# Veronica Mars S3 Premiere *spoilers*



## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

The season three premiere of _Veronica Mars_ airs on the CW next Tuesday October 3, but there is a "sneak peek" available online at MSN.com.

I'm not sure what the rules are for discussing this episode early if it's only available online, but I know there were threads for discussing shows that premiered early on Netflix and other places. Has anyone else seen it?

I enjoyed it. It's very lighthearted in tone and emphasized the quippiness and comedic elements of the show, probably in an effort to appeal to the GG fans to keep them watching. I also thought it was probably more appealing and easier to follow for new VM viewers than last season's premiere.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

I'm not watching until it airs on the CW, but they're definitely trying to appeal to the GG audience.

Veronica Mars, the most critically lauded show on the new network, will be paired with Gilmore Girls on Tuesdays, and the title character is starting college when the show returns Oct. 3. This season, the teen detective show will air in three distinct blocks, without repeats within those blocks, so that creator Rob Thomas can tell three overarching Mars mystery stories, in addition to mysteries of the week.

I do think the stakes are higher and I certainly think the pressure is more pronounced, Thomas said in an interview. There was a always a certain safety I felt in [being on] UPN, once I got on the schedule, because they didnt have a lot behind us waiting to take our spot.

Now, on the CW, I know they have midseason shows ready to go in case we dont do well out of the gate. So theres certainly more pressure that way. Also, I do believe that success will be measured by how well we retain the `Gilmore Girls audience.

Thomas has said hes constructed the Mars season opener to be inviting to Gilmore Girls fans. It doesnt assume any knowledge. There arent any flashbacks, he says.

Im trying, in those first three acts, to say to the `Gilmore Girls audience, `Hey look, we have fun, fast banter. We have a great parent-daughter relationship. Watch us, too!


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

cherry ghost said:


> Im trying, in those first three acts, to say to the `Gilmore Girls audience, `Hey look, we have fun, fast banter. We have a great parent-daughter relationship. Watch us, too!


I think he totally succeeded. But what do I know? I already love the show.

But it was very clear that's what he was trying to do in this episode - appeal to the new viewer, hold onto the GG audience. Veronica had more quips than Lorelai Gilmore. Okay, not that many, but almost. It was very quippy and very light on the dark stuff. (Until the very end anyway, when it came through with the trademark VM punch to the gut.)


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## mrpantstm (Jan 25, 2005)

I'll probably wait till it airs on the CW.

Maybe...

October 3rd isn't that far away.

Maybe...


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## kleinman (Oct 6, 2003)

Anyone else read this title and think their Tivo had missed the premiere?

Bad Magnolia, bad!


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

Sorry!!!  

But you will notice I did not put the "air date" in the title, because it hasn't aired yet and that would be against the rules. (Tuesday, October 3! On the CW! 9pm ET!)

But is nobody out there going to watch it early online? Y'all have more willpower than I do. I want to talk about it!


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Magnolia88 said:


> I enjoyed it. It's very lighthearted in tone and emphasized the quippiness and comedic elements of the show, probably in an effort to appeal to the GG fans to keep them watching. I also thought it was probably more appealing and easier to follow for new VM viewers than last season's premiere.


I haven't watched it yet, but hope to have time to do so later in the week. In last week's TV Guide Podcast, Michael Ausiello commented that Rob Thomas told him that in his mind, the "real" Veronica Mars doesn't really start until episode two of this season. Apparently he intentionally kept the tone lighter in the first week to do exactly as you've said, appeal to the GG audience. But starting in week two, it sounds like it'll be back to the gloom and nihilism we've come to know and love.


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

cmontyburns said:


> In last week's TV Guide Podcast, Michael Ausiello commented that Rob Thomas told him that in his mind, the "real" Veronica Mars doesn't really start until episode two of this season. Apparently he intentionally kept the tone lighter in the first week to do exactly as you've said, appeal to the GG audience.


Yeah, he pretty much said the same thing last night in a VM Teleconference that he did with Tina Majorino to answer fan questions. Here's a brief recap, but I left out the most spoilery stuff.


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## analog4 (Aug 1, 2003)

Neat - new credits.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Weird. I tried watching it - all it did was show me a slide saying "this content may not be available in your region" then played a bunch of other ads and such.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Typical Microsoft. Mac-unfriendly garbage. Looks like I'll have to wait for the OTA version... rats.


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## mrpantstm (Jan 25, 2005)

Damn you Magnolia.

Against my better judgement I watched it. You've rekindled my VM addiction. Now I have to wait. TWO WEEKS!!!!

 

On the other hand, loved it. Great season premier. Lot of questions but I think I'll wait till it official airs to start asking.

Kirsten Bell, smoking hot. I know it's old news but still.

The new roommate, you wouldn't know what actor plays him? He looks an awful lot like Dan Huard from the Screensavers .


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

I finally was able to get it to play. So - is this going to be the episode thread, or should we wait until it actually airs and start another thread? And should we start discussing now, or wait until then?


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## davemcs (Nov 18, 2003)

for those of you VM fans who just can't wait to see S03E01 (or won't be home to see it), its available here via streaming Real Player.

Veronica Mars


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

mrpantstm said:


> Damn you Magnolia.
> 
> Against my better judgement I watched it. You've rekindled my VM addiction. Now I have to wait. TWO WEEKS!!!!


Sorry! 

Why am I getting all this grief? I thought I was providing helpful information!! 

Anyway, I know this isn't the "official episode thread" because under the rules, that thread can't be started until the episode airs (or one hour before or whatever). But all the other shows that were available early (Studio 60, etc.) had discussion threads before they aired.

I just wanted to see what the general reaction was. I give it a thumbs-up, although I want to see it again on the big(ger) screen before talking about the plot in any detail.



> Kirsten Bell, smoking hot. I know it's old news but still.


Yes, _Kristen_ looks especially good in the premiere. Her hair looks better now that it isn't in that awkward "growing out" phase. I know she personally is happy now that it's longer and she really hated that short flippy haircut (which was leftover from her role in _Spartan_).


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## mrpantstm (Jan 25, 2005)

Magnolia88 said:


> I want to see it again on the big(ger) screen before talking about the plot in any detail.


Agreed. I watched it on my media PC which is connected to my tv so it was full screen but the quality wasn't great. Good but not great.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

davemcs said:


> for those of you VM fans who just can't wait to see S03E01 (or won't be home to see it), its available here via streaming Real Player.
> 
> Veronica Mars


Hm; are you sure this is right? First, my realplayer says "no such file", and second the URL ends in .wmv, which is Windows Media Player format (I thought) not RealPlayer.


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

Other options for seeing the VM premiere.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Well, since this isn't the episode thread, all I will say is that I give it two thumbs up out of three (going by the TiVo rating scale). It was good, but there was a couple of things that I don't think worked as well as they probably should have. 

I liked the quippy dialog, but at the same time, I think the quippy dialog got a little excessive (only a little), and it clashed with the B plot which was darker than I was expecting based on the press release that talked about this episode.

And with that, I'll shut up till it airs.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Well that's aggrevating! It took me forever to get MSN to even start to play it, I got about 3 minutes in and then all of a sudden the video was no longer available. Every time I tried to play the video, it would start to load then jump to a different video of some kind. Now I'll just have to wait until next week.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Magnolia88 said:


> Other options for seeing the VM premiere.


