# Cox, Bolt, Cable Card & Tuning Adapter



## big0mike (Oct 27, 2015)

I just realized I'm not getting a few of the "Movie Pack" channels that I'm paying for on my Bolt. I see the channels but I get the "Channel Not Available. Contact service provider" error. I see HBO as well as many other optional channels in various packs.

Called Cox and did a couple resets of the card but no luck. Said I can either try the tuning adapter or replace the Cable Card.

I plugged in the tuning adapter and I never got it to come online (still blinking light after 45 minutes to an hour) I decided to go to the next step and plug in the USB cable. Then the Bolt warned me the TA had less than 4 tuners. That ain't gonna work.

I plan to replace the Cable Card but curious if anyone has a suggestion before I waste an hour in the Cox store.

Thanks,

Mike


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

I have a Bolt on Cox San Diego South with a CableCARD and Tuning Adapter and it's working fine, just as my Roamio Basic did with the same set-up. They must have given you a very old TA if it can't handle 4 tuners; I believe that they all handle 6 now. TAs don't have video tuners; the number of tuners they can work with is mainly a software thing; maybe yours needs a firmware update.

What equipment is Cox using in your area? It's Cisco stuff where I am. 

(I've been having trouble with occasional flakey signal strength for a couple of channels out of the back of my TA and talking about this just made me realize that I could use the split of the cable that's running into my TV's tuner instead. I never actually use the TV's tuner; it's just hooked up for "proof of concept" ).


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## big0mike (Oct 27, 2015)

Yeah, all our stuff is Cisco as well. Did you HAVE to use the TA? I find it odd that I can see all my channels & HBO as well as another sports package but this one movie package (with Epix) won't give me anything on those channels. I checked right after I found out and the Cox Cisco DVR in the other room gives them to me just fine.

Mike


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

Mike, where are you located?

All Cox markets need to use the Tuning Adapter,

Many Cox markets need the TA for most channels above Starter TV and Essential TV, (SD channels above 99 and HD channels above ~ 1050)

Here is a very outdated list for Cox Arizona, more channels have been moved to use the TA (SDV)
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10331352#post10331352

Cox has said that once a market gets rid of all the analog channels, that all Starter TV and Essential TV will not need a Tuning Adapter.


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## big0mike (Oct 27, 2015)

CoxInPHX said:


> Mike, where are you located?


Phoenix, AZ



CoxInPHX said:


> All Cox markets need to use the Tuning Adapter,
> 
> Many Cox markets need the TA for most channels above Starter TV and Essential TV, (SD channels above 99 and HD channels above ~ 1050)
> 
> ...


After looking at that thread looks like I get to return the TA and Cable Card.

Also curious as to why 1200 & 1201 (HBO) don't need the TA but the HBO channels above those numbers require it. I also find it amusing that I'm gonna have to reboot the TA once a month.

Amusing but not surprising since I've been with cox for nearly 20 years...

I appreciate the help.

Mike


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

big0mike said:


> Phoenix, AZ
> 
> After looking at that thread looks like I get to return the TA and Cable Card.


You are returning the Bolt, because you need the TA?

That's crazy, it works extremely well, I rarely ever have any issues. Rebooting the TA once a month is just a precaution, that keeps it synced.


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## big0mike (Oct 27, 2015)

CoxInPHX said:


> big0mike said:
> 
> 
> > After looking at that thread looks like I get to return the TA and Cable Card.
> ...


You misread that. I said I have to return the TA and Cable Card.

Is Cox gonna give me a TA with 4 tuners this time?


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

big0mike said:


> You misread that. I said I have to return the TA and Cable Card.
> 
> Is Cox gonna give me a TA with 4 tuners this time?


All Cisco TAs support 6 Tuners, (actually they support 8) There is no Cisco TA that supports less than 6.

The TA Firmware will automatically update to F.2001, assuming you have good signals.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

big0mike said:


> Also curious as to why 1200 & 1201 (HBO) don't need the TA but the HBO channels above those numbers require it. I also find it amusing that I'm gonna have to reboot the TA once a month.


