# Game over :-(



## Furball (Dec 6, 2001)

Looks like thats it folks

Two TiVo's I know in different parts of the country now get number not answered when I try to call in :down:

Ah well it was good while it lasted 

altEPG here we come :up:

Furball


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## healeydave (Jun 4, 2003)

Furball said:


> Looks like thats it folks


Yep, "That's all folks...." as Porky Pig used to say 

The only thing missing is it wasn't a Friday ;-)


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

A Sad day....


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

But can a networked Tivo still access the data?

As this route is unofficial perhaps they don't know about it?

Automan.


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## worm (Feb 10, 2005)

my networked machine can't, but my network seems to be playing up, so it may not be connected


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

The error message says "Number Not Answering" - but it seems to be the network connection that is no longer working as the number is answered.


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## BobBlueUK (Jan 4, 2002)

My networked TiVo just completed a forced daily call just fine @ 22:45, with guide data now running to Sun 3rd July. The previous daily call at 11:25 this morning had guide data to Sat 2nd July.

If updates by phone have stopped working though, I'm sure it's only a matter of time before network updates meet the same fate...


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## LarryDavid (Jan 4, 2007)

Would adding a dial-up prefix for a dial up access provider such as this one not work?

http://www.free-dialup.net/

Don't recall if the TiVo tries to contact an IP on a reserved internal range or a public IP ....


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Yes, you can use that - but its a little more complicated than just changing the number in the GUI.

All those 0844/0845 internet services use authenticated PPP (PAP)
Tivo uses unauthenticated ppp by default - to change it you also need to edit some files on the tivo filesytem.


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## Steve_K (May 5, 2001)

They certainly got up early to turn off the switch. Mine failed at 6.55am

A sad day but the sun will still rise tomorrow






won't it?


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## velocitysurfer1 (Sep 6, 2006)

My networked TiVo had a successful daily call on Monday at 23:38


Here's hoping it continues......


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## LarryDavid (Jan 4, 2007)

mikerr said:


> Yes, you can use that - but its a little more complicated than just changing the number in the GUI.
> 
> All those 0844/0845 internet services use authenticated PPP (PAP)
> Tivo uses unauthenticated ppp by default - to change it you also need to edit some files on the tivo filesytem.


Arse. Thats it then. Jealous of networked users now ....


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## vassilis (Apr 28, 2002)

My networked Tivo completed its call at 6:21am this morning and now it has data until the 3rd of July. They may leave the network route on ... we will see


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## velocitysurfer1 (Sep 6, 2006)

According to davehealey over on tivoland yesterday was "d day", with dial up being turned off.

I assume it's only a matter of time before the networked option finally "dies".


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## michael401 (May 20, 2011)

Read this and nipped in and got a network download at 08:04. Phew!


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## drgeoff (Nov 10, 2005)

As I type this, my networked TiVo is at "Loading data. 14%" after a call attempt.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

My networked Tivo is saying....
Last Successful Call: Tuesday 14th Jun at 01:32
Prog. Guide Data to: Sunday 3rd Jul 2011

I wonder who got the last as in final successful call?

I'll give it a week and move it over to the http://www.altepg.com/index.html

Goodbye Tivo Inc!


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## Fred Smith (Oct 5, 2002)

My lifetime networked Tivo is saying....
Last Successful Call: Tuesday 14th Jun at 03:40
Prog. Guide Data to: Monday 4th Jul 2011


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## digitaria (Aug 7, 2002)

Lifetime networked TiVo.
Successful call Tuesday 14th Jun 08:57
Guide data to Sunday 3rd Jul 2011 :up:


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## Trinitron (Jan 20, 2003)

This is a bit ironic. Unmodded boxes can no longer get the service, but those who have breached the service agreement by networking their TiVos can!


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

If the network call still works, then the alternative numbers may still work (UUNET):

0845 0885336 
0800 2795740 
0845 0810054 
0808 1050026

http://www.tivocentral.co.uk/tivo-phone-numbers.php

Cachecard and turnonet network cards have never existed "officially", so they have no need to turn them off,
though it will undoubtedly be switched off at some point - depending on the use of that server and the data feed.

