# Live tv stuttering on mini



## wthomas69 (Nov 28, 2009)

A couple times in the last week I have noticed either live TV stuttering or I get a message that said channel is not available now. Would this be an issue with the quality of signal coming in from the cable company or is it an issue with my network speed as I have my minis connected to the boat through ethernet.I have not noticed any of these issues directly with the bolt, only the minis.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Stutter is a symptom of low speed. The wnr1000 should be fast enough.


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## wthomas69 (Nov 28, 2009)

JoeKustra said:


> Stutter is a symptom of low speed. The wnr1000 should be fast enough.


 No I don't really want to buy another router, the one I get for my cable company is pretty decent it is a D-Link that sells on Amazon for like 140 and it's free I don't even have to pay a rental fee I've had no problem with anything ever before I've been able to watch two or three streams from Netflix and both of my sons gaming online at the same time so I doubt it is the router if anything I think it might be the ethernet over power line I was wondering if mocha is faster than ethernet over power line.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

wthomas69 said:


> ... so I doubt it is the router if anything I think *it might be the ethernet over power line* I was wondering if mocha is faster than ethernet over power line.


Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!

"Ethernet over Powerline" is NOT Ethernet. I was wondering why you were having issues, but couldn't think of anything other than trying to swap-out different Ethernet components.

Back to the point... YES, either actual Ethernet and MoCA are superior to Powerline, so I'd recommend MoCA if you can't do actual Ethernet.

Can you provide a description or sketch/diagram of how your devices connect?

. e.g. See attached for a few sample diagrams (for inspiration)...


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

FYI... See the following post for some MoCA background and how-to resources:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10714963​


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## Fant (Sep 1, 2016)

I switched from powerline to moca and I concur moca is superior.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

wthomas69 said:


> I think it might be the ethernet over power line *I was wondering if mocha is faster than ethernet over power line.*


With your Mini communicating with your BOLT via MoCA 1.1, it could theoretically approach 170 Mbps, though your actual rate will depend on conditions. You can use the info below, from an older post, to determine where your Powerline gear rates. (Note that the Mini's Ethernet port is spec'd as Fast Ethernet, 100 Mbps.)


krkaufman said:


> edit: p.s. Here's a quick list comparing the theoretical max network rates for MoCA and Ethernet (i.e. leaving out Powerline, Wi-Fi, ...):
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

Fant said:


> I switched from powerline to moca and I concur moca is superior.


No kidding!

As krkaufman said...


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## wthomas69 (Nov 28, 2009)

Fant said:


> I switched from powerline to moca and I concur moca is superior.


I ran a speed test on the ethernet over power line adapter and I am receiving over 60 megs per second. That is obviously much faster than needed. Eventually I kept getting messages that said the mini would not even connect with the TiVo bolt. In doing so I had to unplug the TiVo mini to use both the HDMI cable and the ethernet cable that we're going to it, I was running the test with the new AppleTV 4 which has the ookla app. When I plugged everything back in and restarted the mini everything was fine.network speed should not have been an issue at all because in the past I was able to feed three powerline adapters in the upstairs bedrooms from the one connected to my router. In the past my younger son would be online gaming with his ps4 and my older son would be online gaming on his PC and my wife would be watching a Netflix streaming all at the same time all fed by one powerline adapter and nothing would stutter. It looks like the mini just needed to be unplugged and reset.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

wthomas69 said:


> I ran a speed test on the ethernet over power line adapter and I am receiving over 60 megs per second. That is obviously much faster than needed. Eventually I kept getting messages that said the mini would not even connect with the TiVo bolt. In doing so I had to unplug the TiVo mini to use both the HDMI cable and the ethernet cable that we're going to it, I was running the test with the new AppleTV 4 which has the ookla app. When I plugged everything back in and restarted the mini everything was fine.network speed should not have been an issue at all because in the past I was able to feed three powerline adapters in the upstairs bedrooms from the one connected to my router. In the past my younger son would be online gaming with his ps4 and my older son would be online gaming on his PC and my wife would be watching a Netflix streaming all at the same time all fed by one powerline adapter and nothing would stutter. It looks like the mini just needed to be unplugged and reset.


While powerline *may* work for some people (for Mini), it is *not* an officially supported method of connection. As simple as that. And there is a reason for that.

I know people that never have a problem, but I also know people that had problems with Mini working consistently, including myself. It would not work for me. Switched to MoCA and everything is great now.

I had a whole thread on this:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=543885


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## alexb (Jan 4, 2003)

Also transfer speed is only one metric that is important. The others are latency and packet loss / jitter.

Power line can be terrible on the final two, I was using it with my media center extenders and it was often the culprit of many issues.

