# Advice sought: HR21 "upgrade" commitment?



## dp2008 (Dec 30, 2007)

DIRECTV has been calling me for weeks telling me that I must "upgrade" my HR10-250 to a new receiver (presumably the HR21) in order to maintain my current level of service. They are offering the new receiver for free, provided I agree to a 2-year commitment to use it.

On three occasions, I've told the CSR that I'm open-minded about their receiver, but I'd like the opportunity to try their product before I commit to use it for the next two years. No dice: sign up for two years or lose your current channels. That's the deal, bub.

Has anyone been successful at getting a test-drive of the HR2x receiver? I've tried calling customer retention, but I'm not feeling any love. Your advice appreciated.

dp2008


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## madbeachcat (Jan 31, 2002)

dp2008 said:


> DIRECTV has been calling me for weeks telling me that I must "upgrade" my HR10-250 to a new receiver (presumably the HR21) in order to maintain my current level of service. They are offering the new receiver for free, provided I agree to a 2-year commitment to use it.
> 
> On three occasions, I've told the CSR that I'm open-minded about their receiver, but I'd like the opportunity to try their product before I commit to use it for the next two years. No dice: sign up for two years or lose your current channels. That's the deal, bub.
> 
> ...


As far as I know, DirecTv does not give trial periods. So, you need to do as much research as possible before getting it. Personally, I like my HR-20, but there are others who don't. You should check out the link link below, while doing your research.

http://www.dbstalk.com


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

a year or so ago there was a trial plan advertised but i havent seen that in a while....must not have worked the way they wanted


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

If you have an HR10-250 *and* the protection plan *and* your HR10-250 dies it will be replaced with an HR2x with no change in commitment. Of course, the HR2x will require the slimline dish which will be included.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

Actually the HR20 does NOT "require" the new dish, it will work fine but it just won't get the new channels. If the HR10 dies they will replace it with an HR20 but you usually won't get the new dish without the 2yrs added. There are a lot of variables with this scenario though but the OFFICIAL policy is replace the HR10 with the HR20 and leave the 3LNB dish unless the customer upgrades with a new agreement.


Jon J said:


> If you have an HR10-250 *and* the protection plan *and* your HR10-250 dies it will be replaced with an HR2x with no change in commitment. Of course, the HR2x will require the slimline dish which will be included.


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## BruceShultes (Oct 2, 2006)

If you want to see what the HR21 is like, check out your local Best Buy or Circuit City.

Both of the ones in my area have at least one HR21 set up and connected to one of their floor model HDTVs. Either store will let you play with the DVR a while to see whether you like it.

This might not be true for the stores in your area, but shouldn't be hard to find out.


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

incog-neato said:


> Actually the HR20 does NOT "require" the new dish, it will work fine but it just won't get the new channels. If the HR10 dies they will replace it with an HR20 but you usually won't get the new dish without the 2yrs added. There are a lot of variables with this scenario though but the OFFICIAL policy is replace the HR10 with the HR20 and leave the 3LNB dish unless the customer upgrades with a new agreement.


Having experienced the death of an HR10 and replacement with an HR20, I can attest that you are *wrong*.


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

Jon J said:


> Having experienced the death of an HR10 and replacement with an HR20, I can attest that you are *wrong*.


Wrong in what way?


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

I'm wrong with what? The HR20 won't work with 3LNB? Not true. I have a whole office full of them running Ku only. That they will automatically give you the dish when they replace the receiver with no agreement? Like I said before, "There are a lot of variables with this scenario (mainly what DMA you reside in) but the OFFICIAL policy is that under the protection plan to just replace the HR10 with the HR20 and leave the 3LNB dish unless the customer upgrades with a new agreement."


Jon J said:


> Having experienced the death of an HR10 and replacement with an HR20, I can attest that you are *wrong*.


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

jimb726 said:


> Wrong in what way?


This part specifically:

"If the HR10 dies they will replace it with an HR20 but you usually won't get the new dish without the 2yrs added."


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

Jon J said:


> This part specifically:
> 
> "If the HR10 dies they will replace it with an HR20 but you usually won't get the new dish without the 2yrs added."


Again, which part?

To make it easier:

(A) they will replace it with an HR20?

(B) you usually won't get the new dish without the 2 yrs?


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

Jon J said:


> This part specifically:
> 
> "If the HR10 dies they will replace it with an HR20 but you usually won't get the new dish without the 2yrs added."


If its the commitment you are talking about, then you need to call and get it corrected. I have had two replaced under the Protection Plan and in both cases my commitment was not extended and both are marked as owned. Thats being said if you are going to push for owned then you ought to have the protection plan because as soon as they are out of warranty any repairs become your responsibility.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

You are correct. Under the protection policy there IS NO COMMITMENT if we replace the HR10 with an HR20. Also, if the HR10 was owned the HR20 will also be owned (although there really is no reason to own an HR20 because if you sell it someone at a later time it will be LEASED for that person regardless of whether YOU owned it plus your warranty is better on leased equipment).

