# So...What is a 10-250 DTV/Tivo customer to do?



## Cutty (Sep 8, 2007)

With the latest announcement, what should I do? DTV has been pestering the heck out of me the last couple of weeks to switch to their unit...I suspect they were trying to convert people as much as possible. 

Should I switch now to the DTV unit and then again in late 2009 or just wait?

Any assistance will be appreciated.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

Cutty said:


> With the latest announcement, what should I do? DTV has been pestering the heck out of me the last couple of weeks to switch to their unit...I suspect they were trying to convert people as much as possible.
> 
> Should I switch now to the DTV unit and then again in late 2009 or just wait?
> 
> Any assistance will be appreciated.


Depends - ask yourself how important is it to watch HD TV besides OTA between the posted MPEG2 cutoff date and when the new unit is supposed to hit the streets sometime in the second half of 2009 - if the answer is yes, then switch, if no, then continue on with what you have.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Besides, you don't know whether you'll be happy with what comes out in a years time. It could be like the "Comcast TiVo".


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

From other forum!


stevel said:


> Ok, I reread the press release and I had been focusing on these words:
> 
> "Under the terms of the non--exclusive arrangement, DIRECTV and TiVo will work together to develop *a version of the TiVo® service for DIRECTV's broadband-enabled HD DVR platform*.
> 
> I wonder which it will be...


And my reply there.


JimSpence said:


> Hmmmm, you could interpret that statement to mean that TiVo is developing software for the current HR20 and HR21 platforms. Or maybe for the upcoming HR22 (HR23?). Then people with HR20s, like me, could go back to TiVo without having additional hardware cost. Only the added TiVo cost.


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## cowboys2002 (Jun 15, 2001)

Keep what you have until it is non-repairable or no longer fits your needs.

I never purchased the unit, so when I bought a HDTV last december and stayed with DTV, my choice was clear the HR21 DVR. I moved the tivo to another tv and so we still have 2 units in service.

We may be buying a another TV son fro he living room or gameroom, so I may just get a HDTIVO to try for 30 days with a cable card (house is wired for both).


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## rick peterson (Jun 16, 2001)

What is an HR 10-250 worth these days?


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

For me it's worth its weight in gold as two more tuners for recording. On the open market, not so much.


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## the_scotsman (Jul 28, 2005)

I had the same problem/question. 

I ended up taking the deal and just had a new HR22 installed. So far so good (except I have a LNB issue which needs to be fixed). 

The HR22 is commitment free, I own it, install was free, HD access free for a year, and my HR10-250 was relocated! 

Seemed like a no brainer to me - how could I refuse!

I did end up deactivating one of my SD-Tivos but only because BOTH tuners died - oh well, at least my monthly charge will be the same for the next 12 months. 

Paul


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Cutty said:


> With the latest announcement, what should I do? DTV has been pestering the heck out of me the last couple of weeks to switch to their unit...I suspect they were trying to convert people as much as possible.
> 
> Should I switch now to the DTV unit and then again in late 2009 or just wait?
> 
> Any assistance will be appreciated.


do you need 2 extra tuners for 5 bucks a month and have the space for them? if so, get the free upgrade plus 2 yr commit and just enjoy the SD and OTA on the hdtivo!


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

Cutty said:


> With the latest announcement, what should I do? DTV has been pestering the heck out of me the last couple of weeks to switch to their unit...I suspect they were trying to convert people as much as possible.
> 
> Should I switch now to the DTV unit and then again in late 2009 or just wait?
> 
> Any assistance will be appreciated.


If you do switch, make absolutely sure you don't get stuck with the commitment. That way you can go back to the good stuff as soon as it's available.

It would be awful being stuck with something when you knew there was a better box already out there waiting.


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## katie-dvr (Sep 8, 2008)

I just heard the news about the HR22 from one of the tech rep's at directv. They will generously "give" me a free upgrade from my HR10-250, but I get what comes off the truck... whether it is a dusty HR20 from the back shelf or 21 or 22. One tech told me I could request what I wanted, but when scheduling the upgrade, turns out there is no such option. I was told by a directv supervisor, "It's free, you get whatever we give you.. no other company upgrades their hardware for free..." and basically called me unreasonable for wanting specify my free delivery. IMO> They won't be ranked number one in customer service much longer with that type of management phone response.

I was told to feel free to purchase it from BestBuy, the only store I've found so far carrying the HR22, but there is no free upgrade. BestBuy is backordered 1-2 weeks as of this moment per their website.

I also read about the new Tivo/directv deal for next summer/fall. The box will be cost maybe $600 and directv plans to charge an EXTRA monthly fee if you use the tivo box over whatever they currently will sell at that time. I'm hoping the price of a TenBox comes quickly. 

kt


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Any speculation on box cost for the new DTiVo is just that. However, an added fee for TiVo capability is almost certain.

I don't get the connection with TenBox.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

stevel said:


> Any speculation on box cost for the new DTiVo is just that. However, an added fee for TiVo capability is almost certain.
> 
> I don't get the connection with TenBox.


Glad I was not the only one to not understand it, the Tenbox is that waaayy overpiced Esata expansion device for HR2X series DVRS, 999.00 for 1TB, 1199.00 for 1.5 and 1,649 for 2TB - they have to be smoking something for trying to charge those costs when you can get a 1TB drive for close to 100.00 on sale if you shop around


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## mp11 (Jan 29, 2008)

stevel said:


> Besides, you don't know whether you'll be happy with what comes out in a years time. It could be like the "Comcast TiVo".


