# Bolt hard drive upgrade



## texasPI

I have looked at previous threads, but it seems hard drives recommended in the past are not so readily available.

Any current recommendations? I'm looking at maybe going with 2TB if possible.


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## shwru980r

texasPI said:


> I have looked at previous threads, but it seems hard drives recommended in the past are not so readily available.
> 
> Any current recommendations? I'm looking at maybe going with 2TB if possible.


I bought a 2TB WD20NPVX for my 500G Bolt Vox a few weeks ago on Ebay.


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## jlb

I chose to pay a little more and bought my drive direct from WD for the additional warranty coverage.....


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## Tony_T

WD New Blue 15mm Internal Hard Drive for TiVo Bolt/Server/mini-ITX/Desktop/Machine 2.5-inches Model WD20NPVZ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071NLR34Z/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_GQHBCbDA7GD6R


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## jlb

Tony_T said:


> WD New Blue 15mm Internal Hard Drive for TiVo Bolt/Server/mini-ITX/Desktop/Machine 2.5-inches Model WD20NPVZ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071NLR34Z/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_GQHBCbDA7GD6R


Thanks for posting that as I don't think the WD20NPVZ is to be found on WD's site anymore....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jccfin

What's the procedure for replacement these days on the Bolt? Is it just remove the old drive and pop in the new? Do we need to format the new drive? or do we still need to clone the old drive onto the new?


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## OrangeTurtle

If I were to replace the 500gb hdd with a 2tb model, any reason not to choose a seagate? Price is only $70- half of the Toshiba or WD mentioned in posts. Thoughts?

Seagate 2TB SATA Notebook Laptop 2.5" Hard Drive for Sony Playstation PS4, MacBook Pro B010CBASS0

There's also this for about $80. Have people tried these? Is it best to just stay with the main two models listed? Thanks in advance!

Western Digital WD 2TB 2.5" Playstation 4 Hard Drive (PS4) SATA III 6.0Gb/s 128MB Cache


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## randian

What's the difference between the NPVX and NPVZ? There have been complaints on another thread that the 4TB NPVZ won't work with TE4. Does the 2TB NPVZ have that problem?


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## Tony_T

jccfin said:


> What's the procedure for replacement these days on the Bolt? Is it just remove the old drive and pop in the new? Do we need to format the new drive? or do we still need to clone the old drive onto the new?


Just pop it in (for drives up to 3T)


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## Tony_T

OrangeTurtle said:


> If I were to replace the 500gb hdd with a 2tb model, any reason not to choose a seagate? Price is only $70- half of the Toshiba or WD mentioned in posts. Thoughts?
> 
> Seagate 2TB SATA Notebook Laptop 2.5" Hard Drive for Sony Playstation PS4, MacBook Pro B010CBASS0
> 
> There's also this for about $80. Have people tried these? Is it best to just stay with the main two models listed? Thanks in advance!
> 
> Western Digital WD 2TB 2.5" Playstation 4 Hard Drive (PS4) SATA III 6.0Gb/s 128MB Cache


Probably SMR, stick with PMR for media drives


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## Tony_T

randian said:


> What's the difference between the NPVX and NPVZ? There have been complaints on another thread that the 4TB NPVZ won't work with TE4. Does the 2TB NPVZ have that problem?


SMR vs PMR (maybe?) WD20NPVZ is working in my Bolt.


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## OrangeTurtle

OK. It is starting to make more sense- need the PMR not an SMR Hard drive. The recommended (2 or 3 tb) Toshiba from 3 years ago and the WD Blue from 3 years ago each cost around $140- I believe the price is higher because these are older and not in production, thus fewer available.

Can anyone point to one that is newer technology that would be cheaper? Looking for anything from 1tb-3tb. Thanks!


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## Tony_T

OrangeTurtle said:


> Can anyone point to one that is newer technology that would be cheaper? Looking for anything from 1tb-3tb. Thanks!


Not new, and not cheap, but the 2T WD20NPVZ linked above to Amazon ($140) looks like a good choice. (These are now hard to find, only 7 listed on Amazon. I picked up a spare on eBay a few months ago for $90 from a seller that had a batch of 24 that he was selling - just looked on eBay and none are listed)


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## OrangeTurtle

What do you think about this one? It's a RED drive (like what I have in my roamio, but this is a 2.5 form factor). It's around $75- only seems to come in a 1TB option (which is double the factory drive), but I've read that RED seem to be better than BLUE.

Has anyone tried this?

WD Red 1TB NAS Hard Disk Drive - 5400 RPM Class SATA 6 Gb/s 16MB Cache 9.5 MM 2.5 Inch - WD10JFCX


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## JoeKustra

See: Bolt Hard Drive Upgrade Choice


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## OrangeTurtle

Thanks- I have looked there before- while there is some good info, there is a ton of noise to sift through and I didn't see anyone speak to the WD RED 1TB drive. Looks like some have used larger ones though, so likely that would work. I have a 3tb Red in my roamio and that has been solid. The debate would be double my storage for $70 or spend $140 for 2-3TB.

Ideally I only want to open this up once, so I want to be sure of the drive I select. leaning towards the WD Red 1tb I previously mentioned- unless anyone has a good reason not to.


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## Tony_T

The link went right to a comment on the WD10JFCX 
Did you click it?

_"I have been using the WD10JFCX for about 6 months now with no issues. I let the TiVo go through the drive setup and guided setup. I have the older interface. (not hydra) I did not try to save any recordings or use the MSF tools. I just let TiVo do it all itself. The only thing I did do while it was open (not related to the hard disk) was to put a 100uF 25V capacitor across the fan power connector to eliminate the whine from the fan circuitry. I don't know if there are any long term effects to this, but for now it has eliminated the whine for me. The WD10JFCX and the WD10JUCT look to be the same drive with different firmware on them and are what some here recommend. One is specialized for a NAS and the other for audio/video. To me it was more what was available and for what price."_​


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## OrangeTurtle

Totally my bad! I clicked it, but immediately just scrolled to the top and started reading there. Completely missed this. 

Quite Sorry- thanks for the help!


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## el-such-n-such

texasPI said:


> I have looked at previous threads, but it seems hard drives recommended in the past are not so readily available.
> 
> Any current recommendations? I'm looking at maybe going with 2TB if possible.


IF you want to take the plunge, and go higher, this is what I'm running successfully for 4 mnths:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LZMUNGR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This is the first drive I've installed over the 3TB limit, I followed the posts about enlarging the filesystem after a test boot on the Bolt (like the procedure guides). I wanted to open this once and then not mess with it again.


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## tarzxf

el-such-n-such said:


> This is the first drive I've installed over the 3TB limit, I followed the posts about enlarging the filesystem after a test boot on the Bolt (like the procedure guides).


Where might these guides be? Jumped on the current sale, and looking at the price difference between 3-5TB 2.5" drives is making my eyes cross. Might just settle on the 4TB drive as the current 6-tuner Roamio is doing quite well with 3TB.


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## el-such-n-such

tarzxf said:


> Where might these guides be? Jumped on the current sale, and looking at the price difference between 3-5TB 2.5" drives is making my eyes cross. Might just settle on the 4TB drive as the current 6-tuner Roamio is doing quite well with 3TB.


I started here:
A Guide to Upgrading Your Tivo Bolt, Tivo Premiere, Tivo Roamio, Tivo Roamio OTA, Tivo HD, Tivo Series 3 or Tivo Series 2 (Easily upgrade your Tivo Bolt, Roamio or Premiere to 300 Hours+ HD Capacity) - Also includes instructions on how to fix a broken Tivo.

Bolt Hard Drive Upgrade Choice

After selecting and purchasing a drive, following the instructions in the first link to install it.

Then after testing in the Bolt, removed and connected to a PC to expand the drive past 3TB
MFS Reformatter (mfsr)

Its easier than it looks, and effort should be rewarded as long as you try to understand what you are doing, and don't rush past what you understand. Verify each step as best you can before moving on to the next. Good Journey.


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## V7Goose

DO NOT USE SEAGATE DRIVES IN A BOLT! At least that is my firm recommendation to anyone that wants to listen!

Just about everyone who has tried a Seagate 2.5" drive in a Bolt has seen a failure in less than a year. SMR drives do NOT work in a TiVo, at least not for long. I have not bothered to look closely at the drive you linked to above - it is just not worth my time - but it said Seagate on it, and that is enough.

This information has been documented in about 100 threads here about the problems with Seagate in Bolts. A wise person would not touch one unless they just wanted to experiment and did not care about the expected failure.


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## Tony_T

Tony_T said:


> Not new, and not cheap, but the 2T WD20NPVZ linked above to Amazon ($140) looks like a good choice. (These are now hard to find, *only 7 listed on Amazon*. I picked up a spare on eBay a few months ago for $90 from a seller that had a batch of 24 that he was selling - just looked on eBay and none are listed)


Only 2 left on Amazon


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## longrider

Tony_T said:


> Only 2 left on Amazon


I wonder if the amazon sellers are wondering why that drive is suddenly so popular? I did get one of them myself


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## Phil T

Out of stock now.


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## longrider

A different seller still has one: https://www.amazon.com/Internal-inches-Height-5400RPM-WD20NPVZ/dp/B013HNYVDI/


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## longrider

This made me smile, on my order page I had this:


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## Tony_T

longrider said:


> A different seller still has one: https://www.amazon.com/Internal-inches-Height-5400RPM-WD20NPVZ/dp/B013HNYVDI/


...and $50 more @ $190
I hope some of our guys here got the one @ $140


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## Tony_T

longrider said:


> This made me smile, on my order page I had this:
> View attachment 39426


Is that an SXPX shingled drive I see? Not a good drive for TiVo.
Go with a PMR drive, like the WD20NPVZ


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## longrider

Tony_T said:


> ...and $50 more @ $190
> I hope some of our guys here got the one @ $140


I did get one of the $140 ones yesterday


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## Tony_T

longrider said:


> I did get one of the $140 ones yesterday


Nice!


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## sgstech

Mouser Electronics has 28 of the Toshiba MQ03ABB200 drives. I believe this is the 2TB version of the MQ03ABB300 that has been mentioned frequently here. Cost for the 2TB drive is $112. The Toshiba 2TB drive may be of interest if the other models are getting hard to find.

MQ03ABB200


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## jccfin

Now that WD20NPVZ is getting more difficult to come by, anyone know if that drive is being used in some external hard drive configuration? It may even be cheaper like that. We'll just have to yank it out of the container.


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## SteveTV

jccfin said:


> Now that WD20NPVZ is getting more difficult to come by, anyone know if that drive is being used in some external hard drive configuration? It may even be cheaper like that. We'll just have to yank it out of the container.


I'm also curious why using the following isn't an option:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B079BQS5WQ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1


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## randian

SteveTV said:


> I'm also curious why using the following isn't an option:
> 
> https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B079BQS5WQ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1


It's an SMR drive.


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## SteveTV

randian said:


> It's an SMR drive.


How can you tell? Or rather, how can I ensure the drive I end up ordering is PMR?


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## randian

SteveTV said:


> How can you tell? Or rather, how can I ensure the drive I end up ordering is PMR?


The very large (128MB) cache is usually the giveaway.


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## steinbch

So I bought a refurb Bolt to replace my month-to-month Bolt+. I'm thinking that it might work out better in the end to swap the hard drives and see what I can get on eBay for the Bolt+ (with 6 tuners and 500GB). I'm assuming that the Bolt+ 3TB drives should be fine to just use in any Bolt, right?


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## Mikeguy

steinbch said:


> So I bought a refurb Bolt to replace my month-to-month Bolt+. I'm thinking that it might work out better in the end to swap the hard drives and see what I can get on eBay for the Bolt+ (with 6 tuners and 500GB). I'm assuming that the Bolt+ 3TB drives should be fine to just use in any Bolt, right?


I would assume so, and think that your approach is a good one--just an easier path.


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## Charlie Schroeder

New hear but not to TiVO. Looking to upgrade the drive on my Bolt and I went out and got a WD20SPZX. Now reading things here tells me this isn't going to work. Luckily I have 15 days to return it.


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## jccfin

It looks like the Amazon $140 deal for the WD20NPVZ is back in stock.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071NLR34Z


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## jlb

LOL.....it's listed as out of stock but look at this seller on Walmart's site.....









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JoeKustra

jlb said:


> LOL.....it's listed as out of stock but look at this seller on Walmart's site.....


I wonder what the review says?


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## jlb

JoeKustra said:


> I wonder what the review says?












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## ncbill

jlb said:


> LOL.....it's listed as out of stock but look at this seller on Walmart's site.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm happy to sell anyone the 3TB version (waiting to be installed in my 500GB Bolt) for half that price.


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## jlb

ncbill said:


> I'm happy to sell anyone the 3TB version (waiting to be installed in my 500GB Bolt) for half that price.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Brian Docili

Since Hard drives are always changing their model numbers, I thought I would add a 2020 example that worked.

First of all, like many of you, my viewing pattern has changed. At least 60% of shows I watch are on Netflix/Hulu/Prime/AppleTV+ and other streaming services. So, I did not feel that I needed a 3TB drive. 2 TB was more than enough for me. I don't have that many shows to record anymore. Frankly, since my Hulu plan does not have commercials and most of the shows on the major networks are available the next day, even the shows that I am recording on Tivo are somewhat unnecessary. Anyways, my Bolt is brand new. Tivo had a VERY good sale 3 weeks ago for $99 (lifetime service for $249) so I decided, why not? Stopped paying $8/month for my Cable box and $15/month for DVR service. This Tivo will pay for itself quite quickly.

I decided to do the upgrade of the HDD now, before I had a bunch of shows recorded. It is always painful later. I searched these forums and found a lot of recommendations for 2 primary drives. 1.) Toshiba 3TB. 2.) WD Blue. Both brands seem to have never model numbers than the recommended ones, so I had to try to find the closest thing I could find. I did not want a used drive and everyone seemed to say to stay away from Seagate.

