# Losing all channels - Tivo Premiere



## sldavis1952

I have had my Tivo Premiere since 9-12-2011. I haven't had any problems with it until Friday, 9-30-2011. I was watching the Texas Rangers playoff game and it decided to restart on its on.

The next day the Tivo lost all the cable channels. I tried several of the channels and the unscrambled channels screen said it couldn't find a signal. The scrambled channels said channel not authorized. I restarted the Tivo from the Help menu item and the channels reappeared. The cablecard is a Motorola cablecard.

Last night Monday, 10-3-2011 we were watching some recorded shows and when we finished watching, all the cable channels had disappeared again. I tried to call Tivo, but it was after 7 pm PST. So I started a chat session. Before I called I restarted the Tivo and all channels came back. They guy had me look at some diagnostics and thought it might have been because of a signal dip. I called Tivo support this morning and the tech echoed the same thinking about a signal dip causing the restart on Friday and losing the channels on both occasions. I expressed that the software seemed to be less than robust if it couldn't recover from a signal dip. We agreed that I would monitor and not restart the next time the loss of channels happens during support hours. The tech also mentioned that a new version of the software was being pushed out toward the end of October.

Has anyone experienced these problems before?


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## sldavis1952

I came in from lunch Wednesday, 10/5/2011 and my Tivo had restarted and was coming up. I called Tivo support to log the information to my problem ticket. Asked the tech if they would honor the 30 day full refund if the problems weren't resolved when the 30 days were up. He agreed to do this since the case was active before the 30 days were up. I hope it gets resolved though.


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## dkraft

sldavis1952 said:


> I came in from lunch Wednesday, 10/5/2011 and my Tivo had restarted and was coming up. I called Tivo support to log the information to my problem ticket. Asked the tech if they would honor the 30 day full refund if the problems weren't resolved when the 30 days were up. He agreed to do this since the case was active before the 30 days were up. I hope it gets resolved though.


I had no channels on Wednesday morning. Second time this has happened. A restart fixed the problem both times. Not sure what is going on.


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## tomhorsley

This happened to me several times during a period in which comcast was making a lot of changes. I strongly suspect that some sort of configuration change the cable company can make doesn't agree with tivo. Power cycling my tivo fixed it every time, and since comcast seems to have gotten finished with most of their changes, I haven't had the problem again for a while now.

I was trying to write a script I could run in cron on my computer at 4AM every day to use the telnet interface to the tivo to just automatically restart it every day, but the problem stopped happening before I got the script to work .


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## L David Matheny

tomhorsley said:


> This happened to me several times during a period in which comcast was making a lot of changes. I strongly suspect that some sort of configuration change the cable company can make doesn't agree with tivo. Power cycling my tivo fixed it every time, and since comcast seems to have gotten finished with most of their changes, I haven't had the problem again for a while now.
> 
> I was trying to write a script I could run in cron on my computer at 4AM every day to use the telnet interface to the tivo to just automatically restart it every day, but the problem stopped happening before I got the script to work .


When in doubt, blame the cable company. It usually is their fault.


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## dkraft

tomhorsley said:


> This happened to me several times during a period in which comcast was making a lot of changes. I strongly suspect that some sort of configuration change the cable company can make doesn't agree with tivo. Power cycling my tivo fixed it every time, and since comcast seems to have gotten finished with most of their changes, I haven't had the problem again for a while now.
> 
> I was trying to write a script I could run in cron on my computer at 4AM every day to use the telnet interface to the tivo to just automatically restart it every day, but the problem stopped happening before I got the script to work .


Now that you mention that, a new HD channel had been added. I can't remember if it was before or after the restart. The TiVo had an on screen message "Bravo HD channel 430 has been added". You may be on to something.


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## sldavis1952

dkraft said:


> Now that you mention that, a new HD channel had been added. I can't remember if it was before or after the restart. The TiVo had an on screen message "Bravo HD channel 430 has been added". You may be on to something.


In my case, there was no message about channels being added.


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## sldavis1952

I lost all my channels again on 10/13/2011 - Every channels shows a black background with the Tivo icon then "Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again."

I waited until 10/14/2011 until Tivo support was open for business. Two prior Tivo support techs had asked me not to restart if it happened again and made it sound like they could do more troubleshooting if it hadn't restarted. The support tech I got this time said they preferred I did a restart before I called. Anyway not restarting didn't seem to help him any with the troubleshooting. He had me switch coax cables with a Series 2 that isn't having any problems. Just waiting to see if this solves the problem.


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## L David Matheny

sldavis1952 said:


> I lost all my channels again on 10/13/2011 - Every channels shows a black background with the Tivo icon then "Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again."
> 
> I waited until 10/14/2011 until Tivo support was open for business. Two prior Tivo support techs had asked me not to restart if it happened again and made it sound like they could do more troubleshooting if it hadn't restarted. The support tech I got this time said they preferred I did a restart before I called. Anyway not restarting didn't seem to help him any with the troubleshooting. He had me switch coax cables with a Series 2 that isn't having any problems. Just waiting to see if this solves the problem.


When my (OTA-only) Premiere gives me that message, I believe it means that it is receiving a digital carrier but not receiving a (valid) transport stream (digital video data). So ask the cable techs what should be feeding it the transport stream. If there's not even a digital carrier, the Premiere says, "Searching for signal on this antenna channel ...".


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## sldavis1952

L David Matheny said:


> When my (OTA-only) Premiere gives me that message, I believe it means that it is receiving a digital carrier but not receiving a (valid) transport stream (digital video data). So ask the cable techs what should be feeding it the transport stream. If there's not even a digital carrier, the Premiere says, "Searching for signal on this antenna channel ...".


Does your Premiere recover on its own? Mine doesn't. Last time I wanted 12+ hours and restarted and the channels came back.


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## L David Matheny

sldavis1952 said:


> Does your Premiere recover on its own? Mine doesn't. Last time I wanted 12+ hours and restarted and the channels came back.


Being OTA only, I have no cable card and no tuning adapter, so there really isn't anything for the TiVo to recover. Eventually the station starts sending a transport stream again, and then I see video again. In your case (cable) it's possible that restarting is needed to get the TiVo talking to the cable equipment again. But do try restarting just the tuning adapter to see if that helps.


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## sldavis1952

L David Matheny said:


> Being OTA only, I have no cable card and no tuning adapter, so there really isn't anything for the TiVo to recover. Eventually the station starts sending a transport stream again, and then I see video again. In your case (cable) it's possible that restarting is needed to get the TiVo talking to the cable equipment again. But do try restarting just the tuning adapter to see if that helps.


No tuning card, just Motorola cablecard. The software should be robust enough to recover on its own.


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## sldavis1952

I lost all channels again this afternoon. I called Tivo support. The tech support guy decided to ship me another Premiere and have me return the one I have now. I restarted and got the channels back after talking to the support guy. 5 minutes later the channels were lost again. I restarted the Premiere and it has hung at "Almost there... Just a few minutes more." for about 2 hours. I was hoping to move my recorded shows over to the new Premiere, but doesn't look like that is going to happen.


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## garys

I have Comcast. They set up two elites for me today, one cable card each. At first I was getting all of the channels below 100 and a few above 100. Then they slowly disappeared from both TiVos. After a couple of hours, every channel gives me "This channel is not authorized. Contact your cable provider for more information." I've had four very long calls with Comcast and no luck. I'm pretty sure its Comcast's fault, but at this point I'm pretty much giving up and sending the boxes back. My old Series 3 boxes still work, and having four tuners that don't work is hardly an upgrade from having two tuners that do work. I'm well within the 30 days, so back they go.


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## diamar

My channels disappeared today. It's happened sporadically over the last few months. It seems like it happens shortly after I transfer something from my Series3 or when I download something from Amazon to the Premiere. 

Usually a restart brings the channels back, but tonight I've tried 3 restarts, and no channels.

Using Broadstripe cable, so not the same Comcast issues others might have.

I think the latest software introduced some instability to the Premiere. Might have been working pretty well for months until recently.


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## sldavis1952

sldavis1952 said:


> I lost all channels again this afternoon. I called Tivo support. The tech support guy decided to ship me another Premiere and have me return the one I have now. I restarted and got the channels back after talking to the support guy. 5 minutes later the channels were lost again. I restarted the Premiere and it has hung at "Almost there... Just a few minutes more." for about 2 hours. I was hoping to move my recorded shows over to the new Premiere, but doesn't look like that is going to happen.


Got the replacement Tivo last week. Popped the cablecard from the old Premiere into the new Premiere. Got the standard HD channels, but couldn't get the premium HD channels. The cable company did a truck roll this morning and the tech walked in with a handful of cablecards. He called in the information on the current cablecard. Within a minute I was receiving all the channels I was supposed to. Hope the Tivo replacement solves the problem of losing all the channels.


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## martynl

I am also losing channels in the first few days since getting my Premiere Elite installed last Saturday.

After the cable company installed the cable card [they insisted], I had all channels including all digital and premium channels.

Then late on Saturday all channels disappeared. An initial reboot did not solve, but they came back again on Sunday. I spent the day sorting out season passes and wishlists. Things were running fine on Sunday night, but the channels had gone again Monday morning. A reboot on Monday evening restored all channels, but they were again gone sometime on Tuesday, and a reboot/power cycle this evening did not solve the problem.

[Background info: HDUI. Relevant Coax cable works fine when plugged into existing Series 2.]

I am trying to decide whether to call Tivo or Broadstrip (cable) first. Anyone have advice on whether this problem is more likely a cablecard issue or an Elite issue?

Thanks,

Martyn


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## diamar

martynl said:


> I am trying to decide whether to call Tivo or Broadstripe (cable) first. Anyone have advice on whether this problem is more likely a cablecard issue or an Elite issue?


You're the first person on this forum I've seen who also uses Broadstripe. My Premiere (not Elite) has generally behaved well until the last few months. Now it seems that I have disappearing channels once a week or so. I suspect it's a TiVo software thing, and might be correlated to something Broadstripe is doing.

I'm skeptical that either TiVo or Broadstripe will be able to help you, but please post here if you find any answers!


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## pfan1268

I felt compelled to post since this is a thorn in my side as well.

This happens to me on average once a week, always overnight. Occasionally it happens several times a week which makes me want to throw my Premiere out the window!
It happened last night and what restores the signal 90% of the time is to pull the cable card for 15 seconds. You may have to change the channel after plugging it back in. If this fails a reboot works every time.


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## sldavis1952

martynl said:


> I am also losing channels in the first few days since getting my Premiere Elite installed last Saturday.
> 
> After the cable company installed the cable card [they insisted], I had all channels including all digital and premium channels.
> 
> Then late on Saturday all channels disappeared. An initial reboot did not solve, but they came back again on Sunday. I spent the day sorting out season passes and wishlists. Things were running fine on Sunday night, but the channels had gone again Monday morning. A reboot on Monday evening restored all channels, but they were again gone sometime on Tuesday, and a reboot/power cycle this evening did not solve the problem.
> 
> [Background info: HDUI. Relevant Coax cable works fine when plugged into existing Series 2.]
> 
> I am trying to decide whether to call Tivo or Broadstrip (cable) first. Anyone have advice on whether this problem is more likely a cablecard issue or an Elite issue?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Martyn


What cablecard are you using? I am using a Motorola.

I called Tivo 6 times on my issue on losing channels.


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## sldavis1952

diamar said:


> You're the first person on this forum I've seen who also uses Broadstripe. My Premiere (not Elite) has generally behaved well until the last few months. Now it seems that I have disappearing channels once a week or so. I suspect it's a TiVo software thing, and might be correlated to something Broadstripe is doing.
> 
> I'm skeptical that either TiVo or Broadstripe will be able to help you, but please post here if you find any answers!


I also suspect it is a problem with the Tivo software. It could also be a cablecard issue. What brand of cablecard do you have? I have a Motorola.


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## sldavis1952

pfan1268 said:


> I felt compelled to post since this is a thorn in my side as well.
> 
> This happens to me on average once a week, always overnight. Occasionally it happens several times a week which makes me want to throw my Premiere out the window!
> It happened last night and what restores the signal 90% of the time is to pull the cable card for 15 seconds. You may have to change the channel after plugging it back in. If this fails a reboot works every time.


I am averaging about once a week for losing all channels. A reboot has worked for me. What brand cablecard do you have? I have a Motorola.


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## sldavis1952

This morning I got up and the replacement Tivo had lost cable channels 301-349. These are the scrambled channels. Channels 235-267 were pixelating. I restarted and everything was working properly. 

It could be a Tivo software issue like diamar suspects. My Series 2 is working fine in another room and worked fine for a 1 1/2 years in the spot I now have the Premiere. 
I got the replacement Tivo working with the cablecard Monday before noon. If it happens again I will call Longview Cable and ask them to replace the Motorola cablecard.

Does anyone have a cron job to restart their Tivo?


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## ronneva

I too have just experienced the problem of losing all channels and had to reset the box to reconnect.
I am TW with a motorola card.


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## diamar

sldavis1952 said:


> This morning I got up and the replacement Tivo had lost cable channels 301-349. These are the scrambled channels. Channels 235-267 were pixelating. I restarted and everything was working properly.
> 
> It could be a Tivo software issue like diamar suspects. My Series 2 is working fine in another room and worked fine for a 1 1/2 years in the spot I now have the Premiere.
> I got the replacement Tivo working with the cablecard Monday before noon. If it happens again I will call Longview Cable and ask them to replace the Motorola cablecard.
> 
> Does anyone have a cron job to restart their Tivo?


So I have had no issues at all lately, and the only thing that's changed is that I've stopped buying video on Amazon (I used to have some season passes). I think it was triggered every time I used my PC to specify delivery to my TiVo. Hardly scientific, but that's my best guess at this point.


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## martynl

Latest update for me
- cable company replaced cable card
--- still losing channels daily
- Tivo suggests 'clear and delete everything' (done yesterday)
--- channels lost again today

For me, rebooting does not resolve the issue generally. 

Next steps, I will be asking for a replacement box. Clearly not a cablecard issue.

I have a motorola card for those who wanted to know.

Martyn


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## sldavis1952

I haven't had an issue with losing channels since November 3rd. During that time I haven't used Netflix or HuluPlus. I don't know if using the streaming services could have caused the lose of channels. When I use them again, I will see what happens.


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## Bender1234

martynl said:


> I am also losing channels in the first few days since getting my Premiere Elite installed last Saturday.
> 
> After the cable company installed the cable card [they insisted], I had all channels including all digital and premium channels.
> 
> Then late on Saturday all channels disappeared. An initial reboot did not solve, but they came back again on Sunday. I spent the day sorting out season passes and wishlists. Things were running fine on Sunday night, but the channels had gone again Monday morning. A reboot on Monday evening restored all channels, but they were again gone sometime on Tuesday, and a reboot/power cycle this evening did not solve the problem.
> 
> [Background info: HDUI. Relevant Coax cable works fine when plugged into existing Series 2.]
> 
> I am trying to decide whether to call Tivo or Broadstrip (cable) first. Anyone have advice on whether this problem is more likely a cablecard issue or an Elite issue?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Martyn


Broadstripe in Seattle has been out twice. Seems to go out when changing channels. This time was weird though as the channel I changed from remained available and broadcasting even though the cable card diag screen said that I had 0 tuners and needed to call my cable company to pair the device.


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## chrispitude

This has happened to me and others. See:

thread: This Channel is Not Authorized 

Yes, it's very, very frustrating.


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## sldavis1952

This morning most of the channels were not there or were pixelating.
I restarted Tivo and could receive all the channels except for ESPN,
Channel 18 standard def and channel 348 high def. Checked my Series 2 
Tivo and it was working okay. Checked our other HD set and couldn't 
get the standard def ESPN. The coax is plugged directly into this TV. 
About mid-morning I was able to get ESPN channels on all the TVs. Longview
Cable may have been doing something with ESPN. Even if the cable company is 
doing something with the cable lineup the Tivo software should be able
to handle it. It also has been raining for 2 days with over 2 inches of rain. Maybe
the weather is causing some issue.


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## sldavis1952

Lost all channels again at 8:26 PM central time. Tivo quit recording American Pickers and The Closer. Also didn't record Hawaii 5-0 and Rizzoli and Isles. Ugh!!!


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## sldavis1952

Got the 14.9.2.2 update early this morning. Had a message that Program Guide data had run out. I haven't had many problems lately.


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## tomhorsley

sldavis1952 said:


> Got the 14.9.2.2 update early this morning. Had a message that Program Guide data had run out. I haven't had many problems lately.


Interesting, I had the same program guide data message, so I just took a look at system info and I also now have 14.9.2.2. I wonder why guide data running out seems to be a side effect of getting the new release?


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## aaronwt

sldavis1952 said:


> I have had my Tivo Premiere since 9-12-2011. I haven't had any problems with it until Friday, 9-30-2011. I was watching the Texas Rangers playoff game and it decided to restart on its on.
> 
> The next day the Tivo lost all the cable channels. I tried several of the channels and the unscrambled channels screen said it couldn't find a signal. The scrambled channels said channel not authorized. I restarted the Tivo from the Help menu item and the channels reappeared. The cablecard is a Motorola cablecard.
> 
> Last night Monday, 10-3-2011 we were watching some recorded shows and when we finished watching, all the cable channels had disappeared again. I tried to call Tivo, but it was after 7 pm PST. So I started a chat session. Before I called I restarted the Tivo and all channels came back. They guy had me look at some diagnostics and thought it might have been because of a signal dip. I called Tivo support this morning and the tech echoed the same thinking about a signal dip causing the restart on Friday and losing the channels on both occasions. I expressed that the software seemed to be less than robust if it couldn't recover from a signal dip. We agreed that I would monitor and not restart the next time the loss of channels happens during support hours. The tech also mentioned that a new version of the software was being pushed out toward the end of October.
> 
> Has anyone experienced these problems before?


I just had this happen to the premiere(1TB upgrade) I have in my bedroom. I have no idea what caused it, but all channels, OTA and cable, had a black screen. but if I checked the signal strength it was fine, but still no picture. A reboot fixed it, but I have no idea what caused it. I don't use this TiVo very often so it could have been like this for a few days.


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## L David Matheny

sldavis1952 said:


> Got the 14.9.2.2 update early this morning. Had a message that Program Guide data had run out. I haven't had many problems lately.


I got the "Program info has run out!" message Saturday. Apparently that's when my Premiere rebooted itself to install 14.9.2.2, but unfortunately I wasn't there to see it. The guide looked fine when I checked it later, and I haven't found any missing recordings, so I guess the problem was fixed by the next scheduled VCM connection.


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## sbiller

aaronwt said:


> I just had this happen to the premiere(1TB upgrade) I have in my bedroom. I have no idea what caused it, but all channels, OTA and cable, had a black screen. but if I checked the signal strength it was fine, but still no picture. A reboot fixed it, but I have no idea what caused it. I don't use this TiVo very often so it could have been like this for a few days.


Same thing happened on my Elite this morning. A reboot corrected the problem.


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## martynl

Thought I might add a final update on this issue for me. [See my earlier coments for previous details]

I got my Premiere Elite in September last year, and saw lost-all-channels every day for about 3 months. It was for a long period unclear whether the problem was the tivo, the cablecard, the quality of the cable signal or some other factor.

All through this period my 6 year old Tivo Series 3 was successfully working with almost no problems with the same cable signal. [This tivo had a long-term history of pixellation whose source was unknown].

Problem fixes tried
- clear and reset tivo
- re-pair cable cards
- switch cable cards
- cable company recable from wall to tivo
- return and replace premiere elite
- cable company investigate signal quality at their end

After all of this, tivo was convinced that the problem was with the cable signal. In particular, we saw especially high values of RS Uncorrected in the Tivo diagnostics, which tivo insisted was the cause of the problem.

By contrast Broadstripe (the cable company) insisted that the signal was fine and that they could detect no signal issues at all with any of their devices. They were somewhat cooperative and turned up for several no-charge service appointments, but never called back when they said they would and there was no improvement in service. They also claimed that cablecards were bad, out of production and that they were 'unable to order any more'. In the end we had ~6 service calls with Broadstripe and I had to stay home many days to make no progress.

So finally I took the nuclear option and switched cable companies. Luckily our condo building has two cable providers, so I was easily able to switch to Comcast.

Since the switch to comcast, we have had both perfect video (no pixellation on either tivo). However, ouir RS Uncorrected values are still very high (even higher than before). So even if this is really an indication of video quality problems, it's clear that this was not the root of our problem.

My belief after all of this is that the problem was actually with the broadstripe cable cards being unstable/unreliable. We only tried 2 Broadstripe cards and that made me rule out cablecard problems, but I think I was too quick to rule that out. The other possibility is that Comcast's head unit is of higher quality than Broadstripe.

Either way, for slightly more cost we got many more HD channels and finally solved our 3 month Elite nightmare. So well worth it.

Martyn


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## gteague

martynl said:


> Thought I might add a final update on this issue for me. [See my earlier coments for previous details]
> 
> I got my Premiere Elite in September last year, and saw lost-all-channels every day for about 3 months.
> 
> All through this period my 6 year old Tivo Series 3 was successfully working with almost no problems with the same cable signal.
> 
> By contrast Broadstripe (the cable company) insisted that the signal was fine and that they could detect no signal issues at all with any of their devices. <del.
> 
> Martyn


i didn't realize this thread was here. i've started a log of my similar problems with a new elite. time-warner has been here 3 times and assured me that the signal is good. i was getting los (loss of signal/sync) every 18-48 hours until i changed out the cable card yesterday and now my channels are going out every two hours. it is infuriating to put it mildly. my s3 unit which died was working perfectly with two cable cards and the tuning adaptor and the elite won't work with exactly the same setup.

/guy


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## sldavis1952

I haven't had a problem with the Tivo Premiere since 12/24/2011. Since the update to 
14.9.2.2, which I got on 12/16/2011, I only had this one incident.


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## sldavis1952

I started losing channels again on Wednesday, 4/11/2012. I will call Tivo about the problem this afternoon. Following is my log of what has happened.

6:49 AM 4/11/2012 -
Tivo was frozen on channel 250. Said lost signal trying again. I tried 7 channels and it said this
on every channel. Restarted Tivo and it worked fine. Haven't had a problem in a long time.
Later in the morning there was a message about a change in the channel lineup. Two channels
had moved. At 9 PM the Tivo restarted when I selected CSI Miami to play.

11:03 AM 4/12/2012 -
This morning about 7:40 AM Tivo displayed, "Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again."
This was on all channels. Restarted and everything was working okay. Under System Information
Software Version: 20.2-01-2-746
DVR Name: <Name this DVR on www.tivo.com> This is fishy. I have had it named sinced I got it in Sept. 2011.

10:16 AM 4/13/2012
About 5:40 AM Tivo displayed, said, "This channel is not authorized. Contact your cable
provider for more information." This was on all the scrambled channels. The other channels displayed,
"Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again." Restarted Tivo and could get all 
channels again.


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## sldavis1952

Called Tivo support. The young lady walked me through the normal checks. Started recording a channel above 100, went to dvr diagnostics, checked on the cable card, etc. Everything checked out okay. Recommended that next time it happened not to restart the and call Tivo support. Deja vue.



sldavis1952 said:


> I started losing channels again on Wednesday, 4/11/2012. I will call Tivo about the problem this afternoon. Following is my log of what has happened.
> 
> 6:49 AM 4/11/2012 -
> Tivo was frozen on channel 250. Said lost signal trying again. I tried 7 channels and it said this
> on every channel. Restarted Tivo and it worked fine. Haven't had a problem in a long time.
> Later in the morning there was a message about a change in the channel lineup. Two channels
> had moved. At 9 PM the Tivo restarted when I selected CSI Miami to play.
> 
> 11:03 AM 4/12/2012 -
> This morning about 7:40 AM Tivo displayed, "Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again."
> This was on all channels. Restarted and everything was working okay. Under System Information
> Software Version: 20.2-01-2-746
> DVR Name: <Name this DVR on www.tivo.com> This is fishy. I have had it named sinced I got it in Sept. 2011.
> 
> 10:16 AM 4/13/2012
> About 5:40 AM Tivo displayed, said, "This channel is not authorized. Contact your cable
> provider for more information." This was on all the scrambled channels. The other channels displayed,
> "Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again." Restarted Tivo and could get all
> channels again.


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## Bighouse

It seems like there are a lot of TiVo users in Texas and a lot of the "losing channel - reboot" comes from there?!


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## gteague

i see i last posted in this thread in january, but i've had the channel loss problem from december to today on two different elites. i've been keeping a log in the 'tivo experience' thread and it's nearly 6 pages long now. there are others posting there as well, and i'd say most of them from texas on time-warner

/guy


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## mike0908

Same problem here in South Jersey with Comcast/Tivo Premiere. Premiere "loses" channels between 5 and 8 days. Reset/restart and all channels are back! Been through 12 cablecards over several Comcast visits. Also replaced the original Premiere box (it wouldn't start, no picture, etc. after ~ 8 months). Have a Series 3 and it's been humming along perfectly forever. Think it's a Tivo Premiere (software?) issue.


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## sldavis1952

4:45 PM 4/29/2012 -
Lost all channels again on the Premiere. The Tivo was displaying, "Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again."
I restarted the Tivo. After restart it is working fine. Noticed that the name of the Tivo series 2 had gone back
to its default name and no longer was named Guest Bedroom.


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## sldavis1952

Tivo displays, "Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again."
Sometimes it is displaying, "This channel is not authorized. Contact your cable provider for more information." and then it changes to, "Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again."

Tivo support had me remove cable card and the lower non-scrambled channels came in okay. I put the cable card back in and I started receiving the channels. Tivo support said the cable card was intermittent, to call cable company and get new cable card. 
I will wait and call the cable company when it happens again.


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## dan6681

I've started to have the same problem today in Austin with TWC. HD Scrambled channels go out. I restart the TIVO and they all come back. However I'm not having a problem with the non HD channels or HD network channels.


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## dan6681

dan6681 said:


> I've started to have the same problem today in Austin with TWC. HD Scrambled channels go out. I restart the TIVO and they all come back. However I'm not having a problem with the non HD channels or HD network channels.


I pulled the USB cable from the tuner, then pulled the power cord, reinserted power cord and I'm back up in running.


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## sldavis1952

sldavis1952 said:


> Tivo displays, "Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again."
> Sometimes it is displaying, "This channel is not authorized. Contact your cable provider for more information." and then it changes to, "Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again."
> 
> Tivo support had me remove cable card and the lower non-scrambled channels came in okay. I put the cable card back in and I started receiving the channels. Tivo support said the cable card was intermittent, to call cable company and get new cable card.
> I will wait and call the cable company when it happens again.


It has been 2 weeks and the problem hasn't happened again. I think it is a Tivo software issue and not an intermittent cable card. Maybe something in live sports broadcasts that the software can't handle.


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## lkinley

My Premiere, which I've had for 1 1/2 years now, lost all channels sometime over this last weekend. Reboot fixed it. This has never happened before...

I'm on Comcast and my S3 never had a problem over the same period.


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## gteague

when this happens, you might try pulling the cable card, waiting for a few seconds, then re-inserting the card. this works for me 98% of the time and gets you back and running in 2 minutes vs 12 minutes for a reboot.

but when tivo gets you playing cable-card roulette with the cable company, it's hard to get off the wheel until the cable company gets tired of playing and cuts you off entirely. although it is possible to hit the double-zero and win the game, the odds are about the same as with real roulette.

/guy


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## sldavis1952

Turned on the TV this morning and all channels were lost. Pulled the cable card and waited a few seconds before reinserting. The channels came back.
It has been 17 days since the last time it occurred.


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## sldavis1952

Got Tivo update yesterday. Software Version: 20.2.1.1-01-2-746. 
Logged into Netflix and watched a show. Interface is an improvement
over old one. Watched something on YouTube. Not sure about about 
the YouTube interface.


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## gteague

it will be hard to keep up with the uptime for the next few months with the stormy season coming to the area which nearly guarantees power failures at least once a week. i haven't had the channel loss problem for about 3 weeks now, but i've had a power failure at least once a week. if i thought a reboot every week would keep me running i'd happily do that, but alas, the problem is just too random or unexplained to respond to that proactive treatment.

one thing i've been trying (out of desperation comes magickal thinking), on the theory that there might be signal corruption on certain channels and knowing that for some reason a handful of channels give me the most problems, i've been keeping my tuners set on 4 of the lower or baseband channels whenever i can and they're idle. i have had virtually no problems in the last 3 weeks and usually i have an outage every 2-4 days, but then again, as i said, i've had at least one restart due to power failure per week. i'm still maintaining my log at:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=481894

/guy


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## ComputerLover

same my tivo premiere elite's problem with channel and no tv guide problem.. sad


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## sldavis1952

We had a thunderstorm early this morning. When I got up all the channels were gone. I pulled the cable card and re-seated. This work for me this time. I will start logging the channels I live the tuners on. I just checked one tuner and it was on channel 306 TNT and that is what I had left it on last night. I was watching the Spurs-Thunder game.


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## sldavis1952

Lost all channels tonight. I was watching Netflix. Pulled cablecard and reinserted. Got all
channels back.


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## sldavis1952

Lost all channels at about 5:30 PM CDT. It was recording a Tivo suggestion on TLC channel 323. We were watching the evening news on NBC channel 250. It was displaying on the scrambled channels, "This channel is not authorized. Contact your cable provider for more information." I pulled the cablecard and reinserted. The channels came back. I decided to do a restart. Can't decide whether to call the cable company as Tivo support suggested.


----------



## aaronwt

gteague said:


> it will be hard to keep up with the uptime for the next few months with the stormy season coming to the area which nearly guarantees power failures at least once a week. ...........


You don't have the TiVo connected to a UPS?


----------



## gteague

aaronwt said:


> You don't have the TiVo connected to a UPS?


my ups just died last week and i haven't yet replaced it. i first wanted to run a watt-o-meter to find the current draw and so far it looks like about 85w although that's also the ext drive and i think my cable modem as well.

/guy


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## sldavis1952

Restarted Tivo. It was pixelating on the channels I tried. The audio was 
coming in and out. Doing the same thing after the restart.


----------



## sldavis1952

Restarted Tivo. It wasn't receiving any channels. One tuner was on TCL channel 323.
I didn't see what the other tuner was on. This happened about 7 pm.


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## sldavis1952

At 6:15 AM the Tivo wasn't receiving channels. Tivo was displaying, 
"Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again." It was trying to record
channel 267 a public broadcasting channel. It was pixelating bad on this
channel. The other tuner was on channel 50 Fox Sports. This was where it was displaying the message. I tried several other channels. It would either display the message with a black background or show blocky pixelation. I pulled the cablecard, waited a minute and reinserted the card. All the channels came back. Calling Longview Cable this morning about it.


----------



## sldavis1952

The Longview Cable tech came by about 3 pm. He said that it was the signal causing my problem.
He put in a 2-way splitter on the the line coming into my structured media box. One line going
to the Tivo and on the other line he put a 3-way splitter going to my other TVs. The prior
setup had a 4-way split. Hopefully this will fix the problem.


----------



## mad

This is kind of happening to me now as well...only my cable is perfectly fine and it just happens randomly, especially if I leave my TV on overnight. I don't know how to fix it, only that it usually takes a few days and then fixes it self. There are 3 other TVs in my house, none of which have this problem. I don't want to wait a few days this time, how do I fix it?!


----------



## sldavis1952

mad said:


> This is kind of happening to me now as well...only my cable is perfectly fine and it just happens randomly, especially if I leave my TV on overnight. I don't know how to fix it, only that it usually takes a few days and then fixes it self. There are 3 other TVs in my house, none of which have this problem. I don't want to wait a few days this time, how do I fix it?!


To temporarily fix it I have pulled the cablecard waited about 30 seconds and reinserted the cablecard. This works most of the time. A few times I have had to restart the Tivo. I am hoping that putting in the 2-way and 3-way splitters to replace the 4-way splitter by the cable tech is the solution. This increased the signal going to my Tivo Premiere.


----------



## mad

Can I pull it out while the Tivo is on? The restart process is obnoxious.


----------



## gteague

yep & yep.

/guy


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## sldavis1952

I haven't had a problem since 6/19. I'm hoping that the increase in signal has fixed the problem. The cable tech mentioned that with hot weather the signal strength decreases. It has been over 100 for a few days and high 90s before that.


----------



## sldavis1952

All of the channels were black and Tivo displayed, "Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again." I thought this might happen. Longview Cable is doing a cable lineup change today and this has occurred before on the Tivo when the cable company has done a lineup change. I restarted the Tivo and could receive the channels again.


----------



## sldavis1952

All the channels were gone this morning. Some just black screens. Others pixelating too bad to watch. I restarted the Tivo and everything was back. We had a thunderstorm this morning, don't know if that caused anything.

A few days ago the magnetron went out on our GE Profile microwave. We heard a loud pop and then ESPN HD and ESPN2 HD went out right after that. About 30 minutes later they both came back without doing anything.


----------



## sldavis1952

Had a thunderstorm yesterday afternoon. Last night the Premiere lost all channels about 8:15 PM. I restarted, but this didn't fix the problem. I pulled the cable card and reinserted. I got the channels back. This morning about 6:15 AM all the cable channels were gone again. I restarted and the channels were back.


----------



## sldavis1952

Lost all channels again tonight about 9 PM. Pulled cable card and reinserted. Channels came back. Signal strength around 87-90 and snr around 36-37 DB on both tuners.


----------



## sldavis1952

Lost all channels again about 9:45 PM. The Premiere may be failing.



sldavis1952 said:


> Lost all channels again tonight about 9 PM. Pulled cable card and reinserted. Channels came back. Signal strength around 87-90 and snr around 36-37 DB on both tuners.


----------



## markfheil

This just happened to me this morning. No signal message on all channels AND none of my RECORDED shows would play. Well, they would play, but no sound or picture, just the green progress bar showed. Even downloaded videos would not play. Did a restart from the menu and its all back to normal. I'm assuming the flash video player crashed?


----------



## sldavis1952

Not able to receive any channels this morning. Looked at DVR Diagnostics for channel 266 and 349.

Channel: 266
Signal Strength: 83-87
SNR: 36 dB
RS Uncorrected: 464
RS Corrected: 135

Channel: 349
Signal Strength: 89-91
SNR: 37 dB
RS Uncorrected: 453
RS Corrected: 143

I will restart the Tivo. This is about 6 outages in the last 4 days. I don't know if Tivo Premiere is robust enough to work with Longview Cable's signal strength. It has gone long stretches with no outages, but then will have clusters of failures like this.


----------



## sldavis1952

markfheil said:


> This just happened to me this morning. No signal message on all channels AND none of my RECORDED shows would play. Well, they would play, but no sound or picture, just the green progress bar showed. Even downloaded videos would not play. Did a restart from the menu and its all back to normal. I'm assuming the flash video player crashed?


This sounds different from what I am experiencing. My recorded shows would play, if they were recorded *before* an outage occurred.


----------



## MC Hammer

sldavis1952 said:


> Not able to receive any channels this morning. Looked at DVR Diagnostics for channel 266 and 349.
> 
> Channel: 266
> Signal Strength: 83-87
> SNR: 36 dB
> RS Uncorrected: 464
> RS Corrected: 135
> 
> Channel: 349
> Signal Strength: 89-91
> SNR: 37 dB
> RS Uncorrected: 453
> RS Corrected: 143
> 
> I will restart the Tivo. This is about 6 outages in the last 4 days. I don't know if Tivo Premiere is robust enough to work with Longview Cable's signal strength. It has gone long stretches with no outages, but then will have clusters of failures like this.


Hmm, thats almost exactly what my boxes read and I have no issues. Maybe contact TiVo for a replacement? Could be the box is going bad.


----------



## sldavis1952

MC Hammer said:


> Hmm, thats almost exactly what my boxes read and I have no issues. Maybe contact TiVo for a replacement? Could be the box is going bad.


I thought so too. Tivo support saw my posts and have offered to replace the unit.


