# Cranky Geeks DL.TV No More!!??



## techmonkey (Jan 13, 2009)

What happened top DL.TV and Cranky Geeks?  I no longer seem them in the free videos of VOD. Did Ziff Davis pull the plug on TIVO Casts? They are having monkey problems. Seems like all the good TIVO casts disappear.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

I noticed that, myself. I hope it's temporary.


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## shiffrin (Aug 23, 2000)

techmonkey said:


> What happened top DL.TV and Cranky Geeks?  I no longer seem them in the free videos of VOD. Did Ziff Davis pull the plug on TIVO Casts? They are having monkey problems. Seems like all the good TIVO casts disappear.


I was just about to post the same question when I saw yours. It looks like the episodes are still available directly from their web sites, but not through Tivo. I know they were taking a break for a few weeks around holiday time, but why would Tivo drop them? I checked both online and through my Tivo menus and these shows are no longer available.


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## johnny99 (Nov 10, 2008)

Long thread on this subject here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=412126


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## techmonkey (Jan 13, 2009)

johnny99 said:


> Long thread on this subject here:


Sort of the same thing but at the time Geek Brief was still listed as being able to download just old dates nothing new. DL.TV and Cranky Geeks are not even listed with "old" dates.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

From the CG website



> Due to bandwidth restrictions and budgetary restraints, we regret that we will no longer be able to support CrankyGeeks on TiVo. We humbly apologize for the inconvenience and hope you continue to watch CrankyGeeks in one of our other supported formats.


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## johnny99 (Nov 10, 2008)

Does "budgetary constraints" mean there was some kind of payola arrangement with Tivo?


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

I think it would be safe to say that whether or not one party paid another, that is was not fiscally advantagious to continue the TiVoCast feeds. I believe that it simply cost ZD more than they received from the venture.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Well I'll certainly miss both.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Well, no more CG for me then. It was ok but I'm not going to watch it on my Mac.



scandia101 said:


> From the CG website


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## NowPlaying (Mar 7, 2002)

> Due to bandwidth restrictions and budgetary restraints, we regret that we will no longer be able to support CrankyGeeks on TiVo. We humbly apologize for the inconvenience and hope you continue to watch CrankyGeeks in one of our other supported formats.


That makes me Cranky.

I miss *****in Kitchin too.


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## margegeneverra (Jan 27, 2009)

Dvorak has always been a supporter of IPTV. Putting it on Tivo was brilliant - one of the first IPTV programs to be there.

Why did he suddenly allow the dumb move of taking Cranky Geeks off of Tivo and thus off of *TV*?

I don't watch shows hunched over a PC screen - I watch on a big TV from my sofa.

I sure miss Cranky Geeks....

You made a mistake John - bring it back.


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## DAccardi (Oct 26, 2008)

I believe if you have PyTivoX you can download it on the computer and transfer to tivo, I believe.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

FWIW, I've put both shows in the default config of HME/VLC.

Note that they're 16:9 shows, but they appear as 4:3 unless you set your Aspect to Full (which you have to do outside of HME/VLC, alas).


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

margegeneverra said:


> Dvorak has always been a supporter of IPTV. Putting it on Tivo was brilliant - one of the first IPTV programs to be there.
> 
> Why did he suddenly allow the dumb move of taking Cranky Geeks off of Tivo and thus off of *TV*?
> 
> ...


John had nothing to do with it. It was a business decision. TiVo doesn't make it easy or cheap to be listed in the VOD menu. Transcoding each of the type of videos they provide takes hours which costs money. The rest of their video types are still available. I'm not sure why you blame John when Ziff Davis clearly made the decision.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hours of unattended computer time costs money? Well, a few cents, maybe.

This process is totally automatable, and I'd be astonished if anyone (particularly a tech-oriented show) were doing it without having totally automated it. On the other hand, I'm astonished as it is that so many problems and irregularities crop up in what should be a totally automated process, so maybe it isn't, and they haven't.

Bandwidth per user costs might be a reason, though -- higher for TiVo than for anyone else, since they're using 480-line MPEG-2.


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## Lazlo123 (Nov 7, 2006)

Didn't watch'em before they were on Tivo, and now I won't watch'em after they WERE on Tivo... so long DL.TV. Let us know when we can watch you on TV again. Without having to download this and "push" it there or hook this up and do this and that... blah.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

wmcbrine said:


> Hours of unattended computer time costs money? Well, a few cents, maybe.


It still requires some man hours no matter how automated it is. Also, afaik, TiVo has some restrictions that may require extra video editing on Cranky Geeks part. Plus, I don't think getting listed in the TiVo VOD menu is free. If it were, then TiVo would have a more comprehensive list of partners.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

rainwater said:


> It still requires some man hours no matter how automated it is.


Eh? How do you figure?



> _Plus, I don't think getting listed in the TiVo VOD menu is free._


Of that, I have no knowledge.


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## johnny99 (Nov 10, 2008)

I would be very disappointed (though perhaps not especially surprised) if I learned that Tivo was charging a big fee to get these podcasts listed on Tivo, while at the same time not providing a decent built-in podcast reader so we could subscribe to video podcasts directly.

Apple gives away a podcast reader/player in iTunes. I would love to have something similar in Tivo.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

wmcbrine said:


> Eh? How do you figure?


Because I have heard many video podcasts discuss the time involved with converting the video into the correct formats. If it were truly automated all of these podcasts would show up on your TiVo at the same time every week. Name one podcast that actually does that? I have yet to see one.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Transcoding 30 minutes of video to SD MPEG-2 would take about 10 minutes on a modern PC, not hours. So I seriously doubt processing time was an issue. Bandwidth could be an issue, since MPEG-2 require nearly twice as much bandwidth as MPEG-4/H.264 for a decent picture. Although I'm pretty sure that the way it worked was Ziff would sent TiVo a video in it's original format and TiVo would transcode and host it, so I don't think either one put a burden on Ziff. Maybe TiVo just couldn't handle the bandwidth requirements. Maybe it was cutting into their ability to host more important applications like the Netflix app or the new search.

I was going to say that they could just add it to the list of ones that require Desktop Plus to get, but they seemed to have gone away from that as well. It seems that the only way you can get podcast onto a TiVo now is to either download it manually and then grab it from your PC via TD. Or you can use a 3rd party program to subscribe to the RSS feeds then use TDs auto upload folders to send the files to the TiVo. The second option is OK, but still seems half finished. It seems like it would be a whole lot easier for customers to use if they had a way to subscribe to RSS feeds right from within TD.

Dan


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> Although I'm pretty sure that the way it worked was Ziff would sent TiVo a video in it's original format and TiVo would transcode and host it, so I don't think either one put a burden on Ziff.


At one point one of the TiVo reps here seemed surprised that some of the Tivo Casts didn't include audio in the opening TiVo Cast animation so what he said made me believe the individual sources do the transcoding for TiVo and then deliver the finished package ready to go.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

OK that could be, but as I said above transcoding to MPEG-2 on a modern PC is pretty quick and painless. The only burden I could see is bandwidth and based on what I've gleaned it seems that TiVo actually hosts the files not the content owner.

Who knows, maybe this had nothing to do with bandwidth or processing time. The timing (i.e. stopping around the 1st of the year) seems to open up the possibility of some sort of contract dispute.

Dan


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> The timing (i.e. stopping around the 1st of the year) seems to open up the possibility of some sort of contract dispute.
> 
> Dan


That's what I've been assuming.

It still sucks though that TiVo doesn't say anything and just lets content they provide just disappear.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> Transcoding 30 minutes of video to SD MPEG-2 would take about 10 minutes on a modern PC, not hours. So I seriously doubt processing time was an issue.


Except CrankyGeeks had 7 formats they were transcoding to and the episode length was longer than 30 minutes, so it certainly is a time consuming process. You have to consider these files then had to be uploaded to the content server and the TiVo file had to be uploaded to the TiVo server (at some point the DRM wrapper has to be added). Like I said before this isn't free and I don't think Tivo is offering their service for free either. It clearly was costing ZD a lot of extra money or they wouldn't cancel the TiVo version.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

rainwater said:


> Except CrankyGeeks had 7 formats they were transcoding to and the episode length was longer than 30 minutes, so it certainly is a time consuming process.


CG doesn't generally run over 31 minutes.


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## NowPlaying (Mar 7, 2002)

My guess, just a guess is that Ziff Davis wants us on their website clicking banner ads. Us Tivo users have a bad habit of fast forwarding over the embedded commercials.


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## wtherrell (Dec 23, 2004)

rainwater said:


> Except CrankyGeeks had 7 formats they were transcoding to and the episode length was longer than 30 minutes, so it certainly is a time consuming process. You have to consider these files then had to be uploaded to the content server and the TiVo file had to be uploaded to the TiVo server (at some point the DRM wrapper has to be added). Like I said before this isn't free and I don't think Tivo is offering their service for free either. It clearly was costing ZD a lot of extra money or they wouldn't cancel the TiVo version.


