# TiVo Premiere is the worst piece of CRAP I have ever seen.



## Phasers (May 29, 2008)

To copy my post from the 'bugs' thread:



> Mine is completely unusable (XL). I plugged it in 3 hours ago and after literally 7 or 8 reboots I was finally able to complete guided setup.
> 
> It downloaded a software update took another 30 min to install it, then rebooted (SLOOOOOW btw).
> 
> ...


So total, I have had over 15 reboots, can't use the damn thing. And to think I just shelled out *over $800* to upgrade my series 3 and add lifetime.

I'm so friggin pissed right now


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Some small percentage of all DVRs -- TiVoHD, Series3, Premiere, Moxi, etc -- are defective or damaged in distribution. Sounds like you got a dud.


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## CubsWin (Mar 20, 2010)

I'm still waiting for a proper pairing of my cable card, so I haven't been able to use my TiVo much yet, but I agree with much of your thread... I haven't had any reboot issues, but everything is *very* slow. This is my first TiVo box, so I don't know what is normal to expect, but close to 10 minutes every time it boots up just seems ridiculous. What exactly is it doing??? So far this feels like one of most sluggish devices that I have ever used.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

You shouldn't need to reboot the TiVo on a regular basis. Reboots should only occur during software reboots and when enabling external storage.

I have timed my reboots at six minutes. TiVo checks all of its code to make sure it is unmodified and that is responsible for the bulk of the bootup time.

As far as performance, all TiVos are slower for the first 48 hours or so while the initial guide databases are created and indexed in the background. Search results and browse TV will not show complete results until that is done.


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## Dreamin (Sep 14, 2006)

Phasers said:


> I'm so friggin pissed right now


No... seriously... what's the real problem? No way you can be 'so friggin pissed' over not being able to record 'Dancing with the Stars' or 'Oprah' tonight...

You lost your job today?
One of your kids was in a serious car accident?
You got diagnosed with cancer?

No way you can be so upset over what is obviously a hardware problem with your Tivo... which you can easily return and get a new one...


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

My first TiVo HD couldn't make it through guided setup; it kept rebooting at different points. I realized something must be wrong with it so I contacted amazon, returned it and got a new one. No problems after that.


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## puckettcg (Feb 10, 2006)

Definitely sounds like you got a dud out of the box. After seeing the complaints on the board, I was starting to get seriously worried about the two boxes that were sitting in my dining room waiting for me to hook them up. I hooked up the first one last night and have really not had any problems. Its on antenna. The only reboots have been the two during setup and they told me it was going to reboot. Of course, I still haven't called Verizon to get cable cards, but so far so good.


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## Jimbo713 (Dec 25, 2001)

I set mine up last night. It took a total of about two-hours from start to finish - and I love it. I've been in the TiVo camp since 1999 and this one is a winner. Sluggish at first last night - but this morning it flew as I set season passes, searched, and all the usual functions you'd use with a TiVo. It's only going to get better with furture updates, but for now - it's really nice.


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## LoneWolf15 (Mar 20, 2010)

Ahh, the trials and tribulations of the "instant gratification" personality type.

Doesn't work to troubleshoot with the company upon purchase if things don't work --nay, nay, the device = crap, and nobody can tell them otherwise.
Doesn't go through a logical procedure of tech support, instead, goes off half-cocked like a pistol with a hair-trigger.
Doesn't ask questions in the forum like "Hey, is this you guys' experience?" to compare. No, the new device must suck, and their lives are ruined.

If I were the OP, sure, I'd be disappointed. But I'd also be calm, get a grip, and go through the normal steps of finding out what the issue might be, or whether or not I'm the only user to have those issues.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

LoneWolf15 said:


> Ahh, the trials and tribulations of the "instant gratification" personality type.
> 
> Doesn't work to troubleshoot with the company upon purchase if things don't work --nay, nay, the device = crap, and nobody can tell them otherwise.
> Doesn't go through a logical procedure of tech support, instead, goes off half-cocked like a pistol with a hair-trigger.
> ...


Yes sir. It's completely unreasonable for a customer to shell out hundreds of dollars for something, plug it in, and expect it to work.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Return it before the 30 days are over.


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## LoneWolf15 (Mar 20, 2010)

RoyK said:


> Yes sir. It's completely unreasonable for a customer to shell out hundreds of dollars for something, plug it in, and expect it to work.


