# Goodbye HR10-250! the most unreliable piece of gear I've ever owned



## pixlpush (Oct 7, 2004)

I just called and got the $19.95 deal to get a HR20 and new dish. I'm looking forward to putting the HR10-250 out to pasture, it won't even boot up right now. Its crashed so many times since the last software update I cant even keep track anymore. Without the support this forum has provided I would have taken the thing out into the street and beat it with a baseball bat long ago. I purchased my HR10-250 shortly after they came out for nearly $1000.00. I can unequivocally say it is the most problematic piece of electronic equipment I've ever owned, a complete piece of crap in my opinion. Ill spare you the gory details but here's a short summary that will no doubt sound familiar to you HR10 owners: Dead slow menus, 2 dead HDMI cards, 3 replacement boxes, software upgrade leaves it DOA, replaced 6 hardrives, and that's all I can remember. My technophobe wife is now convinced that they're something fundamentally wrong with HDTV because the HR10-250 failed so many times and refuses to record any of her programs in HD. I can only hope that the HR20 is better, its hard to imagine it being any worse.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

And for the other side of the coin, my HR10-250 has worked just fine through all of the software upgrades.

We'll see you on the DBSTalk HR20 forum.


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## pixlpush (Oct 7, 2004)

Well I'm glad not everyone has had my experience. The only reason I put up with it so long was there weren't any other options available and I couldn't make myself eat the $1000.00 purchase price. Here's hoping for better things from the HR20


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## bpratt (Nov 20, 2004)

I agree with Jim, I have not seen problems with my two HR10-250s other than some audio dropouts after 6.3b was received. Maybe you have a problem with too much heat or unreliable power. If so, you will probably also have problems with your new HR20 unless you provide better air circulation or a UPS.
I also purchased my first HR10-250 shortly after they came out for $1000. Its still going strong.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

We've got 3 HR10's and when the units were all on 3.x, the only problem was....as they filled up with programming they got slower.

I let them upgrade one at a time, and with 6.3a I had the audio dropout problem on local OTA channels (10 second dropout on one of them). When 6.3d came, I let all 3 upgrade and they've been performing flawlessly since.

We added an HR20 to the mix, and we've been _extremely_ disappointed with the performance of the unit. Hopefully, you'll have better luck than we did.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

I have two HR10s and in each one, the HDMI card died. I switched to component output and still use them, but it meant I had to rewire my whole AV system to configure for sound. It's been frustrating, but I expect to get another 8-10 months out of my HR10s before I swap them for HR20s to add to the one I already have ...


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

I guess I am lucky with regards to the HDMI problem because my HDTV doesn't have an HDMI input.  
I don't even know if that card works.


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## headcase (Jun 27, 2005)

That sounds pretty rough -- I feel for ya.

My two HR10-250's and my two SD TiVo's have been going strong, hacks and all. Then again, whenever it started to act a little flakey, I was happy to wipe the hard drive clean. ;-)


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## BOBCAT (Nov 28, 2002)

I have 4 HR10-250's And they are flawless. Although I have replaced all of the original hard drives with 400GB 7200RPM units, I have had only one hard drive failure and that was an original 250GB drive.
All upgrades to 6.3D went well, No audio dropouts, lockup's, missed recordings. Moves fast through menus, When I press record, it does it without long wait times. My dad's unit plays just as well also.
I will use these units until the sun sets on the MPEG2 stream.
Don't know why some people have trouble with their HR10's. The only reason that I can think of is that there hard drives have bad spots that the new software wrote to.


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## captain_video (Mar 1, 2002)

I've worked with dozens of HDTivos and only one that I've owned personally ever had an issue with the HDMI card. The only other problems I've ever had with any of them is when 6.3 was first introduced. I experienced the audio dropout problems that plagued most people. You can blame Tivo and DirecTV for the issue and not the hardware.

