# Unoffical/Official Info on the Lease Movement



## ddrumer (Dec 3, 2004)

Some of this maybe a repost but i thought you guys might want a boost and with some Updated info.

Lease Fee will replace Mirroring Fee for Leased equipment @ $4.99. Owners of equipment will pay the mirroring fee still. DTV will not replace owned equipment with leased equipment if replaced through their ERP/Receiver Exchange program. 

The new Equipment Prices for Existing Custs to Lease:

Standard IRD: $49 w/1 year commitment
DVR: $99 w/2 year commitment
HD: $99 w/2 year commitment
HD-DVR $499 w/2 year commitment

The New Equipment Prices for Exisiting Custs to Own (will still be an Option):

Standard IRD: $149 w/no commitment
DVR: $349 w/no commitment
HD: $349 w/no commitment
HD-DVR: $749 w/no commitment

(we were told these are the at cost prices so no commitment)

The Really Good news: Who Cares they will send out an equipment recovery kit at no cost when you are done with the equipment for each receiver. 

The Really, Really Good News: For leased equipment No more installation Fees.

New cust Equipment is basically the same for Advanced Products, but it is still 4 Rooms Free and the advanced products are eligible for a $100 MIR across the board, only one per account, no matter how may advanced products ordered. 

Also, replacement, repairing goes the same for Owned Equipment, Business as usual.

One Last Note: The Lease fee covers replacement of the IRD only, not remote, not access card, dish, wiring, just the Box. The Protection Plan will add in all of that coverge and will be just $5.99 for Standard and Advanced. No More $7.99. Current Custs will be eligible for the $5.99 rate with Advanced products on the account but you must call in to ask for it and if you are in your first year of subscribing to it you will get a 1 yr comitment to the PP at the new rate. Once out of existing 1 yr has passed you can change w/out the commitment at the new rate

I hope this Helps, again sorry if its a repost, but i thought i might be a bit more in depth.

ddrumer


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## ddrumer (Dec 3, 2004)

Oh, and i almost forgot:

The unreturned Equipment Fees for the leased Equipment are Cheaper than the New at Cost price and if paid, the equipment is owned. Now, if not paid.

I the unreturned equipment charge is charged to an account (w/in 7 days after the 21st day requiment to have the equipment sent back, I think these dates are right, but something like it) and not paid or equipment returned after the 288th day you will be stuck with the charged, DTV will not credit it past that mark, reguardless if thet get the ird back. 

Moral, Get you friend with bad credit to get receivers, go into collections charge the fee, 288th day give you the equipment and its owned by you and its HIS credit thats messed up. Just thought you needed to know, however impractical it may be!!!!!!!

Everyone Have a Great Day!

ddrumer


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

Am I missing something?

What I see from the above is:
- Lease, pay the current ownership price up front, pay the same monthly receiver fee, but you don't own the equipment.
- Buy, and pay way more than we do now.

This is total junk. I don't see any scenario where this is better for consumers.

I'm glad I have all I need to carry me over to FIOS TV.

DirecTV continues to make decisions that will lose high-end customers (and probably other types).


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## Tonedeaf (Sep 24, 2004)

I am sure that retention will still be a good resource for discounted equipment going forward.


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## DavidS (Sep 27, 2000)

Amazingly bad deal at these published prices.


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## jim tressler (Jan 2, 2004)

directv makes me scratch my head more and more every day!


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## Bill R (Jan 10, 2003)

jim tressler said:


> directv makes me scratch my head more and more every day!


Me too. You have to wonder if they are even looking at the other vendors' (DISH, cable and FiOS TV) deals. Right now, EVERY vendor offers look better than DirecTVs'. The fact that their new receivers aren't TiVos is going to hurt them too.


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## canoebuildah (Apr 15, 2004)

Okay, if the above is correct, then I actually feel smart for switching to Adelphia from DTV last week. I got a dual tuner, HDTV PVR with 90 hours SD capacity and I pay $8.95/mo for the rental fee with no commitment. 

If I wanted the same from DTV, I would have to pay $499 plus $9.99/mo, AND not get local HD channels for at least a year since I am in a small market area.

Adelphia is also giving me a $200 check in four weeks for turning in my Dish and receiver. I kept my two DTivo's just in case or to sell later.

I know that this PVR is not a Tivo but its few shortcomings are easy to bear considering my savings.

Chris


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## ddrumer (Dec 3, 2004)

The excuse for the two year commitment was to align themselves with the Cell phone Industry.

As far as Adelphia is concerned, the only thing i know is that cust's say Adelphia is very inept more than once a day. But hey, I am, and always be about the best deal and the right deal for you. DTV net more gain than loss so they don't care all that much. I personally agree that the prices are stupid, but i promise as of Wednesday they are correct.


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## scalo (Dec 28, 2004)

What am I missing? I don't see any change in what I am paying now, I will not have a lease fee because I own all of my equipment and I will continue to pay the same mirroring fee that I am paying now. Right now I have TC+ with 4 DVR's and pay roughly $57.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

ddrumer said:


> The excuse for the two year commitment was to align themselves with the Cell phone Industry.


But DirecTV does not sell cell phones and the long commitments are a constant source of irritation and complaints for customers???


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## ddrumer (Dec 3, 2004)

Then stop complaining and pay the cost of the equipment


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## Mark W (Dec 6, 2001)

This info can't be right. It doesn't make sense. I thought the whole idea of the leasing was to be able to compete with the cable co's free equipment? This sounds really stupid to me.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

ddrumer said:


> Then stop complaining and pay the cost of the equipment


I have no problem paying the cost of the equipment. Crap I paid $899 (using VE's pre-order discount) for my HR10-250 and my monthly bill is like $110 without any sports packages, but surely DirecTV's costs are not going up overnight? Why are their prices?

Like others said, if they cause their prices to rise to a level above competors, it will hurt them. I can see going to a lease if there is some perceived benefit to teh customer, but this seems like they are getting you coming and going.


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## nesby (Feb 7, 2006)

I have a hard time believing this is true. If they are then DTV is in my rearview mirror.


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## john-duncan-yoyo (Oct 13, 2004)

nesby said:


> I have a hard time believing this is true. If they are then DTV is in my rearview mirror.


I think these are the prices where negotiations start.

Somehow I doubt if they will stick with this for very long. I give it six months.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

In the cell phone industry they only let you upgrade every two years. Is that what they are tryin got do here. If I lease a system and two months a really cool system comes. I cant sell the system on ebay because I dont own it and I cant upgrade.

I dont see any clarity on upgrades inside of committment.


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## skaeight (Jan 20, 2004)

Maybe d* is getting commision on every series 3 tivo sold, and this is their plan to drum up sales?????


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

This can't possibly be true, can it?

I knew they were moving to a lease model, but I would have never thought that a lease model would require paying up-front for equipment.

If true, this makes them even less attractive than cable.

Current cable model:

- No upfront cost for equipment.
- Pay monthly lease fees for equipment.

Current DirecTV model:

- Pay upfront cost to purchase and own equipment.
- No monthly lease fees for equipment.

New DirecTV mode:

- Pay upfront cost to lease equipment you will never own.
- Pay monthly lease fees for equipment.

Dumb.

I guess if DirecTV keeps going this route that eventually DirecTV will only be a reasonable option for those who can't receive cable. Cable keeps getting better and better and it seems DirecTV keeps getting worse and worse.

Comcast (in the Chicago market) + proposed Tivo Series 3 > DirecTV + proposed HR20-250.

This seems to finalize my decision. If /when the Tivo Series 3 comes out, I will be moving to Comcast after 10 years as a DirecTV customer and evangelist. Even if it costs me 20% more.


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## jcricket (Sep 11, 2002)

SpankyInChicago said:


> This can't possibly be true, can it?
> 
> I knew they were moving to a lease model, but I would have never thought that a lease model would require paying up-front for equipment.
> 
> If true, this makes them even less attractive than cable.


I'm with you Spanky. It makes no sense to me either.

With cable you pay nothing for the equipment up-front but they tack on a fee for the equipment to your monthly bill. If they come out with some cool new box, you can just start leasing that.

With DirecTV, like you said, you have up until now paid something for the equipment up-front, and then nothing for the equipment on the monthly bill. You had a contract so they could make up for the equipment subsidy in your monthly service fees. Just like cellular service.

Now DirecTV is proposing you pay a slightly-lower (but still very high in the case of the HD-DVR) price for your satellite box up-front but still they tack on a fee for the equipment?

*WTF? No way will I that. * I'm not giving them a dime for equipment up-front if I also have to pay a leasing fee. Especially not for the in-house DVRs they develop. If the up-front fee was some nominal amount ($50-100) I'd consider it, but D* is out of their ****ing mind with this proposal.


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## beanpoppa (Jan 7, 2004)

There is no additional monthly fee compared to what you are paying now. What you pay as a $5 mirroring fee for each receiver becomes a $5 lease fee for a new customer, or an existing customer who replaces equipment under this model. The only difference to us is that we never own the equipment, and can never sell it down the line. I don't think that this is intended to have any affect on customers' experience. I think it's purely a balance sheet accounting trick to make their numbers look more attactive.

I do agree it's a dumb leasing model. With cable, I can pay $2 for a basic receiver, $5 for a more advanced receiver, or $10 for a high end HD DVR receiver on a monthly basis, with no acquision cost for any. D* is just front-end loading the difference.



jcricket said:


> I'm with you Spanky. It makes no sense to me either.
> 
> With cable you pay nothing for the equipment up-front but they tack on a fee for the equipment to your monthly bill. If they come out with some cool new box, you can just start leasing that.
> 
> ...


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

let's look at the good news. For us that own, as long as our stuff already, shouldn't matter much right? Boy do i pity the new folks or ones that want any of the new equipment. Wonder how E*s been doing with this model?

Ok i'm the optimist  What can I say?


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## ddrumer (Dec 3, 2004)

I will put this as bluntly as I can. I was told these would be the prices. I was in a small room with about 20 other CSRs. We were told this was to help DTV cut down on production costs. I mean, think about it: 

1. We are a minority, the average person could care less, owned or leased. 
Its amazing how many ppl don't even realize that the equipment is theirs. Those are the ones that have runied it for us. DTV said they have done a lot of polling b4 running with the lease option.

2. DTV is Greedy, but what business isn't. I was at St. Simons Island this w/e and they have Adelphia. I could barely watch the women's curling (oh how low they can go!! : ) ) 

What is going to piss me off?????? Easy, the fact that when I order suspected Brand new equipment, chances are great that a new cust or existing cust will the Refurbed Equipment. 

I'm loyal, mostly b/c I'm on the inside, they keep my rent paid!!! (Very Important) and b/c I really do understand the reasons, I don't like it, but I understand. 

If anyone here owns their own business, you can guarentee that you would look for a way to make you bottom line higher and by doing so you only piss off a mere 10% of your cust's with the knowledge you will have that many and then some in a years time.

Its business.

ddrumer


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

if you really are on the inside i'm sure we'd all love the scoop as to why so many of us need to call in to get the 20 month off TCP for 6 months we've been promised even after it's printed right on the statement!! I think it's a plausible deniability thing. They say it's on there in writing so they aren't scamming you but then when it doesn't show up in the amounts, you are forced to call in.

and if you say it's not intentional, then it's still a fact that someone isn't doing their job because I personally had the problem at least 5 times and there's the whole thread on here about it.


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## ddrumer (Dec 3, 2004)

Can't imagine why you would go off topic, but to each their own:

The 6 mos off deal works perfectly every 12 mos. You see, its not quality critical not to offer a 6 mos discount immediatly following the exit of a 6 mos discount but we are instructed to try not to. The system works perfectly the first 6 mos, then when we add it on within the 12 month commitment it adds on the first time and then will not add on any more, we honor the offer but why it hasn't been fix, you guess is as good as mine.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

I didn't mean consecutive. It was more than a year between both my times. And both times I had to call virtually every month. It perplexes me to no end why it said it on the statement yet never came off. Finally common sense prevailed and they gave me the 100 bucks all up front after calmly explaining it's gonna make her happy and me happy to just give it all to me nown so I dont have to call every month.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

Man, I am really on the fence right now to by a second HR10-250 with this news. I think I will go ahead and call retention this week to see what I can get. The only issue is that it would replace a SDDVR running 6.2 and I am not sure I can stand teh wife complaining about another slow HD DVR.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Lee L said:


> Man, I am really on the fence right now to by a second HR10-250 with this news. I think I will go ahead and call retention this week to see what I can get. The only issue is that it would replace a SDDVR running 6.2 and I am not sure I can stand teh wife complaining about another slow HD DVR.


yea but 2x the HD should quell any difficulties


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

You know, I could live with the lease model if it were not for the upfront cost. Why would I want to give them $99 upfront when I could go to cable and not pay anything upfront. My guess is that the $99 upfront is equivilant to them charging you for installation. I also bet that the first thing you will be able to negotiate away is that $99 fee. I did DISH for awhile on their lease plan (before they decided to play hardball with the Yankees over YES), and I actually liked it. If the equipment breaks, they replace, if they have newer equipment, you can turn in your old to replace. Just like with cable. One of the things that will probably hold me back from jumping to Cablevision when I finally plunk down the bucks for HD, is that I invisted all this money in equipment, that if I switch, I am stuck with (yeah, I could sell on ebay for a fraction of what I paid, but still...) Now if I have to lease, it will make that decsion that much easier, plus by jumping, I could get HD MSG and FoxSportNet NY, which D* doesn't carry.


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

Steveknj said:


> You know, I could live with the lease model if it were not for the upfront cost. Why would I want to give them $99 upfront when I could go to cable and not pay anything upfront.


Direct and to the point. Well said. I know this is how I feel. And I believe most others feel this way as well.

If I am going to pay cash up front for a unit, it better be a high quality unit (Tivo Series 3) and I better own the thing.

If you want to unload a 3rd rate product on me that I will never own, you better not expect me to pay upfront for it.


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## jcricket (Sep 11, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> You know, I could live with the lease model if it were not for the upfront cost. Why would I want to give them $99 upfront when I could go to cable and not pay anything upfront.


I agree completely.

Cable = Pay nothing up-front, pay $10-15/month for the equipment. That's around $150/year per box, really. If the equipment breaks, they replace it free. If it's obsoleted in 2-years (seems likely these days), you can get a new one for free. Even after three years you're only out $450.

DirecTV lease proposal = Pay $500 up-front. Then pay $5/month (replaces mirroring fee) for the equipment "lease". 2 years out you've paid $650 for the equipment. Three years out you're at $800. How is this better?

If you could realistically say that an HD-DVR had a usable lifespan of 5 years, then D* might be more attractive. But we all know that there will be a new HD-DVR we'll want every two years or so. Only the tiniest minority of early adopters would rush out to spend $500+ up-front on a new receiver knowing they're going to replace it in a couple of years.

Given that cable and satellite programming packages are about the same in content + cost, why would you choose satellite (unless you can't get cable) with up-front costs and leasing costs?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

SpankyInChicago said:


> Direct and to the point. Well said. I know this is how I feel. And I believe most others feel this way as well.
> 
> If I am going to pay cash up front for a unit, it better be a high quality unit (Tivo Series 3) and I better own the thing.
> 
> If you want to unload a 3rd rate product on me that I will never own, you better not expect me to pay upfront for it.


To me it's like going to Avis and paying $99 on top of the rental fee for the car? Why would I want do to that if Hertz is charging nothing on top. Plus the rental fees for cable seem slightly less than what D* is planning. I hope whoever it is that posted this thread, who says they work for D* is taking this back to them. I don't think E* is charging an upfront charge, are they?

Now I could understand this if they wanted to say the $99 is a security deposit which you lose if you don't return the equipment, but that's not what this sounds like.


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## SteelersTiVo (Aug 18, 2005)

I never thought that I would say this but if it wasn't for the NFLST then I would probably be going back to TWC.  

I don't think that they can bank on a big % of subs feeling this way though...

Being a former TWC DVR owner, I hope the new version, H20 is better than a basic DVR because it will be tough to go backwards after stepping up to using the D*TiVo which despite its issues is pretty


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## scimini (Jan 10, 2006)

I may have misunderstood but from what I got from the meeting info was that only credit problem customer would have to pay the upfront costs in the leasing modes.