Do you honestly believe the same mistakes would be made? That they would step into the same problems that the Comcast Tivo had? I think both Directv *and* Tivo are smarter than that.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

mp11 said:


> Do you honestly believe the same mistakes would be made? That they would step into the same problems that the Comcast Tivo had? I think both Directv *and* Tivo are smarter than that.


I would not have believed that the Comcast TiVo would be received as poorly as it was. Yes, I believe the same mistakes could be made. I hope they won't, and hope that DirecTV properly beta tests this product and does not release it if there are serious issues.


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## katie-dvr (Sep 8, 2008)

Sorry in my orignal post... i left out a word...
hope the price comes <DOWN> on the Tenbox quickly.
(I'm not comfortable installing a larger hard drive in the DTV box myself).

and the price guestimate came from a discussion with a tech-head that attended CEDIA and conversations by others there. Of course no one knows what directv and tivo will decide come next fall, and what functionality will be provided... 
>>>
The TiVo HD XL [terabyte storage], which is presently being exhibited by TiVo at CEDIA 2008 in Denver, Colorado, is available now through the official TiVo Web site for $599.99 USD. 
>>>

the price per month guestimate was from a news posting on CNNMoney:
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/apwire/955f0d8acdd9d989b35a997d3af28bc1.htm

>>>
However, DirecTV will pay a "substantially higher" monthly fee for homes that use the new TiVo-DirecTV HD DVR than it pays for older TiVo-DirecTV DVRs, according to a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission. 
>>>>

kt


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

sjberra said:


> Glad I was not the only one to not understand it, the Tenbox is that waaayy overpiced Esata expansion device for HR2X series DVRS, 999.00 for 1TB, 1199.00 for 1.5 and 1,649 for 2TB - they have to be smoking something for trying to charge those costs when you can get a 1TB drive for close to 100.00 on sale if you shop around


but does it have a fancy enclosure, great cooling and a whisper quiet ...oh forget it


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

You certainly don't need the TenBox for an external disk. There are many inexpensive solutions for eSATA disks that work, such as the WD MyBook, the Seagate FreeAgentPro (sometimes), and separate enclosures where you mount your own disk.

The "TiVoHD XL" you see mentioned is not the DirecTV box. It's the latest in the cable-only Series 3 line.


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## katie-dvr (Sep 8, 2008)

stevel said:


> The "TiVoHD XL" you see mentioned is not the DirecTV box. It's the latest in the cable-only Series 3 line.


ya. the general discussion was around that it could be ballpark area on future price of the directv offering. hence, the guestimate being one thing in helping me to decide "to upgrade now, or not to upgrade now".

then again, it would be a nice surprise to get a sweet, lower priced box from directv/tivo next fall. (not holding my breath)

kt


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## mp11 (Jan 29, 2008)

stevel said:


> Yes, I believe the same mistakes could be made. I hope they won't, and hope that DirecTV properly beta tests this product and does not release it if there are serious issues.


New mistakes maybe...past mistakes would be inexcusable, which is why I dont see it going that way. Just wish I knew which percentage is higher of disappointed customers. Comcast Tivo or D* HR2* series.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

katie-dvr said:


> Sorry in my orignal post... i left out a word...
> hope the price comes <DOWN> on the Tenbox quickly.
> (I'm not comfortable installing a larger hard drive in the DTV box myself).
> 
> ...


Sorry, all it is a overpriced Esata enclosure. Go over to teh dbstalk forums and get what they suggest for the unit. Works the same way and costs a lot less then the TenBox


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

newsposter said:


> but does it have a fancy enclosure, great cooling and a whisper quiet ...oh forget it


For the 999 price I can build a 2TB water cooled or heat transfer based unit in a HTPC enclosure and still have enough money left over to take my wife out to a Emeril Lagasse's place for dinner


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

sjberra said:


> For the 999 price I can build a 2TB water cooled or heat transfer based unit in a HTPC enclosure and still have enough money left over to take my wife out to a Emeril Lagasse's place for dinner


he doesnt have a place around me..i guess i'm buying the box


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

newsposter said:


> he doesnt have a place around me..i guess i'm buying the box


Go for it then, if you have money to throw away like that then more power to you. At the end of the day you could purchase a box for a lot less that does the exact same thing.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

yup i have so much money i didnt even join the tcf club


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## katie-dvr (Sep 8, 2008)

sjberra said:


> Go for it then, if you have money to throw away like that then more power to you. At the end of the day you could purchase a box for a lot less that does the exact same thing.


I did check out a couple sites the day i posted... 
my issues with them were... no one could decide on the best hard drive, and if some were preferred, others disputed whether they worked on only the hr20 and not 21 (let alone a 22). (Mybook, one suggested here, is said to not support dvr at all.) The enclosure boxes, noisy or not, no fan - too hot for 24/7 needs, make sure u buy high quality eSata cable and not poor quality eSata.... who knows if it's a good price or a poor quality cable...... external boxes only fit 1T? max and what about 2T?

once i'd make my best combo selections, prices, shipping.. then as I said, i'm not tech confident enough to change the hard drive in the directv box, so now it comes down to "building" an external box... the discussions I saw talked about formatting for the pc/mac and not for the directv box... oh yes some of the boxes only supported esata on mac, but does that matter to directv box... etc etc etc...

as you can see...... i'm a "high maintenance" kinda gal..... ....... 
(all above questions are rhetorical) 
please Tenbox, with that "whisper quiet" fan, plug and play to directv .............. drop your price some more.......
kt (i can live without emeril)


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## bldxyz (Feb 8, 2002)

I'm really trying to decide, and this thread, unfortunately, isn't helping me much. Not that anyone here can be blamed for that -- this is all on DirecTV.

