# Keep Ordered TiVo Or Buy a Google TV DVR?



## MICHAELSD (Sep 29, 2010)

I ordered a TiVo Premiere with a year of service and a wireless adapter from somebody who won a contest on eBay and provided me with the code he won (which I confirmed with TiVo). I can't stand sitting through commercials anymore and I watch a few shows that air at the same time this season. I don't mind paying extra for quality, so I bought a TiVo over Comcast's mediocre Motorola DVR.

Since Google TV has been a name rarely mentioned since it was announced, I figured I should just pull the trigger on a TiVo now, but Google TV is beginning to look pretty good as we're getting closer to its launch and we're getting glimpses. You do plug your cable box's video and audio outputs into a Google TV box and it uses an IR blaster to control all of your equipment, so there will be Google TV boxes that can act as a DVR. Google TV has a lot of things going for it over TiVo:

Apps.
Full web browser.
Potentially more consistent interface.
No service fee.
Great iPhone/Android remote apps that allow you to control all of your equipment (because of the IR blaster you setup).
Access to On Demand (not something I'd like to lose).

The only thing I see TiVo having over it, unless select Google TV boxes can, would be the ability to record multiple shows at a time. It's possible video quality can be different between them, which leads me to ask, how does DVR'd TiVo content look in comparison to live content on a regular cable box? I'd see Google TV boxes getting a plug-in or app that would let them automatically skip commercials decently or enable streaming content directly from the box to an iPhone or iPad. Those things would be important to me, and if there are hacks available to get things like that on a TiVo, that would be great.

I'm debating about whether to open the TiVo Premiere prize package (that I paid for, and got a really good deal on), or to sell it and buy a Google TV box. Thoughts?


----------



## dredm (Feb 16, 2002)

Tivo replaces your cable box. If Google TV is connected to your existing cable box and just changes the channel it might not work as you think it will as a DVR. I have great faith in Google putting out a quality item, but until I see it and read reviews, I wouldn't get my hopes up. I suggest you keep the Tivo you got a good deal on. You will not be disappointed.


----------



## MICHAELSD (Sep 29, 2010)

It's also been unclear at this point whether there will be Google TV boxes with a DVR built-in, but past articles have suggested so.


----------



## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

The output of a cable box is analog so its 480i/p. Series 2 Tivos use a cable box while Series 3/HD/XL, Premiere (Series 4) uses cable cards for digital encrypted channels. Without the use of cable boxes, it can record 2 channels at the same time.


----------



## MICHAELSD (Sep 29, 2010)

Are there any hacks that will automatically attempt to remove commercials from anything viewed? Some modern plug-ins to assist a computer in removing commercials automatically have been great. It has really surprised me how small the hacking community is for TiVo.


----------



## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

MICHAELSD said:


> I can't stand sitting through commercials anymore and I watch a few shows that air at the same time this season. [...] Google TV has a lot of things going for it over TiVo:


Right now (from my understanding), Google TV is:

1) Not able to use CableCard
2) Cannot record ANYTHING, it is not a DVR, it just streams or passes through
3) Will have commercials



> Apps.
> Full web browser.
> Potentially more consistent interface.
> No service fee.
> ...


TiVo has Apps (although not many)
I don't think TiVo will, but they could add a web browser
Over time, TiVo's series 4 will be converted to a consistent interface
You pay for not having a service fee with LOTS more ads and privacy invasion- this is Google, afterall
We can already control the TiVo with lots of web/net/app/phone options
TiVo already has access to on demand stuff


----------



## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

MICHAELSD said:


> Are there any hacks that will automatically attempt to remove commercials from anything viewed? Some modern plug-ins to assist a computer in removing commercials automatically have been great. It has really surprised me how small the hacking community is for TiVo.


kmttg uses a combination of comskip to detect and comcut to edit commercials. There's also an option to include VideoRedo for even better results, but VRD costs. I think VRD is worth the additional cost. kmttg is used daily with me - there's an auto-transfer feature, so the stuff just happens; basically a lights-out operation.