Yeah, just like ZD quit publishing PC Magazine. Too much trouble, I guess. Damned if I am going to take my laptop to the toilet to browse their website. They can roll it up and shove it!!


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

rainwater said:


> Except CrankyGeeks had 7 formats they were transcoding to and the episode length was longer than 30 minutes, so it certainly is a time consuming process. You have to consider these files then had to be uploaded to the content server and the TiVo file had to be uploaded to the TiVo server (at some point the DRM wrapper has to be added). Like I said before this isn't free and I don't think Tivo is offering their service for free either. It clearly was costing ZD a lot of extra money or they wouldn't cancel the TiVo version.


In my line of work I do a LOT of video encoding/transcoding/recoding and my 2 year old QX6700 machine can output 30 minutes of video in any format in less then realtime. SD MPEG-2 takes 1/4-1/3 realtime to encode, maybe half realtime if I use 2 pass encoding. So we're talking about saving 10-20 minutes of unattended CPU time for the TiVo stream. Hardly seems like a big money pit.



wtherrell said:


> Yeah, just like ZD quit publishing PC Magazine. Too much trouble, I guess. Damned if I am going to take my laptop to the toilet to browse their website. They can roll it up and shove it!!


I know what a crock of crap that is! If I wanted to take my laptop into the bathroom I wouldn't have paid for the paper magazine in the first place.

Dan


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> In my line of work I do a LOT of video encoding/transcoding/recoding and my 2 year old QX6700 machine can output 30 minutes of video in any format in less then realtime. SD MPEG-2 takes 1/4-1/3 realtime to encode, maybe half realtime if I use 2 pass encoding. So we're talking about saving 10-20 minutes of unattended CPU time for the TiVo stream. Hardly seems like a big money pit.


I never said the encoding portion was a money pit. But it clearly takes more than an hour to encode all of the files and upload to the correct servers. I am not even sure how long it takes to wrap the drm around the videos either. My guess is the reason for canceling is the cost of having to be listed on the TiVo VOD menu. They certainly aren't killing the other video feeds so there clearly can't be much other reason.


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## TiVoEvan74 (Sep 11, 2004)

Back to the original poster's comment.

This is a shame, no matter what the background is (technical, financial, etc.). Both shows, but especially Cranky Geeks, made Tivo that much more fun and useful. The video podcast download option simply isn't that attractive any more.

Tivo should carry it as a loss-leader if need be... it was good advertising for the power of internet-connected, podcast enabled Tivo!

Hmm... time to think about Apple TV, or connecting my Mac to the telly, or my iPod Touch 2G.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

TiVoEvan74 said:


> Tivo should carry it as a loss-leader if need be... it was good advertising for the power of internet-connected, podcast enabled Tivo!


Too bad there aren't dozens of other TiVo casts to choose from.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

wmcbrine said:


> Bandwidth per user costs might be a reason, though -- higher for TiVo than for anyone else, since they're using 480-line MPEG-2.


I called it. They addressed the dropping of TiVoCast on this week's episode, and that was exactly the reason they gave.

They also talked about pyTivo. Check it out:

http://dl.tv/2009/02/dltv_ep_267_guerilla_style_1.php


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

TiVoEvan74 said:


> Hmm... time to think about Apple TV, or connecting my Mac to the telly, or my iPod Touch 2G.


If you are going to go to the trouble to do one of those things, why not just use pyTivo or TiVo Desktop Plus? They rely on a computer as an intermediary yes, but so do your proposed options. Both pyTivo and TiVo Desktop Plus work well for both of these video podcasts.


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## jjg247 (Oct 1, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> Too bad there aren't dozens of other TiVo casts to choose from.


IMO none of the other Tivocasts are even in the same league as DL.TV and CrankyGeeks. Regardless of who's "fault" it was, consider me another pi$$ed off Tivo user. Over the years Tivo has spoiled me with adding functionality instead of removing it.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

jjg247 said:


> IMO none of the other Tivocasts are even in the same league as DL.TV and CrankyGeeks. Regardless of who's "fault" it was, consider me another pi$$ed off Tivo user. Over the years Tivo has spoiled me with adding functionality instead of removing it.


More misplaced anger :up:


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## knuckles (Dec 21, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> More misplaced anger :up:


Watch the dl.tv program and you may change your mind. mpeg2 video requirement, and the shows have to pay the hosting cost.

I put some of the blame on TiVo.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

knuckles said:


> Watch the dl.tv program and you may change your mind. mpeg2 video requirement, and the shows have to pay the hosting cost.
> 
> I put some of the blame on TiVo.


I have and I see no reason to blame tivo at all for Ziff Davis' decision.
Tivo cast was not and is not the only way to get such web videos on a Tivo.


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## TiVoEvan74 (Sep 11, 2004)

Just tumbled to PyTivoX yesterday and it works like a charm! 

Even Cranky Geeks for the iPod Video (presumably designed for smaller screen, more compressed, lower quality) still looked fine on our TV! While it still requires some manual intervention (e.g., AFAIK, having the laptop open and running; clicking to transfer the latest show, etc.), it does show the various podcasts and, presumably, whatever the podcast play list is set for.

We're also transferring those "amateur", yet professional quality, Star Trek shows that are part of the Star Trek: New Voyages. series.. and they show up just great!

So, yes, PyTivoX is a smart fallback.


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## knuckles (Dec 21, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> I have and I see no reason to blame tivo at all for Ziff Davis' decision.
> Tivo cast was not and is not the only way to get such web videos on a Tivo.


Can you give us your reasons why?


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

knuckles said:


> Can you give us your reasons why?


ZD knew what the deal was from the start. It's not as if TiVo got them to sign on the dotted line and then added - BTW, we'll need everything in mpeg2 and Tivo didn't ask for a change to mpeg2 midstream. It was mpeg2 from day one. Do you think other web video producers, said 'no thank you' to Tivo and their need for mepg2 and never made it on to Tivo? I do. Does it make sense to be mad at Tivo for that? If the answer is no (and imo it is), then it can't make any sense to mad at Tivo because someone tried it their way and ultimately decide that it didn't work for them.


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## knuckles (Dec 21, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> ZD knew what the deal was from the start. It's not as if TiVo got them to sign on the dotted line and then added - BTW, we'll need everything in mpeg2 and Tivo didn't ask for a change to mpeg2 midstream. It was mpeg2 from day one. Do you think other web video producers, said 'no thank you' to Tivo and their need for mepg2 and never made it on to Tivo? I do. Does it make sense to be mad at Tivo for that? If the answer is no (and imo it is), then it can't make any sense to mad at Tivo because someone tried it their way and ultimately decide that it didn't work for them.


Now that's a much better answer!

We still don't know what it was they signed, or what the agreements were, so I have to be pissed at someone, and I choose TiVo. I can't be overjoyed with them all the time now can I?

Now, why did TiVo pick mpeg2 when most of the pod casts, at least that I watch, aren't formatted that way for the general public?


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

knuckles said:


> Now, why did TiVo pick mpeg2 when most of the pod casts, at least that I watch, aren't formatted that way for the general public?


It's the only codec the Series 2 can decode in hardware (and the TiVo doesn't have the power to decode video in software in real time). It's not really a choice. They could perhaps do MP4 TiVoCasts, but only for S3/HD (and even then, not with the current software).

Of course, none of that applies to the TiVo-Desktop-assisted TiVoCasts. They could list it there with no bandwidth penalty.


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## knuckles (Dec 21, 2002)

wmcbrine said:


> It's the only codec the Series 2 can decode in hardware (and the TiVo doesn't have the power to decode video in software in real time). It's not really a choice. They could perhaps do MP4 TiVoCasts, but only for S3/HD (and even then, not with the current software).
> 
> Of course, none of that applies to the TiVo-Desktop-assisted TiVoCasts. They could list it there with no bandwidth penalty.


Thanks.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

wmcbrine said:


> They could perhaps do MP4 TiVoCasts, but only for S3/HD (and even then, not with the current software).


Many of the podcasts in the TiVoCast system have HD versions already. It's a shame TiVo hasn't updated the TiVoCast system to allow h.264 versions of the TiVoCasts for S3 users instead of using these extremely large mpeg-2 files with poor quality.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

wmcbrine said:


> It's the only codec the Series 2 can decode in hardware (and the TiVo doesn't have the power to decode video in software in real time). It's not really a choice. They could perhaps do MP4 TiVoCasts, but only for S3/HD (and even then, not with the current software).


Would a TiVo have to decode them in real time? Couldn't they be downloaded and then converted?


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

You really don't want to make the TiVo transcode anything. When I say "not in real time", think "not on the same day".