Actually, it's completely unreasonable for a customer to buy something, plug it in, and if it doesn't work instantly, call the product crap rather than going through the logical steps of

1)Calling customer service/tech support
2) (Since the customer in this case understands and is a member of Internet forums) Checking with your pals on the Internet forum to see if there might be something you did incorrectly when setting up, or to see if others are having the same experience
3)Taking a deep breath, and acknowledging that EVERY product sold to man has at least a 1% defect rate, which sucks, but doesn't make the product crap. Heck, I guarantee you that a percentage of them get drop-kicked in shipping; would that be Tivo's fault?

I've called products crap before --but I haven't done so without checking into a few more variables than "It didn't work for me, therefore it must be CRAP". Perhaps it's because I worked in retail in a former life, but I think the OP's conclusion is decidedly premature, as well as a poor way of getting help.

Tivo also has a customer support line for a reason --they know that like everyone else, they won't have a 100% perfection rate. The sign of a good product and company is more than what happens when you open the box --it's what happens when you contact Tivo, and it doesn't look like the OP even tried to do this before making a broad, blanket statement.

P.S. RoyK, I understand your situation (having read about it), which I believe is different than the OP's, and you have a right to be disappointed. However, you've also gone through the steps required; it doesn't appear like this is what happened here, and I don't think it compares.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

LoneWolf15 said:


> ... However, you've also gone through the steps required; it doesn't appear like this is what happened here, and I don't think it compares.


I had the exact same experience with not one but two TiVoHDs. The first wouldn't boot. The second crashed on the first day and wouldn't boot after that. I know exactly how the OP feels and he's justified in feeling that way.

To the OP - send it back to where ever you got it.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

surprise, sometimes tech churns out a lemon. Just contact Tivo and have them send you a new one. Don't call it a piece of crap just because you got a bad one - it's obviously not supposed to be like that.


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## 20TIL6 (Sep 7, 2006)

CubsWin said:


> I'm still waiting for a proper pairing of my cable card, so I haven't been able to use my TiVo much yet, but I agree with much of your thread... I haven't had any reboot issues, but everything is *very* slow. This is my first TiVo box, so I don't know what is normal to expect, but close to 10 minutes every time it boots up just seems ridiculous. What exactly is it doing??? So far this feels like one of most sluggish devices that I have ever used.


I was having issues with pairing and it was solved with something called a "Staged Hit". I have no idea what that is, but it worked for three different cablecards here. This is what the Comcast CSR suggested, and it worked.

Insert the cablecard. Let it sit. It might need a firmware update. If so, it will start automatically and will run for maybe 15-40 minutes. Just let it sit.

The cablecard also needs to download channel data from your provider. This is the acquiring channels screen. Let it sit.

After that, in my case, Comcast cablecards come programmed to recieve digital locals. So after the acquiring part is done, I can test channels and get those locals through the card. I can't get other digital cable channels, CNN, ESPN, etc. At this point, I also lose some lower analog channels for some reason while the cablecard is inserted. It needs pairing now.

Call Comcast and give the SN and Host ID, and ask for a "Staged Hit".

I did all that for three cablecards and my TiVos are all running like a top.

Yes, they are a bit slow at first boot and for a while afterward. I've owned many TiVos, this is expected. As mentioned by bkdtv, after a day or two, when all the indexing and whatever goes through, they are zippy. Mine are running great. Menus are building much faster and switches between the HD and older interfaces are instant. Although I will be glad to see HD throughout the menus when that rolls out.


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## ciucca (Jun 29, 2004)

LoneWolf15 said:


> Actually, it's completely unreasonable for a customer to buy something, plug it in, and if it doesn't work instantly, call the product crap rather than going through the logical steps of
> 
> 1)Calling customer service/tech support
> 2) (Since the customer in this case understands and is a member of Internet forums) Checking with your pals on the Internet forum to see if there might be something you did incorrectly when setting up, or to see if others are having the same experience
> ...


I didn't want to reply but after reading this post....

I'm sorry sir, but RoyK shelled out $800 plus time and aggravation to setup his new Tivo. He has a right to be pissed.

This post has the typical attitude of Tivo to their customers, something I have experienced in the past. I find it amusing, after reading all the posts describing the premiere's functionality, how most of Tivo apologists will bend over backwards to defend the premiere despite the evidence.

No one should ever be told by a company, or by anyone on this board, that they should except less than stellar customer service and product quality. Some consumers (like RoyK) expect companies to live up to their promises and sadly most others accept poor quality and service, and keep coming back for more.

"Thank you sir! May I have another!", The cry of the Tivo apologist!


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## LoneWolf15 (Mar 20, 2010)

RoyK said:


> I had the exact same experience with not one but two TiVoHDs. The first wouldn't boot. The second crashed on the first day and wouldn't boot after that. I know exactly how the OP feels and he's justified in feeling that way.


