# Nero launch Tivo/Liquid TV in the US



## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

http://www.nero.com/enu/liquidtv-introduction.html?NeroSID=384fbea18d35672744d9879c9ede939f

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/09/29/nero-liquidtv-tivo-pc-brings-tivo-interface-to-the-pc/

So it looks like Nero are launching an ATSC tuner card + Tivo front-end solution to run on a PC. It includes streaming between Tivo and Tivo PCs and export to PSP/iPod.

$199 including 1 year Tivo sub, ATSC tuner and Nero branded Tivo remote according to Engadget - though Nero suggests the remote and blasters are separate purchases. FAQ suggests $199 includes tuner and remote, $99 version is software only. Both include 12 months Tivo subscription.

Looks to be a US product - no idea if we'll ever see it over here... The FAQ mentions announcements about Worldwide availability in 2009, with a US launch in October 2008.


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## britcub (Jan 19, 2004)

We can only keep our fingers crossed for a UK version


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## Jimus (Dec 28, 2005)

Cmon TiVo, my box is on its last legs (have sound probs needing multiple reboots) get it here fast!

Maybe Santa could intervene on our behalf in time for Xmas

Jimus


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## s2kdave (Jan 28, 2005)

Jimus said:


> Cmon TiVo, my box is on its last legs (have sound probs needing multiple reboots) get it here fast!
> 
> Maybe Santa could intervene on our behalf in time for Xmas
> 
> Jimus


On the Nero site it says it releases Oct. 2008


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## laurence (Jun 17, 2007)

They got that sorted out pretty quick! I'm sure they only announced a deal to write that about 6 months ago or so. I wonder if that will impact on prospects for a standalone box for the UK.
All very exciting though!


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

I guess the TiVo software code is fairly platform neutral. Or its running under a Linux virtual machine.


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## Pugwash (May 23, 2003)

Looks promising. I can only hope that this will work on any tuners that Vista/XP can handle, and I have two of those since I tried MCE and was sorely disappointed.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> They got that sorted out pretty quick! I'm sure they only announced a deal to write that about 6 months ago or so.


They were demo-ing a PC version as early as CES 2005/6


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## s2kdave (Jan 28, 2005)

TCM2007 said:


> I guess the TiVo software code is fairly platform neutral. Or its running under a Linux virtual machine.


That little black box with the tivo logo on it is probably a linux machine without any peripherals or tuner card and the nero stuff probably talks to it via some protocol they agreed upon.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

No, it's just an infra red receiver.
The software only package will be available on their site as a $99 download:
http://www.nero.com/enu/store-liquidtv.html

The software supports up to 4 tuners with BDA drivers (like MCE uses),
so it should be a drop in replacement for MCE 

Note that the $99 includes 1st years subs... $99/yr after that.


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## mista_c (Aug 2, 2003)

I wonder if you are able to purchase a lifetime sub for this?


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

I find it rather ironic that the second screenshot here has 'Suggestions (0)'.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

mikerr said:


> No, its just an infra red receiver.
> The software only package will be available on their site as a $99 download:
> http://www.nero.com/enu/store-liquidtv.html
> 
> ...


Now that would be a tough call if it were made available in the UK.

While I love MCE's extender system, and the way it combines all media in one box, I know my Mrs would have TiVo back in a flash.


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## mini__me (Jun 11, 2002)

Would be good if this could work with dvb-s2 tuners in the UK


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

s2kdave said:


> On the Nero site it says it releases Oct. 2008


That's the US/Canada ATSC release date. There is a note in the FAQ that announcements about other (presumably DVB) regions will be made in 2009...


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> They got that sorted out pretty quick! I'm sure they only announced a deal to write that about 6 months ago or so. I wonder if that will impact on prospects for a standalone box for the UK.
> All very exciting though!


Deal announced a lot longer ago than that - sometime in 2007 ISTR?