Maybe they pay higher upfront costs. It was not that clear.


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## john-duncan-yoyo (Oct 13, 2004)

scimini said:


> I may have misunderstood but from what I got from the meeting info was that only credit problem customer would have to pay the upfront costs in the leasing modes.
> 
> Maybe they pay higher upfront costs. It was not that clear.


That would make more much more sense. These things would need to be easily waved for them to be attractive. Those prices are roughly the same as they are in the current purchase mode.

I wonder how much equiptment will never be recoverd by DTV because it won't be worth the cost.


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## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

ddrumer said:


> Some of this maybe a repost but i thought you guys might want a boost and with some Updated info.
> 
> Lease Fee will replace Mirroring Fee for Leased equipment @ $4.99. Owners of equipment will pay the mirroring fee still. DTV will not replace owned equipment with leased equipment if replaced through their ERP/Receiver Exchange program.
> 
> ...


Who is calling this a "lease" option? You don't "lease" something that you just bought (if you're paying $499 for the equipment, you are buying it). If DirecTV is actually calling this a "lease" option I will demand I pay nothing up front if I don't get to own the equipment...otherwise I'll go to Comcast for my HD. If I was leasing a car I wouldn't pay for the car up front plus make monthly lease payments as well. Thats not how leases work. And whats with the 2 year commitment?


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## ddrumer (Dec 3, 2004)

scimini said:


> I may have misunderstood but from what I got from the meeting info was that only credit problem customer would have to pay the upfront costs in the leasing modes.
> 
> Maybe they pay higher upfront costs. It was not that clear.


Good point, but then you have to remember that the "Yes" Offer. For those who don't know what that is:

Cust's who credit comes back poorly are required to pay an additional Equipment Purchase fee. $200 for standard equipment and $300 for Advanced. They will get this back in a programming credit of $10 for 20 or 30 consecutive months. This will occur as long as the account remains in good standing.

I don't know what the new offer will be. everyday to roll out answers to different csr's questions.

Everyone, I will check and post tomorrow to reverify only because I know that will make many ppl feel better. If I am wrong i will Apologize, but don't count on it 

ddrumer


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## Blurayfan (Oct 6, 2003)

In regards to the 6 Month Premiere package not giving the credit as promised. I have this promo running right now and for two more months. It has posted the credit every month.
*NOTE:* The credit does not apply on the statement print up date, but rather monthly from the date of the first credit.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

ddrumer said:


> Good point, but then you have to remember that the "Yes" Offer. For those who don't know what that is:
> 
> Cust's who credit comes back poorly are required to pay an additional Equipment Purchase fee. $200 for standard equipment and $300 for Advanced. They will get this back in a programming credit of $10 for 20 or 30 consecutive months. This will occur as long as the account remains in good standing.
> 
> ...


So, you are saying that someone with excellent credit, can get a HR10-250 for $0.00 up front and only have to pay the $5.99/month lease fee?

Now that, I could get behind. Much more like cable, and might actually make some sense.


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## SteelersTiVo (Aug 18, 2005)

Dnamertz said:


> If I was leasing a car I wouldn't pay for the car up front plus make monthly lease payments as well. Thats not how leases work.


Acutally, this is how car leases work in that you have to pay $1K or more down plus the monthly payments in order to lease. You negotiate both prices down in order to pay the lowest amount for the car but you do have to pay at least some $ down on most car leases.

Hopefully, this is not the business model that they are following. :down:

The posts that talk about bad credit customers paying up front makes more sense and will keep many customers  unless of course you have bad credit.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Dnamertz said:


> If I was leasing a car I wouldn't pay for the car up front plus make monthly lease payments as well. Thats not how leases work. And whats with the 2 year commitment?


I never leased a car (why is for another thread) so help me out here. Are you saying when you lease there is no downpayment? Now I think I understand why so many lease. That indeed would be a great deal just paying 219 a month for a new caddy or whatever they advertise. Of course in 4 years you have nothing to show for it and must give it back.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

SteelersTiVo said:


> The posts that talk about bad credit customers paying up front makes more sense and will keep many customers  unless of course you have bad credit.


Thankfully I dont have to worry about that but I do wonder, why does bad credit matter? If they make all the service paid up front per month, the most they would ever be out would be 2 months. Shame on them if they ever let someone go past 2 months without turning off service. That's THEIR problem. They hold the switch in their hands, not the customer.


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## Tonedeaf (Sep 24, 2004)

SteelersTiVo said:


> Acutally, this is how car leases work in that you have to pay $1K or more down plus the monthly payments in order to lease. You negotiate both prices down in order to pay the lowest amount for the car but you do have to pay at least some $ down on most car leases.
> 
> Hopefully, this is not the business model that they are following. :down:
> 
> The posts that talk about bad credit customers paying up front makes more sense and will keep many customers  unless of course you have bad credit.


I have leased cars for 6 years now and not once have I put down any money on it. I negotiate the best price for the car before telling the finance folks that I want to lease it with $0 down. Being armed with the information of how much the lease "should" be with zero down is the best thing to do so they cannot hide any costs in the paperwork. There are many different calculators out there that can give you the bottom line payment for whatever price you are targeting.


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## Boston Fan (Feb 8, 2006)

newsposter said:


> Thankfully I dont have to worry about that but I do wonder, why does bad credit matter? If they make all the service paid up front per month, the most they would ever be out would be 2 months. Shame on them if they ever let someone go past 2 months without turning off service. That's THEIR problem. They hold the switch in their hands, not the customer.


The financial model they use is to recoup their upfront costs (equipment, installation, etc.) through the use of the commitment period. If a subscriber does not fulfill their commitment period, D* never gets back the initial costs of activating that subscriber. This is more likely to happen with people with poor credit, as is the likelihood that a subscriber with poor credit will not pay the termination fee.

Thus, by requiring more money from those subscribers at activation, they protect themselves from potential losses.


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## jcricket (Sep 11, 2002)

Even if you do put a down payment on your car, it amounts to 5-10% of the purchase price. So, if you pay $1000 down and $200/month on a $20,000 car for 5 years, you've paid $13,000 at the end of 5 years. Then you get a new car, which is nice. It would take you nearly 
8 years to pay the full $20,000 for the car.

If you buy the car and finance it over 5 years, you end up paying more than $20,000, including interest, but then you own the car. Still, it takes you 3 more years before the "ownership" model is really cheaper (since you shelled out less during those 5 years for the lease).

This is why the Cable leasing option is attractive for $500+ HD DVRs. You pay nothing down, and it takes you 4 years to "pay" $500 for the box, at which time something else has probably replaced it in terms of functionality.

If you have to pay D* $500 up-front (which is like 50-75% of the purchase price) and pay a lease cost, you never "recoup" the cost (there's never a period where you're not paying for the box). Plus you won't likely keep the HR10 or upcoming HR20 for 4 years.

I just can't see this flying. $50 upfront? Even $99 might be fine. And I'm fine with a contract (like cell phone companies). Anything more is just an losing situation for consumers.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Boston Fan said:


> as is the likelihood that a subscriber with poor credit will not pay the termination fee.


I forgot about termination fees and the up front subsidies. Of course next month no one has to worry about that as it's all up front loaded fees!


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

SteelersTiVo said:


> Acutally, this is how car leases work in that you have to pay $1K or more down plus the monthly payments in order to lease. You negotiate both prices down in order to pay the lowest amount for the car but you do have to pay at least some $ down on most car leases.


This is not entirely true. On a car lease the upfront payment is generally composed of two pieces: sales tax and the buy down. Sales tax is obvious and you can't get around it. However, the buy down (or downpayment) is not mandatory. It serves only to lower the monthly payments that follow. If you have decent enough credit you will have the option of going with a buy down or not going with it.


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## Naggs (Nov 8, 2003)

jcricket said:


> I agree completely.
> 
> Cable = Pay nothing up-front, pay $10-15/month for the equipment. That's around $150/year per box, really. If the equipment breaks, they replace it free. If it's obsoleted in 2-years (seems likely these days), you can get a new one for free. Even after three years you're only out $450.
> 
> ...


This exact breakdown is why I left Directv for Comcast when I bought my HDTV and wanted a HDDVR. It kills me to not have Tivo, but I could not justify the cost. I would still have Directv if I didn't have HD, but Comcast is definitely a better deal for me and my HDDVR situation.


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## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

newsposter said:


> I never leased a car (why is for another thread) so help me out here. Are you saying when you lease there is no downpayment?


You can make a down payment, or no down payment, when you lease a car. But in my analogy I was not talking about leasing a car with a down payment...I was talking about paying the FULL sticker price up front plus making monthly payments on the car. That is what this new "lease" program is like. $499 up front cost for the HD-DVR is not a "down payment"...that is the price you can buy it for now!!! So you'll be paying FULL price for the box (that you won't own) and making monthly lease payments. Bad deal!!!


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## dbett (Aug 13, 2001)

[Checks if Comcast's Tivo unit is available yet].


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## phodg (Mar 18, 2002)

> Comcast (in the Chicago market) + proposed Tivo Series 3 > DirecTV + proposed HR20-250.


I feel the same way. I've also been a DirecTV customer for 10 years but I'll probably be gone when the Series 3 comes out.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Dnamertz said:


> That is what this new "lease" program is like. $499 up front cost for the HD-DVR is not a "down payment"...that is the price you can buy it for now!!! So you'll be paying FULL price for the box (that you won't own) and making monthly lease payments. Bad deal!!!


ok then what do you call the 749 actual own price if the 499 is the full price


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## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

newsposter said:


> ok then what do you call the 749 actual own price if the 499 is the full price


I call that jacking up their prices. Today you can BUY the unit for $599 ($399 after rebate) from DirecTV, Best Buy, Circuit City, etc, so I call $499 six days from now "FULL PRICE"...and paying a monthly fee on top of full price is ridiculous. They should not call this a lease plan, they should just tell us they are raising their prices...a lot.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

Mark W said:


> This info can't be right. It doesn't make sense. I thought the whole idea of the leasing was to be able to compete with the cable co's free equipment? This sounds really stupid to me.


Nah...the idea was to improve their (DirecTV's) balance sheet.


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## ddrumer (Dec 3, 2004)

Lee L said:


> So, you are saying that someone with excellent credit, can get a HR10-250 for $0.00 up front and only have to pay the $5.99/month lease fee?
> 
> Now that, I could get behind. Much more like cable, and might actually make some sense.


no . . . No . . . NO. Re-read. And read this. Unfortunately i did some checking and the prices I posted are not for the "Credit Challenged." You will still have to pay the equipment prices.

Here's the thing:

New cust's will still get 4 rooms free (standard) and then advanced products at the posted prices. Then they will be eligible for one $100 rebate towards advanced products no matter how many purchased.

There will no longer be an install charge for upgrades like there has been for, . . . . I say, a year. Someone else posted and i will confim, these will be the negotiable prices. We have been instructed to try not to give free equipment, but of course we still can. I'd expect i will be giving away lots of dvrs and hds.

For everyone:

The current HD-DVR offer, $599 (-$200 MIR) + $99 Install Charge + S&H. 
Now the new offer: $499 + S&H.

Its easy to see its the same price, essentially. Only thing is now DTV will want the HD-DVR back instead of holding on to it/selling it on ebay.

Anyways only 4 days left until all our info changes over for me to be able to ans specific questions.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

ddrumer said:


> For everyone:
> 
> The current HD-DVR offer, $599 (-$200 MIR) + $99 Install Charge + S&H.
> Now the new offer: $499 + S&H.
> ...


um...isn't there a monthly rental fee too? So it's not the same.


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## Jotas (Mar 19, 2005)

IF these prices actually stick, that's crazy! It seems that D* loves to annoy people!


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

ddrumer said:


> no . . . No . . . NO. Re-read. And read this. Unfortunately i did some checking and the prices I posted are not for the "Credit Challenged." You will still have to pay the equipment prices.
> 
> Here's the thing:
> 
> ...


Thanks for checking. You certainly seem a little more on teh ball than soem I have talked to at D*.

While, they may think the cost is the same, in practice, right now you can get a HR10-250 for $450 or less befre rebate, bringing the cost well down below what it will be under the new program. Until we see what outside dealers are able to do, we will not know just how much of a true increase this is.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2006)

This seems outragous to me that I would have to paid 499.00 upfront and still pay a monthly leasing fee.

I can go to newegg right now an puchase a HR10-250 for 498.00 plus 18.11 for 2nd day. After my 200 rebate I will have paid only around 300 and I own the equipment. So how can DTV after 3/1/06 charge 499 and say it is a good deal?

I would love to hear their answer for that one.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

equipment recovery cost? I really have no idea but if there is no provision for prorated returns, even with a penalty, i can't see them getting any new people to sign up


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2006)

I also stopped in Curcuit City and Best Buy today to see if they had any additional info on DTV's new leasing program, none of the sales staff nor management had known of the lease option that are coming within 4 days...

They asked me how I found out about it and went to a computer to look it up online.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

And how much is a LEASED HD DVR from the cable companies a month? Does such an animal exist? Does anyone know what the Cablevision deal is on those things? For me it's either D* or CV once I get my HDTV, and I'm finally willing to bite the bullet on all my purchased equipment rather than have to Lease equipment on top of paying for it up front too.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

Usually $10 per month with nothing up front.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> And how much is a LEASED HD DVR from the cable companies a month? Does such an animal exist? Does anyone know what the Cablevision deal is on those things? For me it's either D* or CV once I get my HDTV, and I'm finally willing to bite the bullet on all my purchased equipment rather than have to Lease equipment on top of paying for it up front too.


Here's the Cablevision scoop:

*Equipment:* Scientific Atlanta 8300HD 
*Monthly DVR Service Fee:* $9.95 
*Monthly Rental Fee:* $5.74 
*Installation Cost:* $0.00 if box picked up at a walk-in center and self-installed, otherwise $49.95

*What if you want an additional box?* New box is $9.95 + $5.74. The DVR service fee is PER BOX, not per account. In addition, a $1.50 is charged on the account for "additional outlet". This is kind of like the mirror-fee, saying you are duplicating programming packages on the 2nd and al future boxes on the account.

*Required Programming Package:* Basic ($13.58/month) or higher. This is only the SD locals plus HD locals, a few shopping and public access chanels. Next package up is an add on, the Family Package ($31.37). These two packages have no digital channels other than HD locals, and don't even provide an interactive channel guide.

*Required Programming Package to have a DVR that can record an entire series:* iO Navigation Package. This is $4.95, and gets you the interactive channel guide, the Music Choice channels, and on-demand channels. You need this package in order to tell the DVR to record an entire series, because the only way to do that is from the guide. Without this package, the SA8300HD is essentially a digital VCR that only works with manual recording.

*Alternative Programing Packages:* For $9.95 more, the iO package includes the Navigation package plus all of the other digital channels (C-SPAN 3, ESPNnews, MTV Hits, etc.)

*Why do I know this?* After reading this thread this week, I decided to check out Cablevision's HD offerings just to see what the SA 8300 HD can do.

The funniest thing is when I called Cablevision to ask what kind of DVR they had, the first guy of course said it was a Scientific Atlanta "partnered with TiVo"! That got me excited, but after his next two sentences I knew he was smoking crack. His line: "But sir, TiVo is a DVR, and we have a DVR!" I say: Bulls***t!!! Don't sell me somethin you don't have!

Anyway, I picked it up yesterday, and because I am forced to pay Cablevision through my condo's common fees, it's only costing me the $9.95 DVR fee + $5.74 rental fee + $4.95 Navigation fee. After having the box two days, I can say I think it pretty much sucks, and in no way compares to the HR10-250. For $20 a month, it's ok as a backup, but the features really pale next to what TiVo offers ...


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Is there really an installation charge that would be saved under the new lease deal.

I've upgraded a few times, and they never charged an installation fee.

-smak-


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## kndust (Aug 19, 2005)

Lee L said:


> Man, I am really on the fence right now to by a second HR10-250 with this news. I think I will go ahead and call retention this week to see what I can get. The only issue is that it would replace a SDDVR running 6.2 and I am not sure I can stand teh wife complaining about another slow HD DVR.


