# Tuning Adapter reboot?



## Surrealone (Dec 8, 2006)

It seems like I need to reboot my tuning adapters(3)more now a days then after I first got them. Anything I can to fix this?


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## RJV (Sep 4, 2003)

I feel your pain. I finally put the tuning adapter power on an X10 controller and have programmed it to reboot/reconnect early in the morning every day; Because of my particular recording and sleeping habits, there has been no penalty (so far) and I haven't lost a station in about 6 months. Sorry for not having a "1st principles" solution for your problem, but thought I'd offer where I ended up after swapping boxes and seeing Time Warner guys way too much.


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## Surrealone (Dec 8, 2006)

RJV said:


> I feel your pain. I finally put the tuning adapter power on an X10 controller and have programmed it to reboot/reconnect early in the morning every day; Because of my particular recording and sleeping habits, there has been no penalty (so far) and I haven't lost a station in about 6 months. Sorry for not having a "1st principles" solution for your problem, but thought I'd offer where I ended up after swapping boxes and seeing Time Warner guys way too much.


Well at least I'm not the only one. Thank you


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Might get more responses with this in the right forum. I moved to S3 forum, since that's what your profile says you have. If it's wrong and you'd rather it be in the Premiere forum let me know.

Dan


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Seems unlikely you would have 3 failing TA's, so it's probably a signal problem. Your signals could be weak or the cable plant could be sending you spurious reboot signals. To check signal levels go into TA diagnostics ... Status Summary ... Next Page. The RDC level should be be 40 - 50 dBmV and the FDC level should be -5 to +5 dBmV. (Applies to each TA). If levels are outside these ranges you could ask your Cable Co to check your levels, I believe short fluctuations of signals can cause the TA to reboot as it temporarily loses communication, so look for variations. Also if there are splitters inside the house, they could be replaced as well as tightening cable connectors. Note you need to use high quality 1 GHz splitters. If these signal levels are good, it's probably spurious reset signals being sent by the cable plant, and it might help to complain about that.


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## Surrealone (Dec 8, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> Might get more responses with this in the right forum. I moved to S3 forum, since that's what your profile says you have. If it's wrong and you'd rather it be in the Premiere forum let me know.
> 
> Dan


I did have a hard time trying to figure out where to post I have S3's and S4
But Thank You



dlfl said:


> Seems unlikely you would have 3 failing TA's, so it's probably a signal problem. Your signals could be weak or the cable plant could be sending you spurious reboot signals. To check signal levels go into TA diagnostics ... Status Summary ... Next Page. The RDC level should be be 40 - 50 dBmV and the FDC level should be -5 to +5 dBmV. (Applies to each TA). If levels are outside these ranges you could ask your Cable Co to check your levels, I believe short fluctuations of signals can cause the TA to reboot as it temporarily loses communication, so look for variations. Also if there are splitters inside the house, they could be replaced as well as tightening cable connectors. Note you need to use high quality 1 GHz splitters. If these signal levels are good, it's probably spurious reset signals being sent by the cable plant, and it might help to complain about that.


I kind of had a feeling this might be the problem I have added a MoCa Network and I do have good 1Ghz splitters I also have a POE filter where the cable comes into my home and I think all of this has added to a weak signal. Now thanks to you I know where and what to look for. Big :up: to you
I will say changing from WiFi then to powerline and now MoCa my speeds are WAYYYYYYY better and now I can use my new TiVo Stream thats on the way Sept 5th


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## pmiranda (Feb 12, 2003)

While its always wise to make sure your signal levels are good, both my TAs stop tuning every month or two and everything goes back to normal a few minutes after power cycling them. Both my S3 and Premiere have the same issue at the same time. I think TW screws something up periodically or there's a firmware bug leaking memory or something like that.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

You should put them on a timer and have them power off and back on every night at like 3:00am.

Dan


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## Surrealone (Dec 8, 2006)

Thank you all for the good tips I'm goingto try all the above.


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## Beernutts (Jul 16, 2010)

Surrealone said:


> It seems like I need to reboot my tuning adapters(3)more now a days then after I first got them. Anything I can to fix this?


What kind of TA do you have, Motorola or Cisco?


