# Did 9.1 Screw Up Your "30 Second Skip" and "Instant Replay"?



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Trying to get a feel for how many folks this new update has affected. My "30 Second Skip" and "Instant Replay" both lag far behind the button presses now, making it impossible to accurately navigate past commercial and/or find the beginning of the show again. Not sure but it seems to happen on HD content more than older recordings I have in NON HD format. Let's try and narrow down the problem and see if we can help TiVo fix this annoyance. 

If any one hears anything from TiVo or knows of a fix post it here. I consider this a huge problem as it affects the day to day usage. The navigation was what set this machine apart from the Comcast DVR with it's sluggish response. Hopefully a fix is on the way. 


If this doesn't happen to your TiVo please mention if you have tried it on a NEW HD RECORDING. Also let's see if this has anything to do with platform. Do you have an S3 or a new TiVo HD?


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

I used it all last night, I didn't notice anything different it it's behavior.


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## crowfan (Dec 27, 2003)

You might want to check in the 9.1 Bugs thread (over in Coffee House):

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5566313#post5566313


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

> Did 9.1 Screw Up Your "30 Second Skip" and "Instant Replay"?


Yes, it does. It doesn't occur 100% of the time, but it is frequent. I never saw this issue under 8.1.x.

I find it most obvious / irritating when watching football. Normally, I watch football on a time delay and FFW pass the commercials. Now, much of the time the DVR pauses for a 1/2 second before it skips back when you press play, which means you see the result of the play (i.e. the down and yards to go, or changes to the score) before you've watched it.

Something similar happens on 30sec skip and instant replay.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

bkdtv said:


> Yes, it does. It doesn't occur 100% of the time, but it is frequent. I never saw this issue under 8.1.x.
> 
> I find it most obvious / irritating when watching football. Normally, I watch football on a time delay and FFW pass the commercials. Now, much of the time the DVR pauses for a 1/2 second when you press play, which means you see the result of the play (i.e. the down and yards to go, or changes to the score) before you've watched it.


You just nailed one of the most frustrating things about this new "feature". I sure hope the conspiracy theorists aren't correct about this "fix" in that it's to appease the broadcasters and force us to go more slowly so we HAVE to see more of the commercials. If true, they obviously forgot about the "tiny little percentage" of us who also use it for Sports... Man this sucks. I hope to God it wasn't intentional.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

SeanC said:


> I used it all last night, I didn't notice anything different it it's behavior.


Do you have an S3 or a new TiVo HD? Did you check it on a new HD recording? I had no glitches on an old Mythbusters in SD, but it does it on all of my new HD recordings.


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## Dajad (Oct 7, 1999)

Your question is a bit misleading. EVERY time I get a system update of some kind (or the system is reset) the 30 second skip back-door has to be added back:

Select
Play
Select
3
0
Select

So, as with every other update I lost it until I added it back.

I've NEVER lost instant replay as that is a built-in TiVo function.

...Dale


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Dajad said:


> Your question is a bit misleading. EVERY time I get a system update of some kind (or the system is reset) the 30 second skip back-door has to be added back:
> 
> Select
> Play
> ...


Hey Dajad.
This isn't about LOSING 30 second skip and in fact, I've read the new update makes it permanent once you re-enable it. Which is GREAT. However. In my HD recordings it has made the image on the screen freeze and then lag far behind the button presses.

You basically see a static image on the screen while you are button pressing so you can't see where you are going or where you have been.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

The new behavior makes it more difficult to use under slingbox where there is already 5 second delay from mpg encoding overhead.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Just to make sure that we don't find that Tivo "has never heard of the problem" I have created a new post on the TiVo Inc. forum at their website: Click here to report navigation bug to TIVo help forum


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

This is actually a better place to report it. There is also research.tivo.com/suggestions where you can suggest they fix it.

By the way, is your poll restricted to S3 platforms, or can S2 users also vote?


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## Saturn (Apr 10, 2001)

Ok, I just tried it and I'm not sure I would've noticed it without looking for it, but here's my analysis:

1. Playing a video, hit 30 second skip or instant replay.
2. TiVo starts playing the be-boop sound.
3. Video pauses ever so slightly on the current frame
4. Video skips forward or backward as appropriate.

I think the reason this may seem more apparent on HD is that the be-boop sound can't be played over dolby digital feeds, so the video pause is more noticable.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

For those who answered "no" try the following. Hit 30-sec skip in quick succession multiple times. For me this basically freezes the video frame until I slow down presses. In 8.3 I could easily do more than 1 press per second and still see updated video frames. In 9.1 now I have to wait about a second or so between presses to get video updates.
(The problem is worse on HD playback than SD playback, but SD also is slower than before).

As already mentioned this makes it much more cumbersome to skip commercials using 30SS and skip back - you are forced to watch more pieces of commercials (maybe that was Tivo's intent  )


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Saturn said:


> Ok, I just tried it and I'm not sure I would've noticed it without looking for it, but here's my analysis:
> 
> 1. Playing a video, hit 30 second skip or instant replay.
> 2. TiVo starts playing the be-boop sound.
> ...


It only happens when you are attempting to "skip ahead" or do "instant replay" with multiple button presses in rapid succession. When you do this, the SAME IMAGE will stay on the screen perpetually until you stop pressing the button long enough for TiVo to "catch up". Try doing it this way and you will see what we mean.


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## Saturn (Apr 10, 2001)

bareyb said:


> It only happens when you are attempting to "skip ahead" or do "instant replay" with multiple button presses in rapid succession. When you do this, the SAME IMAGE will stay on the screen perpetually until you stop pressing the button long enough for TiVo to "catch up". Try doing it this way and you will see what we mean.


