# general curiousity



## ame8199 (Nov 23, 2014)

Ok is really just curiosity and maybe I missed some features of Tivo..

Why would someone with cable use Tivo? 

Don't most cable set ups up and packages come with a DVR box? I know with Uverse, all but the basic comes with a DVR...

Just curious why someone with cable runs Tivo..


----------



## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

Most Cable packages DO NOT include a "FREE" DVR, if it appears free, it is just bundled into the price somewhere.

Cox charges $28.50/mo for their 6 Tuner DVR ($99 Pro install is also required for WHDVR, due to MoCA networking of the boxes)
$20.50/mo for a 2 Tuner DVR 
Each additional HD STB is $8.50/mo

The User Interface, experience and features are nowhere near as good as on a TiVo with Minis.


----------



## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

ame8199 said:


> Ok is really just curiosity and maybe I missed some features of Tivo..
> 
> Why would someone with cable use Tivo?
> 
> ...


cable does not include apps like amazon streaming/prime streming/vudu/netfli,youtube.


----------



## AdamNJ (Aug 22, 2013)

In my case, Cablevision's actual physical DVR is an:
- over 10 yr old model
- 80gb hard drive
- 2 tuners
- lots of pixelation / bad signal (All quality issues have gone away since switching to TiVo, so it was the crap hardware, not an actual bad signal) 
- slow as (word for fecal matter)
- no plans for newer hardware models

Cablevision is moving to a "Network DVR model". That's not a true DVR in the standard sense because you have no physical hardware. Everything you are watching is essentially like how OnDemand works, slow response...again on top of slow physical boxes with bad software.

I was ready to get rid of Cablevision the minute that FIOS ever became available (which is likely never), but now I am extremely happy with the service because with the TiVo hardware I have no issues. I used to curse at my cable box daily, but no more.

Everything else, like the built in apps on my Roamio is just icing on the cake.


----------



## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

My DVR from Time Warner Cable was absolute garbage, it only had 2 tuners, was constantly freezing and rebooting, and would store only maybe 20 or 30 hours of HD content. And TWC had the nerver to change me $25/month for it. My Roamio plus is lightyears ahead of the TWC DVR. Even the TiVo Minis work much better than the crappy standard cable boxes TWC was charing me $12/month for. In total, I'm saving about $50/month off my cable bill, and since I bought the TiVos with lifetime service, I will break even in about 24 months total.


----------



## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

Obviously you've never used a TiVo. It is far superior to any cable company box.


----------



## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

For me, I had a Motorola DVR with Cableone. The UI was horrible. You couldn't back out of any menu, you had to start over for everything. And the picture quality on the RF channels was terrible. And the remotes stopped working very often. Truly, a bad experience.

I had owned my own Tivos years ago, so I was familiar with them. So, I replaced the Moto with a TiVo XL with 4 tuners. It came with the cards already installed, and the tech setup the Wi-Fi in no time. And, now I can record 4 shows at the same time, the picture quality on all channels is excellent and the UI is light years better than on the Moto. And searches are a pleasure instead of a chore.

Not to mention, the extra storage capacity on the XL. And the Netflix and Amazon apps.

Plus, I also have a DirecTV with 5 tuners for any conflict problems. 

ETA: With my cableco TiVo, I'm not paying a monthly subscription charge. I'm still paying the same amount as I was for a crappy box and poor pictures.


----------



## ncted (May 13, 2007)

ame8199 said:


> Ok is really just curiosity and maybe I missed some features of Tivo..
> 
> Why would someone with cable use Tivo?
> 
> ...


Sheer desperation for something good rather than horrible at a lower price?


----------



## ame8199 (Nov 23, 2014)

waynomo said:


> Obviously you've never used a TiVo. It is far superior to any cable company box.


Yep, Today is Tivo day 1 for me...but Im on Antenna...

Not looking to great for me right now though. If I'm not hooked up to Tivo I can get all the channels I normally get with the antenna in one spot.

Hooked up to the Tivo...I lose a few channels depending on where the antenna is..


----------



## tricerabottoms (Feb 9, 2013)

I have family with DirectTV boxes. I hate having to use the thing when I visit. It feels clunky compared to a streamlined TiVo. 

Is that a good enough money to invest in a Tivo? Suppose that depends on how much disposable income a person has.


