# New TiVo Logo is Really Depressingly Cheerless



## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

It looks like the little guy is pissed off and turning its back on us. Its dispiriting and looks like the Anti-TiVo from hell. I know that this is a time of Logo transition, but what's wrong with a smile, c'mon~ 

Turn around little guy, don't be mad.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

It's the era of flat. TiVo is just following the trend.


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## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

It looks like the little guy got run over in the road by the Wily Coyote in an ACME road roller.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

He did. That's why my avatar exists. He's dead!


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Wildly.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

hefe said:


> Wildly.


Come on, yeah you know him from the old cartoons and all the battles he had with the Road Rumbler!


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## caughey (May 26, 2007)

It's supposed to be, as Ira Baher said:


> ...a more modern, masculine, and streamlined look. The new ID is what we call Blankman and its what we want TiVo to look like going forward.


I think it's dull, lifeless, and impotent.


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## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

I've grown up so has TiVo.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

"Blankman"?










To me, it's like when Apple took the rainbow out of its logo.


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## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

if you said this kind of anti-company thought on the Apple-site forum, your post would probably be deleted. yeah TiVo lol


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

ufo4sale said:


> I've grown up so has TiVo.


Oh, so growing up means you have to be plain, colorless, lifeless and boring?


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

wmcbrine said:


> "Blankman"?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Then shouldn't they have made him airbrushed chrome?

At least on the back so he could say "Bite my shiny metal..."


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

FWIW he's not new either, he came onboard with the Roamios


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

caughey said:


> .... I think it's dull, lifeless, and impotent.





HarperVision said:


> Oh, so growing up means you have to be plain, colorless, lifeless and boring?


Hey, I accomplished this before growing up!

This thread reminds me of how after Job's death people wanted to modify the Apple logo to resemble a profile of his face.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I'm a fan of the flat look myself. I get a ton of flack over making VideoReDo v5 flat, so I feel some solidarity with TiVo on this. Like it or not flat is in, skumorphisim is out. Embrace the future.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> I'm a fan of the flat look myself. I get a ton of flack over making VideoReDo v5 flat, so I feel some solidarity with TiVo on this. Like it or not flat is in, skumorphisim is out. Embrace the future.


No wonder the 3D craze never took off. I'm glad I'm old and won't see much more of the future, sounds like it's gonna be flat, boring and suck!


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Well, I wouldn't call the one with a face skeuomorphic. In fact, it was quite flat, no faux realism, it just had a whimsical facial detail. Flat does not require colorless.

















I like him with the face. He's friendly and happy. Now it looks like he's standing in the corner of a dark room.

I don't dislike flat. I prefer the flat Chrome logo to the skeuomorphic one...


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

hefe said:


> Well, I wouldn't call the one with a face skeuomorphic. In fact, it was quite flat, no faux realism, it just had a whimsical facial detail. Flat does not require colorless. I like him with the face. He's friendly and happy. Now it looks like he's standing in the corner of a dark room. I don't dislike flat. I prefer the flat Chrome logo to the skeuomorphic one...


That's just TiVo guy turning his back on us, like they did with lifetime service and some other features they took away.


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## opus472 (Jul 4, 2007)

(Ira Baher)---...a more modern, masculine and streamlined look.

So apparently Tivo has no interest in selling its products to women?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I think the biggest issue with the TiVo logo is that he was designed at a time when a 4:3 TV with rabbit ears on top was a recognizable symbol. These days most young people have never even seen a 4:3 TV let alone one with rabbit ears. I'm sure TiVo has struggled with this internally. IIRC there was a even a design that popped up at one point where they tried to make him like a wide screen TV, but it just made him look weird.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> I think the biggest issue with the TiVo logo is that he was designed at a time when a 4:3 TV with rabbit ears on top was a recognizable symbol. These days most young people have never even seen a 4:3 TV let alone one with rabbit ears. I'm sure TiVo has struggled with this internally. IIRC there was a even a design that popped up at one point where they tried to make him like a wide screen TV, but it just made him look weird.


Yep, this:


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Of course, I always thought it would be fun for him to have family, like his Italian cousin, ViTo:


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

HarperVision said:


> Yep, this:


"I've got yer big fat wide Tivo HD right here"


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

hefe said:


> Well, I wouldn't call the one with a face skeuomorphic. In fact, it was quite flat, no faux realism, it just had a whimsical facial detail. Flat does not require colorless.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


On the new one you are seeing from behind while hes taking a piss on what they call the "loyalists".


