# Any Series 3 News?



## larrs (May 2, 2005)

Man, I really want a Series 3. I am moving and have the option of going to a new Cable Co, or to D* or E*. If I knew the Series 3 was definitely coming and when, I might opt for cable. Otherwise, I will probably go to satellite.


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## amjustice (Mar 9, 2006)

I am with you man, I am also very anxious to hear any news. My guess is we wont hear anything for awhile and when we do it will just be a nice surprise.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

larrs said:


> Man, I really want a Series 3. I am moving and have the option of going to a new Cable Co, or to D* or E*. If I knew the Series 3 was definitely coming and when, I might opt for cable. Otherwise, I will probably go to satellite.


It is definitely coming. 2nd half of 2006. The box just got CableLabs validation. Now they need FCC certification, a few last hardware tweaks, and they can start cranking those bad boys out. Boo yah!


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## mgar (Feb 14, 2005)

ChuckyBox said:


> It is definitely coming. 2nd half of 2006. The box just got CableLabs validation. Now they need FCC certification, a few last hardware tweaks, and they can start cranking those bad boys out. Boo yah!


Is the FCC certification a public record? Will we know when the certification is granted?


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

mgar said:


> Is the FCC certification a public record? Will we know when the certification is granted?


Yes it is public. We will know about it if we are clever.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

And ChuckyBox is one of the pretty clever ones, so I'm guessing we'll know shortly after FCC approval, if not before.


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## Stanley Rohner (Jan 18, 2004)

Second half of 2006 is July-December.

I'm sure will people will be here July 1st crying -Where's the S3 ?!!


I'm gueesing they'll be out the 2nd half of December.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Stanley Rohner said:


> Second half of 2006 is July-December.
> 
> I'm sure will people will be here July 1st crying -Where's the S3 ?!!
> 
> ...


seems like some are not even waiting until July 1st


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## SMWinnie (Aug 17, 2002)

Stanley Rohner said:


> Second half of 2006 is July-December.
> 
> I'm sure will people will be here July 1st crying -Where's the S3 ?!!
> 
> ...


TiVo is a consumer products company. Second half is August - January...

One would hope that they're on shelves by Black Friday. Shame to lose XMas sales.


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## NYGD1424 (Jul 8, 2005)

Last I heard it will be out in the fall of 06 and the first box cost somewhere around $800. Good luck selling those with that price.


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## mgar (Feb 14, 2005)

NYGD1424 said:


> Last I heard it will be out in the fall of 06 and the first box cost somewhere around $800. Good luck selling those with that price.


This is pure speculation. We will know the price and the date of release when TiVo provides the information.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

NYGD1424 said:


> Last I heard it will be out in the fall of 06 and the first box cost somewhere around $800. Good luck selling those with that price.


I'll bet Tivo will sell more than you think at $799.

But if they debut at $499, no one will be able to keep them in stock ... :up:


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## nhaigh (Jul 16, 2001)

NYGD1424 said:


> Last I heard it will be out in the fall of 06 and the first box cost somewhere around $800. Good luck selling those with that price.


If they came out today at $800 I'd buy two.

The problem I see is that they come out in the fall which is about four month after Comcast reckon they wil have their TiVo available. I suspect half the potential market will be Comcast customers by the time TiVo get the S3 out.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I'm not in Comcast country, so I'll be getting 2 S3 units regardless of cost. Possibly 3 if they're cheap enough.

Dan


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## btl-a4 (Dec 28, 2005)

larrs said:


> Man, I really want a Series 3. I am moving and have the option of going to a new Cable Co, or to D* or E*. If I knew the Series 3 was definitely coming and when, I might opt for cable. Otherwise, I will probably go to satellite.


With most cable co boxes you can return on a whim with no penalties, so you could keep it tille the s3 comes out and ditch the cabelco dvr and put the s3 to use. I think most sat co's make you pay for the dvr, could be wrong. Then when the s3 comes out you'd want to switch to cable anyways. I would go with cable if I were you.


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## Rcam10 (Apr 13, 2004)

I'd planned on buying one too, but if switched digital video becomes more mainstream like it probably will, then it will put quite a limit on what a person can receive. If the S3 will be able to handle then it don't mattter of course. I'm sure there are many people that it won't affect, but could be plenty that it will. 

For me its already something I cannot be that interested in without handling SDV. I'd lose 3 HD channels and lots of the analog thats converted to digital. I'm hoping it will handle that at some point, if not when it first comes out. But if it was compatible from the beginning, that would be much better.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

btl-a4 said:


> With most cable co boxes you can return on a whim with no penalties, so you could keep it tille the s3 comes out and ditch the cabelco dvr and put the s3 to use. I think most sat co's make you pay for the dvr, could be wrong. Then when the s3 comes out you'd want to switch to cable anyways. I would go with cable if I were you.