WAAAAAHHHHAAAAAAAHHHHAAHHHAA not going to happen just because you call and speak to a csr in retention it means nothing you will not get another hddvr for nothing you want it you and you want to own it you will pay full cost for unit at the cost that dtv spends on making them which is $749.00 no discounts or subsidies, deal with it . it is going to ba fact from now on and I for one am glad dtv is doing this as for ddrummer you work for dtv or one of their partners and you come here and bad mouth them I hope that they findout who you are and can you


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## Teacher Steve (Jan 14, 2005)

I talked to a D* Retention rep tonight (2/25) and he states, 

"I don't know where you got your information about a Lease program that we may or may not have, but it (a Lease program) certainly is not set in stone as of yet."

Whatever...


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## kndust (Aug 19, 2005)

Lee L said:


> So, you are saying that someone with excellent credit, can get a HR10-250 for $0.00 up front and only have to pay the $5.99/month lease fee?
> 
> Now that, I could get behind. Much more like cable, and might actually make some sense.


no you will not get it for free if you want to own it you will pay $749.00 with no commitment which is the full price of unit and no discounts that price is what it cost dtv to make the unit no more no less, if you lease it you will pay $499.00 and have a 2yr commitment plus a receiver lease fee of $4.99per month keep trying to get something for nothing will not work any more and if you drop dtv they want the equip back just like dishnetwork and cable those that own equip and drop dtv if there is a commitment left on equip you can pay that fee or send the equip back to dtv this means you can noty sell units on ebay or any where else the lease program is a very good one oh and by the way dish network also makes you pay upfront for there advanced equip and you do not own that equip you lease it from them and when you drop them you have to send it back to them as it says in their cust agreement right here..
Digital Home Advantage Promotion Agreement

PLEASE READ

CUSTOMER: Thank you for choosing DISH Network. This agreement (the "Agreement") sets forth the terms and conditions of the Digital Home Advantage promotion. Additional terms and conditions of service are contained in the Residential Customer Agreement provided to you in your receiver User's Guide and made available at www.dishnetwork.com. BY CLICKING ON THE "ACCEPT TERMS" BUTTON BELOW YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOU HAVE RECEIVED, READ, UNDERSTAND, AND AGREE TO BE BOUND BY ALL OF THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION, THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS SET FORTH ON ITS SECOND PAGE, AND THE RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER AGREEMENT, WHICH IS INCORPORATED HEREIN BY REFERENCE, AND THAT THE FOLLOWING TERMS WERE DISCLOSED TO YOU PRIOR TO LEASE: 1) all equipment provided to you under this Agreement remains the property of DISH Network at all times and you agree that within 15 days of termination, downgrade, or disconnection of service as described below, you will return all such equipment to your original retailer or DISH Network or pay the applicable unreturned equipment charges set forth below; 2) you must purchase DishFAMILY (currently $19.99/mo. or $24.99/mo. with local network channels where available, in each case including rental of one receiver), America's Top 60 (currently $29.99/mo. or $34.99/mo. with local network channels where available, in each case including rental of one receiver), DISH Latino (currently $24.99/mo. or $29.99/mo. with local network channels where available, in each case including rental of one receiver), or Great Wall TV Package (currently $29.99/mo. or $34.99/mo. with local network channels where available, in each case including rental of one receiver) as your minimum subscription level at all times; 3) the $299.99 lease upgrade fee (if applicable) for the model ViP622 receiver, the $49.99 lease upgrade fee (if applicable) for the model ViP211 or 411 receiver, the $99.00 lease upgrade fee (if applicable) for the second model 522 or 625 receiver, and programming payments, are non-refundable; 4) whether a non-refundable activation fee of $49.99 plus applicable sales tax must be paid prior to installation and whether a $49.99 credit will be applied to your first bill; 5) whether you are eligible for local network channels by satellite, or a website or phone number to contact to determine if you are eligible for local network channels by satellite; and 6) if you elected the eighteen month agreement option below, a prorated cancellation fee of $240 will apply for early downgrade, termination, or disconnection of service as described below. IF YOU CHANGE YOUR RESIDENCE, YOU ARE STILL BOUND TO THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT. WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO CHANGE PRICES, PACKAGES, AND PROGRAMMING AT ANY TIME, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION, DURING ANY TERM AGREEMENT PERIOD TO WHICH YOU HAVE AGREED.

DISH Home Protection Plan ("DHPP"). DHPP is an optional service program that is currently priced at $5.99 per month. DHPP is not currently available to subscribers who are billed by Southwestern Bell Video Service, Inc. (dba AT&T Home Entertainment) for the DISH Network services provided under this Agreement and may not be available to such subscribers in the future. DHPP includes: a) a priority technical service support telephone number available 24 hours per day/7 days per week; b) free shipping for repair or replacement of defective receiver equipment (including DVR and HD receivers); c) video cabling and power surge repairs to DISH Network equipment; d) discounted in home service calls currently priced at $29 (regularly $99); and e) one free DISH Mover (if you relocate to an area where DISH Network programming is available, we will provide free standard professional installation of a new DISH 500 antenna (or a SuperDISH or DISH 1000 antenna where required for local channel packages or a 24-inch or larger DISH 300 antenna for residents of Hawaii and eligible locations within the Anchorage, Alaska metropolitan area) and your existing receivers). Please see www.dishnetwork.com or call 1-800-333-DISH for complete details.

Term Agreement Option and Cancellation Fee. If you are a new, first-time DISH Network subscriber who would like to receive a $49.99 credit applied to your first bill and DHPP (if available to you at the time you complete this Agreement) at no additional cost or if you are only eligible for this promotion as a Former DISH Network Subscriber (as defined below), you must complete the eighteen month agreement option selection field and click on the corresponding "Continue" button during the dishnetwork.com online ordering process for this promotion. If you elect this option, DHPP (if available to you at the time you complete this Agreement) will be provided to you at no additional cost for the duration of the eighteen month term. By completing the eighteen month agreement selection field and then clicking on the corresponding "Continue" button during the dishnetwork.com online ordering process for this promotion, you agree to purchase DishFAMILY, America's Top 60, DISH Latino, or Great Wall TV Package as your minimum subscription level for eighteen (18) months from the date of initial activation ("Initial Term"). If after activation, but before the end of the Initial Term, you elect to terminate this Agreement or downgrade your programming below the required minimum programming package of DishFAMILY, America's Top 60, DISH Latino, or Great Wall TV Package, or your service is disconnected for any reason, and all programming and other fees and charges for the Initial Term have not been paid in full as of such termination, downgrade, or disconnection, you agree to pay, and we will automatically charge, a cancellation fee equal to $13.33 multiplied by the number of months remaining in the Initial Term to your DISH Network account or your Credit Card as defined below, at our option. (If the eighteen month agreement option is not selected, you will be deemed to have declined a term agreement.)

TERMS AND CONDITIONS
General. This promotion offers eligible new residential DISH Network subscribers and eligible Former DISH Network Subscribers the opportunity to lease certain equipment and purchase certain services, subject to the terms and conditions set forth in this Agreement.

Eligibility. Services and equipment must be ordered, installed, and activated between and including February 1, 2006 and April 30, 2006. This offer is limited to: (i) new, first-time residential DISH Network subscribers and (ii) former residential DISH Network subscribers who: (a) previously maintained for no less than six consecutive months an active DISH Network account in good standing status as determined in DISH Network's sole discretion; (b) voluntarily disconnected any and all prior DISH Network accounts; (c) timely paid any and all balances owing under their prior DISH Network account(s) in full; and (d) have not received DISH Network programming or other services during the six-month period prior to activation under this promotion ("Former DISH Network Subscribers"). In addition to (and without limitation of) the foregoing, no new, first-time DISH Network subscriber or Former DISH Network Subscriber shall be eligible for this offer unless such subscriber: (1) resides in the continental United States, Hawaii, or one of the sections of the Anchorage, Alaska metropolitan area that have been determined by DISH Network in its sole discretion to be eligible locations under this promotion; (2) provide DISH Network with a valid major credit card number issued to the customer who completes this Agreement; (3) provides DISH Network with the Social Security number issued to the customer who completes this Agreement; and (4) receives credit approval. If you reside in Alaska, you represent and warrant that you have confirmed with your participating retailer that your residence is within an area that has been determined by DISH Network to be an eligible location under this promotion. Only one participant is allowed per household. This offer may not be combined with any other offer. Standard professional installation of up to four receivers (or only up to two receivers for subscribers who purchase International programming other than Great Wall TV Package) to up to four televisions, a DISH 500 antenna (or a SuperDISH antenna where required for local channel packages or International programming, a DISH 1000 antenna where required for local channel packages, or a 24-inch or larger DISH 300 antenna for residents of Hawaii and eligible locations within the Anchorage, Alaska metropolitan area) and mounting hardware is included. In certain installations, additional equipment may be required and additional fees may apply. For installations performed for residents of Hawaii who purchase America's Top 180, DISH Latino, DISH Latino Dos, DISH Latino Max, or any programming package which includes high definition programming, including without limitation DishHD Bronze, DishHD Silver, DishHD Gold, DishHD Platinum, DishLATINO HD Bronze, DishLATINO HD Silver, DishLATINO HD Gold, or DishLATINO HD Platinum , additional equipment will be required and additional fees may apply. For installations performed for residents in the continental United States who purchase International programming broadcast from a wing satellite (61.5 or 148) location, additional fees may apply for a second antenna or otherwise. For installations performed for residents of eligible locations within the Anchorage, Alaska metropolitan area, an additional purchase of a 24-inch or larger DISH 300 antenna will be required and additional fees may apply. Maximum of four total tuners per account. Maximum of two model 522 or 625 receivers per account. Maximum of one model ViP622 receiver per account. DISH Network shall determine eligibility for participation, including without limitation the number and type of receivers to be provided, in its sole discretion and reserves the right to deny eligibility for any reason.

Programming. A minimum programming package of DishFAMILY, America's Top 60, DISH Latino, or Great Wall TV Package is required at all times. In the event you do not purchase the required minimum programming package, your service will be deactivated. Local network channels may be purchased if and where available for an additional $5.00/mo.

Monthly Fees and Payments. You agree to make a monthly payment by the payment due date for the programming you select and for the following fees as applicable depending on the equipment you select: Equipment Rental Fee: An equipment rental fee of $6.00 per month (in the case of a model 411, ViP211 or ViP622 DVR receiver) or $5.00 per month (in all other cases) for the first receiver activated is included in the promotional base programming package price. An additional equipment rental fee of $6.00 per month (in the case of a model 411, ViP211 or ViP622 DVR receiver) or $5.00 per month (in all other cases) will be charged to your account for each receiver activated beyond the first (for the purpose of determining the amount of this fee, model 411, ViP211, and ViP622 DVR receivers shall be deemed to be activated prior to all other receivers); DISH Network DVR Service Fee: A $5.98 per month DISH Network DVR service fee will be charged to your account for each model 510, 522, 625, or ViP622 DVR receiver activated. This fee will be waived if you subscribe to America's "Everything" Pak, Latino "Everything" Pak, DishHD Platinum, or DishLATINO HD Platinum; Additional Outlet Programming Access Fee: A $5.00 per month additional outlet programming access fee will be charged to your account for each dual tuner receiver (models 322, 522, 625, and ViP622 DVR) activated. This fee will be waived on a monthly basis for each such receiver that DISH Network confirms has been continuously connected to your same land-based phone line. DISH Network's confirmation process shall be the sole method utilized to determine if your additional outlet programming access fee(s) will be waived; HD Enabling Fee: A $6.00 per month HD enabling fee will charged to your account if any model 411, ViP211 or ViP622 DVR receiver is activated and enabled with the capacity to receive high definition programming (including without limitation via an off-air antenna). This fee will be waived on a monthly basis if you subscribe to DishHD Bronze, DishHD Silver, DishHD Gold, DishHD Platinum, DishLATINO HD Bronze, DishLATINO HD Silver, DishLATINO HD Gold, or DishLATINO HD Platinum, or if the capacity of all such receivers to receive high definition programming has been disabled by DISH Network at your request. You may call us at 800-333-DISH to request that we disable the high definition functionality on your receiver(s). The $299.99 lease upgrade fee for the model ViP622 DVR receiver is not a deposit and is non-refundable. The $49.99 lease upgrade fee for the model 411 or ViP211 receiver is not a deposit and is non-refundable. The $99.00 lease upgrade fee for the second model 522 or 625 receiver is not a deposit and is non-refundable. The $49.99 activation fee (if applicable) is non-refundable but will be credited on your first account billing statement solely in the event that you are a new, first-time DISH Network subscriber who agrees to the eighteen month agreement option by completing the eighteen month agreement selection field and then clicking on the corresponding "Continue" button during the dishnetwork.com online ordering process for this promotion. State and local taxes, or reimbursement charges for gross earnings taxes imposed on satellite providers for transmission of programming in some states, may apply. Other fees may apply as set forth in the Residential Customer Agreement. Different or other payment options may be applicable where billing is provided through a billing agent.

Unreturned Equipment Charges. This promotion allows you to use the satellite receiver(s), smart card(s) and remote control(s), low noise block converters with integrated feeds ("LNBFs"), and switches (if any) you select under this promotion while you remain an active customer in good standing and in compliance with this Agreement and the Residential Customer Agreement. All such equipment is owned by DISH Network at all times and must be returned if you elect to terminate this Agreement or downgrade your programming below required minimum programming package of DishFAMILY, America's Top 60, DISH Latino, or Great Wall TV Package, or your service is otherwise disconnected for any reason at any time. WITHIN 15 DAYS OF SUCH TERMINATION, DOWNGRADE, OR DISCONNECTION, YOU AGREE TO RETURN ALL SUCH EQUIPMENT IN GOOD OPERATING CONDITION, NORMAL WEAR AND TEAR EXCEPTED, TO: (1) your original retailer (or DISH Network if no retailer was used) if such termination, downgrade, or disconnection occurs during the first 180 days after activation of programming, or (2) DISH Network if such termination, downgrade, or disconnection occurs after the first 180 days from the date of activation of programming. If such termination, downgrade, or disconnection occurs after the first 180 days, you agree to immediately call DISH Network at 1-888-220-3474 to receive a return authorization number and delivery instructions for the return of such equipment to DISH Network. You are responsible for and shall bear all costs and expenses to return such equipment. IF YOU FAIL TO RETURN SUCH EQUIPMENT AS SET FORTH HEREIN, YOU AGREE TO PAY, AND WE WILL AUTOMATICALLY CHARGE TO YOUR DISH NETWORK ACCOUNT OR YOUR CREDIT CARD (AS DEFINED BELOW), AT OUR OPTION, AN UNRETURNED EQUIPMENT CHARGE FOR EACH ITEM NOT RETURNED AS FOLLOWS (in each case and collectively, the "Unreturned Equipment Charge"): model ViP622 DVR receiver, $400; model 625 or 522 receiver, $300; model 322, 411 or ViP211 receiver, $200; model 111, 301 or 311 receiver, $100; outdoor LNBF and quad switch, $100.

Collection of Fees/Credit Card Authorization. You hereby authorize DISH Network to charge, and/or place a hold with respect to, any and all cancellation fee(s) and unreturned equipment fee(s) owing under this Agreement (collectively, the "Authorized Amounts"), to your credit card or debit/check card that you initially provided to DISH Network and/or to any other credit card or debit/check card of yours that you provide to make payments to DISH Network (the "Credit Card"), authorize the issuer of the Credit Card to pay the Authorized Amounts without DISH Network submitting a signed receipt, and agree that this Agreement is to be accepted as such authorization. You authorize DISH Network to continue to attempt to charge, and/or place holds with respect to, the Authorized Amounts, or any portion thereof, to the Credit Card until such amounts are paid in full. You acknowledge and agree that DISH Network shall have no liability whatsoever for any non-sufficient funds, rejected debit, or other charges incurred by you as a result of such attempts to charge, and/or place holds on, the Credit Card. Payment of a cancellation fee shall not relieve you of your obligation to pay all unpaid charges on your account. In the event that you are enrolled or later enroll in DISH Network's AutoPay ("AutoPay") or Electronic Funds Transfer ("EFT") payment programs, you agree that the Authorized Amounts and any and all monthly programming, pay-per-view, and other similar and related charges and other amounts owing under this Agreement or the Residential Customer Agreement may be charged to the credit card, debit/check card or account provided by you to DISH Network pursuant to such AutoPay or EFT program.