----------



## MICHAELSD (Sep 29, 2010)

orangeboy said:


> kmttg uses a combination of comskip to detect and comcut to edit commercials. There's also an option to include VideoRedo for even better results, but VRD costs. I think VRD is worth the additional cost. kmttg is used daily with me - there's an auto-transfer feature, so the stuff just happens; basically a lights-out operation.


Thanks for sharing that. I was hoping for something that either automatically skips past commercials or deletes commercials on the TiVo itself rather than using a computer, but that seems good. I'm assuming video and audio is pass-through through that (no quality loss at all)?


----------



## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

MICHAELSD said:


> Thanks for sharing that. I was hoping for something that either automatically skips past commercials or deletes commercials on the TiVo itself rather than using a computer, but that seems good. I'm assuming video and audio is pass-through through that (no quality loss at all)?


Correct. One of the first things that kmttg does is decode the tivo wrapper, leaving the mpeg2 video and AC3 audio. From there, you can select an encoding profile to create a second copy for your portable devices. Add in an instance of pyTivo to push the commercial-cut show/movie back to the TiVo (also an option in kmttg).


----------



## MICHAELSD (Sep 29, 2010)

crxssi said:


> Right now (from my understanding), Google TV is:
> 1) Not able to use CableCard
> 2) Cannot record ANYTHING, it is not a DVR, it just streams or passes through
> 3) Will have commercials
> ...


Google TV is really just software that manufacturers can use as the OS on a device. When Google TV was announced, it sounded like some hardware manufacturers were going to release a model with DVR capabilities, using the IR blaster to control the cable box and a HDMI cable from the cable box to the Google TV box. It's beginning to sound like there won't be any Google TV boxes with a DVR built-in this year, both fortunately and unfortunately.

From everything I've read, TiVo cannot access On Demand content from most cable providers, including Comcast. Could you clarify?

Thanks for all of the in-depth responses.


----------



## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

The only on-demand content is from Netflix, youtube, blockbuster, etc. You can, however, tune to the cable on-demand channel and order via phone.


----------



## MICHAELSD (Sep 29, 2010)

ThAbtO said:


> You can, however, tune to the cable on-demand channel and order via phone.


How would that work? I thought TiVo didn't work with Comcast On Demand.


----------



## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

MICHAELSD said:


> From everything I've read, TiVo cannot access On Demand content from most cable providers, including Comcast. Could you clarify?
> 
> Thanks for all of the in-depth responses.


You just said "on demand" video, you didn't say cable  Netflix, blockbuster, amazon, etc... it is all on demand video. But Cox/TiVo just announced that cable VOD will be coming to its customers (although they didn't say when).


----------



## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

MICHAELSD said:


> ThAbtO said:
> 
> 
> > You can, however, tune to the cable on-demand channel and order via phone.
> ...


I believe the information provided should reference Pay Per View, and not "On Demand" in general...


----------



## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

MICHAELSD said:


> Thanks for sharing that. I was hoping for something that either automatically skips past commercials or deletes commercials on the TiVo itself rather than using a computer, but that seems good. I'm assuming video and audio is pass-through through that (no quality loss at all)?


There used to be this thing called ReplayTV that for a short time had auto commercial skip and it worked awesome. Unfortunately they got sued off the planet because of it and the company changed ownership a bunch of times. I dont know who ended up with the ReplayTV assets which is too bad because it was a great unit.


----------



## MICHAELSD (Sep 29, 2010)

I got a really good deal on the TiVo prize package, but I'm considering selling it since I can sell it for more than I paid, probably at least $400. Then I would purchase a TiVo Premiere for $160 from the site mentioned on here that it has it at that price, and use a coupon code also mentiond on here to get lifetime service for $300. 