Sorry to hear that you had such a bad experience with your HDTivo. As with any consumer product, there are lemons out there and it sounds like you got one. I'd bet that a clean OS install would have fixed your problem. If not, then a new hard drive probably would. It's been my experience that taking software upgrades on top of a bad running Tivo just exaggerates the situation. It's best to wipe the slate clean and start over in most instances. I've wasted too much time and energy over the years trying to track down software problems on Tivos. It's just faster and easier to start over from scratch.


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## sleeplyee (Jun 25, 2007)

Have a nice deal. I like it. 



thanks


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Sorry to hear you had such problems with your HR10. Both of mine came from the original batch. Other than 2 bad HDMI cards, which I gave up on, they have both worked fine. I did get the new 5 lnb dish and multiswitch installed over the weekend , so I'm ready for the HR20's now. Just not sure when to get them. No new channels are available I can't get yet....


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## bacevedo (Oct 31, 2003)

Wow - I never had problems with my HR10 either. However, I know that there are some people who had issues with them.

That's one reason why I decided to move forward with the HR20. I read people were having issues with them, but I also read people were having issues with the HR10. I thought, hey, just 'cause they are having issues doesn't mean that I will have issues. Glad I ordered it, no problems with the HR20 at all.

My HR10 is now in my bedroom, hoooked up to an old 27" CRT (non hi-def). It still makes a very nice 200 hour SD tivo. 

Bryan


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

HDTivo rocks!


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to HR10-250 problems. I'm on my second. The first died after about a year. My current one performed flawlessly until the latest software release. There were no problems until about a month after it updated to 6.3d and now, for the past month at least, it locks up daily on average and must be manually reboooted. Then it works fine for an indeterminate amout of time before locking up again.

The Protection Plan has already agreed to replace it with an HR20 which I will own and to upgrade to the 5 LNB dish. But I really don't want to lose the TiVo software and have not okayed the swap yet. But, I'm getting closer every day.

You don't suppose there's something inserted in the software to cause the remaining HR10-250s to gradually go bad, do you? Pardon me while I adjust my aluminum hat.


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## rb5505 (Jul 29, 2004)

while not perfect, our hr10-250 was mostly trouble free. i recall some problems during the upgrade software time, but that eventually ended (knocking on wood). an hr20-700 is due soon, hopefully i'll adapt to it. the tivo design for me will be hard to follow.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

HDTivo is the greatest!


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

I was an HR10 fan, but cmon people, you can't say they are flawless or wonderful. If you were stuck with an early model you had to deal with HDMI problems.

But even if you didn't, the 6.3, 6.3a, 6.3b, 6.3c, 6.3d fiasco was the final straw. I was honestly very happy with the functionality I had with the HR10 (directv combined with OTA HD), but couldn't deal with their horrible support. It was either going to be an HR20 or Series3, but with the HR20 having so many problems and Directv requiring the HD package, the series3 made sense.

Best decision I ever made. Saving a TON of dough on analog cable and getting OTA HD...


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## zamzickles (May 21, 2002)

Sat T-60 and HR10-250 both are on their 3rd drives. I use them alot but don't think I'll ever be able to justify the $1000 for the HR10. If you were deep into computers, you find that few computers, even high end models, are able to playback HD, while recording 2 HD streams in the backround.

The truth of the matter is that they proposed and delivered a product that was ahead of it's time, and possibly, not up to doing everything we expected at the same time. The weak link was always the hard drive.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

pixlpush said:


> ...HR10-250...s crashed so many times since the last software update I cant even keep track anymore... I can unequivocally say it is the most problematic piece of electronic equipment I've ever owned...


Obviously you've never owned a DISH 501, a DISH 508, or a DISH 721 (or anything running Windows ME on it).

I've had the exact opposite experience, with 3 HR10's, which are remarkably reliable compared to everything else I've used. Yours was a piece of crap, no contest there. My three are magical.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

HDTivo .... "feel the joy"


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## rb5505 (Jul 29, 2004)

TyroneShoes said:


> Obviously you've never owned a DISH 501, a DISH 508, or a DISH 721 (or anything running Windows ME on it).
> 
> I've had the exact opposite experience, with 3 HR10's, which are remarkably reliable compared to everything else I've used. Yours was a piece of crap, no contest there. My three are magical.


dish & windows, what a perfect disfunctional pair! i'll take my mac and directv (with their horrendous cust svc) any day.