Well, actually it freezes the video on the first attempt, but it is barely noticable. If you hit the button again while it is frozen, it stays frozen on that same frame.


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## Saturn (Apr 10, 2001)

I highly doubt this was intentional. I suspect it was a result of fixing the problem where you hit 30 second skip and the video plays but the audio has dropped out. I don't know for sure that problem is fixed, but it wouldn't surprise me.


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## Dajad (Oct 7, 1999)

bareyb said:


> Hey Dajad.
> This isn't about LOSING 30 second skip and in fact, I've read the new update makes it permanent once you re-enable it. Which is GREAT. However. In my HD recordings it has made the image on the screen freeze and then lag far behind the button presses.
> 
> You basically see a static image on the screen while you are button pressing so you can't see where you are going or where you have been.


My sincere apologies Barry! For some reason I answered the question without paying attention to who wrote it. I thought it was a newb question. Had I noticed it was you I wouldn't have given a simplistic answer and would have taken your comment more seriously.

Since my initial reply I too experienced EXACTLY the same instant replay problem with my HD recordings last night - but not with the 30 second skip. Also the instnat replay issue was intermittent. Sometimes instant replay worked fine, other times it acted just as you described, you press instant replay and it does NOTHING, press it over and over and you keep seeing the same thing over and over - like an invistible temporal wall it can't back up behind. But other times, even in the same recording, instant replay worked just fine.

And the problem was NOT contingent on multiple pushes. Often times I'd push once and it hits the wall. Then, when it doesn't work I started multiple pushing and it stayed at the wall. So I don't think its purely a multiple push problem, but if/when it happens, multiple pushes clearly doesn't solve the problem.

Ugh!

So, if I could, I would change my answer in the poll from the second option to the first option. I only noticed it with HD recordings. I only watch HD recordings on that particular TiVo so I don't know about SD.

I have NOT noticed any problems with the 30 second skip though. Since I have my bee-boops turned off, I can't attest to how/when things happen relative to sound effects.

Great news about the 30 second skip staying on permanently. It's been a pain having to reset it all the time.

...Dale


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

I have noticed no change in the functionality of 30SS with 9.1. No lags, delays or whatever on SD or HD recordings.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> I have noticed no change in the functionality of 30SS with 9.1. No lags, delays or whatever on SD or HD recordings.


Do you have an S3 or one of the new HD TiVo's?


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## rodalpho (Sep 12, 2006)

9.1 screwed up my 30SS. It's more noticeable the more I use 9.1. Still pretty usable, don't get me wrong, but clearly worse than it was.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Dajad said:


> My sincere apologies Barry! For some reason I answered the question without paying attention to who wrote it. I thought it was a newb question. Had I noticed it was you I wouldn't have given a simplistic answer and would have taken your comment more seriously.
> 
> Since my initial reply I too experienced EXACTLY the same instant replay problem with my HD recordings last night - but not with the 30 second skip. Also the instnat replay issue was intermittent. Sometimes instant replay worked fine, other times it acted just as you described, you press instant replay and it does NOTHING, press it over and over and you keep seeing the same thing over and over - like an invistible temporal wall it can't back up behind. But other times, even in the same recording, instant replay worked just fine.
> 
> ...


No worries Dale. Just happy to see it's not just me. Mainly trying to get some feel for how widespread the problem is so hopefully TiVo Inc. will take notice and fix it. This is the first time I've had anything major change with an update that made life more difficult on my TiVo. I have faith that the TiVo engineers are having the same problems and will get a fix out soon. 

My navigation lags/glitches definitely seem to be connected to HD recordings. The SD recordings seem to be fine. So if anyone is trying to help troubleshoot, please try and HD channel and press the 30SS and Instant Replay buttons at varying speeds and see if the image on the screen changes with the button presses like it has in the past.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

I don't know how to answer the poll yet, as I've only tried it on HD so far. But it did mess it up there. It still skips back/forward just like before, but the image doesn't skip instantly at the same time. Very annoying.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

MickeS said:


> I don't know how to answer the poll yet, as I've only tried it on HD so far. But it did mess it up there. It still skips back/forward just like before, but the image doesn't skip instantly at the same time. Very annoying.


Bless you MikeS! Keep 'em coming folks. I'm feeling better about this every day. if it affects enough people then we'll likely get a fix. This is a pain in the ass. My button pressing speed is locked into my brain at this point, and this new development is seriously messing with my TiVo groove.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

moyekj said:


> For those who answered "no" try the following. Hit 30-sec skip in quick succession multiple times. For me this basically freezes the video frame until I slow down presses. In 8.3 I could easily do more than 1 press per second and still see updated video frames. In 9.1 now I have to wait about a second or so between presses to get video updates.
> (The problem is worse on HD playback than SD playback, but SD also is slower than before).
> 
> As already mentioned this makes it much more cumbersome to skip commercials using 30SS and skip back - you are forced to watch more pieces of commercials (maybe that was Tivo's intent  )


I did that last night with CSI and The Office. CSI on my Series 3 from the local OTA HD channel. And The Office on my TiVoHD from the FIOS local HD channel. It worked the same as before for me. I had no problems. Both boxes got the update on Wednesday Night.


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## sfm (Oct 3, 2006)

My experience (S3):

- with HD programs, the skip forward (30s) and skip backward buttons when pressed display the current frame until the skip is "finished" (the proper next/prev video frame is located I guess), then the playback resumes. Also seems a bit slower than it was before the update. Ahh... brings back fond memories of the Motorola 6412 (not)!

- with SD programs, same as before the update.