----------



## sldavis1952

I lost all channels again this morning. So 6 times in 4 days. I decided to try something before calling Longview Cable support and Tivo support. I have 2 coax cables coming in from the outside box. I'm sure there is a splitter outside for the 2 lines, but thought I would give my idea a try. One line was dedicated to my internet connection and the other split 4 ways to my cable TVs in my structured network media cabinet. I powered down my Tivos and my cable modem. I swapped the dedicated line to go to my Tivo Premiere and the split line is going to my other 3 cable TVs and my internet connection. Everything is back up and running. So this eliminates any splits inside the house to the Premiere. What the DVR Diagnostics show now.

Channel: 348
Signal Strength: 86-87
SNR: 36 dB
RS Uncorrected: 1
RS Corrected: 1

Channel: 250
Signal Strength: 87-89
SNR: 36-37 dB
RS Uncorrected: 1
RS Corrected: 0

I am going to see if this helps the situation any. Next steps will be to call Longview Cable support and Tivo support if problems persist.


----------



## sldavis1952

sldavis1952 said:


> I lost all channels again this morning. So 6 times in 4 days. I decided to try something before calling Longview Cable support and Tivo support. I have 2 coax cables coming in from the outside box. I'm sure there is a splitter outside for the 2 lines, but thought I would give my idea a try. One line was dedicated to my internet connection and the other split 4 ways to my cable TVs in my structured network media cabinet. I powered down my Tivos and my cable modem. I swapped the dedicated line to go to my Tivo Premiere and the split line is going to my other 3 cable TVs and my internet connection. Everything is back up and running. So this eliminates any splits inside the house to the Premiere. What the DVR Diagnostics show now.
> 
> Channel: 348
> Signal Strength: 86-87
> SNR: 36 dB
> RS Uncorrected: 1
> RS Corrected: 1
> 
> Channel: 250
> Signal Strength: 87-89
> SNR: 36-37 dB
> RS Uncorrected: 1
> RS Corrected: 0
> 
> I am going to see if this helps the situation any. Next steps will be to call Longview Cable support and Tivo support if problems persist.


Lost all channels again. So changing to a dedicated coax line didn't help.
Restarted and channels came back. 2 channels it was on were pixelating so bad you couldn't watch. Going by Longview cable and get the tech to come by again.


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## sldavis1952

Longview Cable tech came by and signal was fine for all channels. He replaced the
cable card. Previously I had put the coax lines back to original configuration, where
the cable modem has the dedicated line coming into the house.


----------



## MC Hammer

sldavis1952 said:


> Longview Cable tech came by and signal was fine for all channels. He replaced the
> cable card. Previously I had put the coax lines back to original configuration, where
> the cable modem has the dedicated line coming into the house.


Any idea what the dBmV levels were when they measured the signal?


----------



## sldavis1952

The tech measured something and said it was the same as the SNR. It was around 36 for all channels. He measured the analog channels, lower HD channels that aren't encrypted and the upper HD channels that are encrypted. He said all the channels had a signal that was okay. The good news is that at least for this morning the Tivo was working when I got up. Maybe the new cable card will do the trick.



MC Hammer said:


> Any idea what the dBmV levels were when they measured the signal?


----------



## MC Hammer

sldavis1952 said:


> The tech measured something and said it was the same as the SNR. It was around 36 for all channels. He measured the analog channels, lower HD channels that aren't encrypted and the upper HD channels that are encrypted. He said all the channels had a signal that was okay. The good news is that at least for this morning the Tivo was working when I got up. Maybe the new cable card will do the trick.


That doesn't sound right. Typical dBmV levels on a CATV system are usually -10dBmV to +10dBmV.


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## skaggs

I lost all my cable channels on my Elite a few days ago. The whole thing started when I couldn't get the local TWC news channel (YNN HD) on my Elite. I started a thread at the TiVo.com site on this because I thought it was a guide issue. A person representing TiVo on that forum (Jessica?) had me redo guided setup. When guided setup was complete, my Elite would not display ANY channels.

I rebooted the tuning adapter and restarted the Elite many times, still NO Channels at all. I did notice, however, that when I rebooted the TA, the non-SDV channels would display. Once the TA had finished rebooting, no channels would display.

Having grown frustrated with TiVo support, I contacted TWC via twitter. They asked me for both my TA and CC serial numbers and then attempted to reauthorize my cable card. This didn't work. The TWC rep contacted the TWC cable card hotline and then said that they are aware of a recent TiVo software update that is causing the problem.

Funny thing is, I also have a plain old Premiere (with CC & TA) in my bedroom that works fine. The TWC rep said that Premiere didn't get the new TiVo software update, while the Elite did. A quick check of the TiVos menus showed the Elite had a different (newer) software version: 20.2.1.2-01-2-758

TWC said they would notify me when TiVo told them there was a resolution to my issue. In the meantime, they told me to unplug the USB cord between my TA and TiVo so I could receive the non-SDV channels. This doesn't help me with the season premiere of Breaking Bad tonight on AMC (a SDV channel).


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## sldavis1952

Lost all channels again. Tivo displayed, "Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again."
Restarted and channels came back. We were watching Netflix when the channels disappeared. The recording
of Falling Skies on TNT quit at 8:14 PM while we were watching Netflix.


----------



## moyekj

skaggs said:


> I lost all my cable channels on my Elite a few days ago. The whole thing started when I couldn't get the local TWC news channel (YNN HD) on my Elite. I started a thread at the TiVo.com site on this because I thought it was a guide issue. A person representing TiVo on that forum (Jessica?) had me redo guided setup. When guided setup was complete, my Elite would not display ANY channels.
> 
> I rebooted the tuning adapter and restarted the Elite many times, still NO Channels at all. I did notice, however, that when I rebooted the TA, the non-SDV channels would display. Once the TA had finished rebooting, no channels would display.
> 
> Having grown frustrated with TiVo support, I contacted TWC via twitter. They asked me for both my TA and CC serial numbers and then attempted to reauthorize my cable card. This didn't work. The TWC rep contacted the TWC cable card hotline and then said that they are aware of a recent TiVo software update that is causing the problem.
> 
> Funny thing is, I also have a plain old Premiere (with CC & TA) in my bedroom that works fine. The TWC rep said that Premiere didn't get the new TiVo software update, while the Elite did. A quick check of the TiVos menus showed the Elite had a different (newer) software version: 20.2.1.2-01-2-758
> 
> TWC said they would notify me when TiVo told them there was a resolution to my issue. In the meantime, they told me to unplug the USB cord between my TA and TiVo so I could receive the non-SDV channels. This doesn't help me with the season premiere of Breaking Bad tonight on AMC (a SDV channel).


 Interesting. I recently had a bear of a time getting an Elite unit going. Initially I had problems with signal where 2 out of 4 tuners would not tune anything and I eventually moved to a different cable drop. I ended up having to run guided setup 3 times (once without CC and TA) to get things working. The whole process was much harder than any TiVo unit I've had before. It did have the newest software on it after going through 1st guided setup and rebooting.
Both times that things didn't work guided setup never prompted me to check the lineup by tuning to a channel (usually 14=CNN). The 3rd time I did guided setup it did prompt me to check a channel and that's when things started working properly. I assumed it was just Elite having problems with signal but maybe there's a software bug component to it.
Seems to be mostly working now but I've had a couple of unattended reboots I know about so does not seem very stable.


----------



## MC Hammer

skaggs said:


> I lost all my cable channels on my Elite a few days ago. The whole thing started when I couldn't get the local TWC news channel (YNN HD) on my Elite. I started a thread at the TiVo.com site on this because I thought it was a guide issue. A person representing TiVo on that forum (Jessica?) had me redo guided setup. When guided setup was complete, my Elite would not display ANY channels.
> 
> I rebooted the tuning adapter and restarted the Elite many times, still NO Channels at all. I did notice, however, that when I rebooted the TA, the non-SDV channels would display. Once the TA had finished rebooting, no channels would display.
> 
> Having grown frustrated with TiVo support, I contacted TWC via twitter. They asked me for both my TA and CC serial numbers and then attempted to reauthorize my cable card. This didn't work. The TWC rep contacted the TWC cable card hotline and then said that they are aware of a recent TiVo software update that is causing the problem.
> 
> Funny thing is, I also have a plain old Premiere (with CC & TA) in my bedroom that works fine. The TWC rep said that Premiere didn't get the new TiVo software update, while the Elite did. A quick check of the TiVos menus showed the Elite had a different (newer) software version: 20.2.1.2-01-2-758
> 
> TWC said they would notify me when TiVo told them there was a resolution to my issue. In the meantime, they told me to unplug the USB cord between my TA and TiVo so I could receive the non-SDV channels. This doesn't help me with the season premiere of Breaking Bad tonight on AMC (a SDV channel).


That is the same software revision that is running on all Premieres. The 758 at the end doesn't indicate a newer version - its the first 3 numbers of your TSN. The version number is listed before the -xx-x-xxx (20.2.1.2).

Have to say, seems clear that it is a Time Warner issue as evidenced by your Premiere running with no issues. They were probably just blowing smoke by attempting to pin the blame on Tivo.


----------



## skaggs

I called the TWC Cablecard hotlines about 5 minutes ago and the rep immediately told me that they have about 25 TiVo Elite customers with the same issue. He ran me through the diagnostic screens and checked my readings, which were all OK. He said TWC notified TiVo and TiVo does not have a resolution at this time.


----------



## MC Hammer

skaggs said:


> I called the TWC Cablecard hotlines about 5 minutes ago and the rep immediately told me that they have about 25 TiVo Elite customers with the same issue. He ran me through the diagnostic screens and checked my readings, which were all OK. He said TWC notified TiVo and TiVo does not have a resolution at this time.


Odd. I wonder why it is only affecting the Elites/XL4s and not regular Premieres. Hardware is the only difference between the two.


----------



## moyekj

MC Hammer said:


> Odd. I wonder why it is only affecting the Elites/XL4s and not regular Premieres. Hardware is the only difference between the two.


 The tuners in Elite are completely different (even different IC maker) and they have to interact with CC, TA & associated software, so it's a pretty major difference.


----------



## sldavis1952

I looked at my cable modem and it is showing 6.5 dBmV downstream. 
Tivo support or the Longview Cable techs have never said anything about dBmV levels. What effect does an abnormal level have on a Premiere?



MC Hammer said:


> That doesn't sound right. Typical dBmV levels on a CATV system are usually -10dBmV to +10dBmV.


----------



## skaggs

skaggs said:


> I lost all my cable channels on my Elite a few days ago. The whole thing started when I couldn't get the local TWC news channel (YNN HD) on my Elite. I started a thread at the TiVo.com site on this because I thought it was a guide issue. A person representing TiVo on that forum (Jessica?) had me redo guided setup. When guided setup was complete, my Elite would not display ANY channels.
> 
> I rebooted the tuning adapter and restarted the Elite many times, still NO Channels at all. I did notice, however, that when I rebooted the TA, the non-SDV channels would display. Once the TA had finished rebooting, no channels would display.
> 
> Having grown frustrated with TiVo support, I contacted TWC via twitter. They asked me for both my TA and CC serial numbers and then attempted to reauthorize my cable card. This didn't work. The TWC rep contacted the TWC cable card hotline and then said that they are aware of a recent TiVo software update that is causing the problem.
> 
> Funny thing is, I also have a plain old Premiere (with CC & TA) in my bedroom that works fine. The TWC rep said that Premiere didn't get the new TiVo software update, while the Elite did. A quick check of the TiVos menus showed the Elite had a different (newer) software version: 20.2.1.2-01-2-758
> 
> TWC said they would notify me when TiVo told them there was a resolution to my issue. In the meantime, they told me to unplug the USB cord between my TA and TiVo so I could receive the non-SDV channels. This doesn't help me with the season premiere of Breaking Bad tonight on AMC (a SDV channel).


Here's the response from TiVo_Jessica...apparently my Elite has cached the wrong version of the channel map from my tuning adapter...she recommends wiping the hard drive via, "clear and delete".



> I apologize that you are having problems with your Elite. The Elite was on the incorrect lineup, so in order to receive the channel that you were requesting, it was necessary to repeat the channel portion of guided set up. The issue that you are describing sounds as though the Elite has cached a version of the channel map from your Tuning Adapter, and the Tuning Adapter and Elite are no longer compatible. This would not have anything to do with your software. The Premiere and the Elite actually have the same software version. The final three numbers of the software update are the first three numbers of your TiVo Service Number. They also indicate what type of TiVo the software is installed on.
> 
> For example - TiVo Premiere: 746; TiVo Premiere XL: 748; TiVo Premiere XL4: 758
> 
> There have been very few reports of issues similar to yours. Other customers have reported success by doing a clear and delete all on their TiVo's, which would clear out the cached version of the channel map downloaded from your Tuning Adapter. This would also require that your CableCARD be paired again once the process is complete. To be clear, this process would delete all recordings and preferences from the DVR. I would recommend backing up programs on your computer using TiVo desktop, and backing up season passes on your Premiere using the season pass manager.


----------



## MC Hammer

skaggs said:


> Here's the response from TiVo_Jessica...apparently my Elite has cached the wrong version of the channel map from my tuning adapter...she recommends wiping the hard drive via, "clear and delete".


Hmmm, sounds a bit like BS to me. It'll be interesting to see if the C&DE does anything.


----------



## moyekj

One would think that repeating guided setup should be sufficient to clear out any channel list cache since one of the options obviously is to change lineups. I think that's probably why I had to re-run guided setup more than once to clear out bad cache.


----------



## c3po33

I'm on Comcast in South FL and yesterday after I transferred a show and tried to play in on my Elite all I got was a black screen. When I back out of it I could see the menus (in SD) but the background was black. When I go to live TV it would say something about signal strength but then after a few seconds the channels would comeback. If I went back to the video recording it would happen all over again.

Restarted but still happens intermittently. Is this because of a Tivo software update or what, because my 2 Tivo HDs are working fine? Also yesterday I got kicked out of watching something on my Tivo HD when an emergency broadcast went on and it froze the machine for a few minutes. I wonder if this might also have something to do with what is happening on the Elite. I remember a few months ago after an emergency broadcast 2 or 3 of my Tivo's completely froze and I had to unplug them to get them back up.

Also before video starts playing, I now see a black screen for 1 or 2 seconds instead of the grey screen I would always see before.


----------



## mooneydriver

Exact same problem. Six month old Premiere Elite on Comcast cable in California. Happened a few weeks ago and once again yesterday. Inability to replay recorded video tells me that it's likely a software problem on the Tivo and NOT a Comcast problem. Reboot resolved the problem both times. Older Series 3 Tivo continued to operate normally during both episodes, so I know that it's not a cable problem. Haven't called Tivo yet. I hope they are following this thread.



markfheil said:


> This just happened to me this morning. No signal message on all channels AND none of my RECORDED shows would play. Well, they would play, but no sound or picture, just the green progress bar showed. Even downloaded videos would not play. Did a restart from the menu and its all back to normal. I'm assuming the flash video player crashed?


----------



## mooneydriver

Another bit of information. The last loss of channels happened while I was recording a show. It stopped recording in the middle of the show and lost all channels. Today, I watched that recording all the way to the point where the recording stopped. At that point, I was no longer able to command the Tivo further. Not able to bring up the guide, go to live tv, or go to the Tivo menu.

It seems that there was something in the recorded data stream that corrupts the Tivo software, and it is repeatable - it corrupts the Tivo every time that recording is replayed. This is a good clue, and it may help Tivo figure out the cause of this problem (if they are following this thread).


----------



## moyekj

mooneydriver said:


> Another bit of information. The last loss of channels happened while I was recording a show. It stopped recording in the middle of the show and lost all channels. Today, I watched that recording all the way to the point where the recording stopped. At that point, I was no longer able to command the Tivo further. Not able to bring up the guide, go to live tv, or go to the Tivo menu.
> 
> It seems that there was something in the recorded data stream that corrupts the Tivo software, and it is repeatable - it corrupts the Tivo every time that recording is replayed. This is a good clue, and it may help Tivo figure out the cause of this problem (if they are following this thread).


TiVo representatives are monitoring tivo.com forums so you should post there. See:
TiVo Support Representatives Now Monitoring forums.tivo.com


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## sldavis1952

mooneydriver said:


> Another bit of information. The last loss of channels happened while I was recording a show. It stopped recording in the middle of the show and lost all channels. Today, I watched that recording all the way to the point where the recording stopped. At that point, I was no longer able to command the Tivo further. Not able to bring up the guide, go to live tv, or go to the Tivo menu.
> 
> It seems that there was something in the recorded data stream that corrupts the Tivo software, and it is repeatable - it corrupts the Tivo every time that recording is replayed. This is a good clue, and it may help Tivo figure out the cause of this problem (if they are following this thread).


I would suggest calling Tivo support and let them know about this. That is a good clue. I have watched a portion of the programs that have stopped recording, but have always deleted before it had reached the end. Next time it happens I will let it play and see if I can reproduce what happened with you.


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## mrsean

Last night, I lost all channels for the second time on a regular Premiere. The first I called Verizon and they instructed me to restart the TiVo and then all my channels came back. The second time restarting brought my channels back again.

Nothing has changed with my TiVo/FIOS in over a year. Also, I checked the coxial connections to make sure they remain secure. I first noticed this problem starting shortly after the last minor update. Although I don't want to blame the 20.2.1.2 update, TiVo's propensity to introduce bugs with along with new features has been well documented on this site. 

I will call TiVo to make then aware of this soon.


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## rogmatic

I lose my channels about once a week and they always come back on a reboot. I have called TiVo several times, tried signal boosters and attenuators but nothing has worked. Very frustrating when my Premiere and HD work perfectly fine


----------



## stcaudle12

You gotta think this is a software bug they will be fixing any day right?


----------



## rogmatic

I don't think they are going to fix it. When I call Tivo they say no one else is having this issue and it is the cable company's fault - that my signal strength is bad.


----------



## rogmatic

I got a weird message yesterday that asked me to press select or lose my channels. It then said to call my cable company. Makes me wonder if this is why I lose channels ounce a week.


----------



## bigguy126

Just wanted to add this thread since tivo support is monitoring. Had my first experience of losing all channels Had elite for 2 months. Re-boot corrected it. I have a HD and it was not effected. Obviously, that rules out cable signal.


----------



## jrtroo

Bigguy123 -

I think you are misunderstanding what tivo is monitoring. While we happen to know that some individuals do review and post on this site, this activity is unofficial. The front page on tivocommunity is referring to the tivo forums on the tivo site: http://forums.tivo.com.


----------



## kp921

Started having this same issue (loss of channels) on Sunday. Has pretty much happened once per day since. There was a really bad storm Saturday, which caused a power loss for a few seconds. Not sure if that has anything to do with it (i.e. damaging Tivo and/or cable card) or if it is just a coincidence. We have 2 premieres and a series 3. This only appears to be happening on one of the premieres. It happens to be our oldest premiere, which we have had since they came out a couple years ago. With the exception of some of the well known glitches that the premiere software had when it first came out, it had been running smoothly and rarely had any issues and never had this particular issue.  

We recently relocated from Denver, CO to a much smaller city in Iowa. We had comcast in Denver. Unfortunately, they don't provide cable in our new location so we now have a small cable company called USA Communications. They are actually running fiber, so there is a fiber-to-RF converter in our house that supplies the RF signal to our Tivos. Because they are such a small company, they have little experience with Tivos and cable cards. In fact, we are only the 2nd customer to have a Tivo. They required us to drop off our Tivos at their office to get the cable cards installed. Their office isn't even in our city. It is in a small town more than 30 minutes away from us. They didn't seem to care about the new FCC rules requiring them to allow self-install of cable cards and refused to install them at our house because "it takes too long - up to 3 hours". They obviously are clueless. Comcast installed them in about 10 minutes. Anywho, THEY are my only real variable here as nothing else has changed. Never had any problems until I started using their products. Perhaps something has gone awry inside my Tivo, but I'm leaning more towards the cable card/incoming signal as the problem. For starters, our first 3 weeks of service before this channel loss phenomenon wasn't exactly perfect. Some channels would take several seconds to "find" the signal. They would display the "looking for signal" message and if you waited long enough, the channel would finally come in. Some channels would be fine one day and then not exist the next. Other times you'd turn to a channel and there would be no signal, then if you hit the channel up/down a couple of times, the channel would magically appear. VERY flakey cable card performance. So it (or the signal itself) is my #1 suspect.

What I don't understand is why Tivo doesn't implement a simple watchdog timer to fix this problem. I'm sure they can do a software reset of the cable card without having to manually reboot the entire Tivo every time the cable card fails. 

I think I'm going to swap out the cable cards between our 2 premieres and see if the problem persists or follows the cable card. If it follows the card, then we have our answer.

I'm also wondering if signal strength is an issue. We have 8 cable drops throughout our house. They used an 8-way splitter for this. Not a problem to do this, but it does create an 11dB drop. In Denver, we had the same thing, but also included an 11dB amp prior to the splitter to compensate for the dB loss. So I'm wondering if an amp would solve the problem. At the same time, if it was a signal issue, I would have to believe the problem would exist on the other tivos, too, which it does not. But maybe it is on the hairy edge of the threshold required by the cable card and therefore some work while others don't.


----------



## sldavis1952

It would seem to be an easy software fix to write a watchdog routine to reset the cable card. But Tivo would have to acknowledge they have a bug first.



kp921 said:


> Started having this same issue (loss of channels) on Sunday. Has pretty much happened once per day since. There was a really bad storm Saturday, which caused a power loss for a few seconds. Not sure if that has anything to do with it (i.e. damaging Tivo and/or cable card) or if it is just a coincidence. We have 2 premieres and a series 3. This only appears to be happening on one of the premieres. It happens to be our oldest premiere, which we have had since they came out a couple years ago. With the exception of some of the well known glitches that the premiere software had when it first came out, it had been running smoothly and rarely had any issues and never had this particular issue.
> 
> We recently relocated from Denver, CO to a much smaller city in Iowa. We had comcast in Denver. Unfortunately, they don't provide cable in our new location so we now have a small cable company called USA Communications. They are actually running fiber, so there is a fiber-to-RF converter in our house that supplies the RF signal to our Tivos. Because they are such a small company, they have little experience with Tivos and cable cards. In fact, we are only the 2nd customer to have a Tivo. They required us to drop off our Tivos at their office to get the cable cards installed. Their office isn't even in our city. It is in a small town more than 30 minutes away from us. They didn't seem to care about the new FCC rules requiring them to allow self-install of cable cards and refused to install them at our house because "it takes too long - up to 3 hours". They obviously are clueless. Comcast installed them in about 10 minutes. Anywho, THEY are my only real variable here as nothing else has changed. Never had any problems until I started using their products. Perhaps something has gone awry inside my Tivo, but I'm leaning more towards the cable card/incoming signal as the problem. For starters, our first 3 weeks of service before this channel loss phenomenon wasn't exactly perfect. Some channels would take several seconds to "find" the signal. They would display the "looking for signal" message and if you waited long enough, the channel would finally come in. Some channels would be fine one day and then not exist the next. Other times you'd turn to a channel and there would be no signal, then if you hit the channel up/down a couple of times, the channel would magically appear. VERY flakey cable card performance. So it (or the signal itself) is my #1 suspect.
> 
> What I don't understand is why Tivo doesn't implement a simple watchdog timer to fix this problem. I'm sure they can do a software reset of the cable card without having to manually reboot the entire Tivo every time the cable card fails.
> 
> I think I'm going to swap out the cable cards between our 2 premieres and see if the problem persists or follows the cable card. If it follows the card, then we have our answer.
> 
> I'm also wondering if signal strength is an issue. We have 8 cable drops throughout our house. They used an 8-way splitter for this. Not a problem to do this, but it does create an 11dB drop. In Denver, we had the same thing, but also included an 11dB amp prior to the splitter to compensate for the dB loss. So I'm wondering if an amp would solve the problem. At the same time, if it was a signal issue, I would have to believe the problem would exist on the other tivos, too, which it does not. But maybe it is on the hairy edge of the threshold required by the cable card and therefore some work while others don't.


----------



## L David Matheny

sldavis1952 said:


> It would seem to be an easy software fix to write a watchdog routine to reset the cable card. But Tivo would have to acknowledge they have a bug first.


TiVo could claim (accurately maybe) that the bug is in the cable card firmware. But if they could develop a watchdog routine or other workaround to keep the cable card from causing problems, everyone would benefit.


----------



## slowbiscuit

Just wanted to add my experience of this happening on a 2 month old Elite. Was playing back an ongoing recording of the PGA Championship on Saturday when playback froze up completely (I was about 10 minutes behind live). I could back out to the menus but the background stayed as the frozen golf course screen, not the normal Tivo menu background. Switching any of the tuners to live TV resulted in the 'problem with signal, trying again' message.

Switched inputs to my TV cable in (HD clear QAM) and of course the cable signal is fine. Rebooting the Tivo cleared up the issue. Will have to pull/reinsert the card next time since that seems to be a faster trick to fix it, but if this happens on a regular basis I'm putting the Elite on fleabay and going back to my old HD because it never does this.


----------



## slowbiscuit

Forgot to add one more strange thing about the picture freeze - after I rebooted I found that the two recordings I had going didn't stop, they actually continued until the reboot even though the tuners were complaining about the signal when I tried to go live. There was no pixelation or any hint of a bad signal in the recordings.


----------



## JosephB

I have Charter, 2 Cisco TAs, and 2 Scientific Atlanta cable cards plus 2 regular TiVo Premiers, and I have this problem a lot. I usually don't lose ALL channels, but most of the time about 50% of my digital channels don't work. It started happening right before Charter made a significant addition of HD channels. The problem happens on both of the Tivos.

Sometimes a reboot of the TA and/or the Tivo will solve the issue, and it was completely resolved for a week or two after Charter added the new channels, but it slowly came back. It's actually a little worse because now not only do the digital channels not come in at all sometimes, it's started to mix up the analog channels. I think it's a TA or headend problem because sometimes I can be watching a digital channel and it'll "switch" to another channel--the Tivo doesn't change channels, but the video stream changes as if that QAM channel has a new stream on it.


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## ghostrider45

My 4 month old Elite is losing all channels about once every 3 weeks, always on a Sunday evening when I have a lot of things set to record. The Elite cannot find signal on any channel, on any tuner. Recordings made during this period are blank. A reboot brings the tuners back.

Meanwhile my trusty Series 3 boxes chug along merrily without any hiccups. 

I'm glad I left them up as backups, but I can't decommission them because of the Elite problems. The Elite has lots of nice new features, but they don't matter if the box can't handle basic recording chores.

Tivo, we need a fix for this! Your product needs to be more robust! I shouldn't have to run backup Series 3 Tivos just to ensure that I get my recordings! 

I'm debating dumping the Elite and just keeping the Series 3 boxes. 

BTW I am on Cox in Metairie, LA, using Motorola Cablecard and TA.


----------



## slowbiscuit

Yeah and if anyone says it's a TA problem, that's not it - I'm on Comcast with no TAs but I've only seen the problem once so far. TAs may have something to do with it, but it's likely that the tuners have an issue with a sporadic signal fluctuation or something.


----------



## danix180

Had the same issue this morning.

I'm on WOW in Chicago with a Tivo premiere. Been 2 weeks tivo customer. 

This morning I lost all my channels. I couldn't even playback the recorded shows. Just black screen. 

I had do to a hard reboot ( which takes 5 min ) to restore the channels. I'm not very happy right now.


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## shamilian

Same issue for me, black screen, I can rewind and see where it starts to go bad... I have 2 premieres and multiple HDs, on FIOS system, it only happens on one of the premieres. 

I use to reboot, but I found that pulling the cablecard, then reinserting the cablecard clears the problem...


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## sldavis1952

Lost all channels again on the Tivo Premiere. Tivo displayed, "Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again." Restarted and channels came back. Yesterday we had a brief power outage due to a thunderstorm and the Tivo restarted when the power came back on.


----------



## rcb929

I have the same thing no channels, but for two weeks using Fios.
I had two different tects come out and they had no idea about cable card!
My RS Uncorrected is about 5000 - 50000. Cant get help from Verizon!!!!
If any one has any ideas please let me know.
Thanks


----------



## ShayL

rcb929 said:


> I have the same thing no channels, but for two weeks using Fios.
> I had two different tects come out and they had no idea about cable card!
> My RS Uncorrected is about 5000 - 50000. Cant get help from Verizon!!!!
> If any one has any ideas please let me know.
> Thanks


Wow that's a lot of uncorrected packets. Have you checked your splitter(s) and coax connections? How many TVs do you have?


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## rcb929

I have 2 HD, 1 Premiere and 1 xl4 that's not working.
Just change my splitter from a 5way 11.5db to an 8way 12db.
I move the box to 3 different rooms in the house. I just order this 20dB Variable Attenuator and a set of 3,6, & 10db In-Line Attenuator.


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## rcb929

bump


----------



## L David Matheny

rcb929 said:


> I have 2 HD, 1 Premiere and 1 xl4 that's not working.
> Just change my splitter from a 5way 11.5db to an 8way 12db.
> I move the box to 3 different rooms in the house. I just order this 20dB Variable Attenuator and a set of 3,6, & 10db In-Line Attenuator.


With all the uncorrected errors you mentioned previously, it does sound like you have a weak or noisy signal for some reason. If you just changed your (only?) splitter, it seems unlikely that it's the problem. And with an 8-way splitter already attenuating your signal by 12dB, I doubt that more attenuation will help. Maybe there's a corroded connector outside, on your house or on their pole. You could try connecting a TiVo ahead of the 8-way splitter as a test to see if you get fewer errors that way.


----------



## ShayL

L David Matheny said:


> With all the uncorrected errors you mentioned previously, it does sound like you have a weak or noisy signal for some reason. If you just changed your (only?) splitter, it seems unlikely that it's the problem. And with an 8-way splitter already attenuating your signal by 12dB, I doubt that more attenuation will help. Maybe there's a corroded connector outside, on your house or on their pole. You could try connecting a TiVo ahead of the 8-way splitter as a test to see if you get fewer errors that way.


The FIOS coax starts at the ONT so it has to be wiring inside of the house unless the ONT has issues. Can you a coax cable from the ONT directly the TiVO?


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## L David Matheny

ShayL said:


> The FIOS coax starts at the ONT so it has to be wiring inside of the house unless the ONT has issues. Can you a coax cable from the ONT directly the TiVO?


Oops. I'm OTA only, and I forgot that FIOS is optical fiber to the house. But can't there still be outside problems with the fiber-optic signal or connections, or would that present differently?


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## rcb929

Update;
Want to BestBuy pickup an new xl4 and it works, but I still have about 5000 RS Uncorrected & 30 RS corrected, SNR 37db & single 93.
As of now I have not activated the tivo services.
I have been on the phone with tivo for three weeks and they insisted that my box was good! But now they are sending me a NEW in the box one.
I have Verizon coming out tomorrow (9/1) any suggestion??

P.S.
got a PM from some one saying that they were from tivo and wanted my:
TSN (TiVo Service Number) :
Your TiVo account email:
Your TiVo account Phone #: 
He said that "this information will allow me to find your TiVo account and document our support efforts accordingly" 
Who do I forward this PM to?
Thanks


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## ghostrider45

I received a similar PM but can't respond because I only have 8 posts.


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## sldavis1952

My Tivo displayed, "This channel is not authorized. Contact your cable
provider for more information." This was for 8 channels only, Espn Espn2 Bravo, TNT, etc. I called Longview cable and the tech sent a signal and the channels were restored. I called Tivo support and asked what would happen if the Tivo was recording a show on a channel and it became unauthorized. Would it cause the Tivo to lose all channels? I ask the Tivo tech to report the issue to software development support. Maybe they can find a software solution to the problem of losing all channels.


----------



## rogmatic

I have been having lost signal issues with TWC since I got the Elite. I have one HD box and one Premiere and both work flawlessly, and the HD never had an issue with the same outlet as the Elite. So, I figured I got a bad Elite. But I got a new Elite and have the same issue, maybe even worse. It seems to be worse when I use Netflix, but that is not the sole answer. I am having TWC this week to try to fix it - I do have a lot of RS uncorrected errors and high signal and SNR numbers, so maybe they can do something to help it.


----------



## sldavis1952

I've noticed with my Premiere that it seems to be worse when I watch Netflix, but I think there are other factors too. I had a cluster of losing all signals when we had thunderstorms this summer. I've had my Premiere replaced by Tivo, the cable card replaced, the cable company checked my signal and put in new splitters, but I still have intermittent lose of all signals. My series 2 has worked fine since 2004. I don't think Tivo has a fully baked HD product. 


rogmatic said:


> I have been having lost signal issues with TWC since I got the Elite. I have one HD box and one Premiere and both work flawlessly, and the HD never had an issue with the same outlet as the Elite. So, I figured I got a bad Elite. But I got a new Elite and have the same issue, maybe even worse. It seems to be worse when I use Netflix, but that is not the sole answer. I am having TWC this week to try to fix it - I do have a lot of RS uncorrected errors and high signal and SNR numbers, so maybe they can do something to help it.


----------



## sldavis1952

Premiere lost all channels again at about 7 PM. HD channels were pixelating. SD channels were black 
screen, on SD channels Tivo displayed, "Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again." 
I pulled cable card and reinserted it. All the channels came back okay. It rained most of the day. 
Here we go again.


----------



## rogmatic

I talked to TiVo and they seem to acknowledge the xl4 needs a stronger signal because it includes a splitter inside of it. They told me to go back to using the signal booster which seems to help. Time will tell if it holds up long term. I am dubious.


----------



## tivosupport_taylor

TiVo Support is aware that some users are having an issue where channels appear to stop tuning properly at random and where video is restored via a reboot or reseating of the CableCARD. TiVo would like to resolve this issue for our customers and, if you are experiencing this problem, we could use your help.

If you are experiencing issues related to tuning on your Premiere 4 or XL4 that is temporarily resolved after a reboot, we would like your help in capturing some information and diagnostic logs from your DVR.

Please PRIVATE-MESSAGE one of the following TiVo Support Employees.

&#8226; tivosupport_jessica
&#8226; tivosupport_spencer
&#8226; tivosupport_taylor
&#8226; tivosupport_eric

Please let them know your&#8230;

&#8226; TSN or TiVo Serial Number
&#8226; How often the issue occurs
&#8226; Which channels drop
&#8226; Any other details you wish to share

Please do not publicly post your account information. We would like to protect the privacy of your account. 

Thank you.


----------



## gteague

tivosupport_taylor said:


> TiVo Support is aware that some users are having an issue where channels appear to stop tuning properly at random and where video is restored via a reboot or reseating of the CableCARD. TiVo would like to resolve this issue for our customers and, if you are experiencing this problem, we could use your help.
> 
> If you are experiencing issues related to tuning on your Premiere 4 or XL4 that is temporarily resolved after a reboot, we would like your help in capturing some information and diagnostic logs from your DVR.
> 
> Please PRIVATE-MESSAGE one of the following TiVo Support Employees.
> 
> • tivosupport_jessica
> • tivosupport_spencer
> • tivosupport_taylor
> • tivosupport_eric
> 
> Please let them know your&#8230;
> 
> • TSN or TiVo Serial Number
> • How often the issue occurs
> • Which channels drop
> • Any other details you wish to share
> 
> Please do not publicly post your account information. We would like to protect the privacy of your account.
> 
> Thank you.


so why so late with this admission when i experienced 6-9 months of tivo/catv hell after purchase of my elite late last year? even though i had a special support 'team' (i recognize spencer on your list who is a most excellent tech--no complaints whatsoever there--assigned to my issue by tivo-margaret. the tivo team and i worked on this issue for months, but tivo kept referring me to the cable company and kept asking me to get new cable cards over and over and over and over again until they refused to talk to me anymore.

and why have my problems pretty much disappeared as of about 4-6 months ago with no changes on my part except a 'magickal-thinking' routine that simultaneously records 4xSD channels at a certain time every day?

i did ask tivo-margaret to try to get the software engineers to program in a soft-reset routine when the tivo detects multiple channels that have stopped responding so that re-seating the cable card would not be necessary, but unless they implemented this routine only on my machine, i have seen no evidence that such a routine is being worked on or promulgated.

btw, since you never really asked me for any diagnostic info or logs, i provided it here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=481894

/guy


----------



## MeInDallas

gteague said:


> so why so late with this admission when i experienced 6-9 months of tivo/catv hell after purchase of my elite late last year? even though i had a special support 'team' (i recognize spencer on your list who is a most excellent tech--no complaints whatsoever there--assigned to my issue by tivo-margaret. the tivo team and i worked on this issue for months, but tivo kept referring me to the cable company and kept asking me to get new cable cards over and over and over and over again until they refused to talk to me anymore.
> 
> and why have my problems pretty much disappeared as of about 4-6 months ago with no changes on my part except a 'magickal-thinking' routine that simultaneously records 4xSD channels at a certain time every day?
> 
> i did ask tivo-margaret to try to get the software engineers to program in a soft-reset routine when the tivo detects multiple channels that have stopped responding so that re-seating the cable card would not be necessary, but unless they implemented this routine only on my machine, i have seen no evidence that such a routine is being worked on or promulgated.
> 
> /guy


Scratching my head over here too, after 3 Elites with the same issue


----------



## sldavis1952

tivosupport_taylor said:


> TiVo Support is aware that some users are having an issue where channels appear to stop tuning properly at random and where video is restored via a reboot or reseating of the CableCARD. TiVo would like to resolve this issue for our customers and, if you are experiencing this problem, we could use your help.
> 
> If you are experiencing issues related to tuning on your Premiere 4 or XL4 that is temporarily resolved after a reboot, we would like your help in capturing some information and diagnostic logs from your DVR.
> 
> Please PRIVATE-MESSAGE one of the following TiVo Support Employees.
> 
>  tivosupport_jessica
>  tivosupport_spencer
>  tivosupport_taylor
>  tivosupport_eric
> 
> Please let them know your
> 
>  TSN or TiVo Serial Number
>  How often the issue occurs
>  Which channels drop
>  Any other details you wish to share
> 
> Please do not publicly post your account information. We would like to protect the privacy of your account.
> 
> Thank you.