Thank you, my friend.


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## Mabes (Jan 12, 2001)

Magnolia88 said:


> Other options for seeing the VM premiere.


If I didn't get it in HD this year I'd be all over that. By the way, why didn't Kristen Bel make the Best Looking in HD thread? I've seen her on Letterman.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Thanks to Magnolia for providing the alternate links. I waited patiently for it to download and then watched in with rapt attention. I am now annoyed I'll have to wait two weeks for a new episode. Two weeks!

I thought it was great. A little too quippy actually. But loved it overall. I have a few nitpicks. But we'll get into all that with the real discussion thread.

V Mars, it's good to have you back!


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

Glad to be of service. 

(Now if everyone will take back the "I hate you Magnolia" remarks, I would appreciate it. )



Mabes said:


> By the way, why didn't Kristen Bel make the Best Looking in HD thread? I've seen her on Letterman.


Why don't you write to that guy to ask him? It's probably because he doesn't have a clue and doesn't watch VM. If he did, I'm sure she would be on the list. (I haven't seen her in HD but I've seen her in person and she's stunning.)

That's such a weird (and dumb) list anyway. Yeah, Scarlett Johannsen, Beyonce Knowles and Evangeline Lilly are pretty. Howard Stern and Mick Jagger aren't. This is news to someone? Please.


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## etemple (Oct 26, 2003)

I still will miss Beaver, I mean, Cassidy.
Kyle Gallner was in the Cold Case season premiere . . . damn that kid is talented.


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## Swirl_Junkie (Mar 11, 2001)

New Credits? Please tell me they kept " We used to be friends " as the theme song. I'm waiting till the CW.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Swirl_Junkie said:


> New Credits? Please tell me they kept " We used to be friends " as the theme song. I'm waiting till the CW.


Same song, remixed.


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## mrpantstm (Jan 25, 2005)

I liked the new credits. Definitly helps make the transition to college. Bit more adult.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

I watched I couldn't help myself.

There is something going on with Veronica and Logan just not sure what it is yet. Her VO to say "I am the high school girl who takes her BF to college" and her "non" reaction to Piz when he asked if Logan was her boyfriend were both very telling. 

What was up with the Keith storyline? Perhaps I am not remembering S2 very well. Was that Liam in the house at the end? The video was small and dark hard to make out. What was Kendall's role in everything? She was fleecing Dick and Beaver's dad for money? Did we learn what was in the briefcase? 

I thought the Saturn comment was one of the best ever of the series.

Piz -"Veronica Mars drives a Saturn in Neptune?"


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## mrpantstm (Jan 25, 2005)

mwhip said:


> There is something going on with Veronica and Logan just not sure what it is yet. Her VO to say "I am the high school girl who takes her BF to college" and her "non" reaction to Piz when he asked if Logan was her boyfriend were both very telling.


Dunno. I thought Veronica had a reaction to Piz when he asked at the end, like 'Oh crap he's interested in me. How to let him down gently.'

Logan did key(card) her and she seemed genuinely touched by that. I'm sure they'll have problems but I didn't think their relationship was too off.

I thought Logan's comment 'Nothing's ever my fault.' when talking about Cassidy's suicide was more telling given Logan's history of bad luck (Lily dying, mother dying, father dying, Cassidy dying, etc). He seemed kind of depressed.

I wonder with Logan taking in Dick whether that will put a strain on Veronica and Logans relationship since Dick and Veronica have never really liked each other.

I didn't see Duncan in the opening credits. Is he out?



mwhip said:


> What was up with the Keith storyline? Perhaps I am not remembering S2 very well. Was that Liam in the house at the end? The video was small and dark hard to make out. What was Kendall's role in everything? She was fleecing Dick and Beaver's dad for money? Did we learn what was in the briefcase?


That had me scratching my head too and I won't discuss it too much till it officially airs and I see it again. Definitly a darker side to the VM episode.



mwhip said:


> I thought the Saturn comment was one of the best ever of the series.
> 
> Piz -"Veronica Mars drives a Saturn in Neptune?"


Agreed, great comment.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

As for the new characters I like Piz ok will need a couple more episodes to really see. Did not like his lost puppy dog looks when VM was around. Parker I really liked until the end not sure how I will like her as a rape victim. Liked her better as Mac's opposite. 


Also here is one thing that dumbfounds me, why oh why would any girl choose to go to a college that has an active serial rapist?


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

mwhip said:


> IThere is something going on with Veronica and Logan just not sure what it is yet. Her VO to say "I am the high school girl who takes her BF to college" and her "non" reaction to Piz when he asked if Logan was her boyfriend were both very telling.


"Non" reaction? I saw a reaction. Veronica looked at him in surprise, as if to say: "Why do you want to know if he's my boy--OH, I see."

She had no idea that Piz _liked_ her liked her and so the question threw her. But her reaction had nothing to do with Logan, imho.

I agree about the other comment, though. It does seem to imply that she has doubts about how long she and Logan can keep it going. But given everything that's happened, I'm not surprised she's wary. And she's always been very guarded with her emotions, especially in romantic relationships. Both Duncan and Logan have declared their love for her in the past, but she never returned the sentiment. And she knows that she and Logan have a million issues, both separately and together.



mrpantstm said:


> Dunno. I thought Veronica had a reaction to Piz when he asked at the end, like 'Oh crap he's interested in me. How to let him down gently.'


I agree. That's what I thought too. I'm not sure what other people are reading into the way she looked at Piz, but I don't think it had anything to do with Logan. She and Logan seemed pretty happy, all things considered.



> Logan did key(card) her and she seemed genuinely touched by that. I'm sure they'll have problems but I didn't think their relationship was too off.


I agree - I don't think their relationship was "off" at all and she was clearly very happy when he gave her the key and said she was "the only one." You just know that Kendall thing is still sticking in the back of her mind and it was nice to get that reassurance. But she's not one to "forgive and forget" so easily and she's always pretty guarded with all her trust issues.

I also think you're right about Logan seeming a bit on the depressed side. He definitely wasn't his usual glib self. It seems that losing his girlfriend, mother, and father, and then witnessing the suicide of a close friend and not being able to stop it have have all taken an emotional toll on him. Whoda thunk it?

But at least Veronica can understand it, and their shared pain is one of the things that brought them together in the first place. At this point though, Logan may have a hard time moving past a lot of this and I could see that becoming difficult for Veronica, who is more about moving on from the pain. I hope Logan doesn't spiral into alcoholic self-destruction (like Dick), and being with Veronica is probably keeping him from doing that, but it could happen more gradually.

And Dick moving in with him -- while a touching scene -- can't be good for the future of Logan and Veronica. So that's yet another obstacle for them.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

One more thing I noticed...when Veronica gave Piz the clothes that a friend of hers no longer needs I think it was Duncan's clothes from Logan's reaction,"Nice shirt".


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## mrpantstm (Jan 25, 2005)

Magnolia88 said:


> Both Duncan and Logan have declared their love for her in the past, but she never returned the sentiment. And she knows that she and Logan have a million issues, both separately and together.


I thought Veronica said she loved Duncan when she was helping him escape to Mexico with the baby last season? She definitly is guarded when it comes to her relationships. Logan on the other hand is in full to their relationship. I think he has been since season one. Beneath being a jackass at times, I think he just wants to take care of her.

