# TiVo not quite what I hopes for as a Cordcutter DVR



## davefred99 (Oct 31, 2004)

I am not a new TiVo user so I kinda new what to expect when I came back. My original experience was as a Cable/Fios customer using a 6 tuner Roamio and mini. Since I had cable I really never much used any online channels or services. The experience great as all my cable guide information was always available and the TiVo DVR was an improvement over the Fios box.

Then about a year ago I moved from the big city in Southern Ca.to a small rural area in Northern Ca. Fios or Cable are no longer an option for me so I parked my not so old TiVo setup and got DirecTv and there Genie system. To be fare The DTV system is not too bad but the price is about to kill me as the 1st year promo pricing is coming to an end soon.

So I am on a quest to become a cord cutter or at least a cord shaver. When I saw the resent summer sale on the TiVo Basic & OTA Roamio's I thought that since I can get pretty decent OTA reception I could get one and just hook up Netflix, Hulu along with Plex and maybe add in Sling TV and I would be good to go. Well my first problem is TiVo does not keep up with OTA channel guide info very well if you are getting your channels from Local Repeaters as they are not official FCC class c stations. I have called tech support and they have an open ticket now for more then a month. When I call and ask about the status they say it takes a long time to get things like this fixed if ever. So I wait and can not get much use out of the DVR unless I manually program it. No guide data on all but a few channels.

My next issue is that while Netflix and Hulu work OK there is no Sling TV app even if I use Plex. Also while TiVo does have an app store in Opera , there are a lot of apps that do not run under TiVo and most of them are substandard at best. I was hoping for a one box solution but it looks like I will need to get either a Roku or Fire TV box to get close to what I was looking for.

Maybe as TiVo will address these and other shortcomings with the TiVo Bolt Zero box but if it does not trickle down to the existing Roamio Boxes It will be a lost opportunity.
In Closing TiVo has a long way to go if it wants to became a cord-cutters go to box.


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

I guess TiVo is trying to promote it, but seems to me the search for the "One Box" is pretty hopeless except for those who just so happen to use a subset of what TiVo provides. 

It's probably a mistake that they're selling it that way because it raises expectations they cannot meet or potentially may not want to meet. For instance, would they even agree to host SlingTV if they could? Doing so may compete with whatever they may have in mind for providing IPTV services.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Having SlingTV on a DVR makes no sense. Why would you want to watch live streams via an app with no ability ot record, or even trick play, thise streams. Sling TV is a cool concept that's poorly executed. Playstation Vue is a better service, but they got caught in the the same bundling trap as cable and thier prices are too high. 

TiVo needs to get Hulu back, plus HBO Now/Go and Showtime Anytime, before they even consider adding Sling TV.


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

Not having the guide data would be very frustrating. I don't the issue with multiple boxes. I mainly use a FireTV but also have a Roku and a Chromecast.


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## davefred99 (Oct 31, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> Having SlingTV on a DVR makes no sense. Why would you want to watch live streams via an app with no ability ot record, or even trick play, thise streams. Sling TV is a cool concept that's poorly executed. Playstation Vue is a better service, but they got caught in the the same bundling trap as cable and thier prices are too high.
> 
> TiVo needs to get Hulu back, plus HBO Now/Go and Showtime Anytime, before they even consider adding Sling TV.


As too why have Sling and DVR on the same box, its all about convenience. I want one box, I don't care ware the programming comes from I just want to watch it when I want too. USTVnow could be a good alternate to SlingTV but there is no support for it on TiVo either. I want to stream some stuff and DVR other all from one Box.

I do not see why this is such a big deal. The days of just a DVR or Cable are coming to an end. It is all about convergence of all technologies. No one way to do things.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

davefred99 said:


> As too why have Sling and DVR on the same box, its all about convenience. I want one box, I don't care ware the programming comes from I just want to watch it when I want too. USTVnow could be a good alternate to SlingTV but there is no support for it on TiVo either. I want to stream some stuff and DVR other all from one Box.
> 
> I do not see why this is such a big deal. The days of just a DVR or Cable are coming to an end. It is all about convergence of all technologies. No one way to do things.


These live TV streaming services seem like a step backward. It's like TV in the 50s. With no DVR you're essentially tying yourself to watching TV at a specific time. Having been a TiVo user for the last 15+ years I don't even know when most shows are on, let alone want to have to sit down and watch them live at whatever time that may be.

I think if TiVo is going to add support for a service like that they need to work out a deal that, at the very least, allows them to buffer the streams into the 30 minute live buffer so that people can use instant replay. Without that minimal functionality it seems to completely defeat the purpose of having a DVR in the first place.


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## BryanSD (Aug 16, 2015)

I like Sling TV and also wish it was integrated on the Tivo. If not Sling, Tivo needs to work out a similar service with content providers for Live TV. I'd argue that Sling makes a heck of a lot more sense than Hulu as most of Hulu's content you can already get OTA.

While Sling doesn't offer DVR functionality, it does have VOD rights to much of the content similar to how you have it if you subscribed to regular cable. If we miss a show "live", we just watch it a few days later via VOD.


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## davefred99 (Oct 31, 2004)

SlingTV is not the best solution it is just the best we have for now. I too would prefer the ability to DVR it. We take what we get for now and build on it for the future. 
The point of it all as far as TiVo for me is I want to be able to evolve and as things become available quick to add that ability with new channels or apps. Plex on TiVo is a good start but its tied to Opera and thus limited in what is available to play. I don't much care if the content is held on my DVR locally or in the cloud as on demand just as long as its available when I want it.
P.S. I don,t much like the SlingTV model either but at least it is available if I choose to see it. As I said USTVnow is also an option albeit a little pricey and quasi legal since its marketed to military folks. Its strong point for me is it has FOX news and you can cloud DVR there channels.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

USTVnow is not technically legal to get in the US. You can, by lying about where you are, but since TiVo is a US only product it would be a bit sketchy to offer a USTVNow app on TiVo.