You and I will agree to disagree, then.

I've owned a lot of computer gear and other tech. equipment. I've had some crap, though I've been fortunate enough to not have too much of it. And, I admit the Tivo Premiere XL will be my first Tivo, though not my first DVR.

You won't be able to convince me that it's okay to expect a perfect ten out-of-box experience every time on every product. I also believe that Tivo has the right to be given a chance to make it right with the customer when a problem occurs, which apparently hasn't happened yet because it sounds like the customer hasn't called them yet.

Until I find out that more people are having this experience with this particular model of Tivo, I'll reserve my judgment on calling this very new product crap. I like to think that one experience, or even the OP's one, plus your two, does not make up the whole picture --I'll wait for a few more..


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

ciucca said:


> I didn't want to reply but after reading this post....
> 
> I'm sorry sir, but RoyK shelled out $800 plus time and aggravation to setup his new Tivo. He has a right to be pissed.
> 
> ...


If you think tech rolls out with 100% perfection rate, you're dreaming. It happens to all tech, not just Tivo. He has a right to be upset that he can't use it right now, but that's how tech goes - and he'll get a new one ASAP when he calls them. Suck it up. He didn't say "my premiere isn't working!" he said "the premiere is a piece of crap" - which are two different statements.


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## LoneWolf15 (Mar 20, 2010)

ciucca said:


> This post has the typical attitude of Tivo to their customers, something I have experienced in the past. I find it amusing, after reading all the posts describing the premiere's functionality, how most of Tivo apologists will bend over backwards to defend the premiere despite the evidence.
> 
> No one should ever be told by a company, or by anyone on this board, that they should except less than stellar customer service and product quality. Some consumers (like RoyK) expect companies to live up to their promises and sadly most others accept poor quality and service, and keep coming back for more.
> 
> "Thank you sir! May I have another!", The cry of the Tivo apologist!


I can't defend something I've owned for less than twelve hours. What I'm defending is a model of retail. That model is

1)A customer has a right to a functional product.
2)If the product isn't functional, the customer has a right to call customer service. It is customer service's job to work to solve the problem, and, if they cannot, repair the product to meet expectations, replace the product to meet them, or offer a refund. If they fail to do this, then yes, they have failed the customer.

RoyK has this right, as my previous post stated. He went through ALL the troubleshooting process with Tivo. He also has a right to be upset. But his experiences are NOT the same as the original poster's as he claims.

In comparison, the original poster hasn't even CALLED Tivo yet, from what he/she has told us.

Also note that RoyK's failed products are not Tivo Premiere units, so the experience may OR may not be the same. Too early to tell.


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## Scott Atkinson (Jan 19, 2004)

LoneWolf15 said:


> What I'm defending is a model of retail. That model is
> 
> 1)A customer has a right to a functional product.
> 2)If the product isn't functional, the customer has a right to call customer service. It is customer service's job to work to solve the problem, and, if they cannot, repair the product to meet expectations, replace the product to meet them, or offer a refund. If they fail to do this, then yes, they have failed the customer.


Like you, I wouldn't have jumped from opening the box to declaring it crap without passing through a few of your steps.

BUT....I repeat my drone from another thread: a Tivo is sold both explicitly and implicitly as an appliance, not as another piece of tech that may or may not work.

The OOTB experience is very important, and if the new Premiere is slow to start, that will affect the way people see Tivo. In my opinion, adding new features and changing the interface should never be an excuse for a machine becoming more complicated or less responsive at the user end.

Remember, Tivo became what it is because of its implementation of a revolutionary idea, not just the idea itself. In that, it's a lot like the iPod. Can you imagine the outcry if the new iPad takes a couple of minutes to boot and lags when you use the touchscreen?

(Note: I don't own a Premiere myself, so I'm only posting as a hypothetical and/or what I read here.)

Scott A.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

LoneWolf15 said:


> I also believe that Tivo has the right to be given a chance to make it right with the customer when a problem occurs ...


Exactly. It's sort of like leaving someone negative feedback on eBay without giving them a chance to rectify the situation.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

whatever happened to SixSigma?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

So far the four I've setup have been excellent. Under an hour for each from plugging it in to finishing the Service update. all four boxes are noticeably faster than my S3/TiVoHD boxes. I'll try and setup two more tonight. One more on FIOS and one OTA only.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RoyK said:


> Yes sir. It's completely unreasonable for a customer to shell out hundreds of dollars for something, plug it in, and expect it to work.


yeah - that would never happen with a Moxi box


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> yeah - that would never happen with a Moxi box


you've got to be kidding me. that will happen with ANY device. There's not even 100% error-free rate on electric toothbrushes.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

ciucca said:


> I'm sorry sir, but RoyK shelled out $800 plus time and aggravation to setup his new Tivo. He has a right to be pissed.!


