# Series 3 HD TiVo Upgrade Information



## weaknees (May 11, 2001)

It's still early, but we do have some preliminary information about upgrades for the Series 3 HD TiVo DVRs. Basically, while there are still some details to be worked out, these units appear to be as upgradeable as older TiVos.

We have some screenshots of an upgrade here:

http://www.wkblog.com/

And we'll have more info as it comes.


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## cap (Jan 27, 2001)

Any prices yet?


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## Agent86 (Jan 18, 2002)

Excellent!


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Cool. A TiVo that can't be upgraded is like a car that can't be turned into a time machine.


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## andydumi (Jun 26, 2006)

926 hours in sd... overkill? i guess so unless you have 127 season passes like someone in another thread...


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## talmania (Sep 7, 2006)

Agent86 said:


> Excellent!


++!!!!!!!!!

I can't WAIT to upgrade! Thanks for the info!


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Do the production Series3 units have that "warranty void if removed" sticker on the rear of the case, which had to be broken to open the box? Or was that only on preproduction units?


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## Krellis (Mar 27, 2003)

bkdtv said:


> Do the production Series3 units have that "warranty void if removed" sticker on the rear of the case, which had to be broken to open the box? Or was that only on preproduction units?


If they do, I guess that makes it a GOOD thing that TiVo has such a limited warranty


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## TexasAg (Apr 2, 2006)

Would you need to expand the hard drive before the CableCards are installed, or could you do it after?


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## tunnelengineer (Jul 21, 2006)

What size drive did you slap in there in order to get that capacity? Guessing 750 GB?


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## weaknees (May 11, 2001)

tunnelengineer said:


> What size drive did you slap in there in order to get that capacity? Guessing 750 GB?


Yes, that capacity is with a 750 GB drive.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Yes, the linked page says it's a 750GB drive...


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

cap said:


> Any prices yet?


$799 says their site.


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## talmania (Sep 7, 2006)

Western Digital doesn't even sell a 750GB drive! I thought the SATA connectors on the internal drive were proprietary to Western Digital?? I'm guessing with this news that they aren't??


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

cwoody222 said:


> $799 says their site.


That's for the unit itself, not the upgrade...


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## tunnelengineer (Jul 21, 2006)

Amnesia said:


> Yes, the linked page says it's a 750GB drive...


......(punching self in face for asking noob question that was answered on the linked page I looked at)..................................    ...............


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## Canoehead (Sep 12, 2006)

talmania said:


> Western Digital doesn't even sell a 750GB drive! I thought the SATA connectors on the internal drive were proprietary to Western Digital?? I'm guessing with this news that they aren't??


You are correct - can't find one anyway. I guess you could use adaptors to make the funny WD plug fit (or perhaps just cut off the excess bits) and then use an adaptor for the power plug (I've got a bunch of these from some retail kit drives I bought a while ago).

At any rate, I'd just like to be able to purchase the software and instructions to do the upgrade myself connecting both the new and old drives to my ESATA ports - presumably not in Windows XP?


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## ljg (Jan 23, 2003)

Weakness:

What appears to be the maximum hard drive configuration for upgrade, and will the internal upgrade affect the external Sata when that becomes functional.

Good work weakness!!!


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## Agent86 (Jan 18, 2002)

Any word when the Interactive Upgrade Instructions will be updated?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

It lists the drives as Seagate drives(500GB and 750GB) on Weaknees site. I wonder how they get it to work with the WD connector?


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## Sepia (Jan 5, 2002)

cap said:


> Any prices yet?


I looked up the price of the 750GB ATA Seagate, and found it for $328 (weekend special at supergooddeals.com). This means that if they get bulk orders, they should be able to get a better deal than that at Weaknees and I would imagine they add a well deserved profit on top, and you guess the price...

http://www.supergooddeal.com/category_s/198.htm

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 Hard drive 750GB internal 3.5" SATA II NCQ 7200RPM 16MB Cache ST3750640AS
Our Price: $340.00
Weekend Sales: $327.99

- Sepia


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## rodalpho (Sep 12, 2006)

By changing the hardware configuration, doesn't that technically mean that your series3 is no longer cablelabs certified? Is that something we should be worried about? I always assumed that's why tivo only released one series3, instead of 160GB, 250GB, and 750GB models.


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## talmania (Sep 7, 2006)

Sepia said:


> I looked up the price of the 750GB ATA Seagate, and found it for $328 (weekend special at supergooddeals.com). This means that if they get bulk orders, they should be able to get a better deal than that at Weaknees and I would imagine they add a well deserved profit on top, and you guess the price...
> 
> http://www.supergooddeal.com/category_s/198.htm
> 
> ...


