# Walking Dead 'Try' 3/22/15 | Talking Dead 3/22/15 No preview Spoilers



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Rick derailed and Michonne shut it down before it got worse. 
TD knew some fans wanted a geeky guest. Yvette is serious about TWD. 
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10442927#post10442927


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## maggie2101 (Feb 22, 2003)

I don't know who those other two people besides Carl were on The Talking Dead?


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

One is Gale Ann Hurd, one the producers of the show; the other is Yvette Nicole Brown, who co-starred on Community. She's a super-fan of the show and is always super well-prepared.


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## SnakeEyes (Dec 26, 2000)

Really liked today's episode. Much lifted directly from issue #75. Also liked the carl story. Looks like they are building Enid up since Sophia came out of the barn in the show.


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## SnakeEyes (Dec 26, 2000)

BTW... anyone else notice the jacket Chandler was wearing on Talking Dead? Not identical but it looked pretty familiar.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

That tree made for a nice segment, but that seemed like a really BAD place to be with a hoard of walkers going by!

Is it just me, or did that blonde-haired "W" walker tied to the tree seem a lot like what Carol had described she'd do to Sam?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

JLucPicard said:


> That tree made for a nice segment, but that seemed like a really BAD place to be with a hoard of walkers going by!
> 
> Is it just me, or did that blonde-haired "W" walker tied to the tree seem a lot like what Carol had described she'd do to Sam?


That was going to be my question! I forgot to check to see if that Blonde had a W on her forehead.

And, yes, I did notice the eerie similarity. Yikes!


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## 2004raptor (Dec 31, 2005)

OK so, Nicholas (isn't that the liars name?) is the one that apparently took the "blender" gun that Rick hid right before they got to Alexadria. Seems odd because he would already have had access to guns, right? I mean, I guess if he found one or saw Rick hide it, he would still take it but seems odd for him to re-hide it buried in the ground.

Edit - And the NIN song seemed very out of place for Deanna to play. Not sure if there was some meaning behind it???


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

SnakeEyes said:


> Really liked today's episode. Much lifted directly from issue #75. Also liked the carl story. Looks like they are building Enid up since Sophia came out of the barn in the show.


I stopped ready after issue 67 (when Aaron appears) and will wait till after next week to continue through the Alexandria story. Sounds like I can at least go through issue 75 at that time.



2004raptor said:


> Edit - And the NIN song seemed very out of place for Deanna to play. Not sure if there was some meaning behind it???


I wondered if that wasn't her son's CD and she was listening to it in his honor. That was a strange scene all in all, though.


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## KyleLC (Feb 6, 2002)

markz said:


> I wondered if that wasn't her son's CD and she was listening to it in his honor.


That's what I thought.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

markz said:


> I wondered if that wasn't her son's CD and she was listening to it in his honor. That was a strange scene all in all, though.


That's what I got from it- the mix CD was the dead son's.
Grating as a memorial piece, though.


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## 2004raptor (Dec 31, 2005)

Cearbhaill said:


> That's what I got from it- the mix CD was the dead son's.
> *Grating as a memorial piece*, though.


That's more what I meant. I mean, I would imagine she might keep it with all of his other personal possessions but I can't imagine her playing it. But I'm sure that was the point.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

I assume they had power (since the CD player was working), but I first wondered when all they had was candles lit in that room...

And Rick went all....well...RICK on them at the end. Funny how it was Michonne with the beatdown...


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

Playing the NIN song seems like a non-issue. I liked it, but I like NIN. They've been around forever and if I remember correctly "Head Like A Hole" (missed opportunity there) has been around since the early 90's and got heavy air play so its not like none of these people would have been at least a little familiar with Rez. I think this was labeled running mix or something like that so who knows if they even knew what was on it but having been to a few memorials (was this actually a memorial or more like reminiscence?) its not uncommon to listen to whatever the deceased liked to listen to. I also wonder if running mix was actually about the act of running as in getting physical activity or making a run in the apocalypse because those would be much different playlists for me.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

It was the son's CD (remember the music in the van - pretty much the only other time we've heard recorded music on the show) - they wanted to listen to it in memoriam, but the aggressive music or memory (or both) was too much for them so they shut it off.

They have power - but it's solar, so they conserve it the best they can and use candles at night for the most part.

Curious about her leaving the casserole on the steps - is she on to Carol?


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

Bierboy said:


> I assume they had power (since the CD player was working), but I first wondered when all they had was candles lit in that room...
> 
> And Rick went all....well...RICK on them at the end. Funny how it was Michonne with the beatdown...


I expected the power to fade but it didn't so I guess this means they got enough parts to fix the grid? And I was like dammmn Michonne! She might be my favorite character since her appearance on the show. Cold cocking Rick is just... well... classic.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

BTW...if you don't want preview spoilers, don't read Yahoo TV's recap of last night's ep. The idiots warn you about episode spoilers (not preview), then they unload a whopper in their recap...


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## wombat94 (Nov 18, 2007)

rahnbo said:


> Playing the NIN song seems like a non-issue. I liked it, but I like NIN. They've been around forever and if I remember correctly "Head Like A Hole" (missed opportunity there) has been around since the early 90's and got heavy air play so its not like none of these people would have been at least a little familiar with Rez. I think this was labeled running mix or something like that so who knows if they even knew what was on it but having been to a few memorials (was this actually a memorial or more like reminiscence?) its not uncommon to listen to whatever the deceased liked to listen to. I also wonder if running mix was actually about the act of running as in getting physical activity or making a run in the apocalypse because those would be much different playlists for me.


"Head Like a Hole" was from the first NIN album.. Pretty Hate Machine which was released in October 1989.

I remember picking that CD up at Tower Records the week after it came out on a whim from one of those Tower "Employee Recommendation" sections... immediately fell in love and it is still one of my favorite albums of all time.

Very cool to hear NIN on Walking Dead.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

wombat94 said:


> "Head Like a Hole" was from the first NIN album.. Pretty Hate Machine which was released in October 1989.
> 
> I remember picking that CD up at Tower Records the week after it came out on a whim from one of those Tower "Employee Recommendation" sections... immediately fell in love and it is still one of my favorite albums of all time.
> 
> Very cool to hear NIN on Walking Dead.


Yes, it was. I'm an old fart, but saw NIN on Austin City Limits last year. That's when I began listening to their stuff. I have a wide variety of musical tastes -- bluegrass (NOT country), jazz, blues, classic rock (60s & 70s), etc., and this style of music just grabbed me...


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

wombat94 said:


> "Head Like a Hole" was from the first NIN album.. Pretty Hate Machine which was released in October 1989.
> 
> I remember picking that CD up at Tower Records the week after it came out on a whim from one of those Tower "Employee Recommendation" sections... immediately fell in love and it is still one of my favorite albums of all time.
> 
> Very cool to hear NIN on Walking Dead.