I PM'd tivosupport_spencer my information. I sent him my personal logs I have been keeping as well as a link to this thread. Hope Tivo can find what the problem is.


----------



## sldavis1952

7:12 AM 9/24/2012 - 
Premiere lost all channels again. Tivo displayed on SD channels, "Problem with the signal on this 
cable channel. Trying again." On HD channels displayed, "This channel is not authorized. Contact your cable
provider for more information." All channels showed a black screen. Reseated cable card and 
all channels came back.


----------



## Kingpcgeek

Happened to me for the first time last night on non SDV channels. The only channel that was working was the one on tuner one (ESPN2) that I had been watching in the morning. Missed three recordings on CBS & FOX since I wasn't home to see the problem. Rebooted and all was back fine.


----------



## sldavis1952

I got a pm from Tivo support. He said that engineering had turned logging on, on my unit. Hope they can find the problem.


----------



## moyekj

sldavis1952 said:


> I got a pm from Tivo support. He said that engineering had turned logging on, on my unit. Hope they can find the problem.


 So you should not jump through hoops trying to prevent the problem anymore so they have more data to look at?


----------



## rogmatic

I assume that no one has found a fix. Has anyone been able to convince Tivo to replace the Elite with a regular Premiere? I would be thrilled to have 2 working tuners instead of zero.


----------



## kinger19

Same problem here - it can go a few days without happening, while other days it happens multiple times in the same day - very frustrating...


----------



## rogmatic

I am going to try going a few days withou a cable card. I realized that when I pull it out, I can regain signal. I will let you know what I find out.


----------



## sldavis1952

moyekj said:


> So you should not jump through hoops trying to prevent the problem anymore so they have more data to look at?


That is correct. The problem is that the problem is intermittent and has gone as long as 3 months without losing all channels. Lately it has been happening around 1 to 2 weeks. So I go from hoping it doesn't happen as frequent, to I hope it happens so Tivo engineering can collect data to fix the problem.


----------



## sldavis1952

rogmatic said:


> I assume that no one has found a fix. Has anyone been able to convince Tivo to replace the Elite with a regular Premiere? I would be thrilled to have 2 working tuners instead of zero.


I have the problem of losing all channels with a Premiere with 2 tuners. And Tivo has replaced the Premiere and the problem has persisted. So it is not just isolated to Elite's. I would also be thrilled to have 2 working tuners.


----------



## rogmatic

Is everyone having issues using a tuning adapter? I am wondering if the issue is with the cable card or tuning adapter interaction with the Tivo.


----------



## slowbiscuit

It is not a TA issue, my Elite does not have one and has lost signal on all tuners once.


----------



## sldavis1952

rogmatic said:


> Is everyone having issues using a tuning adapter? I am wondering if the issue is with the cable card or tuning adapter interaction with the Tivo.


No I don't have a tuning adapter. I have documented 30 separate times that my Tivo Premiere has lost all channels, since October 3, 2011. There is certainly some issue with the Tivo and cable card interaction. Can't speak to the tuning adapter.


----------



## sldavis1952

Premiere lost all channels again. Premiere displayed on SD channels 3, 11, 72, 68, "Problem with the signal on this 
cable channel. Trying again." On one HD channel 329, some displayed, "This channel is not authorized. Contact 
your cable provider for more information." Other HD Channels 306, 349, 308, 348, 235, 245 were pixelating and 
audio was in and out. We were recording channel 267 The Antique Road Show and were just a little behind the live feed, 
and noticed the pixelating while watching it. After reseating the cable card all cable channels came back.


----------



## rogmatic

FYI, I took out my cable card and have had zero issues since. Yes, I only have 5 channels but at least I have a functioning DVR.


----------



## sldavis1952

rogmatic said:


> FYI, I took out my cable card and have had zero issues since. Yes, I only have 5 channels but at least I have a functioning DVR.


Yes, I have tried this, but haven't left the cable card out for any length of time. I can receive the non-scrambled channels without the cable card.


----------



## sldavis1952

8:00 AM 10/9/2012 -
Premiere lost all channels again. Premiere on SD channels 3, 11, 18, 25, Pixelating, no audio. On HD Channels 265, 
250, 240, 235 displayed, "Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again." Hd Channel 245 pixelating, then
displayed, "This channel is not authorized. Contact your cable provider for more information." HD Channel 349 no audio, 
pixelating and also showing Antique Roadshow from channel 265. HD channels 331, 348, 329 no audio, pixelating. HD channel
displayed, "Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again." After reseating the cable card all cable 
channels came back. I went through the instructions from Tivo Support. Hopefully they got some logs to solve the problem.
This is about the timeframe last year that my Premiere first started losing channels. This is when TBS/TNT started
broadcasting the MLB playoffs.


----------



## sldavis1952

Heard from tivo support. Engineering is looking at my log file.


----------



## sldavis1952

I had a little different situation this morning. I lost all HD channels, but the SD channels were working fine except for channel 66. The Premiere displayed, Problem with signal trying again. It was also trying to record on channel 66 at this time.
The HD channels 235, 247, 302, 310 on live TV displayed Problem with signal... trying again. HD Channels 331 and 349 showed mainly a black screen with a few blocky pixels showing. Reseating the cable card restored the channels that were missing.


----------



## NYHeel

I just started having this issue on one of my premieres. The weird thing is that it has occured for three straight weeks on a Thursday night. I wonder if there's any thing weird about that night. 

Anyway, I'm going to call Tivo later when I'm home because this Premiere has an extended warranty on it, although I do currently have a 2 TB drive in it. I can always put back the original drive.


----------



## sldavis1952

Got the Tivo update 20.2.2. Hope this helps the losing all channels problem.


----------



## rogmatic

I have not had any issues since removing the cable card.


----------



## MeInDallas

sldavis1952 said:


> Got the Tivo update 20.2.2. Hope this helps the losing all channels problem.


Are you still having this issue? I got the new update and the "lost channel syndrome" continues. I really had high hopes the new fall update had fixed this


----------



## sldavis1952

I got the update on 10/30/2012. The last time my Premiere lost all channels was 10/9/2012. It lost all HD channels on 10/25/2012, but the SD channels were working except for SD channel 66. So I haven't had a lose of channels since I got the update.



MeInDallas said:


> Are you still having this issue? I got the new update and the "lost channel syndrome" continues. I really had high hopes the new fall update had fixed this


----------



## rogmatic

I put my card back in last night to see if the problem was fixed - I will let you know.


----------



## eeng

real bummer this has been going on for so long. I have a premiere also with same issues. I have pulled the cable card but I also unplugged tivo. Next time will try with it plugged in, but doesnt seem to be a permanent fix anyway....

I just want to watch my vh1 classic and palladia dang it! ....


----------



## rogmatic

My experiment didn't last 12 hours - no signal again. I think this will be my 5th and final TiVo.


----------



## MeInDallas

I know what you mean. I think this is it for me too. It will probably be springtime before another update comes out, and even then we dont know if this issue will be fixed. People are already talking about a Series 5 Tivo, and they may never even fix the Series 4 like it should be.


----------



## jhjones75

My Elite didn't have this problem for months. I replaced all my splitters at the outside drop and inside and everything worked great. 

After the Fall Update we've started seeing the issue again. About once a week we'll lose Fox or CBS or NBC. Only comes back with a cablecard pull or reboot. I've never gotten a response from the PM's I've sent the Tivo support folks


----------



## MeInDallas

I always get the same response, the "blame the cable company" one, so I just gave up.


----------



## jtnewlands

Perhaps not relevant to his thread but weird - I just had Charter installer here and he said Tivo instructions incorrect for TA hookup - he says split coax out of wall, one goes to RF in on Tivo, other goes to TA RF in, TA RF out not used... only connection is USB. It works - for digital and SDV channels. Before he did this I was getting "not authorized" on all channels above basic cable. Brand new Premiere out of box.


----------



## sldavis1952

I PM'ed Tivo support a couple of times and haven't heard from them either.
The 1st to Spencer about 3 weeks ago and the 2nd to Jessica last week. I wonder if they are still on the forums.



jhjones75 said:


> My Elite didn't have this problem for months. I replaced all my splitters at the outside drop and inside and everything worked great.
> 
> After the Fall Update we've started seeing the issue again. About once a week we'll lose Fox or CBS or NBC. Only comes back with a cablecard pull or reboot. I've never gotten a response from the PM's I've sent the Tivo support folks


----------



## sldavis1952

I heard from tivo support by PM. They are still researching problem with losing channels.


----------



## drewfidelic

I'm now experiencing this problem on my XL4 with Fios. It was happening before the latest software update (the reboot after updating the software fixed it) and since then has happened at least twice in the last week. All channels seem to disappear and it does work fine after rebooting.


----------



## JosephB

I stopped having this problem, it was an issue with my signal levels. I'd definitely start there.


----------



## slowbiscuit

I have not seen this problem at all on my Elite since 20.2.2 came out.


----------



## slowbiscuit

Well I jinxed myself - after posting yesterday, while flipping around live tuners watching college football my Tivo suddenly reported 'problems with signal' on one channel. Was able to flip around to other tuners and back to the problem channel with no issue, but shortly after that I got to a channel with sound and no picture and then my Elite rebooted.

Hmm.... could've been a legit signal issue, but shouldn't have been a reboot. Fortunately it was halftime for the early games.


----------



## sldavis1952

Since I got the 20.2.2 update on 10/30/2012 I haven't experienced the losing all channels problem. I noticed a couple of times on channels I was watching the Premiere would display, "Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again." But after several minutes the channel came back.


----------



## wackymann

This happened to me again this past weekend... unfortunately I was away on vacation, so I missed like 3 days worth of recordings. Boo!!! This same thing had happened to me once when I first got my TiVo Elite, but I figured it was a one-time thing. It had been fine for like a year. I wonder if one of the updates has reintroduced this bug for me? I doubt anything has changed at Comcast.


----------



## sldavis1952

sldavis1952 said:


> Since I got the 20.2.2 update on 10/30/2012 I haven't experienced the losing all channels problem. I noticed a couple of times on channels I was watching the Premiere would display, "Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again." But after several minutes the channel came back.


I jinxed it. Lost all channels tonight. Reseated cable card, but it didn't help. Restarted the Tivo. I was recording on both tuners and watching a recorded show at the time.


----------



## bdnyc

sldavis1952 said:


> I jinxed it. Lost all channels tonight. Reseated cable card, but it didn't help. Restarted the Tivo. I was recording on both tuners and watching a recorded show at the time.


Did you happen to have a channel move in your lineup prior to this happening?


----------



## slowbiscuit

sldavis1952 said:


> Since I got the 20.2.2 update on 10/30/2012 I haven't experienced the losing all channels problem. I noticed a couple of times on channels I was watching the Premiere would display, "Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again." But after several minutes the channel came back.


Yep, that's what I've seen on the Elite too (rarely) after the update. Switching to another channel and back usually fixes it. Haven't seen all channels lost since, but I probably will now after this post.


----------



## sldavis1952

bdnyc said:


> Did you happen to have a channel move in your lineup prior to this happening?


No, not this time. Last time it happened was following a channel move.


----------



## CoxInPHX

sldavis1952 said:


> Since I got the 20.2.2 update on 10/30/2012 I haven't experienced the losing all channels problem. I noticed a couple of times on channels I was watching the Premiere would display, "Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again." But after several minutes the channel came back.





slowbiscuit said:


> Yep, that's what I've seen on the Elite too (rarely) after the update. Switching to another channel and back usually fixes it. Haven't seen all channels lost since, but I probably will now after this post.


I am seeing this also on my Elite, but for me the channel never actually goes black or out completely, It may exhibit a very brief Glitch or monetary pause-like effect, but the message pops up for a few seconds up to maybe 30 secs. I am currently on 20.2.2.1


----------



## spsmyk

I have a Series 3, two Premieres and a Premiere XL4 and I'm convinced that Time Warner stinks (big revelation, huh?)...all four of my units are showing Channel Not Available on dozens of channels. 

Sad thing is that this has happened once a month for the past three months, so I call TWC support and get somebody who wants to roll a truck. I thank them and call the cable card groups top secret number and sit on hold for an hour, to get somebody who is perplexed as to how this happens and they don't believe that it has ever happened before in the history of TWC. So I run from room to room and they zap all of my boxes a half dozen times and finally get them to work.

This has happened about half a dozen times over the past year and a half. I blame SDV and these crappy Cisco tuning adapters, but the last three months have been like clockwork with the exact same issue each time.

Obviously a TiVo fan, but I'm about ready to put my four lifetime units on eBay and cut TWC out of my life (which would be so nice). Thinking about it and how not leasing the crappy TWC equipment makes me more loyal to cable - if I didn't have these Tivos I would have left Time Warner years ago...


----------



## wackymann

wackymann said:


> This happened to me again this past weekend... unfortunately I was away on vacation, so I missed like 3 days worth of recordings. Boo!!! This same thing had happened to me once when I first got my TiVo Elite, but I figured it was a one-time thing. It had been fine for like a year. I wonder if one of the updates has reintroduced this bug for me? I doubt anything has changed at Comcast.


I think I solved my problem. I redid the guided setup and manually selected a new provider by refusing all of the channels it presented to me as "verification". After like 5 refusals, it just gave me a list I could select from. It turns out my town has 2 selections - one called "basic" and one called "extended". I think I was on basic, and it was confusing my cable card - maybe because a lot of the channels were missing or something? I don't know. I am on the extended one now and all seems well. The few channels that used to be wrong in my guide are now correct, and it has been running very solidly ever since. I'm sure not everyone is having this same issue, but you may want to try this method if you've tried everything else. If I had agreed to any of the channels it presented to me (because they were ALL correct), I'm sure it would have just assigned me to basic cable again. Maybe TiVo needs to revisit that algorithm? Or cull through their list of providers and get rid of the obsolete ones?


----------



## moyekj

I never had this problem on my Elite until just yesterday (20.2.2.1 version). Even though red lights were on for recordings they were all 0 size and all 4 tuners were dark. Had to reboot to fix it. I hope this is not a trend with this new software. Note that my 2 tuner Premiere meanwhile with the same software has not had the problem yet.


----------



## vurbano

dkraft said:


> I had no channels on Wednesday morning. Second time this has happened. A restart fixed the problem both times. Not sure what is going on.


its happened to me a couple of times.


----------



## oregonman

moyekj said:


> I never had this problem on my Elite until just yesterday (20.2.2.1 version). Even though red lights were on for recordings they were all 0 size and all 4 tuners were dark. Had to reboot to fix it. I hope this is not a trend with this new software. Note that my 2 tuner Premiere meanwhile with the same software has not had the problem yet.


Same exact thing happened for the first time on my premiere elite a few days ago.


----------



## moyekj

oregonman said:


> Same exact thing happened for the first time on my premiere elite a few days ago.


 By any chance did you have a channel lineup update right around that time? It looks to me like this may be happening every time there is a lineup update. Perhaps that in combination with how TA handles channel/frequency updates is creating a problem such that either the TA or the TiVo needs to be rebooted to fix.


----------



## Teeps

moyekj said:


> By any chance did you have a channel lineup update right around that time? It looks to me like this may be happening every time there is a lineup update. Perhaps that in combination with how TA handles channel/frequency updates is creating a problem such that either the TA or the TiVo needs to be rebooted to fix.


When I checked my XL4 this evening (about 10 minutes ago) only ch 411 worked on live TV.

Yes there was a lineup change, Time Warner added ch.1409.

I did a soft restart and all appears ok at this time.

Software version 20.2.2.1-01-2-758


----------



## oregonman

moyekj said:


> By any chance did you have a channel lineup update right around that time? It looks to me like this may be happening every time there is a lineup update. Perhaps that in combination with how TA handles channel/frequency updates is creating a problem such that either the TA or the TiVo needs to be rebooted to fix.


I don't think I had a lineup change - I don't see anything in the messages. What's a TA? Tuning adapter? I don't have a tuning adapter - I am on FIOS with a cablecard.


----------



## moyekj

Teeps said:


> When I checked my XL4 this evening (about 10 minutes ago) only ch 411 worked on live TV.
> 
> Yes there was a lineup change, Time Warner added ch.1409.
> 
> I did a soft restart and all appears ok at this time.
> 
> Software version 20.2.2.1-01-2-758


 So I think channel lineup changes seem to be one common trigger that can cause loss of all tuners to happen. May be wise to just reboot your TiVo when you get a channel lineup change message.


----------



## Teeps

moyekj said:


> So I think channel lineup changes seem to be one common trigger that can cause loss of all tuners to happen. May be wise to just reboot your TiVo when you get a channel lineup change message.


There have been several lineup changes since my XL4 went on line.
This is the first time for the channel tuning problem.


----------



## moyekj

Teeps said:


> There have been several lineup changes since my XL4 went on line.
> This is the first time for the channel tuning problem.


 I think it's a new failure trigger point for 20.2.2. So far I'm 3 for 3 with tuner failures coinciding with channel lineup updates. Note that I think the channel lineup update has to actually involve a frequency change to trigger the problem (such as a new channel), not just a simple channel rename.


----------



## chrispitude

I recently got 20.2.2. I just tried to watch a recorded show (which it claims to have recorded, from the show's duration information ) but it says:

"The TiVo box was not able to record this program because there was no video signal on the channel. You may have been trying to record on a channel that you don't receive."

This was for a game show on GSN that we have plenty of other episodes of. I'm not sure if this is caused by a similar dropped channel problem. If this is related to 20.2.2, then this has been one of the worst updates I can recall.

Edit: What's weird is there's an episode of that same show on the same show, recorded earlier that day, and it recorded fine. I've checked every other recording on that date and they've all recorded fine too.


----------



## slowbiscuit

moyekj said:


> I think it's a new failure trigger point for 20.2.2. So far I'm 3 for 3 with tuner failures coinciding with channel lineup updates. Note that I think the channel lineup update has to actually involve a frequency change to trigger the problem (such as a new channel), not just a simple channel rename.


I just got a bunch of new channels added and deleted (none that I watch, so I deselected the new ones in the lineup) and saw no tuner issues after that. Fingers crossed, of course.


----------



## moyekj

slowbiscuit said:


> I just got a bunch of new channels added and deleted (none that I watch, so I deselected the new ones in the lineup) and saw no tuner issues after that. Fingers crossed, of course.


 Do you have Tuning Adapter though?


----------



## ghostrider45

My Elite and XL4 have both been doing fine the last few months (20.2.2.2 version), but Saturday evening the Elite lost all channels again. Reboot brought them back.

Tivo really needs to fix this - first and foremost the boxes need to be rock solid DVRs. If they can't be reliable then the rest of the fancy features don't matter.


----------



## moyekj

moyekj said:


> I never had this problem on my Elite until just yesterday (20.2.2.1 version). Even though red lights were on for recordings they were all 0 size and all 4 tuners were dark. Had to reboot to fix it. I hope this is not a trend with this new software. Note that my 2 tuner Premiere meanwhile with the same software has not had the problem yet.


 After I rebooted Elite I thought things were working, but turns out only unencrypted channels would tune, so all recordings from encrypted that were supposed to record since 12/11 did not (reason = not authorized according to History). I had to reboot again to be able to tune encrypted channels. My Elite is so much more problem prone and slow compared to my 2 tuner Premiere.


----------



## MHunter1

My Elite had been freezing every 3 days on average since I bought it in July, but after TiVo updated it with v20.2.2.1 on December 7 it has been rock-solid stable... until tonight when I simply modified a Season Pass and the UI froze on the Please Wait screen for nearly 10 minutes, forcing me to do a hard reboot.


----------



## slowbiscuit

moyekj said:


> Do you have Tuning Adapter though?


Nope, no TAs on Comcast.


----------



## Ziggy86

I am having the same issue, in the past two weeks I had to reboot my Tivo Premiere ELite because all my channels were gone, once it rebooted everything came back.

Has Tivo mentioned that they are aware of this issue?


----------



## bfaz18

I've been having this issue periodically since I first got cable cards and tuning adapters from Cox Arizona in Tucson ( about 6 months ago ).
Once every three weeks to a month, all the channels go black. The Tivos think they're recording but all shows are 0 length or they don't record
due to "lack of signal".
Most of the time, unplugging the power from the Tuning adapter, waiting
for the "The tuning adapter is gone" message, re-plugging the adapter and
waiting for the "The tuning adapter is on" message clears the problem.
Some times, it also requires re-booting the Tivo.
Cox Arizona claims that it's a known problem but that they have no idea
how to fix it. Seems to me, as it is to many in this forum, that it's a problem that Tivo ought to be able to detect and handle, but doesn't.
I have a Premiere XL and two TIVO  HDs with cable cards and tuning adapters. It happens on all of them; it used to happen on all of them at once. In the last couple of months, it tends to happen on one at any given time.
I also have a Premiere with OTA and std cable ( no cable card or tuning adapter ). It never has a problem.


----------



## sldavis1952

Lost all channels again tonight. HD channels were black and Tivo displayed Problem with signal... trying again.
The SD channels were black. Restarted the Tivo. Worked for a couple of minutes and then lost all channels again.
Reseated cable card and it started working again.


----------



## sldavis1952

The Premiere had lost all channels again this morning. I removed cable card and reinserted and it is now working. Tivo support had asked me to do 7-7-7 clear to mark logs before and after removing and inserting the cable card. I pm'ed tivo support Jessica this information.


----------



## slowbiscuit

Man, that sucks. Starting to sound like your Elite has a hardware issue, I haven't had this happen since the 20.2.2 updates. Probably will now that I posted.


----------



## BladeZ

I am also having this problem. I have 3 Premieres in the house, only the XL4 exhibits the problems. All channels dark, TiVo will record blank shows, etc. I do a soft reset and all is well. It has only started happening in past 6 weeks (coincide with latest software rev?). I am on FIOS in long island...


----------



## Ziggy86

BladeZ said:


> I am also having this problem. I have 3 Premieres in the house, only the XL4 exhibits the problems. All channels dark, TiVo will record blank shows, etc. I do a soft reset and all is well. It has only started happening in past 6 weeks (coincide with latest software rev?). I am on FIOS in long island...


Me too, I live in Queens NY and also use FIOS.


----------



## Bierboy

Says who?!


----------



## Distortedloop

Sesame thing here on my Premiere XL the last few days. All channels un-viewable until a reboot of the TiVo. One time I noticed a new message on the reboot that 5 channels had been deleted from my lineup. This is FIOS in Los Angeles.


----------



## moyekj

Had a lineup change message yesterday and, guess what, lost all channels again today on my Elite. Coincidence? Most certainly not. Looks like 20.2.2 + TA + channel lineup change = trouble. Guess I'll just have to try and remember to reboot my Series 4 units after every lineup change just to be sure.


----------



## Distortedloop

My Series 3 has started acting up now, too. I don't watch it often, but two self-reboots last night, followed by a channel deletion message received on the reboot.


----------



## moyekj

Sigh. My Elite again lost ability to decrypt any encrypted channels. Only unencrypted channels would tune. Had to reboot it yet again to fix it. Meanwhile my 2 tuner Premiere has been fine. These 4 tuners units just are not at all reliable from my experience so far - the tuners are inferior to the 2 tuner units.


----------



## bfaz18

After a lineup change, but there have been other updates in which it hasn,t
Occurred. My 2 HDs were not affected.


----------



## moyekj

bfaz18 said:


> After a lineup change, but there have been other updates in which it hasn,t
> Occurred. My 2 HDs were not affected.


 I think it only happens when there's a frequency change such as a new and/or deleted channel, not just channel renaming or channel # change. Some frequency changes can happen without any channel lineup changes which is why even without a channel change message this problem can hit you.


----------



## bfaz18

Yes, in this case there was a lineup change. Today, there was a symptom on my non- cable card premiere which has lifetime. Instead of losing channels, I was greeted with a message that it hadn't been activated, even though it had last contacted TIVO earlier that day. After I initiated another connection to TIVO, it went back to normal. My HDs are still unaffected.


----------



## dkraft

Lost channels. Comcast cable Naples Florida. Restarted TiVo. Took about 10 minutes for channels to start being authorized. There were no new channels added.


----------



## sldavis1952

10:30 AM 1/10/2013 -
Lost internet and all cable tv today. Was about to call cable company and looked outside. Two houses
down was a cable tech guy working on an external cable box. He said he was replacing a module that
had gone bad and that cable and internet would be back on soon. I wonder if this is what has caused
the intermittent outages on my Premiere. I will wait and see. Still the Tivo software should be
robust enough to recover without a restart of the Tivo or reseating the cable card.


----------



## DaveDFW

What is Tivo's position on this? Although I have seen this issue over random and sporadic intervals, I just experienced total loss of tuners on my XL4 twice in one day.

Is anyone at Tivo even working on this issue?

And how is this going to affect Mini sales? Remember this is the platform on which Minis will be totally dependent. Don't bother reserving a tuner for a Mini--none of the tuners will probably work!


----------



## shamilian

DaveDFW said:


> What is Tivo's position on this? Although I have seen this issue over random and sporadic intervals, I just experienced total loss of tuners on my XL4 twice in one day.
> 
> Is anyone at Tivo even working on this issue?
> 
> And how is this going to affect Mini sales? Remember this is the platform on which Minis will be totally dependent. Don't bother reserving a tuner for a Mini--none of the tuners will probably work!


They were researching this months ago.
No word from them.


----------



## MeInDallas

DaveDFW said:


> Is anyone at Tivo even working on this issue?


I had wondered that since January 2012


----------



## rogmatic

Guys, I have given up on fixing this. I pulled the tuning adapter off my elite and am using it as a bedroom unit. At this point, I am just going to wait and see if the next generation unit is compelling and fixes this. If not, then I am probably done with Tivo and will move on to some other solution - maybe satellite based.


----------



## CoxInPHX

Lost both tuners (black screen-showing paused w/ no green progress bar) on my 2 Tuner Premiere tonight. Everything was fine until 7pm when both tuners changed channels and started to record. Both channels were Local HDs non-SDV channels.

I wish I had looked at the DVR Diagnostics before rebooting, but I did not. Haven't had this happen in a while.

The TiVo said the Tuning Adapter was not connected, TA light was steady, SDV channels would not tune, so I rebooted the TA also.
No Line-up changes though.


----------



## mrizzo80

CoxInPHX said:


> Lost both tuners (black screen-showing paused w/ no green progress bar) on my 2 Tuner Premiere tonight. Everything was fine until 7pm when both tuners changed channels and started to record. Both channels were Local HDs non-SDV channels.
> 
> I wish I had looked at the DVR Diagnostics before rebooting, but I did not. Haven't had this happen in a while.
> 
> The TiVo said the Tuning Adapter was not connected, TA light was steady, SDV channels would not tune, so I rebooted the TA also.
> No Line-up changes though.


Interesting. I experienced the inverse of what you did just last night. Was having issues tuning all kinds of stations. Then the top of the hour hit and 2 recordings started (1 local and 1 cable...likely SDV). Fixed my problems instantly.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9487281#post9487281


----------



## BladeZ

So I thought I had resolved my problem by adding the attenuators, as I was good for a few weeks, but this happened again today (perhaps last night and I didn't notice). Same experience as CoxInPHX, black screen, or frozen pixelated screen, paused, no live TV, says either not auth (which isn't true) or no signal on this channel, etc. No lineups changes reported, and this only impacted my XL4. TiVo, PLEASE fix this, it's so frustrating. Reboot resolved all, as usual...


----------



## bfaz18

2 of my 3 TiVos with TAs did it again, after a lineup change here in Tucson with COX, although there have been others without incident since the last outage. I was also setting up a MOCA network at the time when it hit me what was happening. I think this will help others...
I believe the issue is that the TA (CISCO 1520) is crashing, and that as a result the TA cannot pass signals through to the TiVo nor respond to communications from the TiVo through the USB interface - that's why there's no video and the TA needs a power-on cycle. TiVo's culpability in this is in not reporting the loss of communications with the TA, but there's little else they could do. What I did to alleviate the issue was to not run the cable to the TiVo through the TA. Instead, I split the cable before the TA, running one output to the TA and another to the TIVO. In this scenario, the TiVo will be able to get signal even if the TA goes down - it will lose access only to the channels which are not already up on the segment - the major function that the TA is there for. I was able to test this by splitting the cable while the TiVo had black screens on each channel and then swapping the TA-to-TiVo cable with the new split.
So, my question now is: Why can't Cox figure this out?, Why isn't there new firmware to fix given the widespread problems?, and why doesn't TiVo know about it?


----------



## Teeps

bfaz18 said:


> So, my question now is:
> Why can't Cox figure this out?,
> Why isn't there new firmware to fix given the widespread problems?,
> and why doesn't TiVo know about it?


Good questions that need to be asked of Cox and TiVo.

1st question:
Cox has no reason to investigate and remedy the problem until such time the FCC makes them. Or enough of us TiVo users (Ha!) change service providers. (in my area, time warner is the only choice, for use with TiVo.)

2nd question
see above

3rd question
TiVo probably knows, but if the problem IS with the cisco1520, it's beyond their control. Until such time a "case" can be built showing that cox,cisco, etc intentionally harmed TiVo by not addressing a suspected known problem.

Next occurrence; call Cox & TiVo, while the system is in the failed state.


----------



## bfaz18

These were more rhetorical than practical questions.

1st question:
When I reported these problems to Cox last year, they claimed that they were aware of the problem but didn't know how to fix it.


2nd question
Another thread in the Premiere forum references new firmware. I may poke Cox again about getting it.

3rd question
Tivo has made posts in these forums saying that they're monitored and were were looking at the issue, but that was months ago without any updates.
These issue typically happen after support hours. If it happens during support hours, they can have a shot, but the only real complaints concerning Tivo is the lack of notification of communications problems AND the question of whether they're working with Cisco.

The main thrust was to let others know that splitting the cable ahead of the TA allows for continued operation unless and until an "offline" channel needs to be brought "online".


----------



## CoxInPHX

bfaz18 said:


> 2nd question
> Another thread in the Premiere forum references new firmware. I may poke Cox again about getting it.
> 
> The main thrust was to let others know that splitting the cable ahead of the TA allows for continued operation unless and until an "offline" channel needs to be brought "online".


Cox Arizona has the latest Firmware:
FLASH: *STA1.0.0_1520_LR_F.1601* (fixes unknown at this point) Jan 31, 2012
and Image File Version: 1.0.0.1601

Since others are reporting the same issues, and do not use a Tuning Adapter, your suggestion of using a splitter does not solve everyone's issue. Something else with the TiVo Premiere is going on.


----------



## MeInDallas

My area uses Motorola equipment here on TWC and still has the issue so its not exclusive to Cisco either.


----------



## DaveDFW

MeInDallas said:


> My area uses Motorola equipment here on TWC and still has the issue so its not exclusive to Cisco either.


Yes, TWC uses Motorola equipment in my part of the Dallas metroplex and I am also plagued with the losing-all-tuners issue.

Sometimes I am able to go weeks between occurences of tuner loss, but I have experienced it as often as twice in one day. I sent a message to Margret but received no response, so my assumption is that Tivo doesn't care.


----------



## Teeps

DaveDFW said:


> Yes, TWC uses Motorola equipment in my part of the Dallas metroplex and I am also plagued with the losing-all-tuners issue.
> 
> Sometimes I am able to go weeks between occurences of tuner loss, but I have experienced it as often as twice in one day. I sent a message to Margret but received no response, so my assumption is that Tivo doesn't care.


Entirely possible, but I assume she has a "day job" to do before addressing this forum. 
Do we know for sure that it's a TiVo problem?
I've had similar problems with my S3 OLED and it's been worse since tuning adapters were foisted upon us... My anecdote.

Do folks with premiers' with OTA have the same problem?


----------



## DaveDFW

Just another data point. When all four tuners are black, I cannot even tune the channels I know are clear QAM, the locals.

These channels do not depend on the cablecard for decryption, but instead depend on the tuning adapter merely to have the channel map, right? But reseating the cablecard nearly always restores tuner functionality.

So is the problem a combination of cablecard and tuning adapter? This is a question to be answered by the developers.

To the end consumer, it doesn't really matter--the problem we see is that the Premiere line has some fatal defect with its tuners and doesn't reliably operate in a cablecard/tuning adapter environment.

I see no evidence that Tivo as a company is even concerned.


----------



## MeInDallas

DaveDFW said:


> I see no evidence that Tivo as a company is even concerned.


:up: +1


----------



## mrizzo80

Just had TWC #4 come out. He replaced the CableCard and tweaked the internal cable run splitter and amp setup to boost signal levels. The Tuning Adapter, CableCard and outside drop have all been replaced.

No change. Tuning channels is still like playing roulette. All of this started occurring in the last 2 weeks.


----------



## MeInDallas

What city are you in? (if you dont mind me asking)

And what equipment do they use in your area?


----------



## mrizzo80

MeInDallas said:


> What city are you in? (if you dont mind me asking)
> 
> And what equipment do they use in your area?


TWC Southwest Ohio. Cisco STA 1520. I now have a Cisco-branded CableCard with a 2012 date on it. My previous was SA dated sometime in 2008.

Currently (and have always) using the wall outlet -> Tuning Adapter -> TiVo configuration. May attempt the wall outlet -> splitter -> (1 to TiVo) and (1 to T/A) method I read about on here the other day to see if that improves anything at all.


----------



## MeInDallas

I tried everything I could. Everytime I did something different I would get so excited thinking maybe that would work, and sure enough right in the middle of prime time when I had 4 things recording at once POOF all channels were gone. I finally gave up. I do miss my Tivo's but I dont miss the problems I had.


----------



## fritolayguy

XL4 here with TWC and Tuning Adapter in Kansas City area.

I have had some of the same issues as what I have read here, with intermittent channel drops that were typically remedied by tuning to another channel, then returning to the channel that was not tuning correctly. I typically get a black screen, with no banner message about signal or channel authorization.

Then last night, all of the channels were gone, and tried a restart of the system, with no resolution- lost at least 2 recordings as two of the tuners were recording at the time when the channels dropped. Restarted a second time and rebooted the TA as well, and all came back. 

This is getting to be a significant drain on the functionality of a TIVO over the cable company DVR that I have in another room- but from what I have read here, seems like this is more likely a TIVO issue than a TWC issue.

Are there still TIVO moderators that would offer a PM to send them my information so they could log the issues I am having?


----------



## BladeZ

This happened again last night, so that makes it twice this week. XL4, no tuning adapter, FIOS, Long Island. All channels have no signal, recordings were happening, which means I lost shows. We did have high winds and lost internet, but I really have no clue what's causing this, I hope Tivo is on the case.


