# Mini Deals ?



## krkaufman

Daily Woot (one-day-only, Nov 13)

*TiVo TCDA92000 TiVo Mini (v1)*
Factory reconditioned
*$69.99* *SOLD OUT*

-----
p.s. More info on Mini v1 vs Mini v2, here


krkaufman said:


> A few links for quick price-checking at Amazon and Best Buy* for either version...
> Amazon: v1, v2
> BestBuy: v1, v2
> 
> * Remember to use the Best Buy Price-match Policy to get Amazon pricing.​


p.p.s. CamelCamelCamel price tracking on Mini v2 (Current Version), here.


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## pcbrew

krkaufman said:


> Daily Woot (one-day-only, Nov 13)
> 
> *TiVo TCDA92000 TiVo Mini (v1)*
> Factory reconditioned
> *$69.99*


Cool, just grabbed one. I had been thinking of getting another but was turned off as the best price I could find earlier this week on the old model was $120.


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## Zaphod

I bought 2 yesterday. I had just gotten a new Roamio Plus in July and in some searching noticed that Wood had had the Mini refurbs at that same price back in February. So I had been hoping that offer would come back. They are the original model with the IR only remote, but I can get 2 of those refurbs for the price of a single of the new model.


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## JayMan747

krkaufman said:


> Daily Woot (one-day-only, Nov 13)
> 
> *TiVo TCDA92000 TiVo Mini (v1)*
> Factory reconditioned
> *$69.99*
> 
> -----
> p.s. More info on Mini v1 vs Mini v2, here


Thanks!

Bought 1 Friday.
Now I just need 1 more with the RF/remote.


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## krkaufman

fyi...



Tico said:


> *Amazon Minis $119.95. (Current Version)*
> ------
> Good Deal.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TIBFEIA?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00
> 
> Ships and Sold by Amazon so Best Buy will (price match).


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## dcdeadbeat

I ordered mine on the day the deal went live. I didn't get any shipping notification until today. My refurb Roamio came in like 2 days. Is it normal for Woot to take 6 days to even ship it? USPS is saying another 3-5 days for delivery.

Just curious if anyone already got their Mini?


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## JayMan747

dcdeadbeat said:


> I ordered mine on the day the deal went live. I didn't get any shipping notification until today. My refurb Roamio came in like 2 days. Is it normal for Woot to take 6 days to even ship it? USPS is saying another 3-5 days for delivery.
> 
> Just curious if anyone already got their Mini?


I also ordered the same day, went through Amazon, is supposed to be delivered today, but maybe not until Friday.

For some reason, UPS gave it to local PS and there have been no updates since.

Ironic that the mini (with RF) I ordered through Best Buy yesterday (Amazon price match) was supposed to be delivered Friday has already been delivered.


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## jge968

I will return the Mini I bought from Best Buy. Bought one from Amazon yesterday. It arrived today.


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## nickels

dcdeadbeat said:


> I ordered mine on the day the deal went live. I didn't get any shipping notification until today. My refurb Roamio came in like 2 days. Is it normal for Woot to take 6 days to even ship it? USPS is saying another 3-5 days for delivery.
> 
> Just curious if anyone already got their Mini?


I got my Woot Mini a few days ago. It took like 5-6 days from the order till it arrived.


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## dcdeadbeat

Mine was just delivered. So it took 7 days which seems like an eternity for a D.C. person. I am used to same day delivery from Amazon. 



nickels said:


> I got my Woot Mini a few days ago. It took like 5-6 days from the order till it arrived.


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## ClearToLand

For thread subscribers, *IT'S BACK!!!*


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## krkaufman

ClearToLand said:


> For thread subscribers, *IT'S BACK!!!*


To be clear, "it" is the *"Factory Reconditioned" Mini v1 on Woot, for $70.*

*TiVo TCDA92000 TiVo Mini (v1)* *SOLD OUT*
$69.99
Condition: Factory Reconditioned
Quantity: Limit 3 per customer​
See the OP, here, for info of diffs b/w Mini v1 & v2.


