# Walking Dead 3/11/12 "Better Angels"



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Well, I'd say that's pretty definitive on whether you need to be bitten to be turned...


----------



## Vendikarr (Feb 24, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, I'd say that's pretty definitive on whether you need to be bitten to be turned...


Now Rick just has to admit that Jenner told him this before the CDC go boom.


----------



## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

All I got is dayum!


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

I never read the comics so I'm a little lost as to why they are now turning without being bit.

Who taught Carl how to shoot like that?!


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

They are all already infected "walking dead" and when the heart stops or die or whatever, the zombie virus or whatever it is takes over.

All I gotta say (I don't watch previews) is that next week will have some good old fashioned zombie killing/running away.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

gossamer88 said:


> I never read the comics so I'm a little lost as to why they are now turning without being bit.


They always have been.

We just haven't seen it this explicitly before. But a couple weeks ago Rick and Shane were wondering why the deputy zombies they killed didn't have any bite marks.


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> They always have been.
> 
> We just haven't seen it this explicitly before. But a couple weeks ago Rick and Shane were wondering why the deputy zombies they killed didn't have any bite marks.


Did a little research. The title 'The Walking Dead' refers to the people that are still alive. So yeah, they're all infected. Did Sophia have a visible bite marks? 'Cause that would explain that since she had no survivor skills she died from starvation or the like.


----------



## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> They always have been.
> 
> We just haven't seen it this explicitly before. But a couple weeks ago Rick and Shane were wondering why the deputy zombies they killed didn't have any bite marks.


Yeah, we pretty much surmised that the CDC guy whispered "my wife was never bit" or something to that effect.

It doesn't explain the highway graveyard or why he administered the blood tests though.


----------



## NetJunkie (Feb 19, 2003)

So why were the people in cars not zombies? Plot holes.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

NetJunkie said:


> So why were the people in cars not zombies? Plot holes.


They died early in the crisis. Perhaps they hadn't been infected yet.


----------



## jgmack1 (Oct 19, 2011)

Why have many more people died than have survived? So far we have seen huge numbers of Zombies, and a few groups of humans.


----------



## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

Holy crap!

For the first 25 minutes or so I was really wondering if this episode was going to suck. That all went out the window! Great episode!

Didn't take long for Shane to zombify. A lot less time that it took for Andrea's sister to change. I wonder if the virus (I think we can assume that's what causes the resurrection) has mutated? If it has, when will it start turning people that are near death? That would give a plausible scenario as to why Shane had become so unhinged.



gossamer88 said:


> Did Sophia have a visible bite marks? 'Cause that would explain that since she had no survivor skills she died from starvation or the like.


Yes, she had a huge wound on the left side of her neck.

It may still be that not everyone has the virus. Maybe CDC doctor told Rick that Shane tested positive? That would explain why the people in the cars on the highway were not zombies


----------



## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

gossamer88 said:


> Who taught Carl how to shoot like that?!


I think, ironically, it was Shane.

But I can't remember that episode well enough. Rick and Shane both probably had a hand in his instruction.


----------



## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

The very end of this really bugged me. There's a herd of 50 or more walkers on the edge of the field and none of those guys noticed while they were searching? Where the hell did those walkers come from?


----------



## Eptiger (Jan 16, 2009)

Peter000 said:


> The very end of this really bugged me. There's a herd of 50 or more walkers on the edge of the field and none of those guys noticed while they were searching? Where the hell did those walkers come from?


I think we can suspend disbelief enough to say that it was beyond a hill (or at least I recall it being a hill) so they couldn't see it and it was away from the direction where they were searching.

Pretty crazy episode, one of the best ever I thought - I feel dumb that I never considered the possibility that they were all infected. With that revelation then I wonder how the show can continue. If there wasn't much hope before, now there's really no hope for them.

Elton


----------



## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Eptiger said:


> I think we can suspend disbelief enough to say that it was beyond a hill (or at least I recall it being a hill) so they couldn't see it and it was away from the direction where they were searching.
> 
> Pretty crazy episode, one of the best ever I thought - I feel dumb that I never considered the possibility that they were all infected. With that revelation then I wonder how the show can continue. If there wasn't much hope before, now there's really no hope for them.
> 
> Elton


See, I can't suspend that disbelief. They literally within 2 minutes of where Shane and Rick ended up, in the field totally visible to the barn and the farm.

The only explanation for where they came from that I can think of is that all of the corpses from that traffic jam suddenly reanimated.

As to there being hope... well all that's required now is they lobotomize anyone who dies. I don't really see how this affects things very differently.


----------



## jgmack1 (Oct 19, 2011)

Anyone who dies needs to be incinerated immediately.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I think the issue with the horde of walkers can be described this way: 

There are many isolated walkers wandering around in the woods. We've already seen this with the occasional walker getting stuck in the swamp. When Carl shot Shane, the sound caused all those walkers to take notice and start heading for the sound. Rick and Carl probably sat there for a while and decompressed before heading back, which gave the walker horde time to form up and get close to the farm. 

I'll be really interested to find out the explanation for why the people on the highway died in their cars, yet never turned into walkers. 

I also would love to question the director of this episode and ask why they intercut those random growls and zombie images right after Shane died. That was a very strange choice, and removed all suspense from the scene.


----------



## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

Hopefully there will be a plausable explanation as to why the "walker metamorphosis" timeline has suddenly accelerated. Shane went from dead to zombie in no time. Ditto with what's his face, outsider kid.

Unfortunately, I was reading the IMDB message boards for The Walking Dead and some clown started posting the spoiler ending repeatedly on purpose just to troll. At first I didn't believe it, but by the time the ending came, it had been ruined for me. Note to self, never read any message boards again during a live show.

On a related note, I'm glad Shane is gone. I hated the fact that he was obsessed with Lori and Carl, and there wasn't room for real daddy and daddy-by-proxy. It's going to be real interesting, though, storyline wise without him around, since that character was so fully developed and integrel to the story so far.

I did feel that we had a "walker invasion" coming...seems to be a great dynamic to drive them off the farm. Perhaps Herschel will stay now that Dale's gone (as sort of a character replacement).


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I had two thoughts for the last couple of minutes of this show:

"Yaaaaay!!!" (Shane's dead)

"Doesn't ANYBODY EVER watch this kid?" (Carl)

I also wondered how Rick couldn't hear a growling and random noise making zombie right behind him and when anybody was going to ask Darrell if it was ok if Carl kept his gun.


----------



## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

I thought it was interesting that Shane was going to shoot Rick in the middle of an open field instead of the seclusion of the woods. 

The Zombies at the end were looked like the were over a rise and down a hill based on how the camera had to elevate in order to see them. 

Looks like it will be a knockout finale.


----------



## Ekims (Oct 18, 2002)

Not sure if anyone caught it or not, but T-Dog had a speaking role in last night's episode.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

I think the Rick/Shane yelling for a bit didn't help in regards to zombies coming. Gun shot being the final straw.

Are Glenn/Daryl still out there, are they on the other side of the zombies now?


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Has Glen ever actually played that guitar?


----------



## Roommate (Apr 23, 2003)

NetJunkie said:


> So why were the people in cars not zombies? Plot holes.


tvline.com posted an interview with showrunner Robert Kirkman after last night's episode that addresses this question:



> TVLINE | This does raise the question about the dead bodies in the season-opening traffic jam  why hadnt they all been turned?
> I think if you go back and watch that sequence you'll see we were very careful to have them be in cars that were in accidents, so the brain wouldve had trauma. Or they had some kind of wounds somewhere on their heads to show that their brains had been killed, like somebody came across and killed them. We knew that we were building to this throughout the entire season.


Full interview here. Might contain very mild spoilers for next week's finale.


----------



## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> Has Glen ever actually played that guitar?


I think he just tells Maggie he can. I've told girls I can do much more than that before.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> I also would love to question the director of this episode and ask why they intercut those random growls and zombie images right after Shane died. That was a very strange choice, and removed all suspense from the scene.


I saw it as a callback to that guy who they left propped up under a tree near the end of the first season (can't remover his name; he spent a whole episode digging what turned out to be graves...). While he was feverish and dying, he kept having the same flashes of zombies. So this was the director choreographing that Shane was turning. Is that more dramatic and suspenseful than showing it differently, where in one cut he's dead and in the next he's seen undead and standing behind Rick, to be blown away by Carl moments later? I think it is a judgment call. I like the way it was done, personally.



Ekims said:


> Not sure if anyone caught it or not, but T-Dog had a speaking role in last night's episode.


Who?


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Ekims said:


> Not sure if anyone caught it or not, but T-Dog had a speaking role in last night's episode.


"Oh _hell_ no!" Nice one T-Dog!



MikeMar said:


> I think the Rick/Shane yelling for a bit didn't help in regards to zombies coming. Gun shot being the final straw.


Remember there were two gunshots (Shane's gun went off when he was stabbed). And, the night before there was another gunshot (Dale's coup de grace). It could be that the zombies have been migrating towards the farmhouse for a while due to the noise but when the noise stops, they start wandering aimlessly until more noise starts them moving again. This time they were close enough to smell the blood and keep coming.

Anyway, things like this and the time it takes Shane to turn don't bother me.


----------



## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

Maui said:


> I thought it was interesting that Shane was going to shoot Rick in the middle of an open field instead of the seclusion of the woods.
> 
> The Zombies at the end were looked like the were over a rise and down a hill based on how the camera had to elevate in order to see them.
> 
> Looks like it will be a knockout finale.


I don't think Shane ever really wanted to kill Rick. I think deep down, Shane wanted Rick to kill him. To put HIM out of his misery. He knew Lori would never love him like she loved Rick and that's all he wanted. Sort of a "death by cop" since he was too chicken to take his own life, or to just up and leave.

Looked like a .45 that Carl had and the way he was holding it, there's no way he hits Shane at 20 meters, in the moonlight, square in the forehead. Why can't Carl just go away. Seriously - someone hand cuff him to a leash in the house and be done with him.

I don't think there's any doubt anymore about needing to be bit/scratched. I really want to know now what the CDC guy told Rick.


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Necromancer2006 said:


> I don't think Shane ever really wanted to kill Rick. I think deep down, Shane wanted Rick to kill him. To put HIM out of his misery. He knew Lori would never love him like she loved Rick and that's all he wanted. Sort of a "death by cop" since he was too chicken to take his own life, or to just up and leave.


I almost posted the "suicide by cop" thing last night. I think that's what he did too. And then followed by "suicide by cop's son".


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

danterner said:


> I saw it as a callback to that guy who they left propped up under a tree near the end of the first season (can't remover his name; he spent a whole episode digging what turned out to be graves...). While he was feverish and dying, he kept having the same flashes of zombies. So this was the director choreographing that Shane was turning. Is that more dramatic and suspenseful than showing it differently, where in one cut he's dead and in the next he's seen undead and standing behind Rick, to be blown away by Carl moments later? I think it is a judgment call. I like the way it was done, personally.


What I found almost more interesting is how Shane's heavy breathing during his last encounter with Rick sounded subliminally (or not so subliminally) like zombie noises...I guess the point being, he was already the walking dead.


----------



## ihatecable (Apr 16, 2003)

EvilMidniteBombr said:


> Didn't take long for Shane to zombify. A lot less time that it took for Andrea's sister to change. I wonder if the virus (I think we can assume that's what causes the resurrection) has mutated? If it has, when will it start turning people that are near death? That would give a plausible scenario as to why Shane had become so unhinged.


If I recall correctly didn't the CDC guy say that the "resurrection event" could take place as little as 3 minuets and as long as 16 hours depending on the individual?


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

TiVotion said:


> Hopefully there will be a plausable explanation as to why the "walker metamorphosis" timeline has suddenly accelerated. Shane went from dead to zombie in no time. Ditto with what's his face, outsider kid.


Didn't Jenner tell them the metamorphosis from death to reanimation ranged from as little as 3 mins to as long as 9 hours or something like that? I would guess they used the low number for storyline purpose here and I'm okay with that.



cheesesteak said:


> I also wondered how Rick couldn't hear a growling and random noise making zombie right behind him and *when anybody was going to ask Darrell if it was ok if Carl kept his gun.*


If it's not returned to Darryl at the beginning of the next episode, I'm going to be looking for it to be a problem and for Darryl to almost die because of it before the episode is over.



Ekims said:


> Not sure if anyone caught it or not, but T-Dog had a speaking role in last night's episode.


 teehee



madscientist said:


> Remember there were two gunshots (Shane's gun went off when he was stabbed). And, the night before there was another gunshot (Dale's coup de grace). It could be that the zombies have been migrating towards the farmhouse for a while due to the noise but when the noise stops, they start wandering aimlessly until more noise starts them moving again. This time they were close enough to smell the blood and keep coming.


I could buy this except for the fact that we spent several scenes earlier this episode showing them all going around the fence-line killing off random zombies.

