# Hoe To Expand TiVo Bolt storage?



## Chris Cardone

I'm sure this question has been asked many times, but what is the easiest way to expand storage?


----------



## Fant

Easiest way is to follow these three steps:

1) search this forum
2) follow instructions in thread
3) be happy


----------



## kazak99

Replace the internal hard drive with a larger one (3TB largest drive without having to do anything else - just swap it in).

*Install video*: 




*
Toshiba 3TB hard drive*: Toshiba MQ03ABB300 3.0TB 2.5-inch 15.0mm... in stock at MacSales.com

There are other options and choices - just sharing what I have done with my Bolt.


----------



## Chris Cardone

I was expecting to simply put a card into the e.sata drive. Is that e.sata slot for cards or just to hook up an external drive? Which cards or drives are approved? (I appreciate what you shared above, but are you sure other problems won't pop up?) Thanks


----------



## shwru980r

Chris Cardone said:


> I was expecting to simply put a card into the e.sata drive. Is that e.sata slot for cards or just to hook up an external drive? Which cards or drives are approved? (I appreciate what you shared above, but are you sure other problems won't pop up?) Thanks


There is only one model external hard drive with 500G and 1T variants that can be used on the esata port and it's not being manufactured anymore. Your best option is to replace the internal drive with a 3T drive.


----------



## mdavej

I think this is a terrible idea. Using a Hoe to expand your storage will only destroy your Tivo. Better to use a screwdriver to open the unit and install a new internal drive or plug in an external. Use a Hoe in the garden only, not on your electronics.


----------



## FreydNot

Be aware that many people (myself included) are having problems with their replacement drive failing. My WD 4TB drive lasted a year and a week before doing the flashing lights thing. I'm currently trying to use ddrescue to copy the data to a 5TB WD Red 3.5" drive that I happen to have around. Hopefully this will work and I will not have lost 4TB of Tivo recordings.

4 Lights Flashing on Bolt


----------



## dianebrat

FreydNot said:


> Be aware that many people (myself included) are having problems with their replacement drive failing. My WD 4TB drive lasted a year and a week before doing the flashing lights thing. I'm currently trying to use ddrescue to copy the data to a 5TB WD Red 3.5" drive that I happen to have around. Hopefully this will work and I will not have lost 4TB of Tivo recordings.
> 
> 4 Lights Flashing on Bolt


And that's why those of us who were playing it safe went with the 3TB Toshiba for an internal upgrade, there have been no failures or ill effects from that upgrade.


----------



## shwru980r

I bought this 2.5" Segate 3TB drive from Amazon for $99 to upgrade my bolt. It was listed as a used return. There are lots of one-star reviews because customers purchased the drive for a laptop, but the drive was too thick and didn't fit so it was returned. There were also a couple of positive reviews from people who used this hard drive in a bolt.

Amazon.com: Buying Choices: Seagate 3TB Laptop HDD SATA 6Gb/s 128MB Cache 2.5-Inch Internal Hard Drive (ST3000LM016)


----------



## fcfc2

Chris Cardone said:


> I'm sure this question has been asked many times, but what is the easiest way to expand storage?


For the BOLT only, the Toshiba 3tb referenced by several has been the internal go to drive for the upgrade. The esata port is really kind of useless for this generation of Tivos or any other IMO, as they are small and double your chances of losing everything if either drive fails. I think Tivo has dropped support for them by and large. There are several good guides for opening and closing the Tivo Bolt. I have used the Toshiba drive myself and I made the effort to run MSFR on it when doing the install even though it is not strictly necessary for that sized drive but I thought it was easy enough and might just save a little wear and tear on the drive. The other currently available Seagate 2.5" drives are all what are called SMR and are generally considered unsuitable due to that feature. One gent with the very earliest firmware thought he was passed the hump, but the last I heard one of his appears to be failing now.
The Toshiba drive is what they call PMR and is generally considered important for use in the Tivos.
A few have used larger 3.5" Reds in an external enclosure and using a sata to esata cable, but recently a bunch of them have reported failures using external esata drives but the fix at least for some was to replace the esata connector with a straight sata cable to the external drive and the Tivo motherboard.