I'm sure TiVo would love to have a bunch of apps like Roku or Fire TV, but they don't have as many users so they end up at the bottom of the pile when these services are deciding which platforms to develop apps for. They went a long way to making that process easier when they converted to an HTML5 based apps platform, but even so developers still need to test and tweak their apps for the specific attributes of the TiVo box. (i.e. memory, CPU power, codecs supported, etc...) So they still have to wait for these services to specifically release their app for the TiVo platform and some of them might decide that with less then 1m subs TiVo is not worth the effort.


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## davefred99 (Oct 31, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> USTVnow is not technically legal to get in the US. You can, by lying about where you are, but since TiVo is a US only product it would be a bit sketchy to offer a USTVNow app on TiVo.
> 
> I'm sure TiVo would love to have a bunch of apps like Roku or Fire TV, but they don't have as many users so they end up at the bottom of the pile when these services are deciding which platforms to develop apps for. They went a long way to making that process easier when they converted to an HTML5 based apps platform, but even so developers still need to test and tweak their apps for the specific attributes of the TiVo box. (i.e. memory, CPU power, codecs supported, etc...) So they still have to wait for these services to specifically release their app for the TiVo platform and some of them might decide that with less then 1m subs TiVo is not worth the effort.


You do not have to lie about where you live or reside to sign up for USTVnow.
I signed up for the free trial just to see how it works and not only do they ask if you are in the USA but there is a check box to for it. I checked the yes I live in the USA and that was it, no other questions or qualifications. I just signed in and it works. If you do a search on the internet many others will confirm there is not presently any restriction on using it at home for now anyways. I do agree it is some what questionable as to how they get away with it but I don't really care about the legal stuff for now.

I also really do not care about the Symantec's of how or why TiVo gets or has access to certain content. I want what I want and if TiVo does not deliver it I will move on or just put up with it till I find a better solution. TiVo to me is playing a loosing hand when it comes to the future of TV and Media content if they do not evolve they will cease to be relevant. I am hoping they can change and survive but would not take a large bet on it.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

davefred99 said:


> I also really do not care about the Symantec's of how or why TiVo gets or has access to certain content. I want what I want and if TiVo does not deliver it I will move on or just put up with it till I find a better solution. TiVo to me is playing a loosing hand when it comes to the future of TV and Media content if they do not evolve they will cease to be relevant. I am hoping they can change and survive but would not take a large bet on it.


At this point there is no better solution. There is no other DVR on the market that has access to more apps then TiVo. There are streaming devices, like Roku, which have all the streaming content you could ever want but no DVR. And there are DVRs which have few, if any apps.

Perhaps one device that might meet your needs is Tablo. It's a headless DVR so you have to use a device like a Roku to watch it. In that case you'd use one remote to access both the DVR and all the apps. However the integration between those apps and the DVR would not be like TiVo. They'd just be separate experiences controlled by the same remote.


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## jimbop99 (Sep 27, 2004)

I am a cord cutter. I just recently dropped DirecTv after almost 20 years and purchased a TiVo to fill the dvr gap of watching OTA. This is a great piece of equipment and so far I am happy with it. I tried sling tv and thought is was quite interesting. As a cord cutter, I had to decide that there were going to be shows that I probably would never see again or I would have to buy the season from something like Amazon. I think Sling TV would fill most of that gap and at only $20/ month it is much cheaper than my old TV bill. If it were integrated into the TiVo, and it's guide, and possibly be able to record it I would definitely purchase the service. For now I shall pass.


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## davefred99 (Oct 31, 2004)

jimbop99 said:


> I am a cord cutter. I just recently dropped DirecTv after almost 20 years and purchased a TiVo to fill the dvr gap of watching OTA. This is a great piece of equipment and so far I am happy with it. I tried sling tv and thought is was quite interesting. As a cord cutter, I had to decide that there were going to be shows that I probably would never see again or I would have to buy the season from something like Amazon. I think Sling TV would fill most of that gap and at only $20/ month it is much cheaper than my old TV bill. If it were integrated into the TiVo, and it's guide, and possibly be able to record it I would definitely purchase the service. For now I shall pass.


Jim.
Well put and thanks for the input. My biggest problem right now with TiVo is the lack of current guide data. It is because my OTA Stations are not the original network stations. Instead they are local repeater stations rebroadcast THEM.


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## judyn (Feb 26, 2009)

We were a ReplayTV family with cable. We moved to where we could only get satellite, so we became cord cutters. With the switch of OTA to HD, we went to Tivo. We record and move stuff to our computers if we don't want to watch it immediately

We also have Netflix streaming, but also Netflix DVD because the choices are better (which we copy of course so we don't have to use a DVD player). We have Amazon Prime, but not for the video, which we rarely use.

We use Plex and Playlater. 

I never watch live and never watch commercials. I watch what I want when I want. 

We never watch sports, so the lack of that is no problem for us. We watch a lot of PBS (OTA PBS is 3 channels in Austin - 4 if you speak Spanish too) and have our favorite programs on the networks. 

The cable channel I miss most is Turner Classic Movies. But we have no many movies that we haven't watched that I don't worry about what's on TCM. 

Most of our TVs are smart, and my husband uses Plex, but I usually just let TIvo go get what I want off my server (running PyTIvo). Even our HD connected to a dumb TV can do that. 

There are a few programs that we have to watch on a computer if we want to see them. They won't play on smart TVs - a great disappointment. 

The TIvo solution is not perfect, but it's the best thing for us.


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## jimbop99 (Sep 27, 2004)

davefred99 said:


> Jim.
> Well put and thanks for the input. My biggest problem right now with TiVo is the lack of current guide data. It is because my OTA Stations are not the original network stations. Instead they are local repeater stations rebroadcast THEM.


Can you put in a different zip code, one where the TV stations originate from?


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

a standard cabletv package here is $60/mo. IF you get internet you get a $10 discount or something like that and so you could say it's $50/mo. 

Personally there is nothing to be gained by fiddling with and paying $20/mo for Sling TV and $10/mo for Hulu and then fiddling with OTA just to pay $20 less per month to get less content and more headaches.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

davefred99 said:


> Jim. Well put and thanks for the input. My biggest problem right now with TiVo is the lack of current guide data. It is because my OTA Stations are not the original network stations. Instead they are local repeater stations rebroadcast THEM.


