# 2022 Academy Awards telecast (spoilers obviously)



## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

A thread for anyone watching…


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

The open with Schumer, Sykes, and Hall was better than I expected. And Schumer’s monologue was funny. Good start I thought. “I’ve watched The Power of the Dog three times, and I’m almost halfway through!” Ouch!


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Deserved win and a lovely speech by Ariana DeBose. That’s great.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Oof, Regina Hall’s Covid test bit started off amusing but went way too long. And the subsequent pat-down of Brolin and Momoa was painful. I felt sorry for her and them.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Dune cleaning up in the technical categories so far.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

The “seamless” editing of the categories they dumped to the pre-show into the live broadcast is hardly seamless. This was a bad idea. So we could make room for things like three minutes of terrible banter from Tony Hawk and Shaun White? Why were they invited? Yuck.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Lovely to see Stephanie Beatriz but it would have been a gas to see her come out as Rosa Diaz. (Not in the cards obviously.)

I could do without the live songs but this one from Encanto is nice.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

LOL that the fan-voted “biggest stand-up and cheer moment” is a dumb scene featuring the worst character in a movie most people didn’t like.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Yes, Troy Kotsur! He was the favorite and I’m glad it played out. Great moment and a heartfelt speech.

Yuh-Jung Youn’s introduction of the category was adorable and the two of them walking off arm-in-arm was very sweet.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Jennifer Garner will always be my crush. Such a lovely person in all respects.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Dignified, classy speech by Branagh for screenplay and a lovely emotional one by Sian Heder for adapted screenplay for CODA. Two more awards it’s easy to approve of.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

This Chris Rock bit isn’t landing at all.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

That seemed... unscripted. Will Smith was decidedly unhappy with Chris Rock's quip... I highly doubt they would have muted the audio if it were fake, and Chris looked a bit thrown off after that.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Questlove has an Oscar! I’m going to have to watch Summer of Soul. Moving speech by Questlove. Most of the broadcast leaves something to be desired, but the winners are bringing it on the speeches tonight.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

LoadStar said:


> That seemed... unscripted. Will Smith was decidedly unhappy with Chris Rock's quip... I highly doubt they would have muted the audio if it were fake, and Chris looked a bit thrown off after that.


Yeah, I was trying to decide. If it was scripted, it was really awkward, and if it was unscripted… WTF?


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Diddy introducing The Godfather? What are they doing?


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> That seemed... unscripted. Will Smith was decidedly unhappy with Chris Rock's quip... I highly doubt they would have muted the audio if it were fake, and Chris looked a bit thrown off after that.


That definitely looked real. That was a real hit (punch wasn’t pulled). then the audio cut out but you could clearly see Will Smith said something about “my wife” and then about 15 seconds of feed got dumped.

I guess we’ll see if there are assault charges.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

morac said:


> That definitely looked real. That was a real hit (punch wasn’t pulled). then the audio cut out but you could clearly see Will Smith said something about “my wife” and then about 15 seconds of feed got dumped.
> 
> I guess we’ll see if there are assault charges.


Definitely real. Here's what US viewers DIDN'T see, thanks to the dump button: (adult language)
(edit: gonna remove that just to be on the safe side...)


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

That was a nice moment with Coppola, DeNiro, and Pacino. Palpable respect from the audience there. This broadcast shouldn’t be as hard as they make it. Just do more stuff like that.

Pacino looking frailer than I might have guessed.


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## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

There is a Japanese clip floating around that is unedited. Pretty uncomfortable and I don’t think that Chris Rock is a good enough actor to pull it off—he looked gobsmacked.

I’d link the clip, but there’s a fair amount of profanity in it.

eta: I guess Loadstar is both faster and more fearless than I am.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

morac said:


> That definitely looked real. That was a real hit (punch wasn’t pulled). then the audio cut out but you could clearly see Will Smith said something about “my wife” and then about 15 seconds of feed got dumped.
> 
> I guess we’ll see if there are assault charges.


Yep it was real. Australia showed the uncensored footage where Will cursed out Chris for like 20 seconds. 

edit: removed link as it autoplays. here’s the link, put it together. https://twitt er.com/davidmackau/status/1508270575902687232?s=21&t=uysBiXOJKU_N-ibtZaR9FQ

I don’t know what is wrong with Smith as it wasn’t even a mean joke.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Holy smokes on the Will Smith clip. Going to be quite something if he wins Best Actor, as expected.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

morac said:


> I don’t know what is wrong with Smith as it wasn’t even a mean joke.


As I've learned, apparently Jada's loss of her hair is due to an autoimmune condition, and Will is likely very sensitive to that.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

morac said:


> I don’t know what is wrong with Smith as it wasn’t even a mean joke.


It was probably unnecessary but hardly the most cutting thing that’s been said tonight. And to react that way? Wow.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

LoadStar said:


> As I've learned, apparently Jada's loss of her hair is due to an autoimmune condition, and Will is likely very sensitive to that.


Didn’t know that. So, it was definitely unnecessary.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Quite a pivot to the In Memorium segment.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> As I've learned, apparently Jada's loss of her hair is due to an autoimmune condition, and Will is likely very sensitive to that.


I didn’t know that. That’s still no reason to go up on stage and cold cock Chris though.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

I’ve been anxious since it happened and it wasn’t even me!


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Has Dune won every category that was dumped to pre-show?


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Variety has fast writers.









Will Smith Smacks Chris Rock on Oscar Stage After Jada Pinkett Smith Joke


Chris Rock and Will Smith had an altercation during the 2022 Oscar telecast. Rock appeared on stage to present the Oscar for documentary feature and made a joke about Jada Pinkett Smith being in &#…




variety.com


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

No EGOT for Lin-Manuel tonight.


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## connie_w (Jan 10, 2015)

LoadStar said:


> As I've learned, apparently Jada's loss of her hair is due to an autoimmune condition, and Will is likely very sensitive to that.


You could tell by the look on her face, when Chris Rock made the comment, Jada was visibly hurt and offended. Pretty sure I saw her mouth say "wow" as she was frowning.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

cmontyburns said:


> No EGOT for Lin-Manuel tonight.


It'll happen eventually, I'm sure, but not yet.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

cmontyburns said:


> Quite a pivot to the In Memorium segment.


That just seemed wildly inappropriate. In Memorium is supposed to be a somber moment to remember people who’ve died and you have people dancing and singing into foreground. Every year they make it more about the person singing than those that died, but this year was just disrespectful.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

I liked Costner’s intro to Best Director, and the audience seemed rapt. And then Campion gets up there and says early, “Thank you Kevin, that was very dramatic.” Funny.

Deserved award for the well-respected Campion.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Not like I expected Will Smith to vanish, but there he was up front giving a standing-o to Campion. And here comes best lead actor.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

If they hadn’t made the briefcase light up, I was out.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Will Smith wins as expected. I was afraid of this being a car crash, but this is quite a moment.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

NSFW… Language…


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Schumer is good at this. Funny bit there. “Did I miss anything?”


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I thought they cut out the live technical awards to make the show shorter. It’s still running over 30 minutes over.


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

apparently Chris Rock and the Smiths have some history back at the 2016 Oscars he joked that Jada boycotting the Oscars was like Rock boycotting Rihanna panties: he wasn't invited.


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## ThatOne (Oct 21, 2008)

LoadStar said:


> As I've learned, apparently Jada's loss of her hair is due to an autoimmune condition, and Will is likely very sensitive to that.


We don’t know if Rock knew that.. also Will initially laughed. I’m done with him, especially with his ““I want to be a vessel for love”” speech. Damned hypocrite


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Nice win for the well-liked Chastain, but I may have to brush up on my Tammy Faye Bakker. Chastain is inspired by her?


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

cmontyburns said:


> Nice win for the well-liked Chastain, but I may have to brush up on my Tammy Faye Bakker. Chastain is inspired by her?


it was first a documentary The Eyes of Tammy Faye, then a biopic based on it where Chastain played Tammy.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

cmontyburns said:


> Nice win for the well-liked Chastain, but I may have to brush up on my Tammy Faye Bakker. Chastain is inspired by her?


Tammy Faye was painted in a pretty good light in the movie.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Haven’t seen Coda, but it’s on Apple TV+ so I guess I’ll take a watch. Apple had two big award wins this year, the other being Ted Lasso. 

I’m not sure I understand the “jazz hands” thing. Is that just because the actor can’t hear clapping? If so, he can still see people clapping.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

I was wondering what the heck Lady Gaga was doing presenting Best Picture, but she was very sweet with Liza Minelli. That was touching.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

morac said:


> Haven’t seen Coda, but it’s on Apple TV+ so I guess I’ll take a watch. Apple had two big award wins this year, the other being Ted Lasso.
> 
> I’m not sure I understand the “jazz hands” thing. Is that just because the actor can’t hear clapping? If so, he can still see people clapping.


Waving your fingers in the air is applause in sign language.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

morac said:


> Haven’t seen Coda, but it’s on Apple TV+ so I guess I’ll take a watch. Apple had two big award wins this year, the other being Ted Lasso.
> 
> I’m not sure I understand the “jazz hands” thing. Is that just because the actor can’t hear clapping? If so, he can still see people clapping.


That’s how the deaf clap.

CODA was the co-front runner and I’m happy it won. There will be a backlash (well, there already is one) because it’s not “serious” enough cinematically for some people, but screw ‘em. It’s a nice movie that people really like and is quietly important, and those reasons are just fine for me.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Overall every major category went entirely as consensus predicted. Not one upset win in the bunch. For once I think that’s actually OK.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

cmontyburns said:


> CODA was the co-front runner and I’m happy it won. There will be a backlash (well, there already is one) because it’s not “serious” enough cinematically for some people, but screw ‘em. It’s a nice movie that people really like and is quietly important, and those reasons are just fine for me.


We watched it this weekend. My comment was, "I don't know if it deserves or will get Best Picture, but the Academy loves a movie like that."


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## ThatOne (Oct 21, 2008)

Chris Rock’s POV


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508279231477956609


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Best Oscar broadcast in a while. The three hosts did a good job, Amy Schumer did a superb job. She looks good for one year, amiright? 😁

Absolutely loved seeing Coppola, Pacino and De Niro on stage together (82, 81, 78). Also the Pulp Fiction reunion--Travolta, Jackson and Uma.

For once, almost every nominee in the Best Actor/Actress category was deserving.



morac said:


> That just seemed wildly inappropriate. In Memorium is supposed to be a somber moment to remember people who’ve died and you have people dancing and singing into foreground. Every year they make it more about the person singing than those that died, but this year was just disrespectful.


Came here to post the same comment. We're watching a tribute to the greats who have passed away, we're not here to watch a song & dance ensemble. Total 100% BS.

"Summer of Soul" is an amazing documentary, I watched it when it came out. Well worth the time, especially if you're familiar with the groups and music. So now both late show bandleaders have won Oscars, while the hosts... crickets.

As a deaf person, loved seeing CODA win, as well as all the love for the cast & story. Guess I need to watch it🙄.

Ran way too long, 3:40. Will Smith is responsible for about ten minutes of that . And whatever TF they tried to do with presenting some of the awards earlier... massive failure.

_
edited for grammar_


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## Jim1348 (Jan 3, 2015)

I didn't watch this last night, but I just read this morning that there was an incident.


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## Hcour (Dec 24, 2007)

Whoa! Watching the news this morning, they showed a clip of Smith slapping Rock and I thought it was a rehearsed bit, then they started talking about it being an actual incident. Wow. One of the most bizarre things I've seen lately.


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## Guy Fleegman (12 mo ago)

Good thing it wasn't Kevin Hart doing Jada jokes, that woulda killed him.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Fortunately for Smith, Rock didn’t file a police report otherwise Smith could be going to jail for 6 months. 









Will Smith Won’t Be Arrested For Oscars Assault Of Chris Rock After Comic Declines To File Police Report


Chris Rock has decided not to file a police report against Will Smith after the King Richard actor hit him in the face onstage at the Oscars on Sunday — at least for now. Los Angeles Police D…




deadline.com


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

I've never understood this pressing charges thing. I get that if the only witness/victim refuses to testify, they would not proceed with charges. But something that happened in front of millions of people? Why do they need the victim to press charges? Police can arrest you and you can be charged for things nobody presses charges for.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

Maybe because it’s a misdemeanor and not a felony? I have no idea, just speculating.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Just read this burb on ew.com. I didn't notice any of these in the moment, but oof.

_Somebody tomorrow should be sleeping with the fishes, and that somebody is whoever thought that cueing the entrance of two recent Black Oscar winners, H.E.R. and Daniel Kaluuya, to Toto's "Africa," or Encanto's Stephanie Beatriz to "La Isla Bonita" (she's Latina, get it?) was somehow subtle or cute. Also pretty tacky, if it was in fact intentional: Maneskin's "Beggin'" as a winky dig at last-minute attendee and presenter Rachel Zegler, the young West Side Story star who basically had to shame ABC into inviting her._


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## Guy Fleegman (12 mo ago)

TV famous vs Hollywood Blockbuster famous


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

I fear that by the end of the day, the country will be sharply divided into "pro-slap" and "anti-slap," with many users on Twitter and Reddit proclaiming their expertise regarding the laws involving assault in California.


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## Jim1348 (Jan 3, 2015)

Guy Fleegman said:


> Good thing it wasn't Kevin Hart doing Jada jokes, that woulda killed him.