I'm very disappointed in this situation. I have been conservative about what I buy and how often I change, and if after six or more years (who can recall?), I'd be surprised if my wife would welcome a change, particularly if we had a solid chance of changing back.

I'll say this much: I was pretty late to getting an HR10-250. So late, that it has been less than 2.5 years between when I put up $650 to get a "leased" receiver that they now want me to cough up. Yep, they had *better* be replacing it free.

Now comes the tricky part: no matter how they price the new TiVo receiver next Fall/Winter, I won't be satisfied to pay anything that isn't nominal to essentially get back to what I had before. I mean, what I have now is an HD DVR with TiVo as the software, and I can watch a whole mess of programming that I like to watch in HD (partially OTA, partially on the normal channels I get). So if they essentially take that away from me and make me pay money *again* to get back to where I started, or even considering increasing my monthly charge for it, I'd be so quick to take my business elsewhere if Comcast weren't so overpriced.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

If you have a leased receiver, you did not pay $650 (at least not if you bought it from DirecTV.) If you paid $650 to DirecTV you don't have a leased receiver - especially if you got it 2.5 years ago.

From what has been described, the future DirecTV TiVo will be much more than what you had before. Only you can decide if it's worth it.


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## bldxyz (Feb 8, 2002)

stevel said:


> If you have a leased receiver, you did not pay $650 (at least not if you bought it from DirecTV.) If you paid $650 to DirecTV you don't have a leased receiver - especially if you got it 2.5 years ago.


I don't have exact records, but my Quicken breakdown of how they billed me for that receiver showed $650 in June of 2006. I was only told by the installation guy (after he installed it, mind you) that I had to sign a form that acknowledged that the receiver was leased. I was pissed by this first notice of it, but felt I was out of leverage (probably why they didn't say anything until that point). It is possible that the $650 includes the receiver and installation fees, new dish and all. But still, they charged that much, and they call it a lease.

Can you explain to me how come they made me sign this form and have a "primary leased receiver" line on my bill if it is not leased?



stevel said:


> From what has been described, the future DirecTV TiVo will be much more than what you had before. Only you can decide if it's worth it.


At a high level, what will make the new DirecTV TiVo "much more"?

My view is that no matter what the technical advantages are, it is fundamentally the same:

HD DVR
TiVo software (pause, smart programming, wish lists, etc.)
High quality sound (digital)

Perhaps it will be faster or have some additional features that the HR10-250 does not have, or perhaps more capacity, but again, at a high level, it will be the same, and DirecTV will have forced me into "upgrading" to it by taking away the MPEG-2 channels that made the investment in the HR10-250 non-sensiscal.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

katie-dvr said:


> http://www.weaknees.com/hr20-700-directv-hd-dvr.phpas you can see...... i'm a "high maintenance" kinda gal..... .......
> (all above questions are rhetorical)
> please Tenbox, with that "whisper quiet" fan, plug and play to directv .............. drop your price some more.......
> kt (i can live without emeril)


No, you are foolish girl who can easily be parted from her money.

Try this (as an example):

http://www.weaknees.com/hr20-700-directv-hd-dvr.php

And this stuff is still overpriced, too.


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## katie-dvr (Sep 8, 2008)

hey, cool.
i'll keep it in mind after my "free" upgrade next week.

so i received a letter from directv saturday, saying the hr10-250 will not work much longer. does this mean that i can't switch the hr10 to my non-hd tv in the spare room, replacing the ancient non-recording box i have had from them for like 10 years?

emeril is overpriced too.... lol
told u i'm high maintenance!
kt


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Cutty said:


> With the latest announcement, what should I do? DTV has been pestering the heck out of me the last couple of weeks to switch to their unit...I suspect they were trying to convert people as much as possible.
> 
> Should I switch now to the DTV unit and then again in late 2009 or just wait?
> 
> Any assistance will be appreciated.


Dump the eevil that is DirecTV. Get an HD Tivo with CableCARD and enjoy all of the functionality that a TiVo has, which you never got from DevilTV, and the new D* TiVo won't have.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

RS4 said:


> If you do switch, make absolutely sure you don't get stuck with the commitment. That way you can go back to the good stuff as soon as it's available.
> 
> It would be awful being stuck with something when you knew there was a better box already out there waiting.


Even if DirecTV tells you or doesn't tell you you have no commitment they'll tell you you agreed to the commitment when you signed the little "Work is satisfactory" paper the tech gave you.

DUMP DIRECTV and get a quality TiVo.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

katie-dvr said:


> so i received a letter from directv saturday, saying the hr10-250 will not work much longer. does this mean that i can't switch the hr10 to my non-hd tv in the spare room, replacing the ancient non-recording box i have had from them for like 10 years?


You certainly can switch the HR10 to your non-HD TV and it will continue to function fine as a standard-def DVR.