Billing Agents. We may enter into relationships with third parties to provide billing and other services on our behalf in which case the terms and conditions of this Agreement shall apply to such third parties as applicable under the circumstances.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

kndust said:


> no you will not get it for free if you want to own it you will pay $749.00 with no commitment which is the full price of unit and no discounts that price is what it cost dtv to make the unit no more no less, if you lease it you will pay $499.00 and have a 2yr commitment plus a receiver lease fee of $4.99per month keep trying to get something for nothing will not work any more and if you drop dtv they want the equip back just like dishnetwork and cable those that own equip and drop dtv if there is a commitment left on equip you can pay that fee or send the equip back to dtv this means you can noty sell units on ebay or any where else the lease program is a very good one oh and by the way dish network also makes you pay upfront for there advanced equip and you do not own that equip you lease it from them and when you drop them you have to send it back to them as it says in their cust agreement right here..


Please ... find the "period" key on your keyboard and use it between sentences. Your posts are VERY difficult to read. :down:


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

kndust said:


> no you will not get it for free if you want to own it you will pay $749.00 with no commitment which is the full price of unit and no discounts that price is what it cost dtv to make the unit no more no less, if you lease it you will pay $499.00 and have a 2yr commitment plus a receiver lease fee of $4.99per month keep trying to get something for nothing will not work any more and if you drop dtv they want the equip back just like dishnetwork and cable those that own equip and drop dtv if there is a commitment left on equip you can pay that fee or send the equip back to dtv this means you can noty sell units on ebay or any where else the lease program is a very good one oh and by the way dish network also makes you pay upfront for there advanced equip and you do not own that equip you lease it from them and when you drop them you have to send it back to them as it says in their cust agreement right here..
> Digital Home Advantage Promotion Agreement


Wow. I am sure DirecTV really loves having you advocate its positions.

Who cares about Dish? Tell me again how the DirecTV lease is better than a Comcast lease. Oh. It isn't? It's worse? That is what I thought.

Thanks for playing.


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## nesby (Feb 7, 2006)

kndust said:


> WAAAAAHHHHAAAAAAAHHHHAAHHHAA not going to happen just because you call and speak to a csr in retention it means nothing you will not get another hddvr for nothing you want it you and you want to own it you will pay full cost for unit at the cost that dtv spends on making them which is $749.00 no discounts or subsidies, deal with it . it is going to ba fact from now on and I for one am glad dtv is doing this as for ddrummer you work for dtv or one of their partners and you come here and bad mouth them I hope that they findout who you are and can you


STFU


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## ddrumer (Dec 3, 2004)

newsposter said:


> um...isn't there a monthly rental fee too? So it's not the same.


Reading the entire thread would prove

As of March 1st: $4.99 Leasing Fee, but no Mirroring Fee

Now and previous: No Leasing Fee, but $4.99 Mirroring Fee

Net price sure seems the same . . . . . . . . .


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

Net, net...the story seems to be:

If you want to accept a service commitment, the total net cost is the same, except you can't resell the equipment if you cancel, you must return it.

However, if you want to avoid a commitment, you can plunk down an extra $200 to $300 and then you can try and recoup the cost by reselling the equipment if you cancel.

That about it?


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

kndust said:


> WAAAAAHHHHAAAAAAAHHHHAAHHHAA not going to happen just because you call and speak to a csr in retention it means nothing you will not get another hddvr for nothing you want it you and you want to own it you will pay full cost for unit at the cost that dtv spends on making them which is $749.00 no discounts or subsidies, deal with it . it is going to ba fact from now on and I for one am glad dtv is doing this as for ddrummer you work for dtv or one of their partners and you come here and bad mouth them I hope that they findout who you are and can you


Thanks for the ultra informative post there.

Anyway, I was not wanting anything for free, but merely to avoid paying more for less in the future.

I went ahead and bought an HR10-250 from 6th Ave electronics. (See the info in the thread in teh HD Forum about the cost of the HR10-250 after 2-28). It cost me $417.06 and I can still get the $200 rebate for a net cost before anything that I might get from D* of $217.06. I can drop the thing off a building when I am done with it if I want (or at least use the hard drive).

If the info in this post is correct. It looks like after 3-1-06, it will cost me anywhere from $499-$749 up front dependingon if it will be a lease. If so, I will have to pay $499 up front and I will have to give it back to D* when I am done with it. If not, I will have to pay as much as $749 up front and I keep it.

If I call up D* and they give me 3 free months of HD pack (for which I currently pay anyway) or Showtime (for which I currently pay) or anything else it will just be gravy. If I get nothing from them, it is still the same monthly cost as before (replacing another subbed box) and I got an HR10-250 for $217.00 when my first one cost me $900 in April of 2004. Not a bad deal at all.

Looking back, it seems silly to have even given it a moment's thought.


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## ddrumer (Dec 3, 2004)

Dan Collins said:


> Net, net...the story seems to be:
> 
> If you want to accept a service commitment, the total net cost is the same, except you can't resell the equipment if you cancel, you must return it.
> 
> ...


Someone understands.


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## ddrumer (Dec 3, 2004)

I thought I would share a PM that i received from our favorite poster



kndust said:


> you work for dtv or one of their partners I hope that find out who you are and can If i had you working for me and were out on a sight post bad things about my company I would fire you so fast you head would spin and then their goes your rent that you pointed out they pay for you and keep you in closths and you say you are loyal my ass you are loyal that info was for inhouse people only you dont like it you get your serv from dtv at no cost if you do not have any sports packages and great equip offers for freinds and family and you go and bite the hand that feeds you people like you make me sick


The problem is that I have not once wavered from being loyal. I love DTV and because of all that they have done for me I will remain loyal as I move on. And this is what I get for letting my peers in on info when all they have to do is just call to find it all out???????? Very grateful I see. I would like to point out that a person who is answering the phone is a CSR. That is a "Customer Service Representative." I'm happy to help, my girlfriend doesn't understand why, after work, I work somemore. Easy, some ppl just don't ask the right questions when I want to help them so bad and I can't. The problem is that this ****** didn't read the entire thread to see that I have advocated that its not a big deal, this lease offer, and explained their line of thought. Everyone here agrees, for the company its a great change, just not for a few of its customers.

To conclude I do apologize for getting off topic for a moment, but I felt everyone should see this. And, if I were to get fired, it would be a sad day for many custs. Since, and everyone here can check the help I have given ppl, there are many more reps that could care less about the cust and just want a paycheck. I, however, do my job, take care of the cust and love doing it.

SO BACK OFF!

For everyone else, I would like to point out that I use my period key and even mix things up with some commas.

ddrumer


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## herdfan (Feb 5, 2003)

SteelersTiVo said:


> Acutally, this is how car leases work in that you have to pay $1K or more down plus the monthly payments in order to lease. You negotiate both prices down in order to pay the lowest amount for the car but you do have to pay at least some $ down on most car leases.


Correct. And the more you pay down, the lower your payment. If you keep the car the entire term of the lease, you are even. If you total it, and are upside down in it, the GAP coverage will kick in, but you will lose some of what you paid down.


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## herdfan (Feb 5, 2003)

Dan Collins said:


> If you want to accept a service commitment, the total net cost is the same, except you can't resell the equipment if you cancel, you must return it.
> 
> However, if you want to avoid a commitment, you can plunk down an extra $200 to $300 and then you can try and recoup the cost by reselling the equipment if you cancel.


That about sums it up. Up until now, D* has been subsidizing the cost of equipment you buy. For this subsidy, you argree to a 1 or 2-year commitment. D* is no longer going to subsidize the equipment, so if you want to own it, you will pay full price. If you want a subsidy, you get the lease model.


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## willardcpa (Feb 23, 2001)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kndust
you work for dtv or one of their partners I hope that find out who you are and can If i had you working for me and were out on a sight post bad things about my company I would fire you so fast you head would spin and then their goes your rent that you pointed out they pay for you and keep you in closths and you say you are loyal my ass you are loyal that info was for inhouse people only you dont like it you get your serv from dtv at no cost if you do not have any sports packages and great equip offers for freinds and family and you go and bite the hand that feeds you people like you make me sick 

"If i had you working for me", I am just trying to imagine a scenario where someone who communicates like this would ever have someone working for them.


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## herdfan (Feb 5, 2003)

Good one Willard. :up: :up:


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

ddrumer said:


> For everyone else, I would like to point out that I use my period key and even mix things up with some commas.
> 
> ddrumer


 :up:


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## mw1597 (Oct 9, 2004)

I assume the DVR service fee is still $5.99 and is in addition to the lease fee?


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

ddrumer said:


> Someone understands.


Yup..I understand that DirecTV is now offering the same pricing structure as Dish Network (and equivalent level technology, particularly in DVRs with the demise of the TiVo relationship). I also understand that DirecTV continues to offer an inferior initial cost structure to cable TV (particularly for those seeking a HD DVR) and barely advantageous monthly costs.

I guess this is SOMEBODY'S idea of a recipe for success.


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## jkuet21226 (Aug 16, 2005)

So if I pay the reduced rate ($499) to lease a HD DVR, I am committed to 2 years. Can I upgrade my receiver when something better comes out? What if it is within the first year? Will there be an upgrade fee (or a fee to break the 2yr lease on that receiver) or will I have to pay another $499 for the newer receiver. What if my HD DVR breaks down, does the lease fee cover repair or replacement? I hope the warranty would at least be as long as the lease.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

jkuet21226 said:


> . What if my HD DVR breaks down, does the lease fee cover repair or replacement? I hope the warranty would at least be as long as the lease.


While no one knows every in and out of the lease, I think everyone agrees that by definition, lease means you get 'free' repairs or replacement. now of course people are gonna be pretty made when they turn in hdtivo and get directv dvrs, but hey, that's the lease policy and what most warranties say anyways. Their choice of equivalent equipment


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## jcricket (Sep 11, 2002)

jkuet21226 said:


> So if I pay the reduced rate ($499) to lease a HD DVR, I am committed to 2 years. Can I upgrade my receiver when something better comes out? What if it is within the first year? Will there be an upgrade fee (or a fee to break the 2yr lease on that receiver) or will I have to pay another $499 for the newer receiver. What if my HD DVR breaks down, does the lease fee cover repair or replacement? I hope the warranty would at least be as long as the lease.


My guess is that you don't get any price break on new equipment after 2 years. You'll be asked to return the HD DVR you paid $619 ($499 + $5/month for 2 years) for, and then asked to pay another $499 + $5/month for the new equipment.

This is the reason this is a bad deal for consumers. The up-front cost is so high (75% of the purchase price) that the economics of "leasing" through D* don't really work out in your favor.

Basically, D* doesn't have a true leasing model for the advanced equipment. They have a 25% equipment subsidy for high-end equipment that's now "directly" paid back over 3 years through the "lease fee" (formerly called the mirroring fee). At the end of those 3 years you've paid the same as if you'd bought the equipment, but you can't re-sell it. Very different than if you lease a car, where at the end of 3 years you've paid 25% of the price if you'd bought the car, making up for the fact that you can't sell it.

The only advantage of this model, I guess, is that they'll replace it free if it actually breaks down, even after 2 or 3 years.

Again, let's break down the models consumers are being offered:

1) Cable: Zero cost up-front for equipment (including their HD DVRs). $10/month (or so) per box for leasing. After three years, you'll have paid only $400 for your HD DVR. If it breaks, they replace it. Leave at any time you like, just return the box.

2) D* lease: $499 up-front, $5/month for leasing. After three years you'll have paid $679 for your HD DVR. If it breaks, they replace it. If you want to leave, you have to pay a pro-rated early-termination penalty (or something). Oh, and you have to return the box.

3) D* buy: $699 up-front, no lease cost. After three years you'll have paid $699 for your HD DVR. If it breaks (out of warranty), you're hosed. If you want to leave, you can, and you might be able to sell it and get some money back.

The net-net is that D* is still significantly more expensive for the equipment in either model. With what I know about the rapidly changing world of HD DVRs and the problems I've had with the HR10-250, I'm not interested in paying D* a significant up-front cost ($500 is significant). I might pay $100, if they offered significantly better HD DVR technology than cable.

The whole new model just seems confusing (certainly is to me). D* should either pick the "no up-front cost for equipment with a $10 lease fee" or stick with the "subsidized cost for equipment with a contract and no monthly equipment charge". Not this in-between bull****.


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## SpacemanSpiff (Jan 31, 2004)

Who volunteers to be the first beta tomorrow morning. Letting us know what's what.

Maybe Earl could do it and set up a thread on testing the new lease model. 

The only thing I'm putting money on is that tomorrow morning the clueless CSR's will be even more clueless in regards to what needs to be done when a customer calls up to activate equipment.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

You know, I sure hope they do not try to give me any trouble when my HR10-250 comes tomorrow. No way am I doing any leasing.


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## ddrumer (Dec 3, 2004)

i'd doub't you'll have a prob


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Lee L said:


> You know, I sure hope they do not try to give me any trouble when my HR10-250 comes tomorrow. No way am I doing any leasing.


My HR10-250 from 6Ave arrived today and when I called to activate it, I asked the CSR about what would have happened if my shipment was delayed and I had to wait a day to call: would the new lease plan have impacted me? Her response: Not at all, since I purchased the unit prior to March 1st.

She followed up to say that many B&Ms will stop carrying all DirecTV receivers, with the exception of a few "mom and pops", as she put it. In other words, if you can find a receiver and buy it, take it home and plug it in, it's yours. If you want a receiver and can't find one, you have to order from DirecTV and then they own it and you lease it.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

Well, mine is supposed to be here today. Assuming DHL holds it at the dist center like I asked, I can pick it up on the way home from work.


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## CsrLiz344 (Apr 12, 2004)

drew2k said:


> She followed up to say that many B&Ms will stop carrying all DirecTV receivers, with the exception of a few "mom and pops", as she put it. In other words, if you can find a receiver and buy it, take it home and plug it in, it's yours. If you want a receiver and can't find one, you have to order from DirecTV and then they own it and you lease it.


That makes sense, because it would cut down on the leases, so they're gonna make it a "our way or no way" situation. You're either gonna lease it for a high price, or buy it at a higher price.


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## BlankMan (Mar 30, 2002)

ddrumer said:


> I thought I would share a PM that i received from our favorite posterr


Don't let this person bother you, it's obvious by his grammar and spelling he's a highly intelligent and refined individual and someone all of us would love to get to know. 

And thanks for posting the info, it is appreciated.


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## ddrumer (Dec 3, 2004)

It's March 1st, DOOMS DAY, for most. I will be getting all of the official info today. We'll see if the research since the announcement has changed any of the pricing. If it will, I will post, but of course you guys can find out on the website as well.

Thanks Blankman, the only reason I do post is since I have taken so much from the underground forums, this is the only place I feel I can put my 2 cents in. Everyone, Any particular questions feel free to PM and I will find out for you.

ddrumer


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## nesby (Feb 7, 2006)

Thx DD


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## beanpoppa (Jan 7, 2004)

An interesting question will be how they handle people who have cancelled their service, and want to return. In the past, they were very strict about who could qualify as a new customer for free equipment. If they hold those same restrictions under the lease model, and you return your equipment when you cancel, will you have to purchase new equipment if you want to return? Under the old plan, you could just reactivate your old equipment.


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## ddrumer (Dec 3, 2004)

beanpoppa said:


> An interesting question will be how they handle people who have cancelled their service, and want to return. In the past, they were very strict about who could qualify as a new customer for free equipment. If they hold those same restrictions under the lease model, and you return your equipment when you cancel, will you have to purchase new equipment if you want to return? Under the old plan, you could just reactivate your old equipment.