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

I think Dvorak summed it up quite nicely in his latest twitter post concerning Cranky Geeks


> TiVO is done. Too many issues. To expensive, etc. Poorly done.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well if Dvorak is down on TiVo, then the future for TiVo is looking bright indeed! Few commentators are more often wrong.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

rainwater said:


> I think Dvorak summed it up quite nicely in his latest twitter post concerning Cranky Geeks


Was he referring to CG relationship with TiVo, or TiVo in general.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Too terse to be sure. I was reading it as TiVo in general.


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## mindchaotica (Oct 8, 2008)

yeah Mr. Dvorak stated on Twitter that they weren't going to be doing TiVo anymore with cranky geeks.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

mindchaotica said:


> yeah Mr. Dvorak stated on Twitter that they weren't going to be doing TiVo anymore with cranky geeks.


That, we all knew. I was just trying to see if he was badmouthing the company/product, or just the way they deal with their partners.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

jrm01 said:


> That, we all knew. I was just trying to see if he was badmouthing the company/product, or just the way they deal with their partners.


He was referring to cranky geeks on TiVo, not TiVo in general.


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## jjg247 (Oct 1, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> More misplaced anger :up:


I'm not placing anger or blaming anyone. I am a Tivo user first and foremost and now not a CrankyGeeks or Dl.TV viewer in any sense. Tivo opened that path for me to watch those shows easily and now that is shut down.

Read my post again, just pi$$ed not at anyone in particular.


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## jrgutknecht (Jun 3, 2002)

wtherrell said:


> Yeah, just like ZD quit publishing PC Magazine. Too much trouble, I guess. Damned if I am going to take my laptop to the toilet to browse their website. They can roll it up and shove it!!




I couldn't agree MORE.. I've been a subscriber to PC Magazine since the very beginning. It was the very first magazine I ever subscribed to. Their decision to stop publishing was boneheaded. Why would ANYONE want to read a magazine on a computer? UGH!!!

Back on topic now.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

The larger issue here is that there was no communication from TIVO that this programming was being discontinued. TIVO should send a message to all users.

It's unacceptable to discontinue programming without notifying the customer.


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## mathwhiz (May 28, 2000)

TiVo never lets viewers know when new content is added or removed - it's like TiVoCast is a step-child that gets ignored. If I didn't follow the forums or certain online blogs I wouldn't know anything about new shows they carry. With my enhancements to pyTiVo I'll be switching more to doing them on my own instead of relying on TiVo.


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

Looks like TIVO really doesn't deserve much, if any, of the blame.

This is what I just found posted on the dl.tv web site:

"DL.TV production is going on hiatus effective immediately. The last few months have seen numerous behind the scene changes for DL.TV and the end result is that there are too few bodies left to put out a consistent and quality show."

It appears that dl.tv is off the air on TIVO and on the web. Can Cranky Geeks be far behind?


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

bobfrank said:


> This is what I just found posted on the dl.tv web site:
> 
> "DL.TV production is going on hiatus effective immediately. The last few months have seen numerous behind the scene changes for DL.TV and the end result is that there are too few bodies left to put out a consistent and quality show.


I just found this out too (listening to TWiT, of all things) ... very sad.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

The show really hasn't had the same dynamic since Robert Chang & Patrick Norton left. Robert Heron's okay in small doses, but I cannot stand Brooks Rowlett. And Loyd Case is showing up less and less. 

I would really get behind an Extreme Tech show. Their MP3 casts are pretty good and have filled the geek-tech void for me since DL.TV went south.


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

Saturn_V said:


> The show really hasn't had the same dynamic since Robert Chang & Patrick Norton left.


_Roger_ Chang.


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## WebHobbit (Jan 9, 2005)

Ah well. I have TiVo Desktop Plus but I find using my PS3 for downloadable stuff like CrankyGeeks way EASIER and more elegant since it was dropped from TivoCast.

I use the freeware PS3MediaServer:

http://ps3mediaserver.blogspot.com/


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## carios23 (Jan 19, 2009)

I think Dvorak said on twitter that this was a PITA to set this up for TiVo


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

carios23 said:


> I think Dvorak said on twitter that this was a PITA to set this up for TiVo




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1208158069


> OK..the Cranky Geeks audio is fixed..will work next week. TiVO is done. Too many issues. To expensive, etc. Poorly done.
> 3:00 PM Feb 13th from web


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

The horse is dead, no need to continue beating it.


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## Double-Tap (Apr 18, 2002)

The video quality was kind of crappy with TiVo on my HDTV and definitely not as good as diggnation, but the discussions were usually decent and why I watched. I kind of miss Dvorak tossing his topic card like Oddjob threw his hat. To kill.


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## Gavroche (May 27, 2007)

Some else may have already posted this info and perhaps I just missed it, but in case not:

Before DL.TV went on hiatus due to staffing issues, it was mentioned on the show that the reason it was taken off of Tivo was that it was too expensive to pay for the bandwidth necessary to stream MPEG2 via Tivo. Robert actually complained about the fact that Tivo would only work with MPEG2. 

I can certainly understand that, in these days of much better compression technologies.

Cranky Geeks is still going strong, just not as a TivoCast.

Personally, I'm using a podcast application called Juice to automatically download the Cranky Geeks podcasts (and others like Tekzilla and all the great CNET stuff that ISN'T available as TivoCasts) and then I "publish" these to my Tivo using PyTivo (it's all automated, so I don't have do a thing after adding the podcast to Juice). It works great, and the quality of the vido is actually much better than what we used to get on the regular TivoCast.


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## Gavroche (May 27, 2007)

Saturn_V said:


> The show really hasn't had the same dynamic since Robert Chang & Patrick Norton left.


I have to agree with you here. DL.TV was just not the same. What made it a great show in my opinion was the dynamic between Roger and Robert.

(Kinda like how X-Files fell apart without Mulder... eh?)


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Who provides the bandwidth for "The Watcher on TiVo?" Certainly not the Chicago Tribune.


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## mathwhiz (May 28, 2000)

Gavroche said:


> Personally, I'm using a podcast application called Juice to automatically download the Cranky Geeks podcasts (and others like Tekzilla and all the great CNET stuff that ISN'T available as TivoCasts) and then I "publish" these to my Tivo using PyTivo (it's all automated, so I don't have do a thing after adding the podcast to Juice). It works great, and the quality of the vido is actually much better than what we used to get on the regular TivoCast.


Does your solution automatically push the files to your TiVo? Or do you have to go into your video share and pull them to your TiVo? (note, in reading this before posting I noticed that these questions made it sound like I was knocking your solution and pushing mine - definitely not intended - just curious about the solution you came up with.)

I've created a patch for pyTiVo that automatically downloads RSS feeds and automatically transfers the files to the TiVo. So I get my CrankyGeeks, GeekBrief.TV and Revision3 shows - all in HD and reliably. There are very few TiVoCasts I get from TiVo anymore because of the lack of HD and reliability from them. My solution isn't 100% reliable - it hands on a download every now and then, but still better than what I got from TiVoCast.


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## flaminio (May 21, 2004)

Saturn_V said:


> The show really hasn't had the same dynamic since Robert Chang & Patrick Norton left.


I always enjoyed Patrick Norton -- and now I can get him weekly on Tekzilla.

I like Dvorak, but he's whining a bit too much. Other people have figured out how to get their content on TiVo. Just because your crew is either too stupid or too cheap to get it done doesn't make it TiVo's fault.


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## Gavroche (May 27, 2007)

mathwhiz said:


> Does your solution automatically push the files to your TiVo? Or do you have to go into your video share and pull them to your TiVo? (note, in reading this before posting I noticed that these questions made it sound like I was knocking your solution and pushing mine - definitely not intended - just curious about the solution you came up with.)


No offense taken. It's largely a matter of preference.

No, my solution doesn't push them to my Tivo, but I really wouldn't want it to. Basically I just publish my "Podcast" directory (the directory where Juice saves all the files) as a Video directory in PyTivo.

I also use a default.txt file in each podcast's directory to contain a generic description of the show, and so that I'll get actual titles on the Tivo instead of something like "podcast_20090301_887456_H264" or whatever it happens to be. So when I pull it on whichever Tivo I want (I have 3, so certainly wouldn't want to push it to all 3... just depends on what room i want to watch it in when I want to watch it) I get "Cranky Geeks" or whatever title I've put in the default.txt file.

Works like a charm... I'm not really down with the whole "push" thing... but that's just a personal preference.


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## Gavroche (May 27, 2007)

flaminio said:


> I like Dvorak, but he's whining a bit too much.


You JUST noticed that?

He's KNOWN for that!

(The show, after all, IS called "Cranky Geeks")


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## flaminio (May 21, 2004)

Gavroche said:


> You JUST noticed that?
> 
> He's KNOWN for that!
> 
> (The show, after all, IS called "Cranky Geeks")


LOL, good point . He has rather made a career out of that.