Problem with that is, if you have just basic cable, then you have to upgrade a couple of tiers to use the cableco's DVR....more $$. No way on God's green earth am I gonna do that just to "tide me over" until S3 shows up. Thank you....but I'll wait and save my pennies.


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## btl-a4 (Dec 28, 2005)

Bierboy said:


> Problem with that is, if you have just basic cable, then you have to upgrade a couple of tiers to use the cableco's DVR....more $$. No way on God's green earth am I gonna do that just to "tide me over" until S3 shows up. Thank you....but I'll wait and save my pennies.


That's fine It wasn't directed at you, I was talking to the OP.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

nhaigh said:


> The problem I see is that they come out in the fall which is about four month after Comcast reckon they wil have their TiVo available. I suspect half the potential market will be Comcast customers by the time TiVo get the S3 out.


Tivo would be stupid to let that happen - I'm betting the Series 3 will be out before the Comcast software is available.

If not, there's no hope for Tivo marketing ...


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> I'm not in Comcast country, so I'll be getting 2 S3 units regardless of cost.


I am in Comcast country and will still get at least two Series 3s. Also have a brand-new 6413 III that I'm going to keep long enough to get the Tivo software load just to compare ...

The only thing I haven't figured out yet is if I'm going to tell DirecTV that I'm cancelling because Comcast has more current Tivo software or I have a Series 3  ... of course, I'll have to write DirecTV corporate, because their CSRs still think they sell Tivo ...


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Rcam10 said:


> I'd planned on buying one too, but if switched digital video becomes more mainstream like it probably will, then it will put quite a limit on what a person can receive. If the S3 will be able to handle then it don't mattter of course. I'm sure there are many people that it won't affect, but could be plenty that it will.
> 
> For me its already something I cannot be that interested in without handling SDV. I'd lose 3 HD channels and lots of the analog thats converted to digital. I'm hoping it will handle that at some point, if not when it first comes out. But if it was compatible from the beginning, that would be much better.


When/if Comcast uses SDV on my system that prevents my cable-card enabled device from getting all the channels I pay for using a cable card I have to rent from them, I'll be looking for a class-action lawyer right after I file complaints with my local franchising authority and the FCC.


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## xnevergiveinx (Apr 5, 2004)

i wouldn't mind checking out some reviews on it after it comes out. i won't buy one. i have analog cable and a tv that won't even accept s-video....so, a series 3 would be the same as a series 2 to me...until my tv dies and i get a nice lcd


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

xnevergiveinx said:


> i wouldn't mind checking out some reviews on it after it comes out. i won't buy one. i have analog cable and a tv that won't even accept s-video....so, a series 3 would be the same as a series 2 to me...until my tv dies and i get a nice lcd


Me too, but my 8-year-old Sony is still going strong! Can I poison it, or something?


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## Navarre (Jan 3, 2005)

couple questions. I'm currently using a Moxi DVR from charter. never had a tivo

How many shows will the s3 likely be able to record? OR, do we think it will be better able to differentiate between new and repeat airings? For example, tues nights now i'm wanting to record Veronica, The Unit, and Scrubs all at the same time. Obviously, the MOXI can't do that. I also can't tell it to record either the Wed or Sun night repeat airings of Veronica. 

Second, If I get the Cable card from charter, am i still gonna be paying tivo for anything? cause at that point, I'm getting the EPG from charter right?


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

I have lifeline basic cable with Comcast (and no box). Even without HD, I am considering a Series 3, just because it seems so awesome, and I'll have HD in the next few years most likely anyway. Though I too will consider the ComcasTiVo. Though it will be a big upgrade in price of service.....I'll have to balance that in the decision.....I also will be very curious what the bundled price of a S3 will be.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

Navarre said:


> How many shows will the s3 likely be able to record?


The S3 will be able to record two shows simultaneously.


Navarre said:


> OR, do we think it will be better able to differentiate between new and repeat airings? For example, tues nights now i'm wanting to record Veronica, The Unit, and Scrubs all at the same time. Obviously, the MOXI can't do that. I also can't tell it to record either the Wed or Sun night repeat airings of Veronica.


All TiVos can do this. If you select First Run Only the TiVo will only record new show; but if it can get the first airing because of conflicts it will grab a later airing (up to 28 days later) of that episode.

So in this example, if you had The Unit and Scrubs ranked above Veronica Mars in the S3's season pass manager (so they have a higher recording priority) then Veronica Mars will automatically be recorded during the weekend repeat, because it was blocked by higher priority recordings on Tuesday.

If you had all three season passes set to First Run Only, then any time either Scrubs or The Unit was a rerun the TiVo would record Veronica Mars (assuming it was a new episode) on Tuesday, rather than waiting until the weekend.


Navarre said:


> Second, If I get the Cable card from charter, am i still gonna be paying tivo for anything? cause at that point, I'm getting the EPG from charter right?


Yes, you still have to pay TiVo.

