# Dead... again...



## kcarlile (Nov 6, 2005)

Hey guys, I know I've posted about this before, but I'm hoping for new info. Occasionally (every few months or so), my upgraded S2 (original, 60 GB version), now updated with 2 120 GB drives starts rebooting over and over and over again. The only way I've found to get it back is to power it off for about 24 hours or so, then enter pause 57 and pause 58 until it magically finishes booting. It always gets past the Welcome...starting up screen, but reboots after a little while on the Just a few minutes more screen. 

I did replace the power supply with one from weaknees about a year ago, so I'm pretty sure it's not that. It's also behind a UPS, and I know the fan's working. I don't hear any funny noises from the drives. 

Any ideas? I'm getting kinda tired of this, but I don't have the cash to drop on a new box, and I also like my lifetime sub a whole lot.


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## BTUx9 (Nov 13, 2003)

if you pull the drive, enable console logging, and monitor the serial port, you could at least find out what message is accompanying the reboot loop.


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## HomeUser (Jan 12, 2003)

Pull the drives and check them in a PC with the drives manufactures diagnostics (normally free).

You might want to go back to a large single drive using MFSLive It has fixed a couple of problems that were in MFSTools.

When you setup your dual drive was the size of the swap partition increased?
Hows the cooling?


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## HomeUser (Jan 12, 2003)

BTUx9 said:


> if you pull the drive, enable console logging, and monitor the serial port, you could at least find out what message is accompanying the reboot loop.


 Good Idea, how do you do that on a Series 2? The only way I know to look at the log files is using a PC booted with one of the MFSTools boot CD then mount the var partition.


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## BTUx9 (Nov 13, 2003)

HomeUser said:


> Good Idea, how do you do that on a Series 2? The only way I know to look at the log files is using a PC booted with one of the MFSTools boot CD then mount the var partition.


most hacking sites give instructions on changing boot params, and that works even on machines that normally require a prom replacement to hack


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## kcarlile (Nov 6, 2005)

HomeUser said:


> Pull the drives and check them in a PC with the drives manufactures diagnostics (normally free).
> 
> You might want to go back to a large single drive using MFSLive It has fixed a couple of problems that were in MFSTools.
> 
> ...


I would love to put the drives back to a single large drive, but when I tried that, and looked on these forums, I found out that because I had already increased the primary size once (from 60 to 120) I was out of luck. I'm not sure if that's all together, or just with keeping the programs. I'd like to do that--there's this Indycar race I'd love to watch. 

I did not increase the size of the swap, as far as I remember. Cooling is stock; it does get quite warm in there, but I don't think I've seen internal temps much in excess of 50 deg C.

There's no issue with running manufacturer diagnostics on either A or B drive? They're different brands (Maxtor and Western Digital, I think).

I must say, it's something of a relief to hear that it might be a drive issue.


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## HomeUser (Jan 12, 2003)

kcarlile: You can go back to a single drive without keeping recordings if it is only a few recordings that you want to keep use TiVo desktop to save them on a PC then move them back to the TiVo after the drive change.

BTUx9: Thanks for the link checking it out now.


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## kcarlile (Nov 6, 2005)

Yeah, if I can scare up a large ATA/100 drive, I may just try that, in case it is a software/hard drive problem. Bye bye, recordings! If I can get the thing up, I'll probably start transferring recordings. Unfortunately, I have about 4 seasons of West Wing I haven't watched on there. That's what Netflix is for, innit?  

That would probably solve my cooling issues (if that's what's going on). I think I have a few backups of the OS on CD somewhere. 

Here's a question: If I have backups of the 120+120, can I put the OS on a 160 GB just for testing, or will that fail because of the smaller/different drive size?


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## HomeUser (Jan 12, 2003)

kcarlile said:


> Here's a question: If I have backups of the 120+120, can I put the OS on a 160 GB just for testing, or will that fail because of the smaller/different drive size?