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## Surrealone (Dec 8, 2006)

Motorola


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## OneAn9ryN00b (Sep 22, 2012)

Sorry. Posted Wrong Forum


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## rcoates777 (Jun 29, 2005)

I am a new TWC customer in NC and it's my first time with a Tuning Adapter. I'm logging how often it reboots - trying to find a pattern. Last time it went 4 days. The main problem is that if something is recording then it gets interrupted and you get nothing for that show after the interruption.

The TA has a myriad of diagnostics. It'd be nice if they logged the reason for the reboot - low signal, command from headend, AC power loss, etc.

Anybody else had success resolving these spurious reboots?

Thanks!

Bob


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

See post #5 in this thread. The TA and TWC's poor support for it may drive you crazy.


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## Teeps (Aug 16, 2001)

rcoates777 said:


> Anybody else had success resolving these spurious reboots?


FIOS?


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

rcoates777 said:


> I am a new TWC customer in NC and it's my first time with a Tuning Adapter. I'm logging how often it reboots - trying to find a pattern. Last time it went 4 days. The main problem is that if something is recording then it gets interrupted and you get nothing for that show after the interruption.
> 
> The TA has a myriad of diagnostics. It'd be nice if they logged the reason for the reboot - low signal, command from headend, AC power loss, etc.
> 
> ...


You might consider the lamp timer trick where you power it down for a while in the middle of the night.

Essentially forcing a reboot before it does it on its own.

Somewhere towards the end of the (currently) 23 pages in this thread

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=472857

it is discussed in the context of allowing the TiVo to complete Garbage Collection.


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## rcoates777 (Jun 29, 2005)

Teeps -



Teeps said:


> FIOS?


Would that FiOS were an option here in 28374. I had to leave FiOS when I moved and it worked very well.

Century Link is the other option here but it has Direct TV as the cable offering and I didn't want to go that route.

Bob


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## rcoates777 (Jun 29, 2005)

So I've been logging my TA reboots. First it went 4 days, then 3.5 days , then 1 day and only about 14 hours today. Is there a pattern here?

Tonight it rebooted about 4 times within a 30 minute period. I called the Cable Card & TA hotline and was on hold for about 50 minutes and then got disconnected. AAArrrgggghhh !!!

I don't think putting the TA on a timer would help since it rebooted so many times in such a brief period. Seems like each reboot should have given it a fresh start. I was not changing channels when it rebooted. I'll just be watching a prerecorded show & get a TiVo screen announcing "Tuning Adapter Connected" and then the green light starts blinking on the TA. About 2 minutes later I get the same message when the light stops. Anything being recorded gets stopped. 

This was the first time I'd witnessed the reboots in a while. Normally I learn about it from looking at the TA diagnostics. So I can't really say if those reboots came in spurts or not. It sure would be nice if the TA stored the reason for the reboot.

Maybe I'll kill some time tomorrow and call the Hot Line again. I would think that after all this time TWC would be able to figure this out & fix it.

Thanks for listening - if I have any success I'll post results.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

So, again, I suggest looking at my post #5 in this thread. What are the numbers for FDC and RDC? If these are out of spec you are going to have problems for sure and you need to get your cable co to address the signal issues. You may have trouble finding someone who knows what those TA numbers mean -- but you need to insist. The national cable card hotline SHOULD be able to help but ????


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## rcoates777 (Jun 29, 2005)

dlfl -

My signal numbers seem fairly consistent - not much fluctuation. right now they are:

Tuner -8 dbmV
FDC -6 dbmV
RDC 39 dbmv

Normally I'd say they are -7, -7 and 40 respectively.

It's been a little more humid the last couple of days so I'm wondering if that is contributing. Of course it's not possible to know what the signal strength is at the time of the reboot.

*** UPDATE ***

Just got off the phone with the call center guy. No breakthroughs. He said he doesn't have many calls on TA reboots. He said signal strength should be +/- 7 for FDC and 35-55 for RDC.

I moved unit from on top of TiVo to see if it might be a heat issue. The top of the TiVo is not even warm but now the TA has good airflow beneath it.

If problem persists I'll probably swap the TA for another one. I'm grasping at straws here.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

I'm still suspicious of a low signal problem. I think the limits the "call center" guy gave you are somewhat optimistic. BTW is that the national center, at 866-532-2598 ? Your FDC is low enough to be questionable IMHO. I suspect there are occasional droops that cause your TA to drop out. Also your Tuner level is kind of low -- -2 to +2 dBm is more typical.

