# Why does everyone seem to hate the Premiere?



## Vect0r (Nov 2, 2010)

I guess I don't really get it. I have had a S2DT for about 5 years and just decided to add a Premiere after a month with comcast's so-called 'dvr'. The comcast dvr was slow, horrible looking UI, and it had to switch to its own on-demand like station in order to play recoded shows.

Our S2DT has opperated flawlessly over the last 5 years so we decided to go for the upgrade. The first month with the Premiere has been a breath of fresh air! Clean and quick UI, loads of features, and a sexy looking black box on our entertainment center (instead of a dented, beat up, ugly looking comcast box).

The first month of operation has been per typical Tivo style, flawless. No restarts or any hardware or software issues. An extra 3rd or 4th tuner would have been nice, but being able to transfer shows between the two boxes it is pretty much the same as having 4 tuners. 

I suppose only time will tell if the Premiere will cause any problems, but I have faith that it wont and am proud to have lifetime service on both my boxes 

TL;DR: S2DT rocks, continues to rock. Despite seeing a lot of complaints about the Premiere I've had none and continue to love it and the Tivo service.


----------



## DaveWhittle (Jul 25, 2002)

I think the haters came from S3 TiVos and expected more. There was a marketing campaign saying to "rethink what you expect from a DVR", or something like that. Also, the Premiere had a really rough launch with very buggy software, and some people continue to have problems.

However, those coming from pre-S3 TiVos, and especially non-TiVo DVRs, seem to be mostly satisfied with the Premiere now that software is stable for most users. I know I am.


----------



## Vect0r (Nov 2, 2010)

I skipped the S3 generation because I did not have or want HD television until prices came down and more channels were added. So I can't speak for having any experience with the S3.

As with most new technology, there are usually software issues that plague the 'early-adopters'. Thats why there are updates. Very few new devices work flawlessly from the first shipment. Many times there are updates before the device is even officially released.

I didn't look here before I decided to purchase my Premiere, because I had no doubt that I would continue to enjoy such an excellent product. However, had I decided to look around and see what other users were saying, I may have decided to not buy one. I hope this is not the case for other people who are looking for more information on making a decision to upgrade to a Premiere or stick with their cable company dvr.


----------



## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

Vect0r said:


> As with most new technology, there are usually software issues that plague the 'early-adopters'. Thats why there are updates. Very few new devices work flawlessly from the first shipment. Many times there are updates before the device is even officially released.


We are not talking about "new" technology. Tivo has been around for more than a decade. Most of here realize that software can be buggy and have been more than patient waiting for "updates." We are still waiting after 7 MONTHS! How long should I have to wait to use the HD interface that was promised? How long should I have to wait for both of my units to stop freezing? How long should I have to wait for the machine to stop lagging even when I perform simple tasks? How long should I have to wait until I can forget about having to restart my unit every few days?

Is Tivo going to wait for their payment? I don't think so. They will continue billing me for an unfinished buggy machine that isn't what was promised. Tivo should be ashamed. This is the most embarrassing product to date and Tivo will eventually get pushed right out of the market as Cable Company DVR's quickly improve or some company like Google steals all of their market share.


----------



## Vect0r (Nov 2, 2010)

aadam101 said:


> We are not talking about "new" technology. Tivo has been around for more than a decade. Most of here realize that software can be buggy and have been more than patient waiting for "updates." We are still waiting after 7 MONTHS!


I do agree that 7 months without addressing some of these is not acceptable. I guess my problem is that I do not/have not experienced any of these issues. No freezing, no lagging, no apparent reason to need to restart it.

As with any other forums, you are more likely to read people's complaints than good experiences. But having not had to deal with any of these problems, am I in the seemingly small majority of people who got a 'good' box?

Still new to this community so I am not sure of people's overall experiences with the Premiere.


----------



## curiousgeorge (Nov 28, 2002)

Vect0r said:


> I do agree that 7 months without addressing some of these is not acceptable. I guess my problem is that I do not/have not experienced any of these issues. No freezing, no lagging, no apparent reason to need to restart it.
> 
> As with any other forums, you are more likely to read people's complaints than good experiences. But having not had to deal with any of these problems, am I in the seemingly small majority of people who got a 'good' box?
> 
> Still new to this community so I am not sure of people's overall experiences with the Premiere.


100% of Premieres cannot use Parental Controls in the HD UI. That's not an issue of "good" or "bad" boxes, it's an issue of TiVo misleading people that were able to use Parental Controls on previous TiVos just fine and expected to be able to do that on the new one as well. Try to enable parental controls, you'll see what I mean.


----------



## Vect0r (Nov 2, 2010)

curiousgeorge said:


> 100% of Premieres cannot use Parental Controls in the HD UI. That's not an issue of "good" or "bad" boxes, it's an issue of TiVo misleading people that were able to use Parental Controls on previous TiVos just fine and expected to be able to do that on the new one as well. Try to enable parental controls, you'll see what I mean.


I agree that the Parental Controls are necessary for some people. Not required in my situation thankfully  This is something that Tivo should have to disclose to people who are going to buy the Premiere. Since it doesn't seem like that is the case, hopefully that means that if/when the next update is available that will be one of the fixes.


----------



## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

I preordered my Premiere. When I got mine 4 days after they started shipping them out The HDUI was very slow. When I pressed for the next in the now playing list I could go to the bathroom and take a piss. The green circle would still be running with the same page showed. With the 14.4 and 14.5 The HDUI got faster but I still use the SDUI because the HDUI is still slow and it does lock up using certain apps. 
When Tivo was marking the premiere They advertized a HDUI and faster speed. For some like me and others we can not use the HDUI. The only truth for me is the transfer speed is faster.


----------



## Vect0r (Nov 2, 2010)

Somewhat off topic, but sort of relevant. I still have the opportunity to purchase the Extended Warranty for my Premiere. Not having a single issue with my S2DT I originally decided against this. But, would anyone consider this a good investment?


----------



## curiousgeorge (Nov 28, 2002)

Vect0r said:


> Somewhat off topic, but sort of relevant. I still have the opportunity to purchase the Extended Warranty for my Premiere. Not having a single issue with my S2DT I originally decided against this. But, would anyone consider this a good investment?


Tough call. Squaretrade has a 3 year warranty for about $20 after coupon. That's pretty attractive. I have never bought the TiVo warranties because unless the main board dies, you can fix almost everything else yourself. However, for $20, it's very tempting just not to have the hassle.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

A lot of the heat on Tivo is because the Premiere was kind of too little, too late.

They went with a marketing slogan about how inventing the DVR was "just the beginning," and what they produced was a buggy and half-complete product that is almost functionally identical to their 4-year-old product. The few features that are actually new are either hardly worth mention or haven't materialized yet.

But the sentiment has actually been growing for a couple of years. It didn't start with the Premiere. The uncompelling sameness of the TP just seemed to exemplify how Tivo has been too slow to fix old problems and keep up with alternatives.

For new customers or those with S2 or S1 boxes, the Premiere is a decent box. Many of those with S3 and TivoHD hardware that have been looking for something worthwhile to upgrade to are left still waiting, if they don't go with other alternatives altogether.


----------



## WebHobbit (Jan 9, 2005)

I've used all generations of TiVos (had a THD rather than an S3 though). I just got a Premiere XL. We've had it for about 1 week now. So far no problems whatsoever (and we use the HDUI). I'm certainly not "bragging" though as I don't want to "jinx" it but we are very happy with it. Only thing we changed so far from default was:

1) Turned off the annoying video window
2) set ads to LESS on the Discovery bar


----------



## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Vect0r said:


> Somewhat off topic, but sort of relevant. I still have the opportunity to purchase the Extended Warranty for my Premiere. Not having a single issue with my S2DT I originally decided against this. But, would anyone consider this a good investment?


Whether you should or not is your decision.
Keep in mind that the ext. warranty is a one-shot deal.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Vect0r said:


> As with most new technology, there are usually software issues that plague the 'early-adopters'. Thats why there are updates. Very few new devices work flawlessly from the first shipment. Many times there are updates before the device is even officially released.


So did you post this from the Rally to restore Sanity? The reason so may people "appear" to hate on the premiere is that so few reasonable people bother to take the time to post like you have.  Thus the forum fills with issues and problems but is severely skewed and not representative of real world experiences.