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## rodalpho (Sep 12, 2006)

Yep. TiVo has released buggy updates before, killing UI performance, breaking features, etc. But this is the first time they've actually damaged the core functionality of playing video. Not impressed with 9.1, not impressed at all.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

bareyb said:


> Do you have an S3 or one of the new HD TiVo's?


S3


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I haven't noticed it on instant replay, but I have definitely noticed it on 30 second skip. It is a minor irritant only, but I'd say it happens frequently and not occasionally. I might go back to using FF to skip commercials, assuming they've fixed the weird time shifting problems with that and some OTA signals.

It also has a substantial delay when I try to go to season pass manager.


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## TerpBE (Jan 23, 2003)

Badly worded question. Most people will probably think "No...my 30 second skip and instant replay still work." They probably won't realize that the question is asking whether or not they're seeing a slight delay when pressing either of the buttons repeatedly.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Bierboy said:


> I have noticed no change in the functionality of 30SS with 9.1. No lags, delays or whatever on SD or HD recordings.


 You're OTA only for HD channels right? If so maybe CableCard users are affected but OTA only are not... (I have OTA + CableCards but I believe my OTA HD recordings are also affected but I will double check).

Also, you did try the quick succession of pushes of 30SS and verified that for each push you are getting updated video frames? By quick succession I mean several pushes per second.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Mine only happens after I press it a few times quickly. Which was how I would skip commercials in the past. And then I'd end up having to hit replay 4 or so times. It's a very efficient method.


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## mchief (Sep 10, 2005)

I love the new update broke my ...

I got 9.1 last night and watched 2 previously recorded show without a problem. Tonight I will watch another 2 programs recorded after the update and I suspect nothing will be any different. 

I sometimes wonder if some folks spend a little too much time looking for something wrong.

Again in case anyone is asleep. 30SS worked without a freeze and IR also. No mather how quickly I pressed the button.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

TerpBE said:


> Badly worded question. Most people will probably think "No...my 30 second skip and instant replay still work." They probably won't realize that the question is asking whether or not they're seeing a slight delay when pressing either of the buttons repeatedly.


I totally agree but hindsight is 20/20... I wish I'd worded things differently and we'd probably get a better sampling of the problem. I have a bad feeling that some of the folks who are reporting that it "works fine" either don't know the difference (especially if they came from a Motorola DVR) or aren't testing it properly.

This is a major problem as far as I'm concerned. I agree with the previous poster who said that this is the first time an Update has actually made a major impact on the enjoyment of using TIVo. The navigation is about as bad as on my Comcast Box now. Which is very Un-Tivo like. The bummer is, that with so many folks reporting that "it's fine" or "the same as before" we aren't likely to get much attention. I'm a huge TiVo "Fanboy" and I'd never complain for no reason. I've always been the first to defend them. I imagine as the days progress the more experienced people will realize what has happened. I just hope TiVo Inc. is aware of this and is working on a fix.


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## Saturn (Apr 10, 2001)

bareyb said:


> I agree with the previous poster who said that this is the first time an Update has actually made a major impact on the enjoyment of using TIVo.


Then you either weren't around or forgot about version 2.0 that took out the 30 second skip backdoor entirely. 2.5 added it back in thankfully.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Saturn said:


> Then you either weren't around or forgot about version 2.0 that took out the 30 second skip backdoor entirely. 2.5 added it back in thankfully.


What series was that? I've had TiVo's since the Series 1 and I never lost 30 second skip. Ever. Of course I had DirecTiVo boxes for a few years too so that may have been the reason I never saw it. If I had I would've complained then too. So far (in my experience) this is the first time anything major has been "broken" that I could definitively blame on an update. Not sure why anyone would argue with me about this. Surely you want this fixed no?


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## Jay M (Sep 27, 2007)

bareyb said:


> I have a bad feeling that some of the folks who are reporting that it "works fine" either don't know the difference (especially if they came from a Motorola DVR) or aren't testing it properly.


I just came from a Motorola 6412. I am still affraid to push the skip button too fast ot too many times. In fact last night was the first time I actually tried to pust skip 8 times in rapid succession while watching Leno. It's amazing that you can blast through 4 minutes in less than 4 seconds.

I don't think I have the 9.1 update yet on my S3. Hopefully I won't get it until 9.2 is out 

~Jay


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## Saturn (Apr 10, 2001)

bareyb said:


> What series was that? I've had TiVo's since the Series 1 and I never lost 30 second skip. Ever. Of course I had DirecTiVo boxes for a few years too so that may have been the reason I never saw it. If I had I would've complained then too. So far (in my experience) this is the first time anything major has been "broken" that I could definitively blame on an update. Not sure why anyone would argue with me about this. Surely you want this fixed no?


Oh, I want this fixed, but it isn't the first time TiVo has broken something in an update. 

2.0 was for Series 1 SAs only, IIRC. I think the DirecTivo started at 2.5


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## jaredmwright (Sep 6, 2004)

I definitely notice a slight lag. After I press the 30sec skip, it takes a fraction of a second for the video to update. This slight delay causes me to have to wait and let the picture update before pressing it again so I do not overshoot my programming. 

Also, a side not that may or not be related since the 9.1 update. I have noticed stale video images. The first time I noticed it was when watching a TivoCast and finishing the program, if I go to watch another TiVoCast program I see a stale image (of the last program I watched) for a fraction of a second before the video changes to the current program I am watching. I can reproduce this as well over and over again by opening a TiVoCast wathing part it and then watching a different one. I will post this problem in a new post, but it all might be related.

TiVo has definitely done some major changes and it is affecting more than the 30 second skip and manual recordings. I hope TiVo is reading these forums and take note.


