# Trying to install a new TiVo Mini: network help needed



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

When I moved into my house ten years ago, the cable network was split in the attic. To get a "home run" system, Comcast ran the line into my utility room. That was fine, because my TV was on the other side of the wall, so all my equipment is in the utility room. A couple years later we put a TV in our hearth room. To make sure the MOCA network worked, I was able to run a conduit from the utility room to the attic, and then ran a coax cable across the attic, above the hearth room, and dropped a line in from there. My TiVo Mini in the hearth room has been working fine for years.

Now, I just got a TV in my office. I ran every line that had been split in the attic down to the utility room, and tried them all one by one on my splitter, but the new Mini can't see a network connection. In speaking with TiVo customer support, they said that if the line to the office was split up even further in the walls, then the signal might not make it. They recommended trying a POE filter on the incoming cable, and I've ordered one from Amazon. Fingers crossed, I hope that works. If it doesn't, I need to explore my options.

1. Get Comcast to come out and get the cable outlet in my office working. That's $80, not too bad. But my fear is that Comcast doesn't care about MOCA, they care about a cable signal, and if the lines are split in the wall, it might be fine for cable but not for MOCA.

2. Get one of those devices that turns your electrical wiring into transmission for ethernet. Not recommended by TiVo, but the tech said he has heard of this working. http://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-PA4010KIT-Powerline-Adapter-Starter/dp/B00AWRUICG/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1462667618&sr=8-4&keywords=ethernet+through+outlet

3. Get a Wifi Extender with an ethernet jack. http://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Wi-Fi-Extender-Essentials-EX2700/dp/B00L0YLRUW/ref=sr_1_2?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1462667752&sr=1-2&keywords=wifi+extender

4. Come here and get you guys to give advice. 

What do you guys think?


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Philosofy said:


> When I moved into my house ten years ago, the cable network was split in the attic. To get a "home run" system, Comcast ran the line into my utility room. That was fine, because my TV was on the other side of the wall, so all my equipment is in the utility room. A couple years later we put a TV in our hearth room. To make sure the MOCA network worked, I was able to run a conduit from the utility room to the attic, and then ran a coax cable across the attic, above the hearth room, and dropped a line in from there. My TiVo Mini in the hearth room has been working fine for years.
> 
> Now, I just got a TV in my office. I ran every line that had been split in the attic down to the utility room, and tried them all one by one on my splitter, but the new Mini can't see a network connection. In speaking with TiVo customer support, they said that if the line to the office was split up even further in the walls, then the signal might not make it. They recommended trying a POE filter on the incoming cable, and I've ordered one from Amazon. Fingers crossed, I hope that works. If it doesn't, I need to explore my options.
> 
> ...


Skip 1-3 for the time being. Is there one line from the outside now coming to and feeding one splitter in the basement? If so, the input of that splitter is where you want to add the MoCA POE filter. How many lines are you feeding and how many coax ports are on the splitter. What is the make of the splitter and what are it's frequency ratings. Is the splitter MoCA rated?
EDIT: Who ran the new coax for you, is it RG-6 and did they use proper compression fittings or the older crimp on style.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

You are correct, the line comes in from outside and feeds the splitter. I'm not home now, so I don't know the make and model, but off the splitter is the TiVo Roamio, the modem, the TiVo mini upstairs, and an empty slot I was trying the other cables on. The 
Mini upstairs has RG6 compression. The home was built in '96, so I'm pretty sure the in wall cables are RG59 with crimped connections.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

As someone that's run a mini on powerline adapters for years it's not all gloom and doom, if you have ok wiring in the house a powerline adapter can run a mini just fine and it's a very very easy install, I prefer the Zyxel over the TP-link


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Thanks Diane. My splitter is a PCT-NGNII-4S Genesis II. Its a 4 way splitter, 5-1000MHz -130dB RFI.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Philosofy said:


> Thanks Diane. My splitter is a PCT-NGNII-4S Genesis II. Its a 4 way splitter, 5-1000MHz -130dB RFI.