----------



## Mikeguy

dianebrat said:


> And that's why those of us who were playing it safe went with the 3TB Toshiba for an internal upgrade, there have been no failures or ill effects from that upgrade.


Diane, must you always be the voice of rationality? It really gets rather tiresome.


----------



## dianebrat

Mikeguy said:


> Diane, must you always be the voice of rationality? It really gets rather tiresome.


When ya got it, flaunt it they say...
But seriously, when I saw folks being daring I knew the safest path would be with the already supported 3TB so nothing fancy, and the the Toshiba was another very safe choice since there were still unanswered questions on the Seagate units that seem to have even now thrown a monkey wrench into the works, so I'm not the voice of reason, more a careful chicken


----------



## Mikeguy

dianebrat said:


> When ya got it, flaunt it they say...
> But seriously, when I saw folks being daring I knew the safest path would be with the already supported 3TB so nothing fancy, and the the Toshiba was another very safe choice since there were still unanswered questions on the Seagate units that seem to have even now thrown a monkey wrench into the works, so I'm not the voice of reason, more a careful chicken


I'll take a chicken over a bull any day (but perhaps that explains why I'm a non-red-meat eater). I just saw, when I first started looking at replacement drives, that people seemed to report that the Toshiba had a tendency to just work, and others, not always as much as trouble-free. That seemed to lead to a certain logical conclusion, in my mind.


----------



## sastexan

dianebrat said:


> When ya got it, flaunt it they say...
> But seriously, when I saw folks being daring I knew the safest path would be with the already supported 3TB so nothing fancy, and the the Toshiba was another very safe choice since there were still unanswered questions on the Seagate units that seem to have even now thrown a monkey wrench into the works, so I'm not the voice of reason, more a careful chicken


Actually, if you look at the 4 Lights Flashing on Bolt thread, there are a number of us with the MQ03ABB300 drive who are getting failures now. Likely due to overheating, or maybe just that it is not designed to be used in such a high-intensity environment. I am most likely going to switch over to using an external 3.5" drive in an enclosure that is plugged directly into the SATA port inside the unit for best reliability.


----------



## chicagobrownblue

Do you have a Roamio? You can add larger drives to the Roamio and use it like an Network Attached Storage for your Tivo files. 

Or Weaknees.com has Roamio OTAs with up to 20 TB hard drives installed. 20TB is up from 8TB when I last checked.


----------



## Joe01880

Im thinking about grabbing a Bolt so just to be clear. To replace the Bolt HDD it is a simple swap out like the Roamio's. No reformatting or anything else, just R&R.
Also the 2.5 Toshiba HDD's are preferred to a Western Digital HDD?
Also is 3TB the largest i can go with out doing things to a HDD i am not qualified to do??

Thanks!!


----------



## dianebrat

Joe01880 said:


> Im thinking about grabbing a Bolt so just to be clear. To replace the Bolt HDD it is a simple swap out like the Roamio's. No reformatting or anything else, just R&R.
> Also the 2.5 Toshiba HDD's are preferred to a Western Digital HDD?
> Also is 3TB the largest i can go with out doing things to a HDD i am not qualified to do??


yes, although the case is a bit trickier but not a huge deal.
yes,
yes,


----------



## Mikeguy

Joe01880 said:


> Im thinking about grabbing a Bolt so just to be clear. To replace the Bolt HDD it is a simple swap out like the Roamio's. No reformatting or anything else, just R&R.
> Also the 2.5 Toshiba HDD's are preferred to a Western Digital HDD?
> Also is 3TB the largest i can go with out doing things to a HDD i am not qualified to do??
> 
> Thanks!!





dianebrat said:


> yes, although the case is a bit trickier but not a huge deal.
> yes,
> yes,


Although, it seems fairly simple and quick, using freeware software available here, to prep. a larger replacement drive. MFS Reformatter (mfsr) Having said that, for ease, most people understandably seem to be doing 3TB or less.


----------



## Joe01880

Mikeguy said:


> Although, it seems fairly simple and quick, using freeware software available here, to prep. a larger replacement drive. Having said that, for ease, most people seem to be doing 3TB or less.


Thank you very much, the 3TB's I have put in my Roamio's have severed me well so I'll stick with that size and give the Toshiba drive a shot although I really don't care for Toshiba anything!

