# DTV HD-DVR and canceling Service



## ccg83 (Jun 24, 2004)

Hey guys, I just had a question... I am moving into a town home that does not allow DTV (or sat service at all) so I am forced to go with Comcast.

I am wondering that if I cancel service with DTV will my HDDVR continue to work if I connected it to my TV? Not really to record but to watch pre-recorded programs until I can clear the HDD.

Any info would be awesome.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

HR10-250... yes, you will be able to playback anything that was previously recorded.


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## ccg83 (Jun 24, 2004)

What about the HR-20?


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## feobrien (Jan 19, 2003)

I thought it was illegal to prevent the installation of DTV dishes by home owner associations, etc. See link: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html It is probably up to you how hard you want to push your townhome association.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

ccg83 said:


> What about the HR-20?


You must have a satellite signal for the HR-20 to let you play anything. I'm not sure if you need an activate account but I think so.


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## videojanitor (Dec 21, 2001)

rminsk said:


> I'm not sure if you need an activate account but I think so.


I believe so. Awhile back there was a bug where if you made a programming change via D*'s website (such as adding HBO), it would deactivate the DVR service. When that happened, it was impossible to play previously recorded material -- but it worked again as soon as you got them to turn the DVR service back on. So, it would seem to follow that if you close your account, the HR20 won't be able to access your recordings.


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

videojanitor said:


> if you close your account, the HR20 won't be able to access your recordings.


Can't be true. You already paid for time-shifting them.

Ebovanichich, cleanup in aisle six.


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## rjnerd (May 28, 2007)

ccg83 said:


> What about the HR-20?


Well since it is most likely leased, when you cancel the account, they get it back. (and you may be stuck with an early cancel fee)


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## videojanitor (Dec 21, 2001)

Redux said:


> Can't be true. You already paid for time-shifting them.


Hey now! I didn't say it WAS true, I said it would "seem" to be true, based on what happened to me several times when my DVR service was deactivated. It wouldn't let me play anything.


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## MisterEd (Jun 6, 2001)

Not sure about the closed account but unless it was recently fixed if there is no satellite signal It IS true. If the HR20 is not getting satellite signal (and has been reset after the sig is removed) it will not play back what has been previously recorded. Our company wanted to take one to a HD lobby demo for a prospective customer and it embarrassingly wouldn't work.


Redux said:


> Can't be true. You already paid for time-shifting them.
> 
> Ebovanichich, cleanup in aisle six.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

in case anyone else reading has HDtivo and disconnects, make sure you unplug the sat. before you unsub. then you will avoid the nag screen.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

I just want to reiterate this post.


feobrien said:


> I thought it was illegal to prevent the installation of DTV dishes by home owner associations, etc. See link: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html It is probably up to you how hard you want to push your townhome association.


Again, it is against the law preventing you from installing a dish, within certain guidelines.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Redux said:


> Can't be true. You already paid for time-shifting them.
> 
> Ebovanichich, cleanup in aisle six.


It is true...
The HR20 at this time, will not playback recordings without a sat signal.

As for "you already paid for time-shifting them"...
Yes you did.. but you didn't pay for an eternal storage of those systems with the DVR.

Cleanup in aisle "six"... cute.


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

JimSpence said:


> I just want to reiterate this post.Again, it is against the law preventing you from installing a dish, within certain guidelines.


Exactly.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Yep, they can't stop you from putting up a dish unless you have no property that is exclusively yours (patio or balcony for example). It's against the law if they try to stop you.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

ebonovic said:


> It is true...
> The HR20 at this time, will not playback recordings without a sat signal.


wow that bites...during our infreq. rain outages, we dont even notice the disruptions until we get to the affected program, accidentally hit 'live' and love that we do have the ability to watch stuff even during outages.

I pity the folk that have frequent outages with HDDVR as it must just be like cable. And maybe cable's ads are now actually accurate that satellite goes 'out' when it rains


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

newsposter said:


> wow that bites...during our infreq. rain outages, we dont even notice the disruptions until we get to the affected program, accidentally hit 'live' and love that we do have the ability to watch stuff even during outages.
> 
> I pity the folk that have frequent outages with HDDVR as it must just be like cable. And maybe cable's ads are now actually accurate that satellite goes 'out' when it rains


In that scenerio... it will work fine.

It is if you start up the system and it doesn't have a SAT signal...
They are working on resolving the dependencies of the SAT signal being present at start up, to still have access to pre-recorded material.


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## ccg83 (Jun 24, 2004)

Upon furthur inspection... I am not 100% prohibbited from having a Sat dish....but they damn sure do ot make it easy.

For starters, I have to have it out of the line of vision from the street, so that means I have to put it by the patio in the back...which is infested by trees....that I can't touch. ALSO in my Homeowners Association Fees they "include" basic comcast cable at a $50 value which I have to pay regardless of my having the service or not...the HOA refuses to give the credit for not having comcast.

Although the CSR at DTV suggested that I suspend my service but not cancel it for like 3 or 6 months so that my cancel fee would be pro-rated at a lower cost....so I wonder if my service is concidered active but suspended will I be able to use the HDDVR HR20 as a standalone until I can get the recorded content off?


