# Tivo Edge Hardware Refresh This Year?



## omelet1978

Hi,

The current Tivo Edge came out 2 years ago and I was just wondering if there were any rumors of it being refreshed this year with an updated design?

I did a search on here as well as google but did not see anything. I'm moving to a place where I can have cable again so debating on whether to purchase the Tivo Edge or hold off a few months.

Thanks!


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## MrDell

omelet1978 said:


> Hi,
> 
> The current Tivo Edge came out 2 years ago and I was just wondering if there were any rumors of it being refreshed this year with an updated design?
> 
> I did a search on here as well as google but did not see anything. I'm moving to a place where I can have cable again so debating on whether to purchase the Tivo Edge or hold off a few months.
> 
> Thanks!


I really don't think that there will be any new boxes in the near or distant future from TiVo. I think that the last "sale " a few weeks ago was to blow off remaining inventory in the warehouse. I could be wrong, but with the loss of cable card support and the popularity of streaming there is little incentive to invest in new hardware. I for one feel sad because I really love my TiVo and I am holding on to the bitter end until it's no longer supported.


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## tommiet

I agree with McDell.... TiVo's hardware days are over. Makes you wonder how they will support folks with a lifetime Edge device. For me, getting a Edge with lifetime support is really living on the edge! If you called with a Bolt issue, they would offer you an Edge. What's going to happen to folks that have Edge issues in the future... Gonna get "tuff kitties" when you call after the warranty runs out.


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## southerndoc

I still think -- or at least hope -- that they are working on IPTV solutions with the MSO's, but so far there's been no evidence of it.


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## tommiet

Streaming, cloud dvr's and VOD options are killing local hardware DVR's. Home dvr usage will end up being a hobby for folks. I can understand why TiVo is not investing money in new hardware.


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## cwoody222

MrDell said:


> I really don't think that there will be any new boxes in the near or distant future from TiVo. I think that the last "sale " a few weeks ago was to blow off remaining inventory in the warehouse. I could be wrong, but with the loss of cable card support and the popularity of streaming there is little incentive to invest in new hardware. I for one feel sad because I really love my TiVo and I am holding on to the bitter end until it's no longer supported.


They do sales every year.

This year's sale proves nothing more than it did any other year.


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## cwoody222

southerndoc said:


> I still think -- or at least hope -- that they are working on IPTV solutions with the MSO's, but so far there's been no evidence of it.


There is no IPTV "standard" for TiVo to build for. Each TiVo would have to be configured to work with a particular cable operator.

Don't hold your breath for a retail IPTV TiVo. It's technically highly infeasible.


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## MrDell

cwoody222 said:


> They do sales every year.
> 
> This year's sale proves nothing more than it did any other year.


I probably should have said "previous sale " &#8230;. I didn't mean "last sale " to insinuate "final sale "&#8230;. We probably will see more sales to come but really not sure if we'll see new hardware &#8230;. The question that the OP asked.


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## tommiet

I don't think TiVo would tell ANYONE that the end of the DVR's is coming. They will clean out the warehouse first and let others know when your DVR dies... tuff kitties....

TiVo's DVR's should be wearing a red uniform.... See if anyone can figure that one out.


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## NashGuy

omelet1978 said:


> Hi,
> 
> The current Tivo Edge came out 2 years ago and I was just wondering if there were any rumors of it being refreshed this year with an updated design?
> 
> I did a search on here as well as google but did not see anything. I'm moving to a place where I can have cable again so debating on whether to purchase the Tivo Edge or hold off a few months.
> 
> Thanks!


I'm also skeptical that we'll see a new TiVo model DVR come out this year. And even if we did, I'm not really sure what they would do to improve it beyond the existing Edge, which has 6 cable tuners, a 2 TB hard drive (storage for about 300 hrs of HD recordings), a voice remote, and already supports 4K, Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos. Seems like existing users find its processor to perform plenty fast. About the only thing spec-wise that I can see that might get upgraded would be its wifi; the Edge has wifi 5 (802.11ac) while the newest standard is wifi 6 (802.11ax).