----------



## DaveDFW

BladeZ said:


> ... I really have no clue what's causing this, I hope Tivo is on the case.


I wouldn't count on it. I suspect all their development is solely focused on the Mini, a mythical extender which may or may not be produced, and the six-tuner flagship, a mythical DVR which may or may not arrive with working tuners.


----------



## atmuscarella

BladeZ said:


> This happened again last night, so that makes it twice this week. XL4, no tuning adapter, FIOS, Long Island. All channels have no signal, recordings were happening, which means I lost shows. We did have high winds and lost internet, but I really have no clue what's causing this, I hope Tivo is on the case.


Are your Cable and Internet both FIOS? Can you actually have the Internet go down but your cable stays up?


----------



## sldavis1952

The Premiere had lost all channels again this morning when I turned on TV at 8 AM. Encrypted 
channels were displaying, "This channel is not authorized. Contact your cable provider for 
more information." Regular channels that I can get without cablecard displayed, "Problem with 
the signal on this cable channel. Trying again." All channels were black. Restarted Tivo and 
channels came back. No tuning adapter, Motorola cablecard, Premiere 2 tuner, version 20.2.2-01-2-746.


----------



## sldavis1952

PM'd the tivosupport guys about the issue and asked for an update. I last heard from tivosupport_jessica in November 2012.
Here is what she said at the time, "We currently suspect that some combination of the video stream data and the CableCARD 
type and software may be involved."


----------



## tomhorsley

sldavis1952 said:


> PM'd the tivosupport guys about the issue and asked for an update. I last heard from tivosupport_jessica in November 2012.
> Here is what she said at the time, "We currently suspect that some combination of the video stream data and the CableCARD
> type and software may be involved."


Or in other words, "We currently suspect that something between the cable company and your TV screen may be involved" .


----------



## sldavis1952

Called Tivo and talked to Tavish and asked for a status update since I hadn't heard from tivosupport
since November 2012. He couldn't give me an update other than that the case was still open. After
asking to speak to his supervisor he came back and said the issue was that they were waiting to hear 
from me on the my cablecard information to forward to engineering. I told him I had pm'd that 
information to tivosupport_jessica on 10-24-2012 and had received a reply from her on 10-27-2012
thanking me for the cablecard information I had sent and she was passing it on to engineering. It 
appears the ball was dropped somewhere on Tivo's side. Tavish said I should get an update in 4 
business days. I will call next Thursday if I don't hear from Tivo.


----------



## DaveDFW

sldavis1952, do you know if there is an open issue with which all of our open complaints can be aggregated?

I also have a support ticket open, but it seems silly for Tivo to attempt addressing each complaint as an isolated issue when there is clearly an endemic problem with the entire platform.

What purpose does it serve to require each end user to jump through the same troubleshooting hoops? "Power-cycle your tivo." "Reseat the cablecard." "Can you try a different cablecard." All these tactics seem like time-wasting diversions for the end users.


----------



## sldavis1952

Good idea, but... 
It took me(and other people) a year Oct. 2011 to Oct. 2012 to get Tivo to acknowledge there was an issue for Tivo engineering to look at.



DaveDFW said:


> sldavis1952, do you know if there is an open issue with which all of our open complaints can be aggregated?
> 
> I also have a support ticket open, but it seems silly for Tivo to attempt addressing each complaint as an isolated issue when there is clearly an endemic problem with the entire platform.
> 
> What purpose does it serve to require each end user to jump through the same troubleshooting hoops? "Power-cycle your tivo." "Reseat the cablecard." "Can you try a different cablecard." All these tactics seem like time-wasting diversions for the end users.


----------



## mrizzo80

A TWC field supervisor called me earlier this week after Tech #4 left without resolving the issue. There is a system-wide alert in TWC's database (I believe entered Jan 9 of this year) that says something along the lines of there being problems with the latest TiVo build causing intermittent tuning loss. Said the solution was to call TiVo and ask for the old version to be pushed to my TiVo.

Called TiVo last night. They have no idea what that guy was talking about. Told me to change the CableCard. I told him I changed it 3 days ago. He told me to change it again. Kinda like my call last week. TiVo told me I had a bad tuning adapter. I told him I just replaced it. He said the new one was defective as well. Anyone see a pattern here? 

They don't acknowledge any widespread tuning issues on the 4-tuner boxes. I've actually talked to 2 or 3 TiVo support people recently; none admit to there being tuning issues. Maybe there is; maybe there isn't.

Called TWC CC Hotline after getting off the phone with TiVo last night. He said my signal levels were out-of-spec (FDC at a +15). Asked him about the TWC tech supervisor suggestion about the Jan 9 system flag. Said he's known about that issue since last August and that the latest released TiVo build (I assume the late Oct/early Nov build) fixed it. Said my issue was definitely not that. He scheduled another TWC truck roll. TWC supervisor called me back this morning and said he would send the tech to adjust the signal levels, but that he guaranteed it was not the issue because "they are within spec".

No one knows what the problem is; but everyone is positive it's someone else's fault.

TiVo did offer to exchange my box with a new one.


----------



## BladeZ

atmuscarella said:


> Are your Cable and Internet both FIOS? Can you actually have the Internet go down but your cable stays up?


Yes, TV stays up, as this only affects the XL4, internet can go down without affecting TV service.


----------



## TiVoSupport_Kaitlyn

TiVo Support is aware that some users are having an issue where channels appear to stop tuning properly at random and where video is restored via a reboot or reseating of the CableCARD. This issue has a severe impact, but appears to impact a select few customers (we only have 2 customers that are actively working with us) and we are unable to reproduce the issue in house. TiVo would like to resolve this issue for our customers and, if you are experiencing this problem, we could use your help. 

If you are experiencing issues related to tuning on your Premiere 4 or XL4 that is temporarily resolved after a reboot, we would like your help in capturing some information and diagnostic logs from your DVR.

Please PRIVATE-MESSAGE one of the following TiVo Support Employees.

 tivosupport_jessica
 tivosupport_kaitlyn
Please let them know your

 TSN or TiVo Serial Number
 How often the issue occurs
 Which channels drop
 CableCARD Manufacturer, Hardware Version, Firmware Version
 Any other details you wish to share

Please do not publicly post your account information. We would like to protect the privacy of your account. 

Thank you.


----------



## DaveDFW

Thank you for the acknowledgment that Tivo is aware of the issue and is investigating the solution.

PM sent.


----------



## jhjones75

I have sent this info to tivo support several times over the last year with no response. I will send it yet again.


----------



## CoxInPHX

tivosupport_kaitlyn said:


> If you are experiencing issues related to tuning on your Premiere 4 or XL4 that is temporarily resolved after a reboot, we would like your help in capturing some information and diagnostic logs from your DVR.


It actually happens more on my 2 Tuner Premiere than on my Elite/XL4.

However my Elite does have a lot of noise related tuning issues where there is a brief moment of some macroblocking, where my 2 Tuner does not display the same issues, and did not when it was in the same location as the Elite.


----------



## shamilian

tivosupport_kaitlyn said:


> TiVo Support is aware that some users are having an issue where channels appear to stop tuning properly at random and where video is restored via a reboot or reseating of the CableCARD. This issue has a severe impact, but appears to impact a select few customers (we only have 2 customers that are actively working with us) and we are unable to reproduce the issue in house. TiVo would like to resolve this issue for our customers and, if you are experiencing this problem, we could use your help.
> 
> If you are experiencing issues related to tuning on your Premiere 4 or XL4 that is temporarily resolved after a reboot, we would like your help in capturing some information and diagnostic logs from your DVR.
> 
> Please PRIVATE-MESSAGE one of the following TiVo Support Employees.
> 
>  tivosupport_jessica
>  tivosupport_kaitlyn
> Please let them know your
> 
>  TSN or TiVo Serial Number
>  How often the issue occurs
>  Which channels drop
>  CableCARD Manufacturer, Hardware Version, Firmware Version
>  Any other details you wish to share
> 
> Please do not publicly post your account information. We would like to protect the privacy of your account.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by shamilian
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by tivosupport_taylor
> Have you tried replacing the cableCARD at all? It sounds like the issue is resolved if you pull the cableCARD and reinsert it, correct? Another customer mentioned that transitioning from the Netflix application to Live TV causes this behavior. Have you noticed that this issue correlates with switching between the Netflix application and live TV? I saw that you were well aware of RS errors in a post you made to another customer -- do all of your signal "health" values look decent on all your channels? Do you mind giving me a brief run down of the SNR, strength, and RS errors from DVR diagnostics? Additionally do you notice this occurring on some channels more than others?
> I have not returned the cablecard to FIOS for another one... It has worked for years this behavior has been intermittent for the past 6 months ( since Tivo OS ver 20.0 ).
> 
> It seems to have nothing to do with Netflix
> 
> The DVR diag screen shows SNR of 35db and signal level 75% - 90% for all channels. RS corrected/uncorrected = 0.
> 
> When it occurs it occurs on all channels.
> 
> When the problem starts it looks like extreme Macro-blocking ( like someone is playing Tetris on the screen )
> It then goes to all black and may report no signal on the live TV screen.
> The DVR diag screen thinks everything is fine.
> 
> removing and reinserting cablecard or rebooting fixes the problem.
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/
> How about the RS corrected and uncorrected errors? I understand you do not believe it is the CableCARD, but CableCARDs go bad frequently and it is worth replacing to troubeshoot the root cause of this issue.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Taylor


I have reported this problem since last September on 2 premieres (2 tuner). I assumed after multiple PMs that Tivo would be following up on the problem since it was never resolved.

I have since upgraded and added 3 premiere 4s, It occurs on All of my premieres 2 or 4 tuners. The problem never occurs on TivoHDs. 
(that means it occurs on 5 different Tivos OS20 about once a month and has never occurred on 4 different Tivos OS11, 3 of which have the same cablecards)

This seems a software issue.

I am on FIOS with Motorola Cablecards and no tuning adapter.


----------



## sldavis1952

I sent a pm of the requested information. Btw I had sent a pm of the same information to tivosupport on 10-25-2012, but didn't get a response. Make sure you get a response, otherwise tivosupport just keeps the status of the issue as waiting on response from customer.


----------



## sldavis1952

Lost all channels at 12:05 PM CST. Followed following procedure at 12:06 PM
(a) 7-7-7-CLEAR to mark the logs
(b) Remove the CableCARD
(c) 7-7-7-CLEAR to mark the logs
(d) Reinsert the CableCARD
(e) 7-7-7-CLEAR to mark the logs
(f) Send the date/time info to TiVo

After reseating the cablecard the following happened a few minutes later. Channels started 
pixelating real bad and audio cutting in and out on all channels at 12:16 PM.
Restarted Tivo. Waiting for the restart now.


----------



## Distortedloop

Came home yesterday an hour after the SuperBowl started expecting to find a game that was being recorded by my Premiere XL, instead found nothing but black screens on all tuners and recording of nothing.

Not the first time I've come home or awoken to dead channels, but it's been a while. Very frustrating.

Thanks TiVo. 

Premiere XL on Verizon FIOS, no recent channel lineup changes that I'm aware of or were reported in the settings/messages menu.


----------



## DaveDFW

I now preemptively check my four-tuner Tivo every morning. What a wonderful surprise--all four tuners on my XL4 were black today. My two-tuner premier was still happily chugging along with no issues.

My separate Tivo support ticket asked for the signal levels from each tuner, so I'm also adding them here just for documentation purposes.

Modulation: qam256
Signal Strength: 91
SNR: 36
RS Corrected: 0
RS Uncorrected: 0

Modulation: -
Signal Strength: -
SNR: -
RS Corrected: -
RS Uncorrected: -

Modulation: -
Signal Strength: -
SNR: -
RS Corrected: -
RS Uncorrected: -

Modulation: qam256
Signal Strength: 88
SNR: 35
RS Corrected: 0
RS Uncorrected: 0

The first time I checked diagnostics, all four tuners showed signal and SNR, the second time I checked two had turned blank. Could it be that all tuners were still receiving a signal, but something else was wrong, like the mpeg decoder subsystem had crashed?

The only problem with this hypothesis is that I could still watch recorded programming. If the mpeg decoder had failed, surely I would be unable to view anything.


----------



## shamilian

DaveDFW said:


> I now preemptively check my four-tuner Tivo every morning. What a wonderful surprise--all four tuners on my XL4 were black today. My two-tuner premier was still happily chugging along with no issues.
> 
> The first time I checked diagnostics, all four tuners showed signal and SNR, the second time I checked two had turned blank. Could it be that all tuners were still receiving a signal, but something else was wrong, like the mpeg decoder subsystem had crashed?
> 
> The only problem with this hypothesis is that I could still watch recorded programming. If the mpeg decoder had failed, surely I would be unable to view anything.


I have had multiple occurrences of of this symptom.

Two of the times it occurred I could not play recorded videos and the SD menu backgrounds were also black. Indicating to me that this time the mpeg decoder or disk playback system had crashed.

Another time I noticed that the cablecard no longer had a channel map.

Another time I noticed that the cablecard no longer had an OOB signal lock.

The other 10-12 times there was nothing out of normal with any of the numbers.

The signal was always strong and the RS numbers were always 0.

This never occurred to a TivoHD and only occurred in later versions of the Tivo OS on both 2 tuner and 4 tuner premieres, but only at random not to multiple Tivos at once.


----------



## sldavis1952

After restarting everything was okay with the Premiere. I haven't got a response from Tivo support that they got the information I sent. I asked them to send a response this morning.


sldavis1952 said:


> Lost all channels at 12:05 PM CST. Followed following procedure at 12:06 PM
> (a) 7-7-7-CLEAR to mark the logs
> (b) Remove the CableCARD
> (c) 7-7-7-CLEAR to mark the logs
> (d) Reinsert the CableCARD
> (e) 7-7-7-CLEAR to mark the logs
> (f) Send the date/time info to TiVo
> 
> After reseating the cablecard the following happened a few minutes later. Channels started
> pixelating real bad and audio cutting in and out on all channels at 12:16 PM.
> Restarted Tivo. Waiting for the restart now.


----------



## DaveDFW

Okay, Tivo support is officially useless. They just told me via support.tivo.com to replace my cablecard. First of all, that is an enormous hassle for me. Second, it is not the problem.

I'm also told that if the cablecard replacement doesn't cure the tuner malfunctions, we can discuss Tivo exchange procedures. So they're willing to exchange my XL4 for another with the same endemic problem? No thanks.

What idiotic suggestions. This is obviously not solely a cablecard issue, unless every person who owns a four-tuner Tivo and is experiencing tuner failure has a faulty cablecard. It is also not a problem specific to my particular XL4--it is affecting great numbers of XL4s.


----------



## MeInDallas

I keep waiting for someone to come in and post:

"Well I took the cable off the side of the house like they told me, fished it thru the open window, connected it directly to the back of the Tivo just like they said, and still nothing. I'm still losing all my channels."

I remember when I was asked to do that.


----------



## shamilian

DaveDFW said:


> Okay, Tivo support is officially useless. They just told me via support.tivo.com to replace my cablecard. First of all, that is an enormous hassle for me. Second, it is not the problem.


And for me the cablecards worked perfectly for years in a TivoHD and as soon as they went into an premiere then I guess they developed the problem of causing the tuners to fail randomly.


----------



## Teeps

MeInDallas said:


> I keep waiting for someone to come in and post:
> 
> "Well I took the cable off the side of the house like they told me, fished it thru the open window, connected it directly to the back of the Tivo just like they said, and still nothing. I'm still losing all my channels."
> 
> I remember when I was asked to do that.


What about the cable drop from the utility pole or vault?
That's where they found the problem with my service.


----------



## MeInDallas

Teeps said:


> What about the cable drop from the utility pole or vault?
> That's where they found the problem with my service.


The cable company has been out numerous times. I have new cables from the pole to my house, all new wires inside the house, a new splitter, new jacks on the walls, the whole 9 yards. I've been thru 4 cable cards, 4 tuning adapters. The last time they were out I got charged for the call because they cant find anything wrong with the cable. Their DVR's work fine, as well as the Ceton card in the HTPC I have. So I guess that leaves the issue with the Tivo's. They are the only things that wont work right.


----------



## DaveDFW

This is another long-standing issue. Below is one user's experience with total tuner failure beginning in January 2012.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=481894

Is Tivo truly working on this issue? I am concerned it appears that one year of research hasn't been sufficient to identify a solution.


----------



## shamilian

DaveDFW said:


> This is another long-standing issue. Below is one user's experience with total tuner failure beginning in January 2012.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=481894
> 
> Is Tivo truly working on this issue? I am concerned it appears that one year of research hasn't been sufficient to identify a solution.


Here is one from Dec 2011 version 14.9.2.2

14.9.2.2 Software - Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again

It turns out that I posted to this thread too.

And this one a month later... with version 20 software

Black Screen in Recordings and Live TV

that is how long I have been having this issue....
since we don't know what causes the problem and it seems to be random I doubt Tivo is doing anything but blaming the cable provider or the cablecards. But since the same provider and the same cablecards work fine on my TivoHDs, it is a Tivo Premiere OS problem.


----------



## mrizzo80

TWC Tech #5 re-ran the outlet line from the basement to the TiVo and replaced the tuning adapter (again). Signal levels were tweaked as well to rule that out as a potential cause.

Tuning issues are back ~48 hours later. Black screen on random channels. No error messages.

Reboots generally don't fix things. Calls to the TWC CableCard hotline to have them send hits to the card always seem to fix things instantly.

Maybe I'll redo Guided Setup.


----------



## DaveDFW

It sounds like your issue of black screens on random channels which isn't corrected by a reboot is a different issue. Guided setup shouldn't make a difference either--its only purpose is to align your channel lineup with Tivo's guide.

The issue discussed in this thread concerns all tuners failing and subsequent attempts to tune any any other channel also resulting in failure until either a reboot or cablecard reinsertion. These two actions will reliably (but temporarily) correct this particular tuning failure issue.


----------



## MeInDallas

DaveDFW said:


> This is another long-standing issue. Below is one user's experience with total tuner failure beginning in January 2012.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=481894
> 
> Is Tivo truly working on this issue? I am concerned it appears that one year of research hasn't been sufficient to identify a solution.


I posted a lot in that thread as well. My problems go back to January 2012 when I got my first Elite.


----------



## junkm

You can add a new user to the problem with a new XL 4 delivered in Jan. A tuner seems to loose contact with the cable card and goes blank "the channel is experiencing network difficulties" and that tuner post no signal level or snr. Every tuner channel change after that gets a blank screen so as channels are changed the other tuners go blank. Replug CC or soft or hard Tivo reboot and alll is well for a while. Tivo says change the cable card. I spent 35 years with IBM and do not understand why a software reboot of the TIVO without any change to the cable card or cable card programming causes the defective cable card to suddenly start working for a while. IMO it has to be programming on the TIVO side. I have a Charter Cable DVR sitting next to the TIVO that always bring in the channels. Have not used netflicks or other online stuff yet. When posting my signal is 82-90 and snr is 33-36. Right now one of my tuners has gone blank but three have live tv but on the cable card menu under paring it says "in order to start cable service for this device, please contact your cable provider" so the next tuner that changes channels will not get authorized -- It is much easier to reboot but it is a short time fix. This seems to be getting more frequent lately maybe as I have more season passes set up over time...


----------



## moyekj

It's ridiculous that TiVo even suggests the problem is cablecard related for these issues. If the problem was the cablecard then why does a reboot of the TiVo fix the problem for a while? Not to mention if you use the same cablecard in a series 3 unit there are no such issues. I think tuning problems with Premieres in general, but particularly 4 tuner units are widespread enough there should be support contacts available beyond the usual front line CSRs.

I occasionally get "V301" errors trying to start Netflix now and guess what, the only fix once that happens is to reboot the Premiere.

So it's like the old Windows 95 days where only reliable way to deal with these issues is to put the TiVo on a power timer to have it reboot automatically on a regular basis (like once a day) assuming you don't have USB-attached devices which may screw up the reboot from power down.


----------



## tomhorsley

Perhaps the best solution is to put the TiVo and tuning adapter (if you have one) on one of those automatic electric timers (if you can find one that can be programmed to turn off for just 5 minutes every day at 3AM).

I'm pretty sure my issues are due to the cable company screwing around with the channel lineups and the frequencies they map different channels to. The lost channel problems come in waves then stop when the cable company if finished fooling around with channels for a while.


----------



## DaveDFW

tomhorsley said:


> Perhaps the best solution is to...


This suggestion is neither a solution nor even a workaround.

Power-cycling the tuning adapter has no effect on this tuning failure issue--reseating the cablecard or power-cycling the Tivo are only the recovery solutions.

And pre-emptively power-cycling the Tivo with a timer in an effort to prevent future tuning failures does not guarantee tuner reliability--on more than one occasion, I've experienced tuning failure within 24 hours of a Tivo reboot.


----------



## L David Matheny

tomhorsley said:


> Perhaps the best solution is to put the TiVo and tuning adapter (if you have one) on one of those automatic electric timers (if you can find one that can be programmed to turn off for just 5 minutes every day at 3AM).
> 
> I'm pretty sure my issues are due to the cable company screwing around with the channel lineups and the frequencies they map different channels to. The lost channel problems come in waves then stop when the cable company if finished fooling around with channels for a while.


There have been reports that putting the tuning adapter on a timer can help, but surely putting the TiVo on a timer would be an act of desperation. Hard drives last longer when not powered up and down frequently, and that's a nasty thing to do to a TiVo. OTOH, as I write this I'm remembering that I power down my computer most nights.


----------



## DaveDFW

L David Matheny said:


> There have been reports that putting the tuning adapter on a timer can help...


Putting a tuning adapter on a timer is a workaround for two ongoing Tivo issues:

1. Tivo's failure to populate the suggestions list, which eventually leads to no suggestions being recorded, and
2. Tivo's failure to timely complete garbage collection processes on the S3/HD platforms, which eventually leads to no guide data.

However, power-cycling the tuning adapter does not address Tivo's complete failure of tuners, which is the subject of this thread.


----------



## Teeps

DaveDFW said:


> Putting a tuning adapter on a timer is a workaround for two ongoing Tivo issues:
> 
> 1. Tivo's failure to populate the suggestions list, which eventually leads to no suggestions being recorded, and
> 2. Tivo's failure to timely complete garbage collection processes on the S3/HD platforms, which eventually leads to no guide data.
> 
> However, power-cycling the tuning adapter does not address Tivo's complete failure of tuners, which is the subject of this thread.


Agree.
I have a TCD648250B with the garbage collection issue; the timer (on the tuning adapter) does fix this problem, for my S3.

My XL4 has experienced this problem also coincidental to a channel lineup change. 
However, there have been several lineup changes in the last few weeks that did not cause this problem.


----------



## BladeZ

Happened tonight, but for the first time ever, it recovered. First time i've seen it do that. It recovered while I was emailing Kaitlyn the info as per her earlier post. Hopefully this will help resolve it. At least I didn't have to reboot tonight.


----------



## BladeZ

BladeZ said:


> Happened tonight, but for the first time ever, it recovered. First time i've seen it do that. It recovered while I was emailing Kaitlyn the info as per her earlier post. Hopefully this will help resolve it. At least I didn't have to reboot tonight.


No less than 30 seconds after putting this post up, it froze again. Thinking it had to do with the menu operations I performed I went back into cablecard status only now it shows "Failed to load 'CableCARD///ps/ps'"
I don't recall anyone else seeing this, but perhaps it will help Tivo in resolving the issue. I'll PM kaitlyn as well...


----------



## MeInDallas

BladeZ said:


> No less than 30 seconds after putting this post up, it froze again. Thinking it had to do with the menu operations I performed I went back into cablecard status only now it shows "Failed to load 'CableCARD///ps/ps'"
> I don't recall anyone else seeing this, but perhaps it will help Tivo in resolving the issue. I'll PM kaitlyn as well...


Raises hand! Yep seen it many times.


----------



## dkraft

Comcast cable, XL4. Yesterday I lost channels, had to reboot twice before I could get my channels back. Today I lost channels. I have rebooted multiple times with no luck. Power cycled once, took the cable card out and put in back in, still missing channels. 

This could be related to a cable company change conflicting with TiVo. This morning when I lost some channels I took an inventory of the missing channels. When I tuned to HBO, there was a test pattern. HBO did come back after one of the restarts. The channels missing today seem different than yesterday's.


----------



## BladeZ

Based on my experience last night, I think this has to do with loss of access to the cablecard, perhaps related to a surge or something. And the more I read this thread, it's possible we're mixing two similar issues. Next time this happens, everyone should go to cablecard status and see if it's showing the error I listed above. This was the first time I resolved it without rebooting as I just reinserted the cable card. Saved some time, but I wouldn't want to do this regularly, the slot is pretty tight.


----------



## MeInDallas

You should read thru this thread, in case you havent had the pleasure yet:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=481894

We are talking about the same problem. Its either fixed by a reboot, or "reseating" the cable card, which means we pull it out and push it back in again. A lot of times you can pull it out, and then when the Tivo says its been pulled out, then you just push it back in and the Tivo will see it, and sometimes that will fix the issue. If that doesnt work then if you reboot it should fix it.

Someone started talking about the suggestions issue and putting the tuning adapter on a timer, now that is something different than the lost channels issue.


----------



## dkraft

My TiVo is on a battery backup.



BladeZ said:


> Based on my experience last night, I think this has to do with loss of access to the cablecard, perhaps related to a surge or something. And the more I read this thread, it's possible we're mixing two similar issues. Next time this happens, everyone should go to cablecard status and see if it's showing the error I listed above. This was the first time I resolved it without rebooting as I just reinserted the cable card. Saved some time, but I wouldn't want to do this regularly, the slot is pretty tight.


----------



## mrsean

This just happened to my TP4 for the first time. I previously had the same thing happen to my regular Premiere four months ago. I emailed TiVo support asking them to give us some indication that they are working to resolve this problem and when we might see that resolution.


----------



## jhjones75

Still haven't heard back from Tivo on mine.


----------



## colin1497

OK, I just bought an XL4 and have now had this happen 3-4 times in 2 weeks. Last night it happened in the middle of a basketball game that I was time shifting. Luckily I caught it when I turned on to watch the game and only missed a few minutes at the end of the first half, but it's now caused me to miss an entire night of television shows that we normally watch and almost caused me to miss a basketball game. I might have to return it and go back to my S3.


----------



## zerophin

This is also happening to me ... will reply via PM.


----------



## jeffm1911

Yet another XL4 with this issue. I have Time Warner Cable with a Cisco TA with a CableCard. Recordings with no content/black screen and random black screens when attempting to tune a channel. 

I just checked and found yet another bad recording with no content and a black screen. Every other channel just doesn't tune.

Hopefully this can be resolved before my 30 day window is over and the XL4 has to go back.


----------



## DaveDFW

jeffm1911 said:


> Hopefully this can be resolved before my 30 day window is over and the XL4 has to go back.


I don't want to sound unnecessarily pessimistic, but we've known about this issue for well over one year with no solution in sight. I wouldn't bet on a solution within 30 days.


----------



## jeffm1911

Like I said in my previous post, I have an XL4 with this same issue. I forgot to mention I called Tivo support and was told it is the TA. In DVR Diagnostics I noticed it said "not tuned wrong ta state", so I can see why they said that. 

I also just found a few missed recordings in History that was missed due to "No Signal". It was a show my wife watches every day, so not good!  Thankfully my DirecTV reciever is still up and running and not disconnected yet...


----------



## jeffm1911

DaveDFW said:


> I don't want to sound unnecessarily pessimistic, but we've known about this issue for well over one year with no solution in sight. I wouldn't bet on a solution within 30 days.


After reading the threads on this issue that go back months I agree...


----------



## jeffm1911

I just noticed that one of my missed recordings from today was because it was "Not Authorized"... It was H2, which I get and have had no problems with before and was able to tune into, so it should have worked. 

Anyone with this issue ever notice missed recordings with a reason of "Not Authorized"?


----------



## zerophin

DaveDFW said:


> I don't want to sound unnecessarily pessimistic, but we've known about this issue for well over one year with no solution in sight. I wouldn't bet on a solution within 30 days.


It feels though like something else may have broken since January because my Elite did not have this issue from May thorough December (albeit there were other tuning adapter related problems that would crop up, but not this "black screen of death.")

I had Time Warner send a "manager" to my house for 8 hours this week trying multiple tuning adapters and at least a half dozen cable cards to try to fix it. I'm usually the first to bash TWC but they genuinely tried everything on their end to correct the problem. At least one random tuner would constantly fail to tune (black screen) until you toggled the channel a few times. We've had to subscribe to (gasp) Hulu just to catch shows we've missed that do not re-air. That's obviously not the long term solution I'm hoping for 

It's incredibly frustrating that the only alternative at this point is to go satellite to get a functional DVR with more than two tuners. It's staggering how terrible the options in 2013 for someone who just wants a quality TV service with DVR technology that isn't the 10 year old junk that the cable companies provide.


----------



## sldavis1952

Yes. I get that on channels that are scrambled when I lose the channels.


jeffm1911 said:


> I just noticed that one of my missed recordings from today was because it was "Not Authorized"... It was H2, which I get and have had no problems with before and was able to tune into, so it should have worked.
> 
> Anyone with this issue ever notice missed recordings with a reason of "Not Authorized"?


----------



## sldavis1952

The Premiere had a different situation this morning. It was between 5:50 and 6:00 AM CST
when I turned the TV on. SD channels, 2-90 were coming in okay. HD channels, 235-349 were
either black or black with blocky pixelation. The music channels > 900, the audio was cutting
in and out. I didn't have time to do the 7-7-7-CLEAR. So I restarted the Tivo. All channels
came back okay. Don't know if this issue is weather related. We had rain and lightning early
this morning.


----------



## DaveDFW

sldavis1952 said:


> ...HD channels, 235-349 were
> either black or black with blocky pixelation...


I have seen this behavior on my XL4 previously, and it was a sign that a complete tuner failure was imminent. Had you given it a few more minutes, you'd be greeted with nothing but blank tuners. Rebooting was probably your only solution.

I have not experienced a tuner failure since 2/4 so I haven't been able to perform the log-collection procedure that Tivo requested. I hope others have been able to report their failures so Tivo has some data to work with.


----------



## sldavis1952

Got the 20.2.2.1 update. Has the helped with the issue of losing all the channels? 

I saw someone describe the problem as black screen of death, bsod. Maybe this is a better description than losing all channels.


----------



## moyekj

sldavis1952 said:


> Got the 20.2.2.1 update. Has the helped with the issue of losing all the channels?


 For me it seemed to make it worse on my Elite. Still have not had the issue with my 2 tuner Premiere.


----------



## DaveDFW

sldavis1952 said:


> Got the 20.2.2.1 update. Has the helped with the issue of losing all the channels?


Becase my XL4 updated on inital setup, it has never operated without 20.2.2.1 and is still affected by this problem.

In other words, 20.2.2.1 does nothing to address the failure-of-all-tuners issue.


----------



## smc03

Ive been having this same issue on my XL4, yet my Premier 4 and Premier never have this issue. Seems to me it has to be something specific to this Tivo - if it was a signal issue coming into my home, issue wouldnt the other two boxes lose the signal as well?


----------



## DaveDFW

smc03 said:


> Ive been having this same issue on my XL4, yet my Premier 4 and Premier never have this issue. Seems to me it has to be something specific to this Tivo - if it was a signal issue coming into my home, issue wouldnt the other two boxes lose the signal as well?


Both of your four-tuner Tivos should be susceptible to this issue. Aren't the XL4 and the Premiere 4 really the same device, differing only in hard drive capacity? I am skeptical that simply adding a large hard drive would lead to tuner failure.

The two-tuner Premieres have sufficiently different hardware that it is believable that they behave differently. I have never experienced a total tuner failure on my two-tuner Premiere.


----------



## MeInDallas

I think the only difference with the XL4 and the Premiere 4 is the hard drive and the XL4 has that THX thing on it. I've always wondered is the THX certification is what's causing the whole problem. If there is some diffence in the software on that model that has THX on it that is causing the issue.


----------



## rgjutro

I'm happy yet sad to see this link. I was going crazy trying to fix this issue, so I was thrilled to see a nice long post talking about it. I'm sad to see that it's such a longstanding issue, that doesn't seem to have any end in sight. What was odd was I didn't have any of these issues on my XL4 for the first few months after I bought it, and than over night all of these issues sprang up.

TWC
Cisco TA and Cablecard


----------



## MeInDallas

Well read this one too: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=481894&highlight=tivo+elite+user+log

Thats where it all began for me.


----------



## rgjutro

That's insane. You've been dealing with this for over a year, and they're still not any closer to resolving this.


----------



## sldavis1952

I added the following to my Tivo support ticket.
All the channels went out again on 2/17/2013.
The encrypted HD channels were displaying Channel not authorized with a black display and no audio. Other channels were pixelating very badly and audio cutting in and 

out. These channels finally only showed a black display.

I did the following at:
(a) 7-7-7-CLEAR to mark the logs at 2:57 PM CST
(b) Remove the CableCARD
(c) 7-7-7-CLEAR to mark the logs at 2:58 PM CST
(d) Reinsert the CableCARD
(e) 7-7-7-CLEAR to mark the logs at 2:59 PM CST
(f) Send the date/time info to TiVo

After putting the cablecard back in all the channels could be tuned.


----------



## sldavis1952

I haven't heard from Tivo support on the prior incident on 2/17/2013.
I added the following to my Tivo support ticket on 2/20/2013.
All channels were lost again. Black background on all channels. Tivo
either displayed Problem with the signal... or Channel not authorized.

I did the following at:
(a) 7-7-7-CLEAR to mark the logs at 7:23 AM CST
(b) Remove the CableCARD
(c) 7-7-7-CLEAR to mark the logs at 7:23 AM CST
(d) Reinsert the CableCARD
(e) 7-7-7-CLEAR to mark the logs at 7:24 AM CST
(f) Send the date/time info to TiVo on my support ticket.

After putting the cablecard back in all the channels could be tuned.


----------



## rogmatic

After months of frustration, I had twc come out and they removed some splitters in the walls and since then I have not lost signal. Actually starting to gain confidence that it could be fixed.


----------



## colin1497

DaveDFW said:


> Just another data point. When all four tuners are black, I cannot even tune the channels I know are clear QAM, the locals.
> 
> These channels do not depend on the cablecard for decryption, but instead depend on the tuning adapter merely to have the channel map, right? But reseating the cablecard nearly always restores tuner functionality.
> 
> So is the problem a combination of cablecard and tuning adapter? This is a question to be answered by the developers.
> 
> To the end consumer, it doesn't really matter--the problem we see is that the Premiere line has some fatal defect with its tuners and doesn't reliably operate in a cablecard/tuning adapter environment.
> 
> I see no evidence that Tivo as a company is even concerned.


Dave:

Where are you in Dallas? Lake Highlands here. Lost all 4 tuners on Friday 2/22. Curious if you also lost yours...


----------



## DaveDFW

colin1497 said:


> Where are you in Dallas? Lake Highlands here. Lost all 4 tuners on Friday 2/22. Curious if you also lost yours...


I'm in Richardson, 75082. My XL4 hasn't experienced a total tuner loss since 2/4. I'm definitely operating on borrowed time--I'm due for a failure!


----------



## colin1497

DaveDFW said:


> I'm in Richardson, 75082. My XL4 hasn't experienced a total tuner loss since 2/4. I'm definitely operating on borrowed time--I'm due for a failure!


Interesting. Well, we have basically the same service, and any lineup changes, etc. that others have referenced would be common...

Edit: and yes, I see Richardson in your profile. I guess I should read.


----------



## rogmatic

FYI, I am in Lakewood in Dallas. Have had constant issues until recently.


----------



## DaveDFW

Is it possible Tivo rolled out a quiet fix for this? I've been enjoying an unusually long period with no failures.

Or is it just that my cable provider has failed to send the magic signal that Tivo can't handle?


----------



## mrsean

DaveDFW said:


> Is it possible Tivo rolled out a quiet fix for this? I've been enjoying an unusually long period with no failures.
> 
> Or is it just that my cable provider has failed to send the magic signal that Tivo can't handle?


