# OTA Only? Anybody?



## sloan (Feb 13, 2003)

I guess this is kind of a poll.

I just got a TivoHD (with lifetime)...and I was "transferring" Season passes to this unit. (I'm getting ready for when my HR10-250 might be obsolete because of the mpeg4/mpeg2 thing).

Anyways...

So I'm transferring my season passes. And I end up being unable to transfer only 2 items.

MNF (ESPN-HD)
Morning (manual) recordings of SportsCenter (ESPH-HD).

So I get to thinking? Am I paying almost $100/month to watch MNF?
(I could live with SportsCenter in SD, but I do like MNF in HD).
Youch.

Naturally, there are non season pass things I watch. College Football on Saturday's is the biggest. Of course, there are alot of games on ESPN-HD and ESPN2-HD.

So I guess I'm asking if anyone is OTA only (with some kind of HD DVR) or has considered OTA only.

I mean, I watch a chunk of stuff on network tv/ota.
Between my wife and I, we're recording:
Heroes
How I Met Your Mother
Smallville
ER
The Office
Earl
Supernatural
SNL
Jeopardy in HD
Local News in HD (WRAL!)
NFL on Fox
NFL on CBS
NFL on NBC
Simpsons (non HD show)
and coming around again sometime:
Lost
24

We're also pretty lucky in that.. in Raleigh, most stations are broadcasting from the same antenna "farm" (3 towers) on the southeast side of the city, so 1 directional antenna does alot for you.
I mean, seldom do I ever get anything but a perfect picture. In high winds and rain, maybe some fluctuation.

So I'm asking myself again...How many non OTA shows am I watching?
And how much am I paying for MNF?

Ok....


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## jtrain (Jan 17, 2006)

I have extended basic cable (comcastic) and OTA antenna.

Most all of my shows are Network (Heroes, Pushing Daisies, Amazing Race, 'til Death, Survivor, the Office, Desperate Housewives)...the only season pass I have for a non-network show is "The Hills" on MTV - for wifey. 

It works very well and rarely ever do I get any pixelization (Beaverton, Oregon - west of Portland - 5 miles from towers). I use a Series 3 TiVo and have zero complaints...

Shortly, Verizon will be rolling out their TV service to our area, and I'm contemplating switching, but only if they carry the Regional Sports Networks for our area (Fox Sports NW and Comcast Sports Net NW)...as of right now their channel lineup doesn't include those channels, but it may by the time the rollout begins...(Jan. 6th, 2008).


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## self (Jul 10, 2002)

For HD, I'm OTA only. With a Series 3 and a TiVo HD.

I'm contemplating finding out what the cheapest HD package I can get from Comcast (in San Jose) is.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

My S3 has been recording only from antenna and only HD since I took it out of the box.

Upgraded the hard drive before I even turned it on, 65 HD hours, and it is currently full to the extent I have to either watch or delete something before it's time to record tonight, or it will delete something on it's own that I might have really wanted to watch.


phox


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## moxie1617 (Jan 5, 2004)

Use S3 with 500GB e-sata for OTA HD only. Keep a S1 DirecTivo(105hrs) w/lifetime for SD channels.


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## minckster (Aug 31, 2006)

I canceled cable after buying a $20 antenna while waiting for my CableCARDs. After transferring whatever Season Passes I could, there was almost nothing left from cable on my old Series2, so I canceled cable and don't miss it at all. If Time-Warner hadn't been such enormous jerks about the cards, I'd have never bought the antenna or considered canceling.

One caveat: there's not much sports OTA. NFL and Nascar are the most prevalent.


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## thespacepope72 (Jan 25, 2005)

I am OTA only in Phoenix,AZ and prior to that I did OTA only for 6 months in Ann Arbor, MI. I generally only TiVo shows from OTA digital stations since the analog stuff is snowy. I enjoy telling people that I don't have cable or satellite and seeing/hearing them react as if I just announced that my only link to the outside world is AM radio.

I would respectfully disagree regarding the prevalence of OTA sports. Here in PHX, I can see about 5 college football games, and 3-5 NFL games per weekend. I also can get quite a few Suns games. There is also Golf, Rodeo, NASCAR, and a variety of niche sports.

I would have real difficulty living somewhere if it required paying for satellite or cable.


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## minckster (Aug 31, 2006)

Re: Sports. I guess that I should have stated my experience more carefully. I wouldn't notice golf, basketball, or college football. There's almost no hockey OTA in NYC and maybe one or two baseball games a week. I think that I may be utterly alone in NYC in appreciating NBC's coverage of bull riding, although I wish they'd add the PRCA. I suppose things vary considerably by market. The Yankees, Knicks, and (???) have their own cable channel, not leaving much for OTA.

In any event, sports and 24-hour news are about the only reasons I'd recommend keeping cable -- that and access to the premium channels. May I add: Netflix!


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## Luke M (Nov 5, 2002)

Most of the stations here are broadcasting 3 streams - one HD, two SD. Is that typical? The SD streams aren't too interesting - mostly weather and news.


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## fred22 (Nov 11, 2007)

I've never had cable and as posted above, folks appear shocked when I tell them that. But I'm also fortunate that I live in the right location in the Seattle area where hills (and trees) can play havoc with OTA.

I have had the S3 since May and added 750gigs via esata almost as soon as I saw it mentioned. I only realized a short time before May as I researched hdtv that HD was available via antenna. 

Somehow in my mind (and I suspect a lot of the general public) HD digital IS CABLE. Now I've learned that not only is cable not the only source of hd digital tv but that cable may compress signals and that OTA is actually better (if you can receive).

So while some folks do contemplate whether LIFETIME investments in Tivo are worth it, since I'm OTA, I'm hoping that tivo will last a long time and that I will not be affected by that switched digital stuff.


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## TheGreenHornet (Nov 1, 2007)

First off I am excited because tomorrow UPS will be dropping off my Series 3. I am upgrading my trusty Series 2 of 4 years with lifetime.  Yes, I am going for the lifetime on the S3 and rehook up my series 2 to my Sony SD TV. I am taking the day off for the arrival of the blessed event. 