Here is what I went with:
*Toshiba MQ03ABB200 2TB 5400RPM 16MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 2.5in (15mm) Mobile Hard Drive - 3*
*$60*
*https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08231HZPW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1*

There are different installation guides out there, but some are on the older models and some are not very clear. This is the one I recommend. This guy is VERY clear and every step is shown perfectly. I watched it once by itself and then just followed along. Super easy, took 10-15 minutes or so (wasn't watching the clock, but it was quick)






Anyways, it started right up and formatted the drive. It did change the data number on my cable card, so I needed Spectrum to re-activate it...but that was quick. I still don't have a Tuning adapter although I might get one just in case (they are free) but so far, so good. I packaged up my original 500gb drive back in magnetic packaging and lots of bubble wrap. If the new drive ever fails, I will have that to go back to. I hope this information was helpful for any new Bolt users. I know most of you have had your Bolt for years.


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## spiderpumpkin

jccfin said:


> It looks like the Amazon $140 deal for the WD20NPVZ is back in stock.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071NLR34Z


For that price I bought an 8TB Western Digital Easystore 3.5TB external drive, removed drive and use it with my Bolt Vox with SATA cable.


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## Brian Docili

spiderpumpkin said:


> For that price I bought an 8TB Western Digital Easystore 3.5TB external drive, removed drive and use it with my Bolt Vox with SATA cable.


I am confused by the 2 numbers. The WD Easystore is 8TB or 3.5 TB? Also, I thought the Bolt's limit was 3TB unless you used external tools to format it. How much of your drive is usable for you?


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## dianebrat

Brian Docili said:


> I am confused by the 2 numbers. The WD Easystore is 8TB or 3.5 TB? Also, I thought the Bolt's limit was 3TB unless you used external tools to format it. How much of your drive is usable for you?


They used the tools to reformat it, while not hard, it's also not easy. There's a whole cottage industry in the community that are using external high capacity 3.5" drives hooked to the internal SATA port.

You're on the right path, a 2TB Toshiba for $50 is a perfect upgrade from 500GB and it's a drop in replacement.


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## ej42137

Brian Docili said:


> I am confused by the 2 numbers. The WD Easystore is 8TB or 3.5 TB? Also, I thought the Bolt's limit was 3TB unless you used external tools to format it. How much of your drive is usable for you?


A reasonable person might conclude that "8TB 3.5 *inch* drive" is what OP meant, since 3.5 TB drives are not a thing. A less generous person than I might infer a certain disingenuousness in your post.


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## Brian Docili

ej42137 said:


> A reasonable person might conclude that "8TB 3.5 *inch* drive" is what OP meant, since 3.5 TB drives are not a thing. A less generous person than I might infer a certain disingenuousness in your post.


Seriously, I didn't put 2+2 together. I was not being disingenuous. I thought maybe one was an enclosure and one was a drive. I never thought that maybe they meant 3.5"


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## spiderpumpkin

Yes, I made a mistake typing that. I meant 3.5" drive. I guess I had TB on my mind when typing.


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## Royster

I'm having a real hard time finding 3th 2.5" drives to replace the one in my 3tb Bolt+. 3tb seems to only come in 3.5" form factor. And I'm finding lots of drives that people are warning away from up in the thread.

The *WD20SPZX* seems to be one of the problem drives.


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## shwru980r

Royster said:


> I'm having a real hard time finding 3th 2.5" drives to replace the one in my 3tb Bolt+. 3tb seems to only come in 3.5" form factor. And I'm finding lots of drives that people are warning away from up in the thread.
> 
> The *WD20SPZX* seems to be one of the problem drives.


I've been running this drive in my white bolt since July of 2017

Seagate 3TB Laptop HDD SATA 6Gb/s 128MB Cache 2.5-Inch Internal Hard Drive (ST3000LM016)

I've been running this drive in my Bolt Vox since February of 2019.

2TB WD20NPVX


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## Royster

shwru980r said:


> I've been running this drive in my white bolt since July of 2017
> 
> Seagate 3TB Laptop HDD SATA 6Gb/s 128MB Cache 2.5-Inch Internal Hard Drive (ST3000LM016)
> 
> I've been running this drive in my Bolt Vox since February of 2019.
> 
> 2TB WD20NPVX


The advice above seems to be to avoid Seagate and drives with large cache sizes. Opening those up greatly increases the options.


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## shwru980r

Royster said:


> The advice above seems to be to avoid Seagate and drives with large cache sizes. Opening those up greatly increases the options.


The Seagate drive I used was old stock and was returned because it was too thick to use in a laptop. I don't know if it was an SMR drive. They weren't very forthcoming about labeling SMR drives back then. Plus, since the drive was so thick, it might not be SMR.


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## Royster

So, a WD20SPZX (128MB cache) should be avoided because if the SPZ?

A Seagate ST2000LM007 (128mb cache) as well?

Seagate ST2000KM003 with only a 32Mb cache?

For some of these prices and uncertainty, I'm probably better off with a $300 weakness drive.

Or just junking this Bolt+ and giving up on TiVo afterb29 years.


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## shwru980r

Royster said:


> So, a WD20SPZX (128MB cache) should be avoided because if the SPZ?
> 
> A Seagate ST2000LM007 (128mb cache) as well?
> 
> Seagate ST2000KM003 with only a 32Mb cache?
> 
> For some of these prices and uncertainty, I'm probably better off with a $300 weakness drive.
> 
> Or just junking this Bolt+ and giving up on TiVo afterb29 years.


You could try a 2TB 2.5" drive in the bolt. I think there are more non SMR 2TB drives. Tivo abandoned 3TB drives in the new Edge model and use a 2TB drive.

I've been running this drive in my Bolt Vox since February of 2019.

2TB WD20NPVX


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## Royster

I found an old seagate which looks to be non-SMR. Wish me luck.


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## Royster

Well, I popped in a new drive and the 4 flashing lights came back on.


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## kpeters59

Is it in this list?:

List of drives that don't boot under TE4 21.x on Bolt

Did you try an alternate Power Supply?

-KP


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## uj80s

Once you connect the new HD, how long does it take the Bolt+ to format it? Hours?


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## kpeters59

My understanding is that it should only take a few minutes to reformat the new drive.

-KP


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## SC42

kpeters59 said:


> My understanding is that it should only take a few minutes to reformat the new drive.
> 
> -KP


Just finished installing the 2TB drive recommended in post #47 of this discussion into my Bolt. Easy replacement. About a half hour to go through The guided setup (slowly) and start watching.

EDIT - It looks like I lost the pairing between the cable card and the Bolt. The fun begins trying to get my provider (Optimum) to address this.

UPDATE - After about 8 calls to Optimum and TiVo, I was able to get an Optimum rep to bind my card. FYI - TiVo brings in Optimum's "Advanced Technical Department" reps to a 3-way call. They finally told me straight up that they cannot bind the card. It was a regular CSR at the 800 support number that did it. The strategy I used was to ask at the start of the conversation if the person I'm speaking with can "bind my cable card to my TiVo". If they say anything but "sure" or "no problem", hang up and call right back to speak with someone else.


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## gsutkin

What 3TB drive would you recommend today for a Bolt+?

I just got the 4 flashing lights. Not willing to upgrade to TE4.


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## tommage1

gsutkin said:


> What 3TB drive would you recommend today for a Bolt+?
> 
> I just got the 4 flashing lights. Not willing to upgrade to TE4.


CMR drives are recommended for Tivos, will work with both TE3 and TE4. There are no current model 2.5" 3TB CMR drives. There is an older model Toshiba 3TB CMR 2.5 drive but not easy to find and usually WAY overpriced. The 2TB model of that Toshiba is available at a great price right now, hit and miss when in or out of stock. Or if you go external there are lots of options but some work, buying parts etc.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07J27MBWD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Or if you can live with 1 TB the WD 2.5" Red or Red Plus WD10JFCX. It's a current model. With TE3 there are some SMR drives that may work, just not the best choice IMO. And some SMR that work with TE3 will not work with TE4 in case you ever want or have to switch. I personally like a drive that works with either.


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## gsutkin

When I search, I can't always tell if it's CMR or SMR. For example, this Seagate 3TB drive:

Seagate 3tb Laptop HDD SATA 6Gb/s 128MB Cache 2.5-inch 15 mm Height Internal Hard Drive - Google Shopping

Can you tell me how to tell the difference?

Thanks


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## ClearToLand

gsutkin said:


> Can you tell me how to tell the difference?


GOOGLE the model number, space, SMR


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## tommage1

gsutkin said:


> When I search, I can't always tell if it's CMR or SMR. For example, this Seagate 3TB drive:
> 
> Seagate 3tb Laptop HDD SATA 6Gb/s 128MB Cache 2.5-inch 15 mm Height Internal Hard Drive - Google Shopping
> 
> Can you tell me how to tell the difference?
> 
> Thanks


Well there is the rub, not always easy. This site is good, they list a LOT of drives so may take awhile to find the one you are checking.

The HDD Platter Capacity Database

As I said no CURRENT model 2.5" CMR drives over 2TB, maybe 1TB is limit. So if this a current model it will be SMR.

Edit, I checked, it is SMR.

*BarraCuda* (5400RPM, 128MB cache, SATA-600 interface, Advanced Format, Shingled Magnetic Recording, 15mm z-height)

ST3000LM024 3TB (4/8)


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## gsutkin

Thanks

Is the Toshiba MQ03ABB300 3TB a CMR drive?

Toshiba MQ03ABB300 New Bulk Pack

According to this, it uses PMR:

Toshiba Launches Industry's Largest Capacity 3TB 2.5-inch HDD

Gary


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## tommage1

gsutkin said:


> Thanks
> 
> Is the Toshiba MQ03ABB300 3TB a CMR drive?
> 
> Toshiba MQ03ABB300 New Bulk Pack
> 
> According to this, it uses PMR:
> 
> Toshiba Launches Industry's Largest Capacity 3TB 2.5-inch HDD
> 
> Gary


Yes, that is the 3TB discontinued model I mentioned in my first reply. The term PMR includes CMR and SMR now. So a drive listed as "PMR" could be SMR. Best to look for CMR. Old article (after all came out when the drive was released), it is CMR. Not a bad price for that model though way more than 3.5" CMR drive.

*MQ03ABBxxx* (5400RPM, 16MB cache, SATA-600 interface, Advanced Format, 15mm z-height)

The website I listed, it will say if a drive is SMR. If it does not say SMR (shingled magnetic recording) it should be CMR, won't say it specifically.


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## tommage1

gsutkin said:


> Thanks
> 
> Is the Toshiba MQ03ABB300 3TB a CMR drive?
> 
> Toshiba MQ03ABB300 New Bulk Pack
> 
> According to this, it uses PMR:
> 
> Toshiba Launches Industry's Largest Capacity 3TB 2.5-inch HDD
> 
> Gary


I see your retailer also has the MQ03ABB200 (2TB model of the same drive) new for $110. That is the one that I linked to at Amazon for $58.70? But the one at Amazon is refurbished so if cost not critical best to get new, your $142 for 3TB better than $110 for 2TB IMO.


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## gsutkin

Here is the 2TB version of the Toshiba: MQ04ABD200 from Amazon for $64.99. From what I can tell, it is CMR and new.

Toshiba 2TB 5400RPM 16MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 2.5in 9.5MM Internal Notebook Hard Drive https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08FBNJ8ZG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_YomMFbFYB6811?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

I am still debating internal vs external drive. I have read many posts but can't find the description of equipment to buy and cables to use to install the external drive. Does anyone have it?

Thanks


----------



## Anotherpyr

gsutkin said:


> I am still debating internal vs external drive. I have read many posts but can't find the description of equipment to buy and cables to use to install the external drive. Does anyone have it?
> 
> Thanks


A few options were mentioned is this thread. I haven't tried it so I can't say what works and what doesn't.

TE4 Bolt upgrade with external drive


----------



## tommage1

gsutkin said:


> Here is the 2TB version of the Toshiba: MQ04ABD200 from Amazon for $64.99. From what I can tell, it is CMR and new.
> 
> Toshiba 2TB 5400RPM 16MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 2.5in 9.5MM Internal Notebook Hard Drive https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08FBNJ8ZG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_YomMFbFYB6811?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> I am still debating internal vs external drive. I have read many posts but can't find the description of equipment to buy and cables to use to install the external drive. Does anyone have it?
> 
> Thanks


Actually that is not the 2TB version of the Toshiba. Note the number, MQ04ABDxxx. The CMR 2TB version is MQ03ABBxxx. The 04ABD is SMR for sure, listed at that website I mentioned as SMR. It uses 1TB platters, largest CMR 2.5 drive platter is is 800GB (according to the person who runs that site, I asked them once).

As for 3.5 external it's really very easy. The post right below your last post has link on how to do it (it is a thread I created). Since there are a lot of sub posts a lot to read. If you stick with what I used, including the EXACT model enclosure it will work. Enclosure, two Sata Cable variations, one IDE/molex to Sata power adapter and the drive itself of course. If you are going to try it I can provide a few more specifics for you.


----------



## gsutkin

Okay - I'm going to do the 3.5 external. If you don't mind, I'm going to run my purchases by you and the Community.

As far as the HD goes, I read that many are going WD Red 3TB, and they seem easily available on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Red-6TB-Inte...3XVD1FP/dp/B07MYL7KVK/ref=dp_ob_title_ce?th=1

I also read that some go for a higher capacity, like this 6TB version:

https://www.amazon.com/Red-6TB-Internal-Hard-Drive-dp-B07MYL7KVK/dp/B07MYL7KVK/ref=dp_ob_title_ce

Will either of these work?


----------



## gsutkin

Looking further, I see WD red, red pro, red plus, and purple. How to choose?


----------



## tommage1

gsutkin said:


> Looking further, I see WD red, red pro, red plus, and purple. How to choose?


Yeah, "Reds" have got complicated. Pro is overkill (and is 7200 RPM, would run hotter and not needed/recommended for Tivo), Plus is good, Red, well if model ends in EFAX you don't want (some 2-6TB models). I personally recommend Purple if you want WD.

At least one of your links is to an EFAX, you DON"T want that one, it's SMR.


----------



## gsutkin

tommage1 said:


> Yeah, "Reds" have got complicated. Pro is overkill (and is 7200 RPM, would run hotter and not needed/recommended for Tivo), Plus is good, Red, well if model ends in EFAX you don't want (some 2-6TB models). I personally recommend Purple if you want WD.