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


----------



## jcthorne

Don't know why folks would think the Toshiba would be better than the WD Blue that Tivo is using in its OEM units. I can say the WD Blue I just installed formatted and is working just fine in my brand new Bolt.


----------



## fcfc2

jcthorne said:


> Don't know why folks would think the Toshiba would be better than the WD Blue that Tivo is using in its OEM units. I can say the WD Blue I just installed formatted and is working just fine in my brand new Bolt.


It might have something to do with the fact that the 3TB WD Blue is rare and priced at about +2x more than the Toshiba drive but I have seen absolutely zero posts saying the Toshiba drives are better, other than yours.


----------



## Joe01880

jcthorne said:


> Don't know why folks would think the Toshiba would be better than the WD Blue that Tivo is using in its OEM units. I can say the WD Blue I just installed formatted and is working just fine in my brand new Bolt.


Could you please share the model of WD drive your using in the 3TB capacity.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


----------



## sfhub

Joe01880 said:


> Could you please share the model of WD drive your using in the 3TB capacity.


Based on past postings, he might be talking about the 2TB WD in the same model line.

New Seagate Bolt upgrade option


----------



## Joe01880

Ok, could someone please share with me the part number or exact model of the 3TB Toshiba HDD that's works with and plays nice with the Bolt 500 gig TiVo as I just pulled the trigger on it a few minutes ago.

Thank you in advance!

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


----------



## fcfc2

Joe01880 said:


> Ok, could someone please share with me the part number or exact model of the 3TB Toshiba HDD that's works with and plays nice with the Bolt 500 gig TiVo as I just pulled the trigger on it a few minutes ago.
> 
> Thank you in advance!
> 
> Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


Toshiba MQ03ABB300 3.0TB 2.5-inch 15.0mm SATA... at MacSales.com


----------



## dianebrat

Joe01880 said:


> Ok, could someone please share with me the part number or exact model of the 3TB Toshiba HDD that's works with and plays nice with the Bolt 500 gig TiVo as I just pulled the trigger on it a few minutes ago.


Toshiba MQ03ABB300 3.0TB 2.5-inch 15.0mm SATA... at MacSales.com


----------



## Joe01880

dianebrat said:


> Toshiba MQ03ABB300 3.0TB 2.5-inch 15.0mm SATA... at MacSales.com


Thank you!

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


----------



## dianebrat

dianebrat said:


> Toshiba MQ03ABB300 3.0TB 2.5-inch 15.0mm SATA... at MacSales.com





Joe01880 said:


> Thank you!


You'll hear some folks saying "but these fail too!" but the ratio has been so far below the rate the Seagates that it may just be statistical.


----------



## 1stLink

I'm researching expanding storage on my nearly 1 year old Bolt and I see some savvy folks here. Seems like a logical thread to ask: What about a SS drive? I would imagine that they would be cooler and more reliable as well as $$ Expensive. Opinions?
Thanks


----------



## dianebrat

1stLink said:


> I'm researching expanding storage on my nearly 1 year old Bolt and I see some savvy folks here. Seems like a logical thread to ask: What about a SS drive? I would imagine that they would be cooler and more reliable as well as $$ Expensive. Opinions?
> Thanks


Long running discussion, an SSD offers no significant advantages and since a Tivo constantly writes to the drive leads it down the path to EOL sooner
Search 'SSD Drive" on the assorted forums as a keyword for subject only, you'll find the prior discussions and many many pages of replies.


----------



## 1stLink

Thank you Diane... Saves me time


----------



## scandia101

The Toshiba MQ03ABB300 is also often listed as the Toshiba HDKFB06


----------



## aphoid

Why, oh why don’t they just release a Bolt-like model with internal 3.5" drive capabilities? Seems like they just hamstrung themselves with low capacities and little choice in drive models.


----------



## fis

dianebrat said:


> You'll hear some folks saying "but these fail too!" but the ratio has been so far below the rate the Seagates that it may just be statistical.


