# Supergirl - "Pilot" S1E1 OAD 10/26/2015 ***SPOILERS***



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Yay!! Finally can watch this on real TV 


I like it. But now there is so much to digest. Not being a comic book guy and only knowing Superman from some movies, I don't know what fits into my "Superman" knowledge.

So, like, this Prison Ship? Comic book thing? I don't recall this from Superman movies. We had General Zod and his small gang come through the Phantom Zone. But that's it. What about this special alien lifeform taskforce? That's new to me, I think. Though didn't they create something in 'Man of Steel'??

Also, not sure if I like so many people already knowing who Kara is. Seems too much too soon. And also not liking a bunch of aliens and people from KRypton already on Earth. Are they giving Supes a hard time in this Supergirl universe? if they were, wouldn't everyone know about it? Seems like they must since t hey tried to crash Kara's sisters' plane. If they were operating like this, doesn't Supes know??


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## rloper (Mar 25, 2002)

I liked it. It was positive, upbeat, and worthy of a *Super* title. I've always had a soft spot for Kara Zor-El, and I think Melissa Benoist did a really good job with what can be a complex character. Looking forward to this show growing out of its pilot stage. Just remember how S1 of Smallville compared to the later seasons.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

I liked it, but I'm not sure that I care for the prison ship. It just seems like a way to manufacture villains for each week. Hopefully, they're all locked up by the season's end.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

I liked it but don't understand how they can have a ship full of super powered space prisoners originally locked up by Kryptonians and not have Superman get involved.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Azlen said:


> I liked it but don't understand how they can have a ship full of super powered space prisoners originally locked up by Kryptonians and not have Superman get involved.


That's what I don't get either

If this shipped landed when Kara Zor-El's ship landed, either the bad guys would have taken over Earth already or Supes would have already taken care of the bad guys.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Yes, I really dislike the prison ship. I kind of jumped at Hank Henshaw being in charge, too.

I'm puzzled by "Vartox" who is nothing like the comic character of the same name, and reminded me more of one of the members of the Fatal Five, a Legion of Superheroes foe.

"Otto Binder Bridge" is worth rewinding for, though. Otto Binder, for those who do not know, co-created Supergirl (and many, many, other characters, including Mary Marvel). A very nice touch.

I love Cat Grant. Absolutely wonderful.
James Olsen may take some getting used to. Interesting how they use him.

Winslow Schott (as in "Schott Down when he asked Kara for a date") was a surprise. Too tempting to assume we know his future, I suppose.

Kara... Kara was MAGNIFICENT. I love this portrayal.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Yes, Vartox did seem to be more like the Persuader. I just remembered that they first announced the villain in the pilot to be the obscure Wonder Woman villain, Lumberjack. Looks like they changed it up a bit after that but kept the axe.

http://www.cinemablend.com/m/television/Supergirl-Fight-Comic-Book-Villain-First-69763.html


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Ereth said:


> I'm puzzled by "Vartox" who is nothing like the comic character of the same name, and reminded me more of one of the members of the Fatal Five, a Legion of Superheroes foe.


He didn't look like Sean Connery.

The prison ship is kind of taken from Geoff Johns recent run on Action Comcis where he portrayed that part of a prison was caught in the Phantom Zone when Krypton exploded.

I also did question why if there's so many alien super criminals around, why isn't Superman involved in fighting them.
Or at least, the Green Lantern Corps.

National City looks suspiciously like Los Angeles though.
I wonder if regular production continues in Los Angeles.


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## jamesl (Jul 12, 2012)

awful, awful show


"I know you were sent here to save us"
LOL, no

"I know you were sent here to watch over him"
uh, again, no

prison ship 
so much, so wrong 
as others have already said, it just makes no sense 

and I said way back when the preview was show -- too many people know her identity 
it takes away the dual life tension 
one of the most interesting things about superman / supergirl and the other superheroes was that even their closest friends didn't know they were superheroes -- they only knew them as their secret identity 

it made a really interesting tension -- hiding your secret from those closest to you, not letting your friends get too close lest they come to danger -- it made the superhero be alone -- alone and fighting a battle against evil -- it made them more heroic 

now all these tv superheroes -- the flash, the arrow, supergirl -- all have friends to help them, to back them up, to supply them with intelligence -- it's all one big happy group  hey, let's catch some criminals today 

hey, need to find a super criminal ? no problem, we'll just use the government's super computer !

oh, you're getting your butt kicked ? no problem, we'll send in a helicopter with a rocket to save you !

really ? 
supergirl needed to be saved by military helicopters ?
  

oh, and let's not forget that supergirl needed her "rah, rah, cheerleader" to give her the emotional boost and confidence she needed to pour on the heat vision and win the final battle 
LOL

ridiculous, horrible concept 

oh, and the "female perry white" ...
ugh 
every single one of her speeches was so tiresome 
"she'll be forever linked to blah, blah, blah"
"you've interrupted a termination speech" 
what a tiresome, boring character

the only good thing about this show was the special effects 
not great, but not bad for a tv series 

seeing her catch the airplane in the beginning and fly it down and crawl out of the water onto the wing with the spotlight shining on her was pretty cool :up:


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

The reason all the TV superheroes end up with so many people who know their identity is the needs of exposition.

In a comic book, you can read the characters thoughts. They can have soliloquies about what they are thinking, what they are feeling, what they are planning, etc. But on TV you can't do that. No omniscient reader here. No seeing inside their heads.

So they have to have someone to talk to, so the things inside their heads come out of their mouths and the audience can know what they are thinking/feeling/planning.

It's a necessity of the medium. For that matter, it's the same reason Holmes has Watson. There has to be someone to explain the brilliant deduction to, or there's no way to explain it to the reader.


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## alpacaboy (Oct 29, 2004)

I don't think I really gave her(or her whole generation of new kids) a chance on Glee, but i really like her as Supergirl.

I hope all the villains aren't Kryptonian with the same powers. Actually, I couldn't tell - was the prison ship full of Kryptonians? It seemed like this guy had super strength and maybe flight, but didn't whip out heat vision or anything.

The initial trailer had too much of a rom com vibe, and had me worried. But I think that aspect isn't as bad as I thought and Melissa Benoist is really really likable.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

I was excited to see Wayne Rigsby again (Owain Yeoman). But I guess he won't be a recurring character...

And I also got a kick out of Dean Cain and Helen Slater's brief appearance.


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## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

Based on the first episode I don't think the writing will be up to the acting. Good cast, good chemistry, ridiculous story line.

Also thought the inclusion of Dean Cain & Helen Slater was great idea / nod to the past.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

Didn't realize that was Helen Slater at first. Dean Cain I recognized immediately.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

I thought it was just OK.

I think they tried to ram too much into the pilot and if they had taken the exposition slower, I would have liked it more. Particularly going from "I haven't flown in years" - to fighting a super alien villain within 15 minutes.

I also could do without all the comparing her to Superman and then not having Superman appear. If he is going to give her material for her cape - why would he send Jimmy Olsen to do it? He would do it himself. Not to mention I don't even know what Jimmy Olsen is doing in the show - he seems so intrinsic to Superman story (but then again I don't know the Supergirl comics).


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

I was underwhelmed. Didn't like the video look. The prison ship is weak as a plot point. The sister? Can do without her. The writing was stagy and juvenile. The avoidance of using the name superman is extremely awkward. 

We will see if it finds its feet.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

I heard David Bianculli's review on NPR this morning. Seems the only thing he liked was Calista Flockhart.


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

I think they're worried that if they mention Superman too much, audience will expect to see him sooner or later.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I liked it a lot. I would have preferred to not have had super villains and a secret government anti-alien organization in the pilot though. Give it a couple of episodes before kicking it up a notch.

In the comics, has Supergirl ever existed in a Superman-less world?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

dtle said:


> I think they're worried that if they mention Superman too much, audience will expect to see him sooner or later.


Another problem is that Henry Cavill isn't going to fly halfway around the world to do a Supergirl cameo, and they wouldn't want to use somebody else...


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

We are in. Enjoyed it enough. My 12 year old daughters loved it.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Another problem is that Henry Cavill isn't going to fly halfway around the world to do a Supergirl cameo, and they wouldn't want to use somebody else...


An even bigger problem is that DC probably would not give permission to use the character, no matter who plays him, more than the nods they gave him in the pilot.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

This was a generally well-reviewed pilot, so I'm surprised at how dumb I found most of it to be. It was sort of the worst tendencies of Arrow and The Flash dialed up to eleven for an hour. That said, I really liked Melissa Benoist in the lead role, and Berlanti & Co. do have a good track record for making solid, entertaining superhero shows in spite of the weak points inherent in the genre and those that crew brings to their series. So while I don't really like the season setup we've been given here, nor most of the character choices, I'll stay with it for a while.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

HOw did I miss Dean Cain? I never watched Louis and Clark, but I know he played Supes there.



ANywhooo.... I guess I was expecting her main nemesis to be a Lex Luthor type of person. Some "regular" human.

Melissa Benoist was on Stephen Colbert last night. I'll have to watch that


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

I don't mind the aunt (mothers twin sister) as the big bad but the prison ship was ham handed. 

The dialog has to get a lot better.


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

Why does she need the glasses? If all this time she wasn't a super hero trying to hide her identity ( badly) like her cousin?


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## Drewster (Oct 26, 2000)

/subscribe


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

TIVO_GUY_HERE said:


> Why does she need the glasses? If all this time she wasn't a super hero trying to hide her identity ( badly) like her cousin?


so she can be nerdy hot.


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## MikeCC (Jun 19, 2004)

loubob57 said:


> I was excited to see Wayne Rigsby again (Owain Yeoman). But I guess he won't be a recurring character...
> 
> And I also got a kick out of Dean Cain and Helen Slater's brief appearance.


:up::up:


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Avoiding using the name "Superman" is _really_ annoying and awkward. It must be trademarks or something: I can see no other justification for such horrible writing.

I agree with others: they tried to stuff so much into a single episode that it felt very overburdened and you couldn't really connect with any of the characters. The writing for Kara's emotional moments (with her sister, with her mother's hologram, etc.) was just bad. Like an SNL sketch.

Calista Flockhart was definitely the best part: not because of acting but because her character was better written (but that kind of character is probably easy to write well).

A big "meh" from me. My wife asked me "is this over yet?" after about 40 minutes. If we weren't waiting for enough of Fargo to buffer before we started watching it, we probably would have bailed. But I haven't deleted my SP yet.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

It was a pilot, so I can see why they had to cram in stuff. Like meeting Kara and then see her become Supergirl and then have a big fight with a big bad guy. If you don't have her beocome Supergirl in the pilot, does a network actually pick up the series?


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I'm guessing Supergirl Halloween costumes, the wholesome and the slutty, will be a big thing this weekend.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

cheesesteak said:


> I'm guessing Supergirl Halloween costumes, the wholesome and the slutty, will be a big thing this weekend.


Speaking of cosutmes, I was expecting the "let's pick a costume" scene would have included more variety. Really, we had two. The first one, then the one with the red skirt. That one was just tweaked slightly a few times to arrive at a final costume. (proper cape, the boots, the family shield on the crest, etc.)


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

The pilot was weak. It featured bad writing, painfully bad dialogue, and way too much moody music being used in a effort to stir our emotions. About the only thing I liked was Melissa Benoist. She did a good job and is super cute.

My main issue with the show is the same problem I have with Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. That show exists in the Avengers universe, but doesn't feature any of the actual Avengers. Similarly, this show exists in the Superman universe, but there is no Superman. Given how quickly Superman can fly around the planet, it simply doesn't make sense that he wouldn't help his cousin out.