There's no fix yet. I just experienced this Sunday night. I had to re-record The Walking Dead and torrent The Amazing Race. I have emailed Tivo support twice already. They want me to contact them when the problem occurs but all my shows are scheduled to record after 8pm EST and I usually don't start watch until after 10.


----------



## ghostrider45

My XL4 lost all channels and failed to record last night. It's been months since the last occurrence. 

This is getting old. Tivo should pay for the Series 3 that I have to keep on line as a shadow for important recordings and can't decommission.


----------



## sldavis1952

Lost all channels last night again about 9 PM CST. We were watching a recorded
show and it started showing some blocky pixelation. Not bad, but enough to be
annoying. The Premiere was recording a suggestion at the time. I went to live
TV, stopped the recording, pulled the cablecard, put it back in and the channels
started tuning again. Went back to the recorded show and no pixelation.
Didn't do the timestamp stuff.


----------



## m_jonis

jeffm1911 said:


> Like I said in my previous post, I have an XL4 with this same issue. I forgot to mention I called Tivo support and was told it is the TA. In DVR Diagnostics I noticed it said "not tuned wrong ta state", so I can see why they said that.
> 
> I also just found a few missed recordings in History that was missed due to "No Signal". It was a show my wife watches every day, so not good!  Thankfully my DirecTV reciever is still up and running and not disconnected yet...


Question:

If it was the tuning adapter, then:

a) Shouldn't non-SDV channels be fine? (since they don't require a TA in the first place)?
and/or
b) splitting the cable so that the cable line goes directly to the Tivo and one goes to the TA (granted that would only resolve non-SDV channels) also provide similar benefits?

vs:

ALL channels (including non-SDV, "clear-QAM") being affected?


----------



## moyekj

m_jonis said:


> Question:
> 
> If it was the tuning adapter, then:
> 
> a) Shouldn't non-SDV channels be fine? (since they don't require a TA in the first place)?
> and/or
> b) splitting the cable so that the cable line goes directly to the Tivo and one goes to the TA (granted that would only resolve non-SDV channels) also provide similar benefits?
> 
> vs:
> 
> ALL channels (including non-SDV, "clear-QAM") being affected?


Conceivably they could blame the TA as culprit for all channels not tuning. Because with TA installed the frequency to channel mappings come from the TA rather than the cablecard, so technically if TA gets the wrong mappings then it can screw up every channel, including non-SDV channels and even unencrypted channels (like the main network channels). However as has been mentioned many times, there are plenty of people with this problem without TAs, so while there's a chance TAs may be the cause of some people's problems, it's not a catch all response.


----------



## MeInDallas

When I was going thru this with my Elites/XL4's I set up mine without the tuning adapter, and went in and unchecked all the channels that were on SDV and used only the cable card to get the local non-SDV channels to see if the culprit was the tuning adapter. Alas the problem continued onward, so that blew that theory out of the water.


----------



## DaveDFW

Doesn't the "Failed to load 'CableCARD///ps/ps'" message always occur during episodes of tuning failure? The next time someone has the failure, can you check the cablecard troubleshooting menus and see if the above message is displayed?

I'm fairly certain that the tuning adapter is not the culprit for this particular failure. The recovery mode for the tuning failure is always either reseating the cablecard or rebooting the Tivo. It is never necessary to reboot the tuning adapter.


----------



## MeInDallas

I used to see that message also, everytime. Tivo would say that Time Warner needed to update the firmware for the cable card, then I found out we were using the latest firmware on them already. Usually TWC is good about updating the firmware as needed. I know Ceton had asked them to upgrade the tuning adapters firmware so that 6 channels could be tuned in anticipation of their 6 tuner card being released, and sure enough the end of last year we got the firmware upgrade here in Dallas on the tuning adapters.


----------



## jbiggs19

Has anyone had problems with losing ABC? Not getting "signal lost" on that channel but an authorization error. Very strange and happened to other Tivo users I know. Same exact channel and error message, totally unrelated account wise etc.


----------



## SteveD

Another data point: 

Lost all channels this morning on my 2-tuner Premiere. I was not able to play back any recorded shows, nor watch live TV. Only a reboot brought everything back to normal. 

This is the fourth time this has happened in the past 8 months. I've sent PM's each time, but haven't heard anything back from Tivo. 

I'm on Verizon FiOS, no tuning adapter, and no channel updates. 

At least I was home this time so as not to miss any recordings.


----------



## chrispitude

jbiggs19 said:


> Has anyone had problems with losing ABC? Not getting "signal lost" on that channel but an authorization error. Very strange and happened to other Tivo users I know. Same exact channel and error message, totally unrelated account wise etc.


I've had random "You are not authorized..." messages from time to time. I'm using a 2-tuner Premiere with RCN (no TA).


----------



## sldavis1952

Not with ABC. I usually get it with CNBC and MSNBC early in the morning a couple of times a week. Also when I lose all channels I get the message with the HD Channels.


jbiggs19 said:


> Has anyone had problems with losing ABC? Not getting "signal lost" on that channel but an authorization error. Very strange and happened to other Tivo users I know. Same exact channel and error message, totally unrelated account wise etc.


----------



## jmbach

moyekj said:


> Conceivably they could blame the TA as culprit for all channels not tuning. Because with TA installed the frequency to channel mappings come from the TA rather than the cablecard, so technically if TA gets the wrong mappings then it can screw up every channel, including non-SDV channels and even unencrypted channels (like the main network channels). However as has been mentioned many times, there are plenty of people with this problem without TAs, so while there's a chance TAs may be the cause of some people's problems, it's not a catch all response.


I do not have these issues yet but I have a thought. While this issue is happening (for those that it happens while watching live) call the cable tech support and ask them to send a "hit" to the CableCARD and see if the issue resolves.


----------



## rogmatic

I think the tuners are just ultra, ultra sensitive; you have to have an extremely pure signal for the series 4 to work.


----------



## BladeZ

It's happening over and over for me tonight, cablecard reset and tivo reboot not helping. I found out that my wife was streaming a show to another premier but we do that so often i'm not sure it's the cause.


----------



## shamilian

BladeZ said:


> It's happening over and over for me tonight, cablecard reset and tivo reboot not helping. I found out that my wife was streaming a show to another premier but we do that so often i'm not sure it's the cause.


Did you try to reboot by pulling the power?
My last failure did not work with card reseat, or soft reboot, 
but needed to pull the power from the wall to get the unit to 
function properly.


----------



## Teeps

My XL4 had the tuning problem and micro blocking last week. Shortly after moving it to a permanent location.
Tuning problem affected channels in the upper 400 range of Time Warner in Torrance,CA; micro blocking affected network channels in lower 400 range. 
(noticed ch strength on blocking channels was below 75, good channels were above 80, non tuning ch zero; go figure)
Replacing the RG6 cable that feeds the XL4 has fixed the problem. 
Now all channels report above 80 on the TiVo ch strength meter.
Note: the cable, I replaced, was indoors and both ends were terminated by a Time Warner installer, on site, about 12 years ago.

Never assume the cabling or connections are good without substituting a known good cable.


----------



## XIBM

DaveDFW said:


> Doesn't the "Failed to load 'CableCARD///ps/ps'" message always occur during episodes of tuning failure? The next time someone has the failure, can you check the cablecard troubleshooting menus and see if the above message is displayed?
> 
> .


I get a failure like you describe for all cable card menu screens. I am in Gainesville GA on Charter Cable with Motorola TA and CC. My XL4 that I received in 1/5/2013 looses contact with the cable card about once a week. I often play a music channel for several hours and it just quits and all tuners are black or not authorized usually on different channels and recordings in progress are partical. My signal typically is 85-92 with snr 34-36. The CC has a snr of more 38-40. CC firmware 613. Software reset usually brings everythin back. I have unplugged CC to fix a few times but read it was not good so now only do software reset.


----------



## Bierboy

rogmatic said:


> I think the tuners are just ultra, ultra sensitive; you have to have an extremely pure signal for the series 4 to work.


I agree with this. I've had random "signal lost..." messages from time to time since I got my XL4 in December. But the channel returns usually pretty quickly...


----------



## shamilian

I have multiple Pr and Pr4 Tivos. 
In the past few days they have all been hit with the Signal Lost bug on all channels.

I can restore service by restarting the Tivo.

I know that FIOS is redoing their channel lineup / frequency map so this leads me to believe that the bug is related to the Pr and Pr4 not handling the change properly. My TivoHD has no problems with these changes.


----------



## tomhorsley

shamilian said:


> I know that FIOS is redoing their channel lineup / frequency map so this leads me to believe that the bug is related to the Pr and Pr4 not handling the change properly. My TivoHD has no problems with these changes.


Either that, or the cable company needs to tell their boxes different stuff than they tell the TiVo, but they never bother to tell the TiVo anything... (I too see this when comcast fools around with their channel lineups).


----------



## mrsean

Guess what, guys... It happened again tonight. This is the third time I can say the pixelation that leads to blank recordings happens to my Tivo on Sundays before 8pm. This also happen to be the night were I have the most shows set to record. 

This time decided to check the Tivo at 7:55 pm to make sure there would be no issue with my recordings starting at 8pm. Sure enough the was screen was all blocky. I then pulled the cablecard and then the screen immediately cleared up. Next, I put the cc back in and about a minute later in the cablecard screen popped up asking me to insert it even though it was currently snug in the slot. So I reseat it and then normal TV came back. I though thing were fine and my 8pm shows were starting to record so I took my attention away from the Tivo a bit to maker dinner.

About 20 mins. later I started up The Amazing Race from My Shows. Everything was good for the first half hour, but afterwards the pixelation returned on the recording. I immediately regretted not doing a proper restart of Tivo when I first noticed the problem. So I did a formal restart and now everything seems fine again.

From what I can tell, this is a software issue. Why is it that my Tivo gets scared every other Sunday when it knows that it has to record 3-4 shows within a 3 hour period and starts pixelating? I record shows 6 days a week so why is only Sunday evening so threatening?

I'm really getting tried of Tivo ignoring this problem. I am going to call Tivo support tomorrow since I did not call tonight. Does anyone know if Tivo support is around at 8pm EST on Sundays?


----------



## MeInDallas

I wonder how long it will be before someone posts here about there being a fix for this. People will start talking about a spring update soon. I'd love to dust off my Tivo's and put them to good use again.


----------



## XIBM

It is a shame that we can not count on the latest Tivo XL4 to record and play TV shows.


----------



## rogmatic

Not claiming a fix, but I have fixed my own situation by having the cable guys come out and remove splitters through the house. I also removed the signal amp (have tried that many times with attenuators to no avail). And I have had a rock solid signal for several months now. I never went more than a week before.


----------



## XIBM

rogmatic said:


> Not claiming a fix, but I have fixed my own situation by having the cable guys come out and remove splitters through the house. I also removed the signal amp (have tried that many times with attenuators to no avail). And I have had a rock solid signal for several months now. I never went more than a week before.


What was your signal level and SNR before and after?


----------



## mrsean

If I can successfully predict when this problem is going to occur within a 14 day period, then this cannot be a signal, cable or hardware issue IMO. I'm curious. Did everyone who experienced this problem have more than 2 shows scheduled to record in a single night? I record 3-5 shows on Sunday nights and I am getting the pixelation and blank recordings every other Sunday.

Tivo says that this issue is affecting a small amount of owners. I'm going to see if I can set up a poll to see how many people here have seen this problem.


----------



## sldavis1952

Updated my Tivo problem ticket with the following:
Lost signal to all channels again. I was watching the NCAA tournament games, switching between 3 games that were airing. The Tivo was recording a suggestion on espn2. I had just switched channels and the picture froze. I tried other channels and there was just a black background with no picture and not authorized being displayed. I did 7-7-7 clear and pulled the cable card. I did 7-7-7 clear and inserted the cable card. After the tuner signals came back I did 7-7-7 clear again. This all happened about 2:26 PM CDT.


----------



## mrsean

sldavis1952, you seem to have encountered the same scenerio as I. Large I/O operations such as 3-4 recordings and/or buffering at the same time is overwhelming the tuners or the connection to them. In my case, it happened before the scheduled shows even started. If it's like this then it should be easily reproducible, but then this thoery does not explain how the regular Premiere has also been affected.

I'm starting to wonder if upgrading the hard drive to a 2gb WD drive might be a factor. I noticed a good number of folks that are expriencing this issue have done so like I did.


----------



## Teeps

mrsean said:


> I'm starting to wonder if upgrading the hard drive to a 2gb WD drive might be a factor. I noticed a good number of folks that are expriencing this issue have done so like I did.


TiVo will say that for sure.
Thing to do now is put the stock drive back in and verify the problem is fixed or not.


----------



## MeInDallas

I dont think it has anything to do with an upgrade. I have several 320GB models and one of the new Premiere 4's that has the 500GB drive in it, plus I went thru 4 of the Elite/XL4 models. My guess has always been its some sort of conflict with the Tivo software and the tuning adapter. If I pull out the USB for the tuning adapter and go in and uncheck all channels that are on SDV, this problem never happens and will run forever without it occurring. Plug it back in and poof it returns. The problem is that 95% of what I watch is on SDV


----------



## sldavis1952

I don't have a tuning adapter. So something else is causing the problem for me. 


MeInDallas said:


> I dont think it has anything to do with an upgrade. I have several 320GB models and one of the new Premiere 4's that has the 500GB drive in it, plus I went thru 4 of the Elite/XL4 models. My guess has always been its some sort of conflict with the Tivo software and the tuning adapter. If I pull out the USB for the tuning adapter and go in and uncheck all channels that are on SDV, this problem never happens and will run forever without it occurring. Plug it back in and poof it returns. The problem is that 95% of what I watch is on SDV


----------



## MeInDallas

Yea I heard it happens for people that dont have them. I just find it weird that I can unplug mine and the problem goes away. This is the strangest problem I have ever seen with Tivo.


----------



## moyekj

MeInDallas said:


> Yea I heard it happens for people that dont have them. I just find it weird that I can unplug mine and the problem goes away. This is the strangest problem I have ever seen with Tivo.


 Unplugging the TA resets the tuners & back end communication so almost akin to a reboot. You would probably find pulling out the cable card and then putting it back in would have a similar effect.


----------



## MeInDallas

moyekj said:


> Unplugging the TA resets the tuners & back end communication so almost akin to a reboot. You would probably find pulling out the cable card and then putting it back in would have a similar effect.


Been there, done that, tried all the tricks


----------



## XIBM

mrsean said:


> I'm starting to wonder if upgrading the hard drive to a 2gb WD drive might be a factor. I noticed a good number of folks that are expriencing this issue have done so like I did.


Why does my new 1/1/2013 virgin XL4 do it every week or so?


----------



## MeInDallas

moyekj said:


> Unplugging the TA resets the tuners & back end communication so almost akin to a reboot. You would probably find pulling out the cable card and then putting it back in would have a similar effect.


Well let me go back and be more specific. When the tuning adapter is plugged in, the "lost channel syndrome" happens as often as every 5 to 15 minutes or maybe every few hours. When I just leave the tuning adapter unplugged for like a week, the "lost channel syndrome" never happens. Smooth sailing as long as I can do without the SDV channels. Its not that I unplug it and then immediately plug it back in, I just leave it unplugged for as long as a week or more. Thats why I say it must have something to do with the tuning adapter on my end at least. And let me add, I've been thru a ton of tuning adapters and cable cards, so I know TWC is sick of giving me new ones.


----------



## fahtas

I have a new premiere 4 in south jersey with fios. No tuning adapter. TiVo froze during walking dead last week. Reset it with power plug pull. My sister in north jersey with fios had her premier 4 freeze during walking dead too. TiVo blamed cable cards so I switched the cable card in my perfectly functioning tivo hd. If it happens again....it has to be tivo.


----------



## jmbach

MeInDallas said:


> Well let me go back and be more specific. When the tuning adapter is plugged in, the "lost channel syndrome" happens as often as every 5 to 15 minutes or maybe every few hours. When I just leave the tuning adapter unplugged for like a week, the "lost channel syndrome" never happens. Smooth sailing as long as I can do without the SDV channels. Its not that I unplug it and then immediately plug it back in, I just leave it unplugged for as long as a week or more. Thats why I say it must have something to do with the tuning adapter on my end at least. And let me add, I've been thru a ton of tuning adapters and cable cards, so I know TWC is sick of giving me new ones.


You may have tried this but apparently the TA likes to have a good signal. My charter tech insisted that the cable from the wall go into the TA first and then to the Tivo. That seem to work okay but I did not like that the TA had a 7db loss of signal. My original setup was a splitter that went to the Tivo and the TA. Each only had a 3.5db loss. It seem to work okay that way for me as well. Might try the different setups and see if one or the other improves the situation. And if you use a splitter make sure the signal loss is at a minimum. Worth a shot I guess.


----------



## MeInDallas

jmbach said:


> You may have tried this but apparently the TA likes to have a good signal. My charter tech insisted that the cable from the wall go into the TA first and then to the Tivo. That seem to work okay but I did not like that the TA had a 7db loss of signal. My original setup was a splitter that went to the Tivo and the TA. Each only had a 3.5db loss. It seem to work okay that way for me as well. Might try the different setups and see if one or the other improves the situation. And if you use a splitter make sure the signal loss is at a minimum. Worth a shot I guess.


Yea I tried that in Jan 2012. I've tried everything you can think of, but thank you for the suggestion


----------



## jmbach

MeInDallas said:


> Yea I tried that in Jan 2012. I've tried everything you can think of, but thank you for the suggestion


What brand tuning adapter do you have? Here is a few other thoughts that I have went through with charter. I would imagine that TWC has linked the TA to your CableCARD and both are registered on their end to your account so that the TA gives the correct information for the SDV channels in your area. Also the signal going to the TA and Tivo are optimal and not just good. The only other thing that could cause problems is if someone between you and the central office has tapped into the cable system introducing some noise in the system. That one took charter and I 18 months to figure out and a bazillion calls to charter during that time. With that I had some Internet and tv problems.


----------



## MeInDallas

We use the Motorola brand cable cards and tuning adapters here. I've been thru many many many of them. Time Warner has been out several times also. They replaced all the lines to my house, outside of my house, and the lines inside the walls. Got new wall jacks too. Everything else runs fine, cable co DVR's, HTPC with Ceton card, its just the Tivo's that wont work correctly. Tivo has admitted that theres an issue, theres just no fix for it yet. Someone in another thread said they got a software update and then disappeared, so I called Tivo about it and they are supposed to contact me back. We will see what happens there, but I dont expect much. This has been going on way too long.


----------



## gteague

@meindallas knows my saga as well and that i have had practically no recurrences of the problem for more than a year now for some unexplained reason. but the last 3 months has revealed a new trick--when some recordings start they can't find the channel. if you catch it in the first few minutes you can manually stop the recording, change the channel and when the new channel displays, change back to the original channel and start the recording again. this is most likely to occur if 3 or 4 recordings are all starting at once between 2000-2400.

but i've been having problems with my wd ext hd which i purchased from newegg refurbished. it's run for nearly 2 years ok, but i do have problems with it on restarts. and starting 3-4 recordings at once could show up flaws in the drive and not be related to the tivo or the network at all.

other than those glitches, i've only had to manually reset my tuning adaptor about 3-4 times over the last year and have only had to pull and reseat a cable card once and had to reboot only once or twice. a far cry from when i first started this thread and was pulling my hair out. @meindallas is one of the few i know that has had as-much-or-more done to try to fix the problem than i have.

as far as i'm concerned, the day can't come too soon when we're able to get all programming over broadband internet, but given how intransigent all these content providers are, who knows when, if ever, that will happen.

which reminds me, i watched a movie last week (on cable, natch) called 'vamps'. alicia silverstone & krysten ritter. it was universally panned at imdb (4.8) and no one had a kind word for it, but i laughed all the way through it. at several points they specifically compared time-warner (by name) to blood sucking vampires!

/guy


----------



## Teeps

gteague said:


> as far as i'm concerned, the day can't come too soon when we're able to get all programming over broadband internet, but given how intransigent all these content providers are, who knows when, if ever, that will happen.


That will not be the panacea everyone thinks. Unless the internet provider is not in the cable tv business too, and has unlimited data transfer.
Time Warner and other cable co's will just start charging by the data used, just like they do with smart phones.



gteague said:


> which reminds me, i watched a movie last week (on cable, natch) called 'vamps'. alicia silverstone & krysten ritter. it was universally panned at imdb (4.8) and no one had a kind word for it, but i laughed all the way through it. at several points they specifically compared time-warner (by name) to blood sucking vampires!
> /guy


Too funny, I knew you were going somewhere with this paragraph.


----------



## 483

Have had a Premier 4 for about six months. Never saw the lost channel problem.

The other day decided to add a mini to the mix. Shared out a tuner from the 4 and attempted to hook the mini up. It was DOA. 

Since screwing with my config I can't watch more than 20 minutes of TV without it going black. I have since reclaimed the tuner and tried to put everything back the way it was to no avail. 

Having to watch NCAA tourney online. Crazy how crippling this bug is.


----------



## bobdole888

I don't know if the issue I had is what others have suffered when 'all channels' are lost.

First off, I only subscribe to basic cable form Comcast so I don't get that many channels to start with. When I had the problem last week, channels 2 to 33 were all gone, except for ch 16 was still there. I still had some of the HD versions of the basic channels in the 700's range, but even there I lost NBC and WB.

I suspect the problem was due to channel mapping being wrong. The channel number are not lock to certain frequency anymore. Channel maps is used by tivo to look up what frequecy to go to when you pick a specific channel. When the mapping is wrong, your tivo would go to the wrong frequency and the content won't be there so you get a black screen.

When I had the problem I didn't know what was wrong, I call comcast and they said they would send a signal to the cable card in the tivo to see if it would fix the problem. It didn't fix it.
A day later, I thought the problem might be channel mapping, so I called Comcast again and told them that I thought the problem might be channel mapping info. Comcast sent the channel mapping info to my cable card and within 10 minutes, all of my channel came back. In addition, I got 2 extra channels from them that I don't subscribe. That was the added bonus.

I'm wondering if people who are having issues with losing all channels are due to channel mapping info getting corrupted.
It's possible that if the cable line is too noisy or signal is too weak, then you get errors in the channel mapping info to cause all channel to be lost.
In the Tivo cable card section, there is a DVR diagnostic tool. One can go there and see if there are correctable and uncorrectable error being received by tivo. If there is many correctable errors, then it's a indication that there is too much noise in your cable line or signal is too weak and you're on the verge of failing. If there are many uncorrectable errors, then definately you have problems with your cable line.
If that's the case you'll want to see about trying to have your tivo get better connection to the cable line and minimizing use of splitters.


----------



## mrsean

According to the poll results, this problem is only affecting a very small amount of owners. That's probably why we don't see Tivo actively addressing it. 

Anyhow, I took your advice bobdole888. I tuned my P4 to the four channels it normally records on Sunday nights and then went into the DVR Diagnostics menu. This is what I see:

SNR RS Uncommited RS Committed
Tuner0: 37db 0 0
Tuner1: 36db 0 0
Tuner2: 37db 2361 205
Tuner3: 37db 350 10305

Unfortunately, I have no idea if this good or bad. Can somebody give me some advice?


----------



## MeInDallas

What is your signal strength on those channels?


----------



## mrsean

MeInDallas said:


> What is your signal strength on those channels?


Tuner 0: 92-94 CBS HD
Tuner 1: 89-92 AMC HD
Tuner 2: 92-94 ABC HD
Tuner 3: 92-94 CNN HD


----------



## Distortedloop

I haven't had the problem in a while, but it hit today.

Middle of the day, only one thing being recorded. I believe there was a channel line-up change from the messaging center. All channels went black on all tuners with a signal problem message. Reboot required.

Stock Premeire XL, no tuning adapter, FIOS for cable.


----------



## bobdole888

mrsean said:


> According to the poll results, this problem is only affecting a very small amount of owners. That's probably why we don't see Tivo actively addressing it.
> 
> Anyhow, I took your advice bobdole888. I tuned my P4 to the four channels it normally records on Sunday nights and then went into the DVR Diagnostics menu. This is what I see:
> 
> SNR RS Uncommited RS Committed
> Tuner0: 37db 0 0
> Tuner1: 36db 0 0
> Tuner2: 37db 2361 205
> Tuner3: 37db 350 10305
> 
> Unfortunately, I have no idea if this good or bad. Can somebody give me some advice?


I think you mean uncorrected and corrected right? 
I would say the 2361 uncorrected errors look rather unhealthy.

But to be fair, it depends on how long you had that tuner on that channel.
If you scroll down, it should tell you how long that tuner has been on that channel. Try forcing tivo to record 4 different channel then what it's on.
Wait an hour go back and check on the error count. If you have double digit error counts in just 1 hour, I think it's not healthy.

Is the tivo getting the cable connection through any splitters? How is the quality of the cable used to connect.

What signal strength is it reporting in the diagnostic screen?


----------



## XIBM

mrsean said:


> Anyhow, I took your advice bobdole888. I tuned my P4 to the four channels it normally records on Sunday nights and then went into the DVR Diagnostics menu. This is what I see:
> 
> SNR RS Uncommited RS Committed
> Tuner0: 37db 0 0
> Tuner1: 36db 0 0
> Tuner2: 37db 2361 205
> Tuner3: 37db 350 10305
> 
> Unfortunately, I have no idea if this good or bad. Can somebody give me some advice?


Watch the tuner 2 and 3 error counts for a few minutes. If you have uncorrected errors that are incrementing it indicates you have a current signal from that channel that Tivo is not able to process correctly. I would try a soft reboot(under help in hd menu) and look at the error count on those channels again. If the error counts are incrementing it is likely you have a weak/dirty signal. If the error count is not going up then Tivo is processing the signal OK which makes me think that it was Tivo as the reboot fixed it OR the signal got better during the time you rebooted which is quite possible if the channel is SDV as it may now be on a different frequency. Maybe if you can repeat this a few times you can determine what is going on especially if channels are not SDV. If you have other tv's tuned to the SDV channel(s) in question, Tivo should get the same channel on the same frequency after the reboot as that channel is locked to a frequency for the other tv...


----------



## sldavis1952

sldavis1952 said:


> Updated my Tivo problem ticket with the following:
> Lost signal to all channels again. I was watching the NCAA tournament games, switching between 3 games that were airing. The Tivo was recording a suggestion on espn2. I had just switched channels and the picture froze. I tried other channels and there was just a black background with no picture and not authorized being displayed. I did 7-7-7 clear and pulled the cable card. I did 7-7-7 clear and inserted the cable card. After the tuner signals came back I did 7-7-7 clear again. This all happened about 2:26 PM CDT.


Same story. Lost signal to all channels again today. I was watching the NCAA tournament games, switching between 3 games that were airing. The Premiere was recording on one tuner. It lost signal repeatedly. I did a soft restart 2 times and reseated the cable card 3 times. After I quit switching between games it settled down.


----------



## shamilian

Another of my units had the problem last night.
After a reboot the problem occurred again a few hours later.

I took pictures of the DVR Diag screens, and the /var/log/tverr.

The problems seem to happen at the same time as the "Time Since OOB Tune Start time".

So it seems something cause the OOB to reacquire an OOB lock and retune, which should be OK but the Tivo never recovered.

The Tivo also noticed the problems from the inputs in the log file, but no problems on the DVR diag ( RS numbers were 0 ).


----------



## MeInDallas

You guys should follow this thread as well:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=497690

There seems to be a fix for this. I just got it downloaded to my 4 tuner model and testing it out now. Stay tuned.


----------



## shamilian

MeInDallas said:


> You guys should follow this thread as well:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=497690
> 
> There seems to be a fix for this. I just got it downloaded to my 4 tuner model and testing it out now. Stay tuned.


Is the fix only for those with TA problems ?


----------



## MeInDallas

I actually dont think its about the tuning adapter, but its the tuners themselves. The 4 tuner model uses new tuners that werent used in the 2 tuner models. But thats just my opinion about it. I've tried to get Tivo to explain to me what this fix does, but the people in level one tech support said they dont have that information. When the "fix" was ready for me to download, I just got an email from someone at level 2 tech support telling me to download the fix and test it out for the next 48 hours and then report back. I've left a message to ask what the fix does, but no one has responded to me yet.

So far so good. I havent had a lost channel since I downloaded this, and it seems to be rock solid which is shocking to me after all I've been thru with the 4 tuner models. I've never been able to keep one of these Tivo's going without rebooting them every few hours. Around 9pm central time tonight 3/28 it will be 48 hours. So I'm shocked and a bit impressed


----------



## mrsean

bobdole888 said:


> I think you mean uncorrected and corrected right?


Yes. 


bobdole888 said:


> Try forcing tivo to record 4 different channel then what it's on. Wait an hour go back and check on the error count. If you have double digit error counts in just 1 hour, I think it's not healthy.


I did this and the only issues were tuner 0 (0/52) and tuner 2 (6865/1309).



bobdole888 said:


> Is the tivo getting the cable connection through any splitters? How is the quality of the cable used to connect.


Nope. The cabling looks fine to me but what do I know. I've had FIOS since 2008 along with first a Tivo HD, next a 2-tuner Premiere and finally the P4.



bobdole888 said:


> What signal strength is it reporting in the diagnostic screen?


Lowest is 92

Thanks for you help.


----------



## tlc

Grrrr. We have a 1 week old XL4 that has started doing this. All channels/tuners go grey. Only a reboot will fix it. We have a new 75hr Premiere as well and it is having no problems. Both are stock, FIOS, no TA. All the stats on "DVR Diagnostics" look reasonable, even while it's happening.

The first clue the first time, since we weren't watching live TV, was that a show streaming from the Premiere to the XL4 was pixelated. As we tested, we saw that live TV was grey on the XL4. After the XL4 rebooted, the show streamed fine.

We need a fix. We are not happy with our expensive new toy.


----------



## Dr_Diablo

had simular problem until the cable card was replaced then all channels were back


----------



## bobdole888

mrsean said:


> Yes.
> 
> I did this and the only issues were tuner 0 (0/52) and tuner 2 (6865/1309).
> 
> Nope. The cabling looks fine to me but what do I know. I've had FIOS since 2008 along with first a Tivo HD, next a 2-tuner Premiere and finally the P4.
> 
> Lowest is 92
> 
> Thanks for you help.


So it looks like tuner 2 has issues with uncorrectable errors, tuner 0 looks ok.
The next step that I suggest is to write down the channels that you were tuned to that gave you these results. Then you can swap the channels that are on tuner0 and tuner2. This way you can confirm that the problem is not with the particular channel having bad reception, but it's your tuner that's getting error. I suppose you could have a tuner that's more sensitive and can't receive signal properly unless it gets higher signal/noise ratio than normal.


----------



## tlc

Happened again last night. That's 3 times on a 10 day old XL4. 

3 tuners were grey. 1 had a few small mpeg blocks showing through black. I looked at 'DVR Diagnostics' and the stats for all 4 tuners (which were still recording), were roughly:

SS: 94
SL: Yes
PL: Yes
SC: Yes
SNR: 37dB
RS Uncorrected: 0
RS Corrected: 0 (1 for one tuner)


The CableCARD Status, Pairing and Conditional Access menus all said
"Failed to load CableCARD /cp/auth" or something similar.

I removed and reset the CableCARD and it started working. No reboot necessary.


----------



## mrsean

bobdole888 said:


> So it looks like tuner 2 has issues with uncorrectable errors, tuner 0 looks ok.
> The next step that I suggest is to write down the channels that you were tuned to that gave you these results. Then you can swap the channels that are on tuner0 and tuner2. This way you can confirm that the problem is not with the particular channel having bad reception, but it's your tuner that's getting error. I suppose you could have a tuner that's more sensitive and can't receive signal properly unless it gets higher signal/noise ratio than normal.


bobdole888, I did the swap and this time I got 0/0 for both tuners 0 and 2. I don't know what this means. I haven't experienced pixelation and blank channel the past two Sundays which is good. However, I did restart the Tivo that first Sunday prior to the time my recordings started. Someone previously suggested that this would prevent the issue from arising that evening and so far it seems that they are correct.

Anybody hear anything new about this so-called fix that Tivo is pushing to select folks? Is it only for people that have TAs/SDV or anyone whose getting blank channels?


----------



## tomhorsley

Another lineup change on comcast this weekend - another "this channel not authorized" on every channel. It may be time to resume work on the script I was writing to telnet into the tivo and reboot it so I can just make it reboot every day at 4 AM...


----------



## MeInDallas

mrsean said:


> Anybody hear anything new about this so-called fix that Tivo is pushing to select folks? Is it only for people that have TAs/SDV or anyone whose getting blank channels?


As far as I know, I dont think its only for people with tuning adapters. Engineering told me that its a bug in the software, and it will be included in the spring update, so everyone will get it.

Since I've gotten the script I have had no lost channels, which is really shocking because I've never been able to go for more than a few hours without the "lost channels bug" biting me.

Now I just wonder when the spring update will be out.


----------



## shamilian

MeInDallas said:


> As far as I know, I dont think its only for people with tuning adapters. Engineering told me that its a bug in the software, and it will be included in the spring update, so everyone will get it.
> 
> Since I've gotten the script I have had no lost channels, which is really shocking because I've never been able to go for more than a few hours without the "lost channels bug" biting me.
> 
> Now I just wonder when the spring update will be out.


How did you know that they updated your machine ?
(Is there any indication that you have this patch ?)

Did they push the patch during a standard call ?
Did you have to reboot your machine or did they reboot for you ?


----------



## MeInDallas

shamilian said:


> How did you know that they updated your machine ?
> (Is there any indication that you have this patch ?)
> 
> Did they push the patch during a standard call ?
> Did you have to reboot your machine or did they reboot for you ?


I was notified by engineering that the script was ready for me to download, and I was told to go to my Tivo and connect, and I could see something large downloading. It took about 10 minutes for the script to run after the download completed. There was a couple of suggestions that were recording at the time so a couple of the red lights were on the front. Once the script started running the tuners went "dead" and the lights went out. After it was done I unplugged everything and then plugged it all back in. Someone else that got the script before me told me to do it that way, engineering really didnt say much. I had written to them a couple of times back and forth because I wanted to know more, and they guy just told me not to change anything as far as switching the hard drive, or doing a clear and delete, or to rerun guided setup until the spring update came out, because it would be included in the new software.

As far as knowing I have this, all I can say is that I've never been able to use one of these 4 tuner models before, more than a few hours at the longest. I got this script on Tuesday 3/26/2013 at around 9pm central time. After getting this I havent had one failure. The Tivo has been up and running since that day and time, which is a miracle for me. And then I have the emails that were sent back and forth between me and engineering that say they were pushing it to my Tivo.


----------



## tlc

Happened to our new 2-tuner Premiere now, as well as the new XL4. This is so much fun.

We had HDs on these same cables with the same CableCARDs for years and never saw this. We only upgraded because FIOS is changing some channels to mpeg4.


----------



## rogmatic

Had a long streak end today and lost signal again. Although my 4 tuner is the only one that completely loses signal until a reboot my 2 tuner Premiere often struggles with signal issues. I have never had an issue with my HD, which is why my oldest DVR is on my primary use TV.


----------



## XIBM

My XL4 with TA on Charter stopped on 3/26 12:28 but did not recover fully with a soft reboot until I changed a few channels then it started working. On 3/29 it stopped and a soft reboot fixed it but tuners stayed on channels. Tonight 4/1 11:08 it stopped and soft reboot fixed it, all tuners came up on the channel that was recording. I guess I will try to get the fix when I can catch Tivo open...


----------



## Dr_Diablo

bout three weeks ago my Tivo stopped recording all Season Pass programing...
Once I noticed this I did a reboot an the problem reslovedd= itself for the time being.... Has done this on three separate periods then it didn't crop up again...
However I did call BH an had the cable card hit for a repair, only guess that helped... dunno


----------



## shamilian

Dr_Diablo said:


> bout three weeks ago my Tivo stopped recording all Season Pass programing...
> Once I noticed this I did a reboot an the problem reslovedd= itself for the time being.... Has done this on three separate periods then it didn't crop up again...
> However I did call BH an had the cable card hit for a repair, only guess that helped... dunno


I noticed one of mine had nothing in the to do list.
A reboot fixed it.
(This one does not have the losing all channels problem)


----------



## shamilian

Another Tivo all tuners error.
DVR diag thinks everything is fine, 
The error log knows there are errors on the input.

