# Audio Dropouts 6.3d



## DAS37 (Apr 5, 2004)

For the past couple weeks now, I am experiencing audio dropouts that had never happened before and it seems to coincide roughly with when my unit got 6.3d. Not sure if these are similar to what others have talked about but let me describe the symptoms. Audio will disappear for about 20-30 seconds but if you rewind either the live tuner or the recording, the audio is there. It's just a pain having to pause every time it happens, wait 30 seconds then start watching again. It happens more with HD material (every 5-10 minutes) than with SD stuff (every hour or so). Reboots don't do anything and neither did a Clear and Delete. Anyone else experienced this as I have described?


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## bullitt (Feb 13, 2002)

I've been experiencing exact same thing but I've not tried rewinding. My video also seems to freeze and yes it seems to be only with HD material and 6.3d


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## 5 ACES (May 23, 2004)

Me too and it seems to be the west coast feeds. I get the HD national feeds from the west coast and all of the national feeds from the east and west coast on the SD channels. Here lately, the HD west coast feeds have been messed up with audio and video. The problem you describe is happening to me as well and it does seem to be after the 6.3d update, but it did happen to me once before the update happened. I bet something is wrong with either Directv or the networks, because this seems to be happening all of a sudden and not just one or two people are being affected, but a larger group seems to be in the same boat that we are.


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## stiffi (Jun 14, 2006)

Experiencing the same problems. Though, it's more like 7-8 seconds of dropouts. I also think it's only live. I had major problems over the weekend watching the Kentucky Derby live. I watched 24 last night Tivo'd, and noticed no problems at all.

On the plus side, my OTA strength has been AWESOME since the upgrade. It' hard to say 6.3d is the reason because in the East the vegetation has changed drastically over the last 2 weeks too. Either way, I'm not complaining.


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## Joe Jensen (Jul 7, 2003)

DAS37 said:


> For the past couple weeks now, I am experiencing audio dropouts that had never happened before and it seems to coincide roughly with when my unit got 6.3d. Not sure if these are similar to what others have talked about but let me describe the symptoms. Audio will disappear for about 20-30 seconds but if you rewind either the live tuner or the recording, the audio is there. It's just a pain having to pause every time it happens, wait 30 seconds then start watching again. It happens more with HD material (every 5-10 minutes) than with SD stuff (every hour or so). Reboots don't do anything and neither did a Clear and Delete. Anyone else experienced this as I have described?


I am more and more convinced that these audio dropouts are due to power supply marginality. I had audio dropouts and blamed them on 6.3 something. Once I replaced the Powersupply board (like $50), all the audio dropouts and reboots stopped.


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## DAS37 (Apr 5, 2004)

Intriguing theory. Did some searching and found other similar posts to point me in the right direction on getting a new one. I may have to do that. Thank you.


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## iandrysdale (Jan 10, 2004)

Same problem. OTA seems the worst, especially Idol and CBS.

I hesitate to blame the power supply- no issues until version 6.3D.

Is three a D* or Tivo rep reading this who could investigate?


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## DAS37 (Apr 5, 2004)

Think I will replace the power supply and hard drive. Unit is 3 years old now.


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## DAS37 (Apr 5, 2004)

Joe Jensen, you are a genius. Put a new power supply in today and all problems immediately were gone. Thanks a million.


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## gages97 (Mar 25, 2004)

My unit rebooted about 3 days ago and now getting dropouts every 5-7 minutes for 20-30 seconds. Any ideas?

Steve


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## DAS37 (Apr 5, 2004)

That's pretty much the same as I experienced. New power supply fixed it immediately.


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## gages97 (Mar 25, 2004)

Does not seem right, only happens for me on HD, all SD is fine. Never had this before 6.3d.


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## Chuck_IV (Jan 1, 2002)

Yep, was having the same issue with my HR10-250, except my audio drops would only last a couple seconds, not 20-30 seconds. I could also rewind and the audio would be there. This started happening, like everyone else, around the time 6.3d hit. This happens to be on SD, as well as HD.


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## DAS37 (Apr 5, 2004)

My audio dropouts started out lasting only a few seconds in duration and happened only on the HD material. After a few weeks, they became longer, more frequent and occurred on all channels. I don't know why it started or how it became worse over time. I do know that a new power supply fixed everything instantly and everything has been rock solid in the 2 months since.


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## Joe Jensen (Jul 7, 2003)

DAS37 said:


> Joe Jensen, you are a genius. Put a new power supply in today and all problems immediately were gone. Thanks a million.


I just saw your comment, thanks. Can't claim to be a genius,  just someone who spent too much time with google and on this forum...joe


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## DAS37 (Apr 5, 2004)

Well, you're definitely on to something with this power supply issue.


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## Greencat (Jan 21, 2004)

DAS37 said:


> Well, you're definitely on to something with this power supply issue.


Where did you buy the powersupply?


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## gages97 (Mar 25, 2004)

i just ordered mine form weaknees


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## chilidip_tivo (Feb 17, 2003)

I posted in another thread about my audio drop outs. I am pleased to report that after changing out the power supply, it's been two days without a single drop.

