, depending on how you do the math).


----------



## halfempty

ThAbtO said:


> With the 11.0k version of Tivo, yes, you can go straight to 2tb.





unitron said:


> It is only in the past few months that it has been discovered (which is to say that I sort of blundered onto it with the kind assistance of other readers) that 11.0k will let any of the S3 platform TiVos use up to a 2TB drive and partitions greater than 1TB (or 1.2, depending on how you do the math).


Thank you both! Was planning on upgrading next week, you just saved me the trouble and expense of doing it the old way.


----------



## unitron

halfempty said:


> Thank you both! Was planning on upgrading next week, you just saved me the trouble and expense of doing it the old way.


I'm not sure what extra expense (if we're talking money) would have been involved, but you should run the manufacturer's diagnostics' long test on that 2TB before doing anything else with it, just to be on the safe side.


----------



## halfempty

unitron said:


> I'm not sure what extra expense (if we're talking money) would have been involved, but you should run the manufacturer's diagnostics' long test on that 2TB before doing anything else with it, just to be on the safe side.


Thought I had to buy an intermediate 1TB drive then JMFS to 2TB. I will take your advice and run extended diags on the new drive.


----------



## John Wilson

unitron said:


> The TiVo in some ways is closer to the Apple and other non-IBM/DOS/Windows type computers than it is to the standard PC that runs Windows these days on an Intel or AMD processor.
> 
> The Series 1 and Series 2 TiVos used PATA/IDE drives and controllers--the kind with the 40 pin connector and the corduroy-looking ribbon cable.
> 
> Each controller can handle 2 drives on one 40 pin ribbon cable, the first of which in PCs is called the master and the second of which is called the slave.
> 
> An alternative way of referring to them (iwhen not talking about PC/IBM-compatible/DOS/Windows type situations where one or two floppy drives would be drives A: and B: and the first bootable partition on the Master drive on the primary IDE controller would be drive C is the A drive and the B drive.
> 
> Since WinMFS handles S1s through S3s, it reflects that terminology.
> 
> There were even some S1s that came with two internal drives from the factory, and many S1s and S2s that had them added later.
> 
> So, if you were copying a 2 drive setup, you'd have to select the A drive and the B drive. Those would be the source.
> 
> Then you'd select the target drives, the first of which would be the destination A and the second of which would be the destination B.
> 
> Destination = Target.
> 
> In an S3 copying situation, there's only one internal drive, so there's never a B drive.
> 
> So you select the A drive, which is the source drive, whatever internal drive you just pulled out of the TiVo and want to copy.
> 
> Then you select the Destination (or target) A drive, which will be the new A drive once you put it in the TiVo.
> 
> So just make sure you pick the 1TB when you first click "Select Drive", before you tell it to do anything else, and then when you click mfscopy, select the 2TB when it asks for the destination drive.
> 
> Then wait a long time. It may look like it's frozen, but it's not.
> 
> Then, when it finally finishes, test it in the TiVo.
> 
> Then hook it (but not the 1TB) back to the PC and run WinMFS and and after selecting it, click on mfsadd to use the extra 1TB on the 2TB.
> 
> But make sure you've got version 11.0k of the TiVo software on the 1TB before doing the copy.
> 
> Running wdidle3 won't hurt anything and you can do it right after you've run WD's own diagnostic software long test on that 2TB before you put it into service.
> 
> There's very, very little chance that there's anything wrong with it, but now is the time to make sure, because it's not impossible.


If I am going to copy the programs over using MfsCopy, is that the step where I would change the swap size to 1028MB or can it be done at a later step?

I just went through this process with upgrading a TiVo HDXL from a 1.0GB to a 1.5GB and I think I forgot to change the swap size from the default 128MB to something larger. Am I hosed?


----------



## slsmag

bkdtv said:


> *Last Updated: August/12/2010.*


Just a quick note of THANKS to the entire TiVo community here:

I recently saw a TiVo S3HD on eBay - I suspected it wasn't working (because the seller said he 'couldn't test it' and that he had no idea if it was on a service plan). The ad included a photo of the back of the unit & the service ID# and a quick call to TiVo confirmed that the unit had a lifetime service plan. I was able to buy the box for $132.50 & shipping.

Upon arrival and hook-up it was clear something wasn't working - the guided set-up couldn't get past one of the set-up screens - the progress spinner just kept spinning on 'preparing'. Called TiVo (waste of time) and the cust serv rep told me 'it can take up to 24 hours'... so I let sit for a day. Called again and another rep told me to do the set up without a source/antenna plugged in (waste of time)... called a third time and another rep wanted me to replace ethernet cables, bypass my Ethernet switch, etc. (waste of time). Bigger waste of time: he told me he thought the NIC was bad (absurd) and that he could exchange the S3 for $99 and sell me a new lifetime subscription for an additional $199. (thanks - but no thanks).

A visit to this forum led me to the kickstart codes - which allowed me to confirm in less than 5 minutes that indeed it was the hard drive that was bad.

Then I read about 'approved drives' for replacement/upgrade and discovered that the WD 1TB external drive that I had from use with my Time Warner dvr was on the list.. so I pulled that from the external box...

Then I read more about how and where to download a truncated image for the S3 - and read more about how and where to download and use winMFS.

Opened up my desktop computer, pulled the SATA & power cable from the optical drive, hooked them up to the bare WD, ran winMFS (as administrator on my Windows 7 PC) - pointed it to the new drive and the image file...

And I now have a 1TB S3HD added to my network.

There's no way I could have done all of that - especially so quickly - without the terrific contributions from the people in this community and this forum.

THANK YOU!

*RESOURCES:*
-----------------------------------
WinMFS v.9.3f:
mfslive[dot]org

Truncated S3 image file "648250b.tbk":
dl[dot]dropbox[dot]com/u/49887720/648250b[dot]tbk
this is a 'clean' image with no TiVo Service ID# - after installing your newly imaged hard drive you must go to Tivo Settings and select "CLEAR AND DELETE EVERYTHING" so your TiVo will write it's TSID# to the hard drive.

*NOTES* for novices hesitating to do this upgrade:

1) Using winMFS you are not limited to replacing your dead HD with one of the same size.

2) When executing winMFS, don't just double click on it (it won't work) - RIGHT CLICK and select 'RUN AS ADMINISTRATOR'.

3) If you are using a truncated ISO file that you downloaded (ie: not made from the TiVo you are upgrading/repairing) then as soon as you boot the repaired TiVo you MUST go to settings and do a 'CLEAR and DELETE EVERYTHING' (at least on the S3) - otherwise your TiVo service number will not be written to the drive (and won't appear in your system info screen) and this will prevent you form being able to record anything - and throw error code #51.

- Michael

(2) Series 2 (lifetime)
Toshiba TiVo/DVD
TiVo Premier (lifetime)
TiVo Original S3 HD (1TB) (lifetime)


----------



## Tdub

I am about to upgrade my TiVoHD(652160) using a WD AV-GP WD20EURS drive. I have two questions.
1. Is it better to use WinMFS or JMFS?
2. Do you still need to set jumpers 7 and 8 on the Eurs drive, to accomodate its Advanced Format feature, even though I have the latest version of the Tivo OS (11.0)?
(I bought the Tivo from "tivo-pro" on ebay 4 years ago. He had cutom upgraded it to a (single) Hitachi 1tb drive.)
Thanks.


----------



## hummingbird_206

slsmag said:


> Just a quick note of THANKS to the entire TiVo community here:


I love stories like this. Congrats on your now working TiVo!


----------



## ThAbtO

Tdub said:


> I am about to upgrade my TiVoHD(652160) using a WD AV-GP WD20EURS drive. I have two questions.
> 1. Is it better to use WinMFS or JMFS?
> 
> Thanks.


You can use WinMFS and go straight to the 2TB drive, with the original Tivo software of 11.0k. When properly MFSAdd'd and supersized, it should have 315+ hrs.


----------



## DTxAg

Any idea what would cause an S3 (TCD648250B) to boot from the stock 250GB drive but get stuck on the Powering Up screen whenever I try to boot from a new WD drive? I've tried 500GB and 1TB drives, tried with WinMFS with truncated copies from the same TiVo and another S3, restored from an old instantcake copy, etc. Nothing works except the stock drive.


----------



## ThAbtO

DTxAg said:


> Any idea what would cause an S3 (TCD648250B) to boot from the stock 250GB drive but get stuck on the Powering Up screen whenever I try to boot from a new WD drive? I've tried 500GB and 1TB drives, tried with WinMFS with truncated copies from the same TiVo and another S3, restored from an old instantcake copy, etc. Nothing works except the stock drive.


You probably need to run WDidle3.exe /D


----------



## DTxAg

ThAbtO said:


> You probably need to run WDidle3.exe /D


Doesn't that problem just require a hard reboot with the plug pulled? I never heard that a TiVo would get stuck on the power up screen even after pulling the plug and putting it back in.


----------



## jmbach

Would not hurt to check the wdidle3 setting. Other things to check are the capacitors on the hard drive, run the manufacturer diagnostic on the drive, and re image the drive. Try DvrBARS to backup the working drive and restore to the other drive.


----------



## bs1211

Hi,

I have done this upgrade on the old replaytv's and didn't have this many issues with it. I know I am getting older and it is probably my skill set diminishing, but I cannot get this damn thing to work! Ugh...

1. Add the drive
2. Open WinMFS under admin rights
3. select the drive in Win MFS
4. I back up the drive using the WinMFS.
5. remove the drive
6. add the new drive
7. open WinMFS under admin rights.
8. Restore the image to the wd20eurs drive
9. click yes to the prompt for the 1tb warning
10. supersize the drive.
11. add the new drive to the tivo.
12. turn it on (and pray) :>)
13. it keeps getting stuck on the powering up screen.


I tried the other utility folks have mentioned, DvrBARS, but had no luck with that one either.

I put the old drive back in the tivo and it works, so it is not a capacitor issue, none have popped (I have seen them pop before on a computer).

Please help? I have 3 of these HD tivos and 3 of the drives and have spent the last week fighting with them. 

Does anyone have an image I could just copy to the drives and skip all of the other steps?

Help

Help

Help

Help

:>)


----------



## jmbach

What model HDs do you have. In the mean time after expand and supersize with WinMFS, try fixboot. The last person I worked with on this issue have a problem with block0 being incomplete preventing the Tivo from booting up completely. If fixboot doesn't work then we can manually fix block 0


----------



## ThAbtO

bs1211 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have done this upgrade on the old replaytv's and didn't have this many issues with it. I know I am getting older and it is probably my skill set diminishing, but I cannot get this damn thing to work! Ugh...
> 
> 1. Add the drive
> 2. Open WinMFS under admin rights
> 3. select the drive in Win MFS
> 4. I back up the drive using the WinMFS.
> 5. remove the drive
> 6. add the new drive
> 7. open WinMFS under admin rights.
> 8. Restore the image to the wd20eurs drive
> 9. click yes to the prompt for the 1tb warning
> 10. supersize the drive.
> 11. add the new drive to the tivo.
> 12. turn it on (and pray) :>)
> 13. it keeps getting stuck on the powering up screen.
> 
> I tried the other utility folks have mentioned, DvrBARS, but had no luck with that one either.
> 
> I put the old drive back in the tivo and it works, so it is not a capacitor issue, none have popped (I have seen them pop before on a computer).
> 
> Please help? I have 3 of these HD tivos and 3 of the drives and have spent the last week fighting with them.
> 
> Does anyone have an image I could just copy to the drives and skip all of the other steps?


You may need to run wdilde3.exe /D. To do it, you would need to boot up to an environment other than windows, like DOS.


----------



## jmbach

DTxAg said:


> Any idea what would cause an S3 (TCD648250B) to boot from the stock 250GB drive but get stuck on the Powering Up screen whenever I try to boot from a new WD drive? I've tried 500GB and 1TB drives, tried with WinMFS with truncated copies from the same TiVo and another S3, restored from an old instantcake copy, etc. Nothing works except the stock drive.


What are you using to copy the drive and are you doing a straight copy or expand and supersize as well. Have you tried booting up the new drive right after copying it before anything else was done.


----------



## bs1211

I have a Series 3 TCD652160 unit. 

Tried another round this morning with new drive and it still gets stuck and the original drive gets stuck on the powering up.

I did a straight copy, copy and supersize, etc... all of the stuff it says to do many times over.

I am afraid to pull another hard drive from another tivo hd unit i have and have it do the same thing.

Does anyone have an image for these 2tb wd20eurs drives i can use?

The worst part is the unit I tried to do is for my kids and has all of the kids shows and recordings on it.

Another day and I might go nuts with all of the comments from the wife about screwing it up....


----------



## MPSAN

I upgraded to a 2TB from an original 160GB drive. The 2TB was a WD20EZRX, but should not matter. What I did was run WDIDLE3 /D anyway from a bootable CD. Make sure no other HDD's are connected, and I disabled without an issue. I do not know how you connect the 2TB drive, but I used WIN XP and connected both the 160GB and the 2 TB to the Motherboard. Is the source drive at the latest software 11.0k as that is required for a 2 TB drive.


----------



## bs1211

Got it fixed with a backup image and DVRBARS utility. all it took was 1 hour.


----------



## unitron

WD20EURS $90 at newegg 'til 5/7/13

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=22-136-783&Tpk=N82E16822136783

Use promo code

EMCYTZT3403

to get $10 off of $99.99

Ends 11:59 PM Pacific Time, Tuesday night, May 7th, 2013


----------



## ThreeSoFar

unitron said:


> WD20EURS $90 at newegg 'til 5/7/13
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=22-136-783&Tpk=N82E16822136783
> 
> Use promo code
> 
> EMCYTZT3403
> 
> to get $10 off of $99.99
> 
> Ends 11:59 PM Pacific Time, Tuesday night, May 7th, 2013


Thanks Unitron! I got one of these just as a spare...or in case I buy another Premiere.


----------



## DTxAg

ThAbtO said:


> You may need to run wdilde3.exe /D. To do it, you would need to boot up to an environment other than windows, like DOS.


wdidle3 did the job, at least for a 500gb drive. This is for a spare one that won't be used much, so I don't need to test the 1tb drive. Thanks.


----------



## nooneuknow

unitron said:


> WD20EURS $90 at newegg 'til 5/7/13
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=22-136-783&Tpk=N82E16822136783
> Use promo code
> EMCYTZT3403
> to get $10 off of $99.99
> Ends 11:59 PM Pacific Time, Tuesday night, May 7th, 2013


THANK YOU!!! I've been waiting for that price point with free shipping on the menu and no sales tax. I bought the max of 5.

As much as I don't believe a need for an AV drive (retail/online stores and even WD often simply advertise them as for use in "video surveillance equipment"), and know that TiVo uses neither the standard ATA Streaming feature, nor the WD "Silkstream" feature (backwards compatible with standard streaming), there's no sure way to know that it will stay that way, and I like a 3 year warranty.

I've seen tons of advice, to others around the forums, which I find misleading. I'm sure the intentions were good, but I'd like to point out, after much research, that an AV drive only uses different error handling methods if using the streaming features. Think about it. TiVos have databases, and partitions that could easily become corrupted if handled with the streaming error-handling that the AV portions use. Even in the primary target market, for security/surveillance, there are areas where an AV/streaming error-handling method would lead to corruption in very important areas of the drive data. This is why you actually CAN safely use an AV drive in a computer to store databases/spreadsheets/etc. Also, think about the very important data that must be kept on security equipment, other than video, such as an accurate time/date-stamp/etc. That would not be handled through the streaming set, but overlaid on top of the AV portion that is. So far, the only thing that I can come up with that may help in a TiVo, not found in non-AV drives is PWL (Pre-emptive wear leveling). These days, all drives are made to run 24/7, regardless of if they will. I'd like to see PWL added to non-AV drives.

Believe it or not, I have a stack of Maxtor PATA drives from the days when 120GB was the biggest you could get, which have ATA streaming built into them. They were not sold as AV drives, but as high performance multimedia drives, to get the best multimedia experience possible on your PC, along with the most storage. It wasn't long before those drives got dropped from the product lines. They had no PWL, no alleged 24/7 rating. I find it amusing and oxymoronic to call a 24/7 rated AV drive "green", unless it's expected to be used to non-24/7 scenarios. I do recognize the value of lower RPMs, variable RPMs, and head parking/spindle spin-down. I do like Seagate's 7200RPM Barracuda SATA 3 drives, that state "Green when they need to be". I haven't used one in a TiVo, though. It seems like a waste of a high performance, yet green capable drive, that I could put in my new tower.


----------



## 1283

nooneuknow said:


> I've seen tons of advice, to others around the forums, which I find misleading. I'm sure the intentions were good, but I'd like to point out, after much research, that an AV drive only uses different error handling methods if using the streaming features.


I have found it to be very difficult to convince people that most of these AV features are command level behaviors, not drive level.


----------



## jmbach

c3 said:


> I have found it to be very difficult to convince people that most of these AV features are command level behaviors, not drive level.


Is anybody aware of any references that aver that the TiVo boxes never use any of these commands when streaming?


----------



## ccrider2

unitron said:


> WD20EURS $90 at newegg 'til 5/7/13
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=22-136-783&Tpk=N82E16822136783
> 
> Use promo code
> 
> EMCYTZT3403
> 
> to get $10 off of $99.99
> 
> Ends 11:59 PM Pacific Time, Tuesday night, May 7th, 2013


Thanks Unitron, got one for the shelf....now perhaps they'll drop some-more. 

Just a heads up for anyone ordering these...The 'code' only works once; so if you want more than one....order them at the same time.

Edit: Just my luck....The drive seems to work (spin-up) in a dock on a Win 7 Machine.. But none of WD tests will pass. SMART initially had one parameter (re-allocate Sector Count) that was higher than threshold. After multiple tests, and last ditch one of letting Windows format it, hopefully to make it fail, it now shows another issue in SMART of a RAW Read Error Rate failure, but the drive keep chugging like it has no issues..... I wrote zeros to it successfully (????). .....Got it boxed-up and ready to return to the egg... unfortunately; Got a bad feeling about my outcome.


----------



## nooneuknow

c3 said:


> I have found it to be very difficult to convince people that most of these AV features are command level behaviors, not drive level.


You are not alone. The ONLY reason I suspect that TiVo keeps treating AV as regular data is how many people would end up with "bricked" TiVo units if the drives don't support streaming extensions. Even though TiVo is NOT obligated to provide support for end-user upgraded TiVos, using non-AV drives, it still would flood the support lines with calls, anyway. I can no longer recommend non-AV drives for Premieres, as I have this feeling that TiVo could, at any time, send out an update that requires the streaming extensions, thus "bricking" such units. I think DVR_DUDE knows something the rest of us don't. It's just a suspicion, though. Until I know that the hardware doesn't support the ATA streaming, or WD silkstream (backwards compatible), it's always a possible scenario.

Just dig into "ATA streaming" and "WD silkstream", beyond the advertising, and the "specifications" disguised as advertising, and it will all make sense.


----------



## nooneuknow

jmbach said:


> Is anybody aware of any references that aver that the TiVo boxes never use any of these commands when streaming?


richsadams was notorious for saying this. As of the past couple years, he's taken a lot of sabbaticals from the forums, as he doesn't seem to like getting in battles with others. I respect him for that. However, he dismissed my honest attempts to get the "kickstart FAQ" sticky changed to reflect my units having a different behavior. He admitted that he had a Premiere XL that he based his sticky on. I have four non-XL Premieres, which all behaved differently. The lights on the front of the units apparently behaved differently, based on the revision of the board, firmware, and software. I've seen some people say the last update changed how their units behaved. I do recognize richsadams as a very valuable resource to these forums, who may have had TiVo models going way back to possibly the first generation. He's always tried to help anybody he could. But, he's not somebody who likes to experiment on his family TiVos. He's more of the "let the others try it and see how it works over time" type. But, he has tried to help many newbies on here, as best he could. I just don't see him as the type to buy a TiVo, strip off the internal shields, research the chipsets, and report on the facts of that. There are other forums that are more underground/hacking related, which have posts that say it may even be possible for a Premiere to have it's BIOS (PROM) flashed by TiVo, remotely, but never proven. It was found that each PROM had the TSN programmed into it. AFAIK, nobody went any further past that discovery.

Since this thread is in the "Series 3" area, I SOMEWHAT feel it's safe to say that no S3/HD will ever require the streaming extensions to be supported by the hard drive. That's unless TiVo deliberately sends out an update, which would also require the hardware to support it.


----------



## John Wilson

ccrider2 said:


> Thanks Unitron, got one for the shelf....now perhaps they'll drop some-more.
> 
> Just a heads up for anyone ordering these...The 'code' only works once; so if you want more than one....order them at the same time.
> 
> Edit: Just my luck....The drive seems to work (spin-up) in a dock on a Win 7 Machine.. But none of WD tests will pass. SMART initially had one parameter (re-allocate Sector Count) that was higher than threshold. After multiple tests, and last ditch one of letting Windows format it, hopefully to make it fail, it now shows another issue in SMART of a RAW Read Error Rate failure, but the drive keep chugging like it has no issues..... I wrote zeros to it successfully (????). .....Got it boxed-up and ready to return to the egg... unfortunately; Got a bad feeling about my outcome.


Looks like I got one from the same batch as ccrider2. Thanks to advice I received on this thread, I always run the WD Diagnostic Extended Test on a new drive. Up to this point I haven't had an issue. Until this last purchase from Newegg! It failed the extended test with "too many sector errors detected" so I have to get it replaced. 
Question: Should I RMA it with Newegg or RMA it with WD?

Thanks for your input.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

John Wilson said:


> Looks like I got one from the same batch as ccrider2. Thanks to advice I received on this thread, I always run the WD Diagnostic Extended Test on a new drive. Up to this point I haven't had an issue. Until this last purchase from Newegg! It failed the extended test with "too many sector errors detected" so I have to get it replaced.
> Question: Should I RMA it with Newegg or RMA it with WD?
> 
> Thanks for your input.


OK, this has me worried then. Does anyone have a link to an ISO of a bootable CD with the right WD diagnostic program for this drive?


----------



## jmbach

John Wilson said:


> Looks like I got one from the same batch as ccrider2. Thanks to advice I received on this thread, I always run the WD Diagnostic Extended Test on a new drive. Up to this point I haven't had an issue. Until this last purchase from Newegg! It failed the extended test with "too many sector errors detected" so I have to get it replaced.
> Question: Should I RMA it with Newegg or RMA it with WD?
> 
> Thanks for your input.


Newegg RMA it. Will get a new replacement. WD RMA will probably get remanufactured drive.


----------



## jmbach

ThreeSoFar said:


> OK, this has me worried then. Does anyone have a link to an ISO of a bootable CD with the right WD diagnostic program for this drive?


WD website has both Windows and DOS version of their diagnostic. It will be the latest version that will support your drive.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

jmbach said:


> WD website has both Windows and DOS version of their diagnostic. It will be the latest version that will support your drive.


That does not help me.

I have no Windows or DOS PC.

What I want is a bootable CD that works in an old Dell PC (Pentium III maybe) that has no OS on it at all.


----------



## ThAbtO

ThreeSoFar said:


> That does not help me.
> 
> I have no Windows or DOS PC.
> 
> What I want is a bootable CD that works in an old Dell PC (Pentium III maybe) that has no OS on it at all.


Ultimate Boot CD


----------



## ThreeSoFar

And btw, when will these companies start producing a Linux diagnostic program?


----------



## ThreeSoFar

ThAbtO said:


> Ultimate Boot CD


But the WD Diag .exe file is not on this CD.

The crappy PC has only the new SATA drive attached and a floppy and a single CD drive from which I can boot.

But I have no OS that can write to the floppy.

Can the UBCD be removed once the DOS on it is running? So I can load a burn CD with the .exe I want on it and run it?


----------



## jmbach

ThreeSoFar said:


> That does not help me.
> 
> I have no Windows or DOS PC.
> 
> What I want is a bootable CD that works in an old Dell PC (Pentium III maybe) that has no OS on it at all.


Sorry, didn't know your specifics. Since you mentioned Linux. Can I assume you are running that on a PC or are you using a MAC with some flavor of OSX. You could create a DOS USB key or a DOS floppy and easily add the program on it. It would be a little more difficult to create a DOS iso and add the program to it. Would any other options mentioned other than and iso work for you.

As mentioned earlier the ultimate boot CD is an option. You could edit the iso before you burn it and update the WD diagnostic program on it.

Here is the info on customizing the Ultimate Boot CD http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/customize.html


----------



## ThreeSoFar

jmbach said:


> Sorry, didn't know your specifics. Since you mentioned Linux. Can I assume you are running that on a PC or are you using a MAC with some flavor of OSX. You could create a DOS USB key or a DOS floppy and easily add the program on it. It would be a little more difficult to create a DOS iso and add the program to it. Would any other options mentioned other than and iso work for you.
> 
> As mentioned earlier the ultimate boot CD is an option. You could edit the iso before you burn it and update the WD diagnostic program on it.
> 
> Here is the info on customizing the Ultimate Boot CD http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/customize.html


The customize .iso may well do it for me. I'd always figured that was possible but never figured out how.

It's a weird setup I have, I know. I do have MacBooks and a Mac Mini, but I'd always used my old crappy Dell Pentium III system for TiVo upgrades.

It has CD and floppy drive, but no OS--so by now I have no OS anymore that can write floppies. It doesn't have Linux unless I boot a Linux CD. And I don't even think it has USB, not really sure.

Many many times I've almost bought a newer used Dell with SATA and USB on board just to have for TiVo upgrades. I figured I should get rid of my old crappy Dells....their husks, really. Not much to them.

But now I have this new WD drive that I'd like to test. I've mostly gotten lucky not bothering with the long test all these years. Of the dozens of TiVos I've done over the years (for us and friends/family), only a couple had drive issues. At first I used Samsung drives, switched to WD with the Premieres.

I'll ask around at work if anyone has an old PC they want to get rid of that's less old than my crap.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

ThreeSoFar said:


> The customize .iso may well do it for me. I'd always figured that was possible but never figured out how.


Quoting my own post here....but OK, how do I customize an .iso image on a Mac OSX? That link seems to be all C:\ crap (windows).


----------



## jmbach

ThreeSoFar said:


> Quoting my own post here....but OK, how do I customize an .iso image on a Mac OSX? That link seems to be all C:\ crap (windows).


At the bottom it shows you where the equivalent Linux commands reside. They may or may not work with OSX. You essentially follow the Windows instructions using the OSX equivalent commands. The files on the iso is just data to OSX. It might not recognize the data but it will manipulate it. All that C:\ crap is essentially the equivalent to a folder in OSX or Linux.


----------



## alyssa

what external case are people using these days?

i've got a Antec mx-1 that's having a fan issue. Not sure if I can hold on long enough to get the fan replacement.


----------



## dianebrat

alyssa said:


> what external case are people using these days?
> 
> i've got a Antec mx-1 that's having a fan issue. Not sure if I can hold on long enough to get the fan replacement.


It can live with a sick fan for longer than you can live with it making noise and driving you insane 

With the original S3 now being able to take a 2TB drive the solution a lot of us have moved to is a single 2TB internal drive.


----------



## alyssa

yeah, the noise is driving us crazy. I was even thinking of putting the drive in my hot swap thingy.

good to know my annoyance with the noise is the biggest worry. I've instructed everyone in the house. "if the tivo asks to unmarry the external hdd, turn the tv off & come find me".


----------



## nooneuknow

I just received a shipment of six WD20EADS-00S2B0 HARCHV2AA 2TB Western Digital hard drives, as replacements for some degraded/defective ones I sent back. They're factory recertified replacements, still sealed.

PM me if you'd like to make me an offer. If you'd like, I could pre-image them for either TiVo HD, or 2-tuner Premiere. I don't need them, because I already bought EURS AV-GP replacements, when Newegg had them on special.

I know some don't like/trust 4K drives, so I figured these 512-byte sector ones may be of interest to some of you.


----------



## dougdingle

wfaulk said:


> I have had my Series 3 for ages now and have had an eSATA drive connected to it for the vast majority of that time. Recently, my internal drive started failing, so I started to look into replacing it. I decided to get a new drive that was at least as big as both drives together and consolidate everything.
> 
> So I'm trying to copy everything from the 250GB internal drive and 1TB eSATA drive to a single 2TB drive to be installed as a replacement internal drive.
> 
> None of the tools I've found to use seem to work. The MFSlive CD gets about 80% done with a "backup | restore" chain and then tells me "Memory exhausted". I just tried WinMFS and it's telling me "Combine 2 drive to 1 is not supported yet!", despite the "Full Guide" at mfslive.org saying, at option 3.20, "This option is built into WinMFS so give it a try."
> 
> I've been using WinMFS Beta Build 9.3f and MFSlive 1.4, both downloaded from mfslive.org. Should I be using different tools? What am I doing wrong?


I am in the same boat, have had the identical experiences, and unfortunately, it appears there are no tools currently available to do what we need. It is doable (weaknees offers it as a service if you buy a drive from them), but I suspect it's all done manually.

What I have done for the moment is use the program DVRbars:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=503261

to image and refresh both internal and external S3 drives. It is a straight byte-for-byte copy and restore program that works in Windows and does what it says.

With the help of a clever and experienced guy from that thread, we are investigating doing it manually, but it's slow going.

If Spike is still around, it would be nice if he changed his pages to reflect that combining two into one on the S3 is not possible with his software.


----------



## unitron

ThreeSoFar said:


> But the WD Diag .exe file is not on this CD.
> 
> The crappy PC has only the new SATA drive attached and a floppy and a single CD drive from which I can boot.
> 
> But I have no OS that can write to the floppy.
> 
> Can the UBCD be removed once the DOS on it is running? So I can load a burn CD with the .exe I want on it and run it?


Sorry I didn't see your post earlier.

I no longer get notification emails from this site.

Boot from the UBCD

Go to hard drive menu, go to the diagnostics menu, there are two version of the WD software from which to choose--go with the newer one, I think it's 9.4

I promise you it's on there, I just used it a few days ago to pre-test a 20EURS before putting it into service.


----------



## dlfl

Question about creating a 2 TB upgrade HDD for a Tivo HD (model 652) using a WinMFS truncated backup (i.e., not transferring recordings) taken from a 1 TB HDD running 11.0k :

I would like to do this in one step using WinMFS -- the TiVo is in a very difficult to reach location so hooking it up for intermediate testing (i.e., after restoring but prior to expanding) is very difficult.

In an earlier post:


unitron said:


> ..........
> In your case as long as you don't mind losing the recordings you can make a backup with WinMFS, then restore it to the 2TB, don't accept when it offers to expand, test it in the TiVo, then hook it back to the PC, launch WinMFS and click on mfsadd to use the entire drive, and then use WinMFS to supersize.
> .


I then questioned the need for the intermediate hookup test and was told it was just a "one step at a time" preference.

My question is:
If I choose not to do the intermediate hookup test, can I go ahead and accept when WinMFS offers to expand (during the restore process) or do I still need to do it as a separate mfsadd step?

Another question is about the swap size. Is it advisable to increase it to say 1GB and if so can I do that during the WinMFS restore/expand/supersize ?


----------



## jmbach

dlfl said:


> My question is:
> If I choose not to do the intermediate hookup test, can I go ahead and accept when WinMFS offers to expand (during the restore process) or do I still need to do it as a separate mfsadd step?
> 
> Another question is about the swap size. Is it advisable to increase it to say 1GB and if so can I do that during the WinMFS restore/expand/supersize ?


Intermediate testing is not required just a recommendation. 
Whenever I tried to expand right after restore, WinMFS hangs but if I say no to expand right after restore followed by running MFSAdd it works just fine. Remember to say no to limit the expansion to 1TB.

You can specify the swap size during the restore process. FWIW, the 2TB premiere XL4 with its 2TB drive only has a 128mb swap size. That being said I did increase mine to 1024mb.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

unitron said:


> Sorry I didn't see your post earlier.
> 
> I no longer get notification emails from this site.
> 
> Boot from the UBCD
> 
> Go to hard drive menu, go to the diagnostics menu, there are two version of the WD software from which to choose--go with the newer one, I think it's 9.4
> 
> I promise you it's on there, I just used it a few days ago to pre-test a 20EURS before putting it into service.


Thanks for the reply.

I want to try this...but where can I download the thing?

http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/download.html

I go to this site and all I see are explanations and ads, no actual link to download anything.

Way to many damn ads...has to be the wrong place.

So of course I go here:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/ubcd/

ANd I see this I can download:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/ubcd/files/latest/download

What good will that be? It says downloads "Downloads/firefox-0.8.tar".

WUWT?

ETA: Aha! Is this it? ubcd524.iso from:

http://ultimate-boot-cd.soft32.com

Here's the sha1sum of the first chunk (it's not done downloading yet):

-rw-r--r-- 1 rackoblack rackoblack 20000000 Jun 14 01:37 xaa

b810f6ce03d0f8ade266300673c358abb4644a91 xaa


----------



## ThAbtO

ThreeSoFar said:


> I want to try this...but where can I download the thing?
> 
> http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/download.html
> 
> I go to this site and all I see are explanations and ads, no actual link to download anything.


On the download page,










Don't click on the link with the names, look to the left and click on the little icon (a disk drive with an arrow) and that will start the download. The link on the right is just a link to the host.

Download the .ISO file and save it, unless you are ready to burn a CD while it downloads.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

ThAbtO said:


> On the download page,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't click on the link with the addresses, look to the left and click on the little icon and that will start the download. The link on the right is just a link to the host.


Clicking on any of those brings up just yet another damn ad site with no clear way to download it. None at all. MOre adds, and always "ultimatebootcd" is one of those ads.

Please give me a sha1sum of the complete iso in case I ever find the damn thing.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

ThreeSoFar said:


> Clicking on any of those brings up just yet another damn ad site with no clear way to download it. None at all. MOre adds, and always "ultimatebootcd" is one of those ads.
> 
> Please give me a sha1sum of the complete iso in case I ever find the damn thing.


Namely, this:

http://100-downloads.com/download.php?p=376#p376

Oh, but this one gets something:

http://www.serverninjas.com/ultimat...es/ultimate-boot-cd/ultimate-boot-cd-download

I think I have two copies now, from different sites. If they agree, I'll try this.

(I miss FTP.)


----------



## nooneuknow

ThAbtO said:


> On the download page,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't click on the link with the names, look to the left and click on the little icon (a disk drive with an arrow) and that will start the download. The link on the right is just a link to the host.


I was just thinking of TiVo's own website with their gigantic SUBMIT buttons, that only work if your mouse is dead-center on the button. Sometimes, it's best to have that extra bar on the bottom of your browser that gives you an indication of what, if anything, will happen when clicking on things ...or if anything is happening.

The UBCD site is much easier to navigate with that on, as well.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

I think I have UBCD524 burned properly now. 

If someone has that iso someplace, please post a sha1sum of it here to give me some confidence it's the right one. It's 519M so it's not nothin...


----------



## ThAbtO

ThreeSoFar said:


> Clicking on any of those brings up just yet another damn ad site with no clear way to download it. None at all. MOre adds, and always "ultimatebootcd" is one of those ads.
> 
> Please give me a sha1sum of the complete iso in case I ever find the damn thing.


Scroll down about a page until you see part of the page similar to what I posted. Its a tiny icon so its easy to miss. I am downloading it right now, ubcd524.iso, is the file.

If you notice in my posted picture, see the dotted square around one of those icons (to the left of "PC Babble"), I had clicked it and it downloads.


----------



## JohnnyO

The 1GB upgraded drive I installed in a TiVoHD in 2008 is starting to fail, so I'm going to replace it with a similar (or 2 GB) drive. Looking at the note string, WinMFS seems a strong favorite tool these days. What version do folks recommend? It looks like 9.3Beta f and g are the most recent.


----------



## unitron

JohnnyO said:


> The 1GB upgraded drive I installed in a TiVoHD in 2008 is starting to fail, so I'm going to replace it with a similar (or 2 GB) drive. Looking at the note string, WinMFS seems a strong favorite tool these days. What version do folks recommend? It looks like 9.3Beta f and g are the most recent.


EDIT TO ADD:

Almost forgot, be sure your problem is really a failing drive and not a failing power supply (although it could be both)

--we now return you to your regularly scheduled post--

Unless you're living in Australia and upgrading an Australian model TiVo, use 9.3f

The documentation isn't exactly up to date--I guess spike has better things to do these days, like maybe making a living.

If you don't already have it and can't register to download it, email or PM me through this site (TCF).

You need to be running version 11.0k of the TiVo software to use a 2TB drive Maybe a previous version will work but "k" is the most recent so you might as well have it anyway, and if you've had the TiVo online lately you probably do.

You copy the old drive to the new one or restore a .tbk WinMFS truncated image file to the new drive, and then tell it no when it says there's extra space, do you want to expand.

Then you select the new drive and click on mfsinfo, and make sure everything looks okay.

At that point you can then expand by using mfsadd (part of WinMFS, as are mfscopy and mfsinfo), and telling it not to limit partition size to 1.2TB, or you can take the unexpanded drive and put it in the TiVo and make sure it works okay and then hook it back up to the PC and use WinMFS to expand.

If you've restored from a pre-11.0k truncated image, then you need to do that to get it up to "k" first anyway.

Start looking for a good deal on a 2TB WD20EURS.


----------



## unitron

nooneuknow said:


> I was just thinking of TiVo's own website with their gigantic SUBMIT buttons, that only work if your mouse is dead-center on the button. Sometimes, it's best to have that extra bar on the bottom of your browser that gives you an indication of what, if anything, will happen when clicking on things ...or if anything is happening.
> 
> The UBCD site is much easier to navigate with that on, as well.


Since my newest UBCD .iso is from over a year ago I figured I grab the latest one.

Clicked on the little (shades of Win 3.0) drive icon (figured that one out last time around) for older geeks, which launched their web page (or at least one of them) with a bunch of stuff on it and the actual thing to click for the download way down near the bottom, so be warned.

Once I found the right place it downloaded quickly and smoothly.


----------



## bomberjim

I'm interested in re-upgrading my wife's Tivo HD. Currently it's running a 500GB drive that was created with InstantCake back when it was purchased. I have a (virtually) unused 1.5 TB Seagate drive (ST 31500541AS) that I'd like to upgrade to. I have several questions as follows:

1. Any reason that this model Seagate wouldn't work?

2. I've downloaded Winfms beta 9.3f is this the best program to use? Are the most current instructions on page 1 of this thread?

3. I assume I can use the current 500GB drive as the source and the 1.5 TB drive as the target, correct?

4. Anything else I should be careful of or need to know? I've tried to read some of the info on this thread, but it's getting quite long. 

Thanks very much,
Jim L


----------



## jmbach

bomberjim said:


> I'm interested in re-upgrading my wife's Tivo HD. Currently it's running a 500GB drive that was created with InstantCake back when it was purchased. I have a (virtually) unused 1.5 TB Seagate drive (ST 31500541AS) that I'd like to upgrade to. I have several questions as follows:
> 
> 1. Any reason that this model Seagate wouldn't work?


No. Essentially any drive will work. The issues you may have with a non AV drive is noise, heat, and shortened time to failure. The operative word is 'may'.



bomberjim said:


> 2. I've downloaded Winfms beta 9.3f is this the best program to use? Are the most current instructions on page 1 of this thread?


Yes and most probably.



bomberjim said:


> 3. I assume I can use the current 500GB drive as the source and the 1.5 TB drive as the target, correct?


Yes



bomberjim said:


> 4. Anything else I should be careful of or need to know? I've tried to read some of the info on this thread, but it's getting quite long.
> 
> Thanks very much,
> Jim L


Check the drive for errors with the manufacturer diagnostic before you start writing to it. Make sure you run WinMFS as administrator. Everything takes longer than you think.


----------



## highvista

I wanted to give a short report on my upgrade of a Tivo Series 3, TCD648250B, from a 750GB drive to a 2TB drive. The new drive is a Western Digital 2TB AV-GP, WD20EURS. The Tivo is running software version 11.0k-01-2-648, and the System Information for the unit shows up to 318 HD hours of recording capacity.

I used WinMFS to copy the contents of my 750GB drive to the new 2TB drive. I had supersizing turned on. I believe I was offered the chance to expand the drive size, but I also used the "mfsadd" function of WinMFS.

I used the wdidle program to verify that the WD20EURS already had the IDLE3 function disabled. Important note: Make sure you attach the drive directly to your motherboard's SATA bus. I tried using wdidle with the drive in an external dock that is attached to the internal bus, and wdidle saw the drive, but it kept reporting an error and not showing the IDLE3 state.

My biggest problem was that when I put the new drive into the Tivo and powered it up, I'd get the "Welcome" screen for a couple minuntes, along with the proper front lights showing on the unit. Then, the lights would go out, the amber light would flash, my TV screen would blank, and then the "Welcome" screen re-appear. I was stuck in an endless boot loop. But the original drive worked just fine and booted normally.

After much fiddling and research, I finally realized that this might be a sign that my power supply was going bad. Sure enough, three capacitors on the power supply had domed, swollen tops, indicating they were going bad. I replaced these capacitors and now the Tivo boots normally with the 2TB drive. I'm guessing that the new drive is drawing enough extra power during boot over the old 750GB drive that the failing capacitors couldn't handle it and induced the boot looping.

Hopefully, this will help out anyone with similar issues. Here are some URLs that were very useful to me through this process:

Series 3 stuck in "Welcome! Powering up..." loop
Bad capacitors in power supply 
What's wrong with my S3?


----------



## JohnnyO

unitron said:


> Unless you're living in Australia and upgrading an Australian model TiVo, use 9.3f
> 
> The documentation isn't exactly up to date--I guess spike has better things to do these days, like maybe making a living.


The process went smoothly. It turned out I already had 9.3f from replacing the drive in my other TiVoHD about 14 months ago.

Interestingly, the two drives that went bad were two of the originally recommended WD Green drives that are no longer on the recommended list.  Both of my TiVoHD's now have AV rated WD drives. Hopefully I'll get more than 3 years out of them. Of course, hopefully TiVo will have new systems that I see value in upgrading to in that timeframe.

John


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## nooneuknow

JohnnyO said:


> The process went smoothly. It turned out I already had 9.3f from replacing the drive in my other TiVoHD about 14 months ago.
> 
> Interestingly, the two drives that went bad were two of the originally recommended WD Green drives that are no longer on the recommended list.  Both of my TiVoHD's now have AV rated WD drives. Hopefully I'll get more than 3 years out of them. Of course, hopefully TiVo will have new systems that I see value in upgrading to in that timeframe.
> 
> John


Just for the benefit of others, the "recommended drive list", generally, is outdated, reflects drives for older units, and/or is just biased. People have been upgrading using drives that others have claimed are NOT recommended. I can't argue, that an AV drive, when they are on sale, is a no-brainer. However, when not on-sale, and either meeting, or beating, the prices of non-AV drives, it leaves you spending money for features that TiVos (even the most recent ones) don't use, known as the "streaming command set". When this is the situation, an AV drive reads/writes, just the same as any other non-AV drive. Why TiVo uses AV drives, in the first place, is probably a condition of their terms with WD, or WD simply offers TiVo the same pricing on both types, leaving it a no-brainer for TiVo.

The streaming command set features of any AV drive MUST BE supported by the hardware of the device, the software of the device, and must be enabled. I just checked my TiVo logs from a Premiere, and even though the drive, and TiVo Premiere, BOTH support SATA2, TiVo sets the transfer mode to SATA1, via software. So, that's even further proof that TiVo is NOT using the full capabilities of the drives they install at the factory.

The above paragraph contains a lot of information that people LOVE to argue about. The key is in what's opinion, or just misinformation, that some have read elsewhere, then pass along, without confirming for themselves. I've spent years digging into it. It's mostly the upgrade vendors that offer pre-imaged drives, that provide the BULK of the misinformation, to scare people into thinking that they NEED AV drives, and it gets passed along in the forums, without confirming the facts. Even though WD advertises AV drives as 24/7 rated, it's also just a marketing tactic. If you study the actual published data sheets, you'll find that the MTBF rating, and drive power-on hours ratings, are the SAME. All modern drives are fully capable of 24/7 operation, in non-standby, non-power saving, use. The manufactures COUNT ON people not digging any deeper than the one-page, bold-print, piece of advertising literature, and NOT studying the fine-print of the multi-page data sheets. It works, and works well. That's why they do it. They make more money that way.


----------



## unitron

The WD20EURS gives you the most size you can use in an S3 or S4 (and a better GB/$ ratio than smaller drives), usually at as good a price as any other 2TB drive, with a 3 year warranty, and runs fairly cool and quiet, and seems to have as good a history in TiVos as any other drive, if not better.

If you're buying a new drive instead of using something you already have on hand, I don't see any compelling reason to use anything else.

You just have to wait for it to go on sale.


----------



## tluxon

I bought a 2TB WD20EURS back in January to upgrade one of my TiVoHD's with. The drive in the TiVoHD is a Seagate 750GB DB35 drive that I MFSlive'd 4 or 5 years ago and I had never had a problem with it until about a month ago. Since then it has frozen in the middle of playback and caused a reboot of the TiVo about 3 times, so I figured it was about time to replace it.

This morning I checked all the capacitors on the TiVo's power supply and mainboard and they looked like new, so I decided to go ahead with the upgrade. I chose to try the WinMFS method because I already had it downloaded to my old PC that runs WinXP SP3 off an IDE drive and has two SATA drive slots as well. I ran WDIDLE3 /r to confirm that IDLE was disabled and then booted into WinXP to start WinMFS (beta 9.3f).

The copy began just as expected about 1hr 45m ago, and the first 6 bars on the status graph filled in in just a few minutes. The 7th bar filled in about 20 minutes later, but now it's been another 1-1/2 hours without any further progress appear.

Any experience with something like this?

Should I ignore the lack of updating of the status bar (I don't recall this being the way it worked when I upgraded another TiVoHD a couple years ago), or could it be a sign of trouble reading from the source drive?

Can the process be interrupted by shutting off the power so I can try my MFSlive CD? (or JMFS, whichever might give me more status information such as a copying bitrate?)

If there are problems reading the drive, are there any other methods to recover the programs that are still recoverable (which will almost certainly diminish the longer I leave the drive spinning)?

What do you think?


----------



## tluxon

I was able to cancel the operation in WinMFS and shut down the computer without having to "pull the plug".

I burned the JMFS ISO to a CD and booted to it. So far it has copied about 95GB at an average rate of about 47400 KB/s (sure is nice to see that number update every second so I can confirm that reading and writing is actually occuring).

First, I'm just hoping this thing can work through difficult-to-read blocks and make it to the end of the process. Then, as long as the expand and supersize steps go as I imagine they should, I hope to have the TiVo back up and running in 4-6 hours (depending on how much of a delay any tough-to-read blocks generate).

----------------
Edit (update):
Okay, I'm now about 1 h 50 m in, and copying is still chugging away at 318GB so far with 0 errors. Unless JMFS and WinMFS copy from the source differently, I'm wondering if there might have been nothing wrong with the WinMFS procedure other than receiving absolutely zero feedback that the copy was progressing. In other words, I MAY have just added another 2 hours to an already lengthy process by aborting it. However, I'm just NOT going to let a questionable HDD keep spinning doing nothing (apparently) when it has content on it that I would prefer to try and retain before it's destroyed.

In any case, I'm on the JMFS bus now and would love comments on how the partition table may come out different than it would've under WinMFS. Is the fact that the source drive already had 11.0k on it and had been supersized when it was created enough to be assured I won't be exceeding the 16 partition limit when expanding and supersizing? And do I even NEED to supersize if the SOURCE drive already HAD been supersized?

Thanks!


----------



## jmbach

Hmmmm. Will be interesting to see. If I understand you correctly, the current drive in the TiVo is a 750gb drive that was created by copying and expanding the original drive. So the 750gb drive should have a total of 15 partitions. WinMFS would copy it and expand the 15th partition to use the rest of the drive. Whereas JMFS would add a 16th colasced partition. It may work. Never tried that setup. If it does please post back. 

Your other option at this time if you want to still use WinMFS is to exit JMFS after the copy process then boot windows and run WinMFS MFSAdd. If the original image is supersized already you will not be able to supersize again. It will follow the copy process.


----------



## tluxon

The copy is just about done (739 GB) with one (oops, a second one just popped up as I typed this) error so far.

I had actually thought of shutting down JMFS after the copy and starting WinXP again to try to do the MFSadd (expand), but I wasn't sure if it was any different than doing the expand in JMFS, which I'm already in.

Are you pretty sure JMFS will create a new partition to expand into as opposed to WinMFS simply expanding the last existing one? Or is that what you thought I should find out. If JMFS creates a new partition that I don't want, what would I need to do then?

Perhaps it's safer to do it with WinMFS just to be sure I'm not creating a situation (extra partition) that's harder to get out of, but I'm sure many would like to know if they can stay in JMFS for this if it's not already known, so maybe I'll just 'take this one for the team'.

As I finished typing this, I see the copy is up to 745 GB with now numerous (9) errors, so I hope this thing's going to complete.


----------



## tluxon

Well, I just checked on it again and it's frozen at 750156 MB with 10 errors and 3+ minutes since the last successful read. What could I possibly do from here?


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## jmbach

tluxon said:


> Well, I just checked on it again and it's frozen at 750156 MB with 10 errors and 3+ minutes since the last successful read. What could I possibly do from here?


Go to bed and see what the morning brings.


----------



## tluxon

Okay, it finally said it was copied successfully after a couple 5-10 minute periods without a successful read. The errors pushed me into the direction of chickening out and doing the expand (MFSadd) in WinMFS. Nonetheless, I thought it might satisfy some curiosities to post the MFSinfo.txt file I got out of WinMFS before and after the expand.

After JMFS copy:

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 549.6G)

Total SA SD Hours: 780	Total DTV SD Hours: 681 1 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-652	Tivo Model: TCD652160

After WinMFS MFSadd:

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Expanded by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.7T)

Total SA SD Hours: 2083	Total DTV SD Hours: 1818 63 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-652	Tivo Model: TCD652160

So, as you can see, even in JMFS the last two partitions are Winmfs partitions. I'm pretty certain the JMFS expand would simply expand the last partition (I had SuperSize off both before and after, so there was no Apple partition at the end) just like WinMFS did.

Now it's time to put the new drive in the TiVo and start it up.


----------



## jmbach

tluxon said:


> The copy is just about done (739 GB) with one (oops, a second one just popped up as I typed this) error so far.
> 
> I had actually thought of shutting down JMFS after the copy and starting WinXP again to try to do the MFSadd (expand), but I wasn't sure if it was any different than doing the expand in JMFS, which I'm already in.
> 
> Are you pretty sure JMFS will create a new partition to expand into as opposed to WinMFS simply expanding the last existing one? Or is that what you thought I should find out. If JMFS creates a new partition that I don't want, what would I need to do then?
> 
> Perhaps it's safer to do it with WinMFS just to be sure I'm not creating a situation (extra partition) that's harder to get out of, but I'm sure many would like to know if they can stay in JMFS for this if it's not already known, so maybe I'll just 'take this one for the team'.
> 
> As I finished typing this, I see the copy is up to 745 GB with now numerous (9) errors, so I hope this thing's going to complete.


I am fairly certain that JMFS will create a 16th colasced partition. What I am not sure about is if your TiVo will boot up and run with it. Colasced partitions work as that is what JMFS does with the original drives of TivoHDs and premieres. But that being the 16th partition and working in don't know. If it doesn't work then you have two options. One is to re copy the drive with either JMFS (which is better if your original drive has errors) and expand with WinMFS or do it all with WinMFS. The other which is more technical but faster would require you to copy specific blocks from the original drive to the new drive.


----------



## jmbach

tluxon said:


> Okay, it finally said it was copied successfully after a couple 5-10 minute periods without a successful read. The errors pushed me into the direction of chickening out and doing the expand (MFSadd) in WinMFS. Nonetheless, I thought it might satisfy some curiosities to post the MFSinfo.txt file I got out of WinMFS before and after the expand.
> 
> After JMFS copy:
> 
> Partition Maps
> #: type name length base ( size )
> 1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
> 2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
> 9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
> 12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
> 14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
> 15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 549.6G)
> 
> Total SA SD Hours: 780	Total DTV SD Hours: 681 1 % Free
> Software: 11.0k-01-2-652	Tivo Model: TCD652160
> 
> After WinMFS MFSadd:
> 
> Partition Maps
> #: type name length base ( size )
> 1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
> 2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 5 Image Bootstrap 2  [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
> 9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
> 12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
> 14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
> 15 MFS MFS Expanded by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.7T)
> 
> Total SA SD Hours: 2083	Total DTV SD Hours: 1818 63 % Free
> Software: 11.0k-01-2-652	Tivo Model: TCD652160
> 
> So, as you can see, even in JMFS the last two partitions are Winmfs partitions. I'm pretty certain the JMFS expand would simply expand the last partition (I had SuperSize off both before and after, so there was no Apple partition at the end) just like WinMFS did.
> 
> Now it's time to put the new drive in the TiVo and start it up.


That is because JMFS just copied the whole original drive over to the new drive. No modifications were done to the drive at that stage. 
The Apple_free partition has nothing to do with supersize. 
JMFS will not expand the last partition like WinMFS does, it will add a colasced partition.


----------



## tluxon

I had to break away for a bit, but everything's working as it was supposed to and I've now got 318HD/2777SD hours of recording space now.


jmbach said:


> That is because JMFS just copied the whole original drive over to the new drive. No modifications were done to the drive at that stage.
> The Apple_free partition has nothing to do with supersize.
> JMFS will not expand the last partition like WinMFS does, it will add a colasced partition.


By coalesced, I assume you mean an additional 'media' partition that is spanned with the already existent 65.6G and 549.6G 'media' partitions. It looks like I still would've just made it inside the 16 partition limit, though, so it probably wouldn't have been an issue to do the expand with JMFS. I guess the key would be to check that the source drive has no more than 15 partitions before upgrading.

Regardless, I very much preferred the continual feedback I received during the JMFS copy process over the less informative feedback I got from WinMFS. The JMFS process also seems to be more fault tolerant. However, these are probably not meaningful factors unless the source drive has potential problem areas in it due to age (mine was 5 years old and had frozen on playback a couple times), exacerbated when it's also desired to preserve the recorded programs.

So essentially, the sequence I followed and will probably use on my next upgrade is to do the copy process using the JMFS Live CD (ISO currently at http://www.mediafire.com/?pfc9n8o30tc64) and the expand process (MFSadd) and SuperSize - if needed - using WinMFS (http://www.mfslive.org/) from within Windows. YMMV


----------



## jmbach

tluxon said:


> I had to break away for a bit, but everything's working as it was supposed to and I've now got 318HD/2777SD hours of recording space now.By coalesced, I assume you mean an additional 'media' partition that is spanned with the already existent 65.6G and 549.6G 'media' partitions. It looks like I still would've just made it inside the 16 partition limit, though, so it probably wouldn't have been an issue to do the expand with JMFS. I guess the key would be to check that the source drive has no more than 15 partitions before upgrading.


A coalesced partition is one where the MFS application and MFS media partitions are rolled into one.



tluxon said:


> Regardless, I very much preferred the continual feedback I received during the JMFS copy process over the less informative feedback I got from WinMFS. The JMFS process also seems to be more fault tolerant. However, these are probably not meaningful factors unless the source drive has potential problem areas in it due to age (mine was 5 years old and had frozen on playback a couple times), exacerbated when it's also desired to preserve the recorded programs.


I agree.

Sent from my ME301T using Tapatalk HD


----------



## ThAbtO

I saw the price of $67 and ordered it.

Also, the 2TB is $96, 1.5 TB is $97.


----------



## nooneuknow

ThAbtO said:


> I saw the price of $67 and ordered it.
> 
> Also, the 2TB is $96, 1.5 TB is $97.


I'm running a pair of the 2TB WD20EZRX ones in one Premiere (TCD746320) and a TiVo HD (TCD652160). They've been in service for about 8 months now.

Aside from disabling IntelliPark, I just left the acoustic setting at whatever it was (which I wouldn't recommend for use in a small room, or where the TiVo is very close to a user that can't handle hearing drive-seeking noises).

They are VERY low-power, which I suspect is due to having very basic function (no dedicated chips drawing power just to make them silent-running, no unnecessary ATA streaming extensions support, etc.).

I can report having no problems, excellent performance (both when imaging & in use), cool operating temps, and a great price (I bought them as external USB 2.0 WD Essentials units for $69 each, on sale, at Fry's).

The only downside is a 1yr warranty on externals, 2yr on internals, & technically no-warranty, if WD can figure out you had ever opened the enclosure on an external unit.

I tend to find the best prices buying externals, and then removing the drive, while buying the same drive, bare, is much higher. What I loved about this purchase, was nothing went to waste. I put other WD drives in the enclosures, or just use the bridge board, for when I need USB 2.0-SATA scenarios.

My similar experiment with Seagate USB 3.0/2.0 externals, and trying to use the bridge boards/enclosures for other uses didn't work out.


----------



## MPSAN

I had the same drive (WD20EZRX) and it worked fine in my THD. I did notice this...

*I just left the acoustic setting at whatever it was*

When I tried to use the software it said the acoustic settings were not supported in this drive. It was in our bedroom and we did not find it loud at all.


----------



## nooneuknow

MPSAN said:


> I had the same drive (WD20EZRX) and it worked fine in my THD. I did notice this...
> 
> *I just left the acoustic setting at whatever it was*
> 
> When I tried to use the software it said the acoustic settings were not supported in this drive. It was in our bedroom and we did not find it loud at all.


I almost always DISABLE acoustic management entirely (when it is an option), just because it DOES decrease drive seeking performance ever-so-slightly (which the manufacturers used to deny, but now publish the fact in their datasheets).

I'm not bothered by drive seeking noises, at all. I like to know if a drive is hard at work, or idling. OTHERS on here aren't happy unless their drives are as silent as a drive can be. That's the ONLY reason I made the comment you quoted and underlined in bold.

I was in a hurry to get the EZRX drives into use for my folks. So, I didn't even check to see if I could change the acoustics, at all. I also had an inkling that it may be possible that such a basic, very low-power, drive model may have no options for acoustic management, or may not even have any form of it (thus saving the cost of the management IC, and the power needed to use it).


----------



## MPSAN

nooneuknow said:


> I almost always DISABLE acoustic management entirely (when it is an option), just because it DOES decrease drive seeking performance ever-so-slightly (which the manufacturers used to deny, but now publish the fact in their datasheets).
> 
> I'm not bothered by drive seeking noises, at all. I like to know if a drive is hard at work, or idling. OTHERS on here aren't happy unless their drives are as silent as a drive can be. That's the ONLY reason I made the comment you quoted and underlined in bold.
> 
> I was in a hurry to get the EZRX drives into use for my folks. So, I didn't even check to see if I could change the acoustics, at all. I also had an inkling that it may be possible that such a basic, very low-power, drive model may have no options for acoustic management, or may not even have any form of it (thus saving the cost of the management IC, and the power needed to use it).


The only reason I posted the above was to perhaps save someone the time if they tried to change the setting on this drive. I think that I did change it on my other drives, however.


----------



## nooneuknow

MPSAN said:


> The only reason I posted the above was to perhaps save someone the time if they tried to change the setting on this drive. I think that I did change it on my other drives, however.


Ok, cool. It's getting hard to tell when people are actually making a valid point, versus finding anything they can to pounce on, to try and humiliate you, or bait you into a flaming war, on these forums, in general. Thanks for being clear about it. 

Just out of curiosity, what did you adjust the acoustic management setting to, and with what drive models, if you don't mind sharing?

I just did some shopping around, and found that normal retail/online pricing for the 1TB-2TB bare drive is $10 more than the external, with the same drive inside (and the bonus parts, that can be repurposed). Like I said, there is the downside of shaving a year off the warranty for external drives, and no-warranty if you mark up, or damage, the case opening it. It seems that most problem drives are DOA, quick sudden death, or come up with bad sectors when tested right out-of-the box. It seems like if you don't have any detected issues in the first month, you'll likely get three years of problem-free service, thus negating the need for a long warranty (when it comes to WD - not sure how the other drive makers are in these areas).


----------



## MPSAN

nooneuknow said:


> Ok, cool. It's getting hard to tell when people are actually making a valid point, versus finding anything they can to pounce on, to try and humiliate you, or bait you into a flaming war, on these forums, in general. Thanks for being clear about it.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, what did you adjust the acoustic management setting to, and with what drive models, if you don't mind sharing?
> 
> I just did some shopping around, and found that normal retail/online pricing for the 1TB-2TB bare drive is $10 more than the external, with the same drive inside (and the bonus parts, that can be repurposed). Like I said, there is the downside of shaving a year off the warranty for external drives, and no-warranty if you mark up, or damage, the case opening it. It seems that most problem drives are DOA, quick sudden death, or come up with bad sectors when tested right out-of-the box. It seems like if you don't have any detected issues in the first month, you'll likely get three years of problem-free service, thus negating the need for a long warranty (when it comes to WD - not sure how the other drive makers are in these areas).


I believe that I enabled the AAM on a pair of WD10EARS drives, and another 1TB WD drive a bit before the EARS drives came out. I ran HDDSCAN and I believe I set it to 128 which makes it as quiet as it can get. I am not sure a TIVO needs the faster seek anyway.

BTW, one of the WD10EARS drives did start to have reboot issues. WD gave me a 90 day extension as my warranty was up. They sent me a WD20EZRX and that is how I found that it did not support AAM. Yes, most drive issues occur soon, but people forget what the M in MTBF means. 
P.S. I know what you mean about TROLLS returning. It seems that ANY thread that is started quickly goes WAY OT!


----------



## nooneuknow

MPSAN said:


> I believe that I enabled the AAM on a pair of WD10EARS drives, and another 1TB WD drive a bit before the EARS drives came out. I ran HDDSCAN and I believe I set it to 128 which makes it as quiet as it can get. I am not sure a TIVO needs the faster seek anyway.
> 
> BTW, one of the WD10EARS drives did start to have reboot issues. WD gave me a 90 day extension as my warranty was up. They sent me a WD20EZRX and that is how I found that it did not support AAM. Yes, most drive issues occur soon, but people forget what the M in MTBF means.
> P.S. I know what you mean about TROLLS returning. It seems that ANY thread that is started quickly goes WAY OT!


Hmm, I had six WD20EADS drives I sent back under warranty and received factory-recertified ones of the same exact model back (but different serial numbers, at least).

Know of anybody that may want them, before I open the sealed bags? I like having the hard-512-byte-sector drives, especially for PC use, but had already ordered five WD20EURS when Newegg had them really cheap with free shipping. Now I have a whole-lot-o-hard-drives goin' on, but not much money!


----------



## tluxon

After a few days of use, I'm not sure how much I like the WD20EURS for our TiVos. I watch portions of tons of sporting events, and as such do an awful lot of fast-forwarding to get to the 'good parts'. So far, this WD20EURS that I put in on Saturday is really sluggish at FF'ing and REW'ing compared to the 750GB Seagate DB35.3 it replaced.

Perhaps it's the slow 5200 RPM spindle, but I'm wondering if anyone has a good recommendation for a 2TB drive that would give better performance without getting too hot or being too spendy.

Anybody think the Seagate ST2000DM001 2TB drive (64MB Cache, 7200 RPM) would work very well in a TiVo?


----------



## tluxon

tluxon said:


> After a few days of use, I'm not sure how much I like the WD20EURS for our TiVos. I watch portions of tons of sporting events, and as such do an awful lot of fast-forwarding to get to the 'good parts'. So far, this WD20EURS that I put in on Saturday is really sluggish at FF'ing and REW'ing compared to the 750GB Seagate DB35.3 it replaced.
> 
> Perhaps it's the slow 5200 RPM spindle, but I'm wondering if anyone has a good recommendation for a 2TB drive that would give better performance without getting too hot or being too spendy.
> 
> Anybody think the Seagate ST2000DM001 2TB drive (64MB Cache, 7200 RPM) would work very well in a TiVo?


It looks like the Seagate flavor recommended/designed for DVR usage is the ST2000VM002. Anybody have experience with that one in their TiVo?


----------



## nooneuknow

tluxon said:


> After a few days of use, I'm not sure how much I like the WD20EURS for our TiVos. I watch portions of tons of sporting events, and as such do an awful lot of fast-forwarding to get to the 'good parts'. So far, this WD20EURS that I put in on Saturday is really sluggish at FF'ing and REW'ing compared to the 750GB Seagate DB35.3 it replaced.
> 
> Perhaps it's the slow 5200 RPM spindle, but I'm wondering if anyone has a good recommendation for a 2TB drive that would give better performance without getting too hot or being too spendy.
> 
> Anybody think the Seagate ST2000DM001 2TB drive (64MB Cache, 7200 RPM) would work very well in a TiVo?


I actually have two of those drives. I found that the WD20EADS (512byte-sector 5400RPM, 32MB Cache, Green, Non-AV), WD20EARS (5400RPM, 64MB Cache, Green, Non-AV), WD20EURS (5400RPM, 64MB Cache, Green-AV), & WD20EZRX (5400RPM, 64MB Cache, Green Non-AV) ALL run at TWICE the transfer rate as the Seagate 7200RPM drives you are asking about, when using GNU DD_RESCUE to clone from drive to drive, in both directions.

After seeing the terrible performance during a clone, to or from, the Seagate drives, I stuck them on a shelf, and decided they'd only be used for backup drives, in another project, or as a last resort. I have no idea why they perform so poorly. I tried tweaking the parameters of the clone operation to see if I could get better results, and I couldn't get any.

I used a computer with SATA-2 on-board, as well as an older SATA-1 computer, with both giving nearly identical transfer speeds (around the realistic maximum of SATA-1), with the WD drives, and half of it with the Seagate drives. I'd do simultaneous, side-by side, comparisons, to rule out the SATA controllers as being an issue.

This doesn't mean they won't work, or won't work well once installed in a TiVo, but I just didn't feel like even trying them.


----------



## tluxon

nooneuknow said:


> I actually have two of those drives. I found that the WD20EADS (512byte-sector 5400RPM, 32MB Cache, Green, Non-AV), WD20EARS (5400RPM, 64MB Cache, Green, Non-AV), WD20EURS (5400RPM, 64MB Cache, Green-AV), & WD20EZRX (5400RPM, 64MB Cache, Green Non-AV) ALL run at TWICE the transfer rate as the Seagate 7200RPM drives you are asking about, when using GNU DD_RESCUE to clone from drive to drive, in both directions.
> 
> After seeing the terrible performance during a clone, to or from, the Seagate drives, I stuck them on a shelf, and decided they'd only be used for backup drives, in another project, or as a last resort. I have no idea why they perform so poorly. I tried tweaking the parameters of the clone operation to see if I could get better results, and I couldn't get any.
> 
> I used a computer with SATA-2 on-board, as well as an older SATA-1 computer, with both giving nearly identical transfer speeds (around the realistic maximum of SATA-1), with the WD drives, and half of it with the Seagate drives. I'd do simultaneous, side-by side, comparisons, to rule out the SATA controllers as being an issue.
> 
> This doesn't mean they won't work, or won't work well once installed in a TiVo, but I just didn't feel like even trying them.


I'm not sure that block-to-block / sector-to-sector copying ("cloning") is representative of the kind of performance I'm talking about.

From what I can tell, the newer WD green drives don't have a fixed spindle speed, but are speed-controlled by their "Intellipower" technology. I don't know what their maximum speeds are - and I'm not certain that it makes a difference - but so far I've noticed that if I fast-forward for more than 5 or 10 seconds the frame-display rate does increase slightly - approaching, but not matching, the performance I was getting with the DB35.3 drives.

I just wish I could get that DB35.3 performance again, because it's really hard to fast-forward through a game and get much out of it when only 3 or 4 frames are displayed per minute of content.


----------



## nooneuknow

tluxon said:


> I'm not sure that block-to-block / sector-to-sector copying ("cloning") is representative of the kind of performance I'm talking about.
> 
> From what I can tell, the newer WD green drives don't have a fixed spindle speed, but are speed-controlled by their "Intellipower" technology. I don't know what their maximum speeds are - and I'm not certain that it makes a difference - but so far I've noticed that if I fast-forward for more than 5 or 10 seconds the frame-display rate does increase slightly - approaching, but not matching, the performance I was getting with the DB35.3 drives.
> 
> I just wish I could get that DB35.3 performance again, because it's really hard to fast-forward through a game and get much out of it when only 3 or 4 frames are displayed per minute of content.


That is a valid point. I'm in a bit of a quandary, myself. I keep seeing reports, that while TiVo uses the WD20EURS in one incarnation of the Premiere, which has been renamed, it doesn't seem to work well in the ones that didn't come factory-equipped with one.

I know that the ratio of people who report problems, or perceived issues, to those who report no problems, or no perceived issues, is very skewed towards us hearing about nearly all the bad, and very little of the good.

I'm contemplating using tested-and-proven WD20EADS (WD factory recertified) drives, to replace the ones that have held-up for three years, of the same model, which have true 512-byte sectors, versus all the new WD20EURS ones I bought, thinking that since I got them for the price of a non-AV drive, with free shipping, how could I go wrong, or get any better of a replacement drive?

Well, between the reviews I've seen of the WD20EURS here, Newegg, Amazon, and elsewhere, I almost want nothing to do with them, now. This is because ALL my TiVos are either TiVo HD 652160, or Premiere 746320 2-Tuner models. None of these were designed for 4K sectors. I bought pre-imaged WD20EURS drives, for both models, only to discover that his (the well-known, and highly recommended eBay merchant) claims of being fully 4K sector aligned, is pure fallacy. He just took original images, and tacked-on one huge coalesced partition at the end of the drive, much like JMFS does. The TiVo HD image is tweaked, but still, based on what I believe I know, it's not aligned and/or optimized.

This would mean the 4K sector drives would not run at their full performance, if the TiVo even ever actually required it, and it's well known that unaligned/non-optimized 4K drives wear-out faster, besides taking the performance hit.

The only upside is that these pre-imaged drives can easily be cloned with GNU DD_RESCUE, and they can be cloned from their 4K drives to 512-byte ones (or any drive of equal, or greater capacity).

So, here I sit, with enough factory-sealed WD20EURS 4K drives, and enough factory-sealed (recertified) WD20EADS 512-byte drives, to use either to swap out the three-year old WD20EADS 512-byte drives currently in service.

I need to make a decision, today, or tomorrow. Then, what to do with the drives I don't use? The WD20EURS drives get AWFUL ratings for non-AV environments. The WD20EADS drives never seemed to get many complaints, were the forum preferred model of low-priced, non-AV, drives for TiVo upgrades, until they were discontinued, and replaced by the WD20EARS, which didn't get the same positive feedback.

I honestly regret snapping up so many WD20EURS drives, just assuming "How could I go wrong with these?"...

Things were a lot more black & white, before the whole 4K sector matter came into the equation.


----------



## tluxon

nooneuknow said:


> ...
> Things were a lot more black & white, before the whole 4K sector matter came into the equation.


Thanks for mentioning this. It hadn't occured to me that the TiVoHD wasn't made to use 4K sector drives the way they were meant to be used. I'm familiar with that whole 512B/4K sector issue due to dealing with it with our Windows Home Server v1. Many of WD's advanced format drives needed the jumper to make them look like 512B sector drives, while Seagate advanced format drives were significantly more tolerant (at least early on) of being used in either system.

I can't help but wonder if cloning the drive all over again with the jumper installed this time would make a performance difference. I haven't tried cloning a Tivo drive with our Debian Server - and I didn't realize a 4K sector drive could be 'cloned' to a 512B sector drive - so I'd probably just stick with JMFS and WinMFS. But trying the jumpered copy (a little kludgy IMO) is a bit temping.

I have seen that ALL Western Digital WDxxEADS drives are 512B sector drives, so if I already had them that's probably what I'd use. Since you have a batch of WD20EURS drives, you might want to try one of them with the 512B jumper to see what you get.

Then there's this thread over on the AVS Forums about Hard Drive Replacement on the MOXI:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1303511/official-moxi-hard-drive-replacement-thread/360

It looks like I might have to try one of those Seagate SV35 drives...


----------



## 1283

tluxon said:


> Partition Maps
> #: type name length base ( size )
> 1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
> 2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )


Those two 512-byte partitions look odd. Did you start with an original TiVo drive? When I upgraded my last TiVoHD a couple of months ago, I thought all partitions (other than #1) were 4KB-aligned. Not sure without looking at it again.


----------



## nooneuknow

tluxon said:


> Thanks for mentioning this. It hadn't occured to me that the TiVoHD wasn't made to use 4K sector drives the way they were meant to be used. I familiar with that whole 512B/4K sector issue due to dealing with it with our Windows Home Server v1. Many of WD's advanced format drives needed the jumper to run them as 512B sector drives, while Seagate advanced format drives were significantly more tolerant (at least early on) of being used in either system.
> 
> I can't help but wonder if cloning the drive all over again with the jumper installed this time would make a performance difference. I haven't tried cloning a Tivo drive with our Debian Server - and I didn't realize a 4K sector drive could be 'cloned' to a 512B sector drive - so I'd probably just stick with JMFS and WinMFS. But trying the jumpered copy is a bit temping.


Just to be clear, the current 4K drives are known as 512e (They fake out the host into thinking the drive is a 512 byte sector drive). Then, if not properly partitioned/aligned/optimized, the virtual 512 byte sectors overlap onto two 4K hard sectors, thus making the drive read/write two 4K sectors when only one read/write should be necessary. That's the simple/concise explanation.

I think the whole jumper solution was just a temporary fix, only for use with Windows XP and certain partitioning methods. I'd read the drive spec sheets, and make sure of what really happens, if there actually is a jumper for the drive in-hand.

The reason why you can clone between a 4K/512e drive and a true hard 512 byte sector drive, is due to the host thinking the 4K/512e drive isn't 4K.

I *think* the jumper was for activating an emulation mode that shifted a virtual mapping, thus further "faking out" the host, for WinXP.


----------



## tluxon

Reading reviews on Amazon makes me think the Seagate SV35 (ST2000VX000 for 2TB) drives are the most appropriate replacements for the DB35.3 drives (the defacto 'best' drive to upgrade with 5 years ago) for similar performance. It's a 7200 RPM drive for the more demanding video environments, and I'm convinced that's the reason I'm seeing the drop-off in performance I brought up. For those looking for a better balance between power saving and performance, the 5900 RPM ST2000VM002 (2TB) is probably the go-to drive on the Seagate side.


----------



## jmbach

c3 said:


> Those two 512-byte partitions look odd. Did you start with an original TiVo drive? When I upgraded my last TiVoHD a couple of months ago, I thought all partitions (other than #1) were 4KB-aligned. Not sure without looking at it again.


Unless you had a modified tivo drive from some upgrade vendors those are the normal partition sizes. The only TiVos that come from the factory 4k aligned are the 4 tuner versions.


----------



## 1283

With the original TiVoHD 160GB drive, all 4 MFS partition base addresses are 4KB aligned (see attachment). The size of the MFS media region 2 is not a multiple of 4KB, but that probably doesn't matter much. After MFS Copy, many partitions are moved around, as shown in tluxon's partition tables, with the most important one being the MFS media region 1 not 4KB aligned.

I'm thinking if dd followed by mfsadd would be a better way to preserve the 4KB alignment.


----------



## tluxon

nooneuknow said:


> ...
> I think the whole jumper solution was just a temporary fix, only for use with Windows XP and certain partitioning methods. I'd read the drive spec sheets, and make sure of what really happens, if there actually is a jumper for the drive in-hand.
> ...
> I *think* the jumper was for activating an emulation mode that shifted a virtual mapping, thus further "faking out" the host, for WinXP.


Thanks for triggering my memory on that. With WHSv1, we were dealing with the pin 7-8 jumper in lieu of the WDAlign utility. It was related to older Windows 5.xx operating systems (WindowsXP, Server 2003, WHSv1) creating their partition start at LBA 63 while drives with 4K sectors wanted it to start at block 64. The jumper caused the drive to automatically add +1 to any address received from the OS, while WDAlign would actually move the partition.

It may or may not have any bearing on TiVo operating systems, as I recall it being noted as an issue with older Windows OSes. Also, it seems obvious to me that although I'm not getting the snappy performance I got with the DB35 drive, the WD20EURS is working far better than I would expect if the block/sector alignment issue was a problem. Perhaps it's getting a little better than when first playing with it or I was seeing poor results from an anomalous recording, but tonight when I was playing with some recordings and with the live buffer, I was seeing closer to 10 to 15 frames per minute of content, and it didn't seem as sluggish as initially. Depending on the bitrate of the recording I'm watching, I'm seeing as many as 10 to 15 frames for each minute of content when in FF2, which is more acceptable than I first experienced.

At the moment, I'm not as down on the WD20EURS as I was 24 hours ago. However, it might be better suited for the bedroom while I put something snappier, like the Seagate SV35 (ST2000VX000) in the room where I FF through sports the most. I definitely want to at least try a SV35 if for nothing more than comparison.


----------



## 1283

tluxon said:


> At the moment, I'm not as down on the WD20EURS as I was 24 hours ago.


perhaps not writing to the unaligned media region 1 at the moment?


----------



## tluxon

c3 said:


> Those two 512-byte partitions look odd. Did you start with an original TiVo drive? When I upgraded my last TiVoHD a couple of months ago, I thought all partitions (other than #1) were 4KB-aligned. Not sure without looking at it again.


I just now saw your question. In Jan '08 when I got the first two TiVoHD's, they had 160GB drives in them which I immediately upgraded to the DB35.3 750GB drives with WinMFS, using the original drives as the source.

Earlier in the thread I mentioned that I did the upgrade with the MFS Live CD, but that was because I didn't remember and I was influenced by having just run across the Live CD I had burned. Later I found posts on the mfslive.org forum that reminded me I had used WinMFS.

A couple years ago I replaced the first DB35.3 drive that was failing with a WD10EVDS (1TB) and this last one was the second DB35.3 drive, so both of these most recent upgrades were not from the original, but from the copy-of-the-original DB35.3 drives.


----------



## tluxon

c3 said:


> perhaps not writing to the unaligned media region 1 at the moment?


What do you mean by "unaligned"? Do you think TiVo's operating system has same problems with advanced format drives that Windows 5.xx OSes have?

Are you aware of TiVoHD users having trouble with the WD20EURS as the drive fills up? I didn't see any evidence of it before purchasing the drive back in January.

I guess I better start recording everything I can to fill it up and see what happens then.


----------



## 1283

tluxon said:


> What do you mean by "unaligned"? Do you think TiVo's operating system has same problems with advanced format drives that Windows 5.xx OSes have?


AFAIK, OS deals with the AF issue by aligning the partitions to 4KB boundaries and allocating files in 4KB clusters. Can an AF-aware OS deal with unaligned partitions without degrading write performance? I don't know, but it seems unlikely.



tluxon said:


> Are you aware of TiVoHD users having trouble with the WD20EURS as the drive fills up? I didn't see any evidence of it before purchasing the drive back in January.
> 
> I guess I better start recording everything I can to fill it up and see what happens then.


If the problem you're experiencing is caused by the 4KB issue, then it's a matter of where the drive is writing at the moment, not how full the drive is. On your drive, two media regions are 4KB-aligned, but one is not.


----------



## jmbach

c3 said:


> With the original TiVoHD 160GB drive, all 4 MFS partition base addresses are 4KB aligned (see attachment). The size of the MFS media region 2 is not a multiple of 4KB, but that probably doesn't matter much.


True. The smaller size of the MFS Media Region 2 allows the latter partitions after Bootstrap 2 partition to be 4k aligned again. Even though partitions may be 4k aligned, if the directory structure of the partition does not maintain 4k alignment there is no advantage of having the partition 4k aligned. I do not know if the MFS partitions maintain 4k integrity internally.



c3 said:


> After MFS Copy, many partitions are moved around, as shown in tluxon's partition tables, with the most important one being the MFS media region 1 not 4KB aligned.


If MFSCopy tries to give you optimized partition layout, it will move the core partitions as close to the center of the disk as possible. It will do this many times by putting MFS media regions 1 and 2 back to back at the beginning of the drive before the core partitions and add the WinMFS created MFS Media partition after the core partitions. If it does not optimize the partition layout, then it copies them in order of their partition number.



c3 said:


> I'm thinking if dd followed by mfsadd would be a better way to preserve the 4KB alignment.


In this instance it would. On my OLED S3 it would not. Actually WinMFS because of the way it moves partitions, 4k aligns my MFS partitions.

EDIT: c3 pointed out my error in calculation. Partition 11 is not aligned and I retract my previous statement concerning WinMFS and partition alignment as stated.



Code:


Partition Maps
 #:                  type name                            length base      ( size  )
  1   Apple_partition_map Apple                               [email protected]         (  31.5K)
  2                 Image Bootstrap 1                          [email protected] ( 512.0 )
  3                 Image Kernel 1                          [email protected] (   4.0M)
  4                  Ext2 Root 1                          [email protected] ( 256.0M)
  5                 Image Bootstrap 2                          [email protected] ( 512.0 )
  6                 Image Kernel 2                          [email protected] (   4.0M)
  7                  Ext2 Root 2                          [email protected] ( 256.0M)
  8                  Swap Linux swap                     [email protected] (   1.0G)
  9                  Ext2 /var                            [email protected] ( 256.0M)
 10                   MFS MFS application region          [email protected] ( 288.0M)
 11                   MFS MFS media region             [email protected] ( 103.4G)
 12                   MFS MFS application region 2        [email protected] ( 288.0M)
 13                   MFS MFS media region 2           [email protected]        ( 128.1G)
 14                   MFS MFS App by Winmfs                 [email protected] (   1.0M)
 15                   MFS MFS Expanded by Winmfs      [email protected] (   1.6T)


----------



## 1283

jmbach said:


> Actually WinMFS because of the way it moves partitions, 4k aligns my MFS partitions.
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Partition Maps
> #:                  type name                            length base      ( size  )
> 11                   MFS MFS media region             [email protected] ( 103.4G)


Partition 11 is not 4k aligned.


----------



## jmbach

c3 said:


> Partition 11 is not 4k aligned.


 I stand (or sit) corrected.


----------



## tluxon

So it looks like any TiVoHD (and perhaps ANY Series 3) upgrade via JMFS or WinMFS to an advanced format drive may/will(?) result in media partitions - the ones we care most about - that are NOT aligned with the 4K sectors of such a drive.

Two questions come to me first:

1) How significantly does this impact performance and longevity of the drive?
Is it worth the worry?

2) Is there a way around it or a preferred way to mitigate it?
For example, doing a DD copy or using a high RPM drive with a long warranty.


----------



## dlfl

tluxon said:


> So it looks like any TiVoHD (and perhaps ANY Series 3) upgrade via JMFS or WinMFS to an advanced format drive may/will(?) result in media partitions - the ones we care most about - that are NOT aligned with the 4K sectors of such a drive.
> 
> Two questions come to me first:
> 
> 1) How significantly does this impact performance and longevity of the drive?
> Is it worth the worry?
> 
> 2) Is there a way around it or a preferred way to mitigate it?
> For example, doing a DD copy or using a high RPM drive with a long warranty.


A lot of reports of successful upgrades to WD20EURS and other AF drives here, I believe.


----------



## tluxon

dlfl said:


> A lot of reports of successful upgrades to WD20EURS and other AF drives here, I believe.


Right. And that's what has me scratching my head about whether it's really that big of a deal.

Now, admittedly, I'm still a long way from filling up my drive with it being at only about 50%, but I've been finding the highest bitrate channels and recording them while playing back a third high bitrate recording with skips, FFs, and REWs, all without it seeming to skip a beat.

So what sort of problems should we anticipate if we gloss over alignment issues? Will excessive seeking due to data blocks not being physically aligned with the drive's own alignment be the weak link, causing it to wear out faster? Perhaps as the drive fills to 80% and more and fragmentation becomes more prevalent, the affect will be more obvious.

It'll be interesting to see.


----------



## tluxon

Uh-oh. I have a lineup discrepancy I was trying to correct by resetting it, and it's been stuck in the "(Preparing...)" mode for 20 minutes. This can't be good...