I tend not to buy extended warranties on TiVo DVRs but then I am comfortable replacing the hard drive or power supply myself if need be.


----------



## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

Vect0r said:


> I guess I don't really get it.


That's because you didn't have a TiVo HD or S3. If you had, then your expectations would have been far higher. Especially considering TiVo's marketing the Premiere as if it was something light years ahead, when it isn't.

I have had a Premiere for a few months and it has never crashed nor froze nor rebooted. I don't "hate" the Premiere, but I am still not happy with it- the HDUI is far too slow for me, the Netflix is far too slow and primitive, and it really has very few useful new features (for me). It is an "OK" DVR, and better than most cable DVR's, but it is disappointing.


----------



## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

ferrumpneuma said:


> Interesting tone for a positive thread about the premiere.


The topic is somewhat of an open invitation for the (TiVo) bashers...


----------



## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

i love my TPXL


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

orangeboy said:


> The topic is somewhat of an open invitation for the (TiVo) bashers...


And the folks that have legit issues and/or gripes with the Premiere, not Tivo as a whole. Of which there are many, for obvious reasons.


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

BEcause the HDUI is sluggish and Tivo is falling behind the times. That's why we hate the Premiere.

Actually I don't hate it. I'm just disappointed it isn't snappy as before. IT's slow and lacks responsiveness. 

I'm also disappointed Tivo has become as stagnant as they have. 

I'm disappointed the extra features don't work as well as they do on the Apple TV, or 360 or .... 

I'm disappointed that the DVR experience has been refined so little. A small example, why doesn't my Tivo let me record a show, particularly a sporting event, even if its clipped by another show by 15 or 20 or 30 minutes etc???? 

Yes I understand some of the market realities. Tivo is going down the tubes. They've lost subscribers every year since about the time I came on-board 5 years ago or so. MUch of it do to the control of the set box technology cable and satellite companies have.

But doesn't make it any easier on consumers. Tivo is still asking people off the street to pay $700 for a new PRemiere with lifetime.

It's a last call for Tivo. You know its over when I can purchase a $100 media streaming box and watch a boatload of 70s, 80, 90s and even early 2000s movies and tv shows for $9/month. And that same device lets me stream my music, photos and video and rent newer TV shows and movies. It does it all much better too. Hell it's over for the cable channel model as well.

Or look at the $200 Xbox 360 and the ESPN app they have now (if you pay for Xbox Live.) Watch all the eSPN3 content on your TV screen. Jump into live events or events on-demand. Bookmark your favorite sports. See upcoming events. The future of TV is here now in your living room. 

Tivo has left the building. RIP. 

OK premature obituary. But you know they write those long before the subject goes away. Be prepared I guess.


----------



## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

I don't own one but it appears to me to be the best DVR and it is also a great deal. The complaint that it isn't reinventing the DVR are correct, it is an improvement over the previous model which I do own and I am very happy with. The few remaining bugs are unfortunate and I will be following TiVo's response and fixes before purchasing one.


----------



## DBLClick (Aug 20, 2007)

I own a TPXL and I love it, after turning off all the flash features that it can't support. I can not feel that we are the beta testers, who pay for privilege.


----------



## windsurfdog (May 1, 2009)

trip1eX said:


> That's why we hate the Premiere.


All Premiere haters please feel free to list yours on ebay and find a more suitable DVR to meet your needs.

Enough of the whining...


----------



## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

windsurfdog said:


> All Premiere haters please feel free to list yours on ebay and find a more suitable DVR to meet your needs.
> 
> Enough of the whining...


It's not that easy. Many of us have contracts. Why shouldn't we demand what we paid (and continue to pay) for? Tivo has made many misleading marketing claims about this product. I bought my first Tivo more than a decade ago. I expect more from the "leader" in the DVR industry.

Tivo has the ability to make this right. However, I am not sure they want to.


----------



## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

aadam101 said:


> Tivo has the ability to make this right. However, I am not sure they want to.


What exactly leads you to believe either of those statements are true?


----------



## vurbano (Apr 20, 2004)

I do have to say the HD interface is an embarrassment. I guess they forgot to finish it? since the submenus all go back to the SD screens? What a joke. That interface is slow and incomplete. The only reason I bought one was for faster file transfer to PC. seems like a steep price to pay for that.


----------



## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

orangeboy said:


> What exactly leads you to believe either of those statements are true?


Ummm....software can always be improved or in Tivo's case FINISHED.

It's been 7 months. They have only made very minor improvements. If they WANTED to fix these issues, they would have done it.


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Quote:
Originally Posted by trip1eX 
That's why we hate the Premiere.


windsurfdog said:


> All Premiere haters please feel free to list yours on ebay and find a more suitable DVR to meet your needs.
> 
> Enough of the whining...


HOw about enough of quoting the first line of posts without reading the rest?

..because you might have liked my next line 

Why didn't you quote that one?


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

aadam101 said:


> Tivo has made many misleading marketing claims about this product.


I call BS on that. They had the launch thing which was stupidly overhyped with the tagline "The DVR was just the begining" but it had truth in it that the "new stuff" was not about DVR functions but search and faster time to market on apps.

so what misleading marketing claims can you actually specify?


----------



## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

aadam101 said:


> Ummm....software can always be improved or in Tivo's case FINISHED.


Of course software can be improved but what does that have anything to do with TiVo's ABILITY to do so?



aadam101 said:


> It's been 7 months. They have only made very minor improvements. If they WANTED to fix these issues, they would have done it.


It seems to me that your statement goes to support the point that perhaps TiVo doesn't have the ability to achieve great improvement in a short period of time.

No sir, it's not a good idea to speak of what TiVo can or cannot do, or of what TiVo's intentions are, unless you have something to back it up. So far, you failed to provide anything other than your own speculation.


----------



## GymmyH (Jan 12, 2007)

I'm liking my new Premiere. Only had it a week, but so far it's working out to be a versatile 1 box solution for my needs.


----------



## Joe01880 (Feb 8, 2009)

With all the bad things i have read about the Premiere i finally got to play with one today at Bad Buy.
I thought the HDUI looked really nice and it worked just fine, screens changed within a second and the search feature worked good too, all this with video playing in the window. It even seemed a little faster than my TiVo HD. Does this mean that the Bad Buy employee's didnt go through the entire stock to get one that works..no but it doesnt mean they all suck either, it also doesnt mean that given there are very few differences (to date) between the Premiere and the THD that im going to run out and buy one! I will also say that i did NOT look at the parental control features of the Premiere, dont have kids..so i dont care but if its not working like people are saying, you might care.


----------



## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

orangeboy said:


> Of course software can be improved but what does that have anything to do with TiVo's ABILITY to do so?


That isn't my problem. My other devices in my house work just fine and as advertised. Had they mentioned the following I wouldn't have bought a premiere.

1. Unit needs to be restated every couple of days
2. Netflix queue can only hold XX amount of titles in order to work properly
3. HD UI cannot be used with parental controls
4. HD UI is sluggish and will lock up yur unit.



orangeboy said:


> It seems to me that your statement goes to support the point that perhaps TiVo doesn't have the ability to achieve great improvement in a short period of time.


Short period of time? It's been 7 months and we have only minor updates. My iPod apps (and OS) are updated and improved constantly. Tivo doesn't have the ability to do the same?



orangeboy said:


> No sir, it's not a good idea to speak of what TiVo can or cannot do, or of what TiVo's intentions are, unless you have something to back it up. So far, you failed to provide anything other than your own speculation.


It's not at all speculation. It's the facts over the last 7 months. Tivo hasn't been quick enough to fix the problems of the Premiere.


----------



## digammatoo (Oct 31, 2010)

I read alot of things that people say are bad about the Premier. But I am sure when I open mine up tonight and install it for the first time, it will beat the socks off of the set top box from CableOne. Hell my Series 1 TiVo beats the set top box and it doesn't do HD.


----------



## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

DaveWhittle said:


> I think the haters came from S3 TiVos and expected more. There was a marketing campaign saying to "rethink what you expect from a DVR", or something like that.


I think this is spot on... The premiere was over-hyped, in particular the HDUI which is incomplete and still (even after many months) experiencing problems. It's like going out to the theater to watch a movie you've been eagerly anticipating for months only to be underwhelmed and unimpressed. Even a good movie can disappoint if the expectation is too high.