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

s2kdave said:


> That little black box with the tivo logo on it is probably a linux machine without any peripherals or tuner card and the nero stuff probably talks to it via some protocol they agreed upon.


Nope - that is an IR Receiver (and Blaster for set-top box control I think) - and is optional. The Tivo software can be bought without hardware for $99.


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

mini__me said:


> Would be good if this could work with dvb-s2 tuners in the UK


Though there is no point officially supporting DVB-S2 in the UK until Sky officially release a Videoguard receiver system is there? There are no DVB-S2 broadcasts for the UK that are not currently Videoguard encrypted. BBC HD, ITV HD and Luxe TV HD are all DVB-S.

Of course you CAN get 3rd party, unofficial Videoguard-compatible CAMs, but I'm not sure fully commercial operations can be seen to support them.

I don't know if the beta FireDTVS2 MCE-native (i.e. non-DVB-T spoofing) drivers for use with Vista TV Pack somehow add DVB-S2 support ? (There is a non-timebombed H264 DLL now...)


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## mdolan (Jun 4, 2002)

Hmmm.

A (p)review of it here:

http://blogs.ft.com/techblog/2008/09/rom-burner-nero-fiddles-with-tivo-with-mixed-results/

"I suffered slow response times and stuttering video. The application also crashed repeatedly trying to update a programme guide."

"Nero told me the product was optimised for quad-core PCs and the crash was probably due to a firewall problem. I was eventually able to get it working and liked the familiar Tivo interface and its superior usability, but my experience shows the problems that can be encountered when Tivo is taken out of the safe environment of its own hardware."

Optimised for quad-core? Hmmm.

Cheers,
Mike


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## tivo525235 (Aug 21, 2004)

"However, the Nero deal should give Tivo more exposure in Europe, where the German company can help to promote it beyond its UK beachhead"

I have a feeling that beachhead is slipping away.


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## tivo525235 (Aug 21, 2004)

mdolan said:


> Optimised for quad-core? Hmmm.
> 
> Cheers,
> Mike


How on earth can the Tivo software require quad cores when our Series 1 units only have a 50Mhz cpu? I know the series 3 software is more advanced but something has clearly gone very wrong here.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

1st release written in VB.net or something

Bah, programmers these days and their fancy OO with no regard for execution speed:
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/programming-and-development/?p=60
It's not uncommon for a simple change of code to yield 100x speed increase as above.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

tivo525235 said:


> How on earth can the Tivo software require quad cores when our Series 1 units only have a 50Mhz cpu? I know the series 3 software is more advanced but something has clearly gone very wrong here.


Our 50Mhz CPU offloads loads of stuff to dedicated video chips and custom VLSIs; presumably those thing have to be done by the CPU in a PC. Especially as it supports H.264 video, which almost always gets dumped on the CPU, and is very hard work.

Remember that this won't be intended for dedicated PCs, but to work on a normal desktop used for normal things. It therefore needs to be able to do everything re: recording, processing guide data etc in the background without interfering with normal operation of a PC. If you reckon doing that takes up what one CPU core does, then you'd notice that on a dual core system, but not on a quad core.


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## tivo525235 (Aug 21, 2004)

h.264 can be decoded by most recent graphics chipsets.

Even a bluray can be played on a low end single core machine with a recent graphics card and most of the cpu usage there is the decryption not the h.264 decoding as shown by BBC HD using a mere 10&#37; cpu when decoding.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

The system requirements here indicate that a dual core PC running XP would be adequate - but I wouldn't risk it! http://www.nero.com/enu/liquidtv-system-requirements.html

Tivo marketing alert! I've just watched the videos here
http://www.nero.com/enu/liquidtv-video-demos.html
The voiceover artist does her best with the mouthful of "Nero Liquid TV Tivo PC" but it's not exactly snappy is it? "TV on your PC made easy" is also some kind of tongue twister to negotiate as a slogan.

