# 2-TUNER EDGE OTA OBSERVATIONS



## bricco

Puzzling occurrence with new 2-tuner TiVo. Background: Have owned every TiVo device since 1999. Even switched away from DIRECTV when they dropped TiVo. Just got the 2 tuner OTAEdge from Channel Master. I was going to use as an extra local (non-networked) device to consume my programming in one location with a wired Ethernet connection. After a little playing around I found that the WIFI (no-wired or MOCA) connection not only could see other devices (which I knew) but could play from other devices on the network. The big plus, and maybe its a mistake, was that my Minis could not only play the recordings, but use the tuners for live TV. Right now my Kitchen Mini is using the 2 tuner box as its source.My understanding was that you need a 4-6 tuner box to feed the Minis and use as a source. Is this random? My questions: can all 2 tuner Edge devices be a source for Minis? And, is WIFI acceptable for streaming shows from box to box? I thought otherwise in both cases.

TiVo 6 tuner Roamio Pro
TiVo Edge for Antenna 4 tuner
TiVo Edge for Antenna 2 tuner
4 Mini VOX


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## JoeKustra

bricco said:


> Puzzling occurrence with new 2-tuner TiVo. Background: Have owned every TiVo device since 1999. Even switched away from DIRECTV when they dropped TiVo. Just got the 2 tuner OTAEdge from Channel Master. I was going to use as an extra local (non-networked) device to consume my programming in one location with a wired Ethernet connection. After a little playing around I found that the WIFI (no-wired or MOCA) connection not only could see other devices (which I knew) but could play from other devices on the network. The big plus, and maybe its a mistake, was that my Minis could not only play the recordings, but use the tuners for live TV. Right now my Kitchen Mini is using the 2 tuner box as its source.My understanding was that you need a 4-6 tuner box to feed the Minis and use as a source. Is this random? My questions: can all 2 tuner Edge devices be a source for Minis? And, is WIFI acceptable for streaming shows from box to box? I thought otherwise in both cases.
> TiVo 6 tuner Roamio Pro
> TiVo Edge for Antenna 4 tuner
> TiVo Edge for Antenna 2 tuner
> 4 Mini VOX


There have been improvements in networking over the years. Plus the newer boxes all have better internal processors. You could be observing the side effects. I'm guessing the Mini all display with TiVo Online, but that's illogical.


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## krkaufman

bricco said:


> My questions: can all 2 tuner Edge devices be a source for Minis?


Marketing materials indicate this is by design. (Mini streaming is supported.)

Really, once TiVo implemented dynamic tuner allocation, there wasn't a reason that they couldn't have allowed 2-tuner Premieres to act as host DVRs, but chose not to for some reason. The only issue is competition for tuners when viewing live TV.



bricco said:


> And, is WIFI acceptable for streaming shows from box to box?


As for wireless, that's a different issue. TiVo officially requires wired connections (Ethernet or MoCA) for streaming between boxes, whether for MRS or Minis, but the devices don't perform any actual check ... so plenty of people are using wireless connections where sufficient throughput is available. The number of concurrent streams is also a factor.


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## Old Roamio 0

I bought an Edge tivo on Black Friday. Just 2 tuners will be tight, but it is at present my "affordable solution". I ordered an indoor antennae too, as it is ota.


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## shwru980r

bricco said:


> Puzzling occurrence with new 2-tuner TiVo. Background: Have owned every TiVo device since 1999. Even switched away from DIRECTV when they dropped TiVo. Just got the 2 tuner OTAEdge from Channel Master. I was going to use as an extra local (non-networked) device to consume my programming in one location with a wired Ethernet connection. After a little playing around I found that the WIFI (no-wired or MOCA) connection not only could see other devices (which I knew) but could play from other devices on the network. The big plus, and maybe its a mistake, was that my Minis could not only play the recordings, but use the tuners for live TV. Right now my Kitchen Mini is using the 2 tuner box as its source.My understanding was that you need a 4-6 tuner box to feed the Minis and use as a source. Is this random? My questions: can all 2 tuner Edge devices be a source for Minis? And, is WIFI acceptable for streaming shows from box to box? I thought otherwise in both cases.
> 
> TiVo 6 tuner Roamio Pro
> TiVo Edge for Antenna 4 tuner
> TiVo Edge for Antenna 2 tuner
> 4 Mini VOX


The advantage for OTA is that you can just use the tuner built in to the TV to watch live TV. Seems like you would want to keep the DVR tuners available to record shows.