The service is officially OFF when the supported methods are no longer possible (official dialup stops).


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## LarryDavid (Jan 4, 2007)

Perhaps we will see a surprise introduction of Virgin Media flogging network upgrade cards for S1's lol


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## michael401 (May 20, 2011)

Trinitron said:


> This is a bit ironic. Unmodded boxes can no longer get the service, but those who have breached the service agreement by networking their TiVos can!


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Thanks for all the fish.


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## GarySargent (Oct 27, 2000)

Anyone tried setting their dial prefix to: 08450885336 ?


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

GarySargent said:


> Anyone tried setting their dial prefix to: 08450885336 ?


That is still working it seems.


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## LarryDavid (Jan 4, 2007)

Have they deliberately left the local call rate numbers going? I wonder ...... I suppose we will never get any official confirmation either way, so fingers crossed it is ......

Anyone tried the 0800/0808 ones? I'd wager they have been shut off ...


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

No final goodbye message from the Tivo service?

Just imagine all the polite or impolite messages they could have posted 

Automan


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

Another download has just happenen via dial-up using *08450885336*


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## DX30 (May 22, 2005)

LarryDavid said:


> Have they deliberately left the local call rate numbers going?


If you google those numbers they come up as also being used by other companies, so shutting them off may be trickier than with the freephone number. If the intention is to eventually shutdown the servers anyway they may just be leaving those dialup numbers alone.


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## Steve_K (May 5, 2001)

Got to be a good chance they'll not turn off the network access and even though I don't have it I very much hope they don't. 

As an unofficial service, it arguably does not conflict with any agreement with Virgin. Assuming the core data is common with Virgin TiVo then it could well cost very little to run.

Next step for me is try the local call dial up - good spot that Gary


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## LarryDavid (Jan 4, 2007)

Just tried them all and only got a result from 0845 0885336	although YMMV I suppose. Anyone else try the others?


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## LarryDavid (Jan 4, 2007)

Also, should we put this info around the rest of the 'followers' (i.e. Facebook, Twitter) or should we keep it 'low key' to perhaps increase the chance of it not being 'killed off' anytime too soon?

Opinions?


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## michael401 (May 20, 2011)

Personally I'd keep quiet. 

Someone on the other forum has just posted "My network call now seems to consistently fail with 'Call Interrupted'."


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## zapped (Jul 4, 2002)

OzSat said:


> That is still working it seems.


Good stuff! I just updated my TiVo with the prefix and it seems to be working! Thanks for keeping us updated on this stuff guys!

What's involved in the AltEPG stuff? I see that I need to update the hard drive, do I also need to install a network card too?


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

I think you just need to register with them and then change the dial prefix.


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## drgeoff (Nov 10, 2005)

zapped said:


> Good stuff! I just updated my TiVo with the prefix and it seems to be working! Thanks for keeping us updated on this stuff guys!
> 
> What's involved in the AltEPG stuff? I see that I need to update the hard drive, do I also need to install a network card too?


If the TiVo is within spitting distance of a networked PC, I recommend the serial cable method described here. See the post by Rachel for the hardware and the post by millsb on 5 June for link to the software.

Costs only a few pounds but just as effective as a network card and might also save you a small fortune in phone calls to the AltEPG number.


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## digital_S (May 15, 2002)

Whilst I currently only have dial-up available, sorry if this has been mentioned here or in the tivoland forum, but what are the prices like for the initial alt-epg call and then every day/night, like?

Considering it's an 01274 or 0845 number...

(Would prefer a serial cable, but my pc is all the way upstairs, plus I dont use it much (use a laptop) and they wouldnt be left on anyway)


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## LarryDavid (Jan 4, 2007)

I am also mulling over options for this, as I'm a tightwad and the 0845 number isn't covered by my 'unlimited' phone calls package (10.11p connection and 6.13ppm) .