Someone on Facebook posted this. I do know a few people that can be triggered with mere words.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Would be interesting if the Academy revoked his Oscar due to code of conduct as some are speculating. Interesting in many ways include the outright hypocrisy of allowing Polanski - whose crimes were way way way more serious - to win Oscars for The Pianist.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

cmontyburns said:


> Just read this burb on ew.com. I didn't notice any of these in the moment, but oof.
> 
> _Somebody tomorrow should be sleeping with the fishes, and that somebody is whoever thought that cueing the entrance of two recent Black Oscar winners, H.E.R. and Daniel Kaluuya, to Toto's "Africa," or Encanto's Stephanie Beatriz to "La Isla Bonita" (she's Latina, get it?) was somehow subtle or cute. Also pretty tacky, if it was in fact intentional: Maneskin's "Beggin'" as a winky dig at last-minute attendee and presenter Rachel Zegler, the young West Side Story star who basically had to shame ABC into inviting her._


There were a few different DJs providing music last night (as announced by the hosts). I wonder whether these were all the same one.


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## ncsercs (May 5, 2001)

Stay classy, Will Smith.


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## Hcour (Dec 24, 2007)

ncsercs said:


> Stay classy, Will Smith.


Yeah, he made a jerk of himself in front of the whole world.


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## Hcour (Dec 24, 2007)

Hmmm, I wonder what news story will lead the late-night monologues tonight...


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

realityboy said:


> Tammy Faye was painted in a pretty good light in the movie.


If you watched the Surreal life she came across as a very nice person. Everyone on that show loved her.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Hcour said:


> Hmmm, I wonder what news story will lead the late-night monologues tonight...


They will make jokes at their peril 😁


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

Chris Rock was so flustered in the end that he used the old saying "And the winner is..." instead of the the more PC "And the Oscar goes to..."

The Smith-Rock incident aside, I found the blatantly sexism revolting. Can you imagine if it was a man who has patting down hot actresses and calling their names on stage for display? And then there's Amy flirting with an actor who's wife was there. 

Then you had a black woman saying that she always wanted to play a white woman. And yet, no mention of "blackface" with Amy supposed to play Venus Williams.

It reminds me of the time with Chris Rock hosting and the racist joke with Asian kids representing the accounting firm.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

morac said:


> I thought they cut out the live technical awards to make the show shorter. It’s still running over 30 minutes over.


There's a decades-long tradition of the Oscars running at least 30 minutes "over", such that I think there's a tacit understanding about how long it's really going to run. They just refuse to update the guide data to reflect that reality. Why, I don't know. It's certainly possible to make these shows run on time -- they do it regularly for the Grammys.

But in this case, I stupidly padded my recording _only_ 30 minutes and missed the end. I should know better.

BTW, the pre-recorded awards did shorten those segments very slightly (no wait for them to walk to the stage, mainly).


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

dtle said:


> Chris Rock was so flustered in the end that he used the old saying "And the winner is..." instead of the the more PC "And the Oscar goes to..."
> 
> The Smith-Rock incident aside, I found the blatantly sexism revolting. Can you imagine if it was a man who has patting down hot actresses and calling their names on stage for display? And then there's Amy flirting with an actor who's wife was there.


I noticed all of that as well. But given that this thread is has only 73 replies and delay for the discussion blowing up Twitter regarding the Rock-Smith incident, I bet barely anyone was watching (relatively speaking). People want to be entertained.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

If you joke about another man's wife's medical issue then you shouldn't be surprised when he doesn't think it's funny and goes upside your head.


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

cheesesteak said:


> If you joke about another man's wife's medical issue then you shouldn't be surprised when he doesn't think it's funny and goes upside your head.


It isn't clear and entirely possible Rock didn't know about it (I didn't and I'm nowhere near as busy as he is, and celebs don't necessarily keep deep and constant watch over all other celebrities goings on). Beyond that, even if it WAS known and premeditated, it does not deserve a physical assault, especially in the context of a presentation by a edgy comedian during an awards show that is known for sprinkling in roasts/roast-like comments and biting commentary/jokes. Physical violence in the absence of self defense is never ok much less under these very specific and unusual circumstances.

Add to that the terrible example he set for those that look up to him and for the black community that he had seemed to want to help elevate.

And then the massive hypocrisy and lack of self awareness and self-aggrandizing in his acceptance speech put me WAAY over the edge.

I lost all respect for Smith although it has been waning for a while with his potential connections to Scientology and the life and attitudes him and Jada have adopted in their lives.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

There was also Smith’s half-ass apology. He apologized to the Oscar committee and fellow nominees, but not to Rock.


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

morac said:


> There was also Smith’s half-ass apology. He apologized to the Oscar committee and fellow nominees, but not to Rock.


Yeah, that was meant to be part of my comment about his acceptance speech farce which also even though the award was to him, not the film, overshadowed and took away from the story/film.

So not only did the fact that the story of 2 incredibly successful black females get slightly overshadowed by the fact the the male figure was the center of focus, but the actor that portrayed the male lead further overshadowed the importance of the Venus sisters' success by resorting to physical violence on stage/TV and then proclaimed he was doing god's work and being a vessel of love as a protector of family/women. It was disgusting to watch, especially as a Christian.


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> If you joke about another man's wife's medical issue then you shouldn't be surprised when he doesn't think it's funny and goes upside your head.


Did you know of her medical condition before last night? Yea me neither. I doubt Rock did either, the world doesn't revolve around the Smiths.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

GF knew about it immediately. I've heard this morning that Jada Pinkett Smith was very open about her alopecia when she was diagnosed a couple of years back.
I know never to make jokes about a woman's appearance no matter the reason for it.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

It doesn't revolve around them, but she has had the condition since 2018 and has openly talked about it on a number of occasions, including her decision to shave it in December. She didn't just show up to the Oscars with a shaved head... she's been attending all of the awards ceremonies like this.


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

pdhenry said:


> GF knew about it immediately. I've heard this morning that Jada Pinkett Smith was very open about her alopecia when she was diagnosed a couple of years back.
> I know never to make jokes about a woman's appearance no matter the reason for it.


My wife actually watches some of Jada's red table talks or whatever they are and she didn't even know about it.

The joke may have been in poor taste, but the response was criminal and was FAR more inappropriate on many levels that I expanded on above.


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

laria said:


> It doesn't revolve around them, but she has had the condition since 2018 and has openly talked about it on a number of occasions, including her decision to shave it in December. She didn't just show up to the Oscars with a shaved head... she's been attending all of the awards ceremonies like this.


That still doesn't mean Rock knew about it, and again, even if he did, there's so much more wrong with Wil's response.


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## Guy Fleegman (12 mo ago)

_"Prompted by a question from his young daughter, comic Chris Rock sets out to explore the importance of hair in black culture. Rock interviews celebrities such as Ice-T and Raven Symone, and visits hair salons, stylist competitions and even an Indian temple to learn about hair culture."_

Oh, he knew...

...better at least


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

Guy Fleegman said:


> View attachment 70232
> 
> _"Prompted by a question from his young daughter, comic Chris Rock sets out to explore the importance of hair in black culture. Rock interviews celebrities such as Ice-T and Raven Symone, and visits hair salons, stylist competitions and even an Indian temple to learn about hair culture."_
> 
> ...


It really doesn't matter if he knew, unless you believe violence is ok.


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## Guy Fleegman (12 mo ago)

He could have gone after Amy Schumer's Trichotillomania (hair pulling) and saved himself a slapdown.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Hcour said:


> they started talking about it being an actual incident.





dtle said:


> Chris Rock was so flustered in the end that he used the old saying "And the winner is..." instead of the the more PC "And the Oscar goes to..."


Yeah, any question of whether that was staged/real is cleared-up by Rock's effort to get through the remainder of his presentation. He was clearly flustered and botched his lines throughout.




brianp6621 said:


> overshadowed the importance of the Venus sisters' success


Chuckle.


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

krkaufman said:


> Chuckle.


Ooops


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

dtle said:


> I found the blatantly sexism revolting. Can you imagine if it was a man who has patting down hot actresses and calling their names on stage for display?


Totally agree on the sexism, and I had the same thought. What if a man was doing that to a woman, isn't that "Me Too"? Just. Stop.



wmcbrine said:


> But in this case, I stupidly padded my recording _only_ 30 minutes and missed the end. I should know better.


Same here. Luckily I realized it was going long as I was watching it, and dbl padded.



cheesesteak said:


> If you joke about another man's wife's medical issue then you shouldn't be surprised when he doesn't think it's funny and goes upside your head.


Uh, no. It's still assault. It's still violence. 


pdhenry said:


> GF knew about it immediately. I've heard this morning that Jada Pinkett Smith was very open about her alopecia when she was diagnosed a couple of years back.
> I know never to make jokes about a woman's appearance no matter the reason for it.


I knew nothing, and I'm fairly in tune with the entertainment world. But even then, it was a joke about a shaved head, and GI Jane. There are two ways to take it: One can laugh, and let the world laugh with you. Or you can be offended at everyone and everything, and wear it on your shoulder. I've always found JPS to be a stuffy full-of-herself person, and last night did nothing to change my mind.


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

I'm going to see how long I can go without seeing the actual slap. Seen many pictures post slap. Seen videos of Smith walking towards Rock, and then I move on. I know this is going to be a meme for the next 200 years. So, I'll for sure see it eventually, but I want to see how long I can go. I'll probably see it in like 10 minutes.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> If you joke about another man's wife's medical issue then you shouldn't be surprised when he doesn't think it's funny and goes upside your head.


Only, one thing is your right to do, and the other thing is a crime. It always kills me that someone will say attacking someone is justified because they didn't like something the other person said.

That is an insane point of view.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

laria said:


> It doesn't revolve around them, but she has had the condition since 2018 and has openly talked about it on a number of occasions, including her decision to shave it in December. She didn't just show up to the Oscars with a shaved head... she's been attending all of the awards ceremonies like this.


Just imagine if Will had just said that, after the event. How bad would Chris look? But now Will looks like an a-hole. Didn't really get the point accros.


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

astrohip said:


> I knew nothing, and I'm fairly in tune with the entertainment world. But even then, it was a joke about a shaved head, and GI Jane. There are two ways to take it: One can laugh, and let the world laugh with you. Or you can be offended at everyone and everything, and wear it on your shoulder. I've always found JPS to be a stuffy full-of-herself person, and last night did nothing to change my mind.


Yea she should have slapped Will for laughing if she was offended. 😁


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Morning-after reaction: I'm really disappointed. I won't bother being disappointed in Smith personally, as I have nothing invested in him as a person. Nor Rock. But I am disappointed that Smith committed an assault followed up by angry crudeness on global television, and then once things settled down, got to sit back in his chair and smile and laugh the rest of the ceremony as though nothing had happened. I'm disappointed that he got to give his acceptance speech, taking all the time he wanted, and got to excuse his behavior on "protecting" his family. I'm disappointed at all the photos of him at afterparties, living it up as though he hadn't just ruined the Oscars. I'm disappointed at all his celebrity friends defending him today, as though there were any justification for that (is it that hard to say, "I love him, but he was wrong"?).

In the grand scheme, none of it matters, but then isn't that also sort of the problem? Shouldn't what he did have mattered, in at least some of those respects?


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Adam1115 said:


> Only, one thing is your right to do, and the other thing is a crime. It always kills me that someone will say attacking someone is justified because they didn't like something the other person said.
> 
> That is an insane point of view.


One critic, in his post-show column, wrote this, and it seems right to me:

_He apologized to the Academy and to his fellow nominees, but I don’t know how else to put this: If a comedian — one as brilliant as Rock at his peak or as hacky as Rock was Sunday night before the G.I. Jane joke — makes fun of you, you yell back at them. You ask Chris Rock when he was last funny. You make fun of the size of his genitals. Maybe you swear at him, because you’re angry and protecting your wife. You don’t stand up and commit assault on national TV, and it’s tempting to wonder what would have happened to anybody who had done the same thing and wasn’t 15 minutes away from winning an Oscar. I’m fairly sure a civilian taking a swing at Rock for no reason would have been arrested. I’m not sure what happens if Bardem, who was never winning Sunday night, had come up and slugged Rock, but I’m guessing he’d have been escorted out of the building at a minimum._


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

cmontyburns said:


> One critic, in his post-show column, wrote this, and it seems right to me:
> 
> _He apologized to the Academy and to his fellow nominees, but I don’t know how else to put this: If a comedian — one as brilliant as Rock at his peak or as hacky as Rock was Sunday night before the G.I. Jane joke — makes fun of you, you yell back at them. You ask Chris Rock when he was last funny. You make fun of the size of his genitals. Maybe you swear at him, because you’re angry and protecting your wife. You don’t stand up and commit assault on national TV, and it’s tempting to wonder what would have happened to anybody who had done the same thing and wasn’t 15 minutes away from winning an Oscar. I’m fairly sure a civilian taking a swing at Rock for no reason would have been arrested. I’m not sure what happens if Bardem, who was never winning Sunday night, had come up and slugged Rock, but I’m guessing he’d have been escorted out of the building at a minimum._


Exactly. There were ways to stick up for your wife that doesn't involve criminal assault on national television and then strolling away like your a bada$$. He could have easily made this about how comedians sometimes cross the line, shaming people for looks/medical conditions etc, but instead he chose to become a thug and will be remembered poorly for it by many.


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)




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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Chris was wrong for being an insensitive *******.

Will was much wronger, and should have been charged with battery.


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

Adam1115 said:


> Just imagine if Will had just said that, after the event. How bad would Chris look? But now Will looks like an a-hole. Didn't really get the point accros.


This is the interesting aspect to me. If Smith had simply acted like an adult, any negative reaction today (although considerably lesser) would have been focused on Rock's insensitivity. But no....


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

astrohip said:


> Absolutely loved seeing Coppola, Pacino and De Niro on stage together (82, 81, 78). Also the Pulp Fiction reunion--Travolta, Jackson and Uma.


Thought the various "reunions" were kind of odd. At least some of the others were celebrating round numbers, like 15 years for Juno or 50 years for The Godfather. But "celebrating the 28th anniversary of Pulp Fiction" just seemed really dumb. Bring out whatever stars from whatever movies you want, but don't say you're celebrating the "anniversary" of the movie. That's just dumb.

