# Is my house MoCa ready? Cutting cord w/ OTA



## FrankTivo (Oct 4, 2016)

I've looked and can't find an answer. Currently have Atlantic BB TV/Internet coming into the house thru one cable outside the garage. The cable goes into a splitter and 4 cables come out, which lead to 4 different rooms in my house. We have an Atlantic BB provided Gateway (modem/router) that is connected to one of those cords thru receptacle in dining room. I checked the model # of the gateway and it is MoCa ready. The other 3 cables lead to various rooms w/ Tivo DVR and Tivo minis. All that is going away. I'm having AtlanticBB turn off the TV, but we'll keep the internet. I've bought a new gateway that is MoCa ready that I intend to put where the old one was. I've got a new Roamio OTA that I intend to put in the bedroom w/ antenna connected. And a new Tivo mini to put in the living room. So here's the question, do I need anything else (like a Tivo Bridge)? Can I just plug all these Tivos into their respective walls and the MoCa-ready gateway will take care of it all? It can't be that easy, right?
Thanks for any help!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: Roamio OTA networking:* The Roamio OTA lacks any MoCA capability; therefore, if it cannot be networked via Ethernet, then you'll need an additional MoCA adapter co-located with the Roamio OTA to provide it with a wired network connection. (The Roamio OTA would be connected to the MoCA adapter's Ethernet port, and so the Roamio will be configured for an Ethernet connection.)

*MoCA-ready vs MoCA-capable gateways?: *Not sure what you mean by "MoCA-ready" in terms of your cable gateways. Do you mean that they are capable of establishing your MoCA network, or simply that they have been designed & built such that they won't become unstable if MoCA is active on the coax lines? Basically, if your gateways can establish your MoCA networks -- that is, they're *MoCA-capable* -- then you may just need the one MoCA adapter to provide a wired networking connection for the Roamio OTA; otherwise, if the gateways are really just *MoCA-ready* then you'll need one MoCA adapter, connected to your coax lines and the Ethernet LAN ports of your gateway, to establish your MoCA network, and maybe a 2nd MoCA adapter for the Roamio OTA, as detailed above.

What brand/model cable gateway have you purchased?

*Other MoCA considerations:*

That initial splitter may or may not be MoCA-friendly; and you'll want to ensure any additional splitters are upgraded if you have difficulties getting MoCA working or find it underperforming. (Here are some alternatives, if needed)

You'll want to verify that you have a PoE MoCA filter installed on the incoming coax line from Atlantic BB. Since you are already running MoCA, you should have this in place already, ideally on the input to the 4-way splitter described in the OP.

*Re: Roamio OTA antenna:* How will the antenna be routed to the Roamio OTA? If it's an in-room antenna, you'll be able to connect it directly to the Roamio OTA's coax in port; done! However, if you were planning on using a roof-mounted antenna and using your existing coax lines to get the signal to the Roamio OTA, there will be some additional information needed.


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## FrankTivo (Oct 4, 2016)

Thanks! The gateway I'm buying is: https://www.amazon.com/SURFboard-SB...d=1475627505&sr=1-1&keywords=surf+docsis+6782 It can establish a MoCa network I believe, the same as the one I have from AtlanticBB now (a CISCO model). The antenna will be connected directly to the OTA in the bedroom. The OTA would then be connected via coax to the wall outlet, which leads back to the outside splitter. I was planning to put the gateway downstairs in another room, plugged into the coax wall outlet (that leads back to the AtlanticBB provided 4-way splitter outside - as do all the outlets).
I called Tivo support and described my setup to the woman and she said, "just plug it all in to the coax outlets, it should work and you shouldn't need a Tivo Bridge. She said, "your house is already MoCa ready". I assume she deduced that because all the TVs are plugged straight into the coax wall outlets which all lead back to the one splitter outside the garage. I just was stunned it was that easy after everything I've read about setting up a MoCa network.
Also, I'm assuming there's a PoE filter somewhere, but I also thought that was ONLY a filter for cable TV and was not necessary for internet only?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

FrankTivo said:


> The gateway I'm buying is: https://www.amazon.com/SURFboard-SB...d=1475627505&sr=1-1&keywords=surf+docsis+6782* It can establish a MoCa network I believe*, the same as the one I have from AtlanticBB now (a CISCO model).


