# Acronis True Image and Cloning TiVo Hard Drive



## phaedruspress (Mar 28, 2014)

Has anyone ever removed the hard drive and used a docking station and Acronis True Image to clone (back-up) their hard drive to another formatted empty hard drive and subsequently been able to swap hard drives if the need should arise? TIA.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Not going to work, Acronis doesn't know how to deal with the file system
The existing Tivo tools like DVRBARS and WinMFS and Linux tools like DD will do the job for you.

Feel free to look around the forums a bit more, it's pretty well covered in any hard drive upgrade thread.


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## BH9244 (Feb 10, 2009)

Although I haven't done it myself I think it would be successful in a stand-alone dual drive dock that does a track by track copy hardware supported by the dock itself unconnected to a PC.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

dianebrat said:


> Not going to work, Acronis doesn't know how to deal with the file system
> The existing Tivo tools like DVRBARS and WinMFS and Linux tools like DD will do the job for you.
> 
> Feel free to look around the forums a bit more, it's pretty well covered in any hard drive upgrade thread.


I once thought that Acronis had an option to copy a drive of arbitrary format, but you're right, it doesn't. One specific option I would consider for cloning a drive is ddrescue as found on the Ubuntu Rescue Remix CD.


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## GBL (Apr 20, 2000)

dianebrat said:


> Not going to work, Acronis doesn't know how to deal with the file system
> The existing Tivo tools like DVRBARS and WinMFS and Linux tools like DD will do the job for you.
> 
> Feel free to look around the forums a bit more, it's pretty well covered in any hard drive upgrade thread.





L David Matheny said:


> I once thought that Acronis had an option to copy a drive of arbitrary format, but you're right, it doesn't. One specific option I would consider for cloning a drive is ddrescue as found on the Ubuntu Rescue Remix CD.


It actually depends on which version of Acronis True Image you are trying to use; Acronis appears to come out with a "new" version every year (and encourages users to "upgrade" for a "small" fee).

For example, with my 2011 version (see below) I have to option of doing a complete, all sector backup by selecting "back up sector-by-sector" and "backup unallocated space". I see no reason why that wouldn't work with any hard drive including TiVo. However, I'd never do it that way since it would take a really long time and the image probably would be quite large and better tools, already mentioned, are available.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

GBL said:


> It actually depends on which version of Acronis True Image you are trying to use; Acronis appears to come out with a "new" version every year (and encourages users to "upgrade" for a "small" fee).
> 
> For example, with my 2011 version (see below) I have to option of doing a complete, all sector backup by selecting "back up sector-by-sector" and "backup unallocated space". I see no reason why that wouldn't work with any hard drive including TiVo. However, I'd never do it that way since it would take a really long time and the image probably would be quite large and better tools, already mentioned, are available.


Your version of Acronis may be newer than any I have used, but I seem to recall similar "sector-by-sector" language in the menus of the versions I used, which is why I thought it might work. But now I'm pretty sure Diane is right about Acronis not handling arbitrarily formatted (or unformatted) drives. If you have time, try it, and let us know what Acronis does with a TiVo drive as its source.


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## telemark (Nov 12, 2013)

You might want to post the size of drive and model of Tivo you're trying to backup.

Many older USB docks has maximum size limitations.

Otherwise, a sector to sector backup will generally work but if the drive is large, might take an inordinate time.

Tivo aware backup software can skip the videos which will cut the backup time to just a few minutes.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

I have used dd for such things in the past (since I use Linux, of course). DD is a raw bit copy, so it doesn't matter what is on the drive. But the main disadvantage of that is the image size will be extremely huge (same size as the whole drive) and take a very long time. It can be compressed, but that will take a long time too (I do suggest piping it through gzip on the fly rather than waiting until afterward).

Another similar option is to use a cloning docking station and clone the drive to another drive. But it has to be at least as big, and if it is not identical, there is no guarantee it will restore properly later. For identical drives it works very well- it is no slower than "dd" but easy. Of course, it means you have to buy more stuff.