Nah, disconnect dept. has "Former Customer Reconnect Offers" from what i have seen its on an account by account basis. The offers seem to range from free hd or free dvr, to buying the equipment all over again, depends on dtv's risk in the investment. They are beginning to really crack down on those custs who milk them for free stuff, leave, and return to get more free stuff and while with dtv don't pay their bill. Generally the offer is like 2 or three rooms free (standard). Will get less that new cust but still could be worse.

ddrumer


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## beanpoppa (Jan 7, 2004)

But under the old plan, it was OK to tell a customer that they couldn't get all new equipment for free when they returned because they still had their old equipment. (or at least the money from selling them on eBay) Now, you have to return everything, so you have nothing. They should handle it like cable- as long as it's been more then 30, 90 (or whatever) days, you are considered a new customer. But then again, cable doesn't charge you $100's up front to 'lease' a receiver.

Wow... can't believe that cable is offering a better equipment model than D*...



ddrumer said:


> Nah, disconnect dept. has "Former Customer Reconnect Offers" from what i have seen its on an account by account basis. The offers seem to range from free hd or free dvr, to buying the equipment all over again, depends on dtv's risk in the investment. They are beginning to really crack down on those custs who milk them for free stuff, leave, and return to get more free stuff and while with dtv don't pay their bill. Generally the offer is like 2 or three rooms free (standard). Will get less that new cust but still could be worse.
> 
> ddrumer


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## Queasy1 (Jan 8, 2005)

This is quite possibly one of the worst marketing models I have ever seen.

When it comes time for me to get HDTV programming, I'll be looking elsewhere unless this is changed.


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## psyco2 (Feb 2, 2006)

I just went to Best Buy today and there was no signage talking about *leasing* for the DirecTV Receivers. I went ahead and puchased the HR10-250 and was looking for the catch, but didn't see any regarding the leasing.

A $100 Rebate printed out and that was the only thing that talked about leasing, so I will forego that. I am going to try and activate it tonight when I get home and see what happens when I call up D*TV

If the 'leasing' rears it's head, I'll take it back to Best Buy. Here goes...


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## af250xxl (Jan 24, 2006)

Queasy1 said:


> This is quite possibly one of the worst marketing models I have ever seen.


It *is* the worst marketing model ever...  On the other hand, I love DirecTV, so I'm going to give them the benefit of a doubt... perhaps the true reason behind the leasing scheme will be revealed to us soon.... ?


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## nesby (Feb 7, 2006)

psyco2 said:


> I just went to Best Buy today and there was no signage talking about *leasing* for the DirecTV Receivers. I went ahead and puchased the HR10-250 and was looking for the catch, but didn't see any regarding the leasing.
> 
> A $100 Rebate printed out and that was the only thing that talked about leasing, so I will forego that. I am going to try and activate it tonight when I get home and see what happens when I call up D*TV
> 
> If the 'leasing' rears it's head, I'll take it back to Best Buy. Here goes...


Keep us posted....I'm curious how that goes. I may do the same if it works.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

Well, if you did not sign anything at Best Buy or give them additional info about yourself, you could always tell the guy that you bought it last week.


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## psyco2 (Feb 2, 2006)

nesby said:


> Keep us posted....I'm curious how that goes. I may do the same if it works.


Good news. I activated my D-Tivo tonight and it is *NOT * a **lease**.

Called the CSR and went through the usual steps, as we get to the end of the conversation, I ask "Is this being processed as a lease?" After no answer, I repeated the question and had her repeat it to me.

She then precedes to say "yes" it is being processed as a lease. I told her this was not purchased under that program and it should not be a lease.

Her: *"Let me speak to a supervisor..Hold on..."*

3 minutes later.

*"Sir, you are ready to go. This is not a lease."*

It sucks I have to forego the rebate, but I don't want any gotchas later on.

psyco2


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## ddrumer (Dec 3, 2004)

psyco2 said:


> Good news. I activated my D-Tivo tonight and it is *NOT * a **lease**.
> 
> Called the CSR and went through the usual steps, as we get to the end of the conversation, I ask "Is this being processed as a lease?" After no answer, I repeated the question and had her repeat it to me.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I really don't want to burst your bubble . . . The only dept that can change the flag from "LEASED" to "OWN" is the access card team. Better double check. It may be possible she was in the same building as that dept and had it changed. But . . . I would call back to double check. The Default is Leased.

Just my 2 cents . . . .

ddrumer


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## Daytona24 (Jun 8, 2005)

So if I am getting this info right the guy above went to Best Buy and "bought" a HDTIVO, and when he's done with DTV he has to send them the HDTIVO he "bought"? If thats not the BEST business model EVER! Get someone to buy your product and when thier done with it send it back to you at no cost to you so you can resell it to someone else!!! Who says DTV isnt smart!

Tonight my cable company finally added the last broadcast network in HD, and they will be converting to Comcast this year perhaps turning the subpar DVR I have to a TIVO DVR, my DTV contract is up next month, any questions.

I like DTV dont get me wrong but the TIVO has been one thing, reliable (knock on wood), I'm not against the new DTV DVR just against the unreliableness of it (and all these two year commitments).

Best thing about cable = no commitments


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## psyco2 (Feb 2, 2006)

ddrumer said:


> Sorry, I really don't want to burst your bubble . . . The only dept that can change the flag from "LEASED" to "OWN" is the access card team. Better double check. It may be possible she was in the same building as that dept and had it changed. But . . . I would call back to double check. The Default is Leased.
> 
> Just my 2 cents . . . .
> 
> ddrumer


My bubble is not burst. Went Online and saw the following:

03/02/2006 xxxxxxxx9999 Additional Receiver - Charge $2.49 $0.33 $2.49 
03/02/2006 xxxxxxxx9999 Leased Receiver $-2.49 $-0.15 $-2.49 
03/02/2006 xxxxxxxx8888 Additional Receiver - Disconnect Adj $-2.49 $-0.33 $-2.49 
03/02/2006 xxxxxxxx9999 Leased Receiver $2.49 $0.15 $2.49

The transactions are in reverse order:

I disconnected old receiver (8888) and then added the new receiver (9999).

Then the leased transaction(9999) was reversed and the "additional receiver" was added for the new access card (9999). So for those of you that ordered and have to activate your unit, please beware.

Spongebob has nothing on me when it comes to bubbles. I am still floating high. I even saved a $100 by waiting for the new lease period since I already used the free after rebate on a regular Hi-Def receiver. That $200 check helped pay for this receiver.

Now that this is listed as an additional receiver, maybe I'll apply for my rebate after all.


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## Boston Fan (Feb 8, 2006)

psyco2 said:


> Now that this is listed as an additional receiver, maybe I'll apply for my rebate after all.


No harm in trying.


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## psyco2 (Feb 2, 2006)

Daytona24 said:


> So if I am getting this info right the guy above went to Best Buy and "bought" a HDTIVO, and when he's done with DTV he has to send them the HDTIVO he "bought"? If thats not the BEST business model EVER! Get someone to buy your product and when thier done with it send it back to you at no cost to you so you can resell it to someone else!!! Who says DTV isnt smart!
> 
> Tonight my cable company finally added the last broadcast network in HD, and they will be converting to Comcast this year perhaps turning the subpar DVR I have to a TIVO DVR, my DTV contract is up next month, any questions.
> 
> ...


I will never give in to the "Leasing" option. I deliberately purchased it with my AMEX so that if I had to return it, I would have no worries. Even if Best Buy would have charged me a restocking fee, AMEX would have made up that difference.

Since this isn't a "LEASE", I have no need to return it to best buy. I can "upgrade" my unit and do whatever.


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## ddrumer (Dec 3, 2004)

psyco2 said:


> I will never give in to the "Leasing" option. I deliberately purchased it with my AMEX so that if I had to return it, I would have no worries. Even if Best Buy would have charged me a restocking fee, AMEX would have made up that difference.
> 
> Since this isn't a "LEASE", I have no need to return it to best buy. I can "upgrade" my unit and do whatever.


I would have upgraded it anyways, just would have kept the original image and restored it b4 i sent it back . . . . better yet screw that. I had a buddy of mine pull one over on dtv. He had a SD-DVR40 and a HR10-250. The 250 went bad they sent him a refurb, he was pissed, but what can you do? Well that one went bad. He politly asked me to check to make sure the HDD in the 250 was good, it was. I then put that in the SD-DVR40 and put the 40 gig in the HD-DVR, he returned it, BAM free upgrade to a 250 gig HD in his SD-DVR40 . . . . . . . . Something to think about though.

ddrumer


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## 300M (Dec 1, 2005)

psyco2 said:


> I will never give in to the "Leasing" option. I deliberately purchased it with my AMEX so that if I had to return it, I would have no worries. Even if Best Buy would have charged me a restocking fee, AMEX would have made up that difference.
> 
> Since this isn't a "LEASE", I have no need to return it to best buy. I can "upgrade" my unit and do whatever.


After reading your story, I decided to call D* back to see if they would change my HR10-250 from "leased receiver" to "additional receiver". After speaking with three different people and finally someone in the access card division, they agreed to change it from "leased receiver" to "additional receiver".

03/03/2006 xxxxxxxx6862 Additional Receiver - Charge $2.00 $0.00 $2.00 
03/03/2006 xxxxxxxx6862 Leased Receiver $-2.00 $-0.12 $-2.00

I puchased the receiver at my local BestBuy on 3/1 for $499 w/no commitment. There was no mention in the store about leasing and even the BB associate knew nothing about this new leasing policy.


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## psyco2 (Feb 2, 2006)

300M said:


> After reading your story, I decided to call D* back to see if they would change my HR10-250 from "leased receiver" to "additional receiver". After speaking with three different people and finally someone in the access card division, they agreed to change it from "leased receiver" to "additional receiver".
> 
> 03/03/2006 xxxxxxxx6862 Additional Receiver - Charge $2.00 $0.00 $2.00
> 03/03/2006 xxxxxxxx6862 Leased Receiver $-2.00 $-0.12 $-2.00
> ...


It's a sad day when you have to fight to "*own*" something you paid for outright. I am glad you were able to corroborate what I said.

From the looks of your transaction, you came out ahead by $0.12. they subtracted the tax from the Leased Receiver transaction but didn't add it for the "Additional Receiver" transaction.

That's what I call sticking it to the man.


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## herdfan (Feb 5, 2003)

Longhorn XP, who has a relative who works for D*, has reported over on Satelliteguys that the Florida Attorney General Office is looking into the "Lease" deal. It seems they have been swamped (Should I use that word when referring to FL?  ) with complaints.

Maybe everyone should send a letter to their state's AG.


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## morgantown (Mar 29, 2005)

herdfan said:


> Longhorn XP, who has a relative who works for D*, has reported over on Satelliteguys that the Florida Attorney General Office is looking into the "Lease" deal. It seems they have been swamped (Should I use that word when referring to FL?  ) with complaints.
> 
> Maybe everyone should send a letter to their state's AG.


You type it up and send a copy to Darryl (WV AG). Send me a copy and I'll do the same.


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## psyco2 (Feb 2, 2006)

*Here is mine, but it is specific to my situation and is not generalized:*

This is a complaint about the recently implemented DirecTV "Leasing" program that went into effect March 01, 2006.

I purchased a DirecTV Receiver from a Best Buy store in Sunrise, FL on March 2, 2006. I did not agree to any "leasing" terms or sign a "Leasing" contract regarding said receiver. Upon activation of my Receiver, DirecTVs computer system listed the unit as being "owned" by them and myself as a "lessee" for the unit paying a monthly Leasing Fee to DirecTV.

I disputed their ownership of the Receiver with a DirecTV Customer Service Representative and their system was updated accordingly to reflect my ownership of the unit. However, many other unaware consumers may become a victim to this "leasing" scam and relinquish rights to equipment they rightfully own.

I would appreciate if the Florida Attorney General could look into this matter and protect the residents of Florida from this highly questionable business practice that DirecTV now utilizes.

DirecTV should be required to obtain a formal signed "LEASE AGREEMENT" contract between it and the consumer before their system reflects DirecTV as the owner of a product purchased at a merchant by a consumer.


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## SpacemanSpiff (Jan 31, 2004)

Interesting. Very interesting. I like it. The response, not the leasing.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

this sounds more like a best buy problem not a directv problem.


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## Boston Fan (Feb 8, 2006)

newsposter said:


> this sounds more like a best buy problem not a directv problem.


How do you figure?


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## FreakyD (Oct 15, 2004)

Wow, did I come late to this freakin' party. . .please indulge a dullard. If I understand this correctly, the current status quo is this:

As a current DTV customer with no commitment, if I call DTV tonight and ask for an R15 to replace my standard receiver in room #2, I will have two options:

1) Pay full, unsubsidized price for the R15 and own the equipment with no strings attached (mine to sell/trade/burn at any point), have no programming commitment added to my account, and continue to pay only the $4.99 DVR fee (I already have one DVR; although, this went up to $5.99 for new equipment, right?). I'll call this option the "Good Ol' Days" deal.

2) Pay a discounted price for the R15, pay a $5.99 leasing fee in addition to my existing $4.99 DVR fee, have a 2-year programming commitment added to my account, and be required to give the R15 back to DTV if/when I cancel my service. I'll call this option the "You've Been PWNED!" deal.

However, if I get the R15 from a B&M or online from an "authorized dealer", I should own the receiver outright. . .BUT, I might get jacked up when I activate the receiver, and it's up to me to call DTV and convince them to show it on my account as an owned receiver and not a leased receiver.

How'm I doin' so far?


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## SpacemanSpiff (Jan 31, 2004)

If you activate an R15 you're stuck with the 2 year committment regardless of whether you own or lease the unit.


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## psyco2 (Feb 2, 2006)

FreakyD said:


> Wow, did I come late to this freakin' party. . .please indulge a dullard. If I understand this correctly, the current status quo is this:
> 
> As a current DTV customer with no commitment, if I call DTV tonight and ask for an R15 to replace my standard receiver in room #2, I will have two options:
> 
> ...


#1 and #2 are correct. However, the part about the R15 is not. If you purchase from Circuit City, it clearly states that any unit purchased is a LEASE. However, this is not the case at Best Buy. Best Buy sells the R15, so the steps followed for the HR10-250 will work for the R15 as long as you don't sign any paperwork.

About #1, The 5.99 fee applies to ALL customers, not just new equipment. A mailer came with the Bill touting the prices increases.

Circuit City leasing
http://www.circuitcity.com/rpsm/cat...83+40000008/link/ref/rpem/ccd/categorylist.do

Best Buy R15
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7345857&type=product&id=1122654459818


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## af250xxl (Jan 24, 2006)

psyco2 said:


> so the steps followed for the HR10-250 will work for the R15 as long as you don't sign any paperwork.


My neighbor just bought the HR10-250 from BestBuy and wasn't asked to sign anything. He was also smart enough to use cash to pay for it. As far as I can see, DTV has no way of knowing who bought it.


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## psweig (Oct 27, 2002)

Oh, wait a minute, I received an R15 "freebie" and activated it. I don't have a two year committment. (no strings attatched). Queasy problem, they offered me a reconditoned DVR40.


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## onin24eagle (Feb 17, 2006)

psyco2 said:


> *Here is mine, but it is specific to my situation and is not generalized:*
> 
> This is a complaint about the recently implemented DirecTV "Leasing" program that went into effect March 01, 2006.
> 
> ...


When you do the initial set up you have to hit the select button to agree to D*'s "terms and conditons." If your Tivo is set up, then you agreed to all terms and conditions. That is D*'s out.


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## psyco2 (Feb 2, 2006)

onin24eagle said:


> When you do the initial set up you have to hit the select button to agree to D*'s "terms and conditons." If your Tivo is set up, then you agreed to all terms and conditions. That is D*'s out.


The terms on the screen have nothing to do with the purchase of the equipment. So if they put in their "terms and conditions" that I must stand on one leg and hop like a bunny, doesn't mean I have to do it or agree to it.


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

psyco2 said:


> The terms on the screen have nothing to do with the purchase of the equipment. So if they put in their "terms and conditions" that I must stand on one leg and hop like a bunny, doesn't mean I have to do it or agree to it.


Well, from a legal standpoint, if they said it was a requirement that you hop like a bunny to receive their service, you would, from a legal standpoint, need to hop like a bunny or else you are in violation of the agreement.