Never mind - it finally resumed progress and is now downloading the info. Still, I don't remember ever having such a long "preparing" step.

Edit: Wow, that took 90 minutes! Has anybody else experienced anything like this after a drive upgrade?


----------



## mattack

Only TivoHD can use jmfs. Series 3 OLED can't. Apparently jmfs was designed for Premieres, and only happens to work on TivoHD. Some partition differences or something.

I have no technical knowledge on this issue, but I think you're probably worrying over nothing. AFAIK, current drives are WAY faster than a Tivo needs, so there's no reason to care about alignment..


----------



## nooneuknow

mattack said:


> Only TivoHD can use jmfs. Series 3 OLED can't. Apparently jmfs was designed for Premieres, and only happens to work on TivoHD. Some partition differences or something.
> 
> I have no technical knowledge on this issue, but I think you're probably worrying over nothing. AFAIK, current drives are WAY faster than a Tivo needs, so there's no reason to care about alignment..


You are only half right.

You can use the GNU DD_Rescue software, that JMFS uses, to CLONE (Copy) ANY drive. It's available on the JMFS CD, as well as many other bootable "Rescue CD/DVD" compilations.

If it (JMFS) won't work in the guided/automated menus (because it looks for a recognizable TiVo partition map before giving you any further options), just drop down to command prompt and do the Copy (clone) from there.

Then, you'd use WinMFS (or maybe the bootable "MFS Live" CD) to finish up the rest. There also was a breakthrough made, where some software called iBored (or something like that) made things possible, that had long been dismissed as impossible to do with a TiVo S3 OLED.

EDIT: Sure, in a TiVo, even the drives that came factory installed, exceeded the performance required. However, there is reason to worry about 4K alignment. In a TiVo, it may not, necessarily, reduce the performance enough to notice, but the misalignment causes excess reads/writes/seeks, which gets worse as fragmentation occurs. This will theoretically shorten the life of the drive, compared to the life span the drive theoretically would have had, had it been aligned. The reason why I have to use the word "theoretically", is that nobody has done anything to prove this, yet. The general life-expectancy of a drive is ~3-5 years, and varies, depending on it's use, abuse, and environmental factors. I don't think that there are too many people, who have had a 4K, misaligned, drive in use long enough to see if the performance drops below acceptable levels, and/or experienced premature drive failure. Just because we use these drives, and they work fine, NOW, doesn't mean they are going to continue on that way, and for the same amount of time as either a true 512 byte sector drive, or a properly aligned/optimized 4K/512e drive. Only time will tell. Until then, "theoretically" is the word...


----------



## tluxon

c3 said:


> tluxon said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the moment, I'm not as down on the WD20EURS as I was 24 hours ago.
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps not writing to the unaligned media region 1 at the moment?
Click to expand...

Well, I'm afraid the honeymoon took a big nosedive in the last 24 hours.

I had recorded the last 9 hours of ESPNHD's Wimbledon coverage into 4 files and spent a lot of time fast-forwarding to segments I wanted to watch. Several times the FF'ing got very kludgy and twice the TiVo became unresponsive and rebooted itself. My conclusion is that the WD20EURS may be just fine for normal playback and skipping commercials, but it's not going to work for all the FF'ing I do.

I'm not sure how to proceed with this, but there's got to be a better option.

I have a Premiere (2-tuner) in the bedroom that I've been wanting to upgrade because it only has a 500 GB drive, but from what I've seen on here it has an OS that is not 4K aware as well, so I'm likely to run into the same problem with any drives that are available today (4K). Does anyone believe I would fare any better with a Premiere upgrade?

I do have a Seagate DB35.3 Certified Repaired 750GB drive that was a warranty replacement for my first failed DB35.3 drive from a couple years ago, but I've been hesitant to put it into service in a TiVo for what would probably be a shorter life than when it was new. However, it might be the only 512 B sector drive I have - and it IS a DVR drive. I would consider popping it into this TiVoHD and deal with reduced capacity so I can have responsiveness, but really only if it's the only way I can get better performance.

I'd gladly settle for merely a 1TB drive like the WD10EVDS I replaced the first failed DB35.3 with, because at least I know it's a 512 byte drive. I just don't have any idea where I'd find one.

Are there any ways we can manually force all Tivo partitions to be 4K aligned on an advanced format drive? It sure seems that Tivo has had to do it on the Premieres they ship with EURS drives. Can GParted do such a thing or are there command line methods for moving unaligned partitions into aligned positions? How does TiVo do it?


----------



## dlfl

tluxon said:


> .......
> I'd gladly settle for merely a 1TB drive like the WD10EVDS I replaced the first failed DB35.3 with, because at least I know it's a 512 byte drive. I just don't have any idea where I'd find one.
> ........


Even if you find one it may turn out to be Advanced Format. I wanted to buy another WD10EADS drive because of the good experience I've had with one for almost four years (so far). I was able to buy "new" ones (which did appear to be factory new) but they are now 4K instead of 512. They say "Advanced Format" on the label on the drive case.


----------



## nooneuknow

dlfl said:


> Even if you find one it may turn out to be Advanced Format. I wanted to buy another WD10EADS drive because of the good experience I've had with one for almost four years (so far). I was able to buy "new" ones (which did appear to be factory new) but they are now 4K instead of 512. They say "Advanced Format" on the label on the drive case.


I was going to warn him of the same thing. I lucked-out and received factory-recertified 512 byte sector WD20EADS drives, when I standard RMA'd a batch of the same model to WD.

I was going to sell those still-sealed replacements, but now think that they are well worth holding onto. I may even use them for my TiVos, and instead, sell-off the five WD20EURS drives I haven't opened yet.

I only own TiVo HDs and two-tuner model Premieres, neither of which were designed for 4K/512e drives...

It is possible to buy factory-recertified true 512 byte sector drives, but I think new ones are extinct.

What I wonder about, is if TiVo did something special with the two-tuner Premiere models, which have the 500GB drive in them. I had an opportunity to verify those drives ARE AF 4K/512e models, but not an opportunity to do anything more than read the label...


----------



## tluxon

I'm not figuring I'll ever be getting another 512 byte drive, so I'm hoping some way can be figured out to align the media partitions to the 4K boundaries. It may take a little trial and error sometime in the future, but it seems worth a shot to try the Linux fdisk method described in Novell's knowledgebase paper Partition alignment of drives with internal sector size larger than 512 bytes. If that can be done immediately after a truncated restore and then have the right filesystem put back in each shifted partition, I'm hopeful that it could work. I'm just not sure how the OS would handle the change in address of the shifted partitions. If it works, it would provide us an image that can be shared with anyone else caring about aligned partitions on their 4K drives.


nooneuknow said:


> What I wonder about, is if TiVo did something special with the two-tuner Premiere models, which have the 500GB drive in them. I had an opportunity to verify those drives ARE AF 4K/512e models, but not an opportunity to do anything more than read the label...


As for the Premiere (2-tuner), my wife mentioned that she's seen it reboot a couple times while she was watching it, so I might have a double reason to take it out to test and read the partition table with WinMFS. I'm really curious to see if TiVo actually bothers to align the partitions on it, because it seems to have similar hesitations in FF'ing shows as the THD with the WD20EURS in it. _Edit: I just went and played with it a bit and I take that back - it's as fast as the 512 byte drives were._


----------



## nooneuknow

tluxon said:


> I'm not figuring I'll ever be getting another 512 byte drive, so I'm hoping some way can be figured out to align the media partitions to the 4K boundaries. It may take a little trial and error sometime in the future, but it seems worth a shot to try the Linux fdisk method described in Novell's knowledgebase paper Partition alignment of drives with internal sector size larger than 512 bytes. If that can be done immediately after a truncated restore and then have the right filesystem put back in each shifted partition, I'm hopeful that it could work. I'm just not sure how the OS would handle the change in address of the shifted partitions. If it works, it would provide us an image that can be shared with anyone else caring about aligned partitions on their 4K drives.


I'm happy to see somebody as interested in this as I am. I just don't know enough about Linux, let alone the "tivoized" version of it, combined with the arcane/outdated/proprietary file system structure, to really do much about "fixing", or changing, the structure to produce an aligned, and optimized result that works.

Just taking a stock image, and tacking a ~1.7TB partition on the end isn't "optimized". Leaving 4K alignment out if the picture for a moment, one may also consider putting the partitions in a strategic layout, so the drive has to do the least amount of seeking, and shorter seeks. WinMFS did this quite well for the old TiVos it was designed for, with the drive sizes available at the time. But, it is now a very outdated utility. I'm hoping that the DVRBARS utility evolves into a utility/toolset that combines all the elements of all the existing tools/utilities, and makes them work well with current and future hardware/drives. TiVo is going to have to make some major changes in future products, if/when they break the 2TB barrier. As some have said, once they do that, all existing tools/utilities will become useless, as is.

EDIT/ADD: People have reported that they have taken drives from one model Premiere, installed it in another, and that the TiVo detected the software was wrong, then downloaded the correct software, and all worked well after the correct software was installed. So, what I'm wondering, now, is did the drive retain the partition map it had before the update? If so, there could be a very easy fix right under our noses. I only have 320GB two-tuner model Premieres. I wonder, if TiVo did align the 500GB version, if it could be cloned to a 2TB drive, put into a unit that came with a 320GB drive, get the correct software, and retain alignment... It's my understanding that using Windows 7 and DVRBARS, and virtual hard drives, that one could play around with this concept without as much effort as other ways...

I do realize that this discussion is going on in the Series 3/HD thread, but don't think all the Premiere talk takes away from the goal, which could lead to alignment and optimization for all TiVos.

EDIT/ADD: Come to think of it, the use of one model's partition structure, in order to increase capacity of another model was done before, with a forum member taking a HD XL image and gutting it of its identity, so that the image could be used on a non-XL HD, because it would download the correct software on it's maiden startup. The structure remained intact. However, distributing the image was frowned upon here, at the time, the person who made it didn't intend for it to get passed around, and the gutting process was just an experiment. It seemed most of the users of that image seemed to experience drive corruption later on down the road. I sure did. Nobody uses that method anymore. Maybe it is time to re-think that it was not a good option. Maybe it should be revisited, as a means to an end result, that doesn't become corrupt, and provides alignment and optimization...


----------



## 1283

Summary of my experiments of upgrading TiVoHD from its original 160GB drive to 2TB drive, regarding 4KB alignment.

1. WinMFS mfscopy and mfsadd with "optimized layout": 1 MFS media region unaligned, as discussed in previous messages.

2. WinMFS mfscopy and mfsadd with "unoptimized layout": multiple MFS regions unaligned. It rearranged all partitions based on the partition number. The original layout was NOT preserved. Don't bother.

3. "dd" and WinMFS mfsadd: Messed up the new partitions and crashed. Don't bother.

4. "dd" and MFSLive mfsadd: All MFS partitions are aligned. See attached picture.


----------



## nooneuknow

c3 said:


> Summary of my experiments of upgrading TiVoHD from its original 160GB drive to 2TB drive, regarding 4KB alignment.
> 1. WinMFS mfscopy and mfsadd with "optimized layout": 1 MFS media region unaligned, as discussed in previous messages.
> 2. WinMFS mfscopy and mfsadd with "unoptimized layout": multiple MFS regions unaligned. It rearranged all partitions based on the partition number. The original layout was NOT preserved. Don't bother.
> 3. "dd" and WinMFS mfsadd: Messed up the new partitions and crashed. Don't bother.
> 4. "dd" and MFSLive mfsadd: All MFS partitions are aligned. See attached picture.


That was always what I hated about WinMFS - It screwing with the offsets and layouts, even if you unselected the "optimized layout" option. You could never get an exact copy of the original layout, when imaging the drive from an image file. Maybe that worked best for Series 2 TiVos and the drive sizes available at the time (I wouldn't know).

So, do you have any ideas on how to properly "optimize" (not to be confused with 4K alignment, which is a separate matter) a 2TB drive, by splitting the media partitions into equal sizes and making the "sandwich" that WinMFS was designed to make for the equipment and drive sizes that were prevalent at the time the software was designed?

One thing that is not widely known, is that added partitions are "supposed to come in pairs". That statement/line has been reportedly found within the TiVo code, by a few people who dug into it. It must have been put into the code for a reason, and the creator of WinMFS tried to make sure that there were pairs. As of yet, nobody has proven that it actually matters. JMFS only adds one partition, consuming all the free space at the end of the drive.

Feel free to further regale us with what you know, and what you think about the questions, and possible solutions to issues, which have recently flared up. It's not often, when things like this come up, that there is anybody willing to take the time to share what they know, and others who want to dig in and try to find solutions. Look at how much one person (Comer) gave to all of us, with JMFS. Until he contributed, most had no choice, but to buy pre-imaged drives (for Premieres), where the cost of the pre-imaging generally exceeds the cost of the drive...


----------



## dlfl

Do we even know if the pre-imaged drives (DVR_DUDE, Weaknees.com) are 4K aligned? Apparently you can use a non-aligned drive without realizing there's a problem for quite a while.


----------



## dlfl

nooneuknow said:


> ........
> It is possible to buy factory-recertified true 512 byte sector drives.........


Can you tell us where, please?


----------



## ggieseke

nooneuknow said:


> I'm hoping that the DVRBARS utility evolves into a utility/toolset that combines all the elements of all the existing tools/utilities, and makes them work well with current and future hardware/drives. TiVo is going to have to make some major changes in future products, if/when they break the 2TB barrier. As some have said, once they do that, all existing tools/utilities will become useless, as is.


Me too.  I haven't touched the code since since patching a few things in the first week, but the obsession that made me write v1 is starting to come back.

To get 4K alignment right now I'd just take the 758 image, slap it on a WD20EURS, and see how it works in a 746 or 748. From several tests that jmbach has done it seems to download the correct image automatically even without forcing a KS52 (at least when going from a 746 to a 748). I will run the 758-748 test this morning and let you know how it goes.


----------



## ThAbtO

Last night, I got a WD10EZRX (think that was the exact model, can't remember unless I go look), restored a 540 WinMFS image and installed in the Tivo 540080. It didn't boot up, was sitting on the power up screen for 5 min. So I put the original drive back in and the power up screen only lasted for about 1 1/2 min before the few minutes screen.

I guess I need a way to get WDidle3 to run and it would take some work since this is the only computer with SATA port. I have not even burned an ultimate boot CD yet. I guess I would also need to burn a CD with WDidle3.

We are currently in a heat wave in California and would wait until it dies down before I attempt the WDidle3.


----------



## nooneuknow

dlfl said:


> Can you tell us where, please?


Newegg stocks them, when they are available. Fry's sells them as well, online only (but, the prices are EXTREME).

I do believe that WD may still directly sell them. However, it's my experience that you have to search by model, rather than go through the main products listings. The same goes for Newegg (search by model number).

Sometimes, the product designation will change from "discontinued", then return to that, once the supply is exhausted, until they are once again made available.


----------



## nooneuknow

dlfl said:


> Do we even know if the pre-imaged drives (DVR_DUDE, Weaknees.com) are 4K aligned? Apparently you can use a non-aligned drive without realizing there's a problem for quite a while.


In my opinion, they are not aligned, if you order for a model that would not have had a 4K aligned original drive. I bought 2TB drives for both the Premiere TCD746320 (2-tuner, 320GB), and the TiVo HD TCD652160, from DVR_DUDE. The factory partition tables for the Premiere remain exactly as they were on a stock drive, with all the extra space tacked onto the end of the drive, with a small apple_free partition, at the end of that (which I wonder what it is there for, or if it serves a necessary purpose I'm unaware of, other than an unusable placeholder, or if it is deliberate). The TiVo HD drive is giving me some difficulty in reading the partition map. I just ASSUME that if he doesn't align a Premiere drive, he doesn't align a TiVo HD drive. He also ships the drives with old TiVo factory-installed software revisions. This makes the shipping software for the HD, on his drives, non-2TB supporting, so it raises a lot of doubt for the HD. If the 2TB Premiere map (the stock portion) had been altered, in any way, I doubt that JMFS would recognize it, and let you use the guided menus, as opposed to having to drop to the command prompt to use dd_rescue, like the 2TB HD requires, if you want to clone/copy it.

I'll triple check, and make sure I'm not missing something, when I can free up the time and resources to take another look. Maybe just the stocks parts are misaligned, but the added space MIGHT be. I'll take another look.


----------



## nooneuknow

ggieseke said:


> Me too.  I haven't touched the code since since patching a few things in the first week, but the obsession that made me write v1 is starting to come back.
> 
> To get 4K alignment right now I'd just take the 758 image, slap it on a WD20EURS, and see how it works in a 746 or 748. From several tests that jmbach has done it seems to download the correct image automatically even without forcing a KS52 (at least when going from a 746 to a 748). I will run the 758-748 test this morning and let you know how it goes.


You are reading my mind, very well, I would say.

Basically, use an existing 4K aligned partition structure, with the software from one that wouldn't be. I can't wait to hear how your experiments turn out! :up:


----------



## ThAbtO

I just made the Ultimate Boot CD and tried it. Yet, I haven't figured out what drive spec is my CD/DVD drive is at (Usually its d: ).


----------



## dougdingle

tluxon said:


> Uh-oh. I have a lineup discrepancy I was trying to correct by resetting it, and it's been stuck in the "(Preparing...)" mode for 20 minutes. This can't be good...
> 
> Never mind - it finally resumed progress and is now downloading the info. Still, I don't remember ever having such a long "preparing" step.
> 
> Edit: Wow, that took 90 minutes! Has anybody else experienced anything like this after a drive upgrade?


Yes. Last drive change I did about two weeks ago took FOREVER to update the data. At least an hour, likely more, since I got bored and walked away.


----------



## jmbach

nooneuknow said:


> You are reading my mind, very well, I would say.
> 
> Basically, use an existing 4K aligned partition structure, with the software from one that wouldn't be. I can't wait to hear how your experiments turn out! :up:


I experimented with this several months back. It seems to work. The added benefit is that you can add an external TiVo expander drive.

Here is what I did.

Put 758 image on a 2TB drive and booted in the 748. Did a KS 52 to be on the safe side. Did its thing and booted up fine. Did not notice any loss of function.

Then I modified Block 0 to a 748 block. Booted and ran without problems.

Then I modified the APM by nulling out the data in the reserved sections of each block. (The 4 turner premieres have a modified APM that adds extra information in a reserved section of each block of the APM. I do not know the meaning of this. My supposition is that perhaps TiVo is making the move to drives larger than 2TB while still maintaining the basic OS setup.) Booted and ran without problems.

Then I copied the root, kernel, and var partitions over from my 1 TB 748 drive to this 2tb drive. Again, it booted and ran just fine.

My testing was limited to running through the menus, changing channels, and trying a recording. Did not test any apps or anything else.

Would be interested if ggieseke experience is similar.


----------



## nooneuknow

jmbach said:


> I experimented with this several months back. It seems to work. The added benefit is that you can add an external TiVo expander drive.
> Here is what I did.
> Put 758 image on a 2TB drive and booted in the 748. Did a KS 52 to be on the safe side. Did its thing and booted up fine. Did not notice any loss of function.
> Then I modified Block 0 to a 748 block. Booted and ran without problems.
> Then I modified the APM by nulling out the data in the reserved sections of each block. (The 4 turner premieres have a modified APM that adds extra information in a reserved section of each block of the APM. I do not know the meaning of this. My supposition is that perhaps TiVo is making the move to drives larger than 2TB while still maintaining the basic OS setup.) Booted and ran without problems.
> Then I copied the root, kernel, and var partitions over from my 1 TB 748 drive to this 2tb drive. Again, it booted and ran just fine.
> My testing was limited to running through the menus, changing channels, and trying a recording. Did not test any apps or anything else.
> Would be interested if ggieseke experience is similar.


Cool. I only wish I had to knowledge to do the editing/nullifying that you did. I'm looking to do this on 746 units (I don't have any Premieres other than TCD746320 models). I'm willing to contribute in any way I can, or am capable of. Anything I can do to help?

I'd like to PM over the partition structures of the 2TB drives for the Premiere TCD746320 and HD TCD652160, I bought from DVR_DUDE (I'm not going to do it publicly). What would be the best way for me to read the maps, and pipe/re-direct the output to a text file I can provide?


----------



## tluxon

I have a warranty replacement re-certified HGST (Hitachi) 1TB drive that has 512 byte sectors (mfd early 2010). It's a HDS721010CLA332 (7200 RPM, 32MB Cache, 512 byte sectors) that was sent as a replacement drive for a failed WHSv1 drive. It's not really designed for use as an audio-video drive, but I'm very curious to see if it wouldn't be a better 'transition' drive for until I learn more about the possibility of using a 2TB drive with 4K-aligned media partitions.

As I see it, the problem with putting all my eggs in the 2TB basket now is that if a method is devised to properly align the partitions, it will almost certainly preclude 'upgrading' an unaligned 2TB drive due to having to move some of the partitions *up* in address. For that reason, I think it's reasonable to limit any upgrades to sub-2TB drives unless loss of recorded shows during an upgrade is acceptable.

Speaking of loss of recorded shows - can unflagged (copy-freely) shows be saved off of a retired TiVo drive to a Linux computer? Or is everything encrypted with an unknown/unusable key?


----------



## lpwcomp

tluxon said:


> Speaking of loss of recorded shows - can unflagged (copy-freely) shows be saved off of a retired TiVo drive to a Linux computer? Or is everything encrypted with an unknown/unusable key?


If you're asking if recordings can be extracted from a TiVo drive attached to your computer, the answer is no.


----------



## tluxon

I went ahead and swapped out the in-use-1-week WD20EURS for the 1TB Hitachi with the 512 byte sectors this morning, so tonight I'll see if I can notice any difference in how well it handles a couple high bitrate buffers while watching a third high bitrate recording with a lot of FF'ing and REW'ing.


lpwcomp said:


> If you're asking if recordings can be extracted from a TiVo drive attached to your computer, the answer is no.


Do you know if that's due to encryption of the media partitions, the individual files, both, or some other reason?

I'm curious because I haven't yet discovered if the upgrade utilities we're using are just doing a bit-for-bit copy of the source drive or if there was any partition-by-partition copying being done.

Also, if I'm going to experiment with various drives with regards to the 4K alignment issue, there may be occasions when I have more new recordings I want to preserve than can be transferred normally to other TiVos in a timely manner. If we know enough about the filesystem to be successfully copying partitions and hopefully being able to 'move' them into 4K alignment, I figured there would be some way of parsing out some of the data.


----------



## nooneuknow

tluxon said:


> I'm curious because I haven't yet discovered if the upgrade utilities we're using are just doing a bit-for-bit copy of the source drive or if there was any partition-by-partition copying being done.
> 
> Also, if I'm going to experiment with various drives with regards to the 4K alignment issue, there may be occasions when I have more new recordings I want to preserve than can be transferred normally to other TiVos in a timely manner. If we know enough about the filesystem to be successfully copying partitions and hopefully being able to 'move' them into 4K alignment, I figured there would be some way of parsing out some of the data.


I've seen reports of people ONLY copying certain partitions, but they were system-related ones, for the purpose of reviving a corrupted system.

As far as any media/recordings:
If you can't copy it to another TiVo or computer over the NETWORK, kiss it goodbye. While people have done things to much older TiVo models, in order to save protected recordings, that topic is not to be discussed on these forums. Even if I knew a way, which I don't, I couldn't mention it here, or give you any suggestions on what to try.

If you do find a way, I wouldn't suggest telling anybody, here, unless it's through a private email, or the other forum which we are prohibited from linking to, or even typing out the full name of.

As far as your potential hard drive: You had better check the current draw ratings, and compare it to a stock drive, or a green 2TB model. If it draws too much current, or requires a lot to spin-up, you could stress the power supply. This is the biggest reason most people don't use 7200RPM drives in their TiVos. The second part is the amount of heat a 7200RPM generates, and the TiVo's limited ability to cool the drive, thus stressing the drive.


----------



## tluxon

nooneuknow said:


> ...
> As far as your potential hard drive: You had better check the current draw ratings, and compare it to a stock drive, or a green 2TB model. If it draws too much current, or requires a lot to spin-up, you could stress the power supply. This is the biggest reason most people don't use 7200RPM drives in their TiVos. The second part is the amount of heat a 7200RPM generates, and the TiVo's limited ability to cool the drive, thus stressing the drive.


I forgot about the power draw factor. The Hitachi seemed to start up quickly this morning, but I had to head to work before I really did anything with it.

That puts a whole new perspective on things. I know the Hitachi got pretty warm in the Windows Home Server, and that was with a slow speed fan moving air directly across it. Now I'm concerned for the power supply in the TiVo, and even moreso now that we're having very warm weather today. I'm thinking that the advantage of positioning myself for a future 4K alignment solution is trumped by my concern for the longevity of the power supply.

Would you agree? Would you stick the WD20EURS back in rather than the Hitachi 7200 - even with the difference of a 512 byte sector drive?

Hmmm...


----------



## ggieseke

nooneuknow said:


> You are reading my mind, very well, I would say.
> 
> Basically, use an existing 4K aligned partition structure, with the software from one that wouldn't be. I can't wait to hear how your experiments turn out! :up:


So far so good. I took a WD20EURS that I had previously zeroed, did a DvrBARS quick restore of the 758 image, and dropped it in the 748.

It upgraded itself to the right software without a KS52, and surprisingly it didn't even need a C&DE. I guess that since the 758 image was taken from a drive that had never been booted it may not need that step.

When I get a chance later in the week I'm going to extract the ext2 & MFS partitions to my PC and compare them to the the 748 files.


----------



## nooneuknow

tluxon said:


> I forgot about the power draw factor. The Hitachi seemed to start up quickly this morning, but I had to head to work before I really did anything with it.
> 
> That puts a whole new perspective on things. I know the Hitachi got pretty warm in the Windows Home Server, and that was with a slow speed fan moving air directly across it. Now I'm concerned for the power supply in the TiVo, and even moreso now that we're having very warm weather today. I'm thinking that the advantage of positioning myself for a future 4K alignment solution is trumped by my concern for the longevity of the power supply.
> 
> Would you agree? Would you stick the WD20EURS back in rather than the Hitachi 7200 - even with the difference of a 512 byte sector drive?
> 
> Hmmm...


Well, it's a judgment call that's hard to advise upon, without knowing the spin-up and running power requirements of the potential drive. I also don't know how much power capacity is left for wiggle room (for the drive), once the draw of the other components is factored in. I've heard of people exceeding the capacity upon installation of a cablecard, as they were just within the boundaries before adding that load (which, can be diminished if the power supply output capacitors are near end-of-life). I'd definitely do a visual inspection for leaking, or bulging caps, at minimum. Then, I'd take a close look at the specifications for the drive's requirements.

Then there's the heat-dissipation requirements of the drive. Hot drive equals shorter drive life. As for the heat that it generates passing over everything else before it exits the fan, you'd be able to do a comparison of running temps of the processor from the system information screen, as well as the fan speed possibly kicking into high, as it is designed to do. If the fan speed tends to stay high, that would indicate you're pushing things.

EDIT/ADD: I usually do a before-and-after comparison of the output voltages of the power supply. As long as the voltages don't drop too far (some would say that a maximum of ~20% variation of each voltage is acceptable, overall), I'd proceed and see what happens. The output voltages and amperage ratings are printed on the power supply board, or are on a sticker wrapped around the biggest capacitor, on the input side of it. Just be careful, since the heatsinks tend to be live, and resting your hand on the case, while probing can jolt you, if you touch a heatsink.


----------



## 1283

My parents' laptop died a couple of days ago. I don't think it was a coincidence that it happened on one of the hottest days here. Heat, noise, and power supply concerns are all good reasons NOT to put in a 7200RPM drive. I have not bought 7200RPM drives even for desktop use since the first WD Green drive came out.

For TiVoHD, 4KB alignment can be easily achieved with dd of the original 160GB drive and mfstool mfsadd. dd takes less than an hour with SATA connections.


----------



## tluxon

nooneuknow said:


> Well, it's a judgment call that's hard to advise upon, without knowing the spin-up and running power requirements of the potential drive. I also don't know how much power capacity is left for wiggle room (for the drive), once the draw of the other components is factored in. I've heard of people exceeding the capacity upon installation of a cablecard, as they were just within the boundaries before adding that load (which, can be diminished if the power supply output capacitors are near end-of-life). I'd definitely do a visual inspection for leaking, or bulging caps, at minimum. Then, I'd take a close look at the specifications for the drive's requirements.
> 
> Then there's the heat-dissipation requirements of the drive. Hot drive equals shorter drive life. As for the heat that it generates passing over everything else before it exits the fan, you'd be able to do a comparison of running temps of the processor from the system information screen, as well as the fan speed possibly kicking into high, as it is designed to do. If the fan speed tends to stay high, that would indicate you're pushing things.


All things considered, I called home and had that TiVo shut down until I can get home to take another look at it.

When I put the WD20EURS in it a week ago, my son (who's the real electronics guru of the house) and I took a really close look at all the capacitors and didn't see any bulging or any other warning signs. Unfortunately, I switched drives so quickly this morning due to running a little behind schedule that I forgot to take a look at them again. I'll compare the startup power requirements of both drives if I can find them, but I suspect the Hitachi will be more demanding. If it is, I won't even mess around with it in the TiVo - especially since it hasn't been geared for DVR-type usage.



> EDIT/ADD: I usually do a before-and-after comparison of the output voltages of the power supply. As long as the voltages don't drop too far (some would say that a maximum of ~20% variation of each voltage is acceptable, overall), I'd proceed and see what happens. The output voltages and amperage ratings are printed on the power supply board, or are on a sticker wrapped around the biggest capacitor, on the input side of it. Just be careful, since the heatsinks tend to be live, and resting your hand on the case, while probing can jolt you, if you touch a heatsink.


If I decide to give the Hitachi a chance, I'll check the voltage drop against that of the WD20EURS, but I'm leaning toward just sticking the WD20EURS back in and going with that, since I'll have almost zero time to babysit the TiVo until next week.


----------



## tluxon

tluxon said:


> All things considered, I called home and had that TiVo shut down until I can get home to take another look at it.
> 
> When I put the WD20EURS in it a week ago, my son (who's the real electronics guru of the house) and I took a really close look at all the capacitors and didn't see any bulging or any other warning signs. Unfortunately, I switched drives so quickly this morning due to running a little behind schedule that I forgot to take a look at them again. I'll compare the startup power requirements of both drives if I can find them, but I suspect the Hitachi will be more demanding. If it is, I won't even mess around with it in the TiVo - especially since it hasn't been geared for DVR-type usage.
> 
> If I decide to give the Hitachi a chance, I'll check the voltage drop against that of the WD20EURS, but I'm leaning toward just sticking the WD20EURS back in and going with that, since I'll have almost zero time to babysit the TiVo until next week.


Well, I was able to find some power requirement specs for the Hitachi, and it doesn't look as bad as I imagined. In fact, it looks far better than the Seagate DB35.3 drive I had been using for over 5 years.

*Seagate DB35.3 (750GB)* - from http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/ds_db35_7200_3.pdf
Startup Current (12 V typical, amps): 2.0
Idle Average (watts): 9.3
Standby/Sleep Mode (typical, watts): 0.8

*Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000.C (1TB)* - from http://www.hgst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/33586ADC145D59A086257603007B022E/$file/DS7K1000.C_DS_final.pdf
Startup current (A, max.): 1.5 (+5V), 2.0 (+12V)
Idle (W) 1TB: 4.4

*Western Digital WD20EARS (2TB)* - from http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/library/SpecSheet/ENG/2879-701250.pdf
Average power requirements (Watts)
Read/Write: 4.4
Idle: 4.1
Standby/Sleep: 0.6

I wasn't able to find a startup current spec for the WD20EURS, but based on the other specs, I would expect it to be in the neighborhood of the Hitachi startup draw, or slightly less. I think the fact that the THD's power supply was driving the DB35.3 for over 5 years without apparent issue speaks well for it's prospects of running either the Hitachi or the WD20EURS. I guess I should start it back up and see how it performs with several high bitrate sources.


----------



## ThAbtO

Late night, I tried to get the WD10EZRX hooked up to run WDidle3.

My computer currently has 2 HDDs attached to SATA0 and via a HDD dock through SATA1. Booted up with WD10EZRX in the dock and windows HDD disconnected and using the Ultimate Boot CD. I found the UBcd has WDidle3 with it

The idle timer was originally set for 12 seconds, and now successfully disabled.

After that, removed the drive from the bay and replaced it with what I had, and reconnected the Windows drive. However, upon boot, computer complained of disk boot failure. After trying to figure out how to fix it, in Cmos, etc. in the end, I figured to just boot with the Windows drive and nothing in the dock bay.

Next time, I will endeavor to install the new drive into the Tivo 540080. Previous install just got me stuck at the powering up screen.

Edit: After the WDIdle3 worked and drive installed, had to go through guided setup twice with CD&E in between. 2 hours later, I now have 1268 hrs 31 min. I noticed while it was running CD&E, the red light in front was flashing, it was completed in about 20 min.


----------



## unitron

The WinMFS "optimized layout" has nothing to do with 512 versus 4k.

If you look at a Series 1 partition map, all the MFS media partitions are at the end of the drive after everything else.

Starting with the S2s, they moved one of the media partitions to the front, right behind the partition map, so that when the heads were over the operating system partitions, or the swap or whatever, they were in the middle and could get to either media partition by traveling only over half of the disk instead of all the way from front to back.

That's the "optimized layout", which you probably don't want to use on a Series 1 for fear of confusing it, and do want to use on everything newer, but like I say, it has nothing to do with sector size.


----------



## nooneuknow

unitron said:


> The WinMFS "optimized layout" has nothing to do with 512 versus 4k.
> If you look at a Series 1 partition map, all the MFS media partitions are at the end of the drive after everything else.
> Starting with the S2s, they moved one of the media partitions to the front, right behind the partition map, so that when the heads were over the operating system partitions, or the swap or whatever, they were in the middle and could get to either media partition by traveling only over half of the disk instead of all the way from front to back.
> That's the "optimized layout", which you probably don't want to use on a Series 1 for fear of confusing it, and do want to use on everything newer, but like I say, it has nothing to do with sector size.


Was this in response to somebody in particular? You didn't quote anybody.

I'm fully aware that a TiVo WinMFS "optimized partition layout" has nothing to do with 4K/512e alignment. I'd still like to see upgrade options that provide both types of "optimizations".

Some drive and software companies interchange the terms "aligned" and "optimized", when referring to the 4K/512e partition alignment. The use of the term "optimized" really only causes confusion with TiVo models that can be cloned/copied, and/or expanded, with WinMFS and when the matter of the drive sizes available at the time WinMFS was released, which were hard 512 byte sector size, is factored in.

AFAIK, WinMFS really lays out the partitions for a S2, un-optimized, or optimized, and just happens to also work with S3/HD units, which is why it tends to mess up the partitions, no matter what method of layout you choose, and "optimized" may really only be so, if you are using it on a S2 unit.

Like others have said, it's best to use DD, DD_RESCUE, JMFS, or other equivalent sector-by-sector cloning/copying utility, then use MFSadd to add the extra space. That way, WinMFS will leave the stock partitions alone.

AFAIK, using WinMFS on a S3/HD TiVo, is much like how you can use JMFS on a S3/HD, but it was designed for a Premiere (kind of reverse interoperability factor, though).

EDIT/ADD: I realized after typing this all out, that the S3 has some differences and can not always be lumped in with HD units, like I did repeatedly by saying "S3/HD". Example: JMFS does not recognize a S3 drive, but does recognize a HD drive, as being a TiVo drive, allowing you to use the guided menus of JMFS. With the S3, you'd have to drop to command line, and do it the non-menu guided way, with dd_rescue. I know there's some tricks that have been discovered to do things with S3 drives, that were thought impossible. But, all I know is that one of them involves intimate knowledge, and a tool called "iBored".


----------



## wood252ota

I have a tivo HD with a wd10evds upgrade. The drive is starting to fail, so I'm about to replace it with a wd10eurx. I would like to preserve my programs on the wd10evds. After reading through this thread, I'm confused if I should use winMFS or jmfs. I thought winMFS was for HD's and jmfs was for Premieres. At least that is the way I've been doing it when I upgrade my HD and Premiere Tivos. Is winMFS still the way to go with a HD ?
Thanks for the help


----------



## mattack

jmfs was designed for Premieres, but "happens" to work on Tivo HDs..

I've never used WinMFS (I don't have a Windows machine), but jmfs is a simplified way of upgrading, IMHO. Basically, it's a nice interface on top of the existing command line tools, I think.


----------



## lpwcomp

wood252ota said:


> I have a tivo HD with a wd10evds upgrade. The drive is starting to fail, so I'm about to replace it with a wd10eurx. I would like to preserve my programs on the wd10evds. After reading through this thread, I'm confused if I should use winMFS or jmfs. I thought winMFS was for HD's and jmfs was for Premieres. At least that is the way I've been doing it when I upgrade my HD and Premiere Tivos. Is winMFS still the way to go with a HD ?
> Thanks for the help


Since you're not really upgrading, simply replacing a failing drive with one which is more than likely exactly the same size, you just need to use ddrescue, a standard linux command (it is on the JMFS boot disk) to make an exact copy of the drive.


----------



## ThAbtO

wood252ota said:


> I have a tivo HD with a wd10evds upgrade. The drive is starting to fail, so I'm about to replace it with a wd10eurx. I would like to preserve my programs on the wd10evds. After reading through this thread, I'm confused if I should use winMFS or jmfs. I thought winMFS was for HD's and jmfs was for Premieres. At least that is the way I've been doing it when I upgrade my HD and Premiere Tivos. Is winMFS still the way to go with a HD ?
> Thanks for the help


JMFS works with any Tivo even Premieres, it only does a drive to drive copy, no backups.
WinMFS does not work on Premieres.
You can also look at a newly developed, DVRBars, it does backups of nearly all Tivos including Premiere and it does not do drive to drive copy (yet).


----------



## unitron

ThAbtO said:


> JMFS works with any Tivo even Premieres, it only does a drive to drive copy, no backups.
> WinMFS does not work on Premieres.
> You can also look at a newly developed, DVRBars, it does backups of nearly all Tivos including Premiere and it does not do drive to drive copy (yet).


jmfs will not recognize anything older than an S3 HD drive as a TiVo drive, so original S3s, S2s, and S1s cannot use it.


----------



## bareyb

Is there any program that will make a backup of my TIVo (S3 OLED) Hard Drive without me having to remove the Hard Drive? I'd love to have one just in case. It doesn't even need to have the actual Shows. Just the OS and personal settings for the Cable Co.


----------



## nooneuknow

unitron said:


> jmfs will not recognize anything older than an S3 HD drive as a TiVo drive, so original S3s, S2s, and S1s cannot use it.


But, you can still boot with it, then drop to the command line and manually use dd_rescue. As long as you know how to, or do your research first on "GNU dd_rescue".


----------



## tluxon

wood252ota said:


> I have a tivo HD with a wd10evds upgrade. The drive is starting to fail, so I'm about to replace it with a wd10eurx. I would like to preserve my programs on the wd10evds. After reading through this thread, I'm confused if I should use winMFS or jmfs. I thought winMFS was for HD's and jmfs was for Premieres. At least that is the way I've been doing it when I upgrade my HD and Premiere Tivos. Is winMFS still the way to go with a HD ?
> Thanks for the help


If the drive is starting to fail and you want to preserve your programs, I prefer the way JMFS does the copy. If you go to a larger drive, use JMFS for the copy and WinMFS for the expand and supersize (if it isn't already and you'd like the extra space).


----------



## tluxon

bareyb said:


> Is there any program that will make a backup of my TIVo (S3 OLED) Hard Drive without me having to remove the Hard Drive? I'd love to have one just in case. It doesn't even need to have the actual Shows. Just the OS and personal settings for the Cable Co.


I believe it's technically possible, but not in a way that can be discussed here.


----------



## A J Ricaud

Newegg has WD Green WD20EZRX 2TB IntelliPower 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drives on sale for $84.99 for 72 hrs:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...213-Index-_-InternalHardDrives-_-22236404-L0B

Use Promo Code EMCXNWV22 for the discount.


----------



## ggieseke

tluxon said:


> I believe it's technically possible, but not in a way that can be discussed here.


I haven't been to the "other" site lately, but as a programmer involved in writing TiVo backup software I'd love a hint. At this point I can't imagine a way to pull off a backup without cracking the case and hooking the drive up to a separate computer of some kind.


----------



## bareyb

ggieseke said:


> I haven't been to the "other" site lately, but as a programmer involved in writing TiVo backup software I'd love a hint. At this point I can't imagine a way to pull off a backup without cracking the case and hooking the drive up to a separate computer of some kind.


It's been a couple of years since I pulled a hard drive out of a TiVo. What's the easiest method to get a simple backup now? Is there a way to do it on Mac OS yet or does one still need a Windows Variant?


----------



## mattack

bareyb said:


> It's been a couple of years since I pulled a hard drive out of a TiVo. What's the easiest method to get a simple backup now? Is there a way to do it on Mac OS yet or does one still need a Windows Variant?


I sure thought that whatever Linux CLI tools used to make a backup have also been compiled on Macs.. I think I even did it a few years ago.. I'm even more sure that I did a S3 upgrade on a Mac with Mac compiled tools.

Of course you can use MAC HARDWARE and boot from the Linux CD, e.g. jmfs for TivoHD/Premiere upgrades.. or the Linux boot CD.. Just make sure you know where your hard drives are in Linux!!


----------



## bareyb

mattack said:


> I sure thought that whatever Linux CLI tools used to make a backup have also been compiled on Macs.. I think I even did it a few years ago.. I'm even more sure that I did a S3 upgrade on a Mac with Mac compiled tools.
> 
> Of course you can use MAC HARDWARE and boot from the Linux CD, e.g. jmfs for TivoHD/Premiere upgrades.. or the Linux boot CD.. Just make sure you know where your hard drives are in Linux!!


Hey... You live in Sunnyvale right? I'm in Cupertino. Think I could talk you into helping me do it some time? There's a couple cases of beer in it for you (or Pizzas if you prefer). No pressure, but it would sure be nice to have someone here who has actually done it recently.

We only have Macs here now and I don't have Windows installed on any of our Macs. So you may need to bring your laptop too.


----------



## tluxon

ggieseke said:


> I haven't been to the "other" site lately, but as a programmer involved in writing TiVo backup software I'd love a hint. At this point I can't imagine a way to pull off a backup without cracking the case and hooking the drive up to a separate computer of some kind.


I'm not certain it's possible, but I don't know for sure that it's not possible, either.

I imagine TiVo's own developers/programmers must've required a remote client service installed on the OS. It may be more secure than Fort Knox, but if it's there at all, 'they' at least probably have the ability to read all of the disk remotely - making a remote backup possible.

Whether or not such a capability could ever be tapped by anyone else would be a major hurdle by itself. If there is no such service already installed, any hope of success would certainly rely on installing one, which is probably not possible.

No matter what, it's gotta be much simpler to just pull the drive and do the backup that way.


----------



## nooneuknow

tluxon said:


> I'm not certain it's possible, but I don't know for sure that it's not possible, either.
> 
> I imagine TiVo's own developers/programmers must've required a remote client service installed on the OS. It may be more secure than Fort Knox, but if it's there at all, 'they' at least probably have the ability to read all of the disk remotely - making a remote backup possible.
> 
> Whether or not such a capability could ever be tapped by anyone else would be a major hurdle by itself. If there is no such service already installed, any hope of success would certainly rely on installing one, which is probably not possible.
> 
> No matter what, it's gotta be much simpler to just pull the drive and do the backup that way.


I can't say how I know. But I do know, for fact, that TiVo can take a drive that has been pulled from a TiVo, shipped into them, and extract/decode the recordings in their "lab". But, I'm sure we all know that they can. The question is can we replicate that. That question is a slippery slope on here. Any discussion of hacking or decrypting content that was intended to remain encrypted, outside of normal use, or means made available by TiVo to us, could be considered discussing something along the lines of unprotecting protected content. Don't discuss it here. Take that kind of discussion over to d****d***b***dot com instead.

If that's not the aim, well, no harm, no foul...


----------



## wood252ota

just to let people know how the story ended, I put both drives in my PC and booted up the jmfs CD. I selected the "Copy" menu option. It said it was about to copy 1TB of data from my wd10evds to my wd10eurx drive. 9 hours later it was done and I exited the program (no expand or supersize was done). Put the wd10eurx in my tivo and everything was there and working (so far, knock on wood .
Thanks to all for help and advice


----------



## jrmstr33

ggieseke said:


> So far so good. I took a WD20EURS that I had previously zeroed, did a DvrBARS quick restore of the 758 image, and dropped it in the 748.
> 
> It upgraded itself to the right software without a KS52, and surprisingly it didn't even need a C&DE. I guess that since the 758 image was taken from a drive that had never been booted it may not need that step.
> 
> When I get a chance later in the week I'm going to extract the ext2 & MFS partitions to my PC and compare them to the the 748 files.


ggieseke: Quick question as I plan on setting up a new WD20EURS for a used S3 (TCD648250B). I pulled down the WinMFS image from unitron and have the new drive coming tomorrow (the S3 arrives on Wed). Since I don't have any recordings that I need to transfer from the drive that is coming in the S3, are there any precautions I have to take when "restoring" the image to the new 2TB drive? Three questions specifically:

1) When "restoring" using WinMFS, do I need to change the default "swap size?" mfslive.org/winmfs/images/mfsrestore.jpg

2) Should I press YES or NO to "do you want to expand?" I plan on running MfsAdd and MfsSupersize afterwards.

3) Do I have to worry about any of the additional iBored steps Lussie wrote about here: tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9168233#post9168233

Thanks so much in advance!


----------



## jmbach

You do not have to use iBored for anything. When I expanded mine I said to to expand after copy. I did use a larger swap size but there is no evidence that it makes much of a difference on an S3. Most people usually feel that it won't hurt and can only help. I used 1024mb while others 512mb. FWIW, the 2TB premiere XL4 drives only use 128mb. I did use an optimized partition layout. When using MFSAdd make sure you answer correctly to not limit the expansion size to 1TB.


----------



## jrmstr33

jmbach said:


> You do not have to use iBored for anything. When I expanded mine I said to to expand after copy. I did use a larger swap size but there is no evidence that it makes much of a difference on an S3. Most people usually feel that it won't hurt and can only help. I used 1024mb while others 512mb. FWIW, the 2TB premiere XL4 drives only use 128mb. I did use an optimized partition layout. When using MFSAdd make sure you answer correctly to not limit the expansion size to 1TB.


Thanks jmbach! Looks like I'll try cloning the 1Tb drive first to avoid having to deal with error 51 when using someone else's image.


----------



## Sevenfeet

Another day, another broken S3 OLED Tivo. After having it pulled from the rack weeks ago I finally cracked it open, and yup, a bad C701 capacitor. I've previously repaired my Mitsubishi TV years ago with bad caps so I think I can do this pretty easily. I've ordered the parts and we'll see how it goes.


----------



## keenanSR

Never getting passed the "Welcome, Powering Up..." screen indicates failed HDD correct?

Thanks

Also, it's been many years since I installed the current drive, what's the best available model number to use now?

Thanks again.


----------



## ThAbtO

keenanSR said:


> Never getting passed the "Welcome, Powering Up..." screen indicates failed HDD correct?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Also, it's been many years since I installed the current drive, what's the best available model number to use now?
> 
> Thanks again.


What drive are you using to what model Tivo? If it is a Western Digital drive. you may need to run WDidle3.exe /D

Also the software on the drive needs to match the model Tivo, (TCDxxx)


----------



## keenanSR

ThAbtO said:


> What drive are you using to what model Tivo? If it is a Western Digital drive. you may need to run WDidle3.exe /D
> 
> Also the software on the drive needs to match the model Tivo, (TCDxxx)


I'll have to open it up to see the specific model of HDD, it was installed around a year after the Series 3( TCD648250B) was first released, probably one of the WD's listed in the original post of this thread, a 1TB model. I've been away from home about a week and came home and saw the problem, I'll open it later this evening, if that is truly what is wrong.

I do have the original(factory installed) drive and I also have a backup of the original drive on a computer.

To be clear, it is a failed HDD? Seems to me that was an indicator, failing to get passed that screen.

I know I'll have to do some research, I've always followed this thread but since everything had been working fine it was pretty much just background interest. I do realize that some drives are more finicky than others nowadays and I'm not looking to expand it beyond the 1TB capacity that's currently in the machine.

I'll have to research that command you've noted in your response, is that something I can try on the existing drive to recover it, or to prepare a new drive?

Thanks again.


----------



## ThAbtO

keenanSR said:


> To be clear, it is a failed HDD? Seems to me that was an indicator, failing to get passed that screen.


If it was a new drive, then the previous post about WDidle3 may need to be run. WDidle is used to set the auto-park feature on Western Digital drives only.

If its an old drive, its possible to have failed, or the power supply problem, just to name a few.


----------



## keenanSR

ThAbtO said:


> If it was a new drive, then the previous post about WDidle3 may need to be run. WDidle is used to set the auto-park feature on Western Digital drives only.
> 
> If its an old drive, its possible to have failed, or the power supply problem, just to name a few.


Thought about the power supply, what would be the best indicator?


----------



## ThAbtO

keenanSR said:


> Thought about the power supply, what would be the best indicator?


I'm no expert, but you can open it up and look at the capacitors for bulging or leaks.


----------



## keenanSR

ThAbtO said:


> I'm no expert, but you can open it up and look at the capacitors for bulging or leaks.


Yes, I remember reading that. I'll have to pop the cover and see what things look like. Just so I understand, the fan will still spin with a suspect power supply? A bad power supply is intermittent voltage and/or incorrect voltage to the HDD?

The drive is a WD 10EVVS.

Also now the fan doesn't even turn and the unit appears to be completely dead. I looked at the power supply and there doesn't seem to be anything out of order, the largest cap has a very slight bulge on the top, but that's about it.

Is there a thread here that focuses on power supply issue? I did a search but it only returned a few isolated threads.

Just looked at this thread here and the suspect cap I mentioned above looks exactly like the bad one in the photo so I'm leaning toward a bad power supply.

I realize this thread is focused on increasing storage so if someone could direct me to a thread that might give me some ideas on how to move forward that would be great.

Thanks


----------



## unitron

keenanSR said:


> Yes, I remember reading that. I'll have to pop the cover and see what things look like. Just so I understand, the fan will still spin with a suspect power supply? A bad power supply is intermittent voltage and/or incorrect voltage to the HDD?
> 
> The drive is a WD 10EVVS.
> 
> Also now the fan doesn't even turn and the unit appears to be completely dead. I looked at the power supply and there doesn't seem to be anything out of order, the largest cap has a very slight bulge on the top, but that's about it.
> 
> Is there a thread here that focuses on power supply issue? I did a search but it only returned a few isolated threads.
> 
> Just looked at this thread here and the suspect cap I mentioned above looks exactly like the bad one in the photo so I'm leaning toward a bad power supply.
> 
> I realize this thread is focused on increasing storage so if someone could direct me to a thread that might give me some ideas on how to move forward that would be great.
> 
> Thanks


Go here

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/index.php?

click on the search tab at the top of the page and put capacitor into the text box.

That'll provide you with plenty of reading.

There's one thread with the term "bad capacitors" in the title that should have most of the info you need.

Repairing your power supply may not solve your problem, but it has to be eliminated as a possible source first, or any other troubleshooting efforts are a waste of time.


----------



## keenanSR

unitron said:


> Go here
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/index.php?
> 
> click on the search tab at the top of the page and put capacitor into the text box.
> 
> That'll provide you with plenty of reading.
> 
> There's one thread with the term "bad capacitors" in the title that should have most of the info you need.
> 
> Repairing your power supply may not solve your problem, but it has to be eliminated as a possible source first, or any other troubleshooting efforts are a waste of time.


Thanks, I did do some searching late last night and came across several of those threads and I'm pretty sure at this point the PS is at the very least suspect - absolutely no power/no activity/no lights when the power cord is plugged in now - and as you note, it needs to be eliminated as a problem cause before continuing. I'm leaning heavily towards the Weaknees exchange, looked at Ebay but figured I could easily end up with someone elses failing PS if I bought a used S3. I'm not proficient enough to do any re-soldering myself so replacing the offending caps is not really an option, and in my area I don't know of anywhere that would do that sort of work.


----------



## ThAbtO

keenanSR said:


> Thanks, I did do some searching late last night and came across several of those threads and I'm pretty sure at this point the PS is at the very least suspect - absolutely no power/no activity/no lights when the power cord is plugged in now - and as you note, it needs to be eliminated as a problem cause before continuing. I'm leaning heavily towards the Weaknees exchange, looked at Ebay but figured I could easily end up with someone elses failing PS if I bought a used S3. I'm not proficient enough to do any re-soldering myself so replacing the offending caps is not really an option, and in my area I don't know of anywhere that would do that sort of work.


You could look in the yellow pages for TV/VCR Repair or electronics/computer repair.


----------



## dianebrat

keenanSR said:


> Thanks, I did do some searching late last night and came across several of those threads and I'm pretty sure at this point the PS is at the very least suspect - absolutely no power/no activity/no lights when the power cord is plugged in now - and as you note, it needs to be eliminated as a problem cause before continuing. I'm leaning heavily towards the Weaknees exchange, *looked at Ebay but figured I could easily end up with someone elses failing PS if I bought a used S3*. I'm not proficient enough to do any re-soldering myself so replacing the offending caps is not really an option, and in my area I don't know of anywhere that would do that sort of work.


That's actually a very valid concern, since the power supplies are all the same age, and the odds of them also having capacitors about to fail are quite high.

Replacing the caps is actually very easy for someone that's done that type of work, no friends or family with that skill set that you can bribe with food or beverages? Since I usually am that friend/family member, they know a good scotch or a BBQ meal usually are winners in getting me to say ok to a job like that.


----------



## keenanSR

ThAbtO said:


> You could look in the yellow pages for TV/VCR Repair or electronics/computer repair.


I did call 2 places, there are very few in this area that even do that sort of work and they both said it would be a week to 10 days before it could be completed, my guess is that they don't even do it themselves instead sending it somewhere else to be done.

I needed the DVR back in service very soon so I opted for the WeaKnees exchange. Expensive, but it's plug and play and being in the same state(Calif) I should have it in 2 days or less.


----------



## keenanSR

dianebrat said:


> That's actually a very valid concern, since the power supplies are all the same age, and the odds of them also having capacitors about to fail are quite high.
> 
> Replacing the caps is actually very easy for someone that's done that type of work, no friends or family with that skill set that you can bribe with food or beverages? Since I usually am that friend/family member, they know a good scotch or a BBQ meal usually are winners in getting me to say ok to a job like that.


If I set my mind to it I could probably pull it off, but without having complete confidence in my own ability I opted for the purchase. No family members or friends with that sort of skill set either. Basically, if I didn't need the machine soon I would just try it myself, but time and cost and proficiency considerations pointed to just buying the refurb.

Next I'll see what the HDD is up to, hopefully nothing!


----------



## sbguy

Hi Everyone,

I have a Series3 HD (the OLED one) TCD648250B and a new 2TB drive I'm trying to set up. I had been running a 1TB in it for a few years but it went belly up shortly after its warranty expired.

The new disk is a WD20EURS.

I have an original mfsbackup from the 250GB disk. Using MFSLive I am able to restore the old backup to the new disk, but not expand it. I understand that this is a known limitation of MFSTools to be able to expand on >1TB HDDs.

Next I tried JMFS for its expansion capabilities, but it is not recognizing that there is a Tivo filesystem on the disk.

I read somewhere about possibly needing to have a newer version of the Tivo OS. I put the new 2TB drive (having the 250GB image restored on it) in the Tivo and it booted just fine. After a couple of days it got updated to 11k.

I put the drive back in my host PC, booted MFSLvie and got a fresh mfsbackup for good measure. I then booted to my JMFS live CD wanting to expand, but it still does not recognize a valid Tivo system on the disk.

I'm stumped. Does anybody have any hints for me?

Thanks in advance,
Tom


----------



## nooneuknow

sbguy said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I have a Series3 HD (the OLED one) TCD648250B and a new 2TB drive I'm trying to set up. I had been running a 1TB in it for a few years but it went belly up shortly after its warranty expired.
> 
> The new disk is a WD20EURS.
> 
> I have an original mfsbackup from the 250GB disk. Using MFSLive I am able to restore the old backup to the new disk, but not expand it. I understand that this is a known limitation of MFSTools to be able to expand on >1TB HDDs.
> 
> Next I tried JMFS for its expansion capabilities, but it is not recognizing that there is a Tivo filesystem on the disk.
> 
> I read somewhere about possibly needing to have a newer version of the Tivo OS. I put the new 2TB drive (having the 250GB image restored on it) in the Tivo and it booted just fine. After a couple of days it got updated to 11k.
> 
> I put the drive back in my host PC, booted MFSLvie and got a fresh mfsbackup for good measure. I then booted to my JMFS live CD wanting to expand, but it still does not recognize a valid Tivo system on the disk.
> 
> I'm stumped. Does anybody have any hints for me?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Tom


Search the forum for the DVRBARS utility thread. It's the newest (Windows-based) tool/utility that may help you out. If you PM the software author, with your TCD model number, he'll PM you back with a way to get the image you need, if he has access to it. If he helps you out, please consider a donation to his PayPal account. Besides all the time and effort he's given to us for free, in the form of his utility, he pays for a very large dropbox account, and that isn't for his benefit. It's for ours. Best of luck, with resolving your issue.


----------



## sbguy

Well the DVRBARS utility can't expand, which is what I needed. But, while browsing that thread, I saw a post about someone using MFSAdd inside WinMFS for expanding the OLED S3. That, alas, worked for me too.

So thanks for directing me to that thread, even if it were for the wrong reason!
Tom


----------



## unitron

sbguy said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I have a Series3 HD (the OLED one) TCD648250B and a new 2TB drive I'm trying to set up. I had been running a 1TB in it for a few years but it went belly up shortly after its warranty expired.
> 
> The new disk is a WD20EURS.
> 
> I have an original mfsbackup from the 250GB disk. Using MFSLive I am able to restore the old backup to the new disk, but not expand it. I understand that this is a known limitation of MFSTools to be able to expand on >1TB HDDs.
> 
> Next I tried JMFS for its expansion capabilities, but it is not recognizing that there is a Tivo filesystem on the disk.
> 
> I read somewhere about possibly needing to have a newer version of the Tivo OS. I put the new 2TB drive (having the 250GB image restored on it) in the Tivo and it booted just fine. After a couple of days it got updated to 11k.
> 
> I put the drive back in my host PC, booted MFSLvie and got a fresh mfsbackup for good measure. I then booted to my JMFS live CD wanting to expand, but it still does not recognize a valid Tivo system on the disk.
> 
> I'm stumped. Does anybody have any hints for me?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Tom


Just for the record, jmfs does not recognize a drive from anything older than the S3 HD and HD XL as a valid TiVo drive, and of course the original S3, the OLED model, came first, so it's among the ones older than the HD.


----------



## nooneuknow

sbguy said:


> Well the DVRBARS utility can't expand, which is what I needed. But, while browsing that thread, I saw a post about someone using MFSAdd inside WinMFS for expanding the OLED S3. That, alas, worked for me too.
> 
> So thanks for directing me to that thread, even if it were for the wrong reason!
> Tom


Yeah, I thought about that after I posted. But I knew if you didn't stumble upon the right method, somebody else would point you there. I don't have anything older than a TiVo HD. So, I'm not the expert on the S3 OLED, but there's plenty around here.

I'm happy to see you got where you needed to be.


----------



## unitron

sbguy said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I have a Series3 HD (the OLED one) TCD648250B and a new 2TB drive I'm trying to set up. I had been running a 1TB in it for a few years but it went belly up shortly after its warranty expired.
> 
> The new disk is a WD20EURS.
> 
> I have an original mfsbackup from the 250GB disk. Using MFSLive I am able to restore the old backup to the new disk, but not expand it. I understand that this is a known limitation of MFSTools to be able to expand on >1TB HDDs.
> 
> Next I tried JMFS for its expansion capabilities, but it is not recognizing that there is a Tivo filesystem on the disk.
> 
> I read somewhere about possibly needing to have a newer version of the Tivo OS. I put the new 2TB drive (having the 250GB image restored on it) in the Tivo and it booted just fine. After a couple of days it got updated to 11k.
> 
> I put the drive back in my host PC, booted MFSLvie and got a fresh mfsbackup for good measure. I then booted to my JMFS live CD wanting to expand, but it still does not recognize a valid Tivo system on the disk.
> 
> I'm stumped. Does anybody have any hints for me?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Tom


Apologies, I didn't read your post as thoroughly as I should have.

Are you unable to use WinMFS to do the copy and expansion?

(if using WinMFS, do the copy, then turn it down when it offers to expand, then click on mfsadd to do the expand as a separate step. I do not know why this is necessary, but it is and if you do it that way it should work fine)


----------



## mattack

jmfs only works for TivoHD & Premiere, not OLED S3.


----------



## sbguy

Yes, I'm up and running.

Here's what I had and what I did:

A TCD648250B "OLED" with a totally dead 1TB drive.
A new WD20EURS 2TB drive.
A truncated mfsbackup file from 3+ years ago when it had the original 250GB drive and old (8.x?) software.

I restored my old backup to the new 2TB drive, using mfsrestore, without expanding.
I installed this drive in the Tivo, let it run until it got a software update to 11.0k.
I installed it back into my host PC and used WinMFS to expand it using the MFSAdd menu and telling it to ignore the 1TB limit.

That did it.

Thanks everyone for the tips.
Tom


----------



## keenanSR

A followup on my troubles, it was the power supply, refurb installed and everything is looking good. 

Thanks for the help everyone.


----------



## Sevenfeet

Sevenfeet said:


> Another day, another broken S3 OLED Tivo. After having it pulled from the rack weeks ago I finally cracked it open, and yup, a bad C701 capacitor. I've previously repaired my Mitsubishi TV years ago with bad caps so I think I can do this pretty easily. I've ordered the parts and we'll see how it goes.


Follow-up...

I went ahead and replaced the bad capacitor without too much trouble. The Tivo Series 3 OLED came back to life and for awhile, everything seemed to be ok. But after 9 hours, the unit rebooted and locked again on the second screen. After running the kickstart 54, it was determined that the boot drive was failing. I had suspected that it was failing but I'd forgotten about it since my Tivo had been down and out of the rack for so long (months now).

I do have a WD10EACS that isn't new but it's available and I ran it through WD's diagnostic utility (extended scan) with flying colors. Since my Tivo is mated to an external drive, I tried to get the Tivo to boot enough to get to the point that the drive would divorce so I could do a proper dd_rescue to no avail. Doing a dd_rescue anyway completely failed after only a minute of copying...the drive hits a bad patch and then stops being responsive entirely. I'm thinking that the 9 hours it was up was the last stand. So I cannot salvage any information on this drive.

My next plan is to pull the hard drive of the other working Tivo Series 3 OLED that I own, dd copy that drive to my WD10EACS and boot it in the problem Tivo. Divorce it from the external drive it's expecting to see, and then ask the MFS utilities to expand the drive to take up all of the 1 gig space, and then mate it back to the external drive when I'm done. And along the way, I have to make sure I run the utility to head off the soft reboot issue.


----------



## dougdingle

Sevenfeet said:


> Since my Tivo is mated to an external drive, I tried to get the Tivo to boot enough to get to the point that the drive would divorce so I could do a proper dd_rescue to no avail. Doing a dd_rescue anyway completely failed after only a minute of copying...the drive hits a bad patch and then stops being responsive entirely.


A couple of suggestions:

Try the DvrBARS Windows TiVo drive copy utility available in a thread here somewhere. It stops on errors, but does not abort, so you have to keep an eye on it and tell it to continue after each error. It allowed me to copy most of a failing drive where everything else just wouldn't. It's donationware, so if it does work for you, consider sending the author a few dollars as I did.

Also, I have had some luck in the past copying "reluctant" drives by wrapping a cold drive in saran wrap, and putting it in the fridge or freezer for an hour or so before attempting a copy, unwrapping it, then keeping a fan on it as it warms up.


----------



## Teeps

You might try freezing the failing drive, then do the dd_rescue.
A dry ice freeze may be needed to keep it cold enough to get through the rescue routine.


----------



## dlfl

keenanSR said:


> A followup on my troubles, it was the power supply, refurb installed and everything is looking good.
> 
> Thanks for the help everyone.


Suggestion: A week before the warranty expires, check for bulging caps.


----------



## tluxon

Teeps said:


> You might try freezing the failing drive, then do the dd_rescue.
> A dry ice freeze may be needed to keep it cold enough to get through the rescue routine.


As soon as air hits that drive, the resulting condensation between the spinning disc surfaces and the heads will destroy any data you hoped to ever recover before it can be read.


----------



## jmbach

tluxon said:


> As soon as air hits that drive, the resulting condensation between the spinning disc surfaces and the heads will destroy any data you hoped to ever recover before it can be read.


I thought that too. But it does work. Sometimes have to do it several times before I can get the whole drive copied.


----------



## tluxon

jmbach said:


> tluxon said:
> 
> 
> 
> As soon as air hits that drive, the resulting condensation between the spinning disc surfaces and the heads will destroy any data you hoped to ever recover before it can be read.
> 
> 
> 
> I thought that too. But it does work. Sometimes have to do it several times before I can get the whole drive copied.
Click to expand...

I've heard of others having success with that method as well, but the process is so risky that it has to be accepted that if it doesn't work, nothing will ever work.

I can only imagine that you must've had the drive in a very dry environment. How did you minimize the opportunity for humidity to have access to the platters?


----------



## jmbach

I wrap mine in a towel. The drives I used this on were close to bricks to begin with. Before I even use this method I try fans and A/C vents first in that order. I think condensation is more of a long term problem (corrosion) than short term. Magnetism is not affected by water. The heads and motor might if the condensate has impurities that might conduct current and cause shorts. Externally the towel wicks away moisture. Usually have to re freeze several times and copy the drive in sections. When I have it available, dry ice and a towel on the circuit board of the drive works as well and sometimes lasts longer.


----------



## steve614

Aren't hard drives hermetically sealed?
Do they even have enough air in there to condense?
Wouldn't the spinning platters create enough internal air flow to prevent condensation?


----------



## nooneuknow

steve614 said:


> Aren't hard drives hermetically sealed?
> Do they even have enough air in there to condense?
> Wouldn't the spinning platters create enough internal air flow to prevent condensation?


They all have at least one filtered breather port. This is the reason why there's always a warning that says "DO NOT COVER ANY DRIVES HOLES".

There are several internal filters as well, that catch any microscopic debris that may wind up in the drive's internal airflow.

I would hazard a guess that these filters have a desiccant (humidity absorbing agent), but they can only trap so much, and then they would be saturated (if they have desiccant in them).

So, with that said, The whole "drive freezing" method, should be a last resort, and the drive taken out of service after this has been done to it.

It's usually done for one of two reasons:

1: Delaying the onset of a thermal intermittent issue.

2: Thickening the fluid of the Fluid Dynamic Bearings, so that the platters don't wobble.

I've used the method many times. It has worked.

I feel I should also note that the last shipment of OEM drives I received from WD, had HUGE warnings on all the sides of the box with a chart of what drive temperature the drives may have been exposed to in shipping, and how many hours they needed to be left sealed, and what temperature they should be at before being opened, and before powered-on.

I don't think that they'd print that on the box, if it wasn't a drive killer, or something that could cause premature failure.

Even with DRY ICE, the cold will still cause moisture condensation. Most DIY data recovery websites now advocate using those electronic devices that draw heat away from the drive (The ones that get cold on one side and hot on the other), and adhering heat sinks with fans to strategic places, rather than chucking the drive in the freezer, or even the fridge.

It IS true that a microscopic droplet of water on a drive platter could shear the head right off the actuator arm.


----------



## unitron

tluxon said:


> As soon as air hits that drive, the resulting condensation between the spinning disc surfaces and the heads will destroy any data you hoped to ever recover before it can be read.


That's why you wrap some paper towel around it before putting it in the freezer.

That, and not wanting to leave any skin on it when you take it out of the freezer.


----------



## Sevenfeet

I've heard various things about the freezing method. Honestly, while it might be nice to have the old recordings, it's not required. But since the drive is going to get recycled anyway, it might be ok to try it. The big problem everybody talks about it condensation on the platters. I wonder if throwing rice into the bag with the drive might mitigate some of that?

But since I have a second Tivo S3 that's working, I can easily clone its primary hard drive, install it, divorce it from the expected second hard drive it would look for and then expand the hard drive with the available MFS utilities out there. Once that is done, than I can mate it to the available second drive and I'm done.

I'll take a couple of days for me to find the time to do all of this. But it should work.


----------



## daverita

I have the image for the Tivo HDR112 on a flash drive and I am using winmfs to put it onto a PATA/IDE drive. I use mfscopy from WinMFS and it seems to work OK. But when I put the drive in the Tivo - it makes the phone call, but fails while loading the data. Can anybody think of what I might be doing wrong and how to fix this problem.

Thank you.


----------



## ggieseke

daverita said:


> I have the image for the Tivo HDR112 on a flash drive and I am using winmfs to put it onto a PATA/IDE drive. I use mfscopy from WinMFS and it seems to work OK. But when I put the drive in the Tivo - it makes the phone call, but fails while loading the data. Can anybody think of what I might be doing wrong and how to fix this problem.
> 
> Thank you.


Have you run a Clear & Delete Everything? Unless the image came from that TiVo you have to run C&DE to "marry" it to the motherboard.


----------



## unitron

daverita said:


> I have the image for the Tivo HDR112 on a flash drive and I am using winmfs to put it onto a PATA/IDE drive. I use mfscopy from WinMFS and it seems to work OK. But when I put the drive in the Tivo - it makes the phone call, but fails while loading the data. Can anybody think of what I might be doing wrong and how to fix this problem.
> 
> Thank you.


S1s that use the phone often have problems connecting satisfactorily to the TiVo servers.

You just have to keep trying.


----------



## A J Ricaud

Newegg has the Western Digital WD Green WD20EZRX for $84.99 for 48 hrs. Use promo code EMCYTZT3935 for the discount:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...13-Index-_-InternalHardDrives-_-22236404-L08B


----------



## ccrider2

A J Ricaud said:


> Newegg has the Western Digital WD Green WD20EZRX for $84.99 for 48 hrs. Use promo code EMCYTZT3935 for the discount:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...13-Index-_-InternalHardDrives-_-22236404-L08B


Thanks for the heads-up!

Hopefully I won't loose-out on return shipping for another DOA drive.


----------



## Sevenfeet

OK, here's what has happened so far with getting my dead Tivo S3 OLED working again:

1. Resoldered new capacitor
2. Attempted to clone original HD (failed)
3. Secure newer WD10EACS 1 gig drive I had, do WDIDLE3 on it.
4. Clone 250 gig original drive from my other Tivo S3 OLED to the WD10EACS
5. Fired up the dead Tivo. Tivo now boots.
6. Moved to erase all information from the Tivo to mate with the motherboard
7. After next successful reboot, pulled drive for a mfsadd to use the entire 1 gig drive

So everything seems to be ok, except for one thing. I cannot add the second external hard drive to this system, even though it was a part of its configuration for years. I even went and erased it so that the Tivo wouldn't be confused by it. But when you ask the Tivo to mate to it, it seems to go ahead and do it, reboots but then the amount of HD space doesn't seem to change. On the system page, the hard drive is listed, but it doesn't seem to be used.

Any ideas?


----------



## jmbach

Did you use WinMFS or MFSLive to do the expansion. 
WinMFS has an option to add an external drive that might work better.


----------



## Sevenfeet

I used MFSlive. I couldn't get WinMFS to recognize the drive, even hung off my laptop's SATA port. I'm not sure what I did wrong. MFSlive (and Linux) did see the drive so I proceeded with that.


----------



## jmbach

I have seen that happen if you don't run WinMFS with administrator privileges. Might try to divorce the extender drive (usually by unplugging it and booting the tivo) and then restored attach the drive to see if it will initialize and pair the drive up. If not, try WinMFS again with administration privileges to pair the drive. There used to be a KS code you can use to pair the drive. KS 62 was the code. It's still present but was made superfluous because the tivo is supposed to automatically initialize the extender drive once it is plugged in. Could not hurt to try if everything else fails.


----------



## ThAbtO

Sevenfeet said:


> I used MFSlive. I couldn't get WinMFS to recognize the drive, even hung off my laptop's SATA port. I'm not sure what I did wrong. MFSlive (and Linux) did see the drive so I proceeded with that.


Why would you need to add the expander drive when it will just add on a point to failure. If either drive should fail, your recordings will not be recoverable. You can only add the external with both hooked up to the computer and in WinMFS, with admin rights, I believe its MFSAdd.

With the 1 TB drive, you should have 157 HD Hrs of storage.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

ThAbtO said:


> Why would you need to add the expander drive when it will just add on a point to failure. If either drive should fail, your recordings will not be recoverable. You can only add the external with both hooked up to the computer and in WinMFS, with admin rights, I believe its MFSAdd.
> 
> With the 1 TB drive, you should have 157 HD Hrs of storage.


This. Don't bother.


----------



## Keen

Just used jmfs to move my Tivo to a new hard drive. My Tivo's been acting a little flakey for months, and it randomly rebooted and hung last week. So I grabbed a new drive and copied my existing drive over.

At 60MB/sec, the 2TB drive took a good long while to copy, which I left it to do overnight. In the morning, it had completed without seeing any errors on my old drive. Hopefully this fixes the infrequent hangs I've been seeing, and the hang during reboot.


----------



## sfhub

sbguy said:


> A TCD648250B "OLED" with a totally dead 1TB drive.
> A new WD20EURS 2TB drive.
> A truncated mfsbackup file from 3+ years ago when it had the original 250GB drive and old (8.x?) software.
> 
> I restored my old backup to the new 2TB drive, using mfsrestore, without expanding.
> *I installed this drive in the Tivo, let it run until it got a software update to 11.0k.*
> I installed it back into my host PC and used WinMFS to expand it using the MFSAdd menu and *telling it to ignore the 1TB limit*.
> 
> That did it.


So I've only read the FAQs on the first page, but was there some recent change in 11.0k...m for OLED S3 that allows for larger the 1TiB MFS partitions. That was the impression I got from the procedure above.


----------



## unitron

sfhub said:


> So I've only read the FAQs on the first page, but was there some recent change in 11.0k...m for OLED S3 that allows for larger the 1TiB MFS partitions. That was the impression I got from the procedure above.


Yeah, it's been confirmed that you can use a 2TB in any S3, the 648, the 652, the 658, and WinMFS will do the job (but you have to do the expand as a separate step instead of accepting the offer at the end of the copy/restore, for some reason), no need for jmfs, provided you're installing an image that's updated at least to 11.0k (which has been around for a few years now, so it's rare not to have it), or provided you do not expand until letting it phone home and update to k (or maybe straight to m).

jmfs still needed for S4s, though, if you want to copy and expand.


----------



## sfhub

unitron said:


> Yeah, it's been confirmed that you can use a 2TB in any S3, the 648, the 652, the 658, and WinMFS will do the job (but you have to do the expand as a separate step instead of accepting the offer at the end of the copy/restore, for some reason), no need for jmfs, provided you're installing an image that's updated at least to 11.0k (which has been around for a few years now, so it's rare not to have it), or provided you do not expand until letting it phone home and update to k (or maybe straight to m).


Awesome, thanks for the info.

I had the failing/bulging caps that I replaced only to find I also had a dying HD. I haven't been around these forums in a while so I had no idea 11.0k added that feature (updated kernel?) To give perspective, my last backup of the OS is 8.1.1.

So is this a reasonable way to upgrade now for 2TB OLED S3 (assuming old image)

Prepare drive
DD original image
hdparm -M 128
wdidle3 (if necessary)

allow OS to upgrade to 11.0k (11.0m in my case)
winmfs mfsadd
winmfs supersize
Is there a better procedure?

From reading past posts, you are pretty much on top of everything. Is there something conclusive about the 4K/512e advanced format on the WD20EURS drive. Is it a situation where there is initial success but issues develop over time, or is everything just theoretical. If there are actual issues, then I'll try and get an older 512b drive, but it will probably take some effort.

As an aside, I have an ESR tester for bad caps and tested them in-circuit (unplugged of course).

Only 2 tested bad, so I replaced those. There were 3 that looked ok, except one had tiny bulge, but could have been my imagination. It tested fine so I didn't replace it. Still had some issues with unstable svideo output, so I went back and looked more closely.

Turns out my late night tired eyes were fooled and I didn't realize those 3 caps are in parallel, so the in-circuit ESR testing was useless. Anyway, replaced all 3 as it turns out after testing out of circuit, 2 of 3 were bad, though one had no signs of bulge and I figured with the high ESR on the failed caps, the remaining cap probably took on more of the burden so its days might be numbered.


----------



## ThAbtO

sfhub said:


> So I've only read the FAQs on the first page, but was there some recent change in 11.0k...m for OLED S3 that allows for larger the 1TiB MFS partitions. That was the impression I got from the procedure above.


The 11.0m (9.3.2c in Series 2) version was just a fix for the cookie bug that stopped downloads.


----------



## sfhub

ThAbtO said:


> The 11.0m (9.3.2c in Series 2) version was just a fix for the cookie bug that stopped downloads.


Thanks, from the standpoint of upgrading drives, 11.0m should have the same change as in 11.0k to support > 1.1TB partitions, correct?


----------



## jmbach

More than likely since my 2TB OLED S3 updated from 11.0k to 11.0m with no loss of functionality.


----------



## unitron

sfhub said:


> Awesome, thanks for the info.
> 
> I had the failing/bulging caps that I replaced only to find I also had a dying HD. I haven't been around these forums in a while so I had no idea 11.0k added that feature (updated kernel?) To give perspective, my last backup of the OS is 8.1.1.
> 
> So is this a reasonable way to upgrade now for 2TB OLED S3 (assuming old image)
> 
> Prepare drive
> DD original image
> hdparm -M 128
> wdidle3 (if necessary)
> 
> allow OS to upgrade to 11.0k (11.0m in my case)
> winmfs mfsadd
> winmfs supersize
> Is there a better procedure?
> 
> From reading past posts, you are pretty much on top of everything. Is there something conclusive about the 4K/512e advanced format on the WD20EURS drive. Is it a situation where there is initial success but issues develop over time, or is everything just theoretical. If there are actual issues, then I'll try and get an older 512b drive, but it will probably take some effort.
> 
> As an aside, I have an ESR tester for bad caps and tested them in-circuit (unplugged of course).
> 
> Only 2 tested bad, so I replaced those. There were 3 that looked ok, except one had tiny bulge, but could have been my imagination. It tested fine so I didn't replace it. Still had some issues with unstable svideo output, so I went back and looked more closely.
> 
> Turns out my late night tired eyes were fooled and I didn't realize those 3 caps are in parallel, so the in-circuit ESR testing was useless. Anyway, replaced all 3 as it turns out after testing out of circuit, 2 of 3 were bad, though one had no signs of bulge and I figured with the high ESR on the failed caps, the remaining cap probably took on more of the burden so its days might be numbered.


What part of the country are you and your ESR meter in?

If the AF of the WD20EURS was going to cause a problem in S3s, I think enough of us are running them that we'd have run into it by now.

I don't know exactly what's wrong with the drive you have in your 648 currently, or how long it's going to last.

Are there shows on there that you particularly want to try to save?

Do you have a PC running Windows XP or newer and WinMFS installed on it?

Can you open it up and attach two SATA drives directly to SATA ports?

If not, have you got USB-to-SATA adapters?

Do you have a freezer and paper towels?

Have you burned yourself a bootable copy of the MFS Live cd v1.4 and made sure you can boot that PC from it?

Have you made yourself a bootable copy of the current Ultimate Boot CD?


----------



## sfhub

unitron said:


> If the AF of the WD20EURS was going to cause a problem in S3s, I think enough of us are running them that we'd have run into it by now.


My original drive actually seemed usable and after replacing the caps, the unit booted again, but I was getting some random reboots and some svideo instability.

In an effort to determine if the drive was the issue I thought I should run a kickstart 54. Kickstart 54 actual tests came back passed, except the SMART query came back with some error #7. Drive could still boot and playback shows, but would randomly reboot half an hour to an hour in, sometimes on playback, sometimes just doing menu operations.

Instead of assuming the drive was going and immediately starting recovery operations (which I now realize I should have done), I thought maybe there were more caps to replace but I wanted to further rule out the drive so I naively thought I should run kickstart 57.

It said it would take 3hrs and was chugging along for about 2hrs, then it rebooted and got stuck in a GSOD loop. I don't know if the drive is actually bad because I timed the GSOD loop and it always rebooted exactly 89 seconds into the GSOD screen, so could be the drive, or something kickstart 57 depends on isn't right. I checked my records and I had added 375mb swap space originally, but it was so long ago, I might have had issues with the bug with swap space signatures > 127mb.

I tried sticking the drive on a winxpsp3 asus box and ran WinMFS but it wouldn't recognize the drive as a TiVo drive, so at this point I figured I could spend another unknown amount of time figuring out if I can recover enough of the drive to salvage shows or I could just image a new drive. I went the latter route because I needed some shows to get recorded.

I've already restored an original image onto a 1TB 512b drive and it is up and running, but I haven't spent any time trying to salvage shows on the old drive yet.

So I came on here seeing if there was more info about the GSOD loop and ended up reading about advances in drive upgrades. I was surprised to find out the 1TB barrier was passed with 11.0k. I started thinking since I have the unit out and disassembled, I might as well put in a 2TB drive. I read about AF and what I thought were theoretical problems, but then I read something about Tluxon and some FF/Rew issues he had over time.

So where I am at now is I have a fully working unit on the 1TB 512b drive.

I am resolved to lose my shows, but will make some attempt at recovering the 750GB Seagate DB35.3 drive.

In parallel I am trying to decide if I should purchase a WD20EURS drive and do the 2TB upgrade. The WD20EURS seems like a great drive for an upgrade except for this AF black cloud that seems to surround it. I can try and get a refurb 512b drive, but I'm really wondering if it is worth the effort, especially if these are just theoretical rather than actual issues.

I went through and looked at the original partitions on the OLED S3 and it looks like they are not 4k aligned at all:


Code:


  Original Partition Map
  Partition map (with 512 byte blocks) on '/dev/hda'
   #:                type name                        length   base      ( size )
   1: Apple_partition_map Apple                           63 @ 1
   2:               Image Bootstrap 1                      1 @ 268618469
   3:               Image Kernel 1                      8192 @ 268618470 (  4.0M)
   4:                Ext2 Root 1                      524288 @ 268626662 (256.0M)
   5:               Image Bootstrap 2                      1 @ 269150950
   6:               Image Kernel 2                      8192 @ 269150951 (  4.0M)
   7:                Ext2 Root 2                      524288 @ 269159143 (256.0M)
   8:                Swap Linux swap                  262144 @ 269683431 (128.0M)
   9:                Ext2 /var                        524288 @ 269945575 (256.0M)
  10:                 MFS MFS application region      589824 @ 270469863 (288.0M)
  11:                 MFS MFS media region         216747657 @ 271649511 (103.4G)
  12:                 MFS MFS application region 2    589824 @ 271059687 (288.0M)
  13:                 MFS MFS media region 2       268618405 @ 64        (128.1G)

I am not sure if it really matters because I don't even know if TiVo internally tries to write out in 4096 blocks or respects 4k blocks once the partitions are aligned. I can imagine that making every write a read-modify-write cycle would be inefficient and possibly result in more wear/tear, but possibly WD handles this in cache before it ever gets to the drive.

So I think I will go with a 2TB upgrade and I'm thinking of getting a WD20EURS drive but haven't purchased it yet. I am willing to try and get a 512b 2TB drive if I can find one from a realiable source and it isn't outrageously expensive.