Overall, the exceeded my expectations. I did not think Shane would go out like that. I did read the stupid DVD thing from AMC's site so I knew Shane was a goner by season's end I just figured it would be in the finale. I honestly in my head thought after all his craziness they'd let him go out a hero or some such nonsense (i.e. saving Darryl from a zombie when his missing gun was needed or something). This was soooo much more satisfying. I do agree with whoever said they think Shane wanted Rick to kill him. I think he needed Rick to prove he was man enough to do what needs to be done and if Rick couldn't do that then he didn't deserve to live and have his family. The reanimation was a given with Carl shooting him only because sadly, I have, by mistake, read someone on this board referring to how Shane dies in the comics. Oh well.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

ihatecable said:


> If I recall correctly didn't the CDC guy say that the "resurrection event" could take place as little as 3 minuets and as long as 16 hours depending on the individual?


Damnit! I was creating my reply while you replied!


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Necromancer2006 said:


> Looked like a .45 that Carl had and the way he was holding it, there's no way he hits Shane at 20 meters, in the moonlight, square in the forehead. Why can't Carl just go away. Seriously - someone hand cuff him to a leash in the house and be done with him.


Did Carl shoot Shane in the forehead? Wouldn't that have destroyed his brain and prevented him from turning.

I didn't like Shane much at all but the home team is down two able bodied men in two days. That can't be a good thing.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

cheesesteak said:


> Did Carl shoot Shane in the forehead? Wouldn't that have destroyed his brain and prevented him from turning.


Are you asking about the comic because otherwise, I don't understand this question.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Carl shot Shane AFTER he turned, in the forehead, which kills zombies/walkers/whatever else you want to call them


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

MikeMar said:


> Carl shot Shane AFTER he turned, in the forehead, which kills zombies/walkers/whatever else you want to call them


Damn. That was a stupid question. My really dumb twin brother steaksandwich posted that under my userid.


----------



## Pralix (Dec 8, 2001)

My theory on the origin and life of the virius is this:

The virus was a pandemic that infected everyone. It killed most people it infected quickly. Those that survived had a natural resistance to it and kept it at bay until they die. Between infection and death, the virus battles the immune system and mutates. When death occurs, there is no immune system to stave off the virus and the infected becomes a zombie.

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Barmat (Jun 1, 2001)

Pralix said:


> My theory on the origin and life of the virius is this:
> 
> The virus was a pandemic that infected everyone. It killed most people it infected quickly. Those that survived had a natural resistance to it and kept it at bay until they die. Between infection and death, the virus battles the immune system and mutates. When death occurs, there is no immune system to stave off the virus and the infected becomes a zombie.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.


Sounds good to me. I don't try to hold zombie shows to close to reality because after all it's a ZOMBIE show. A little reality is good but nitpicking is just a waste.


----------



## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

They better explain this well because I really do not like this new reality that you don't even need a bite to become a walker/zombie.


----------



## ihatecable (Apr 16, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> Damnit! I was creating my reply while you replied!


lol, well you had more to write. 



cheesesteak said:


> I didn't like Shane much at all but the home team is down two able bodied men in two days. That can't be a good thing.


More like one able body man, I dont particularly remember Dale as that effective warding off zombies. Actually more like one able loose cannon as Shane was good in a fight but not so much after the fight.


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

photoshopgrl said:


> If it's not returned to Darryl at the beginning of the next episode, I'm going to be looking for it to be a problem and for Darryl to almost die because of it before the episode is over.
> 
> ...
> 
> I honestly in my head thought after all his craziness they'd let him go out a hero or some such nonsense (i.e. saving Darryl from a zombie when his missing gun was needed or something).


At least Darryl knows his gun is missing. He mentioned that he just wished he knew what happened to it.

There are enough guns around that he has probably replaced it already.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Didn't Shane steal/take a lot of the ammo and hide in the trunk of a car. Does anyone else know about this, is all that ammo essentially LOST???

That could easily come into play w/ a big zombie hoard coming at them.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Seriously....does Lori ever watch her damn son?!? WORST MOTHER EVER!


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

This may have been said, but I sure wish it was Lori that got infected and shot. I actually liked Shane and am going to miss him.


----------



## Mr. Merkin (May 6, 2005)

Yeah, did you notice the throw away line about there not being much ammo left in the RV? That was in there for a purpose, I bet it plays a big part in the final episode. I don't understand why they don't make more efforts at scavenging for ammo and supplies. All you would need was one gun store or police station and you would be set. If ammo is scarce, how about cutting down on all the target practice, ever think of that?


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Mr. Merkin said:


> Yeah, did you notice the throw away line about there not being much ammo left in the RV? That was in there for a purpose, I bet it plays a big part in the final episode. I don't understand why they don't make more efforts at scavenging for ammo and supplies. All you would need was one gun store or police station and you would be set. If ammo is scarce, how about cutting down on all the target practice, ever think of that?


Priority #1 for me would be guns and tons and tons of ammo, and maybe a silencer or two if you could get them.


----------



## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

Mr. Merkin said:


> Yeah, did you notice the throw away line about there not being much ammo left in the RV? That was in there for a purpose, I bet it plays a big part in the final episode. I don't understand why they don't make more efforts at scavenging for ammo and supplies. All you would need was one gun store or police station and you would be set. If ammo is scarce, how about cutting down on all the target practice, ever think of that?





MikeMar said:


> Priority #1 for me would be guns and tons and tons of ammo, and maybe a silencer or two if you could get them.


Unfortunately, everyone else has (or should have) the same priority so if you haven't hit the local Gander Mountain or Cabela's by now, chances are good it's already been raided. Look at how little was left at the pharmacy.

Guns & Ammunition, fuel, pharmaceuticals, foodstuffs, power. Probably in that order.


----------



## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

pmyers said:


> Seriously....does Lori ever watch her damn son?!? WORST MOTHER EVER!


Nobody ever watched me much as a kid. I remember going miles away from the house as a kid Carls age.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

zalusky said:


> Nobody ever watched me much as a kid. I remember going miles away from the house as a kid Carls age.


dear god, you were raised during a zombie apocalypse?


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

zalusky said:


> Nobody ever watched me much as a kid. I remember going miles away from the house as a kid Carls age.


at night, with zombies?


----------



## GameGuru (Dec 12, 2003)

cwoody222 said:


> They better explain this well because I really do not like this new reality that you don't even need a bite to become a walker/zombie.


This is a different take on the zombie lore, at least what we are speculating. Instead of the virus being transferred via a bite, saliva or blood this one was probably airborne and infected everyone! Once an someone dies they reanimate and are a zombie. When a zombie bites someone in this reality they are not infecting them, they are killing them. Then once dead they reanimate because EVERYONE is already infected. If this truly is what is happening I am sure there will be a future episode showing how everyone became infected.

I am hoping it was some kind of chemical warfare either by our country or another country.


----------



## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

I think the missing gun thing is over. It was used so Carl would have something to shoot Shane with and save his father. Darrell even has a new gun now, T-Dog gave him Dales gun at the pickup (when Darrell says he wishes he knew where his was)


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Ho-lee crap.

I had avoided most spoilers, so I had no idea Bernthal had been cast in a new pilot and thus would be exiting the show. So that was a suprise. 

And yes, it seems as if we have confirmation of what Jenner told Rick at the end of the S1: everyone already has the zombie virus inside them, and once you die, it reanimates you. So it's not the zombie bite that turns you into a zombie - all it does is kill you, which then kickstarts the zombie virus into high gear (in as little as 3 minutes and as along as 8 hours, according to Jenner in Ep 1.6). I'm going to presume that zombie bites are particularly filled with nasty bacteria or virus strains that speed along the whole dying process. Plus, they usually cause a whole lot of blood loss. 

(About the corpses in the cars in Ep 2.1 and why they weren't zombies, Kirkman did say that they were careful to show that they were in auto accidents or such that could have caused brain injuries. I'm going to take him at his word.)

As for the zombie herd closing in on the farm - my take on it is that there were already a fair amount wandering in the swamps, and now that the swamps and creeks were drying up, whatever natural barriers they provided were now gone, so they were probably going to hit on the farm sooner or later. Plus, we did see a cut scene where there a bunch of zombies meandering around one part of the swamp area right before the first gunshot (when Rick stabbed Shane, Shane's gun discharged). So that herd hears the gunshot and starts shambling toward the sound. We don't know how long Rick was sitting there thinking about what happened with Shane before Carl showed up, so the zombies may have had sometime to get closer. Then, Carl shoots Shane, and that spurs the zombie horde on even more.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

And no idea on their smelling distast, but Shane was walking around for a WHILE with blood all over his face/shirt from his nose breaking, so the Zombies COULD be smelling that.


----------



## jgmack1 (Oct 19, 2011)

Pralix said:


> My theory on the origin and life of the virius is this:
> 
> The virus was a pandemic that infected everyone. It killed most people it infected quickly. Those that survived had a natural resistance to it and kept it at bay until they die. Between infection and death, the virus battles the immune system and mutates. When death occurs, there is no immune system to stave off the virus and the infected becomes a zombie.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.


This is the best post I have so far read. It would explain much of what has been puzzling me.


----------



## jgmack1 (Oct 19, 2011)

betts4 said:


> This may have been said, but I sure wish it was Lori that got infected and shot. I actually liked Shane and am going to miss him.


I agree! Shane was being much more realisic about the situation than any of the others. I liked Shane a lot.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

DreadPirateRob said:


> ...(About the corpses in the cars in Ep 2.1 and why they weren't zombies, Kirkman did say that they were careful to show that they were in auto accidents or such that could have caused brain injuries. I'm going to take him at his word.)
> 
> As for the zombie herd closing in on the farm - my take on it is that there were already a fair amount wandering in the swamps, and now that the swamps and creeks were drying up, whatever natural barriers they provided were now gone, so they were probably going to hit on the farm sooner or later...


Couple of thoughts:
1. I don't think Kirkman did a good job then, because I don't remember it being obvious that they were killed via an accident.

2. I agree on your tank about the heard. They even had a scene with Herschel explaining such and how they better start preparing and moved everybody inside.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

GameGuru said:


> This is a different take on the zombie lore, at least what we are speculating. Instead of the virus being transferred via a bite, saliva or blood this one was probably airborne and infected everyone! Once an someone dies they reanimate and are a zombie. When a zombie bites someone in this reality they are not infecting them, they are killing them. Then once dead they reanimate because EVERYONE is already infected. *If this truly is what is happening I am sure there will be a future episode showing how everyone became infected.*
> 
> I am hoping it was some kind of chemical warfare either by our country or another country.


Speaking of flashbacks, I remember reading or seeing somewhere that this season would feature an episode that would show a flashback to the battle that took place in Atlanta while Rick was still in a coma. When Lori and Shane were talking about it in this episode, I figured that was the perfect segue into that flashback, but it didn't happen. I wonder if it got shot and then they just didn't have room to fit it in this episode, or if it will be in next week's finale.


DreadPirateRob said:


> (About the corpses in the cars in Ep 2.1 and why they weren't zombies, Kirkman did say that they were careful to show that they were in auto accidents or such that could have caused brain injuries. I'm going to take him at his word.)


I'd like to take him at his word, but it just doesn't make sense. Most of those cars on the freeway weren't wrecked. It wasn't a massive pileup that killed all the drivers and passengers immediately upon impact. Instead, most of the cars were spaced out like they'd come to a stop because the road was jammed, and then the people had somehow died while sitting in their cars. If they died in a car accident, the cars would be smashed up. If they died from someone coming around and inflicting brain trauma, wouldn't that someone have pillaged more of the supplies from all the cars? Basically, it just doesn't make sense, and sounds like they're now trying to retcon that episode to fit with the new reality.


----------



## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Speaking of flashbacks, I remember reading or seeing somewhere that this season would feature an episode that would show a flashback to the battle that took place in Atlanta while Rick was still in a coma. When Lori and Shane were talking about it in this episode, I figured that was the perfect segue into that flashback, but it didn't happen. I wonder if it got shot and then they just didn't have room to fit it in this episode, or if it will be in next week's finale.


They did that already - fairly early in the season. It was maybe 30 seconds long.


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

So if Lori's baby is stillborn, can it turn? That would be cool...in a dark sorta way.


----------



## PotentiallyCoherent (Jul 25, 2002)

Is season one available on Netflix?


----------



## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

PotentiallyCoherent said:


> Is season one available on Netflix?


yep


----------



## PotentiallyCoherent (Jul 25, 2002)

MonsterJoe said:


> yep


Thank you.


----------



## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> If they died in a car accident, the cars would be smashed up.


I view it as a budget issue. Rent a car: $100. Smash up car: $10,000.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

tivogurl said:


> I view it as a budget issue. Rent a car: $100. Smash up car: $10,000.