Ok - then I'll go purple:
https://www.amazon.com/Purple-4TB-S...1&keywords=wd+red+purpe&qid=1603932066&sr=8-2

I am considering the 6TB. I read posts (yours, I think) about the expansion technique. How do you hook up a HD to a computer - what kind of SATA cable do I need?

Thanks for all of the help
Gary


----------



## tommage1

gsutkin said:


> Ok - then I'll go purple:
> https://www.amazon.com/Purple-4TB-Surveillance-Hard-Drive/dp/B071KVB4F8/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=wd+red+purpe&qid=1603932066&sr=8-2
> 
> I am considering the 6TB. I read posts (yours, I think) about the expansion technique. How do you hook up a HD to a computer - what kind of SATA cable do I need?
> 
> Thanks for all of the help
> Gary


Well what OS are you running, TE3 or TE4? If TE4 you won't have to hook up to a computer, will format itself (assuming you are starting fresh). If TE3 will format up to 3TB, would have to hookup to computer to get the rest.


----------



## gsutkin

TE3. What is the physical hookup between the drive and the computer? And does it have to be a desktop computer? years ago I formatted a drive this way - it wasn't too complex, but I would need some instructions


----------



## gsutkin

I have this cable from back then. Will it work?


----------



## tommage1

gsutkin said:


> View attachment 53867
> I have this cable from back then. Will it work?


That is an IDE cable, will not work. As I mentioned if you were running TE4 you would not have to hookup to computer at all. TE3 you would if you use over 3TB. For instructions on how to do that I suggest posting in the "upgrade" thread. Multiple ways to do it depending on what computer you are going to use, how you are going to hookup etc, direct to motherboard, in enclosure, USB............. And you will need to download some software and burn to CD/DVD or install to a bootable USB drive. It's not that difficult but best to ask in the upgrade thread. Again, over or under 3TB (any size really) with TE4 no computer needed, over 3TB with TE3 things need to be done (would be the same with internal drive over 3TB also also). The parts needed for the hardware part of the upgrade should be enough for the software process also, though may need a USB flash drive if you don't have a CD/DVD burner.


----------



## gsutkin

tommage1 said:


> That is an IDE cable, will not work. As I mentioned if you were running TE4 you would not have to hookup to computer at all. TE3 you would if you use over 3TB. For instructions on how to do that I suggest posting in the "upgrade" thread. Multiple ways to do it depending on what computer you are going to use, how you are going to hookup etc, direct to motherboard, in enclosure, USB............. And you will need to download some software and burn to CD/DVD or install to a bootable USB drive. It's not that difficult but best to ask in the upgrade thread. Again, over or under 3TB (any size really) with TE4 no computer needed, over 3TB with TE3 things need to be done (would be the same with internal drive over 3TB also also). The parts needed for the hardware part of the upgrade should be enough for the software process also, though may need a USB flash drive if you don't have a CD/DVD burner.


Thanks. I am TE3 and would like to format a 6TB drive, so I will post to the upgrade thread.

Is this the right External station? I couldn't find the exact model you used.
https://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-Exte...17292&sprefix=Sabrent+EC-UEIS7,aps,226&sr=8-4


----------



## gsutkin

I believe this is the most recent Upgrade thread. Can anyone direct me to a description of how to format a 6TB WD purple 3.5 inch hard drive? Can I do it using my laptop and a USB connection? Or do I need to open a desktop computer?
Thanks


----------



## tommage1

gsutkin said:


> Thanks. I am TE3 and would like to format a 6TB drive, so I will post to the upgrade thread.
> 
> Is this the right External station? I couldn't find the exact model you used.
> https://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-External-Lay-Flat-Docking-EC-DFFN/dp/B013WODZH0/ref=sr_1_4?crid=3SOKDLC54JMKG&dchild=1&keywords=sabrent+ec-ueis7&qid=1603917292&sprefix=Sabrent+EC-UEIS7,aps,226&sr=8-4


This is the upgrade forum. Read about MFS Tools and MFSR.

TiVo Upgrade Center

And this is the enclosure. I would not vary on the enclosure, some other models may work, some may not, need to be able to hookup data and power to drive separately. Might be sold out at Amazon.

Sabrent 3.5" USB 2.0/eSATA HDD Enclosure SATA/IDE with Cooling Fan (EC-UEIS7) 689744911607 | eBay

This is the molex to Sata adapter for the power connection to the drive inside the enclosure. Or similar, check the picture.

SATA Power Female to Molex Male Adapter Converter Cable, 6-Inch | eBay

Or this, 2 pack.

2X New IDE/Molex 4-Pin Male To Serial ATA SATA 15-Pin Female Power Adapter Cable 69462703881 | eBay

Other than drive, the enclosure and the molex to Sata adapter cable you will need two more cables, one will run out of the Bolt, one out of the enclosure. They will connect in the middle so you can separate the Bolt from the enclosure. Enclosure data cable will be normal/female Sata connection on one end (connects to drive), male Sata on the other. Cable coming out of the Bolt will be 90 degree female Sata data connection on one end (connects to Bolt motherboard, 90 degree so can close up Bolt when done), female Sata data connection (standard) on the other. Look at my upgrade thread pictures for approximate lengths needed.


----------



## gsutkin

Thanks!


----------



## gsutkin

Regarding the enclosure, does it matter that it's USB 2.0? eBay also has a USB 3.0 version:
USB 3.0 SATA III External 3.5" HDD Hard Drive Enclosure Case Box Plug&Play | eBay

Amazon has a sabrent USB 3.0 brand:
Sabrent USB 3.0 to SATA External Hard Drive Lay-Flat Docking Station with Built-in Cooling Fan for 2.5 or 3.5in HDD, SSD [Support UASP and 6TB] (EC-DFFN)
by Store4PC
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B013WODZH0/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_B5vNFb3KSBDJD

and does this look like the right data cable for the enclosure?
NSI LK-13526 7-pin internal SATA Male to SATA Female Extension cable - 7 pin SATA M/F - 20 inch (50 cm)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003WFBFZY/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_-jwNFb9QXQT1X

Thanks for all of the help


----------



## tommage1

gsutkin said:


> Regarding the enclosure, does it matter that it's USB 2.0? eBay also has a USB 3.0 version:
> USB 3.0 SATA III External 3.5" HDD Hard Drive Enclosure Case Box Plug&Play | eBay
> 
> Amazon has a sabrent USB 3.0 brand:
> Sabrent USB 3.0 to SATA External Hard Drive Lay-Flat Docking Station with Built-in Cooling Fan for 2.5 or 3.5in HDD, SSD [Support UASP and 6TB] (EC-DFFN)
> by Store4PC
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B013WODZH0/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_B5vNFb3KSBDJD
> 
> and does this look like the right data cable for the enclosure?
> NSI LK-13526 7-pin internal SATA Male to SATA Female Extension cable - 7 pin SATA M/F - 20 inch (50 cm)
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003WFBFZY/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_-jwNFb9QXQT1X
> 
> Thanks for all of the help


Enclosure, external connections do not matter as not using them. Specs do not matter either. Enclosure only used to hold and power drive. Again, I suggest using the one I used as there are hundreds of others, not all will have room and internal connections that will allow connecting data and power to drive separately. I cannot answer for any enclosure other than the one I used. Most will NOT work as they have one part connections to the drive.

That looks like correct cable. 20" might be a bit long (will still work) but those are the correct connections.


----------



## gsutkin

You were right about the specificity of the enclosure. The Sabrent USB 3.0 model I ordered from Amazon does not have a SATA port and is not popping up my new WD60PURZ.

I've ordered the one you suggested off ebay.


----------



## tommage1

gsutkin said:


> You were right about the specificity of the enclosure. The Sabrent USB 3.0 model I ordered from Amazon does not have a SATA port and is not popping up my new WD60PURZ.
> 
> I've ordered the one you suggested off ebay.


You could take a picture of what you have purchased so far. The drive should be fine (Purple), the enclosure should be fine once the correct one arrives. So you need the 3 cables.


----------



## gsutkin

Here is what I have so far. I looked at your pictures and Mukwonago's pictures in the TE4 Bolt Upgrade with External Drive thread. Do I need a drive power supply, or is power supplied by the enclosure? (eBay delivering it Saturday)










I am also posting in the MFS Tools 3.2 thread. My old drive is being cloned to a new WD 3TB temporary drive, and I would like to boot it in the Bolt before cloning that to the new 6TB purple drive. Can I do that without the enclosure or a power adapter?


----------



## UCLABB

gsutkin said:


> Here is what I have so far. I looked at your pictures and Mukwonago's pictures in the TE4 Bolt Upgrade with External Drive thread. Do I need a drive power supply, or is power supplied by the enclosure? (eBay delivering it Saturday)
> 
> View attachment 54077
> 
> 
> I am also posting in the MFS Tools 3.2 thread. My old drive is being cloned to a new WD 3TB temporary drive, and I would like to boot it in the Bolt before cloning that to the new 6TB purple drive. Can I do that without the enclosure or a power adapter?


You need EITHER a power supply or an enclosure. I went with a just a power supply and the gear in that picture as I already had that laying around. Tommage told me that you cannot clone the smaller capacity drive to a larger one and expect to save content on a Bolt. I wish it were so.


----------



## tommage1

UCLABB said:


> You need EITHER a power supply or an enclosure. I went with a just a power supply and the gear in that picture as I already had that laying around. Tommage told me that you cannot clone the smaller capacity drive to a larger one and expect to save content on a Bolt. I wish it were so.


Well not quite, you can probably copy and expand to a new larger drive. However you cannot keep the old drive as a backup.


----------



## tommage1

gsutkin said:


> Here is what I have so far. I looked at your pictures and Mukwonago's pictures in the TE4 Bolt Upgrade with External Drive thread. Do I need a drive power supply, or is power supplied by the enclosure? (eBay delivering it Saturday)
> 
> View attachment 54077
> 
> 
> I am also posting in the MFS Tools 3.2 thread. My old drive is being cloned to a new WD 3TB temporary drive, and I would like to boot it in the Bolt before cloning that to the new 6TB purple drive. Can I do that without the enclosure or a power adapter?


No, one or the other, looks like you have what you need, just wait for the enclosure to arrive and use it to power the drive.


----------



## gsutkin

tommage1 said:


> No, one or the other, looks like you have what you need, just wait for the enclosure to arrive and use it to power the drive.


In case I want to try powering the drive first, would this work as a power adapter? (to connect to the SATA-Molex power adapter cable)

100-240v AC to 12 & 5v DC 4pin Molex 2A Power Adapter
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GFSGQTG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A2L77EE7U53NWQ&psc=1


----------



## poppagene

Yes a s long as you already have the 4pin to sata adapter


----------



## cwerdna

poppagene said:


> Yes a s long as you already have the 4pin to sata adapter


Not sure how well that might work. SATA power also carries 3.3 volts which doesn't exist on the 4 pin Molex connector. Not clear how commonly 3.3 volts is actually used on current SATA drives.

If I were in his shoes, I'd get something that has a proper SATA power connector (and hopefully supports all voltages) to begin with.


----------



## poppagene

Most sata hdds (including this one) do not use the 3V orange line (which is what's missing here).


----------



## UCLABB

tommage1 said:


> Well not quite, you can probably copy and expand to a new larger drive. However you cannot keep the old drive as a backup.


Thanks. I think I will do that. Hopefully I'll get around to it before my current drive dies.


----------



## gsutkin

tommage1, can I clarify with you the enclosure I ordered? (which still hasn't arrived ) It's this one from post #87:
Sabrent 3.5" USB 2.0/eSATA HDD Enclosure SATA/IDE with Cooling Fan (EC-UEIS7) 689744911607 | eBay

I notice it has an eSATA port on the outside of the case. Yet the enclosure data cable I ordered is SATA. Does it connect to the enclosure? or directly to the hard drive within the enclosure?

Also, I remember somewhere in the Upgrade Forum seeing pictures of your setup, but for the life of me I can't find it any more. Can you direct me?

Thanks


----------



## Mathelo

gsutkin said:


> I notice it has an eSATA port on the outside of the case. Yet the enclosure data cable I ordered is SATA. Does it connect to the enclosure? or directly to the hard drive within the enclosure?
> 
> Also, I remember somewhere in the Upgrade Forum seeing pictures of your setup, but for the life of me I can't find it any more. Can you direct me?
> 
> Thanks


I was wondering something similar. Why can't you just use the eSATA port with an eSATA to SATA converter to the Bolt and just connect the HDD internally using the connector provided? I feel like I'm missing something important here.

Louis


----------



## gsutkin

I believe something about eSATA prevents the HDD from working properly. But Tommage1 will know, and I want to see how he brings the cable into the enclosure.


----------



## Mathelo

gsutkin said:


> I believe something about eSATA prevents the HDD from working properly. But Tommage1 will know, and I want to see how he brings the cable into the enclosure.


Okay, I look forward to seeing the explanation particularly since I have successfully used a Thermaltake HDD docking station with eSATA connected to a my Bolt SATA to setup a couple of HDDs.


----------



## V7Goose

Mathelo said:


> I feel like I'm missing something important here.


You are. You cannot use it because it does not work. And it is well documented in numerous older threads here.

It USED to work that way just fine, and there is no real reason why it should not continue to work, just like there is no real reason why the eSATA port on any TiVo box should not work to add or replace a drive, just like they do on a computer. EXCEPT that the toads at TiVo do not want it to work that way, so they took action to STOP it from working.

Early in the Bolt's life, many people successfully replaced their internal toy drive with external 3.5" eSATA enclosures simply by using a SATA-to-eSATA cable. And then a couple of years ago TiVo changed something with a software release that broke all of those setups.

Technically, an eSATA port can (and SHOULD) be a straight wire connection without any electronics in between, and if you can find one of the very old enclosures that is built that way, it will still work as you desire. If it is a straight wire conversion, there is no way that the TiVo box can detect it is being used. But the vast majority eSATA enclosures also have a USB or IEEE 1394 connection, and they use some electronic interface to do this, and THAT is why you can no longer use an external eSATA connection with any TiVo. But it won't hurt to try it first, before you start cutting a hole in your new enclosure - maybe you will find one that works.


----------



## gsutkin

So do you cut a hole in the enclosure?