There's also the inexplicable failure of Tivo to complete the HDUI and deliver timely software releases. For a company that wants to focus on software, they're doing an incredibly poor job of it. Some delay is understandable, but at this point we're approaching the absurd.


----------



## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I call BS on that. They had the launch thing which was stupidly overhyped with the tagline "The DVR was just the begining" but it had truth in it that the "new stuff" was not about DVR functions but search and faster time to market on apps.
> 
> so what misleading marketing claims can you actually specify?


Here is one of the marketing claims from the Tivo website:

_TiVo Premiere's reinvented, visually stunning HD interface gives you the tools to search, explore, browse and discover like never beforeon both TV and the web. It's now faster, easier and more intuitive than ever to find more of what you love. And a new multi-column format delivers more information per screen, so all get to all your entertainment faster._

"Reinvented".........really? It's only a couple of screens! The HD interface is not usable in my house at all. I need the parental controls to be turned on. The few times I have switched over to check out the HD interface both of my units have locked up. When they did work they were incredibly slow. I am a very patient person. 7 MONTHS is unacceptable.


----------



## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

smbaker said:


> It's like going out to the theater to watch a movie you've been eagerly anticipating for months only to be underwhelmed and unimpressed.


You are exactly right. What happens to those movies? Sequels don't get made......this will be Tivo's fate.


----------



## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

aadam101 said:


> You are exactly right. What happens to those movies? Sequels don't get made......this will be Tivo's fate.


To an extent it's about moderating expectation. If I'd been an early adopter and expected a complete and functional HDUI, I'd be screaming bloody murder right now. Fortunately, I waited and knew what I was getting into, and my Premiere has actually been a mostly positive experience since it exceeded my (low) expectations.

As not only a Tivo customer since 1999 (Philips S1 original box) but also a shareholder, I'm deeply concerned about how no forward progress is being made on the flagship product. If the reports in the other threads are correct and the HDUI is considered "complete" by Tivo and no more work is planned, then I think the company is in big trouble.


----------



## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

Your words:


aadam101 said:


> Tivo has the ability to make this right. However, I am not sure they want to.


I'm asking you to prove TiVo has the ability.
I'm asking you to prove what TiVo's intentions are.

Unless you are the Director of Engineering at TiVo and want to vouch for Engineering's abilities based on your experience working with them *AND* you are the Director of Quality Assurance (or Research and Development?) at TiVo that makes the decisions about what should take precedence (bug fix, feature implementation, etc.,), you're just a guy off the street spouting speculation with nothing to back it up.

My guess is you're the latter and not the former. I'm done with this.


----------



## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

orangeboy said:


> Your words:
> 
> I'm asking you to prove TiVo has the ability.
> I'm asking you to prove what TiVo's intentions are.


Can you prove that they don't have the ability to fix THEIR OWN product? I don't need to know the direct of engineering to know that these problems can be fixed someway, somehow. If Tivo doesn't have the right people then it should be a priority to go and find the right people for the job.

As far as their intentions, I have no idea. To me, it feels like they are trying to sink the company. The Premiere is by far the worst product they have ever released. They are supposed to be leaders in the DVR industry but they are becoming a joke. Based on the posts on this very board, I am not the only one who feels this way.

They clearly don't give a damn anymore. It took me a couple of days to get my free Netflix subscription because Tivo's website didn't work. This board proved that the problems had been going on for over a year and people are still having problems with it as of last week. Does Tivo have the ability to make a simple web page work? If they don't then they are clearly in the wrong business.

Tivo brings back memories of AOL......oh wait it's Aol now.


----------



## dsa1971 (Feb 10, 2008)

No problems with my premiere. Upgraded from TiVo HD just for the fun. Not a huge difference of course. Little sluggish at 1st but it has gotten better. Other TiVo HD just died so getting a premiere now. IMO, TiVo really needs to ramp up their streaming content from the Internet. I have Hulu+ on my ps3 (I thought I heard it's coming to TiVo ) and other software that allows me to stream lots of video from many sources to my ps3. I would love to see TiVo do that. TiVo needs to get things moving a little quicker


----------



## PedjaR (Jan 4, 2010)

aadam101 said:


> ... as Cable Company DVR's quickly improve ....


That's a good one 

You probably have not used Time Warner DVRs in the last several years.


----------



## ltxi (Feb 14, 2010)

I don't hate the Premiere. I think it's a semi-perfectly adequate, HD follow-up to the S2 as long as you ignore all the HDUI crap. I do wish TiVo would stop screwing around with the software updates that confuse my MRV connections and just let it be.


----------



## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

orangeboy said:


> I'm asking you to prove TiVo has the ability.


Assuming they have money or the ability to raise money (i.e. loan), then they have this ability. It's a computer, you can program it to do virtually anything you like within it's capabilities. If they don't have staff that can do it, then hire people. This argument seems silly. Of course it can be fixed.

Now the second part of your argument slightly more merit, we have no idea whether or not Tivo wants to fix the box. We're not mind readers, so we don't know. It'd be somewhat self-defeating for them to desire to purposely market a broken device. Are you suggesting there's some long strategy here we're not aware of that involves sabotaging the product?

I think it's more likely that the executives are incompetent and are insulating themselves from the end-users. They're either unaware the product is broken, or they don't care. It wouldn't be the first company taken down by arrogance.


----------



## Joe01880 (Feb 8, 2009)

smbaker said:


> To an extent it's about moderating expectation. If I'd been an early adopter and expected a complete and functional HDUI, I'd be screaming bloody murder right now.


and rightly so, TiVo's website and comercials are NOT saying the Premiere is working half assed, they openly admit one prcessor has to be turned off to get it to work properly but yet they do not advertise that on their website or on TV, i wonder how many they would sell if they did?


----------



## WebHobbit (Jan 9, 2005)

What I don't understand is why doesn't some TiVo rep officially make a statement on this very forum on all these Premiere issues raised? I know this isn't an Official TiVo website but they DO link it up on their site (I know I seen it someplace over there). It would be nice if they would give us an answer on the "are you going to finish the menus" question at least.


----------



## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

WebHobbit said:


> What I don't understand is why doesn't some TiVo rep officially make a statement on this very forum on all these Premiere issues raised? I know this isn't an Official TiVo website but they DO link it up on their site (I know I seen it someplace over there). It would be nice if they would give us an answer on the "are you going to finish the menus" question at least.


Their used to be many reps who were very active on this site. They seem to be less and less active these days. Probably because they don't have any good news......if something was being done to address the issues they would probably tell us about it to stop all the complaining.

I used to be a huge Tivo fanboy and turned several people onto it. I would never dare to recommend Tivo to anyone now. They would hate me for it.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

WebHobbit said:


> What I don't understand is why doesn't some TiVo rep officially make a statement on this very forum on all these Premiere issues raised? I know this isn't an Official TiVo website but they DO link it up on their site (I know I seen it someplace over there). It would be nice if they would give us an answer on the "are you going to finish the menus" question at least.


Therein lies one of the problem with the TCF. There are a lot of smart people here. In Tivo's absence, some elected themselves leaders and have "answers" to everything, and some just challenge counter-opinions out of habit.

Tivo says nothing/does nothing about issues regarding their products, and so the bad emotions just brew indefinitely while the self-elected dismiss you as a troll for tarnishing their sanctuary with discussion about product and company flaws. Especially, god forbid, if they're mentioned more than once.

The Tivo folks that mostly now only lurk could be extremely instrumental and helpful in squashing this and turning TCF around by being ahead of the curb and not letting these folks unofficially speak for them, but they aren't for any number of reasons now. it would be great to have them again.


----------



## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Therein lies one of the problem with the TCF. There are a lot of smart people here. In Tivo's absence, some elected themselves leaders and have "answers" to everything, and some just challenge counter-opinions out of habit.
> 
> Tivo says nothing/does nothing about issues regarding their products, and so the bad emotions just brew indefinitely while the self-elected dismiss you as a troll for tarnishing their sanctuary with discussion about product and company flaws. Especially, god forbid, if they're mentioned more than once.
> 
> The Tivo folks that mostly now only lurk could be extremely instrumental and helpful in squashing this and turning TCF around by being ahead of the curb and not letting these folks unofficially speak for them, but they aren't for any number of reasons now. it would be great to have them again.


I agree. I remember when practically every thread had a reply from someone at Tivo. Now I rarely see them.