I found it was worth it to pay an electrician to extend my CAT5 around the house - I now only have true wired media devices and everything is rock solid.


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## Fant (Sep 1, 2016)

I found power line was inconsistent with connections. Bandwidth was there when it worked but it would randomly lose connection.


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## wthomas69 (Nov 28, 2009)

Fant said:


> I found power line was inconsistent with connections. Bandwidth was there when it worked but it would randomly lose connection.


So I have had no problems since recycling power to the mini. If I were to go to MoCA route what would I need in terms of adapters filters Splitters Etc. I currently have my cable feed split between my cable modem and directly to a television. ethernet coming out of the cable modem directly into my router from the router ethernet into a gigabit switch then on to my TiVo Bolt. Ethernet feeds the first mini ethernet over Powerline feeds the second Mini, both Minis have access to coaxial cable. On a side note can a mini get pay per view? Occasionally my sons will rent a UFC fight or a big boxing match and watch it down in our basement theater where the first mini is installed with ethernet directly. Up until a month ago we had a cable box down there so pay-per-view was not a problem


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

wthomas69 said:


> If I were to go to MoCA route what would I need in terms of adapters filters Splitters Etc. I currently have my cable feed split between my cable modem and directly to a television. ethernet coming out of the cable modem directly into my router from the router ethernet into a gigabit switch then on to my TiVo Bolt. Ethernet feeds the first mini ethernet over Powerline feeds the second Mini, both Minis have access to coaxial cable.


It sounds like you would be able to use your BOLT to create your MoCA network, since the BOLT is connected via Ethernet, and you would only *need* to convert the one Powerline-connected Mini to MoCA. Your Ethernet-connected Mini could continue that way, or optionally be switched over to MoCA.

As for additional hardware, you'd definitely want to get a MoCA filter installed at your cable provider's point-of-entry (PoE) to your home (more info here), and you *may* need to update splitters to MoCA-compatible versions if you have MoCA performance or connectivity issues. Also, you don't mention how the rooms connect to each other; this device would also, ideally, be MoCA-compatible.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

wthomas69 said:


> On a side note can a mini get pay per view? Occasionally my sons will rent a UFC fight or a big boxing match and watch it down in our basement theater where the first mini is installed with ethernet directly. Up until a month ago we had a cable box down there so pay-per-view was not a problem


It depends on who your cable provider is. TiVo has On Demand apps for Comcast/Xfinity and Cox; not sure what others. I haven't used the feature but I assume that one can buy PPV through these apps.

And for other providers, can't say. It's possible you might be able to purchase a PPV title through some other means (telephone, online, mobile app?) but then tune to a specified PPV channel once the content is unlocked?


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## wthomas69 (Nov 28, 2009)

krkaufman said:


> It sounds like you would be able to use your BOLT to create your MoCA network, since the BOLT is connected via Ethernet, and you would only *need* to convert the one Powerline-connected Mini to MoCA. Your Ethernet-connected Mini could continue that way, or optionally be switched over to MoCA.
> 
> As for additional hardware, you'd definitely want to get a MoCA filter installed at your cable provider's point-of-entry (PoE) to your home (more info here), and you *may* need to update splitters to MoCA-compatible versions if you have MoCA performance or connectivity issues. Also, you don't mention how the rooms connect to each other; this device would also, ideally, be MoCA-compatible.


 Right now my bolt is fed with a cable wire that is coming from the basement splitter. This is a six way splitter that feeds each room in the house With a cable feed. I thought I read it in the set up instructions that my network had to be either ethernet or mocha but I could not use both. So if I decide to go the mocha route i'm assuming I would not have any ethernet cables attached to either the boat or the minis. What hardware do I need to install at the minis and or at the bolt. i'm assuming I would not have any ethernet cables attached to either the bolt or the minis. The TiVo bolt is not in the same room as the cable modem or the wireless router. In that room I have a simple splitter that sends one signal to the cable modem and one signal directly to a TV. The bolt is in our living room and that is fed with a cable feed directly from the basement splitter, this room also has ethernet coming from a gigabit switch. The first mini is in the master bedroom which also has a cable feed directly from the basement splitter (t hat is not hooked up) and ethernet over power line . The second mini is in my basement theater and that is currently receiving an ethernet signal from my gigabit switch, but I also have a cable feed in that area that is simply not hooked up.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

wthomas69 said:


> I thought I read it in the set up instructions that my network had to be either ethernet or mocha but I could not use both.


Quick correction: Incorrect; you CAN have a mix of Ethernet and MoCA, no problem. (Or all of one or the other, whatever works/fits best.)