----------



## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

ame8199 said:


> Yep, Today is Tivo day 1 for me...but Im on Antenna...
> 
> Not looking to great for me right now though. If I'm not hooked up to Tivo I can get all the channels I normally get with the antenna in one spot.
> 
> Hooked up to the Tivo...I lose a few channels depending on where the antenna is..


What model do you have (guessing a premiere)? Where are you located?


----------



## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

ame8199 said:


> Hooked up to the Tivo...I lose a few channels depending on where the antenna is..


Buy a bigger antenna. Not more expensive, just bigger. After much trial and error and expense, I ended up using an $33 outdoor antenna in an inside hallway of my first floor apartment. Antennacraft HBU22 at radioshack on sale, ship to store. It was the biggest one that would fit in the hallway, but actually they recently added another wing and I don't fully extend it or the lower arm. It works great.

All the major networks work well, just one local station KCAL has problems but I almost never watch it. Other than that, the reception is almost always 100% perfect, occasionally a blip or two during prime time.

I don't miss cable at all, Netflix is so much better and there is plenty on antenna.


----------



## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

ame8199 said:


> Just curious why someone with cable runs Tivo..


4 Tuners come in handy much more than I expected. Overall it was costing a few dollars less than Time Warner charged. But the main thing is the additional tuners.

But then I looked at the fall tv schedule and realized I was paying $55/mth for one show that was cable-only, most of what I liked was also on antenna. The rest on cable was really mediocre, and if I want to watch mediocre, Netflix, commercial free, is much better.

For a cable system that has good dvr's, Tivo is an inexpensive luxury, kind of nice if you can afford it.


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

ame8199 said:


> Why would someone with cable use Tivo?
> 
> Don't most cable set ups up and packages come with a DVR box? I know with Uverse, all but the basic comes with a DVR...
> 
> Just curious why someone with cable runs Tivo..


As others have stated, our cable package does not come with a DVR. Originally, you could not expand disk space on cable company DVR's (we have 2TB in our S3's and HD now). You can't transfer shows and movies to your PC for taking on the road or long term saving to disk or archiving or transfer shows and movies back from your PC with the cable company DVR. Even on my old S3's we have Netflix and Pandora which we use quite a bit and Amazon which we use less. No integrated search on the cable company DVR's for searching cable, Netflix and Amazon. Better usability and reliability based on my brother's experience with the local cable company DVR (and this is with the old S3/HD SD interface).

Scott


----------



## ame8199 (Nov 23, 2014)

jrtroo said:


> What model do you have (guessing a premiere)? Where are you located?


year I bought a used Premier with lifetime services on ebay. I live on the IL side of St. Louis bout 20 miles away


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

ame8199 said:


> Ok is really just curiosity and maybe I missed some features of Tivo..
> 
> Why would someone with cable use Tivo?
> 
> ...


OMG, I can't believe this post.

1. TiVo is just so much better than anything Comcast has. Comcast used to only have really crappy DVRs. Now they have kinda crappy DVRs (X1) that are also crazy expensive, unreliable (if the "cloud" goes out, they go out), and are extremely sensitive to signal strength because they use DOCSIS to communicate with the "X1 Cloud". TiVo has Wishlists, a way better interface, offloading capabilities, etc, etc.

2. I own everything except the CableCard in my XL4. I own all my TiVos, they all have Lifetime, and I own my cable modem. Total control.

3. It's way cheaper. Even the regular Comcast DVRs are more expensive over a 4- to 5-year time span than TiVo.

4. Capabilities. Even X1 is limited to 500GB, which is pathetic compared to even my now somewhat-outdated XL4 with 2TB of storage. I think my next TiVo is going to be an upgraded 4TB Roamio Plus.

5. Switch-ability and move-ability. I could switch to the other cable company and keep my DVR. In areas with FIOS, you can switch between FIOS and cable (or FIOS and 2 cable companies where that exists). I can take the TiVo with me if I move somewhere else, regardless of the provider.

TiVo is the reason I have cable. If it weren't for TiVo, I'd have DirecTV's better channel lineup and better picture quality (as compared to the channel lineup and picture quality in my area), with their superior to cable DVR but inferior to TiVo Genie DVR.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

ame8199 said:


> Ok is really just curiosity and maybe I missed some features of Tivo..
> 
> Why would someone with cable use Tivo?
> 
> Don't most cable set ups up and packages come with a DVR box? I know with Uverse, all but the basic comes with a DVR...