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

Having it start at 7:30 I thought 'cool this is only a 30 minute show, I can take it for that long...... oops


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

TIVO_GUY_HERE said:


> Having it start at 7:30 I thought 'cool this is only a 30 minute show, I can take it for that long...... oops


And I was thinking it must be 90 minutes. Score! Oops


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

Well, I did like seeing Dean Cain and "original" Supergirl Helen Slater as the adoptive parents.

I didn't believe Calista Flockhart as a cookie cutter Alpha Female. Has she been out of acting for a while?

I'm not that familiar with the Supergirl backstory, but I'm pretty sure she was from Argo City and didn't launch with Kal-El. (I guess they were trying to save time and money by blending the two incidents).

I'm glad she didn't keep those little red disco boots. That would have been painful.

I'll stick with it for a few more eps, but so far, this show seems more suited to a Saturday morning slot than prime time.

IMHO.


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## Flop (Dec 2, 2005)

Supergirl definitely could have put better use to the extra 30 minutes available than anything Scorpion could ever hope to achieve.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

cmontyburns said:


> An even bigger problem is that DC probably would not give permission to use the character, no matter who plays him, more than the nods they gave him in the pilot.


Interviews leading up to broadcast regarding "him" have said that


Spoiler



they are not targeting a specific Supes, i.e. not Henry Cavill, Brandon, Reeve's, etc, they intend to pick and choose which aspects they grab from the various versions and that other than that shot last night we won't be seeing her cousin.


 But more importantly is that they want this show about her, not him.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Why did they have to have Superman in this universe at all? They could've re-written her story to be the one saved from Krypton.

I know, the fanatics would've gone berserk with their outrage. But really, that would keep us from asking where is Superman every time she gets into trouble.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I actually would be disappointed if Superman kept showing up to help [save] Supergirl.

But I think the way they setup the story line with the prison ship and all the bad guys from Krypton (and elsewhere??) kind of makes people wonder where Superman is in all of this. I think if they had NOT done that, it would be easier to have a story line where Superman isn't needed all the time.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

RGM1138 said:


> I'm not that familiar with the Supergirl backstory, but I'm pretty sure she was from Argo City and didn't launch with Kal-El. (I guess they were trying to save time and money by blending the two incidents).


 The story changed with a retcon a while back. The cbs take is what the comics did.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

TonyD79 said:


> The story changed with a retcon a while back. The cbs take is what the comics did.


I hate it when they keep messing with my childhood memories.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Hey, be grateful they didn't go with the "Supergirl is an Angel who is inhabiting the body of a human" storyline. This particular version is way better (IMHO) than that.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

I'm not going to complain about the iconic version, but earth-angel Supergirl was by far the best run she's ever had in the comics (and would've made a pretty awesome show.)


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

Ereth said:


> Hey, be grateful they didn't go with the "Supergirl is an Angel who is inhabiting the body of a human" storyline. This particular version is way better (IMHO) than that.





realityboy said:


> I'm not going to complain about the iconic version, but earth-angel Supergirl was by far the best run she's ever had in the comics (and would've made a pretty awesome show.)


Uhh oh....NERD FIGHT!


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Does Kara not have a sister (an Earth sister) in the comics?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> It was a pilot, so I can see why they had to cram in stuff. Like meeting Kara and then see her become Supergirl and then have a big fight with a big bad guy. If you don't have her beocome Supergirl in the pilot, does a network actually pick up the series?


Smallville ran for 9 seasons and he didn't become Superman until the last episode of the last season.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Dan203 said:


> Smallville ran for 9 seasons and he didn't become Superman until the last episode of the last season.


Yeah but that show was called Smallville, not Superman.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Also, you haven't flown in 5 years? Really? WTF? You have super powers and can fly and you just got bored with it or something?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I liked the show. It drug in a few spots, but overall I enjoyed it and I'm looking forward to the rest of the season.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

vertigo235 said:


> Also, you haven't flown in 5 years? Really? WTF? You have super powers and can fly and you just got bored with it or something?


no kidding. Flying is like the coolest super power ever.

how can you not do that? Even if it's just for fun.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

I'm just wondering when the OP is going to fix the thread title.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JYoung said:


> I'm just wondering when the OP is going to fix the thread title.


It's much too late, isn't it? Or have they changed the thing where editing the OP title only changes the thread title for a few minutes?

I tried reporting it, but nothing happened.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

what's wrong?

Is it that Super Girl is really one word? Unlike Super Bowl?


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Unlike Super Bowl, but much like Superman.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)




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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

gweempose said:


> My main issue with the show is the same problem I have with Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. That show exists in the Avengers universe, but doesn't feature any of the actual Avengers. Similarly, this show exists in the Superman universe, but there is no Superman. Given how quickly Superman can fly around the planet, it simply doesn't make sense that he wouldn't help his cousin out.


You could say the same thing about every superhero show, movie or comic.

-smak-


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> what's wrong?
> 
> Is it that Super Girl is really one word? Unlike Super Bowl?


I think it's helpful to have the name of the show correct in the thread title to aid in future searchs.

Any programmer will tell you that "Super Girl" is not equal to "Supergirl".


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

JYoung said:


> I think it's helpful to have the name of the show correct in the thread title to aid in future searchs.
> 
> Any programmer will tell you that "Super Girl" is not equal to "Supergirl".


yes.. Indeed. I know the feeling. I tried to search for "True Detective" the other day and had troubles.

Sorry about that. Glad it's fixed now


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> Is it that Super Girl is really one word? Unlike Super Bowl?


Supergirl so far is much, MUCH better than Super Bowl. Super Bowl hardly ever has a decent cast, and when it does, they tend to turn in subpar performances.

Then again, being from Minnesota I might have a different perspective than the national audience...


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

So, how come Kara Zor-El has a first name and Kal-El does not?


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> So, how come Kara Zor-El has a first name and Kal-El does not?


Visiting a family tree of Superman, It looks like the males get their dad's last name and a new (sometimes) first name. The daughters get a first name followed by their dad's first-last name.

Zor-El is Kara's dad. So it's Kara Zor-El.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Both have first names. Kara is her first name. Kal is his. Men supplement their first name with their house, so he is Kal-El, or Kal of the house of El. Women supplement their first name with the names of their fathers, because Krypton is a patriarchal society. She is Kara Zor-El. Zor-El isn't her last name, it's the name of her father, who is Zor of the house of El.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Most characters got Kara's name pronounced correctly ("Car-uh"), but Kat kept calling her "Care-uh." I wonder if that was intentional.


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

Peter000 said:


> Most characters got Kara's name pronounced correctly ("Car-uh"), but Kat kept calling her "Care-uh." I wonder if that was intentional.


I'm sure it was intentional, to further the characterization of her as a stereotypical bad boss. Didn't Kara correct her once (but she wasn't listening/didn't care)?

I kept looking at the little scar next to Melissa Benoist's eyebrow. I'm just going to assume there was a Phantom-Zone-related injury. Wonder if we'll get a flashback.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

trainman said:


> I'm sure it was intentional, to further the characterization of her as a stereotypical bad boss. Didn't Kara correct her once (but she wasn't listening/didn't care)?
> 
> *I kept looking at the little scar next to Melissa Benoist's eyebrow.* I'm just going to assume there was a Phantom-Zone-related injury. Wonder if we'll get a flashback.


ha!

Me too.


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

LOL Me too


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> no kidding. Flying is like the coolest super power ever. how can you not do that? Even if it's just for fun.


Or while sleeping. (Smallville reference)


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Ereth said:


> Both have first names. Kara is her first name. Kal is his. Men supplement their first name with their house, so he is Kal-El, or Kal of the house of El. Women supplement their first name with the names of their fathers, because Krypton is a patriarchal society. She is Kara Zor-El. Zor-El isn't her last name, it's the name of her father, who is Zor of the house of El.


That's how I know it but IMDb (assuming in the credits), have her mother as Alura Zor-El. I don't recall, do wives take their husbands full name when married? FWIW, Wikipedia has her as Alura In-Ze.


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## tigercat74 (Aug 7, 2004)

Was I the only one who thought she should have chosen the first costume?


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

tigercat74 said:


> Was I the only one who thought she should have chosen the first costume?




I do wonder about the skirt. I would think that would get in the way or something


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

tigercat74 said:


> Was I the only one who thought she should have chosen the first costume?


Dunno, but I've been wondering where her programmer buddy got his hands on "[whatever] [whatever] polymer" fabric.


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

trainman said:


> I'm sure it was intentional, to further the characterization of her as a stereotypical bad boss. Didn't Kara correct her once (but she wasn't listening/didn't care)?


Yes, she did correct her in a kinda under-her-breath type of correction.

And it was about as effective as a fart in a hurricane.

--Carlos V.


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## Gerryex (Apr 24, 2004)

Ereth said:


> Both have first names. Kara is her first name. Kal is his. Men supplement their first name with their house, so he is Kal-El, or Kal of the house of El. Women supplement their first name with the names of their fathers, because Krypton is a patriarchal society. She is Kara Zor-El. Zor-El isn't her last name, it's the name of her father, who is Zor of the house of El.


Wasn't Zor-El Kal-El's father and isn't Kara Kal-El's cousin so how could her father be Zor-El?

Gerry


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Kal-Els father is Jor-El. Zor-El is his brother.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Unbeliever said:


> Yes, she did correct her in a kinda under-her-breath type of correction.
> 
> And it was about as effective as a fart in a hurricane.


I suspect that was more for our sake than hers...she had probably long since given up.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

jsmeeker said:


> It was a pilot, so I can see why they had to cram in stuff. Like meeting Kara and then see her become Supergirl and then have a big fight with a big bad guy. If you don't have her beocome Supergirl in the pilot, does a network actually pick up the series?


I would have been fine if it had been her deciding to become Supergirl and doing some more stopping bank robbers and saving babies first.

Saving her sister on the plane was plenty. I agree with whoever said they could have saved the alien government agency and the alien bad guys for later...


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

I was 100% confused on the person in hologram form in the mini fortress type thing, and the person at the end.

Aren't they the same person/actress?

-smak-


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

The person in the hologram was Kara's mother. The person at the end was Kara's aunt (I think). But I am not sure if they are played by the same actress.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> The person in the hologram was Kara's mother. The person at the end was Kara's aunt (I think). But I am not sure if they are played by the same actress.


They are. Laura Benanti. That's why I posted (twin sister) earlier.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

TonyD79 said:


> They are. Laura Benanti. That's why I posted (twin sister) earlier.


Thanks. I missed the part where Kara's mother had a TWIN. 

How come this was the first time Kara had ever seen the hologram? Why was Alex holding the thing back?? Didn't Kal-El see his parents well before he actually become Superman?? (really, ging by movies here)


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

loubob57 said:


> I heard David Bianculli's review on NPR this morning. Seems the only thing he liked was Calista Flockhart.


Seriously? He liked Calista Flockhart? The *only* think he liked was Calista Flockhart?

I know this is "National City" and all that, but when Kara went into work, I couldn't help thinking that I had been dropped into an alternate-universe version of _Ugly Betty_.

Melissa Benoist is utterly charming, just like America Ferrera was -- but
Calista Flockhart is nowhere near as deliciously wicked and nasty as Vanessa Williams was.



vertigo235 said:


> Also, you haven't flown in 5 years? Really? WTF? You have super powers and can fly and you just got bored with it or something?


More likely she was told Not To for her own protection, and she went along with it. Girls are socialized that way.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

So, in the start, we see Kara land on Earth. Supes comes down and is there. He takes her to the Danvers. How does Supes know the Danvers? What was "special" or "important" about them?