I have to pickup my ota networks via repeaters and have no issues with the guide, FWIW.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

trip1eX said:


> a standard cabletv package here is $60/mo. IF you get internet you get a $10 discount or something like that and so you could say it's $50/mo.
> 
> Personally there is nothing to be gained by fiddling with and paying $20/mo for Sling TV and $10/mo for Hulu and then fiddling with OTA just to pay $20 less per month to get less content and more headaches.


On the plus side these sorts of services force cable companies to compete by lowering prices and offering tighter bundles with more popular channels.


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## davefred99 (Oct 31, 2004)

jimbop99 said:


> Can you put in a different zip code, one where the TV stations originate from?


I wish it was that easy. As far as TiVo is concerned they do not exist because they are not C class licensed stations or something like that. I have a trouble ticket in with TiVo tech support but they were not too encouraging about my prospects. I told them that it could not be all that much trouble to re-map the channels to the proper frequencies but they said its not how they do the guide. This baffles me because I have done just that in the past with Windows Media Center in the past and Sage TV before that. They said that a guide specialist is working on it but I doubt its a priority and its been 6 weeks in the process now.

Others have commented that its not worth the hassle and much simpler to just get cable. I have DirecTV now and its going to go up almost double in a few months this is why I am looking to cut the cord once and for all. I know that it will not be a perfect world going in but hope to get to a setup that is close. I have pretty much resigned myself to the idea that I will have to use more than just TiVo to meet my needs. It looks like I will need to add another streaming device such as Roku or FireTv.


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

Dan203 said:


> I think if TiVo is going to add support for a service like that they need to work out a deal that, at the very least, allows them to buffer the streams into the 30 minute live buffer so that people can use instant replay. Without that minimal functionality it seems to completely defeat the purpose of having a DVR in the first place.


That's a neat idea (as would having the option to record streams), but it would also becomes one more impediment to getting Apps on the box if TiVo insisted on it.

Anyway, it's TiVo that's tell us the Bolt is no longer just a DVR, so the comparisons to streaming boxes are inevitable. IMO, they're overselling the capability, but I guess marketing folks would rather get caught overselling a feature than underselling.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

davefred99 said:


> I thought that since I can get pretty decent OTA reception I could get one and just hook up Netflix, Hulu along with Plex and maybe add in Sling TV and I would be good to go. Well my first problem is TiVo does not keep up with OTA channel guide info very well if you are getting your channels from Local Repeaters as they are not official FCC class c stations. I have called tech support and they have an open ticket now for more then a month.


I think TiVo does the best job of any device so far in smoothly integrating various viewing sources for cord cutters but I agree with davefred99 that, for many folks (myself included), it's not capable enough to be the "one box for cord cutters" since it's missing various streaming apps. (Perhaps the Xbox One will emerge as the "one box" when it adds OTA DVR functionality soon.)

As for Sling TV, I think it would be a weird addition if it were simply a standalone app on TiVo, since your viewing time would be so divided between the normal TiVo UI for OTA channels and the Sling TV UI for cable channels. Granted, having all of that on the same box/input beats having to switch devices and remotes but I think it would make the TiVo sort of a frankenstein device. However, if Sling TV were integrated into OnePass, so that whatever on-demand shows offered by Sling TV could be reflected in TiVo's My Shows menu, it would be better. (OnePass, in my opinion, is what really sets TiVo apart from other devices in integrating various viewing sources.) Adding Sling TV to TiVo would only be ideal if Sling TV's live streaming channels could appear alongside OTA channels in the normal TiVo live program guide and you could switch between all channels with the normal Channel Up and Down keys on the remote. And as others have said, Sling TV's live streams could ideally be paused and rewound up to 30 minutes, just like live OTA TV. I'm not sure if Sling TV would go for that though, because it would really reduce the user's interaction with their own app/UI and there may be licensing issues involved with the content owners. Moreover, I seriously doubt TiVo has the internal resources to make such an integration happen. We'll be lucky if Sling TV shows up as a non-integrated standalone app on TiVo.

In the meantime, for cord cutters who really want an OTA DVR with a Sling TV app in the same device, check out the ChannelMaster DVR+, which is supposed to launch Sling TV soon. I don't think it's nearly as good a DVR as TiVo but it may be a better fit for some cord cutters depending on your specific needs. (Keep in mind, though, that the CM DVR+ doesn't have apps for Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, or Plex!) I have no idea whether the OTA channel guide data is any better for small stations on the CM DVR+ than with TiVo. Like davefred99, I have submitted guide data errors on local low power stations to TiVo and months have gone by with no correction.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> On the plus side these sorts of services force cable companies to compete by lowering prices and offering tighter bundles with more popular channels.


It probably won't hurt.

But remember that the $20/mo Sling tV is only good for 1 device at a time. Doubtful Cable(& and content providers) would match that price for an entire household.


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## steve771 (Dec 30, 2011)

Tivo apps like Netflix and Amazon are dog slow. Get a Roku 3. Shameful that a hockey puck device like Roku crushes Tivo in the streaming dept. 

With regards to SlingTV, I can't believe anyone who owns a Tivo (or other TV recording device) wants anything to do with it. No DVR function says 'welcome to the 1950's' (except you gotta pay).


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

steve771 said:


> Tivo apps like Netflix and Amazon are dog slow. Get a Roku 3. Shameful that a hockey puck device like Roku crushes Tivo in the streaming dept.
> 
> With regards to SlingTV, I can't believe anyone who owns a Tivo (or other TV recording device) wants anything to do with it. No DVR function says 'welcome to the 1950's' (except you gotta pay).


