# Transfer sub



## Mostin (Mar 26, 2005)

Hi all, I've just bought another Tivo with a lifetime subscription and was wondering how you transfer it.

Do I call c/s and swop postcodes or shall i just plug it in and go for it as its from the same town

Thanks


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

No need to call CS at all, and even probably best not to!

The lifetime sub is with the machine, not the person.

Even if you change postcodes, just run guided setup as needed.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

As long as it's a "proper" lifetime sub (status 5) then if the person you bought it from (assuming they're the registered owner) is happy to do so they should call TiVo CS to tell them they've sold it to you. You should then call to tell them you've bought it. 

TiVo CS will then cancel their account (not the sub) and create a new account for you, attached to the sub. That way you become the registered owner and can get support (including the 2.5.5a fix) etc. if you should need it and possibly persuade TiVo CS to let you transfer the sub to another physical box if this one should go up in smoke.


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## Mostin (Mar 26, 2005)

Thanks for your help, can't wait to plug it in and get going :up:


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

But there were also free Lifetime Subs for journalists etc that can't be legally transferred and Tivo will cancel the sub if someone asks them to transfer it.

What do you have under System Information? If you have 5 Lifetime then you should definitely be ok to get it transferred if the legal owner will also tell Tivo he has sold it. But if you were told it was Lifetime and System Information shows status 4 or 11 then I wouldn't risk trying to get the sub transferred to your name.

Tivo never send mail in the post or any other proactive communication to UK customers so there is really no need to re-register the Tivo.

If you have one of these dodgy Lifetime subs (not showing 5 in System Information) the best thing would be to have the phone number, name and address of the former owner and then dial 141 to withhold your own number when you call Tivo (Sky) customer services so that you can then manually given them the old owner's name and postcode to get any support you need.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Tivo never send mail in the post or any other proactive communication to UK customers so there is really no need to re-register the Tivo.


If you don't register it then:-

1. You won't get any telephone support
2. You won't be able to request the upgrade to 2.5.5a if you need it
3. If the box dies then you will have *no chance* of persuading TiVo CS to let you transfer the lifetime sub to a spare machine
4. You won't qualify for any upgrade offers when a new machine is introduced to the UK...


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## chrisd (Oct 24, 2003)

blindlemon said:


> If you don't register it then:-
> 
> 4. You won't qualify for any upgrade offers when a new machine is introduced to the UK...


Lol.  That's gonna happen any day now.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> If you don't register it then:-
> 
> 1. You won't get any telephone support
> 2. You won't be able to request the upgrade to 2.5.5a if you need it
> ...


And if you do try to register with Tivo and you have bought a hookey box on Ebay that is a press demonstrator sub that cannot be transferred or you have bought an unsubbed box that has had a Lifetime Sub put on it via illegal lifetime sub Tivo Servce Number cloning then Tivo will deactivate that Service Number and you will no longer have a Lifetime Sub any more.

So before you call Tivo be very sure indeed that you have a paid for Lifetime Sub that can be transferred.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

chrisd said:


> Lol.  That's gonna happen any day now.


I'm an optimist


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## Mostin (Mar 26, 2005)

blindlemon said:


> If you don't register it then:-
> 
> 4. You won't qualify for any upgrade offers when a new machine is introduced to the UK...


Have i missed something?? Is there a new tivo coming or just wishful thinking


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Mostin said:


> Have i missed something?? Is there a new tivo coming or just wishful thinking


blindlemon is simply the eternal optimist or should I say evangelist   .

But knowing marketing people as I do even if Tivo did a deal with Virgin Media I very much doubt that any of us existing UK Tivo customers would even get a mailing about it.  :down:


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

Pete77 said:


> But knowing marketing people as I do even if Tivo did a deal with Virgin Media I very much doubt that any of us existing UK Tivo customers would even get a mailing about it.


While you're probably right, targetting existing TiVo users would probably get a far higher return than targetting any other section of the population.