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## pixlpush (Oct 7, 2004)

After reading everyone's posts here I'm actually glad to hear most of you have had better experiences with your HR10-250's. Don't take me wrong, in the brief periods when mine was functioning properly it was great, everything I could want in a DVR. Problem is that those up and functioning periods weren't very numerous for me and have become more and more infrequent. I have limits.

I can never understand the willingness, myself included, to put up with failure prone technology. If you make an anaology to a car it's hard to imagine people saying things like...

1) "I've had to put 6 new engines in her but now she runs great."

2) "I think I remember it leaving me stranded out in the middle of Death Valley when GM upgraded the ECU over the air but it runs great now."

3) "GM will be happy to replace it with a new Cadillac if it ever gets to the point where it won't start and they can't fix it either."

While I'm waiting for the new install I checked the drives, they're fine, and instantcaked myself back to 6.3b and it's up and running again. I keep hoping that something I do will magically make it work without fault. I'm not expecting much at this point but I really am standing by to club it like a harp seal if it craps out one more time.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

Could be some folk are lemon magnets.


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## captain_video (Mar 1, 2002)

> If you were stuck with an early model you had to deal with HDMI problems.


I had two early models and only one of them had an HDMI problem. The other one worked fine from day 1.


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## ebockelman (Jul 12, 2001)

How ironic that you are disgusted with the lack of reliability of the HR10 and then go buy an HR20. 

If you care about HDMI, I wish you the best of luck with the HR20. So far, I have had two HR20s on two different HDMI equipped televisions. Both TV worked great with the HR10 and Tivo S3 over HDMI. Neither work with the HR20.

To make matters worse, it's not that the video won't display from the HR20. The box refuses to boot if the HDMI cord is connected! The same result happens from and HR20-700 and HR20-100.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

ebockelman said:


> How ironic that you are disgusted with the lack of reliability of the HR10 and then go buy an HR20.
> 
> If you care about HDMI, I wish you the best of luck with the HR20. So far, I have had two HR20s on two different HDMI equipped televisions. Both TV worked great with the HR10 and Tivo S3 over HDMI. Neither work with the HR20.
> 
> To make matters worse, it's not that the video won't display from the HR20. The box refuses to boot if the HDMI cord is connected! The same result happens from and HR20-700 and HR20-100.


Out of curiosity... WHEN did that occur?
As that type of issue is FAR from the norm reported for several months now.


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## sluciani (Apr 21, 2003)

I had four of them, one dating back to the first batch of $1000 HR10s, way back when. Used them right up until 6.3d and all of them worked without any major hiccups. HDMI as well.

Can I ask the OP why he never requested a replacement HR10? Sounds like yours may have been a lemon. It happens. /steve


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

He done said he's had 3 replacement boxes (all lemony fresh).


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## ebockelman (Jul 12, 2001)

ebonovic said:


> Out of curiosity... WHEN did that occur?
> As that type of issue is FAR from the norm reported for several months now.


The HR20-700 attached to a Monoprice HDMI switch still doesn't work with my Mitsubishi projector. I last tried it about a month ago. To be fair, I should try that one again.

The HR20-100 (yes, the new model) attached directly to an Olevia LCD does the same thing (hangs at boot). Tried two days ago.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

ebockelman said:


> The HR20-700 attached to a Monoprice HDMI switch still doesn't work with my Mitsubishi projector. I last tried it about a month ago. To be fair, I should try that one again.
> 
> The HR20-100 (yes, the new model) attached directly to an Olevia LCD does the same thing (hangs at boot). Tried two days ago.


What model Olevia (exact model number)...
And what happens with the Mitsu when you connect directly to it...