After a year of service, does lifetime service become cheaper? The TiVo Premiere prize package I bought includes a year of service, but I could have saved $120 and bought a TiVo Premiere without a year included. Now that I know about the $300 lifetime service, I'd prefer to just purchase that, unless there's a scenario where I can get a better deal without selling the TiVo prize package I got.


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

This topic is irrelevant and inaccurate, because Google TV is not a DVR. It might interface with existing Cablecard-based DVRs, but it's not a DVR.


----------



## kturcotte (Dec 9, 2002)

KungFuCow said:


> There used to be this thing called ReplayTV that for a short time had auto commercial skip and it worked awesome. Unfortunately they got sued off the planet because of it and the company changed ownership a bunch of times. I dont know who ended up with the ReplayTV assets which is too bad because it was a great unit.


Directv has the rights for Replay stuff now.
As far as a DVR, I don't see any reason why a hardware manufacturer couldn't include it. Tuners, hard drive. Slight modification of the OS to accommodate. Can you imagine a Google Tv that could record 4 channels at once?! Would be nice competition for Tivo too!


----------



## MICHAELSD (Sep 29, 2010)

slowbiscuit said:


> This topic is irrelevant and inaccurate, because Google TV is not a DVR. It might interface with existing Cablecard-based DVRs, but it's not a DVR.


I'm 50% sure the Google TV OS could accommodate a DVR if a hardware manufacturer decided to build a DVR with that OS. When Google TV was announced, it sounded like there would be Google TV boxes with DVR capabilities, but I don't think we'll see any this year now that we're getting closer to Google TV's launch. We don't really know as much about Google TV still, but articles written about it a few weeks ago make it sound like most boxes would have a DVR built-in, which they won't.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Well the leaked video of the Logitech Revue did mention recording to the cloud. I guess we will know the 6th.


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

What would get me excited is if Tivo switched over to GTV O/S on the Premiere and included that new slide-out keypad remote. 

Really is there any reason Tivo just doesn't switch to GTV O/S? IT's free!!!!!!

I imagine it might run fast even. 

GTV though as another box in addition to Tivo or cable box doesn't excite me very much. Don't see much of the point.


----------



## kturcotte (Dec 9, 2002)

trip1eX said:


> What would get me excited is if Tivo switched over to GTV O/S on the Premiere and included that new slide-out keypad remote.
> 
> Really is there any reason Tivo just doesn't switch to GTV O/S? IT's free!!!!!!
> 
> ...


I hope not, or if they did, they at least offered a choice. I bought my Tivo BECAUSE it's a Tivo. If GTV were forced on us, I'd probably be asking for my money back.


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

kturcotte said:


> I hope not, or if they did, they at least offered a choice. I bought my Tivo BECAUSE it's a Tivo. If GTV were forced on us, I'd probably be asking for my money back.


It would still be a Tivo. Just would use Android as the OS which means a much snappier experience and better 3rd party features. Tivo could just reskin Android with its look. Same recording technology and options. Just not that slow HDUI and flash crap.


----------



## kturcotte (Dec 9, 2002)

I still want the Tivo interface (Even prefer the SD one hehe)


----------



## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

kturcotte said:


> I still want the Tivo interface (Even prefer the SD one hehe)


Seconded. At this point, if they were to remove the SD interface, I would then seriously consider defecting. 10+ years with it are hard to change (especially when exposed to the disaster that is the HD menus).


----------



## seattlewendell (Jan 11, 2006)

You should wait to see exactly what the Google TV execution is. What I have learned from using Tivo over the years is that the execution does not always match the idea.


----------



## jaywtivo (Aug 29, 2004)

Android, part deux.

If GoogleTV comes out with a box (or software for my HTPC) that works with CableCard, does multiple tuners/DVR, Tivo will probably be gone.


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

If they had been working with CableLabs for Cablecard cert, we probably would've heard something by now.

Anything else would be a kludge, DVR-wise, so my bet is that this is not going to replace your cable box (or DVR).