Perhaps I'm that statistical anomaly, but I installed the Toshiba 3TB MQ03ABB300 into a new Tivo Bolt 6 months ago, and it worked like a charm -- for exactly 6 months. Then one day last week all the lights on the Bolt started flashing and I couldn't watch TV. I swapped the original 500GB drive back in, and everything worked fine again, but I had to reset everything, and of course lost 6 months of recordings. Also FWIW my laptop could read the Toshiba drive fine. It was just the Bolt that stopped liking it. Reformatting and reinstalling the Toshiba didn't help. The Tivo is just rejecting it. I called Toshiba and they issued an RMA under warranty, but FYI they won't replace the drive. They'll just send me a VISA gift card reflecting what they assess as the current market value not to exceed the original purchase price (whatever that is). In other words, neither the drive nor the warranty is all it's cracked up to be. I don't know what's next. I may "downgrade" to the 2TB WD (and lose my recordings again with the swap).


----------



## aspexil

FWIW this is the 2TB Seagate hard drive I purchased the same day I ordered the 500G Tivo Bolt in Oct 2015 and knock on wood it has worked fine. Looks like it has gone up in price since then as I got it for $92.


----------



## Anon1

1stLink said:


> I'm researching expanding storage on my nearly 1 year old Bolt and I see some savvy folks here. Seems like a logical thread to ask: What about a SS drive? I would imagine that they would be cooler and more reliable as well as $$ Expensive. Opinions?
> Thanks


All of the above is true of a SSD. I installed one, and am happy so far. Quieter, cooler, faster, less electrical and vibrational noise. The sacrifices being cost, and hard drive space.


----------



## fis

Anon1 said:


> All of the above is true of a SSD. I installed one, and am happy so far. Quieter, cooler, faster, less electrical and vibrational noise. The sacrifices being cost, and hard drive space.


But some HDDs are specifically designed and rated to handle streaming video. Is this not also true for SSDs?


----------



## Anon1

fis said:


> But some HDDs are specifically designed and rated to handle streaming video. Is this not also true for SSDs?


SSDs aren't specifically designed for this, but a MLC SSD should theoretically last for 10+ years, with heavy read/write usage. With the error rate of HDDs, I would say it's a crapshoot whether one would last longer or shorter. If a SSD works, it should last accordingly with its read/write usage.


----------



## dianebrat

fis said:


> But some HDDs are specifically designed and rated to handle streaming video. Is this not also true for SSDs?


Tivo uses none of the advanced calls of the "AV rated drives" and there are no SSDs that support them so in that respect it's not applicable to Tivo use.


----------



## sfhub

Anon1 said:


> SSDs aren't specifically designed for this, but a MLC SSD should theoretically last for 10+ years, with heavy read/write usage. With the error rate of HDDs, I would say it's a crapshoot whether one would last longer or shorter. If a SSD works, it should last accordingly with its read/write usage.


10+ years in a desktop/laptop environment is different than a TiVo environment.

A 4-tuner Tivo buffering HD 24/7 is writing 200-300TB/yr

A 512GB or 1TB Samsung 850 Pro is rated at 300TBW.
A 2TB Samsung 850 Pro is rated at 450TBW.

The EVOs are probably 150TBW and 300TBW for those sizes.

This is assuming you have OS Trim support and you 10% overprovision your drives. I don't think TiVo would do any of those, definitely not the overprovision part.

If you use enterprise SSDs you can get them in 6,000+TBW ratings, but they will cost 5x what consumer SSDs cost.

IMO I don't think consumer SSDs are a good choice for TiVo.

Since you already installed, I would highly suggest you have aggressive standby enabled so it doesn't buffer LiveTV 24/7 as often.

Consumer SSDs don't usually fail gracefully at the end of their life, they just die.


----------



## fis

Thanks sfhub and all who've shared their experience. Very helpful. I am not a techie but one thing that's apparent is that people mistakenly think SSDs have an unlimited lifespan.

So in terms of HDDs, if one were _indifferent _in terms of capacity (2TB vs. 3 or 4+) or price (within reason, say under $200), or form factor (willing to go internal or connect an external enclosure via SATA), then is there a particular drive that most likely to have extended carefree performance in TiVo?


----------



## Joe01880

I'm not a tech repair person either. I watched the how to video on YouTube to upgrading the hard drive in a bolt, it's plug and play. The video is detailed enough to get the job but not so much that's it's too complicated for a beginner to do.
I also used the Toshiba 2.5 inch internal drive mentioned earlier in this thread. It was really no big deal at all.
Good luck!