Which channels are switched is completely up to your local cable provider. The switched channels on your Cox Cable system might be quite different from the ones which are switched on mine. I think that they can specify a different set of switched channels in different segments of the same cable system if they want to.

I don't have to reboot my TA monthly, though it does occasionally flake out and need restarting. Did Cox tell you that you'd have to do that?


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

mikeyts said:


> I don't have to reboot my TA monthly, though it does occasionally flake out and need restarting. Did Cox tell you that you'd have to do that?


That's the point of the monthly reboot, to almost never get that TA "flake-out".

The TA may be good for many weeks or months, but it will eventually flake-out, the monthly reboot seems to almost entirely eliminate that surprise.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

CoxInPHX said:


> That's the point of the monthly reboot, to almost never get that TA "flake-out".
> 
> The TA may be good for many weeks or months, but it will eventually flake-out, the monthly reboot seems to almost entirely eliminate that surprise.


So how do people go about these monthly reboots? Manually? Or do they use those outlet timers and just keep them in "always on" mode most of the time?


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

I just unplug the TA and manually reboot, every month when I pay my bills.

Some do go to the extreme and place them on a digital lamp timer, to reboot daily, or weekly.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Only Cisco TAs need reboots. Moto TAs will run fine indefinitely.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

mdavej said:


> Only Cisco TAs need reboots. Moto TAs will run fine indefinitely.


wrong motorola's fail also


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

I haven't rebooted mine in 4 years. Do you have to periodically have to reboot yours? If so, you probably should exchange it for a working one. That's definitely not normal for Motorola.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

big0mike said:


> You misread that. I said I have to return the TA and Cable Card.
> 
> Is Cox gonna give me a TA with 4 tuners this time?


I'm on Time Warner, and when I changed from two tuner Series 3's to a 6 tuner Roamio Pro, the Motorola TA that had been working fine with two tuners initially said "This tuning device cannot support 6 tuners!" or something very similar.

I kept it plugged in because I was busy doing something else, and about 15 minutes later, lo and behold, the TA changed the message to indicate it was downloading an update, then the error message cleared, and all 6 tuners started working.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

mdavej said:


> I haven't rebooted mine in 4 years. Do you have to periodically have to reboot yours? If so, you probably should exchange it for a working one. That's definitely not normal for Motorola.


I've had several Motorola TAs over the last 8 years, and every single one has gone stupid at one point or another and needed a hard power-off reset. I'm on TW Los Angeles.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

dougdingle said:


> I've had several Motorola TAs over the last 8 years, and every single one has gone stupid at one point or another and needed a hard power-off reset. I'm on TW Los Angeles.


But you don't have to do it monthly like the Cisco guys. That's my main point. I can live with a reboot every leap year, but monthly would be hard to take.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

mdavej said:


> But you don't have to do it monthly like the Cisco guys.


No, I don't. And it's usually obvious when it's necessary - either I can't tune the stations I'm paying for, or the Minis say "all tuners in use" when I try to tune to a live show.

And if it loses touch with mom and the yellow lock light starts flashing, of course, although that seems to happen a lot less often the last 3 or 4 years.

It adds a layer of complexity that I could do without, but I understand the reasoning and necessity behind he concept.


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## big0mike (Oct 27, 2015)

Got my TA to stay green. Added both Mac addresses to my whitelist. I can see the channels I couldn't before. Can't get MoCA to work.

Mysteriously found yet another Mac address looking through some setup dialog so I added it to my whitelist. Unplugged everything and plugged it all back in. Now the TA is blinking again.

Lovely...


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

big0mike said:


> Got my TA to stay green. Added both Mac addresses to my whitelist. I can see the channels I couldn't before. Can't get MoCA to work.
> 
> Mysteriously found yet another Mac address looking through some setup dialog so I added it to my whitelist. Unplugged everything and plugged it all back in. Now the TA is blinking again.
> 
> Lovely...