I can remember driving around Tampa on a rainy night with a few friends kinda bored and trying to figure out if we were going to get some Taco Bell or whatever. Our "Hard Rock" station was playing the same old Frampton and Who songs then Head came on and we're like, "whhaaaat is this??" We went straight to a record store and bought PHM... on tape cause my crappy car didn't have a CD player.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

The only time I ever listened to NIN was when I was playing Quake...


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

JLucPicard said:


> Is it just me, or did that blonde-haired "W" walker tied to the tree seem a lot like what Carol had described she'd do to Sam?


 I hadn't made that (now obvious) connection. Thanks for spelling it out for us ...



rahnbo said:


> ... I also wonder if running mix was actually about the act of running as in getting physical activity or making a run in the apocalypse because those would be much different playlists for me.


For these guys it would be more appropriately labelled as a "Running AWAY Mix".


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

My thoughts on the whole "Walking Dead" thing. 

If you existed in this universe wouldn't you be looking for a base of operations? I think these people got lucky but Rick could have schooled them better. Look at the odds of surviving and how many walkers there would be....billions. Why not warn them about herds? Like the one that took the ranch. Or tell them you can't stay behind the walls all the time you have to train everyday and it will be dangerous. And everyone has to train...EVERYONE.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Was that gun the "blender gun" It was not in the blender. It had a pretty clear letter on it, was that Rick's gun ?

It's very unclear where this is going. Most people, except perhaps Carol, seem to be against Rick's actions and he really was pretty nutty there at the end.


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## ducker (Feb 21, 2006)

I took that as a gun that the wussy guy hid in a can on his own. Not the blender gun.

I also though the scene of the two kids hiding in a tree was insane - like you have got to be kidding. Part of what frustrates me with the show as sometimes the walkers apparently have the ability to smell the living and other times not??? I figured they weren't going to be killed off since it really looked like a complete lapse of anything either of them learned from being survivors.

I too loved the NIN song at the start.


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## 2004raptor (Dec 31, 2005)

Maybe I'm mis remembering but didn't the guy last night dig out a gun with a "J" on it???

Here's a screenshot I found online of Rick hiding the gun










Edit - yeah. According to a recap article "Now we know that slimy Nicholas was the one who stole Rick's hidden gun from the blender (although how he knew it was there remains to be seen - was he following our group before they reached the gates?"

Link to article. NO idea if it spoils anything else.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

JohnB1000 said:


> Was that gun the "blender gun" It was not in the blender. It had a pretty clear letter on it, was that Rick's gun ?
> 
> It's very unclear where this is going. Most people, except perhaps Carol, seem to be against Rick's actions and he really was pretty nutty there at the end.


With all this eps talk about exile it wouldn't surprise me if Carol's master plan was to play Rick in to getting exiled himself as revenge for her own exile. As 2004raptor's screenshot showed that looks like Rick's blender gun to me.


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## 2004raptor (Dec 31, 2005)

On another note, I would have thought Rick would have been able to handle Pete a lot better than he did. I know, it's a tv show. But Pete is a Dr. (no offense to Dr's) and Rick is/was in law enforcement for at least a few years, I guess. plus he's been out there battling walkers and other people for a year or two. He's been in several fist fights though the seasons. 

I don't know, just seems he would have been able to subdue Pete easier.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

He has a history of not handling things very calmly.

He's a good dude, but it usually takes him a concerted effort to come to the right (or diplomatic) way to handle things.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

2004raptor said:


> I don't know, just seems he would have been able to subdue Pete easier.


I think Pete's size and the fact they just crashed through a window would take a slight toll on the old fighting spirit assuming Rick even wanted to subdue him and not just beat the crap out of him or give Rick an excuse to "justify" excessive force. I barely stubbed my toe this morning and probably couldn't have ran if a zombie on fire were chasing me.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

wow....still processing.

Hard to like Rick right now!


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Rick's points are spot on, he just hasn't been able to express them to his non-group at all!


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

Anything, no matter how sane, when shouted through a bloodied face is going to make the shouter sound crazy.

I'm sure that Rick will forgive Michonne for knocking him out, but I don't think he will let them banish Jesse's abuser. They'll likely get a lesson in that soon enough when someone they've already banished comes back to try to take their community.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

classicX said:


> Anything, no matter how sane, when shouted through a bloodied face is going to make the shouter sound crazy.
> 
> I'm sure that Rick will forgive Michonne for knocking him out, but I don't think he will let them banish Jesse's abuser. They'll likely get a lesson in that soon enough when someone they've already banished comes back to try to take their community.


Nor will waving a gun at the shoutees.  I think Rick is at risk for banishment being a season finale and all that.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Rick's message may be right, but his delivery is too aggressive.

In the previews


Spoiler



it look like Deanna will try to vote Rick off the island. Michonne, Glenn, and some of the other Grimes gang have expressed how they need the safety/normalcy of Alexandria so I wonder if any will ignore how correct Rick is for the ignorance of the town.

I also somehow doubt Daryl and Aaron's plot will catch up by the end of the finale. Setting up next seasons plot of them needing someone like Rick to save them from the Wolves gang (if that's what they're called.)


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

comic book spoiler:


Spoiler


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

rahnbo said:


> Nor will waving a gun at the shoutees.  I think Rick is at risk for banishment being a season finale and all that.


The sad part is that without Rick and his group, they will all likely die horrible deaths.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

classicX said:


> The sad part is that without Rick and his group, they will all likely die horrible deaths.


True, but I don't believe for a second this would be a permanent thing just perhaps a cliffhanger which I really hope we don't get stuck with. I'm almost positive Rick is going to pull something off that will prove why he should be THE man. They keep making more and more out of the W or M zombies so if Daryl and his new pal don't figure it out (they appear close) maybe Rick will.


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## TeddS (Sep 21, 2000)

Speculation, based on the plot from Seven Samurai (which still sorta seems like it's a template for what's going on in the show):



Spoiler



I'm wondering if the "Wolves" actually have a secret deal with these "sheep" (Alexandrians) in that they come around every once in a while for supplies, and in return the Wolves don't slaughter them. But these sheep decided that maybe having Rick's team around will help them fight back and put an end to the deal. If so, maybe this will be revealed next week.

Of course, sheep have bad short-term memory and may start to resent the defenders they bring in because they are not sheep-like enough (which is the reason they invited them to begin with).


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

TeddS said:


> Speculation, based on the plot from Seven Samurai (which still sorta seems like it's a template for what's going on in the show):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can't see Rick or his group letting that fly. Carl should hide his pudding though, just in case. Well we've run through a ton of scenarios. I beg the writers that you have such an easy job. Just let Gabrielle fall off of a ladder in to the wide open mouths of a hungry zombie pack.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

classicX said:


> The sad part is that without Rick and his group, they will all likely die horrible deaths.