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## Dajad (Oct 7, 1999)

Saturn said:


> Then you either weren't around or forgot about version 2.0 that took out the 30 second skip backdoor entirely. 2.5 added it back in thankfully.


For me the biggest AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! I experienced with a TiVo upgrade was when they changed the sensitivity of the jump back after fast forwarding. They changed it from a twitchy-video game sensitivity to one suitable for the geriatric ward, where it has remained ever since. It still bugs the heck out of me today. So much so that I have moved from almost exclusive use of the ff to the 3 second skip button.

Funny, I never used the 30 second skip before it was taken away (does this sound like John Kerry  ), so I didn't miss it when it was gone for awhile. 

FYI... to knock Cablecard out as the problem, I live here in Canada where Cablecard doesn't exist (and likely never will). The problems I'm having are with OTA HD broadcasts originating from Buffalo and Niagra FAlls New York.

...Dale


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## rodalpho (Sep 12, 2006)

mchief said:


> 30SS worked without a freeze and IR also. No mather how quickly I pressed the button.


I believe it only happens with HD programming. SD works fine for me too.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Dajad said:


> For me the biggest AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! I experienced with a TiVo upgrade was when they changed the sensitivity of the jump back after fast forwarding. They changed it from a twitchy-video game sensitivity to one suitable for the geriatric ward, where it has remained ever since. It still bugs the heck out of me today. So much so that I have moved from almost exclusive use of the ff to the 3 second skip button.
> 
> Funny, I never used the 30 second skip before it was taken away (does this sound like John Kerry  ), so I didn't miss it when it was gone for awhile.
> 
> ...


Now THAT one I remember. I switched over to DirecTV and it bypassed the lost 30SS.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

rodalpho said:


> I believe it only happens with HD programming. SD works fine for me too.


I beginning to think this might be an HD recordings only problem. That may explain why some folks aren't seeing it. My Standard Def stuff seems to be working as before. It seems as though only my HD recordings have the image lag on 30SS and Instant Replay.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

bareyb said:


> I beginning to think this might be an HD recordings only problem. That may explain why some folks aren't seeing it. My Standard Def stuff seems to be working as before. It seems as though only my HD recordings have the image lag on 30SS and Instant Replay.


 Yes you are right. SD I can still 30SS very quickly and see frames, HD I can 30SS through an entire show on the 1st frame! I think the time between key presses needs to be something more than 0.5 secs in order to see frames where in 8.3 it was almost instantaneous. I could probably learn to live with it but it would take a lot of patience...


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

I don't think we'll have to learn to live with it. Remember the people who write the software for TiVo are also some of the most avid power users. There's no way they are gonna leave it the way it is now. Especially since it only seems to affect HD and works fine on SD. Customers would eventually figure out (and complain) that something was off with the the HD navigation simply by comparison. 

I suppose the proper thing to do would be to call TiVo and officially report it. I'm dreading the possibility of hearing "we have never heard of this problem before". That always dashes my hopes just a bit. At any rate, if anyone has the patience and time, it may not be a bad idea to call TiVo. Just so they know about the problem. 

If anyone hears any good news that they do indeed "know about the problem" and are contemplating a fix, that would be welcome news and would put an end to my blathering on about this subject.  

TiVo-Manufactured DVR Technical Support
24 hour automated support: 877-367-8486
Phone number: 877-367-8486
Hours of operation:
Monday - Sunday
8:00 AM - 8:00 PM Pacific


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## Timber (Apr 28, 2002)

Some of y'all need to get a life with the "9.1 is a disaster" or alternatively "you whiners need to stop complainin'" posts. It happens (to me at least) and its not the end of the freakin' world.

Sheesh!

-=Tim=-


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

moyekj said:


> You're OTA only for HD channels right? If so maybe CableCard users are affected but OTA only are not... (I have OTA + CableCards but I believe my OTA HD recordings are also affected but I will double check).
> 
> Also, you did try the quick succession of pushes of 30SS and verified that for each push you are getting updated video frames? By quick succession I mean several pushes per second.


Yes, no cablecards for me....just OTA HD. And yes I tried 30SS just the way I normally use it; rapid button pushes. Works just as well now as it did before the update.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Timber said:


> Some of y'all need to get a life with the "9.1 is a disaster" or alternatively "you whiners need to stop complainin'" posts. It happens (to me at least) and its not the end of the freakin' world.
> 
> Sheesh!
> 
> -=Tim=-


Yeah, I love it when someone says...."blah blah blah BROKE blah blah blah"....yet their TiVo still does the basic thing it's designed to do -- record and playback video efficiently. And I know, I know...someone's gonna chime in here that TiVo is "so much more than that" and "we've come to expect all these nice features"....and I don't argue with that. But it's still time shifting your favorite shows, isn't it?


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## mchief (Sep 10, 2005)

bareyb said:


> I beginning to think this might be an HD recordings only problem. That may explain why some folks aren't seeing it. My Standard Def stuff seems to be working as before. It seems as though only my HD recordings have the image lag on 30SS and Instant Replay.


My experience of no problems with 30SS is only HD. I have very few SD programs that I record.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Timber said:


> Some of y'all need to get a life with the "9.1 is a disaster" or alternatively "you whiners need to stop complainin'" posts. It happens (to me at least) and its not the end of the freakin' world.
> 
> Sheesh!
> 
> -=Tim=-


Hey Tim. 
The reason for these posts is for TiVo to know about the problem. I am assuming you want the problem fixed no? Why the hostile (and non-helpful) posts? You sure as hell don't need to defend TiVo to ME. I'm as big a fan of Tivo as anyone.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Bierboy said:


> yet their TiVo still does the basic thing it's designed to do -- record and *playback video efficiently*.


