# Sony Tv Causing My Tivo To Freeze



## pashasurf7873 (Sep 22, 2006)

*SONY Tv Causing My Tivo To Freeze* I have a S3 for my sony kdr50xbr and after a week of HD bliss, it kept freezing when i would turn the tv on in the morning, so after 2 days of that i used exclusively component, thinking the problem was with hdmi. the problem persisted, tivo sent a new box and after a week the same problem started to occur. It only happens when i turn the TV on, leading me to beleive the issue is related to the hdcp 'handshake' process.
There was an earlier forum with others with Sony TV's who were reporting this same issue.

Anyone out there have any advice or suggestions. i Called tivo and they insist they are not aware of the problem.


----------



## Bighouse (Sep 3, 2004)

pashasurf7873 said:


> I have a S3 for my sony kdr50xbr and after a week of HD bliss, it kept freezing when i would turn the tv on in the morning, so after 2 days of that i used exclusively component, thinking the problem was with hdmi. the problem persisted, tivo sent a new box and after a week the same problem started to occur. It only happens when i turn the TV on, leading me to beleive the issue is related to the hdcp 'handshake' process.
> There was an earlier forum with others with Sony TV's who were reporting this same issue.
> 
> Anyone out there have any advice or suggestions. i Called tivo and they insist they are not aware of the problem.


This is a dumb question perhaps, but might it have something to do with the way you're turning your TV on? Might it be a conflicting remote control signal of some sort?


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

What makes you think it's the Sony TV? Have you tried hooking it up to another TV to see if the problem goes away? The fact that it remains even when you switched from HDMI to Component makes it seem a little less likely.


----------



## pashasurf7873 (Sep 22, 2006)

The freezing problem happens about every other time i turn the TV on, with remote or manually. the reason i think its my Sony is because it ONLY happens when i turn my TV on and because in another forum there were 3 other posters with the same problem and they all have SONY TV's.
PS When my S3 freezes, it does not respond to either the S3 remote or when I use the buttons on the face of the S3. The only way to recover the S3 is to unplug it.


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

I had that same thing happen a couple of times on another S3. I swapped out the box and it hasn't happened since. I do indeed have a Sony TV but I didn't necessarily make the correlation between the two. I felt it was a bad box or bad cable cards. I still have two S3 boxes connected to the same Sony TV via HDMI and no problems at all. 

Kinda makes me feel like the TV wasn't the problem. At least not in my case. I posted about the problem here on the forum and while others had experienced the problem, nobody had tied the problem to the Sony TV. It might just be statistical coincidence in that Sony probably sells more TV sets than anyone and therefore it might follow that people with that issue would run into other people with that issue who also happen to own Sony TV's. Just a coincidence. It may freeze with any brand of TV. That's why I was asking if you had tried another brand of TV to see if the problem goes away. If it persists then you have a problem not related to the Sony TV. Just something to think about.

If the new box freezes up like that again I'll update my post here. I really have a gut feeling it was due to my box having a jammed card connector and an old style Cable Card. Once he got me all the same type of "newer" cable cards (think they are the "green ones") installed in my new box, the problem seemed to dissappear.


----------



## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

I am using a S3 with my Sony SXRD R60XBR1 hooked up via HDMI without any issues.

UPDATE: Scratch that. I was hit with this issue as well. See post #19 below.


----------



## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

Isn't it Sony TVs that were getting Series 2 video in black and white? Or maybe it was Sony VCRs that were recording in black and white off Series 2 TiVos?


----------



## hookbill (Dec 14, 2001)

gastrof said:


> Isn't it Sony TVs that were getting Series 2 video in black and white? Or maybe it was Sony VCRs that were recording in black and white off Series 2 TiVos?


I have a Sony Wega, no freeze up problems for me.


----------



## talkingtiki (Dec 26, 2006)

Could it be a voltage drop on the powerup of the TV? I would try plugging the tivo or tv in via an extension cord to another outlet on another circuit and try it again. My other thought would be some sort of magnetic interference on the powerup screwing with the tivo. Try moving the tivo a few feet away from the tv and see what happens.


----------



## pashasurf7873 (Sep 22, 2006)

thanks for the replies. i'm more baffled than before. maybe my sony has some bug, cause i had the same problem with 2 series 3's. but my xbox360 and oppo dvd player are not affected by it.
regarding the power supply, i have it running through a Monster reference power center 3500, so that seems unlikely. i will try a new outlet just in case.


SO NO ONE ELSE HAS HAD THIS PROBLEM??


----------



## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

I'd say it's a power problem. I'd suggest getting a cheap ($40) UPS, not surge surpressor, and putting the Tivo on that. This way you'll avoid any drops or spikes in power, and it's a good idea anyway.

The Monster Power Center's just a glorified surge surpressor, and can't deal with poer drops, it just cleans the power.


----------



## pashasurf7873 (Sep 22, 2006)

i'll try that, thanks. i guess there's not too many other sony tv/tivo s3 with this problem. so frustrating.


----------



## T-Shee (Sep 22, 2006)

I would try removing the HDMI connection from the TV (reconnect the S3 to the TV using ONLY the component cables that shipped with the S3). If you still get the freeze-up, you can eliminate the HDMI as the culprit. 

It's very weird. A ground-loop that spikes on startup? 

What else is connected to the TV? You may need to eliminate all other devices, ie remove CD/DVD player, game system, etc. to narrow this down. Do you still have a cable box with a connection to the TV? for example.

I've seen some weird ground-loop problems with HT setups that were traceable back to the cable system.


----------



## skydivewags (Apr 14, 2004)

How do you know it is locking up when you turn the TV on???? Maybe the TiVo is locked up before you turn on the TV. 

Like another poster suggested, hook up another TV to it. I would just get a small TV, and hook it up through another output, and turn it on first, see if it is locked up, then turn on the Sony. 

I find it highly unlikely that the display device is causing anything to happen.


----------



## devildog80 (Aug 26, 2005)

I have a Series 3 and Sony 60" Flat Screen projection. It worked well for a week and now every time I power off, when I power back up, all I have is snow on the screen. The only thing that works is powering off the TiVo and TV and power back up, resetting TiVo. All of my components are on a surge surpressor.

I can't figure it out


----------



## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

devildog80 said:


> I have a Series 3 and Sony 60" Flat Screen projection. It worked well for a week and now every time I power off, when I power back up, all I have is snow on the screen. The only thing that works is powering off the TiVo and TV and power back up, resetting TiVo. All of my components are on a surge surpressor.
> 
> I can't figure it out


Next time it does it... try unplugging the hdmi cable and then plugging it back in. Of course Im assuming you are using HDMI.


----------



## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

devildog80 said:


> I have a Series 3 and Sony 60" Flat Screen projection. It worked well for a week and now every time I power off, when I power back up, all I have is snow on the screen. The only thing that works is powering off the TiVo and TV and power back up, resetting TiVo. All of my components are on a surge surpressor.
> 
> I can't figure it out


That's an HDMI problem with the TV (rarely seen with Sony's). What model TV?


----------



## nhaigh (Jul 16, 2001)

I have the exact same problem with HDMI. For some reason when the TV Powers up it can cause the TiVo to hang. I changed to Component with audio via the TOS Link and the problem went away. I guess that means it cannot be a power issue or a conflicting remote command.

I needed the HDMI for Blu-Ray at 1080p any way and as the TiVo is only 1080i the Component connection is fine.


----------



## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

George Cifranci said:


> I am using a S3 with my Sony SXRD R60XBR1 hooked up via HDMI without any issues.


I spoke too soon. I was hit with this issue the other day. There is another thread on this issue here (started on 11-30-2006) where I posted about it...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=329343&page=1&pp=30

Check out Warlord46's post here where he mentions a workaround...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4684276&&#post4684276

These threads should probably be merged.


----------



## pashasurf7873 (Sep 22, 2006)

sorry to hear that, I've been in contact with warlord, unfortunately his workaround doesn't seem to work for me. We need to somehow make Tivo aware of this frustrating issue, when i call they say they haven't heard of it (right!).
i'll keep trying different setups and report back. I have noticed it happens less often if I use just component, but not a total fix.
Aloha


----------



## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

pashasurf7873 said:


> sorry to hear that, I've been in contact with warlord, unfortunately his workaround doesn't seem to work for me. We need to somehow make Tivo aware of this frustrating issue, when i call they say they haven't heard of it (right!).
> i'll keep trying different setups and report back. I have noticed it happens less often if I use just component, but not a total fix.
> Aloha


Email them and give them the links to these 2 threads. I will do the same.


----------



## DeathRider (Dec 30, 2006)

After reading thst thread, would it be possible to just disconnected the HDMI cable from the TV so there is no connection between the TiVo and TV while thw TV is off?

I would think it easier if it works, still would be a PitA...


----------



## pashasurf7873 (Sep 22, 2006)

so far what seems to work with the least problems is to use only component cables, turn the tivo off after the TV turns off, then the next time i turn the tv back on, i wait till tv is on and THEN i power on my Tivo. 2 days now with no freeze up. Crossing my fingers every time.
Aloha


----------



## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

pashasurf7873 said:


> so far what seems to work with the least problems is to use only component cables, turn the tivo off after the TV turns off, then the next time i turn the tv back on, i wait till tv is on and THEN i power on my Tivo. 2 days now with no freeze up. Crossing my fingers every time.
> Aloha


Why are you turning the Tivo off? Do you really mean OFF or do you mean STANDBY. You really dont even need to take it to standby.

Are you saying that even with a component connection (no HDMI cable connected) your tivo locks up when you power on the TV? If so.. it sounds like you have a power problem.


----------



## skydivewags (Apr 14, 2004)

Again, I ask, how do you know it is locking up when you turn your TV on?????

Perhaps it locked up by itself while your TV was off.

What kind of screen are you seeing?????? ( where is it locked up? )

If you have another small TV, hook it up through another output, and turn it on first to see the status of the TiVo before turning on your Sony.

As an electronics technician, I am telling you, you need to start doing some troubleshooting. 

I highly doubt that your TV ( a simple display device ) is causing any trouble with your TiVo. If the TV is sending any bad signal through the component cable, that means you have a defunct TV, and you need to take it back.

I would put money down that turning your TiVo off, is simply preventing it from locking up while your TV is off, for the simple fact that the TiVo is OFF!!! It sounds like you need a new TiVo.


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

skydivewags said:


> Again, I ask, how do you know it is locking up when you turn your TV on?????
> 
> Perhaps it locked up by itself while your TV was off.
> 
> ...


That's what I've been saying all along. I simply don't see how it's possible. MAYBE the HDMI "might" be the culprit since there is at least SOME type of communication going (the "handshake") but beyond that unless that TV is sending something BACKWARDS through the component cables I don't see how this could be possible.

I also had this same problem and it was not related to my Sony TV at all. I swapped my box and got new cards and one of the two fixed it. Not sure why nobody has taken the time to plug the S3 into a different TV... I really think people are barking up the wrong tree.


----------



## pashasurf7873 (Sep 22, 2006)

when i said off, i meant standby, and the reason i know its when i turn the tv on is because i have connected a 13" tv to my composite out to test it. works fine, as soon as i turn my sony tv on (connected by component and/or hdmi) the screen on the small tv goes black, somtimes accompanied by a screeching static noise, on top of that the tivo and the clock are frozen on the exact time i tuned the tv on, and will stay frozen that way until i unplug the unit.
and yes it does it with comonent also. there are other threads, including this one with others experiencing the same problem.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=329343&page=1&pp=30

thanks for the feedback


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

pashasurf7873 said:


> when i said off, i meant standby, and the reason i know its when i turn the tv on is because i have connected a 13" tv to my composite out to test it. works fine, as soon as i turn my sony tv on (connected by component and/or hdmi) the screen on the small tv goes black, somtimes accompanied by a screeching static noise, on top of that the tivo and the clock are frozen on the exact time i tuned the tv on, and will stay frozen that way until i unplug the unit.
> and yes it does it with comonent also. there are other threads, including this one with others experiencing the same problem.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=329343&page=1&pp=30
> ...


It's awfully weird to me that you are NOW saying you plugged in another TV. You were asked several times if you did this over the last four days or so and posted several times without any mention of it. Temporary amnesia?


----------



## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

pashasurf7873 said:


> sorry to hear that, I've been in contact with warlord, unfortunately his workaround doesn't seem to work for me. We need to somehow make Tivo aware of this frustrating issue, when i call they say they haven't heard of it (right!).
> i'll keep trying different setups and report back. I have noticed it happens less often if I use just component, but not a total fix.
> Aloha


Your TV is the 50" Sony SXRD correct? KDS-R50XBR1 ? When your TiVo freezes is the screen completely green?

That is what I saw on my 60" Sony SXRD KDS-R60XBR1 once so far.

I have mine hooked up to my TV via one of the 2 HDMI ports. One time I came home and turned on the TV (the TiVo at that point is on all the time and I don't use standby) and when the screen came on it was a solid green. After I pulled the power cord from the box and plugged it in and it booted up ok, I looked at the shows it had recorded and it had successfully recorded a show 2 hours prior to me turning on the TV. So it died sometime between then and me turning the TV on.

As for what actually caused it to lockup is unknown at this point. It only happened that one time. I had since used Warlords advice and have been putting the TiVo in standby mode when I am done watching the TV for the evening and turn it off.


----------



## MrHat (Mar 5, 2005)

maybe the tivo is defective. seems to be the case with mine. i have a sony tv. i dont think thats the problem...neither did tivo tech support


----------



## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

MrHat said:


> maybe the tivo is defective. seems to be the case with mine. i have a sony tv. i dont think thats the problem...neither did tivo tech support


Well obviously it is an issue with the TiVo since it is crashing. What triggers it to lock up might only happen with certain models of TV's which can make this tough to troubleshoot.

What model of Sony TV do you have?

AbMagFab's earlier post about power made me think that is also a possibility (at least in my situation). I have a APC UPS Back-UPS 500 that probably can't handle all the equipment I have plugged into it. Every now and then an alarm goes off when I turn on my TV and AV Receiver at the same time. My TiVo was also plugged into that UPS. Maybe the one time my TiVo S3 locked up there was enough drop in power as I turned on the TV and Receiver. That is a possibility I am looking into and in fact have moved the TiVo to its own UPS (I had another small one I wasn't using). We will see what happens.