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

foghorn2 said:


> On the new one you are seeing from behind while hes taking a piss on what they call the "loyalists".


.......as he farts in your general di-rection!


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

HarperVision said:


> .......as he farts in your general di-rection!


"One Pass"


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

opus472 said:


> (Ira Baher)---...a more modern, masculine and streamlined look.
> 
> So apparently Tivo has no interest in selling its products to women?


You are not the only person who had that reaction.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

hefe said:


> Well, I wouldn't call the one with a face skeuomorphic. In fact, it was quite flat, no faux realism, it just had a whimsical facial detail. Flat does not require colorless.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 When I look at Chrome logo in general, I keep thinking someone should have taken away the Simon game a long time ago from the logo creators.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

dlfl said:


> This thread reminds me of how after Job's death people wanted to modify the Apple logo to resemble a profile of his face.


What?  Someone made this image:










but I'm sure no one ever seriously said "This should be the new official logo."


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## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

Whats wrong with a friendly smile these days?


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

Yeah, I don't think a smile would've hurt the logo any - and make it much friendlier.


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## austinpike (Oct 25, 2008)

Dan203 said:


> Like it or not flat is in, skumorphisim is out...


So this is getting off topic, but what happens if you take anti-skeuomorphism to its logical conclusion? The whole concept of an icon interface is based on representing physical objects. Just looking at my phone now, the "call" icon is an obsolete handset, Gmail is based on a snail-mail letter, etc. Of course some of the Apple stuff was over the top, but ultimately all these things are just chips and bits now, so how does one represent _anything_ without some degree of skeuomorphism?

"Flat" design is sort of a different issue - in logo/branding it is fine/whatever, but in terms of an interface, it seems to just make things more obtuse. No we don't need candy gloss chrome, but some indication that items are clickable is not a sin.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

There are about 3 icons that actually mean something. One of them is the envelope icon for mail which probably only old folks like me find meaningful . All other icons are eye candy gibberish that provide no help or meaning for anyone till they have memorized the interface of the app that uses them. Combine that with app designers leaping on fads and changing everything in every release, and you have basically rendered all icons absolutely useless.


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## Chuck_IV (Jan 1, 2002)

hefe said:


> Well, I wouldn't call the one with a face skeuomorphic. In fact, it was quite flat, no faux realism, it just had a whimsical facial detail. Flat does not require colorless.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I prefer the top Google logo by a MILE over the other. I really dislike the flat look most designers are taking these days. Flat is dull. I blame it on everyone wanting to follow Google and their IMO ridiculous "material" design look(I hate that floating button that gets in the way of things).

So yes, I really dislike the current logo as well.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Chuck_IV said:


> Flat is dull. I blame it on everyone wanting to follow Google and their IMO ridiculous "material" design look(I hate that floating button that gets in the way of things).
> 
> So yes, I really dislike the current logo as well.


This changed well before Material Design, and Google was not the first to start going "flat."

Also, Material Design has nothing at all to do with the "flatness" of icons, but the way interface elements layer and move. In fact, built into Material Design are automatic settings for developers to establish the height of one element over another and automatically create an impression of depth, complete with a shadowed appearance to mimic height over the other object. Totally not flat.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Flat was originally used because the limited hardware capabilities of mobile devices made it difficult to do some of the fancier UI tricks that had become common on desktop OSes. It then evolved in to what we're seeing now where flat is actually a style choice.


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## caughey (May 26, 2007)

I notice the TiVo investor page still has the good logo.
http://investor.tivo.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=106292&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=2113325


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Chuck_IV said:


> I prefer the top Google logo by a MILE over the other. I really dislike the flat look most designers are taking these days. Flat is dull. I blame it on everyone wanting to follow Google and their IMO ridiculous "material" design look(I hate that floating button that gets in the way of things). So yes, I really dislike the current logo as well.





hefe said:


> This changed well before Material Design, and Google was not the first to start going "flat." Also, Material Design has nothing at all to do with the "flatness" of icons, but the way interface elements layer and move. In fact, built into Material Design are automatic settings for developers to establish the height of one element over another and automatically create an impression of depth, complete with a shadowed appearance to mimic height over the other object. Totally not flat.