I don't know that the S3 is actually going to use the cable companies EPG, since those are of uneven quality. It may well just download that information from TiVo like the existing TiVos do.

But in either case, TiVo will want to be paid. Assuming that you purchase the S3 outright, the monthly fee will probably be the normal $12.95/month. ($6.95/month for any additional units).

If TiVo chooses to offer a $0 upfront pricing where you pay for the box as part of the monthly fees rather than upfront I have no idea what they'd set that to.

Hope this was helpful.


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## Navarre (Jan 3, 2005)

thx, that helps. Don't understand why i'd be paying both cable and tivo, but maybe that'll be more clear later on. 

I wonder if changing the rankings on these three will help on the Moxi. Have to look into that.


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## dsb411 (Sep 29, 2004)

jfh3 said:


> The only thing I haven't figured out yet is if I'm going to tell DirecTV that I'm cancelling because Comcast has more current Tivo software or I have a Series 3  ... of course, I'll have to write DirecTV corporate, because their CSRs still think they sell Tivo ...


Actually as of this morning they do, and will continue to do so, for atleast 3 more years.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

btl-a4 said:


> That's fine It wasn't directed at you, I was talking to the OP.


Well, excuuuuuuse me...


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## larrs (May 2, 2005)

btl-a4 said:


> With most cable co boxes you can return on a whim with no penalties, so you could keep it tille the s3 comes out and ditch the cabelco dvr and put the s3 to use. I think most sat co's make you pay for the dvr, could be wrong. Then when the s3 comes out you'd want to switch to cable anyways. I would go with cable if I were you.


This certainly makes sense, but you don't know my wife. If she learns to control that cable dvr, it may be problematic to get her back to Tivo again.

But, your scenario is the most likely for me.


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## larrs (May 2, 2005)

Navarre said:


> couple questions. I'm currently using a Moxi DVR from charter. never had a tivo
> 
> How many shows will the s3 likely be able to record? OR, do we think it will be better able to differentiate between new and repeat airings? For example, tues nights now i'm wanting to record Veronica, The Unit, and Scrubs all at the same time. Obviously, the MOXI can't do that. I also can't tell it to record either the Wed or Sun night repeat airings of Veronica.
> 
> Second, If I get the Cable card from charter, am i still gonna be paying tivo for anything? cause at that point, I'm getting the EPG from charter right?


The S3 will do the same two at a time that Moxi does today. But, trust me, I have both and the Tivo is worth at least a few bucks to eliminate the headaches of the cable dvrs. Here, Charter has said the cablecard is $1.50 per month. Add that to $13 per month for a subscription to Tivo (maybe even $20-25 a month and no box to buy, who knows?) and I would still get the S3. My Charter DVR is $9.95 a month plus $3.99 rental on the box.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

What is "switched digital video"?


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

larrs said:


> The S3 will do the same two at a time that Moxi does today. But, trust me, I have both and the Tivo is worth at least a few bucks to eliminate the headaches of the cable dvrs. Here, Charter has said the cablecard is $1.50 per month. Add that to $13 per month for a subscription to Tivo (maybe even $20-25 a month and no box to buy, who knows?) and I would still get the S3. My Charter DVR is $9.95 a month plus $3.99 rental on the box.


 As has come up in other threads for the equivalent functionality of cable co. DVR you need 2 single stream cablecards (it's unlikely your cable co. will have a multi-stream card available to rent when S3 first comes out). And if you check with your cable company a second cablecard is usually considered as a second digital cable box (without box charges of course). So for many that means more than just 2x a single cable card charge. For my cable company there is an additional digital outlet charge, an additional HD service charge as well as the additional cablecard rental, and it also means twice the one time cablecard installation fee - they insist on sending a tech over to install cablecard and for 2 they charge you twice.


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## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

MickeS said:


> What is "switched digital video"?


There's several posts on this thread that pretty well cover the topic:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3921610&&#post3921610


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

moyekj said:


> As has come up in other threads for the equivalent functionality of cable co. DVR you need 2 single stream cablecards (it's unlikely your cable co. will have a multi-stream card available to rent when S3 first comes out).


Though some of us are intrigued by the dual tuner ability and ability to record OTA DTV and unscrambled HD-over-cable...

(Less so with no lifetime available through standard means, but I'm watching some eBay auctions.)


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

dsb411 said:


> Actually as of this morning they do, and will continue to do so, for atleast 3 more years.


No, they don't. Nothing has changed regarding selling Tivo. DTV is only going to be selling the HR10-250 until the R20 is available. They don't have any stock on the standard DirecTivo, so despite what they may say, you won't get a DirecTivo unless an installer has some old stock.

Today's agreement is for service of existing customers, not sales of new ones.

MAYBE it means that HR10-250 owners FINALLY see 6.2 or above, but I'm not holding my breath.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

dt_dc said:


> There's several posts on this thread that pretty well cover the topic:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3921610&&#post3921610


Thanks! Bummer if that gains widespread acceptance by cable companies...