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Neither the HR10 nor HR20 can record from cable. In fact, both require active satellite service to record at all.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

ccg83 said:


> ALSO in my Homeowners Association Fees they "include" basic comcast cable at a $50 value which I have to pay regardless of my having the service or not...the HOA refuses to give the credit for not having comcast.


This is not enforceable in most states but I'm not sure about Florida.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

ccg83 said:


> For starters, I have to have it out of the line of vision from the street, so that means I have to put it by the patio in the back...which is infested by trees....that I can't touch.


If you cannot get a line of site in the back because of trees they cannot by law prevent you from putting it in the front, even if it is visable by the street. So long as where you would put it in the front is all yours then you can do it, their rules do not apply.

THIS (and many other things) is why I will never, ever, move to a place with a HOA. No HOA nazi is going to tell me I can't put up a sat dish or I can't have my camper in my driveway the day before a trip to load it up. I don't think so.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

rminsk said:


> This is not enforceable in most states but I'm not sure about Florida.


Why wouldn't it be enforcable? The condo board probably made a deal with Comcast, entire building for one set monthly fee. If the board passes it I don't see why it wouldn't be enforcable, but I'm not an attorney. No doubt it was in the paperwork when he bought the condo.

I can easily see why they could not give one resident a refund on the cost. What are they suppose to do change every one's monthly cost every time an owner changes his mind?


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## stevmead (Oct 21, 2002)

bonscott87THIS (and many other things) is why I will never said:


> Or a junker pickup truck, without wheels, sitting on cinder blocks for 6 months.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

stevmead said:


> Or a junker pickup truck, without wheels, sitting on cinder blocks for 6 months.


LOL. Of course that would be illegal in the city I live in and it is enforced (as is mowing your lawn and shoveling snow). Just gotta choose your city/town well I guess.


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## stevmead (Oct 21, 2002)

Like with most things, pluses and minuses depending on your perspective.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

stevmead said:


> Like with most things, pluses and minuses depending on your perspective.


Yeppers.


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## Crash_Corrigan (Feb 27, 2004)

HiDefGator said:


> Why wouldn't it be enforcable? The condo board probably made a deal with Comcast, entire building for one set monthly fee. If the board passes it I don't see why it wouldn't be enforcable, but I'm not an attorney. No doubt it was in the paperwork when he bought the condo.
> 
> I can easily see why they could not give one resident a refund on the cost. What are they suppose to do change every one's monthly cost every time an owner changes his mind?


For the most part, the FCC rules about antennas and mini sat dishes supersede both local government and condo/HOA restrictions; however, there are special rules for multi-family developments. See the FCC Fact Sheet below for all the nitty gritty details. Bottom line, if you follow the FCC guidelines and can get a signal from a private outdoor space (like a deck or patio) your condo association or HOA can't prevent you from putting up an antenna or dish. However, if you need to install the dish on the building structure (if its considered a "common element") or put it on common ground, you may be SOL without permission from the condo association.

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html


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## davidjplatt (Aug 27, 2003)

ccg83 said:


> Upon furthur inspection... I am not 100% prohibbited from having a Sat dish....but they damn sure do ot make it easy.
> 
> For starters, I have to have it out of the line of vision from the street, so that means I have to put it by the patio in the back...which is infested by trees....that I can't touch. ALSO in my Homeowners Association Fees they "include" basic comcast cable at a $50 value which I have to pay regardless of my having the service or not...the HOA refuses to give the credit for not having comcast.
> 
> Although the CSR at DTV suggested that I suspend my service but not cancel it for like 3 or 6 months so that my cancel fee would be pro-rated at a lower cost....so I wonder if my service is concidered active but suspended will I be able to use the HDDVR HR20 as a standalone until I can get the recorded content off?


_*They cannot make you put the antenna on the back of the house if you can't get a signal. Period. End of Story. Right from the OTARD FAQ:*_

Q: What restrictions prevent a viewer from receiving an acceptable quality signal? *Can a homeowners association or other restricting entity establish enforceable preferences for antenna locations?*

A: For antennas designed to receive analog signals, such as TVBS, a requirement that an antenna be located where reception would be impossible or substantially degraded is prohibited by the rule. *However, a regulation requiring that antennas be placed where they are not visible from the street would be permissible if this placement does not prevent reception of an acceptable quality signal or impose unreasonable expense or delay. For example, if installing an antenna in the rear of the house costs significantly more than installation on the side of the house, then such a requirement would be prohibited. If, however, installation in the rear of the house does not impose unreasonable expense or delay or preclude reception of an acceptable quality signal, then the restriction is permissible and the viewer must comply.*

The acceptable quality signal standard is different for devices designed to receive digital signals, such as DBS antennas, digital broadband radio service antennas, digital television ("DTV") antennas, and digital fixed wireless antennas. *For a digital antenna to receive or transmit an acceptable quality signal, the antenna must be installed where it has an unobstructed, direct view of the satellite or other device from which signals are received or to which signals are to be transmitted. Unlike analog antennas, digital antennas, even in the presence of sufficient over-the-air signal strength, will at times provide no picture or sound unless they are placed and oriented properly. *


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## ccg83 (Jun 24, 2004)

stevel said:


> Neither the HR10 nor HR20 can record from cable. In fact, both require active satellite service to record at all.


