# HR20 or HR21 on a 3LNB Satellite? Has anyone installed their own 5LNB dish?



## sloan (Feb 13, 2003)

I searched and found some old posts. They were more of a "Can I get my HR2x receiver to activate before the 5LNB'er dish is installed?"
..
Here is the deal. For the last few years, I've taken my HR10-250 with me on vacation. I have a 3LNB dish installed (the vacation spot is top of a mountain, a glorified shack basically).

It gave me ESPN-HD (73) , you know -- the "70's" mpeg2 channels, and even some OTA locals like Fox (HD NFL!). So I wouldn't miss "the big game" while on vacation.

Well, I did the HR20 upgrade a few months back. I don't love it, but I don't hate it either.
Obviously I have a 5LNB dish at my house.

If I take my HR20 with me on vacation, and hook it up to a 3LNB dish, what channels should I expect to get (and not get)?

I've googled my butt off trying to find a "This Sat Provides These Channels", and I find alot of outdated information.

Links or Hints greatly appreciated.

I know I won't get the "new wave" of HD channels.

Will I get the "70's" channel numbers?

Thanks for your help.

...........................................

PS
Has anyone installed a 5LNB'er themselves?
I remember that the 3LNB'er wasn't impossible, but it took some tweaking/nudging and alot of "Left/Right/RIGHT THERE's" to get all 3 sats lined up. And I was very anal about the level bubble on the mounting arm.
If the difficultly level of installing a 5LNB'er (from a 3LNB'er) is on the same scale as a 3LNB'er (From a round dish 1LNB'er), then I really can't imagine it.

I did have access to a sat pointing device. I remember it had the WORST battery life ever. 14 hour charge, and it lasted about 4 minutes.

........................


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## videojanitor (Dec 21, 2001)

You should be able to get the same channels that you received with the HR10. The 70s channels are still MPEG-2 and don't come from the new satellites that require the 5-LNB dish.

I have installed two 5-LNB dishes -- both the original, and Slimline -- and found it to be rather easy. I mounted both of them on poles that are only two feet off the ground, so that makes them very accessible for tweaking. Within 10 minutes of putting these things up though, I was watching TV. A little more adjusting and I had signals in the 80s-90s on all satellites. I locked everything down and have never had a problem. Yes, there are more adjustments than the 3-LNB dish, but it's not really difficult.


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## Cabinwood (Mar 11, 2000)

We installed our own 5lnb dish after a couple installers said they wouldn't do it do to trees. It really wasn't that bad, we may have just gotten lucky, but it didn't even need much tweaking.


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## rlj5242 (Dec 20, 2000)

I had to realign a 5 LNB dish. It took about 5 minutes. After talking to the guy that "installed" mine, I think that anyone with opposable thumbs and can follow 3rd grade level instructions can install a dish.

And check out Lyngsat for channels available on each satellite.

-Robert


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## bpratt (Nov 20, 2004)

I installed my 5 LNB dish, but I purchased this tool to assist me:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?main_cat=02&CAT=&PROD=SACUTRACPRO


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

rlj5242 said:


> I had to realign a 5 LNB dish. It took about 5 minutes. After talking to the guy that "installed" mine, I think that anyone with opposable thumbs and can follow 3rd grade level instructions can install a dish...


Well, that rules out most installers .

Seriously, I think anyone can change their own oil, too. But some are intimidated by it or don't want to get their hands dirty. The critical difference here is that you can always find a competent oil change, while finding an installer to competently align a Slimline could be problematic, so it might pay to take things into your own hands.

I had two visits each by two installers, who just couldn't seem to pull the trigger. I eventually downloaded the Slimline manual and did it myself, but then I had a bit of experience with commercial dishes so I had a head start conceptually. But yes, opposable thumbs and vital signs are important, but it might not be for everybody. Still, if you find yourself painted into a corner by installer imcompetence, nearly anybody who is motivated and willing to apply themselves can do the job. I got numbers 15 points higher than the Phase III I was replacing, and on the last visit the installer could not improve upon those numbers, so it is indeed possible.


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## codespy (Jan 7, 2006)

I do the Slimline the old fashioned way-

Grab extension cord, take an HR20 or equiv. with a 13" TV on the roof next to the dish, and navigate to each satellite in the menu's.