Others have stated some of this, but not exactly.

Your cable bill may actually be LOWER with Tivo, since you won't have to pay for the DVR (it is included in your bill), and you may get a *slight* credit due to owning your own equipment.

In other words, you're *effectively* likely paying about $20/month for a DVR, that virtually all would agree isn't as good as a Tivo in most respects. (Better UI, likely faster, even though Tivos have the "discovery bar" which is effectively advertising, it's not as plastered with ads as cable boxes/DVRs I've seen... and though it's less of an issue for me now, you can download non copy protected shows off of your Tivo to a computer to expand offline storage... and you can watch on an iPhone/iPad too, and skip commercials [so it's different than On Demand on your phone/ipad]..)


----------



## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

Simple. Have you used cable DVR's? Even the best cable co DVR is really awful compared to TiVo. So, while the majority of subscribers stay, with some PITA, with the cable co provided DVR, those who can afford it will often get a TiVo and greatly enjoy the difference. However, there are some people who think that TV is just TV and a DVR is just a DVR and would never spend the extra $$ for a TiVo. But at least the affluent have a choice.

Now, with satellite, that is a more sensible question because while TiVo (Roamio line) excels at some things, the Genie and Hopper have quite a few features that TiVo does not, and they would be features that TiVo in the old days would have innovated, but there a lot of lamentations posted about how TiVo just hasn't had high innovation in recent years. TiVo should be credited with at least the Roamio line keeping up with features that Genie and Hopper had first. I don't think anyone can go wrong with a TiVo (Roamio line) or Genie or Hopper. Sadly the DirecTV TiVo (THR22) is based on the Series 3 platform, so it does not even come close to a Genie.

Easily TiVo is also the best DVR for just OTA, as well. While the Channel Master DVR+ has a pricing model that SELLS the device to most cord cutters or those seeking OTA recording capability, the TiVo is superior in just about every way. Most people are just scared off by the $$ to get in the TiVo game, and some simply REFUSE to ever get an OTA DVR that has a monthly fee. Otherwise, TiVo would be clearly the only real OTA recording solution for someone who just wants a box to plug in and get started with a traditional DVR, not the media and mobile streaming DVR's out there that require some tech.

Still, after all these years, TiVo is still a GREAT DVR. Of course, it was so well designed from day one.


----------



## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

I tried to record a show once on my Comcast DVR that was showing two episodes back to back one day a week. I scheduled the 1st episode, then scheduled the 2nd, and the helpful comcast DVR then deleted the 1st scheduled recording for me since I obviously didn't need it. Next I tried to manually change the recording time for the 1st episode to be twice as long. That worked, but only for one week, the next week, the recording went back to the scheduled time. I then ran screaming to the store to buy a TiVo and carted the cable box back to comcast .


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Series3Sub said:


> However, there are some people who think that TV is just TV and a DVR is just a DVR and would never spend the extra $$ for a TiVo. But at least the affluent have a choice.


The problem with the market is that most people are too stupid to realize that they have a choice. I bet a lot of people in RCN markets don't even know that they could have TiVo on Comcast/TWC or FIOS if they bought their own...



> Now, with satellite, that is a more sensible question because while TiVo (Roamio line) excels at some things, the Genie and Hopper have quite a few features that TiVo does not, and they would be features that TiVo in the old days would have innovated, but there a lot of lamentations posted about how TiVo just hasn't had high innovation in recent years.


I'm curious as to what the Genie and Hopper have that TiVo doesn't? I've heard mixed things about them, and many people say they are almost as good as the real thing, but never that they had any significant features over what TiVo has.

What is really unfortunate is that there wasn't a true successor to the HR10-250, i.e. the HR44/C31 running TiVo software. That would have been a killer combo with DirecTV!



> Easily TiVo is also the best DVR for just OTA, as well. While the Channel Master DVR+ has a pricing model that SELLS the device to most cord cutters or those seeking OTA recording capability, the TiVo is superior in just about every way. Most people are just scared off by the $$ to get in the TiVo game, and some simply REFUSE to ever get an OTA DVR that has a monthly fee. Otherwise, TiVo would be clearly the only real OTA recording solution for someone who just wants a box to plug in and get started with a traditional DVR, not the media and mobile streaming DVR's out there that require some tech.