SLow? Not on the Bolt. Netflix is kept in memory so after the first time running it, then the next time it pops up in a split second.(it takes a few seconds to load the first time, just like the ROku 3) Amazon takes a few seconds to load, but so does Amazon on the Roku3. But also on the ROamio and Bolt Netflix and Amazon ramp up to 1080P much faster than the ROku. Netflix, Amazon, and Vudu are the three apps that I most definitely do not use the ROku for. Because the Roamio and Bolt both provide a much better experience than the ROku 3 or ROku 2. I rarely use my ROkus any more because I can get a better experience from other devices.

I have not tried a ROku 4 yet. Not sure if I will get one since the Bolt and ROmaio provides 90% of the streaming services I want. Although I still use the ROku for the Funimation app.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

davefred99 said:


> In Closing TiVo has a long way to go if it wants to became a cord-cutters go to box.


Arguable, depending on how large the demographic/market for which you speak. It's working great for me, but I'm in a large metro area w/ good Internet access and plentiful OTA channels available, sans "repeaters."

I thought you'd focus more on the fact that it's nearly impossible to "cut the cord" w/ modern TiVo devices, since they all require Internet access -- the cost for which often falls only a little short of bundled Internet/TV package pricing.


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## davefred99 (Oct 31, 2004)

krkaufman said:


> Arguable, depending on how large the demographic/market for which you speak. It's working great for me, but I'm in a large metro area w/ good Internet access and plentiful OTA channels available, sans "repeaters."
> 
> I thought you'd focus more on the fact that it's nearly impossible to "cut the cord" w/ modern TiVo devices, since they all require Internet access -- the cost for which often falls only a little short of bundled Internet/TV package pricing.


Actually up until a month ago getting affordable internet was all but impossible. I originally had to sign up for Verizon Fusion 4g and it was outrageously expensive for just 10~20 gb of data albeit was pretty fast for the most part. I had to pull a lot of strings to just now gt Frontier DSL 6/1 service. Our area has a shortage of capacity and they are not taking on any new customers until they can build out more but I fortunately got a hold of the area district manager and he made it happen. At first I was afraid I might not have a good enough internet speed to do much streaming but as it turns out i get a solid 3.5mbps down speed but with virtually no lag so it streams Netflix , Hulu and most other stuff without a problem in HD. I went from paying $60~$90 a month for limited bandwidth to now just $30 a month for unlimited albeit slightly slower but adequate Internet.

When you live in a rural area everything is a compromise and you have to just do the best you can and hope its good enough. There is no cable available here just DirecTv or Dishnet & OTA. I get good reception off my local repeater stations that carry all the major networks but most of it is still just SD only a few in HD. I am looking into putting up a high gain directional antenna and pulling in the major HD stations from there origination transmitters that are 85 mile away but are fringe 2 deflection or something like that according to antenna fool. I have hope because I can get faint signals now with my basic cheap outdoor antenna but just not enough to lock consistently. They are all High VHF signals.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

davefred99 said:


> Actually up until a month ago getting affordable internet was all but impossible. I originally had to sign up for Verizon Fusion 4g and it was outrageously expensive for just 10~20 gb of data albeit was pretty fast for the most part. I had to pull a lot of strings to just now gt Frontier DSL 6/1 service. Our area has a shortage of capacity and they are not taking on any new customers until they can build out more but I fortunately got a hold of the area district manager and he made it happen. At first I was afraid I might not have a good enough internet speed to do much streaming but as it turns out i get a solid 3.5mbps down speed but with virtually no lag so it streams Netflix , Hulu and most other stuff without a problem in HD. I went from paying $60~$90 a month for limited bandwidth to now just $30 a month for unlimited albeit slightly slower but adequate Internet.
> 
> When you live in a rural area everything is a compromise and you have to just do the best you can and hope its good enough. There is no cable available here just DirecTv or Dishnet & OTA. I get good reception off my local repeater stations that carry all the major networks but most of it is still just SD only a few in HD. I am looking into putting up a high gain directional antenna and pulling in the major HD stations from there origination transmitters that are 85 mile away but are fringe 2 deflection or something like that according to antenna fool. I have hope because I can get faint signals now with my basic cheap outdoor antenna but just not enough to lock consistently. They are all High VHF signals.


Run a Tvfool report for your exact address here: http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=1

Then run an Fmfool report here: http://fmfool.com/

Post the LINK to your Tvfool (it masks your address, so it's safe) and the screenshot of the Fmfool (this doesn't link through, thus the screenshot) Here: http://forum.tvfool.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7

Give them any info you can, such as any present antenna, wiring, what you get now, etc, etc. Give them the "must have" stations by station sign if you have any, and they'll help. You can't pay for the information and help they will give you FREE.

Next to the helpfulness of this forum, they are very helpful, and if it can be done, they'll get you up and running without you spending too much buying, trying, throwing out, and trying again. I'm not saying you might not have to do all that, but they'll narrow it down to a lot better chances than just guessing will do.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

davefred99 said:


> As too why have Sling and DVR on the same box, its all about convenience. I want one box, I don't care ware the programming comes from I just want to watch it when I want too. USTVnow could be a good alternate to SlingTV but there is no support for it on TiVo either. I want to stream some stuff and DVR other all from one Box.
> 
> I do not see why this is such a big deal. The days of just a DVR or Cable are coming to an end. It is all about convergence of all technologies. No one way to do things.


 Putting everything in one box is asking for trouble. Streaming is better in a second device.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

tenthplanet said:


> Putting everything in one box is asking for trouble. Streaming is better in a second device.


Roku shareholder? Just kidding! Seriously, one box, one remote, one AC outlet is the best possible solution. This saves money (one box to buy, less batteries to buy, no need for a universal remote), simplifies the user experience (one remote, similar experience from set to set), and minimizes support complexity.

At this time, TiVo is the best single box option. It has whole house functionality and streams all the major apps (Sling TV is not major at this time).

With the availability of the inexpensive Mini, this functionality can be extended to locations without cable/antenna.


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

Im not a fan of browsing for something to watch on Amazon using TiVo. I always use my FireTV instead.


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## JayMan747 (Nov 10, 2008)

Dan203 said:


> TiVo needs to get Hulu back, plus HBO Now/Go and Showtime Anytime, before they even consider adding Sling TV.