Royk did not have the problem in this thread = maybe if you spent more time figuring out ACTUAL facts versus just bashing on "TiVo apologists" you could make relevant posts that add actual value to the conversation. 
Or what the heck - be like me and just make silly posts that have little bearing on anything really going on - I must admit that is way easier and way less aggravating.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

b_scott said:


> you've got to be kidding me. that will happen with ANY device. There's not even 100% error-free rate on electric toothbrushes.


*all* my electric toothbrushes have worked great so they do have 100% error free rate


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> *all* my electric toothbrushes have worked great so they do have 100% error free rate


for you. you're not a mass of people.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

b_scott said:


> for you. you're not a mass of people.


just because my diet is working is no reason I don't count


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> just because my diet is working is no reason I don't count


you're silly


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

b_scott said:


> you're silly


there you go - nail head = hammer and all that


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

bkdtv said:


> You shouldn't need to reboot the TiVo on a regular basis.


Microsoft use to say the same thing about Windows. Didn't make their customers any happier to know they shouldn't have to suffer through it often.


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## qz3fwd (Jul 6, 2007)

LoneWolf15 said:


> Ahh, the trials and tribulations of the "instant gratification" personality type.
> 
> Doesn't work to troubleshoot with the company upon purchase if things don't work --nay, nay, the device = crap, and nobody can tell them otherwise.
> Doesn't go through a logical procedure of tech support, instead, goes off half-cocked like a pistol with a hair-trigger.
> ...


An alternate solution to avoid this customer dis-satisfaction experience would have been for Tivo treat the initial launch batch with "white glove" 100% function check quality testing before the unit gets shipped.

What was the slogan "Reinventing the DVR....". Shouldnt such an important launch event been supported by zero defect quality product delivered to the first few customers hands?


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

HiDefGator said:


> Microsoft use to say the same thing about Windows. Didn't make their customers any happier to know they shouldn't have to suffer through it often.


I've only manually rebooted my Tivo maybe 5 times across 6 tivos in 6 years.


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## CubsWin (Mar 20, 2010)

20TIL6 said:


> Call Comcast and give the SN and Host ID, and ask for a "Staged Hit".


I tried, but I can't get anyone to even check the SN and Host ID for me. They walk me through the same basic troubleshooting steps each time and then I always get the "a technician has to come out" response.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

qz3fwd said:


> with "white glove" 100% function check quality testing before the unit gets shipped.


look I was kidding about the tooth brushes


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## matguy (Jul 20, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> look I was kidding about the tooth brushes


What?!?! We can't even depend on a toothbrush to work! Arg

*** Still tipsy from all the Moxi drinks. Wheee!! ***


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## LoneWolf15 (Mar 20, 2010)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Royk did not have the problem in this thread = maybe if you spent more time figuring out ACTUAL facts versus just bashing on "TiVo apologists" you could make relevant posts that add actual value to the conversation.
> Or what the heck - be like me and just make silly posts that have little bearing on anything really going on - I must admit that is way easier and way less aggravating.


I was going to say, the irony of that first paragraph was staggering.



matguy said:


> *** Still tipsy from all the Moxi drinks. Wheee!! ***


Personally, I'm not a big fan of Moxi-flavored Kool-Aid; do they have a Moxi-Cola I could try instead?


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## Phasers (May 29, 2008)

*OP Checking back in here...*

Anyways, so perhaps I over-reacted. But I don't think it is unreasonable for me to expect that when I purchase a product it should work out of the box.

Also, a box with a constant reboot loop struck me as a software issue, especially since it happened consistently in the same situations. Also there are numerous reported bugs on the Premiere software so logically I assumed that was the case. Consider this: on the inital guided setup if I dared to change the resolution from 720p to 1080i, it would reboot as soon as I slected "Antenna Only" on the next screen. Tell me, does that strike *you* as a hardware, or a software issue?

But moving on, I went to Best Buy and exchanged it out for a new one (which was an ordeal in itself since I purchased via BestBuy.com for instore pickup and dared and used reward zone certificates). I'm going through guided setup right now, and so far no crashes. Currently it is scanning antenna channels, so we'll see how it goes.