If I get the WD20EURS I'm trying to figure out if I need to spend some effort getting the partitions 4k-aligned. I was originally planning on a DD then a WinMFS mfsadd but since the original partitions are completely not aligned, that seems to not have any advantage as far as 4k-alignment goes.

As an aside, does mfslive 1.4 mfsadd also work for > 1TB adds?

I'd normally just go and do some experiments, but these 250GB/750GB/1TB/2TB disk operations all take significant time and doing everything "right" the first time around will probably save a lot of frustration.

Sorry if this is TLDR, I'm hopeful someone takes the time to lend their expertise and push me on the right path if I am headed the wrong direction.


----------



## sfhub

So I had another question about alignment and how partitions map to physical blocks.


Code:


   #:                type name                        length   base      ( size )
 1: Apple_partition_map Apple                           63 @ 1
...
13:                 MFS MFS media region 2       268618405 @ 64        (128.1G)

When the partition map lists base of partition #1 as 1, does the numbering system start at "1" or "0"?

I think it starts at "0" and the first block is the boot record. So in this case


Code:


block
0      MBR
1 -63  Apple_partition_map
64-... MFS medial region 2

If this is correct, I'd want the base of the media partitions to all be evenly divisible by 4.

However if this is incorrect and the 1st block actually starts at "1", then I'd want all the divisions to end in .25

I know from past experience, it is easy to get "off by 1" errors if not being very specific about where things start.

Also since mfscopy (mfslive/restore) is moving partitions around anyway, has someone tried modifying it to 4k align the partitions when it moves them around? It doesn't even need to adjust the partition sizes, just needs to skip enough blocks to align the partitions and adjust the start/end of the zones.


----------



## sfhub

sfhub said:


> So I had another question about alignment and how partitions map to physical blocks.
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> #:                type name                        length   base      ( size )
> 1: Apple_partition_map Apple                           63 @ 1
> ...
> 13:                 MFS MFS media region 2       268618405 @ 64        (128.1G)
> 
> When the partition map lists base of partition #1 as 1, does the numbering system start at "1" or "0"?
> 
> I think it starts at "0" and the first block is the boot record. So in this case


According to this article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Partition_Map

For Apple Partition Map systems every block is mapped out, except for Block 0, which is the Driver Descriptor Map.

That means the most obvious and easy way to figure out 4k alignment is to have the base block evenly divisible by 4 (which is what everyone has been doing already).

So the above example looks like this:


Code:


block
0      Driver Descriptor Map
1 -63  Apple_partition_map
64-... MFS medial region 2

So back to the previous question, since it seems mfslive/restore is already moving stuff around has anybody looked into adding the appropriate "spacing" to keep everything 4k-aligned?

Is it possible to just change the start/end of the partitions and zone information so they are 4k aligned, leaving unreferenced "spacers" in between? Or does every block on disk need to be accounted for in an Apple Partition Map, in which case you could create small dummy partitions.


----------



## unitron

If one is going to run SMART tests on a drive, it's probably better to take it out of the TiVo and use the manufacturer's diagnostic software.

Since WinMFS will let you use a 2TB on S3s now that 11.0k will let the TiVo handle partitions bigger than 1TB (or 1.2 or whatever), I never bothered spending time experimenting with MFS Live to see if it would.

WinMFS isn't exactly brand new, and MFS Live is even older.

I think the WD20EURS is one of those 4k physical/512 virtual drives, meaning it does any necessary bit juggling instead of the TiVo having to.

Like I said...

"If the AF of the WD20EURS was going to cause a problem in S3s, I think enough of us are running them that we'd have run into it by now."


----------



## sfhub

unitron said:


> Since WinMFS will let you use a 2TB on S3s now that 11.0k will let the TiVo handle partitions bigger than 1TB (or 1.2 or whatever), I never bothered spending time experimenting with MFS Live to see if it would.


Do you know if WinMFS will add the zones to the existing partition 15 if you add a 2nd time. ie you went from 250GB->1TB->2TB After 250GB->1TB you'd have partition 14/15 (for historical reasons). Now when you try to reupgrade an upgraded drive it could do a single partition 16 (instead of the traditional pair) or it could add the zone to the existing partition or it could just not work.

I'm hoping it justs adds the zone to the existing partition 15.



unitron said:


> I think the WD20EURS is one of those 4k physical/512 virtual drives, meaning it does any necessary bit juggling instead of the TiVo having to.
> 
> Like I said...
> 
> "If the AF of the WD20EURS was going to cause a problem in S3s, I think enough of us are running them that we'd have run into it by now."


I understand what you are saying, I just like to understand what I'm getting myself into.

All (or almost all) 4k drives are 4k physical/512 virtual, but not all 4k/512 are the same. Western Digital recommends alignment while Seagate does "SmartAlign" which is their predictive cache/lookahead read that is supposed to reduce the occurence of read-modify-write even without alignment.

The issue with all these 4k drives is not whether they will work. Clearly as you say they do. The performance issues, even with benchmarks happens only with random writes. With sequential writes they perform at almost normal speed even if not aligned. The reads are virtually not affected by non-alignment even if random. So you are just left with random writes, where the performance goes down the tubes, probably 3-4x slower.

I'm worried that a newly upgraded TiVo with lots of free space will mostly be doing sequential writes, but over time if you fill up the drive with different size SD/HD shows and remove them, things could get fragmented, shifting you into the random write situation.

As an aside has someone filled up their 2TB drive completely yet? Was the old 1TB partition size error something that would immediately show up at startup or something you'd see later on when the drive filled up?

Alternatively has someone verified the 11.0k kernel actually supports > 1TiB partitions or is it just by experimentation with WinMFS?

I saw something about Jamie having made some signed int->unsigned int change to his custom kernel to support 2TiB partitions, then some waiting game to see if TiVo incorporated the changes, but I never was able to find talk about the kernel changes being included 11.0k other than the experimentations with WinMFS and conclusion that it works.

I am sorry for asking so many questions. While this stuff is probably common knowledge, I'm time-warped from 5yrs ago, so it is somewhat new to me.


----------



## Soapm

sfhub said:


> Do you know if WinMFS will add the zones to the existing partition 15 if you add a 2nd time. ie you went from 250GB->1TB->2TB After 250GB->1TB you'd have partition 14/15 (for historical reasons). Now when you try to reupgrade an upgraded drive it could do a single partition 16 (instead of the traditional pair) or it could add the zone to the existing partition or it could just not work.
> 
> I'm hoping it justs adds the zone to the existing partition 15.


WinMFS will always add pairs. Only JMFS can add a single partition. You can also try mfsadd tool from the other forum.



sfhub said:


> The issue with all these 4k drives is not whether they will work. Clearly as you say they do. The performance issues, even with benchmarks happens only with random writes. With sequential writes they perform at almost normal speed even if not aligned. The reads are virtually not affected by non-alignment even if random. So you are just left with random writes, where the performance goes down the tubes, probably 3-4x slower.


I had 2TB drives in two Tivo's for probably two years now so I will assume they're as full as a Tivo will allow them to be and the shows record and play just fine. There might be performance issues but they're not visible using the Tivo.

It's like beefing up your engine to continue to drive 65mph when the car went 65mph with no strain before.



sfhub said:


> I'm worried that a newly upgraded TiVo with lots of free space will mostly be doing sequential writes, but over time if you fill up the drive with different size SD/HD shows and remove them, things could get fragmented, shifting you into the random write situation.


I'm no technical expert but I recall seeing that fragmentation isn't a problem with the MFS design. I think the compensation was in the design.



sfhub said:


> I saw something about Jamie having made some signed int->unsigned int change to his custom kernel to support 2TiB partitions, then some waiting game to see if TiVo incorporated the changes, but I never was able to find talk about the kernel changes being included 11.0k other than the experimentations with WinMFS and conclusion that it works.


I don't think the problem was the kernel. I've used nuetered stock kernels since installing this drive and I have a 1.6 gig partition that's worked since day one. I don't know why TivoHD weren't accepting WinMFS drives before 11.0k but I don't think it was the kernel. However, I used JMFS on my drives so I don't know if that made a difference but I would think 1.6 gig is 1.6 gigs.

You can also see that JMFS added a single partition.



Code:


Partition map (with 512 byte blocks) on '/dev/hda'
 #:                type name                         length   base       ( size )
 1: Apple_partition_map Apple                            63 @ 1          (  31.5K)
 2:               Image Bootstrap 1                       1 @ 309549120
 3:               Image Kernel 1                       8192 @ 309549121  (   4.0M)
 4:                Ext2 Root 1                       524288 @ 309557313  ( 256.0M)
 5:               Image Bootstrap 2                       1 @ 310081601
 6:               Image Kernel 2                       8192 @ 310081602  (   4.0M)
 7:                Ext2 Root 2                       524288 @ 310089794  ( 256.0M)
 8:                Swap Linux swap                   262144 @ 310614082  ( 128.0M)
 9:                Ext2 /var                         524288 @ 310876226  ( 256.0M)
10:                 MFS MFS application region       589824 @ 311400514  ( 288.0M)
11:                 MFS MFS media region          137629696 @ 171919424  (  65.6G)
12:                 MFS MFS application region 2     589824 @ 311990338  ( 288.0M)
13:                 MFS MFS media region 2        171919360 @ 64         (  81.9G)
14:          Apple_Free Extra                          1645 @ 312580162  ( 822.5K)
15:                 MFS MFS media region 3       3594447361 @ 312581807  (   1.6T)


----------



## unitron

sfhub said:


> Do you know if WinMFS will add the zones to the existing partition 15 if you add a 2nd time. ie you went from 250GB->1TB->2TB After 250GB->1TB you'd have partition 14/15 (for historical reasons). Now when you try to reupgrade an upgraded drive it could do a single partition 16 (instead of the traditional pair) or it could add the zone to the existing partition or it could just not work.
> 
> I'm hoping it justs adds the zone to the existing partition 15.
> 
> I understand what you are saying, I just like to understand what I'm getting myself into.
> 
> All (or almost all) 4k drives are 4k physical/512 virtual, but not all 4k/512 are the same. Western Digital recommends alignment while Seagate does "SmartAlign" which is their predictive cache/lookahead read that is supposed to reduce the occurence of read-modify-write even without alignment.
> 
> The issue with all these 4k drives is not whether they will work. Clearly as you say they do. The performance issues, even with benchmarks happens only with random writes. With sequential writes they perform at almost normal speed even if not aligned. The reads are virtually not affected by non-alignment even if random. So you are just left with random writes, where the performance goes down the tubes, probably 3-4x slower.
> 
> I'm worried that a newly upgraded TiVo with lots of free space will mostly be doing sequential writes, but over time if you fill up the drive with different size SD/HD shows and remove them, things could get fragmented, shifting you into the random write situation.
> 
> As an aside has someone filled up their 2TB drive completely yet? Was the old 1TB partition size error something that would immediately show up at startup or something you'd see later on when the drive filled up?
> 
> Alternatively has someone verified the 11.0k kernel actually supports > 1TiB partitions or is it just by experimentation with WinMFS?
> 
> I saw something about Jamie having made some signed int->unsigned int change to his custom kernel to support 2TiB partitions, then some waiting game to see if TiVo incorporated the changes, but I never was able to find talk about the kernel changes being included 11.0k other than the experimentations with WinMFS and conclusion that it works.
> 
> I am sorry for asking so many questions. While this stuff is probably common knowledge, I'm time-warped from 5yrs ago, so it is somewhat new to me.


Actually it sounds like you may know some stuff about hard drives that I don't.

Anyway, if you start with a Series 1 that had a small enough hard drive, the image would have one MFS application region partition and one MFS media region partition, the proverbial "MFS pair".

Everything after that came with 2 MFS pairs, for a total of 13 partitions.

If you copied to a larger drive, you could expand (with MFS Tools or its successor MFS Live, or with WinMFS) by adding a third MFS pair, partitions 14 and 15.

If you copied that to yet a larger drive, it turns out that WinMFS can let you expand by making partition 15 larger.

I don't think MFS Live can do that, and won't be able to experiment to find out anytime soon.

Before I discovered (by way of someone else discovering it) that WinMFS would do what I needed, I used it to copy to a 1TB and expand (it won't leave a tiny little "Apple Free" partition the way I could never keep MFS Live from doing), filling up that 1TB drive with 15 partitions.

I then copied that to a 2TB drive using the jmfs cd and let it expand by adding a 16th partition.

(I learned the hard way that jmfs cannot detect and make use of an Apple Free partition the way WinMFS can, so if there is one of any size as the 16th partition on a drive, when you copy that drive to a larger one and expand with jmfs, it creates a 17th partition after that Apple Free one, and on booting the TiVo thinks it has an external drive gone bad hooked up and insists on divorcing it, which means the TiVo deletes that 17th partition and turns your 2TB drive back into one with only 1TB usable)

With all due respect to comer, who gave us jmfs (which is still the only way to expand an S4 drive that I know of), since WinMFS will handle S3 upgrades just fine as long as you're already up to 11.0k or later, I don't see any reason to use anything else, unless you only have a Mac laptop, in which case you're probably stuck with MFS Live if the laptop will boot from it.


----------



## sfhub

Thank you so much for the details. Every little bit adds confidence.

Just to be absolutely clear, folks here are successfully running > 1TB partitions on S3 OLEDs using stock 11.0k/m kernels right? I know sometimes when I mod boxes, I can lose track of what I'm running or whether I did something first with a hacked kernel then went back to stock.

Regarding JMFS dealing with the Apple Free partition created at the end of drive by MFS Live, would it have been possible to delete that partition using a partition editor (pdisk?) before running JMFS? I know it's not something you'll go back and try now, but perhaps something to keep in mind if it ever comes up again with someone else's upgrade.

Regarding the 1TiB partition limit in the kernel, the following led me to that idea (I was wrong about jamie's patch being signed to unsigned int, it was 32-bit int to 64-bit int)

From Spike
http://www.mfslive.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=257&start=45#p4818


> Here are the limits that I know of:
> 
> You can have only 16 partitons per drive.
> 128 character device names in the superheader devlist. /dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 .....
> *1 TiB partition limit due to linux Kernel (use of signed int to check # of sectors )*
> 2 TiB partition limit due to Apple partitition table being used (use of unsigned int to reference # of sectors)


From Spike
http://mfslive.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=4636#p4636


> Beta Build 9.3f & 9.3g are released.
> 
> - User is prompted "Y" or "N" to limit a partition to 1 TiB when expanding. If you have a drive smaller than 1TiB you won't get that prompt.
> If you want to use a 1.5 TB or higher drive, answer "Y" so you can at least use 1.2 TB of it. *As of Tivo software 11.0, linux kernel used can not
> support any partition higher than 1 TiB so if you answer "N", it won't work properly in your TiVo unless you have the specially hacked linux kernel
> installed that will allow it.*


From Jamie


> Here are custom Gen05 and Gen06 kernels built from the 9.4.1 tivo kernel sources. Be sure to read and understand the first post in this thread before attempting to us these custom kernels.
> ...
> *An additional patch is include here that changes some 32 bit ints in the tivo ide-disk.c driver to 64 bit ints. This allows the kernel to work with partitions > 1TiB. Without this patch, you'll get "kernel: idedisk_dosectors: Access beyond end of drive" errors with partitions > 1TiB.* Note that there is still a 2TiB partition size limit imposed by the ancient apple partition table format the tivo still used.
> ...


I was also led to the impression that originally the latest versions (at the time) of MFSLive and WinMFS mfsadd would blindly expand to the end of a 2TB drive. Coupled with the 1TiB partition limit in the linux kernel, this made MFSLive incompatible with 2TB drives (unless you started with a 1TB factory image). I think Spike added that WinMFS question about whether to break the 1TB partition limit to stop the blindly expand behavior so people could use 1.5/2TB drives with kernels that didn't support > 1TB.

So I *think* (but could be mistaken) MFSLive mfsadd would do the same expansion to end of drive that WinMFS is doing with 2TB drives, it just wouldn't ask you the question. I can't really verify at the moment since I don't have a 2TB drive (yet).

Thank you for being patient with me, I'm slowly figuring things out and the cobwebs are clearing from long-term neglect.


----------



## unitron

I tried using 

pdisk

to get rid of the Apple Free partition and it doesn't work, in that after you remove it, it puts itself right back. It's just the way the Apple Partition Map works--a non-partioned space gets labeled as an Apple Free partition.

Using WinMFS I put a 648 image (11.0k) on a 2TB and wound up with a 1.6TB partition 15, and it's been working fine for months--updated itself to 11.0m the other day without a hitch and everything.

I don't know if MFS Live will do that or not, I'll have to experiment.


----------



## jmbach

MFSLive will put a very small Apple_Free partition at the end of the drive after you expand it. Not sure if it does it in all cases, but it did it in all the cases that I have tried. The only way I know how to erase the Apple_Free partition is to do it manually with a hex editor. I have not found a way to accomplish that using pdisk alone.


----------



## sfhub

jmbach said:


> The only way I know how to erase the Apple_Free partition is to do it manually with a hex editor. I have not found a way to accomplish that using pdisk alone.


Perhaps you can use

dd bs=512 skip=N count=1 if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda1
Once you determine "N" for partition 16.

Partition 16 should be in the same location for everyone so the command should be universal (and harmless if you don't have a partition 16)

If it needs to be some special format rather than all zeros, then I'm sure you can read from the partition map of a 15 partition drive and save the output to a file to write back onto drives that have partition 16.


----------



## sfhub

Does anyone know if there are any S3 OLEDs that run MFS64 (ie their "magic" in the Super Header is ebbafeed)

I'm trying to recover a drive stuck in GSOD bootloop and noticed the magic got set to 37353033 (which is apparently why WinMFS wasn't recognizing the drive as a tivo drive anymore) I think the original magic was abbafeed (indicating MFS32), but I am not sure.


----------



## unitron

jmbach said:


> MFSLive will put a very small Apple_Free partition at the end of the drive after you expand it. Not sure if it does it in all cases, but it did it in all the cases that I have tried. The only way I know how to erase the Apple_Free partition is to do it manually with a hex editor. I have not found a way to accomplish that using pdisk alone.


Apparently one of the "delightful" quirks of the Apple Partition Map is that each partition has info in the header of where all the other partitions are, so you can't just hex erase the last partition and remove it from the Map, you have to hex edit each partition to reflect the removal.


----------



## sfhub

sfhub said:


> Does anyone know if there are any S3 OLEDs that run MFS64 (ie their "magic" in the Super Header is ebbafeed)
> 
> I'm trying to recover a drive stuck in GSOD bootloop and noticed the magic got set to 37353033 (which is apparently why WinMFS wasn't recognizing the drive as a tivo drive anymore) I think the original magic was abbafeed (indicating MFS32), but I am not sure.


Well I can answer this question now, my S3 OLED is using MFS32 with magic abbafeed.

I was able to recover from my GSOD loop.

I had two ideas on how to get out of it. One way was to try and change the magic from 37353033 back to abbafeed. I *think* that 37353033 magic is what is telling TiVo to do keep going into green screen KS 57 mode so my thinking is if I changed it back to abbafeed, it would just boot normally.

I didn't get around to trying that because my other option ended up working. I just dd_rescued the GSOD loop drive onto a new drive and put the drive back in the TiVo. It was able to complete the KS 57 and I got all my shows back.

Out of 750GB I had 64kb of bad sectors causing my GSOD loop.


----------



## sfhub

unitron said:


> Apparently one of the "delightful" quirks of the Apple Partition Map is that each partition has info in the header of where all the other partitions are, so you can't just hex erase the last partition and remove it from the Map, you have to hex edit each partition to reflect the removal.


I found this post about removing apple_free.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8758021#post8758021

According to this post, you zero out block 16 then edit the field in the other partitions that references the total # of partitions to be 15 instead of 16.

So this should be something that can be done relatively easily with dd instead of by hand with hex editor.


----------



## unitron

sfhub said:


> Does anyone know if there are any S3 OLEDs that run MFS64 (ie their "magic" in the Super Header is ebbafeed)
> 
> I'm trying to recover a drive stuck in GSOD bootloop and noticed the magic got set to 37353033 (which is apparently why WinMFS wasn't recognizing the drive as a tivo drive anymore) I think the original magic was abbafeed (indicating MFS32), but I am not sure.


I wish I knew enough about this stuff to have understood that.


----------



## sfhub

Ok, I believe I have now fully recovered from my user initiated Kickstart 57 GSOD loop.

To recap (no pun intended), S3 OLED had some bad caps, replaced them, unit booted, but had reboot issues, ran kickstart 57, got stuck in GSOD reboot loop.

I tried using WinMFS to copy the drive, but WinMFS wouldn't recognize it. It turns out (I believe) TiVo sets the magic cookie identifier for the MFS Super Header to be 37353033 which then triggers the GSOD mfschk (normally the Super Header magic cookie is abbafeed for mfs32 volumes and ebbafeed for mfs64 volumes). WinMFS will only recognize a drive as a TiVo drive if the Super Header magic cookie is abbafeed or ebbafeed. The reason my drive started the GSOD loop was because it had a very small amount of bad sectors. Kickstart 57 does not like bad sectors at all.

Anyway, I ended up using dd_rescue to copy the bad 750GB drive onto a 1TB drive I had available. As an aside, there were only 64KB bad sectors out of 750GB. I didn't expand but immediately put the 1TB drive back into TiVo to let it finish the Kickstart 57, which it did in about 3 hours.

When it was done, TiVo booted and all my recorded shows were available. I tried connecting to the mothership to refresh guide data which was now 3 days from running out. The connect worked, but the Guide Cache and Indexing were taking forever (over 12 hours and counting). 

Until the Guide Cache and Indexing are complete, even though you have guide data in the program guide, none of your season passes will schedule shows to record. Also when you view upcoming episodes, there will be none.

Anyway, I figured the Guide Cache and Indexing was just stuck or hung, possibly due to some issues with the disk.

My solution was to rechoose my video provider:

settings->channels->channel list
press enter to reselect channel provider

What this does is let you choose your zip code and video provider. It will delete your program guide info and redo it from scratch. Your ToDo list is preserved and so is your list of channels you get. This is unlike the Clear Program Information and To Do list option, which will delete your Season Passes.

The new guide download took around 2hrs to download and index and I was back in business. Guide Cache and Indexing were complete.

My ToDo list was still empty, but this was easily solved by going to the ToDo list and reordering 1 season pass entry. After that all the scheduled shows showed up immediately.

Hope this helps someone else who might get stuck in a Kickstart 57 GSOD loop.


----------



## unitron

You know, Clear Program Information and To Do List is a suggested S03 cure (or at least it was 'til the guy's website went offline), I wonder if your provider reset might be a quicker way to fix it.


----------



## sfhub

Not sure what the S03 problem entails, never seen it on my S3 OLED, is it a TiVoHD thing? If it is a guide issue, then I think there is a good chance reselecting the provider will address it.

When I did the provider reselection, it was sitting in "Preparing for download" for a long time, maybe 45minutes. I could hear the disk seeking a lot so I imagine it was probably removing a lot of old guide structures, and likely has the ability to repair/blow away guide data issues.

I also now realize what likely started the random reboots on my drive.

It was actually working fine for a few days after the recapping of the power supply.

I ended up watching some pretty old recordings. One of those shows rebooted consistently at the same spot so I deleted it. I believe that was the show that had the 64kb of bad sectors.

Now when I deleted the show, that disk location probably was scheduled to be freed up and available, but it didn't happen immediately. It got stuck in the recently deleted list.

Coincidentally 2 days later, I ran out of disk space on the unit as it recorded a marathon of shows I wasn't expecting. At that point I believe the space occupied by the show got freed up and started being used to buffer livetv. 

My theory is whenever livetv hit those bad sectors the unit would reboot. The reboot could happen while you were doing anything, program guide, setup, diagnostics, season pass, etc. because it was livetv operating in the background. This correlates well with the 30-60 minute random reboot.

I believe *if* I had just left that bad show and never deleted it, I would still be happily chugging along oblivious to the hard drive issue (as long as I wasn't stupid enough to initiate a kickstart 57 like I did)

So the moral of the story is if you encounter a show that keeps rebooting in the same spot, it is probably best to just leave it alone (and put a big postit on the front saying do NOT run kickstart 57). It can probably last a long time even with the disk errors as long as that corrupt show is essentially "locking out" the bad sectors from further use. Of course, when you have time it is best to start initiating data migration to a new drive using dd_rescue, but best to do that on your own terms, rather than being forced to by random reboots or GSOD boot loop.


----------



## innocentfreak

Could someone please remind me...I have a TiVo HD that died. I thought it was the power supply, but it turned out to be the drive. I have a drive from another TiVo HD tht has never been used. I know I would lose recordings and need to run C&E if the drive had been used. 

Since the drive hasn't been used do I still need to run C&E? I swapped it and it booted fin. System info correctly shows lifetime, but the TSN is all zeros. It is also running some old version 8 software so I am forcing calls to update.


----------



## ThAbtO

innocentfreak said:


> Could someone please remind me...I have a TiVo HD that died. I thought it was the power supply, but it turned out to be the drive. I have a drive from another TiVo HD tht has never been used. I know I would lose recordings and need to run C&E if the drive had been used.
> 
> Since the drive hasn't been used do I still need to run C&E? I swapped it and it booted fin. System info correctly shows lifetime, but the TSN is all zeros. It is also running some old version 8 software so I am forcing calls to update.


Yes, you need to do C&DE to set the TSN as well.


----------



## innocentfreak

Thanks. It has been forever since I upgraded and opulent bother but my sister wants to use it.


----------



## ElPuerco

Just adding a data point since I don't see the drive model listed when I search the forums.

I upgraded my TiVo HD with a Western Digital Blue 1TB drive (WD10EZEX) about 3 weeks ago when my original drive started acting up. Everything went smoothly with the upgrade, and the TiVo has been working just fine ever since.

I think I read elsewhere that "desktop" drives aren't recommended in TiVo's, so I may have problems on down the road. I found a good deal on the drive so I thought I would go for it. Plus, I had alot of urgency because my original drive was quickly dying.

Just wanted to share in case someone else is looking at that same drive.


----------



## mattack

ElPuerco said:


> I think I read elsewhere that "desktop" drives aren't recommended in TiVo's


That's totally a myth. In fact, using anything BUT desktop drives is a waste of money. Get the BIGGEST (as per the limits of the hacking tools currently), SLOWEST drive possible to save money.. Tivos can't use all the speed the drives already have..


----------



## TEDALLAS

unitron said:


> Yeah, it's been confirmed that you can use a 2TB in any S3, the 648, the 652, the 658, and WinMFS will do the job (but you have to do the expand as a separate step instead of accepting the offer at the end of the copy/restore, for some reason), no need for jmfs, provided you're installing an image that's updated at least to 11.0k (which has been around for a few years now, so it's rare not to have it), or provided you do not expand until letting it phone home and update to k (or maybe straight to m).
> 
> jmfs still needed for S4s, though, if you want to copy and expand.


Unitron, I need to ask a S3 & S2 upgrade question and can you PM me if possible.


----------



## donnaj12

Hi
Is there any way to connect two Western My Book AVs together to use with one TiVo premier?
Thanks


----------



## mattack

No. You can use only one.. Even though it's not supported, upgrading the internal drive is really the safest, generally, since you're not depending on TWO drives completely working.


----------



## bigd2008

Hey guys - I have 1TB My DVR Expander for my TivoHD that I have never used. I found that expanding the internal drive was enough recording room for me. Recently, I've been in need of an external NTFS storage drive and have avoided formatting the DVR Expander. My question is if I format it to NTFS and ever decide to use it as an External Tivo drive, am I able to do so? Will my TivoHD take care of formatting, etc? Or is it toast after formatted NTFS?


----------



## ThAbtO

bigd2008 said:


> Hey guys - I have 1TB My DVR Expander for my TivoHD that I have never used. I found that expanding the internal drive was enough recording room for me. Recently, I've been in need of an external NTFS storage drive and have avoided formatting the DVR Expander. My question is if I format it to NTFS and ever decide to use it as an External Tivo drive, am I able to do so? Will my TivoHD take care of formatting, etc? Or is it toast after formatted NTFS?


Tivo does not use NTFS, that is a windows environment mostly.


----------



## unitron

bigd2008 said:


> Hey guys - I have 1TB My DVR Expander for my TivoHD that I have never used. I found that expanding the internal drive was enough recording room for me. Recently, I've been in need of an external NTFS storage drive and have avoided formatting the DVR Expander. My question is if I format it to NTFS and ever decide to use it as an External Tivo drive, am I able to do so? Will my TivoHD take care of formatting, etc? Or is it toast after formatted NTFS?


If it's the actual "made to be used with a TiVo" WD eSATA external (where the drive inside is on the short list of bare drive model numbers other than which everything newer than the original S3 won't accept), then I seem to recall reading that it comes unformatted and the TiVo slaps its version of the Apple Partition Map on it, so it would probably just overwrite the MBR used in the IBM/MS world without ever seeing it.

Of course you could hook it to a PC and boot with something like the MFS Live cd v1.4 or the UBCD and use

dd

or

dd_rescue

to copy from

/dev/zero

to the first few thousand bytes of the drive and it'll look blank to TiVos and Macs and PCs and everything else that's not a specific data recovery program.


----------



## bigd2008

ThAbtO said:


> Tivo does not use NTFS, that is a windows environment mostly.


A windows environment is where I want to repurpose this drive, but my question was more about if can I revert back should I ever decide to.


----------



## bigd2008

unitron said:


> If it's the actual "made to be used with a TiVo" WD eSATA external (where the drive inside is on the short list of bare drive model numbers other than which everything newer than the original S3 won't accept), then I seem to recall reading that it comes unformatted and the TiVo slaps its version of the Apple Partition Map on it, so it would probably just overwrite the MBR used in the IBM/MS world without ever seeing it.


Thanks for the info. It is a TiVo certified drive made for specifically for the TiVoHD and Series3. I've had this thing since I got the DVR, but never opened the box until about two months ago. I seem to remember connecting it to a Linux machine and fdisk -l showed several partitions. Other than doing that, I haven't used the drive.

I would probably never revert back, but I'd at least like to know I could if I wanted to. I wonder if anyone has actually done this?


----------



## unitron

bigd2008 said:


> Thanks for the info. It is a TiVo certified drive made for specifically for the TiVoHD and Series3. I've had this thing since I got the DVR, but never opened the box until about two months ago. I seem to remember connecting it to a Linux machine and fdisk -l showed several partitions. Other than doing that, I haven't used the drive.
> 
> I would probably never revert back, but I'd at least like to know I could if I wanted to. I wonder if anyone has actually done this?


If it had FAT32 or NT partitions, those would show up with

fdisk -l

as well as the partitions on the PC's actual drive, which may be what you saw.

pdisk -l

if that command were available to you, would show Apple Partition Map partitions such as are found on TiVo drives.

The MFS Live cd v1.4, the .iso for which that you can use to burn your own copy is available for free at mfslive.org, has the

pdisk

command and some other useful stuff, like the aforementioned

dd

and

dd_rescue

As long as your PC has an eSATA port I don't see why you can't use it as an NT drive now, and zero out the MBR and hook it to a Tivo later.


----------



## keysman

Hello Community!

Is the information in the first post of this thread still accurate?

I have a Series 3, OLED, thermometer or whatever you wish to call it model TiVo. It's a TCD648250B. The hard drive has died, it won't spin up so I can't create a backup of the system. I want to replace the internal drive with a new one. I'm also thinking about buying a new Roamio after the holidays.

Can I purchase a 2Tb drive now, install it in my S3 and then move it to the Roamio later? I have no plans to retain anything that's on the S3 drive when moving it to the Roamio. In other words, I know I'll loose all the data and recordings on the drive when I move it to the Roamio.

The first post in this thread states that the max size for 1 internal drive in an S3 is 1.35TB. Is that still accurate. I haven't upgraded a TiVo drive since my old Phillips HDR112. I'm thinking about buying a 2TB drive with the idea of moving it to the Roamio Plus. I really don't mind loosing the additional space after formatting the drive for the S3. The S3 is only temporary at this point. Are there newer tools to configure a larger capacity drive for the S3? Would a 1TB drive purchase make the process of getting the S3 back up and running easier?

Finally, is there a recommended drive model that will work in both the S3 and Romaio or again would it just be easier for me if I purcahsed a 1TB drive for the S3 and deal with a Roamio upgrade later.

Thanks.


----------



## A J Ricaud

keysman said:


> Hello Community!
> 
> Is the information in the first post of this thread still accurate?
> 
> I have a Series 3, OLED, thermometer or whatever you wish to call it model TiVo. It's a TCD648250B. The hard drive has died, it won't spin up so I can't create a backup of the system. I want to replace the internal drive with a new one. I'm also thinking about buying a new Roamio after the holidays.
> 
> Can I purchase a 2Tb drive now, install it in my S3 and then move it to the Roamio later? I have no plans to retain anything that's on the S3 drive when moving it to the Roamio. In other words, I know I'll loose all the data and recordings on the drive when I move it to the Roamio.
> 
> The first post in this thread states that the max size for 1 internal drive in an S3 is 1.35TB. Is that still accurate. I haven't upgraded a TiVo drive since my old Phillips HDR112. I'm thinking about buying a 2TB drive with the idea of moving it to the Roamio Plus. I really don't mind loosing the additional space after formatting the drive for the S3. The S3 is only temporary at this point. Are there newer tools to configure a larger capacity drive for the S3? Would a 1TB drive purchase make the process of getting the S3 back up and running easier?
> 
> Finally, is there a recommended drive model that will work in both the S3 and Romaio or again would it just be easier for me if I purcahsed a 1TB drive for the S3 and deal with a Roamio upgrade later.
> 
> Thanks.


You can use a max. 2TB drive in your original S3 by using WINMFS. I just did that myself and it is working fine. When you move it to the Roamio everything is erased and starts from scratch. I believe that you can get an image for your S3 by doing a search in this or the hard drive forum for S3s.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

keysman said:


> Hello Community!
> 
> Finally, is there a recommended drive model that will work in both the S3 and Romaio or again would it just be easier for me if I purcahsed a 1TB drive for the S3 and deal with a Roamio upgrade later.
> 
> Thanks.


You might consider the 1TB drive and a 3TB later for your Roamio, especially if your S3 has lifetime--it'll have better resale value with a working drive.

And if the S3 does not have lifetime, you can get a 3TB drive now and _I THINK_ it will work, it just will not use all the space. Then later you get 460 hours HD in your Roamio vs. the 350 or whatever. Also, for the Roamio, you definitely want lifetime. It more than pays for itself especially when you consider the resale value down the road.


----------



## unitron

keysman said:


> Hello Community!
> 
> Is the information in the first post of this thread still accurate?
> 
> I have a Series 3, OLED, thermometer or whatever you wish to call it model TiVo. It's a TCD648250B. The hard drive has died, it won't spin up so I can't create a backup of the system. I want to replace the internal drive with a new one. I'm also thinking about buying a new Roamio after the holidays.
> 
> Can I purchase a 2Tb drive now, install it in my S3 and then move it to the Roamio later? I have no plans to retain anything that's on the S3 drive when moving it to the Roamio. In other words, I know I'll loose all the data and recordings on the drive when I move it to the Roamio.
> 
> The first post in this thread states that the max size for 1 internal drive in an S3 is 1.35TB. Is that still accurate. I haven't upgraded a TiVo drive since my old Phillips HDR112. I'm thinking about buying a 2TB drive with the idea of moving it to the Roamio Plus. I really don't mind loosing the additional space after formatting the drive for the S3. The S3 is only temporary at this point. Are there newer tools to configure a larger capacity drive for the S3? Would a 1TB drive purchase make the process of getting the S3 back up and running easier?
> 
> Finally, is there a recommended drive model that will work in both the S3 and Romaio or again would it just be easier for me if I purcahsed a 1TB drive for the S3 and deal with a Roamio upgrade later.
> 
> Thanks.


First pull the drive you have now and hook it to a PC and see if it shows up in BIOS, and then run the manufacturer's long test on it.

If it's the original 250 GB WD, it probably is bad to a greater or lesser extent, but let's be sure that the drive and only the drive is the problem.

And, as I indicated in the image thread, check the power supply caps while you've got it open.

As for a new drive, find an under $100 dollar deal on a WD20EURS somewhere and use WinMFS to expand into all of it, but do the expansion as a separate step from any copying or restoring after turning down the post-copy or post-restore offer to expand.

When the time comes you should be able to slip it into a Series 5 and have it write its own image right to it (unlike the previous S4s, S3s, S2s, and S1s), overwriting everything on it, but by that time you'll probably want to leave the 2TB in the S3 and get a 3 or maybe 4 TB drive for the S5, since they can use bigger than 2TB drives, and 3TBs will probably be as cheap down the road as 2TB drives are now (and 2TB drives will probably be harder to find then also)

Also, if that S3 is lifetimed, you'll need a drive in it to sell it, and apparently that ain't gonna be the original 250.


----------



## keysman

Thanks again Unitron for your very detailed response. Thanks to everyone else for your responses as well.

I pulled the drive from the TiVo already, connected it to my PC with the WD DOS diagnostic CD. BIOS doesn't see the drive, so of course the CD doesn't see it either. Before it went down for the count I heard the drive making the dreaded clicking sound.


----------



## lpwcomp

ThreeSoFar said:


> You might consider the 1TB drive and a 3TB later for your Roamio, especially if your S3 has lifetime--it'll have better resale value with a working drive.
> 
> And if the S3 does not have lifetime, you can get a 3TB drive now and _I THINK_ it will work, it just will not use all the space. Then later you get 460 hours HD in your Roamio vs. the 350 or whatever. Also, for the Roamio, you definitely want lifetime. It more than pays for itself especially when you consider the resale value down the road.


I'm not sure the S3 can use a 3TB drive at all, even if you limit the formatted portion to 2.2TB.


----------



## unitron

lpwcomp said:


> I'm not sure the S3 can use a 3TB drive at all, even if you limit the formatted portion to 2.2TB.


Someone around here who knows enough to know what they're talking about mentioned the other day that even if you limit the partitioned space to 2TB or under an S3 will just refuse to boot if the drive's bigger than 2TB--he had tried a 2.5

If I had a PC that could use anything bigger than a 2 I'd get a 3 and use

hdparm

and switches I won't mention publicly to set it to report an LBA number = or < what a 2 reports and see if they could be fooled that way.


----------



## keysman

I have a new Seagate 1.5TB 7200.11 drive sitting on my shelf. I know it's not an ideal drive and I know there were firmware issues with that drive but could I use it in the TiVo? It's a ST310500341AS. It has the CC1H firmware on it so I think it's good on that front. I know it will run hotter and louder but it's just sitting on a shelf looking for a home.


----------



## unitron

keysman said:


> I have a new Seagate 1.5TB 7200.11 drive sitting on my shelf. I know it's not an ideal drive and I know there were firmware issues with that drive but could I use it in the TiVo? It's a ST310500341AS. It has the CC1H firmware on it so I think it's good on that front. I know it will run hotter and louder but it's just sitting on a shelf looking for a home.


Google turns up almost no hits for that model number, it seems to be an Asian and Australian market only model.

But you could probably use it in an S3, just be sure you've got plenty of airflow into the TiVo chassis, maybe put some taller rubber feet on the bottom to create more airspace underneath.


----------



## ggieseke

The "AS" drives are pretty rare. They were specifically rated for RAID systems and right on the edge of enterprise class drives. They also cost about 30% more.

I have three of the 2TB version in my PC and I love them. They're quiet and don't seem to run any hotter than the WD Green drives next to them.


----------



## keysman

I fat fingered that, it's an ST31500341AS.


----------



## keysman

I was able to get my original TiVo drive running long enough to make a truncated backup with WinMFS. Yeah! 

If I'm able to get the drive spinning again and keep it spinning long enough to back up the whole thing, can I do that with the MFS Live CD, backup the drive and expand it all in one step using this command?

backup -qTao - /dev/sda | restore -s 128 -r 4 -xzpi - /dev/sdb

or whatever my drive assignments are.

Will I get to a full 1.5TB using that method.


----------



## ThAbtO

WinMFS will work to backup, restore and expand. No excess typing needed either.


----------



## unitron

keysman said:


> I was able to get my original TiVo drive running long enough to make a truncated backup with WinMFS. Yeah!
> 
> If I'm able to get the drive spinning again and keep it spinning long enough to back up the whole thing, can I do that with the MFS Live CD, backup the drive and expand it all in one step using this command?
> 
> backup -qTao - /dev/sda | restore -s 128 -r 4 -xzpi - /dev/sdb
> 
> or whatever my drive assignments are.
> 
> Will I get to a full 1.5TB using that method.


Apparently the original 250GB WD drives in 648s are dropping like flies right about now.

I would suggest

backup -Tao - /dev/sda | restore -s *xxx* -pi - /dev/sdb

where *xxx* is the swap size you want to use.

I think if you don't include the

-s

switch (or option*), then it'll just go ahead and make it 128(MB) like the source drive, but using it and specifying 128 won't hurt anything--just don't go lower.

[*a

-

(a hyphen) in these circumstances, following a command (like

backup

which is a command to run the backup program), and which is followed immediately by another character, usually a letter, denotes that the next thing to follow is an option that you've decided to invoke.]

You notice I left the

-q

out of the first part and the

-xz

out of the second.

Instead of the

-v

for _verbose_ that lots of Linux/Unix command line utilities seem to use,

verbose is the default, and

-q

is used to override that and achieve "quiet" mode.

Me, I want to see what's going on as I sit there nervously fearing disaster.

The

Ta

part is the

-T

and the

-a

switches invoked together and since they don't need to be followed by a value, like swap size, they can share that hyphen.

(I forget exactly what T and a stand for, but the combination make sure everything gets copied, including all recordings and settings)

Also sharing that hyphen is the

o

which stands for "output" and the thing that follows it is supposed to be where the output of the backup command is supposed to go.

In this case the hyphen that follows the "o" indicates that it's supposed to go to something called "stdout" or something like that, which is short for standard output, I think, and is sort of a holding place in memory.

One the other side of the thing

|

that's going to "pipe" backup's output out of sdtout to the restore command by way of STDIN you'll see I left off

-xz

or zx or whatever.

-x

is the "expand after you finish copying option for restore, and I've seen it fail too many times.

Do the copy, check the target with

pdisk -l /dev/sdb

and see if you don't have an Apple Partition Map with a big Apple Free partition at the end (that's what the APM labels an unpartitioned space--it turns it into a partition that can't be used for anything until it gets turned into some other kind of partition)

Then

mfsinfo /dev/sdb

to make sure it reports everything's okey-dokey with the target drive.

Then mfsadd /dev/sdb will do the actual expansion.

-z

"zeroes out" the alternate boot partitions, but I don't see what that accomplishes and if you don't include it, it can't screw anything up.

-p

causes restore to use the "optimized" partition layout that they introduced on the S2s.

Always use it with an S2 or S3, do not use it with an S1, and doing it wrong won't come back to bite you months later, because it'll be the way it's supposed to be.

and

-i

followed by a space and a hyphen tells restore to use STDIN as its input--if it had been -i space some file name or something else, it would use that instead.

-r

is no longer considered necessary, and if you don't fully understand why it came into being in the first place you'll probably have as much chance of choosing the wrong value to follow as the right one.

The reason the original, which I assume you copied from somewhere, didn't go

-srxzpi

is that

-s

needs a value to follow it before anything else comes along so that it's known that that value is intended to be used with -s, and the same thing for

-r

but x, z, and p are just "use this option", as opposed to "don't use it because you haven't been specifically told to use it", and

-i

is at the end of that string so a space and a hyphen following tell the command what to do with

-i

which you should have figured out by now means "input", just like "o", on the other side of the pipe, meant output.

All that said, it would be easier to use WinMFS to do it, provided you turn down its offer to expand and then do the expansion as a separate step using WinMFS's mfsadd command.

So why all the detail for a method I'm recommending you not bother with?

So that some future searcher will learn the easy way what I learned the hard way.


----------



## sfhub

keysman said:


> I was able to get my original TiVo drive running long enough to make a truncated backup with WinMFS. Yeah!
> 
> If I'm able to get the drive spinning again and keep it spinning long enough to back up the whole thing, can I do that with the MFS Live CD, backup the drive and expand it all in one step using this command?
> 
> backup -qTao - /dev/sda | restore -s 128 -r 4 -xzpi - /dev/sdb
> 
> or whatever my drive assignments are.
> 
> Will I get to a full 1.5TB using that method.


IMO if you have a drive starting to die the chances of bad sectors are also high.

Therefore in the time you have your drive spinning, the best thing to do is dd_rescue the dying drive onto a new drive. dd_rescue can skip errors replacing them with zeros, whereas the regular tools will likely hang/timeout

You don't know how many bites at the apple you are going to get with this drive so best to get as much off as you can as soon as you can.

Once the data is on a new drive you have the luxury of taking your time.


----------



## keysman

Thanks everyone for the help. I tried to clone the original internal drive. I was able to get it up and running along side the 1.5TB Seagate but it wouldn't stay running long enough to copy the drive. I was however able restore the backup I made of the drive a few days ago. I expanded the drive using MFSAdd and ignored the warning about the drive being larger than 1TB and told it to expand anyway. Now the drive is back in the TiVo, up and running. It said I have, I think, 237 Hours of HD.

I lost all the recordings but it was great to not loose the settings, season passes, ratings, etc.

Thanks again to everyone for the help.


----------



## unitron

keysman said:


> Thanks everyone for the help. I tried to clone the original internal drive. I was able to get it up and running along side the 1.5TB Seagate but it wouldn't stay running long enough to copy the drive. I was however able restore the backup I made of the drive a few days ago. I expanded the drive using MFSAdd and ignored the warning about the drive being larger than 1TB and told it to expand anyway. Now the drive is back in the TiVo, up and running. It said I have, I think, 237 Hours of HD.
> 
> I lost all the recordings but it was great to not loose the settings, season passes, ratings, etc.
> 
> Thanks again to everyone for the help.


Ever since at least version 11.0k of the S3 software, you can ignore the partition too large warning, but to successfully max it out with a 2TB drive, you have to copy, via WinMFS, and turn down the offer to expand, and then expand via mfsadd as a separate step.


----------



## zwbqgk

unitron:
Regarding expanding to a >1TB drive in a S3 (original) using WinMFS, I've seen you write "you have to do the expand as a separate step instead of accepting the offer at the end of the copy/restore, for some reason" in several messages, but haven't been able to find any explanation.

I didn't see your advice before accepting WinMFS's offer. The resulting partition map looked reasonable (1.6T in the last partition). The TiVo rebooted, seemingly without incident. It now reports 318HD hours capacity. The first attempt to load new program data failed (from what looked like a network problem), and the second attempt is taking a long time, but it is loading now.

Can you explain what you think goes wrong when accepting the offer to expand? It looked like it just ran the same "Mfsadd" work that I would have done later.

If there is something subtle wrong, I can certainly repeat the copy, and I'd rather do that now than later. But it doesn't look to me like anything is wrong.

Thanks for all your help!


----------



## jmbach

If it worked for you then it is fine. What happens for many people is that if you say yes to expand right after you copy, WinMFS just sits and stares at you and does nothing. So by saying no to the expand right after copy, then use MFSAdd to expand, it works all the time. That's all. Nothing more. Why it does that, nobody knows.


----------



## unitron

jmbach said:


> If it worked for you then it is fine. What happens for many people is that if you say yes to expand right after you copy, WinMFS just sits and stares at you and does nothing. So by saying no to the expand right after copy, then use MFSAdd to expand, it works all the time. That's all. Nothing more. Why it does that, nobody knows.


But MFS Live seems to have a problem with expanding as part of a copy and expand sometimes as well (although I'm not sure if it can handle 2TB drives to begin with.)

I don't know if the problem goes all the way back to MFS Tools or not.

And another WinMFS trick to look out for is if you're doing a drive to drive copy it'll sometimes sit there and appear frozen, but it's actually working and you just have to give it some time and realize that amazing computer accuracy does not extend to progress bars.


----------



## unitron

zwbqgk said:


> unitron:
> Regarding expanding to a >1TB drive in a S3 (original) using WinMFS, I've seen you write "you have to do the expand as a separate step instead of accepting the offer at the end of the copy/restore, for some reason" in several messages, but haven't been able to find any explanation.
> 
> I didn't see your advice before accepting WinMFS's offer. The resulting partition map looked reasonable (1.6T in the last partition). The TiVo rebooted, seemingly without incident. It now reports 318HD hours capacity. The first attempt to load new program data failed (from what looked like a network problem), and the second attempt is taking a long time, but it is loading now.
> 
> Can you explain what you think goes wrong when accepting the offer to expand? It looked like it just ran the same "Mfsadd" work that I would have done later.
> 
> If there is something subtle wrong, I can certainly repeat the copy, and I'd rather do that now than later. But it doesn't look to me like anything is wrong.
> 
> Thanks for all your help!


That last partition wasn't shown in the partition map (that you get when you click mfsinfo) as an Apple Free partition by any chance, was it?


----------



## jmbach

unitron said:


> But MFS Live seems to have a problem with expanding as part of a copy and expand sometimes as well (although I'm not sure if it can handle 2TB drives to begin with.)
> 
> I don't know if the problem goes all the way back to MFS Tools or not.
> 
> And another WinMFS trick to look out for is if you're doing a drive to drive copy it'll sometimes sit there and appear frozen, but it's actually working and you just have to give it some time and realize that amazing computer accuracy does not extend to progress bars.


MFSLive does not handle 2TB well. It can be recompiled to handle 2TB drives once some variable declarations are modified to a double word length. I have been slowly working on this as the amount of time I can give this project on any one day is very limited. Oh well. If work just would not interfere......


----------



## 1283

jmbach said:


> MFSLive does not handle 2TB well.


I had no problem using mfslive-1.4.iso to expand a TiVo HD 2TB drive, after dd.


----------



## jmbach

c3 said:


> I had no problem using mfslive-1.4.iso to expand a TiVo HD 2TB drive, after dd.


Not all functions have problems with 2TB drives. I noticed you used dd to copy the drive. Have you try copying the drive with MFSBackup/MFSRestore commands?


----------



## 1283

jmbach said:


> Not all functions have problems with 2TB drives. I noticed you used dd to copy the drive. Have you try copying the drive with MFSBackup/MFSRestore commands?


I don't think I tried those commands. I used MFSLive in this experiment:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9717290#post9717290


----------



## jmbach

c3 said:


> I don't think I tried those commands. I used MFSLive in this experiment:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9717290#post9717290


I remember that experiment. Have you noticed any improvement.


----------



## John Wilson

unitron said:


> And another WinMFS trick to look out for is if you're doing a drive to drive copy it'll sometimes sit there and appear frozen, but it's actually working and you just have to give it some time and realize that amazing computer accuracy does not extend to progress bars.


This post is so timely as I'm right now copying a once-expanded 1TB drive in a 652-model to a 2 TB drive using WinMFS. I started last night at 11:17 pm and at 9:52 am this morning it was still copying. The progress bar ( I know I can't trust it) was at about 60%. Both drives are hooked to Sata channels so I thought that would speed things up somewhat. I am copying about 130 HD recordings so is this a reasonable time or is something amiss? Both drives are still spinning and the original 1TB had no issues going into this; just wanted more capacity. 

Thanks for your opinions.


----------



## unitron

John Wilson said:


> This post is so timely as I'm right now copying a once-expanded 1TB drive in a 652-model to a 2 TB drive using WinMFS. I started last night at 11:17 pm and at 9:52 am this morning it was still copying. The progress bar ( I know I can't trust it) was at about 60%. Both drives are hooked to Sata channels so I thought that would speed things up somewhat. I am copying about 130 HD recordings so is this a reasonable time or is something amiss? Both drives are still spinning and the original 1TB had no issues going into this; just wanted more capacity.
> 
> Thanks for your opinions.


So, did it ever finish?


----------



## John Wilson

unitron said:


> So, did it ever finish?


No. I "pulled the plug" on it after 17 hours. I guess I either have too little patience  or WinMFS doesn't like the big copy jobs. I guess I'll spend the time to transfer off some shows and just use the truncated image to get my 2TB online.

Wish I knew what the magic amount of shows (HD hours) WinMFS can handle in a reasonable amount of time.


----------



## nooneuknow

John Wilson said:


> No. I "pulled the plug" on it after 17 hours. I guess I either have too little patience  or WinMFS doesn't like the big copy jobs. I guess I'll spend the time to transfer off some shows and just use the truncated image to get my 2TB online.
> 
> Wish I knew what the magic amount of shows (HD hours) WinMFS can handle in a reasonable amount of time.


I could've swore it was all about a smaller window being hidden behind the larger on, and there WAS some way to force the small window to the foreground, even though it doesn't appear on the taskbar as a window...

I don't remember the trick to do it, but when I did, and still used WinMFS, things happened at a good clip, just so long as none of the drives involved had back sectors or I/O issues...


----------



## unitron

John Wilson said:


> No. I "pulled the plug" on it after 17 hours. I guess I either have too little patience  or WinMFS doesn't like the big copy jobs. I guess I'll spend the time to transfer off some shows and just use the truncated image to get my 2TB online.
> 
> Wish I knew what the magic amount of shows (HD hours) WinMFS can handle in a reasonable amount of time.


It should have finished in that length of time, so something must be amiss.


----------



## 1283

jmbach said:


> I remember that experiment. Have you noticed any improvement.


It was a one-time upgrade that I did for someone else. I have not used a 4KB drive in TiVo HD myself, so I don't have a reference point for comparison.


----------



## ubell

My original 250GB internal S3 drive had started having problems. I could hear it reseeking and then eventually crashing the TiVo. I ordered a ST3500312cs and copied the data from the old drive to my Linux box while I waited for delivery. I used the dd command and was happy that there were no disk errors reported.

Having a backup, I put the drive back onto the TiVo to let it limp along till the new one arrived. The drive then ran without problems for 36 hours. 

Fearing that it still might fail I copied the drive image to the new drive and installed it. The S3 stuck on "powering up". The drive appeared to not be powered up. Do I need to configure the drive in some way? (I know I would only get 250GB by doing this, I have an external 1TB as well.)


----------



## unitron

ubell said:


> My original 250GB internal S3 drive had started having problems. I could hear it reseeking and then eventually crashing the TiVo. I ordered a ST3500312cs and copied the data from the old drive to my Linux box while I waited for delivery. I used the dd command and was happy that there were no disk errors reported.
> 
> Having a backup, I put the drive back onto the TiVo to let it limp along till the new one arrived. The drive then ran without problems for 36 hours.
> 
> Fearing that it still might fail I copied the drive image to the new drive and installed it. The S3 stuck on "powering up". The drive appeared to not be powered up. Do I need to configure the drive in some way? (I know I would only get 250GB by doing this, I have an external 1TB as well.)


That external drive greatly complicates things.

When you say you copied the data from the old internal to your Linux box, do you mean you used something like

dd

or

ddrescue

and created a file at least 250GB in size?

It really would have been better if you'd stopped using the old internal right then to save whatever life it has left, but that's water under the bridge.

Even if we're successful, I'm pretty sure that external means you'll only be able to use the first 250GB of that 500GB Seagate, and I may have to PM you how to do something risky with

hdparm


----------



## ubell

As I said, I used dd. The file is 250GB. Having gotten a backup of the internal drive I figured there was probably little downside to using it some more. Sequentially reading the whole drive seems to have been good for it as its still running without error.

I am not really concerned about getting the extra 250GB from the Seagate, I'd just like to to spin when I hook it up to my TiVo. You think there is an hdparm setting that I need to tweek?


----------



## unitron

ubell said:


> As I said, I used dd. The file is 250GB. Having gotten a backup of the internal drive I figured there was probably little downside to using it some more. Sequentially reading the whole drive seems to have been good for it as its still running without error.
> 
> I am not really concerned about getting the extra 250GB from the Seagate, I'd just like to to spin when I hook it up to my TiVo. You think there is an hdparm setting that I need to tweek?


No, what we do is use

hdparm

to create a Host Protected Area on the 500GB drive that makes it look like it has the exact same LBA number as the stock 250, then

dd

the image to it, so that we don't run into a problem with the problem of an external causing a problem if the total drive space used is greater than original internal + external.

Speaking of HPA's, you aren't using a GigaByte brand motherboard, are you?

But first, if you didn't already run Seagate's long test before putting that 500 into service, do it now.

And while you've got the TiVo opened, eyeball the power supply capacitors very closely for the slightest hint of bulging.


----------



## ubell

I actually did try booting the S3 with the external drive disconnected and got the same result. I don't know if that means anything.

Ok, so we want to resize the drive so it looks like a 250GB drive. You want to suggest the correct incantation?

It seems like this could be done after the dd since the metadata in the drive is not writable by normal I/O. 

My PC is a Dell, I assume they use their own motherboard.


----------



## ubell

Ok, I spent enough time pawing through the man pages and it seems I want:
hdparm -N 488386584 --yes-i-know-what-i-am-doing /dev/sdb


----------



## ubell

That had no effect, the drive still does not spin up when I put it in the S3. Are there any other parameters I should check?


----------



## lpwcomp

ubell said:


> That had no effect, the drive still does not spin up when I put it in the S3. Are there any other parameters I should check?


If the drive does not even spin up, then the drive configuration is not the problem. I would suspect a power supply problem. Take a look at the caps on the ps and see if any of them are bulging.


----------



## ubell

I don't see any bulging. The old drive works just fine. The new drive pull less than 1/3 of the power of the old drive.


----------



## jmbach

Not sure where you got your drive from but I'll give you my experience with another Seagate AV drive. I bought one version that was retail bulk that worked flawlessly. The other one I bought off of an online auction that advertise as new. To make a long story short, the drive was new but was designed for a particular satellite box. The drive would spin up only on my newest computer attached as a SATA drive from boot. It would not spin up if used as an ESATA drive plugged in after boot. It would not work on my older computer at all and would not spin up on the TiVo at all. After multiple calls with Seagate support, the drive had a modified firmware that was designed for the satellite box it was destined for. They would not give me the retail firmware for the drive. Consequently I returned it. Don't know if this applies to you but I thought I would share the experience.


----------



## unitron

ubell said:


> Ok, I spent enough time pawing through the man pages and it seems I want:
> hdparm -N 488386584 --yes-i-know-what-i-am-doing /dev/sdb


The LBA number for the two WD 250GB drives I've seen in the two 648s I've had my hands on (WD2500BS-55RPB1) is

488397168

and you left something out of that command line as well.

So I hope no one else saw it and tried to use it before I got here.

What's the model number on the 250 in your 648?


----------



## ubell

jmbach said:


> Not sure where you got your drive from but I'll give you my experience with another Seagate AV drive. I bought one version that was retail bulk that worked flawlessly. The other one I bought off of an online auction that advertise as new. To make a long story short, the drive was new but was designed for a particular satellite box. The drive would spin up only on my newest computer attached as a SATA drive from boot. It would not spin up if used as an ESATA drive plugged in after boot. It would not work on my older computer at all and would not spin up on the TiVo at all. After multiple calls with Seagate support, the drive had a modified firmware that was designed for the satellite box it was destined for. They would not give me the retail firmware for the drive. Consequently I returned it. Don't know if this applies to you but I thought I would share the experience.


Interesting. I got it on Amazon. Sold by Eonline. Anyway to tell if it has the stock firmware?


----------



## ubell

unitron said:


> The LBA number for the two WD 250GB drives I've seen in the two 648s I've had my hands on (WD2500BS-55RPB1) is
> 
> 488397168
> 
> and you left something out of that command line as well.
> 
> So I hope no one else saw it and tried to use it before I got here.
> 
> What's the model number on the 250 in your 648?


I just cut the size in 1/2. I can try your number but I don't see how the HPA size would effect if the drive spins up or not.

And what does "and you left something out of that command line as well" mean? Why be so cryptic?


----------



## ubell

jmbach said:


> Not sure where you got your drive from but I'll give you my experience with another Seagate AV drive. I bought one version that was retail bulk that worked flawlessly. The other one I bought off of an online auction that advertise as new. To make a long story short, the drive was new but was designed for a particular satellite box. The drive would spin up only on my newest computer attached as a SATA drive from boot. It would not spin up if used as an ESATA drive plugged in after boot. It would not work on my older computer at all and would not spin up on the TiVo at all. After multiple calls with Seagate support, the drive had a modified firmware that was designed for the satellite box it was destined for. They would not give me the retail firmware for the drive. Consequently I returned it. Don't know if this applies to you but I thought I would share the experience.


That seems like it was a good enough hint. While looking through the hdparm man page I noticed the -s "Power up in standby". Disabling that gets the drive to spin in my TiVo. The TiVo is not quite happy yet, so I guess Ill go back to fiddling with the HPA.

Thanks!


----------



## ubell

The model of my stock drive is WD2500BS


----------



## John Wilson

Well, I spent the last few DAYS copying off the shows that I wanted onto another TiVo HD. After that I put the original drive in the PC and made a truncated image .tbk. I then connected the new WD 2 TB drive WD20EURS and restored the truncated image with a swap size of 1024MB. It completed and I did not expand the drive at this time. I then installed that drive and powered it up to make sure everything was working. Good thing I did! It brought up the Powering Up... screen and then after a time it brought up the Almost there... screen. Looking good so far. I've done this on a number of other S2 and S3 models so I was feeling pretty confident that all was well. Then it re-booted back to the Powering Up... screen again. I said to myself "WTF?" Then I got the Green screen which basically states that "the DVR has detected a serious problem and is now attempting to fix it. This will take about 3 hours."

Crap. I thought that maybe the truncated image wasn't correct so I pulled the plug, connected the original 1 TB drive to the PC, made another image and again restored it to the 2 TB drive. Same result. This is new territory for me so I'm looking for some help. Should I put the original 1 TB drive back in the TiVo and do a Clear & Delete and then make a new truncated image? Can I just delete the recordings or is a C&D necessary? What does the C&D do to my settings or Cable Card info? I did notice that the original 1 TB drive has 15 partitions but the restored 2 TB (before expanding) has only 14 partitions. Is this normal?

What course of action should I take at this point using WinMFS?


unitron said:


> It should have finished in that length of time, so something must be amiss.


----------



## unitron

ubell said:


> I just cut the size in 1/2. I can try your number but I don't see how the HPA size would effect if the drive spins up or not.
> 
> And what does "and you left something out of that command line as well" mean? Why be so cryptic?


I'll be glad to discuss

hdparm

options that are dangerous in beginner's hands in PMs, but I'm a little hesitant to do it out in the open.

I've never used an external on a TiVo myself, but I've seen discussion either here or the mfslive.org site or both by people who know more about all of this than do I that says using an external limits you to using internals the same size as the one from the factory.

The HPA trick is to make it look like it's the same size.

Your original internal should have the LBA number on the label, which is the number you want to use, because that's the amount of space a restored image should fill, and that LBA number is the one you use with

hdparm

(it's whatever's left over that determines the size of the HPA)


----------



## unitron

John Wilson said:


> Well, I spent the last few DAYS copying off the shows that I wanted onto another TiVo HD. After that I put the original drive in the PC and made a truncated image .tbk. I then connected the new WD 2 TB drive WD20EURS and restored the truncated image with a swap size of 1024MB. It completed and I did not expand the drive at this time. I then installed that drive and powered it up to make sure everything was working. Good thing I did! It brought up the Powering Up... screen and then after a time it brought up the Almost there... screen. Looking good so far. I've done this on a number of other S2 and S3 models so I was feeling pretty confident that all was well. Then it re-booted back to the Powering Up... screen again. I said to myself "WTF?" Then I got the Green screen which basically states that "the DVR has detected a serious problem and is now attempting to fix it. This will take about 3 hours."
> 
> Crap. I thought that maybe the truncated image wasn't correct so I pulled the plug, connected the original 1 TB drive to the PC, made another image and again restored it to the 2 TB drive. Same result. This is new territory for me so I'm looking for some help. Should I put the original 1 TB drive back in the TiVo and do a Clear & Delete and then make a new truncated image? Can I just delete the recordings or is a C&D necessary? What does the C&D do to my settings or Cable Card info? I did notice that the original 1 TB drive has 15 partitions but the restored 2 TB (before expanding) has only 14 partitions. Is this normal?
> 
> What course of action should I take at this point using WinMFS?


The restoration should produce the original 13 partitions and they should be the same size as on the original, installed at the factory, internal drive.

(except for the swap partition)

However, even with a 1GB swap, you aren't going to fill 2TBs, so there's going to be a 14th partition, which will be an Apple Free Partition, which is what the Apple Partition Map scheme labels free space that's not partitioned.

When you go back to a larger than original drive with either MFS Live or WinMFS to expand, it takes that Apple Free Partition and turns it into an MFS pair, a small one that's an MFS Application region, and a big one that's an MFS Media region.

WinMFS should run that 15th partition all the way out to the end of the drive--sometimes the MFS Live cd leaves a little bit of space that becomes a 16th partition of the Apple Free variety.

Clear and delete everything will do just that--everything you've added since it left the factory will be wiped out and when it finishes and reboots it'll be at the start of Guided Setup and you have to go through all of that again.

Run wdidle3.exe on that WD20EURS, just to be absolutely sure that Intellipark is disabled, then put it back and let it green screen overnight.

By the time you can report the results of that, I'll have had some sleep.


----------



## lpwcomp

John Wilson said:


> Well, I spent the last few DAYS copying off the shows that I wanted onto another TiVo HD. After that I put the original drive in the PC and made a truncated image .tbk. I then connected the new WD 2 TB drive WD20EURS and restored the truncated image with a swap size of 1024MB. It completed and I did not expand the drive at this time. I then installed that drive and powered it up to make sure everything was working. Good thing I did! It brought up the Powering Up... screen and then after a time it brought up the Almost there... screen. Looking good so far. I've done this on a number of other S2 and S3 models so I was feeling pretty confident that all was well. Then it re-booted back to the Powering Up... screen again. I said to myself "WTF?" Then I got the Green screen which basically states that "the DVR has detected a serious problem and is now attempting to fix it. This will take about 3 hours."
> 
> Crap. I thought that maybe the truncated image wasn't correct so I pulled the plug, connected the original 1 TB drive to the PC, made another image and again restored it to the 2 TB drive. Same result. This is new territory for me so I'm looking for some help. Should I put the original 1 TB drive back in the TiVo and do a Clear & Delete and then make a new truncated image? Can I just delete the recordings or is a C&D necessary? What does the C&D do to my settings or Cable Card info? I did notice that the original 1 TB drive has 15 partitions but the restored 2 TB (before expanding) has only 14 partitions. Is this normal?
> 
> What course of action should I take at this point using WinMFS?


IIRC, there are problems trying to do what you are trying to do, i.e. using WinMFS to expand a previously expanded drive. You _may_ be able to do it with JMFS using the instructions here, but I don't know for sure. Hopefully, someone with more knowledge about it will "speak" up. It would also require having both drives hooked up to the computer at the same time.

P.S. I noticed unitron "spoke" up before I posted this, but I am going ahead anyway, just in case JMFS is a possibility.


----------



## John Wilson

unitron said:


> The restoration should produce the original 13 partitions and they should be the same size as on the original, installed at the factory, internal drive.
> 
> (except for the swap partition)
> 
> However, even with a 1GB swap, you aren't going to fill 2TBs, so there's going to be a 14th partition, which will be an Apple Free Partition, which is what the Apple Partition Map scheme labels free space that's not partitioned.
> 
> When you go back to a larger than original drive with either MFS Live or WinMFS to expand, it takes that Apple Free Partition and turns it into an MFS pair, a small one that's an MFS Application region, and a big one that's an MFS Media region.
> 
> WinMFS should run that 15th partition all the way out to the end of the drive--sometimes the MFS Live cd leaves a little bit of space that becomes a 16th partition of the Apple Free variety.
> 
> Clear and delete everything will do just that--everything you've added since it left the factory will be wiped out and when it finishes and reboots it'll be at the start of Guided Setup and you have to go through all of that again.
> 
> Run wdidle3.exe on that WD20EURS, just to be absolutely sure that Intellipark is disabled, then put it back and let it green screen overnight.
> 
> By the time you can report the results of that, I'll have had some sleep.


Unitron,
Thanks for your reply. I have great news; sometime between hours 2 and 2.5 (don't ask how I know  ) it rebooted and came up normally. All the settings were intact but there were no listings of the programs as usually happens when you have some recordings and you just restore from the backup image. I'm thinking it went through some kind of a C&D during the green screen. I didn't get around to running wdidle.exe as I was so excited to have a working
drive. I connected one more time and did the mfsadd and then the supersize. It says it failed the supersize but when I checked the system info its reporting 318 HD hours ! wdidle.exe must have been enabled in this WD20EURS from the factory as I'm able to restart it with no issues.

Project done. Thanks for the posts with suggestions. This Forum is the greatest!:up:


----------



## unitron

John Wilson said:


> Unitron,
> Thanks for your reply. I have great news; sometime between hours 2 and 2.5 (don't ask how I know  ) it rebooted and came up normally. All the settings were intact but there were no listings of the programs as usually happens when you have some recordings and you just restore from the backup image. I'm thinking it went through some kind of a C&D during the green screen. I didn't get around to running wdidle.exe as I was so excited to have a working
> drive. I connected one more time and did the mfsadd and then the supersize. It says it failed the supersize but when I checked the system info its reporting 318 HD hours ! wdidle.exe must have been enabled in this WD20EURS from the factory as I'm able to restart it with no issues.
> 
> Project done. Thanks for the posts with suggestions. This Forum is the greatest!:up:


Just to be picky, the "feature" is Intellipark, and wdidle3.exe is the utility with which one enables it/sets the timer period or disables it (which, if you have a particular WD green drive that won't let you disable Intellipark, can be done as far as a TiVo is concerned by setting the timer period to 300 seconds, which is 5 minutes).

It's called the "Green Screen of Death" because of the old Microsoft DOS/Windows Blue Screen of Death, known as BSOD, but TiVo's green screen is actually a good thing because it's really the "green screen of 'give me some time to work through some issues I'm having' ", and for it to still be in good enough shape to be able to invoke the green screen in the first place is a good sign, and you should just let it alone for a while to work things out for itself.

A solid, uniform gray screen with no letters or anything is a different matter, and indicates some kind of imperfect communication between the motherboard and the hard drive (multiple possible causes from loose cable to expensive to fix things), and requires a more active intervention.


----------



## ubell

unitron said:


> I'll be glad to discuss
> 
> hdparm
> 
> options that are dangerous in beginner's hands in PMs, but I'm a little hesitant to do it out in the open.
> 
> I've never used an external on a TiVo myself, but I've seen discussion either here or the mfslive.org site or both by people who know more about all of this than do I that says using an external limits you to using internals the same size as the one from the factory.
> 
> The HPA trick is to make it look like it's the same size.
> 
> Your original internal should have the LBA number on the label, which is the number you want to use, because that's the amount of space a restored image should fill, and that LBA number is the one you use with
> 
> hdparm
> 
> (it's whatever's left over that determines the size of the HPA)


I would not think this forum is the novice, if you open the box you better know what you are doing.

In any case, my problem was the drive being configured to power up in idle. With a fresh copy of the old image and a matching LBA all is well (I don't know which or both of those two was necessary.)

As far as using an internal drive larger than the original with an external drive, I almost did an experiment with that, but decided my day job took priority. http://www.mfslive.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=811&p=6970#p6970
I was tempted to try it now with the 500GB, but I spent too long trying to get it to spin.

Thanks for your comments.


----------



## Raoul99

Hey guys...I've been gone quite a while, and haven't kept up on this stuff. I read the FAQ on the first page of this thread, and tried to quickly scan a few other pages, but this thread is so large now, it's hard to find the right info...

I'm trying to expand my TIVoHD with a 2TB drive. Is the 'Broflovski image' still the way to do this, or is there now another way? If so, where can I get the image, and what other tools do I need to apply it? If not, what's the current preferred way to do this? I do have a dual-drive dock, and I could possibly duplicate it, but I know that the Tivo HD can only see 1.26TB unless another 'trick' is used. I could either copy the contents of my current drive, or just use an image...either way works for me...

Any help would be greatly appreciated...

Thanks!


----------



## unitron

Raoul99 said:


> Hey guys...I've been gone quite a while, and haven't kept up on this stuff. I read the FAQ on the first page of this thread, and tried to quickly scan a few other pages, but this thread is so large now, it's hard to find the right info...
> 
> I'm trying to expand my TIVoHD with a 2TB drive. Is the 'Broflovski image' still the way to do this, or is there now another way? If so, where can I get the image, and what other tools do I need to apply it? If not, what's the current preferred way to do this? I do have a dual-drive dock, and I could possibly duplicate it, but I know that the Tivo HD can only see 1.26TB unless another 'trick' is used. I could either copy the contents of my current drive, or just use an image...either way works for me...
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated...
> 
> Thanks!


Assuming the drive in there currently is smaller than 2TB, check sys info and make sure it's running 11.0k or 11.0m of the TiVo software, then install WinMFS on a PC running XP SP3 or newer.

11.0g or k made it possible for any of the 3 S3 models to successfully boot from and use all of a 2TB drive.

For the 2TB drive, lots of people, including me, have had success with the WD20EURS, which happens to be on sale at the moment.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=511576

After you get whatever 2TB drive you plan to use, you need to have a way to run the manufacturer's own diagnostic software long test on it before you put it into service.

I recommend that you download the free .iso image for the Ultimate Boot cd

http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/download.html

go to the bottom of the page where it says mirror sites and click on one of the icons (arrow pointing down at old Windows drive icon) on the left.

When you've downloaded it, burn it "as an image" (to make it bootable) to a cd-r.

Almost everybody's diagnostic software is on there (along with all sorts of other stuff that might come in handy some day).

Once you have a tested 2TB drive, hook it and the current TiVo drive up to the PC, boot into Windows, use WinMFS to make a backup image of the current drive if you haven't already.

Click File, then Select Drive, and make sure you pick the current TiVo drive.

Then click View and mfsinfo, just to make sure it doesn't complain about anything being wrong with the drive (I'm assuming, and hoping, you do not have an external drive attached to that TiVo, because that would be a tremendous complication).

Then click Save, and think up a file name and tell it where on your Windows drive to save the info as a text file. It'll save the contenst of all 3 tabs, Zone Map, Partion Map, and Misc. in that one file.

Then close that and click File, Backup, TiVo Drive (truncated), and tell it where on your PC's own hard drive you want to save the image--it'll be in the 200 to 600MB range.

Then use WinMFS to do an mfscopy.

The source drive, the current TiVo drive should still be selected.

Click Tools, mfscopy, then make sure it shows the right drive as the source drive and select the 2TB drive as the Destination Drive.

There will be 2 Options available for you to check or not.

The second one, No Optimized Partition Layout, you want to leave not, repeat NOT, checked, because you DO want to have the optimized layout on any TiVo newer than a Series 1.

The first option lets you specify a different swap partition size from the default, which is the 128MB of the one on the source drive.

You don't want to make it any smaller.

A lot of people leave this unchanged and seem to get along okay.

Others of us make it bigger "just in case".

The old rule of thumb, from when exceeding 127GB on an expanded Series 1 drive was bleeding edge, was 1MB of swap for every 2GB of total drive size.

That would work out to a swap size for a 2TB of 1000MB, which is about 15 minutes of analog standard definition video recorded at Best Quality.

I figure it's cheap insurance, but that's just me.

So decide for yourself, then click start and wait.

It'll copy over the TiVo software and all of your settings and recorded shows.

It may appear to have frozen.

Just let it keep going.

When it finishes, it'll tell you that you have extra space on the new drive and ask if you want to expand.

Tell it no.

Go to File, Select Drive, and this time select the 2TB drive, then click on mfsinfo and see if everything looks okay.

The Partition Map tab should show the same partitions as before, possibly with a larger swap partition if you went that route, and at the end a big ol' Apple Free partition.

If everything looks cool, click on Tools and then on mfsadd. That'll turn that Apple Free partition (which is what the Apple Partition Map turns unpartitioned space into--that's Apple thinking for you, unpartitioned space is a partition, just like the map itself is a partition) into a 3rd MFS pair, filling the rest of the drive.

That's it. Back out of WinMFS, shut down Windows, put the drive in the TiVo, and plug it in.

Actually you should have left the original drive on the drive bracket this entire time, and plug the combo data/power cable into the 2TB now that it's ready to test in the TiVo and hang it upside down over the back of the chassis (it'll make sense when you do it) and plug in the TiVo and make sure the new drive works okay.

If everything's cool, shut down the TiVo, take the old drive off the bracket and put it somewhere safe for possible future reference as a troubleshooting aid, put the new drive on the bracket, put the bracket back in the TiVo, make sure there aren't any unconnected cables, put the cover back on the TiVo, and enjoy.


----------



## headless chicken

How do you run wdidle if you don't own a PC? I have an iMac and a Macbook Pro.


----------



## unitron

headless chicken said:


> How do you run wdidle if you don't own a PC? I have an iMac and a Macbook Pro.


wdidle3.exe

is on the Ultimate Boot cd, from which you would boot.

You just have to have the WD drive connected to a SATA port on the motherboard and not through a second layer like a USB adapater.

And if there are any other WD drives connected to that computer, disconnect them before booting, as wdidle3 doesn't offer an opportunity to tell it which WD drive you want to change, and will probably try to do all of them or maybe not to the one you want done.


----------



## headless chicken

unitron said:


> wdidle3.exe
> 
> is on the Ultimate Boot cd, from which you would boot.
> 
> You just have to have the WD drive connected to a SATA port on the motherboard and not through a second layer like a USB adapater.
> 
> And if there are any other WD drives connected to that computer, disconnect them before booting, as wdidle3 doesn't offer an opportunity to tell it which WD drive you want to change, and will probably try to do all of them or maybe not to the one you want done.


I have a WD drive inside the computer. The iMac has the harddrive installed inside the monitor, and its very tricky/difficult to open.

Moroeover, I don't have any Windows simulation software or Bootcamp installed so I can't run any .exe files.

The drive I ordered is the WD30EFRX, which has Intellipower (not Intellipark) from what I can gather through a Google search. That means I shouldn't have to worry about running wdidle, right? I'm not about to purchase a PC just to do run some program.


----------



## Raoul99

"If everything's cool, shut down the TiVo, take the old drive off the bracket and put it somewhere safe for possible future reference as a troubleshooting aid, put the new drive on the bracket, put the bracket back in the TiVo, make sure there aren't any unconnected cables, put the cover back on the TiVo, and enjoy."

Unitron...Thanks so much for taking the time to give such a detailed response...much appreciated!

I'll be attempting to do this this weekend (I THINK!), and I'll let you know how it goes...

I did pick up a couple of the WD20EURS drives from the Newegg sale...I've wanted to do this for a while, and the sale was what gave me the 'kick' I needed...

One last question...is the procedure the same for putting a 2TB drive in the TIVoHD XL, or does something change?

Thanks again!
_________
Oh, BTW...I do NOT (never have and never will) have an external drive hooked up ...


----------



## ThAbtO

Raoul99 said:


> Oh, BTW...I do NOT (never have and never will) have an external drive hooked up ...


Oh, your divorce got finalized!


----------



## unitron

Raoul99 said:


> "If everything's cool, shut down the TiVo, take the old drive off the bracket and put it somewhere safe for possible future reference as a troubleshooting aid, put the new drive on the bracket, put the bracket back in the TiVo, make sure there aren't any unconnected cables, put the cover back on the TiVo, and enjoy."
> 
> Unitron...Thanks so much for taking the time to give such a detailed response...much appreciated!
> 
> I'll be attempting to do this this weekend (I THINK!), and I'll let you know how it goes...
> 
> I did pick up a couple of the WD20EURS drives from the Newegg sale...I've wanted to do this for a while, and the sale was what gave me the 'kick' I needed...
> 
> One last question...is the procedure the same for putting a 2TB drive in the TIVoHD XL, or does something change?
> 
> Thanks again!
> _________
> Oh, BTW...I do NOT (never have and never will) have an external drive hooked up ...


It's exactly the same steps for an original S3 (TCD648250), an HD (TCD652160), and an HD XL (TCD658000).

Make sure you've already been updated to at least 11.0k, which it should have been a year or 2 ago.

(and should have updated to 11.0m in the last 2 or 3 months)

and you can go up to a 2TB drive on any of those 3 models.


----------



## Marconi

headless chicken said:


> How do you run wdidle if you don't own a PC? I have an iMac and a Macbook Pro.


I'm pretty sure you don't. I've asked that question before and been told it's Windows only.

I wonder, is the wdidle source available?


----------



## lpwcomp

Marconi said:


> I'm pretty sure you don't. I've asked that question before and been told it's Windows only.
> 
> I wonder, is the wdidle source available?


wdidle3 is a DOS program. You create and use bootable disk(floppy or CD) .

The problem is the drive you are trying to modify generally has to be directly connected. It will definitely not work over a USB connection. This is usually difficult to impossible to to on a Mac.


----------



## Marconi

lpwcomp said:


> wdidle3 is a DOS program. You create and use bootable disk(floppy or CD) .
> 
> The problem is the drive you are trying to modify generally has to be directly connected.


I'm aware of that.


lpwcomp said:


> It will definitely not work over a USB connection. This is usually difficult to impossible to to on a Mac.


There are Macs other than laptops and iMacs.

I have six SATA drives connected to my Mac Pro. If I had the source code to wdidle, I might be able to run it on my Mac. Or on my Linux box.


----------



## jmbach

You might be able to use the UBCD to run wdidle3 on your Mac. I have used this on my Macbook for different reasons. Haven't use wdidle3 on it though.


----------



## lpwcomp

Marconi said:


> I'm aware of that. There are Macs other than laptops and iMacs.
> 
> I have six SATA drives connected to my Mac Pro. If I had the source code to wdidle, I might be able to run it on my Mac. Or on my Linux box.


If you "knew" that, why did you say it is "Windows only". It has nothing to do with Windows. It's your *hardware* that is the relevant factor, not the OS. If you can boot and run the CD, you're good. You may have meant that it is limited to "PC" but even that is not true.

See this article for an example.


----------



## Marconi

lpwcomp said:


> If you "knew" that, why did you say it is "Windows only". It has nothing to do with Windows.


Yeah, I should have said "MS-DOS". Not many people run MS-DOS on Macs.


lpwcomp said:


> It's your *hardware* that is the relevant factor, not the OS. If you can boot and run the CD, you're good. You may have meant that it is limited to "PC" but even that is not true.
> 
> See this article for an example.





lpwcomp said:


> What is this Ultimate Boot CD? Where can it be had?


----------



## ThAbtO

Marconi said:


> What is this Ultimate Boot CD? Where can it be had?


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9879737#post9879737

You would need to download it and burn the CD yourself.


----------



## unitron

Marconi said:


> Yeah, I should have said "MS-DOS". Not many people run MS-DOS on Macs. ...


Actually it's more likely a DR-DOS variant.


----------



## Raoul99

unitron said:


> It's exactly the same steps for an original S3 (TCD648250), an HD (TCD652160), and an HD XL (TCD658000).
> 
> Make sure you've already been updated to at least 11.0k, which it should have been a year or 2 ago.
> 
> (and should have updated to 11.0m in the last 2 or 3 months)
> 
> and you can go up to a 2TB drive on any of those 3 models.


 I had a change of plans, so I attempted to upgrade the Tivo HD today. I put both the TIVO drive and the new 2TB drive in a USB 3.0 dual-bay drive dock. I got through and started running Mfscopy. All appeared fine until I got about halfway through and it froze. I know that the instructions say that: "it may appear to have frozen. Just let it keep going."

It's been 'frozen' now for about 2 hours, with absolutely NO activity on either drive. Is this 'normal'? Is so, can someone give me an idea approx. how long it will take before it starts 'going' again?

Rick


----------



## jmbach

Are you using the MFSLive, JMFS, or WinMFS


----------



## Raoul99

Hi jmbach:

I'm using WinMFS...