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> So, in the start, we see Kara land on Earth. Supes comes down and is there. He takes her to the Danvers. How does Supes know the Danvers? What was "special" or "important" about them?


According to Kara's narration, the Danvers (Jeremiah and Eliza according to IMDB and not Fred and Sylvia) were scientists who helped out Superman before with his powers.

Since I'm guessing that Ma and Pa Kent weren't available, Supes wanted to entrust Kara to a good family which he felt were the Danvers.

BTW, count me in the group who felt that the pilot could have used some more time.
It probably would have been more effective to supersize Supergirl instead of Scorpion.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Thanks. I guess I missed that part in the narration. Figured it was one of those things where you had to have read the comics.


And it's Pa Kent dead by now anyway??


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

murgatroyd said:


> I know this is "National City" and all that, but when Kara went into work, I couldn't help thinking that I had been dropped into an alternate-universe version of _Ugly Betty_.


I was thinking _The Devil Wears Prada_.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

pdhenry said:


> I was thinking _The Devil Wears Prada_.


But, with none of Meryl Streep's gravitas.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> I do wonder about the skirt. I would think that would get in the way or something


 I don't see how that skirt could get in the way of anything...



Cainebj said:


> I would have been fine it had been her deciding to become Supergirl and doing some more stopping bank robbers and saving babies first.
> 
> Saving her sister on the plane was plenty. I agree with whoever said they could have saved the alien government agency and the alien bad guys for later...


+100 to both these sentiments. Mine exactly, as well. Heck I'd like to see some flying practice, a la Ralph Hinkley.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

I finally got a chance to watch the show. I liked it more than I disliked it.

I love the choice of actress for Supergirl. She plays the part well and captures what I always thought Supergirl would be like. Cat Grant is VERY fun! Kara's friend (I haven't memorized all the names yet) plays off of Kara well. And again, I love the portrayal of Supergirl.

One thing I'm iffy on is Jimmy Olsen. I understand that since Superman's been around for a little while now, Jimmy shouldn't be the young kid photographer and would be a little older, but the personality doesn't seem like what I would have imagined. On the plus side, he looks great in a t-shirt.

Also, Hank Henshaw was a bit of a surprise (I remember him from the comics).

As for the stuff I didn't like.... I thought the writing was weak. I didn't think it was up to par with Arrow or Flash. Flash can get kinda hokey at times, but it still is entertaining and works in a campy sort of way. Here, some plot devices seemed too contrived (like Kara's aunt, which I don't even like thinking about). The prison arc storyline? I'm not a fan of it. Are we to believe that there's a whole colony of supervillains, some of them Kryptonian, hanging out on Earth? Why didn't they just expose themselves when they realized they're super powered? And I'm kind of put off by her sister being a special forces agent.

Speaking of which, how did the agency know about Kara? Did Superman tell them? Did her sister tell them? They don't trust her and think she's dangerous, but left her alone all that time. Maybe they're afraid of pissing off Superman?

And someone should at least be allowed to say "Superman".

So I like some of it, but other parts still seem weak. Unfortunately, I think what's weak can only be fixed by getting better writers, and I don't think that's going to happen too soon.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

I haven't watched the aired version yet, but noticed a lot of comments wondering why they didn't mention Superman by name. In the leaked version, they did. Did that change in the aired version?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

David Platt said:


> I haven't watched the aired version yet, but noticed a lot of comments wondering why they didn't mention Superman by name. In the leaked version, they did. Did that change in the aired version?


I feel like I remember them mentioning his name maybe two or three times in the leaked version, but I don't remember exactly when in the show it happened.

But I specifically was looking out for mentions by name when I watched the aired pilot, and it definitely only happened once, at the beginning when we also see him.


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## Drewster (Oct 26, 2000)

I loved it. Some weaker bits here and there, but it's an effective pilot. I particularly liked how her _super_ adventures emoted her effort. And, most importantly, it did one essential job:

It made me believe a girl can fly. :up: :up:


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## Fl_Gulfer (May 27, 2005)

It was OK but that is it, I didn't care for the (We have a army of Kriptos on earth) In the first episode. And Calista Flockhart needs a Sammich.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Drewster said:


> It made me believe a girl can fly. :up: :up:


I will say this: the special effects, especially the flying but also the heat vision, etc., were REALLY well done. Definitely my favourite parts. So for me: casting/acting :up:, special effects :up: :up:, plot *meh*, and writing :down:


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

David Platt said:


> I haven't watched the aired version yet, but noticed a lot of comments wondering why they didn't mention Superman by name. In the leaked version, they did. Did that change in the aired version?


They mentioned it once in the aired version.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

So, it changed between the "leaked" pilot and the one that aired on TV? From multiple times to once?


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## Gerryex (Apr 24, 2004)

Ereth said:


> Kal-Els father is Jor-El. Zor-El is his brother.


YES!!!! You are absolutely right, and I should be ashamed of myself as I was an avid Superman comic reader. Granted I didn't read very many Supergirl comics but I did read some and I DID know that her father was _ZOR_-El and Superman's father was _JOR_-El, Zor-El's brother!!

Gerry


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> So, it changed between the "leaked" pilot and the one that aired on TV? From multiple times to once?


No, I think it only changed in your memories. My recollection of the leaked version was that "he" was referred to multiple times just as "he", and it irritated me at the time. I even located my original post from the thread about the leaked version:



getreal said:


> I enjoyed this more than I thought I would. Jimmy Olson (???) looks like HE could be a superhero. And why do they avoid uttering "Superman" or "Clark Kent" and say only "he"?? That was pretty off-putting.


A bunch of us had made the same observation then, and it comes up again now, so it is still an issue which stands out to viewers.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

getreal said:


> No, I think it only changed in your memories. My recollection of the leaked version was that "he" was referred to multiple times just as "he", and it irritated me at the time. I even located my original post from the thread about the leaked version:
> 
> .


I never watched the leaked version. Was just going on what others had said about when the word "Superman" was used and not used.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Okay, so since there's some confusion and hazy memories all around, I went and got the leaked version and watched it on the laptiop simultaneously with the aired version playing on the tivo. In both versions, they only say "Superman" once, in the beginning where they also show him taking young Kara's hand after her pod arrives. So that's confirmed now. I thought I remembered the leaked version having one or two more instances, but apparently not.

There's also a handful of minor differences. I've included them here in case anyone cares. Spoilered for length.



Spoiler



In the leaked version, on Krypton, before sending Kara off, her mother gives Kara her necklace. Those few seconds are cut from the aired version; one moment Kara doesn't have a necklace, then suddenly she does.

In the leaked version, right after the engine falls off the plane, the pilot says "we are going down, we are going down. flight attendants, brace for impact". In the aired version, it's just "flight attendants, brace for impact".

In the leaked version, after Kara flies away after saving the plane, they cut to the "S" swooshing onto the screen. In the aired version, it's the same thing, but with the title "Supergirl" underneath.

The aired version has credits running during the next scene in Kara's apartment with her sister. The leaked version does not.

In the leaked version, on her way through the office, with the news playing in the backgorund a coworker stops Kara and says "Oh my god, Kara, you're a lifesaver." She stops, thinking she's been identified, and he continues "Thanks for doing those comps[?] for me, Kat said I did great work." and she replies "Oh, sure, Myoshi. No big deal." That's cut from the aired version.

In the leaked version, the guy telling Vartox what to do says "You are instructed to continue your orders to eliminate the human operatives". In the aired version, "to continue your orders" is cut out.

First fight with Vartox, in the leaked version she says "Fort Roz? What does that have to do with her?" In the aired version, it's just "Fort Roz?"

In the aired version, after the tech found Vartox on satellite, Supergirl says "Vartox said he was ready to start killing humans". In the leaked version, she also says "Looks like tonights the night."

Also, There are a bunch of very minor editing differences, little snippets, one or two seconds long, of dialogue-free shots taken out here and there.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Thanks for going to all that effort! :up:


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Yeah really, that was actually cool reading the differences.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

They seem pretty minor, though I wonder if there is any significance to any of them.


Really, this is one reason I don't watch pilots "leaked" well in advance. I want to watch the real one.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Thanks, busyba. I didn't see the leaked version, either. It's interesting what changed, though it all seems pretty minor.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

jsmeeker said:


> They seem pretty minor, though I wonder if there is any significance to any of them.
> 
> Really, this is one reason I don't watch pilots "leaked" well in advance. I want to watch the real one.


That happens with pilots. I remember that the CSI: Cyber aired pilot had the wrong closed captions for the Who theme song, and the video captions didn't even sync with the audio.

There were a couple other problems that I don't remember right now. Sometimes, there's a last minute rush to get the finished product to the networks and not everything is as well QC'd as the following episodes.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> They seem pretty minor, though I wonder if there is any significance to any of them.


My guess is that all the cuts are simply for time. IIRC, there isn't a single difference that involved _adding_ time to the aired version.

Some of the small dialogue edits, maybe they just thought it sounded better tightened up, but I don't think any of them were for plot or arc purposes.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

The necklace business feels like something that would have had a callback later in the same episode, and the callback was either cut or never shot, so later when they were looking for places to save time, they decided to cut the setup as well.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

The bit with Mioshi that got cut, in the aired version you actually see him in the background (on the left side of the screen, in a dark suit, with his back to the camera) and he turns towards the camera and looks at Kara, but the shot cuts right there a split-second before he starts talking.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

Ereth said:


> Both have first names. Kara is her first name. Kal is his. Men supplement their first name with their house, so he is Kal-El, or Kal of the house of El. Women supplement their first name with the names of their fathers, because Krypton is a patriarchal society. She is Kara Zor-El. Zor-El isn't her last name, it's the name of her father, who is Zor of the house of El.


Exactly, just like how I am Zor from the house of Dude


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

busyba said:


> The necklace business feels like something that would have had a callback later in the same episode, and the callback was either cut or never shot, so later when they were looking for places to save time, they decided to cut the setup as well.


That is so weird. I could have sworn I saw Kara's mother give her the necklace along with a few words on what it was about. But I just checked the recording again, and it's just just as you said, one second it's not there, next shot, it is.

And this is the only version I've seen.

Unless, I saw a clip somewhere else and that was in the scene.


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

I saw the leaked version a couple months ago and debated watching the aired version. I'm glad I watched the aired version. Nice refresher for what was going on.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

RGM1138 said:


> That is so weird. I could have sworn I saw Kara's mother give her the necklace along with a few words on what it was about. But I just checked the recording again, and it's just just as you said, one second it's not there, next shot, it is.
> 
> And this is the only version I've seen.
> 
> Unless, I saw a clip somewhere else and that was in the scene.


In the leaked version, there's no dialogue regarding the necklace, but before she gives it to her, the mom pauses and gets a look on her face like she's making a specific decision in that moment to give it to her and that it's important.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Why wouldn't she give it to her? The alternative is having it be lost when the planet explodes.

One thing I didn't understand is why Kara was sent to protect Jor-El? What was so special about Jor-El that he needed protection? Just because he was a baby and Kara's parents want to send her to safety as well?


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Amnesia said:


> Why wouldn't she give it to her? The alternative is having it be lost when the planet explodes.
> 
> One thing I didn't understand is why Kara was sent to protect Jor-El? What was so special about Jor-El that he needed protection? Just because he was a baby and Kara's parents want to send her to safety as well?


Do you mean Kal-El?


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

Amnesia said:


> Just because he was a baby and Kara's parents want to send her to safety as well?


I think that is probably enough


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Yeah. You send an infant to another world, you kind of don't expect it to survive. You send a caretaker to take care of that infant until it can be self-sufficient.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Ereth said:


> Yeah. You send an infant to another world, you kind of don't expect it to survive. You send a caretaker to take care of that infant until it can be self-sufficient.