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## psyco2 (Feb 2, 2006)

SpankyInChicago said:


> Well, from a legal standpoint, if they said it was a requirement that you hop like a bunny to receive their service, you would, from a legal standpoint, need to hop like a bunny or else you are in violation of the agreement.


This will be my last statement regarding the legalese of the Terms and Conditions as that is not the focus of this thread.

I am not a lawyer, but for the record there is such a thing as an "Unconscionable Contract." Google can provide more of an explanation for that term than I can.

IF GM or Honda placed a tag on their vehicle keys stating *"By putting the key in the ignition of this vehicle, the consumer understands and confirms that Honda will then retain all rights to this vehicle at the end of the written agreement."*

The statement I posted, as dumb as it may sound, using your logic would mean that i would have to adhere to the terms stated on the Key tag, regardless of whatever contract I may have or may not have signed or agreed to with the Dealership.

There are no, "Oh, by the way" contracts in America.

I once cancelled my Sprint PCS service early and did not have to pay the cancellation fee because I knew they did not have a written contract with my signature agreeing to such terms. Sprint PCS did state there was a $150 fee and i understood this, but without proof via signature of me agreeing to it, they never could enforce it. That is the same exact thing here with DirecTV. I never signed a contract agreeing to any Lease Terms.

After purchasing my home, the management of the apartment where I resided sent me a bill for $800 for new carpet. I simply wrote them a nice certified letter stating that the condition of the carpet was the result of normal wear and tear and that the apartment was left in satisfactory condition. I cleaned the carpet with a steamer prior to my departure and plus I owned no pets which could have done major damage to the carpet. I never heard a word since. Just because it is in writing doesn't make it a fact or law.

**Back to the original purpose of the thread**


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## Klips (Oct 20, 2002)

OK before I activate a second new HD-DVR that I purchased from 6th ave on 2/28/06, I need to verify that I understand everything correctly.

Ive been a customer of Directv since its initial launch. I bought my first receiver for like over $900 way back when it was newer than pay-per-view and etc. Back when USSB ran the premium channels. Back when I watched the launching of the second satellite. Back when GM own Hughes which DirecTV was part of back then. I still receive a huge $5 monthly employee discount. I was one of the earliest adopters of the DVR when I purchased my first Philips 6000 DirecTV Tivo unit. Back then it was Philips branded and serviced through Tivo. It had nothing to do with DirecTV at that time, but I bought a Lifetime Service with the unit.

Now things have changed so much, Im not sure that anything that I have done to support the existence and success of DirecTV has benefited me in anyway. I believe I would actually be financially ahead of I was a totally new customer.

If I understand things correctly, have the DVR Service Fee Lifetime listed below isnt buying me anything. Am I correct?

The three additional receivers are (2) Hughes DVR2s and (1) HR10-250. I dont need more than four active receivers so what I would like to do is replace the very original Philips 6000 with this new HR10-250 I just purchased. I am reluctant to give up my DVR Service Fee Lifetime, but I dont see what I would be giving up if I did. So am I missing something? Advise from anybody? I havent been able to get any kind of discounts that been mentioned in many threads at these forums. So what is my best case scenario for getting this receiver into my accounts as cheaply as possible? For what it is worth, I think this whole leasing thing stings! I guess if I didnt have thousands of dollars invested, I might feel different. I, often time, find myself on the wrong side of a screw. 

<snip-it from my last bill>
Subscriptions For Receiver: xxx-xxxx50 
02/21/06 03/20/06 HBO, STARZ!, SHOWTIME, & CINEMAX Monthly 41.00 
02/21/06 03/20/06 TOTAL CHOICE PLUS Monthly 45.99 
02/21/06 03/20/06 DIRECTV DVR Service Fee Lifetime 0.00 
Subscriptions For Receiver: xxx-xxxx13 
02/22/06 Additional Receiver 4.99 
Subscriptions For Receiver: xxx-xxxx52 
02/22/06 Additional Receiver 4.99 
Subscriptions For Receiver: xxxx-xxxx32 
02/22/06 Additional Receiver 4.99


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

psyco2 said:


> I am not a lawyer


This is obvious.


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## beartrap (Nov 8, 2005)

psyco2 said:


> I once cancelled my Sprint PCS service early and did not have to pay the cancellation fee because I knew they did not have a written contract with my signature agreeing to such terms. Sprint PCS did state there was a $150 fee and i understood this, but without proof via signature of me agreeing to it, they never could enforce it. That is the same exact thing here with DirecTV. I never signed a contract agreeing to any Lease Terms.
> 
> After purchasing my home, the management of the apartment where I resided sent me a bill for $800 for new carpet. I simply wrote them a nice certified letter stating that the condition of the carpet was the result of normal wear and tear and that the apartment was left in satisfactory condition. I cleaned the carpet with a steamer prior to my departure and plus I owned no pets which could have done major damage to the carpet. I never heard a word since. Just because it is in writing doesn't make it a fact or law.


Some contracts do need to be in writing in order to be enforced by a court (google "statute of frauds"). But many contracts that were never memorialized in writing are indeed enforceable. Signatures of the parties in such contracts are not necessary. I suspect that your Sprint PCS agreement was such an enforceable contract. Just because Sprint didn't go after the $150 cancellation fee doesn't mean that they didn't have the legal recourse to do so. Likewise, if the management of your old apartment felt like they had a cause of action because of the condition of your carpet, they could have initiated a legal action against you. In both cases, it was likely determined that taking any further action simply wasn't cost effective. That doesn't mean that you were right in doing what you did.


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## ddrumer (Dec 3, 2004)

Upon activation of a receiver you agree to all terms provided, on the outside of the box, in the paperwork, and has anyone acutally read the terms provided on the cellophane of the access card that you agree to by opening it???? Not a lawyer here either, just a logical thinker. There is no way a multi billion corp. has not had many a legal hours put into determining just the right way to word their terms. Might be small print . . . .but so was the "Santa Clause." 

hey, just my 2 cents

ddrumer


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## tbeckner (Oct 26, 2001)

ddrumer said:


> hey, just my 2 cents
> 
> ddrumer


And a good 2 cents worth it is.

I bet most people do not spend the time to read it, the same way most people don't take the time to read the EULA's on software downloaded from the internet or even on purchased software that they buy at a store.

And even if they did, would they have a snowballs chance in hell of understanding what they just read. I know some lawyers who say they cant understand some the EULA legalese.


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## herdfan (Feb 5, 2003)

ddrumer said:


> Upon activation of a receiver you agree to all terms provided,


I agree totally.

I just think there will be fewer people willing to agree to the new terms than there were willing to agree to the old terms. End result, sub growth drops.


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## psyco2 (Feb 2, 2006)

It is official now, even Best Buy has the lease terms outlined in their new circular. Their website still hasn't been updated, however. 

I guess EBAY or the internet is the way to go to own your equipment outright, I'm doubtful the method I used earlier in the week will continue to work for receivers bought at Best Buy

Good luck to everyone with this new Leasing Model.


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## sotapoppy (Feb 7, 2004)

psyco2 said:


> It is official now, even Best Buy has the lease terms outlined in their new circular. Their website still hasn't been updated, however.
> 
> I guess EBAY or the internet is the way to go to own your equipment outright, I'm doubtful the method I used earlier in the week will continue to work for receivers bought at Best Buy
> 
> Good luck to everyone with this new Leasing Model.


It's going to be interesting to watch what happens to the value of owned HR10s now!


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

i 'think' the BB add said you can forget the 100 rebate and 'own' but dont quote me. I do recall something specifically that you had an option on the rebate. I'm sure someone will inform.


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## Marc (Jun 26, 1999)

DirecTV is now arguing with me that the DVR80 I purchased from Value Electronics back in January that I just activated (finally) yesterday is leased and that I'd be subject to returning it to them upon cancelling service.

_Edited to add..._

In order for them to "unlease" this receiver, I have to FAX them the receipt from the purchase, filled in with all the appropriate serial and access card numbers.


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## psyco2 (Feb 2, 2006)

Marc said:


> DirecTV is now arguing with me that the DVR80 I purchased from Value Electronics back in January that I just activated (finally) yesterday is leased and that I'd be subject to returning it to them upon cancelling service.
> 
> _Edited to add..._
> 
> In order for them to "unlease" this receiver, I have to FAX them the receipt from the purchase, filled in with all the appropriate serial and access card numbers.


Good luck with this.

Be sure to send your attorney general a nice letter asking for their assistance in the matter. I wonder if I will get a reply back regarding the letter I sent.


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## psyco2 (Feb 2, 2006)

newsposter said:


> i 'think' the BB add said you can forget the 100 rebate and 'own' but dont quote me. I do recall something specifically that you had an option on the rebate. I'm sure someone will inform.


Above the Yellow Tag where the price is in their ad, it says "Hardware use Fee" in black letters in regular type.


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## rifleman69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Marc said:


> DirecTV is now arguing with me that the DVR80 I purchased from Value Electronics back in January that I just activated (finally) yesterday is leased and that I'd be subject to returning it to them upon cancelling service.
> 
> _Edited to add..._
> 
> In order for them to "unlease" this receiver, I have to FAX them the receipt from the purchase, filled in with all the appropriate serial and access card numbers.


Surprised DirecTV hasn't hit you with a $150 charge for not activating within 30 days.


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## ddrumer (Dec 3, 2004)

Marc said:


> DirecTV is now arguing with me that the DVR80 I purchased from Value Electronics back in January that I just activated (finally) yesterday is leased and that I'd be subject to returning it to them upon cancelling service.
> 
> _Edited to add..._
> 
> In order for them to "unlease" this receiver, I have to FAX them the receipt from the purchase, filled in with all the appropriate serial and access card numbers.


Wow. . . . their being a real hard ass. . . . I would refuse to send them the info. I personally have principles and having someone try to bend me over is not in them : ) Who did you speak with?? A sup? Resolution Specialist? I would be shocked if a regular CSR asked you to do this. I would just tell them to disconnect the account and see if CRG can get it fixed for you.

ddrumer


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## Marc (Jun 26, 1999)

rifleman69 said:


> Surprised DirecTV hasn't hit you with a $150 charge for not activating within 30 days.


I don't know who would have charged me. I got a friendly reminder e-mail from Value Electronics warning me that I needed to activate the receiver or else I'd get charged.


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## goony (Nov 20, 2003)

Off topic...

The legal-lingo ones I like are on some software boxes/CDs: _*Opening this software container constitutes acceptance of the agreement contained within.*_


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## Tom J (Jan 25, 2004)

Even more off topic...

I'm amused by the small signs on commercial dump or sand trucks; "Stay back 500 feet. Not responsible for damage".

Or the ever popular signs in many parking lots; "Not responsible for cart damage".

Nice try.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Tom J said:


> Even more off topic...
> 
> I'm amused by the small signs on commercial dump or sand trucks; "Stay back 500 feet. Not responsible for damage".


Or the signs on railroad cars that say 'do not hump.'


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

goony said:


> Off topic...
> 
> The legal-lingo ones I like are on some software boxes/CDs: _*Opening this software container constitutes acceptance of the agreement contained within.*_


I'm fairly certain that those type of licenses do not really hold up in court. No way to give informed consent unless you ahve been informed first.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Lee L said:


> I'm fairly certain that those type of licenses do not really hold up in court. No way to give informed consent unless you ahve been informed first.


You mean the store really 'should' take back opened software if the licence is only on the disk itself?


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

here's a good summary of leasing

http://www.longhornxp.net/directv-urgent.html

I didn't copy/paste because it appears he changes it with some regularity and dont want to post bad info


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## onin24eagle (Feb 17, 2006)

SpankyInChicago said:


> This is obvious.


Funny


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## SpacemanSpiff (Jan 31, 2004)

I've got a HDVR2 sitting in a box, it was my main unit until I got an HDVR80 for Christmas. I wonder what D* will do if in the future I go to activate it.

I know I'm not the only person who has a few spare DVR's sitting around. I shouldn't have to activate it and just have it sitting on my account paying a mirroring fee until I decide I want it back on my account.


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## goony (Nov 20, 2003)

SpacemanSpiff said:


> I've got a HDVR2 sitting in a box, it was my main unit until I got an HDVR80 for Christmas. I wonder what D* will do if in the future I go to activate it.


I think they'll activate it, no problem. I have a few spare S2 DTivos myself.

*Unless DirecTV wants to embark on a Profit Prevention Program they'll keep the DTivo users happy and will welcome any DTivo boxes that people want to activate.*


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## ddrumer (Dec 3, 2004)

SpacemanSpiff said:


> I've got a HDVR2 sitting in a box, it was my main unit until I got an HDVR80 for Christmas. I wonder what D* will do if in the future I go to activate it.
> 
> I know I'm not the only person who has a few spare DVR's sitting around. I shouldn't have to activate it and just have it sitting on my account paying a mirroring fee until I decide I want it back on my account.


Its getting to be a really long thread so you may have missed my post that it is business as usual for previously activated irds and used equipment procedures. You won't have a problem


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## SpacemanSpiff (Jan 31, 2004)

You may know that, and I may know that, but do the CSR's know that?


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## ddrumer (Dec 3, 2004)

SpacemanSpiff said:


> You may know that, and I may know that, but do the CSR's know that?


Yes, I do!


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## psyco2 (Feb 2, 2006)

Even if a receiver is purchased from EBay, Garage Sale, or whatever. D*Tv is going to interpret that as a "Lease" after this month upon activation? Is this correct?


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## gsr (Sep 30, 2002)

Did DirecTV advertise that they were going to switch to a lease model ahead of time? I don't read this forum every day (I usually scan the forum a few times a month) and didn't get anything in the mail/email from DirecTV.

Had I known about the change to a leasing model, I might have purchased a 2nd HR10-250 before the end of February to replace one of my HDVR2's. Now, there's no way I'd add another HR10-250 - I'm not about to pay them $499 for a box that I have to return if I switch to cable and I'm not going to pay $799 for one.

To echo what others have said, this new model really isn't good for the customer. Back in post #55, ddrumer said:


> Its easy to see its the same price, essentially. Only thing is now DTV will want the HD-DVR back instead of holding on to it/selling it on ebay.


That minor little point about keeping the equipment or selling it on ebay is actually a huge difference as you can (or used to be able to) recover a pretty significant percentage of the original purchase price of a HD Tivo (or even come out ahead) by selling it on ebay. Taking that away is a minimum of a $300 difference - not even remotely trivial on something people have typically been buying for $200-500 (or sometimes even less), depending on rebates and what they could negotiate with customer service.

To this customer, it really feels like DirecTV is trying hard to alienate customers and put themselves out of business. Over the next few years, there are only going to be more options to choose from. I don't believe Verizon FIOS is available in my city yet, but Comcast certainly is. The series 3 Tivo with cablecard support will be available soon enough which will make Comcast a pretty attractive option (even if the series 3 Tivo is expensive, at least I'd own the thing) and I'm sure other options will become available too. The last thing DirecTV should be doing is anything that causes their customer base to migrate to service from another vendor - that's not a good business model.


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## ddrumer (Dec 3, 2004)

psyco2 said:


> Even if a receiver is purchased from EBay, Garage Sale, or whatever. D*Tv is going to interpret that as a "Lease" after this month upon activation? Is this correct?


Yes, unless you tell them that you purchased the receiver outright. Directv will default any manually created cards (when a csr creates it, instead of the ordering system). If you purchased it used you own it and will need to go to the Access card Dept. to have a new card sent out and they will set it up as "OWN"

ddrumer


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## goony (Nov 20, 2003)

gsr said:


> To this customer, it really feels like DirecTV is trying hard to alienate customers and put themselves out of business.


Funny, some regular Tivo users are thinking/saying the same thing about Tivo.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

http://www.newlaunches.com/archives/samsung_sl10d10_-_portable_directv_player.php

The Samsung SL10D10 is a DirecTV player with a large 10.2 inch LCD display with 16:9 image aspect ratio, making it ideal for your kitchen and office. With a unique swivel design and backlit control panel it can conveniently be mounted under a cabinet with the included mouiting kit. It features 250 channels, 75 channels of XM Radio, 10 watts of stereo sound, AV input for connecting other devices. The Samsung SL10D10 will be available in March 2006 for $ 499.