FYI - I still have an HR10 and plan on keeping it (it's mine anyway, not leased.) I also have an HR20 and HR21.


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## katie-dvr (Sep 8, 2008)

stevel said:


> You certainly can switch the HR10 to your non-HD TV and it will continue to function fine as a standard-def DVR.
> 
> FYI - I still have an HR10 and plan on keeping it (it's mine anyway, not leased.) I also have an HR20 and HR21.


thanks!
seriously... i'm not used to sounding like such a ditz but...
i've never been quite clear on all the contract/lease stuff. I've always gotten my service and hardware directly from directv and haven't paid more than like $100-200 for an upgrade since my initial install in the early 90s. It's been a long time since I signed a commitment contract. They have never taken a receiver away when upgrades happened. I had to request the tech take the original dish away 3 years ago at my last upgrade... he wanted to mount the new next to the old. RME. The letter I mentioned earlier today has fine print saying that they may upgrade me using a refurbished box. As I said several days ago, the customer service manager felt that because they are upgrading me for free, I have no say in what I get. So if i own the hardware, why do I have to accept a refurbished box? or old stock from their warehouse?

Another week and a half to wait for the upgrade... at least with this long lead in time, maybe all the old stuff will go out before me. lol.

one "hateful" & high maintenance girl...
kt
stevel, i live about 45 min away from you... watch out on the roads!


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I've had refurbished boxes - they worked fine. I wouldn't worry about that. Chances are you'll get a new box anyway.

So, Katie, what do you drive so I can watch out for you?


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

I'll sell you my 2 for 1/4 of what they are worth of their weights in gold (~$885/ounce). Deal? 


JimSpence said:


> For me it's worth its weight in gold as two more tuners for recording. On the open market, not so much.


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## Citivas (Oct 12, 2000)

netringer said:


> Even if DirecTV tells you or doesn't tell you you have no commitment they'll tell you you agreed to the commitment when you signed the little "Work is satisfactory" paper the tech gave you.
> 
> DUMP DIRECTV and get a quality TiVo.


I get that you may have been screwed. DirecTV is not a company with a recent history of integrity. I am no fan. But you are making a sweeping assumption that has not been borne out by other people's experience. Not everyone is being tricked into false commitments. In fact, I've only read about one or two cases with this claim, repeated over and over as examples. I can tell you I definitely have no commitment. In fact, they let me go out and buy a new box and gave me in the end a full credit for the cost -- initially in programming discounts but later I got a full cash credit for the balance. I signed no paperwork and when I called the second time to get the remaining credit I said I was thinking of leaving since I had no commitment and they offered the remaining credit -- they took my claim seriously and made no effort to claim I was under commitment.


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

When I got my free upgrade in January I kept my 10-250 connected to our HDtv. We still mostly use it unless there's an HD program that's only on the Directv box. You don't have to choose, keep them both. You'll be reminded daily of how the Tivo is more intuitive and consumer friendly.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

Cudahy said:


> When I got my free upgrade in January I kept my 10-250 connected to our HDtv. We still mostly use it unless there's an HD program that's only on the Directv box. You don't have to choose, keep them both. You'll be reminded daily of how the Tivo is more intuitive and consumer friendly.


What if you don't have enough cables to go around (and can't do any more wall drops)?

I currently have 3 cables coming out from behind my HDTV's.....1 is for OTA, and the other 2 are for the HR10.


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## BGLeduc (Aug 26, 2003)

Sir_winealot said:


> What if you don't have enough cables to go around (and can't do any more wall drops)?
> 
> I currently have 3 cables coming out from behind my HDTV's.....1 is for OTA, and the other 2 are for the HR10.


My exact situation.

Well, wait, not exactly....I am using a diplexor to get the OTA line in, so I really only have two hard lines coming in, and it would be even more difficult were I to want to have m HR10 ride shotgun with a D* box.

Brian


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Sir_winealot said:


> What if you don't have enough cables to go around (and can't do any more wall drops)?
> 
> I currently have 3 cables coming out from behind my HDTV's.....1 is for OTA, and the other 2 are for the HR10.


Let me think here, some ideas.

If you get an SWM then you can run both tuners of an HR2x with just one line. Then run the other two dedicated for the HR10 with OTA diplexed in (after the SWM, use the legacy ports on the SWM for these 2 lines). So long as the OTA isn't diplexed in before the SWM you're ok. But now that I think about it the SWM does have an OTA port on it so it's diplexed in automatically (but not sure on the legacy ports to the HR10) so you could probably then have your diplexor to split OTA out on the HR2x line and then you can split it to the HR10 (as well as the HR20 or AM21 OTA module if you wish).

Thus I think you could run both HR2x and an HR10 along with OTA with just 3 lines.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Diplex the HR10 line - diplexing doesn't work well with SWM.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

shibby191 said:


> Let me think here, some ideas.
> 
> If you get an SWM then you can run both tuners of an HR2x with just one line. Then run the other two dedicated for the HR10 with OTA diplexed in (after the SWM, use the legacy ports on the SWM for these 2 lines). So long as the OTA isn't diplexed in before the SWM you're ok. But now that I think about it the SWM does have an OTA port on it so it's diplexed in automatically (but not sure on the legacy ports to the HR10) so you could probably then have your diplexor to split OTA out on the HR2x line and then you can split it to the HR10 (as well as the HR20 or AM21 OTA module if you wish).
> 
> Thus I think you could run both HR2x and an HR10 along with OTA with just 3 lines.