----------



## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

MrHat said:


> maybe the tivo is defective. seems to be the case with mine. i have a sony tv. i dont think thats the problem...neither did tivo tech support


I suspect the Tivo power supply. One poster suggested (but aparrently nobody has tried yet) plugging in the TV or the Tivo into an extension cord and plug the extension cord into an outlet in another room on another circuit. Or plug the Tivo into a UPS.


----------



## skydivewags (Apr 14, 2004)

SCSIRAID said:


> One poster suggested (but aparrently nobody has tried yet) plugging in the TV or the Tivo into an extension cord and plug the extension cord into an outlet in another room on another circuit. Or plug the Tivo into a UPS.


This should be the next step in the troubleshooting. Although as most will know, if it's a big power sag that is causing the problem, the whole house is essentially on the same circuit. For example your fridge starts, the lights in the whole house will dim.

Also, have you tried to turn the TV on without using the remote? I doubt this is the problem.

And for the next step, if you say that this is happening no matter how you have the TV hooked up to the TiVo, (component, or HDMI), remove all connections between the TV and TiVo then turn on the Sony, and see what the little 13" TV shows you. If it locks up, it must be a power issue.

We need to eliminate things to find the real reason this is happening, and it sounds like you have this problem more consistent than anyone else. It's the people that don't have it happen very often that will have more difficulty troubleshooting the problem.


----------



## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

Yesterday I plugged my S3 into its own UPS. Last night I put my S3 into Standby mode and turned off the TV (Sony SXRD (R60XBR1) HDTV. 

Something weird happened today when I turned on my that I have my TiVo S3 connected via HDMI to. I turned on the TV and then pressed the TIVO button on the remote to wake up my S3 from standby. The screen I saw on my TV was the Welcome TiVo is powering up screen! It went through the usual boot up process. So what the heck happened there?


----------



## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

George Cifranci said:


> Yesterday I plugged my S3 into its own UPS. Last night I put my S3 into Standby mode and turned off the TV (Sony SXRD (R60XBR1) HDTV.
> 
> Something weird happened today when I turned on my that I have my TiVo S3 connected via HDMI to. I turned on the TV and then pressed the TIVO button on the remote to wake up my S3 from standby. The screen I saw on my TV was the Welcome TiVo is powering up screen! It went through the usual boot up process. So what the heck happened there?


Try not putting the Tivo into standby and do the same thing. Standby is useless.


----------



## lpinnell (Nov 20, 2006)

I have a Sony KDS60XBR1 connected to an S3 using HDMI. The S3 worked for about two weeks, and then started crashing to the green screen, similar to how others here have described. After about four weeks of this, Tivo swapped out the first box, and the second one worked for a week before starting its weekly crash routine. Then my second S3 downloaded the 8.0.1c software revision just before Christmas, crashed one more time probably because it was trying to intentionally reboot to the new software revision. I went through the S3 unplug/replug ritual one last time. Three weeks later, it has been working fine ever since.

When I had to unplug the S3, I always had to call the cable company to re-initialize the Cable Cards, and wait 20 to 30 minutes for the cable cards to become fully initialized.

I am on Cablevision of Long Island.

Lee


----------



## pashasurf7873 (Sep 22, 2006)

well, sorry to hear i'm not the only one with this problem, and as in the other thread it seems to involve only Sony (sxrd) TV's. mine went two whole days without freezing (using component only) and it just froze up when i got home today. i haven't tried a ups yet. was thinking about unplugging the component cables before i turn on my tv for a few days to see if that helps. i'll report back.
thanks for all the feedback.


----------



## pashasurf7873 (Sep 22, 2006)

p.s. i have the 8.01C software version and my screen freezes up black not green.
i sure hope we can get to the bottom of this.
Aloha


----------



## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

SCSIRAID said:


> Try not putting the Tivo into standby and do the same thing. Standby is useless.


I had put it in standby to see if that helped (that is what Warlord suggested). Because when I came home the other day and turned on my Sony SXRD HDTV the screen was completely green and the TiVo did not respond to any commands from the remote. The TiVo had not been in standby that time.


----------



## lpinnell (Nov 20, 2006)

p.s.... I, too, added a UPS to my Tivo. Since that involved unplugging the Tivo, once I plugged the Tivo into the UPS, I had to call Cablevision to re-initialize the cable cards...

In the interest of potentially contributing to the solution to the Sony crash mystery, I also have a 3 year old Sony 5 DVD changer connected via component cable to my 'XBR1, and a HK DPR-2005 HT receiver connected to everything via TOS or coax digital audio cables. I ordered my 'XBR1 before it even hit the market, around Oct 05, I believe, so it is likely an 'early rev' model, be that good or bad, relative to the Sony/Tivo crash mystery.

HTH,
Lee


----------



## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

lpinnell said:


> p.s.... I, too, added a UPS to my Tivo. Since that involved unplugging the Tivo, once I plugged the Tivo into the UPS, I had to call Cablevision to re-initialize the cable cards...
> 
> In the interest of potentially contributing to the solution to the Sony crash mystery, I also have a 3 year old Sony 5 DVD changer connected via component cable to my 'XBR1, and a HK DPR-2005 HT receiver connected to everything via TOS or coax digital audio cables. I ordered my 'XBR1 before it even hit the market, around Oct 05, I believe, so it is likely an 'early rev' model, be that good or bad, relative to the Sony/Tivo crash mystery.
> 
> ...


My R60XBR1 is a Sept 2005 build.

That is interesting that you need to call Cablevision after you unplugged your TiVo to reinitialize the cards. My Time Warner CableCards come back on their own.


----------



## pashasurf7873 (Sep 22, 2006)

My sony is a 2006 model also. BTW, so far I have turned my TV on 5 times with the component cables unplugged from the tivo with no freeze ups yet. its not a permanent solution but seems to indicate (contrary to many posters claims) that the Sony is somehow sending some type of toxic signal to the Tivo at start up.
Aloha


----------



## jhand_us (Dec 28, 2006)

I have a Sony 60in DLP with a Tivo S3 hooked to it... I hooked up the HDMI connection to input 6 and the component cables to input 5... then jump aournd each trying to focus on the same area of the HD broadcast to see differences.... the component connections look better (to me). I'm not an HDMI expert, but are there general issues with that technology? and why would component be better all around for quality and no freeze ups?


----------



## skydivewags (Apr 14, 2004)

pashasurf7873 said:


> My sony is a 2006 model also. BTW, so far I have turned my TV on 5 times with the component cables unplugged from the tivo with no freeze ups yet. its not a permanent solution but seems to indicate (contrary to many posters claims) that the Sony is somehow sending some type of toxic signal to the Tivo at start up.
> Aloha


Are you then hooking the component cables up once the Sony is on? And it's not freezing up?

If this is the fix for the problem, then your Sony is doing bad things, and needs to go back where it came from.


----------



## pashasurf7873 (Sep 22, 2006)

yes, after the TV is on, I plug the component cables back in and its fine. All other HD components(xbox360,oppo dvd and scientific atlanta 8300hd) work flawlessly, just the tivo trips out and there are others out there with the same problem. Anyone know if a component or hdmi switcher between the TV and tivo could maybe help?
thanks again.
Aloha


----------



## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

FYI... My S3 hasn't locked up in the past 4 days when I turned on my Sony SXRD (R60XBR1) (connected via HDMI) since I moved it to its own UPS. Not that it rules out the Sony TV as the S3 didn't consistently lock up when I turned on the TV (and Yamaha RX-V2600 Receiver) previously.


----------



## lpinnell (Nov 20, 2006)

George Cifranci said:


> FYI... My S3 hasn't locked up in the past 4 days when I turned on my Sony SXRD (R60XBR1) (connected via HDMI) since I moved it to its own UPS. Not that it rules out the Sony TV as the S3 didn't consistently lock up when I turned on the TV (and Yamaha RX-V2600 Receiver) previously.


 Since I connected my S3 to a UPS, the S3 has been running for over three weeks without a problem. Note that right around the time I got the UPS, my S3 updated to 8.0.1c. So, I am not sure which event (connecting to a UPS or rev c update) had a bigger impact on the S3 becoming more reliable, but my vote is the UPS. The UPS is an APC model BE550R and the S3 is the only thing connected to it. My R60XBR1 is connected to a regular surge protector.

Lee


----------



## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

George Cifranci said:


> FYI... My S3 hasn't locked up in the past 4 days when I turned on my Sony SXRD (R60XBR1) (connected via HDMI) since I moved it to its own UPS. Not that it rules out the Sony TV as the S3 didn't consistently lock up when I turned on the TV (and Yamaha RX-V2600 Receiver) previously.


That sounds like a very plausible solution. Those 3 components themselves are already about 1000 VA, which can certainly stress a UPS. I hope it keeps working!


----------



## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

jhand_us said:


> I have a Sony 60in DLP with a Tivo S3 hooked to it... I hooked up the HDMI connection to input 6 and the component cables to input 5... then jump aournd each trying to focus on the same area of the HD broadcast to see differences.... the component connections look better (to me). I'm not an HDMI expert, but are there general issues with that technology? and why would component be better all around for quality and no freeze ups?


You lose a lot of credibility when you say you have a Sony DLP. Sony has never made a DLP set.

HDMI looks better on a properly calibrated set. No question about it. You might not care, or even be able to tell, but it at worst will look the same to you. Only way Component will look better (versus the same) is if you have your set calibration way off on the two inputs.

And as I said early on in this thread, it's power related, and it looks like that sovled the problem.


----------



## Warlord46 (Dec 2, 2006)

devildog80 said:


> I have a Series 3 and Sony 60" Flat Screen projection. It worked well for a week and now every time I power off, when I power back up, all I have is snow on the screen. The only thing that works is powering off the TiVo and TV and power back up, resetting TiVo. All of my components are on a surge surpressor.
> 
> I can't figure it out


I've had two S3s connected to my Sony KDS-R60XBR1 rear projection 60". The first failed after a week, with either a blank screen or a green screen with squealing sounds. Tivo took it back, sent me another one. No problem for a week or two, then same thing. Tivo would not take it back, told me to change plugs and get new cable cards. Both Tivo and Sony were plugged into a big UPS. I unplugged the Tivo and put it into its own wall socket. No help. I have another S3 connected to an LG32LC2D that has been problem-free. I swapped its good cable cards out with my problem S3. The S3 connected to the LG remained problem free, even with suspect cable cards. The problem S3 connected to the Sony was not helped by the tested and proven cable cards from the other S3. So Tivo's trouble-shooting suggestions were not the problem. The problem is with the S3 box. I think it's been damaged.

I suspect my Sony is doing something to the S3, actually ruining it because they work OK for a week or two, but I don't know what. Leaving the Tivo on overnight does not help - when turning the TV on, I see a green or blank screen, with the Tivo frozen. Leaving both the TV and Tivo off does not help, in fact that's even worse. Turning on the TV first, then the Tivo, is a guaranteed green screen, forcing you to pull the plug on the Tivo and have it restart. Or putting the Tivo into standby first as you would normally since you need the TV to see where you are going on the Tivo menu, then turning off the TV - same result. I don't know why it can't survive the night with the TV off when I just leave it running, or why it always gives me a green or blank screen when turning it on and off like I usually do.

So here's what I do, and it works for me: I hit the Tivo button to wake up the Tivo first, then turn on the TV so that the Tivo is already on when the TV comes on. That works. Then, when shutting down, I highlight "standby", then turn off the TV, then press "select" to put the Tivo in standby. If I deviate from this procedure, I get a green or blank screen right away almost every day. If I stick to it, I get a green or blank screen once every couple of weeks or more. I've thought of sending it back to Tivo now that I've proved I've got a defective S3, but I don't see the point in ruining another one in a week or two, and going back to the same old procedure again. I'm going to wait for the powers that be figure out what the problem is, and offer a fix. If my procedure begins to fail and my Tivo does not work at all again, though, I will ask for another one.


----------



## wardial (Jan 13, 2007)

Hi all-

First post here, but believe I have some interesting insight.

I still haven't pulled the trigger on purchasing an S3 yet, HOWEVER, I do have a Sony R60XBR1.

I have it plugged into a Comcast Motorolla DCT3412I DVR via HDMI.

About 80% of the time when I turn on the TV (leave the DVR on all the time) I get the solid green screen. The only thing that fixes it is turning the Cable Box/DVR off and on.

I think we can safely assume this issue in not Tivo related, and is something to do with Sony's implementation of HDMI, or a TV configuration issue.

my 2c.


----------



## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

Please folks...

I've had a 60XBR1 since the day they came out. Never a single issue with the S3 (also since the day it came out), or the HR10-250 (also since the day it came out).

Two distinct issues:
1) The Moto box doesn't do well with HDMI and resynching.
2) The S3 issues above are almost certainly power related, as has already been confirmed by at least the OP.


----------



## jhand_us (Dec 28, 2006)

AbMagFab said:


> You lose a lot of credibility when you say you have a Sony DLP. Sony has never made a DLP set.
> 
> HDMI looks better on a properly calibrated set. No question about it. You might not care, or even be able to tell, but it at worst will look the same to you. Only way Component will look better (versus the same) is if you have your set calibration way off on the two inputs.
> 
> And as I said early on in this thread, it's power related, and it looks like that sovled the problem.


AdMagFab, I've never had credibility - trust me. I'm just a dumb guy that owns a TV. Pardon my Sony ignorance. Thanks for the advise, I think both inputs are calibrated the same however (nerer been touched). It's probably just me thinking HDMI has issues.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

AbMagFab said:


> Please folks...
> The S3 issues above are almost certainly power related, as has already been confirmed by at least the OP.


I'm not convinced it's a power issue. If it was then any time a fridge or other high drain device kicked on the S3 would die. Also disconnecting the component/hdmi cable from the TV wouldn't help if it were a power issue.