Sure.. though I still think the idea of sending a pre-teen to do the job is a bit unusual.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> Sure.. though I still think the idea of sending a pre-teen to do the job is a bit unusual.


They didn't have time to make rockets for full-grown people. Otherwise Jor-El could have come, or Lara.

Zor-Els rocket was a modification of Jor-Els, which was designed for baby Kal-El. Expanding it to fit their daughter, and taking additional fuel to compensate for her weight, solved several problems, not the least of which is that any parent would gladly sacrifice themselves for their child to live.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Ereth said:


> They didn't have time to make rockets for full-grown people. Otherwise Jor-El could have come, or Lara.
> 
> Zor-Els rocket was a modification of Jor-Els, which was designed for baby Kal-El. Expanding it to fit their daughter, and taking additional fuel to compensate for her weight, solved several problems, not the least of which is that any parent would gladly sacrifice themselves for their child to live.


Ok.. I guess it does make sense.


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## Gerryex (Apr 24, 2004)

I have a question on Kara's origin story. If I recall correctly from the original comics (from the 60's or early 70's) there was no story about Kara being sent to look after Kal-El. I was just that Jor-El's brother, Zor-El, shared his brothers prediction that Krypton would be destroyed and similar to Jor-El built a ship to carry Kara to Earth. Also there was no mention in the comics about Kara's ship getting trapped in the Phantom Zone. I forget what the reason they gave in the comics for the age difference between Kara and Kal-El once they got to Earth.

So am I correct that Kara's backstory is just for the TV show and not cannon from the comics?

Gerry


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## jamesl (Jul 12, 2012)

completely different 
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Kara_Zor-El_(Earth-One)

that's why I LOL'ed so much in my first post

it seems they may be kind of / sort of following one of the many DC reboots 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supergirl#Original_character:_Kara

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Kara_Zor-El_(Prime_Earth)


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

busyba said:


> In the leaked version, there's no dialogue regarding the necklace, but before she gives it to her, the mom pauses and gets a look on her face like she's making a specific decision in that moment to give it to her and that it's important.


Maybe I saw something similar in another show or movie, and just blended the scenes in my mind.

It's a ***** gettin' old.


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## Drewster (Oct 26, 2000)

Wayall... Supergirl has had many origins.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Thanks to busyba for being such a busybee & clearing up the issue of "He who apparently must not be mentioned by name". 

It seems the edits for time would earn them at least one more commercial (i.e., mo' money) on the intended air date.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Gerryex said:


> I have a question on Kara's origin story. If I recall correctly from the original comics (from the 60's or early 70's) there was no story about Kara being sent to look after Kal-El. I was just that Jor-El's brother, Zor-El, shared his brothers prediction that Krypton would be destroyed and similar to Jor-El built a ship to carry Kara to Earth. Also there was no mention in the comics about Kara's ship getting trapped in the Phantom Zone. I forget what the reason they gave in the comics for the age difference between Kara and Kal-El once they got to Earth.
> 
> So am I correct that Kara's backstory is just for the TV show and not cannon from the comics?
> 
> Gerry


That was true in the 1960s. That Supergirl died in "Crisis on Infinite Earths" (with the rather famous cover), and all of DC continuity was reset when that was over. There was no Supergirl then. Later, we got one, but she wasn't Kryptonian, but an Earth-Angel. When DC decided to return Kara to her Kryptonian origins, after the Earth-Angel Supergirl, the new origin was similar to the one we get in the TV show (though she spoke no English, did not grow up with the Danvers, and met Superman right away, she WAS sent as his caretaker and her ship was caught in a <sciency-sounding-explanation-that-makes-little-sense> and caused her to arrive long after her baby cousin had grown into an adult.

The TV show mixes several of these incarnations. In this, she's clearly not going to be trained by Wonder Woman, but instead grew up in the Danvers household. Her Earth parents in the TV show do not have the same names as her parents in any comic series.

They've taken bits and pieces of several incarnations and made their own take. Which, I think, is probably the only way to do it. TV is a different medium than comics and being tied to 50 years of continuity is a bad starting point.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Do the comics (Supergirl or Superman) give background on the Danvers and how they helped Kal-El/Clark/Superman?


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

Ereth said:


> They've taken bits and pieces of several incarnations and made their own take. Which, I think, is probably the only way to do it. TV is a different medium than comics and being tied to 50 years of continuity is a bad starting point.


Short hijack: back in the 90s, some friends of mine found out I had a background in Classical Studies and decided I really MUST watch Hercules (and Xena).

I resisted for a while. One day I pulled out my textbooks and started looking at all the Hercules stories. I found out that even in the ancient world, there were lots and lots of different versions. So I said "okay, with so many 'originals', what's one more?" and plunged in.

The part of your post that I quoted reminded me of that.

My rule of thumb for any adaptation is that I want the adapter to get it. I don't want the new work to follow canon slavishly and miss the spirit of the work. If you get the spirit, you can make huge changes and still have it work, like _Who Framed Roger Rabbit_ or _Sherlock_.

Best of all is when you are surprised -- "I never thought of that, but it works!" like in Sherlock, where



Spoiler



the telegrams become text messages



or in Xena where



Spoiler



Aphrodite is portrayed as a California beach babe



It's always a delight when they pull something out you weren't expecting, but it's so obviously _right_.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Ereth said:


> That was true in the 1960s. That Supergirl died in "Crisis on Infinite Earths" (with the rather famous cover), and all of DC continuity was reset when that was over.


DC Comics (1985):









Marvel Comics (2011):









Hmmmm ...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Except the X-Men cover is from 1980...


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

getreal said:


> DC Comics (1985): Marvel Comics (2011): Hmmmm ...


Not sure where you got 2011 for the xmen cover. That is from 1980.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Except the X-Men cover is from 1980...





TonyD79 said:


> Not sure where you got 2011 for the xmen cover. That is from 1980.


Okay, comic nerds  , here is the corrected and updated (and censored for your viewing protection) version indicating who was influenced by whom:  (BTW, I trusted the 2011 date printed on the X-Men graphic.)

Caligula (1979):









Marvel Comics (1980)*:









DC Comics (1985):


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Ereth said:


> They've taken bits and pieces of several incarnations and made their own take. Which, I think, is probably the only way to do it. TV is a different medium than comics and being tied to 50 years of continuity is a bad starting point.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

JYoung said:


>


I can't say that I recall Supergirl looking like any of these concepts when I was reading her back in the early 60s. Else, I surely would have been still reading them.


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## awsnyde (May 11, 2007)

getreal said:


> (BTW, I trusted the 2011 date printed on the X-Men graphic.)


The funniest part is the idea of a comic from 2011 costing only 40 cents.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

I think if we are simply looking for prior art, Michelangelo wins this one.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

RGM1138 said:


> I can't say that I recall Supergirl looking like any of these concepts when I was reading her back in the early 60s. Else, I surely would have been still reading them.


Toward the later part of her earlier run, they turned it into a girls fashion mag, of a sorts, with Kara wearing 2 or 3 costumes per issue, with captions indicating which reader had sent in that particular design.

What girl wants to wear the same clothes every day, anyway?


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## Drewster (Oct 26, 2000)

During the costume montage, I thought it was interesting that they focused and commented on the top, cape, and crest, but the skirt and boots evolved without mention.

I guess there's no way of explaining Supergirl in a cheerleader skirt, except that she is. Same with the mid-thigh boots. (I appreciate that they have practical flat soles and not Lynda Carter-style high heels.)


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

Peter000 said:


> Most characters got Kara's name pronounced correctly ("Car-uh"), but Kat kept calling her "Care-uh." I wonder if that was intentional.


Very. They emphasized it in the closed captioning.



trainman said:


> I kept looking at the little scar next to Melissa Benoist's eyebrow. I'm just going to assume there was a Phantom-Zone-related injury. Wonder if we'll get a flashback.


I was amused by the scar juxtaposed with the claim that her alien origins keep her from getting pimples.

HD is a cruel mistress.



tigercat74 said:


> Was I the only one who thought she should have chosen the first costume?


Her co-worker certainly agreed.



jsmeeker said:


> The person in the hologram was Kara's mother. The person at the end was Kara's aunt (I think). But I am not sure if they are played by the same actress.


It's the same. I recognized her from Nashville. I was enormously confused because I thought it was the same character.



Ereth said:


> Yeah. You send an infant to another world, you kind of don't expect it to survive. You send a caretaker to take care of that infant until it can be self-sufficient.


Like Once Upon A Time.



Drewster said:


> I guess there's no way of explaining Supergirl in a cheerleader skirt, except that she is. Same with the mid-thigh boots. (I appreciate that they have practical flat soles and not Lynda Carter-style high heels.)


Skirts allow for a lot of freedom of movement. Think runners, field hockey, etc. As long as there's an attached panty and you have thighs you don't mind flashing it's no problem.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Ereth said:


> I think if we are simply looking for prior art, Michelangelo wins this one.


If you hadn't posted this, I was going to.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Ereth said:


> I think if we are simply looking for prior art, Michelangelo wins this one.


Or Jim Starlin, whom Michelangelo totally ripped off...








(He borrowed Leonardo's time machine.)


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Nerds!


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

tigercat74 said:


> Was I the only one who thought she should have chosen the first costume?


The top and skirt were certainly nice, but her legs looked jaundiced from the stockings.

I preferred the outfit she wore on _Homeland_.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

If this were a show designed for the male gaze it would be about Power Girl instead of Supergirl.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Ereth said:


> If this were a show designed for the male gaze it would be about Power Girl instead of Supergirl.


True dat.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

Yeah, you got some points, er I mean a point there.


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## Drewster (Oct 26, 2000)

I figure this is a good time to (re?)post these.



















So adorbs, so awesome.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

I just remembered something. How come her heat vision is pale blue (like Luke's light saber), while Supes was always red?


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

Maybe Superman's is blue in this universe as well. Isn't a blue flame hotter than a red one?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

RGM1138 said:


> I just remembered something. How come her heat vision is pale blue (like Luke's light saber), while Supes was always red?


Red clashed with her makeup.



Spoiler


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

RGM1138 said:


> I just remembered something. How come her heat vision is pale blue (like Luke's light saber), while Supes was always red?


It wasn't always red. The depiction of his heat vision changes in the different versions. In Superman Returns, for instance, it was almost colorless. In some renditions of the comics, it was similarly almost invisible, and you'd see the effects of it more than the beams themselves.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

bobcarn said:


> It wasn't always red. The depiction of his heat vision changes in the different versions. In Superman Returns, for instance, it was almost colorless. In some renditions of the comics, it was similarly almost invisible, and you'd see the effects of it more than the beams themselves.


But do they affect the air they pass through?


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

tonyd79 said:


> but do they affect the air they pass through?


lol!


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

Color me unimpressed. Too many issues, most of which have been covered here already. For me the episode came across as so fluffy. Too many people know who she is, characters were more caricatures to me. I couldn't stand Callista Flockhart's Cat. Too over the top.

The fact the Prison ship's been there and the criminals are just now getting started on taking over Earth? Where have they been for the last 12 or so years, planning? 

I'm probably out if the next few eps don't improve a lot.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

TonyD79 said:


> But do they affect the air they pass through?


I always thought in Superman Returns, that when he was severing the Space Shuttle from the plane, the beams of heat that you "saw" seemed like when air ripples above a hot pavement.

