# Bolt not detecting HD channels - Utah



## KeithTric (Sep 10, 2016)

Am I alone in this?
My Bolt is 6 months old and has worked just fine. Bad news is that it ceased to be able to receive any of the main channels (2 thro' 11 - thats CBS, NBC PBS etc) since 9/2/16.
I only use antenna input. I have no cable.
There is no signal showing in 'live TV' mode. 
For example for channel 7-1 my Bolt is 'looking' at KUEDDT. However if I use the 'antenna signal strength' feature there is no digital signal on that channel - the digital signal for channel 7-1 is on KUED-HD. 
While in antenna signal strength mode - I can see a 'perfect' image on KUED-HD . Many hours spent with phone support and on-line chat. Last night they agreed to exchange my Bolt. Best-Buy gave me the exchange unit this morning (thank-you!).
IT HAS THE SAME PROBLEM. 
I do not know if the transmission specification has changed or whether Bolt has changed.
My 3 tv's can all receive these local antenna channels perfectly.
Bolt cannot. My system is dead.


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## mangochutney (Apr 7, 2015)

Test the physical cable/socket/jack/plug the bolts plug into.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Check your show descriptions and tell us whether they all have a "***" at the end. If so that means you have been updated with the Rovi guide data from the original Gracenote.

There have been reports of issues with the guide, service locations and tuning for folks using antennas. It sounds like you may be caught in this. I don't know the details as I am on cable, so search the forums for threads discussing the new Rovi data, there are tons.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

KeithTric said:


> Am I alone in this?
> My Bolt is 6 months old and has worked just fine. Bad news is that it ceased to be able to receive any of the main channels (2 thro' 11 - thats CBS, NBC PBS etc) since 9/2/16.
> I only use antenna input. I have no cable.
> The is no signal showing in 'live TV' mode.
> ...


KUEDDT transmits on UHF channel 42. TiVo shows it on virtual channel 7. Check this in Settings, Channels, Signal Strength - Antenna. When you select 7.1, does it show physical 42 and show signal strength? What if you select 42? Is there something there. The new guide may not be correct. The TiVo does not know PSIP like your TV does. Also, check your zipcode on tvguide.com.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KUED


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## KeithTric (Sep 10, 2016)

mangochutney said:


> Test the physical cable/socket/jack/plug the bolts plug into.


I have done this - first thing I did! Please note that I get a perfect picture if I look at the correct channel in Antenna signal strength mode. The Bolt does not 'see' the corret channel in 'live tv' mode


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## robertdavisj (Mar 28, 2016)

ok, try this. I had a similar problem and had to work with tiVo to fix. But basically you go to network and connect to the network twice then power down the bolt. Then it takes a bit but they all seem to be back. I am also in Utah and have had many line up issues since the month started but it has been working good the last week. Here are the instructions from the tivo site.

I am experiencing:

Guide Data Issues

M60 or M61 errors

Incorrect Channel Lineup

Missing or "Wrong" Channels

Wishlist Issues

Inability to Record

Inability to Search

No Program/Poster Art or Images

Force two connection to the TiVo Service, the second right after the first.
Powercycle a TiVo device.
Check if you are still experiencing the problem. You may begin to see results within 30 minutes, it might take up to 3 hours. 
If there is no progress: Repeat Guided Setup.
Check if you are still experiencing the problem. You may begin to see results within 30 minutes, it might take up to 3 hours. 
If you are still experiencing an issue with the Tivo please contact TiVo Support or see TiVo.com/lineup.


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## KeithTric (Sep 10, 2016)

JoeKustra said:


> KUEDDT transmits on UHF channel 42. TiVo shows it on virtual channel 7. Check this in Settings, Channels, Signal Strength - Antenna. When you select 7.1, does it show physical 42 and show signal strength? What if you select 42? Is there something there. The new guide may not be correct. The TiVo does not know PSIP like your TV does. Also, check your zipcode on tvguide.com.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KUED


I agree, this is the area that we need to look at. The Bolt is looking for KUEDDT, but - if I look at that channel in 'Antenna Signal Strength' it says that 7-1 KUEDDT is on Frequency 42. It also says '"No Digital Signal". 
If I move the channel up one step, I see 7-1 KUED-HD on Frequency 47. This shows a perfect picture (and sound) with a peak strength of 60 (green bars).

My problem is that the Bolt does not (cannot?) see this HD channel.

It is also interesting to note that if I do a 'Antenna channel scan / verify channel scan' then Bolt only finds 8 channels - most of them at channel 24 and above.
If I 'scan for all antenna channels' then Bolt can see 30 channels. The difference is the is all the -HD channels for 2-1,2-2, 4-1, 5-1, 7-1 etc etc.

So is there a fundemental reason why the bolt cannot see these -HD channels?