I would add Watch ESPN (for ESPN3) and MLB.COM.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

But now HSN follows you.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

JayMan747 said:


> I would add Watch ESPN (for ESPN3) and MLB.COM.


TiVo has had the MLB.TV app for a couple years now.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

NashGuy said:


> TiVo has had the MLB.TV app for a couple years now.


Dunno if it's just the BOLT I'm staring at, but the MLB.tv app isn't available as an option in the "My Video Providers" list. (In the same way that Hulu isn't available; that is, nowwhere to be seen.)


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

krkaufman said:


> Dunno if it's just the BOLT I'm staring at, but the MLB.tv app isn't available as an option in the "My Video Providers" list. (In the same way that Hulu isn't available; that is, nowwhere to be seen.)


It may be because the season is effectively over for this app. They don't show the playoff games because those are on national TV channels now, right?

Maybe they took it down to fix the crash issues?


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> Dunno if it's just the BOLT I'm staring at, but the MLB.tv app isn't available as an option in the "My Video Providers" list. (In the same way that Hulu isn't available; that is, nowwhere to be seen.)


Alas, I don't have a shiny new Bolt, just a Roamio. And it still lists MLB.tv among the available video providers in the Settings menu. I've never used it myself but it's there.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> It may be because the season is effectively over for this app. They don't show the playoff games because those are on national TV channels now, right?
> 
> *Maybe they took it down to fix the crash issues?*


Yeah, they likely didn't want an unstable app on the fresh, new BOLT. It's still listed on the Roamio.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

davefred99 said:


> My next issue is that while Netflix and Hulu work OK there is no Sling TV app even if I use Plex.





Dan203 said:


> Having SlingTV on a DVR makes no sense.


I guess you guys are talking about something DIFFERENT than SlingBox?

Because Tivos do have something _vaguely_ like that on the current Tivos, either built in on Roamio + and higher, except AFAIK the bottommost of both Roamio & Bolt (which can use the separate Tivo Stream box).

If that's really what you mean, being able to get _my shows_ to me, while not at home, is VERY important.

(I will disclaim that I currently am having _huge_ problems with successfully getting full downloads.. But in _theory_ it is vaguely like Slingbox..)


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

mattack said:


> I guess you guys are talking about something DIFFERENT than SlingBox?
> 
> Because Tivos do have something _vaguely_ like that on the current Tivos, either built in on Roamio + and higher, except AFAIK the bottommost of both Roamio & Bolt (which can use the separate Tivo Stream box).
> 
> ...


Yes, they are talking about the Streaming "Cable TV" type service called SlingTV. Read about it here.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> Yeah, they likely didn't want an unstable app on the fresh, new BOLT. It's still listed on the Roamio.


Maybe the MLB.tv app is coded in Flash? Bolt does not support Flash at all, which is why it has no Hulu app. It's HTML5 or nothing for Bolt.


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## bluedevil (Aug 5, 2015)

davefred99 said:


> As too why have Sling and DVR on the same box, its all about convenience. I want one box, I don't care ware the programming comes from I just want to watch it when I want too. USTVnow could be a good alternate to SlingTV but there is no support for it on TiVo either. I want to stream some stuff and DVR other all from one Box.
> 
> I do not see why this is such a big deal. The days of just a DVR or Cable are coming to an end. It is all about convergence of all technologies. No one way to do things.


Precisely. It's not a big deal for me to flip inputs to grab Sling from my Roku/FireTV, but my wife, mother, etc want this to work simply and easily.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

wizwor said:


> Roku shareholder? Just kidding! Seriously, one box, one remote, one AC outlet is the best possible solution. This saves money (one box to buy, less batteries to buy, no need for a universal remote), simplifies the user experience (one remote, similar experience from set to set), and minimizes support complexity.
> 
> At this time, TiVo is the best single box option. It has whole house functionality and streams all the major apps (Sling TV is not major at this time).
> 
> With the availability of the inexpensive Mini, this functionality can be extended to locations without cable/antenna.


 You don't want everything in a box with a hard drive, when the drive goes so does the box, and drives do die. When that happens you go looking for your streaming devices. The so called user experience is an electronic unicorn...


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

tenthplanet said:


> You don't want everything in a box with a hard drive, when the drive goes so does the box, and drives do die. When that happens you go looking for your streaming devices. The so called user experience is an electronic unicorn...


The hard drives are VERY easily replaceable up to 3TB in the Roamio and bolt lines, BTW.


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## davefred99 (Oct 31, 2004)

Reading thru all the posts from my original it seems that there are two camps on what Tivo should or should not be. Onside says its a DVR and anything else is just a bonus. The other says its a Multimedia device that delivers content as well as being a great DVR.
I a in the camp that says I don't care what Tivo used to be I just want it to become the best all around box to use for all types of content I want it can reasonably be. Tivos days as just a better DVR are limited at best. So it either moves into the future and maybe gives up some of its roots or will eventually become irrelevant.
I started this thread as a post about my frustrations using it as a cord cutters box using OTA + as much streaming content as possible. I am on the fence as to how well this is going to work out for me. It seems that I will at least have to use at least one other device for all my streaming needs because not everything is available on Tivo now nor due I think it will be in the future mostly because Tivo is not mainstream enough in the streaming world.
Other DVR platforms will eventually come out that I am afraid for cordcutters will make Tivo unnecessary. Silicondust is working on a network DVR solution that will integrate with Kodi or Plex as well as having apps for Roku, FireTv and most every other streaming device. I can see myself using this because I am already using Plex channels as an add on to Tivo where Opera comes up short. Maybe I am a minority here but I think so far Tivo is missing the boat and moving way to slow for me.


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## dstrong (Oct 22, 2015)

Returning to Tivo after 8 years of Time Warner/AT&T internet/phone/TV service. We moved two years ago and my "bundle" with U-Verse just ran out, resulting in an $80/month jump in my bill, for a total of just under $250/month (for all services). That includes 2 wireless boxes for other rooms but no premium channels. I just can't justify it any longer. 