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## Navarre (Jan 3, 2005)

arent the 2.0 cable cards out yet? I recall reading like a year ago when i was buying my 57 inch hitachi set that those would be out like a year later. 

The moxi works fine I guess, although i really want to be able to transfer stuff to pc for saving/later viewing whatever. However, what's gonna be a problem for me is paying cable for the card and cable, and paying tivo for the epg. that makes no sense. I can see it with sat sorta, but not with cable. 

If moxi were to finally offer pc transfer, I doubt I'd get a tivo unless it offered something else.


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## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

Navarre said:


> arent the 2.0 cable cards out yet? I recall reading like a year ago when i was buying my 57 inch hitachi set that those would be out like a year later.


The standard for two-way functionality has not been finalized / agreed to by all the interested parties.

Anything you read about when two-way functionality will start being deployed is speculation. Sometimes well-founded speculation ... sometimes not so much. There's always someone speculating it's "just around the corner" or "almost here" or "within a year".

Then again, there are some who speculate it'll happen later ...
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3784483&&#post3784483


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## gtrogue (Jun 18, 2001)

Navarre said:


> arent the 2.0 cable cards out yet? I recall reading like a year ago when i was buying my 57 inch hitachi set that those would be out like a year later.
> 
> The moxi works fine I guess, although i really want to be able to transfer stuff to pc for saving/later viewing whatever. However, what's gonna be a problem for me is paying cable for the card and cable, and paying tivo for the epg. that makes no sense. I can see it with sat sorta, but not with cable.
> 
> If moxi were to finally offer pc transfer, I doubt I'd get a tivo unless it offered something else.


CableCards usually cost a couple of bucks to lease and you are already paying your company for leasing the Moxi and for service. If you broke it down it probably isn't but a few dollars more to have Tivo instead of Moxi.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

gtrogue said:


> CableCards usually cost a couple of bucks to lease and you are already paying your company for leasing the Moxi and for service. If you broke it down it probably isn't but a few dollars more to have Tivo instead of Moxi.


Unless you try to get more than 1 CableCard. Check with your cable co, but in many cases they will charge you much more for 2 cable cards.


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## larrs (May 2, 2005)

moyekj said:


> As has come up in other threads for the equivalent functionality of cable co. DVR you need 2 single stream cablecards (it's unlikely your cable co. will have a multi-stream card available to rent when S3 first comes out). And if you check with your cable company a second cablecard is usually considered as a second digital cable box (without box charges of course). So for many that means more than just 2x a single cable card charge. For my cable company there is an additional digital outlet charge, an additional HD service charge as well as the additional cablecard rental, and it also means twice the one time cablecard installation fee - they insist on sending a tech over to install cablecard and for 2 they charge you twice.


I did fail to include two cable cards in my post. However here the charges would only be $1.50 x2 for the cable cards. I already pay $9.95 per month for HD service which includes as many hd cable boxes/cable cards as I care to rent. So, based on that it would look something like this:

Cable Co.
Box Rental $3.99
DVR Service $9.95
Total $13.94

Tivo S3 (assuming the same pricing as today)
Rent the box $16.95 (three year plan)
Cable card rental $3.00 (two cards)
Total $19.95

In my opinion (unless the cable dvr is one of the new ones based on Tivo, and since I have used both the Moxi from Motorola and the HD DVR from Scientific Atlanta) the Tivo unit will be the best buy even at the additional $6.01 per month in that the reliability, user interface, etc. is worth the $0.20 per day- not to mention the fact that at the end of the three years, the service would drop to $12.95 plus $3.00 for the cable cards (once again, based on current prices- even if the S3 is $24.95 per month at first it would be worth it to me).


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## larrs (May 2, 2005)

rainwater said:


> Unless you try to get more than 1 CableCard. Check with your cable co, but in many cases they will charge you much more for 2 cable cards.


I did call Charter and they said the limit is two per household at this time due to limited availability.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

larrs said:


> I did call Charter and they said the limit is two per household at this time due to limited availability.


Im not positive, but I think if you mumble under your breath that the FCC wouldnt be happy about that, they would quickly find you more.

Unless they are caught in a stock shortage with S cards while they are waiting on a shipment of M-cards I cant think of any other case where the FCC would be happy to hear they are limiting them.

Not sure what the FCC enforcement is like if there is any at all, but Id certainly try to play that card if I needed to.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

larrs said:


> I did fail to include two cable cards in my post. However here the charges would only be $1.50 x2 for the cable cards. I already pay $9.95 per month for HD service which includes as many hd cable boxes/cable cards as I care to rent. So, based on that it would look something like this:
> 
> Cable Co.
> Box Rental $3.99
> ...