Of course. But don't try to claim that all these people died in a car accident if you show the cars and they haven't been in an accident. If it's your intention to later claim that all these people experienced some kind of brain trauma, then don't show us that all the cars are in perfect shape and that most of them weren't involved in any kind of accident.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> Of course. But don't try to claim that all these people died in a car accident if you show the cars and they haven't been in an accident. If it's your intention to later claim that all these people experienced some kind of brain trauma, then don't show us that all the cars are in perfect shape and that most of them weren't involved in any kind of accident.


I agree. I remember it looking like an abondoned traffic jam (with dead people in some of the cars). Nothing that would indicate any trauma.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

markz said:


> At least Darryl knows his gun is missing. He mentioned that he just wished he knew what happened to it.


How did I miss the entirely??


----------



## ihatecable (Apr 16, 2003)

pmyers said:


> I agree. I remember it looking like an abondoned traffic jam (with dead people in some of the cars). Nothing that would indicate any trauma.


Maybe they turned into walkers inside their cars but couldn't figure how to get out of the cars and then starved to death. BTW is there a consensus on how long it takes them to starve to death?


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

ihatecable said:


> Maybe they turned into walkers inside their cars but couldn't figure how to get out of the cars and then starved to death. BTW is there a consensus on how long it takes them to starve to death?


Are we even sure that's possible? Starve to death implies they are alive....


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

photoshopgrl said:


> How did I miss the entirely??


It was the scene where T-Dog hands Dale's old pistol to Daryl and says something like "You only have so many arrows".


----------



## tlc (May 30, 2002)

Peter000 said:


> well all that's required now is they lobotomize anyone who dies. I don't really see how this affects things very differently.


It affects things when someone dies in their sleep next to someone else!
People die in their homes all the time.



cheesesteak said:


> "Doesn't ANYBODY EVER watch this kid?"


:up: :up:


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

ihatecable said:


> Maybe they turned into walkers inside their cars but couldn't figure how to get out of the cars and then starved to death. BTW is there a consensus on how long it takes them to starve to death?





photoshopgrl said:


> Are we even sure that's possible? Starve to death implies they are alive....


I don't think they can starve to death. I don't think it's been shown that they digest the flesh they eat - I don't think that Jenner mentioned anything about the virus activating the stomach in addition to the brainstem when it reanimated the body. For some reason, the brainstem activation creates in the zombies the primal instinct to eat, but I think that's it.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

DreadPirateRob said:


> It was the scene where T-Dog hands Dale's old pistol to Daryl and says something like "You only have so many arrows".


Oh. I think I was so overwhelmed with T-Dog getting some lines that I didn't notice what they were actually saying.


----------



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

cheesesteak said:


> I also wondered how Rick couldn't hear a growling and random noise making zombie right behind him and when anybody was going to ask Darrell if it was ok if Carl kept his gun.


So this. Something is wrong w/Rick's hearing. He didn't hear Shane and (per the previews) doesn't hear a hoard of grunting Zombies until they are close up. 


pmyers said:


> Seriously....does Lori ever watch her damn son?!? WORST MOTHER EVER!


Ya think? I'm sick of her and Carl but will give the kid a pass. What possessed her to tell Shane that she didn't know who fathered her baby? 


betts4 said:


> This may have been said, but I sure wish it was Lori that got infected and shot.


Maybe she'll die in childbirth and put an end to our suffering. 


MikeMar said:


> And no idea on their smelling distast, but Shane was walking around for a WHILE with blood all over his face/shirt from his nose breaking, so the Zombies COULD be smelling that.


This gets to me also. Rick demonstrated how to kill a walker by using blood 2 episodes ago. Why would he make Shane cleanup or wrap his face before going out again.

Ok -- enough logic.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

gossamer88 said:


> Who taught Carl how to shoot like that?!


Why did Carl raise the gun towards Rick about 15 - 30 seconds BEFORE Shane Walker arose to the occasion?



pmyers said:


> *2. I agree on your tank about the heard.*


WTF does that mean?? Did you mean "I agree on your take on the herd [of walkers]"?


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

DreadPirateRob said:


> For some reason, the brainstem activation creates in the zombies the primal instinct to eat, but I think that's it.


Yet they are NOT eating junk food, canned goods, fruits and veggies, drinking soda or beer, etc. They also do not eat each other. They have an immediate and unquenching need for living human flesh. Why do you suppose that would be the case? Does it suggest that cannibalism is just human instinct/nature?


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

getreal said:


> pmyers said:
> 
> 
> > I agree on your tank about the heard.
> ...


I think he means that he heard you have a tank.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

The need for warm fresh flesh?

Now I am hungry. Grill time!


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

So wrong. And so gross. Yet, it's a nice day here finally and I can smell my neighbor grilling. Ugh. LOL


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

pmyers said:


> I agree. I remember it looking like an abondoned traffic jam (with dead people in some of the cars). Nothing that would indicate any trauma.


Exactly. The dead bodies that were still in the cars were gruesome, but that was presumably because they'd been decomposing for a month or more. There was no indication in those first couple of episodes that the cars had been in accidents or that the people had died due to any head trauma. I'd still like to have some kind of explanation as to why so many people just seemed to die instantly in their cars, without even getting out and looking around or seeking medical attention. If these people had died due to accident-induced trauma, not all of them would have been killed in the wrecks and there would have been signs of survivors trying to save the wounded, medical supplies, bandages, etc. But instead, it appeared that some kind of unseen force just killed all these people immediately, without them even having a chance to react.


----------



## NetJunkie (Feb 19, 2003)

getreal said:


> Yet they are NOT eating junk food, canned goods, fruits and veggies, drinking soda or beer, etc. They also do not eat each other. They have an immediate and unquenching need for living human flesh. Why do you suppose that would be the case? Does it suggest that cannibalism is just human instinct/nature?


They are eating animals...not just humans.


----------



## jgmack1 (Oct 19, 2011)

Maybe just before the virus was released something else occured that killed many people wherever that happened to be without leaving behind any visible sign of trauma.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> Exactly. The dead bodies that were still in the cars were gruesome, but that was presumably because they'd been decomposing for a month or more. There was no indication in those first couple of episodes that the cars had been in accidents or that the people had died due to any head trauma. I'd still like to have some kind of explanation as to why so many people just seemed to die instantly in their cars, without even getting out and looking around or seeking medical attention. If these people had died due to accident-induced trauma, not all of them would have been killed in the wrecks and there would have been signs of survivors trying to save the wounded, medical supplies, bandages, etc. But instead, it appeared that some kind of unseen force just killed all these people immediately, without them even having a chance to react.


Maybe the government made a "containment at all costs" decision at some point and decided to kill the people fleeing the city in an effort to prevent the contagion from spreading to other cities. Maybe the government gassed the line of fleeing cars, killing the fleeing drivers. If they died before being infected, they would just be left as corpses in their cars - collateral damage. I think I suggested as much in last episode's thread - I think I'm repeating myself. Seems like a logical thing to have happened, though, and it would explain the dead bodies in the cars more elegantly than "those cars were all in car accidents where the drivers suffered brain trauma."


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

danterner said:


> Seems like a logical thing to have happened, though, and it would explain the dead bodies in the cars more elegantly than "those cars were all in car accidents where the drivers suffered brain trauma."


Unfortunately, that's not the explanation the people who make she show are going with...


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Unfortunately, that's not the explanation the people who make she show are going with...


I know. Doesn't mean I have to like it. 

Anyone else notice that Carl was wearing a "Science Dog" t-shirt in this episode? He's worn it before (in the pilot episode, I think) but I don't recall seeing it since then. I don't discount the possibility that he's worn it every single episode and I just have missed it....


----------



## GameGuru (Dec 12, 2003)

Amnesia said:


> I think he means that he heard you have a tank.


No he was talking about Rick's poor hearing. Remember when he was in the tank in the first episode and shot off a round into the zombie in there and the sound was deafening. That is where Rick's hearing was hurt.


----------



## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

ihatecable said:


> If I recall correctly didn't the CDC guy say that the "resurrection event" could take place as little as 3 minuets and as long as 16 hours depending on the individual?


You're right. I had forgotten about that. So I pulled up that episode (TS-19) on Netflix. The CDC doc did say that she was bitten and infected."Resurrection times vary wildly. We have reports of it happening in as little as 3 minutes. The longest we heard of was 8 hours."

He also said it invades the brain while still alive. So that could be part of the reason Shane was going off the rails so quickly.



GameGuru said:


> No he was talking about Rick's poor hearing. Remember when he was in the tank in the first episode and shot off a round into the zombie in there and the sound was deafening. That is where Rick's hearing was hurt.


Not to mention, Shane got off a shot just a few feet from Rick's ear while Rick was stabbing him. That will definitely have an effect on short term hearing. Add that to all the shooting they've done without ear protection.


----------



## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

I just rewatched the first episode of season 2 where they come across the traffic jam. They only showed 4 dead bodies inside cars. The vast majority of the cars were empty. There were also several crashed and/or flipped over cars. We didn't get a good enough look at the vehicles with bodies in them to tell whether or not they were involved in crashes but I think the explanation given fits what is shown.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

WhiskeyTango said:


> I just rewatched the first episode of season 2 where they come across the traffic jam. They only showed 4 dead bodies inside cars. The vast majority of the cars were empty. There were also several crashed and/or flipped over cars. We didn't get a good enough look at the vehicles with bodies in them to tell whether or not they were involved in crashes but I think the explanation given fits what is shown.


I remember most of the cars seemed to be in perfect shape, and I thought there were bodies in most of the cars, but I'll take your word for it, since I haven't seen that episode since it aired.


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

WhiskeyTango said:


> I just rewatched the first episode of season 2 where they come across the traffic jam. They only showed 4 dead bodies inside cars. The vast majority of the cars were empty. There were also several crashed and/or flipped over cars. We didn't get a good enough look at the vehicles with bodies in them to tell whether or not they were involved in crashes but I think the explanation given fits what is shown.





DevdogAZ said:


> I remember most of the cars seemed to be in perfect shape, and I thought there were bodies in most of the cars, but I'll take your word for it, since I haven't seen that episode since it aired.


I remember that we only saw a few corpses. In fact, I can only remember seeing one very clearly, and that was the one Carl (?) tried to get something off the body.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

DreadPirateRob said:


> I remember that we only saw a few corpses. In fact, I can only remember seeing one very clearly, and that was the one Carl (?) tried to get something off the body.


The knife set, right?

Did we also see some corpses in the cars at the gas station in the pilot episode, where Rick shoots the little girl? I can't remember but for some reason I think so.


----------



## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

DreadPirateRob said:


> I remember that we only saw a few corpses. In fact, I can only remember seeing one very clearly, and that was the one Carl (?) tried to get something off the body.


The first one they came across was in the back seat of an SUV just as they were pulling into the carnage. The second was a passenger in a car that Lori and Carol saw while walking around scavenging. The third was the one Carl took the cache of blades from and the fourth was one that Darryl pulled out of a car to cover himself with when the horde was moving through. T-Dog was covered with a walker that Darryl had just killed after T-Dog slashed his arm open on one of the wrecked cars while trying to hide.

Most of the cars were in tact and many of them had their doors open, as if they had all made a run for it on foot.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

cheesesteak said:


> "Doesn't ANYBODY EVER watch this kid.


I screamed at the TV when he came walking up--in the dark with zombies and the escaped prisoner on the loose. At one point someone said to him "what are you doing out here all alone?" all I could think was, he's always wandering around in a dangerous place all alone. This is bad writing IMO.



Maui said:


> I thought it was interesting that Shane was going to shoot Rick in the middle of an open field instead of the seclusion of the woods.
> .


I assumed that he left the kid's body there, since he planned to say that he choked him after he killed Rick. Good plan if it had stayed put. 



Necromancer2006 said:


> I don't think there's any doubt anymore about needing to be bit/scratched. I really want to know now what the CDC guy told Rick.


Yeah, obviously it wasn't that. And it didn't seem to be that his wife was pregnant either. So what? Some big reveal next week?



Mr. Merkin said:


> If ammo is scarce, how about cutting down on all the target practice, ever think of that?


Which brings up the point that they've been firing guns around there all along--now 2 shots brings a hoard? I guess I'll buy the drying up of the swamp.



DreadPirateRob said:


> It was the scene where T-Dog hands Dale's old pistol to Daryl and says something like "You only have so many arrows".


Yep, I totally missed this too.


----------



## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

danterner said:


> The knife set, right?
> 
> Did we also see some corpses in the cars at the gas station in the pilot episode, where Rick shoots the little girl? I can't remember but for some reason I think so.


Just checked. They showed two bodies in cars at the gas station. At that point it looked like that area had been set up as a camp where people were living (tents, personal belongings strewn, etc.) so those two could have died from just about anything.

Interesting note. In S2 Ep1, Dale is showing Glenn how to fix the blown radiator hose. Glenn gives Dale a phillips head screwdriver and Dale says something like "With the radiator hose it's always a flathead. Maybe you'll learn something." Fast forward to the last episode with Glenn fixing the hose again at the farm and he tells Maggie the same thing Dale taught him. I thought it was a nice little nod/rememberance of Dale. It's something I would have never picked up on had I not just rewatched the earlier episode.