Yes, indeed, per the SBG6782-AC's product page and user guide:
* MoCA 1.1 Access Point​That'll take care of creating your MoCA network.



FrankTivo said:


> I was planning to put the gateway downstairs in another room, plugged into the coax wall outlet (that leads back to the AtlanticBB provided 4-way splitter outside - as do all the outlets).


Sounds good.



FrankTivo said:


> The antenna will be connected directly to the OTA in the bedroom.


Also good.



FrankTivo said:


> The OTA would then be connected via coax to the wall outlet, which leads back to the outside splitter.


Not quite. The Roamio OTA's coax should be a direct coax run between the Roamio OTA and the antenna, nothing else.

The coax coming from the wall outlet in the Roamio OTA's room will need to connect to a MoCA adapter located next to the Roamio OTA to provide the Roamio with its wired networking connection.

You may need to re-read the first bullet in my above post:


krkaufman said:


> * *Re: Roamio OTA networking:* The Roamio OTA lacks any MoCA capability; therefore, if it cannot be networked via Ethernet, then you'll need an additional MoCA adapter co-located with the Roamio OTA to provide it with a wired network connection. (The Roamio OTA would be connected to the MoCA adapter's Ethernet port, and so the Roamio will be configured for an Ethernet connection.)





FrankTivo said:


> I called Tivo support and described my setup to the woman and she said, "just plug it all in to the coax outlets, it should work and you shouldn't need a Tivo Bridge. She said, "your house is already MoCa ready". I assume she deduced that because all the TVs are plugged straight into the coax wall outlets which all lead back to the one splitter outside the garage. I just was stunned it was that easy after everything I've read about setting up a MoCa network.


You are certainly free to follow her advice, but I'd recommend you bookmark this thread for when her advice falls a bit short and you find yourself with a Roamio OTA that can't connect to the Internet. 

Your coax network *is* MoCA-ready, especially since you have a cable gateway that can establish your MoCA network and you've already proven your basic coax components can support MoCA, what with an existing MoCA network in place. However, your Roamio OTA will need help connecting to the new MoCA network, per the above.



FrankTivo said:


> Also, I'm assuming there's a PoE filter somewhere, but I also thought that was ONLY a filter for cable TV and was not necessary for internet only?


The PoE MoCA filter is to secure and strengthen your MoCA network, keeping your MoCA network isolated to your coax lines, keeping neighboring MoCA networks off your lines, and boosting the performance of your MoCA network by efficiently reflecting MoCA signals back down your coax lines.

I'd recommend tracing from the input of that 4-way splitter back up the coax line, into the cable box if possible, to see if a PoE MoCA filter is in place. Not having the filter in place may not prevent your MoCA devices from connecting, but its absence would leave your network vulnerable and operating beneath its potential.

Once you have a few Minis connected via MoCA, you can use the following info to check their MoCA stats:
Checking MoCA connection quality​


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Note that since the Roamio OTA is limited by its Fast Ethernet port, you might be able to save a few dollars by getting a MoCA 1.1 adapter, rather than shelling out for a 'TiVo Bridge' or some other MoCA 2.0 adapter. A MoCA 2.0 adapter would further be overkill (unless the price is right) since both the TiVo Minis and your cable gateway only support MoCA 1.1.

edit: p.s. Tweaking a past post to reflect current prices, here's what's available via Amazon...


krkaufman said:


> Unfortunately, the ECB2500C adapters aren't all that much cheaper than the MoCA 2.0 adapters; something to keep in mind when shopping. Another thing to note is that it's [aname=mocaadapterpricing]typically cheaper, per adapter, to buy MoCA adapters in pairs.[/aname]
> 
> (1x) ECB2500C - $72
> (2x) ECB2500C - $120
> ...


