# My Final Dealings With Tivo



## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

Some people know this story, some people dont. The final chapter was written yesterday and Im amazed once again at how I was treated by Tivo. I've owned 5 Tivos throughout the years and Im just flabbergasted with how bad their service has gotten. As a warning to everyone and what you should expect when you call customer service, I'm going to post my story one final time.

I know there are going to be a lot of Tivo fan boys in here bashing me over this thread and FYI, I was just as much of a Tivo fan as everyone else here before this last incident but after being treated the way I was by Tivo, Im done with them and I hope what happens to me doesn't happen to anyone else.

Back in July I moved and needed a new Tivo. I called Tivo, spoke with a customer service rep and told them how I wanted to use my new Tivo and I wasnt sure if I needed a Series II and a TivoHD. I wanted to use OTA for locals/high def and analog cable for everything else. The rep at Tivo told me to go for the TivoHD since it was supposed to be the best of both worlds.

So.. I go out and buy a TivoHD. Come home, hook it up and everything is great. I pay for a year of service up front and at that point, life should have been grand. After getting the box up and using it for a couple of days, I had to remove it from my entertainment center to rewire/reconfigure everything. So I rebuilt my whole entertainment system because I wasnt happy with how I had originally put it together when I moved. Took me about 10 days because I was working a lot and didn't have a lot of time to spend at home.

A few days after I get everything going again, my TivoHD took the latest software update and several days after that, I started coming home to grey screens on both tuners and no shows recording. I thought perhaps I had an HDMI cable or something that had gone back so I swapped cables, etc around and the problem persisted. Eventually I discovered here that there was a bug with the analog tuner and at that point, I called Tivo.

I was told by the person on the phone "Yes, we're aware of it and we know what's causing it so just hang on and a fix is in the works." So.. after recommending this box to me, I find out later that it actually has a showstopper bug for what Im trying to use it for. The rep at Tivo tells me to wait or "If it gets to the point you cant stand it, call me back and Ill see what I can do."

Im the meantime, I PM one of the Tivo employees that posts here, tell him my story about what's going on, the problem Im having and asked if there is anything he can do to help me out.. maybe get me into a beta software test for the TivoHD if there is a fix being tested for the unit. I get a very rude reply back from said Tivo employee basically telling me to suck it up and deal with it.

So I deal with it for a while and finally get sick of it and yank the box out and throw it under the bed and forget about it.

Yesterday I decided to call Tivo and see if I could cancel my service and not pay for what's left of the year I paid for. Im not using it, the box hasnt phoned home in 4 months so hopefully they'll work with me.

*Wrong*

Tivo refused to cancel the service and refund me. They freely admit they sold me a box that would not do what I wanted it to do and they also admit that yes, the box does not work as advertised since the analog input is practically useless and it's advertised as being analog compatible.

Their solution? Buy a Premiere because, and I quote "The Premiere doesnt have any of these analog problems." So they managed to fix it for the next gen device but us TivoHD owners are left holding the bag. I tell the guy in no uncertain terms that I dont think I should lay out several hundred dollars AGAIN to accomplish what this box is advertised to do and SHOULD do. He told me that there was nothing he could do but I could try exchanging my TivoHD for another one for $49.95. I said "Why would I want to do that since this is a known bug?" and he really didnt have no answer for me.

The windup was he ended up refusing to do anything for me except cancel my service, which he did. So I lost money on the year of prepaid service I paid for as well. All I wanted was to cancel the service and get a refund for the few months left I prepaid for. They refused to do that as well even tho once again they freely acknowledge that the box DOES NOT do what it's advertised to do.

I'm sorry but this is the absolute worst customer service I've ever encountered. I didnt want a Premiere for free or anything.. I would have been happy with them working with me to find a solution. All of their solutions just involved me spending more money with them. They know the box doesnt work and they dont care and dont want to make the situation right. If the guy told me one more time "Well, you need to get a cablecard....." I was going to scream.

So there you have it. Im sure the vast majority of the responses will be "Well WTF, analog sucks anyway, just get a cablecard and STFU" but thats not how I intended to use the machine and I shouldn't have to go out and spend more money to make something work when it doesnt do what its supposed to do to begin with.

Good luck to Tivo in the future. They dont give a crap about their customers. Once they got your money and have you locked into a commitment, they know you're stuck and dont really care if you're happy with the service or not but hey, keep spending money with them!


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## kevinbuckeye (Mar 27, 2009)

Why didn't you just take it back before the 30 day return window expired? You knew you would be locked in a contract after that.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

I feel your pain.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

kevinbuckeye said:


> Why didn't you just take it back before the 30 day return window expired? You knew you would be locked in a contract after that.


By the time I figured out it was a software problem, the 30 day window had passed.


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## michifan (Mar 3, 2010)

I purchased 2 HD Tivos in December and ordered the extender (which was on indefinite backorder). After just over a month, I called customer service and told them that I was frustrated that I couldn't get a extender, and had I known that it wouldn't be available, I'd have ordered a XL.

I told the guy that even though the 30 day period was over, if they'd take back one of my HDs - I'd buy from them a XL. The guy on the phone told me to hold and came back and said they can do it.

A week later I get the XL, but no RMA to return my HD. I call the customer service number and find that the guy didn't do anything more than sell me an XL. That there was no RMA available because I bought the unit more than 30 days prior. I explained the situation and asked them to pull the phone calls or check the notes. I couldn't believe that someone would be so fraudulent. After sending an email to the VP of Sales, I was contacted by someone in their executive customer service program and we worked out a swap for a refurbished XL if I kept the new XL (three total units). I asked the agent of the 30 day guarantee still held on the XL - because depending on the Premier XL, I might want that as well.

Well, the Premier XL debuts - I call to 'return' the XL and order a Premier XL. But this time they cancelled my service, ordered me a PXL but never issued the RMA. Had to call two more times to get an RMA and I still haven't sent it in.

All in all, there is some folks at TIVO that have great customer service and some folks at TIVO that are incompetent.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

KungFuCow said:


> As a warning to everyone and what you should expect when you call customer service, I'm going to post my story one final time.


 I have called 3 times - not with any hassle like you had, but still I had good customer care.


> I know there are going to be a lot of Tivo fan boys in here bashing me over this thread


 no bashing, it would have been better for TiVo to take care of you since it was their known bug but...


> I wanted to use OTA for locals/high def and analog cable for everything else. The rep at Tivo told me to go for the TivoHD since it was supposed to be the best of both worlds.


 and that is exactly the design of the Tivo HD. I use two of them just like that myself and both record very reliably with no grey screen issues. The CSR gave you the correct answer.



> I had to remove it from my entertainment center to rewire/reconfigure everything. So I rebuilt my whole entertainment system because I wasnt happy with how I had originally put it together when I moved. Took me about 10 days because I was working a lot and didn't have a lot of time to spend at home.
> 
> A few days after I get everything going again, my TivoHD took the latest software update and several days after that, I started coming home to grey screens on both tuners and no shows recording.


 TiVo can not be held to task if you decide to let the box sit idle for any length of time. The 30 days is clear to all. I had that happen with Tiger Direct - bought a motherboard for someone to build them a PC but did not get to it for a few weeks. By then it was well past 30 days and the despite fact that the board was known to not handle the latest OS versus the ad from Tiger Direct touting the latest OS, they said I was out of luck. I was just as pissed as you are over this, and very unlikely to ever buy from TigerDirect again, but in the end it was my fault for not using the 30 day period wisely.



> I discovered here that there was a bug with the analog tuner and at that point, I called Tivo.
> 
> I was told by the person on the phone "Yes, we're aware of it and we know what's causing it so just hang on and a fix is in the works." So.. after recommending this box to me, I find out later that it actually has a showstopper bug for what Im trying to use it for. The rep at Tivo tells me to wait or "If it gets to the point you cant stand it, call me back and Ill see what I can do."


 *and we come to your fatal mistake.* The rep had hundreds of calls after that before you came back. Either get an RMA or get any other agreement in writing in your hands. Politely insist on written and in your hands and they almost always give an RMA. anything else, especially "call me back" is just to get you off the phone. 
snipped out the private message part. No way to know anything about it, though I am not saying I disbelieve you.


> So I deal with it for a while and finally get sick of it and yank the box out and throw it under the bed and forget about it.


 mistake number 2. You should have written to TiVo right then. Throwing it under the bed and forgetting about it is not something TiVo can control


> Yesterday I decided to call Tivo and see if I could cancel my service and not pay for what's left of the year I paid for. Im not using it, the box hasnt phoned home in 4 months so hopefully they'll work with me.
> 
> *Wrong*
> 
> Tivo refused to cancel the service and refund me.


and tha twas completely within there guidelines and terms you agreed to at sale. Answer this honestly to yourself - if the mainboard had blown a circuit at 7 months and you called in, a 75$ RMA would have been fine with you I assume. Still TiVo inc.s fault, you did nothing to make it go bad. However; you can not go with the prior history since you did not get an RMA in 30 days and the first phone call had no real promise and certainly nothing in writing you can document the earlier phone call with.
So here it is 7 months out and you want TiVo to step outside the terms of the sale and give you money back versus accept the stated policy of an out of warranty replacement. If it had been a blown circuit you yourself would likely say - well take the terms as stated at sale. Be honest.

so I think back to how I felt about Tiger Direct and I understand the exact place you are coming from. Heck I am still mad at Target over a $3.33 they wanted to ding me because of their policies.

but in the cold light of rational logic - we both know that in my case and your case, the policy was clear enough and the company was acting within their policies. They lost a subscriber over it and I have no problem with anyone saying TiVo should have stepped out of their little castle of policies and done you a solid but....
at some point the customer has to take responsibility as well for dealing in the terms agreed to at sale.


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## SnakeEyes (Dec 26, 2000)

So what is the analog tuner bug?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

michifan said:


> I purchased 2 HD Tivos in December and ordered the extender (which was on indefinite backorder). After just over a month, I called customer service and told them that I was frustrated that I couldn't get a extender, and had I known that it wouldn't be available, I'd have ordered a XL.


why not cancel the extender from TiVo and go to best Buy and get one. Seems much simpler.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I have called 3 times - not with any hassle like you had, but still I had good customer care.
> no bashing, it would have been better for TiVo to take care of you since it was their known bug but...
> and that is exactly the design of the Tivo HD. I use two of them just like that myself and both record very reliably with no grey screen issues. The CSR gave you the correct answer.
> 
> ...


Actually all I wanted was a box that worked as advertised. If the box did what it was supposed to do, none of this would have happened. I dont mind the monthly fee, I dont mind buying the box. However, Tivo KNOWS this box WILL NOT work like I want it to and the reason it wont is because THEY broke it.

Should I have returned it? Maybe but I didnt know anything about this bug when I yanked it from my entertainment center. It didnt show back up until I reconnected it and the software updated.

Tivo could have done something.. anything.. and I would have probably been receptive to it but everything they wanted to do was going to cost me more money. "Sell your TivoHD and buy a Premiere" is what they essentially told me to do. "With service paid through July, you should be able to recoup some of your money."

Well ya know what? IF THE THING WORKED LIKE THEY ADVERTISE IT, I WOULDNT HAVE TO DO ANY OF THAT but yet they still want me to spend more money with them.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

SnakeEyes said:


> So what is the analog tuner bug?


on a TiVo HD if you simply hook up analog cable and no cable cards
the analog tuners are used versus the digital tuners. For _some***_ boxes the software loses its control of the analog tuner and all that is recorded or displayed on live TV is a grey screen. having an OTA record digital channels at times seems to alleviate the problem and also being able to tune to a digital channel gets the software control of analog tuner back on track. Absent an OTA antenna and digital channels the only fix is to reboot the box to allow the software control of the anlaog tuner again. If the gray screen happens on Sunday night while you and the wife are out - then there is hell to pay when Desperate housewives is a blank recording 

* the actual number of boxes this happens on is not known very well. Like I said I have 2 boxes - and one had the gray screen a few times and then stopped and both have been rock solid. Obviously there are others that have the issue. what the exact root cause is remains unknown to the forum.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> at some point the customer has to take responsibility as well for dealing in the terms agreed to at sale.


What was agreed to at the time of sale was a unit that will tune and record unencrypted analog cable stations. Basic, core, tivo functionality.

The OP isn't asking for much. A refund of a couple months of service. Tivo doesn't want to solve the analog problem. Then compensate those customers.


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## ldconfig (Sep 7, 2004)

I think if Tivo gave kungfucow a new premier XL with lifetime would be really cheap PR. I know it would make me feel better about buying a new box.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

KungFuCow said:


> Actually all I wanted was a box that worked as advertised. If the box did what it was supposed to do, none of this would have happened.


again - I was just being rational about the terms. If you had used the box more in the first 30 days you knew was your only no hassle return window and saw the update and problem nad gotten an RMA then none of the rest would have happened. Your statement and this statement are just as true.

I can see your view that TiVo should have ditched their policies in this case and done you a solid but like I said - throwing the TiVo under a bed is not getting anything from TiVo and if you decided not to follow up right away then you might as well have just left the TiVo under the bed and moved on.


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## dae3dae3 (Dec 15, 2009)

I use my Tivo HD exactly how you say you want to and have no problems. It can't be a case of false advertisement because it does exactly what you are talking about.

Yes, I believe you that your unit is not working but it isn't a problem of false advertising. I would think they could have just swapped your unit out for you since it is capable of doing what you want when it is operating properly. If you're within the first year they should still be able to do this although they will probably make you pay a repair fee since it is after 30 days.

I know you don't want to hear that you made any mistakes but you shouldn't have stuck it under your bed. You screwed yourself when you did that by moving yourself out of the return and warranty period. You let frustration and procrastination screw you.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

lew said:


> What was agreed to at the time of sale was a unit that will tune and record unencrypted analog cable stations. Basic, core, tivo functionality.
> 
> The OP isn't asking for much. A refund of a couple months of service. Tivo doesn't want to solve the analog problem. Then compensate those customers.


correct - and it was agreed that if the customer saw they did not get that in the first 30 days then there is a no hassle return. After 30 days - it changes as per the terms.

IANAL but in law like terms...
Would you expect a blown circuit to be different? For compensation outside the terms you would have to show that the design process did not follow due diligence and that TiVo knew of the problem directly or should have known and sold the box anyhow. This is what lawyers are now gearing up to discover about Toyota. Here with grey screen the damages to the individual are kind of small to get lawyers interested and the fact that TiVo can hide behind that is justifiably annoying. Lesson learned on using the 30 day window wisely.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

dae3dae3 said:


> I use my Tivo HD exactly how you say you want to and have no problems. It can't be a case of false advertisement because it does exactly what you are talking about.
> 
> Yes, I believe you that your unit is not working but it isn't a problem of false advertising. I would think they could have just swapped your unit out for you since it is capable of doing what you want when it is operating properly. If you're within the first year they should still be able to do this although they will probably make you pay a repair fee since it is after 30 days.
> 
> I know you don't want to hear that you made any mistakes but you shouldn't have stuck it under your bed. You screwed yourself when you did that by moving yourself out of the return and warranty period. You let frustration and procrastination screw you.


Well, they werent even willing to swap my unit without me paying a $50.00 fee and Im still within the first year.