----------



## unitron

Raoul99 said:


> I had a change of plans, so I attempted to upgrade the Tivo HD today. I put both the TIVO drive and the new 2TB drive in a USB 3.0 dual-bay drive dock. I got through and started running Mfscopy. All appeared fine until I got about halfway through and it froze. I know that the instructions say that: "it may appear to have frozen. Just let it keep going."
> 
> It's been 'frozen' now for about 2 hours, with absolutely NO activity on either drive. Is this 'normal'? Is so, can someone give me an idea approx. how long it will take before it starts 'going' again?
> 
> Rick


Do CTRL+ALT+DLT to bring up task manager and see if it says it's running or something else.

If it says it's running, give it a couple more hours.

Generally WinMFS either runs or out and out crashes and says so, or Windows pops up something to say it crashed.


----------



## jmbach

Is it done yet


----------



## ThAbtO

jmbach said:


> Is it done yet


Its still in the oven.


----------



## Raoul99

unitron said:


> Do CTRL+ALT+DLT to bring up task manager and see if it says it's running or something else.
> 
> If it says it's running, give it a couple more hours.
> 
> Generally WinMFS either runs or out and out crashes and says so, or Windows pops up something to say it crashed.


 I waited another hour or so but there was still no hard drive or CPU activity, so I ended it. I removed the drives and tried the drive from the HD XL with another 2TB new drive. It worked for a while and also 'froze up', so I figured it wasn't a problem with the drives. I then put the HD XL drives into a pair of hard drive docks that I had available to me, and tried again. This time, it ran smoothly until completion, and never froze! It took 2.5/3 hours. I'm now running the HD drives and it seems to be working well so far...fingers crossed!

I do have a question that I forgot to put in the initial post: I had upgraded the HD's drive to a 750GB (I believe in 2007). Will the procedure be any different when copying the upgraded drive, or will it be the same as copying the stock Tivo drive?

Thanks a lot for the help, guys!


----------



## jmbach

It's the same. I upgraded my original S3 to 1TB then recently upgraded from the 1TB to 2TB.


----------



## Raoul99

jmbach said:


> It's the same. I upgraded my original S3 to 1TB then recently upgraded from the 1TB to 2TB.


 That's what I was hopin'....

Thanks!


----------



## Raoul99

Raoul99 said:


> I waited another hour or so but there was still no hard drive or CPU activity, so I ended it. I removed the drives and tried the drive from the HD XL with another 2TB new drive. It worked for a while and also 'froze up', so I figured it wasn't a problem with the drives. I then put the HD XL drives into a pair of hard drive docks that I had available to me, and tried again. This time, it ran smoothly until completion, and never froze! It took 2.5/3 hours. I'm now running the HD drives and it seems to be working well so far...fingers crossed!
> 
> I do have a question that I forgot to put in the initial post: I had upgraded the HD's drive to a 750GB (I believe in 2007). Will the procedure be any different when copying the upgraded drive, or will it be the same as copying the stock Tivo drive?
> 
> Thanks a lot for the help, guys!


 The HD drive just finished copying, and everything seemed to go well. I'll put them together and get them up & running tomorrow...hopefully!


----------



## Raoul99

Raoul99 said:


> The HD drive just finished copying, and everything seemed to go well. I'll put them together and get them up & running tomorrow...hopefully!


 Well...I have good news and bad news...

The good news: I got both Tivos up-and-running with the new drives...

The bad news: On the HD, I 'only' got 287 hours, and on the HD XL, I 'only' got 300 hours. I was expecting about 318 hours on each...

Is this pretty typical for an upgrade, or did I do something wrong?


----------



## lpwcomp

Raoul99 said:


> Well...I have good news and bad news...
> 
> The good news: I got both Tivos up-and-running with the new drives...
> 
> The bad news: On the HD, I 'only' got 287 hours, and on the HD XL, I 'only' got 300 hours. I was expecting about 318 hours on each...
> 
> Is this pretty typical for an upgrade, or did I do something wrong?


Did you forget to "Supersize"?


----------



## Raoul99

lpwcomp said:


> Did you forget to "Supersize"?


 I didn't use 'Supersize'. After the copy was done, I just used the MFSadd. Do I need to supersize, too? Is that in the WinMFS tools also?


----------



## lpwcomp

Raoul99 said:


> I didn't use 'Supersize'. After the copy was done, I just used the MFSadd. Do I need to supersize, too? Is that in the WinMFS tools also?


Yes to both questions.


----------



## Raoul99

lpwcomp said:


> Yes to both questions.


 Thanks for the help. Can I just do the supersize now (I hope!), or do I have to do the whole copy procedure over again?


----------



## lpwcomp

Raoul99 said:


> Thanks for the help. Can I just do the supersize now (I hope!), or do I have to do the whole copy procedure over again?


You *should* be able to just do the supersize. The current difference between the HD and the HDXL (287 vs. 300) may be due to the previous upgrade. You should get an MSFinfo from the HD drive after the supersize and post it here.


----------



## Raoul99

lpwcomp said:


> You *should* be able to just do the supersize. The current difference between the HD and the HDXL (287 vs. 300) may be due to the previous upgrade. You should get an MSFinfo from the HD drive after the supersize and post it here.


 Not sure which info is needed:

Mfsinfo (Drive 2)

Boot Page
Boot Page: root=/dev/hda7
Active Boot Partition: 6 Active Root Partition: 7
Backup Boot Partition: 3 Backup Root Partition: 4

MFS Super Header
state=0 magic=ebbafeed
devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13 /dev/hda14 /dev/hda15
zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=3905175552

Zone Maps
Z0:	type=0
map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=589822
next_map_start=263266 next_map_size=6 next_backup_map_start=589816
zone_first=1122 zone_last=263265 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=d6ea8fe3 logstamp=20644637 num_bitmap=1
Z1:	type=2
map_start=263266 map_size=6 backup_map_start=589816
next_map_start=263272 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589782
zone_first=589824 zone_last=138215423 zone_size=137625600 min(chunk)=20480
free=7311360 checksum=bfbe1f6c logstamp=20657828 num_bitmap=14
Z2:	type=1
map_start=263272 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589782
next_map_start=138219520 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=138809343
zone_first=263306 zone_last=589777 zone_size=326472 min(chunk)=8
free=54080 checksum=f77728fe logstamp=20658273 num_bitmap=17
Z3:	type=0
map_start=138219520 map_size=1 backup_map_start=138809343
next_map_start=138481665 next_map_size=10 next_backup_map_start=138809333
zone_first=138219521 zone_last=138481664 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=f2af6123 logstamp=20644637 num_bitmap=1
Z4:	type=2
map_start=138481665 map_size=10 backup_map_start=138809333
next_map_start=138481675 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=138809299
zone_first=138809344 zone_last=310718463 zone_size=171909120 min(chunk)=20480
free=8478720 checksum=810bce02 logstamp=20657824 num_bitmap=15
Z5:	type=1
map_start=138481675 map_size=34 backup_map_start=138809299
next_map_start=310728704 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=310730718
zone_first=138481709 zone_last=138809292 zone_size=327584 min(chunk)=8
free=289848 checksum=68b061c9 logstamp=20658273 num_bitmap=17
Z6:	type=2
map_start=310728704 map_size=34 backup_map_start=310730718
next_map_start=310728738 next_map_size=67 next_backup_map_start=310730651
zone_first=310730752 zone_last=1463283711 zone_size=1152552960 min(chunk)=20480
free=55992320 checksum=dabee648 logstamp=20657828 num_bitmap=17
Z7:	type=2
map_start=310728738 map_size=67 backup_map_start=310730651
next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=0
zone_first=1463283712 zone_last=3905175551 zone_size=2441891840 min(chunk)=20480
free=2440560640 checksum=a64ac75d logstamp=20657759 num_bitmap=18

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2  Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Expanded by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.7T)

Total SA SD Hours: 2083	Total DTV SD Hours: 1818 64 % Free
Software: 11.0m-01-2-652	Tivo Model: TCD652160

I'm guessing by the number of SD hours shown (2083), that it didn't work...


----------



## lpwcomp

Raoul99 said:


> I'm guessing by the number of SD hours shown (2083), that it didn't work...


The partition map looks OK as far as I can tell. Hopefully, it is just using a different formula for calculating the hours. I suggest putting it in the TiVo and see what it says.


----------



## Raoul99

lpwcomp said:


> The partition map looks OK as far as I can tell. Hopefully, it is just using a different formula for calculating the hours. I suggest putting it in the TiVo and see what it says.


 I ran supersize on both the HD and the HD XL, and they're both up to 318HRS.!

Thanks for all of the help guys...very much appreciated!


----------



## lpwcomp

Raoul99 said:


> I ran supersize on both the HD and the HD XL, and they're both up to 318HRS.!


(In my best Mr. Burns voice): Excellent.


----------



## PeteTV

I'm considering upgrading my S3 OLED (TCD648250B) to a 2TB drive and was looking at the WD20EURS on newegg. At the top of the page it says there's "a newer version of this item" with a link to the WD20EURX.

Is there any advantage using the EURX over the EURS in an S3? I don't know what SATA controller is in the S3, but I'm assuming it's not SATA III, so it seems like the 6.0Gb/s in the EURX wouldn't really help. yes? no?

Any other advantages/disadvantages of the EURX over the EURS? Specifically for my model TiVo that is... S3 OLED TCD648250B.


----------



## nooneuknow

PeteTV said:


> I'm considering upgrading my S3 OLED (TCD648250B) to a 2TB drive and was looking at the WD20EURS on newegg. At the top of the page it says there's "a newer version of this item" with a link to the WD20EURX.
> 
> Is there any advantage using the EURX over the EURS in an S3? I don't know what SATA controller is in the S3, but I'm assuming it's not SATA III, so it seems like the 6.0Gb/s in the EURX wouldn't really help. yes? no?
> 
> Any other advantages/disadvantages of the EURX over the EURS? Specifically for my model TiVo that is... S3 OLED TCD648250B.


For that application, or any TiVo application, there is nothing to be gained by the EURX drives, but they should still work due to backwards-compatibility.

It's actually kind of ridiculous that they even make SATA-III X-model drives in the first place for a "Green" and low-performance drive.

I've used EZRX drives in TiVo HDs, built on the S3 platform, so it's highly unlikely that you'd have any issues. I only got SATA-III drives, because they were cheaper than SATA-II, due to a holiday sale.


----------



## unitron

PeteTV said:


> I'm considering upgrading my S3 OLED (TCD648250B) to a 2TB drive and was looking at the WD20EURS on newegg. At the top of the page it says there's "a newer version of this item" with a link to the WD20EURX.
> 
> Is there any advantage using the EURX over the EURS in an S3? I don't know what SATA controller is in the S3, but I'm assuming it's not SATA III, so it seems like the 6.0Gb/s in the EURX wouldn't really help. yes? no?
> 
> Any other advantages/disadvantages of the EURX over the EURS? Specifically for my model TiVo that is... S3 OLED TCD648250B.


I'm using EURSs in several S3s, both 648s and 652s, quite successfully.

I have no experience with the Xs, but as long as I can get the older ones, I'm going to keep on doing so, funds permitting.


----------



## ggieseke

And they're still shipping EURS drives in brand new Roamios. It's their go-to drive and has been for several years.

Pick the best daily sale you can find, don't forget to factor in tax & shipping, and forget the rest. They only use 1.5Gb/s even if you could figure out how to shove a 15000RPM SAS enterprise drive into it.


----------



## 1283

ggieseke said:


> And they're still shipping EURS drives in brand new Roamios.


I got 1TB EURX in my Roamio Plus.


----------



## ggieseke

Guess it varies. My Pro had the "S" version, as did my Premiere XL.


----------



## Alan Gordon

I replaced a bad hard drive in my TiVo Series 3 unit last night from a TiVo file I found on the internet, and it's working great other than the fact that whenever I enter the Media Access Key into the iOS apps, it tells me that it's an invalid MAK.

Suggestions?


----------



## ThAbtO

Alan Gordon said:


> I replaced a bad hard drive in my TiVo Series 3 unit last night from a TiVo file I found on the internet, and it's working great other than the fact that whenever I enter the Media Access Key into the iOS apps, it tells me that it's an invalid MAK.
> 
> Suggestions?


We need more info, what you did, what you are trying to do, what happened?

You said you replaced the drive, did you use an image from another Tivo? If you did, you need to have run Clear & Delete Everything, or it will not record or get service.


----------



## unitron

Alan Gordon said:


> I replaced a bad hard drive in my TiVo Series 3 unit last night from a TiVo file I found on the internet, and it's working great other than the fact that whenever I enter the Media Access Key into the iOS apps, it tells me that it's an invalid MAK.
> 
> Suggestions?


Since that file was not made from your S3, it probably still thinks it's supposed to be in a TiVo with a different TiVo Service Number.

Did you have to run Guided Setup?


----------



## Alan Gordon

ThAbtO said:


> We need more info, what you did, what you are trying to do, what happened?
> 
> You said you replaced the drive, did you use an image from another Tivo? If you did, you need to have run Clear & Delete Everything, or it will not record or get service.





unitron said:


> Since that file was not made from your S3, it probably still thinks it's supposed to be in a TiVo with a different TiVo Service Number.
> 
> Did you have to run Guided Setup?


Sorry for not replying right away.

Almost a day after I did a "Clear & Delete Everything", the iOS apps started working. I forced a firmware upgrade between that time, so that was probably the problem.

I don't know the deal with the Media Access Key now. I have OSX Mavericks which doesn't work with TiVo Desktop (at this time). I do have a Windows computer I can install TiVo Desktop on and see if the Key works, but I haven't done so yet.

Thanks!
~Alan


----------



## unitron

Alan Gordon said:


> Sorry for not replying right away.
> 
> Almost a day after I did a "Clear & Delete Everything", the iOS apps started working. I forced a firmware upgrade between that time, so that was probably the problem.
> 
> I don't know the deal with the Media Access Key now. I have OSX Mavericks which doesn't work with TiVo Desktop (at this time). I do have a Windows computer I can install TiVo Desktop on and see if the Key works, but I haven't done so yet.
> 
> Thanks!
> ~Alan


The TiVo gets the MAK from the TiVo, Inc. servers when it connects to get program guide info and set the clock and get updates and account status and all of that, and it has to report it's TiVo Service Number to get account status, and when it does so, the TSN has to show as being on your account for it to get the MAK associated with your account.

F'rinstance, an S3 I recently acquired would still have a different MAK, the one for the previous owner's account, if I hadn't contacted TiVo and had that set moved to my account.


----------



## DocNo

Alan Gordon said:


> I replaced a bad hard drive in my TiVo Series 3 unit last night from a TiVo file I found on the internet, and it's working great other than the fact that whenever I enter the Media Access Key into the iOS apps, it tells me that it's an invalid MAK.


Did you do a clear and delete everything? If not that would be the first thing I try...

EDIT: Nevermind, I see you did that and it seems to have cleared things up - congratulations!


----------



## adischin

Question - I have a S3 HDXL, on it's 4th drive (just got it from WD after RMA on my last of the 2 I got from DVR_dude). How long does the C&DE take after reimaging with WinMFS? 

I used the image posted by Unitron (TCD658000) and all seems to be going along OK so far. Tried this with the last drive I RMA'd and it kept going for days with no end. Anyone have the same experience?


----------



## unitron

adischin said:


> Question - I have a S3 HDXL, on it's 4th drive (just got it from WD after RMA on my last of the 2 I got from DVR_dude). How long does the C&DE take after reimaging with WinMFS?
> 
> I used the image posted by Unitron (TCD658000) and all seems to be going along OK so far. Tried this with the last drive I RMA'd and it kept going for days with no end. Anyone have the same experience?


You need to be making your own backup images after you get everything set the way you want it.

If, after about 4 hours, it's still on the "Clearing and deleting everything" screen, pull the power cord plug, let it sit for 10 minutes, and plug it back in.

You already ran wdidle3.exe to make sure Intellipark is disabled, right?

What size and model were the drives you got from DVR_dude?


----------



## adischin

unitron said:


> You need to be making your own backup images after you get everything set the way you want it.
> 
> If, after about 4 hours, it's still on the "Clearing and deleting everything" screen, pull the power cord plug, let it sit for 10 minutes, and plug it back in.
> 
> You already ran wdidle3.exe to make sure Intellipark is disabled, right?
> 
> What size and model were the drives you got from DVR_dude?


OK, noted on the backup images once I get it everything back to normal. Still going but it's only about 2 hours at this point.

Did not run wdidle3.exe....

The drives I got from DVR_dude are WD 20EURS-73SPKY0, 2.0TB

One more curveball here, I am doing this all on a Macbook Pro with Windows Vista, via VMware Fusion and a USB SATA adapter

UPDATE: It finished with C&DE and I am into the guided setup. So far so good....


----------



## unitron

adischin said:


> OK, noted on the backup images once I get it everything back to normal. Still going but it's only about 2 hours at this point.
> 
> Did not run wdidle3.exe....
> 
> The drives I got from DVR_dude are WD 20EURS-73SPKY0, 2.0TB
> 
> One more curveball here, I am doing this all on a Macbook Pro with Windows Vista, via VMware Fusion and a USB SATA adapter
> 
> UPDATE: It finished with C&DE and I am into the guided setup. So far so good....


Okay, if it's a recently manufactured WD20EURS then Intellipark is probably not enabled, but without connecting it directly to a SATA controller you can't use wdidle3 anyway.


----------



## adischin

UPDATE: I'm through CD&E and guided setup, just need someone at Time Warner to pair my card with the S3. Basic channels work without that.

Read something (can't verify if true or not) that Intellipark comes disabled by default with the WD drives. The manufacture date on the replacement from WD is October 2013.

One last thing is that I replaced all but three of the capacitors on the PS, working fine for now. The PS I have is one of the newer ones, the three caps in question are 16V/2200UF (mounted in a triangle formation under an aluminum L-shaped heatsink?). Anyone have the Mouser part numbers for those? Or can anyone recommend an equivalent replacement from another source? The ones I received were not skinny enough, need to be taller and smaller diameter.

Once I get my card paired, backup image time for the next drive replacement adventure....

Unitron - Thanks for the help!


----------



## unitron

adischin said:


> UPDATE: I'm through CD&E and guided setup, just need someone at Time Warner to pair my card with the S3. Basic channels work without that.
> 
> Read something (can't verify if true or not) that Intellipark comes disabled by default with the WD drives. The manufacture date on the replacement from WD is October 2013.
> 
> One last thing is that I replaced all but three of the capacitors on the PS, working fine for now. The PS I have is one of the newer ones, the three caps in question are 16V/2200UF (mounted in a triangle formation under an aluminum L-shaped heatsink?). Anyone have the Mouser part numbers for those? Or can anyone recommend an equivalent replacement from another source? The ones I received were not skinny enough, need to be taller and smaller diameter.
> 
> Once I get my card paired, backup image time for the next drive replacement adventure....
> 
> Unitron - Thanks for the help!


If those 3 caps don't need replacing now, they probably will eventually.

Where did you get the replacements that are too short and fat?


----------



## adischin

Agreed, it's not if but rather when those 3 will fail. When I first looked at the PS as a possible issue there was only one that was domed. I just need to figure out the right P/N's for the 16V/2200uF caps.

I ordered all of the caps from Mouser, including the ones that are too short/fat. They are the right size capacitance wise but no way they will fit in that space physically. Panasonic low ESR.


----------



## HerronScott

See if you can search for the Panasonic part number in this post assuming this is the HD power supply that you have and verify that the dimensions match what you need.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9518796#post9518796

What Panasonic part number did you order from Mouser?

Scott


----------



## adischin

EEU-FR1C222. 

My PS is a newer version, less stuff on the board than what you'd find in a TCD652160 (bought one for parts to try the PS with my TCD658000). The caps are located under an upside-down L shaped heat sink with what looks to be some FET's screwed to it. They are tall and skinny compared to all others.


----------



## HerronScott

Can you measure the current capacitor in mm as the EEU-FR1C222 is the taller/thinner version of that capacitor (12.5mm x 22mm)? There is another version that's shorter and wider (EEU-FR1C1222S - 16mm x 20mm).

Scott


----------



## adischin

Going to open the box up again and measure those last three caps. 

Just as I thought everything was OK again, I am getting Green Screen of Death, seems to be looping. This drive is brand new, anyone think it's one of the last three caps I didn't change?

Here's what I have done so far:

-New RMA replacement drive from WD (WD20EURS), no wdidle as I'm doing this from a Mac w/USB to SATA using WinMFS (Vista, running WinMFS as Admin).

-Used image provided by Unitron, no issues imaging with WinMFS, answered yes to utilizing extra space.

-Did C&DE, then went through guided setup. Could not get Time Warner on the phone so waited until now to do it. After C&DE guided setup went fine and normal TV channels were working OK. Let it run since that time, now looping Green Screen of Death. Brand new WD drive, manufacture date 10/2013.

What gives? Any ideas?


----------



## unitron

adischin said:


> Going to open the box up again and measure those last three caps.
> 
> Just as I thought everything was OK again, I am getting Green Screen of Death, seems to be looping. This drive is brand new, anyone think it's one of the last three caps I didn't change?
> 
> Here's what I have done so far:
> 
> -New RMA replacement drive from WD (WD20EURS), no wdidle as I'm doing this from a Mac w/USB to SATA using WinMFS (Vista, running WinMFS as Admin).
> 
> -Used image provided by Unitron, no issues imaging with WinMFS, answered yes to utilizing extra space.
> 
> -Did C&DE, then went through guided setup. Could not get Time Warner on the phone so waited until now to do it. After C&DE guided setup went fine and normal TV channels were working OK. Let it run since that time, now looping Green Screen of Death. Brand new WD drive, manufacture date 10/2013.
> 
> What gives? Any ideas?


When you do a copy or restore, do not accept the offer to expand.

Check the drive with

mfsinfo

Then expand the drive with

mfsadd

If you copy from another drive with WinMFS, the source drive is the one "selected", and after the copy is finished, you'll have to select the target drive before clicking on

mfsinfo

Then, when you run

mfsadd

it'll already be the drive selected.

When you restore from a file, you tell it to which drive to write the image, but I don't know if that counts as having "selected" it according to WinMFS's internal logic, so perhaps that has something to do with the need to do the expansion separately.

The green screen may be the TiVo straightening out the disparity between the TiVo Service Number that's burned into a chip on the motherboard and the different TSN that got copied from the hard drive from which the image was made, which will be the TSN of the TiVo out of which the drive from which the image was made was taken.

Did you see anything about Error 51? (Which is what they call that TSN mismatch)

Eventually it should get itself straightened out.

Unlikely power supply problems have anything to do with GSOD, and unlikely Intellipark is a problem, as if it's rebooting and going back into the GSOD, that means the motherboard is communicating with the drive enough to detect the problem that triggers the GSOD.

I don't know which version of the 658 software was on the TiVo from which that image was made, because I got it from someone else and just renamed it to put the 658 in the file name.

I didn't actually have a 658 to try it on.

I tried it in a 652 and it booted it and displayed the THX logo splash screen and I figured that was a pretty good indication that it would work in an actual 658.

If it's not a new enough version of the TiVo software (I think it needs to be at least 11.0h), then it might not be able to handle all 2TB, so maybe you should restore again without expanding, see if you can get it to boot and straighten out the TSN mismatch, and all that good stuff, and then let it update to 11.0m when it calls in, and only then pull it back out and run

mfsadd

on it.


----------



## adischin

Going to do that tomorrow night after work. Fingers crossed....

In the meantime I went back through old posts and saw Scott's cap list for the AcBel PS which is what I have, here are the ones that Scott posted that I need:

C14 2200uF 16V Panasonic EEU-FR1C222 P14402-ND $1.01
C27 2200uF 16V Panasonic EEU-FR1C222 P14402-ND $1.01
C17 2200uF 16V Panasonic EEU-FR1C222 P14402-ND $1.01

It sounds like there might be a different version of this with different dimensions (which is what I received from Mouser), anyone ordered these caps recently with success? If so, where from? Mouser was where I got the last round and they are fine, but OK to order from anywhere at this point.

As always, thank you all for your help!


----------



## adischin

HerronScott said:


> Can you measure the current capacitor in mm as the EEU-FR1C222 is the taller/thinner version of that capacitor (12.5mm x 22mm)? There is another version that's shorter and wider (EEU-FR1C1222S - 16mm x 20mm).
> 
> Scott


Just posted a reply to Unitron's last post, but I can tell you I have the AcBel PS in my 658, also have the 3Y in the parts 652 I bought (which works fine, just no subscripton - couple of bulging caps though). I need these locations:

C14 2200uF 16V Panasonic EEU-FR1C222 P14402-ND $1.01
C27 2200uF 16V Panasonic EEU-FR1C222 P14402-ND $1.01
C17 2200uF 16V Panasonic EEU-FR1C222 P14402-ND $1.01

Where did you get yours?


----------



## HerronScott

I had not actually replaced the capacitors in my HD (no need yet) but those part numbers are from DigiKey where I did buy the capacitors to fix the power supplies in my S3 OLED TiVo's. Did you measure the size of the current capacitors yet?

Scott


----------



## mike212

I've gone through the instructions to swap out a new 1TB drive for a previously upgraded 1TB drive in an Tivo HD.

Following the 22. B. instructions, line item #15, Select Tools-> Mfsadd

I get a message box saying Mfsadd failed! Followed by another box saying Error Number: 2 Error Message: Not enough room to force expand!

The thing to note is that the drive I copied from was nearly full of shows (I forgot to clear out recently deleted and it was almost full of non-deleted shows). Do I need to put the original back in the tivo, delete some things and then re-run? I'd prefer to avoid that if possible.

Thanks.


----------



## lpwcomp

Is there a typo in your post? It indicates that you are just going to a new drive of the same size so there would be nothing to add.


----------



## losaltos

How did you make the duplicate drive? There are many sets of instructions out there.


----------



## mike212

lpwcomp said:


> Is there a typo in your post? It indicates that you are just going to a new drive of the same size so there would be nothing to add.


It's correct, I'm going from 1TB to 1TB drive (the old one is 5 yrs + old and making unhealthy sounding noises).

So I guess that means its fine as is. I was just going through the directions step by step without really thinking about what each portion was trying to accomplish, but what you are saying makes sense - there is nothing to add so its fine. Thanks.


----------



## mike212

losaltos said:


> How did you make the duplicate drive? There are many sets of instructions out there.


Followed the B instructions after this link:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784#instructions

Need to scroll down to the version that preserves current recordings.


----------



## Red NSX

New here, like many other forums there is an enormous amount of info here. I would like to thank those that put all of their energy to helping others with a common interest. Bravo.

Is upgrading a hard drive as easy as it seams here? I have medium computer skills. Between my friends and myself we have about 8, S3 HDs and S3 HD XLs. It would be nice to find a way to replace a hard drive for under $100. Having roughly all the same units should simplify the process. 

I have a Dell Win7 desktop and am looking at a WD hard drive, WD20EURS for $80.

What do you think? Should I give it a try?

Thanks


----------



## mattack

Wait, "S3 HD XLs" really means Tivo HD, right? If so, you can use the jmfs CD, which makes it VERY easy.

You have to do command line tools manually (which still isn't hard, but if you do it wrong, you can hose the wrong drive) with S3 and earlier.


----------



## unitron

mattack said:


> Wait, "S3 HD XLs" really means Tivo HD, right? If so, you can use the jmfs CD, which makes it VERY easy.
> 
> You have to do command line tools manually (which still isn't hard, but if you do it wrong, you can hose the wrong drive) with S3 and earlier.


But if you use WinMFS, which isn't all that difficult, you can make a truncated backup file of the original drive as well, which may come in handy down the road.


----------



## unitron

Red NSX said:


> New here, like many other forums there is an enormous amount of info here. I would like to thank those that put all of their energy to helping others with a common interest. Bravo.
> 
> Is upgrading a hard drive as easy as it seams here? I have medium computer skills. Between my friends and myself we have about 8, S3 HDs and S3 HD XLs. It would be nice to find a way to replace a hard drive for under $100. Having roughly all the same units should simplify the process.
> 
> I have a Dell Win7 desktop and am looking at a WD hard drive, WD20EURS for $80.
> 
> What do you think? Should I give it a try?
> 
> Thanks


Who's got the EURS for $80?


----------



## ThAbtO

unitron said:


> Who's got the EURS for $80?


http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0042AG9V8...UTF8&colid=JIOTVP40A4MC&coliid=I2JOQSS2JD1P6P
76.99 + 5.95 ship


----------



## Red NSX

I guess I should have been clearer, the HD is a TCD652160and the HD XL is a TCD658000. 

ThAbtO is right, a Amazon vendor has the 2TB drives, and cheaper than the 1TB.

I am not so sure about jmfs as I have no knowledge of any command line prompts. I am sure there are posts that explain it well. But if WinMFS can do it without command lines it would simplify my work. Right.

Unitron, what does truncated copy mean, it sounds more complicated than make a copy.


----------



## unitron

Red NSX said:


> ...
> Unitron, what does truncated copy mean, it sounds more complicated than make a copy.


It means that when you back up a 160GB drive, you wind up with a file small enough to fit on a cd-r and not so big that it needs another 160GB drive.

It's what the original MFS Tools, from which spike derived the MFS Live cd, and WinMFS, which he also wrote, turn out as a combination of general file compression techniques and including only the actual TiVo software and the instructions on what size the partitions are supposed to be.

MFS Tools/MFS Live turn out image files with the .bak extension and WinMFS creates them with a .tbk extension.

They aren't interchangeable.

WinMFS can't/won't use the .bak files and the command line software doesn't understand spike's .tbk format.


----------



## Red NSX

Thanks for the explanation. It is amazing how this forum with people like you are continuously helping the less educated. Hopefully I will be able to share as well.

I bought a 2TB hard drive and will put it into the 658000 HD XL. It is dead right now so I will have to find an image to use.

Thnanks


----------



## silentguy

I just upgraded a TIVO HD Series 3 from 160gb to 2TB.

I used WD20EURS 2TB 64MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive Bare Drive - OEM 
$95 from NEWEGG free shipping.


Here are my notes. Information I got mostly from this FAQ and the internet.
It may help others.

I could do everything but the Acoustic Management which I dont think is critical.

My HD recording hours went from 21 to 318 hours.

----------

Instructions to upgrade a Tivo HD Series 3 160gb system to 2TB.

Use number 10 torx bit to remove tivo cover

Remove Tivo original drive and plug into SATA of Windows 7 PC.
Unplug SATA and power of original Windows 7 drive

Plug in to SATA new 2TB Western Digital 2TB WD EURS Green drive to Windows 7 PC

Make sure DVD ROM Drive is plugged into sata of Windows 7 PC.

Configure Windows 7 PC to boot from DVD ROM first.


3 SATA Devices should be connected to the Windows 7 PC

1. Original TIVO 160gb drive
2. New Western Digital 2TB drive (No need to format it)
3. DVD ROM Drive


Put into DVD ROM JFMS 1.04 BOOT CD

Boot and follow instrutions to copy Original TIVO drive to NEW Western Digital 2TB drive

The copy without any preservation of recordings takes about 1 hour

After Copy is complete EXPAND the drive using JFMS as it requests.

Do not SUPERSIZE with JFMS, but use WINFMS.EXE under Windows 7 instead.

----
Disable the idle time drive head park function:

Boot Ultimate Boot CD UBCD with wdidle3

1. Exit to Free Dos.

Use these DOS commands :

T:
cd ubcd\dosapps\wdidle3
wdidle3.exe /d

A successful output looks like this :


idle3 Timer is disabled



-----

Try to adjust acoustic management.
This did not work for the WD EURS drive.
It said AAM not supported.


RUN as ADMINISTRATOR in Windows 7
HDDScan.exe

Select the Tivo Drive from the drop down menu
Click Round Blue New Task button
Select Features -> IDE Features
Drag Slider all the way to left until it reads 128
Click Set

This did not work for the WD EURS drive.

----



Can also try Hitachi Feature Tool Boot CD
Choose AAM
Set AAM value to 128
Click OK

This did not work for the WD EURS drive.

----

Using Windows 7 OS.
Use WINMFS for SUPERSIZE and BACKUPS only
Backup the original TIVO 160gb drive
Backup the new WD 2TB drive


RUN as ADMINISTRATOR in Windows 7

WinMFS.exe

File -> Select TIVO Drive 

File -> Backup 

create Truncated Backup, Boot, Kernel



To Supersize

Select Tools -> MfsSuperSize -> On


Power Down
Disconnect drives
Put New 2TB in Tivo

SIZE of recording space should increased from:
280gb to 318gb HD hours
2,777 SD hours


----------



## unitron

Red NSX said:


> Thanks for the explanation. It is amazing how this forum with people like you are continuously helping the less educated. Hopefully I will be able to share as well.
> 
> I bought a 2TB hard drive and will put it into the 658000 HD XL. It is dead right now so I will have to find an image to use.
> 
> Thnanks


Not the most recent version, but it'll get you started.

You'll have to use WinMFS

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49887720/658000.tbk

After you restore it to the drive, when it offers to expand, say no.

(Cause sometimes it only looks like it worked)

Then test it.

Then go back and expand using the

mfsadd

command in WinMFS.

EDIT TO ADD:

Before putting that new 2TB drive into service, run the manufacturer's diagnostic long test on it.


----------



## unitron

silentguy said:


> I just upgraded a TIVO HD Series 3 from 160gb to 2TB.
> 
> I used WD20EURS 2TB 64MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive Bare Drive - OEM
> $95 from NEWEGG free shipping.
> 
> Here are my notes. Information I got mostly from this FAQ and the internet.
> It may help others.
> 
> I could do everything but the Acoustic Management which I dont think is critical.
> 
> My HD recording hours went from 21 to 318 hours.
> 
> ----------
> 
> Instructions to upgrade a Tivo HD Series 3 160gb system to 2TB.
> 
> Use number 10 torx bit to remove tivo cover
> 
> Remove Tivo original drive and plug into SATA of Windows 7 PC.
> Unplug SATA and power of original Windows 7 drive
> 
> Plug in to SATA new 2TB Western Digital 2TB WD EURS Green drive to Windows 7 PC
> 
> Make sure DVD ROM Drive is plugged into sata of Windows 7 PC.
> 
> Configure Windows 7 PC to boot from DVD ROM first.
> 
> 3 SATA Devices should be connected to the Windows 7 PC
> 
> 1. Original TIVO 160gb drive
> 2. New Western Digital 2TB drive (No need to format it)
> 3. DVD ROM Drive
> 
> Put into DVD ROM JFMS 1.04 BOOT CD
> 
> Boot and follow instrutions to copy Original TIVO drive to NEW Western Digital 2TB drive
> 
> The copy without any preservation of recordings takes about 1 hour
> 
> After Copy is complete EXPAND the drive using JFMS as it requests.
> 
> Do not SUPERSIZE with JFMS, but use WINFMS.EXE under Windows 7 instead.
> 
> ----
> Disable the idle time drive head park function:
> 
> Boot Ultimate Boot CD UBCD with wdidle3
> 
> 1. Exit to Free Dos.
> 
> Use these DOS commands :
> 
> T:
> cd ubcd\dosapps\wdidle3
> wdidle3.exe /d
> 
> A successful output looks like this :
> 
> idle3 Timer is disabled
> 
> -----
> 
> Try to adjust acoustic management.
> This did not work for the WD EURS drive.
> It said AAM not supported.
> 
> RUN as ADMINISTRATOR in Windows 7
> HDDScan.exe
> 
> Select the Tivo Drive from the drop down menu
> Click Round Blue New Task button
> Select Features -> IDE Features
> Drag Slider all the way to left until it reads 128
> Click Set
> 
> This did not work for the WD EURS drive.
> 
> ----
> 
> Can also try Hitachi Feature Tool Boot CD
> Choose AAM
> Set AAM value to 128
> Click OK
> 
> This did not work for the WD EURS drive.
> 
> ----
> 
> Using Windows 7 OS.
> Use WINMFS for SUPERSIZE and BACKUPS only
> Backup the original TIVO 160gb drive
> Backup the new WD 2TB drive
> 
> RUN as ADMINISTRATOR in Windows 7
> 
> WinMFS.exe
> 
> File -> Select TIVO Drive
> 
> File -> Backup
> 
> create Truncated Backup, Boot, Kernel
> 
> To Supersize
> 
> Select Tools -> MfsSuperSize -> On
> 
> Power Down
> Disconnect drives
> Put New 2TB in Tivo
> 
> SIZE of recording space should increased from:
> 280gb to 318gb HD hours
> 2,777 SD hours


Nothing against jmfs, but you could have done it all with WinMFS.


----------



## Red NSX

Thanks Unitron for the 658000 image. Unitron, when I get this all done would you like an updated image for the 658000? After I expand the drive wouldn't I also have to supersize it as well.


----------



## unitron

Red NSX said:


> Thanks Unitron for the 658000 image. Unitron, when I get this all done would you like an updated image for the 658000? After I expand the drive wouldn't I also have to supersize it as well.


You don't have to supersize, but you can if you want to.

WinMFS can do that at any time after you restore that image to the drive.

Thanks for the image offer, but the one I have is new enough for my purposes.


----------



## Red NSX

Well I got my new 2TB WD AV-GP drive for my HDXL/658000. Trying to use WINMFS and it is not finding the drive. Upon opening winmfs I get a clean gui of winmfs with file and help as the only menu options. When clicking on file/select drive I get a window showing A drive on top and B drive on bottom with the drive information totally blank for both drives. By clicking show mounted drives there is no change in the window. I then closed winmfs and right clicked the winmfs program and there is no option for open as admin, just open/cut/copy/paste/properties. clicking on properties only has a general tab.

For what is worth I have Dell/Win7 and the hard drive shows up in explorer as D drive, labeled Elements with a autorun file and folder with WD icon in it. I tried using various mother board ports for the drive data cable with the same results. One note is the data cable I used was the existing data cable for the DVD writer in the same computer, and I don't have another, but can get one of course.

Thanks in advance for you help.


----------



## worachj

Red NSX said:


> Well I got my new 2TB WD AV-GP drive for my HDXL/658000. Trying to use WINMFS and it is not finding the drive. Upon opening winmfs I get a clean gui of winmfs with file and help as the only menu options. When clicking on file/select drive I get a window showing A drive on top and B drive on bottom with the drive information totally blank for both drives. By clicking show mounted drives there is no change in the window. I then closed winmfs and right clicked the winmfs program and there is no option for open as admin, just open/cut/copy/paste/properties. clicking on properties only has a general tab.
> 
> For what is worth I have Dell/Win7 and the hard drive shows up in explorer as D drive, labeled Elements with a autorun file and folder with WD icon in it. I tried using various mother board ports for the drive data cable with the same results. One note is the data cable I used was the existing data cable for the DVD writer in the same computer, and I don't have another, but can get one of course.
> 
> Thanks in advance for you help.


Not seeing the drive is usually because you need to run WINMFS under admin privileges. Unzip the WINMFS.exe from the zip file. After it's unzipped right click on it and select Run as administrator. You should now be able to see the TiVo drive.


----------



## Red NSX

worachj said:


> Not seeing the drive is usually because you need to run WINMFS under admin privileges. Unzip the WINMFS.exe from the zip file. After it's unzipped right click on it and select Run as administrator. You should now be able to see the TiVo drive.


Thanks, allready tried that, right clicking is not giving that option only choices are open/cut/copy/paste/properties. clicking on properties only has a general tab


----------



## worachj

Red NSX said:


> Thanks, allready tried that, right clicking is not giving that option only choices are open/cut/copy/paste/properties. clicking on properties only has a general tab


Has it been unzipped from the zip file? Copy and move it to another location. Or right click on the zip file and extract all...


----------



## ThAbtO

Red NSX said:


> Well I got my new 2TB WD AV-GP drive for my HDXL/658000. Trying to use WINMFS and it is not finding the drive. Upon opening winmfs I get a clean gui of winmfs with file and help as the only menu options. When clicking on file/select drive I get a window showing A drive on top and B drive on bottom with the drive information totally blank for both drives. By clicking show mounted drives there is no change in the window. I then closed winmfs and right clicked the winmfs program and there is no option for open as admin, just open/cut/copy/paste/properties. clicking on properties only has a general tab.
> 
> For what is worth I have Dell/Win7 and the hard drive shows up in explorer as D drive, labeled Elements with a autorun file and folder with WD icon in it. I tried using various mother board ports for the drive data cable with the same results. One note is the data cable I used was the existing data cable for the DVD writer in the same computer, and I don't have another, but can get one of course.
> 
> Thanks in advance for you help.


The drive should not be showing in Explorer for it to be recognized in WinMFS. What drive are you using? It looks like the drive is from some external drive setup.


----------



## Red NSX

worachj said:


> Has it been unzipped from the zip file? Copy and move it to another location. Or right click on the zip file and extract all...


This seems crazy, I did as you described, which still only opened the one file named winmfs, but now when I right click the winmfs file it allowed me to run as administrator. The program started and looked the same, everything still empty. When I clicked show mounted, it then showed my drive. It is now time to get moving again, till the next hangup.

Thanks for all your help


----------



## unitron

Red NSX said:


> Well I got my new 2TB WD AV-GP drive for my HDXL/658000. Trying to use WINMFS and it is not finding the drive. Upon opening winmfs I get a clean gui of winmfs with file and help as the only menu options. When clicking on file/select drive I get a window showing A drive on top and B drive on bottom with the drive information totally blank for both drives. By clicking show mounted drives there is no change in the window. I then closed winmfs and right clicked the winmfs program and there is no option for open as admin, just open/cut/copy/paste/properties. clicking on properties only has a general tab.
> 
> For what is worth I have Dell/Win7 and the hard drive shows up in explorer as D drive, labeled Elements with a autorun file and folder with WD icon in it. I tried using various mother board ports for the drive data cable with the same results. One note is the data cable I used was the existing data cable for the DVD writer in the same computer, and I don't have another, but can get one of course.
> 
> Thanks in advance for you help.


Sounds like that "new" 2TB WD AV-GP was removed from or intended for a Western Digital brand external hard drive, one which previous reports indicate is likely to contain whatever 2TB drive WD had lying around at the time, including, in at least one instance, a Caviar Black model, which if purchased as a boxed internal, would have had a 5 year warranty and a price tag from $20 to $50 higher than the Elements external.

I'm wondering it it's as "new" as you were lead to believe.


----------



## Red NSX

unitron said:


> Sounds like that "new" 2TB WD AV-GP was removed from or intended for a Western Digital brand external hard drive, one which previous reports indicate is likely to contain whatever 2TB drive WD had lying around at the time, including, in at least one instance, a Caviar Black model, which if purchased as a boxed internal, would have had a 5 year warranty and a price tag from $20 to $50 higher than the Elements external.
> 
> I'm wondering it it's as "new" as you were lead to believe.


This "new" drive, which looks new and has a manf. date of 7/13. During the restore process, within 30 sec the status bar climbs half way and then hangs forever. Display shows no ETA and under last error message is states "Error writing media inode1" Also under steps I left the swap size as 128. Under the view tab it states "not a tivo drive".

Should I just go through the hassle of a return or will the Delete Format option under the file tab solve my problem. For a reminder windows explorer does see this drive with a WD image file on it.

Thanks again for your help and sharing your invaluable knowledge.


----------



## Red NSX

Update: the Delete Format worked and now the replace image worked and completed it's job in about a minute. I have put it back in the TiVo and it is working. Then back to computer to expand and back into TiVo for clear and delete everything. I couldn't seem to find the correct WD diagnostic software that was compatible w/Win7 32 bit that would reconize the drive with TiVo software on it, it does see the drive, just won't let me test it. Should I have run the diag test as my first step instead of last step?


----------



## unitron

Red NSX said:


> Update: the Delete Format worked and now the replace image worked and completed it's job in about a minute. I have put it back in the TiVo and it is working. Then back to computer to expand and back into TiVo for clear and delete everything. I couldn't seem to find the correct WD diagnostic software that was compatible w/Win7 32 bit that would reconize the drive with TiVo software on it, it does see the drive, just won't let me test it. Should I have run the diag test as my first step instead of last step?


Better to use a bootable cd that loads its own operating system with which to run the diagnostic software.

Last I checked there was an .iso file available on the WD website which you could burn to cd-r "as an image"*, but allow me to suggest getting their program instead on the free Ultimate Boot cd, as it has not only that program but lots and lots of other stuff that might come in handy as well.

http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/download.html

Ignore the big green download button and go to the bottom of the page where it says mirror sites, choose one near you, and click on the somewhat antiquated drive icon immediately to the left of the mirror site name.

*Find in your cd burning software the "as an image" option, as this puts the bits in the right place on the cd for it to be bootable. Do this for any cd that needs to be bootable, including the UBCD.

One should run the manufacturer's diagnostic software's long test on a drive before putting it into service, even if it's brand new, because "stuff happens".

That test is for the hard drive itself, not the software (TiVo, Windows, Mac, whatever) on it, and shouldn't do any damage to the software written to the drive.

When you use WinMFS to copy a TiVo drive to a new drive, it'll take a while, depending on the size of the source drive.

When restoring a truncated image backup file (one which ends in .tbk), there may come a point where it seems the process has frozen up. Leave it be for up to an hour before deciding anything has gone wrong, although it should finish well before that.

In both cases, when the copying or restoring is down, if the target drive is larger than the source or the drive that originally came in the TiVo from which the .tbk file was made, WinMFS will tell you that there's extra space and offer to expand.

Tell it no.

Go to

Select Drive

and make sure that the target drive is selected.

Check the drive with

mfsinfo

and make sure everything looks okay.

Then you can expand by clicking on the

mfsadd

command, although you can also take the drive out and test it in the TiVo and then hook it back to the PC and expand later.

You will of course have to exit WinMFS and shut down the PC before disconnecting the drive.

Some of what I write here is for you and some is for future readers.


----------



## ThAbtO

Here is a more direct links to the Ultimate Boot CD.

http://pharry.org/data/ubcd528.iso
http://ftp.cc.uoc.gr/mirrors/linux/ubcd/ubcd528.iso
ftp://ftp.cc.uoc.gr/mirrors/linux/ubcd/ubcd528.iso
http://mirror.komsys.org/pub/ubcd/ubcd528.iso


----------



## Red NSX

Thank you Unitron and ThAbtO. Without people like you and the writers of the various TiVo software programs, the task of doing a hard drive replacement would be only for the extreme computer people. It appears that there are many variables to this process and you guys are there to assist in and sort out the best avenues. I as well as many others appreciate all of your help, suggestions and directions.

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you


----------



## adischin

unitron said:


> When you do a copy or restore, do not accept the offer to expand.
> 
> Check the drive with
> 
> mfsinfo
> 
> Then expand the drive with
> 
> mfsadd
> 
> If you copy from another drive with WinMFS, the source drive is the one "selected", and after the copy is finished, you'll have to select the target drive before clicking on
> 
> mfsinfo
> 
> Then, when you run
> 
> mfsadd
> 
> it'll already be the drive selected.
> 
> When you restore from a file, you tell it to which drive to write the image, but I don't know if that counts as having "selected" it according to WinMFS's internal logic, so perhaps that has something to do with the need to do the expansion separately.
> 
> The green screen may be the TiVo straightening out the disparity between the TiVo Service Number that's burned into a chip on the motherboard and the different TSN that got copied from the hard drive from which the image was made, which will be the TSN of the TiVo out of which the drive from which the image was made was taken.
> 
> Did you see anything about Error 51? (Which is what they call that TSN mismatch)
> 
> Eventually it should get itself straightened out.
> 
> Unlikely power supply problems have anything to do with GSOD, and unlikely Intellipark is a problem, as if it's rebooting and going back into the GSOD, that means the motherboard is communicating with the drive enough to detect the problem that triggers the GSOD.
> 
> I don't know which version of the 658 software was on the TiVo from which that image was made, because I got it from someone else and just renamed it to put the 658 in the file name.
> 
> I didn't actually have a 658 to try it on.
> 
> I tried it in a 652 and it booted it and displayed the THX logo splash screen and I figured that was a pretty good indication that it would work in an actual 658.
> 
> If it's not a new enough version of the TiVo software (I think it needs to be at least 11.0h), then it might not be able to handle all 2TB, so maybe you should restore again without expanding, see if you can get it to boot and straighten out the TSN mismatch, and all that good stuff, and then let it update to 11.0m when it calls in, and only then pull it back out and run
> 
> mfsadd
> 
> on it.


OK, giving this a whirl. I deleted the last format of the new drive and restored from the 658000.tbk, said NO to expansion. I plugged everything in and the welcome screen popped up, then to just a few minutes more. After that a Serious Error screen came up, and asked for 3 hours to fix that error. I'm letting it go through the motions and will see what happens, hoping that it updates the software, after which I will go back and expand.


----------



## unitron

adischin said:


> OK, giving this a whirl. I deleted the last format of the new drive and restored from the 658000.tbk, said NO to expansion. I plugged everything in and the welcome screen popped up, then to just a few minutes more. After that a Serious Error screen came up, and asked for 3 hours to fix that error. I'm letting it go through the motions and will see what happens, hoping that it updates the software, after which I will go back and expand.


That serious error 3 hour thing should just be on account of the image came from a different 658 with a different TiVo Service Number (they're unique, so it has to be different) from your 658's TSN, and it has to rewrite some stuff to "marry" that drive to your TiVo.


----------



## Kurt Grzyb

I have a Tivo HD and the hard drive died completely. Does any one have a image to down load so I can fix it my self or I have to buy the software from say DVRupgrade or some place like that. Unfortunaly I'm unable to clone the drive.


----------



## worachj

Kurt Grzyb said:


> I have a Tivo HD and the hard drive died completely. Does any one have a image to down load so I can fix it my self or I have to buy the software from say DVRupgrade or some place like that. Unfortunaly I'm unable to clone the drive.


TCD652160 images.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8831301#post8831301


----------



## unitron

worachj said:


> TCD652160 images.
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8831301#post8831301


Thanks, minion. 

And you reminded me I needed to edit that post to include the new 11.0m versions.


----------



## Teeps

worachj said:


> TCD652160 images.
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8831301#post8831301


Or,
If you plan on keeping this unit. Now it a good time to upgrade the storage.
They can be had for less than $200.


----------



## adischin

unitron said:


> That serious error 3 hour thing should just be on account of the image came from a different 658 with a different TiVo Service Number (they're unique, so it has to be different) from your 658's TSN, and it has to rewrite some stuff to "marry" that drive to your TiVo.


OK, tried the whole thing again and BINGO! Back up, 11.0m update from the TiVO Mothership installed and everything seems to work again. Thank you all for the help, still working on those last 3 caps but on the advice of another poster here I bit the bullet and got a spare drive, also going to back up the current image for the not-so-unthinkable next drive replacement.


----------



## dmartin5454

I have a Tivo HD (652160) that was experiencing random reboots. I examined the capacitors on the power supply board, and sure enough, there were some that were bulging. I went ahead and ordered the complete list as specified on this forum for my board:

QTY PART NUMBER DESCRIPTION LOCATION
1 1189-1197-ND CAP ALUM 470UF 200V 20% RADIAL C120
1 493-1896-ND CAP ALUM 47UF 50V 20% RADIAL C220
1 493-5362-1-ND CAP ALUM 10UF 25V 20% RADIAL C227
1 493-5369-1-ND CAP ALUM 2.2UF 50V 20% RADIAL C306
2 P12354-ND CAP ALUM 1000UF 10V 20% RADIAL C403,C503
1 P12376-ND CAP ALUM 470UF 16V 20% RADIAL C702
5 493-6967-ND CAP ALUM 2200UF 10V 20% RADIAL C402,C407,C501,C502,C504
1 P12366-ND CAP ALUM 1000UF 16V 20% RADIAL C701

After replacement, I measured the voltages, and they came out within tolerances. I had a 1.5TB drive that I originally had configured for 1.2TB, before it was known how to go beyond that. At some point I successfully expanded it to 1.5TB. The drive was starting to get noisy and seemed a little on the hot side. I didn't think to get an actual measurement of the temperature, but it seemed hot to the touch. I went ahead and ordered a WD20EURS to replace it.

I used the Ultimate Bood cd (loaded on a USB flash drive) to run wdidle3 on it. It came direct from the factory with the head parking disabled, which I had heard might be the case. I also performed an complete media scan on the drive overnight to make sure the drive was not DOA. It passed with no errors.

I used unitron's instructions for copying the drive contents (including all recordings), then as a separate step, used mfsadd to expand the capacity from 1.5TB to 2.0TB. I verified that I now have 318 hours of HD storage.

Now for the problem. I'm still getting random reboots -- usually after 1-2 days. I always enable the digital clock display, so when it disappears, I know a reboot occurred.

Thinking that the original drive might have had some corruption on it (which could have been copied to the new drive) I made the mistake of trying kickstart 57 to initiate a Media File System check, which causes as GSOD to appear while it attempts to repair any file system problems. However, the GSOD did appear for just a few seconds, then it went into a reboot cycle repeating that exact sequence over and over. I couldn't recover from that, so I had to re-copy from the original drive again.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what to check (perhaps more attention to the PS board), or anything else? With the new drive, everything works correctly, I just get the random reboots.

--
Dave


----------



## TaterTot24

So some of the data in the original post looks a little dated...

What is the best drive to put into a "TivoHD (TCD652160)"? and does the whole "1.0TiB" limit still exist?


----------



## unitron

TaterTot24 said:


> So some of the data in the original post looks a little dated...
> 
> What is the best drive to put into a "TivoHD (TCD652160)"? and does the whole "1.0TiB" limit still exist?


Probably the WD20EURS or its successor the WD20EURX.

Best GB/$ ratio, specifically designed for 24/7 AV use.

See discussion here about from whom not to buy.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=514951

If your 652 (or any S3 platform TiVo) is running at least ver. 11.0h of the TiVo software (if you've had it online lately it should be up to 11.0m), then it'll be able to deal with partitions larger than 1.2TB.

If you read the past few pages of this thread you'll see where I've gone into detail about the best way to expand into all 2TB and the need to test the new drive before using.

One thing, make sure you weren't one of the people who got the supposedly unintended "upgrade" to version 11.3 something (which is supposedly only for the Australian TiVos).


----------



## mattack

6 TB hard drives are under $300, and a 5 TB external drive is $190.. Wow.. Someone's gotta figure out how to expand current Tivos!

http://9to5toys.com/2014/04/08/6tb-...utm_campaign=Feed:+9to5macToys+(9to5Mac+Toys)


----------



## jmbach

Given what we currently know about the current S4 and S5 series TiVo OSes, it should be doable. The problem is that the current tools available will not let it be done cleanly as demonstrated in the 4TB DIY thread. The only other thing to test out is the limitations of the 64bit APM TiVo introduced in the latest OS releases. Not everything in the TiVo OS can utilize the 64bit APM.


----------



## mattack

Oh, I guess I have to search for the 4 TB DIY thread. I thought the only info about a 4 TB Tivo was from weaknees, really expensive..


----------



## jmbach

As far as the S3 OS is concerned, I strongly suspect we could get a 3 to 4TB version going for the TiVo HD. I would attempt this myself save that I only have an OLED S3 and unless someone can convert a 32bit MFS system to 64bit, it will never see anything beyond 2TB.


----------



## dougdingle

Can one of those eSATA 'WD Expanders' be used with a TiVo HD (TCD652160) that's had its internal drive upgraded to a 1 Gig, or do I need to remove the internal drive and use WINMFS to pair with an external drive?


----------



## ThAbtO

dougdingle said:


> Can one of those eSATA 'WD Expanders' be used with a TiVo HD (TCD652160) that's had its internal drive upgraded to a 1 Gig, or do I need to remove the internal drive and use WINMFS to pair with an external drive?


You need to use WinMFS, but be aware that adding a second drive will only add problems to the Tivo. Should a drive fail, you lose recordings since its been attached.


----------



## unitron

dougdingle said:


> Can one of those eSATA 'WD Expanders' be used with a TiVo HD (TCD652160) that's had its internal drive upgraded to a 1 Gig, or do I need to remove the internal drive and use WINMFS to pair with an external drive?


I'm pretty sure the software in the TiVo that recognizes that an external has been connected and checks the model number of the drive itself against the very short list of approved models is not set up to handle the situation of adding it if the internal had already been upgraded. I think it expects to put the third MFS pair on the external, but an upgraded internal already has the 3rd pair added to it.

Better to use WinMFS to copy that 1TB to a WD20EURS or WD20EURX (for about what you'd pay for a 1TB WD TiVo approved external anyway), and then after the copying is finished, select the 2TB drive, check it with

mfsinfo

and only then, as a separate step from the copying, expand into the second TB with

mfsadd

telling it to go ahead and use a partition bigger than 1.2TB when it asks.

But not until after running WD's own diagnostic long test on the 2TB before putting it into service. (stuff can happen during shipping even if it didn't slip past QC at the factory).

Having 2 drives doubles the chance of having a drive go bad (and costing you all the shows on both drives).


----------



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----------



## dlfl

dantruong said:


> Follow me, I currently got the series 3 and running Ver. 8.3. with a DB 35 Seagate hard drive & the MX1 enclosure. Everything works fine right now. When TiVo upgrades my receiver to 9 .2 will it still worked properly or will it reinstall the external hard drive?
> I don't want to lose my recordings? I've got quite a few shows that are recorded and would hate to start over again. If anybody went from 8.3 to 9.2 & use the old kickstart method, did you encounter any problems when TiVo upgraded your receiver?
> Thank You.
> A better day.


8.2, 9.2 ???
Series 3's have been using 11.0 for years. 11.0m is the latest. As soon as you connect to TiVo you should be getting that update.


----------



## lpwcomp

dlfl said:


> 8.2, 9.2 ???
> Series 3's have been using 11.0 for years. 11.0m is the latest. As soon as you connect to TiVo you should be getting that update.


I'm assuming he actually has some model of DirecTiVo.


----------



## stevel

lpwcomp said:


> I'm assuming he actually has some model of DirecTiVo.


No such versions in DTiVo. His other off-topic posts seem to include snippets of other posts, suggesting an incipient spammer.


----------



## Albinus

Hi guys,

Got a question that I can't seem to find the answer to anywhere. I have the Australian Series 3 model (TCD663160) with the 160GB WD drive, plus a 1GB E-SATA Expander that was purchased as part of the pack in 2009. Well, I've had the external drive die with the click of death, internal is still testing fine with WD diagnostics. As a result, TiVo works fine on the internal 160GB drive but quite limited for storage.

I'm seeing conflicting messages about replacing the external drive. Some say I must only use a WD Expander. Some say any old E-SATA drive will work. Some say that I must use a new drive, but in the WD caddy. Some say I need an image installed, some I don't.

Can anybody simplify this for me and give me a more firm answer? Please? 

Thanks in advance!


----------



## mattack

I know nothing about Australian Tivos.. but based upon what I just found at wikipedia, this looks like the equivalent to the "Tivo HD" model.. (not the OLED S3)

The Tivo HD *only* works with the official external drives. People may have hacked other drives, e.g. I think you can 'marry' drives manually, but I don't know how to do that.. As far as official support, you need the official drive.

I *believe* the OLED S3 "works" with basically any drive, but even it AFAIK is only "officially" supported with the external drive.

My suggestion would be to just expand the internal drive. It *might* work with the jmfs CD, which makes expansion really easy. (It basically is a text based friendly front end to the CLI tools.)

and/or get a Roamio (I have no idea if those work outside the U.S.. do other countries even use cable cards?), and plop a 3 TB drive in it..


----------



## jmbach

I agree about expanding the internal drive. There is a special version of WinMFS for the Australian TiVo. While you have it open, get a backup of your image. I have seen several people asking for an image for their Australian TiVo and never get one. It would be good to have one floating around.


----------



## Albinus

Hey guys, no TiVo here has been killed by the slough of other PVR devices on the market. I also have a FetchTV box that streams cable channels via HTTP multicast, as well as 1TB of storage and three tuners. In fact, TiVo isn't even sold here anymore, only the channel guides and movies are updated.

Is the lack of support for external drives tied into the file system or the model of WD drive? I can source a matching model of WD drive but don't want it to nuke my lifetime subscription when I plug it in.


----------



## jmbach

The TiVo subscription is tied to the motherboard. Replacing the drive does not affect anything. If you use an image from another TiVo, you will have to do a clear and delete everything first before the TiVo will work so that the motherboard serial number is embedded in the MFS structure of the drive.


----------



## steve614

Albinus said:


> Is the lack of support for external drives tied into the file system or the model of WD drive? I can source a matching model of WD drive but don't want it to nuke my lifetime subscription when I plug it in.


IIRC, the Tivo looks for a specific model # of the drive itself. If the drive ID inside the enclosure doesn't match with what's in the database, it won't work. 
The enclosure does not matter. People have had failed electronics in the enclosure, have successfully transferred the hard drive to an aftermarket enclosure, and everything still works.


----------



## unitron

There is a very short list of WD drive model numbers (of the actual raw drive itself) which any TiVo newer than the original USA Series 3 (the one with the clock display) will have and against which it will check any drive attached to the eSATA port.

If the drive inside the external enclosure is not one of those few models, the TiVo will refuse to work with it.

If the drive inside your external has truly failed (as opposed to just the enclosure or the power supply for the enclosure failing), then unfortunately, because of the way TiVo divides each recording between the internal and external drives once you hook one up, you've lost those recordings.

If this is the case, you need to instruct the TiVo to divorce the external drive.

After that is done, I suggest you use the Australian version of WinMFS to copy the internal to a 2TB (success seems to be being had in great numbers with either the WD20EURS or its successor the WD20EURX), and then, as a separate step, expand into the remaining space.

Having two drives doubles the chances of failure.


----------



## ThAbtO

unitron said:


> Having two drives doubles the chances of failure.


I think it would seem like 4x the chances, if you count each cable connection from each end of the eSATA cable, the enclosure itself, and then the drive itself.


----------



## Albinus

Thanks guys. Drive itself is toast, WD diagnostics pinned excessive sector reallocation. I have another VS drive I can gain access to, different firmware on it though. Worth a shot by the looks of it. Might get a healthy image off the 160GB while I can too.


----------



## bobock

It was worth to buy it. Cool design, easy to setup, and runs great.
Low energy consumption, dual tuner HD PVR, use on multiple technology platforms operators around the world. But the best thing is that i can record 6 shows at once.
It is expensive, but i dont regret the purchase.


----------



## DB_0673

I have a 5 yr old Tivo HD, and think I need to replace HD. ( I did originally upgrade to a 1000GB) Can't seem to find the ones on list to purchase.
Would this WD work,
WD AV-GP 1 TB AV Video Hard Drive: 3.5 Inch, SATA III, 64 MB Cache - WD10EURX (they won't let me post links yet)
Any suggestions appreciated. I want to make sure I am getting a HD that is rated for 24/7 use and would probably stick with 1000GB

Thanks in advance
Dan


----------



## TivoDawg

DB_0673 said:


> I have a 5 yr old Tivo HD, and think I need to replace HD. ( I did originally upgrade to a 1000GB) Can't seem to find the ones on list to purchase.
> Would this WD work,
> WD AV-GP 1 TB AV Video Hard Drive: 3.5 Inch, SATA III, 64 MB Cache - WD10EURX (they won't let me post links yet)
> Any suggestions appreciated. I want to make sure I am getting a HD that is rated for 24/7 use and would probably stick with 1000GB
> 
> Thanks in advance
> Dan


DB_0673 - I had the same questions and decided to just make the jump.

1. I bought the WD10EURX drive.
2. Ran wdidle3 to ensure the idle timer was disabled (to prevent the softboot problems). It was disabled out of the box, so no problems there.
3. Ran WinMFS and upgraded from an original TiVo HD drive. I also expanded the drive to use the new size, and supersized it.

All worked without fail. I have had it in the TiVo for a day or so and have seen no trouble in recordings, and no random reboots. I also transferred manually (ie. transferred via network from another TiVo box) some large recordings. So far, everything seems normal. No pixilation or random reboots. No slow tuning on over the air HD channels, etc.

I hope that helps. Please understand that this happened within the last 24 hours or so. My experience is not related to long term testing.

Has anyone else used this drive for upgrades and had problems for the TiVo HD? If so, please let us know.

Thanks,
-Randy


----------



## dlfl

You should try searching these forums on "wd10eurx" and "wd20eurx". Lots of info. The wd20 is probably the replacement drive du jour at the moment. No need to make brave decisions in the dark.


----------



## DB_0673

TivoDawg said:


> DB_0673 - I had the same questions and decided to just make the jump.
> 
> 1. I bought the WD10EURX drive.
> 2. Ran wdidle3 to ensure the idle timer was disabled (to prevent the softboot problems). It was disabled out of the box, so no problems there.
> 3. Ran WinMFS and upgraded from an original TiVo HD drive. I also expanded the drive to use the new size, and supersized it.
> 
> All worked without fail. I have had it in the TiVo for a day or so and have seen no trouble in recordings, and no random reboots. I also transferred manually (ie. transferred via network from another TiVo box) some large recordings. So far, everything seems normal. No pixilation or random reboots. No slow tuning on over the air HD channels, etc.
> 
> I hope that helps. Please understand that this happened within the last 24 hours or so. My experience is not related to long term testing.
> 
> Has anyone else used this drive for upgrades and had problems for the TiVo HD? If so, please let us know.
> 
> Thanks,
> -Randy





dlfl said:


> You should try searching these forums on "wd10eurx" and "wd20eurx". Lots of info. The wd20 is probably the replacement drive du jour at the moment. No need to make brave decisions in the dark.


Thanks for the prompt answers. Randy, how did you know that the IDLE timer was disabled out of the box. If I have to run wdidle, does it allow you to select the drive you want, I don't want it to screw up my SSD drives in my computer.
I will search and read up on the drives mentioned

Dan


----------



## unitron

DB_0673 said:


> Thanks for the prompt answers. Randy, how did you know that the IDLE timer was disabled out of the box. If I have to run wdidle, does it allow you to select the drive you want, I don't want it to screw up my SSD drives in my computer.
> I will search and read up on the drives mentioned
> 
> Dan


Boot from a cd with the

wdidle3.exe

program on it, but first disconnect the data cables from all drives except the cd or dvd deck from which you are booting and the WD drive to be adjusted if necessary.

That drive will need to be connected straight to a SATA port on the motherboard (or an IDE/PATA port with the use of a SATA/IDE adapter), and not through a USB adapater for wdidle3 to be able to access the drive on a low enough level to change the firmware.

The 10EUX should work just fine, but you might as well spend a little extra and get a much better GB/$ ratio with a WD20EURS or WD20EURX.

And of course run WD's own diagnostic software long test on the drive before doing anything else with it.


----------



## DB_0673

unitron said:


> Boot from a cd with the
> 
> wdidle3.exe
> 
> program on it, but first disconnect the data cables from all drives except the cd or dvd deck from which you are booting and the WD drive to be adjusted if necessary.
> 
> That drive will need to be connected straight to a SATA port on the motherboard (or an IDE/PATA port with the use of a SATA/IDE adapter), and not through a USB adapater for wdidle3 to be able to access the drive on a low enough level to change the firmware.
> 
> The 10EUX should work just fine, but you might as well spend a little extra and get a much better GB/$ ratio with a WD20EURS or WD20EURX.
> 
> And of course run WD's own diagnostic software long test on the drive before doing anything else with it.


Thanks
I have to figure out what or where to get the long test software
Dan


----------



## unitron

DB_0673 said:


> Thanks
> I have to figure out what or where to get the long test software
> Dan


Check your PMs.


----------



## DB_0673

unitron said:


> Check your PMs.


thanks, got them


----------



## shrike4242

Trying to do a drive upgrade on a S3 I've taken out of service and replace the original 250GB drive with a 1TB EVDS drive that I had new in box. 

I popped the drive into my external enclosure and brought up WinMFS. When it goes to select the drive, it brings up the "Error number: 9 / Error Message: Warning! / Your A drive is married to B drive but only A drive is selected" message.

The S3 used to have an external drive Seagate 750GB DB35 drive in a MX-1 enclosure, though when I took the unit out of service, I divorced the drive from the system and did a Clear Everything and Delete, so it started up as a new Tivo install.

I can't seem to figure out why the system would report that the external drive is still married to the internal drive after the clear and delete, so I'm not sure how to proceed. 

Anyone have any ideas? Should I put the 250GB drive back in the S3 and do another Clear Everything and Delete? Is there an issue with the 250GB drive and I should look into getting an image from other sources like Instant Cake, dumping the image onto the 1TB drive directly? 

Would the fact that I'm trying to do this via an external enclosure make a difference?


----------



## HerronScott

Not sure if it's needed but after the divorce and/or Clear and Delete Everything did you go through the full setup on reboot? Just wondering if the divorce is perhaps not finalized until that happens.

Scott


----------



## squint

Isn't there a "Fix divorce" option in WinMFS? I'm no expert but on a drive that's already been wiped I would try that and "Delete Format" and see what happens.


----------



## shrike4242

HerronScott said:


> Not sure if it's needed but after the divorce and/or Clear and Delete Everything did you go through the full setup on reboot? Just wondering if the divorce is perhaps not finalized until that happens.
> 
> Scott


I didn't do full setup, it was just at the initial setup screen after the C&D E process. When it was at that initial screen, I just powered it off and left it.



squint said:


> Isn't there a "Fix divorce" option in WinMFS? I'm no expert but on a drive that's already been wiped I would try that and "Delete Format" and see what happens.


I did do the "Fix Divorce" step, which didn't seem to make any difference the next time I tried the drive. What does "Delete Format" do?


----------



## Marconi

Wow. The drive upgrade sticky has not been updated in a long time. For those of us still running the TCD652160 THD DVRs, what currently available drives are satisfactory? I see mention of WD10EURX earlier. What are some other compatible drives?


----------



## dlfl

See post 9887 in this thread and following posts. Surprised you missed that.


----------



## unitron

Marconi said:


> Wow. The drive upgrade sticky has not been updated in a long time. For those of us still running the TCD652160 THD DVRs, what currently available drives are satisfactory? I see mention of WD10EURX earlier. What are some other compatible drives?


Get a WD20EURS or WD20EURX.

Use WinMFS to copy the old drive to the new after running the WD diagnostic long test on the new drive to make sure it's okay before putting it into service.

When WinMFS finally finishes copying (after looking frozen for awhile), it'll offer to expand into the rest of the space. Tell it no.

Select the new drive and run

mfsinfo

on it and make sure it looks okay and that there's a big Apple Free partition at the end of the Partition Map.

Then back out of that and run

mfsadd

to do the expansion as a separate step.


----------



## Marconi

unitron said:


> Get a WD20EURS or WD20EURX.
> 
> Use WinMFS to copy ....


I'm on Mac; I don't have Windows. I'm still using the MFSLive 1.4 CD to do my backup and copying. I don't think it much likes 2 TB drives. Looking for 1 TB drives.


----------



## unitron

Marconi said:


> I'm on Mac; I don't have Windows. I'm still using the MFSLive 1.4 CD to do my backup and copying. I don't think it much likes 2 TB drives. Looking for 1 TB drives.


Advice to do expansion as separate step still applies.

Do not use the

-x

option when doing

restore

or

copying via

backup | restore

use

mfsadd

after doing copy and checking drive with

mfsinfo

You could use

hdparm

on the MFS Live cd to make a 2TB think it's a 1TB, if necessary, or just leave it as is and let MFS Live make the third MFS pair as large as it will, and then find a friend with a "Winders" machine that'll let you stick WinMFS on it and finish the expansion on it, even after MFS Live has expanded it.

(which reminds me, I need to see if WinMFS can run, on XP, from a floppy, since it's small enough to fit)


----------



## 84lion

Hello, hope someone can help. I wanted to back up my wife's Tivo HD XL. It's a TCD658000. IIRC, the unit was a refurb unit from Tivo, we got it as a replacement for my wife's initial Tivo which HDD failed within warranty. I'm using winmfs on a Windows 7 computer. Winmfs sees the drive but says its only 63GB (the drive is a 1 TB WD10EVVS) and says its not a Tivo drive, therefore will not initiate backup or copy. My wifes Tivo is currently working fine, boots properly, no issues, no noise issues. I just want to back up the drive so that if the drive would fail, I would have a ready pop-in replacement drive available. Any thoughts on why this issue is occurring? Im running winmfs as administrator. Thanks!


----------



## jmbach

A couple of questions. One are you right clicking and then clicking on "Run as an Administrator" as you have to do that even if you are logged on as an Administrator. Two are you connecting the drive via sata, esata, or USB to the computer. 

As another approach, you can use DvrBARS to make a truncated backup of the drive.


----------



## unitron

84lion said:


> Hello, hope someone can help. I wanted to back up my wife's Tivo HD XL. It's a TCD658000. IIRC, the unit was a refurb unit from Tivo, we got it as a replacement for my wife's initial Tivo which HDD failed within warranty. I'm using winmfs on a Windows 7 computer. Winmfs sees the drive but says its only 63GB (the drive is a 1 TB WD10EVVS) and says its not a Tivo drive, therefore will not initiate backup or copy. My wifes Tivo is currently working fine, boots properly, no issues, no noise issues. I just want to back up the drive so that if the drive would fail, I would have a ready pop-in replacement drive available. Any thoughts on why this issue is occurring? Im running winmfs as administrator. Thanks!


In addition to the whole "are you _really _running as admin" thing, be sure it's looking at the right drive, make sure you didn't look at the drive with any software (like Windows disk manager)other than WinMFS, are you connecting the drive directly to a SATA port on the motherboard or using a USB (or firewire) adapter and, a long shot, but what brand is that PC motherboard?

Do you know how to burn a cd-r "as an image"?

(we might want you to boot that PC with something other than the Windows drive at some point)


----------



## master1108

unitron said:


> Get a WD20EURS or WD20EURX.
> 
> Use WinMFS to copy the old drive to the new after running the WD diagnostic long test on the new drive to make sure it's okay before putting it into service.
> 
> When WinMFS finally finishes copying (after looking frozen for awhile), it'll offer to expand into the rest of the space. Tell it no.
> 
> Select the new drive and run
> 
> mfsinfo
> 
> on it and make sure it looks okay and that there's a big Apple Free partition at the end of the Partition Map.
> 
> Then back out of that and run
> 
> mfsadd
> 
> to do the expansion as a separate step.


My understanding is that TiVoHD can't handle more than 1.26 TB. That's 160 GB original plus 1.1 TB maximum addition. Is this true? And if so why replace with a 2 TB drive?

I need to replace a failing hard drive on My HD box. I was able to do a truncated backup with WinMFS however. I am hoping to be able to copy the disk.


----------



## unitron

master1108 said:


> My understanding is that TiVoHD can't handle more than 1.26 TB. That's 160 GB original plus 1.1 TB maximum addition. Is this true? And if so why replace with a 2 TB drive?
> 
> I need to replace a failing hard drive on My HD box. I was able to do a truncated backup with WinMFS however. I am hoping to be able to copy the disk.


All three of the Series 3 models have been able to handle partitions larger than 1.2 since the software was updated to version 11.0h, although it was already up to 11.0k by the time most of us found that out.

You do have to specifically tell WinMFS that it's okay to make the partition bigger than 1.2, and you'll avoid a possible headache by doing the copying or image restoring, saying no when it offers to expand, and then checking the target drive with

mfsinfo

to make sure everything looks okay and only then as a separate step doing the expansion with

mfsadd

since sometimes it doesn't actually do the expansion when you do it all at once.


----------



## 84lion

unitron said:


> In addition to the whole "are you _really _running as admin" thing, be sure it's looking at the right drive, make sure you didn't look at the drive with any software (like Windows disk manager)other than WinMFS, are you connecting the drive directly to a SATA port on the motherboard or using a USB (or firewire) adapter and, a long shot, but what brand is that PC motherboard?
> 
> Do you know how to burn a cd-r "as an image"?
> 
> (we might want you to boot that PC with something other than the Windows drive at some point)


Thanks for the feedback. The PC I am using is a Dell Precision M6600. It does have a SATA port but winmfs sees the USB port just fine for the blank drive.
The external adapter that I had the Tivo drive in was a USB 3.0 adapter. The external adapter with the blank drive was a USB 2.0 adapter. I might try putting the Tivo drive in the USB 2.0 adapter instead and see if that makes any difference. 
Yes, I can burn a CD-R via an image. I have an older PC running XP with an old copy of Nero that I use to burn CDs. It did a great job with the image file that I used to set the blank WD HDDs using wdidle3. 
I appreciate your help. Don't know when I'll be able to get to try the backup again but when I do I'll provide a report.


----------



## master1108

unitron said:


> All three of the Series 3 models have been able to handle partitions larger than 1.2 since the software was updated to version 11.0h, although it was already up to 11.0k by the time most of us found that out.
> 
> You do have to specifically tell WinMFS that it's okay to make the partition bigger than 1.2, and you'll avoid a possible headache by doing the copying or image restoring, saying no when it offers to expand, and then checking the target drive with
> 
> mfsinfo
> 
> to make sure everything looks okay and only then as a separate step doing the expansion with
> 
> mfsadd
> 
> since sometimes it doesn't actually do the expansion when you do it all at once.


So the sticky at the beginning of this thread needs to be updated.

Curious, where did you get this information?


----------



## unitron

master1108 said:


> So the sticky at the beginning of this thread needs to be updated.
> 
> Curious, where did you get this information?


Here on TCF, somewhere, about 2 years ago, but don't expect me to be able to remember exactly where.

Actually, I first saw someone say that 11.0k would let you break the 1.2TB per partition barrier, and only later saw someone else mention that it was actually in 11.0h that they made whatever change they made that made that possible.

This was about the same time that I was discovering that WinMFS can actually increase the size of that third MFS Media partition to take advantage of extra space, a trick of which I don't think the older MFS Live or MFS Tools are capable.


----------



## unitron

84lion said:


> Thanks for the feedback. The PC I am using is a Dell Precision M6600. It does have a SATA port but winmfs sees the USB port just fine for the blank drive.
> The external adapter that I had the Tivo drive in was a USB 3.0 adapter. The external adapter with the blank drive was a USB 2.0 adapter. I might try putting the Tivo drive in the USB 2.0 adapter instead and see if that makes any difference.
> Yes, I can burn a CD-R via an image. I have an older PC running XP with an old copy of Nero that I use to burn CDs. It did a great job with the image file that I used to set the blank WD HDDs using wdidle3.
> I appreciate your help. Don't know when I'll be able to get to try the backup again but when I do I'll provide a report.


I think there are too many layers of abstraction between USB3 ports and the motherboard for some purposes, and WinMFS on Win7 may be one of them.

USB2 won't be all that much slower that you can't tolerate it just that once.

But as to the cd image burning, I was thinking you might make yourself a bootable copy of the MFS Live cd v1.4 or the latest Ultimate Boot CD, and run

hdparm -N /dev/sdX

where X is wherever you've got that drive hooked up to to see if it shows you a result in the form

number/differentnumber

to see if the explanation for that 63GB figure was some sort of hidden partition or Host Protected Area that got on there somehow.

But try it with USB2 first.


----------



## nooneuknow

unitron said:


> Here on TCF, somewhere, about 2 years ago, but don't expect me to be able to remember exactly where.
> 
> Actually, I first saw someone say that 11.0k would let you break the 1.2TB per partition barrier, and only later saw *someone else mention that it was actually in 11.0h that they made whatever change they made that made that possible.*
> 
> This was about the same time that I was discovering that WinMFS can actually increase the size of that third MFS Media partition to take advantage of extra space, a trick of which I don't think the older MFS Live or MFS Tools are capable.


That was me. The 11.0h version allowed support of larger WD DVR expander drives, which hit the store shelves, catching TiVo by surprise (they didn't know WD was going to increase the size). TiVo rushed to tack the support onto what they thought was an already finished update, and held off advertising they added it, until they were sure it didn't have issues/bugs.

It seemed to me that increasing the supported external size, would naturally increase the supported internal size. However, the tools/utilities available were, and still are, assuming that 1.26TB is the largest possible size that would work properly, thus requiring somebody to figure out how to use them in a way that would use the new capacity support. I didn't figure that part out. By the time somebody (probably by accident), did something outside the established directions to expand capacity, and had a working 2TB drive, more software releases had pushed out, with some letters skipped, due to i/j/l being too easy to confuse with each other.

The bonus that I was focused on was the increase in limits on various things in the file system/structure. I had kept exceeding limits by recording hundreds of items per folder, in SD, on a 2TB drive, using only 1.26TB of it. This would cause a KS 57/58 GSOD boot-loop, due to the inspect/repair process trying to fix things that involved limits that had been exceeded, but not being able to. The limits could be exceeded, and the TiVo would work. But, if a KS 57 or 58 was initiated, what had to be done to "fix" it would cause loss of recordings. The repairs would be attempted, but the exceeded-limit items were locked to protect loss of recordings, thus the boot-loop, and eventual wiping of the superheader (magic something or other), and an unrecoverable drive, until some members came along, not that long ago, who could tell us how to replace that header, either from a backup, or by using a hex/disk editor. I did determine that one of the items that would contain too many entries, and trip up a KS 57/58 into boot-looping, was the actual log files (or at least one of them). It's been too long for me to remember all of it, and all my notes on it are on a hard drive in a retired XP computer.

It is actually the brainiacs behind tools/utilities for the Roamio, that came up with ways to repair what had been considered unrecoverable for such a long time.

I'm not sure this post is 100% accurate. Too much is from memory, rather than my actual notes I took, to be sure.


----------



## unitron

nooneuknow said:


> That was me. The 11.0h version allowed support of larger WD DVR expander drives, which hit the store shelves, catching TiVo by surprise (they didn't know WD was going to increase the size). TiVo rushed to tack the support onto what they thought was an already finished update, and held off advertising they added it, until they were sure it didn't have issues/bugs.
> 
> It seemed to me that increasing the supported external size, would naturally increase the supported internal size. However, the tools/utilities available were, and still are, assuming that 1.26TB is the largest possible size that would work properly, thus requiring somebody to figure out how to use them in a way that would use the new capacity support. I didn't figure that part out. By the time somebody (probably by accident), did something outside the established directions to expand capacity, and had a working 2TB drive, more software releases had pushed out, with some letters skipped, due to i/j/l being too easy to confuse with each other.
> 
> The bonus that I was focused on was the increase in limits on various things in the file system/structure. I had kept exceeding limits by recording hundreds of items per folder, in SD, on a 2TB drive, using only 1.26TB of it. This would cause a KS 57/58 GSOD boot-loop, due to the inspect/repair process trying to fix things that involved limits that had been exceeded, but not being able to. The limits could be exceeded, and the TiVo would work. But, if a KS 57 or 58 was initiated, what had to be done to "fix" it would cause loss of recordings. The repairs would be attempted, but the exceeded-limit items were locked to protect loss of recordings, thus the boot-loop, and eventual wiping of the superheader (magic something or other), and an unrecoverable drive, until some members came along, not that long ago, who could tell us how to replace that header, either from a backup, or by using a hex/disk editor. I did determine that one of the items that would contain too many entries, and trip up a KS 57/58 into boot-looping, was the actual log files (or at least one of them). It's been too long for me to remember all of it, and all my notes on it are on a hard drive in a retired XP computer.
> 
> It is actually the brainiacs behind tools/utilities for the Roamio, that came up with ways to repair what had been considered unrecoverable for such a long time.
> 
> I'm not sure this post is 100% accurate. Too much is from memory, rather than my actual notes I took, to be sure.


Hey, I knew it was one of the smart people around here who told me, it's just that there's enough of them to make it hard to keep straight which is which sometimes.


----------



## master1108

Unitron, I followed your advice on a 1.5TB drive WD15EURS. I selected no when prompted to add the partition. Then selected the new drive, mfsadd and yes when prompted to make partition larger than 1TB. So far it appears to be working. The system information screen displays capacity of 237 hours for HD and 2047 hours for SD.


----------



## 84lion

unitron said:


> I think there are too many layers of abstraction between USB3 ports and the motherboard for some purposes, and WinMFS on Win7 may be one of them.
> 
> USB2 won't be all that much slower that you can't tolerate it just that once.
> 
> But as to the cd image burning, I was thinking you might make yourself a bootable copy of the MFS Live cd v1.4 or the latest Ultimate Boot CD, and run
> 
> hdparm -N /dev/sdX
> 
> where X is wherever you've got that drive hooked up to to see if it shows you a result in the form
> 
> number/differentnumber
> 
> to see if the explanation for that 63GB figure was some sort of hidden partition or Host Protected Area that got on there somehow.
> 
> But try it with USB2 first.