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## krkaufman

SOLD OUT. (That didn't last long.)



krkaufman said:


> To be clear, "it" is the *"Factory Reconditioned" Mini v1 on Woot, for $70.*
> 
> *TiVo TCDA92000 TiVo Mini (v1)*
> $69.99
> Condition: Factory Reconditioned
> Quantity: Limit 3 per customer​
> See the OP, here, for info of diffs b/w Mini v1 & v2.


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## lessd

FYI

The Mini on Amazon is now still $118.49 but for some reason no tax at this time.


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## Chuck_IV

Depends on who is selling it. If it's a company not in your state, then no tax. These days Amazon has been forced to charge tax in many states, regardless of their presence.

As an FYI, B&H has had it for that price for a little while now. That seems to be the ongoing holiday price.


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## Lord_Vader

I bought one on Amazon for ~$118. I'm glad they include the service now. It should have been that way since the beginning. I paid the ~$300 in service fees for the first two minis that I bought.


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## TivoJD

Amazon Mini v2 $100

http://www.amazon.com/TiVo-Mini-Remote-Current-Version/dp/B00TIBFEIA/ref=sr_1_1?s=tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1449844426&sr=1-1&refinements=p_89%3ATiVo


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## dlfl

TivoJD said:


> Amazon Mini v2 $100
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/TiVo-Mini-Remote-Current-Version/dp/B00TIBFEIA/ref=sr_1_1?s=tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1449844426&sr=1-1&refinements=p_89%3ATiVo


It's $118.45 now.


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## krkaufman

TivoJD said:


> Amazon Mini v2 $100
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/TiVo-Mini-Remote-Current-Version/dp/B00TIBFEIA/ref=sr_1_1?s=tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1449844426&sr=1-1&refinements=p_89%3ATiVo


It seems to have been too brief a blip for Camelx3 tracking to pick it up.


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## TivoJD

Glad I grabbed it when I saw it.


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## krkaufman

TivoJD said:


> Glad I grabbed it when I saw it.


Thanks for posting that deal, here. Maybe next time, for me.


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## ClearToLand

krkaufman said:


> It seems to have been *too brief a blip* for Camelx3 tracking to pick it up.


Looks like once every 5 hours is the best they can achieve (at least back in Dec 2011). So a price could drop for 04:59 and return and not even be noticed. 249,380 different price checks take time.

*How Our Price Checking System Works* - CamelCamelCamel Blog

I used FrozenWarrior (once per day) before CamelCamelCamel so I'm glad that I found it. The history is much better (longer and detailed).


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## cwbuckley

Gee, I thought that I got a good deal on my Tivo Mini at $118.45 at Amazon. But that doesn't compare to the prices that some of you guys got. Although I think that you all got the first edition while my mini is the 2nd edition. Still it was a good buy.

Chuck


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## tvmaster2

TivoJD said:


> Glad I grabbed it when I saw it.


Hi. Is there a model number to reference to make sure the Amazon Mini includes lifetime service?


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## waynomo

tvmaster2 said:


> Hi. Is there a model number to reference to make sure the Amazon Mini includes lifetime service?


*All* Minis include lifetime service now.


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## krkaufman

tvmaster2 said:


> Hi. Is there a model number to reference to make sure the Amazon Mini includes lifetime service?


No, they're all Lifetime, now, if I understand correctly. (believe I do) But I expect you'd want to get the Mini v2 (TCDA93000) if you're looking to pair it with a new Roamio. (see here)

But you'll be totally covered if you buy "New," and "ships from and sold by Amazon.com." (link) Or use this Amazon price to price-match at your local Best Buy, providing they have inventory of the Mini v2.


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## tvmaster2

krkaufman said:


> No, they're all Lifetime, now, if I understand correctly. (believe I do) But I expect you'd want to get the Mini v2 (TCDA93000) if you're looking to pair it with a new Roamio. (see here)
> 
> But you'll be totally covered if you buy "New," and "ships from and sold by Amazon.com." (link) Or use this Amazon price to price-match at your local Best Buy, providing they have inventory of the Mini v2.


ok, good tip. I'll see if Best Buy has any locally, but I hate buying from Best Buy (long story). thanks


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## Robbo1

$111 on Amazon today.