It was my series 2 Tivo that help me realize that I could cut my comcast cable to simple basic when I bought my new HDTV. All my season passes were network shows. So why was I putting up constant Comcast price increases - miseable service and compressed ugly signal? Last December I cut the cable back to basic. I survived the past 11 months. 

I did my research on AntennaWeb.com and picked the Terk 55 antenna sold at Crutchfield or Amazon. The antenna may be big for my town house but it sucks in the signals from the Philly towers about 10 miles away. I get a signal strength from 85% (CBS) to 97% (ABC) on all the networks from the Terk 55 on a window sill. The window of my town house faces away from the towers. I am also fortunate that the digital channels in Philly originate on a UHF frequency for the antenna to pick up the signal. 

My suggestion is that if you are thinking about going to OTA -I recommend you do your research. Buy an antenna where the return policy is somewhat liberal if your antenna test does not give you the results that you want. 

People do not believe me until I show them the level of quality signal I get OTA! I am also amazed sometimes when I watch a vivid show like Survivor that I am not paying for this quality of a picture. In fact, I do not follow sports in spite of how sports intense Philadelphians are by nature. Although I do not understand what is going on - I find my self now watching Eagles football OTA just in sheer amazment of the picture quality over the air for free on my new HDTV TV.


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## sloan (Feb 13, 2003)

TheGreenHornet said:


> People do not believe me until I show them the level of quality signal I get OTA!.


I hear ya on that one. I try and try to explain that you get crystal clear perfect for free, and that OTA (when its working correctly) is uncompressed and rocks the suburbs.

Well, now that I have my TivoHD only connected via OTA, they'll have to believe me when I show it to them.

The biggest thing I learned with my antenna setup is that antennas are an art, not a science. I tried about 5 different setups..(buying and returning antennas) and ended up with a Radio Shack $25 model. ( an outside UHF model ). And I tried the chimney, the roof, a pole, a bunch of different places, and the sweet spot ended up being in my attic. Even that took about 4 different location tests, and finally found one great spot.

But man was I happy when I found the spot that got all the channels without huge fluctuations.


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## ToddNeedsTiVo (Sep 2, 2003)

We have expanded analog cable and a TiVo HD without CableCARDS. Our primary source of HD is OTA only. Most of these HD OTAs are also available in clear QAM on the cable, but as widely discussed here, TiVo does not provide a means to map these clear QAM channels to their guide data without CableCARDs. They'd only be usable in a manual VCR-like recording.

I also feel lucky that the digital transmissions I'm interested in all originate at the same azimuth about ten miles away. My modest antenna on the mantel suffices nicely.

It's strange how we've spent 20-30 years chopping our antennas down only to see them coming back again as the DTV age arrives: no availability of local HD feeds on satellite, more pristine/less compressed signal than cable/satellite, unable to fully use QAM channels on TiVo without upgrading to a more expensive cable plan, etc.


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## Runch Machine (Feb 7, 2002)

Likewise, my Tivo Series 3 records all the shows I want from the TV antenna in my attic. I have the Channel Master 4228 which does a great job on UHF and the upper VHF Band. All of our digital channels are in the UHF band for now but after the analog turn off one will move back to channel 9 and the other to channel 11. Since the antenna is in my attic it should be good for many decades as it is not exposed to the weather. 

With the money I am saving on cable I could buy a really nice new, big HDTV every two years.


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## snathanb (Sep 13, 2006)

I cut the cable/Sat cord about 5 years ago, as the stations in Dallas started turning up HD.


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## TheGreenHornet (Nov 1, 2007)

Comcast is based in Philadelphia so every thing that happens relating to Comcast is in the business section of the newspaper. Recently, Comcast was *****ing that it lost over a few hundred thousand video customers to competition such as Fios entering the market. Of the other reasons sited was NOT people migrating to the OTA free digital signal. 

I think people associate their experiences with an analog signal of the past with the current OTA digital signal. People think I am being cheap because I am using OTA and do not have any programming available to me. Hell, when I was a kid we had three major networks, one "educational channel" and three independent UHF channels.

Now that I am OTA with basic cable back up - I have found that I have plenty of shows to watch. I think the major networks all offer great programming such as Heroes and the CSIs. That is why I am upgrading to the Series 3 for HD OTA for more space on the hard drive because of the shows I have on Season Pass. If I miss something running on cable such as NipTuck running on FX I will catch it on DVD from Netflix. I am now watching the last season of Sorpranos on DVD. 

The money I saved in the past 11 months on cutting the cable back simply justifies my purchase of the Series 3 w/ lifetime as a Christmas present to myself. I keep saying OTA is the way!


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## turbovr6 (Sep 1, 2004)

Never had cable. I have FIOS internet but TV alone would cost nearly $100 a month for the few tv shows I like. That is $1200 a year!!! I buy a season pass to about 6 cable shows for about $30 each (Avatar Rules!) That is a $1000 savings this year only. I am not an avid sports fan though. That being said I have a Tivo HD with a 1TB Hitachi drive and a S2 with a 300gb Seagate. There are evenings where I am recording 3 shows at once! I record Comedies on the Series 2 and the rest in HD. I do all of my TV watching in the summer when the kids have no homework...


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## visionary (May 31, 2006)

I use my S3 for OTA only with a good outside antenna, fortunately all stations here are in same direction so it works great. I read the threads about all the issues with cable and it is clearly due to too many signals all interfering with each other, harmonics and so on. Until they go to fiber only, I stay away from cable, since I was a radio engineer and know why it won't get better till then. I use an S1 for SD programs from Dish network for things like TLC, Discovery, NGC, which I can get along fine without HD. But the S3 is worth every penny just for OTA use. Excellent tuner in it too.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

TheGreenHornet said:


> People do not believe me until I show them the level of quality signal I get OTA!


I was in that boat not too long ago, and oddly enough, it was DirecTV that showed me how well OTA worked.  

I had been a DirecTV subscriber for several years. When I upgraded to their HD service, since they didn't provide my locals in HD via satellite yet, they had to install an OTA.