Just a quick note to update...I finally got a chance to unplug my wife's Tivo long enough to try the backup. I used the USB 2.0 enclosure and it worked just fine (had a minor glitch at first and had to restart winmfs, not sure what that was but ultimately no problem). Made the .tbk file just fine, and copied that to a spare drive I bought. Winmfs said both occurred successfully. It does appear that for some reason winmfs is not too keen on USB 3.0 enclosures...so save those old USB 2.0 ones! I also took the time to make a backup of my other Tivo - worked perfectly. I haven't tried the backups but I trust they're OK. It gives peace of mind to have a ready backup drive in case there would be a failure. Losing the recordings would be a shame but having the ability to get back up quickly is worth it.

Thanks!


----------



## unitron

master1108 said:


> Unitron, I followed your advice on a 1.5TB drive WD15EURS. I selected no when prompted to add the partition. Then selected the new drive, mfsadd and yes when prompted to make partition larger than 1TB. So far it appears to be working. The system information screen displays capacity of 237 hours for HD and 2047 hours for SD.


Just to be picky, you're supposed to select the new drive, then click on

mfsinfo

to make sure everything looks okay, and that you have a nice big fat Apple Free Partition at the end of the Partition Map, close that out and then click on

mfsadd

to do the expansion, and then click on

mfsinfo

again to make sure that Apple Free Partition has been swallowed up into the MFS Media partition that was just before it on the map.


----------



## master1108

unitron said:


> Just to be picky, you're supposed to select the new drive, then click on
> 
> mfsinfo
> 
> to make sure everything looks okay, and that you have a nice big fat Apple Free Partition at the end of the Partition Map, close that out and then click on
> 
> mfsadd
> 
> to do the expansion, and then click on
> 
> mfsinfo
> 
> again to make sure that Apple Free Partition has been swallowed up into the MFS Media partition that was just before it on the map.


I did do the mfsinfo before and after mfsadd. Sorry, I did leave that detail out. The Apple Free partition was 1.2TB before mfsadd. Yes, it showed as an MFS application partition and MFS media partition after. I was inclind to run mfsinfo out of curiosity anyway. I also saved copies of it before and after.

It looks like this can be done without the extra baby steps. Meaning click on yes when prompted. Have you found problems by not doing the baby steps? Or do you prefer to be on the cautionary side? Again just curious.


----------



## unitron

master1108 said:


> I did do the mfsinfo before and after mfsadd. Sorry, I did leave that detail out. The Apple Free partition was 1.2TB before mfsadd. Yes, it showed as an MFS application partition and MFS media partition after. I was inclind to run mfsinfo out of curiosity anyway. I also saved copies of it before and after.
> 
> It looks like this can be done without the extra baby steps. *Meaning click on yes when prompted. *Have you found problems by not doing the baby steps? Or do you prefer to be on the cautionary side? Again just curious.


If you mean when it finishes the copy or the restore and says there's extra room and asks if you want to expand, that's when you are not supposed to answer yes, because sometimes it works and sometimes it only appears to work and sometimes I guess it must crap out half way through and leave the drive in an unbootable state of confusion.

I fail to see the point in more people than absolutely necessary having to learn the hard way.


----------



## master1108

unitron said:


> *If you mean when it finishes the copy or the restore and says there's extra room and asks if you want to expand*, that's when you are not supposed to answer yes, because sometimes it works and sometimes it only appears to work and sometimes I guess it must crap out half way through and leave the drive in an unbootable state of confusion.
> 
> I fail to see the point in more people than absolutely necessary having to learn the hard way.


Yes that is what I meant, so you've answered my question.

Thanks, I do appreciate the help.


----------



## dstroot

what's the best/easiest drive to get these days for an s3? Since it's august 2014 a lot of info is dated... will this work: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...2136941&cm_re=WD10EURS-_-22-136-941-_-Product

Would I have to "diddle" it? Sounds dirty...


----------



## nooneuknow

dstroot said:


> what's the best/easiest drive to get these days for an s3? Since it's august 2014 a lot of info is dated... will this work: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...2136941&cm_re=WD10EURS-_-22-136-941-_-Product
> 
> Would I have to "diddle" it? Sounds dirty...


That's the model you want, the WD__EURX (or the older SATA2 EURS works just as well). No wdidle3.exe required, as the AV drives have the problematic "idle mode 3 timer" already set to disabled.

You'd still want to hook it up to a PC to run the WinDLG (WD Data Lifeguard Diagnostics for Windows) program, to do an "Extended Test" followed by "Write Zeros (using full, not partial, option), followed by the "Quick Test". Viewing the SMART data after tests is a good idea, if you are familiar with what the values mean (as opposed to just going with PASS or FAIL result per test).

That may seem backwards. But I have done extensive testing to verify this is the order to use, if you want to insure the drive is not DOA, and has no sector issues lurking anywhere on the whole drive.

USB 2.0 is excruciatingly slow, while USB 3.0 is faster than the drive is.

The non-quick tests take hours per test to complete, running at the full speed of the drive, which is a max of ~150 MByte/s (1200 Mbit/s).

USB 2.0 is ~60 MBytes/s (480Mbit/s), less 20% overhead, or ~48 MByte/s.


----------



## dstroot

nooneuknow: Awesome - thanks! 

All: If my old drive is hosed (which I fear it is) any advice on what to do?


----------



## nooneuknow

dstroot said:


> nooneuknow: Awesome - thanks!
> 
> All: If my old drive is hosed (which I fear it is) any advice on what to do?


Run the same tests (except write zeroes, if you want to try to copy it) as a starting point.


----------



## dstroot

Will do - thanks!


----------



## unitron

dstroot said:


> what's the best/easiest drive to get these days for an s3? Since it's august 2014 a lot of info is dated... will this work: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...2136941&cm_re=WD10EURS-_-22-136-941-_-Product
> 
> Would I have to "diddle" it? Sounds dirty...


That's only a 1TB drive--you can get twice as much space for only $20 more with a WD20EURS or WD20EURX.

And yes, S3s can use all 2TB as of about 3 TiVo operating system software updates ago.

If your current drive is too far dead to copy from, we can hook you up with an image for whichever S3 you have, the 648, the 652, or the 658.

You should run the manufacturer's own diagnostic long test on any new, or new to you, hard drive before putting it into service.


----------



## HomieG

I just ordered this drive for $69 plus tax, free shipping, for my S3 OLED. Supposedly has the WD20EZRX drive in the box, which was listed as working for the Series 3 units in various threads. Also available in-store for same price.

http://www.frys.com/product/7725678


----------



## nooneuknow

HomieG said:


> I just ordered this drive for $69 plus tax, free shipping, for my S3 OLED. Supposedly has the WD20EZRX drive in the box, which was listed as working for the Series 3 units in various threads. Also available in-store for same price.
> 
> http://www.frys.com/product/7725678


When on sale from Newegg (up to twice, or more, a month), you can get the WD20*EURX* AV-GP, which has a year longer warranty, for $5-$15 more, less-tax, free-shipping, tends to live a year longer, doesn't require opening a PC to make a direct SATA connection, and a special-made boot disk to run wdidle3.exe to keep the drive from hanging on any warm/soft reboot (when you menu-reboot, or the TiVo reboots itself).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236603

(Ignore the link to a "newer model available", which sends you to a drive model from the Purple/PURX line, which has no track record in TiVo, and IMO, shouldn't be used in a TiVo (until more have tried it and reported results and failure-rate).

Older threads and older posts avoided the AV-GP drives, due to the insane price-difference back then. Now that the price difference has been minimized, it's a small price to pay for the 3yr warranty, and not having to open a PC to change the idle3-timer setting (already disabled on AV-GP EURS & EURX drives). It's the only thing that can't be done with USB adapters/docks.

It's unfortunate that there's no way to fix the old threads & posts, including ones posted by me, saying that the AV-GP drives should be avoided, due to the pricing difference from back then. That's outdated advice, since the price difference is often ~$10 now, versus up to $100 then.

As long as you take care of the idle3-timer issue, it will likely work just fine, and the chances of it lasting 3 years are pretty good (but if it's just short of 3 years, you'll be past the 2 year warranty).


----------



## nooneuknow

unitron said:


> That's only a 1TB drive--you can get twice as much space for only $20 more with a WD20EURS or WD20EURX.
> 
> And yes, S3s can use all 2TB as of about 3 TiVo operating system software updates ago.
> 
> If your current drive is too far dead to copy from, we can hook you up with an image for whichever S3 you have, the 648, the 652, or the 658.
> 
> You should run the manufacturer's own diagnostic long test on any new, or new to you, hard drive before putting it into service.


Yes, that's the 1TB model. That's why I said "WD__EURX" drives are the ones.

Some, believe it or not, are still running the stock drive of 160/250GB, and can't justify spending $20 more, to go all the way to 2TB, and/or just can't imagine needing that much storage (they didn't have it before, and made it all this time without it). 1TB also eliminates the added TiVo software versions prerequisites (which requires added steps, if using a new image that doesn't have the 11.0h, or higher, software revision on it), modified steps for upgrade utilities/tools made when 1TB was the bigger size drive it was made to work with, etc...


----------



## HomieG

nooneuknow said:


> When on sale from Newegg (up to twice, or more, a month), you can get the WD20*EURX* AV-GP, which has a year longer warranty, for $5-$15 more, less-tax, free-shipping, tends to live a year longer, doesn't require opening a PC to make a direct SATA connection, and a special-made boot disk to run wdidle3.exe to keep the drive from hanging on any warm/soft reboot (when you menu-reboot, or the TiVo reboots itself).
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236603
> 
> (Ignore the link to a "newer model available", which sends you to a drive model from the Purple/PURX line, which has no track record in TiVo, and IMO, shouldn't be used in a TiVo (until more have tried it and reported results and failure-rate).
> 
> Older threads and older posts avoided the AV-GP drives, due to the insane price-difference back then. Now that the price difference has been minimized, it's a small price to pay for the 3yr warranty, and not having to open a PC to change the idle3-timer setting (already disabled on AV-GP EURS & EURX drives). It's the only thing that can't be done with USB adapters/docks.
> 
> It's unfortunate that there's no way to fix the old threads & posts, including ones posted by me, saying that the AV-GP drives should be avoided, due to the pricing difference from back then. That's outdated advice, since the price difference is often ~$10 now, versus up to $100 then.
> 
> As long as you take care of the idle3-timer issue, it will likely work just fine, and the chances of it lasting 3 years are pretty good (but if it's just short of 3 years, you'll be past the 2 year warranty).


Yep I agree. Credit card gives me another year on the 2 year warranty, making it three years. I don't mind using wdidle and will take my chances on the EZRX. My Samsung 1TB lasted some 6+ years! but they don't make 'me like that anymore! I was able to map out the few bad sectors that put the S3 into a continual reboot loop with HD Regenerator, reload the Sammy wth truncated backup from original 250GB and it is back in and running fine now for 3+ weeks, on v11.0m...but I'm sure that's borrowed time now...hence the forthcoming 2TB upgrade.


----------



## ThAbtO

HomieG said:


> I just ordered this drive for $69 plus tax, free shipping, for my S3 OLED. Supposedly has the WD20EZRX drive in the box, which was listed as working for the Series 3 units in various threads. Also available in-store for same price.





http://www.frys.com/product/7725678 said:


> WD Desktop Mainstream 2TB Internal Hard Drive Retail Kit WDBH2D0020HNC-NRSN
> 
> Frys.com #7725678
> Manufacturer: Western Digital
> UPC #718037815367
> Model #WDBH2D0020HNC-NRSN
> 
> WD Blue hard drives deliver solid performance and reliability while providing you with all the space you need to hold an enormous amount of photos, videos and files. These drives are designed for use as primary drives in desktops PCs, notebooks and external enclosures, and for certain industrial applications.


This is a Western Digital BLUE internal 2TB drive and will not work in a Tivo.


----------



## HomieG

ThAbtO said:


> This is a Western Digital BLUE internal 2TB drive and will not work in a Tivo.


I'm pretty sure it is not a WD Blue drive. Check the actual model number out at WD website. And the last picture on the Frys website. I thnk they put the wrong description in their ad, but we shall see...


----------



## ThAbtO

HomieG said:


> I'm pretty sure it is not a WD Blue drive. Check the actual model number out at WD website. And the last picture on the Frys website. I thnk they put the wrong description in their ad, but we shall see...


http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-3-5-Inch-Mainstream-WDBH2D0020HNC-NRSN/dp/B00D8X0ICQ

This is the same drive on Amazon.


----------



## HomieG

ThAbtO said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-3-5-Inch-Mainstream-WDBH2D0020HNC-NRSN/dp/B00D8X0ICQ
> 
> This is the same drive on Amazon.


Yes, and even newegg. Read the Amazon reviews and you'll see several comments that the drive in the box is a Green WD20EZRX. Confirmed at several other websites as well, including B&H, which actually states WD20EZRX in the title! And if you look at the pics on newegg, it shows it as a WD20EZRX. And WDC's own site says nothing about it being a Blue drive. But if it is a blue drive, I've got two Frys stores near me to return it, so no biggie. I'm willing to take the risk that the model is correct, and the descriptions are wrong. It happens!

FWIW, WD's website doesn't even show a 2TB Blue 3.5" hard drive.

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/internal/desktop/

I appreciate your pointing this out. Yes, there's conflicting info, for sure!


----------



## nooneuknow

HomieG said:


> I'm pretty sure it is not a WD Blue drive. Check the actual model number out at WD website. And the last picture on the Frys website. I thnk they put the wrong description in their ad, but we shall see...


If I had checked the link, rather than going by your description of what you say the link is getting you (you say a WD20EZRX, which is a Desktop GREEN, and acceptable, though not best available option), I'd have been sounding the alarm, right away.

I keep looking and looking for hope you will get a WD20EZRX "Green" drive. But, based on my experiences (especially with Fry's, where I no longer buy from), I have strong doubts that you will get what you are expecting. The WD Green Desktop drive is a LESSER drive than the Blue is, in the big picture. In the TiVo-picture, you don't want the Blue.

That's the other benefit of just going with an AV-GP drive. The odds of ordering, and you getting what you expect, are highly in your favor.

If you get the wrong one, and get an AV-GP to resolve it, you'll have a 4 year warranty, if your card truly adds a year.

If I were in your shoes, and could cancel the order, I would. If not, and looking for best chances of fast gratification, I'd order the AV-GP, and just plan on returning the other one, no matter what it turns out to be, when it arrives.


----------



## unitron

HomieG said:


> I just ordered this drive for $69 plus tax, free shipping, for my S3 OLED. Supposedly has the WD20EZRX drive in the box, which was listed as working for the Series 3 units in various threads. Also available in-store for same price.
> 
> http://www.frys.com/product/7725678


How are you getting free (or any) shipping on something they say is only available "in store"?


----------



## HomieG

unitron said:


> How are you getting free (or any) shipping on something they say is only available "in store"?


They put free shipping on it earlier today. And then took it away. Check back from time to time and it reappears. Also, page 2 of their Friday newspaper ad here shows free shipping as well. Here's a screenshot of my order.


----------



## HomieG

unitron said:


> How are you getting free (or any) shipping on something they say is only available "in store"?


FWIW, as I write this post, Frys again is offering free shipping on this drive. Don't know for how long, though...


----------



## Teeps

"It" aint FREE if someone else is paying for "it."

Better stated would be "price; shipping included."


----------



## HomieG

Teeps said:


> "It" aint FREE if someone else is paying for "it."
> 
> Better stated would be "price; shipping included."


According to the ad, "FREE SHIPPING." According to the actual web page, "SHIPS FREE."

Geeez, I thought I was retentive...


----------



## HomieG

The 2TB drive noted above arrived today from Frys. Indeed it is a WD20EZRX in the box. Though the box itself is blue, there's a green sticker on it. Attached herewith is a pic of the actual drive label.

Also, had a friend by the exact same drive from BestBuy (for $20 more). It also was a WD20EZRX in a blue box. 

Drive from Frys was 69.99 with tax, free shipping, through today, at the link noted earlier in this thread above.

Idle timer was set to 8 seconds. Reset it to disable which makes it 62 minutes, via wdidle3.exe.

Aligned the partitions.

Restored v11.0m from truncated backup. Expanded and the partition map looks correct.

Rechecked idle timer and partition alignment and they didn't change. Now running diag utilities to give the new drive a good workout before installing in TiVo. Have a couple of shows to watch on the old drive tonight, and don't really care to copy suggestions or season passes, and channel lineup so will do the swap out tomorrow to my S3 OLED and rerun guided setup if needed (truncated backup was made from existing drive in S3).

Thanks to all for their help!


----------



## valley_nomad

I have a TiVoHD with 1TB internal drive and 1TB external drive. After running 24/7 for about 7 years, it starts to show some problems caused by those drives. So I decided to replace them with just one internal drive. 

I just realized from this thread that the new version of TiVo software is now able to use the internal drive bigger than 1TB. The original post in the beginning of this thread is obviously outdated. Are there a new instruction for replacing/upgrading and a new compatible drive list? I have one WD20EARS and one ST32000543AS available. Is one of them compatible for TiVoHD? 

Since the current internal drive may already have some corrupted bits and I don't plan to keep the existing recordings, I will try to use the original 160GB drive as the source in the process. But it has a very old version of TiVo software. Is there a way to manually upgrade it to the latest version instead of waiting for auto downloading?


----------



## ThAbtO

valley_nomad said:


> I have a TiVoHD with 1TB internal drive and 1TB external drive. After running 24/7 for about 7 years, it starts to show some problems caused by those drives. So I decided to replace them with just one internal drive.
> 
> I just realized from this thread that the new version of TiVo software is now able to use the internal drive bigger than 1TB. The original post in the beginning of this thread is obviously outdated. Are there a new instruction for replacing/upgrading and a new compatible drive list? I have one WD20EARS and one ST32000543AS available. Is one of them compatible for TiVoHD?
> 
> Since the current internal drive may already have some corrupted bits and I don't plan to keep the existing recordings, I will try to use the original 160GB drive as the source in the process. But it has a very old version of TiVo software. Is there a way to manually upgrade it to the latest version instead of waiting for auto downloading?


You can use the WD drive and not have to run WDIdle3.exe to disable its parking function (most likely disabled already.)

The Tivo software needs to be at least 11.0k to handle the full 2TB of the drive. The only way to update it is to have it connect to Tivo Service connection, several times if necessary. If you can divorce the external drive and have it reboot without it, you can easily backup to the new drive. You need to make sure the Tivo is rebooted without the drive or else it may be difficult to backup/restore the image.


----------



## unitron

ThAbtO said:


> You can use the WD drive and not have to run WDIdle3.exe to disable its parking function (most likely disabled already.)
> 
> The Tivo software needs to be at least 11.0k to handle the full 2TB of the drive. The only way to update it is to have it connect to Tivo Service connection, several times if necessary. If you can divorce the external drive and have it reboot without it, you can easily backup to the new drive. You need to make sure the Tivo is rebooted without the drive or else it may be difficult to backup/restore the image.


If s/he uses the WD20EARS, it probably _*will*_ be necessary to disable Intellipark.

The EARS wasn't an AV drive, just a Caviar Green.

However, it should work okay in any of the 3 S3 models once you disable Intellipark or set the timer period for something ridiculously high, like 300 seconds.

*
valley_nomad*

As I said that EARS should probably work and that Seagate might as well, but you should run the manufacturer's own diagnostic software long test on each before using either in a new application, regardless of how new or old they are or how much previous use they've seen.

Since you don't plan to try to save any recordings that simplifies things considerably.

What you should probably do is long test both of those 2TB drives, and assuming they both pass, figure out which one you're going to use, copy the original 160 to the other one as a backup for safety, then put the 160 back into the TiVo (I'm assuming it was not "married" to an external when you took it out) and let it contact TiVo and update itself to the latest version of the software.

After it's done that you can copy it to one of those 2TB drives, test it in the TiVo, then pull it back out and enlarge to the full 2TB with

mfsadd


----------



## hummingbird_206

2 years ago I installed a 2 TB drive in my S3. Well, that drive is now having problems as confirmed by kickstart 54 (getting pixelation and audio dropouts.). I want to put in another 2 TB drive.

Should I just be able to use WinMFS to copy the old 2 TB drive to the new 2 TB drive?

Now for what drive to get, anyone know if the WD purple WD20PURX will work in an S3?

eta: Or how about the green WD20NPVX?


----------



## HomieG

hummingbird_206 said:


> 2 years ago I installed a 2 TB drive in my S3. Well, that drive is now having problems as confirmed by kickstart 54 (getting pixelation and audio dropouts.). I want to put in another 2 TB drive.
> 
> Should I just be able to use WinMFS to copy the old 2 TB drive to the new 2 TB drive?
> 
> Now for what drive to get, anyone know if the WD purple WD20PURX will work in an S3?
> 
> eta: Or how about the green WD20NPVX?


Don't know about those model numbers, but I just put a WD20EZRX in my S3 OLED TiVo. Works fine. You can buy the bare version with that model, or the retail boxed version called Mainstream Desktop in a blue box (ignore the description, which says it's a Blue drive..not correct...WD doesn't make a 2TB blue drive)...it's a WD20EZRX (a green drive) in the blue mainstream box. I paid $69.99 plus tax, shipped free from Frys. Don't thing they still have that deal.

I did have to run WDIDLE3 to set the idle timer...in my case I just set it to 62 minutes, which is the max.

I was able to successfully copy the old 1TB drive to the new 2TB drive with WinMFS.

Good luck!


----------



## nooneuknow

hummingbird_206 said:


> 2 years ago I installed a 2 TB drive in my S3. Well, that drive is now having problems as confirmed by kickstart 54 (getting pixelation and audio dropouts.). I want to put in another 2 TB drive.
> 
> Should I just be able to use WinMFS to copy the old 2 TB drive to the new 2 TB drive?
> 
> Now for what drive to get, anyone know if the WD purple WD20PURX will work in an S3?
> 
> eta: Or how about the green WD20NPVX?


I advise avoiding the WD Purple PURX line for TiVo use. It has worked for one member, who only used it for developing a free 4TB option for the TiVo Roamio (not as an drive intended to keep using). Despite Newegg's site (incorrectly) claiming the PURX is a newer model of the AV-GP EURX, when viewing certain sizes, that's not what it is. It has a "compatibility list" on WD's website. If you have problems, WD will point out that it has that list. TiVo is not on it.

I use the WD Red NAS EFRX for 3TB drives for my Roamios. Others have used them in Premieres and Roamios. They also have a compatibility list, which TiVo is not on. I have had some issues, which seem to be due to features these drives have. Rather than time-out on a trouble sector, these drives (and the Purple ones) have TLER, which handles errors differently, as would be desired in a RAID array, but seems to be a bad way in a TiVo. You won't notice these issues, unless you develop a corrupt/weak sector. Then, the last thing you would suspect is the drive, unless you look there first, and known how to use smartmontools to get into the drive's internal logs (far beyond what SMART attributes tell you).

My advice: Just stick with the type of drive TiVo uses (WD AV-GP EURX, or the seagate equivalent), plus you will get a three year warranty.

If saving ~$5-$15 trumps getting a 3yr warranty, having the drive TiVo uses, and that has the best track record, you can use just about any "Green" drive, but will only get a 2 year warranty.

I'm appalled by the recent guy who blew back into TCF, after being away for a long time, only to go against all the current and established advice, and point people to cheap drives, with a 2 year warranty. *He gets a 3yr warranty because of the credit card he used to purchase the drive.*

I (along with many others) used to advise not paying more for AV drives, since TiVo doesn't use the AV feature set, and they used to cost ~$100 more. I feel an extra year of manufacturer warranty, alone, is worth the current extra ~5-$15, with all the rest being icing on the cake.

It's your TiVo, and your choice to make. I just want you to be able to make an informed decision. The WD20NPVX drive is a 2.5" Green drive, that I have no experience with, have never seen used by anybody else here, and most 2.5" drives, especially Green ones, are designed to be in various states of idle modes, standby modes, low-power modes, (and more power-off, than power-on time). I can't say it "won't work", but can say I would avoid any drive designed specifically designed for the opposite of 24/7/365 use.

Some will say all drives are the same. I respectfully disagree, and say you should do you own research (outside of TCF). I'm not going to debate with those that still insist that all drives are designed for 24/7/365 operation. It's just pointless to even try.

You WILL have issues with the "idle mode 3 timer" on *non* AV-GP drives, unless you disable it, or change the timer value to 300 seconds. The Roamio no longer has an issue with the timer. Older models still do.


----------



## hummingbird_206

Thanks HomieG and nooneuknow. I haven't kept up with the newest drives and appreciate your feedback.

I'm getting a WD20EURX delivered today (thanks to Amazon same day delivery!)

I used the instructions from Lussie back when I went from 1 TB to 2 TB. Since I'm going from 2 TB to another 2 TB, do I need to do the iBored stuff on the new drive after I do the copy?


----------



## nooneuknow

hummingbird_206 said:


> Thanks HomieG and nooneuknow. I haven't kept up with the newest drives and appreciate your feedback.
> 
> I'm getting a WD20EURX delivered today (thanks to Amazon same day delivery!)
> 
> I used the instructions from Lussie back when I went from 1 TB to 2 TB. Since I'm going from 2 TB to another 2 TB, do I need to do the iBored stuff on the new drive after I do the copy?


I do believe that all that iBored stuff has been rendered needless, since software v11.0h (most current is 11.0m). After TiVo updated the software to support the larger external expander drives WD had already started selling, past internal limits went away (or at least were less limited, allowing 2TB internal, without all the extra work).

You'll need to check the upgrade threads for your model, and get the current methods to use. Unfortunately, there's vast amounts of outdated "how to" threads, stickys, and posts. I don't have the links to post bookmarked. Somebody else should be around soon to help with that.

[EDIT/ADD] S3 (but not TiVo HD) models might still require some additional steps. Best to just seek out current info for yours.

Good luck!


----------



## hummingbird_206

nooneuknow said:


> I do believe that all that iBored stuff has been rendered needless, since software v11.0h (most current is 11.0m). After TiVo updated the software to support the larger external expander drives WD had already started selling, past internal limits went away (or at least were less limited, allowing 2TB internal, without all the extra work).
> 
> You'll need to check the upgrade threads for your model, and get the current methods to use. Unfortunately, there's vast amounts of outdated "how to" threads, stickys, and posts. I don't have the links to post bookmarked. Somebody else should be around soon to help with that.
> 
> [EDIT/ADD] S3 (but not TiVo HD) models might still require some additional steps. Best to just seek out current info for yours.
> 
> Good luck!


I thought this was the thread for the S3? Is there more current info somewhere else (my search skills on TCF suck)?


----------



## nooneuknow

hummingbird_206 said:


> I thought this was the thread for the S3? Is there more current info somewhere else (my search skills on TCF suck)?


It is. But, there's multiple threads, some for the different tools you can use.

This is a good example of a thread where you just don't know where to start reading at. Plus, there's the whole TiVo HD technically being the S3 platform, so the two are always getting mixed-up. I never owned an original S3, which is why I don't know enough to walk you through what is current.

My search skills on TCF suck, as well. I have had far better luck using Google and confining the search to this site.


----------



## hummingbird_206

Gotcha, thanks! 

I do have the original S3 w/ OLED display.

I think I'll just try the copy and pop the drive in and see what happens (because I'm kinda lazy!)


----------



## jmbach

You just need to copy the drive intact from one to the other. No other modifications need to be done. Now if the original drive has some corrupted information in the bad spots, that will be copied over as well. If you are having pixelation problems, I would also look at the power supply for and bad capacitors.


----------



## HomieG

nooneuknow said:


> I'm appalled by the recent guy who blew back into TCF, after being away for a long time, only to go against all the current and established advice, and point people to cheap drives, with a 2 year warranty. *He gets a 3yr warranty because of the credit card he used to purchase the drive.*


Besides being appalled, you can also add being ignored to your list. What a freakin' blowhard.


----------



## hummingbird_206

jmbach said:


> You just need to copy the drive intact from one to the other. No other modifications need to be done. Now if the original drive has some corrupted information in the bad spots, that will be copied over as well. If you are having pixelation problems, I would also look at the power supply for and bad capacitors.


Thanks for the recommendation. I did a visual of the p/s and didn't see any obviously bulging caps. Since kickstart 54 did fail, I'm 'fairly' confident that the hd is the problem. (hope those aren't famous last words.)

Off to WD website to find the drive diagnostics s/w that I see mentioned here to run before using the new WD20EURX drive. But if someone has a link handy and wants to post, please do so...have I told you all my search skills suck?

eta: I think I found the WD s/w, Data Lifeguard Diagnostics.


----------



## unitron

hummingbird_206 said:


> Thanks for the recommendation. I did a visual of the p/s and didn't see any obviously bulging caps. Since kickstart 54 did fail, I'm 'fairly' confident that the hd is the problem. (hope those aren't famous last words.)
> 
> Off to WD website to find the drive diagnostics s/w that I see mentioned here to run before using the new WD20EURX drive. But if someone has a link handy and wants to post, please do so...have I told you all my search skills suck?
> 
> eta: I think I found the WD s/w, Data Lifeguard Diagnostics.


WD (and several other brand) diagnostic software (and lots of other stuff, including wdidle3.exe) available on the Ultimate Boot CD (an image of which you can download for free).


----------



## nooneuknow

unitron said:


> WD (and several other brand) diagnostic software (and lots of other stuff, including wdidle3.exe) available on the Ultimate Boot CD (an image of which you can download for free).


Just keep in mind that WD has updated the version of wdidle3.exe, as well as just (very) recently updating Data Lifeguard Diagnostics, as it does so, more often than you'd expect.

I'm wondering if the possibility of having outdated versions just might be linked to the number of reports I've seen of drive failing immediately, upon beginning a test. Some of the changes have been about removing components of each test (like testing the cable as the first step, invisible to the user), then adding that test back in, after fixing the issue that test had. Each test does more than what the name implies.

The changelogs for DLG/WinDLG show it's not all about updating for newer, or larger drives. There's a lot of things going on. I'd never consider running an old version, unless I had no internet access.

What are the odds that any Ultimate Super whatever CD has a version of something released ~a month ago? Those CDs have been great for me. But, when it comes to the software being current, not so great, and sometimes has been a problem.

The way I see it, is that if somebody can take the time to download the UBCD, and burn an ISO for it, they can (and should) take the time to check the versions.

Unfortunately, WD has cracked down. They no longer allow you to download drive tools/utilities, unless you have a drive registered to you, that the tool is meant for. This is a problem, with wdidle3.exe, since I've never owned, or registered the drives, that tool was made to be used on (which is a short list of drives, nobody would ever use in a TiVo). Thus, I can't download it again, should it have an updated version released.

I can truthfully say that I've experienced problems, using older versions, which were resolved by newer versions.


----------



## hummingbird_206

Holy moly, copy has been running for 36 hours and still at it! Going by the progress bar, I'd say it's about 80% complete. Using USB 2.0. I deleted all but 96 hours of HD recordings and did a permanent delete of all stuff in the deleted folder. It is still going though, so that's a good thing (2 TB drive to 2 TB drive.) But wow, sure wish I had USB 3.0.


----------



## HerronScott

I'm pretty sure that deleting content and emptying the deleted items folder doesn't make a difference in copy times. Wow as to 36 hours though. For comparison, it took about 4.5 hours with internal SATA connections to copy a 1TB drive.

Scott


----------



## lpwcomp

hummingbird_206 said:


> Holy moly, copy has been running for 36 hours and still at it! Going by the progress bar, I'd say it's about 80% complete. Using USB 2.0. I deleted all but 96 hours of HD recordings and did a permanent delete of all stuff in the deleted folder. It is still going though, so that's a good thing (2 TB drive to 2 TB drive.) But wow, sure wish I had USB 3.0.





HerronScott said:


> I'm pretty sure that deleting content and emptying the deleted items folder doesn't make a difference in copy times. Wow as to 36 hours though. For comparison, it took about 4.5 hours with internal SATA connections to copy a 1TB drive.
> 
> Scott


Yes, it's just doing a byte for byte copy, so deleting recordings does nothing.


----------



## nooneuknow

lpwcomp said:


> Yes, it's just doing a byte for byte copy, so deleting recordings does nothing.


Exactly. Even with SATA-II, which is much faster than a 5400RPM "green" drive internally transfers at (up to ~160MB/s outer tracks, down to ~50MB/s inner tracks), a sector-level clone takes ~6 hours (3TB), even if cloning a drive never written to (all zeroes).

Realistic USB 2.0 transfer speeds, if each device is on it's own controller, is ~48MB/s, half that if sharing a controller via root hub.

There's no getting around this on a well-used drive, unless doing a truncated backup and restore, losing all recordings. I'm fairly sure a custom-made image wouldn't play well with the usual methods of doing so.

On the bright side, it makes sure that all sectors can be written to. That just leaves running an equally long read-all-sectors test (if desired), to verify what has been written can be read (just because a sector accepts a write, doesn't guarantee it will read back without error).


----------



## unitron

hummingbird_206 said:


> Holy moly, copy has been running for 36 hours and still at it! Going by the progress bar, I'd say it's about 80% complete. Using USB 2.0. I deleted all but 96 hours of HD recordings and did a permanent delete of all stuff in the deleted folder. It is still going though, so that's a good thing (2 TB drive to 2 TB drive.) But wow, sure wish I had USB 3.0.


Depending on the hardware involved, a USB3 port might not work unless the OS loads the driver for it, and the OS that runs the diagnostics might not have the driver.


----------



## unitron

nooneuknow said:


> Just keep in mind that WD has updated the version of wdidle3.exe, as well as just (very) recently updating Data Lifeguard Diagnostics, as it does so, more often than you'd expect.
> 
> I'm wondering if the possibility of having outdated versions just might be linked to the number of reports I've seen of drive failing immediately, upon beginning a test. Some of the changes have been about removing components of each test (like testing the cable as the first step, invisible to the user), then adding that test back in, after fixing the issue that test had. Each test does more than what the name implies.
> 
> The changelogs for DLG/WinDLG show it's not all about updating for newer, or larger drives. There's a lot of things going on. I'd never consider running an old version, unless I had no internet access.
> 
> What are the odds that any Ultimate Super whatever CD has a version of something released ~a month ago? Those CDs have been great for me. But, when it comes to the software being current, not so great, and sometimes has been a problem.
> 
> The way I see it, is that if somebody can take the time to download the UBCD, and burn an ISO for it, they can (and should) take the time to check the versions.
> 
> Unfortunately, WD has cracked down. They no longer allow you to download drive tools/utilities, unless you have a drive registered to you, that the tool is meant for. This is a problem, with wdidle3.exe, since I've never owned, or registered the drives, that tool was made to be used on (which is a short list of drives, nobody would ever use in a TiVo). Thus, I can't download it again, should it have an updated version released.
> 
> I can truthfully say that I've experienced problems, using older versions, which were resolved by newer versions.


I tested an EURX with whatever version of the WD diagnostic is on a UBCD from a year or so ago, and I don't think I had any problems with incomptibility.

But I've got an EZRX (for non-TiVo use) I bought recently and haven't unwrapped yet, and I think I'll learn from your experiences and go the registration route before long-testing it.


----------



## nooneuknow

unitron said:


> Depending on the hardware involved, a USB3 port might not work unless the OS loads the driver for it, and the OS that runs the diagnostics might not have the driver.


True, which has been a problem with many UBCD-type distros (not sure of the current state of all of them). Any chance you might prod the slackers to get the drivers updated? I think even JMFS is limited to USB 2.0, IIRC. I've seen reports, and some evidence, that USB 2.0 devices plugged into USB 3.0 host ports can get a slight boost. This still requires the drivers for the host controller chipset, though.

Another way to do it would be to use any version of Windows with USB 3.0 support, and DVRBARS, which runs within windows, or HDD Raw Copy Tool, which does as well.

If I had known what hummingbird_206 was going to do, I'd have tried to come up with the fastest way to get from drive A to drive B.


----------



## hummingbird_206

Finished copying, yay! Now have the message up that there is extra capacity on the drive, do I want to expand. Do I answer no?


----------



## nooneuknow

hummingbird_206 said:


> Finished copying, yay! Now have the message up that there is extra capacity on the drive, do I want to expand. Do I answer no?


If the drives are the same size, answer no. If you have any doubts, say no. You can always do that step later, if need be.

Next step: Put it in TiVo and see what happens. If the capacity is off, then you can revisit if there is any more to be done to the drive.

Good luck!


----------



## hummingbird_206

Drives are the same size, so answered No. Thanks!


----------



## nooneuknow

hummingbird_206 said:


> Drives are the same size, so answered No. Thanks!


For the record, IIRC, the "expand? y/n" prompt appears regardless of if there is any extra space, every time. But, in the cases where it is known there is extra space (like a larger drive), the correct answer is still no, and you want to do it as a separate step, or it likely won't work anyway (due to some glitch).

I can't recall any "bad things" that might happen by answering yes, in either case. But, here's unitron's chance to "school me" if I got any of this wrong.


----------



## hummingbird_206

The new drive appears to have fixed the pixelation issue. And I'm at 318 hours of capacity. Yippee! Thanks to everyone for the help.

Now though with the new drive, when I push the TiVo button to go the menus, the menu comes up, but the current TV show stays up playing in the background. Never seen that before! Is this a new feature, or did I screw something up, or huh? Anyone got any ideas? I'm off to google, but thought I'd ask here, too.


----------



## nooneuknow

hummingbird_206 said:


> The new drive appears to have fixed the pixelation issue. And I'm at 318 hours of capacity. Yippee! Thanks to everyone for the help.
> 
> Now though with the new drive, when I push the TiVo button to go the menus, the menu comes up, but the current TV show stays up playing in the background. Never seen that before! Is this a new feature, or did I screw something up, or huh? Anyone got any ideas? I'm off to google, but thought I'd ask here, too.


*Highly edited/extended post from original post:*

No, it's not a new (or previously undiscovered) feature, if it's as I'm picturing what you say. Is it something you could describe better, and/or provide a picture of happening? It should work the way it did before the issues started. No new functions/features should magically happen.

I suggest doing a KS52, see what happens, then do KS 57 if not resolved, then try KS58 if not resolved.

KS52 is the "least likely to brick" kickstart, which re-installs the current software to the alternate partition, and switches it active, after doing a battery of cleanups and integrity tests, designed to function as they would when an update is released, and TiVo doesn't want update-bricked units.

Other things to try: Reboot with Clear Program Information & To Do List, Reboot with C&DE, etc, all the way up to starting over with a new image.


----------



## hummingbird_206

Here's the screenshot. I was watching ESPN and when I pushed the TiVo button, the menu came up while the show continued to play, including audio.


----------



## nooneuknow

hummingbird_206 said:


> Here's the screenshot. I was watching ESPN and when I pushed the TiVo button, the menu came up while the show continued to play, including audio.


Very neat! Still, not right, shouldn't happen. See my edits to my prior post, if you want to attempt to get back to "proper operation", which would be good for insuring proper future operation, and less issues creeping in.

I kind of wish what yours is doing was a TiVo function that we could toggle.


----------



## hummingbird_206

nooneuknow said:


> Very neat! Still, not right, shouldn't happen. See my edits to my prior post, if you want to attempt to get back to "proper operation", which would be good for insuring proper future operation, and less issues creeping in.
> 
> I kind of wish what yours is doing was a TiVo function that we could toggle.


Yeah, I do kind of like it, but it can be hard to actually read the menus.  But I figured something wasn't right. I'll try the KS's you reference above later today and report back.


----------



## lpwcomp

hummingbird_206 said:


> Yeah, I do kind of like it, but it can be hard to actually read the menus.  But I figured something wasn't right. I'll try the KS's you reference above later today and report back.


Do you have audio in this situation? If not, then IIRC this is caused by a missing or corrupt background graphic file.


----------



## hummingbird_206

lpwcomp said:


> Do you have audio in this situation? If not, then IIRC this is caused by a missing or corrupt background graphic file.


Yes, still have audio.


----------



## hummingbird_206

nooneuknow said:


> *Highly edited/extended post from original post:*
> 
> No, it's not a new (or previously undiscovered) feature, if it's as I'm picturing what you say. Is it something you could describe better, and/or provide a picture of happening? It should work the way it did before the issues started. No new functions/features should magically happen.
> 
> I suggest doing a KS52, see what happens, then do KS 57 if not resolved, then try KS58 if not resolved.
> 
> KS52 is the "least likely to brick" kickstart, which re-installs the current software to the alternate partition, and switches it active, after doing a battery of cleanups and integrity tests, designed to function as they would when an update is released, and TiVo doesn't want update-bricked units.
> 
> Other things to try: Reboot with Clear Program Information & To Do List, Reboot with C&DE, etc, all the way up to starting over with a new image.


KS52 ran, no difference.


----------



## lpwcomp

hummingbird_206 said:


> Yes, still have audio.


Is it just TiVo Central that is transparent?


----------



## hummingbird_206

lpwcomp said:


> Is it just TiVo Central that is transparent?


It's everything that displays when the TiVo button is pressed, TiVo Central, Now Playing, Messages and Settings, everything. Live TV and Recordings are working fine though.:up:


----------



## nooneuknow

hummingbird_206 said:


> KS52 ran, no difference.


Even if you completed all the other kickstarts and actions I listed, and one of them fixed it, how much would you trust that nothing else is wrong?

Is it worth always wondering if every future glitch is somehow related, or that fear that your new drive might have a problem already (in the future)?

I'm going to say the best thing you could do for yourself, is to start-over, building a new image on your drive, using a backup image of another S3 to image the drive.

DVRBARS runs within Windows, and the author (ggieseke) likely has a known-good image you could start with. PM him with your TCD model number, and details of your use for the image. Unless he (or somebody else) has done all the work, and made a backup of a S3 already upgraded to 2TB, You'll only use DVRBARS for getting the stock image to the 2TB drive, and you'll have to do the remaining work with other tools/utilities known to work for S3, to do the expanding & supersizing.

DVRBARS modified/truncated backups can fit on a DVD or thumb-drive, and the writing to the drive as fast as the slowest link to the drive, or the drive itself.

telemark is the guy who made the 4TB image for Roamios, and made it available free, is currently one of the most valuable assets here, for the newer TiVos. He could probably walk you through anything, if you know linux (he's not a Windows guy, unlike ggieseke).

Me... Well, being how long it has been since I used WinMFS, MFSLive, or even JMFS, my memory is starting to fail. There are differences between the TiVo HD, like I used to own, and the S3, as you are already aware of. I'm also a Windows guy, often having to relearn non-windows syntax for linux tools/utilities.

I think it's best I back-off, and stick to answering questions that I know the answer to, without any doubts. So, that means me not giving advice on more than getting a good image to work with and applying it to the drive. I'm not up to trying to walk you through a S3 expansion. I likely recall less than you do about what makes them different from a TiVo HD.


----------



## hummingbird_206

Thanks nooneuknow. I have the original drive, so could use that for the image. You make good points about things maybe going south in the future. But I'm pretty lazy so I'm going to leave the drive as is for now and see what happens.


----------



## unitron

nooneuknow said:


> For the record, IIRC, the "expand? y/n" prompt appears regardless of if there is any extra space, every time. But, in the cases where it is known there is extra space (like a larger drive), the correct answer is still no, and you want to do it as a separate step, or it likely won't work anyway (due to some glitch).
> 
> I can't recall any "bad things" that might happen by answering yes, in either case. But, here's unitron's chance to "school me" if I got any of this wrong.


The bad thing that might happen if you don't expand later as a separate step is that the TiVo might not recognize the drive as a TiVo drive and you have to do the restore or copy all over again.

I guess there's something it needs to write to the drive to "finalize" things, and doing the expansion as part of the copy or restore process sometimes screws that up somehow for some reason.

I don't begin to claim to understand it, but I seem to have figured out how to avoid it.


----------



## unitron

I have had the "transparent overlay, audio not muted" happen before on S2s, and it was a temporary thing.

Wish I could toggle it, so I could see what I wanted to and still hear the audio and sort of see the video.


----------



## dlfl

AArrghh! Have I screwed up??

I just used WinMFS to put a 1TB .tbk truncated backup onto a WD20EURS drive.

I backed up from the .tbk file and said "no" when it asked to expand and closed the backup panel.
Then I selected mfsadd and entered 1024 for swap size. Here is the part that surprised (and worries) me:
It said it was about to create a partition greater than the 1 TB that a standard TiVo could handle and did I want to do that? I said to continue.
***Was this the wrong choice?***
When I then tried to turn supersize on, it says it failed -- which doesn't seem right. (??)

I've attached the saved info file after all this.

If I made the wrong choice, how do I make it right?

*EDIT:* After extensive searching in the upgrade forum, I'm pretty well convinced all is well with what I did. I now know that I answered the greater-then-1TB question correctly, and I've found two posts saying that if you are restoring from a backup of a previous WinMFS upgrade that used Supersize (which is my situation), then you are already supersized.

I would still appreciate someone looking at what I've done and the attached info file to see if it looks good.


----------



## ravingfans

Hi All, I just got off the phone with TiVo support and we were trying to figure out why my S3 TiVo doesn't work correctly with Season Pass Manager at TiVo (dot) com. I upgraded to 2TB internal several years ago, but never used SPM. Of course once they discovered the drive ID was out of range they said they could not provide any support.

Do any of you know whether there are issues with upgrading the HDD or with doing a PROM mod and the TiVo showing up on SPM or in the TiVo App on iPad?

Thanks!


----------



## HomieG

ravingfans said:


> Hi All, I just got off the phone with TiVo support and we were trying to figure out why my S3 TiVo doesn't work correctly with Season Pass Manager at TiVo (dot) com. I upgraded to 2TB internal several years ago, but never used SPM. Of course once they discovered the drive ID was out of range they said they could not provide any support.
> 
> Do any of you know whether there are issues with upgrading the HDD or with doing a PROM mod and the TiVo showing up on SPM or in the TiVo App on iPad?
> 
> Thanks!


FWIW, I upgraded my S3 "648 acouple of months ago to 2TB. Have had zero problems with SPM at tivo dot com.


----------



## ravingfans

HomieG said:


> FWIW, I upgraded my S3 "648 acouple of months ago to 2TB. Have had zero problems with SPM at tivo dot com.


Thanks, good data point. Did you build your own 2TB drive or did you acquire from WK (dot) com? Also, do you have the PROM Mod installed or is it a stock S3?


----------



## jmbach

dlfl said:


> AArrghh! Have I screwed up??
> 
> I just used WinMFS to put a 1TB .tbk truncated backup onto a WD20EURS drive.
> 
> I backed up from the .tbk file and said "no" when it asked to expand and closed the backup panel.
> Then I selected mfsadd and entered 1024 for swap size. Here is the part that surprised (and worries) me:
> It said it was about to create a partition greater than the 1 TB that a standard TiVo could handle and did I want to do that? I said to continue.
> ***Was this the wrong choice?***
> When I then tried to turn supersize on, it says it failed -- which doesn't seem right. (??)
> 
> I've attached the saved info file after all this.
> 
> If I made the wrong choice, how do I make it right?
> 
> *EDIT:* After extensive searching in the upgrade forum, I'm pretty well convinced all is well with what I did. I now know that I answered the greater-then-1TB question correctly, and I've found two posts saying that if you are restoring from a backup of a previous WinMFS upgrade that used Supersize (which is my situation), then you are already supersized.
> 
> I would still appreciate someone looking at what I've done and the attached info file to see if it looks good.


A cursory glance over your expansion looks correct. Does it give you the correct number of hours of recording time for the drive.


----------



## dlfl

jmbach said:


> A cursory glance over your expansion looks correct. Does it give you the correct number of hours of recording time for the drive.


Thanks. I'm preparing this drive to replace my current 1 TB drive when it eventually fails -- it's performing fine now after 5+ years. I use a usb-sata adapter for my WinMFS work and, since my USB setup is only USB 2, I only do a truncated backup/restore due to time considerations. I have a number of recordings on the 1 TB drive that I need to view. Due to where it's located swapping a drive in/out is a lot of work.

Bottom line: I'm not planning to test the 2 TB drive until the 1 TB fails.

One thing that puzzles me and I haven't found anything on it after hours of searching: The "Total SA SD Hours" reported by mfsinfo doesn't match the SD hours reported in the TiVo. Using my 1 TB drive as an example, mfsinfo says 1040 hrs while the TiVo says 1367 hours. The mfsinfo number for my 2 TB upgrade says 2082 hours, i.e., almost exactly twice the 1 TB number. So I'm hopeful that's a good sign.


----------



## jmbach

The calculations are all estimates and they vary because of different formulas used for the calculation.

I would still recommend testing because not every restore is 100%. There could have been a glitch in writing the disk while you were restoring.


----------



## HomieG

ravingfans said:


> Thanks, good data point. Did you build your own 2TB drive or did you acquire from WK (dot) com? Also, do you have the PROM Mod installed or is it a stock S3?


It's a stock S3, other than the hard drive. "Built" the 2TB drive as a copy from a 1TB drive.


----------



## Teeps

ravingfans said:


> Hi All, I just got off the phone with TiVo support and we were trying to figure out why my S3 TiVo doesn't work correctly with Season Pass Manager at TiVo (dot) com. I upgraded to 2TB internal several years ago, but never used SPM. Of course once they discovered the drive ID was out of range they said they could not provide any support.
> 
> Do any of you know whether there are issues with upgrading the HDD or with doing a PROM mod and the TiVo showing up on SPM or in the TiVo App on iPad?
> 
> Thanks!


What does that mean?

Once tivo discovers a machine is modded they shun them like the plague.
That being said.
I've used the season pass manager at tivo.com (via desktop computer winxp & win7) and have not had any problems, that I could connect as being caused or because of SPM at tivo.com.


----------



## unitron

dlfl said:


> AArrghh! Have I screwed up??
> 
> I just used WinMFS to put a 1TB .tbk truncated backup onto a WD20EURS drive.
> 
> I backed up from the .tbk file and said "no" when it asked to expand and closed the backup panel.
> Then I selected mfsadd and entered 1024 for swap size. Here is the part that surprised (and worries) me:
> It said it was about to create a partition greater than the 1 TB that a standard TiVo could handle and did I want to do that? I said to continue.
> ***Was this the wrong choice?***
> When I then tried to turn supersize on, it says it failed -- which doesn't seem right. (??)
> 
> I've attached the saved info file after all this.
> 
> If I made the wrong choice, how do I make it right?
> 
> *EDIT:* After extensive searching in the upgrade forum, I'm pretty well convinced all is well with what I did. I now know that I answered the greater-then-1TB question correctly, and I've found two posts saying that if you are restoring from a backup of a previous WinMFS upgrade that used Supersize (which is my situation), then you are already supersized.
> 
> I would still appreciate someone looking at what I've done and the attached info file to see if it looks good.


The choice of a different swap size should have come when you set it up to restore from the .tbk file, and the offer to expand should only have come up after the restore was done.

What you do is restore (after specifying swap size) and then when it finishes and offers to expand you say no.

Then you check the drive with

mfsinfo

and if all looks well you then expand with

mfsadd


----------



## nooneuknow

Teeps said:


> What does that mean?
> 
> Once tivo discovers a machine is modded they shun them like the plague.
> That being said.
> I've used the season pass manager at tivo.com (via desktop computer winxp & win7) and have not had any problems, that I could connect as being caused or because of SPM at tivo.com.


While TiVo has the right to both void warranties, and deny support, after discovery (or user disclosure) of an upgraded hard drive, enforcement has been hit and miss. All it takes to discover the drive, is a call to support, and a CSR that takes notice of (or looks for) what drive model the TiVo logs say is detected.

I fail to see ANY reason why an upgraded hard drive (alone, working properly) would make the online Season Pass Mangler fail to operate normally (normally = randomly re-orderings SPs, invalidating some, failing to copy some, not using the order you select, marking some as "corrupt - delete me", etc).

All these normal operation issues of TiVo online Season Pass Mangler can nearly always be resolved by instead using KMTTG to manage, copy, and transfer SPs. If that fails to be the case, then I'd consider that the upgraded drive was not upgraded correctly, and/or there is something actually wrong with the hard drive, and/or the data on it is corrupted.

Just don't expect TiVo to provide any support for problems on a unit with any unapproved drive. Internally, this means any drive not having the exact same model number of any of the ones they factory installed in that model TiVo. Externally, this means any drive not approved, by TiVo, for use as an external expander drive.

I'm still a bit dumbfounded by how the Weaknees business model works out, when it comes to support, which WK can't/doesn't provide, and only TiVo could. It works out great for everybody, but the end-user. WK profits, gives a limited warranty on the hardware, but voids any responsibility for TiVo to support the end-user, without replacing that support themselves. In effect, WK profits on the upgrade sale, TiVo profits by being able to say "we don't support unauthorized drives/modifications/repairs", and the end-user only gains capacity, while losing the right to demand support.


----------



## ej42137

Given the quality of support we have come to expect from TiVo CSRs, is the loss all that great when one turns to Weaknees?


----------



## nooneuknow

ej42137 said:


> Given the quality of support we have come to expect from TiVo CSRs, is the loss all that great when one turns to Weaknees?


To each their own. Even some of the people who have found their way here, would never jeopardize being able to call TiVo for support. They buy a TiVo with a capacity that meets their expected needs. If later on they need more, they buy a TiVo-approved expander drive, no matter how many folks here say that's about the worst choice for increasing capacity.

While it doesn't happen, all the time, TiVo has denied support, for non drive-related issues, upon noticing drive changes. They have that right. WeaKnees does not replace that support.

Some manage to get the support they need from TiVo, and never find their way here, even years after being a TiVo user, and more than one generation.

I would say it's safe to say that most TiVo owners (big picture, beyond TCF members), don't buy the smallest capacity model, and install the biggest drive it will take.


----------



## dlfl

unitron said:


> The choice of a different swap size should have come when you set it up to restore from the .tbk file, and the offer to expand should only have come up after the restore was done.
> 
> What you do is restore (after specifying swap size) and then when it finishes and offers to expand you say no.
> 
> Then you check the drive with
> 
> mfsinfo
> 
> and if all looks well you then expand with
> 
> mfsadd


I must have remembered the order incorrectly -- the swap size must have been entered at the point you specified.

Anyway, I attached the mfsinfo dump after the complete process to post #9981 here if you would want to comment on it.

I wonder if anyone could say whether "Total SA SD hours" of 2082 (in mfsinfo) is normal for a supersized 2 TB winmfs upgrade?


----------



## Teeps

nooneuknow said:


> I fail to see ANY reason why an upgraded hard drive (alone, working properly) would make the online Season Pass Mangler fail to operate normally (normally = randomly re-orderings SPs, invalidating some, failing to copy some, not using the order you select, marking some as "corrupt - delete me", etc).
> 
> All these normal operation issues of TiVo online Season Pass Mangler can nearly always be resolved by instead using KMTTG to manage, copy, and transfer SPs. If that fails to be the case, then I'd consider that the upgraded drive was not upgraded correctly, and/or there is something actually wrong with the hard drive, and/or the data on it is corrupted.


I agree that replacing a hdd with more capacity should not have an adverse effect on a TiVo's operation.
But, according to TiVo support. That is the reason that GC will not complete on my upgraded (2TB hdd by dvr_dude) machine unless the T/A is powered down for 4 hours or longer daily or a couple times a week. (this advice not offered up by TiVo support.)

kmttg does not work with S3(648250) except transferring files to computer.
Life would be much easier if it did.


----------



## nooneuknow

Teeps said:


> I agree that replacing a hdd with more capacity should not have an adverse effect on a TiVo's operation.
> But, according to TiVo support. That is the reason that GC will not complete on my upgraded (2TB hdd by dvr_dude) machine unless the T/A is powered down for 4 hours or longer daily or a couple times a week. (this advice not offered up by TiVo support.)
> 
> kmttg does not work with S3(648250) except transferring files to computer.
> Life would be much easier if it did.


I guess you can ignore my advice to back up your SPs first, using KMTTG, in the other thread.

All this (new) talk of larger hard drives equalling incomplete GC is new to me. Not the issue, on it's own, but the alleged correlation of the two, by TiVo, just recently.

TiVo may claim it doesn't affect stock drives. But years ago, I proved them wrong on that, as did others, who put stock drives back in, and enjoyed it while it lasted, only to see it creep up on stock drives, too.

Admittedly, you have to run the stock drives with the same workload of SPs and amount of recordings scheduled, even if you can't keep up watching them. If you cut down the workload to allow only recording of what you can watch in time, you are changing other variables, which point more towards how "busy" the TiVo is, crunching data for the anticipated workload, than the actual size of the drive.


----------



## ravingfans

nooneuknow said:


> only to see it creep up on stock drives, too.


Interesting, I didn't realize the problem was reproduced on stock drives--I was out of the forums for a few years once my problem was dormant. I take it the end result was TiVo didn't look into the problem?


----------



## unitron

dlfl said:


> I must have remembered the order incorrectly -- the swap size must have been entered at the point you specified.
> 
> Anyway, I attached the mfsinfo dump after the complete process to post #9981 here if you would want to comment on it.
> 
> I wonder if anyone could say whether "Total SA SD hours" of 2082 (in mfsinfo) is normal for a supersized 2 TB winmfs upgrade?


I have to my immediate right a TCD648250 with a 2TB drive inside.

System Info says

Recording Capacity: Variable, up to 287 HD hours, or 2511 SD hours

Did not Supersize

Used a swap partition size of 1GB or thereabouts. I may have entered 1000 or I may have entered 1024.


----------



## nooneuknow

ravingfans said:


> Interesting, I didn't realize the problem was reproduced on stock drives--I was out of the forums for a few years once my problem was dormant. I take it the end result was TiVo didn't look into the problem?


The end-result was TiVo saying they were looking into it (in a way that I heard as the opposite). It was the usual situation where there were threads full of users talking about it, and every single one who called TiVo got told "they were the first to ever claim such a problem, and nobody else had reported it".

TiVo did the same thing with the infamous "Gray Screen" issue with S3/HD, until right before they finally had a fix for it, and only once it was in final field-trials phase. Deny, deny, deny, announce and roll fix...


----------



## dlfl

unitron said:


> I have to my immediate right a TCD648250 with a 2TB drive inside.
> 
> System Info says
> 
> Recording Capacity: Variable, up to 287 HD hours, or 2511 SD hours
> 
> Did not Supersize
> 
> Used a swap partition size of 1GB or thereabouts. I may have entered 1000 or I may have entered 1024.


OK, thanks but that's the info from the TiVo when the drive is installed. I'm asking what mfsinfo says for "Total SA SD Hours" on a 2 TB drive that has been expanded and supersized with WinMFS. My TiVo is a 652 model BTW.

Given the ever present advice to save mfsinfo files at all stages of a WinMFS drive upgrade I was hoping someone could answer that. Obviously it would be preferable to put this drive in the TiVo and test it but I'm not planning to do that now for reasons explained earlier.


----------



## HerronScott

dlfl said:


> OK, thanks but that's the info from the TiVo when the drive is installed. I'm asking what mfsinfo says for "Total SA SD Hours" on a 2 TB drive that has been expanded and supersized with WinMFS. My TiVo is a 652 model BTW.
> 
> Given the ever present advice to save mfsinfo files at all stages of a WinMFS drive upgrade I was hoping someone could answer that. Obviously it would be preferable to put this drive in the TiVo and test it but I'm not planning to do that now for reasons explained earlier.


Our HD was originally upgraded to 2TB using JMFS so it's not exactly the same as yours but it is supersized and expanded.

Total SA SD Hours: 2083	Total DTV SD Hours: 1818 1 % Free
Software: 11.0m-01-2-652	Tivo Model: TCD652160

Our S3 was originally upgraded to 1TB using WinMFS and then recently upgraded to 2TB using some scripts provided here to copy and align the partitions and then expanded with WinMFS (it was supersized with the original upgrade).

Total SA SD Hours: 2083	Total DTV SD Hours: 1818 50 % Free
Software: 11.0m-01-2-648	Tivo Model: TCD648250B

Scott


----------



## dlfl

HerronScott said:


> Our HD was originally upgraded to 2TB using JMFS so it's not exactly the same as yours but it is supersized and expanded.
> 
> Total SA SD Hours: 2083	Total DTV SD Hours: 1818 1 % Free
> Software: 11.0m-01-2-652	Tivo Model: TCD652160
> 
> Our S3 was originally upgraded to 1TB using WinMFS and then recently upgraded to 2TB using some scripts provided here to copy and align the partitions and then expanded with WinMFS (it was supersized with the original upgrade).
> 
> Total SA SD Hours: 2083	Total DTV SD Hours: 1818 50 % Free
> Software: 11.0m-01-2-648	Tivo Model: TCD648250B
> 
> Scott


Thanks! My SD hours is only one different from yours at 2082. So I'm encouraged to think my upgrade is good. AFAIK, the consensus is that alignment (for 4K aligned drives) has not been shown to be important.


----------



## HerronScott

dlfl said:


> Thanks! My SD hours is only one different from yours at 2082. So I'm encouraged to think my upgrade is good. AFAIK, the consensus is that alignment (for 4K aligned drives) has not been shown to be important.


I would agree that your upgrade is probably fine.

Regarding the 4k alignment, my personal experience with our HD which was originally upgraded from the original 160GB to a 2TB using JMFS was that there was an obvious slowness in the menus after the upgrade. It was very noticeable when scrolling through upcoming episode descriptions using page up/down. While upgrading our 2 S3's to 2TB, I went back and realigned the partitions back to the same drive for the HD which resolved this slowness.

Since no one else has mentioned seeing this with the other 2TB upgrades on S3's and HD's, I can only assume it was a one-off issue with ours but the realignment did "fix" it. Also, even if generally there is no performance penalty in the S3 and HD, I feel better that I've at least done as much as possible to reduce any additional drive overhead/motion (and "wear"?) caused by the misalignment.

Scott


----------



## nooneuknow

HerronScott said:


> I would agree that your upgrade is probably fine.
> 
> Regarding the 4k alignment, my personal experience with our HD which was originally upgraded from the original 160GB to a 2TB using JMFS was that there was an obvious slowness in the menus after the upgrade. It was very noticeable when scrolling through upcoming episode descriptions using page up/down. While upgrading our 2 S3's to 2TB, I went back and realigned the partitions back to the same drive for the HD which resolved this slowness.
> 
> Since no one else has mentioned seeing this with the other 2TB upgrades on S3's and HD's, I can only assume it was a one-off issue with ours but the realignment did "fix" it. Also, even if generally there is no performance penalty in the S3 and HD, I feel better that I've at least done as much as possible to reduce any additional drive overhead/motion (and "wear"?) caused by the misalignment.
> 
> Scott


I was waiting for you to respond, before I said anything (adding to your post, to help make it more complete). I knew you would speak-up, as I followed your experiences, and related discussions.

RMW (Read-Modify-Write) operations, which have to read a whole 4K sector into cache, then change it to match even a single write to just one of the emulated 512-byte sectors, are why the capacity of drive cache sizes doubled (or more) with AF drives. They had to, to hide the performance penalties inside the drives. Just because they managed to hide it, doesn't make it "not there". RMW tends to not be an issue with long, sequential, operations, as the whole 4K sector is going to be rewritten, anyway, allowing for a write, without a RMW operation.

Where it all starts falling apart, is when the drive data fragments, and the operations can no longer be internally performed sequential.

The other issue, is unaligned drives place emulated sectors straddling two 4K sectors, now requiring two whole 4K sectors to be done with RMW, where an aligned drive would only require one.

Running unaligned, can overwhelm the drive, to the point the cache can't mask the internal penalties. For TiVo use, most are unlikely to see a difference. But, you are not the only one who has noticed a difference.

Setting aside the matter of penalties to internal performance, and how they are masked, an unaligned drive will, in theory, degrade and fail, before it would, if aligned. There is no theory factor, when it comes to additional workload being added by RMW operations, even when aligned. It get's worse, when not aligned.

If people don't care what is going on inside, or how many excessive internal operations are added to the workload, as long as the speed doesn't suffer, all I can say to attempt make them care, is to ask a question: Do you want the drive lifespan to last what it should last for, or don't you care?

Unless you align the drive, you are going to shorten the life of the drive, in regards to what the life would have been, if aligned. I can assure everybody this is true, even in TiVo use. The AV data will get fragmented, making the long, sequential, operations have to be performed semi-sequential, and there's more than just AV data on a TiVo drive.

I can't say, for certain, why some see a difference, and some don't, performance-wise, in TiVo useage. I've been watching who requests what images, for what reasons, and what other pertinent data they share. My early predictions for early failures, seem to be proving themselves. I'm sure others can make endless claims of other possible reasons for the failures. Let them, if they must.


----------



## HerronScott

nooneuknow said:


> I can't say, for certain, why some see a difference, and some don't, performance-wise, in TiVo useage. I've been watching who requests what images, for what reasons, and what other pertinent data they share. My early predictions for early failures, seem to be proving themselves. I'm sure others can make endless claims of other possible reasons for the failures. Let them, if they must.


I'd be interested in dlfl's experience testing with his original drive and the replacement 2TB drive doing the following.

- Search for Big Bang Theory
- View upcoming episodes
- View the description for the first episode shown
- Use Page/Chan down to quickly cycle through upcoming show descriptions

I can go through about 3 episodes per second (15 per 5 seconds) or maybe a touch faster and only occasionally get the error sound but on our HD before aligning the partitions there was no way we could do it any where near that fast. It was enough that my son even commented on it when I told him how to look for upcoming episodes that he had missed.

Our 1TB drives in the S3's were still working well after 6 years (and passed all WD tests since I was curious) and I'm hoping that the 2TB drives last just as long. 

Scott


----------



## _dylan

Hi, 

So I have Premier Model TCD746320 with an extra 1 TB of tivo approved external storage,

But just my luck it looks like the internal drive has died.

Luckily from reading the forums it looks like I can just swap them out.

But I believe I'll need to find original drive to make a copy?

I wanted to come to the experts and see what the best solution is.

I believe the the easiest solution is just to grab drive from WK or Ebay but I'm somewhat technical and want to solve this myself if I could.

Thanks for any advice.

- Dylan


----------



## dlfl

HerronScott said:


> I'd be interested in dlfl's experience testing with his original drive and the replacement 2TB drive doing the following.
> 
> - Search for Big Bang Theory
> - View upcoming episodes
> - View the description for the first episode shown
> - Use Page/Chan down to quickly cycle through upcoming show descriptions
> 
> I can go through about 3 episodes per second (15 per 5 seconds) or maybe a touch faster and only occasionally get the error sound but on our HD before aligning the partitions there was no way we could do it any where near that fast. It was enough that my son even commented on it when I told him how to look for upcoming episodes that he had missed.
> 
> Our 1TB drives in the S3's were still working well after 6 years (and passed all WD tests since I was curious) and I'm hoping that the 2TB drives last just as long.
> 
> Scott


Well it goes fast enough with my 1 TB drive, which is a WinMFS upgrade. The drive is a WD10EADS and does not have 4K sectors. It may be quite a while before I try the 2 TB drive since (as mentioned earlier) I'm just keeping that one on the shelf until the 1 TB drive fails. I wish my TiVo was in a more accessible location that didn't require a one hour, back-wrenching, operation to swap a drive. Then I would be more inclined to experiment to satisfy our curiosity.

What does it take to make my 2 TB drive 4K-aligned? The drive is available and I have the WinMFS .tbk backup from my 1 TB drive to start with. Is there a MFS tool that would allow me to tell whether the drive is aligned? (I know there are many posts scattered all over this forum on these topics but finding them is more than I want to do right now, and then what you find may have been superseded by later posts anyway.)


----------



## ggieseke

_dylan said:


> Hi,
> 
> So I have Premier Model TCD746320 with an extra 1 TB of tivo approved external storage,
> 
> But just my luck it looks like the internal drive has died.
> 
> Luckily from reading the forums it looks like I can just swap them out.
> 
> But I believe I'll need to find original drive to make a copy?
> 
> I wanted to come to the experts and see what the best solution is.
> 
> I believe the the easiest solution is just to grab drive from WK or Ebay but I'm somewhat technical and want to solve this myself if I could.
> 
> Thanks for any advice.
> 
> - Dylan


You can create a new drive from a backup image using DvrBARS. If it's larger than the original 320GB drive you will also need jmfs to expand it.

Both programs are available in the Upgrade Center, and I sent you a link to the image.

I would recommend going to a single 2TB internal drive and leaving the expander off altogether.


----------



## Teeps

So, is this hard drive expansion thread for all models of TiVo or just S3?

My Premiere (758) Elite's hdd failed last Sunday (12Oct2014) after 2 years and 2 weeks of service.
Best tivo would offer was $49 for a refurb and transfer my subscription fee to the replacement unit.

I'm in the process of using ddrescue to hopefully save the recordings.
If not I have a .VHD image for 758 machine to install and start over.

Update: 0930 hrs (14 Oct 2014) ddrescue completed with 87 errors and 500Mb of data loss.

TiVo not happy, can't get it to do kick start 57.
Startup Screen > Almost There > GSOD > Reboot, Startup Screen > Almost There > GSOD; repeat.
Now installing a VHD image I found online.

Update: 1350 hrs (14 Oct 2014)
Image completed. TiVo happy, but is back to square one.
Doing guided setup now.

Oh yeah, for those interested I used DvrBARS to load the .VHD image to the new hdd.
This still took about 4.5 hours.


----------



## ThAbtO

Teeps said:


> So, is this hard drive expansion thread for all models of TiVo or just S3?
> 
> My Premiere (758) Elite's hdd failed last Sunday (12Oct2014) after 2 years and 2 weeks of service.
> Best tivo would offer was $49 for a refurb and transfer my subscription fee to the replacement unit.
> 
> I'm in the process of using ddrescue to hopefully save the recordings.
> If not I have a .VHD image for 758 machine to install and start over.
> 
> Update: 0930 hrs (14 Oct 2014) ddrescue completed with 87 errors and 500Mb of data loss.
> 
> TiVo not happy, can't get it to do kick start 57.
> Startup Screen > Almost There > GSOD > Reboot, Startup Screen > Almost There > GSOD; repeat.
> Now installing a VHD image I found online.
> 
> Update: 1350 hrs (14 Oct 2014)
> Image completed. TiVo happy, but is back to square one.
> Doing guided setup now.
> 
> Oh yeah, for those interested I used DvrBARS to load the .VHD image to the new hdd.
> This still took about 4.5 hours.


Reminder: Since you may be using an image that is not from the original Tivo, You may need to run "Clear & delete Everything" to marry the image. Indications include TSN with ZEROs in System Information.


----------



## Teeps

ThAbtO said:


> Reminder: Since you may be using an image that is not from the original Tivo, You may need to run "Clear & delete Everything" to marry the image. Indications include TSN with ZEROs in System Information.


From what I saw, during guided setup, cable card and T/A authorization.
The image must have been a virgin image.
It was the same setup, experience, as a TiVo out of the box. Except I didn't have to call to start the TiVo subscription.

Bummer was all of my season passes (100) were all lost!
I'm going to rebuild them daily, so as to maintain priority status as I like.


----------



## ThAbtO

Teeps said:


> From what I saw, during guided setup, cable card and T/A authorization.
> The image must have been a virgin image.
> It was the same setup, experience, as a TiVo out of the box. Except I didn't have to call to start the TiVo subscription.
> 
> Bummer was all of my season passes (100) were all lost!
> I'm going to rebuild them daily, so as to maintain priority status as I like.


Albeit, its better to check to see that your TSN shows in System Information, rather than find out its missing after Guided Setup and have to run it a second time following CD&E. Although with a virgin image, there is no choice but the GS, then CD&E, GS again.


----------



## nooneuknow

ThAbtO said:


> Although with a virgin image, there is no choice but the GS, then CD&E, GS again.


With a true "virgin" image, there is *no choice*, but to boot straight into Guided Setup, and *no need* to do a C&DE.

I also regularly made updated images with newer software, ran C&DE, then pulled power at the reboot point, after C&DE boot-time process completed (at the first Welcome boot screen, before the kickstart window of opportunity, and Almost There, second screen that follows). No C&DE needed for these images, either.

Factory images (and already C&DE processed, updated ones) are not married to the TSN, until after they reach the kickstart entry opportunity (amber LED on). If you let an unmarried drive get to the Almost There screen, it's now married, and too late to avoid requiring a C&DE, if an image is made after that point. Images make before a factory drive is ever booted, are true "virgin" images, and negate the need for a C&DE.


----------



## Teeps

ThAbtO said:


> Albeit, its better to check to see that your TSN shows in System Information, rather than find out its missing after Guided Setup and have to run it a second time following CD&E. Although with a virgin image, there is no choice but the GS, then CD&E, GS again.


During boot up. There was a prompt that said something about checking account status. After that cleared out TiVo continued Guided Setup...
(Seems like there was a question about whether or not an account was active or not; I clicked yes.)
The TSN on the XL4 matches what is on TiVo Central online, and says in good standing on the machine.


----------



## ggieseke

My 748 and 758 images were taken from factory TiVos before they were ever powered up.

The 746 image is a different story and does require a C&DE.


----------



## Teeps

ggieseke said:


> My 748 and 758 images were taken from factory TiVos before they were ever powered up.
> 
> The 746 image is a different story and does require a C&DE.


The very 758 image I used; thanks very much!


----------



## HerronScott

dlfl said:


> Well it goes fast enough with my 1 TB drive, which is a WinMFS upgrade. The drive is a WD10EADS and does not have 4K sectors. It may be quite a while before I try the 2 TB drive since (as mentioned earlier) I'm just keeping that one on the shelf until the 1 TB drive fails. I wish my TiVo was in a more accessible location that didn't require a one hour, back-wrenching, operation to swap a drive. Then I would be more inclined to experiment to satisfy our curiosity.


Darn, I was hoping someone else would be able to do a before and after comparison!



dlfl said:


> What does it take to make my 2 TB drive 4K-aligned? The drive is available and I have the WinMFS .tbk backup from my 1 TB drive to start with. Is there a MFS tool that would allow me to tell whether the drive is aligned? (I know there are many posts scattered all over this forum on these topics but finding them is more than I want to do right now, and then what you find may have been superseded by later posts anyway.)


You can start with this thread here where CrashHD and I were doing this with a lot of help from jmbach. It has a link to the shell scripts (thanks marwatk!).

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=519991

I used a SLAX 7 iso created by cykotix which includes the scripts to do my alignment.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10122061#post10122061

Note that there is an issue with using the original version of the shell scripts on the iso and WinMFS expanded drives due to what appears to be a bug in WinMFS and what it writes for the drive type labels. The latest version of the scripts work around that issue (but I don't believe they are on the iso) or you can fix the drive type labels which is a little more indepth.

Scott


----------



## dlfl

HerronScott said:


> .........
> You can start with this thread here where CrashHD and I were doing this with a lot of help from jmbach. It has a link to the shell scripts (thanks marwatk!).
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=519991
> 
> I used a SLAX 7 iso created by cykotix which includes the scripts to do my alignment.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10122061#post10122061
> 
> Note that there is an issue with using the original version of the shell scripts on the iso and WinMFS expanded drives due to what appears to be a bug in WinMFS and what it writes for the drive type labels. The latest version of the scripts work around that issue (but I don't believe they are on the iso) or you can fix the drive type labels which is a little more indepth.
> 
> Scott


Thanks but it didn't take long looking at those threads to realize this is something I'm not going to attempt -- too much to unravel there.

I would be interested in just learning whether the 2TB expansion that I already have is 4K aligned, however -- if that can be done using the mfsinfo dump that I have. Here is what I have surmised from looking at the partition map listing:
1. The "length" and "base" are given in units of 512 bytes. Thus 4K alignment requires the base be a multiple of 8 (8 x 512 = 4096).
2. For the purposes of minimizing thrashing due to splitting across sectors, the partitions that count the most are those labeled "MFS Media Region", of which there are three. This is based on the idea that these partitions contain the video data, which comprises the bulk of the workload for the disk.

Based on this premise, not all my partitions are 4K aligned but the huge 1.7T MFS Media Region is. So it looks like thrashing should be substantially reduced.

Does this make sense?

The mfsinfo dump was attached to earlier post #9981 and here is the link to the attachment: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=21674&d=1412796823


----------



## ThAbtO

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----------



## nooneuknow

The same 3TB drive (Plain Green, 2yr warranty, WD30EZRX), from Newegg, $104.99, no promo code required, free shipping: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136874

The 3TB WD AV-GP (24x7x365 AV-GreenPower, 3yr warranty, WD30EURX) $135.99: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236602

The 3TB WD Purple, which is NOT "a newer model of the AV-GP", like Newegg's page claims (AV TLER/ERC-enabled, 3yr warranty, WD30PURX): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236660

WD Purple WD30PURX 3TB SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Hard Drive
*$129.99 + 10% off w/ promo code PP1016EX, ends 10/19*

The 3TB WD Red NAS $120.99 (24x7x365, AV TLER/ERC-enabled, 3yr warranty, WD30EFRX): $120.99: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236344

Note the only drive with only a 2yr mfg warranty is the slightly cheaper plain Green drive, which requires intellipark to be disabled, unless it's going into a Roamio (which requires a PC, direct SATA connection, and boot CD to do).



ThAbtO said:


> WD Green 3 TB Desktop Hard Drive, Cool and Quiet with Optimal Energy Efficiency - 3.5" - Sata 6 Gb/s, Intellipower, 64MB Cache, 2yr Warranty - WD30EZRX
> 
> List Price:
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> $10 Off Use coupon at checkout RJY143479
> 10/19/2014 11:59 PM ET


----------



## HerronScott

dlfl said:


> Thanks but it didn't take long looking at those threads to realize this is something I'm not going to attempt -- too much to unravel there.
> 
> I would be interested in just learning whether the 2TB expansion that I already have is 4K aligned, however -- if that can be done using the mfsinfo dump that I have. Here is what I have surmised from looking at the partition map listing:
> 1. The "length" and "base" are given in units of 512 bytes. Thus 4K alignment requires the base be a multiple of 8 (8 x 512 = 4096).
> 2. For the purposes of minimizing thrashing due to splitting across sectors, the partitions that count the most are those labeled "MFS Media Region", of which there are three. This is based on the idea that these partitions contain the video data, which comprises the bulk of the workload for the disk.
> 
> Based on this premise, not all my partitions are 4K aligned but the huge 1.7T MFS Media Region is. So it looks like thrashing should be substantially reduced.
> 
> Does this make sense?
> 
> The mfsinfo dump was attached to earlier post #9981 and here is the link to the attachment: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=21674&d=1412796823


I'd have to let someone with more experience answer your question. Unfortunately my partition map is going to be slightly different for our S3's since they started with a larger hard drive and for our HD since we expanded it with JMFS (only 14 partitions instead of 15).

Here's the S3:



Code:


Partition Maps
 #:                  type name                            length base      ( size  )
  1   Apple_partition_map Apple                               [email protected]         (  31.5K)
  2                 Image Bootstrap 1                          [email protected] (   4.0K)
  3                 Image Kernel 1                          [email protected] (   4.0M)
  4                  Ext2 Root 1                          [email protected] ( 256.0M)
  5                 Image Bootstrap 2                          [email protected] (   4.0K)
  6                 Image Kernel 2                          [email protected] (   4.0M)
  7                  Ext2 Root 2                          [email protected] ( 256.0M)
  8                  Swap Linux swap                      [email protected] ( 128.0M)
  9                  Ext2 /var                            [email protected] ( 256.0M)
 10                   MFS MFS application region          [email protected] ( 288.0M)
 11                   MFS MFS media region             [email protected] ( 103.4G)
 12                   MFS MFS application region 2        [email protected] ( 288.0M)
 13                   MFS MFS media region 2           [email protected]        ( 128.1G)
 14                   MFS MFS App by Winmfs                 [email protected] (   1.0M)
 15                   MFS MFS Expanded by Winmfs      [email protected] (   1.6T)

and the HD:



Code:


Partition Maps
 #:                  type name                            length base      ( size  )
  1   Apple_partition_map Apple                               [email protected]         (  31.5K)
  2                 Image Bootstrap 1                          [email protected] (   4.0K)
  3                 Image Kernel 1                          [email protected] (   4.0M)
  4                  Ext2 Root 1                          [email protected] ( 256.0M)
  5                 Image Bootstrap 2                          [email protected] (   4.0K)
  6                 Image Kernel 2                          [email protected] (   4.0M)
  7                  Ext2 Root 2                          [email protected] ( 256.0M)
  8                  Swap Linux swap                      [email protected] ( 128.0M)
  9                  Ext2 /var                            [email protected] ( 256.0M)
 10                   MFS MFS application region          [email protected] ( 288.0M)
 11                   MFS MFS media region             [email protected] (  65.6G)
 12                   MFS MFS application region 2        [email protected] ( 288.0M)
 13                   MFS MFS media region 2           [email protected]        (  82.0G)
 14                   MFS MFS media region 3          [email protected] (   1.7T)

Scott


----------



## jmbach

@dlfl No it is not 4k aligned.


----------



## nooneuknow

Partition Table: 
#	StartSector	SizeInSectors	Name	Type
1	0x00000001	0x0000003F	Apple	Apple_partition_map
2	0x12735840	0x00000008	Bootstrap 1	Image
3	0x12735848	0x00002000	Kernel 1	Image
4	0x12737848	0x00080000	Root 1	Ext2
5	0x127B7848	0x00000008	Bootstrap 2	Image
6	0x127B7850	0x00002000	Kernel 2	Image
7	0x127B9850	0x00080000	Root 2	Ext2
8	0x12839850	0x00096000	Linux swap	Swap
9	0x128CF850	0x00080000	/var	Ext2
10	0x1294F850	0x00090000	MFS application region	MFS
11	0x0A3F4840	0x08341000	MFS media region	MFS
12	0x129DF850	0x00090000	Second MFS application region	MFS
13	0x00000040	0x0A3F4800	Second MFS media region	MFS
14	0x12A6F850	0x00001000	New MFS Application	MFS
15	0x12A70850	0x7FFF8000	New MFS Media	MFS
16	0x92A68850	0x563A0060	New MFS Media	MFS

Physical Disk Layout: 
#	StartSector	SizeInSectors	Name	Type
1	0x00000001	0x0000003F	Apple	Apple_partition_map
13	0x00000040	0x0A3F4800	Second MFS media region	MFS
11	0x0A3F4840	0x08341000	MFS media region	MFS
2	0x12735840	0x00000008	Bootstrap 1	Image
3	0x12735848	0x00002000	Kernel 1	Image
4	0x12737848	0x00080000	Root 1	Ext2
5	0x127B7848	0x00000008	Bootstrap 2	Image
6	0x127B7850	0x00002000	Kernel 2	Image
7	0x127B9850	0x00080000	Root 2	Ext2
8	0x12839850	0x00096000	Linux swap	Swap
9	0x128CF850	0x00080000	/var	Ext2
10	0x1294F850	0x00090000	MFS application region	MFS
12	0x129DF850	0x00090000	Second MFS application region	MFS
14	0x12A6F850	0x00001000	New MFS Application	MFS
15	0x12A70850	0x7FFF8000	New MFS Media	MFS
16	0x92A68850	0x563A0060	New MFS Media	MFS

I suspect the questionable "extra pair" of partitions (physically placed at the end) is due to TiVo never shipping any (TiVo HD) units with a software version that broke the ~1.26TB barrier, and this image having a shipping version of (TiVo HD) software.


----------



## dlfl

jmbach said:


> @dlfl No it is not 4k aligned.


I understand that not all partitions are 4k aligned but do you agree my large 1.7T partition is 4k aligned based on the base address being a multiple of 8?

And doesn't that mean the bulk of my disk I/O ops will be to that aligned partition, which should minimize splits across sector boundaries?


----------



## jmbach

Yes the 1.7TB partition would be considered 4k aligned. Only if the disk I/O all occurs in that partition. That is the rub. How often the TiVo needs to access the root, kernel, swap, /var, and partitions 10 and 12 during operations is anybody's guess.