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


----------



## fis

Agreed no big deal at all. A very easy swap. I was unfortunately burned by the Toshiba after just 6 months and just wondering if there's a 2TB drive or a 3.5" drive that would be more stable.


----------



## Joe01880

fis said:


> Agreed no big deal at all. A very easy swap. I was unfortunately burned by the Toshiba after just 6 months and just wondering if there's a 2TB drive or a 3.5" drive that would be more stable.


3.5" I do not think will fit inside a bolt. I don't like Toshiba either, I've been pissed since they stopped support for the A3 HDDVD player.
Statistically, the number of the hard drives sold or in use in laptops are staggering compared to complaints about failures. I've had a WD external drive fail on me.
For the price the Toshiba's are being sold at its really a no brainer to give one try. They come with a warranty but ya gotta do your own thing, best of luck to you what ever you decide..

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


----------



## Anon1

sfhub said:


> 10+ years in a desktop/laptop environment is different than a TiVo environment.
> 
> A 4-tuner Tivo buffering HD 24/7 is writing 200-300TB/yr
> 
> A 512GB or 1TB Samsung 850 Pro is rated at 300TBW.
> A 2TB Samsung 850 Pro is rated at 450TBW.
> 
> The EVOs are probably 150TBW and 300TBW for those sizes.
> 
> This is assuming you have OS Trim support and you 10% overprovision your drives. I don't think TiVo would do any of those, definitely not the overprovision part.
> 
> If you use enterprise SSDs you can get them in 6,000+TBW ratings, but they will cost 5x what consumer SSDs cost.
> 
> IMO I don't think consumer SSDs are a good choice for TiVo.
> 
> Since you already installed, I would highly suggest you have aggressive standby enabled so it doesn't buffer LiveTV 24/7 as often.
> 
> Consumer SSDs don't usually fail gracefully at the end of their life, they just die.


We are not talking about a desktop/laptop environment.

A Samsung 840 Pro 256GB drive was endurance stress tested, and wrote for over 2.4 PB. The SSD Endurance Experiment: They're all dead
The 840 Pro was warranted for 75 TB and 5 years, compared to the 850 Pro's 150 TB and 10 years. The 850 Pro is, as you stated, spec'd for 300 TBW for the 512 GB and 1 TB drives. http://www.samsung.com/global/busin...loads/DataSheet-Samsung_SSD_840_PRO_Rev12.pdf http://www.samsung.com/semiconducto...nt/Samsung_SSD_850_PRO_Data_Sheet_rev_2_0.pdf
Even not accounting for the likely greater TBW lifespan of a larger SSD, the 512GB and larger 850 Pros should still theoretically last 8-12 years, based on your yearly TBW estimates for a 4-tuner TiVo.
Will your HDD last that long? Most likely it's a crapshoot, and it won't be dictated by TBW, but the drive/hardware. I know the people that used the 4TB+ drives from the external Seagates only lasted around 5 years, at most. At least three of the recommended 3TB Toshibas have failed in under a year.


----------



## sfhub

Anon1 said:


> A Samsung 840 Pro 256GB drive was endurance stress tested, and wrote for over 2.4 PB. The SSD Endurance Experiment: They're all dead


This test is structured as let me write as much as I can to the drive until it completely dies and I don't really care about the data, just doing it for an article.

You are welcome to go with whichever part of the death curve you want, but for many people, when they care about the data, the important time for replacement is not when the drive completely dies, but when the reallocated sectors start going up.

Once the sectors start failing it is playing with luck whether the error correction can recover the data or not.