Once it sunk in that 99% of the shows I recorded were coming from the OTA (and not the satellite dish that I was paying $70/month for), it was a pretty easy decision to cancel D* and just run with OTA.

There are three shows I can't get OTA -- Battlestar Galactica, Stargate Atlantis, and Property Ladder. Amazon's Unbox works perfectly for the first two, and I'm not dying without Kirsten Kemp like I thought I might. 

Quick question for the people with OTA + standard cable: is it correct that you can only record one OTA show at a time with this configuration?


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## ToddNeedsTiVo (Sep 2, 2003)

aristoBrat said:


> Quick question for the people with OTA + standard cable: is it correct that you can only record one OTA show at a time with this configuration?


I use analog cable, OTA, and no CableCARDS with my TiVo HD. It can record two things simultaneously just fine from OTA, cable, or one of each.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

aristoBrat said:


> Quick question for the people with OTA + standard cable: is it correct that you can only record one OTA show at a time with this configuration?


No, you can record two OTA.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Not to mention have you seen how much TV programming is available over the internet that you can TTCB to your tivo box? Won't work for live sports but for series and prerecorded shows, I have been quite surprised at how much is available.


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## DrWho453 (Jul 16, 2005)

Yea, I am in Raleigh too and I have both an antenna and cable connected to the tivo. I am debating whether or not I will keep the cable. I do like watching Discovery HD and sometimes TNT HD. But most of my stuff comes from network HD channels (Heros, smallville, Bones, etc) and of course the scifi channel (Stargate Atlantis, Flash Gordon, Doctor Who). So I may think about going back to extended cable. I remember after getting the tivo series 3 that I had an old indoor power antenna which I tried hooking up to tivo and I was surprised by the quality of the video coming in. WRAl wasn't a big surprise but I was surprised by the quality of the other stations. I knew that ota hd quality was good but its still amazing to me to see the difference between the analog video coming in and the digital quality. My antenna sits right behind the TV for now and it has no problem picking up any of the major networks, CW or RDC stations. Sometimes the weather condition may cause some pixelation issues with the video but the majority of the time, the video is clear.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

ToddNeedsTiVo said:


> I use analog cable, OTA, and no CableCARDS with my TiVo HD. It can record two things simultaneously just fine from OTA, cable, or one of each.





CrispyCritter said:


> No, you can record two OTA.


Thanks guys!


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

OTA and only basic analog cable here. Works like a charm.


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## hunts (Oct 5, 2006)

How does the Tivo guide work with OTA only? Does it actaully show the correct shows or is it unlisted programming?


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## ToddNeedsTiVo (Sep 2, 2003)

hunts said:


> How does the Tivo guide work with OTA only? Does it actaully show the correct shows or is it unlisted programming?


I'm not sure what you mean by unlisted programming.

My run through Guided Setup gave me my local central Iowa OTAs by FCC call sign, but it also gave me OTA stations in eastern and western Iowa. I don't think I could tune those with a 50 ft. mast! Nor would I want to, anyway, as I suppose it would be mostly redundant programming.

So, I had to deselect a large number of OTA stations in my "channels I receive" menu to get it down to an accurate list of what is really available to me. After that, it has been fine. I've had normal guide data for these OTA stations just like you should expect.


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## okleydokley (May 15, 2002)

I dropped my driect TV tivo for my series 3 (OTA only) and am saving about $80 per month.
I miss some sports (monday night football, some baseball games, some football) but there is so much on TV these days that I always have more then enough to fill up my 1TB drive.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

ToddNeedsTiVo said:


> My run through Guided Setup gave me my local central Iowa OTAs by FCC call sign, but it also gave me OTA stations in eastern and western Iowa. I don't think I could tune those with a 50 ft. mast! Nor would I want to, anyway, as I suppose it would be mostly redundant programming.
> 
> So, I had to deselect a large number of OTA stations in my "channels I receive" menu to get it down to an accurate list of what is really available to me. After that, it has been fine. I've had normal guide data for these OTA stations just like you should expect.


I had the same problem.
TiVo thinks I can get stations in Colorado, Idaho and Wyoming, all over 500 miles away.
I had to deselect a lot of them to only see the ones I can actually get.

Online scheduling is another story, I have to be really careful when choosing the station to record from,
lest it try to record a Grand Junction channel or an Idaho Falls channel.

I get nice accurate guide data for the ones I do record from.

phox


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

First of all, I have zero interest in sports programming. I know this puts me in the minority. Given that, I am OTA only. All HD recording I do is OTA locals. It saves me $80/mo from content providers for content that I do not watch anyway. I figure by only paying my Tivo sub fee, I basically get payback of the Tivo HW in 6-7 months.


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## xfm (Apr 1, 2005)

OP:

I have had D* for 10 years, with 3 SD-DTiVos (30hr, 70hr, 140hr) and an HR10-250. In anticipation of switching to FIOS, got an S3 that I've been operating OTA-only and it has been great. All guides and programming operate flawlessly, and recently added eSATA with WD 1TB Green drive and MX-1 enclosure. All is good with the world. Record cable stuff on my D*TiVo's and most OTA on the S3, which will hold 165 hours.

FIOS is now available and I will angle for good deal. They're offering either a free 19" Sharp HDTV or a $200 BB gift card. I'll take the card, use it to buy a TiVoHD ($299), and use FIOS with Cable Cards to get my programming. My D-TiVo's will be available if anyone's interested (LOL).


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## Jerry_K (Feb 7, 2002)

I am OTA only and get Baltimore Maryland, and Washington DC stations using two inexpensive Rat Shack yagi anntenae. I combine them with a simple splitter used backwards and distribute to my two Series 3 Tivos and the TV with a Rat Shack distribution amp. About $100 for the whole setup. 

No cable cards, no fees, no problems, and now with eSATA expansion and MRV I am one happy camper.


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## sloan (Feb 13, 2003)

I use the term "new" loosely, our 50.2 has been broadcasting for a while.

This is our FOX station, but they decided to do something cool with it, and throw some retro tv on it.

http://www.myfoxraleigh.com/myfox/p...n=5&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=5.2.1

Here's a list:


> Streets of San Francisco
> Hardy Boys/Nancy Drew
> Buck Rogers
> Lifestyles of the Rich & Famous
> ...