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## Mike B (Sep 16, 2003)

Mostin said:


> Have i missed something?? Is there a new tivo coming or just wishful thinking


AFAIK, it's just wishful thinking I'm afraid.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

iankb said:


> While you're probably right, targetting existing TiVo users would probably get a far higher return than targetting any other section of the population.


I doubt it would even be a pay option as such with VM.

More of an upgrade to V+, so they can call it V+ Tivo and list how its better than sky+

Whether that will ever happen though it another issue - VM seem to be cutting back on spend, not increasing it (loss of channels, price increases, speed throttling)


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

The "loss of channels" thing wasn't entirely VM's fault though. They'd still have them if Sky had asked a reasonable price. Allegledly 

Prices increase all the time. 

I believe that that thinking is that Traffic Management is the most cost-effective use of resources. ie they could have thrown money at it but the effect would have been less than STM. Or something


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## ...coolstream (Dec 10, 2005)

I am still surprised that in this age of increased bandwidth, anyone who downloads the eqivalent of 75% of a DVD during peak time is classed by the Virgin boffins as being in the top 5%

http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/internet/traffic.html



> And we're not talking about just a few video clips. In some cases the top 5% of users were downloading as much as 3GB, just during peak times. That's around 750 music tracks in the space of a few hours.


...and I don't know how they managed to calculate 'the space of a few hours' bit, because even on the 10 Meg speed, a whole DVD could be downloaded from the Virgin usenet server in about an hour.

What on earth do the other 95% do with their bandwidth?


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

_Not_ download (mostly) illegal stuff? 

Yes, I _know_ you can download music, and movies too I think, legally but who would want to download _that_ much music - 750 tracks was it - or its equivalent _every night_?

I think the point is that this top 5% _are_ maxing-out their connection 24/7 to the detriment of the other people on their UBR; hence the traffic management to try and alleviate this.

BTW I'm only para-phrasing from memory what I have read in the internal newsgroups so I might have got the details slightly wrong.

To be honest I don't pay much attention as it will hardle ever affect me


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Downloading just 350Mb in peak time is enough to trigger it on the 2MB service....
then you'll be at 1MB for the rest of the evening...


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

I'm with Carl here - I'm not sure how many Linux distros you can need an evening. 
The most obvious reason for wanting that much bandwidth is to get full length TV and movies - we've debated the legality/morality of that over and over so I won't labour the point.
Such a cap wouldn't bother me and if it does bother you you can always vote with your feet and get an ADSL line installed with a more friendly ISP.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

mikerr said:


> Downloading just 350Mb in peak time is enough to trigger it on the 2MB service....
> then you'll be at 1MB for the rest of the evening...


There _is_ a case to be made for raising the limits and VM have said that they will "monitor the situation" and may do just that, but not yet.



AMc said:


> ... you can always vote with your feet and get an ADSL line installed with a more friendly ISP.


Indeed. But doing that still won't _guarantee_ that you will be allowed to max-out your connection 24/7. All ISPs these days have a FUP and while it may be true that no-one has necessarily yet been warned for how much they're downloading it is still technically possible.

At least with VM you _know_ what that limit is


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Indeed. But doing that still won't _guarantee_ that you will be allowed to max-out your connection 24/7. All ISPs these days have a FUP and while it may be true that no-one has necessarily yet been warned for how much they're downloading it is still technically possible.)


Pretty hard to exceed the 30Gb Peak and 300Gb Offpeak allowed by Entanet resellers like www.ukfsn.org or www.adsl24.co.uk and all for only £20 per month


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

With PlusNet you know what the limit is, and they give you a control panel to monitor it. It's a LOT less draconian than Virgin's from the sound of it.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> With PlusNet you know what the limit is, and they give you a control panel to monitor it. It's a LOT less draconian than Virgin's from the sound of it.


With www.newnet.co.uk you always get full speed all the time up to your bundled inclusive monthly allowance and if you need to go over that you can but just pay extra per Gb.

Newnet has a hugely flexible range of tariffs to suit all types of users from light users at £9.99 per month with 1Gb of data, through to those needing up to 60Gb per month.