----------



## V7Goose

Generally yes, but some enclosures are built with a cover that you can leave partially loose to snake a cable in that way. The toughest part is to find a modern enclosure that uses a separate power plug for the drive (and has enough room for a molex power adapter if it is needed). If you have an old pre-SATA enclosure sitting around, those are ideal for this.


----------



## V7Goose

Pictures of external drive conversion.


----------



## gsutkin

Awesome setup! I can see how you go SATA to SATA. Is power coming from the bolt? What are your cables?

What kind of enclosure is that?
Can I see the notch in your enclosure?

I like how you cut the notch in the bolt cover.

add:
I can see now that power is hooked up to a molex power adapter. What kind did you use?


----------



## Mathelo

V7Goose said:


> You are. You cannot use it because it does not work. And it is well documented in numerous older threads here.
> 
> It USED to work that way just fine, and there is no real reason why it should not continue to work, just like there is no real reason why the eSATA port on any TiVo box should not work to add or replace a drive, just like they do on a computer. EXCEPT that the toads at TiVo do not want it to work that way, so they took action to STOP it from working.
> 
> Early in the Bolt's life, many people successfully replaced their internal toy drive with external 3.5" eSATA enclosures simply by using a SATA-to-eSATA cable. And then a couple of years ago TiVo changed something with a software release that broke all of those setups.
> 
> Technically, an eSATA port can (and SHOULD) be a straight wire connection without any electronics in between, and if you can find one of the very old enclosures that is built that way, it will still work as you desire. If it is a straight wire conversion, there is no way that the TiVo box can detect it is being used. But the vast majority eSATA enclosures also have a USB or IEEE 1394 connection, and they use some electronic interface to do this, and THAT is why you can no longer use an external eSATA connection with any TiVo. But it won't hurt to try it first, before you start cutting a hole in your new enclosure - maybe you will find one that works.


Thank you for the detailed explanation. I suspected it was something like this. It is interesting that my Thermaltake docking station does work (at least with some HDDs) and it has both eSATA & USB but it is probably 15 years old.

Louis


----------



## V7Goose

gsutkin said:


> Awesome setup! I can see how you go SATA to SATA. Is power coming from the bolt? What are your cables?
> 
> What kind of enclosure is that?
> Can I see the notch in your enclosure?
> 
> I like how you cut the notch in the bolt cover.
> 
> add:
> I can see now that power is hooked up to a molex power adapter. What kind did you use?


That is just an old USB enclosure that was starting to have intermittent problems, so I just ripped out the internal board and ran the wires in where the original USB plug was. The enclosure is now nothing more than a metal box to hold the drive. Since I use an external fan blowing along the back of the Bolt anyway, that metal case provides excellent cooling for the drive without having its own fan.

While the enclosure did have its own internal power supply connection originally, that went away when I took out the board, so I just replaced the plug on the external power brick - basically the same thing as using one of these:
https://www.amazon.com/Warmstor-Ada.../B076WZ1N4K/ref=psdc_3015394011_t3_B00BIE996S

With something like that, you technically do not even need any enclosure (but I like one for looks and protection anyway). There are lots of old drive enclosures that have that type of power brick with a round DIN-type of plug that you can just replace with any molex adapter. By keeping the plug outside the case, you do not have to worry about available space inside. In fact, with the right adapter plugs, you could even use the original drive connection cable from the Bolt as the pigtail to the drive inside of the case. It looks like this one might even have the correct plug already on the power brick to do just that:
https://www.amazon.com/AGPtek-Drive.../B00BIE996S/ref=psdc_3015394011_t1_B076WZ1N4K


----------



## gsutkin

The Sabrent enclosure arrived. How do I get it all to fit inside? 








closing it makes it feel like I'm squeezing the cables


----------



## tommage1

gsutkin said:


> The Sabrent enclosure arrived. How do I get it all to fit inside?
> View attachment 54768
> 
> closing it makes it feel like I'm squeezing the cables
> View attachment 54769


I'm not sure why you have all those cables (basically the power cable) coming out of the enclosure. Only the data cable should be coming out. For me I ran it over the top of the drive, then out the front of the enclosure. Too much going on near the back for the cable to come out there, needs to come out the front. I was able to put cover on enclosure, just kept the screws near the front slightly loose so the cable does not get pinched.

The power connection to the drive should be totally inside the enclosure. Using the molex to Sata power adapter. I see it in your picture but it is not connected. You have the drive connected to the Sata end of the power connector, then the molex part needs to connect to the molex part in the enclosure. One of the nice things about the enclosure is there is room to to this, just tuck the cables/adapter in. Of course will be using the enclosure for power then so it needs to be plugged in using it's own adapter. Look at the pictures of how my upgrade was done, you should be able to see what comes out of the enclosure and where, just the one data cable. You ARE close to being done


----------



## gsutkin

Initial images from upgrading my Bolt+ with a 6TB WD Purple drive.

1. Inside of Bolt. 2.5 inch drive removed. 90 Degree Right Angle SATA III 6.0 Gbps SATA Cable attached to SATA port.








2. My less than pretty modification of the Bolt cover to allow the SATA cable to exit







3. View of the SATA cable exiting from the back of the Bolt







4. Connection between a)90 Degree Right Angle SATA Cable and b)internal SATA Male to SATA Female Extension cable







5. SATA cable connected to the Purple drive inside Sabrent enclosure.








And here is where I need your help: do I have the wrong panel on the enclosure open? I have been comparing with your pictures, and I think you have your cable coming out the same end (ie: folded back over the drive so it exits on the end opposite of the molex connection), but on a different panel side. Here is another image:


----------



## gsutkin

Help! While trying to wrap the SATA cable around the drive in the enclosure so it would exit the other side, I broke a small piece of plastic off the drive, right where the SATA cable inserts into the drive. Now it won't stay connected to the drive, and I already got 4 flashing lights hooked to the Bolt. (See photo: broken piece of plastic just south of where the cable inserts into drive)

how can I fix it in place?


----------



## gsutkin

Ok. Crisis averted I think. I wrapped the SATA cable in a way that it had the least amount of pull on the connector and magyvered some tape and some cardboard around it to keep it steady. Then I closed the panel over the cable where it exits the enclosure to keep it from jiggling. All working


----------



## gsutkin

Tape over the connector:









Red cardboard stuffed under the connector to keep it from jiggling:


----------



## tommage1

Hard to tell but did the plastic break off from the Molex to Sata adapter or the hard drive itself? If off adapter can just buy another for $2-3. As for the drive positioning, not sure if I have mine in there label side up or label side down. I did it so could run the Sata data cable over the label side of the drive. You can just flip the drive over if need be. Which ever way puts the least stress on the Sata data cable.

One more thing, when up and running with the 6TB just leave it be. Don't swap in any other drives for testing or fun. As that could alter the flash drive and screw up the 6TB.


----------



## tommage1

This how I ran the Sata data cable out of the enclosure. You can see it, lower part of picture, black cable with white letters. Below the fan in picture.


----------



## gsutkin

The plastic broke off of the hard drive itself, right where the SATA data cable inserts. It made it so the SATA data cable could easily slip off. If you look at the picture in post #116, it’s right where the SATA connector inserts into the hard drive. Look south of the connection and you’ll see a tiny triangle of plastic missing. 

thanks about not putting in other drives. I think I’d have to be hard pressed to ever open the enclosure again now that it’s working.


----------



## gsutkin

Does it matter if the enclosure/drive sits flat or on its side? I currently have it in the stand so you can see the fan opening and read “Sabrent”


----------



## tommage1

gsutkin said:


> The plastic broke off of the hard drive itself, right where the SATA data cable inserts. It made it so the SATA data cable could easily slip off. If you look at the picture in post #116, it's right where the SATA connector inserts into the hard drive. Look south of the connection and you'll see a tiny triangle of plastic missing.
> 
> thanks about not putting in other drives. I think I'd have to be hard pressed to ever open the enclosure again now that it's working.


Fortunate more did not break off, drive might have become unusable. Yeah once up and running no reason to take apart, certainly not to try other drives. With a new Purple inside could last 5 years or more, perhaps beyond cable card support or even Tivo staying in business. As for enclosure, should not matter how positioned. Flat, on side, or even up and down. Though I would not put flat with fan side down


----------



## tommage1

One more thing about the Sata data cable that connects to the drive inside the enclosure. I have noticed all Sata cables are not the same, some are really heavy duty/stiff, others are a bit more flexible. So one of the more flexible ones might be better for this purpose since bending to fit inside the enclosure. I felt mine, it is pretty thin and flexible. Also might consider one of the 90 degree angle connections to the drive. With a straight connection it starts off heading towards the back of the enclosure. The have to do a pretty drastic bend to get it to come back towards the front of the enclosure. With 90 degree (choose the correct direction, they come in right and left directions, I THINK the one in my picture is left), the cable would be going up towards the bend right away instead of starting towards the back and needing the really drastic bend. You may be just fine with what you have though.

Check picture for example.









I think the other end of the Sata data cable coming out of your enclosure is male. I could not find a 90 degree left on one end to male on the other end. However I did find 90 degree left to femaie and a male to male Sata so could connect and be able to separate the cable coming out of Bolt to cable coming out of enclosure.

7 Pin SATA 90 Degree Left Angle to Straight 7 Pin Cable 20 Inches 794504813449 | eBay

SATA Cable with Male to Male Connections - 7 Pin 705105128757 | eBay

Or this for male to male Sata

7pin SATA 3.0 male to male port adapter Staight Angle SATA 6Gbps Convertor card | eBay


----------



## WVZR1

tommage1 said:


> One more thing about the Sata data cable that connects to the drive inside the enclosure. I have noticed all Sata cables are not the same, some are really heavy duty/stiff, others are a bit more flexible. So one of the more flexible ones might be better for this purpose since bending to fit inside the enclosure. I felt mine, it is pretty thin and flexible. Also might consider one of the 90 degree angle connections to the drive. With a straight connection it starts off heading towards the back of the enclosure. The have to do a pretty drastic bend to get it to come back towards the front of the enclosure. With 90 degree (choose the correct direction, they come in right and left directions), the cable would be going up towards the bend right away instead of starting towards the back and needing the really drastic bend. You may be just fine with what you have though.


There's several orientations for SATA connector and also round vs 'flat' cable so very dependent I'd say on the enclosure the SATA cable might be the last purchase. Get enclosure, fit HDD and determine then what might be most appropriate routing and cable.

*** I believe that connector 'gender' is determined by the terminals vs the connector shell. There's I believe an adapter that could be used on the HDD itself to maybe aid orientation.


----------



## WVZR1

gsutkin said:


> Tape over the connector:
> View attachment 54922
> 
> 
> Red cardboard stuffed under the connector to keep it from jiggling:
> View attachment 54923


There are SATA cables with 'latch feature' - maybe that would make your connection to HDD more secure. I've never had a hands on but maybe others have. Does it matter which side of the HDD is up. If that doesn't matter it could make for more connector options I'd think.


----------



## gsutkin

tommage1 said:


> Fortunate more did not break off, drive might have become unusable. Yeah once up and running no reason to take apart, certainly not to try other drives. With a new Purple inside could last 5 years or more, perhaps beyond cable card support or even Tivo staying in business. As for enclosure, should not matter how positioned. Flat, on side, or even up and down. Though I would not put flat with fan side down


All good advice. My cable is flexible enough that it would twist multiple ways to be able to wrap around the back of the enclosure, then around the drive, and exit the way I wanted it to. 
For my next one, I am going to have a few cables, and use the one that will fit the drive the best with the least amount of tension. I am excited to try a 90 degree connection. 
The key will be to thread it first, get it in place, and connect it last. 
I think I am very fortunate that I didn't make that drive unusable.


----------



## gsutkin

WVZR1 said:


> There are SATA cables with 'latch feature' - maybe that would make your connection to HDD more secure. I've never had a hands on but maybe others have. Does it matter which side of the HDD is up. If that doesn't matter it could make for more connector options I'd think.


Latch feature would be good - I'll search for that next time. I assumed it didn't matter which way the HDD label went (it's on its side now anyway), and flipping it allowed me to place the cable with the least amount of tension.


----------



## Mathelo

tommage1 said:


> This is the molex to Sata adapter for the power connection to the drive inside the enclosure. Or similar, check the picture.
> 
> SATA Power Female to Molex Male Adapter Converter Cable, 6-Inch | eBay


The Sabrent enclosure I received today from eBay does not require this adapter. It included a separate SATA power adapter.


----------



## tommage1

Mathelo said:


> The Sabrent enclosure I received today from eBay does not require this adapter. It included a separate SATA power adapter.


Yeah, I got one of those too. Most have the one piece Sata connection but I guess some don't. Does your have a model number? The one I got that does not require the adapter was used and does not have a model number.


----------



## Mathelo

tommage1 said:


> Yeah, I got one of those too. Most have the one piece Sata connection but I guess some don't. Does your have a model number? The one I got that does not require the adapter was used and does not have a model number.


All I have for a model number is what I believe everyone has been using, EC-UEIS7. I bought it on eBay from mr.sales99. The number on the card in the box is 
BS-S35A-20337-E5 2010/04/27


----------



## tommage1

Mathelo said:


> All I have for a model number is what I believe everyone has been using, EC-UEIS7. I bought it on eBay from mr.sales99. The number on the card in the box is
> BS-S35A-20337-E5 2010/04/27
> View attachment 54997


Hmm, could not find current or sold items by that seller that match the enclosure you bought. The one you got, it also has IDE connections inside and an Esata port on the outside?


----------



## Mathelo

tommage1 said:


> Hmm, could not find current or sold items by that seller that match the enclosure you bought. The one you got, it also has IDE connections inside and an Esata port on the outside?


Yep


----------



## tommage1

Mathelo said:


> Yep


That sounds like one of the ones I have. Maybe same model number but slight variation on the Sata connections inside. Obviously I prefer the separate Sata connections, avoid the adapter for the Tivo upgrade. Thanks.


----------



## gsutkin

My next TiVo to upgrade will be my other Bolt, that was upgraded to a 3TB 2.5 inch drive at purchase. Bolt and drive are both 3 years old and working fine, but I don’t have much faith in those small drives lasting much longer.　