That's a pretty good use of the secondary feed, IMHO.

Anybody else got a cool secondary feed?


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## snathanb (Sep 13, 2006)

sloan said:


> That's a pretty good use of the secondary feed, IMHO.
> 
> Anybody else got a cool secondary feed?


We used to get "The Tube", which was a really good music video channel, but they ceased operations Oct. 1.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

sloan said:


> That's a pretty good use of the secondary feed, IMHO.
> 
> Anybody else got a cool secondary feed?


Pittsburgh's NBC affiliate also has a retro secondary feed WPXI RTN with a similar lineup (just started last month).

Of course, they all have their bandwidth hogging, useless weather channels also.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

hunts said:


> How does the Tivo guide work with OTA only? Does it actaully show the correct shows or is it unlisted programming?


It's the exact same type of listing you get with cable channels.


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## sloan (Feb 13, 2003)

> How does the Tivo guide work with OTA only? Does it actaully show the correct shows or is it unlisted programming?


Yeah, ditto comment for me.

It is the same thing, with all the info, just as if it were cable.

And with the "Search By HD" option, you can find the HD shows really quickly.
Its especially good for PBS stuff where they have HD shows, but aren't under a season-pass format. (Aka, one-timer shows).

One local station here is broadcasting the original Star Trek series, and it is as sharp as I've ever seen it. It isn't HD, but the SD is really sharp over OTA.
They also advertising that its been "updated" a little, things like the phaser's firing from the ship look sharper.
But the Star Trek comes on 2 times on the weekend, in the enhanced version.

I had forgotten that Star Trek only ran for 3 years originally.

But yeah, the OTA guide and searching is just as flawless as any thing else.


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## zoma4 (Jul 20, 2004)

I have OTA only. DirecTV non-HD box that I rarely use, and OTA on the TivoHD. I live in Jersey City right on the Hudson River with a great line of sight to midtown Manhattan where I pick up OTA's without issue using an indoor antenna.


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## mvnuenen (Jun 1, 2007)

Reading this thread makes me want to dump cable as well. I checked antennaweb and I am 26 miles away from the Raleigh towers (all within 130-132 degrees).

Is there any concensus on the antenna to use? I would prefer attic setup but understand that outdoor reception is better. Any recommendations on which antennas to evaluate?


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## sloan (Feb 13, 2003)

Go get the Radio Shack $30 UHF directional one to start with.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/i...ectional&kw=uhf+directional&parentPage=search
If it doesn't work, you can take it back (if you don't damage it of course).

WRAL used to run a "get a free antenna" program, if you could prove you had a HD device. I do NOT know if they still run that program or not.
But here is the link:
http://www.wral.com/wral-tv/story/1180307/

But basically the free (ChannelMaster) antenna you'd get thru this program was the equivalent of the RadioShack $30 model.

Go over to:
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=147473
because there you can get Raleigh (Durham) specific advice, since this is more of a OTA setup issue, rather than a Tivo question.


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## sloan (Feb 13, 2003)

> Is there any concensus on the antenna to use?


There will seldom or never be a consensus on a "best antenna".

Antenna pointing is an art, not a science. What I mean is that sometimes it takes experimentation, and sometimes just a little luck.

It took about 3 weeks of experimenting to find my home's "sweet spot", which was actually in the attic.

Trees, terrain, airports (RDU), can all affect you. But odds are, at 25 miles you're a good distance to get the Garner Tower stations (everything except PBS) with a good directional antenna.

Check avsforums (as I've already said) because there you can get specific advise to the RDU area.


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## mvnuenen (Jun 1, 2007)

Thanks! :up:


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

mvnuenen said:


> Reading this thread makes me want to dump cable as well. I checked antennaweb and I am 26 miles away from the Raleigh towers (all within 130-132 degrees).
> 
> Is there any concensus on the antenna to use? I would prefer attic setup but understand that outdoor reception is better. Any recommendations on which antennas to evaluate?


Channel Master CM 4221 would be ideal for that distance as long as they're all UHF. Just as cheap as the Radio Shack and much better. It's not quite as directional as the RatShack Yagi, so it's a little more forgiving. You can get it here.


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## fred22 (Nov 11, 2007)

When I first got my HDTV (and prior to tivo) I just hooked up the old rabbit ears, approximately $15.00 antenna I had used on my standard definition (normal?) tv. It worked fine. Since I wanted to try getting a few oddball stations I went with another antenna - so while the new antenna did grab me one or two stations additional stations, it did not improve the ones I was already getting with the rabbit ears.

OTA rocks! (if you can get it)


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## TheGreenHornet (Nov 1, 2007)

mvnuenen said:


> Reading this thread makes me want to dump cable as well. I checked antennaweb and I am 26 miles away from the Raleigh towers (all within 130-132 degrees).
> 
> Is there any concensus on the antenna to use? I would prefer attic setup but understand that outdoor reception is better. Any recommendations on which antennas to evaluate?


I just purchased an S3 and love it. I bought it with the savings (with rebate) from cutting the cable back to basic for backup with a new Terk 55 antenna:

http://www.amazon.com/Terk-Technolo...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1195525621&sr=8-1

It is currently recording Dancin With the Stars and Heroes at the same time. I am AMAZED at the signal I get OTA on these bright colorful shows. In fact, my series three seems to display a stronger OTA signal off the tuner than the TV tuner. All the big three networks are at least 98 to 100. Plus, I have stated before on the boards - my antenna sits on a window sill in the opposite direction away from the line of site of the Philly towers. I live in a townhouse and an antenna is a no no outside the house.

Before you cut the cord - do your research at antennaweb.com. There are lots of helpful information in getting the correct antenna.


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## TheGreenHornet (Nov 1, 2007)

sloan said:


> I use the term "new" loosely, our 50.2 has been broadcasting for a while.
> 
> This is our FOX station, but they decided to do something cool with it, and throw some retro tv on it.
> 
> ...


I was sorry to see The Tube go. It was a sub channel of the MyNetwork Philly affilate (WPHL). The Retro channel would be a great pickup for that channel.