Whether Veronica thinks she needs taking care of...



Magnolia88 said:


> At this point though, Logan may have a hard time moving past a lot of this and I could see that becoming difficult for Veronica, who is more about moving on from the pain. I hope Logan doesn't spiral into alcoholic self-destruction (like Dick), and being with Veronica is probably keeping him from doing that, but it could happen more gradually.


Definitly agreed, of any of the issues, that would be at the top of my list. I think Veronica is the one thing keeping him above water. Let's hope it doesn't crash and burn their relationship like the murder charge did last season (where Logan had a very us v. them mentality about Neptune).



mwhip said:


> One more thing I noticed...when Veronica gave Piz the clothes that a friend of hers no longer needs I think it was Duncan's clothes from Logan's reaction,"Nice shirt".


Or it was Logan's shirt. Seems more likely Veronica would have access to Logan's clothes than Duncans. Plus, as a guy I'm more likely to recognize my own clothes than my best friends.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

mwhip said:


> What was up with the Keith storyline? Perhaps I am not remembering S2 very well. Was that Liam in the house at the end? The video was small and dark hard to make out. What was Kendall's role in everything? She was fleecing Dick and Beaver's dad for money? Did we learn what was in the briefcase?


The guy that Keith picked up was evidently Cormick Fitzpatrick.

Remember from "Nevermind the Buttocks," Kendall Casablancas was revealed to be Priscilla Banks, and she and Cormick ran frauds together. She stole the identity of the real (dead) Kendall Casablancas to hide the fact that she spent some time in prison, when she took the rap for Cormick to save him from the three strikes law.

The briefcase - well, I'm guessing that was the proceeds from Cassady's land trust scheme, which made out BIG time. Remember that the scene immediately before the briefcase scene in "Not Pictured" was Kendall finding out just how well their land trust did. My guess is that Kendall ran from the lawyer's office, cashed out the business (literally, cash), paid Keith to pick up Cormick, and get them and the remaining money well out of town.

Kendall never made anything from Dick Sr., except for the little bit of money she made from petty larceny from the Casablancas estate.

Late edit: yeah, I realize that "Priscilla Banks" stole the identity of "Kendall Chifflett," not "Kendall Casablancas." I realized that as soon as I posted.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

mrpantstm said:


> Or it was Logan's shirt. Seems more likely Veronica would have access to Logan's clothes than Duncans. Plus, as a guy I'm more likely to recognize my own clothes than my best friends.


Oh, that was DEFINITELY one of Duncan's shirts. Logan wouldn't be caught dead in a golf shirt like that.


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## mrpantstm (Jan 25, 2005)

LoadStar said:


> The guy that Keith picked up was evidently Cormick Fitzpatrick.
> 
> Remember from "Nevermind the Buttocks," Kendall Casablancas was revealed to be Priscilla Banks, and she and Cormick ran frauds together. She stole the identity of the real (dead) Kendall Casablancas to hide the fact that she spent some time in prison, when she took the rap for Cormick to save him from the three strikes law.
> 
> ...


That's what I understood.



Spoiler



What did the other private investigator have to do with it and why did Cormick kill Kendall?



//spoilered since I don't want to kill the episode too much.


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## mrpantstm (Jan 25, 2005)

LoadStar said:


> Oh, that was DEFINITELY one of Duncan's shirts. Logan wouldn't be caught dead in a golf shirt like that.


Okay sure.

But why would Veronica have Duncan's clothes?

Well I guess maybe some of Duncan's clothes are probably still at Logan's apartment and she could have gotten them there.

Eh.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

mrpantstm said:


> Okay sure.
> 
> But why would Veronica have Duncan's clothes?
> 
> ...


That was how I got to my guess. It was after Logan gave her a key to his room so I figured she pulled them out of Duncan's closet.


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

mrpantstm said:


> But why would Veronica have Duncan's clothes?


Remember that Veronica helped Duncan hide out in the apartment next door to Chez Mars before he ran off to Mexico. He probably left behind some clothes and personal effects in that apartment when he fled and she went in there and cleaned everything out before the building super could find them.

When Veronica gave the bag of clothes to Piz, she said something like, "these belonged to a friend of mine but he doesn't need them anymore" with a rueful look on her face. She clearly was talking about Duncan, not Logan.

And argyle=Duncan. Remember when Logan wore Duncan's argyle shirt after his house burned down and Veronica thought it was Duncan lying on the couch? Logan said "chicks dig argyle." Heh. I think it actually might have been the same shirt that Piz was wearing in this episode. (Which would also explain why Logan recognized it immediately as Duncan's and said "nice shirt." He knew that Veronica must have given it to Piz and I doubt he was thrilled by that.) That shirt gets around.



> I thought Veronica said she loved Duncan when she was helping him escape to Mexico with the baby last season?


Nope. After Duncan said, "I love you. I've always loved you," Veronica looked happy to hear it but she definitely did *not* say it back to him. She said, "you better." She's never said it to anyone except Keith. At least as far as we know on the show. (It's entirely possible she said it to Duncan on their first go-around as a couple, but it seems unlikely.)


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Ack! I thought we weren't going to discuss the episode until the "real" episode thread and you guys are going nuts!

 :up:


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## mrpantstm (Jan 25, 2005)

Zevida said:


> Ack! I thought we weren't going to discuss the episode until the "real" episode thread and you guys are going nuts!
> 
> :up:


Couldn't help it.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Zevida said:


> Ack! I thought we weren't going to discuss the episode until the "real" episode thread and you guys are going nuts!
> 
> :up:


Yeah, about that? Let's not wait.  It really doesn't make any sense to wait, really... if you don't want to know, don't come in this thread - it's marked as containing spoilers.

I can understand waiting when it's released early through an "unofficial source," but in this case, The CW is actually releasing this to MSN and others, so I think it's fair game to discuss now.


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

If it helps, I haven't been discussing anything about the Keith/Kendall/Cormac storyline or the MOTW. I need to see it again to be sure I followed everything. 

I wonder how new viewers are going to be able to follow that storyline. It might seem a little out of place to them.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Magnolia88 said:


> If it helps, I haven't been discussing anything about the Keith/Kendall/Cormac storyline or the MOTW. I need to see it again to be sure I followed everything.
> 
> I wonder how new viewers are going to be able to follow that storyline. It might seem a little out of place to them.


Yeah, I was wondering about that. The whole shaving the hair thing was never really re-explained... it sort of expected that you saw the episode from last season.

Heck, did they even really come out and say she was at Hearst College anywhere in the episode? Again, it's assuming that you remember that Veronica visited there, and that Wallace was definitely going there, and that you put two and two together.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Well when they were at the rally the girl with the megaphone talked about the rapist and the head shaving. Also they will probably show a scene in the "previously on" part at the beginning of the show.


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

In case anyone needs a reminder, the S3 premiere of VM is tonight, October 3. 9pm ET. On the new CW! 

You might want to check your TiVo To Do List and make sure it found the right station. For most people, VM will be airing on a different channel than last year.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Ok, on re-watching it, the Keith plotline, particularly the bit with the Vinnie Van Lowe pen makes more sense... I missed the "Please tell me you're not working for Liam" line the first time around. And really, I now get the sense that scene wasn't for the benefit of THIS episode. I think it's setting up next episode.

