# How to deal with all the eggs in one basket problem



## Roveer (May 28, 2003)

So I've been in the process of getting all of the TV's in my house Tivo equipped. When I'm totally done it will most likely be 8 locations. I started with a Roamio in the family room and have amassed Mini's when I could get them at low prices. It hit me last night that if my Roamio craps out I'm dead in the water until I replace/repair it. That could be days and days?

I know that Tivo's can die in several different ways, some that can be fixed fairly easily, some that can't. A cable card issue can be resolved by picking up and pairing a new CC. A dead HD issue most likely can be fixed by dropping in a new drive (I've done HD UPgrades on my legacy Tivo's). But the one that scares me is the dead Tivo system board or PS. Especially if I'm out of warranty. My Series one lasted 10+ years but the modem died after 8 years and I was able to put an external using the dialing prefix. 

I'm thinking about keeping en eye out for a Roamio with lifetime to keep as a spare that could drop in place quickly to get things going again.

Any other ideas? 

Roveer


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Buy an uninterrupted power supply for the Roamio. Most problems to a DVR are going to be a result of power interruptions. A good-quality UPS will prevent them from happening.

If the Roamio does go out of commission for a few weeks for whatever reason, you can always just go down to your cable company's local store and pick up a few of their cable boxes to use temporarily. And once you get the Roamio fixed, just return them. It's not the end of the world.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Go without tv for a few days? That's all that comes to mind.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

I vote for the UPS too. Not having one is like driving a car without a spare. Everything I care about is on a UPS from 400VA to 1500VA + Battery pack. Since going this route _nothing_ has ever died. My power frequently jumps to 160v for a few ms as shown on a UPS I can see.

And I have a Premier and a Roamio/Mini. Each has its duties and I sleep very well at night.

And don't put all your eggs in one basket.


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## wombat94 (Nov 18, 2007)

I agree with the idea of just going without for a few days... especially since as time goes on, there will be more and more opportunities to replace/supplement TiVo service with over-the-top services.

I don't think it makes sense to purchase/mothball a second Roamio with PLS to have as a spare... a lot of expense as a backup.

I am in the middle of switching from two Lifetimed Premieres and one non-lifetime Tivo HD to a Roamio Pro and two Tivo Minis.

I have decided to sell both of the lifetimed Premieres and deactivate but keep the TivoHD.

If the Roamio dies a death that is unable to be revived by me, I'll activate the TivoHD for month-to-month and then purchase another Roamio. I'm not even willing to activate PLS on the TivoHD for $99 because I don't expect it to be anything but a stop-gap backup that will never be active for more than a week or two.

If the Roamio lasts as well as the TivoHD and the Premieres have, I think it will be the NEXT generation Tivo (series 6?) that I'll end up purchasing if/when the time comes. That's why I don't want to buy this year's technology to sit on the shelf as a backup.


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## Roveer (May 28, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> I vote for the UPS too. Not having one is like driving a car without a spare. Everything I care about is on a UPS from 400VA to 1500VA + Battery pack. Since going this route _nothing_ has ever died. My power frequently jumps to 160v for a few ms as shown on a UPS I can see.
> 
> And I have a Premier and a Roamio/Mini. Each has its duties and I sleep very well at night.
> 
> And don't put all your eggs in one basket.


Yes, the UPS route was already on my list. I've got a few mid-grade APC's lying around and even have some new batteries I bought a while ago to refurb the batteries that were depleted.

The more I think about it, I'm not going to buy another Roamio for spare. I'll be keeping the one "free" SD box that FIOS provides so if I have a full failure at least we can have some TV while I figure out how to deal with replacement.

Roveer


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Which Roamio do you have? If it's the 4 tuner unit it might be worth picking up a spare power brick...

https://www.tivo.com/shop/detail/roamios-power-adapter

as that's the most likely failure point, other then the hard drive, for that unit. If it's a Plus/Pro then the power supply is internal. You can get one from Weaknees for $50, but I'm not sure it's worth buying one just to have on hand. With past units they've taken many years to fail, especially when the TiVo is on a UPS.

Motherboard failures are rare. And if they happen they take the lifetime service with them, so at that point you might as well buy a new TiVo.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

How much are you willing to be spend to avert the risk of failure.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

waynomo said:


> How much are you willing to be spend to avert the risk of failure.


And that must be balanced against the consequences of failure. If all it means is the OP can't watch TV for a few days, so be it.