Also, Robert DeNiro wasn't in The Godfather.



astrohip said:


> Came here to post the same comment. We're watching a tribute to the greats who have passed away, we're not here to watch a song & dance ensemble. Total 100% BS.


Agreed about the In Memoriam segment. The performance of the music should always be subtle and not upstage the names/pictures. The music itself was fine, but the crazy dancing was wildly inappropriate. Frankly, I'd prefer if they kept the focus on the screen the whole time, rather than cutting back and forth between the screen and the performers, because the deceased people who are shown while the performers are in the foreground get short shrift.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

I think in general the TV directing seemed off. Certainly cutting the Mike on Chris and Will was not planned but during Will's speech the screen jumped to a static promo screen of the "The Oscars" multiple times which I thought was weird. Was something going on there we weren't suppose to see.


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

DevdogAZ said:


> Thought the various "reunions" were kind of odd. At least some of the others were celebrating round numbers, like 15 years for Juno or 50 years for The Godfather. But "celebrating the 28th anniversary of Pulp Fiction" just seemed really dumb. Bring out whatever stars from whatever movies you want, but don't say you're celebrating the "anniversary" of the movie. That's just dumb.
> 
> Also, Robert DeNiro wasn't in The Godfather.
> 
> ...


Pacino looked about 30s from a mental facility or retirement home, he did not look well.

I FULLY agree on the in memoriam, it shouldn't be about the performer or the song(s). The upbeat music was inappropriate for me, I know it seemed like a bit of a Gospel take on it but didn't reflect the gravity of the situation.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

zalusky said:


> I think in general the TV directing seemed off. Certainly cutting the Mike on Chris and Will was not planned but during Will's speech the screen jumped to a static promo screen of the "The Oscars" multiple times which I thought was weird. Was something going on there we weren't suppose to see.


It happened right as Will said something like, "I just spit, I hope you couldn't see that." And they switched to a shot of the Williams sisters, but that glitched a bit, as well.


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

zalusky said:


> I think in general the TV directing seemed off. Certainly cutting the Mike on Chris and Will was not planned but during Will's speech the screen jumped to a static promo screen of the "The Oscars" multiple times which I thought was weird. Was something going on there we weren't suppose to see.


He did say he spit, don't know if was a Rosanne Barr type of spit but maybe they were worried he'd do something else crazy.


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

It's a good thing Don Rickles isn't around to host the Oscars.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

astrohip said:


> "Summer of Soul" is an amazing documentary, I watched it when it came out. Well worth the time, especially if you're familiar with the groups and music. So now both late show bandleaders have won Oscars, while the hosts... crickets.


"Both" late show band leaders? I think Cleto and Reggie and (sometimes) Fred Armisen might have something to say about that.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Will Smith Apologizes to Chris Rock, Faces Academy Investigation for Slap


The “King Richard” star and Best Actor winner said he was embarrassed and apologized to the comedian, the Academy and the Williams sisters.




www.wsj.com





Paywalled, but it says the Academy has the power to revoke an award after the fact. "The Academy condemns the actions of Mr. Smith at last night's show. We have officially started a formal review around the incident and will explore further action and consequences in accordance with our Bylaws, Standards of Conduct, and California law."


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

zalusky said:


> I think in general the TV directing seemed off. Certainly cutting the Mike on Chris and Will was not planned but during Will's speech the screen jumped to a static promo screen of the "The Oscars" multiple times which I thought was weird. Was something going on there we weren't suppose to see.


The gist that I saw in other sources was that there was a "nip slip" that the camera accidentally caught.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> Thought the various "reunions" were kind of odd.


Not a reunion per se, but the moment that seemed really hard to watch was when they brought out Liza Minelli. Lady Gaga was really good with her (probably in part to her experience working with Tony Bennett for so long) but it seemed really unnecessary to have her out there in the state that she was.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

LoadStar said:


> The gist that I saw in other sources was that there was a "nip slip" that the camera accidentally caught.


Damn!


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> The gist that I saw in other sources was that there was a "nip slip" that the camera accidentally caught.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508550317457162252
So they cut to the Williams sisters to avoid showing Will Smith's spit, and then had to cut away from that with a generic Oscars logo due to Venus having a wardrobe malfunction at that exact moment (or maybe she'd been having it for a long time and nobody noticed until there was a camera on them).


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Jaden Smith, one of the Smiths’ children, tweeted simply: “And That’s How We Do It.”


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## Hcour (Dec 24, 2007)

Tony_T said:


> Jaden Smith, one of the Smiths’ children, tweeted simply: “And That’s How We Do It.”


Oh boy, that isn't going to go over well with a lot of people. I think most folks are hoping for more apologizing from dear ole dad in the near future.


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## markb (Jul 24, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508550317457162252
> So they cut to the Williams sisters to avoid showing Will Smith's spit, and then had to cut away from that with a generic Oscars logo due to Venus having a wardrobe malfunction at that exact moment (or maybe she'd been having it for a long time and nobody noticed until there was a camera on them).


Likely two different people making the decisions. The director makes the decision about which camera to go to, and then there's the person on the dump button, who's monitoring for things that don't meet broadcast standards, and either dumps the audio or video.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Chris Rock woke up to fresh prints on his face.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Adam1115 said:


> Chris Rock woke up to fresh prints on his face.


The way I heard it was: What did the police find when they dusted Chris Rock's face?

Fresh prints.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Tony_T said:


> Jaden Smith, one of the Smiths’ children, tweeted simply: “And That’s How We Do It.”


This is what happens when you engage your fingers, but not your brain. He's basically saying "I advocate for violence when I'm offended". I get he can't dump on his dad, so just keep quiet.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

markb said:


> Likely two different people making the decisions. The director makes the decision about which camera to go to, and then there's the person on the dump button, who's monitoring for things that don't meet broadcast standards, and either dumps the audio or video.


And that guy had his work cut out for him in that last 45 minutes or so of the show, given that they hit the "dump" button during the Chris Rock bit, and again during Will Smith's acceptance speech.

Cutting to the title card seemed a little unusual. From what I've seen, award shows often have what I call a "God camera," a camera with an extreme wide angle lens that is lifted up right to the ceiling in the back of the auditorium, so that it captures the entire auditorium. When they have to dump video only, they inject that camera feed instead. It's sometimes less obtrusive to the viewer at home, because it's at least _a_ camera angle from the venue, even if it's a relatively useless camera angle.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Was link-hopping Oscars ceremony coverage and landed on YouTube watching CODA star Emilia Jones's appearance on Fallon last week (before the Oscars, to be clear). She was as charming as you could hope and her visit was a lot of fun, except for the part in the middle where Fallon asked her about celebrities she had met on the awards trail and Will Smith came up. Apparently she is quite a fan and so she and Fallon talked about her fan-girling out on him. That probably would have seemed fun and cute a day ago but now -- ugh.


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## markb (Jul 24, 2002)

LoadStar said:


> And that guy had his work cut out for him in that last 45 minutes or so of the show, given that they hit the "dump" button during the Chris Rock bit, and again during Will Smith's acceptance speech.
> 
> Cutting to the title card seemed a little unusual. From what I've seen, award shows often have what I call a "God camera," a camera with an extreme wide angle lens that is lifted up right to the ceiling in the back of the auditorium, so that it captures the entire auditorium. When they have to dump video only, they inject that camera feed instead. It's sometimes less obtrusive to the viewer at home, because it's at least _a_ camera angle from the venue, even if it's a relatively useless camera angle.


I think this may have to do with where the dumping is happening. As we saw upthread from the Japanese clip, they were not dumping the audio when Will Smith was cussing. So maybe there is no dump button in the main control room, but rather each broadcaster does its own thing, and therefore they don't have access to the wide shot of the auditorium. Just a guess, though.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Lots of cool details here about what the presence of CODA did for the accessibility of the ceremony and broadcast.









How ‘CODA’ Helped Elevate the Deaf Community and ASL Interpretation at the Oscars


The presence of the best picture winner's cast and team changed what all guests experienced inside the Dolby Theatre and what viewers saw on TV during the Academy Awards on Sunday night.




www.hollywoodreporter.com


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

LoadStar said:


> Not a reunion per se, but the moment that seemed really hard to watch was when they brought out Liza Minelli. Lady Gaga was really good with her (probably in part to her experience working with Tony Bennett for so long) but it seemed really unnecessary to have her out there in the state that she was.


This was apparently Gaga's doing:









Lady Gaga requested Liza Minnelli present Best Picture with her at Oscars


Lady Gaga — clad in a 'Cabaret' tuxedo — personally requested that Liza Minnelli present Best Picture with her at the Oscars.




ew.com





Which brings up the question I had before we learned she would be presenting with Liza Minelli: what the heck is Lady Gaga doing presenting an Oscar, much less Best Picture? OK, I get that she is an actor now too, so the viewing-audience pandering behind having her on stage is at least marginally justified contextually, but Best Picture? Come on.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

LoadStar said:


> The gist that I saw in other sources was that there was a "nip slip" that the camera accidentally caught.


But when they finally cut back to the Williams sisters the slip was still there (_maybe_ not as far as in the posted Tweet, but far enough that I knew why they were having video issues).


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

cmontyburns said:


> what the heck is Lady Gaga doing presenting an Oscar, much less Best Picture?


She has an Oscar (Best Original Song for "Shallow" in A Star Is Born).


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)




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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Waiting for Jaden's response!



eddyj said:


> View attachment 70250


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

pdhenry said:


> She has an Oscar (Best Original Song for "Shallow" in A Star Is Born).


I didn't acknowledge that, but I am aware. But still -- Best Picture?


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

eddyj said:


> View attachment 70250


He's so embarrassed he attended the rest of the ceremony with a big grin on his face, and partied all night long afterwards (as documented in photos).


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

cmontyburns said:


> I didn't acknowledge that, but I am aware. But still -- Best Picture?


I don't know what the criteria are.

Edit: Well, maybe this helps:








How Are Each Year's Oscar Presenters Chosen?


It all comes down to star power, tradition, and perhaps even a relationship between the presenter and the recipient.




www.mentalfloss.com


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

eddyj said:


> View attachment 70250


Took him almost 24 hours and after The Academy condemned his actions (and most likely written by his publicist)
NYT: Will Smith Apologizes to Chris Rock After Academy Condemns His Slap
”LOS ANGELES — Will Smith apologized to the comedian Chris Rock on Monday evening for slapping him during Sunday night’s Oscars telecast after the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, which administers the awards, denounced his actions and opened an inquiry into the incident”


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## connie_w (Jan 10, 2015)

I really was somewhat disappointed in the entire production. I just thought it lacked a lot. 

Starting with the opening by Beyonce - I think that was the most disappointing opening I have ever seen. Perhaps it's because I didn't understand it. Maybe I'm getting too old to relate to it. I don't know. I usually like the productions I've seen of her music, before.

The other thing that really bothered me was some of the dresses that looked as if they wore their backless dresses backwards. I just think it looked cheap and tawdry. Even Tracee Ellis Ross wore some ridiculously chest bare dress. It was weird as heck. At one point on stage I wasn't sure if the dress failed and what we were seeing was her pasties showing or if that was the actual dress. Whatever it was, it was horrible.

The timing seemed to be off and the audio bad for most of the presentations in each category. It's like they didn't show up for rehearsals and practice their lines. 

The deal with Chris Rock and Will Smith was something else. Chris Rock may or may not have known about Jada's hair situation. I remember there was much ado about it as there always seems to be with her when she announced it and that she decided to shave her head. The Smith's usually know how to publicize everything - they are pro's. I still wonder if Will did this because he thought the publicity would favor him. And, it backfired. I don''t know, he seemed sincere when he was crying and apologizing to the academy and such, but then again, he is a top notch actor. Maybe he was just putting on an act. I think it's a darn shame. I always liked him and think he's done some great acting. This too shall pass, I guess. There was no good reason to get up and go smack Chris and then really no excuse to yell profanities. Chris should get an award for bravely trying to continue on and recover.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Tony_T said:


> Took him almost 24 hours and after The Academy condemned his actions (and most likely written by his publicist)
> NYT: Will Smith Apologizes to Chris Rock After Academy Condemns His Slap
> ”LOS ANGELES — Will Smith apologized to the comedian Chris Rock on Monday evening for slapping him during Sunday night’s Oscars telecast after the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, which administers the awards, denounced his actions and opened an inquiry into the incident”


I'm guessing his PR team had to beg him to apologize and he only relented once they convinced him that most people were not on his side.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

pdhenry said:


> She has an Oscar (Best Original Song for "Shallow" in A Star Is Born).


She's a Best Actress nominee as well. I don't think she's a puzzling choice at all.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

markb said:


> I think this may have to do with where the dumping is happening. As we saw upthread from the Japanese clip, they were not dumping the audio when Will Smith was cussing. So maybe there is no dump button in the main control room, but rather each broadcaster does its own thing, and therefore they don't have access to the wide shot of the auditorium. Just a guess, though.


Usually a broadcast delay is only around 30 seconds or so. Too many dumps, like happened during the Oscars and you catch up to real time and are forced to just cut away to nothing (like a title card).


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## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

gweempose said:


> I'm guessing his PR team had to beg him to apologize and he only relented once they convinced him that most people were not on his side.


I'd be curious to see how many folks are on his side. Given the online reactions, I think it's a pretty close split actually. Including some Democratic congress critters. Or at least until they realize that it was a bad look and deleted their supportive tweets.

I didn't see the broadcast but obviously I couldn't avoid the story today. At this point in time, I think the "might makes right" mindset is winning so Will Smith thought he was a big enough star that nothing will happen to him and I think he's right. The Academy could rescind his Oscar but that isn't going to happen, IMO.


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

It amazes me how many people believe that Smith was right for his actions of defending his wife with physical violence over a bad joke. There are so many more appropriate ways to defend her, but for me, escalation is always the wrong answer. It does answer the question for me, "Why is this world so screwed up?"