I've got my reservations about Nero - I've had their suites of software installed with various disc burners in the past and I've always found them a bit patchy, esp. when multiple programs are expected to play nicely together.

It would be great to make the leap into HD by replacing Tivo, Freeview and the DVD player with a single media PC that supported 2 or more Freesat tuners with Tivo usability but I won't be holding my breath.


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

tivo525235 said:


> h.264 can be decoded by most recent graphics chipsets.
> 
> Even a bluray can be played on a low end single core machine with a recent graphics card and most of the cpu usage there is the decryption not the h.264 decoding as shown by BBC HD using a mere 10% cpu when decoding.


Yep - even integrated graphics on motherboards now support HD H264/VC-1/MPEG2 decoding - my 780G motherboard is fine playing HD-DVD and Blu-ray content as well as decoding BBC HD and ITV HD. No need for a posh graphics card - the motherboard has Radeon HD 3200 on-board.

I am only running a low-power AMD 4850e CPU. (Mobo and CPU cost less than £100 all up)

Nice quiet and cost effective Living Room PC.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

AMc said:


> The system requirements here indicate that a dual core PC running XP would be adequate .


Well they say there an ancient single core PC would be fine.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

> 3.0 GHz Intel® Pentium® IV processor or AMD Athlon™ XP 3200+ or Dual Core CPU with less GHz for analog channels and digital HD channels - 2.0 GHz Intel® Pentium® IV processor or AMD Athlon™ XP 2000+ or Dual Core CPU with less GHz for digital SD channels.


I skimmed and missed the P4 for analogue and digital HD. 
(Written on an ancient P3 2.8GHz PC)


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

Though I suspect the "digital HD" specs are for the US MPEG2 rather than the European H264 flavours of digital HD. MPEG2 is much less processor intensive - and can run on quite low-spec PCs if you are decoding with a CPU (not a graphics card).

However H264 can be decoded on a relatively low powered dual core processor if you have a modern graphics chipset with hardware acceleration for H264/VC-1 and MPEG2.


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## mas (Jan 12, 2002)

I read somewhere that they will not be supplying UK TV data for the software.

Maybe in the future....

Just when we all thought we had a modern replacement for our Tivo's (even if we need a PC as well).

Fingers Crossed...


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## Mostin (Mar 26, 2005)

What are we in the uk lepers? I honestly think murdoch has some inciminating pictures of the tivo bosses


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

He still has shares, doesn't he?


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

mas said:


> I read somewhere that they will not be supplying UK TV data for the software.
> 
> Maybe in the future....
> 
> ...


The FAQ on the website said that an announcement about the product outside of US/Canada would come in 2009. Presumably they don't want to run before they can walk?


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## mjk (Mar 13, 2002)

I see this as a major step forward for the long-term future of the TiVo technology. Their value has always been embodied in their software, primarily in the user interface. This product ties the software to another, well-established company, independent of special hardware.

I have a couple of Vista media centre systems, and I would load this software onto them in a heartbeat. I would even seriously think about putting together some new small media centre systems to replace my current TiVo systems.

It is easy to envisage the new software supporting file sharing between systems on the LAN which would be a major benefit, and we can get remote access using techology such as VNC.

I can't imagine that they would not see the UK as a suitable future market, especially given that the EPG infrastructure is already in place, and increasing the subscriber base can only improve the economics of providing that service.

Now, if only I could transfer my lifetime subscriptions to new systems .....


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## Tim L (Jan 5, 2002)

mjk said:


> I have a couple of Vista media centre systems, and I would load this software onto them in a heartbeat. I would even seriously think about putting together some new small media centre systems to replace my current TiVo systems.


I don't, but the possibility of being able to build a twin-tuner freeview Tivo would have me looking at quiet components to build a box quite enthusiastically.


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## EdGillett (Dec 19, 2002)

Apologies for the cross post - hadn't seen this thread.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=407937

EngadgetHD reviewed today and posted screenshots. Some good news, some bad - but on the whole, better for us UK Series 1 owners.