If you want to do this incrementally, the first thing to try would be to get a MoCA POE /Whole Home DVR filter on the input of the splitter and test. The filter gives you a slight boost to the MoCA frequencies. If you are in more of a hurry to get this going, I would also order a MoCA rated splitter to replace the one you have, 
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OTOEIGK..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1MS6WNNVYBQCTDAYKSSA

http://www.techtoolsupply.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=CATV+MoCA+RATED

If you have open coax ports on the splitter or wall outlets, you might want to invest in some 75 Ohm F-type coax terminators, and use one on any open ports. These are readily available online and at some local hardware stores.


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## convergent (Jan 4, 2007)

Philosofy said:


> Thanks Diane. My splitter is a PCT-NGNII-4S Genesis II. Its a 4 way splitter, 5-1000MHz -130dB RFI.


MoCA uses frequencies above 1000Mhz, so the skitter may be the issue, or at least contributing to it.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

The upstairs Mini is running off of the same splitter, but perhaps the other splitters down the line (and in the wall) aren't helping. The upstairs Mini has a straight shot with new cable.


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## CCourtney (Mar 28, 2006)

Philosofy said:


> You are correct, the line comes in from outside and feeds the splitter. I'm not home now, so I don't know the make and model, but off the splitter is the TiVo Roamio, the modem, the TiVo mini upstairs, and an empty slot I was trying the other cables on. The
> Mini upstairs has RG6 compression. The home was built in '96, so I'm pretty sure the in wall cables are RG59 with crimped connections.


This is implying that at the first splitter you have straight runs to the Roamio and to the Mini, with no splitters in between.



Philosofy said:


> The upstairs Mini is running off of the same splitter, but perhaps the other splitters down the line (and in the wall) aren't helping. The upstairs Mini has a straight shot with new cable.


If that's true and you have straight runs between your first splitter and the Roamio and the Mini then it shouldn't matter what else is one other lines (from a MoCA standpoint at least.)

But as mentioned, you likely need to replace that first splitter with one that supports MoCA frequences like fcfc2 provided some links to.

Note that the POE filter isn't going to help you get connected, but you still need it as it's to prevent MoCA frequencies from getting in/out of your house (i.e. so no body can get into your personal network, and to prevent interference into other peoples networks and vice versa)


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

OK, I got both the POE (and I understand its just for security) and a Moca rated splitter. Still no go. I tried all seven lines open to me. And just to clarify, here's my setup:

Cable into the house -> 4 way splitter

From splitter:
Line 1: Modem/Router
Line 2: TiVo Roamio
Line 3: Upstairs Mini
Line 4: I've tried every line I can see in the attic. There are seven of them, and I have four runs going to the utility room. To try all of them, I have to go in the attic, crawl up a makeshift ladder, crawl across about 35 feet of rafters, then down another makeshift ladder, and balance on joists while switching the connections. Not the most fun thing to do.

Is there some kind of signal amplifier I can put on the 4th output of the splitter?


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## CCourtney (Mar 28, 2006)

Philosofy said:


> OK, I got both the POE (and I understand its just for security) and a Moca rated splitter. Still no go. I tried all seven lines open to me. And just to clarify, here's my setup:
> 
> Cable into the house -> 4 way splitter
> 
> ...


That looks fine to me.

I'm sure that TiVo Customer Support has already went through this, but just to make sure...

1.) Did you register your TiVo Mini?
2.) Did you enable your Roamio as a MoCA Provider?
3.) You're using a wired Ethernet connection on the Roamio?

Assuming the above are True (and if not, then you need to do them.) You can try the following:

Bring the Mini into the room with the Roamio and directly connect a single coax between the Roamio and Mini and see if you get the network over MoCA.

If that doesn't work, connect the Mini directly to Ethernet and see if you get Network access over Ethernet.

A bit of trial an error, but doing these and reporting the results may lead us to identify where a problem may be.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

1 Yes
2 Yes
3. No. I set up the second Mini by using the tv and cables the upstairs Mini uses. There is no Ethernet connection in my office. Just a coax connection.


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## jim1971 (Oct 11, 2015)

Philosofy said:


> 1 Yes
> 2 Yes
> 3. No. I set up the second Mini by using the tv and cables the upstairs Mini uses. There is no Ethernet connection in my office. Just a coax connection.


If you have a spare router, try turning it into a wifi bridge and connecting the troublesome Mini to it.