How is your tuning adapter physically connected to your BOLT? Is it installed according to the Cox Tuning Adapter Self-Install Instructions, here (PDF)? (i.e. tuning adapter and BOLT connected to outputs of splitter, but with a MoCA filter on the input to the tuning adapter; TA & BOLT only connected via USB cable)


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## big0mike (Oct 27, 2015)

And, I'm not getting all four tuners. Unplug the TA and got my last tuner back and the coax light on the MoCA adapter comes back on.



krkaufman said:


> How is your tuning adapter physically connected to your BOLT? Is it installed according to the Cox Tuning Adapter Self-Install Instructions, here (PDF)? (i.e. tuning adapter and BOLT connected to outputs of splitter, but with a MoCA filter on the input to the tuning adapter; TA & BOLT only connected via USB cable)


No. I have the cable from the wall going into the TA in the appropriate hole and a cable going from the TA to the Bolt. For at least two reasons:

1. My MoCA POE filter is where the cable comes into the house like it's supposed to be.

2. I got neither a splitter nor an extra coax cable with my tuning adapter.

Maybe it never fully updated. Maybe instead of 20 minutes it will actually take 20 hours? Would not surprise me with Cox. I'll let it sit plugged into an cable outlet with no TV and see what happens tomorrow evening.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

big0mike said:


> No. I have the cable from the wall going into the TA in the appropriate hole and a cable going from the TA to the Bolt. For at least two reasons:
> 
> 1. My MoCA POE filter is where the cable comes into the house like it's supposed to be.


And that MoCA filter *should* be installed there, at your cable provider's Point-of-Entry (PoE) to your home. That's your "PoE" MoCA filter, the filter that confines your MoCA signals to your premises -- providing both security and improved signal strength/responsiveness. Keep it there.



> 2. I got neither a splitter nor an extra coax cable with my tuning adapter.


I can't speak for why Cox wouldn't have provided you with those, given that their self-install instructions explicitly call for their use and box #1 in the instructions lists them as being part of the self-install kit. You can acquire these parts, along with the additional MoCA filter, on your own, but Cox should have supplied you with them.

Aside from reviewing the Cox install instructions, you may also want to give the following post a read, explaining why a _MoCA_ filter needs to be installed on the input to a tuning adapter.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10706105#post10706105​
Note that part of the confusion comes from so many people referring to MoCA filters as "PoE filters." They're not just for placement at a home's Point-of-Entry; they're for placement wherever MoCA signals need to be blocked/reflected: including tuning adapters and MoCA-incompatible cable modems.

If you're unable to reconfigure the tuning adapter and BOLT to be configured per the Cox self-install instructions, I would postpone enabling MoCA on your network, as:

connecting the BOLT through the tuning adapter will either prohibit or severely hinder your MoCA signals;
MoCA signals may interfere with your tuning adapter's operation (per the post above).
Once the tuning adapter is correctly connected, including a MoCA filter placed on its input, MoCA can be enabled.

'gist: It's no surprise that you're having trouble getting MoCA working.

p.s. Disabling MoCA *may* also help allow the tuning adapter to fully update.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

More generally, see:
*Cox Tuning Adapter Self Install Kits*​


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## ebr206 (Nov 29, 2015)

Question. Sorta related. 

Just setup my new Bolt tonight but I'm not getting my cable channels above 13. 

The Comcast person said it can take up to 24 hours for all my channels to show up. This true?


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## big0mike (Oct 27, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> I can't speak for why Cox wouldn't have provided you with those, given that their self-install instructions explicitly call for their use and box #1 in the instructions lists them as being part of the self-install kit.


Ummm... Because they are incompetent? Not only did they NOT give me everything I need (and that you pointed out they KNOW you need) I wasn't even given any instructions with the TA.



krkaufman said:


> Aside from reviewing the Cox install instructions, you may also want to give the following post a read, explaining why a _MoCA_ filter needs to be installed on the input to a tuning adapter.
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10706105#post10706105​
> Note that part of the confusion comes from so many people referring to MoCA filters as "PoE filters." They're not just for placement at a home's Point-of-Entry; they're for placement wherever MoCA signals need to be blocked/reflected: including tuning adapters and MoCA-incompatible cable modems.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I kinda figured the TA was blocking or not letting through the MoCA signal. Par for the course for Cox to supply a solution that adds more confusion.