I actually met him once, back in 1988 or so when I was working for a PC clone company. I doubt he remembers me, tho'... Yeah, he was whining then, too .


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## Gavroche (May 27, 2007)

flaminio said:


> LOL, good point . He has rather made a career out of that.
> 
> I actually met him once, back in 1988 or so when I was working for a PC clone company. I doubt he remembers me, tho'... Yeah, he was whining then, too .


Hehe you are quite right! He's made a career out of it. I wish I could do the same thing... there is a lot to be cranky about in these days of poorly designed gadgets (ala new Ipod) and awful customer service (insert just about any company name here).

I remember him from the 80's too (in PC Magazine I think?)


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## Minok (Nov 25, 2008)

If they are not on the Tivo VOD menu, then I won't be watching them anymore.

It was a fun while it lasted. But I"m not powering up another machine all day to feed the Tivo. I watch enough tv as it is.

Cranky Geeks - if you and Tivo ever get your acts together again, I'll gladly watch.


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## TiVoEvan74 (Sep 11, 2004)

Ah, you're cutting off your nose to spite your face! 

PyTivo is easy to set up, you don't need to have it running all the time, just when you want to transfer things, and it makes it easy to send all sorts of shows, including Cranky Geeks, to your Tivo.

I'm not techie, so if I can set it up and find it easy to use, anyone can!


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## techmonkey (Jan 13, 2009)

bobfrank said:


> Looks like TIVO really doesn't deserve much, if any, of the blame.
> 
> This is what I just found posted on the dl.tv web site:
> 
> ...


Looks like DL.TV is finally back up and running (NOT on Tivo)

http://dl.tv/


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

I didn't even notice since I'd been so busy  I went to search why they're not on there anymore. Bandwidth? Come on.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

b_scott said:


> I didn't even notice since I'd been so busy  I went to search why they're not on there anymore. Bandwidth? Come on.


TiVo only supports mpeg-2 video for TivoCasts which is much larger than the files most of the video podcast publishers provide. I believe publishers have to encode the file to the correct mpeg-2 format and then they add the drm wrapper before uploading it. If TiVo would support using more efficient video formats that the S3 platform already supports, it would save publishers a lot of bandwidth. The TiVoCast system desperately needs to support the S3 platform better. It shouldn't be impossible to support both the S2 platform and S3 platform with the same system. So if a S2 user subscribes to DL.tv, then they would get the mpeg-2 formatted file, but if a S3 subscribes they would get the mpeg-4 file (which can also be in HD).


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

There's no DRM wrapper. The TiVo downloads a plain MPEG-2 program stream, and gratuitously marks it as copy prohibited. Otherwise, yes.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

Also note that the new Amazon HD downloads are (apparently) h264 video:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16315546#post16315546


bfdtv said:


> ...the Amazon HD movies on TiVo are 1080p24 with 5.1 audio @ 5.0 Mbps. The movies appear to be encoded with MPEG-4 H.264.


 And TiVo Desktop(and pytivo and streambaby) can send some mp4 files via the unsupported push mechanism.
So the bits are already in place to let other content distributors use mpeg-4 for 'TiVoCast' downloads.


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## nycityuser (Dec 30, 2004)

I just found the March 24, 2010 edition of Cranky Geeks back on my TiVo. It's the only episode there. Anyone know why and if more are coming?


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Gavroche said:


> Personally, I'm using a podcast application called Juice to automatically download the Cranky Geeks podcasts


Unfortunately, Juice doesn't have a Linux port, yet. It's supposed to, but it doesn't. Under the info for Linux, it links to references for icepod, whose .deb file is broken, and Podnova.com, whose link does not seem to be valid. Does anyone know of a good podcast catcher for Debian Linux?


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## S3-2501 (Jun 2, 2007)

I just stumbled on the re-listing of Cranky Geeks in the Video on demand listings under the technology category. I re-created a season pass for it and watched this week's episode (4/14/10.) They seem to be using a different video format which fast-forwards a bit weird, but otherwise everything played fine. 

I really hope this show is back on Tivo for good! I love the show but have hated being relegated to watching it on my computer ever since it vanished from the Tivocast list.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

I came across it in TiVo search and watched the only episode available the other day. Hopefully it's back as a regular.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

TIVO search showed 2 episodes yesterday. Was able to create a season pass.


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## jim _h (Nov 25, 2006)

By a wild coincidence, I just made the same discovery. Some of my faith in Tivo is restored!

Is it just my imagination, or is CG's video/audio quality better than it used to be?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Cool! Thanks for the heads up. I missed watching Cranky Geeks on my TiVo, but the alternate methods using 2-3 programs, and a lot of manual effort, to actually get it on my TiVo was too much so I stopped watching shortly after I stopped being able to get it automatically.

Dan


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## Brighton Line (Mar 15, 2006)

It is also listed on Tivo's website video downloads under Tech.

http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/cds/info.do?categoryId=tivo:ca.ts.1000151&mixId=tivo:mx.9405461


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

:shrug: you can just subscribe to them in itunes too. You don't really NEED to watch a podcast on a 50" screen. Although I do enjoy HD Nation that way, since it actually has HD things to watch.


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## techmonkey (Jan 13, 2009)

What TIVO Series 2,3,4 is able to get current Cranky Geeks Episodes?


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Series 2 doesn't but the TivoHD does.


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## r11roadster (Oct 24, 2006)

Yea it does seem better. they probably are using a mp4 format now. I used to use iTunes and desktop+ to automatically send it to the TiVo and it was rather grainy as it had to be re-encoded before it would play.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The S3 or better requirement is probably why they are back. In the old days they actually encoded a special version of the show in MPEG-2 format just for TiVo. This became to much trouble for them so they stopped. However this whole time they've been putting out the show in MP4 format (MOV files are actually MP4 files), with H.264 video, which the S3+ TiVos support but there was a minor problem with the MP4 format that prevented them from working. I'm guessing that they finally fixed that MP4 issue so now the files are compatible with S3+ TiVos (the change would not effect other devices) so now they are able to support TiVo without having to output a special version of the show.

I know I personally sent them a couple of emails complaining about the loss of the show on TiVo and recently even sent one with technical details on how to make their H.264 streams TiVo compatible. I'm not saying I had anything to do with the change, but I'm sure that complaints from users like myself, and I'm sure you guys, got them to at least revisit the problem since the fix was so simple.

Dan


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## Bai Shen (Dec 17, 2004)

So is DL.TV still around? I haven't seen new eps in iTunes in forever.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

The people who used to do DL.TV now work at Revision3. Tekzilla is mostly DL.TV people, HD Nation is even more so.

It looks like the last proper episode was in February 2009, then they did "DL.TV Bytes" for a while, but even that ended in July 2009.


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## Bai Shen (Dec 17, 2004)

So DL.TV is dead and gone, huh?


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

Bai Shen said:


> So DL.TV is dead and gone, huh?


yup, but HD Nation is a great show.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

wmcbrine said:


> The people who used to do DL.TV now work at Revision3. Tekzilla is mostly DL.TV people, HD Nation is even more so.
> 
> It looks like the last proper episode was in February 2009, then they did "DL.TV Bytes" for a while, but even that ended in July 2009.


Jason Chen looked pretty darn happy holding that 'found' prototype iPhone in his hand at Gizmodo


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## r11roadster (Oct 24, 2006)

b_scott said:


> yup, but HD Nation is a great show.


I actually like tekzilla and HD nation better than dl.tv.


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## jlib (Nov 22, 2002)

I'm glad I stumbled on this thread. I hadn't browsed the technology section there in some time. Looks like many new ones are available. The web video downloads are a very important and valuable part of my TiVo subscription.


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## jim _h (Nov 25, 2006)

jlib said:


> I'm glad I stumbled on this thread. I hadn't browsed the technology section there in some time. Looks like many new ones are available. The web video downloads are a very important and valuable part of my TiVo subscription.


Check out "Cult of UHF". It's a bunch of bad B-movies like the Japanese "Starman", Italian (dubbed) sci-fi bombs, and others. Some are so unbelieveably bad they're actually sort of fun.


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## S3-2501 (Jun 2, 2007)

My tivoHD just downloaded what appears to be today's episode of Cranky Geeks.

It's great that not only is this back on Tivo, but at least initially it appears that the uploads of new episodes to Tivo's servers will be timely as well.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I don't think it's coming from TiVo's servers this time. TiVo added a feature a while back which allows S3/HD units to download any podcast, from any source, by simply parsing the podcast's RSS feed. The catch is that the files have to be in a specific format for it to work. The CrankyGeeks' H.264 stream actually had compatible audio and video it just had one minor flaw in the MP4 container (MOV files are MP4) that prevented it from working. (TiVo requires the MOOV atom to be at the front of the file) So all CrankyGeeks had to do was make one minor modification to their H.264 files and TiVo would be able to start downloading them directly from the CG servers just by parsing their RSS feed.