I had terrible troubles getting a couple of minis to work several months ago, but turning everything into moca fixed it for me. Everything also worked if connected to a router working as a wifi bridge, but that wasn't practical for a full tivo system ... one device maybe.

If you have a spare router but it doesn't support bridge mode, try putting DD-WRT on it and setting it up as a wifi client. That works pretty good. Instructions are all over the internet. Some routers have 'official' alternate firmware, such a Merlin and Asus. I think Merlin's firmware supports a wifi bridge. If you end up buying a router to convert, an inexpensive older N600 one would work great if it is only going to be a wifi bridge. Just make sure whatever you buy will support alternate firmware; not all can.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

jim1971 said:


> If you have a spare router, try turning it into a wifi bridge and connecting the troublesome Mini to it.
> 
> I had terrible troubles getting a couple of minis to work several months ago, but turning everything into moca fixed it for me. Everything also worked if connected to a router working as a wifi bridge, but that wasn't practical for a full tivo system ... one device maybe.
> 
> If you have a spare router but it doesn't support bridge mode, try putting DD-WRT on it and setting it up as a wifi client. That works pretty good. Instructions are all over the internet. Some routers have 'official' alternate firmware, such a Merlin and Asus. I think Merlin's firmware supports a wifi bridge. If you end up buying a router to convert, an inexpensive older N600 one would work great if it is only going to be a wifi bridge. Just make sure whatever you buy will support alternate firmware; not all can.


Thanks. What you wrote is all above my head, but I'll research it.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Philosofy said:


> OK, I got both the POE (and I understand its just for security) and a Moca rated splitter. Still no go. I tried all seven lines open to me. And just to clarify, here's my setup:
> 
> Cable into the house -> 4 way splitter
> 
> ...


Hi,
It sounds like part of the problem is that you cannot be sure which is the correct cable to connect to that 4th port, and making that journey back and forth is hellish. There is a tool available which may help you limit that ordeal quite a bit, here it is, http://www.amazon.com/Steren-PVPT2-Cable-Continuity-Tester/dp/B000GDDPRG 
Basically you connect the small end to the outlet you want to use and then go through connecting those open cables up in the attic one by one until you get a tone and the red light comes on. At least that way, you know you are working on the correct line.


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## jim1971 (Oct 11, 2015)

Philosofy said:


> Thanks. What you wrote is all above my head, but I'll research it.


A client bridge is a router that is configured so that a wired device can behave like a wireless one. It's basically like the little card in your laptop that gives it wifi, except it's not internal, not little, and not a card.

TP-Link sells some routers that have client mode built in. I used a small TP-Link WR702 travel router in client bridge mode to connect a slingbox to my network. It worked well for several years until I wired the house with cat6. It costs about $15. My wireless network is low use so the travel router worked well for me. If you have a household banging away on 2.4ghz and the signal has to travel through many many walls, then it might not work, but for $15, it's not the end of the world if it doesn't. It has a fast set-up wizard built in.

I also used the WR702 to test my used 4 tuner premiere after I bought it. The travel router connected it to the main network flawlessly for several weeks before moving it to the main tv and cat6.

http://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-WR...&ie=UTF8&qid=1462973043&sr=1-1&keywords=wr702


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## CCourtney (Mar 28, 2006)

Philosofy said:


> 1 Yes
> 2 Yes
> 3. No. I set up the second Mini by using the tv and cables the upstairs Mini uses. There is no Ethernet connection in my office. Just a coax connection.


Just to confirm on #3, by saying No. You're saying that you're using WiFi to connect your Roamio to your network. This is what one can infer from your but I want to make sure I've got the facts straight. TiVo does not support this setup with a Mini (and the instructions specifically say it can't be done.) I'm surprised support didn't identify this as the issue to begin with. But all is not lost.

Ok, for this to work you either need a MoCA connection from your Router to your Roamio or Wired Ethernet connection to your Roamio (and then have the Roamio provide the MoCA connection to your Mini.)

You can still get a 'Wired' connection to your Roamio over WiFi. You just need to use a WiFi Adapter or AP/Gateway. It will get the WiFi signal and then pass it wired to the TiVo Roamio and the Roamio doesn't know the difference (Toss WiFi Adapter in Amazon.) This would be my suggested method.