Entanet offers more download capacity still but their thoughput speeds slow down a little at very peak hours, although are still electric compared to the TalkTalks and Virgins of this world.

Stuart for a man who must always have the very latest gadgetry I'm surprised you stick with an ISP notorious for unexpectedly throttling download speeds. You don't seem to be as demanding about your ISP as other matters in your life.

I would have thought that www.newnet.co.uk or www.idnet.co.uk were the place for a demanding, money is no object customer like you who simply wants the very best service available.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Of course, the other problem with ADSL is the speed, or lack thereof. My dad's with Newnet and although paying for "up to 8mb" usually gets less than 4, and he's within a couple of hundred meters of the (non-LLU'd) exchange.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> With www.newnet.co.uk you always get full speed all the time up to your bundled inclusive monthly allowance and if you need to go over that you can but just pay extra per Gb.
> 
> Newnet has a hugely flexible range of tariffs to suit all types of users from light users at £9.99 per month with 1Gb of data, through to those needing up to 60Gb per month.
> 
> ...


Everyone please note I'm not rising to that obvious bating - you'll have to do better than that Pete.

I looked at NewNet and for my usage pattern it is WAY more expensive; to match my usage in April, which cost me £18.49 on PlusNet would have cost £32.95 on NewNet.

I'm perfectly happy with the way PlusNet does its traffic shaping; with my usage pattern I'd rather have shaping in operation keeping speeds for normal web traffic optimised at peak periods. If NewNet's claims are true - that it puts no controls on place at all - then regular old fashioned contention will do the controlling, and someone else's P2P traffic will squeeze your web and e-mail.

PlusNet goes to extraordinary lengths to explain its (admittedly very complex) shaping and speed limits system, but once you understand it you can get a lot of bandwidth for not much money.


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## ndunlavey (Jun 4, 2002)

...coolstream said:


> ...and I don't know how they managed to calculate 'the space of a few hours' bit, because even on the 10 Meg speed, a whole DVD could be downloaded from the Virgin usenet server in about an hour.


What average contention are you assuming there?


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## ndunlavey (Jun 4, 2002)

TCM2007 said:


> PlusNet goes to extraordinary lengths to explain its (admittedly very complex) shaping and speed limits system, but once you understand it you can get a lot of bandwidth for not much money.


Sounds interesting, Stuart. Have you had much call to test their customer service yet? Our corporate stuff is currently with Merula, who seem a reasonable balance of price an service, but when we take on another employee I'd be lookign at a cheaper supplier for them than the £28pcm we currently pay.


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## ndunlavey (Jun 4, 2002)

cwaring said:


> Of course, the other problem with ADSL is the speed


AFAIC, the problem with ADSL is the lack of SLA, which is what brings it down to affordable prices


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> If NewNet's claims are true - that it puts no controls on place at all - then regular old fashioned contention will do the controlling, and someone else's P2P traffic will squeeze your web and e-mail.


NewNet have more bandwidth capacity than they need in all but their very maxumum expected use level periods, therefore they always offer near full speed.

When I was with NewNet my best speed at www.speedtest.net at say 2am would be 6100kbps but even at say 7.45pm I would get 5300kbps to 5400kbps. They avoided any problems with the over heavy users by changing their pricing structure upward on their higher use tariffs 3 months or so ago. They also doubled the cost of excess use from 70p per Gb to £1.40 per Gb. So they do offer full speed basically all the time as do IDNet and Zen.

Entanet's model is to give you an allowance that is hard to over-run (i.e. 300Gb off peak and 30Gb Peak) but as its only £20 per month that means at the start of the Off Peak period at 10pm speed test results do show some contention with speeds falling as low as 2000kbps. But 2000kbps is the most a TalkTalk customer can ever dream of at 4am and at 7.45pm a TalkTalk customer may be getting 200kbps if he is lucky...............