Kudos to Rock for finding a way to get through the incident without escalating it even further.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

David Platt said:


> She's a Best Actress nominee as well. I don't think she's a puzzling choice at all.


A lot of people are Gaga haters, because she is so flamboyant and such. The fact she is a gay icon and seems to not give a crap what people think only adds to that.

I keep on being impressed by her voice and her person (behind the façade).


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## Hcour (Dec 24, 2007)

eddyj said:


> A lot of people are Gaga haters, because she is so flamboyant and such. The fact she is a gay icon and seems to not give a crap what people think only adds to that.
> 
> I keep on being impressed by her voice and her person (behind the façade).


She was the only good thing about House of Gucci.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

logic88 said:


> The Academy could rescind his Oscar but that isn't going to happen, IMO.


One thing I heard today is that he could be suspended from the Academy for ~a year which makes him ineligible to attend Academy events or win awards. He has a film in the works that could be affected financially by the ineligibility (although there are plenty of other industry awards).


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

logic88 said:


> I'd be curious to see how many folks are on his side. Given the online reactions, I think it's a pretty close split actually. Including some Democratic congress critters. Or at least until they realize that it was a bad look and deleted their supportive tweets.


No need for political comments in this thread.



eddyj said:


> A lot of people are Gaga haters, because she is so flamboyant and such. The fact she is a gay icon and seems to not give a crap what people think only adds to that.
> 
> I keep on being impressed by her voice and her person (behind the façade).


Me too. Her early incarnations were so weird (meat somethings?), but as time goes by, I've come to realize she is a really good actor, and an amazingly decent person.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

David Platt said:


> She's a Best Actress nominee as well. I don't think she's a puzzling choice at all.


Admittedly I had forgotten this, so I will relent. It seems pretty clear, though, that the reason she was in that slot was part of the much-publicized attempt to lure more eyeballs to the broadcast, for example by having DJ Khalid onstage to start, or Tony Hawk and Shaun White presenting a James Bond montage. Gaga is way, way more appropriate than either of them, and she is a big name presenting an award that should be given by a big name. But in a ceremony whose theme was (literally, they said so), "We love the movies!", having someone best known as a singer present the award was an unusual choice.



eddyj said:


> A lot of people are Gaga haters, because she is so flamboyant and such. The fact she is a gay icon and seems to not give a crap what people think only adds to that.


In case it was implied that I may be in "a lot", I'm not. I like a lot of her work and respect her craft. She gets caught up in the cult of her own personality more than I prefer, but at some level I guess that is part-and-parcel with being an entertainer at her level.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

cmontyburns said:


> In case it was implied that I may be in "a lot", I'm not.


For the record, it was not.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

logic88 said:


> The Academy could rescind his Oscar but that isn't going to happen, IMO.


I think it would be really stupid move to rescind his Oscar. His actions at the awards show have nothing to do with his performance that he won for. If you start retroactively taking away Oscars from people, that's a pretty slippery slope. You would obviously have to start taking away awards from people Weinstein, Cosby, etc ... Where does it end?

Now if the Academy decided that Smith is no longer welcome to attend the live awards show in the future, I would fully support that. The man walked up on stage in the middle of the broadcast and hit a presenter in the face. I think being banned from future shows would be quite appropriate.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Agreed they should not rescind his Oscar. They should have removed him from the ceremony after ‘the slap’ though. (Read that it was discussed, but with Smith likely to win for best actor, they decided not to remove him)


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

pdhenry said:


> But when they finally cut back to the Williams sisters the slip was still there (_maybe_ not as far as in the posted Tweet, but far enough that I knew why they were having video issues).


The only wardrobe malfunction I saw happened to Tracee Ellis-Ross. Seriously, why are the women not covering up for this?


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

connie_w said:


> I really was somewhat disappointed in the entire production. I just thought it lacked a lot.
> 
> Starting with the opening by Beyonce - I think that was the most disappointing opening I have ever seen. Perhaps it's because I didn't understand it. Maybe I'm getting too old to relate to it. I don't know. I usually like the productions I've seen of her music, before.


I fast forward through anything Beyonce does. The exception was when she did a voice in "The Lion King".


connie_w said:


> The deal with Chris Rock and Will Smith was something else. Chris Rock may or may not have known about Jada's hair situation. I remember there was much ado about it as there always seems to be with her when she announced it and that she decided to shave her head. The Smith's usually know how to publicize everything - they are pro's. I still wonder if Will did this because he thought the publicity would favor him. And, it backfired. I don''t know, he seemed sincere when he was crying and apologizing to the academy and such, but then again, he is a top notch actor. Maybe he was just putting on an act. I think it's a darn shame. I always liked him and think he's done some great acting. This too shall pass, I guess. There was no good reason to get up and go smack Chris and then really no excuse to yell profanities. Chris should get an award for bravely trying to continue on and recover.


The way it was done really looked like a prank. The way Chris reacted to Will coming up there seemed planned.

As for how he kept going, it seemed he was shaken up because it seemed so real.

It just doesn't seem possible to me that it wasn't staged. Will laughed at the joke, after all, and later he seemed fine.


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## Guy Fleegman (12 mo ago)

Since Will Smith won an Oscar this year, won't he be a presenter next year? Oh the karmic implications....


"Yeah, that's him..."


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

eddyj said:


> View attachment 70250


Still, he laughed at the joke to begin with.

I think it's funny if Jada shaving her head was just a fashion choice. For some reason, in my opinion Black men and Black women who shave their head or have very short hair look better than those who are not Black who do the same. An African Miss universe contestant had no hair one year and she looked great. It's actually a good look for Jada.

Personally, I like long hair on women.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

morac said:


> Usually a broadcast delay is only around 30 seconds or so. Too many dumps, like happened during the Oscars and you catch up to real time and are forced to just cut away to nothing (like a title card).













Hcour said:


> She was the only good thing about House of Gucci.


No, that was Jared Leto. Without his performance, that movie would have been unwatchable.


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

cmontyburns said:


> He's so embarrassed he attended the rest of the ceremony with a big grin on his face, and partied all night long afterwards (as documented in photos).


Exactly. I never doubted that it was staged until the next day when I saw news stories.


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

jamesbobo said:


> It's a good thing Don Rickles isn't around to host the Oscars.


He and Chris Rock are my favorite insult comics. I enjoy it when Chris insults us white people.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

At least it wasn’t like when Jim Jefferies was attacked on stage in 2007


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

HarleyRandom said:


> I think it's funny if Jada shaving her head was just a fashion choice.


I had no idea she was struggling with alopeicia. Like many, I assumed it was a fashion choice, and I actually think she looks great bald. That's precisely why I thought the joke was funny. I don't understand the people that are upset with Rock. I've seen him interviewed many times, and he has never struck me as a mean spirited guy. I'm sure if he knew she was battling hair loss he never would have made the joke. So assuming the joke came from a place of ignorance, I simply don't see what the big deal is. It wasn't like he was insulting the way she looks. He just drew a comparison to her bald head and Moore's bald head in GI Jane. I don't recall anyone thinking Moore looked ugly in that film, so where is the insult?


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

cmontyburns said:


> Admittedly I had forgotten this, so I will relent. It seems pretty clear, though, that the reason she was in that slot was part of the much-publicized attempt to lure more eyeballs to the broadcast, for example by having DJ Khalid onstage to start, or Tony Hawk and Shaun White presenting a James Bond montage. Gaga is way, way more appropriate than either of them, and she is a big name presenting an award that should be given by a big name. But in a ceremony whose theme was (literally, they said so), "We love the movies!", having someone best known as a singer present the award was an unusual choice.


I think it was more in comparing her to Liza who, despite being more of a song and dance and broadway person, is considered Hollywood royalty.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

I agree 100% with Jim Carrey's take on the situation:



https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/jim-carrey-sickened-by-hollywoods-reaction-will-smith-slapping-chris-rock-163809925.html


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## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

astrohip said:


> No need for political comments in this thread.


I only bring the Congress people's deleted tweets up as a point that Will Smith has a lot of support for his actions but that support might not be as obvious since it's a bad look to support violence.


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

gweempose said:


> I had no idea she was struggling with alopeicia. Like many, I assumed it was a fashion choice, and I actually think she looks great bald. That's precisely why I thought the joke was funny. I don't understand the people that are upset with Rock. I've seen him interviewed many times, and he has never struck me as a mean spirited guy. I'm sure if he knew she was battling hair loss he never would have made the joke. So assuming the joke came from a place of ignorance, I simply don't see what the big deal is. It wasn't like he was insulting the way she looks. He just drew a comparison to her bald head and Moore's bald head in GI Jane. I don't recall anyone thinking Moore looked ugly in that film, so where is the insult?


I do like Demi with long hair though and I wouldn't have been happy with it. I can't believe I've never seen the film.

Chris, like Don Rickles, can sound mean without being mean.


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## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

gweempose said:


> I think it would be really stupid move to rescind his Oscar. His actions at the awards show have nothing to do with his performance that he won for. If you start retroactively taking away Oscars from people, that's a pretty slippery slope. You would obviously have to start taking away awards from people Weinstein, Cosby, etc ... Where does it end?
> 
> Now if the Academy decided that Smith is no longer welcome to attend the live awards show in the future, I would fully support that. The man walked up on stage in the middle of the broadcast and hit a presenter in the face. I think being banned from future shows would be quite appropriate.


The articles that I saw which mention revoking the Oscar said that it was due to the new code of conduct adopted in 2017 so presumably it would be a different situation from taking away awards from people who won before the new code of conduct. But I don't think there's much chance of them taking away the award anyway.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

gweempose said:


> I'm sure if he knew she was battling hair loss he never would have made the joke


Not defending the slap at all, but Chris definitely knew, it was not a secret at all, she has discussed it publicly.

Also: What’s Behind the Will Smith and Chris Rock Feud?

Having said that, there is a huge gap between a tasteless joke and battery.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

There have been comedians at previous Oscar ceremonies who savaged the nominees much worse IMHO.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

zalusky said:


> There have been comedians at previous Oscar ceremonies who savaged the nominees much worse IMHO.


And making fun of Wil would have been completely OK, in my book. Making fun of the wife's medical condition? Not so much.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

eddyj said:


> Not defending the slap at all, but Chris definitely knew, it was not a secret at all, she has discussed it publicly.


How do you know that he knew? Just because she was public about it doesn't mean that every person was aware of it. I wasn't, and neither was my wife, and she follows all of that Hollywood gossip crap.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

gweempose said:


> How do you know that he knew? Just because she was public about it doesn't mean that every person was aware of it. I wasn't, and neither was my wife, and she follows all of that Hollywood gossip crap.


So he decided to make fun of her without even bothering to know what was very publicly known about why she was bald? That is somehow better?


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I agree with Carrey as well. The fact that Smith wasn't immediately escorted from the theater and kicked to the curb shows how corrupt and two-faced Hollywood is. I won't say "has become" because they're no worse than they always were. And a standing ovation? Who cares if he was going to win an Oscar? Why does that matter? Someone else, who hopefully has their crap together a little more, would just accept the award for him; it's not unprecedented after all.

"Oh he did it to defend the honor of his wife". What a crock. He did it because HE got mad and HIS feelings got hurt. That's first grade recess behavior and even then the kid would most likely be sent home for the day.

And this idea that Rock deserved it because he made fun of a big celebrity? Get real. If you're in the public eye people are going to make jokes about you. And certainly if you make a big deal of your own looks, then they're fair game for others to comment on. This is how we get a guy shot to death in a theater for throwing popcorn and the gunman found not guilty; Smith is lucky the awards ceremonies weren't held in FL or he could be dead right now and no one would even be charged.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

eddyj said:


> Not defending the slap at all, but Chris definitely knew, it was not a secret at all, she has discussed it publicly.
> 
> Also: What’s Behind the Will Smith and Chris Rock Feud?
> 
> Having said that, there is a huge gap between a tasteless joke and battery.


There's no way to say that Chris Rock knew about her medical issue simply because she had publicly talked about it. I suspect Chris Rock doesn't know or care about what Jada Pinkett Smith says, as evidenced by his joke about her at the 2016 Oscars: "Jada boycotting the Oscars is like me boycotting Rihanna's panties. I wasn't invited."


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

eddyj said:


> So he decided to make fun of her without even bothering to know what was very publicly known about why she was bald? That is somehow better?


We clearly perceive the situation very differently. I don't think he was making fun of her at all. As I said before, I don't see how pointing out that a popular bald female actress is reminiscent of G.I. Jane is an insult. Now obviously, the situation is very different once you know she has alopecia, but if you remove that from the equation, I think the joke was rather innocuous.


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

eddyj said:


> So he decided to make fun of her without even bothering to know what was very publicly known about why she was bald? That is somehow better?


Yes. It would be tasteless to make fun of her (or anyone's) appearance, although poking fun at the celebs in the audience is pretty much a given at the Oscars. It is much _more_ tasteless to make fun of her (or anyone's) appearance if he knew that appearance was due to an illness. Of course, neither scenario justifies violence.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Do we actually know who wrote the joke? I've seen it repeatedly stated that Chris Rock didn't write it, AA jokewriters wrote it, and he was just reading it. (Although you can't trust anything you read on the internet these days). Although I'd say he was bombing and he knew it, so he tried to draw the joke out for a second laugh, and that didn't help matters.

And I don't agree with this notion that everyone knows about Jada's condition, or that there's any reason for Chris Rock to have known. Yes, she's been very public about it, but that doesn't mean everyone on the planet is glued to he twitter feed or various appearances where she's talked about it. Lots of people are very public about a lot of things, that nobody knows or cares about. I mean, Kim Kardashian is very public about oh I don't give a fig about anything worth finishing this sentence. I don't think whomever wrote the jokes did a lot of research on whomever they were picking on.

That said, Will's reaction was kinda bizarre. Laughing, then getting up. It's like he laughed, then had the very deliberate thought: "You know what, I think I need to slap him over that on international TV" - which is just, odd... Can't quite reconcile that decision. 