Go into DVR diagnostics for a few different channels and note the Signal Strength and SNR. While you're there check RS errors. Are they zero? Signal strength should be 80 or above for most channels.


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## rcoates777 (Jun 29, 2005)

Yes, that is the telephone # that I used.

I will check the other numbers and report back later. Do YOU have a tuning adapter?

I have read (someplace) that some people hook up their TA & TiVo in parallel rather than in series. This would involve a 3-way splitter rather than my current 2-way. (I've got modem/telephony on the other leg). I would NOT think that would help my signal strength but something else to try if all else fails.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Oh yeah, I have a TA, bless its evil soul! I learned what I know as a defense mechanism. I've never had the frequent random disconnects that you're having. I do lose some or all of my SDV channels every 2 to 4 weeks and have to power-cycle the TA and restart my TiVo. For the first year I had my TA, it lost authorization (stopped working) every month requiring me to call in and have them authorize it again. Authorization was supposed to happen automatically but they didn't have that working. There was never any cogent explanation of the problem -- it just got fixed somehow.

Which makes me think: Look in TA diagnostics ... PowerKEY Information ... 3rd page ... Sub Expires. This gives you the exact date and time your authorization expires.


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## rcoates777 (Jun 29, 2005)

I had another reboot last night - almost 24 hours after the previous one.

The TA diagnostics still show the following values fairly consistently:
Tuner -8 dBmV
FDC -6 dBmV
RDC 42 dBmV

My subscription is due to expire: 0105.022800 - not exactly sure how to interpret that date.

Channel signal strengths are in the 75 to 100 range
SNRs were 33 - 36 for the few I sampled

I saw RS uncorrected = 367 and corrected = 225. I think these may be kept on a per channel basis. 

If time permits I am thinking of disconnecting the coax into the TA (the ultimate in low signal) and seeing if it causes the disconnect problems that I am seeing. I do think that you are correct in that the problems are coming from a temporary low signal.

And thanks for your help!


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Your TA sub expires date is 1/05 at 2:28 am. For my system the times are in local time. Ironically, when I checked my sub expire date it was 20 minutes past midnight tonight (1208002000) which is alarming and not typical for my system. I may have a problem to deal with it appears. Usually this date is 20 to 30 days in the future when things are working right -- as in your case.

I should have mentioned that when your sub expires, the TA light will blink a repeated 8-blink-pause sequence. I've watched this start in the past at exactly the time, to the second, indicated by the sub expires date.

Your DVR diagnostic numbers don't look bad -- fairly typical. I rarely see RS error counts greater than zero on a cable channel but the numbers you see, assuming they aren't climbing rapidly, don't indicate a major problem.


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## rcoates777 (Jun 29, 2005)

Since it's a slow day here & I have nothing scheduled to record I thought I'd try a couple of things.

1) I undid the coax input to the TA. Naturally I lost the picture (and got "searching for signal" msg.) But when I plugged it back in a minute later everything was fine. I got no "Tuning Adapter Connected" messages and no TA reboots. There were a lot of RS errors (both corrected and uncorrected) from the TiVo diagnostics as would be expected. No blinking green light.

2) I unplugged the USB cable between the TA and TiVo. I got a "Tuning Adapter Missing" message. The green light on the TA started to blink but no discernible pattern. When I plugged it back in the blinking stopped and everything was fine. The TA did not reboot.

Given the fact that physically unplugging the coax did not cause a TA reboot I am thinking that my reboots are not related to low signal or sporadic dropouts.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

That seems logical. That your TWC system is sending spurious reboot signals would not surprise me at all. They can send a signal that reboots your TA.

BTW, the normal TA blink sequence when the USB is disconnected is a repeated 6-blink-pause sequence. That exhausts my knowledge about blink sequences.

Good luck. I would hammer on TWC support. Have you asked for Tier 3 support at your local TWC? Tell them their system is sending spurious TA reboot signals and request to speak to someone who knows what that means.