I seem to remember times in the comics where you'd see a red tint in his eyes, and the target would react. Then at times during heavy battles, it would be remarked that he had his heat vision turned up so high that you could actually see the beams. Now, they always show the beams because the mediums are very visual.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

I'd always ASSumed the beams were invisible (unless you saw in infrared), and they were only shown because, as Bob said, both comics and TV/movies are visual.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

If they're lasers, does that mean that Captain Cold can freeze them?


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## jschuman (Feb 20, 2001)

I thought it was just ok (Calista Flockhart character was SUPER annoying to me) but my 11 year old daughter *loved* it. So in my book, it's a thumbs up.


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

Robin said:


> I was amused by the scar juxtaposed with the claim that her alien origins keep her from getting pimples.


Ha, I forgot about the "pimples" mention from the show.

Melissa Benoist was on with Stephen Colbert on Monday night, and the scar wasn't really visible at all. "The Late Show" has better makeup and/or lighting people than "Supergirl"? (I know, it's easier to handle such things when you're in a static situation such as a talk show.)


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

She wasn't always invulnerable. An obvious answer is that she got that scar as a child, before she left Krypton, or in the spacecraft itself.


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## Drewster (Oct 26, 2000)

Or when Kal ripped the canopy open. Or on Earth but before the yellow sun charged up her superbatteries.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I like the scar.


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## mike_k (Sep 20, 2005)

jsmeeker said:


> I like the scar.


Me too.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

loubob57 said:


> I was excited to see Wayne Rigsby again (Owain Yeoman). But I guess he won't be a recurring character...
> 
> And I also got a kick out of Dean Cain and Helen Slater's brief appearance.


Heh, I didn't even realize that was Helen Slater. For a fraction of a second I thought it was Lindsay Wagner, but I knew she's way too old for that.

I liked it, but too thought the lack of involvement of Superman in such a big issue seemed strange.

Did they even ever say Superman? They seemed to always refer to "the other guy" or something like that. I actually didn't mind it too much, EXCEPT that it stuck out.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

trainman said:


> I'm sure it was intentional, to further the characterization of her as a stereotypical bad boss. Didn't Kara correct her once (but she wasn't listening/didn't care)?
> 
> I kept looking at the little scar next to Melissa Benoist's eyebrow. I'm just going to assume there was a Phantom-Zone-related injury. Wonder if we'll get a flashback.


Yeah, definitely intentional. The closed captions made note of the mispronunciation too.

Me three about the scar/dent. I wouldn't expect a superhero to not have perfect skin!


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

mattack said:


> Did they even ever say Superman? They seemed to always refer to "the other guy" or something like that. I actually didn't mind it too much, EXCEPT that it stuck out.


They said it only once, in Kara's voiceover of her origin story, when he showed up to help her out of her pod.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I don't think I really want the show "Supergirl" to feature Superman so heavily. Would be unfair to see her upstaged all the time.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

madscientist said:


> I will say this: the special effects, especially the flying but also the heat vision, etc., were REALLY well done.


Yeah, I'm probably totally wrong, but were a bunch of the fights and flying done with wires, and not blue screen?

There seemed to be more "real" physicality in some of the stunts and low altitude (like maybe takeoff) flying.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> I don't think I really want the show "Supergirl" to feature Superman so heavily. Would be unfair to see her upstaged all the time.


Sure, but the verbal gymnastics they went through to avoid actually saying his name was pretty clumsy and distracting.

As people have suggested, it's probably some kind of rights issue.

Hopefully, now that they're past the pilot, they won't need to talk about him at all.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

busyba said:


> Sure, but the verbal gymnastics they went through to avoid actually saying his name was pretty clumsy and distracting.
> 
> As people have suggested, it's probably some kind of rights issue.
> 
> Hopefully, now that they're past the pilot, they won't need to talk about him at all.


I didn't really think about it too much until people brought it up in this thread.

I was more interested in HER than "the big guy"


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> I don't think I really want the show "Supergirl" to feature Superman so heavily. Would be unfair to see her upstaged all the time.


Yep. I think references to Him will taper off fast.


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## Drewster (Oct 26, 2000)

mattack said:


> Yeah, I'm probably totally wrong, but were a bunch of the fights and flying done with wires, and not blue screen?
> 
> There seemed to be more "real" physicality in some of the stunts and low altitude (like maybe takeoff) flying.


It looked like wire work to me.

So, where is this scar? I need to, uh, investigate.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

On a talk show I saw a clip of she talked about how much she had to work on her core for the wire work, so yes, I assuming flying is wire work.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

busyba said:


> As people have suggested, it's probably some kind of rights issue.


Outside interviews with the shows team have said that it very clearly is NOT a rights issue but a choice they've made.


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

Drewster said:


> It looked like wire work to me.
> 
> So, where is this scar? I need to, uh, investigate.


IIRC it's between her eyebrows.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Robin said:


> IIRC it's between her eyebrows.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

It's no big deal but I would have preferred if Supergirl was set in a Superman free zone. Not only no mentions of him but nobody even knows he exists. Work him into her universe down the road if they need to. She'll always be playing second fiddle to a guy who never shows up the way things are now.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> It's no big deal but I would have preferred if Supergirl was set in a Superman free zone. Not only no mentions of him but nobody even knows he exists. Work him into her universe down the road if they need to. She'll always be playing second fiddle to a guy who never shows up the way things are now.


I really don't see how they could pull that off...how does Supergirl come before Superman?

Let's face it...she IS second fiddle to Superman. That will always be the case. So why not own it? I'm sure that could be the basis for a lot of interesting stories, considering the Modern Woman take they seem to be going for.


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## alpacaboy (Oct 29, 2004)

David Platt said:


> I haven't watched the aired version yet, but noticed a lot of comments wondering why they didn't mention Superman by name. In the leaked version, they did. Did that change in the aired version?


Maybe after the heat vision-Harry Potter incident, he shall not be named.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I really don't see how they could pull that off...how does Supergirl come before Superman?
> 
> Let's face it...she IS second fiddle to Superman. That will always be the case. So why not own it? I'm sure that could be the basis for a lot of interesting stories, considering the Modern Woman take they seem to be going for.


I am just glad they didn't go the lame "Superman is missing/dead/off world" nonsense like they did with Batman on Birds of a Prey.

Comic book readers have accepted for ages that not all heroes are involved in every adventure, even when it is big (world threatening, etc.). TV people can accept that too.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

dianebrat said:


> Outside interviews with the shows team have said that it very clearly is NOT a rights issue but a choice they've made.


Really? Okay, then it's just superbad writing. 

I get wanting to draw a clear line. But some of the cadences involved in talking about him without actually mentioning him were pretty dissonant.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

Just a heads up to anyone who is interested, Amazon and Vudu both have the pilot episode available for free in HD. Not sure how long this will last.

Disclaimer: I have Amazon Prime and also an account with Vudu, so I don't know if this affects the offer or not.

So, to paraphrase Bluto: Grab a pilot. Don't cost nuthin'.

ETA: And thanks to everyone for pointing out Kara's scar. Now it's screaming at me in 1080P.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

cheesesteak said:


> It's no big deal but I would have preferred if Supergirl was set in a Superman free zone. Not only no mentions of him but nobody even knows he exists. Work him into her universe down the road if they need to. She'll always be playing second fiddle to a guy who never shows up the way things are now.


That's like saying "I like Robin, but I wish there wasn't a Batman", or "I like Watson, but why does there have to be a Sherlock?" It's a part of who the character is. If you want a similar character without those characteristics, then make up someone new. Call her Hyperwoman or something.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

http://www.pinkisforboys.org/blog/halloween-1966


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

bobcarn said:


> That's like saying "I like Robin, but I wish there wasn't a Batman", or "I like Watson, but why does there have to be a Sherlock?" It's a part of who the character is. If you want a similar character without those characteristics, then make up someone new. Call her Hyperwoman or something.


But if earth is threatened by escaped Kryptonian prisoners, wouldn't you expect the big guy to fly to where they are, rather than hanging out back east in Metropolis? So there shouldn't be any instance of Supergirl "saving the world" singlehandedly in this series since he's in that universe.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Obviously the prison ship isn't a publicly known thing, and the Alien CIA organization (I can't remember the name of it) has been keeping it under wraps, and all that's out there is rumors. So Supes wouldn't necessarily know about it. And obviously nobody has told him about it.


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## Drewster (Oct 26, 2000)

I took it that the prison isn't filled with Kryptonians, or else a human organization couldn't possibly keep it under wraps. But clearly these guys do have super-ish powers. 

The big hole is that, if this alien prison ship landed along with her, surely the Big Guy would have noticed and have already taken care of it.

Eh. TV. :shrug:


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Drewster said:


> The big hole is that, if this alien prison ship landed along with her, surely the Big Guy would have noticed and have already taken care of it.


Although it didn't necessarily "land along with her"; it was drawn out of the Phantom Zone in her wake. There could have been some gap in time and/or space between their arrivals on Earth.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

pdhenry said:


> But if earth is threatened by escaped Kryptonian prisoners, wouldn't you expect the big guy to fly to where they are, rather than hanging out back east in Metropolis? So there shouldn't be any instance of Supergirl saving the world" singlehandedly in this series since he's in that universe.


That's kind of the problem with this prison ship story line. It sets up that expectation.

So, what do people want to see?

A) A show about a bunch of bad dudes from Krypton running around on Earth and being stopped by a good person(s) from Krypton.

or

B) A show about a girl (young woman) from Krypton who happens to be the cousin of a well known superhero from Krypton who will fight for truth and justice her own way, even if it doesn't involve super bad dudes from Krypton?

Personally, I was hoping to see B. Seems like a good twist on the good person from Krypton story. A story I sorta kind know already.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Peter000 said:


> Obviously the prison ship isn't a publicly known thing, and the Alien CIA organization (I can't remember the name of it) has been keeping it under wraps, and all that's out there is rumors. So Supes wouldn't necessarily know about it. And obviously nobody has told him about it.


But as soon as mayhem ensues... Right?


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Mayhem ensued with an alien in the program and all there ended up being was a rumor on the Internet.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

Drewster said:


> I took it that the prison isn't filled with Kryptonians, or else a human organization couldn't possibly keep it under wraps. But clearly these guys do have super-ish powers.


I'm thinking it must have some Kryptonians. I mean, they seem to be led by Kara's _aunt_. I assume she must be super too.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

pdhenry said:


> But if earth is threatened by escaped Kryptonian prisoners, wouldn't you expect the big guy to fly to where they are, rather than hanging out back east in Metropolis? So there shouldn't be any instance of Supergirl saving the world" singlehandedly in this series since he's in that universe.


I'm trying very hard to understand how anything you said has anything to do with what I said.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

bobcarn said:


> I'm trying very hard to understand how anything you said has anything to do with what I said.


The topic was whether Superman could exist in Supergirl's universe without making an appearance from time to time. If the escaped alien criminals are enough of a threat to have a secret government organization dedicated to defense against them, you'd expect them to catch Superman's attention. If Supergirl or the city she lives in is significantly threatened by the aliens and Superman doesn't come to their aid,what does that say about the Supers?

Your response to cheesesteak seemed to indicate you didn't see a problem with that. I was observing that it should limit where the show Supergirl goes without creating big plot holes.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

I think they could easily account for Superman without showing him. 

"Hey, your cousin flew in and took care of Baddie #12, but now we need you to handle Baddie #13. And you'll be on your own because your cousin is dealing with a volcano eruption in Japan.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

pdhenry said:


> The topic was whether Superman could exist in Supergirl's universe without making an appearance from time to time. If the escaped alien criminals are enough of a threat to have a secret government organization dedicated to defense against them, you'd expect them to catch Superman's attention. If Supergirl or the city she lives in is significantly threatened by the aliens and Superman doesn't come to their aid,what does that say about the Supers?
> 
> Your response to cheesesteak seemed to indicate you didn't see a problem with that. I was observing that it should limit where the show Supergirl goes without creating big plot holes.