----------



## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

Daryl is becoming my favorite character. He saw right through Shane's BS, he gets the best lines, and said the perfect things (IMO) in the scene on the porch with Rick. He definitely let Rick know that he was the one who would have his back. 

Rick doubting himself because he couldn't shoot Dale? "You shouldn't have to do all the heavy lifting." Rick looking for agreement on his decision to free Randall? Daryl doesn't answer him directly, but "I'm not going to trade blows on the side of the road over it." And of course when Shane pulls up "I'm gonna go take a p**s."


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Speaking of flashbacks, I remember reading or seeing somewhere that this season would feature an episode that would show a flashback to the battle that took place in Atlanta while Rick was still in a coma. When Lori and Shane were talking about it in this episode, I figured that was the perfect segue into that flashback, but it didn't happen. I wonder if it got shot and then they just didn't have room to fit it in this episode, or if it will be in next week's finale.





MonsterJoe said:


> They did that already - fairly early in the season. It was maybe 30 seconds long.


The original show runner (Frank Whats-his-name, who has since left the show) has said he wanted to do a whole episode that was a flash back to what happened in Atlanta. The show would follow the soldier that Rick found in the tank in Episode 1. But after he left, and the shows budget was drastically cut, that idea was jettisoned and all we got was a 20 second view of Atlanta 'at battle', from a far distance.

EDIT: Linky


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

MacThor said:


> Daryl is becoming my favorite character....


His character is being developed very nicely, and I'm liking him more and more.

One example of the broad demographic attraction of this show -- it's one of my favorites, and my 28-year-old son also loves it.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

I am really liking the second half of the season. I wonder how much of what we are seeing is Mazarra getting credit for knocking down the pins Darabont laboriously set up, versus how much of the positive change can truly be credited to Mazarra deviating from the course Darabont had set. In other words, I wonder how different a Darabont back half would have been from this. Season Three should be telling.


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

photoshopgrl said:


> Oh. I think I was so overwhelmed with T-Dog getting some lines that I didn't notice what they were actually saying.





stellie93 said:


> Yep, I totally missed this too.


Reminds me of EF Hutton...

"When T-Dog speaks... NOBODY listens!"


----------



## ihatecable (Apr 16, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> Are we even sure that's possible? Starve to death implies they are alive....


more like animated, which means they need to be metabolizing something to remain animated. That and $2.5 will get you on the subway here in NYC,lol


----------



## mchasal (Jun 6, 2001)

getreal said:


> Why did Carl raise the gun towards Rick about 15 - 30 seconds BEFORE Shane Walker arose to the occasion?


My take on that is that all he sees that Rick killed Shane. Carl has love for both of them, and might even feel a bit closer to Shane than he does his father. His initial reaction could have been either, "Why did you kill my Other-Daddy?!?!", or "Oh no, my Daddy's a walker now!". Then he shot Shane when realizing he had turned and Rick was still human. He wanted to end Shane's misery, and had learned the lesson from Dale's death to not let a walker go.

I think this is still unresolved and Carl may harbor some resentment towards Rick that might come up later, even if Rick's explanation of the events is generally accepted by the group.


----------



## ihatecable (Apr 16, 2003)

But on a more serious note if they get out of this they should capture a walker and see how long is can last without feeding. A long term survival plan may be to wait it out in a secure compound and see if the walkers starve to death. Also Rick was talking about the cold weather effecting them.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

ihatecable said:


> ...they should capture a walker and see how long is can last without feeding....


Wasn't that done with all the walkers in the barn? They seemed to be surviving just fine...


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

everybody knows zombies can't starve, right?


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Bierboy said:


> Wasn't that done with all the walkers in the barn? They seemed to be surviving just fine...


But they fed them chickens or whatever they did


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Bierboy said:


> Wasn't that done with all the walkers in the barn? They seemed to be surviving just fine...


They were feeding them chicken.

The tank zombie seems to suggest that they can lay totally dormant for a good while, though. I don't think he had any visitors prior to Rick.


----------



## rimler (Jun 30, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> Wasn't that done with all the walkers in the barn? They seemed to be surviving just fine...


They were feeding the walkers live chickens.


----------



## ihatecable (Apr 16, 2003)

I was thinking weeks, maybe a couple of months. The problem is that there always seems to be a fresh supply of new walkers


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

pmyers said:


> everybody knows zombies can't starve, right?


Everybody here.

But they live in a world with no zombie movies.


----------



## ihatecable (Apr 16, 2003)

I was also thinking this may change funeral services in the walking dead world. No matter how you die, your corpse ends up with an axe to the head before they bury you.


----------



## Gerryex (Apr 24, 2004)

WhiskeyTango said:


> Interesting note. In S2 Ep1, Dale is showing Glenn how to fix the blown radiator hose. Glenn gives Dale a phillips head screwdriver and Dale says something like "With the radiator hose it's always a flathead. Maybe you'll learn something." *Fast forward to the last episode with Glenn fixing the hose again at the farm and he tells Maggie the same thing Dale taught him.* I thought it was a nice little nod/rememberance of Dale. It's something I would have never picked up on had I not just rewatched the earlier episode.


I hate to nit pick, but the engine would not start and a broken hose would not stop the engine from starting. Then Glenn says that Dale told him that the points often get dirty and that's what he fixed to get the engine to start. Still a nice nod to Dale, but not the same repair!

Gerry


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

rimler said:


> They were feeding the walkers live chickens.


Ah...forgot that...


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

ihatecable said:


> Maybe they turned into walkers inside their cars but couldn't figure how to get out of the cars and then starved to death.


They weren't walkers. That's why people are discussing the inconsistency of the dead bodies in the traffic jam and the new information that everyone turns when they die.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

WhiskeyTango said:


> The first one they came across was in the back seat of an SUV just as they were pulling into the carnage. The second was a passenger in a car that Lori and Carol saw while walking around scavenging. The third was the one Carl took the cache of blades from and the fourth was one that Darryl pulled out of a car to cover himself with when the horde was moving through. T-Dog was covered with a walker that Darryl had just killed after T-Dog slashed his arm open on one of the wrecked cars while trying to hide.
> 
> Most of the cars were in tact and many of them had their doors open, as if they had all made a run for it on foot.


Was there a dead child in a car seat? I seem to remember one, but I haven't watched it since it first aired. I'm not buying the "they all had head trauma retcon".


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Gerryex said:


> I hate to nit pick...


Boy, are YOU in the wrong place! 

Rob H., with a PhD in nitpicking


----------



## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

Did we really have to have a whole show dedicated to T-Dog?


----------



## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

I can't get past how quickly people heal here. After Rick pulled the guy off the iron fence he said that he should be walking in a week. What??? And Carl. BTW what was wrong with the sister when she was in that state? It didn't even seem unusual to everyone and now she's fine (for her).


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I think in general they have a problem keeping track of the time-frame. The entire series has taken place over an incredibly short span, and it seems like they lose sight of that at times. "Well, it's been six months since we shot the scene where Carl got shot, so he should be fine by now." Forgetting that on the show, it's only been a matter of days.

Another problem I think I see is a failure to see how the written word translates to the screen. There are all kinds of instances where something just doesn't make sense (e.g., the zombie sneaking up on Dale). It probably looked fine in the script, but when they shot it they didn't take the trouble to work out how those words would play out in that physical reality (maybe the writer of that scene imagined it was in a much more constrained location, and the director shot it in an open field without thinking about how weird it is that a zombie can appear out of nowhere like that, from the direction Dale came from).

Overall, I'd say it's a lack of attention to detail.


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Boy, are YOU in the wrong place!
> 
> Rob H., with a PhD in nitpicking


Indeed. After all, your former user ID was NitpickGuy.


----------



## tlc (May 30, 2002)

mchasal said:


> My take on that is that all he sees that Rick killed Shane. Carl has love for both of them, and might even feel a bit closer to Shane than he does his father. His initial reaction could have been either, "Why did you kill my Other-Daddy?!?!", or "Oh no, my Daddy's a walker now!". Then he shot Shane when realizing he had turned and Rick was still human. He wanted to end Shane's misery, and had learned the lesson from Dale's death to not let a walker go.


Or maybe he missed his target. 

Finally, there's going to be a reason to leave the farm!


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> ...Another problem I think I see is a failure to see how the written word translates to the screen. There are all kinds of instances where something just doesn't make sense (e.g., the zombie sneaking up on Dale). It probably looked fine in the script, but when they shot it they didn't take the trouble to work out how those words would play out in that physical reality (maybe the writer of that scene imagined it was in a much more constrained location, and the director shot it in an open field without thinking about how weird it is that a zombie can appear out of nowhere like that, from the direction Dale came from).
> 
> Overall, I'd say it's a lack of attention to detail.


Yeah, I just don't get this. Don't they screen the entire episode segment by segment to make sure it all "makes sense" before they piece it together in post-production?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Indeed. After all, your former user ID was NitpickGuy.


Don't make me get all...

Oh, never mind.


----------



## ihatecable (Apr 16, 2003)

Well if we are going to start nitpicking shouldn't have Zombie Randell been paralyzed since Shane broke his neck?


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

So maybe the virus has an added side affect of rapid healing? /shrug lol

That has always bothered me about this show, too.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

My guess (and hope) is that, when Season 3 starts, we will have bypassed winter in the farmhouse, and it'll be spring. I can't stand another season (or half season) at the farmhouse...

The other thing now is that our group missed a golden opportunity to find the other group's location (which Randall had revealed to Shane) but Shane dies before telling anyone.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Bierboy said:


> My guess (and hope) is that, when Season 3 starts, we will have bypassed winter in the farmhouse, and it'll be spring. I can't stand another season (or half season) at the farmhouse...
> 
> The other thing now is that our group missed a golden opportunity to find the other group's location (which Randall had revealed to Shane) but Shane dies before telling anyone).


The barbarous group is only 5 miles away. They are coming.


----------



## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Bierboy said:


> My guess (and hope) is that, when Season 3 starts, we will have bypassed winter in the farmhouse, and it'll be spring. I can't stand another season (or half season) at the farmhouse....





tiams said:


> The barbarous group is only 5 miles away. They are coming.


I think with the horde of zombies coming to the farm house, they won't be at the house at the end of the next episode. If anything, the gang of 30 might actually provide salvation for our group.


----------



## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

I don't know who brought up the problem with Carl wearing Rick's hat but it's bugging the crap out of me now! I also want to know how an adult sized hat all of a sudden perfectly fits a 10-12 year old kid!


----------



## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I think in general they have a problem keeping track of the time-frame. The entire series has taken place over an incredibly short span, and it seems like they lose sight of that at times. "Well, it's been six months since we shot the scene where Carl got shot, so he should be fine by now." Forgetting that on the show, it's only been a matter of days.


What I mean is that Rick actually said, "he should be walking in a week" or something to that effect.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

EvilMidniteBombr said:


> I don't know who brought up the problem with Carl wearing Rick's hat but it's bugging the crap out of me now! I also want to know how an adult sized hat all of a sudden perfectly fits a 10-12 year old kid!


They stuffed newspaper in it.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Velcro...


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

robojerk said:


> ... If anything, the gang of 30 might actually provide salvation for our group.


 ...and then rape the women?


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

tiams said:


> They stuffed newspaper in it.


'Tussin


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

MikeMar said:


> 'Tussin


They explicitly mentioned the newspaper, i wasn't being flippant.


----------



## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

tiams said:


> They explicitly mentioned the newspaper, i wasn't being flippant.


Did they really? I don't remember that but I'll take your word for it. Even if they did stuff it with newspaper, it won't change the size of the hat. the headband fits him snug. Look at the closeups of him with the hat on.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

I was saying the 'Tussin in regards to him healing so fast.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

robojerk said:


> I think with the horde of zombies coming to the farm house, they won't be at the house at the end of the next episode. If anything, the gang of 30 might actually provide salvation for our group.


Or the group of 30 arrive shortly after the horde and end up providing the needed reinforcements!

probably not


----------



## Martin Tupper (Dec 18, 2003)

I'm still not necessarily sold on everyone being infected. Shane could have gotten infected a few episodes back when, while wedging himself in the school bus door, he cut his own hand with the knife he'd just used to lobotomize a few walkers.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

And Randall? And the two guards at the school? In both cases, the characters clearly pointed out that the bodies didn't show any bite marks.


----------



## Martin Tupper (Dec 18, 2003)

Amnesia said:


> And Randall? And the two guards at the school? In both cases, the characters clearly pointed out that the bodies didn't show any bite marks.


Fluid splatter from close combat with a walker could be sufficient to infect. We did see Randall involved in some "wet ops" with that female walker.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

btw...I did like seeing that big "lake" on the property last episode. Helped to show that water isn't an issue on the farm.