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## hapster85

shwru980r said:


> The advantage for OTA is that you can just use the tuner built in to the TV to watch live TV. Seems like you would want to keep the DVR tuners available to record shows.


Sure, but then you give up features like being able to pause and rewind live TV.


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## krkaufman

shwru980r said:


> The advantage for OTA is that you can just use the tuner built in to the TV to watch live TV. Seems like you would want to keep the DVR tuners available to record shows.





hapster85 said:


> Sure, but then you give up features like being able to pause and rewind live TV.


It would also require getting the OTA antenna signal to each Mini location, rather than just to the DVR.


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## shwru980r

krkaufman said:


> It would also require getting the OTA antenna signal to each Mini location, rather than just to the DVR.


The OP stated they had a wired ethernet connection but maybe they didn't have coax, but I assumed they had both.


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## Old Roamio 0

I got one during the Black Friday sale. So far so good. I had to call Tivo to get it on my account.. Typing the label's tivo device number into the Tivo site while I was logged into my account did not work. It was already activated - by Channel Master. Easy. Now, It can see and transfer programs from the Roamio. So as long as my Roamio works ...


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## krkaufman

Old Roamio 0 said:


> Typing the label's tivo device number into the Tivo site while I was logged into my account did not work. It was already activated - by Channel Master.


That's a mild annoyance, and would complicate setup off-hours.


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## Alaskan

Brand new OTA Edge owner here. "Upgraded" (??) from a ChannelMaster DVR+, which was never again going to have program guide data beyond 12 hours as far as we could tell, despite CM's repeated assurances over the past several years that a fix was "on its way." 

I set up the TiVo quickly with no issues, BUT, despite playing around with local zip code alternatives and doing manual re-scans of OTA channels, TiVo insisted in giving me channels with call signs and channel numbers from Fairbanks AK, not Anchorage, where I live. Not only is Fairbanks 350 miles from here but the continent's highest mountain range runs betwen the two locations. So, no, we don't receive OTA channels from Fairbanks, which BTW is only 1/4 the size of Anchorage, AK's largest city.

We've now gone in and laboriously replaced all the non-functional channels with the ones both the DVR+ and Samsung TV are accurately tuning in. I guess TiVo views Alaska as a colony it needn't bother with in terms of correlating zip codes and guide data. My Amazon review will note this attitude!


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## johnbrown44

Alaskan said:


> Brand new OTA Edge owner here. "Upgraded" (??) from a ChannelMaster DVR+, which was never again going to have program guide data beyond 12 hours as far as we could tell, despite CM's repeated assurances over the past several years that a fix was "on its way."


I, too bought an Edge 2 tuner OTA in July for the same reason, to replace the DVR+. I like it. Had never owned a Tivo, but wanted one for years.

Check out the AVS forums. A guy wrote software so DVR+ can get a reliable, enhanced 2 week guide from Schedules Direct. I use that, and am quite happy. Requires a setup, either thru Windows or a Pi (my choice) and the SD guide is $25/year.

PiGS: The Channel Master DVR+ EP Guide Server Replacement


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## Alaskan

Thanks John Brown! I wonder if the guide is accurate for Alaska. We see a lot of glitches with free online channel guides. Had thought of dedicating an old PC to provide the guide data to the DVR+ -- is that what this guy's software does?


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## johnbrown44

Yes. He originally wrote it for a Pi, but others, along with Tim, the author, wanted and got it running on windows. I chose the more reliable Pi, set it and forget it, not to mention only using 3.4 watts. I am not one to leave a full blown PC on 24/7 just for a guide.