----------



## nooneuknow

The way that most commercial (WeaKnees) and ebay pre-imaged drive sellers do things is "aligned and optimized".

"Aligned" handles aligning the partition start boundaries.
"Optimized" makes a sandwich of the physical locations of the partitions, placing them in a manner that lowers the internal workload, with seek operations being the most critical factor, even more so with AF drives.

It takes doing both, in order to maximize drive performance, and lifespan. While the performance improvements may not always be noticeable (in TiVo use), due to the AF/4K/512e Read-Modify-Write operations and seeking related internal thrashing being masked by 64MB of cache (TiVo's stock non-AF drives had the smallest cache WD offered to OEMs), it is well known that less seeking, shorter seek distances, balanced seeking, and less RMW operations, will provide a longer lifespan, than if the same drive was used without alignment and optimization.

Of course, if a drive is just defective to begin with, or develops defects that would ultimately shorten the life of the drive, no amount of anything can stop such defects from ending the drive's life. This inevitably will lead to some naysayers/detractors, who will say that none of any of this matters, because their aligned and optimized drive lasted 6 months, while their as-is drive lasted 6 years...

Given the state of platter drive QC/QA, DOA rates, "infant mortality" rates, and other issues, plaguing the platter drive industry, over what is coming up to nearly a year of bad reviews for seemingly all platter drives (WD seeming to have the blackest eye), it is going to be a long time before anecdotal reports of lifespans can begin to mean anything again.

A factor which makes the "optimization" part hard for many to achieve, is those who want to keep what is on the drive they have, and just copy it to a larger drive, while also adding capacity. The SOP DIY method for this, is to just tack on a huge partition at the end of the existing image. Even if it winds up coincidentally "aligned" at the start boundary, it doesn't change that the drive is now "lopsided" (nor does it align pre-existing non-aligned partitions). That seems to be what some are trying to ask/say here: "My ~1.7TB expansion partition appears to be aligned, so I'm good, right?". We all know it works, which has been "good enough" for most (but, still not a full alignment, nor an optimal physical layout). 

Lately, it seems more are looking to align all the partitions, to achieve an aligned drive. Optimizing/balancing the physical partition locations still seems to not be of much interest. It's hard enough just to make the whole drive aligned, for most.


----------



## _dylan

So after a couple days fighting the Tivo, I got it sorted out.

I tried to recover the original drive since it looked like there was only one error on the drive it, but after a couple tries it didn't work.

Thanks ggieseke & nooneuknow for the help.

One thing to note is that you'll need to let the tivo update to the current software before doing a Clean & Delete Everything. Then it will do the process again.

So now I guess I'll have to wait until the drive fails again.
But next time the issue will be supper easy to fix.


----------



## nooneuknow

jmbach said:


> Yes the 1.7TB partition would be considered 4k aligned. Only if the disk I/O all occurs in that partition. That is the rub. How often the TiVo needs to access the root, kernel, swap, /var, and partitions 10 and 12 during operations is anybody's guess.


Based partially on the use of my ears (and sometimes a mechanic's stethoscope), the disk I/O in some of those partitions is intense, when in the process of indexing and GC. Let's just say that when using a drive with no AAM, and no "intelliseek", you can record all tuners concurrently, and not be able to hear much without a stethoscope, while nothing but your ears are required to tell when indexing and GC occur (and a stethoscope might damage your hearing during those processes).

I would almost wonder if the recent reports that the whole GC not completing issue, is verifiably only affecting larger than stock drives, could be helped by increasing the efficiency of the disk I/O, by reducing internal drive latency, thus reducing resources required to complete GC. Indexing and GC operations, although considered "background processes", are the most I/O intensive, seek intensive, and most susceptible to the issues AF drives brought into the equation, namely "Read-Modify-Write" operations, instead of just "Write" operations, as it would be on a native 512 byte sector drive.

An experiment I propose somebody try (with very good note keeping skills):

1. Find yourself having a TiVo, with an AF drive, that won't complete GC.
2. Clone the drive to a comparable native 512 byte sector drive of same size.
3. Run the clone, and see if GC completes, or completes more often.
4. Make sure nothing else was changed, that may have skewed result validity.
5. Clone in the reverse direction, and repeat #4.
6. Run the original drive, and see if GC completion is negatively affected.
7. Share all the details, notes, and results, with the rest of the class.

It's not a perfect test, and not everybody has a 512 byte sector native drive handy. But, if enough people try this, and the results are conclusive enough for plausibility of non-media partition disk I/O taking a hit on AF drives, enough to degrade Indexing and GC completion, then the importance of physical layout and alignment are made clear. Even if all that can be seen is a significant improvement in Indexing and GC completion times, that's noteworthy.

Since all drives have highest performance on the outer tracks, and follow a downward curve to the lowest performance on the inner tracks, the location of the databases, and other routinely processed non-AV data, with the highest random I/O demands (especially seek-intensive), would ultimately be placed strategically (not necessarily on the outermost tracks). The drives that are used in TiVos, and the ones most use to upgrade them, have good sequential performance. But, it literally falls off a cliff, from whatever sequential performance zone it is in, when it's non-sequential, and the drop starts from whatever point on the curve the drive would be at, if doing sequential operations.

Realistically, all drives should be able to handle the AV data that gets written to the Media partitions, no matter where it is on the platters, or if the media partitions are aligned, due to the large bulk writes. But, I'm not saying alignment has no value there (think fragmentation).

In summation, there's a reason why certain non-media partitions tend to be smack in the middle of the media partition pairs, and why they tend to come in pairs. There was a time when this was critical, then drive technology made it less so (via density and performance), then drive technology (via AF) seems to have made it just as important again, and it would be already clear, just how much, if large onboard drive cache wasn't camouflaging internal AF pitfalls (pulling the wool over our eyes).

If you have already upgraded, and don't have any issues, I don't advise starting over, unless the thought of making the drive work harder than it needs to, keeps you awake at night. If you are planning an upgrade, and want the drive to have the least workload overhead, then this stuff is for you.

Some afterthoughts:

Another potential performance-sapping drive technology that has somewhat invaded most modern drives (suspiciously around the advent of AF), is a replacement of AAM (where you could improve performance and have a louder drive, or have a quiet drive and lower seek performance, or set it somewhere in-between). WD's AAM replacement brand is "Intelliseek". These non-adjustable, and non-disableable seeking algorithms serve two purposes:

1. Quieter seeking (more of a secondary result).
2. Lower wear of the head actuator, and prevention of seek-errors, by preemptively timing seek operations, to make them less snap-action (and make them smoother), and attempt to lower the number of overall seeking operations, by consolidation and queuing of them, possibly even re-ordering them.

What they don't tell you, is that this technology increases latency internally, and is yet another feature that hides its pitfalls by using on-drive cache. I have no proof of this technology being a detriment, outside the drive. But, in theory, an unaligned drive, not optimally physically partitioned, just might overwhelm the processing capabilities for queuing up optimized seeks (drive optimized). I won't write a page worth of explaining how many different ways that could "go sideways".


----------



## oagermann

I believe that I have all of the necessary steps needed to properly install my new WD my books drive but the one question that I can't seem to find an answer to is if the internal and external drives are written to equally during recording will I still be able to install this external device if my internal drive is already full? What happens then? Will all new recordings be forced to copy all on the external only or will the tivo begin overwriting something already on the internal drive automatically?


----------



## nooneuknow

oagermann said:


> I believe that I have all of the necessary steps needed to properly install my new WD my books drive but the one question that I can't seem to find an answer to is if the internal and external drives are written to equally during recording will I still be able to install this external device if my internal drive is already full? What happens then? Will all new recordings be forced to copy all on the external only or will the tivo begin overwriting something already on the internal drive automatically?


First, make sure that your drive is an approved TiVo DVR expander drive. Not all external WD drives are. IIRC, the name should say "DVR expander", and it must be connected via eSATA, not USB.

From the moment you attach an external drive, recordings are split between the two drives, but only the new ones. It's not a RAID method, just a requirement, to prevent people from finding a way to take recordings from TiVo to another, or (attempt to) extract them.

Should the external drive fail, all recordings made after you install it will be lost. The same goes if you simply unplug the drive, and don't reattach it (there may also be a time limit on how long you can leave it unplugged). Recordings made before you attached it will be unaffected.

Should the internal drive fail, you lose everything, on both drives. No exceptions, unless the internal drive failure is just some bad sectors, and you can make a clone to a new internal drive, which must be able to boot and operate.


----------



## oagermann

TY for the reply back. The drive is marked as an approved one for my device. My true concern is that my current internal 500g drive is 98% filled with recordings that I don't want to delete or lose. That was the reason that I purchased the external drive to give me more room to save to. I did this b4 realizing about tivo splitting recordings across both drives. My concern is how tivo will handle all new recordings if this internal is already close to max. Will it just finish filling the last 3% as split then everything else will go directly to external. Or will it try to start deleting from the internal to create the split? Or will it just not record anything further at all until I delete something from internal first?


----------



## nooneuknow

oagermann said:


> TY for the reply back. The drive is marked as an approved one for my device. My true concern is that my current internal 500g drive is 98% filled with recordings that I don't want to delete or lose. That was the reason that I purchased the external drive to give me more room to save to. I did this b4 realizing about tivo splitting recordings across both drives. My concern is how tivo will handle all new recordings if this internal is already close to max. Will it just finish filling the last 3% as split then everything else will go directly to external. Or will it try to start deleting from the internal to create the split? Or will it just not record anything further at all until I delete something from internal first?


That is beyond the scope of my understanding. The spanning of recordings was imposed upon TiVo (or they had to come up with it) to keep content owners happy. I have a feeling that they assume you will delete old/watched content, thus freeing up space to allow the spanning. I doubt having a full internal drive should stop you from using an external, or cause any losses to your internal drive, that you don't initiate. I would suspect if there is any contingency in place for your scenario, it would be that just a few critical parts, taking up little space, would be placed onto the internal's minimal free space (100% full might not really mean 100% full), still rendering the external drive's content inseparable. I don't believe the spanning has to be 50/50, just that it be spanned enough to get that result.


----------



## nooneuknow

WD has some early "Black Friday/Cyber Monday" sales going on, for those on their mailing list. Let me know if these links work, or not, for anybody else. The 1TB WD My Book AV DVR Expander is $69.99, with free shipping & extended 60-day return period, using promo code WDCYBERSALE (through online WD store only), through Dec. 1st.

http://archives.subscribermail.com/msg/da64997352284be6aa9beb6f30de375e.htm

http://store.westerndigital.com/store/wdus/ContentTheme/pbPage.Promotions_US_2nd


----------



## ThreeSoFar

oagermann said:


> TY for the reply back. The drive is marked as an approved one for my device. My true concern is that my current internal 500g drive is 98% filled with recordings that I don't want to delete or lose. That was the reason that I purchased the external drive to give me more room to save to. I did this b4 realizing about tivo splitting recordings across both drives. My concern is how tivo will handle all new recordings if this internal is already close to max. Will it just finish filling the last 3% as split then everything else will go directly to external. Or will it try to start deleting from the internal to create the split? Or will it just not record anything further at all until I delete something from internal first?


You will not lose those already recorded. However, once the external drive is in use, a failure on either drive, or the jack, or the cable, will potentially result in losing ALL of your recordings (ETA: Since the external was in use).

The most common, and my strong recommendation is to NOT use an external drive at all and instead upgrade the internal drive to a larger size.


----------



## nooneuknow

ThreeSoFar said:


> You will not lose those already recorded. However, once the external drive is in use, a failure on either drive, or the jack, or the cable, will potentially result in losing ALL of your recordings (ETA: Since the external was in use).
> 
> The most common, and my strong recommendation is to NOT use an external drive at all and instead upgrade the internal drive to a larger size.


Keyword is "potentially" which is more of a "worst case scenario", if the "perfect storm" of issues comes together, and you are having an unlucky day, than being common for anybody to lose any more than what was recorded AFTER adding the external drive. The usual scare tactics, which I used to propagate myself, but never actually used one, as is the case with many who advise against. This post, from another thread, sums it up, nicely:



nooneuknow said:


> While it seems like everybody posting in the S3/HD/Premiere threads has experienced a failure (or talks like they have) of the external expander drives (the TiVo approved ones, the most), or will rant about points of failure, it sure never stopped weaknees from selling dual-drive insane capacity units, and I don't hear about those failing very often.
> 
> At the same time that external expander drives are still being slammed in S3/HD/S4 threads, people are migrating their several year old ones from their old TiVos, to their Roamios (losing the content, of course).
> 
> It's an interesting phenomenon, just like how people tend to not post about how good something works for them (unless it's aaronwt, as nearly everything he owns seems blessed).
> 
> Yet, it seems like a routine occurrence to see such drives being moved to Roamios, after years of service. Where were the good testimonials to balance out the bad ones, plus "passed-on wisdom", of many who have never used one (but have seen all the dire warnings, and point of failure rants), or just had bad experiences over 5 years ago, swearing them off forever, and never using one again?
> 
> I tried warning some that moving a 3yr old expander drive from a 2 tuner TiVo was going to work the drive much harder with 2 or 4 more tuners, and accelerate demise. But, it fell on deaf ears, time and time again. Those migrating to Roamios, and taking their expanders with, paint a very different side to this ages old topic. If I bring up cable connection issues I've heard of, they swear no such issue has ever afflicted them.
> 
> Too bad it would take too long for Mythbusters to take a crack at this possibly outdated "myth", that may now be just a scary fairy tale, of ages old scary times...
> 
> I'm not looking for a fight, or disagreeing about external drives (or the points of failure), only pointing out a confusing turn of how people are speaking about them (real, long-time, and current, users of them).
> 
> I have doubts as to longevity, on those with years of operation, plus taking on added workload. But, nobody there wants to hear about it, or will counter with how they actually have multiple externals, and never an issue. Only time will tell on the Roamio front. But, some are past a year since moving a used drive over...


----------



## ThreeSoFar

nooneuknow said:


> Keyword is "potentially" which is more of a "worst case scenario", if the "perfect storm" of issues comes together, and you are having an unlucky day, than being common for anybody to lose any more than what was recorded AFTER adding the external drive. The usual scare tactics, which I used to propagate myself, but never actually used one, as is the case with many who advise against. This post, from another thread, sums it up, nicely:


you guessed right, i've never used an external.

I know people who have and lost content this way.

I also know the math--and when your number of failure points goes up, your odds of of losing data increase exponentially. Failure points with an external drive number at least five: two drives, two jacks, one cable. Add in power supply of the external and you get an even half a dozen. Feel free to subtract the internal drive failure point as the two cases have that in common--but the math is on my side.

There's also the separate arguments of more power being expended, more heat in the cabinet if you have one, more noise....


----------



## nooneuknow

ThreeSoFar said:


> you guessed right, i've never used an external.
> 
> I know people who have and lost content this way.
> 
> I also know the math--and when your number of failure points goes up, your odds of of losing data increase exponentially. Failure points with an external drive number at least five: two drives, two jacks, one cable. Add in power supply of the external and you get an even half a dozen. Feel free to subtract the internal drive failure point as the two cases have that in common--but the math is on my side.
> 
> There's also the separate arguments of more power being expended, more heat in the cabinet if you have one, more noise....


The same "points of failure" logic can be turned on it's head, in a different realm of TiVo. Example: People are moving towards one central TiVo and Minis where they used to use additional full TiVos. Single point of failure hard drive (or just about any big issue with the central hub TiVo), takes down everything TiVo, in one fell swoop, until it gets fixed.

Beyond saying what I say in this post, I'm really not looking to lock horns with anybody on this. I missed your ETA, even though it was there when I replied (I think, since it got quoted)...

All the threads, except Roamio ones, are excessively lopsided against any use of such expander drives at all. That's why I was shocked at the contrast, and how many people came out defending externals in the Roamio threads (which they put years of use on, before asking how to properly move them).


----------



## ThreeSoFar

nooneuknow said:


> The same "points of failure" logic can be turned on it's head, in a different realm of TiVo. Example: People are moving towards one central TiVo and Minis where they used to use additional full TiVos. Single point of failure hard drive (or just about any big issue with the central hub TiVo), takes down everything TiVo, in one fell swoop, until it gets fixed.
> 
> Beyond saying what I say in this post, I'm really not looking to lock horns with anybody on this. I missed your ETA, even though it was there when I replied (I think, since it got quoted)...
> 
> All the threads, except Roamio ones, are excessively lopsided against any use of such expander drives at all. That's why I was shocked at the contrast, and how many people came out defending externals in the Roamio threads (which they put years of use on, before asking how to properly move them).


Has roamio even been out a year?

And they're lopsided that way for good reason. The roamio threads are just new, and probably people figured out the negatives by now and aren't making those same mistakes again thanks to those "lopsided" threads (with good, accurate advice).


----------



## ThAbtO

oagermann said:


> TY for the reply back. The drive is marked as an approved one for my device. My true concern is that my current internal 500g drive is 98% filled with recordings that I don't want to delete or lose. That was the reason that I purchased the external drive to give me more room to save to. I did this b4 realizing about tivo splitting recordings across both drives. My concern is how tivo will handle all new recordings if this internal is already close to max. Will it just finish filling the last 3% as split then everything else will go directly to external. Or will it try to start deleting from the internal to create the split? Or will it just not record anything further at all until I delete something from internal first?


I have managed to use just the 500GB on the basic Roamio, downloading to PC/NAS, deleting, and removing commercials. I keep the recordings on a 8 TB NAS or PC for when the time comes for the need to watch them and it has not come yet. I have been keeping the Roamio drive about 1/2 full.

Using PyTiVo, I can send it back for watching at a later date.


----------



## nooneuknow

ThreeSoFar said:


> Has roamio even been out a year?
> 
> And they're lopsided that way for good reason. The roamio threads are just new, and probably people figured out the negatives by now and aren't making those same mistakes again thanks to those "lopsided" threads (with good, accurate advice).


I guess you read my post(s) as thoroughly as I read your post (missing the ETA part that was not there until I got around to making a reply and posting it, missing that it had been added, and failing to notice it got quoted, or just missing it, period).



nooneuknow said:


> All the threads, except Roamio ones, are excessively lopsided against any use of such expander drives at all. That's why I was shocked at the contrast, and how many people came out defending externals in the Roamio threads *(which they put years of use on, before asking how to properly move them).*


To get 2-5 years out of a WD My Book AV DVR Expander drive, and be happy enough with it enough to defend it to the death (against all the same arguments/allegations/implications), *as those then moving the same drive to their Roamios do*, should count for something. Some have surpassed one year of having said drives now on their Roamio.

Yes, the Roamio has been widely available, through all the channels, well past the one-year mark, and closer to 1-1/2 years of being available.

If I actually listened to all the stories of somebody who once had a bad experience with a product, or knew somebody who did, or knew somebody who knew somebody who did, or only heard about it 6 times removed, I'd own zero TiVos, and probably be living in a cave, or in one of the no-tech, off the grid, communities (and would starve, if I let every story of food poisoning stop me from eating food).

All hard drives fail, period. There can be bad designs, which get corrected, bad batches, or just bad reputations. It seems the people repeating others' bad experiences is 90% of the last one, as when people have had an actual 1st-person experience with something, they tend to say so, rather than rattling off all the bad, and not sharing how it impacted them (or use wording that implies/gives it away as such).

I had some bad experiences with Seagate hard drives. I avoid them as much as I can. Yet, I don't tell everybody else to avoid Seagate. I may share that my loyalty lies with WD. But, if I bring up Seagate in a negative light, I put it in the proper context, as 1st-person, years-old, personal experience, with the fact that WD has not been so good for me lately (seems to be more of a Newegg handling problem, than WD).

Heaven forbid that I share that the nearly decade old thoughts/opinions on the matter, strongly seem to be a matter of the phenomenon of most only reporting the bad experiences (no matter how long ago it was experienced), which then just keeps getting passed along, like every person advising against, has been personally burned by. I admitted my own role in bad mouthing something I never even used, which I had been doing for nearly as long as when I finally joined TCF, so I could post, rather than only read posts. It was all based on nearly decade-old posts (and those repeating them) from those stating they personally had major problems with them.

Drive tech, and related tech, design changes at a rapid pace. What you buy now, is not the same thing you bought (or heard about) way back then, unless you buy used, or (excessively) new-old-stock.

Perhaps a better way to put some perspective into matters, is to point out how many *interneral* drive failure reports are seen around the forum, where Premiere drives fail after 2yrs, or less.

Not everybody that joins TCF is willing to open their TiVo, no matter how old it is. Why scare those folks away from being able like their TiVo more, when they make one of two choices:
1. Live with a stock drive they are losing things from, to make space.
2. Add plug-and-play storage.

No matter how easy we try to make upgrading the internal (the ideal path), some will stick to these two options.

I personally know somebody (who lives in another state, and called me) who lost everything on their external WD My Book drive, which was connected to their PC. It was well over 3 years old, and they admitted it got knocked on its side. Even though it had "all their pictures" on it, with no backup, it wasn't even worth $60 for them to them to buy a luddite-friendly recovery program to use on it. They bought another one, and moved on, regardless of my suggesting they could avoid that with an internal drive upgrade/addition. Even if they moved to a larger single drive, and put everything on there, hard drives fail, without requiring a shock event. If they added another drive, but made a dynamic disk to make the two appear and act as one drive, that's worse than a TiVo. A single drive failure would cause a loss of everything (without a backup).

I've lost all my recorded TiVo shows, over S3HD/S4 issues, when there was absolutely nothing wrong with my internal drives, on several TiVos, several times. It made me mad. But, I still bought Roamios when they came out (and have lost the contents of one already). I'm not using that to post all over TCF, not to buy TiVos, or upgrade to a Roamio.

Let the people who bother to read a bit decide. It is not necessary to bury anything good about an external expander, in more bad, essentially repeating what has been posted already, just because I dared to post a different way to look at it.

Slam this post all you like. I'm learning when to just walk away, and not waste my time on the opinion Nazis (not that I'm calling you one). I don't own anything older than Roamios anymore, but did own 4 TiVo HDs and 6 Premieres. I stay subbed to old threads, even adding new subs to old model threads, as I have extensive experience with most other aspects of them, and like to try and help (rather than debate).


----------



## oagermann

Thank you everyone for the replies and suggestions. Just like the discussion here regarding 2 sides of the good vs evil of externals I've tried looking into going the internal route first but as mentioned above got really spooked away due to many posts. Some say it's a piece of cake by just buying a preloaded software drive online but the price of those didn't seem to make sense. Then you have the middle of the road erstwhile. Just buy the correct drive along with additional software. Install the software and away you go. BUT BEWARE that you get the correct drive and software OR RISK a catastrophic failure. Be cautious and you'll be fine. Then you get the nay sayers. DO NOT upgrade your internal UNLESS you have EXTENSIVE tivo hardware and software working knowledge. Failure to properly do everything correctly WILL RENDER your tivo into a paperweight that will never function again! This is due to tivos strick policy on how their units were made to function they say. So in a nutshell after allot of research I was left with: 1) Go expensive and go preready. 2) Go midrange and possibly not get the correct hardware / software and either waste money or crash the unit. 3) Go lowest end and really rush havoc if something went wrong or tivo didn't agree with what you were trying. Or 4) Just go external. Know it works. Know tivo won't have an issue with it. But risk losing things due to a hardware failure. I assure you I'd have loved to go 2 or 3 tb internal if it was possible. But I got scared off of not potentially having access to the correct stuff and subsequently losing everything including the tivo unit itself.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

oagermann said:


> Thank you everyone ....


That's a good summary of the issues, for sure. I'm a computer guy, so the upgrades were never an issue for me since way back to 2002. The latest software makes it easier than it's ever been--it detects which is the TiVo drive and suggests that as the source drive, and the same for the destination.

One other expensive option you left off the list though--just buy a Roamio. The upgrade for those is trivial--plop in any compatible drive right out of the box and it installs over the Internet. Of course, you get an empty TiVo as a result--so I recommend doing this as soon as you get your TiVo. Make sure it boots and all on the original drive, then swap it out.


----------



## nooneuknow

oagermann said:


> Thank you everyone for the replies and suggestions. <snip>


If you send a PM to member Unitron, and ask for his help, he can cut through the noise and walk you through things, if you are up to it. Just let him know the parameters of what you want. Better yet, direct him to this thread.

If you have already reviewed his many step-by-steps on the matter, and they are still too complex, you are probably better-off just considering getting a newer TiVo, as already suggested, in order to not lose what you have, and want to keep, while reaping many added benefits of what a new TiVo has to offer, besides just more space.


----------



## Teeps

ThreeSoFar said:


> One other expensive option you left off the list though--just buy a Roamio.
> 
> The upgrade for those is trivial--plop in any compatible drive right out of the box and it installs over the Internet. Of course, you get an empty TiVo as a result--so I recommend doing this as soon as you get your TiVo.


In red is interesting.
I guess I need to find a thread on upgrading the hard drive in a base model Roamio.


----------



## nooneuknow

Teeps said:


> In red is interesting.
> I guess I need to find a thread on upgrading the hard drive in a base model Roamio.


That thread is here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=507695

I wanted to correct that misleading part in red (not posted by me), but didn't want to throw gas on the small fire I had already started.

The hard drive is prepped by the non-removable NAND flash, acting as a read-only SSD (except when being flashed with a software update), which itself is updated via internet, after prepping the internal platter drive. Once it has the newest software, a change of hard drives doesn't even involve the internet, until you repeat Guided Setup (which is required).

Whatever portions of the TiVo software that must be updated more frequently than TiVo rolls updates, gets placed on the platter drive, as do the software update downloads, for validation of CRC, before committing it to flash.

But, yes, you can still change the drive, before ever even plugging the power in. The part about the factory drive shipping blank is correct.

End Note: This whole post is about the TiVo Roamio platform, and not any other TiVo.


----------



## unitron

nooneuknow said:


> If you send a PM to member Unitron, and ask for his help, he can cut through the noise and walk you through things, if you are up to it. Just let him know the parameters of what you want. Better yet, direct him to this thread.
> 
> If you have already reviewed his many step-by-steps on the matter, and they are still too complex, you are probably better-off just considering getting a newer TiVo, as already suggested, in order to not lose what you have, and want to keep, while reaping many added benefits of what a new TiVo has to offer, besides just more space.


Recent attempts to PM me may have failed (long story), and emailing me through the link provided by this website won't go to the account which I check regularly (story gets longer).

But if someone wants to send an email to

unitron

and they send it to his account on the coastalnet.com domain using their own email client, it should get through and get my attention.


----------



## Teeps

nooneuknow said:


> That thread is here:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=507695
> But, yes, you can still change the drive, before ever even plugging the power in.
> The part about the factory drive shipping blank is correct.
> 
> End Note: This whole post is about the TiVo Roamio platform, and not any other TiVo.


Roger that nooneuknow.


----------



## valley_nomad

I just replaced my 7-year old hard drive in my TivoHD with a new 1TB Hitachi (HDS721010CLA332). However, I found that the drive is too loud. The playback of recorded video also has some freezing frames from time to time. Are there some ways to fix the noise and freeze issues? If not, what are the currently available quiet and reliable replacement drives for TivoHD?


----------



## ThAbtO

valley_nomad said:


> I just replaced my 7-year old hard drive in my TivoHD with a new 1TB Hitachi (HDS721010CLA332). However, I found that the drive is too loud. The playback of recorded video also has some freezing frames from time to time. Are there some ways to fix the noise and freeze issues? If not, what are the currently available quiet and reliable replacement drives for TivoHD?


I don't believe that drive was made for 24/7 DVR use and would generate more heat and use more power. Most recommendation is WD EURS or EURX GP-AV (green less power/heat and Audio/video.)

You can use up to 2TB with the 11.0k/m Tivo software.
WD 10EURS/X
WD 20EURS/X
WD 10EFRX (red works also because they are for NAS 24/7 use)
WD 20EFRX (red)


----------



## HerronScott

I've been happy with these:

WD 10EURS/X
WD 20EURS/X

The 2.0TB WD20EURX is $94.05 now with Amazon Prime. I just installed 2 of them in my 2 S3 OLED TiVo's (and have a WD20EURS in an HD).

Scott


----------



## nooneuknow

NEWS: WD renames "AV-GP" line of drives to "AV".

There are two WD Product SpecSheet PDFs now.

One PDF (old) is for "AV-GP", which only goes to 3TB.

The second (new) one is for "AV", which is the new name for the product refresh cycle. They dropped the "-GP". Includes 4TB model.
http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/library/SpecSheet/ENG/2879-800015.pdf

I guess "AV" sounds sportier that "AV-GP". This is further proof that they are refreshing the line. I doubt it will bring anything good to the discussions here, likely more confusion, than anything.

*From the new PDF:*
WD AV (formally WD AV-GP) SATA hard drives store more
hi-def audio and video than ever before  up to 4 TB. They
are optimized with SilkStream
technology to capture data
from up to 16 simultaneous HD video streams. With 24x7
operation, low temperature, and best-in-class reliability,
WD AV hard drives are ideal for DVR/PVR and IPTV
applications. 3-year limited warranty


----------



## valley_nomad

Thanks for the info on HD. However, I decided to continue using my current Hitachi HD by enabling AAM (Automatic Acoustic Management). But before doing it, I had to roll back the firmware to version 39C which is the last version with AAM support. Now the HD is very quiet with AAM level set to 128. I believe AAM may also reduce the power consumption and heat. The freezing frame issue seems to be improved as well.


----------



## sender_name

Just an Inquiry here...I've been searching the thread and need some clarity on steps

I have a Series 3 that shipped with the stock 250GB HD. I removed it at 2 months (12/2007) and used winmfs (via windows) to copy it to a 1TB and expand it.

That 1TB is now failing. (It may be due to years with the bad capacitors that I have since replaced).

I bought a WD20EURS on amazon for $74 and tried to use Winmfs (in windows) to copy the 1TB to the new 2TB. I monitored the I/O as it wrote to the drive and after about 4 hours it would get stuck in the same spot. I tried 3x and it kept getting stuck. 

I made an Ubuntu Rescue Remix 12.04 boot disk. (I am a robot that can copy and execute commands but I don't always know what they do  )
1. first I typed: Sudo Bash
2. then I typed: sudo lshw -C disk -short
-this showed me which drive was the 1TB and which the 2Tb
3. Now and I am using ddrescue to now copy the 1TB to the 2TB. I (command was: ddrescue -f -n /dev/sdb /dev/sdc tivo-rescue.log)

This seems to be working so far. Data is transferring and I am over 900,000 MB with 0 errors still.

Once this finishes it's my belief that (in case there are any unseen errors) I should
1. Place the 2TB drive in the tivo, power up and hold pause and run Kickstart 57 to force a repair of any disk errors
2. Then once that is confirmed to work remove the drive and run Winmfs in windows and use MFSadd to expand the drive (as I now believe that with 11.x.x the series 3 can handle the 2TB drive) 
3. Now the drive returns to the Tivo for maximum awesomeness?

IS there anything wrong here? Or is this an acceptable way to do this? I didn't see the ddrescue option in the windows version of WINmfs and since I already had the Ubuntu Rescue Remix 12.04 disk burned I went with that. 

Thanks all for any input!


----------



## worachj

sender_name said:


> 2. Then once that is confirmed to work remove the drive and run Winmfs in windows and use MFSadd to expand the drive (as I now believe that with 11.x.x the series 3 can handle the 2TB drive)


I may be wrong, but it used to be that you could only expand an original image once. Since you expanded your original image to 1TB, I don't believe you can cloned the 1TB image and expanded it to 2TB. It won't work.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## lpwcomp

worachj said:


> I may be wrong, but it used to be that you could only expand an original image once. Since you expanded your original image to 1TB, I don't believe you can cloned the 1TB image and expanded it to 2TB. It won't work.
> 
> Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


Glad to. Yes, it used to be a problem but while I can't say for sure for an original Series 3, I had no problem re-expanding my 652160 from 1TB to 2TB.


----------



## worachj

lpwcomp said:


> Glad to. Yes, it used to be a problem but while I can't say for sure for an original Series 3, I had no problem re-expanding my 652160 from 1TB to 2TB.


Thanks! I hope it works for him.


----------



## sender_name

worachj said:


> Thanks! I hope it works for him.


It looks like I have 288 hours now (I had like 159 before) so it seems to be about 1.85TB if I do the math...IDK if some of it didn't expand or not. I am still finding issues with Fox Sports 1 on fios because while recording it appears to be recording but really is hung up on a gray screen like 20 min in...and then when you play it live to that spot it just stops and you have to stop the recording and re-record and it jumps 2+ hours to present time with everything in the middle not recorded. I didn't do the Kickstart 57, I'll try that after the Bruins game finishes. I would go insane if NESN started locking up. It's only been Fox sports one that I know of so far.

You know what...I just checked and the formatted size of a 2TB drive is like 1.8TB so it's probably correct but not "mega expanded" or whatever that last bit you can do with a series 3 is..


----------



## lpwcomp

sender_name said:


> You know what...I just checked and the formatted size of a 2TB drive is like 1.8TB so it's probably correct but not "mega expanded" or whatever that last bit you can do with a series 3 is..


Supersize, but if you had 159 hours on a 1TB, it was already supersized and it doesn't need to be done again. It's unfortunate that you didn't get a map of the drive. Also, did you use the most recent version of WinMFS?


----------



## unitron

sender_name said:


> Just an Inquiry here...I've been searching the thread and need some clarity on steps
> 
> I have a Series 3 that shipped with the stock 250GB HD. I removed it at 2 months (12/2007) and used winmfs (via windows) to copy it to a 1TB and expand it.
> 
> That 1TB is now failing. (It may be due to years with the bad capacitors that I have since replaced).
> 
> I bought a WD20EURS on amazon for $74 and tried to use Winmfs (in windows) to copy the 1TB to the new 2TB. I monitored the I/O as it wrote to the drive and after about 4 hours it would get stuck in the same spot. I tried 3x and it kept getting stuck.
> 
> I made an Ubuntu Rescue Remix 12.04 boot disk. (I am a robot that can copy and execute commands but I don't always know what they do  )
> 1. first I typed: Sudo Bash
> 2. then I typed: sudo lshw -C disk -short
> -this showed me which drive was the 1TB and which the 2Tb
> 3. Now and I am using ddrescue to now copy the 1TB to the 2TB. I (command was: ddrescue -f -n /dev/sdb /dev/sdc tivo-rescue.log)
> 
> This seems to be working so far. Data is transferring and I am over 900,000 MB with 0 errors still.
> 
> Once this finishes it's my belief that (in case there are any unseen errors) I should
> 1. Place the 2TB drive in the tivo, power up and hold pause and run Kickstart 57 to force a repair of any disk errors
> 2. Then once that is confirmed to work remove the drive and run Winmfs in windows and use MFSadd to expand the drive (as I now believe that with 11.x.x the series 3 can handle the 2TB drive)
> 3. Now the drive returns to the Tivo for maximum awesomeness?
> 
> IS there anything wrong here? Or is this an acceptable way to do this? I didn't see the ddrescue option in the windows version of WINmfs and since I already had the Ubuntu Rescue Remix 12.04 disk burned I went with that.
> 
> Thanks all for any input!


As of v11.0h the original S3 and the HD and HD XL can handle 2TB drives.

With both WinMFS and the MFS Live cd v1.4, it's best to run

mfsadd

separately from any other operation (like a restore or an mfscopy). I don't know why, but that's just the way it is.

WinMFS will, if a third MFS pair has already been added in a previous expansion, further expand that 3rd MFS Media partition (assuming there's extra room on the end of the drive--which is probably called an Apple Free partition) instead of adding another MFS pair (which would put you one partition over the limit of 16).

I don't know if MFS Live can do that or not--never had enough spare TiVos and drives to do the experiment.

If running

mfscopy

or

restore

on the command line after booting from the MFS Live cd, skip the

-x

and

-z

options, and just go with

-pi


----------



## sender_name

Well I still have my original retail drive..So i could wipe the 2TB and then copy the Retail 250gb and then expand...but I have like 100 hours of shows on this one so it's going to be quite some time before I catch up enough to do it


----------



## ThAbtO

A 2TB drive should yield about 315 HD Hrs, after expanding and supersize.


----------



## unitron

sender_name said:


> Well I still have my original retail drive..So i could wipe the 2TB and then copy the Retail 250gb and then expand...but I have like 100 hours of shows on this one so it's going to be quite some time before I catch up enough to do it


If that 1TB is failing, ice it up and "Xerox" it right now, or be prepared to lose all the shows on it in an instant.


----------



## sender_name

unitron said:


> If that 1TB is failing, ice it up and "Xerox" it right now, or be prepared to lose all the shows on it in an instant.


Oh, I already salvaged all the shows via ddrescue and Ubuntu Rescue Remix 12.04. It only had 1 error. That's the drive that was made from the original 250gb to 1TB and now 1TB to 2TB


----------



## tivopalos

HerronScott said:


> I've been happy with these:
> 
> WD 10EURS/X
> WD 20EURS/X
> 
> The 2.0TB WD20EURX is $94.05 now with Amazon Prime. I just installed 2 of them in my 2 S3 OLED TiVo's (and have a WD20EURS in an HD).
> 
> Scott


I have a S3 OLED TiVo with a 1TB drive that's pushing 7 years old that I will be replacing with the 2.0TB WD20EURX that I just purchased from Amazon.
Should I bother running Wdidle3 on this when I receive it, or is it good to go as is?

Thanks for all your help!


----------



## ThAbtO

tivopalos said:


> I have a S3 OLED TiVo with a 1TB drive that's pushing 7 years old that I will be replacing with the 2.0TB WD20EURX that I just purchased from Amazon.
> Should I bother running Wdidle3 on this when I receive it, or is it good to go as is?
> 
> Thanks for all your help!


I doubt you would need to use WDidle3 on it, but it doesn't hurt to check it with the /R option, but it will only work when the drive is connected directly to the motherboard on SATA not USB.


----------



## HerronScott

tivopalos said:


> I have a S3 OLED TiVo with a 1TB drive that's pushing 7 years old that I will be replacing with the 2.0TB WD20EURX that I just purchased from Amazon.
> Should I bother running Wdidle3 on this when I receive it, or is it good to go as is?
> 
> Thanks for all your help!


You shouldn't have to as it should already be disabled (and was on mine). I did run it just to check as ThAbtO indicated.

Scott


----------



## Riprock69

I've read through the original post which was last updated in 2010, and I've looked through a bunch more that has helped me get an idea of what I have to do... but I can't find any post that's taken the all the info and combined it into an updated how to. Is there one in the 300+ page thread? If not, is there one anywhere else that anyone knows of?

I'm thinking of getting the WD EZRX 1TB. I'm computer literate, used to build my own comps, familiar with hard drive partitioning, and ready to make this happen. I've already opened up my TiVo to get the fan info to order a new one... it occasionally makes noise. The power supply looks good, no puffiness to the caps. With a little more research I could probably make it happen, but it's so much easier using a complete and updated DIY post.

Thanks!


----------



## HerronScott

It's pretty straightforward using WinMFS. Check out this post in this thread.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10182363#post10182363

Scott


----------



## ThAbtO

Riprock69 said:


> I've read through the original post which was last updated in 2010, and I've looked through a bunch more that has helped me get an idea of what I have to do... but I can't find any post that's taken the all the info and combined it into an updated how to. Is there one in the 300+ page thread? If not, is there one anywhere else that anyone knows of?
> 
> I'm thinking of getting the WD EZRX 1TB. I'm computer literate, used to build my own comps, familiar with hard drive partitioning, and ready to make this happen. I've already opened up my TiVo to get the fan info to order a new one... it occasionally makes noise. The power supply looks good, no puffiness to the caps. With a little more research I could probably make it happen, but it's so much easier using a complete and updated DIY post.
> 
> Thanks!


With a WD EZRX drive you have to check the Head parking function (Intellipark) which must be disabled or extended, or else it may or may not boot or warm boot.

With the current Tivo software (11.0m, or at least 11.0k), it can handle up to 2 TB. If you use Windows, you can not even use Drive Manager. The image can be put on a new blank drive without formatting as its not a FAT or NTFS partitioning. RPM speeds >5900 is not recommended as it may require more power and produce more heat.


----------



## tivopalos

S3 OLED TiVo with a 1TB drive that I replaced with the 2.0TB WD20EURX. After reading through these threads..

I went through WINmfs, MFScopy, took 24 hours, at the end I went to MFSadd and got an error message:8 MFSadd already done.

Tried MFSSupersize, it also said already supersized.

Put everything back together, powered on the Tivo and everything is there, but it says I only have 157 hours of HD. 

Any ideas on what went wrong?


----------



## lpwcomp

tivopalos said:


> Any ideas on what went wrong?


Did you use the latest version of WinMFS?


----------



## ThAbtO

tivopalos said:


> S3 OLED TiVo with a 1TB drive that I replaced with the 2.0TB WD20EURX. After reading through these threads..
> 
> I went through WINmfs, MFScopy, took 24 hours, at the end I went to MFSadd and got an error message:8 MFSadd already done.
> 
> Tried MFSSupersize, it also said already supersized.
> 
> Put everything back together, powered on the Tivo and everything is there, but it says I only have 157 hours of HD.
> 
> Any ideas on what went wrong?


Most likely, you can only perform MFSAdd once. If you have the original image, make sure its updated to the latest 11.0k or 11.0m before you can fully use the full 2.0TB.


----------



## unitron

tivopalos said:


> S3 OLED TiVo with a 1TB drive that I replaced with the 2.0TB WD20EURX. After reading through these threads..
> 
> I went through WINmfs, MFScopy, took 24 hours, at the end I went to MFSadd and got an error message:8 MFSadd already done.
> 
> Tried MFSSupersize, it also said already supersized.
> 
> Put everything back together, powered on the Tivo and everything is there, but it says I only have 157 hours of HD.
> 
> Any ideas on what went wrong?


Since the 648 comes from the factory with a 250GB drive, that 1TB probably already had the 3rd MFS pair (partitions 14 and 15) added, so those would have been copied over, and that could be where it's getting the idea that

mfsadd

has already been done.

Also, Supersize is a sort of setting, so if that had already been done to the 1TB, that setting would have carried over as well.

Hook up both drives to the PC and fire up WinMFS again, then select the 1TB drive and run

mfsinfo

and copy the output to a text file you can copy and paste here, then select the 2TB, run

mfsinfo

again, and copy the output and paste it here as well.

And then, since I just thought of this, that you might have tried to run

mfsadd

previously while the 1TB drive was still the one "selected", instead of switching to the 2TB being the selected drive first, so it wouldn't have been able to further expand the expanded 1TB drive.

If

mfsadd

works on the 2TB this time around, then, making sure it's the selected drive, run

mfsinfo

on it again, and post the output of that here as well.


----------



## tivopalos

Thanks Unitron, I will try that tomorrow. 

Used Beta Build 9.3f. 

I never got to perform MFSadd. When I tried, I got the error message.

Tivo software is 11.0m.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

tivopalos said:


> S3 OLED TiVo with a 1TB drive that I replaced with the 2.0TB WD20EURX. After reading through these threads..
> 
> I went through WINmfs, MFScopy, took 24 hours, at the end I went to MFSadd and got an error message:8 MFSadd already done.
> 
> Tried MFSSupersize, it also said already supersized.
> 
> Put everything back together, powered on the Tivo and everything is there, but it says I only have 157 hours of HD.
> 
> Any ideas on what went wrong?


Well, the first thing that comes to mind--you're using almost ten year old technology.

There's really good deals on lifetimed Roamio's right now for existing customers. 400 for basic (which completely crushes your unit) $500 for plus and SIX total tuners.


----------



## unitron

tivopalos said:


> Thanks Unitron, I will try that tomorrow.
> 
> Used Beta Build 9.3f.
> 
> I never got to perform MFSadd. When I tried, I got the error message.
> 
> Tivo software is 11.0m.


I strongly suspect that what happened is you had to go to File, Select, and select the source drive, the 1TB, before copying, and then forgot or didn't know to go back and this time select the target drive, the 2TB, before clicking on

File, mfsadd


----------



## tivopalos

All set, I now have 318 hours of HD.

I couldn't get a text file because I am using an old PC that was sitting in my basement that has few programs and no internet connection. I could have put it on a flash drive, but I was sure this would work so i didn't bother.

MSFinfo said I had partition #16 Apple_Free Extra with something like 895.5K.

Selected MFSadd which ran this time. MFSinfo showed that #16 Apple_Free Extra partition was gone.

Then I tried MFSsupersize, but it still said that I had already done it. Not a big deal.

Thanks so much for your help.


----------



## unitron

tivopalos said:


> All set, I now have 318 hours of HD.
> 
> I couldn't get a text file because I am using an old PC that was sitting in my basement that has few programs and no internet connection. I could have put it on a flash drive, but I was sure this would work so i didn't bother.
> 
> MSFinfo said I had partition #16 Apple_Free Extra with something like 895.5K.
> 
> Selected MFSadd which ran this time. MFSinfo showed that #16 Apple_Free Extra partition was gone.
> 
> Then I tried MFSsupersize, but it still said that I had already done it. Not a big deal.
> 
> Thanks so much for your help.


So I was probably correct when I finally figured out that you hadn't switched the "selected drive" from the 1TB to the 2TB before trying to run

mfsadd

and that it was reporting what it got when it tried to run it on the 1TB, which was already "supersized", and already as expanded as possible.

I should have seen it sooner.


----------



## Riprock69

Scott and ThAbtO... going to try to figure out how to copy the current drive to my comp today. Only a few things recorded that I wanna transfer over. Here I go...


----------



## HerronScott

tivopalos said:


> Then I tried MFSsupersize, but it still said that I had already done it. Not a big deal.
> 
> Thanks so much for your help.


That would be correct if you had supersized the original 1TB drive. You don't need to supersize a copy of a supersized drive as it's already been done.

Scott


----------



## backyard

Just used WINmfs to upgrade a noisy old 1T Hitachi (that had replaced the original 160) to a WD20EURX in my S3 HD. Copied, expanded, and supersized (I guess it didn't need that) and it now shows 318 hours total.

The TiVo now has a pronounced delay or hesitation when answering commands from the controller (with new batteries) especially going from menu to menu. It feels similar to a pc that is short on memory or the processor is just bogged down. I hard re-booted once but it didn't help.

Has anyone seen this?

Any ideas?


----------



## Teeps

backyard said:


> Just used WINmfs to upgrade a noisy old 1T Hitachi (that had replaced the original 160) to a WD20EURX in my S3 HD. Copied, expanded, and supersized (I guess it didn't need that) and it now shows 318 hours total.
> 
> The TiVo now has a pronounced delay or hesitation when answering commands from the controller (with new batteries) especially going from menu to menu. It feels similar to a pc that is short on memory or the processor is just bogged down. I hard re-booted once but it didn't help.
> 
> Has anyone seen this?
> 
> Any ideas?


Yes. Shortly after installing a 2TB internal drive. I can believe, too, that TiVo hardware is taxed to the max and that is the cause of the delay.

Replaced the capacitors in the power supply a few months back. Hoping that would improve/fix this problem(?), but it did not.

Is your TiVo connected to a tuning adapter?
If so; keep watch on the GC line is the system info screen. The *GC date should change almost daily.

*GC = garbage collection.


----------



## backyard

Thanks Teeps.
No tuning adapter. I'll watch the GC.


----------



## Riprock69

Riprock69 said:


> Scott and ThAbtO... going to try to figure out how to copy the current drive to my comp today. Only a few things recorded that I wanna transfer over. Here I go...


Well, due to my shortsightedness I had to order some PATA/SATA converters from Amazon. Got 'em yesterday and was able to disable the idle on the WD10EZRX last night using wdidle3 on the UBCD Linux boot CD. Got the MSFTools Linux Boot CD burned and am now just waiting for a time when I can have the Tivo... probably this weekend. Sigh.


----------



## HerronScott

backyard said:


> Just used WINmfs to upgrade a noisy old 1T Hitachi (that had replaced the original 160) to a WD20EURX in my S3 HD. Copied, expanded, and supersized (I guess it didn't need that) and it now shows 318 hours total.
> 
> The TiVo now has a pronounced delay or hesitation when answering commands from the controller (with new batteries) especially going from menu to menu. It feels similar to a pc that is short on memory or the processor is just bogged down. I hard re-booted once but it didn't help.
> 
> Has anyone seen this?
> 
> Any ideas?


Yes, I definitely saw it on the 1st HD that we upgraded as well. It was most pronounced when viewing the details of a show in a list of shows and using page up/down to scroll through them. Before the upgrade, the TiVo would be able to do it almost as fast as you could hit the button but afterward there was a very large delay before it would display all the information.

It was my son's TiVo that we bought when he went off to college so I didn't do anything with it as he and his room mate weren't heavy users. When I went to upgrade my 2 S3 OLED's to new 2TB drives, I decided to try and do everything possible to optimize the drive so I use the TivoTool shell scripts someone so kindly created and some expert help provided here to 4K align the drive (see thread below).

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=519991&highlight=align

I did not see the same issue on the 2 S3 OLED's so I went back and 4K aligned the upgraded drive in the HD while I had a spare 2TB drive and it fixed the major slowness that I was seeing.

I posted about it here in this thread too to see if anyone else had seen this but no one else really spoke up to say they were seeing the same thing.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10271961#post10271961

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10273487#post10273487

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10279271#post10279271

I'd love to see if someone else could verify these results as well with a before and after.

Scott


----------



## Teeps

backyard said:


> Thanks Teeps.
> No tuning adapter. I'll watch the GC.


GC should not be a problem if you are not using a tuning adapter.
But, it doesn't hurt to check the GC date from time to time.


----------



## backyard

Thanks for the information.

It's all very interesting but I'm afraid 4k alignment is somewhat beyond my expertise. If it was as easy as using the other tools I'd give it a try. 

The delay actually seems to be slightly better after a couple days use but I'm probably just getting used to it.

Thanks again.


----------



## HerronScott

backyard said:


> Thanks for the information.
> 
> It's all very interesting but I'm afraid 4k alignment is somewhat beyond my expertise. If it was as easy as using the other tools I'd give it a try.
> 
> The delay actually seems to be slightly better after a couple days use but I'm probably just getting used to it.
> 
> Thanks again.


Would you mind performing the following test with your upgraded 2TB drive?

- Search for Big Bang Theory
- View upcoming episodes
- View the description for the first episode shown
- Use Page/Chan down to quickly cycle through upcoming show descriptions

I can go through about 3 episodes per second (15 per 5 seconds) or maybe a touch faster and only occasionally get the error sound but on our HD before aligning the partitions there was no way we could do it any where near that fast. It was enough that my son even commented on it when I told him how to look for upcoming episodes that he had missed.

I'm really interested in hearing the results on another S3 OLED/HD upgraded to 2TB without 4K alignment. See how many episodes you can page through in 5 seconds.

Scott


----------



## unitron

HerronScott said:


> Would you mind performing the following test with your upgraded 2TB drive?
> 
> - Search for Big Bang Theory
> - View upcoming episodes
> - View the description for the first episode shown
> - Use Page/Chan down to quickly cycle through upcoming show descriptions
> 
> I can go through about 3 episodes per second (15 per 5 seconds) or maybe a touch faster and only occasionally get the error sound but on our HD before aligning the partitions there was no way we could do it any where near that fast. It was enough that my son even commented on it when I told him how to look for upcoming episodes that he had missed.
> 
> I'm really interested in hearing the results on another S3 OLED/HD upgraded to 2TB without 4K alignment. See how many episodes you can page through in 5 seconds.
> 
> Scott


Are you talking about the deal where you get the page for a particular episode on the screen and then arrow down and select "View Upcoming Episodes" and arrow down the list and have to arrow right at each entry to be taken to a separate page and then have to arrow left out of it back to the list so you can arrow down to the next one?

By the time I waited for it to catch up to my thumb I managed about 2 in 5 seconds.

Of course that was without spending any time actually reading those individual pages.

WD20EURS in a 648, copied with WinMFS, swap partition size set at 2GB, and expanded later via

mfsadd

as separate process after checking drive via

mfsinfo

to make sure everything was okay.


----------



## HerronScott

unitron said:


> Are you talking about the deal where you get the page for a particular episode on the screen and then arrow down and select "View Upcoming Episodes" and arrow down the list and have to arrow right at each entry to be taken to a separate page and then have to arrow left out of it back to the list so you can arrow down to the next one?


Unitron,

Not quite, but you are close. While you are viewing the detailed description for the show (which is where you have stated to arrow right at each entry), use Page/Chan down to cycle to the detailed description of the next episode which you should be able to repeat rapidly to cycle through the list of upcoming shows. There's no need to arrow left back to the list and then arrow down to the next episode and arrow right (or select). I think the Roamio's and maybe Premiere's lost the ability to do this if I've read correctly (unfortunately).

I use this occasionally to search quickly through upcoming episodes searching for episodes based on the year or the episode numbers so I noticed the slow response on his HD immediately. In general it was just sluggish in the menus before I aligned it.

Scott


----------



## lpwcomp

Don't have an S3 OLED but when I tried it on my THD (upgraded to 1TB in 2011 and to 2TB last year), it was at least 14 in 5 seconds. Got it to 19 once. Definitely no noticeable lag.

Both times the upgrade was done with WinMFS with no special effort to align on 4k boundaries. WD Green drives. It's possible that I used an AV drive the second time, I don't remember.


----------



## HerronScott

lpwcomp said:


> Don't have an S3 OLED but when I tried it on my THD (upgraded to 1TB in 2011 and to 2TB last year), it was at least 14 in 5 seconds. Got it to 19 once. Definitely no noticeable lag.
> 
> Both times the upgrade was done with WinMFS with no special effort to align on 4k boundaries. WD Green drives. It's possible that I used an AV drive the second time, I don't remember.


Thanks James! That would tend to point to it being something with the HD that I upgraded to 2TB (used JMFS as at the time it wasn't working with WinMFS). It is odd that going through the 4k alignment fixed the issue (back to the same drive using another drive as an intermediate host).

Scott


----------



## HerronScott

lpwcomp said:


> Don't have an S3 OLED but when I tried it on my THD (upgraded to 1TB in 2011 and to 2TB last year), it was at least 14 in 5 seconds. Got it to 19 once. Definitely no noticeable lag.
> 
> Both times the upgrade was done with WinMFS with no special effort to align on 4k boundaries. WD Green drives. It's possible that I used an AV drive the second time, I don't remember.


James (and Unitron),

Sorry should have gotten you to confirm whether this was an Advanced Format drive or not since the 4K alignment would only apply to those drives.

Scott


----------



## Riprock69

Thanks again to you all for blazing the trail on this. Other than spending an hour and a half trying to get my desktop to recognize the CD with both drives in it (sigh), I was able to hook them up using converters (desktop is PATA/IDE), used the ultimate boot CD to run wdidle3 on the new drive, used the Linux boot CD in text mode, used the command generator from the MFS website (had to use "hda" and "hdc"), ran the command and it failed after 47 blocks (because I think I didn't have hdc's connector pushed in all the way), ran it again and 13 hours later it finished (last night while asleep). Got up this morning, said it was successful, put the new drive in, started it up, and it actually booted up faster than the old drive. Recorded progs still there and all.

Again, thank you all so much! Happy wife now!


----------



## backyard

Maybe I'm doing this wrong but using the Page/Channel down I page through five shows at a time and the TiVo seems to buffer the presses such that I end up going through 62 shows total.


----------



## HerronScott

Are you viewing the details on the first show in the list and not at the list itself? It sounds like you are just paging down the list.

You need to actually be viewing the detailed description for the first episode in the list (highlight show and then select or right arrow).

Scott


----------



## lpwcomp

backyard said:


> Maybe I'm doing this wrong but using the Page/Channel down I page through five shows at a time and the TiVo seems to buffer the presses such that I end up going through 62 shows total.


You're missing a step. After bringing up the list, you need to select one to bring up the initial info screen for that episode. *Then* use the channel up/down button to go to the next/previous episode.

You're just paging through the list.


----------



## lpwcomp

HerronScott said:


> You need to actually be viewing the detailed description for the first episode in the list (highlight show and then select or right arrow).
> 
> Scott


Not entirely accurate. The actual _*Details*_ screen is one step too far.


----------



## HerronScott

lpwcomp said:


> Not entirely accurate. The actual _*Details*_ screen is one step too far.


I assume you mean the page you get when you hit Info? I don't think that I indicated anywhere to go that far (Highlight show and then select or right arrow). Is there another way to pull up that page for a show?

Hopefully to be more clear, I'm talking about pulling up the list of upcoming episodes as in the first picture below, select the first show in the list and viewing the description as in the second picture below and then hitting Page/Channel down multiple times quickly to cycle through each show.

This is where I had a large delay when we first upgraded an HD to an advanced format 2TB drive without 4k alignment and which was "fixed" with 4k alignment.





Scott


----------



## backyard

First I needed to 4k align my brain so I could follow the instructions (sure.. I'm going to be able to 4k align my drive!!! LOL). 

There are a number of ways to view up-coming episodes and the screen shots above showed the path that you followed. Even though there is a clear display hesitation or delay in many menu navigating operations I could view at least 3-4 records per second.


----------



## wishiwas

Does anyone have a working link for the latest JMFS?


----------



## unitron

wishiwas said:


> Does anyone have a working link for the latest JMFS?


I'm pretty sure the latest one is still 104 from November of 2010.

There's a download link (and, if you're so inclined, a donate button) in the first post in this thread

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968

but since that's the instructions for the Premiere and this is the S3 forum, you may wish to refer to the 'how to use jmfs on an HD' thread as well, as the procedure is a little different

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179&highlight=jmfs+HD

However, since this is the S3 forum, I should point out that if you actually are planning to put a larger drive in an original Series 3 or a Series 3 HD or HD XL that jmfs is no longer necessary, you can use WinMFS for up to a 2TB drive, as long as the original drive you copy, or the image from which you restore, is at least version 11.0h (most recent version is 11.0m, and that got sent out a year or more ago)

If you do use WinMFS to put a bigger than original drive in any of the S3 (or for that matter S1 or S2) platform models, after the copy or image restoration is complete it will tell you you have extra space and ask it if you want to expand. Tell it no. Just take my word for it. Tell it no.

Then make sure the new drive is the one selected and check it with

mfsinfo

and if everything looks okay, including a large Apple Free partition on the end of the drive, do the expansion as a separate process with

mfsadd

If it says something about the size of one of the new partitions that will be created, go ahead and tell it you do want one bigger than 1TB (or 1.2TB or whatever it is).

Again, just take my word for it that it's better to do it this way.


----------



## wishiwas

Thanks for the link. My problem was the web filter at my company was killing the link. All set now. Hard drive cloned with no issues.


----------



## Princess9483

Okay, I am going to ask a question that has been answered I know a thousand times but I need an up-to-date answer. I have a Series 3 OLED. The hard drive went bad a while ago, long story. I need to know what is the best and/or cheapest way to replace the hard drive and imprint the Tivo software on it. I would like a 1tb hd. I currently do not have a computer with an esata or sata port so I need some suggestions for that too. Thanks!


----------



## jmbach

Short answer USB dock, WinMFS, image from TCF, and a WD EURX drive (up to 2TB in size) . You might be okay with any WD Green drive but you may need to disable WDIDLE3 timer and for that you will need SATA or eSata.


----------



## ThAbtO

Princess9483 said:


> Okay, I am going to ask a question that has been answered I know a thousand times but I need an up-to-date answer. I have a Series 3 OLED. The hard drive went bad a while ago, long story. I need to know what is the best and/or cheapest way to replace the hard drive and imprint the Tivo software on it. I would like a 1tb hd. I currently do not have a computer with an esata or sata port so I need some suggestions for that too. Thanks!


TCD648250B image here

Here is where the image should be available. If you use windows, the .TBK file would be easier.


----------



## unitron

Princess9483 said:


> Okay, I am going to ask a question that has been answered I know a thousand times but I need an up-to-date answer. I have a Series 3 OLED. The hard drive went bad a while ago, long story. I need to know what is the best and/or cheapest way to replace the hard drive and imprint the Tivo software on it. I would like a 1tb hd. I currently do not have a computer with an esata or sata port so I need some suggestions for that too. Thanks!


I spent several hours trying to post this late last night/early this morning but site problems kept eating it.

I thought I'd already posted my more recent 648 images, but anyway, the one to use with the MFS Live cd is here:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49887720/648_11mGS.bak

and the one to use with WinMFS is here:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49887720/648_11mGS.tbk

Do you not have a PC at all, or just an old PATA/IDE one, or one you can't open up, or what?


----------



## ThAbtO

unitron said:


> I spent several hours trying to post this late last night/early this morning but site problems kept eating it.
> 
> I thought I'd already posted my more recent 648 images, but anyway, the one to use with the MFS Live cd is here:
> 
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49887720/648_11mGS.bak
> 
> and the one to use with WinMFS is here:
> 
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49887720/648_11mGS.tbk
> 
> Do you not have a PC at all, or just an old PATA/IDE one, or one you can't open up, or what?


Catalog updated.


----------



## dougdingle

Princess9483 said:


> Okay, I am going to ask a question that has been answered I know a thousand times but I need an up-to-date answer. I have a Series 3 OLED. The hard drive went bad a while ago, long story. I need to know what is the best and/or cheapest way to replace the hard drive and imprint the Tivo software on it. I would like a 1tb hd. I currently do not have a computer with an esata or sata port so I need some suggestions for that too. Thanks!


There are (or were) people selling drives pre-imaged and ready to go into a Series 3 OLED on ebay. That might be your easiest route.

Also Weaknees (ad is in upper right of this page) has them. Again, just install and go.

And for the extra few dollars, consider going with a 2 TB drive for more room.


----------



## sandyjasmine

I want to get a 2TB internal drive for my Series 3. Is there anything special I need to know about doing it with a Mac? Is this Western Digital drive one you think would be the best? WD20EURS/EURX.

Sorry if this was already mentioned here; I did a search and could not find the answer. Thanks for your help 
Jas


----------



## unitron

sandyjasmine said:


> I want to get a 2TB internal drive for my Series 3. Is there anything special I need to know about doing it with a Mac? Is this Western Digital drive one you think would be the best? WD20EURS/EURX.
> 
> Sorry if this was already mentioned here; I did a search and could not find the answer. Thanks for your help
> Jas


You'd need one of those Intel CPU based Macs that can run Windows however it is that they do it (dual boot?, virtual machine? hope there's a Mac user reading this that can advise), because WinMFS needs to run on Windows XP SP3 or newer, like Vista or 7, and you need to run it as admin.

The EURS is an old enough model that any still available and advertised as new are suspect and probably don't really have a WD warranty left on them, so get an EURX for about $90 from newegg or Amazon, but be sure you're buying directly from them and not one of their "partners".

Do you have the original S3 (the TCD648250B) or the later S3 model, the HD (or the HD XL, which was basically the same thing with a bigger drive)?

Are you planning to copy the original drive to the new drive?


----------



## sandyjasmine

Thanks Unitron 
I probably won't copy the drive over. TCD652160 is what I have. So EURX is a good drive to get? If you have any other suggestions, that would be great. 
Jas


----------



## unitron

sandyjasmine said:


> Thanks Unitron
> I probably won't copy the drive over. TCD652160 is what I have. So EURX is a good drive to get? If you have any other suggestions, that would be great.
> Jas


If your current drive is still working it makes more sense to copy it than to use someone else's truncated image, although making an image from your current drive is a good idea as well, just for backup safety.

Whether booting from and using the MFS Live cd v1.4 (you download the .iso file and burn it as an image to a cd-r) or the WinMFS program running on Windows, either copying the old drive to the new one or restoring a truncated 652 backup to the new one, do not, repeat, do not do the expansion as part of that process.

That means not using the

-x

option on the command line with the cd, or, if using WinMFS, telling it NO when it offers to expand.

For some reason it can sometimes go wrong and screw things up.

Instead, once you have the TiVo software written to the new drive via copy or restore, use

mfsinfo

to check the new drive and make sure everything looks okay.

Then do the expansion as a separate process with

mfsadd

I don't know if the MFS Live cd will let you expand into all of a 2TB drive or not (although I hope to run that experiment in a couple of days), but WinMFS will, although it'll point out that you're about to exceed what used to be the 1.2TB per partition limit (not a problem ever since version 11.0h of the S3 software and yours should have been updated to 11.0m last year sometime) and you have to tell it to do so.

But before you put that new drive into service you need to run the drive manufacturer's own diagnostic software long test on it.

The WD test is available on the Ultimate Boot CD ( a free copy of which you can burn as an image for yourself, and if your Mac is Intel based it should boot in it).

And while you have that TiVo's lid off it's a good time to eyeball the power supply capacitors closely for bulging or leaking.

Unless I tell you otherwise, do not have the TiVo power cord plugged in while the lid is off.

ALWAYS KNOW WHERE BOTH ENDS OF THE TIVO POWER CORD ARE AT ALL TIMES!


----------



## sandyjasmine

unitron said:


> .....But before you put that new drive into service you need to run the drive manufacturer's own diagnostic software long test on it.... And while you have that TiVo's lid off it's a good time to eyeball the power supply capacitors closely for bulging or leaking. Unless I tell you otherwise, do not have the TiVo power cord plugged in while the lid is off. ALWAYS KNOW WHERE BOTH ENDS OF THE TIVO POWER CORD ARE AT ALL TIMES!


Good advice. LOL on the plug. I'm thinking I'll just get a drive already formatted... make my life easier.


----------



## rlundstedt

Hello all

In the first post on this thread, the drive capacities mentioned for the S3 were said to be 1TB. I know that was in 2009 and a lot has changed since then, but I know the inside of my TiVo S3 hasn't changed (I've never opened it). I have a dying drive in my S3 so I went to DVRUpgrade (as suggested in the first post) and they offer 1, 2, 4 and 6 TB drives for the S3. I've seen mention is my searches about the TiVo having a 32 bit system so it won't recognize anything larger than a 2TB - a 64 bit system is needed for that, I guess.

My question is will these larger drives really work in the S3?

Will the S3 be able to recognize the entire size of a larger than 2TB drive without using some third party work around (I need plug-n-play)?

I noticed that DVRUpgrade has a choice of model number TCD648250 and a TCD648250B - what's the difference and does it matter when ordering a replacement drive?

And - I am thinking I have a dying drive because I keep getting a failure notification for one of my cable cards (slot 2 specifically). It pops up on the screen letting me know I need to contact my cable company and inform them I have code 161-4 (I think, might be -2). I've swapped card positions and had the cable company re flash them and the problem stays with slot 2. Often, if we lose power, the TiVo will get stuck in the endless start-up loop unless I eject the cable cards. It will then boot up and when it asks me to install the cards, I insert card 1 - no problem. I insert card 2 and it causes a reboot. On that reboot, sometimes it will work and sometimes it will go into the loop again and I start all over. So, is my assessment of a dying drive somewhat on track?

Thanks for your help - greatly appreciated.


----------



## jmbach

The max size hard drive in an S3 is 2TB. If you try to buy a drive larger than that for your S3, it will tell you that the drive size is incompatible with your device and not allow you to add it. 

Consider cleaning the contacts of the card slots. You can sometimes accomplish this by popping the card in and out several times.

If that does not work, replace the drive. If that doesn't work, well you may need a new unit.


----------



## mattack

unitron said:


> You'd need one of those Intel CPU based Macs that can run Windows however it is that they do it (dual boot?, virtual machine? hope there's a Mac user reading this that can advise), because WinMFS needs to run on Windows XP SP3 or newer, like Vista or 7, and you need to run it as admin.


This is all wrong..

You do not need to do it on Windows.. You can use a Linux boot CD, I did it long in the past. i.e. there is/was a widely used Tivo upgrade CD with all of the tools and such on it, on a bootable CD.

If this is an OLED S3, then you do have to do the copy the "hard way" with the command line copies and such.. If possible, unhook your Mac hard drives before booting into the Linux CD, then you'll prevent accidentally using the wrong drive.

If it's a Tivo HD, you can use the jmfs CD (which is a friendly wrapper around the CLI tools).


----------



## telemark

JMFS can be made to work on a Mac natively, but I'm guessing the pre-made Linux boot CDs would be slightly easier.

Windows can run on Intel Macs via virtualization if need be. I haven't seen a non-Intel Mac in operation in many years.


----------



## unitron

mattack said:


> This is all wrong..
> 
> You do not need to do it on Windows.. You can use a Linux boot CD, I did it long in the past. i.e. there is/was a widely used Tivo upgrade CD with all of the tools and such on it, on a bootable CD.
> 
> If this is an OLED S3, then you do have to do the copy the "hard way" with the command line copies and such.. If possible, unhook your Mac hard drives before booting into the Linux CD, then you'll prevent accidentally using the wrong drive.
> 
> If it's a Tivo HD, you can use the jmfs CD (which is a friendly wrapper around the CLI tools).


I didn't get the feeling the person to whom I was responding was an ideal candidate for doing via the command line.

So I suggested Windows and WinMFS, thinking that might put them in more familiar territory.

Actually the jmfs cd, via

ddrescue

(which is what it uses, and which is available on the jmfs cd once you skip the script and go to the command line)

can copy any S2 or S3 drive to another of equal or greater size.

(the byte-swapped nature of the S1s wouldn't matter, but the "drive locking" would probably screw things up)

It's just the expansion part where you run up against its lack of a "legacy mode".


----------



## dlfl

Help! I just upgraded my TiVo HD (652160) to a WD20EURS drive and I'm getting the following loop after powering it up:

1. Welcome! Powering up ..... (as usual)
2. Almost There. Just a few minutes more ..... (as usual).
3. Green screen message that TiVo has encountered a serious problem and is trying to fix it. It may take 3 hours. Do not unplug, etc. ....
4. Back to step 1 and just keeps looping (for 45 mins as of this writing).

Background info:
I checked power supply for bulging caps and measured voltages: 12.36V, 4.93V and 3.32V. This was done with all loads connected.

The upgrade drive was first given the extended WD diagnostic test and passed. It was populated using WinMFS with a truncated backup from my previous drive, which was a WD10EADS. The backup was done months ago when the old drive was exhibiting no problems and the WD20EURS was then shelved. The reason I'm now doing the upgrade is because the TiVo locked up once and spontaneously rebooted once within the last 24 hours (which it hadn't done for years before that). The old drive has almost 6 years on it so failure doesn't seem unlikely.

So is there really any point in letting this loop go on for three hours? Is the most likely assumption that my WD20EURS upgrade has failed? TIA for your advice.


----------



## dougdingle

dlfl said:


> Help! I just upgraded my TiVo HD (652160) to a WD20EURS drive and I'm getting the following loop after powering it up:
> 
> 1. Welcome! Powering up ..... (as usual)
> 2. Almost There. Just a few minutes more ..... (as usual).
> 3. Green screen message that TiVo has encountered a serious problem and is trying to fix it. It may take 3 hours. Do not unplug, etc. ....
> 4. Back to step 1 and just keeps looping (for 45 mins as of this writing).
> 
> Background info:
> I checked power supply for bulging caps and measured voltages: 12.36V, 4.93V and 3.32V. This was done with all loads connected.
> 
> The upgrade drive was first given the extended WD diagnostic test and passed. It was populated using WinMFS with a truncated backup from my previous drive, which was a WD10EADS. The backup was done months ago when the old drive was exhibiting no problems and the WD20EURS was then shelved. The reason I'm now doing the upgrade is because the TiVo locked up once and spontaneously rebooted once within the last 24 hours (which it hadn't done for years before that). The old drive has almost 6 years on it so failure doesn't seem unlikely.
> 
> So is there really any point in letting this loop go on for three hours? Is the most likely assumption that my WD20EURS upgrade has failed? TIA for your advice.


Sounds like you need to download and run the WDIDLE utility, and change the default setting from 8 to 300.

http://wiki.nas4free.org/doku.php?id=faq:0148


----------



## jmbach

Recheck the drive for errors. Retry the restore. If it still does it, try an image from one of the forum links.


----------



## dlfl

dougdingle said:


> Sounds like you need to download and run the WDIDLE utility, and change the default setting from 8 to 300.
> 
> http://wiki.nas4free.org/doku.php?id=faq:0148


Thanks. However, my understanding was the WD20EURS drives do not have the intellipark issue. I suspect the linked article is a little out of date. Please let me know if I'm wrong about this.


----------



## dougdingle

dlfl said:


> Thanks. However, my understanding was the WD20EURS drives do not have the intellipark issue. I suspect the linked article is a little out of date. Please let me know if I'm wrong about this.


I don't know the current state of that model drive. What I do remember, though, is that setting that parameter to 300 used to cure the exact issue you're seeing now.

It's also possible that there's a corrupt image on your drive, or something else has failed. As jmbach suggested, alternate things to try would be (backing up then) restoring the image again, or using another one from those available.


----------



## dlfl

dlfl said:


> Help! I just upgraded my TiVo HD (652160) to a WD20EURS drive and I'm getting the following loop after powering it up:
> 
> 1. Welcome! Powering up ..... (as usual)
> 2. Almost There. Just a few minutes more ..... (as usual).
> 3. Green screen message that TiVo has encountered a serious problem and is trying to fix it. It may take 3 hours. Do not unplug, etc. ....
> 4. Back to step 1 and just keeps looping (for 45 mins as of this writing).
> 
> Background info:
> I checked power supply for bulging caps and measured voltages: 12.36V, 4.93V and 3.32V. This was done with all loads connected.
> 
> The upgrade drive was first given the extended WD diagnostic test and passed. It was populated using WinMFS with a truncated backup from my previous drive, which was a WD10EADS. The backup was done months ago when the old drive was exhibiting no problems and the WD20EURS was then shelved. The reason I'm now doing the upgrade is because the TiVo locked up once and spontaneously rebooted once within the last 24 hours (which it hadn't done for years before that). The old drive has almost 6 years on it so failure doesn't seem unlikely.
> 
> So is there really any point in letting this loop go on for three hours? Is the most likely assumption that my WD20EURS upgrade has failed? TIA for your advice.





jmbach said:


> Recheck the drive for errors. Retry the restore. If it still does it, try an image from one of the forum links.


I ran the WD diagnostics quick check. The drive had just passed the extended check before putting it on the shelf.

I got the 652m.tbk image from the link in unitron's post here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10193644#post10193644
With that image installed via WinMFS it booted up OK and I'm well into guided setup with things appearing to be running OK.

EDIT: Uggh! Just realized (after hours of pairing CableCARD and guided setup) that I apparently have to do Clear & Delete -- my TSN was all zeros. I expect this will mean repeating all that stuff. Oh Well! At least I don't have the "green screen of death" now.


----------



## unitron

dlfl said:


> I ran the WD diagnostics quick check. The drive had just passed the extended check before putting it on the shelf.
> 
> I got the 652m.tbk image from the link in unitron's post here:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10193644#post10193644
> With that image installed via WinMFS it booted up OK and I'm well into guided setup with things appearing to be running OK.
> 
> EDIT: Uggh! Just realized (after hours of pairing CableCARD and guided setup) that I apparently have to do Clear & Delete -- my TSN was all zeros. I expect this will mean repeating all that stuff. Oh Well! At least I don't have the "green screen of death" now.


When you first restored your own backup to the 2TB drive, did it do that and then ask if you wanted to expand and did you say Yes?


----------



## dlfl

unitron said:


> When you first restored your own backup to the 2TB drive, did it do that and then ask if you wanted to expand and did you say Yes?


 Did what do what?

In both cases (my own backup and the one linked in your post) I said no and then came back to mfsAdd for the expansion (in WinMFS), if that is what you're asking. However the first restore was done many months ago, so there is the memory issue.

I've completed C&DE, pairing and guided setup -- but (of course) lost all my season passes. I thought there was a way to restore my season passes from tivo.com to the new drive, after C&DE. No? (I don't see it.)


----------



## a68oliver

dlfl said:


> I've completed C&DE, pairing and guided setup -- but (of course) lost all my season passes. I thought there was a way to restore my season passes from tivo.com to the new drive, after C&DE. No? (I don't see it.)


I recently copied season passes between a defective box and a replacement/refurb and I had to have both boxes activated at the same time in order to do this. The process appeared to have a limit to the number of season passes it could copy (I had a lot) and it didn't copy all of them.

However, I am not sure there is a way to RESTORE your season passes.

You can get to it by going to My Account - My Shows and in the left hand menu you will find Season Pass Manager. If no one knows how to do it here, I would call and ask.


----------



## dougdingle

dlfl said:


> I've completed C&DE, pairing and guided setup -- but (of course) lost all my season passes. I thought there was a way to restore my season passes from tivo.com to the new drive, after C&DE. No? (I don't see it.)


The first time the newly C&DE device connects to mom, mom sees no season passes on the box, and deletes the old ones from the web site as part of its sync operation. Yes, I know...

The only consistently working way to save/restore season passes is to use KMTTG to save them from the old box, and then restore them to the new one. The file containing the season passes lives on your local machine and so the TiVo site can't mess with them.


----------



## dlfl

Well the WD10EADS drive I replaced (with a WD20EURS upgrade) has passed the WD extended diagnostics test! I was hoping it wouldn't since that would explain the lockup and spontaneous reboot. It was in use for almost 6 years so I kind of expected it would be the problem.

I read somewhere that even the extended test can't detect all problems -- is that true?

Although my power supply shows no bulging caps and the voltages are good, I understand it could still have problems. So I guess my strategy is to run with the upgraded HDD and see if more lockups or reboots occur. At that point I will either re-cap or replace the power supply.

BTW, I use component outputs, so HDMI issues cannot be the problem.

Any other suggestions?


----------



## jmbach

I use HDD Guardian to examine the drive while it is hooked to the computer. I find it useful as it tells me more information about errors and pending errors that the manufacturer diagnostic might look over because it did not cross a particular threshold. 

I had a similar problem with my S3 a while back. Somehow a write to the MFS header became corrupted and caused the reboot issue. I was unable to fix it and lost my shows but another TCF member had the same issue but was able to correct the MFS header and saved his drive and shows.


----------



## dlfl

jmbach said:


> I use HDD Guardian to examine the drive while it is hooked to the computer. I find it useful as it tells me more information about errors and pending errors that the manufacturer diagnostic might look over because it did not cross a particular threshold.
> 
> I had a similar problem with my S3 a while back. Somehow a write to the MFS header became corrupted and caused the reboot issue. I was unable to fix it and lost my shows but another TCF member had the same issue but was able to correct the MFS header and saved his drive and shows.


I use a USB-SATA adapter to connect my TiVo HDD to my PC. It's only USB2 and for example takes 9+ hours to run the WD Diagnostics extended test on a 1 TB drive. Do you know if HDD Guardian will run OK with that slow connection?

Also I'm wondering which tests are likely to detect problems that the WD Diagnostics didn't?


----------



## jmbach

HDD Guardian does not do any testing, it just reads SMART details. It tells you more when the drive is connected via SATA or eSata.

It is more that the WD diagnostic does not report all issues until the issue reaches a certain threshold.


----------



## camaro11388

This may be a silly question and forgive me if it is, but I've been going crazy looking for the MFS Live v 1.4 ISO download link. It seems like mfslive's website is down. If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks

Update: I found the backup I need but the .tbk format for winMFS. Any thoughts on where I could download the program? Thanks!


----------



## unitron

camaro11388 said:


> This may be a silly question and forgive me if it is, but I've been going crazy looking for the MFS Live v 1.4 ISO download link. It seems like mfslive's website is down. If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks
> 
> Update: I found the backup I need but the .tbk format for winMFS. Any thoughts on where I could download the program? Thanks!


Do you need winmfs.exe?

Or a .tbk format backup for a particular TiVo model?


----------



## ThreeSoFar

camaro11388 said:


> This may be a silly question and forgive me if it is, but I've been going crazy looking for the MFS Live v 1.4 ISO download link. It seems like mfslive's website is down. If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks
> 
> Update: I found the backup I need but the .tbk format for winMFS. Any thoughts on where I could download the program? Thanks!


I have an MFSLIVE 1.4 dating back to 2009.

Should work for you.

Got a way I can send to you?


----------



## ThAbtO

camaro11388 said:


> This may be a silly question and forgive me if it is, but I've been going crazy looking for the MFS Live v 1.4 ISO download link. It seems like mfslive's website is down. If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks
> 
> Update: I found the backup I need but the .tbk format for winMFS. Any thoughts on where I could download the program? Thanks!





unitron said:


> Do you need winmfs.exe?
> 
> Or a .tbk format backup for a particular TiVo model?





ThreeSoFar said:


> I have an MFSLIVE 1.4 dating back to 2009.
> 
> Should work for you.
> 
> Got a way I can send to you?


I got him the image and WinMFS in the "Don't PM" thread. A little late.


----------



## camaro11388

Hah yes, thank you both but as ThAbtO mentioned, he helped me out already.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## unitron

camaro11388 said:


> Hah yes, thank you both but as ThAbtO mentioned, he helped me out already.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ask him where he got that 658 image.


----------



## ThAbtO

unitron said:


> Ask him where he got that 658 image.


From the "Don't PM me" thread. I had downloaded them all, in case the links went bad.


----------



## Teeps

unitron said:


> Ask him where he got that 658 image.





ThAbtO said:


> From the "Don't PM me" thread. I had downloaded them all, in case the links went bad.


Is this a problem Unitron? (just wondering)


----------



## unitron

Teeps said:


> Is this a problem Unitron? (just wondering)





> A little late.


Just teasin' back a little, as I suspect I know where you got that 658 image in the first place.

(unless you're the person from whom I got it in the first place a few years ago-- )


----------



## chalooch101

how do you install 2 hard drives in a tivo premiere?


----------



## dougdingle

chalooch101 said:


> how do you install 2 hard drives in a tivo premiere?


One at a time. 

Sorry, couldn't resist.


----------



## lpwcomp

chalooch101 said:


> how do you install 2 hard drives in a tivo premiere?


I give up. How *do* you install 2 hard drive in a tivo premiere?

I sure hope the punchline is worth waiting for.


----------



## dougdingle

chalooch101 said:


> how do you install 2 hard drives in a tivo premiere?


From the TiVo site Premiere FAQ:

"You can connect an external hard drive via eSATA. The 1 terabyte My Book AV DVR Expander from Western Digital can be purchased on tivo.com for $199.99."

Or for less elsewhere. Just be aware that unless you've made mods and patches to your internal drive (inadvisable), it supports just two brand name external drives - the one mentioned above, and the 500GB version of the one mentioned above. No other external hard drives will be recognized.

Keep in mind that once you install an external drive, your point of failure for spinning objects just doubled. If you disconnect the external drive, or it fails, the internal drive will only have the recordings that were made befor you installed the external drive.


----------



## unitron

Don't know about a punch line, but the expectation that I'm paying 200 bucks for a 1TB hard drive is hilarious.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

chalooch101 said:


> how do you install 2 hard drives in a tivo premiere?


I'll answer this one seriously:

Why would you bother? Put one giant drive in it.

Done. You don't even need to format or copy anything over to it.


----------



## ThAbtO

ThreeSoFar said:


> I'll answer this one seriously:
> 
> Why would you bother? Put one giant drive in it.
> 
> Done. You don't even need to format or copy anything over to it.


This is true for Roamios but not for earlier models.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

ThAbtO said:


> This is true for Roamios but not for earlier models.


True. Didn't read his post close enough.

2 drives with an eSATA are not worth it tho. More things to fail, and any failure leads to all your shows gone.

With the Bolt out now, Roamio's may be easy to get used, and they weren't crazy expensive to begin with. Maybe go that route.


----------



## andrewperrin

Greetings. I have a Tivo HD (652) whose hard drive is dead. I have a new, tested, and working SATA drive I'd like to use to replace the TiVo's drive. And I've got what I believe to be a good image for the 652 (652_gset.bak).