Dan203 said:


> Flat was originally used because the limited hardware capabilities of mobile devices made it difficult to do some of the fancier UI tricks that had become common on desktop OSes. It then evolved in to what we're seeing now where flat is actually a style choice.


Flat just makes me think of old and underpowered like the old Atari and Nintendo games that could only use 8-Bit graphics and stuff. Why the hell do we use it now when processors are more than capable of rendering much nicer graphics that look like something real instead of a hand drawn cartoon from the '30s or '40s?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

HarperVision said:


> Flat just makes me think of old and underpowered like the old Atari and Nintendo games that could only use 8-Bit graphics and stuff. Why the hell do we use it now when processors are more than capable of rendering much nicer graphics that look like something real instead of a hand drawn cartoon from the '30s or '40s?


It's a design choice. Why do fat ties or scarves go in and out of fashion? Like any design, some people will like it, some won't. In terms of certain graphics, like icons, I like simpler rather than something overly realistic with shine and texture and shadows, etc. But then again, every once in a while I rearrange furniture in a room just to make a change. I'll probably change my taste again at some point...


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

HarperVision said:


> Why the hell do we use it now when processors are more than capable of rendering much nicer graphics that look like something real instead of a hand drawn cartoon from the '30s or '40s?


Another major reason flat works better then 3D skumorphic type buttons, in a UI, is that they are more easily scaled. With screens with high PPI values becoming the norm, more and more people are having to scale their UIs so that they can actually see/read the buttons. Scaling a fancy graphic can produce less then optimal results, causing the UI elements to look blurry or jagged. Flat UIs can be drawn using the OSes built in drawing APIs, rather then prerendered graphics, so they are essentially infinitely scaleable. Drawing UIs on the fly also makes them easier to skin, making them more customizable.

In VideoReDo v4 we used graphics for the buttons. If we wanted to do anything, even just make a button a little bigger/smaller, I had to create 4 new graphics. (normal, hover, depressed, disabled) That was a PITA and caused us to avoid making changes to the UI even when they were needed, like when we discovered that some of the buttons were too small to hold the text for non-english translations. With the flat UI in v5 we can just change the size of a button in the resource and it's done. We could even change their size on the fly if we wanted. We can also completely change the color scheme of the UI without having to create any new graphics.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> It's the era of flat. TiVo is just following the trend.


I would choose Mimi Rodgers over Nicole Kidman any day!!

<c e n s o r e d > vs <censored>


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

hefe said:


> I like him with the face. He's friendly and happy. *Now it looks like he's standing in the corner of a dark room.*


Funny! (and a little dark) I'd say it put a smile on my face, but apparently that's frowned-upon in TiVoland, now.


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## Chuck_IV (Jan 1, 2002)

hefe said:


> This changed well before Material Design, and Google was not the first to start going "flat."
> 
> Also, Material Design has nothing at all to do with the "flatness" of icons, but the way interface elements layer and move. In fact, built into Material Design are automatic settings for developers to establish the height of one element over another and automatically create an impression of depth, complete with a shadowed appearance to mimic height over the other object. Totally not flat.


Of course Google wasn't the first to do it because flat was around when that's all computer could handle. Google tho went the flat route as part of their material design and many developers began following that style.

Yes, IMO it was Google that started the masses back on the flat look and feel.

It's the same with some of these new helmets in college fooball. They look like they just used flat black primer and slapped a logo sticker on the helmet, like it was make in someone's garage, in 5 minutes.

Bleh.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

But sometimes, you can get lost by following the crowd. The one thing Tivo Inc is losing and had going for it is the idea that the TiVo logo does a double role as Mascot, a symbolic figure, weird, but think of the role of a Mascot in a large stadium. No one cheers for a flat, boring, and depersonalized logo that becomes invisible to all but the stuff shirts you may find in law firm.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

Joe3 said:


> But sometimes, you can get lost by following the crowd. The one thing Tivo Inc is losing and had going for it is the idea that the TiVo logo does a double role as Mascot, a symbolic figure, weird, but think of the role of a Mascot in a large stadium. No one cheers for a flat, boring, and depersonalized logo that becomes invisible to all but the stuff shirts you may find in law firm.