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## waynomo

tvmaster2 said:


> ... but I hate buying from Best Buy (long story)....


I think many of us have a Best Buy long story also.


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## cmaquilino16

Well I got a new one on eBay for that price with my $50 dollar eBay coupon for selling something.


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## skypros

The current mini (TCDA9300) is now $107.65 on amazon......


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## tvmaster2

skypros said:


> The current mini (TCDA9300) is now $107.65 on amazon......


and now it's back to $117 - must have been a 12 hour special


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## krkaufman

Again down to $111 on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TIBFEIA


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## HarperVision

Refurb Mini V1's on Woot again for $70:

https://electronics.woot.com/offers/tivo-mini-11?ref=w_cnt_bs_17


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## waynomo

Ordered 2.


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## HarperVision

HarperVision said:


> Refurb Mini V1's on Woot again for $70: https://electronics.woot.com/offers/tivo-mini-11?ref=w_cnt_bs_17


Sold out.


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## tvmaster2

Amazon still selling these for $110 I think. Is that a bad sign? They've been on sale for a while now


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## moondoggie

tvmaster2 said:


> Amazon still selling these for $110 I think. Is that a bad sign? They've been on sale for a while now


I bought 3 from Amazon a few weeks ago. Take it while you can.


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## HarperVision

TiVo mini V1 refurb back on Woot for $70. Get 'em while you can!

http://www.woot.com/offers/tivo-min...il&utm_term=0_c5ca76da11-f28f4c9a5c-303976033


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## MikeekiM

HarperVision said:


> TiVo mini V1 refurb back on Woot for $70. Get 'em while you can!
> 
> http://www.woot.com/offers/tivo-min...il&utm_term=0_c5ca76da11-f28f4c9a5c-303976033


Wow...that's amazing...

I don't need one...but I want one at this price!!! Any creative reasons I might want an extra? Clearly I can't lug one to a hotel on a business trip and extend my TiVo experience... But anything "out of the box" like that?

$70 is cheap, cheap, cheap! Nice!

Oh well... Not buying one saves me $70 I suppose...


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## travisc77

Just got one, finally replacing my S3 which is in the Theater and is rarely used for TV (mostly streaming & games). Basically, I can sell the S3 on ebay for ~$150, net $75 on my pocket and get $2/month savings for giving back the cable card. 

That puts 2 minis on my basic Roamio, but they are in rooms that won't interfere very often with the tuners (Theater & Guest). Nice.


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## dlfl

HarperVision said:


> TiVo mini V1 refurb back on Woot for $70. Get 'em while you can!
> 
> http://www.woot.com/offers/tivo-min...il&utm_term=0_c5ca76da11-f28f4c9a5c-303976033


+1

I wonder if that Square Trade warranty is worth it. Actually I wonder how it would work. Within a year will there be anywhere you can buy a new or reconditioned replacement mini? (And you certainly aren't going to get one actually repaired.). What do they do then? Give you the purchase price?

Do you have to get TiVo support to agree your mini has failed, or will Square Trade take your word for it?


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## HarperVision

MikeekiM said:


> Wow...that's amazing... I don't need one...but I want one at this price!!! Any creative reasons I might want an extra? Clearly I can't lug one to a hotel on a business trip and extend my TiVo experience... But anything "out of the box" like that? $70 is cheap, cheap, cheap! Nice! Oh well... Not buying one saves me $70 I suppose...


You could use it dedicated for a slingbox.


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## Robbo1

Damn-- just got my third (and final) mini last week from Amazon and set it up over the weekend. Not worth going through the hassle of returning/re-setting up.


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## MikeekiM

HarperVision said:


> You could use it dedicated for a slingbox.


Great idea... Unfortunately, I have two broken Slingboxes... But this is a great idea... Hmmm...should I go out and get a new Slingbox for this???


