# Parental controls issue?



## jscozz (Sep 28, 2002)

I have written other thread about the lack of flexibility in the parental controls. Now I am wondering if there is a back door I don't know about... I have two Tivos, both with Parental controls set, rating limits set, channels blocked.

I noticed a few days ago that on both units (one HD and one S3) that all limits had been removed... I figured that my teenager probably went in and removed them, when PC was disabled some time... (whenever we need to transfer even an approved show from one to the other we have to enter the code, and unless we go through the menus and reenable it, it is open for 4 hours or more), so 3 days ago I reset them all, enabled PC, channel blocks, rating limits and changed passwords.

Now 3 days later, when my wife and I KNOW we have never entered the code, all rating limits are gone on one unit, PC is off and the auto reenable is also off.

Is there any bug with Tivo where these settings get lost on power failure... or any loophole I am missing here that is causing this? I find it hard to believe that my teenager figured out the new code in less than a day.


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## jscozz (Sep 28, 2002)

No responses... so am I to assume he is sitting there cycling through 10,000 codes until he finds the right one? Sure would be nice if Tivo had xome kind of 4 tries and you are locked out, at least...


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## oViTynoT (May 18, 2007)

Heheh... Or he's got you figured out! 

It CAN be turned off / reset if you (or SOMEONE) calls Tivo Customer Support. Call them back and see if they've logged any calls.


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## jscozz (Sep 28, 2002)

Nope... he was not cycling through the codes... I figured out what he is doing... and I am EXTREMELY surprised that it has not been reported before!

Believe it or not, there is a glaring hole in the Parental Controls security... basically, if this hole is found (and it is not hidden) the parental controls are useless and any program can be viewed (live or in list) or recorded.

I am not going to post the details... I reported it to Tivo... who claims it was unknown until today... still, very hard to believe.

The only reason I am posting it here is for any parents who, like me, assume that when I set parental limits and lock the Tivo, that it is actually locked! Until Tivo fixes this, you may want to make sure that your kids don't already know about it.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

So how'd you get your kid to confess he was watching something he shouldn't be?


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## jscozz (Sep 28, 2002)

No confession... I DVR'ed the composite output on the Tivo... played back the entire process.


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## oViTynoT (May 18, 2007)

Whoa. Interesting.

You need to tell TiVo that you will publish the process on this forum after October 7 (or some reasonable date.)

I work alongside our IT Security folks in my corporation; that's _de regueur_ in the White Hat culture, and puts the spurs to the supplier to correct the issue before it goes public....


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## jscozz (Sep 28, 2002)

I asked for a call back to let me know what software release it will be corrected in. I figured I will check back in a few days. If I get no confidence it is being addressed I guess I will have to think about how to make them understand how critical this is to parents.


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## jscozz (Sep 28, 2002)

I am really surprised at how little comment this thread has gotten... we don't have any pay channels, but there is still enough R and MA junk on regular cable that I am pissed my kids have had access to it when I was lead to believe by Tivo, it was secure. I would think that families with pay channels would be even a little more upset. I wonder how many kids out there are flipping through the porn channels without their parents knowing about it.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

jscozz said:


> I am not going to post the details... I reported it to Tivo... who claims it was unknown until today... still, very hard to believe.
> Until Tivo fixes this, you may want to make sure that your kids don't already know about it.


How am I supposed to make sure my kids don't already know about the hack if I don't know what that hack is?

Do you plan to reveal the hack after Tivo fixes it?


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## jscozz (Sep 28, 2002)

See your PM.

I would not even call it a hack! Nothing secret or hidden about it.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Yeah, don't reveal that until Tivo fixes it.


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## E94Allen (Oct 16, 2005)

I am wondering if this bug u mentioned has been introduced by recent update like 11.0 or is it always been there unknowing since day one when TiVo added the KidZone?


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## jscozz (Sep 28, 2002)

That's a good question. I only know that I started becoming aware of it a few months ago.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

jscozz said:


> See your PM.
> 
> I would not even call it a hack! Nothing secret or hidden about it.


Interesting...
I tried your ''hack'', and the Tivo asks for my password if I try to make any changes.
So, either Tivo already fixed it, or it's an isolated problem with your machine?
Have you tried a reboot?


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## jjcool (Sep 24, 2009)

Without knowing what the "hack" is, there really cant be much of a discussion about it.


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## jscozz (Sep 28, 2002)

I see it on both of my boxes (S3 and HD) and the Tivo rep I spoke to saw it on his box also...


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## jscozz (Sep 28, 2002)

OK... after a week with no call from Tivo, I called them again to get an update. Last time I was told it was previously unreported and unknown. This time I am told that it WAS previously known, and supposedly fixed last January... but it appears it was not fixed. What concerns me is that it was supposed too have been fixed 10 months ago... and to this day is still not fixed. That does not make me feel good that it will be addressed in a timely manner by Tivo... and leaves wide open programs that my wife and I don't want our kids to see... but at least for us, we know about the issue. I am sure there are thousands of parents who think they are protecting their kids, but in fact, their kids have complete access to R, MA, porn, etc. So, now I feel it is more important to make sure parents know about the issue and pressure Tivo to get it fixed.

I am very surprised at how Tivo would not consider this a significant enough issue to make sure it was fixed. Hard to believe that they would risk losing the confidence of their users who are parents with young kids.

I have the issue with both of my Tivos... the two Tivo reps I spoke to saw it on their test boxes... but one person here said they did not have the issue... so, to see how widespread it is, and to may be put some pressure on Tivo to fix it right, immediately, I'd like to have people test their box and see if they have the issue... please indicate Tivo model, software version and whether you have the issue or not.