What would be an ideal 10TB drive? I would love to go purple again, and they are available Newegg and Walmart for about $240. But they spin at 7200. Isn’t that too hot?


----------



## tommage1

gsutkin said:


> My next TiVo to upgrade will be my other Bolt, that was upgraded to a 3TB 2.5 inch drive at purchase. Bolt and drive are both 3 years old and working fine, but I don't have much faith in those small drives lasting much longer.
> 
> What would be an ideal 10TB drive? I would love to go purple again, and they are available Newegg and Walmart for about $240. But they spin at 7200. Isn't that too hot?


Seems WD is playing with the purple line now too. Not changing some to SMR like they did with the reds. But now some that were 5400RPM are now 7200RPM. Maybe you can find the previous model, maybe it was WD100PURZ. Seems they played with speeds on the 8TB and up. So now the WD101PURZ would be 5400RPM and WD102PURZ would be 7200RPM? Getting too wacky for me


----------



## gsutkin

If newegg is correct, then WD100PURZ is the only 10TB purple that is 5400. No indication if it is CMR, but the reviews are good. I am happy with my 6TB purple drive on the other Bolt.


----------



## tommage1

gsutkin said:


> If newegg is correct, then WD100PURZ is the only 10TB purple that is 5400. No indication if it is CMR, but the reviews are good. I am happy with my 6TB purple drive on the other Bolt.


I just found out about this change yesterday. And yes, I see some people selling WD101PURZ and WD102PURZ and both list as 7200RPM. Which makes no sense to me as seems they would be the same drive. Either sellers are making a mistake in listings (possible) or I am confused. WD website does not even list WD101PURZ as a current drive, only the WD102PURZ. I may have to stop making drive recommendations as WD keeps changing things, or maybe use Seagate for specialty firmware drives.


----------



## gsutkin

Ok - I'm going to purchase the WD100PURZ from Walmart: $243.


----------



## tommage1

gsutkin said:


> Ok - I'm going to purchase the WD100PURZ from Walmart: $243.


Just FYI Newegg has a Black Friday sale on a Red Plus (which is CMR) 10TB for $189. Pretty good deal I think, though I normally (used to) recommend Purples this will work and could save you some $. One day only though so you'd have to move fast. It's 5400RPM also which is good.

WD Red Plus 10TB NAS Hard Disk Drive 5400 RPM 3.5" - Newegg.com


----------



## tommage1

tommage1 said:


> Just FYI Newegg has a Black Friday sale on a Red Plus (which is CMR) 10TB for $189. Pretty good deal I think, though I normally (used to) recommend Purples this will work and could save you some $. One day only though so you'd have to move fast. It's 5400RPM also which is good.
> 
> WD Red Plus 10TB NAS Hard Disk Drive 5400 RPM 3.5" - Newegg.com


It appears this is a WD Black Friday deal really. So can get direct from WD for the $190. Newegg and Amazon are matching it. They also have the 8TB Red Plus for $150. Also something at WD website about signing up for newsletter, 10% off next purchase. So maybe could sign up in advance and get 10% off the $190 10TB or the $150 8TB? That would be a great deal, close to shucking prices for retail drives.


----------



## gsutkin

tommage1 said:


> Just FYI Newegg has a Black Friday sale on a Red Plus (which is CMR) 10TB for $189. Pretty good deal I think, though I normally (used to) recommend Purples this will work and could save you some $. One day only though so you'd have to move fast. It's 5400RPM also which is good.
> 
> WD Red Plus 10TB NAS Hard Disk Drive 5400 RPM 3.5" - Newegg.com


Oops - I pulled the trigger too soon on the Purple drive. That's a really good deal!


----------



## tommage1

gsutkin said:


> Oops - I pulled the trigger too soon on the Purple drive. That's a really good deal!


It is a good deal, you could always buy the Red and return the Purple? I guess much depends on where you ordered the Purple from, you mentioned Walmart, if it's actually sold by Walmart you could easily return (even take to a store). However if a 3rd party seller selling THROUGH Walmart maybe not as easy............... Up to you, either will work 

Oops, looks like sale is over, they raised price to $242..............


----------



## gsutkin

I saw that too. And it is a third-party seller.
Well, good news is my 2nd sabrent enclosure arrived. I'll be "mscopying" soon!


----------



## WVZR1

gsutkin said:


> I saw that too. And it is a third-party seller.
> Well, good news is my 2nd sabrent enclosure arrived. I'll be "miscopying" soon!


How about some snapshots of this one before you start? Internals etc.


----------



## tommage1

gsutkin said:


> I saw that too. And it is a third-party seller.
> Well, good news is my 2nd sabrent enclosure arrived. I'll be "miscopying" soon!


Good show. Since you've done it once this should be a piece of cake  Do keep in mind, you don't have to cut the Bolt case, can just use those shims like I did.


----------



## WVZR1

I've interest in doing this modification for my Bolt but I've had questions regarding 'power'. I see where @Dan203 had interest back in 9/16 but I didn't see it discussed.

I've had thoughts similar to Dan before considering the modification to my Bolt using an external enclosure. I stumbled upon this question being asked a few years ago but didn't see much conversation. My external drive enclosure and Tivo would be both powered from same BackUPS but that doesn't do anything to disqualify the interest in 'asking'.



Dan203 said:


> How does the TiVo react if the power to the drive is lost but not the power to the TiVo? Not sure if that's a scenario the software is designed to handle or not.





atmuscarella said:


> I would assume it would react the same why they do if your drive dies.





Dan203 said:


> I'm not sure how they react to that either. In the old days everything ran off the drive, so if it died the OS would likely crash. Current TiVos only use the drive for video storage, with the OS running from internal flash RAM so I'm not sure if the OS would crash or not if the drive suddenly died.


----------



## gsutkin

WVZR1,

That's a good question about the power. If I ever power down my upgraded Bolt, I always power back on the external drive before powering on the Tivo again. I would assume powering on the TiVo without a drive would give you 4 flashing lights, and you would safely be able to start over (drive first, tivo second). Has anyone had experience with this?

Btw, lots of us have snapshots here that include the Saberent internals - see my post #115.


----------



## WVZR1

gsutkin said:


> WVZR1,
> 
> That's a good question about the power. If I ever power down my upgraded Bolt, I always power back on the external drive before powering on the Tivo again. I would assume powering on the TiVo without a drive would give you 4 flashing lights, and you would safely be able to start over (drive first, tivo second). Has anyone had experience with this?
> 
> Btw, lots of us have snapshots here that include the Saberent internals - see my post #115.


None in your #115 post show the particulars of the External. I don't/didn't see anything anywhere else that wasn't a 'during' the modification.


----------



## tommage1




----------



## gsutkin

WVZR1 said:


> None in your #115 post show the particulars of the External. I don't/didn't see anything anywhere else that wasn't a 'during' the modification.


I don't want to open the External again (my SATA connection is tenuous), but for my next project, I'll take more pictures.


----------



## UCLABB

WVZR1 said:


> I've interest in doing this modification for my Bolt but I've had questions regarding 'power'. I see where @Dan203 had interest back in 9/16 but I didn't see it discussed.
> 
> I've had thoughts similar to Dan before considering the modification to my Bolt using an external enclosure. I stumbled upon this question being asked a few years ago but didn't see much conversation. My external drive enclosure and Tivo would be both powered from same BackUPS but that doesn't do anything to disqualify the interest in 'asking'.


I have both the tivo and the drive on an ups. If I have to power down the tivo, I put it to sleep first, pull power to it then pull power to drive. Not sure if all that is necessary.


----------



## tommage1

UCLABB said:


> I have both the tivo and the drive on an ups. If I have to power down the tivo, I put it to sleep first, pull power to it then pull power to drive. Not sure if all that is necessary.


Exactly the way I do it. Even if not necessary logic dictates that is the best way to do it. I did screw up once, put the Tivo to sleep but forgot to unplug it. So ended up powering down the drive before powering down the Tivo. Did not cause any issues I am aware of.


----------



## WVZR1

tommage1 said:


> View attachment 55123
> View attachment 55124
> View attachment 55125


Thanks for those - I assumed the early ones also had the IDE provisions. Would there be a reason to avoid these and maybe buy the later SATA only enclosures which are generally closer to $50?


----------



## tommage1

WVZR1 said:


> Thanks for those - I assumed the early ones also had the IDE provisions. Would there be a reason to avoid these and maybe buy the later SATA only enclosures which are generally closer to $50?


Would be a personal choice. But from what I see the majority have the one piece Sata connection only. So can't do separate data and power connection. Also this one has an Esata port for those who want to try Sata to Esata instead of Sata to Sata. This one is inexpensive, high quality (metal), has a fan, good amount of room inside. For me ideal (heck could even attach an IDE drive if ever needed), maybe there are other enclosures as good or even better but finding one might not be easy. I don't know of any reason to AVOID this one.


----------



## bricco

tommage1 said:


> Just FYI Newegg has a Black Friday sale on a Red Plus (which is CMR) 10TB for $189. Pretty good deal I think, though I normally (used to) recommend Purples this will work and could save you some $. One day only though so you'd have to move fast. It's 5400RPM also which is good.
> 
> WD Red Plus 10TB NAS Hard Disk Drive 5400 RPM 3.5" - Newegg.com


Silly question. I promise to hide after this. But can you use either a 2.5 or 3.5 in a Bolt? I see both being mentioned. I swapped a hard drive in a Roamio and I'm feeling brave. Which basic 1 TB drive do you recommend to put in a 500 GB 4-tuner Bolt? Don't need it to be any bigger than that as I will just use for live TV and news recordings. Thanks.


----------



## UCLABB

bricco said:


> Silly question. I promise to hide after this. But can you use either a 2.5 or 3.5 in a Bolt? I see both being mentioned. I swapped a hard drive in a Roamio and I'm feeling brave. Which basic 1 TB drive do you recommend to put in a 500 GB 4-tuner Bolt? Don't need it to be any bigger than that as I will just use for live TV and news recordings. Thanks.


A 3.5" drive will not fit in a Bolt, thus if you want to use one, it has to reside outside the box.
If you put a new drive in a Bolt you will need to re-pair the cable card with your cable provider if you have cable. Didn't need to do that with a Roamio.


----------



## tommage1

bricco said:


> Silly question. I promise to hide after this. But can you use either a 2.5 or 3.5 in a Bolt? I see both being mentioned. I swapped a hard drive in a Roamio and I'm feeling brave. Which basic 1 TB drive do you recommend to put in a 500 GB 4-tuner Bolt? Don't need it to be any bigger than that as I will just use for live TV and news recordings. Thanks.


WD 2.5 Red Plus 1TB. WD10JFCX, it is a CMR drive. Very important you use a CMR drive, many/most 1TB 2.5" are SMR, not good for Tivos.

Actually just WD10JFCX is fine. WD did some renaming recently so it's currently called Red Plus. But any WD10JFCX will do, same drive.


----------



## WVZR1

Can I easily just remove the IDE Ribbon from the board? Might seem like silly/foolish question but it seems it would create space in the enclosure. In most images I see included in most threads the 'ribbon' seems to still be present.









It was very easy. The IDE ribbon is just pressed over the pins and the protective cover just snaps on. It's exactly how I suspected but thought 'best to ask'. SATA power cable chains are fabricated similarly. 2d image is pins, ribbon & retainer. Simple snap off. Removed one switch wire to gain access.


----------



## gsutkin

Great suggestion! I am upgrading my 2nd Bolt (from a functional 3TB MQ03ABB300 to a 10TB WD102PURZ), using the same equipment I used previously, and I also removed the IDE ribbon. Now I'll have more room to wind the SATA cable to connect to the new hard drive. Here are my pictures with the ribbon freshly removed (I also found it easier to temporarily disconnect the switch wire) and with the protective cover replaced.

















(note in the 2nd picture I'm showing the detached ribbon - I'll throw it away)

Btw, here is the open Bolt, with the 2.5" hard drive removed, and the new SATA cable attached:










MSFcopy currently transferring content. I'll hook it up soon and post my results on the MFS Tools 3.2 thread.


----------



## gsutkin

mscopy finished and my new WD 10TB drive booted up without problem. here are images of the connections in the enclosure and to the bolt:


----------



## sbl2786

There's a lot to take in here.. Currently what are the reliable recommended 2tb and 3tb drives for the bolt+? Is there even a good 3tb or should I just go with 2tb? My drive failed tonight... I also don't want to modify anything I just want a simple replacement and a reliable one.


----------



## tommage1

sbl2786 said:


> There's a lot to take in here.. Currently what are the reliable recommended 2tb and 3tb drives for the bolt+? Is there even a good 3tb or should I just go with 2tb? My drive failed tonight... I also don't want to modify anything I just want a simple replacement and a reliable one.


If you are going to stick with a 2.5" drive I'd say you have 3 choices. First the 2.5 1TB WD Red Plus. Only 1TB but far as I know the only CURRENT model 2.5" CMR (not SMR) drive. Second would be the Toshiba 2TB MQ03ABB200. No longer being manufactured but can still find for a decent price (try goharddrive for an excellent deal, $50). Third would be the corresponding 3TB Toshiba, MQ03ABB300. Same thing, discontinued but can be found. However usually very expensive if you do find one (and would want new old stock, not used or refurb if possible). The 3 drives I list are CMR, will work in a Tivo. Almost any other 2.5" drive you can find above 1TB will be SMR, not good for Tivo. Some may work, at least for awhile, some may not work at all. Stick with CMR, for the Toshibas you need the EXACT model numbers, they make other 2.5 drives 2/3TB that are SMR, only slight difference in model number. CMR CMR CMR 

Edit, IMO there is NO 2.5" drive that will be as reliable as a 3.5". But if you want the easiest route, 2.5" drop in, the 3 listed are your best choice, could/should last 3 years plus.