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## LoneWolf15 (Mar 20, 2010)

qz3fwd said:


> An alternate solution to avoid this customer dis-satisfaction experience would have been for Tivo treat the initial launch batch with "white glove" 100% function check quality testing before the unit gets shipped.
> 
> What was the slogan "Reinventing the DVR....". Shouldnt such an important launch event been supported by zero defect quality product delivered to the first few customers hands?


And that would have helped, because UPS has _never_ dropped, kicked, or stepped on a package during shipping, have they?

Add that to the concept that an OS upgrade occurs right after you get the unit during setup. I guarantee no user will ever have their power interrupted, or their Internet connection fail during the upgrade, ever, during that upgrade. It's just unpossible.

Yes, I'm being sarcastic --and yes, this isn't meant to be reflected at RoyK or the original poster. What it is meant to indicate is that zero defects is impossible to achieve, unless you live in an alternate reality where the world is perfect.

Unfortunately the OP is experiencing a problem. While I feel his pain, I find his immediate reaction to be a knee-jerk one, considering that steps are available to attempt to solve the problem that it appears he/she hasn't taken.

EDIT: Phasers, this post was being made while you were making the one previous. Thanks for giving us an update on this. I can only tell you that my setup went well, as well as the CableCARD install that happened this afternoon. Small comfort I'm sure, but just as one failure doesn't mean the Tivo Premiere is crap, my one functioning unit doesn't mean it's a success either. We'll have to wait and see how things shake out. I'm glad you now have a working unit.


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## Phasers (May 29, 2008)

LoneWolf15 said:


> And that would have helped, because UPS has _never_ dropped, kicked, or stepped on a package during shipping, have they?
> 
> Add that to the concept that an OS upgrade occurs right after you get the unit during setup. I guarantee no user will ever have their power interrupted, or their Internet connection fail during the upgrade, ever, during that upgrade. It's just unpossible.
> 
> ...


I posted right above you, you know. And what logical step could I have taken in my situation?
*Me:* Called Tivo and said "hey my box won't stop rebooting and boots up to a solid grey screen each time".
*Tivo CSR*: "Ok sir let's try a 'Clear and Delete Everything' and see if that fixes it?"
*Me:* "Whoops too late it rebooted again"
*Tivo CSR:* "Well let's wait til it comes back up and try it again..."
_[waiting...]_
*Me:* "Well it just did the same thing YET again, cuz it is stuck on an endless loop like I told you"
*Tivo CSR:* "Well the only thing I can suggest is that you get a new unit because there is nothing we can do"

It was 11:30 PM when I posted. What the box needed was a hard reset at the time so I could repeat guided setup. But the only physical button on the Premiere is a "Format" button. Everything else is controlled by software. That, to me, is a design flaw. I couldn't exactly go back to the store at midnight could I?

So maybe the generalization of "crap" was a bit excessive; however there was *nothing I could have done *with that box *due to Tivo's design*. Hell, even my Router has a hard reset button which resets the software to a default state.


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## litkaj (Jun 5, 2007)

I'm starting to think I got a bad box as well. One of my new XLs works fine. The other one locks up every once in a while when you press "TiVo" or "Select" (but the menu background keeps moving). If I unplug and plug back in it MIGHT work but might not.

I bought them from Best Buy so that I could swap them out if there was an issue. Unfortunately, none of the local stores have any... The box is already activated with Lifetime and the extended warranty. Assuming I wait for BB to get one in stock, anyone know what the process is to get TiVo to transfer the lifetime and warranty to my replacement?


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## Phasers (May 29, 2008)

litkaj said:


> I'm starting to think I got a bad box as well. One of my new XLs works fine. The other one locks up every once in a while when you press "TiVo" or "Select" (but the menu background keeps moving). If I unplug and plug back in it MIGHT work but might not.
> 
> I bought them from Best Buy so that I could swap them out if there was an issue. Unfortunately, none of the local stores have any... The box is already activated with Lifetime and the extended warranty. Assuming I wait for BB to get one in stock, anyone know what the process is to get TiVo to transfer the lifetime and warranty to my replacement?


Within 30 days (99% sure on the time limit) they just swap the service number... no fee, no refund/rebill. I did it this morning no problem...


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## MichaelJHuman (Aug 3, 2005)

Mine works fine. So perhaps it's not a global issue?


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## LoneWolf15 (Mar 20, 2010)

Phasers said:


> I posted right above you, you know. And what logical step could I have taken in my situation?


Note what I said below you:



> Yes, I'm being sarcastic --and yes, this isn't meant to be reflected at RoyK or the original poster.





> EDIT: Phasers, this post was being made while you were making the one previous. Thanks for giving us an update on this. I can only tell you that my setup went well, as well as the CableCARD install that happened this afternoon. Small comfort I'm sure, but just as one failure doesn't mean the Tivo Premiere is crap, my one functioning unit doesn't mean it's a success either. We'll have to wait and see how things shake out. I'm glad you now have a working unit.