It could be a feedback issue, with a surge going out over the component/HDMI cables, but that would indicate the TV was faulty. You could try getting a coax surge protector and make sure the cable wire goes through that before connecting to the TiVo. That should ground the TiVo (though I don't know if this would help).
Since everyone who has had this problem reported that everything works for a week before problems start happening, I'm guessing that by the time symptoms appear the S3 has probably already been physically damaged.

BTW I've heard that Sony doesn't have very good quality control when it comes manufacturing defects in their TVs (including the Bravia line).


----------



## wardial (Jan 13, 2007)

AbMagFab said:


> Please folks...
> 
> I've had a 60XBR1 since the day they came out. Never a single issue with the S3 (also since the day it came out), or the HR10-250 (also since the day it came out).
> 
> ...


I'm also not convinced this is a power related issue. For instance...

If my Sony TV is turned on... with a different source connected... such as a DVD player connected via componant... and I switch back to the DVR source... which is already turned on.... green screen.

This is with the DVR and TV already working and "sunk"...switch to DVD input...back to DVR input... green.


----------



## skydivewags (Apr 14, 2004)

wardial said:


> This is with the DVR and TV already working and "sunk"...switch to DVD input...back to DVR input... green.


Just changing inputs locks up your TiVo????? Take back the Sony.


----------



## nhaigh (Jul 16, 2001)

AbMagFab said:


> Please folks...
> 
> I've had a 60XBR1 since the day they came out. Never a single issue with the S3 (also since the day it came out), or the HR10-250 (also since the day it came out).
> 
> ...


I dispute the power argument. I had the same problem and the only change I have made is to change from HDMI to Component and I haven't had a single TiVo hand since.

I support the theroy that a signal from the Sony on the HDMI cable is causing the TiVo to hang. If I go and unplug the HDMI cable from my PS3 and plug it into the TiVo and power up my TV the TiVo hangs again (25% of the time).

As the TiVo only goes to 1080i I need the HDMI for the PS3 1080p output anyway.


----------



## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

Sony is the #1 HDTV manufacturer, so it serves to reason that most of the S3 owners are also Sony owners (by laws of averages).

This is not a S3/Sony problem. At best it's an individual S3 or, more likely, individual Sony problem, or, most likely, environmental to the very small number of people that are experiencing it.

Good diagnostics starts with the obvious - what's the pattern? If there is none, it's situational, and in these cases, most likely environmental (power, interference, signal, cables, etc.).


----------



## pashasurf7873 (Sep 22, 2006)

well, i can also confirm it's not a power issue.hooked up an apc ups to the s3 yesterday and its locked up on me twice now when i power on sony tv.
only way i've been able to consistantly avoid the lock up is to unplug the component cables when turning tv on.
Aloha


----------



## skydivewags (Apr 14, 2004)

pashasurf7873 said:


> well, i can also confirm it's not a power issue.hooked up an apc ups to the s3 yesterday and its locked up on me twice now when i power on sony tv.
> only way i've been able to consistantly avoid the lock up is to unplug the component cables when turning tv on.
> Aloha


Do you have a multimeter? Check various combinations of the component cables when turning it on. This would be an easy check, and you can check all combinations with three checks. Actually I would check one to the other, then check each one to it's shielding. 6 checks.

Their shouldn't be any thing more then maybe 5volts. If you have something much higher, I would get the Sony looked at. It could be a quick spike that may not show up on some meters.


----------



## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

Well I have my S3 on its own UPS and I got home tonight and turned on the TV and got the "green screen" frozen TiVo again. I suspect it must be seeing something on the HDMI cable that locks it up on occation. The frustrating thing is that it is not consistent. Now my TiVo is stuck in a reboot loop (it reboots comes up for a few minutes then reboots itself). This is really getting annoying.


----------



## pashasurf7873 (Sep 22, 2006)

George Cifranci said:


> Well I have my S3 on its own UPS and I got home tonight and turned on the TV and got the "green screen" frozen TiVo again. I suspect it must be seeing something on the HDMI cable that locks it up on occation. The frustrating thing is that it is not consistent. Now my TiVo is stuck in a reboot loop (it reboots comes up for a few minutes then reboots itself). This is really getting annoying.


Yikes thats no good. I agree the most aggrivating thing about this issue is the randomness of it. Everytime I turn my TV on I cross my fingers and just hope. Ican only imagine that unplugging/plugging the unit in everyother day must not be good for the hard drive.

I will try to measure the components, after i find a meter.
Aloha


----------



## sjxmang (Jul 19, 2005)

I've had the problems with the S3 and my SONY RP LCD. SEE http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=318447 (originally thought it was Ethernet related per see since it only occured when PHY Enet connection was used)

So I did find out what is causing the problem. Turns out that my old STB from comcast had a "floating ground" that showed itself when powering up the Sony. I did test with and without HDMI via 2 S3's with the same repeatable issue. What's bizarre is if I use the USB Ethernet, the problem never appears...it only happens when the phy Ethernet port is used.. If I removed the old comcast STB (goes to S2) (ie take off the splitter), the problem goes away....reconnect..BAM.. I suspect the incoming CATV connections into the cable card slots are not grounded / shielded enough to prevent this. I did connect the cable from Comcast w/o splitter into the S3 and HDMI/Component to the Sony with no problems at all...

Again, USB Ethernet instead of PHY Enet does not show symptoms.. I guess that is what we get for being early adopters.. Tivo support after the 2nd box was useless...

sjc

PS I have been freeze free since November!!!


----------



## pashasurf7873 (Sep 22, 2006)

this sounds very promising, sorry to sound ignorant but is PHY Enet the same as ethernet cable/port? so you're saying that using wireless usb ethernet connection is what solved it?
thanks.
Aloha


----------



## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

Pashasurf> Yes, he is referring to the actual Ethernet port on the S3. I am also using that port. The problem for me is that this doesn't happen consistently. If it does for you, unplug the ethernet cable for a few days (or at least have it unplugged when your turn on your TV) to see if it fixes it. A friend of mine with the exact same TV (Sony SXRD R60XBR1) who also has a Series 3 but uses the TiVO Wireless adapter hasn't had his S3 freeze yet.

I will also be sure my Ethernet cable is unplugged when I turn on my TV (I might even get the TiVo Wireless adapter).

Although it will be a bummer if this is true, it is far better than having something wrong with my TV. At least there is a workaround.

Is there a way to add a ground to the Series 3? Why wouldn't they have one in the first place?


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

George Cifranci said:


> Pashasurf> Is there a way to add a ground to the Series 3? Why wouldn't they have one in the first place?


The S3 doesn't need a ground because the case isn't made of metal so there isn't a shock hazard. Also the S3 should already be grounded through either it's connection to the TV (if there is any other grounded device hooked up to the TV) or through the coax cable connection for cable.

You can forceably ground the S3 by running the cable (or antenna) coax cable through a grounded coax surge protector.


----------



## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

morac said:


> The S3 doesn't need a ground because the case isn't made of metal so there isn't a shock hazard. Also the S3 should already be grounded through either it's connection to the TV (if there is any other grounded device hooked up to the TV) or through the coax cable connection for cable.
> 
> You can forceably ground the S3 by running the cable (or antenna) coax cable through a grounded coax surge protector.


Well in my case NONE of my components have a 3 prong plug (with a ground) in them. This includes the HDTV, Receiver, TiVo S3, XBOX 360 and Oppo DVD Player. Isn't that a problem?

My 2 UPS's I use are grounded, but since none of the devices has a electrical plug with a ground that probably doesn't help any.


----------



## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

sjxmang said:


> I've had the problems with the S3 and my SONY RP LCD. SEE http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=318447 (originally thought it was Ethernet related per see since it only occured when PHY Enet connection was used)
> 
> So I did find out what is causing the problem. Turns out that my old STB from comcast had a "floating ground" that showed itself when powering up the Sony. I did test with and without HDMI via 2 S3's with the same repeatable issue. What's bizarre is if I use the USB Ethernet, the problem never appears...it only happens when the phy Ethernet port is used.. If I removed the old comcast STB (goes to S2) (ie take off the splitter), the problem goes away....reconnect..BAM.. I suspect the incoming CATV connections into the cable card slots are not grounded / shielded enough to prevent this. I did connect the cable from Comcast w/o splitter into the S3 and HDMI/Component to the Sony with no problems at all...
> 
> ...


Do you think buying a surge suppressor that has coaxial and Ethernet connections would fix this as well? Would that ground things properly?

Maybe something like this?

http://www.lashen.com/vendors/tripplite/suppressors/detail/network_rj45.asp


----------



## sjxmang (Jul 19, 2005)

George Cifranci said:


> Do you think buying a surge suppressor that has coaxial and Ethernet connections would fix this as well? Would that ground things properly?
> 
> Maybe something like this?
> 
> http://www.lashen.com/vendors/tripplite/suppressors/detail/network_rj45.asp


I thought the same thing, and tried a APC surge suppressor with Cable connections. No luck, still had the same issues.

On the PHY question above. PHY as in physical ethernet, ie using the built in ethernet port on the S3. Using the USB port, you can use the wireless type or a usb wired ethernet dongle as well ( I am using a Linksys USB to Enet connector, just like I do on the S2)..

sjc


----------



## pashasurf7873 (Sep 22, 2006)

sjxmang said:


> I thought the same thing, and tried a APC surge suppressor with Cable connections. No luck, still had the same issues.
> 
> On the PHY question above. PHY as in physical ethernet, ie using the built in ethernet port on the S3. Using the USB port, you can use the wireless type or a usb wired ethernet dongle as well ( I am using a Linksys USB to Enet connector, just like I do on the S2)..
> 
> sjc


thanks again sjxmang. i unplugged my ethernet cable yesterday and have had 4 power ups with no freeze! ordered a usb to ethernet adapter today.
I would be so stoked if this was finally THE fix.
Aloha!


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

pashasurf7873 said:


> thanks again sjxmang. i unplugged my ethernet cable yesterday and have had 4 power ups with no freeze! ordered a usb to ethernet adapter today.
> I would be so stoked if this was finally THE fix.
> Aloha!


If that is the fix, that definitely sounds like a software glitch with the S3 since the voltage going across the Ethernet cable is very small and should have absolutely nothing to do with powering on the TV.

The only way this could be a hardware problem is if they connected the component/hdmi port somehow to the ethernet port but I have no idea why they would do this as there is no ground in an ethernet cable. If this is what they did it is definitely a manufacturing defect.

I did find a Ethernet Surge Protector. I'm not sure if it would help or not.


----------



## sjxmang (Jul 19, 2005)

morac said:


> If that is the fix, that definitely sounds like a software glitch with the S3 since the voltage going across the Ethernet cable is very small and should have absolutely nothing to do with powering on the TV.
> 
> The only way this could be a hardware problem is if they connected the component/hdmi port somehow to the ethernet port but I have no idea why they would do this as there is no ground in an ethernet cable. If this is what they did it is definitely a manufacturing defect.
> 
> I did find a Ethernet Surge Protector. I'm not sure if it would help or not.


My guess , if you notice the HDMI and Ethernet Ports are near each other, is that their might be extra solder or connection issue on the motherboard, but I am not about to go venturing around to find the cause  My guess is the root cause is when the ethernet port is engerized, ie connected, their is a fault somewhere on the motherboard that you only run into if you have a power/ground float/etc. Tivo , hope you read this thread and fix the issue..

FWIW, I did connect the S3 to a separate house circuit, a separate UPS and connect the Sony to a separate house circuit and UPS as well....if the physical ethernet port was used, I would get freeze...USB works fine!

sjc


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

You know what you guys might try... You could put in a "ground breaker" on the coax lines coming in from your cable company. It can't hurt and it might help. My TV had horizontal lines rolling up and down the screen before I put the ground breaker on and now it's perfect. Anyway, you might give it a try. They are available at most places that sell TV stuff. www.hometechsolutions.com is where I got mine.


----------



## T-Shee (Sep 22, 2006)

"I've seen some weird ground-loop problems with HT setups that were traceable back to the cable system."

I agree with BAREYB. A cable ground isolator can fix the strangest problems. Cable systems have been known to be the source of many "power" problems, 60Hz hum, horizontal lines on TVs, etc. 

Before you buy a cable ground isolator/breaker, you could simply disconnect the S3 from the cable system and see if the problem goes away. If the problem stops with the cable input disconnected, a cable ground breaker would likely work in this situation.


----------



## lpinnell (Nov 20, 2006)

sjxmang said:


> My guess , if you notice the HDMI and Ethernet Ports are near each other, is that their might be extra solder or connection issue on the motherboard, but I am not about to go venturing around to find the cause  My guess is the root cause is when the ethernet port is engerized, ie connected, their is a fault somewhere on the motherboard that you only run into if you have a power/ground float/etc. Tivo , hope you read this thread and fix the issue..
> 
> FWIW, I did connect the S3 to a separate house circuit, a separate UPS and connect the Sony to a separate house circuit and UPS as well....if the physical ethernet port was used, I would get freeze...USB works fine!
> 
> sjc


 May I ask what USB to Ethernet device you (and others) are using, as in brand, model number, (and version number, since the Tivo models seem to be sensitive to this) ?

I am using the direct Ethernet connection. I connected my S3 to a UPS by itself almost a month ago, and has been running great since, but now I wonder if I have been really close to getting a freeze.

Lastly, for those who are still experiencing freezes and crashes, are these on S3 boxes that have the 8.0.1 rev C update? This has not been discussed much in this thread.

Lee


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

lpinnell said:


> I am using the direct Ethernet connection. I connected my S3 to a UPS by itself almost a month ago, and has been running great since, but now I wonder if I have been really close to getting a freeze.
> 
> Lastly, for those who are still experiencing freezes and crashes, are these on S3 boxes that have the 8.0.1 rev C update? This has not been discussed much in this thread.


If things are running great why mess with it? I wouldn't change anything unless it actually freezes.

I think everyone should have 8.0.1C by now. My S3 downloaded it the day after I bought it.

BTW - The S3 doesn't seem as stable as the S2 as 100% positive that it had reboot itself when I'm not around (I'm about 99% positive it rebooted this morning a little after 10:30 AM). Fortunately it doesn't seem to reboot that often, but my S2 very rarely reboots (every few months if that). I've had my S3 for about a month and I'm pretty sure it's spontaneously rebooted at least 2 times (software installs excluded).


