# Can I use two Distribution Amplifier



## seadooxp3 (Nov 16, 2017)

i have long cable from antenna in attic going to basement.
I have one amplifier at the antenna , so can I add one close to the receiver to boost the signal even more?


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Are you sure you need it?

Amplifiers also amplify whatever noise is present at the input, so a 2nd amp might not do what you need.

If you plug your TiVo in by itself at the end of the long run, what is your signal level there?

How many devices do you have that _need_ the antenna signal?

-KP


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## longrider (Oct 26, 2017)

If you really do need more amplification you would be better off putting a bigger amplifier at the antenna rather than a second amp.


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## seadooxp3 (Nov 16, 2017)

kpeters59 said:


> Are you sure you need it?
> 
> Amplifiers also amplify whatever noise is present at the input, so a 2nd amp might not do what you need.
> 
> ...


Based on my location from main broadcaster I need to amplify the signal otherwise don't get many channels


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Well, that may be. But what is your current signal level?

And a larger single amp may indeed be the way to go.

-KP


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## seadooxp3 (Nov 16, 2017)

kpeters59 said:


> Well, that may be. But what is your current signal level?
> 
> And a larger single amp may indeed be the way to go.
> 
> -KP


I have following? Do you know any better or larger one?

*Channel Master CM-3410 1-Port Ultra Mini Distribution Amplifier for Cable and Antenna Signals*


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Well, that one's only 15dB gain, so there's lots of other choices.

Channel Master has a 17-30 dB amp on their site.

It would probably be a good idea to know what your current signal level is before you just start throwing hardware at it. RF does unexpected things once it's hooked up.

What is the layout of your system? How many devices NEED an antenna signal?

-KP


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## seadooxp3 (Nov 16, 2017)

kpeters59 said:


> Well, that one's only 15dB gain, so there's lots of other choices.
> 
> Channel Master has a 17-30 dB amp on their site.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tip ..
I ended up ordering Channel Master CM 7777 Titan2 VHF/UHF Pre amplifier with Power Supply CM7777 from amazon to try it out.

I only have one Tivo bolt ant Mini but I am too far (About 80 miles from main tower)


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

You know it's not very hard to pull up signal strength in System Info, right?

-KP


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## seadooxp3 (Nov 16, 2017)

kpeters59 said:


> You know it's not very hard to pull up signal strength in System Info, right?
> 
> -KP


for most channel coming from that tower signal strength is around 35 to 41 ...


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Yikes...

Is the antenna signal passing through any splitters before it gets to the TiVo? Or Antenna straight to Amp straight to TiVo? Or Antenna to Splitter and MoCA to Mini and TiVo?

-KP


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## mblloyd (Feb 11, 2007)

"Yikes" is putting it mildly. At 80 miles that transmitter is way beyond the horizon.You need to concentrate on the best high-gain antenna and a roof mount, if you haven't already.


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## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

mblloyd said:


> "Yikes" is putting it mildly. At 80 miles that transmitter is way beyond the horizon.You need to concentrate on the best high-gain antenna and a roof mount, if you haven't already.


Concur!


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## seadooxp3 (Nov 16, 2017)

kpeters59 said:


> Yikes...
> 
> Is the antenna signal passing through any splitters before it gets to the TiVo? Or Antenna straight to Amp straight to TiVo? Or Antenna to Splitter and MoCA to Mini and TiVo?
> 
> -KP


No splitter but its long run from attic to the basement with one extension. Had to add 15ft to original 50 ft that was inside the wall!!

No MoCa at all. Mini is connected to Ethernet only.


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## seadooxp3 (Nov 16, 2017)

Sparky1234 said:


> Concur!


I know but I am north of Toronto (Canada) so closest US tower is in Buffalo


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## LarryAtHome (Feb 18, 2008)

Your best bet is height on the antenna, and the biggest antenna you can get. Do you have a TV tower? I am east of Toronto, and to get anything other than 2 channels, I have a 40 ft tower with a CM7777 pre-amp, then a distribution amp inside the house splitting off to quite a few tuners. The distribution amp really only overcomes the splitting loss in my case. Even with this, I could use a higher tower, as 40 ft is about the minimum here for reception.


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## seadooxp3 (Nov 16, 2017)

LarryAtHome said:


> Your best bet is height on the antenna, and the biggest antenna you can get. Do you have a TV tower? I am east of Toronto, and to get anything other than 2 channels, I have a 40 ft tower with a CM7777 pre-amp, then a distribution amp inside the house splitting off to quite a few tuners. The distribution amp really only overcomes the splitting loss in my case. Even with this, I could use a higher tower, as 40 ft is about the minimum here for reception.


I already have my antenna in the attic which is about 20 ft high.
Tried CM7777 pre-amp but didn't help. I only have one Tivo Bolt and one line from Antenna so I went back to my CM-3410.

Currently I get all Canadian and all major US stations except NBS and PBS and any affiliate with NBC...


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## seadooxp3 (Nov 16, 2017)

This is the antenna that I'm using in my Attic


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## A J Ricaud (Jun 25, 2002)

There will be some attenuation of the signal when it in the attic as opposed to free air. Any chance you can install it outside, preferably on a mast? Even a chimney mount or maybe even an eaves mount would get you better signal.


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## LarryAtHome (Feb 18, 2008)

A J Ricaud said:


> There will be some attenuation of the signal when it in the attic as opposed to free air.