Hold on a sec ...you might've lost me here.

If I use SWM for HR2x, and use a 2nd diplexed with OTA for the HR10, wouldn't I just end up with the HR10 having a single tuner plus OTA?


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Sir_winealot said:


> Hold on a sec ...you might've lost me here.
> 
> If I use SWM for HR2x, and use a 2nd diplexed with OTA for the HR10, wouldn't I just end up with the HR10 having a single tuner plus OTA?


Nope.

Let's diagram it and we'll use Steve's advice.

Your 4 lines from the Dish go to the SWM8 which can replace your multiswitch or you can cascade it off the WB68 multiswitch if needed.

On the SWM8 you'll run 1 line from the SWM output to the SWM input on the HR2x. This will run both tuners in the HR2x. This also takes 2 of the 8 SWM tuners available to you. Also since it's from an SWM you don't need BBC connectors on the HR2x, the BBC function is built into the SWM. You can use standard cable type splitters on that SWM line as well to run to other HR2x units in the house, even using your standard cable lines in house wiring. Anyway...

On the SWM8 will be a couple (3 I think) ports labeled "Legacy". These can be used for older non SWM capable receivers like the HR10. So run 2 lines off the legacy ports to the HR10, diplexing in your OTA to one of those lines. Key is to diplex *after* the SWM.

Thus this gives you both tuners and OTA for your HR10 and both tuners for your HR2x (and OTA) all on 3 cables. Easy as punch. 

--------------------------------

If you have a lot of legacy receivers then I'd suggest a cascade.
4 lines from dish to WB68 (or the 16 port version). 4 lines from there to the SWM, the other 4 lines open and available for tuners of legacy recievers (and OTA can be diplexed in).
Then from the SWM you'll have the legacy ports for more legacy receivers (and diplex in OTA, again after the SWM) and 8 SWM tuners available (which again can run off just one wire with standard splitters if you want).


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

2 legacy ports on the SWM8.

I run four lines from the dish. One SWM, two legacy for the HR10 and one OTA (can't diplex because it's a powered antenna.)


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## katie-dvr (Sep 8, 2008)

after 3 week wait...... upgrade done at last!

HR22 in southern NH

i demurely asked the tech if he had a 22 for me, so he checked and had a mix of 21s and 22s on his truck... blink blink 

found out AFTER the tech left that some how when he registered the new box and deactivated an old old one, none of the 3 boxes would record. took another 20 mins on the phone with support to get the boxes cleared and re-reactivated.

lost my HD antenna for local channels with the HR22. The tech said I'd have to run a separate cable, punch down thru attic and hook it direct to the tv and use the tv-input modes to access it. he did try to split a line direct to the tv but the splitter screwed up the reception. (prior installer had combined the wire from the HD antenna into the wires from the satellite in the attic, so only two wires came down from the attic, and a splitter on the back of the hr10 to the off air antenna on the box.) oh well. 

i swapped out an archiac non dvr box with the hr10 on an old portable tv just for the dvr ability. this requires an "rca to coax converter" since there isn't a cable plug on the back of the hr10. 

i'm off to start stuffing my HR22 drive and figure out the net connection. what a joy to have caller-id back after i lost it when went to the hr10.

AND... getting the hr22 buys me more time for that tenbox price to drop!!!
lol

kt 
ps to stevel... a jeep lol.


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## rv65 (Aug 30, 2008)

katie-dvr said:


> after 3 week wait...... upgrade done at last!
> 
> HR22 in southern NH
> 
> ...


They have the AM-22 which you can use in addition to the HR-22. The AM-22 is about 50 USD and it comes with 2 ATSC tuners. Plugs in via the antenna and USB to the HR-21/22.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

That's AM21.

If you had a SWM module you could use just one line for the HR22 and another one for the antenna. You can buy a SWM-8 separately.

A Jeep, eh? I'll watch for that...


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## madbeachcat (Jan 31, 2002)

mp11 said:


> New mistakes maybe...past mistakes would be inexcusable, which is why I dont see it going that way. Just wish I knew which percentage is higher of disappointed customers. Comcast Tivo or D* HR2* series.


Put me down as not disappointed in the HR21.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I'm pretty sure that the percentage of disappointed Comcast TiVo customers is much higher, from all that I have read.


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## katie-dvr (Sep 8, 2008)

are you sure about that stevel? disappointed comcast tivo people?

i'm not sure i can get much more disappointed with directv at this point (after 13 years). first problem after the tech did the upgrade, no boxes in my house would record. ok, called and they resolved it.

Except now the brand new hr22 "forgets" local HD channels and some of the premium HD channels when it tries to time record them. sometimes they come back on their own, sometimes after resetting the box. after a couple calls to support (and time on their tech forum), the guy is sending me a replacement box within the next 5 days that i will have to install myself. this concerns me because the tech-spert on the forum said that two of the satellites are reading too low for proper alignment and it needs to be repositioned. 

and of course just because i have a (broken) hr22 doesn't mean it will be replaced by an hr22. he didn't see what the difference was so i enlightened him regarding twice the memory.

all i can say is that i hope the tivo deal next year isn't too late to save their reputation. 

kt, missing tivo big time!