Disabling MoCA isn't an option since I won't get updates (not such a big deal) or even the TV schedule (kinda a big deal).

As I said I was doing I plugged the TA into a spare coax jack and let it sit. This jack just happened to be in the same wall as the Bolt's jack. Just for sh|ts and giggles after letting it sit overnight I plugged in the USB cable and everything worked. Confirming what I thought, that the TA hates the MoCA signal.

Put it back it all back together with the rest of the AV system and everything seems to be working.

Seeing as it's working do I really need to buy another MoCA filter for the TA?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

ebr206 said:


> Question. Sorta related.


Not really related at all, aside from BOLT & CableCARD. For your benefit, and the benefit of others who may have a similar issue in the future, I'd recommend posing your issue as its own thread, with an appropriate title, so those with Comcast experience can provide some help.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

big0mike said:


> Disabling MoCA isn't an option since I won't get updates (not such a big deal) or even the TV schedule (kinda a big deal).


Disabling MoCA wasn't intended as a long-term solution; it was only meant as a short-term fix to let the tuning adapter run without the pesky MoCA signals confusing it, so that it could get fully updated. The expectation was that MoCA could be reactivated just as soon as the required equipment was procured and the necessary connection configuration could be employed.


krkaufman said:


> Once the tuning adapter is correctly connected, including a MoCA filter placed on its input, MoCA can be enabled.





> Put it back it all back together with the rest of the AV system and everything seems to be working.
> 
> Seeing as it's working do I really need to buy another MoCA filter for the TA?


You shouldn't have to "buy" anything. Just print out the Cox tuning adapter install instructions and take it to the local Cox office with all the missing "included in kit" items marked as such. Cox should supply you with whatever you need.

That said, no, you don't "need" to install the tuning adapter according to Cox's self-install instructions. You'd only need to do that if you plan on running MoCA on your coax plant and want to avoid the pitfalls associated with MoCA signals interfering with a tuning adapter's operation, as highlighted in a previous post.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

big0mike said:


> Ummm... Because they are incompetent? Not only did they NOT give me everything I need (and that you pointed out they KNOW you need) I wasn't even given any instructions with the TA.
> 
> Yeah, I kinda figured the TA was blocking or not letting through the MoCA signal. Par for the course for Cox to supply a solution that adds more confusion.
> 
> ...


Hi,
I would recommend you get one and install it as recommended to avoid future issues. If you are nearby a Cox store, I would just ask for one to replace the one missing with the TA self install kit. But if that is a problem, these can be found on Ebay fairly cheaply. http://www.ebay.com/itm/PPC-MoCA-SN...155674?hash=item2c9965f01a:g:YNoAAOSwBahVITbn


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Yep. For reasons I do not comprehend, people bend over backwards to avoid installing these cheap little filters. But it's at your own peril. If Cox won't give you any, just buy some already.

If you really, really hate Moca filters, just isolate your cable TV service from the rest of your coax network as I have done. No filters required in that case.


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## Surrealone (Dec 8, 2006)

mdavej said:


> Yep. For reasons I do not comprehend, people bend over backwards to avoid installing these cheap little filters. But it's at your own peril. If Cox won't give you any, just buy some already.
> 
> If you really, really hate Moca filters, just isolate your cable TV service from the rest of your coax network as I have done. No filters required in that case.


Question
I have a POE filter on my coax and I use MoCa But I do not have a PPC filter what is a PPC filter and should I add one and where do you add the PPC filter?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Surrealone said:


> Question
> I have a POE filter on my coax and I use MoCa But I do not have a PPC filter what is a PPC filter and should I add one and where do you add the PPC filter?


PPC is a company that makes coax products (among others)... http://www.ppc-online.com ... so it is a brand, not a type of filter. (The product listed in the auction linked by fcfc2 is a PPC-brand MoCA filter -- what you are referring to as a "PoE filter.")