Took about 20 minutes, but got higher signal strength than the installers did.


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## Philly Bill (Oct 6, 2004)

I installed my own 5lnb dish.

No biggie.


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## sloan (Feb 13, 2003)

bpratt said:


> I installed my 5 LNB dish, but I purchased this tool to assist me:
> 
> http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?main_cat=02&CAT=&PROD=SACUTRACPRO


Yeah, I have one of these. Its the one that charges for 14 hours and provides 5 minutes of service. 
Is there a special 5LNB version? Mine is at least 2 years old, not sure because I bought it used.

..

Thanks guys. Sounds like with a little patience, one can do it.
The installation videos got me a little paranoid.

I've pointed 5-6 3LNB dishes, with the 13" TV tactic. And the 5 minute satellite tool (TRAC PRO).


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## Dssturbo1 (Feb 23, 2005)

i just put a hr21 on a 3 lnb dish today........not sure if it is exactly same for the hr20 but guessing it is..... 

i tried to just connect two sat cable intputs that had 90+ readings off the hr10 i just unhooked and let it go through and detect sat setup, NO GO. told me it was downloading guide data and then searching for signal way to long and to reset.

So I unplugged it and found I had to go into the sat setup and make sure it was set for 3 lnb 18x20" dish with multiswitch and dual tuner. it had alot of other options like Slimline 5, Slimline 3 and other options and it will warn you in that sat setup menu screen that you will not need the b band converters.

i figured if it was going to detect the sat dish setup that it should just do it automatically but not the case. but once i got it set correctly it went ok. get the regular sd channels and the hd in the 70's and also 88 for fox east hd.

so if you do take it on a trip and use a 3 lnb phase III type dish make sure you pick the right dish setup in the setup manu and should work fine for you at least until they take down the mpeg2 hd channels too.

i should have a Slimline 5 next week to get it all in order. have done several round and phase III with no problems, so if i get it plumb and use my opposable thumbs correctly i maybe good to go, LOL.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

sloan said:


> ...Sounds like with a little patience, one can do it.
> The installation videos got me a little paranoid...


It helps to understand the concepts, which is a little bit of spherical geometry. Just visualize the arc in your mind, and that it will not be a straight line but will be curved from any viewpoint other than on the equator (the farther north the more curved, lower on the ends and higher in the center). If you are familiar with declination offset, necessary for arc-steerable dishes, you can easily understand the concepts for a fixed multi-sat dish, which are actually a lot simpler.

I also suggest downloading the manual and following it religiously, with one huge exception: the manual insists that you can't align the dish using the reciever screens, and that you will absolutely need a SLM. I'm here to tell you that I have proven that to be totally wrong. If you are dilligent and understand the concepts behind what you are trying to accomplish, you can indeed do it using just the receiver screens.


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## sloan (Feb 13, 2003)

Dssturbo1 said:


> i just put a hr21 on a 3 lnb dish today........not sure if it is exactly same for the hr20 but guessing it is.....
> 
> i tried to just connect two sat cable intputs that had 90+ readings off the hr10 i just unhooked and let it go through and detect sat setup, NO GO. told me it was downloading guide data and then searching for signal way to long and to reset.
> 
> ...


Yeah, that sounds like the gotcha that could have gotten me. Thanks for that nugget of info.

Thanks to everyone else as well. I'll be uber anal about the plumb, and then hopefully it'll be just a matter of patience and a wrench.


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## queequegaz (Oct 13, 2008)

Greetings. I have an HR20 and would like to use it on my camper with a recently acquired AT9 (non-slimline 5LMB dish).

I can't figure out which "dish type" to use in the HR20 setup. Can one of you kind souls who's successfully paired an AT9 with an HR20 let me know what settings you used?

Thank you!


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## videojanitor (Dec 21, 2001)

Use the "Slimline-5" option. It's functionally equivalent to the AT9 as far as the receiver is concerned.


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## queequegaz (Oct 13, 2008)

videojanitor said:


> Use the "Slimline-5" option. It's functionally equivalent to the AT9 as far as the receiver is concerned.


Will do! Thank you very much!