If you are comfortable posting your zip code, I can run a test with the pi and Schedules Direct and post the results, or we can do it via PM? Perhaps I will just test a generic Anchorage zip in SD to see what I get.

Or, you could post a query at the forum link I posted, those guys are on top of their game and could troubleshoot any issues you might run into.


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## johnbrown44

Does this look right?


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## tommage1

Got my 2 tuner OTA from Channel Master. The lifetime is active, I guess on Channel Master account. I am not going to switch to my account until I test it for at least a couple weeks in case I want to return. Observations, no pre-roll ads. Maybe because they are turned off for Channel Master. They might show up when switching to buyers account. Also interesting, signal strength on tuners. With Roamios no matter how strong the signal the Roamio would bring it down to 72. The Edge does not do this, I have many signal strengths that show 80 plus, even a couple 90s (around Chicago). The picture seems the same or close to my Bolt and Roamios used as OTA. With Roamio when a signal is brought down to 72 it pretty much stays 72. With Edge signal strength bounces around a bit, 80, 81, 82 etc. Not sure if that is good or bad.


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## Old Roamio 0

I like it. I added my new Edge ota from channelmaster to my account. It has 2 tuners, but picks up the local over-the-air stations better, to me.. (I live in Virginia..) Since the Edge gets less pixelation at my location it is a plus. i.e.: I can look at recorded shows on the Edge from the old Tivo in the house.


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## tommage1

tommage1 said:


> Got my 2 tuner OTA from Channel Master. The lifetime is active, I guess on Channel Master account. I am not going to switch to my account until I test it for at least a couple weeks in case I want to return. Observations, no pre-roll ads. Maybe because they are turned off for Channel Master. They might show up when switching to buyers account. Also interesting, signal strength on tuners. With Roamios no matter how strong the signal the Roamio would bring it down to 72. The Edge does not do this, I have many signal strengths that show 80 plus, even a couple 90s (around Chicago). The picture seems the same or close to my Bolt and Roamios used as OTA. With Roamio when a signal is brought down to 72 it pretty much stays 72. With Edge signal strength bounces around a bit, 80, 81, 82 etc. Not sure if that is good or bad.


Well today I transferred the Edge to my account. Used it for about 26 days with the default Channel Master acct. Went smoothly. I asked them when the warranty started, they said as of activation date. I asked when is that, she said today. So am glad I used it nearly a month before switching to my account (wanted to test during the Channel Master return period), I should now have another 90 days free return/exchange with Tivo. Did not get pre-roll ads while using on Channel Master acct. And so far (a few hours), none while on my acct. So my experience so far pretty good. Since only 500GB drive I will be upgrading one of these days (with external 3.5 most likely) but since I have to punch holes in sticker to open an Edge will wait at least another 90 days (the free exchange period) before punching holes which could void the warranty.


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## tommage1

Here is something else that at least I find interesting. Since I had to call Tivo to transfer the Edge from the Channel Master acct to my acct I decided to also transfer my S2 Pioneer with DVD burner back to my main account. Because I found I can transfer many retail DVDs and Blurays to my S2 believe it or not. Want to see if I can then transfer from the S2 to my other Tivos (some yes, some no, some even though I can transfer the DVD/BRs to the S2 for some the copy protection transfers also so am stuck with them on the S2). Anyway that's a different story.

What I find interesting is I noticed the Edge can see my TE3 Roamios, but cannot see the S2. However the S2 can see the Edge. And I can transfer to the S2 from the Edge (SD shows only of course). Checked my Bolt on TE4, same thing, cannot see the S2 but the S2 can see and transfer from the Bolt. My Roamios on TE3 can see the S2, can transfer either way, S2 to TE3 Roamio, or TE3 Roamio to S2 (SD shows only). So I'm guessing it is TE4 that does not allow the Tivo to "see" the S2. Just interesting to me, another reason for me to stick to TE3 on the majority of my Tivos.