----------



## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

smbaker said:


> Assuming they have money or the ability to raise money (i.e. loan), then they have this ability. It's a computer, you can program it to do virtually anything you like within it's capabilities. If they don't have staff that can do it, then hire people. This argument seems silly. Of course it can be fixed.


TiVo's long list of open job postings has been up for awhile now. I don't think it's about not having the money to hire.


----------



## yuki-nagato (Nov 2, 2010)

aadam101 said:


> Their used to be many reps who were very active on this site. They seem to be less and less active these days. Probably because they don't have any good news......if something was being done to address the issues they would probably tell us about it to stop all the complaining.
> 
> I used to be a huge Tivo fanboy and turned several people onto it. I would never dare to recommend Tivo to anyone now. They would hate me for it.


There are probably several techs on the site, they just won't tell you they are.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

aadam101 said:


> Here is one of the marketing claims from the Tivo website:
> 
> _TiVo Premiere's reinvented, visually stunning HD interface gives you the tools to search, explore, browse and discover like never beforeon both TV and the web. It's now faster, easier and more intuitive than ever to find more of what you love. And a new multi-column format delivers more information per screen, so all get to all your entertainment faster._
> 
> "Reinvented".........really? It's only a couple of screens! The HD interface is not usable in my house at all. I need the parental controls to be turned on. The few times I have switched over to check out the HD interface both of my units have locked up. When they did work they were incredibly slow. I am a very patient person. 7 MONTHS is unacceptable.


OK - you have a bum unit. Other people posting in the forum have bum units as well. It happens.

Still the marketing statement is just the typical hype words versus some technical and precise description. The only misleading statements have been made by you on trying to say that is misleading. EG reinvented does not equal 'fully ported over with all features'


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

aadam101 said:


> Their used to be many reps who were very active on this site. They seem to be less and less active these days. Probably because they don't have any good news......if something was being done to address the issues they would probably tell us about it to stop all the complaining.


they did post hee for quite some time. At first people were mindful that as employees there were things they could not publicly say. There was reasonableness and decorum.

Then insanity hit the board and everyone decided that their specific problem was happening to every TiVo ever made and it had to be fixed now!
The person who could tell us what was on the timeline was TiVoPony - he used to have a webcam from his office here even. Now he just gets ambushed with off topic to the thread crap if he does try and help here.
We have TiVoJerry who does some good specific troubleshooting help but he stays on that narrow topic to avoid being dragged into the crud as well.


----------



## cluemerchant (Aug 31, 2010)

FWIW, I've had my Premiere for two months now. I was annoyed by the slow HDUI when I first got it, but this seems to be mostly resolved by the 14.6 update. Never had any crashes or hangs, and the Green Ring of Boredom has only shown up a few times, and not at all since it got 14.6.

We upgraded from a Series 2, and I love having two tuners, and I love - love - the picture quality, even on standard-def programs.

Our major complaint is with the remote. It seems to be much more directional than the old one, and the range is much shorter. I've got an extra S2 remote somewhere in the house, and I'm tempted to dig it out and just use it instead. We never use the fancy colored buttons anyway.


----------



## yuki-nagato (Nov 2, 2010)

cluemerchant said:


> Our major complaint is with the remote. It seems to be much more directional than the old one, and the range is much shorter. I've got an extra S2 remote somewhere in the house, and I'm tempted to dig it out and just use it instead. We never use the fancy colored buttons anyway.


dont forget that the 1/2 switch was removed for some reason as well...


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

cluemerchant said:


> FWIW, I've had my Premiere for two months now. I was annoyed by the slow HDUI when I first got it, but this seems to be mostly resolved by the 14.6 update. Never had any crashes or hangs, and the Green Ring of Boredom has only shown up a few times, and not at all since it got 14.6.
> 
> We upgraded from a Series 2, and I love having two tuners, and I love - love - the picture quality, even on standard-def programs.
> 
> Our major complaint is with the remote. It seems to be much more directional than the old one, and the range is much shorter. I've got an extra S2 remote somewhere in the house, and I'm tempted to dig it out and just use it instead. We never use the fancy colored buttons anyway.


All my remotes are the opposite. Whether at home or at my girlfriends I can point the Premiere remotes at any position and the Premieres will respond. I can even point it on the floor behind the couch and the Premieres will still respond. 
Which is nice since I don't have to worry about pointing it in the direction of the boxes.

This was also the case with my S3 remotes as well as my Harmony Ones with the Premieres.


----------



## harry99 (Aug 19, 2010)

Signal strength causing reboots on one cable access (THD works fine) and no reception on some channels at all on another cable access (S2 works fine) are the only problems I ran across with the Premiere. Nevertheless, once I cleared up my original problems with THDs (got rid of the expanders and put new 1TB drives in both), I returned my Premiere last week.

Don't know why Premiere needs to have better signal strength than the S2 or THD, but didn't see any good reason to keep it once I got the THDs working. Maybe the next generation Tivo will have some functions I really want.

And my wife likes the THD interface better anyway.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

harry99 said:


> Signal strength causing reboots on one cable access (THD works fine) and no reception on some channels at all on another cable access (S2 works fine) are the only problems I ran across with the Premiere. Nevertheless, once I cleared up my original problems with THDs (got rid of the expanders and put new 1TB drives in both), I returned my Premiere last week.
> 
> Don't know why Premiere needs to have better signal strength than the S2 or THD, but didn't see any good reason to keep it once I got the THDs working. Maybe the next generation Tivo will have some functions I really want.
> 
> And my wife likes the THD interface better anyway.


In SD mode, the Premiere has the same interface as the TiVoHD, only faster.

But personally I can't stand using the SD interface any more when I'm using my GFs S3 boxes.


----------



## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> they did post hee for quite some time. At first people were mindful that as employees there were things they could not publicly say. There was reasonableness and decorum.
> 
> Then insanity hit the board and everyone decided that their specific problem was happening to every TiVo ever made and it had to be fixed now!
> The person who could tell us what was on the timeline was TiVoPony - he used to have a webcam from his office here even. Now he just gets ambushed with off topic to the thread crap if he does try and help here.
> We have TiVoJerry who does some good specific troubleshooting help but he stays on that narrow topic to avoid being dragged into the crud as well.


I don't blame them for staying away. I am sure they are well aware of the issues surrounding the Premiere and it is smart for them not to comment since none of it seems to be on anyone's radar to be fixed. I am sure the reasons why these things are not fixed are due to people well above Pony and Jerry.


----------



## ltxi (Feb 14, 2010)

aaronwt said:


> In SD mode, the Premiere has the same interface as the TiVoHD, only faster.
> 
> But personally I can't stand using the SD interface any more when I'm using my GFs S3 boxes.


Not arguing your point or preference....not at all....but I don't really understand it. For me, the SD interface is actually preferable. It does what I want and need it to do, reliably and without distracting special effects.


----------



## ned4spd8874 (Apr 18, 2009)

My first TiVo was a Series 3 HD and the compared to that, the Premiere is a major step down in my opinion. Sure, the main screen is nicer and it has more storage space. But those are the only two positives. It's much, much slower and unresponsive than I expected. And it also doesn't support 1080p on my TV even though they both have on the box "full 1080p HD"! I regret my decision, but unfortunately, TiVo wouldn't back up their statements that they will return the unit within 30 days if you are unhappy.


----------



## yuki-nagato (Nov 2, 2010)

ned4spd8874 said:


> My first TiVo was a Series 3 HD and the compared to that, the Premiere is a major step down in my opinion. Sure, the main screen is nicer and it has more storage space. But those are the only two positives. It's much, much slower and unresponsive than I expected. And it also doesn't support 1080p on my TV even though they both have on the box "full 1080p HD"! I regret my decision, but unfortunately, TiVo wouldn't back up their statements that they will return the unit within 30 days if you are unhappy.


so what did tivo say when you called them up and wanted a refund? any department at tivo can go through with the refund not just "customer service" unless of course you called in after 30 days in which case, you're mostly screwed unless you called in previously w/ a case #.


----------



## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

ltxi said:


> Not arguing your point or preference....not at all....but I don't really understand it. For me, the SD interface is actually preferable. It does what I want and need it to do, reliably and without distracting special effects.


I agree. I like the SD interface anyway, and it is fast on the Premiere. If I had *my* preference, it would be to just change the SD interface to a higher resolution so it is just the same interface with more space.