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## HarperVision

The SB 350 works very well and is only like $70-80 now.


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## Robbo1

Every Sling device I have owned has failed immediately after the warranty expired. Sling tech support makes Tivo's look superb.

As a new Bolt owner (waiting for OTH streaming to be enabled), how does Roamio (or TiVo Stream) OTH compare to a Sling connected mini?


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## HarperVision

Robbo1 said:


> Every Sling device I have owned has failed immediately after the warranty expired. Sling tech support makes Tivo's look superb.
> 
> As a new Bolt owner (waiting for OTH streaming to be enabled), how does Roamio (or TiVo Stream) OTH compare to a Sling connected mini?


It doesn't compare. TiVo Stream is a joke compared to the quality of a Slingbox stream on a decent connection. A few years ago I was able to use a Slingbox Pro-HD from my home in PA over to a wooden b-hut in Afghanistan over a 64 Kbps download speed and get a watchable picture. It eventually "upgraded" to 128 Kbps....WoooHoooo!

Funny, I've never had a Slingbox break on me yet, and I have had MANY from the very first one up to my newest one, an M1.


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## indyrobb

I just bought one for my guest bedroom. I've had one of Comcast's DTA's in there for the occasional guest, but this is going to be SOOO much better! Get rid of the 4 dollar a month fee for something that is hardly used, and that we just got a guide on last month. And I love my mini in my bedroom. Now I hope I can get it to work with my Ethernet over power line adaptors that I bought forever ago in anticipation of getting a mini for that room!


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## MikeekiM

HarperVision said:


> The SB 350 works very well and is only like $70-80 now.


Amazon has refurbs for $57.99...

Hmmm... $57.99 + $69.99 = $127.98...

I may need to pull the trigger on this one...


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## MikeekiM

MikeekiM said:


> Amazon has refurbs for $57.99...
> 
> Hmmm... $57.99 + $69.99 = $127.98...
> 
> I may need to pull the trigger on this one...


Triggers pulled... 

I hate that I am purchasing my 3rd Slingbox...but at $57.99, I am not that upset... Still...I have never had as much bad luck on a consumer electronics device than with my Slingboxes...generally speaking, I am ready to get rid of technology before technology gets rid of me...


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## Chuck_IV

Just a note on the failed Slingboxes. Their power supplies are what tend to fail first. I had a 500 fail and ended up replacing the power supply and was back up and running. Been running well for over a year now.


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## Robbo1

I guess you need to use a breakout cable ( https://www.tivo.com/shop/detail/av-cable ) if you are trying to connect teh Mini to a Sling Box that doesn't have HDMI.

Question: are both outputs on the Mini (HDMI + component/audio) active at the same time? Can I have the Mini hooked up to both a TV via HDMI and a Sling via component?


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## HarperVision

Robbo1 said:


> I guess you need to use a breakout cable ( https://www.tivo.com/shop/detail/av-cable ) if you are trying to connect teh Mini to a Sling Box that doesn't have HDMI.
> 
> Question: are both outputs on the Mini (HDMI + component/audio) active at the same time? Can I have the Mini hooked up to both a TV via HDMI and a Sling via component?


Yes, that's how my mini with SB350 is hooked up in my Master Bedroom.


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## mbkintner

Does dynamic tuner allocation work when a mini is connected to a slingbox?


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## HarperVision

mbkintner said:


> Does dynamic tuner allocation work when a mini is connected to a slingbox?


Yes, the mini has no idea what "display" it's hooked up to, in this case a Slingbox (and maybe an HDTV too, via HDMI). The dynamic tuner functionality is between the mini and its TiVo host (Premiere4, Roamio, Bolt) only.


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## MikeekiM

Robbo1 said:


> I guess you need to use a breakout cable ( https://www.tivo.com/shop/detail/av-cable ) if you are trying to connect teh Mini to a Sling Box that doesn't have HDMI.
> 
> Question: are both outputs on the Mini (HDMI + component/audio) active at the same time? Can I have the Mini hooked up to both a TV via HDMI and a Sling via component?