However, if it means his wife and kids stage a revolt, and the place turns into a scene out of the Lord of the Flies without tvs in every room.... Sometimes a little preparation is worth the cost...


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## Bytez (Sep 11, 2004)

Which UPS do you recommend?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

TiVos only draw about 20watts, so you don't need a big one. However the bigger ones tend to have better electronic and a longer lasting battery.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Bytez said:


> Which UPS do you recommend?


I can't be specific. It has been a while since I bought one, which I guess is a mark of the quality of those I have. APC is the most popular and expensive, but others may fit your needs for less money. Two important considerations. It should have a temperature controlled fan. I have one that stays in the basement since the fan runs continuously. That sucks. A nice feature is adjustable sensitivity. That helps with slight variations that we all get, some are small and some are large. Also consider how easy will it be to return if you hate it. I use one APC that, when tripped, runs for four hours minimum afterwards. APC said that's how it works. Luckily it's quiet. Color counts but black is pretty standard now. If you like to keep things forever, check the cost of a new battery. They are like car batteries - they don't last forever. I usually buy a new one. With a UPC you don't need a surge strip, just a dumb outlet strip. It all depends how many devices you expect to support. Some have a few surge only outlets, some don't. My 1500VA APC supports a TV, TiVo, two BD players and an AVR. BTW, a UPS has no startup rating, like an inverter. You can't use it with your fridge or microwave. I guess there is a lot to think about. I have two small units that are just for tiny outages, which are those under 6 seconds. I get those sometimes. If it's longer I start to unplug things that don't care. And if you decide to get one to keep the TiVo running for a while, be sure to plug your internet access devices into it also. I never run my CAT5, internet or any cable through the UPS. "Smart" implies you will have a computer connected all the time. I don't need that either. So, good luck and happy hunting.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

If you have a membership to Costco (or have a friend who does), they sell a pretty good CyberPower UPS for $95.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

tarheelblue32 said:


> If you have a membership to Costco (or have a friend who does), they sell a pretty good CyberPower UPS for $95.


I have one of those (600VA). Very good and cost effective.


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## DougJohnson (Dec 12, 2006)

kdmorse said:


> And that must be balanced against the consequences of failure. If all it means is the OP can't watch TV for a few days, so be it.
> 
> However, if it means his wife and kids stage a revolt, and the place turns into a scene out of the Lord of the Flies without tvs in every room.... Sometimes a little preparation is worth the cost...


My Series 3 went paws up in the middle of the Winter Olympics. My beloved wife informed me that this was a serious emergency. A new Roamio was ordered with next day delivery while I drove to Mouser Electronics to get the parts to re-cap the Series 3 power supply. Expensive, but much cheaper than a divorce.  -- Doug


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## Sixto (Sep 16, 2005)

I have two Roamio Pro's, one Roamio Plus, and four Minis. Each of the Roamio's and three of the four Mini's are on a APC UPS. Mostly BE550 UPS', of which some other electronics are hooked to them as well. Total of 9 UPS' in the house, especially to avoid any split second power hit, both to protect against a power surge and to avoid spontaneous reboots. 

For the DVRs, if I lost my Roamio, I dual record/backup to the free FiOS 7232 Free DVR for Life. The 7232 only has two tuners, but mostly has everything important with a season pass to match my Roamio. No Minis are on my Roamio. For my wife's Roamio, if it failed, she'd lose her recordings and I'd switch the one Mini on her DVR to my Roamio. The third Roamio is mostly to serve 3 Mini's, this allows the his/her's Roamio's to have 5 or 6 tuners, and if that one failed I'd move the three Mini's to the other Roamio's temporarily, probably two Mini's to my Roamio and one to my wife's, leaving at least 4 tuners on each for recording. 

Have given this a lot of thought over the years, but luckily haven't had much fail. I also have spare 1TB and 3TB WDC AV-GP drives(s) in case it's a hard drive failure. In the old days I also used to keep a drive backup, but now the drives self format. 

Also went with an inverter generator after Sandy because the UPS' didn't like the power of the standard generator during hurricane Sandy.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

I've had everything on APS UPS for some time. A number of these devices eventually died, and replacing the battery would not bring them back to life. I came across a note that described a common failure in the cheaper APS devices that a dying battery would permanently kill the electronics; and that seems to agree with my personal experience. Since then I've bought only Cyberpower to replace failing APS UPS units. I haven't had any of these long enough for the batteries to die yet so I can't confirm the whole story but I do prefer the Cyberpower hardware user interface.