If this were the case I could afford at least one. I am in total agreement about the reliability factor. Unlike many cable boxes tho the TiVo still plays and has guide data when the cable is out. Been very handy during outtages caused by bad weather here in my area.


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## danielhart (Apr 27, 2004)

skanter said:


> Me too, but my 8-year-old Sony is still going strong! Can I poison it, or something?


Please excuse the intrusion on the thread:

Hey Skanter - I just tried to send you a PM , but your box is full. Can you clear some space?

Daniel


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## devlindark (Jul 20, 2005)

I must make a simple Statement

WE WANT OUR SERIES 3 NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NOT IN 4 OR 6 OR 8 MONTHS NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

I Love my tivo but at $799 they can keep it for a couple more years and then I will buy one at like $199 or $249.99. Tivo is great and all but aren't they still operating in the Red 
I can't see a huge blow out sale at $799 each except for the independently wealthy and those who will charge now and pay later, 

It's the Paycheck to Paycheck people Tivo Seems to be missing and they were for a long time until they drop the price on the series 2 boxes and gave great rebates, but at that much money forget it I will wait and watch the price fall


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

devlindark said:


> I must make a simple Statement
> 
> WE WANT OUR SERIES 3 NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> NOT IN 4 OR 6 OR 8 MONTHS NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!
> ...


  You want the Series 3 *NOW*, but you will wait a couple of years and buy it at $199 or $249.99. Which is it?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

larrs said:


> I did fail to include two cable cards in my post. However here the charges would only be $1.50 x2 for the cable cards. I already pay $9.95 per month for HD service which includes as many hd cable boxes/cable cards as I care to rent. So, based on that it would look something like this:
> 
> Cable Co.
> Box Rental $3.99
> ...


First point

What give you the impression that TiVo is going RENT the TiVo S3 for the same price as they are charging for their S2 80 hour unit. You can't rent the TiVo with a DVD in it for that price.

2nd point

You all are leaving out the fact that the cable box has an unlimited warranty (on sight no less) on their cable box, as new technology comes they will exchange it for you at no cost (I have had 4 Cable boxes in the last 1.5 years)

3rd point

Without the cable box you will not get IN Demand or PPV, these are no cost options with the cable co. box

I don't think TiVo will be as easy a sell as you people think. As far as upgrading the S3 hard Drive I would bet TiVo is going use SATA drives and MFStool will not work like it does now. It will take some time for someone to come up with a HD upgrade path for the S3 and TiVo may want the business for themselves by putting in some type of DRM in their system.

For most people the DVR cable box is one easy solution at a very low price.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

lessd said:


> Without the cable box you will not get IN Demand or PPV, these are no cost options with the cable co. box


No cost PPV? Now there's a new idea.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

ChuckyBox said:


> No cost PPV? Now there's a new idea.


I mean not having the option of paying to get PPV, some people like PPV, I use Netflex for movies.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

lessd said:


> ...
> 2nd point
> 
> You all are leaving out the fact that the cable box has an unlimited warranty (on sight no less) on their cable box, as new technology comes they will exchange it for you at no cost (I have had 4 Cable boxes in the last 1.5 years)
> ...


while i agree with many of your points-
On site warranty? Most places that I have heard cable charges a service call to come to your house no matter what. If you want to trade the box- you usually can for FREE but you need to drive down to their office and swap it there.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

MichaelK said:


> while i agree with many of your points-
> On site warranty? Most places that I have heard cable charges a service call to come to your house no matter what. If you want to trade the box- you usually can for FREE but you need to drive down to their office and swap it there.


Comcast in my area does not charge for a service call (they charge if you want new cable run), I drive down to the cable office myself because its easier and you don't have to wait for the guy to show up but its still free!!


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## Shawn95GT (Oct 7, 2005)

I'm curious is the S3 will play nice MRVing to a S2 TiVo via some kind of down-convert. If not I'm definately going to be buying at least two.

I expect MRV from S2 to S3 to be a non-issue.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

S2 units do not have the hardware to support play back of HD content. Which means you'll probably be able to MRV non-HD content, but not HD.

Dan


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## Shawn95GT (Oct 7, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> S2 units do not have the hardware to support play back of HD content. Which means you'll probably be able to MRV non-HD content, but not HD.
> 
> Dan


Right - but if the horsepower was there they may be able to encode a letterboxed SD down convert (ok, I know it's a stretch  ).

Shawn


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

lessd said:


> Comcast in my area does not charge for a service call (they charge if you want new cable run), I drive down to the cable office myself because its easier and you don't have to wait for the guy to show up but its still free!!


I think thats an anomaly- or at least cablevision is full of service fees.

My coworker was just telling me this morning he switched from Directv to Cablevision over the weekend. After the installer left, he noticed the digital audio out on one of his boxes was bad. He called service and they told him it would be a service call for the guy to come out but he could drive the box to their office himself for a free swap.