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## Phasers (May 29, 2008)

LoneWolf15 said:


> Note what I said below you:


Ok fair enough... sorry.


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## 20TIL6 (Sep 7, 2006)

CubsWin said:


> I tried, but I can't get anyone to even check the SN and Host ID for me. They walk me through the same basic troubleshooting steps each time and then I always get the "a technician has to come out" response.


I would have a technician come visit then. Comcast here does not charge for the visit. They sent three guys out here a few years ago and after checking connections and signal strength, they were able to tweak something at the head-end, and then routed themselves over the phone to get the pairing done. It took the whole day, but it was worth it.


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## JB162 (Apr 25, 2010)

I'm having the same problem with my series4. I've owned 3 previous Tivo's and never had a problem like this. I kept it for 30 days hoping they would fix it but they did not. Basically, while watching TV if you press the TiVo button on the remote, about once a day the TiVo crashes and blacks out for an hour while it reboots. Very poor quality testing. I had amazon send me a replacement, hopefully just the initial batch were broken.


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## clemm (Apr 21, 2010)

There are just too many of these "bad boxes" for it to be considered a fluke. There is a problem with this newest version and those of you lucky enough to not have a problem are apparently in the minority. Just look at all the threads about all the different, and some of the same, problems. To the OP, I feel your pain. Send it back.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

clemm said:


> There are just too many of these "bad boxes" for it to be considered a fluke. There is a problem with this newest version and those of you lucky enough to not have a problem are apparently in the minority. Just look at all the threads about all the different, and some of the same, problems. To the OP, I feel your pain. Send it back.


If the problems were that wide spread it seems like the odds would be that at least one of my boxes would have issues. But none of my seven units I have setup have problems.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

aaronwt said:


> If the problems were that wide spread it seems like the odds would be that at least one of my boxes would have issues. But none of my seven units I have setup have problems.


Statistically speaking, you are not a random sample so neither conclusion can be drawn. For example, some of the problems could be related to a particular cable company, and/or type of cable card, and/or tuning adapter, and/or amp, and/or TV. Other problems could be the way you set it up and use it compared to others. It can get wildly complex. You are even less random if you purchased all your boxes at the same time, since if some of the problems are hardware related, you likely got a run of "good" boxes. (However, based on what I have seen in the reports, I suspect most of the problems are software).

And this forum is not an evenly distributed random sample of users, either. For example- people will be more motivated to seek out a forum if they are having problems, not if they don't.

So about all we can know for sure is that there are a number of very serious problems with the Premiere, but we don't know just how wide-spread they are. Only TiVo would have enough data to know, at this point.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Even once the hardware works perfectly, there's still a reasonably good chance of considering the Premiere a piece of CRAP, at least considering how it's being marketed at the moment, and the current stability and feature level of the software for it.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

clemm said:


> There are just too many of these "bad boxes" for it to be considered a fluke. There is a problem with this newest version and those of you lucky enough to not have a problem are apparently in the minority. Just look at all the threads about all the different, and some of the same, problems. To the OP, I feel your pain. Send it back.





crxssi said:


> aaronwt said:
> 
> 
> > If the problems were that wide spread it seems like the odds would be that at least one of my boxes would have issues. But none of my seven units I have setup have problems.
> ...


Well said. Excellent rational points.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> If the problems were that wide spread it seems like the odds would be that at least one of my boxes would have issues. But none of my seven units I have setup have problems.


Ok I think anybody reading this form knows that *clemm* had a problem with one TP (and will not stop telling us about it) and you (*aaronwt*) have no problems with your 6 or so TPs and keep answering most people that find any problem with that information, so I think we have to consider that the TP operation may be too sensitive to some external force as I am listing below.
1) The outside internet connection that comes into your home (or your home router system)
2) The HDMI handshake sensitivity when the TP will change HDTV output format 
3) Audio noise on analog cable channels (again the TP may have too much sensitivity to how the cable system is sending out their signal) I have used the TPXL & TP only on analog cable without that problem.