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## PCurry57 (Feb 27, 2012)

Roveer said:


> So I've been in the process of getting all of the TV's in my house Tivo equipped. When I'm totally done it will most likely be 8 locations. I started with a Roamio in the family room and have amassed Mini's when I could get them at low prices. It hit me last night that if my Roamio craps out I'm dead in the water until I replace/repair it. That could be days and days?
> 
> I know that Tivo's can die in several different ways, some that can be fixed fairly easily, some that can't. A cable card issue can be resolved by picking up and pairing a new CC. A dead HD issue most likely can be fixed by dropping in a new drive (I've done HD UPgrades on my legacy Tivo's). But the one that scares me is the dead Tivo system board or PS. Especially if I'm out of warranty. My Series one lasted 10+ years but the modem died after 8 years and I was able to put an external using the dialing prefix.
> 
> ...


I agree with the ups recommendations. You could also consider adding a second Roamio perhaps a basic unit and put an OTA antenna on it for those storms and other cable outages at least you'd have local news.


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## Bytez (Sep 11, 2004)

tarheelblue32 said:


> If you have a membership to Costco (or have a friend who does), they sell a pretty good CyberPower UPS for $95.


Is it this one?

http://www.costco.com/CyberPower-Intelligent-LCD-Battery-Backup.product.100035931.html#BVRRWidgetID


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Bytez said:


> Is it this one?
> 
> http://www.costco.com/CyberPower-Intelligent-LCD-Battery-Backup.product.100035931.html#BVRRWidgetID


No, it's this one:

http://www.costco.com/CyberPower-14...le-Power-Supply-(UPS)-.product.100099657.html

I've had 2 of them for about a year and they have both worked very well so far. On the Costco website it is listed at $139.99, but in the store they sell it for ~$95. It is a special model that they make just for Costco, but it is almost identical to this one:

http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP...TF8&qid=1419399068&sr=8-1&keywords=cyberpower


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## jadziedzic (Apr 20, 2009)

Not sure I'm thrilled with the "simulated sine wave" output while on battery power...


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

jadziedzic said:


> Not sure I'm thrilled with the "simulated sine wave" output while on battery power...


There are a few electronics that require a "pure sine wave", but most don't. For what it's worth, the Roamio Plus (as well as my Cisco tuning adapter, Samsung TV, Motorola cable modem, and Linksys router) all work just fine with the simulated sine wave output when on battery power. if you have a computer that truly needs it, CyberPower does make a "pure sine wave" version, but it is more expensive:

http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP...TF8&qid=1419435639&sr=8-2&keywords=cyberpower


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

tarheelblue32 said:


> No, it's this one:
> 
> http://www.costco.com/CyberPower-14...le-Power-Supply-(UPS)-.product.100099657.html
> 
> ...


I had the Cyber Power 850AVR for 5 years and the battery is just about gone, a new battery cost about $40, from Amazon, I can't find a less expensive one, because I have a home generator I only need 16 sec of backup power for my computer, so I can live with the 2 minutes I get now.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

lessd said:


> because I have a home generator I only need 16 sec of backup power for my computer, so I can live with the 2 minutes I get now.


Some of us need a little more time than that.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

lessd said:


> I had the Cyber Power 850AVR for 5 years and the battery is just about gone, a new battery cost about $40, from Amazon, I can't find a less expensive one, because I have a home generator I only need 16 sec of backup power for my computer, so I can live with the 2 minutes I get now.


Here ya go: $16.49 shipped!

I've purchased non-OEM replacement UPS batteries from this eBay seller before and haven't experienced any problems to date.

BTW, all my electronics are on Cyberpower UPS's; I can recommend this brand for reliability and value.

PS: Make sure to properly recycle your old batteries; most Home Depots, BestBuys and other large retailers will accept them, not to mention battery stores.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Roveer said:


> I'll be keeping the one "free" SD box that FIOS provides so if I have a full failure at least we can have some TV while I figure out how to deal with replacement.


Yeah you can just go to the FIOS store and a rent a DVR if your Roamio dies.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Most equipment works fine with simulated sine wave power. But it only takes 1 piece of equipment that doesn't to ruin your day and make you buy a different UPS.

And since I've run into that more than once over the years, I'm a pure sine wave bigot.


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## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

*I still have the two free standard definition set-top boxes FiOS supplied several years ago when I subscribed to their service. At that time they had 100% digital service and most of their subscribers had older TV's with analog tuners. Unfortunately, those SD boxes do not have the TiVO bells and whistles such as pause, rewind, FF, record etc.