Maybe the Grimes' tribe is detrimental to survival of groups. Groups may be miserable but they fall apart after meeting Rick :
- the scientist in the CDC was living large (but lonely) before Rick.
- At the farm, Hershel blissful stored Walkers in his barn before Rick. 
- Prisoners were surviving in the prison before Rick
- Woodbury citizens were surviving under a crazy dictator before Rick.
- Claimers were raping and killing before Rick.
- Termites were "eating well" before Rick.
- Noah and others were abused at the hospital before Rick. 
- Bob was just a drunk loner before meeting Rick. 
- Sasha and Tara lost everyone they loved after meeting Rick.

Granted, the cowardly preacher would have been eaten if Rick hadn't appeared (score one for Rick) but we don't know if Abraham's team will regret having met Rick.

Alexandria may have been better off without Rick. Just a thought.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

A bunch of those would have died soon

Prisoners were getting low on food

Sasha and group had already lost a bunch of people when they stumbled into the prison

Yeah Woodbury would be what it was, and I bet the farm would have fallen apart at some point


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## ducker (Feb 21, 2006)

Beryl said:


> Maybe the Grimes' tribe is detrimental to survival of groups. Groups may be miserable but they fall apart after meeting Rick :
> - the scientist in the CDC was living large (but lonely) before Rick.
> - At the farm, Hershel blissful stored Walkers in his barn before Rick.
> - Prisoners were surviving in the prison before Rick
> ...


That being said it was Alexandria's choice to bring in Rick - it wasn't as if Rick found them and pushed his way in.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

2004raptor said:


> On another note, I would have thought Rick would have been able to handle Pete a lot better than he did. I know, it's a tv show. But Pete is a Dr. (no offense to Dr's) and Rick is/was in law enforcement for at least a few years, I guess. plus he's been out there battling walkers and other people for a year or two. He's been in several fist fights though the seasons.
> 
> I don't know, just seems he would have been able to subdue Pete easier.


I was also thinking that Rick should easily have been able to turn Dr. Pete into mincemeat.

I was surprised that we didn't see Maggie telling Rick or Glenn about Gabriel's backstabbing message to what's-her-name Deanna about the group being Satan's minions.

The "W"s are NOT "M"s. That's just ridiculous conjecture. :down:


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

MikeMar said:


> ... and* I bet the farm* would have fallen apart at some point


Don't bet the farm! That never works out well!  Barn-ageddon was it's fate!


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

getreal said:


> ....I was surprised that we didn't see Maggie telling Rick or Glenn about Gabriel's backstabbing message to what's-her-name Deanna about the group being Satan's minions....


I don't think we have to; it's most likely assumed she told them since it was so obvious she overheard him...


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

When Jessie asked Rick if he'd do this for anyone, and then he hesitated for a while and finally said, "No," I was confused. Was he basically saying that he wouldn't do his job as a cop for just anyone, but he would do it for her because he likes her?

I guess I was just expecting him to say Yes, and for her to be more comfortable with the fact that he was doing this for her because it was his job as a cop. So when he said No and then she still said Yes, I was caught off guard.

I loved the scene of Glenn getting in Nicholas' face and telling Nicholas how things were going to be from now on. "Are you threatening me?" "[laughs] No, I'm saving you."

But then Nicholas is immediately outside the walls retrieving the blender gun.

So in this episode we had multiple different parties outside the walls, presumably all of them snuck out rather than getting some kind of official permission to go out the gate. So if people are just able to sneak out (and back in) at will, then the walls aren't going to be much of a deterrent for the Wolves when they finally do show up.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> When Jessie asked Rick if he'd do this for anyone, and then he hesitated for a while and finally said, "No," I was confused. Was he basically saying that he wouldn't do his job as a cop for just anyone, but he would do it for her because he likes her?
> 
> I guess I was just expecting him to say Yes, and for her to be more comfortable with the fact that he was doing this for her because it was his job as a cop. So when he said No and then she still said Yes, I was caught off guard.


I think if he'd said "Yes," the message would have been "I'm a cop, and as you know cops can't really do anything about this kind of thing, but I'll do what I can, which is really not much of anything." But by saying "No," he was saying "I have a crush on you and I'm gonna kill the ^#%[email protected]" Which, in the end, resonated with her, let her see a way out instead of relying on a power structure that valued the doctor's skills more than her safety or even life.

Just an interpretation, but that's how I saw it.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Slapping Rick upside the head was very timely. Because I was about 5 seconds past having done it myself.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

When Rick was talking to Deanna next to the graves, I thought it was odd he told her he would kill the abusive husband as a solution to stopping his abuse instead of letting her offer some possible solutions. 

As a community, Alexandria doesn't seem to have any system of punishing people other than exiling them from the place.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

I don't know how long a community can last if the community allows bad behavior based on how important your skills are.

Would a carpenter already have been ex-communicated, where the doctor hasn't been?

Sounds like that kind of city will implode on itself.

-smak-

ps. On second thought, this is how the world works now, so maybe I'm wrong.


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## Hcour (Dec 24, 2007)

Man, that was a _great_ episode. It was really, really well directed - the music, the mood, the whole atmosphere was so intense. And Rick's final scene was brutal. He's really gone over the edge. I thought this was one of the best eps of the entire series, and I'm really loving this whole storyline.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Rick was really channelling Shane in this episode. And if they exile him, he'll channel The Governor.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I really liked it, but I do feel a bit like they didn't lay enough foundation for Rick going out of control like that. He seemed like the normal Rick (who, let's remember, has stayed calm and together through a LOT worse than Alexandria... remember him at the trough in Terminus?) right up until he's looking at the red balloon in the lake and takes his gun out (why would he do that?)

From that moment he's sort of off kilter, and the episode is well directed and very well acted, but that moment was a little jarring for me; I didn't see any real lead-up to it. I get that he's apparently transferred something onto Jessie, maybe leftover angst from not being able to protect Lori or something. But he's definitely let his inner caveman out and it was not pretty.

Can't believe there's only one (and a half) episode(s) left this season...


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

I don't know what y'all are talking about. Rick has always barely been in control of himself.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

MonsterJoe said:


> I don't know what y'all are talking about. Rick has always barely been in control of himself.


Except, of course, for those times when he's not...


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

smak said:


> I don't know how long a community can last if the community allows bad behavior based on how important your skills are.
> 
> Would a carpenter already have been ex-communicated, where the doctor hasn't been?
> 
> ...


Yeah, being a doctor you could pretty much just do anything except what he is doing (physically abusing people). Anything short of that and hurting people, he could be the biggest jerk in the world and you have to put up with him.

An accountant might lose a lot of value


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Except, of course, for those times when he's not...


Well, ya. 

It was a softball so people wouldn't jump me.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

MonsterJoe said:


> I don't know what y'all are talking about. Rick has always barely been in control of himself.


That's why I previously posted that he went "all Rick" on them. He's been out of control a lot to my memory. He doesn't always manifest it physically, though, as he did here...


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

I like an expression I saw in a different forum.

Rick is spiraling down the Shane Drain.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

MonsterJoe said:


> Curious about her leaving the casserole on the steps - is she on to Carol?


