# V - "Pilot" - 11/3/2009



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Figured this should get its own thread before discussion starts in the other ones. Don't want to spoil it! 

I've only watched the first half hour, but so far so good.  The cast is good, except Scott Wolf... he's out of his league. And he doesn't sound like a newscaster either. Why do actors always have such problem with being believable as news anchors? They rarely seem to get it right.

Will watch the other half hour soon.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Not bad, overall. I wish that I hadn't gone back and watched the original, because while the new series is a "re-envisioning," it is still bound to follow many of the major plot elements.

I think if there was anything that bugged me, it was that they referred to the Visitors as "the V's." I don't know why... probably because it's a bit too self-referential. I liked that "V" in the original was a little more obscure, having multiple meanings. Plus, "V's" seems a bit too "slang," if you will. It'd be like referring to Americans as "A's."

Plus, I think it accelerated the plot a bit too fast. I personally would have preferred to have it be a bit more mysterious for a while... what are the Visitors doing here? Are they really benevolent as they pretend to be? And so on, before revealing them as the lizard people they are and revealing the resistance and all that. This all seems like network directive to cram as much into the pilot episode as possible. (I ask in response: would a series like "Lost" have been as successful had they gone and explained all the details in the first episode? I don't think so.)

I'm intrigued enough to keep watching, though.


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

Nice effects, sound design. The pacing induced a bit of whiplash. I thought the story hit the brakes with Agent Evans' little mommy rant about 30 minutes in... Then it went full bore ahead and beyond. 

My local affiliate found the need to squash the feed with unbelievably annoying flashy scroll for worthless election results (at one point they were literally showing 50 votes on the screen). When will stations stop trying to make their TV broadcasts into websites? Use the digital subchannel for this worthless sludge.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

ElJay said:


> My local affiliate found the need to squash the feed with unbelievably annoying flashy scroll for worthless election results...


So did ours (ABC Houston). Right during "Anna's" intro speech to the world, when she was talking in the various local languages, and the English translation was subtitled at the bottom of the screen. RIGHT THEN they decide to take up the bottom 1/3 of the screen with early results. So early the precincts reporting were 0%. Have no idea what she said as they completely covered the subtitles. 

Thought it was an ok pilot. Not killer, but I'll stick around and see how it develops.


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

ElJay said:


> Nice effects, sound design. The pacing induced a bit of whiplash. I thought the story hit the brakes with Agent Evans' little mommy rant about 30 minutes in... Then it went full bore ahead and beyond.


I totally agree with this. I thought the pacing was REALLY off.

For a pilot episode, it seemed really content with skipping over a LOT of the exposition and groundwork and just getting to the cool explosions and spaceships. That disappointed me. The episode didn't feel like it had a lot of meat on its bones.

I think the show has a lot of potential, and I like the idea of what they're trying to accomplish even if they're not really hitting the mark. I'm really hopeful for the show, I want it to improve, and I plan to stick it out for a while. But over the course of the pilot, I was already starting to see why the show had its 5 week production hiatus in September so that they could go back to the drawing board on a lot of things. I'm very hopeful that they make changes for the better. From what Elizabeth Mitchell said in her Entertainment Weekly interview last week, they wanted to make the show deeper and more intense. I'm looking forward to that.


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## EchoBravo (Apr 20, 2002)

After the escargot pacing of Mad Men, every other show feels painfully rushed. This was no exception.

I also made the mistake of watching large parts of the original miniseries on Sy-Fy today. In retrospect, I wish I'd gone into this reimagining fresh.

<sexist>
That being said, Anna is quite an upgrade from Diana. I'll also never tire of the blonde Lost lady in the sprayed-on jeans.
</sexist>

Sorry.


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## HTH (Aug 28, 2000)

Sorry about your lower thirds. My TiVo picked the wrong time to decide it needed to reboot. I missed the first 7 minutes, 42 seconds of the episode completely. My recording started just a few seconds before the ships panels started moving and lit up. ABC won't put the episode up online until Saturday.

I also missed the entire first act of _NCIS_. I don't know what CBS's online schedule is.

And I had intended to record _V_ in HD on the computer as well, but forgot about setting it up, what with multiple errands to run in the afternoon and staying late at work to make up for them.


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

HTH said:


> I missed the first 7 minutes, 42 seconds of the episode completely. My recording started just a few seconds before the ships panels started moving and lit up. ABC won't put the episode up online until Saturday.


Heh, your TiVo at least has a good sense of timing.  You can find the first 8 minutes of the show on Hulu.com right now.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

HTH said:


> Sorry about your lower thirds. My TiVo picked the wrong time to decide it needed to reboot. I missed the first 7 minutes, 42 seconds of the episode completely. My recording started just a few seconds before the ships panels started moving and lit up. ABC won't put the episode up online until Saturday.


You didn't miss much at all. Bunch of people running about reacting to what seemed to be earthquakes. That's it, really.


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

LoadStar said:


> You didn't miss much at all. Bunch of people running about reacting to what seemed to be earthquakes. That's it, really.


I couldn't help but laugh at the irony of the two geeky guys on the newscast, talking about how "it was just like Independence Day", right after the 'earthquake' scene... which was basically ripped straight out of Independence Day.


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

EchoBravo said:


> <sexist>
> That being said, Anna is quite an upgrade from Diana. I'll also never tire of the blonde Lost lady in the sprayed-on jeans.
> </sexist>


Coincidentally Diana is also the name of the character who was partnered with Joel Gretsch's character in "The 4400"-- I was missing her in one of scenes at the end that had his character with "the blonde Lost lady in the sprayed-on jeans."

(Not to start a Jacqueline McKenzie vs. Elizabeth Mitchell subthread.)


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## HTH (Aug 28, 2000)

Anna's speech:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The subtitles incidentally were in all caps, and without sentence-terminating punctuation, so I took some liberties there.


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## FourFourSeven (Jan 3, 2003)

It was entertaining (not having watched the original V - my parents didn't let me!). I agree that it would have been interesting to have the "mystery" last a bit longer - are they good? Is the resistance guy wacko? Still, it was for the most part a nice setup for a show. I'm not a sci-fi guy, but I'll watch again.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I enjoyed it and will have the SP set. I felt like the rushing thru the Vistor's coming, their healing people, the not so nice side shown and the resistance started was condensing a whole bunch of episodes into one. I hope they did that for a reason, like, to branch off on some new plotlines then what we saw in 83.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Skittles said:


> For a pilot episode, it seemed really content with skipping over a LOT of the exposition and groundwork and just getting to the cool explosions and spaceships.


Yeah, the last 20 minutes felt very rushed, as if they believed they needed to get all that "out of the way" in order to keep the audience interested in episode 2, and move on to the resistance part of the story.

The reveal during the meeting about how the Visitors were "cloning human flesh to disguise their reptilian skin" came out of nowhere, and just as a sentence thrown out there in a longer speech. I guess they must really count on everyone being familiar with the source material, because that was a very non-dramatic reveal of something that was IIRC a big deal in the original show.

That said, I did like the show a lot.  They've laid the groundwork now, let's see if they can write compelling storylines and make the characters interesting enough to care about.

Oh, and I guess the writers have no problem with human/alien love affairs.


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## squint (Jun 15, 2008)

ElJay said:


> Coincidentally Diana is also the name of the character who was partnered with Joel Gretsch's character in "The 4400"-- I was missing her in one of scenes at the end that had his character with "the blonde Lost lady in the sprayed-on jeans."
> 
> (Not to start a Jacqueline McKenzie vs. Elizabeth Mitchell subthread.)


I think the street address of the resistance meeting was 4400, too.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

I think they had to get to the reptile reveal right away, anyone who remembers anything about the original remembers that; and I bet almost no one was surprised by the revelation. Now they can get on to other things.

I think I know who's going to have a lizard-baby...


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

latrobe7 said:


> I think I know who's going to have a lizard-baby...


Scott Wolf?


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

I saw it delayed, and just got done a short time ago.

THIS IS WHAT *V* ALWAYS SHOULD HAVE BEEN.

Coming from me, this is extreme. I'm a Trek fan who wanted them to only change the actors in the new film, and to leave all else visually identical. Leave EVERYTHING in place and just do new stories. (I have come around due to the "it's a new timeline" thing, but still pine a little for what I'd wanted...)

I have NO problem with the new V, however. Maybe it's in part due to the original not being more than a season long, not having the established place the original Trek did. I dunno. It IS, as already said, EXACTLY what V should always have been. I can easily accept this as V, and want to see more.

I even can sort of view the priest and the FBI agent as heirs to the characters of Mike and Julie.

And did anyone catch the leader's name? A tribute to the original? [Di]-Anna?

That guy who seems to be Anna's top aide... Let's hope we find out his name is "John", or "Jack" at least. 

Let's see...

A son who's into the Visitors, we've sort of got the 5th Column in place already...

This huge jump-start really gets the series going all over again, even sort of "picking up where we left off", even if the original characters aren't there!

Yep. The show's back, and if they keep this up, it's gonna be good.

V​


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## stinkbomb1020 (Jul 18, 2004)

It was good and I plan to keep watching. The SE's were awesome. I agree with others that the story went into hyper drive the last 20 or so minutes, but I don't think it hurt anything.
Had that political race BS scrolling at the bottom also. With such a highly anticipated show, one would think they would have used their piss ant brains and not displayed that crap during the freak'n series premier! Especially when my local ABC station has a sub channel.
Anyway, looking forward to the next episode.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Meh. Another unnecessary remake. But I'll keep watching for now, because I'm a sucker.

On the idea that the Visitors had been here for decades -- was that in the original? I don't remember that, and didn't see it in the part I rewatched the other day. If not, it looks like a case of art imitating life imitating art -- I'm thinking here of David Icke, the man who seems to have taken the original V way too seriously.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

I didn't like how the entire episode seemed rushed, one scene we are seeing the arrival, next scene the FBI agent already has a nickname for them? I guess days passed, I don't know. All the big "reveals" were revealed way too soon (who was who, what was what). I don't know if spoilers are allowed



wmcbrine said:


> Meh. Another unnecessary remake. But I'll keep watching for now, because I'm a sucker.
> 
> On the idea that the Visitors had been here for decades -- was that in the original? I don't remember that, and didn't see it in the part I rewatched the other day. If not, it looks like a case of art imitating life imitating art -- I'm thinking here of David Icke, the man who seems to have taken the original V way too seriously.


I liked this idea and I think it's new for the remake, at least I don't remember it in the original. It makes sense for the advanced race to send out scouts and the fact that the FBI was already tracking them as terrorists but didn't really know what kind, pretty cool.


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

Pretty decent. I like it a lot better than the pilot of Flash Forward which I promptly gave up on.


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## Uncle Briggs (Sep 11, 2004)

I kept waiting for one thing during the entire hour that surprised me, or that I wasn't expecting. It never happened. I am very disappointed.