---
can't imagine someone actually taking back my leased tv


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## jcricket (Sep 11, 2002)

I think that most of the receivers that DirecTV is "leasing" they are also selling, just at a higher price. So, you can buy the HR10-250 for $799 or lease it for $499 + $5/month. So, this $499 is probably a purchase price, meaning it's yours to keep/sell/burn.

That reminds me. If you (for example), lease an R15 and then buy the forthcoming HR20 (let's say for $600), do I only pay the $5 lease fee on the R15 and nothing else (beyond programming) for the HR20? Or do I also pay a $5 mirroring fee still?


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## ddrumer (Dec 3, 2004)

jcricket said:


> I think that most of the receivers that DirecTV is "leasing" they are also selling, just at a higher price. So, you can buy the HR10-250 for $799 or lease it for $499 + $5/month. So, this $499 is probably a purchase price, meaning it's yours to keep/sell/burn.


Ahhhh . . . . NO. . . . Its almost not even worth it to repost this info but, The purchase price is $749. The $499 charge is the Equipment upgrade fee for the Receiver, you do not own it and if you sell it and do not return the receiver upon disconnection of the account or the receiver itself there will be an Unreturned Equipment Fee charged. This fee can be reversed once receiver is returned as long as its w/in the ~288 (diff days depending on involuntary disconnet or vouluntary disconnect, i know one situation is 288 days) day window. After the ~288th day the fee will not be reversed no matter how hard you try to have it reversed.

And please read the beginning part of the thread

ddrumer


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## skaeight (Jan 20, 2004)

I read somewhere that you have until March 31 to activate previously purchased (but not yet activated) equipment to have d* consider it "owned". Is this correct?

Also what happens if I decative an "owned" receiver for a month or two. When I reactivate it, will I still "own" it?


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## Blurayfan (Oct 6, 2003)

skaeight said:


> I read somewhere that you have until March 31 to activate previously purchased (but not yet activated) equipment to have d* consider it "owned". Is this correct?
> 
> Also what happens if I decative an "owned" receiver for a month or two. When I reactivate it, will I still "own" it?


March 31 is the latest date I've seen discussed. As to a receiver you already own it will stay listed on DirecTV records as owned even if inactive presently.


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## skaeight (Jan 20, 2004)

DVDKingdom said:


> March 31 is the latest date I've seen discussed. As to a receiver you already own it will stay listed on DirecTV records as owned even if inactive presently.


Ok, it looks like I'm going to have to get this thing activated so I don't forfeit ownership rights to it. I guess they're going to hit me with a 2 year commitment when I do so(it's a directivo), correct?


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## Blurayfan (Oct 6, 2003)

skaeight said:


> Ok, it looks like I'm going to have to get this thing activated so I don't forfeit ownership rights to it. I guess they're going to hit me with a 2 year commitment when I do so(it's a directivo), correct?


The commitment is 2 years for any advanced products (HD receiver, SD or HD DVRs). Here is the tricky part If you purchase any receiver directly from DirecTV from March 1 on there is nolonger a commitment, but prices have increased. Only leased equipment has a commitment going forward.


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## skaeight (Jan 20, 2004)

DVDKingdom said:


> The commitment is 2 years for any advanced products (HD receiver, SD or HD DVRs). Here is the tricky part If you purchase any receiver directly from DirecTV from March 1 on there is nolonger a commitment, but prices have increased.


So I have two choices (correct me if I'm wrong):

1. Activate it without mentioning, how & when I bought it, they will set it up as a lease. No commitment. However should I leave d*, the receiver needs to be sent back.
****EDIT****
I went back and reread what you wrote, and figured out that you meant actually buying the receiver outright directly from d*. Disregard #1. I guess I only have one option, as I am assuming that a Leased reciever will reup my commitment.
***EDIT*****

2. Make it clear this receiver was purchased outright prior to 3/1. Re-up for 2 year commitment, but the reciever is mine.

What happens if I want to temporarily deactive the reciever in scenario #1? Will they expect me to return the receiver to them as soon as I deactive it, or is it only once I close my account?


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## Blurayfan (Oct 6, 2003)

skaeight said:


> So I have two choices (correct me if I'm wrong):
> 
> 1. Activate it without mentioning, how & when I bought it, they will set it up as a lease. No commitment. However should I leave d*, the receiver needs to be sent back.
> 
> ...


2. Correct

EDIT: removed nolonger needed response.


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## skaeight (Jan 20, 2004)

DVDKingdom said:


> 1a. If they set it up as a lease you will have a commitment for sure and it will need to be returned when you leave.
> 
> 1b. No, you don't send it back until you close your account for now anyways, DirecTV could always change that policy.
> 
> 2. Correct


Ok, thanks. See my edited post above, I realized what you really said. Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to have to think about this because I need to buy a harddrive to be able to use the receiver (it was a $35 refurb from weaknees). Not sure if it's worth it at this point. If I can deactivate the receiver and still retain it as long as my account is still open, then I'm probably OK with the lease option.


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## Blurayfan (Oct 6, 2003)

skaeight said:


> Ok, thanks. See my edited post above, I realized what you really said. Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to have to think about this because I need to buy a harddrive to be able to use the receiver (it was a $35 refurb from weaknees). Not sure if it's worth it at this point. If I can deactive the receiver and still retain it as long as my account is still open, then I'm probably OK with it.


I would activate now just to protect my ownership status, you can always deactivate it later this won't change your account status (owned vs. leased) upon reactivating.


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## skaeight (Jan 20, 2004)

DVDKingdom said:


> I would activate now just to protect my ownership status, you can always deactivate it later this won't change your account status (owned vs. leased) upon reactivating.


Yeah, you're probably right. Gotta weigh the 2 year commitment. BTW, are you a CSR or dealer or something? You seem to have a lot of good information.


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## Blurayfan (Oct 6, 2003)

skaeight said:


> Yeah, you're probably right. Gotta weigh the 2 year commitment. BTW, are you a CSR or dealer or something? You seem to have a lot of good information.


No, just a customer of D* for last six years, I asked many of these questions myself of the D* CSRs last month when reactivating equipment.


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## BioTechnician (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't know about you guys this is too confusing. Time to switch to cable. Sorry D you forced me.


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## beanpoppa (Jan 7, 2004)

I could understand switching because you want more HD, or you don't like the upfront aquisition cost of the equipment. But switching to cable because this is too confusing? If you want equipment, they'll charge you for it, and then you pay a monthly fee. Agree or disagree on whether it's a good deal or not, but it's not confusing. (mis-information being spread through the newsgroups, not withstanding)



BioTechnician said:


> I don't know about you guys this is too confusing. Time to switch to cable. Sorry D you forced me.


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## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

Ok what happens if i reactivate recievers that were purchased way before 3/1/2006 but were deactivated several months ago. Since they were previously activated and in the D* system what happens and do you re up? Also what happens if one replaces the one thats active now?

JEEEEZZZ!! Life was much simpler, at least D* life, Before 3/1/2006



EDIT: Ok spoke to 5 different CSR 2 were supervisors in retention They said any previously activated equiptment. does not fall into the lease situation or bump up your commitment. If the equiptment was purchased and activated before 3/1 regardless when you reactivate. so the 4 units i took off my account 3 months ago can be activated in 2 years from now and are still mine and wont re up me.


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## BioTechnician (Aug 2, 2003)

No its not just the confusing fees. Its the hole down hill spiral that has been going on. No HMO, tivo is gone and the HD content is just not there. Plus the price increase year after year now.


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## jrinck (Nov 24, 2004)

The only two TV choices I have, unfortunately, are DTV and DISH. Even so, if I ever get forced into a "YOU BUY IT BUT WE OWN IT" type of deal with them, I'll think long and hard about just turning the TV off for good.

I never thought I'd say this, but I really wish I could get cable!


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## samdu (Jun 2, 2003)

I just noticed this thread last night. I ordered an HDTV from Costco a few weeks ago and figured I'd start checking around for what kind of deal DTV came up with to replace the one that ended on the first. MAN was I disappointed when I read this thread. After considering everything, I was starting to think about making the move to >shudder< Comast Cable. However, I think what I may do, and something for everyone to consider, is to get the non-TiVo HD box from D* and build a MythTV box. Yeah, it's more complex, but there are also advantages to it. But I just don't see me paying $500 up front to lease a machine that I can buy for $750 (that I could ALSO have bought last month for $500 and a rebate). Thanks for all the info, though.


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## skaeight (Jan 20, 2004)

samdu said:


> I just noticed this thread last night. I ordered an HDTV from Costco a few weeks ago and figured I'd start checking around for what kind of deal DTV came up with to replace the one that ended on the first. MAN was I disappointed when I read this thread. After considering everything, I was starting to think about making the move to >shudder< Comast Cable. However, I think what I may do, and something for everyone to consider, is to get the non-TiVo HD box from D* and build a MythTV box. Yeah, it's more complex, but there are also advantages to it. But I just don't see me paying $500 up front to lease a machine that I can buy for $750 (that I could ALSO have bought last month for $500 and a rebate). Thanks for all the info, though.


I'm willing to bet that you will spend way over $500 to build a mythbox, especially if you're planning make it HD capable. I'm not quite sure how well mythtv would handle an HD signal from a directv box. Does anyone have any experience with this?

Plus you're going to have to deal with IR blasters, and if you want a "dual tuner" mythbox, you'll have to spring for a second HD reciever (and another "monthly lease fee".

Mythboxes are great with analog cable, or OTA HD, but I doubt I'd want to deal with them with directv or digital cable, simply because the providers offer a much better integrated solution.


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## jrinck (Nov 24, 2004)

Here's my lease analogy:

Would you lease a $25,000 car if they told you that you had to pay $20,000 upfront for the privilege, then pay $500 per month as long as you had it in your possession? 

No, you wouldn't.

This is the exact type of thing that DirecTV is trying to do, however.

:down:


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

Exactly. If they were closer to 10% up front, say $50, maybe $100 for an HD DVR, it would seem much more fair and in line with their competitors.


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## Marc (Jun 26, 1999)

Sigh... DirecTV changed my recently activated receiver back to "leased". I'm getting back in contact with them to fix it... again!


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## samdu (Jun 2, 2003)

skaeight said:


> I'm willing to bet that you will spend way over $500 to build a mythbox, especially if you're planning make it HD capable. I'm not quite sure how well mythtv would handle an HD signal from a directv box. Does anyone have any experience with this?
> 
> Plus you're going to have to deal with IR blasters, and if you want a "dual tuner" mythbox, you'll have to spring for a second HD reciever (and another "monthly lease fee".
> 
> Mythboxes are great with analog cable, or OTA HD, but I doubt I'd want to deal with them with directv or digital cable, simply because the providers offer a much better integrated solution.


I have a lot of the components for a Myth box sitting around not being used. Besides, MythTV, like I said, has some advantages that TiVo doesn't (not that I don't love TiVo). And I'd actually OWN the MythTV box. The second tuner issue is something to consider, though. I really haven't made a decision yet. But it might still be more efficient in the long run to build a MythTV box with two receivers. I can't believe D* has pushed me to this. I've been a subscriber for about ten years and I've had a DirecTiVo for a few. Picked it up for $100. Best $100 I've ever spent. It's just beyond my comprehension as to how an HD DirecTiVo can cost $750.00. The two HD tuners and ATSC tuners can't cost THAT much more. And they're practically GIVING away 200 GB hard drives nowadays. And I won't even mention the ridiculous "lease" thing. Just that I hope they are sending kisses to people that sign up for it.


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## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

SpacemanSpiff said:


> I've got a HDVR2 sitting in a box, it was my main unit until I got an HDVR80 for Christmas. I wonder what D* will do if in the future I go to activate it.
> 
> I know I'm not the only person who has a few spare DVR's sitting around. I shouldn't have to activate it and just have it sitting on my account paying a mirroring fee until I decide I want it back on my account.


Too bad you could have activated it with the #'s on the box than deacivated it right away. Than the lease issue would be moot as well as bumping your commitment. If you activated it before the change to 2 year It would not affect your commitment when you re activate. I have 4 spares activated than deactivated before the fun began. I should (Repeat again SHOULD) be able to activate them anytime in the future. Ya never know with this company they change the rules all the time.


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## 300M (Dec 1, 2005)

Marc said:


> Sigh... DirecTV changed my recently activated receiver back to "leased". I'm getting back in contact with them to fix it... again!


Did they change it back to "additional receiver" for you? I just took a look at my bill and noticed they did the same thing to me.


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## Marc (Jun 26, 1999)

Not yet. I'm waiting to hear back from them.


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## 300M (Dec 1, 2005)

Marc said:


> Not yet. I'm waiting to hear back from them.


I just called D* back and asked them to switch my HR10-250 from leased receiver back to additional receiver (again). The Cust rep stated that because they made the change only in the in their new system last time, it magaically switched back to a leased receiver. He said the had to get a supervisor to go in the the old system (pre March 1st system) and make the change there as well. He assured me I wont need to keep calling back every 30 days, but I guess time will tell.


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## jeshaffer (Feb 15, 2004)

Does anyone have the actual information for "upgraders"? 

I can only assume the new lease model is a way they can recoup some of the cost of upgrading those of us who bought the $1000 boat anchor so they can "give" us a new leased mpeg4 model. It appears we will be able trade "up" to the new model, paying extra if we want to own it.

If this is the new way they are going to approach getting my business then they will be getting a spot on the list of companies I refuse to do business with. I will pay extra for comcast just so I don't have to fund this colossal screw job.


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## dlmcmurr (Mar 2, 2006)

Just checked my e-bill and my dsr704 that I bought on eBay is showing as leased. Since the cost is the same as non-leased, I guess the only problem is if they want it back later? Don't feel like calling them tonight, maybe tomorrow. BTW, when I added it, she started to tell me that she was adding a one year commitment, then she said no, it was two years. She had to first check with a supervisor before deleting it. Maybe I'll get someone that speaks English.


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## BBQ-AllStar (Jan 27, 2002)

I sent an email last night to DirecTV about an HDVR2 that I activated 2 weeks ago -- the HDVR2 was my parents that I replaced with a HR10-250 back in December.

It showed up as leased on my bill....I sent the email (see below). They replied today and even called my house and left a message -- I was not at home. Pretty good service I say.

In my email I complained about their lease program and their cancellation of the contract with TiVo come Feb 2007. I told them I love TiVos and that I want to add 2 more to my system -- but I do not want to lease them. I told them I would buy them used somewhere...

Here is my original email:

*Subject: Adding TiVo Receivers to my Account

Details: Hello,

I just replaced a DirecTV receiver (DSX5500) with a TiVo (HDVR2) that was owned by my parents before I installed a HD-TiVo (HR10-250) at Christmas time. We de-activated the HDVR2 on their account and 2 weeks ago I decided to activate that receiver on my account. After having to order a new Access card for that receiver and activating the HDVR2, I notice that the HDVR2 shows up on my last bill as "Leased". I am confused about this...My parents bought the tivo 2 years ago and now I activated it -- why is it considered a "Leased" receiver?? Don't I own it??

I have heard rumors on the internet, and not from DirecTV, that customers will no longer be able to activate purchased/used receivers.

I am a huge TiVo fan and am very disappointed that DirecTV has canceled their aggreement with TiVo -- thus canceling the service in Feb 2007. When that time comes, I will probably cancel my DirecTV subscription. I know DirecTV has their own DVRs...but from what I've seen and heard -- they just do not compare to TiVo brand receivers.

Anyway, could you please get back to me on why my parents TiVo (HDVR2) that I activated is considered a "Leased Receiver"?.

Also, when is DirecTV supposed to discontinue the addition of used TiVo receivers to accounts?? I would like to know because if it is soon, then I would like to activate two more tivos and place them in my kid's rooms.

I might as well enjoy the TiVos since the service that you provide will be expiring soon...

Thank you for your time and reply,

BBQ*

Here is their "QUICK" reply:

_Dear Mr. BBQ

Thank you for writing. I am sorry to hear of your frustration regarding TiVo and your account. As you requested, I have made the necessary corrections to your account to reflect the appropriate information. The equipment that you have recently activated has been changed to owned equipment. This should not have been listed as leased equipment. I apologize for any confusion and appreciate your patience.