Not looking to record...I just want to access my saved content for a few weeks until I can DVD record the things I want to keep.

Thanks for all the advice, the condo is beautiful and the payments are nice so thats why I decided to go with it...didnt quite realize the Nazi regime I was walking into tho until I was 2 far into the process.


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## annenoe (Oct 19, 2003)

I am on the board of a small association in California. Many HOA Boards are in fact a pack of power hungry, insane *********s. 

They have no right to do this. This is a right guaranteed by the FEDERAL government. I would encourage you to seek legal advice. You have a rogue board, they can be very, very dangerous. This is probably the tip of the iceberg.


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## cramer (Aug 14, 2000)

ccg83 said:


> Upon furthur inspection... I am not 100% prohibbited from having a Sat dish....but they damn sure do ot make it easy.
> 
> For starters, I have to have it out of the line of vision from the street...


They cannot restrict the placement of your dish on your own property... with exactly two exceptions: a legally recognized historic site, and where placing the dish would pose a safety hazard or otherwise violate building code. The FCC has sided with the homeowner over the HOA in every case I've read. If any restriction adds one cent or one second, the FCC throws it out.

Such crap has been in the bylaws of my HOA since it's formation 24 years ago. Even today, after numerous cases where such covenants have been legally silenced, it's still in the charter. However, there's a paragraph at the end saying "it's still in court." I understand the logic of the original '83 wording... a dish back then was several meters in diameter. Today it's more about aesthetics; and I'm one of those that don't want to look across the community and see nothing but dish's. Most people don't give any thought at all to placing their dish(s) where they will work but still be mostly out of sight. My dish is mounted just below the apex of the roof -- on the back roof -- next to the chimney. You see much more of the chimney than the dish. I'd love to have it completely out of view, but trees make it impossible to mount it much lower and the 60deg slope of the back roof makes it unduely difficult to reach of better spot.


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## Dick Kalagher (Jan 13, 2000)

So with an HR10-250 you don't need service to watch recorded shows? Is this true of SD Tivos too? anybody verify?


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

Dick Kalagher said:


> So with an HR10-250 you don't need service to watch recorded shows? Is this true of SD Tivos too? anybody verify?


Yep.

I've got an HR10 hooked up right now w/o service, and I'm watching the rest of our recorded shows from the NP list.

The same goes with the DTiVo SD units.


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

ccg83 said:


> Not looking to record...I just want to access my saved content for a few weeks until I can DVD record the things I want to keep.
> 
> Thanks for all the advice, the condo is beautiful and the payments are nice so thats why I decided to go with it...didnt quite realize the Nazi regime I was walking into tho until I was 2 far into the process.


AS you may have figured out by now, you can continue to access the already recorded content on your HR10 even after it has been unplugged from the sat feed. Additionally, you can hook it up to an OTA antenna and enjoy local OTA broadcasts, although you will enevtually run out of guide data. As to whether you will continue to be able to record OTA, you will likely not be able to continue OTA recordings for much more than 30 days after the unit has been disconnected from the sat feeds. I believe captain video has posted in this forum on his experience in this matter.


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## dslunceford (Oct 19, 2000)

I'd simply provide the FCC regulations to the HOA/condo board and tell them you plan to install a dish if you really want it. Do not let them bully you, if they have legal counsel (which they should) I would think that person, if they represent many HOAs, should be able to provide them with the appropriate counsel that it wouldn't be wise/cost-effective to take on a federal mandated right in court.

As stated elsewhere, I don't think you have any recourse or "right" to any sort of rebate off condo fees for the shared cable cost -- that's a service that the association voted on and agreed to fund -- much like a pool cost or other amenity that not everyone will avail themselves of, but that makes the development more attractive in general. If you don't like the cost, then bring forward a motion to remove the cost at the end of the next contract cycle and have the association vote on it.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

It is true. No sat, no sub, no watch, on the HR20.


Redux said:


> Can't be true. You already paid for time-shifting them.
> 
> Ebovanichich, cleanup in aisle six.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

This is true but there are a number of qualification that MAY preclude you from installing your own dish within that law.


dslunceford said:


> I'd simply provide the FCC regulations to the HOA/condo board and tell them you plan to install a dish if you really want it. Do not let them bully you, if they have legal counsel (which they should) I would think that person, if they represent many HOAs, should be able to provide them with the appropriate counsel that it wouldn't be wise/cost-effective to take on a federal mandated right in court.
> 
> As stated elsewhere, I don't think you have any recourse or "right" to any sort of rebate off condo fees for the shared cable cost -- that's a service that the association voted on and agreed to fund -- much like a pool cost or other amenity that not everyone will avail themselves of, but that makes the development more attractive in general. If you don't like the cost, then bring forward a motion to remove the cost at the end of the next contract cycle and have the association vote on it.


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