Here is a listing of stations running RTN:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Retro_Television_Network_affiliates

They run a lot of classics from the CBS network and they customize the feed for each station so they do not cause conflicts with other stations in the market running the same show.

If RTN were available in Philly-my season pass would triple. The Untouchables, Rawhide and Hogan's Heroes would be the first three that would get a season pass.


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## volksman (Nov 20, 2007)

Has anyone compared the OTA sensitivity of TIVO Series 3 to DISH621 or Direct HR20. I now have the Dish 621 and am thinking about going with TIVO. I live about 60 miles from my stations and pick them up with the DISH OTA receiver. The signal is marginal and I would at least need a receiver that is as sensitive as the DISH 921.


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

I am OTA only on my Tivo and I have a hard time keeping up with it. I also subscribe to HBO and Showtime ala carte on Dish Network.

I have not subscribed to a basic cable type package in about 6 years and have not missed it. If something on cable is any good it ends up on dvd where I can rent it ,watch it with good picture quality and without commercials. With the decline of good original programing on HBO I've considered dropping it too.



aristoBrat said:


> There are three shows I can't get OTA -- Battlestar Galactica, Stargate Atlantis, and Property Ladder.


Are you sure about Stargate? Both Stargates are in syndication about a year behind the Sci-Fi channel. SG-1 has been in syndication going back to when it was still airing on Showtime.



volksman said:


> Has anyone compared the OTA sensitivity of TIVO Series 3 to DISH621 or Direct HR20. I now have the Dish 621 and am thinking about going with TIVO. I live about 60 miles from my stations and pick them up with the DISH OTA receiver. The signal is marginal and I would at least need a receiver that is as sensitive as the DISH 921.


The 622 and the THD seem to be about the same to me, both can pick up a low power TBN station that some tuners have trouble with.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

kb7oeb said:


> Are you sure about Stargate? Both Stargates are in syndication about a year behind the Sci-Fi channel. SG-1 has been in syndication going back to when it was still airing on Showtime.


Sorry, I meant the current season.


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## cokyq (Jan 21, 2007)

I stopped my cable service 3 months ago after loosing my job. Though I miss Discovery HD and a few other science channels, I am very satisfied with the quality signal I get from over the air signals. 

And my Tivo S3 works great with OTA signals. Now I just need to find work so I can get me an external drive!


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## Lenarro (Mar 4, 2005)

I wish I was close enough to the antenna farm to get OTA. The size of antenna I need and had in the Directv days doesn't bode well with hurricanes and scares me during summer thunderstorms. I also find myself watching a lot of the nerdy HD shows on discoveryHD, ScienceHD, etc. (Flashbacks to the days of three channels and no remote control.)


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## volksman (Nov 20, 2007)

cokyq said:


> I stopped my cable service 3 months ago after loosing my job. Though I miss Discovery HD and a few other science channels, I am very satisfied with the quality signal I get from over the air signals.
> 
> And my Tivo S3 works great with OTA signals. Now I just need to find work so I can get me an external drive!


What are your approximate distances from your OTA stations? Also do you live in level terrain or mountains?


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## remshard (May 31, 2007)

I took the plunge. Dropped my $75 per month cable subscription this weekend. An analysis of my cable usage, after reading this thread, showed I only occassionally watched ESPN and wife watched ABC Family. Well, ABC Family broadcasts recent shows on its website. Therefore, it came down to $75 per month for ESPN - just not worth it. I've had an OTA antenna all along and used it for most HD Broadcasts because picture quality somehow seemed better. Thanks forum for the discussion on this topic.


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## ucliker (Sep 25, 2007)

I love OTA, I have an attic mounted antenna that i received free from a member at AVSforum this is of course hooked up to my TivoHD. I receive every station in digital where i live (fox, cbs, nbc, abc, cw, mnt, pbs)


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## riley2007 (Nov 27, 2007)

I only use OTA and the only major station not digital/HD is FOX. I am a new tivo user but am very impressed with the Tivo HD. I know how some of the people here feel when they tell people that they only use rabbit ears. I know I have been laughed at many times. In fact when I bought my hdtv the sales guy asked if I had sat. or cable. When I told him rabbit ears he told me I would not be using my tv to the fullest. The funny thing is neither Dish or Direct tv carry our locals in HD I would have to install an.....antenna  and I am sure not going with sudden_stink_


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## videojanitor (Dec 21, 2001)

I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I subscribe to DirecTV and own a HR10-250 HD TiVo, as well as their HR20 HD DVR. However, I just plunked down the cash for a Series 3 that I intend to use solely for OTA recording, since that is where I do a good 75% of my viewing. 

Now yes, I can (and do) use the HR10 for that, but I also wanted the other cool features (like TiVoToGo) that are just not available on the DirecTV model. At the same time, the HR20 does OTA, but I can't stand the way it scans (in particular, trying to jump to a tick mark is a major ordeal!), and if I try to look at something near the end of the program, I am presented with a "Delete/Don't Delete" dialog that you can't get past. In a word, it is maddening!

So, with the great deals being offered right now on the S3, I bit the bullet, and I am as happy as a pig in slop. I'll keep DirecTV, but for OTA recording, the S3 is my savior.


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## mvnuenen (Jun 1, 2007)

Primarily directed at Sloan:
I followed your advice and had my S3 hooked up OTA only. I didn't bother too much with finding the optimal spot for the antenna and still all OTA channels came in crystal clear (including PBS/UNC). Unfortunately, after a few days *trial* OTA I did miss certain channels, and I am back to TW cable (sigh). Nevertheless, it really amazed me and if $$ is ever going to be an issue (or SDV), I know what an excellent alternative is available. Tx again.


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

Im getting 80% single strength with the db2 antenna without a amp. The db2 is a outdoor antenna but im using it in doors. Its tie wrap to the back of my futon. 

I tooked all the local channels off cable cards and put them on the antenna


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## gonefishin (Dec 29, 2007)

Put me down as another OTA only owner. I used to pay $135 for cable and their high speed internet. I now get a better picture and pay only $24.00 for the DSL dry loop (no phone line). 