You seem to dismiss them, but I think that Tablo is a real threat to TiVo on the OTA end (which isn't much of their business anyway, so not a threat to TiVo as a whole in any meaningful way), because Tablo was designed without being encumbered by CableLabs. TiVo is encumbered by CableLabs, and I'm glad they are, because I love TiVo with my cable, but that carries over throughout the whole system, even on the OTA side. Also, the Roamio Basic is lacking in several ways, like hard drive space and built-in MoCA. The hard drive space isn't as big of a deal when you have 5 channels versus dozens, but the MoCA kind of is a PITA. OTA is obviously an afterthought for TiVo, as they are primarily a cable DVR maker, even more so now with the MSO deals.

The Tablo seems like a much more cost effective option with many of the same features, although I haven't actually used one myself, so I can't say if the interface is anywhere close to TiVo's. Also, the monthly fee thing is a non-issue, since you can just get a Roamio Basic with Lifetime, or get one of the older boxes off of Ebay with Lifetime, any of which would be a much better option than the ChannelMaster box.


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Tivo experience > cable dvr experience 

+

probable equipment savings in the long run

=

best of both worlds or having your cake and eating it too


But I'm not blind to the fact this is lost on most cable customers. One reason is fear of the up front cost. NExt the fear of the setup. Next the teaser rates the cable company throws at you. Next the average customer really can't tell or aren't bothered by the differences in the dvr experience. They might have a few shows they want to watch and if those shows are there and can be watched then they are happy. Part of this is because they just don't know better. They don't know what's possible. They think it is a miracle just to be able to time shift their show.


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

trip1eX said:


> But I'm not blind to the fact this is lost on most cable customers. One reason is fear of the up front cost. NExt the fear of the setup. Next the teaser rates the cable company throws at you. Next the average customer really can't tell or aren't bothered by the differences in the dvr experience. They might have a few shows they want to watch and if those shows are there and can be watched then they are happy. Part of this is because they just don't know better. They don't know what's possible. They think it is a miracle just to be able to time shift their show.


You're quite true here. I also think most people don't even know what they are paying for their DVR, and nowadays it's getting baked into the packages, like with XFinity X1 Triple Play.


----------



## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bigg said:


> The problem with the market is that most people are too stupid to realize that they have a choice.


"I don't have cable, so I couldn't watch TV if I tried." -- Mayim Bialik, PhD. I was shocked when I read that the other day.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

ame8199 said:


> year I bought a used Premier with lifetime services on ebay. I live on the IL side of St. Louis bout 20 miles away


Unfortunately the Premiere OTA tuners aren't great. You might be able to help it out with a booster or a different antenna. The Roamio units have MUCH better OTA tuners. (plus they have 4 and can support the Mini)


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

wmcbrine said:


> "I don't have cable, so I couldn't watch TV if I tried." -- Mayim Bialik, PhD. I was shocked when I read that the other day.


WOW. That's pretty bad.


----------



## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

wmcbrine said:


> "I don't have cable, so I couldn't watch TV if I tried." -- Mayim Bialik, PhD. I was shocked when I read that the other day.


WoW.....PhD in Neuroscience
It's Blossom, what should we expect?

On and off the screen, Mayim, a native of San Diego, CA, remains a *strong advocate for more emphasis on science, technology, engineering, and math (STEM) in school, especially for girls.*
http://www.usasciencefestival.org/schoolprograms/niftyfifty/769-dr-mayim.html


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

CoxInPHX said:


> WoW.....PhD in Neuroscience
> It's Blossom, what should we expect?
> 
> On and off the screen, Mayim, a native of San Diego, CA, remains a *strong advocate for more emphasis on science, technology, engineering, and math (STEM) in school, especially for girls.*
> http://www.usasciencefestival.org/schoolprograms/niftyfifty/769-dr-mayim.html


As a father of two girls, so am I! It doesn't take a left wing Californian to see the value in a science and engineering education.


----------



## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

TWC - biggest piece of crap DVR on the planet.


----------



## Pacomartin (Jun 11, 2013)

ame8199 said:


> Don't most cable set ups up and packages come with a DVR box? I know with Uverse, all but the basic comes with a DVR...
> 
> Just curious why someone with cable runs Tivo..