I have used Acronis True Image many times (just the bootable Linux CD version, since the install version requires MS-Windows) and it has the ability to do quite a bit, but it is hard to know if their "sector by sector" option would actually do the job. Even if it did- it will likely have the same limitations of using "dd".

Since it is very unlikely anyone would want to backup the actual VIDEO files on the drive (typically the purpose of backing up the TiVo drive is to have a working, bootable spare, and with all your setting and such), if you can find a utility that is specific for TiVo drives, you might have a much better experience.


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## phaedruspress (Mar 28, 2014)

crxssi said:


> Another similar option is to use a cloning docking station and clone the drive to another drive.


snip

That's what I said I wanted to do in my post that is to clone the drive using a usb docking station to hook up to the notebook. I want to include the content and make an identical drive in the unlikelihood that for some reason the original drive goes south. Don't care how long it takes. I know nothing about Linux but I know how to download a live cd. So you all think that the Linux tools will work better then the Acronis cloning tool? Acronis True Image 2014.


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## telemark (Nov 12, 2013)

All sector-to-sector copies are suppose to do the same thing. There is no difference in function, occasionally there will be a difference in speed.

Some people in this thread are saying the current Acronis doesn't have that mode but 2011 does.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

phaedruspress said:


> That's what I said I wanted to do in my post that is to clone the drive using a usb docking station to hook up to the notebook. I want to include the content and make an identical drive in the unlikelihood that for some reason the original drive goes south.


You don't need a computer when using a cloning docking station. You insert two drives and press one button.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005BCNAWW/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER


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## phaedruspress (Mar 28, 2014)

crxssi said:


> You don't need a computer when using a cloning docking station. You insert two drives and press one button.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005BCNAWW/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER


I have an older docking station from Thermaltake:

https://www.thermaltakeusa.com/storage.aspx

and it does require connectivity to a computer with no external button to push to begin a cloning process. Unless I missed it I only see eject buttons and power buttons on the model at Amazon.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

phaedruspress said:


> I have an older docking station from Thermaltake:
> 
> https://www.thermaltakeusa.com/storage.aspx
> 
> and it does require connectivity to a computer with no external button to push to begin a cloning process. Unless I missed it I only see eject buttons and power buttons on the model at Amazon.


Look a bit closer at the listed item, it clones without a PC, I don't see why you're comparing it to the unit you have that doesn't have the feature, since you're clear yours doesn't.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

phaedruspress said:


> I have an older docking station from Thermaltake: and it does require connectivity to a computer


Yep. So it is not a cloning docking station like I recommended and pointed to on Amazon.

Despite some of the negative reviews on Amazon for that model, I have three of them at work and we use them regularly for cloning many dozens of drives for over a year without a single problem. And we have also used them under Linux as USB mass storage device docks with no problems either.


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## siratfus (Oct 3, 2008)

Acronis is the only software I used to clone my drives when I had the tivohds. Have not tried it with roamios, but for series three, it worked perfectly the two or three times I did it. The destination drive simply has to be larger. Curious why some say it won't work. Possibly different versions out there?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

crxssi said:


> You don't need a computer when using a cloning docking station. You insert two drives and press one button.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005BCNAWW/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER


That looks interesting. I've never seen a dual drive docking station look like that. I like how it expands to allow you to put a second drive in, and then can collapse to look like a single drive docking station. I think I am going to put this on my Amazon Wish List. thanks.


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## P42 (Jan 7, 2003)

phaedruspress said:


> Has anyone ever removed the hard drive and used a docking station and Acronis True Image to clone (back-up) their hard drive to another formatted empty hard drive and subsequently been able to swap hard drives if the need should arise? TIA.


What is your end goal? 


A backup of everything?
A backup of the OS?
A backup of the recordings?
Depending on the goal, there are different paths to take, some are easier then others. Also, the type of Tivo can impact the solution.


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## phaedruspress (Mar 28, 2014)

P42 said:


> What is your end goal?
> 
> 
> A backup of everything?
> ...