Wild guess to follow (note: I have no idea what's to come, but I'll spoiler tag it anyway):


Spoiler



I think the Van Lowe pen, with the bug in it, was to set up a way to have him show up and coincidentally end up rescuing Keith.



And as far as if it was Cormack or not, they did mention his name like once in dialogue... you really REALLY had to be paying attention to pick up on that, which apparently I wasn't.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

I also noticed a goof. Obviously this is supposed to be "Hearst College," but it's really filmed on the UC-SD campus, I believe, and reality slipped through... As Logan and Veronica are walking along the campus mall at the beginning of the episode, there's a tent with a banner that reads "Welcome to State" on it. Minor goof, but I watch for this kind of thing.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Wow, I had a completely different reaction to the Veronica-Logan dynamic. When he gave her the key, she did NOT look happy to me. She recovered after a while and put on a happy face, but it seemed like she was acting to me. And when Piz asked her if Logan was her boyfriend, I got the feeling she wasn't sure what the answer was.

I don't see Verogan lasting too long...


LoadStar said:


> I also noticed a goof. Obviously this is supposed to be "Hearst College," but it's really filmed on the UC-SD campus, I believe, and reality slipped through... As Logan and Veronica are walking along the campus mall at the beginning of the episode, there's a tent with a banner that reads "Welcome to State" on it. Minor goof, but I watch for this kind of thing.


UCSD wouldn't say "State." There is a San Diego State University, however.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> UCSD wouldn't say "State." There is a San Diego State University, however.


Quite right, my mistake. Still, Hearst wouldn't have a banner that would say "State" either.


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## mrpantstm (Jan 25, 2005)

My thoughts on the Keith mystery. Wild speculation follows:



Spoiler



Keith was helping reunite Cormac and Kendall because Kendall had helped hold on to a lot of money Cormac had stolen/whatever and screw Liam out of the money. They were going to run off to some beach and live happily ever after.

To me, Liam hired Vinnie to find Cormac (and the money since he probably cares more about that than his brother) and Vinnie tagged Keith to led him to Cormac and Kendall. That Keith fell for the whole 'Oh let me look at your briefcase.' had me rolling my eyes.

What I don't get is why Keith ran in and saw Cormac killing Kendall and than Cormac shooting at Keith. Any ideas? Or do I have that all wrong.



I'm planning on rewatching it in about 30~minutes or so.


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## betativoII (Apr 13, 2002)

Did anyone else notice that the actor who played the professor's assistant at the university is the same actor that played Lucky last season?

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2028579/

That jumped out at me...James Jordan has amazing eyes.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

mrpantstm said:


> What I don't get is why Keith ran in and so Cormac killing Kendall and than Cormac shooting at Keith. Any ideas? Or do I have that all wrong.


I had to un-spoiler tag the last bit, mostly because it isn't a spoiler anyway. 

Keith went out to the car to get the travel papers for the two of them. While out there, he found Vinnie's pen... then immediately thought that someone, particularly Liam, might have followed them. He went for his gun in the glove compartment, and found just the holster, not the gun.

He ran back in the house, knowing that he brought the gun along (he spent time meticulously cleaning it at the beginning, and wouldn't have forgotten it after doing that) yelling "Kendall!" Notice he didn't yell "Kendall! Cormick!" so he knew that Cormick had double-crossed the two of them. I'm sure Keith thought he could get Kendall out before Cormick got to her. He walked in, saw Cormick shoot Kendall, then ran for his life out the door.


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

mwhip said:


> I thought the Saturn comment was one of the best ever of the series.
> 
> Piz -"Veronica Mars drives a Saturn in Neptune?"





mrpantstm said:


> Agreed, great comment.


And don't forget the rest of the scene. Something like...

Veronica -"You better get 'Uranus' to moving because the 'Mercury' is rising."


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

LoadStar said:


> He walked in, saw Cormick shoot Kendall, then ran for his life out the door.


Ran like a little girl, which I liked. Why does every positive character on television have to handle deadly stress in a cool, macho fashion?


----------



## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Veronica annoyed me a bit in this episode. She was way too peppy.

I HATE that the writers got Veronica and Logan back together only to lead to the inevitable break-up mid-season. TV Shows just can't keep relationships going for a long time because it gets stale (see: Friends, The OC) so the "big couple" always breaks up. I'd much rather have seen Veronica and Logan remain wary, sarcastic allies.

Plus, I don't like the Logan that is in love with Veronica. He turns all sappy-eyed and is jealous and gives off the weird-o "I only want to protect you" creep vibe. Who was that moony-eyed Logan at the table who gave Veronica his room key? Not the one I know and love! Logan is a sarcastic, narcisstic, self-hating jackass and although I'd hate to know him, he's a fascinating TV character. Puppy dog/Veronica's ***** Logan isn't half as cool or fun.

/Logan rant

Interesting that Veronica walked in on the rape when she was getting the movie tickets. How creepy is that?

I suprisingly like Wallace in this episode. I like the he has a guy friend now. I've always felt he was a doormat of a character, so I hope he'll do better this season.

Loved the new credits and that Lamb and Mac are regulars. Loved seeing Vinny in the first ep! 

Dick cried! And how pathetic, I got teary-eyed too.

Loved the "Hot dog!" exchange.


----------



## mrpantstm (Jan 25, 2005)

LoadStar said:


> I had to un-spoiler tag the last bit, mostly because it isn't a spoiler anyway.
> 
> Keith went out to the car to get the travel papers for the two of them. While out there, he found Vinnie's pen... then immediately thought that someone, particularly Liam, might have followed them. He went for his gun in the glove compartment, and found just the holster, not the gun.
> 
> He ran back in the house, knowing that he brought the gun along (he spent time meticulously cleaning it at the beginning, and wouldn't have forgotten it after doing that) yelling "Kendall!" Notice he didn't yell "Kendall! Cormick!" so he knew that Cormick had double-crossed the two of them. I'm sure Keith thought he could get Kendall out before Cormick got to her. He walked in, saw Cormick shoot Kendall, then ran for his life out the door.


After rewatching, I came to the same conclusions you did above.

Was the fake back to the house Keith saying 'Oh I forgot the keys but eh the doors open anyway.'?

Rewatching it, I did see more hesitance in Veronica over her relationship with Logan, most of all at the key exchange. She really didn't respond to him and than changed the topic to Dick.


----------



## Swirl_Junkie (Mar 11, 2001)

We didn't actually see Kendall killed did we? It was just implied?


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## mrpantstm (Jan 25, 2005)

Swirl_Junkie said:


> We didn't actually see Kendall killed did we? It was just implied?


Yes it was implied. If you're going the fake out Keith idea, it's plausible although Cormac certainly seemed menacing. Dunno if he'd go through the trouble of faking Kendall's death to Keith if he was just going to kill Keith anyway.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

As far as the opening goes I hate the remix of the song but the graphics aren't half bad. Still a little too "MTV" for this old man.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

So the question about the Cormac/Liam/Kendall mystery: Are Cormac and Liam working together? I.e. did they each hire one of the towns P.I.s knowing that between them they'd be able to find Kendall? Or are they both on a race for the money and Cormac got there first and Liam is sure to be hot on their trail?

Loved the reference to Battlestar Galactica and then the continued use of "frak" later in the episode. Hopefully it catches on.