----------



## Joe01880

Anon1 said:


> We are not talking about a desktop/laptop environment.
> 
> A Samsung 840 Pro 256GB drive was endurance stress tested, and wrote for over 2.4 PB. The SSD Endurance Experiment: They're all dead
> The 840 Pro was warranted for 75 TB and 5 years, compared to the 850 Pro's 150 TB and 10 years. The 850 Pro is, as you stated, spec'd for 300 TBW for the 512 GB and 1 TB drives. http://www.samsung.com/global/busin...loads/DataSheet-Samsung_SSD_840_PRO_Rev12.pdf http://www.samsung.com/semiconducto...nt/Samsung_SSD_850_PRO_Data_Sheet_rev_2_0.pdf
> Even not accounting for the likely greater TBW lifespan of a larger SSD, the 512GB and larger 850 Pros should still theoretically last 8-12 years, based on your yearly TBW estimates for a 4-tuner TiVo.
> Will your HDD last that long? Most likely it's a crapshoot, and it won't be dictated by TBW, but the drive/hardware. I know the people that used the 4TB+ drives from the external Seagates only lasted around 5 years, at most. At least three of the recommended 3TB Toshibas have failed in under a year.


3 HDD's you have owned, people you know have owned or HDD's you have read about?
I got my 2.5 TB Toshiba HDD at a good price, It's going strong. The only bad drive I have ever had was in a TiVo was WD external drive "My DVR Expander" 1 year and a few months after I started using it. I lost all my recordings but in my mind I keep it real, it's only tv. Life will go on just fine if I loose recordings from my TiVo.
When this Hydra thing comes around I'm gonna give it a try on my Bolt, the one with the Toshiba drive. If I don't like it I'll revert back losing recordings again, I'll live so if the Toshiba HDD dies in 6 months getting a cash card refund will be better than a new same type drive. I too will drop down to the 2TB WD drive and move on...

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


----------



## Anon1

Joe01880 said:


> 3 HDD's you have owned, people you know have owned or HDD's you have read about?
> I got my 2.5 TB Toshiba HDD at a good price, It's going strong. The only bad drive I have ever had was in a TiVo was WD external drive "My DVR Expander" 1 year and a few months after I started using it. I lost all my recordings but in my mind I keep it real, it's only tv. Life will go on just fine if I loose recordings from my TiVo.
> When this Hydra thing comes around I'm gonna give it a try on my Bolt, the one with the Toshiba drive. If I don't like it I'll revert back losing recordings again, I'll live so if the Toshiba HDD dies in 6 months getting a cash card refund will be better than a new same type drive. I too will drop down to the 2TB WD drive and move on...
> 
> Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


Read about, but all related to TiVo Bolt usage. I am not a glutton for punishment. Life does go on, but it's an annoyance.


----------



## fis

Joe01880 said:


> 3.5" I do not think will fit inside a bolt.


Not inside, I know. But some have run the SATA cable direct to a drive sitting outside the Bolt, either leaving the case open or cutting a hole for the cable. Mine is inside a cabinet, so I would have no problem doing this and leaving the case open, if it was reliable.


----------



## Joe01880

If the majority of failure are in TiVo it must surely be related to how hot these things run compared to other TiVo ie Premieres, Roamio' s and earlier models..
It will be interesting to see how much adding a laptop fan will help.
It also explains why these ugly bumpy looking Bolts have humps, so they can try to cool themselves

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


----------



## mrfixit454

On a new bolt ota, should you set it up on the account first with the 1T drive before making the swap? Or does it not matter? I have a 3T drive ready to go that I had bought for my roamio but see now that I need a 2.5 inch for the bolt.


----------



## Mikeguy

mrfixit454 said:


> On a new bolt ota, should you set it up on the account first with the 1T drive before making the swap? Or does it not matter? I have a 3T drive ready to go that I had bought for my roamio but see now that I need a 2.5 inch for the bolt.


People sometimes will recommend that, to make sure that the box is working well to begin with--in case a return is needed.


----------



## mrfixit454

ok, I will set it up first with stock drive. Though now learning some features not compatible with my Premier and Roamio. Trying to find out if I can at least watch shows between all 3 DVRs with 2 on TE3 and 1 on TE4.


----------



## pfiagra

mrfixit454 said:


> ok, I will set it up first with stock drive. Though now learning some features not compatible with my Premier and Roamio. Trying to find out if I can at least watch shows between all 3 DVRs with 2 on TE3 and 1 on TE4.


Yes, you can watch shows between DVRs on the same network and account no matter if they are on TE3 or TE4. If your DVR is running TE3, the other boxes will show at the very bottom of your My Shows list. If your DVR is running TE4, the other boxes will show under the Devices folder in your My Shows list.


----------



## mrfixit454

This is great info and good news. Thank you


----------