For me:
Tivo S3, version 11.0d-01-2-648, YES-Has issue
Tivo HD, version 11.0d-01-2-652, YES-Has issue

How to test:
1) Make sure you have parental controls set-up and turned on
2) On Tivo menu, Go to settings, Parental controls. DO NOT ENTER YOUR CODE. You should be presented with the screen to enter your 4-digit code. DO NOT ENTER YOUR CODE. This is only to confirm that parental controls are enabled and on.
3) Left arrow out of that screen.
4) Go to live TV
5) Hit Info button
6) Down arrow to lock icon (should indicate LOCKED status; closed lock)
7) Press Select
8) If you have the bug you should now be in the Parental controls screen, without having to enter any 4-digit code, and able to modify all settings. The top line will in fact still indicate that Parental Controls are ON... but here you are... able to turn all settings off.

Please try this and post the results... hopefully we will find out how widespread this is as well as light a fire under Tivo to get it fixed.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I figured out what I didn't do before.

Once you're in, go directly to Ratings Settings, Channel locks, or Auto Re-lock.
That is where every thing can be modified.


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## J5cents (Jan 6, 2006)

very interesting...I will have to check this once I get home. I came here to check on how to get PC for the youtube...and it appears there isn't. I feel there is more objectionable vids on youtube than regular cable and it should either be subject to PC or have the ability to turn it off.


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## jscozz (Sep 28, 2002)

J5cents,

I COMPLETELY agree! I think Tivo is dropping the ball big time on parental controls all together. I have other threads where I documented my main issues:
1) PC bug from this thread
2) No PC for youtube
3) Must enter code to transfer shows form another DVR, even if it is within the rating limits on the viewing DVR.
4) Should be a way to override PC for a single show while leaving the unit PC locked for everything else.
5) Should be a way to change the 4 hour re-lock, and have an option to make it just based on time, not activity.

Until it has these things, it is NOT secure and NOT appropriate for families with kids... I never thought I'd say this, being a decade long Tivo fan who has gotten his entire family and friends hooked... but I am actually looking at other alternatives for my DVRs because of this.


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## J5cents (Jan 6, 2006)

just did your test...and my HD has the same bug. I hope my teenager doesn't find this thread. 

I'm going to call tivo and file a complaint on Monday.


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## drey (Jul 21, 2008)

This is clearly a bug. Send email to beta coordinator for TiVo. PM for his contact info.

On the side note, jscozz, as you probably saw there were not too many replies to your original thread. Why are you posting this again? Yes, it is a bug but it does not affect that many people as you may think since it it is tricky to figure out. This is similar to security issue in Windows, yes it is bad but there is no need to run and scream around about it. Tell to the people who can make it work.

Calling support thousand times won't help anything as they don't care. As I mentioned above, send email to beta coordinator and move on. Thanks for noticing and reporting it.


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## oViTynoT (May 18, 2007)

drey said:


> ... it is a bug but it does not affect that many people as you may think since it it is tricky to figure out.


All they have to do is Google "TiVo Parental Controls Hack" and they're gonna get their answer now.

Not so tricky, and no one has to figure it out anymore... And it affects anyone who is trying to limit children's' access to inappropriate content...

(http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...4&q=tivo+parental+controls+hack&aq=f&oq=&aqi=)

See Hit #2.


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## drey (Jul 21, 2008)

oViTynoT said:


> All they have to do is Google "TiVo Parental Controls Hack" and they're gonna get their answer now.
> 
> Not so tricky, and no one has to figure it out anymore... And it affects anyone who is trying to limit children's' access to inappropriate content...
> 
> ...


This points to this thread. Yes, so?

As I said, OP just needs to email to people who can get the fix. Screaming on public forums and posting multiple threads will get the attention OP wants, but not the result.


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## hiker (Nov 29, 2001)

I could recreate this problem on S3 ver 11.0d but could not recreate the problem on DirecTV TiVo HR10 ver 6.4a.

The S3 prompts for the code just to get to the Settings menu and the HR10 does not. My guess is that whenever they implemented the prompt for the Settings menu, they introduced the bug.


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## jscozz (Sep 28, 2002)

Back in Oct I corresponded with the Tivo Beta coordinator who confirmed they know about this issue... but could not disclose to me any info about future releases... Three months have passed... no Tivo update... no fix to the problem.

Does anyone know when the next software update is expected?


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## drey (Jul 21, 2008)

jscozz said:


> Back in Oct I corresponded with the Tivo Beta coordinator who confirmed they know about this issue... but could not disclose to me any info about future releases... Three months have passed... no Tivo update... no fix to the problem.
> 
> Does anyone know when the next software update is expected?


nobody besides TiVo knows, sorry.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

jscozz said:


> Back in Oct I corresponded with the Tivo Beta coordinator who confirmed they know about this issue... but could not disclose to me any info about future releases... Three months have passed... no Tivo update... no fix to the problem.
> 
> Does anyone know when the next software update is expected?


It's a month or two overdue, given their normal schedule. I'm hoping it should be soon, now that they apparently have a fix for the TiVO HDXL soft-rebooting problem (other threads). Without that HDXL fix, a general software update would have frozen all the new HDXLs that had the inappropriate disks.


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## SarahGrace (Oct 9, 2010)

I just tested this on my Series 2 and our HD, got through both of them. This is unreal that this has been a known issue for a year & it is still a problem? The folks at Tivo must not have little ones at home.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

This bug has been fixed with the 11.0j software update.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

steve614 said:


> This bug has been fixed with the 11.0j software update.


A mere 13 months after this thread was created. Most government bureaucracies can react faster than that.


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## oViTynoT (May 18, 2007)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> A mere 13 months after this thread was created. Most government bureaucracies can react faster than that.


Heh. You really live in Oregon?


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