My home computer runs linux, so I downloaded mfstool and plugged the new drive in using a USB-to-SATA dongle (my machine doesn't have eSATA or an extra internal SATA interface). I did this:



Code:


[email protected]:/home/aperrin/Downloads# ./mfstools-2.0/mfstool restore -r 4 -s 127 -bzpi ./652_gset.bak /dev/sdb
Starting restore
Uncompressed backup size: 1390 megabytes
Restoring 1390 of 1390 megabytes (100.00%) (61.64% compression)    
Cleaning up restore.  Please wait a moment.
Segmentation fault

I then tried to get info on the drive:


Code:


[email protected]:/home/aperrin/Downloads# ./mfstools-2.0/mfstool info /dev/sdb
Segmentation fault

The same thing has happened with two different drives (one 2TB, one 500GB) and with two different USB-to-SATA dongles. Any thoughts on what to do?

Thanks for any advice.


----------



## ThAbtO

andrewperrin said:


> Greetings. I have a Tivo HD (652) whose hard drive is dead. I have a new, tested, and working SATA drive I'd like to use to replace the TiVo's drive. And I've got what I believe to be a good image for the 652 (652_gset.bak).
> 
> My home computer runs linux, so I downloaded mfstool and plugged the new drive in using a USB-to-SATA dongle (my machine doesn't have eSATA or an extra internal SATA interface). I did this:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> [email protected]:/home/aperrin/Downloads# ./mfstools-2.0/mfstool restore -r 4 -s 127 -bzpi ./652_gset.bak /dev/sdb
> Starting restore
> Uncompressed backup size: 1390 megabytes
> Restoring 1390 of 1390 megabytes (100.00%) (61.64% compression)
> Cleaning up restore.  Please wait a moment.
> Segmentation fault
> 
> I then tried to get info on the drive:
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> [email protected]:/home/aperrin/Downloads# ./mfstools-2.0/mfstool info /dev/sdb
> Segmentation fault
> 
> The same thing has happened with two different drives (one 2TB, one 500GB) and with two different USB-to-SATA dongles. Any thoughts on what to do?
> 
> Thanks for any advice.


I have a 652 HD image, but only for WinMFS for Windows. No commands to type or even mis-type to write to a wrong drive.


----------



## unitron

andrewperrin said:


> Greetings. I have a Tivo HD (652) whose hard drive is dead. I have a new, tested, and working SATA drive I'd like to use to replace the TiVo's drive. And I've got what I believe to be a good image for the 652 (652_gset.bak).
> 
> My home computer runs linux, so I downloaded mfstool and plugged the new drive in using a USB-to-SATA dongle (my machine doesn't have eSATA or an extra internal SATA interface). I did this:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> [email protected]:/home/aperrin/Downloads# ./mfstools-2.0/mfstool restore -r 4 -s 127 -bzpi ./652_gset.bak /dev/sdb
> Starting restore
> Uncompressed backup size: 1390 megabytes
> Restoring 1390 of 1390 megabytes (100.00%) (61.64% compression)
> Cleaning up restore.  Please wait a moment.
> Segmentation fault
> 
> I then tried to get info on the drive:
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> [email protected]:/home/aperrin/Downloads# ./mfstools-2.0/mfstool info /dev/sdb
> Segmentation fault
> 
> The same thing has happened with two different drives (one 2TB, one 500GB) and with two different USB-to-SATA dongles. Any thoughts on what to do?
> 
> Thanks for any advice.


As long as you have to use someone else's image, you might as well use one made from the latest version (11.0m) of the TiVo OS

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49887720/652m.bak

I can't remember if that one starts in Guided Setup or not, the way my older one did, or if you get an error 51 or Green Screen or something when the TiVo Service Number mismatch is discovered and has to be dealt with.

I know what the zpi is for (and you can skip the z), but what is the purpose of the "b"? Ordinarily I would expect an "x" in that string.

You might want to use the MFS Live cd instead. Let me know if you need it.

And with either it or WinMFS, I've found it increases one's chances of success if expansion is not done as part of restoration.

Do the restore, then check the drive with

pdisk -l

and

mfsinfo

(the WinMFS version of mfsinfo incorporates pdisk)

and if it looks okay (a larger target drive will have an Apple Free partition on the end which is really the not yet partitioned extra space)

then run

mfsadd

as a separate process to do the expansion.

For anyone who can run WinMFS, here's the .tbk version

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49887720/652m.tbk


----------



## tvmaster2

can anyone direct me to where directions on using JMFS, MFS Live Cd and WinMFS can be found? The original website seems to be out of business, and I can't find the directions anywhere. I've got all the discs, just don't have the knowledge 
thanks


----------



## unitron

tvmaster2 said:


> can anyone direct me to where directions on using JMFS, MFS Live Cd and WinMFS can be found? The original website seems to be out of business, and I can't find the directions anywhere. I've got all the discs, just don't have the knowledge
> thanks


jmfs isn't usable on anything older than the later Series 3 models, the TCD652160 and TCD658000.

Although it can be used as a Live Linux boot cd that has

ddrescue

on it.


----------



## andrewperrin

Thanks for all the advice. Unfortunately I get the same thing still:



Code:


[email protected]:/home/aperrin/Downloads# ./mfstools-2.0/mfstool restore -pi ./652m.bak /dev/sdb
Starting restore
Uncompressed backup size: 1390 megabytes
Restoring 1390 of 1390 megabytes (100.00%) (58.84% compression)    
Cleaning up restore.  Please wait a moment.
Segmentation fault

I can't boot the MFSLive because I don't have a CD-ROM, but I'm going to work on booting it into a VMWare window. Any other advice welcome!


----------



## ThAbtO

tvmaster2 said:


> can anyone direct me to where directions on using JMFS, MFS Live Cd and WinMFS can be found? The original website seems to be out of business, and I can't find the directions anywhere. I've got all the discs, just don't have the knowledge
> thanks


If you mean if there is an "Idiot's Guide to Tivo Upgrades." No, there isn't one. 

If you use Windows, WinMFS is the easiest to use. Connect the drive(s) one at a time, or both. In the Menu, choose backup, a window will ask where and what file to save the backup. Shut down, Swap drives, if needed. Choose Restore. Select NO to box that say Limit to 1TB? Choose MFSAdd. Choose SuperSize.

Depending on the drive you have, you may need to use WDIdle3.exe, for that, you would need to boot to something other than Windows, such as the Ultimate Boot CD and run WDIdle3.exe /D.


----------



## tvmaster2

ThAbtO said:


> If you mean if there is an "Idiot's Guide to Tivo Upgrades." No, there isn't one.
> 
> If you use Windows, WinMFS is the easiest to use. Connect the drive(s) one at a time, or both. In the Menu, choose backup, a window will ask where and what file to save the backup. Shut down, Swap drives, if needed. Choose Restore. Select NO to box that say Limit to 1TB? Choose MFSAdd. Choose SuperSize.
> 
> Depending on the drive you have, you may need to use WDIdle3.exe, for that, you would need to boot to something other than Windows, such as the Ultimate Boot CD and run WDIdle3.exe /D.


perfect, that's as close to an idiots guide as I need. Job done


----------



## unitron

andrewperrin said:


> Thanks for all the advice. Unfortunately I get the same thing still:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> [email protected]:/home/aperrin/Downloads# ./mfstools-2.0/mfstool restore -pi ./652m.bak /dev/sdb
> Starting restore
> Uncompressed backup size: 1390 megabytes
> Restoring 1390 of 1390 megabytes (100.00%) (58.84% compression)
> Cleaning up restore.  Please wait a moment.
> Segmentation fault
> 
> I can't boot the MFSLive because I don't have a CD-ROM, but I'm going to work on booting it into a VMWare window. Any other advice welcome!


Would the source files for the MFS Live cd be of use to you?

Could you use them to make a version of it you could run from your hard drive?

Or is there a way you could use the cd .iso to make a bootable USB thumb drive?

(I wouldn't mind having one of those myself)


----------



## andrewperrin

Yes, source files for MFS Live CD could turn out to be helpful - thanks!

I don't know how to make a bootable thumb drive from an ISO image. I'm sure it can be done, though - I'll see if I can figure that out.

Thanks.


----------



## andrewperrin

unitron said:


> Would the source files for the MFS Live cd be of use to you?
> 
> Could you use them to make a version of it you could run from your hard drive?
> 
> Or is there a way you could use the cd .iso to make a bootable USB thumb drive?
> 
> (I wouldn't mind having one of those myself)


Update: I was able to create a VMWare virtual machine and boot MFS Live as the guest OS in it. I mounted a USB stick containing the 652m image (thanks!) and used a USB-to-SATA dongle to attach the new hard drive. With that setup in place, I successfully restored the image to the new drive, expanded the drive, and placed it back in the TiVo, where it is now working.

Thanks very much for your advice and guidance!


----------



## unitron

andrewperrin said:


> Update: I was able to create a VMWare virtual machine and boot MFS Live as the guest OS in it. I mounted a USB stick containing the 652m image (thanks!) and used a USB-to-SATA dongle to attach the new hard drive. With that setup in place, I successfully restored the image to the new drive, expanded the drive, and placed it back in the TiVo, where it is now working.
> 
> Thanks very much for your advice and guidance!


Congrats!
:up::up::up:


----------



## Xenon

Hello everyone,

I have a Tivo HD DVR with a 160GB internal and a 500GB external(offical). My internal drive is starting to make clicking noises and I've had some boot issue recently so I want to upgrade soon. I have a 750 WD Caviar Black drive laying around and was planning to use that. I looked through the FAQ it says that I should be able to upgrade and keep my shows on the external using MFSLive(downloaded 1.4). Is that correct? 
Could I move those shows to the internal after the upgrade? 

I'd be grateful for any input.


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## jmbach

You can. However I would not use a Caviar Black as that generates a lot of heat. You might think about getting a 2TB drive for a replacement and combine the external and internal on one drive.


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## Xenon

Thanks, I didn't realize heat was an issue with those drives. I was hoping not to have to buy a new drive. Any suggestions on a good but cheap 1TB drive.


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## jmbach

WD Green AV EURX drive is a good first choice.


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## ThAbtO

Xenon said:


> Thanks, I didn't realize heat was an issue with those drives. I was hoping not to have to buy a new drive. Any suggestions on a good but cheap 1TB drive.


You can use WD10EURX or EURS, WD20EURX/S. Series 3 can handle up to 2 TB with the latest Tivo software (11.0h+).

If you use Windows, then WinMFS is the easiest program to use to backup, restore, expand.


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## lpwcomp

I don't believe there is any way to expand a TiVo with an external drive attached and retain anything. You absolutely cannot move recordings from the external to the internal.


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## Xenon

jmbach said:


> WD Green AV EURX drive is a good first choice.





ThAbtO said:


> You can use *WD10EURX* or EURS, WD20EURX/S. Series 3 can handle up to 2 TB with the latest Tivo software (11.0h+).
> 
> If you use Windows, then WinMFS is the easiest program to use to backup, restore, expand.


This looks great and I can get it from Walmart new for under 60. I have the just a plain old Tivo HD.



lpwcomp said:


> I don't believe there is any way to expand a TiVo with an external drive attached and retain anything. You absolutely cannot move recordings from the external to the internal.


I was thinking that this was the case but I thought I saw somewhere that you could, guess not.



> I already have a My DVR Expander connected. Can I upgrade the TiVo's built-in drive, without losing the recordings on the external drive?
> 
> No. You cannot upgrade the TiVo's built-in drive without losing all recordings on the external drive. You cannot upgrade the built-in drive until you disconnect and remove the My DVR Expander.
> 
> You can transfer unprotected recordings to another TiVo with MRV and/or download them to your computer. Once recordings are transferred to another TiVo with MRV, or downloaded to a computer, you can transfer them back to the TiVo after the new drive upgrade.
> 
> Once you upgrade the built-in drive, the TiVo's "play and play" drive expansion no longer works.


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## andrewperrin

I have a TiVo HD (652 series) -- NOT the same unit I was working on a few weeks ago though. This one had the original 160GB internal drive plus an external 1TB originally set up using mfs tools. I was getting frequent reboots, so tried to combine and expand the set into a single internal 2TB drive using MFS Live. Following these instructions, I did:



Code:


backup -Tao - /dev/sdb /dev/sdc | restore -r 4 -s 127 -xzpi - /dev/sdd

and got the "Restore: Backup target not large enough" error message. So I tried:



Code:


backup -f 9999 /mnt/LOCAL/tivo.bak /dev/sdb /dev/sdc

then



Code:


restore -r 4 -s 127 -xzpi /mnt/LOCAL/tivo.bak /dev/sdd

...which was successful except that it didn't expand into the full new disk. So I used:



Code:


mfsadd -x /dev/sdd

and it reported the full expansion, with 3 additional expansion times remaining. pdisk -l reports 15 partitions, with the last being "New MFS Media", 1.7T, and mfsinfo reports the MFS volume set contains 6 partitions, total MFS sectors -389791744d, total MFS volume size 1906824 MiB, Estimated hours in a standalone TiVo: 2379.

However, upon starting up, the TiVo shows the "Welcome! Powering Up" screen, then just goes to a gray screen. Any thoughts/advice most welcome!


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## jmbach

Which version of MFSTools did you use?


----------



## andrewperrin

MFSLive v. 1.4


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## jmbach

andrewperrin said:


> MFSLive v. 1.4


Download and MFSTools 3.2 and try the same thing.


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## Mr Tony

so I want to upgrade the HD in my Tivo HD. My stock drive took a dump so I found an old 320GB drive that works. Will this drive work in the HD?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/wd-main...ulti/9312067.p?id=1219011388237&skuId=9312067


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## ThAbtO

unclehonkey said:


> so I want to upgrade the HD in my Tivo HD. My stock drive took a dump so I found an old 320GB drive that works. Will this drive work in the HD?
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/wd-main...ulti/9312067.p?id=1219011388237&skuId=9312067


Its a 7200 RPM drive which creates more heat and draws more power than the Tivo can provide. Its also not meant for DVR use.

Look for a Green -AV drive, ending in EURS, EURX, EFRX (Red drive works.)


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## Mr Tony

ThAbtO said:


> Its a 7200 RPM drive which creates more heat and draws more power than the Tivo can provide. Its also not meant for DVR use.


thanks for info..took it back to BB a little bit ago 



> Look for a Green -AV drive, ending in EURS, EURX, EFRX (Red drive works.)


The EZRX ones wont work?
Found a 1TB on amazon for under $50
http://www.amazon.com/Green-1TB-Des...=UTF8&qid=1446414040&sr=1-2&keywords=wd10eurx


----------



## ThAbtO

unclehonkey said:


> thanks for info..took it back to BB a little bit ago
> 
> The EZRX ones wont work?
> Found a 1TB on amazon for under $50
> http://www.amazon.com/Green-1TB-Des...=UTF8&qid=1446414040&sr=1-2&keywords=wd10eurx


It may work, but its just a Green drive not AV. You would have to fuss with the Intellipark with WDIdle3.exe.


----------



## Mr Tony

ThAbtO said:


> It may work, but its just a Green drive not AV. You would have to fuss with the Intellipark with WDIdle3.exe.


OK good to know
I found a 1TB drive that is a AV-GP one that should work. Now to debate if I need the 1TB or 2TB 
(its used for OTA only)


----------



## ThAbtO

unclehonkey said:


> OK good to know
> I found a 1TB drive that is a AV-GP one that should work. Now to debate if I need the 1TB or 2TB
> (its used for OTA only)


Max it to 2TB


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## Nomidlname

I have read everything on here. I have a Tivo Series 3 HDXL TCD658000. I downloaded WINMFS 9.3 and extracted it. I purchased a WD20EURX from Amazon direct. I connected the two drives and was going to direct copy. The WINMFS (running as admin) saw the TIVO drive so I backed up all the files but it would not see the new drive. I went to windows management (windows 7) and the PC could not see the drive. It does however see it in the bios upon bootup. I tried to download WinDlg_v1_29 and installed it but it crashes each time I try to start it (running as admin or not). So, I guess my new drive is bad or is there some trick to get the PC to see it? I did not mount the drive, just went to see if I could see it anywhere other than the bios.


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## HerronScott

Nomidlname said:


> I have read everything on here. I have a Tivo Series 3 HDXL TCD658000. I downloaded WINMFS 9.3 and extracted it. I purchased a WD20EURX from Amazon direct. I connected the two drives and was going to direct copy. The WINMFS (running as admin) saw the TIVO drive so I backed up all the files but it would not see the new drive. I went to windows management (windows 7) and the PC could not see the drive. It does however see it in the bios upon bootup. I tried to download WinDlg_v1_29 and installed it but it crashes each time I try to start it (running as admin or not). So, I guess my new drive is bad or is there some trick to get the PC to see it? I did not mount the drive, just went to see if I could see it anywhere other than the bios.


Others have reported issues with the new WD20EURX not being recognized by some PC's and by TiVo's.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=535282

Sounds like some change on the hard drive side (firmware?).

Scott


----------



## unitron

Nomidlname said:


> I have read everything on here. I have a Tivo Series 3 HDXL TCD658000. I downloaded WINMFS 9.3 and extracted it. I purchased a WD20EURX from Amazon direct. I connected the two drives and was going to direct copy. The WINMFS (running as admin) saw the TIVO drive so I backed up all the files but it would not see the new drive. I went to windows management (windows 7) and the PC could not see the drive. It does however see it in the bios upon bootup. I tried to download WinDlg_v1_29 and installed it but it crashes each time I try to start it (running as admin or not). So, I guess my new drive is bad or is there some trick to get the PC to see it? I did not mount the drive, just went to see if I could see it anywhere other than the bios.


If you had a copy of the Ultimate Boot CD and booted from that, you'd probably find that you could run the DOS based version of the Western Digital diagnostic software and the drive would pass with flying colors.

As I did just recently on a couple of those drives.

But I couldn't get Windows or WinDig or WinMFS to see the drives.

Even though I used that same PC back in June of 2014 to set up a WD20EURX for an S3 with WinMFS with no problem.

Further, I used the jmfs cd, v1.04, which I had used once before on a TCD652160 drive, and copied the original drive to one of those new WDs and expanded, and it seemed to work.

But once I put it in the TiVo, it can't see the drive, either.

newegg's gonna give me my money back, eventually, but I'm still stuck trying to figure out a substitute drive to use.

Having had about 5 Seagate 2TB drives go bad one after the other like dominoes falling recently I know what I won't be using, but otherwise not sure.

Whatever it is, it'll have been on sale somewhere between Black Friday and Christmas, but almost certainly won't be when I go to buy.


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## Ratamacue

I've got a 652160 box that I'd like to upgrade. It's currently got a 1 TB drive that I used Instant Cake on when the (ridiculously expensive) DVR expander drive enclosure failed a few years ago. Has anyone heard of problems using WinMFS with the WD Red WD20EFRX drives on a Windows 10 machine?


----------



## Nomidlname

I went ahead and sent the hard drive back and am getting a replacement from Amazon.com. they ran out of stock so the one I get I assume will be brand spanking new. I will let you all know what the deal is when I get the new one.


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## lpwcomp

I know someone recently had a problem with some drives that appeared to be caused by the power and data connectors not being aligned with one another so that neither a dock nor the combined connector in a TiVo could make a proper connection.


----------



## unitron

lpwcomp said:


> I know someone recently had a problem with some drives that appeared to be caused by the power and data connectors not being aligned with one another so that neither a dock nor the combined connector in a TiVo could make a proper connection.


Do you mean the power and data connectors that are part of the drive itself didn't adhere closely enough to what I assume is the industry standard for size and spacing and stuff?

Boy, that would be a fun one to hunt down.


----------



## lpwcomp

unitron said:


> Do you mean the power and data connectors that are part of the drive itself didn't adhere closely enough to what I assume is the industry standard for size and spacing and stuff?
> 
> Boy, that would be a fun one to hunt down.


He posted pictures. It wasn't size or spacing, it was the fact that one of the connectors was slightly farther from the edgeof the drive so that when a combined connector hit the stop, it wasn't fully connected. At least that's what it looked like to me.


----------



## unitron

lpwcomp said:


> He posted pictures. It wasn't size or spacing, it was the fact that one of the connectors was slightly farther from the edgeof the drive so that when a combined connector hit the stop, it wasn't fully connected. At least that's what it looked like to me.


Time to get out the lighted magnifier.

Where's the shoulders slumped, exhausted sigh smiley when you need it?


----------



## lpwcomp

unitron said:


> Time to get out the lighted magnifier.
> 
> Where's the shoulders slumped, exhausted sigh smiley when you need it?


One other indicator. It worked fine when connected internally to his computer, where the power and data cables are separate.


----------



## dougdingle

lpwcomp said:


> He posted pictures. It wasn't size or spacing, it was the fact that one of the connectors was slightly farther from the edgeof the drive so that when a combined connector hit the stop, it wasn't fully connected. At least that's what it looked like to me.


Easy enough to "break apart" the TiVo connector without actually damaging anything.

First, get a SATA power extension like this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/OKgear-SATA-15-pin-Power-Extension-Cable-12-inch-Length-/251065053196?hash=item3a74a4b00c:g:FHAAAMXQdGJR0Fmv

Use that between the TiVo connector and drive.

Then use something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Short-SATA-7pin-Male-to-Female-M-F-Extension-HDD-connector-data-cord-Cable-/311502445774?hash=item4886fe1cce:g:Q84AAOxyW7tRiHqB

to extend the data connection from the TiVo connector to the drive.


----------



## unitron

lpwcomp said:


> One other indicator. It worked fine when connected internally to his computer, where the power and data cables are separate.


In my case, where XP, and therefore WinMFS, can't see a WD20EURX, the PC data and power cables are separate, but I'll keep in mind the possibility of a combo plug problem for future hard drive wrangling.


----------



## Jerimiah

I have been searching everywhere I can think of, but am having zero luck finding Winmfs. The site most people recommend is no longer registered so that is no help. Any clues as where I should go? (I have gone back a number of pages, but dont see a link. Unless I am blind, which IS a possibility.)


----------



## ThAbtO

Jerimiah said:


> I have been searching everywhere I can think of, but am having zero luck finding Winmfs. The site most people recommend is no longer registered so that is no help. Any clues as where I should go? (I have gone back a number of pages, but dont see a link. Unless I am blind, which IS a possibility.)


WinMFS


----------



## tvmaster2

unitron said:


> If you had a copy of the Ultimate Boot CD and booted from that, you'd probably find that you could run the DOS based version of the Western Digital diagnostic software and the drive would pass with flying colors.
> 
> As I did just recently on a couple of those drives.
> 
> But I couldn't get Windows or WinDig or WinMFS to see the drives.
> 
> Even though I used that same PC back in June of 2014 to set up a WD20EURX for an S3 with WinMFS with no problem.
> 
> Further, I used the jmfs cd, v1.04, which I had used once before on a TCD652160 drive, and copied the original drive to one of those new WDs and expanded, and it seemed to work.
> 
> But once I put it in the TiVo, it can't see the drive, either.
> 
> newegg's gonna give me my money back, eventually, but I'm still stuck trying to figure out a substitute drive to use.
> 
> Having had about 5 Seagate 2TB drives go bad one after the other like dominoes falling recently I know what I won't be using, but otherwise not sure.
> 
> Whatever it is, it'll have been on sale somewhere between Black Friday and Christmas, but almost certainly won't be when I go to buy.


So would you NOT recommend a WDxxEURX model drive for a TiVo HD?


----------



## unitron

tvmaster2 said:


> So would you NOT recommend a WDxxEURX model drive for a TiVo HD?


Somewhere else around here is a post or three from another TCF'er who worked out that apparently the reason EURX'es suddenly weren't working is that WD was sending them out with something enabled that's called Power Up In Standby, or PUIS, which is where the electronics on the drive will respond to the PC's BIOS/CMOS, but the actual platters aren't spun up just because power has been applied, so if the program that wants to use the drive doesn't know to specifically send a "wake up" command, the drive appears to not be findable.

Said user didn't post this until just after I'd sent everything back to newegg, so I couldn't test it myself, but it pretty much perfectly explains what I'd encountered.

He also explains what to use to disable that "feature".


----------



## lpwcomp

If I had this problem, I might consider contacting WD for an RMA since drives are not supposed to be shipped with PM2 ( which is what WD calls it) enabled. It's supposed to require a jumper to enable it.


----------



## HerronScott

unitron said:


> Somewhere else around here is a post or three from another TCF'er who worked out that apparently the reason EURX'es suddenly weren't working is that WD was sending them out with something enabled that's called Power Up In Standby, or PUIS, which is where the electronics on the drive will respond to the PC's BIOS/CMOS, but the actual platters aren't spun up just because power has been applied, so if the program that wants to use the drive doesn't know to specifically send a "wake up" command, the drive appears to not be findable.".


In case anyone else runs into this with a new EURX model drive. Here's the thread.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=536101

And here's the details.



sixpackd said:


> With some recent posts regarding issues with EURX drives manufactured recently, I wanted to post my experience.
> 
> The model I received is WD20EURX-57T0FY0, with a 21 Jun 2015 Manufacture date from Thailand.
> 
> After some troubleshooting, I used HDAT2 from the UBCD, and found that the power-up in standby (PUIS or PM2) was enabled, even though documentation states that pins 3 and 4 need to be jumpered for this to be enabled.
> (Note, IntelliPark was not enabled on either drive)
> 
> I proceeded to use HDAT2 to disable this feature, and now both drives happily work in both TiVos, with no visible issues. Both TiVos have 318hrs of HD space.


Scott


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## js29tiv

Jerimiah said:


> I have been searching everywhere I can think of, but am having zero luck finding Winmfs. The site most people recommend is no longer registered so that is no help. Any clues as where I should go? (I have gone back a number of pages, but dont see a link. Unless I am blind, which IS a possibility.)


Someone also posted a copy of WinMFS on google drive (don't know what version it is):
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_yRcBHnyFARcHd3NGZ0RXZqV2M

as mentioned in this TivoCommunity thread:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10794893#post10794893


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## Joe01880

3TB WD (REFURB, Man. Recertified) Green WD30EZRX 3TB from newegg for $64.99 if anyone's interested.
That's a good price!

http://promotions.newegg.com/NEemai...email64=amJoMDE4ODBAdmVyaXpvbi5uZXQ=#section3


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## slyone

Have 2, did 1 yrs ago & want to upgrade the other but see drives are sparce...wtf? I want a good drive with a smooth upgrade. main reason is cant access netflix cause it has a now defunct user number in which I was told cant be removed by me.


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## fluffie

Trying to revive my TivoHD 652160 which is stuck on the Welcome! Powering up... screen

I replaced the power supply, still no success.

I am now trying to restore a brand new 1TB WD10EURX with WinMFS.
I have tried a few downloads of the .tbk but WinMFS tells me "Not a valid backup file!"

I haven't tried making a backup from my original disk, as it is not functional. I don't care if I lose all my recordings. 

Any help much appreciated.

-Linda


----------



## worachj

fluffie said:


> Trying to revive my TivoHD 652160 which is stuck on the Welcome! Powering up... screen
> 
> I replaced the power supply, still no success.
> 
> I am now trying to restore a brand new 1TB WD10EURX with WinMFS.
> I have tried a few downloads of the .tbk but WinMFS tells me "Not a valid backup file!"
> 
> I haven't tried making a backup from my original disk, as it is not functional. I don't care if I lose all my recordings.
> 
> Any help much appreciated.
> 
> -Linda


Not sure which version of WinMFS you're using. Here's a link to Beta vesion 9.3f if it helps.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/anlboptp509jr6l/winmfs_beta9_3f.zip?dl=0


----------



## ThAbtO

fluffie said:


> Trying to revive my TivoHD 652160 which is stuck on the Welcome! Powering up... screen
> 
> I replaced the power supply, still no success.
> 
> I am now trying to restore a brand new 1TB WD10EURX with WinMFS.
> I have tried a few downloads of the .tbk but WinMFS tells me "Not a valid backup file!"
> 
> I haven't tried making a backup from my original disk, as it is not functional. I don't care if I lose all my recordings.
> 
> Any help much appreciated.
> 
> -Linda


What is the actual file size of the .TBK you downloaded?
The actual file is about 428MB.

Size 429 MB (449,615,124 bytes)


----------



## fluffie

same size, 449,615,124 bytes


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## fluffie

The beta 9 version worked i was using beta 6.

Thank you all!


----------



## ThAbtO

fluffie said:


> The beta 9 version worked i was using beta 6.
> 
> Thank you all!


Didn't you notice the WinMFS link in my PM?


----------



## fluffie

I did notice it, thank you for that, but at first I only downloaded the backup file because I already had what I thought was a working copy of WinMFS from an earlier post. My BAD and apologies.


----------



## crunchymusic

Woke up last week and the Series 3 **** the bed. Replaced all the caps already and still stuck on the Powering Up screen. Plugged the drive into my computer and it's not even spinning up. No clue what happened but there you go. About to purchase a WD20EURX from Amazon (unless PCpartpicker shows me a better price) and would love to know a) if this one will be compatible (I read most all of the last few pages and seems like y'all who know more than I like it) and b) if I need anything besides the tivo image to make it recognize all 2 tb or should I just put in a 1tb. 

This place, btw, is chock full of awesome. Thanks so much for all the help over the years. This is only my 4th post cause I rarely have anything to contribute except my undying thanks.


----------



## dougdingle

crunchymusic said:


> Woke up last week and the Series 3 **** the bed. Replaced all the caps already and still stuck on the Powering Up screen. Plugged the drive into my computer and it's not even spinning up. No clue what happened but there you go. About to purchase a WD20EURX from Amazon (unless PCpartpicker shows me a better price) and would love to know a) if this one will be compatible (I read most all of the last few pages and seems like y'all who know more than I like it) and b) if I need anything besides the tivo image to make it recognize all 2 tb or should I just put in a 1tb.


That drive should work fine, and should have all 2TB recognized once you use one of the available programs to copy the image and expand it. That's the maximum size drive a Series 3 will support, and gives just over 300 hrs of HD recording time.


----------



## crunchymusic

dougdingle said:


> That drive should work fine, and should have all 2TB recognized once you use one of the available programs to copy the image and expand it. That's the maximum size drive a Series 3 will support, and gives just over 300 hrs of HD recording time.


I plan to use WinMFS with a standard series 3 image. I can't image my old drive, as I said. It's kinda dead. I just need to go back thru and find the link to the latest series 3 image I guess. :up:


----------



## ThAbtO

crunchymusic said:


> I plan to use WinMFS with a standard series 3 image. I can't image my old drive, as I said. It's kinda dead. I just need to go back thru and find the link to the latest series 3 image I guess. :up:


What is the exact model number (begins with TCD and can be found on the back label next to the power cord.)


----------



## crunchymusic

ThAbtO said:


> What is the exact model number (begins with TCD and can be found on the back label next to the power cord.)


TCD648250B. Has a WD Caviar in it now.


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## ThAbtO

crunchymusic said:


> TCD648250B. Has a WD Caviar in it now.


PM sent on 648 with 11.0m.


----------



## unitron

crunchymusic said:


> Woke up last week and the Series 3 **** the bed. Replaced all the caps already and still stuck on the Powering Up screen. Plugged the drive into my computer and it's not even spinning up. No clue what happened but there you go. About to purchase a WD20EURX from Amazon (unless PCpartpicker shows me a better price) and would love to know a) if this one will be compatible (I read most all of the last few pages and seems like y'all who know more than I like it) and b) if I need anything besides the tivo image to make it recognize all 2 tb or should I just put in a 1tb.
> 
> This place, btw, is chock full of awesome. Thanks so much for all the help over the years. This is only my 4th post cause I rarely have anything to contribute except my undying thanks.


Make sure that EURX is being sold by Amazon themselves (or Western Digital itself) and not by one of their "partners" if you want to be sure to get a new, unused, full 3 year warranty one.

And search this site for PUIS (or P.U.I.S.) to learn about something you might have to change on the drive.

Might as well search and learn about Intellipark and

wdidle3

while you're at it, since you can't be sure if the drive will have it enabled or disabled from the factory.


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## crunchymusic

unitron said:


> Make sure that EURX is being sold by Amazon themselves (or Western Digital itself) and not by one of their "partners" if you want to be sure to get a new, unused, full 3 year warranty one.
> 
> And search this site for PUIS (or P.U.I.S.) to learn about something you might have to change on the drive.
> 
> Might as well search and learn about Intellipark and wdidle3 while you're at it, since you can't be sure if the drive will have it enabled or disabled from the factory.


Fulfilled by Amazon?

I have seen the intellipark and wdidle3 stuff- gotta refresh my memory about fixing those items. But is PUIS?

And thanks to ThAbtO cause I can't PM him back yet!


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## crunchymusic

Ok so... use WinMFS to put the image on, UBCD to disable PIUS, wdidle3 to reset idle time. Anything else?

BTW, this has been helpful- http://www.rosswalker.co.uk/tivo_upgrade/


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## ThAbtO

crunchymusic said:


> Ok so... use WinMFS to put the image on, UBCD to disable PIUS, wdidle3 to reset idle time. Anything else?
> 
> BTW, this has been helpful- http://www.rosswalker.co.uk/tivo_upgrade/


Trial and error.

Since the UK only had series 1, so it may or may not apply to US units.


----------



## crunchymusic

ThAbtO said:


> Trial and error.
> 
> Since the UK only had series 1, so it may or may not apply to US units.


LOL @ trial and error. Yep!

Hard drive is on the way so we shall see. I plan to backup the hard drive once it is working so if I do ever have to replace the HD again I won't have to enter all my shows again!


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## ThAbtO

I once did an upgrade to a Series 2, 540 to a 1TB, but it failed after a few weeks. It was then RMA'd to WD.


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## Luke M

I used MFSTools 3.2 to copy to a new 2TB drive (mfscopy -ai), and it worked, but I only have 287 hours, not the 318 hours that others have reported. Do I have to run the Supersize program, and if so, what are the correct parameters?

Thanks.


----------



## dougdingle

Luke M said:


> I used MFSTools 3.2 to copy to a new 2TB drive (mfscopy -ai), and it worked, but I only have 287 hours, not the 318 hours that others have reported. Do I have to run the Supersize program, and if so, what are the correct parameters?
> 
> Thanks.


Yes, to get to 318 requires Supersize.

No parameters, you click on it in Winmfs, and it happens instantly. You'll get no notification back from Winmfs that anything was done, but it will be at 318 hours when you put it back in the TiVo.


----------



## Luke M

I'd prefer not to use WinMFS since it's an old tool and I used MFSTools to make the copy. The supersize program has 3 options:
-m MaxDiskSize in KB (default 2147483647)
-u User SizeInKB in KB (default -1)
-c TivoClips SizeinKB (default -1)

My current settings are:
MaxDiskSize 161000000
User SizeinKB 145001800
TivoClips -1

Is it dangerous to allow supersize to change MaxDiskSize and UserSize to the defaults? And what is the proper TivoClips setting to minimize the size? 0? 1?


----------



## crunchymusic

ThAbtO said:


> Trial and error.
> 
> Since the UK only had series 1, so it may or may not apply to US units.


Doesn't matter cause installed 2tb hd and windows 10 doesn't recognize it so neither does WinMFS.

Stuck already... and just started!


----------



## crunchymusic

Suddenly showed up. Not sure what I did to get it to show but it did. Finally!


----------



## dougdingle

crunchymusic said:


> Doesn't matter cause installed 2tb hd and windows 10 doesn't recognize it so neither does WinMFS.
> 
> Stuck already... and just started!


That's not how it works. Windows will not recognize a TiVo formatted or a bare raw drive as being usable, and will often offer to initialize it. Doing that will stop it working in the TiVo or with Winmfs, so don't do it. The key is just having the BIOS recognize it on bootup. If the BIOS sees it, Winmfs should as well.

Winmfs looks for the raw tivo disk structure and will recognize a tivo formatted drive, as well as a totally bare drive to restore an image to. It ignores Windows initialized drives.


----------



## unitron

WinMFS does have a "show mounted drives" option, that'll show drives that Windows has recognized because they have an IBM/DOS style Master Boot Record.

This can be helpful if you need to see if somehow Windows initialized the drive without asking, or if you're looking to re-use a drive.

As always, be absolutely sure which drive is which.

Even with that option engaged, it should *not* show the drive the PC booted Windows from (that would be the drive with the partition Windows thinks of as the C: drive), so as to not let you overwrite your operating system, which is to say that spike coded the program to protect you from being able to screw up that completely.


----------



## crunchymusic

unitron said:


> WinMFS does have a "show mounted drives" option, that'll show drives that Windows has recognized because they have an IBM/DOS style Master Boot Record.
> 
> This can be helpful if you need to see if somehow Windows initialized the drive without asking, or if you're looking to re-use a drive.
> 
> As always, be absolutely sure which drive is which.
> 
> Even with that option engaged, it should *not* show the drive the PC booted Windows from (that would be the drive with the partition Windows thinks of as the C: drive), so as to not let you overwrite your operating system, which is to say that spike coded the program to protect you from being able to screw up that completely.


Yep we're finally up and running, with Error 51.

Manufactured in 2015 so we should be good without running wdidle (hopefully). Currently starting over to clear the Error 51 issue and hopefully it will see the new storage this time. Thanks for everyone's help and Cross your fingers!


----------



## crunchymusic

and wouldn't you know it, on a whim I plugged in the old drive and with a terrible crunching sound it fired up. Currently trying to make a backup before it dies completely.


----------



## crunchymusic

dougdingle said:


> That's not how it works. Windows will not recognize a TiVo formatted or a bare raw drive as being usable, and will often offer to initialize it. Doing that will stop it working in the TiVo or with Winmfs, so don't do it. The key is just having the BIOS recognize it on bootup. If the BIOS sees it, Winmfs should as well.
> 
> Winmfs looks for the raw tivo disk structure and will recognize a tivo formatted drive, as well as a totally bare drive to restore an image to. It ignores Windows initialized drives.


Oddly enough BIOS saw it, Disk Management saw it but WinMFS did not. And it's not seeing my old drive even tho BIOS and DM both see it.

Not sure if it is a Win10 thing.


----------



## HerronScott

Luke M said:


> I'd prefer not to use WinMFS since it's an old tool and I used MFSTools to make the copy. The supersize program has 3 options:
> -m MaxDiskSize in KB (default 2147483647)
> -u User SizeInKB in KB (default -1)
> -c TivoClips SizeinKB (default -1)
> 
> My current settings are:
> MaxDiskSize 161000000
> User SizeinKB 145001800
> TivoClips -1
> 
> Is it dangerous to allow supersize to change MaxDiskSize and UserSize to the defaults? And what is the proper TivoClips setting to minimize the size? 0? 1?


It will be interesting to see what replies you get in the MFS Tools 3.2 thread. I don't recall seeing any information on using that for Supersizing (but can't say that I've ever looked for it either). I assume you tried searching for information on those values?

And despite WinMFS being old, it will work for supersizing if you don't get feedback from anyone.

Scott


----------



## ObviousMan

I just used WinMFS (linked 9.3f beta) to replace nearly dead original HD from TIVO HD 652 model. This unit had a new power supply installed 3 years ago.
WinMFS refused to back up my original HD with a claim "not Tivo disk", even though you could select it as a source. In any case, WD diagnostic program reports too many bad sectors on it, so I doubt it would have been good copy, even if it worked. I used posted 652 .tbk file. I used 10EFRX as it was on sale at NewEgg, and 157 hours (after supersize) is way more than the original drive had held.
It gave me error 51 as well, which was expected. By clearing everything it was solved, but it required the cablecard to get re-paired with the device - a call to Comcast fixed that.
But now for some reason it will not give any VOD options at all. No Amazon prime, no Youtube, nothing.
It installed 3 or 4 updates after the restore. Not sure why this is.
OM


----------



## Luke M

HerronScott said:


> It will be interesting to see what replies you get in the MFS Tools 3.2 thread. I don't recall seeing any information on using that for Supersizing (but can't say that I've ever looked for it either). I assume you tried searching for information on those values?


Yes, didn't have any search luck (though it's probably out there).



HerronScott said:


> And despite WinMFS being old, it will work for supersizing if you don't get feedback from anyone.


Ok, I'll give WinMFS a try if nothing else turns up.


----------



## crunchymusic

unitron said:


> WinMFS does have a "show mounted drives" option, that'll show drives that Windows has recognized because they have an IBM/DOS style Master Boot Record.
> 
> This can be helpful if you need to see if somehow Windows initialized the drive without asking, or if you're looking to re-use a drive.
> 
> As always, be absolutely sure which drive is which.
> 
> Even with that option engaged, it should *not* show the drive the PC booted Windows from (that would be the drive with the partition Windows thinks of as the C: drive), so as to not let you overwrite your operating system, which is to say that spike coded the program to protect you from being able to screw up that completely.


Well I am up and running but it shows the standard HD size. And it is a 2 TB. So I guess I start over?


----------



## crunchymusic

dougdingle said:


> That's not how it works. Windows will not recognize a TiVo formatted or a bare raw drive as being usable, and will often offer to initialize it. Doing that will stop it working in the TiVo or with Winmfs, so don't do it. The key is just having the BIOS recognize it on bootup. If the BIOS sees it, Winmfs should as well.
> 
> Winmfs looks for the raw tivo disk structure and will recognize a tivo formatted drive, as well as a totally bare drive to restore an image to. It ignores Windows initialized drives.


Well it helps to run WinMFS as Administrator... derp...


----------



## jmbach

Luke M said:


> I'd prefer not to use WinMFS since it's an old tool and I used MFSTools to make the copy. The supersize program has 3 options:
> -m MaxDiskSize in KB (default 2147483647)
> -u User SizeInKB in KB (default -1)
> -c TivoClips SizeinKB (default -1)
> 
> My current settings are:
> MaxDiskSize 161000000
> User SizeinKB 145001800
> TivoClips -1
> 
> Is it dangerous to allow supersize to change MaxDiskSize and UserSize to the defaults? And what is the proper TivoClips setting to minimize the size? 0? 1?


The defaults are just fine. Nice things is that if there is a problem you can set the values back.


----------



## Luke M

jmbach said:


> The defaults are just fine. Nice things is that if there is a problem you can set the values back.


The reason I didn't try that (I ran supersize and then immediately ran it again to revert the changes) is, it seemed odd that the most relevant-sounding option (TivoClips) was the only one that didn't change. But obviously, I don't know what I'm doing.


----------



## ThAbtO

ObviousMan said:


> I just used WinMFS (linked 9.3f beta) to replace nearly dead original HD from TIVO HD 652 model. This unit had a new power supply installed 3 years ago.
> WinMFS refused to back up my original HD with a claim "not Tivo disk", even though you could select it as a source. In any case, WD diagnostic program reports too many bad sectors on it, so I doubt it would have been good copy, even if it worked. I used posted 652 .tbk file. I used 10EFRX as it was on sale at NewEgg, and 157 hours (after supersize) is way more than the original drive had held.
> It gave me error 51 as well, which was expected. By clearing everything it was solved, but it required the cablecard to get re-paired with the device - a call to Comcast fixed that.
> But now for some reason it will not give any VOD options at all. No Amazon prime, no Youtube, nothing.
> It installed 3 or 4 updates after the restore. Not sure why this is.
> OM


You will not get Amazon Prime on a Series 3, and YouTube was removed. The only thing still on it is Netflix Playlist.


----------



## ThAbtO

crunchymusic said:


> Well I am up and running but it shows the standard HD size. And it is a 2 TB. So I guess I start over?


You could still re-hook it back up to the PC and with WinMFS, do MFSAdd and SuperSize.


----------



## crunchymusic

ThAbtO said:


> You could still re-hook it back up to the PC and with WinMFS, do MFSAdd and SuperSize.


MFSadd told me it wouldn't do anything larger than 1TB but I told it to do it anyway. Let's see what happens...


----------



## crunchymusic

crunchymusic said:


> MFSadd told me it wouldn't do anything larger than 1TB but I told it to do it anyway. Let's see what happens...


As they say in my hometown of Lexington...

THAT done it!

318 HD hours and 2777 sd hours!


----------



## crunchymusic

crunchymusic said:


> As they say in my hometown of Lexington...
> 
> THAT done it!
> 
> 318 HD hours and 2777 sd hours!


So far, so good. Seems to be working great. Thanks to everyone who helped. I now have more Tivo space than I know what to do with!


----------



## dougdingle

crunchymusic said:


> So far, so good. Seems to be working great. Thanks to everyone who helped. I now have more Tivo space than I know what to do with!


That's what I said about available space when I went from dual 1.2 meg floppies to my first 13 megabyte hard drive...


----------



## Luke M

jmbach said:


> The defaults are just fine. Nice things is that if there is a problem you can set the values back.


Well, I ran WinMFS supersize on the drive, and guess what? It didn't change any of those parameters.

Two different, but equivalent supersize methods? Or maybe MFSTools supersize doesn't support the old tivos? (I didn't test it, just changed the parameters back again).


----------



## jmbach

Luke M said:


> Well, I ran WinMFS supersize on the drive, and guess what? It didn't change any of those parameters.
> 
> Two different, but equivalent supersize methods? Or maybe MFSTools supersize doesn't support the old tivos? (I didn't test it, just changed the parameters back again).


My understanding is that they supersize two different ways. MFSTools version is more flexible and survives repeated copying / expansion.


----------



## Luke M

jmbach said:


> My understanding is that they supersize two different ways. MFSTools version is more flexible and survives repeated copying / expansion.


Ah, good. I should be more trusting.


----------



## crunchymusic

dougdingle said:


> That's what I said about available space when I went from dual 1.2 meg floppies to my first 13 megabyte hard drive...


Yeah I remember my first 250 gb hard drive too.

We're still running strong and nowhere close to full. This forum ROCKS!


----------



## crunchymusic

dougdingle said:


> That's what I said about available space when I went from dual 1.2 meg floppies to my first 13 megabyte hard drive...


Oh and what's a floppy?


----------



## ggieseke

crunchymusic said:


> Oh and what's a floppy?


I still remember using 8" 360KB floppies on a Sperry mainframe. Those things REALLY lived up to their name.


----------



## hoopsbwc34

Anyone have an image with the latest version of 11n for a 652?


----------



## HerronScott

I've been holding off making one post-Rovi update until the latest MPEG4 fix rolled out but ours is still at 11.0n.H1.

Scott


----------



## Paw Paw

HerronScott said:


> I've been holding off making one post-Rovi update until the latest MPEG4 fix rolled out but ours is still at 11.0n.H1.
> 
> Scott


The latest update (K1) just fixes an issue with Comcast customers that are using a Technicolor (Cisco or Scientific Atlanta) CableCard. Unless you are in that group it would have no impact on you.


----------



## HerronScott

Paw Paw said:


> The latest update (K1) just fixes an issue with Comcast customers that are using a Technicolor (Cisco or Scientific Atlanta) CableCard. Unless you are in that group it would have no impact on you.


We are in that group but our franchise hasn't moved to MPEG4 yet.

Scott


----------



## Spl7

I'm getting very erratic results. I've 2 TiVo HDs (651260) that I've successfully upgraded before with 1TB drives. I've been trying now to upgrade one with a 2TB drive and I'm going nuts with erratic results. I'm using WinMFS to do the dirty work and the problem is that when it reboots, it *sometimes* gets stuck at "Welcome. Powering Up" and I have to pull the power, let it rest, plug it in. Repeat ad nauseum until for some reason it actually boots. The unit will work for a few days until for some reason it reboots and then gets stuck at "Welcome"

My environ: Windows Vista laptop, USB/sata adaptor, WD20EZRX drive.
I reinstalled the original 160GB drive (which passes SMART testing), let the software upgrade happen so its running 11.0n.H1-01-2-652.
Tested and Zeroed out the new drive.
Using WinMFS backed up the original, restored it setting swap to 1000. it completed, I did a supersize then an ADD.

From what I read by Unitron this should totally work, but I get that erratic behavior.

Along the way, I thought it might be because it got confused due to the new drive and all the program info. So I went back to the original 160, got it back down to guided setup mode, and was using this "virgin" original as I've been trying all sorts of rebuilds to get it to work.

No bulging caps. To be sure, I swapped the PS with another TiVo HD. Thoughts? Its been weeks of me trying various things including limiting the new drive to 1TB, copying the original, installing, using it for awhile, then ADDing the additional space.

Should I take a look at MFS tools using LINUX instead?


----------



## HerronScott

Spl7 said:


> I'm getting very erratic results. I've 2 TiVo HDs (651260) that I've successfully upgraded before with 1TB drives. I've been trying now to upgrade one with a 2TB drive and I'm going nuts with erratic results. I'm using WinMFS to do the dirty work and the problem is that when it reboots, it *sometimes* gets stuck at "Welcome. Powering Up" and I have to pull the power, let it rest, plug it in. Repeat ad nauseum until for some reason it actually boots. The unit will work for a few days until for some reason it reboots and then gets stuck at "Welcome"


You didn't mention the drive that you are using? This sounds like the issue with non-AV WD drives and you need to disable Intellipark using the WDIDLE3 utility.

WD10EURX and Intellipark

Scott


----------



## ThAbtO

HerronScott said:


> You didn't mention the drive that you are using? This sounds like the issue with non-AV WD drives and you need to disable Intellipark using the WDIDLE3 utility.
> 
> WD10EURX and Intellipark
> 
> Scott


He did, the second paragraph said WD20EZRX.


----------



## HerronScott

ThAbtO said:


> He did, the second paragraph said WD20EZRX.


Oops missed that!

Scott


----------



## jmbach

Spl7 said:


> I'm getting very erratic results. I've 2 TiVo HDs (651260) that I've successfully upgraded before with 1TB drives. I've been trying now to upgrade one with a 2TB drive and I'm going nuts with erratic results. I'm using WinMFS to do the dirty work and the problem is that when it reboots, it *sometimes* gets stuck at "Welcome. Powering Up" and I have to pull the power, let it rest, plug it in. Repeat ad nauseum until for some reason it actually boots. The unit will work for a few days until for some reason it reboots and then gets stuck at "Welcome"
> 
> My environ: Windows Vista laptop, USB/sata adaptor, WD20EZRX drive.
> I reinstalled the original 160GB drive (which passes SMART testing), let the software upgrade happen so its running 11.0n.H1-01-2-652.
> Tested and Zeroed out the new drive.
> Using WinMFS backed up the original, restored it setting swap to 1000. it completed, I did a supersize then an ADD.
> 
> From what I read by Unitron this should totally work, but I get that erratic behavior.
> 
> Along the way, I thought it might be because it got confused due to the new drive and all the program info. So I went back to the original 160, got it back down to guided setup mode, and was using this "virgin" original as I've been trying all sorts of rebuilds to get it to work.
> 
> No bulging caps. To be sure, I swapped the PS with another TiVo HD. Thoughts? Its been weeks of me trying various things including limiting the new drive to 1TB, copying the original, installing, using it for awhile, then ADDing the additional space.
> 
> Should I take a look at MFS tools using LINUX instead?


You could look at MFSTools 3.2 and see if that will work. There are several boot screens the TiVo goes through before it finally boots up. Which screen is it sticking on?


----------



## Spl7

HerronScott said:


> You didn't mention the drive that you are using? This sounds like the issue with non-AV WD drives and you need to disable Intellipark using the WDIDLE3 utility.
> 
> WD10EURX and Intellipark
> 
> Scott


Thanks for this. I found that using the USB/Sata connector really hobbles a lot of the low level drive functionality. I had tried to use WDIDLE3 before but it failed saying it didn't see the drive so I didn't really pursue it. But since I'm also running Ubuntu, I downloaded idle3ctl for linux and that pgm worked.

I found idlectl3 -g returned 80 seconds as the value; I set it up to 255 and we'll see.

Thanks guys. FYI, I also saw a thing saying that the lithium battery may be dead; it still measures 3.03 volts, and for some reason every time I've pulled the battery, it boots all the way (though it needs to do a full program download again).

Fingers crossed.


----------



## HerronScott

Spl7 said:


> Thanks for this. I found that using the USB/Sata connector really hobbles a lot of the low level drive functionality. I had tried to use WDIDLE3 before but it failed saying it didn't see the drive so I didn't really pursue it. But since I'm also running Ubuntu, I downloaded idle3ctl for linux and that pgm worked.
> 
> I found idlectl3 -g returned 80 seconds as the value; I set it up to 255 and we'll see.
> 
> Thanks guys. FYI, I also saw a thing saying that the lithium battery may be dead; it still measures 3.03 volts, and for some reason every time I've pulled the battery, it boots all the way (though it needs to do a full program download again).
> 
> Fingers crossed.


From what I recall, the default was 8 seconds and not 80 and many people would change that to 300 seconds rather than disabling it (AV drives generally had it disabled by default).

OK found a MAN page for idle3ctl and 80 would be 8 seconds while 255 would be 7,650 seconds.

set idle3 timer raw value. Value must be an integer between 1 and 255. The idle3 timer is set in 0.1s for the 1-128 range, and in 30s for the 129-255 range.

Scott


----------



## Spl7

HerronScott said:


> From what I recall, the default was 8 seconds and not 80 and many people would change that to 300 seconds rather than disabling it (AV drives generally had it disabled by default).
> 
> OK found a MAN page for idle3ctl and 80 would be 8 seconds while 255 would be 7,650 seconds.
> 
> set idle3 timer raw value. Value must be an integer between 1 and 255. The idle3 timer is set in 0.1s for the 1-128 range, and in 30s for the 129-255 range.
> 
> Scott


Thanks. I didn't see the man page; i just did a -h to get usage and went from there. Mea culpa. I did a -g and got 80 and figured that meant 80 seconds. But 8.0 seconds makes a lot more sense.

So after reading it all, it wasn't clear to me how to set the desired 300 seconds, or to disable the timer. Got off my ass and Used the Force, I Read the Source. 

-s 0 will set the timer to 0 (and disable it).
-s n, where 1 < n <=128 will set it to n*.10 ms
-s N, where 128 < N <= 255 will set it to (N-128)*30 seconds
So to get the desired 300 seconds, "idle3ctl -s138 /dev/yourDevGoesHere"

Going to do that. FYI, I used the 255 all last night and it worked. Did the "tivo restart" option 4 times to reboot, and each time it worked perfectly. Thanks again


----------



## HerronScott

Spl7 said:


> Thanks. I didn't see the man page; i just did a -h to get usage and went from there. Mea culpa. I did a -g and got 80 and figured that meant 80 seconds. But 8.0 seconds makes a lot more sense.
> 
> So after reading it all, it wasn't clear to me how to set the desired 300 seconds, or to disable the timer. Got off my ass and Used the Force, I Read the Source.
> 
> -s 0 will set the timer to 0 (and disable it).
> -s n, where 1 < n <=128 will set it to n*.10 ms
> -s N, where 128 < N <= 255 will set it to (N-128)*30 seconds
> So to get the desired 300 seconds, "idle3ctl -s138 /dev/yourDevGoesHere"
> 
> Going to do that. FYI, I used the 255 all last night and it worked. Did the "tivo restart" option 4 times to reboot, and each time it worked perfectly. Thanks again


Not sure if you really need to change it at all since AV-GP drives have it totally disabled. I missed the (N-128) part in the MAN page I looked at and thought it was just N*30 seconds.

Scott


----------



## Spl7

HerronScott said:


> Not sure if you really need to change it at all since AV-GP drives have it totally disabled. I missed the (N-128) part in the MAN page I looked at and thought it was just N*30 seconds.
> 
> Scott


Nope, the man page didn't say it, but the source code does. It writes a single bite as a parameter to change the drive's idle value and the only way to get 300 seconds is with the calculation of (N-128)*30

As for the Drive not needing it, well all I can say is now my 651260 is finally chugging along happily after I set the value to 300.


----------



## lpwcomp

HerronScott said:


> Not sure if you really need to change it at all since AV-GP drives have it totally disabled. I missed the (N-128) part in the MAN page I looked at and thought it was just N*30 seconds.
> 
> Scott


A WD20EZRX *isn't* an AV-GP drive.


----------



## HerronScott

lpwcomp said:


> A WD20EZRX *isn't* an AV-GP drive.


Right, which was why I pointed him to disabling Intellipark to solve his problem. 

My point was that setting it to a very high value shouldn't be a problem versus setting it back down to 300 seconds *since* AV-GP drives have it totally disabled.

Scott


----------



## HerronScott

Spl7 said:


> Nope, the man page didn't say it, but the source code does. It writes a single bite as a parameter to change the drive's idle value and the only way to get 300 seconds is with the calculation of (N-128)*30
> 
> As for the Drive not needing it, well all I can say is now my 651260 is finally chugging along happily after I set the value to 300.


Sorry apparently I wasn't clear, I meant you could have left it set to whatever 255 works out to be in seconds (3810?) and I don't think it really needs to be 300 seconds specifically since the AV-GP drive has it totally disabled.

Scott


----------



## videobruce

I cheated and used WinMFS to copy a 652 image to a 1TB drive. It's only showing 908 hrs for 'DTV' recording (MFSTool shows 1181hrs). It appears I was successful doing a "software update" when I ran GS using 00000 for the zip code.
I did check supersize. I can't see to find any notes I had for the steps to enlarge this to fill the entire 1TB, nor can I find where it is here (with everything spread over so many threads. i know this is missing additional partition(s) from what I remember from some years ago.

Using MFSTool, what would the next command line(s) be?


----------



## ThAbtO

videobruce said:


> I cheated and used WinMFS to copy a 652 image to a 1TB drive. It's only showing 908 hrs for 'DTV' recording (MFSTool shows 1181hrs). It appears I was successful doing a "software update" when I ran GS using 00000 for the zip code.
> I did check supersize. I can't see to find any notes I had for the steps to enlarge this to fill the entire 1TB, nor can I find where it is here (with everything spread over so many threads. i know this is missing additional partition(s) from what I remember from some years ago.
> 
> Using MFSTool, what would the next command line(s) be?
> 
> View attachment 27907


Its called "MFSAdd" under the same menu you find SuperSize.


----------



## videobruce

Saw that, tried that twice, no results. Message was; "Nothing to add".


----------



## ThAbtO

videobruce said:


> Saw that, tried that twice, no results. Message was; "Nothing to add".


The problem may be it can only be "expanded" just once. If that image was expanded before, you need to use one that hasn't been expanded.


----------



## jmbach

videobruce said:


> Saw that, tried that twice, no results. Message was; "Nothing to add".


You have reached the maximum number of partitions an internal drive can have. You can expand the image more but with an external drive.

I would recommend copying from the source drive to the new drive using MFSTools 3.2 using the command mfstool copy -ai /dev/sdX /dev/sdY. Replacing X and Y with the appropriate letter assigned to the drive. It will copy and expand at the same time.


----------



## videobruce

ThAbtO said:


> The problem may be it can only be "expanded" just once. If that image was expanded before, you need to use one that hasn't been expanded.


According to the summary I posted above, it *can* be expanded *three* more times.

The original 160GB drive software is corrupted, due to all the S/W versions that were apparently added at once. Of course if there was the ability to manually update one at a time instead of their 'automatic' process, I'm sure it wouldn't of gotten that way.
I do have a few 'images' I found in my travels, which is where the 1TB drive got it's from. I really don't want to go thru that annoyance of another software update which I assume was successful though I haven't gotten past GS yet (purposely).

*jmbach;*
Using MFS Tool instead of WinMFS, what would be the command line to add what appears to be missing partitions to expand this? Isn't that the real problem, I do remember that being the issues a few years ago, but I can't find where it was discussed?
What would the command line be for restoring the drive from a file instead of using WinMFS?


----------



## HerronScott

videobruce said:


> According to the summary I posted above, it *can* be expanded *three* more times.
> 
> The original 160GB drive software is corrupted, due to all the S/W versions that were apparently added at once. Of course if there was the ability to manually update one at a time instead of their 'automatic' process, I'm sure it wouldn't of gotten that way.
> I do have a few 'images' I found in my travels, which is where the 1TB drive got it's from. I really don't want to go thru that annoyance of another software update which I assume was successful though I haven't gotten past GS yet (purposely).
> 
> *jmbach;*
> Using MFS Tool instead of WinMFS, what would be the command line to add what appears to be missing partitions to expand this? Isn't that the real problem, I do remember that being the issues a few years ago, but I can't find where it was discussed?
> What would the command line be for restoring the drive from a file instead of using WinMFS?


I'm sure jmbach will respond with the real technical details, but I thought 15 was the maximum number of partitions that it will support (I think you can add a 16th but the MFS ones are added in pairs) so you can't add another pair. But we upgraded our original S3 OLED TiVo's from the original 250GB to 1TB after a year or so with WinMFS and then 6 years later upgraded from the 1TB drive to a 2TB drive also using WinMFS and it just increased the size of the 15th partition.

I just looked and the name of the 15th partition changed from "MFS Media by Winmfs" on the 1TB drives to "MFS Expanded by Winmfs" on the 2TB drives (size changed from 698GB to 1.6GB on an S3 OLED). I guess the question is why didn't Winmfs expand the partition size for you?

Scott


----------



## videobruce

Easier to read here:

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
*15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 782.5G)*

Total SA SD Hours: 1040 Total DTV SD Hours: 908 100 % Free
Software: 11.0m-01-2-652 Tivo Model: TCD652160


----------



## jmbach

videobruce said:


> Easier to read here:
> 
> Partition Maps
> #: type name length base ( size )
> 1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
> 2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 4 Ext2 Root 1 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
> 6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
> 7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
> 9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
> 10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 65.6G)
> 12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
> 13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 82.0G)
> 14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
> *15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 782.5G)*
> 
> Total SA SD Hours: 1040 Total DTV SD Hours: 908 100 % Free
> Software: 11.0m-01-2-652 Tivo Model: TCD652160


It looks like WinMFS expanded the last partition so that about 1TB is used for recordings.


----------



## videobruce

Looks like you are right. I was mixing up hours & MB's.  I checked the TiVo System Info and it does report 157 hrs.
BUT, 
the TSN is blank. Does that have anything to do with the 00000 zip code entered??


----------



## jmbach

jmbach said:


> It looks like WinMFS expanded the last partition so that about 1TB is used for recordings.


It has to do with the image coming from another unit. You need to do a clear and delete everything to get the TSN to appear. It also may require a call to the TiVo servers.
(Sometimes have to do the cd&e twice for 5he TSN to appear)


----------



## videobruce

Isn't the TSN burned into a chip on the main board?
More nonsense. 

Right now, it's in the "Please wait" endless stage due to Rovi's crap data and this having issues with it. It wasn't a problem with the 00000 zip where only those west coast stations got downloaded, but with a actual zip code complete with the duplicate channel listings it's Twilight Zone time.


----------



## jmbach

videobruce said:


> Isn't the TSN burned into a chip on the main board?
> More nonsense.
> 
> Right now, it's in the "Please wait" endless stage due to Rovi's crap data and this having issues with it. It wasn't a problem with the 00000 zip where only those west coast stations got downloaded, but with a actual zip code complete with the duplicate channel listings it's Twilight Zone time.


The TSN is burned into the chip but until the TSN of the image matches the chip on the unit the TiVo's function is impaired. Running the cd&e marries that image to the TSN on the chip.


----------



## videobruce

Thanks jmbach. Like I said; more nonsense.

The "impairment" seems to be related to Rovi's guide data. I was able to 'glide' thru the GS when I used a blank zipcode in OTA only. Now, it hangs after the Setup Info step as it did before. Even after two well over EIGHT hour 'waits', it's still stuck.


----------



## unitron

Spl7 said:


> Thanks for this. I found that using the USB/Sata connector really hobbles a lot of the low level drive functionality. I had tried to use WDIDLE3 before but it failed saying it didn't see the drive so I didn't really pursue it. But since I'm also running Ubuntu, I downloaded idle3ctl for linux and that pgm worked.
> 
> I found idlectl3 -g returned 80 seconds as the value; I set it up to 255 and we'll see.
> 
> Thanks guys. FYI, I also saw a thing saying that the lithium battery may be dead; it still measures 3.03 volts, and for some reason every time I've pulled the battery, it boots all the way (though it needs to do a full program download again).
> 
> Fingers crossed.


If you don't remember last time you replaced a particular 2032 coin cell in a particular device, go ahead and replace it, and this time use a Sharpie to write the replacement date on the new battery.

A voltmeter isn't necessarily going to give you useful info on one of those batteries, you need to use a battery tester that puts it under load.


----------



## unitron

Spl7 said:


> Thanks. I didn't see the man page; i just did a -h to get usage and went from there. Mea culpa. I did a -g and got 80 and figured that meant 80 seconds. But 8.0 seconds makes a lot more sense.
> 
> So after reading it all, it wasn't clear to me how to set the desired 300 seconds, or to disable the timer. Got off my ass and Used the Force, I Read the Source.
> 
> -s 0 will set the timer to 0 (and disable it).
> -s n, where 1 < n <=128 will set it to n*.10 ms
> -s N, where 128 < N <= 255 will set it to (N-128)*30 seconds
> So to get the desired 300 seconds, "idle3ctl -s138 /dev/yourDevGoesHere"
> 
> Going to do that. FYI, I used the 255 all last night and it worked. Did the "tivo restart" option 4 times to reboot, and each time it worked perfectly. Thanks again


Pretty sure that

-s n, where 1 < n <=128 will set it to n*.10 ms

should actually read

"...will set it to n*.10s"


----------



## crunchymusic

crunchymusic said:


> Yeah I remember my first 250 gb hard drive too.
> 
> We're still running strong and nowhere close to full. This forum ROCKS!


Just came back to add that my Netflix connection that was gone (I had read that it happens with expansion) suddenly started working again. After a good couple months. And I am about to do another expansion on my backup series 3.


----------



## ncbill

Has anyone used the 3TB Seagate SV35 or SkyHawk PVR drives?

Looking to upgrade my Roamio OTA.


----------



## Spl7

unitron said:


> Pretty sure that
> 
> -s n, where 1 < n <=128 will set it to n*.10 ms
> 
> should actually read
> 
> "...will set it to n*.10s"


As I said, I looked at the source code. It sends a single byte as the value. There is NO way to get 300 seconds using n*0.10 ms. That would require sending a value of 3000. I've been using "idle3ctl -s138" and it all works.

As for replacing the button battery, thanks! I had done that already.


----------



## ccrider2

Can Someone set me straight?
Bought a TiVo Series3 TCD648250B circa 2008, and soon after I fell in love with it. I upped the 3yr deal to a lifetime. And upgraded to a 1TB drive. Well, that drive might be on it's last leg; getting some pauses, as if the operator was pausing it (no such pause was indicated). Checked and replaced 2 caps; didn't help. Transferring recordings to an external USB on the computer, got several reboots whenever the TiVo would start to record. I stopped all recording, cleared the Todo List, finished the transfers fine.
Thought about doing the rest of the Cap's, but figured the drive might be the issue.
Running WinMFS for about 3hrs, seems stuck at 3:xx sec eta (2 to 3 blocks on the status bar to go). perhaps I'm just being impatient. 

In the back of my mind I'm thinking; Shouldn't I be using the original drive to do this, instead of the already upgraded 1TB drive as the source???
What about it?
Which drive should I be using? Original or the old, previously upgraded drive?
Or
Does it matter?
Hopefully the later will work, as all my Passes, Wishlist's and such would be history.

Thanks Much for any advice,
Chris


----------



## ThAbtO

Any errors or issues that is on the drive can be copied over to the new drive and cause the same (or more) issues whereas from the original working drive/image would have little to no issues. Also, the drive space can only be expanded once mostly. The power supply can add issues to the hard drive as well.


----------



## HerronScott

Did you try running the manufacturer drive tests on the drive to see if they showed any bad sectors? I can't recall how long it took the last time that moved from 1TB drives to 2TB drives on ours though.

Regarding power supply caps, these are the 11 that I've replaced in our 2 S3 OLED TiVo's (same model as yours).

Tivo Series 3 - Bad capacitors in power supply

Scott


----------



## ccrider2

ThAbtO said:


> Any errors or issues that is on the drive can be copied over to the new drive and cause the same (or more) issues whereas from the original working drive/image would have little to no issues. Also, the drive space can only be expanded once mostly. The power supply can add issues to the hard drive as well.


The 'one-shot' on expanding, was deep in the crevasses of my mind.  Thanks for the Gray-matter jog...
Waiting on a free weekend to complete the 'Cap-Job'. For now, seems to be running well, still have some Season Pass issues to sort through.

Thanks for the words and time!



HerronScott said:


> Did you try running the manufacturer drive tests on the drive to see if they showed any bad sectors? I can't recall how long it took the last time that moved from 1TB drives to 2TB drives on ours though.
> 
> Regarding power supply caps, these are the 11 that I've replaced in our 2 S3 OLED TiVo's (same model as yours).
> 
> Tivo Series 3 - Bad capacitors in power supply
> 
> Scott


The 1TB drive came off the shelf, I'm sure it had been tested in the past; It went well after using the Original Drive as the Source. So I'm guessing, as 'ThAbtO' pointed out, expanding an already expanded drive is a NO-NO.
I've got all the Cap's to do the job proper; .....some day. 

Thanks Much for helping-out!


----------



## HerronScott

ccrider2 said:


> The 1TB drive came off the shelf, I'm sure it had been tested in the past; It went well after using the Original Drive as the Source. So I'm guessing, as 'ThAbtO' pointed out, expanding an already expanded drive is a NO-NO.


Well I was referring to running the tests on the drive that came out of the TiVo and not the replacement drive to see if it is showing any signs of failure.

And I had no issues using expanding a drive a second time as it increased the size of the existing last pair versus adding another pair.

Scott


----------



## jmbach

ccrider2 said:


> The 'one-shot' on expanding, was deep in the crevasses of my mind.  Thanks for the Gray-matter jog...
> Waiting on a free weekend to complete the 'Cap-Job'. For now, seems to be running well, still have some Season Pass issues to sort through.
> 
> Thanks for the words and time!
> 
> The 1TB drive came off the shelf, I'm sure it had been tested in the past; It went well after using the Original Drive as the Source. So I'm guessing, as 'ThAbtO' pointed out, expanding an already expanded drive is a NO-NO.
> I've got all the Cap's to do the job proper; .....some day.
> 
> Thanks Much for helping-out!


If you copy the drive using MFSTools 3.2, it will copy and expand at the same time. It expands differently than other methods in that it expands the two current media zones to use the whole drive and then copies everything from the original ( along with any expansion) into those two media partitions. So you can essentially copy/expand indefinitely (at least until you hit the partition size cap for individual partitions which is 2TiB)


----------



## thomb

I've got 2 TivoHD units (with 1.5TB drives) that I'd like to replace before any problems surface. Its been a while since I replaced them...
What is the current recommended 2TB drive?


----------



## ThAbtO

thomb said:


> I've got 2 TivoHD units (with 1.5TB drives) that I'd like to replace before any problems surface. Its been a while since I replaced them...
> What is the current recommended 2TB drive?


WD Red WD20EFRX

What is the models of Tivo?


----------



## thomb

ThAbtO said:


> WD Red WD20EFRX
> 
> What is the models of Tivo?


Thanks. Both are TCD652160 on 11.0n.K1.


----------



## ThAbtO

thomb said:


> Thanks. Both are TCD652160 on 11.0n.K1.


Image is available if you needed, but it pre-Rovi and the Tivo should update itself.


----------



## thomb

ThAbtO said:


> Image is available if you needed, but it pre-Rovi and the Tivo should update itself.


Since my existing tivo drives are not giving me any issues, my plan is to use WinMFS to copy everything (recordings, tivo files, hacks) from the current 1.5TB drive to the new 2TB drive. Then put the old one away for backup.


----------



## ThAbtO

WinMFS would only expand once. You would only be using the 1.5TB instead of the full 2TB. Am told MFSTools 3.2 can expand more.


----------



## HerronScott

ThAbtO said:


> WinMFS would only expand once. You would only be using the 1.5TB instead of the full 2TB. Am told MFSTools 3.2 can expand more.


WinMFS let me migrate first to a 1TB drive and then later to a 2TB drive. It named partition 15 "Media by Winmfs" after the first move when it added the partition pair and then change it to "Expanded by Winmfs" after the second migration/expansion.

Scott


----------



## thomb

Trying to copy my drive using WinMFS and it recognizes the Tivo drive (1.5 TB) and the new 2TB. However it won't allow me to select a drive as a destination.
1) Hooked both up to internal sata connection 
2) Ran WinMFS as admin
3) file > select drive - selected both
4) tools > mfscopy
Both drives are listed in source but I'm unable to pick any for the destination. only option here is "none"
Any ideas?


----------



## ThAbtO

Think you are selecting both drives as the source not source and target.
Select source drive for "A" drive
target drive as "B", might also need to check box next to "B".
It says "B" is for adding a 2nd drive to Tivo, but does not say Target.


----------



## thomb

I fixed it by only selecting my tivo drive in step 3. In step 4 I was able to pick it as the source and the new drive in the destination - even though it wasn't selected in step 3.


----------



## thomb

My preventative maintenance project is over and was a resounding success. My story... 
I've had 2 lifetime TivoHD (TCD652160) units since 2007, both fully ummmm "altered". In other words they've got a lot of value - sentimental and a fair amount of dollar value (especially for 10 year old units). They've never had a problem, and I intend to keep it that way. I last upgraded the drives ~6 years ago, so they were overdue for replacing. 2-3 weeks ago I accepted the upgrade to 11.0n.K1 and reapplied my alterations.

I was browsing craigslist and bought 2 more TivoHD units (no subscriptions) for parts - $10 per unit, and the seller threw in a wireless Tivo adapter and a Series 2 Tivo. $20 well spent. I knew I could cannibalize the units and keep my workhorses alive. Tested both units Saturday and 
- Unit A works perfectly. No issues.
- Unit B powers up to the first screen "powering up" or whatever it says. After the 1st logo screen the screen goes blank and it never gets to the "Just a few more minutes" screen. I guess the power supply needs new capacitors even though they weren't bulging / leaking.
- Series 2 is still waiting for some attention. I don't know what I'm going to do with it yet.

That got me motivated to learn how to solder . Believe it or not my old tivos are still rocking their original power supplies with no bulging caps, so I never had to operate on them. Yesterday my order arrived with my replacement caps (for all 4 units), and soldering iron. I ham handed my way through replacing the caps on the "bad" power supply from Unit B and put it back in the tivo. Unfortunately the unit still doesn't get past the first screen and goes blank. I figure my carpet bombing soldering fried the power supply. So I swap power supplies with unit A & B and it turns out that the Tivo power supply is VERY forgiving to newbie solder-ers. The repaired PS works just fine in unit A. I also swapped drives and both of them are good. Now I figure Unit B has something wrong with the motherboard. Which is fine since the motherboard isn't a part that can be swapped into my working units anyway.

Next step was to give both units a new set of lungs before the old 1.5TB drives die. Last night / this morning I successfully copied both drives with WinMFS and replaced them with new 2TB substitutes. The 1.5TB drives will be retired to the cellar in case of emergency. And I've got 1.75 backup units I can utilize for parts.
Special thanks to ThAbtO, HerronScott, and Unitron (and everyone else here) for all of your help / excellent posts.


----------



## HerronScott

thomb said:


> My preventative maintenance project is over and was a resounding success. My story...


Glad to hear you were successful! And how come we don't see such great deals on old TiVo's around here! 

Scott


----------



## Spl7

Back again. Drive flaked after the apartment had a power failure, got totally stuck on "Almost there" msg. After futzing for a while, I thought I'd try winmfs to start over. I have a tcd651260 tbk image that I saved. its a 160gb image that I captured after I did an "erase all". So like usual, I do the restore, reboot, do guided setup. All goes well, but then says I need to do a System Update and reboot. 8-12 hours later, and it remains on the "Almost there" message.

So far, I've tried that "virgin" tbk, as well as one other I have squirreled away.
I've tried doing using only 160gb image, as well as restoring it, adding it up to 1TB, supersize, etc.
The caps seem OK (and I replaced the bulging ones years ago).
The disk battery has been replaced.
Did a full hard drive scan and it comes up fine.

Each time, it comes up and I set on that almost there message. Should I just wait longer? Try another tbk? Totally zero the drive out before starting the winmfs restore?


----------



## Wil

A bit off topic in that this is a question about a hard drive for out-of-Tivo storage of files moved from Tivos via kmttg, but there is hard drive knowledge here.

I've got some WD Red 6TB drives (Amazon White Label WL6000GSA6457 seems to be a scrubbed used WD Red). Looks like I need to use WD5741 rather than WDIDLE, but WD5741 is simply a switch on for 300 seconds as I understand it, no information gathering first about what the current setting is. I'd like not to use it at all if the setting is already 300 seconds. Will WDIDLE accurately report the setting on these drives, even though it is not recommended to actually change the setting?

IOW can I run WDIDLE first to check what the setting is, and if I get a report of, say, 8 seconds, then use WD5741 to actually change it to 300 if needed? And if it's already 300 just leave it alone?


----------



## ThAbtO

Wil said:


> A bit off topic in that this is a question about a hard drive for out-of-Tivo storage of files moved from Tivos via kmttg, but there is hard drive knowledge here.
> 
> I've got some WD Red 6TB drives (Amazon White Label WL6000GSA6457 seems to be a scrubbed used WD Red). Looks like I need to use WD5741 rather than WDIDLE, but WD5741 is simply a switch on for 300 seconds as I understand it, no information gathering first about what the current setting is. I'd like not to use it at all if the setting is already 300 seconds. Will WDIDLE accurately report the setting on these drives, even though it is not recommended to actually change the setting?
> 
> IOW can I run WDIDLE first to check what the setting is, and if I get a report of, say, 8 seconds, then use WD5741 to actually change it to 300 if needed? And if it's already 300 just leave it alone?


You do not need to do this on a WD Red. Anyways, WDIdle3 is used on a drive like a Green AV when its going to be used inside a Tivo.

Out of Tivo storage is simply like a PC formatted drive use to store all those shows. (.Tivo files are just encrypted (with MAK) mpeg2 video file)


----------



## Wil

ThAbtO said:


> You do not need to do this on a WD Red.


"Need"? No. But the loading is too great for my comfort at an 8 second setting for the continual back and forth traffic I'll have. Some of the Reds _have_ been set at 8 seconds, that's widely documented, and there's no telling how these particular WLs are set; I'd like to make sure they're at 300. WDIDLE does show them at 300, but since Western Digital says use WD5741 instead of WDIDLE I just want to make sure that WDIDLE _reads_ the status correctly.

Thanks anyway.

EDITED TO ADD: BTW these drives look like a pretty good value; first two I tried have passed a WD full surface test with no errors. Firmware is 82.00A82, not prehistoric. Likely these will either be OK or bad out of the gate so if you're willing to run the long test and exercise them early, you can save around $80 each. 1 year warranty.


----------



## ccrider2

Not sure if this is where I need to post this, but here goes;
I have a TiVo S3 TCD648250B that had the original drive replaced years ago out of caution, that replacement drive has now started having issues so I replaced it with a WD10EVVS - 63M5B0 Date 21 July 2009. The drive was purchased many 'moons' ago. I usually run drives through the M/F sw as soon as I get one, whether I put it in service on on a shelf, but I can't say that I've always done that. I started from an image from the original drive, it updated OK and everything is still running fine, but after turning off a noisy HEPA air filter, I noticed a strange 'percolating noise' such as a coffee pot sitting on the stove, just beginning to perk. This goes on continually with gaps of time and sometimes seems to quit. But it always re-starts at some point. .....A cascading bunch of 'head seeking' repeating over and over, before it pauses to resume a bit later.

Just wondering if this is normal and should I just get used to it? 
Or would one of the Kickstarts be advised?
Thanks Much,
Chris


----------



## HerronScott

ccrider2 said:


> I have a TiVo S3 TCD648250B that had the original drive replaced years ago out of caution, that replacement drive has now started having issues so I replaced it with a WD10EVVS - 63M5B0 Date 21 July 2009. The drive was purchased many 'moons' ago. I usually run drives through the M/F sw as soon as I get one, whether I put it in service on on a shelf, but I can't say that I've always done that. I started from an image from the original drive, it updated OK and everything is still running fine, but after turning off a noisy HEPA air filter, I noticed a strange 'percolating noise' such as a coffee pot sitting on the stove, just beginning to perk. This goes on continually with gaps of time and sometimes seems to quit. But it always re-starts at some point. .....A cascading bunch of 'head seeking' repeating over and over, before it pauses to resume a bit later.
> 
> Just wondering if this is normal and should I just get used to it?
> Or would one of the Kickstarts be advised?


So this was a new (old) drive that had never been used or it had been used (and if so for how long)? It doesn't sound normal to me if it's drive/head-seeking sounds and I'd pull it and run the WD tests against it.

Scott


----------



## ccrider2

HerronScott said:


> So this was a new (old) drive that had never been used or it had been used (and if so for how long)? It doesn't sound normal to me if it's drive/head-seeking sounds and I'd pull it and run the WD tests against it.
> 
> Scott


K...I'll pull it for testing.
Will WD Diagnostics trash the TiVo OS?
Will I need to redo the image?
Timing is important to curtail downtime to the weekend.

Thanks so Much,


----------



## darklyte

Any suggestions on the best circa 2017 model HD internal drives to use for S3 upgrades? 

Will any 1TB SATA HD designed for always on DVR/Security camera type function be decent like the Western Digital Purple "WD10PURX"?

For an S3 TCD648250B that has a volume issue when I change channels. the volume is often out of sync or stutters when a channel is changed until I hit rewind and then it will correct itself. Thinking a fresh HD might help that.


----------



## HerronScott

darklyte said:


> Any suggestions on the best circa 2017 model HD internal drives to use for S3 upgrades?
> 
> Will any 1TB SATA HD designed for always on DVR/Security camera type function be decent like the Western Digital Purple "WD10PURX"?
> 
> For an S3 TCD648250B that has a volume issue when I change channels. the volume is often out of sync or stutters when a channel is changed until I hit rewind and then it will correct itself. Thinking a fresh HD might help that.


Most people are indicating to avoid the Purple and stick with the Red series now so WD10EFRX although I would go for 2TB (WD20EFRX).

Scott


----------



## darklyte

Thanks Scott for confirming, much appreciated!

What's your guess on the volume issue when changing channels? Volume freezes/stutters until I rewind a second and then it corrects. 

BTW, just did my 2nd PSU cap upgrade using one of your old posts/guides so thanks again for that too!


----------



## HerronScott

darklyte said:


> Thanks Scott for confirming, much appreciated!
> 
> What's your guess on the volume issue when changing channels? Volume freezes/stutters until I rewind a second and then it corrects.
> 
> BTW, just did my 2nd PSU cap upgrade using one of your old posts/guides so thanks again for that too!


Glad the capacitor list helped. I'm not sure on your issue since it's just affecting volume and not the picture? You could pull the drive and run the manufacturer's test on it to see if it finds any issues.

Scott


----------



## darklyte

Thanks I'll likely just replace the old drive and put in a new one to go w the freshly capped PSU and hope that fixes it and keep my S3 alive for awhile... since i never get those special upgrade emails to transfer lifetime


----------



## ThAbtO

darklyte said:


> Thanks I'll likely just replace the old drive and put in a new one to go w the freshly capped PSU and hope that fixes it and keep my S3 alive for awhile... since i never get those special upgrade emails to transfer lifetime


Think you just missed one of those emails. It offers to transfer lifetime from a S3 to new Bolt.


----------



## ccrider2

HerronScott said:


> So this was a new (old) drive that had never been used or it had been used (and if so for how long)? It doesn't sound normal to me if it's drive/head-seeking sounds and I'd pull it and run the WD tests against it.
> 
> Scott


Thanks Scott,
Finally got the opportunity to pull the drive and test it; all looks good. Possibly it was just a noisy drive doing the TiVo's normal 'bit'???? While the testing was running, I reinstalled the original 250GB drive and let it update to the latest OS sw. It seems to be a bit noisy, but no 'percolator'. Pulled it, did a Winmfs copy to a different drive, a WD 2TB AV WD20EURS drive, installed and running great. I don't know what was up with that WD10EVVS, but the WD20EURS is smooooth.

Just wondering if this was my mistake...
I can't recall for sure, but I'm thinking years ago when I first upgraded to the now clearly failing 1TB drive, I was told to do the following:
1-Winmfs 'copy' the original drive to the new drive
2-install in Tivo & let it update the OS
3-pull it and run the Winmfs 'add'
4-reinstall back in TiVo

If that's the correct method for upgrading from 250GB (original OS) to 1 TB????
I probably goofed; thus the "coffee pot", (I skipped the OS update to let it support 1TB)
Just guessing though...