----------



## ayrton911 (Sep 4, 2000)

mwhip said:


> As far as the opening goes I hate the remix of the song but the graphics aren't half bad. Still a little too "MTV" for this old man.


Oh my. I can't watch the premiere until tomorrow, but I checked the opening right now, and it is terrible! The song is ruined, and I don't care for the graphic much either.

It seems they market this show like it's dumb 13 year olds running around. I didn't start watching until buying the DVDs last spring because all the graphics, DVD sets, etc. always looked silly to me, and they give no feeling for what the show truly is.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

ayrton911 said:


> Oh my. I can't watch the premiere until tomorrow, but I checked the opening right now, and it is terrible! The song is ruined, and I don't care for the graphic much either.
> 
> It seems they market this show like it's dumb 13 year olds running around. I didn't start watching until buying the DVDs last spring because all the graphics, DVD sets, etc. always looked silly to me, and they give no feeling for what the show truly is.


Actually, both the title graphics and the new remix of the theme song much, MUCH better portray the actual feel of the show, if you ask me, and go a long way to helping to draw a more adult audience.

The old theme and title sequence made the show seem like yet another teen-oriented show, which it most certainly is not. This new title sequence really points towards the darker, seedier side of the show.

As I mentioned above, though, I think it'd have been even more effective had they found a song that already had that feel to it and changed to it, rather than trying to shoehorn the existing theme into the new style.


----------



## mmilton80 (Jul 28, 2005)

LoadStar said:


> Actually, both the title graphics and the new remix of the theme song much, MUCH better portray the actual feel of the show, if you ask me, and go a long way to helping to draw a more adult audience.
> 
> The old theme and title sequence made the show seem like yet another teen-oriented show, which it most certainly is not. This new title sequence really points towards the darker, seedier side of the show.
> 
> As I mentioned above, though, I think it'd have been even more effective had they found a song that already had that feel to it and changed to it, rather than trying to shoehorn the existing theme into the new style.


I was a bit thrown by the remixed theme...I really like the old version. But, I understand the change.

Nice new avatar Loadstar!


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

I take it this thread has evolved in to the "Offical" thread?

A couple of comments:

* The new opening was quite startling. Not sure if I like it or not.

* Absolutely LOVED the BSG reference and repeated use of Frak! 

* I am not convinced about the Logan/Veronica relationship. I agree with others that Veronica is just not 100% committed to the relationship. Logan, OTOH, seems to want to be committed, but I think he has too many issues that he doesn't want to get too close. (It seems that everyone around him ends up dead!)

* The Keith/Kendall/Cormak(?) story line really didn't make any sense. Why would Keith even bother helping Kendall (I know, money. But that is not in Keith's character).

* Mars drives a Saturn in Neptune! :up: :up: 

* Looking forward to the obvious relationship to develop between Veronica and the TA (but what kind of relationship?) And where does the Professor fit in?

* Where was Lamb? He was added to the credits, but he couldn't make it to the episode?

* Finally, since Weevil is in the credits, I am looking forward to his return (but where does he fit in?)


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## mrpantstm (Jan 25, 2005)

RBlount said:


> * I am not convinced about the Logan/Veronica relationship. I agree with others that Veronica is just not 100% committed to the relationship. Logan, OTOH, seems to want to be committed, but I think he has too many issues that he doesn't want to get too close. (It seems that everyone around him ends up dead!)


I thought that Logan may be clinging onto Veronica too tightly because everyone else in his life is dead.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I didn't follow the liam plotline too well. I think the guess about both of them trying to get the money kind of makes sense, but it really is kind of confusing. It seems like keith is going to be saved by the bumbling PI soon?

I'm getting a vibe from the crimonology class that it is going to play a major role in whatever major mystery happens this season.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

RBlount said:


> * Absolutely LOVED the BSG reference and repeated use of Frak!


I found it interesting that they seem to like B5, from the Sci-Fi Network, but slammed Top Model, which airs on CW!

I guess the CW Network Overlords either aren't paying attention, or are less evil than hitherto suspected.


----------



## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

RBlount said:


> * Where was Lamb? He was added to the credits, but he couldn't make it to the episode?


Well with the rapist being mystery #1 this season Lamb will be a big player.


----------



## harrisgtz (Nov 2, 2004)

I was watching the VM reruns before the new season started. I guess they just ended to start the new season so I never found out who caused the bus crash. ???


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## 7thton (Mar 3, 2005)

You mean BSG, right? 



Rob Helmerichs said:


> I found it interesting that they seem to like B5, from the Sci-Fi Network, but slammed Top Model, which airs on CW!
> 
> I guess the CW Network Overlords either aren't paying attention, or are less evil than hitherto suspected.


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

It sure didn't sound like a rape was in progress when Veronica went in for the tickets. Did they give any hint at how Dick knows Parker? I think maybe it was Dick in the room with Parker.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

7thton said:


> You mean BSG, right?


Don't be silly.

I meant BG.

Duh!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cherry ghost said:


> It sure didn't sound like a rape was in progress when Veronica went in for the tickets. Did they give any hint at how Dick knows Parker? I think maybe it was Dick in the room with Parker.


IIRC, the rape victims are unconscious at the time..?


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## mrpantstm (Jan 25, 2005)

cherry ghost said:


> It sure didn't sound like a rape was in progress when Veronica went in for the tickets. Did they give any hint at how Dick knows Parker? I think maybe it was Dick in the room with Parker.


Well she could have been drugged. I agree with you, it didn't sound like Parker was an unwilling participant but than we don't really know how much Veronica saw, if anything.

I think Dick "knows" Parker because she's *ahem* easy.


----------



## hapdrastic (Mar 31, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> UCSD wouldn't say "State." There is a San Diego State University, however.


Yeah, that's SDSU. I spent most of the episode going "oh! I used to eat lunch there! I know where that is! oh! my friend fell down that hill once!", etc. Incidentally, I've been going there off-and-on since 1996 (yes, I graduated, I'm just going back for another degree now), and I have never, ever, seen topless girls sunbathing, and I know exactly where that lawn is.



mwhip said:


> Well with the rapist being mystery #1 this season Lamb will be a big player.


My fiancee and Michael Muhney talk through email occassionally, and he called us just prior to VM starting last night to say "hi" to the people at our launch party. He told us:



Spoiler



That he'd be back on the show, starting in the second episode. He also joked that he's going to "lose all his fans" because his character's going back to being bad, sounds like he'll be being kind of a jerk about the whole rape thing.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Heh - you should get Michael to do a drop-by here. That would rock.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

cherry ghost said:


> It sure didn't sound like a rape was in progress when Veronica went in for the tickets. Did they give any hint at how Dick knows Parker? I think maybe it was Dick in the room with Parker.


I don't think it was that individual that raped and shaved.

Mac said earlier that she had a number of guys at any given time in the room.

It very well could have been 2 or 3 guys after the one that Veronica walked in on.

I also think it was Dick in the room when Veronica walked in though, but I doubt he is the rapist, to obvious this early in the storyline.

I'm also a bit confused as to the Keith/Kendall/Cormac/Liam thing.
He had said he was going after a bail jumper, maybe the reuniting thing was all a ruse to capture one or the other? Maybe bring Liam out of hiding?

