# Roamio OTA with MoCa vs DECA



## KJDBonez (Oct 22, 2015)

I just got my Roamio HD OTA and plan on getting a Tivo Mini soon. Both of them will be installed on different floors than where my cable modem and router are set up (although this could be changed possibly if need be). I don't plan on retro-fitting the house with ethernet. The rooms with the TVs actually have two separate coax hook-ups because the house had previously been wired with an OTA signal and cable TV/internet signal coming in on separate wires and split throughout the house. Since I won't have digital cable TV anymore, one of the coax lines coming into the house will have OTA signal and one will have cable internet.

It is my understanding that in this situation (no digital cable signal on the coax line) the DECA ethernet-to-coax adapters will work to connect my Roamio OTA and Mini over one of my two coax networks. Is that correct? The DECA adapters are less than 1/10th the cost of a pair of MoCa adapters so this is obviously desirable if possible in my setup.

On a slightly related noted... I may be moving out to an apartment in the near future and don't plan on getting digital cable TV there either (although I'd have cable internet). Assuming that the apartment is only wired with coax and not ethernet, would I be able to use the same setup on a single coax network that has cable internet signal coming through or would that cause the same interference problems with the DECA as a digital cable TV signal?

In my situation are there other wired options than MoCa/DECA?

Thanks in advance for any information!


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

Having two coax systems should make it relatively easy to get DECA working.

DECA frequencies clash with OTA signals and with cable TV. Cable systems usually have TV signals on the cable, even when they are not used, so you will also need to keep the DECA signals off of the coax that feeds in your internet signals.

Easiest solution is to put OTA signals on one set of coax, and feed that to the coax input of the Roamio. The cable internet can feed directly into your cable modem. You'll need three DECA adapters. One will connect to your router and attach to the coax used for DECA signals. The other two are for the Roamio and the Mini, which will use Cat5e/Cat6 cables to connect to the DECA adapters.

Any unused ports on either coax tree should have 75-ohm terminations attached.

DECA is actually a lower frequency version of MoCA. In a normal MoCA system you would use a MoCA PoE filter to keep the MoCA signals inside the house and improve signal strength on the MoCA signals. I don't know if there is a DECA equivalent to a PoE filter, but since you'll have coax that is DECA only, we can improvise. I would suggest leaving the input of the "root" splitter for the DECA coax unconnected. With the arrangement, the DECA adapter near the modem/router would connect to an output port of the root splitter, and the other outputs of that splitter will pass signals down to the other DECA adapters. Leaving the input port unconnected on that splitter should allow the DECA signals to reflect in a manner similar to having a PoE filter in place.

You won't be able to do this same configuration in your new apartment, since DECA and OTA signals can't be mixed on the same coax.

It may be possible to use HPNA adapters with OTA, but they aren't as cheap as DECA. If you set up the cable modem near the Roamio, you could get by with a single MoCA adapter and use a diplexer to mix the MoCA and OTA signals onto a cable that feed the Mini.


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## KJDBonez (Oct 22, 2015)

Thank you for the reply. One other thing that I forgot to ask... Since my Chromecast and XBox get good enough wireless signal to stream things like Netflix to the TV in those respective rooms already, I assume the wireless in the Roamio OTA will also get a strong enough wireless signal to stream it's integrated Amazon, Netflix apps over my wireless. If I can exchange some of the coax in my basement to essentially have a direct coax connection between the Roamio OTA upstairs and the Mini in the basement I should only need a pair of the DECA adapters right? I would have a separate coax connection coming in upstairs through a separate jack to prove the OTA signal


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

KJDBonez said:


> Thank you for the reply. One other thing that I forgot to ask... Since my Chromecast and XBox get good enough wireless signal to stream things like Netflix to the TV in those respective rooms already, I assume the wireless in the Roamio OTA will also get a strong enough wireless signal to stream it's integrated Amazon, Netflix apps over my wireless. If I can exchange some of the coax in my basement to essentially have a direct coax connection between the Roamio OTA upstairs and the Mini in the basement I should only need a pair of the DECA adapters right? I would have a separate coax connection coming in upstairs through a separate jack to prove the OTA signal


I don't think the Roamio OTA can do any kind of wireless streaming. Once the DECA boxes are hooked up, you'll have a wired connection to your router, which will get internet access for Amazon, Netflix, etc.

If you want to stream over WiFi to laptops/tablets/phones, you'll need to add a TiVo Stream box to the system.

You'll only need two DECA adapters if your router is in the same room as the Roamio or Mini. If the router, Roamio and Mini are in three separate rooms you will need three DECA adapters.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

KJDBonez said:


> Thank you for the reply. One other thing that I forgot to ask... Since my Chromecast and XBox get good enough wireless signal to stream things like Netflix to the TV in those respective rooms already, I assume the wireless in the Roamio OTA will also get a strong enough wireless signal to stream it's integrated Amazon, Netflix apps over my wireless.


The Roamio OTA will need to be wired to support Mini streaming, either via Ethernet or MoCA (or DECA).