A backup of everything (in case original drive craps out. If original drive craps out I want to swap drives and continue as if noting happened) w/ TiVo Roamio basic w/3TB hard drive. How would this configuration impact what you might suggest.


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## P42 (Jan 7, 2003)

With the Roamios the OS is not on the HDD, just the recordings. So when the HDD craps out, just swap in a new one, and you are back in business (after it connects to the mothership and updates etc).

Is there much value in going back to the recordings your Tivo had last month? In otherwords how frequently would you backup the HDD? I don't see you doing it daily  kmttg might be a better option for protecting important recordings.


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## telemark (Nov 12, 2013)

phaedruspress said:


> A backup of everything (in case original drive craps out. If original drive craps out I want to swap drives and continue as if noting happened) w/ TiVo Roamio basic w/3TB hard drive. How would this configuration impact what you might suggest.


You can do that if you want, but to explain what happens...

A full drive backup of 3TB would take 5-8 hours if you can get 100-150MB/s from your dock.

At that point the drives are indistinguishable. After you throw one back into your Tivo, they'll start drifting apart. The more time that goes on, the more different the contents will be. If the drive in the Tivo dies at some point, the one on the shelf could be used, but when you put the spare in, your Tivo will look like what it looked like whenever you did your last cloning.

If you're trying to protect your latest recordings this way, you'll have to run this cloning process more frequently, and it'll take the same several hours each time.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

P42 said:


> With the Roamios the OS is not on the HDD, just the recordings. So when the HDD craps out, just swap in a new one, and you are back in business (after it connects to the mothership and updates etc).


I am not sure that is entirely correct. Aren't all the settings also on the hard drive? The season passes. The channel configurations. Your preferences. Are you saying that ONLY the recordings are on the hard drive?

And will a Roamio really accept a blank hard drive? Does it need to be partitioned? Formatted? Labeled? Blessed?


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## P42 (Jan 7, 2003)

crxssi said:


> I am not sure that is entirely correct. Aren't all the settings also on the hard drive? The season passes. The channel configurations. Your preferences. Are you saying that ONLY the recordings are on the hard drive?


You are correct. It is not just recordings.



crxssi said:


> And will a Roamio really accept a blank hard drive? Does it need to be partitioned? Formatted? Labeled? Blessed?


No blessing required. Don't care if it was you're old Windows HDD. There is a long long thread about this somwhere.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

The most recent, and three previous versions of Acronis TI and Paragon DM, which I have, all support raw sector-by-sector cloning. The catch is that it generally requires making a special bootable CD/DVD to run in that mode.

It was this way as far back as I can recall. The part about having to make a bootable CD/DVD used to be only found in fine print, and it was often nearly impossible to find that info.

Both now have the option for a bootable Linux environment, or a bootable Windows environment, for this.

Unless the resulting CD/DVD loads some drivers to speed up the process, and/or has added drivers for chipsets, resulting in faster transfer speed, or adding compatibility for something like a USB 3.0 to SATA drive dock/adapter, there's little incentive to use these paid programs over the many free "Live CD/DVD" ISOs out there, which include the raw copy tools.

I still use free tools for my TiVos, rather than what I paid for. DVRBARS is the best free run-in-Windows option that I am aware of.


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## A J Ricaud (Jun 25, 2002)

Has anyone tried to clone a Roamio drive using Macrium Reflect free software?:
http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.aspx
I usually use Acronis for cloning in the Windows environment but it wouldn't work in 2 recent instances:

1. I tried cloning my son's laptop drive but got an error that there was insufficient room left on the original (source) drive--Macrium worked perfectly;
2. I tried cloning my wife's 120GB SSD to a 250GB SSD-Acronis 2013 would start the process and quickly quit with an unspecified error, which I couldn't determine--Macrium worked perfectly.

Maybe some adventurous person with available time could try it?


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## phaedruspress (Mar 28, 2014)

telemark said:


> A full drive backup of 3TB would take 5-8 hours if you can get 100-150MB/s from your dock.


snip

That is what night time is for : ). I would be using the clone docking station that I recently was made aware of USB 3.0 and I will probably clone/ back up once a week.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

phaedruspress said:


> snip
> 
> That is what night time is for : ). I would be using the clone docking station that I recently was made aware of USB 3.0 and I will probably clone/ back up once a week.