Yes, The MFSLive Interactive Command Generator came up with this command for the MFSLive CD
backup -f 9999 -qso - /dev/hda /dev/hdb | restore -s 128 -xzpi - /dev/hdc

The setup I selected
TiVo 'A' is Primary Master
TIVo 'B' is Primary Slave
New 160G is Secondary Master



kcarlile said:


> Unfortunately, I have about 4 seasons of West Wing I haven't watched on there. That's what Netflix is for, innit?


You could use Amazon Unbox to download West Wing but at $1.99 per episode  I did the same with 24 recorded all 6 seasons currently I have only the last 2 seasons to watch before I can go back to a single drive with weakened marathons I just might get it done before the new season starts only 48 hrs togo


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## BTUx9 (Nov 13, 2003)

IF you can hack your tivo, you could pull the shows you want to save that way (but that's extraction, so I can't discuss details here)


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## kcarlile (Nov 6, 2005)

Yeah, I got the thing up (kinda) by using the pause-58, but it was really jerky, and didn't want to play at all. When I rebooted it, it was back to the same old story. I'm going to try checking the hard drives today at work (PC at home isn't exactly stable...)


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## kcarlile (Nov 6, 2005)

OK, definitely a bad hard drive. It's an older Maxtor, so I'm not sure I can find the same one again. Can I replace it with a different brand? (especially since the Western Digital was older than that...)

Actually, it looks like it died a heat death. It's the farthest from the fan. Can I replace it with a laptop drive?


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## Finnstang (Sep 11, 2003)

Yes, you can replace it with a different brand.

No idea about using a laptop HDD.


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## kcarlile (Nov 6, 2005)

Finnstang said:


> Yes, you can replace it with a different brand.
> 
> No idea about using a laptop HDD.


The trick will be getting one with exactly the right size. The Maxtor that's bad is actually 122 GB, which will make finding a replacement difficult.


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## HomeUser (Jan 12, 2003)

kcarlile said:


> OK, definitely a bad hard drive. It's an older Maxtor, so I'm not sure I can find the same one again. Can I replace it with a different brand? (especially since the Western Digital was older than that...)
> 
> Actually, it looks like it died a heat death. It's the farthest from the fan. Can I replace it with a laptop drive?


Yes you can use a Laptop drive with an Laptop to IDE adapter.

You can use almost any IDE drive as long as the drive is the same size or larger any extra space will just not be used.

Use dd_rescue to binary copy the failing drive.


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## kcarlile (Nov 6, 2005)

I'd love to use a 120 GB laptop drive, but I have the feeling the copy will show up as too small, thanks to Maxtor's non-standard size (despite saying 120 GB on the drive itself.) I'm guessing I'll have to use a 160 GB 3.5" drive. Any tips on cooling? This drive is on the left side of the TiVo (from the front), so it's a long way from the fan, but right over the vents. Since this is a TCD140060, there's only an internal fan.


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## HomeUser (Jan 12, 2003)

No idea, is there any room for a drive cooler above or below the bracket? You will want to replace the fan if it does not turn freely.


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## BTUx9 (Nov 13, 2003)

re: cooling - get rid of the 2 drives and replace with a single, larger one.

If you want a REAL challenge, you could probably copy the drives a partition at a time, then use info on the other forum to coalesce the last 2 or 3 MFS partition sets (I haven't done this, so can't say more than that it is theoretically possible)


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## kcarlile (Nov 6, 2005)

BTUx9 said:


> re: cooling - get rid of the 2 drives and replace with a single, larger one.
> 
> If you want a REAL challenge, you could probably copy the drives a partition at a time, then use info on the other forum to coalesce the last 2 or 3 MFS partition sets (I haven't done this, so can't say more than that it is theoretically possible)


I don't know that I really want that kind of a challenge... I just got a 160 GB drive. I know that switching to a bigger drive would work, but I want to keep my recordings on the TiVo.