 That's pretty funny because the problem being highlighted in this thread is exactly a playback issue - not being as efficient as it used to be when using playback trick functions.
Apparently it doesn't affect everyone or many don't care but there certainly is a good percentage of respondents to the poll that are affected. To me one of the biggest DVR uses is for skipping commercials, so anything that adversely affects doing that efficiently gets my attention.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

Bierboy said:


> Yeah, I love it when someone says...."blah blah blah BROKE blah blah blah"....yet their TiVo still does the basic thing it's designed to do -- record and playback video efficiently. And I know, I know...someone's gonna chime in here that TiVo is "so much more than that" and "we've come to expect all these nice features"....and I don't argue with that. But it's still time shifting your favorite shows, isn't it?


That's a slippery slope towards Motorola/SA level boxes which cost digital subscribers only $12 month with no hardware investment.


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## BigJohnW101 (Oct 6, 2007)

Help!! This is the first time using the forum. I am thinking of buying a Tivo, but I wanted to know if it will work along with my cable recorder. Then, I can record 4 show during the time periods.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

bareyb said:


> Bless you MikeS! Keep 'em coming folks. I'm feeling better about this every day. if it affects enough people then we'll likely get a fix. This is a pain in the ass. My button pressing speed is locked into my brain at this point, and this new development is seriously messing with my TiVo groove.


Well I finally checked analog content, and there is no problem there. Haven't checked SD content yet though... anyone else?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

BigJohnW101 said:


> Help!! This is the first time using the forum. I am thinking of buying a Tivo, but I wanted to know if it will work along with my cable recorder. Then, I can record 4 show during the time periods.


The TivoHD replaces the cable box. But there's no reason you can't buy a TivoHD and keep your cable co DVR so you can record four channels at once instead of two.

As an alternative, you could return your cable co DVR and buy two TivoHDs. The advantage of having two TivoHDs is that it lets you transfer recordings between the two boxes (with MRV in November). If you had one TivoHD in your living room and another in your bedroom, you could access all the living room recordings on your bedroom Tivo and vice versa. You can't transfer recordings between a TivoHD and cable company DVRs.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

Not seeing any problems here with HD. Is all HD the same from all cable providers and OTA? (IOW, same count for I-frames and all that jazz) Why would some be having a problem and others not?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

greg_burns said:


> Not seeing any problems here with HD. Is all HD the same from all cable providers and OTA? (IOW, same count for I-frames and all that jazz) Why would some be having a problem and others not?


It could also be a matter of perception. Honestly, it's not THAT big of a problem, just an annoyance. Some people might not even think about it, especially if they don't use skip/replay much.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

MickeS said:


> It could also be a matter of perception. Honestly, it's not THAT big of a problem, just an annoyance. Some people might not even think about it, especially if they don't use skip/replay much.


There is a significant pause compared to how it responded before the update. It's something I can just feel, since I've used the 30 sec skip for so many years. (When I say significant, it's probably less than a second vs. instant,)


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

greg_burns said:


> Not seeing any problems here with HD. Is all HD the same from all cable providers and OTA? :


Compression varies from broadcaster to broadcaster and cable co to cable co. Different broadcasters and cable companies use different equipment and apply different levels of compression.

About the only channel that is consistent from one region to the next is FOX OTA. FOX is the only network to supply all its affiliates with the same equipment, which passes through the source feed without added compression.


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## ReidWings (Nov 1, 2004)

I too have noticed my 30-sec skip has a lag since the update. I used to have a Series 2 unit and that had instantaneous skipping. When I upgraded to the Series 3, I felt it was lagged compared to the Series 2 and was told this was due to the differing encryption on the cable cards. Either I got used to this difference or it got better over time because it seemed fine to me for a long time. Of course until this 9.1 update. Now again I find myself very annoyed by the lag time with 30 sec skip. Hopefully they fix this problem because it is significantly delayed compared to pre 9.1. 

The main reason I love tivo has always been that instant feedback, but now it sucks! I know it's pre 9.1 thinking but I miss the old ways.


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## PHeadland (Mar 29, 2005)

My TiVo HD is skipping just fine on recordings made today. No freeze up at all. We did see some odd glitches with replay only skipping back about 1 second just after the update, but those seem to have gone away - everything is working just fine now.

Nice that the 30 second skip is "sticky". What a shame they didn't make the "hide pause display" (Select-Play-Select-Pause-Select) sticky also. Still, that one is far less disruptive when it gets reset.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

pl1 said:


> There is a significant pause compared to how it responded before the update. It's something I can just feel, since I've used the 30 sec skip for so many years. (When I say significant, it's probably less than a second vs. instant,)


Yes, there is. But someone who might not use it much might think it's like it's supposed to be.

Also, I haven't noticed this problem on my Series 2.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

MickeS said:


> Yes, there is. But someone who might not use it much might think it's like it's supposed to be.


Exactly right. And, it is still useable. It's certainly not a deal breaker, but I would prefer it restored to it's previous behavior if I had a choice. I think there was more visual feedback. It appears that all video is blocked during the skip sequence.


> Also, I haven't noticed this problem on my Series 2.


I trust you. I have not checked it with my S2. I have it unplugged right now.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

I'm noticing an overall improvement with the 30 sec skip on both of my TiVo's for some reason. I'm not sure how it would improve on it's own, but it does seem to be back to normal.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

greg_burns said:


> Not seeing any problems here with HD. Is all HD the same from all cable providers and OTA? (IOW, same count for I-frames and all that jazz) Why would some be having a problem and others not?