----------



## sbl2786

tommage1 said:


> If you are going to stick with a 2.5" drive I'd say you have 3 choices. First the 2.5 1TB WD Red Plus. Only 1TB but far as I know the only CURRENT model 2.5" CMR (not SMR) drive. Second would be the Toshiba 2TB MQ03ABB200. No longer being manufactured but can still find for a decent price (try goharddrive for an excellent deal, $50). Third would be the corresponding 3TB Toshiba, MQ03ABB300. Same thing, discontinued but can be found. However usually very expensive if you do find one (and would want new old stock, not used or refurb if possible). The 3 drives I list are CMR, will work in a Tivo. Almost any other 2.5" drive you can find above 1TB will be SMR, not good for Tivo. Some may work, at least for awhile, some may not work at all. Stick with CMR, for the Toshibas you need the EXACT model numbers, they make other 2.5 drives 2/3TB that are SMR, only slight difference in model number. CMR CMR CMR
> 
> Edit, IMO there is NO 2.5" drive that will be as reliable as a 3.5". But if you want the easiest route, 2.5" drop in, the 3 listed are your best choice, could/should last 3 years plus.


Thanks for the info

If I go the external route of using a 3.5, I assume there's still recommendations drive wise? Also can that be easily replaced? Not referring to the process of installing it hardware wise but more so will the Tivo format and work without issue?


----------



## tommage1

sbl2786 said:


> Thanks for the info
> 
> If I go the external route of using a 3.5, I assume there's still recommendations drive wise? Also can that be easily replaced? Not referring to the process of installing it hardware wise but more so will the Tivo format and work without issue?


Well once you do the upgrade future replacement of drive would be easy, just replace in the enclosure. If you get a "good" drive (ie CMR, name brand) could last over 5 years. To make it easy I'll just say a WD purple, they are all CMR. Some depends on what OS you are running on Tivo, TE3 or TE4. If TE3 the Tivo will format up to a 3TB drive itself. Anything larger have to run some software (MFSTools or MRSR) to get full capacity, If TE4 the Tivo should format the whole drive itself. Other considerations, if you get over 3TB drive and are using TE4 so it formats entire drive itself you would not be able to "roll back" to TE3 and still have full capacity. Would again have to run some software. Pretty much 3TB and under can use either OS over time, over 3TB if you want to switch around OS in future would have to run some software, assuming you are starting with TE4 and let the Bolt format the drive fresh.

The hardware part of the upgrade is not DIFFICULT but do have to get certain specific type parts like the enclosure itself, not any enclosure will do. I did a thread on it. And I think there is info in this thread also, I see pictures etc.


----------



## gsutkin

tommage1 said:


> ...Third would be the corresponding 3TB Toshiba, MQ03ABB300. Same thing, discontinued but can be found. However usually very expensive if you do find one (and would want new old stock, not used or refurb if possible). ...


Begs the question, what do I do with my used MQ03ABB300? It worked perfectly for 3 years (I just upgraded to an external 10 TB drive). I don't want to sell it - would gladly give it away to a good home, but I suspect no one would want a used drive).


----------



## tommage1

gsutkin said:


> Begs the question, what do I do with my used MQ03ABB300? It worked perfectly for 3 years (I just upgraded to an external 10 TB drive). I don't want to sell it - would gladly give it away to a good home, but I suspect no one would want a used drive).


That is a very generous offer. I don't need one but the 3TB is tough to find. Even with 3 years on it I'm sure someone can use it


----------



## gsutkin

tommage1 said:


> That is a very generous offer. I don't need one but the 3TB is tough to find. Even with 3 years on it I'm sure someone can use it


Good home = someone who will plug it in their own Bolt


----------



## Sixto

gsutkin said:


> Begs the question, what do I do with my used MQ03ABB300? It worked perfectly for 3 years (I just upgraded to an external 10 TB drive). I don't want to sell it - would gladly give it away to a good home, but I suspect no one would want a used drive).


Probably best to stick it in an external bay and try DriveDx or a SMART checker to see how good it really is first. It may be best to keep it around, just in case you ever need to trade-in or sell the Bolt, to put it back to factory specs.


----------



## tommage1

gsutkin said:


> Good home = someone who will plug it in their own Bolt


Again a nice offer, I see Bolt "4 flashing lights" posts here on a regular basis. Some may not have the $50-100 needed to get a new drive at the moment. Might not hurt to run a diagnostic/SMART check on your Toshiba. Will show you how many actual hours on the drive (8760 hours in a year) and if any sectors have been remapped.


----------



## milo99

WD 3.5" Red PLUS drives are CMR (WD##EFRX ... eg: WD30EFRX for 3tb)
https://smile.amazon.com/Red-10TB-Internal-Hard-Drive/dp/B083JXTH5L

i got what apparently was one of the last  2tb 2.5" WD20NPVZ on Amazon. Just had it delivered last night and put it in my Bolt. This is the listing, says currently out of stock but may want to check this listing out periodically to see if they get more. My actual drive was manufactured in Dec 2017 though, so it appears to be old stock that is still remaining.


----------



## ManeJon

Just checked your link and it says 2TB in stock


----------



## tommage1

milo99 said:


> WD 3.5" Red PLUS drives are CMR (WD##EFRX ... eg: WD30EFRX for 3tb)
> https://smile.amazon.com/Red-10TB-Internal-Hard-Drive/dp/B083JXTH5L
> 
> i got what apparently was one of the last  2tb 2.5" WD20NPVZ on Amazon. Just had it delivered last night and put it in my Bolt. This is the listing, says currently out of stock but may want to check this listing out periodically to see if they get more. My actual drive was manufactured in Dec 2017 though, so it appears to be old stock that is still remaining.


Yes, that is a CMR drive, 4 500GB platters. According to:

The HDD Platter Capacity Database: HDD Platter Database - Western Digital - 2.5" (Scorpio/Blue/Black)

Says it is a "Blue", must be a discontinued Blue. So another CMR 2.5 2TB drive that could be used in a Tivo if can be found  I think there is a similar model 2.5 2TB WD drive that is CMR also. WD20NPVX, that one shows as a "Green". So there are other 2TB CMR drives that could be used in Tivo other than the Toshiba, same caveat, if you can find them


----------



## tommage1

ManeJon said:


> Just checked your link and it says 2TB in stock


You sure you hit the right link? Shows out of stock for me. Must be listing for specific model WD20NPVZ, there are other 2TB Blues that are not CMR.


----------



## tommage1

Ok, all this got my interest up so I went and checked for all WD 2.5" CMR drives, 2TB and up (3TB is max for CMR 2.5" drive) Here is what I found, all discontinued models of course. They did have a 1.5TB CMR 2.5" drive also. All these should work fine in a Tivo since CMR, if you can find them in new condition. Maybe I'll check Seagate and Toshiba sometime 

WD 2.5" 2TB CMR drives.

WD20NPVX Green

WD20NPVZ Blue

WD20NPVT Green

WD20NMVW Not for Resale (could be USB only, not Sata0

WD 2.5" 3TB CMR drives

WD30NMVW Not for resale (could be USB only, not Sata)

WD30NMZW Not for resale (could be USB only, not Sata)

WD30NPVX Blue

WD30NPRZ Blue

WD30NPZZ Blue


----------



## gsutkin

As promised, here are the images from my external enclosure. Even without the IDE ribbon, it was a tight fit. I used great care to make sure there was no tension on the connection the the HD


----------



## gsutkin

And here is the bolt and the enclosure. I used the cardboard shimmies this time. Thanks Tommage1!


----------



## tommage1

That's really nice. Did such a good job I would not be surprised if some members want to send their Tivos to you for an upgrade!! Maybe put Weaknees out of business


----------



## tommage1

tommage1 said:


> That's really nice. Did such a good job I would not be surprised if some members want to send their Tivos to you for an upgrade!! Maybe put Weaknees out of business
> 
> View attachment 56128


Oh, you mentioned really tight fit. If you look at my picture you see I put the molex/Sata adapter wires on top of the drive. The enclosure cover is raised in that area so fits easily (I even have the IDE cable intact). That way don't have to squeeze the molex/Sata wires into the small area between the back of the drive and the back of the enclosure.


----------



## um3k

gsutkin said:


> As promised, here are the images from my external enclosure. Even without the IDE ribbon, it was a tight fit. I used great care to make sure there was no tension on the connection the the HD


Just curious, I did a Bolt HDD replacement recently and was able to get away with plugging from the internal Bolt sata connector directly to the external case esata (using a WD 3TB purple inside). Was that because I'm running TE3 on the Bolt?


----------



## WVZR1

um3k said:


> Just curious, I did a Bolt HDD replacement recently and was able to get away with plugging from the internal Bolt sata connector directly to the external case esata (using a WD 3TB purple inside). Was that because I'm running TE3 on the Bolt?


What brand/model of external enclosure?


----------



## um3k

It's a Rosewill enclosure, served me well over the years, I've owned the USB2 and USB3 versions.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005KGNXTE


----------



## WVZR1

um3k said:


> It's a Rosewill enclosure, served me well over the years, I've owned the USB2 and USB3 versions.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005KGNXTE


You're avoiding answering the 'question'!!! What did you use! There's no generic answer for what you're claiming to use SATA from Bolt to eSATA of just any variety of enclosure.


----------



## um3k

I’ve used a sata to esata cable from the internal port of the bolt running TE3 to the linked Rosewill enclosure. Not sure how I’ve “avoided the question”???


----------



## um3k

Just trying to figure out how I was lucky enough to avoid the “HDD / enclosure roulette” that others on the board are experiencing with Bolt drive replacements.


----------



## tommage1

um3k said:


> Just curious, I did a Bolt HDD replacement recently and was able to get away with plugging from the internal Bolt sata connector directly to the external case esata (using a WD 3TB purple inside). Was that because I'm running TE3 on the Bolt?


Well it's always best to go Sata to Sata. When using eSata it's going through electronics, possible different firmwares etc. Yeah, more likely to work with TE3 than TE4. But I suggest switching to Sata to Sata, avoid eSata. And if you use the Sabrent enclosure I recommend, the EXACT model, it will work. Cheap too, $25-30.


----------



## V7Goose

um3k said:


> I've used a sata to esata cable from the internal port of the bolt running TE3 to the linked Rosewill enclosure. Not sure how I've "avoided the question"???


I do not think you "avoided" answering anything - you clearly gave a link to the enclosure you used. Thank you.

As for why it worked for you - you just got lucky finding one of the very few eSATA enclosures that nasty customer-hating Bad_Rovi did not succeed in blocking. At least one other enclosure has been reported to work in the past since TiVo tried to block them all (perhaps it was even the same one you used?).

For the first few years with the Bolts, all eSATA enclosures worked just fine, and then Bad_Rovi made software changes to break them all; that is why we now recommend to only go straight from SATA to SATA. Glad to hear you have one that is still working - I see no reason to change anything unless it stops working in the future.

That case is kind of expensive, but may be worth it to avoid the additional hassles. The only downside might be that, in my opinion, eSATA is TERRIBLE technology with very unreliable connectors, so reliability can be a problem if the devices are moved even slightly; that problem is solved by using only direct SATA connections.

Of course, if you avoid trying to use the eSATA connections, then it makes absolutely no difference what enclosure you use at all, so long as it has room for the necessary cables and you have a way to provide power to the drive. Even cases that do not have individual power connections for the drives are easily modified by anyone with a soldering iron (and that change generally solves any space problems too).


----------



## gsutkin

How does TiVo view our upgrading activities? I am sure I have violated every warranty, but these upgrades (most importantly the ability to use a 3.5inch drive in a Bolt) will keep me a satisfied TiVo customer for years.


----------



## V7Goose

gsutkin said:


> How does TiVo view our upgrading activities? I am sure I have violated every warranty, but these upgrades (most importantly the ability to use a 3.5inch drive in a Bolt) will keep me a satisfied TiVo customer for years.


Well, they can certainly see that you made the modifications if they wanted (lots of stats are reported back by your box), but they have never made an issue of it as long as the customer does not make a point of talking about it.

They generally provide the same terrible customer service to modified boxes as they do for stock boxes.


----------



## WVZR1

Check this .pdf for 8TB WD80EFAX 7200RPM *9 FOOT NOTE.

https://shop.westerndigital.com/too...uct-brief-western-digital-wd-red-plus-hdd.pdf

I bought this from their store GF Sale









What would you expect they're going to tell me when I create an issue regarding it's use in a DVR? Nothing on the Foil Wrap DTD 3 DEC 2020 for build - I did WD diagnostics before MFSTools but never paid any attention to the label. The Roamio is in a rack and I didn't want to touch it until Wed/Thurs when I expand it.


----------



## tommage1

WVZR1 said:


> Check this .pdf for 8TB WD80EFAX 7200RPM *9 FOOT NOTE.
> 
> https://shop.westerndigital.com/too...uct-brief-western-digital-wd-red-plus-hdd.pdf
> 
> I bought this from their store GF Sale
> View attachment 56269
> 
> 
> What would you expect they're going to tell me when I create an issue regarding it's use in a DVR? Nothing on the Foil Wrap DTD 3 DEC 2020 for build - I did WD diagnostics before MFSTools but never paid any attention to the label. The Roamio is in a rack and I didn't want to touch it until Wed/Thurs when I expand it.


Ah, I've discussed that in other threads. Seems the 8TB and up Red Plus, Red Pros and the Purples may all be Ultrastar DC HC500 series drives. Check the R/N numbers to compare. They just use different firmwares and on some tone down (binning?) the RPM from 7200 to 5400. I would not worry about it myself. Would not bother discussing with WD, if you are planning on telling them you will be using in a non NAS device, ie Tivo. Again, while it's not GREAT since this is not a designed from scratch 5400 RPM drive it SHOULD be fine. If you had bought a Purple probably same drive, just with AV firmware. But at least they might provide some support since using an AV firmware drive in an AV device (ie Tivo).


----------



## WVZR1

I've finally received some parts. I've bought a 'Parts Only' black Bolt to see how I might modify it before doing mine for external. The Bolt hasn't arrived yet.
The reason I asked about what 'specific' externals had been used was from mostly 'troubled fit' by many. I have the same Sabrent EC-UEIS7 that is displayed in this thread and others with none having direct connects that seemed to interest me. Something was always tweaked or appeared forced.
I turned the fan 1/4 turn and turned the board over in mine and using using a 'LEFT' StarTech SATA POWER (SATAPOWADPL) and 'Low Profile' SilverStone (SST-CP11) SATA DATA the drive can be inserted in the enclosure with the HDD circuity facing the fan. The SST-CP11 I ordered is 300mm long and there's 500mm length also available. Mine will be cable direct SATA(Bolt) to SATA HDD in the enclosure w/grommet on the Bolt and also the enclosure. There will be no intermediate coupling/connection of any sort.
There's another way to accomplish this I believe but the SATAPOWADP regardless of brand or L/R orientation doesn't allow correct HDD orientation to the fan.