I personally sent an email to the CG guys around the first of the year explaining that all they had to do was make a minor change to the files to get them to work with TiVo, so maybe they took my advice? Or maybe TiVo modified the requirements for podcasts in the latest software release so that it works with the CG files as-is? Either way I think that this time they are getting the files directly from the CG servers from the links in their RSS feed. Which means the lag we saw back when they had to do a special MPEG-2 encode just for TiVo and upload it to their servers should no longer be an issue.

Dan


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## S3-2501 (Jun 2, 2007)

Thanks for the information Dan203! It's very interesting to learn the likely details of the matter.


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## AntiPC (Jul 22, 2005)

Thanks for the efforts Dan. I just set up a CG season pass this morning, and got some of the previous episodes. I always enjoyed John and Sebastian, but think I only watched one episode on the computer.


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## BarryD99 (Mar 30, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> I don't think it's coming from TiVo's servers this time. TiVo added a feature a while back which allows S3/HD units to download any podcast, from any source, by simply parsing the podcast's RSS feed. The catch is that the files have to be in a specific format for it to work. The CrankyGeeks' H.264 stream actually had compatible audio and video it just had one minor flaw in the MP4 container (MOV files are MP4) that prevented it from working. (TiVo requires the MOOV atom to be at the front of the file) So all CrankyGeeks had to do was make one minor modification to their H.264 files and TiVo would be able to start downloading them directly from the CG servers just by parsing their RSS feed.
> 
> I personally sent an email to the CG guys around the first of the year explaining that all they had to do was make a minor change to the files to get them to work with TiVo, so maybe they took my advice? Or maybe TiVo modified the requirements for podcasts in the latest software release so that it works with the CG files as-is? Either way I think that this time they are getting the files directly from the CG servers from the links in their RSS feed. Which means the lag we saw back when they had to do a special MPEG-2 encode just for TiVo and upload it to their servers should no longer be an issue.
> 
> Dan


Dan:

Could you point me to a link to learn mre about capturing RSS feeds? Thanks.

BTW- I love VideoRedo and it's great tech support.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Here's the information on setting up custom RSS feeds on your TiVo. You can also report compatible feeds to have them added to the TiVo directory.

http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/product-features/on-demand/internet-videos-on-tv/custom-rss-feeds.html

Here's the information on creating compatible RSS video feeds.

http://www.tivo.com/abouttivo/resourcecenter/developerpublisherdetails/index.html


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## Minok (Nov 25, 2008)

TiVoEvan74 said:


> Ah, you're cutting off your nose to spite your face!
> 
> PyTivo is easy to set up, you don't need to have it running all the time, just when you want to transfer things, and it makes it easy to send all sorts of shows, including Cranky Geeks, to your Tivo.
> 
> I'm not techie, so if I can set it up and find it easy to use, anyone can!


No, I was not cutting off my nose to spite my face. The show, while entertaining, just isn't that important to me. I just prioritize differently. Maybe its a generational or lifestyle thing.

I don't watch video on computers normally beyond the occasional link to a youtube that some may send me. I watch on my main tv in the viewing room. For that room, there is no general purpose computer device (yet).. just appliances. I like to keep it simple - appliances are just much lower maintenance as I don't want to spend the time maintaining general purpose machines such as an HTPC. To provide a further point of reference on my lifestlye - I don't have a smart phone and don't see getting one; for me a cell is for making voice calls, and maybe a text message on a rare occasion. I use technology to provide quality of life improvements or provide entertainment, but I'm only willing to dedicate so much time to technology without giving up the rest of 'living time'.

So if it gets delivered on an optical disc, via cable stream or download through my Tivo or Wii, its then in my catalog of things I can watch. I'm not going to put a lot of effort into expanding the catalog unless there is a really compelling reason to do so... the winter olympics were not compelling enough for me, and I like the winter olympics. I just lament not being able to watch them due to the hack job that NBC does to the event.

So Cranky geeks, while providing some techno insight and entertainment, isn't compelling enough for me to look for a new delivery appliance.

But having notice the thread and checked the MyTivo website WebVideos list and seeint Cranky Geeks is there, I've got a new season pass now pushed to my home Tivo HD and look forward to listen to the whine and card tossing again.


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## S3-2501 (Jun 2, 2007)

Well, this week's episode of Cranky Geeks(4/28/10) hasn't downloaded yet, and isn't updated on the Tivo's VOD menus either as of this morning. It is up on the Cranky Geeks website though, so if Tivo is using RSS feeds now it hasn't updated from the feed yet. I hope it appears soon, though this week's co-cranks include Sam Levin, a "Brand Evangelist," which always seems to be frustratingly contradictory to the premise of a show called Cranky Geeks.


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## Minok (Nov 25, 2008)

Ok, so I got home last night to see an episode of Cranky Geeks had been downloaded. The show info on the TIVO indicated it was 720p source.

"Cool", I thought, and went to play it. Argh! WTF is this hideous mess?
Not only did the image look compressed because what I assume was a 16:9 format image that was being shown pillar-box in 4:3 mode, but it looked like it was 320i feed with the fields incorrectly combined into a progressive image (the scan lines were interleaved incorrectly). The worst display I've ever seen on my screen.

Is this the norm? Did anyone else see that nonsense?

It was the episode where they talked about the iPhone v4 find at the start.
The episode on the CrankyGeeks website seems to play back right 16:9 and clean, so I'm wondering what the heck the TIVO did to the download, or is the RSS data munged (or whatever the TIVO uses to get the show)


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

it's HD for me....... *shrug*


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## Minok (Nov 25, 2008)

Hm... I guess I'll re-establish the season pass from the box itself and get what episodes I can and see what happens.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

Minok said:


> Is this the norm? Did anyone else see that nonsense?


I haven't looked at the latest episode. But a few episodes ago, prompted by this thread, I downloaded a Cranky Geeks that was delivered in 480i. At that same time I also got an HD Nation episode in 720p. It was much much better quality and the filesize was only about 30% larger.

But think of it this way: If they had Yvonne Strahovski as a guest, then I'd definitely want 720p. But John Dvorak? Not so much!


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## Brighton Line (Mar 15, 2006)

Last night 3p EDT I could only get the 4/21 espisode. I'll check tonight when I get home, I do have a season pass set up and its a wired connection.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Minok said:


> Not only did the image look compressed because what I assume was a 16:9 format image that was being shown pillar-box in 4:3 mode


You can fix this by simply pressing the Aspect button on your remote and changing the format to "Full". That will stretch it out to fit a widescreen TV.

As for the quality... It's not HD for me, but it's still significantly better then what they use to send out so I'm happy.



S3-2501 said:


> Well, this week's episode of Cranky Geeks(4/28/10) hasn't downloaded yet, and isn't updated on the Tivo's VOD menus either as of this morning. It is up on the Cranky Geeks website though, so if Tivo is using RSS feeds now it hasn't updated from the feed yet.


Maybe my theory about them using the RSS option is wrong and they're back to doing it the old way with the special version just for TiVos. 

Dan


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh, I wouldn't go by that. TiVo finds ways to mess up even with their RSS-based TiVoCasts. (They still have to be turned into Push requests, basically, and somehow TiVo drops the ball on that sometimes.)

That's for the ones you can get a season pass to; you can enter an RSS feed URL directly on the TiVo, and fetch the latest episode that way, but you can't make a season pass for it.


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## Minok (Nov 25, 2008)

Dan203 said:


> You can fix this by simply pressing the Aspect button on your remote and changing the format to "Full". That will stretch it out to fit a widescreen TV.
> 
> As for the quality... It's not HD for me, but it's still significantly better then what they use to send out so I'm happy.
> 
> Dan


So I watched a few more episode (was able to get 3 episodes yesterday), and they all exhibited the same problem: they appear to be 480i, and either the TIVO is horribly upscaling them wrongly or the fields were reversed by the TIVO.

The aspect ratio problem is with what comes out of the TIVO. The display correctly displays everything else played (dvd, bd, TIVO cable recorded shows and downloaded (HD Nation, etc) ) - so I don't think me pressing a button on a remote is the solution here. If its 4:3 programming, then its showing up fine, but if its 16:9 programming, then something in the encoded stream/data is not set correctly.

I can take a picture and post it.

I do have to say that back when CG was transcoding to MPEG2 it looked much better AND was of the right aspect ratio, on this same gear, than it is now that they resumed. Something is different on the CG/Tivo end.


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## S3-2501 (Jun 2, 2007)

Still no joy with this week's episode. I also noticed that the VOD listing for Cranky Geeks shows no picture or description of the show. It's looking more and more like its brief return to Tivo is over. If it doesn't turn up tomorrow then I guess I'll just have to go back to watching it on my PC.