Obviously, it backfired,
or did it?
We never saw him actually shooting Kendall.

phox


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## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

ARGH!!! I forgot to update my season pass to record it on the CW station instead of the old UPN station.

Bad TiVo! Bad, bad TiVo! You're supposed to be smarter than me on this stuff ...


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## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

Well, the ratings are in, and they aren't great.

Last for the night, with a 2.1 household rating and a 3 share. Among adults 18-49, it was strangely more grim, with a 1.4 rating, still last.

Worst of all, it lost 30% of Gilmore Girls audience.

I love-love-love this show, but I am concerned that it won't even last this season, let along get picked up for a fourth. 

Please, if you're watching, tell a friend? Make them watch. Tie them to the couch, prop their eyelids open and guard them with a weapon if you have to.

Do it for the children!


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Just saw the ratings for VM...it was dead last behind GG and it only held 63% of the GG lead in.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Well before I knee jerk too much I would like to see how it did compared to when it was on UPN. Also would like to compare it to other CW shows.


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

Being a VM fan is not for the faint of heart. 

I really hope that word of mouth helps VM pick up some new viewers over the next three weeks, because after that, _House_ returns to the 9pm slot and there won't be many new viewers left to get.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

But 32% thought it was patriotic, so we are good to go.


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## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

It's roughly the same as last year--but it needs to be up more. Rob Thomas said that they need to do "Buffy Numbers" which equates to ratings in the low threes...so, 2.1 not going to get them there.

Hollywood reporter claims that they had a 2.3 million "viewers" last season, which equates to a 2.086 rating for this season, using 2006 demographic data from Nielsen.

So, really, pretty flat from last season.


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## mrpantstm (Jan 25, 2005)

That's dissappointing. Hopefully there was some new viewers from GG's that will stay on next week or help spread the word.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Does The CW really have anything that could replace VM? 

I can only get CW vis Dish Network Superstation, and then it's in SD.
So I'm going to BitTorrent the HD (widescreen) version. Works great.
This show looks much better in widescreen.

And, as to the opening graphics and music, who cares? It's the show content that matters.


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Honestly, watching the bits and pieces of GG that I had on while waiting for VM, I'm not seeing any sort of connection between the two audiences. GG and 7th Heaven, maybe, not GG and VM. VM should actually pair with Supernatural, if you ask me.


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## mrpantstm (Jan 25, 2005)

LoadStar said:


> I'm not seeing any sort of connection between the two audiences.


In tv executive land if both shows have a female protagonist then they are the same.


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

LoadStar said:


> He walked in, saw Cormick shoot Kendall, then ran for his life out the door.


He certainly saw Cormick shoot a gun. Did he shoot Kendall? I'm not sure; we didn't hear her scream or beg for her life, nor do we hear any yelps of pain (but then, it seems that nobody on TV ever says "ow!" when they get shot).

What's up with the whole playing nice with Kendall bit, anyway? I thought she was supposed to be involved with all sorts of sinister things.


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

mwhip said:


> Well before I knee jerk too much I would like to see how it did compared to when it was on UPN. Also would like to compare it to other CW shows.


In season-premiere news, The CWs Veronica Mars limped out of the gate with a disappointing (and, of course, last-place) 2.4/ 4 in the overnights, 3.27 million viewers and a 1.4/ 4 among adults 18-49 at 9 p.m. Although comparatively that was a vast improvement over year-ago failed occupant Sex, Love & Secrets (Overnights: 1.5/ 2; Viewers: 1.40 million; A18-49: 0.6/ 1 on Oct. 4, 2005), keep in mind three things:

1. Retention for Veronica Mars from lead-in Gilmore Girls (Overnights: #5, 4.0/ 6; Viewers: #5, 4.71 million; A18-49: #5, 2.0/ 6 at 8 p.m.) was just 60 percent in the overnights, 69 percent in total viewers and 70 percent among adults 18-49.

2. Sex, Love & Secrets on the year-ago evening led out of a repeat of Americas Next Top Model.

3. Veronica Mars opened season two on Wednesday, Sept. 28, 2005 (out of Americas Next Top Model) with a similarly disappointing 2.5/ 4 in the overnights, 3.29 million viewers and a 1.3/ 3 among adults 18-49.

To the countless Veronica Mars groupies reading this column: the ratings are not terrible. But they could, and should, be much better. .

http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/newslet...sider/index.jsp

The CW. They took the best of the WB and the best of UPN and put them together . . . and snagged slightly fewer viewers than either defunct network had last year in the same week. Dissecting CW's week: "Gilmore Girls" opened down 28 percent compared with last year's debut, "7th Heaven" was down 23 percent, "Smallville" was down 16 percent, "Supernatural" was down 31 percent and CW's Sunday didn't open. Bright spots? "America's Next Top Model" . . . and "Smackdown!"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...0301346_pf.html


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## 7thton (Mar 3, 2005)

Ouch.



cherry ghost said:


> In season-premiere news, The CWs Veronica Mars limped out of the gate with a disappointing (and, of course, last-place) 2.4/ 4 in the overnights, 3.27 million viewers and a 1.4/ 4 among adults 18-49 at 9 p.m. Although comparatively that was a vast improvement over year-ago failed occupant Sex, Love & Secrets (Overnights: 1.5/ 2; Viewers: 1.40 million; A18-49: 0.6/ 1 on Oct. 4, 2005), keep in mind three things:
> 
> 1. Retention for Veronica Mars from lead-in Gilmore Girls (Overnights: #5, 4.0/ 6; Viewers: #5, 4.71 million; A18-49: #5, 2.0/ 6 at 8 p.m.) was just 60 percent in the overnights, 69 percent in total viewers and 70 percent among adults 18-49.
> 
> ...


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

mrpantstm said:


> In tv executive land if both shows have a female protagonist then they are the same.


Not just that, but they are _smart_ girls who are _sassy_ and _quippy_ and full of _attitude_! It's all about GIRL POWER! Woo hoo!!

And if you didn't get the GIRL POWER connection, those "aerie girl" ads were supposed to drive that point home. I think.



I do think there is a lot of crossover fan-ship between VM and GG and that GG is probably the best lead-in for VM possible on the CW. But they certainly are very different shows and GG has to skew much more to females in general because it's all about relationships and is very light and comedic in tone. VM is a dark edgy detective show that serves up some relationships on the side and is sarcastic and cynical in tone. (Although the sarcasm and cynicism was toned down considerably in this first episode to emphasize the "quippiness" to appeal to GG viewers. Based on the ratings, it doesn't appear to have worked all that well, so let's hope they bring the sarcasm and edginess back next week!)

_Supernatural_ does have more of the darkness and cynicism in common with VM, but I don't think it's as good a match as GG. Plus, _Smallville_ does seem like the best possible lead-in for SN, so I can understand why the CW did that.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

I think the silver lining for me is always knowing the fact that Rob Thomas was first writing this as a book and if it gets cancelled maybe he would go back to that idea.


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## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

As expected, The CW spins the numbers a little...differently. 



> With "Gilmore Girls" as its lead-in, "Veronica Mars" delivered its third highest-rated telecast ever among adults 18-34 (tie), its second best telecast ever in adults 18-49 (tie), and its fourth most watched episode ever (3.3 million) since its debut two years ago.


http://www.thefutoncritic.com/news.aspx?id=20061004cw01


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

Everything the CW says about the VM ratings is true. It's a "spin" sure, but the ratings would have been great . . . if VM were still on UPN. 