I thought it was simply anger at the death and seeing a casserole as an almost meaningless pile of stuff.
I get that our culture offers food to grieving families, but I for one don't want any (nor will I be hosting a tea party after a funeral).



Bierboy said:


> I don't think we have to; it's most likely assumed she told them since it was so obvious she overheard him...


I think Maggie desperately wants to stay in happy happy Alexandria and would do almost anything to ensure that the status quo continues. I do think she will spill it eventually but I also think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that she has already done so.



smak said:


> I don't know how long a community can last if the community allows bad behavior based on how important your skills are.
> 
> Would a carpenter already have been ex-communicated, where the doctor hasn't been?
> 
> ...


But a doctor is such a valuable and irreplaceable resource.

Personally, I would place him under house arrest in his clinic and guard him with whatever amount of force is necessary to keep him there.
You can't force him to provide proper care but at least try this before removing him entirely, whether by death by Rick _or_ by banishment and death by walker.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I thought the food thing is "you don't have time to cook anything so here's something so you don't have to worry about THAT"...

same with a newborn...


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

Anubys said:


> I thought the food thing is "you don't have time to cook anything so here's something so you don't have to worry about THAT"...
> 
> same with a newborn...


The time or energy or desire...right.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

heySkippy said:


> I like an expression I saw in a different forum.
> 
> Rick is spiraling down the Shane Drain.


Or on Talking Dead when somebody wrote in that Shane shaving his head = Rick shaving his beard!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Cearbhaill said:


> I thought it was simply anger at the death and seeing a casserole as an almost meaningless pile of stuff.


I think she blamed the deaths on the Rickites, and resented their trying to show sympathy (we saw her get the coward's false side of the story, but as far as we know she never heard Glen's version)...

So from her perspective, it was "Sorry we got your son killed, enjoy this nice casserole."


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Cainebj said:


> When Rick was talking to Deanna next to the graves, I thought it was odd he told her he would kill the abusive husband as a solution to stopping his abuse instead of letting her offer some possible solutions.
> 
> As a community, Alexandria doesn't seem to have any system of punishing people other than exiling them from the place.


Yeah...doesn't seem like they have a jail or any type of disciplinary plan.

If they don't have a jail, then I'd say public stockade would be the next best solution. I don't think it's as black and white as death or banishment.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

MonsterJoe said:


> Bierboy said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think we have to; it's most likely assumed she told them since it was so obvious she overheard him...
> ...


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I think she blamed the deaths on the Rickites, and resented their trying to show sympathy (we saw her get the coward's false side of the story, but as far as we know she never heard Glen's version)...
> 
> So from her perspective, it was "Sorry we got your son killed, enjoy this nice casserole."


Or it could have been more than that - if she believes Gabriel, she might be wrestling with the idea that they purposely got her son killed. Wouldn't it make sense? Get rid of anyone that might resist a takeover, when it does happen.

The fact that they didn't kill the coward might give her pause, though. Couple that with the fact that Abraham basically nutted up when everyone else was going to leave that girl to die. We know that Deanna knows about that - so it makes the cowards story not ring true, IMO. But we don't know Deanna's mind at the moment.

As far as everyone else knows, the "runners" are super brave and routinely face mortal danger for the betterment of their community. Based on the confession that they abandoned some other people in the past, I assume this is something that happens regularly but they always spin the story to seem like heroes rather than mice.


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## 2004raptor (Dec 31, 2005)

jradosh said:


> Sasha saw real people running around outside. Dawrly saw someone smoking. I'm not sure that knowledge has been shared yet.


I remember daryl seeing a "light" or something in the distance. Is that what you mean?

I don't recall sasha seeing people running around outside??


----------



## classicX (May 10, 2006)

pmyers said:


> Yeah...doesn't seem like they have a jail or any type of disciplinary plan.
> 
> If they don't have a jail, then I'd say public stockade would be the next best solution. I don't think it's as black and white as death or banishment.


There really isn't any rehabilitation for a wife-beater, in my opinion. Not in this world - you can't just having him go to anger management therapy. The only viable solution that doesn't include his death would be to have her move out of the house with her kids, and keep the doctor away from her except for supervised visits with his children.

If he doesn't agree, then kill him.

Personally, I say kill him - even keeping him away from his wife, he'll just boil over eventually. It's like removing a weed from a garden, but leaving the roots in place, eventually he'll find a way to get to her, or to Rick (who he might perceive as the person taking his wife from him.)


----------



## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Anubys said:


> I thought the food thing is "you don't have time to cook anything so here's something so you don't have to worry about THAT"...
> 
> same with a newborn...


It is.
I'm just saying that for me, I don't want it. 
I want my person back.
If you can't do that then please just go away.
I was thinking that Deanna feels the same way.


----------



## classicX (May 10, 2006)

2004raptor said:


> jradosh said:
> 
> 
> > I remember daryl seeing a "light" or something in the distance. Is that what you mean?
> ...


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

jradosh said:


> MonsterJoe said:
> 
> 
> > ...Sasha saw real people running around outside. Dawrly saw someone smoking. I'm not sure that knowledge has been shared yet.
> ...


----------



## classicX (May 10, 2006)

Cearbhaill said:


> It is.
> I'm just saying that for me, I don't want it.
> I want my person back.
> If you can't do that then please just go away.
> I was thinking that Deanna feels the same way.


I agree - sometimes with loss like that, you can still think rationally enough to know that the person is trying to help, but sometimes you can't even accept kindness, not because you're a cold person, but because you're grieving and on some level are unable to comprehend it at the time.

I wouldn't have read too much into it if she didn't then take the note and burn it, though. In that moment, she might have been blaming Glenn / Tara / Eugene and that was her version of lashing out.


----------



## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

2004raptor said:


> I remember daryl seeing a "light" or something in the distance. Is that what you mean?


Yes. I assumed since it was fading in and out and had a reddish tint that it was a cigarette.



2004raptor said:


> I don't recall sasha seeing people running around outside??


After (or during?) she was shooting all those walkers at the wall of Alexandria, she scanned the distance and they showed what looked like a person or two running very fast.



classicX said:


> I assumed it was a fire or lantern, not someone smoking. They were far enough away that they weren't worried about being heard, so that would have to have been a huge cigarette.


I took it not so much as "they weren't worried about being heard" as they (Durryl) realized they were _already_ spotted. No point whispering when you've already been discovered.


----------



## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

pmyers said:


> Sasha saw real people running over to the Rick fight.....not outside. I was confused at first too.


Hmm... I thought her rifle was pointed out towards the woods. Now I need to revisit that scene.


----------



## classicX (May 10, 2006)

jradosh said:


> I took it not so much as "they weren't worried about being heard" as they (Durryl) realized they were _already_ spotted. No point whispering when you've already been discovered.


I guess we'll see, but I seem to recall Daryl shushing Aaron before pointing out the light, but then he spoke right afterwards in a normal tone. You could be right.