My Brother-in-law (also with cablevision- so that might be the pattern) got a new TV and wanted to switch from SD to HD Box. THEY REFUSED to allow him to go to the office (literally one block away) and swap boxes. He had to pay a service call for a truck roll for the an HD install. Finally after some arguing they let my brother swap the boxes at the office if he agreed to pay for the truck roll regardless.

So universally free service calls from cable arent a fact. Might just be some providers charging but cablevision certainly isnt a mom and pop with a handful of subs.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> I think thats an anomaly- or at least cablevision is full of service fees.
> 
> My coworker was just telling me this morning he switched from Directv to Cablevision over the weekend. After the installer left, he noticed the digital audio out on one of his boxes was bad. He called service and they told him it would be a service call for the guy to come out but he could drive the box to their office himself for a free swap.
> 
> ...


Cable companies have a long history of not looking out for anyone but themselves. If any industry needs regulation, that's one.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

MichaelK said:


> I think thats an anomaly- or at least cablevision is full of service fees.
> 
> My coworker was just telling me this morning he switched from Directv to Cablevision over the weekend. After the installer left, he noticed the digital audio out on one of his boxes was bad. He called service and they told him it would be a service call for the guy to come out but he could drive the box to their office himself for a free swap.
> 
> ...


Same deal here w/Comacast

They wanted $30 from me to swap an HD box for an HD DVR. I offered to pick it up myself and was told it had to be installed by a tech. They agreed to cut it down to $15 and then I ended up hooking it up myself because the tech. had no clue. With Comcast, it all depends on your area.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Shawn95GT said:


> Right - but if the horsepower was there they may be able to encode a letterboxed SD down convert (ok, I know it's a stretch  ).
> 
> Shawn


I really suspect they won't do this.

My standalone (non-Tivo) hard drive recorder can do the analogous thing -- reconvert from one rate to another.. But that's because it's essentially just playing and recording at the same time. So it's *using* a recorder to do this.

Being able to explain the UI that "you can't watch this now because both tuners are recording something" would make it way too complicated for regular users.

It could also theoretically do it computationally (without using an MPEG encoder/decoder combo), but again.. that would be really slow, and how do you explain to a real user??


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> I think thats an anomaly- or at least cablevision is full of service fees.
> 
> [Detail removed]
> 
> So universally free service calls from cable arent a fact. Might just be some providers charging but cablevision certainly isnt a mom and pop with a handful of subs.


Not just Cablevision - that sounds like Comcast in my area. The only way to avoid a truck roll is to walk in to the office, but then it's a crap shoot what box you get for replacement.

And no matter what you say or do, you can't get a CableCard without a truck roll, even though you may know more than the tech they send.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

Shawn95GT said:


> Right - but if the horsepower was there they may be able to encode a letterboxed SD down convert (ok, I know it's a stretch  ).
> 
> Shawn


I doubt they'll do that, but what I'm wondering is if the new (leaked) Series 2 dual tuner boxes will have an mpeg2 decoder that is capable of natively converting HD to SD on the fly for output. The file isn't changed, but the unit outputs an SD signal. I've seen nothing to support that idea, but there are chips out there that can do that.

And if they did then the S3 could send an HD program to a S2-DT and the S2-DT could play it back as SD. Of course, the file would still be very big, and take a long time to transfer, but that would allow you to watch it.


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## Shawn95GT (Oct 7, 2005)

Jonathan_S said:


> I doubt they'll do that, but what I'm wondering is if the new (leaked) Series 2 dual tuner boxes will have an mpeg2 decoder that is capable of natively converting HD to SD on the fly for output. The file isn't changed, but the unit outputs an SD signal. I've seen nothing to support that idea, but there are chips out there that can do that.
> 
> And if they did then the S3 could send an HD program to a S2-DT and the S2-DT could play it back as SD. Of course, the file would still be very big, and take a long time to transfer, but that would allow you to watch it.


I'd be happy with that. It keeps the S2(s) usefull when the S3 comes to the table.


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## d_anders (Oct 12, 2000)

NYGD1424 said:


> Last I heard it will be out in the fall of 06 and the first box cost somewhere around $800. Good luck selling those with that price.


For the first month or two, they'll sell at those prices to all the salivating early adopters who've gone on record here that they'll buy one at almost any cost.


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## zleep (Jan 8, 2005)

Jonathan_S said:


> I doubt they'll do that, but what I'm wondering is if the new (leaked) Series 2 dual tuner boxes will have an mpeg2 decoder that is capable of natively converting HD to SD on the fly for output. The file isn't changed, but the unit outputs an SD signal. I've seen nothing to support that idea, but there are chips out there that can do that.