Sure there are some channels that I will miss and the internet isn't quite as fast. But I was paying 135.00 for basically a bunch of channels I didn't use. 

What a happy day to be free of cable or dish! 


dan


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## sloan (Feb 13, 2003)

mvnuenen said:


> Primarily directed at Sloan:
> I followed your advice and had my S3 hooked up OTA only. I didn't bother too much with finding the optimal spot for the antenna and still all OTA channels came in crystal clear (including PBS/UNC). Unfortunately, after a few days *trial* OTA I did miss certain channels, and I am back to TW cable (sigh). Nevertheless, it really amazed me and if $$ is ever going to be an issue (or SDV), I know what an excellent alternative is available. Tx again.


If you miss a channel, than that's cool.

If you miss 1-3 ~shows~, don't forget that you can download episodes of shows via the Tivo/Amazon/Unbox thing.

Its usually a $1.99 per episode...but if you only miss having 1-2 shows....you can pay $40-$60/year vs a monthly bill.

Just something for you (and everyone else) to consider.

.........

I'm getting ready to move to the western side of Wake....I hope my OTA is smooth and clear when I get out there.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

mvnuenen said:


> Primarily directed at Sloan:
> I followed your advice and had my S3 hooked up OTA only. I didn't bother too much with finding the optimal spot for the antenna and still all OTA channels came in crystal clear (including PBS/UNC). Unfortunately, after a few days *trial* OTA I did miss certain channels, and I am back to TW cable (sigh). Nevertheless, it really amazed me and if $$ is ever going to be an issue (or SDV), I know what an excellent alternative is available. Tx again.


You can always keep the OTA channels and un-check them from your cable lineup and use cable + ota. This way if your cable goes out, you could still record from the OTA channels.


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

I didn't see anyone mention the quality of audio you are getting OTA vs. cable. The furthest transmitter tower I need to be concerned with is only 13 miles so Saturday I dropped by Radio Shack and bought their cheapest set of rabbit ears with a UHF loop ($13). I judge the picture to be as good as if not slightly better than cable but the big thing I found is the superior audio quality of OTA. Definately a fuller range and better separation from my 5.1 system.


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

janry said:


> I didn't see anyone mention the quality of audio you are getting OTA vs. cable. The furthest transmitter tower I need to be concerned with is only 13 miles so Saturday I dropped by Radio Shack and bought their cheapest set of rabbit ears with a UHF loop ($13). I judge the picture to be as good as if not slightly better than cable but the big thing I found is the superior audio quality of OTA. Definately a fuller range and better separation from my 5.1 system.


The sound and picture is better. But dont know how i could prove that.

I know alot of people who wont have a antenna in or on there house. Back in the 70s almost everyone had a antenna on there house.


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## derspiess (Jul 10, 2007)

I got my TivoHD last week & currently run it OTA + analog cable (that will hopefully change tomorrow after the cable guy installs an m-card). 

At any rate, OTA HD via my Tivo looks a much better than HD thru the cable company's HD-DVR. I *think* OTA HD also looks better than QAM thru the Tivo, but I'm a little less certain.

It definitely seems, at the very least, that the Tivo tuners do a better job than the tuners/hardware of the cable HD-DVR.

Even if they were the same, having the Tivo interface on my main TV = schweet


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## dalesd (Aug 2, 2001)

I <3 this thread.

I got a new HDTV and a THD to go with it. The THD gets all it's programming OTA (and from Miro through pyTivo). I use an Antenna Direct DB-2 in the attic. I'm ~12 miles from Boston and get all those stations perfectly. 95+ signal quality. It worked just fine with a little Terk in the living room, but alignment had to be just so, and it was a little ugly, so I got the DB-2 and mounted it permanently. I'd probably get all the Providence stations (~20 miles) if I mounted it facing south.

We have two SD DirecTiVos (his & hers) still kicking around. I'd love to get rid of them. I have hardly touched mine since getting the THD set up. DW isn't convinced. I'd push harder, but she does cook me some fantastic stuff she sees on the Food Network. So they'll stay until FIOS comes, which should be "soon".

No Boston Bruins hockey OTA. I'm looking forward to some Formula One in HD OTA this summer.


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

dalesd said:


> I <3 this thread.
> 
> I got a new HDTV and a THD to go with it. The THD gets all it's programming OTA (and from Miro through pyTivo). I use an Antenna Direct DB-2 in the attic. I'm ~12 miles from Boston and get all those stations perfectly. 95+ signal quality. It worked just fine with a little Terk in the living room, but alignment had to be just so, and it was a little ugly, so I got the DB-2 and mounted it permanently. I'd probably get all the Providence stations (~20 miles) if I mounted it facing south.
> 
> ...


I like my db2 i just got it. wished i had room in my condo for a db4 or db8. My brother is going to get a db4 and hide it in his closet. The only time i have problems is when its windy. Wish there was some way to ground it indoors


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## scsiguy72 (Nov 25, 2003)

I live 40+ miles from the towers and I got a Radio Shack UHF/VHF $29 antenna and a 5 foot mast. Strapped it on my chimney pointed it in the general direction for the towers and I got all the networks, 2 PBS stations and about 4 (English) independent stations. I have my Tivo HD hooked up and I am saving $70 a month and have said goodbye to D* TV forever.

I am just trying to figure out how Cable/Satellite will figure out a way to screw us up in the future and charge us for Free TV


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## dalesd (Aug 2, 2001)

tootal2 said:


> I like my db2 i just got it. wished i had room in my condo for a db4 or db8. My brother is going to get a db4 and hide it in his closet. The only time i have problems is when its windy. Wish there was some way to ground it indoors


What do you mean by "ground it indoors"?

If you mean mounting it, there's gotta be somewhere. I put mine in the attic. I screwed 18"x18"X1/2" plywood to the joists. Then I screwed a 3/4" NPT flange to the plywood. The DB-2 attaches to a piece of 3/4" iron pipe, and the pipe screws into the flange.

If you mean grounding it electrically, there's no reason you can't do that indoors.