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## jim _h (Nov 25, 2006)

It just seems incredible to me that Tivo and CG can't make this work, after all this time. Or that they don't care enough.


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## MeStinkBAD (Jul 16, 2003)

I think some of you people belong on that show, not on these forums. Cranky Geeks indeed. LOL.


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## Brighton Line (Mar 15, 2006)

Back to downloading it and putting it on my phone. The brief tease back to watching it in bed... Oh well.


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## Minok (Nov 25, 2008)

One can hope someone is working on their disaster of a feed and once they get it ironed out, there will be joy.

For now its a "there's nothing worth talking about here on this CG subject apparently" followed by a tossing of the card at the camera....


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I tried manually entering the RSS feeds into TiVo and all of them say the video is incompatible, so TiVo must have been doing something on their end to make this work. Whatever it was they must have stopped. 

Dan


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## S3-2501 (Jun 2, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> I tried manually entering the RSS feeds into TiVo and all of them say the video is incompatible,


 Thanks for trying them out! I was going to give it a shot sooner or later, but the thought of entering all those urls by remote placed it squarely at the bottom of my to do list.


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## S3-2501 (Jun 2, 2007)

I was pleasantly surprised to turn on the TV this morning and discover yesterday's Cranky Geeks (5/12/10) listed in the Now Playing list! I guess we shouldn't completely give up hope on the availability of this show after all.


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## Brighton Line (Mar 15, 2006)

Same here, read your post then wenit to Tivo.com and look at my now playing and it was there.


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## S3-2501 (Jun 2, 2007)

I just saw the blue light come on my TivoHD and looked in the Now Playing List to find that today's Cranky Geeks is downloading. Two weeks in a row... I hope this indicates a trend back to consistent availability on Tivo!


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## cranbers (Apr 2, 2010)

I used to love those shows, about 2 years ago. dl.tv and cranky geeks just pale in comparison though to the shows on revision 3, which are also on tivo's on demand shows list.

So I have to be honest, I didn't even notice if this happened. dl.tv was just awful after everyone left but Robert, have to be honest on his own he is an awful host, he is more of a robin to a batman.

Tekzilla is where its at, if anyone hasn't seen it and you love dl.tv or crankygeeks you will love that. Not to mention all the shows made by leo laporte, twit, macbreak weekly etc are all on tivo as well.

Also hd nation has both robert and patrick so what's the loss? between leo laporte's shows and revision 3 you get all they had and 100 times more.


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## Bai Shen (Dec 17, 2004)

Is dl.tv still around? I thought it was done? I haven't seen any new eps in my iTunes feed in ages.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

dl.tv is very done. for a year. but check out Revision 3 - they have shows from a lot of those people, like HD Nation and Tekzilla


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## TiVoEvan74 (Sep 11, 2004)

I've been using PyTivo, but having to remember to manually transfer.

I'll have to look again at setting up the on demand stream.

Alas, though, Sebastian Rupley has left the show!

Is there a campaign somewhere to bring him back?

He was a key to the show, a great foil to Dvoark.


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## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

Only if you stuff envelopes during the campaign with green backs.


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## techmonkey (Jan 13, 2009)

Bai Shen said:


> Is dl.tv still around? I thought it was done? I haven't seen any new eps in my iTunes feed in ages.


 Actually it is still around sorta, now Carlos Rodela and Lance Ulanoff do a podcast under the dl.tv name but it is nothing like the Patrick and Robert days. I really don't care for the "new" dl.tv.:down:


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

techmonkey said:


> Actually it is still around sorta, now Carlos Rodela and Lance Ulanoff do a podcast under the dl.tv name


It appears that just started... I see three episodes of the "new" show, all dated two days ago. (?)


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Is anyone else having problems with audio clicks/pops during the show? The last couple episodes have had them for me. I even tried downloading again on my Premiere and had the same clicks/pops, so I know it's not hardware specific.

Dan


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## S3-2501 (Jun 2, 2007)

I noticed some minor audio problems with this week's show, but nothing that interfered with my being able to follow the conversation.

In this week's episode John specifically mentions them being back on Tivo, and they have a small discussion about the company near the end of the show. Even though John claims to have just been told that they're back on Tivo, it sounds like someone is taking note and making sure that they will stay available for the time being.


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## TiVoEvan74 (Sep 11, 2004)

Say, I didn't find Cranky Geeks when I searched from my Tivo! I found the other couple of podcasts we auto-download but CG wasn't there.


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## S3-2501 (Jun 2, 2007)

TiVoEvan74 said:


> Say, I didn't find Cranky Geeks when I searched from my Tivo! I found the other couple of podcasts we auto-download but CG wasn't there.


 I just checked after reading your post and it's still there. Go to Video on Demand ->Free VOD and Web Videos ->Technology and you'll find it in the proper alphabetical position. There's no picture or description from the Technology menu, but if you select it you'll find the most recent shows and season pass options.


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## TiVoEvan74 (Sep 11, 2004)

Weird! I appreciate your checking and your directions (which turn out to be what I had tried! ), but the list there is

Appludgment
Circuits
Hak5
HD Nation
MediaBytes, etc.

No Cranky Geeks!!

I also tried "All" again and it wasn't there either. A bunch of items prefaced with Crackle, followed by Critic's Picks and Days of Our Lives.

Is it not available everywhere for some odd reason?


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

TiVoEvan74 said:


> Is it not available everywhere for some odd reason?


It's not clear from your post which type of box you are using. On my TiVo HD, following the directions, I see:

CNET's Top 5
CNET's Top 5 (HD)
*CrankyGeeks*
Crave (HQ)
Crave (SD)​
and many many more programs.


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## Minok (Nov 25, 2008)

Ok, so here is a view of the horrible quality I'm seeing when watching the CrankyGeeks feed I was getting from the downloads via my TivoHD in May 2010.

Its just as the TivoHD outputs it to my screen. Compared is the playback that same time, of an episode of Tekzilla, which is obtained via the Video On Demand features by a subscription in the exact same way.

The Tekzilla episode is visible in all its high definition and 16:9 glory.
The CrankyGeek episodes is shown in pillar box (squeezed heads) with apparently very low resolution as the font for the names look horribly blocky.
The impression I'm left with is the CrankyGeek video is prepped with a process that targets a cell phone as the target (4:3 forced playback with a 320x240 resolution).


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## S3-2501 (Jun 2, 2007)

As much as I'd like to be appropriately Cranky about the quality of the video, the fact is that it's free and odd aspect ratios or not, watching it on my TV still beats watching it on my PC by far. Additionally, I've found using the Tivo's Aspect button and changing the aspect to full or zoom usually overcomes any odd aspect issues with SD web videos well enough that things can look reasonably normal.


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## Brighton Line (Mar 15, 2006)

I have to agree, watching it on my Tivo without me having to do anything is much better than dowloading it to the PC and then having to transfer it to the Tivo.
I'll put up with the audio drops after I fast forward thru the commercials too.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

I noticed that the description in Cranky Geeks episode says "CrankyGeeks Episode 211 - Tivo Version" so they are actually converting specifically for TiVo. 

When they dropped Cranky Geeks the first time they said it was because the costs of the bandwidth was too high so I guess they still won't create an HD and SD feed for TiVos.

Somehow TWIT can do it. Their HD quality is great - better than what I get on HD locals on Comcast!


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## TiVoEvan74 (Sep 11, 2004)

Series 2 Toshiba DVD burning Tivo... maybe that explains it. Perhaps the podcasts listed vary by whether someone has a Tivo HD unit or a SD one.

Too bad, especially as it sounds as if CG is NOT in HD anyway! Thanks to PyTivo, I'll just keep manually fetching it via iTunes and then manually transferring it over.

There's probably a way to automate this via PyTivo, but that's sure to take lots of fiddling time! (Not a rap on PT, just my exp. with tech network transfer hook ups!  )


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The last couple of episodes had less audio problems for me. The overall volume was a little low, and it had a bit of a tin can sound, but I didn't notice the clicks and dropouts like before so it's definitely better. I can deal with low volume and tinny sound, but those clicks/dropouts were really annoying.

Also I noticed in the last episode John mentioned that CG was available on some different website (can't remember what it was) did they get bought from Ziff? Perhaps this is why they've become TiVo friendly again.

Dan


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> Also I noticed in the last episode John mentioned that CG was available on some different website (can't remember what it was) did they get bought from Ziff? Perhaps this is why they've become TiVo friendly again.
> 
> Dan


You might be thinking of mevio.


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## jimliu54 (Jun 9, 2010)

i met the same problem ,have you fixed it yet?