HOWEVER, if they ALSO give you the 5LNB dish UPGRADE (*which is NOT required to use the HR20 you got under the PP other then to get the additional channels*) you more then likely (depending on a number of factors mainly your DMA) WILL BE subject to the 2yr agreement. The HR20 is a replacement the 5LNB dish install is an UPGRADE. What your experience was (getting the 5lnb dish upgrade with no add'l commitment) is not the general policy.

EDIT: Sorry, I quoted the wrong person .... fixed



Jon J said:


> This part specifically:
> 
> "If the HR10 dies they will replace it with an HR20 but you usually won't get the new dish without the 2yrs added."


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## dp2008 (Dec 30, 2007)

Jon J said:


> If you have an HR10-250 *and* the protection plan *and* your HR10-250 dies it will be replaced with an HR2x with no change in commitment. Of course, the HR2x will require the slimline dish which will be included.


Wow, this is a great suggestion. My HR10-250 isn't currently covered under the protection plan, but I've been thinking about adding that coverage in case it, umm, meets with an unfortunate accident.

Is this a reasonable approach? Is DTV going to hassle me if I try to add coverage today, or if my 10-250 fails only 3 months into my coverage plan?

dp2008


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

dp2008 said:


> Wow, this is a great suggestion. My HR10-250 isn't currently covered under the protection plan, but I've been thinking about adding that coverage in case it, umm, meets with an unfortunate accident.
> 
> Is this a reasonable approach? Is DTV going to hassle me if I try to add coverage today, or if my 10-250 fails only 3 months into my coverage plan?
> 
> dp2008


Keep in mind, DirecTV is only protecting itself at your expense. It seems that DTV is wanting a fee for everything. Even if you have the protection plan the commitment still sneaks itself in there some way. DTV may correct that issue but I wouldn't count on it for sure.

My suggestion would be to hold them accountable for what they say. Record them. Of coarse tell them you're being recorded. Get the CSR's name and ID # verify the deal that you and the CSR agreed upon which includes payment, receivers, installs or whatever else. If the agreement is not carried out, you have proof that this offer was given to you.

It seems that customers need to do more to protect themselves.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

how does one easily record a phone call? my machine does give an option to do it ( i think) but how can you be expected to keep a 5+ minute call archived on the limited capacity of most machines today?


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

newsposter said:


> how does one easily record a phone call? my machine does give an option to do it ( i think) but how can you be expected to keep a 5+ minute call archived on the limited capacity of most machines today?


I think the more important thing is to make sure you get all of the CSR's information. If there ever was an issue and you have that information, it is in them to provide the recorded conversation that you were not told that. They tell you before every call this it is recorded. I had an issue when I got the first HR20 back in December of 2007. I had been told in error by a CSR that my HR10 would recieve my HD locals in Cleveland when we moved back last summer. After the install and finding out I did not recieve the locals, I called and reference the phone call using the information I had saved (name, id, etc), they researched it (supposedly), listened to the call and sent me a free HR20 because of what their CSR told me. Now they may have decided to just give the box to me rather than actually research it, but having a ID number, name , date and time of a call certainly adds a lot of legitamacy to the call. IMHO


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

Equipment must be on the PP a minimum of 30 days to be covered so 90 days would work.


dp2008 said:


> Wow, this is a great suggestion. My HR10-250 isn't currently covered under the protection plan, but I've been thinking about adding that coverage in case it, umm, meets with an unfortunate accident.
> 
> Is this a reasonable approach? Is DTV going to hassle me if I try to add coverage today, or if my 10-250 fails only 3 months into my coverage plan?
> 
> dp2008


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

I take a microphone from my computer and record the calls off the phones recorder and archive them as wav or mp3 files.


newsposter said:


> how does one easily record a phone call? my machine does give an option to do it ( i think) but how can you be expected to keep a 5+ minute call archived on the limited capacity of most machines today?


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## Cruzan (Dec 21, 2001)

I was offered and received an HR-21 with no commitment. I now have both the HR-21 and the HR10 running simultaneously, which is an ideal world. The HR-21 does some things well, but there is no equivalent to wishlists (they say there is, but it doesn't work.) The HR-21 is much better for browsing live TV though.

I have been a DTV customer for 15 years. I'm sure that's part of why I didn't have to commit to any more time.


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## dp2008 (Dec 30, 2007)

Cruzan said:


> I was offered and received an HR-21 with no commitment. I now have both the HR-21 and the HR10 running simultaneously, which is an ideal world.