But the people calling for Will to report directly to prison are just crazy. While it's not right, if every person who ever slapped another person did a mandatory 6 months of hard time, we'd have more people in jail for slapping than drug offenses. If Chris doesn't want to pursue it, that's the end of it from a legal point of view. 

What the Academy should do, meh, don't care either way.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Rick Gervais is a good example at the Golden Globes that had harsher jokes


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

I’m baffled by why people don’t think Wil could have laughed at it and also been genuinely offended. 1 celebrities who know they will be on camera (especially when you’re up for one of the biggest awards and seated at the very front table) are basically programmed to laugh/look good so when the camera cuts to them they show a good shot/reaction. Second I have just gone along with laughing with jokes before while my brain processes them and then I might actually have a different take/reaction after a few seconds.
Both or either of these things to me can easily explain Wil’s quick demeanor change.


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## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

kdmorse said:


> But the people calling for Will to report directly to prison are just crazy. While it's not right, if every person who ever slapped another person did a mandatory 6 months of hard time, we'd have more people in jail for slapping than drug offenses. If Chris doesn't want to pursue it, that's the end of it from a legal point of view.


It would be a waste of resources to prosecute Smith but at the same time, it just points out how insane the criminal justice system is for folks who aren't celebrities. (Of course, laws in CO might also greatly differ from CA law.)









Colorado attorney calls Will Smith slap double standard


It’s all anyone’s talking about —Will Smith slapping Chris Rock at the Academy Awards — but a local attorney has something to say when it comes to her cases here in Colorado.




kdvr.com







> Attorney Sarah Schielke shared a tweet Sunday night highlighting what she calls a double standard with the nationally broadcasted Oscar moment. She compared Will Smith getting away with slapping Chris Rock on television to a client of hers who spent days in jail for throwing a spouse’s phone at a wall during an argument.
> 
> “I would not recommend that anybody who is not Will Smith attempt what Will Smith did here in Colorado because it would not go well for them,” Schielke said.
> 
> Schielke said if you are not a celebrity and get caught on camera slapping someone in the Centennial state, there’s a good chance you’ll face third-degree assault charges, a class 1 misdemeanor punishable with 6 to 24 months in jail.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

brianp6621 said:


> I’m baffled by why people don’t think Wil could have laughed at it and also been genuinely offended. 1 celebrities who know they will be on camera (especially when you’re up for one of the biggest awards and seated at the very front table) are basically programmed to laugh/look good so when the camera cuts to them they show a good shot/reaction. Second I have just gone along with laughing with jokes before while my brain processes them and then I might actually have a different take/reaction after a few seconds.
> Both or either of these things to me can easily explain Wil’s quick demeanor change.


I think it's more likely that Will initially thought the joke was funny, but then caught a glimpse of Jada's reaction to it and realized she was gonna be PISSED if he didn't do something to defend her.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar has a really good take on the subject, encapsulating lots of what I've heard and agree with.









Will Smith Did a Bad, Bad Thing


Slapping Chris Rock was also a blow to men, women, the entertainment industry, and the Black community.




kareem.substack.com


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

eddyj said:


> Not defending the slap at all, but Chris definitely knew, it was not a secret at all, she has discussed it publicly.
> 
> Also: What’s Behind the Will Smith and Chris Rock Feud?
> 
> Having said that, there is a huge gap between a tasteless joke and battery.


I didn’t know.


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think it's more likely that Will initially thought the joke was funny, but then caught a glimpse of Jada's reaction to it and realized she was gonna be PISSED if he didn't do something to defend her.


Very possibly, but the other possibilities are valid also. It's equally probable he really didn't care for the taste of the joke and the appearance of laughing was just typical hollywood putting on a face for the cameras.


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

Tony_T said:


> I didn’t know.


Many didn't so its silly to use that as a reason Chris HAD to know. In fact I'm constantly surprised when an A list star talks about having just met for the first time another A list star that I assumed worked together, lived next door to each other, etc. Hollywood is still decently sized enough that its still entirely plausible that Chris didn't know about Jada's condition.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

kdmorse said:


> Do we actually know who wrote the joke? I've seen it repeatedly stated that Chris Rock didn't write it, AA jokewriters wrote it, and he was just reading it. (Although you can't trust anything you read on the internet these days). Although I'd say he was bombing and he knew it, so he tried to draw the joke out for a second laugh, and that didn't help matters.
> 
> And I don't agree with this notion that everyone knows about Jada's condition, or that there's any reason for Chris Rock to have known. Yes, she's been very public about it, but that doesn't mean everyone on the planet is glued to he twitter feed or various appearances where she's talked about it. Lots of people are very public about a lot of things, that nobody knows or cares about. I mean, Kim Kardashian is very public about oh I don't give a fig about anything worth finishing this sentence. I don't think whomever wrote the jokes did a lot of research on whomever they were picking on.
> 
> ...


I read in the NYT that the Academy said that the joke was not in the (approved) script and was ad-libbed. Sort of makes sense (to me), as while they do know in advance the seating, and the appearance of the guests, I don’t think writers do that level of work for a small joke. Rock looking into the audience and ad-libbing makes more sense (to me)


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Let's no forget about the fact that Jada is an actress. It's entirely possible she had shaved her head for a role. Is Rock supposed to be some kind of mind reader?


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Just go back and read the link I posted on Ricky Gervais. He went after spouses, children, legal issues, transgender, etc. Yes it was the Golden Globes but it was on TV to an international audience and nobody attacked or cancelled him and he did it year after year. Chris Rock was just following his lead.


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## Jim1348 (Jan 3, 2015)

My former boss posted this today:

So… just a little perspective. Innocent people in the Ukraine are being killed every day, displaced from their homes, watching their homeland being destroyed and we are debating the implications of one person slapping another person…


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## Hcour (Dec 24, 2007)

Jim1348 said:


> My former boss post this today:
> 
> So… just a little perspective. Innocent people in the Ukraine are being killed every day, displaced from their homes, watching their homeland being destroyed and we are debating the implications of one person slapping another person…


Silly comment. Why does it have to be either/or? Both can be discussed perfectly legitimately. We can also discuss the Final Four, movies, politics and any darn thing else. Does he think there's a bandwidth shortage?


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Interesting ratings note. Viewership had been tailing off during the broadcast, and predictably jumped following Smith's attack on Rock, hitting a late-show peak for Smith's Best Actor acceptance speech. But the largest audience of the night overall came earlier, during Troy Kotsur's Best Supporting Actor acceptance speech. I find that heartening for some reason.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

pdhenry said:


> Kareem Abdul-Jabbar has a really good take on the subject, encapsulating lots of what I've heard and agree with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was an awesome article. And I too had no idea she has alopecia. I don't follow them or any a-list celebrities.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Has there been any official response from Rock, or is he laying low?


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

I have NOT read the whole thread, and this was probably covered, but I thought it was interesting that Scorsese thanked Puzo.. when he really thought that the original book was schlocky and he didn't want to do it. (Only did it because his company was going to go out of business otherwise.)


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

gweempose said:


> Has there been any official response from Rock, or is he laying low?


No comment so far. There's this:








Chris Rock apology for Oscars joke is fake


CLAIM: Comedian Chris Rock issued a public apology for his joke about actress Jada Pinkett Smith’s shaved head at the Academy Awards, saying he “crossed a line that I shouldn’t have and paid the enormous price of my reputation as a renown comedian.”




apnews.com


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

mattack said:


> I have NOT read the whole thread, and this was probably covered, but I thought it was interesting that *Scorsese* thanked Puzo.. when he really thought that the original book was schlocky and he didn't want to do it. (Only did it because his company was going to go out of business otherwise.)


You mean Coppola no?


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

mattack said:


> I have NOT read the whole thread, and this was probably covered, but I thought it was interesting that Scorsese thanked Puzo.. when he really thought that the original book was schlocky and he didn't want to do it. (Only did it because his company was going to go out of business otherwise.)


That's the second time I've seen your post about Scorsese. Did he have something to do with the Godfather?


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

gweempose said:


> Has there been any official response from Rock, or is he laying low?


He has shows in Boston starting tomorrow.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

I find it interesting that a lot of the people online who think that it's no big deal to crack a joke about her appearance or that it doesn't really matter because she looks good bald anyway, are men.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

(deleted)


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

I can only surmise that the deleted comment was a response to me.

I have seen it all over Facebook and Twitter and wherever today. While I am not saying that it’s no big deal for men to lose their hair, it is somewhat more accepted in society and understood that as men age, they often lose hair. There is still a lot of stigma about hair loss in women.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

<edited to delete. Is there no delete button anymore?>


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

eddyj said:


> I've never understood this pressing charges thing. I get that if the only witness/victim refuses to testify, they would not proceed with charges. But something that happened in front of millions of people? Why do they need the victim to press charges? Police can arrest you and you can be charged for things nobody presses charges for.


Here's a defense attorney explaining why it would be difficult to prosecute without Rock's cooperation:






In short, it boils down to needing to legally prove that Rock did not consent to the contact. Even though it might seem obvious to us, the prosecution needs to demonstrate it in court. And without Rock testifying to that fact, this is actually quite difficult, particularly given that the unprecedented nature of what happened probably made most people initially think it was a bit.


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

laria said:


> I find it interesting that a lot of the people online who think that it's no big deal to crack a joke about her appearance or that it doesn't really matter because she looks good bald anyway, are men.


I don’t agree that what you postulate is true (I’ve seen plenty of women saying it’s ok, and men saying it was in poor taste) but then again it doesn’t really matter if the joke was ok/in poor taste etc.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

I didn’t watch the show so I have no idea what happened in it other than The Incident.

Edit: That was a response to a deleted post.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

brianp6621 said:


> I don’t agree that what you postulate is true (I’ve seen plenty of women saying it’s ok, and men saying it was in poor taste) but then again it doesn’t really matter if the joke was ok/in poor taste etc.


I am willing to be wrong and perhaps I am overly sensitive about it because I am have experienced gradually thinning hair as I age, and it is a huge source of stress, because it’s just not something that is commonly talked about or seen as a normal part of life for women.

Also, I am not in any way saying what Will Smith did was justified or anything. I think that we can have feelings about the joke being in poor taste without also thinking that assaulting someone for it is ok.


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

laria said:


> I am willing to be wrong and perhaps I am overly sensitive about it because I am have experienced gradually thinning hair as I age, and it is a huge source of stress, because it’s just not something that is commonly talked about or seen as a normal part of life for women.
> 
> Also, I am not in any way saying what Will Smith did was justified or anything. I think that we can have feelings about the joke being in poor taste without also thinking that assaulting someone for it is ok.


100% agree but the issue I have is if Will had not done what he did, 99.999% of us wouldn’t be discussing if the joke was in poor taste or not. It wasn’t so egregious as to have been its own issue/story but is being used as a backdrop/partial explanation for Will’s actions. This takes some focus away from the real issue here.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

brianp6621 said:


> 100% agree but the issue I have is if Will had not done what he did, 99.999% of us wouldn’t be discussing if the joke was in poor taste or not. It wasn’t so egregious as to have been its own issue/story but is being used as a backdrop/partial explanation for Will’s actions. This takes some focus away from the real issue here.


I agree with that… many people would likely not have even known about it, including me, because they didn’t even see the show.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

A good point I saw today. People defending Chris Rock say that maybe he did not know she had Alopecia. But when a woman goes bald, changes are very high that it is cancer/chemo. Alopecia and "style" are WAY less likely. So if he did not know she had Alopecia, then he did not know if she had cancer either. So he was making a bald joke about a possible cancer victim? The "ignorance" defense does not look so good.

And to reiterate, I am not defending Wil Smith. He should have been ejected immediately and charged.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

laria said:


> I am willing to be wrong and perhaps I am overly sensitive about it because I am have experienced gradually thinning hair as I age, and it is a huge source of stress, because it’s just not something that is commonly talked about or seen as a normal part of life for women.


The gist of my deleted comment* was that men don't like losing their hair any more than women do (speaking from experience). Somehow baldness remains an acceptable target for jokes. It hurts our feelings, too.

*Deleted because I didn't want to come across as calling you out, which was not (and is not) my intent.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

To be fair, men losing hair is common and considered "normal". Just like getting grey hair is normal. Not everyone gees bald or gray, but it is not unusual. Women going bald is unusual, and when it happens, it is often associated with Cancer or other diseases (like Alopecia). And hair on women is socially much more important than hair on men. Just look at how much is spent on hair by women vs. men.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

_”Jada Pinkett Smith on Tuesday appeared to reference the incident at Sunday night's Oscars that shook the world stage and launched heated debates about ableism, Black hair, and toxic masculinity.

"This is a season for healing," the (Instagram) message, splashed across a pale pink background, read. "I'm here for it."

This is the first public statement made by the actress and host of the popular "Red Table Talk" since her husband, Oscar-winning actor Will Smith, slapped Chris Rock for a joke the award show presenter had made about Pinkett Smith's hair on Sunday night.”_


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

eddyj said:


> To be fair, men losing hair is common and considered "normal". Just like getting grey hair is normal. Not everyone gees bald or gray, but it is not unusual. Women going bald is unusual, and when it happens, it is often associated with Cancer or other diseases (like Alopecia). And hair on women is socially much more important than hair on men. Just look at how much is spent on hair by women vs. men.