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## krkaufman

tommage1 said:


> What I find interesting is I noticed the Edge can see my TE3 Roamios, but cannot see the S2. However the S2 can see the Edge. And I can transfer to the S2 from the Edge (SD shows only of course). Checked my Bolt on TE4, same thing, cannot see the S2 but the S2 can see and transfer from the Bolt. My Roamios on TE3 can see the S2, can transfer either way, S2 to TE3 Roamio, or TE3 Roamio to S2 (SD shows only). So I'm guessing it is TE4 that does not allow the Tivo to "see" the S2. Just interesting to me, another reason for me to stick to TE3 on the majority of my Tivos.


Yeah, probably because the TE4 interface is only applicable to streaming between boxes, not transfers; they never included MRV/transfers within the TE4 UI. Transfers to TE4, even from other TE4 boxes, have to be initiated via TiVo Online, and I don't believe S2 (or even S3's) are supported.


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## Winter Fox

Alaskan said:


> Brand new OTA Edge owner here. "Upgraded" (??) from a ChannelMaster DVR+, which was never again going to have program guide data beyond 12 hours as far as we could tell, despite CM's repeated assurances over the past several years that a fix was "on its way."
> 
> I set up the TiVo quickly with no issues, BUT, despite playing around with local zip code alternatives and doing manual re-scans of OTA channels, TiVo insisted in giving me channels with call signs and channel numbers from Fairbanks AK, not Anchorage, where I live. Not only is Fairbanks 350 miles from here but the continent's highest mountain range runs betwen the two locations. So, no, we don't receive OTA channels from Fairbanks, which BTW is only 1/4 the size of Anchorage, AK's largest city.
> 
> We've now gone in and laboriously replaced all the non-functional channels with the ones both the DVR+ and Samsung TV are accurately tuning in. I guess TiVo views Alaska as a colony it needn't bother with in terms of correlating zip codes and guide data. My Amazon review will note this attitude!


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## Winter Fox

Oh dear! We just did the same thing! We also live in Anchorage. Had a Channel Master, problem with program guide which messes with recordings - no program listed, no recording is made.
Today I tried to install the Tivo I bought from Channel Master but couldn't get past signing up on Tivo.com. The website kept giving me the message that my Tivo Edge was already registered. Grrr. I will call them tomorrow but now I'm looking forward to the OTA channel problem you have mentioned.


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## tommage1

krkaufman said:


> Yeah, probably because the TE4 interface is only applicable to streaming between boxes, not transfers; they never included MRV/transfers within the TE4 UI. Transfers to TE4, even from other TE4 boxes, have to be initiated via TiVo Online, and I don't believe S2 (or even S3's) are supported.


That is correct. I was wrong, even though the S2 can see the TE4 Edge and Bolt I cannot transfer to the S2, Http error (MRV), something about groups etc. However I can transfer the Bolt/Edge SD recordings to the TE3 Roamios, then transfer to the S2. My experiment will continue, going to copy some DVDs to the S2, then transfer to the TE3 Roamios directly, then try to use Tivo online to transfer from Roamios to Edge/Bolt. If it works could end up with retail DVD/BR recordings on my Bolt/Edge, low res of course since have to connect Bluray/DVD player to composite input on the S2.


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## tommage1

Winter Fox said:


> Oh dear! We just did the same thing! We also live in Anchorage. Had a Channel Master, problem with program guide which messes with recordings - no program listed, no recording is made.
> Today I tried to install the Tivo I bought from Channel Master but couldn't get past signing up on Tivo.com. The website kept giving me the message that my Tivo Edge was already registered. Grrr. I will call them tomorrow but now I'm looking forward to the OTA channel problem you have mentioned.


Yeah, you have to call Tivo to transfer Channel Master purchased Tivos to your account.


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## tommage1

tommage1 said:


> That is correct. I was wrong, even though the S2 can see the TE4 Edge and Bolt I cannot transfer to the S2, Http error (MRV), something about groups etc. However I can transfer the Bolt/Edge SD recordings to the TE3 Roamios, then transfer to the S2. My experiment will continue, going to copy some DVDs to the S2, then transfer to the TE3 Roamios directly, then try to use Tivo online to transfer from Roamios to Edge/Bolt. If it works could end up with retail DVD/BR recordings on my Bolt/Edge, low res of course since have to connect Bluray/DVD player to composite input on the S2.