While DIRECTV has introduced a new DVR, we will continue to support the DIRECTV DVR with TiVo and standalone TiVo service. If you are using the DIRECTV DVR with TiVo or a TiVo stand alone you can continue using your existing equipment.

In addition, you can add used receivers to your account, but there are certain guidelines that we ask you to follow:

1. The person who gives you the DIRECTV System should call DIRECTV to de-activate the DIRECTV System access card. This is for the original owner's protection.

2. You, the new owner, should call 1-800-DIRECTV to order a new access card. We will charge you $20 for the new access card, which we send out via Federal Express, along with a postage-paid envelope to make returning the old card easy.

3. You can install the equipment personally or call a professional installer for help. The installation manual and owner's manual  and any other information that came with the equipment  can be especially helpful in this process. If you don't have the manual for the new receiver, we have copies of most owners manuals on our web site at DIRECTV.xxx/manuals.

If you have any additional concerns or questions regarding these issues, you also have the option of contacting our Customer Service Department at (800) 531-5000. One of our Customer Service Representatives will be able to assist you further.

Thanks again for writing and stay tuned to DIRECTV.xxx for the latest news and information about our services.

Sincerely,

Monica
DIRECTV Customer Service_


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## jtb (Nov 20, 2002)

A few internet sites(newegg and ecost)do not state that the HDTivo is a upfront lease charge.Am i to assume that DTV still considers these a lease when you activate it?


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## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

jtb said:


> A few internet sites(newegg and ecost)do not state that the HDTivo is a upfront lease charge.Am i to assume that DTV still considers these a lease when you activate it?


Yes. Any new equiptment activated after 3/1 is under the lease program.


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## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

This Lease program is gonna cause D* a flood of calls and what not and alot of extra manpower to correct things. The problem is is that If you activate something on your account that was not there before, The system will consider it a lease regardless of the fact that 1. perhaps it was your sons and he gave it to you 2. you bought it used from ebay and it origionaly was bought years ago. The stupid computer at D* Cant tell the difference between a new and used machine. Jeez if you activate a series 1 it will show as a lease even though there is no way in heck that is even close to new.


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## ddrumer (Dec 3, 2004)

Billy Bob Boy said:


> This Lease program is gonna cause D* a flood of calls and what not and alot of extra manpower to correct things. The problem is is that If you activate something on your account that was not there before, The system will consider it a lease regardless of the fact that 1. perhaps it was your sons and he gave it to you 2. you bought it used from ebay and it origionaly was bought years ago. The stupid computer at D* Cant tell the difference between a new and used machine. Jeez if you activate a series 1 it will show as a lease even though there is no way in heck that is even close to new.


Yes it will activate as leased. It is default in the system. Though you may disagree, there are so few ppl that are calling to activate a used/pre 3/1 ird as owned that it is not over powering the reps. When reading the entire thread would prove to be a simple step to resolve.

1. Tell the rep that the receiver is owned.
2. rep will transfer you over to the access card dept to change the flag to Owned.

and you're done.

One thing to keep in mind is that if you follow dtv's used receiver policy when you call to activate a used receiver you will be sent to the access card dept. to order a card. at that time they set it up as owned if everything checks out. Very simple actually . . . . .

ddrumer


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## BBQ-AllStar (Jan 27, 2002)

ddrumer said:


> Yes it will activate as leased. It is default in the system. Though you may disagree, there are so few ppl that are calling to activate a used/pre 3/1 ird as owned that it is not over powering the reps. When reading the entire thread would prove to be a simple step to resolve.
> 
> 1. Tell the rep that the receiver is owned.
> 2. rep will transfer you over to the access card dept to change the flag to Owned.
> ...


Umm, just so you know...I was transferred to the access card dept. because I told them it was a used receiver that was once owned by my parents - but now owned by me -- the access card dept needed to send me a new card -- they wouldn't let me use my parents old card - the rep took all my info down (rec ID, DVR service #, etc) and knew it was a used receiver -- but I still get flagged with "Lease". So what you're saying does not always work -- you probably have to reiterate to the person you are talking to that the receiver is a used receiver and to flag it as owned. Nothing works automatically these days...


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

I hate to think of a positive....but i have an old sony b65 sitting around dormant. Turned it off last summer. if i go to activate it, by definition they will put this as a lease from what i read on here. Just curious if anyone can think of an advantage to doing this to getting a reduced upgrade if i ever decide to do it?


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## BBQ-AllStar (Jan 27, 2002)

From what ddrumer has said and what my posted email states...it will NOT BE activated as leased. You own it, it is a used system and you want to reactivate it as "used" and "purchased", not leased.

What kind of upgrade are you expecting...the Sat-B65 is not a HD receiver...you could probably take advantage of upgrading it to one of DirecTV's DVRs...


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

just looking for an 'in' if at all possible down the road. Nothing in mind at the moment. From what i hear DTV pretty much defaults to lease on everything. Just trying to make a positive out of it.


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## BBQ-AllStar (Jan 27, 2002)

They will "default" to lease...but you must tell them that this is a "Owned" receiver, not a new one, and therefore should be stated as "Purchased" not "Leased" on your account.

If it shows up as "Leased" then I'd recommend doing what I did...send an email and complain/tell them to change it. This was almost faster than calling them and I didn't have to stay online or talk in circles with a CSR.

just my .02

Also, from what I understand, you can add a "Used" receiver anytime...not just by the end of this month (March 31st) = tomorrow.


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## jsup (Mar 21, 2006)

Am I the only one not having a problem. I picked up three more Tivos off of EBAY, for a total of four, called them, activated the card, and all is fine.

BTW, you don't need a new card. They try to sell you one, then you just ***** and tell them you have one from your other receiver and don't need a new one. Then they'll change it.

I called back again the next day and asked, all my receivers show up as owned.

The ONLY time, according to direct tv, that the equipment is leased is if you get it from them. I was told, yes told not in writing, that if you buy a reciever from Circuit City it is considered owned. I don't believe it, but that's their position and they seem to be sticking to it.

They are doing this to improve their balance sheet. That's it. By leasing it they can show company assests on the books. The pain in the ass is that you have to ship it back. If I cancel, I have no use for it anyway.


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## BBQ-AllStar (Jan 27, 2002)

jsup said:


> Am I the only one not having a problem. I picked up three more Tivos off of EBAY, for a total of four, called them, activated the card, and all is fine.
> 
> BTW, you don't need a new card. They try to sell you one, then you just ***** and tell them you have one from your other receiver and don't need a new one. Then they'll change it.
> 
> ...


Well, I *****ed and moaned about not buying another Access Card...why couldn't I just use my parent's card that came with the tivo. The Access Dept CSR strictly told me that they will no longer "unmarry" and "remarry" access cards.

I am not dumb on this matter and told them they could easily do this over the satellite...and that they have done it in the past...the guy strictly said "Not any more".

I basically said that I didn't want to pay for another card and that I wouldn't be home to sign for it if they did send one...he said "Oh well, then you can't activate the receiver". I finally gave in...now if you are saying they will still do it, then I'm pissed and will call them immediately for a refund for the $60 in cards!!!


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## beanpoppa (Jan 7, 2004)

It depends on the CSR you get. It seems that the general rule is that they will not activate someone else's access card on your account. If you flat-out tell them that you bought a receiver on eBay, for example, your chances are slim that they'll activate it. I had luck activating a DVR that I got from a friend of mine. (so I knew his name, address, etc) I told them that it was mine, but that our service had previously been under his name, as we were roomates. You should be able to work the same line with a receiver that you got from a family member.



BBQ-AllStar said:


> Well, I *****ed and moaned about not buying another Access Card...why couldn't I just use my parent's card that came with the tivo. The Access Dept CSR strictly told me that they will no longer "unmarry" and "remarry" access cards.
> 
> I am not dumb on this matter and told them they could easily do this over the satellite...and that they have done it in the past...the guy strictly said "Not any more".
> 
> I basically said that I didn't want to pay for another card and that I wouldn't be home to sign for it if they did send one...he said "Oh well, then you can't activate the receiver". I finally gave in...now if you are saying they will still do it, then I'm pissed and will call them immediately for a refund for the $60 in cards!!!


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## jsup (Mar 21, 2006)

BBQ-AllStar said:


> Well, I *****ed and moaned about not buying another Access Card...why couldn't I just use my parent's card that came with the tivo. The Access Dept CSR strictly told me that they will no longer "unmarry" and "remarry" access cards.
> 
> I am not dumb on this matter and told them they could easily do this over the satellite...and that they have done it in the past...the guy strictly said "Not any more".
> 
> I basically said that I didn't want to pay for another card and that I wouldn't be home to sign for it if they did send one...he said "Oh well, then you can't activate the receiver". I finally gave in...now if you are saying they will still do it, then I'm pissed and will call them immediately for a refund for the $60 in cards!!!


I just did it *YESTERDAY*. They are lying to you. I did another one TWO WEEKS AGO, and another one TWO WEEKS BEFORE THAT. I told them I purchased a system off EBAY and had no problem, either time.

I got rid of all my boxes and got TiVos in place, before they become unavailable.

I call tech support over customer service. They never had a problem doing it. Customer service starts giving me a line of crap and I just tell them to give me to tech support.

It's not that they CAN'T. Escalate. Get a manager.


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## BBQ-AllStar (Jan 27, 2002)

jsup said:


> I just did it *YESTERDAY*. They are lying to you. I did another one TWO WEEKS AGO, and another one TWO WEEKS BEFORE THAT. I told them I purchased a system off EBAY and had no problem, either time.
> 
> I got rid of all my boxes and got TiVos in place, before they become unavailable.
> 
> ...


Thanks jsup...I'm gonna escalate and get a manager...

cheers


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

BBQ-AllStar said:


> Thanks jsup...I'm gonna escalate and get a manager...
> 
> cheers


ever get this changed to owned?


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## BBQ-AllStar (Jan 27, 2002)

Getting it changed to owned wasn't the problem...that got changed when I sent the email that I listed a few pages back.

What I wanted back was my $20 they MADE me pay to get a new access card for my "used" tivo. They said I couldn't use the old card that came with the unit -- and this was my parent's old HDVR2 - so it was "kept" in the family...

Anyways, I called customer retention the other day, and they credited me $20, and I also added another TiVo (5 now) to my system -- the CSR at customer rentention allowed me to use an old card that I had in an old revceiver that I deactivated months ago.

Everything went smooth with no extra payments, cards, or hassles...the DSR7000 that I activated was done so as "used" - so now I have no "leased" receivers. I also upgraded my package from Total Choice Plus to Premiere...they gave it to me for $73.99 for 6 months...that's $25 off the monthly usual...

So, to make a long story short...call Customer Retention for all your account needs...period.


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## psyco2 (Feb 2, 2006)

I haven't followed this thread in a while, but I like the information being given.

Don't forget to write your attorney generals about DirecTv's business practice.

I wrote mine and hope that there are many others doing the same.


**EDIT**
=======

After reading the messages here, decided to go online and check my account and what do you know, my receiver had been reverted back to a lease. 

Now, I have reason to write a second follow-up letter to the Attorney General while the first investigation is still on-going. 

DirecTV is screwing the customer big time.


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## psyco2 (Feb 2, 2006)

I also found this settlement link, by searching for DirecTV at the attornery general's site for Florida.

DirecTV Settlment (State of Florida)

*EXCERPT*
To receive restitution, consumers must either have filed complaints in the past with the Attorney General or DIRECTV concerning these issues, or file complaints with the Attorney General or DIRECTV to be received no later than *May 11, 2006.*


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## PeterGriffin (May 25, 2005)

What if it's a refurbished unit from Ebay. If you buy one of those is it considered owned or leased?


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## BBQ-AllStar (Jan 27, 2002)

PeterGriffin said:


> What if it's a refurbished unit from Ebay. If you buy one of those is it considered owned or leased?


4 of my 5 TiVos have been bought on ebay...non of them are flagged as "leased"...like I said, if you've been a customer for a little while, call Customer Retention, not Customer Service...


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

heck i'll probably call retention to activate the receiver and hopefully bypass the regular csr


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## Vectr (Jun 13, 2002)

Anyone have luck activating the units from Newegg post 3/31 as non-lease?


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## psyco2 (Feb 2, 2006)

IF anyone has any luck activiating an Ebay unit, please advise. I am thinking about getting another HR10-250.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

xposting this since info is relevant to those trying to activate owned units. 

Prior to buying $398 newegg HDtivo, i emailed directv and asked if it would be owned or leased. They said owned, in writing. Called tonight to activate it (via my superspecial toll free number of course). the dude asked how much I paid. I said what difference does that make? I guess I could have lied and said 800 since he told me I needed to pay that much for an owned receiver and if it was only 400 then it's leased. 

But instead I reiterated that I emailed 2 online retailers AND DTV and they all said owned. He then transferred me to (I assume) the access card dept, since that's what i said he should do. Then she started in with the lease etc and I had to retell the story again. As soon as she heard the word ONLINE purchase, she changed her tone immediately and said she'd change it to owned right away and thanked me for being 'the best customer' and she was glad she could help me.

So the key word appears to be 'online.' Good luck everyone and make sure you write down days/times you call and who you talked to.


geez online statement now says lease...gotta email i guess


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## extension 721 (Sep 29, 2005)

The main reason I see D* doing this is that when people with "owned" receivers quit D*, the receivers go into the attic or in the trash...receivers that D* paid $150 to manufacture, and either sold for $50 or "gave" away.

With "lease" D* hopes to recover what WOULD be dust-gatherers and re-use them with new subs.

remember that the original receivers cost anywhere from $500 to $1000, and the Dtivos still cost more than $200 to put together. Heck, I challenge anyone to find a FREE HD off-air tuner. The cheapest one is at the very least $20 and probably closer to $40. 
The HD tivo has a dual-tuner "digital antenna only" TIVO built right in. Does that run any less than $1000 at circuit city? ( I see a cheap LG non-tivo DVR with half the hard drive(120), half the program guide(8 day), and only one tuner for $500 ON SALE) heck, you can't even watch RECORDED shows on it while recording. With TIVO you can record 2 while witching a third, prerecorded prog!!!!

The only notable difference with the "lease" from the "own" is that when you're done with it, it gets shipped back. Big whoop. If you cancel D* do you really WANT to keep the boxes?


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

well they changed mine back to owned and i confirmed it online. Excellent service!

talking about HDtivo leases:

i think the recovery of upfront cost is a big deal to most people. You have a chance at selling if you own but when you lease and cancel (even within a short time) you lose 400 bucks. Period. Can't even get 50 bucks on ebay. 

I've never researched it but find it hard to believe that someone who paid 1000 for a hdtivo would let it sit unused or unsold if the canceled service after just a few months. But we probably can't survey that population as it wont be prevalent on this board (we all use them). I just dont subscribe to the line that people throw away $1000 pieces of machinery. (store them maybe). Now if you are talking about the cheaper SD boxes, i can see the 'free' ones as being throwaway. So let directv least them but still sell the HDtivo. Why not?

but even if they do trash them, why does directv care? they already got their up front money plus their subscription (or cancel fee). Thats why they have those built in to any contract. They get their money either way.


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## hoopsrgreat (Jan 2, 2005)

It seems to me they created their own problems. All of us on this board are very aware that HDtivos could be had for a pretty cheap price for several months. When we paid the price, the machine was OURS.

Now fastforward a few months and we can still get the boxes for close to the same price but now the box is actually D*'s and we are leasing them?

Lets ee, but a new car for 25k and after paying it off it is mine. My next car purchase the car co. says after you pay the car off and you are done with it, the car must be returned??
I dont think so.


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## JaserLet (Dec 13, 2005)

I'm confused. I purchased two refurb DVR40s on eBay in February 2006 as spares for the three that I'm currently using. The two refurbs have not been activated, they are sitting in their boxes with their brand new, still-sealed access cards. 

When I activate these two DVR40s, will they all of a sudden belong to DirecTV and put me into a lease situation?

This is the first I've heard of this crazyness! I've been a DirecTV customer for 10 years. How can I own my existing 3 activated DVRs, but not the two never-activated refurbs?

Please correct / explain this to me!


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

jaser they are owned..just say you bought them online


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