If your subscribe to premium channels such as ShowTime or rental services such as NetFlix or Amazon, you may want to purchase an Amazon Fire Stick that plugs into a HDMI port on your TV. They are inexpensive at $39 and will stream on demand shows to your TV while your TiVO is being repaired or replaced. Unlike Google Chromecast you do not need a PC or tablet to stream any shows to your TV from the Web.

The UPS backup battery others have recommended is a smart move to protect your electronic equipment.*


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

chiguy50 said:


> BTW, all my electronics are on Cyberpower UPS's; I can recommend this brand for reliability and value.


I've owned 2 Cyberpower UPSs. One started smoking during a power failure. That one was unplugged immediately.

YMMV


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

DougJohnson said:


> My Series 3 went paws up in the middle of the Winter Olympics. My beloved wife informed me that this was a serious emergency. A new Roamio was ordered with next day delivery *while I drove to Mouser Electronics* to get the parts to re-cap the Series 3 power supply. Expensive, but much cheaper than a divorce.  -- Doug


I hate you so much right now.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

chiguy50 said:


> Here ya go: $16.49 shipped!
> 
> I've purchased non-OEM replacement UPS batteries from this eBay seller before and haven't experienced any problems to date.


Incorrect battery for my UPS the correct one is http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009ACPCTS/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3NS063NY5JUSS&coliid=I1UKY7W5NKCCX3

at $35


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## rob4crib (Dec 24, 2014)

Roveer said:


> So I've been in the process of getting all of the TV's in my house Tivo equipped. When I'm totally done it will most likely be 8 locations. I started with a Roamio in the family room and have amassed Mini's when I could get them at low prices. It hit me last night that if my Roamio craps out I'm dead in the water until I replace/repair it. That could be days and days?
> 
> I know that Tivo's can die in several different ways, some that can be fixed fairly easily, some that can't. A cable card issue can be resolved by picking up and pairing a new CC. A dead HD issue most likely can be fixed by dropping in a new drive (I've done HD UPgrades on my legacy Tivo's). But the one that scares me is the dead Tivo system board or PS. Especially if I'm out of warranty. My Series one lasted 10+ years but the modem died after 8 years and I was able to put an external using the dialing prefix.
> 
> ...


Hmmm


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## rob4crib (Dec 24, 2014)

Couldn't you just backup your hard drive??? Roamio has made it quite simple


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

lessd said:


> Incorrect battery for my UPS the correct one is http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009ACPCTS/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3NS063NY5JUSS&coliid=I1UKY7W5NKCCX3
> 
> at $35


No personal experience with this seller or this battery brand, but maybe

http://www.batteryclerk.com/store/p/95439-CyberPower-RB1280A-12V-9Ah-UPS-Battery.html

$18.31 plus whatever they get for shipping.

But be sure to reuse any tab shrouds and insulators from original battery, and don't try to "hot swap" it, not even turned off but still plugged in.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

unitron said:


> No personal experience with this seller or this battery brand, but maybe
> 
> http://www.batteryclerk.com/store/p/95439-CyberPower-RB1280A-12V-9Ah-UPS-Battery.html
> 
> ...


If you look at the reviews of these 3rd pty batters their not good, lasting only a few years, until I know that a battery will be as good as the original, I will go with the original every 5 or 6 years.


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## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

rob4crib said:


> Couldn't you just backup your hard drive??? Roamio has made it quite simple


*Please share how this can be done or provide a Web link.*


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

trip1eX said:


> Go without tv for a few days? That's all that comes to mind.


Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. I have a couple of roommates, so if it was football season, or basketball season for me, I'd probably grab one HD box from Comcast for a couple of days if my TiVo crapped out. Hopefully it won't. In my case, I could also switch to MCE for a short period of time, as I still have a Ceton InfiniTV laying around.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

JacksTiVo said:


> *Please share how this can be done or provide a Web link.*


You can back up most of the recordings to your PC, than push them back to a new TiVo, or new drive in your TiVo.


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## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

lessd said:


> You can back up most of the recordings to your PC, than push them back to a new TiVo, or new drive in your TiVo.


*Thanks, I was anticipating that response.

Several years ago I gave up on all Microsoft Windows PC's and now only use Apple Macs and devices (iPad, iPhone). Since TiVO no longer supports TiVO Desktop for Mac, is there any software packages available for Mac users to transfer from TiVO to Mac computers? The TiVo Web site does not mention any and a Web search has not been helpful. I have access to 5TB of backup storage on several LaCie drives connected on my home network, so it would be nice if I could backup my shows on my Roamio hard drive to them.