The SATA DATA I used is this: SilverStone CP11 INTRODUCTION

The Startech: 6in LP4 to Left Angle SATA Adapter - Computer Power Cables - Internal

The grommets came from a 'local' hardware store but this Hillman is identical: Grooved Rubber Grommet (3/8" Inner Dia. x 5/8" Outer Dia. x 1/4" Thick) | Sleeving/Bushings - Electrical | Electrical | Specialty | Fastening Solutions | Hillman US Site

I'll do some snapshots and you can compare to those in this thread and other threads. Posts #150 & #161 and vicinity are of the same external housing I used.

Grommet tray from my local:


----------



## tommage1

WVZR1 said:


> I've finally received some parts. I've bought a 'Parts Only' black Bolt to see how I might modify it before doing mine for external. The Bolt hasn't arrived yet.
> The reason I asked about what 'specific' externals had been used was from mostly 'troubled fit' by many. I have the same Sabrent EC-UEIS7 that is displayed in this thread and others with none having direct connects that seemed to interest me. Something was always tweaked or appeared forced.
> I turned the fan 1/4 turn and turned the board over in mine and using using a 'LEFT' StarTech SATA POWER (SATAPOWADPL) and 'Low Profile' SilverStone (SST-CP11) SATA DATA the drive can be inserted in the enclosure with the HDD circuity facing the fan. The SST-CP11 I ordered is 300mm long and there's 500mm length also available. Mine will be cable direct SATA(Bolt) to SATA HDD in the enclosure w/grommet on the Bolt and also the enclosure. There will be no intermediate coupling/connection of any sort.
> There's another way to accomplish this I believe but the SATAPOWADP regardless of brand or L/R orientation doesn't allow correct HDD orientation to the fan.
> 
> The SATA DATA I used id this: SilverStone CP11 INTRODUCTION
> 
> The Startech: 6in LP4 to Left Angle SATA Adapter - Computer Power Cables - Internal
> 
> The grommets came from a 'local' hardware store but this Hillman is identical: Grooved Rubber Grommet (3/8" Inner Dia. x 5/8" Outer Dia. x 1/4" Thick) | Sleeving/Bushings - Electrical | Electrical | Specialty | Fastening Solutions | Hillman US Site
> 
> I'll do some snapshots and you can compare to those in this thread and other threads. Posts #150 & #161 and vicinity are of the same external housing I used.
> 
> Grommet tray from my local:
> View attachment 56302


It's nice. I especially like that Sata data cable, thin and looks very flexible. Nice you found a way to put the drive in with the fan facing the board. Though I think the other way is fine also, the fan is just a "bonus" most pre-bought externals don't even have a fan. Fan could help with 7200RPM drives though. The key to the whole thing is Sata to Sata and drive having it's own power. As far as the Bolt is concerned, since Sata to Sata same as internal drive. Even better, since no drive in the Bolt at all a bit less heat and less stress on the Bolt AC adapter. Should be good for many years. I would like to see pics of final product. Only thing I prefer is the intermediate coupling so can separate Bolt from enclosure easily. But rarely have to do that. And doubt could find a male/female Sata cable like the super thin one you are using


----------



## WVZR1

tommage1 said:


> It's nice. I especially like that Sata data cable, thin and looks very flexible. Nice you found a way to put the drive in with the fan facing the board. Though I think the other way is fine also, the fan is just a "bonus" most pre-bought externals don't even have a fan. Fan could help with 7200RPM drives though.


I get the 'maybe doesn't matter' but I've friends that won't accept that as a justification!

I believe that if this SATA DATA & POWER header were 'clearanced/trimmed' by maybe as little as .030" the SATAPOWADPL would clear and the HDD could be oriented correctly also. I nearly took the time with a sanding block to do that but I didn't have what I wanted right here in hand. I believe you'll get the idea though. I ain't a graphic guy that can do arrow etc!









Side skirts and the bezel aren't attached yet but there's the grommet etc. HDD right side up!


----------



## tommage1

WVZR1 said:


> I get the 'maybe doesn't matter' but I've friends that won't accept that as a justification!


Hey, I get it, I like things to be as near perfect as possible. When totally done post the pics of the entire assembly. Might have to go into business selling these upgrades yourself


----------



## WVZR1

tommage1 said:


> Hey, I get it, I like things to be as near perfect as possible. When totally done post the pics of the entire assembly. Might have to go into business selling these upgrades yourself


I ain't interested but look at #3 snapshot in post #160. What interested me there was the HDD caddy sizing. I thought about mounting an exhaust fan to that HDD caddy connected/powered by the enclosure.

I've been tossed a bit of a curve - my parts only purchase arrived today very late. It's spotless, I connected it, it's called home and it's an account closed device (no problem)/ (it can be reactivated) and it's TE4. ALL of TIVO+ seems to stream just fine from it complete w/guide. Is what I'm seeing there the same as the newer Streamer? It's gathered all the local info and it might be a shame to cannabalize it. It's a 1TB VOX with a Sept '17 build.


----------



## tommage1

WVZR1 said:


> I've been tossed a bit of a curve - my parts only purchase arrived today very late. It's spotless, I connected it, it's called home and it's an account closed device (no problem) and it's TE4. ALL of TIVO+ seems to stream just fine from it complete w/guide. Is what I'm seeing there the same as the newer Streamer? It's gathered all the local info and it might be a shame to cannabalize it. It's a 1TB VOX with a Sept '17 build.


Well "I" can't offer any advice on that, I don't stream, I'm a DVR recording guy. I don't know what you mean by "newer Streamer" though, you mean an Edge? Or that Stream 4K thing? I thought all Bolts were pretty much the same, other than TE3 or TE4 being installed. Vox just means TE4 as stock OS? And black vs white in some cases.


----------



## WVZR1

If I had a Bolt only and wanted to do an external enclosure I'd look into probably a picoPSU and a MINIbox for an enclosure. You wouldn't spend substantially more $$$, Probably many available. A HIDEit for the Bolt and the MINIbox maybe VESA mounted on the back of a TV/Display. A picoPSU in your own creation! Power the various fans etc using the picoPSU.

Look at the M350 and the various picoPSU from this vendor for ideas -

Mini-Box.com - Mini-ITX | Motherboards | Power Supplies | Car PC


----------



## milo99

Question about putting in a formatted harddrive.

So if i have a windows formatted drive and pop it in, will the bolt reformat it and be fine?

Do i need to remove the partitions first?

I have a dead 1tb bolt i got from someone. No lights or output from hdmi or anything, so I want to test out the drive, make sure it works ok and maybe sell the drive. Buy dont want to sell it without knowing it works.

I dont know linux, but I do have an ooold tivo linux boot cd i could use i suppose. But have no idea how to test the drive if i were to use that pn my pc.

edit: found this thread HOWTO: "Zero Write a Disk/Drive to Prepare/Repair it for Use in a TiVo Bolt or Other Device which explains a bit of what is need it looks like.


----------



## gsutkin

What hard drive clicks are normal and what clicks spell doom? I'll post a link to a m4a file from my new WD100PURZ running in an enclosure, connected to a 4-tuner bolt. Over the fan you can hear soft, random clicks. The Bolt is working fine.

Box


----------



## gsutkin

Cooling fan stopped spinning on Sabrent EC-7F83 enclosure, and I don’t want to buy another used one. Can anyone recommend a new enclosure, that I can open and hook power and sata cables directly? (ie: not sata)


----------



## tommage1

gsutkin said:


> Cooling fan stopped spinning on Sabrent EC-7F83 enclosure, and I don't want to buy another used one. Can anyone recommend a new enclosure, that I can open and hook power and sata cables directly? (ie: not sata)


You could probably just buy a fan, size is pretty standard I think. Or disconnect, don't really need a fan, it's just kind of a bonus IMO. Majority of pre assembled retail external drives don't even have a fan. Up to you.

The Easystores that many people shuck don't have fans, they contain white label WD "Reds".


----------



## gsutkin

The drive feels hot. I have read others reporting drive temperature. Is there a way to check it?


----------



## tommage1

gsutkin said:


> The drive feels hot. I have read others reporting drive temperature. Is there a way to check it?


All platter type drives feel pretty warm/hot when in use. As for checking, I guess you could just put a thermometer on it. Or run a diagnostic/SMART test on it, has temperature history but would probably show the highest temperature ever recorded, not sure. There may be some computer programs with detailed info like current temperatures, of drive, CPU etc. I used to use one called Software Sandra. Or computer BIOS may show that info, current temps.


----------



## gsutkin

When I shop for 80mm cooling fans with 2 pins, I see something like this:

80 mm PC CPU Case Fans DC 12V Computer Fan 80mm 3.15 inch 2 Pin XH 2.54 8025 High Performance Cooling Fan 3000RPM 2-Pack https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R52RY3P/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_RYDGBBBJRY8151A982DF

will it fit the sabrent?

easier to just buy a different enclosure?


----------



## jmkelly

Simple question. I have a TiVo Bolt VOX with a 3Gig. HD. As of today 04/25/2021 What Hard Drive will replace it. I have read all the post with no luck finding HD available today. Thanks for any help I can Get.


----------



## Tony_T

It's impossible (AFAIK) to get a 2½ 3T CMR drive. You can get a seagate 3T 2½, but it's an SMR. Best bet is for a 3½ WD Red Plus CMR and hook it up external to the Bolt. There are write ups somewhere in these forums on how to do an external hook up.
Another (expensive) option is to get Weaknees.com to do it, or get one of their upgrade kits. (TiVo Upgrade Kits and Hard Drives)


----------



## tommage1

Tony_T said:


> It's impossible (AFAIK) to get a 2½ 3T CMR drive. You can get a seagate 3T 2½, but it's an SMR. Best bet is for a 3½ WD Red Plus CMR and hook it up external to the Bolt. There are write ups somewhere in these forums on how to do an external hook up.
> Another (expensive) option is to get Weaknees.com to do it, or get one of their upgrade kits. (TiVo Upgrade Kits and Hard Drives)


2.5" 2TB and 3TB CMR drives for Tivo Bolts | TiVoCommunity Forum

But yeah, I'd recommend a CMR 3.5 in external, that is what I do. Sata to Sata.


----------



## tommage1

gsutkin said:


> When I shop for 80mm cooling fans with 2 pins, I see something like this:
> 
> 80 mm PC CPU Case Fans DC 12V Computer Fan 80mm 3.15 inch 2 Pin XH 2.54 8025 High Performance Cooling Fan 3000RPM 2-Pack https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R52RY3P/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_RYDGBBBJRY8151A982DF
> 
> will it fit the sabrent?
> 
> easier to just buy a different enclosure?


Don't know. However the seller lists detailed specs and dimensions. So compare to what is currently in the enclosure, especially the dimensions.


----------



## tommage1

jmkelly said:


> Simple question. I have a TiVo Bolt VOX with a 3Gig. HD. As of today 04/25/2021 What Hard Drive will replace it. I have read all the post with no luck finding HD available today. Thanks for any help I can Get.


I believe there are no CURRENT model 2.5" CMR drives over 1TB. So look for a new discontinued model drive, if you want to stick with 2.5.

2.5" 2TB and 3TB CMR drives for Tivo Bolts | TiVoCommunity Forum

By the way, hope you mean 3TB HD in your Bolt. 3Gig would be pretty tiny


----------



## WVZR1

gsutkin said:


> Cooling fan stopped spinning on Sabrent EC-7F83 enclosure, and I don't want to buy another used one. Can anyone recommend a new enclosure, that I can open and hook power and sata cables directly? (ie: not sata)


In some of the Sabrent enclosures the HDD doesn't fit with the 'correct' side of the HDD facing the fan so the fan is actually useless. If your HDD is mounted so that the 'correct' side of the HDD is facing the fan then a replacement fan should be inexpensive. The fan you linked to I'd think wouldn't be a good choice and be likely very noisy.

Sabrent might sell just the fan for yours. The fan you linked to is nearly 1" also and the fan in a Sabrent is likely a 12mm depth.

***I believe I recall your HDD being mounted 'bottom side-up' OR incorrectly in previous snapshots so the fan was of no use anyways. If it's a different enclosure than your snapshots I apologize.


----------



## tommage1

WVZR1 said:


> In some of the Sabrent enclosures the HDD doesn't fit with the 'correct' side of the HDD facing the fan so the fan is actually useless. If your HDD is mounted so that the 'correct' side of the HDD is facing the fan then a replacement fan should be inexpensive. The fan you linked to I'd think wouldn't be a good choice and be likely very noisy.


Correct that the wrong side of the drive could end up facing the fan. There is a way to get around that though based on how you hookup up the internal cables. However I would not say "useless" regardless, the fan IS still blowing on the drive so would provide SOME cooling?


----------



## tommage1

tommage1 said:


> Correct that the wrong side of the drive could end up facing the fan. There is a way to get around that though based on how you hookup up the internal cables. However I would not say "useless" regardless, the fan IS still blowing on the drive so would provide SOME cooling?


Some drives do have air/cooling holes. So for sure the best results would be the fan blowing on the side with the cooling holes. But many of the larger drives are helium now which are totally sealed. For those I would guess would not matter which side the fan blows on, or even needing a fan at all.


----------



## WVZR1

tommage1 said:


> Correct that the wrong side of the drive could end up facing the fan. There is a way to get around that though based on how you hookup up the internal cables. However I would not say "useless" regardless, the fan IS still blowing on the drive so would provide SOME cooling?


'USELESS' OR 'SERVES NO PURPOSE' - Pick one!!