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Surrealone said:


> Question
> I have a POE filter on my coax and I use MoCa But I do not have a PPC filter what is a PPC filter and should I add one and where do you add the PPC filter?


PPC is one company that makes Moca filters. I'm sure PPC would appreciate it if you threw out your current filter and bought one of theirs. But it isn't necessary.


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## big0mike (Oct 27, 2015)

mdavej said:


> Yep. For reasons I do not comprehend, people bend over backwards to avoid installing these cheap little filters. But it's at your own peril. If Cox won't give you any, just buy some already.


Not bending over backwards to avoid the filter. I already have one installed at the first input into the house and don't see why TWO are necessary. The TA already sh|tcans the MoCA signals so installing a filter that stops MoCA from going to a device that ignores MoCA makes no sense.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

big0mike said:


> Not bending over backwards to avoid the filter. I already have one installed at the first input into the house and don't see why TWO are necessary. *The TA already sh|tcans the MoCA signals so installing a filter that stops MoCA from going to a device that ignores MoCA makes no sense.*


That's the point. Your impression of what the tuning adapter is doing with the MoCA signals doesn't match experience. There's a reason that Cox's tuning adapter install instructions call for the filter to be installed. And as stated previously, the MoCA filter at your residence's PoE serves an entirely different purpose (same function, different purpose) and doesn't alter the need for the MoCA filter at the tuning adapter. (In the same way you might need _yet another_ MoCA filter placed on the input to your cable modem, if it weren't compatible with MoCA -- as some modems aren't.)

The resistance to doing what has been clearly documented as necessary is likely what is giving the impression of "bending over backwards to avoid the filter."

Of course, the split before the tuning adapter is the first requirement, which is why you need to press Cox for ALL the components you were shorted relative to the self-install kit.


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## big0mike (Oct 27, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> That's the point. Your impression of what the tuning adapter is doing with the MoCA signals doesn't match experience. There's a reason that Cox's tuning adapter install instructions call for the filter to be installed.
> 
> The resistance to doing what has been clearly documented as necessary is likely what is giving the impression of "bending over backwards to avoid the filter."


Sorry, I like to know *WHY* I'm doing something instead of just blindly buying things I may or may not need. Or, worse yet, having to wait in line at the Cox store yet again to get these items.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

If I had this problem and could solve it for $2, I would. Resisting won't give you your missing channels. As to why Moca causes problems with the TA, who knows. It would take a lot more analysis and knowledge of the TA circuitry to figure out, which is something I have zero interest in doing. 

Since you really don't like POE filters, just physically isolate your CATV network from you coax network as I do, and you won't need any filters at all and can ceremoniously destroy all your POE filters.


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## big0mike (Oct 27, 2015)

mdavej said:


> If I had this problem and could solve it for $2, I would. Resisting won't give you your missing channels. As to why Moca causes problems with the TA, who knows. It would take a lot more analysis and knowledge of the TA circuitry to figure out, which is something I have zero interest in doing.
> 
> Since you really don't like POE filters, just physically isolate your CATV network from you coax network as I do, and you won't need any filters at all and can ceremoniously destroy all your POE filters.


The problem was solved weeks ago once the TA finally became operational.

That's the main reason I'm "resisting" getting another MoCA filter. Everything is working. Why would I buy or waste time at the Cox store to get something that is not going to DO, FIX, or IMPROVE anything? That's why I wanna know WHY it's needed in several spots, in particular right before a device that either ignores or removes MoCA signals from the transmission.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

big0mike said:


> Sorry, I like to know *WHY* I'm doing something instead of just blindly buying things I may or may not need. Or, worse yet, having to wait in line at the Cox store yet again to get these items.


Yes, understood. And the "why" was provided up-thread, as well. Though the "why" shouldn't be all that relevant when the provider's documentation clearly instructs a particular configuration. Getting the problem resolved by implementing the recommended configuration will likely save time, time that can then be spent pondering theory.