TiVo knew that some of its menus were not in HD when they released the TP and if that were the only problem we all could have lived with that as we all use the TiVo 90% or more of the time to record and watch programs, not play with the menu system. TiVo may not have been aware of the other problems if external sensitivity caused them, as their design people would not have seen them all over the place (IE if the initial testing had been done at *aaronwt* home TiVo would not have seen the other problems people are experiencing)
I think it would be helpful if the people on this form spent more time describing their problem(s) as opposed to comments about TiVo.inc itself.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

lessd said:


> ... so I think we have to consider that the TP operation may be too sensitive to some external force as I am listing below.
> 1) The outside internet connection that comes into your home (or your home router system)
> 2) The HDMI handshake sensitivity when the TP will change HDTV output format
> 3) Audio noise on analog cable channels (again the TP may have too much sensitivity to how the cable system is sending out their signal) I have used the TPXL & TP only on analog cable without that problem...
> ...


Since the product is designed to be sold to markets all over the US and since it's no secret that conditions vary considerably from location to location I, for one, would have assumed that alpha and beta testing would have been done in a large enough number of sites that many if not all of the problems people began reporting on day 1 would have been known well before release date.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

RoyK said:


> Since the product is designed to be sold to markets all over the US and since it's no secret that conditions vary considerably from location to location I, for one, would have assumed that alpha and beta testing would have been done in a large enough number of sites that many if not all of the problems people began reporting on day 1 would have been known well before release date.


You would think. And maybe it was known. these boxes were made many months before the actual release date so maybe they held off releasing as long as they could. But you can't have inventory sitting in a warehouse forever.

I'm just glad my problems are not with the boxes themselves. But with TiVo and the naming of my boxes. The naming of my boxes still has not been resolved. And it would be more of an issue if I was only using TiVo desktop. since TiVo Desktop doesn't see those boxes. But I started using the TiVo WHS Add In and with that I can see those un-named boxes and transfer titles to my WHS so it's not as much of an issue right now as it could have been for me.

Perhaps the issue is with the number of boxes on my account(even though they told me it wasn't)? Once I get my TiVoHD and S3 models sold I can get them off my account, leaving only the Premieres. And maybe that will resolve my naming issue.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

RoyK said:


> Since the product is designed to be sold to markets all over the US and since it's no secret that conditions vary considerably from location to location I, for one, would have assumed that alpha and beta testing would have been done in a large enough number of sites that many if not all of the problems people began reporting on day 1 would have been known well before release date.


You point is a good one BUT what really did happen to cause so many people to have less than a great TiVo experience? (no testing outside of CA?) and what can TiVo do about it now? A slow improvement over the next year or so would turn off many customers and if Best Buy starts getting a ton of these TP back, they may question the value of selling them, at least for now.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

lessd said:


> You point is a good one BUT what really did happen to cause so many people to have less than a great TiVo experience? (no testing outside of CA?) and what can TiVo do about it now? A slow improvement over the next year or so would turn off many customers and if Best Buy starts getting a ton of these TP back, they may question the value of selling them, at least for now.


Well, I'd submit either my assumption that TiVo tested the design in a broad sample of markets is incorrect or they opted to field the box with full knowledge that many customers were going to have problems with it.


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## brasscat (Mar 31, 2002)

I think it's understandable to get angry when shelling out a lot of money and the item doesn't work as expected. The marketing hype on the Premiere was pretty exciting, and the buzz gets killed pretty quickly when you have to spend more than 45 minutes waiting on the box to get itself ready for you to setup.

Of course, angry Premiere users almost always seem to go over-the-top with their anger. I agree that the more matured course of action would be to first see if TiVo Support can resolve the problem. Also, it's possible that the unit was defective -- at that return point it's up to the customer to return the unit or try another box. (There does seem to be a lot of defective units if you read these forums!)

Personally, my satisfaction level is more like "disappointed, but still hanging in there." I didn't like the fact that the software wasn't ready (at least by my standards) for launch, and that an immediate update was required to help with lock ups. Also, I'm still having serious HDUI slowdowns when my drive loads up with programs, so much so that I can't really use the HDUI (it takes sometimes up to 5 seconds for each screen to load, which gets more annoying over time).

But I'm not so angry at TiVo that I'm irrational. I'm optimistic that things will get better. And I'll wait to hear of customer reviews first before I buy the next model (unless I decide to go with a Moxi DVR).

I am surprised that I haven't heard more complaints about the new Wireless-N adapter's $90 price tag. Really, that's an absurdly high (insulting to me really) price for something that should have been integrated in this model. At least, they should have discontinued the G with the N at the same price point. I feel that with all the glitches us early adopters have to endure, TiVo isn't giving customers any breaks whatsoever.


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## deandashl (Aug 8, 2008)

I feel the combination of barely started UI and hardware that isn't what it SHOULD'VE been. (3rd tuner, streaming extenders, etc.) says more about TiVo, Inc. than anything else.