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## katie-dvr (Sep 8, 2008)

katie-dvr said:


> i'm not sure i can get much more disappointed with directv at this point (after 13 years). ...all i can say is that i hope the tivo deal next year isn't too late to save their reputation.


oh and i forgot to mention the system-wide current problem:
remote and front of box fails to respond
i learned about during the 'on hold' announcements waiting for the tech this morning... which i didn't have at the time but i now do! 
(please do not report this issue, we are aware of it and it will be resolved shortly.... per their message...)

kt, missing tivo big time!


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

katie-dvr said:


> oh and i forgot to mention the system-wide current problem:
> remote and front of box fails to respond
> i learned about during the 'on hold' announcements waiting for the tech this morning... which i didn't have at the time but i now do!
> (please do not report this issue, we are aware of it and it will be resolved shortly.... per their message...)
> ...


Have you rebooted your system? Open the panel on the front of the DVR and press the small red button. He sytem will reboot and you should be good to go. It appears that soemthing occurred last night between 1:30 and 6:00 am and cuase the boxes to no respond to the remotes.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

jimb726 said:


> Have you rebooted your system? Open the panel on the front of the DVR and press the small red button. He sytem will reboot and you should be good to go. It appears that soemthing occurred last night between 1:30 and 6:00 am and cuase the boxes to no respond to the remotes.


You might need to pull the plug as well. Neither of my HR21s responded to the red button reboot.

(Still don't know if they came back up, I had to leave for work with mine stuck on 97%)


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

hmm interesting...this morning i had no response either..just pulled the plug.it's about every week or 2 that i have this issue


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

newsposter said:


> hmm interesting...this morning i had no response either..just pulled the plug.it's about every week or 2 that i have this issue


There is a couple f threads over on dbstalk, seems bad guide data


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## katie-dvr (Sep 8, 2008)

i'm sick of rebooting the system from the bad hr22 forgetting some HDs... yes, it also resolved the frozen remote issue... and it (reboot) also resolved the frozen screen issue...

directv did send out an email about the remote issue. As far as i'm concerned --about the only proactive thing they've done in a _*long*_ while...

and fed ex just came with the replacement box and of course it is only an hr21 so i'm just about beyond myself being fed up with directv.

now i'm off to plug in and configure the blasted replacement... keeping my fingers crossed because i'm also sick of their phone support... long gone are the days when someone without a scripted response, let alone pleasant, used to take the calls..........


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## eboydog (Mar 24, 2006)

I had my fill of Directv too and just dropped them after getting a real Tivo (Tivo HD).

The only hassle I have had which was nothing compared to others was getting the cable cards set and activated. Did have an amusing call today as I wasn't getting audio on two HD channels after one cable "tech" told me they didn't support Tivo's and I would have to fix it myself, a second call confirmed that I wasn't even suppose to be able see the two channels much less not have audio as I hadn't paid the extra $6.95 for the "HD" package. Which then I understood that my cable companies "HD" package was two HD channels !?!?! for which Directv does get credit for their HD lineup.

Katie-dvr, if you aren't happy with the Directv and what they have "upgraded" you to, I'm rather sure (and stand to be corrected) you have the option to backout if 30 days have not lapsed otherwise you are going to be stuck with 2 year commitment.

I can't live without my Tivo and Directv's offering of their DVR's were not an option for me and as cable was available, my choice was easy.


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## katie-dvr (Sep 8, 2008)

the replacement box i received is an hr21 pro... 
i wasn't aware that the "pro" has the larger hard drive like the hr22.

i guess i didn't "post" my last entry... but the replacement box fails in the same way as the HR22 and tomorrow directv will provide concierge service manage the problem(s) to resolution.

kt, still pouting over losing tivo


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## katie-dvr (Sep 8, 2008)

guess i should conclude the "story" for web historical purposes 
the tech came and replaced a bad coupler in the attic and he also removed another multiplexer/splitter up there that was bringing in the off air antennas. no dish realignment necessary at this time.
the original upgrade installer had not gone into the attic.
the new box hr21-pro is working fine... except it is not tivo and now i truly appreciate why there is such a fervor about how great tivo is............. 

looking forward to next year when tivo returns quality firmware to directv.
kt


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## DonDon (Jan 14, 2007)

Hey Katie, I feel for you.

After getting an H20?? (with OTA) a year ago and using it side by side with a SD TIVO, we still watch most of our stuff on the SD Tivo. The only problem we had with that unit is that it is several years without a reset, and it had some problems with getting the start of the new seasons. Had to delete and reenter some season passes. Wish we didn't have so much stuff saved. I would really like to do a dump and reset on that box.

The H20, while having more features, in not as easy to use as the Tivo. It has worked fairly reliably, only occasionally giving us blank recordings. 

Don't hold your breath for the new Tivos though. Specially if they try to make the Tivo software work in the DTV hardware. It will be a rough startup for them I'm sure.

Don


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

I think you meant HR20, as the H20 isn't a DVR.


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## DonDon (Jan 14, 2007)

JimSpence said:


> I think you meant HR20, as the H20 isn't a DVR.


Ok, that's the one. I've been a little distracted the last few months with a couple of job changes and what not.

Is the HR20 the on with the OTA reciever capability? Cause that's what I was granted from the DTV Gods last year.