However in business hours and overnight after 1am Entanet resellers seem to offer maximum throughput all the time.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ndunlavey said:


> AFAIC, the problem with ADSL is the lack of SLA, which is what brings it down to affordable prices


The problem is Ofcom which has failed to make selling the kind of shocking so called broadband service provided by cynics like TalkTalk a serious offence punishable with large fines.

Why does BA get fined £500 million for something that everyone was aware of, while TalkTalk gets away with selling an ADSL narrowband service as broadband??


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Yes, my upgrade to ADSL Max didn't go very smoothly (BT deciding my line was slower with Max than it was on its fixed speed!) and they were able to override BT's dettings and get me back on track very quickly. They operate a ticket based system which has alaways worked well for me.

The only major downside is that they operate unlimited e-mails under your own subdomain, which while flexible does open you up to being used as the spoof reply address from spam as all possible addresses in your subdomain are valid. There have been quite a few problems on their e-mail systems over the past year, which have been OkKfor a while, but I only use it for "disposable" e-mails not critical stuff anyway.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> NewNet have more bandwidth capacity than they need in all but their very maxumum expected use level periods, therefore they always offer near full speed..


Fair enough, but that would explain why they are nearly twice the price!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Of course, the other problem with ADSL is the speed, or lack thereof. My dad's with Newnet and although paying for "up to 8mb" usually gets less than 4, and he's within a couple of hundred meters of the (non-LLU'd) exchange.


He must have crappy extension wiring in his house then or some crappy aluminium overhead BT cabling somewhere? I'm three quarters of a mile from the exchange and sync between 7520 mainly and 8128 exceptionally (warm dry summer days).

I suggest he gets a filtered master socket from www.adslnation.co.uk which often helps quite a bit. NewNet will not be the source of his slow speeds as his problem is clearly a poor Sync speed with the exchange.

What sync speed does the BT Speedchecker suggest he ought to be getting on his line?

Don't forget that even if you connect at 8128kbps the maximum data througput you can get with even an uncontended ISP like NewNet is around 7000kbps.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> Fair enough, but that would explain why they are nearly twice the price!


You only get what you pay for as you have so often been keen to point out.  

Having said that I think Zen's pricing is a ripoff that seems to rely on attracting those who think buying the most expensive service out there is good for them. 

As to your mail problems with Plusnet allowing mail for all and sundry before the @ sign you should check out the email settings area in your account as you can now tell their mail system to only deliver mail to mailboxes before the @sign that you define and bin everything else. They have also just bought in free Spam filtering for legacy email customers like me that seems to cut out about 90% of the spam mails without classifying genuine emails as Spam.

BT seem to be investing quite heavily now to remedy the large amount of Cheesepairing that took place under former MD Lee Strafford to get the highest sale price out of a buyer. So far as I can see Plusnet is now BT's budget broadband product for those who don't just blythely assume that BT is always best without also worrying about the price of the service.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> My dad's with Newnet and although paying for "up to 8mb" usually gets less than 4, and he's within a couple of hundred meters of the (non-LLU'd) exchange.


Tell him to dial 17070 on his line and then select Option 2 for the Quiet Line Test.

If he hears any noise report it as a fault. A noisy line will slow down your broadband and is BT's fault and not NewNet's

BT legally have to provide you a Quiet Line for voice and fax communication purposes.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> You only get what you pay for as you have so often been keen to point out.   .


Indeed, but out here in the wilds my sync speed is 2k, so paying for a superfast broadband provider would be of little use to me.

Like most folks, I only use the connection for web and e-mail during peak hours, and that's not really speed limited.

My dowloading is all done in the small hours.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Thanks for the tips, Pete. I'll do the tests myself when I'm there next.

I will say that they _have_ had a problem with the line (voice calls seem to be rather quiet) since a bad thunder storm a few years ago but BT have insisted that they can't find anything wrong.

The other point is that he does use one of these "free" USB modems. I've heard that a router would help. Is that true?


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

USB modems are the devil's work, but mainly for security reasons. In many cases the same hardware is USB or ethernet.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> The other point is that he does use one of these "free" USB modems. I've heard that a router would help. Is that true?