The last thing I needed was to go to a Frankenstein setup, with multiple boxes and remotes, so I took delivery on Monday of the $50 Tivo OTA, bought an HDAntenna and signed up for HuluPlus and Netflix (already an Amazon Prime member). 

I've been running my two systems in parallel this week and my hope is to cancel my U-verse TV and phone (yes...we still have a landline!), resulting in a savings of about $140/month or $1,600/year.

To me, lowering the monthly budget is worth giving up a few things. I'll miss some sports but I'm not an addicted sports watcher. I follow pro cycling and may have to just follow that on my computer.

For me, going to limited OTA with streaming changes the paradigm on "how" I watch TV. I'll walk in to the family room, flip on the TV and just pick up a re-run in the middle...watch a little of it...then walk away. Or I'll come into the middle of "How it's made", watch a little, then walk away. 

With recording OTA and having streaming, it feels like I need to "commit" to watching a whole show (I know I can walk away and then come back). But I'm used to watching a "chunk" out of the middle of shows...not getting "invested" in a show and watching it from start to finish. Sure, there are shows I watch that way but if I'm cooking dinner and have 15 minutes to kill in the middle of the process, on comes the TV.

The other thing is my wife and I have a chance to catch up on some of the acclaimed series that have higher production value and more compelling stories than some of the stuff on the networks. Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, Dexter, etc. are series that we never watched because they were on premium channels...so now we can check them out.

All in all I like the setup so far. Two shows I can't seem to find a way to watch new episodes of are Homeland (Showtime) and Chopped (Food Network). It looks like Homeland lags about 3-4 weeks behind on Hulu and Chopped is about 2 seasons behind and is pay-to-see.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

dstrong said:


> Returning to Tivo after 8 years of Time Warner/AT&T internet/phone/TV service. We moved two years ago and my "bundle" with U-Verse just ran out, resulting in an $80/month jump in my bill, for a total of just under $250/month (for all services). That includes 2 wireless boxes for other rooms but no premium channels. I just can't justify it any longer. The last thing I needed was to go to a Frankenstein setup, with multiple boxes and remotes, so I took delivery on Monday of the $50 Tivo OTA, bought an HDAntenna and signed up for HuluPlus and Netflix (already an Amazon Prime member). I've been running my two systems in parallel this week and my hope is to cancel my U-verse TV and phone (yes...we still have a landline!), resulting in a savings of about $140/month or $1,600/year. To me, lowering the monthly budget is worth giving up a few things. I'll miss some sports but I'm not an addicted sports watcher. I follow pro cycling and may have to just follow that on my computer. For me, going to limited OTA with streaming changes the paradigm on "how" I watch TV. I'll walk in to the family room, flip on the TV and just pick up a re-run in the middle...watch a little of it...then walk away. Or I'll come into the middle of "How it's made", watch a little, then walk away. With recording OTA and having streaming, it feels like I need to "commit" to watching a whole show (I know I can walk away and then come back). But I'm used to watching a "chunk" out of the middle of shows...not getting "invested" in a show and watching it from start to finish. Sure, there are shows I watch that way but if I'm cooking dinner and have 15 minutes to kill in the middle of the process, on comes the TV. The other thing is my wife and I have a chance to catch up on some of the acclaimed series that have higher production value and more compelling stories than some of the stuff on the networks. Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, Dexter, etc. are series that we never watched because they were on premium channels...so now we can check them out. All in all I like the setup so far. Two shows I can't seem to find a way to watch new episodes of are Homeland (Showtime) and Chopped (Food Network). It looks like Homeland lags about 3-4 weeks behind on Hulu and Chopped is about 2 seasons behind and is pay-to-see.


Homeland should be available as well as all the shows from Showtime on their stand alone Streaming app that you can buy. It can also be linked to your Hulu account.


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## dstrong (Oct 22, 2015)

HarperVision said:


> Homeland should be available as well as all the shows from Showtime on their stand alone Streaming app that you can buy. It can also be linked to your Hulu account.


Thanks. Everything I've found says SHO through Hulu isn't available on Tivo.

I can't post the links because I don't have enough posts yet. Just add the w's at the beginning of the two below if you're curious.

hulu.com/help/articles/55190943

tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=529618


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## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

I've been a cord cutter for several years now. I do every so often sign up for a cable package but then generally cancel it after a month or so..

If anyone ever makes an all in one box they will corner the cord cutter market. Think about a half Tivo, half Roku all rolled up into one box. Whoever does it will make billions!

I am surprised Roku has not attempted this yet. Tivo is trying but the apps are scarce and some are complete garbage (I'm looking at you MLB.TV)..

Sling is a nice concept but lately they have been having massive issues. I use Sling because there are a few channels I can't get OTA or via an app. 1) AMC and 2) ESPN

I can get by without AMC as I only watch The Walking Dead and can just buy a season pass for it. ESPN is for the most part, impossible to get. Sure there are ways to get ESPN but they are not optimal and are very, very, very low quality SD feeds. Plus, I am not interested in stealing content. I have no problem paying for what I use..

I'd love one box that does it all. I'd not expect a Tivo to be able to record Sling channels as that is being unrealistic. I would like the app available though. Sure I'd need to balance what can be recorded from my antenna and what can't be recorded but I do that now anyways. The difference is now I need 2 boxes (a Roku and a Tivo)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

dstrong said:


> Thanks. Everything I've found says SHO through Hulu isn't available on Tivo.
> 
> I can't post the links because I don't have enough posts yet. Just add the w's at the beginning of the two below if you're curious.
> 
> ...


Right. That's anticipated as being remedied when a new Hulu app for TiVo is made available. (No clue when that might be, though.)


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

HarperVision said:


> The hard drives are VERY easily replaceable up to 3TB in the Roamio and bolt lines, BTW.