But apparently they are embarrassed by having a mascot - just look at the way they keep disabling the startup animation.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

hefe said:


> I don't dislike flat. I prefer the flat Chrome logo to the skeuomorphic one...


IMHO, that's not even flat. _This_ is flat:


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

True, that's flatter, I didn't have time to find that exact precise one at the time.

However, in regards to what Google is using right now, here is a screenshot of a bunch of Google apps icons from my phone right now. It's not even the 100% flat versions...


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

With the exception of the one with the stars and the chrome G those are all "flat". The minor amount of shading they use to show a little depth doesn't really count. Even Windows 8/10 uses a tiny bit of shading on it's buttons.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Dan203 said:


> With the exception of the one with the stars and the chrome G those are all "flat". The minor amount of shading they use to show a little depth doesn't really count. Even Windows 8/10 uses a tiny bit of shading on it's buttons.


Now now...it was wmcbrine that said that's not flat. 

I agree that they are, certainly relative to the kind of stuff from before, just not to the extent of the other example.


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## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

tomhorsley said:


> But apparently they are embarrassed by having a mascot - just look at the way they keep disabling the startup animation.


If you ever experience a Tivo reboot youd know disabling the startup animation probably has more to do with the safety of the mascot... 

However, placing the little guy as part of a robust UI would make it family friendly, fun, and way ahead of anything out there. The big thing is voice renegotiation. Have the family talk to the little guy and have him/her answer. All possible.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

On the Bolt they have completely replaced the smiling TiVo guy with the new logo, even on the early boot up screens, so they obviously have no plans to go back. I think someone posted a video once showing a new startup animation which was basically just the new logo fading in to a short piece of music, similar to the THX sequence on the original S3, and said that was their plan for a new startup animation. Although the Bolt doesn't have that. It has nothing just like the other units running the newest software.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Joe3 said:


> Have the family talk to the little guy and have him/her answer. All possible.


Ugh, having flashbacks to the Microsoft paper clip.


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## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

krkaufman said:


> Ugh, having flashbacks to the Microsoft paper clip.


Thinking more like the nowadays' Apple Siri, Microsoft Cortana, the Echo.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

krkaufman said:


> Ugh, having flashbacks to the Microsoft paper clip.


"You seem to be trying to change channels. Would you like help with that?"


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

unitron said:


> "You seem to be trying to change channels. Would you like help with that?"


Aaaaghh!!!

And it wasn't a big deal up until now, since TiVo included a configuration option to disable him; but they removed the configuration toggle in the BOLT!


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## interweb (Jul 24, 2015)

I think its boring and for new customers with no history with it, it really needs the name on it.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

Or at least the smile. You can put the smile on and still not affect the "flatness" of the logo at all. Just copy the smile from the old logo and put it on the new one. Give the logo personality and flair.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

Worf said:


> Or at least the smile. You can put the smile on and still not affect the "flatness" of the logo at all. Just copy the smile from the old logo and put it on the new one. Give the logo personality and flair.


Chesire TiVo Guy...


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## opus472 (Jul 4, 2007)

https://www.nngroup.com/articles/young-adults-flat-design


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

I must be young. What is shown as flat here is what I call clean. I prefer clean to jazzy. I don't need bevels and textures and gloss.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

As an older person I already lived through flat. We had flatness because we were limited in what we could do with computer graphics - you were lucky when you had 256 colors. Usually you got by with 16, and things were flat because you had really 2 shades of 8 colors (black, white, and red, green, blue, cyan, magenta, yellow, in bright and dark).

So yes, I prefer my textures, shading and colors, and 3d-ification. I don't particularly want everything looking like early 90s computer graphics. We grew out of Windows 3.1 or System 6. Heck, I still have an older program with an option marked "Waste CPU cycles drawing trendy 3D junk" (this was mid-90s).


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

But it doesn't. The newer graphics are sharper and clearer. Don't confuse flat or clean with dumb.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

Worf said:


> ...
> Heck, I still have an older program with an option marked "Waste CPU cycles drawing trendy 3D junk" (this was mid-90s).


Eudora?


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## paulmlemay (Sep 29, 2014)

wmcbrine said:


> "Blankman"?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe Apple got tired of buying expensive HP ink refills?


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## HTH (Aug 28, 2000)

It seems... off. An off television.


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