The serial route is interesting, as I have a couple of old (PIII 600Mhz old) laptops with serial and ethernet (and built in V90 modem if needs be!) lying around which could be harnessed as a 'gateway'. The convenience being that they are small enough to set up and just dump behind or next to the TV with the lid shut and forget about them.

The next step of course would be looking at an open-source hackable router (like one of the Linksys jobbies) with a serial port ..... I'll leave that to someone with more time and inclination though


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

If the pc data source means leaving a computer on all year in the long run a network card may pay for itself in electric. Change of phone call plan may also be cheaper.

Automan.


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## spitfires (Dec 19, 2006)

An 01x number was chosen as the preferred dial-up number since most people have it in inclusive call packages (whereas an 0845 number would be excluded). If you're not on an inclusive call package then you will need to check the rate from your phone company since they are all different! BT charge up to 2p/min for 0845 and up to 7.6p/min for 01x (both are cheaper at weekends). Watch out for that insidious 'connection charge' for each call you make though!

The initial calls will take about 30 minutes. A Daily Call will take less than 5 minutes. Pete worked out the 'worst case' annual cost to be about £80 a year in call costs. i.e. still significantly less than the £120 a year we were paying to TiVo.


p.s. you should really be discussing this on the tivoland forum not on here.


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## michael401 (May 20, 2011)

Automan said:


> If the pc data source means leaving a computer on all year in the long run a network card may pay for itself in electric.


Yes the minimum an old PC with a hard disc will draw will be about 60w. If it was on 24/7 then it would cost about 25p a day (= £90 a year).


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## LarryDavid (Jan 4, 2007)

spitfires said:


> p.s. you should really be discussing this on the tivoland forum not on here.


Well I was talking about the official service continuing on the 0845 number, so I plead the 5th


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## LarryDavid (Jan 4, 2007)

Automan said:


> If the pc data source means leaving a computer on all year in the long run a network card may pay for itself in electric. Change of phone call plan may also be cheaper.
> 
> Automan.


Does anyone offer 0845 as inclusive? It just sounded like an interesting/fun bit of work to do tbh. My unix/linux skills are somewhat rusty these days and it would be a good kick-start at re-learning some of it (or at least get me interested again).

As people have argued, the electric cost vs the call cost vs not bothering at all means that ultimately the most likely scenario is that I'll be over to SKY+ exclusively and the TiVo will be mothballed (or sold). I had vague plans to pair it up with my old SKY SD box to keep it as an alternate recording possibility, as I liked the idea of the fun hacking that could be done with it (with or without the AltEPG image).

However as with most of my 'must do that one day' projects its likely that none of this would come to pass!


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## velocitysurfer1 (Sep 6, 2006)

Talktalk has 0845 numbers inclusive at evening and weekends as part of their standard package.


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## LarryDavid (Jan 4, 2007)

velocitysurfer1 said:


> Talktalk has 0845 numbers inclusive at evening and weekends as part of their standard package.


SKY bloody don't. Bar-stewards.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

I have the BT anytime deal which includes 0845

Automan.


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## Trinitron (Jan 20, 2003)

velocitysurfer1 said:


> Talktalk has 0845 numbers inclusive at evening and weekends as part of their standard package.


Most providers will block known 'internet dialup' lines from their free packages. Dunno whether this applies to the TiVo 0845 no, as I have Sky as well. 

As UUNet are now part of TalkTalk you would think they know about the number...


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## LarryDavid (Jan 4, 2007)

One possibility might be onetel (talk talk phone provider). I've been signed up to that for years, long before TT bought it. It doesn't cost anything other than the cost of the calls you make and is free to sign up to. I believe there are a number of these about now.

Their 0845 rates are only 1.53p off peak plus 12.5p connection charge.

You access that via an access number which I know still works.

You are supposed to use a # to signify the end of your number dial which >may< be a problem, but iirc it doesn't necessarily need that, it just waits for a bit and then assumes that you've finished dialling!

I might give that a bash tonight and report back.



> Most providers will block known 'internet dialup' lines from their free packages. Dunno whether this applies to the TiVo 0845 no, as I have Sky as well.
> 
> As UUNet are now part of TalkTalk you would think they know about the number...