Did you miss this? ::


krkaufman said:


> It sounds like you would be able to use your BOLT to create your MoCA network, since the BOLT is connected via Ethernet, and you would only *need* to convert the one Powerline-connected Mini to MoCA. Your Ethernet-connected Mini could continue that way, or optionally be switched over to MoCA.
> 
> As for additional hardware, you'd definitely want to get a MoCA filter installed at your cable provider's point-of-entry (PoE) to your home (more info here), and you *may* need to update splitters to MoCA-compatible versions if you have MoCA performance or connectivity issues. Also, you don't mention how the rooms connect to each other; this device would also, ideally, be MoCA-compatible.



edit: p.s. The connections you describe for your BOLT...


wthomas69 said:


> The bolt is in our living room and that is fed with a cable feed directly from the basement splitter, this room also has ethernet coming from a gigabit switch.


... are sufficient to allow it to create your MoCA network: your MoCA-bridging device needs to connect to your coax lines and to your Ethernet LAN; your BOLT , as described, meets these requirements.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

wthomas69 said:


> ... the basement splitter. This is a six way splitter that feeds each room in the house With a cable feed. ... the cable modem or the wireless router. In that room I have a simple splitter that sends one signal to the cable modem and one signal directly to a TV.


Can you provide the brand/model number of that 6-way splitter in the basement? (First, I want to make sure it's a splitter and not an amp; and then I'm curious in regards to whether there are any negative reports relative to MoCA performance.)

I see you're connecting the coax directly to a TV. Can the TV still pick-up and tune the signal? (i.e. Is the splitter in this room still necessary?)

I'm just wondering if the basement splitter can be right-sized in some way, to ensure better signal strength to the BOLT and cable modem, and to minimize unnecessary MoCA signal attenuation. For example, even without reducing the number of connected coax runs, rather than a 6-way splitter, you could potentially use a 3-way splitter cascaded with a 4-way splitter to provide the same number of total outputs but with 2 lines having improved signal strength over the 6-way approach.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Tip: Generally, you'll want to review a thread from your last read post, not just the last post linked in the forum listings. Yeah, it can be a hassle for fast-moving threads, or when people like me go post-happy.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Also, you seem to be flying a little blind re: MoCA. See the following post for links to a number of MoCA-related info resources.

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10714963


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## wthomas69 (Nov 28, 2009)

krkaufman said:


> Can you provide the brand/model number of that 6-way splitter in the basement? (First, I want to make sure it's a splitter and not an amp; and then I'm curious in regards to whether there are any negative reports relative to MoCA performance.)
> 
> I see you're connecting the coax directly to a TV. Can the TV still pick-up and tune the signal? (i.e. Is the splitter in this room still necessary?)
> 
> I'm just wondering if the basement splitter can be right-sized in some way, to ensure better signal strength to the BOLT and cable modem, and to minimize unnecessary MoCA signal attenuation. For example, even without reducing the number of connected coax runs, rather than a 6-way splitter, you could potentially use a 3-way splitter cascaded with a 4-way splitter to provide the same number of total outputs but with 2 lines having improved signal strength over the 6-way approach.


Will get splitter info in am (working now) Forget about the tv that has coax directly to it (it is a fourth tv and not involved with the tivo system at all), it used to have a cable box attached and happens to be in the same room as the modem and router, now getting cable signal for internal digital tuner.


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## wthomas69 (Nov 28, 2009)

May be a dumb question at this point comma what would a Wi-Fi extender with an ethernet port work better than a powerline adapter?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

wthomas69 said:


> May be a dumb question at this point comma what would a Wi-Fi extender with an ethernet port work better than a powerline adapter?


Possibly, but it depends on the quality of the wireless base station, the wireless extender and where each is located. Many people use such a configuration, so hopefully someone with some experience can help you out.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

wthomas69 said:


> May be a dumb question at this point comma what would a Wi-Fi extender with an ethernet port work better than a powerline adapter?


It depends. The best answer is......neither:

Wifi range extender for Mini

Your mileage may vary


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

wthomas69 said:


> May be a dumb question at this point comma what would a Wi-Fi extender with an ethernet port work better than a powerline adapter?


It's mostly a money issue. You need a really good router. I have a Netgear R8000. There are 15 wireless devices and five wired devices. Since I'm single the load is not severe. I have never used a wired Mini. I have 4 v2 and one v1. One Roamio uses a ASUS EA-N66r. The Mini I use daily is connected by a Linksys WUMC710 as is the v1 Mini. Two Mini boxes use WUMC710 and another uses a TiVo wireless N adapter. It's next door. The house is old, plaster walls. All bridges have reservations. I have no TP-Link experience. My media center is a floor above the router, as is the v1 Mini. Remember, it's Mini to router, not Mini to Roamio or Bolt. You can not use the built-in wireless of a Roamio.