----------



## JimboG (May 27, 2007)

MICHAELSD,

So far Google TV only works as a DVR with Dish Network. As you probably know, Tivo does not have an HD DVR that will record HD programming from Dish.

Essentially, you have to choose between Dish's HD-lite programming (compatible with Google TV) or an HD Tivo. The two options are mutually exclusive.


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

kturcotte said:


> I still want the Tivo interface (Even prefer the SD one hehe)


Who said you couldn't have your cake and eat it too?

That would be the point of putting GTV on a Tivo box.


----------



## wisny (Sep 6, 2010)

trip1eX said:


> Who said you couldn't have your cake and eat it too?
> 
> That would be the point of putting GTV on a Tivo box.


THIS! This sounds super cool. The new Premiere and GTV UI are both built on Flash I think? Sounds like they belong together. What TiVo needs is a way to surf the web. Sounds like GTV will provide that. :up:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2364066,00.asp

(has a neat chart comparing features of GTV vs other tv box devices)

Here's the chart, copied. But, it's much easier to read at the article link:

Product Price Browsing Flash YouTube Netflix Hulu 1080p Wi-Fi DVR
Google TV Varies Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes TBD
Apple TV $229 No No Yes No No No 802.11n No
Boxee Box $119.99 Yes Yes Yes TBD Yes Yes 802.11n No
Roku HD XR $129.99 No No No Yes No No 802.11n No
TiVo Premiere $299.99 No Yes Yes Yes No Yes Optional Yes
Microsoft Xbox 360 $199.99 No No No Yes No Yes Optional No
Nintendo Wii $199.99 Yes Yes Yes Yes No No 802.11b/g No
Sony PS3 $299.99 Yes No Yes Yes No Yes 802.11b/g No


----------



## jaredmwright (Sep 6, 2004)

The data in the chart is relatively outdated. For example, Apple TV has Netflix now, and TiVo Premiere and Roku will have Hulu in the coming months.


----------



## wisny (Sep 6, 2010)

jaredmwright said:


> The data in the chart is relatively outdated. For example, Apple TV has Netflix now, and TiVo Premiere will have Hulu in the future.


Yes, that's true. It's from May 22, 2010, but the data is already outdated. I didn't come across a newer one, tho. Still a handy article, I thought.

If TiVo doesn't add full web browsing, and Dish does .... TiVo will be at a severe competitive disadvantage, I think. The web on our tv's, that is the future that will unhook us from cable and/or satellite, finally. Not for awhile, I know, but that's the future.


----------



## kturcotte (Dec 9, 2002)

wisny said:


> Yes, that's true. It's from May 22, 2010, but the data is already outdated. I didn't come across a newer one, tho. Still a handy article, I thought.
> 
> If TiVo doesn't add full web browsing, and Dish does .... TiVo will be at a severe competitive disadvantage, I think. The web on our tv's, that is the future that will unhook us from cable and/or satellite, finally. Not for awhile, I know, but that's the future.


Can't you just connect your computer to your HDTV and have a full fledged browser like I do? And not have to risk something going wrong and the box crashing and restarting during an important recording?


----------



## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

wisny said:


> If TiVo doesn't add full web browsing, and Dish does .... TiVo will be at a severe competitive disadvantage, I think.


Not necessarily. For example, I, for one, have absolutely no interest in trying to "browse the web" on my TV. I much prefer using the browser of my choice, on my computer, with a real pointing device and keyboard, and with web filters and plugins that work for me.

I am not saying that it would be a mistake to add a browser to TiVo, just that I bet it would be used far less than other features. Plus, TiVo has plenty enough work ahead just trying to fix their broken HDUI (which is still not even all HD, too slow, and somewhat buggy). Then after that, we at least need a newer version of Netflix. Then support for streaming to other devices. Then, then, then...

Also, Dish is not even in the TiVo's market since it is satellite.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

jaredmwright said:


> The data in the chart is relatively outdated. For example, Apple TV has Netflix now


...and has dropped to $99.