----------



## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

jradosh said:


> Hmm... I thought her rifle was pointed out towards the woods. Now I need to revisit that scene.


Wasn't she picking walkers off at the outside walls while that was going down?


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

jradosh said:


> Yes. I assumed since it was fading in and out and had a reddish tint that it was a cigarette...


Not to keep disagreeing with you  but I was 100% sure it was the glow of a campfire. It was certainly in the distance and I don't think you could see a cigarette glow past 20 feet.

In fact...they showed the smoldering campfire in that scene after.


----------



## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

agreed it was a camp fire.


----------



## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

clearly I need to go back and rewatch this episode


----------



## classicX (May 10, 2006)

pmyers said:


> Not to keep disagreeing with you  but I was 100% sure it was the glow of a campfire. It was certainly in the distance and I don't think you could see a cigarette glow past 20 feet.
> 
> In fact...they showed the smoldering campfire in that scene after.


You can definitely see the glow of a cigarette past 20 feet, considering that on a clear night, in pure darkness, the human eye can detect the light of a single candle from one mile away.

I just figured that even though the light was diffuse, it seemed to be physically larger than a cigarette.


----------



## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

classicX said:


> You can definitely see the glow of a cigarette past 20 feet, considering that on a clear night, in pure darkness, the human eye can detect the light of a single candle from one mile away.
> 
> I just figured that even though the light was diffuse, it seemed to be physically larger than a cigarette.


It looked more pin-point to me than a campfire, and it seemed to be at the right height for a guy standing in the shadows. At least that was my first reaction when seeing it.


----------



## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Hell, I thought it was a lantern shining through a window in a shack in the woods far, far away 

We'll find out soon enough, although if the next scene showed a campfire then I think it a fair bet that it was a campfire. This show is pretty anvilicious that way.


----------



## 2004raptor (Dec 31, 2005)

Hmmmm, maybe it was Morgan.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Great observation to whoever said that what happened to the girl on the tree was exactly what Carrol said she'd do to that boy. Brilliant!


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Cearbhaill said:


> Hell, I thought it was a lantern shining through a window in a shack in the woods far, far away ...


As did I. Or maybe a weenie roast...


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

2004raptor said:


> Hmmmm, maybe it was Morgan.


...smokin' some bud....


----------



## Fahtrim (Apr 12, 2004)

So I don't get the feeling at all here from anyone else, but I thought Rick was right and what he was saying needed to be done. I don't get or approve of why Michonne did or understand why she did it (outside of Deus Ex Machina). 

Maybe I missed something but he was actually doing stuff that would help the town survive and not implode. I found the action of Michonne to be unforgivable and I didn't get that Rick was gonna start mass murder, he didn't even kill the wife beating scum.

I personally found it to be terrible writing to get the group back "in the wild" just to keep the show exciting and moving. As of now I just have a bad taste in my mouth about this show and the whole thing, of course it's just a TV show and we have to take it with a lot of grains of salt, still I found it idiotic.

Seems to be a common theme when shows get too mainstream, add in a whole lot of stupid to keep things exciting/moving. Insert your show that was ruined in this manner if you like, such as Heroes Season 1 finale


----------



## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

Fahtrim said:


> So I don't get the feeling at all here from anyone else, but I thought Rick was right and what he was saying needed to be done. I don't get or approve of why Michonne did or understand why she did it (outside of Deus Ex Machina).
> 
> Maybe I missed something but he was actually doing stuff that would help the town survive and not implode. I found the action of Michonne to be unforgivable and I didn't get that Rick was gonna start mass murder, he didn't even kill the wife beating scum.
> 
> ...


I don't think Rick was incorrect about anything he said but there is a time and place for that discussion and that just wasn't it. As someone pointed out earlier a guy covered in blood waving a gun around yelling at everyone isn't going to be taken seriously but as bit mad.


----------



## Fahtrim (Apr 12, 2004)

rahnbo said:


> I don't think Rick was incorrect about anything he said but there is a time and place for that discussion and that just wasn't it. As someone pointed out earlier a guy covered in blood waving a gun around yelling at everyone isn't going to be taken seriously but as bit mad.


Agreed, this doesn't change that Michonne's act was dumb. He saved her life countless times, proved his leadership, she knows what he's talking about, heck even this episode the writers showed her flashing back and needing to "remember" the need to stay sharp and fight.

Someone convince me that the writing was good there, as of now it's just stupid in my mind.


----------



## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

On the campfire, and I do think it was a campfire, I read an entire book by various snipers in Vietnam as well as victims of VC snipers. One common thread I recall is that the best targets were those smoking cigarettes but that was almost exclusively at night and this didn't seem to be night time. The sniper problem got so bad that GI's either quit smoking or shielded their ciggs with their helmets or other methods.


----------



## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

Fahtrim said:


> Agreed, this doesn't change that Michonne's act was dumb. He saved her life countless times, proved his leadership, she knows what he's talking about, heck even this episode the writers showed her flashing back and needing to "remember" the need to stay sharp and fight.
> 
> Someone convince me that the writing was good there, as of now it's just stupid in my mind.


Maybe she saved him...and the rest of them by extension, from exile, by doing that.


----------



## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

Fahtrim said:


> Agreed, this doesn't change that Michonne's act was dumb. He saved her life countless times, proved his leadership, she knows what he's talking about, heck even this episode the writers showed her flashing back and needing to "remember" the need to stay sharp and fight.
> 
> Someone convince me that the writing was good there, as of now it's just stupid in my mind.


I think she was just trying to do what Carl appeared to try and do which is stop Rick and make him seem less nutso in the moment. I don't think the writing was spectacular for that section but I believe they were so thrilled with how well the fight scene went they might have let it slide. I'll give it a %50 lazy.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

MonsterJoe said:


> Maybe she saved him...and the rest of them by extension, from exile, by doing that.


Agreed. She did save him/them buy knocking him out. The only other way it ends is Rick shooting somebody or them shooting Rick.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I thought it was also interesting that Rick did the same thing to Carl as the husband did with his wife, while they were fighting (hit/smack/shove)...showing Rick was no better than that guy (at least at that moment).


----------



## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

Am I the only one that expected Sasha to shoot a zombie at the end and have the bullet go through the wall and hit someone gathered in the street?


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

zordude said:


> Am I the only one that expected Sasha to shoot a zombie at the end and have the bullet go through the wall and hit someone gathered in the street?


She was using magic bullets that go throw the very soft heads and nothing else. I mean, she can already hit a bull's eye from hundreds of yards without a single miss!


----------



## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

Anubys said:


> She was using magic bullets that go throw the very soft heads and nothing else. I mean, she can already hit a bull's eye from hundreds of yards without a single miss!


She also seems to have an unlimited supply of ammo. If anything they should relieve her of her weapon and give her a slingshot or something. A good sword seems to be available.