Today I finally saw this problem with 30sec skip and IR. (Very obvious when it is happening, I was being to think it might be something subtle I was missing).

But it just started!?! In fact if I go back and watch a show I was watching hour ago (that didn't have the problem) it is doing it now too!

Rebooting to see what happens.

Edit: rebooting didn't help


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## KRKeegan (Jul 20, 2004)

I am still having this issue in the 9.2 software too.

The 30 second skip and replay buttons are not as responsive as the used to be.

I did notice a quirk, programs transferred from my TiVo Series 2 to the TiVoHD function perfectly. The 30 second skip and replay are both very responsive when watching these programs.

On a whim I tried changing the recording quality to see if this helped, but it didn't do a thing.

This problem occurs in BOTH HD and SD recordings.


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

I am so pissed that Tivo doesnt seem to give a damn about this; and that they repeatedly lied to me about the issue being fixed in 9.2.

This is the sort of crap that convinced me to ditch DirecTV and their stinking HR20.

Whoever is doing release management and QA over at Tivo should be fired.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

I still have the problem too. My Comcast POS has better 30 SS now. It doesn't help that a lot of folks are not sophisticated enough to even know they have the problem (see poll above). This just tells TiVo Inc. "hey no problem, we don't even notice it" and it gets sent to the bottom of the priority list. I expect we'll be living with this for a long time to come.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

bareyb said:


> I still have the problem too. My Comcast POS has better 30 SS now. It doesn't help that a lot of folks are not sophisticated enough to even know they have the problem (see poll above). This just tells TiVo Inc. "hey no problem, we don't even notice it" and it gets sent to the bottom of the priority list. I expect we'll be living with this for a long time to come.


Have you verified that it is actually affecting each and every person who voted "no problem"? I don't see any difference.

There are a lot of these problems (FF, skip) that depend on what the particular cable franchise is doing when compressing. Different franchises do different things with I-frames and such which are critical for the instant replay, and apparently used for going forward as well. Perhaps the TiVo is slower in your particular area recovering to the correct frame, but is fine for others.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

CrispyCritter said:


> Have you verified that it is actually affecting each and every person who voted "no problem"? I don't see any difference.
> 
> There are a lot of these problems (FF, skip) that depend on what the particular cable franchise is doing when compressing. Different franchises do different things with I-frames and such which are critical for the instant replay, and apparently used for going forward as well. Perhaps the TiVo is slower in your particular area recovering to the correct frame, but is fine for others.


Easy enough to find out. Go into the NPL on your Series 3 (Frank) and find an HD program that you recorded recently. Start the show and then hit 30SS 20 times in a row as fast as you can. Do you see the "same" image on the screen or does each button press cause the picture to advance ahead by 30 seconds?


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

bareyb said:


> Easy enough to find out. Go into the NPL on your Series 3 (Frank) and find an HD program that you recorded recently. Start the show and then hit 30SS 20 times in a row as fast as you can. Do you see the "same" image on the screen or does each button press cause the picture to advance ahead by 30 seconds?


 I've resigned to the likely scenario that this issue is here to stay... There is one advantage to this that if commercials are pretty regular (3 mins) then you can hit the skip button six times quickly and never catch even a glimpse of a commercial. More often however I end up overshooting end of commercials by 30 secs and have to then press skip back about 4 times to correct it - pain! To me even most SD recordings suffer from this issue now, mostly because I press the skip buttons in very quick succession. I tried going back to using 3x FF again but that one is hard to get right as well as the speed and jump back is not consistent from program to program.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

bareyb said:


> Easy enough to find out. Go into the NPL on your Series 3 (Frank) and find an HD program that you recorded recently. Start the show and then hit 30SS 20 times in a row as fast as you can. Do you see the "same" image on the screen or does each button press cause the picture to advance ahead by 30 seconds?


I don't have this problem with every HD channel I get. A&EHD is the one I notice it the worse with. Just tried it on CBS and it is fine. Definitely related some how to these I frames and bitrates I suspect.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

greg_burns said:


> Definitely related some how to these I frames and bitrates I suspect.


Nah. That makes no logical sense. 30SS worked fine for a year and the problem showed up with TiVo software update 9.1. That's the variable that changed. 30SS worked perfectly on all material on my Series three for almost a year until the fated update 9.1 and 9.2. THAT'S what broke our 30SS.

I'd love to blame Comcast but this is directly the fault of a software update. There's no way this is a coincidence. FWIW, TiVo KNOWS they broke 30SS (I have this on direct authority) they just haven't figured out how to fix it yet. It's a big deal to me and wish they'd put back whatever it is they changed but it's obviously not that easy. Otherwise, I'm in love with my S3. It's been rock solid for awhile.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

bareyb said:


> Nah. That makes no logical sense. 30SS worked fine for a year and the problem showed up with TiVo software update 9.1. That's the variable that changed. 30SS worked perfectly on all material on my Series three for almost a year until the fated update 9.1 and 9.2. THAT'S what broke our 30SS.


No, it was most definately something changed in 9.1 that broke this. But I do think it is related to bitrates and those I frames. Otherwise, it would be happening with all recordings wouldn't you think?


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

greg_burns said:


> No, it was most definately something changed in 9.1 that broke this. But I do think it is related to bitrates and those I frames. Otherwise, it would be happening with all recordings wouldn't you think?