More helpful and intelligent tech support people at ISPs I have been with have told me that they have found that customers who change the make and/or model of broadband router on the same line with no other changes can often see dramatic differences in sync speed as a result. The problem of course is to be able to acquire a range of different routers to test out that theory with. You would think one of the computer magazines would have run a group test along these lines. But then again perhaps the people making crappy routers would never advertise with them again if they did that.  

Fitting one of these little fellows to the master socker can often help when dodgy extension wiring or a poor line are impeding the broadband signal. Only thing to watch out for is that the standard plastic tool for fitting the wires doesn't work that well if there are multiple extension terminals coming in at the master socket but the decent professional tool costs a tenner.

Here is the master socket filter:-

www.adslnation.com/products/xte2005.php

Take the two screws out of your Dad's master socket faceplate and see how many wires there appear to be going in to each of the terminals on the back of it. If its a lot then you need the professional tool rather than the plastic one.

By the way it might also be worth TCM trying one of these if he isn't getting the Sync rate that BT are forecasting for his phone number on their website.


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## ...coolstream (Dec 10, 2005)

ndunlavey said:


> What average contention are you assuming there?


I'm unsure what you mean so can't answer that question.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> By the way it might also be worth TCM trying one of these if he isn't getting the Sync rate that BT are forecasting for his phone number on their website.


Tanks, but I am getting the predicted sync speed.


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## Nebulous (Nov 28, 2005)

Pete77 said:


> Here is the master socket filter:-
> www.adslnation.com/products/xte2005.php


I wish I'd known about that product when I first got broadband  . I originally fitted a filter at each extension, as recommended by BT. Each extension has its own cable back to the master socket.

I had loads of problems with poor quality broadband and BT where adamant that it was nothing to do with them.  Anyway in desperation I removed all the filters and hacked the master socket and fitted a single filter and fed the filtered voice side back into the master socket and connected my router to the adsl side (which fortunately is close by).

It works perfectly now and there is a marked improvement in the voice quality too.  :up:

I can only assume it was something to do with the extensions being star pointed from a single node and the filters reflecting the signals back 

Anyway, I'm off to get one of them gizmos now, cheers Pete :up:


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## ndunlavey (Jun 4, 2002)

...coolstream said:


> I'm unsure what you mean so can't answer that question.


Over any significant period of time, the contention ratio on an ADSL line effectively reduces the badwidth by that amount. So, while a domestic 2Mbps ADSL connection will give bursts at that rate, it is likely to be contended at 50:1, meaning that over any sizeable time the average bandwidth will only be 40kbps. You won't notice if you are downloading things that tie up the line for a only a few minutes at a time, but you can't assume you'll get an uncontended headline rate for an hour or more.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

That's not my understanding. 50:1 contention means you share that bit of infrastructure with 49 others. If no-one else is using any bandwidth you'll get full speed; if everyon is in full P2P mode, you'll only get 1/50th of the maximum that part of the infrastructure can provide.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ndunlavey said:


> Over any significant period of time, the contention ratio on an ADSL line effectively reduces the badwidth by that amount. So, while a domestic 2Mbps ADSL connection will give bursts at that rate, it is likely to be contended at 50:1, meaning that over any sizeable time the average bandwidth will only be 40kbps. You won't notice if you are downloading things that tie up the line for a only a few minutes at a time, but you can't assume you'll get an uncontended headline rate for an hour or more.


Contention is the maximum slowness an ISP can inflict on you beacuse they don't have enough bandwidth on their backbone to provide full speed all the time to all their customers.

In reality TalkTalk don't have enough bandwidth at all times and at very peak times their so called broadband speeds have been known to be as slows as the 40k you mention. On the other side of the coin are IDNet, Zen and NewNet who have adequate bandwidth to provide all their customers about 90% of maximum possible ADSL download speed all the time and 100% of the speed at most off peak times.