Truthfully I didnt procrastinate. I had pretty much made up my mind I was done with Tivo when I yanked the box. I talked to them, I talked to someone that works there on the forums here and no one was willing to take ownership of the problem and work towards a solution. I only called them when I did figuring it was a waste of money to be paying for something I wasnt using. I really didnt expect anything and thats what I got.

I just dont understand the logic. This is a known bug, they even verified it with engineering that yes, this is a real problem. But they dont seem willing to do anything about it other than "Sell your TivoHD and get a Premiere."

Far as the poster saying they shoulda given me a Premiere and free lifetime.. thats a bit extreme and I woulda taken it but they could have made me happier for a whole lot less but they didnt even attempt to. They dumped it all back on me and told me to just do the best I could.


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## ldconfig (Sep 7, 2004)

A lot of folks after a trauma need time to cool off. Its not good for anyone to have to deal with an issue like this when your really upset.
I also can understand a bug like this going unfixed because it helps grease the wheels so to speak on dealing with the content cartels ... oops I mean cable co. on future issues like tru2way and other features customers want.
Again I think it would be a great idea at this point for Tivo to overnight a new premier XL with lifetime to KungFuCow. Its very cheap for Tivo to do and to me would mean more than TV ads and best buy salespeople talking it up.
ld


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

KungFuCow said:


> Far as the poster saying they shoulda given me a Premiere and free lifetime.. thats a bit extreme and I woulda taken it but they could have made me happier for a whole lot less but they didnt even attempt to. They dumped it all back on me and told me to just do the best I could.


yeah, now that I posted about your ownership in the problem I agree with you as well that TiVo also could have stepped up to its part in the ownership of the problem as well. A RMA and waiving of the fee due to the nature of the problem seems pretty reasonable to me.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> yeah, now that I posted about your ownership in the problem I agree with you as well that TiVo also could have stepped up to its part in the ownership of the problem as well. A RMA and waiving of the fee due to the nature of the problem seems pretty reasonable to me.


Yea.. instead I got "Well, there's nothing we can do and Ill go ahead and completely cancel your service."

They offered NO solution that didnt involve me shelling out more money.. either pay the $50.00 fee or sell my HD and buy a Premiere and use the last 4 months of my subscription on the Premiere.

Tivo customer service FTL


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

KungFuCow said:


> They offered NO solution that didnt involve me shelling out more money.. either pay the $50.00 fee or sell my HD and buy a Premiere and use the last 4 months of my subscription on the Premiere.
> 
> Tivo customer service FTL


It was still all within the terms you agreed to at sale though. 50$ would have been the perfectly acceptable offer if say a circuit on the mainboard had gone bad. Lets not forget that. 

The waiving of the fee only seems reasonable since it was more a design issue than a simple part failure. Both kinds of things can simply never be 100% prevented.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> The waiving of the fee only seems reasonable since it was more a design issue than a simple part failure. Both kinds of things can simply never be 100% prevented.


If its a design issue then they should not be promoting this unit to work with analog cable. They know it doesnt work right, they admitted as much. Solution? Buy a Premiere.

About the only kind of solution that it looks like would have been reasonable since Tivo is washing it's hands of the problem would have been for me to return it within 30 days and I didnt so I guess thats my fault. If I took that stance on everything I bought that didnt work right out of the box (Which is commonplace these days), I would have returned my Samsung Moment phone, my Nexus One phone, 90% of the software Ive bought in the last 5 years and who knows what else. Shipping stuff in "beta" form has become all too common. Most companies eventually rectify the problem. Tivo apparently does not nor do they care to.


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## SnakeEyes (Dec 26, 2000)

It does work with analog cable. Others use it exactly the way it was intended and how you want to be able to. The problem is it apparently doesn't properly work in all situations. That doesn't mean they shipped beta software. They may not have even known it was a problem when shipped. Sometimes testing doesn't uncover everything.

Well, guess what, that's technology. Windows OS doesn't always properly for all people in the same way. Sometimes problems exist at launch and sometimes problems don't get discovered until down the road. Yet MS doesn't list every single potential known problem. Yet you don't get to demand MS give you any money back later. You had your 30 days and were ok with the situation at the end of 30 days or didn't object at that time. This shouldn't be on TiVo at all.

And how do you know TiVo isn't looking into the problem? The fact that others use their TiVo in a manner that you want to be able to says that the problem may not be widespread. It may be known but that doesn't mean widespread. It also doesn't mean they have isolated yet. The smaller the group of affected people the lower priority that their problem is going to get addressed. The small team of developers aren't going to put down what they doing to track down your issue, create a fix, and push an update just for you. In addition to that, the fewer the people that a bug affects the harder it can be to squash.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

KungFuCow said:


> If its a design issue then they should not be promoting this unit to work with analog cable. They know it doesnt work right, they admitted as much. Solution? Buy a Premiere.


The problem is that this problem isn't a "written in stone" issue, and not all units will do it. It's well known that some units have the issue, but plenty of others never do.

I had a TivoHD that did it 3 times in the first month, then settled in and ran for almost 2 more years with never a gray screen until it just got FiOS CableCARDS last month. It's a sucky problem, but it's not a 100% reproducable one, which I believe has hampered the squashing of the bug.

Diane


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

KungFuCow said:


> Well, they werent even willing to swap my unit without me paying a $50.00 fee and Im still within the first year.


That's because between 90 days and 1 year, the warranty only covers parts. You have to pay labor. Although this isn't exactly the same as them fixing your Tivo and making you wait weeks if not months and then charging actual labor costs, it is a reasonable alternative.

So you would have been out $50 and could have had a Tivo that actually worked. Instead you canceled a prepaid subscription after doing nothing for several months and you lose out on what? 2/3 of your prepay which is even more than the $50 you're whining about.
Good job! Make your own situation worse and then whine about it as if you're a victim of something other than your own inaction.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

KungFuCow said:


> If its a design issue then they should not be promoting this unit to work with analog cable. They know it doesnt work right, they admitted as much. Solution? Buy a Premiere.


except that I have *two* TiVo HDs that are working just fine with analog cable and OTA. It does not effect everyone and frankly if you do not have the gray screen issue the basic cable plus OTA for HD stuff is an awesome combo and saves me quite a bit on my cable bill. So I know it does work.

You need some numbers on what % of analog customers it truly impacts before you can make claims that TiVo should not promote the box for such. I have not seen anyone with accurate numbers.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> You need some numbers on what % of analog customers it truly impacts before you can make claims that TiVo should not promote the box for such. I have not seen anyone with accurate numbers.


I dont know.. I know mine did it 2 or 3 times a day after the software updated on the unit. Its a known bug, the guy in customer support even went and talked to a tech guy about it and said "Oh yea, we know about that. The Premiere doesnt have that problem."

Anyways, its 6 in one hand half a dozen in the other. It cost me less to cancel the service than it would have to have sent it back so Im really not out anything.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

Personally I don't know any other company exept for Tivo that will not prorate or refund service fees if service provided was not acceptable. Phone companies, utilities, cable, satellite - all the companies I ever paid for service would at least refund me for the time service was not working correctly.


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

Why would you throw the TivoHD under your bed and forget about it??? If it didn't work for your specific situation that is uncommon to most, just put the box up on eBay and recoop some $$$, then get a Premiere. 

I would figure most people use cable cards with their TivoHD, so it's not like you're selling a lemon. You're selling a TivoHD that works the same as one someone would buy off the shelf at Best Buy.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

inaka said:


> Why would you throw the TivoHD under your bed and forget about it??? If it didn't work for your specific situation that is uncommon to most, just put the box up on eBay and recoop some $$$, then get a Premiere.
> 
> I would figure most people use cable cards with their TivoHD, so it's not like you're selling a lemon. You're selling a TivoHD that works the same as one someone would buy off the shelf at Best Buy.


I did put it on Craigslist and some local stuff. Then the price dropped and the thing wont hardly bring anything now. Ebaying it I doubt I get much for it and by the time Paypal and Ebay get their cut, Id be lucky to get $50.00 for it.


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

when I was trying to buy a Tivo HD they were all going for well over $150... I watched about 50 of them sell in the month before the Premiere was announced.... they may have dropped since the premiere, but I bet you still would get some decent money


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## cyberangel (Mar 12, 2010)

I am also at the end of my rope with TIVO. My screen has been freezing for a year or more and I lose the signal and have to reboot TIVO all the time. I'm told by TIVO it's a software glitch and they are working on a patch, however I've paid for a service and still missing my shows. I understand how you feel, believe me!


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

KungFuCow said:


> I did put it on Craigslist and some local stuff. Then the price dropped and the thing wont hardly bring anything now. Ebaying it I doubt I get much for it and by the time Paypal and Ebay get their cut, Id be lucky to get $50.00 for it.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Absent an OTA antenna and digital channels the only fix is to reboot the box to allow the software control of the anlaog tuner again.


Not true for all. I ran into this problem fairly often, and while I rebooted at first.. Eventually I realized that, FOR ME, changing channels (analog channels) and/or rewinding/FFing in the buffer would fix it temporarily.

Again, that's not a fix and not meaning to dismiss the problem. I think the problem stinks and should be fixed.. but I happen to have cablecards in my TivoHD now so haven't run into it in a long time. (I don't remember if I ever ran into it on my S3 -- if I did, it went away long ago though it's only been analog only.)


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## bschuler2007 (Feb 25, 2007)

I had this problem as well, but going cablecard solved it. It was happening to my recordings like twice a week and I rebooted to get the tuners back.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

bschuler2007 said:


> I had this problem as well, but going cablecard solved it. It was happening to my recordings like twice a week and I rebooted to get the tuners back.


I have cablecards and it still happens on average once every two weeks or so.

For a DVR to lose one or more recordings even every couple of weeks is disgraceful.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

I haven't kept track... How long has Tivo kept their analog-borking software update online without pulling it, or at least fixing it? About 1.5 years now? More? At some point, they just kinda look like an 8-bit operation for not owning up to the problems they create without supplying a timely remedy.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

mattack said:


> Not true for all. I ran into this problem fairly often, and while I rebooted at first.. Eventually I realized that, FOR ME, changing channels (analog channels) and/or rewinding/FFing in the buffer would fix it temporarily.


so you mean changing to a digital channel or rebooting is not the only fix? 
If this happened to me and I wanted to/had to keep the box I would get a 30$ OTA natenna and set up recodings at various times of the day on a digital channel. They could be 10 minutes long and keep at most 1 if there was nothing you wanted to watch on the digital channels.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> I haven't kept track... How long has Tivo kept their analog-borking software update online without pulling it, or at least fixing it? About 1.5 years now? More? At some point, they just kinda look like an 8-bit operation for not owning up to the problems they create without supplying a timely remedy.


They do own up to it. They admit its a problem. Theyre just not interested in fixing it. Its been at least since last July and I think long before that.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Indeed, they did finally acknowledge it's existence. That was the easy part, since it was undeniable. It's roughly a year and a half old to my knowledge.


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## Crrink (Sep 3, 2002)

KungFuCow, if you're still upset call your credit card company and dispute the charge. Up to you if you think you're entitled to a full refund, but I think your credit card company will rule in your favor.


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## SpiritualPoet (Jan 14, 2007)

About the known bug: Why don't people who experience this problem do one or more of three things: 1) Write to Consumer's Union, publisher of Consumer Reports and get it to focus on the matter in an upcoming issue, and/or 2) Hire a lawyer to file a class action lawsuit against TiVo for misrepresentation of the product? Maybe once all the lawyers get paid off owners of the HD Series 3 technology units can get a fraction of their investment back so they can upgrade to the Premier units and port their lifetime plans to them regardless of the firm's resistance to do so. 3) Write the Better Business Bureau office in California or in whichever state TiVo is based and file a complaint.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Agreed, I think the BBB complaint route is valid in KFC's case. Might not get anywhere, but you never know.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Is there a thread on the TiVo HD not supporting analog? I used my Series 3 reliably with analog for 3+ years.


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## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

slowbiscuit said:


> Agreed, I think the BBB complaint route is valid in KFC's case. Might not get anywhere, but you never know.


What does the chicken franchise have to do with TiVo?


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Adam1115 said:


> Is there a thread on the TiVo HD not supporting analog? I used my Series 3 reliably with analog for 3+ years.


This bug seems to only impact THD boxes, mine included. Never had a problem with the original S3.

But yep there's a thread:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=413206


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> This bug seems to only impact THD boxes, mine included. Never had a problem with the original S3.
> 
> But yep there's a thread:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=413206


After reading that thread, I'm with the OP. File a BBB complaint, maybe even a small claims lawsuit.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

Adam1115 said:


> After reading that thread, I'm with the OP. File a BBB complaint, maybe even a small claims lawsuit.


+1

This issue affects core functionality of the product.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

Adam1115 said:


> After reading that thread, I'm with the OP. File a BBB complaint, maybe even a small claims lawsuit.


I filed a BBB complaint. I doubt it gets me anywhere but might as well see where it goes. Im still dumbfounded with how bad Tivo's support has become.


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## JohnBrowning (Jul 15, 2004)

These *I'm Leaving TiVo* pronouncement postings always make me laugh!


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

KungFuCow said:


> I filed a BBB complaint. I doubt it gets me anywhere but might as well see where it goes. Im still dumbfounded with how bad Tivo's support has become.


Sometimes it cuts through the CSR idiocy and gets an actual company rep involved...


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

BBB does not have any power to enforce anything at all. Credit card route as suggested in another post will get you your money back. Tell your CC company that your subscription plan does not provide services promised and you will get a refund on your money.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

JohnBrowning said:


> These *I'm Leaving TiVo* pronouncement postings always make me laugh!


They make me cry.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

samo said:


> BBB does not have any power to enforce anything at all. Credit card route as suggested in another post will get you your money back. Tell your CC company that your subscription plan does not provide services promised and you will get a refund on your money.


Yea.. thats why I figured it wouldnt do any good.

Im not looking to get anything out of Tivo. Im really kind of over it. If they came back and offered me something, great. If they dont, whatever. Ive owned several ReplayTVs, five Tivos, a Moxi and even have a cable DVR. Ive run the gambit. I like Tivo more than the others but their service has gone in the crapper. My post wasnt to bash Tivo, it was to tell me story so other people know what theyre going to get dealing with Tivo. As with any company, once they start growing, customer service is usually the first thing to go out the window.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

JohnBrowning said:


> These *I'm Leaving TiVo* pronouncement postings always make me laugh!


Im glad I brought a chuckle to your day.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

JohnBrowning said:


> These *I'm Leaving TiVo* pronouncement postings always make me laugh!





scandia101 said:


> They make me cry.





KungFuCow said:


> Yea.. thats why I figured it wouldnt do any good.


I laughed, I cried but the ending just did not wrap everything up well.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Successful credit card chargebacks for both the service and the unit might make TIVO sit up and take notice depending on how many people pursued it.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

Credit card disputes have to be filed within 60 days of the date of the statement with the disputed charge.

The OP has passed that deadline. A small claims court filing is his option.


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## SnakeEyes (Dec 26, 2000)

Not necessarily. Depends on the credit card company.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

I dont know the legal implications of doing a chargeback. It may just end up causing Tivo to put a collections agency after me and I dont really need that. I have great credit, I dont want to screw it up.