----------



## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

lpinnell said:


> Lastly, for those who are still experiencing freezes and crashes, are these on S3 boxes that have the 8.0.1 rev C update? This has not been discussed much in this thread.
> 
> Lee


I have been experiencing the freezes (the ones when I turn on my TV) on occation (not consistantly like others have). I have been running 8.0.1c since the day I got it (over a month ago) (I forced it to update soon after the initial setup).


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Are people WITHOUT an Ethernet connection experiencing problems? If not, then we might be onto something...


----------



## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

bareyb said:


> Are people WITHOUT an Ethernet connection experiencing problems? If not, then we might be onto something...


It has worked for at least 2 people in this thread apparently and I know of at least 2 others who have never used the Ethernet port (they use wireless) that never have had this issue. This includes a friend of mine with the exact same TV, he bought the S3 the same time as me and uses the same cable company, but uses the TiVo wireless adapter.

Unfortunately, in my case, my S3 (which is connected via the Ethernet port) only has frozen (green screened) 2 or 3 times when I turned on my TV since I got the S3 a month ago. I ordered a USB to Ethernet adapter to see if that helps but I guess if the S3 doesn't die when I turn on my TV in a few months that might have been the issue, although by then I would hope newer software (8.1?) would be out by then and who knows if that would have a fix (assuming it could be fixed with software). For now I am leaving the Ethernet unplugged and then on occasion I will plug it in (after the TV is on) and then force an update until my USB to Ethernet adapter arrives.


----------



## sjxmang (Jul 19, 2005)

lpinnell said:


> May I ask what USB to Ethernet device you (and others) are using, as in brand, model number, (and version number, since the Tivo models seem to be sensitive to this) ?
> 
> I am using the direct Ethernet connection. I connected my S3 to a UPS by itself almost a month ago, and has been running great since, but now I wonder if I have been really close to getting a freeze.
> 
> ...


USB200M from Linksys. http://www.amazon.com/Linksys-USB200M-EtherFast-Network-Adapter/dp/B000085ZKV

From the thread above about disconnecting the S3 to test ground loop.. yes, doing that REMOVES the problem 

sjc


----------



## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

sjxmang said:


> USB200M from Linksys. http://www.amazon.com/Linksys-USB200M-EtherFast-Network-Adapter/dp/B000085ZKV
> 
> sjc


I own a Linksys USB200M. I bought it some years ago for my TiVo Series 2. It does work but the connector that the Ethernet plugs into flips up and is very fragile and can't take much stress on the cable. I also had heard newer versions of the the USB200M have issues with TiVo's? Anyway, I just ordered a Belkin F5D5050 Networking USB to Ethernet Adaptor for my S3.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000062R4P/102-2481855-9789754

It works with TiVo's and seems to be a little more rugged.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Just a question, but for those who have confirmed an issue with the ethernet port, have you called TiVo about it? It seems like if there is a manufacturing defect that you should let them know.


----------



## sjxmang (Jul 19, 2005)

morac said:


> Just a question, but for those who have confirmed an issue with the ethernet port, have you called TiVo about it? It seems like if there is a manufacturing defect that you should let them know.


I've went the route of Tivo Support and they were useless. I'd say I probably spent 6 hours on support with them , and it was useless. I'm glad to help out, but I think the chances of getting in touch with the right people where they could actually recreate the issue to diagnose it, is highly unlikely... ok soapbox mode off.... someone want to forward this thread to any Tivo Employees who read the forums?? 

sjc


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

sjxmang said:


> I've went the route of Tivo Support and they were useless. I'd say I probably spent 6 hours on support with them , and it was useless. I'm glad to help out, but I think the chances of getting in touch with the right people where they could actually recreate the issue to diagnose it, is highly unlikely... ok soapbox mode off.... someone want to forward this thread to any Tivo Employees who read the forums??


TiVo Employees read the forums, but they might not see every thread. I agree that support is sometimes useless, but if the same issue pops up a number of times it gets flagged by support and someone will look at it.

There seems to be a pattern forming now that wasn't there before. Previously people said they were getting a green screen crash when turning on certain brands of TV (Sony). Now it seems that the Ethernet port has something to do with it as well. The fact that a number of people have fixed the problem by switching from the Ethernet port to the USB port strongly suggests that that is a real problem.

So you have the facts WRT to green screen crashes when turning on the TV:
1. Ethernet port is being used.
2. TV is connected via HDMI (some report component as well).
3. So far mainly Sony brand TV's are being reported.

Note: I don't know how many S3 are out there and what percentage of them are using the ethernet port, hdmi cable and are hooked up to a Sony TV, but I would assume the number is larger than the number of people posting issues here. That might indicate a manufacturing flaw with a certain batch of S3s as opposed to a software error.


----------



## rocull (Mar 14, 2006)

sjxmang said:


> My guess , if you notice the HDMI and Ethernet Ports are near each other, is that their might be extra solder or connection issue on the motherboard, but I am not about to go venturing around to find the cause  My guess is the root cause is when the ethernet port is engerized, ie connected, their is a fault somewhere on the motherboard that you only run into if you have a power/ground float/etc. Tivo , hope you read this thread and fix the issue..
> 
> FWIW, I did connect the S3 to a separate house circuit, a separate UPS and connect the Sony to a separate house circuit and UPS as well....if the physical ethernet port was used, I would get freeze...USB works fine!
> 
> sjc


I get the green screen even when I switched to component cabling, although not as often. I am not happy with component inputs anyway, because I get a momentary flicker when switching between HD and non-HD programs that's not present with HDMI.

However, I am glad that someone noticed the Ethernet port commonality, so I just changed to a USB connection and will change to HDMI if the S3 will not reboot in the next week.


----------



## pashasurf7873 (Sep 22, 2006)

so far so good! 3 1/2 days with no lock up since I unplugged the ethernet cable. Thats by far the longest i have gone. I'm so Happy to finally just enjoy my Tivo and not stress on it.
Thanks for all the help.

Aloha!


----------



## pashasurf7873 (Sep 22, 2006)

PS I ordered the D-Link USB 2.0 Fast Enet Adapter
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006B7D8/002-8036481-7929606
Anyone know if it's compatible?


----------



## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

pashasurf7873 said:


> PS I ordered the D-Link USB 2.0 Fast Enet Adapter
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006B7D8/002-8036481-7929606
> Anyone know if it's compatible?


http://customersupport.tivo.com/LaunchContent.aspx?CID=1faa0420-0e05-4b2e-9a42-253346b15256
But, yes.


----------



## lpinnell (Nov 20, 2006)

For those experiencing the green screen crash, has anyone tried connecting HDMI *and* Component or Component *and* Composite, and then switch to the other connection to see if the freeze is also occurring at the other connection?

I know some have said they tried changing HDMI to component and saw the crash, but what about having more than connection established before the freeze, experiencing the freeze, and then switching to the other input to see if the freeze also occurred at the other input?

Lee


----------



## Warlord46 (Dec 2, 2006)

lpinnell said:


> For those experiencing the green screen crash, has anyone tried connecting HDMI *and* Component or Component *and* Composite, and then switch to the other connection to see if the freeze is also occurring at the other connection?


Yes, I tried that. Once frozen or green, the Tivo was done. Switching between HDMI and component did not result in a picture in one and not the other. Pulling the HDMI plug at that point did not help either.

Interestingly, I find that when my Tivo freezes up with the HDMI connected, it affects my other HDMI input into my Sony KDS-R60XBR1 for my DVD - the DVD cannot display either. When that first happened, I was relieved to find out that turning off the TV, unplugging the Tivo HDMI, and turning the TV back on restored DVD operation. I was concerned the Tivo might have damaged the Sony, in exchange for the Sony's having damaged the Tivo. Glad to find out that is not the case.

I've got two S3s, each hooked up to my home LAN using physical ethernet connections. I don't use WiFi, and have the router's radio turned off. The S3 hooked up to my LG brand LCD TV has had no problems with ethernet, or any of the other problems described in this thread. That's no proof that none of the S3s have ethernet issues, of course, but it is an indication that some S3s do just fine with ethernet. I remain suspicious of the entire setup -- the S3, the Sony, the ethernet, and the cable into my Tivo. Perhaps it's the combination that causes the problem.


----------



## pashasurf7873 (Sep 22, 2006)

Well, as the frustrated person that started this thread I happily announce that i have gone 8 solid days of HD Tivo bliss without a single lock up. Biggest thanks to *sjxmang* for sharing the unlikely solution to a hard to diagnose problem for a small group of people. 
Very grateful.

Aloha!


----------



## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

Wow, floating grounds. Just two days ago I was messin' with the cable splitter in my basement and got tingled pretty good by the cable. There was definitely an energized ground on the cable. I actually hooked up that ground lug on the splitter than no one ever uses. I wonder if it was the S3 that was energizing it?


----------



## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

If any of you experience this on a frequent, or reproducible basis, please send me a PM with your 15-digit TSN and contact information. I have reached out to one person on this thread already to gather diagnostic information, but could use a few more datapoints.


----------



## pottsee (Jan 27, 2007)

Anyone considered the possibility that this is a remote control code issue since it occurs with sony tvs when the television is turned on. It happened to mine this evening. I'm experimenting with alternate codes for testing. Assuming the first code is the problem most users would not move past it since it does work in regard to operating the tv. However if the first sony code isn't perfectly correct for the sxrd that I have it could affect the startup process. OR 

Just a guess but others have noticed issues with the tivo processing remote control commands after a delay. This delay combined with the power on handshake from the tv could cause a lock.

That or I'm completely full of it. 
Series 3 hd with 60" Sony SXRD


----------



## pashasurf7873 (Sep 22, 2006)

pashasurf7873 said:


> PS I ordered the D-Link USB 2.0 Fast Enet Adapter
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006B7D8/002-8036481-7929606
> Anyone know if it's compatible?


well i just got this adapter and NO LUCK. no lights come on, rebooted just in case but nothing. went into network settings and it said that the device i plugged in was not compatible. will be returning the adapter and ordering the belkin. any other adapter recomendations?


----------



## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

pashasurf7873 said:


> any other adapter recomendations?


Which Network Adapters Work with My TiVo DVR?


----------



## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

I bought a Belkin F5D5050 Networking USB to Ethernet Adaptor from Amazon.com and it works perfectly with the S3...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000062R4P/002-9533944-5760866


----------



## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

George Cifranci said:


> I bought a Belkin F5D5050 Networking USB to Ethernet Adaptor from Amazon.com and it works perfectly with the S3...
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000062R4P/002-9533944-5760866


Not a big fan of the built-in Ethernet port on the S3, eh?


----------



## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

ashu said:


> Not a big fan of the built-in Ethernet port on the S3, eh?


Try reading the entire thread dude. You can start at post #63 here...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4791375&&#post4791375

Understand now?


----------



## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

pottsee said:


> Anyone considered the possibility that this is a remote control code issue since it occurs with sony tvs when the television is turned on. It happened to mine this evening. I'm experimenting with alternate codes for testing. Assuming the first code is the problem most users would not move past it since it does work in regard to operating the tv. However if the first sony code isn't perfectly correct for the sxrd that I have it could affect the startup process. OR
> 
> Just a guess but others have noticed issues with the tivo processing remote control commands after a delay. This delay combined with the power on handshake from the tv could cause a lock.
> 
> ...


That is a possibility I. What is very interesting is that you have the same TV as I do and others with this issue also have Sony SXRD HDTV's. However, in my case this only happened a few times (I use a Harmony Remote to turn on my system). At least for 2 others in this thread going to a USB to Ethernet adaptor instead of the built in ethernet port seemed to stop the lockups. Unless we are talking about 2 separate issues. How long have you had your Series 3? Are you using the built in Ethernet port?


----------



## lpinnell (Nov 20, 2006)

After installing the UPS a couple days before Christmas, my Tivo ran great until last night. I got a black screen, no sound, no response. I used the TV and Tivo for a while, then turned off the TV. Half an hour later, I turned the TV back on, found a black screen. I had to turn off the UPS for 30 seconds, and back on. The Tivo booted once, thankfully. But I had to once again call Cablevision to have them reinitialize the cable cards. The cards came back needing copy protection authorization on the premium channels. The TV is the 60 in SXRD Sony TV.

I think I am going to try one of those USB-To-Ethernet devices...

Lee


----------



## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

George Cifranci said:


> Try reading the entire thread dude. You can start at post #63 here...
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4791375&&#post4791375
> 
> Understand now?


Whoa!

Gotcha


----------



## rgura (Feb 21, 2005)

George Cifranci said:


> Your TV is the 50" Sony SXRD correct? KDS-R50XBR1 ? When your TiVo freezes is the screen completely green?
> 
> That is what I saw on my 60" Sony SXRD KDS-R60XBR1 once so far.
> 
> ...


I have the same issue, green screen, Sony HDTV and connected via HDMI, has happened 4 times in 10 days.


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

rgura said:


> I have the same issue, green screen, Sony HDTV and connected via HDMI, has happened 4 times in 10 days.


Are you connected to the ethernet port on the S3? I thought we had narrowed this down to an ethernet problem no? Perhaps not...

I will say I got the freeze up on an S3 without the ethernet being connected. It happened to me twice. The cable cards were acting hinky so I went ahead and returned my S3 for a new one and so far it's been stable as can be. So not sure if the ethernet connector is the true culprit but in most of the cases I've seen here it sure seems to be...


----------



## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

rgura said:


> I have the same issue, green screen, Sony HDTV and connected via HDMI, has happened 4 times in 10 days.


What model of Sony HDTV do you have?

Also, read this post by TiVoJerry who is a TiVo Engineer....

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4816681&&#post4816681

Send him a PM so that he can monitor your Series 3.


----------



## tgaynor (Apr 16, 2002)

I have gone through four S3's all have had the same green/black screens and lock ups. I have a Sony KDS-R50XBR1 like some others on this thread. 

Has it been determined that it is a Sony and Ethernet port issue? Or is it just the Ethernet? 

I am unplugging Ethernet now.


----------



## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

tgaynor said:


> I have gone through four S3's all have had the same green/black screens and lock ups. I have a Sony KDS-R50XBR1 like some others on this thread.
> 
> Has it been determined that it is a Sony and Ethernet port issue? Or is it just the Ethernet?
> 
> I am unplugging Ethernet now.