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

Skittles said:


> I totally agree with this. I thought the pacing was REALLY off.
> 
> For a pilot episode, it seemed really content with skipping over a LOT of the exposition and groundwork and just getting to the cool explosions and spaceships. That disappointed me. The episode didn't feel like it had a lot of meat on its bones.
> 
> I think the show has a lot of potential, and I like the idea of what they're trying to accomplish even if they're not really hitting the mark. I'm really hopeful for the show, I want it to improve, and I plan to stick it out for a while. But over the course of the pilot, I was already starting to see why the show had its 5 week production hiatus in September so that they could go back to the drawing board on a lot of things. I'm very hopeful that they make changes for the better. From what Elizabeth Mitchell said in her Entertainment Weekly interview last week, they wanted to make the show deeper and more intense. I'm looking forward to that.


Good critique. Sounds like the show sucks hard enough that I won't need to add another hour to the too many hours of TV I already watch.

Maybe once it gets cancelled I'll catch it on Netflix.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I thought the dialogue was awful, and the camera work was jarring. A perfect example of the jarring camerawork was in the conversation towards the end of the show on the spaceship between Scott Wolf and Anna's second in command. As the camera would switch back and forth from one of them to the other, the camera angles would switch as well, where one second you're looking up the guy's nose, then the next second you're looking down on his forehead, etc. It seemed like they were trying too hard to be edgy and just screwed it up.

I also agree with everyone else that they crammed way too much story into one episode. This amount of plot should have at a minimum been in a two-hour premiere, or maybe even in the first 3-4 regular episodes.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

appleye1 said:


> Good critique. *Sounds like the show sucks hard enough that I won't need to add another hour to the too many hours of TV I already watch.*
> 
> Maybe once it gets cancelled I'll catch it on Netflix.


Really? Which thread are you reading, because it can't be this one.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I thought the dialogue was awful, and the camera work was jarring. A perfect example of the jarring camerawork was in the conversation towards the end of the show on the spaceship between Scott Wolf and Anna's second in command. As the camera would switch back and forth from one of them to the other, the camera angles would switch as well, where one second you're looking up the guy's nose, then the next second you're looking down on his forehead, etc. It seemed like they were trying too hard to be edgy and just screwed it up.
> 
> I also agree with everyone else that they crammed way too much story into one episode. This amount of plot should have at a minimum been in a two-hour premiere, or maybe even in the first 3-4 regular episodes.


I agree about the conversation and how it was filmed - very, very strange. I got the impression they did it not to be "edgy" but to make sure that Wolf didn't look like a little kid next to the other guy though.


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## MrGreg (May 2, 2003)

At the very beginning, when we first see the front of the church, the guy in the wheelchair is on a landing ~80&#37; of the way up the steps. As far as I can tell, there wasn't a ramp either up or down from this landing. So how did he get there?


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

MickeS said:


> Really? Which thread are you reading, because it can't be this one.


I was specifically responding to Skittle's post, but there's a quite a few critical comments in other posts. (Hey, that's standard for TCF though, deserved or not. Isn't it?  )

It's on the Tivo though, which means I will probably watch it regardless. But at least now I won't have the high expectations that I sometimes get for shows that were hyped as much as this one was. :up:


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## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

I never saw the original series, so I don't have anything to compare it to. I thought it was interesting enough to keep watching, but I agree with everyone who thought the pacing was rushed.

I did wonder about the "common mineral" the V's needed. I can't think of anything other than oil we would fight for ... unless they want to take our jobs


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> I think if there was anything that bugged me, it was that they referred to the Visitors as "the V's." I don't know why... probably because it's a bit too self-referential.


It's completely in context though. This is reflective of our Twitterized lexicon, and that that the V's themselves would refer to themselves in that manner is just another indicator of how vigorously they're working to resonate with folks. The V's are essentially using our popular culture, crafted by our over-the-top consumerism, to better "sell" what they're offering.



LoadStar said:


> Plus, "V's" seems a bit too "slang," if you will. It'd be like referring to Americans as "A's."


Or referring to New York's Mayor Michael Bloomberg as "Mike" -- oh wait... that's what he's referred to on the banner headline on the New York Post this morning. Like it or not -- this is how our culture is now. If you're trying to integrate yourself into our society, don't seek to do so by acting reserved and proper; your message will fall flat.



LoadStar said:


> Plus, I think it accelerated the plot a bit too fast.


I think these producers wanted to tell a *different *story from the one that the original producers told. I think if they could have gotten away with it, the first half of this episode could have been told in narration.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Uncle Briggs said:


> I kept waiting for one thing during the entire hour that surprised me, or that I wasn't expecting. It never happened. I am very disappointed.


Which just goes to show how non-constructive it is to go into anything with such specific, prescriptive expectations. Television series are the producers' and writers' and the directors' and the actors' story to tell. They get to determine what it should be and contain, and then we can appreciate it or not based on its merits, apart from any preconceived notions or pre-determined plot-event checklist.


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

Uncle Briggs said:


> I kept waiting for one thing during the entire hour that surprised me, or that I wasn't expecting. It never happened. I am very disappointed.


You expected Alan Tudyk (Wash from Firefly) to be a V? That was a surprise to me. Everything else more or less paralleled the original. Just wondering if they are going to get Michael Ironside to play a role. Maybe not the same role, maybe play a V commando.


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## jones07 (Jan 30, 2001)

Oh please, not Michael Ironside playin a bad ass again. Talk about playing the same role all the [email protected] time. 

I really like Ironside since first seeing him in War of the worlds. But even he must be sick of doing the same role over an over again


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## jeepair (Apr 22, 2004)

Sirius Black said:


> You expected Alan Tudyk (Wash from Firefly) to be a V? That was a surprise to me. Everything else more or less paralleled the original. Just wondering if they are going to get Michael Ironside to play a role. Maybe not the same role, maybe play a V commando.


Yes, it needs Tyler Ham with his Mac 10. 

I loved the original V and I'm enjoying this one too. That floating grenade, I'm wondering if it also has a camera/microphone.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

Sirius Black said:


> You expected Alan Tudyk (Wash from Firefly) to be a V? That was a surprise to me. Everything else more or less paralleled the original. Just wondering if they are going to get Michael Ironside to play a role. Maybe not the same role, maybe play a V commando.


How about that fact that the "V's" have been living among us for years. That took me surprise. Even better some of them have already formed a resistance or "5th Column."


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## billypritchard (May 7, 2001)

Sirius Black said:


> You expected Alan Tudyk (Wash from Firefly) to be a V? That was a surprise to me. Everything else more or less paralleled the original. Just wondering if they are going to get Michael Ironside to play a role. Maybe not the same role, maybe play a V commando.


Since I hadn't seen much about him being in the show, I immediately thought he was at least the mole, maybe a V.


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## MasterCephus (Jan 3, 2005)

Felt it was rushed, but we'll see what the pacing does in the next episodes.

* The interview with Anna and the reporter was awkward in that it felt like Anna was desperate to get the reporter to be nice...I mean it didn't feel like she was in control of the conversation, but kind of begging.

* Didn't like the fact that the FBI and the priest decide that they need to form a resistance so fast...I mean they've taken a lot in and it would seem logical to at least breathe for a second.

* Liked the idea that the 'V's have been the problem in our world for years...causing most of the world's ills...get the world to the point where they are desperate and here they come....

* Also like the setup of the 5th Column (wonder if that will be their name in this one). It would be even cooler if they were the leaders of the resistance and not humans...

Just random thoughts...


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## billypritchard (May 7, 2001)

It was actually fairly dullish for being so plot heavy. Maybe because they tried to tell us so much and move it forward so much, they weren't able to successfully build up suspense on any one item.

Why tell us this early that the resistance guy is a V? Couldn't that have waited a few episodes?

Premise wise, since they postulate that the Visitors have been among us for a while, they can pretty much just have anyone turn out to be a V. Like how Dollhouse did last season with the hidden dolls.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

TriBruin said:


> How about that fact that the "V's" have been living among us for years. That took me surprise. Even better some of them have already formed a resistance or "5th Column."


I think all that was revealed too fast, especially "good guy" V's. They coulda let that simmer a bit.


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

It is interesting to note they dropped the reverberation sound effect when the Visitors talk. That would explain why they could blend in on Earth much more effectively. However, it does beg the question, did none of those Visitors ever develop a relationship with humans? You'd think that prominent members of society would be expected to do certain things but apparently none of them did during this ambiguous amount of time while they were doing whatever it is they were doing.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

HTH said:


> Anna's speech:
> 
> The subtitles incidentally were in all caps, and without sentence-terminating punctuation, so I took some liberties there.


THANK YOU! :up:


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## DougF (Mar 18, 2003)

One has to wonder if this was a two-hour pilot that got edited down to an hour. That could explain the odd pace of things.

I think it has a great cast and a lot of potential. I'll keep watching. This was the only new series besides FlashForward that I was planning to watch this year. I hope it pays off.


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

MrGreg said:


> At the very beginning, when we first see the front of the church, the guy in the wheelchair is on a landing ~80% of the way up the steps. As far as I can tell, there wasn't a ramp either up or down from this landing. So how did he get there?


I noticed that too, along with the cramming into the scene of every homeless stereotype you could think of.

I think I liked the second half much, better. The dialog in the first half was incredibly forced.

Worst scene - Reveal of the C4 and she had to say 'Here is the C4!!' I guess they are doing a CSI style of dumbing down everything possible, god forbid that anyone gets confused.

CSI-Style = explaining that fingerprints and DNA are unique to individuals.


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## ThePennyDropped (Jul 5, 2006)

MrGreg said:


> At the very beginning, when we first see the front of the church, the guy in the wheelchair is on a landing ~80% of the way up the steps. As far as I can tell, there wasn't a ramp either up or down from this landing. So how did he get there?


I actually pointed that out to the people I was watching this with last night. I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed such an oddball detail. 

I agree with everyone else that the pacing was rushed. But if it's in order to get to new ground on this remake, I think it's probably a valid decision. I think we'll see the pacing make more sense in the next few episodes.


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## JoeyJoJo (Sep 29, 2003)

I was disappointed with the large amount of "stuff" that was already revealed, but I think I understand why they're doing it this way.

The original "V" was a miniseries of only two episodes. My guess is that they're trying to get through all of the "miniseries" intro stuff quickly. It's a shame really.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JoeyJoJo said:


> I was disappointed with the large amount of "stuff" that was already revealed, but I think I understand why they're doing it this way.
> 
> The original "V" was a miniseries of only two episodes. My guess is that they're trying to get through all of the "miniseries" intro stuff quickly. It's a shame really.


It may be a reaction to all the genre shows that have failed in recent years in part because they spent a lot of time setting up the basic premise of the show and audiences just gave up. They probably wanted to hit the ground running with everything set up right away so that we know what we're getting.

For my part, I love slow-burn shows. Then again, I love a lot of shows that never make it to a full first season, so maybe their strategy is smart. I didn't mind the rapid pace, as long as it pays off; it gives them the opportunity to have a pretty richly-developed world starting in episode 2, instead of taking weeks or months for what's going on to sink in.