HarperVision said:


> Yes, that's how my mini with SB350 is hooked up in my Master Bedroom.


<sigh>... I hate the hidden costs...not to say that this was intentionally hidden from me, but this adds another $26.00 to my "cheap" solution ($14.99 + shipping and sales tax)...

Oh well... Order placed... Still jazzed about getting this setup! 

I'll have to double check my two existing slingboxes to see if it was the power supply... I am usually pretty good about isolating issues like that, so I'd be surprised if the fix was simply replacing the power supply...but stranger things have happened (and I have neglected my share of obvious things in the past)...


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## mdavej

Can you not get a knock off from eBay for a couple of bucks?


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## MikeekiM

mdavej said:


> Can you not get a knock off from eBay for a couple of bucks?


Yup... Found it here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-3ft-3...043230?hash=item41826ccf1e:g:8QcAAOSw7PBTm2xV

I am going to try and cancel my order now... Crossing my fingers...


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## MikeekiM

Just received my TiVo Mini v1 from Woot!

As suggested, this is not powering an extra TV...I am just going to put it next to my Roamio Pro and have it feed an exclusive connection to a SlingBox...

That said...which is the better connection, ethernet or MoCA? I have both conveniently available...

My guess is ethernet...since introducing a splitter into my coax network may cause signal degradation...


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## TonyD79

I am assuming a roamio is the same as a bolt and you can just run an Ethernet cable between the roamio and the mini. It worked for my bolt as both my mini and bolt are in the same cabinet. If yours are, you should be able to do the same. 

I use mine for PIP.


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## MikeekiM

TonyD79 said:


> I am assuming a roamio is the same as a bolt and you can just run an Ethernet cable between the roamio and the mini. It worked for my bolt as both my mini and bolt are in the same cabinet. If yours are, you should be able to do the same.
> 
> I use mine for PIP.


My Roamio Pro is already connected via ethernet...but I should be able to just connect another ethernet cable from the same LAN... I have a switch in my living room that should do the trick...


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## TonyD79

MikeekiM said:


> My Roamio Pro is already connected via ethernet...but I should be able to just connect another ethernet cable from the same LAN... I have a switch in my living room that should do the trick...


Sorry. I thought you meant it was already connected via Moca.


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## MikeekiM

TonyD79 said:


> Sorry. I thought you meant it was already connected via Moca.


No worries Tony... I was just trying to figure out if I connect my mini to my network via MoCA or Ethernet... Based on my assumption that either would work just fine, I am thinking that Ethernet would avoid me introducing a coax splitter, which is probably something I should avoid if possible...

Hmmm... PIP, huh? Nice idea... I am hooking mine up to a dedicated Slingbox, but I could probably route the output of the Slingbox to the PIP inputs on my TV if I have that feature... I don't even know if my TV supports PIP! 

I'll have to go and check!


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## TonyD79

PIP is a requirement for me when buying a tv. I watch a lot of sports but a lot of it is watched in PIP or split screen either while watching another game or other tv.


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## MikeekiM

HarperVision said:


> The SB 350 works very well and is only like $70-80 now.





HarperVision said:


> Yes, that's how my mini with SB350 is hooked up in my Master Bedroom.


HarperVision - I just hooked up my SB350... I don't have my TiVo Mini cables yet (they are shipping), so I hooked up to my existing Roamio Pro for now...

I have everything working EXCEPT for the remote control. Did you have to use a custom BIN file to get your remote to work? And I will likely need to have a different BIN file for my TiVo Mini if I end up switching the remote code...

Any help here would be MUCH appreciated!!!


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## ShanJack

Woot Electronics has Tivo Mini 2 for $89.99.


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## dlfl

ShanJack said:


> Woot Electronics has Tivo Mini 2 for $89.99.


Here's a link:
http://electronics.woot.com/plus/tivo-roamio-ota-tivo-mini-2
Also the OTA for $29.99.
The mini has lifetime but the OTA doesn't. Both are reconditioned (of course).