No doubt...I am bald (since my early 20s) and did have a bit of self-esteem issues early on. Then shaving your head became very common (fashionable?) in the 90s. So i've embraced my baldness for 30 yrs now LOL 

My wife's hair is thinning and it really bother her. Especially when she sees her hair on the tub after a shower. She still has a full head of hair. But there are some women that shave their heads as a fashion statement (Sinead O'Connor, Danai Gurira (the Walking Dead, Black panther) and maybe, just maybe Rock thought that was Jada decided to do. He also made a documentary about black women and their hair:








Good Hair (2009) - IMDb


Good Hair: Directed by Jeff Stilson. With Tanya Crumel, Kevin Kirk, Jason Griggers, Maya Angelou. Chris Rock explores the wonders of African-American hairstyles.




www.imdb.com


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

eddyj said:


> A good point I saw today. People defending Chris Rock say that maybe he did not know she had Alopecia. But when a woman goes bald, changes are very high that it is cancer/chemo. Alopecia and "style" are WAY less likely. So if he did not know she had Alopecia, then he did not know if she had cancer either. So he was making a bald joke about a possible cancer victim? The "ignorance" defense does not look so good.
> 
> And to reiterate, I am not defending Wil Smith. He should have been ejected immediately and charged.


Except that she has had close cropped hair in the past as a fashion statement. I recognize her as a woman who wears her hair short for a couple of decades and she wasn’t diagnosed until 2018. Many woman wear their hair short for a reason. She is NOT bald. Her hair is short. Her alopecia supposedly only affects part of her scalp.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

gossamer88 said:


> just maybe Rock thought that was Jada decided to do


What if it had been cancer? Would that have been OK? If he did not know, this would be the most likely cause. So either he did know it was a medical condition, and decided to do it anyway, or he did not know, and decided to do it anyway without bothering to find out if it was a medical condition. Either way, not a good look.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

eddyj said:


> What if it had been cancer? Would that have been OK? If he did not know, this would be the most likely cause. So either he did know it was a medical condition, and decided to do it anyway, or he did not know, and decided to do it anyway without bothering to find out if it was a medical condition. Either way, not a good look.


I never said it was ok.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> Except that she has had close cropped hair in the past as a fashion statement. I recognize her as a woman who wears her hair short for a couple of decades and she wasn’t diagnosed until 2018. Many woman wear their hair short for a reason. She is NOT bald. Her hair is short. Her alopecia supposedly only affects part of her scalp.


Her hair is closed cropped because it's starting to grow back in. It was shaved down completely in December, and there's pictures of her at earlier awards shows where she did not have as much growth. I have no idea exactly where she is bald, only that she has said she decided to shave it because it was getting harder to disguise the bald patches. She has never claimed to be completely bald from the condition... maybe she doesn't want the maintenance of shaving it smooth all the time. 

While conditions like Alopecia are somewhat rare, it is not uncommon for women to experience hair loss and thinning hair as they age or go through periods like postpartum or weight loss and it can be a real source of stress trying to style your hair in ways that look attractive. I still have a full head of hair, but there are ways I used to part my hair that I just can't/don't want to anymore because the part shows a lot more scalp than it used to 10-15 years ago. And like I said before, I'm not saying that men individually do not experience self esteem issues from hair loss, but it is considered normal and even fashionable these days by society for men in general to be bald. That's not the case for women... or the reference to G.I. Jane wouldn't have even come up.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

So if Rock did tell a bad, insensitive joke, had he not been assaulted by her husband, Jada would have had the opportunity to call him out on this (the next day), but instead, Will made her look like a damsel in distress, unable to defend herself, (and that is not Jada), but Will took that away from her.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar’s commentary (link provided here yesterday) was the best I’ve read on this affair


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

eddyj said:


> A good point I saw today. People defending Chris Rock say that maybe he did not know she had Alopecia. But when a woman goes bald, changes are very high that it is cancer/chemo. Alopecia and "style" are WAY less likely. So if he did not know she had Alopecia, then he did not know if she had cancer either. So he was making a bald joke about a possible cancer victim? The "ignorance" defense does not look so good.


But we have to keep in mind that this is Hollywood. There is a much higher chance of a famous actress shaving their head to make a fashion statement than your typical American woman. That being said, I agree with your point, and if there is one thing to take away from this incident it's that we should probably never assume anything when it comes to a person's appearance.


----------



## connie_w (Jan 10, 2015)

There are some men who may be sensitive about hair loss but there are a huge number of men who purposely shave their heads because it's less they have to care for on a daily basis or because they just like the look. There a some women who do the same. Not nearly as many, but some women want that exotic look it can impart. It's kind of trendy for both men and women. 

I don't believe for one second that Chris Rock intended that line as a hurtful insult. He didn't say she looked bad or anything to suggest she looked bad. However, it was a tease that by her expression she did not like, for whatever reason. Heck she was in an interview just recently where she out and out stated she didn't care what people thought of her shaven head look, because she liked it.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Making fun of someone for their looks is a bad idea.

Slapping someone for an insult (perceived or real) is a much worse idea.


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

eddyj said:


> Making fun of someone for their looks is a bad idea.
> 
> Slapping someone for an insult (perceived or real) is a much worse idea.


However there is also the perspective that the joke was actually in reference to and/or drawing a comparison to an amazingly strong fictional female character that shaved her head on purpose for reasons of gender equality. That isn't a particular bad or negative comparison to draw. Yes he was drawing attention to her being bald but her being in the front row seated next to a major actor and award nominee at a globally televised show so that cat was sorta out of the bag. It isn't like he said she was as bald as a bowling ball or some such.

Edit.
I will clarify, I do feel if he knew of the medical issue the joke was in poor taste, but even then it was pretty mild, without the context of the illness, the joke is WELL within bounds for typical roast/comedic material. There were worse things said to/about Jada AT that event.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

laria said:


> Her hair is closed cropped because it's starting to grow back in. It was shaved down completely in December, and there's pictures of her at earlier awards shows where she did not have as much growth. I have no idea exactly where she is bald, only that she has said she decided to shave it because it was getting harder to disguise the bald patches. She has never claimed to be completely bald from the condition... maybe she doesn't want the maintenance of shaving it smooth all the time.
> 
> While conditions like Alopecia are somewhat rare, it is not uncommon for women to experience hair loss and thinning hair as they age or go through periods like postpartum or weight loss and it can be a real source of stress trying to style your hair in ways that look attractive. I still have a full head of hair, but there are ways I used to part my hair that I just can't/don't want to anymore because the part shows a lot more scalp than it used to 10-15 years ago. And like I said before, I'm not saying that men individually do not experience self esteem issues from hair loss, but it is considered normal and even fashionable these days by society for men in general to be bald. That's not the case for women... or the reference to G.I. Jane wouldn't have even come up.


It has been fashionable for women to be close cropped or bald also. INCLUDING Jada.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Tony_T said:


> So if Rock did tell a bad, insensitive joke, had he not been assaulted by her husband, Jada would have had the opportunity to call him out on this (the next day), but instead, Will made her look like a damsel in distress, unable to defend herself, (and that is not Jada), but Will took that away from her.
> 
> Kareem Abdul-Jabbar’s commentary (link provided here yesterday) was the best I’ve read on this affair


Exactly. 

Funny she still hasn’t done that. Use this as a PSA for alopecia. 

She still could have.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

She can‘t now. It would look like she is defending her husband (ironic?)
She has posted on Instagram (sort of) referring to the incident (_"This is a season for healing," "I'm here for it."_)


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

All I have to add is...

YAY CODA!


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

IMO alopecia would be more distressing than male pattern baldness, regardless of one's gender.


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

Quite frankly..."GI Jane" did not sound like he was making fun of her but "WOW that looks great!" 

No way of knowing what what was in Chris Rock's mind, but I did not take it as an insult, but as a compliment. Now if he knew about her struggles with the disease, totally different story. But nothing excuses Will Smith's action based on the line out of Rock's mouth.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Just noticed that GI Jane was on BBC America Sunday.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Academy Begins Disciplinary Proceedings Against Will Smith, Says He Refused to Leave Ceremony


The actor could face suspension, expulsion or other sanctions under the Academy’s Standards of Conduct for slapping Chris Rock onstage at the Oscars, according to a statement issued after a board of governors meeting.




www.hollywoodreporter.com


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

eddyj said:


> Making fun of someone for their looks is a bad idea.
> 
> Slapping someone for an insult (perceived or real) is a much worse idea.


The very worst idea of all is that the person assaulting someone else live on national TV was allowed to sit back down in his seat and enjoy the rest of the show, and even allowed to receive an award in person and be applauded by his peers.

I see the Academy is saying they did ask him to leave and he refused... to me it sounds like ex post facto CYA talk but even if true there's no way he should have been allowed to stay, and there's definitely no way they have to give him his Oscar live on the show.


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

madscientist said:


> The very worst idea of all is that the person assaulting someone else live on national TV was allowed to sit back down in his seat and enjoy the rest of the show, and even allowed to receive an award in person and be applauded by his peers.
> 
> I see the Academy is saying they did ask him to leave and he refused... to me it sounds like ex post facto CYA talk but even if true there's no way he should have been allowed to stay, and there's definitely no way they have to give him his Oscar live on the show.


It's good if they did actually ask him to leave. It's very bad however that if they did ask, that is was a request and not a command, and that they accepted his "No"


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## Hcour (Dec 24, 2007)

Ticket prices for Chris Rock's current comedy tour have gone through the roof. Like, 5 or 6 times what they were. He's going to get a nice career boost out of this, at least for a while.

Will Smith, probably not so much.


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## connie_w (Jan 10, 2015)

Hcour said:


> Ticket prices for Chris Rock's current comedy tour have gone through the roof. Like, 5 or 6 times what they were. He's going to get a nice career boost out of this, at least for a while.
> 
> Will Smith, probably not so much.


Oh yeah, I saw that the tickets went from about $45 to $700 each. Whoa!


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## Hcour (Dec 24, 2007)

connie_w said:


> Oh yeah, I saw that the tickets went from about $45 to $700 each. Whoa!


Crimeny. Didn't realize it was that much. Wowsa.


----------



## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

madscientist said:


> The very worst idea of all is that the person assaulting someone else live on national TV was allowed to sit back down in his seat and enjoy the rest of the show, and even allowed to receive an award in person and be applauded by his peers.


Yeah. Why he was not removed after being asked is puzzling, at best. As to the applause, didn't Polanski get a standing ovation? So there is a history of having no shame.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

brianp6621 said:


> It's good if they did actually ask him to leave. It's very bad however that if they did ask, that is was a request and not a command, and that they accepted his "No"


I'm sure the Academy was in a very tough spot, because the event is being broadcast live all over the world, and if Will Smith refuses to leave and they then have to get security/police to come forcibly remove him, that may or may not be able to be accomplished during a commercial break. The last thing the Academy wants to be broadcast all over the world is an A-List star being forcibly removed from an Academy function. Even if they could do it during a commercial break, there would have been dozens, if not hundreds, of cell phone videos of the event from inside the theater if police came and forcibly removed him. Just a lose/lose situation all around for the Academy.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I'm sure the Academy was in a very tough spot, because the event is being broadcast live all over the world, and if Will Smith refuses to leave and they then have to get security/police to come forcibly remove him, that may or may not be able to be accomplished during a commercial break. The last thing the Academy wants to be broadcast all over the world is an A-List star being forcibly removed from an Academy function. Even if they could do it during a commercial break, there would have been dozens, if not hundreds, of cell phone videos of the event from inside the theater if police came and forcibly removed him. Just a lose/lose situation all around for the Academy.


Not only that - They probably knew he was going to win best actor shortly there after. I could see the presenter saying we accept this on Will's behalf as he is being dragged off. Now they should have had the balls to give it to the next in line but they probably did not know those numbers and that may have been just as controversial.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)




----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

zalusky said:


> Not only that - They probably knew he was going to win best actor shortly there after. I could see the presenter saying we accept this on Will's behalf as he is being dragged off. Now they should have had the balls to give it to the next in line but they probably did not know those numbers and that may have been just as controversial.


I'm not sure who would have officially known that Smith was about to win, other than the accountants. But Smith was a huge favorite to win, so anyone in the Academy leadership would have known that it was extremely likely Smith was about to win.

But I don't agree they should have changed the winner of the award on the fly like that. That's the type of decision that needs to be made in the light of day after much deliberation by everyone involved.

They should have escorted Smith out and then just accepted the award on his behalf just like they do for any other winner that is not in attendance. Or done what Wanda Sykes wanted to do:



> Sykes also shared the joke she would have made, had Smith been escorted out of Hollywood’s Dolby Theatre: “I wanted to be able to run out after he won and say, ‘Uh, unfortunately, Will couldn’t be here tonight.'”


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

He should get a lifetime ban for attendance (but should be eligible for nomination)


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

__





‘CODA’ Being Re-Released In Theaters With Open Captions After Best Picture Oscar Win






www.msn.com





In non-Will Smith news, CODA is getting another limited theatrical run this weekend. I've watched it at home a couple of times (and the ending, uh, more than a couple of times), but I may go see this in the theater again anyway.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

NYT Will Smith Refused to Leave Oscars After Slap, Academy Says
“LOS ANGELES — The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences said Wednesday that the actor Will Smith was asked to leave the Oscars ceremony after he slapped Chris Rock onstage Sunday night, but that the actor refused to go.”

and…
NYT: Chris Rock Says He’s ‘Still Kind of Processing’ Slap by Will Smith
“BOSTON — “How was your weekend?” Chris Rock asked at a sold-out comedy show here, making his first public comments since the actor Will Smith slapped him Sunday night on the stage, and the live global broadcast, of the Academy Awards.
“I’m still kind of processing what happened,” Mr. Rock said, briefly addressing the topic everyone was talking about. He promised to discuss it in greater depth later. “It’ll be serious, it’ll be funny, but I’d love to — I’m going to tell some jokes.”

”Mr. Rock’s entrance was met with an immediate standing ovation, and after audience members took their seats, they stood up again, prompting the comedian to try to quiet them so he could start.
“Let me do a show y’all,” he said. “Y’all got me all misty.”
He addressed the elephant in the room, noting that he did not have a lot to say about what happened. “So if you came to hear that, I had like a whole show I wrote before this weekend,” he said.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Just to remind, Rock is not making one more cent of money on his shows than he did before. All that upsell in ticket prices is going to scalpers.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Scalpers, Ticketmaster and StubHub.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Yeah, the local news was all over his shows last night. Apparently the lines were so long they had to delay the start, and he got HUGE standing O's at least three times where he had to ask people to sit down so he could continue. He didn't say much, other than that he was not really ready to talk about it yet but wants to in the future. He said "I had a whole show ready before this weekend, so I'm going to do that if it's OK".


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Tony_T said:


> Scalpers, Ticketmaster and StubHub.


I mean... they're all basically the same in my book. See recent John Oliver


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

madscientist said:


> See recent John Oliver


And according to Oliver, artists often get a piece of the Ticketmaster resale action.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Since these tickets were already sold (with Ticketmaster already scalping), the resales for this show went to ticketholders who saw an opportunity (with Ticketmaster and StubHub getting hefty fees, as that’s were most resales occur).
“F” Ticketmaster and StubHub


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

pdhenry said:


> And according to Oliver, artists often get a piece of the Ticketmaster resale action.


Only (hefty) fees on customer resale. For original sales to the public, some ( most?) artists allot blocks to Ticketmaster that the artist get a piece.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

MScottC said:


> Quite frankly..."GI Jane" did not sound like he was making fun of her but "WOW that looks great!"
> 
> No way of knowing what what was in Chris Rock's mind, but I did not take it as an insult, but as a compliment. Now if he knew about her struggles with the disease, totally different story. But nothing excuses Will Smith's action based on the line out of Rock's mouth.


Nah. Chris knew what he was saying was out of line. He knew because did a documentary on black hair because of his black daughters (according to him). It is not something non-blacks can readily understand. 

That said, Will had no right to assault Chris. His punishment should be severe. In addition to criminal accountability, he needs to be banned from attending the Oscars for at minimum 20 years. 

These ladies comedically expressed it best in this podcast. 




__





We Were All Assaulted - Ep 254 — Frangela: The Final Word — Overcast







overcast.fm


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

Beryl said:


> Nah. Chris knew what he was saying was out of line. He knew because did a documentary on black hair because of his black daughters (according to him). It is not something non-blacks can readily understand.
> 
> That said, Will had no right to assault Chris. His punishment should be severe. In addition to criminal accountability, he needs to be banned from attending the Oscars for at minimum 20 years.
> 
> ...


Fair enough regarding your assumption Rock knew what he was saying. If he did, his comments were out of line. Based on what most of us know (an assumption on my part) there's a chance he didn't know, but I'll take your information as valid. 

I agree with the second part of your comment completely. There should never be room for any violence of any sort except as a defense for the same. 

I'm one who abhors the violent sports such as boxing, wrestling, MMA, etc. and fighting in the mainstream sports that seem to encourage fighting.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

MScottC said:


> Fair enough regarding your assumption Rock knew what he was saying. If he did, his comments were out of line. Based on what most of us know (an assumption on my part) there's a chance he didn't know, but I'll take your information as valid.
> 
> I agree with the second part of your comment completely. There should never be room for any violence of any sort except as a defense for the same.
> 
> I'm one who abhors the violent sports such as boxing, wrestling, MMA, etc. and fighting in the mainstream sports that seem to encourage fighting.


I interpreted it as even if he didn’t necessarily know about her specific illness, he knew that making a comment about a black woman’s hair is different.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

If we were to list bad or inappropriate jokes by Stand Up Comics, this thread would be at 1,000+ pages (a list of audience members who physically attack a comedian would be much shorter 😁)


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

Tony_T said:


> NYT Will Smith Refused to Leave Oscars After Slap, Academy Says
> “LOS ANGELES — The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences said Wednesday that the actor Will Smith was asked to leave the Oscars ceremony after he slapped Chris Rock onstage Sunday night, but that the actor refused to go.”


Would there not have been witnesses to this?


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think it's more likely that Will initially thought the joke was funny, but then caught a glimpse of Jada's reaction to it and realized she was gonna be PISSED if he didn't do something to defend her.


Here's my theory. Obviously if this was right we would have heard by now.

The joke was written for Chris, not ad-libbed as someone said. Writer one says to writer two, "Oh, no. If he says that about Jada, then Will is NOT going to be happy. We're going to be hearing about it." Writer two says to writer one, "It's okay. We'll get someone to tell Will in advance." So someone who deals with the audience, such as seat fillers, tells Will when Jada isn't around. Will says it's funny, but if Jada doesn't like it he's going to have to do something. The person who talked to Will talks to the director and the producer but doesn't tell Chris, comes back to Will and hands him a page signed by the people in charge saying, "If you see that you-know-who doesn't like you-know-what, go up on stage and do a Three Stooges style slap and then curse at him. That'll make it a night to remember and get people talking about the Oscars."


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

HarleyRandom said:


> Here's my theory. Obviously if this was right we would have heard by now.
> 
> The joke was written for Chris, not ad-libbed as someone said. Writer one says to writer two, "Oh, no. If he says that about Jada, then Will is NOT going to be happy. We're going to be hearing about it." Writer two says to writer one, "It's okay. We'll get someone to tell Will in advance." So someone who deals with the audience, such as seat fillers, tells Will when Jada isn't around. Will says it's funny, but if Jada doesn't like it he's going to have to do something. The person who talked to Will talks to the director and the producer but doesn't tell Chris, comes back to Will and hands him a page signed by the people in charge saying, "If you see that you-know-who doesn't like you-know-what, go up on stage and do a Three Stooges style slap and then curse at him. That'll make it a night to remember and get people talking about the Oscars."


WTF?!? What world do you live in?


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

That’s more unbelievable than what actually happened!


----------



## Generic (Dec 27, 2005)

Another wrinkle in this saga.

Academy Lied About Asking Will Smith to Leave Oscars, Sources


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> WTF?!? What world do you live in?


I'll have what he's having


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

JohnB1000 said:


> That's the second time I've seen your post about Scorsese. Did he have something to do with the Godfather?


I remembered the wrong guy's name.. IIRC, both of them were on stage at the Academy Awards at the same time??


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

cmontyburns said:


> That’s more unbelievable than what actually happened!


And if it had been a stunt how do you think it would have happened?

Looking back, Chris reacted before the slap like he knew, but then I don't know how he would have reacted if he didn't.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

HarleyRandom said:


> And if it had been a stunt how do you think it would have happened?
> 
> Looking back, Chris reacted before the slap like he knew, but then I don't know how he would have reacted if he didn't.


Like he knew what. Watch this Body Language analysis video:


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

zalusky said:


> Like he knew what. Watch this Body Language analysis video:


He said, "Uh-oh!" in a manner that suggested what Will was doing was perfectly natural. At least that's how it sounded to me.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

That video play-by-play was more painful than being slapped by Smith 😁


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

If it was staged, Smith and the Academy sure are willing to take an awful lot of heat for it, and for an awfully long time.

I know the old saying about no such thing as bad publicity, but ask Ryan Adams for his thoughts on that.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

HarleyRandom said:


> And if it had been a stunt how do you think it would have happened?


It never would have been a stunt. "Hey, let's do a bit where we make fun of someone's autoimmune disorder." Nope.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

mattack said:


> I remembered the wrong guy's name.. IIRC, both of them were on stage at the Academy Awards at the same time??


They were both on stage at the Academy Awards at the same time when? Certainly not this year.


cmontyburns said:


> It never would have been a stunt. "Hey, let's do a bit where we make fun of someone's autoimmune disorder." Nope.


Not to mention, even if the joke had nothing to do with a disease, why would Will Smith ever want to participate in a stunt that made him look like a complete a-hole?


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

cmontyburns said:


> It never would have been a stunt. "Hey, let's do a bit where we make fun of someone's autoimmune disorder." Nope.


No, I'm saying this is what could have happened if Jada did not have alopecia or cancer or anything but just decided she wanted a shaved head.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

NYT: Oscars Producer Did Not Want Will Smith Physically Removed After Slap

”Will Packer, the lead producer of the Oscars telecast that was thrown into upheaval after the actor Will Smith went onstage and slapped the comedian Chris Rock, said Friday that after Mr. Smith had been asked to leave the ceremony, he urged the Academy leadership not to “physically remove” him from the theater in the middle of the live broadcast.”


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Will Smith resigns from the Academy. 



https://news.yahoo.com/smith-resigns-academy-over-chris-224558418.html


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Probably the best move. Otherwise he puts himself in a position of waiting for and then being punished (not great for his ego), which wait keeps the story alive while the Academy deliberates (not great for his image), and causes him to put the Academy in a bad spot because large swaths would be unhappy no matter what they decided (not great for the Academy and makes him look like a d**k again).

ETA: Posted before doing some reading. See follow-up post below.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

They should still be able to ban him for life (from attending and presenting, not from being nominated)


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

So what are the consequences of resigning? I assume that makes him ineligible for future Oscars? Anything else?


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Back to the actual Oscars -- I haven't been too interested in the awards the last few years, but for whatever reason (having seen several of the movies helps, go figure) this year I was more into them. So I knew that CODA had stormed its way to at least co-front-runner status with The Power of the Dog by the time of Oscar week. This was primarily due to its Best Ensemble win at the Screen Actors Guild awards two weeks prior, and also its Best Picture win at the Producers Guild Awards the week before. The latter was considered an especially important bellwether because it is the only pre-Oscars award that is determined by ranked-choice balloting -- that is, voters have to rank the nominees from most to least favorite, and the winner is the movie with the largest number of high votes -- which is how the Academy decides Best Picture. (All other Oscars are decided by simple majority voting.)

Anyway, come time for the award, it felt like the temperature of the ceremony was that CODA would win, but I was prepared to be surprised. Apparently veteran Oscar watchers knew who the winner was going to be by that point, basically with full certainty. I had bookmarked a few post-Oscar stories to read later, which I am now catching up on. This one explains some logic I had not considered:

_On Sunday, CODA and The Power of the Dog first came head-to-head early in the night when CODA’s Troy Kotsur won the best supporting actor prize over The Power of the Dog’s Jesse Plemons and Kodi Smit-McPhee. But I think most of us who study this stuff knew that the best picture race was over the minute that CODA beat The Power of the Dog to win the best adapted screenplay Oscar. If the screenplay of CODA could beat the screenplay of The Power of the Dog on a straight vote, the film CODA could surely beat the film The Power of the Dogon a preferential ballot._

I hadn't thought about things that way but it makes sense. That sort of logic probably affects how I'll watch the ceremony going forward, at least if there is more than one clear favorite. Anyway, I thought it was an interesting bit of insider analysis on how this stuff works.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Amnesia said:


> So what are the consequences of resigning? I assume that makes him ineligible for future Oscars? Anything else?


No -- I posted before reading up. It just makes him ineligible to vote in the future. He's still eligible to be nominated and win, attend the ceremony, etc. So the Academy likely still will have to discipline him in some way.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

cmontyburns said:


> No -- I posted before reading up. It just makes him ineligible to vote in the future. He's still eligible to be nominated and win, attend the ceremony, etc. So the Academy likely still will have to discipline him in some way.


So non members can be nominated then?


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

zalusky said:


> So non members can be nominated then?


Yes


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

I think it's interesting that the best picture, best director, best actress, and best actor awards went to four different films. I'm guessing the winner for best picture usually wins one of the other three as well.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Amnesia said:


> So what are the consequences of resigning? I assume that makes him ineligible for future Oscars? Anything else?


From the NYT:
”Now that he has resigned, Mr. Smith will no longer have access to academy screenings and events. He will also not be able to vote in the Academy Awards. However, he could still be nominated for an award, since being a member is not a requirement for eligibility.”


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Is Jada a member of the Academy? If so, can he still attend screenings and events as her guest?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

gweempose said:


> I think it's interesting that the best picture, best director, best actress, and best actor awards went to four different films. *I'm guessing the winner for best picture usually wins one of the other three as well.*


I think it happens more often than you'd expect. Just looking back at a few previous Oscars, it happened in:
2019: Best Picture: Green Book; Director: Alfonso Cuaron for Roma; Actor: Rami Malek for Bohemian Rhapsody; Actress: Olivia Colman for The Favourite
2017: Best Picture: Moonlight; Director: Damian Chazelle for La La Land; Actor: Casey Affleck for Manchester by the Sea; Actress: Emma Stone for La La Land
2016: Best Picture: Spotlight; Director: Alejandro Inarritu for The Revenant; Actor: Leonardo DiCaprio for The Revenant; Actress: Brie Larson for Room
2014: Best Picture: 12 Years a Slave; Director: Alfonso Cuaron for Gravity; Actor: Matthew McConaughey for Dallas Buyers Club; Actress: Cate Blanchett for Blue Jasmine
2013: Best Picture: Argo; Director: Ang Lee for Life of Pi; Actor: Daniel Day-Lewis for Lincoln; Actress: Jennifer Lawrence for Silver Linings Playbook
2006: Best Picture: Crash; Director: Ang Lee for Brokeback Mountain; Actor: Phillip Seymour Hoffman for Capote; Actress: Reese Witherspoon for Walk the Line

That's as far back as I went, but you see it's actually pretty common.

Edit: I actually went back farther and the Best Picture winners in 2003 (Chicago) and 1982 (Chariots of Fire) didn't win one of those other major awards. But it seems that it's been a recent trend for the BP winner to not also win one of the other major awards, because between 1970 and 2005, it only happened those two times.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

morac said:


> Will Smith resigns from the Academy.


Apologizing to the Academy didn't work. Apologizing to Chris Rock didn't work. This feels like a desperate "act of contrition" but it's not a sincere one. 

Smith really should be getting out in front of this. He's going get shunned if this occupies the news cycle any longer.




gweempose said:


> I think it's interesting that the best picture, best director, best actress, and best actor awards went to four different films.


Only three movies have won the "big five" Oscars; Best Picture, Best Actor, Best Actress, Best Screenplay and Best Director. Silence of the Lambs was the last in 1991.