The original series is probably also a consideration; a lot of people remember it, and everybody else would probably hear about its twists along the way, so it's probably a good idea to get the big ones out of the way right away to minimize insulting the intelligence of the audience by pretending they don't know what's going on.


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## Steeler Mike (May 5, 2005)

I thought it was weird that the female FBI agent said at the secret meeting "That guy is a terrorist!" when viewing the photos. Is that really something an FBI agent should say to a bunch of wackos she just met?

Also, what happened to the agent who waited in the car? Did he die?


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## jones07 (Jan 30, 2001)

DougF said:


> One has to wonder if this was a two-hour pilot that got edited down to an hour. That could explain the odd pace of things.


That was my feeling as well. Some after production editing to get a two-hour pilot down to an one.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It may be a reaction to all the genre shows that have failed in recent years in part because they spent a lot of time setting up the basic premise of the show and audiences just gave up.


Yeah, in that respect it's like the anti-"Invasion", which took for-EVER to get where it was going... and when it did, it was too late.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I didn't mind the pacing as much as some, though I agree it was rushed. I probably didn't mind it as much because the whole time I was comparing it mentally to Flash Forward, which had a much more rushed pace still. It is also a much better show than Flash Forward so far, with more true science fiction in one episode than the entire series of Flash Forward. 

It feels like they are going to go deeper than FF while still having a more thrilling action element. Here, it feels like they rushed to get to the meat of the story, whereas FF rushed to get past all of it. I'll forgive fast pacing if it was all set-up to a good sci-fi main plot anyway.

Although some of the political stuff is overt, it's not quite as jarring as the original series. It feels like they wrote it from the start as science fiction and wrote accordingly. I like all of the updates to their techniques. The modern ways to control a society and individuals themselves and what not. Maybe in the 80's we just hadn't fully developed all of these techniques and so we had to make them look like Nazis.

I don't get the comment in this thread about Vs developing relationships. At least one did. Probably many more. Just because they didn't show it to us yet doesn't mean we are to think it didn't happen.

So far I like it a lot, but no doubt I will be disappointed as the season goes on.


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

MrGreg said:


> At the very beginning, when we first see the front of the church, the guy in the wheelchair is on a landing ~80% of the way up the steps. As far as I can tell, there wasn't a ramp either up or down from this landing. So how did he get there?


Yeah I saw that too. They were trying really hard to portray that church as a homeless hangout-but it looks like someone just put that dude on the wheelchair in the middle of the steps and walked away.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

I liked it. Season pass set. I didn't see the original.

Very intriguing possibilities here.

I too noticed the wheelchair halfway up the steps. Lack of attention to detail there, IMHO.

I also had a "WTF?" moment when Hot Blond Babe from Lost (TM) blurted out, "That guy's a terrorist". She still has no clue who these people she's infiltrated are and whether or not *they're* terrorists or some other dangerous group. It was not credible that she'd blurt it out like that. When I recognized the guy in the photo, I expected the camera to do a CU on her face to catch a muted reaction, but then the outburst.

A handful of "bad writing" details aside, I like the overall premise and felt that the acting and presentation was generally good. I'll keep watching.


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## catcard (Mar 2, 2001)

Steeler Mike said:


> Also, what happened to the agent who waited in the car? Did he die?


Are you talking about her FBI partner? He was one of the undercover V guys who came into the meeting and she ended up killing him in the fight.


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## jeepair (Apr 22, 2004)

catcard said:


> Are you talking about her FBI partner? He was one of the undercover V guys who came into the meeting and she ended up killing him in the fight.


Yes but is he a reoccuring actor on this show or just one episode? Perhaps the V's can easily re-clone him again (like the Arrival.)


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

jeepair said:


> Yes but is he a reoccuring actor on this show or just one episode? Perhaps the V's can easily re-clone him again (like the Arrival.)


Or they could just apply the same skin to another iguanahead with a similar underlying shape. They all look the same to me anyway.


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

jeepair said:


> Yes but is he a reoccuring actor on this show or just one episode? Perhaps the V's can easily re-clone him again (like the Arrival.)





Spoiler



The actor was in the preview at the end for "this season on V" so I'd assume he isn't dead (or like you said he is cloned). I'd go with "not dead" though.


----------



## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

I am glad that a remake of a show that I really liked was done as well as this one - but I agree that the reptile reveal was much too early. Having watched the original mini-series just yesterday, I was surprised that they took a REALLY long time to reveal the lizard factor - but as someone else said - I guess we all know that going in - but still - very rushed.

I also was caught off guard by the aliens living among us twist - - -


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

I really hope the resistance guys took a body of a dead V with them as evidence. 

Am I wrong in remembering that the original series was very action-oriented? I haven't seen it since the 80's (I watched both mini series and the TV series) so I might remember wrong, but in my recollection it was very "resistance mission of the week" style stuff, almost like "Mission: Impossible". Quite a bit if suspense.

Maybe I just remember it that way though. But either way, I hope that's the direction they're taking this.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

And can someone remind me, how was the reveal of the Vs being lizard people done on the original show? IIRC it was done by showing one of them (Diana maybe?)


Spoiler



picking up a mouse and eating it (well, not the reveal, but the first time we were shown that they were not what they pretended to be).


 Was that how it was done?


----------



## USAFSSO (Aug 24, 2005)

DougF said:


> One has to wonder if this was a two-hour pilot that got edited down to an hour. That could explain the odd pace of things.
> 
> ...


I was surprised, it was better than I thought it would be. I did go into it with some prejudges but gave them up after the first commercial break.

I read a USA Today article that it was originally a six-week initial run, to continue in March. Due to production issues they cut it down to 4 episodes. This would explain why it looks like they are rushing the storyline. Don't know if the spring return will be billed as a _Final Battle_. The hiatus was due to the Winter Olympics and some production team changes.

Sure hits some political hot buttons of the time. The article also said it was written in '07 prior to all the current issues.


----------



## loubol (Apr 16, 2003)

I think they are speeding it along because they are only showing 4 episodes in 09 and the remaining 13 wont come until March 2010.


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I liked it a lot. I didn't know anything about the previous V series going in. I didn't think the pacing was too fast but everything just was revealed too fast. It would have been cool to draw out that the aliens were good for awhile longer. 

But I see why they did it like this if everybody but me knew they were evil lizards (besides Scott Wolf spoiling it for me on Conan). Now I'm hoping they get past everything that happened in the original series quickly because I'd hate for every single thread discussion to start talking about spoilers from the old series or what they did in the original series. If the major stuff is out there, hopefully it will be treated just as a new show with new directions.

I thought it was neat that there are already Vs living amongst us. They were creating the terror in the world, but there are some good ones who want to help the humans. Should give us some good surprises.


----------



## nirisahn (Nov 19, 2005)

JoeyJoJo said:


> ...
> 
> The original "V" was a miniseries of only two episodes. My guess is that they're trying to get through all of the "miniseries" intro stuff quickly. It's a shame really.


But it didn't stop there. In 1984 there was the three part V: The Final Battle and 19 episodes of a tv series in 1984-85. So there's already a lot of history established for those of us that watched it the first time around.

So far I'm intrigued enough to keep watching. I agree that too much was crammed into the first episode.

I don't agree that Anna seemed desperate and was begging before the interview. Maybe because I had seen the original and already know they're bad guys but to me, that scene felt threatening.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

nirisahn said:


> I don't agree that Anna seemed desperate and was begging before the interview. Maybe because I had seen the original and already know they're bad guys but to me, that scene felt threatening.


Agreed. It felt more like Kim Jong Il to me than Sunset Boulevard. She manipulated him into keeping the questions positive. Reminds me of Leno and every other late night talk show.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

loubol said:


> I think they are speeding it along because they are only showing 4 episodes in 09 and the remaining 13 wont come until March 2010.


But it's four only because those are the four that were already shot when they made the decision to stop production. So this is largely the first episode they planned all along, with whatever tinkering they later did (apparently, they juiced up the fight scene at the end and added the floaty stabby thing).


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

I don't understand---why didn't the FBI lady take her partner's corpse with her as proof? Why didn't she just call in the FBI after the battle? She even could have called in several different units (and the cops)...

Why didn't the meeting organizer guy take one of the dead visitors and then hold a press conference or something?


----------



## whitson77 (Nov 10, 2002)

I thought it was excellent. Hope it gets great ratings.


----------



## barbeedoll (Sep 26, 2005)

Didn't see the original, but liked the pilot last night. I have too many series that I watch, but almost dread sitting through. (I know I don't have to continue to watch, Flash Forward, Dollhouse, etc., but....)

This one left me feeling grateful that there was one show I would actually look forward to seeing.

I liked that they moved through the obvious plot points; yeah, they aren't really here to help us; yeah, they've infiltrated us; yeah, they are going to manipulate the press; yeah, the young people will think it's cool to go up in a spaceship and support them.

I think the real pleasure will be the conflict between humans trying to search out the aliens and keep their carefully laid plans from working -- despite the fact that they are in their final phase of implementing the destruction of humanity.

But maybe that's just me.

Barbeedoll


----------



## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

MickeS said:


> And can someone remind me, how was the reveal of the Vs being lizard people done on the original show? IIRC it was done by showing one of them (Diana maybe?)
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





Spoiler



Marc Singer was a TV cameraman journalist and he was aboard one of the mother ships and video-taped Diana eating the gerbil. Later on - I could be wrong about whether or not this was the first reveal - Singer goes back to the mothership to rescue the pregnant teenager and gets away by flying one of their mini-ships. That coincides with the visitors attack on the resistance camp and one of the ships gets hit and Diana's face gets partially blown off...



Speaking of which - whatever happened to all those press releases over the summer that Faye Grant, Marc Singer and Jane Badler were all getting cast in the remake? I was assuming it would be as cameos but never heard anything about it again...


----------



## DougF (Mar 18, 2003)

Cainebj said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was for a direct sequel to the original, which never happened. Kenneth Johnson was writing and it was to ignore the events of "The Final Battle" and the series.

It did get released as a book, though. At least I think this was the same story.

http://www.amazon.com/V-Second-Gene...r_1_13?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257355673&sr=8-13


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

DougF said:


> Kenneth Johnson was writing (...)


When I saw the name "Kenneth Johnson", all I could think of was Kenneth Johnson from _The Shield_ and _Saving Grace_...


----------



## aRKade (May 22, 2002)

I can see why the Scott Wolf character hadn't progressed beyond just being a "news reader". I mean c'mon dude, you are doing a live interview and you can't think of asking some tough questions once the interview has started? These are "friendly" aliens, they aren't going to hurt you if you get a little tough with them.