These errors on the input seem to correspond with the tuner failure.


----------



## sldavis1952

Lost all channels again. The Premiere was this way when I turned the TV on at
6:10 AM. Did a restart and all channels came back.


----------



## mrsean

shamilian said:


> Another Tivo all tuners error.
> DVR diag thinks everything is fine,
> The error log knows there are errors on the input.
> 
> These errors on the input seem to correspond with the tuner failure.


How does one get to the error log on a Tivo?


----------



## MeInDallas

Go into the System Information screen and enter "clear clear enter enter 0" and you will see it pop up.


----------



## moyekj

MeInDallas said:


> Go into the System Information screen and enter "clear clear enter enter 0" and you will see it pop up.


 But be warned if you use an alternate remote address (other than 0) it will reset it to 0.


----------



## mrsean

Ok. thanks, guys.


----------



## fahtas

It happened again this morning. I have fios, 4 tuner premiere. TiVo told me it was a cable card problem so I 2 weeks ago i put in my tivo hd cable card which has worked flawlessly for 2 years. Paired it up and seemed to be ok for 2 weeks until I was watching a recorded program which froze. i went to live tv and I suddenly i wasn't authorized. Pulling cable card didn't work...only pulling plug with reset brought back normal tivo function. Could this be caused by a corrupted recording? Nothing was being recorded when tivo stopped working. Until I reset tivo , I couldn't watch anything .....not even recordings.


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## shamilian

I think no play back symptom is a different bug, which I ran into again recently. I get no play back on previous recordings and even the background of the old menus is black. Only a reboot fixes this. Youtube also fails to display, this last time.


----------



## sldavis1952

Lost all channels again last night. We were watching 39 Steps which we had recorded. Did a restart and all channels came back.
Looked at the logs by doing a doing clear clear enter enter 0 from the System Information screen. During the time the Premiere was experiencing the problem there was page after page of log entries showing found 0 expecting 1, found 2 expecting 3, found 5 expecting 6. Sounds like a pointer in memory is positioned incorrectly.


----------



## Ziggy86

Tivo must know why this is happening, never happened on my S2


----------



## sldavis1952

I should have requested this long ago. After the Premiere lost all channels last night, I called Tivo billing and asked for free service until they get the problem fixed. I explained I had 1st reported the problem in Sept. 2011. Candace offered me 2 months credit. I asked to speak to a supervisor and was on hold for about 30 minutes. Candace came back and said they could offer 4 months credit. I said okay, if it wasn't fixed in 4 months I would call back and request credit again.


sldavis1952 said:


> Lost all channels again last night. We were watching 39 Steps which we had recorded. Did a restart and all channels came back.
> Looked at the logs by doing a doing clear clear enter enter 0 from the System Information screen. During the time the Premiere was experiencing the problem there was page after page of log entries showing found 0 expecting 1, found 2 expecting 3, found 5 expecting 6. Sounds like a pointer in memory is positioned incorrectly.


----------



## XIBM

My P4 XL on Charter with TA and CC quit again while I was out of town. I have started logging the outages which are all fixed with a soft reboot:
3/26 12:28 PM
3/29 
4/1 11:08 PM
4/10 4:14 PM
4/10 7:55 PM
4/19 8:31 PM recording stopped
My lowest signal level during my checks after reboot range from a low of 84 up to 93.
SNR range from a low of 33 to 37
Errors are low and not rising.
I don't think it is hardware as a soft reboot always fixes the problem which I don't believe it cycles the power to the hardware so the hardware should give the same error but it is always fixed after the soft reboot under help.

I am very disappointed that Tivo has not fixed this.


----------



## sldavis1952

Lost all channels while watching a recorded show, The Mentalist. This occurred about 8:30 PM CDT. One tuner was recording a suggestion. I noticed pixilation on the show playing back. I went to live TV and checked several channels. Most channels were black with a little pixilation showing, but not enough to make out a picture. I did the following:
a) 7-7-7-CLEAR to mark the logs about 8:31 PM CDT
b) Remove the CableCARD
c) 7-7-7-CLEAR to mark the logs about 8:32 PM CDT
d) Reinsert the CableCARD
e) 7-7-7-CLEAR to mark the logs about 8:32 PM CDT

Lost all channels again about 8:42 PM while watching a recorded show. Did a restart from the Tivo Help menu. Did a 7-7-7 Clear before I restarted at about 8:43 PM. Did another 7-7-7 clear at 8:48 when Tivo had finished restarting.


----------



## sldavis1952

This morning when I got up all channels were lost. It was about 6 AM. I did 7-7-7-CLEAR and restarted the Tivo.


----------



## rogmatic

Every single one of my tivos is now screwed up. Did the change the tuning adapter software or something?


----------



## moyekj

So this so-called TiVo script that was installed for several people posting in this thread is not the answer after all?


----------



## sldavis1952

Lost all channels again at about 6:45 PM CDT. I had looked at the wishlist and looked at the todo list. Live tv was on TNT and the picture froze in the small window. Suggestions was recording on the other tuner. I went to live tv and checked several channels. They were all black and displayed problem with signal... I did 7-7-7 clear at about 6:48 PM and restarted the TiVo. When it came back all channels were still lost and displayed problem with signal... I did 7-7-7 clear about 6:55 PM CDT. I reseated the cablecard. The channels came back. I did a 7-7-7 clear about 6:56 PM.


----------



## sldavis1952

Lost all channels again. Watched a recorded show and when I went to live tv all channels were gone. This was about 7:42 PM CDT. Restarted the Tivo.


----------



## sldavis1952

It was a different situation this morning. HD channels were lost, but the SD channels were coming in. The HD channels were displaying, Problem with signal... I did a 7-7-7 clear at 7:22 AM and did a Tivo restart. The HD channels came back. I did a 7-7-7 clear at 7:28 AM.


----------



## shamilian

sldavis1952 said:


> It was a different situation this morning. HD channels were lost, but the SD channels were coming in. The HD channels were displaying, Problem with signal... I did a 7-7-7 clear at 7:22 AM and did a Tivo restart. The HD channels came back. I did a 7-7-7 clear at 7:28 AM.


Is anyone really looking at these logs or is Tivo just giving you a button to push so you feel better?


----------



## colin1497

I was out of town for two weeks and my support ticket got closed out as "solved" even though my wife had it happen a couple of times while I was gone. I'm not terribly optimistic at this point that it's ever going to be solved.


----------



## MeInDallas

I had posted this in another thread but I guess the people in this thread didnt see it. Heres what I wrote:

"In my conversation with someone from Tivo engineering I had asked some questions, one regarding upgrading the hard drive after I had received the script, this was his answer:

"_The script is purely a quick operation that is run on the unit that temporarily resolves a *software bug* and as long as the box does not repeat guided setup or change to another provider the issue should not happen again. Even so the newest software update which should be out soon resolves this issue permanently so there should be no further problems._"

So as you can see, Tivo is aware of the software issue, and is working on it. I think any attempt to try and call your cable company is just a waste of time. Honestly I dont know why Tivo cant just come out and formally say that they know of the software problem and are working on it. This really has me puzzled in a lot of ways, but on the other side of the coin, after all I have been thru since January 2012 with this issue, and Tivo's insistance that it was not on their end, it doesnt surprise me at all. I just wish the spring update would come out soon so people can get the help they need, and stop having everyone jump thru hoops like a dog and pony show at the circus."

The fix is coming guys, just try to hold on for the spring update. I've been there and I know its difficult waiting for a fix, trust me I KNOW!


----------



## moyekj

Yes, but the problem is that apparently those have had "the script" applied have not unanimously had their issue resolved, so it doesn't look like TiVo has a resolution to the problem yet. I guess we can hope that "the script" is just a band aid that may help some and the real fix is coming in a software update, but I haven't seen any evidence of a concrete fix to the issue yet. If there is indeed a real software fix in the works then TiVo should be recruiting candidates affected by the issue for beta testing to ensure that is the case instead of applying "the script". That may indeed be the case already and we can't know about it since beta testers can't say they are beta testing, but call me a skeptic I guess.


----------



## MeInDallas

Well I just dont understand all this "cloak and dagger" stuff Tivo goes thru. I dont understand why they cant just come out and formally say there is a problem and we know about it, and we are trying to fix it. They have all these people jumping thru hoops, calling their cable companies and all that, and if engineering says "we know theres a bug, we are working on it" then doing anything else is a waste of time. I feel bad for people that are still going thru stuff I went thru over a year ago, buying attenuators, trying to get the cable company to fix the signal, when theres nothing wrong with the signal. Then in the end all that work produces nothing but the same thing you started out with. All this and trying to watch TV and relax at the same time. I understand and its sad.


----------



## sldavis1952

I asked Tivo support if my problem was the same as MeInDallas and gave them your ticket number 130325-010690. This was their response, "This is in regards to your issue with loss of video channels noted in reference number 130201-011673. We have discovered your issue is slightly different then others we have been tracking. We are still investigating your issue. We do not currently have a fix, but this is something we are diligently working to resolve. We appreciate your assistance as well as your patience while we work with you to resolve this issue."

I have been experiencing this issue since September 2011.



MeInDallas said:


> I had posted this in another thread but I guess the people in this thread didnt see it. Heres what I wrote:
> 
> "In my conversation with someone from Tivo engineering I had asked some questions, one regarding upgrading the hard drive after I had received the script, this was his answer:
> 
> "_The script is purely a quick operation that is run on the unit that temporarily resolves a *software bug* and as long as the box does not repeat guided setup or change to another provider the issue should not happen again. Even so the newest software update which should be out soon resolves this issue permanently so there should be no further problems._"
> 
> So as you can see, Tivo is aware of the software issue, and is working on it. I think any attempt to try and call your cable company is just a waste of time. Honestly I dont know why Tivo cant just come out and formally say that they know of the software problem and are working on it. This really has me puzzled in a lot of ways, but on the other side of the coin, after all I have been thru since January 2012 with this issue, and Tivo's insistance that it was not on their end, it doesnt surprise me at all. I just wish the spring update would come out soon so people can get the help they need, and stop having everyone jump thru hoops like a dog and pony show at the circus."
> 
> The fix is coming guys, just try to hold on for the spring update. I've been there and I know its difficult waiting for a fix, trust me I KNOW!


----------



## sldavis1952

I don't know if they are looking at the logs. I hope they are though.


shamilian said:


> Is anyone really looking at these logs or is Tivo just giving you a button to push so you feel better?


----------



## MeInDallas

sldavis1952 said:


> I asked Tivo support if my problem was the same as MeInDallas and gave them your ticket number 130325-010690. This was their response, "This is in regards to your issue with loss of video channels noted in reference number 130201-011673. We have discovered your issue is slightly different then others we have been tracking. We are still investigating your issue. We do not currently have a fix, but this is something we are diligently working to resolve. We appreciate your assistance as well as your patience while we work with you to resolve this issue."
> 
> I have been experiencing this issue since September 2011.


See thats whats so weird, what you are describing that is going on with yours, is exactly the same way I would describe what was going on with mine, EXACTLY word for word. When you come and post the issue you had at a certain time, it looks exactly like what I would post was going on with mine. I'm not there in your house so I cant be 100% certain, but it sounds to me like the exact same thing I had. And thats all I really know to say about it.


----------



## Sandman

Been following this thread since I got a new premier xl a month ago with intermittent loss of channels. Mine comes back though with channel change.


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## sldavis1952

Lost all channels again. Pulled cable card, reinserted card and worked for about 5 minutes. Then did a restart to the Tivo from the menu.


----------



## jwmccnn99

I've posted about this in other threads and have tried different methods to get it to stop, none have really worked for longer than a few days. I have found that changing the channel, and then back to the original channel, as long as the channel you change to isn't already tuned in on another tuner, seems to fix the issue.....for a short period of time. Recently, it seems that every time I checked to see if everything was on, something wasn't .... and I mean EVERY TIME! Could be 5 minutes after I fixed it or 5 hours, it didn't seem to matter, it just seemed like every time I checked, something wasn't tuned in correctly.

However, on Saturday, out of nowhere, I received a message on my Premiere XL-4 saying that I had received a new service update. It said that I had received the Fall 2012 update, but I know I received this update back when it first came out back in October/November??..... Anyway, since this odd update over 48 hours ago I have not had one instance of a lost channel. Perhaps this new "update" had an updated script or patch, whatever you want to call it, that has fixed the problem of the lost channels???? Did anyone else receive an update that they thought they already had recently?


----------



## fritolayguy

I had gone almost a month with only small issues (channel won't tune initially, but going back to it in the guide a few times resolves the issue), until Sunday of this week when basically none of the channels would tune in. I tried switching back and forth. restarting the unit (twice), and then finally I unplugged the TA with the TIVO running and left it unplugged for about 10 minutes, then plugged it back in. After the requisite blinking pattern on the TA stopped, I received the TIVO message on screen that a tuning adapter had been connected to my TIVO. 

Even after this message, still had some trouble for about 1/2 hour with some of the channels, since this happened on Sunday, no issues at all. The frustrating thing is that I don't know how to tell when it is a TIVO issue, as opposed to this one that seemed like a TA issue.

Has anyone else had this experience, and any thoughts on how to proceed? I am getting to the point where I am going to call Direct TV soon, as I am tired of wondering whether my recordings will work or not. I realize it's a pretty high class problem to have, but the unit is not performing as it was intended, and getting close to not being worth the hassle.


----------



## jwmccnn99

jwmccnn99 said:


> I've posted about this in other threads and have tried different methods to get it to stop, none have really worked for longer than a few days. I have found that changing the channel, and then back to the original channel, as long as the channel you change to isn't already tuned in on another tuner, seems to fix the issue.....for a short period of time. Recently, it seems that every time I checked to see if everything was on, something wasn't .... and I mean EVERY TIME! Could be 5 minutes after I fixed it or 5 hours, it didn't seem to matter, it just seemed like every time I checked, something wasn't tuned in correctly.
> 
> However, on Saturday, out of nowhere, I received a message on my Premiere XL-4 saying that I had received a new service update. It said that I had received the Fall 2012 update, but I know I received this update back when it first came out back in October/November??..... Anyway, since this odd update over 48 hours ago I have not had one instance of a lost channel. Perhaps this new "update" had an updated script or patch, whatever you want to call it, that has fixed the problem of the lost channels???? Did anyone else receive an update that they thought they already had recently?


Just to update this...... It has been almost 2 weeks since I received this "New Fall 2012 Update" and I have not had one issue with a tuner not tuning. Every time I have checked since I received the update, everything has been working properly.


----------



## dave13077

jwmccnn99 said:


> Just to update this...... It has been almost 2 weeks since I received this "New Fall 2012 Update" and I have not had one issue with a tuner not tuning. Every time I have checked since I received the update, everything has been working properly.


It was fixed for me as well but then the last couple of days it has started happening again. Not as often but it is still there.


----------



## sldavis1952

Lost HD channels only this morning. They were black with a few small blocky pixels showing and no audio. SD channels came in fine. I did a 7-7-7 clear at 6:46 AM CDT as Tivo support requested. I restarted the Tivo and took the dog out for a walk. Came back and all channels were okay. Did a 7-7-7 clear at 7:04 AM.


----------



## MeInDallas

Did you get the new software update yet? I'm curious if this will help you. I got it last night.


----------



## sldavis1952

What version do you have? I haven't gotten an update in awhile. I'm at version 20.2.2.1


MeInDallas said:


> Did you get the new software update yet? I'm curious if this will help you. I got it last night.


----------



## MeInDallas

sldavis1952 said:


> What version do you have? I haven't gotten an update in awhile. I'm at version 20.2.2.1


Yes a new one is out now version 20.3.1-01-2-7xx

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=504477


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## sldavis1952

Not all the channels were lost this morning. All the HD channels were lost and a few of the SD channels, but some of the SD channels would tune okay. I did a restart of the Premiere. All channels came back. I entered my TSN for the update. I haven't got it yet. Hopefully this will fix the issue.


----------



## tim316

i got the update this past weekend,and it did not help with the channel issue.the problem happened an hour after my update.


----------



## moyekj

I've given up hope this will ever be solved for my 4 tuner Elite (my 2 tuner Premiere never has this problem). Hopefully next generation hardware will have better/different tuners that don't suffer from this issue. I personally can't wait to get rid of my Elite because of this problem and the sluggishness of the HDUI.


----------



## MeInDallas

After you get the update, try rebooting your tuning adapter, or just leave it unplugged for about 5 minutes, then plug it back in and see if that helps.


----------



## gteague

i was just going to say that @meindallas has been reporting his xl seems to be working nearly flawlessly as far as channels go since he got this update. i haven't yet gotten it but my tivo has only had sporadic and random problems with (usually) single channels dropping out, nearly always around prime time from 1900-2300.

/guy


----------



## sldavis1952

Got the new version this afternoon. Hope this fixes the problem.


----------



## gteague

and right on queue, at just after 2000 i did a check to make sure things were getting recorded as unfortunately i've having to do when i'm home during prime time and sure enough, channel 762 scyfy (defiance) had gone missing. luckily, scyfy programs are some of the easiest to redo as they repeat them very often.

but that just gave me an idea for another prophylactic: perhaps i should run through every channel that is going to host a recording and make sure they are active before prime time starts. i know it sounds like a real pita, but i've suffered through much worse kludges and workarounds since i got the xl. for instance, i'm still doing my manual 5 minute recordings of 4 sd channels at 1600 every day which i started doing about 6 months ago when i suspected a hd cache type of problem was causing the lockups. rooster blood vudou, but problems with the xl have some of us reduced to magickal thinking. hopefully this update will improve matters.

/guy


----------



## tim316

MeInDallas said:


> After you get the update, try rebooting your tuning adapter, or just leave it unplugged for about 5 minutes, then plug it back in and see if that helps.


already done many resets since the weekend and still have channels not tuning.this was a big waste of money.4 tuners that intermittently cant tune correctly.


----------



## sldavis1952

cross posted this in the 20.3.1 thread.

Slightly different messages display now for tuning problems with version 20.3.1.
Now:
This channel is not authorized. Contact your cable provider for more information (V58).
Problem with the signal on this channel. Trying again. (V53)

Before:
This channel is not authorized. Contact your cable provider for more information.
Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again.


----------



## gteague

and right on queue again ...

... i received the update a couple of days ago and about the only positive thing i've noticed so far is that the channels do seem to change more quickly. but i still have very annoying audio dropouts when going out of the hd menus to live tv--sometimes for up to 60 seconds, for example--it's gotten worse with the update, not better.

anyway, despite the single channel dropout i posted about below and on the good review of @meindallas, i decided that now was the time to drop my voodoo-sacrifice-the-rooster_and_the_goat process of recording 4xsd shows every day at 1600. friday was the first day i tried this experiment of not doing the recordings and i had to work that evening. when i arrived home this (sat) morning my screen was frozen on live tv.

i remembered @meindallas advising to reboot the ta with a 5 minute wait and so i did that. ta came back online but no channels. and a new (to me--i thought i'd seen every error by now) 'v63' error with 'no signal detected' text.

now i pulled out my 2nd trick and re-seated my cable card. when the tivo recognized it live again there was still no change whatsoever--frozen with the v63 error.

finally i pulled out the last arrow in the quiver--i re-booted the tivo. the only positive thing about a re-boot since my external drive died is that it's about 33% faster. anyway, upon re-boot the channels all recovered.

needless to say, i've sharpened up my throat-slitting knives and the chickens and goats are looking nervous again--i've reset my manual recordings for 4 sd channels at 1600.

anyway, my opinion of this update so far is hardly positive.

[later note: reading the post above, it could have been v53 instead of v63. now i'm unsure. i just know i don't think i've seen that one before.]

/guy



gteague said:


> and right on queue, at just after 2000 i did a check to make sure things were getting recorded as unfortunately i've having to do when i'm home during prime time and sure enough, channel 762 scyfy (defiance) had gone missing. luckily, scyfy programs are some of the easiest to redo as they repeat them very often.
> 
> but that just gave me an idea for another prophylactic: perhaps i should run through every channel that is going to host a recording and make sure they are active before prime time starts. i know it sounds like a real pita, but i've suffered through much worse kludges and workarounds since i got the xl. for instance, i'm still doing my manual 5 minute recordings of 4 sd channels at 1600 every day which i started doing about 6 months ago when i suspected a hd cache type of problem was causing the lockups. rooster blood vudou, but problems with the xl have some of us reduced to magickal thinking. hopefully this update will improve matters.
> 
> /guy


----------



## CoxInPHX

Losing all Channels on my Elite, (Black-No Audio) has happened to me twice now since receiving the latest update, 20.3.1

EDIT: I also experience one other occurrence of a Frozen tuner that resulted in losing all channels after attempting to change channels.

All SD Menu screens also have a Black background

TiVo message is "Problem with the signal on this channel. Trying again. (V53).

I never had this issue before, or rarely ever noticed it.

I also have had a few spontaneous reboots, that I never used to experience.


----------



## MeInDallas

CoxInPHX said:


> Losing all Channels on my Elite, (Black-No Audio) has happened to me twice now since receiving the latest update, 20.3.1
> 
> *All SD Menu screens also have a Black background*
> 
> TiVo message is "Problem with the signal on this channel. Trying again. (V53).
> 
> I never had this issue before, or rarely ever noticed it.
> 
> I also have had a few spontaneous reboots, that I never used to experience.


I've got that black background thing too, but I didnt say anything because I thought I was the only one that used the SD menus. It really doesnt bug me though because I havent lost any channels and so far the Tivo has been up 24/7 with no issues, except still no suggestions without my intervention.


----------



## CoxInPHX

MeInDallas said:


> I've got that black background thing too, but I didnt say anything because I thought I was the only one that used the SD menus. It really doesnt bug me though because I havent lost any channels and so far the Tivo has been up 24/7 with no issues, except still no suggestions without my intervention.


I am NOT using the SDUI, however all the remaining SD menus used in the HDUI such as Settings and Parental Controls and System Info, had a Black background when I lost all channels on all tuners.

So far this has not happened on my 2 tuners, just the Elite/XL4


----------



## m_jonis

gteague said:


> and right on queue, at just after 2000 i did a check to make sure things were getting recorded as unfortunately i've having to do when i'm home during prime time and sure enough, channel 762 scyfy (defiance) had gone missing. luckily, scyfy programs are some of the easiest to redo as they repeat them very often.
> 
> but that just gave me an idea for another prophylactic: perhaps i should run through every channel that is going to host a recording and make sure they are active before prime time starts. i know it sounds like a real pita, but i've suffered through much worse kludges and workarounds since i got the xl. for instance, i'm still doing my manual 5 minute recordings of 4 sd channels at 1600 every day which i started doing about 6 months ago when i suspected a hd cache type of problem was causing the lockups. rooster blood vudou, but problems with the xl have some of us reduced to magickal thinking. hopefully this update will improve matters.
> 
> /guy


Your first idea won't work. I've had the issue where I was actively watching a channel, it WAS tuned, but the minute it went to re-tune to record the show, it went all black.

I'm going to keep calling Tivo and demand a credit until they get this fixed. Maybe I'll end up with free service for life.

Either that or dump Tivo and go for a Windows 7 MCE with the Ceton card and Echo.


----------



## UCLABB

CoxInPHX said:


> Losing all Channels on my Elite, (Black-No Audio) has happened to me twice now since receiving the latest update, 20.3.1
> 
> EDIT: I also experience one other occurrence of a Frozen tuner that resulted in losing all channels after attempting to change channels.
> 
> All SD Menu screens also have a Black background
> 
> TiVo message is "Problem with the signal on this channel. Trying again. (V53).
> 
> I never had this issue before, or rarely ever noticed it.
> 
> I also have had a few spontaneous reboots, that I never used to experience.


Lost all channels yesterday. I thought it was just me. This has never happened to me before. I have had the update for about two weeks. Restart restored order; I hope this does occur with any regularity.


----------



## sldavis1952

The new update didn't fix the problem of losing all channels. It happened again at about 7:50 PM CDT, Thursday 5/30/2013. I restarted the Tivo.


----------



## NorthAlabama

ok, this happened to me tonight, 20.3.1, only a few channels have error "Problem with the signal on this channel. Trying again. (V53)", most other channels are fine. i'm with comcast, no sdv or ta.

removed m-card, unplugged, booted w/o card, reinserted m-card, channels restored. this will get old quickly if it happens regularly.


----------



## TiVoSupport_Kaitlyn

Thank you to all of those who have been helping us investigate this odd and elusive issue. We are continuing to monitor this thread and collecting data from those of you who have reached out to us.

We realize how bad this experience can be and we want to do everything we can to help figure out what the problem is. If you believe you might be running into the issue described in this thread <refer to the description of the issue below> please reach out to us with a Private Message that contains your TSN and a description of your issue. We will get logging turned on and include it in our review process.

Currently, we've identified two separate potential issues reported on this thread and have begun investigating each issue individually. We are especially interested in hearing from the Time Warner customers in the Plano, TX area <zip code 75024>; as there seems to be a trend in this area and would like more data points to help with our investigation.

TiVo has been investigating the logs provided from those of you we've worked with and will be reaching out with some additional questions, suggestions and feedback.

Description of issue:
- Loss of signal to all or some channels
o Error: Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again. OR Channel not Authorized
- Resolved by rebooting or resetting your cablecard

Please let us know if you have further questions.

Thank you, 
Kaitlyn 
TiVo Customer Support


----------



## tlc

I experienced this on FIOS in NJ for a few weeks in March, unfortunately just after upgrading to Premiere boxes. (So I was *mad*.) A nearby friend on FIOS experienced it at the same time. After a few weeks it stopped for both of us.

This friend has had Premieres much longer and experiences this in clusters of a handful of times every few months. Also, he knows something about the CableCARD spec and has a theory. I'm not sure if it's been shared here.

CableCARDS in _one-way_ devices (like TiVos) cannot be queried by the provider, they can only be commanded. If a provider wanted to upgrade the firmware on the CableCARD, they might very well command it to do so a few times to try to ensure it gets done. And even if they don't have a firmware upgrade, they might do it every few months to get the CableCARDs that weren't in use during the last round. Perhaps the Premieres don't handle this well or some other infrequent provider maintenance command.


----------



## Teeps

tivosupport_kaitlyn said:


> Description of issue:
> - Loss of signal to all or some channels


 YES


tivosupport_kaitlyn said:


> o Error: Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again. OR Channel not Authorized


 YES


tivosupport_kaitlyn said:


> - Resolved by rebooting or resetting your cablecard
> 
> Thank you,
> Kaitlyn
> TiVo Customer Support


NOT EVERY TIME
If you would like to run logs on my TiVo XL4 I will send the TSN upon request from you Kaitlyn.


----------



## sldavis1952

I got this in response to my problem ticket on TiVo.com. Hopefully they are making some progress or at least working on the problem. This is from Kaitlyn, TiVo Advanced Escalation Specialist.
"This is in regards to your issue with loss of video channels noted in reference number 130201-011673. You've been incredibly helpful in assisting researching this issue and supplying us time stamps to continue our investigation. We currently suspect an issue with the analog signal, but are still continuing to investigate. If possible we would like you to try unchecking the analog channels that have a digital re-broadcast available and then see if the issue persists. You can do this in the channel list: Navigate to the Channel Settings screen by going to TiVo Central then Messages & Settings > Settings > Channels > Channel List"

This is my reply. 
"Hi Kaitlyn,
My cable company went through an all digital conversion recently. So I can't do what you are suggesting. Longview Cable TV sent out a letter and stated they completed the all digital conversion on May 1st, but I know it wasn't completed by then, because a cable tech came out later in May when I was having trouble with the channel map. I lost all channels again on May 23 after the digital conversion. I still get SD and HD channels, but per Longview Cable they are all in digital format now."


----------



## rogmatic

My Elite has been behaving pretty well lately. I moved it to a secondary location so I don't use it as much but it has been several months since I noticed any issues.


----------



## XIBM

This has started on the new version for my XL4 on Charter with a Motorola CC tonight. I PMed Kaitlyn with my error details:
date time tuner channel signal SNR uncorrected/error corrected/error
6/21/2013 10:43 PM 0 932 89 35 0 0 live tv stopped (V53) error
1 106 88 34 0 2 recording blank Not Authorized then (V53) 
2 722 87 35 0 0 recording blank (V53) error
3 708 80 32 0 1399 not incrementing (V58) not authorized 
None of the cable card menu item would populate
Soft reboot, all lost channels back, CC menus all populate signal levels similar to above...


----------



## tomhorsley

In some imaginary dream world, they roll out a beta 20.4 which was actually the exact same software as the release from before 20.3, then people could sign up for priority updates to get 20.4 in order to go back to the old release and verify that all the new problems go away.

Of course as long as I'm indulging in fantasy, I might as well imagine they actually fix the problems soon .


----------



## XIBM

6/22 was the worst day since I got my new XL4 in Jan. Mine lost all channels at 12:47 PM, 9:31 PM, 10:23 PM, 11:23 PM. Always temporarily fixed with a soft reboot. Sometimes the cable card menu is populated with data and sometimes the second item will not load, and once none of the cable card menu items would not load. At 9:31 PM, 45 minutes after reboot, three tuners were on the same 106 channel and for a while, tuner one was blank and quiet with an occasional pixel, tuner two was breaking up badly with broken sound, tuner three was almost good with an occasional breakup in sound and pixels. Tuner 0 was on channel 702 and issued (V53) error. Changing channels always got V53 errors.


----------



## Dan203

Just had this happen. Have never seen this before. My Elite would not tune any channels even though I have a 2 tuner Premiere connected to the same splitter and it tuned them all fine. Tried rebooting the TA but it didn't help. Rebooted the TiVo and now I can tune all channels again.


----------



## moyekj

Dan203 said:


> Just had this happen. Have never seen this before. My Elite would not tune any channels even though I have a 2 tuner Premiere connected to the same splitter and it tuned them all fine. Tried rebooting the TA but it didn't help. Rebooted the TiVo and now I can tune all channels again.


 Rather late to the party aren't you? I've had this issue on and off ever since I've had my 4 tuner Elite. It has NEVER affected my 2 tuner Premiere. Hoping next generation hardware coming out presumably in the fall uses different tuner hardware such that this problem is history.


----------



## Dan203

I did have an issue once where I missed an entire night of recordings which may have been related to this. But otherwise I've had very few issues with my Elite.


----------



## DaveDFW

I'm not happy that others are having this issue. But on the bright side, it increases our chances of having the problem corrected if sufficient numbers of people complain!


----------



## moyekj

DaveDFW said:


> I'm not happy that others are having this issue. But on the bright side, it increases our chances of having the problem corrected if sufficient numbers of people complain!


Your optimism is truly impressive. Personally I've thrown in the towel on this one hoping the next 4+ tuner TiVo hardware is the solution (realizing the irony in that thinking).


----------



## slowbiscuit

moyekj said:


> Rather late to the party aren't you? I've had this issue on and off ever since I've had my 4 tuner Elite. It has NEVER affected my 2 tuner Premiere. Hoping next generation hardware coming out presumably in the fall uses different tuner hardware such that this problem is history.


It's odd because it definitely doesn't affect all of the Elites - I only saw it once or twice last year but it's been very good at tuning ever since the fall update. But I'm on Comcast, no TAs.


----------



## tomhorsley

DaveDFW said:


> I'm not happy that others are having this issue. But on the bright side, it increases our chances of having the problem corrected if sufficient numbers of people complain!


The disease you are suffering from is Acute Malignant Optimism (first said by Archie Goodwin to Nero Wolfe, but just as applicable here .


----------



## DaveDFW

I don't believe I've ever been accused of being a Tivo optimist. And now twice in one thread!


----------



## XIBM

My XL4 on Charter near Gainesville GA stopped again after 36 good hours:
date time tuner channel signal SNR uncorrected/error corrected/error
6/24 1:04 PM 2 932 90 36 496, 291 Live tv stops and issues V53 error
3 765 88 35 0 10 Heavy pixeled no sound
0 708 80 32 463, 2243 V58 error
1 106 87 34 1447, 259 V58 error
all CC menu items fail to load. After soft reboot all channels work fine with similar signal levels with no errors. CC menu items all populated with what looks like good data.


----------



## Solitaire

I am also having the signal loss problems and channels not authorized as described in this thread. Started June 5th and still unresolved. I am in Sarasota, FL using Comcast. I have 2 Tivo Premieres. I have had one unit for a year and the problem just started. The other Tivo premiere is brand new and it has had this problem since it was installed in mid-June.


----------



## smhaus

I have had the problem for about a year, but it seems to be getting worse and more frequent.

I have two tivos, and it happens on both, but it happens more on the first one (two tuner tivo xl) than the second one (four tuner premier elite xl). I do have the most recent software update (20.3.1).

I frequently can not tune to some channels because I get not authorized or problem with channel signal. It happens to some channels, but others remain usable. There are some channels for which this seems to occur most often. Rebooting the machine&tuning adapter often brings back most channels, but sometimes that does not work, or it will bring back most channels with a few still unusable.

In addition to total channel loss, I also sometime get the problem with pixelation an no sound.

I am on cox digital cable - northern Virgina.

I saw a post (p15) from TiVo Support (tivosupport_kaitlyn) which asked that I send a private message - but I haven't yet posted to this site often enough to be allowed to send private messages.

I saw suggestions about checking EMMs, and mine is at 4, when the poster suggested it should be at 40+

There are many threads on this issue, so I posted this message one more than one:
/showthread.php?t=497690&page=6
/showthread.php?t=476691&page=16


----------



## XIBM

XIBM said:


> My XL4 on Charter near Gainesville GA stopped again after 36 good hours:
> date time tuner channel signal SNR uncorrected/error corrected/error
> 6/24 1:04 PM 2 932 90 36 496, 291 Live tv stops and issues V53 error
> 3 765 88 35 0 10 Heavy pixeled no sound
> 0 708 80 32 463, 2243 V58 error
> 1 106 87 34 1447, 259 V58 error
> all CC menu items fail to load. After soft reboot all channels work fine with similar signal levels with no errors. CC menu items all populated with what looks like good data.


Well, I made it 16 days without a failure but when I came home tonight all channels were blank including the two that were recording, the cc menus items would not load and soft reboot fixed everything...


----------



## Davisadm

NTP66 said:


> I'm having a similar issue to some here, where I continue to receive the following error message on a channel: "*Problem with the signal on this channel. Trying again. (V53)*". ...


No need to double post...


----------



## skaggs

I have been unable to tune multiple random channels for some time now. I live near Albany, NY in zip code 12303 and use Time Warner Cable with an M-card and tuning adapter. I have been a TiVo user for over 10 years, have 3 lifetime subscriptions, and have previously been a Beta-tester.

The issue only seems to happen on my 4tuner Elite, not the 2-tuner model.

Most of the time, we see a blank black screen when switching channels, although occasionally, we will receive the, "channel temporarily unavailable" message.

This unable to tune issue has frustrated my wife so much that she has convinced me to pay additional to rent a TWC supplied cable box so we can actually watch the channels we pay for. There are no issues tuning any channels with the TWC supplied box. We both prefer the TiVo, but when you repeatedly tune to channels and they do not appear, it is very frustrating.

I sent a private message to Kaitlyn from TiVo with my TSN.


----------



## slowbiscuit

That looks like a Cablecard headend mapping issue, not the 'Problem with signal' error that most have reported (and that I've seen on rare occasions). The problem here is getting someone with a sniff in your area to fix the mapping.


----------



## m_jonis

skaggs said:


> I have been unable to tune multiple random channels for some time now. I live near Albany, NY in zip code 12303 and use Time Warner Cable with an M-card and tuning adapter. I have been a TiVo user for over 10 years, have 3 lifetime subscriptions, and have previously been a Beta-tester.
> 
> The issue only seems to happen on my 4tuner Elite, not the 2-tuner model.
> 
> Most of the time, we see a blank black screen when switching channels, although occasionally, we will receive the, "channel temporarily unavailable" message.
> 
> This unable to tune issue has frustrated my wife so much that she has convinced me to pay additional to rent a TWC supplied cable box so we can actually watch the channels we pay for. There are no issues tuning any channels with the TWC supplied box. We both prefer the TiVo, but when you repeatedly tune to channels and they do not appear, it is very frustrating.
> 
> I sent a private message to Kaitlyn from TiVo with my TSN.