I understand. And I agree. I'm not on board with major threats that doesn't have Superman making an appearance. It doesn't make sense. I still disagree with a scenario though where there's a _Super_girl without there being a Superman. It deviates from the characters so much that it doesn't make sense to even use them.


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## TeddS (Sep 21, 2000)

Maybe Batman can win that fight, leaving Supergirl to pick up the slack.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

What I liked about the pilot was that it was so joyful. In the past two Superman movies, Superman was a whiny Emo.


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## Drewster (Oct 26, 2000)

Turtleboy said:


> What I liked about the pilot was that it was so joyful. In the past two Superman movies, Superman was a whiny Emo.


Yes! That's it exactly! Superman isn't complicated, he's not conflicted, he's just *good*. Those movies were clearly made by people who don't get the character.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Drewster said:


> Yes! That's it exactly! Superman isn't complicated, he's not conflicted, he's just *good*. Those movies were clearly made by people who don't get the character.


Or, those movies were made by people who understand the character differently than you do.

(I'm not defending the movies, just challenging your assumption that there's only one valid interpretation of the character!)


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## Drewster (Oct 26, 2000)

Academic insight are valuable, but nope. They're wrong.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Even a comic book requires two dimensions.


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## Drewster (Oct 26, 2000)

Let's get back to Supergirl. 

Man, that pilot was awesome!


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## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> I do wonder about the skirt. I would think that would get in the way or something


You're not doing it right.

I liked most of it and the kids loved it, so it's good to have another show we can watch together. Pointed out the significance of Dean Cain at the beginning to my kids, but totally missed that that was Helen Slater.

I skimmed through most of this thread as it seemed mostly a lot of comic book dork talk (as many of these threads are), but while I agree with a few of the flaws pointed out, we'll continue watching.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

spartanstew said:


> I skimmed through most of this thread as it seemed mostly a lot of comic book dork talk (as many of these threads are)


I'm amazed you came into the thread at all. Watch out, you might get nerd cooties.


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

Having Superman in this universe but completely uninvolved with Supergirl is just... illogical. And stupid. I would have preferred an origin story where _she_ was the sole survivor of Krypton and there is no Kal-El. Make it Earth-3 or whatever.

Is the evil aunt her mother's twin sister? Looked that way to me.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Graymalkin said:


> Having Superman in this universe but completely uninvolved with Supergirl is just... illogical. And stupid. I would have preferred an origin story where she was the sole survivor of Krypton and there is no Kal-El. Make it Earth-3 or whatever. Is the evil aunt her mother's twin sister? Looked that way to me.


I don't find it illogical. Nor does 70 plus years of comic book stories.

What is weak is having a threat that is so big that Supes would get involved. Making it a smaller more personal drama is what would make more sense. Do all your family and friends always help you with everything or do they rally around when things are dire?

The way to tell the story is to limit the consequence so that you don't need to call your cousin. I have no issue with the evil aunt in that regard. It is the dozen superbads that is the mistake.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Graymalkin said:


> Having Superman in this universe but completely uninvolved with Supergirl is just... illogical. And stupid. I would have preferred an origin story where _she_ was the sole survivor of Krypton and there is no Kal-El. Make it Earth-3 or whatever.
> 
> Is the evil aunt her mother's twin sister? Looked that way to me.


He could be involved without appearing on screen. At the beginning of an episode it could be brought up by her or someone else that she just got back from Metropolis, or just for back from Japan helping her cousin with a volcano, etc.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Graymalkin said:


> Having Superman in this universe but completely uninvolved with Supergirl is just... illogical. And stupid. I would have preferred an origin story where _she_ was the sole survivor of Krypton and there is no Kal-El. Make it Earth-3 or whatever.
> 
> Is the evil aunt her mother's twin sister? Looked that way to me.


Why? Supergirl has had her own comic book for several decades. Superman does not appear in every issue or even in most issues.

What we have here is a situation where one person is good, but they have a more famous relative. Do you think every second child is constantly being asked "You know, you are a great doctor, but your brother is even greater, why didn't you bring him in for a consult on this?" (Substitute doctor for any profession you want).

Superman has already expressed, through James Olsen, that he wants to let Kara be her own person, make her own choices, which includes her own mistakes. Why would he fly out and help her every week?

It's not stupid at all. It's the most human aspect of the entire kryptonian experience. You have a famous sibling, how do you respond to being compared to them on a regular basis? Do you always want to live in their shadow, or do you want to be just you most of the time?


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

I have to say this, and I want to say I'm not saying it for my ego. My sister is three years younger than me. Her entire life, every time she got to a teacher who had had me three years earlier, her teacher always expected her to be me. And she's not me. I was a child prodigy. I had a teacher cry when we got transferred because I was the best student she'd ever had. And yes, I was socially odd, even then. But my sister wasn't me. She never became me, and no amount of her teacher treating her like me could make her me. She's not stupid, but she's not me. She's relatively normal (and far better socially adjusted). 

We moved a lot, so there were windows when she had teachers who had never seen me. But whenever she got one of mine, she was angry and upset and mad that she couldn't be herself, she was always my sister, and expected to be like me. In particular it hurt her badly in High School when my former English teacher ended up the principal in her new school and simply moved her from normal English to advanced English without even talking to her, simply because she knew me, and figured my sister had to be just like me. She failed that class and she blamed me for it. 

Me simply existing and being her relative caused her difficulties, caused her pain. And there wasn't a thing I could do about it. I couldn't even help her with her classes because they were so easy and obvious to me that I didn't know how to teach (rather famously once, in a math class, a fellow student asked me how I knew how to work a particular problem in proportions and the only reply I could come up with was "you look at it", which was not helpful to him at all. It took me years to figure out a way to explain how to do that problem because to me it was as obvious as "is this door open or closed?" and didn't require any thought). 

I can't address what it was like to be her. But I can say that it was stressful for me knowing that simply being was causing her difficulties. She was my sister and I loved her and causing her difficulties was the last thing I wanted. I didn't know how to help her, and the best thing I could do was stay out of her way, try not to make it worse.

And Superman is in a somewhat similar situation. Kara is going to be compared to him all the time. She's not going to be as good. We even saw that in the pilot where the news reporter was complaining about the damage from saving the plane. And she's going to have to deal with that, and find out how she can make peace, in her own mind, with always being second best.

Superman showing up to save her, or to help her, would make that far, far worse. And he knows that. In the comics when they did a similar storyline, he didn't even teach her himself, he sent her off with Wonder Woman, so she didn't have to be reminded of him every day and she could be herself. 

To me it makes perfect sense that he wouldn't show up, unless she asked for him. Because doing so would hurt her self-confidence, it would hurt her image, it would hamper her growth. There's no upside (barring a situation where the entire world is going to die if he doesn't, of course).


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Ereth said:


> ... It's not stupid at all. It's the most human aspect of the entire kryptonian experience. You have a famous* sibling*, how do you respond to being compared to them on a regular basis? Do you always want to live in their shadow, or do you want to be just you most of the time?


Minor correction ... Superman is not Supergirl's "sibling", but her "cousin". I know you knew that and it was just a minor slip as your mind was already preparing your follow-up post about you and your sister.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Ereth said:


> There's no upside (barring a situation where the entire world is going to die if he doesn't, of course).


Yes, but you're no Superman. 

We already know that the escaped alien prisoners are nasty enough to catch the attention of the Department of Extra-Normal Operations. So we know that their antics are capable of causing significant risk to the nation if not the world. Superman would have to be *really* busy not to be able to step in if someone is about to crash a jet into a skyscraper in National City, for example.


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## TeddS (Sep 21, 2000)

Nice of Superman to let Supergirl do her thing, but stupid when it involves escaped super-powered cretins who are on the loose and apparently ready willing and able to kill innocent humans. I'm sure all the innocent humans injured and killed by them agree with Superman that Supergirl needed her space.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

pdhenry said:


> Yes, but you're no Superman.
> 
> We already know that the escaped alien prisoners are nasty enough to catch the attention of the Department of Extra-Normal Operations. So we know that their antics are capable of causing significant risk to the nation if not the world.


"Extra-Normal", I guess "Aliens" would be too non-PC.



> Superman would have to be *really* busy not to be able to step in if someone is about to crash a jet into a skyscraper in National City, for example.


Yes, but he wants his l'il cousin to stand on her own two feet. Besides, Supe's plate is full with bank robberies, gang fights, kittens stuck in trees, that kind of stuff.

I'm sure if he senses big trouble that she can't handle, he'll provide assistance - from a discrete distance.


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## Drewster (Oct 26, 2000)

The prison ship is a dramatic problem for the show. It's a massive prison ship full of apparently-powered people, led by a Kryptonian. That's a rather large threat. In a world that already has Superman, the notion that he *wouldn't* be involved in this threat is a dramatic failure.

I'm looking forward to seeing Kara grow and Supergirl become her own hero, but show sets up a situation that *expects* Superman to be involved.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

TeddS said:


> Nice of Superman to let Supergirl do her thing, but stupid when it involves escaped super-powered cretins who are on the loose and apparently ready willing and able to kill innocent humans. I'm sure all the innocent humans injured and killed by them agree with Superman that Supergirl needed her space.


Would you prefer that this was the "Supergirl/Superman show"?


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## TeddS (Sep 21, 2000)

RGM1138 said:


> Would you prefer that this was the "Supergirl/Superman show"?


No, but the plot they came up makes it seem like it should be. They needed to come up with a better more practical reason why Superman is not involved. I agree with others that they should have scaled down the challenges she faces.

Or they could have given her some slightly different powers or insight that makes her more appropriate to handle certain tasks instead of Superman.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

TeddS said:


> No, but the plot they came up makes it seem like it should be. They needed to come up with a better more practical reason why Superman is not involved. I agree with others that they should have scaled down the challenges she faces.
> 
> Or they could have given her some slightly different powers or insight that makes her more appropriate to handle certain tasks instead of Superman.


I guess you'd have to speak to the Sun about that.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

getreal said:


> Minor correction ... Superman is not Supergirl's "sibling", but her "cousin". I know you knew that and it was just a minor slip as your mind was already preparing your follow-up post about you and your sister.


To be honest, I was thinking about Grays sister, who is a published author, and then tried to turn and make it more generic. So yes, I should have replaced "sibling" with "relative", and I missed that in my edit. Thank you.

I agree wholeheartedly that the "spacecraft full of supervillains" overplays their hand.

Superman can't save every crashing airplane, bus, train and car. He's long ago accepted that, and you should too. It's not a big deal for Kara to do that. I am really bothered by the whole "prison full of supervillains" and think it's the biggest flaw in the pilot. I'm hoping, though, that Vartox is your general level of supervillain, in which case, Superman really won't be needed. We aren't sending the A villains here.

Also, just so we are clear, it's a TV show. The Flash isn't going to run over every week, nor is Green Arrow. It's the story of Supergirl, not the Justice League.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

Drewster said:


> The prison ship is a dramatic problem for the show. It's a massive prison ship full of apparently-powered people, led by a Kryptonian. That's a rather large threat. In a world that already has Superman, the notion that he *wouldn't* be involved in this threat is a dramatic failure.


I thought that was the whole point of the prison ship -- to keep Superman busy tracking down and rounding up the majority of escaped prisoners, and thus unable to always swoop in and save the day when Supergirl could use his help. That prison ship looked big, and I suspect the prisoners that Supergirl enounters will be but a fraction of those that had escaped.

