# Widescreen switching and second TV



## philredman (Dec 13, 2001)

Guys

I just had a brand new widescreen LCD television delivered and have a widescreen problem that wasn't apparent on my old widescreen (non LCD) TV. I have a second 15" 4:3 upstairs and send the signal up direct from Tivo through a digisender. With the old TV I had the Sky box set to 4:3L and all seemed to cope OK. However, with the new TV, that setting works fine upstairs but the LCD displays exactly that: 4:3 letterbox. Setting 16:9 movie on the TV shows the TV programme OK, but totally mucks up the Tivo screens. Setting the Sky box to output 16:9 works fine on the LCD, but upstairs any widescreen programmes are distorted vertically to fit on the 4:3 screen.

I fear the only solution is to replace the upstairs TV with a 15" widescreen LCD or at least an LCD that will cope with the 16:9 input properly. However, any advice would be more than welcome.

Many thanks

Phil


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

Are you getting confused by how the Sky box determines the picture format to display?

If you set the main output on the Sky box to 16:9 and the RF2 output to 4:3L - then the picture format on both tvs is dependent on where you last changed channel.

For a real 16:9 picture on BBC1 - you would get the following:

If you changed to BBC1 on the upstairs tv - the upstairs tv would be fine but downstairs would be wrong (black bars top and bottom).

If you changed to BBC1 on thew downstairs tv - the downstairs tv would be fine but the upstairs tb would be wrong (tall people).

Is that what you are seeing?



Also, you don't say which make widescreen tv you now have - but I have found some Samsung tv's do not seem to handle 16:9 as others do. Often seeming to reset itself.


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## philredman (Dec 13, 2001)

ozsat said:


> If you changed to BBC1 on the upstairs tv - the upstairs tv would be fine but downstairs would be wrong (black bars top and bottom).
> 
> If you changed to BBC1 on thew downstairs tv - the downstairs tv would be fine but the upstairs tb would be wrong (tall people).
> 
> ...


The TV is a Philips. The upstairs TV gets it's input from the Digisender which is directly connected to the Tivo output thus upstairs will display whatever Tivo is sending out from the scart connector.

Hope this is clear.

Phil


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

My Digisender does not sent the 16:9 flag!

So setting the Sky box to 16:9 would give a squashed picture via Digisender.


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## philredman (Dec 13, 2001)

ozsat said:


> My Digisender does not sent the 16:9 flag!
> 
> So setting the Sky box to 16:9 would give a squashed picture via Digisender.


Mine does. Hence the tall people. Eurosport displays normally but any channel in 16:9 gives me tall people. Makes basketball fun


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

I use a couple of Sony 14" TV's over my videosenders, and they both have the option to display in letterbox mode.


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

Yes - the tall (squashed left/right) people - is a sign of the 16:9 flag not getting to the tv.

If the 16:9 flag is getting thru - then on a 4:3 tv - the tv should put in black borders at top and bottom.

If the 16:9 flag is getting thru - then on a 16:9 tv - the full screen should be used and the picture not squashed or stretched.



philredman said:


> Mine does. Hence the tall people. Eurosport displays normally but any channel in 16:9 gives me tall people. Makes basketball fun


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## philredman (Dec 13, 2001)

ozsat said:


> Yes - the tall (squashed left/right) people - is a sign of the 16:9 flag not getting to the tv.
> 
> If the 16:9 flag is getting thru - then on a 4:3 tv - the tv should put in black borders at top and bottom.
> 
> If the 16:9 flag is getting thru - then on a 16:9 tv - the full screen should be used and the picture not squashed or stretched.


I'm sure the 16:9 signal is getting through to th main TV but I'm getting tall people upstairs. If I change the skybox to 4:3L then I get the black borders on both TVs. I'm not sure the upstairs tele, a Philips 15" over 10 years old, is capable of interpreting 16:9 signals.


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

This is what should happen if you have no widescreen switching on your upstairs 4:3 tv but correct switching downstairs on 16:9 tv.

Set the Sky box to 16:9 and put it on Sky News:
downstairs tv has full screen in use with no distortion
upstairs tv has full screen in use but picture is squashed in from left/right (tall people)

Set the Sky box to 4:3 and put it on Sky News:
downstairs tv has bars left and right - bit with no distortion
upstairs tv has full screen in use and no picture distortion

Set the Sky box to 4:3L and put it on Sky News:
downstairs tv has bars left and right and top and bottom - bit with no distortion
upstairs tv has bars top and bottom - but no distrotion

If that is what happens, then there is no w/s switching signal getting to, or being actioned by, the upstairs tv.


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## philredman (Dec 13, 2001)

I'll give that a go later. Further investigation has pointed to the SCART switch in use upstairs that may be preventing the swtching signal getting through. I'll plug the Digisender SCART straight into the TV and see what happens then.

Cheers


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## sanderton (Jan 4, 2002)

Digisenders don't usually send the WS switch signal.

If you run your STB in letterboxed mode, you will be seriously compromising the picture quality on your new TV.

You need to either get used to squashed people on your remote TV, or get a new second telly which can cope with 16:9 (that was my solution to the same problem; good excuse for a new telly!)


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

The digisender only sends the composite video signal.
This will support wide screen switching information on line 23 of the picture (only on a couple of odd ball channels use this method).

All the others change of voltage on pin 8 of the scart plug which is only getting to your main TV.

Automan.


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

Automan said:


> The digisender only sends the composite video signal.
> This will support wide screen switching information on line 23 of the picture (only on a couple of odd ball channels use this method).
> 
> All the others change of voltage on pin 8 of the scart plug which is only getting to your main TV.
> ...


The only aspect ratio switching officially supported by Sky boxes is SCART pin 8 voltage switching - which is not carried by any videosenders I have come across, and is ignored by many DVD recorders and VCRs (though some do respond to it). It is NOT carried by the RF output of a Sky box.

Line 23 WSS - which uses the full top line of the analogue half-line (analogue broadcasts are 575i - two x 287.5 line fields - but digital broadcasts don't blank the half lines and are 576i - two x 288 line fields) to carry data describing the aspect ratio both of the signal and the active picture (it can signal 4:3 pillarbox in 16:9 or 14:9 letterbox in 4:3 for example) - IS carried by composite, RF, s-video and survives VHS recording. It SHOULD be generated locally, by the receiver or DVD player, and many Freeview boxes support it. However Sky boxes don't support line 23 - and don't insert it.

Some Sky receivers (Panasonic and Pace Sky+ but not regular Pace) boxes don't blank line 23 (most Sky boxes do) - and Line 23 is often used internally by broadcasters to carry widescreen signalling information - which means some rogue line 23 information can survive - but this isn't always correct...

Bottom line - if you are using anything other than the TV SCART output of a Sky box you won't get the correct automatic widescreen switching from your Sky box if you have a 16:9 display and want to watch 16:9 in 16:9 and 4:3 in 4:3. If you have a 16:9 display connected via RF then you will have to manually switch display modes. If you have a 4:3 display that supports letterboxing of 16:9 signals then you can force this, otherwise you need to get used to tall thin people, or switch the secondary display aspect ratio to 4:3 centre cut or letterbox. (However Tivo will then switch this back if it performs a channel change, via the IR blaster to the main IR sensor, if the primary display is 16:9)


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## philredman (Dec 13, 2001)

Thanks for your help everybody. It looks like the only option is to get a new TV upstairs. Now how to get that one past the boss.

Cheers

Phil


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