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## Old Hickory

ShanJack said:


> Woot Electronics has Tivo Mini 2 for $89.99.


Is this Tivo Mini 2 the most recent mini?


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## Old Hickory

dlfl said:


> Here's a link:
> http://electronics.woot.com/plus/tivo-roamio-ota-tivo-mini-2
> Also the OTA for $29.99.
> *The mini has lifetime but the OTA doesn't*. Both are reconditioned (of course).


I'm looking for the lifetime statement on Woot! but cannot find it.


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## MikeekiM

Old Hickory said:


> Is this Tivo Mini 2 the most recent mini?


It is not...based on the photo/thumbnail... The new one has the product name in the center. The original mini (v1) has the product name on the left (as pictured in the thumbnail).



Old Hickory said:


> I'm looking for the lifetime statement on Woot! but cannot find it.


For the mini? My understanding is that ALL new activations of minis are now lifetime... You can even take an existing monthly mini, deactivate it, and then activate it again and you'll be on a lifetime automagically... I am sure there are tons of folks on TCF that can confirm this...


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## ClearToLand

MikeekiM said:


> It is not...based on the photo/thumbnail... The new one has the product name in the center. The original mini (v1) has the product name on the left (as pictured in the thumbnail)...


Specs say it is v2:


> TiVo TCDA93000 TiVo Mini
> RF Remote


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## MikeekiM

ClearToLand said:


> Specs say it is v2:


Yeah...I know... The big question is which to believe...the picture or the text... Cuz they can't both be right...


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## tarheelblue32

MikeekiM said:


> Yeah...I know... The big question is which to believe...the picture or the text... Cuz they can't both be right...


The text is what I would believe, because it's what is in writing. The picture is just some stock photo that they slap up there because they don't realize v1 and v2 Minis look any different.


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## MikeekiM

tarheelblue32 said:


> The text is what I would believe, because it's what is in writing. The picture is just some stock photo that they slap up there because they don't realize v1 and v2 Minis look any different.


Yeah...I would likely err on the side of text than the photo too...


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## Old Hickory

I went on the Woot! site and asked the question re: V2 vs V1 and a person called Tivo_Doug answered yes, it's the V2 RFI model that is black matte and not like the photo provided.


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## waynomo

Besides the RF remote, is there any other difference between the V1 and the V2?


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## MikeekiM

waynomo said:


> Besides the RF remote, is there any other difference between the V1 and the V2?


My understanding is that there are only three differences:

1. V2 adds RF
2. V2 has product name centered instead of left justified
3. V2 has same remote configuration as Roamio... V1 has a slightly different remote included with buttons that are slightly different


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## lessd

MikeekiM said:


> My understanding is that there are only three differences:
> 
> 1. V2 adds RF
> 2. V2 has product name centered instead of left justified
> 3. V2 has same remote configuration as Roamio... V1 has a slightly different remote included with buttons that are slightly different


And a little faster


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## SpeedNut

Best Buy is running New In Box Mini v2s for 118.99 and 116.99 at Walmart. Not sure if this resets tonight, but I'm in for 2 at BB with reward credits.


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## phughes200

B&H has a similar deal $117 with free shipping and no tax (except NY). You have to add it to your cart to see this price. A little more than the WOOT deal which charges shipping and tax (102 total for me).


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## HerronScott

ShanJack said:


> Woot Electronics has Tivo Mini 2 for $89.99.


Shoot missed it! Would have been about $21 cheaper than new on Amazon. 

Scott


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## boilerjt

MikeekiM said:


> Yeah...I would likely err on the side of text than the photo too...


The text was correct. I received my V2 from Woot yesterday.


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## MikeekiM

boilerjt said:


> The text was correct. I received my V2 from Woot yesterday.


Nice to know... I would have gone for this deal if I hadn't already pulled the trigger on the $69.99 Woot deal on the v1 mini the week before...


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## essential

Those woot deals are always hard to find on their site, or they just sell out fast and they remove them.