Looking at weaknees website the price for a single 750GB drive replacement kit for a S2-DT Tivo is 599.00 I'd expect the price to be similar for the S3 upgrade. Possibly a little more as the 750GB SATA drive is about 50.00 more expensive than the IDE version (at least they were at the local Fry's this past weekend).


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

They're offering them for sale now http://www.weaknees.com/series-3-hd-tivo-tcd648250b.php, so I just ordered a 750GB.

I'd mailed them yesterday saying I'd take one of their hands when they did.

I can live with 750, I've been relatively happy with 600GB for a couple of years.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

rodalpho said:


> By changing the hardware configuration, doesn't that technically mean that your series3 is no longer cablelabs certified? Is that something we should be worried about? I always assumed that's why tivo only released one series3, instead of 160GB, 250GB, and 750GB models.


I fully expect TiVo to eventually offer larger drive configurations of the S3.


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## Sepia (Jan 5, 2002)

talmania said:


> Looking at weaknees website the price for a single 750GB drive replacement kit for a S2-DT Tivo is 599.00 I'd expect the price to be similar for the S3 upgrade. Possibly a little more as the 750GB SATA drive is about 50.00 more expensive than the IDE version (at least they were at the local Fry's this past weekend).


That sounds a bit steep for simply copying over the new 750GB drive all the data from a virgin S3 

Am I missing something? $600 - $350 = $250 profit for a simple copy?

- Sepia


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

andydumi said:


> 926 hours in sd... overkill? i guess so unless you have 127 season passes like someone in another thread...


or realize that you don't need to delete shows worth keeping, or waste time burning them to a DVD you'll never watch.


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## talmania (Sep 7, 2006)

btwyx said:


> They're offering them for sale now http://www.weaknees.com/series-3-hd-tivo-tcd648250b.php, so I just ordered a 750GB.
> 
> I'd mailed them yesterday saying I'd take one of their hands when they did.
> 
> I can live with 750, I've been relatively happy with 600GB for a couple of years.


Excellent! Order placed! Shipping the 15th of the month according to them.


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## talmania (Sep 7, 2006)

Sepia said:


> That sounds a bit steep for simply copying over the new 750GB drive all the data from a virgin S3
> 
> Am I missing something? $600 - $350 = $250 profit for a simple copy?
> 
> - Sepia


Yes it does sound expensive and if the process was the same as the last Tivo I upgraded (early series 2 model) then I'd probably do it myself but AFAIK there could be lots of differences and I'm far too impatient to wait for the community to figure it out.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

andydumi said:


> 926 hours in sd... overkill? i guess so unless you have 127 season passes like someone in another thread...


I have had 127 season passes before, and 926 hours is overkill.

However, 98 hours of HD isn't, its still a little on the skimpy side.


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## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

Sepia said:


> That sounds a bit steep for simply copying over the new 750GB drive all the data from a virgin S3
> 
> Am I missing something? $600 - $350 = $250 profit for a simple copy?


I'm paying for the convenience of it, you obviously don't find it that convenient. They have a business to run, and that expensive. I'm helping keep them in business.

Also their customer service is really outstanding.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

btwyx said:


> However, 98 hours of HD isn't, its still a little on the skimpy side.


Sure beats the 6412.


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## talmania (Sep 7, 2006)

davezatz said:


> Sure beats the 6412.


LOL! You mean that whole 10-15 hours isn't enough for you? Some people are just greedy!!!


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

btwyx said:


> However, 98 hours of HD isn't, its still a little on the skimpy side.


98 hours should hold you over until that eSATA port is turned on. From what I hear it's rumored to be part of the KidZone update which should be out in November. (possibly sooner) Once that happens you should be able to add another 750GB for a total of about 200 hours of HD.

Dan


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

btwyx said:


> I have had 127 season passes before, and 926 hours is overkill.
> 
> However, 98 hours of HD isn't, its still a little on the skimpy side.


Amen!

99.9% of what I plan on recording on my S3 will be HD programming. I have 2 other TiVo's that can record hundreds of hours of crapvision Standard Def if I need it.

I am always having to pick and choose what I want to save and delete on my TWC SA 8300HD DVR since it only has room for about 20-25 of HD.


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## Sepia (Jan 5, 2002)

btwyx said:


> I'm paying for the convenience of it, you obviously don't find it that convenient. They have a business to run, and that expensive. I'm helping keep them in business.
> 
> Also their customer service is really outstanding.


You are right, I am wrong, and I admit it. I am very technical which is why I reacted with incredulity initially. When I think about it, it's a great service for the community and $250 is worth it for most folks.

I would have loved it though if it were a bit cheaper so I can avoid doing it myself, but it crossed the price-point where it is worth it for me to bring out my Linux box and do it... That said, I have recommended them and will again to friends who are in need of upgrades :up:

- Sepia


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## Canoehead (Sep 12, 2006)

Wow - that markup just got a little too rich for my blood. I'd happily pay Weaknees a reasonably price for a CD with the necessary software and a set of instructions, but $599 for a $350 HDD is not my cup of tea.