The other way is to use MoCA adapter at your Router to provide network access to bother your Roamio and Mini over Cable. Plenty of threads on how to do this on the forum.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Philosofy said:


> 1 Yes
> 2 Yes
> 3. No. I set up the second Mini by using the tv and cables the upstairs Mini uses. There is no Ethernet connection in my office. Just a coax connection.


Your answer to number 3, is not clear, the question was how is your Roamio connected to the internet/router? There are only 2 choices if you are going to use a mini with it, Ethernet or MoCA. Wireless connection on the Roamio does not work with minis on MoCA.
You can "fool" the Tivos into thinking they are on Ethernet via a wireless to Ethernet device/Bridge but this is ill advised unless you have a pretty fast router (high N or AC) and a similar speed wireless to Ethernet device/Bridge, these are sometimes called "media bridges". 
Please clarify how you are connecting your Roamio and if you are considering trying wireless options, give the make and model number of your router.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

I"m trying to connect the Roamio via a Moca network. I thought Ethernet was the other cable (that's similar to a phone cable.). I'm traveling now, so I'll check it out when I get home. That cable continuity tester looks great: another toy for me! Also, I have an Apple Time Capsule. Can I configure that to act as a wireless bridge?


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## jim1971 (Oct 11, 2015)

Philosofy said:


> I"m trying to connect the Roamio via a Moca network. I thought Ethernet was the other cable (that's similar to a phone cable.). I'm traveling now, so I'll check it out when I get home. That cable continuity tester looks great: another toy for me! Also, I have an Apple Time Capsule. Can I configure that to act as a wireless bridge?







Apparently, yes, it supports a bridge mode. Google also provided some pages that offer instructions.

The illustrations did not ask for any security information. This is a little different from other configurations that need to know the ssid, sometimes the mac address of the main router (usually from a dropdown list it provides automatically) and password. But, if it works, it works. Maybe you need to enter it somewhere not shown on the video or maybe I just missed it.

In practice, the wireless bridge is just another wireless client attached to the network, just like all other wireless devices. The only difference is that it allows wired devices to attach to the network just like a switch would allow wired devices to attach to the network.

I'm not an apple user so I can't be more specific. The lack of wireless security seems to be a detriment, not a positive. But, at least, you can test it in theory. I've never been an apple fan because they like to be different for no apparent reason other than being different and acting as if they hope it makes them look better in some way.

You can also buy dedicated wireless bridges. I've always preferred converting a router since a dedicated wireless bridge is just a router with features removed. It's a marketing gimmick to make you buy two things as opposed to using a spare router to build the bridge.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Philosofy said:


> I"m trying to connect the Roamio via a Moca network. I thought Ethernet was the other cable (that's similar to a phone cable.). I'm traveling now, so I'll check it out when I get home. That cable continuity tester looks great: another toy for me! Also, I have an Apple Time Capsule. Can I configure that to act as a wireless bridge?


I can't ask it any simpler, what is the make and model number of the router you are using to get internet access? Is it the Apple Time Capsule?
You reported you were using your Roamio and one mini and have been having problems since you tried to add an additional mini. When just the Roamio and the first mini were working, how was the Roamio getting access to the internet, Ethernet, MoCA, or wireless?


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

fcfc2 said:


> I can't ask it any simpler, what is the make and model number of the router you are using to get internet access? Is it the Apple Time Capsule?
> You reported you were using your Roamio and one mini and have been having problems since you tried to add an additional mini. When just the Roamio and the first mini were working, how was the Roamio getting access to the internet, Ethernet, MoCA, or wireless?


Its a Comcast router. The first Mini is connected via Moca. I was hoping to connect the second Mini in the same way.


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## CCourtney (Mar 28, 2006)

Philosofy said:


> I"m trying to connect the Roamio via a Moca network. I thought Ethernet was the other cable (that's similar to a phone cable.). I'm traveling now, so I'll check it out when I get home. That cable continuity tester looks great: another toy for me! Also, I have an Apple Time Capsule. Can I configure that to act as a wireless bridge?


Ok, I now believe I understand your setup. It was a bit confusing.