 But what will you watch the night it goes down? Or to use the car analogy, what will you drive if your one car is in the shop.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

davefred99 said:


> Reading thru all the posts from my original it seems that there are two camps on what Tivo should or should not be. Onside says its a DVR and anything else is just a bonus. The other says its a Multimedia device that delivers content as well as being a great DVR.
> I a in the camp that says I don't care what Tivo used to be I just want it to become the best all around box to use for all types of content I want it can reasonably be. Tivos days as just a better DVR are limited at best. So it either moves into the future and maybe gives up some of its roots or will eventually become irrelevant.
> I started this thread as a post about my frustrations using it as a cord cutters box using OTA + as much streaming content as possible. I am on the fence as to how well this is going to work out for me. It seems that I will at least have to use at least one other device for all my streaming needs because not everything is available on Tivo now nor due I think it will be in the future mostly because Tivo is not mainstream enough in the streaming world.
> Other DVR platforms will eventually come out that I am afraid for cordcutters will make Tivo unnecessary. Silicondust is working on a network DVR solution that will integrate with Kodi or Plex as well as having apps for Roku, FireTv and most every other streaming device. I can see myself using this because I am already using Plex channels as an add on to Tivo where Opera comes up short. Maybe I am a minority here but I think so far Tivo is missing the boat and moving way to slow for me.


 Most every other DVR is been a financial failure and too difficult to use. Then there are the upfront costs that freak out most people. Lastly most people still use cable and satellite, and many can't get OTA reception. Tivo can't miss a boat that doesn't exist.


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## davefred99 (Oct 31, 2004)

tenthplanet said:


> Most every other DVR is been a financial failure and too difficult to use. Then there are the upfront costs that freak out most people. Lastly most people still use cable and satellite, and many can't get OTA reception. Tivo can't miss a boat that doesn't exist.


I do not disagree about every other DVR option failing or being to difficult to use. I also agree that if you are a cable or Fios customer Tivo is the great too but the cost of entry has always been a roadblock.

Tivo has come out with the new Bolt line and marketed directly to the Cordcutter or Streaming market. Ira said they need to move in a different direction to survive. I agree but if its marketing to the OTA & Streaming content alternate to cable they have to do a better job of selling it and offering what that market wants. A low cost Box that can handle all forms of content and be quick to the market. As someone else said the Best of Tivo and the Best of Roku combined into one slick package.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

tenthplanet said:


> Most every other DVR is been a financial failure and too difficult to use. Then there are the upfront costs that freak out most people. Lastly most people still use cable and satellite, and many can't get OTA reception. Tivo can't miss a boat that doesn't exist.


I do not know of a DVR more difficult to use than the TiVo. Counter-intuitive user interface, poor support, and lack of a manual make it difficult for a new user to get accustomed to the 'TiVo Paradigm'.

The Channel Master DVR+ is coming up on its second anniversary. Does that make it a financial success? It comes with a very detailed manual which is completely unnecessary given its traditiona/intuitive user interface.

I use both on a daily basis and have been steeped in the TiVo Paradigm since May, so I know what I'm talking about. I agree with OP that it is not the premium product I hoped for.

I do, however, like very much that the TiVo is a decent streamer as well as a very good OTA DVR.

It would be very nice if the ABCD buttons on the remote could be assigned to apps. Instant access to Netflix, Prime, Plex, and Sling would be awesome. Of course this required adding Sling TV. Every OTA DVR ought to have access to a premium linear streaming service. Sling TV and/or PlayOn would be nice.

OnePass could be dramatically simplified. At least what happens when you press the record button could -- record manual, record this episode, record all episodes, record new episodes. No need to jump to the whole OnePass workflow.

When I press 5 on the remote, jump to 5.1 because analog has been gone for six years.

Add a sleep/inactivity timer to the Mini.

Auto discovery of new channels would be nice.


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## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

As an OTA DVR only, Tivo is fantastic in my opinion! I love it in that regard.

As I sit now I use the Tivo to record from my antenna and then switch over to the Roku for apps and streaming channels. Not a huge deal really as it's a matter of pressing a button on my Harmony remote.

But what I really want is one box to rule them all. I'll give Tivo credit as at least they are trying. I firmly believe that is the future of TV. 

Roku appears to have no interest in expanding it's boxes. Heck they could at least add an antenna input to the back of their boxes for OTA TV but they have not even done that.

Channel Master appears to be half heartedly trying. They have a few streaming channels that were recently added but they are channels that not a single person would watch. The CM DVR has no Netflix app, no Amazon app ect,..

While I am not overly happy with Tivo I will at least give them credit for trying. Tivo needs apps, as many as they can get and as fast as they can get them.


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## dstrong (Oct 22, 2015)

raqball said:


> ...it's a matter of pressing a button on my Harmony remote.


 :up::up::up:

Now THAT'S a product I continue to love! My Harmony is about 3 years old and every time I make a change to my system I fret about having to re-program the Harmony. Then I get connected, make the changes and it's so simple!

Adding my new Roamio OTA into the Harmony took about 5 minutes earlier this week.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Maybe Roku and TiVo should merge! (RoVo? TiKu?) They could produce boxes that marry TiVo's expertise in DVRs with Roku's streaming apps platform. (Not that I realistically see that ever happening though.) But they are sort of a natural fit for each other in that they're two consumer hardware players in the TV landscape that aren't aligned with bigger concerns trying to sell/bundle other services (eg Apple, Amazon, etc.) Both are content-neutral and are devoted to helping their customers access the content they want the way they want, which is something I appreciate about them.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

NashGuy said:


> Maybe Roku and TiVo should merge! (RoVo? TiKu?) They could produce boxes that marry TiVo's expertise in DVRs with Roku's streaming apps platform. (Not that I realistically see that ever happening though.) But they are sort of a natural fit for each other in that they're two consumer hardware players in the TV landscape that aren't aligned with bigger concerns trying to sell/bundle other services (eg Apple, Amazon, etc.) Both are content-neutral and are devoted to helping their customers access the content they want the way they want, which is something I appreciate about them.


As long as they don't use the Roku apps and use the Tivo ones instead. Most of the main streaming apps on the ROku are done better on other devices. The TiVo being one of them. Where Roku shines is in the number of apps available. But for Amazon, Netflix, and Vudu the Roku is one of the last boxes I want to use for them. Well at least Roku 3 and ROku 2. I don't have a Roku 4 yet.