The BBB emailed me that my complaint has been submitted to Tivo. I fully expect a "F U" from Tivo given the dealings I've had with them over the last 8 months but maybe they will surprise me.


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## c_franklin (Jan 24, 2010)

I had an HD box that consistently got the gray screen too. I found reports of it on many forums. My symptoms were common with those experiencing the problem. Although I have been a loyal customer, they almost lost me over it too. Years of confidence in Tivo, were lost over the a period of 25 days. I doubt it will ever return.

It turned out I had one of those unknown number boxes that consistently exhibits the problem. Many reports correlated a recent software update with the start of the problems. I purchased my HD after the update, so I don't know if that is true for my hardware. I do know they made subsequent software updates that decreased the frequency of the problem on my box. Instead of daily, it became weekly. Still unacceptable.

Based on the circumstances, it was reasonable to assume a future software release would correct, or workaround, the problem. Every time, I called they assured one was. At one point, a Tivo employee indicated the problem was with a new brand of tuner that was used in the HD box. At that time, they didn't know if it was a bad lot of parts, a bad design, or their unfamiliarity with the new device. This information is from last year. I am sure they know more now.

I called with every gray screen occurrence. They had an extensive troubleshooting history on my bad box. I figured I would return it to the retailer. Roll the dice on getting something better. Tivo would eventually get my lemon back and it could help understand the problem. I have no idea what happened to it. They probably sold it to KungFuCow. The replacement HD didn't have the problem. It is likely that Tivo gave up the fight last year, so they could focus their engineering staff on the premiere. This is a guess, not a fact.

In retrospect, it seems easy to offer suggestions on how KungFuCow could have handled the situation differently. Having lived through it myself, it is not that easy. For years, Tivo had provided me with excellent service and equipment. Like many of the people on this forum, in my eyes they could do no wrong. I know better now.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

c_franklin said:


> Like many of the people on this forum, in my eyes they could do no wrong. I know better now.


People just like me work at these companies. Since they are just like me, the idea 'they could do no wrong' has never occurred to me. Of course I could be wrong about all this.


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## c_franklin (Jan 24, 2010)

ZeoTiVo said:


> People just like me work at these companies. Since they are just like me, the idea 'they could do no wrong' has never occurred to me. Of course I could be wrong about all this.


I work at one of those companies too. Having a flaw in a product is nothing new. Its all about what you are willing do about it.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

KungFuCow said:


> It may just end up causing Tivo to put a collections agency after me


Not going to happen.


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## Chris2519 (Mar 14, 2010)

Wow. Still amazed by comments like "These 'I'm Leaving TiVo' postings make me laugh."

I envy those geniuses that can find hilarity in reading about people's incredibly frustrating customer service experiences. I mean, I know how hard I laugh when I'm going through it myself. Especially since it's always my own fault, never has anything to do with companies promising services they don't deliver on, or manufacturing faulty equipment that seems to be engineered to fail within months of the warranty expiration, yet still enjoy sucking hundreds of dollars of subscription fees while making no attempt to soothe the frustration and inconvenience I've experienced as a result of my choosing to become a customer in the first place. Oh, wait -- that last part actually WAS my fault.

Yeah, hilarious.

Fetishize your little black boxes all you want -- their customer service sucks, and, as you will find out some day when you have your own problem with them, they don't care about you, either. But hey, for now, just enjoy feeling superior and whacking off to your program guide.


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## Crrink (Sep 3, 2002)

KungFuCow said:


> I dont know the legal implications of doing a chargeback. It may just end up causing Tivo to put a collections agency after me and I dont really need that. I have great credit, I dont want to screw it up.
> 
> The BBB emailed me that my complaint has been submitted to Tivo. I fully expect a "F U" from Tivo given the dealings I've had with them over the last 8 months but maybe they will surprise me.


File a complaint with both the CA Attorney General's office, and the one in your state. You could also file a complaint with the FTC. I know from experience that the CA AG and FTC sites make it very easy to electronically file a complaint. The AG will get back to you for sure - the FTC may or may not.

I don't know if it will change anything at TiVo, but it probably can't hurt.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

Crrink said:


> File a complaint with both the CA Attorney General's office, and the one in your state. You could also file a complaint with the FTC. I know from experience that the CA AG and FTC sites make it very easy to electronically file a complaint. The AG will get back to you for sure - the FTC may or may not.
> 
> I don't know if it will change anything at TiVo, but it probably can't hurt.


Well, I filed at BBB complaint and its already been forwarded to them. Like I said, I dont expect anything from them. MAYBE they'll waive the fee and exchange my unit but since the rep canceled my remaining service, that's kind of useless at this point.

It would seem to me at this point that Im in the very small majority of people that are suffering through this problem. Cablecard isnt really an option for me financially because of the way my cable is billed. Its through my apartment and is billed as a bulk account. I pay $50 a month for cable AND internet. I cant upgrade either of them without stopping paying the $50, canceling both and paying full price for them. So essentially just adding a cable card will double my bill every month.

I told the Tivo rep this. I actually did add a cable card trying to solve this problem but there was some questions about the bill which I was told would be "sorted out later" and when I got the first bill, the cable card got canceled and returned. I told Tivo this, they weren't sympathetic other than "Well, sell your TivoHD and buy a Premiere."

It would have been nice if they had stepped up and offered me something to rectify the situation. Im not gonna lose any sleep over it tho and Ill just see what the BBB filing does.. maybe Ill pursue it further but I really dont feel liek Tivo gives a crap and escalating it probably wont accomplish anything.


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## SpiritualPoet (Jan 14, 2007)

I don't know if TiVo is a member of the Chamber of Commerce but it too should be notified in the city of TiVo's headquarters. Also, type a complaint at ripoffreport dot com. There may already be a thread of disgruntled TiVo customers there. If not, start one and every person who experiences this problem can and should post to it as well. Sometimes bad publicity works wonders. Call your local TV station's consumer affairs on-air personality (if it has one to start a report). Sometimes if the report is worthy enough, it will be syndicated or picked up by a network. Call ABC, FOX, NBC and CBS and try to get a story going on the fallacy of the TiVo series 3 units. Who knows? "60 Minutes" might even have an interest in the story!


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

SpiritualPoet said:


> I don't know if TiVo is a member of the Chamber of Commerce but it too should be notified in the city of TiVo's headquarters. Also, type a complaint at ripoffreport dot com. There may already be a thread of disgruntled TiVo customers there. If not, start one and every person who experiences this problem can and should post to it as well. Sometimes bad publicity works wonders. Call your local TV station's consumer affairs on-air personality (if it has one to start a report). Sometimes if the report is worthy enough, it will be syndicated or picked up by a network. Call ABC, FOX, NBC and CBS and try to get a story going on the fallacy of the TiVo series 3 units. Who knows? "60 Minutes" might even have an interest in the story!


You must be kidding! It's not like TiVo killed somebody. Who in the right mind will run a story about electronics glitch unless it is run away Toyota.


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

KungFuCow said:


> I did put it on Craigslist and some local stuff. Then the price dropped and the thing wont hardly bring anything now. *Ebaying it I doubt I get much for it and by the time Paypal and Ebay get their cut, Id be lucky to get $50.00 for it.*


That's complete complete b.s.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

inaka said:


> That's complete complete b.s.


Well, Ill have to check Ebay and see what the going rate is.


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## questions (Mar 7, 2010)

KungFuCow said:


> I did put it on Craigslist and some local stuff. Then the price dropped and the thing wont hardly bring anything now. Ebaying it I doubt I get much for it and by the time Paypal and Ebay get their cut, Id be lucky to get $50.00 for it.


Why are you selling it if you know it does not work and gives a grey screen?

You're going to screw someone over.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

questions said:


> Why are you selling it if you know it does not work and gives a grey screen?
> 
> You're going to screw someone over.


Remember the Grey screen issue only affects a subset of the users (no cable cards, but analog cable.) If the buyer is using OTA or Cable Cards, the Tivo will be fine.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

TriBruin said:


> Remember the Grey screen issue only affects a subset of the users (no cable cards, but analog cable.) If the buyer is using OTA or Cable Cards, the Tivo will be fine.


For the umpteenth time the Grey screen issue *CAN and DOES* affect users with cable cards. I have them and I have the Grey screen issue in spades.


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

KungFuCow said:


> Well, Ill have to check Ebay and see what the going rate is.


It's nothing what you claim and takes about 10 seconds to find out.
Just brings into doubt everything you've said about your dealings with tivo when you spout off b.s. like this, sorry.


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## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

lew said:


> Credit card disputes have to be filed within 60 days of the date of the statement with the disputed charge.
> 
> The OP has passed that deadline. A small claims court filing is his option.


Some cards have a extended warranty terms, and resolution of sale agreements. I have been way passed 30 days with stuff, and stores had to take it back. No one wants to deal directly with a cc company.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

samo said:


> You must be kidding! It's not like TiVo killed somebody. Who in the right mind will run a story about electronics glitch unless it is run away Toyota.


Yeah, that made me LOL. "Next on 60 Minutes: some TiVos don't record all analog recordings."


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

inaka said:


> It's nothing what you claim and takes about 10 seconds to find out.
> Just brings into doubt everything you've said about your dealings with tivo when you spout off b.s. like this, sorry.


Well, I could start posting PMs between me and a Tivo rep here on the forum but Im not going to do that. You can believe what you want to believe. I never really thought about selling the thing other than throwing it on Craigslist once.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

MickeS said:


> Yeah, that made me LOL. "Next on 60 Minutes: some TiVos don't record all analog recordings."


How about "Cable Companies Collude to prevent separable security mandate from being successful" ?


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

RoyK said:


> For the umpteenth time the Grey screen issue *CAN and DOES* affect users with cable cards. I have them and I have the Grey screen issue in spades.


I kept meaning to come back to this and say something.
I agree, there is indeed a gray screen issue for some CableCARD users, and I feel bad that you're bitten by it, on the other hand, the analog gray screen issue for non-CableCARD units seems to be far more frequent then the users in your situation.

I would lay good odds it's a different root cause from its common brother since for the "average HD unit with analog only that gets gray screens" it usually goes away when the unit gets a cableCARD.
In no way do I mean to say that your scenario is less important, just that it's far rarer.

Diane


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

Stormspace said:


> How about "Cable Companies Collude to prevent separable security mandate from being successful" ?


Did you take lessons from Ahmadinejad?


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

samo said:


> Did you take lessons from Ahmadinejad?


I forgot to add the . I do believe cable companies have moved on with plans knowing full well it would break compatibility with existing devices like cable card TV's and third party STB's, but I couldn't resist the alliteration of it all.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

dianebrat said:


> I kept meaning to come back to this and say something.
> I agree, there is indeed a gray screen issue for some CableCARD users, and I feel bad that you're bitten by it, on the other hand, the analog gray screen issue for non-CableCARD units seems to be far more frequent then the users in your situation.
> 
> I would lay good odds it's a different root cause from its common brother since for the "average HD unit with analog only that gets gray screens" it usually goes away when the unit gets a cableCARD.
> ...


Same root cause - its just that when cable cards are used on some provider's systems they tune to digital versions of the analog channels. The problem doesn't manifest itself on those systems simply because the TiVo isn't tuning to analog channels.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

dianebrat said:


> I kept meaning to come back to this and say something.
> I agree, there is indeed a gray screen issue for some CableCARD users, and I feel bad that you're bitten by it, on the other hand, the analog gray screen issue for non-CableCARD units seems to be far more frequent then the users in your situation.
> 
> I would lay good odds it's a different root cause from its common brother since for the "average HD unit with analog only that gets gray screens" it usually goes away when the unit gets a cableCARD.
> ...


Thats my thinking as well and why I dont ever expect it to be fixed.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

KungFuCow said:


> Thats my thinking as well and why I dont ever expect it to be fixed.


Moxi has no issues with analog recordings


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## klaatu2005 (Jan 14, 2005)

I'm totally with you KuFu Cow. Talking to the BBB is a good way to possibly resolve your dispute ( it's worked with many tough companies ). But what of the other people this has happened to ??? Are they just supposed to be out hundreds of $$$ for a KNOWN defective product ???? Hell no !!!

Why doesn't one of you go to a laywer, tell him of all the issues surrounding the HD model, and start a Class-Action Lawsuit. I GUARANTEE that if hit TIVO where it hurts ( In the Pocketbook ), they'll take note very quickly. And if they can't repair it, then either give you back exactly what you paid ( or a FAIR market value ), and/or ( if the plaintiff wants ), put that amount towards a new TIVO and/or service.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

klaatu2005 said:


> put that amount towards a new TIVO and/or service.


he has a Moxi that works, why would he want another TiVo at this point?


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## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

ZeoTiVo - Did someone hijack your account?


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

daveak said:


> ZeoTiVo - Did someone hijack your account?


 Different look, different motto, different editorial policy confused. Same post count though.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

daveak said:


> ZeoTiVo - Did someone hijack your account?


No, he's just being childish. I'm not impressed with anybody who intentionally causes trouble for everybody else - there are other ways he can make his point.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Moxi has no issues with analog recordings


I thought Moxi didn't do analog cable without a $129 add on USB tuner and then could only record 1 channel at a time. Did this change since the original release? I don't follow Moxi because I am OTA only. Or was a this tung in cheek post?

Thanks,


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

daveak said:


> ZeoTiVo - Did someone hijack your account?


No


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

CrispyCritter said:


> No, he's just being childish. I'm not impressed with anybody who intentionally causes trouble for everybody else - there are other ways he can make his point.


What trouble am I causing? Seems I caused more trouble being all up in the air about the forum, whatever. Now I am just having fun and live and let live.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

atmuscarella said:


> I thought Moxi didn't do analog cable without a $129 add on USB tuner and then could only record 1 channel at a time. Did this change since the original release? I don't follow Moxi because I am OTA only. Or was a this tung in cheek post?
> 
> Thanks,


correct - Moxi is designed from the ground up to be a digital recorder and thus not have the issues recording analog. Look back in my posts and you will see I thought TiVo should follow that lead and come out with a digital only DVR as well for those who do digital cable, which is a significant market.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

ZeoTiVo said:


> What trouble am I causing? Seems I caused more trouble being all up in the air about the forum, whatever. Now I am just having fun and live and let live.


I have never put anybody on my Ignore list in all my years here, and as you know I am somewhat more active and confrontational than others. But you are very close to being put on my list - that's how upset I am at your behavior.

You are currently childishly treating this forum as your private playground to prove a point - not being honest in your motivations. And as you may have gathered in the past, I react strongly to people not being honest.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

CrispyCritter said:


> I have never put anybody on my Ignore list in all my years here, and as you know I am somewhat more active and confrontational than others. But you are very close to being put on my list - that's how upset I am at your behavior.


and you do not know me or my motivations - Ironic that it is me you are all mad at versus others...


> You are currently childishly treating this forum as your private playground to prove a point - not being honest in your motivations. And as you may have gathered in the past, I react strongly to people not being honest.


I am the first one not being honest?
anyhow you are personally insulting me which is a violation of forum rules.
So I will continue to not cause trouble - hopefully you can just put me on ignore if it bothers you so much.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

Yes, after reading thousands upon thousands of your posts over the years, I feel I *do* know you're not being honest in why you're doing this. But since you evidently feel the forum is improved by these Moxi posts, I'll leave you to it, unseen by me. Don't bother replying to me, since I won't see it.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> he has a Moxi that works, why would he want another TiVo at this point?