0845 isn't the 'official' designation for ISP access I don't think, so I would hazard a guess that 0845 plans should cover this number too. YMMV of course.


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## Trinitron (Jan 20, 2003)

The problem with OneTel and other indirect providers is that they often plug into spare telco capacity, wherever they can find it. So one day you will get a solid connection, the next some flaky Voip job sent halfway across Europe that can't handle data very well.

But definitely worth a try.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

FWIW at least one member has reported the altepg 0845 number to be included in his TalkTalk anytime plan,
but AFAIK there's no way to confirm other than checking your bill after the call, as he did.

As for the switch off -

I guess we have to wait until the data runs out now to find out how many really still use their tivos.

Altepg has 800ish users, but many will stick with the standard epg until data runs out,
either by choice or ignorance of altepg existing, or even not realising the switch off applies to them.

Many people will ignore messages until the tivo stops working.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

LarryDavid said:


> As people have argued, the electric cost vs the call cost vs not bothering at all means that ultimately the most likely scenario is that I'll be over to SKY+ exclusively and the TiVo will be mothballed (or sold). I had vague plans to pair it up with my old SKY SD box to keep it as an alternate recording possibility, as I liked the idea of the fun hacking that could be done with it (with or without the AltEPG image).


If you can be bothered then you don't need to connect every day. I know the official service provided most data for the week on Sundays but as AltEPG has a different data provider it probably works differently.
If it were me I would change the dial prefix and forget about it but you could always connect the phone line every few days to save the pennies on connection charges...

BTW my Networked machine just did this...

The following daily call information is available: 
Last successful call: Wed, 15 Jun at 01:39 
Next scheduled call: Thu, 16 Jun at 01:42 
Guide data exists through: Mon, 04 Jul 2011


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## Steve_K (May 5, 2001)

drgeoff said:


> If the TiVo is within spitting distance of a networked PC, I recommend the serial cable method described here. See the post by Rachel for the hardware and the post by millsb on 5 June for link to the software.
> 
> Costs only a few pounds but just as effective as a network card and might also save you a small fortune in phone calls to the AltEPG number.


:up: Thanks, wasn't aware of that

That link isn't the only good material over there. A lot of very well written advice.

For now though I'll stick with the TiVo 0845 (is that alt alt EPG?) which probably means it'll stop tonight. Was very good yesterday though. EPG data to July 5th


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## Benedict (Jun 8, 2002)

Steve_K said:


> Got to be a good chance they'll not turn off the network access and even though I don't have it I very much hope they don't.
> 
> As an unofficial service, it arguably does not conflict with any agreement with Virgin. Assuming the core data is common with Virgin TiVo then it could well cost very little to run.


The core data is not common though, even if large parts of it similar. Channel numbers, channel line-up changes, additions/deletions of channels etc. that are specific to Sky and Freeview will be completely different for Virgin. Many Freeview channels (that start/finish broadcasting later/earlier than their Virgin eqivalent) have a completely different Freeview callsign in the TiVo database.

e.g. If Sky or Freeview re-numbered all of their channels tomorrow, why would TiVo/Tribune bother reflecting these changes in their data as it doesn't impact on their Virgin customer base one bit?

It's going to end at some point folks, it just feels like it may be dismantled bit by bit rather than a big switch-off.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

*The official number is off - so the service is now officially dead.*

Just because there may still be unofficial back doors into it, either by hardware(cachecards) or by other phone numbers, doesn't alter that fact.

Heavy speculation:

1) TiVo still get tribune data for the UK in order to provide it to VM
2) This data is held in one database and there's scripts to produce S1 Thomson data and VM data from that.

If the above is true, then providing they don't disable the S1 script network/ alternative phone number users could stay on.
Big assumptions though.


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## LarryDavid (Jan 4, 2007)

If its possible to do that, and indeed that's what happens, you'd have to wonder why they didn't save themselves a lot of face and announce a change to a local rate number everyone can use should they so wish?