Actually, if you are able to reproduce this easily, I would like to capture logs from a few failure incidents, if you're willing to help. I need diagnostic logs from a few more examples but have not received many volunteers.

If you're willing to help, please PM me with your 15-digit TSN.


----------



## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

There are a bajillion Sony XBR1 (SXRD) owners out there, and many of the S3 owners have these Sony TV's. The VAST majority have no issues.

I would be shocked if it's anything other than something else in your environment, or some really weird way a few of you have things set up.

I have a 60XBR1 (60" version of your TV), and the S3 since it first came out - never a hang problem.


----------



## sjxmang (Jul 19, 2005)

pottsee said:


> Anyone considered the possibility that this is a remote control code issue since it occurs with sony tvs when the television is turned on. It happened to mine this evening.  I'm experimenting with alternate codes for testing. Assuming the first code is the problem most users would not move past it since it does work in regard to operating the tv. However if the first sony code isn't perfectly correct for the sxrd that I have it could affect the startup process. OR
> 
> Just a guess but others have noticed issues with the tivo processing remote control commands after a delay. This delay combined with the power on handshake from the tv could cause a lock.
> 
> ...


No, I have tested this without any remote and still see the same results. IE as long as my Enet connection is used..

sjc


----------



## sjxmang (Jul 19, 2005)

TiVoJerry said:


> Actually, if you are able to reproduce this easily, I would like to capture logs from a few failure incidents, if you're willing to help. I need diagnostic logs from a few more examples but have not received many volunteers.
> 
> If you're willing to help, please PM me with your 15-digit TSN.


Jerry,

I sent you Private Message.. I can recreate this failure pretty quickly  Been having this problem since last september, but as long as I dont have Ethernet done via Physical connection and use USB (Linksys 200M) I have had no failures..

sjc


----------



## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

Looks like my last request has yielded several testers. Thanks for the help. 

Food for thought (if you're a tester, check it out and let me know via PM):
Everyone reports using HDMI connected to a Sony and the built-in ethernet.
What video settings do you use? (hybrid, native, fixed)
If you encounter this regularly, what buttons do you press for your startup sequence? (TV power, then TiVo Central) 
Are you using the TiVo remote or a different one (if so, which)?

I'm wondering if the video mode has anything to do with this. As such, if you're not using Fixed, try pressing the TiVo button first to bring up menus before powering on. If the problem still happens, that's one data point down.


----------



## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

AbMagFab said:


> There are a bajillion Sony XBR1 (SXRD) owners out there, and many of the S3 owners have these Sony TV's. The VAST majority have no issues.
> 
> I would be shocked if it's anything other than something else in your environment, or some really weird way a few of you have things set up.
> 
> I have a 60XBR1 (60" version of your TV), and the S3 since it first came out - never a hang problem.


Do you use the Ethernet port on your Series 3?


----------



## rocull (Mar 14, 2006)

In my case, the solution has been switching the S3 from the built-in Ethernet port to a USB Ethernet port. It's been 2 weeks now without any problems, where before I had problems on an almost daily basis.


----------



## superhomey (Feb 3, 2007)

Got my S3 a month ago and it crashed a few days ago. Started rebooting by itself, now it's locked up and won't do anything. Rebooting it doesn't fix it. It's hooked up to an old 27" Sony CRT via S-video and the wireless Tivo USB adapter. My S2 is hooked up to the same TV and works fine. I think that rules out ethernet and hdmi as culprits.


----------



## tgaynor (Apr 16, 2002)

superhomey said:


> Got my S3 a month ago and it crashed a few days ago. Started rebooting by itself, now it's locked up and won't do anything. Rebooting it doesn't fix it. It's hooked up to an old 27" Sony CRT via S-video and the wireless Tivo USB adapter. My S2 is hooked up to the same TV and works fine. I think that rules out ethernet and hdmi as culprits.


 superhomey,

Your issue does not seem to be the same as the others. All of the others reported are fine once the unit is rebooted.

Is yours still unusable? Sounds to me like a bad hard drive.


----------



## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

superhomey said:


> Got my S3 a month ago and it crashed a few days ago. Started rebooting by itself, now it's locked up and won't do anything. Rebooting it doesn't fix it. It's hooked up to an old 27" Sony CRT via S-video and the wireless Tivo USB adapter. My S2 is hooked up to the same TV and works fine. I think that rules out ethernet and hdmi as culprits.


If you have Cablecards and are in a reboot loop that is a different issue. I have also experienced that. I typically have to pull the Cablecards reboot the box and then put the Cablecards back in one at a time. I am sure there is another thread about the reboot loop issue.


----------



## superhomey (Feb 3, 2007)

George, I just removed the cablecards, rebooted and reinstalled them. Unfortunately it locks up as soon as I press a button. Maybe it is the harddrive. I just PM'd TivoJerry, maybe he can help.


----------



## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

superhomey said:


> George, I just removed the cablecards, rebooted and reinstalled them. Unfortunately it locks up as soon as I press a button. Maybe it is the harddrive. I just PM'd TivoJerry, maybe he can help.


Yeah, it sounds like you have a different issue and need to call TiVo support. Good luck.


----------



## sjxmang (Jul 19, 2005)

I have been back on the Physical Enet connection since Sunday and no crashes as of yet.. weird....so far not problems...


----------



## pottsee (Jan 27, 2007)

TiVoJerry said:


> If any of you experience this on a frequent, or reproducible basis, please send me a PM with your 15-digit TSN and contact information. I have reached out to one person on this thread already to gather diagnostic information, but could use a few more datapoints.


Jerry
-sony SXRD 60
-Wired Ethernet connection (haven't tried going back to the usb adapter yet thats a work-around not a solution)
-used lowest remote code number and highest but got another lock today
-monster(R) power center
-no cable cards
-only 2 lock so far both when using the sony remote to start the tv

Hope you get enough info for more significant testing


----------



## pashasurf7873 (Sep 22, 2006)

sjxmang said:


> I have been back on the Physical Enet connection since Sunday and no crashes as of yet.. weird....so far not problems...


really? keep us up to date. i'm so happy with my wired usb setup without lockups i'm afraid to go back.
Aloha


----------



## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

sjxmang said:


> I have been back on the Physical Enet connection since Sunday and no crashes as of yet.. weird....so far not problems...


Did you get the 8.1.1 update?



pashasurf7873 said:


> really? keep us up to date. i'm so happy with my wired usb setup without lockups i'm afraid to go back.
> Aloha


Same here, I really don't want the S3 to lock up especially if it is in the middle of recording something.


----------



## rgura (Feb 21, 2005)

Just as a test, I unplugged my wired Ethernet connection last week (Sunday). As of today, it has been 6 days since a green screen/crash. This is the longest I have gone since I had the thing.

I am going to keep it unplugged for another week, until TiVo start warning me about the lack of programming guide in memory, then plug it back in and see if I can get it to crash.

Righ now it seems to be a hardware problem wired Ethernet connection.

Rob



George Cifranci said:


> Did you get the 8.1.1 update?
> 
> Same here, I really don't want the S3 to lock up especially if it is in the middle of recording something.


----------



## cokyq (Jan 21, 2007)

I have a TIVO S3 and a Sony KF-50XBR800 and do not have that problem. 

My TIVO S3 is connected to my Denon 5800 receiver via component cables and optical TOSLINK for audio. Since my TIVO is not connected directly to the Sony TV (the Denon works as a switcher), that may have eliminated this issue for me.

I do have all my electronic equipment running on two UPS (CostCo for $99.95/each). It sure has come handy on more than one occasion!


----------



## Warlord46 (Dec 2, 2006)

bareyb said:


> You know what you guys might try... You could put in a "ground breaker" on the coax lines coming in from your cable company. It can't hurt and it might help. My TV had horizontal lines rolling up and down the screen before I put the ground breaker on and now it's perfect. Anyway, you might give it a try. They are available at most places that sell TV stuff. www.hometechsolutions.com is where I got mine.


Bareyb -- Thank you very much for this tip! I have been using it for a month now, and it has cured my problems with freezing and crashing due to "green screens" that were a daily occurrence with my S3 connected to my Sony HDTV. (See my earlier post #50 here.) I no longer have to go through my tricky startup and shutdown procedure to cut down on the annoying need to pull the plug and reboot. After installing it, I found that rarely I still would get a "black screen" followed by continuous boots, but it appears the 8.1 upgrade addressed that issue. I've had none of those infrequent events since the upgrade.

I know for a fact that in my case, using the "ground breaker" I ordered from the website you provided, my S3 went from an unreliable product to one that is as reliable as the my second S3 in the bedroom connected to an LG HDTV, which has never given me any problems.

By the way, I have a wired home network using CAT5 cabling, and did not have to go to a wireless connection to avoid the problems mentioned above. The "ground breaker" coupled with the 8.1 upgrade seemed to fix all problems.

Thanks!


----------



## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

I also bought one of those ground breakers but before that I added the Ethernet to USB adapter. I haven't had a freeze up green screen since.


----------



## Warlord46 (Dec 2, 2006)

George Cifranci said:


> I also bought one of those ground breakers but before that I added the Ethernet to USB adapter. I haven't had a freeze up green screen since.


There's a grounding issue that is apparently solved by using either fix. I wonder if the Tivo techs who designed the box can recognize some sort of ungrounded electrical connection between the coax and ethernet port that might account for this strange behavior.

I'm delighted my ground breaker has cured my S3 of unacceptable problems, as I'm sure you are too that your USB gizmo solved yours. No doubt your technique was a little cheaper, and a little easier to find at a local store.

I'd say this forum and thread were very helpful. I hope all of those with this frustrating problem, as well as Tivo customer service reps, can learn of these fixes.

Something I haven't tried is to disconnect the ground breaker to see of the 8.1 upgrade could alone eliminate these problems without the aid of the devices we are using. If so, this thread would become obsolete.


----------



## Testpattern (Dec 5, 2006)

devildog80 said:


> I have a Series 3 and Sony 60" Flat Screen projection. It worked well for a week and now every time I power off, when I power back up, all I have is snow on the screen. The only thing that works is powering off the TiVo and TV and power back up, resetting TiVo. All of my components are on a surge surpressor.
> 
> I can't figure it out


I have a similar problem with my 55" Sony SXRD and the Scientific Atlanta 8300HD cable DVR. When changing channels from SD to HDTV we occasionally get the frozen white screen. This is an known issue with some revisions of the 8300HD. I have previously unplugged my HDMI cable for a couple of seconds to regain picture lock. I've since found that changing inputs on the TV will correct this.

So now I switch from cable to OTA, wait on picture lock, and change back to cable. This re-establishes the picture without the hassle of unplugging. Cox tells me this is an HDMI problem and switching to component input will solve the issue. I haven't verified correct operation under component cabling but some others have. A number of folks on the AVS forum see this issue with the 8300HD and HDMI.

I have been planning on moving to the S3 to fix my current headache, plus I'm a longtime fan of Tivo...... but,

Question... can you recover your "white" Tivo picture by changing the TV input to another source and back again?

If so, this changes my perspective on the issue. Sony may have some ownership of this problem if we can confirm two differing external sources produce the same problem on Sony platforms.

Thanks...


----------



## Warlord46 (Dec 2, 2006)

Testpattern said:


> Sony may have some ownership of this problem if we can confirm two differing external sources produce the same problem on Sony platforms.
> 
> Thanks...


I've had 3 S3s. I still have one of the first two I got. It has been attached to an LG HDTV, and has never caused any problems. I sent back the other S3 because of crashing/green screen/freezing issues requiring me to unplug it to recover functionality that began occuring about 2 weeks after getting it. It was hooked up to my Sony 60" HDTV. Got a replacement S3 from Tivo, 2 weeks later it bit the dust too, same problems. I began suspecting something other than S3s, since my other S3 continued to work fine.

So I kept it for troubleshooting. Like others, I have a Sony, and also a home network that I hook up to my S3s. Found that putting the ground breaker I referred to in a post just above this one worked for me. Others who hook their S3s to their home networks use an ethernet-to-USB converter so as to use the USB input instead of the ethernet input on the S3. Both techniques seem to work. In my case, I use a coax splitter, one output to the TV and one to the S3. So the Sony and the S3 are connected through the coax and the HDMI cable, which is why I tried the ground breaker first, and that worked.

I have no idea why these seem to work. Finally, Tivo just made an upgrade to the S3 software, version 8.1. That alone may have cured the problems, as it coincidentally happened not long after I installed the breaker. Perhaps I don't need the breaker now, but I'm keeping it because it doesn't hurt and might help.

At any rate, if you go to an S3 with an Sony TV now, it appears you may not have to suffer through any more of these types of crashes.


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Warlord46 said:


> Bareyb -- Thank you very much for this tip! I have been using it for a month now, and it has cured my problems with freezing and crashing due to "green screens" that were a daily occurrence with my S3 connected to my Sony HDTV. (See my earlier post #50 here.) I no longer have to go through my tricky startup and shutdown procedure to cut down on the annoying need to pull the plug and reboot. After installing it, I found that rarely I still would get a "black screen" followed by continuous boots, but it appears the 8.1 upgrade addressed that issue. I've had none of those infrequent events since the upgrade.
> 
> I know for a fact that in my case, using the "ground breaker" I ordered from the website you provided, my S3 went from an unreliable product to one that is as reliable as the my second S3 in the bedroom connected to an LG HDTV, which has never given me any problems.
> 
> ...


Those little ground breakers are a handy little item to have around the house. Solves a myriad of odd problems in cable systems. I'm so glad it helped a couple of you guys out. Makes the effort to post this stuff worthwhile when it actually helps somebody. I've been helped a lot by these forums and it's good to give back something useful. Thanks for reporting back. :up:


----------



## T-Shee (Sep 22, 2006)

bareyb said:


> Those little ground breakers are a handy little item to have around the house. Solves a myriad of odd problems in cable systems. I'm so glad it helped a couple of you guys out. Makes the effort to post this stuff worthwhile when it actually helps somebody. I've been helped a lot by these forums and it's good to give back something useful. Thanks for reporting back. :up:


A word of caution when using the cable ground-breaker mentioned: I bought one and it made pixellization and audio dropouts worse. It was attenuating the signal and allowing radio frequency interference to cause some HD stations to disappear entirely!