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## S3-2501 (Jun 2, 2007)

It appears that we aren't getting this week's Cranky Geeks episode on Tivo. I hope this is due to them working on correcting the aspect and audio issues, and not a sign that they've given up on Tivo again due to complaints about those issues....


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

S3-2501, checking into this. It's automatic so you should always see the latest episode.


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## S3-2501 (Jun 2, 2007)

TiVoStephen said:


> S3-2501, checking into this.


 Thanks for your efforts! I hope things get straightened out in time for this week's episode (crosses fingers...)


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## S3-2501 (Jun 2, 2007)

well, it appears that there won't be a Tivo version of this week's Cranky Geeks either. Two weeks in a row looks like a trend to me.

As annoying as I find it to be stuck in front of a computer to watch video content, I must admit that the latest show (#224) is probably the most lively show they've had for quite some time and is definitely worth checking out. I wonder if mevio or whomever is responsible for deciding the fate of the Tivo version realizes how much they are limiting the exposure the show gets by not having it consistently on Tivo. There have been many times in the past when I've been watching the Tivo version and had others around the house sit down and start watching with me. Whenever I'm stuck watching it on my computer, that simply is not going to happen for a variety of obvious reasons.


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## CybrFyre (Mar 25, 2008)

Yep... the tivo RSS feed is a couple of weeks behind, now.

Crankygeeks seems to be the most complained about show on the forums when missing. I'm surprised Tivo isn't watching that one like a hawk!


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Tivo's position is that internet content is provided as a free service, so they don't care.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I don't know, considering we pay $13/mo for the "TiVo service", and internet content is sold as part of that service, I'd think that they could at least try to stay on top of the more popular stuff and ensure it's working properly. 

I love TiVo, but honestly I don't know what they're doing anymore. They haven't released any new software features in years. And the one new thing new they have done, the Premier UI, is only half finished and excruciatingly slow. If the extra cost of a TiVo subscription isn't going to fund the development, and maintenance, of these added features then where is it going? It almost seems like we're paying more for less these days. 

Dan


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

Dan, sorry you feel that way.

We certainly care about the download services, and we have folks working hard to bring you the hundreds of free channels we offer. But it's difficult when a feed to us is not working due to a partner problem, and the partner does not respond to our inquiries.

We're still investigating the missing CrankyGeeks episodes. Sorry for the problem.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Leo just mentioned with Kevin Rose on TWiT that Geek Briefs with Cali Lewis is jumping to Revision 3 from Mevio. Adam Curry is sinking.

I laughed when Patrick Norton on HD Nation said to email them at CNET. He's now on Revision 3, too, although he's been on all of them. HE can't keep up.

The podcast networks are raiding each other's talent pool.


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## Bai Shen (Dec 17, 2004)

Yeah, I noticed the switch to Rev3 and wondered about that.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

TiVoStephen said:


> Dan, sorry you feel that way.


Me too!

Dan


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

Haven't forgotten this. We're still trying to get the partner to update their feed to us. Sorry for the problem.


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## S3-2501 (Jun 2, 2007)

TiVoStephen said:


> Haven't forgotten this. We're still trying to get the partner to update their feed to us. Sorry for the problem.


 Thank you for your persistence! This week's episode and the previous missing episodes have all been downloaded to my Tivo tonight!


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## Brighton Line (Mar 15, 2006)

223 appeard this morning for me.


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## alyssa (Dec 7, 2003)

we watched 224 last night & it seems as tho, they're aware of not being on tivo too. I forget the specific comment by Devoric (sp) but it was sufficiently sarcastic.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

I guess TiVoStephen got with Cranky Geeks to fix the feed.

I suddenly got the last _three_ episodes.

I wonder if they moved the feed to a different provider now that they're 100% on mevio or whatever.

"Co-crank" Sebastian Rupley is gone, but I think it's because he took another job (at a competitor?)


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

Glad to see this is working again. The partner did update their feed to us after a bit of prodding. Sorry for the problem.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

TiVoStephen said:


> Glad to see this is working again. The partner did update their feed to us after a bit of prodding. Sorry for the problem.


THANKS, TiVoStephen!

I guess they thought they didn't need those pesky TiVo viewers.

Now get them to make the conversion better. It looks like they're converting 16:9 to 4:3 and then making a 16:3 letterboxed format source. It's a mess.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

I could live a happy life if I never saw OHDOCHTOR(?) on my TV ever again. All he is is a middling random geek with an overinflated ego and an unexpected non-scariness.


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## Minok (Nov 25, 2008)

Minok said:


> One can hope someone is working on their disaster of a feed and once they get it ironed out, there will be joy.


Well, there has been _some_ progress. The aspect ratio is starting to finally look less squished... or maybe I'm just getting used to it. Its 4:3 still, but looks like it might be correct.

But its still 480i feed, which looks like complete crap on anything larger than a computer monitor. On a 56" screen it looks like total junk. Ugh. Any chance for them to at least get up to 720? Sheesh.

_edit_: 720p is there. Ep 224 I got in 720p. Its getting better. There is still some problem with how they encode the feed... still 4:3 aspect ratio, but CG is making progress... which is nice to see. Good job.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Just press the Aspect button on the TiVo remote until it's in "Full" mode and it will look fine. It's basically being broadcast like an anamorphic DVD.

Thanks Stephen for staying on this and getting it fixed for us. :up:

Dan


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## knuckles (Dec 21, 2002)

I want to thank Stephen too. It's much easier to watch Cranky Geeks on the TiVo.


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## bd4tru (May 22, 2005)

I'm as techy (maybe more) as the next guy, but when Cranky Geeks ceased offering its show on TiVo, I could hardly make myself exercise one of the other workarounds. In other words, although I know how to get TiVO on my TV through other channels, I didn't. I assume I'm not alone. Now that it's back on TiVo I am so happy! Thanks TiVo Stephen!


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

You're welcome but it's been back for Series3/Series4 users for months!


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

bd4tru said:


> I'm as techy (maybe more) as the next guy, but when Cranky Geeks ceased offering its show on TiVo, I could hardly make myself exercise one of the other workarounds. In other words, although I know how to get TiVO on my TV through other channels, I didn't. I assume I'm not alone. Now that it's back on TiVo I am so happy! Thanks TiVo Stephen!


I'm in the same boat. After it stopped the first time I tried using work around via several pieces of PC software to get it back. However it was cumbersome and unreliable, and eventually I gave up on it. I missed over a year of the program until it finally came back to TiVo. At this point I have no intention of trying the work around again. So either TiVo supports it directly or I simply don't watch the show, plain and simple.

Dan


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## Minok (Nov 25, 2008)

Dan203 said:


> Just press the Aspect button on the TiVo remote until it's in "Full" mode and it will look fine. It's basically being broadcast like an anamorphic DVD.
> 
> Thanks Stephen for staying on this and getting it fixed for us. :up:
> 
> Dan


No, thats not it. Everything already is set up fine in the TIVO, its in the correct mode. Every other program comes across just fine. I expect CG (or Tivo) to fix their feed. I'm not going to tweek my TV/Tivo settings for one particular show when every other thing I watch works just fine.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

It's not "tweaking" anything. The TiVo has a built in aspect feature that is designed exactly for this purpose. The setting does not effect HD content at all, only SD, and it's very easy to cycle through the 3 options as needed. (no need to mess with your TV settings) Although if you'd rather watch the show squished due to some sort of stubborn principal then that's your prerogative. I was simply offering a suggestion which allows you to watch the show as it was intended to be viewed.

Dan


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## Minok (Nov 25, 2008)

Dan203 said:


> It's not "tweaking" anything. The TiVo has a built in aspect feature that is designed exactly for this purpose. The setting does not effect HD content at all, only SD, and it's very easy to cycle through the 3 options as needed. (no need to mess with your TV settings) Although if you'd rather watch the show squished due to some sort of stubborn principal then that's your prerogative. I was simply offering a suggestion which allows you to watch the show as it was intended to be viewed.
> 
> Dan


I may look into it more closely if they ever get to actual 720p broadcasts.

For now, what I thought was 720p is really 480i that has been scaled up to 720p by interpolation or data duplication, but still not 720p source... so it still looks awful, just not as awful as it once was.


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## S3-2501 (Jun 2, 2007)

Something must be wrong with the feed again. This week's show (#227) hasn't downloaded and is still missing from the VOD listings. TiVoStephen, any chance you could look into this again -- if you're not too tired of trying to get the Mevio people to get their act together (pretty please)


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## knuckles (Dec 21, 2002)

S3-2501 said:


> Something must be wrong with the feed again. This week's show (#227) hasn't downloaded and is still missing from the VOD listings. TiVoStephen, any chance you could look into this again -- if you're not too tired of trying to get the Mevio people to get their act together (pretty please)


Does John do this just to make us crankier?


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## S3-2501 (Jun 2, 2007)

knuckles said:


> Does John do this just to make us crankier?