As to why these particular prisoners are coming out of hiding now, they are preparing for their leader's arrival. She is apparently coming on another ship, and is not on Earth yet. Whether she orchestrated the break from the Phantom Zone or her followers somehow found a way to break her out after having crashed on Earth is unknown.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TeddS said:


> Nice of Superman to let Supergirl do her thing, but stupid when it involves escaped super-powered cretins who are on the loose and apparently ready willing and able to kill innocent humans. I'm sure all the innocent humans injured and killed by them agree with Superman that Supergirl needed her space.


Well, the super-powered cretins I'm sure she can handle. It's the super-powered geniuses we should worry about. 

It's a bit surprising to me that everybody seems to just assume that WE thought of this problem (the role Superman would/should play in a prison escape of super-villains) but it never occurred to the writers. I know it's common practice to assume that every writer in Hollywood is a complete idiot, but maybe before we criticize how they handle the situation we should see how they handle the situation? Just a thought...


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I know it's common practice to assume that every writer in Hollywood is a complete idiot, but maybe before we criticize how they handle the situation we should see how they handle the situation? Just a thought...


He's a witch! Ban him!


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## TeddS (Sep 21, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I know it's common practice to assume that every writer in Hollywood is a complete idiot, but maybe before we criticize how they handle the situation we should see how they handle the situation? Just a thought...


They've already handled the situation - they avoided it. "James" Olson could have dropped a hint at something about "the big guy" not being available on a practical level to deal with this, but that never happened. Nobody in the show asked the question, nobody anticipated the question, nothing was done to hint at a reason *other* than that Supergirl needs to grow into her role as a super hero and leaving her on her own to deal with this will maybe be good for her.

Obviously the reason why Superman isn't here is because of licensing and other business-related issues.

Sure, the writers may get around to retconning a reason, especially if the audience demands one. But for now it's the writers (or re-writers) who are assuming the audience is dumb, not the other way around (or in addition to the other way around).


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

It's been ONE FREAKING EPISODE and the subject hasn't come up yet!

Maybe the writers are idiots. Or maybe the problem isn't with the writers. I for one am willing to wait until it becomes an issue & see how the deal with it (or not) before I criticize how they deal with it (or not).


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Well, I see your point, but we do have to deal with what they have established in the pilot, yes?

There's a Government organization in existence, complete with high tech equipment, buildings, training, etc. That doesn't spring up overnight. They've recruited Karas sister based on the fact that they knew who Kara was, so Kara has never actually had a secret. Karas sister has worked there long enough to prove she belonged. One must assume they've dealt with other aliens for her to have built that record.

All of that is stated openly in the pilot itself. I'm not saying that they can't write a good sequence out of it, but their opening gambit is a puzzling one that seems to have put them in a hole before they started.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

??? What does any of that have to do with the issue of whether or not Superman will help out?


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

robin said:


> he's a witch! Ban him!


lol!


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

TeddS said:


> They've already handled the situation - they avoided it. "James" Olson could have dropped a hint at something about "the big guy" not being available on a practical level to deal with this, but that never happened. Nobody in the show asked the question, nobody anticipated the question, nothing was done to hint at a reason *other* than that Supergirl needs to grow into her role as a super hero and leaving her on her own to deal with this will maybe be good for her.
> 
> Obviously the reason why Superman isn't here is because of licensing and other business-related issues.
> 
> Sure, the writers may get around to retconning a reason, especially if the audience demands one. But for now it's the writers (or re-writers) who are assuming the audience is dumb, not the other way around (or in addition to the other way around).


if it upsets you so much delete you sp and be done with it.


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## TeddS (Sep 21, 2000)

brianric said:


> if it upsets you so much delete you sp and be done with it.


I don't hate the show yet, just debating whether or not *now* is an appropriate time in the show's life to criticize it for what appears to be a major plot hole.

I'll give it a couple more episodes. They don't even necessarily need to solve this plot problem if other aspects of the show are good enough for me to keep watching. Hell, I continue to watch The Flash and that's got some massive plot holes.


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## TeddS (Sep 21, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> ??? What does any of that have to do with the issue of whether or not Superman will help out?


It shows that they know to create a lot of backstory to explain other aspects of the plot, and how those are needed to explain who's who and what's what. And all that backstory makes other kinds of explanation for plotholes harder to do. Like they can't just say that the Kryptonian prison landed recently, because everything else involved with that secret organization exists because the prison landed a long time ago.

Here's my latest theory - James Olsen is actually Superman in disguise. That's why he's so buff. Problem solved - he's right there, helping and being involved. No more retroactive plot adjustments needed than that.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

I'm sure Superman is helping out in the background. This is her story. 

They can tell it without him.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

TeddS said:


> It shows that they know to create a lot of backstory to explain other aspects of the plot, and how those are needed to explain who's who and what's what. And all that backstory makes other kinds of explanation for plotholes harder to do. Like they can't just say that the Kryptonian prison landed recently, because everything else involved with that secret organization exists because the prison landed a long time ago.
> 
> Here's my latest theory - James Olsen is actually Superman in disguise. That's why he's so buff. Problem solved - he's right there, helping and being involved. No more retroactive plot adjustments needed than that.




Black Superman!!

That's gonna piss off some people.


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## TeddS (Sep 21, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> Black Superman!!
> 
> That's gonna piss off some people.


Could be worse. Could've been...



Spoiler


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

Drewster said:


> The prison ship is a dramatic problem for the show. It's a massive prison ship full of apparently-powered people, led by a Kryptonian. That's a rather large threat. In a world that already has Superman, the notion that he *wouldn't* be involved in this threat is a dramatic failure.
> ...


Yeah, it's hard to imagine something that big coming down and the general population not being aware of it. And these people are prisoners for a reason. Once they have their freedom, it's hard to imagine some of them didn't just run off and start flexing their muscles.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

TeddS said:


> Could be worse. Could've been...
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Scariest picture I've seen yet this Halloween!

In what universe does he think he could ever play a good Superman?


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> Black Superman!!
> 
> That's gonna piss off some people.


There already is. One of the multiple Earths has a black Superman.

Also, on Earth 2 in the comics, Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman all died saving the Earth from Darkseid. It turns out a young black kid was sent to Earth too from Krypton, and he's recently stepped up to the plate. While he's not Superman, he wears the crest and is filling his role. At least, he _was_. I haven't read it in a few months.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

bobcarn said:


> There already is. One of the multiple Earths has a black Superman.
> 
> Also, on Earth 2 in the comics, Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman all died saving the Earth from Darkseid. It turns out a young black kid was sent to Earth too from Krypton, and he's recently stepped up to the plate. While he's not Superman, he wears the crest and is filling his role. At least, he _was_. I haven't read it in a few months.


I haven't read any new comics since the 60s, but I remember hearing about this on the news or somewhere. That comic has been around for years, hasn't it?


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

RGM1138 said:


> I haven't read any new comics since the 60s, but I remember hearing about this on the news or somewhere. That comic has been around for years, hasn't it?


A couple years, though the premise goes back a little further. During many DC events where multiple universes were endangered, they'd show variations of how "our" heroes existed in alternate realities. In one universe, morality is switched so that all the people who are normally good are evil, and vice-versa. In other, genders are all switched. In one or two, Superman is black.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

TeddS said:


> Could be worse. Could've been...
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler





bobcarn said:


> Scariest picture I've seen yet this Halloween!
> 
> In what universe does he think he could ever play a good Superman?


I noticed in my guide the other day a documentary on Showtime this coming Friday called "The Death of 'Superman Lives': What Happened?"


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cherry ghost said:


> I noticed in my guide the other day a documentary on Showtime this coming Friday called "The Death of 'Superman Lives': What Happened?"


That's supposed to be a good movie (the doc, of course, not the Burton Superman film)...


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

TeddS said:


> Could be worse. Could've been...
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Did I ever tell ya that this here _cape_ represents a symbol of my individuality, and my belief in personal freedom?


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That's supposed to be a good movie (the doc, of course, not the Burton Superman film)...


I also have that in my watch queue.

BTW, in the comics, the DEO is a highly secret and secretive organization that isn't exactly buddy-buddy with the Justice League.
(In fact, they're often more hostile to them.)

Soooo, if you can accept that they concealed the initial landing of the prison ship, I'm guessing that they never told Superman about it.
(Henshaw did have a line about how some people fear Superman.)

Of course, they have yet to explain why Kara won't tell him.....


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

I'm quite content that Superman (probably) won't be around because DC doesn't want him to be. I don't like the prison ship storyline because it seems stupid, not because it demands that Superman be around. 

Besides, I don't understand why everyone seems to be assuming that Superman is even available. My observation from recent TV shows and movies, and comic book reading as a kid, is that heroes generally are busy dealing with problems big enough that they are just barely able to cope with them. Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt there are many Superman comics where he spends his time stopping liquor store holdups and learning to make a great three-minute omelette. You can't look at this from only one side. No matter what Kara is dealing with, Superman can't just pop over to help her because he's over there in Metropolis dealing with a black hole or a lava monster or something.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

I suppose that in the Super-Universe there is no trouble in the Middle East or ISIS.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

If there are bigger problems than a prison ship full of baddies from Krypton, the world must be a messed up place!


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

getreal said:


> I suppose that in the Super-Universe there is no trouble in the Middle East or ISIS.


Exactly! There are far greater failures of logic in the Superverse than Kara's cousin Kal-El not helping her out more. Super-folk have to ignore very grave existential threats like world wars, large-scale famines, and the danger of nuclear weapons; ignoring a more experienced relative is trivial compared to that. This has been a problem in the comics since WWII. The Supergirl comic has always been sparing of it's mention of Superman.










Did y'all miss this in the bumper? DC Entertainment made the last Superman movie and is making the next one. I'm sure the reason for avoiding mentioning Superman is thematic, not some licensing issue. After all, this is the story of "Supergirl", not "Supergirl and Her Older Cousin".


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

bobcarn said:


> A couple years, though the premise goes back a little further. During many DC events where multiple universes were endangered, they'd show variations of how "our" heroes existed in alternate realities. In one universe, morality is switched so that all the people who are normally good are evil, and vice-versa.


Do they all have goatees?


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

cmontyburns said:


> I'm quite content that Superman (probably) won't be around because DC doesn't want him to be. I don't like the prison ship storyline because it seems stupid, not because it demands that Superman be around.
> 
> Besides, I don't understand why everyone seems to be assuming that Superman is even available. My observation from recent TV shows and movies, and comic book reading as a kid, is that heroes generally are busy dealing with problems big enough that they are just barely able to cope with them. Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt there are many Superman comics where he spends his time stopping liquor store holdups and learning to make a great three-minute omelette. You can't look at this from only one side. No matter what Kara is dealing with, Superman can't just pop over to help her because he's over there in Metropolis dealing with a black hole or a lava monster or something.


Actually, he does spend time stopping holdups and robberies. His stories are a mix of saving the world and saving people one at a time.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

ej42137 said:


> Exactly! There are far greater failures of logic in the Superverse than Kara's cousin Kal-El not helping her out more. Super-folk have to ignore very grave existential threats like world wars, large-scale famines, and the danger of nuclear weapons; ignoring a more experienced relative is trivial compared to that. This has been a problem in the comics since WWII.