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

I am watching the UK show "The Village" They talked about snipers in WW1 and how they watched the areas with the flies, because they new it was the latrine, when the flies went crazy it meant someone was using it and it was usually a good chance for a target.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Fahtrim said:


> Agreed, this doesn't change that Michonne's act was dumb. He saved her life countless times, proved his leadership, she knows what he's talking about, heck even this episode the writers showed her flashing back and needing to "remember" the need to stay sharp and fight.
> 
> Someone convince me that the writing was good there, as of now it's just stupid in my mind.


Michonne was just diffusing the situation so that it could be discussed in a more rational manner at a later time after cooler heads had prevailed. If Rick had been allowed to continue like that, there's no question that Deanna was going to banish him, and that wouldn't be a good thing for Rick's crew, because then they'd be forced to decide between staying in Alexandria without Rick, or abandoning the safety of Alexandria to go with Rick. And we already know from multiple people in this episode that they desperately want to stay in Alexandria.


----------



## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

JohnB1000 said:


> I am watching the UK show "The Village" They talked about snipers in WW1 and how they watched the areas with the flies, because they new it was the latrine, when the flies went crazy it meant someone was using it and it was usually a good chance for a target.


Imagine both. Gosh what a way to go. Sending a fax to Cleveland (reference from last ep) and smoking a cigg. :down:


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> Michonne was just diffusing the situation so that it could be discussed in a more rational manner at a later time after cooler heads had prevailed. If Rick had been allowed to continue like that, there's no question that Deanna was going to banish him, and that wouldn't be a good thing for Rick's crew, because then they'd be forced to decide between staying in Alexandria without Rick, or abandoning the safety of Alexandria to go with Rick. And we already know from multiple people in this episode that they desperately want to stay in Alexandria.


And that still might happen, but at least nobody got shot.

At this point, I'm not sure who would go with Rick if he was banished.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Just a few minutes before, Michonne had been in the woods and had flashbacks to what she used to be like, the constant anger and fear and need to fight. And I think she realized that she much prefers the version of herself that is comfortable leaving the sword hanging above the fireplace. She doesn't want to be unhinged like Sasha. She wants to be civilized, and Rick was on the verge of causing them all to lose their shot at civilization.


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

2004raptor said:


> Hmmmm, maybe it was Morgan.


That was exactly what I told my daughter when I saw the fire in the distance. Morgan.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I think she blamed the deaths on the Rickites, and resented their trying to show sympathy (we saw her get the coward's false side of the story, but as far as we know she never heard Glen's version)...
> 
> So from her perspective, it was "Sorry we got your son killed, enjoy this nice casserole."


Are we supposed to believe that she didn't also take a similar statement from Glenn? I can't imagine that Deanna wouldn't be interested in hearing his version of the story, and I also can't think of any reason why Glenn wouldn't agree to tell her his side of the story.


----------



## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

pmyers said:


> And that still might happen, but at least nobody got shot.
> 
> At this point, I'm not sure who would go with Rick if he was banished.


Hmm, interesting. Would he be forced to leave the baby ? I could see Carl being able to make up his own mind and staying (b/c of the girl).


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> Are we supposed to believe that she didn't also take a similar statement from Glenn? I can't imagine that Deanna wouldn't be interested in hearing his version of the story, and I also can't think of any reason why Glenn wouldn't agree to tell her his side of the story.


Didn't we see Deanna interviewing Glenn on camera also?


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

heySkippy said:


> Didn't we see Deanna interviewing Glenn on camera also?


Not that I can recall. We saw her interviewing Nicholas, and that was intercut with Glenn telling his story to someone offscreen, who later turned out to be Rick.

I would still assume that she interviewed Glenn as well. And Eugene.


----------



## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Add me to the camp that thought Michonne's knocking out Rick was going too far and out of character for her and their relationship.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Cainebj said:


> Add me to the camp that thought Michonne's knocking out Rick was going too far and out of character for her and their relationship.


She could have just stood between him and the crowd and yelled at him to get his attention.

If Deanna is as good at reading people as she says, then she must know that nearly every word out of Nicholas' mouth was a lie.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

john4200 said:


> She could have just stood between him and the crowd and yelled at him to get his attention....


....or whipped out her sword...


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I think she blamed the deaths on the Rickites, and resented their trying to show sympathy (we saw her get the coward's false side of the story, but as far as we know she never heard Glen's version)...


I agree that she surely listened to Glen's version. Also that she has known the liar guy for a long time, and should have already built in suspicion of him. Unfortunately she hasn't known Glen very long.....



pmyers said:


> Yeah...doesn't seem like they have a jail or any type of disciplinary plan.
> 
> If they don't have a jail, then I'd say public stockade would be the next best solution. I don't think it's as black and white as death or banishment.


In a lot of apocalypse stories, they don't have enough food to feed prisoners. This town seems to have enough food, so maybe prison would be doable. Also, since the doctor is drunk every time we see him, how valuable is he really? If they put him in jail and dried him out that would take care of both problems. Unless he's enough of a jerk to refuse to work if he can't be with his family. Then kill him.



pjenkins said:


> Hmm, interesting. Would he be forced to leave the baby ? I could see Carl being able to make up his own mind and staying (b/c of the girl).


I can't imagine them taking his baby from him. Carl could possibly want to stay with Carol and Michonne, but I can't imagine them letting Rick leave with the baby and not going along. And Daryl would go with him no matter what. And, as Rick pointed out, it would be a mistake to let even a few of them go after they know the whole layout of the town and all the weaknesses.


----------



## Vendikarr (Feb 24, 2004)

john4200 said:


> She could have just stood between him and the crowd and yelled at him to get his attention.
> 
> If Deanna is as good at reading people as she says, then she must know that nearly every word out of Nicholas' mouth was a lie.


Yes, but does she want to believe it's a lie. Nicholas paints her son as a hero who was left for dead by the evil new people, while Glenn paints her son as an idiot who panicked. An idiot who confessed to causing the deaths of others due to his cowardice.

It's easier for a mother to believe the lie.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

heySkippy said:


> Didn't we see Deanna interviewing Glenn on camera also?


We saw Glenn telling his story intercut with Nicholas telling his story. And I think we were meant to think that both of them were the filmed versions of their debriefing with Deanna. But then as the scene played out, only the Nicholas version was being filmed, while the Glenn version was him sitting on the porch telling Rick his version of the story.


----------



## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Does anyone else find it curious that Austin Nichols was in this episode but didn't really do anything?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

mwhip said:


> Does anyone else find it curious that Austin Nichols was in this episode but didn't really do anything?


No idea who that is. What part did he play?


----------



## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> No idea who that is. What part did he play?


He was the other son standing behind Deanna in the house. He is a pretty well known character actor who I don't think you have around unless his role gets bigger down the road.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I just got around to watching Talking Dead. I just started watching this at the end of last season--it always seemed like it would be lame--but it's actually pretty good. I was amazed at how articulate and cool Carl was and I love the girl from Odd Couple as a super fan. She's amazing. :up:


----------



## heifer624 (Jul 12, 2009)

pmyers said:


> wow....still processing.
> 
> Hard to like Rick right now!