Also: Which model Switch, and Model Mitsu


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

ebockelman said:


> The HR20-700 attached to a Monoprice HDMI switch still doesn't work with my Mitsubishi projector. I last tried it about a month ago. To be fair, I should try that one again.
> 
> The HR20-100 (yes, the new model) attached directly to an Olevia LCD does the same thing (hangs at boot). Tried two days ago.


When my HR20-700 was connected via HDMI to my LG plasma, I never had any issues with HDMI.

I now use a cheapie RadioShack 5-HDMI switcher, and the only HDMI issue I have is when the HR20 reboots, I can't see the first "Almost there... Just a few more minutes" screen. After that, though, everything is fine.

There are tons of variables that go into troubleshooting, and DirecTV is reviewing information posted by users about HDMI problems to make improvements. Best thing (outside of having Earl take your information) is to post about your HDMI issue at DBSTalk so DirecTV sees it ...


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## BlankMan (Mar 30, 2002)

I'll take it. I'll pay shipping and any packaging costs. PM me.

I got mine as soon as they were available, can't say it's been any more of a PITA then any other unit. I'm happy with it for what it is.


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## jfischer (Oct 14, 1999)

I've got a very early build (paid $1,000 for it). Been running great since day 1, the only thing I did was upgrade the drive to 500GB. No HDMI board failure, no reboot problems, nothing. I should consider myself lucky I guess and go buy a lottery ticket or two!


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## Budget_HT (Jan 2, 2001)

I have one "original" HD TiVo (bought in the first month) and one bought a year later. The newer one was unhappy with the early 6.x releases but has settled in fine since the latest release. The older one has not even burped, ever. I use HDMI one both units with no problem.

As someone stated earlier, I would suspect dirty power and/or heat caused by inadequate ventilation to be contributors to failing HD TiVo units.


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## Citivas (Oct 12, 2000)

pixlpush said:


> I just called and got the $19.95 deal to get a HR20 and new dish. I'm looking forward to putting the HR10-250 out to pasture, it won't even boot up right now. Its crashed so many times since the last software update I cant even keep track anymore. Without the support this forum has provided I would have taken the thing out into the street and beat it with a baseball bat long ago. I purchased my HR10-250 shortly after they came out for nearly $1000.00. I can unequivocally say it is the most problematic piece of electronic equipment I've ever owned, a complete piece of crap in my opinion. Ill spare you the gory details but here's a short summary that will no doubt sound familiar to you HR10 owners: Dead slow menus, 2 dead HDMI cards, 3 replacement boxes, software upgrade leaves it DOA, replaced 6 hardrives, and that's all I can remember. My technophobe wife is now convinced that they're something fundamentally wrong with HDTV because the HR10-250 failed so many times and refuses to record any of her programs in HD. I can only hope that the HR20 is better, its hard to imagine it being any worse.


Best of luck to you.

In my experience, all the DVR's from every manufacture are hit-and-miss, unit-by-unit as opposed to model. I have owned 6 DirecTiVo's and 2 other DVR's over the years (since 1999) and for me the 10-250 has overall been the most reliable of them all.

By comparison, while it dramatically improved in stability several moths ago, the HR-20 was in a league of its own in terms of unreliability. I serious nightmare. And it wasn't just a hardware failure like my other DVR problems but flawed software. D* knew this which is why they wouldn't replace it and expected me to just wait for 4 months while the HR20 crashed daily, took about 25 minuets to reload and successfully recorded about 60% of my season pass programming overall. They evetually sent me 6 coupons for free PPV movies that could be used only once a month and expired in 3 months (do the math on that) for my trouble...


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## jons623 (May 26, 2004)

I purchased one of those $1K H10-250s. HDMI was DOA - got a repalcement which worked fine until the drive died. Got another drive from WN and it is still going strong. With the new HD bird appearing soon I know my H10-250 has a limited life.


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## rjnerd (May 28, 2007)

Was browsing thru the program listings today, and got "error 32" when I pushed into the detail data on a few programs. (if a listing had the error, it always had the error) Perhaps the corrupted program listings of last year are back.