Don't forget to get some compressed air to clean it out while you replace the power supply.  

Thanks to all who suggested this problem might be related to power.

Randy


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## JohnDG (Oct 28, 2004)

chilidip_tivo said:


> I posted in another thread about my audio drop outs. I am pleased to report that after changing out the power supply, it's been two days without a single drop.
> 
> Don't forget to get some compressed air to clean it out while you replace the power supply.
> 
> ...


Anybody who:
1) Was getting audio drop outs;
2) Is running on a UPS;
3) Replaced the power supply and fixed the problem?

That is, is an UPS also an option to fix the problem?

jdg


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## csuich (Jun 5, 2002)

I too am having frequent audio drop-outs (<few seconds) on HD channels. I have a HR10-250. I notice on my Pioneer receiver the Digital Dolby light going on and off when the audio drops. If I change the setup in the DTiVo to not output Digital Dolby, then the audio is tolerable, but of course I am not listening in DD.

I find the power supply idea questionable. Is there some power feed direct to DD section of circuitry? 

I haven't opened my box in a couple years. There could be a fair amount of dust on it. I will clean it out and see if it helps.


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## Chuck_IV (Jan 1, 2002)

JohnDG said:


> Anybody who:
> 1) Was getting audio drop outs;
> 2) Is running on a UPS;
> 3) Replaced the power supply and fixed the problem?
> ...


I use a UPS and have the dropouts. I haven't changed the power supply tho and may not, since my HR10-250, is a secondary box, and being moved to the bedroom, since I now have an HR20.


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## Greencat (Jan 21, 2004)

My Audio problems are getting worse. I'm on the fence about trying the power supply. I don't want to pay for this when I will need to get an HR20 in a month.

Do the HR 20s pick up local channels?


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## csuich (Jun 5, 2002)

csuich said:


> I too am having frequent audio drop-outs (<few seconds) on HD channels. I have a HR10-250. I notice on my Pioneer receiver the Digital Dolby light going on and off when the audio drops. If I change the setup in the DTiVo to not output Digital Dolby, then the audio is tolerable, but of course I am not listening in DD.
> 
> I find the power supply idea questionable. Is there some power feed direct to DD section of circuitry?
> 
> I haven't opened my box in a couple years. There could be a fair amount of dust on it. I will clean it out and see if it helps.


Blowing the dust out of my unit had no effect.

I since tried changing audio outputs. I switched to the L/R audio out and they worked fine, but the optical out still has problems. I can believe that the power supply has a different voltage or output to drive the optical circuitry.

With that in mind, I think I will also try buying a new power supply.


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## coachO (Nov 26, 2004)

I have the same symptons as Csuich and I am running 3.5. The problem has gotten worse and now occassionally I even get some video studdering. I want to try a clear and delete except my unit is zipped and I am not sure what will happen.

Please let us know if the power supply continues to fix the problem.


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## coachO (Nov 26, 2004)

What is the latest word on the power supply? Should I buy one?


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## csuich (Jun 5, 2002)

Alright!!! I got my power supply today and swapped it out.
Believe it or not my audio out the optical port is fixed! :up: 

Looking at the bottom of the power supply board I would guess I see the problem. I would have to guess that circuit is providing power to the optical drivers.
If your audio is dropping out, I would tell you to order a new power supply.


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## DAS37 (Apr 5, 2004)

That actually makes total sense. At one point while I was waiting for the new power supply to arrive, I had the sound running through my DVD recorder on the analog outputs because I noticed it was only happening on the digital output. Thus, if anyone has audio dropouts, check to see if it works on the analog audio outputs and if it does, check the power supply board. Chances are, it's gonna look like this and need replacing.


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## gages97 (Mar 25, 2004)

Replaced my PS today and have been good for 60+ minutes.

I did not observe any obvious damage to the bottom of my old PS.

Thank you DAS37!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## SevronD (May 8, 2004)

One thing that can happen in power-supply circuitry is that the solder joints heat up and reflow, over time, because of the internal heat. When this happens, the component pins can become somewhat disconnected (because the solder connecting them flows in a certain way), or at least have additional resistance in the high-current paths, which then causes the down-stream circuitry to then not work properly. Solder is mostly lead, and lead is pretty soft stuff and becomes liquid with heat.

I own a few pinball machines and have seen similar pictures on their power supply boards that I've repaired.

Here, it looks like CSUICH has captured a picture of an ST Micro 3843B HIGH PERFORMANCE CURRENT MODE PWM CONTROLLER. You can sort of see the "ST" logo under the flakey solder resin residue, so I think this is the part.

The flakes and bubbly looking portions of the circuit board indicate that a good amount of heat was present in on these components in the recent past. Perhaps on the *other* side of the board there is a device that gets hot, I cannot tell. I don't think the 3843B will draw much current itself; it's meant to turn on and off other components that will draw a lot of current.