Funny, I thought the exact opposite. Seems to me He and Carol are the only sane ones!

Pissed me off when Rick got knocked out while the others just looked on.


----------



## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> Michonne was just diffusing the situation so that it could be discussed in a more rational manner at a later time after cooler heads had prevailed. If Rick had been allowed to continue like that, there's no question that Deanna was going to banish him, and that wouldn't be a good thing for Rick's crew, because then they'd be forced to decide between staying in Alexandria without Rick, or abandoning the safety of Alexandria to go with Rick. And we already know from multiple people in this episode that they desperately want to stay in Alexandria.


That is what I think, too.
Rick may be right in spirit, but the longer he carried on the crazier he became.
I look at is as Michonne essentially saved Rick from himself.


----------



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

john4200 said:


> If Deanna is as good at reading people as she says, then she must know that nearly every word out of Nicholas' mouth was a lie.


She made a comment to Nicholas indicating that she may not have bought his story. I forgot got what it was though. 


Cearbhaill said:


> That is what I think, too.
> 
> Rick may be right in spirit, but the longer he carried on the crazier he became.
> 
> I look at is as Michonne essentially saved Rick from himself.


Yep. I don't think words would have done it. She had to shut it down quickly before someone got shot with his waving gun.


----------



## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

Cainebj said:


> Add me to the camp that thought Michonne's knocking out Rick was going too far and out of character for her and their relationship.


Michonne hit Rick to snap him out of his crazy rant and make him see that he is out of control.


----------



## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

sbourgeo said:


> Michonne hit Rick to snap him out of his crazy rant and make him see that he is out of control. The same thing happened in the comic book.


I am not reading the comic book, I am watching the TV show. 
PERSONALLY - I don't want to know what happened in the comic book.

She could have accomplished the same thing by getting between him and the people he was ranting at and sternly yelling "RICK!"

It's not like he is going to shoot Michonne.

Knocking him out is a little harsh.


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

cainebj said:


> personally - i don't want to know what happened in the comic book.


+1


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

sbourgeo said:


> ...The same thing happened in the comic book.


I'm really getting sick and tired of people mentioning the comic book....it has no place in a television show thread...go to some comic book forum and post those comments.


----------



## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

It's no more distracting than any other momentary thread-jack that happens in any other thread on any other day. 

When people stop comparing a movie to the book in every single movie thread that has ever been created, then maybe you'll have a legitimate gripe. It was a simple momentary aside - the comic book comments never derail the thread - only the posts complaining about them.

I can't count how many threads I have stopped following because of the constant spoiler discussions, or conversations that have nothing to do with the show that completely take over the thread.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

stellie93 said:


> I just got around to watching Talking Dead. I just started watching this at the end of last season--it always seemed like it would be lame--but it's actually pretty good. I was amazed at how articulate and cool Carl was and I love the girl from Odd Couple as a super fan. She's amazing. :up:


I think it was the last TD she was on, she had like a whole notepad FILLED from JUST that past episode!


----------



## tlc (May 30, 2002)

Cainebj said:


> She could have accomplished the same thing by getting between him and the people he was ranting at and sternly yelling "RICK!"
> 
> It's not like he is going to shoot Michonne.
> 
> Knocking him out is a little harsh.


I think Rick was too far gone to be jumping in front of his gun. He was raving.


----------



## Boston Fan (Feb 8, 2006)

tlc said:


> I think Rick was too far gone to be jumping in front of his gun. He was raving.


Agreed. The smartest and safest play was to do exactly what Michonne did.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Boston Fan said:


> Agreed. The smartest and safest play was to do exactly what Michonne did.


Only if you believe the TV trope that you can easily hit someone in the head and reliably and safely knock them out. In reality, it is not even close to true.


----------



## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

john4200 said:


> Only if you believe the TV trope that you can easily hit someone in the head and reliably and safely knock them out. In reality, it is not even close to true.


That's not necessarily true - if you hit them right, it is very easy to knock someone out.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

MonsterJoe said:


> It's no more distracting than any other momentary thread-jack that happens in any other thread on any other day.
> 
> When people stop comparing a movie to the book in every single movie thread that has ever been created, then maybe you'll have a legitimate gripe. It was a simple momentary aside - the comic book comments never derail the thread - only the posts complaining about them.
> 
> I can't count how many threads I have stopped following because of the constant spoiler discussions, or conversations that have nothing to do with the show that completely take over the thread.


I'd wager that, in nearly every WD thread, there's been at least one reference to the comic book...


----------



## Boston Fan (Feb 8, 2006)

john4200 said:


> Only if you believe the TV trope that you can easily hit someone in the head and reliably and safely knock them out. In reality, it is not even close to true.


Good point. For some reason I thought we were talking about a TV show. 



MonsterJoe said:


> That's not necessarily true - if you hit them right, it is very easy to knock someone out.


And my money's on Michonne knowing exactly that.


----------



## classicX (May 10, 2006)

MonsterJoe said:


> That's not necessarily true - if you hit them right, it is very easy to knock someone out.


While technically true, I wouldn't expect most people to know how to do so, even in the WD world. Remember, they are mostly fighting walkers (who can't be "knocked out" as far as we know) and people who they want to kill, not simply injure.

Personally, I wouldn't even attempt it on someone I consider a friend, for fear of hitting them with a rabbit punch instead. It would be more reliable to put them in a choke-hold, but as we all know, even that carries the risk of death, and it is not quick. A choke hold would have to be engaged for several seconds to effectively cause someone to lose consciousness.

Plus it wouldn't have looked as cool or shocking.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

MonsterJoe said:


> That's not necessarily true - if you hit them right, it is very easy to knock someone out.


What I wrote is absolutely true. It is not possible to reliably and SAFELY knock someone out by hitting them in the head.

Furthermore, you are wrong that it is "very easy" to knock someone out by hitting them in the head. You have been fooled by a TV trope.


----------



## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

MonsterJoe said:


> That's not necessarily true - if you hit them right, it is very easy to knock someone out.





classicX said:


> While technically true, I wouldn't expect most people to know how to do so, even in the WD world. I probably wouldn't even attempt it on someone I consider a friend, for fear of hitting them with a rabbit punch instead.


I disagree. It seems pretty clear that the one thing Rick's group knows better than anything else is how to fight. While we obviously haven't specifically seen them talk about technique, it feels perfectly believable that in the context of the show Michonne's character would know how to knock someone out. Especially given that Rick never even saw her coming.


----------



## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

john4200 said:


> What I wrote is absolutely true. It is not possible to reliably and SAFELY knock someone out by hitting them in the head.
> 
> Furthermore, you are wrong that it is "very easy" to knock someone out by hitting them in the head. You have been fooled by a TV trope.


Ok - granted, it's never SAFE to go around knocking people out, since being knocked out is a side-effect of brain trauma...I didn't really take that as the operative word of the post.

As far as it being easy and reliable - it is, if you know what you're doing. It's only UNreliable, if you don't...it's still easy.