Can you give me more details about this offer? Did you call and request it? Did it arrive via email or telephone? When did you get it?



Cruzan said:


> I have been a DTV customer for 15 years. I'm sure that's part of why I didn't have to commit to any more time.


If you signed up on the day that DTV launched service, you've been a customer for just under 13.5 years.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

Possibly, but more then likely it's because of WHERE (the DMA) you live in.


Cruzan said:


> I have been a DTV customer for 15 years. I'm sure that's part of why I didn't have to commit to any more time.


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## DallasFlier (Jan 23, 2003)

incog-neato said:


> Also, if the HR10 was owned the HR20 will also be owned (although there really is no reason to own an HR20 because if you sell it someone at a later time it will be LEASED for that person regardless of whether YOU owned it


I'd just LOVE to see them try to enforce that - legally, there's no way they can just arbitrarily announce to someone that now they are LEASING them a piece of equipment which that someone previously PURCHASED from a third party who legally OWNED it themselves. I guess if they want to piss off a customer and force them to head to the competition, they could refuse to activate it, but I don't think there's a THING they could do legally if they DID activate it, then tried to reclaim it later if the person cancels service, claiming it was LEASED. I'd just LOVE to have them try that with me, I'd have them answering to a judge in local small claims court so fast their heads would spin. :down:


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

DallasFlier said:


> I'd just LOVE to see them try to enforce that - legally, there's no way they can just arbitrarily announce to someone that now they are LEASING them a piece of equipment which that someone previously PURCHASED from a third party who legally OWNED it themselves. I guess if they want to piss off a customer and force them to head to the competition, they could refuse to activate it, but I don't think there's a THING they could do legally if they DID activate it, then tried to reclaim it later if the person cancels service, claiming it was LEASED. I'd just LOVE to have them try that with me, I'd have them answering to a judge in local small claims court so fast their heads would spin. :down:


I seriously doubt that they would put a policy in place that their legal group did not first put their stamp of approval on. If I am not mistaken, you agreed to binding arbitration as a method of resolution, so small claims court would not be an option.


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

Send them an email using this link:

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/customer/howToReachUs.jsp

Confirm their commitments using an email something like this:

---------------------------------------------
_As your record shows, I called Customer Installation Support (CIS) at 1-888-355-7530 at ___ on ___ and spoke with ___ with an employee identifier number of ___. I accepted ____'s offer that included the following key points:
1...
2...
3...
4...

Please review your records and confirm that all of the information is true and email me at ____.

Sincerely,

___
account
phone
address_
-------------------------------------------------

This same email boiler plate works with almost any vendor.

- Craig


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## DallasFlier (Jan 23, 2003)

jimb726 said:


> I seriously doubt that they would put a policy in place that their legal group did not first put their stamp of approval on. If I am not mistaken, you agreed to binding arbitration as a method of resolution, so small claims court would not be an option.


Who says its a policy that their legal department approved? Who says its even a policy? Could well be the same "uninformed CSR roulette" that results in a customer being told that they're under a 2 year commitment and owe and will be billed for 12 months cancellation if they cancel now, when the last 12 printed statements/bills they have in their possession show a 1 year commitment in writing. (Another active thread on the board right now.) I'll bet you a month's salary that that's not a policy reviewed by their legal department, and one could get redress through court - or possibly through one's State Attorney General.

Binding arbitration may well be required if one has a contract dispute, but I'm pretty sure I could compel them to show up in court if they attempted to claim ownership of a piece of equipment which I had legally purchased previously from a third party and had valid proof of purchase/ownership. That hardly falls under the terms of the contract disputes.

Realistically? - I doubt court would be necessary. I would imagine that a registered demand letter sent to the office of the President of DTV, with cc: to my State Attorney General would be more than sufficient for quick resolution.


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

DallasFlier said:


> Who says its a policy that their legal department approved? Who says its even a policy? Could well be the same "uninformed CSR roulette" that results in a customer being told that they're under a 2 year commitment and owe and will be billed for 12 months cancellation if they cancel now, when the last 12 printed statements/bills they have in their possession show a 1 year commitment in writing. (Another active thread on the board right now.) I'll bet you a month's salary that that's not a policy reviewed by their legal department, and one could get redress through court - or possibly through one's State Attorney General.
> 
> Binding arbitration may well be required if one has a contract dispute, but I'm pretty sure I could compel them to show up in court if they attempted to claim ownership of a piece of equipment which I had legally purchased previously from a third party and had valid proof of purchase/ownership. That hardly falls under the terms of the contract disputes.
> 
> Realistically? - I doubt court would be necessary. I would imagine that a registered demand letter sent to the office of the President of DTV, with cc: to my State Attorney General would be more than sufficient for quick resolution.