----------



## Tsiehta (Jul 22, 2002)

I knew I knew the term "Better Angels" from somewhere. Even better that I ended up reading a speech from Abraham Lincoln.

http://www.bartleby.com/124/pres31.html

" I am loath to close. We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory, stretching from every battlefield and patriot grave to every living heart and hearthstone all over this broad land, will yet swell the chorus of the Union, when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature."


----------



## Pralix (Dec 8, 2001)

Martin Tupper said:


> I'm still not necessarily sold on everyone being infected. Shane could have gotten infected a few episodes back when, while wedging himself in the school bus door, he cut his own hand with the knife he'd just used to lobotomize a few walkers.


I have a feeling that in some later episode, we will find that Lori's baby is not infected. That will be the "hope" for the show.


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

pmyers said:


> btw...I did like seeing that big "lake" on the property last episode. Helped to show that water isn't an issue on the farm.


I think they've mentioned before that the farm has multiple wells for water. It was brought up when they found that zombie at the bottom of the one well.


----------



## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

You know what I'd like to see? Rival zombie hordes fighting each other! Just imagine a gang of 30-40 of them coming over that hill towards the farm, and suddenly out of nowhere, West Coast representin' zombie horde swoops in and there's a full scale battle between zombie factions.

At the point it breaks out into West Side Story, though...I'm out.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Jeeters said:


> I think they've mentioned before that the farm has multiple wells for water. It was brought up when they found that zombie at the bottom of the one well.


Yeah, they're not gonna use a lake for drinking water...


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Pralix said:


> I have a feeling that in some later episode, we will find that Lori's baby is not infected. That will be the "hope" for the show.


I hope this isn't a spoiler from the comics.


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

tiams said:


> I hope this isn't a spoiler from the comics.


It's not


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

DreadPirateRob said:


> It's not


I hope that's not, either.


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

I see what you did there.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Jeeters said:


> I hope that's not, either.


In many ways, spoilers from the comics is becoming less of an issue as the TV series diverges from it. There are things going on in the show that do not have analogs in the comics, for whatever reason.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

EvilMidniteBombr said:


> I don't know who brought up the problem with Carl wearing Rick's hat but it's bugging the crap out of me now! I also want to know how an adult sized hat all of a sudden perfectly fits a 10-12 year old kid!


Sorry. 


TiVotion said:


> You know what I'd like to see? Rival zombie hordes fighting each other! Just imagine a gang of 30-40 of them coming over that hill towards the farm, and suddenly out of nowhere, West Coast representin' zombie horde swoops in and there's a full scale battle between zombie factions.
> 
> At the point it breaks out into West Side Story, though...I'm out.


Didn't Michael Jackson already make that movie in 1984? I believe it was called something like, "Thriller."


----------



## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

EvilMidniteBombr said:


> I don't know who brought up the problem with Carl wearing Rick's hat but it's bugging the crap out of me now! I also want to know how an adult sized hat all of a sudden perfectly fits a 10-12 year old kid!


Give it another week and he'll be 18.

I'm with the poster who thought the episode was going to be a total dud for a while in the beginning. It turned around. I was surprised about Shane. Wow. Not that I'm not ok with it, but it was a shock all the same. I never thought there was any way Rick was getting killed off but I get the thing that Shane just wanted out.

Finale s/b explosive. Sad to see the season ending already.


----------



## jgmack1 (Oct 19, 2011)

Martin Tupper said:


> Fluid splatter from close combat with a walker could be sufficient to infect. We did see Randall involved in some "wet ops" with that female walker.


People have had walkers laying on them, almost buried under a pile. On top of that everytime they smash a walker's head to a pulp they get spattered. They take no precautions to avoid this. Is anything more strange in the post-apocalyptic world than the fact that Rick's hat fits his son's head so well? And that lack of continuity editors are employed. Why are people not going completely insane?


----------



## Johnny Dancing (Sep 3, 2000)

In a show about zombies the last thing I am worried about is that the hat looks like it fits well with newspaper stuffed in it. *Put a bullet in the kid's head and lets see how it fits.* That would be interesting, a zombie boy wearing a sheriff's hat.

I do like that zombie reanimation from the dead _kind of _explains my big question, how could these slow moving and very non contagious zombies have defeated the military? The Zombie team gets instant inside agents when someone dies... Still there has to be huge pockets of people all over the place who figured things out and gated the zombies out and chop off the head of people who just die. (I wouldn't want to be in a house where someone dies of a heart attack in their sleep though)

It makes no sense that nearly everyone is gone unless we don't know everything yet.


----------



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

jgmack1 said:


> People have had walkers laying on them, almost buried under a pile. On top of that everytime they smash a walker's head to a pulp they get spattered. They take no precautions to avoid this.


Also, there is that early episode where they covered themselves with "Walker guts' to escape. If it was a a "28 Day Later" virus, they'd all have turned by now.


----------



## Martin Tupper (Dec 18, 2003)

jgmack1 said:


> People have had walkers laying on them, almost buried under a pile. On top of that everytime they smash a walker's head to a pulp they get spattered. They take no precautions to avoid this. Is anything more strange in the post-apocalyptic world than the fact that Rick's hat fits his son's head so well? And that lack of continuity editors are employed. Why are people not going completely insane?





Beryl said:


> Also, there is that early episode where they covered themselves with "Walker guts' to escape. If it was a a "28 Day Later" virus, they'd all have turned by now.


I did not mean to imply that the virus would directly kill the infected (or drive them insane). Perhaps some survivors (like Shane and most of the group) were infected during close contact with walkers. They could now be carriers of the virus, so that when they do eventually die, by whatever means, they will resurrect.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Martin Tupper said:


> I did not mean to imply that the virus would directly kill the infected (or drive them insane). Perhaps some survivors (like Shane and most of the group) were infected during close contact with walkers. They could now be carriers of the virus, so that when they do eventually die, by whatever means, they will resurrect.


What about the "CDC whisper," though? Do you think, after testing all of their blood, he whispered something like "one or two of you already have it"? Or even "most of you already have it"? I don't - that's actionable information and Rick would have done something about it (maybe). I think the whisper was "everyone already has it" - that's not actionable, because what's the point of action with news like that? There are only two ways to respond to that sort of situation: (1) Blow everything up because there's no hope (the choice of the CDC guy), or (2) keep on keeping on, and keep the news to yourself as long as you can, to allow the other "walking dead" continued hope, however false it may be. And if someone around you dies without having sustained brain trauma, make sure you give them some brain trauma to keep them from coming back (like what Rick did in the bar, when he put the final and otherwise unnecessary bullet in the head of the pissing fat guy after having already killed him pretty thoroughly.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

danterner said:


> What about the "CDC whisper," though? Do you think, after testing all of their blood, he whispered something like "one or two of you already have it"? I don't - that's actionable information and Rick would have done something about it (maybe). I think the whisper was "everyone already has it" - that's not actionable, because what's the point of action with news like that? There are only two ways to respond to that sort of situation: (1) Blow everything up (the choice o the CDC guy), or (2) keep on keeping on, and keep the news to yourself as long as you can, to allow the other "walking dead" continued hope. And if someone around you dies without having sustained brain trauma, make sure you give them some brain trauma to keep them from coming back (like what Rick did in the bar, when he put the final and otherwise unnecessary bullet in the head of the pissing fat guy after having already killed him pretty thoroughly.


In regards to the bar shooting, 2 things that can contradict you.

The first shot didn't fully kill him, so he put a bullet in his head so the guy wouldn't shoot him (even if it was a long shot)
Also, he doesn't know if a Walker goes and bites the guy now if they leave, he could be 99% dead and come back as a Walker himself, so eliminate that risk.

Both of those scenerios can be played out w/o that guy or everyone already having the virus.


----------



## Martin Tupper (Dec 18, 2003)

danterner said:


> What about the "CDC whisper," though? Do you think, after testing all of their blood, he whispered something like "one or two of you already have it"? Or even "most of you already have it"? I don't - that's actionable information and Rick would have done something about it (maybe). I think the whisper was "everyone already has it" - that's not actionable, because what's the point of action with news like that? There are only two ways to respond to that sort of situation: (1) Blow everything up because there's no hope (the choice of the CDC guy), or (2) keep on keeping on, and keep the news to yourself as long as you can, to allow the other "walking dead" continued hope, however false it may be. And if someone around you dies without having sustained brain trauma, make sure you give them some brain trauma to keep them from coming back (like what Rick did in the bar, when he put the final and otherwise unnecessary bullet in the head of the pissing fat guy after having already killed him pretty thoroughly.


Whether the whisper was "all of you already have it" or "some of you already have it", the "actionability" is the same. [Rick] would have been warned to expect that _anyone _would/could resurrect, regardless of how he/she ultimately dies.

If the scientist told him which specific group member(s) tested positive for infection, then that could be actionable.

However, if the scientist already knew that the entire populous was already infected, then why did he bother testing the group at all?


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Martin Tupper said:


> However, *if the scientist already knew that the entire populous was already infected*, then why did he bother testing the group at all?


How could he be expected to know that? He might have known that all the personnel at the CDC were infected and perhaps the soldiers protecting the lab, but I don't think the infrastructure was in place to do random sampling of the greater Atlanta population (much less the people in rural areas).


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Amnesia said:


> How could he be expected to know that? He might have known that all the personnel at the CDC were infected and perhaps the soldiers protecting the lab, but I don't think the infrastructure was in place to do random sampling of the greater Atlanta population (much less the people in rural areas).


Exactly. And he hadn't wandered outside the CDC to test anyone else.


----------



## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

betts4 said:


> Exactly. And he hadn't wandered outside the CDC to test anyone else.


For some amount of time didn't he have communications with other CDC/WHO offices? I thought he mentioned that.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Johnny Dancing said:


> ...I do like that zombie reanimation from the dead _kind of _explains my big question, how could these slow moving and very non contagious zombies have defeated the military?...


I would HIGLY recommend you read World War Z (which is mentioned in just about every episode thread) to illustrate how easy it was for the military to be overrun by an undead army.


----------



## mchasal (Jun 6, 2001)

Amnesia said:


> How could he be expected to know that? He might have known that all the personnel at the CDC were infected and perhaps the soldiers protecting the lab, but I don't think the infrastructure was in place to do random sampling of the greater Atlanta population (much less the people in rural areas).


Perhaps he knows the virus is airborne and has a long lifespan or somesuch? It's true he couldn't factually say that everyone is infected, but something that was highly contagious, didn't kill the hosts quickly, and could linger outside the host for a while could get you to that "statistical everybody". The CDC should have all the tools to do those fancy projections on the maps with the evil red clouds that expand dramatically.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

zordude said:


> For some amount of time didn't he have communications with other CDC/WHO offices? I thought he mentioned that.


Yes, but what could they have added to the discussion? They could test the people at the labs, but even if they were all infected, I don't think that provides enough information to make educated guesses about the population as a whole.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

He's a scientist. He's going to want to test everybody to A) confirm the hypothesis; and B) see if anybody is immune.


----------



## jgmack1 (Oct 19, 2011)

What I mean by going insane, is that I believe many of the surviving humans in the situation they are now in would quickly lose their mind. It seems almost impossible to deal with life the way it now is. I believe that people would be far more likely to behave as the group of 30 does, rather than how Ricks group carries on.


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

danterner said:


> What about the "CDC whisper," though? Do you think, after testing all of their blood, he whispered something like "one or two of you already have it"? Or even "most of you already have it"? I don't - that's actionable information and Rick would have done something about it (maybe). I think the whisper was "everyone already has it" - that's not actionable, because what's the point of action with news like that? There are only two ways to respond to that sort of situation: (1) Blow everything up because there's no hope (the choice of the CDC guy), or (2) keep on keeping on, and keep the news to yourself as long as you can, to allow the other "walking dead" continued hope, however false it may be. And if someone around you dies without having sustained brain trauma, make sure you give them some brain trauma to keep them from coming back (like what Rick did in the bar, when he put the final and otherwise unnecessary bullet in the head of the pissing fat guy after having already killed him pretty thoroughly.


If the CDC guy told Rick everyone is infected, Rick would not have just stabbed Shane in the belly and walked away. He would have also stabbed/shot him in the head.

And I don't think he would have backed down from shooting Dale in the head.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

pmyers said:


> I would HIGLY recommend you read World War Z (which is mentioned in just about every episode thread) to illustrate how easy it was for the military to be overrun by an undead army.


Just finished that last week, for sure a must read for zombie fans and fans of this show.


----------



## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

markz said:


> If the CDC guy told Rick everyone is infected, Rick would not have just stabbed Shane in the belly and walked away. He would have also stabbed/shot him in the head.
> 
> And I don't think he would have backed down from shooting Dale in the head.


His confrontation with Shane required a quick kill, stabbing Shane in the heart seemed liked the quickest way, moving up to his cranium could have meant Shane could have dodged or evaded the stabbing.