Anyway, the other issue besides the solder joints on the 3843B perhaps being loose is the big bubbly dot on the left, near the "R11" text on the board. You can tell by the shear size of this thing, and the large width of the light-green trace underneath, that this is supposed to carry a lot of current, which equates to heat, which can cause solder to flow. This is probably part of the problem also.

These bubbly solder joints have probably reflowed poorly and need to be touched up.

If you want to hazard a repair yourself, BE REALLY CAREFUL WITH POWER SUPPLY CIRCUITS!!!! The capacitors can hold *lots* of voltage/current and can provide a nasty zap if you touch them. Discharge them before poking around.

Then, if you have the will, and if you have a clean fine-tip soldering iron handy and some cleaning alcohol, and q-tip swabs, and a bit of fine-pitch solder, you can clean off the existing flakes and bubbles and "touch-up" the solder joints that have reflowed in the picture. This should help the connectivity of the circuitry.

Hope this helps, and remember to keep your units cool!!


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## coachO (Nov 26, 2004)

I did buy a new power supply and it fixed the problem. I could not find a bad soder but did not look too hard. Thanks all.


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## Joe Jensen (Jul 7, 2003)

SevronD said:


> One thing that can happen in power-supply circuitry is that the solder joints heat up and reflow, over time, because of the internal heat. When this happens, the component pins can become somewhat disconnected (because the solder connecting them flows in a certain way), or at least have additional resistance in the high-current paths, which then causes the down-stream circuitry to then not work properly. Solder is mostly lead, and lead is pretty soft stuff and becomes liquid with heat.
> 
> I own a few pinball machines and have seen similar pictures on their power supply boards that I've repaired.
> 
> ...


While I have not witnessed this before, I'm an Electrical Engineer, and I am familar with the solder process. Solder melts around 440 degrees F. I doubt the power supply boards get this hot in many Tivos. I suspect that it's more likely a marginal capacitor that fails over time.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

SevronD said:


> One thing that can happen in power-supply circuitry is that the solder joints heat up and reflow, over time, because of the internal heat. When this happens, the component pins can become somewhat disconnected (because the solder connecting them flows in a certain way), or at least have additional resistance in the high-current paths, which then causes the down-stream circuitry to then not work properly. Solder is mostly lead, and lead is pretty soft stuff and becomes liquid with heat...remember to keep your units cool!!


While the sum-up advice is good advice indeed, your explanation might be pure fiction. Back when I was in school (shortly after the earth's crust cooled), lead melted only above 600 degrees Fahrenheit, and AFAIK the laws of physics have not since been repealed. Solids also did not melt or become plastic until the melting point was reached or exceeded, which also has not changed since the big bang.

My Tivos run at about 41 degrees Centigrade, according to the internal thermometer. While certain places inside the chassis can easily reach 135 degrees F or more (its 117 degrees inside my laptop as I write this) most components are rated to accept that heat level. If you have issues inside your Tivo that are causing lead solder to actually melt, you may have problems larger than a reboot every once in a while. If I were you I'd keep the local FD on speed-dial.

"Additional resistance in the high-current paths" is a text-book description of a cold solder joint. That resistance doesn't increase over time unless something, which is usually a failed component, causes enough heat to "reflow" the solder, which is fairly impossible without fireworks of some sort. IOW, the cold solder joint exists and is stable from day one.

Only after a component fails is when it is usually discovered, because that's when it gets looked for. Nothing changes in the interim regarding the resistance of the connection, and its usually not a cold solder joint that causes the component failure in the first place, although increased heat can only aggravate the situation. Likewise, a failed component doesn't cause a cold solder joint. Lousy original or repair-job soldering is what creates cold solder joints, whether from an iron or from a wave solder pot.

A PS either fails catastrophically (fried regulator or diode, for instance) or it fails gradually. That second sort of failure is usually due to capacitors drying out. Most caps are rated at 85 degrees C, but many are rated at 105, meaning they will handle more heat. That number doesn't mean you can go that high and it fails if you go over, but that it tolerates heat better if higher. But any heat will cause caps to dry out, which is why less is better, as less heat means slower drying.

Once the caps dry out, two things happen. Output DC voltages drift out of spec, and AC ripple becomes impressed on the voltage. Neither are good, but both are inevitable, and lower heat protects from that happening longer, hopefully for the life of the device.

I recommend highly a fan bracket and 2nd fan from Weaknees, even if you don't add a second drive, which can reduce the ambient temp 15 degrees C or more, extending the life of both the drives and the PS. That's cheap insurance for nine bucks. Of course if you wait until the HR10 is 3 years old, that ship has sailed.


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## mcannon0 (Dec 28, 2006)

Hi all. I've noticed this in 6.3e too. I've also noticed the dropouts only happens when using HDMI output set on either 720p or 1080i. The optical audio is fine when using HDMI 480i or 480p output, or component outputs. Then again, what's the point of using 480--might as well get a non-HD.

Has anyone else noticed this too?

Does DirecTV even bother to test these software updates anymore?


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