Anyway, everything is purring along fine now with 318 HD Hours.

Thanks So Much For Your Time,


----------



## Bryanmc

Are there any recommended drives that I can pick up locally, like at Fry's?


----------



## TwoPointOh

Last week I finally got around to imaging a 2TB drive to replace my original dead 160GB in my TivoHD 652160, and got to the guided setup process. I tried to complete the steps while I was waiting on the cablecard to show up for self-install. It failed to find any zip code I entered, and would not completed the GS. A few days later when my cablecard arrived, I went thru the activation process with my provider, and tried to complete the GS steps again. Still wouldn't accept any zip codes I've tried. At this point I've tried with/without cablecard, antenna only, and both, without success.

Is this because it is a pre-Rovi image? Is it because it has not successfully married the drive to the TSN? Is there anything that will trigger it to download a post-Rovi update? Will it update while stuck in GS?

Thanks in advance for any pearls of wisdom shared.


----------



## jmbach

How old is the image? Do you know what version OS you have. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## ThAbtO

it is 11.0m, so yes, pre-Rovi. It would need to get an update to 11.0n.H1/K1.

Try a zip 00000 until it gets updated.


----------



## TwoPointOh

ThAbtO said:


> it is 11.0m, so yes, pre-Rovi. It would need to get an update to 11.0n.H1/K1.
> 
> Try a zip 00000 until it gets updated.


I have tried 00000 along with my local and surrounding zips. "No information exists about antenna channels for zip code 00000"

Is there a sequence of steps using the 00000 zip code that would eventually grab this update? I think I scrolled by a post mentioning something, but haven't stumbled back down the right rabbit hole to find it again. Cold boot, zip 00000 for antenna setup, and then let it sit?

Thanks again!


----------



## videojanitor

I'm in the same boat. Had to replace a failed drive, but my image was old. I got through Guided Setup using the 00000 zip code -- now waiting for it to pick up the updated software. Not sure how long this will take -- been waiting for three days so far.


----------



## jmbach

Have you been forcing connections. Usually about 3 to 5 will get the update.


----------



## videojanitor

Yes I have. Probably 5-10 times each day. Waiting to see "pending restart" -- nothing yet.


----------



## jmbach

Can you check to see if the TiVo required ports are open on your network.


----------



## videojanitor

Can you tell me which ports I should check? I have a Premiere and a Roamio on the same network -- those are working fine. The S3 was working fine too, until I changed the drive.


----------



## jmbach

videojanitor said:


> Can you tell me which ports I should check? I have a Premiere and a Roamio on the same network -- those are working fine. The S3 was working fine too, until I changed the drive.


Under networking in the TiVo menu there is a diagnostic section. If everything passes you should be OK.


----------



## videojanitor

Everything under networking looks good. When I go through the process of forcing a connection, it behaves as it should -- goes through the process and doesn't throw any errors. I guess I just need to be patient. It'll update eventually.


----------



## videojanitor

My patience wore out. I used Spinrite to see if I could repair my original drive to the point where I could back it up -- it worked. Made an image and restored it to new drive. All is now working normally.


----------



## jmbach

videojanitor said:


> My patience wore out. I used Spinrite to see if I could repair my original drive to the point where I could back it up -- it worked. Made an image and restored it to new drive. All is now working normally.


That is excellent. I am glad it worked for you. I would make a truncated backup with DvrBARS and WinMFS/MFSTools and keep it in a safe place.


----------



## videojanitor

Thanks for the tips. I used WinMFS for this operation today -- making a truncated backup from the old drive, restoring to the new. I also have a copy of MFSTools. Haven't heard of DvrBARS though -- is that a newer, preferred utility?


----------



## jmbach

videojanitor said:


> Thanks for the tips. I used WinMFS for this operation today -- making a truncated backup from the old drive, restoring to the new. I also have a copy of MFSTools. Haven't heard of DvrBARS though -- is that a newer, preferred utility?


It is a Windows utility. It makes a virtual drive copy if the TiVo image.


----------



## ThAbtO

jmbach said:


> That is excellent. I am glad it worked for you. I would make a truncated backup with DvrBARS and WinMFS/MFSTools and keep it in a safe place.


WinMFS does not work on Premiere and newer Tivos.


----------



## jmbach

ThAbtO said:


> WinMFS does not work on Premiere and newer Tivos.


That is true. He had previously indicated he was working on an S3


----------



## skasol

My original Tivo Hd finally died. I have a really good price for subscription and I would like to fix it myself. It looks like the hard drive has failed. I read the upgrade instructions but the Tivo software from instant cake link doesn’t work. Any other way for me to get this software? Thank you for any help.


----------



## HerronScott

skasol said:


> My original Tivo Hd finally died. I have a really good price for subscription and I would like to fix it myself. It looks like the hard drive has failed. I read the upgrade instructions but the Tivo software from instant cake link doesn't work. Any other way for me to get this software? Thank you for any help.


PM sent with HD image.

Scott


----------



## ThAbtO

skasol said:


> My original Tivo Hd finally died. I have a really good price for subscription and I would like to fix it myself. It looks like the hard drive has failed. I read the upgrade instructions but the Tivo software from instant cake link doesn't work. Any other way for me to get this software? Thank you for any help.


You need to specify the exact model. Images are for a specific model.


----------



## skasol

HerronScott said:


> PM sent with HD image.
> 
> Scott


Really appreciate this.


----------



## skasol

ThAbtO said:


> You need to specify the exact model. Images are for a specific model.


I will take a picture of it once I get home from work. Thank you both for your immediate support.


----------



## ThAbtO

skasol said:


> I will take a picture of it once I get home from work. Thank you both for your immediate support.


Would need to know the exact model number. Its listed on the label on the back, starting with TCD, or in System Information screen, the first 3 numbers of the Tivo Service number.


----------



## unitron

skasol said:


> My original Tivo Hd finally died. I have a really good price for subscription and I would like to fix it myself. It looks like the hard drive has failed. I read the upgrade instructions but the Tivo software from instant cake link doesn't work. Any other way for me to get this software? Thank you for any help.


If you mean you have a TiVo HD (and not an HD XL, which looks exactly the same except for the letters XL added on the front right after the HD), then you have a TCD652160. If your unit does say HD XL, then you have a TCD658000.

But if the front has a clock display, and buttons around a circle, then you have a TCD6438250B.

Those are the three Series 3 models.

But if you meant that your original hard drive finally died, then there are many more possibilities and the model number is needed.


----------



## skasol

ThAbtO said:


> You need to specify the exact model. Images are for a specific model.


























Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## skasol

ThAbtO said:


> Would need to know the exact model number. Its listed on the label on the back, starting with TCD, or in System Information screen, the first 3 numbers of the Tivo Service number.


The Tivo doesn't display anything anymore on the screen and it makes this noise. It looked like the hard drive was about to give out prior to that. There's was a lot of pixilation and freezing. Eventually the Tivo rebooted and it got stuck on the reboot screen and now nothing. It turns on but nothing else.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ThAbtO

skasol said:


> The Tivo doesn't display anything anymore on the screen and it makes this noise. It looked like the hard drive was about to give out prior to that. There's was a lot of pixilation and freezing. Eventually the Tivo rebooted and it got stuck on the reboot screen and now nothing. It turns on but nothing else.


An image was sent by Scott, and you should know that the series also has problems with the power supply. The capacitors there would most likely need to be replaced.


----------



## skasol

ThAbtO said:


> An image was sent by Scott, and you should know that the series also has problems with the power supply. The capacitors there would most likely need to be replaced.


Thank you, that may be more than I can handle with capacitors.


----------



## Teeps

skasol said:


> Thank you, that may be more than I can handle with capacitors.


Google appliance or electronics repair with your area code.
There is bound to be someone in your area that can fix the power supply.

Also, please include city and state in your profile.


----------



## skasol

Teeps said:


> Google appliance or electronics repair with your area code.
> There is bound to be someone in your area that can fix the power supply.
> 
> Also, please include city and state in your profile.


Thanks. I will do so.


----------



## Teeps

skasol said:


> Thanks. I will do so.


I should have said ZIP code


----------



## skasol

Teeps said:


> I should have said ZIP code


Thank you everyone for your help. I ended up replacing that Tivo with a Roamio pro lifetime for $400 instead of fixing my old box and paying my monthly fee. Loving the Roamio and the speed of the menu, now to figure out why the video quality isn't as good. Thank you.


----------



## cardigans1

Is there a current way to plug in a drive to expanse capacity on a S3 without messing with the internal drive


----------



## jmbach

cardigans1 said:


> Is there a current way to plug in a drive to expanse capacity on a S3 without messing with the internal drive


Only if you a certified TiVo WD extender drive.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Jackiemac22

Is there any chance you would know the answer to this .
I have a HD TiVo, the hard drive is making noise and it causes the machine to reboot periodically, I bought a new WD 2T euro
I down loaded the live CD burnt it it works,
But when I put in :
backup_-/qtao_-_/dev/sdc_|_restore_-s_128_-xzpi_-_/sdb it fails
But when I put in:
backup_-f_-9999_-qso_-_/Dev/sdc_|_restore_-s_128_-xzpi_-_/Dev/sdb. I goes through the restore process then says not enough space to expand and finishes, I put it in the machine and it says Welcome Starting up. Then just keeps rebooting.
Any help would be greatly appreciated
Thanks in advance
Jack



unitron said:


> If you mean you have a TiVo HD (and not an HD XL, which looks exactly the same except for the letters XL added on the front right after the HD), then you have a TCD652160. If your unit does say HD XL, then you have a TCD658000.
> 
> But if the front has a clock display, and buttons around a circle, then you have a TCD6438250B.
> 
> Those are the three Series 3 models.
> 
> But if you meant that your original hard drive finally died, then there are many more possibilities and the model number is needed.


----------



## Jackiemac22

The under scores are to represent the spaces I put in the line of code here
I did not put them in the actual code



Jackiemac22 said:


> Is there any chance you would know the answer to this .
> I have a HD TiVo, the hard drive is making noise and it causes the machine to reboot periodically, I bought a new WD 3T euro
> I down loaded the live CD burnt it it works,
> But when I put in :
> backup_-/qtao_-_/Dev/sdc_|_restore_-s_128_-xzpi_-_/sdb it fails
> But when I put in:
> backup_-f_-9999_-qso_-_/Dev/sdc_|_restore_-s_128_-xzpi_-_/Dev/sdb. I goes through the restore process then says not enough space to expand and finishes, I put it in the machine and it says Welcome Starting up. Then just keeps rebooting.
> Any help would be greatly appreciated
> Thanks in advance
> Jack


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Jackiemac22 said:


> The under scores are to represent the spaces I put in the line of code here
> I did not put them in the actual code


What about "dev". That needs to be lowercase, and you show it capitalized. "/Dev" would be a new location on the main partition "/", what you want is /dev/sdx.


----------



## jmbach

Jackiemac22 said:


> Is there any chance you would know the answer to this .
> I have a HD TiVo, the hard drive is making noise and it causes the machine to reboot periodically, I bought a new WD 3T euro
> I down loaded the live CD burnt it it works,
> But when I put in :
> backup_-/qtao_-_/Dev/sdc_|_restore_-s_128_-xzpi_-_/sdb it fails
> But when I put in:
> backup_-f_-9999_-qso_-_/Dev/sdc_|_restore_-s_128_-xzpi_-_/Dev/sdb. I goes through the restore process then says not enough space to expand and finishes, I put it in the machine and it says Welcome Starting up. Then just keeps rebooting.
> Any help would be greatly appreciated
> Thanks in advance
> Jack


One issue is that you are using a 3TB drive in a series 3 unit. The OS does not support any drive over 2TB as far as I know. Last time I tested for greater than 2TB capability was around 2012/2013. 
I would try downloading MFSTools 3.2 and use that to do what you are attempting.


----------



## unitron

You need a 2TB drive (or smaller, minimum size for the TCD652160 is 160GB), and it's a lot easier with WinMFS if you've got a Windows machine handy, but that'll require a .tbk image file and not a .bak

With either, DO NOT do the expansion beyond 160GB as part of the copy or restore process.

On the command line (i.e., using some version of MFS Tools), that means do not include the 

x

option in the option string 

(-xzpi) 

(and I never saw any benefit to including the 'z', either)

With WinMFS, that means when it says you have extra space, do you want to expand into to or use it, you say NO.

Then you check with 

mfsinfo 

(on both command line and WinMFS)

to make sure all went well with the copy or restore and that you have a nice big Apple Free partition at the end of the partition map. You may need to run 

pdisk -l

as well if you're running the command line version.

Then you expand with 

mfsadd


----------



## mattack

Couldn't you also just dd from one drive to the other, and plug the new drive in.. and it would 'just work' (at the size of the old drive)?


----------



## unitron

mattack said:


> Couldn't you also just dd from one drive to the other, and plug the new drive in.. and it would 'just work' (at the size of the old drive)?


Theoretically, although I'm not sure what kind of problems you might be "Zeroxing" over as well.

In my case, I'd need to boot from something like spike's MFS Live cd to run

dd

or, better yet,

dd_rescue

anyway, so I might as well use the MFS Tools.


----------



## jmbach

If he uses MFSTools 3.2, he can just use mfscopy -ai /dev/c /dev/sdb (based on his previous post of source and target drives). It would copy and expand up to 3TB. If he wanted to limit the copy to 2 TB he can use the command mfscopy -ai -M 1863 /dev/sdc /dev/sdb. If he want to just experiment then if he leaves off the 'a' switch the process will take less than 10 minutes and he can see if a 3TB image will work. Of course, it might work without recordings but it might fail if he tries to view a recording over the 2TB mark. But it would be interesting if he decides to try it.


----------



## Jackiemac22

jmbach said:


> One issue is that you are using a 3TB drive in a series 3 unit. The OS does not support any drive over 2TB as far as I know. Last time I tested for greater than 2TB capability was around 2012/2013.
> I would try downloading MFSTools 3.2 and use that to do what you are attempting.


Sorry it's actually a WD20EURS


----------



## jmbach

Jackiemac22 said:


> Sorry it's actually a WD20EURS


Try MFSTools 3.2 and see if that would work for you. Use the command mfscopy -ai /dev/sdX /dev/sdY. Where X is the source drive and Y is the target drive.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## Justin.KY

Hey guys, I'm thinking of this drive for my new Tivo's. It's the Western Digital purple for Surveillance systems. It's meant for multiple reads/writes. I'm open to suggestions! I'm new to the game. 1TB is $50
https://www.amazon.com/Purple-Surve...qid=1517082028&sr=8-3&keywords=dvr+hard+drive


----------



## jmbach

I recommend the WD Red drives (not Pro). I have them in all my expanded TiVo models. FWIW, I think that is the overall concensus here. 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## Teeps

Justin.KY said:


> Hey guys, I'm thinking of this drive for my new Tivo's. It's the Western Digital purple for Surveillance systems. It's meant for multiple reads/writes. I'm open to suggestions! I'm new to the game. 1TB is $50
> https://www.amazon.com/Purple-Surve...qid=1517082028&sr=8-3&keywords=dvr+hard+drive


I replaced the drive in my xl4 3 years ago with a purple drive; it's lasted longer than the original WD green drive.
Of course your experience may vary.


----------



## Justin.KY

Thanks All!!


----------



## V7Goose

Been 10 years since I last touched my THD boxes for anything but watching - now have a bad upgraded drive I need to replace. I downloaded MFStools 3.3 and it seems to boot OK. I am going to try and use an old WD20EARS drive I had sitting in a box, but I cannot find my old copy of WDidle3. Searching these long threads is giving me a headache.

Can someone give me a quick point to where I can get WDidle3? Thanx!


----------



## V7Goose

Another quick question: From the posts I have seen, it looks like mfscopy -ai will copy the stock 160GB drive AND expand the new drive all the way out to 2T. Is this correct? Do I need to do anything else with the new expanded drive other than just put it in the THD and boot it up?

It has been so long since I had to mess with these old boxes it seems like my brain has gone all to mush!


----------



## dougdingle

V7Goose said:


> Can someone give me a quick point to where I can get WDidle3? Thanx!


https://www.ixsystems.com/community/attachments/wdidle3_1_05-zip.3521/

It is the identical size with the identical CRC of a file I have used here in the past, so I would think it's fine.


----------



## unitron

V7Goose said:


> Been 10 years since I last touched my THD boxes for anything but watching - now have a bad upgraded drive I need to replace. I downloaded MFStools 3.3 and it seems to boot OK. I am going to try and use an old WD20EARS drive I had sitting in a box, but I cannot find my old copy of WDidle3. Searching these long threads is giving me a headache.
> 
> Can someone give me a quick point to where I can get WDidle3? Thanx!


It's on the Ultimate Boot CD

as is the Western Digital long test you need to run on that drive before trusting it.

Also, look into as little something called Power Up In Standby, or PUIS, just in case you find yourself needing to recognize the symptoms.

Download the UBCD .iso file

and burn it "as an image" to a CD-R


----------



## unitron

If you used WinMFS the first time around and still have it on a PC, you can use it to copy the 160 to the 2TB. Just tell it "NO" when it offers to expand, check the 2TB with

mfsinfo

making sure you have a big old Apple Free partition, and then expand as a separate process using

mfsadd



V7Goose said:


> Another quick question: From the posts I have seen, it looks like mfscopy -ai will copy the stock 160GB drive AND expand the new drive all the way out to 2T. Is this correct? Do I need to do anything else with the new expanded drive other than just put it in the THD and boot it up?
> 
> It has been so long since I had to mess with these old boxes it seems like my brain has gone all to mush!


----------



## unitron

If you used WinMFS the first time around and still have it on a PC, you can use it to copy the 160 to the 2TB. Just tell it "NO" when it offers to expand, check the 2TB with

mfsinfo

making sure you have a big old Apple Free partition, and then expand as a separate process using

mfsadd



V7Goose said:


> Another quick question: From the posts I have seen, it looks like mfscopy -ai will copy the stock 160GB drive AND expand the new drive all the way out to 2T. Is this correct? Do I need to do anything else with the new expanded drive other than just put it in the THD and boot it up?
> 
> It has been so long since I had to mess with these old boxes it seems like my brain has gone all to mush!


----------



## unitron

If you used WinMFS the first time around and still have it on a PC, you can use it to copy the 160 to the 2TB. Just tell it "NO" when it offers to expand, check the 2TB with

mfsinfo

making sure you have a big old Apple Free partition, and then expand as a separate process using

mfsadd



V7Goose said:


> Another quick question: From the posts I have seen, it looks like mfscopy -ai will copy the stock 160GB drive AND expand the new drive all the way out to 2T. Is this correct? Do I need to do anything else with the new expanded drive other than just put it in the THD and boot it up?
> 
> It has been so long since I had to mess with these old boxes it seems like my brain has gone all to mush!


----------



## unitron

If you used WinMFS the first time around and still have it on a PC, you can use it to copy the 160 to the 2TB. Just tell it "NO" when it offers to expand, check the 2TB with

mfsinfo

making sure you have a big old Apple Free partition, and then expand as a separate process using

mfsadd



V7Goose said:


> Another quick question: From the posts I have seen, it looks like mfscopy -ai will copy the stock 160GB drive AND expand the new drive all the way out to 2T. Is this correct? Do I need to do anything else with the new expanded drive other than just put it in the THD and boot it up?
> 
> It has been so long since I had to mess with these old boxes it seems like my brain has gone all to mush!


----------



## jmbach

V7Goose said:


> Another quick question: From the posts I have seen, it looks like mfscopy -ai will copy the stock 160GB drive AND expand the new drive all the way out to 2T. Is this correct? Do I need to do anything else with the new expanded drive other than just put it in the THD and boot it up?
> 
> It has been so long since I had to mess with these old boxes it seems like my brain has gone all to mush!


Yes that command is all you need to copy and expand the image.


----------



## V7Goose

unitron said:


> It's on the Ultimate Boot CD


Thanx - I had that CD sitting on the shelf - never thought to look at it. Now I just gotta open up a PC and swap the drives to use it!



unitron said:


> If you used WinMFS the first time around and still have it on a PC, you can use it to copy the 160 to the 2TB. Just tell it "NO" when it offers to expand, check the 2TB with


Yes, I did use WinMFS long ago, and I even still have it, but I wanted to use updated tools if they were available. MFSTools 3.3 is what I will need if I want to mess with copying drives for my Bolts, so it made sense to me to use it for the S3 also.



jmbach said:


> Yes that command is all you need to copy and expand the image.


Thanx. I was really impressed on how totally simple it was to just download the MFSTools 3.3 iso and burn it with W10, then it booted flawlessly the first time, recognized both drives in a USB clone dock, and ran the copy without a hitch.

Reading other posts I saw that there is apparently a Linux tool to check/set idle times available - it would have really been nice if the MFSTools CD had that tool on there too, but I'm not complaining. Unfortunately, it has been about 15 years since I messed with Linux, so I guess I'll just get buy with the WD tool.

All y'all are truly a great resource for our community - the help and tools you provide are amazing. THANK YOU!


----------



## V7Goose

Man, I had a hell of a time getting WDIdle3 run on that new drive! The Ultimate Boot CD worked, but only kinda . . . 

I first tried it on an old XP laptop that had a Fujitsu internal drive. The CD booted fine, and FreeDOS with WDIdle3 ran fine, but it could not find any USB-attached drives. No real surprise there, and it did see the Fujitsu drive correctly.

Second, I went to a 10 year old Acer desktop that I use to record videos from my TiVos. I opened it up and disconnected the internal drive and put the WD20EARS in its place. The Ultimate Boot CD ran fine, and so did FreeDOS, but WDIdle3 could not se ANY drive connected to the Acer controlers (other utilities on the CD saw them just fine).

Third, I pulled out an old hulk PC case from about 15 years ago - had an old Gigabyte MB in it, but no hard drive at all. The Ultimate Boot CD booted just fine on that one, but FreeDOS would hang before it could launch WDIdle3! Other utilities on the CD ran fine, and they could all see the drive, but I never got FreeDOS to initialize.

Finally I dug out an old USB floppy drive and an emergency boot floppy - that brought up DOS on the old PC just fine, and I could then run WDIdle3 successfully from another floppy disk. Who'da thunk that I would have to resort to running floppy disks in 2019?? But I am glad I finally got it to run - that WD20EARS WAS set to idle at 8 seconds.

The THD is now up and running with the "new" 10-year-old 2TB drive, and all seems good. One slightly odd thing I noticed - the old WD20EURS 2TB drive showed 318 HD hour capacity, but thie 2TB replacement only shows 287 HD hours. Not a big deal for that old box, but it did kinda surprise me. Did I need to run Supersize or some such thing from MFSTools after I did the MFScopy -ai?


----------



## jmbach

V7Goose said:


> Man, I had a hell of a time getting WDIdle3 run on that new drive! The Ultimate Boot CD worked, but only kinda . . .
> 
> I first tried it on an old XP laptop that had a Fujitsu internal drive. The CD booted fine, and FreeDOS with WDIdle3 ran fine, but it could not find any USB-attached drives. No real surprise there, and it did see the Fujitsu drive correctly.
> 
> Second, I went to a 10 year old Acer desktop that I use to record videos from my TiVos. I opened it up and disconnected the internal drive and put the WD20EARS in its place. The Ultimate Boot CD ran fine, and so did FreeDOS, but WDIdle3 could not se ANY drive connected to the Acer controlers (other utilities on the CD saw them just fine).
> 
> Third, I pulled out an old hulk PC case from about 15 years ago - had an old Gigabyte MB in it, but no hard drive at all. The Ultimate Boot CD booted just fine on that one, but FreeDOS would hang before it could launch WDIdle3! Other utilities on the CD ran fine, and they could all see the drive, but I never got FreeDOS to initialize.
> 
> Finally I dug out an old USB floppy drive and an emergency boot floppy - that brought up DOS on the old PC just fine, and I could then run WDIdle3 successfully from another floppy disk. Who'da thunk that I would have to resort to running floppy disks in 2019?? But I am glad I finally got it to run - that WD20EARS WAS set to idle at 8 seconds.
> 
> The THD is now up and running with the "new" 10-year-old 2TB drive, and all seems good. One slightly odd thing I noticed - the old WD20EURS 2TB drive showed 318 HD hour capacity, but thie 2TB replacement only shows 287 HD hours. Not a big deal for that old box, but it did kinda surprise me. Did I need to run Supersize or some such thing from MFSTools after I did the MFScopy -ai?


Two things. One you have to run supersize on the drive and mfscopy creates a larger swap partition.


----------



## V7Goose

jmbach said:


> Two things. One you have to run supersize on the drive and mfscopy creates a larger swap partition.


Yup, Supersize was all it needed. That machine went from 287 HD hrs to 319 HD hrs by just typing 9 letters. Maybe that old Series 3 has another 10 years in it now? Thanx guys!


----------



## mattack

Wait, is supersize what I use on a bigger drive put into a Premiere 4? I did that, and it formatted it to 3 TB.. I know I put a bigger drive in there, thinking I was going to expand it but never did.

Is there a way I can do it without Windows? I thought I needed to set up a Windows machine to do it..


----------



## ThAbtO

mattack said:


> Is there a way I can do it without Windows?


WinMFS (doesn't work on S4 and up), DVRBars are Windows applicaitons. MFSTools is a self-contained bootup CD or portable drive running Linux.


----------



## mattack

yeah.. but is the supersize part part of the windows app or the Linux CD?


----------



## ThAbtO

MFSTools on the CD. Amongst the various commands there, supersize, mfsadd, mfscopy.

For WinMFS, its in the menus.


----------



## jmbach

mattack said:


> Wait, is supersize what I use on a bigger drive put into a Premiere 4? I did that, and it formatted it to 3 TB.. I know I put a bigger drive in there, thinking I was going to expand it but never did.
> 
> Is there a way I can do it without Windows? I thought I needed to set up a Windows machine to do it..


What steps did you do to put the image on the 3 TB in the Premiere.

Supersize on MFSTools ISO takes away from reserved space for essentially TiVo ads and adds it to regular recording space.

There was an issue with JMFS not working with large drives because of signed vs unsigned variables. This was corrected in a later release. If you used JMFS to create your image, then that may be why you do not have full recording space of the drive.


----------



## mattack

jmbach said:


> What steps did you do to put the image on the 3 TB in the Premiere.


Unless I'm totally forgetting, which may be possible, I just put an unformatted drive in there and it did its thing.. IIRC, the Premiere 4 and Roamio and above will automatically format any blank drive to 3 TB.


----------



## jmbach

mattack said:


> Unless I'm totally forgetting, which may be possible, I just put an unformatted drive in there and it did its thing.. IIRC, the Premiere 4 and Roamio and above will automatically format any blank drive to 3 TB.


Only the Roamio and Bolts will format the drives automatically. Premieres always need an image placed on it.


----------



## mattack

oh, then I guess I did the conversion with mfcopy or whatever it's called.


----------



## jmbach

mattack said:


> oh, then I guess I did the conversion with mfcopy or whatever it's called.


mfscopy will copy and expand at the same time. So it should be at full capacity. You eke out a little more by supersizing it.


----------



## Mrkrowely

I just replaced my HDD for the 2nd time on my Tivo HD (TCD652160), I wanted to let everyone know that i used this HDD for my replacement and it works perfectly and only cost $49.99 (as of 4/19/19). This was a tivo that was purchased in 2009.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/wd-blu...rd-drive-for-desktops/5638723.p?skuId=5638723


----------



## stevenewhdd

Hi there.

Really new to this and need some help. Replacing original HDD on TiVo HD. Looks like WD is the best brand? Also I’ll need a HDD dock to plug into my windows computer to install OS from a program called winMFS which I can get from the internet archive. I’ve been searching these forums. My question is does the WD drive require any removal of software? I’m reading here some have software that needs to be removed. I’m specifically looking at the WD10EZRZ mentioned above.

Is there anything I need to know from a newbie perspective? I really appreciate the help!


----------



## ThreeSoFar

stevenewhdd said:


> Hi there.
> 
> Really new to this and need some help. Replacing original HDD on TiVo HD. Looks like WD is the best brand? Also I'll need a HDD dock to plug into my windows computer to install OS from a program called winMFS which I can get from the internet archive. I've been searching these forums. My question is does the WD drive require any removal of software? I'm reading here some have software that needs to be removed. I'm specifically looking at the WD10EZRZ mentioned above.
> 
> Is there anything I need to know from a newbie perspective? I really appreciate the help!


You don't say what model TiVo you have. Makes a difference on the upgrade process. The newest models, to include at least the Bolt and maybe one or two before that, will automatically go to the internet and download all the TiVo OS and do a fresh install if you put in an empty drive. You probably have an older one, is my guess.

The upgrade will destroy/remove all data on the drive, no need to do that first.


----------



## dougdingle

WD Red drives have performed well for most here, including me. I am not a big fan of the WD Blue drive you mentioned. I have found them to be loud and hot. The WD Red drives for a few dollars more are quiet, run cool, and are built for 24/7 use.

Is the original drive still operational, or is it dead? If it's still operational, you could copy its image (and maybe even its recorded shows) to the new drive using winMFS (if it's really a TiVo HD model) or MFStools 3.32 if it's not. TiVo's newer than The TiVoHD model can't use winMFS.

If it's dead, you'll have to get a basic image file for your particular TiVo model from someone (several people have them, and you can usually get someone to send you link to one).


----------



## stevenewhdd

ThreeSoFar said:


> You don't say what model TiVo you have. Makes a difference on the upgrade process. The newest models, to include at least the Bolt and maybe one or two before that, will automatically go to the internet and download all the TiVo OS and do a fresh install if you put in an empty drive. You probably have an older one, is my guess.
> 
> The upgrade will destroy/remove all data on the drive, no need to do that first.


Thank you for your reply! The TiVo HD model number is TCD652160.


----------



## stevenewhdd

dougdingle said:


> WD Red drives have performed well for most here, including me. I am not a big fan of the WD Blue drive you mentioned. I have found them to be loud and hot. The WD Red drives for a few dollars more are quiet, run cool, and are built for 24/7 use.
> 
> Is the original drive still operational, or is it dead? If it's still operational, you could copy its image (and maybe even its recorded shows) to the new drive using winMFS or MFStools 3.32.
> 
> If it's dead, you'll have to get a basic image file for your particular TiVo model from someone (several people have them, and you can usually get someone to send you link to one).


The original drive is still 100% operational and does reboot occasionally so I think it is time to replace it. I can "back up" the drive and put it on the new HDD through a HDD dock, right? Also is there a need to remove software or firmware off of the new HDD from WD? Also, any specific WD Red drive you recommend? Trying to stay cost effective. Thanks!


----------



## dougdingle

stevenewhdd said:


> The original drive is still 100% operational and does reboot occasionally so I think it is time to replace it. I can "back up" the drive and put it on the new HDD through a HDD dock, right? Also is there a need to remove software or firmware off of the new HDD from WD? Also, any specific WD Red drive you recommend? Trying to stay cost effective. Thanks!


Be aware that occasional reboots can just as easily be caused by a failing power supply as a failing drive.

The model you have can (I believe) use winMFS, which means you can probably use a dual dock to copy the old drive to the new one. Another option here on the forums is a Windows program called DVRbars which will do two step copies (old TiVo drive to your computer's drive to new TiVo drive).

WD Red drives come in 1 to 12 TB sizes. I don't think your model TiVo supports anything bigger than 2TB (or maybe 3TB, sorry I don't remember). Buy the size you need for the amount of hours of storage you want.

Do not buy a WD Red Pro drive - those are for something else, run hotter, are more expensive.

Your other option is to buy a pre-configured drive off ebay or from Weaknees. It will boot right up, but your shows will be gone, and you'll have to remarry your cable card with the help of your cable supplier (unless you just use it for off air recording).


----------



## dougdingle

Newegg currently has the 2TB WD Red drive for $70 with free shipping: WD Red WD20EFAX 2TB 5400 RPM 256MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - Newegg.com


----------



## stevenewhdd

dougdingle said:


> Be aware that occasional reboots can just as easily be caused by a failing power supply as a failing drive.
> 
> The model you have can (I believe) use winMFS, which means you can probably use a dual dock to copy the old drive to the new one. Another option here on the forums is a Windows program called DVRbars which will do two step copies (old TiVo drive to your computer's drive to new TiVo drive).
> 
> WD Red drives come in 1 to 12 TB sizes. I don't think your model TiVo supports anything bigger than 2TB (or maybe 3TB, sorry I don't remember). Buy the size you need for the amount of hours of storage you want.
> 
> Do not buy a WD Red Pro drive - those are for something else, run hotter, are more expensive.
> 
> Your other option is to buy a pre-configured drive off ebay or from Weaknees. It will boot right up, but your shows will be gone, and you'll have to remarry your cable card with the help of your cable supplier (unless you just use it for off air recording).


I replaced my power supply a few years back. I am going to see if I have a HDD dock, I think there are single docks and dual docks. I am assuming both will do the trick. From a YouTube video it looks like I can back up the old one, and then install that image on the new one. I do not care about any of the data on the HDD so I should be able to install with winMFS with no problem. I am considering a Seagate Barracuda as I have always have had good experiences with Seagate. The HD only supports 2TB so I will probably stick with 1 TB, trying to avoid preconfigured due to pricing, this doesn't seem too complex.

Also - can you elaborate on "remarrying" cable card with my cable provider?


----------



## ThAbtO

stevenewhdd said:


> Hi there.
> 
> Really new to this and need some help. Replacing original HDD on TiVo HD. Looks like WD is the best brand? Also I'll need a HDD dock to plug into my windows computer to install OS from a program called winMFS which I can get from the internet archive. I've been searching these forums. My question is does the WD drive require any removal of software? I'm reading here some have software that needs to be removed. I'm specifically looking at the WD10EZRZ mentioned above.
> 
> Is there anything I need to know from a newbie perspective? I really appreciate the help!





stevenewhdd said:


> I replaced my power supply a few years back. I am going to see if I have a HDD dock, I think there are single docks and dual docks. I am assuming both will do the trick. From a YouTube video it looks like I can back up the old one, and then install that image on the new one. I do not care about any of the data on the HDD so I should be able to install with winMFS with no problem. I am considering a Seagate Barracuda as I have always have had good experiences with Seagate. The HD only supports 2TB so I will probably stick with 1 TB, trying to avoid preconfigured due to pricing, this doesn't seem too complex.
> 
> Also - can you elaborate on "remarrying" cable card with my cable provider?


The WD10EZRZ is a green drive, no longer made, overpriced, out of warranty. You would also need to disable a couple of functions, Intellipark (use WDidle), PUIS (use HDAT). To do these, you must connect to the computer SATA port, no usb or dock.

Recommended is WD Red WD10EFRX or max, WD20EFRX. Nothing to disable. Amazon has the 2TB for under $80.

Be aware that if you are going to use it to record on able, it does not do well on MPEG4/SDV channels and cannot transfer them to PC/Tivo. Transfer/copy is all it can do, no streaming. There is no longer Netflix or YouTube.

This is a Series 3 model which Tivo no longer supports and will not activate, but will continue to service guide on lifetime.

It can handle OTA and cable at the same time, through its own coax inputs. It just records 2 channels, either 2 on cable or antenna, or 1 on both at the same time.


----------



## V7Goose

Just look about 5" further down in this same forum:

2019 TiVo HD Step-by-Step Drive Expansion


----------



## dougdingle

ThAbtO said:


> The WD10EZRZ is a green drive, no longer made, overpriced, out of warranty. You would also need to disable a couple of functions, Intellipark (use WDidle), PUIS (use HDAT). To do these, you must connect to the computer SATA port, no usb or dock.


Actually, WD10EZRZ is now the designation for the current WD Blue 'desktop' drive according to Newegg and Amazon. I bought one of those, a 4TB, about a year ago, and it was loud, hot, tended to vibrate. I returned it.


----------



## stevenewhdd

Last question, I promise. I have a PC with 4 HDD bays. Can I use the existing SATA cable in the TiVo to connect it to one of my computers empty bays? I would plug in old, back up, unplug and then plug in new to image it. Does that sound about right?


----------



## dougdingle

You can plug the TiVo drive into one of the unused bays on your machine, but be aware that Windows will offer to 'initialize' it for you. *If you allow that, the drive will become useless in the TiVo*. *Refuse that offer. *

I don't know what sort of SATA cable is in the TiVo you have, but one end can obviously connect to the drive. If the other end can plug into one of your motherboard's SATA connectors (plus you'll need a power connection), you can use it.

A SATA cable is pretty much a SATA cable if the manufacturer used standard parts (not everyone does).


----------



## ThAbtO

The SATA cable from the Tivo is not a normal PC SATA cable, so no.


----------



## stevenewhdd

ThAbtO said:


> The SATA cable from the Tivo is not a normal PC SATA cable, so no.


Hmm, this is not the same cable? I cannot simply use the existing SATA cable with power from the TiVo HD and plug into that empty HDD bay?


----------



## jmbach

stevenewhdd said:


> Hmm, this is not the same cable? I cannot simply use the existing SATA cable with power from the TiVo HD and plug into that empty HDD bay?


The TiVo SATA cables are only about 3 inches in length. The end is that plug into the motherboard of the TiVo has two ends. One is a regular SATA end and the other is a 4 pin connector.


----------



## stevenewhdd

Just completed the hard drive upgrade! It was successful. I used a WD 1TB Red HDD, and a dual HDD SATA dock. Thank you to everyone who helped!


----------



## SOGLAD

I know this is a very old post but expect this message if you try the Link above:

"*Error (404)*
We can't find the page you're looking for.


----------



## pacman314159

Can someone please PM me a link to an image for a TCD65800? need to replace my HDD, and was hoping to expand to 2TB. Thanks!


----------



## ThAbtO

pacman314159 said:


> Can someone please PM me a link to an image for a TCD65800? need to replace my HDD, and was hoping to expand to 2TB. Thanks!


Sent.


----------



## mameyer

I have a Series3 with an external my expander that was looking like one of the drives was failing. I was planning on doing an upgrade on the internal drive before it did fail- and it looked like the instructions on http://www.rosswalker.co.uk/tivo_upgrade/ required me to unpair the external drive. The TIVO wouldn't finish unpairing it and now it is stuck on External Storage Missing bootloop.

Any thoughts on what is the best and or quickest way to get to upgrading my drive on the series 3? Do i need to get unstuck from this boot loop before following the rest of the instructions for WINMFS? Do I need to acquire a clean image from a third party and skip the copy? I do realize I am losing my recordings, and that is fine.

Thanks. Please let me know your thoughts.

TIVO Series 3
Software 11.0n.h1-...

Mark


----------



## ThAbtO

mameyer said:


> Any thoughts on what is the best and or quickest way to get to upgrading my drive on the series 3? Do i need to get unstuck from this boot loop before following the rest of the instructions for WINMFS? Do I need to acquire a clean image from a third party and skip the copy? I do realize I am losing my recordings, and that is fine.


You would need to check/replace the capacitors in the power supply, it is common on these series to fail without warning.

You would need to get a model-specific working image to restore to a new drive. It would also not need to unpair from the external and that would be separate issue unless you were to use your existing image.

The model number is on the back label starting with TCD. If it is running, see the System Information, the 1st 3 digits of the Tivo Service number, the last 3 digits of the software version.


----------



## mameyer

ThAbtO said:


> You would need to check/replace the capacitors in the power supply, it is common on these series to fail without warning.
> 
> You would need to get a model-specific working image to restore to a new drive. It would also not need to unpair from the external and that would be separate issue unless you were to use your existing image.
> 
> The model number is on the back label starting with TCD. If it is running, see the System Information, the 1st 3 digits of the Tivo Service number, the last 3 digits of the software version.


Its a model TCD648250B. Does anyone have a working image that they could message me? Is there a really good guide out there for restoring the TIVO from an image? Your help is appreciated.

Mark


----------



## ThAbtO

mameyer said:


> Its a model TCD648250B.


Sent.


----------



## mameyer

ThAbtO said:


> Sent.


Thank you!!


----------



## erikfed

I'm trying to upgrade my tivo Series 3 HD to a 1TB HD (Hitachi HDT721010SLA360). I'm using a Win 10 PC and WinMFS 9.3g. I connect the Tivo drive and the Hitachi both via Serial ATA on the same cable from the MB and power cables from the power supply. When the computer boots up, the Hitachi has been assigned a drive letter (D) and the Tivo drive has not been assigned a letter and is not available as a volume. In Device Manager I can see all 3 of my drives are recognized and have been assigned Bus #'s. My solid state main computer boot drive is (0), the Tivo drive is (1) and the Hitachi is (2). I have changed WinMFS to run as administrator in the properties. When I run WinMFS and go to Select Drives, I check the "Show Mounted Drive" box and my Hitachi appears as #2. I select the Tivo #1 as Drive A, then click the "Select" Button. I then go to Tools > MFSCopy. My Tivo is listed as the Source drive but I have no options under Destination Drive? Only "None" in the drop down? What am I doing wrong? One last thing...If I select the Hitachi as the Source drive, the Tivo drive is now selectable as the Destination drive. Not sure if that helps, it doesn't help me.

Sorry for the long post but I figured I'd try to give all the info I can and answer as many questions as possible up front.

Any thoughts?


----------



## erikfed

ABOVE SOLVED: Finally got it to offer me my new drive as Destination. Not sure what did it but here's what I did. Re-downloaded WINMFS. Same version but can't remember if it was from a different source. This time when in Properties to Run as Adm administrator I also ran it in Compatibility Mode for Windows Vista. I am now running the Copy, fingers crossed if it finishes with no errors.


----------



## ThAbtO

erikfed said:


> the Hitachi has been assigned a drive letter (D)


The drive should show up under the "Mounted drives" button in this case, or you can erase and remove all the partitions on that drive.

Tivo drives should not be assigned a drive designation and not let Windows initialize them.


----------



## BizarroTerl

I have two of the Tivo Premier with lifetime subscriptions. One appears to now have a bad HDD. It hangs at the powering up screen. I have a spare 1TB SSD.
Can I copy the HDD from the good Premier to the SSD and install that in the Premier with the bad HDD? If that'll work what cloning software should I use? 

I don't care about any existing recording and 1TB of space is plenty for how we use the Tivos.


----------



## Teeps

BizarroTerl said:


> I have two of the Tivo Premier with lifetime subscriptions. One appears to now have a bad HDD. It hangs at the powering up screen. I have a spare 1TB SSD.
> Can I copy the HDD from the good Premier to the SSD and install that in the Premier with the bad HDD? If that'll work what cloning software should I use?
> 
> I don't care about any existing recording and 1TB of space is plenty for how we use the Tivos.


Post the exact model number of the tivo in question here.
Some one will come along soon with a clean image.
I used DvrBars to reimage the drive on my XL4. 
Dvr Backup And Restore Software for Windows (DvrBARS)
Easy to do, even I got it right!


----------



## jmbach

BizarroTerl said:


> I have two of the Tivo Premier with lifetime subscriptions. One appears to now have a bad HDD. It hangs at the powering up screen. I have a spare 1TB SSD.
> Can I copy the HDD from the good Premier to the SSD and install that in the Premier with the bad HDD? If that'll work what cloning software should I use?
> 
> I don't care about any existing recording and 1TB of space is plenty for how we use the Tivos.


If they are the same TiVo model and drive size, then use a disk cloner. When you put the cloned drive in the problematic TiVo, you will need to do a clear and delete everything to marry the drive to the TiVo.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


----------



## ThreeSoFar

jmbach said:


> If they are the same TiVo model and drive size, then use a disk cloner. When you put the cloned drive in the problematic TiVo, you will need to do a clear and delete everything to marry the drive to the TiVo.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


If your TiVo was more than 1TB this will fail, is my guess. If it was less than 1TB it will likely work but you will not increase your recording capacity.

MFSTools will take either drive as a source drive (it will attempt to recover your shows on the bad drive, this may or may not work) and copy it all to a larger drive, while at the same time adding a new partition to allow the larger space to be utilized. That used to be mfslive.org, but that seems to be dead? I do see a 2.0 version of MFStools here though (elsewhere in this same thread is probably more current information, it's been a long time since I've done/needed this):
MFS Tools - Upgrading america one TiVo at a time


----------



## ThreeSoFar

UPDATE: You missed it by one model, but for completeness it's worth mentioning here: From the Roamio forward, you can plop an empty compatible drive in there of most any size and the firmware on the board will see that it's not right and offer to go to the Interwebs and install you a brand new TiVo OS on that drive. You don't have to "scrub" your windows or whatever off of it, it'll offer to do this with any non-TiVo drive. It's almost grandpa level, difficulty wise.


----------



## BizarroTerl

The Tivo is model TCD746320
I pulled the HDD and did a full dvrBARS backup. I got about a dozen read errors. I restored it to the SSD, installed it, and booted it up. Went through about 15 mins of waiting screens and it then came fully back up. Tivo is back up and running and all recordings are still there. Original disk size was 320GB. I didn't bother to try and use the full SSD as we only use this for OTA recordings and only keep 3 or 4 of each series, mostly local news and local interest programs.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

BizarroTerl said:


> The Tivo is model TCD746320
> I pulled the HDD and did a full dvrBARS backup. I got about a dozen read errors. I restored it to the SSD, installed it, and booted it up. Went through about 15 mins of waiting screens and it then came fully back up. Tivo is back up and running and all recordings are still there. Original disk size was 320GB. I didn't bother to try and use the full SSD as we only use this for OTA recordings and only keep 3 or 4 of each series, mostly local news and local interest programs.


Nice! success!

Anytime you want to try, MFSTools can expand that to use the rest of the space. I'm not sure about the pros/cons of using an SSD on a DVR, as it's constantly recording could it maybe "burn out" the flash?

ETA: Anyway, I'd maybe save that "broken" original drive to repeat this process if the SSD fails maybe.


----------



## teasip

Addendum: Disregard. I was able to locate the MFS file itself, download, and install. TiVo HD backed up and now saved.

Ugh, Windows (10). Mac OS user. Used to have program on a Windows computer years ago and left it for Mac OS. Past weekend put Win 10 on under Bootcamp. I've downloaded the MFSTools file. I added the program to put the files onto the USB drive. When I press option while booting I select the USB drive. Program looks like it's loading and allows me to enter user name and password and then says "have fun". After that point nothing until I see the Linux prompt with a 300.8223231 mce: [Hardware error]: Machine check events logged. Trying to load using a MBPr mid-2012 laptop. I don't remember the process being this convoluted and scanning the last couple of pages I'm not seeing others getting to the program. Suggestions?


----------



## pianofunk

Looking for an image for model TCD652160. Waited to long to replace the drive.


----------



## ThAbtO

pianofunk said:


> Looking for an image for model TCD652160. Waited to long to replace the drive.


Sent.


----------



## pianofunk

ThAbtO said:


> Sent.


Thank you.


----------



## RandallW

Have an old TiVo HD that I'm trying to update the HD on. The USB Wifi adapter apparently went bad and wouldn't update the program guide about a month ago (apparently it got too hot and the bottom started melting?). Anyways, went through some steps to try and use my laptop as a wifi bridge, did a Clear & Delete Program data, then it got stuck trying to power-up. Took it apart, cleaned the inside, re-lubed the fan since it was now making noise, and tried to re-image the original and a new 2 TB HD with WinMFS. Also made sure to do wdidle3 on the WD drives, but when I plug it in and power it up, the TiVo just displays a black screen. No "Powering Up" at all. The green button on the front is not flashing (looks to be almost solid on), no buttons function on the remote to display anything for the LEDs on the box.

Any ideas?


----------



## Stineyusmc

Looking for an image for model TCD652160. If someone could help me out it would be greatly appreciated! Thank you so much in advance!


----------



## Stineyusmc

ThAbtO said:


> Sent.


Could you please forward me that image also, it would be greatly appreciate it and thank you so much and advance!


----------



## ThAbtO

RandallW said:


> Have an old TiVo HD that I'm trying to update the HD on. The USB Wifi adapter apparently went bad and wouldn't update the program guide about a month ago (apparently it got too hot and the bottom started melting?). Anyways, went through some steps to try and use my laptop as a wifi bridge, did a Clear & Delete Program data, then it got stuck trying to power-up. Took it apart, cleaned the inside, re-lubed the fan since it was now making noise, and tried to re-image the original and a new 2 TB HD with WinMFS. Also made sure to do wdidle3 on the WD drives, but when I plug it in and power it up, the TiVo just displays a black screen. No "Powering Up" at all. The green button on the front is not flashing (looks to be almost solid on), no buttons function on the remote to display anything for the LEDs on the box.
> 
> Any ideas?


What model is the drive? It could be drawing too much power to start up. Have the capacitors in the power supply been replaced?


----------



## ThAbtO

Stineyusmc said:


> Looking for an image for model TCD652160. If someone could help me out it would be greatly appreciated! Thank you so much in advance!


Sent.


----------



## RandallW

ThAbtO said:


> What model is the drive? It could be drawing too much power to start up. Have the capacitors in the power supply been replaced?


Purchased a "WD 2 TB WD AV-GP SATA III Intellipower 64 MB Cache Bulk/OEM AV Hard Drive WD20EURX". Capacitors have not been replaced, don't appear to have any bulges or blown.


----------



## ThAbtO

RandallW said:


> Purchased a "WD 2 TB WD AV-GP SATA III Intellipower 64 MB Cache Bulk/OEM AV Hard Drive WD20EURX". Capacitors have not been replaced, don't appear to have any bulges or blown.


You can't always tell if a capacitor went bad just by looking, either test it or just replace them.

The EURX drives are out of warranty and no longer made. Most of the time, they have Intellipark enabled and need WDidle3 to disable or lengthen the time. There is also Power-up-in-Standby which need to be disabled with HDAT. These are found in the Ultimate Boot CD. The drive must also be connected on SATA to get them to work (no USB.)


----------



## RandallW

ThAbtO said:


> You can't always tell if a capacitor went bad just by looking, either test it or just replace them.
> 
> The EURX drives are out of warranty and no longer made. Most of the time, they have Intellipark enabled and need WDidle3 to disable or lengthen the time. There is also Power-up-in-Standby which need to be disabled with HDAT. These are found in the Ultimate Boot CD. The drive must also be connected on SATA to get them to work (no USB.)


Ran WDIDLE3 on the drive earlier, but didn't do the PUIS via HDAT2. Just attempted with my UBCD, but it wasn't able to detect my drive (running it via SATA). Is there a non-WD drive that is recommended?


----------



## ThAbtO

WD20EFRX, or drives ending in PURX/Z


----------



## RandallW

Well, was able to buy a tivo HD from a fellow member in the area to replace the HD, and it worked flawlessly with just the swap. So I have the tivo HD psu and fan if mine ever go bad now. =P. Now if I can figure out why even my old original drive wouldn't run after formatting it with winMFS.


----------



## SpoonieXL

May I get an image PM-ed to me please? [Series 3 HD XL (TCD658000) ]


----------



## ThAbtO

SpoonieXL said:


> May I get an image PM-ed to me please? [Series 3 HD XL (TCD658000) ]


Sent.


----------



## SpoonieXL

ThAbtO said:


> Sent.


THANK-YOU!!! & Thank you again for the instructions.   You're awesome!

I have my downed unit up and running.


----------



## johnbrown44

Might I get an image for a TCD 648250B. Seems these were 250GB, but mine has a 1TB that appears to be original.


----------



## ThAbtO

johnbrown44 said:


> Might I get an image for a TCD 648250B. Seems these were 250GB, but mine has a 1TB that appears to be original.


Sent.
250GB is the original size, yours had to been expanded.


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## johnbrown44

Originally a 250GB, I see. I have been cloning the 1TB drive, and that works, but takes ~5-6 hours. Apparently the file you linked I had already downloaded, and also have winmfs. Had no luck, S3 wouldn't boot. Discovered another possible capacitor issue, unit reboot cycle, sometimes boots. Had replaced caps that tested bad and machine worked for 2 mos. All others test good, may replace anyway.

Thanks for links.

*Edit 4/4/21:*Found that the winmfs program will clone a 1TB drive in less than 2 hours!


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## ThAbtO

johnbrown44 said:


> Originally a 250GB, I see. I have been cloning the 1TB drive, and that works, but takes ~5-6 hours. Apparently the file you linked I had already downloaded, and also have winmfs. Had no luck, S3 wouldn't boot. Discovered another possible capacitor issue, unit reboot cycle, sometimes boots. Had replaced caps that tested bad and machine worked for 2 mos. All others test good, may replace anyway.
> 
> Thanks so for links.


Should have replaced all the capacitors in the first place, as they would show as normal, not bulged, etc.


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## johnbrown44

TLDR;(Too Long, Didn't Read) Yes, should have changed all caps as a preventive measure.

_*Edit 4/4/21:*_ Was a software issue, has been working perfectly with only the 4 bad caps replaced, so I am recanting my "should have replaced all the caps" statement. I will revise this post if things change.

The point is that there is no reason to replace parts if they are good, I have seen no evidence that all of the caps on the S3 go bad. If someone can show me their ESR readings of all the caps being bad we can have a discussion.

On the other hand, some people replace all the light bulbs
in their house when a few burn out, thinking the rest will be
going out soon. I had a landlord that did that. Nothing wrong
with that, but many would consider it an unneeded expenditure
of time & money, while others deem it good preventive maintenance.
If I were paying someone $50/hr to do this, and I had 100 units,
I would have them only replace the bad bulbs._* End rant/edit.*_



Spoiler: Long winded, bit off topic rant



I'm an electronics tech, and can test capacitors with my ESR meter. Yes, capacitors can be bad even if they show no bulging or leaking. They can also last 50 years or more, so best practice in a commercial setting has been not replacing them all when not needed. It adds an additional risk of board or nearby component damage. Fortunately these boards are fairly robust. If you have ever had traces tear or come loose from soldering iron heat you will understand. I tested all caps & only 4 tested bad, so I replaced those. Fixed the problem for a few months. That doesn't mean some I left didn't have issues. But I agree, in this case, changing all would have been best practice on an 11 year-old unit with a history of failing caps.

I have pulled it from my Tivo lineup, so don't use it. (actually was never really in lineup, bought it used a few mos. ago) When I first got it & before putting it on my account, it was still getting guide info from old lifetime account/zip, which was local to me, and sharing with other Tivos (albeit "transfer") & downloading from PC worked, but I didn't know at the time to take note of the a,a,a vs. i,i,i settings in sysinfo. (apparently series 3 has 3 digits, not four like newer machines) They are now i,i,i, and neither sharing nor downloading is working. Shows up on network with yellow exclamation point and "unable to connect." All network tests are fine. Tivo rep says "older units not supported." That doesn't mean they should disable working features. Jerks. They did the same to my Roamio OTA (bought used with Series 3) when I transferred it to my account, but I complained angrily until they "elevated" the case & reinstated the sharing features in a couple days. My Roamio was a,a,a,a before they broke/disabled it to a,i,a,i, now is a,i,a,a, not sure which feature is disabled with this setting. Don't feel like fighting with them to fix it when I don't use the machine. Want to get it functioning to give away or sell.

Can download videos from PC to Roamio & play on Roamio, but even though they show up on Edge units, they won't play. Would be nice, but no big deal, can use Plex. OTA shows recorded with Tivo units can be played fine on other Tivos. (except Series 3)


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## dougdingle

> When I first got it & before putting it on my account, it was still getting guide info from old lifetime account/zip, which was local to me, and sharing with other Tivos (albeit "transfer") & downloading from PC worked


Has TiVo changed something recently? For a long time, putting a 'new' TiVo on your network with other machines that was not registered to you and did not have the matching Media Key would not allow transfers to or from your older TiVos to the new TiVo. Aside from getting proper guide info, the main reason for transferring the lifetime device to you was that TiVo would send it your matching Media Key so all devices could see and talk to each other. Perhaps that's old news now.

Also, the guy who used to run TiVo before it was sold came on Tivocommunity several years ago and made it very clear that transferring content to/from a TiVo to a computer was a sunsetted feature no longer supported and that it would stop working sooner or later. They started by crippling TiVo Desktop, then most other stuff also just stopped working. It was incredibly disappointing to have that great feature die, but such is life.


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## johnbrown44

You are probably right, and I could be remembering the timeline wrong as to what shared with what and when. I had 2 Edges, then found a Roamio and 3 Series 3 units on craiglist dirt cheap. Might have just been sharing between the recently acquired 4 units when they were still on their old, shared account.

Or (more likely) after initially being able to share and download from PC (via piTivo) while all on MY account, they sent me software that crippled sharing. I say more likely, as I seem to recall the sharing lasted a few weeks. Would have to check emails as to when I bought them vs. when I registered them with Tivo. I remember being quite PO'd when it happened. Lifetime should be lifetime. I don't expect new features on an 11 year old machine, or to carry over all the features of an old machine to new models, but don't cripple features on old units that were working a week ago, or that were sold with the unit. To me that borders on fraud. But yeah, such is life. It is just TV after all.

I do know a little about Tivo doing away with the up/downloading of video directly, and use piTivo for that. I never had that feature, either with my Edges or prior DVRs, so I didn't miss it. I do love being able to share recordings between the units. Makes the 500GB Edge units useful, as I have upped the Roamio to 2TB, and with it's 4 tuners vs. the Edges 2, it has more or less become the "server."Haven't taken the plunge to kmttg yet, don't have time to give it right now, but it is on my list. I am new to Tivo, July of last year. _Not_ new to video, DVRs, electronics, software, technology, etc.

Do others' Series 3 units share these days? Are their TiVo To Go settings i,i,i? Have you always had to "Transfer" a video to/from the S3 units to play them, as opposed to directly playing/streaming? Seems that's the way mine worked, before the crippling.


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## dougdingle

johnbrown44 said:


> I do know a little about Tivo doing away with the up/downloading of video directly, and use piTivo for that. I never had that feature, either with my Edges or prior DVRs, so I didn't miss it. I do love being able to share recordings between the units. Makes the 500GB Edge units useful, as I have upped the Roamio to 2TB, and with it's 4 tuners vs. the Edges 2, it has more or less become the "server."Haven't taken the plunge to kmttg yet, don't have time to give it right now, but it is on my list. I am new to Tivo, July of last year. _Not_ new to video, DVRs, electronics, software, technology, etc.


I believe last I read, development on kmttg has stopped, and the author has moved on to other things. But I could be wrong. I really liked the app, all kinds of nice features. I have version 2.4p, which still works nicely on my Roamio Pro.



> Do others' Series 3 units share these days? Are their TiVo To Go settings i,i,i? Have you always had to "Transfer" a video to/from the S3 units to play them, as opposed to directly playing/streaming? Seems that's the way mine worked, before the crippling.


I sold my last Series 3 (I used to own two because two tuners weren't enough) years ago so no longer have any knowledge of what's going on with them. But I can tell you that those models never streamed one to the other - you had to transfer the shows to watch on the other machine.

The upside was that you could make one mirror the other and so had a full backup at all times (although you could mostly do that by duplicating Season Passes, of course).

The downside was that you had to wait for the transfer to complete before you could watch that show. I suspect the Series 3, which I believe was the first full fledged HD home DVR (and not some cable company trash), gave the MPAA heartburn. They don't like for anything to be able to record protected content, even TiVo to TiVo. They hated the very idea of the TiVo, and it was only the extraordinary protection measures TiVo took that even got the MPAA to relent and let them ship once HD became a thing. These days, I have the Roamio and four Minis, and that seems to work OK most of the time.

Once the Roamio dies, I'm done with TiVo. I've been with them and a huge fan and booster since the very first Series 1, but streaming services are eating the concept of local storage alive and there's no comparison between the garbage compressed to hell quality of my Spectrum cable feed and streaming feeds (not TiVo's fault, but nonetheless...). 9-11 Mb/s MPG (a 22 year old terrible codec that needs to be euthanized) is complete trash.

That, by the way, is one of the features of kmttg - it will tell you what the data rate of your recordings are as they were sent by the source (the TiVo just records the stream it is sent without adding further compression).

While I do enjoy having 'offline' content, the cost of cable and the idiosyncratic behavior of the requited Tuning Adapter on my Spectrum system are signaling end of life for this type of setup for me. I already have two higher end streaming devices (AppleTV4K and Shield Pro), and several retired Amazon Firestick4Ks (don't like them very much), and we spend less and less time watching live cable/recordings on the Roamio.

I suspect my monthly streaming bill will be no smaller than my cable TV bill, but I will have a broader content selection with _*hugely *_superior video and audio quality. As long as I have Internet service.


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## mattack

dougdingle said:


> Once the Roamio dies, I'm done with TiVo.


I think they're both useful (streaming and tivo). I even pay for "duplicate" sources.. I watch commercial free (except for the stupid 'bug' that is now even on streaming services, and the few-second network promo before a show) on streaming when possible.. But shows expire..

and I can't watch faster than realtime on any of the streaming services. (Youtube has it for youtube videos, does it have it for their TV services? and if it does, can you make it so that it always starts at a faster-than-realtime speed by default?)

and the transport controls are basically terrible on streaming. (with The Voice, I watch JUST the performances, and not even the full one of all of those.. With Battlebots, I watch the actual battles at normal speed and the rest of the show at 1.7 or 1.9x depending on the day)

So I realize streaming is "taking over", but I think it will be quite a while before cable entirely goes away. (You very often see people asking "why can't I get my streaming services bundled together, like cable".. and there ARE ways of sort of doing that in various ways e.g. on Apple TV, and adding channels on hulu or amazon prime video.)


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## mattack

johnbrown44 said:


> Do others' Series 3 units share these days? Are their TiVo To Go settings i,i,i? Have you always had to "Transfer" a video to/from the S3 units to play them, as opposed to directly playing/streaming? Seems that's the way mine worked, before the crippling.


Yes, AFAIK Premiere 4 is the first one that had streaming instead of transferring. I now have a used tivo mini to use on my main TV (mostly so I could have "Roamio Pro" UI on both TVs, and not necessarily have to get a new cable outlet to move one existing tivo.).. and really, scheduling new recordings via 'normal' UI (instead of 'view upcoming' on an existing show) is one of the relatively few things you can do that you can't do on one tivo directly talking to another tivo. (It bummed me out that I can't change channel settings through the mini. I had expected it to be as close to driving the actual tivo it was paired with as possible. It's still worthwhile though.)


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## HerronScott

dougdingle said:


> Also, the guy who used to run TiVo before it was sold came on Tivocommunity several years ago and made it very clear that transferring content to/from a TiVo to a computer was a sunsetted feature no longer supported and that it would stop working sooner or later. They started by crippling TiVo Desktop, then most other stuff also just stopped working. It was incredibly disappointing to have that great feature die, but such is life.


I assume you mean with TE4 since TiVo Desktop works fine with my S3, Roamio and Bolt with TE3?

Scott


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## johnbrown44

Thanks for sharing some of the history of the Series 3.


dougdingle said:


> I suspect the Series 3, which I believe was the first full fledged HD home DVR (and not some cable company trash), gave the MPAA heartburn. They don't like for anything to be able to record protected content, even TiVo to TiVo.


I imagine it did. I understand you can transfer/copy protected HD content via component video out, whereas HDMI will block it. Don't have firsthand experience, am OTA only, and some Netflix/youtube/Amazon Prime/IMDB etc. streaming with the Edges, which are quick and snappy. Roamio does Netflix & youtube, but a bit slow.


> Once the Roamio dies, I'm done with TiVo. I've been with them and a huge fan and booster since the very first Series 1...


This seems to be the sentiment of many. As usual, I am the last one to the party, and miss out on a lot of the good stuff.


> That, by the way, is one of the features of kmttg - it will tell you what the data rate of your recordings are as they were sent by the source (the TiVo just records the stream it is sent without adding further compression).


Would be handy, as I believe piTivo converts or processes the video, not sure if it recompresses or changes data rate. Seems too fast for that. The "MediaInfo" program does that for media files on a PC. I have a PCI Hauppauge OTA tuner that captures as broadcast, and it is useful to know the data rates, etc. The networks have lowered the data rates the last 10 years to cram more stuff into their allotted bandwidth.

Apparently the S3 has little value, I don't see myself using it, but seems like an HD DVR with lifetime guide would be nice for someone that has no DVR. I'm repairing it to sell or give away to someone that would appreciate it.


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## johnbrown44

mattack said:


> Yes, AFAIK Premiere 4 is the first one that had streaming instead of transferring. I now have a used tivo mini to use on my main TV (mostly so I could have "Roamio Pro" UI on both TVs, and not necessarily have to get a new cable outlet to move one existing tivo.).. and really, scheduling new recordings via 'normal' UI (instead of 'view upcoming' on an existing show) is one of the relatively few things you can do that you can't do on one tivo directly talking to another tivo. (It bummed me out that I can't change channel settings through the mini. I had expected it to be as close to driving the actual tivo it was paired with as possible. It's still worthwhile though.)


Good info. So I'm not missing much by the Series 3 networking being crippled by Tivo. No sense making 2 or 3 phone calls to support and fighting with them to reinstate. It's a matter of picking my battles.

Yes, I'm finding that being able to setup a recording remotely to my "server" 2TB Roamio 4 tuner would be handy. After buying my first TiVo, an Edge, I was on the fence whether to get a second Edge or a mini. Ended up getting the Edge, at $299 shipped on sale it was only $100 more than a mini, plus I get 2 tuners and a 500GB drive. Minis with 1 Edge not practical, if it works at all. If I had a Roamio at the time I would have bought the mini. Was on the fence before buying the Edge, debated Roamio instead. Feared 4 tuners would be weak. They are great. Better than ChannelMaster DVR+'s 2 tuners in my experience. YMMV.

After only having experience with an Edge, I got a used Roamio & Series 3. I can now say it's a tossup for me between the Roamio & Edge. Edge is much faster & has auto skip, Roamio and 4 tuners, plus software v3 gives it a slight advantage.

I like being able to transfer videos from PC to Roamio & have them play. But they don't play on the Edge units. Not sure if they crippled that feature via a,i,a,a missing the 4th a, or if those ever played on an Edge. Plex solves that issue, but I don't like to leave my PC on 24/7 sucking 90 Watts. My 10 watts Synology server will run Plex, but it's processor is too slow, so that doesn't work.


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## dougdingle

HerronScott said:


> I assume you mean with TE4 since TiVo Desktop works fine with my S3, Roamio and Bolt with TE3?
> 
> Scott


They disabled the reach-around 'push' function in the paid 'pro' version. You may be able to download to the TiVo using the TiVo's browse/pull feature, but you can't push anything to the TiVo from your computer as you once could because they disabled the server that did that. I only have TE3 here.


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## dougdingle

johnbrown44 said:


> I like being able to transfer videos from PC to Roamio & have them play. But they don't play on the Edge units. Not sure if they crippled that feature via a,i,a,a missing the 4th a, or if those ever played on an Edge. Plex solves that issue, but I don't like to leave my PC on 24/7 sucking 90 Watts. My 10 watts Synology server will run Plex, but it's processor is too slow, so that doesn't work.


I have a Plex Server running on an Nvidia Shield Pro streaming device (comes built in). It's on 24/7 (even when the Shield is 'sleeping') and draws very little power. The Shield does cost around $200, though. And it's a pretty nice streamer for the most part, although some streaming service app developers tend to sometimes release trashy incomplete apps for it (biggest complaint for me is the number of services where the supplied app only provides 2 channel audio, like CBS AA and for a while HBO MAX). Content from major services like Netflix and Disney+ play back with full high end audio and video support.


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## dougdingle

mattack said:


> But shows expire...and I can't watch faster than realtime on any of the streaming services...and the transport controls are basically terrible on streaming.


All true and valid points. I particularly dislike the transport ballistics while streaming.

I would like to point out, though, that much of the non-broadcast content on cable is slowly but surely being moved to streaming services, and cable will be left with the dregs - low rated shows and endless repeats. Two examples are the new Discovery+ service and in general HBO. For decades, HBO had a 'new' movie on every Saturday night at 8PM - it was how they introduced new content. Now, that slot has 5, 10, 15 year old 2 and 2.5 star movies, while fresh content comes to MAX. And the hints in ads about the Discovery+ package indicate that any new content generated for the channels in the bundle will only be available to people who subscribe to the service.

I'm not rushing to get rid of my TiVos in favor of streaming (unless the Roamio fails, in which case the transition will be immediate), but I can see the writing on the wall.

And if I had good off-air reception here (I have none, zero, even with a huge antenna), I would have made the jump a year ago. But I need the local channels, of which there are many in my area.


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## johnbrown44

dougdingle said:


> I have a Plex Server running on an Nvidia Shield Pro streaming device (comes built in). It's on 24/7 (even when the Shield is 'sleeping') and draws very little power...


Thought about trying to run Plex on a Raspberry Pi, think I have the 3B+. Bought it and set up as a guide server for the CM DVR+. Not sure it could do double duty, or if the proc is fast enough. Will have to ck the specs. Synolgy is 2011 model DS211, hardly a powerhouse.


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## dougdingle

johnbrown44 said:


> Thought about trying to run Plex on a Raspberry Pi, think I have the 3B+. Bought it and set up as a guide server for the CM DVR+. Not sure it could do double duty, or if the proc is fast enough. Will have to ck the specs. Synolgy is 2011 model DS211, hardly a powerhouse.


The Pi might be able to stream content, but if it has to transcode anything, I suspect it will fall on its face.


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## johnbrown44

Just read the same thing while doing a search. That explains why my NAS with it's 1.6GHz proc and 256MB RAM is so slow (with plex), to the point of not being usable. Looks like I'll just run the PC when using Plex, and let it sleep when not used.


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## dougdingle

johnbrown44 said:


> Just read the same thing while doing a search. That explains why my NAS with it's 1.6GHz proc and 256MB RAM is so slow, to the point of not being usable. Looks like I run the PC when using Plex, and let it sleep when not used.


Somewhere on the Plex site is a table listing the most commonly available NAS boxes, and their performance when streaming and transcoding at various resolutions. Before the Shield, I ran a TerraMaster 240 NAS box with 4Gb memory, and that worked fine but I did not use it for 4K content.


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## johnbrown44

Thanks for the info. I will browse the Plex site. Haven't used it much. Will be interesting to see if any NAS units have to juice to encrypt on the fly. Although I won't be upgrading to a new NAS just to get smooth Plex streaming. At an estimated cost of $200-$400+ for a faster NAS, I can buy an awful lot of electricity for my 8 core PC, which streams/transcodes 1080 50mbps 60p video as smooth as butter.

I did read that having video in the mkv format/wrapper will negate the need for Plex to transcode. Not sure if true, but a moot point, as I won't be converting my hundreds of video files to another format, even if it would be done in a few batches.

PlayOn has a feature where you can share selected folders of videos, much the same as Plex, but pre-renders and stores them elsewhere, as mpeg2 I believe. Again, a lot of needless messing around as far as I'm concerned. Perhaps Plex has a feature where it pre-renders the video, in which case the NAS could handle that. Probably will just use Plex on the PC, it works well.


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## johnbrown44

Had no luck with using an image to another drive with my S3. Boot loop.

It's "original" 1TB drive has 80 some thousand hours, so I assumed it was original. But the sticker on the back of the unit says TCD648250B, while my Tivo account page and the system information page have it as 648-0001-804B-****. Perhaps that's normal.

When it quit booting, I suspected more bad ps caps, but I cloned this now not working 1TB drive that was in it when I got it, and *was* working until a week ago, and the cloned drive booted normally. Repeatedly. I figure some bad sectors, but smart said no.

_*I reiterate that the clone that worked was from the drive that didn't.*_

Ended up trying a KS 57, 58,59, 76543210 (didn't care about TV shows on drive, which I believe 59 wipes). This worked, but I suspect, at 80+k hours, time to retire the drive. Did another clone of the clone that worked, TV shows intact.

Does one have to do a kickstart after placing a blank image on a drive? I've tried using 2 different images from a working 1TB drive, as well as the image from this site. All hang. Have tried putting them on various drives, to no avail.

If my 2 clones and my recently resurrected original drive boot OK, I will assume some other issue than bad caps.


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## HerronScott

dougdingle said:


> They disabled the reach-around 'push' function in the paid 'pro' version. You may be able to download to the TiVo using the TiVo's browse/pull feature, but you can't push anything to the TiVo from your computer as you once could because they disabled the server that did that. I only have TE3 here.


Ah only ever used the free version but other than losing that feature it works as it always has with TE3? I don't consider that that "crippling TiVo Desktop, then most other stuff also just stopped working" with TE3?

Scott


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## johnbrown44

Update on non-booting 648250B Series 3:

After replacing 4 caps initially 2 mos ago fixed slow (10 min) boot, unit worked fine. Stopped booting last week, replaced 3 more caps that were within tolerances, but higher ESR than new caps. No change, but power supply voltages under load had been OK prior.

What _DID _work was two methods: Clone non-working drive, which then booted normally,and run kickstarts KS 57, 58,59, and 76543210 on drive that quit booting. This seemed to rescue that drive.

Still haven't given up on trying to get an image to boot, either an image I create, or the downloaded one from user *ThAbtO* in the image thread. Surely I can't be the only one that images don't work?


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## dougdingle

HerronScott said:


> Ah only ever used the free version but other than losing that feature it works as it always has with TE3? I don't consider that that "crippling TiVo Desktop, then most other stuff also just stopped working" with TE3?
> 
> Scott


When you pay for the 'pro' version of the app to get the 'push content from my computer to the TiVo' feature (basically the only thing gained by paying for the app) and then the publisher stops supporting the function such that it turns back into the free app again, I consider that to be a crippling of the app for which I paid. Other software written by independent developers that relied on that feature also lost that functionality.

The feature wasn't a real 'push' - basically it worked by Desktop Pro talking to a TiVo server and having the TiVo server issue a 'pull' command to the TiVo for the content you wanted 'pushed' from the computer to the TiVo. It actually worked quite well, and then the aftermarket developers extended the feature by figuring out how to create folders on the TiVo for pushed content that didn't already have an assigned folder from TiVo. So if you had, say, nine videos from your kids' soccer games, you could push them to the TiVo and create a containing folder called "Kids' Soccer" instead of having nine separate files cluttering up the Now Playing display of content. It was a terrific feature which TiVo disabled by no longer allowing Desktop Pro users to log in to the push server. Since puling from the computer to the TiVo was (and is) still allowed, disabling that one Desktop Pro function made no sense to me or anyone.


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## ThAbtO

dougdingle said:


> When you pay for the 'pro' version of the app to get the 'push content from my computer to the TiVo' feature


Tivo Desktop already has the 'push', no matter if its the pro version or not. The pro version only adds more types of video, like .vob, .MKV, etc. otherwise its just .Tivo and .mpg.

However, the 'push' function no longer works and you have to initiate the transfer from the Tivo itself.


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## johnbrown44

Tivo crippled my 3 Series 3 DVRs. When I bought them used a few months ago, they would share and I believe able to download from the PC. Not sure if push or pull. Don't recall how exactly, but I have a few vids from my PC on the one S3 unit I kept. Gave 2 to bro, they crippled sharing on his as well.

They sent me some update apparently that prevented them from accessing my network. I now have i,i,i in the system file. I neglected to see what it was when it was working. Probably a,a,a. I complained, but they said "not supported." I let it go for the time being, as they disabled the network sharing to my 2 Edges and a Roamio. Didn't want to overwhelm them.

I nearly had to get belligerent to get them to escalate and get the newer units working. They kept wanting me to repeat network testing. Network was fine. They are now a,i,a,a. Everything works except the Edges won't play video downloaded from PC to Roamio. Play fine on Roamio. Is that not a feature?

Other users of Series 3 DVRs, are yours a,a,a or something else? I am ready to start hounding them to reinstate my network sharing of the S3.


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## dougdingle

I haven't has a Series 3 for years now, so can't help you there. I have a Roamio Pro and four Minis. The Roamio has not had a successful data load from the mothership since the third week in January, but keeps populating the guide 12-13 days out anyway; it connects and downloads the data, but can't finish loading it. Last time this happened, it was almost two years before it successfully connected and loaded the guide data. Two of my four Minis failed right around the five year mark, much like many others who have posted the same issue.

If I was a tinfoil hat kinda guy, I would suspect that TiVo is pushing users to dump old hardware and buy current stuff. I plan on limping along until the Roamio dies, and then it's strictly streaming devices for me.


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## johnbrown44

I have no doubt they are crippling the hardware.(via software) Either deliberately, or due to ineptitude. I suspect the former. As I mentioned, my S3s were sharing fine, then they sent something that crippled them. Then said not supported. It's downright fraud if you ask me, might be hard to prove. I won't buy any new Tivo stuff after my equipment dies, nor will I suggest it to others. A bad way to run a business. What's wrong with those people?


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## johnbrown44

Well, color me shocked. Looks like I may owe Tivo an apology. Against my better judgement, as my Roamio and 2 Edge boxes are sharing OK now, instead of leaving well enough alone, I decided to try the advertising/whatever "Opt Out." Some have said this breaks sharing/whole house, some say no. I did it yesterday.

Imagine my surprise when I looked at the Roamio OTA's System Info just now and saw a,a,a,a, instead of the a.i.a.a I have had for a month or so. And my Series 3 now can share/transfer with Roamio and Edge units. S3 was i,i,i for a couple months, no sharing with others. Now it is a,a,a.

2 Edge units are still a,i,a,a, and can't see the S3, but stream fine to/from Roamio. Will reboot and try some forced connections to see if it will see the S3.

S3 will transfer/share and play home videos that I transferred to the Roamio. Edge units see these videos on the Roamio, but will not play them.

So it looks like there is hope for Tivo after all. They fix problems, they just need some prodding and time.

Edit: Also, even though the Roamio can import camcorder home videos and TV programs recorded to PC via Hauppauge tuner, it can't play the TV program's AC3 audio. Plays video fine. Series 3 _can_ play this AC3 audio on these same files it imports. Roamio has no trouble with HD/AVC camcorder videos with PCM audio.


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## EvaWill

There is so much useful information on this forum that I am very grateful to you, friends. Of course, I read the forum for more than one hour, but I found the answer to my question.


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## mattack

Maybe summarize the exact problem you were having, and the solution, so the next person doesn't have to hunt for it?


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## johnbrown44

Not sure, I am new to Tivo. I'm on W7 and it sees my drive plugged in to an eSATA enclosure or directly to the motherboard via SATA cable.

You also need to delete the NTFS partition on the drive, and maybe do something else to the drive, don't recall right now. Info is on this sight somewhere. My experience here is that there is quite a bit of info, and I had to experiment with various methods to have any success, and it was a nightmare.

Are you saying this is an IDE drive? I understand Tivo can be picky about which drive it uses. And USB2 is going to be dog slow if you are cloning. If just installing an image not too bad. I have had NO success having any image work on my Series3. Rather than spend days trying to get it to work, I just clone the working drive. That has worked for me every time, on all my Tivos.

If it's any consolation, I have had a lot of trouble getting things to work as they are supposed to with drives.


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## TeevoDude

Hey Forum! I could use some help on something peculiar that started right after I upgraded the drive inside my TCD648250B. The unit now has a 2TB drive inside using WinMFS and an image generously provided by @ThAbtO (Thanks again!).

In the Account & System Information screen, it confirms that the drive now has 318 HD hours, BUT for some reason, after only a few days of use and only about 15 shows recorded, it is showing a few shows with the Yellow Dot with Exclamation Point.






This seems odd to me because before the drive upgrade, I never saw that happen with recorded shows UNLESS I was actually running out of space on the smaller drive. So, with 318 hours of HD space available, why would it mark those shows with the Yellow Dot/Exclamation Point when only a few days old and only about 15 shows on the newly replaced drive?

There is a link here at the TCF discussing the Yellow Dot/Exclamation Point in general terms, but I'm still confused after reading differing explanations. One member states, "The yellow dot with an exclamation point appears once the two-day period has passed as stated." But, prior to replacing the original drive, it did not follow this rule....and ALL my recordings were marked Keep Until Space is Needed.

I much prefer not seeing a Yellow Dot/Exclamation Point unless the hard drive is filling up and in danger of being deleted by the system to make space for newer recordings....like it was before the drive upgrade.

I'm curious if anyone can explain this situation as to why it's happening now and how to change it back to the prior warning method. I don't
see any value or benefit to Users in the current way with a huge list of shows with YDEP (my abbreviation) that get that designation only after 2 days of being recorded with TONS of space left on the 2TB drive.

Naturally, I'm wondering if it has something to do with the image used or WinMFS drive expansion process. I think it placed 4 partitions on the new 2TB drive when it expanded it. But, hopefully, it's just a setting that needs to be changed in the Tivo UI.

Please, I'm interested in anyone who can explain this better and/or has a similar experience and can tell me how to change it back.


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## ThAbtO

TeevoDude said:


> only a few days of use and only about 15 shows recorded, it is showing a few shows with the Yellow Dot with Exclamation Point.


This is normal. It just means they MIGHT be deleted for space ONCE the Recently deleted folder is emptied, followed by suggestions. They are always marked so after 3 days.


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## TeevoDude

Yes, I do understand that, but what I don't understand is WHY the change in the Tivo marking them after 3 days. This used not to be the case before the drive upgrade. Next, is there a way I can change this not to do this anymore?


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## ThAbtO

You could use KUID but then that would curse the Tivo to eventually stop recording when it thinks its full.


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## TeevoDude

ThAbtO said:


> You could use KUID but then that would curse the Tivo to eventually stop recording when it thinks its full.


Ha, no thanks! Definitely don't want to do that. It's just irritating. I might call Tivo tech support and see if they have an explanation for the change and a workaround. I have a hunch from working on Tivos that whenever the Tivo servers detect a change in hardware on any of their Tivo models, they seize the opportunity to download all the newest software such as TE3 to TE4 (when it sees you using TE3) and possibly changing "minor" things such as the 3-day rule on recordings marked with the YDEP.

Bottom line is that I like my TCD648250B for a number of reasons and want to keep it running as long as possible. I also like to keep as many features on it as possible operable and even new features would welcome. But, since it's a discontinued model and no longer "supported" by Tivo, I doubt they are doing much to the software if anything at all with system updates. Kinda like Microsoft doesn't support Windows 7 anymore with security updates or patches.


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## ThAbtO

Tivo no longer supports Series 3, so there is no more tech support for these models.

Basically, just ignore the yellow dots. I have always done so.


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## mattack

ThAbtO said:


> Tivo no longer supports Series 3, so there is no more tech support for these models.
> 
> Basically, just ignore the yellow dots. I have always done so.


though some of us have inadvertently lost shows due to that.. oops. I wish I could set everything to KUID with kmttg (AFAIK it doesn't do that?)

i.e. due to a different bug when trying to transfer a show BACK.

yes I live at the limit and it almost always says I'm "at 100%" but I know that's not really the case.
(darn, beginning of pandemic I was starting to eat into my backlog)


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## HerronScott

TeevoDude said:


> Yes, I do understand that, but what I don't understand is WHY the change in the Tivo marking them after 3 days. This used not to be the case before the drive upgrade. Next, is there a way I can change this not to do this anymore?


No idea as this was always how our S1's and S3's behaved. This did change when we moved to the Roamio but can't recall what the condition is that triggers when it changes. Something to do with the 1P I believe (@JoeKustra I believe knows).

Scott


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## dougdingle

Isn't there some sort of global setting for recordings where you can set the default condition for shows? 

If the OP does in fact live close the "I'M FULL!" edge of their drive, they have to expected that unexpected things will happen because the various algorithms are out of their control.


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## mattack

dougdingle said:


> Isn't there some sort of global setting for recordings where you can set the default condition for shows?


I think there's a setting where you can set the default for FUTURE OnePasses.. and e.g. I just went into create a new OP on my phone and there is a Keep Until setting there.. (though it was set to space needed.. though it did have my default one minute pre and one minute post pad)


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## ThAbtO

Yes, the options would be "until space is needed" or KUID.

The first couple of days, the new recordings get a blue/no dot, then turns into yellow, then yellow (!). This does NOT mean it will be deleted in so many days, ONLY when space is needed, AFTER the Recently deleted folder is empty, FOLLOWED by any suggestions.

Green dot is KUID.


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