When I removed it, pixellization and audio dropouts went away almost enirely. Granted my environment is overrun with RFI/EMI, near a MRI center/hospital, the worst possible situation for interference. YMMV.


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

T-Shee said:


> A word of caution when using the cable ground-breaker mentioned: I bought one and it made pixellization and audio dropouts worse. It was attenuating the signal and allowing radio frequency interference to cause some HD stations to disappear entirely!
> 
> When I removed it, pixellization and audio dropouts went away almost enirely. Granted my environment is overrun with RFI/EMI, near a MRI center/hospital, the worst possible situation for interference. YMMV.


It shouldn't attenuate the signal much. It's basically a pass through. Still, a lot of these problems are "voo-doo" and so are a lot of the fixes. If you try something and it makes things worse you take it out and vice versa. RF gremlins are the worst.


----------



## minnelli (Aug 8, 2007)

Looks like my problem was an Ethernet port problem on the back of the Tivo. Once I hooked up a usb to Ethernet I was set and the Green Screen of Death stopped appearing. It's been about 4 days and every new day I feel a little safer and need to cross my fingers less. Thanks to the community...

Thanks for the assistance,
Kevin Minnelli


----------



## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

minnelli said:


> Looks like my problem was an Ethernet port problem on the back of the Tivo. Once I hooked up a usb to Ethernet I was set and the Green Screen of Death stopped appearing. It's been about 4 days and every new day I feel a little safer and need to cross my fingers less. Thanks to the community...
> 
> Thanks for the assistance,
> Kevin Minnelli


That's what fixed it for me.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

minnelli said:


> Looks like my problem was an Ethernet port problem on the back of the Tivo. Once I hooked up a usb to Ethernet I was set and the Green Screen of Death stopped appearing. It's been about 4 days and every new day I feel a little safer and need to cross my fingers less. Thanks to the community...


This is still a problem? I wonder how widespread this issue is.

While it's nice to see there is a work around, using a USB to ethernet adapter instead of the built in ethernet port lowers network performance which can affect things like TiVoCast and Unbox download speeds.


----------



## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

After I installed an eSata drive (Antec MX-1) when I turn on the TV and my Yamaha Receiver (I use a Harmony Remote) sometimes once every week or so the screen of whatever show is currently playing will freeze and the Tivo will reboot. This doesn't happen every time. Maybe once every 2 weeks.


----------



## brn2rnjk1 (Jan 6, 2005)

Hi,
I have been reading this and want to chime in with some data that may or may not be useful. First, this concerns a S2 not S3, but the symptoms are similar. I have a sony tv (XBR) and had a pioneer tivo/dvd for almost two years before it started to freeze. Just replaced it and now my new S2 (not pioneer) is freezing in the same way. It just stops and the outside clock freezes. It is similar in what people are reporting above in that it worked fine for a week and now the freezes are more frequent.

Here is what I have done so far

- I have the power on a UPS system
- Changed all component wires
-Changed my ethernet power switch
-had my electrician run a power meter on the line \
-there is nothing on top of the box and no heat coming off what is below it

It was still freezing, so I have disconnected from the internet and it froze again.

Therefore, I am at a loss, unless others have suggestions. My thoughts are

1. Could be a coincidence- maybe the new one will not freeze
2. Could it be the cable box? Don't know how, since TV is unaffected and I wouldn't even know what to tell Cablevision to get them to send me a new one
3. Also, I am not sure that the first freeze doesn't damage the HD such that all attempts to troubleshoot later are useless?
4. Maybe evil cable is intentionally zapping tivos? Okay, not that but I am at wits end here and seeing how the S3s are having similar problems, thought I would ask and give my feedback



Thanks


----------



## Onibroc42 (Feb 5, 2003)

Just read this thread. I don't own anything on this list, and therefore never had these problems. But after reading the symptoms, there were only two answers that came to my mind.

Bad voltage regulation.
Bad ground.

When voltage was eliminated, that left only ground.

Reason? The cable companies do NOT gorund the shields on their coax, so they float. This plays havok with everything. I've had problems with hum, video interference, and other oddness in the past. It was always solved by grounding the cable shield to earth as close to the point of entry as possible.

I can tell you this - when I hooked up my Tivo in my new house last year, I got the wickedest 60 Hz hum until I disconnected the coax from the back of the TiVo. Then my hum went away.

Since I installed my splitter on the same board as my breaker box, I ran a hunk of 12ga solid copper from the ground lug on my splitter to the earth on the box (actually, a screw on a romex clamp, which has the same effect, since the box is tied to earth).

Hum gone. Snow gone. Ghosting gone.

I guarantee you that you are getting a voltage spike across the ethernet connection that is being isolated by the USB adapter (I'd bet on optoisolators). When the TV is not connected (component or HDMI, doesn't matter) that link to ground isn't there, and the TiVo can float happily. When the TV is connected, the shields on the cable are tied to ground through the TV, and the rest is history.

Someone please try this - tie your splitter to ground at the earliest point in your house. Not just a cold water pipe (like they usually use), but a real copper ground spike. Then get rid of the USB to ethernet adapter and the ground breaker.

Tell us what happens.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Onibroc42 said:


> I guarantee you that you are getting a voltage spike across the ethernet connection that is being isolated by the USB adapter (I'd bet on optoisolators). When the TV is not connected (component or HDMI, doesn't matter) that link to ground isn't there, and the TiVo can float happily. When the TV is connected, the shields on the cable are tied to ground through the TV, and the rest is history.


The only problem with this theory is that neither TV's nor the TiVo is actually grounded (ie: they don't have a 3 prong plug). The only ground in that setup should be the coax cable ground and the ground for any other grounded device attached to the TV (basically either a PS3 or a computer). So the ground should still float.


----------



## Onibroc42 (Feb 5, 2003)

morac said:


> The only problem with this theory is that neither TV's nor the TiVo is actually grounded (ie: they don't have a 3 prong plug). The only ground in that setup should be the coax cable ground and the ground for any other grounded device attached to the TV (basically either a PS3 or a computer). So the ground should still float.


The neutral line of an AC plug is also tied to earth, or at least should be if your house is wired properly. Ground does not float on any appliance in a properly wired house, or you'd get the excrement zapped out of you every time you touched something.

The third prong is used mostly as a hedge against improper wiring. _edit:_ The chassis of most modern electronics aren't grounded, THEY float. Which is what you're seeing here. That third prong is almost exclusively a chassis ground. The potential on the cable is causing a potential difference between neutral and the floating chassis, which then causes no end of problems for other circuits.

Don't believe me? Look in your circuit panel. You'll see one (or two) bus bars in there with bare copper and white jacketed wires connected to them. They'll both be connected to ground spikes. They'll also be connected to a neutral that comes from the pole.

Trust me. The problem is the lack of ground on the Cable wire. If you were to use a voltmeter to measure the potential between the jacket of the cable and true ground, you'd see something that is decidedly non-zero.


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Onibroc42 said:


> Just read this thread. I don't own anything on this list, and therefore never had these problems. But after reading the symptoms, there were only two answers that came to my mind.
> 
> Bad voltage regulation.
> Bad ground.
> ...


My experience has been almost exactly the same as yours. I didn't need a voltmeter to know there was a problem with mine - I got a shock between the cable shield and ground!!

Properly grounding the cable at its entrance to my home solved a myriad of problems.

Even more important the National Electrical Code (which is universally incorporated in local regulations) *REQUIRES* the cable to be grounded for safety reasons.

Following from 2002 NEC:

CATV [Article 820]. The metallic sheath of CATV cable entering a building or structure must be grounded to the earth as close as practicable to the point of entrance to the building or structure [820.33]. The grounding conductor shall be insulated and shall not be smaller than 14 copper AWG and its length shall be as short as practicable run in as straight a line as practicable [800.40].

In one- and two-family dwellings, the grounding conductor shall not exceed 20 ft in length. Where it is not practicable to limit the grounding conductor to 20 ft, the coaxial cable shall be grounded to a separate 8 ft ground rod [250.52(A)(5)] that must be bonded to the power grounding electrode system with a conductor not smaller than 6 AWG [820.40(D)].


----------



## Onibroc42 (Feb 5, 2003)

huh. didn't know that it was part of the NEC. I know that the cable company puts in a ground wire of their own, but they usually tap it to a cold water pipe. Which (in my case) they don't appear to have cleaned first, and we all know that copper oxide is just _such_ a good conductor.

When I bought this place, I had the electrical system upgraded, so I've got two shiny new copper ground spikes driven into the dirt, so there's no question I've got good ground here. But I had problems with video interference, and the hum I mentioned. The TiVo had never hummed before.

Tying the ground peg of the splitter to the case of the electrical distribution panel made all that go away. Little did I know I was following code by doing it!


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

I clamped my ground wire to the ground wire running from the ground rods to the electrical panel. 

FYI
The NEC allows using the water pipe as a ground (assuming a good electrical contact to the pipe of course) but ONLY if the connection is made within five feet of where the pipe enters the house and ONLY if the pipe makes direct earth contact for at least ten feet before entering the property and ONLY if there are no intervening insulating gaps in the pipe.


----------



## brn2rnjk1 (Jan 6, 2005)

I am not sure I follow how to ground the cable, but if the cable connection to the tivo is RCA plugs and not coax (-coax to cable box, rca component to tivo) would this still cause a potential problem. 

Keep in mind that in my setup, the problem just started and I have tivo for 2 years. It is just that the new tivo I bought is now having the same problem.


----------



## Onibroc42 (Feb 5, 2003)

brn2rnjk1 said:


> I am not sure I follow how to ground the cable, but if the cable connection to the tivo is RCA plugs and not coax (-coax to cable box, rca component to tivo) would this still cause a potential problem.
> 
> Keep in mind that in my setup, the problem just started and I have tivo for 2 years. It is just that the new tivo I bought is now having the same problem.


To answer your first question - yes. The shells of all those connectors is tied to the chassis of the Tivo. Being double-insulated, the Tivo's chassis floats (i.e. has no tie to any voltage reference). Since all the other components' chassis ALSO float, they kinda all float together. Now, along comes Mr. Cable Company with their shield floating. But their shield is at a different potential than everything floating in your house. There's your ground fault. That cable is changing the potential of everything else that's at DC ground. Now that DC ground is at some level that is not zero, you get AC leakage on the ground, which leads to the 60 Hz hum you hear, and also to the possibility of getting a shock when you touch the case of your TiVo.

Considering your new TiVo: that's because of the nature of the new problem.

In my old apartment, where I couldn't get a good solid ground, I didn't have an audio problem with the Tivo, but if I hooked a PC up to the system, it would hum like nobody's business.

I'm going to guess, and say that what's happening here is a ground-fault between the shell of the connector to the TV and the Tivo. This is changing the voltage reference for DC ground in the Tivo. Ethernet is a differential signaling method, but moving ground would also move the 0 voltage point, and throw the ethernet signals out of whack. Kinda like a DC offset on an AC signal line can mess up equipment not properly designed to filter it out.


----------



## Onibroc42 (Feb 5, 2003)

RoyK said:


> I clamped my ground wire to the ground wire running from the ground rods to the electrical panel.
> 
> FYI
> The NEC allows using the water pipe as a ground (assuming a good electrical contact to the pipe of course) but ONLY if the connection is made within five feet of where the pipe enters the house and ONLY if the pipe makes direct earth contact for at least ten feet before entering the property and ONLY if there are no intervening insulating gaps in the pipe.


That would explain the problems in the new house. The thing was tied to the cold water pipe at the point closest to the cable (about 20-30 feet from the water entry). And there was no jumper across the water meter, and I don't know what kind of connections are there, but I'm guessing iron.


----------



## mphtrilogy (May 29, 2007)

Has this occurred in the Tivo HD? And has anyone seen this problem occur since the software fix?

I have a new Tivo HD coming and do have a SONY TV, but want to know if I should be worred.


----------



## Onibroc42 (Feb 5, 2003)

mphtrilogy said:


> Has this occurred in the Tivo HD? And has anyone seen this problem occur since the software fix?
> 
> I have a new Tivo HD coming and do have a SONY TV, but want to know if I should be worred.


If you're properly grounded, you shouldn't have any worries. Alternatively, there seems to be consensus on the thread that using something other than the inbuilt ethernet port for networking resolves the issue as well.


----------



## mphtrilogy (May 29, 2007)

Thankyou.

If I did the construction in that room I'd be worried 

But hopefully its all legit grounded since I had a licensed electrician do all the work.

Famous last words


----------



## Onibroc42 (Feb 5, 2003)

mphtrilogy said:


> Thankyou.
> 
> If I did the construction in that room I'd be worried
> 
> ...


Right. But the cable guy probably just strapped the shield to the nearest pipe. If your electrician grounded the cable too, you're fine. If he didn't, then you should. If you have even the slightest doubt about your ability to do it, have your electrician do it for you.


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Onibroc42 said:


> Right. But the cable guy probably just strapped the shield to the nearest pipe. If your electrician grounded the cable too, you're fine. If he didn't, then you should. If you have even the slightest doubt about your ability to do it, have your electrician do it for you.


Or even worse as in my case the cable company made no effort at all to ground the coax! It was just left floating. I agree with Onibroc42 - if you have any doubts at all at least have your electrician take a look at it. The grounding code is to protect your house from fire and you and your family from shock.


----------



## rdrrepair (Nov 24, 2006)

Thank you to everyone who has worked on this problem and came up with 2 solutions. I never put the two together until I read this thread because from the time I hooked my cat-5 up until it started to freeze it was about a week. 

By removing my cat-5 cable and hooking up the USB adapter I have been able to make my S3 a reliable product once again.


----------



## T-Shee (Sep 22, 2006)

About a month ago, I upgraded to a new KDS60A3000 set. I connected my S3 to it with an HDMI cable and also connected a new Playstation 3 via HDMI.