Too bad about the $99/year sub still though


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Did you think it was going to be sub free? TiVo's whole business model is based on subs.


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

I can't really see it competing with Vista MCE, which is far more established product.

It might appeal as an upgrade for a section of the remaining UK TiVo users, but the current non-TiVo user is far more likely to go for an established subscription-free product from Microsoft, than for a subscription-based product from an 'unknown' company like TiVo. Especially if they are already used to running a Microsoft operating system, and Xbox 360's.

Microsoft are also going to continually update and maintain MCE within their (selected) operating systems, and will always pursue a world-wide approach. I wouldn't trust TiVo to be able to stay in the long-term, anymore than they did before.

These products are aimed at the subscription-free services, such as FreeView and FreeSat. That means it is targetting those people who are already trying to avoid any form of subscription. It's not a good market for a subscription-based product to enter.

I'm not saying that it won't be a good product, once a couple of upgrades have occurred. But I just don't believe it has much of a chance for volume sales, given the current competition. Now if only they had managed to get it to work with a couple of Sky HD tuners ...

As an alternative to Sky+, it would sell like hot cakes.


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

iankb said:


> I can't really see it competing with Vista MCE, which is far more established product.


I'd hardly call Vista established, let alone Vista MCE. It's a niche product at the moment.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

iankb said:


> Microsoft are also going to continually update and maintain MCE within their (selected) operating systems, and will always pursue a world-wide approach.


That noise is me choking on my Maltesers.

The main problem with MCE/VMC is that MSFT have tied it in to the OS, and so it only receives any updates when the OS gets an update, ie once in it's entire product life to date, with a couple of bug fix releases.

The recent TV Pack cannot be user installed!

MSFT need to make VMC a standalone app with its own dev cycle.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

TCM2007 said:


> MSFT need to make VMC a standalone app with its own dev cycle.


Yes, or reduce the OS surrounding it so a media centre PC is less of a PC and more of a consumer device.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

mikerr is close to what I consider the truth here, and TCM is right in his conclusion.

VMC is like IE, way too tied into the OS so that it cannot be rebundled. That's why it's part of the MS update site and you can't download it for XP.

But think of the Corporate mind:


> We have this thing called 'XBOX' which allows playing games, TV and movies, and we make money from it! Then there's this VMC which allows people to watch TV, movies and games, but it requires a bit more outlay from the consumer because they get more flexibility. We still make money.


So, in the corporate MS mind, VMC is a competitor of XBox and therefore shall never be released outside it's native environment.


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## Raymond Day (May 13, 2002)

You can download Nero LiquidTV now for the past 3 days it's been up and I downloaded it to test for 30 days that they let you.

I installed it on a PC I been using Beyhond TV on for a wile. Beyond TV with my tuner card can get all the cable channels and HD from a Ant. I have. It has 2 cable inputs on the one ATI tuner card.

But with Nero LiquidTV it can't use both the cable and HD Ant. at the same time. Have to run the setup again to use one or the other.

Nero LiquidTV can't play HD or record HD good on my 2.4MHz 2 core CPU. But it's using the on board video on a Intel D945GCCR motherboard. But Beyond TV plays and records HD super good on this same PC.

Nero LiquidTV records in .mpg not .tivo so it can't fast forword good like a real TiVo. .tivo have like added markers in them every min. or so. There the same as .mpg only with the markers so it can fast forword and rewind good.

But the other Real TiVo's can see Nero LiquidTV and Nero can see them both can get Vidoes from eatch other. Nero LiquidTV can run with TiVo disktop and a Real TiVo will see them as 2 on the same PC.

I order a $50 with shipping 512 MB video card 16X speed that will fit in this motherboard. I should get it next week and I guess Nero LiquidTV HD will work with my system then.

I tested out recording a HD vidoe. Nero plays it back just how it plays it live. Stuttering. But I can play the same video in Windows media player and it don't stutter! But the sound is like your in a cave.