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## useradmn (Nov 2, 2008)

I have a 5LNB slimline dish. I CANNOT get the dish to lock on to ANY satellites!!! Any suggestions? I followed the manual... Even purchased a satellite finder... The finder makes the high pitch sound when connected to the LNB output on the dish but when i connect the output from the LNB to the receiver, I get 0% signal strength. I have my Tilt, Elevation, and Azimuth set as suggested. 

I'm living in an apartment and have the dish on a post that's in a concrete-bucket setup (couldn't find any satellite tripod's in town)

I'm a newbie... so excuse my "newness". 

any help?


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## sloan (Feb 13, 2003)

useradmn said:


> I have a 5LNB slimline dish. I CANNOT get the dish to lock on to ANY satellites!!! Any suggestions? I followed the manual... Even purchased a satellite finder... The finder makes the high pitch sound when connected to the LNB output on the dish but when i connect the output from the LNB to the receiver, I get 0% signal strength. I have my Tilt, Elevation, and Azimuth set as suggested.
> 
> I'm living in an apartment and have the dish on a post that's in a concrete-bucket setup (couldn't find any satellite tripod's in town)
> 
> ...


First off, these listed items (below) are VERY RARE, but I will list them anyway.

FIRST HINT:
Strong signal, but no "bars" : It is possible to get a fix on the wrong sat at times. I don't know this for a fact, but sometimes while "fishing", I have gotten a fix on something else up in the sky. The only reason I knew this is because eventually I found the correct one.
OPTIONS: I always keep my single round dish around (esp when I'm doing an install in a place I don't know well). Its pretty easy to set up a round dish. Why? It gives me a "local perspective" on where 101 is. And I can also figure out the azimuth with a local perspective. What I mean is that you can get a decent idea with a compass...however, knowing that from my mounting pole to "directly over that oak tree" is sometimes a better perspective. And with the round dish....I don't have to guess. I look straight down the arm and can see it. Then if my azimuth is 240 degrees (for example), then I have some "local perspective" on it.

SECOND HINT:
Once I had a coaxial wire that used one of those "under the window" pig tails (about 8 inches long). And I got great signal strength....(>90). However, no picture. Well, I was like "huh??" and I started to hold and move around the pigtail. I could get a picture. I stopped holding the pigtail, and then ... no picture. So my sat was pointed correctly, but the pigtail was screwing me. Again, the signal-strength was >90 the entire time, so I don't know how that worked, but live and learn.
Eventually, I got in my crawlspace, drilled some holes and ran new wire.
OPTIONS: Either run a temp line with NEW cable and good connectors while setting the dish up....OR......use the 13" TV and get the TV and Receiver near the dish while pointing.
That's pretty much what I do now .... I take my 13" crappy tv (onto the roof or out near the dish pole in the ground) and I take an old receiver (with no card) just to do some basic pointing. Then when I get at least 101 working, I use a magic marker and mark that...then fine tune.
The first time you get a signal, try to mark that with a non permenent marker. Its amazing how quickly you can lose that first-contact point from memory.

THIRD HINT: 
Apartment. Are you putting the dish on your balcony/deck and do you have an overhang? If so, try to do the basic dish pointing as far "out" on the balcony/deck as you can. What I mean is to try and eliminate the overhang as a possible blocker. This got me at my brother's apartment one time. I was helping him setup a dish, and we tried to recess the dish back inside the deck. Well, we ended up blocking the signal from the "top side" by the ceiling of the balcony. I learnt that day, that the signal was coming in "from alot higher in the sky" than I originally thought. (This is dependant on where you're geographically of course, he was in VA).
We moved the dish using vice grips to the edge of the decking. We got the "local perspective" and figured out where the signal was coming from. Then we experimented with how-far-we-could-recess the dish back inside the deck. We ended up having the dish on the floor of the deck. It wasn't a great place for walking around the deck..however,...you could not see the dish from anywhere in the apartment courtyard. It wasn't in the middle of the deck. It was near the patio door (the one that doesn't slide) on the floor of the deck. It actually worked out nicely.

.............................

Good luck. I know it is uber frustrating sometimes....been there,....done that.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Also, and most important, be sure your pole is perfectly plumb (level in all directions). It's amazing how important this actually is.