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## mjh

MikeekiM said:


> Nice to know... I would have gone for this deal if I hadn't already pulled the trigger on the $69.99 Woot deal on the v1 mini the week before...


I did go for the deal and they sent me a dud. Details here.


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## tvmaster2

TonyD79 said:


> PIP is a requirement for me when buying a tv. I watch a lot of sports but a lot of it is watched in PIP or split screen either while watching another game or other tv.


PIP sets are hard to find. I got a Samsung with a matte screen no less, about six years ago. Do you know who still makes them?


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## TonyD79

tvmaster2 said:


> PIP sets are hard to find. I got a Samsung with a matte screen no less, about six years ago. Do you know who still makes them?


My tv is two years old. At that time most of the mid to higher level sets had it. The didn't push it as a feature but they had it. Sony and Samsung were mostly what I looked at.

I haven't seen a single 4K set with one. And haven't looked at other sets now because I am not in the market.


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## chiguy50

tvmaster2 said:


> PIP sets are hard to find. I got a Samsung with a matte screen no less, about six years ago. Do you know who still makes them?


You would be hard-pressed to find a dual-tuner PIP set in today's market (such as the old Sony KDL-52XBR5 and family), if that's what you're looking for. I had the dual-tuner KDL-46XBR5 and loved it for the PIP feature, but with the advent of TiVo and OTT sources, I no longer have any use for even my current TV's single internal tuner (XBR-55HX929).

However, AFAIK most manufacturers provide the PIP (or P&P/PAP) feature on many of their sets (see here for just one mid-range example). There are often restrictions on which sources can be combined (e.g., one digital and one analog), but there are workarounds for that such as making redundant digital/analog connections between devices. I am using PIP today but seldom need it anymore.


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## chiguy50

TonyD79 said:


> My tv is two years old. At that time most of the mid to higher level sets had it. The didn't push it as a feature but they had it. Sony and Samsung were mostly what I looked at.
> 
> I haven't seen a single 4K set with one. And haven't looked at other sets now because I am not in the market.


Sony has 4K TV's with PAP.


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## Photo_guy

Refurb Mini's and Roamio OTA's are back at Amazon. 93000 @$90, 92000 @$70, OTA @$30.


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## bud8man

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01ASE4Q7A/ref=nosim/?tag=dealsofamer05-20


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## HerronScott

Photo_guy said:


> Refurb Mini's and Roamio OTA's are back at Amazon. 93000 @$90, 92000 @$70, OTA @$30.


Thanks! Went ahead and picked up a v2 for the game room upstairs (waited to late on the last Woot deal). Interesting this is sold by Woot too but fulfilled by Amazon.

Scott


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## bud8man

My second such deal. I picked up an iCore 3 barebones Win 7 Desktop for $150 and it was pay Amazon, ship by Woot.


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## TonyD79

HerronScott said:


> Thanks! Went ahead and picked up a v2 for the game room upstairs (waited to late on the last Woot deal). Interesting this is sold by Woot too but fulfilled by Amazon. Scott


Woot is owned by Amazon. They bought them in 2010.


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## tvmaster2

chiguy50 said:


> Sony has 4K TV's with PAP.


it's muddy from what I'm reading online how PAP and PIP differ. Thoughts?


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## chiguy50

tvmaster2 said:


> it's muddy from what I'm reading online how PAP and PIP differ. Thoughts?


They are sometimes used interchangeably; but strictly speaking PIP refers to Picture-in-Picture, which means a smaller screen or window is superimposed on a larger screen. On the older Sony models w/PIP, this smaller window could be resized in set increments from approx. 1/16th screen size to roughly 1/4 screen size (IIRC) and could be moved to any corner of the larger screen (and could also be displayed side by side).

On the Sony models of the last few years that offer P&P/PAP (also referred to as Twin Picture or Picture-and-Picture), the second window is displayed side-by-side only, but the resizing option is still there and is now seamlessly variable (see attached photos). You can select among different inputs for each window (with restrictions) and can toggle between the windows for the respective audio output. The availability of P&P and exact features will vary depending on the model year and specific model, and of course other manufacturers will have differing implementations, if at all. In my limited experience, Sony has done PIP better than any other manufacturer for their XBR top-of-the-line models.