There's just really nowhere further for TiVo to go with their cable DVRs in terms of hardware. Yes, they could always redesign the UI or add new features in the software but if they do that, those updates will be rolled out to the Edge too. So *if* we ever see TiVo bring another model cable DVR to market (which is a bit doubtful at this point for various reasons), my guess is that it would simply have a different plastic case and a different model name but almost exactly the same hardware on the inside.

So IMO there's no good reason to hold off on buying a TiVo if that's what you want. (Although the advice from a lot of folks here would be to save money and buy a used or refurbished-with-warranty TiVo Roamio with lifetime service and save several hundred bucks versus the $950 cost of a new Edge with lifetime service.) I don't know which cable company you'd be using but be aware that Comcast for awhile now has been adding new HD channels in IPTV format only (and therefore unavailable to TiVo users) while Charter just sent out a survey to TiVo users about potentially pulling the plug on supporting TiVo. That doesn't mean that TiVos will cease to work with either operator any time soon but they're things to keep in mind before potentially plunking down nearly a thousand bucks...


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## dmurphy

I love my TiVos. Always have, ever since my first Hughes GXCEBOT. Right now, I've got a pair of Bolts and a Roamio Plus in service (plus a gaggle of Minis of various flavors ...) Also have an extra Roamio Plus on the shelf. All with lifetime service.

I declined to upgrade to the Edge, since I didn't feel it was a compelling enough change from the Bolts ... and now, I'm glad I didn't.

We're not quite at the end of the runway with TiVo yet, but I can see it from here. And it's, honestly, not looking too bad.

My simple, easy answer is Channels DVR. I have a big fat Synology NAS at home, and I installed Channels DVR as a service on it. I have a pair of HDHomeRun Prime cablecard boxes on my network, and the whole setup is working //absolutely flawlessly//.

Each TV has an Apple TV box anyway, so we just dropped the Channels DVR app onto it, and I'm in business.

It's not quite "as slick" as TiVo, but it's still a pretty darn fine interface. It's even faster to tune channels, and if I'm being honest.... the out-of-home experience is about 9,200% better than TiVo's ever was or will be.

So ... yeah. Back to the Edge. Will there be a hardware refresh of some sort? Who knows. The real question is ... will I care?

And for the first time in over 20 years... I think the answer is going to be a very simple "no."

Ouch. That hurts.


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## slowbiscuit

Yeah, the out of home Tivo experience really sucks. Tivo has never been able to get the network code to work reliably. 
Glad to see that if I need to ditch Comcast because of card support or IPTV that Channels can be an option (folks are using it to frontend Youtube TV).


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## dmurphy

slowbiscuit said:


> Yeah, the out of home Tivo experience really sucks. Tivo has never been able to get the network code to work reliably.
> Glad to see that if I need to ditch Comcast because of card support or IPTV that Channels can be an option (folks are using it to frontend Youtube TV).


It's actually even better than that. Channels can also manage/guide/record from TV Anywhere streams. So truth be told, I don't even "really" need a CableCard for my Fios service... It can actually grab Verizon's IP streams and leverage those instead of recording "off the wire" via the HDHomeRun.

Super happy with it ... When the time comes to pull the plug, I'll miss the TiVo Guy and the sounds, but as "just another app" on my Apple TV, Channels seems to be a great option.


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## southerndoc

Channels is awesome. However, I don't like some of the resolution of TVE on some channels. Mainly one or two bother me. However, Channels is pretty much free and works really well.

If Channels can implement this, there is no excuse why TiVo couldn't do something similar in order to survive.


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## dmurphy

southerndoc said:


> Channels is awesome. However, I don't like some of the resolution of TVE on some channels. Mainly one or two bother me. However, Channels is pretty much free and works really well.
> 
> If Channels can implement this, there is no excuse why TiVo couldn't do something similar in order to survive.


Channels actually embodies almost *exactly* what I wanted TiVo to become. A kick-butt home media server with the TiVo interface as an app on Apple TV (or Roku or whatever your flavor of streamer is.)

They didn't do it, but Channels did ... so they'll have to be my exit strategy.