Thats correct. I do have a Moxi with the Analog dongle.

Its difficult to compare the Moxi and the Tivo. They both do the same thing but they also do vastly different things as well. Moxi will let you stream Hulu, etc while the home media streaming capabilities of Tivo are superior.

I only bought the Moxi because Tivo didnt/wouldnt fix my issue or offer me any kind of workaround other than "Get a cablecard." If Tivo came back and offered me something that I felt was reasonable, Id probably switch back at least for a while.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> What trouble am I causing? Seems I caused more trouble being all up in the air about the forum, whatever. Now I am just having fun and live and let live.


Who is the troll now?

Here is a link to the definition of hypocrite.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/netdict/hypocrite


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

CrispyCritter said:


> Yes, after reading thousands upon thousands of your posts over the years, I feel I *do* know you're not being honest in why you're doing this. But since you evidently feel the forum is improved by these Moxi posts, I'll leave you to it, unseen by me. Don't bother replying to me, since I won't see it.


I think it's unfortunate but I can understand his frustration. fatlard has admitted that he's posting just to goad people and evidently that's ok.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

nrc said:


> I think it's unfortunate but I can understand his frustration. fatlard has admitted that he's posting just to goad people and evidently that's ok.


Wow. How is it my fault? I did not even post to this thread prior to that message about him being a hyprocrite.

just wow. You guys are a joke.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

dianebrat said:


> I kept meaning to come back to this and say something.
> I agree, there is indeed a gray screen issue for some CableCARD users, and I feel bad that you're bitten by it, on the other hand, the analog gray screen issue for non-CableCARD units seems to be far more frequent then the users in your situation.


Gray screen issues are more rare for cable card users because most cable carriers simulcast their analog channels as digital and those are the channels TiVo uses if they're available.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

fatlard said:


> Wow. How is it my fault? I did not even post to this thread prior to that message about him being a hyprocrite.
> 
> just wow. You guys are a joke.





fatlard said:


> Just the same reason some people here have over 5,000 post. It is actually quite fun garnering a response from certain people


nc


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

fatlard said:


> Wow. How is it my fault? I did not even post to this thread prior to that message about him being a hyprocrite.
> 
> just wow. You guys are a joke.


Again, you must entirely clueless if it took you longer than 3-4 of his posts to realize they were directly aimed at you and your behavior. I quite frankly don't believe that you are that clueless, and that once again you are trolling.

As is obvious, I strongly disagree with ZeoTiVo's tactics. But that doesn't mean I don't understand his motivation.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

fatlard said:


> Who is the troll now?
> 
> Here is a link to the definition of hypocrite.
> 
> http://www.merriam-webster.com/netdict/hypocrite


it is not all about you


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## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

ZeoTiVo said:


> it is not all about you


Are you guys breaking up? That sounds close to the classic, "It's not you, it's me," speech. Say it isn't so, I look forward to the continuing battle of apples and oranges - on the forum built for those who use apples. 

I don't have an iPhone...


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

daveak said:


> I don't have an iPhone...


Me neither.. I rock a Nexus One.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

KungFuCow said:


> Me neither.. I rock a Nexus One.


HTC Tilt 2 for me. Does everything an iPhone can do except for dropping calls  - oh and it does Flash as well.

ETA - oh yeah - it has a QWERTY keyboard as well.


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

Blackberry Bold


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

daveak said:


> I don't have an iPhone...


Same here. I have yet to find a touchscreen device I like.

Currently using the EnV Touch on Verizon. Touchscreen and qwerty keyboard for the best of both.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

Well, we've had a spat in this thread and talked about our cell phones and Ive had no communication from Tivo.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

KungFuCow said:


> Well, we've had a spat in this thread and talked about our cell phones and Ive had no communication from Tivo.


This thread is going on longer than the problem that started it.


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## Torgo (Dec 31, 2001)

lessd said:


> This thread is going on longer than the problem that started it.


We should just stick the thread under our beds for a few months, and then look at it again


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

KungFuCow said:


> Well, we've had a spat in this thread and talked about our cell phones and Ive had no communication from Tivo.


Sounds like you've both moved on.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

I can't believe this thread. Why anyone would consider using a highly capable (not to mention rather expensive) HD box to view analog signals is entirely beyond me. Why anyone would actually watch an analog source once they have seen decent quality (let alone high quality) HD is unfathomable. If you really want to watch analog cable <wretch!!>, then get a lifetime subbed Series I for $30. Analog cable, even the best analog cable, is unwatchable. It also isn't going to be around very much longer. This is a tempest in one of the tiniest teacups I have ever seen.

Let me guess... you guys are pissed because your new BMW did not come with an 8-track tape player, too? Gee, come to think of it, I just paid $550 for a Yamaha AVR, and I just now realized it doesn't have a phonograph input. Boy, now I'm pissed.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Chris2519 said:


> Wow. Still amazed by comments like "These 'I'm Leaving TiVo' postings make me laugh."


They are being sarcastic, or at least sardonic. It's easier and arguably more effective than trying to explain at length why they feel the previous poster is out of line. I won't argue whether the OP in this case deserved such treatment or not.



Chris2519 said:


> I envy those geniuses that can find hilarity in reading about people's incredibly frustrating customer service experiences.


Do I really need to explain that they likely really don't find it funny? Speaking for myself, I do find endless whining to be inappropriate, and there is lots of whining going on in this thread, not to mention quite a few others.



Chris2519 said:


> I mean, I know how hard I laugh when I'm going through it myself.


Before you or anyone else indulges in any emotion related to such a situation, I suggest (or at least wish) the individual would take a very long, hard look at the situation and realize to what extent the problems are of their own making. More often than not, the lion's share of the causes of the problem lie squarely at the feet of the plaintiff. In this particular instance, the OP's share is more than ordinarily large.



Chris2519 said:


> Especially since it's always my own fault, never has anything to do with companies promising services they don't deliver on, or manufacturing faulty equipment that seems to be engineered to fail within months of the warranty expiration, yet still enjoy sucking hundreds of dollars of subscription fees while making no attempt to soothe the frustration and inconvenience I've experienced as a result of my choosing to become a customer in the first place.


Geez, and I thought cancer patients had it bad. When did Americans loose their collective huevos? For God's sake, people need to quit sniveling. You say you were frustrated? Fair enough. Life is frustrating. Get over it. (Why is it that the people who truly have horrible problems involving incredible grief or excruciating pain are rarely ever heard to complain, while those with very little real cause to complain whine on endlessly?)



Chris2519 said:


> Oh, wait -- that last part actually WAS my fault.


Ah, there it is. The "F" word. The veritable mantra of the whiner. Fault. What an almost useless notion. You did decide to make the purchase. All the following events are then indeed your responsibility, the fact some of the subsequent events were out of your direct control notwithstanding.

All that said, I do not give TiVo very high marks at all for their technical support. It's quite bad, or at least has been the times I have availed myself of it. Nonetheless, it's still better than what has so very sadly become the norm for tech support in the U.S. (not that much of it is actually done in the U.S. any more). I have found their customer service to be fairly good, however, albeit not exceptional.

OTOH, if you want to experience both truly horrendous technical support and customer service, I suggest you try Cricket Wireless. You also might give Nortel or AT&T local a try. AT&T local has always had bad technical support, but a few years ago Nortel had some of the best technical support on the planet. Now it is among the worst.



Chris2519 said:


> Yeah, hilarious.


No, more like pathetic.



Chris2519 said:


> Fetishize your little black boxes all you want -- their customer service sucks, and, as you will find out some day when you have your own problem with them, they don't care about you, either. But hey, for now, just enjoy feeling superior and whacking off to your program guide.


Oooh. What a witty rejoinder. Surely the other posters in the thread must be mortally wounded.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

lrhorer said:


> I can't believe this thread. Why anyone would consider using a highly capable (not to mention rather expensive) HD box to view analog signals is entirely beyond me. Why anyone would actually watch an analog source once they have seen decent quality (let alone high quality) HD is unfathomable.


It doesn't require a genius. If the programming one wants to watch is only available in analog then there isn't much choice now is there? And for some cable systems -- like mine -- adding a cable card *doesn't* get you a digital version.



lrhorer said:


> If you really want to watch analog cable <wretch!!>, then get a lifetime subbed Series I for $30. Analog cable, even the best analog cable, is unwatchable. It also isn't going to be around very much longer. This is a tempest in one of the tiniest teacups I have ever seen.


So because the box I purchased doesn't reliably do what it is advertised to do I should spend more money and add one more box to the already full entertainment center?



lrhorer said:


> Let me guess... you guys are pissed because your new BMW did not come with an 8-track tape player, too? Gee, come to think of it, I just paid $550 for a Yamaha AVR, and I just now realized it doesn't have a phonograph input. Boy, now I'm pissed.


You should have read the specifications on your Yahama AVR. I read the specs on my TiVoHD and it says right there that it supports analog cable with no footnotes that it only works most of the time.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

RoyK said:


> It doesn't require a genius. If the programming one wants to watch is only available in analog then there isn't much choice now is there? And for some cable systems -- like mine -- adding a cable card *doesn't* get you a digital version.


Personally for analog and OTA recordings I would be using 7MC with a 360 as an extender especially if you use both sources since potentially you could have up to 8 tuners by having 4 tuners for analog and 4 for OTA. Then again for me it would just have been the cost of adding tuners and additional hard drive space.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

innocentfreak said:


> Personally for analog and OTA recordings I would be using 7MC with a 360 as an extender especially if you use both sources since potentially you could have up to 8 tuners by having 4 tuners for analog and 4 for OTA. Then again for me it would just have been the cost of adding tuners and additional hard drive space.


I do have a Media Center PC with W7MC & 2 tuners. It works fine on both analog & digital -- unlike the TiVoHD. It will likely be getting a Ceton card soon....

All of which has nothing to do with the TiVoHD software bug


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I was merely addressing the point about not having much choice. Personally on FiOS I have no access to analog channels so I can't confirm or deny the existence of a bug, but if I did only watch analog channels I personally couldn't justify the cost of a TiVo.

What cable company is only offering some channels on analog feeds?


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

innocentfreak said:


> I was merely addressing the point about not having much choice. Personally on FiOS I have no access to analog channels so I can't confirm or deny the existence of a bug, but if I did only watch analog channels I personally couldn't justify the cost of a TiVo.
> 
> What cable company is only offering some channels on analog feeds?


I do not watch "only" analog channels. 
JetBroadband for one. There are others.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

lrhorer said:


> Let me guess... you guys are pissed because your new BMW did not come with an 8-track tape player, too? Gee, come to think of it, I just paid $550 for a Yamaha AVR, and I just now realized it doesn't have a phonograph input. Boy, now I'm pissed.


Probably a more approriate analogy would be that his BMW came with a cassette player, but it eats his cassettes. Now given your mindset you might consider that doing him a favor, but he's happy to keep listening to his cassettes.

Fortunately he was able to find a Chevrolet Impala and get an add on cassette player for it. So far it works just fine. But if BMW would just offer him something to go back to them he'd consider it.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

innocentfreak said:


> I was merely addressing the point about not having much choice. Personally on FiOS I have no access to analog channels so I can't confirm or deny the existence of a bug, but if I did only watch analog channels I personally couldn't justify the cost of a TiVo.


That's rather the crux of the matter. If all one needs is to pull a milk cart, one does not purchase a $500,000 thoroughbred, nor, having purchased a $500,000 thoroughbred, does one employ the thoroughbred to pull a milk cart.



innocentfreak said:


> What cable company is only offering some channels on analog feeds?


'Not many. 480i channels take so little bandwidth (11 channels per QAM), it doesn't make much sense not to broadcast them in digital, as well. As you mention, FIOS is already 100% digital, and in less than 2 years it is likely just about all CATV systems will have gone 100% digital. With an 11 to 1 spectrum efficiency coefficient for linear channels vs analog channels, it just doesn't make sense not to do so. With SDV the number is ridiculous.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

nrc said:


> Probably a more approriate analogy would be that his BMW came with a cassette player, but it eats his cassettes. Now given your mindset you might consider that doing him a favor, but he's happy to keep listening to his cassettes.


No, that's off the mark. The TiVo isn't destroying property he already owns. A better analogy would be if his BMW came with a cassette player that does not work, although I still maintain the 8-track analogy is closer. And no, I would not say it is doing him a favor, but I would also stop short of saying it is doing him a disservice (unless it actually is eating the tapes). To refine the analogy a bit more, we must specify that the Impala's cassette player will also stop working within two years.



nrc said:


> Fortunately he was able to find a Chevrolet Impala and get an add on cassette player for it. So far it works just fine. But if BMW would just offer him something to go back to them he'd consider it.


The salient point is that a non-working cassette player is not sufficient grounds to qualify the BMW as inferior to the Impala, nor a prudent excuse to dump the BMW in favor of the Impala, especially in light of the fact soon the Impala isn't going to fill the bill, either. If all he wanted from the vehicle was a cassette player, then he should have purchased the Impala in the first place. To be sure, one may be understandably disappointed if a purchase does not perform entirely as expected, but it does not follow that a product should be considered inferior just because it does not meet one person's expectations.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

lrhorer said:


> The salient point is that a non-working cassette player is not sufficient grounds to qualify the BMW as inferior to the Impala, nor a prudent excuse to dump the BMW in favor of the Impala, especially in light of the fact soon the Impala isn't going to fill the bill, either. If all he wanted from the vehicle was a cassette player, then he should have purchased the Impala in the first place. To be sure, one may be understandably disappointed if a purchase does not perform entirely as expected, but it does not follow that a product should be considered inferior just because it does not meet one person's expectations.


Better analogy would be a Toyota that has acceleration problem that only shows up for the few users and manufacturer either can not or will not fix the problem vs Impala that just works. And I agree, he should have purchased an Impala because Toyota is overpriced and overhyped.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

lrhorer said:


> ... To be sure, one may be understandably disappointed if a purchase does not perform entirely as expected, but it does not follow that a product should be considered inferior just because it does not meet one person's expectations.


If products A,B,C,D,& TiVoHD are all specified to tune analog and A,B,C,D all do with no problems and TiVoHD only tunes analog most of the time, and a portion of the programming one is purchasing the product for is in analog then TiVoHD is inferior. Period. No matter how you try to twist it.

Wishlists, suggestions, and season passes are irrelevant if the program chosen doesn't record.

MRV is irrelevant if there is no program to transfer.

Search is irrelevant if.. well you get the idea. Most of the the features that could make the TiVoHD a superior product are irrelevant if when you sit down to watch a program it isn't there or is only partly there.

The probability that all programming will be available in digital in the next couple of years is especially irrelevant. I purchased the TiVoHD to use a year and a half ago - not at some point in the future.

And its a shame because TiVo has been handling analog fine for years. There's no magic there.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

RoyK said:


> If products A,B,C,D,& TiVoHD are all specified to tune analog and A,B,C,D all do with no problems and TiVoHD only tunes analog most of the time, and a portion of the programming one is purchasing the product for is in analog then TiVoHD is inferior. Period. No matter how you try to twist it.
> 
> Wishlists, suggestions, and season passes are irrelevant if the program chosen doesn't record.
> 
> ...