Just thinking out loud, lets not start going round in circles about what's legal and what isn't contractually viable etc. etc. again!


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## PhilG (Jan 15, 2002)

mikerr said:


> *The official number is off - so the service is now officially dead.*


Well....

Given that you cannot get data for a Tivo unless said Tivo is REGISTERED and has an appropriate account status, it's certainly not (quite) dead yet

So long as Tivo keep acknowledging my serial number is in the "ok" list, things can keep on for a while longer yet

I guess at some point they'll stop providing data (or they could terminate all our accounts) but it certainly doesn't feel like death yet


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Asides from whether they physically bar access, the thing to look for is a line up change on Sky or Freeview - Tribune no longer have any need to put those through, unless there are other customers for the data and the TiVo feed is simply automated.

Are channels which are not on VM still being updated?


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## michael401 (May 20, 2011)

I thought I read on one of the forums that Sky channels for NI had disappeared - because VM don't have any customers in NI was the suggested reason. 

Or maybe I dreamt that!


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## alek (May 22, 2008)

michael401 said:


> I thought I read on one of the forums that Sky channels for NI had disappeared - because VM don't have any customers in NI was the suggested reason.
> 
> Or maybe I dreamt that!


I am pretty sure vm cable is available in Belfast.

Not absolutely sure mind.

Alek


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## sjp (Oct 22, 2001)

Automan said:


> I have the BT anytime deal which includes 0845
> 
> Automan.


iirc, when we had to use a different number a few months back that 0845 was sniffed out as being a data call and I remember getting charged.

i am thinking it'll be a little perverse to call an 0845 number from my new Virgin phone line to get S1 data but I'm thinking I'll give it a go this Sunday if it's still working 

ETA - been covered, should have read the rest of the thread, just awake - leave me alone


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

sjp said:


> iirc, when we had to use a different number a few months back that 0845 was sniffed out as being a data call and I remember getting charged.
> 
> i am thinking it'll be a little perverse to call an 0845 number from my new Virgin phone line to get S1 data but I'm thinking I'll give it a go this Sunday if it's still working


I did not realise that..

I thought when they said 0845 calls were free it meant they were free....

However



> If you're on the Unlimited Weekend Plan, these calls will be inclusive at the weekends, if you're on the Unlimited Evening and Weekend Plan, they're included evenings and weekends and if you're on the Unlimited Anytime Plan, they're inclusive 24/7. *This doesn't include dial-up internet calls to ISPs or indirect access numbers.*


http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/12732/kw/

Automan.


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

Another days worth on 0845 from TiVo now available


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## sjp (Oct 22, 2001)

Automan said:


> I did not realise that..
> 
> I thought when they said 0845 calls were free it meant they were free....
> 
> ...


well, i'm a jock and i noticed the pennies difference in my bills. you southerners must have shillings to throw away


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## BrianHughes (Jan 21, 2001)

alek said:


> I am pretty sure vm cable is available in Belfast.
> 
> Not absolutely sure mind.
> 
> Alek


Yes definitely available here. My mother in law has it.


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## Steve_K (May 5, 2001)

TCM2007 said:


> Asides from whether they physically bar access, the thing to look for is a line up change on Sky or Freeview - Tribune no longer have any need to put those through, unless there are other customers for the data and the TiVo feed is simply automated. . . .


Good point and of course not good news.

Re LarryDavid's point, I wonder how many of us would have objected if they'd said "look we can't afford it as is anymore but we are prepared to keep the service going if you pay the local rate phone calls"

Got to say I probably wouldn't have. Might have moaned a bit under my breath.


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## LarryDavid (Jan 4, 2007)

Just for the record using the onetel access number prior to the 0845 number (with 2 pauses inbetween) seems to work OK.

I'll keep an eye on the itemised bills from onetel to check the pricing, can't be more than SKY though.


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## szpoog (Feb 24, 2006)

08450885336 as a prefix worked for me tonight, and it showed up as a free call with my phone provider Eclipse.net.
Thanks everyone for the information, fingers crossed that it lasts.