I had the same thing ONLY on my Premiere units, also with TW Albany. As soon as I switched to Verizon FIOS, the problem went away, but now I'm getting the "channel not authorized. V58" error. The only good thing is that with Verizon and that new error, it doesn't stop the tuning or the recording. I just lose about 20 seconds of the show(s) about 5x/day.

So given the above, I'm pretty sure it's not a head-end issue with TW (if it was, then ALL Tivo's would be affected, not ONLY my Premiere Tivo's. The TivoHD's are just fine, BTW).

Skaggs and I live in the same "general" area, so I feel the pain.

Skaggs--you can call Tivo and request a credit (I've been doing so) until they get the problem fixed. Although you may have lifetime in which case it just stinks all around because you're paying extra for Tivo's mistake, IMO.


----------



## MeInDallas

Yea I totally agree thats a Tivo issue. If it was a Time Warner issue then you wouldnt be able to tune the channel at all, but if you just switch the channel to another one, and then back again, the channel magically appears. I get this so many times a day its very frustrating.

I sent my info to Kaitlyn, and even posted a video on Youtube and Margret looked at it and guess what?!?!? The same ole same ole I've heard a million times "oh thats TWC not Tivo" . . it didnt take them very long at all to blame TWC. It reminded me so much of the other issue I was having where the channels would just disappear, and then I had to reboot to get them back, and after over a year someone in engineering finally admitted to me that it was a software bug, and the fix would be included in the Spring 2013 update, and sure enough about 16 months later it was fixed. I'm still soaking my feet from all that hoop jumping I did for no reason.


----------



## dave13077

skaggs said:


> I have been unable to tune multiple random channels for some time now. I live near Albany, NY in zip code 12303 and use Time Warner Cable with an M-card and tuning adapter. I have been a TiVo user for over 10 years, have 3 lifetime subscriptions, and have previously been a Beta-tester.
> 
> The issue only seems to happen on my 4tuner Elite, not the 2-tuner model.
> 
> Most of the time, we see a blank black screen when switching channels, although occasionally, we will receive the, "channel temporarily unavailable" message.
> 
> This unable to tune issue has frustrated my wife so much that she has convinced me to pay additional to rent a TWC supplied cable box so we can actually watch the channels we pay for. There are no issues tuning any channels with the TWC supplied box. We both prefer the TiVo, but when you repeatedly tune to channels and they do not appear, it is very frustrating.
> 
> I sent a private message to Kaitlyn from TiVo with my TSN.


I am in Syracuse NY with Time Warner. I have the exact same issues as you. With my Elite and not my 2 tuner Premiere. My ticket with Tivo is 121212-015451. Feel free to give them that number as a reference.

As a work around I have found that if all 4 tuners (including Mini if you have any) are on a DIFFERENT channel than this will not happen. The random blank channels happens almost every time if more than one tuner is on the same channel. For example if the Mini is on channel 160 and I tune to 160 on my Elite than the next channel(s) I go to will not always tune. What I do is make sure the Mini is on a channel that you never watch on the Elite when you turn it off. Every morning I scroll through all the tuners on the Elite and make sure they are all on a different channel. If you do this your issues will most likely decrease. I have explained this all to Tivo (hence the 2012 ticket number) and they are unwilling or unable to fix this. Every time I try to get an update on the issue that just send me the same email asking the same questions I have answered 2-3 times.

Try it out and let me know if it helps.


----------



## skaggs

dave13077 said:


> I am in Syracuse NY with Time Warner. I have the exact same issues as you. With my Elite and not my 2 tuner Premiere. My ticket with Tivo is 121212-015451. Feel free to give them that number as a reference.
> 
> As a work around I have found that if all 4 tuners (including Mini if you have any) are on a DIFFERENT channel than this will not happen. The random blank channels happens almost every time if more than one tuner is on the same channel. For example if the Mini is on channel 160 and I tune to 160 on my Elite than the next channel(s) I go to will not always tune. What I do is make sure the Mini is on a channel that you never watch on the Elite when you turn it off. Every morning I scroll through all the tuners on the Elite and make sure they are all on a different channel. If you do this your issues will most likely decrease. I have explained this all to Tivo (hence the 2012 ticket number) and they are unwilling or unable to fix this. Every time I try to get an update on the issue that just send me the same email asking the same questions I have answered 2-3 times.
> 
> Try it out and let me know if it helps.


Dave & mjonis:

Thanks for the feedback. Sometimes it's good to know you are not the only one with an issue.

Dave: I started up my A/V system and tuned the TiVo to channel 1841, which is HGTV HD on Albany TWC. Whattaya know, I got the "Channel is Temporarily Unavailable" message. So, I looked at the other 3 tuners to see if any are also tuned to 1841, and none of them were, as you can see from the photo below.










BTW, I am an SU alum.


----------



## robpgreer

The same problem for me too. Charter Cable in Pasadena CA. XL4 lifetime. To fix requires a hard reboot. Sometimes calling and asking the cable company to send an auth fixes it when a reboot doesn't fix it. It's happening more frequently. I mostly get a V53 on several channels. This problem doesn't happen on my XL2. If TiVo support wants to put me on the list that would be great but I'm losing hope after reading these posts.


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## skaggs

Last night (Sunday), when we settled down to watch True Blood and Dexter on our 4tuner Premiere Elite TiVo, both programs recorded a blank black screen.

Upstairs in the bedroom, the 2tuner Premiere recorded both programs flawlessly.

When is TiVo going to fix this?


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## k2ue

skaggs said:


> Last night (Sunday), when we settled down to watch True Blood and Dexter on our 4tuner Premiere Elite TiVo, both programs recorded a blank black screen.
> 
> Upstairs in the bedroom, the 2tuner Premiere recorded both programs flawlessly.
> 
> When is TiVo going to fix this?


That's pretty definitive proof that the program was THERE to be recorded, but for whatever reason the software never decoded the stream. It's hard to believe TiVo can't get to the bottom of this, with simple cases like that to narrow the possibilities.

I have not yet encountered a blank recording, but we seldom record SDV channels. But channel surfing is impossible in the SDV group.


----------



## dave13077

My concern is that this is not a software issue but a hardware issue. I think the Elite/XL4 units are way under powered, tuners included. If this is in fact the case then Tivo will never admit there is an issue and they will just ignore it until the Series 5 units come out. Then their response will be... "buy a new unit as we are no longer supporting the Series 4".


----------



## dave13077

skaggs said:


> Dave & mjonis:
> 
> Thanks for the feedback. Sometimes it's good to know you are not the only one with an issue.
> 
> Dave: I started up my A/V system and tuned the TiVo to channel 1841, which is HGTV HD on Albany TWC. Whattaya know, I got the "Channel is Temporarily Unavailable" message. So, I looked at the other 3 tuners to see if any are also tuned to 1841, and none of them were, as you can see from the photo below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, I am an SU alum.


The key would be, was the tuner you changed also on one of those other channels BEFORE you tuned to HGTV? BTW I normally just get a blank screen and not the "channel unavailable" message.


----------



## k2ue

dave13077 said:


> My concern is that this is not a software issue but a hardware issue. I think the Elite/XL4 units are way under powered, tuners included. If this is in fact the case then Tivo will never admit there is an issue and they will just ignore it until the Series 5 units come out. Then their response will be... "buy a new unit as we are no longer supporting the Series 4".


How could "underpowered" prevent solving the problem, in concrete terms? Just because you can't do the right thing fast, doesn't mean you can't do it slowly.


----------



## tomhorsley

dave13077 said:


> My concern is that this is not a software issue but a hardware issue. I think the Elite/XL4 units are way under powered, tuners included. If this is in fact the case then Tivo will never admit there is an issue and they will just ignore it until the Series 5 units come out. Then their response will be... "buy a new unit as we are no longer supporting the Series 4".


I doubt it. All my issues with this started happened the exact same time the 20.3 update showed up. It was very very rare before that, it was constant after that, so it is clearly mostly a software issue they made much worse with 20.3.


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## philhu

k2ue said:


> How could "underpowered" prevent solving the problem, in concrete terms? Just because you can't do the right thing fast, doesn't mean you can't do it slowly.


Slower machines/processor means interrupts are not handled quick enough in software, causing timeouts during processing.

Example. When the cable card syncs to the channel, the box has to take the interrupt in realtime and start the frame buffer setup. If it misses by some amount, due to slow timing/processor, it might get an error, that the tivo software doesn't know how to handle. Hence, the cannot tune channel generic error.

"A little birdy told me  "


----------



## Cynthia Blue

Happening with me now too... first time I've experienced it was starting this weekend. I don't know when my last update was, but I am on the 20.3.1 version of the software. My first message was:

Problem with the signal on this channel. Trying again. (V53).

I unplugged the tivo box, removed and replaced the cable card, then plugged it back in after 5 minutes.

now I'm getting
This channel is not authorized. Contcact your cable provide for more information (V58). But my husband's Comcast DVR works fine, and gets all the channels. So it's not a channel issue.

I'm also occasionally getting a CableCard Error, that randomly pops up on the channels I can see. Though I seem able to get regular OTA channels, on the box, I can't pick up any of the cable only channels.

Ugh, frustrating.


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## tomhorsley

You can actually remove and re-insert the cable card without turning off or rebooting the TiVo. Sometimes that fixes things quicker (or not, depending on what it happens to feel like).

I find myself wondering how hard it would be to build a robot to pull the card out and re-insert it .

(Maybe weaknees could start selling one).


----------



## Cynthia Blue

tomhorsley said:


> You can actually remove and re-insert the cable card without turning off or rebooting the TiVo. Sometimes that fixes things quicker (or not, depending on what it happens to feel like).
> 
> I find myself wondering how hard it would be to build a robot to pull the card out and re-insert it .
> 
> (Maybe weaknees could start selling one).


I tried that first... removing reinserting the cable card, that didn't do much either. Got some channels back for a bit but then they left again.


----------



## k2ue

philhu said:


> Slower machines/processor means interrupts are not handled quick enough in software, causing timeouts during processing.
> 
> Example. When the cable card syncs to the channel, the box has to take the interrupt in realtime and start the frame buffer setup. If it misses by some amount, due to slow timing/processor, it might get an error, that the tivo software doesn't know how to handle. Hence, the cannot tune channel generic error.
> 
> "A little birdy told me  "


No processor is too slow to handle an interrupt IF is it allowed to handle it. They can be re-ordered to allow something else less critical to starve, if necessary. These are not unusual programming challenges.


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## velouria28

tomhorsley said:


> You can actually remove and re-insert the cable card without turning off or rebooting the TiVo. Sometimes that fixes things quicker (or not, depending on what it happens to feel like).
> 
> I find myself wondering how hard it would be to build a robot to pull the card out and re-insert it .
> 
> (Maybe weaknees could start selling one).


The remove and re-insert is how I solve it and then it's good for another week or two.


----------



## skaggs

I checked the signal strength on some channels.

The channels that tune in have a 92 signal strength.

The channels that do not tune in have a 0 (zero) signal strength.


----------



## k2ue

Curiously the mistuning is gone today, the TiVo has already called in twice, and is scheduled to call in a third time later today. Curious indeed.


----------



## mblloyd

From the For What It's Worth Department:

I have gone through the exact signal strength readings as Skaggs. Channel 105 = 0% strength, Channel 104= 90%. My problem also ties to a loss of Internet at the same time. The DTAs are fine all the while. Since this has occurred again just now, I have not taken the time to read all the preceding comments. Sorry.

However, after talking to Comcast and TiVo, I feel I have a firm grasp on my particular situation/problem.

I get very angry when the losses of both are blamed, by Comcast, on my house wiring for cable TV. Unfortunately, they have been correct every time. Comcast and my conclusion is that my TV coax wiring seems to have an intermittent problem (maybe caused by ambient heat?).

My TiVo does not reboot nor do I reboot it (anymore). That never fixed either the Internet or cable TV loss. 

I disconnect the four coax (home) runs from the Comcast provided splitter and reboot the modem. All Internet connections then work fine. If I reattach only one of my coaxes to the TiVo, all Premier signal strengths return to 90+%. 

The most recent occurrence was this afternoon. I have put quick disconnects (F-type) on the coax cables so when it happens again, the bad guy run can be identified more quickly.

A bad coax, in RF terms may be like a stub. I don't know the proper term in digital cable TV/Internet language but Comcast described it as selective packet loss. Yes, this can suck Ch.5 down to 0 signal strength while Ch.4 sits at 90%. Other channel strengths are all over the map when this happens.

Disconnecting all of the other TV runs fixes it. I hope I can count on this also meaning my coax to the TiVo is OK.

If all of your other attempts have done nothing, keep this in mind. I'll not forget the next time it happens to me.

Whoops, it is back and it affects the antenna signal in the TiVo as well, all dropped to 50%. Reboot clears it to 95%!


----------



## k2ue

k2ue said:


> Curiously the mistuning is gone today, the TiVo has already called in twice, and is scheduled to call in a third time later today. Curious indeed.


Still solid after the third call-in today. Another is scheduled for tomorrow. I wonder if they are gathering data from people who have reported problems here, and trying fixes? Whatever they did worked.


----------



## k2ue

k2ue said:


> Still solid after the third call-in today. Another is scheduled for tomorrow. I wonder if they are gathering data from people who have reported problems here, and trying fixes? Whatever they did worked.


Still rock-solid today. Has anyone else noticed a change? It is looking like they do know how to fix this!


----------



## Cynthia Blue

I'm still having problems... been away from the TV for a few days... first going to try Comcast to see if they'll reauth the cable card, and resend the channel list. If that doesn't work, I'll be calling TiVo. 

I did said a PM to Katelyn and gave her my info so maybe that'll help too.


----------



## k2ue

k2ue said:


> Still rock-solid today. Has anyone else noticed a change? It is looking like they do know how to fix this!


And now it is whacked again. Very frustrating.


----------



## Cynthia Blue

I called comcast a couple of days ago, they strengthened the signal... all was well for about 2 days, but now I'm not getting the channels again.


----------



## m_jonis

skaggs said:


> Last night (Sunday), when we settled down to watch True Blood and Dexter on our 4tuner Premiere Elite TiVo, both programs recorded a blank black screen.
> 
> Upstairs in the bedroom, the 2tuner Premiere recorded both programs flawlessly.
> 
> When is TiVo going to fix this?


Probably another 6-12 months given past experiences when there's been bugs like this.

I've had it happen ONLY on my XL4 Premiers (the Tivo HD NEVER have this problem). Further, I've had it happen while watching the channel.

Meaning it was on Cartoon Network HD (18something or other) I was WATCHING the show. 8:30 came, it "tuned" to the channel (even though I was ALREADY watching it) to record Star Wars and it came up black.

I've also had it happen on NON-SDV channels.

In my case, usually the only way to get things back was:
a) reboot the Tivo
or
b) Reboot the Tuning adapter.

But again, now that I'm on Verizon FIOS, no SDV, no Tuning Adapter, but now I get the lovely "channel not authorized" v58 error about 5-10x/day on random channels now.

I'm gonna call and cancel Tivo service tomorrow (i'm not going to pay to be a beta tester for Tivo and have unreliable service), unless they credit me until they get this fixed.


----------



## Cynthia Blue

I don't have a tuning adapter....

my channels came back up for a half hour tonight, then when down again. Called comcast again... but the problem is probably not on their end, so I put in a ticket with Tivo.

I'm still on the 2 year contract, we only started our Tivo service last October.


----------



## tomhorsley

m_jonis said:


> Meaning it was on Cartoon Network HD (18something or other) I was WATCHING the show. 8:30 came, it "tuned" to the channel (even though I was ALREADY watching it) to record Star Wars and it came up black.


That's one of the more common failure modes I see. Everything is working perfectly till the instant the recording is supposed to start, then the channel goes black. There is no way this is a Comcast problem (other than being related to the cable card firmware folks claim needs an update - but the same cable card had vastly fewer problems before 20.3 showed up).


----------



## Cynthia Blue

Well I did a email service request with Tivo, and they are telling me it's Comcast and the cable card.... 

My channels are intermittent.. sometimes on, sometimes off. Comcast is going to send someone out to check if they can see anything going on. I'm not optimistic.


----------



## tomhorsley

Yea, they told me it was signal level. Right. Signal level that just happens to go to zero right when a recording starts. Signal level that disappears for the TiVo, but is perfectly normal on my TV tuned to the same QAM channel. Signal level problems that only started when I got a 20.3 update. Not really interested in wasting my time on the email interaction any more at this point.


----------



## nejman

I just registered and wanted to give my 2 cents.

Cable Provider: Charter

Issue:
Several of my channels are saying "Not Authorized Contact Cable Provider" since Tivo version 2.3.x update.

Actions Taken:
I've called Charter and had both my CableCard (Scientific Atlanta) and my Tuning Adapter (Cisco) replaced. Please note everything was working perfectly fine before this update and changing the Tuning Adapter or the CableCard didn't resolve any of my issues.

I've spoken to at least 4 reps from TiVo by this point, their reasons for my TiVo not showing my channels have ranged from:
- Your Signal Strength isn't high enough (my signal strength has always been around the same mark, even before this whole "update")
- Call Charter, your CableCard is defective (called charter and got it replaced... guess what they said... Call Charter and get another one, this one is defective as well)
- Call Charter, your CableCard needs to get authorized (3 way call to charter... they send the signal and nothing, restart TiVo... nothing...)
- Call Charter your Tuning Adapter is probably interfering with the signal Charter is sending out. Removed tuning adapter and asked for signal to be sent out and nothing.

I really just want to hear this from TiVo, "hey looks like we're getting a lot of these issues and we're working on the solution" rather than "Call Charter" or "I've never heard of this issue".


Regards,
An unhappy TiVo Customer


----------



## Cynthia Blue

Comcast came to our house on Sunday, and while he said he couldn't find anything wrong (the channels were actually view-able when he showed up), he did replace the CableCard. I'd been having on-again off-again reception for a couple of days.


As of Monday night, I hadn't lost reception at all since the CableCard was replaced... my fingers are crossed, though, not sure if they will stay.


----------



## cptlapcat

nejman said:


> I just registered and wanted to give my 2 cents.
> 
> Cable Provider: Charter
> 
> Issue:
> Several of my channels are saying "Not Authorized Contact Cable Provider" since Tivo version 2.3.x update.
> 
> Actions Taken:
> I've called Charter and had both my CableCard (Scientific Atlanta) and my Tuning Adapter (Cisco) replaced. Please note everything was working perfectly fine before this update and changing the Tuning Adapter or the CableCard didn't resolve any of my issues.
> 
> I've spoken to at least 4 reps from TiVo by this point, their reasons for my TiVo not showing my channels have ranged from:
> - Your Signal Strength isn't high enough (my signal strength has always been around the same mark, even before this whole "update")
> - Call Charter, your CableCard is defective (called charter and got it replaced... guess what they said... Call Charter and get another one, this one is defective as well)
> - Call Charter, your CableCard needs to get authorized (3 way call to charter... they send the signal and nothing, restart TiVo... nothing...)
> - Call Charter your Tuning Adapter is probably interfering with the signal Charter is sending out. Removed tuning adapter and asked for signal to be sent out and nothing.
> 
> I really just want to hear this from TiVo, "hey looks like we're getting a lot of these issues and we're working on the solution" rather than "Call Charter" or "I've never heard of this issue".
> 
> Regards,
> An unhappy TiVo Customer


I feel your pain as a Charter customer. I have been having this problem on and off for the past year to the point that I was ready to dump Charter last week for Direct TV so I could get a consistent signal. I don't know if it is Charter or Tivo's fault but I was ready to give up my $1000 Tivo Premiere Elite and Tivo Mini. Last week Charter sent a supervisor that was knowledgeable about Tivo(again), replaced my tuning adapter (again), replaced my cable card (again) and said the signal was perfect. Lo and behold all of my channels are now working (sometimes I have to rock the up and down button to tune when I first turn on the TV).

What is the communities opinion? Is this problem the result of the cable companies (tuning adapter, cable card etc.) or Tivo.

I now have a perfect HD picture and all of my channels but I am not holding my breath.

I guess my real question is this. Has anyone resolved the issue by contacting Tivo?


----------



## tomhorsley

cptlapcat said:


> What is the communities opinion? Is this problem the result of the cable companies (tuning adapter, cable card etc.) or Tivo.


I'm not a "community", but it is hard to believe the flood of reports of this that all started coming in following the 20.3 update aren't primarily TiVo's fault. I do, in fact, have one of the scientific atlanta cable cards with (according to reports) a known bug in the firmware, but whatever TiVo did in 20.3 is triggering this bug infinitely more frequently.

Comcast is supposed to be upgrading all their infrastructure (which would include cable card firmware updates), maybe if that happens in the next few months the problems will go away.


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## philhu

Re: All channels working now.

Wait a few days. After the resets, forced whatevers, it all seems to work for 2-3 days, then 'times out' or whatever again.

Read alot of people saying all fixed, then bam, it does it again


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## sharkster

I haven't had a channel issue for MANY weeks now - probably a couple-three months. But something different and weird happened in the middle of the night, when I couldn't sleep. Around 3am I turned the TV back on in my bdrm and it looked fine, but I went to change it to see if there was something to watch to go back to sleep it went bad and even when I tried going back to that initial channel. From then it was all black screens on both tuners with a V52 error. This one was new to me.

I restarted the Tivo and it was still the same so I just went in to one of my recordings. Later on, I started changing channels and found at that point that some of them worked (of course, none that I wanted to watch - one had honey boo boo and I thought maybe I was actually asleep having a nightmare that I'd be stuck there forever, but I digress...).

Went back to my recordings and decided, after completing another couple of shows, that I would try restarting the TA. But when I went back to live tv everything was normal again. 

Oh - Charter here too, FWIW 

I hope this problem doesn't start up again. A few months ago I was having a frequent problem with channels not tuning and it was a nightmare - almost as bad as being stuck on the boo boo show.


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## sharkster

Furthermore, on the outside chance that anybody at Tivo is listening - 

I have to say that subsequent to my post this morning I had my bdrm tv tuning fine again after the middle of the night thing. Then when I got up I checked my living room one (Both have Premieres) and it was fine at that point.

But I also discovered that something that recorded during the time in the middle of the night, on the LIVING RM Tivo, when I discovered my bdrm Tivo not tuning properly, was cut off before it finished. So both screwed up at the same time.

I have restarted Tivos and restarted TAs. I wish I knew more because I have a pretty good feeling that a call to Tivo or to Charter would just make me more frustrated with no resolution. 

So, that tells me that both Tivos stopped tuning properly at the same time and now, early afternoon where I am, on both TVs, a whole bunch of channels aren't tuning many of the channels. Not all - it's random but probably a little more not working than are. But it's on both at the same time again. Some of the movie channels work and some don't. Same goes for the various (I get just about everything) HD channels in the 700 and 800 number realm. Of course, many of the ones I watch are problematic and most of the ones I couldn't care less about are fine.

That also tells me that it is not my TA or CC because why would both go down at the same times - multiples times? It tells me that it's something on Tivo's end. 

I got really damn tired of this for several months early this year and it had gone away. Now it's back. This is total BS.


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## JandS

We had a single late night session of channel not found / V52 errors about a month ago on our XL2 (connected by MoCa to the downstairs XL4 + internet), affecting many channels. Settings > Network information showed that it was downloading an update, which eventually went on for hours. 

The downstairs XL4 didn't have any problem at the same exact time nor with the same V52-ized channels. 

After about 8 hours I unplugged the XL2's MoCa electric plug and coax, left it off for about 20 min. Did not reboot the Tivo. The channels were fine after that point and we haven't had any repeat V52 errors or missing channels.

Next time we have anything similar I'll pull the MoCa connections sooner, as it seemed like the update was somehow "stuck" and thereby causing the channel error msgs.

Comcast, no tuning adaptor.


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## nejman

I'm receiving analog channels but no digital channels.


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## sharkster

This is generally so random for me. The missing/non-tuning channels are always so hit and miss. After those episodes the other day it's been fine. I hope it stays that way. 

I'm at my wit's end with this, after all those months of problems a while back. I doubt that it's the cable because other, non-Tivo, TVs don't have the problem. I doubt that it's the equipment because I cannot see BOTH tuning adapters and/or CABLECards going fubar at the same time.


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## nejman

My TiVo is no longer saying this channel is unauthorized, contact your cable company. 2nd guy from Charter came by and fixed it.

Turns out for some reason Charter had updated my account and removed the CableCard from the account. Tech added it back on the account.


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## tomhorsley

Here's a new one: Playing around with the TiVo today, I see it claim there is no signal. I navigate to cable card diagnostics "test channel" menu item. The picture comes in perfectly fine on the channel that has no signal. I hit clear to get out of test mode, go back to live TV, and I'm back to no signal again. If there was ever any need to suspect this might not be a TiVo software problem, I think I've completely eliminated that possibility now.


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## moyekj

tomhorsley said:


> Here's a new one: Playing around with the TiVo today, I see it claim there is no signal. I navigate to cable card diagnostics "test channel" menu item. The picture comes in perfectly fine on the channel that has no signal. I hit clear to get out of test mode, go back to live TV, and I'm back to no signal again. If there was ever any need to suspect this might not be a TiVo software problem, I think I've completely eliminated that possibility now.


 Could be the "test channel" page was using a different tuner than the live TV foreground tuner.


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## tomhorsley

moyekj said:


> Could be the "test channel" page was using a different tuner than the live TV foreground tuner.


I don't think so, I use the Live TV button to switch tuners and change channels to attempt to get both tuners involved, and they both tell me no signal (on pretty much every channel at the moment - it has good days and bad days), but the cable card test comes in fine every time.


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## moyekj

tomhorsley said:


> I don't think so, I use the Live TV button to switch tuners and change channels to attempt to get both tuners involved, and they both tell me no signal (on pretty much every channel at the moment - it has good days and bad days), but the cable card test comes in fine every time.


 OK, just wondering, because TiVo doesn't normally let you manually tune more than 1 tuner to same channel (even though it boots up that way). So you have to actually change foreground tuner to a different channel, switch to other tuner and then tune to the original foreground tuner channel to have it swap tuners. i.e. Say on a 2 tuner unit foreground is 1002 and other tuner is 1004, if you swap tuners and then punch in 1002 TiVo will just take you back to other tuner. So in this example starting on foreground tuner on channel 1002 you would have to punch in a different channel than both tuners (say 1005), then swap tuners, then punch in 1002. I haven't actually tested the behavior recently but that's my recollection of how it behaves.
To be really sure you have to look at Diagnostics page and keep track of which tuner id is with which channel and then check that page again once you think you've swapped the channel to other tuner.


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## tomhorsley

moyekj said:


> OK, just wondering, because TiVo doesn't normally let you manually tune more than 1 tuner to same channel (even though it boots up that way). So you have to actually change foreground tuner to a different channel, switch to other tuner and then tune to the original foreground tuner channel to have it swap tuners.


That's what I do, and it keeps saying no signal (or did yesterday), but every time I go back to the cable card diagnostics, the picture comes in fine.


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## moyekj

tomhorsley said:


> That's what I do, and it keeps saying no signal (or did yesterday), but every time I go back to the cable card diagnostics, the picture comes in fine.


 That is very strange/interesting and sounds like a good piece of information for TiVo to know.


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## tomhorsley

moyekj said:


> That is very strange/interesting and sounds like a good piece of information for TiVo to know.


Yea, I added a note to the ticket I submitted (not that I actually believe it will do any good considering the rote script-like nature of the initial response I got in the ticket).


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## slowbiscuit

After months of no serious issues after the update (just the known minor ones posted in the OP), I sit down to watch the news yesterday and get greeted with the V53 error - Problem tuning channel. On everything. News program recordings are fried, won't play with black screen stuck at 0 mins. and then errors out. Pulling/reinserting card does not fix but a reboot does. Interestingly after the reboot, one of the recordings disappears from the NPL but the other one is still there (and still won't play so I delete it).

Definitely a Tivo issue for me, my WMC HTPC with SD Prime tuner and Cablecard on another outlet had no issue recording the same programs at same time, and the signal levels are not as good on that drop.

First time I've seen this particular error since I've had the Elite, over a year ago. I've seen the occasional error tuning a particular channel but it always corrects itself without a reboot, this time the box was completely hosed tuning-wise. Hope it's just a rare event, I'm on Comcast with no TAs.


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## tomhorsley

tomhorsley said:


> Yea, I added a note to the ticket I submitted (not that I actually believe it will do any good considering the rote script-like nature of the initial response I got in the ticket).


Well, they did tell me I am now on the priority list for updates (but they also said they don't have an update yet, which is why I wish they'd let me go back to before 20.3).

The burning question now is: Will comcast roll out the firmware updates for cable cards before tivo rolls out an update to work around the firmware problems? .


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## sldavis1952

Lost all channels again. Noticed it at about 9:47 PM central time, 7/28/2013. pulled the cablecard. Waited about a minute and inserted cablecard. The channels came back for a couple of minutes and then lost all of them again. I did a restart and the channels came back for about 5 minutes. Lost all channels again about 10:05 PM. Doing another restart.


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## mblloyd

Most recently I have seen my cable AND antenna signal lstrength both, and simultaneously, go from 94 to 50 on signal strength. Reboot fixed it back at 94.
Does anyone else report this happening with antenna input?


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## Cynthia Blue

Well after comcast came out and replaced my CableCard, I haven't had any more issues... all channels have been stable... so in my case, perhaps it was a CableCard issue... of course I hope I don't jinx myself now.


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## naparish

My problem doesn't quite fit this thread, but the symptoms are mostly the same. I have a Premiere and an HD, both connected to Comcast with cablecards, and they both lost *most* of their channels (HD and non-HD) a few days ago. On my Premiere, I get the V52 error that other people have reported in this thread. I contacted Comcast via phone, and the useless tech offered to send a signal to turn off and restart my boxes (not understanding that I have cablecards and non-Comcast boxes). He eventually gave up and gave me a new phone number to call -- which turned out to be TiVo's number.

I then used Comcast's online chat support, and that tech supposedly sent reset signals to both of my cablecards -- but there was no change. I've also tried restarting my TiVos, but I still am missing most of my channels. I had assumed it was a Comcast problem, since both TiVos went out about the same time, and are different models -- but after seeing this thread, I'm not so sure about that. Maybe both of them upgraded to the (apparently) dreaded version 20.3 at the same time?

Comcast would probably have to send a tech out to try and fix my problem, but if it's a TiVo issue, that's kind of pointless. Other than opening a ticket with TiVo, does anybody have any other solutions that might work?

-- Neal


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## naparish

naparish said:


> My problem doesn't quite fit this thread, but the symptoms are mostly the same. [snip] I had assumed it was a Comcast problem, since both TiVos went out about the same time, and are different models -- but after seeing this thread, I'm not so sure about that. Maybe both of them upgraded to the (apparently) dreaded version 20.3 at the same time?


It can't be the software version, since my HD has different software. It appears that I simply have a weak signal from Comcast. On one of the channels I *am* able to view, the SNR is 28 dB and Signal strength is 40, while TiVo says the SNR should always be 30 - 35, the signal should be 85 - 99.

-- Neal


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## CrispyCritter

naparish said:


> It can't be the software version, since my HD has different software. It appears that I simply have a weak signal from Comcast. On one of the channels I *am* able to view, the SNR is 28 dB and Signal strength is 40, while TiVo says the SNR should always be 30 - 35, the signal should be 85 - 99.


I'm glad you found your problem.

IMO, it's quite clear that the overall problem of losing all channels is also a signal problem, perhaps in the OOB data to the cablecard for many folks. Too many people have had the issue happen to multiple TiVos at once, and a number of people have fixed the problem by general signal improvement.

I'm not saying that TiVo is completely innocent in the problem - what I suspect happened is that TiVo fixed handling some marginal signal problems in the last release (several folks reported the problem fixed for them), but in the process made the problem worse for other marginal signal folks. I remember similar things happening back when cablecards were first introduced for TiVos. In particular the FIOS folks had too strong of a signal, and they had to put in various attenuators until TiVo finally got a solution that worked for everybody.

I've never had the issue, so I can't speak from personal experience (I have a nice strong Comcast signal, except when the FIOS folks cut the line!)


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## tomhorsley

I was able to absolutely and positively verify that my problems were NOT with signal quality: Any time I'm getting a stupid error about a channel (the error it picks varies), I can always go to the cable card diagnostics screen where I can test channels. On that screen the channels with the purported signal or authorization problem come in loud and clear with perfect video (other than the annoying "this is a channel test" overlay). It is absolutely a 100% TiVo software problem.


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## CrispyCritter

tomhorsley said:


> I was able to absolutely and positively verify that my problems were NOT with signal quality: Any time I'm getting a stupid error about a channel (the error it picks varies), I can always go to the cable card diagnostics screen where I can test channels. On that screen the channels with the purported signal or authorization problem come in loud and clear with perfect video (other than the annoying "this is a channel test" overlay). It is absolutely a 100% TiVo software problem.


I specifically did not say it was a general signal quality problem; it's pretty clearly a problem connected with cablecard mapping, which suggests that the cablecard is not getting an expected signal from the cable company. It could be due to interference in the cablecard OOB range (about 1600 MHz???), or it could be due to bad data being sent from the headend, or it could be due to bad cablecard software, for instance.

The fact that most people do NOT encounter this problem, and are running identical software to you, means that either it's a problem with TiVo hardware interactions or it's a problem with the particular signal that the hardware is receiving. Given the number of people who have had the problem on multiple TiVos at the same time, and others who have replaced multiple TiVos and still had the problem, TiVo hardware seems very unlikely to be the culprit. That leaves the TiVo not handling the signal it is getting from your particular cable company headend.


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## slowbiscuit

Uh yeah, that's why a reboot of the Tivo clears up the problem for me (which fortunately is a rare occurrence on my Elite). 

Do you seriously believe that Tivo is not the issue here? I think it is.


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## CrispyCritter

slowbiscuit said:


> Uh yeah, that's why a reboot of the Tivo clears up the problem for me (which fortunately is a rare occurrence on my Elite).
> 
> Do you seriously believe that Tivo is not the issue here? I think it is.


Didn't I say that I thought TiVo could very well be partially at fault here?

The scenario as I see it is that a bad signal comes into the cablecard from the cable company, whether due to general signal interference/weakness or sent by the cable company headend improperly. Either the cablecard or the TiVo interface to the cablecard gets messed up by the faulty signal, and the cable mapping of channel to frequency (and other info) gets wiped out. The TiVo is no longer looking at the correct frequency when trying to tune a channel, and therefore complains about no signal.

That the initial cause is a bad signal I think is very clear - nothing else fits the facts. The rest is more speculative - it fits the facts as I know them but perhaps there are other explanations. I believe the cable mapping gets reset (at least temporarily) when you do a cablecard channel test - that's why you get warned you will lose all recordings in progress as well as live-tv buffers. So the mapping for at least that channel should be valid during channel testing, as is shown by Tomhorsely's experiences. It also gets reset on a reboot, and that jibes with your experiences.

Now whether it's the cablecard that is getting messed up by the bad signal or the TiVo, I don't know. TiVo can't arbitrarily ask for a cablecard mapping reset any time they detect a problem, since that evidently loses all recordings in progress. The rule is to accommodate as many sorts of bad input data as you can, but either the TiVo or the cablecard is getting things wrong here. It's quite possible that the cable companies have found (not on purpose, I'm sure) yet another way that they can not follow the standards, and TiVo is going to have to figure out yet another workaround, once they figure out exactly what the cause is.


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## tomhorsley

The biggest problem is 20.3. I got this maybe once every few months, then the day 20.3 showed up, I get it constantly. My preferred fix would be to go back to the old TiVo firmware till they actually figure out how to fix it, but they won't do that. They do claim I'm on a priority update list for when they have a fix (but they also have no estimates for when that might be).


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## slowbiscuit

CrispyCritter said:


> Didn't I say that I thought TiVo could very well be partially at fault here?


No, you said that Tivo seems to be very unlikely as the culprit, and I and others here totally disagree when you can either reboot the box or reseat the card to fix the problem. Whether it's a flaky interaction with the card or not, there should be some way for it to auto-recover without a reboot. Force a card reload and reset the tuners, for example (just throwing out a wild guess here), because you're screwed anyway recordings-wise.