QFT.. I dont know any better way to say it than that.


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## T1V0 (Jun 14, 2006)

daveytrackels said:


> I don't understand... can someone please explain it to me?


you're banned

how's that?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

daveytrackels said:


> I don't understand... can someone please explain it to me?


yeah - he just did not buy a Moxi to begin with


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

lrhorer said:


> The salient point is that a non-working cassette player is not sufficient grounds to qualify the BMW as inferior to the Impala, nor a prudent excuse to dump the BMW in favor of the Impala, especially in light of the fact soon the Impala isn't going to fill the bill, either.


Just to be clear, I wasn't implying that the Impala would be the better choice. If anything, quite the opposite. I was just making the distinction that the problem is legacy technology that is supposed to work but sometimes doesn't, as opposed to your analogy which was that the legacy technology wasn't available at all.


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## DoULikeCake (Feb 25, 2010)

KungFuCow said:


> Some people know this story, some people dont. The final chapter was written yesterday and Im amazed once again at how I was treated by Tivo. I've owned 5 Tivos throughout the years and Im just flabbergasted with how bad their service has gotten. As a warning to everyone and what you should expect when you call customer service, I'm going to post my story one final time.
> 
> I know there are going to be a lot of Tivo fan boys in here bashing me over this thread and FYI, I was just as much of a Tivo fan as everyone else here before this last incident but after being treated the way I was by Tivo, Im done with them and I hope what happens to me doesn't happen to anyone else.
> 
> ...


Boo hoo.

Get an RF Filter. Also, it's in the thing they read off to you (or if you sign online) that they don't refund service that you choose not to use.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

DoULikeCake said:


> Boo hoo.
> 
> Get an RF Filter. Also, it's in the thing they read off to you (or if you sign online) that they don't refund service that you choose not to use.


Thanks for your support. Im glad your Tivo is working great for you.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

Well.. its been a couple of weeks since I filed the BBB complaint and crickets from Tivo. About what I expected.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

KungFuCow said:


> Well.. its been a couple of weeks since I filed the BBB complaint and crickets from Tivo. About what I expected.


How is the Moxi working for you


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> How is the Moxi working for you


Its working fine. I do miss Tivo's media streaming as its way better than Moxi's but other than that, the Moxi is a fine unit.

I did get a call from someone in Tivo's customer relations department today. They offered to exchange my TivoHD for another TivoHD and to "uncancel" my subscription but they didnt offer to back credit me for the time my unit has not phoned home and has been out of service. I dont really want a refund if theyre going to send me a new unit, just my subscription to be extended for a few months.

The rep told me that the new unit would probably only grey screen once or twice a week or maybe not at all. I asked if he thought once or twice a week was still acceptable and he said "Well, not really but its all I can do."

I told him at this point lets just do nothing and for him to call me back in a week or so and lets see if anything has changed. I dont see the point in replacing a piece of hardware with a known bug with another piece of hardware with the same bug, especially when Tivo admits the bug is there and that they havent fixed it.

Bottom line, I asked them to work something out with me on a Premiere since they claim it does not have the same issues. He said he couldnt but maybe he could in a week or two so he's going to call me back.


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## jakerome (Nov 29, 2002)

I was set to buy a TiVo PXL upon release, but some less than pleasant exchanges with CSRs left me with a bitter taste in my mouth. Instead, I'll stick w/ TiVo until my subscription expires in June and then decide whether to jump ship.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

jakerome said:


> I was set to buy a TiVo PXL upon release, but some less than pleasant exchanges with CSRs left me with a bitter taste in my mouth. Instead, I'll stick w/ TiVo until my subscription expires in June and then decide whether to jump ship.


Today was the first halfway positive exchange Ive had with them since all this started. Its a shame it took a BBB complaint to get that.

Like I said above, at this point, giving me another unit with the same issue isnt much of a solution. Im going to give them a couple more weeks I suppose and see how it all unfolds.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

KungFuCow,

TIVO admits the unit is defective and refuses to fix the defect. A credit card chargeback would be a slam dunk.


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## Scott Atkinson (Jan 19, 2004)

Having nursed along a Tivo with the analog problem for a year now (while an S2 and an S1 chug merrily along, never freezing nor gray-screening) my sympathies are with KFC.

Somebody a couple of pages ago called this 'core functionality.' Exactly. Not to add yet another bad analogy to the thread, but when I buy a fridge, I expect it to just work, both in the main part and the freezer. It's an _appliance_, not a general purpose computer with media stuff bolted on.

What we have with this subset of S3s is a fridge that's always cold on top, but whose freezer periodically just doesn't work, sending water sloshing across the kitchen floor and ruining that steak you saved.

Saying 'why would anyone use analog' is akin to saying, 'why would anyone use a freezer when so many fresh options are available.' Nice thought, but some of us need a freezer.

You can't sell a type of machine with a known showstopper (even if you're not sure that the _particular_ box you're selling has it) and then hem and haw about the statute of limitations. The first and most important sin is yours.

The 'buy a Premiere' answer is annoying because it moves Tivo out of the appliance category (it just...works) and into the computer category, (if Vista sucks, we'll fix it in Win 7.)

Anyway, back to my original point: whatever KFC did wrong was mild and unimportant compared to what was broken out of the box. He's right, Tivo is wrong and he should get something for his troubles.

Scott A.
Watertown NY


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## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

If you reported this issue while under warranty, and have documentation to support that, you have a very good case to request a refund or a premiere. Simply write a certified letter to their CEO and tell them you either want a box that works or a refund. If they can't provide you with either they have left you with no option than to file suit for "breach of warranty" under California's consumer protection statutes.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

solutionsetc said:


> If you reported this issue while under warranty, and have documentation to support that, you have a very good case to request a refund or a premiere. Simply write a certified letter to their CEO and tell them you either want a box that works or a refund. If they can't provide you with either they have left you with no option than to file suit for "breach of warranty" under California's consumer protection statutes.


I did call them well within the warranty period. They told me to sit tight, which I did until it was obvious a fix was not forthcoming. I mean, its 8 months later and there still isnt a fix for this and by Tivo's own admission, there probably wont be because the Premiere is the new favorite son.

I just dont see the point in swapping the box for another one that might go out less. The tuner only going out "2 or 3 times a week" is not really much better than it going out 7-10 times a week like before. It still means when I get home at night, 2 or 3 nights a week, nothing is going to have recorded.

I dont think anyone here would find that acceptable.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Maybe they will let you swap out for a Premiere. According to bkdtv they are using a new part for analog tuning which shouldn't suffer from the bug some people including yourself experience.


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## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

I would not refuse them the opportunity to make it right&#8230; it may affect your rights regarding the "breach of warranty" status. Let them do whatever they want to do, but be sure to document all transactions as being related to the original complaint made within the warranty period. If they are unable to address the issue originally reported within the warranty period in a reasonable amount of time they are in breach of that warranty.


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## phillipsg (Mar 30, 2010)

Like many of the people in this thread, I too was having trouble with my Tivo box (Tivo HD). I was experiencing difficulty with the Video on Demand feature and the ability to stream Netflix. It had been working fine for the last few months and within the last week or so, it stopped working or was working sporadically and then rebooting itself. I called Tivo support tonight and they walked me through the typical diagnostics. Long story short, they finally agree to authorize an exchange. Then the bomb drops. They want $50 to exchange the unit, because it's past the 90 warranty period (unit was purchased in Sept 2009). On top of that, Tivo wants a $250 deposit to advance ship a refurb box to me because (in unspoken words) they don't trust me enough to ship my box back to them once I receive the replacement. Why they think I'd want to keep a unit that is not working is a little odd, but hey whatever. The alternative was to ship mine to them first, but I wasn't about to do that and have them lose it and not be able to prove that I shipped it to them in the first place. (sorry, you don't trust me..I don't trust you) Bottom line, like most of the people on here, I've been a longtime Tivo member (6+ years). This is the first time I've ever had a problem with one of their units, and I have 3 of them. To call into customer support though and have them not be supportive in any way whatsoever is very disconcerting. I paid up front for a year of service because I've enjoyed the product and I believed that I would continue to be a longtime customer for years to come. After tonight's experience though, I will no longer be buying Tivo S--- or renewing my existing service. It's not worth it knowing that there's no support behind their product whatsoever, unless you're willing to fork over more money to fix the problem.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Sorry but many companies require a deposit to cross-ship or ship the replacement first. Some companies won't do it at all.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

phillipsg said:


> Then the bomb drops. They want $50 to exchange the unit, because it's past the 90 warranty period (unit was purchased in Sept 2009).


huh? Even Moxi would make people pay for repairs that are outside the stated warranty


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

phillipsg said:


> Like many of the people in this thread, I too was having trouble with my Tivo box (Tivo HD). I was experiencing difficulty with the Video on Demand feature and the ability to stream Netflix. It had been working fine for the last few months and within the last week or so, it stopped working or was working sporadically and then rebooting itself. I called Tivo support tonight and they walked me through the typical diagnostics. Long story short, they finally agree to authorize an exchange. Then the bomb drops. They want $50 to exchange the unit, because it's past the 90 warranty period (unit was purchased in Sept 2009). On top of that, Tivo wants a $250 deposit to advance ship a refurb box to me because (in unspoken words) they don't trust me enough to ship my box back to them once I receive the replacement. Why they think I'd want to keep a unit that is not working is a little odd, but hey whatever. The alternative was to ship mine to them first, but I wasn't about to do that and have them lose it and not be able to prove that I shipped it to them in the first place. (sorry, you don't trust me..I don't trust you) Bottom line, like most of the people on here, I've been a longtime Tivo member (6+ years). This is the first time I've ever had a problem with one of their units, and I have 3 of them. To call into customer support though and have them not be supportive in any way whatsoever is very disconcerting. I paid up front for a year of service because I've enjoyed the product and I believed that I would continue to be a longtime customer for years to come. After tonight's experience though, I will no longer be buying Tivo S--- or renewing my existing service. It's not worth it knowing that there's no support behind their product whatsoever, unless you're willing to fork over more money to fix the problem.


Don't feel picked on. You're getting the warranty that is consistent with TiVo's stated warranty and is well known to anyone who reads this forum.

Got to **this TiVo support page** and expand the first item listed, yielding this:


> TiVo DVR limited warranty come free of charge along with the purchase of your DVR and offers 90 days of coverage for parts & labor and a year of coverage for parts only, starting from the DVR purchase date


90 Days Parts and Labor and one year Parts only. Also stated in the Viewer's Guide that came with your TiVo.

Based on this, why would you expect not to pay something after 90 days?

Also, TiVo would be suckers to send you a replacement unit without either having your unit in hand, or a charge to your credit card. If they did that, there would be many people who would "neglect" or "procrastinate" sending their units back.

I have a 10-month old HD and have had a week or two where Netflix acted flakey and caused some reboots. Unfortunately the TiVo Netflix function is not as robust to network glitches as it should be. I suspect what has changed in your case is not the TiVo but the quality of your Internet connection.

I would suggest waiting at least until you receive the 11.0f software update, which is supposed to be pushed out within the next week, before you give up on the unit you have.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

solutionsetc said:


> I would not refuse them the opportunity to make it right it may affect your rights regarding the "breach of warranty" status. Let them do whatever they want to do, but be sure to document all transactions as being related to the original complaint made within the warranty period. If they are unable to address the issue originally reported within the warranty period in a reasonable amount of time they are in breach of that warranty.


Well.. after talking to the rep, we both decided it would be best to wait until he could offer me a Premiere. Apparently they dont even have the Premiere in their system yet so it wasnt an option at all.

Im way outside the warranty anyway at this point. I bought the unit in July and called them in late July or early August. At that point they told me they knew about the problem and told me a fix was coming and I should just sit tight but if it got too bad to call them back.

Like I said before, if they want to upgrade me, that's fine, Ill take it. I just dont see the point in going the TivoHD route again when the problem hasnt been fixed. "Its better" is not the same as "Its fixed." I dont want a car that breaks down and leaves me stranded 2 days a week.


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## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

dlfl said:


> Don't feel picked on. You're getting the warranty that is consistent with TiVo's stated warranty and is well known to anyone who reads this forum.
> 
> Got to **this TiVo support page** and expand the first item listed, yielding this:
> 
> ...


This. They are honoring the warranty and terms you agreed to in the purchase.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

daveak said:


> This. They are honoring the warranty and terms you agreed to in the purchase.


I agree with you there but it seems kind of ridiculous you have to carry service for a year and the box isnt warrantied the whole time.


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## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

KungFuCow said:


> I agree with you there but it seems kind of ridiculous you have to carry service for a year and the box isnt warrantied the whole time.


I thought the service fee you pay (monthly, yearly, lifetime) had nothing to do with the warranty.


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## T1V0 (Jun 14, 2006)

KungFuCow said:


> I agree with you there but it seems kind of ridiculous you have to carry service for a year and the box isnt warrantied the whole time.


then why would you buy a box and agree to the terms of service?

cell phones come with 2 year contacts and 1 year warranties, [insert 1 million other examples of contract/warranties for other consumer electronics here]

nothing ridiculous about it. the word that comes to mind is..... "normal" ?


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## jmX (May 7, 2004)

Even tho I'm a 10 year long Tivo customer, it's pretty appalling how many people are defending Tivo in this thread. They sell a product that they themselves know is broken to a customer, the customer immediate finds out it is broken, and they suggest he should "wait for a fix". He waits, as suggested, and now the warranty is up. Tivo says he's SOL.

End of story.

I don't care what Tivo's policies are or what silly agreements we're all under, the guy has a right to be angry. This is Tivos fault, not his. Tivo cant be so cocky if they expect to keep the few customers they have remaining.


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## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

daveak said:


> I thought the service fee you pay (monthly, yearly, lifetime) had nothing to do with the warranty.


Whether you're billed monthly or not, you have to commit to at least one full year of service. I think this is what he's referring to.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

jmX said:


> the customer immediate finds out it is broken, and they suggest he should "wait for a fix".


actually he called after 30 days initially cause he was taking his media cabinet apart to put it together better.
Then he just shoved it under a bed and did nothing for quite some time.
I agree that TiVo could step up and deal with their problem better but lets keep the original post facts in mind


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> actually he called after 30 days initially cause he was taking his media cabinet apart to put it together better.
> Then he just shoved it under a bed and did nothing for quite some time.
> I agree that TiVo could step up and deal with their problem better but lets keep the original post facts in mind


No.. I called right around the 30 day mark.. could have been a day or two after but I wasnt dealing directly with Tivo on the unit.. the unit came from Best Buy. When I talked to Tivo, they told me a fix was forthcoming and they "had identified the cause of the issue" and he told me to wait and said is if got unbearable to call back. I didnt call back because I didnt see the point. They never pushed a fix, it isnt a physical problem with the units (Remember analog worked fine, they broke it in an update) so I never bothered calling.

The only reason I ended up calling is because I wanted a refund on the unused service. I mean, yea, I understand that I agreed to pay for a year up front but they agreed to sell me a box that was going to *WORK* and they didnt exactly hold up their end of things either. Who'd buy a car that may or may not start when you go out to get in it? Would you like to have to disconnect your battery every time to get the car to start?