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## sloan (Feb 13, 2003)

shibby191 said:


> Also, and most important, be sure your pole is perfectly plumb (level in all directions). It's amazing how important this actually is.


Agreed. The more time you spend anally getting this correct, the more it pays off later. Unless you're a rocket scientist, you can't "nudge compensate" for a non plumb mounting post.

PS
If your pole doesn't have the built in "bubble thing" for plumbing, go to a hardware store. They have ones now for $2 or so for stove top plumbing.

These are better than using a level and going back and forth.


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## sloan (Feb 13, 2003)

sloan said:


> for stove top plumbing.
> 
> .


As is....when you're installing a cooking - stove in your house, you can use these round levels and put it on top of the stove, getting it level from all angles at one (the same) time.

.............


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

sloan said:


> ...Unless you're a rocket scientist, you can't "nudge compensate" for a non plumb mounting post...


Well, actually you can. There is no imperative for a plumb mount (as there might be for a movable dish) but it does make aiming much easier.

All that really matters is the final resting place of the dish, and whether you get there with a plumb mount or not is ultimately not important in the end. IOW, having a non-plumb mount will not compromise reception. The dish only knows where its pointed, and that is all that matters. It has no earthly idea what's up with the mount underneath, nor does it care.

The only problem with a non-plumb mount is simply in its inconvenience. As you adjust in one aspect, you are also mis-adjusting in one of the others as well, which is a bit like trying to eat soup with a fork. But every installer has run into a mount already non-plumb in quickrete that they've had to work with. It takes a lot more doing, but its still doable.

Actually, in a way, DBS installers *are *rocket scientists (at the bare minimum level, in that they deal with receiving signals from transmitters delivered to space by rockets). I guess that makes you one, too


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

sloan said:


> ...Are you putting the dish on your balcony/deck and do you have an overhang? If so, try to do the basic dish pointing as far "out" on the balcony/deck as you can. What I mean is to try and eliminate the overhang as a possible blocker...the signal was coming in "from alot higher in the sky" than I originally thought...


This is no longer as rare as it was. I had a Phase III mounted with the typical L-pipe to the inside wall of my bacony, which was no problem. This meant it was recessed about 10 inches. Clearance was never an issue.

Replacing it with a Slimline revealed how important this can be. First of all, the larger L-pipe with the Slimline meant it would be recessed 14 inches, if mounted in the same manner. Combine that with the fact that the Slimline sits about 6 inches taller than the Phase III, and that up against the typical overhang can make the difference between a shaded reflector or one that isn't, which is the same as the difference between HD reception and no HD reception.

I got medieval on the mount, and flipped it around so that the top (actually the bottom) of the pipe exited directly adjacent to the inside wall, meaning there would be no offset. This was just enough to clear the overhang (since I could not otherwise compensate for the sheer physical size and height of the dish). I nailed two 2x4s on either side of the pipe, screwed it down to them with aluminum pipe hanger (HVAC type), and then coated the entire thing with a tube and a half of construction adhesive so that it can't budge.

So, especially if you live in the southern half of the US, the angle may be critical, as it was for me, and you may also have to get creative as I did (PM me for details if you like). In the interest of full disclosure, this also means the LNBF will project out over your common area about 10 inches, and the SHIVIA rules if strictly interpreted will prohibit this. Paint the dish 2 shades darker than your patio and it should be pretty invisible, tho.

The Slimline, like every DBS dish, is an offset dish, meaning signal does not come in perpendicular to the reflector. If you eyeball the angle from the LNBF to the very center of the dish and then imagine a reflection from that point, that gives you an idea where the signal really is coming from (and allows you to envision a blockage should you have one).


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

No one else has said this so I'll mention it. The first step to installing the new dish should be to find one nearby that is already adjusted and copy the settings from it. That way your dish will already be pointing in the right direction before you even start trying to aim it.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

HiDefGator said:


> No one else has said this so I'll mention it. The first step to installing the new dish should be to find one nearby that is already adjusted and copy the settings from it. That way your dish will already be pointing in the right direction before you even start trying to aim it.


Pretty impractical, unless you enjoy annoying your neighbors. The settings already appear on the GUI when you do the setup (cross-coded to the ZIP code), so there would be no practical reason to have to get that info the hard way.


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