If the CDC guy told him that everyone was all ready infected, Rick could be doubting that news and decided to wait and see if Shane turned. He also may not be ready to break the news to everyone else.

I think Rick pausing to kill Dale could be just fatigue. He took care of Sophia, is fighting with Shane, may have news that they're all infected already.. Give the guy a break.


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

robojerk said:


> His confrontation with Shane required a quick kill, stabbing Shane in the heart seemed liked the quickest way, moving up to his cranium could have meant Shane could have dodged or evaded the stabbing.
> 
> If the CDC guy told him that everyone was all ready infected, Rick could be doubting that news and decided to wait and see if Shane turned. He also may not be ready to break the news to everyone else.
> 
> I think Rick pausing to kill Dale could be just fatigue. He took care of Sophia, is fighting with Shane, may have news that they're all infected already.. Give the guy a break.


I know the quick reaction was the stab to the belly. I think he would have followed that with a head shot. If he was told it could take anywhere from 3 minutes to some amount of hours to change, he would not have walked away from Shane without securing him or finishing him, or at least watching his back as he walked away.

As for Sophia, she was already a walker, so there was no question in his mind she needed to be shot in the head.


----------



## Martin Tupper (Dec 18, 2003)

Amnesia said:


> How could he be expected to know that? He might have known that all the personnel at the CDC were infected and perhaps the soldiers protecting the lab, but I don't think the infrastructure was in place to do random sampling of the greater Atlanta population (much less the people in rural areas).


The scientist would reasonably be expected to know whether the virus is airborne or not. If it's not, then the entire population couldn't have it, could they?


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Martin Tupper said:


> The scientist would reasonably be expected to know whether the virus is airborne or not. If it's not, then the entire population couldn't have it, could they?


Yes, I agree that it's possible for the scientist to know that the entire population *couldn't* have it. (All it would take is one person at the CDC to be virus-free.)

But you suggested that perhaps the scientist knew that the entire population *did* have it. That's a very different thing. For example, even if the virus were airborne, that doesn't mean it is necessarily ubiquitous.


----------



## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

markz said:


> I know the quick reaction was the stab to the belly. I think he would have followed that with a head shot. If he was told it could take anywhere from 3 minutes to some amount of hours to change, he would not have walked away from Shane without securing him or finishing him, or at least watching his back as he walked away.
> 
> As for Sophia, she was already a walker, so there was no question in his mind she needed to be shot in the head.


The guy just killed his BFF, his sons godfather, partner, etc... Give him a break for not thinking rationally.. Either he was just super emotional at the moment, felling guilt and was trying to figure out how to break the news to the group, waiting to see if Shane tuned, or a combination of the above.


----------



## pcguru83 (Jan 18, 2005)

pmyers said:


> I would HIGLY recommend you read World War Z (which is mentioned in just about every episode thread) to illustrate how easy it was for the military to be overrun by an undead army.


Slightly off topic: I had a really hard time getting into this book. Does it start out slow, or am I just missing something?


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

markz said:


> If the CDC guy told Rick everyone is infected, Rick would not have just stabbed Shane in the belly and walked away. He would have also stabbed/shot him in the head.
> 
> And I don't think he would have backed down from shooting Dale in the head.


I think Rick was not quite in his right mind after killing Shane. I'm sure he was still grieving, and then when Carl showed up and was pointing a gun at him, his mind wasn't exactly on how fast Shane was going to turn.

As for Dale - he didn't back down, he was just overwhelmed. As the leader of the group, anytime something bad goes down, it's on him. I'm sure he would have ended up shooting Dale if Daryl hadn't stepped up.


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

pcguru83 said:


> Slightly off topic: I had a really hard time getting into this book. Does it start out slow, or am I just missing something?


It never gets all that action-packed, but I found it truly fascinating in its imagination and attention to detail.


----------



## whitson77 (Nov 10, 2002)

Funny, they lost their humanity the week before. And this weak, they lost their spirit for surivival. They are doubly screwed.


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

whitson77 said:


> Funny, they lost their humanity the week before. And this weak, they lost their spirit for surivival. They are doubly screwed.


They better find the latter shortly, since there is currently a zombie horde descending on the farm.


----------



## Martin Tupper (Dec 18, 2003)

danterner said:


> What about the "CDC whisper," though? Do you think, after testing all of their blood, he whispered something like "one or two of you already have it"? Or even "most of you already have it"? I don't - that's actionable information and Rick would have done something about it (maybe). *I think the whisper was "everyone already has it" - that's not actionable, because what's the point of action with news like that? There are only two ways to respond to that sort of situation: (1) Blow everything up because there's no hope (the choice of the CDC guy), or (2) keep on keeping on, and keep the news to yourself as long as you can, to allow the other "walking dead" continued hope, however false it may be.* And if someone around you dies without having sustained brain trauma, make sure you give them some brain trauma to keep them from coming back (like what Rick did in the bar, when he put the final and otherwise unnecessary bullet in the head of the pissing fat guy after having already killed him pretty thoroughly.





Amnesia said:


> Yes, I agree that it's possible for the scientist to know that the entire population *couldn't* have it. (All it would take is one person at the CDC to be virus-free.)
> 
> But you suggested that perhaps the scientist knew that the entire population *did* have it. That's a very different thing. For example, even if the virus were airborne, that doesn't mean it is necessarily ubiquitous.


I was responding to danterner (quoted above) who surmised that the scientist told Rick that "everyone" is infected, which is why he blew himself up. If the scientist didn't know everyone was infected before Rick's group showed up, then he still didn't know after testing Rick's group.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Martin Tupper said:


> If the scientist didn't know everyone was infected before Rick's group showed up, then he still didn't know after testing Rick's group.


My thought was that the scientist told Rick that everyone *in his group* was infected, which he learned after doing the tests.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

markz said:


> If the CDC guy told Rick everyone is infected, Rick would not have just stabbed Shane in the belly and walked away. He would have also stabbed/shot him in the head.
> 
> And I don't think he would have backed down from shooting Dale in the head.


I've read the comments after this post and while I don't disagree with them, I am really leaning toward agreeing still with this post. We'll see on Sunday. At least we better.


Spoiler



Didn't they promise to explain this season what Jenner whispered in his ear??


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Has the CDC whisper been mentioned at all this season, apart from in the first moments of the first episode, where Rick basically hand-waved it into the background? He mentioned it on the walkie, in his one-way conversation with Morgan. I think that was the only time.



> Rick: (talking on the walkie-talkie) I guess I'm losing hope that you can hear me, but there is always that chance isn't there? That slim chance. It's all about slim chances now. I try to do everything right. Keep people safe. I tried Morgan; I tried. Our group's smaller now. We lost another day before last. It was her choice. I won't say I blame her. She lost faith. The CDC was a dead end. I met a man there...a scientist...he told me something. He told me...it doesn't matter. What matters is we're moving on. Atlanta's done. We're going to try Fort Benning. We're facing a long hard journey. Maybe even harder than I can imagine. But it can't be harder than our journey has been so far...can it? Hundred and twenty-five miles, that what lies ahead. And I'm trying hard not to lose faith. I can't, if I do the others, my family, my wife, my son. There is just a few of us now, so we got to stick together. Fight for each other. Be willing to lay down our lives for each other if it comes to that. It's the only chance we got. Be careful out there Morgan. I hope you and Duane are ok. Stay off the road. Keep moving. Keep your eyes open. I don't know just...just be safe. Maybe we'll see you in Fort Benning someday. Rick, signing off.


----------



## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

This week's episode was NUTS!! I was taken completely aback by what happened to Shane. Wow! I wondered why Rick didn't immediately shoot him in the head or chop it off or something... perhaps he was too stunned. Not sure. I just expected it.

I'm so excited for this coming episode - even though I hate to see the season end. This second half has kicked it!


----------



## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

danterner said:


> Has the CDC whisper been mentioned at all this season, apart from in the first moments of the first episode, where Rick basically hand-waved it into the background? He mentioned it on the walkie, in his one-way conversation with Morgan. I think that was the only time.


Reading that again reminds me of the comedy bit where they're showing Morgan and Duane screaming "take your hand off the button, you idiot" or whatever. Who created that spoof? anyone remember? What a hoot!!

So, might we see Merle this week? I'd thought the season would end with the 30 folks showing up, and that battle... but, the zombie horde that's coming looks far more menacing.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I think this show sometimes suffers from Lost Syndrome, where characters don't communicate with each other when it's convenient for the writers...


SoBelle0 said:


> So, might we see Merle this week? I'd thought the season would end with the 30 folks showing up, and that battle... but, the zombie hoard that's coming looks far more menacing.


No law that says menaces have to wait their turn politely in line!


----------



## Pralix (Dec 8, 2001)

photoshopgrl said:


> I've read the comments after this post and while I don't disagree with them, I am really leaning toward agreeing still with this post. We'll see on Sunday. At least we better.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


I don't think Rick was thinking clearly when he stabbed Shane. It would be traumatic to anyone to have to kill a close friend that way. Of course Rick walking away set the stage for zombie Shane which was leaked out awhile back.

The writers seemed to be laying the groundwork for the "everyone is infected" theory with Randall. I think we should find out in this week's episode.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

SoBelle0 said:


> Reading that again reminds me of the comedy bit where they're showing Morgan and Duane screaming "take your hand off the button, you idiot" or whatever. Who created that spoof? anyone remember? What a hoot!!


I remember that - good stuff

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUxR-ELasrw&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/media]


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

So let's assume that everyone (including the baby) are infected.

Now let's say that all the zombies are killed/contained magically by the military.

They start to rebuild society, but no cure can be found. Gotta be fun to always be on guard if someone dies to kill them again quickly  Obviously not realistic (yes realistic in a zombie world) for this to happen since outbreaks would keep happening.

But talk about no hope if that's true!


----------



## whitson77 (Nov 10, 2002)

Pralix said:


> I don't think Rick was thinking clearly when he stabbed Shane. It would be traumatic to anyone to have to kill a close friend that way. Of course Rick walking away set the stage for zombie Shane which was leaked out awhile back.
> 
> The writers seemed to be laying the groundwork for the "everyone is infected" theory with Randall. I think we should find out in this week's episode.


I think it is pretty clear now that what was whispered was, "Everyone is infected. And maybe, "there can be no cure."

Heck, they spelled out the dormant virus waking up in Shane at the end of the episode.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

pcguru83 said:


> Slightly off topic: I had a really hard time getting into this book. Does it start out slow, or am I just missing something?


It's a little hard to follow with the different stories--some are more exciting than others, but definitely worth sticking with it. The one referred to with the military is awesome. It kind of avoids the unbelievable thing in a book where all kinds of crazy stuff happens to one group of people. It shows you different groups and situations all over the world. The most believable zombie story I've ever heard, which makes it way more scary.


----------



## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

I also yelled at the TV when Carl suddenly showed up in the middle of the field point his gun at daddy. Did anyone answer the question about why he was pointint it at daddy _well before_ zombie Shane got up?


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

He's evil?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

He's mad at Strict Daddy for killing Fun Daddy?


----------



## Pralix (Dec 8, 2001)

jradosh said:


> I also yelled at the TV when Carl suddenly showed up in the middle of the field point his gun at daddy. Did anyone answer the question about why he was pointint it at daddy _well before_ zombie Shane got up?


When Carl showed up, Rick was crouched over Shane, almost like Rick was a zombie eating someone. I think initially, Carl thought that Rick was zombie.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Pralix said:


> When Carl showed up, Rick was crouched over Shane, almost like Rick was a zombie eating someone. I think initially, Carl thought that Rick was zombie.


I don't buy that. Even though it was night, Carl (and we) could plainly see and hear that Rick was no zombie...


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

He's a traumatized kid, I buy it no problem. He was 1/2 in shock in seeing his Dad kill Shane who at the very least thought of a friend, or maybe uncle.

No problem w/ him being freaked out and freezing up and pointing the gun at Rick.


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

But with them showing Carl earlier keeping watch with the binoculars from an upstairs window, I figured he saw them walking together across the field so he headed downstairs, out the door and across the field. Then the arguing, standoff, and stabbing happened while he was on his way there. 

I think he knew no one was a zombie when he headed that way, saw that Rick killed Shane (who Carl saw as a friend/big brother/dad/confidant/?) and was angry/confused so he pointed the gun at Rick trying to figure out what happened. Then Shane reanimated, and Carl shot him.

Shane is the one that helped Carl & Lori escape Atlanta, helped him learn how to shoot, was there when he needed someone to talk to about Dale, was there to give the stolen gun to. I think he was initially angry with Rick for killing Shane, but then saw Zombie Shane as the bigger problem.


----------



## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

Speaking of cutting a head off a walker, what would happen if you did that? Would the head "live" and the body "die"? I mean, the body wouldn't walk around without a head, would it?

Because it might be neat just to use animated walker heads as hood ornaments for the car and stuff.