DC has addressed issues like this many times. Superman delivers medicine and food to famine-stricken regions, and corrupt government agencies collect it later. Green Lantern helps out with something in Russia or China, and the it becomes an international incident because he's American and had no permission to come and go across the borders. In one issue of Superman, he intervened in a peaceful demonstration in Iran where the Iranian army was very likely going to execute the demonstrators. Superman stood in front of the army and... did nothing. Just stood there as a symbol and hoped that his presence would keep the soldiers from shooting because he wasn't about to intervene (and thankfully, it worked). It became a very serious incident between America and Iran, with Iran and other Middle Eastern nations furious that America was interfering within their borders.

Superman, as a character, has such incredible power that he needs to have an equal amount of restraint from using that power. In some of the parallel universe stories, Superman didn't exercise such restraint, and there was a wide range of results, but none particularly attractive.

So he likely could transform the world if he chose to, but to do so, he'd need to exercise his will on everyone.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

bobcarn said:


> DC has addressed issues like this many times. Superman delivers medicine and food to famine-stricken regions, and corrupt government agencies collect it later. Green Lantern helps out with something in Russia or China, and the it becomes an international incident because he's American and had no permission to come and go across the borders. In one issue of Superman, he intervened in a peaceful demonstration in Iran where the Iranian army was very likely going to execute the demonstrators. Superman stood in front of the army and... did nothing. Just stood there as a symbol and hoped that his presence would keep the soldiers from shooting because he wasn't about to intervene (and thankfully, it worked). It became a very serious incident between America and Iran, with Iran and other Middle Eastern nations furious that America was interfering within their borders.
> 
> Superman, as a character, has such incredible power that he needs to have an equal amount of restraint from using that power. In some of the parallel universe stories, Superman didn't exercise such restraint, and there was a wide range of results, but none particularly attractive.
> 
> So he likely could transform the world if he chose to, but to do so, he'd need to exercise his will on everyone.


Here is my response to DC's absurd justification: Holocaust.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed comics very much, and even when I was a child I appreciated the dilemma of the writers in this regard; I just can't accept the explanation as making any rational sense; a willing suspension of disbelief is required around this matter. It's interesting that the source material for Superman, Philip Wylie's Gladiator, had a protagonist who actively participated in WWI.

My point in bringing it up is just that there are things we have to accept for there to be a story at all, and worrying about where Superman is during Supergirl's adventures is taking things way too far.


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## alpacaboy (Oct 29, 2004)

bobcarn said:


> Superman, as a character, has such incredible power that he needs to have an equal amount of restraint from using that power. In some of the parallel universe stories, Superman didn't exercise such restraint, and there was a wide range of results, but none particularly attractive.


That just made me think of one of my favorite Superman quotes - comes from Justice League Unlimited "Destroyer(2)," written by Dwayne McDuffie:


Spoiler



Superman: (to Darkseid) I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard - always taking constant care not to break something, to break Someone. Never allowing myself to lose control even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, cantcha, big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose and show you just how powerful I really am.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

I understand that this is supposed to be about Supergirl, not S*perm*n, AKA Him, the Big Guy, or Supergirl's cousin. But it was a bit jarring to hear all those referrences to him without anyone speaking the name. 

I was also a bit jarred by the newest James Olsen. Not just the color change, but he's old! Jimmy was always a young twerp with lots of heart, but not much sense. James seems almost wise!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

allan said:


> I was also a bit jarred by the newest James Olsen. Not just the color change, but he's old! Jimmy was always a young twerp with lots of heart, but not much sense. James seems almost wise!


Bear in mind this is a world where Superman has been around for a while (at least a decade as Superman). So it makes sense that by now Jimmy would be older and wiser.


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

I just watched the first episode last night, I enjoyed it. 
I did find that I was actually less interested in the big bad during the last 15-30 minutes than I was with the setup and the plane rescue.


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## jamesl (Jul 12, 2012)

alpacaboy said:


> That just made me think of one of my favorite Superman quotes - comes from Justice League Unlimited "Destroyer(2)," written by Dwayne McDuffie:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


skip to 5:08 









anyone interested in comics who hasn't seen Justice League Unlimited should definitely watch it

it actually starts as 
Justice League 
and then became 
Justice League Unlimited

actually the entire DC Animated Universe is worth watching 
it's much better than any of the movies or TV series have been


Batman: The Animated Series 
Superman: The Animated Series
Batman Beyond
Static Shock -- although this isn't nearly as good as the others it does tie in with some plot lines
Justice League 
Justice League Unlimited


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## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

So why don't ALL the superheroes show up for all the events every time? Why do any of them do ANYTHING alone. 

I guess I am able to enjoy a super hero show without wondering where the other super heroes are.


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

I rewatched the pilot last night with my big kids (9/12) and they loved it. The 12yo is plotting to do her homework immediately upon getting home this afternoon so we can watch ep2 tonight.


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## Drewster (Oct 26, 2000)

:up: I'm giving it one or two more episodes before watching with my 10yo.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

NJChris said:


> So why don't ALL the superheroes show up for all the events every time? Why do any of them do ANYTHING alone.
> 
> I guess I am able to enjoy a super hero show without wondering where the other super heroes are.


I look at this series standalone so I don't need to know anything about the other tellings of the Supergirl story to enjoy this one, nor do I look for consistency between this version and other versions.

But this shoe has already introduced the fact that Superman exists and is at most a few thousand miles away most of the time. If they had left Superman entirely out of the pilot it wouldn't have exposed the potential plot hole to me.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

I'm excited to see EP 2, since it's been so long since I saw this episode.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

pdhenry said:


> I look at this series standalone so I don't need to know anything about the other tellings of the Supergirl story to enjoy this one, nor do I look for consistency between this version and other versions. But this shoe has already introduced the fact that Superman exists and is at most a few thousand miles away most of the time. If they had left Superman entirely out of the pilot it wouldn't have exposed the potential plot hole to me.


But part of the whole feel is that she is the cousin of superman so they can't really say he doesn't exist. Otherwise it is just superman as a girl. Not quite the same character.

The issue (as some have posted) isn't the existence of superman, it is the level of threat she is dealing with and the urgency of the threats. It is not the show but the plot. If she deals with lower or personal issues or ones that have to be dealt with immediately then the big guy doesn't get involved as easily.


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> If she deals with lower or personal issues or ones that have to be dealt with immediately then the big guy doesn't get involved as easily.


If she has the same superpowers as Superman she no more needs to get Superman involved ithan vice versa - whatever the risk/danger.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

vertigo235 said:


> I'm excited to see EP 2, since it's been so long since I saw this episode.


I'm excited to see EP 2 so we can stop talking about how this show should be about Supergirl and not he-who-must-not-for-some-reason-be-named-except-once-in-the-pilot and actually start talking about the weak plot lines.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

wprager said:


> I'm excited to see EP 2 so we can stop talking about how this show should be about Supergirl and not he-who-must-not-for-some-reason-be-named-except-once-in-the-pilot and actually start talking about the weak plot lines.


Supergirl is gonna take on another baddie from the prison ship. She'll have some struggles. People will wonder why Superman didn't come to help her out. They will say what a weak plot line it is to have the alien prison ship.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> Supergirl is gonna take on another baddie from the prison ship. She'll have some struggles. People will wonder why Superman didn't come to help her out. They will say what a weak plot line it is to have the alien prison ship.


Geez, SPOILERS, dude! This is LAST week's thread!


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

pgogborn said:


> If she has the same superpowers as Superman she no more needs to get Superman involved ithan vice versa - whatever the risk/danger.


Really? Experience counts for nothing? Two strong people with powers are better than one?

With that reasoning, we really only need an army of one. Why have thousands? They are all the same.


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> Really? Experience counts for nothing?.


I will take the girl who voluntered to get into a pod to Earth to look after a baby every time. Not the baby who was put into a pod.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

pgogborn said:


> I will take the girl who volunteered to get into a pod to Earth to look after a baby every time. Not the baby who was put into a pod.


But would you take the girl whose experience is getting somebody's coffee (and, apparently, not doing a very good job of it) over the guy whose experience is decades of fighting super-villains?

Which is not to say that watching the training wheels come off won't be fun, but the training wheels are definitely on.


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But would you take the girl whose experience is getting somebody's coffee (and, apparently, not doing a very good job of it) over the guy whose experience is decades of fighting super-villains?


I am not as knowledgeable about Superman as about Doctor Who.

If anybody has any evidence that Superman's coffee getting skills are better than Supergirls' go for it.

They both failed to detect that a super-prison fiilled with super-villains had crashed on Earth and the prisoners had escaped. But Supergirl scores a point for being the first to hunt down one of the escapees.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

pgogborn said:


> If anybody has any evidence that Superman's coffee getting skills are better than Supergirls' go for it.


They'd pretty much have to be. What can you say about a woman with heat vision who can't figure out how to keep coffee warm?


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

Spoilers about Episode 2:


Spoiler



They mention Superman by name at least three times in the first 10 minutes. Lois Lane and Clark Kent were also mentioned. I was under the impression that they would never use the S-word. Was I wrong? Is it that the Big Blue Boy Scout simply won't appear on the show?


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> They'd pretty much have to be. What can you say about a woman with heat vision who can't figure out how to keep coffee warm?


Now that she has revealed herself, maybe she'll start to do that?

Though she DID always know when her boss was about to arrive. So it's not like she never uses her superpowers to help her at work.


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> They'd pretty much have to be. What can you say about a woman with heat vision who can't figure out how to keep coffee warm?


If Superman uses his skills to heat the coffee for mean bosses I want Supergirl on my team.

And I bet the mean boss would still say the coffee was cold and get his name wrong


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

BitbyBlit said:


> I thought that was the whole point of the prison ship -- to keep Superman busy tracking down and rounding up the majority of escaped prisoners,


I guess I wish they had gone with a different way to have a villain of the week. This just seems too much like "13 ghosts of Scooby Doo". (Probably the earliest instance of this "oh we have to get X different things", and conveniently have a different plot for each show.)

Even Flash/Arrow have better ways of doing a bad guy of the week.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> Now that she has revealed herself, maybe she'll start to do that?





Spoiler



You just smeeked the second episode.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> They'd pretty much have to be. What can you say about a woman with heat vision who can't figure out how to keep coffee warm?


Not necessarily. That would explain why Perry White is so cranky.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Finally made ourselves watch this. As we were watching it, my wife and I both had the reaction of "it's not TERRIBLE" -- but that is because a coworker told me it was. But, having had time to digest it, I think it really was terrible.

The supergirl vs superwoman speech was arguably one of the worst written sequences of dialog I have seen in television this year. It made absolutely no sense and the only thing I can think is that they are intentionally being cheeky and meta about it.

Similarly, I cringed when the big bad spewed some misogynist nonsense. What exactly are they going for here? Are they making fun of their own universe and story?

Most of the acting was pretty good -- compare to the acting on Smallville, for laughs -- but the writing was pretty weak. Ultimately I don't expect anything interesting to come from this show.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

I thought this was pretty good. The actress who plays Kara is great, really captures the enthusiasm, but also the pain. Callista Flockhart I loved. 

The IT coworker is HAWT. No way Kara turns that down IRL. I'd hit it. 

Jimmy is HAWT. I enjoyed the actor in Necessary Roughness, glad to see him in something new. I'd hit it x2. 

I'm more than a little concerned with the introduction of some kind of police force and some kind of detective (the sister) paired with some kind of wunderkind offbeat parter (Supergirl) and that this show is on CBS that it might turn very procedural. The weak prison break-out story set-up did not assuage my fears. 

I don't care if Superman doesn't show up, even though it makes no sense. Hopefully they stop referencing him every other second.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

I am a latecomer to the party... Just watched the pilot last night...

Good start... All starts a little shakey, and this one was no different...but I think there's something here... I am going to continue to watch and see how it all comes together...

Thank goodness for episode specific threads!


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