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## KeithTric (Sep 10, 2016)

robertdavisj said:


> ok, try this. I had a similar problem and had to work with tiVo to fix. But basically you go to network and connect to the network twice then power down the bolt. Then it takes a bit but they all seem to be back. I am also in Utah and have had many line up issues since the month started but it has been working good the last week. Here are the instructions from the tivo site.
> 
> I am experiencing:
> 
> ...


I'll try anything!!
I had a 20 minute chat with support.
I had a 30 minute call to support - then I submitted a full list of the 30 channels can see and compared that to the channels that the Bolt was 'looking' at
I received no email response or update of channels that came the guided set up and/or service connection.
yesterday I had a 110 minute call to a helpful support person (Erica) who talked to engineering. It was their decision to get an exchange unit. regrettably with no resolution.

From the comments made today I am assuming that the channel lineup is driven from the guide. I live up a mountain, so my channels are from a repeater station. I have tried aligning to other adjacent zip codes - so far with no success. I would have hoped that the complete list of receivable stations that I submitted to Tivo support would have given Tivo the ability to realign my guide.
So far no success.

I tried your approach - two hits at service and a reboot.
It did not work for me - that was a pity!


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

KeithTric said:


> ....... From the comments made today I am assuming that the channel lineup is driven from the guide. I live up a mountain, so my channels are from a repeater station. I have tried aligning to other adjacent zip codes - so far with no success. I would have hoped that the complete list of receivable stations that I submitted to Tivo support would have given Tivo the ability to realign my guide. So far no success. ......


Like I said, that looks to be your issue. Please read the Rovi guide update threads here for some info and keep pestering TiVo to fix the guide. I see you're on a repeater so I'm sure it's because they don't account for that in their guide for your zip.



HarperVision said:


> Check your show descriptions and tell us whether they all have a "***" at the end. If so that means you have been updated with the Rovi guide data from the original Gracenote.
> 
> There have been reports of issues with the guide, service locations and tuning for folks using antennas. It sounds like you may be caught in this. I don't know the details as I am on cable, so search the forums for threads discussing the new Rovi data, there are tons.


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

Yes, the problem is the screwed up Rovi lineup. If you go into your channel list, I'm betting you will see duplicate channels that are BOTH checked, and you cannot remove the check mark for the wrong channels. You THINK you can remove just one check, but if you back out and re-enter the list, you will find that bot of the duplicate channels are either selected or de-selected together. I posted the details of this problem in another thread about no signal strength.

See this thread: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=11010666#post11010666

If this is indeed your problem, then the only fix so far is to convince the lineup team to enter the actual translator call letters as discrete channels in your lineup - they do not seem to understand this, and you will need to do your own research on the FCC database to identify the correct translators for your area and tell them what to enter.


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## KeithTric (Sep 10, 2016)

V7Goose said:


> Yes, the problem is the screwed up Rovi lineup. If you go into your channel list, I'm betting you will see duplicate channels that are BOTH checked, and you cannot remove the check mark for the wrong channels. You THINK you can remove just one check, but if you back out and re-enter the list, you will find that bot of the duplicate channels are either selected or de-selected together. I posted the details of this problem in another thread about no signal strength. ......
> 
> I agree that is the relevant area. It took the support guys more that two weeks to accept that. My problem is that after more than 3 weeks they have not been able to solve the problem.
> 
> ...


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

The actual channel NAME that they enter does not seem to be too important for receiving the channel, so long as they get the frequency correct (but I am not real sure of that). I still have several channels that are shown incorrectly, but I can receive them. For example, they added the ABC affiliate here as K31KB-D, 7-1 [Freq 31], but that station is actually in Deming, NM, about 200 miles away! My real ABC channel here is K31MW-D, 7-1 [Freq 31].

In this case, I can actually watch ABC on 7-1, even though the channel name is wrong; because, the channel FREQUENCY us correct for the channel NUMBER. But the Guide data is wrong - it matches the Deming station instead of ours. In my channel list I can find lots of other stations shown to broadcast on [Freq 31], but none of them use display channel 7-1, and when I check the signal strength meter, all of the channels that show [Freq 31] also show a strong signal strength, but no picture - the ONLY channels that show a picture on [Freq31] are those that are also listed for display channel 7, and then it makes no difference at all what the channel NAME is.

I see the same thing with another mistake they did with my lineup. My NBC channels here are K30GM on 8-1, 8-2 and 8-3. When they finally added those three channels, they also added a WRONG channel "K30MG-D3" as 8-3 (note the "MG/GM" is reversed). I can receive the local 8-3 on either of those channels, but the guide data is only correct for K30GM - the other one is somewhere in Missouri!

So my conclusion (which may or may not be correct) is that to receive it, the channel name is not important, so long as it is not an exact duplicate of one already in the list. They could call the channel "Dog", so long as it has the correct channel number AND frequency (e.g. 7-1, freq 31). BUT the Guide data MUST match the channel name, so you could tune in "Dog", but there would be no Guide data for it.