----------



## tlc (May 30, 2002)

So, a horde is coming. What are your predictions?

Split before the horde gets there.
Battle, then forced retreat.
Kill them all, followed by exhausted decision to leave soon.
Kill them all & stay the winter.
Gang of 30 saves them.
Horde makes a wrong turn, loses interest or is led off.
Other?
I can't decide between "forced retreat" and "exhausted decision". Those seem like the real options to me.

They did move the cars closer to the house. Did they get the RV running? Don't forget Shane's ammo stash. Did that mean that the rest of them are low?

And what are your predictions on which characters will die, due to this horde, and _*not*_ based on your knowledge of the comic?

Clearly some of the unnamed background "farm hands" are "red shirts". I think Herschel and the suicide-daughter will die. And either Sophia's mom _or_ Lori. These are just guesses.


----------



## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

tlc said:


> So, a horde is coming. What are your predictions?
> 
> Split before the horde gets there.
> Battle, then forced retreat.
> ...


I think Battle then forced retreat. I also think the "farm" people are goners.
Herschel will probably give his life up to save Glenn or something like that.

I think they leave and end up seeing Myrle. (or so I hope)

They did say this season ends with a minor cliffhanger. Well they said more cliffhanger than last year which had none.


----------



## Vendikarr (Feb 24, 2004)

tlc said:


> So, a horde is coming. What are your predictions?
> 
> Split before the horde gets there.
> Battle, then forced retreat.
> ...


I am going to go with battle and forced retreat. They will probably be scattered in their retreat.

I predict we won't lose as many as we should - Jimmy, Beth and Patricia should be it. I wanna say T-dog, but I think they are saving him for a future confrontation with Merle.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Ammo will defintily be a big issue/storyline (I predict).


----------



## BradJW (Jun 9, 2008)

I think Hershel is a goner. And I think Maggie joins the group wherever they go.
I also don't think T-Dog is going anywhere. At least I hope not.

Sad this season's almost over, but very excited to see the finale.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Vendikarr said:


> I wanna say T-dog, but I think they are saving him (...)


Who's T-Dog?

(j/k)

I hope Maggie stays. Not only is she pretty hot, but I like how she's helped to develop Glenn's character...


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I'm going to guess a deus-ex-machina, like a flame-thrower Hershel has, or possibly the gang of 30 (lead by Merle!) show up, but that's an incredibly unlikely and extremely lucky coincidence. Or some other highly destructive device like an ANFO bomb (fertilizer+fuel oil) or electric fence that Hershel has set up in advance (kinda like Will Smith had set up at his house in I am Legend).


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

tlc said:


> Clearly some of the unnamed background "farm hands" are "red shirts". I think Herschel and the suicide-daughter will die. And either Sophia's mom _*or*_* Lori.* These are just guesses.


----------



## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Vendikarr said:


> I am going to go with battle and forced retreat. They will probably be scattered in their retreat.
> 
> I predict we won't lose as many as we should - Jimmy, Beth and Patricia should be it. I wanna say T-dog, but I think they are saving him for a future confrontation with Merle.


From the farm people, I think Jimmy, Beth and Patricia are most likely to die. I think Hershel and Maggie survive.

From the tent people, I think Carol is the most likely to die. I have a hard time seeing anyone else taken out.


----------



## jgmack1 (Oct 19, 2011)

What would the zombies do if they arrived at the farmhouse and everybody had fled? Would they just not wander off? Why do the people not just get the hell out of there and return several days later to see if the coast is clear? Maybe smashing zombie's heads to a pulp is addictive.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

How about everyone dies except Darrell and Glenn (ok, and Maggie), and they go team up with the gang of 30? Then at least the show might get interesting.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Zevida said:


> From the farm people, I think Jimmy, Beth and Patricia are most likely to die.


I'm going to agree with this as I have no idea who any of those names are.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Hank said:


> Then at least the show might get interesting.


I'm not sure it would be in a way Maggie would like...


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Amnesia said:


> I'm not sure it would be in a way Maggie would like...


This is about making better TV, not what Maggie would like.

I'm sure Dale didn't like getting gutted by a zombie either.

Besides, Maggie had Darrell and Glenn to protect her.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Hank said:


> This is about making better TV, not what Maggie would like.
> 
> I'm sure Dale didn't like getting gutted by a zombie either.
> 
> Besides, Maggie had Darrell and Glenn to protect her.


You think Darrell and Glenn would be a match for a group of 30 Tony and Daves?


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> You think Darrell and Glenn would be a match for a group of 30 Tony and Daves?


Yes, if Merle is the head of the group, and commands it.


----------



## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

DevdogAZ said:


> You think Darrell and Glenn would be a match for a group of 30 Tony and Daves?





Hank said:


> Yes, if Merle is the head of the group, and commands it.


Why would Darrel fight Merle?


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

robojerk said:


> Why would Darrel fight Merle?


They would not. I did not say they would. Merle would support Darrel and Glenn in protecting Maggie.


----------



## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> I'm going to agree with this as I have no idea who any of those names are.


I just copied those names from another post and assume they are the anonymous farm people who show up randomly but have no personalities or developed characters. IOW, red shirts!


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Zevida said:


> I just copied those names from another post and assume they are the anonymous farm people who show up randomly but have no personalities or developed characters. IOW, red shirts!


Haha! Nicely done.


----------



## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Hank said:


> They would not. I did not say they would. Merle would support Darrel and Glenn in protecting Maggie.


Why would Merle, who seemed like a total scumbag in the short time we got to know him, want to protect Maggie. I would think he would be the one "wanting a piece of ass" as Randal put it.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Maybe you missed it, but Merle is Darrell's brother. If they're reunited along with Glenn and Maggie, surely Darrell would stick up for Glenn and Maggie and by extension, Merle abide by what Darrell wanted.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Hank said:


> If they're reunited along with Glenn and Maggie, surely Darrell would stick up for Glenn and Maggie and by extension, Merle abide by what Darrell wanted.


And what if it's Glenn, Maggie and T-Dog?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Amnesia said:


> And what if it's Glenn, Maggie and T-Dog?


I gotta hand it to you, that's a good question.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I gotta hand it to you, that's a good question.


I see what you did there


----------



## tlc (May 30, 2002)

Hank said:


> Maybe you missed it, but Merle is Darrell's brother. If they're reunited along with Glenn and Maggie, surely Darrell would stick up for Glenn and Maggie and by extension, Merle abide by what Darrell wanted.


Merle is the bad-ass big brother and will expect Darrell to do whatever Merle wants. Darrell has become Good and I'm sure he will (eventually) go against Merle.


----------



## tlc (May 30, 2002)

Vendikarr said:


> I am going to go with battle and forced retreat. They will probably be scattered in their retreat.


 Oooh, a good scattering brings up a lot of possibilities!


jgmack1 said:


> What would the zombies do if they arrived at the farmhouse and everybody had fled? Would they just not wander off? Why do the people not just get the hell out of there and return several days later to see if the coast is clear?


I think they'd just mill around or stand still.

Our group should have a car and an air horn / bull horn / something ready just to draw hordes away. Add that, and a walkie talkie in each vehicle in case you're separated, to the list of things they should have thought of and prepped by now.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Amnesia said:


> And what if it's Glenn, Maggie and T-Dog?


At a minimum, T-Dog is losing a hand and Maggie is screwed. Glenn runs for the hills.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Someone in the group REALLY needs to get themselves a good katana. Lop off a leg to slow them down and go for the kill once they are all down. I'm picturing Uma Thurman versus the Crazy 88. A sword never runs out of ammunition...


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Or even just some acid or other caustic stuff to spray into their eyes to blind them? Sure, that won't kill them, but it would be much harder for them to find their way around as "walkers"


----------



## Barmat (Jun 1, 2001)

john4200 said:


> Someone in the group REALLY needs to get themselves a good katana. Lop off a leg to slow them down and go for the kill once they are all down. I'm picturing Uma Thurman versus the Crazy 88. A sword never runs out of ammunition...





Spoiler



Wow, was that hitting the nail on the head or what?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Barmat said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, was that hitting the nail on the head or what?


Coincidentally, Playboy Magazine is running


Spoiler



The Origin of Michonne, a new story by the comic book's regular team. One-panel preview at link.


----------



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Coincidentally, Playboy Magazine is running * SPOILER *


You've made my day, Rob! I did the research on this (never read the comics) and I can hardly wait for the next season! I love this actress!


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Beryl said:


> You've made my day, Rob! I did the research on this (never read the comics) and I can hardly wait for the next season! I love this actress!


Just to clarify for people who might jump to the wrong conclusion, my spoiler does not involve a Playboy pictorial for any actress.


----------



## Barmat (Jun 1, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Just to clarify for people who might jump to the wrong conclusion, my spoiler does not involve a Playboy pictorial for any actress.


I haven't bought an issue of playboy in forever. Now to keep my collection intact I have to. This will be major spoilers for the non comic reading crowd for sure. Just a heads up.


----------



## voripteth (Apr 9, 2003)

Hank said:


> Or even just some acid or other caustic stuff to spray into their eyes to blind them? Sure, that won't kill them, but it would be much harder for them to find their way around as "walkers"


Aren't most walker eyes milky white anyway? I doubt they use vision to navigate. Didn't the mention that smell was a major factor in a first season episode?


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

voripteth said:


> Aren't most walker eyes milky white anyway? I doubt they use vision to navigate. Didn't the mention that smell was a major factor in a first season episode?


So they should go all Preditor like and always cover themselves in something that smells that the Walkers don't like or respond to.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

MikeMar said:


> So they should go all Preditor like and always cover themselves in something that smells that the Walkers don't like or respond to.


They've done that...draped themselves in zombie guts so they could walk among the zombies.

They've also used the sound thing...a car alarm to draw the zombies away.

I think they were a lot smarter in the first season...


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

the key to fighting zombies is "bottlenecks". You need to create them and then pick them off one by one. Much more difficult to fight if they are spread out and coming from all directions.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> They've done that...draped themselves in zombie guts so they could walk among the zombies.
> 
> They've also used the sound thing...a car alarm to draw the zombies away.
> 
> I think they were a lot smarter in the first season...


This!!!

It's rather annoying watching them digress. Also in season 1 when they chopped open the zombie in the dept store to put the guts on Rick and Glen, they were all SOOO careful not to get ANY blood on their skin. Then flash to this season where that's pretty much all they do.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I also remember Glenn being the master scavenger in Season 1...and they SHOWED him being a master scavenger. Now, they send him out to do the scavenging, but it seems to be out of habit, not because he does anything especially well.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

photoshopgrl said:


> This!!!
> 
> It's rather annoying watching them digress. Also in season 1 when they chopped open the zombie in the dept store to put the guts on Rick and Glen, they were all SOOO careful not to get ANY blood on their skin. Then flash to this season where that's pretty much all they do.


Well, that was when they really didn't know how it spread, they were just taking precautions. Now, after being splattered a bunch of times, they realized it doesn't matter (and in fact, they all might already be infected).


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

photoshopgrl said:


> This!!!
> 
> It's rather annoying watching them digress. Also in season 1 when they chopped open the zombie in the dept store to put the guts on Rick and Glen, they were all SOOO careful not to get ANY blood on their skin. Then flash to this season where that's pretty much all they do.


But didn't Rick and Glenn get it all over them? They just made sure they didn't have any open wounds, right?


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I also remember Glenn being the master scavenger in Season 1...and they SHOWED him being a master scavenger. Now, they send him out to do the scavenging, but it seems to be out of habit, not because he does anything especially well.


yeah...I miss that Glenn. He was like an Aladdin street rat. Knew all the back streets and was extremley crafty and couldn't be caught.

Now he seems to just be bumbling around....but maybe that's what sex does to guys


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Hank said:


> Maybe you missed it, but Merle is Darrell's brother. If they're reunited along with Glenn and Maggie, surely Darrell would stick up for Glenn and Maggie and by extension, Merle abide by what Darrell wanted.


I think you have a different memory of Merle than I do. I don't think he'd support Darrell at all. I think if Darrell were trying to protect Maggie, Merle would berate and belittle Darrell unceasingly.


voripteth said:


> Aren't most walker eyes milky white anyway? I doubt they use vision to navigate. Didn't the mention that smell was a major factor in a first season episode?


According to the various times they've talked about the makeup on the Talking Dead, I think the walker eyes are all black, and that's because they put in a solid black contact that makes the actor unable to see almost anything.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think you have a different memory of Merle than I do. I don't think he'd support Darrell at all. I think if Darrell were trying to protect Maggie, Merle would berate and belittle Darrell unceasingly.


We never actually saw Darrel and Merle interact. We just saw a mirage of Merle from Darrel's perspective when he was hallucinating in the woods. At that time, it clearly was Darrell's way of coping with his dire situation to build up the confidence to continue on and save himself from dying there.

I think if they are reunited, they're really blood brothers until the very end.