RCN makes it a no brainer. They charge $12.95 for a 2 tuner TiVo with 300 Gb hard drive and $14.95 for a 2 tuner DVR with 120 Gb hard drive. So you are paying more for less if you don't choose TiVo.


----------



## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

bradleys said:


> As a father of two girls, so am I! It doesn't take a left wing Californian to see the value in a science and engineering education.


The point of my post was: She's a PhD*, and even _she_ thinks of cable as the only way to get TV. She doesn't think of OTA. She doesn't even think of satellite, apparently. I was trying to emphasize Bigg's point about people not realizing the alternatives to entrenched local cable monopolies that are available, while adding that the problem isn't necessarily limited to "stupid" people.

* _Not_ the point of my post -- I thought everybody already knew that about her.


----------



## NSPhillips (May 31, 2007)

wmcbrine said:


> The point of my post was: She's a PhD*, and even _she_ thinks of cable as the only way to get TV. She doesn't think of OTA. She doesn't even think of satellite, apparently. I was trying to emphasize Bigg's point about people not realizing the alternatives to entrenched local cable monopolies that are available, while adding that the problem isn't necessarily limited to "stupid" people.
> 
> * _Not_ the point of my post -- I thought everybody already knew that about her.


I didn't even know she was on that Big Bang show.


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

wmcbrine said:


> The point of my post was: She's a PhD*, and even _she_ thinks of cable as the only way to get TV. She doesn't think of OTA. She doesn't even think of satellite, apparently. I was trying to emphasize Bigg's point about people not realizing the alternatives to entrenched local cable monopolies that are available, while adding that the problem isn't necessarily limited to "stupid" people.
> 
> * _Not_ the point of my post -- I thought everybody already knew that about her.


I do not believe it was you that insinuated her support for STEM education toward girls was some type of negative to be highlighted.

It is possible I am misreading the tone and sarcasm in the original post - At least I hope I am.


----------



## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

wmcbrine said:


> The point of my post was: She's a PhD*, and even _she_ thinks of cable as the only way to get TV. She doesn't think of OTA. She doesn't even think of satellite, apparently. I was trying to emphasize Bigg's point about people not realizing the alternatives to entrenched local cable monopolies that are available, while adding that the problem isn't necessarily limited to "stupid" people.
> 
> * _Not_ the point of my post -- I thought everybody already knew that about her.


Maybe she lives in a condo in Fairfax and satellite and OTA really aren't viable options for her. But I suspect more likely that she has other priorities in her life and hasn't expended one bit of effort investigating the various means of acquiring a service she has no intention of consuming. Just my guess.


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

wmcbrine said:


> The point of my post was: She's a PhD*, and even _she_ thinks of cable as the only way to get TV. She doesn't think of OTA. She doesn't even think of satellite, apparently. I was trying to emphasize Bigg's point about people not realizing the alternatives to entrenched local cable monopolies that are available, while adding that the problem isn't necessarily limited to "stupid" people.


That's even worse than not realizing that you can opt for a TiVo instead of MSO-supplied hardware on cable and FIOS.


----------



## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

ej42137 said:


> But I suspect more likely that she has other priorities in her life and hasn't expended one bit of effort investigating the various means of acquiring a service she has no intention of consuming.


Oh, no doubt. But the thing is -- it shouldn't take even one bit of effort. The existence of OTA TV should be basic, common knowledge. And apparently, it's not, anymore.

I know a lot of people got confused by the analog shutdown, somehow mistaking it for a complete broadcast TV shutdown.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

wmcbrine said:


> The existence of OTA TV should be basic, common knowledge.


Especially to a PhD who stars in a network TV show.


----------



## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

wmcbrine said:


> "I don't have cable, so I couldn't watch TV if I tried." -- Mayim Bialik, PhD. I was shocked when I read that the other day.


Oh my! A PhD scientist playing a PhD scientist on TV! Must have been a casting mistake.


bradleys said:


> As a father of two girls, so am I! It doesn't take a left wing Californian to see the value in a science and engineering education.


Err.. And what reality is there that *does* take a left wing Californian to see?


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

dlfl said:


> Err.. And what reality is there that *does* take a left wing Californian to see?


----------