Also, are you getting loss of service credits? In my system they won't give such credit unless you let them schedule a service call (whether it makes sense or not). If my TA does lose auth tonight I'm immediately going to set up a service call because of that policy. If they somehow get my TA re-auth'ed quickly I'll cancel the truck roll.


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## rcoates777 (Jun 29, 2005)

dlfl -

Yup, I agree that there are some reboot hits being sent from the TWC headend. I'm guessing that normally these reboot requests are targeted to a particular MAC address. If I get a new TA it'll have a different address so maybe it won't be affected. But I also bet there there is a broadcast mode where every TA on the line gets the reboot.

I wish I had the knowledge and equipment to put some sort of sniffer on the line to log this activity. But I don't.

Do you have any idea how big an area a headend covers or how many customers would be connected?

I did confirm that I also get the 6-blink sequence that you describe when I unplug the USB cable. When I get the reboot problem it just blinks on/off for about 90 seconds.

Trying to be respectful here but most of the local TWC techs have very little TiVo experience. The first 3 guys showed up without a cable card despite my being very specific about that being required. I did run into a guy in the local office who knew his stuff so somehow I'm going to have to find out how to get in touch with him. I'm not familiar with Tier 3 support or even service credits. I need an annoyance credit !

But at least I have more confidence since my recent experiments that it is not a signal strength issue.

Good luck with your subscription expiration!


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## rcoates777 (Jun 29, 2005)

My TA continues to reboot - about once a day - sometimes more, sometimes less. Yesterday (Mon.) it happened twice. Normally I don't see any real pattern but last night's reboot was at 11:07 PM and on Friday it was also at *exactly* 11:07 PM. Hmmmmm. That could be a coincidence but maybe not. I'll start logging the seconds also in addition to just HH:MM.

I still feel that the reboots are caused by an explicit command from the TWC headend - just hard to prove. Since (I believe) the TA only receives inputs from the modem's coax (not the TiVo's) and the USB cable from the TiVo I would like to disconnect both of those for an extended period and see if the TA stays up. But I'm not willing to lose all my ability to record.

My strategy is as follows - feel free to chime in:


contact the local TWC supervisor who knows his stuff
swap TA boxes - hoping that with a different MAC address this problem will clear up (or if it is some internal reboot associated with that box)


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Both your planned elements are worthwhile but especially contacting the supervisor who knows his stuff. If you have direct access to such a person, you are WAY ahead of the normal customer!

Sadly, the technicians that are sent to your house usually don't have the knowledge or instrumentation to debug infrequent signals that may be your problem.


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## rcoates777 (Jun 29, 2005)

DLFL -

Would that I had direct access to the supervisor with whom I met once at the local TWC office but I don't. I do have good rapport with one of the counter women at the local office. I am going to try to get her to get me a number for him and barring that my plan is to write a note to him and have her pass it to him when he's in the office.

Even the phone # for the local office usually has me talking to someone in the Philippines.

I wish I had the special direct # of the CableCard/TA hotline that the techs use that would allow me to "jump the queue" rather than be on hold forever.

So what do you think of the fact that my TA rebooted at the exact same time as it did 2 days before?


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

I have the same thoughts as you. Your whole problem is new territory to me.

I usually get a Philippines CSR when I call about an internet problem but not for cable TV issues. 

Do you have the TWC national cable card help desk number?
866-532-2598
Don't hesitate to call them -- they talk directly to customers. For some systems they can actually look at your account and send signals.


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## rcoates777 (Jun 29, 2005)

I am trying to be pragmatic about getting my TA reboot issues resolved. There are threads on this going back years that have never reached a satisfactory conclusion. It seems like if Cisco or a cable company or TiVo put somebody on this they could figure it out in a couple of days.

The biggest annoyance for me is having the TA reboot during a recording and having that recording terminate prematurely.

Most of the channels that I watch in central NC are NOT SDV. So I can get along most of the time without the TA. But IF the TA reboots it will terminate any current show(s) being recorded. It is also a pain if you are watching a prerecorded show and a reboot occurs since you have to manually position back to the point where your viewing was interrupted.

My current MO is to leave the USB cable disconnected except for when I need to watch an SDV channel. There are only 2 that I watch and not all that often. When a TA reboot occurs the TiVo will not be aware of it with the USB cable unplugged.