(note: cable system is grounded at a "T" spiltter, to a cold water pipe. Best I can do, we are on the eleventh floor of a NYC apt. building. No direct Ethernet connection, using Tivo Wireless Adaptor.)

The S3 started crashing under very specific conditions:

If the HMDI for the PS3 is selected AND the PS3 is ON, turning the set on causes the S3 to freeze the picture (as though I hit the pause button) and will crash and reboot itself within 2 minutes.

It doesn't happen consistently, but I'd guess that under the above conditions, it will happen >50% of the time.

Lifting the ground from the PS3 (3 prong into 2 prong adaptor) was no help.

The only solution (unacceptable, long term) is to make sure that the playstation 3 is OFF when turning the set ON. (If the PS3 is OFF, it seems to make no difference as to which input is selected on the TV, as the crash does not occur with PS3 OFF.)

Any suggestions would be appreciated. I thought this problem with new SONY TVs had been solved, but apparently not.


----------



## Onibroc42 (Feb 5, 2003)

The problem is probably not with Sony, or the TV. And it is interesting that you don't have the TiVo ethernet port in use - as that was the original failure point.

But I still suggest my initial diagnosis. Try disconnecting your cable connection completely and powering up with the PS3 on. See what happens. If it continues to fail, then you may have a hardware problem with your TiVo. 

If it does not fail, then a ground isolator like someone linked above would probably be your best bet. By breaking the connection with the shield of the coax, you'll get rid of the voltage that is crashing the TiVo.

Grounding to a cold water pipe is troublesome at best, since all it takes is a single break in the pipe to make the ground go away. Also, if you aren't grounded within about 10 feet of the point of entry to the building, the pipe is pretty much useless as a ground.

My gut tells me that this is a design flaw in the TiVo HD. Could be an insufficient power supply, could be insufficient DC isolation at one or more of the inputs. But a good solid ground seems to alleviate the problem.


----------



## T-Shee (Sep 22, 2006)

Onibroc42 said:


> The problem is probably not with Sony, or the TV. And it is interesting that you don't have the TiVo ethernet port in use - as that was the original failure point.
> 
> But I still suggest my initial diagnosis. Try disconnecting your cable connection completely and powering up with the PS3 on. See what happens. If it continues to fail, then you may have a hardware problem with your TiVo.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the quick reply.

I've tried the ground isolator, installing one pre-emptively on my second Series 3 (first S3 had major crashing problems and was replaced by Tivo). The ground isolator leaked RFI/EMI into the coax core so badly that entire blocks of channels would disappear - I was forced to remove it and everything settled down into 100% reliable operation for the last year, and no problems with ESATA add-on drive either.

The S3 was "bulletproof" for the last 12 months.

Then, the new SONY came into the picture (no pun) and all hell broke loose.

I agree about the cable ground point, but there is not much I can do beyond the existing H-2-0 pipe. I could attempt to move the cable ground to the A/C electrical ground via a J-box attach point, but that freaks me a bit. (In theory, there should be no breaks in the cold water line, since this is NYC and PVC is "illegal" per NYC building codes. In theory.)

The only non-floating ground in my system is the receiver, and that is connected "electrically" to the TV's analog audio outputs via analog RCA patch cables, same as the "old" TV (without problems). I guess I'll have to pull those and test as well.

(I forgot - it did this when a PS*2* was connected via component input to the TV, and the PS2 was ON, component input selected on TV. The PS*2* was definitely floating, no ground prong.)

Now, it's not going to be "the end of the world" if I have to shutdown the PS3 before turning the set on, but it sure feels a bit like flushing the toilet and having the shower turn on.

Can I ground the splitter to the electrical systems ground? Safely?

Thanks again.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

T-Shee said:


> note: cable system is grounded at a "T" spiltter, to a cold water pipe.


There's one thing a water pipe is useful for, an antenna for a crystal radio.

I remember having a crystal radio as a kid in NYC and I thought it was the cat's meow. So maybe you should forget about 200 channels of cable TV. Just revise your expectations.


----------



## T-Shee (Sep 22, 2006)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> There's one thing a water pipe is useful for, an antenna for a crystal radio.
> 
> I remember having a crystal radio as a kid in NYC and I thought it was the cat's meow. So maybe you should forget about 200 channels of cable TV. Just revise your expectations.


It wouldn't be the antenna, the cold water pipe would be the GND, pretty much the diametrical opposite of the ANT. Built one when I was six or seven. Loved it. Antenna was a bare copper wire running from my window to a tree! Got one station only. WABC. Cousin Breeww...cey.

Cable TV will be all but dead in ten years; downloads, SDV and IPTV will be the norm. But since I'm paying for 1000 channels (and nothin' on...)

I'll figure it out without the crystal radio mentality, thanks.
If anyone else has a suggestion that doesn't involve going backwards in time... I'm all ears.


----------



## Onibroc42 (Feb 5, 2003)

T-Shee - It isn't just the possibility of breaks in the pipe, but the simple fact of distance. I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but it just is. I would have to guess that it's got something to do with all the connections and joints and whatnot, but I don't know. I do know that code (at least here) made me have two 8' ground rods driven into the ground on either end of my house, and have a massive #6 ground wire run between both of them and my panel, and a further #6 ground wire from the panel to the cold water pipe at the point of entry into the house. This was all installed by a licensed electrician and the inspector checked every single ground point. So I'm guessing that not even the NEC considers a cold-water pipe to be a suitable ground.

It is, in theory, safe to ground to the electrical panel. However, I'll repeat my warning from before - if you have the slightest hint of a doubt as to what you are doing, pay an electrician to do it. I'd rather see you pay $100 to get grounded than to have an EMT scrape you off the ceiling.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

Onibroc42 said:


> I'd rather see you pay $100 to get grounded than to have an EMT scrape you off the ceiling.


I don't think you have a good appreciation of the potential costs involved. He lives in NYC on the 11th floor of an apartment building.

About the only way to "get grounded" by a licensed electrician for $100 in NYC is to pay him that amount to throw you out of a nearby window.


----------



## T-Shee (Sep 22, 2006)

Onibroc42 and Phantom Gremlin:

Phantom is right (and very funny too!) I've been trying to get an electrician to do an overhead lamp (chandelier) install in my dining room - for over a year now. Seems small jobs just don't pay - they never call back, never got an estimate.

Based on that, I'd guess it would cost $250 and the electrician would open a window and _suggest_ I jump. Pushing me out the window would be extra.

Onibroc42: no worries, I'm a tech, and a cautious tech at that. Anything over 5-volts and I wear rubber shoes and gloves (kidding). I've done lots of 120v wiring projects without setting my wig on fire. Just never grounded a cable system to the A/C wiring plant before and have no qualms about asking 
"dumb" questions. [The chandelier project is over my head, ha! - moving a J-Box, pulling cable, etc. best left to the pros, if ever..]

I'll keep after it, the S3 errant ground troubleshoot, and I'll let you all know if I find a solution. For now, shutting OFF the PS3 works 100% and it is probably saving a sappling and a quart of crude, somewhere up the line.

oh, yeah, Phantom, the answer to your question would be "because that's how many vice presidents it takes to screw 451 full time employees."


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

T-Shee said:


> I'll keep after it, the S3 errant ground troubleshoot, and I'll let you all know if I find a solution. For now, shutting OFF the PS3 works 100% and it is probably saving a sappling and a quart of crude, somewhere up the line.


Here's a dumb question, but have you tried moving the PS3 to a different outlet or maybe plugging it into a UPS or something?

I find it strange that the PS3 would cause a grounding problem in the S3 when the S3 is also plugged into the wall outlet.

The other thing I'd be curious about is to see what happened if you left the PS3 turned on, but removed the HDMI cable before turning on the TV.


----------



## T-Shee (Sep 22, 2006)

morac said:


> Here's a dumb question, but have you tried moving the PS3 to a different outlet or maybe plugging it into a UPS or something?
> 
> I find it strange that the PS3 would cause a grounding problem in the S3 when the S3 is also plugged into the wall outlet.
> 
> The other thing I'd be curious about is to see what happened if you left the PS3 turned on, but removed the HDMI cable before turning on the TV.


Here's another freaky result of the trouble-shoot:

1) PS3 REMOVED
2) attached component cables from the S3 to COMPONENT IN on TV, in addition to the HDMI cable - creating a *dual connection* (ground loop test).
3) Turned on the TV

CRASH!!! (yes, the cable-system's "F' connector was still connected to the Tivo S3 at this point.)


----------



## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

T-Shee, I don't think you have ever said that all your electronics are plugged into the same power strip. Are they? Just to make sure you don't have any weird stuff in your building wiring that's the cause of your problems.

Once everything is plugged in to the same strip, make sure the cable system F connector is disconnected. Power everything up. Watch everything work. Plug in cable, watch the crash.

If that is reproducable, then call the cable company and demonstrate for them.

In apartment installations cable companies use amplifiers to boost the signal as it gets distributed. Maybe one of those amplifiers is defective?

Maybe you can threaten to "ground" the cable company employee if he doesn't see things your way?


----------



## T-Shee (Sep 22, 2006)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> T-Shee, I don't think you have ever said that all your electronics are plugged into the same power strip. Are they? Just to make sure you don't have any weird stuff in your building wiring that's the cause of your problems.
> 
> Once everything is plugged in to the same strip, make sure the cable system F connector is disconnected. Power everything up. Watch everything work. Plug in cable, watch the crash.
> 
> ...


Everythings plugged into the same power strip, been that way since day one.

What's the old bad ground joke, "...don't know it, but if you hum a few bars.." Stage musicians, esp. rock, know that one.

It's a digital cable system, the distribution amps are fairly new and clean running. The amp doesn't matter in the ground network, though. Leaky voltage anywhere on my floor, or further up/down the line, could be the culprit.

My cable company could care less. If you could find someone intelligent enough to understand a ground problem, odds are he wouldn't be working for the cable co. They don't employ people with IQs above 50.

I found an illegal tap into my cable line a few years ago (it was killing my broadband router, low SNR) and reported it to the cable co. Their answer was breathtakingly inane.

"We can't remove it, sir. We don't know who put it there, and since we didn't install it, we can't remove it." Swear to god.

I removed it myself. Yeah, I illegally removed an illegal tap. That makes it legal, AFAIK.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

T-Shee, you probably need to ask in a different forum. Maybe something on avsforum. I don't think you'll find too many grounding experts here.

I did a quick google for RF ground isolator and 1st hit was:

http://www.21best.com/21_best/electronic/security/video/filters/for_sale_.html

They sell a device
_VRD-1FFj
Your Price: $55.00
Cable TV RF Isolator. Digital Cable TV RF Ground Loop Isolator_

They claim 1300 MHz operation:
_For analog and digital cable TV and cable modems. Solves "Ground Loop" and "Hum Bar" problems. 2 MHz to 1300 MHz CATV isolator."F" connectors in and out, (digital cable compatible). analog, digital and cable modem compatible. High isolation reduces ground loops. 2 MHz to 1300 MHz bandwidth. _

I don't know how much you paid for your previous attempt at breaking the ground loop. This one is very expensive, so obviously better.


----------



## T-Shee (Sep 22, 2006)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> T-Shee, you probably need to ask in a different forum. Maybe something on avsforum. I don't think you'll find too many grounding experts here.
> 
> I did a quick google for RF ground isolator and 1st hit was:
> 
> ...


Hmmm, or hummm... that's is pricey. Yikes!

Thanks for the link. I still have a few steps left in the troubleshoot. If it resolves to the cable system as the bad-ground culprit, I'll check this one out.

The first cable ground isolator I installed was not for 1300mhz, leaked RFI/EMI like a sieve. It knocked huge blocks of channels out, and several HD channels would appear/disappear thruout the day. It was about $15.

$55 for that thing? wow. For that price, they should include the Vaseline.


----------



## bsather (Sep 8, 2006)

My Sony KDS-R50XBR1 SXRD (Nov 05 build) was gone for 2 weeks having the optical block replaced. It was returned Friday, and when I turned it on for the first time, Tivo had a message on the screen that I had a new software update (9.2a). Both Saturday & yesterday when I turned the TV on, the Tivo S3 froze. Connected via HDMI directly to TV, both S3 and TV connected to UPS-Battery Backup.

Nothing changed between the time the TV was taken and returned, except that latest software update. I am pretty sure that is the problem, as I have never experienced the problem in the past 14 months prior to that. Last night I unplugged the wired ethernet cable and will see what happens today.

My other S3 connected to a Panasonic plasma is experiencing no problem.

Update: Turned on the TV this morning with ethernet cable unplugged, no problems.


----------



## T-Shee (Sep 22, 2006)

bsather said:


> My Sony KDS-R50XBR1 SXRD (Nov 05 build) was gone for 2 weeks having the optical block replaced. It was returned Friday, and when I turned it on for the first time, Tivo had a message on the screen that I had a new software update (9.2a). Both Saturday & yesterday when I turned the TV on, the Tivo S3 froze. Connected via HDMI directly to TV, both S3 and TV connected to UPS-Battery Backup.
> 
> Nothing changed between the time the TV was taken and returned, except that latest software update. I am pretty sure that is the problem, as I have never experienced the problem in the past 14 months prior to that. Last night I unplugged the wired ethernet cable and will see what happens today.
> 
> ...


I doubt the software is the problem, since this "Sony TV" bug was around long before the 9.2 software update. You're configuration (Sony TV + wired ethernet) matches the original bug conditions exactly.

If it's not too much to ask, could you tell us what exactly is plugged into the set, what devices and the connections you've made. It could help in the trouble-shoot.

Sounds like you're a candidate for proper cable-system grounding and/or the Tivo Wireless G adaptor.

I grounded a second splitter in my cable network, this time to the electrical ground. No crash this morning, but it's not conclusive, not until I get at least fifty or sixty starts with no problems.


----------



## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Interesting to find this thread as my TiVo (which is connected to a Sony KS60A2000 LCoS TV) locked up for the 2nd time yesterday.

The TiVo is left on all of the time and is connected to a high quality UPS power conditioner. The coaxial connection from the cable co is grounded outside of the home at the distribution box.

Twice now when my wife has turned on the TV the Tivo has frozen up. The menus can still be accessed, etc, but the picture of any program (live or recorded) will be frozen. A reboot of the Tivo through the menu will correct the issue.