Given the deep discount on DECA adapters, and the benefits to be realized, I'd recommend linking your DECA coax to any room you have Ethernet-able gear, and adding a cheap Fast Ethernet switch in any room where there are multiple devices that can be connected. The now-wired devices will have a much more reliable (and likely much faster) connection and your wireless bandwidth will be conserved for those devices with no other option.

The coax network (DECA or MoCA) can also be used for placement of additional wireless access points, to address any Wi-Fi deadzones within your residence.


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## KJDBonez (Oct 22, 2015)

Sorry I think I misspoke in my last comment.. If the Roamio will be going in the room upstairs where my XBox is and I've been using XBox just fine to stream Netflix over my wifi (via HDMI to the TV), assuming the Roamio wifi adapter gets the same signal strength as my XBox I should be able to use my home wifi network through Roamio to watch its Netflix, Amazon, etc apps the same way. The ethernet port on the back of the Roamio will then be connected via DECA adapter to a coax which essentially is wired down to the basement and I plan to put the other DECA adapter down there to connect the Roamio directly to the Mini. I don't really have any wifi dead spots in the house, so I don't really need to add any wireless access points I just need a hardwired connection from Roamio to Mini which are two floors apart.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

KJDBonez said:


> Sorry I think I misspoke in my last comment.. If the Roamio will be going in the room upstairs where my XBox is and I've been using XBox just fine to stream Netflix over my wifi (via HDMI to the TV), assuming the Roamio wifi adapter gets the same signal strength as my XBox I should be able to use my home wifi network through Roamio to watch its Netflix, Amazon, etc apps the same way. The ethernet port on the back of the Roamio will then be connected via DECA adapter to a coax which essentially is wired down to the basement and I plan to put the other DECA adapter down there to connect the Roamio directly to the Mini. I don't really have any wifi dead spots in the house, so I don't really need to add any wireless access points* I just need a hardwired connection from Roamio to Mini which are two floors apart.*


*This hardwired network also needs to extend to your router*, since there is no hybrid networking option on the Roamio; it's wireless *or* wired, not both. And the same for the Mini. And since the DECA adapters will necessarily be hardwired to the router (via the DECA coax network), it makes sense to take advantage of this for the other networked devices in the same room as the Roamio. Optional, of course, but likely beneficial.



KJDBonez said:


> If I can exchange some of the coax in my basement to essentially have a direct coax connection between the Roamio OTA upstairs and the Mini in the basement *I should only need a pair of the DECA adapters right?*


*You'll need 3 DECA adapters*, assuming neither the Roamio or Mini can be connected via Ethernet cabling back to your router's LAN ports.

1 adapter at your modem/router location, to create the DECA network
1 adapter at your Roamio
1 adapter at your Mini
Optionally, you can connect the DECA adapter connected to the Roamio or Mini to a network switch, instead, to hard-wire multiple Ethernet-capable devices through the DECA network.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

KJDBonez,

I use DECA throughout my house, but I've never tried what you're proposing. I think you'll find that it either won't work at all or will work for live/recorded TV, but not for streaming (Netflix, etc.) because there is no bridge to your LAN anywhere in the DECA system. 

I think it would be better to simply connect your Roamio's ethernet to your LAN (no DECA required), connect at least one DECA adapter to your LAN, and connect a DECA adapter to each Mini. You could use DECA at your Roamio as well if you can't use ethernet to your LAN directly, but you still need another DECA somewhere to bridge your coax network to your LAN.

EDIT: Looks like Kaufman posted about the same thing the same time I did. The difference is, I say you can get by with only 2 DECAs only IF you can connect your Roamio directly to your LAN via ethernet.


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## KJDBonez (Oct 22, 2015)

Thank you both for that information. Very helpful! I'll get 3 DECA adapters and get one of those 5 port switches on amazon for like $10 (I'm assuming this will work fine http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000F...ort+switch&dpPl=1&dpID=31Z+eYlK5-L&ref=plSrch) and then I can also connect the new Roku 4 I got up next to the Roamio 

I'll have to install a coax splitter so I can send the DECA network to the basement and upstairs... is there a special kind of splitter that is necessary for this? Thanks again


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

mdavej said:


> I use DECA throughout my house, but I've never tried what you're proposing. I think you'll find that it either won't work at all or will work for live/recorded TV, but not for streaming (Netflix, etc.) because there is no bridge to your LAN anywhere in the DECA system.


Yes, even though he could establish a DECA segment strictly between the Roamio and Mini, the joy would be short-lived ... on finding that neither device can be used because they can't connect via the Internet to the TiVo service to verify activation, receive software or guide updates, etc.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Sounds like a great plan. I have an 8 port gigabit switch behind my TV and use all the ports. But 100Mbps should be sufficient.

A regular old coax splitter is all that's needed. I try to use quality 1GHz ones with low loss (3.5dB), but you can probably get by with lesser quality.

@Kaufman,

LOL, forgot about that (head slap).


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

KJDBonez said:


> Thank you both for that information. Very helpful!


Great! