# Lost - ep: The Hunting Party - 01/18



## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

Didnt see a thread, figured no one wanted to be the first??????? weird for a lost thread

ALEX?


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## yaddayaddayadda (Apr 8, 2003)

Thought it was a weak episode. How many more Jack-leaving-on-a-hike-Kate-wants-to-go-Jack-says-no-Kate-goes-anyway scenes do we have to watch?

Plus no Eko.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

G.I. JACK

the other guy? james?


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## MannyVjr (Nov 20, 2002)

Question...

Wouldn't it make more sense to have Jack ask Sayid about the army training? Since Sayid was a SOLDIER!

and we get to see ALEX (sorta).


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## ebf (Mar 21, 2005)

MannyVjr said:


> ...we get to see ALEX (sorta).


Who was Alex? I mean, in this episode.


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## Charon2 (Nov 1, 2001)

Hurley thinks he has a chance with Abby (or whatever her name is). There was an odd smile last week, but she's a psychiatrist, perhaps she just recognizes him from the hospital?
So we finally know why Jack is no longer married. She left him for somebody else. It'll be interesting to see if she left him for somebody who has a connection to the island. I'll have to watch again, but it doesn't seem like she had a good excuse to leave him or cheat on him though.
I have to wonder if Jack really thinks it is a good idea to start a war with the Others. They have been on the island much longer, and know it much better.
I was among those who didn't think it was Walt on the other end of the computer chat. However, he was heading in the right direction it would seem, even if the Others sent him off the trail. So if it wasn't Walt, why would they give information that would lead to the Others?
Nice touch between Sun and Jin on the beach. I think it is clear they truly love on another.
The main Other guy didn't seem sure who Jack was talking about when Jack talked about Ethen Rom being a spy, but just tried to play it cool. Perhaps more evidence that there is more then one group of Others.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

ebf said:


> Who was Alex? I mean, in this episode.


BRING HER OUT ALEX and kate gets handed off with a bag on her head


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## ebf (Mar 21, 2005)

As if I wasn't already annoyed with this show... What is the deal with Jack and Locke not asking the guy more questions?!? Like, "How long have you all been here?" "How did you get here?" Or how about saying, "Hey, man you show us the way outta this place and The Island is all yours!" Seriously...


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## dba62 (Sep 2, 2005)

Jack was too busy trying to push a no win situation to stop to think to ask an intelligent question.


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## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

Lost got cut off to switch to Law & Order and I missed the end of the exchange between Jack and AL. What happened? Last I heard was:

Jack: I heard you killed one of them?


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## dba62 (Sep 2, 2005)

She said yes. He asked if she was a cop. She said that she "was". He asked her how long it would take to train an army. That's the gist of it anyway.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

When Zeke suddenly yelled "You're exactly right, Jack!" from the shadows, I got goosebumps and leaned a little closer to the TV. YES!! Somethings about to happen!! Maybe we'll learn something.

So, what did we learn? We learned that the Others totally own the Lostaways. They have them outnumbered and outclassed.

We learned that "Zeke" (Sawyer's nicknames crack me up) thinks Alvar Hanso is "a lot smarter than anyone here". So, they are indeed connected with the Dharma project in some way.

We learned that Alex is alive and well (probably the girl on the boat, as was guessed by some).

We had it reaffirmed that the Others are not indiscriminate killers. They could have wiped them all out by now if they had so wanted to.

We learned that Jin is totally whipped now.

I agree that Zeke didn't seem to know who Ethan is. I just watched it again and after Jack says that they "sent a spy" Zeke's face is a total blank. Then the writers seem to make a point of it by having Jack state "Ethan". Zeke's reaction to that name is interesting. He seems to mull the name over for a bit, then is very guarded in his response: "Very interesting theory, Jack".


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## Grumpy Pants (Jul 1, 2002)

I was a little disappointed with the lack of info and I am not convinced that there were that many people with torches. Also, what did Sawyer call that dude? Zeke?


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Charon2 said:


> I have to wonder if Jack really thinks it is a good idea to start a war with the Others.
> 
> The main Other guy didn't seem sure who Jack was talking about when Jack talked about Ethen Rom being a spy, but just tried to play it cool. Perhaps more evidence that there is more then one group of Others.


Perhaps he wants the army for defense, rather than to start a war.

I too get the impression there could be two different groups of Others... the scruffy human ones, and the more clean cut superhuman ones.

Zeke's phony facial hair was quite a distraction in HD. :down:


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## canonelan2 (May 11, 2001)

Was "Zeke" played by the same actor as the season one finale? He looked like a different actor to me.


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## dba62 (Sep 2, 2005)

My audio cut out for a few seconds right around the time that Jack and Locke were arguing. Locke wanted to head back.

Jack: "Don't turn around on me John."
Locke: "You're not going to get him to come back and you know it."
Jack: "You know what happens if we just turn around and go back?"
<lost audio>
Jack: "... on us, on you, and on me."

Other: "You're exactly right Jack."

So what did Jack say that I missed? Thanks.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Grumpy Pants said:


> I am not convinced that there were that many people with torches.


The only other options are that "Zeke" and Alex herded them into a location where they had set up torches ahead of time, or that she and/or other assistants set them up very quickly after the hunting party stopped (perhaps during the commercial break? ) .


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## canonelan2 (May 11, 2001)

canonelan2 said:


> Was "Zeke" played by the same actor as the season one finale? He looked like a different actor to me.


I guess it IS the same actor. According to tv.com M. C. Gainey is credited as the "bearded man" in the season one finale and as "Mr. Friendly" in tonights episode.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

canonelan2 said:


> Was "Zeke" played by the same actor as the season one finale? He looked like a different actor to me.


Definitely the same actor--a very recognizable character actor whose name I don't know.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

dba62 said:


> My audio cut out for a few seconds right around the time that Jack and Locke were arguing. Locke wanted to head back.
> 
> So what did Jack say that I missed? Thanks.


.

Jack: "Don't turn around on me John."
Locke: "You're not going to get him to come back and you know it."
Jack: "You know what happens if we just turn around and go back?"
Jack: "We're never going to see him again... And that's going to be on us. On you... And on me."

Other: "You're exactly right Jack."


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

I know I'd be askin a HECK of a lot more questions. I mean c'mon...they tell them it's their island, so OK, we'll be happy to get off it. Let us borrow your boat!!


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

Fool Me Twice said:


> We learned that "Zeke" (Sawyer's nicknames crack me up) thinks Alvar Hanso is "a lot smarter than anyone here". So, they are indeed connected with the Dharma project in some way.


I don't understand the connection....did Alvar used those terms?


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Paperboy2003 said:


> I know I'd be askin a HECK of a lot more questions. I mean c'mon...they tell them it's their island, so OK, we'll be happy to get off it. Let us borrow your boat!!


When Zeke said that it was time they all sat down and had a talk, what he meant was that he was going to speak in very vague metaphorical terms about entering a man's house for the first time. Lol. That's par for the course for this show. It would annoy me more if I hadn't accepted it long ago.


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## El Gabito (Mar 11, 2004)

Paperboy2003 said:


> I don't understand the connection....did Alvar used those terms?


http://www.thehansofoundation.org/alvarhanso.html


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Paperboy2003 said:


> I don't understand the connection....did Alvar used those terms?


Zeke was quoting Alvar Hanso. See here.



> From the dawn of our species, Man has been blessed with curiosity. Our most precious gift, without exception, is the desire to know more - to look beyond what is accepted as the truth and to imagine what is possible.
> 
> - Alvar Hanso, Address to the U.N. Security Council, 1967


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## funbox (Apr 5, 2002)

ebf said:


> As if I wasn't already annoyed with this show... What is the deal with Jack and Locke not asking the guy more questions?!? Like, "How long have you all been here?" "How did you get here?" Or how about saying, "Hey, man you show us the way outta this place and The Island is all yours!" Seriously...


That **** made me spit out my soda. Too funny.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

The more I think about it, the less sure I am that there was one man per torch. It does seem like and obvious trick. There is the question of how they could so quickly set up so many torches without being detected. But, I suppose they could find a way. One thing that bothers me is that Zeke was upset that they were poking around in the Hatch. If that Hatch was so important and Zeke's group is so strong, why not remove them by force?

And who was it that lured Michael out? Was is Zeke? If so, why didn't they make contact with him? He said that michael "would never find them". Why lure him out if you didn't intend for him to find you?


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

*yawn*

I'm really feeling the absence of JJ Abrams in the creative loop of Lost this season. This episode just felt way too weak, disjointed.... and the one scene that ought to have been most riveting, with Jack/Locke/James vs. Zeke ended up feeling so poorly written because it feels like a pointless meeting instead of a dramatic encounter.

Here's hoping it picks back up again soon. Or that they do another Hurley-centric episode.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Paperboy2003 said:


> I know I'd be askin a HECK of a lot more questions. I mean c'mon...they tell them it's their island, so OK, we'll be happy to get off it. Let us borrow your boat!!


Oh, and I'll remind you of the third commandment  of LOST.



> 3. Thou shalt not seriously interrogate anyone who could possibly have answers, lest answers be had.


And, of course, Zeke followe the eighth commandment.



> 8. If thou dost have answers, thou shalt speak either vaguely or not at all.


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## crazywater (Mar 7, 2001)

ebf said:


> As if I wasn't already annoyed with this show... What is the deal with Jack and Locke not asking the guy more questions?!? Like, "How long have you all been here?" "How did you get here?" Or how about saying, "Hey, man you show us the way outta this place and The Island is all yours!" Seriously...


I think at this point its pretty much accepted by our lostaways that they are not alone on the island. Jack did ask who he Zeke was then Sawyer said he was the guy that shot him, Sawyer approaches and then gets shot with something, Jack then asks where Michael is...So they did ask questions, then Zeke starts laying down the law...

And I don't see the Ethan theory, Zeke had no reaction at all...

I did not catch the Alex tie-in until I read it here...

Love Zeke's little smirk when Sawyer says "You and me ain't done, Zeke"


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## RegBarc (Feb 18, 2003)

Something that really jumped out at me this episode was when Zeke had Kate with the gun to her throat. Anyone notice the gun?

Type 94 8mm pistol, or something equivolent to that (could have been a type 14, or even a luger, the light wa sa little poor). Regardless, it was a weapon that looked like it dated to World War 2 easily. The barrel looked nothing like any modern semi-auto at all. Why would he be carrying that gun? The producers put it in that scene in his hands for a specific reason. We know the island's inhabitants, or at least existence, dates to World War 2 era. Considering the possibility of being a type 94, a sidearm of the Japanese military during World War 2...this could prove interesting. A connection between the Others and other inhabitants.

And that Italian chick was H.O.T.


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## RegBarc (Feb 18, 2003)

I may be on the minority here (sorry Jay!) but I thought Jack's story was quite moving and the episode overall satisfied me pretty well, even without the Others in it...that was just a bonus.


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## crazywater (Mar 7, 2001)

RegBarc said:


> I may be on the minority here (sorry Jay!) but I thought Jack's story was quite moving and the episode overall satisfied me pretty well, even without the Others in it...that was jsut a bonus.


I too thought this was a very good episode. Jack's wife saying the he will always need to fix something says it all...


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

MannyVjr said:


> Question...
> 
> Wouldn't it make more sense to have Jack ask Sayid about the army training? Since Sayid was a SOLDIER!
> 
> and we get to see ALEX (sorta).


I asked that too and my hubby said 'Because Sayid is really a pacifist and mainly because Ana L is a bad ass b*tch...


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

This is interesting. Zeke spoke of a man entering a house and taking of his shoes. When Locke first entered the Hatch he took off his shoes. Coincidence? Can Zeke can see into the hatch somehow? Or maybe he's been talking to Desmond?


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## RegBarc (Feb 18, 2003)

crazywater said:


> I too thought this was a very good episode. Jack's wife saying the he will always need to fix something says it all...


Exactly. Jack's acting, along with his wife, was absolutely superb to me. Maybe I could see the point others made about a weak episode, but the acting was delicious.


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## RegBarc (Feb 18, 2003)

Oh, and it is also no shock to me Locke tried to talk Jack into dropping the weapon.

Maybe I am reading too much into this, but we are all somewhat aware of the connection between John Locke the character and John Locke the philosopher. Lock the philosopher was the loudest voice supporting property rights. A man's land is absolutely his right to maintain. I think he somewhat sympathizes with them on that point that the survivors cames to their land and started using it.

Again, I could just be another Lost fanboy, but darn, this makes sense.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

MannyVjr said:


> Wouldn't it make more sense to have Jack ask Sayid about the army training? Since Sayid was a SOLDIER!


Well but Sayid would have enough sense to know it's not a good idea. Jack knows that Ana Lucia is a loose cannon like him and will jump at the idea. Catch the look on her face when Jack asked her? Let's just hope there's nothing that can be used to make a nuclear bomb in the hatch...


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

I thought it was a very cool episode. I was floored when Zeke started talking. Lots of fun. 

Jeez, Daughter of the patient was just outragously hot. Now Jack should go track her down.. I mean, at least once...


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

I too liked this episode. But I have to say, I also was thinking that they should just have said "we just want to leave. Let us build our raft and get the hell off the island!"

Or at the very least, Jack should have replied "And what do you do when a guest wants to leave your house? Do you lock the doors and force him to stay, and then accuse him of intruding?" 

But I guess I, like others, have come to accept that no real questions will ever get real answers in this show...


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## svenhummer (Nov 27, 2004)

ebf said:


> As if I wasn't already annoyed with this show... What is the deal with Jack and Locke not asking the guy more questions?!? Like, "How long have you all been here?" "How did you get here?" Or how about saying, "Hey, man you show us the way outta this place and The Island is all yours!" Seriously...





dba62 said:


> Jack was too busy trying to push a no win situation to stop to think to ask an intelligent question.


These are the things that are starting to annoy me about this show. Sometimes it seems to me that the writers go out of their way to make the plane crash survivors act as little like humans in their situation would. There have been so many other times, but the encounter in tonights episode seals it. They finally come face to face with these other people on the island and no one says anything. Give me a break, it would be just like a little kid looking for an answer to a question they shouldn't be asking. They would just keep asking questions, weather or not they had anything to do with what the bearded man said... weather or not he answered them, someone in their situation wouldn't just stand there and say, oh, hi... look, there are these other people we were talking about... lets just look at them for a minute and go back to the beach where we can then ponder these 1000 other questions we have. Anyway, it just seems like a little too much reaching to me sometimes - as if that black smoke didn't ruin any realism the show might have had left.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Geronimo Jackson
Geronimo = "sacred name"
Jackson = Jack's son

Did Sarah have a baby after all?
Was it "special"?

Clue or Coincidence?

Yeah. Most likely coincidence.


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

Magister said:


> Jeez, Daughter of the patient was just outragously hot. Now Jack should go track her down.. I mean, at least once...


Yeah, who was she, and why isn't she on every show - like Julie Bowen seems to be (although, this may be the last we've seen of her on Lost).


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Geronimo Jackson
> Geronimo = "sacred name"
> Jackson = Jack's son
> 
> ...


Alice in Wonderland was directed by Clyde Geronimi(spelled Geronimo in Norway) and Wilfred Jackson


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## forecheck (Aug 5, 2000)

Mr. Clean...

classic line!


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## emandbri (Jul 5, 2004)

I thought it was good. I'm a bit confused though did Zeke say his name and I missed it? Did Sawyer hear someone call him Zeke when they took walt? I'm surprised that Jack didn't ask about the other children and the adults that were taken, surely he was told about them.

Emily


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## GadgetFreak (Jun 3, 2002)

My machine cut off the first minute or two. It started with Jack's father saying something like "your father appreciates candor". What did I miss?


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Why in God's name would Jack tell his wife that he kissed the smokin' Italian babe? You make her drag that out of you. Then after confessing to her he found out she was leaving him anyway. 

The simultaneous flame-on and flame-off of the Others' torches was corny. Do they have gas powered torches or something.

I guess Jin will be wearing a dress from now on.

Is there anyone who didn't think that Freckles was going to follow Jack, Locke and Lawyer?


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## itsmeitsmeitsme (Nov 13, 2003)

Charon2 said:


> Hurley thinks he has a chance with Abby (or whatever her name is). There was an odd smile last week, but she's a psychiatrist, perhaps she just recognizes him from the hospital?
> So we finally know why Jack is no longer married. She left him for somebody else. It'll be interesting to see if she left him for somebody who has a connection to the island. I'll have to watch again, but it doesn't seem like she had a good excuse to leave him or cheat on him though.
> I have to wonder if Jack really thinks it is a good idea to start a war with the Others. They have been on the island much longer, and know it much better.
> I was among those who didn't think it was Walt on the other end of the computer chat. However, he was heading in the right direction it would seem, even if the Others sent him off the trail. So if it wasn't Walt, why would they give information that would lead to the Others?
> ...


It's obvious she left him for Michael J. Fox's character in Boston Legal.......


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

emandbri said:


> I thought it was good. I'm a bit confused though did Zeke say his name and I missed it? Did Sawyer hear someone call him Zeke when they took walt? I'm surprised that Jack didn't ask about the other children and the adults that were taken, surely he was told about them.
> 
> Emily


No, it's just a nickname that Sawyer came up with. Like Freckles, Mr. Clean, etc.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I do wonder about the analogy that Zeke spouted to Jack about intruders in the house. And why Jack/Locke/Sawyer didn't question it.

The simple fact is that the Lost-aways are not mind-readers. They have just survived a plane crash and are completely on their own trying to survive. Even with moles in each of their groups. Their only encounters with the others have always involved violence toward them.

For Zeke to just say in a nice friendly manner... Hi there Jack, why have you been wandering around OUR island and 'surviving' when it's all our stuff - that seems odd. Though I like the corelation made between taking off shoes and Locke removing his shoes someone else noted.

If the other's had made their presence known at the beginning, and THEN the Lostaways got into their stuff, I would agree that the analogy works. But its not how it went.

The Others have kidnapped, spied, assaulted, and abducted. All without a word to the Lostaways that they view the island as their home. 
If they were willing to sit down with them tonight, why not do it a couple of months ago? They could have laid out the rules then. They obviously have good intel on all the Lostaways, so they know that they are marooned there.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Grumpy Pants said:


> ... I am not convinced that there were that many people with torches.


I disagree about the torches. Viewers have been wondering how many "others" there can potentially be. A huge group? A few on a small boat? Just the feet Jin saw walking through the jungle? This was the writer's way of telling us the answer is a significant amount.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

Anyone else notice that flash at around 17 minutes? I'm thinking it was a camera flash from someone taking photos of the filming going on. Not as cool as the car going by a couple of episodes ago but Im still surprised they didnt edit it out.


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## Chandler Mike (Mar 29, 2002)

crazywater said:


> I too thought this was a very good episode. Jack's wife saying the he will always need to fix something says it all...


Problem is, most people don't look at the backstories as anything but filler if there is no real good info revealed in each episode.

I thought this was a great one...all around...but I see others calling it weak, and it's likely because we just didn't learn some other huge secret.

The fact that they made contact with them, he knows their names, etc., was big in of itself.

I loved it...backstory was great. Learned why Jack and his wife aren't married anymore...

Mike


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## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

I noticed Jack is still wearing the key to the briefcase around his neck. If all the other guns are locked in the vault, why does he still need to do that? I would think the guns from the briefcase would be locked in the vault as well.


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## jeepair (Apr 22, 2004)

KungFuCow said:


> Anyone else notice that flash at around 17 minutes? I'm thinking it was a camera flash from someone taking photos of the filming going on. Not as cool as the car going by a couple of episodes ago but Im still surprised they didnt edit it out.


How about the buoy out in the water when Jack and Anna were talking.

As far as asking the others for help to get off the Island... I'm sure the others don't want anyone to leave and tell the world about 'their' island.


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## Greg K. (Jun 28, 2005)

http://www.geronimojackson.com/

I'll bet these guys are going to be getting a lot of hits, and they have the following:

_
But if you are lost like Geronimo Jackson and looking for something in particular - a subject matter you don't see, or a certain image on a different item - just contact us. _

Anybody ever hear the phrase "lost like Geronimo Jackson" before?


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

Magister said:


> Jeez, Daughter of the patient was just outragously hot. Now Jack should go track her down.. I mean, at least once...


I said to my wife, as we were watching, 'couldn't the wife have told Jack about the split BEFORE the hot chick starting making out with him!!

Those Italians sure have a fun way to mourn.....


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## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

Fool Me Twice said:


> This is interesting. Zeke spoke of a man entering a house and taking of his shoes. When Locke first entered the Hatch he took off his shoes. Coincidence? Can Zeke can see into the hatch somehow? Or maybe he's been talking to Desmond?


I'd posted a similar idea a few weeks ago, at the time of "Walt's" second communication with Michael over the computer. How else could Walt know Michael was there? They can see into the bunker.

Also, I think Jack was generally correct but slightly off the mark when he accused Zeke of not having as big a group as Zeke wanted them to believe. I think Zeke has numbers - but not necessarily guns or ammo. Which is why they wanted Jack's groups guns so badly.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Is it me, but does it seem that the Lostaways have given up trying to get off the Island? Like most of you, that would be my first response to Zeke. How do I "leave" your house? Heck, even Giligan and the skipper were trying to get off the Island the whole time!!

I think the point of the backstory was to try and show some more of what drives Jack. It shows:

He's human...his kiss with the daughter proves that, he can give in to temptation

He's very prone to guilt....He tells his wife that he kisses the woman. I think it's part of why he has pulled away from Kate, he knows he shouldn't have kissed her..

He's "always trying to fix something".... which has come up more than once. He's got a definite "hero" complex. He's always trying to save everything. 

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the whole conversation between Locke and Jack in the storeroom when Locke says something like, "why should Michael listen to you?" Essentially, Jack is always trying to "save" everyone, in this case, by taking the leadership role.

I thought it was a good episode overall. When Zeke came out of the jungle, my jaw dropped!! Loved it.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

> I think Jack was generally correct but slightly off the mark when he accused Zeke of not having as big a group as Zeke wanted them to believe. I think Zeke has numbers - but not necessarily guns or ammo. Which is why they wanted Jack's groups guns so badly.


I agree. I think Zeke was bluffing when he called Jack's bet (possibly not one torch per Other, IMO). It worked, at least for now.



> The simultaneous flame-on and flame-off of the Others' torches was corny. Do they have gas powered torches or something.


Maybe they were hiding the torches, and just lifted them up. Not a big plot-point, IMO.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

Fool Me Twice said:


> So, what did we learn? We learned that the Others totally own the Lostaways. They have them outnumbered and outclassed.


They didn't outnumber the "Lostaways." There are around 45 people on that beach and there weren't 45 torches.


Fool Me Twice said:


> Geronimo Jackson Geronimo = "sacred name" Jackson = Jack's son
> 
> Did Sarah have a baby after all?


This is a reach of Keeganistic proportions.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

I liked it when Zeke said that there was a line, and basically stay on your side of it and we'll be fine. Seemed very nice of him.


I agree that Zeke's group was not reallly armed until this, looks like just a b.b. gun.

Also, was Kate the one shooting the 7 shots, or Michael? And was he shooting at Zeke's group or what?


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Ok, maybe I'm making this up, and it was late and I didn't want to spend time rewinding continuously, but the scene in the hospital when the Italian Chick (?) , or whomever, opens the door to the hallway, a doctor walks by outside in the hallway and I thought his size and facial features sort of matched those of Zeke......

I'll have to look for screenshots to see if I am off my rocker.....


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

jlb said:


> Ok, maybe I'm making this up, and it was late and I didn't want to spend time rewinding continuously, but the scene in the hospital when the Italian Chick (?) , or whomever, opens the door to the hallway, a doctor walks by outside in the hallway and I thought his size and facial features sort of matched those of Zeke......
> 
> I'll have to look for screenshots to see if I am off my rocker.....


GET OUT OF *MY *HOSPITAL, I was here FIRST!


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

MikeMar said:


> I liked it when Zeke said that there was a line, and basically stay on your side of it and we'll be fine. Seemed very nice of him.


And at the hospital, Jacks father warned him about crossing a line. Is that supposed to mean something?


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

Someone will have to go back to screen shots of any extras. Is this the first flashback set where we didn't find any connections to the islanders?

Maybe that was Zeke?!? I doubt it, because that would only be a couple years, if at all before our Lost-aways got there, and I wouldnt' think he would have been made the leader so quick, and he really couldn't expect to 'own' the island.

I know one of you will find a link there somewhere... I have faith in this community.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Did Zeke shoot Sawyer? I thought I heard a shot and saw Sawyer clutch his side with blood between his fingers.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

cheesesteak said:


> Did Zeke shoot Sawyer? I thought I heard a shot and saw Sawyer clutch his side with blood between his fingers.


Someone shot him, but it was something small, either a B.B. gun or something like that. I mean he got shot in the neck and seemed fine and all.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Fool Me Twice said:


> This is interesting. Zeke spoke of a man entering a house and taking of his shoes. When Locke first entered the Hatch he took off his shoes. Coincidence? Can Zeke can see into the hatch somehow? Or maybe he's been talking to Desmond?


This is a strong possibility.

They knew that Locke had an extra gun.

But, as someone said in an earlier thread, they may not be able to see the entire hatch, since the person typing to Michael asked if he was alone.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Zeke was quoting Alvar Hanso. See here.
> 
> 
> > From the dawn of our species, Man has been blessed with curiosity. Our most precious gift, without exception, is the desire to know more - to look beyond what is accepted as the truth and to imagine what is possible.
> ...


It has been my guess, ever since we saw the orientation film, that Zeke/Bearded Man/Mr. Friendly is Gerold DeGroot (the director of the Darhma Intuitive, under Alvar Hanso, according to the orientation film).

I really don't have much to base this on other than the images we see of the young DeGroot in the film he is a somewhat burly built young man with a bushy black beard.

However, his quoting Hanso suggests he is associated with the Darhma Intuitive, which reenforces my guess that he may be DeGroot. His apparent age would be about right, assuming that film was made in the early 70's ("hippy" looking clothes and hairstyles of everyone in it being the clue, and the mention that the Darhma inititive was started in 1970). He appeared to be 30ish in the film, Zeke appears to be in his early 60s.

BTW: The blond woman driving the boat may have been Alex. In the crappy light, she looked older to me though. Maybe as old as 50s. (Alex would be in her teens.) This would make it possible that she was Karen DeGroot. Wife of Gerold and co-director of Darhma. Karen DeGroot appears in the film as a blond hippy-looking chick of 20ish.

And, yes, Fish Man broke his promise to stop participating in "Lost" threads. I'll just put on my asbestos underwear for when the flamers come out of the woodwork....


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## Tivoop (Sep 2, 2002)

Why do you think there was a need for the original 7 shots? Have they already taken Michael? I wouldn't have expected Kate to put up that good of a fight (did she even have a gun with her?)


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## tms317 (May 2, 2003)

I actually thought that Zeke's reference to taking off your shoes in someone else's house was a reference to why they all walk around barefoot...b/c they view the island as their home. I thought maybe he was saying that they were walking all over their island in an inappropriate manner, much like how they apparently felt it was inappropriate for Locke to bust into the hatch.

I did not make the connection between the comment and Locke taking his shoes off in the hatch, b/c it seems like they would have approved of that move--and yet the point of his speech seemed to be that the lostaways were acting inappropriately.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Expanding a bit on what I posted above:

Another tid-bit of evidence that Zeke is associated with Darhma, and therefore might be DeGroot, is that he called the island "our island". 

Assuming the Darhma Initiative took over the whole island for its experiment, the Darhma folks would surely consider it "their" island.

Maybe it indeed belongs to the Hanso foundation legally. Perhaps Hanso owns it.


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## jwjody (Dec 7, 2002)

NOT HAPPY!!!

My cable went out with 16 minutes left! It was down for an hour and a half. I'll either download this through iTunes or use BT. But NOT HAPPY!!

J


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

MikeMar said:


> Also, was Kate the one shooting the 7 shots, or Michael? And was he shooting at Zeke's group or what?


To me, it was distinctly two guns being fired. Three shots from one, then some back and forth. I think Michael got into a little fight...


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

So if Zeke and his crew really were willing to kill Kate, Jack, Locke and Sawyer, and presumably anyone else from flight 815, does that mean they're not concerned about the code being entered every 108 minutes? Of course, if it really is anything more than a psychological experiment, they could take over in shifts themselves - perhaps Desmond was one of them and effectively turned it over to Jack et. al.

Also liked the "John Locke" philosophizing. The choice of name was undoubtedly no coincidence. I've been waiting for someone to say what Locke said about telling other people what to do. Still, even if they do have some formal or other legal claim to the island, his analogy is rather flawed. They certainly didn't enter by choice, and had no way of knowing it wasn't abandoned. They were greeted with hostility and were simply defending themselves. And obviously, they'd gladly leave if they had a way to do so, which is really all they were trying to do when they opened the hatch, etc.


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## Charon2 (Nov 1, 2001)

Short of Zeke not wanting the outside world to know about "their" island, perhaps there is indeed no good way off the island, otherwise I would think he would have offered them a way off the island. Zeke saw them on a raft trying to escape, so the Zeke Others know they want off the island, yet Zeke makes no get off the island speech, just a stay on your side of the island speech.


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## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

MikeMar said:


> I liked it when Zeke said that there was a line, and basically stay on your side of it and we'll be fine. Seemed very nice of him.


I'd forgotten this line. It means one of two things:

1) This group of "others" is not the same group that attacked the tail section group, who had an unprovoked attack. This would support theories that Zeke really didn't know anything about Ethan.

2) If they are the same group that attacked the tail section survivors, then it means they can't take Jack's group due to numbers or guns. Otherwise, why would they attack one group and let the other group off?


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Big_Daddy said:


> I'd forgotten this line. It means one of two things:
> 
> 1) This group of "others" is not the same group that attacked the tail section group, who had an unprovoked attack. This would support theories that Zeke really didn't know anything about Ethan.
> 
> 2) If they are the same group that attacked the tail section survivors, then it means they can't take Jack's group due to numbers or guns. Otherwise, why would they attack one group and let the other group off?


I'm leaning toward the opinion that Ethan is not from the same group as Zeke.

There's lots of evidence that there are multiple groups of "others" (at least two, more than two perhaps??)

This would mean that Zeke's blank expression followed by the comment, "that's one heck of a theory, Jack" (not a perfect quote, but close) indicates that Zeke genuinely had no clue what Jack was talking about when he mentioned Ethan.

Also, largely because Zeke seems to know so much about the Lostaways (names, etc.) I think that they 1) Have Walt (Zeke even said, "Walt's fine".) and that they 2) Are monitoring the bunker and 3) They faked the message from Walt on the computer to lure Michael to go out looking for him. They didn't give Michael their _real_ location, of course, but a fake one, tricking Michael into going where _they wanted him_ to go. Evidence to speculation #3: Zeke's statement that, "Michael won't find us."

These speculations parallel my guess that Zeke is really Gerold DeGroot, director of Darhma.


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## joseph2002 (Oct 3, 2002)

Anyone notice that Jack did not have any tattoos on his arm? You could clearly see his arms when he got into bed at 4:30. Any idea what they represent?


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Am I the only one thinking that the italian chick looked like Jimmy Carr in drag?


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

joseph2002 said:


> Anyone notice that Jack did not have any tattoos on his arm? You could clearly see his arms when he was in got into bed at 4:30. Any idea what they represent?


There was a Jack flashback last season where the tatoos were also missing and we had a discussion about it then.

Since the tatoos are _real_ tatoos that actor Matthew Fox _really has_ on his arms, they must use makeup to cover them in the flashbacks.

Since they go through that trouble to hide "Jack's" tatoos in the flashbacks, they have clearly "written them into the show" to have some significance to his character.

These flashbacks suggest he got them sometime after his wife left him, perhaps their meaning to Jack is associated with that breakup...


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

DUDE_NJX said:


> Am I the only one thinking that the italian chick looked like Jimmy Carr in drag?


Yes (Warning: Parts NSFW)


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## joseph2002 (Oct 3, 2002)

Thanks Fish Man. Nice to have you back in the LOST threads. I missed your insightful comments.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

MacThor said:


> Yes (Warning: Parts NSFW)


Oh, come on...
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=887&pos=24

http://www.jimmycarr.com/images/pic6.jpg


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## svenhummer (Nov 27, 2004)

Steveknj said:


> I'm surprised nobody mentioned the whole conversation between Locke and Jack in the storeroom when Locke says something like, "why should Michael listen to you?" Essentially, Jack is always trying to "save" everyone, in this case, by taking the leadership role.


I was too busy laughing when Locke was explaining to Jack that he bolted the air vent shut from the inside so that people couldn't not get in... so wouldn't that mean not that you _could_ open the vent from the inside?


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

svenhummer said:


> so wouldn't that mean not that you _could_ open the vent from the inside?


Not without a wrench was my thought...

I'm still having flashbacks of Zeke's glued on eyebrows. I guess they could be real, but man they looked like they just pasted some extra barbershop floor hair on him.


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## jerobi (Sep 28, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> To me, it was distinctly two guns being fired. Three shots from one, then some back and forth. I think Michael got into a little fight...


Ditto. Plus we saw the mark on the tree, which means they were close to the gun fight (if not, that's a lousy clue). That tree mark was during daylight, right? Since their meeting with Zeke was in the dark, I guess they could have travelled any distance. Too bad the meeting didn't happen right after the tree mark, or we could have tried to yank some assumptions from it (IE, Zeke's group was one of the shooters)


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## peitsche (Nov 13, 2002)

Grumpy Pants said:


> I am not convinced that there were that many people with torches.


well, in this photo, I can make out (at least) as many people as torches...


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

What if the 'others' are also part of an overall experiment. This is a little fuzzy in my head, but what if they were told that they cannot leave the island, that they too, like Desmond, had a purpose there. All of a sudden a jet crashes and disrupts whatever it was that they had to do on the island.....

They obviously have gas and a boat, yet they don't try to leave. Probably a little bit of a crazy theory, but I thought I'd throw it out there.....


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## Devdog (Jan 23, 2003)

Someone please correct me if I am wrong here but didn't they say in the training film not to use the computer for anything else other than inputting the numbers to prevent another "incident" from happening? Would this be considered another "incident"?


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

Devdog said:


> Someone please correct me if I am wrong here but didn't they say in the training film not to use the computer for anything else other than inputting the numbers to prevent another "incident" from happening? Would this be considered another "incident"?


To me an incident would be something on a grander scale....like whatever it was that wiped out the arrow bunker


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

OK, my head officially hurts trying to figure out all the links between all the characters, the flashbacks, the island, and everything else. Plus, why can't they give us one continuing story instead of jumping back and forth. I think, by far, the most interesting story is "the Others / Hatch" Next week:



Spoiler



looks like we are back to Charlie's story with drug addiction and his battle with Locke for baby and her mom's affection.



BTW, I've had a brain cramp. Who's Alex?


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## tms317 (May 2, 2003)

Alex is Danielle the french lady's daughter that was taken.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

Paperboy2003 said:


> To me an incident would be something on a grander scale....like whatever it was that wiped out the arrow bunker


Right, like the thermonuclear war that's Jack and Ana Lucia are going to cook up, as an indirect result of Walt "misusing" the computer.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

peitsche said:


> well, in this photo, I can make out (at least) as many people as torches...


Once again, an HD screen grab answers a pivotal question. :up:


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

NoThru22 said:


> This is a reach of Keeganistic proportions.


Ever read these threads? No? Well, you'll get the hang of it eventually. Wild speculation is encouraged. Just not taken seriously.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

So how many groups or people are we talking about on the island?

The others
The lostaways
The tailies
Ethans group? 
Desmond
Danielle

The person who infiltrated the tailies that Anna called out was he the others or part of Ethans group if he is not the others?


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

2nd week in a row I was not floored by the episode. eh.

Although I didn't catch the Hanso quoting and "Alex" until coming here.

What was all the deal about Sawyer making up his name? Is that confirmation that in his season 1 flashback that letter that he had was from the guy who killed his parents and not from himself (or something like that). I need a refresher there and what we've confirmed now, please.


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

Fish Man said:


> Once again, an HD screen grab answers a pivotal question. :up:


Crazy how much I miss on my ghetto Tube TV....


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## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

cwoody222 said:


> 2nd week in a row I was not floored by the episode. eh.
> 
> Although I didn't catch the Hanso quoting and "Alex" until coming here.
> 
> What was all the deal about Sawyer making up his name? Is that confirmation that in his season 1 flashback that letter that he had was from the guy who killed his parents and not from himself (or something like that). I need a refresher there and what we've confirmed now, please.


The letter was from Sawyer (James) to the real Sawyer, who was a con man. When they crashed on the island, James took the man he was looking for's name


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

cwoody222 said:


> What was all the deal about Sawyer making up his name? Is that confirmation that in his season 1 flashback that letter that he had was from the guy who killed his parents and not from himself (or something like that). I need a refresher there and what we've confirmed now, please.


Yes.

Sawyer was the con-artist who caused (not directly, but as a result of the emotional damage he inflicted) "Sawyer's" (James Ford - "our" Sawyer) father to murder his wife and then kill himself.

James Ford (our Sawyer) adopted the name "Sawyer" when he (with tragic irony) became a con-artist of the same sort who caused his parents to die.

We're pretty sure Kate knows this whole story. It's doubtful any of the other Lostaways do.

We learn here that Locke knows Sawyer's real name, but almost certainly doesn't know the back story behind why he calls himself "Sawyer".


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Jack pisses me off more and more as the series goes on...what a total control freak.

Now that he's losing Kate to Sawyer, I expect him to get a bit more chummy with Ana Lucia...


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

I wasn't floored by this show, but it did progress the story. I guess the speculation that Jack's marriage ended because he was gay was put to rest.

So were Jack's patient and his daughter from Romania? I know the actress is. I couldn't place the accent or the language the old man was speaking. It sounded kind of like Italian, but not. Either way, she was stunning!


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## IndyMark (Oct 18, 2002)

As other posters have speculated, I get the impression there are two distinct groups of Others:

1) The Dharma folks (Zeke and his posse - the people running the "project")
- Have access to a boat and fuel
- Seem to know about the hatch and can possibly see into it
- Quoted Hanso

2) The "Others" (the folks that ARE the project)
- This is the group that included Ethan Rom
- Explains why Zeke didn't know about Ethan

I think that the Hanso group is protected by the island security system, hence the line that should not be crossed. The Others are the test subject group that something went wrong with in the "incident" that was described on the movie found in the hatch. Desmond was obviously monitoring The Others for Dharma whether he knew it or not.

At least that's my take...


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## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

first I was bored for 45 minutes, then I got pissed off... this could've been a great episode, but the Jack backstory (with the exception of the real hot babe and last second revelation) was way too long. We get it... Jack is always the reluctant savior..

and of course, the encounter with Zeke bothered me b/c they didn't get one GD answer (then again, they didn't ask one GD question!!)

I've been so patient with this show, but last night was over the top.

arghhh......


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

hefe said:


> Jack pisses me off more and more as the series goes on...what a total control freak.


Very typical of surgeons though.

I don't know why people are expecting big revelations right now though.
Those will be saved for Sweeps.


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## MasterCephus (Jan 3, 2005)

I liked this story. The backstory just furthers our knowledge that Jack takes on things that have no possibility of accomplishing, and we have seen cases where he has failed ans succeeded.

I think the line that Zeke was talking about was more of a "You stay on your side, and we'll stay on our side" which leads me to believe that the tallies were on the wrong side of the island. I think there is but one group of "others" Ethan and the other guy seem to clean cut to be of a different group. They would seem to be with the people running the place.

I do agree with Fish man that Zeke is the guy from the orientation film. I think this is turning out to be a experiment gone bad and everyone stayed.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

ebf said:


> As if I wasn't already annoyed with this show... What is the deal with Jack and Locke not asking the guy more questions?!? Like, "How long have you all been here?" "How did you get here?" Or how about saying, "Hey, man you show us the way outta this place and The Island is all yours!" Seriously...


That's EXACTLY what I said. Dude, I'll totally get off YOUR island if you show me the way out.

So even if there was a person per torch, so what? There were like 10 torches. That's not a lot. There's over 40 survivors. I think the 'Others' are totally out numbered and they're just trying to look like tough guys.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Ever read these threads? No? Well, you'll get the hang of it eventually. Wild speculation is encouraged. Just not taken seriously.


Of course I read these threads, as evidenced by the fact that I mentioned the biggest "stretcher" of all, Mr. Jeff Keegan (who is conscipuously absent from this thread. Jeff come back!)


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## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

peitsche said:


> well, in this photo, I can make out (at least) as many people as torches...


The right shoulder of the torch holder in the lower left part of the picture looks like it has a patch with a military insignia on it.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

ebf said:


> As if I wasn't already annoyed with this show... What is the deal with Jack and Locke not asking the guy more questions?!? Like, "How long have you all been here?" "How did you get here?" Or how about saying, "Hey, man you show us the way outta this place and The Island is all yours!" Seriously...


 Haven't you ever been in a situation where you have all these things going thru your head, and then when the ideal time comes, you blank on everything?? Then you say later, I should've said this, I would've said that.