Anyways, it mostly works, but is NOT as easy to use as the DTIVO it is sitting on top of. It has actually worked better than expected after reading all of the horror stories here. It is still the original one they installed last year, and I have not had to do a complete reset on the thing, yet. But hey, I am 1 out of millions, right.

Anyways, I will NOT be one of the first persons lining up to be a guinea pig for the NEW HD DTIVO. We will continue to watch most of our stuff on our SD Dtivo, and when things seem stable, and I can put a huge (like 1.5 TB) drive in my HD DTivo, then I am there. By then the cost will prolly have dropped quite a bit.

Don


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

DonDon said:


> Anyways, it mostly works, but is NOT as easy to use as the DTIVO it is sitting on top of.


What do you find not as easy? The interface/UI is indeed different but both are very easy to use once you get used to it. My wife now finds the Tivo we have left hard to use because she's so used to the HR20 interface. It really is just all what you are used to. But anyway, what do you find hard about the HR20? Perhaps we or the folks at DBSTalk can help you out. Glad to hear that you haven't really had any problems with it. That's always a plus.


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## DonDon (Jan 14, 2007)

shibby191 said:


> What do you find not as easy? The interface/UI is indeed different but both are very easy to use once you get used to it. My wife now finds the Tivo we have left hard to use because she's so used to the HR20 interface. It really is just all what you are used to. But anyway, what do you find hard about the HR20? Perhaps we or the folks at DBSTalk can help you out. Glad to hear that you haven't really had any problems with it. That's always a plus.


Well, the biggest difference is that we are looking at a 57" TV from about 10 ft away. The Tivo menus take up the whole screen, and the HR20 menus are scrunched over to the left side.

Other than that, as far as I can tell, the only other problem is that the HR20 has a 50 hour recording capacity, and the Tivo has a 400 hour capacity.

The biggest problem is that she has been using the TIVO interface for 5 years now, and the HR20 is just not as easy to navigate. She is not interested in learning a new interface right now as she is going through some health issues. Even though the TIVO is acting weird with the new seasons, she is refusing to use the HR20 because it just does not hold enough. We can go through the HD content on the HR 20 in a few weeks. The SD Tivo will hold programming for 8 or more months. Even with 97 season passes.

We are going to empty out the Tivo over the Xmas holidays and do a reset on the box. First time in 5 years, so I aint gonna complain too loud. It is a version of software that is a little out of date, but I cannot update as we must have the sharing functionality. It is also Zippered, and we really like some of the zipper features, so we will live with what we have for now.

We had a recent scare with our main box. It turned out to be just a bad power supply. I had a spare on hand. (3 actually. When I saw the writing on the wall last year I bought a couple of spares so I could keep the Tivo online as long as possible.) So I was able to fix it and keep our stuff online. That kind of repair is just not a possibility right now with the DTV equipment.

Look, we have had the 2 side by side for over a year now, and we prefer the Tivo interface. Rationalizing something inferior to us will not help the situation. The DTV boxes sucked at the start, and now are only copying tivo stuff. For a lot of users, they cannot tell the difference. We can.

While I may not be an early adopter of the HDTivo, once things settle down, we will own at least one of the darned things. I also hope to keep my SD Tivos online for a lot longer now that DTV and Tivo are back in bed again.

Don


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

DonDon said:


> Well, the biggest difference is that we are looking at a 57" TV from about 10 ft away. The Tivo menus take up the whole screen, and the HR20 menus are scrunched over to the left side.


Strange. Both my HR21 and HR20 menu's and guide fill the whole screen on my HDTV. Make sure yours is actually outputting at 1080i or 720p (whatever the native resolution of your HDTV is) and perhaps set Native to OFF.

This is an problem I've never heard of. May want to swing by DBSTalk for more detailed help.



> Other than that, as far as I can tell, the only other problem is that the HR20 has a 50 hour recording capacity, and the Tivo has a 400 hour capacity.


Well, if you're going from SD to HD then yea, that's the way technology goes. You'd have the same issue with an HD Tivo. HD just plain takes up more space. The old HR10 HD Tivo only had 20-30 hours HD recording capacity. HR20 up to 50. Either would record hundreds of hours of SD, just like your SD DirecTivo. For the HR20 you can go out and get a external eSata hard drive and plug it in the back. It replaces your internal drive but you can have 200 hours HD recording if you want to.



> The biggest problem is that she has been using the TIVO interface for 5 years now, and the HR20 is just not as easy to navigate. She is not interested in learning a new interface right now as she is going through some health issues.


Well, nothing we can do to help you there.



> Even though the TIVO is acting weird with the new seasons, she is refusing to use the HR20 because it just does not hold enough. We can go through the HD content on the HR 20 in a few weeks. The SD Tivo will hold programming for 8 or more months. Even with 97 season passes.


Again, just a capacity issue with the difference between SD and HD. Not the fault of the HR20 but you can add more capacity at least.



> Look, we have had the 2 side by side for over a year now, and we prefer the Tivo interface. Rationalizing something inferior to us will not help the situation. The DTV boxes sucked at the start, and now are only copying tivo stuff. For a lot of users, they cannot tell the difference. We can.


Wasn't trying to rationalize anything. Many times people complain about the UI on the HR2x and it comes down to something simple like they weren't aware where a menu item was or how to use a certain setting (such as the colored button shortcuts). Point out those things and they are happy. Was simply trying to help you use your new box and see if it was something like that. For you it sounds like it's not the case. An eSata drive would seem to "fix" part of the problem though.