----------



## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

ned4spd8874 said:


> And it also doesn't support 1080p on my TV even though they both have on the box "full 1080p HD"! I regret my decision, but unfortunately, TiVo wouldn't back up their statements that they will return the unit within 30 days if you are unhappy.


1080p plays fine on my Premiere and TV.


----------



## plazman30 (Jan 23, 2005)

crxssi said:


> I agree. I like the SD interface anyway, and it is fast on the Premiere. If I had *my* preference, it would be to just change the SD interface to a higher resolution so it is just the same interface with more space.


The SD interface is still light years ahead of anything cable and satellite offers. If they just brought those fonts up to at least 720p, I'd be happy.

I have the HD interface on now. I may switch back to SD for a week and see how I do.

Andy


----------



## sharkitus (Nov 17, 2010)

I still like Tivo and I find the Premiere almost acceptable as it hasnt frozen on me yet. BUT.................... Why the hell is it so damn slow! I used the original Tivos with Direct TV ( I have 3 of them) and a series 2 and none of them are as pokie slow as this thing. It will definetly teach you patience waiting for the screens to refresh, I am hoping there is an update pending in our future to correct this. Otherwise its fine and works as good as the others.


----------



## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

When you guys are talking about an "SD" interface, do you actually mean the same interface as from the older Tivos? Because the interface on the Series 3/HD is in HD. If you can revert to that on the Premier and it just works, that's good to hear.

I'm a little worried with thing's I've heard about the Premier though...I mean I don't care if it does anything new, but I obviously want it to be as fast and stable as a Tivo HD.

Right now I've got an S2 and an S3 (HD), and don't have any immediate plans to change that, but if anything in the S2 dies I'd probably replace it with a Premiere...if it's as rock solid as the S2/S3 are.

Regarding extra features...well, I wouldn't mind a working Netflix program or Hulu or whatever, but I don't much care one way or the other. I mean this was purchased as a DVR, and if that's "all" I really want it to do-being able to flawlessly record and playback and transfer shows to my PC as I've been doing for five years. I've got 90 bajillion other devices that would let me stream stuff, but I really don't care about or use that...90&#37; of the time when I watch something it's from my Tivo. 10% it's from a DVD or Blu Ray I've rented or bought, so...


----------



## plazman30 (Jan 23, 2005)

The Premiere SD interface is the same old interface from the series 2 Tivo. We do not get the Series 3 interface, which is basically the Series 2 interface in high def.

Andy


----------



## mabbo6 (Nov 10, 2010)

My first month with the Premiere was an absolute disaster. After having spent years as a loyal TiVo user, I found the new HD interface really disappointing. Way too slow. I appreciate the TiVo team trying to do new things, but it really hasn't come together and it's only half built. They have to finish the work soon, or it will become a big problem for them.

Then I switched from the HD interface to the SD interface. Now I am happy again. I don't really see any innovation, but at least I am back to the old interface which works!


----------



## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

Puppy76 said:


> When you guys are talking about an "SD" interface, do you actually mean the same interface as from the older Tivos?


Yes



> Because the interface on the Series 3/HD is in HD.


No it is not. It is the same interface as on the series 2. Layout, fonts, amount of text displayed, etc, are all the same. They might push a 720p signal on the newer units, but that is like watching Star Trek Original (480i) on an HDTV, and calling it "Star Trek HD"... it isn't... it is SD source material.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

IMHO you will find the TP or TPXL using v14.6 software a good unit for recording your HDTV or SDTV programs, that is the main use i have for it. One can use the SD or HD menu and your recorded program plays the same. I could not use the TP when it was first released as it was hanging up too much, but now (with v14.6) it does my family's job without any hangups and with a faster MRV. I no longer hate the unit, so you can take the word *everybody* out of your title.


----------



## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

crxssi said:


> Yes


Okay, thanks for explaining that, as I assumed it meant it was actually displaying an SD interface...when it's just a name for the new interface apparently!



> No it is not. It is the same interface as on the series 2. Layout, fonts, amount of text displayed, etc, are all the same. They might push a 720p signal on the newer units, but that is like watching Star Trek Original (480i) on an HDTV, and calling it "Star Trek HD"... it isn't... it is SD source material.


Oh, no, it's different from that. The interface is HD on the Series 3 units (I mean if you're outputting at an HD resolution obviously). It's basically the same general interface as was used on the S2s, but it's definitely in HD, so this whole calling the old interface "SD" and the new one "HD" thing is really a misnomer, I suppose started by Tivo marketing?

At any rate I like the old interface. I haven't used a Premier, but at least in screen shots it seems overly, pointlessly busy. I was going to reserve judgment until actually using it, but I'm happy to hear you can just revert, since I can't think of anything wrong with the old interface.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

It is a scaled up SD interface which is certainly not HD.

The Premiere is the only TiVo that has an interface that is rendered at an HD resolution.

I just wish the entire UI was HD. That is the only thing I don't like about my Premieres. That I still have to deal with some of the SD interfaces. Otherwise they have easily been the best TiVos I've owned in nine years of using TiVos.


----------



## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> It is a scaled up SD interface which is certainly not HD.


No it's not scaled up. It's very clearly HD. I think you're confusing that it's the same interface (basically...it's actually been tweaked some) with the the resolution it's displayed at.



> The Premiere is the only TiVo that has an interface that is rendered at an HD resolution.


No it's not, all Series 3 Tivos do as well.


----------



## chazas (Jan 18, 2007)

plazman30 said:


> The Premiere SD interface is the same old interface from the series 2 Tivo. We do not get the Series 3 interface, which is basically the Series 2 interface in high def.


The Premiere "SD" interface is exactly the same as the S3 interface. Both are in 720p.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

chazas said:


> The Premiere "SD" interface is exactly the same as the S3 interface. Both are in 720p.


I was under the impression it was rendered in SD and upconverted to 720P. if it's actually rendered in 720P then it looks pretty bad for an HD rendered interface.

The interface on the Premiere with the HD UI is much crisper and clearer which is usually the case with a UI that is rendered in HD.


----------



## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Do you have it set to the TV's native resolution? The TV I use for...err...TV is 720p, and I have my Tivo HD set for 720p, and everything looks really good. 

I mean the interface isn't the fanciest, but it works well for me. I've gotten to try a Comcast DVR this year, and...wow...astonishingly, hilariously bad. Tivo had better stick around forever


----------



## lujan (May 24, 2010)

chazas said:


> The Premiere "SD" interface is exactly the same as the S3 interface. Both are in 720p.


720p is considered HD so it can't be 720p. It must be 480i or at most 480p.


----------



## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

lujan said:


> 720p is considered HD so it can't be 720p. It must be 480i or at most 480p.


No, it's 720p or 1080i or whatever you select for the output (so 720p in my case).

The name "HD" isn't being used correctly to describe this new interface. It should just be called the "new Tivo interface" or whatever. The difference isn't the resolution, it's the interface.

It would be like calling the "NXE" (New Xbox Experience) interface HD, implying that the old one wasn't...when in fact they both are, they're just different.


----------



## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

aaronwt said:


> I was under the impression it was rendered in SD and upconverted to 720P. if it's actually rendered in 720P then it looks pretty bad for an HD rendered interface.
> 
> The interface on the Premiere with the HD UI is much crisper and clearer which is usually the case with a UI that is rendered in HD.


(This response is directed to several comments, not just aaronwt)

It doesn't matter if it was rendered as 720P or 480i or 1080i, tweaked, or anything else. Nor how it is upscaled. What is displayed has the same number of rows and columns of text as on the TiVoHD and the series 3 and series 2 and it operates identically. It is just called the SDUI because it *looks* (and acts) the same (for all practical purposes) as the old standard-definition interface. It might be slightly crisper or not, and the font might be slightly different or not. But the functionality is the same.

What we were all saying is that it would be nice if there were a THIRD user interface option, which is the same, old SDUI functionality, just at a higher resolution- more rows and columns of text due to higher resolution. I don't need these huge fonts on my modern, 55" 1080p LCD TV. This would make a lot of people happy, because it would act and operate the same way as the old interface, but be able to display much more information... meaning less scrolling. It would have the advantage of being probably nearly as fast as the SDUI, display more USEFUL information than the old interface or the HDUI, and without having to learn anything new, and without the banner/bar thing at the top. Alas, there is not a chance in hell of that ever happening.