As mentioned by others, there is that one disadvantage of replacing older Series 2 & 3 TiVo's with a Roamio and mini's.*


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## Ashton (Dec 3, 2014)

JacksTiVo said:


> Since TiVO no longer supports TiVO Desktop for Mac, is there any software packages available for Mac users to transfer from TiVO to Mac computers?


cTiVo.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

JacksTiVo said:


> Thanks, I was anticipating that response.
> 
> Several years ago I gave up on all Microsoft Windows PC's and now only use Apple Macs and devices (iPad, iPhone). Since TiVO no longer supports TiVO Desktop for Mac, is there any software packages available for Mac users to transfer from TiVO to Mac computers? The TiVo Web site does not mention any and a Web search has not been helpful. I have access to 5TB of backup storage on several LaCie drives connected on my home network, so it would be nice if I could backup my shows on my Roamio hard drive to them.
> 
> As mentioned by others, there is that one disadvantage of replacing older Series 2 & 3 TiVo's with a Roamio and mini's


I believe that kmttg (java based) or pytimvo (python based) are each capable of running on a Mac, and either are capable of transfering tivo files back and forth between the TiVo and a computer.


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## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

Ashton said:


> cTiVo.


*Thanks, but I checked and cTiVO is not an app that is currently available in the Apple "App store" for Macs. With only four reviews that is not enough user input to assure me that cTiVO is not malware I would be installing on my Mac. For all I know the four reviewers could be the same person or even the App developer.

*


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

99% of Mac software is not in the stupid "App store" and never will be. If that is your criteria for downloading software, all you'll ever get is overpriced commercial mainstream software.


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## DougJohnson (Dec 12, 2006)

JacksTiVo said:


> * ...is there any software packages available for Mac users to transfer from TiVO to Mac computers? *


*

From any browser, go to https://<your TiVO's IP address>

Note the "https". It will ask for authentication. Use "tivo" as the user id and your media access key as the password. You can download anything that is not copy protected. When you download, it will ask for authentication. Use the same as before.
-- Doug*


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## Ashton (Dec 3, 2014)

JacksTiVo said:


> Thanks, but I checked and cTiVO is not an app that is currently available in the Apple "App store" for Macs. With only four reviews that is not enough user input to assure me that cTiVO is not malware I would be installing on my Mac. For all I know the four reviewers could be the same person or even the App developer.


Um, did you bother to read the cTiVo thread on this site? The developer is active here.

You're missing out on a lot of the Mac world. The App Store is hardly the be all and end all.

Edit: So as not to cause you to do any work, here's the cTiVo thread:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=503495


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## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

*Thanks for all your suggestions and solutions. I am sure cTivo is safe and effective based on your recommendations, but as a former sufferer (user) of Microsoft Windows, I intend to keep my Macs as clean as possible.

I personally do not object to paying for App Store software since it does support the developers. As was noted, some applications are overpriced so I do not purchase them. Occasionally they have promotions on some very good applications and since the developers receive income they also provide support and updates. Many developers, as an alternative, rely on voluntary donations to support their work and I have made donations to some such as Wikipedia and Mozilla and others. There is room for both business models in the App development field.

Again thanks for your responses. *


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## confinoj (Apr 2, 2003)

JacksTiVo said:


> *Thanks for all your suggestions and solutions. I am sure cTivo is safe and effective based on your recommendations, but as a former sufferer (user) of Microsoft Windows, I intend to keep my Macs as clean as possible.
> 
> I personally do not object to paying for App Store software since it does support the developers. As was noted, some applications are overpriced so I do not purchase them. Occasionally they have promotions on some very good applications and since the developers receive income they also provide support and updates. Many developers, as an alternative, rely on voluntary donations to support their work and I have made donations to some such as Wikipedia and Mozilla and others. There is room for both business models in the App development field.
> 
> Again thanks for your responses. *


You don't have any OS X options then. KMTTG and cTivo work very well for your intended purpose and have been used for a long time by forum members. cTivo is code signed for OSX. OS X is a different entity than windows and has very little malware written for it. OS X apps existed long before the Mac app store was created (1/2011). While an easy secure place to get apps Apple limits the feature of app store apps. You should consider changing your approach to OS X apps as you are excluding many potentially excellent useful apps.


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