Good luck.


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## mderoller (Jul 23, 2008)

Forgive me for asking a question that may already have been asked. On my HR10-250 can I record OTA HD with just a SD Directv subscription? Having just cancelled HBO I am now considering cancelling my HD subscription if I can still record OTA HD broadcasts. Thanks!

Mark


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I believe that the answer is yes.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

DonDon said:


> ...the HR20 has a 50 hour recording capacity, and the Tivo has a 400 hour capacity...


Not quite. The HR20 has a 50-hour MPEG-4 HD capacity and a 30-hour MPEG-2 capacity, and it can be expanded to close to 700-hour MPEG-4 capacity (if you both replace the internal drive with a 1.5 TB drive and attach another one to the eSATA port).

The HR-10 is shipped with a 30-hour MPEG-2 HD capacity. It might be that the 400 hour number refers to SD, as it would take over 3 TB of HDD to record 400 hours of MPEG-2 HD, so I doubt there are any HR10's that can hold anything near that much.

Weaknees supports upgrades of the HD DVR to 360 hours HD (for just the single internal 1.5 TB drive), and only 200 hours HD for the HR-10 (for two 750 GB internal drives). As you can see, even with both expanded to their max, which is the same sheer drive size, the HR2x has much more storage capability, which is partly due to the smaller size of MPEG-4 files.

Bottom line, every HR2x has HD storage capability as shipped significantly greater than any HR10-250 as shipped, and every HR2x has expansion capability significantly greater than any HR10-250 has.


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## bpratt (Nov 20, 2004)

> (if you both replace the internal drive with a 1.5 TB drive and attach another one to the eSATA port).


Tyrone

Why would you replace the internal drive and then attach one externally? The HR2x series can only use one drive at a time. If the external disk is attached, the internal one won't be used.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

bpratt said:


> Tyrone
> 
> Why would you replace the internal drive and then attach one externally? The HR2x series can only use one drive at a time. If the external disk is attached, the internal one won't be used.


That doesn't mean you can't use both at different times. I do that all the time, with my stock 320 internal and a 1 TB x drive. That technically allows both to count as total storage for the single DVR.

A simple 6-minute reboot allows accessing one drive or the other. To move to the x drive, power it up and reboot. To move to the internal, power the x drive down and reboot. If the x drive is attached _but powered down_, the internal will be used even though the x drive is still attached. There is no need to disconnect and reattach cables at all (in fact eSATA connectors are not built for regular multiple connect/disconnect scenarios as you can wear them out that way).

Of course that doesn't make it practical to both replace _and _add, but the example was just that, an example illustrating the capability. DTV could make it MUCH more practical, however, by caching a list of what is on each drive in the flash memory. That way you could access a list of what's on both drives all of the time. They could also pop up a dialog, say if you happened to select a program for playback that was on the other drive, giving you the opportunity to reboot to get to that recording.

But as to the original question of comparitive capacity, A HR2x using even just a single 1.5 TB drive can still hold much more than an HR10 with two 750's (the max capable upgrade by Weaknees).


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Wow. 15 posts and they are ALL SPAM? Somebody should kick you in the butt with an uggly pair furry boots.


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## boneskrw (Jan 28, 2006)

Since you're worried that something better may be available in 2010, what's the downside of keeping your HR10 and getting a HD DVR from Direct TV? If you insist, they will supply the HD DVR at little or no cost, depending on how long you've been a customer. I had no trouble getting one at no cost. When the technician arrives, you need to insist on the exact DVR you want. You don't have to take a model you don't want, regardless of what some of these posts say. In fact, an option is to have the DVR shipped to your house and set the appointment for install after you see if you got what you wanted. It helps to tell Direct TV ahead of time whether you need OTA capability with the DVR. 

I have an HR20-700 and like it. I hardly use the HR10 any more. I especially like the bar that shows how much HDD remains and the ability to keep watching a program while I look at lists of program a future recording--features which Tivo does not have. I can't imagine forgoeing all the HD channels Direct TV offers in the hope that a better DVR will be offered later. The new non-Tivo units do everything the HR10 did and much more except for the lack of dual live buffers. 

As some have pointed out, the early Tivos had their share of problems, as did the early HR2X's. Why go through the growing pains of another new Tivo when it can be avoided? The software on the HR20 and others has been improved in many ways since I got mine a little over a year ago.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

bareyb said:


> Wow. 15 posts and they are ALL SPAM? Somebody should kick you in the butt with an uggly pair furry boots.


Huh????


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

JimSpence said:


> Huh????


I'm guessing that there were some spam posts since deleted.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Yeah, I thought of that, but posted my comment anyway. 

But, to reiterate what I'm doing with my HR10. It's sitting under the HR20 and working quite well. Since I have the DNS networks and OTA, it's great to have the third and fourth tuner, as well as a large drive for SD. Even when DirecTV finally shuts down the MPEG2 versions of DNS, I'll keep it around for OTA.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

stevel said:


> I'm guessing that there were some spam posts since deleted.


yes it was a huge paragraph about..well not worth talking about


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

> I'm guessing that there were some spam posts since deleted.


It was SPAM. Some guy went around and posted the same Ad on fifteen different threads most of which I am subscribed to. 

Looks like Mike's been in with his swift sword of justice and made them all disappear.


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