I know they have a update link on there webpage so I guess they will update it. But they must of programed it in some slow code! It takes a fast PC to use this LiquidTV!

My video card says it decords the video on the card too. All I know is Beyond TV works super with my setup and HD but LiquidTV don't.

-Raymond Day


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## martink0646 (Feb 8, 2005)

Downloaded & installed it. Used the only US zip code I could think of - 90210 (!) to install and the program hung downloading the program info. Oh well, I tried. I was trying it to see how it works as a front end to play stored media as it changes all the file associations.

The interface is just like TiVo even down to the sound effects.

Maybe someone else wants to give it a try?

Martin


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## sfalvey (Feb 26, 2004)

martink0646 said:


> Used the only US zip code I could think of - 90210 (!) to install


lol, same one I used.

When you install it asks you for your country currently listing USA, Canada and Mexico. Each country it listed with a small round country flag.

I found these located in C:\Program Files\Nero\Nero LiquidTV\Xml\graphics\4x3\Icons and also found icon_flag_BRITAIN.png

I have also found a number of references in the xml and js files to the presence of UK as a possible country choice. eg in common.js



> var US = "US";
> var CA = "CA";
> var MX = "MX";
> var UK = "UK";


A positive sign perhaps.......


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## son_t (Feb 5, 2009)

Any more news of this for the UK?


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## steveroe (Oct 29, 2002)

Not at present - if there is then it'll be on here pretty quick!


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## ptruman (Jan 8, 2003)

Well they want to hurry up! Look at this from Maplin :

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=228173&C=Newsletter&U=09P03-2&T=12129949

£150, all you need is a hard drive (I have several spare), a DVD+RW (not essential) and an O/S licence and off you go. Twin scart, optical out, composite out, DVI & D-SUB out - only thing missing is HDMI - Liquid TV would run nicely on there I'd suspect....


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ptruman said:


> Well they want to hurry up! Look at this from Maplin :
> 
> http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=228173&C=Newsletter&U=09P03-2&T=12129949
> 
> £150, all you need is a hard drive (I have several spare), a DVD+RW (not essential) and an O/S licence and off you go. Twin scart, optical out, composite out, DVI & D-SUB out - only thing missing is HDMI - Liquid TV would run nicely on there I'd suspect....


Just another dumb PVR box though without the right software.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Pete77 said:


> I assume that Liquid Tv isn't a patch on Tivo or we would all be using it by now.


It's a free trial download, try it for yourself !


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## ptruman (Jan 8, 2003)

Pete77 said:


> Just another dumb PVR box though without the right software.


Erm, isn't that the point of this thread? 



Pete77 said:


> I assume that Liquid Tv isn't a patch on Tivo or we would all be using it by now.


Go look at the Nero website - it's TiVo interface, TiVo guide data, with a supplied peanut and IR controller....It's just "bring your own hardware" - and the Maplin box was an example of how cheap it's getting to do it (barring the O/S licence) - there is even a video of LiquidTV @ CES/CeBIT on YouTube somewhere I believe.


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## DX30 (May 22, 2005)

ptruman said:


> Look at this from Maplin :
> 
> http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=228173&C=Newsletter&U=09P03-2&T=12129949


I bought one of these at the weekend - they look to be an unbranded version of the Scaleo E.

http://www.pcw.co.uk/personal-computer-world/hardware/2149021/fujitsu-siemens-scaleo

I'm intending to try Windows 7 MCE with it, but as you say Liquid TV would be nice.


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## Paul_J (Jan 9, 2001)

With the VM move to the UK what is the chance that this may get packaged for those of us who live in non VM areas?


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

Don't Virgin Media now have exclusivity on Tivo stuff in the UK? If so I suspect the likelihood is close to zero, particularly as it appears to require a subscription.

If it was just DVB EPG fed PVR software with no sub then it would be possible to import from France, Germany, Sweden etc...