Overall I enjoyed the show. I get the feeling they rushed through the "aliens are lizards" reveal since it was assumed almost everyone knew that since this is a remake. I'll keep watching to see where the different stories go.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

aRKade said:


> I can see why the Scott Wolf character hadn't progressed beyond just being a "news reader". I mean c'mon dude, you are doing a live interview and you can't think of asking some tough questions once the interview has started? These are "friendly" aliens, they aren't going to hurt you if you get a little tough with them.


But they might hurt your career.


----------



## jeepair (Apr 22, 2004)

Another change I noticed from the original was the symboligy of spray painting V's.

In the original, it was to show resistance and it was a symbol of beating the Visitors. In this show, it was for supporting the Visitiors.

I'd like to see the back story of the guy who organized the resistance meeting. How did he know all of this? Is he a V? They need to do a back story (like lost) of this...


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

jeepair said:


> I'd like to see the back story of the guy who organized the resistance meeting. How did he know all of this? Is he a V? They need to do a back story (like lost) of this...


I don't think he is a visitor since he seemed so shocked that the other engagement-ring-guy was a visitor...


----------



## cptodd (Jun 30, 2002)

MickeS said:


> Oh, and I guess the writers have no problem with human/alien love affairs.


Wouldn't that be interspecies love affairs? 

Good show. I barely remember the original but I do remember watching it when I was of a tender age. This one is good as well. I also agree. . . a bit too fast. We already know that "the Vs" are up to no good. I would have liked a bit more tension.


----------



## Legion (Aug 24, 2005)

jeepair said:


> Yes but is he a reoccuring actor on this show or just one episode? Perhaps the V's can easily re-clone him again (like the Arrival.)


That was not just an actor.....that was Hoban "Wash" Washburn.


----------



## catcard (Mar 2, 2001)

Amnesia said:


> I don't understand---why didn't the FBI lady take her partner's corpse with her as proof? Why didn't she just call in the FBI after the battle? She even could have called in several different units (and the cops)...
> 
> Why didn't the meeting organizer guy take one of the dead visitors and then hold a press conference or something?


I'm not sure why they didn't take a dead V/human imposter. But I would think they did not call in other FBI or cops because they really don't know who is NOT V at this point.

My guess (hopefully not a spoiler) the other priest is a V...


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

catcard said:


> But I would think they did not call in other FBI or cops because they really don't know who is NOT V at this point.


That's why I suggested calling in multiple units...


----------



## holee (Dec 12, 2000)

I'm torn. I'd like to watch this show, and the reviews seem good.

But everything I've read indicates it's doomed. The 4 episodes only then no new til March, and the retooling?

I hate getting involved in show, finding out they're cancelled, and then getting even more annoyed when they end on a cliffhanger. :-(


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Steeler Mike said:


> I thought it was weird that the female FBI agent said at the secret meeting "That guy is a terrorist!" when viewing the photos. Is that really something an FBI agent should say to a bunch of wackos she just met?
> 
> Also, what happened to the agent who waited in the car? Did he die?


Missed where he tried to kill his partner?



Cainebj said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Marc Singer was a TV cameraman journalist and he was aboard one of the mother ships and video-taped Diana eating the gerbil. Later on - I could be wrong about whether or not this was the first reveal - Singer goes back to the mothership to rescue the pregnant teenager and gets away by flying one of their mini-ships. That coincides with the visitors attack on the resistance camp and one of the ships gets hit and Diana's face gets partially blown off...


Actually,


Spoiler



Singer was crawling around in the Mothership's airducts and filmed Diana eating the gerbil while making ominous plans.

Singer/Donovan then crawled up the airduct and looked into another Visitor's quarters, whom he caught removing the fake human eyes, which were covering red eyes.

The Vistor then sensew Donovan in the duct and yanks him out.
They fight and in the process, Donovan rips off his mask, revealing the Vistor in all his reptilian glory.



Put me down as agreeing 100% with what Skittles wrote.
It does have potential but the pacing was waaaayyyyyyy, waaaaaayyyyy too rushed and really should have been spread out over two or three episodes.
(Is anyone else as tired of ADD filmmaking as I am?)

I'll keep watching but the fact that production was halted after four episodes for "retooling" does not bode well.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

catcard said:


> My guess (hopefully not a spoiler) the other priest is a V...


It would be nice if they're going for something a little more interesting than usual by setting up some paranoia over who's an alien, who's a human collaborator, and who's a human who is just falling for their shtick. That would also explain why they introduced the alien Spylons so quickly. From here on out, they would then be a lot slower to reveal who is and who isn't an alien, since it would be hard to tell from surface behavior alone.

Then there's the complication of evil aliens and good aliens...

There could be a lot of really cool stuff dealing with identity issues.


----------



## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

DougF said:


> That was for a direct sequel to the original, which never happened. Kenneth Johnson was writing and it was to ignore the events of "The Final Battle" and the series.


Well - I recall when I first heard about a remake and looked it up on the imbd, they listed Grant, Singer and Badler as the cast... however...

Just as recently as August, there was a news report that is still up on the imdb (I would post a link but I'd have to search for the full article...)

"11 August 2009
The producers of the V remake are contemplating casting actors from the original series, it has emerged. Scott Peters, an executive producer on the reboot, revealed that actress Jane Badler, who played villainess alien Diana on the first series, may return to the update. He told Sci-Fi Wire: "Jane Badler has approached our producers and has been in touch here and there." The show's creators are also considering offering roles to Marc Singer and Faye Grant, who led the resistance."

There were other reports that the new producers were having "lunches" with the 3 actors. It may have just been PR.


----------



## zuko3984 (May 4, 2002)

holee said:


> I'm torn. I'd like to watch this show, and the reviews seem good.
> 
> But everything I've read indicates it's doomed. The 4 episodes only then no new til March, and the retooling?
> 
> I hate getting involved in show, finding out they're cancelled, and then getting even more annoyed when they end on a cliffhanger. :-(


Sometimes i feel the same way but if enough people don't watch a show because they think it will be canceled it sort of becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. No one watches a show because they think it will be canceled so it is canceled because no one watched it. So i just watch shows i like and don't worry about cancellation and hope everyone would do the same.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It would be nice if they're going for something a little more interesting than usual by setting up some paranoia over who's an alien, who's a human collaborator, and who's a human who is just falling for their shtick. That would also explain why they introduced the alien Spylons so quickly. From here on out, they would then be a lot slower to reveal who is and who isn't an alien, since it would be hard to tell from surface behavior alone.
> 
> Then there's the complication of evil aliens and good aliens...
> 
> There could be a lot of really cool stuff dealing with identity issues.


Let's just hope that they don't spend two seasons on one guy trying to come up with an iguana detector.


----------



## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

MrGreg said:


> At the very beginning, when we first see the front of the church, the guy in the wheelchair is on a landing ~80% of the way up the steps. As far as I can tell, there wasn't a ramp either up or down from this landing. So how did he get there?







I've seen people with good balance and good arms do sets of 5 without a railing.

--Carlos V.


----------



## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

I don't remember ... did anyone in the show ask, "Hey, if life in the universe is as rare as you say it is, isn't it quite the coincidence that our two species look exactly alike?"


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Shakhari said:


> I don't remember ... did anyone in the show ask, "Hey, if life in the universe is as rare as you say it is, isn't it quite the coincidence that our two species look exactly alike?"


Yes, one of the reporters at the UN asked something like that and Anna said that their scientists can explain it.


----------



## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

JYoung said:


> Actually,
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Actually,


Spoiler



It was a Guinea pig. She probably wouldn't have had to unhinge her jaw for a gerbil


----------



## marrone (Oct 11, 2001)

It really seemed pretty quick to me. I think they expected everyone to be familar with the old series (between those that saw it, and with the media attention, almost everyone would know enough), so they just blew through how the V's (horrible name) are baddies.

I agree with what whoever wrote about hitting the ground running with the series. Lately, shows are taken off so quickly they aren't given a shot to actually do anything with it, so maybe this is their way to get into some of the meat of the series in hopes it will take people's attention.
(The opposite of Stargate: Universe where it's slow going at first but I'm sure will hit its stride once they get the basics out of the way).
I personally prefer the SG:U method...don't rush things. But that's just me. Networks seem to be very trigger happy.

I too wondered about the wheelchair dude...and I usually don't notice things like that.
I doubt he could have climbed those stairs, though. He didn't look like he was in too good of a shape.

But I'm looking forward to a series that hopefully won't be canceled too quickly.

-Mike


----------



## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Steeler Mike said:


> I thought it was weird that the female FBI agent said at the secret meeting "That guy is a terrorist!" when viewing the photos. Is that really something an FBI agent should say to a bunch of wackos she just met?


Yeah, i thought that made the least sense of anything in the whole show.



> Also, what happened to the agent who waited in the car? Did he die?


Yes, when he and his V buddies busted into the meeting, and Juliette killed him.


----------



## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

JETarpon said:


> Yes, when he and his V buddies busted into the meeting, and Juliette killed him.





Spoiler



I don't think that's necessarily true, based on the previews at the end of the show.


----------



## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Spoiler



My tivo cut off right after "this season on V." And has been said, they get to reuse actors, if they choose, with the premise that the human disguise could be worn by a different lizard.



BTW, are spoiler tags for a 25 year old show necessary? Really?



Spoiler



Kristin Shepard shot J.R.


----------



## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

JETarpon said:


> BTW, are spoiler tags for a 25 year old show necessary? Really?


Yes, if it's referencing events in a show other than the one being discussed in the thread.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

JETarpon said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, are spoiler tags for a 25 year old show necessary? Really?





Spoiler



I've looked at all the spoilers and I don't recall anyone spoiling anything that wasn't specifically about this show. There's certainly been plenty of open discussion about the 1980s version of V in this thread without spoiler tags.


----------



## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I've looked at all the spoilers and I don't recall anyone spoiling anything that wasn't specifically about this show. There's certainly been plenty of open discussion about the 1980s version of V in this thread without spoiler tags.


These 2 have nothing to do with this show. They are spoilers of the 80s miniseries.



Cainebj said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Marc Singer was a TV cameraman journalist and he was aboard one of the mother ships and video-taped Diana eating the gerbil. Later on - I could be wrong about whether or not this was the first reveal - Singer goes back to the mothership to rescue the pregnant teenager and gets away by flying one of their mini-ships. That coincides with the visitors attack on the resistance camp and one of the ships gets hit and Diana's face gets partially blown off...





JYoung said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



Henry Blake's plane crashes. He never makes it home.


----------



## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

All the comments about the rushed pace mirror what I felt too. I especially thought the brief storyline of the wheelchair guy, break to talks about healing centers, then he walks! Amazing everyone by standing up, and pain-free. Break to another story line. Scene in church: he has been shot, is bleeding to death and found by priest. He says the visitors killed him, and gives priest the blood-stained piece of paper. Blink! Blink! WOW! that was a fast sub-plot, introduction, development, and end.

Yes, I agree that they are establishing that this is very similar, so put the pieces in place and THEN start the new story.