A truly disorganized, out-of-touch, cable appeasing and then screwed by, never looked at the Moxi website -- TiVo

When the 3 tuner model comes out with a workable UI --- I'm IN!! And they will have to, because only an idiot would play $200 extra for $20 of extra HD.


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## cydeweyz (Mar 15, 2010)

brasscat said:


> Of course, angry Premiere users almost always seem to go over-the-top with their anger. I agree that the more matured course of action would be to first see if TiVo Support can resolve the problem.


I have zero problem with the over-the-top anger, mainly because it equals the marketing hype Tivo created. If Tivo marketing hadn't done such a good job of promising an evolution to the DVR, when Tivo engineers weren't anywhere close to delivering on that promise, why should Tivo support suffer for it? Let people rant and rave here, and get it all out. The company can read this site and others at their leisure, argue with themselves internally, and improve on the product they promised a month ago.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

deandashl said:


> A truly disorganized, out-of-touch, cable appeasing and then screwed by, never looked at the Moxi website -- TiVo


Ironically - TiVo is getting deals off the ground that will likely turn into significant parts of their revenue from cable and from DirectTV.
Digeo on the other hand never was able to get any deals with cable companies -which is all they wanted to do in the first place - and then sold the company off as they could not sustain Digeo on the stand alone sales that Moxi tallied.

but Moxi does have 3 tuners and a bigger hard drive :up:


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Ironically - TiVo is getting deals off the ground that will likely turn into significant parts of their revenue from cable and from DirectTV.
> Digeo on the other hand never was able to get any deals with cable companies -which is all they wanted to do in the first place - and then sold the company off as they could not sustain Digeo on the stand alone sales that Moxi tallied.
> 
> but Moxi does have 3 tuners and a bigger hard drive :up:


Without patents Tivo wouldn't have any deals with cable companies today either. It ain't like they ran the company so much better.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

HiDefGator said:


> Without patents Tivo wouldn't have any deals with cable companies today either. It ain't like they ran the company so much better.


umm - TiVo created those patents, they were not given to TiVo. TiVo defended their patents and helped themselves to create the deals with the MSOs.
Now if TiVo had bought the patents and done some SCO business plan then you might have a point here.


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## ski9600 (Mar 17, 2005)

My Premier XL came very fast, and I didn't start it till last Monday 4/26/2010. Then the cable guy came out and mine was the first M-Card to be authorized from my provider. It took till this afternoon (one week,4 days, we had some issues), but we're golden now I think. One of the problems I am having now is due to the cable provider switching the channel lineup lately, so I've put in multiple reports on the Tivo site to identify the issue (it will only allow 3 at a time). I'm sure that now it's in Tivo's court that there will be joy.


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## mcarthurdw (9 mo ago)

Phasers said:


> To copy my post from the 'bugs' thread:
> 
> 
> So total, I have had over 15 reboots, can't use the damn thing. And to think I just shelled out *over $800* to upgrade my series 3 and add lifetime.
> ...


Tivo is with out question the biggest pile of plastic crap I have ever seen! And they have the gall to charge a subscription fee that does nothing for their plastic turd that is worthless. Don't get me started on the horse **** Support! I have had it with these jerks! I am demanding a full refund of everything including the bull**** subscription. Or I will be more than happy to sue these bums!


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## mcarthurdw (9 mo ago)

b_scott said:


> If you think tech rolls out with 100% perfection rate, you're dreaming. It happens to all tech, not just Tivo. He has a right to be upset that he can't use it right now, but that's how tech goes - and he'll get a new one ASAP when he calls them. Suck it up. He didn't say "my premiere isn't working!" he said "the premiere is a piece of crap" - which are two different statements.


Any company that isn't joke test their products before releasing them, thus Tivo is a Joke Company Q.E.D.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

mcarthurdw said:


> Tivo is with out question the biggest pile of plastic crap I have ever seen! And they have the gall to charge a subscription fee that does nothing for their plastic turd that is worthless. Don't get me started on the horse *** Support! I have had it with these jerks! I am demanding a full refund of everything including the bull*** subscription. Or I will be more than happy to sue these bums!


A series 3?!?! That is ancient. Even though I never ran across it with mine, the Series 3 power supply would start failing and cause a bunch of issues. Like all Tivos, most issues end up being the power supply or the hard drive.

Any series 3 TiVos would be between thirteen and sixteen years old. Since they were sold between 2006 and 2009. Or maybe 2008? But that would be a long time with the original power supply.

And I just realized this is about the premiere. Which would be between ten and thirteen years old. The same issue applies with the power supply and hard drive. None of those last forever. 
Sent from my Tab A7 Gray


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