----------



## plazman30 (Jan 23, 2005)

crxssi said:


> (This response is directed to several comments, not just aaronwt)
> 
> It doesn't matter if it was rendered as 720P or 480i or 1080i, tweaked, or anything else. Nor how it is upscaled. What is displayed has the same number of rows and columns of text as on the TiVoHD and the series 3 and series 2 and it operates identically. It is just called the SDUI because it *looks* (and acts) the same (for all practical purposes) as the old standard-definition interface. It might be slightly crisper or not, and the font might be slightly different or not. But the functionality is the same.
> 
> What we were all saying is that it would be nice if there were a THIRD user interface option, which is the same, old SDUI functionality, just at a higher resolution- more rows and columns of text due to higher resolution. I don't need these huge fonts on my modern, 55" 1080p LCD TV. This would make a lot of people happy, because it would act and operate the same way as the old interface, but be able to display much more information... meaning less scrolling. It would have the advantage of being probably nearly as fast as the SDUI, display more USEFUL information than the old interface or the HDUI, and without having to learn anything new, and without the banner/bar thing at the top. Alas, there is not a chance in hell of that ever happening.


I want the new search in this interface also. The new search is way better than the search in the SDUI.


----------



## HellFish (Jan 28, 2007)

Puppy76 said:


> Oh, no, it's different from that. The interface is HD on the Series 3 units (I mean if you're outputting at an HD resolution obviously). It's basically the same general interface as was used on the S2s, but it's definitely in HD, so this whole calling the old interface "SD" and the new one "HD" thing is really a misnomer, I suppose started by Tivo marketing?
> 
> At any rate I like the old interface.


In the Premiere menu, it refers to the classic UI as "SD Menu" and the new menu as "HD Menu" So that's why people call it that. If you have the Tivo set to output in 720p, it will output everything in 720p. This doesn't mean that the episode of Sienfeld I'll be watching tonight is really in HD though.



plazman30 said:


> I want the new search in this interface also. The new search is way better than the search in the SDUI.


Yesterday, I would have agreed. But today, if found that the new interface isn't 100% accurate ( link ). Apparently it doesn't index everything from Netflix, and someone in this thread is having trouble to easily locate A Charlie Brown Thanksgiving that will be airing on ABC soon. Test it out for yourself, and see if you can find Dexter S02.


----------



## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

HellFish said:


> In the Premiere menu, it refers to the classic UI as "SD Menu" and the new menu as "HD Menu" So that's why people call it that. If you have the Tivo set to output in 720p, it will output everything in 720p. This doesn't mean that the episode of Sienfeld I'll be watching tonight is really in HD though.


No, but the Series 3 interface IS HD. What Tivo's calling it is a complete misnomer, at best.



crxssi said:


> What we were all saying is that it would be nice if there were a THIRD user interface option, which is the same, old SDUI functionality, just at a higher resolution- more rows and columns of text due to higher resolution. I don't need these huge fonts on my modern, 55" 1080p LCD TV. This would make a lot of people happy, because it would act and operate the same way as the old interface, but be able to display much more information... meaning less scrolling. It would have the advantage of being probably nearly as fast as the SDUI, display more USEFUL information than the old interface or the HDUI, and without having to learn anything new, and without the banner/bar thing at the top. Alas, there is not a chance in hell of that ever happening.


Personally I wouldn't want it denser than it is now. The current interface IMO is a really nice "10-foot" couch interface. I wouldn't even be able to use it if it were any smaller with my setup. Though if it were just an option to make text smaller for people who wanted that I'd be fine with it. Doesn't seem like that would be hard to do.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

plazman30 said:


> I want the new search in this interface also. The new search is way better than the search in the SDUI.


Using the HDUI the search does not give a choice of what channel you want to record a program on if it is on more that one channel. IE CBS nightly news is on both channel 3 (SD) and channel 233 (HD) if i search for CBS news I only get one option, record in HD I can't see how to change that to channel 3. No problem with the SDUI as both channels are listed after the search.


----------



## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

Puppy76 said:


> Personally I wouldn't want it denser than it is now. The current interface IMO is a really nice "10-foot" couch interface. I wouldn't even be able to use it if it were any smaller with my setup.


Then you either have bad vision or a small TV. For example, the SDUI has only 8 lines for the main scrolling menu. Those 8 lines were just fine 10 years ago on my 30" TV, but looks plain silly on my modern 55" 1080p LCD. That could easily be 12 or more and shouldn't detract at all. Currently, when one selects a program to look at, the smaller text on the lower right describing the date, time, channel, duration, episode, etc, is perfectly readable as something that could be used for the text size on the main screens.



> Though if it were just an option to make text smaller for people who wanted that I'd be fine with it. Doesn't seem like that would be hard to do.


That is essentially what I would want- let me choose from a few different sizes. "Large" could be what we have now. Add a "Medium" and "Small" option with 10 and 12 lines, or perhaps 12 and 16 lines. I have no idea if their interface is easily scalable. It likely isn't, since it is probably all hard-coded. And in that case, it would NOT be easy for them to do. Ironically, it probably is MUCH easier for them to change the sizes in the Flash/HDUI if that setup is much more modular and flexible (like I suspect it is).


----------



## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

crxssi said:


> For example, the SDUI has only 8 lines for the main scrolling menu. Those 8 lines were just fine 10 years ago on my 30" TV, but looks plain silly on my modern 55" 1080p LCD. That could easily be 12 or more and shouldn't detract at all.


Well like I said, for me it would. It needs to stay as it is. Though I'm fine if they offer an option for smaller text for people who want that.

And yeah, it might be easier to do in the Flash interface, although since it sounds like they're having issues with that... Still seems like it shouldn't be a HUGE deal to offer alternate font sizes if that's really a big deal to some people though.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

lessd said:


> Using the HDUI the search does not give a choice of what channel you want to record a program on if it is on more that one channel. IE CBS nightly news is on both channel 3 (SD) and channel 233 (HD) if i search for CBS news I only get one option, record in HD I can't see how to change that to channel 3. No problem with the SDUI as both channels are listed after the search.


You are doing it wrong then.

If you do the search, you will see one option. For example lets take Psych on USA. When you select Psych, you are presented with a two different ways to pick the channel.

The first is to select Get This Show. It will then take you to Get a Season Pass. The preview window with the show name and next episode displays the channel it will pick. If this is not the channel you want, you then select Options. Under Options you can change the channel before setting the season pass. The channels will be listed in the order of airings.

The second is to select Upcoming at which point you will be presented with the episodes and channels coming up. You then highlight the first episode you see on the channel you want and hit select. From there you can pick a season pass. It will also tell you if you are on the HD or non-HD channel.


----------



## elkhunter (Nov 18, 2010)

chazas said:


> The Premiere "SD" interface is exactly the same as the S3 interface. Both are in 720p.


With the video output format of my S3s set to native, the interface output is the following:
Resolution = 720p
Color Space = YCbCr 4:4:4
Pixel Depth = 8bit
Refresh Rate = 59.85Hz

This info was taken from the info screen of my Epson 8500UB projector, and from the information screen of my Denon 2311 AVR.


----------



## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Though that could be upcaling it...but it's not. I mean all you have to do to know that is look at it. I watch SD content on this Tivo. I have my S2 right next to it, etc. It's blatantly obvious the menus are HD, and it would be bizarre if Tivo hadn't made the interface HD. Obviously they even talked about redoing it at the time. (Besides that it's 16:9 instead of 4:3...although it can probably revert to 4:3.)


----------



## HFChristie (Nov 9, 2010)

Just to add my 2 cents, I was one of the first TiVo buyers (TiVo - I guess Series 1), and accepted the promotion a couple of years later to upgrade to a Series2 and transfer my lifetime. Nothing changed TV viewing as much as those units.

When they removed the IR transmitter (I think they did that on the S3, right?), however, I was extremely disappointed - and never seriously considered later models. The S1 and S2 were completely portable, Cable or Satellite. The new ones are all slaved to cable - which is becoming more and more the worse value for the money. That's also assuming that you can _get_ cable.

When I saw the promo in My TiVo for the Premier, the only thing that looked appealing was the online streaming - since you still were stuck with Cable. However, from what I can see here, the online streaming itself is slow -> a common problem on most of the Blue-Ray w/ NetFlix units I've checked out.