Actually, the reporter's question about the non-existence of unattractive visitors should have been a red flag to everyone. Their appearance must be a fake. The teenage boys commenting on how hot the V females are is a clue to how they expect to win over the devotion of the youth. Yes, just like Hitler (who really wasn't so good to look at).


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

JETarpon said:


> These 2 have nothing to do with this show. They are spoilers of the 80s miniseries.


You are correct. I forgot about those. I agree that they don't need to be spoiled, although there are several people apparently watching the original show on Syfy and perhaps it's simply respectful to them not to discuss that show in the open. 


Church AV Guy said:


> All the comments about the rushed pace mirror what I felt too. I especially thought the brief storyline of the wheelchair guy, break to talks about healing centers, then he walks! Amazing everyone by standing up, and pain-free. Break to another story line. Scene in church: he has been shot, is bleeding to death and found by priest. He says the visitors killed him, and gives priest the blood-stained piece of paper. Blink! Blink! WOW! that was a fast sub-plot, introduction, development, and end.


I didn't even realize that the guy who got shot and gave the envelope to the priest was the same guy that was previously in the wheelchair. Nice character development, writers!


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

I spoiler tagged the stuff from the original show in case someone might be inspired to seek it out. Seemed reasonable to me.


----------



## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

JETarpon said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Henry Blake's plane helicopter crashes was shot down. He never makes it home.


FYS


----------



## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

MickeS said:


> I spoiler tagged the stuff from the original show in case someone might be inspired to seek it out. Seemed reasonable to me.


me too


----------



## squint (Jun 15, 2008)

catcard said:


> I'm not sure why they didn't take a dead V/human imposter. But I would think they did not call in other FBI or cops because they really don't know who is NOT V at this point.
> 
> My guess (hopefully not a spoiler) the other priest is a V...


I think the Vs would place someone up higher in the church. Maybe even pope. Some kind of reptilian space pope..?


----------



## Haps (Nov 30, 2001)

I think they missed an opportunity to rope in viewers who were watching it fresh. Give them several episodes about the invasion and the good the visitors can bring etc. Make the viewers like the Visitors. Then slam them with the twist.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Haps said:


> Then slam them with the twist.


What a Twist!


----------



## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

JETarpon said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Henry Blake's plane helicopter *plane* crashes was shot down. He never makes it home.





steve614 said:


> FYS


FYFYS.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

squint said:


> I think the Vs would place someone up higher in the church. Maybe even pope. Some kind of *reptilian space pope*..?


"Reptilian Space Pope" goes right to my list of band names I'd use if i was in a band.


----------



## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> I didn't even realize that the guy who got shot and gave the envelope to the priest was the same guy that was previously in the wheelchair. Nice character development, writers!


I'm not home to take another look, but I don't _think_ the guy who got shot was the wheelchair guy. I'm pretty sure it was another guy who we had seen only momentarily in the church congregation earlier in the episode. I'm only saying this because (I suppose as a result of the too-fast pacing everyone is talking about) I remember thinking it was odd that such a major plot point was given over to a character we hadn't even been introduced to yet.

But I could be wrong. It has happened many times before.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

No, I think you're right. Like someone else said, it seemed as if this was a 2-hour pilot edited down to half that length, and no matter if that's the case or not, the last 20 minutes, including the scene you mention in the church, seemed to come out of nowhere and felt very forced.


----------



## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

MickeS said:


> No, I think you're right. Like someone else said, it seemed as if this was a 2-hour pilot edited down to half that length, and no matter if that's the case or not, the last 20 minutes, including the scene you mention in the church, seemed to come out of nowhere and felt very forced.


I really wouldn't mind a "Director's cut" DVD release of the Pilot if this is true.


----------



## alpacaboy (Oct 29, 2004)

MickeS said:


> And can someone remind me, how was the reveal of the Vs being lizard people done on the original show? IIRC it was done by showing one of them (Diana maybe?)
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Are you talking about the reveal to us, the tv audience, or the reveal to the general public of the world of V? I remember at the Medical Center,


Spoiler



The resistance had a raid, and on live tv, Julie ripped off part of Supreme Commander John's face. (Though Diana denied it and reshot it with a captive audience)



RE: Kenneth Johnson - it amuses me that he was also the creator of the original Bionic Woman series. I was just watching the whole Season 1 on Hulu a couple weeks ago... Boy, Lindsay Wagner is pretty...

It did feel like this version of V (at least the Pilot) was aimed at people who liked the original. This felt like "remember the main story points of the original? This is what we're keeping, and this is what we're changing. Okay, GO!" I was fine with that. I'm eagerly awaiting more Laura Vanervoort (the cute blonde visitor)


----------



## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

JETarpon said:


> Yes, when he and his V buddies busted into the meeting, and Juliette killed him.


After he gets skewered, I blurted "I'm a leaf on the wind!"

Oh, drat. Did I spoil another movie?

--Carlos V.


----------



## whitson77 (Nov 10, 2002)

Solid Ratings. Hopefully it keeps them up.


----------



## Tangent (Feb 25, 2005)

squint said:


> I think the Vs would place someone up higher in the church. Maybe even pope. Some kind of reptilian space pope..?


----------



## Steeler Mike (May 5, 2005)

JYoung said:


> Missed where he tried to kill his partner?


With so little character development, I haven't committed to memmory all of the characters names or what all of them look like yet. So yeah, I missed that he was her partner. I just thought he was a memeber of the meeting.


----------



## Spire (Jun 6, 2001)

LoadStar said:


> I think if there was anything that bugged me, it was that they referred to the Visitors as "the V's."


What's next -- calling extraterrestrials _ET_s?


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Spire said:


> What's next -- calling extraterrestrials _ET_s?


I know you were being a bit facetious, but something like "extra terrestrials" is a long enough name that it makes some sense to abbreviate it. "Visitors" is already a short, one-word name and not really in need to abbreviate it.


----------



## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

JETarpon said:


> FYFYS.


Hah, I'll have to go back and watch that episode (I have them on DVD).
I could have sworn that


Spoiler



the helicopter was shot down before he got to the plane.


.

Oh well, enough of the off topic banter.


----------



## kimsan (Jan 23, 2002)

The pacing and lack of development might really hurt this version in the long run. It leaves the viewer asking why the Visitors are almost universally trusted (though we really haven't seen that demonstrated as a fact yet) and why there would be an militant rebel force organizing against them. The reveals of their true nature and the existence of alien "moles" was way too abrupt.

That said, I'll give it a little room to find it's legs and see how they update the story of the resistance.

I'm sure there will still be the hints about collaborators and the surrendering of rights to a "benevolent" greater force, but it's been a long time since WWII and old Jewish grandfathers who survived the Holocaust with cautionary wisdom are tougher to find nowadays.

As noted elsewhere, Scott Wolf still looks like a little kid (as noted repeatedly by my wife), though close ups do at least age him around the mouth. Maybe not the best choice for the role, though I understand there's a waiter opening at a small family owned restaurant


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> I know you were being a bit facetious, but something like "extra terrestrials" is a long enough name that it makes some sense to abbreviate it. "Visitors" is already a short, one-word name and not really in need to abbreviate it.


Doesn't have the same ring as Vs to me. If I had to choose between the two, I'd go with V.


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## kimsan (Jan 23, 2002)

LoadStar said:


> I know you were being a bit facetious, but something like "extra terrestrials" is a long enough name that it makes some sense to abbreviate it. "Visitors" is already a short, one-word name and not really in need to abbreviate it.


And when you really think about it, ALIEN rolls off the tongue so much more easily than any of those


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## MrGreg (May 2, 2003)

squint said:


> I think the Vs would place someone up higher in the church. Maybe even pope. Some kind of reptilian space pope..?


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## cptodd (Jun 30, 2002)

MrGreg said:


>


Much too funny!!!!!!!


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## hanumang (Jan 28, 2002)

Langree said:


> I really wouldn't mind a "Director's cut" DVD release of the Pilot if this is true.


I'm afraid it's _not_ true.

The pilot was written as a single episode but, as script reviews around the web show (e.g. TheFutonCritic _script_ review), it was heavily altered by the time it was shot, way back during pilot season (The Futon Critic _pilot_ review).

I liked it. I remember the Original (Mini-)series scaring the life out of me (as a little lad) and went in with absolutely _zero_ expectations on the 're-imagining.' Not perfect, but since they got everything set up (however clumsily) and I actually like someone of their story tweaks, I'm willing to ride it out. Season Pass confirmed.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

kimsan said:


> The pacing and lack of development might really hurt this version in the long run. It leaves the viewer asking why the Visitors are almost universally trusted (though we really haven't seen that demonstrated as a fact yet) and why there would be an militant rebel force organizing against them. The reveals of their true nature and the existence of alien "moles" was way too abrupt.


It seems like if the resistance already knew about the true nature of the Vs, and even had some V traitors among them, they would already know the real reason why the Vs had come to earth and that would have been the main topic of discussion at the resistance meeting. Why reveal all the stuff that was revealed in this episode and keep the true motivation a secret?


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

TAsunder said:


> Doesn't have the same ring as Vs to me. If I had to choose between the two, I'd go with V.


Much too much other meaning for Viagra and isn't that what they call vampire blood on TRUE BLOOD?


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

Other than the fact that I think they could have stretched this one episode out to a whole season, I liked it.


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## ShellWitch (Jan 6, 2009)

kimsan said:


> The pacing and lack of development might really hurt this version in the long run. It leaves the viewer asking why the Visitors are almost universally trusted (though we really haven't seen that demonstrated as a fact yet) and why there would be an militant rebel force organizing against them. The reveals of their true nature and the existence of alien "moles" was way too abrupt.


I got the impression that the Vs were trusted because they set up the health clinics. Curing everything from spinal damage to cancer to cystic fibrosis would make a lot of people very happy. Also I think that it has gone past trusting them to starting to worship them. It was the idea of devotion being the best weapon they are arming themselves with.

My favorite part doesn't add much to the plot but I liked the fact that all the people at the meeting had that cut in the shape of a V behind their ears. That would heal up to a scar in the shape of a V. I don't know why I liked that so much. I guess it is the little things that get me.


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## alpacaboy (Oct 29, 2004)

Something I didn't like was the kids tagging "V" in support of the Visitors. It's like the opposite of the original - Grampa-type showing how to spray paint a V for Victory as a symbol of the resistance.

Oh, and I miss the pitch bend voices.


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## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

alpacaboy said:


> Something I didn't like was the kids tagging "V" in support of the Visitors. It's like the opposite of the original - Grampa-type showing how to spray paint a V for Victory as a symbol of the resistance.
> 
> Oh, and I miss the pitch bend voices.


Yea, and another opposite is that they are ASKING for water this time. In the original series, they were taking our fresh water on the sly.


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## cptodd (Jun 30, 2002)

I keep wondering if that fake skin is comfy for the V?


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> It seems like if the resistance already knew about the true nature of the Vs, and even had some V traitors among them, they would already know the real reason why the Vs had come to earth and that would have been the main topic of discussion at the resistance meeting. Why reveal all the stuff that was revealed in this episode and keep the true motivation a secret?