If they would have just partially refunded my service fee, I would have shut up and moved on but they wouldnt even do that so I figured if Im stuck paying for the service, I need a box that does what its supposed to do and a new TivoHD aint that box.


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## Scott Atkinson (Jan 19, 2004)

jmX said:


> They sell a product that they themselves know is broken to a customer...


Exactly.

The bar moves when that happens, IMHO. In order for Tivo to escape responsibility, KFC would have had to have waited a long, long time or abused the unit or made a ridiculous demand.

The agreements you sign with corporations should not be get out of jail free cards for a company, when there is a known bug.

I would feel different if, when KFC bought the unit, he had been given a piece of paper or a speech that said:

"You are buying a unit that we know works reliably with digital signals. An unknown percentage of these units freeze or display gray screens unexpectedly when used with analog channels. This could happen to you if you buy it."

Obviously, companies don't do that. That still doesn't make it right, fair or defensible. If the limitations of the machine aren't clearly explained beforehand, and if you have a reasonable expectation it will work in your situation (ie - you buy a Tivo to watch analog channels and the Tivo is advertised as working with analog channels) then no amount of "this is the warranty, these are the terms, this is the best we can do" should suffice.

s.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Scott Atkinson said:


> .........I would feel different if, when KFC bought the unit, he had been given a piece of paper or a speech that said:
> 
> "You are buying a unit that we know works reliably with digital signals. An unknown percentage of these units freeze or display gray screens unexpectedly when used with analog channels. This could happen to you if you buy it." ........


KFC = KungFuCow? Fried chicken will never be the same for me! 

This reminds me of the TV Ads for medicines. The list of possible problems (frequently including sudden death) is longer than the sales pitch. It does seem that TiVo has been less than fair regarding the analog tuner problem.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

dlfl said:


> KFC = KungFuCow? Fried chicken will never be the same for me!
> 
> This reminds me of the TV Ads for medicines. The list of possible problems (frequently including sudden death) is longer than the sales pitch. It does seem that TiVo has been less than fair regarding the analog tuner problem.


Amen


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## Scott Atkinson (Jan 19, 2004)

dlfl said:


> This reminds me of the TV Ads for medicines. The list of possible problems (frequently including sudden death) is longer than the sales pitch. It does seem that TiVo has been less than fair regarding the analog tuner problem.


I know you're not being serious, but you raise a good point.

There's a difference between the long recitation of possible side effects, and a known, acknowledged problem with a core function.

It'd be silly for Tivo to have to tell people that if you pour water on the unit you could get shocked, or that the shows you record could rot your mind (I keep trying...)

I think that's what some people believe this is - some sort of nebulous, doesn't happen very often, vague thing that kfc shouldn't whine about.

OTOH, I see it as being akin to being given an antibiotic to treat an infection, being told it's highly reliable...except maybe not, in your case.

And it's your problem.

And with that, I officially call an end to my tortured, silly metaphors.

s.


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## gandc40 (Feb 27, 2010)

Yea there are alot of people(tivo employees?) defending the poor customer service that seems to be the norm for tivo lately. 

I had a hdtivo go bad 5 days outside of 1 year. (I have had a flawless series 1 for 10 years). I was told that they would replace it for 80 dollars. I opted for this exchange. They charged my card 422 dollars sent me the new(refurb) tivo and I sent the old one back. Weeks later I receive a refund of 275ish. Total cost 157 dollars for this replacement...not the 80 quoted by 2 customer service reps. I call and speak to Danielle and she says I cant get the replacement for 80 as it was out of warranty and she is quite rude. Luckily I had a claim number with notes on it with the quote. I had to tell her to put her manager on the phone as I was done speaking to her. Still waiting for the remaining credit to show up on my account. I was not offered the phone survey after speaking to her otherwise I would have blasted her for being so rude and arrogant.
Bottom line, tivo's customer service is down the tubes. Perhaps they should offshore support to India. I am sure they would be grateful for a job in this economy. I am still a tivo user but they need to get their act together....there's just too many options out there.


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## jakerome (Nov 29, 2002)

Wow, how do they get away with only offering a 90-day warranty? That's effectively admitting that a lot of their stuff breaks in the first year. I'd put that on the top of my list of reasons NOT to buy TiVo. 

TiVo apparently has so little faith in the quality of their product that they don't even warranty for a year. Stunning.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

jakerome said:


> Wow, how do they get away with only offering a 90-day warranty? That's effectively admitting that a lot of their stuff breaks in the first year.


Probably has a lot to do with their OEM terms on the hard drive, since that's the overwhelming point of those failures that do happen. I don't believe Tivo is a charitable organization.



jakerome said:


> I'd put that on the top of my list of reasons NOT to buy TiVo


As you should, if that's the most important thing to you. Free marketplace at work!

Personally, I've owned many dozens of devices over the years with hard drives. I've learned to replace hard drives.

The issue of this particular thread is not a length of warrantee issue. There is a condition (intrinsic to the Tivo or caused by defects in the service provider signal? The jury is out) which affects a tiny proportion of users in a miniscule proportion of conditions. Also free market: if that degree of risk-aversion is first on your list perhaps the Tivo is not for you.


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## Scott Atkinson (Jan 19, 2004)

Wil said:


> There is a condition (intrinsic to the Tivo or caused by defects in the service provider signal? The jury is out) which affects a tiny proportion of users in a miniscule proportion of conditions. Also free market: if that degree of risk-aversion is first on your list perhaps the Tivo is not for you.


Source? I don't know of any published stats or commentary from Tivo (or anyone else) on the extent of the problem. If you're working off the forums here, again I haven't seen anyone quantify the problem.

As for the free market argument - I'd be with you if the problem were acknowledged up front, transparency being the essence of free markets. Then you pays your money, you makes your choice. But in this case, no such information was provided.

s.

edit - The other free argument is that the existence of forums like this one constitutes 'transparency.' This forum is very valuable, no argument, but it is not the mechanism for full disclosure - ie, it would be silly for Tivo to argue "If you wanted to know whether the S3 had problems, you could just look on Tivo Community."


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Scott Atkinson said:


> Source? I don't know of any published stats or commentary from Tivo (or anyone else) on the extent of the problem. If you're working off the forums here, again I haven't seen anyone quantify the problem.
> 
> As for the free market argument - I'd be with you if the problem were acknowledged up front, transparency being the essence of free markets. Then you pays your money, you makes your choice. But in this case, no such information was provided.
> 
> ...


Agreed!

It's human nature that if one is not affected by defective software (let's call it what it really is instead of trying to sanitize it by using the term 'bug') then one tends to think few others are affected.

Conversely if one is affected by the defective software then one tends to think many are.

The truth is probably somewhere in between the two.

Which doesn't change the fact that the software is defective and in the case of the gray screen issue the defect has been public knowledge for well over a year now and remains unfixed to this day.

It is possible that version f (g?) will fix the defect but while TiVo has commented on a couple of other issues that the update now being distributed addresses to the best of my knowledge gray screens has not been mentioned as one of them.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

Wil said:


> The issue of this particular thread is not a length of warrantee issue. There is a condition (intrinsic to the Tivo or caused by defects in the service provider signal? The jury is out) which affects a tiny proportion of users in a miniscule proportion of conditions. Also free market: if that degree of risk-aversion is first on your list perhaps the Tivo is not for you.


I agree with you, however.........

I didnt just walk into Best Buy and purchase this unit. I CALLED Tivo and talked to one of their salespeople. I told them exactly what I was planning on doing with it (OTA HD, analog everything else) and they recommended the TivoHD. I bought based on their recommendation (And come on, they knew this problem existed when they recommended the unit) and then the problems start and they've done EVERYTHING they can to not have to deal with it. They acknowledge the problem exists, they just don't really feel inclined to do anything about it except tell you to keep waiting for the mythical fix.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

KungFuCow said:


> No.. I called right around the 30 day mark.. could have been a day or two after


 so you called after the 30 day no questions asked period, that was all I was saying.



> The only reason I ended up calling is because I wanted a refund on the unused service. I mean, yea, I understand that I agreed to pay for a year up front but they agreed to sell me a box that was going to *WORK* and they didnt exactly hold up their end of things either.


I agree it was very reasonable to expect TiVo to refund the service charge. Heck I think it would have been reasonable for TiVo to refund the entire service charge on this one.

anyhow I better stop, I am starting to add value to this forum again.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> ..........anyhow I better stop, I am starting to add value to this forum again.


Please revert to your former persona. You're freaking me out! 

And bring back the previous avatar that looked like the real you.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

dlfl said:


> Please revert to your former persona. You're freaking me out!
> 
> And bring back the previous avatar that looked like the real you.


actually the former Avatar looked a lot like me only the avatar was much skinnier.

as for posting useful things again - follow the quoted post in my sig


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> actually the former Avatar looked a lot like me only the avatar was much skinnier.
> 
> as for posting useful things again - follow the quoted post in my sig


OK, [LYING]I'm a forum owner[/LYING]. Now tell me what changes you want.
(Sorry if I missed that in an earlier post.)


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

dlfl said:


> OK, [LYING]I'm a forum owner[/LYING]. Now tell me what changes you want.
> (Sorry if I missed that in an earlier post.)


Id be interested in knowing as well. I actually am a forum owner so Im always interested in hearing suggestions.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

KungFuCow said:


> Id be interested in knowing as well. I actually am a forum owner so Im always interested in hearing suggestions.


Maybe something like this: http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7857753#post7857753?


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

If I were running things I'd ask the TiVo folks if they're interested in participating more under more controlled circumstances. I really don't know how much of their reduced participation is because they've changed from primarily a consumer services company to a business services company, so I wouldn't say that's certainty.

If they were interested I would propose a "TiVo Central" forum. The rules would be:


Everything is strictly relevant to TiVo products and services.
Criticism must be kept constructive, polite, and in relevant threads.
There is one and only one active thread per issue.
A TiVo employee stating, "I'm sorry but we're not able to discuss that." closes any topic.

Of course to be successful such a forum would require participation from TiVo along with diligent moderation and clear consequences for trolls or trouble makers.


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## ascuser (Oct 16, 2007)

nrc said:


> [*]Criticism must be kept constructive, polite, and in relevant threads.


I also think they should make pigs fly, and lower the temperature in hell a few dozen degrees.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

ascuser said:


> I also think they should make pigs fly, and lower the temperature in hell a few dozen degrees.


That's why you give your moderators pig wings and a hell thermostat and instruct them to apply them as necessary.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

Well, the bottom line is that Tivo would have to want to participate and judging by the attitude of everyone from Tivo that Ive dealt with, I just dont see it.

Im going to call them back on Monday and see if anything has changed in regards to my situation.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

KungFuCow said:


> Well, the bottom line is that Tivo would have to want to participate and judging by the attitude of everyone from Tivo that Ive dealt with, I just dont see it.
> 
> Im going to call them back on Monday and see if anything has changed in regards to my situation.


you have been in this forum a long time. Not sure how much you lurked or not but it used to be we would see something from TiVoPony every week. When TiVoToGo was coming out he was dropping hints and we had fun. He even had a webcam of his office running for a while and would leave hints in the viewing area even. It was quite fun and good natured. Did people complain, of course they did. Did they ever dare to think that saying 'marketing puke' was ok. Hell no.
I also had a complaint going with TiVoOps manager over paying for HMO and then it was free. I was respectful of the fact he worked for a business and it was not personal in nature. I stated my reasons for not being happy in a way he could respond to and did. TiVoops manager also used to come on the forum and let us know what new content was coming via free internet stuff and listen to suggestions on others.
We had a CSR come on line here but he was asked to not post here by higher ups - likely concerned he would end up in some shouting match instead of people feeding him useful information - nope instead he would just be beat down by 3 or 4 folks who saw him as the whole of customer support and a way for them to take their anger out.

so as a start - I would ban whoever used the term 'marketing puke' and I would make it a public banning.

second I would make a TiVo employee forum - anyone can post in there so you can have back and forth - but get disrespectful and access to that forum is yanked. TiVo employees do not decide who gets yanked - but a moderator. And the rules are simple - you can get one warning - then gone from the employee forum.

TiVo employees can post in other forums but do so at some more risk - there they get a tough skin because they chose to post 'in the wild' - still anyone that decides to go off topic and badger them - posts get deleted and if they persist - person goes bye bye.

so I still contend it is the fact this forum has devolved into a free for all - and mods are volunteers who do not use the forum as much as others so usually do not have the full story. That takes money to fix or else you take the risk of using more active forum members to mod and sometimes active folks are the last ones who should have any power. 
perhaps the mods could ask active users what the story is when they get complaints, but that also takes time and work - something a volunteer is not as inclined to do for long.

So it seems the answer is indeed - get people moderating the forum who have more than a passing interest in the forums success, get people who have a vested interest. Unfortunately that takes money or incentive of some sort.

This forum used to be a LOT tighter and trolls did not last long - so not feeding them was easy, you knew they were going away quick enough. Not so now and you have people who post the same crud over and over in countless threads on the same subject or else they threadcrap away since the topic is close to what they want to rant about yet again.

So take NRC's ideas and mine and mosh them together into something that keeps reaonable behavior front and center and allows TiVo employees to expect reasonable responses that they can actually create a dialog around versus being grilled on. Do that and I would be happy to be reasonable and post useful things that add value once again.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

Ive only dealt with TivoJerry and my dealings with him were less than satisfying. This is a great forum tho and I do lurk a lot and mainly post in the TV Talk section.


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## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I still contend it is the fact this forum has devolved into a free for all...


Am curious as to your take on why this has happened?



> This forum used to be a LOT tighter and trolls did not last long


So that is _it_? There was tighter moderation in times past?

I have not been here long, so it is difficult for me to assess why there now seems to be more civil unrest than the 'good old' times you recant. I can't help thinking that there must be reasons for it other than the lack of more iron fists among moderators.

I would love to see TiVo folk engaged in sharing things coming down the pipe, or even discussion on legitimate reasons why requested features are not possible. I can't recall seeing anything like that here. TiVo seems almost Apple-like; where there is no word until the rollout. That may be fine for a company with the resources to roll-out the next big thing 3 or 4 times a year, but I just see silence. I can't help wonder if that may be partly to blame for of some of the frustration expressed here these days, especially if there are real usability issues for some customers that seemingly go unaddressed.

I guess my questions are has the TiVo experience tarnished over time? Are there more frustrated and angry customers than the good ol' days, or are they just more vocal and caustic?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

solutionsetc said:


> I guess my questions are has the TiVo experience tarnished over time? Are there more frustrated and angry customers than the good ol' days, or are they just more vocal and caustic?


both. The series 1 was pretty straight forward, ran well and was new enough a product and TiVo new enough a company that it needed a cheap way to figure out what customers wanted - this forum fit the bill perfectly.

Then people started figuring out how to hack the series 1 to do things they wanted - some of it TiVo could not be a part of - the first type of moderation was not allowing theft of service or how to get shows off the TiVo (cause their was also a directTV version) posts to stay on board. Heck there is a whole forum blocked from here - you can still not type in the URL for it. That was tight but admittedly easier. I imagine there was still some knock down drag outs over that happening. And it goes on from there - to a far more complicated product that will have more gaps and glitches and outright functional problems - and ads, lets not forget the ads - so yes as the product evolves , discussion of that product evolves and includes a broader market.