You can loose a lot of signal in the attic and any trees or other obstructions near to you will also take its toll. Snow buildup also will be a factor. Really need to get well above the roof to eliminate any affects it will have on the signal.
Any amplification will be better closer to the antenna, in amplifying the signal before the losses happen. You can't amplify something that is already lost.
In general, for long range reception you will need a very large antenna (you need the best signal before amplification), height to get over and away from any obstructions and a very low noise pre-amplifier as well as accurately aimed.
That antenna will do great for UHF signals but does not have high gain for VHF. The VHF was really just an addon for strong stations.


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## dirtsy (Oct 29, 2017)

mblloyd said:


> "Yikes" is putting it mildly. At 80 miles that transmitter is way beyond the horizon.You need to concentrate on the best high-gain antenna and a roof mount, if you haven't already.





Sparky1234 said:


> Concur!


Concur also. Approximately 65-miles is the digital cliff, meaning the signal is being lost at that point via the curvature of the earth. Amplifying the signal will do nothing to help the situation as it will amplify the noise that harms the signal also.

My experience in "deep fringe" areas like this (my grandparents lake house is 55mi from towers over rolling, tree filled terrain) is to get a high gain antenna, mount it as high as possible, make the coax run as short as possible to the tuner. Personally, I've had zero luck with pre-amps, they have only made things worse in my practice. Amplifying a signal that doesn't exist, amplifies nothing.


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## mblloyd (Feb 11, 2007)

LarryAtHome said:


> You can loose a lot of signal in the attic and any trees or other obstructions near to you will also take its toll. Snow buildup also will be a factor. Really need to get well above the roof to eliminate any affects it will have on the signal.
> Any amplification will be better closer to the antenna, in amplifying the signal before the losses happen. You can't amplify something that is already lost.
> In general, for long range reception you will need a very large antenna (you need the best signal before amplification), height to get over and away from any obstructions and a very low noise pre-amplifier as well as accurately aimed.
> That antenna will do great for UHF signals but does not have high gain for VHF. The VHF was really just an addon for strong stations.


The antenna you have shown is not very close, at all, to what is called for. And as stated earlier, the attic is convenient but not a good choice for the altitude neede. You might get on one of the Websites that will suggest the antenna requirements for coupling your location to the transmitting tower. Are your stations really broadcasting on the "old VHF" frequencies? You will get answers from such a Website


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

seadooxp3 said:


> i have long cable from antenna in attic going to basement.
> I have one amplifier at the antenna , so can I add one close to the receiver to boost the signal even more?


The amp at the antenna should be a pre-amp. Just get a more powerful one. I use a 30 to 35dB pre-amp at my antenna. It's been working great for fourteen years.


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## seadooxp3 (Nov 16, 2017)

aaronwt said:


> The amp at the antenna should be a pre-amp. Just get a more powerful one. I use a 30 to 35dB pre-amp at my antenna. It's been working great for fourteen years.


What brand and model pre amp?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

seadooxp3 said:


> What brand and model pre amp?


I use a Winegard pre-amp. I have no idea what the model is though. I remember buying two initially. One with something like a 15 to 20dB gain, and one with something like a 30 or 35dB gain. I couldn't get the channels in reliably with the lower gain one. But once I installed the higher gain pre-amp, it made a huge difference.


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## leswar (Apr 14, 2005)

Did you start or visit these sites first?

TV Fool

The gold standard for folks wanting to do long distance ota:
Over-The-Air (OTA) Digital Television - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums 
and specifically: 
Rooftop antenna selection in Montreal NDG - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
for Montrealers. YMMV...

Maybe here to see what your neighbors can do:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-local-hdtv-info-reception/465187-canada-toronto-hdtv.html

AFAIK you can't combine amps to get "stronger" signals. Start with the best ant for your situation and install a quality pre-amp at the mast. You didn't indicate if you are splitting the signal for additional televisions. If so then a distribution amp inside at the splitter location to overcome signal loss from the splitting.

Some types of pre-amps to read about:
Pre-Amplifiers - Solid Signal
Not recommending site - just FYI only.

Additional ota educational information for consideration:

HDTV Antenna Selection Guide, Reviews and Information
Dual Antenna Boom
The Antenna Forum [Archive] - WTFDA Forums
Local HDTV Info and Reception - High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource

Good luck and Godspeed


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## terek (Feb 9, 2019)

That ClearStream 4 is a strong outdoor receiver that's actually multidirectional - I guess it's out of the question to increase elevation and put it on the roof?

Attic installations can be tricky - you can lose up to 40-50% of your signal there. I don't know if your amp experiment worked, but as others have suggested you can easily get garbage in/garbage out.

On the other hand, preamps are known to slightly improve TV reception from the attic, in which case you should keep them as close to the antenna as possible.


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## ke3ju (Jan 5, 2004)

This on the roof possibly with a preamp.

https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-HD8200U-Platinum-Ultra-HD-High-VHF/dp/B001DFS4BI


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

_(FYI... This thread is from January 2018.)_


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## ke3ju (Jan 5, 2004)

krkaufman said:


> _(FYI... This thread is from January 2018.)_


LOL, I'm a year late and a dollar short.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

ke3ju said:


> LOL, I'm a year late and a dollar short.


Eh, maybe; @seadooxp3 never replied with any feedback on a solution, so it's not certain they're set. Just didn't want you or anyone else adding feedback expecting the OP.


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