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

dalesd said:


> What do you mean by "ground it indoors"?
> 
> If you mean mounting it, there's gotta be somewhere. I put mine in the attic. I screwed 18"x18"X1/2" plywood to the joists. Then I screwed a 3/4" NPT flange to the plywood. The DB-2 attaches to a piece of 3/4" iron pipe, and the pipe screws into the flange.
> 
> If you mean grounding it electrically, there's no reason you can't do that indoors.


I think grounding it will stop the picture from going bad when someone turns the light switch on and off.


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## JaneiR36 (Oct 18, 2007)

Would I need to do anything special to tell my Series 2 TiVo to look for both Cable & Antenna inputs? I'm not sure I can set up my TV to do both, really. I've got an 8 year old Phillips Magnavox.

Comcast is replacing Insight Communications in my area, and already we got a flyer about rate hikes. Where they hadn't charged for additional digital outlets before, they'll start charging $7.95  But since I don't have any setup boxes, what really caught my eye was that they listed the prices for Basic & Extended cable separately, almost like I could get them like so if I wanted. I would like to keep OTA & Extended cable only, saving about $13 / mo. I really like that signal combination idea using two antennae and a splitter so I can tune the channels in separtely if necessary. Can this work for me?

EDIT: HA! I did a search for "OTA cable" to find this thread, didn't realize this was the Series *3* forum.  Is this something that would mainly work with a Series 3?


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## scsiguy72 (Nov 25, 2003)

JaneiR36 said:


> EDIT: HA! I did a search for "OTA cable" to find this thread, didn't realize this was the Series *3* forum.  Is this something that would mainly work with a Series 3?


Not sure if it would work for Series 2 or not. It will work for S3.

Does the S2 have both inputs on the back? If so I would think it would work


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

There is almost no chance they will sell you extended without basic. Even if they would and if you could combine cable and antenna you would have less than a year before analog broadcasting ends and you would need a digital box for the antenna anyway.

The reason a series 3 can do both is because it has two inputs an internal switch. The series 2 doesnt


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## JaneiR36 (Oct 18, 2007)

Time to get a new TV *and* TiVo Box so I can "save" on Cable


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## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

scsiguy72 said:


> I live 40+ miles from the towers and I got a Radio Shack UHF/VHF $29 antenna and a 5 foot mast.


Which antenna was that? The cheapest outdoor UHF/VHF antenna I can find is this one. I am seriously considering going OTA as opposed to QAM. I am in sort of the same boat as you are. I am 45-50 miles from the TV towers and I am doubtful if it will be worth it.


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## Lupin (Apr 3, 2007)

Wow phoenix must have really good deals on cable. For me I have Starz movie package 1 Cable Card 1 Digital Tier Expanded Cable plus Internet for 121 a month after taxes. If i got rid of the starz and the digital tier it'd be like 100 with the $40 internet fee as well. So the cheapest for us to get HD is $60 roughly.


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## jeepguy_1980 (Mar 2, 2008)

I have a DB-8 and a Terk HDTVa. The Terk is an awesome indoor antenna. It picks up stations antennaweb says I shouldn't be able to.

I think the Terk is better than the DB-8. But since I like to keep my antenna in the attic, I feel more comfortable using the DB-8, so I don't have to keep the Terk's amplifier plugged in in the attic.


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## TolloNodre (Nov 3, 2007)

jeepguy_1980 said:


> I have a DB-8 and a Terk HDTVa. The Terk is an awesome indoor antenna. It picks up stations antennaweb says I shouldn't be able to.
> 
> I think the Terk is better than the DB-8. But since I like to keep my antenna in the attic, I feel more comfortable using the DB-8, so I don't have to keep the Terk's amplifier plugged in in the attic.


AntennaWeb is WAY too conservative. Use TVFool.com to get a more accurate idea, good location graphic too.


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## Sundog301 (Mar 17, 2007)

I'm 15 - 20 miles west of downtown Chicago. Never have had cable or satellite and not getting it -- OTA only. Have had Series 2 TiVo for four years and loved it. Have had reception problems though for analog TV. I'm in a five story condo building with rooftop antenna. Week ago last Friday got beautiful new Sony Bravia HD TV. Great HD reception through TV. Analog stations still reasonably to very good through TiVo. Tomorrow I am getting my TiVo HD. I have missed the on-screen guide big time.


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## reh523 (Feb 28, 2006)

I understand it is a Tivo forum. I do not understand why people pay all the money to record OTA? Vista MCE does it very well, as does XP MCE and i think Dish is on the right track with the TR-50..... See here http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=380516


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

reh523 said:


> I understand it is a Tivo forum. I do not understand why people pay all the money to record OTA? Vista MCE does it very well, as does XP MCE and i think Dish is on the right track with the TR-50..... See here http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=380516


Because many people would rather spend time doing something else other than trying to build a PC that fits in an entertainment center. The TR-50 doesn't even exist yet, and buying a Windows MCE in a HTPC form factor is generally way more expensive than a TiVo with 3 years of service.


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## scsiguy72 (Nov 25, 2003)

EvilMidniteBombr said:


> Which antenna was that? The cheapest outdoor UHF/VHF antenna I can find is this one. I am seriously considering going OTA as opposed to QAM. I am in sort of the same boat as you are. I am 45-50 miles from the TV towers and I am doubtful if it will be worth it.


That "looks" like the one I got, but it is differant model number.

I got the model VU-75XRX. I got it at the Local Radio Shack. I asked for a differant model (don't remember which one) and the guy told me it was discontinued and said he had this one, I took it and it works perfect for me.


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## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

scsiguy72 said:


> That "looks" like the one I got, but it is differant model number.
> 
> I got the model VU-75XRX. I got it at the Local Radio Shack. I asked for a differant model (don't remember which one) and the guy told me it was discontinued and said he had this one, I took it and it works perfect for me.


Thanks. I'll probably be stopping by RS one day soon to see what they have. There may be an outside chance that they have a discontinued or display model at a discount.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

reh523 said:


> I understand it is a Tivo forum. I do not understand why people pay all the money to record OTA? Vista MCE does it very well, as does XP MCE and i think Dish is on the right track with the TR-50..... See here http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=380516


Huh? 