Anyhow the old concepts of contention and the 50:1 and 20:1 ratios no longer exist under ADSL Max. Instead Business grade ADSLMax customers get a faster upload speed and higher priority when the network is contended but not on the old 50:1 and 20:1 basis.


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## ndunlavey (Jun 4, 2002)

TCM2007 said:


> That's not my understanding. 50:1 contention means you share that bit of infrastructure with 49 others. If no-one else is using any bandwidth you'll get full speed; if everyon is in full P2P mode, you'll only get 1/50th of the maximum that part of the infrastructure can provide.


Hmmm ... I'm not sure what bit you are disagreeing with - I pretty much agree with what you said, and thought that was what I had said.
(Except that rather than it being you and 50 others sharing a 2Mbps pipe, it's more likely to be you 3,874 others sharing a 155Mbps pipe, or similar, which helps to even the bumps out)


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ndunlavey said:


> (Except that rather than it being you and 50 others sharing a 2Mbps pipe, it's more likely to be you 3,874 others sharing a 155Mbps pipe, or similar, which helps to even the bumps out)


Correct.

The people you are contended with are not other people on your phone exchange in the main (although that can happen on phone exchanges with a lot of ADSL traffic) but other people at your ISP.

There is no standard contention figure. Its entirely down to the service policy of your ISP. The TalkTalks and Tiscalis of this world cram 16 time more people on a pipe than they should and NewNet, IDNet and Zen don't.

As Ofcom seems to be a trade association masquerading as a regulator they seem quite prepared to let this sad and sorry state of affairs continue without there being any means of adequate consumer redress (such as being able to end your contract early without any lock in penalties applying).


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

ndunlavey said:


> Hmmm ... I'm not sure what bit you are disagreeing with - I pretty much agree with what you said, and thought that was what I had said.
> (Except that rather than it being you and 50 others sharing a 2Mbps pipe, it's more likely to be you 3,874 others sharing a 155Mbps pipe, or similar, which helps to even the bumps out)


You said that the long term average is 1/50th speed - my understanding is that is the _minimum _speed not the _average _speed, though reading your post again I guess you are including idle time in that average.

There are two sets of contentions, BT's at the exchange and your ISP's further up the line. BT's is usually 50:1; the ISP contention they often keep quiet about. On PlusNet its either 50 or 30:1 depending on your account package.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> As Ofcom seems to be a trade association masquerading as a regulator they seem quite prepared to let this sad and sorry state of affairs continue without there being any means of adequate consumer redress (such as being able to end your contract early without any lock in penalties applying).


What sorry state of affairs? If you sign up for Talk Talk or Tiscali without doing the research on things like contention and speed and just going for the "free" offer, that's your problem. It's not the state's job to protect us form poor buying decisions.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> It's not the state's job to protect us form poor buying decisions.


It is however the state's job to protect us from Misleading Advertising so that we can make Informed Buying Decisions.


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## ...coolstream (Dec 10, 2005)

ndunlavey said:


> Over any significant period of time, the contention ratio on an ADSL line effectively reduces the badwidth by that amount. So, while a domestic 2Mbps ADSL connection will give bursts at that rate, it is likely to be contended at 50:1, meaning that over any sizeable time the average bandwidth will only be 40kbps. You won't notice if you are downloading things that tie up the line for a only a few minutes at a time, but you can't assume you'll get an uncontended headline rate for an hour or more.


Thanks for the explanation!

I guess I must be very lucky because if I download exclusively from usenet using the Virgin servers, I get a constant 1.2Mbs download. Needless to say, I don't do it constantly, but I can be almost 100% confident that a DVD's worth of data could be downloaded in about an hour.

By default, I would download from the Virgin server with 4 open connections and achieve around 70MB per minute using the 10 Meg service. D U Meter's graph shows a solid connection with minimal troughs (only when a new article is requested).

At the moment, this area has not been upgraded to the 20 Meg service but past experience of upgrades in service bandwidth would have led me to expect a similar download to take half the time.

I hope this answers your question.


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