Yeah, they want to get off the island, but the immediate concern was "Find Michael". They just heard gunshots, worried that Michael might be hurt. Then some wierd dude pops up out of nowhere, confusion sets in Jack's head, Where's Michael? Is he OK? Who are you? Then Sawyer gets shot. Oh dangit, we're surrounded, better stand down. I'm kinda scared now. What the hell is this guy talking about? Kate? Dammit. What's wrong with her? I told her to stay back. Ok. Putting my gun down. More cryptic stuff from wierd guy. Where did they go? I should've asked How to get off this daggum island!

Totally plausible thought process.


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## lordargent (Nov 12, 2002)

Big_Daddy said:


> I think Zeke has numbers - but not necessarily guns or ammo.


I was yelling at them to take all of the ammo.

/Sure, you can have the guns, we've got more, but we'll be damned if we add to your ammo stockpile.


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## hanumang (Jan 28, 2002)

getbak said:


> Yeah, who was she, and why isn't she on every show - like Julie Bowen seems to be (although, this may be the last we've seen of her on Lost).


Monica Barladeanu, a Romanian _uber_-hottie.

A (more scandalous) Romanian site for her as already been linked to in this thread, but apparently, outside of Europe, she goes by Monica Dean - that's how she was credited on Lost.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Ok, maybe this is one major smeek, and I can't remember the threads from one week to the next, but for discussion purposes, let's say that the flashbacks are "current day", and the "on Island" scenes are a possible future....

Discuss amongst yourselves......


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## GadgetFreak (Jun 3, 2002)

GadgetFreak said:


> My machine cut off the first minute or two. It started with Jack's father saying something like "your father appreciates candor". What did I miss?


Anyone care to help? Thanks.


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## lordargent (Nov 12, 2002)

MikeMar said:


> I liked it when Zeke said that there was a line, and basically stay on your side of it and we'll be fine. Seemed very nice of him.
> 
> I agree that Zeke's group was not reallly armed until this, looks like just a b.b. gun.
> 
> Also, was Kate the one shooting the 7 shots, or Michael? And was he shooting at Zeke's group or what?


Did zekes group have to cross that line in order to take walt?



peitsche said:


> well, in this photo, I can make out (at least) as many people as torches...


The tribe has spoken, Jack is voted off the island.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

NoThru22 said:


> Of course I read these threads, as evidenced by the fact that I mentioned the biggest "stretcher" of all, Mr. Jeff Keegan (who is conscipuously absent from this thread. Jeff come back!)


Personally, I thought "keeganistic proportions" was quite funny.

As for the episode, I thought it was OK. I've come to expect very little advancement in the story each week so that part didn't bother me. I was glad to see more insight into Jack and why he was no longer married. I was also glad to see Locke ask Jack, "Who are we to tell anyone what to do?" You'd think that Jack would have paused at that and realized that he has no authority over or duty to any of these people, yet he still persists in trying to control them and determine their actions. The line by his ex about him always needing something to fix was the capper to this story.

As for the Others, I think it would have been much more impressive if all the torches went on at different times, essentially showing that there were several people out there each lighting their own torch. The way they did it made it look like one person somewhere simply flipped a switch and turned the gas on.

I'm always amazed at the fact that the Lostaways seem to be preoccupied with other things when they meet other inhabitants of the island and so they conveniently forget to glean any useful information. If you were stuck on what you thought was a deserted island and then suddenly found out there were other people there, wouldn't you do everything you could to befriend them and learn everything possible from them about your surroundings, their situation, etc.?


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## hanumang (Jan 28, 2002)

jamesbobo said:


> And at the hospital, Jacks father warned him about crossing a line. Is that supposed to mean something?


You mean outside of "Please son, don't hook-up with the _extremely_ attractive daughter, even though her eyes say 'take me Jack!' because your cold-fish of a wife barely speaks to you and you're so morally upright you're about to give yourself back spasms"?

No, I don't think so. 

Jokes aside, I LOVED this episode. I know some people hate Jack - I don't get the emotion, personally - but I think this goes a long way to explaining why Jack appears so controlling - he's the dude that always seems to get put upon. Yes, he almost always _allows_ that to happen because he cares (perhaps a little too much), but still, I like the way the character is being filled out.

I hope Jack 'fixes' the daughter for at least one night in a future flashback.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

devdogaz said:


> If you were stuck on what you thought was a deserted island and then suddenly found out there were other people there, wouldn't you do everything you could to befriend them and learn everything possible from them about your surroundings, their situation, etc.?


Not if I thought they were trying to kill me. Think Ethan. Ethan made the first move, and it was not of goodwill. As far as they know, Ethan and beard man are from the same tribe.


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## loswald (Jan 2, 2002)

Fish Man said:


> Once again, an HD screen grab answers a pivotal question. :up:


It also looks like there are no more than a dozen "others" with torches.

I don't know about there being two different "others" groups. If so, it seems strange that they would _both_ be so interested in taking children?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

I am resigned to the fact that the reason the characters do not share more information is that this is a TV show that needs to maintain its mystery. If the mysteries are solved, the show is over. It just has to be written this way. (The producers have basically said as much)


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## crowfan (Dec 27, 2003)

They could have asked for information till they were blue in the face, that doesn't mean that Zeke would have answered. I agree that that would have been a more plausible scenario, but not by much. I also agree with whoever posted above that they probably weren't thinking too clearly at that moment. But either way, the lostaways (and us) are left without info. 

Just to play devil's advocate...I'm sure Jack's thinking, "Jeez, these people wanted a leader, I step up, and now they don't want to be led."

I agree with Fish Man, I think Zeke is DeGroot.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

hefe said:


> I am resigned to the fact that the reason the characters do not share more information is that this is a TV show that needs to maintain its mystery. If the mysteries are solved, the show is over. It just has to be written this way. (The producers have basically said as much)


Yeah, I'm in agreement there... they need to string it out as long as they can to sell more commercials. Unfortunately, I need to be tempted with more details - my attention is waning. That's why I love Netflixing an entire season over a few weeks. We watched Deadwood and Entourage in December - good stuff!


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## vman (Feb 9, 2001)

If there are different groups, why are they all so interested in taking children? Although, at least one of those groups took more than children -- the tail section group lost several adults as well. 

Meanwhile, if there were so many others surrounding Jack et al, how did they shoot Sawyer without hitting one of their own on the other side?

If I were Jack, I would have had my gun pointed squarely at Zeke throughout and threatened back a bit, especially as Zeke counted down threatening to shoot Kate -- no guarantee they weren't going to kill them all anyway once the guns were down.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I think there are 2 groups. I also think they are at odds with each other. Furthermore, I predict that our Lostaways will befriend one of the groups and end up battling the remaining group....now which group that is, I don't know.


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

_"Zeke, what's it worth to you for us to keep pressing the button? Let's talk."_


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## kschauwe (Sep 17, 2003)

loswald said:


> It also looks like there are no more than a dozen "others" with torches. I don't know about there being two different "others" groups. If so, it seems strange that they would _both_ be so interested in taking children?


Maybe the Torch holders are the Children (brainwashed).


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

NoThru22 said:


> Mr. Jeff Keegan (who is conscipuously absent from this thread. Jeff come back!)


I think he's still sifting through last weeks thread.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

As I was watching, I was disappointed that Jack didn't play hardball when Zeke had a gun to Kate's head. 5thcrewman's comment above, for example, makes sense as something he should have said.

I wasn't even thinking that much, I was just thinking he should have stated the obvious: "So what will happen after you shoot her? You know we're gonna shoot you if you shoot her. Are you willing to die right here, right now, for a piece of land we have no interest in? We just want to leave. Go ahead. Shoot her, and your people will be without their leader, you will be dead and we will have won."

/Mike


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Who says Zeke or his crew know anything about or even care about the button? He told them to stay on their side and they will stay on their side.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

pmyers said:


> Who says Zeke or his crew know anything about or even care about the button? He told them to stay on their side and they will stay on their side.


That's what I am thinking. What is there role in the button thing?

If Desmond would have left before the lostaways ran him off would the other even care about the button.


----------



## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

pmyers said:


> Who says Zeke or his crew know anything about or even care about the button? He told them to stay on their side and they will stay on their side.


I was wondering the same thing. There are a lot of posts here that imply Zeke knows about the hatch, but I can't remember him mentioning it. Did I miss something.

This episode makes me think there is just one group of Others. Also, Zeke does not look like DeGroot to me. He also does not speak or act like the scientist type.

I thought the Jack backstory was very boring. I know learning how Jack broke up with his wife was needed, but couldn't they have made it better TV? Even with uber hottie it was still dull as hell.

I loved the one-liners in this ep, Sawyer's line about his favorite leaf and Locke saying goodbye using his real name: James.


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

His name is not Zeke or Degroot. It's Mr. Friendly. As in the credits.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

This show requires too much home work.


----------



## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

IndyMark said:


> As other posters have speculated, I get the impression there are two distinct groups of Others:
> 
> 1) The Dharma folks (Zeke and his posse - the people running the "project")
> - Have access to a boat and fuel
> ...


I question how much or little Zeke new about the hatch. He didn't say anything definitive when he said "opening doors" and he seemed desperate for the weapons from the Lostaways that came from the hatch in the first place!


----------



## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

And in the real world, what is up with "Skating With Celebrities" beating LOST in the first half hour? Who the hell are all those people lining up to watch Jerry Rice and Stacy Keibler skate?


----------



## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Not sure if any of you read the E! boards but Kristin Veitch their reporter posts over there and here are her speculations and observences:



> A few things you may or may not know:
> 
> *Mr. Beardy/"Zeke" quoted the Dharma video when he said, "Someone a whole lot smarter than any of us once said, 'Since the dawn of our species, man's been blessed with curiosity.'"
> 
> ...


----------



## kjnorman (Jun 21, 2002)

hanumang said:


> Monica Barladeanu, a Romanian _uber_-hottie.
> 
> A (more scandalous) Romanian site for her as already been linked to in this thread, but apparently, outside of Europe, she goes by Monica Dean - that's how she was credited on Lost.


And from the Monica Dean site it states: (spoilered to be safe..)


Spoiler



_In November 2005, Monica Dean got a recurring part in LOST, the no.1 TV show in the United States._

So perhaps she will be back?


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

Vito the TiVo said:


> And in the real world, what is up with "Skating With Celebrities" beating LOST in the first half hour? Who the hell are all those people lining up to watch Jerry Rice and Stacy Keibler skate?


Jerry Rice and Stacy Keibler are from Dancing With the Stars.

But judging from the Skating thread, it's all positive feeback. I guess seeing Jillian Barberie in a skating sequin mini is good TV.


----------



## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

pmyers said:


> Who says Zeke or his crew know anything about or even care about the button? He told them to stay on their side and they will stay on their side.


Why would he have cared if Locke opened "doors to rooms?"


----------



## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

bruinfan said:


> Jerry Rice and Stacy Keibler are from Dancing With the Stars.
> 
> But judging from the Skating thread, it's all positive feeback. I guess seeing Jillian Barberie in a skating sequin mini is good TV.


You should be ashamed that you know this.


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

mwhip said:


> You should be ashamed that you know this.


I'm anonymous, right?

But Stacy Keibler is HOT :up:


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

hanumang said:


> I hope Jack 'fixes' the daughter for at least one night in a future flashback.


Interestingly, immediatly after he kissed the daughter, then said 'no' and walked away from her leaving her crying, he then got into an argument with Locke and Sawyer where he said [paraphrasing], "If we turn our back on Michael now, we'll never find or see him again!".


----------



## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

bruinfan said:


> I'm anonymous, right?
> 
> But Stacy Keibler is HOT :up:


She is hot and I can get my fill if I do a google search or a video google search.


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

> *A friend tells me that the guy (Gabriella's father) who died while Jack was operating showed up in the Dharma video "in the window," but I can't confirm this ... I no longer have the premiere on my Tivo. Does any one else?


I remember that window shot. I don't buy this at all.


----------



## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

2 things:

When are sweeps.....lots of answer coming during that period

Has anyone done a screen grab to see if the guy walking in the hospital corridor as Jack opens the door is in fact Zeke?


----------



## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

Jeeters said:


> I remember that window shot. I don't buy this at all.


The pieces that fit better is that the person in the window was Locke's father.


----------



## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Paperboy2003 said:


> 2 things:
> 
> When are sweeps.....lots of answer coming during that period
> 
> Has anyone done a screen grab to see if the guy walking in the hospital corridor as Jack opens the door is in fact Zeke?


February and May are the last 2 sweeps periods.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Paperboy2003 said:


> 2 things:
> 
> When are sweeps.....lots of answer coming during that period
> 
> Has anyone done a screen grab to see if the guy walking in the hospital corridor as Jack opens the door is in fact Zeke?


Nationwide sweeps (all 210 markets)

February 2 - March 1, 2006

April 27 - May 24, 2006

http://www.nielsenmedia.com/sweeps.html


----------



## hyimted (Apr 13, 2003)

GadgetFreak said:


> Anyone care to help? Thanks.


in a nutshell, jack and his dad were discussing the old man's case. the dad was saying that it was a lost cause. the daughter asked what was going on, etc. that's when the dad said the thing about candor. essentially, jack's dad was trying to prep the old man for the "bad news". or ... something like that ... i don't think i explained it very well.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Jeeters said:


> I remember that window shot. I don't buy this at all.


Is Kristin trying to say that the guy Jack operated on was Alvar Hanso? That's who was shown in the window in the "Orientation" video.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

5thcrewman said:


> The pieces that fit better is that the person in the window was Locke's father.


The film itself (as well as the Hanso Foundation website) states that the person in the window is Alvar Hanso.

Linky to website picture.

Linky to training film.

The actor playing Alvar Hanso is clearly neither the spinal tumor guy Jack tried to save or Locke's father.


----------



## tms317 (May 2, 2003)

Hey, i'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, but when you go to that hansofoundation website (http://www.thehansofoundation.org/alvarhanso.html), and click on alvar hanso, they show his picture...and if you click on his picture, it goes to a 'dos-like' screen (like the one michael was talking to walt) and it says this:
Hello?
>: Hello?
Who is this?
>: Mole.

Then the page wigs out and it looks like something else is supposed to load, but its not loading on my computer....Anyone else see this?

Also, I'm pretty sure this has been mentioned in past threads, but on the Oceanic-air.com website, in the seating chart section--it does imply that "ethan rom" is an anagram for Other Man. Interesting how ABC puts out so many of these Lost websites.


----------



## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

DLiquid said:


> I was wondering the same thing. There are a lot of posts here that imply Zeke knows about the hatch, but I can't remember him mentioning it. Did I miss something.


While making his analogy about guests in someone's house, Zeke says something about "opening doors that weren't supposed to be opened" while looking straight at Locke; the implication is that he was talking about the hatch but he doesn't say anything directly.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

tms317 said:


> Hey, i'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, but when you go to that hansofoundation website (http://www.thehansofoundation.org/alvarhanso.html), and click on alvar hanso, they show his picture...and if you click on his picture, it goes to a 'dos-like' screen (like the one michael was talking to walt) and it says this:
> Hello?
> >: Hello?
> Who is this?
> >: Mole.


If it ever says,

hi

what is this

...please, let me know...


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

tms317 said:


> Hey, i'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, but when you go to that hansofoundation website (http://www.thehansofoundation.org/alvarhanso.html), and click on alvar hanso, they show his picture...and if you click on his picture, it goes to a 'dos-like' screen (like the one michael was talking to walt) and it says this:
> Hello?
> >: Hello?
> Who is this?
> ...


You get the same "wig out" if you click on "active projects" and then "life-extension project"


----------



## tms317 (May 2, 2003)

Yes, Cherry Ghost, that is true.
I wonder if the website is just not finished..or if they are torturing us.


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

NoThru22 said:


> Of course I read these threads, as evidenced by the fact that I mentioned the biggest "stretcher" of all, Mr. Jeff Keegan


Lol. I thought you meant Sir John Keegan. I thought you were making an unprovoked political jibe.


----------



## GadgetFreak (Jun 3, 2002)

hyimted said:


> in a nutshell, jack and his dad were discussing the old man's case. the dad was saying that it was a lost cause. the daughter asked what was going on, etc. that's when the dad said the thing about candor. essentially, jack's dad was trying to prep the old man for the "bad news". or ... something like that ... i don't think i explained it very well.


Thanks for filling me in on the first minute or two which I missed. So the episode started with the flashback? I was wondering because I did not see Michael knock out Locke -- did they show that?


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

tms317 said:


> Yes, Cherry Ghost, that is true.
> I wonder if the website is just not finished..or if they are torturing us.


The latter.

No doubt in my mind. 

The Oceanic Air website seems to have a lot of "broken links" and "bugs" too.

I think these are on purpose, to simulate the website of a bankrupt airline in its death throws.

Similarly, there is evidence on Lost that the Darhma Initiative is still running after a fashion, but is severely broken. The "incompleteness" of the Hanso Foundation website seems to reflect this.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

GadgetFreak said:


> Thanks for filling me in on the first minute or two which I missed. So the episode started with the flashback? I was wondering because I did not see Michael knock out Locke -- did they show that?


The ep started with the flashback, with Jack and his father looking at the x-rays of the tumor and whispering. The daughter then tells them they don't have to whisper as she and her father are prepared for the bad news (or something to that effect).

The first we saw of Locke knocked out in the vault was when Jack found him there and Michael shut them in. We did not see what Michael did to Locke.


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

hefe said:


> I am resigned to the fact that the reason the characters do not share more information is that this is a TV show that needs to maintain its mystery. If the mysteries are solved, the show is over. It just has to be written this way. (The producers have basically said as much)


You're right, I think. That's something that would drive me crazy if I let it. I've just decided that this show has enough going for it that I'll ignore it. It's a weakness that all but the most fanatic Lost fans recognize by now. Just accept it (or stop watching) because it's not going to change.


----------



## Tsiehta (Jul 22, 2002)

hefe said:


> I am resigned to the fact that the reason the characters do not share more information is that this is a TV show that needs to maintain its mystery. If the mysteries are solved, the show is over. It just has to be written this way. (The producers have basically said as much)


And this can only last so long. Quite honestly, many of my LOST friends are expressing frustration with the show. I'm pretty convinced that this show will quickly lose audience and appeal, either by the end of this season, or beginning of next.


----------



## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

tms317 said:


> Hello?
> >: Hello?
> Who is this?
> >: Mole.


OMG, Anderson Cooper is behind all of it!


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Tsiehta said:


> And this can only last so long. Quite honestly, many of my LOST friends are expressing frustration with the show. I'm pretty convinced that this show will quickly lose audience and appeal, either by the end of this season, or beginning of next.


True, although I'm not at that point. I still rather enjoy the slow development.

Basically, the producers have said that they know where the story is going, what the answer to the big mysteries are, but once you get there, it's over. Along the way, there's other things to discover, minor mysteries and character stuff.

I think they need to stay ahead of the curve, and decide before a season if it's going to be the last one. Two seasons, no problem. Three...probably about right. More than that, and I can see things getting too drawn out. Unless there is some major event. It will be interesting to see how long they take it.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

tanstaafl said:


> OMG, Anderson Cooper is behind all of it!


Maybe it's a hint that ABC is going to start airing The Mole again. Not the celebrity crap, but the REAL Mole. I LOVED that show


----------



## jubrand (May 11, 2002)

bruinfan said:


> Haven't you ever been in a situation where you have all these things going thru your head, and then when the ideal time comes, you blank on everything?? Then you say later, I should've said this, I would've said that.


Like "the jerk store called, they're running out of you!"


----------



## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

hefe said:


> I think they need to stay ahead of the curve, and decide before a season if it's going to be the last one. Two seasons, no problem. Three...probably about right. More than that, and I can see things getting too drawn out. Unless there is some major event. It will be interesting to see how long they take it.


On the Season 1 DVD bonus disc either JJ Abrams or the other guy said they had a basic storyline mapped out through 7 seasons.


----------



## jubrand (May 11, 2002)

tms317 said:


> Hey, i'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, but when you go to that hansofoundation website (http://www.thehansofoundation.org/alvarhanso.html), and click on alvar hanso, they show his picture...and if you click on his picture, it goes to a 'dos-like' screen (like the one michael was talking to walt) and it says this:
> Hello?
> >: Hello?
> Who is this?
> ...


Alvar Hanso looks more like Cancer Man from X-Files than anyone else.


----------



## nedthelab (Oct 4, 2002)

Tsiehta said:


> And this can only last so long. Quite honestly, many of my LOST friends are expressing frustration with the show. I'm pretty convinced that this show will quickly lose audience and appeal, either by the end of this season, or beginning of next.


I agree completeley - I said this before - we are quickly heading sown the Who Killed Laura Palmer Twin peak cycle


----------



## Martha (Oct 6, 2002)

nedthelab said:


> I agree completeley - I said this before - we are quickly heading sown the Who Killed Laura Palmer Twin peak cycle


I couldn't agree more. We actually FORGOT this show was even on last night (last season was must see TV). I'm ready for some mysteries to be solved already. I watched about 3 episodes of Twin Peaks before realizing it was heading nowhere and quit watching - if Lost is in the same vein, I will be sorely disappointed. 
And yes, I like story-arcs as much as anybody, but come on!


----------



## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

hefe said:


> I think they need to stay ahead of the curve, and decide before a season if it's going to be the last one. Two seasons, no problem. Three...probably about right. More than that, and I can see things getting too drawn out. Unless there is some major event. It will be interesting to see how long they take it.


Three seasons is about right for me. I can already feel my enthusiasm flagging a bit, especially after seeing the Smoke Monster. I suspect there will be a certain amount of disappointment about any resolution, no matter what it will be.


----------



## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

nedthelab said:


> I agree completeley - I said this before - we are quickly heading sown the Who Killed Laura Palmer Twin peak cycle


Couldn't agree less. Lost will lose viewers that want a mystery solved every episode. Once that group has been "lost," if they actually DO stop watching, it will still be one of the top 10 rated shows for the next few years. Obviously, it can't go on forever, but it is SO SO SO far from losing my interest that I find it amusing to read backlash. It is almost like watching Lost last year was "in." And this year, complaining about it is the new "in."

Here is my question: If Lost has turned into a "Who killed Laura Palmer" question, than WHAT is the comparable question in Lost? What is the Monster? Who are the Others? Where is Walt? If the show is just about answering one question for you, let us know what the question is.


----------



## BrandonSi (Jun 5, 2003)

jradford said:


> Here is my question: If Lost has turned into a "Who killed Laura Palmer" question, than WHAT is the comparable question in Lost? What is the Monster? Who are the Others? Where is Walt? If the show is just about answering one question for you, let us know what the question is.


Never saw Twin Peaks, but here's my one question..

Whats the deal with all the people on the island?


----------



## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

No coffee, no pie, no Agent Cooper, no backwards-talking little person. 
Yup-just like Twin Peaks.


----------



## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

Charon2 said:


> Hurley thinks he has a chance with Abby (or whatever her name is). There was an odd smile last week, but she's a psychiatrist, perhaps she just recognizes him from the hospital?


Man, if Hurley hits that it's definately a fantasy island.



Charon2 said:


> So we finally know why Jack is no longer married. She left him for somebody else. It'll be interesting to see if she left him for somebody who has a connection to the island. I'll have to watch again, but it doesn't seem like she had a good excuse to leave him or cheat on him though.


Jack himself stated to her that he was never around and that they were having problems that were his fault. That's a pretty good reason.



Charon2 said:



> I have to wonder if Jack really thinks it is a good idea to start a war with the Others. They have been on the island much longer, and know it much better.


Maybe he wants an army for defense.

Also, someone else questioned why Jack wouldn't address the Army question with Sayid. He's probably going to, but saw Anna Lucia first.



Charon2 said:


> I was among those who didn't think it was Walt on the other end of the computer chat. However, he was heading in the right direction it would seem, even if the Others sent him off the trail. So if it wasn't Walt, why would they give information that would lead to the Others?


Because they wanted to capture Michael too.



hefe said:


> I am resigned to the fact that the reason the characters do not share more information is that this is a TV show that needs to maintain its mystery. If the mysteries are solved, the show is over. It just has to be written this way. (The producers have basically said as much)


As opposed to what? It's a TV show that's different than the way it's written? It's a reality show?


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

spartanstew said:


> As opposed to what? It's a TV show that's different than the way it's written? It's a reality show?


Seems you think it is...Jack talked to Ana Lucia first because he saw her first? Because of the chance physical proximity of these two people, and not because of a choice by the writers for Jack to work with her on this?

I don't see what is hard to understand about my statement. I am simply pointing out that the very nature of this show necessitates the story unfolding slowly, and that the characters are going to have to behave a certain way that at times does not seem like what real people would do in their situations. If the Big Mystery wasn't the end game of the show, you might have people acting to more efficiently address the questions they have...


----------



## Fahtrim (Apr 12, 2004)

RegBarc said:


> Exactly. Jack's acting, along with his wife, was absolutely superb to me. Maybe I could see the point others made about a weak episode, but the acting was delicious.


During the "flashback" scenes his acting was decent. During the island scenes, nobody can make that crappy writing look good.


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Well, they drank all of the coffee, ate all of the food (and pie?), there was an Agent around in the beginning, and didn't Walt speak backwards once?

_(ducks and runs)_


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

> And at the hospital, Jacks father warned him about crossing a line. Is that supposed to mean something?


 First off, it means don't tell your wife you were swapping spit with a hot Italian woman, moron. Really, it means Jack can't live with the guilt of not being perfect. Mr Friendly seemed to know this, hence his question to Jack: "Could you live with seeing this woman killed in front of you when you could have walked away and saved her?"

With that and the mental mindtrick(s) they pulled on Michael, it's obvious they are part of Dharma. Or what's left. Interesting that they seemingly couldn't go down and talk to the survivors, they had to draw them up to the "line". Are the Others not allowed to cross the line either?

Funny how Locke "changed the combo", but it was 25 - 29 (and something) last episode and it's 25 - 29 (and something) this episode. _Ah, the old Fake Changing The Combo Bit! I should've known!_

When Mr Friendly first started to talk, I thought it sounded like Jack's dad. It was an odd moment. On a similar note, in the earlier scene with the doctor walking by when Jack's dad leaves the room - he doesn't look like Mr Friendly to me. He's taller than MF.

I disagree with the sharing of info. In this episode information was shown passed around quite a bit, more than any time I can remember. Everyone found out that Michael left, "went commando", and took off after Walt - *again*. So everyone had to know about the first time, too. Even Ana-Lucia hears about him.

And Locke did try to ask some meaningful questions - he started with "How do you know our names?" but Jack decided chit-chat could wait and blew in with his Michael questions. To paraphrase, when you're up to your armpits in Others it's hard to remember your original goal was to get off the island. 

I like the idea that Sawyer calls him Zeke, as in Ezekiel. A prophet among exiles, indeed.

Jack went to Ana-Lucia about an army because he has absolutely no military tactical sense about him whatsoever. I'd bet the dog could kick his ass in Risk. No sense of intelligence (as in military), no evaluation ability, nothing. He got surrounded by 20 people and didn't know it but more importantly, doesn't know what that means. Eko knows, even though he wasn't there.

Interesting episode.


----------



## sanjose_mike (Sep 14, 2003)

Did anyone figure out why in the first season Walt told Locke before he left on the raft, "don't go down there" or don't go down the hatch, or something like that or how he knew about the hatch.

also what if Zeke and the others can't cross the imaginary line themselves because of some quarantine thing, or crazy magnetism reason. I don't remember the "others" ever visiting the original survivors, and once the taillies crossed the island, the "others" haven't bothered them.


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

jradford said:


> Couldn't agree less. Lost will lose viewers that want a mystery solved every episode. Once that group has been "lost," if they actually DO stop watching, it will still be one of the top 10 rated shows for the next few years. Obviously, it can't go on forever, but it is SO SO SO far from losing my interest that I find it amusing to read backlash. It is almost like watching Lost last year was "in." And this year, complaining about it is the new "in."
> 
> Here is my question: If Lost has turned into a "Who killed Laura Palmer" question, than WHAT is the comparable question in Lost? What is the Monster? Who are the Others? Where is Walt? If the show is just about answering one question for you, let us know what the question is.


Where's Walto?


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

spartanstew said:


> Man, if Hurley hits that it's definately a fantasy island.


Oh, I dunno about that....

The same actress played a character who fell for Drew Carey!


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

I'm puzzled why some people are so annoyed that no more questions were asked of Zeke and his people.

It's clear that they are dangerous as well as weird and creepy people, whoever they may be. It's a pretty forgone conclusion that they won't tell the Lostaways anything that they don't want them to know. Had Jack, Locke, et. al. asked Zeke questions, he wouldn't have answered anyway.

Zeke knows so much about the Lostaways he surely knows that they are survivors of a plane crash. Heck, I'm not ready to rule out the possibility that Zeke's people (Darhma folks) may even have set up the crash somehow!

It seems almost a certainty that Zekes people are well aware that the Lostaways are in the hatch, pushing the button. Why is it almost a certainty? Because someone was in _another hatch/bunker_ communicating with Michael. If it was actually Walt, we know that Zeke is the one who took Walt. If it was a ruse to trap Michael, then it was Zeke or one of his people pretending to be Walt. Either way, Zeke's people must have access to _another Darhma bunker_ in order to communicate to the computer in the bunker our Lostaways are in!

So, in light of all this, there is something much, much, much deeper going on than "Don't cross this line. You stay on your side, we'll stay on ours."

Zeke's people have some nefarious plan involving certain members of the Lostaways. There's *no way in hell* Zeke is going to give the Lostaways any useful information, and this fact is obvious to Jack.

This is why Jack now wants to build an "army". He fixes things. He's going to try to "fix" this situation with Zeke's people!

And that's scary. That's suspenseful. IMHO, that's _good and compelling_ writing!


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

The only sure way to find out if Zeke would have given them any answers was to ask questions. Then you analyze the answers or non-answers for information or misinformation. An analysis of silence gives you bupkis.

I find Jack's idea of building an army to be ridiculous. With people like Charlie and Hurley, you're going to end up with F-Troop. They're be better off concentrating their efforts into forming a small commando group - Sayid, Eko, Freckles, Ana Lucia, Locke & Sawyer into an elite fighting unit. Although the producers of Lost portray Jack as *the* leader, I don't see him as having the skills to lead that group. I'd add Jin to that group but his wife de-balled him this episode.


----------



## Chandler Mike (Mar 29, 2002)

Fish Man said:


> It seems almost a certainty that Zekes people are well aware that the Lostaways are in the hatch, pushing the button. Why is it almost a certainty? Because someone was in _another hatch/bunker_ communicating with Michael.


There are some who think that Michael is going crazy, much like the French woman said of her crew (or whoever was with her when they shipwrecked).

And that he's imaging all the things happening on the screen.

For example...when Jack walked up, suddenly the screen was blank.

Or was it blank the entire time?

Mike


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Chandler Mike said:


> There are some who think that Michael is going crazy, much like the French woman said of her crew (or whoever was with her when they shipwrecked).
> 
> And that he's imaging all the things happening on the screen.
> 
> ...


I certainly regard that as a possibility.

However, Michael seemed to know _exactly_ where he was going, which was sort of implied to be exactly where Zeke _wanted him to go._

"His trail is as straight as an Interstate."

The other explanation for the blank screen would be that Zeke's people have the bunker under observation, and blanked it when Jack walked in the room. (Michael may have found a hot-key that blanks the screen too, and we just didn't see him subtly hit it, but this is rather less likely.)

Of course, if Michael did imagine the contact with Walt, it could simply be that Zeke and his crew know exactly where Michael is going because they have him, along with all the other Lostaways, under observation.

EDIT:

Another thought:

Locke, Sawyer, and Jack may have been following a _fake trail the entire time._

Zeke and his people may have created a fake trail to lead them into the confrontation that they set up.

At one point, early in their search, Locke said with a hint of uncertianty: "I _think_ that's Michael's boot print." Later, because the trail was so straight and fairly easy to follow, he became more confident. But, maybe, that was exactly the intent of Zeke and crew!

Michael could be traveling an entirely different direction!


----------



## scotthemme (Mar 8, 2005)

Fish Man said:


> Michael may have found a hot-key that blanks the screen too, and we just didn't see him subtly hit it, but this is rather less likely.


I personally think this to be very unlikely. Typing anything other than the code is strictly forbidden and Michael making any move toward the keyboard would be most likely noticed by Jack.


----------



## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Some people have been saying Walt is the only visble "other" in this picture at the top a little to the right.


----------



## KRS (Jan 30, 2002)

I liked seeing Charlie and Hurley chillin' in the hatch, listening to some tunes. I was hoping that they would come across an old Driveshaft record, but I suppose the record collection was amassed before their time.

Didn't Desmond say that there was another guy manning the button who just ran off awhile after he showed up? And weren't we all speculating that this "other man" was Ethan? So if Ethan was pressing the button, he must have been involved with the experiment. If Mr. F really did not know of Ethan, that would suggest that his group of others was not involved with that part of the experiment. Maybe Mr. F and crew were the ones being experimented on - maybe the Dharma group got them to volunteer to be a part of it, promising that once the experiment was over, Dharma would come and get them. Then everything went south (the incident), and the island was abandoned. Now everyone still left on the island has gone a bit nutters and the Dharma group is no more.


----------



## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> ...With people like Charlie and Hurley, you're going to end up with F-Troop.
> 
> I'd add Jin to that group but his wife de-balled him this episode.
> 
> They're be better off concentrating their efforts into forming a small commando group - Sayid, Eko, Freckles, Ana Lucia, Locke & Sawyer into an elite fighting unit.


lol! you are funny, cheesesteak!! I like the idea of the commando group!


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

> Some people have been saying Walt is the only visble "other" in this picture at the top a little to the right.


So the guy bottom left corner right by the camera doesn't count?


----------



## thenightfly42 (Mar 5, 2002)

Fish Man said:


> Locke, Sawyer, and Jack may have been following a _fake trail the entire time._
> 
> Zeke and his people may have created a fake trail to lead them into the confrontation that they set up.
> 
> ...


But, they found his bullet casings. They seemed pretty confident about that.


----------



## KRS (Jan 30, 2002)

MickeS said:


> So the guy bottom left corner right by the camera doesn't count?


I can see 5 or 6 unknown people.


----------



## chavez (Nov 18, 2004)

Well, I would mowed down Zeke as soon as he started talking, putting myself in their situation. 50 days on an island, people killed, kidnapped, terrorized.


----------



## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

KRS said:


> I can see 5 or 6 unknown people.


I can't see any of them as distinctly as the little black kid at the top right.


----------



## UBUBUB (Dec 1, 2005)

PJO1966 said:


> I wasn't floored by this show, but it did progress the story. I guess the speculation that Jack's marriage ended because he was gay was put to rest.
> 
> What about the episode puts that to rest? Let's see, Jack had a loveless marriage. We've seen him be kissed by two women, both of whom he has pulled away from. The look on his face when Kate kissed him looked like Kevin McCarthy's when he kissed Dana Wynter in Body Snatchers. I don't know, I still think Jack just doesn't have a thing for the ladies.


----------



## hyimted (Apr 13, 2003)

> With people like Charlie and Hurley, you're going to end up with F-Troop.


 that totally cracked me up.

this show could easily go on or at least another two or three seasons. there's so much leeway for the writers it's ridiculous. for me, the show isn't even about solving a mystery, it's about identifying and knowing the characters. i can't think of the last time i actually _cared _ about the characters. that's what holds me each week.


----------



## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

sanjose_mike said:


> also what if Zeke and the others can't cross the imaginary line themselves because of some quarantine thing, or crazy magnetism reason. I don't remember the "others" ever visiting the original survivors, and once the taillies crossed the island, the "others" haven't bothered them.


I thought Zeke warned them about the line because if they crossed it, they'd enter the producer's camp on the island, forfeit the game and be voted off the island.


----------



## catcard (Mar 2, 2001)

Delta13 said:


> When Mr Friendly first started to talk, I thought it sounded like Jack's dad. It was an odd moment.


Yes, I thought it was Jack's dad, too. We still don't know what happened to him since his body was missing from his coffin. Maybe he is alive with the Others? If John can get his legs back, it is possible for dead people to come back to life?


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

mwhip said:


> Some people have been saying Walt is the only visble "other" in this picture at the top a little to the right.


Man, I don't see that at all.

The clearest "other" in the top area of the picture (maybe 1/6 of the picture width right of center) looks like an adult black _woman_ to me.

Looks more like Rose than Walt!


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

thenightfly42 said:


> But, they found his bullet casings. They seemed pretty confident about that.


Ah, yes.

Good point.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

UBUBUB said:


> PJO1966 said:
> 
> 
> > I wasn't floored by this show, but it did progress the story. I guess the speculation that Jack's marriage ended because he was gay was put to rest.
> ...


the Jack's gay theory just cracks me up.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

It's really stretching it, saying that's Walt in that picture. It's not clear enough to make out anyone's features. Only Locke is recognizable and that's only because he's bald.


----------



## DougF (Mar 18, 2003)

I enjoyed the hell out of this episode. I was as frustrated as anyone that we didn't get more answers during the campfire talk. But if the answers come too quickly, the show can't last as long. Let's face it, the show is going to run for at least four years (syndication). They are going to have to drag some things out to get to that point.


----------



## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

So when Zeke said "don't worry about Michael he won't find us" does that mean that Ethan's group snatched him up? Or Danielle or Desmond?


----------



## lander215 (Jan 10, 2003)

Delta13 said:


> Well, they drank all of the coffee, ate all of the food (and pie?), there was an Agent around in the beginning, and didn't Walt speak backwards once?
> 
> _(ducks and runs)_


LOL DARN YOU! I'm sitting here trying to figure out what snur dna skcud had to do with anything!


----------



## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

tanstaafl said:


> While making his analogy about guests in someone's house, Zeke says something about "opening doors that weren't supposed to be opened" while looking straight at Locke; the implication is that he was talking about the hatch but he doesn't say anything directly.


I think you're remembering the scene wrong. He says that to Jack, and it's Jack who looks over at Locke.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

NoThru22 said:


> They didn't outnumber the "Lostaways." There are around 45 people on that beach and there weren't 45 torches.
> 
> This is a reach of Keeganistic proportions.




I must have been sleepy watching it Wed night, because I don't even remember what this Geronimo Jackson reference is all about.. Gotta re-watch it.


----------



## TRD_Dan (Oct 13, 2005)

I'm not following the theory that the "Others" can't cross the line. You can clearly see in the picture that Jack and crew are sur"round"ed, not sur"half-circle"d.


----------



## RunnerFL (May 10, 2005)

Greg K. said:


> http://www.geronimojackson.com/
> 
> I'll bet these guys are going to be getting a lot of hits, and they have the following:
> 
> ...


Considering the domain was just created on the day the show aired I'd be willing to bet it's either a fan site or was setup by ABC with more clues like all the other sites.

Domain Name: GERONIMOJACKSON.COM
Registrar: GO DADDY SOFTWARE, INC.
Whois Server: whois.godaddy.com
Referral URL: http://registrar.godaddy.com
Name Server: PARK5.SECURESERVER.NET
Name Server: PARK6.SECURESERVER.NET
Status: REGISTRAR-LOCK
Updated Date: 18-jan-2006
Creation Date: 18-jan-2006
Expiration Date: 18-jan-2007


----------



## RunnerFL (May 10, 2005)

Fish Man said:


> It has been my guess, ever since we saw the orientation film, that Zeke/Bearded Man/Mr. Friendly is Gerold DeGroot (the director of the Darhma Intuitive, under Alvar Hanso, according to the orientation film).


A while back imdb.com screwed up and posted his actual character name, they since changed it back to "bearded man" or something like that. If imdb.com was right, and I wouldn't think they were wrong, he is not DeGroot.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

RunnerFL said:


> Considering the domain was just created on the day the show aired I'd be willing to bet it's either a fan site or was setup by ABC with more clues like all the other sites.
> 
> Domain Name: GERONIMOJACKSON.COM
> Registrar: GO DADDY SOFTWARE, INC.
> ...


It could change in the future but right now geronimojackson.com redirects to weird stuff at cafepress.com. Perhaps they're going to sell posters and t-shirts with Geronimo Jackson?

Greg


----------



## scotthemme (Mar 8, 2005)

gchance said:


> It could change in the future but right now geronimojackson.com redirects to weird stuff at cafepress.com. Perhaps they're going to sell posters and t-shirts with Geronimo Jackson?
> 
> Greg


Or, the owners are fans of the show and/or boards such as this one and knew that registering that domain and redirecting it to their site would result in a huge increase in their traffic. Brilliant!


----------



## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

Okay, I've read 215 posts and I have come to a couple of conclusions. First, I think that Zeke and company can clearly see into the bunker. His comments to Locke make that a reasonable conclusion. Second, they are desperate for firearms, and exploited Michael's love for his son, feeding him information as to where he could find Walt, knowing that he would not hesitate to go after Walt, armed. They probably counted on at least some people to go after Michael. Their intent was not to answer questions but to tell the lostaways that they are being allowed to live, to stay in their part of the island, and out of the "others" business, and leave the guns! When they saw Jack moving, THEY blanked the screen so Jack couldn't read what that had written to Michael, or Jack would have stopped him right there.

This might lend some support to the two groups on the island, besides the lostaways.

Oh, and Locke calling Sawyer "James" was a not too subtle jab back at Sawyer for him calling Locke "Mister Clean". What was the line, something like, "All you need is a mop and a white t-shirt to complete the image," or something like that. It was a comeback.

It's pretty obvious that Zeke and the woman who drove the boat were the couple in the orientation video.

It is television though, so the writers are likely leaving lots of red herrings for us to get tripped up on, so what is obvious might not be correct.


----------



## Lord Magneto (Jan 19, 2006)

Could it be that Jack's wife left him for someone else that is someone related to the other people on the island with Jack. 

We will probably find out later waaaay later that Jack's wife left him for Boon or someone like that... maybe Sawyer haha wouldnt that be funny


----------



## darthrsg (Jul 25, 2005)

the shows name says it all


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

darthrsg said:


> the shows name says it all


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3692474&&#post3692474


----------



## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

Church AV Guy said:


> It's pretty obvious that Zeke and the woman who drove the boat were the couple in the orientation video.


I don't think it's all that obvious, despite photo collages people have made like this one:










To me, DeGroot looks more like a rabbi, and Zeke looks more like some guy you would try to avoid eye contact with in a country bar. In fact, in M.C. Gainey's (the actor who plays the character we're calling Zeke) IMDB profile, the description is:



> This threatening-looking, usually-mustached actor frequently plays hillbilly-type criminals up to no good.


That's exactly what he seems like in LOST, not a lab coat scientist. Still, it wouldn't surprise me too much to learn that they are the same person, since it would fit in with the story, but if so I don't think they did a very good job picking the two actors.


----------



## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

Well considering they have spent 20+ years on a deserted island with freaky things happening, I can imagine one could go from rabbi to country bar guy rather quickly.


----------



## Lost Dog (Jan 10, 2003)

Lord Magneto said:


> Could it be that Jack's wife left him for someone else that is someone related to the other people on the island with Jack.
> 
> We will probably find out later waaaay later that Jack's wife left him for Boon or someone like that... maybe Sawyer haha wouldnt that be funny


Desmond. There were already several clues.


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

DLiquid said:


> I think you're remembering the scene wrong. He says that to Jack, and it's Jack who looks over at Locke.


Nope, it's right. MF asks, "You walk in the kitchen and eat food that doesn't belong to you?" MF then turns his head and looks right at Locke and says, "Open doors to rooms you got no business opening?"

*Then* Jack looks at Locke. Locke in turn raises his eyebrows in obvious surprise.

The "take your shoes off" comment may or may not be a figure of speech, but the kitchen and rooms comments are clear indicators of knowledge on the Others' part.


----------



## hanumang (Jan 28, 2002)

RunnerFL said:


> A while back imdb.com screwed up and posted his actual character name, they since changed it back to "bearded man" or something like that. If imdb.com was right, and I wouldn't think they were wrong, he is not DeGroot.


Actually, the IMDB database is based on user submissions (though screened somewhat by IMDB staff members) and, as such, are quite frequently wrong when it comes to material that cannot be verified against final, exhaustive credits (ie. films/shows yet to be [theatrically] released/broadcast or only just so).

I'm not trying to blow a whole in your argument -- really  -- just wanted to clarify that since IMDB would certainly seem 'official.' Sadly, it's not.


----------



## skanter (May 28, 2003)

dba62 said:


> Jack was too busy trying to push a no win situation to stop to think to ask an intelligent question.


Really! What's with the moronic macho BS? Two guys are -surrounded- by a large group of armed M'others', and he and Locke are gonna -shoot- their way out?


----------



## RegBarc (Feb 18, 2003)

skanter said:


> Really! What's with the moronic macho BS? Two guys are -surrounded- by a large group of armed M'others', and he and Locke are gonna -shoot- their way out?


People with the personalities Jack has rarely, rarely, rarely give up destiny from their hands. They want to control their own fate. The guns were an extension of their own control, and Jack knew that.

And yes, I was screaming through the 4th wall for them to drop 'em.


----------



## cptodd (Jun 30, 2002)

RegBarc said:


> Maybe I am reading too much into this, but we are all somewhat aware of the connection between John Locke the character and John Locke the philosopher.


I have to say that that never came up in my mind ever until you noted that they have the same name.


----------



## cptodd (Jun 30, 2002)

OK I AM MOST LIKELY SMEEKING BUT I HAD TO AIR THIS:


I have to say that I have been a bit sick of these folks for a long time. They are sneaky and hide things from each other. No more so that that damn doc who seems to think that everyone else is a damn moron who needs protecting from themselves. If that fool Michael wants to run off into the jungle and get himself killed to rescue his son what makes Jack think he has the right to stop him? People who want to be rescued do not hit their rescuers over the head, point guns at them and finally lock them in a secured room. Also, what right does he have to scream down someone who wants to rush on like a fool to rescue a fool? Perhaps he did not want to take her because she was a "girl" but Kate should have looked at him and laughed in his face. Crazy Locke should have left when he said that it was getting dark and they should go back. But no JACK has to strong-arm folks into following his vision.

They are all on an island that seems to be quite dangerous and Jack (and many of the others) believes that withholding information from people is a good thing. They need to try and build consensus around how best to protect themselves. But one can't do that in the absence of information can they? They have first hand knowledge of how dangerous "the others" are and yet because of their secretiveness and backbiting they have not done much about that threat. Also, you would think that once they heard about the devastating losses visited upon the people in the tail section that they would redouble (or more like re-tripple) their lackluster efforts at protection. BUT NO! Finally, don't you think they should also try and hold on to the only person with medical training? This would mean that GI Jack would be the LAST person running into the jungle. 

If I were that wife I would have left his emotionally detached ass long ago. What makes him think he should tell her that he kissed that woman? I can see if he did the nasty in the OR or something but that was not the case. She was an emotional basket case after the death of her father and she reached out to him. Perhaps she wanted to do that the entire time. Perhaps he wanted her to do that the entire time. There was a moment of weakness and he came to the conclusion that he should not be doing that. if he enjoyed it to the point that it was a problem eh could go to therapy and tell someone but NOOOOOO. Jack wanted that relationship to end. He had to go racing home with all of his guilt and angst and break down over the dishes and blurt out nonsense about some half ass kiss! Again, I say that he was looking to end that relationship. But she had something for him didn't she! He didn't see that one coming. And that is because he is SO detached!


Now back to your regularly scheduled posts!


----------



## RunnerFL (May 10, 2005)

hanumang said:


> Actually, the IMDB database is based on user submissions (though screened somewhat by IMDB staff members) and, as such, are quite frequently wrong when it comes to material that cannot be verified against final, exhaustive credits (ie. films/shows yet to be [theatrically] released/broadcast or only just so).
> 
> I'm not trying to blow a whole in your argument -- really  -- just wanted to clarify that since IMDB would certainly seem 'official.' Sadly, it's not.


Well crap, and here I thought imdb was the "bible" for us movie/tv fanatics.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

DLiquid said:


> I don't think it's all that obvious, despite photo collages people have made like this one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've seen casting in TV shows and movies of two different actors playing the older/younger version of the same person where the two actors cast as the older/younger looked much less alike than in this collage. (Think Tom Hanks vs. Dabbs Greer in "The Green Mile". Sheesh! Not even close! Yet they were cast as old/young versions of the same character!)

So, I think it's a _distinct_ possibility that the casting people consider these actors to indeed resemble older/younger versions of the same character.

As to what a scientist is supposed to act like.....

If there's anything I noticed in my college days it's that if there is one word that could describe almost all professor types, it would be "eccentric".

The personalities and mannerisms of the many scientist / professor types I've known has been all over the map! Scientists working with "paranormal" phenomena like the DeGroots were would be likely to be particularly eccentric.

If you would like to meet some Ph.D holding scientists with stratospheric IQ's that talk and have the mannerisms of southern hicks, come to New Orleans some time and I'll introduce you to some! 

Finally, if Zeke is DeGroot, I think we can conclude he's gone crazy. That would toss anything we might assume about his mannerisms or speech patterns out the window anyway.


----------



## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

Delta13 said:


> Nope, it's right. MF asks, "You walk in the kitchen and eat food that doesn't belong to you?" MF then turns his head and looks right at Locke and says, "Open doors to rooms you got no business opening?"
> 
> *Then* Jack looks at Locke. Locke in turn raises his eyebrows in obvious surprise.
> 
> The "take your shoes off" comment may or may not be a figure of speech, but the kitchen and rooms comments are clear indicators of knowledge on the Others' part.


To avoid confusion with the cuss phrase Mother F'er, can we please call Mr. Friendly, Mr. F instead?


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

scheckeNYK said:


> To avoid confusion with the cuss phrase Mother F'er, can we please call Mr. Friendly, Mr. F instead?


But then we'll confuse him with the Mr. F from Arrested Development...


----------



## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

hefe said:


> But then we'll confuse him with the Mr. F from Arrested Development...


Indeed. That was the joke. Glad someone got it. I actually hardly ever contribute anything to the forums other than to make obscure cross reference inside jokes.


----------



## Mike20878 (Jun 8, 2001)

Do we know the gender of all the people kidnapped so far? I wonder if the kids are being kidnapped to be indoctrinated into the group so they can replace the older members who will eventually die off. And possibly women are being abducted for procreation.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Lost Dog said:


> Desmond. There were already several clues.


I thought Desmond left for his race the day after he met Jack. Jack's wife was still recovering in the hospital at that time. But I would think by the time his wife left him, Desmond had already taken off for his race. So it wouldn't seem to fit chronolgically if Desmond was the guy she was seeing?


----------



## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

Lord Magneto said:


> We will probably find out later waaaay later that Jack's wife left him for.. maybe Sawyer haha wouldnt that be funny


Several threads ago I proposed that Jack's wife left him for Sawyer. This could still be the case - Sawyer working his con, but could never maneuver getting Jack and his wife together to get the cash.

It would absolutely make the Jack-kate-Sawyer triangle more interesting.


----------



## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

Mike20878 said:


> Do we know the gender of all the people kidnapped so far? I wonder if the kids are being kidnapped to be indoctrinated into the group so they can replace the older members who will eventually die off. And possibly women are being abducted for procreation.


There doesn't appear to be any gender bias.

Alex is female, Walt is male, the two tail-section kids were one boy and one girl, Claire (female) was carrying Aaron (male). The rest of the tailies who were taken were also a mix.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

scheckeNYK said:


> Indeed. That was the joke. Glad someone got it. I actually hardly ever contribute anything to the forums other than to make obscure cross reference inside jokes.


Will we have to hear the muscial "Mr. F" theme each time we see him?


----------



## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

hefe said:


> Will we have to hear the muscial "Mr. F" theme each time we see him?


I know I've been hearing it in my head everytime I read "Mr. F" in this thread.


----------



## lordrichter (Jan 11, 2003)

cptodd said:


> OK I AM MOST LIKELY SMEEKING BUT I HAD TO AIR THIS:


If I recall correctly, the writers/producers of Lost made is clear last season that the story is about the characters, not the island, so all these character flaws make perfect sense. If everyone talked things out and took the time to trust each other, there would be a lot less to tell about the characters.


----------



## Lost Dog (Jan 10, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:


> I thought Desmond left for his race the day after he met Jack. Jack's wife was still recovering in the hospital at that time. But I would think by the time his wife left him, Desmond had already taken off for his race. So it wouldn't seem to fit chronolgically if Desmond was the guy she was seeing?


I think the biggest clue was the picture in the hatch from the episode "Orientation". When Desmond was running out it focused on it briefly. It's a bit obscured but you can see Desmond and a lady... A HD screen grab may be able to clear it up more but I think it's her.

I tried lightening it up with The Gimp so it's a bit messy but I still think it's her (the original was really dark)


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

HD screengrab.










Definitely not Sarah.


----------



## lordrichter (Jan 11, 2003)

Reminds me more of Shannon than Sarah...


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Incidently, the first result returned from images.google of 'hawaii harbor' is the exact skyline from the Desmond/Girlfriend picture. Obviously, since they film in Hawaii it was an easy location to grab a picture from. But, since they could have easily faked any skyline or location it's probably okay to put Desmond in Hawaii at the time of the photograph.

Not that that knowledge helps any.

http://www.martygast.com/travel/imagepages/image16.html


----------



## Lost Dog (Jan 10, 2003)

lordrichter said:


> Reminds me more of Shannon than Sarah...


Hmm... I must be out of it. Seeing the HD image made me think "Yup, that's her!" In the photo she's smiling so it's extending her jaw down a bit but they have the same jaw line.


----------



## lordrichter (Jan 11, 2003)

In my estimation, mouth and nose are wrong for Sarah.

I can always be wrong, though. Not the best quality pic.


----------



## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

I wonder what Dwight from 'The Office' would make of all of this...


----------



## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

lordrichter said:


> In my estimation, mouth and nose are wrong for Sarah.
> 
> I can always be wrong, though. Not the best quality pic.


I don't know much, but I know Julie Bowen...and that's not Julie Bowen.


----------



## cptodd (Jun 30, 2002)

lordrichter said:


> If I recall correctly, the writers/producers of Lost made is clear last season that the story is about the characters, not the island, so all these character flaws make perfect sense. If everyone talked things out and took the time to trust each other, there would be a lot less to tell about the characters.


Oh I know that. If they acted the way they were supposed to act there would be very little show. It is just that it is frustrating to me.


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

If you can't see that's some ugly chick you need to turn the brightness on your monitor WAY up.


----------



## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

did a quick search in this thread, didnt see anything

anyone check out this site? 
http://www.newbabynews.net/hospitals/sh7/public/sacredheartbirthannouncement.pl?babyID=h7-7387

and check out the date this kids book started to blow up
http://www.newbabynews.net/hospitals/sh7/public/babyBookView.php3?babyID=h7-7387


----------



## nedthelab (Oct 4, 2002)

what the heck is the previous post about?????


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

I don't know but they talk about Geronimo Jackson in them. Can't figure out any relevance, but I'm too lazy to read them thoroughly.