----------



## classicX (May 10, 2006)

Dawghows said:


> I disagree. It seems pretty clear that the one thing Rick's group knows better than anything else is how to fight. While we obviously haven't specifically seen them talk about technique, it feels perfectly believable that in the context of the show Michonne's character would know how to knock someone out. Especially given that Rick never even saw her coming.


I didn't say the Michonne wouldn't know how, I'm just saying it's not likely something that most people in a zombie world would need to know.

I honestly didn't see the actual strike (I was looking at my tablet), but I know it was from behind, which is especially dangerous. I also assume she hit him with her pistol; if she was able to knock him out with her bare hand, I'd definitely call foul.

To be fair, I never even said it wasn't possible, just especially dangerous. More so when being struck from behind. It's easier from the front.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

We don't even know she was TRYING to knock him out - just that she did.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

MonsterJoe said:


> We don't even know she was TRYING to knock him out - just that she did.


A valid point.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

MonsterJoe said:


> Opost.
> As far as it being easy and reliable - it is, if you know what you're doing. It's only UNreliable, if you don't...it's still easy.


If you could get the person to hold perfectly still and you had a perfectly shaped hammer or cudgel, then perhaps you could call it "easy" to hit a precise spot on a person's head.

But that is rarely the situation, and it was certainly not the case here. And even if you manage to hit a precise spot on a person's head with the perfect force, it is still not reliable that they will be knocked out 100% of the time (I am distinguishing between being stunned for a few seconds and being unconscious for minutes or longer), and it is very far from safe -- it is quite possible to cause permanent brain damage.

Anyone with a lick of sense does not do that to a friend.

Michonne should have just stood right in front of Rick, between him and the crowd, and yelled to get his attention (or slapped his cheek if absolutely necessary to get him to listen). Then she could have talked in a low voice, telling him that he needed to shut up for now and they would talk about it in private.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

Oh well - it seemed to have worked out fine. I guess we'll have to wait until next week to see if he has brain damage.

Meanwhile, we all seem to have fallen for that pesky TV trope about reanimated corpses.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

john4200 said:


> If you could get the person to hold perfectly still and you had a perfectly shaped hammer or cudgel, then perhaps you could call it "easy" to hit a precise spot on a person's head.
> 
> But that is rarely the situation, and it was certainly not the case here. And even if you manage to hit a precise spot on a person's head with the perfect force, it is still not reliable that they will be knocked out 100% of the time (I am distinguishing between being stunned for a few seconds and being unconscious for minutes or longer), and it is very far from safe -- it is quite possible to cause permanent brain damage.
> 
> ...


Agreed, it was foolish of her to do that. Rick may not be very forgiving at first.

Coming from someone who actually knows how to "reliably" strike someone out cold in multiple ways, I'd still say that I wouldn't consider it easy, ever. The risk of death or permanent injury is simply too great. I'd put it at around 70%. Rick is so lucky.


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## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

zordude said:


> Am I the only one that expected Sasha to shoot a zombie at the end and have the bullet go through the wall and hit someone gathered in the street?


I was expecting her to miss her intended target, hit the wall (or wall supports), and somehow degrade the integrity of the wall.


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

MonsterJoe said:


> Meanwhile, we all seem to have fallen for that pesky TV trope about reanimated corpses.


Exactly this.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

I think Michonne did the right thing. She's the second smartest person in the group (first being Carol, third being Glen, not counting the book smarts of Eugene.) She has a pretty good grasp on how to handle people.


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## Boston Fan (Feb 8, 2006)

MonsterJoe said:


> Meanwhile, we all seem to have fallen for that pesky TV trope about reanimated corpses.




BTW, my earlier reference "safe" was specific to Michonne (and probably the other bystanders), not Rick. Much better for her own safety to do what she did than stand in front of the crazy, bloody man waving a gun as some had suggested as the preferred alternative.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Boston Fan said:


> Much better for her own safety to do what she did than stand in front of the crazy, bloody man waving a gun as some had suggested as the preferred alternative.


Only "much better" if you look at it myopically.

The chances that Rick would hurt her if she is just standing in front of him are small. Yes, he was acting crazy, but he was not so far gone that he would shoot Michonne for no reason.

On the other hand, the chance that he would hurt her if she hit him, either immediately (if she failed to knock him unconscious), or later because he was angry for her betrayal, are higher than the chances that he would hurt her if she just stood in front of him. Add that bad outcome to the possibility that Michonne could have caused permanent brain damage, and it makes her action look quite stupid.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

I think she did the right thing and the only thing.
The situation was going downhill fast and the risk of Rick shooting someone, someone shooting Rick, Rick doing something that guaranteed his being banished etc. all needed to be mitigated asap. IMO he was past being reasoned with.
Even if he is pissed at Michonne that beats all the other alternatives hands down.

He wasn't in danger of brain damaged. 
This is TV- it was a dramatic resolution for effect.
No more, no less.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

trope gobbler!


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Cearbhaill said:


> ....He wasn't in danger of brain damaged.
> This is TV- it was a dramatic resolution for effect.
> No more, no less.


amen!


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

Wouldn't it be interesting if he DOES have some sort of brain damage after this?

Maybe something mild, like a nervous tick or something. Although Andrew Lincoln might not like doing the accent and maintaining a nervous tick at the same time.

So it's unlikely.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

I think I would have passed out from laughter if someone ran up to Rick after that and did this:

[Warning - NSFW due to language]


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## Fahtrim (Apr 12, 2004)

Cearbhaill said:


> I think she did the right thing and the only thing.
> The situation was going downhill fast and the risk of Rick shooting someone, someone shooting Rick, Rick doing something that guaranteed his being banished etc. all needed to be mitigated asap. IMO he was past being reasoned with.
> Even if he is pissed at Michonne that beats all the other alternatives hands down.
> 
> ...


Agree to disagree. Best alternative imo, stand behind Rick as a group together. Let the "others" walk away beaten and accepting the truth of Rick's "ranting". The gang takes over leadership "or" the "others" later cause the drama and the downfall of the town. I'm sold it was stupid writing for dramatic impact.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Cearbhaill said:


> He wasn't in danger of brain damage*d*.


Apparently _I_ have brain damage to have written that.
Seeing this typo in quotes is extremely distressing to me.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

classicX said:


> Wouldn't it be interesting if he DOES have some sort of brain damage after this?
> 
> Maybe something mild, like a nervous tick or something. Although Andrew Lincoln might not like doing the accent and maintaining a nervous tick at the same time.
> 
> So it's unlikely.


How about he wakes up and speaks with his British accent...



> British footballer woke from coma after car accident speaking French and thinking he was Matthew McConaughey
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-actor-Matthew-McConaughey.html#ixzz3VRrcMdiY
> Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

TeddS said:


> Speculation, based on the plot from Seven Samurai (which still sorta seems like it's a template for what's going on in the show):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you sure that's not the plot from A Bug's Life?


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