At one point I used my Rokus for all those apps. But they were surpassed years ago by other devices when using most of the major apps.


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## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

aaronwt said:


> As long as they don't use the Roku apps and use the Tivo ones instead. Most of the main streaming apps on the ROku are done better on other devices. The TiVo being one of them. Where Roku shines is in the number of apps available. But for Amazon, Netflix, and Vudu the Roku is one of the last boxes I want to use for them. Well at least Roku 3 and ROku 2. I don't have a Roku 4 yet.
> 
> At one point I used my Rokus for all those apps. But they were surpassed years ago by other devices when using most of the major apps.


Have to disagree on this.

The Netflix, Hulu, Amazon and Vudu apps on my Roku demolish the ones on the Tivo in terms of speed, stability and GUI appeal..

MLB.TV? Please, don't even get me started on the Tivo app whereas the Roku app is flawless..

If you want something like Twit, again, it's not even close. Web Video Hotlist BLOWS!

I don't know what apps you have tried that are better on the Tivo but I have not seen a single one that's better, faster, more stable or has an improved GUI...


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

raqball said:


> Have to disagree on this.
> 
> The Netflix, Hulu, Amazon apps Vudu on my Roku demolish the ones one the Tivo in terms of speed and GUI appeal..
> 
> ...


\
Ok AMazon. FOr years the Roku was stuck with 720P encodes from Amazon. Not sure if it's still the case but a few months ago it was. I have no desire to stream 720P from Amazon when other devices stream the 1080P24/DD+ encodes. The Bolt launches Amazon quick.

Netflix. With the Bolt Netflix starts in a split second. But even if you do it from the Roamio, it has quick access to the stream info in the upper left. Plus the Roamio has 1080P24 output. The ROku3/2 does not. So the Netflix app again is better on the TiVo.

Vudu. Again the Roku is stuck with 1080P60 output. No 1080P24 option like other devices. Like the Roamio/Bolt. Again. Other devices have an advantage over the Roku. And again the Bolt launches Vudu quick.

I haven't used Hulu in a while so I can't comment on that. Hulu is stuck with 720P and stereo from all their devices, so when I use Hulu, it's pretty much a last resort. I'd rather pay for the content to watch in 1080P24/5.1 DD+ from Vudu or Amazon than watch it from Hulu in 720P/stereo. I only use Hulu when the content isn't available somewhere else.
So I can see using my Rokus for that. But if I'm watching my TiVo or BD players at the time, it's just quicker to use those devices for Hulu than to switch to the Rokus.


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## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

Okay I can't dispute your points because I am not a videophile / audiophile..

I am fine with 720p in most cases as HD to me is HD. I can't really tell a huge difference between 720p and 1080p to be honest.. I am sure some can and 720p might look like SD to them but for me it's fine..

When I compare these apps between my Roku and the Tivo I personally see no difference in video quality and I hear no difference audio quality whatsoever! Again, some might, I don't.. What I do see a difference in, is in how the apps load, look and overall stability of the feed.. On those points, the Roku demolishes the Roamio...


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## JayMan747 (Nov 10, 2008)

davefred99 said:


> As someone else said the Best of Tivo and the Best of Roku combined into one slick package.


Tivo and Roku should merge. They could share Technologies.
The diff would be that Tivo would record & stream, where Roku would only stream.


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## JayMan747 (Nov 10, 2008)

NashGuy said:


> Maybe Roku and TiVo should merge! (RoVo? TiKu?) They could produce boxes that marry TiVo's expertise in DVRs with Roku's streaming apps platform. (Not that I realistically see that ever happening though.) But they are sort of a natural fit for each other in that they're two consumer hardware players in the TV landscape that aren't aligned with bigger concerns trying to sell/bundle other services (eg Apple, Amazon, etc.) Both are content-neutral and are devoted to helping their customers access the content they want the way they want, which is something I appreciate about them.


Great idea, I posted the same thing, then read yours.+1..


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Lots of glass half empty naysayers in this thread. 

All I can say is I have now been using TiVo DVRs for 10 years to record OTA content. Back in 2005 it cost me $300 for a single tuner Series 2 with a 80MB hard drive. All summer you have been able to buy a Roamio OTA 4 tuner Series 5 with a 500 MB hard drive for the same $300 with lifetime. 

The fact that some of you want something other than a DVR doesn't in the least bit change the fact that the Roamio OTA is a great OTA DVR. 

Regarding cord cutting I am also one of those as I had dish when I bought my first TiVo - cut the pay TV cord 7-8 years ago. Since then have subbed to Hulu on and off and picked up Amazon prime a few weeks ago when they ran their sale. I have had and still have several streaming devices including a Roku and a HTPC with OTA tuners. Through all of it my TiVos have been and still are the main go to device for TV content. I would give up all my other devices before I would give up my TiVo and can see no viable way I could live without pay TV without it or at least another OTA DVR that is as good as it is - which doesn't exist as of today. 

The Bolt appears that it is even better than the Roamio and yes I know the brand new Bolt is more expensive - now - well everything is at release give it awhile. 

It is easier now than ever to "cut the cord" and still have access to a significant amount of free or nearly free legal content. TiVo makes access to a significant amount of that content very easy and certainly enhances the watch-ability of OTA content.


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## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

I think just above everyone has said the Tivo is a great DVR.. The topic being discussed is that it fails as an all in one cord cutter box. Then again, every other box on the market fails at this as well.

Tivo is trying though so I give them credit. They have correctly identified that apps and streaming are the future of TV. As a DVR to record from my antenna, the Tivo rocks! As a cord cutter box that gives me access to streaming content, it fails.. Well, so far it fails!

As a cord cutter I do not have a problem paying for content I want to watch. I pay for Sling TV to access ESPN and AMC. I pay for an MLB and NHL subscription. I can't watch any of these on my Tivo.. No ESPN, no AMC, no NHL and no MLB ect.. The only exception is MLB but that app is so terrible on the Roamio it is 150% unusable!


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