I'm betting the DT box will be using the bcm7318 (with a bcm7042 encoder). That's what's in the TGC boxes, IIRC. Perhaps a bcm7038 in the S3? Note that broadcom specifically mentions software drivers to support the TiVo platform. TiVo has been a broadcom house, though the fact that Broadcom testified against TiVo in the recent Echostar trial might sour the relationship.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Jonathan_S said:


> I doubt they'll do that, but what I'm wondering is if the new (leaked) Series 2 dual tuner boxes will have an mpeg2 decoder that is capable of natively converting HD to SD on the fly for output. The file isn't changed, but the unit outputs an SD signal. I've seen nothing to support that idea, but there are chips out there that can do that.


The model number difference between the S2 DT and the S3 suggests that they will be using the same core hardware platform.* If this turns out to be the case then it is very possible that the S2 DT could be capable of downresing HD content, as this is a confirmed feature of the chip being used in the S3. It would also mean that the S2 DT would be capable of decoding MPEG-4 which is also a confirmed feature of the S3.

Dan

* With current S2 units TiVo uses the first digit of the model number to denote the core platform, even if functionality of the unit is different. For example the Pioneer DVD-R units model number starts with a 2 because they're based on the same core platform as the 240 units. The Toshiba and Humax DVD-R units model numbers start with a 5 because they're based on the 540 series TiVos. Both the S2 DT and S3 units have model numbers which start with a 6, which suggests they're based on the same core platform.


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## zleep (Jan 8, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> The model number difference between the S2 DT and the S3 suggests that they will be using the same core hardware platform.* If this turns out to be the case then it is very possible that the S2 DT could be capable of downresing HD content, as this is a confirmed feature of the chip being used in the S3. It would also mean that the S2 DT would be capable of decoding MPEG-4 which is also a confirmed feature of the S3.


Note that the "640" llama hardware platform is supported by the current tivo software (7.2.2), which loads drivers for the bcm7318 and bcm7042 chips. This might be a clue about what we can expect in other "6" series core platforms.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

MichaelK said:


> I think thats an anomaly- or at least cablevision is full of service fees.
> 
> My coworker was just telling me this morning he switched from Directv to Cablevision over the weekend. After the installer left, he noticed the digital audio out on one of his boxes was bad. He called service and they told him it would be a service call for the guy to come out but he could drive the box to their office himself for a free swap.
> 
> ...


Just an update to make folks chuckle.

Im totally dying waiting for a series 3 to bail on directv and go back to cable and get triple play.

But my friend with the new cablevision install is making me remember how evil cable is. AS above he had an issue with digital audio and he had to swap the box. This morning he gets up and his VOIP is dead. HE calls in on his cell phone and they sent a hit back to the cable modem to fix the problem. He calls home at lunch to check voicemail- doesnt work. He runs home and checks his phone and its dead again. People can call and it will ring but after 2 seconds its all dead air. He calls cablevision again (on the cell phone) and they decide its a bad splitter that was installed before the cable modem. They can send a guy out Friday 2-4 or my friend can take the splitter and drive down to their office and swap it. He didnt get a chance to ask if there would be a service fee for truck roll on Friday- he figures his wife will kick his ass without phone for 2 days and its one thing to skip out of the office for 10 minutes at lunch a whole nother to take 2 hours to wait around for some cable ahole in the middle of the day. So hell be driving the 15 miles to their office again tonight to swap a stinking splitter.

Boy Tivo really better make the Series 3 kick butt so I can overlook just how evil cable is- LOL.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Wow very cool if the s2-dt is based on series 3 hardware. Seems like a lot of clues that its possible..

BUT 

Wouldnt they just call it an S3-SD if it was based on the series 3 platform? Wouldnt you want to hype if it had the MPEG4 and other capabilities of the S3 as a step above S2?


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> Wouldnt you want to hype if it had the MPEG4 and other capabilities of the S3 as a step above S2?


Hype it? Heck, I'll be happy if they just advertise it.

I'm not sure Tivo gets advertising, let alone hype ... 

As for the other comment, we've had the "is it Series 2 vs. Series 3 or Series 3 SD vs. HD discussion before - IIRC, it ended in a tie.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> * With current S2 units TiVo uses the first digit of the model number to denote the core platform, even if functionality of the unit is different. For example the Pioneer DVD-R units model number starts with a 2 because they're based on the same core platform as the 240 units. The Toshiba and Humax DVD-R units model numbers start with a 5 because they're based on the 540 series TiVos. Both the S2 DT and S3 units have model numbers which start with a 6, which suggests they're based on the same core platform.


Any idea what the third digit, e.g. the "9" in "649", signifies?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Nope. 

Dan


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

for us ignormaouses - whats the second digit?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

d_anders said:


> ...all the salivating early adopters who've gone on record here that they'll buy one at almost any cost.


HUH?....did someone call my name?!


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## stevereis (Feb 24, 2006)

MichaelK said:


> for us ignormaouses - whats the second digit?