Thankfully there's very little I actually need TVE for, as I do have the cablecard decoder. I think there's a very small handful of channels I get via TVE that I don't via cablecard -- primarily some of the Fox Sports channels, since they force the DRM bit on cablecard. Only DRM bits on Fios are for Fox channels and HBO ... I've seen Police Academy enough times that I could safely drop HBO, so it's of no import to me.

I know many folks here are going to see Cablecard support devolve quickly, but as a Fios customer, I expect it to hang on for quite a long time. Fios' entire authentication mechanism is Cablecard based; even within their latest FiOS ONE set-top boxes, they use a CableCard (whether PCMCIA or embedded I don't know) authentication & authorization scheme. So cutting cablecard support would mean dumping all of their own set-top boxes as well.


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## slowbiscuit

I've seen more than one post saying that Comcast will support cards until 2030 as part of their settlement with Tivo, so yeah I don't see cards going away soon. On some providers at least.


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## NashGuy

slowbiscuit said:


> I've seen more than one post saying that Comcast will support cards until 2030 as part of their settlement with Tivo, so yeah I don't see cards going away soon. On some providers at least.


Comcast signed a 15-year patent licensing deal with TiVo that will expire in 2031. That's the only thing that was publicly announced involving the words "Comcast, TiVo, deal, and 2031."

Comcast and TiVo end their lengthy patent battle

I'm pretty sure that got twisted via wishful thinking on this forum into "Comcast made a deal with TiVo to support CableCARD until 2031 (or 2030)." It's _possible_ that such an agreement was secretly part of the overall deal they signed, and for some reason neither side chose to publicly announce it, but I doubt it. Seriously, if that was the case, why wouldn't TiVo trumpet the fact since it would help support sales of their CableCARD DVRs? And why would Comcast agree to continue supporting an old type of technology that may prevent or complicate their ability to upgrade their network in the future?

I don't see any reason to believe that Comcast will dump CableCARD so long as they continue to transmit TV via QAM and have a network that allows the CableCARD's OOB communication. But at some point, probably before 2030, one or both of those things will change. And when it does, CableCARD devices such as TiVos won't work with Comcast cable TV any longer. But that could still be years away.


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## southerndoc

I think Comcast still uses a lot of CableCARDs in its own devices. I don't foresee them completely eliminating them for at least 5 more years. 10 years may be a reasonable time frame, 5 years is aggressive. So it's possible that they could support them until 2030.

I really hope TiVo works a deal with Comcast and other major MSO's to record IPTV. When I emailed a few corporate officers, one of them replied saying that they do not plan to exit the retail market. Now what that means is anyone's guess: still sell Stream 4k devices, but not sell DVR's? I was told that the only solution to work if you have IPTV is to get a Stream 4k and subscribe to Sling. Not really the best option IMO, and there are channels missing from that lineup.


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## TigerClaw

There's the Tivo Stream 4K, which is a streaming device, They'll survive as long as they keep updating it with new versions of it.
It can be used to stream other IPTV services, I believe its fully integrated to work with Sling TV if you have a subscription.


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## lessd

southerndoc said:


> I think Comcast still uses a lot of CableCARDs in its own devices. I don't foresee them completely eliminating them for at least 5 more years. 10 years may be a reasonable time frame, 5 years is aggressive. So it's possible that they could support them until 2030.
> 
> I really hope TiVo works a deal with Comcast and other major MSO's to record IPTV. When I emailed a few corporate officers, one of them replied saying that they do not plan to exit the retail market. Now what that means is anyone's guess: still sell Stream 4k devices, but not sell DVR's? I was told that the only solution to work if you have IPTV is to get a Stream 4k and subscribe to Sling. Not really the best option IMO, and there are channels missing from that lineup.


Comcast no longer charges for cable cards, when one of my cable cards went bad Comcast sent me two, and told me not to send back the bad one or the extra one they sent me. This is in the Hartford CT area.