----------



## RegBarc (Feb 18, 2003)

Test said:


> did a quick search in this thread, didnt see anything
> 
> anyone check out this site?
> http://www.newbabynews.net/hospitals/sh7/public/sacredheartbirthannouncement.pl?babyID=h7-7387
> ...


Dude...what the heck?


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

RegBarc said:


> Dude...what the heck?


It's a link to a newborn named Geronimo Jackson, just like the name on the album they play in the bunker...Google gone wild, I guess.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Heads up, http://www.geronimo-jackson.com/ now links to a real site. Go-Daddy.com is hiding the true registrar.










There's a picture of the band:










The album is called Macna Carta. When you view the source of the page, embedded in the meta tags for search engines is the label:

Locke and Key Records

Other meta tags:

not just a number
other man
on my own feet again
down in a hole
smoke and mirrors
other side of the tracks
born again

How much you wanna bet John Locke was a member?

You all, everybody.

Greg


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

I sense that someone is pulling our collective leg. There may be some significance to the band Geronimo Jackson, since they did seem to spend time on it for no particularly reason, but Locke being a member would be a stretch.

(The spelling errors on their page do not help, either.)


----------



## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

Delta13 said:


> I sense that someone is pulling our collective leg. There may be some significance to the band Geronimo Jackson, since they did seem to spend time on it for no particularly reason, but Locke being a member would be a stretch.
> 
> (The spelling errors on their page do not help, either.)


It's definitely not an official site. The easiest way to know if a site is officially affiliated with the show is if it has a link to the Disney privacy policy somewhere on it.

thehansofoundation.org and oceanic-air.com both have links to the Disney privacy policy.

Also, the registration date is always a good clue. GeronimoJackson.com was regisitered on Wednesday. On the other hand, thehansofoundation.org was registered in July, long before it was first mentioned on the show.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

By the way, the official podcast for this week is out. 

This week's agenda:
The rest of the interview with Harold Perrineau (Michael)
Producers Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindeloff discuss:
Some items from last week's episode
A preview of this weeks' episode, including a hint at where to look for an "Easter egg."
Answer some email questions.

By the way, they specifically are asked things like "Why hasn't Hurley lost weight" and "why did Locke and Eko face down the monster, but the pilot was killed?"

If you are worried about spoilers, IMO, what they give us don't amount to spoilers. They intentionally keep the mysteries well hidden. The most they do is say something like, some particular storyline will be resolved this season, or we'll be seeing more about this in a later episode. They even teased the fact that Hurley's weight will be addressed in some fashion in the future. So nothing real detailed, they play very coy with the answers they give, and sometimes just joke around and don't even answer it if it's too big of a plot point.


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

There are those of us who are deaf and therefore unable to listen to the podcasts. Are there any known transcripts out there?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

tewcewl said:


> There are those of us who are deaf and therefore unable to listen to the podcasts. Are there any known transcripts out there?


That's a good question. I don't know. The only podcast I know of offhand that actually provides transcripts is Security Now! with Leo Laporte and Steve Gibson. I don't know about any others...


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## Tanya (Apr 23, 2003)

The other question to be answered - why is the island baby growing so freakishly fast? That baby looks more like an eight month old than a month (or less) old. I know breastmilk is best, but shesh!


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## tivotvaddict (Aug 11, 2005)

Ok, I've read through all 9 pages of discussion so I don't think this is a smeek, but it also may be way off the mark...

When the hunting party meets up with the Mr. Friendly and Sawyer shoots at them and then gets injured..... My take on this is that the bullet somehow _*ricocheted * _ off some sort of "force field." The hunting party pretty much gives up at this point, knowing that their guns are fairly useless.

On another note, I love how Sawyer gives everyone nicknames like Freckles and Zeke the hillbilly.


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## Mike20878 (Jun 8, 2001)

getbak said:


> There doesn't appear to be any gender bias.
> 
> Alex is female, Walt is male, the two tail-section kids were one boy and one girl, Claire (female) was carrying Aaron (male). The rest of the tailies who were taken were also a mix.


I should have been more specific. Is there a gender bias towards *adults*? Obviously, children cannot bear children.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

NoThru22 said:


> HD screengrab.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree...I don't think that looks like Sara at all.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Delta13 said:


> I sense that someone is pulling our collective leg. There may be some significance to the band Geronimo Jackson, since they did seem to spend time on it for no particularly reason, but Locke being a member would be a stretch.
> 
> (The spelling errors on their page do not help, either.)


I just watched the episode again, the picture on the album is the same, so unless the person did a screenshot and warped it (the album was displayed at a weird angle) I don't see how they would have gotten the picture.

Then again the Dharma film looked damn good, too (the web version).

Greg


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## jfjellstad (May 6, 2002)

tivotvaddict said:


> When the hunting party meets up with the Mr. Friendly and Sawyer shoots at them and then gets injured..... My take on this is that the bullet somehow _*ricocheted * _ off some sort of "force field." The hunting party pretty much gives up at this point, knowing that their guns are fairly useless.


Nothing like that happened. Sawyer moved forward, was about to shoot when he got shot in the neck. Sawyer never got a shot off.


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

jfjellstad said:


> Nothing like that happened. Sawyer moved forward, was about to shoot when he got shot in the neck. Sawyer never got a shot off.


I don't necessarily agree. I'm not saying the 1st thing happened, with a possible force-field, but I'm definitely not 100% sure that someone else shot Sawyer. With all the magnetism tie-ins, I would not be suprised at all if the "security system" was able to repel Sawyer's bullet.

If Sawyer did get shot by someone else, that would have to be one hell of a lucky shot to just wing him in the neck. Clearly, the shooter would not be trying to kill Sawyer if Jack and Locke are sitting there with guns locked and loaded at their leader.

Another possibility is that it was some sort of pellet or air gun that they have managed to pickup along the way to go with their WWII pistol.


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## Zen98031 (Sep 29, 2005)

Wow, took all day to read through all of this. .

Yeah, when Sawyer was shot I kinda found it a bit of a stretch that in the dark somebody was good enough to pull off a shot and only wing him in the neck. It also sounded like a regular pistol, a pellet gun is pretty much silent. Probably just another Hollywood thing, doubt they will ever get back to it. If the others have a shooter that good our guys are in for a rough time. 

My theory as to how the show deals with the characters not doing what other people would normally do in these situations is the "sickness" is slowly setting in. First thing to go is your deeper analytical thinking. I remember reading a Sci-Fi book once that had a society that handicapped all citizens so they all had the same abilities. Those with higher intelligence would have an implant put in their head that would emit an ear splitting beep every 30 seconds so it would be impossible to hold onto a thought. Thinking something is affecting our survivors in a similar way. You have Charlie that finally sees the monster and instead of telling everybody else what he saw, after all the run ins they had with it before, he pretty much blows it off.

Oh, and another theory just popped into my head... I think the island might accelerate ageing. Clair's baby is looking much to old for the time since he was born, and when (if) Walt comes back he will be noticeably older. Might lend support to the woman driving the boat being Alex. You rapidly age to adulthood and then it slows down a bit from there. 

Guess we need to wait and see...

Mitch


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## jfjellstad (May 6, 2002)

jradford said:


> I don't necessarily agree. I'm not saying the 1st thing happened, with a possible force-field, but I'm definitely not 100% sure that someone else shot Sawyer. With all the magnetism tie-ins, I would not be suprised at all if the "security system" was able to repel Sawyer's bullet.
> 
> If Sawyer did get shot by someone else, that would have to be one hell of a lucky shot to just wing him in the neck. Clearly, the shooter would not be trying to kill Sawyer if Jack and Locke are sitting there with guns locked and loaded at their leader.


You are overanalyzing stuff.

Watch the episode again. Sawyer never shoot anybody. He walks up, pointing the gun, a shot is heard, and he reacts to it, and starts bleeding from the neck. Now, whether it was a lucky shot or not, doesn't matter. He never shot, so the "force field" issue doesn't even enter into the picture.

Might as well argue that Superman flew by and reflected the bullet that Sawyer never shot back at him.


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## Granny (Mar 29, 2005)

I doubt the aging baby thing is anything other than Hollywood. Most babies they use in movies, etc. rarely look the accurate age. I think it has to do with how much time they can actually use them on camera. Most "infants" look to be at least 3-6 months old. Besides, an actual 1-month-old would probably be crying all the time they were shooting.


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## Zen98031 (Sep 29, 2005)

Granny said:


> I doubt the aging baby thing is anything other than Hollywood. Most babies they use in movies, etc. rarely look the accurate age. I think it has to do with how much time they can actually use them on camera. Most "infants" look to be at least 3-6 months old. Besides, an actual 1-month-old would probably be crying all the time they were shooting.


Probably, but when you tie in all 3, the baby, Walt, and Alex it gets kinda interesting and gives the "show" an out.

Mitch


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Just to be overly technical, ABC seems to think that Sawyer was shot in the ear. A slightly less difficult shot, albeit oh so slightly.

I agree that there was no ricochet. The real problem is that Sawyer moves forward and then raises the gun to fire. Whoever shot meant to do so as a warning, IMO. Probably the same as why he took one in the shoulder on the boat, not the gut.

If they are "warning" shots, it sure implies some things. Like they don't want to kill anyone, which would eliminate the "outnumbered" theory (you kill if outnumbered). People who don't have guns and ammo don't fire warning shots.

And Superman isn't scheduled to show up until Wonder Woman returns to Paradise Island in 6 episodes or so.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

some kid i know suggested the ricochet thing to me and i didnt buy into it till i watched that scene over n over again and i still dont know but i wouldnt put it past this show.......i can see where he got the idea from, in the scene it looks like everything that gets done in a movie or tv show when someone fires a gun (cocks gun, points it at the target, makes squinty mean face look, and does what everyone does when "fake" shooting pushes/pulls his hand and gun) EXCEPT there was no "blast" (that we saw)...thats only because they cut away to zeke...and there is a sound after the shot is fired...sounds like a ricochet.........edit: the sound is when they cut to zeke and you see him

as an argument for the ricochet, if it was just a shooter in the jungle, why did they cut away to zeke? he didnt shoot at sawyer, he didnt have a gun....why didnt they leave the shot on sawyer so we could see him NOT shoot and then GET shot?

I can see where its coming from........


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## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

Delta13 said:


> If they are "warning" shots, it sure implies some things. Like they don't want to kill anyone, which would eliminate the "outnumbered" theory (you kill if outnumbered). People who don't have guns and ammo don't fire warning shots.


You do if you want to make sure your guy isn't shot, but don't want to start a free-for-all shooting match.


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## tivotvaddict (Aug 11, 2005)

Test said:


> some kid i know suggested the ricochet thing to me and i didnt buy into it till i watched that scene over n over again and i still dont know but i wouldnt put it past this show.......i can see where he got the idea from, in the scene it looks like everything that gets done in a movie or tv show when someone fires a gun (cocks gun, points it at the target, makes squinty mean face look, and does what everyone does when "fake" shooting pushes/pulls his hand and gun) EXCEPT there was no "blast" (that we saw)...thats only because they cut away to zeke...and there is a sound after the shot is fired...sounds like a ricochet.........edit: the sound is when they cut to zeke and you see him
> 
> as an argument for the ricochet, if it was just a shooter in the jungle, why did they cut away to zeke? he didnt shoot at sawyer, he didnt have a gun....why didnt they leave the shot on sawyer so we could see him NOT shoot and then GET shot?
> 
> I can see where its coming from........


Exactly! And Zeke's words to Sawyer right before the shooting are "Why don't you point the gun down!" This was said with a "You idiot" type of voice too. I.e., point the gun down so it doesn't bounce back right at you. One would think he'd say something more like "Put your gun away" or something like that.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

tivotvaddict said:


> Exactly! And Zeke's words to Sawyer right before the shooting are "Why don't you point the gun down!" This was said with a "You idiot" type of voice too. I.e., point the gun down so it doesn't bounce back right at you. One would think he'd say something more like "Put your gun away" or something like that.


I've thought that line is odd as well. "point the gun down" instead of "put the gun down". I didn't suspect a force field though, I just thought Zeke was just weird like everyone else.

Greg


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## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

But Jack alluded to there being a guy in the forest with a gun when he said something like "I don't believe you, I think there is just one guy out there in the trees with a gun"

Why would he say that unless the report came from somewhere else? If it came from Sawyer's gun Jack would know that it didn't come from a distance.


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## thenightfly42 (Mar 5, 2002)

Zen98031 said:


> I remember reading a Sci-Fi book once that had a society that handicapped all citizens so they all had the same abilities. Those with higher intelligence would have an implant put in their head that would emit an ear splitting beep every 30 seconds so it would be impossible to hold onto a thought.


That was the short story "Harrison Bergeron", from Kurt Vonnegut's story collection "Welcome to the Monkey House".

/ end pointless aside


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

This force field and Sawyer shot stuff is stretching even the stretchiness of most Lost threads. Keegan, turn in your "Stretching Things" badge now!


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

NoThru22 said:


> This force field and Sawyer shot stuff is stretching even the stretchiness of most Lost threads. Keegan, turn in your "Stretching Things" badge now!


Come on, that's a bit much.

1. There is very clearly a "security system," as has been mentioned by Danielle.

2. There is very clearly a theme of extreme magnetism. (Many have inferred that this has been directly related to Locke's ability to walk.)

3. Mr. Friendly is armed with a 1940's pistol. Not exactly "sniper rifle" capabilities, those Other's are packing, huh?

I don't think it's a stretch to the proportions that some people stretch things to think that something strange happened there.

I think it's almost as "stretchy" to think that someone busted a cap across the side of Sawyer's ear as a "warning shot."


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

We saw the security in Eko's episode. It's a big black cloud of smoke that tears trees out from their roots and try's to drag former cripples underground.


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## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

NoThru22 said:


> We saw the security in Eko's episode. It's a big black cloud of smoke that tears trees out from their roots and try's to drag former cripples underground.


I don't necessarily believe the monster and the security are the same thing. I think maybe the blasts are the security and the black cloud is the monster.


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