According an old post from January on this page:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3662121&&#post3662121



classicsat said:


> It is the label brand of the DVR. 4 signifies TiVo. 0 is Philips, 1 is Sony, 3 Hughes (I think), 9 is Humax, E is TGC. there are others. First digit is series, last digit is hardware variation. (0=standalone, 1= DirecTV 4= DVD Player, 5= DVD recorder, etc).


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Good find steve. 

Dan


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## JamieP (Aug 3, 2004)

stevereis said:


> According an old post from January on this page: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3662121&&#post3662121


There's a more complete taxonomy of the three digit model codes and platform names on DDB in threads titled "Model Comparison" and "Series 2 models". Contributed by classicsat and others.


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## stevereis (Feb 24, 2006)

JamieP said:


> There's a more complete taxonomy of the three digit model codes and platform names on DDB in threads titled "Model Comparison" and "Series 2 models". Contributed by classicsat and others.


Sorry, I could not find the info you are referring to. Could you elaborate more on where to find this?

From the previous post and what is known about model numbers, the same first digit implies these are the same HW platform. The 3rd digit for the new boxes implies:

8 = HD, Dual Tuner: CableCard, Inputs: Cable, OTA, but no analog video inputs (AKA Series 3) 
9 = SD, Dual Tuner: ?????????, Inputs: Cable, ???, analog video in w/IR blasters surmised (AKA Series 2 DT)

It's never been confirmed how the DT will handle the one digital cable lineup mentioned in the product capabilities. Options are either via the current method (IR blasters controlling a digital cable box) but there has been speculation about CableCard as well. The recent CableLabs test document showing Series3/648 approval would seem to imply the 649 will not have CableCard since it did not show up on the list and is presumably on the verge of release. However, one has to wonder if they could not qualify it by similarity if the 649 HW was truly a subset of the 648 and it was the essentially the same system software. Especially so if it used the same CableCard/ security SW that deals with the CableCard and stream decryption.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

stevereis said:


> Sorry, I could not find the info you are referring to. Could you elaborate more on where to find this?


http://[email protected]@[email protected]@se.com/forum

replace the "@"s with "a"s


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## stevereis (Feb 24, 2006)

Posting the info from *classicsat*'s post on that 'other' forum into this thread
My updates are *bold*, based on the new model numbers:
TCD648250A - HD, Dual Tuner, Dual CableCard, Dual ATSC
TCD649180/TCD649080 - SD, Dual Tuner, w/lots of question marks

Model format ABCDDD
ABC being the first digits of a TiVo or AT&T brand Model, and the first 3 digits of the service number. DDD is a representaion of drive size.

A is platform series:
0: Series 1
1: Series 2 Gen 1, USB 1.1 Standalone / Pre RID DirecTV DVR (USB 2.0)
2: Series 2 Gen 2, USB 2.0 Standalone.
3: Series 2 Gen 1, RID DirecTV DVR (USB2.0).
4: Series 2 Gen 2, RID DirecTV DVR.
5: Series 2.5 Gen 3, USB2.0 Standalone *+ DirecTV DVR (R10)*
*6: Series 3?, configurations seem to includes HD/SD models below*

B is manuufacturer:
0: Philips
1: Sony
2: Toshiba *or RCA (121, 321, 521)?*
3: AT&T *or Hughes?*
4: TiVo
5: Pioneer *or Hughes (151, 351, 357, etc.)?*
6: RCA/Thomson *or Toshiba (264, 565)?*
7: Hughes *or Pioneer: 275?*
8: Samsung
9: Humax
*E: TGC (TiVo Greater China)?*
*Followup posts over there indicate 2/6 and 3/7 may be swapped*

C is hardware configuration
0: Single HDD drive
1: DirecTV DVR
2: dual HDD *any reports of these?*
4: DVD player
5: DVD recorder
*8: HD Dual Tuner w/CableCard - the box shown at CES2006*
*9: SD Dual Tuner - the box 'leaked' on shopping sites in March '06*


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

stevereis said:


> Sorry, I could not find the info you are referring to. Could you elaborate more on where to find this?
> 
> From the previous post and what is known about model numbers, the same first digit implies these are the same HW platform. The 3rd digit for the new boxes implies:
> 
> ...


Also- if I recall correctly- devices can be confirmed cable card compatible by cable labs (like the series 3) OR manufacturers can do certain testing (maybe through third party labs) themselves and still say cable card on the device. So possibly Tivo only submitted the series 3 but did their own testing to on the DT since they know the hardware is fine.

Long shot I know- just pointing out the possibility since cable labs doesnt check every device necessarily.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The Series 2 DT is NOT a CableCARD device. It will control the external box via IR blaster or serial cable just like the current units. The dual tuners will only apply to the RF input on the box itself. 

The only thing really up in the air about the DT units is...

1) Whether or not they support OTA. (due to regulations that prevent analog only OTA tuners from being sold after 2007)
2) Whether or not they can play MPEG-4 video.
3) Whether or not they can downres and play back HD recordings transfered from a S3 unit.

Dan


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