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## kcarlile (Nov 6, 2005)

going to give it a shot with dd_rhelp. I've done it before, but this time I'll document it to share around here. Requires a USB drive and Knoppix CD. Hopefully nothing else, since I don't remember what I did...


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## kcarlile (Nov 6, 2005)

OK, here's the steps thus far:
1. Get a Knoppix CD.
2. Download dd_rhelp from here (Kalysto.org)
3. Put it on a USB drive. 
4. Hook up your drives (old/new) in the usual fashion; I did the old to primary master, new to primary slave, because stretching the IDE cable between the DVD drive and the HD drive bays always gives me fits...
5. Boot the computer from the Knoppix disk (MAKE SURE YOU DISCONNECT YOUR WINDOWS DRIVE FIRST!!!)
6. In Knoppix, untar dd_rhelp (tar xvzf dd_rhelp.tar.gz) from the command line (terminal in the lower left hand corner of the screen)
7. copy the resulting dd_rhelp file to /bin/ (sudo cp /path/to/wherever/it/is /bin/); don't forget the trailing slash!
8. type which ddr_help to make sure it's looking in the right place; it should come back with /bin/dd_rhelp
9. sudo ddr_help /dev/hda /dev/hdb (in my case, make sure you've got the hd* letters right before you start, otherwise it's curtains for your data!)
10. Wait and pray.


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## HomeUser (Jan 12, 2003)

Thanks I never have used dd_rhelp looks like a nice shell for dd_rescue I'll check it out and add it to my TiVo tool kit.

JFWIW (you probably already know this) The copy will go a lot faster if you put the drives on separate cables and verify that DMA is enabled. IDE is mono direction Drive1 ->IDE-> CPU/ram ->IDE-> drive2. Having 2 IDE channels will almost double the transfer speed and getting the CPU out of the equation with DMA speeds up the transfer even more.

Oh and you forgot 
cross your fingers, turn around 3 times CCW on left foot then watch Live TV and complain about it a lot


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## kcarlile (Nov 6, 2005)

Heh... oops. I did not know that, although I should have. It's sitting at work, running overnight, hopefully. 

I have already performed my routine:

1. Damn, the TiVo's dead again.
2. I will now reboot it in the futile hope it will work. Damn.
3. I will now furiously poke manufacturer codes at it. 
4. I will now wait 24 hours.
5. During that 24 hours, I will scour ebay for dirt cheap TiVos with lifetime subscriptions, bum around weaknees, briefly contemplate MythTV, look at TiVo for loopholes that will allow me to get a Tivo for nothing.
6. Then I will bemoan the fact that we've lost everything and it will cost a fortune to watch TV again. 
7. Then I'll try the manufacturer codes. 
8. Rinse, repeat.


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## kcarlile (Nov 6, 2005)

OK, dd_rhelp stopped sometime in the middle of the night, so I plopped the new drive back into the TiVo with the old B drive (without making a backup of the B drive... you know where this is going). It went to the green screen pretty quickly (first time I've seen this), which I kind of expected. Here's my concern. If the copy didn't complete (substantially), and the TiVo rebuilds itself with the green screen, do I lose all the programs, including the B drive? If it doesn't complete successfully, but I'm able to get a good copy of the old A drive to the new A drive, will the B drive still work?


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## HomeUser (Jan 12, 2003)

you really need to dd_rescue to complete before re-indexing the drives in the TiVo. You need all the partitions for the recovery routines to work correctly.

Looking at the instructions dd_rhelp is suposed to be able to start where it left off.


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## kcarlile (Nov 6, 2005)

So I should unplug the TiVo and try another re-image? I'm nervous about killing it in the middle of a green screen.


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## kcarlile (Nov 6, 2005)

Yup, it killed almost all of my recordings. They're still listed, but nothing's there. Do you think i can try it again, or is it gone?