The only problem is that the expecations were much higher for VM now that it's on the CW and following GG. All the excuses about being on UPN aren't available anymore. VM didn't hold onto the GG audience as much as the CW would have liked and that's a disappointment. 

Otoh, the retention rate of 75% in the 18-49 demo and 83% in the 18-34 demo is still pretty good. (The Mediaweek numbers were preliminary.)


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

The good news is, CW is putting a positive light on it. Which suggests that they're not looking for an excuse to pull the plug.


----------



## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

So is there any kind of clue in the name of Piz's hometown?

I live right next to there and you would lock you car if it was parked in a closed garage!


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The good news is, CW is putting a positive light on it. Which suggests that they're not looking for an excuse to pull the plug.


Unlike FOX's spin on Thursday nights, which as I recall from two weeks ago were:

"FOX was not a factor on Thursday night."

(Thursday night is "Happy Hour" and "Till Death" on FOX.)


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

I'm sure the bigwigs at the CW realize that there are many folks who are still confused about the WB/UPN/CW/FOX split/merger, and don't know where to watch Veronica.
Also factor in those folk that can't due to many markets putting the CW on a subchannel of another Digital/HD channel.

Throw in Dish/DirecTV/Cable not carrying the CW, at least for now in many markets, and those folks that relied on satellite/cable to see the old UPN or CW stations prior to the split/join.

I'd say the numbers are pretty good, considering.

I see the numbers improving gradually as people find out how to watch it.


phox


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

phox_mulder said:


> I see the numbers improving gradually as people find out how to watch it.


Let's hope you're right!

I really had high hopes that the S3 premiere would get a lot more viewers than ever before, considering how well the S2 DVD was selling on Amazon and other places, and how much Kristen Bell's profile had been rising in recent months. *sigh*

Anyway, I thought the actress playing Parker did a great job in the final scene. Anyone have any thoughts on where they are going with the rapist mystery? What was Dick doing at her door? My guess is that he's an early red herring but I can't imagine he will be a serious suspect.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

phox_mulder said:


> I also think it was Dick in the room when Veronica walked in though, but I doubt he is the rapist.


Gosh, I thought it was really obvious that Veronica walked in on the rape when she grabbed the movies tickets and I also never thought for a second that the rapist could possibly be Dick. But I guess this forum is showing that it wasn't so obvious because people are disagreeing with me. Ack! Now you all are forcing me to doubt myself.


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

Oooh. The opening scene and "Director's Cut" sneak peek are available at cwtv.com. Scroll down.

I know we can't discuss them without spoiler tags but they are interesting.


----------



## ayrton911 (Sep 4, 2000)

I thought the ratings were a bit of a dissapointment. About the only premiere VM beat was that Runaway, which is doing miserably. 

However, maybe the ratings can improve during the season as new viewers are introduced to it.


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## Jesda (Feb 12, 2005)

I miss the Lebaron. It was like a character on the show.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Well, if we have already met the rapist, then we have very few choices.

It can't be Dick, Piz, Logan or Wallace---all are freshmen and this rapist was active last year.

It's unlikely that it's someone from town (like the cop who helped Veronica)---they'd be a little obvious on campus.

So who does that leave? The robbery ringleader was in jail (presumably) when Parker got attacked...and I believe we only met three other guys this episode:


The RA (a possibility)
The professor (I think that he'd be a little obvious on campus, too)
The teaching assistant
The TA is clearly the obvious suspect. He's also has been presented as a bit misogynistic...


----------



## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

Amnesia said:


> Well, if we have already met the rapist, then we have very few choices.
> 
> It can't be Dick, Piz, Logan or Wallace---all are freshmen and this rapist was active last year.
> 
> It's unlikely that it's someone from town (like the cop who helped Veronica)---they'd be a little obvious on campus.


Don't forget that it could be one of the frat boys Veronica was investigating last season. (They would have to be introduced to new viewers, but that is still a possibility).

Another option is that Parker's rapist was a copycat. (Or even that she wasn't raped, just had her head shaved after she fell asleep. Possibly as really twisted revenge for something).


----------



## msgtgumby (Aug 9, 2005)

Kinda off the new season topic but...did everyone else's CW network stop airing episodes 2-3 times a week or is my local one just sucking?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

JimSpence said:


> Does The CW really have anything that could replace VM?


I heard Kristen Bell in an interview talk about how on UPN they were never really worried because UPN never had anything decent in development, but that CW has quite a few midseason shows waiting in the wings so they are really going to be conscious of the ratings numbers in the first 1/3 of the season.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

But, are those midseason shows any good? I hope The CW just gives people a chance to find VM.


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

I know there is a show by Kevin Williamson that is scheduled to be a midseason replacement (Hidden Palms? something like that) but I don't know about anything else they have lined up. I think Aquaman is dead.


----------



## crowfan (Dec 27, 2003)

OK, I may be out-dorking everyone, but I think the geeky guy made another reference besides "frak"/BSG. I have to go back and re-watch that scene, but I believe he made a reference to drinking "oosqui." That's an Aiel liquor from Robert Jordan's "The Wheel of Time" series. 

/ashamed to know that


----------



## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

He said oolong.


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## crowfan (Dec 27, 2003)

Thank God.


----------



## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

Magnolia88 said:


> I know there is a show by Kevin Williamson that is scheduled to be a midseason replacement (Hidden Palms? something like that) but I don't know about anything else they have lined up. I think Aquaman is dead.


New shows scheduled for midseason include the above mentioned "Hidden Palms", plus something called "Search for the Next Pussycat Doll". Also, there are two returning series, "Reba" and "Beauty and the Geek" that they have to make room for at some point.

As far as stuff in development, there is one show that's been ordered to pilot for next fall, "Aliens in America", plus four more shows that have pilots shot, and were considered for this past fall, and didn't make it: "Aquaman", "Flirt", "He Said, She Said" and "Split Decision". As far as I know, none of these shot anything beyond the pilot.

So, it's not exactly a ...fertile landscape, but there are things that could fill an hour.


----------



## Royster (May 24, 2002)

It looks like VM has the month of October to find its audience. House is moving to 9pm Tuesday on 10/31 after baseball is over.


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## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

That's actually not awful. I think that there is a lot less overlap between the House audience and the Veronica audience, than there would be if, for example, you put American Idol in that slot. That, I would be freaked out about. That House is popular concerns me less, because the demos are not the same.


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Lori said:


> New shows scheduled for midseason include the above mentioned "Hidden Palms", plus something called "Search for the Next Pussycat Doll". Also, there are two returning series, "Reba" and "Beauty and the Geek" that they have to make room for at some point.


Beauty and the Geek fills the America's Next Top Model slot between their runs.


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

Lori said:


> Also, there are two returning series, "Reba" and "Beauty and the Geek" that they have to make room for at some point.


Isn't _Reba_ a half-hour show? And I might be remembering this wrong, but I think _Beauty and the Geek_ is going to be sharing the same slot with ANTM between the "cycles" or whatever they call them. I don't know how many episodes of ANTM constitute a cycle but it's nowhere near a full season.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

The upside to a 2.4 rating? That actually places it among CW's higher rated shows. Consider "Everybody Hates Chris," which was UPN's darling and critically acclaimed show... it netted a 1.6 rating and a 3 share on Sunday.