Just a final update, DVD copy to S2, yes, transfer the copy from S2 to TE3 Roamio direct, yes, transfer from TE3 Roamio to Edge using Tivo Online, no, seems to take it, no errors, but nothing happens, checking history on Tivo online just says "not transferred". End of post here since this is Edge group.


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## krkaufman

tommage1 said:


> low res of course since have to connect Bluray/DVD player to composite input on the S2.


Ah, OK, I was wondering how the copies were originating; the S2 being mentioned as a DVD Recorder threw me.


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## tommage1

krkaufman said:


> Ah, OK, I was wondering how the copies were originating; the S2 being mentioned as a DVD Recorder threw me.


Final final update, I tried the Tivo online transfer from the TE3 Roamio to the Edge again. This time it worked for some reason. Also transferred to TE4 Bolt. Soooo, now have a retail DVD on my Edge (low res but looks pretty good) and my TE4 Bolt. Basically for this process you would need an S2, a Tivo on TE3 and the TE4 device you want it to end up on. Can copy some retail DVDs, some retail Blurays, probably some retail VHS. And any homemade DVD, VHS or camera videos. A fun project, since I have the necessary Tivos.

Oh, and a Bluray or DVD player with composite output you can hookup to the S2 for the initial copy.


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## tommage1

krkaufman said:


> Ah, OK, I was wondering how the copies were originating; the S2 being mentioned as a DVD Recorder threw me.


You can do this with any S2. But the ones with DVD recorders have a nice built in process. You pick the input, composite or SVHS. Set the recording time. Set the recording resolution for the Tivo. Can NAME the recording which is very nice. And has a 15 second countdown timer, when it gets to 0/1 sec hit play on the DVD/Bluray player. Or VCR, or camera. The DVD recorder on the Tivo is not part of the process.


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## krkaufman

tommage1 said:


> You can do this with any S2. But the ones with DVD recorders have a nice built in process. You pick the input, composite or SVHS. Set the recording time. Set the recording resolution for the Tivo. Can NAME the recording which is very nice. And has a 15 second countdown timer, when it gets to 0/1 sec hit play on the DVD/Bluray player. Or VCR, or camera. The DVD recorder on the Tivo is not part of the process.


I used a similar process with our ReplayTVs to digitize the family's older home videos. A video capture card on a PC would have worked, as well, but the ReplayTVs were already available ... though one regret is not having a VHS player w/ S-Video output to get the best possible video quality transfer. (RTV had Component Output, but not Input)


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## tommage1

krkaufman said:


> I used a similar process with our ReplayTVs to digitize the family's older home videos. A video capture card on a PC would have worked, as well, but the ReplayTVs were already available ... though one regret is not having a VHS player w/ S-Video output to get the best possible video quality transfer. (RTV had Component Output, but not Input)


Yeah, the Pioneer S2 has component out with optical for audio but input only composite or SVHS. I just tested with composite, not sure if my Bluray or DVD players have SVHS output, some might. It's kinda fun to get these copies all the way to a TE4 device


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## shwru980r

tommage1 said:


> Yeah, the Pioneer S2 has component out with optical for audio but input only composite or SVHS. I just tested with composite, not sure if my Bluray or DVD players have SVHS output, some might. It's kinda fun to get these copies all the way to a TE4 device


If any of the movies have digital codes, you might be able to register the movie on VUDU for free and watch it that way. I've got a few movies that I can watch that way.


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## tommage1

shwru980r said:


> If any of the movies have digital codes, you might be able to register the movie on VUDU for free and watch it that way. I've got a few movies that I can watch that way.


Yeah, I have some movies I did that with. My project is just for fun really, starting with the S2, able to copy some DVD and Blurays onto the S2, then transfer to TE3 device direct, then Tivo Online from TE3 to TE4 device. Wanted to see if it could be done, it can, not all DVDs or Blurays work (and some copy with the copy protection intact so stuck on the S2) but some DO work, fun seeing a retail DVD on my Edge


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