The internet has also devolved with WAY more vocal and caustic people on it. Heck I watched a news report on Today show about people who are bored so they look around facebook for memorial pages for people recently deceased and then troll it with "had it coming" and far worse.  This forum has suffered right along with the internet. I think that reigning in the caustic part and actively keeping trollish behavior off the boards would go a long way.

Thee is indeed much that could be discussed with TiVo representatives about the products, but without a controlled environment to do that in they would be nuts to try.

We have the Blue Moon thread - that went ok and then 'marketing pukes' pops up for no really good reason. The same point happened in the other thread Pony started on the premiere and people having trouble getting the HD UI. TiVoPony came online and was indeed being very helpful and discussing the premiere. Then he gets grilled on the series 3 and mcard - which is a really dead issue as we all know. Video from 4 years ago is used to show he misstated something in his post but it was not put that politely. It served absolutely no useful purpose to that thread - served no useful purpose to people with series 3 - it just simply sidetracked the help and discussion on premiere people were getting.

on a tighter forum - those posts would have been deleted and the thread would be allowed to stay on track. I say deleted becasue it was obvious the poster just wanted to bith at TiVoPony for no reason then to let out some rant.


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## Scott Atkinson (Jan 19, 2004)

Your points are well taken.

I see the same thing you do - a general decay in civility across the net. I know a community forum I post to in my town has grown angrier and more partisan in the last year or so.

s.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I definitely agree with ZeoTiVo. 

I almost wonder if we lost some mods and they just never bothered to replace them. I don't remember mods playing a big role in the forums though either, but then I think we policed ourselves pretty well. Then again TiVo wasn't as known as it is now so the people who were here wanted to be here because of TiVo. 

Maybe I wasn't as active on here back then and that is why I never noticed the mods, but it definitely feels like no one is steering the boat anymore. I wish they would though and maybe we can get this place back on track.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

ZeoTiVo said:


> The series 1 was pretty straight forward, ran well and was new enough a product and TiVo new enough a company that it needed a cheap way to figure out what customers wanted - this forum fit the bill perfectly.


You nailed it. TiVo was different company and this forum was very different in early days (and I have been on this forum from almost day 1, I'm like 20th person to join it). Unfortunately, TiVo is no longer a startup and doesn't care about customers as much and people on this board are no longer a small group of TiVo enthusiasts who are trilled to be on a cutting edge of technology. Majority of people now are regular consumers that expect CE electronics to just work and are really upset when it does not work as anticipated.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

samo said:


> Unfortunately, TiVo is no longer a startup and doesn't care about customers as much at all.


Fixed that for you.


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## Scott Atkinson (Jan 19, 2004)

Not fair.

I'm strongly on your side in this argument, but to say Tivo doesn't care for its customers at all is going too far.

s.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

jmX said:


> Even tho I'm a 10 year long Tivo customer, it's pretty appalling how many people are defending Tivo in this thread. They sell a product that they themselves know is broken to a customer, the customer immediate finds out it is broken, and they suggest he should "wait for a fix". He waits, as suggested, and now the warranty is up. Tivo says he's SOL.


Name one product more sophisticatd than a spoon which does not have at least one design flaw. Then try to name one product which will fully serve the needs to which every person who obtains one might put the device. Expecting any device to work flawlessly under every circumstance is a pipe dream. The Tivo does better than most.



jmX said:


> End of story.


Oh, right, I forgot someone made you the Grand Poobah of all engineering...


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

lrhorer said:


> Name one product more sophisticatd than a spoon which does not have at least one design flaw. Then try to name one product which will fully serve the needs to which every person who obtains one might put the device. Expecting any device to work flawlessly under every circumstance is a pipe dream. The Tivo does better than most.


While that may be true, once again, this is the unit Tivo recommended to me. They knew there was a good chance that it was going to give me trouble but they recommended it to me anyway. I guess its a good thing its not a Toyota and my DVR doesnt suddently accelerate through a wall when the analog tuner goes out. That could get expensive.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

Scott Atkinson said:


> Not fair.
> 
> I'm strongly on your side in this argument, but to say Tivo doesn't care for its customers at all is going too far.
> 
> s.


Well, I just call 'em like I see 'em. Not one person has posted in this thread about a positive experience with Tivo recently and it took a BBB complaint to get ANY kind of response from them for me.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> That takes money to fix or else you take the risk of using more active forum members to mod and sometimes active folks are the last ones who should have any power.


'Ever hear of a guy named Bob Germer, AKA "The Germ"?


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

KungFuCow said:


> Fixed that for you.


When do we get to the "final" part that you promised in your thread subject?

If you really believe that TiVo doesn't care about customers at all then you should have no hope that they're ever going to provide a satisfactory resolution to your issue. So you're wasting your time here. And if you really believe that they don't care then why would you want to stay with them anyway?


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## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

nrc said:


> When do we get to the "final" part that you promised in your thread subject?
> 
> If you really believe that TiVo doesn't care about customers at all then you should have no hope that they're ever going to provide a satisfactory resolution to your issue. So you're wasting your time here. And if you really believe that they don't care then why would you want to stay with them anyway?


Jeez buddy this is _his_ thread. If you have a problem with his issue, why are "you" still here?

Seems to me he has a legitimate complaint; one that has not been addressed to a fair disposition at this point.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

KungFuCow said:


> Well, I just call 'em like I see 'em. Not one person has posted in this thread about a positive experience with Tivo recently and it took a BBB complaint to get ANY kind of response from them for me.


I called TiVo about 18 months ago with a S2 DT that had taken lightening and the USB and ethernet ports no longer worked. I was calling to cancel service on it since it was dead. They sent me a new DT at no charge at all and I simply swapped the TSN number when it arrived. So there is a positive experience since you asked


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

jmX said:


> the customer immediate finds out it is broken, and they suggest he should "wait for a fix". He waits, as suggested, and now the warranty is up. Tivo says he's SOL.
> 
> End of story.
> 
> I don't care what Tivo's policies are or what silly agreements we're all under, the guy has a right to be angry. This is Tivos fault, not his. Tivo cant be so cocky if they expect to keep the few customers they have remaining.


well when you buy a product you agree to them so the agreements are actually not so silly.
KFC is pretty much admitting he called originally after 30 days and TiVo did offer the same deal to fix it as he would have gotten the first time he called. Just keeping the facts straight here


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I called TiVo about 18 months ago with a S2 DT that had taken lightening and the USB and ethernet ports no longer worked. I was calling to cancel service on it since it was dead. They sent me a new DT at no charge at all and I simply swapped the TSN number when it arrived. So there is a positive experience since you asked


I wonder why TIVO doesn't send KungFuCow an S2 at no charge to use for analog cable? That would restore his ability to use TIVO for digital OTA and analog cable. He couuld then use MRV to watch everything on the TIVO HD.

Anyone experiencing this issue should get a free S2.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

ZeoTiVo said:


> well when you buy a product you agree to them so the agreements are actually not so silly.
> KFC is pretty much admitting he called originally after 30 days and TiVo did offer the same deal to fix it as he would have gotten the first time he called. Just keeping the facts straight here


You keep referring to the TiVo 30 days return policy as something that has anything to do with KFC situation. 30 day policy has no significance at all. His hardware is not defective, service is. He prepaid for a year of service and service never worked to his satisfaction. All along he was promised that service would be fixed and it never was and still isn't. He is entitled to the full refund of his service fees. You would agree that if he pre-paid for a year of cleaning service and maid never cleaned a bathroom but kept promising to do it next time for 10 months he would have a legit beef with cleaning company, would you?


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

solutionsetc said:


> Jeez buddy this is _his_ thread. If you have a problem with his issue, why are "you" still here?
> 
> Seems to me he has a legitimate complaint; one that has not been addressed to a fair disposition at this point.


Because I'm giving him advice based on the issue he's complaining about.

It's the same advice that I would give anyone: if you have a legitimate complaint with a company and you don't believe that they've made sufficient effort to resolve the issue to your satisfaction then you should dump that company and be done with them.

It makes no sense to say that you believe that a company doesn't care about their customers _at all_ and keep holding out for a solution that involves continued dealings with that same company.


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## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

nrc said:


> Because I'm giving him advice It's the same advice that I would give anyone:


Remind me never to ask you for advice. If there is a problem with a product or service you spent hundreds on, I doubt anyone would consider "simply eat it and move" to be sound advice.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

solutionsetc said:


> Remind me never to ask you for advice. If there is a problem with a product or service you spent hundreds on, I doubt anyone would consider "simply eat it and move" to be sound advice.


Thank you

Had he bothered to read the whole thread, he would have seen that I had exhausted every option available to me to resolve this and essentially was giving up. After some advice from others, I filed a complaint with the BBB and that finally got someone's attention at Tivo.

They contacted me about a resolution. Im happy they did but Im disappointed what it took to actually get them to open a positive dialog with me.

If they step up and take care of me, that's great. If they don't then so be it but I at least need to see it through and see how it plays out.

The bottom line is I took a huge loss on this whole order. I bought the box for $299.00, I paid for a year of service up front (I forget how much that was but lets say $149 for the sake of arguement) so I mean, Im $450ish deep into this. You're right, who's going to dump $450 in the trash and say "Oh well!" If you have that much money, just send me the $450, Ill send you a TivoHD and STFU and go away.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

KungFuCow said:


> Thank you
> 
> Had he bothered to read the whole thread, he would have seen that I had exhausted every option available to me to resolve this and essentially was giving up.


You didn't initiate a charge back with your credit card company.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

solutionsetc said:


> Remind me never to ask you for advice. If there is a problem with a product or service you spent hundreds on, I doubt anyone would consider "simply eat it and move" to be sound advice.


If TiVo breached their agreement with him then he should bring a claim in small claims court to recover his loss. He can even complain about TiVo at every turn to try to make them pay for it that way.

What makes no sense is to keep fighting for a solution that involves continued dealings with a company that you believe has been unfair and doesn't care about their customers.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

KungFuCow said:


> Had he bothered to read the whole thread, he would have seen that I had exhausted every option available to me to resolve this and essentially was giving up. After some advice from others, I filed a complaint with the BBB and that finally got someone's attention at Tivo.


Nothing that you've said in this thread changes the fact that it makes no sense to fight for a resolution that involves continued dealings with a company that you've said all these things about. Fight for a refund, take them to court, slander them at every opportunity, but as soon as you suggest that more services from the same company would be a satisfactory solution you're either being foolish or you're not being honest about your view of the company.



> If they step up and take care of me, that's great. If they don't then so be it but I at least need to see it through and see how it plays out.


Do you really think that if they "step up and take care of you" that changes whether they're a company worthy of your business given what you've said in this thread?



> The bottom line is I took a huge loss on this whole order. I bought the box for $299.00, I paid for a year of service up front (I forget how much that was but lets say $149 for the sake of arguement) so I mean, Im $450ish deep into this. You're right, who's going to dump $450 in the trash and say "Oh well!" If you have that much money, just send me the $450, Ill send you a TivoHD and STFU and go away.


I'm not saying that you should just eat the loss, I'm saying that it's foolish to propose solutions that involve continued dealings with a company that you believe doesn't care about their customers. Especially in a thread titled, "My Final Dealings With Tivo".

Take them to small claims court and get your money back. Hell, bring a class action suit. Seriously. I'd love to see you be true to the outrage that you keep expressing and actually do something other than try to get more products and services from a company that according to what you've said is really unworthy of your business.

It's almost as though this whole thread isn't really about your "Final Dealings with TiVo" but more about making a grandstand play to get a new Premiere.


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## Scott Atkinson (Jan 19, 2004)

nrc said:


> I'm not saying that you should just eat the loss, I'm saying that it's foolish to propose solutions that involve continued dealings with a company that you believe doesn't care about their customers. Especially in a thread titled, "My Final Dealings With Tivo".


In fairness to KFC, I think he's like a lot of us - big fans of Tivo, but sorely disappointed by the slow motion train wreck that is the analog problem. Those of us with it have been left to fend, more or less.

I have three Tivos subscribed at the moment - an S1, an S2 and the S3, and I've owned several more, including the problematic Humax dvd recorder. I accept that neither Tivo nor its people are perfect, just like the rest of the world. But for some of us, this is a central function - and that it doesn't work reliably under some circumstances, and that we don't have a clear statement from the company (to my knowledge) is just galling.

So he's angry and he wants Tivo to pay attention. While I disagree with 'Tivo doesn't care about its customers' and don't think it's useful, I do think Tivo doesn't care enough about this problem. I don't want my money back, really. I want the company to either say "we've fixed it," or "it's never, ever going to be fixed" and give us options. I suspect KFC feels the same, and is trying hard to get the company to look in this direction.

s.


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## DrewS3 (Sep 19, 2008)

solutionsetc said:


> Am curious as to your take on why this has happened?
> ...
> I guess my questions are has the TiVo experience tarnished over time? Are there more frustrated and angry customers than the good ol' days, or are they just more vocal and caustic?


I'll throw in my 2 cents. I have a Series 1 that I found on the street, replaced the hard drive and started playing with. It worked so well that I bought a lifetime subscription on it and recommended Tivo to everyone I knew. I was impressed that Tivo was open enough to allow tinkering (even unofficial support of the third-party ethernet card!) and thought it was a great company.

18 months or so ago I upgraded my TV to HD and decided to go with a Tivo HD over the cable company DVR. One of the features I looked forward to was Rhapsody support. Rhapsody never worked reliably for me in the several months I tried to get it to work and Tivo was unresponsive to fixing it. During this time they did manage to roll out the Dominos pizza application while ignoring the Rhapsody issues. I also looked into HME/HMO applications to stream music but they didn't work either and it seems like HME/HMO had been abandoned by Tivo as well. Finally my old Series one was not updated to support digital decoders. Tivo certainly didn't have to do this, but their failure to make this trival update to lifetime subscribers comes off as stingy.

I still like my Tivo HD for the DVR functions but I have no faith in Tivo's continued support and would not count on Tivo to add any features or make any bug fixes. I would say that my opinion of the Tivo brand has declined a lot since the Series 1 days.

After I gave up on Tivo for music I got a Logitech Squeezebox, then another. My experience with Slimdevices (Logitech) has been much better. Every problem has been fixed quickly so that all the advertised features work. New features have been continually added. Third party application development is supported. The company is involved in the community, making beta software available and helping developers.


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## Scott Atkinson (Jan 19, 2004)

DrewS3 said:


> I
> After I gave up on Tivo for music I got a Logitech Squeezebox, then another. My experience with Slimdevices (Logitech) has been much better. Every problem has been fixed quickly so that all the advertised features work. New features have been continually added. Third party application development is supported. The company is involved in the community, making beta software available and helping developers.


While I agree with your post, if you spend time on the Squeezebox forums you'll see a fair amount of "Why won't they fix this problem/things were better in the old days." In particular, look in the radio section for some frustrated users.