----------



## gnat

So the drive in my Bolt 3TB died yesterday and I have since learned more than I care to know about CMR vs SMR (why??). I am having a hard time finding a 2.5" CMR drive of even remotely acceptable size for a price I can stomach.
I keep seeing talk of using a 3.5", but I don't see how one would fit inside and haven't found further explanation. Are the 3.5" references simply external drives plugged into the esata port? Will it run like that without an internal drive?
If that is how it is working, just how big can you go? (my wife refuses to delete stuff and it was bouncing off 100% when it died)


----------



## Tony_T

The eSata port at the back of the Bolt no longer works (used to a long time ago, and only as an addition to the internal drive, and only with a WD Passport that is no longer available)
You need to connect a Sata cable to the board _inside_ the Bolt.
There are a few write ups is these threads, here's Two:
Thoughts on Using an External HDD With a Bolt
TE4 Bolt upgrade with external drive​The Bolt used to be limited to a 3T drive without using another program to format the drive first, but I've read that the Bolt now self-formats large drives: TE4 Bolt and Large Drives


----------



## dianebrat

gnat said:


> So the drive in my Bolt 3TB died yesterday and I have since learned more than I care to know about CMR vs SMR (why??). I am having a hard time finding a 2.5" CMR drive of even remotely acceptable size for a price I can stomach.
> I keep seeing talk of using a 3.5", but I don't see how one would fit inside and haven't found further explanation. Are the 3.5" references simply external drives plugged into the esata port? Will it run like that without an internal drive?
> If that is how it is working, just how big can you go? (my wife refuses to delete stuff and it was bouncing off 100% when it died)


This is a favorite of many including myself and 1TB shy, I've used it in my 500GB units and have yet to have one die, and it's under $60
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08231HZPW

3.5" drives are in external cases that allow you to connect direct and it involves a cable from the motherboard to the external drive and a hole in the case, it's not an approach that has ever interested me, there are threads about this.


----------



## gnat

dianebrat said:


> This is a favorite of many including myself and 1TB shy, I've used it in my 500GB units and have yet to have one die, and it's under $60
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08231HZPW
> 
> 3.5" drives are in external cases that allow you to connect direct and it involves a cable from the motherboard to the external drive and a hole in the case, it's not an approach that has ever interested me, there are threads about this.


Thanks for the link. Toshiba's says all their 2.5s are SMR though. Not true?

Thanks for the 3.5 info. I tend to agree with you about cutting holes, but if I could connect it to a RAID enclosure so all data isn't lost when a drive fails...


----------



## dianebrat

gnat said:


> Thanks for the link. Toshiba's says all their 2.5s are SMR though. Not true?


I have no idea why they say that or which models that applies to, but this is an older model line and has been very popular, the big disappointment is that the 3TB is no longer readily available.


----------



## ggieseke

gnat said:


> Thanks for the 3.5 info. I tend to agree with you about cutting holes, but if I could connect it to a RAID enclosure so all data isn't lost when a drive fails...


AFAIK, nobody has ever successfully used a RAID enclosure with a TiVo.


----------



## Tony_T

I think the only way to copy data from a TiVo failing drive is to use low level copy, for example, ddrescue - Wikipedia


----------



## guruuno

Excuse my ignorance.
Read 12 pages here.
PMR, CMR, HD's for Bolts, etc., a lot to digest.
Bottom line, simple cut and dry answer being sought.
Why can't any 2 or 3 TB 2-1/2" HDD be used, what happens if you use a commonly available one and not the "required' of suggested ones?
TIA


----------



## tommage1

PMR is now a generic term and can include SMR or CMR. For Tivos what you want is CMR. SMR may or may not work, even if it does will probably not last very long, The largest current model 2.5" CMR drive is the 1TB WD Red Plus. If you want a larger CMR 2.5 check here, the largest 2.5" CMR drive ever sold is 3TB (far as I know, due to CMR platter capacity and number of platters that will fit). All are discontinued models so you will have to find a "new" one and a reliable seller for warranty. There are no 4TB or up 2.5" CMR drives. Use SMR at your own risk.

2.5" 2TB and 3TB CMR drives for Tivo Bolts | TiVoCommunity Forum


----------



## Tony_T

guruuno said:


> Why can't any 2 or 3 TB 2-1/2" HDD be used, what happens if you use a commonly available one and not the "required' of suggested ones?
> TIA


"_In (very) brief, SMR disks generally perform well enough in light storage workloads, with plenty of idle time between storage requests-but they can fall catastrophically flat on their faces when hit with more demanding workloads. The ZFS filesystem, in particular, tends to present SMR disks with challenges they have difficulty handling_."
Western Digital adds "Red Plus" branding for non-SMR hard drives​


----------



## cwerdna

guruuno said:


> Excuse my ignorance.
> Read 12 pages here.
> PMR, CMR, HD's for Bolts, etc., a lot to digest.
> Bottom line, simple cut and dry answer being sought.
> Why can't any 2 or 3 TB 2-1/2" HDD be used, what happens if you use a commonly available one and not the "required' of suggested ones?
> TIA


Try not to overcomplicate things.

Shingled magnetic recording drives are bad mojo in a TiVo unless TiVo themselves has put that model of shingled drive in that model of TiVo. See Bolt HDD Upgrades in 2021 for examples as to why. Think of roof singles w/the slight overlap.

For non-shingled recording drives, there are still a bunch that may not work or may not work for long.


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## V7Goose

TiVos use a hard drive very differently than any computer does; they are sensitive to consistent read and write speeds. But those details really do not matter at all unless you are actually trying to learn something. 

But you want a simple cut and dry answer, so here it is:
You can buy and try to use any drive you want, but most of them just will not work. It will not damage anything, but it just will not work. Lots of other users have already done the testing and reported the results here, so the intelligent thing to do would seem to be to just buy a drive that has already been reported to work with your TiVo model.


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## cwerdna

Sorry to bump this thread, I see someone here was using a Sabrent EC-7F83. What fan-cooled external enclosure to get for 3.5" drive? recommended a EC-UEIS7 Hard Drive Enclosure.

Are you all having to use 4-pin Molex to SATA power adapters? If so, I stumbled across Molex to SATA Adapter Cables Can Be Dangerous to Your SSD! | Crucial.com last night and found this today:

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/8ixw2e
. That is super concerning.

If that's what's required, I would not want to go that route. I could be asleep or away from home when a fire breaks out. There's a big difference between running something attended for a few hours on a temporary basis vs. 24 x 7 for years.

Is there some other enclosure, even w/o fan cooling has a real SATA power connector but also allows for a straight SATA data connection (no eSATA in between) and a UL-listed (or equivalent) power supply?


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## tommage1

cwerdna said:


> Sorry to bump this thread, I see someone here was using a Sabrent EC-7F83. What fan-cooled external enclosure to get for 3.5" drive? recommended a EC-UEIS7 Hard Drive Enclosure.


I think someone found an enclosure that does not have to use the molex/Sata adapter. You'd have to check details to make sure.

*Rosewill Armer RX304*


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## cwerdna

tommage1 said:


> I think someone found an enclosure that does not have to use the molex/Sata adapter. You'd have to check details to make sure.
> 
> *Rosewill Armer RX304*


Indeed. I was looking for a source for that last night since it seems out of production but pretty much to no avail.

An over 7 hour power outage today along w/the discovery that once Comcast goes out (a few hours into the power outage) that my 3 cell phones on Sprint, T-Mobile and Verizon work barely work at home during the outage didn't help. Will try digging again for it.

I did find it the other night at https://jamsoe.com/product/rosewill...with-on-off-switch-led-display-panel-support/ but their cert's expired now and I'd never heard of that retailer nor could I find anything on them (e.g. at Store Ratings & Reviews | ResellerRatings.com | Find Trusted Stores).

Last night, I was about to give up and strongly considering picking up 2 drives (2 different models, if possible) from 2.5" 2TB and 3TB CMR drives for Tivo Bolts that I can still find: one to use first and another as a spare when the first one dies. 2.5" 2+ TB drives that aren't shingled are hard enough to find as it is. Probably everything out there is old stock.


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## tommage1

cwerdna said:


> Sorry to bump this thread, I see someone here was using a Sabrent EC-7F83. What fan-cooled external enclosure to get for 3.5" drive? recommended a EC-UEIS7 Hard Drive Enclosure.


Just FYI, since the Sabrent is pretty cheap when you can find it, I bought a few as spares over the years. I got a couple that actually have separate Sata power and data connections, not the one piece. Along with the separate IDE connections. Everything else is the same. Not sure if a later or earlier variation. So you can search for the Sabrent but would need to see pictures of the inside to see which connections it has, was a surprise to me when they arrived.

One more thing, most of these enclosures are OLD, and mention a drive capacity they will handle. But if done correctly, ie connecting direct to the Sata data port on the drive, the listed capacities are irrelevant, the enclosure is just being used to hold and power the drive. Even then, in some cases listed capacities were for what were the largest drives available at the time (like 2TB), does not mean they will not work with larger. I use a dock rated for 2TB (since a dock one piece Sata connection for the drive and ESata/USB2 for the dock itself) but have used up to 14TB with no problems. The one thing I would recommend with these older enclosures if using with a really large drive is perhaps upgrade the power supply/wart. I think they come with 12v 2A, may want to get a 3 or 4A supply. Same voltage, 12v, and correct polarity of course.


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## tommage1

cwerdna said:


> I did find it the other night at https://jamsoe.com/product/rosewill...with-on-off-switch-led-display-panel-support/ but their cert's expired now and I'd never heard of that retailer nor could I find anything on them (e.g. at Store Ratings & Reviews | ResellerRatings.com | Find Trusted Stores).


Interesting. Seems they are/were located in US. And have a phone number. Maybe give them a call. Pretty good price for the 304 ($40), if they have maybe get a couple, as you have found not easy to locate that model. Hey if the company is that small/obscure maybe they'd give a discount on multiples, especially since an "obsolete" model. If using paypal or ccard could always file a claim if you don't get.


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## cwerdna

Thanks for the advice. However, if the Sabrent enclosures only have 4-pin Molex power and require the use of a dodgy, potentially fire hazard 4-pin Molex to SATA power connector, that's ruled out for me.

I do not want a potential fire hazard. House will eventually have many periods of being unattended for many hours or days at a time besides me being asleep.

I just dropped Jamsoe a note via their site asking if the item's in stock.


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## tommage1

cwerdna said:


> Thanks for the advice. However, if the Sabrent enclosures only have 4-pin Molex power and require the use of a dodgy, potentially fire hazard 4-pin Molex to SATA power connector, that's ruled out for me.


No, that's what I was saying, two of the Sabrents I got had the molex AND separate Sata power and data connections. Which is why you'd need to see the inside of the enclosures to determine which connections the one being sold has. However the IDE/molex and Sata power connections are on the same "line". So not sure if that makes a difference.


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## tommage1

I did a bit more research on the possible fire hazard with molex to Sata adapter cables. SEEMS may have to do with quality of the adapter. One site recommends the Cables Matter 3 pack, only $7 (and they were considering the fire hazard). I may get a 3 pack to replace what I have.

Figured the 304 enclosure would be a better way to go. Might buy a couple if available. However I did find a picture of the innards. The Sata power cable only has 4 wires going in. Same as the molex to Sata power adapter. The Sata power connection from my desktop power supply has 5 wires going in, the fifth is orange. Sooooo, not sure if the fire hazard is caused by cheaply manufactured adapters or the 4 vs 5 wires going into the Sata power connection. I have not seen any enclosures with a 5 wire Sata power connection, not even the 304.


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## cwerdna

Regarding safety or good/bad of SATA power connectors on those enclosures/adapters, the reddit post has a link to 



. Not clear if his hypothesis on on what makes such a SATA power connector good or bad is on the mark.


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## tommage1

cwerdna said:


> Not clear if his hypothesis on on what makes such a SATA power connector good or bad is on the mark.


Interesting video. Makes sense, but no way to know if really true? I checked the Sata power connections on some of my computer power supplies. They have the "push in" type wire connections which are supposedly good. The Sabrent with the separate Sata power connection has the molded type wire connection, supposedly bad. Not sure about the Rosewill 304, cannot see in the picture. So the "problem" may be ANY Sata power connector, not just those on Molex to Sata adapters.............. I will always being thinking about this now, will look at all my Sata power connectors, enclosures, adapters and computer power supplies (maybe cheap computer power supplies have the "bad" type connectors also.)

For kicks I called the Jamsoe "company". Someone answered the phone with "hello", no mention of any company. Guy did not seem to know much. May be some sort of drop ship type thing, place an order, then it gets shipped from who knows where. I myself have had trouble with drop ship type sellers, they may have the wrong prices since it is not really THEIR products/supply. They are like middle men for multiple other companies/places, they get commissions? However for a relatively low priced item like this enclosure might be worth a shot? Since nearly impossible to find elsewhere.


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## cwerdna

I also have not received a reply from Jamsoe about the Rosewill RX304. I asked via the form at https://jamsoe.com/contact-us/.


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## cwerdna

The same guy as in post 235 took apart some of his adapters, including failed one, further speculating on possible reasons for failures. I don't know if he's on the mark.





I agree that there could potentially be a problem with any SATA power connector, but maybe it is more likely for something that goes from just 4 wires and splits each wire across 4 pins?

I hadn't realized the split and each voltage being split across 3 pins in parallel (see Why are there so many pins on a SATA power connector? and Serial ATA - Wikipedia).


tommage1 said:


> Interesting video. Makes sense, but no way to know if really true? I checked the Sata power connections on some of my computer power supplies. They have the "push in" type wire connections which are supposedly good. The Sabrent with the separate Sata power connection has the molded type wire connection, supposedly bad. Not sure about the Rosewill 304, cannot see in the picture. So the "problem" may be ANY Sata power connector, not just those on Molex to Sata adapters.............. I will always being thinking about this now, will look at all my Sata power connectors, enclosures, adapters and computer power supplies (maybe cheap computer power supplies have the "bad" type connectors


I found pics at TE4 Bolt upgrade with external drive of the RX304 and it looks like it has molded SATA power connector, which that guy guesses is "bad". Zoom in on in the pics/open in a new tab and zoom in.

But, even if that speculation is right, it's possible the product has undergone several revisions before or after it and whatever remains in the sales channel/floating around unsold is unknown. Could be same, better or worse.

The manual at Are you a human? seems to also show a molded rear portion of the power connector but of a different style than the above pics.


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## gsutkin

OP here. So tommage1, are you going to replace your Sabrent enclosures? Am I correct that we have the power connection that may be dangerous?


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