I feel if you have a reasonable environment and budget, wireless is acceptable. If you need support, have little wireless experience and a questionable environment, use Ethernet or MoCA.


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## wthomas69 (Nov 28, 2009)

I don't believe it is my router, the router I am using is a D-Link DIR – 868L ( which is supplied completely free of charge from my cable provider ). I have been using this router for more than two years with flawless performance. In the past I have been able to watch multiple Netflix streams while both of my sons were gaming online simultaneously. At this point it is only my wife and I at home and the only wireless devices we have at this point are our cell phones. I do have several devices hardwired with ethernet cable to the router with gigabit switches. These devices include the typical AV receiver, AppleTV, Roku, fire TV, desktop PCs etc. at this point it is very rare that more than two or three items are even powered on at the same time, so network traffic is not an issue. I have been monitoring my Wi-Fi speed at at the spot where my Wi-Fi range extender or would be placed, and for the last seven days it is consistently between 60 and 70 MB per second. I am looking at the Netgear N300 wifi range extender with ethernet. Sorry on my ignorance for this issue but I have never used a mocha network. When I read that I cannot use both mocha and ethernet, that has to be one or the other, is that with the entire set up or just on each individual piece of equipment? Meaning can I have my bolt and my first mini connected with ethernet and then my second mini connected with moca? When I do a quick search on Amazon for mocha adapters I see pieces of equipment ranging in price from $50-$130, and wouldn't even know what I really needed if I wanted to go moca.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

wthomas69 said:


> I don't believe it is my router, the router I am using is a D-Link DIR - 868L ( which is supplied completely free of charge from my cable provider ). I have been using this router for more than two years with flawless performance. In the past I have been able to watch multiple Netflix streams while both of my sons were gaming online simultaneously. At this point it is only my wife and I at home and the only wireless devices we have at this point are our cell phones. I do have several devices hardwired with ethernet cable to the router with gigabit switches. These devices include the typical AV receiver, AppleTV, Roku, fire TV, desktop PCs etc. at this point it is very rare that more than two or three items are even powered on at the same time, so network traffic is not an issue. I have been monitoring my Wi-Fi speed at at the spot where my Wi-Fi range extender or would be placed, and for the last seven days it is consistently between 60 and 70 MB per second. I am looking at the Netgear N300 wifi range extender with ethernet. Sorry on my ignorance for this issue but I have never used a mocha network. When I read that I cannot use both mocha and ethernet, that has to be one or the other, is that with the entire set up or just on each individual piece of equipment? Meaning can I have my bolt and my first mini connected with ethernet and then my second mini connected with moca? When I do a quick search on Amazon for mocha adapters I see pieces of equipment ranging in price from $50-$130, and wouldn't even know what I really needed if I wanted to go moca.


Your router looks good. The N300 is pretty weak. A Mini only needs 20Mbps for TV. I never used a wired Mini or MoCA. I do have 100' of CAT-5 to use for testing. It's cheap from monoprice.com.


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## wthomas69 (Nov 28, 2009)

Your router looks good. The N300 is pretty weak. A Mini only needs 20Mbps for TV. I never used a wired Mini or MoCA. I do have 100' of CAT-5 to use for testing. It's cheap from monoprice.com

any suggestions for a wifi extender, whats weird is that some days the signal is great and no stuttering, like today, other times lots of stuttering.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

wthomas69 said:


> any suggestions for a wifi extender, whats weird is that some days the signal is great and no stuttering, like today, other times lots of stuttering.


That's the environment. I guess you need 110% capacity which does suck. I have used various wireless bridges. Most have become very expensive. Also, I think your bridge is 2.4GHz which is easier to mess up but has better range. All my stuff, except a printer, is 5GHz and 802.11a/ac. I have used a TiVo wireless N through a wall to the room next door. If you can change the channel on the router, you might look for a channel not used locally. The program inSSIDer, which had a free version, can be used with a wireless computer to see what might be causing interference. You'll have to search for the free version. I don't have a budget issue, so I like the Linksys WUMC710 which also has four Ethernet ports. One port for the Mini, one for the TV. I can access and configure them remotely (after initial setup). My kitchen Mini has two walls to pass through before reaching the router. I use it daily. and since moving it behind the TV I do have a dropout once a week or so. Never a disconnect and I don't stream or watch recorded content. But I have tested them.

First, and cheapest, is to set your router's 2.4GHz channel to 1. Most default to 6. As for 5GHz I always use channels 36 and 149 with different SSID.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

I just checked your router's manual. You can set the 2.4GHz channel to 1. The manual is wrong about 5GHz, but use channel 139 if possible. Expect to reboot everything after you make these changes. It's only dual-band, so you only have one SSID for 5GHz.


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