I'm starting to think so!


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

S3-2501 said:


> Something must be wrong with the feed again. This week's show (#227) hasn't downloaded and is still missing from the VOD listings.


...but I get two copies of Diggnation every week to make up for it. 

What's weird is if I want the new episode of MacBreak Weekly and I see it the "past episodes," I can't download it. I get "Download as planned." Yeah, but how about now and not overnight?

Tivo must limit and schedule downloads to spread out bandwidth. They could fix it by letting us use our own bandwidth.

I figure it's along those lines that downloads are needlessly copy protected. TiVo wants to count each one and report it to whoever.

I'm going to look at setting up my own server of vidcasts on the home network.


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

S3-2501 said:


> Something must be wrong with the feed again. This week's show (#227) hasn't downloaded and is still missing from the VOD listings. TiVoStephen, any chance you could look into this again -- if you're not too tired of trying to get the Mevio people to get their act together (pretty please)


Sorry to hear about the problem. We're investigating.


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## S3-2501 (Jun 2, 2007)

TiVoStephen said:


> Sorry to hear about the problem. We're investigating.


 Thank you so much! I really appreciate your looking into this each time there's been a problem.


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

We've asked our contacts to update the feed, but they haven't been able to do so yet. We'll keep requesting. Sorry again for the delays.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Sounds like the people @ CrankyGeeks are lazy. Are they under contract or is it a voluntary obligation? If the former, maybe they need their thumbscrews tightened a little bit.


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## S3-2501 (Jun 2, 2007)

I just noticed the blue light on my Tivo lit up, and lo and behold today's Cranky Geeks episode was downloading. I'm glad they manged to straighten things out for this week's show.

'Till next week, everyone!


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I got mine about the same time. My blue light went out ten minutes ago.



S3-2501 said:


> 'Till next week, everyone!


I'm beginning to think TiVoStephen needs to start giving them a weekly pre-emptive "reminder".


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

The good news is episode 228 is now available. The bad news is episode 227 was skipped.



steve614 said:


> I'm beginning to think TiVoStephen needs to start giving them a weekly pre-emptive "reminder".


I'm thinking the same...


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Why don't you just talk to them about changing their standard H.264 stream slightly, so that the MOOV atom is up front, that way we can just use the standard stream via the RSS downloader to grab the program? Seems like it would be easier for everyone involved and wouldn't require a special stream just for TiVo.

Dan


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

Dan, I'll bring this up with them.

In other news: Episode 229 is published to the web site but not for TiVo users yet. I have an e-mail in to the team. Sorry again for the delays.


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## Brighton Line (Mar 15, 2006)

In any case, thank you Stephen. I got this week's episode last night as well.:up:


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

Yup, didn't take them long to get 229 up!

227 is still MIA, sorry about that.


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## S3-2501 (Jun 2, 2007)

230 just downloaded for me. Whatever TiVoStephen's doing seems to be working pretty well so far!


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

S3-2501 said:


> 230 just downloaded for me. Whatever TiVoStephen's doing seems to be working pretty well so far!


No credit to me -- this was done by the CrankyGeeks staff without any need for a reminder from us!


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

TiVoStephen said:


> Yup, didn't take them long to get 229 up!
> 
> 227 is still MIA, sorry about that.


229 never downloaded for me though if it's listed, I can manually get it.
I received 230 last night automatically.
Let's hope CG can get some consistancy.


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## S3-2501 (Jun 2, 2007)

We finally resume regular weekly Tivo viewing of Cranky Geeks, and now it looks like the show itself may be ending it's run! :down: There will be at least one more episode next week, and while comments during this week's show had an air of uncertainty, comments made on this page seem pretty definite. I really hope they find a home for the show with Rev3 or another provider and that Tivo will be able to continue providing access to it should it turn up somewhere else. If it really does end next week, I'm going to have to retire my Cranky Geeks T-shirt!


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Who carries Cranky Geeks? Let's rally a form a boycott!!!


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

steve614 said:


> Who carries Cranky Geeks? Let's rally a form a boycott!!!


It's been weird. It was from ZDNET, then I think Adam Curry's Mevio picked it up or it's been independent.

You'd think TWIT could add it, but it's too much like TWiT. Maybe by Jason Calcanis' This Week in ( clever name ).


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Yeah this sucks. I didn't watch the show for more then a year because I couldn't get it on TiVo. Now it finally comes back to TiVo and the show itself gets canceled. 

Dan


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## TiVo Steve (Nov 8, 2005)

John's not as cranky as he used to be anyway... mellowing with age I guess.


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## knuckles (Dec 21, 2002)

That stinks. I really enjoy Cranky Geeks.


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

Just heard Dvorak mention this on yesterday's TWiT ... this Wednesday will be the last episode (it's already been taped).

Too bad ... I really enjoyed the show (the video podcast, not on TiVo).


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

I was a little disappointed that they didn't get Sebastian back for the last show. 

Or Danica Patrick. 

I liked the "End of Life" definition at the end, nice touch.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Sad. 'twas a good show.


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## TiVoEvan74 (Sep 11, 2004)

Say it ain't so, Joe!

It's one of those small delights in life... it will be sad to see it go!


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

For some reason, I got 2 versions. One titled "*** Episode 237" and one titled "*** Episode 237 -- MP3 version".
What's up with that?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I did too. No reason to bother TiVo about it though since the show is no more. 

Dan


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## S3-2501 (Jun 2, 2007)

Sorry to bump this thread, but it seemed the right place to mention that there's a new daily short-format show that John Dvorak is now hosting with two frequent former Cranks called X3. It can be found at http://x3show.mevio.com/

Any chance this willl be available for download to Tivo?


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

don't know, but thanks. I'm checking it out.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

If the RSS feed is compatible with Tivo, you can manually add it.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

No luck:
"The video has an unknown or incompatible format and cannot be processed by TiVo."


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## S3-2501 (Jun 2, 2007)

orangeboy said:


> No luck:
> "The video has an unknown or incompatible format and cannot be processed by TiVo."


Bummer. Thanks for giving it a try though! I guess it isn't too surprising that it won't work since this new show is on Mevio just as Cranky Geeks was, and the Cranky Geeks RSS feed wouldn't work directly either.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Ehhh... I just watched an episode. It's basically the same format as the old CrankyGeeks just with only one story rather then 5-6. Why is everything moving to this short format? Do people really lack the attention span to watch more then 4 minutes of content at a time?

Dan


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## S3-2501 (Jun 2, 2007)

I'll take 4 daily minutes of Cranky Geeks over none, though I'd obviously prefer the old longer format.

If it ever gets added to Tivo, I suppose we could let them download all week and end up with roughly 20 minutes of content to watch at once similar to the old show.


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## shadowplay (Mar 12, 2003)

Thanks, I'll grab it from iTunes (just have to remember to log in there a few times a week)...


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> Do people really lack the attention span to watch more then 4 minutes of content at a time?


Yes.

I downloaded episode 225 on 7/3. I downloaded episode 237 on 9/25. They're sitting on my TiVo right now, but I haven't watched either episode. Why? Because the rent is too damn high. Oh, never mind, that's a different conversation. It's because the shows are too long. I have so many other things I watch that these never get to the top of my todo list.

But if the content were broken up into shorter topics, I would be more likely to watch a 5 or 10 minute episode about something I knew interested me. Similar to the way I watch 60 minutes. They tease (usually) 3 topics, I then FF to only the ones I'm interested in, then I watch Andy Rooney at the end of the show. Cranky Geeks wasn't set up that way; it wasn't easy to FF directly to a topic.


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## jaredmwright (Sep 6, 2004)

I was able to download it using the Custom RSS feed feature and watch episode #2 with no problem on my Premiere.

I used this URL: http://www.mevio.com/feeds/x3show.xml


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

steve614 said:


> If the RSS feed is compatible with Tivo, you can manually add it.





orangeboy said:


> No luck:
> "The video has an unknown or incompatible format and cannot be processed by TiVo."





jaredmwright said:


> I was able to download it using the Custom RSS feed feature and watch episode #2 with no problem on my Premiere.
> 
> I used this URL: http://www.mevio.com/feeds/x3show.xml


Cool - They must have changed their encoding. That's the same RSS xml link I used for the first episode a few days ago.


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## S3-2501 (Jun 2, 2007)

I just tried the RSS on my original S3 (OLED) and while it worked, the audio and video are full of glitches. There also wasn't a way to make any kind of season pass for the feed, though the Tivo seems to remember it and keeps it listed as X3 under custom feeds so I can just check that every few days and download them manually.

I'll try on my TivoHD later and see if there's any difference in behavior between the two.

Edit: Just tried it on my TivoHD and the video played fine. Looks like the format they are presently using may not be completely friendly to the original S3, but works fine with the HD and Premiere.


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