Maybe they had already discussed that topic to death in previous meetings and were sick of talking about it?


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

Church AV Guy said:


> All the comments about the rushed pace mirror what I felt too. I especially thought the brief storyline of the wheelchair guy, break to talks about healing centers, then he walks! Amazing everyone by standing up, and pain-free. Break to another story line. Scene in church: he has been shot, is bleeding to death and found by priest. He says the visitors killed him, and gives priest the blood-stained piece of paper. Blink! Blink! WOW! that was a fast sub-plot, introduction, development, and end.
> 
> Yes, I agree that they are establishing that this is very similar, so put the pieces in place and THEN start the new story.
> 
> Actually, the reporter's question about the non-existence of unattractive visitors should have been a red flag to everyone. Their appearance must be a fake. The teenage boys commenting on how hot the V females are is a clue to how they expect to win over the devotion of the youth. Yes, just like Hitler (who really wasn't so good to look at).


The reporter's question about ugly visitors grated on me. At that point we had only seen a projection of 1 visitor, and the same visitor was just coming in for the 1st meeting with the UN. So how does he know how they look?


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

A few thoughts about the pilot:

1: Like most here it seemed way too rushed. 
2: Love the updated ships. way cool.
3: Like the idea that there are already Visitors among us as in sleeper cells. Some good Some bad. Who is who?
4: Some really bad writing/plotting. Re: the reporter asking if there were any ugly visitors when that was the 1st we had seen in teh flesh so to speak.
5: Resistance set up way to quickly.
6: Hate the reporter. He would've made a good used car salesman, don't get the reporter vibe from him.
7: It has potential so it stays.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Craigbob said:


> The reporter's question about ugly visitors grated on me. At that point we had only seen a projection of 1 visitor, and the same visitor was just coming in for the 1st meeting with the UN. So how does he know how they look?


IIRC, the scene at the UN was after the Vs had been there for over three weeks and it's safe to assume that many more Vs other than just Anna had been seen by that point.


Craigbob said:


> A few thoughts about the pilot:
> 
> 5: Resistance set up way to quickly.


From what I could tell by the relationship between the main resistance guy and his black friend, the resistance has been in place for a long time, long before the Vs actually showed up.

But of course with how quickly the pilot was rushed, there's no way you would actually know these things.


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## alpacaboy (Oct 29, 2004)

Craigbob said:


> The reporter's question about ugly visitors grated on me. At that point we had only seen a projection of 1 visitor, and the same visitor was just coming in for the 1st meeting with the UN. So how does he know how they look?


Plus, I didn't think the press secretary visitor guy standing right behind Anna was that good looking...


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## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

ShellWitch said:


> I got the impression that the Vs were trusted because they set up the health clinics. Curing everything from spinal damage to cancer to cystic fibrosis would make a lot of people very happy. Also I think that it has gone past trusting them to starting to worship them. It was the idea of devotion being the best weapon they are arming themselves with.


Ever since we humans became self-aware and could contemplate our own mortality, we've considered the power to heal to be an attribute of the divine. Every benevolent deity we've ever conceived of has had that power. If you want our devotion, that's the way to go.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

like lots of other people have already said, it was paced like a two hour episode condensed down to a one hour episode. I didn't think it was all that great but it was good enough for me to keep watching.


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## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

I assumed the address "4400" was a nod to that show - nicely done


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

MrGreg said:


> At the very beginning, when we first see the front of the church, the guy in the wheelchair is on a landing ~80% of the way up the steps. As far as I can tell, there wasn't a ramp either up or down from this landing. So how did he get there?


Said the same thing to my wife in that scene.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Let's just hope that they don't spend two seasons on one guy trying to come up with an iguana detector.


Hah! Excellent :up: :up:


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

Craigbob said:


> A few thoughts about the pilot:
> 6: Hate the reporter. He would've made a good used car salesman, don't get the reporter vibe from him.


He wasn't a reporter, wasn't he just an anchor? He is just a pretty face to read the news. Think of all the great anchors we have now. How many of them actually go out and investigate the news? They just read what they are told by producers and provide lead-in for videos segments.

As for the interview with Anna, think of someone like Larry King. He is so clueless and refuses to ask a question that wasn't prepackaged for him. I remember reading that Larry King doesn't even use the Internet. How in the world does he research his guests? He doesn't.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Magister said:


> He wasn't a reporter, wasn't he just an anchor?


It seemed very clear to me that he was patterned after Billy Bush:
http://www.accesshollywood.com/content/images/63/400x400bd/63554_billy-bush.jpg



Magister said:


> He is just a pretty face to read the news. Think of all the great anchors we have now. How many of them actually go out and investigate the news? They just read what they are told by producers and provide lead-in for videos segments.


I think it is even more extreme than that. Decker was not the "the anchor" of a major network news program (Williams, Couric, Gibson, etc.) AFAIK.



Magister said:


> As for the interview with Anna, think of someone like Larry King. He is so clueless and refuses to ask a question that wasn't prepackaged for him. I remember reading that Larry King doesn't even use the Internet. How in the world does he research his guests? He doesn't.


Again, I think it is even more extreme than that. Larry King is already a legend. This guy is just trying to make it so that when his looks begin to fade he isn't replaced by some other pretty himbo. He could have made Anna look terrible, and he'd probably have been famous for a few days (*regardless *of whether Anna ends up being a "winner" or "loser", in the grand scheme of things). Working with Anna -- clearly someone who is going to be in a position to make or break a news person's career for a while -- working *with* her is far *more likely *to secure fame long-term (i.e., as long as Anna "wins").

I think only an anti-pragmatist or an idiot would make a choice different than Chad made. And a "good journalist" is, by definition, an anti-pragmatist -- putting aside what is likely to be better for themselves for the greater good. Decker was clearly not intended to be a "good journalist".


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

I had been waiting expectantly for V. Dunno about the show. Loved the special effects but what modern show doesn't have CGI if it's in the budget. Plot did move awfully fast even though in the internet age most SF fans probably knew the original series' secrets. I do have the hots for Anna and for 'Juliette' the FBI agent, even though she's scripted stupid enough to blurt out "But he's a terrorist!!!" to a bunch of ARMED folks she just met and doesn't know.

Who knew that a cloned human flesh overlay makes lizards get a serious jones for well endowed 'mamillian' Earth babes? Must be something in the skin hormones.

The V intro so far pales in comparison to the absolutely excellent BSG intro mini-series.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

bicker said:


> I think it is even more extreme than that. Decker was not the "the anchor" of a major network news program (Williams, Couric, Gibson, etc.) AFAIK.


The news show he was on appeared to be one of those mid-day shows on cable news. That's part of the point... he's ambitious and wants to be one of the famous news anchors, but is being overlooked by the network he works for because he's completely replaceable and completely nondescript.

Edit: correction, going back in watching, he's the host of a news program called "Prime Focus." The show was being rebroadcast during the morning hours, which would seem to lean towards it being on cable news. (Broadcast TV would likely not rebroadcast a news program during morning hours.) Being called "Prime Focus," it's probably not a midday program... early to mid evening, perhaps.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

Fleegle said:


> Yea, and another opposite is that they are ASKING for water this time. In the original series, they were taking our fresh water on the sly.


Ahhhh I couldn't remember what they were stealing in the original. For some reason I remember them sneaking on board the main ship and finding a room full of containers, but I remembered it as people until your post. So maybe since they are asking for water they will take people on the sly now...for fooood


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

LoadStar said:


> Edit: correction, going back in watching, he's the host of a news program called "Prime Focus." The show was being rebroadcast during the morning hours, which would seem to lean towards it being on cable news. (Broadcast TV would likely not rebroadcast a news program during morning hours.) Being called "Prime Focus," it's probably not a midday program... early to mid evening, perhaps.


I think you just gave this more thought than the writers did.  They probably just wanted him on in the background, and didn't care more than that.

I agree that he seems like one of those daytime cable news guys that nobody knows the name of.

He's by far the weakest part of this show's cast.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Am I the only one who sees the resemblance?


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

I don't understand this idea that they show 4 episodes and then none till march. Why are they doing that?


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## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

DavidTigerFan said:


> I don't understand this idea that they show 4 episodes and then none till march. Why are they doing that?


Olympics



> ABC's series remake of "V" has landed, and 13.9 million viewers were there to welcome it.
> 
> *The show, which will run for four episodes through November and then return post-Olympics in March,* came in second to CBS' "NCIS" but won its 8-9 p.m. time slot among adults 18-49 (a 5.0 rating, according to preliminary numbers.)
> 
> For the full ratings breakdown (and to discover what the original 1983 series scored in its


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Yes. I wouldn't be surprised, if they tried to run the series through the Olympics (assuming that they even had episodes to present -- they've had production problems that might have precluded that), that so few viewers would watch the show consistently that the show might not even make it to March.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Test said:


> For some reason I remember them sneaking on board the main ship and finding a room full of containers, but I remembered it as people until your post.





Spoiler



No, it was people, too. First we saw the water, then "wait, it gets worse..."

Also, in the original, I got the impression that the _primary_ purpose of abducting humans was to convert them into soldiers for the Visitors' war against a third group, with only those unsuitable to be soldiers to be made food. Which made a little more sense to me; I hadn't remembered that part until I saw it again the other day.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Olympics are only two weeks, so I don't think that fully explains the hiatus.


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

Church AV Guy said:


> All the comments about the rushed pace mirror what I felt too. I especially thought the brief storyline of the wheelchair guy, break to talks about healing centers, then he walks! Amazing everyone by standing up, and pain-free. Break to another story line. Scene in church: he has been shot, is bleeding to death and found by priest. He says the visitors killed him, and gives priest the blood-stained piece of paper. Blink! Blink! WOW! that was a fast sub-plot, introduction, development, and end.





DevdogAZ said:


> I didn't even realize that the guy who got shot and gave the envelope to the priest was the same guy that was previously in the wheelchair. Nice character development, writers!


I went back and checked, and you are correct. It was NOT the wheelchair guy who was killed by the visitors and gave the priest the blood-stained piece of paper. It was someone I don't think had a single line prior to that. This is even worse, because they killed someone that we didn't even have a shread of emotional attachment to. How is that good drama? Priest walks in, sees man in a pew. Man says, good sermon father, we need to be suspicious of the visitors, oh, and they shot me! HUH?

My mistake is partially understandable because both actors, together, had less than thirty seconds of screen time. Not really enough to establish either as an actual character.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

wmcbrine said:


> The Olympics are only two weeks, so I don't think that fully explains the hiatus.


Isn't it because of the production halt? I thought that was mentioned here - possibly in this thread.