Ah okay. I had the impression that some folks may have thought this was the fault of the Cable companies (that they had changed something that broke our TiVos) and had nothing to do with the TiVo software. It's definitely a problem with HD material for me so the way TiVo handles that material has changed. My 30SS works fine on SD stuff. I wish I knew what the common thread was (besides 9.1). One day it all worked and the next day it didn't.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

bareyb said:


> Ah okay. I had the impression that some folks may have thought this was the fault of the Cable companies (that they had changed something that broke our TiVos) and had nothing to do with the TiVo software. It's definitely a problem with HD material for me so the way TiVo handles that material has changed. My 30SS works fine on SD stuff. I wish I knew what the common thread was (besides 9.1). One day it all worked and the next day it didn't.


Yes, I certainly didn't mean to imply that 9.1 had nothing to do with it. I'm sure TiVo changed things in 9.1. But the effect will be different for different cable companies.

Going back to the original software, there were scattered people who had very serious problems with FF (because of what their local cable company did with their signal). They would do FFx3 for the commercials, but then the backwards adjustment at the end might take them 5 minutes before the commercials started! Those problems were fixed (at least I don't hear about them any more) in later releases, so I'm sure TiVo has been adjusting their algorithms, including in 9.1.

I did your "repeat 20 times as fast as you can test". I can find HD stations that change basically every button press, and a couple that only change about half the time. It doesn't sound nearly as serious for me as what you see.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

CrispyCritter said:


> I did your "repeat 20 times as fast as you can test". I can find HD stations that change basically every button press, and a couple that only change about half the time. It doesn't sound nearly as serious for me as what you see.


That's crazy. It does it to me on virtually any HD recording... I wonder what the difference is? Sounds like whatever they did, it's not clear why or to whom it screwed things up. Probably one reason it hasn't been fixed yet. Nuts.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

bareyb said:


> I wonder what the difference is?


I don't.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

greg_burns said:


> I don't.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

bareyb said:


>


I was trying to be funny. Failed again. 

I don't wonder what the difference is because some of us are speculating it is the difference between your cable provider and ours. You know... what we were just discussing.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

greg_burns said:


> I was trying to be funny. Failed again.
> 
> I don't wonder what the difference is because some of us are speculating it is the difference between your cable provider and ours. You know... what we were just discussing.


 Well HD OTA recordings have the same issue after the 9.1 update but not before, so it's not all (if at all) cable company related...


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

moyekj said:


> Well HD OTA recordings have the same issue after the 9.1 update but not before, so it's not all (if at all) cable company related...


I thought I heard the "cable companies" usually just rebroadcast the same OTA signal without mucking with them?

Who ever is broadcasting the OTA signal (and providing the same signal to the cable company) have control over the bitrates don't they?. Seems to be me, it could be related.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

greg_burns said:


> I thought I heard the "cable companies" usually just rebroadcast the same OTA signal without mucking with them?
> 
> Who ever is broadcasting the OTA signal (and providing the same signal to the cable company) have control over the bitrates don't they?. Seems to be me, it could be related.


 Cable companies have to "muck" with them a little bit to mux them into a QAM along with other channels, so there's always some bit rate shaping going on by cable company even if minimal and with no noticeable effect on quality.
Certainly local broadcasters use different equipment and methods for broadcasting so it could vary from market to market, but I suspect if we held a poll that is market specific to say OTA broadcast in Los Angeles or New York area you would get some respondents saying they have the problem and others that don't. I get the LA feed of the HD OTA locals.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

moyekj said:


> ...but I suspect if we held a poll that is market specific to say OTA broadcast in Los Angeles or New York area you would get some respondents saying they have the problem and others that don't. I get the LA feed of the HD OTA locals.


That would be an interesting poll. :up:

Afraid my area is too sparsely populated to be meaningful. But no problems with my CBS OTA. (But I do see this with some HD cable channels like A&E.)


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## rossm777 (Mar 20, 2004)

bareyb said:


> Trying to get a feel for how many folks this new update has affected. My "30 Second Skip" and "Instant Replay" both lag far behind the button presses now, making it impossible to accurately navigate past commercial and/or find the beginning of the show again. Not sure but it seems to happen on HD content more than older recordings I have in NON HD format. Let's try and narrow down the problem and see if we can help TiVo fix this annoyance.
> 
> If any one hears anything from TiVo or knows of a fix post it here. I consider this a huge problem as it affects the day to day usage. The navigation was what set this machine apart from the Comcast DVR with it's sluggish response. Hopefully a fix is on the way.
> 
> If this doesn't happen to your TiVo please mention if you have tried it on a NEW HD RECORDING. Also let's see if this has anything to do with platform. Do you have an S3 or a new TiVo HD?


My system operated wonderfully, then all of a sudden Instant Replay would go to end of program when performing FF3 skip over commercials and using the Instant Replay button to stop the FF3 and reverse to the end of the commercial. I had it down to a science and the something changed.

Interesting. The possibility that a bug in 9.1/9.2 (whichever it is) could affect the remote "Instant Replay (I-R)" function. I don't remember when the 9.x release came out, but my I-R button has been jumping around not as predictibly as it used to. 
Also when I FF3 into the last 10 minutes of a program and press the I-R button, it jumps to the end of the program (forward not backward) and I have to backspace to the right spot to watch the end of the program.

I have used 2 Tivo S3 remotes with fresh store-bought batteries and now even a replacement S3 (sent by tech support/customer service when they couldn't fix my problem)and the problem is still there. I'll have to look up the 30 second skip function and try using that instead


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## rossm777 (Mar 20, 2004)

moyekj said:


> You're OTA only for HD channels right? If so maybe CableCard users are affected but OTA only are not... (I have OTA + CableCards but I believe my OTA HD recordings are also affected but I will double check).
> 
> Also, you did try the quick succession of pushes of 30SS and verified that for each push you are getting updated video frames? By quick succession I mean several pushes per second.