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## gquiring (Dec 13, 2002)

You can add me to the most unreliable piece of junk crowd. My HR10 died the first month I had it, HDMI also never worked and after the 6.x upgrades it boots, stops recording shows, audio issues, black/green screens and whatever...

I don't watch much TV in the summer but I have to make up mind, switch to CableVision or stay with D* and get a HR20. I am going to wait and see what exactly D* will offer over the next few months in new HD channels. I am tempted to switch to cable because I really miss not having Starz & MAX in HD.


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## Citivas (Oct 12, 2000)

gquiring said:


> You can add me to the most unreliable piece of junk crowd. My HR10 died the first month I had it, HDMI also never worked and after the 6.x upgrades it boots, stops recording shows, audio issues, black/green screens and whatever...
> 
> I don't watch much TV in the summer but I have to make up mind, switch to CableVision or stay with D* and get a HR20. I am going to wait and see what exactly D* will offer over the next few months in new HD channels. I am tempted to switch to cable because I really miss not having Starz & MAX in HD.


What kind of DVR does Cablevision offer or would you use a TiVo Series 3?

The HR20 is nothing special, so I would consider it neutral in your analysis, versus other factors like the programming package and costs. Now that they finally finished forcing us to Beta test the product for months as paid subscribers, the HR20 is OK. A few things are better than the TiVo even, and a few things aren't as good. My main gripe at this point is the remote which is like comparing a Kia to a BMW compared to the TiVo remote. But intitative button placement aside, it just doesn't work well. It sometimes skips keys, then double enters them. Manually entering a channel # is sometimes an act of frustration requiring 5 tries. If I an trying to get 269 I may have to deal with 69, 26, 2 or 699, etc. before I finally get what I entered. And it is supposed to be RF capable but that doesn't work well. I have had RF remotes for 12 years so I know how they should work, and this ain't it...

In terms of stability, mine only requires a forced reset about once a month now, which is massively better than the daily resets I started with on it. By comparison, my 10-250 usually goes the entire Fall to Spring with no resets, but then requires them every few weeks during the hottest weather -- it is definitely temperature sensitive even if an air conditioned environment with lots of (passive) venting room..


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## kbohip (Dec 30, 2003)

My HR10's been extremely stable, never requiring a reboot from me ever, except of course when the 6.3x updates started hitting it. That's when I started having problems with the machine like freeze up's, missed recordings, and just general strange behavior. All seems fine with it now, and truthfully, I have no idea what revision software is on it anymore, I got so tired of checking it everyday while waiting for 6.3 I never look anymore.

The worst DVR I've ever owned? That's easy, the Dish 522DVR. I only had it one month it was so bad and it caused me to cease being a Dish customer of over 5 years. The thing was just awful. The only thing that it did reliably was reboot itself on it's every whim.


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## fjwagner (Jan 22, 2006)

just set up my new HR20 and moved the HR10 to a new HDTV in the back room. I must say that the HR20 is better than I thought, but setting up a season pass seems more complex than it should. I probably am just too used to the Tivo OS. Inevitable to get the HR20 with all of the new HD coming our way. Fred


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## kbohip (Dec 30, 2003)

fjwagner said:


> just set up my new HR20 and moved the HR10 to a new HDTV in the back room. I must say that the HR20 is better than I thought, but setting up a season pass seems more complex than it should. I probably am just too used to the Tivo OS. Inevitable to get the HR20 with all of the new HD coming our way. Fred


Did they make you go for a 2 year agreement on the HR20? How much did they charge you for the HR20? Sorry for the questions, but I'm coming to a crossroads because of the MPEG4 situation so I'm going to have to make a decision here soon.


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## fjwagner (Jan 22, 2006)

My HR10 has a bad HDMI card and I had the service contract so they sent me a new HR20 at no charge and no extension to my 2 year contract. That was a stipulation of mine and they were perfectly agreeable; probably as I had been paying the 5.99 or 6.99 a month for about a year. The HR10 works just fine with component though and has lots of life left for the other HDTV. They are coming out in a couple of weeks to put in the 5 LNB dish.