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

I would not follow the directions from TiVo telephone tech support. They are typically ignorants, and don't even own a Tivo in their own house.

You are lucky that Karl is helping you with this, and please bookmark this thread.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> However, your Roamio OTA will need help connecting to the new MoCA network, per the above.


p.s. Just to be clear, I expect that your existing Atlantic BB TiVo DVR was MoCA-capable (right?), and so could connect directly to a MoCA network; however, the 4-tuner Roamio models lack any MoCA capability. So that's the main difference you'll need to account for.


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## philt56 (Aug 22, 2008)

Wasn't clear if you were tossing your old minis? They should be fine in your new setup also. The new minis font really add much in new functionally other than the remote I believe.


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## FrankTivo (Oct 4, 2016)

Thanks everyone! The old equipment belongs to the cable company, so it's all going back tomorrow. I already bought a Tivo Bridge, so I'll just stick with it. I completely believe you when you say I need it, but being an engineer, I still need to understand why, which I don't yet. Maybe I'm hung up on "MoCa Network". If the gateway establishes the network, which in my mind means that the TV signal from the antenna should be able to bounce around among all the coax terminals in my house, then why do I need another device that also establishes a MoCa network? Seems duplicative? Or is it that the OTA can't "talk" to the network w/o the Bridge? Is there a way to plug the OTA into the gateway and not need the bridge?


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

FrankTivo said:


> ... is it that the OTA can't "talk" to the network w/o the Bridge?


Yes


> Is there a way to plug the OTA into the gateway and not need the bridge?


Of course. Just run an ethernet cable from the gateway to the OTA. If you can't do that and only have coax in that room, then you'll need to stick with the original Moca Bridge plan.

Moca's purpose in life is to connect devices in places where only coax is available. If you can run ethernet cables, by all means forget Moca and go ahead with your wiring project. That's usually prohibitively expensive and difficult for those of use with pre-internet homes full of coax.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

FrankTivo said:


> If the gateway establishes the network...


... then the gateway is doing the same for MoCA as it is for your wireless network, establishing the network and bridging it to your Ethernet LAN. The wireless signals are floating through the air, but the MoCA signals are confined to your coax lines.

All your other MoCA devices will be clients, simply connecting to the coax MoCA network established by your gateway -- just as your laptops and smartphones connect as clients to your gateway's wireless network.

And... since the Roamio OTA lacks any MoCA capability, it requires the assistance of a standalone MoCA adapter to make the connection. This is similar to older TiVos or game consoles that lacked built-in wireless capability, and so required an external wireless adapter to make the connection.



FrankTivo said:


> ... which in my mind means that the TV signal from the antenna should be able to bounce around among all the coax terminals in my house, then why do I need another device that also establishes a MoCa network? Seems duplicative?


Hopefully the above cleared this up.



FrankTivo said:


> Or is it that the OTA can't "talk" to the network w/o the Bridge?


Correct.



FrankTivo said:


> Is there a way to plug the OTA into the gateway and not need the bridge?


Sure, as stated above, if you can connect it via Ethernet.


krkaufman said:


> [*]*Re: Roamio OTA networking:* The Roamio OTA lacks any MoCA capability; therefore, * if it cannot be networked via Ethernet*, then you'll need an additional MoCA adapter co-located with the Roamio OTA to provide it with a wired network connection. (The Roamio OTA would be connected to the MoCA adapter's Ethernet port, and so the Roamio will be configured for an Ethernet connection.)



Just to be clear, your various TiVo devices just need to have a wired networking connection, and you can have a mix of Ethernet and MoCA. So, for example, your Roamio OTA could be connected via Ethernet and your Mini via MoCA... no problem.


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## FrankTivo (Oct 4, 2016)

Thanks Guys, really appreciate the help and explanations. Now if the mail would just arrive with the new gateway I can get this stuff working! Take care.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

FrankTivo said:


> Thanks Guys, really appreciate the help and explanations. Now if the mail would just arrive with the new gateway I can get this stuff working! Take care.