Lessee...I could buy a computer, go thru all the rigamarole to set it up, find a place to put, yada yada.

Or I could buy a TiVo (or two or three), hook it up, spend about 5 minutes in Guided Setup, and voila! :up:

The TiVo looks like a piece of AV equipment, and has the best UI on the market.

Windows runs like a lame dog, is subject to the vagaries of the OS and just plain ain't as user friendly as our TiVo. I use XP to run this laptop, but TiVo to watch TV.


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## vulture99 (Mar 5, 2008)

reh523 said:


> I understand it is a Tivo forum. I do not understand why people pay all the money to record OTA? Vista MCE does it very well, as does XP MCE and i think Dish is on the right track with the TR-50..... See here http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=380516


It's worth considering, for certain people. I built my own Linux-based HTPC in 2003 and ran MythTV until recently (well, it's still running as I migrate over to my new TiVo HD). MythTV is mostly great - the freedom to do what you want with the interface and recordings is really phenomenal. I can play any video over my network, as well as my entire mp3 collection. And setting up recordings is a breeze, especially with the mythweb web interface. Until last year, guide data were free. Not any more, but a schedulesdirect.org subscription is quite cheap for what you get.

Now that the TiVo HD/S3 units have the following features I think the scales are tipped toward the TiVo:

Multiple tuners - record two shows simultaneously
HDMI
Optical audio
Hassle-free HD recording and playback
Cheap hardware ($179 refurb TiVo HD?!)
Don't have to tweak very much
Connect to other computers to play video & audio
Quiet
...and likely other features I am forgetting at the moment...

Even with the TiVo subscription cost (which feels exorbitant coming from MythTV), I could have purchased a couple of TiVo units with lifetime subscriptions for what I paid in hardware. Not to mention all the time invested with researching components, building the box, tweaking xorg.conf, dealing with remote controls, etc.

It was fun but I am tired of tweaking, and don't want to reconfigure my MythTV system to handle HD video. So it's time for me to try TiVo HD


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## sloan (Feb 13, 2003)

> I understand it is a Tivo forum. I do not understand why people pay all the money to record OTA? Vista MCE does it very well, as does XP MCE and i think Dish is on the right track with the TR-50.....


The tivo unbox/amazon thing is the one item I like having.

I am currently building a nice Vista/MCE machine, to use as the bedroom DVR.

Vista/MCE is very nice.

The TivoHD/unbox gives you a way to get a specific show (at cost). So if you have one favorite show that isn't on OTA, you have an option.

Please correct me if MCE can do this. I don't know how to if it is available.

..

Also. There are known secondary OTA channel issues with MCE. The zap data is off a little, and the secondary's channel guide data shows the primary channel. Not a huge deal, but it is a nuisance. I also had to manual program in a few of my channels (the UHF band).

So MCE has a few setup issues.

The TivoHD works flawlessly.

I'm not saying MCE is bad, its great. But TivoHD outshines it.

The question is does it outshine it enough for the price? That is probably a personal decision.

..


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## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

TiVo is also not subject to virus attacks.


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

EvilMidniteBombr said:


> TiVo is also not subject to virus attacks.


Says who? Have you audited their code?


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## AZ_Tivo (Jan 17, 2005)

When I got my THD, I hooked it up to the rabbit ears I had lying around. I got a signal quality of 90+ on NBC but 80+ on FOX and 70+ on CBS/PBS. I am around 15-20 miles from towers.

I got the big ugly RatShack indoor antenna.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/i...057.2032187.2032189.2032204&parentPage=family

But the singal was lower than my rabbit ears.

Now I got the philips MANT940 indoor/outdoor antenna.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5000836

It didn't really work indoors so I am trying to position it outside the house. But so far I cannot get a better signal than 60. The manual does not say how is one suppose to position it. Should the flat surface be facing towers? Any tips here? Anyone else using this little guy? Or am I better off getting a 'REAL' antenna?


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## benraymond (Mar 31, 2008)

OTA only in Boston Area - Antenna up in the attic, get all the channels from the antenna farm 17 mi away, no problem with reception.

Generally love it, lots of PBS shows for the Kids, no cable bill

Downside is the Red Sox and Celtics are cable only in this town.

Overall worth it, for me anyway


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## mvnuenen (Jun 1, 2007)

How about dusting off an old thread?

Here I am sitting enjoying my AppleTV, my PS3 and my star-prized TivoS3. I have access to content from Netflix, Hulu TV, Amazon, iTunes store, you name it... (directly or thru streaming). Why in God's beautiful earth am I still with TWC??!! 

Sorry, I just had to vent...


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## ciper (Nov 4, 2004)

bizzy said:


> Says who? Have you audited their code?


If someone figures out how to write a virus for an unmodified THD or S3 or late series 2 I would be very happy to see it.

The reason? We could use the same entry point to add hacks to our machines without the need for a prom mod and kernel swap! The only way I can see a virus getting on the box is if somehow the Tivo engineers included it in an update,,, which is extremely unlikely.

In other words I'd argue that in stock configuration the Tivo is the most virus proof hardware one can own with writable media.


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## trojanrabbit (Mar 10, 2001)

Just noticed that WFXT Ch25 in Boston has shut down their analog signal early. Dec 8th I think.


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## Sapphire (Sep 10, 2002)

trojanrabbit said:


> Just noticed that WFXT Ch25 in Boston has shut down their analog signal early. Dec 8th I think.


Couple of them here did that - WTBY, WRNN, WLNY.


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## JWThiers (Apr 13, 2005)

ciper said:


> If someone figures out how to write a virus for an unmodified THD or S3 or late series 2 I would be very happy to see it.
> 
> The reason? We could use the same entry point to add hacks to our machines without the need for a prom mod and kernel swap! The only way I can see a virus getting on the box is if somehow the Tivo engineers included it in an update,,, which is extremely unlikely.
> 
> In other words I'd argue that in stock configuration the Tivo is the most virus proof hardware one can own with writable media.


Ditto!! :up::up::up:

On an unhacked Tivo, if the OS gets changed from stock, the OS recovers it to stock configuration.


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