 Once a week? Isn't that a bit extreme?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

crxssi said:


> I am not sure that is entirely correct. Aren't all the settings also on the hard drive? The season passes. The channel configurations. Your preferences. Are you saying that ONLY the recordings are on the hard drive?
> 
> And will a Roamio really accept a blank hard drive? Does it need to be partitioned? Formatted? Labeled? Blessed?


Only the software is on the internal flash, all other settings and SP and other information is on the hard drive.

Any blank hard drive can be used as a new drive in the Roamio (never tested drives less than 1Tb and greater than 3Tb does requires special treatment), but if it has an old TiVo format on it, that could cause you problems, just do a quick erase and your drive will all set to use in any Roamio.


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## telemark (Nov 12, 2013)

phaedruspress said:


> I will probably clone/ back up once a week.


This has me thinking... I could write a Tivo aware incremental cloner. It would be useful to those running tests to be able to get back to a known state quickly.

It should cut down the time considerably, but by how much will have to be seen.



lessd said:


> if it has an old TiVo format on it, that could cause you problems, just do a quick erase and your drive will all set to use in any Roamio.


I guess an image from a byte swapped model might get recognized as a Roamio disk, which would be very problematic. I don't know how anyone would get those two things to cross, especially if those drives were PATA and small.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

telemark said:


> This has me thinking... I could write a Tivo aware incremental cloner. It would be useful to those running tests to be able to get back to a known state quickly.
> 
> It should cut down the time considerably, but by how much will have to be seen.
> 
> I guess an image from a byte swapped model might get recognized as a Roamio disk, which would be very problematic. I don't know how anyone would get those two things to cross, especially if those drives were PATA and small.


I think if a drive has a TP or TiVo HD image will also give you a problem if you don't erase the drive first before putting the drive into a Roamio. If others have tested this let us know, but for sure a blank or quick erased drive will not have any problems, and few people will move a drive from say a TP to a Roamio. A Roamio formatted drive moved into another Roamio will require a C&D all.


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## telemark (Nov 12, 2013)

I don't have anything older than a Premiere but I've moved their drives to Roamio before, and they end up being reformatted.

The things that don't get reformatted are prior Roamio drives, and hypothetically the old byte-swapped Tivo's would have the same base signatures as a Roamio.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

If moving a drive from any TiVo, to another one, a full read test of the drive is a good idea. There might be bad, or weak, sectors lurking.

Only a full erase of the drive can recover, or reallocate, any pending (questionable) sectors the read test finds, or that might have been flagged while in operation.

Western Digital WinDLG (Data Lifeguard diagnostics for Windows) is a good tool for this, and works on non-WD drives, as well.


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## boyet_m (May 26, 2014)

nooneuknow said:


> If moving a drive from any TiVo, to another one, a full read test of the drive is a good idea. There might be bad, or weak, sectors lurking.
> 
> Only a full erase of the drive can recover, or reallocate, any pending (questionable) sectors the read test finds, or that might have been flagged while in operation.
> 
> Western Digital WinDLG (Data Lifeguard diagnostics for Windows) is a good tool for this, and works on non-WD drives, as well.


i will try this on my next hd upgrade. thanks for the info.


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## Frank Hickman (Oct 15, 2018)

phaedruspress said:


> Has anyone ever removed the hard drive and used a docking station and Acronis True Image to clone (back-up) their hard drive to another formatted empty hard drive and subsequently been able to swap hard drives if the need should arise? TIA.


I do that all the time. Just REMEMBER to use the replacement as the TARGET drive. Also the new drive has to be as big or bigger than the original drive. My 8 tb drive takes about 15 hours to copy, but it's flawless. I DON'T use any programs. Just put the source drive in the right spot and the target in the right place , start it and wait till the lights stop blinking. Don't do anything to the drive. Put them both in the deck start it and wait.


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