Academy likes spreading the love when there isn't a dominant favorite.


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## zyzzx (Jan 22, 2002)

Best actor and actress from the same movie sounds like the hard one to accomplish. I didn’t look but it seems rare. Actor or actress, picture, and director seems much more common.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

DevdogAZ said:


> Is Jada a member of the Academy? If so, can he still attend screenings and events as her guest?


Another reason why he should get a lifetime ban.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think it happens more often than you'd expect. Just looking back at a few previous Oscars, it happened in:
> 2019: Best Picture: Green Book; Director: Alfonso Cuaron for Roma; Actor: Rami Malek for Bohemian Rhapsody; Actress: Olivia Colman for The Favourite
> 2017: Best Picture: Moonlight; Director: Damian Chazelle for La La Land; Actor: Casey Affleck for Manchester by the Sea; Actress: Emma Stone for La La Land
> 2016: Best Picture: Spotlight; Director: Alejandro Inarritu for The Revenant; Actor: Leonardo DiCaprio for The Revenant; Actress: Brie Larson for Room
> ...


Thanks for taking the time to look that up! Clearly, I was completely wrong, but this was my thinking. If a movie is good enough to win best picture, then logic would dictate that it must be due to an incredible directing job, or a stellar performance by one of its leads. My assumption was that the Academy would take this into account when voting, but I think that fails to acknowledge how modern studio campaigns work. The Oscar results are hardly a pure reflection of merit these days. Politics and many other factors come into play.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> Edit: I actually went back farther and the Best Picture winners in 2003 (Chicago) and 1982 (Chariots of Fire) didn't win one of those other major awards. But it seems that it's been a recent trend for the BP winner to not also win one of the other major awards, because between 1970 and 2005, it only happened those two times.





gweempose said:


> Thanks for taking the time to look that up! Clearly, I was completely wrong, but this was my thinking. If a movie is good enough to win best picture, then logic would dictate that it must be due to an incredible directing job, or a stellar performance by one of its leads. My assumption was that the Academy would take this into account when voting, but I think that fails to acknowledge how modern studio campaigns work. The Oscar results are hardly a pure reflection of merit these days. Politics and many other factors come into play.


This is because of the switch to ranked-choice voting for Best Picture, which began in 2013, I think. All other categories are a straight vote. The recent trend is pretty much entirely because of the voting method change.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

This is fun:









‘CODA’ Star Troy Kotsur Recreates Cinema’s Most Iconic Movie Scenes in American Sign Language


Academy Award winner Troy Kotsur is a man of many talents. But above all, he’s a lover of cinema and all its infinite splendor. On the cover of Variety this week discussing his historic best …




variety.com


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## Hcour (Dec 24, 2007)

Ricky Gervais:

People were going, ‘What would have happened if Ricky Gervais had been doing it [presenting an Oscar award)]?’” he continued. “Well, nothing, as I would not have made a joke about his wife’s hair. I would have made a joke about her boyfriend.”


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

gweempose said:


> Clearly, I was completely wrong, but this was my thinking. If a movie is good enough to win best picture, then logic would dictate that it must be due to an incredible directing job, or a stellar performance by one of its leads.


This is almost exactly opposite to my thinking. The Best Picture is one where everything comes together, but it doesn't necessarily have to be the best in any one area. I actually see the opposite happening -- Best Picture winners, or other favorites, tend to drag other categories up with them. For instance, this year, we saw Dune almost sweep the technical awards. But, is it really likely that it was the best in each of those categories? Or, did people just think "Dune looked and sounded great", and accordingly voted for each relevant category rather than really considering them individually?


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

A lot of people aren't interested in these awards shows because they haven't seen the movies. Every year, in many of the cases, I would like to and just haven't done it yet. But I'm cheap.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

HarleyRandom said:


> A lot of people aren't interested in these awards shows because they haven't seen the movies. Every year, in many of the cases, I would like to and just haven't done it yet. But I'm cheap.


In times past there was not a lot of competition and it was an event like the Super Bowl. People tuned into see the gowns and what famous people would say. And people went to the movies. Movie companies felt the award shows were good for an extra bump in revenue. Now a days we have had a generational shift. Old folks go to the movies less and the kids go to see the comic book movies. I think Movie theater revenue has been dropping when you exclude the block blusters.

The oscars have had an attitude that is must be theatrically shown and emmys were for broadcast. So the loophole is to show the movie in one theater for a week and then stick it on streaming like Coda or do it simultaneously like HBO is starting to do.

Either way I think awards shows in general are becoming old news except of course when a surprise like this happens.


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

zalusky said:


> In times past there was not a lot of competition and it was an event like the Super Bowl. People tuned into see the gowns and what famous people would say. And people went to the movies. Movie companies felt the award shows were good for an extra bump in revenue. Now a days we have had a generational shift. Old folks go to the movies less and the kids go to see the comic book movies. I think Movie theater revenue has been dropping when you exclude the block blusters.
> 
> The oscars have had an attitude that is must be theatrically shown and emmys were for broadcast. So the loophole is to show the movie in one theater for a week and then stick it on streaming like Coda or do it simultaneously like HBO is starting to do.
> 
> Either way I think awards shows in general are becoming old news except of course when a surprise like this happens.


Well, I saw a lot of clips that showed me I want to see these movies.

And there was a lot of nonsense from the hosts and a pointless song and dance number when they were supposed to be honoring the deceased.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

HarleyRandom said:


> Well, I saw a lot of clips that showed me I want to see these movies.
> 
> And there was a lot of nonsense from the hosts and a pointless song and dance number when they were supposed to be honoring the deceased.


I just wait for it to be on streaming and look at the average IMDB user rating as the critic ratings can be well disconnected from the users as to whether to watch something newly released. I don't trust clips because in many cases thats the only good part of the movie.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Hcour said:


> Ricky Gervais:
> 
> People were going, ‘What would have happened if Ricky Gervais had been doing it [presenting an Oscar award)]?’” he continued. “Well, nothing, as I would not have made a joke about his wife’s hair. I would have made a joke about her boyfriend.”


The funny thing is one of the hosts (Regina Hall) actually did make a joke alluding to their open marriage earlier in the evening, and Will Smith laughed it off. I wonder why that one was OK to laugh off but the G.I. Jane one wasn't.



zalusky said:


> The oscars have had an attitude that is must be theatrically shown and emmys were for broadcast. So the loophole is to show the movie in one theater for a week and then stick it on streaming like Coda *or do it simultaneously like HBO is starting to do*.


Actually HBO isn't "starting" to do that. They did it for 2021 due to the pandemic, and they took a HUGE amount of grief for it from actors, directors, producers, and theaters. So starting in 2022, they're back to releasing films in theaters first, although I think the exclusive theatrical window has been shortened.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> The funny thing is one of the hosts (Regina Hall) actually did make a joke alluding to their open marriage earlier in the evening, and Will Smith laughed it off. I wonder why that one was OK to laugh off but the G.I. Jane one wasn't.


I am guessing because WIll doesn't like Chris due to previous ribbing and this was an moment that pushed him over.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

DevdogAZ said:


> The funny thing is one of the hosts (Regina Hall) actually did make a joke alluding to their open marriage earlier in the evening, and Will Smith laughed it off. I wonder why that one was OK to laugh off but the G.I. Jane one wasn't.


Seems obvious to me. She chose an open marriage but not a disease that caused baldness. 

It is like laughing about a bad Bruce Willis film but not his inability to remember lines. (Heck, I feel uncomfortable about the former in light of the latter.)


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

Beryl said:


> Seems obvious to me. She chose an open marriage but not a disease that caused baldness.
> 
> It is like laughing about a bad Bruce Willis film but not his inability to remember lines. (Heck, I feel uncomfortable about the former in light of the latter.)


It wasn't an open marraige, Jada cheated on Will and he may have cheated on her. Unfortunately I've actually seen the footage where they discuss this in detail.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Comics must now clear all jokes with the jokee first. 😀


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## connie_w (Jan 10, 2015)

brianp6621 said:


> It wasn't an open marraige, Jada cheated on Will and he may have cheated on her. Unfortunately I've actually seen the footage where they discuss this in detail.


I've seen/heard their relationship referenced as semi Open, whatever the heck that means.


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

connie_w said:


> I've seen/heard their relationship referenced as semi Open, whatever the heck that means.


I hate that I'm even discussing these trashy details but I believe there was infidelity and that led to an open/semi open marriage/agreement
(runs off to take a really scalding hot shower)


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

Beryl said:


> Seems obvious to me. She chose an open marriage but not a disease that caused baldness.


I haven't seen my neighbor lately but I did this morning. She had really short hair the last few times I saw her but I don't think she had any hair today. I know she used to go out on the porch to smoke.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

The Academy's decision...









Actor Will Smith banned from attending Oscars for 10 years | CNN


Will Smith will not be allowed to attend the Academy Awards for the next 10 years, as a result of his slapping comedian Chris Rock on stage during this year's Oscar ceremony, the Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences announced in a statement obtained by CNN.




www.cnn.com


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

MikeekiM said:


> The Academy's decision...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So it sounds like he can still be nominated and win though.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

yes, that is still possible.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Correct, you don't have to be an Academy member to be eligible to win an Oscar.

Supposedly there's another movie already in production (or maybe already shot) in which Will Smith plays a role that many experts are expecting would put him in contention for Best Actor again. There was discussion that if he got banned from winning, the studio may decide to postpone releasing the film until that ban is lifted. But it looks like he's just banned from membership in the Academy and attendance at any events, so he could still be nominated and even win, without being in attendance.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

And I believe he can only be nominated if he chooses to submit himself for consideration.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> Correct, you don't have to be an Academy member to be eligible to win an Oscar.
> 
> Supposedly there's another movie already in production (or maybe already shot) in which Will Smith plays a role that many experts are expecting would put him in contention for Best Actor again. There was discussion that if he got banned from winning, the studio may decide to postpone releasing the film until that ban is lifted. But it looks like he's just banned from membership in the Academy and attendance at any events, so he could still be nominated and even win, without being in attendance.


I assume that would be "Emancipation" to be distributed by Apple TV +


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Should have been a lifetime ban, but 10 years is good if they don’t reverse it before 2032.


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## zyzzx (Jan 22, 2002)

So he won’t be presenting Best Actress next year, as is customary for Best Actor (and vice versa). I wonder what the Academy will do instead.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

zyzzx said:


> So he won’t be presenting Best Actress next year, as is customary for Best Actor (and vice versa). I wonder what the Academy will do instead.


Bring out the 3 previous best actors or Pacino, DeNiro, and Lucas.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Chris Rock will present it.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Jiminy. Amy Schumer got death threats over her “seat filler” gag with Kirsten Dunst, which she said after the show that Dunst and Plemons were in on. Apparently she cleared all her material with their subjects beforehand. 









Amy Schumer Says Death Threats Against Her Got ‘So Bad’ After the Oscars: ‘The Misogyny Is Unbelievable’


Amy Schumer revealed on the April 13 episode of “The Howard Stern Show” that her seat filler joke at the 2022 Oscars with Jesse Plemons and Kirsten Dunst resulted in death threats again…




variety.com


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Some people are so stupid. How could anyone watch that bit and not realize that Amy knew exactly who Kirsten Dunst is, who she is married to, and that this was the whole joke behind that bit? If she were really just doing an explainer of how seat fillers worked and there was not supposed to be anything funny about it, do these idiot viewers really think that's the kind of thing a comedian would do as part of hosting the Oscars?


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Indeed. Even more absurd is the notion she would know who Jesse Plemons is and not Kirsten Dunst. She is WAY more famous than he is.


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

DevdogAZ said:


> Some people are so stupid. How could anyone watch that bit and not realize that Amy knew exactly who Kirsten Dunst is, who she is married to, and that this was the whole joke behind that bit? If she were really just doing an explainer of how seat fillers worked and there was not supposed to be anything funny about it, do these idiot viewers really think that's the kind of thing a comedian would do as part of hosting the Oscars?


Yes. They've done dumb stuff before, as well as this year.

I've heard the name Kirsten Dunst but wouldn't know her.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Spiderman, Fargo (tv)


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

She's been in a ton of stuff... probably the 3 Tobey Maguire Spidersmans and Interview with a Vampire are the biggest ones.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Yeah, but she was like 10 yrs old in IWAV 🙂


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Bring It On


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

jsmeeker said:


> Bring It On


Really interesting that Bring It On has endured for two decades.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

She has been doing stuff most every year. I watched her recently in “On becoming a God in Central Florida”.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

And most recently with her husband...*The Power of the Dog*


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)




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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

Things like that really demonstrate what the turnaround time is for a nationally syndicated comic strip these days.


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

I read an interesting letter to the editor from someone who served in the military. She said Jada ought to be proud to be compared to G.I. Jane. This woman had her head shaved because there were too many problems with having hair in her situation.


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## Mike Lang (Nov 17, 1999)




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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Mike Lang said:


>


Somebody is "Attempting" or being told to do preliminary damage control before a new entertainment product is released.


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## Hcour (Dec 24, 2007)

I just wish I cared.


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

I read an article that said he apologized to Chris Rock's mother. This reminds me that the actress who played Chris' mom in the series loosely based on his life is now in "The Neighborhood" and Chris from that show is one of the teachers in "Abbott Elementary". Wonder if they've had any thoughts?


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Wouldn't an apology best be made personally?


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

pdhenry said:


> Wouldn't an apology best be made personally?


I only watched a minute or so of the video, but he said Chris wasn’t ready to talk to him and would reach out when he was.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

pdhenry said:


> Wouldn't an apology best be made personally?


If that was the purpose as compared to image restoration by order of the suits providing money for your projects.
4 months out does not seem like it was an apology.


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

Would have made more sense if something had changed with Chris.

On "Generation Gap" there was a photo of Willow and this young female contestant commented on Willow's great hair, but it was an old photo. Now Willow has copied her mother. But they both look good!


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