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## dnorth12

Just experienced this myself for the first time. Woke up this morning to find all channels showing the V53 error. It was working fine last evening as I watched the Seahawks beat Green Bay 

One thing that I have not seen anyone else mention, is that none of my recorded shows would play. They all showed a blank screen with time bar at the bottom. No video and no audio.

After 10 minutes of mucking around I selected to restart the elite and everything returned to normal.

Provider is Comcast. 
Software 20.3.1-01-2-758
Connection via those little flip up network thingies. (had 'em so long that I forgot what they are called)
Current signal strength 94
Current SNR 37 db
No tuning adapter
No external storage
Sent PM to Kaitlyn at TiVo.


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## timstack8969

Been having this problem since the beginning the year. Out of the blue when I change channels sometimes I get the message "Channel not Available". very annoying. I thought it was a Comcast cable card software update problem but now I believe it's the TIVO software. Also the screen will go "Black Out" for about 2 seconds. I was starting to think Comcast of Garden State, NJ was using "SDV" but this happens on local channels so they wouldn't be using "SDV" on local channels. Anyway like I said very annoying. I'm afraid to pull out cable card. I don't feel like call Comcast for "pairing" I hope this is fixed on next software update.


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## skaggs

I posted in this topic back in July and the issue seemed to get better for a while. I have a Premiere Elite XL4 and the issue was random channels would not tune. I would receive a black screen. Sometimes, I would get a "_V32_" or similar error message, sometimes I would get a "_Channel not available, press enter to attempt to tune this channel_" message.

As of this week, the problem is back and I became frustrated enough to call TiVo Customer Support today.

The TiVo support rep seemed knowledgeable and had me go through some of the DVR Diagnostics screens. The levels we checked were all OK. Eventually, he had me tune to a channel that was not displaying (black screen) and I entered the DVR Diagnostics, where I paged down to the 4th screen. Notice the "Signal Strength -" shown in the image below.










This seemed to throw up a red flag for the TiVo Support rep. He put me on hold and when he came back on the line, said he would conference in Time Warner Cable Cablecard support.

Gina from TWC was very knowledgeable and he me go to the Tuning Adapter Diagnostics screen in the TiVo menu. In the 2nd page of the Status Summary screen, she had me read the three lines that had "dBmV" values: Tuner, FDC, and RDC. She said the FDC and RDC were OK, but the Tuner level should be between -7 dBmV and 7 dBmV. My reading was 7 dBmV and she felt that was too high.










She feels it is definitely the signal strength to the tuning adapter and scheduled a technician to come to my house Wednesday at 5PM.

We shall see.


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## mrizzo80

Have the exact same issue as you describe.

Have noticed it randomly all year. Navigating away from the problem channel, switching to a different tuner, and then typing in the problem channel number (thus guaranteeing it pulls the channel in on a different tuner) will always (or at least almost always; can't remember if it has ever not worked) pull the channel in just fine. If I had this issue occur only on a single tuner I would think I had a tuner failure on my TiVo. I've seen this issue occur on all 4 tuners. I think it's an issue TiVo needs to fix on the software side.

Keep us posted if the techs help out at all.



skaggs said:


> I posted in this topic back in July and the issue seemed to get better for a while. I have a Premiere Elite XL4 and the issue was random channels would not tune. I would receive a black screen. Sometimes, I would get a "_V32_" or similar error message, sometimes I would get a "_Channel not available, press enter to attempt to tune this channel_" message.
> 
> As of this week, the problem is back and I became frustrated enough to call TiVo Customer Support today.
> 
> The TiVo support rep seemed knowledgeable and had me go through some of the DVR Diagnostics screens. The levels we checked were all OK. Eventually, he had me tune to a channel that was not displaying (black screen) and I entered the DVR Diagnostics, where I paged down to the 4th screen. Notice the "Signal Strength -" shown in the image below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This seemed to throw up a red flag for the TiVo Support rep. He put me on hold and when he came back on the line, said he would conference in Time Warner Cable Cablecard support.
> 
> Gina from TWC was very knowledgeable and he me go to the Tuning Adapter Diagnostics screen in the TiVo menu. In the 2nd page of the Status Summary screen, she had me read the three lines that had "dBmV" values: Tuner, FDC, and RDC. She said the FDC and RDC were OK, but the Tuner level should be between -7 dBmV and 7 dBmV. My reading was 7 dBmV and she felt that was too high.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She feels it is definitely the signal strength to the tuning adapter and scheduled a technician to come to my house Wednesday at 5PM.
> 
> We shall see.


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## skaggs

I had my scheduled service appointment with TWC on Wednesday, August 28, 2013. The TWC tech arrived at 5PM and left at 8:30PM.

I showed him the plentiful black screens on random channels. Even as I was flipping up & down the lineup, the channels I could and could not receive would change.

He first tested the line at the pedestal in front of my house (underground cable) and found the signal to be OK. He then removed the input cable from the back of the tuning adapter and the signal level tested OK.

I asked if he had any cable cards with him and he did not, but he did have a new tuning adapter. He called a supervisor, who advised him to change the tuning adapter, which he did. Rebooted the TiVo...still black channels.

He called his supervisor, who said he would bring a few new cable cards to my house. Thirty minutes later there was a knock at the door and the new cable cards were here. Had to pair the CC to the TiVo, reboot both the TA and TiVo, and the channels were back.

I thought all was well until the very next night (Thursday, Aug 29), the random black screens appeared again. Did a hard reboot of the TiVo (pulled power cord), but many channels were still black.

Sat down last night with my wife to watch some TV before going to bed, HGTV, Animal Planet, Discovery and more were all black. Had to switch to the $9 per month TWC supplied cable box to watch the channels we intended to view.

I'll call TiVo again sometime and complain loudly, but politely. I had them started a case # last call (#130825-000664)

Haven't heard from TiVo_Kaitlyn in a few months. I think TiVo hopes we will all just replace the Premieres with Raomio's, but it seems as though Roamio's have the same black screen issues.

I am one very frustrated loyal TiVo owner.


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## Teeps

skaggs said:


> Sat down last night with my wife to watch some TV before going to bed, HGTV, Animal Planet, Discovery and more were all black. Had to switch to the $9 per month TWC supplied cable box to watch the channels we intended to view.
> 
> I'll call TiVo again sometime and complain loudly, but politely. I had them started a case # last call (#130825-000664)
> I am one very frustrated loyal TiVo owner.


Assuming you are attempting to watch live tv when this happens.
Try pressing "RECORD" on the remote.
Then go to TiVo Central> My Shows> then select the program that is recording and see if you get a picture.
The last couple of times my XL-4 had the black picture the above "work around(?)" got the picture back.


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## MeInDallas

I'm down to one Tivo at this point. The contract runs out on it in a few months, and if the new fall update doesnt fix anything for me, I think I might try to new 6 tuner DVR TWC has coming out. I'm just looking for reliability.


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## Teeps

MeInDallas said:


> I'm down to one Tivo at this point. The contract runs out on it in a few months, and if the new fall update doesnt fix anything for me, I think I might try to new 6 tuner DVR TWC has coming out. I'm just looking for reliability.


Good luck with that.
My mother has averaged 3 T/W DVRs per year.
All programs are lost with each new DVR.


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## MeInDallas

Teeps said:


> Good luck with that.
> My mother has averaged 3 T/W DVRs per year.
> All programs are lost with each new DVR.


I went thru 4 Elite/XL4's last year, so Tivo isnt doing much better 

I really dont care much for saving the programs that have been recorded, what I'm looking for is them to be recorded in the first place. What is so annoying is coming home to a DVR full of black screen recordings. I've always had great luck with the TWC Motorola DVR's. its just that they never had more than 2 tuners.


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## supasta

The dreaded V52 has returned to my Premiere 4. 
It tarted with an inability to watch Xfinity ON DEMAND programs. Then, a handful of channels started displaying an error message, code V53. I came home to a few new recordings, all blank and without programming. 
I rebooted.
The same channels then displayed a slightly different error message, code V52. 
I am currently (as I type this, on hold) on the phone with TiVo support and conferenced with Xfinity. 

EDIT: Same old story. Sending a technician Tuesday. I'll have to wake up in the morning to deal with this further (I work nights). The cable card has apparently lost the pairing. The values are correct, but the second paragraph on the Conditional Access screen is not displaying. TiVo said that translates to the card not being successfully paired. 

The Xfinity representative argued with the TiVo representative (who was very helpful). He tried to have her add or do something else, and she refused. She would only schedule a technician. 

This happens every few months. Quite frustrating. More so now because the channels that are missing are the local NBC, FOX, ABC (Read: FOOTBALL!, etc.)

On a hopefully positive note, this will be the first time that Comcast has sent a technician. Previous attempts have been successful, or I have been able to self-install a new card. Maybe the technician will be able to troubleshot other causes. Again, this happens every few months lately, so maybe there is an issue with signal, wiring, etc.


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## AMike

I have had issues with the V53 message appearing. I had tightened all of the cables, but the issues were still occurring. Last week I was having some similar issues on all of my devices. One of my channels, NBCSN, was showing up as "Not Authorized". Comcast sent a technician out and adjusted the signal strength (it was in the low 80s, now it is in the low 90s). Then on Saturday during one of the college football games on ESPN, I was receiving the same "Not Authorized" message on just one of my Tivo's. Rebooted the Tivo and it was working fine. On yesterday, the dreaded V53 message reappeared. 

This has been extremely frustrating. I am at the point of either switching to the X1 (which I know has its own level of frustration) or reverting back to the original Comcast DVR.


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## supasta

UPDATE: The Comcast tech just left my home, and all is working fine.

The cable card did finally pair later in the evening as evidenced by the conditional access screen. However, there was no change in the V52 error message or the missing channels. 

The Comcast tech just left my home. He took a long while going in and out looking at the wiring of the house. He then identified what seemed to be a bad amplifier in the system. He replaced it. It worked! The missing channels immediately returned. He also adjusted some levels and replaced a splitter he said would have prevented MOCA from working in the upstairs part of the house. He said this may also fix my intermittent On Demand issues and internet fluctuations. This remains to be seen, fingers crossed. 

All in all, a very successful visit. I am, for now, very pleased.


----------



## tim316

i found that rebooting the tivo twice in a roll helps get blank channels back....FML


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## skaggs

Someone posted this over on the Roamio black screen thread:



> The next time you are on the black screen or channel not available message, and you have more than 2 SDV channels tuned, please enter 9-1-1-CLEAR and 7-7-7-CLEAR and then Connect to the TiVo Service *TWICE*. Then email [email protected] with your TiVo Service Number and the date/time of the problem. This will provide Tivo the logs to see what is going on.


----------



## jmm7175

Thanks to everyone on this thread for all the troubleshooting advice. I have been having the same intermittent dropped channel problem (V52) for weeks. Over the last two weeks it had gotten quite frequent. After reading through this thread, I decided to check out all of the splitters in my home. BINGO! The second splitter I replaced immediately restored all of my channels, no reboot required. 

Thanks again!


----------



## Teeps

WTF?
Today I found my xl4 has no channels at all!
It's evidently been that way for a couple of days as nothing has recorded because of no signal.

I tried pressing the record button, the record process started.
But when I play back the recording nothing but a black screen.
TiVo is happily recording noting!

UPDATE: 
removing the cable card and reinstalling it fixed the problem.


----------



## rustymike12

I guess it's time to get in line.
I have a 4tuner with TA from TW Central Ohio.
Intermittent black channels, unauthorized, V52 etc. Had TW out and replaced drop wire, checked levels (F-OK), installed whole house amplifier and still having same issues.
Lord help us all, (after you're done with the big stuff).


----------



## timstack8969

I'm still having problems with "Picture/Screen" Blanking out for second or two. Also having trouble still when tuning to channels. Out of No where I will receive 'Channel Not Available" even on local channels. So before I call comcast is this all related to TIVO Software? I'm using a TIVO Premiere XL with Cisco cable card on Comcast of Garden State, NJ.


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## Solitaire

timstack8969 - I have been having this problem since June on 2 diffferent units, both are Premiere XL. I also have Comcast and Cisco cablecards. When I called Tivo, they said it was a Comcast issue and when I called Comcast they said it was a Tivo issue. So, it depends on who you are talking to to find out where the problems are originating from.
I have spent several hours with tech support from both companies, but still no solutions.
I hope you have better luck.


----------



## tomhorsley

Solitaire said:


> When I called Tivo, they said it was a Comcast issue and when I called Comcast they said it was a Tivo issue.


I believe they are both right. This happened maybe once or twice a month before I got the TiVo 20.3 software update. Back then they were already claiming that old firmware in the Scientific Atlanta/Cisco cable card had a known bug that cause this.

After 20.3 it happens all the time. I can't possibly channel surf through more than 10 or 12 channels before I start getting these errors.

So it may well be a cable card firmware issue, but something TiVo did in the 20.3 update made the problem several orders of magnitude worse.

Comcast claims they will be finishing their infrastructure upgrades (which includes cable card firmware) in October in my area (Delray Beach, FL). I am waiting to see if that actually fixes it.


----------



## Teeps

Solitaire said:


> When I called Tivo, they said it was a Comcast issue and when I called Comcast they said it was a Tivo issue.


Assuming we both have the same issue.
I call BS on tivo blaming comcast.
When my XL4 failed to record MotoGp last week and my S3 OLED(648250) Tivo did...

I ask how can that be blamed on the cable provider?


----------



## timstack8969

At this point I believe it is the TIVO software causing this because we (Comcast of Garden State, NJ) received our Cisco Cable card update back in May and I'm still having this problem. Aren't we about due for the TIVO Fall update? Waiting on this and then I'll call comcast.


----------



## tomhorsley

I sure wish they'd let me sign up to go back to the pre-20.3 software. I think that would be a perfectly valid and useful experiment to see if the problem does indeed go back to only happening every month or so, but TiVo doesn't seem interested in that experiment .


----------



## dkraft

timstack8969 said:


> At this point I believe it is the TIVO software causing this because we (Comcast of Garden State, NJ) received our Cisco Cable card update back in May and I'm still having this problem. Aren't we about due for the TIVO Fall update? Waiting on this and then I'll call comcast.


I've had the same problem on my Premier since 20.3. Roamio came out so I purchased one. Guess what? Same problem. Roamio has a couple problems. Most cable cards don't support 6 tuners. Software updates are needed by cable companies. Then there is the same problem as the Premier with the tuning issue. My Premier used to work fine until the software update. How can this be Comcast's problem.


----------



## slowbiscuit

Untrue - only a few cableCos and card firmwares are having trouble with 6 tuners, on Comcast from what I've seen (the largest cableCo) it's pretty much a non-issue.

Please don't exaggerate the issue to dissuade folks from getting a Roamio, it might have the same tuning issues for other reasons but most people will get the full 6 tuners to work with their cards.


----------



## dkraft

slowbiscuit said:


> Untrue - only a few cableCos and card firmwares are having trouble with 6 tuners, on Comcast from what I've seen (the largest cableCo) it's pretty much a non-issue.
> 
> Please don't exaggerate the issue to dissuade folks from getting a Roamio, it might have the same tuning issues for other reasons but most people will get the full 6 tuners to work with their cards.


This is a known issue. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=507973 TiVo has confirmed the problem and has also posted the details on the firmware needed on both the Motorola and Cisco/SA cable cards. I have Comcast and Comcast needs to update their firmware in my area. Comcast is currently rolling out an updated version that should be complete by October, we will see.

Here is a poll that shows 35% of those that voted are having tuning issues. The poll does not distinguish between the two issues but clearly shows the Roamio is having tuning issues. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=508774&highlight=Tuning+issue


----------



## Technogod

I'm also having issues with no signal, channel not authorized messages and drop outs. When signal is there it's between 70 and 90 on the signal meter depending on the channel. I have two TiVo Premieres and can have a missing channel on one. Go to the other TiVo and tune it to the same channel and it is also missing. I called Comcast tonight but I'm beginning to think it may not be their problem.

I remember seeing a screen that was telling me it was updating my cablecard. I think these problems my have started occurring after that update.


----------



## slowbiscuit

dkraft said:


> This is a known issue. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=507973 TiVo has confirmed the problem and has also posted the details on the firmware needed on both the Motorola and Cisco/SA cable cards. I have Comcast and Comcast needs to update their firmware in my area. Comcast is currently rolling out an updated version that should be complete by October, we will see.
> 
> Here is a poll that shows 35% of those that voted are having tuning issues. The poll does not distinguish between the two issues but clearly shows the Roamio is having tuning issues. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=508774&highlight=Tuning+issue


35% is not a majority, which is what you are claiming. Is it an issue? Sure, but don't exaggerate it by saying that 'most cable cards don't support 6 tuners' when you know that's not true.


----------



## dkraft

slowbiscuit said:


> 35% is not a majority, which is what you are claiming. Is it an issue? Sure, but don't exaggerate it by saying that 'most cable cards don't support 6 tuners' when you know that's not true.


You are correct. Bad choice of words on my part. I apologize for misleading others with my bad choice of words. I should have said "be sure to check your cable company's cable card software version. TiVo has posted compatible version information." Thank you for pointing out it was misleading, I was just to fired up about spending $399.00 to find out I had the same problem as my Premier along with not being able to use all 6 tuners. I stand corrected.


----------



## celtic pride

verizon fios added a few new HD channels on sept 11,(i think) and after that i lost 4 hd channels 571,591,596, and 597,so i havent been able to get these channels on both my 2 tivo xl2 premieres! here it is sept. 24 and still missing those channels. I spent 2 and a half hours on the phone today with tivo and verizon cable card support trying to get these channels to work to no avail,so tomorrow i'm going to the verizon store to get 2 new cable cards and see if that works.


----------



## Rose4uKY

I have time Warner and am in Louisville Kentucky. This just started happening to us yesterday especially his favorite channel Fox News it tells him that the channel is not available its not authorized contact your cable provider V58 and then today it was on a couple other channels. I googled the problem and it took me here but I didn't read all the post. I read so far and then just replied. But he's watching from a mini in one of the other bedroom. Do I need to reboot the Roamio or do something with the cable card?



tivosupport_kaitlyn said:


> Thank you to all of those who have been helping us investigate this odd and elusive issue. We are continuing to monitor this thread and collecting data from those of you who have reached out to us.
> 
> We realize how bad this experience can be and we want to do everything we can to help figure out what the problem is. If you believe you might be running into the issue described in this thread <refer to the description of the issue below> please reach out to us with a Private Message that contains your TSN and a description of your issue. We will get logging turned on and include it in our review process.
> 
> Currently, weve identified two separate potential issues reported on this thread and have begun investigating each issue individually. We are especially interested in hearing from the Time Warner customers in the Plano, TX area <zip code 75024>; as there seems to be a trend in this area and would like more data points to help with our investigation.
> 
> TiVo has been investigating the logs provided from those of you weve worked with and will be reaching out with some additional questions, suggestions and feedback.
> 
> Description of issue:
> - Loss of signal to all or some channels
> o Error: Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again. OR Channel not Authorized
> - Resolved by rebooting or resetting your cablecard
> 
> Please let us know if you have further questions.
> 
> Thank you,
> Kaitlyn
> TiVo Customer Support


----------



## JPALMETTO

I'm having the same issues in SC. 3 TIVO Premieres and intermittently losing various channels. Had been working great for a year or more but recently seeing this a lot. Usually Restarting TIVO gets channels back but not last night. Very discouraged!


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## rogmatic

Just to update, I had an insane number of issues with Twc in Dallas. But since moving to Comcast in PA I have not lost signal once (in two months). I vowed to never buy another Tivo but maybe I will give the Roamio a shot now.


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## mpaquette

I started losing my channels on my 2 Premieres this week. Haven't previously had this issue. I'm in South Carolina using TWC. Restarts didn't fix the most recent loss of most channels. Had to pull the power cord and re-run the guided setup do get them back. Not a fan of TWC. Will be dropping them and going back to OTA once college football season is over.


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## moyekj

This post from TiVoMargret may finally lead to a resolution for those with Cisco TAs having tuning problems:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9857937#post9857937


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## sldavis1952

I got the fall update, but still losing channels. My cable company is doing a slow migration(started in the spring) of analog channels to digital. I had the problem of losing channels before the migration started, but it seems to have exacerbated the problem. Anyway some channels were black with the v53 message displayed. Some channels were partially coming in on other channels with large blocks of pixilation. I did a restart and the premiere was okay. I have had the problem since I bought the premiere in Sept 2011. I think the problem is related to a change in the channel mapping and the premiere/cable card can't handle the change. I don't think Tivo will ever fix this problem.


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## tomhorsley

Yep, it doesn't seem to matter what N I have in 20.3.N, everything that starts with 20.3 makes the supposed cable card firmware bug 10000 times worse than it was before 20.3. There was no change at all when I got the priority update installed. I still can't channel surf more than about 6 channels before it starts getting no signal or not authorized errors.

The fact that I can always get flawless reception when I go into the cable card "test channels" menu really makes me wonder if there is actually a cable card bug at all.


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## jgorran

I have service with Comcast in Boynton Beach, FL which is adjacent to Delray Beach, FL and TomHorsley. Things have gotten much worse within the past month. I get the black screen with no audio for 1-2 seconds, the missing channels that come and go, the missing channels when using the channel up or down button for surfing. The biggest problem is having shows that were scheduled to be recorded somehow are not recorded. This includes having two shows on same channel one after the other and only the first one is recorded and any random show not being recorded even though all of them were previously listed on the to do list.

I had Comcast out yesterday and they replaced some cables and removed a splitter. Signal strength was fine. They re-initialized everything and lo and behold we're missing channels again today but of course, they came back. I believe that doing a hard re-boot by unplugging really screws up recordings for that day as well so I avoid doing that anymore.

I guess I have the recent TIVO software update which apparently made things worse. I had been planning on buying a 6 tuner Roamio but will hold off until this matter is cleared up. Obviously this Delray Beach - Boynton Beach FL area for Comcast is not working well with the Tivo software update. HELP!


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## Cheezmo

Just got back from out of town for a few days and my Premiere has lost all its channels (Verizon FIOS). I'm restarting it now. I never had this problem before, and have received latest priority update. Missed quite a few recordings, not happy.


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## jaredmwright

TiVo Elite XL here, had my first V53 error and loss of video on all recordings. Wife was not happy since she missed 30 minutes of the CMA show and our other recordings. I was trying to sell her on a Roamio, but now she is on the fence since stability is a concern. She also doesn't like having separate season passes for all of our units even though they are networked. You should be able to see all season passes and have a unified now playing list. 

Hopefully TiVo is aware of this issue and I hope it doesn't happen again. A reboot fixed out issue, but we lost most of our recordings and after reboot it did not resume the recordings, it definitely was in a bad state.


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## slowbiscuit

You need a WMC PC with extenders to get a single SP list and avoid the V53 errors, but you'll trade one set of issues for another IMO.


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## PBWNME

Sadly, I have a lot of experience with V53 errors. I have two Premiere units on TWC in Maine, four Premier units on FIOS in MA and two Premiere units on Comcast in Florida. In the past six years (until 20.3), I might have received one or two V53 errors total. After the 20.3 update, I have monthly V53 errors on the FIOS and TWC units and DAILY V53 errors on the Comcast units. Channel up/down or reboot clears the problem

Clearly, this is a Tivo issue and it is rather unfortunate that their Customer Service has fallen to the point that they don't seem to care at all. I have nine Tivo units and every time I call customer service, it's a bad experience. I have been a Tivo user since 2000 and it may be time to dump them for the crappy cable boxes; at least they're reliable.

Perhaps, if they ever fix this issue, they then could tackle their website latency issue and choose a different company to host their website. Recording programs is pretty well designed, but the speed is absolutely painful. Makes the Obamacare site seem efficient


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## slowbiscuit

Crappy cable DVRs are reliable? You live in a different universe than the one Comcast inhabits here my friend. Tivo is so much better than the junk they pawn off it's not funny, even with the rare tuning issues I've seen.


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## PBWNME

slowbiscuit said:


> Crappy cable DVRs are reliable? You live in a different universe than the one Comcast inhabits here my friend. Tivo is so much better than the junk they pawn off it's not funny, even with the rare tuning issues I've seen.


Can't be worse than loosing a dozen channels daily and missing all your recordings


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## cydeweyz

Sent my Premiere to WeaKnees to be repaired. TiVo Support gave me every indication that it was my tuner that had died. WeaKnees said they could find no hardware problem! Spend money I didn't need to. I still get the V52 error. Thanks TiVo.


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## jgorran

Nothing can be worse than the state of my TIVO service in South Florida. And it is really getting worse as I lost not only all my network HD channels yesterday, but all the regular network channels during the evening local and national news reports. I was on the phone for the better part of an hour with a rep from Tivo who had me check all the cable card and signal strength settings and we found that EVERYTHING was fine. They tried to offer me a new Tivo Premier XL in place of my current one under the assumption that perhaps the 20.3N software does not work well with older (3 years old) Premier XL boxes. I'd like to buy a Roamio but I believe they are having similar problems so it may NOT be the age of the box. This is really lousy!!!!


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## PBWNME

jgorran said:


> Nothing can be worse than the state of my TIVO service in South Florida. And it is really getting worse as I lost not only all my network HD channels yesterday, but all the regular network channels during the evening local and national news reports. I was on the phone for the better part of an hour with a rep from Tivo who had me check all the cable card and signal strength settings and we found that EVERYTHING was fine. They tried to offer me a new Tivo Premier XL in place of my current one under the assumption that perhaps the 20.3N software does not work well with older (3 years old) Premier XL boxes. I'd like to buy a Roamio but I believe they are having similar problems so it may NOT be the age of the box. This is really lousy!!!!


It's not the age of the box, it's 20.3. My Premiere units are less than 6 mos old. Same issue affects Roamio. Comcast in South Florida seems to have the most conflicts with 20.3


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## gigaguy

I sometimes have this annoying channel not avail. tuning problem on some channels. I've had my used Premiere for 2-3 months to test Tivo out. This tuning issue easily keeps me from investing more for a Roamio or paying lifetime...yet. Also the issue of TWC copy protection (everything), funky tuning adapters, and being a Mac user are all negatives per using TiVo.

but the Premiere box works pretty well. even just added a 1TB expander and was pretty troublefree to set up, (had to restart the Tivo and the darn tuning adapter) but the expander has worked fine and was only $50.


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## XIBM

My XL4 has failed about once a week this year until Tivo Margret took my #s as indicated earlier in this thread. They must of scarred it for it worked only failing once or twice in three or four months. However, in the last two weeks I have had two failures so I seem to be back to square one - one of the failures was right at midnight so Charter may have changed something. I have not signed up for the early software. Has anyone figured how to make it reboot each evening so you only loose one day's recording without a timer on the power cord? I hate to remove power that way and would like to use the soft reboot under help.


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## XIBM

My XL4 has been running for a couple of weeks but yesterday and again today my NFL game was playing pixelated and all channels in live TV were dead. It did the same thing yesterday and is always fixed with a soft reboot.


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## edesmond

I purchased a tivo premiere about 6 months ago so I could use the comcast on demand features. I have gone though at least 5 cable cards. The cards pair and work fine for a while, then I start to slowly lose HD channels. It starts randomly, a few at a time, then suddenly the whole card is shot. This seems to start AFTER I use on demand. Every time I use the OD feature the channels start disappearing. I read the "losing all channels" thread & restarted my tivo - it worked & the channels have been restored today. Interestingly, I tried this about 2 months ago and it did not restore my channels and I ended up having to change cable cards.

TSN: 750-001-904D-30BA
Error: "Problem with the signal on this channel. Trying again. (V53)"
Comcast Xfinity


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## kerreej

This is horrible. I'm having the same issues most of you are having. I have to completly restart my TIVO in order for my channels to work. Fustrated, I canceled my TIVO service and then went with the Oceanic TWC cable DVR. OMG, OMG, OMG!! The navigation and layout is pre-historic, I can't believe how horrible it is to use. On top of that, it takes at least 5 seconds for the channels to change. What am I to do?!! Please help. Someone! I love my TIVO HD, but can use it!


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## NoVa

Same issue here. On random occasions 1 or more channels will go totally blank with only the V53 message on screen as being shown.

Odd this started happening with the winter update.


----------



## dcostinett

I've started getting this same problem almost every time I sit down to watch TV now:
Error: "Problem with the signal on this channel. Trying again. (V53)"
Sometimes the message will report that I'm not authorized for that station, but after rebooting the TiVo it will work for a short time, then start failing again sometimes after a few minutes, sometimes after just changing channels a couple times, sometimes I won't see the problem for the rest of the evening. It always starts working for a short time after a reboot though.

I had a Series 3 for 4+ years and never had a problem. I upgraded to an XL4 and didn't have any trouble for a year, but then started seeing this issue intermittently. TiVo swapped out my XL4 for an Elite (an older version of the same model) and I subsequently got the cable card replaced by Frontier FIOS but still have the same problem.

When the problem seemed to follow the cable card after replacing the TiVo unit, I thought replacing the card would resolve the issue. I find now though that we get the same problem on multiple TiVos in the house -- initially I didn't realize we were having the problem on multiple TiVos, but sure enough it seems to happen on all 3 different units now.

The SNR reading on all the TiVos reads 37dB, sometimes 38 or infrequently as high as 39, but usually 37.

TiVo seems to advise they need between 29 & 35, but I never had trouble with the Serires 3 for around 4 years with the same cable service/signal. Based on the symptoms and history of the problems, it seems to me it must be a software update to the TiVo that started the problems...


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## teacherspet

I keep losing channels everyday kind of stuck on what to do look at all the complains it's been going on for along time


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## NoVa

teacherspet said:


> I keep losing channels everyday kind of stuck on what to do look at all the complains it's been going on for along time


Any new news from anyone on this issue?

I have one channel NBCSports that the Premiere seem to not be able to keep a straight signal on.

so it will either show a black screen with the V53 message or it will be heavily pixelated & unwatchable.

Has any1 tried to get a new cable card?


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## XIBM

I still loose all channels about once a week, soft reboot always fixes it. Usually I notice the playback of a recording starts pixelating, I check the live TV tuners and they are all black with a v53 or not authorized.


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## rjbur

Add me to the list.

First I went to the menu and did the reboot, no help same error.

I called Comcast yesterday and they tried everything the phone person could do and even had me:

1) Pull the Cable Card out for 90 seconds and try again

2) Tried this and unplugging the unit.

3) Unplugged unit for more than 5 minuets

Still same error messages.

I went to the page where I could see each channels power / signal level and switch through working channels and non working and they were all in the 90 + range for both working and not.

My Cable Model is very close to my TIVO unit and thus the main feed from Comcast.

I have not yet tried rerunning the "Setup Wizard" for fear it will wipe out all my recordings. 

Comcast seems to think I may have a bad Cable Card. Personally I don't think the people on the Chat or Phone know anything about how to deal with TIVO units.

When I first installed my TIVO unit I spent hours and days on the phone with various Comcast folks and even TIVO support and it wasn't until Comcast sent out a service person that I was VERY luck that it was the one that had to deal with a TIVO install before. He knew all of the strange request to make to change the Comcast network configuration so my Cable Card would actually come alive. 

I have an appointment on Wed. Morning with another service person and I hope he or she know TIVO... I'm already on my second Cable Card and they think I now need a third??? Wish they would just leave a box full...

What is funny, at the higher channels where my wife wanted to watch Hallmark, 793 and 794 show this error, but 791 and 795 work fine. They all show the same high strong signal levels as well???

I am now going to sit down and go through ALL the channels to see which ones are reporting the error...

Wow that takes a long time... Switch one channel at a time and noted those that reported the V53 error: 

2, 4, 5, 7,8, 9, 12, 13, 14, 17, 19, 20, 21, 24, 25, 31, 32, 103, 104, 111, 190, 191, 192, 194, 197, 200, 433, 450, 621, 636, 676, 706, 726, 727, 733, 734, 736, 738, 739, 745, 746, 747, 749, 750, 753, 755, 756, 759, 761, 762, 763, 764, 766, 768, 769, 771, 772, 781, 782, 787, 793, 794, 796, 797, 798, 811, 812, 816, 875, 877, 897


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## Teeps

Does comcast use a tuning adapter?
If so: 

AT the tuning adapter; disconnect the usb cable and power cord.
Wait 30 seconds, then reconnect the power cord.
When the indicator light, on the front of the t/a stops blinking
Connect the USB cable.
Tivo should show a message stating a tuning adapter has been detected.
choose continue, then check channels.

Note:
the above instructions work for time warner with cisco adapters.


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## jrtroo

Comcast does not use SDV. I do recommend that rjbur contact the cablecard hotline, and not just the normal Comcast CSRs. They are much better equipped to handle cablecard issues.


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## dkenglish7

My XL4 on Comcast (no tuning adapter) has never had V53 errors before - but a few hours after it installed the 20.4.1 update, it abruptly went to black screen, V53 searching for signal errors on all channels. 

Diagnostics showed signal strength in the low 90s for all channels and zero RSS errors. My Tivo S3 kept working normally, so no Comcast failure, just a Premiere XL4 failure. A soft reboot brought all the channels back, for now.


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## mcf57

I'm having similar issues on a lifetime 2-tuner Premiere. Will check the version number I am on, but am at my wits end to trying to get this fixed. My ONLY possible solution at this point is to pair another M-card I still have from a recently sold S3 unit. 

Otherwise, I may just consider selling the unit & taking those funds to buy a lifetime Mini since my 4-tuner premiere (& another mini I have connected to it) is working great.


----------



## ciper

I'm mad. I've been a Tivo user since 1999. Too many lifetime units to count. Just recently my girlfriend spent about a thousand dollars on a six tuner roamio and larger drive. I have numerous recordings that have been missed because of this problem. 

I'm am very close to switching back to my previous Tivo and selling this piece of ****.


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## CoxInPHX

ciper said:


> I'm mad. I've been a Tivo user since 1999. Too many lifetime units to count. Just recently my girlfriend spent about a thousand dollars on a six tuner roamio and larger drive. I have numerous recordings that have been missed because of this problem.
> 
> I'm am very close to switching back to my previous Tivo and selling this piece of ****.


I have had no issues with my Roamio Pro, no missed recordings. Rock solid. This is my second unit though, the first one must have had a faulty tuner chip, or signal amp, where recordings were missed and severe macroblocking was occurring upon a restart, and often for 30 seconds after a channel change. The Replacement unit is fine.

Who is your Provider?
What is your CableCARD firmware?
Do you use a Tuning Adapter?
Signal Levels?


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## JWhites

dkenglish7 said:


> My XL4 on Comcast (no tuning adapter) has never had V53 errors before - but a few hours after it installed the 20.4.1 update, it abruptly went to black screen, V53 searching for signal errors on all channels.
> 
> Diagnostics showed signal strength in the low 90s for all channels and zero RSS errors. My Tivo S3 kept working normally, so no Comcast failure, just a Premiere XL4 failure. A soft reboot brought all the channels back, for now.


There's been some work on getting a newer firmware version on the cablecard to see if that solves the problem. Hopefully it does.


----------



## SamuriHL

I've been having this problem on my Elite for the past couple months. It's starting to get really old. 9 laps to go in the Indy 500 and it just suddenly stops working with a v53 error??? Come on. Pulling the card sometimes resets it. It didn't in this case so I'm rebooting the tivo. I'm on Comcast. This really needs to get fixed.


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## Cap'n Preshoot

Okay, counting mine, we now have 590 posts on this topic. So the obvious question, is anyone at TIVO looking at it? This problem has only recently begun, so obviously something has changed and it's clear that it's affecting many-many TIVO owners. Can we please get this resolved?


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## CrispyCritter

Cap'n Preshoot said:


> Okay, counting mine, we now have 590 posts on this topic. So the obvious question, is anyone at TIVO looking at it? This problem has only recently begun, so obviously something has changed and it's clear that it's affecting many-many TIVO owners. Can we please get this resolved?


"Recently begun"? What are you talking about? The first post of this thread was over 2 1/2 years ago!

It's clear there are multiple causes, and some of them have been fixed by TiVo (and others by the cable companies, and others have had work-arounds that help issued by TiVo) and some have not.


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