Happy to be of potential help. Good luck, and let us know how it works out (and what you opted for as a final config) ...


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## FrankTivo (Oct 4, 2016)

Got the gateway, all seems to be working well. Put the Bridge on the OTA Roamio in one room, gateway in another and Mini in another. When i called to activate the Mini, the Tivo guy started asking me about splitters and said the 1002mhz splitter that Atlantic BB had installed would work, for now, but that I should get a new one of at least 1500mhz because that's what MoCa operates up to. Also said I should get a POE filter. So now I'm looking at splitters and found another thread where nooneuknow was telling everyone not to bother with splitters above 1ghz (though he was talking about cable connections, not sure if OTA makes a difference there). So, any suggestions on a 4-way splitter and a POE filter? Thanks as always!


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## FrankTivo (Oct 4, 2016)

I did also notice that the OTA Roamio tuner doesn't seem to tune as well as my TV's tuner. Some channels I got perfectly w/ the antenna hooked directly to the tuner have some noise thru the OTA. Is that to be expected?


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

FrankTivo said:


> I did also notice that the OTA Roamio tuner doesn't seem to tune as well as my TV's tuner. Some channels I got perfectly w/ the antenna hooked directly to the tuner have some noise thru the OTA. Is that to be expected?


All those splits and Moca are going to have a big effect on your signal. I'd try to isolate the OTA run if I were you, or possibly use diplexers. I use diplexers in my Tivo OTA system and the signal strength is pretty good. I also try to keep my Moca network mostly isolated from my OTA signal as there is no reason to be splitting a very weak OTA signal and sending it all through the house when in reality only one box, your main Tivo OTA, needs it.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

FrankTivo said:


> the Tivo guy started asking me about splitters and said the 1002mhz splitter that Atlantic BB had installed would work, for now, but that I should get a new one of at least 1500mhz because that's what MoCa operates up to. ... So now I'm looking at splitters and found another thread where nooneuknow was telling everyone not to bother with splitters above 1ghz ...


The TiVo comment isn't wrong, exactly, but it wasn't entirely factually on-point, either.

Yes, the spec'd frequency range for MoCA 1.1 (i.e. what the Mini supports) is 1125-1525 MHz; however, your MoCA 1.1 devices only need one 50 MHz-wide channel to operate, typically at the lowest channel (15) which has a frequency range of 1125-1175 MHz. This is why nooneyouknow indicates the typical cable TV splitter (5-1002 MHz) is sufficient, because splitters don't work like filters (i.e. there isn't a steep attenuation change outside their spec'd range) and the MoCA channel 15 frequency range is close enough to the splitter's spec'd range that signals will pass with little more attenuation than seen for cable TV signals.

Whether you need to upgrade your coax components (splitters, amp, cabling) is dependent on the performance you're currently seeing, and, later, whether you're looking to upgrade to a newer MoCA spec (2.0, 2.5!) that requires wider bandwidth.

You can check your current MoCA stats, to see if there's room for improvement and/or to provide a baseline for your setup, using the following procedure:
Checking MoCA connection quality​


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## FrankTivo (Oct 4, 2016)

I checked the status of both nodes. The lowest number was 235, so I'm assuming that means the splitter is OK? But I still need a POE filter, correct? Should I get the Tivo brand one, or is there something else better? Really appreciate your help, thanks so much!


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## FrankTivo (Oct 4, 2016)

I should clarify, I KNOW I need a POE filter where the internet cable enters the house, before the 4-way splitter. The question is, do I need one between the OTA Roamio and the antenna which is plugged directly into the Roamio, i.e, no splitter?


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

FrankTivo said:


> I should clarify, I KNOW I need a POE filter where the internet cable enters the house, before the 4-way splitter. The question is, do I need one between the OTA Roamio and the antenna which is plugged directly into the Roamio, i.e, no splitter?


No,
The OTA does not generate a MoCA signal so nothing is going to go back up the coax to the antenna.