So you have the Mini in your Hearth Room up and running. You're trying to setup a second Mini in your office. You have a Roamio that's getting it's data over MoCA connection already (that was the part that wasn't clear)

So, what's providing the MoCA connection. Does your Cable Modem supply it natively, or are you using a MoCA adapter? Where is this in relation to your main splitter?

One thing you can try is trying the new Mini in the Hearth room where you have the other Mini working, and see if it connects.

If it doesn't then you may have a faulty Mini.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

OK, I misunderstood you now! The Roamio is the one providing the Moca. The Roamio gets its data from the modem via ethernet.


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## CCourtney (Mar 28, 2006)

Philosofy said:


> OK, I misunderstood you now! The Roamio is the one providing the Moca. The Roamio gets its data from the modem via ethernet.


Ok, we've come full circle now.

So you've got

Roamio w/ Ethernet - providing MoCA

Mini#1 (Hearth Room) - Connected via MoCA

Mini#2 (Office) - Failing to connect via MoCA (EDIT: Reworded for clarification)

Office only has Cable - No Wired Ethernet available.

- Correct Anything that's wrong there.

I Still recommend taking the Mini#2 that's not connecting and putting it in place of the Mini#1 and verify that it connects before you do anything else. Because as I mentioned if it's not connecting there then it's likely a bad Mini that needs to be replaced.

If it does connect there, then you've got something in the line to the office that's not passing MoCA signals (could be other unknown splitters, bad cable, etc.) The simplest thing to do would be to just use an Wireless Adapter at that end to provide the Wired Ethernet source to the Mini.


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## jim1971 (Oct 11, 2015)

ccourtney,

When he described a spiltter to the office, he was talking about moca since Ethernet splitters do not exist unless you call them switches.

You are right, it's a troubleshooting issue. It could be a bad splitter, a bad mini, a tivo server problem, or a bad cable / connector. I hate those, especially when they are hard to deal with.

To the bad for the OP, I stopped trying to figure out network layouts long long ago from narrative descriptions. Nobody, nobody ever describes their network concisely or accurately or with enough technical understanding to be useful. Maybe once out of 100. I figure a close try is good enough for a reply.

Note to OP:

swap minis.

if that doesn't help, replace splitter.

if that doesn't work, replace cable / connectors. (You tube has videos for this if DYI)

try wireless bridge

lastly, b*tch to tivo to see it there's an 'email tivomargret' solution somewhere.

Or, we can go tivo customer service on this and ask 'have you rebooted your router?' if not give it a try. don't expect success but you never know. It's part of their script.


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## CCourtney (Mar 28, 2006)

jim1971 said:


> ccourtney,
> 
> When he described a spiltter to the office, he was talking about moca since Ethernet splitters do not exist unless you call them switches.
> 
> ...


He's attempt to connect the Mini#2 in the office over MoCA. I'm guessing you read me comment about Mini#2 Not connected via MoCA and assumed I meant not Attempting to connect via MoCA. So, I did mean splitter ;-)

I've edited it to make sure it's clear.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

I ended up giving up on the Moca, and went with a Wifi Range Extender. Ten minutes and its working great! Thanks for all the help, everyone. I appreciate all the advice.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Philosofy said:


> I ended up giving up on the Moca, and went with a Wifi Range Extender. Ten minutes and its working great! Thanks for all the help, everyone. I appreciate all the advice.


Which one did you use?


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Philosofy said:


> I ended up giving up on the Moca, and went with a Wifi Range Extender. Ten minutes and its working great! Thanks for all the help, everyone. I appreciate all the advice.


*shrug* I think you'd have gotten better performance from a powerline adapter, but I won't beat that dead horse


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## jim1971 (Oct 11, 2015)

Philosofy said:


> I ended up giving up on the Moca, and went with a Wifi Range Extender. Ten minutes and its working great! Thanks for all the help, everyone. I appreciate all the advice.


Good for you.

I didn't mention a wireless range extender because they cut your wireless speed in half as a matter of design. Wireless bridges don't do this but they're a little harder to configure. Cutting wireless speed in half is not an issue for some because they're not using maximum throughput anyway. I do so it would be an issue for me. Best wishes.


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