My S2 has been in operation for at least 8 years now, and I just upgraded to a 1TB drive. It's hard to justify an 800 purchase (with LTM) if you're still stuck with the cable and slow streaming.


----------



## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

HFChristie said:


> When they removed the IR transmitter (I think they did that on the S3, right?), however, I was extremely disappointed - and never seriously considered later models. The S1 and S2 were completely portable, Cable or Satellite. The new ones are all slaved to cable - which is becoming more and more the worse value for the money.


Well, there wasn't much point with the S3/HD to do that. HDTV content can't be transfered via analog recording. And current models are not "slaved" to cable. If you want to do nothing but OTA programming, they fully support that. If you are complaining about satellite, that isn't TiVo's fault- there is no standard/approved method for connecting to a satellite box to get and record HD content.


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

crxssi said:


> ... HDTV content can't be transfered via analog recording. ..


That is not true. TiVo could record from the component outputs from a satellite or cable STB which is analog and HD. Hauppauge! makes one now: http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html

TiVo could have chosen to build a Premiere without cable cards that had this ability it would have worked fine to record 2 OTA channels and one channel from a satellite or cable STB. Problem is it would have increased the cost and brought back IR Blasters. Given the limited market for such a DVR I am guessing TiVo just doesn't think it is worth the development costs.

Thanks,


----------



## WebHobbit (Jan 9, 2005)

And.....the transferred shows certainly wouldn't be HD anymore. Once you get an HDTV and start watching stuff in HD you won't want to watch ANY SD material anymore. Trust me. SD looks like the proverbial "ASS" in comparison -especially on an HDTV. Just looks AWFUL. I don't miss analog TV tech at all.

edit -and I see from your sig that you certainly do have HDTV -so you should know what I mean!


----------



## JPS10 (Nov 26, 2010)

atmuscarella said:


> That is not true. TiVo could record from the composite outputs from a satellite or cable STB which is analog and HD. Hauppauge! makes one now: http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html
> 
> Thanks,


This is not true either. Did you mean component?


----------



## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

atmuscarella said:


> That is not true. TiVo could record from the composite outputs from a satellite or cable STB which is analog and HD.


??? Composite is not HD. And component can not be recorded by a TiVo and never will due to legal stuff. With a powerful card and computer one COULD capture full analog 1080p, but the TiVo hardware is nowhere near powerful enough. And even component analog outputs are disappearing (or degraded) on many HD sources as the screws of DRM keep tightening.



> TiVo could have chosen to build a Premiere without cable cards that had this ability it would have worked fine to record 2 OTA channels and one channel from a satellite or cable STB.


They could have also built in a DVD drive to rip movies, or allow the user to transfer ANY program off the DVR, or allow capture of streaming Netflix/Amazon, but they don't. Why? Because TiVo would *never* get cooperation from cable companies and big media and/or would be sued out of existence.


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

crxssi said:


> ??? Composite is not HD. And component can not be recorded by a TiVo and never will due to legal stuff. With a powerful card and computer one COULD capture full analog 1080p, but the TiVo hardware is nowhere near powerful enough. And even component analog outputs are disappearing (or degraded) on many HD sources as the screws of DRM keep tightening.


Sorry meant component not composite wasn't paying close enough attention to what I was typing. The only place I have seen anything happening to component outputs is Blu-Ray players.



crxssi said:


> They could have also built in a DVD drive to rip movies, or allow the user to transfer ANY program off the DVR, or allow capture of streaming Netflix/Amazon, but they don't. Why? Because TiVo would *never* get cooperation from cable companies and big media and/or would be sued out of existence.


Now your just writing bull sh**. No one is suing Hauppauge! and TiVo would not have needed cooperation from cable or satellite companies to build a DVR that didn't use cable cards but recorded analog HD from component outputs - recording from component outputs has no more requirements than recording from any other analog output. HDMI and cable cards have special requirements because of licensing requirements that analog outputs are not subject to.

Of course I still believe there would not be a large enough market for TiVo to bother developing such a DVR so it will never happen.

Thanks,


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

WebHobbit said:


> And.....the transferred shows certainly wouldn't be HD anymore. Once you get an HDTV and start watching stuff in HD you won't want to watch ANY SD material anymore. Trust me. SD looks like the proverbial "ASS" in comparison -especially on an HDTV. Just looks AWFUL. I don't miss analog TV tech at all.
> 
> edit -and I see from your sig that you certainly do have HDTV -so you should know what I mean!


Sorry I typed composite when I should have typed component in my post. Analog component outputs on HD TiVos or HD satellite or cable STBs are HD. I have used the component outputs on my Series 3 TiVo and I can not really tell the difference from the component output and the HDMI output. There would be some loss if a HD TiVo could record from a HD STB's component outputs - but not much and it would still be HD.

And yes I agree for me to watch something in SD now it has to be really good.

Thanks,


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

JPS10 said:


> This is not true either. Did you mean component?


Yes - sorry, and the link is to a DVR that records in HD from component outputs.


----------



## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

AFAIK, the video chipset in an HD or Premiere TiVo is not capable of encoding HD. It can encode or decode SD, but can only decode HD. I think that at least part of the issue is the cost of chipsets that encode HD (particularly 1080).


----------



## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

atmuscarella said:


> Now your just writing bull sh**. No one is suing Hauppauge! and TiVo would not have needed cooperation from cable or satellite companies to build a DVR that didn't use cable cards but recorded analog HD from component outputs - recording from component outputs has no more requirements than recording from any other analog output.


I think you are underestimating the precarious nature of what TiVo has to deal with to "play nice" with cable systems as a supported, somewhat-main-stream device.


----------



## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

atmuscarella said:


> Yes - sorry, and the link is to a DVR that records in HD from component outputs.


In your own words: "Now your just writing bull sh**" (Not very nice, is it?)

The link is to a $200 capture/encoding device that grabs component HD and sends the data over USB to an MSWindows/Mac-only computer to store the data. It has no built-in ability to tune anything, record anything, store anything, play anything, no user interface, and no listings. Alone, it is not a DVR nor PVR, despite the marketing info.

To act like a TiVo: When combined with several hundreds of dollars of additional equipment and a listings subscription, and cable/sat box rental, and recording/playback/etc software, all that stuff combined could be considered a DVR/PVR in the TiVo/cable co-DVR box type arena.


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

crxssi said:


> In your own words: "Now your just writing bull sh**" (Not very nice, is it?)


I call hum like I see hum. Remember this stated when you stated:

"HDTV content can't be transfered via analog recording."​
Which I pointed out is not accurate. TiVo made a business decision to stop recording from analog feeds and to use cable cards to record HD cable feeds. I can give you many reasons why I believe it was correct business decision and I am not proposing they were wrong or should build a different DVR. However it does not change the fact that they could have continued to build a DVR that supported recording from Analog feeds and it could have record from HD Analog feeds. So when you also state:

"If you are complaining about satellite, that isn't TiVo's fault- there is no standard/approved method for connecting to a satellite box to get and record HD content."​
Again this is not accurate there is a solution just not one that TiVo felt was a viable one for TiVo to produce, so they did not produce it.

When HD satellite users say TiVo abandoned them - they are correct. I would put most of the blame on the FCC for not forcing satellite providers to open their systems but TiVo does have another choice - just one that likely does not make any business sense for TiVo.

Thanks,


----------



## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

Along the same lines- there is no requirement that TiVo honor the "no record" bit. Yet they still do it. Why is that?


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

crxssi said:


> Along the same lines- there is no requirement that TiVo honor the "no record" bit. Yet they still do it. Why is that?


Sorry I do not know the absolute facts but I believe it is a licensing issue because TiVo uses cable cards. I believe in order for a device to have cable cards they have to agree to follow a number of DMR type things including honoring any bit requirements.

TiVo is required to build a device that does comply with general copy right laws. Recording from analog outputs for personal use is not a copy right violation (this was settled back with VCR lawsuits). There are copy right restrictions on what a person can do with these recordings which is why TiVo secures all recordings. HDMI however is controlled by licensing like cable cards.

Perhaps someone who knows for sure about the following bit requirements can answer.

Thanks,


----------



## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

atmuscarella said:


> Sorry I do not know the absolute facts but I believe it is a licensing issue because TiVo uses cable cards. I believe in order for a device to have cable cards they have to agree to follow a number of DMR type things including honoring any bit requirements.