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## apexadam

NashGuy said:


> I'm also skeptical that we'll see a new TiVo model DVR come out this year. And even if we did, I'm not really sure what they would do to improve it beyond the existing Edge, which has 6 cable tuners, a 2 TB hard drive (storage for about 300 hrs of HD recordings), a voice remote, and already supports 4K, Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos. Seems like existing users find its processor to perform plenty fast. About the only thing spec-wise that I can see that might get upgraded would be its wifi; the Edge has wifi 5 (802.11ac) while the newest standard is wifi 6 (802.11ax).
> 
> There's just really nowhere further for TiVo to go with their cable DVRs in terms of hardware. Yes, they could always redesign the UI or add new features in the software but if they do that, those updates will be rolled out to the Edge too. So _if_ we ever see TiVo bring another model cable DVR to market (which is a bit doubtful at this point for various reasons), my guess is that it would simply have a different plastic case and a different model name but almost exactly the same hardware on the inside.
> 
> So IMO there's no good reason to hold off on buying a TiVo if that's what you want. (Although the advice from a lot of folks here would be to save money and buy a used or refurbished-with-warranty TiVo Roamio with lifetime service and save several hundred bucks versus the $950 cost of a new Edge with lifetime service.) I don't know which cable company you'd be using but be aware that Comcast for awhile now has been adding new HD channels in IPTV format only (and therefore unavailable to TiVo users) while Charter just sent out a survey to TiVo users about potentially pulling the plug on supporting TiVo. That doesn't mean that TiVos will cease to work with either operator any time soon but they're things to keep in mind before potentially plunking down nearly a thousand bucks...


There is so much about the Tivo interface and organization that's WAY better than any streaming service I use and certainly better than a Cable Box. So sad about Tivo's demise.


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## MannyE

With streaming services quickly making cable obsolete, the only real use for a TIVO device would be for cord-cutters. And since they are obviously discouraging anyone from using Tivo DVRs for OTA recording, I don't think we will see any new consumer hardware from TIVO.


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## ericlhyman

I have been a tivo customer and longtime fan since the first model and I currently own 5 that are still in use. A company cannot survive and grow if it does not continue to innovate. One of the necessary innovations now is ATSC 3.0. We have not seem much innovation from the current owners of tivo. Perhaps the sale on the now quite old current models is an indication that something new will arrive soon.


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## ElT60

MannyE said:


> With streaming services quickly making cable obsolete, the only real use for a TIVO device would be for cord-cutters. And since they are obviously discouraging anyone from using Tivo DVRs for OTA recording, I don't think we will see any new consumer hardware from TIVO.


 Tivo 4K Stream is a consumer device from Tivo. At some point they'll need a "version 2.0". If Google eventually drops a new Android TV developer device, then that would be a clue that a new device has a pretty good indictator of upcoming movement there. . 

https://www.androidtv-guide.com/streaming-gaming/google-adt-3-developer-kit/

(ADT=3 came out in 2020. ADT-2 was 2018 so about due for some movement in the late 2022-23 time frame. ) 
so when ADT 4 comes, likely a reference design for Tivo to iterate an update upon. But until then if ADT 3 is the "developer baseline" then isn't much more Tivo to do if trying to do the lower cost device option. 

New DVR hardware? Probably not. Although Tivo did a ASTC 3.0 demo years ago.... they are way behind the curve in covering that for the ATSC 3.0 transition . Have no solid strategic traction in cable. 

However, Streaming live TV has shot up to being basically the same as cable in costs. The content makers are cranking the prices up. "Streaming" also. Have not seen last NetFlix price update. Price updates cued up at Disney. etc , etc.


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## ElT60

ericlhyman said:


> ... One of the necessary innovations now is ATSC 3.0. We have not seem much innovation from the current owners of tivo. Perhaps the sale on the now quite old current models is an indication that something new will arrive soon.


 Or current owners think ATSC 3.0 roll out is going to be more bumpy than folks thought 3-4 years ago so there is a intermediate term windoww where this old stuff if viable. if they load the cash upfront ( push most folks into All-in) then that pays lots of short term bills. 

the previous owner Tivo owners had a ATSC 3.0 USB dongle. I'm not sure if that will pass muster in the DRM world that is forming around ATSC 3.0 . ( Tivo has leaned on "tuning adapters " before. ) that isn't a good solution, but it can be a convenient excuse not to do much. ("Oh we'll blow the dust off that demo USB stick . ( really do need modern implementations of decoders for H.265, AV1 , etc internally tough. )


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