(I own several Squeezeboxen, btw, and love them as much as I love my Tivos.)

s.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

Scott Atkinson said:


> In fairness to KFC, I think he's like a lot of us - big fans of Tivo, but sorely disappointed by the slow motion train wreck that is the analog problem. Those of us with it have been left to fend, more or less.
> 
> I have three Tivos subscribed at the moment - an S1, an S2 and the S3, and I've owned several more, including the problematic Humax dvd recorder. I accept that neither Tivo nor its people are perfect, just like the rest of the world. But for some of us, this is a central function - and that it doesn't work reliably under some circumstances, and that we don't have a clear statement from the company (to my knowledge) is just galling.
> 
> ...


Quoted For Truth

Im not some Tivo newbie that happened by the forum one day. Ive owned a S1, a DTV Tivo, a couple of S2s and a TivoHD. I also have a Showstopper, have owned a ReplayTV and have a Moxi right now. So yea, Im not a DVR newbie nor am I am Tivo fanboi.

That being said, for years, Tivo was THE DVR to have. I was happy with all of my boxes before the TivoHD. Sure they had quirks but they were reliable where it counts. If I set something to record, you could believe that short of the power going out, when I came home, my program would be waiting for me.

Can't say that about the S3 using analog. I come home and find grey screens and no recordings. All I wanted was for the thing to WORK. Tivo KNOWS this problem exists and as long as its been, come on. They could have fixed it by now if they were going to. Its most likely only effecting a very small portion of the users so those of us that have it are just having to deal.

Its not right that Tivo knows the thing is broken but still thinks I should pay for service that I cant use.

Me: "I just want to use my Tivo for analog recordings."
Tivo: "Oh yea, well, umm.. the Premiere doesnt have the analog issue. Sell your TivoHD and buy a Premiere."
Me: "......."

Seriously? Thats the answer? Sell my TivoHD and buy a Premiere, lock myself into an even longer contract and essentially take a loss on the service Ive paid for up until this point and the loss Im going to take on the box because they cant fix a problem?

How people think Im in the wrong here, I just dont get.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

KungFuCow said:


> Quoted For Truth
> 
> Im not some Tivo newbie that happened by the forum one day. Ive owned a S1, a DTV Tivo, a couple of S2s and a TivoHD. I also have a Showstopper, have owned a ReplayTV and have a Moxi right now. So yea, Im not a DVR newbie nor am I am Tivo fanboi.
> 
> ...


You have company.


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## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

KungFuCow said:


> I ... have owned a ReplayTV That being said, for years, Tivo was THE DVR to have.


Just curious why a ReplayTV owner would say this?

Back then TiVo had no grid guide, no MRV, and _*still*_ doesn't record conflicting shows from one machine to the next. I always felt TiVo was the second class citizen. I'd still be with Replay if they had an HD offering.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

solutionsetc said:


> Just curious&#8230; why a ReplayTV owner would say this?
> 
> Back then TiVo had no grid guide, no MRV, and _*still*_ doesn't record conflicting shows from one machine to the next. I always felt TiVo was the second class citizen. I'd still be with Replay if they had an HD offering.


The Tivo interface, while now showing its age, was still the best thing going. It was intuitive, easy to navigate and it just worked. Granted there was a point and time that Replay was a superior product (Auto commercial skipping FTW) but after getting bought and sold so many times, Replay finally bit the dust I guess when Sonic Blue bought them. Sadly that marked the end of the Empeg as well, which was another "ahead of its time" product.

Moxi has a very nice interface but it takes a lot of button presses to get around. The media streaming, which is a big deal to me, is subpar on the Moxi. as well.

Anyway, to bring things up to the current status, I talked to someone at Tivo's Executive Customer Service today and they still are unable to offer me any kind of upgrade for the Premiere. In the meantime, he suggested I turn Suggestions back on and put the Tivo in standby when Im not using it and "that should help some."

So.. he said he would call me back next week.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

JMO but you shouldn't be asking for an upgrade to the Premier. Tivo might not want to open the flood gates. Rather ask for a full or partial refund of subscription fees and a full or partial refund of the purchase price of your tivo.

Tivo should either provide a method for your unit to reliably record analog channels or provide compensation.

At least one poster is very confused. Tivo gives you 30 days to decide if you like the product. Tivo doesn't get to render the product worthless after 30 days.



KungFuCow said:


> Anyway, to bring things up to the current status, I talked to someone at Tivo's Executive Customer Service today and they still are unable to offer me any kind of upgrade for the Premiere. In the meantime, he suggested I turn Suggestions back on and put the Tivo in standby when Im not using it and "that should help some."
> 
> So.. he said he would call me back next week.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

lew said:


> JMO but you shouldn't be asking for an upgrade to the Premier. Tivo might not want to open the flood gates. Rather ask for a full or partial refund of subscription fees and a full or partial refund of the purchase price of your tivo.
> 
> Tivo should either provide a method for your unit to reliably record analog channels or provide compensation.
> 
> At least one poster is very confused. Tivo gives you 30 days to decide if you like the product. Tivo doesn't get to render the product worthless after 30 days.


Upgrading was a mutual decision. They dont feel like just swapping the unit would be the way to go. They also havent mentioned refunding/extending/doing anything with my service. It was in my BBB complaint but they never addressed it. At this point, until theyre actually ready to do something, Im not going to cross that bridge yet.


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## TroyM (Mar 11, 2003)

KFC - I really hate to hear that this has dragged on for so long. I have 3 TivoHD's in my house and have, unfortunately, experienced a fair share of grey screens. It seems to have gotten much better over the last year or so but that's probably because I record so few analog stations these days. 

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that if push comes to shove with Tivo, you might check out the Uniform Commercial Code. There is an implied warranty of merchantability that supercedes any "warranty" that Tivo provides. An implied warranty of merchantability is a warranty implied by law that goods are reasonably fit for the general purpose for which they are sold. I think it could be reasonably argued that Tivo has failed in this case. 

*I am not a lawyer and do not play one on TV. No legal advice has been given.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

Well, the BBB route seems to have been a dead end. Im not sure if this is what prompted Tivo Executive Customer Service to contact me or not but they didnt respond to the BBB complaint.



> In the absence of any response from the company this complaint despite our two requests to them, we are closing our file on this complaint.
> 
> This unanswered complaint will become part of the information we report to the public on this company for the next three years. Should any government agency request our files on this company, your complaint will also be included.
> 
> ...


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

Spoke with one of the guys at Tivo Executive Customer Service yesterday and we have reached a resolution to my issue . Unfortunately Tivo asked me not to disclose what said resolution was. I can say that Im not particularly enthused about it but it became painfully aware as this went on that what I wanted wasn't going to happen. I still had to spend money, I didnt get back the 5+ months of service I lost from the TivoHD not working correctly... I didnt get an extension on my service.

Since they blew off the BBB, my next course of action was the CA AG's office but at this point, Im going to just drop it.


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## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

KungFuCow said:


> Unfortunately Tivo asked me not to disclose what said resolution was.


Very sad TiVo wants to hide this from other consumers that may be having the same issue (and who may not be willing to put up the fight you did). I am sure the TiVo defenders will declare this is common sense, but it hardly makes one feel good about the company.



> I still had to spend money


This was the same tactic Samsung tried to pull on me when they could not fix an intermittent flickering issue on a $3500 HD TV. They tried twice and then stalled me for a period of weeks before finally telling me they had done all they could and my set was now out of warranty. At that point I was told I could buy a new set at 50% off, or continue servicing my set on my dime, with 50% off on parts. The last person I spoke with told me these were my only options, and would NOT escalate my issue to his supervisor.

At that point I fired off a certified letter to the CEO of Samsung, America; documenting my issue, and asking for either a new TV or the refunding of my purchase price in order to prevent me from otherwise filing suit for 'breach of warranty' under California consumer protection statutes. This resulted in me receiving a phone call within ten days of the postmark to schedule delivery of a new TV.

I believe I offered you this same advice in an earlier post. I think you would have achieved a more satisfactory result had you followed it&#8230; but I am glad to hear that you at least reached some form of resolution (which was most likely a new unit at a heavily discounted price).

It is unfortunate that companies as mainstream as Samsung and TiVo do not feel obligated to do what is necessary to address some warranty issues for all of their customers&#8230; and will only do so for the ones with the knowledge or willingness to press the issue to the full extent of their legal rights. In my case it cost Samsung a new TV and a customer for life, where if they handled it like they should have in the first place, it would have still cost them a new TV (or possibly a third repair attempt), but they would have 'gained' a customer for life.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

KungFuCow said:


> Spoke with one of the guys at Tivo Executive Customer Service yesterday and we have reached a resolution to my issue . Unfortunately Tivo asked me not to disclose what said resolution was. I can say that Im not particularly enthused about it but it became painfully aware as this went on that what I wanted wasn't going to happen. I still had to spend money, I didnt get back the 5+ months of service I lost from the TivoHD not working correctly... I didnt get an extension on my service.
> 
> Since they blew off the BBB, my next course of action was the CA AG's office but at this point, Im going to just drop it.


It may be too late but I would have told tivo they'd need to up the offer in exchange for non-disclosure. That said I wouldn't have continued to pay for service that I wasn't receiving.

Tivo may now tell the BBB you reached an agreement. I'd ask the BBB to leave this as an unresolved complaint.

Sounds like you wound up with a Premiere unit. There really isn't any difference in price between the TivoHD and the Premiere. I would have objected to paying anything other then a shipping charge.

Did you sign a non-disclosure agreement? You might tell tivo you gave it some thought. Tivo didn't give you the courtesy of working with you for months. Tivo didn't have the courtesy to respond to the BBB. You don't see any reason to extend tivo the courtesy of not disclosing the resolution.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

KungFuCow said:


> Spoke with one of the guys at Tivo Executive Customer Service yesterday and we have reached a resolution to my issue . Unfortunately Tivo asked me not to disclose what said resolution was. I can say that Im not particularly enthused about it but it became painfully aware as this went on that what I wanted wasn't going to happen. I still had to spend money, I didnt get back the 5+ months of service I lost from the TivoHD not working correctly... I didnt get an extension on my service.
> 
> Since they blew off the BBB, my next course of action was the CA AG's office but at this point, Im going to just drop it.


So, to help others in similar situations, what do you think got you the attention of the TiVo Executive Costomer Service?

Also, I take it nothing was said to give anyone with the analog tuner problem any hope it would be fixed, correct?


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

lew said:


> It may be too late but I would have told tivo they'd need to up the offer in exchange for non-disclosure. That said I wouldn't have continued to pay for service that I wasn't receiving.
> 
> Tivo may now tell the BBB you reached an agreement. I'd ask the BBB to leave this as an unresolved complaint.
> 
> ...


I didnt sign anything. They asked me not to disclose so I told them I wouldnt. I know WHY they dont want me to disclose and I see it from their side of things. They helped me out some, not huge but some. I think it kind of stinks I have to eat 5 months of service over this and suffered through 3 months of crappy service before that but Tivo didnt seem to really care about that.

Im not closing out anything with the BBB. I have to do it, they cant. They did not offer what I asked for, which while generous, wasnt out in left field. I didnt ask for anyone's first born or anything.

I may still write a letter to Tivo's CEO. I havent gotten real far trying to get past the customer service reps. That seems to be a common things these days as well.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

You accepted the deal. Writing to the president of tivo is something you might have done before you accepted the deal. I wouldn't waste my time. Are you in a letter writing mode? Write to the CA Attorney General.


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## mm3ss690 (Oct 16, 2005)

OP, I've been dealing with this damn bug for well over a year on two Tivo HD's with lifetime. I have to reset the darn things every few days and it really angers me that Tivo doesn't care. If this was a hardware problem I'd understand. But this bug was introduced with a software update and could be fixed if they wanted to spend the time on it. I really doubt I'll buy another Tivo because their disregard for loyal customers.


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## shaown (Jul 1, 2002)

I think its worth writing to the executive team, not to up your offer, that is done. More to give him feedback on things you are happy / unhappy with so they have a chance to do it better in the future.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

mm3ss690 said:


> OP, I've been dealing with this damn bug for well over a year on two Tivo HD's with lifetime. I have to reset the darn things every few days and it really angers me that Tivo doesn't care. If this was a hardware problem I'd understand. But this bug was introduced with a software update and could be fixed if they wanted to spend the time on it. I really doubt I'll buy another Tivo because their disregard for loyal customers.


Well, the best thing I can tell you is to file a BBB complaint like I did. I dont know if thats what got their attention but maybe so. Its a shame they wont fix this and I dont really believe the Premiere doesnt have this problem despite what they say.

I wish you the best of luck. I didnt get real far with Tivo and it was kind of disappointing but its the world we live in these days. The customer is no longer always right and selling beta hardware/software has become the norm.


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## Crrink (Sep 3, 2002)

KungFuCow said:


> Well, the best thing I can tell you is to file a BBB complaint like I did. I dont know if thats what got their attention but maybe so. Its a shame they wont fix this and I dont really believe the Premiere doesnt have this problem despite what they say.
> 
> I wish you the best of luck. I didnt get real far with Tivo and it was kind of disappointing but its the world we live in these days. The customer is no longer always right and selling beta hardware/software has become the norm.


As I said before, the BBB is a waste of time.
mm3ss690, if you want to file a complaint, file it with the CA Attorney General's office and the FTC. If you want to throw the BBB in as well, go ahead, but as KungFuCow's experience confirms, going with the BBB alone will not get the results you're after.
Filing a complaint couldn't be much easier - just go to the respective websites and enter the information in. 
From my experience with other companies the CA AG's office is your best bet for a quick, favorable resolution. 
I use a TiVoHD with no cablecard, but with analog cable and OTA HD. I'm very thankful I don't have the issues that some of you have, but if I did I wouldn't settle for anything less than being made whole (which would likely involve sending the defective TiVoHD back and receiving a refund for the hardware and some percentage of refund for the service I used, and a full refund for the service still left on my contract.)
KFC: I'm glad you've reached some resolution with TiVo. I sincerely hope that all the other people affected by this bug get the satisfaction they deserve.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Crrink said:


> As I said before, the BBB is a waste of time.


That's not true. While the BBB might not have a lot of 'teeth', sometimes it helps cut through the moronic CS Rep layer to someone who can actually help.


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## Jared1987 (Apr 13, 2010)

sorry to hear that.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

I actually had another complaint against another company going as well with the BBB. This was for the Sheraton hotel... they also did not respond to the BBB. Ive filed complaints before with the BBB and at least it opened up a line of communication. Doesnt seem like the BBB has any clout any more.


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## Crrink (Sep 3, 2002)

Adam1115 said:


> That's not true. While the BBB might not have a lot of 'teeth', sometimes it helps cut through the moronic CS Rep layer to someone who can actually help.


:shrug: O.K., maybe it's not a complete waste of time, but believe me, you will get better results faster from the State AG and/or FTC.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

If you OP still has his TiVO HD, he may want to check this post.



TiVoJerry said:


> Now that Im in Field Trials I would like to recruit a few people from this thread to help with testing for grey screens on analog channels. We believe weve made progress on this issue but need additional testers to soak and evaluate the potential fixes.
> 
> To be clear, Im looking for testers who have seen persistent grey screens (or black, depending on your letterbox color setting) on analog channels of their TiVo HD or TiVo HD XL DVR. The program will involve repetitive testing & close evaluation of video quality, with a strong emphasis on details when it comes to reporting issues. Reading through this thread, I know many of you already have the skills and patience for this kind of activity.
> 
> ...


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

I still have the unit but it no longer has service on it.


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