This problem is further complicated in rural areas like Utah and NM where so much of the state is served by low power translators instead of the primary stations. Here in NM, all primary stations are out of Albuqerque (but there are also a few affiliates in other medium sized towns that have a different name and their own list of low power translators). The primary ABC station is named KOAT-TV. All of the low power translators for ABC in NM have different call letters (such as our local K31MW-D or Deming's K31KB-D), but in the signal they still call themselves "KOAT-TV". If the TiVo channel lineup does not already include a channel for the local signal, then the channel scan finds it and adds it to the lineup with the name it is using, and that works great IF and ONLY IF there is NOT ALREADY a channel in the lineup with the identical name! But if you already have a channel that uses the same name and channel number (even if it is on a different frequency), you get the duplicate channel where the TiVo will never tune to the second one of the same name!

This is a convoluted mess. It seems to me that the correct long term solution would be to fix the bug in the TiVo code that will not allow the box to tune to a second channel with the same name, even though it is on a different frequency - when you have duplicated channel names, only the first one can be tuned in. If this bug was fixed, then the channel scan could find and properly add any local channels, and if the names matched the primary DMA channels, the Guide data would also be correct. And out whole channel lineups would not need to have hundreds of bogus channels for communities from all over the state.


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## KeithTric (Sep 10, 2016)

Well - at last I have a working system again!!!
My system crashed to a standstill on 9/2, and last weekend 10/9 it woke up again. Support had finally read the information that I had sent in nearly 3 weeks before, and sorted my channel listing to give me the frequencies that I had told them were correct from my local transmitter. Why they had chosen to send me two set ups to the wrong frequencies was never explained. 
Of course, there was no notification from support that the new set up had been sent, and no apology for the fact that it took almost 5 weeks to get my system up and running.
So my view of Tivo is - nice concept, not a bad hardware product, poor user s/w interface (why can't a user have the ability to set a channel list?) - howerever the support team and it's management is simply abysmal. Why can't a serious fault be allocated to an individual to follow up and keep the long suffering customer informed. Why - when an interim solution is sent out which is incorrect - is the request for more work put to end of the line. After inconveniencing a user for a month - I would have thought that priority action would have been appropriate. 
If there was a sensible alternative available - Tivo as a company would survive a few days at best.


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## aspexil (Oct 16, 2015)

KeithTric said:


> If there was a sensible alternative available - Tivo as a company would survive a few days at best.


There is the problem. There is no sensible alternative. Especially for OTA. ChannelMaster is okay but no Mini capabilities. Tablo is another but when I started down this path there were picture quality complaints so I avoided it.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

KeithTric said:


> ... poor user s/w interface (why can't a user have the ability to set a channel list?) -


I would disagree with "poor" word, but that's a matter of personal taste.

What are you trying to achieve with regards "ability to set a channel list"? Just making sure that you are aware of "my channels" and "favorites".

https://support.tivo.com/articles/Features_Use/How-to-Add-Channels-to-My-List-of-Favorites


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## KeithTric (Sep 10, 2016)

thyname said:


> I would disagree with "poor" word, but that's a matter of personal taste.
> 
> What are you trying to achieve with regards "ability to set a channel list"? Just making sure that you are aware of "my channels" and "favorites".
> 
> https://support.tivo.com/articles/Features_Use/How-to-Add-Channels-to-My-List-of-Favorites


No I wantr more thn that.
All my channels were incorrectly set. For example. Take PBS which is here channel 7.1. When I had the fault condition 7.1 was set to "frequency 42" 
You see this information when you are looking at channels in the 'check antenna signal strength. mode.
The trouble was that there was no signal on 7.1 on frequency 42. the correct 7.1 was on frequency 47. Although I told support, then sent me a line up for 7.1 on frequency 25 and another for frequency 33. Eventually - after literally hours on the phone - the sent me a line up for the channel I had known - on 47. Then I had a working system.

For me it wasn't only channel 7.1 that was wrong - it was all the 30 channels I could see on my antenna. I don't understand why it would be impossible to link the signal strength test so that any signal the antenna can actually see could be set by the user to be in the channel listing. That capability would have saved me hours.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

KeithTric said:


> No I wantr more thn that.
> All my channels were incorrectly set. For example. Take PBS which is here channel 7.1. When I had the fault condition 7.1 was set to "frequency 42"
> You see this information when you are looking at channels in the 'check antenna signal strength. mode.
> The trouble was that there was no signal on 7.1 on frequency 42. the correct 7.1 was on frequency 47. Although I told support, then sent me a line up for 7.1 on frequency 25 and another for frequency 33. Eventually - after literally hours on the phone - the sent me a line up for the channel I had known - on 47. Then I had a working system.
> ...


I don't know why you had such troubles with OTA, and I feel for you.

When I set up my Roamio OTA a couple of months ago, it was pretty seamless. Severeal channels were included, that I did not get, but I simply unchecked. All in all, I spent about 20 minutes to do that, and no issues ever since.

Again, I am sorry you are having so many issues, and had to waste so much time on the phone.


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