Not elegant but it does provide some peace of mind in that it prevents interruption of shows being recorded.


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## rcoates777 (Jun 29, 2005)

So far my plan of leaving the USB cable unplugged (except for when I need to watch one of my few SDV channels) seems to be a viable workaround. I have verified a few points:


the TA will still reboot even with the USB cable unplugged. That tells me that the cause of the reboot is not the TiVo
a recording will be stopped whenever the USB connection is lost OR reestablished. (This loss & reestablishment occurs during the TA reboot.) The recording will NOT automatically resume.
the reestablishment of the USB connection does not prevent future recordings from taking place
with the USB unplugged one cannot get into the TA diagnostics to check the last TA reboot date/time


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## rcoates777 (Jun 29, 2005)

I had an interesting episode recently. I could not get the Guide info to clear no matter what I did. I could navigate within it just fine but when I hit CLEAR it would just stay there. I tried everything short of pulling the plug.

I didn't want to spend 10 minutes rebooting so I plugged in my TA (normally unplugged - see earlier posts) and got the Tuning Adapter Connected msg and the Guide info cleared.

So the TA is providing me a benefit after all.


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## stepbill (Dec 4, 2013)

Just curious if you can use your tivo without the tuning adapter. I don't really really watch the channels that you need the adapter for. I live in Aberdeen, right next door.


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## rcoates777 (Jun 29, 2005)

stepbill said:


> Just curious if you can use your tivo without the tuning adapter. I don't really really watch the channels that you need the adapter for. I live in Aberdeen, right next door.


Bill -

Yes, you can use your TiVo without the tuning adapter and you will get all the regular channels just fine. I often leave the connection (USB) between the TiVo and TA unplugged unless I need to watch a show on one of the 2 or 3 channels that requires it. If it is connected and the TA reboots in the middle of something you are recording then the recording stops - even if it's a channel not requiring the TA. And if you are watching a prerecorded show and the TA reboots you have to restart your show from the beginning and FF to the point of interruption.

Good luck!

Bob


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## Andy D (Feb 1, 2008)

I have 2 Cisco TA's on 2 Premieres sitting right next to each other. It seens that once very3 to 4 weeks on or the other TA's will just go into a blink mode and require a PO reboot. So fr I have not had both need a reboot at be same time.

From reading this I guess there no real solution. The timer option would not work for me a I often record shows in the middle of the night while I sleep. Cisco or Charter needs to find a permenant solution so these things do not need to be rebooted.

Andy


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## rcoates777 (Jun 29, 2005)

I replaced my TA and (knock wood) this seems to have resolved my frequent TA reboot issues. I really didn't think that would help.

While I was out of town my wife signed us up for $3/mo. Showtime offer from TWC. Good deal except that we get no picture! Calling TWC CS results in their sending out some signal which does nothing. I'm assuming that the signal they send is to the cable card and that this is supposed to enable the reception of this premium channel. Would the cable card hot line perhaps yield better results?


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

I would have called the national desk before even posting. This sounds like an account provisioning issue, i.e., they haven't entered the correct channel authorizations at the head end (translated: central office). If that's the problem no amount of sending signals or truck rolls will fix it. Just the right few keystrokes is what is needed.


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## rcoates777 (Jun 29, 2005)

I just got off the line with the Cable Card National Hot Line. My man, Joe, fixed things very quickly. He said that the process of getting my new channel (SHOW) had started but not completed. He added the missing information and we were quickly up & running. Plus there was only about 15 seconds of my being on hold. These guys are much better than the standard TWC 800 #. Keeping my fingers crossed.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Sleep well ... your local cable experts are right on top of things.


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## andriusb (Mar 28, 2014)

what kind of tuner did you get? I have a Cisco from Time Warner and the only problems I get is when they decide to change the entire channel lineup like they did a few weeks ago.


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## rcoates777 (Jun 29, 2005)

andriusb said:


> what kind of tuner did you get? I have a Cisco from Time Warner and the only problems I get is when they decide to change the entire channel lineup like they did a few weeks ago.


I got a Cisco STA 1520 - same model as I had before. 16 days without a reboot but who's counting? I am quite sure that I am not getting nearly the amount of pixelation that I used to. I don't know the architecture well enough to know if that could have been improved by the new TA but I'll take it.


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