----------



## mchasal (Jun 6, 2001)

tlc said:


> So, a horde is coming. What are your predictions?
> 
> Split before the horde gets there.
> Battle, then forced retreat.
> ...


Battle, then forced retreat is my vote. I'm also betting on Hershel staying behind to buy the rest of the people more time to get away. Probably accompanied by a line to the effect of "I was born in this house, and I'm going to die in it" or "I'm too old to run anymore".

Maybe some other farm folk stay with him, perhaps a tearful goodbye from Maggie thrown in for good measure.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Hank said:


> We never actually saw Darrel and Merle interact. We just saw a mirage of Merle from Darrel's perspective when he was hallucinating in the woods. At that time, it clearly was Darrell's way of coping with his dire situation to build up the confidence to continue on and save himself from dying there.
> 
> I think if they are reunited, they're really blood brothers until the very end.


No, but we saw what a jerk Merle is. Then we saw Darrell's subconscious' idea of what a jerk Merle is. I seem to remember we've heard Darrell talking about what a jerk his brother is. I don't think it will be an immediate sibling lovefest when the two are reunited, especially if Darrell wants to protect Rick from the wrath of one-handed Merle.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Just for the record, Rick wasn't included in my scenario... only Darrell, Glenn and Maggie were. I have no idea what Merle would do with the rest of the lot if they survive.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Hank said:


> Just for the record, Rick wasn't included in my scenario... only Darrell, Glenn and Maggie were. I have no idea what Merle would do with the rest of the lot if they survive.


Understood. But given that Rick was the one that cuffed Merle on the roof, causing Merle to lose a hand, you know there's going to be some bad blood between them when they're reunited. And Darrell's going to be in the middle with mixed allegiances. I think that's going to make for some great drama down the road. If it were so cut and dried that Darrell was automatically going to side with Merle, it wouldn't be nearly as compelling.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Yes, I agree, but in my original scenario, everyone but Darrell, Glenn and Maggie is dead. That's how *I* would make the show more watchable (kill off all the dead wood), so there never would be a showdown with Rick and Merle.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Some spoiler teases for the finale. Figured here was better than a new thread. 


Spoiler



Anything on the finale of The Walking Dead?
Prepare for some T-Dog (IronE Singleton) goodness! The outsider who never has a lot to say has some "terrific stuff" in Sunday's finale according to showrunner Glen Mazzara, who also teases there will be "some reason to love T-Dog" during the episode. But will he make it out of the hour alive? Well, Mazzara says that no one on the show is ever safe. Dun-dun-dun!


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Hank said:


> Yes, I agree, but in my original scenario, everyone but Darrell, Glenn and Maggie is dead. That's how *I* would make the show more watchable (kill off all the dead wood), so there never would be a showdown with Rick and Merle.


But bringing back Merle, without a show down from Rick and T-dog would make no sense. Why would a writer throw that great angle away when it was so pivotal in season 1?


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I said that's how I would do it. I hate the current crew - Rick, Lori, Carl, Andrea, Carol, t-dog. The only characters I kinda like are Daryl, Maggie and Glenn. That's why they're the only ones surviving in my 'best case' scenario. 

Honestly, I don't really "like" this show. I'm only watching it to see where the writers take it. It's not riveting, suspenseful, or interesting like Breaking Bad or Dexter. Now if they kill off all the dule characters like I propose, I might start to like it better.


----------



## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

I like Andrea and T-Dog and think they have potential.

I wouldn't mind keeping Rick if we can get rid of Lori and Carl. Carol should definitely go.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Hank said:


> ...Honestly, I don't really "like" this show. I'm only watching it to see where the writers take it. It's not riveting, suspenseful, or interesting like Breaking Bad or Dexter. Now if they kill off all the dule characters like I propose, I might start to like it better.


You must have more free time than I do to watch shows you don't like  j/k

I've done that before with shows but it's usually because they were good and now are bad after 6-7 seasons and I'm just waiting for them to end. For a show that's just finishing it's 2nd (short) season, I'd think I would just bail on it.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Hank said:


> Honestly, I don't really "like" this show. I'm only watching it to see where the writers take it. It's not riveting, suspenseful, or interesting like Breaking Bad or Dexter.


Breaking Bad I can agree with. But Dexter has fallen so far that it's now below The Walking Dead in my mind.



Hank said:


> Now if they kill off all the *dule* characters like I propose, I might start to like it better.


Wrong show. He's on Psych.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> Breaking Bad I can agree with. But Dexter has fallen so far that it's now below The Walking Dead in my mind.


I'm only starting to watch Dexter. What season should I quit?


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Hank said:


> What season should I quit?


When you start not enjoying it.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

DevdogAZ said:


> Breaking Bad I can agree with. But Dexter has fallen so far that it's now below The Walking Dead in my mind.





Hank said:


> I'm only starting to watch Dexter. What season should I quit?





Amnesia said:


> When you start not enjoying it.


Don't listen to them. Dexter is still a great show. True, it used to be up there with Breaking Bad for me the first few seasons but let's be real here, there just aren't many (if any) shows that have sustained it's first season or two greatness the way Breaking Bad has. Any show you try to compare, no matter how good, will always fall short. Dexter _has _lost steam in recent seasons but I personally still like it a lot.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I still enjoy Dexter. I'm not advocating that someone should stop watching. But it's kind of become a parody of itself. Each season Dexter goes after some "big bad" while nearly getting caught himself. Rinse and repeat.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

photoshopgrl said:


> there just aren't many (if any) shows that have sustained it's first season or two greatness the way Breaking Bad has. Any show you try to compare, no matter how good, will always fall short. Dexter has lost steam in recent seasons but I personally still like it a lot.


Yeah, I'm actually a little worried about Season Five of BB not living up to the bar they've set for themselves.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Hee! I said that after season 1, 2 and especially 3. They have yet to fail me.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Zevida said:


> .... Carol should definitely go.


+ me...


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Zevida said:


> Carol should definitely go.





Bierboy said:


> + me...


??? But then who would Daryl have to exchange soulful looks with???


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> ??? But then who would Daryl have to exchange soulful looks with???


Are you available, Rob?


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

SpoilerTV just announced


Spoiler



Michael Rooker Confirms His Return as Merle for Season 3 http://t.co/dRuHtPtW


----------



## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

Zevida said:


> Carol should definitely go.





Bierboy said:


> + me...


I agree. You should go too. Buh-bye.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

WhiskeyTango said:


> I agree. You should go too. Buh-bye.


----------



## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

Hank said:


> Yeah, I'm actually a little worried about Season Five of BB not living up to the bar they've set for themselves.


Dexter I think went down hill after season 3. Still had some moments and such but the overall show has not been the same after season 2-3. These past 2 seasons were total meh...


----------



## jgmack1 (Oct 19, 2011)

Are there any Zombies in Dexter?


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

jgmack1 said:


> Are there any Zombies in Dexter?


Smartass remark fail.


----------



## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

I finally got around to watching this and the Talking Dead episode that followed. Wow is all I can say. I know I'm smeeking. That scene with Rick and Shane, and even Carl, was great. I loved Rick's reaction after he killed Shane. I think Shane wanted to die. I'm curious how Rick is every going to explain this to Carl.

The Talking Dead episode was great, with Zachary Levi (Chuck) and Lauren Cohen. Zachary really is a total Walking Dead geek and Lauren is funny as heck. I liked the discussion comparing her southern belle accent vs her real accent (British, as in Vampire Diaries, don't remember her accent in Chuck). The behind the scenes stuff on the Foley stage about how they made the sound effects was cool to see.


----------



## jgmack1 (Oct 19, 2011)

photoshopgrl said:


> Smartass remark fail.


It didn't fail. Some posters were talking about Dexter rather than The Walking Dead. I was trying to find a connection.

Dumbass remark fail


----------



## Barmat (Jun 1, 2001)

Spoiler for tonight



Spoiler



Last week there should have been a scene showing Carl cutting holes in the fences because tonight the farm is quickly over run.



Spoiler for this season and those that haven't read the comics.



Spoiler



They reach the prision by the end of tonights ep


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

jgmack1 said:


> It didn't fail. Some posters were talking about Dexter rather than The Walking Dead. I was trying to find a connection.
> 
> Dumbass remark fail


Right. :up:


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

So is this a "fail" fail?


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> So is this a "fail" fail?


If they want to act like they weren't being a smart ass then I'm okay with that. We all know the truth. 

Anyhow, back on topic. Going to watch the finale live tonight. I'll be tired tomorrow but screw it.


----------



## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> If they want to act like they weren't being a smart ass then I'm okay with that. We all know the truth.
> 
> Anyhow, back on topic. Going to watch the finale live tonight. I'll be tired tomorrow but screw it.


Living on the west coast is awesome for TV. The Walking Dead is on at 6pm here. :up:


----------



## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Zevida said:


> Living on the west coast is awesome for TV. The Walking Dead is on at 6pm here. :up:


:up:


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Yeah I'd be able to watch all my 10pm shows too which I never stay up for now.


----------



## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> Yeah I'd be able to watch all my 10pm shows too which I never stay up for now.


Well, network stuff still follows the normal schedule, so 10pm shows here too. It just helps for live stuff (football, Oscars) and a few random channels (AMC). Things like Justified and Southland are still on at 10pm for me.


----------



## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

TiVotion said:


> Speaking of cutting a head off a walker, what would happen if you did that? Would the head "live" and the body "die"? I mean, the body wouldn't walk around without a head, would it?
> 
> Because it might be neat just to use animated walker heads as hood ornaments for the car and stuff.


Didn't this already happen on the show? I vaguely remember a severed head that continued to "live" while the body was inanimate. Unless I am just remembering a walker that had a partially severed head (was it the walker that surprised Maggie at the pharmacy?) that kept coming.


----------



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Wrong thread. Deleting.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

So I heard the actor playing Shane in an interview and he said they actually filmed an alternative ending to his scene with Rick where he gets shot:

The alternate scene was very similiar except that Shane doesn't actually fire at Rick. Rick still stabs him and when he reanimates, instead of Carl shooting him, Rick fumbles and picks up Shane's gun only to find there were never even any bullets in the gun.

I found that interesting.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

pmyers said:


> So I heard the actor playing Shane in an interview and he said they actually filmed an alternative ending to his scene with Rick where he gets shot:
> 
> The alternate scene was very similiar except that Shane doesn't actually fire at Rick. Rick still stabs him and when he reanimates, instead of Carl shooting him, Rick fumbles and picks up Shane's gun only to find there were never even any bullets in the gun.
> 
> I found that interesting.


What would have been the motivation for not having bullets in the gun though?


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

pmyers said:


> So I heard the actor playing Shane in an interview and he said they actually filmed an alternative ending to his scene with Rick where he gets shot:
> 
> The alternate scene was very similiar except that Shane doesn't actually fire at Rick. Rick still stabs him and when he reanimates, instead of Carl shooting him, Rick fumbles and picks up Shane's gun only to find there were never even any bullets in the gun.
> 
> I found that interesting.


I like that a lot more! Unfortunately, it'd screw up Carl a lot less, and not give the comic book geeks their due.

Greg


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

photoshopgrl said:


> What would have been the motivation for not having bullets in the gun though?


Yeah, that doesn't make a lot of sense. What? Was Rick supposed to leave the group---leave his wife and kid---just because Shane was pointing a gun at him? No way. If Shane really wanted Rick gone, then the only way would be to kill him. An unloaded gun wouldn't do the job.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

I thought Rick said that he was thinking that Shane WANTED Rick to kill him.

By provoking him with a gun, that would do the trick. 

Didn't someone here say "Death by Cop" at one point.


----------



## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Amnesia said:


> Yeah, that doesn't make a lot of sense. What? Was Rick supposed to leave the group---leave his wife and kid---just because Shane was pointing a gun at him? No way. If Shane really wanted Rick gone, then the only way would be to kill him. An unloaded gun wouldn't do the job.


The point would have been to illustrate more clearly that Shane never intended to kill Rick but that his goal was to get Rick to kill him.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

MikeMar said:


> I thought Rick said that he was thinking that Shane WANTED Rick to kill him.
> 
> By provoking him with a gun, that would do the trick.
> 
> Didn't someone here say "Death by Cop" at one point.





Zevida said:


> The point would have been to illustrate more clearly that Shane never intended to kill Rick but that his goal was to get Rick to kill him.


Ah yes, that makes much more sense. I am one that believed Shane pretty much wanted Rick to kill him.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Zevida said:


> The point would have been to illustrate more clearly that Shane never intended to kill Rick but that his goal was to get Rick to kill him.


Unique spin on Suicide By Cop!


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

gchance said:


> I like that a lot more! Unfortunately, it'd screw up Carl a lot less


Probably there's no difference actually. If Shane's gun doesn't have bullets then Rick can't do it, so presumably Carl still ends up having to shoot zombie-Shane.


----------