----------



## wisny (Sep 6, 2010)

kturcotte said:


> Can't you just connect your computer to your HDTV and have a full fledged browser like I do? And not have to risk something going wrong and the box crashing and restarting during an important recording?


Well, yes, that's a good point. But, I have my desk and computer in a different room than my tv.



crxssi said:


> Not necessarily. For example, I, for one, have absolutely no interest in trying to "browse the web" on my TV. I much prefer using the browser of my choice, on my computer, with a real pointing device and keyboard, and with web filters and plugins that work for me.
> 
> I am not saying that it would be a mistake to add a browser to TiVo, just that I bet it would be used far less than other features. Plus, TiVo has plenty enough work ahead just trying to fix their broken HDUI (which is still not even all HD, too slow, and somewhat buggy). Then after that, we at least need a newer version of Netflix. Then support for streaming to other devices. Then, then, then...
> 
> Also, Dish is not even in the TiVo's market since it is satellite.


Dedicated computer work, IA, I would use my computer. But access to the full web on the tv - I really believe that is the future. AOL tried the limited web access portal, people hated it. Eventually people will get annoyed with only being able to access this or that, as 'channels' allow. Full web access !!!


----------



## andydumi (Jun 26, 2006)

The Logitech box can control the Premiere via the enthernet IP control, they showed that in a video, so the two can work in tandem rather than replace one another from what I understand.

So at a good price I would love a Google Box, then I would not have to worry about the crappy and slow Tivo menus.


----------



## seethransom (Mar 3, 2010)

Playon.tv has been a reality for years, and all these dumb little hockey pucks are sliding out. Playon has Hulu Regular, and even more content than TiVo does. Cheaper, and you likely have the required hardware. To top it, it works on iPad/touch/phone. 
Playone +TiVo = The best TV that can be assembled.


----------



## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

seethransom said:


> Playon +TiVo = The best TV that can be assembled.


Depends on your requirements. "Playon" is MS-Windows only.


----------



## JimboG (May 27, 2007)

crxssi said:


> Depends on your requirements. "Playon" is MS-Windows only.


Sure, but you could use WINE or Boot Camp to use Playon, couldn't you?


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

As I suspected, this thread is pointless (or at the very least misleading), because the Logitech Revue running GoogleTV is not a DVR, and does not integrate well with existing DVRs right now. Check out the conclusions from the engadget hands-on for details.

If you want a DVR, get a DVR. If you want WebTV version 999.0, get GoogleTV or AppleTV. Better yet, build a cheap HTPC with some storage and hook it up to your TV and you might get the best of both.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

slowbiscuit said:


> As I suspected, this thread is pointless


yep - Google TV does not come in a DVR. The answer is "keep ordered TiVo"


----------



## psycho9x (Oct 7, 2010)

According to all the info currently floating around, the GTV is kind of a DVR meaning that you can record stuff but instead of being stored in the unit the data is stored online in the google cloud. This info could be wrong but its what a lot of sites are saying.


----------



## kturcotte (Dec 9, 2002)

psycho9x said:


> According to all the info currently floating around, the GTV is kind of a DVR meaning that you can record stuff but instead of being stored in the unit the data is stored online in the google cloud. This info could be wrong but its what a lot of sites are saying.


I can't imagine that. I may record at least 20-30 Gbps per day! Is it really going to upload that EVERY day?


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

If that were to be the case (I'm sure it's not) then it wouldn't upload the data, it would share the recording that was in the cloud.


----------



## kturcotte (Dec 9, 2002)

Fofer said:


> If that were to be the case (I'm sure it's not) then it wouldn't upload the data, it would share the recording that was in the cloud.


Hope they had a LOT of storage. Some shows sit on my Tivo for over a month before I watch them lol


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

kturcotte said:


> Hope they had a LOT of storage. Some shows sit on my Tivo for over a month before I watch them lol


Yes, Google has a lot of storage. 

Still, this won't happen, the TV networks would never allow it.


----------