There is a lot of talk about 30SS, but no where have I found what button(s) I use to perform a 30SS.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

rossm777 said:


> There is a lot of talk about 30SS, but no where have I found what button(s) I use to perform a 30SS.


First you have to enable it.

S-P-S-3-0-S (while playing back a recording!)

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=122090


> This turns the Skip to End button into a 30 second skip button.


Use to be it would have to be reenabled after a reboot. But that is no longer the case.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

rossm777 said:


> I have used 2 Tivo S3 remotes with fresh store-bought batteries and now even a replacement S3 (sent by tech support/customer service when they couldn't fix my problem)and the problem is still there. I'll have to look up the 30 second skip function and try using that instead


The problem is some interaction with the 9.x code and how you cable company is encoding thier digital transmission. Not your remote!


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## rossm777 (Mar 20, 2004)

bareyb said:


> Trying to get a feel for how many folks this new update has affected. My "30 Second Skip" and "Instant Replay" both lag far behind the button presses now, making it impossible to accurately navigate past commercial and/or find the beginning of the show again. Not sure but it seems to happen on HD content more than older recordings I have in NON HD format. Let's try and narrow down the problem and see if we can help TiVo fix this annoyance.
> 
> If any one hears anything from TiVo or knows of a fix post it here. I consider this a huge problem as it affects the day to day usage. The navigation was what set this machine apart from the Comcast DVR with it's sluggish response. Hopefully a fix is on the way.
> 
> If this doesn't happen to your TiVo please mention if you have tried it on a NEW HD RECORDING. Also let's see if this has anything to do with platform. Do you have an S3 or a new TiVo HD?


I got the 9.3 update last night and checked out my Instant Replay (8 second rewind) and it now works.

FYI my original problem was when FF3 over a comercial, I would hit Instant replay when I saw the commercial was over and when it worked I was pretty close to the end of the commercial. Then the BUG creprt in and if I did the above in the last 10 minutes of a program, Instant Replay jumped to the end of file (end of program). I am so glad that major annoyance is fixed.

I was alerted to the software update in another part of the forum


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## rossm777 (Mar 20, 2004)

rossm777 said:


> My system operated wonderfully, then all of a sudden Instant Replay would go to end of program when performing FF3 skip over commercials and using the Instant Replay button to stop the FF3 and reverse to the end of the commercial. I had it down to a science and the something changed.
> 
> Interesting. The possibility that a bug in 9.1/9.2 (whichever it is) could affect the remote "Instant Replay (I-R)" function. I don't remember when the 9.x release came out, but my I-R button has been jumping around not as predictibly as it used to.
> Also when I FF3 into the last 10 minutes of a program and press the I-R button, it jumps to the end of the program (forward not backward) and I have to backspace to the right spot to watch the end of the program.
> ...


Software Update 9.3 Fixed My Problem.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

rossm777 said:


> Software Update 9.3 Fixed My Problem.


I've been checking the update priority list regularly. Is there a way I can get on "the list"? I'd love to get my 30SS fixed.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

bareyb said:


> I've been checking the update priority list regularly. Is there a way I can get on "the list"? I'd love to get my 30SS fixed.


Check again. 

http://research.tivo.com/93priority/index.htm

Oh, crap. The list is only for S2s.


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## Omikron (Feb 27, 2006)

bareyb said:


> I've been checking the update priority list regularly. Is there a way I can get on "the list"? I'd love to get my 30SS fixed.


Well, that's one of the first things I checked when I got the new update but while 30SS works fine on SD content, it will still "freeze" on the current frame if you press it too quickly on HD content.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

greg_burns said:


> Check again.
> 
> http://research.tivo.com/93priority/index.htm
> 
> Oh, crap. The list is only for S2s.


That explains it. I'm on a series 3. Oh well, it doesn't sound like the 30SS "video update lag" got fixed anyway.


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## Omikron (Feb 27, 2006)

I checked for this bug again in 9.3a.A1 and found that while the issue still appears to exist when pressing the button VERY quickly, the response time has been improved to the point where I don't think it will be a big issue anymore.


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

Were you watching HD, or SD?


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## Omikron (Feb 27, 2006)

bizzy said:


> Were you watching HD, or SD?


1080i HD


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

Omikron said:


> 1080i HD


sweet, that's good news. i'm glad they finally fixed it.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

I don't notice any major change regarding this regression. It might be slightly faster than before, but certainly not fixed to previous behavior.

I still see the same frame on the screen if I try to skip forward/back too quickly for 1080i or 720p shows.

If I slow down skips then the frame gets updated.

1080i is slight quicker at updating and 720p is slightly slower.


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

this bug was probably pretty low on the priority list underneath important stuff like support for myspace videos.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

bizzy said:


> this bug was probably pretty low on the priority list underneath important stuff like support for myspace videos.


LOL. Yeah, it's not like we ever use 30 second skip... 
My new Motorola Comcrap box has better 30 SS than my S3. I never thought I'd see the day... I love you TiVo Inc. but this is Lame with a capital "L". Fix the friggin' 30 second skip will ya?


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Just tested out 9.3a on 1 of my S3s and I find that 30SS is a little improved for 1080i with little or no improvement for 720p, and certainly not as speedy as it was pre-9.1. I can still very easily press the skip button in fairly quick succession and have the screen freeze on 1 frame for the duration unless I slow presses down.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Well I'm happy to report for those of us who still have the dreaded "30 second skip problem", they seem to have fixed it with the latest update 9.4. It works perfectly now, like it did before 9.1. I can press the button as fast as I want to and the image on the screen just keeps on updating! I'd forgotten how much I miss that! Thank you TiVo! :up::up::up:


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