I really do think CW needs to realize that they're, again, a startup network, and have inherited NONE of either WB's or UPN's heritage ratings, despite inheriting the best of the programming from both. People again are going to have to discover what this new CW thing is and where to find it. Once they do, ratings will go up.


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

Maybe my local CW channel would stop over-saturating the color in the signal they send to D* ???


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

5thcrewman said:


> Maybe my local CW channel would stop over-saturating the color in the signal they send to D* ???


The OTA HD feed looks just fine.


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

Lori said:


> That House is popular concerns me less, because the demos are not the same.


It would seem that way, but unfortunately, though, _House_ has fantastic ratings in EVERY demo. It does very well across the board, even with the teenage demo.

So I can't imagine VM improving much after _House_ comes back. The only hope is that it picks up some new viewers over the next three weeks.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Move VM back to follow ANTM? It worked while it was on UPN...

Edit: actually, have VM lead out ANTM. The CW plans to have a Sunday night re-airing of ANTM starting on the 15th, so even if ANTM drops in the ratings against Grey's Anatomy, it still will get decent ratings overall for the week.


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

LoadStar said:


> Move VM back to follow ANTM? It worked while it was on UPN...


Actually, I think VM's retention was much better following GG than it ever was following ANTM. ANTM gets more viewers than GG, but VM's retention was never all that high after ANTM. IIRC.

Plus, moving it to Wed after ANTM would put it back in competition with _Lost_, and I think more VM viewers probably watch _Lost_ than watch _House_.

So there really is no perfect solution. VM is going to get competition from some huge show on another network on any night of the week. I personally would have chosen Monday as the best night, but that was before _Heroes_ came out strong. And now the CW has put the comedy block back on Monday.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

5thcrewman said:


> Maybe my local CW channel would stop over-saturating the color in the signal they send to D* ???


What's it look like when they do that?


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

5thcrewman said:


> Maybe my local CW channel would stop over-saturating the color in the signal they send to D* ???


How does _CSI: Miami_ look?


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## TiVo Bum (Nov 6, 2004)

Sad to say, but I don't see how this show is going to pick up "new" viewers. My wife and I were latecomers to VM and rented the first season's DVDs based on the high praises here on the forum. Rewatched season 2 as soon as it came out on DVD and we still had trouble following what was going on in the season 3 opener. Can't see how a new viewer wouldn't have major problems following a lot of the storylines in this show. It would be like picking up a book and starting in the middle.

We absolutely love VM and would hate to see it go but if they're relying on a bunch of new viewers to magically jump on the bandwagon then it ain't lookin' good.


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## lambertman (Dec 21, 2002)

TiVo Bum said:


> Can't see how a new viewer wouldn't have major problems following a lot of the storylines in this show. It would be like picking up a book and starting in the middle.


Fair point. I just got into the show for the first time after last night's ep, but I have seen about four or five eps in the past - fortunately, one of them being the ep that set up the head-shaving storyline. And I've watched before just to see Charisma, which means I knew who Kendall was - but it really wasn't explained well, at all. (As for the guy Keith was taking to see her, my VM-junkie friend didn't know him either so I felt OK there.)

I assumed I should know more about the blond guy (and I've done the research since then), but not knowing didn't detract from my ability to follow what's going on right now. But still, if it was suppsoed to be a "second pilot" then it failed.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

RBlount said:


> * The Keith/Kendall/Cormak(?) story line really didn't make any sense. Why would Keith even bother helping Kendall (I know, money. But that is not in Keith's character).


If a woman showed up with a briefcase full of 8 million dollars and said "If my mob boss boyfriend finds me with this, he'll kill me" you're saying it's out of character for Keith to help her?


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## Rosenkavalier (Nov 9, 2001)

NoThru22 said:


> If a woman showed up with a briefcase full of 8 million dollars and said "If my mob boss boyfriend finds me with this, he'll kill me" you're saying it's out of character for Keith to help her?


Just to bring this thread in sync with the revelations from the second episode, we now know 


Spoiler



that it wasn't money in that briefcase.



_Edit:_ Based on comments below, I've gone back and 'spoilerized' my comment. However, I'm not entirely sure it was a true spoiler, but I'll leave it at that.


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## Royster (May 24, 2002)

LoadStar said:


> I really do think CW needs to realize that they're, again, a startup network, and have inherited NONE of either WB's or UPN's heritage ratings, despite inheriting the best of the programming from both. People again are going to have to discover what this new CW thing is and where to find it. Once they do, ratings will go up.


The fan podcast, Neptune Pirate Radio , discussed the ratings in this podcast on the first episode. The CW knows that their audience needs to find them and is mostly concerned with retention rates instead of ratings. They are also mostly concerned with the 18-34 demgraphic. Apparently, the first VM episode did better than One Tree Hill in retatining the audience from the lead-in show (ANTM in the case of OTH) in this key demographic.


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## Royster (May 24, 2002)

Rosenkavalier said:


> Just to bring this thread in sync with the revelations from the second episode, ...


Shouldn't that be spoilered? This is an episode thread.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Rosenkavalier said:


> Just to bring this thread in sync with the revelations from the second episode,
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Ditto Royster - spoilers from future episodes should not be included in the "current" episode thread. Someone who is saving up episodes and wants to read about the premiere doesn't want to get spoiled about upcoming eps. You should spoiler tag that.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Zevida said:


> Ditto Royster - spoilers from future episodes should not be included in the "current" episode thread. Someone who is saving up episodes and wants to read about the premiere doesn't want to get spoiled about upcoming eps. You should spoiler tag that.


You may want to edit the spoiler part from your quote like Royster did.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

cherry ghost said:


> You may want to edit the spoiler part from your quote like Royster did.


Good catch! Done and done. I don't know what I was thinking!


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## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

Ancient bump alert. 


I did not like the new opening. Came here to see what y'all had thought - seems mixed. 
I can see what you mean about it being less teeny... I do still think of it as a teeny kinda show, though. 

Will it grow on me? 

I've really enjoyed the previous seasons. Is there one more after this? :-(


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

SoBelle0 said:


> Will it grow on me?
> 
> I've really enjoyed the previous seasons. Is there one more after this? :-(


Will it grow on you? Probably not. Is there another season after the third? Definitely not.

Is there a movie coming out? You bet!


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Incidentally, I thought about Magnolia88 (the originator of this thread) during the Kickstarter and our thread here about it. She was (is) an ardent VM fan and a great contributor to the threads here. Too bad she's no longer active on TCF.


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## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

cmontyburns said:


> Will it grow on you? Probably not. Is there another season after the third? Definitely not.
> 
> Is there a movie coming out? You bet!


I thought that's what I remembered. 

Yeah - no go on the opener.

I am, however, kind of liking lovey-dove Logan. Except for the sadness... Which is certainly to be expected. May have to bump others... Def dark story here.

Where is Miss Magnolia?!


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## StacieH (Jan 2, 2009)

SoBelle0 said:


> I thought that's what I remembered.
> 
> Yeah - no go on the opener.
> 
> ...


Not a big fan of the Season 3 opener. Not a bog fan of Season 3, period, actually. But I'm watching it. Can't wait for the movie!


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