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## barbeedoll (Sep 26, 2005)

Church AV Guy said:


> I went back and checked, and you are correct. It was NOT the wheelchair guy who was killed by the visitors and gave the priest the blood-stained piece of paper. It was someone I don't think had a single line prior to that. This is even worse, because they killed someone that we didn't even have a shread of emotional attachment to. How is that good drama? Priest walks in, sees man in a pew. Man says, good sermon father, we need to be suspicious of the visitors, oh, and they shot me! HUH?
> 
> My mistake is partially understandable because both actors, together, had less than thirty seconds of screen time. Not really enough to establish either as an actual character.


Interesting! I had thought it was wheelchair guy and that somehow in the "healing" they had done something that enabled them to hurt him at will. Guess I just made that part up in my mind from the few words and short, short scene.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Barbeedoll


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## marrone (Oct 11, 2001)

Test said:


> Ahhhh I couldn't remember what they were stealing in the original. For some reason I remember them sneaking on board the main ship and finding a room full of containers, but I remembered it as people until your post. So maybe since they are asking for water they will take people on the sly now...for fooood


I believe the Visitors were operating some plant, and they had a huge tube that was sucking 1,000,000 gal/sec into one of the motherships. They found that out because the resistance stumbled upon the plant (I think they were going to blow it up or something).

-Mike


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

gchance said:


> Not sure I know who that is, but did you see this resemblance? It was bad to the point of distraction.


This is what David Byrne looks like:








Are you saying that you were actually *distracted* because you think the actor in _V_ looks similar to how a singer looked 20 years ago or os?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

barbeedoll said:


> Interesting! I had thought it was wheelchair guy and that somehow in the "healing" they had done something that enabled them to hurt him at will. Guess I just made that part up in my mind from the few words and short, short scene.
> 
> Thanks for clearing that up.
> 
> Barbeedoll


They showed the guy in the pew during his sermon. he had an agreeing look with what the priest was saying about the Visitors.

So when he showed up later injured it made sense.


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## SugarBowl (Jan 5, 2007)

DevdogAZ said:


> It seems like if the resistance already knew about the true nature of the Vs, and even had some V traitors among them, they would already know the real reason why the Vs had come to earth and that would have been the main topic of discussion at the resistance meeting. Why reveal all the stuff that was revealed in this episode and keep the true motivation a secret?


I don't think they knew about the V traitors until the guy showed his split-open arm to his friend.

They never mentioned why the Visitors were bad, only that they were lizards underneath. I guess being a lizard makes you bad ?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

SugarBowl said:


> I don't think they knew about the V traitors until the guy showed his split-open arm to his friend.
> 
> They never mentioned why the Visitors were bad, only that they were lizards underneath. I guess being a lizard makes you bad ?


What do you mean they never mentioned it? The lead resistance dude talked about how they were destabilizing the economy and doing all sorts of other nefarious things...


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

gchance said:


> Are you saying that I'm stupid because I noticed that every time an actor was onscreen I thought, "Look, it's David Byrne"?
> 
> Why is this happening more and more frequently on TCF? Make an observation and someone calls you a moron.


"Stupid"? "Moron"? Where did I say those words?

I just expressed surprise that a resemblance between how an actor looks today and how a singer looked 20 years ago could be distracting. I said or implied absolutely nothing about your intelligence or lack thereof.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

gchance said:


> Oh shut up. Your observation wasn't entertaining, didn't add anything to the conversation, wasn't funny, and was worded to make me sound stupid.


No, I had absolutely no thought of you as stupid...before this post. I was honestly just surprised at the idea.

My previous reply was an rational, adult attempt to explain how I came to write my original Byrne posting; if "oh shut up" is your reaction to the explanation and general attitude on these boards, it's no wonder that you feel people react negatively to you...


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## Mars Rocket (Mar 24, 2000)

Amnesia said:


> I don't understand---why didn't the FBI lady take her partner's corpse with her as proof? Why didn't she just call in the FBI after the battle? She even could have called in several different units (and the cops)...
> 
> Why didn't the meeting organizer guy take one of the dead visitors and then hold a press conference or something?


These were my thoughts exactly. If you're not sure who to trust, call everybody and then stand back. At the very least get all the media involved.

I thought the show itself suffered from unbelievable characters making stupid decisions and reacting in ways that didn't make sense. I'll watch it through another episode or two, but if it remains stupid then that'll be the end of it for me.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

SugarBowl said:


> ...I guess being a lizard makes you bad ?


freakin' stereotypes....:down:


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

SugarBowl said:


> They never mentioned why the Visitors were bad, only that they were lizards underneath. I guess being a lizard makes you bad ?


Obviously. Has Scientology taught us nothing?


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

SugarBowl said:


> I don't think they knew about the V traitors until the guy showed his split-open arm to his friend.
> 
> They never mentioned why the Visitors were bad, only that they were lizards underneath. I guess being a lizard makes you bad ?


It certainly indicates a level of deception.

"Are all Visitors as good looking as you?" The answer given was not "Well, we are all actually reptilian and what you see is a cloned human flesh exterior, so we can make ourselves as attractive, by your standards, as we wish to be."


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

The speech the cell leader gave focused on the things the Vs had done that were bad, and mentioned the lizard skin only as a means of identification. So no, the show made clear that being a lizard was NOT why they were bad. Starting "unnecessary wars" is what made them bad, among other things.  Someone mentioned David Icke earlier in the thread, it really seemed to me as the writers were inspired by his rantings...


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I think they missed out on a major character development and direction by making the anchor Acquiesce to the demands of a fluff interview...

had he called her bluff, she would not have canceled the live interview just moments before it started...that character would then have been a strong personality that could play off Anna's dominating style...


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Anubys said:


> I think they missed out on a major character development and direction by making the anchor Acquiesce to the demands of a fluff interview...
> 
> had he called her bluff, she would not have canceled the live interview just moments before it started...that character would then have been a strong personality that could play off Anna's dominating style...


If he called her bluff, it would only have been a quick interview and his otherwise seemingly bountiful career as the one-on-one V interviewer would be dead-ended. By acquiescing to her needs, he made a career move. I think they played that perfectly because they set-up his power hunger earlier in the episode. The Vs are using every tool available to control people, be it mass marketing, medical care, career incentives, etc.

I don't think they missed anything here. The character development is, we get to see what sort of person he is when he's finally faced with a tough choice.


----------



## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

TAsunder said:


> If he called her bluff, it would only have been a quick interview and his otherwise seemingly bountiful career as the one-on-one V interviewer would be dead-ended. By acquiescing to her needs, he made a career move. I think they played that perfectly because they set-up his power hunger earlier in the episode. The Vs are using every tool available to control people, be it mass marketing, medical care, career incentives, etc.
> 
> I don't think they missed anything here. The character development is, we get to see what sort of person he is when he's finally faced with a tough choice.


Or it could have been a life ending experience - to be replaced by a clone to their bidding.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> If he called her bluff, it would only have been a quick interview and his otherwise seemingly bountiful career as the one-on-one V interviewer would be dead-ended. By acquiescing to her needs, he made a career move. I think they played that perfectly because they set-up his power hunger earlier in the episode. The Vs are using every tool available to control people, be it mass marketing, medical care, career incentives, etc.
> 
> I don't think they missed anything here. The character development is, we get to see what sort of person he is when he's finally faced with a tough choice.


Exactly...they picked him because he was an ambitious, talentless nobody. His only hope of hitting the big time was to play along.

(That might be why they cut the scene with him and the Vice President...it made him look too successful.)


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Jebberwocky! said:


> Or it could have been a life ending experience - to be replaced by a clone to their bidding.


But HE had no knowlege of that threat.

I agree that his character had been set up to provide sufficient rationalization for his cave in actions.

Back to your clone idea. Given that the show states that Lizzies had been infiltrating for years, why not have them infiltrate the media and have Anna interviewed by one of her own? After all, she picked the reporter; she coulda picked a very hunky attractive media Lizard bimbo instead.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

philw1776 said:


> Back to your clone idea. Given that the show states that Lizzies had been infiltrating for years, why not have them infiltrate the media and have Anna interviewed by one of her own? After all, she picked the reporter; she coulda picked a very hunky attractive media Lizard bimbo instead.


Good point.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> Back to your clone idea. Given that the show states that Lizzies had been infiltrating for years, why not have them infiltrate the media and have Anna interviewed by one of her own? After all, she picked the reporter; she coulda picked a very hunky attractive media Lizard bimbo instead.


They already have their own people in their pocket. They need to get the outsiders, like this media bimbo, on board. That's the whole point of their final stage of the take-over, like with the "peace ambassadors".


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

MickeS said:


> They already have their own people in their pocket. *They need to get the outsiders, like this media bimbo, on board*. That's the whole point of their final stage of the take-over, like with the "peace ambassadors".


No, they woulda, coulda, shoulda done the basics like that previously. After all they infiltrated the freakin FBI, so how hard is it to build an attractive good looking TV news bimbo? Not. Very.


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## barbeedoll (Sep 26, 2005)

Jebberwocky! said:


> Good point.


Good point. I often have ideas about how show plotlines could or should go, too.

For me, the only joy I can find is to let go of how I would write it and try to go along with the writers. I'm talking to myself, not you....as I don't want to distract myself with frustration about why the writers chose certain plot lines. I often find that as the series plays out, I see why they set things up as they did. I hope that is the case here.

Glass/plotline half full? 

Barbeedoll


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

Church AV Guy said:


> I went back and checked, and you are correct. It was NOT the wheelchair guy who was killed by the visitors and gave the priest the blood-stained piece of paper. It was someone I don't think had a single line prior to that. This is even worse, because they killed someone that we didn't even have a shread of emotional attachment to. How is that good drama?


I don't think we were supposed to feel sad that the person died. The person dying was merely the catalyst for getting the priest involved with the rebels.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> No, they woulda, coulda, shoulda done the basics like that previously. After all they infiltrated the freakin FBI, so how hard is it to build an attractive good looking TV news bimbo? Not. Very.


You're missing the point. Hell, she didn't need to be interviewed in the first place, they could have just done another broadcast. What they NEED is the trust and endorsement of non-Vs.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

philw1776 said:


> No, they woulda, coulda, shoulda done the basics like that previously. After all they infiltrated the freakin FBI, so how hard is it to build an attractive good looking TV news bimbo? Not. Very.


Infiltration isn't the problem, remaining covert is. The person interviewing the spokesperson for the Vs would be far more recognizable than a random FBI agent.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

MickeS said:


> You're missing the point. Hell, she didn't need to be interviewed in the first place, they could have just done another broadcast. What they NEED is the trust and endorsement of non-Vs.


What IS the point? Nobody except a few even know there are non Vs. Better to have your own controlled flak. And those cretins who DO know about the stealth Vs are simply SO stupid that even knowing how to detect a dead Lizard by cuting behind the ear, they haven't thought to bring one to a TV news station.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

BitbyBlit said:


> Infiltration isn't the problem, remaining covert is. The person interviewing the spokesperson for the Vs would be far more recognizable than a random FBI agent.


Recognizable by whom? The person is your basic local news bimbo. Period.