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## tenwiseman (Dec 3, 2006)

Sneals2000 said:


> Don't Virgin Media now have exclusivity on Tivo stuff in the UK? If so I suspect the likelihood is close to zero, particularly as it appears to require a subscription.


I suspect that as well. Just how do we find out?


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Depends in Virgin want to move beyond those who can access their equipment, like Sky are doing with SkyPlayer


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

http://tivo.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=419


tivo said:


> Virgin Media will become the exclusive distributor of TiVo services and technology in the United Kingdom.


reads to me like that locks out Nero releasing "TiVo technology" in the UK


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

mikerr said:


> http://tivo.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=419
> reads to me like that locks out Nero releasing "TiVo technology" in the UK


Unless they license it to virgin?


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

Why would Virgin want to dilute their Tivo exclusivity by also allowing non-VM customers to run it on their PCs for Freeview etc.?


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## mrtickle (Aug 26, 2001)

Perhaps because it would allow Virgin to make some rather than zero money from people that their cable doesn't currently (and may never) run past?


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

But they wouldn't be able to stop people using the FreeView version within a cabled area, and that could lose them income from the cable service. There is no way that they could prevent that happening if they produced a FreeView version.


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## cyril (Sep 5, 2001)

iankb said:


> But they wouldn't be able to stop people using the FreeView version within a cabled area, and that could lose them income from the cable service. There is no way that they could prevent that happening if they produced a FreeView version.


I suspect Virgin willl release a cable-only TiVo first.
Once that market has been saturated I would imagine an HD Freeview/Freesat could be made if Virgin's exclusivity license hasn't run out by then.

I'm hoping they make a Freesat version whose sole purpose is to lure customers away from their deadly arch-nemesis Sky


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## mrtickle (Aug 26, 2001)

iankb said:


> But they wouldn't be able to stop people using the FreeView version within a cabled area,


That may be true, but I was just answering Sneals' question about non-cable customers.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Sneals2000 said:


> Why would Virgin want to dilute their Tivo exclusivity by also allowing non-VM customers to run it on their PCs for Freeview etc.?


It would be more of an extra revenue stream than a competing product...


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

iankb said:


> But they wouldn't be able to stop people using the FreeView version within a cabled area, and that could lose them income from the cable service. There is no way that they could prevent that happening if they produced a FreeView version.


Yep - and it would move them into a non-core market, something they are keen to avoid. I don't see Virgin Media marketing a non-cable solution in the UK - it is too far away from their core business, and would make a rival platform more desirable...


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

cyril said:


> I suspect Virgin willl release a cable-only TiVo first.
> Once that market has been saturated I would imagine an HD Freeview/Freesat could be made if Virgin's exclusivity license hasn't run out by then.
> 
> I'm hoping they make a Freesat version whose sole purpose is to lure customers away from their deadly arch-nemesis Sky


Freeview and Freesat are just as big rivals for VM as Sky for multichannel viewing now. Making either Freesat or Freeview more desirable, by enhancing it with Tivo, would create competition for their own offering. Don't see it happening.

BTW - does Tivo operate in any territory where broadcaster triggered recordings and live OTA EPG updates are integrated into the platform? That's always seemed to me Tivo's biggest failing (reliance on clock starts, padding and a downloaded rather than live-updated EPG)

Does Virgin Media support the BBC's live EPG updates for PVR recordings?


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

I'm guessing that a *Virgin TiVo++* will not come out until the second-half of next year. I would expect an exclusivity agreement to run for (say) a couple of years after the launch.

Although that is just guesswork, I don't see the likelyhood of a TiVo solution in a non-Virgin area for several years to come.

Of course, the odd decisions of marketing people never ceases to amaze me but, unfortunately, they tend to err on the side of caution, and the inevitable influence of bean-counters.


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

iankb said:


> Of course, the odd decisions of marketing people never ceases to amaze me but, unfortunately, they tend to err on the side of caution, and the inevitable influence of bean-counters.