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## gquiring (Dec 13, 2002)

Citivas said:


> What kind of DVR does Cablevision offer or would you use a TiVo Series 3?


CV uses a SA8300. I would go that route because of the no money down and no commitment. The Series 3 is way too pricey and an extra monthly fee.


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## geo9234 (Dec 29, 2004)

ok....I have the whole family of Tive DVR's...standalone and set top boxes..I even have the HR10-250.

Question: Is there any significant difference between the Series 3 Tivo and the HR20? Other than a poosible support issue with DirecTv and Tivo? I need more info prior to me purchasing my next box.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

geo9234 said:


> ok....I have the whole family of Tive DVR's...standalone and set top boxes..I even have the HR10-250.
> 
> Question: Is there any significant difference between the Series 3 Tivo and the HR20? Other than a poosible support issue with DirecTv and Tivo? I need more info prior to me purchasing my next box.


T3 vs HR20... just short of day & night

The fundamental difference... there is no way to get T3 to work with DirecTV in any form.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

geo9234 said:


> ok....I have the whole family of Tive DVR's...standalone and set top boxes..I even have the HR10-250.
> 
> Question: Is there any significant difference between the Series 3 Tivo and the HR20? Other than a poosible support issue with DirecTv and Tivo? I need more info prior to me purchasing my next box.


Series 3 works with OTA and Cable, and with Cablecards, can decode digital/scrambled channels supplied by the cable company.

HR20 works with OTA and with DirecTV and acts just like your HR10 in that it receives digital channels. Unlike the HR10, the HR20 can process both MPEG2 and MPEG4 - the HR10 is MPEG2 only.

For more information on the HR20, visit the DirecTV HR20 forums at www.dbstalk.com, a sister site to TiVo Community Forums.


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## Chuck_IV (Jan 1, 2002)

I will admit, up until the latest minor software update, my Directv HAD been working perfectly. However, since the latest little update, I've been having sporatic 1-2 second audio dropouts, on some channel, SD and HD alike.

I have an HR20 coming(reluctantly), next week, so I can see if it's the box or my optical cable/ receiver.


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## RunnerFL (May 10, 2005)

JimSpence said:


> I guess I am lucky with regards to the HDMI problem because my HDTV doesn't have an HDMI input.
> I don't even know if that card works.


So then you wouldn't mind trading your HDMI card for my broken one?


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

RunnerFL said:


> So then you wouldn't mind trading your HDMI card for my broken one?


Like I said I don't even know if it works.  So there's no need to do a swap. Especially, if in the future I should get a new TV with HDMI. 
Except that the audio is part of the HDMI, component plus optical audio to my AV receiver works just fine. Does HDMI really give a better picture than component considering the compression that DirecTV is sending now?


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

JimSpence said:


> Does HDMI really give a better picture than component considering the compression that DirecTV is sending now?


It depends on the D to A converters. Consumer D to A converters are pretty much alike these days and pretty high quality. The one in the DirecTiVo will most likely be as good as the one in your television set.


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## parzec (Jun 21, 2002)

ebonovic said:


> T3 vs HR20... just short of day & night
> 
> The fundamental difference... there is no way to get T3 to work with DirecTV in any form.


And no way for the HR20 to work with Cablevision, Time Warner, Adlelphia or any cable company for that matter


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## RunnerFL (May 10, 2005)

JimSpence said:


> Like I said I don't even know if it works.  So there's no need to do a swap. Especially, if in the future I should get a new TV with HDMI.
> Except that the audio is part of the HDMI, component plus optical audio to my AV receiver works just fine. Does HDMI really give a better picture than component considering the compression that DirecTV is sending now?


All depends on your TV. I can tell a bit more of a difference on my LCD than I can on my Rear Projection between HDMI and Component.

With the RP it looks a little brighter/crisper but not too noticeable.

With the LCD though it's a bit more noticeable.


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