Just trying to help; I'm not here to force you to do anything, so I'm done spending time arguing over what should be a given.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

big0mike said:


> The problem was solved weeks ago once the TA finally became operational.
> 
> That's the main reason I'm "resisting" getting another MoCA filter. Everything is working.


If everything is working, I'd be hesitant, as well.

But *is* everything working? As recently as 12/3 you stated that you couldn't get MoCA to work -- which is the only reason I replied in the first place. And your reply describing how your tuning adapter was connected to your BOLT quickly explained why you were having MoCA issues.

If everything's working, that's news, and great; if you're still having MoCA issues, the most likely solution has been on the table for 6 days.


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## big0mike (Oct 27, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> Yes, understood. And the "why" was provided up-thread, as well. Though the "why" shouldn't be all that relevant when the provider's documentation clearly instructs a particular configuration. Getting the problem resolved by implementing the recommended configuration will likely save time, time that can then be spent pondering theory.


I just went through and reread the post. I remember seeing it but likely didn't fully read it since you were talking about a different device. Now I see you needed it because of the extra "noise" due to the MoCA signal making the TA behave poorly.



krkaufman said:


> If everything is working, I'd be hesitant, as well.
> 
> But *is* everything working? As recently as 12/3 you stated that you couldn't get MoCA to work -- which is the only reason I replied in the first place. And your reply describing how your tuning adapter was connected to your BOLT quickly explained why you were having MoCA issues.
> 
> If everything's working, that's news, and great; if you're still having MoCA issues, the most likely solution has been on the table for 6 days.


OK, it's been working for a week. Once you posted that splitter diagram and I hooked it up like that everything worked. On 12-4 I said it was all working and asked "Seeing as it's working do I really need to buy another MoCA filter for the TA?"

I wasn't trying to be combative but apparently no one read that I had solved the problem and everything was working. I just wanted to know if the extra MoCA filter was necessary since everything was working properly.

Thanks for the help!


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

If it ain't broke ...


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

big0mike said:


> Got my TA to stay green. Added both Mac addresses to my whitelist. I can see the channels I couldn't before. Can't get MoCA to work.
> 
> Mysteriously found yet another Mac address looking through some setup dialog so I added it to my whitelist. Unplugged everything and plugged it all back in. Now the TA is blinking again.
> 
> Lovely...


what white list? the TA's connect via coax net internet


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

big0mike said:


> OK, it's been working for a week. Once you posted that splitter diagram and I hooked it up like that everything worked. On 12-4 I said it was all working and asked "Seeing as it's working do I really need to buy another MoCA filter for the TA?"
> 
> I wasn't trying to be combative but *apparently no one read that I had solved the problem and everything was working*. I just wanted to know if the extra MoCA filter was necessary since everything was working properly.


No, I read that declaration, that things were working, but *you hadn't stated at any point that you had at least implemented the splitter configuration* to feed the tuning adapter and DVR separately, so I've been expecting your MoCA to begin acting up at some point, even if it was apparently working at the time of that statement. Weakened MoCA signals *can* get through a tuning adapter, so everything may appear to be working... until it's not.

Splitter configuration implemented per recommendation... check.

As for the MoCA filter for the tuning adapter... you appear to have now read the previous responses explaining the issue. As stated previously, the choice/risk is all yours.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

big0mike said:


> Sorry, I like to know *WHY* I'm doing something instead of just blindly buying things I may or may not need.


The need for a MoCA POE filter at the Tuning Adapter has a direct correlation to the Signal level and Signal quality the TA receives, the FDC, RDC and SNR levels of the TA.

Without a MoCA POE filter, the TA may function properly during colder weather when the Signals are higher, and may fail during the summer when the signals will fall significantly.

There is a point where the TA's Signal levels Upstream and Downstream are simply not strong enough to compensate for the excess noise of the MoCA signal and communication to and from the cable plant will fail, due to the ingress into the TA of the MoCA signals. The MoCA POE filter is just to keep that excess noise out of the TA.


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