Look I understand what you are saying, however i find it very hard to believe that they have dozens of free lance CSR's out there doing their own thing. While I certainly agree the tactics are poor, I just find it very hard to believe that company of that size would risk any type of exposure. And if I am not mistaken it is a policy that anytime you active an advanced piece of equipment a two year commitment begins. Once again I find it very hard to believe that dozens of CSR's picked this up on their own and are running with it behind the scenes at Directv. Now method of delivery or lack thereof is very believeable. But I just dont buy into the fact that one of the biggest things talked about with Directv, (2 yr commitment), was not run past a legal department to see if it will stand up to any potential challenges.


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## DallasFlier (Jan 23, 2003)

jimb726 said:


> Look I understand what you are saying, however i find it very hard to believe that they have dozens of free lance CSR's out there doing their own thing. While I certainly agree the tactics are poor, I just find it very hard to believe that company of that size would risk any type of exposure. And if I am not mistaken it is a policy that anytime you active an advanced piece of equipment a two year commitment begins. Once again I find it very hard to believe that dozens of CSR's picked this up on their own and are running with it behind the scenes at Directv. Now method of delivery or lack thereof is very believeable. But I just dont buy into the fact that one of the biggest things talked about with Directv, (2 yr commitment), was not run past a legal department to see if it will stand up to any potential challenges.


2 year commitment will stand up just fine, UNLESS you were told that it would be 1 year, and UNLESS you also have multiple WRITTEN bills/statements from DirecTV which state IN WRITING a 1 year commitment. PLEASE don't tell me you believe under the above stated circumstances a 2 year commitment will stand up!

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=299654

Besides, that's just another example I threw out. We were talking about them informing you that a Tivo receiver which you had LEGALLY PURCHASED from a seller who LEGALLY OWNED it belonged to them and that you had just been leasing it and they were demanding it back if you discontinued service for any reason. Again, PLEASE don't tell me you think this will stand up! If you think that, I have a bridge in San Francisco I'd like to sell you.


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

DallasFlier said:


> 2 year commitment will stand up just fine, UNLESS you were told that it would be 1 year, and UNLESS you also have multiple WRITTEN bills/statements from DirecTV which state IN WRITING a 1 year commitment. PLEASE don't tell me you believe under the above stated circumstances a 2 year commitment will stand up!
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=299654
> 
> Besides, that's just another example I threw out. We were talking about them informing you that a Tivo receiver which you had LEGALLY PURCHASED from a seller who LEGALLY OWNED it belonged to them and that you had just been leasing it and they were demanding it back if you discontinued service for any reason. Again, PLEASE don't tell me you think this will stand up! If you think that, I have a bridge in San Francisco I'd like to sell you.


I didnt realize you were talking about TiVo recievers. I thought the example was concerning a HR20 from a third party. HR10's are a completely different game. I have nevere ever seen anything in regard to my commitment in writing from directv, granted I have only been with them since 2001 so maybe in the past you may have gotten something on paper. Since it is their written policy that advanced equipment triggers a 2 yr commitment and non advanced will trigger a one year commitment, unless you have an agents voice on tape telling you that you only have a one year commitment on advanced equipment, I do think it would stand up. The policy is spelled out, and as they say, ignorance of the law is no excuse. The only exception to this, as has been spelled out in this thred, is the protection plan, owned should be replaced with owned, leased should be replaced with leased, and it should not trigger a commitment extension.


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## Cruzan (Dec 21, 2001)

dp2008 said:


> Can you give me more details about this offer? Did you call and request it? Did it arrive via email or telephone? When did you get it?
> 
> If you signed up on the day that DTV launched service, you've been a customer for just under 13.5 years.


They called me. It was a hard offer to refuse - free HR21, no commitment. I don't have MPEG locals, so not getting an HR20 was a drag, but their new box looks cool. Having an HR10 and an HR21 works out very very well. although if I didn't have a Harmony remote it would be hell.

I guess it just seemed like 15 years! Are you sure about how long they've been around? I started somewhere in the mid 90's.


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## Citivas (Oct 12, 2000)

dp2008 said:


> DIRECTV has been calling me for weeks telling me that I must "upgrade" my HR10-250 to a new receiver (presumably the HR21) in order to maintain my current level of service. They are offering the new receiver for free, provided I agree to a 2-year commitment to use it.
> 
> On three occasions, I've told the CSR that I'm open-minded about their receiver, but I'd like the opportunity to try their product before I commit to use it for the next two years. No dice: sign up for two years or lose your current channels. That's the deal, bub.
> 
> ...


I got my HR20 last year when "alpha" would have been a generous description of the state of the software. I had major problems immediately -- within days -- but they refused to return or even replace the box, claiming I had to wait out their software fixes. I spent 6 months as a paying customer before I had more than 60% reliability that my shows would actually record. So I doubt you'll get a trial.


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