Going back to the Sony 32- and 27-inch Trinitron (CRT) dual-tuner PIP models of 20+ years ago, the user had the option to call up as many as 32 PIP windows (!) displaying different channels (assuming you could receive that many channels back then) which would refresh content every few seconds. In this age of the STB/DVR, there's really no meaningful demand for such a feature even assuming the CEM's could design it.


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## tvmaster2

chiguy50 said:


> They are sometimes used interchangeably; but strictly speaking PIP refers to Picture-in-Picture, which means a smaller screen or window is superimposed on a larger screen. On the older Sony models w/PIP, this smaller window could be resized in set increments from approx. 1/16th screen size to roughly 1/4 screen size (IIRC) and could be moved to any corner of the larger screen (and could also be displayed side by side).
> 
> On the Sony models of the last few years that offer P&P/PAP (also referred to as Twin Picture or Picture-and-Picture), the second window is displayed side-by-side only, but the resizing option is still there and is now seamlessly variable (see attached photos). You can select among different inputs for each window (with restrictions) and can toggle between the windows for the respective audio output. The availability of P&P and exact features will vary depending on the model year and specific model, and of course other manufacturers will have differing implementations, if at all. In my limited experience, Sony has done PIP better than any other manufacturer for their XBR top-of-the-line models.
> 
> Going back to the Sony 32- and 27-inch Trinitron (CRT) dual-tuner PIP models of 20+ years ago, the user had the option to call up as many as 32 PIP windows (!) displaying different channels (assuming you could receive that many channels back then) which would refresh content every few seconds. In this age of the STB/DVR, there's really no meaningful demand for such a feature even assuming the CEM's could design it.


great explanation - thanks. My Samsung does a combo of those - as the PIP gets bigger, it turns into PAP


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## TonyD79

My Sony I bought in 2014 has both pap and pip. Pap is sizable, pip is not but can be moved to each quadrant. The odd part is that the remote that came with the tv doesn't have a button but my old Sony remote controls it fine. 

Typically, only one input of the two can be hi def. that's true of mine. I use the composite output of the mini for pip. My fios Dvr has both outputs live as did directv (although they started messing with that).


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## tvmaster2

TonyD79 said:


> My Sony I bought in 2014 has both pap and pip. Pap is sizable, pip is not but can be moved to each quadrant. The odd part is that the remote that came with the tv doesn't have a button but my old Sony remote controls it fine.
> 
> Typically, only one input of the two can be hi def. that's true of mine. I use the composite output of the mini for pip. My fios Dvr has both outputs live as did directv (although they started messing with that).


yup, I've got a switching system set up for the analog side, so I can feed it TiVo, satellite and until Cox killed regular cable from a wall jack, I could use all those channels as well. The Samsung allows either cable (coax connector on set) or antenna as the second input, so I gave converted all the above devices to rf via a radio shack rf switcher. Works great in a pinch when a sporting event is up against a good show.


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## TonyD79

tvmaster2 said:


> yup, I've got a switching system set up for the analog side, so I can feed it TiVo, satellite and until Cox killed regular cable from a wall jack, I could use all those channels as well. The Samsung allows either cable (coax connector on set) or antenna as the second input, so I gave converted all the above devices to rf via a radio shack rf switcher. Works great in a pinch when a sporting event is up against a good show.


Sounds the same. I have a radio shack composite switch with remote for the mini, my fios Dvr and an hdmi split/converted Roku output I can watch btn plus and ESPN 3 in the pap/pip.


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## HerronScott

HerronScott said:


> Thanks! Went ahead and picked up a v2 for the game room upstairs (waited to late on the last Woot deal). Interesting this is sold by Woot too but fulfilled by Amazon.


I was surprised to see that the refurbished Mini v2 came with an HDMI cable and Duracell batteries. 

Scott


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