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## everythingisawesome (Feb 25, 2017)

I just came in here to say thanks for the info. i've been digging through this forum for 3 weeks now trying to find clear explanations of the equipment needed and why they are needed for MoCA networks similar to the one i'm attempting. This thread covers it very well. My poe filter and upgraded splitter are coming this week and i hope to be up and running soon after with my Roamio OTA and Mini. Thanks to krkaufman!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

everythingisawesome said:


> i've been digging through this forum for 3 weeks now trying to find clear explanations of the equipment needed and why they are needed for MoCA networks similar to the one i'm attempting.


Don't hesitate to start a thread seeking clarification or confirmation -- text description and/or diagrammed. Measure twice, eh... (Plus, every config variation posted only improves the "library.")


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## FrankTivo (Oct 4, 2016)

Hey! It's been awhile, and thanks to KrKaufman, our cable cutting experiment has been going along great! Until about a month ago... We were just sitting watching Netflix or maybe something on the DVR one night (from the mini) and all of a sudden it said we lost our connection w/ the main DVR (OTA roamio). So short story, it seems that we're no longer getting an internet connection to the OTA thru the moca. Nothing changed, nobody was doing anything (in the house anyway), it just stopped. After some attempts at troubleshooting, I realize the ISP provider had locked the outside box where the splitter (I think there's a POE in there too) is. Did find a hack to make the tool out of fork, but haven't tried it yet. wondering if there's a logical way to troubleshoot this without just starting to order and install new components? My best guess is the splitter gave out, but not sure. The Settings: Network Status (or whatever the menu is at the OTA) says no internet connection. The mini's say they can't talk to the main OTA. The Port Test shows 4 ports that need opening or something by our ISP. But I think I called and they said they were open (not positive about that, but I think I did after a call to Tivo). Thanks for any advice! Really appreciate it.
As a refresher, so you don't have to dig thru the whole thread to figure out the setup: We have ISP coming into the outside box, where I think there's a POE then a 4 way splitter. From one split the moca capable gateway is connected, from two others are tivo minis, and from the last is the OTA via Tivo Bridge and the OTA is connected directly to the antenna.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

I'd start by verifying that MoCA is still enabled at the Gateway.

After that, power the whole shebang down and bring things online one at a time verifying function on each one before powering on the next.

-KP


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## FrankTivo (Oct 4, 2016)

Thanks. Not sure how to verify it's enabled at the gateway? The proper and usual lights are lit. I've done the power down thing several times to no avail.


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## Scott9mm (Apr 5, 2015)

You may have a signal amplifier in that box outside the house. If so that amplifier requires power and maybe that circuit has tripped. Happened to me; the little transformer for that amp was plugged into a GFCI circuit that tripped during a thunder storm.


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## FrankTivo (Oct 4, 2016)

Thanks, but I know for certain there's no amp. Sounds like I may have to break into the box.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

FrankTivo said:


> Thanks. Not sure how to verify it's enabled at the gateway? The proper and usual lights are lit. I've done the power down thing several times to no avail.


Log in to the router at http://10.0.0.1

Probably :

admin
password

At that point, you'll be directed to change the password. Don't forget what you change it to.

Click on the Xfinity Network link.

Find the MoCA settings.

Verify they're enabled.

The selections are possible to misinterpret, so be careful.

There's actually a very tiny light indicating that MoCA's active on the back of the unit.


















From here:

https://secure.xfinity.com/anon.com...220_Wireless_Gateway_3_UserGuide_06_19_15.pdf

-KP


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## FrankTivo (Oct 4, 2016)

here's a screenshot of my moca page. Looks ok I think.


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## FrankTivo (Oct 4, 2016)

Does this look right? I think this is how I entered the ports that tivo said I needed open.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

You router is only indicating 3 MoCA Nodes, which seems shy to me.

You shouldn't really need to open ports like that.

If you connect everything up in one room with short cables, do you get all the Nodes to connect? If so, that would indicate the issue is wiring/connections/splitters.

-KP


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