Connected to the television is a Denon amplifier (component video), Xbox 360 (component video), HD DVD player (HDMI) and the Tivo (HDMI). It's a strange issue. I don't recall it occurring prior to upgrade to the 9.1 branch of software.


----------



## bsather (Sep 8, 2006)

T-Shee said:


> I doubt the software is the problem, since this "Sony TV" bug was around long before the 9.2 software update. You're configuration (Sony TV + wired ethernet) matches the original bug conditions exactly.
> 
> If it's not too much to ask, could you tell us what exactly is plugged into the set, what devices and the connections you've made. It could help in the trouble-shoot.
> 
> ...


Besides the software update, only one other thing changed. When the technician plugged the TV power cord into the UPS battery backup, he used a different outlet than was originally used. I know I'm stretching with that one, but I did change to the original outlet this morning after I turned the set off.

Sony SXRD, Tivo S3, Denon 2807 receiver, Toshiba XA2 HD-DVD player all power plugged into a Belkin Battery Backup (1500VA).

S3 - HDMI to TV - optical audio to receiver.
XA2 - HDMI to receiver
Denon 2807 - HDMI to TV


----------



## T-Shee (Sep 22, 2006)

bsather said:


> Besides the software update, only one other thing changed. When the technician plugged the TV power cord into the UPS battery backup, he used a different outlet than was originally used. I know I'm stretching with that one, but I did change to the original outlet this morning after I turned the set off.
> 
> Sony SXRD, Tivo S3, Denon 2807 receiver, Toshiba XA2 HD-DVD player all power plugged into a Belkin Battery Backup (1500VA).
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. The "common thread" seems to be multiple connections to the Sony. If I can free up some time later, I'll try to go back in this thread and see if there were instances of single connections to the TV (here, we would have to assume it would be an S3 Tivo) that also crashed when the set was turned on.

If anyone out there can assist in this knowledge gathering, we'd be most appreciative. Thanks.


----------



## bsather (Sep 8, 2006)

T-Shee said:


> Thanks for the info. The "common thread" seems to be multiple connections to the Sony. If I can free up some time later, I'll try to go back in this thread and see if there were instances of single connections to the TV (here, we would have to assume it would be an S3 Tivo) that also crashed when the set was turned on.
> 
> If anyone out there can assist in this knowledge gathering, we'd be most appreciative. Thanks.


Just connected the wired ethernet cable and fired up the TV....black screen with a horrendous squeal.....yikes! Frozen S3.....how bizarre to have this start after 18 months.

Will a USB network adapter work?


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover (May 4, 2005)

bsather said:


> Just connected the wired ethernet cable and fired up the TV....black screen with a horrendous squeal.....yikes! Frozen S3.....how bizarre to have this start after 18 months.
> 
> Will a USB network adapter work?


My guess is that the adapter will solve the problem.


----------



## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

bsather said:


> Just connected the wired ethernet cable and fired up the TV....black screen with a horrendous squeal.....yikes! Frozen S3.....how bizarre to have this start after 18 months.
> 
> Will a USB network adapter work?


My issue with my Sony SXRD HDTV (R60XBR1) is that sometimes when I would turn on the TV (with my Harmony Remote which also turns on my AV Receiver) that I would get a green screen and the Tivo would be frozen and then reboot. After I got a USB to Ethernet adapter it stopped locking up like that.

Although after connecting my eSata drive sometimes when I turn on the TV the screen will freeze and sometimes come back, but when I try to play something that is already recorded it will say that it wasn't able to record it because there was no signal. However when I reboot the TIVO the program plays fine.


----------



## T-Shee (Sep 22, 2006)

Well, the S3 froze up again when I turned on the set - with the PS3 on (it's never done it with the PS3 OFF). I thought previously that one of the specific conditions for the freeze was that the TVs input was on the PS3 connection, not the Tivo. That's been ruled out now.

(By the way, I managed to reboot the Tivo pre-emptively before the crash this time. Pressing the TIVO button to get to the menus was very sluggish, but I got to the RESTART before it locked up completely and rebooted itself.)

Apparently, my second ground to the elec. syst. gnd, makes no difference. And for anyone who's interested, I'm using the USB network adapter, not a direct ethernet connection.

Next step in the troubleshoot: completely disconnect from the cable system.

Another thought: the Tivo is also connected to the phone line as a backup, not used at this point. I may have to break that connection as part of the trblshoot.

I'll keep after it. Not giving up. Keep you posted.


----------



## Brad Bishop (Sep 11, 2001)

Something to try (I just scanned through the last page and didn't see it):

Dump HDMI altogether (don't even connect it between the TV and the TiVo so there's never a situation where they'd try to communicate/negotiate). Hook up your TiVo via component cables to your Sony TV.

I was having weird issues with an old cablebox and thought it was my TV. Turned out there was a firmware update and it was incompatible with my TV (and a lot of others, too). HDCP gets in the way. With component things 'just work'. Dumb as it is.

Just a thought as everyone is looking for ground loops and such and there could very well be one hosing up the communication between the TiVo and the TV.


----------



## Onibroc42 (Feb 5, 2003)

Brad Bishop said:


> HDCP gets in the way. With component things 'just work'. Dumb as it is.


Dumb (as in no 'intelligence' in the signal) is precisely why it works.

From what I am told there is no difference in image quality between HDMI and Component, but I'm not sure I believe that.

But the DRM that is inherent in HDMI is certainly causing enough problems where people don't care.


----------



## T-Shee (Sep 22, 2006)

Brad Bishop said:


> Something to try (I just scanned through the last page and didn't see it):
> 
> Dump HDMI altogether (don't even connect it between the TV and the TiVo so there's never a situation where they'd try to communicate/negotiate). Hook up your TiVo via component cables to your Sony TV.
> 
> ...


Good thought. When i first got the TV and cabled everything up, I had both component cables AND HDMI from the S3 connected. It crashed. I removed the component cables and it stopped crashing until the PS3 was added via HDMI (and ON, doesn't crash when PS3 is OFF).

I'll add that to the list of things in working thru this bug, but I'm not real keen on NOT using HDMI in the final config.

By the way, IF the PS3 is connected via component cables AND ON, crash!
So it could be an HDMI (hdcp) handshake issue, but given all that I've seen so far, it really feels like a ground bug, not HDMI.


----------



## Brad Bishop (Sep 11, 2001)

I really like the idea of HDMI. The implementation and the inclusion of HDCP screws things up.

Really, outside of the cable bulk, component cables work, arguably, just as well as HDMI but without the handshaking/HDCP nonsense.

Better put: You won't come home 1 year from now, see weird digital-static on your display, and wonder why your TV is broken (I almost had a TV repair guy come over before I figured it out). It's dumb that it is even a possibility.

Anyway, I can understand the allure of HDMI: It's all digital, all one cable, etc. Good luck in your testing.


----------



## sjxmang (Jul 19, 2005)

Guys,

This has been around since the first release of the S3, which I purchased...and was one of the luckly ones to get the nice tote bag  Anywhoo:

I've spent countless hours working on this (search my previous posts) and this is what I have found:

8.3 software (ORG software release): If you have the Ethernet Cat 5 cable connected and HDMI to a Sony TV (mine is LCD RP 55 inch) and you TV Power ON, there is a good chance the S3 will 'die' requiring you to do a hard reboot. The box 'dies' during the HDMI handshake. I've gone as far as letting TivoPony turn Debugging on my S3  Workarounds: Use a USB Net Adapter or Component.

8.3.X subsequent releases: My S3 worked flawlessly: with Enet Cat 5 and HDMI connected.. Worked fine for 10 months or so.

9.1 software (pre Blessed External Storage): BAM the damn bug shows up again and my box begins to 'die' when I power on. --Oh yeah....Pixelation started appearing, but I digress..

9.2 Pixelation went away, but the S3 still dies when I power on with HDMI and Cat 5 Enet connected. I resolved this by moving over to Component, since I now have a SlingBox Pro connected.

The short of this, and you can check my previous posts. Ground Loop is an issue with any electronics, and I originally thought this was the culprit.. However I have the entire system isolated, and I still have the same errors...and I can reproduce them on demand--albeit I don't  

Tivo Customer support was useless in getting this 'debugged'.. TivoPony was great help.. TivoPony, I am glad to help out with any debugs, surely this can be fixed with a software update. My S3 was perfect for about 10 months, before the 9 series was released... 

I do have one suggestion for Tivo, maybe Tivo Pony can run it up the chain. If the Box 'crashes', at least display the crash messages on the LCD panel...that way we can give diagnostic info to tech support when we call into them...instead of having to argue for hours on the phone just to get someone to listen to our issue..

I guess it's the price you pay for being an early adopter of Tivo, but even with all the warts, I do love my Tivo's (2 x S2 and 1 S3).

sj


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I don't think you have a good appreciation of the potential costs involved. He lives in NYC on the 11th floor of an apartment building.
> 
> About the only way to "get grounded" by a licensed electrician for $100 in NYC is to pay him that amount to throw you out of a nearby window.


THAT...IS...*HYSTERICAL!!!!!*

Thank you. I haven't laughed that hard in a very long time.


----------



## lpinnell (Nov 20, 2006)

George Cifranci said:


> My issue with my Sony SXRD HDTV (R60XBR1) is that sometimes when I would turn on the TV (with my Harmony Remote which also turns on my AV Receiver) that I would get a green screen and the Tivo would be frozen and then reboot. After I got a USB to Ethernet adapter it stopped locking up like that.
> 
> Although after connecting my eSata drive sometimes when I turn on the TV the screen will freeze and sometimes come back, but when I try to play something that is already recorded it will say that it wasn't able to record it because there was no signal. However when I reboot the TIVO the program plays fine.


I took George's advice back in January (thank you, George!), and got myself the Belkin USB-to-Ethernet adapter to solve my S3 freeze issues. Once I hooked it up, I have not seen a freeze since in the last 10 months. I have an S3 and XBOX 360 Elite (which itself is connected to Ethernet) both hooked up to my R60XBR1 via HDMI. Tivo recognized the Belkin device without a problem, and the On Line Scheduling still works fine. I am sure the network throughput is a bit slower, but I don't care, I just want the S3 to not freeze. For those readers who don't feel like searching in this forum thread for the Amazon link to the device:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000062R4P/102-2481855-9789754

George, do you have the Western Digital "My DVR Extender" drive?


----------



## T-Shee (Sep 22, 2006)

Brad Bishop said:


> I really like the idea of HDMI. The implementation and the inclusion of HDCP screws things up.
> 
> Really, outside of the cable bulk, component cables work, arguably, just as well as HDMI but without the handshaking/HDCP nonsense.
> 
> ...


Thanks.
Just so we're on the same page, you're fix is to go with COMPONENT CABLES from the S3 to the Sony TV, and dispense with HDMI? Correct?

Is that what your current config is? No crashes since? No other HDMI devices connected to the TV?

Thanks.


----------



## T-Shee (Sep 22, 2006)

sjxmang, regarding post #180:

Thanks for the "bug" history, and ostensibly keeping me from re-inventing the wheel, bug-wise. I feel your pain, retroactively.

Just to be sure, *your current fix is "component cables", no HDMI from the S3?
*
(It's a major pain in the you-know-what to move the set for cable access, so this is a "measure twice, cut once" pre-emptive question.)

Thanks.

By the way, what's your subjective opinion of the PICTURE QUALITY differences between HDMI and COMPONENT? How much will I be losing?

[The Sony is a 60" A3000 (1080p) and the difference between 720p and 1080i is quite visible - my point is that resolution differences that are all but invisible on other sets are glaringly obvious on this set, one reason I'd prefer not to have to bail on HDMI from the S3.]


----------



## sjxmang (Jul 19, 2005)

T-Shee said:


> sjxmang, regarding post #180:
> 
> Thanks for the "bug" history, and ostensibly keeping me from re-inventing the wheel, bug-wise. I feel your pain, retroactively.
> 
> ...


NO HDMI from S3, just component. I've not noticed any degradation in picture quality at all...both at 720p and 1080i..

Alternatively, you can just use a USB Network cable and keep the HDMI. The bug only occurs when the Cat 5 Ethernet port is connected and powered. If you want HDMI, I would just use USB Network Connector.

sjc


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

sjxmang said:


> NO HDMI from S3, just component. I've not noticed any degradation in picture quality at all...both at 720p and 1080i..
> 
> Alternatively, you can just use a USB Network cable and keep the HDMI. The bug only occurs when the Cat 5 Ethernet port is connected and powered. If you want HDMI, I would just use USB Network Connector.
> 
> sjc


That's what I'm doing. I have no desire to climb under the house to run Ethernet cables only to find they make my Sony Flatscreen turn off. The Wireless Adapters are on sale right now at Amazon.com for $36.99. I just ordered two of them. I've heard the speeds are on par with a direct wired network connection if you have a G or N network.

http://www.amazon.com/TiVo-AG0100-Wireless-Network-Adapter/dp/B000ER5G6C/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1196231438&sr=8-1


----------



## bsather (Sep 8, 2006)

HawaiiTivoLover said:


> My guess is that the adapter will solve the problem.


Connected the USB adapter, turned TV on....no problems. Then, a couple of hours later while the S3 was recording two programs, the S3 decides to reboot. I'm not sure if the adapter caused it or not...but to be safe I changed the connection to the TV from HDMI to Component, and went back to the wired ethernet to see if the freezing problem returned.

If I decide to go the wireless route, do I just need the TiVo Wireless G USB Network Adapter & a wireless router?

Thanks for any info


----------



## T-Shee (Sep 22, 2006)

bsather said:


> Connected the USB adapter, turned TV on....no problems. Then, a couple of hours later while the S3 was recording two programs, the S3 decides to reboot. I'm not sure if the adapter caused it or not...but to be safe I changed the connection to the TV from HDMI to Component, and went back to the wired ethernet to see if the freezing problem returned.
> 
> If I decide to go the wireless route, do I just need the TiVo Wireless G USB Network Adapter & a wireless router?
> 
> Thanks for any info


Yup. That's it. Been using the Wireless G since day one. Works great. No problems.


----------