Whilst I agree that marketing people have odd ideas about many things - I suspect any decision to diversify into non-Virgin Media markets would be much more a business strategy decision than simply a marketing one.

Many companies are divesting themselves of non-core activities at the moment - and I suspect moving Virgin Media into a PVR business not-allied to their cable operation would be seen as non-core.

AIUI Virgin Media has two distinct arms :

1. Cable operations - the TV, broadband and telephony supply side.

2. Channel operations - the operation of Virgin Media (formerly Flextech) channels like Living TV etc. (They may also have a percentage of the UKTV business that Flextech operated with the BBC - Gold, Watch, Dave etc.)


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

And there is also 3. Virgin Mobile...

But Virgin already supply ADSL broadband outside their cable network (I have it) and offer a Freeview box to those customers - a Freeview Tivo would be a logical extension as a part of a combined TV/Telephone/Broadband offering.
I agree that an independent Freeview Virgin Tivo is improbable, but one bundled in with a 3 way package would increase revenue from those outside the cabled area and keep them away from Sky while staying within their core operations.

The key point would have to be generating enough revenue from VOD etc. to make the investment in manufacturing, marketing and support worth while.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Sneals2000 said:


> (They may also have a percentage of the UKTV business that Flextech operated with the BBC - Gold, Watch, Dave etc.)


Indeed they do. 50%.


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

AMc said:


> And there is also 3. Virgin Mobile...
> 
> But Virgin already supply ADSL broadband outside their cable network (I have it) and offer a Freeview box to those customers - a Freeview Tivo would be a logical extension as a part of a combined TV/Telephone/Broadband offering.
> I agree that an independent Freeview Virgin Tivo is improbable, but one bundled in with a 3 way package would increase revenue from those outside the cabled area and keep them away from Sky while staying within their core operations.
> ...


Are Virgin Mobile and Virgin Broadband (their ADSL, rather than cable, offering) part of Virgin Media - I thought they were separate Virgin operations, though with some joint marketing? That isn't just a semantic difference - they are, I believe, different companies.

I suspect the Tivo deal is with Virgin Media not Virgin?

I might be wrong (not unusual!)

(The various Virgin companies are all quite separate in many ways...)


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## melmatic (Nov 24, 2009)

Sneals2000 said:


> Are Virgin Mobile and Virgin Broadband (their ADSL, rather than cable, offering) part of Virgin Media - I thought they were separate Virgin operations, though with some joint marketing? That isn't just a semantic difference - they are, I believe, different companies.
> 
> I suspect the Tivo deal is with Virgin Media not Virgin?
> 
> ...


Virgin Mobile and ADSL are both part of Virgin Media.

Virgin Media offers phone line rental (using BT's WLR - Wholesale Line Rental), up to 20Mb broadband, mobile and mobile broadband in non-cable areas.

Virgin Media is also working on a trial with Vtesse Networks to deliver Cable TV, VOD and up to 50Mb broadband services to areas currently outside its cable network.

Residents in two Cornish towns will be offered up to 50Mb & TV/VOD via a VDSL2+ line to a roadside cabinet. The cabinets will be linked to Virgin Media backhaul via new fibre laid by Vtesse Networks.


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

I was obviously wrong!


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

melmatic said:


> Virgin Media is also working on a trial with Vtesse Networks to deliver Cable TV, VOD and up to 50Mb broadband services to areas currently outside its cable network.
> 
> Residents in two Cornish towns will be offered up to 50Mb & TV/VOD via a VDSL2+ line to a roadside cabinet. The cabinets will be linked to Virgin Media backhaul via new fibre laid by Vtesse Networks.


Sounds very intersting.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

Sneals2000 said:


> I was obviously wrong!


But that was a pleasant surprise for both of us. Fingers crossed for a truly revolutionary cable/ADSL/Freeview/Freesat compatible uberTivo !


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