Like you, I would love to hear from someone who really knows. All we can do is speculate: Just as with the copy bit, I am *guessing* that analog HD recording would fall right in there too... Otherwise, there is NO WAY to honor a copy bit or stop recording of premium content (PPV/HBO/etc). Everything is so "secret".


----------



## pigonthewing (May 6, 2002)

Every time my TiVo Premiere gives me an unexpected SD menu, I am once again baffled by the fact TiVo thought it was acceptable to release such a half-finished product. Every single menu should presented uniformly, and the fact it's not is really just too unprofessional for words (well, except that one -unprofessional - and unacceptable, I guess, would be another).

So, why do I own one? Because I watch television over an antenna, and so there's really no other DVR option for me. This gets the job done, so alright. But, if I had a choice, I'd go back to either of the DVRs I had from Comcast or Dish Network in a heartbeat. Those actually look like finished products, not a work in progress. Unfortunately, those also come bundled with services that are far too expensive for my needs, namely cable or satellite television service. The DVRs themselves, though? Incomparably better produced products.

So, there; that's my answer to your question.


----------



## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

pigonthewing said:


> The DVRs themselves, though? Incomparably better produced products.
> 
> So, there; that's my answer to your question.


Cable DVRs incomparably better than the Premiere? Did I read that right?


----------



## pigonthewing (May 6, 2002)

daveak said:


> Cable DVRs incomparably better than the Premiere? Did I read that right?


Yup. However, in fairness, I should mention that it's been awhile since I've used a Cable DVR, although I don't recall them being all that different from the Dish Network DVR I used up until only a few months ago, and liked quite a bit. What they most had in common with each other, and different from TiVo, is that the menus all look the same, thereby putting them in an entirely different league.

The TiVo Premiere menus, very much on the other hand, look like something I would've made in school (I majored in computer graphics/animation) before I was ready to hand them in - and I really can't stress that last part enough.


----------



## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

I just purchased a Premiere and my issue is having used TiVos for 10 years the interface has almost gone backwards. 10 years in computer time is equal to several lifetimes and I'd think by now we could have a nice looking configurable HD interface.

The content is available for what I view... OTA, Netflix, Pandora and Videos (ripped DVDs) so it's a shame there isn't a slick interface to make it enjoyable to use.


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

pigonthewing said:


> Yup. However, in fairness, I should mention that it's been awhile since I've used a Cable DVR,


Well, there's your problem - a current cable DVR does not compare well to a Tivo. Is Tivo disappointing most of us now? Yes. But even so, are their DVRs better than cable's right now? Yes. Menus are not great on Tivo admittedly, but functionality is way better.

But that gap will close as long as Tivo keeps singing past the grave.


----------



## DAccardi (Oct 26, 2008)

My Humax DRT800 TiVo with DVD Burner owns the S3, HD and premiere IMO. It is still the best A/V investment i have ever made. That was the last great leap for TiVo. They have all been a disapointment to me after the DRT800 IMO.


----------



## BeeBee59 (Aug 10, 2005)

caddyroger said:


> I preordered my Premiere. When I got mine 4 days after they started shipping them out The HDUI was very slow. When I pressed for the next in the now playing list I could go to the bathroom and take a piss. The green circle would still be running with the same page showed. With the 14.4 and 14.5 The HDUI got faster but I still use the SDUI because the HDUI is still slow and it does lock up using certain apps.
> When Tivo was marking the premiere They advertized a HDUI and faster speed. For some like me and others we can not use the HDUI. The only truth for me is the transfer speed is faster.


What is sdui and hdui and where can I set it at in my premiere box


----------



## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

BeeBee59 said:


> What is sdui and hdui and where can I set it at in my premiere box


Tivo central=setting and messages= settings= display


----------



## Jason.Nina (Dec 11, 2010)

So ...

I am running Three TiVo's (One Series3 and Two HD). I prepaid 3 yrs on the Series3 and pay month to month on the HDs.

My 3 yr prepay runs up this month on the Series3. My bill will go up to $13, 10, and 10.

I have two upgrade offers for the Premiers. Should I wait?


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Jason.Nina said:


> So ...
> 
> I am running Three TiVo's (One Series3 and Two HD). I prepaid 3 yrs on the Series3 and pay month to month on the HDs.
> 
> ...


Depends on how you use your TiVos and what your future intentions are.


Due you use cable cards and would you save money by swapping out the Series 3?
Do you have enough hard drive space now?
Do you do allot of TiVo to TiVo transfers?
Any of your existing units have any problems?

I have a Series 3, a TiVo HD, & a Premiere all used for OTA and as far as I am concerned all 3 units work just fine and I would not replace the Series 3 or TiVo HD with another Premiere without some really good reason.

Now if you are talking buying lifetime for something then I would buy a new Premiere and add the lifetime to that instead of adding it to one of your older units, which I think would cost you $500 total if you have upgrade offers. The only way I would add lifetime to one of your older units is if they offered you the $99 lifetime option on your Series 3 that some people coming off the 3 year pre-paids have gotten.

Good Luck


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

BeeBee59 said:


> What is sdui and hdui and where can I set it at in my premiere box



SDUI = Standard Definition User Interface = Old User Interface
HDUI = High Definition User Interface = New User Interface
caddyroger gave you the location where you can switch between the 2. (Tivo central=setting and messages= settings= display)

Good Luck,


----------



## Ready4TiVo (Sep 16, 2004)

With no experience swapping drives, and a three-year-old TiVo Series3 HD unit - the one with the program title displayed when recording (which I like) - I decided to explore getting a new Premiere box. They were so cheap at Costco, cheaper than the cost of a new upgrade drive, and no uplift in the monthly fee, that I went for it. Was planning to set it up today, but now, after reading through this thread, I am wondering if I should bother...

Also, I am experiencing an issue with transferring programs using TiVo Transfer to my iMac. Can anyone send me a link to a thread to address this please? (I scheduled a couple of shows to transfer overnight to view while I am in a home office - and all of the HD shows are about 7 to 8 minutes short. I tried another, as a standalone, and even though the transfer says it's an hour, when I hit play the show is only 33 minutes. They are fine on the actual TiVo. Is there a size limitation per transfer?)


----------



## Jason.Nina (Dec 11, 2010)

atmuscarella said:


> Depends on how you use your TiVos and what your future intentions are.
> 
> 
> Due you use cable cards and would you save money by swapping out the Series 3?
> ...


Great response, thank you.

I am primarily OTA. I do get some basic analog cable that comes in free because I have high-speed cable Internet. But, we get our HD the old fashioned way ... rabbit ears!

I will DEFINITELY try to get the $99 lifetime on the Series3 ... it is my favorite TiVo. It has lots of space due to an after market external drive I built for it.

The space on the HDs are really not enough. But, they are not causing me any problems. The Series3 is the only one that causes me any problems. It likes to spontaneously reboot. We notice it about once a week.

Two-three times a week we transfer a program from one TiVo to another.


----------



## travisd (Feb 1, 2004)

I'm happy with my Premiere. Really didn't plan to upgrade to it, but we decided to buy our first HDTV one day, and quickly realized that using the HD cable box sucked, and we'd prefer to have Tivo for HD content to. So far it's been generally fine, and the Wife Acceptance Factor is extremely high which is one of the reasons it wins over the alernates. 

In our case, We "save" the $10/mo that Comcast wanted for an HD box - the cablecard is free. So in "just" 50 months, ($200 box, $300 lifetime) it'll be "free", right?


----------



## Jason.Nina (Dec 11, 2010)

Jason.Nina said:


> I will DEFINITELY try to get the $99 lifetime on the Series3 ... it is my favorite TiVo. It has lots of space due to an after market external drive I built for it.


Called tonight and received the $99 lifetime deal. Thanks!!


----------



## pigonthewing (May 6, 2002)

DAccardi said:


> My Humax DRT800 TiVo with DVD Burner owns the S3, HD and premiere IMO. It is still the best A/V investment i have ever made. That was the last great leap for TiVo. They have all been a disapointment to me after the DRT800 IMO.


Well, yeah, if all you want to watch and record is standard-def television, then sure, the Humax DVDR-TiVo is great. I still have mine as well.

I don't use it, however, because SD makes my eyes bleed.


----------