Are there any plans to do something like that? Its not a dis on what Weaknees does - it's a valuble service that folks are willing to pay for - but I'd rather take on the challenge myself and save a few bucks (I have this new $799 charge on my card this week...)


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

Canoehead said:


> Wow - that markup just got a little too rich for my blood. I'd happily pay Weaknees a reasonably price for a CD with the necessary software and a set of instructions, but $599 for a $350 HDD is not my cup of tea.
> 
> Are there any plans to do something like that? Its not a dis on what Weaknees does - it's a valuble service that folks are willing to pay for - but I'd rather take on the challenge myself and save a few bucks (I have this new $799 charge on my card this week...)


I am with you. I would buy the upgrade CD and instructions. 
$600 to to upgrade and $800 device with a new disk 

- Rich


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## beejpowers (Sep 29, 2004)

When replacing the stock drive on a TiVo you must do an "expand" to add 2 partitions to the drive to utilize the additional drive space over the original size. But isn't that the limitation of the "expand" command? Aren't there then too many partitions for the OS?

I was under the impression that you can only "expand" once.

What I am getting at is this: if you replace the stock drive with an "expanded" larger drive, are you making it so you can never add the eSATA drive? Will the OS have too many disk partitions and say "Good job, tool, you have an extra drive that has nothing to do now"

Or is that limit "per drive" i.e. new drive = new set of partitions?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

beej said:


> When replacing the stock drive on a TiVo you must do an "expand" to add 2 partitions to the drive to utilize the additional drive space over the original size. But isn't that the limitation of the "expand" command? Aren't there then too many partitions for the OS?
> 
> I was under the impression that you can only "expand" once.
> 
> ...


I don't think anyone could even speculate as to how it will work with the eSATA drive since its not known how it will work (maybe TiVo doesn't even know yet). Because they are making expansion so easy, they also are going to have to build in a lot of protections it seems (like removing the esata drive not destroying your internal drive). So we will have to wait and see how they are going to do it.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

talmania said:


> Western Digital doesn't even sell a 750GB drive! I thought the SATA connectors on the internal drive were proprietary to Western Digital?? I'm guessing with this news that they aren't??


I don't they could call it SATA if it didn't use the SATA connectors. The SATA specification even dictates the location of the connectors on the back of the drive so you can put anybody's drive in your hot-swap tray.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

vman41 said:


> I don't they could call it SATA if it didn't use the SATA connectors. The SATA specification even dictates the location of the connectors on the back of the drive so you can put anybody's drive in your hot-swap tray.


WD's drives are compatible with SATA specs, but they ALSO support a proprietary style of connector that is supposed to be more secure. That seems to be the cable TiVo is using, and while the SATA part plugs into the board, it looks like the power leads are soldered on.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

bkdtv said:


> Do the production Series3 units have that "warranty void if removed" sticker on the rear of the case, which had to be broken to open the box? Or was that only on preproduction units?


Mine didn't.

Opening it still voids the warranty, of course.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

weaknees said:


> And we'll have more info as it comes.


That was fast. Need someone to 'review' the upgrade? ;-)


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

TexasAg said:


> Would you need to expand the hard drive before the CableCards are installed, or could you do it after?


It shouldn't matter, the cards are wed to IDs on the board, not the drive.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

rodalpho said:


> By changing the hardware configuration, doesn't that technically mean that your series3 is no longer cablelabs certified?


I don't think so, the capabilites and features of the unit hasn't changed - same software, etc.

It isn't why TiVo doesn't make more versions - that's manufacturing efficiency. When you make multiple versions you buy less of a given part, which can increase unit cost (less of a bulk buy). Then you have multiple products to produce on the line and manage. Multiple packaging versions, even if it is just stickers. Then multiple units to warehouse and manage in the supply line. Then retailers don't always like it, because they have the same issues, and they can end up just ordering one version. Like with the S2, you often saw stores with only the 80-hour model or just the 40-hour model, while TiVo.com had the 40, 80, and 140.

There will probably be some diversity at some point, I'm guessing a 500GB model, but not too much. Same thing happened with Palm - they expanding their product lines so much it was confusing and sales on all models was poor. So they contracted to fewer lines and that's done better for them.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

megazone said:


> Mine didn't.
> 
> Opening it still voids the warranty, of course.


Mine didn't either. But I noticed one of the leaked photos had it. Perhaps they broke testers/reviewers into groups to help identify the guilty.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

davezatz said:


> Mine didn't either. But I noticed one of the leaked photos had it. Perhaps they broke testers/reviewers into groups to help identify the guilty.


Beta testers had their boxes a lot longer, months, so they were probably pre-production and they probably didn't want testers looking inside - hence stickers.


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