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

A successful TiVo call in the last 12 hours or so should say "Guide Data To: Wednesday 6 July 2011" and for many channels (not BBC/ITV/C4/5) should have full listings for 5 July.

My SkyOne has RoadWars at 12am on 6th July.


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## warrenrb (Jul 21, 2002)

FYI, I'm watching VM TiVo in Belfast as I type!


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## velocitysurfer1 (Sep 6, 2006)

Just forced a daily call about an hour ago...

Had the new mail icon, and I thought here we go.... but it was a line up change about channel 642 (on Sky)!!!


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## michael401 (May 20, 2011)

warrenrb said:


> FYI, I'm watching VM TiVo in Belfast as I type!


 
Just ignore my earlier post then - I must have imagined it!


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## pj280167 (Dec 21, 2005)

I've just added the dial prefix

08450885336

to my TiVo and I'm getting 

(Failed.Number not answering )

Anyone else with the same problem ?

pj


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## mutant_matt2 (Dec 16, 2008)

Yep, me too. I've just this minute tried that number, and was about the post the same question, as I have the same problem. Looking at the tclient.log, it is actually answering, negotiating the logon, then I get lots of Waiting for PPP - 1 (/10), then it gives up. This is exactly what happens on the original 0808 number, so it looks like they are turning off the responses, via the various access numbers, one by one.

Tivo reports Failed - Number not answering, which is a simplified version of events.

We'll have to try the 0207 number Peter mentioned (or one of the other 0845 numbers I saw a list of in one of these posts).

Cheers,

Matt.


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## velocitysurfer1 (Sep 6, 2006)

according to a thread on tivoland, the 0845 number may not be live 24/7 - so only providing an intermittent response


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## cjanderson (Nov 16, 2002)

i managed to use the 0845 number about 30 mins ago, to do a new guided set up. So its working now.


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## pj280167 (Dec 21, 2005)

cjanderson said:


> i managed to use the 0845 number about 30 mins ago, to do a new guided set up. So its working now.


Thanks for the update.. I've just tried again and although TiVo connected and said it downloaded, the programme guide data still only shows until 3 July which I'm fairly sure is what is was before the call was made...

Does anyone else have data from Tribune to after 3 July ?


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## LarryDavid (Jan 4, 2007)

Mine dialled last night at 9:30pm and has guide data to 9th July


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## sjp (Oct 22, 2001)

+1 at 9 this morning.


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## bigwheeler (Jan 30, 2011)

I have left my tivo on dial up to the official Tivo number last week and had called failed since last monday. Yesterday (sat) when my tivo called its normal dial up it crashed! So I rebooted it and pulled the phone plug.
Today when I switched tivo onI got a message with a new channel line up, so I checked the channel data and I now have listings until 9 july
I have tried to do a forced daily call seems to download ok but dosen't hang up?

Anyone else had this


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## pj280167 (Dec 21, 2005)

pj280167 said:


> Thanks for the update.. I've just tried again and although TiVo connected and said it downloaded, the programme guide data still only shows until 3 July which I'm fairly sure is what is was before the call was made...
> 
> Does anyone else have data from Tribune to after 3 July ?


After waiting for 30 mins and then trying again and failing for the guide to be updated I've migrated to altEpg . The migration wasn't entirely straightforward but there's a lot of help available on the forum.

Thanks everyone, I'll keep my eye on how you get on with TiVo inc..


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## Steve_K (May 5, 2001)

Like Larry and sjp I have data to July 9th


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## dvdfever (Jun 2, 2002)

Steve_K said:


> Like Larry and sjp I have data to July 9th


And myself, too.


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## philredman (Dec 13, 2001)

After update last night on the 0845 number, I have data until 10th July.


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## sjp (Oct 22, 2001)

will I do another dialup this Sunday? 

hmm, let me check my bill... 22 minute 10 second call (for a full weeks worth though)- £2.06 call charge.

maybe not then


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## LarryDavid (Jan 4, 2007)

Well we are nearly a month in and the service seems to continue (all be it through a back door). Has anyone seen or heard any 'official' TiVo noise on this?


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