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## HomeUser (Jan 12, 2003)

Sure try again what have you got to loose. *Make the small truncated backup* image from the currently working drives first. Then if the re-copy does not work you can go to the single drive configuration.


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## ciper (Nov 4, 2004)

Put it out of its misery and start fresh. You will be happier in the end. I lost 400gb of recordings about 10 days ago. I too was trying to recover using backups/copies/GSOD/FSCK and eventually killed my A drive to the point it wont even spinup or detect on the computer.

Source a clean image and backup your var+etc directory from the old Tivo then throw the failing drive away.

I previously had every episode of Mythbusters, every episode of Good Eats, every episode of Iron chef and half the episodes of Enterprise.


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## kcarlile (Nov 6, 2005)

If I use the old/new A drive and the old B drive, and then do an mfslive A+B consolidation (losing recordings) to a new large A drive, do I also lose season passes, preferences, etc?


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## HomeUser (Jan 12, 2003)

The backup made to a file on a mounted FAT32 drive backup -f 9999 -qso - /dev/hd? /dev/hd? /mnt/fat32/MyTiVo.bak Should keep the settings, season passes and wish lists. your recordings will still appear in the index when you restore the backup file image to the drive. You then need to manually purge them, they won't play anyway.

In the future if you want to double your chances sign up to KidZone or GuruGuides both have the side effect of backing up your information.


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## BTUx9 (Nov 13, 2003)

kcarlile said:


> If I use the old/new A drive and the old B drive, and then do an mfslive A+B consolidation (losing recordings) to a new large A drive, do I also lose season passes, preferences, etc?


no, just recordings... you should have done a backup like that BEFORE playing around with these thing, BTW


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## kcarlile (Nov 6, 2005)

Playing around with these things, as you say, was trying to recover from a bad drive. I have an older backup from about a year or two ago somewhere around here. Getting the backup of the screwed up drive seems to have done no good--the bad block's in the OS. So I used the semi-recovered drive+B, which boots fine itself, but the restored, new drive didn't work. Gaaaaaah. I'll try the old backup image.


From 2003.


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## ciper (Nov 4, 2004)

If you can get the system to boot with the "bad" copy perhaps you could use TivoWebPlus to save a backup of your season passes before starting fresh?


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## BTUx9 (Nov 13, 2003)

ciper said:


> If you can get the system to boot with the "bad" copy perhaps you could use TivoWebPlus to save a backup of your season passes before starting fresh?


keeping in mind that you can't RESTORE SP backups on s/w versions 6.3 or >8.1 (not 100% sure when they added the extra field in 8.x)... problem is that it WILL restore, but it'll break the tivo (at least temporarily... just like creating SPs with older TWPs).


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## PortlandPaw (Jan 11, 2004)

You may be too far gone to want to try this with your old drives, but I had the exact same problem with my S1 SA a few years ago. Twice in one month, my TiVo rebooted every four minutes. After replacing the drives and power supply, I discovered that it needed to run a Clear and Delete which would clear all the corrupted guide information, but not the recorded programs. A daily call was then required to reload everything -- a total of about four hours. So I wrote a routine into hackman that checks the boot frequency and if the box has rebooted more than five times in the past hour, it will initiate a Clear and Delete followed by a Daily Call. 

I was criticized for treating the symptoms but not the disease, but since I didn't know how to cure the disease, this fix worked for me. Still does, by the way, as it still happens now and then.


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## kcarlile (Nov 6, 2005)

Yup, I'm going with a single, 320 GB drive (on sale this week!), once I actually get over to Compusa to exchange drives... 

I've confirmed that the image from 2003 works (it's upgrading right now, I just want to make sure that goes through), but obviously it's got screwy season passes and preferences (it's still recording Mash instead of Good Eats on recommendations...) Is that /var/whatever it was where TiVo stores this stuff, and can I transfer it from the semi-working dual drive setup to the new single drive setup to recover the modern (2007) settings?


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