Just happens to have secret scales underneath. After all the banker has fooled his fiancee up close and personal.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

unless you can tell them apart I would think someone on your team would be better than trying to control someone on the other side.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

philw1776 said:


> What IS the point? Nobody except a few even know there are non Vs. Better to have your own controlled flak. And those cretins who DO know about the stealth Vs are simply SO stupid that even knowing how to detect a dead Lizard by cuting behind the ear, they haven't thought to bring one to a TV news station.


Well, sooner or later the public will find out. If they discover that the interviews are total shams conducted by Vs against Vs, it will be a PR disaster


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> Well, sooner or later the public will find out. If they discover that the interviews are total shams conducted by Vs against Vs, it will be a PR disaster


Of course. But a little forethought also says that sooner or later Joe Public's gonna be a wee bit upset that like the freakin FBI has been infiltrated by Lizards that go around killing people. Folks aren't gonna be happy about the infiltration if  I mean when, it's revealed.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> What IS the point? Nobody except a few even know there are non Vs. Better to have your own controlled flak. And those cretins who DO know about the stealth Vs are simply SO stupid that even knowing how to detect a dead Lizard by cuting behind the ear, they haven't thought to bring one to a TV news station.


When **** hits the fan, it's MUCH better to have trusted people on the other side than only people who are already on your side. That's the entire point of what they're doing, with the media and the "peace ambassadors". They could have one of their own doing the interview, but it would be pointless - that person would already be on board. They're trying to hook someone who is on the other side to become so dependent on them, that he will do their bidding. The point of the interview was never the broadcast result - they could have achieved that by any other means. They picked a person who they feel is "up and coming" and I would bet they could pull a few strings (besides exclusive access) to kick his career up a few notches.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> Well, sooner or later the public will find out. If they discover that the interviews are total shams conducted by Vs against Vs, it will be a PR disaster


I don't think that matters, as much as it matters to have people from the other side in the media that will help you to prevent it in the first place. If this bimbo finds out he's been duped and that exposing the Vs would destroy his career, will he do it? After this exclusive interview, and after him basically becoming their spokesperson, it is much less likely that it would happen.

Not much different than what's going on with the media in the real world today. For example, the point of "embedding" journalists during the initial stages of the occupation of Iraq was less about the reporting at the time, it was about getting the reporters to feel like THEY sided with our government, because that would help the government disseminate their message much easier later on, with much less risk of damaging information - few journalists would want to admit that they were duped.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

philw1776 said:


> Recognizable by whom? The person is your basic local news bimbo. Period.


How many celebrities do you know of who have had an affair? How many FBI agents do you know of who have had an affair? It is far more likely that a celebrity's secret will be found out than someone not in the spotlight. What happens when someone decides to do a biography about "the reporter who came from obscurity to get exclusive interviews with the Vs"?


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

More and more it looks like TV show writer sock puppets are posting here with elaborate ex post facto rationalizations for plot holes.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> I think if there was anything that bugged me, it was that they referred to the Visitors as "the V's." I don't know why... probably because it's a bit too self-referential. I liked that "V" in the original was a little more obscure, having multiple meanings. Plus, "V's" seems a bit too "slang," if you will. It'd be like referring to Americans as "A's."


... or "A-holes". 

Yeah, the whole referring to themselves as "V's" reminded me of "Lost" with all the "Others" references. Especially when Juliet responded to a question by saying "because I'm an 'Other'." Ugh!

But I liked the show and will stick with it until it jumps the shark, as "Heroes" did for me part way into Season 2.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

philw1776 said:


> More and more it looks like TV show writer sock puppets are posting here with elaborate ex post facto rationalizations for plot holes.


How incredibly self-serving and rude. People disagree with you Phil. Get used to it. As an adult, you'll have to deal with that all the time.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> More and more it looks like TV show writer sock puppets are posting here with elaborate ex post facto rationalizations for plot holes.


  

Maybe we could at least wait with the plot hole accusation until we see if it IS a plot hole...


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

bicker said:


> How incredibly self-serving and rude. People disagree with you Phil. Get used to it. As an adult, you'll have to deal with that all the time.


That's assuming he ever grew up....


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

It eventually happens to all of us. My wife started razzing me today about my advancing age (it's my birthday) and I reminded her that she's had an AARP card for about five years already.


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## Fassade (Apr 8, 2004)

bicker said:


> It eventually happens to all of us. My wife started razzing me today about my advancing age (it's my birthday) and I reminded her that she's had an AARP card for about five years already.


Happy Birthday, Old Timer! Remember, she may get the discount at Denny's, but today you eat free!


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## Snappa77 (Feb 14, 2004)

kimsan said:


> As noted elsewhere, Scott Wolf still looks like a little kid (as noted repeatedly by my wife), though close ups do at least age him around the mouth.


I think he looks like the leader of the Visitors Anna. They do resemble each other. Same surgeon perhaps? j/k


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## jk5598224 (Jan 29, 2003)

I have finished watching V and am finishing watching V: The Final Battle. The mini series, although slightly dated are really good. I can only hope the repurposed version will be the same.


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## HTH (Aug 28, 2000)

jones07 said:


> Oh please, not Michael Ironside playin a bad ass again. Talk about playing the same role all the [email protected] time.
> 
> I really like Ironside since first seeing him in War of the worlds. But even he must be sick of doing the same role over an over again


That wasn't Michael Ironside. The character of Colonel Paul Iron*horse* was played by Richard Chaves. Richard Chaves was also in Predator.


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## HTH (Aug 28, 2000)

DougF said:


> That was for a direct sequel to the original, which never happened. Kenneth Johnson was writing and it was to ignore the events of "The Final Battle" and the series.
> 
> It did get released as a book, though. At least I think this was the same story.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/V-Second-Gene...r_1_13?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257355673&sr=8-13


I have that book! Bought it on impulse a few months ago. Hardcover. I just haven't got around to reading it yet.

I do remember reading a bit of something on-line about continuing the original. I have no idea if this is in that book, or another, or will be part of this series, so I'll tag this.


Spoiler



I read a literary description of a scene showing how The Visitors had their human skin applied, which would have included a full-body nude image of them in their lizard form, but that it was considered too expensive an effect then. Also, a bar scene where patrons were pricked on the finger to prove they had human blood, and The Visitors adapting by adding a blood bag under their fake skin (but that it wouldn't clot was a giveaway). Also, an unbreakable slave bracelet a woman had placed on her when she was as a child, now getting uncomfortably small. She was accepting the fact that some day it will cut off her circulation and she'll have to have her hand amputated.



Also, I believe there was a chemical the Visitors requested in the original as well,


Spoiler



but once they had it on board, they dumped it off their ships. Some of their people were griping about wasting their time hauling it up to the ships just to dump it out. It wasn't the water they were dumping. The chemical was just a cover for what they were really after (other than the water). And no followup on the effects of dumping the chemical in our atmosphere.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

Nice ep.


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

HTH said:


> I have that book! Bought it on impulse a few months ago. Hardcover. I just haven't got around to reading it yet.
> 
> I do remember reading a bit of something on-line about continuing the original. I have no idea if this is in that book, or another, or will be part of this series, so I'll tag this.
> 
> ...


I don't recall that either from the original book or miniseries nor from the 2nd book. It sounds cool though.



> Also, I believe there was a chemical the Visitors requested in the original as well,
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


This was in the original Miniseries.


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## kemajor (Jan 2, 2003)

Just got around to watching the episode, just can't resist saying...

It seems like these V's have some kind of Vendetta.

- K


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

catcard said:


> I'm not sure why they didn't take a dead V/human imposter. But I would think they did not call in other FBI or cops because they really don't know who is NOT V at this point.


That's silly. Unless you think the entire FBI office is V, there's no reason not to call them in. Once the secret is out, it can't be unlearned unless the Visitors are willing to immediately execute everybody in the office, and their friends and family, to hide it.


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## HTH (Aug 28, 2000)

The original series had the Visitors getting agents in high places on their side as well. Except their method then was...


Spoiler



have Diana convert them through torture, which also changed them into being left-handed. Also, their sensitivity to light would preclude their being undercover as humans unless they all worked nights or had jobs in which they could wear sunglasses all the time.


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

Skittles said:


> I couldn't help but laugh at the irony of the two geeky guys on the newscast, talking about how "it was just like Independence Day", right after the 'earthquake' scene... which was basically ripped straight out of Independence Day.


Best part. A great way for the writers to head off the inevitable "what a ripoff!" posts in this thread.

Wikipedia doesn't tell me what Saint Josephine's miracles are, but it's interesting that she's the patron saint of the Sudan, and what her background is. I wonder if the name of the church is a clue.

Here's my problem so far with the show (and I must note I never saw the first version). The Vs want to persuade us to trust them, they're desperately bent on this, so "should we trust them?" is a central question of the show. Many humans are inclined to say yes and they have _very good reasons_ to do so -- healing centers are just the tip of the iceberg. The real reason to accord provisional trust is that anyone technologically ahead of us enough to come hang mile-wide ships over our cities, which disable all our technology without even trying, can probably just take anything they like if that's what they're after. So what reason can they have for a complicated elaborate ruse of deception?

Now, I'm not saying there can't be an answer. Far from it. Plenty of stories have built themselves around that question and its mystery. (The X-Files, for instance.) But the show has to choose one of two options. 1: Make the question part of the show, by having the characters ask it, and then letting the discovery of the answer be part of the story. Or, 2: Let it be a McGuffin and move past it as fast as possible to get to the story you want to tell. Either one works fine.

So far, it seems like V wants to _assume_ that there's an answer without giving any hint that its characters are aware that the question deserves asking, as in option 2, and yet it's building a lot of story on the "should we trust them?" question, as in option 1. It's dwelling on an issue without letting its characters face down the most key point in that issue. And it makes everyone who does trust the aliens look ridiculous for no good reason. Extraordinary claims ("aliens who could crush us like bugs are still going to play complex games to suborn us and steal our trust") require extraordinary proof (or in this case extraordinary explanations).

It's still very early and maybe the writers _will_ allow one of the characters to ask the key question "why would they do this?" at some point and they just don't want to do that too early (though it's hard to justify hearing people discuss "should we trust them?" without it coming up). Maybe I'm just still feeling once-bitten-twice-shy from Flashforward. Maybe everyone who knows the original V knows I have nothing to worry about. But so far, the hole feels too big to ignore for too long to me.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Hunter Green said:


> So what reason can they have for a complicated elaborate ruse of deception?
> 
> Now, I'm not saying there can't be an answer. Far from it. Plenty of stories have built themselves around that question and its mystery. (The X-Files, for instance.) But the show has to choose one of two options. 1: Make the question part of the show, by having the characters ask it, and then letting the discovery of the answer be part of the story. Or, 2: Let it be a McGuffin and move past it as fast as possible to get to the story you want to tell. Either one works fine.


Without spoiling the original show, that one dealt with it by using option #1 above. I am thinking that this is the way they will go with this one too, I would be surprised if they didn't.

But it's a good question.


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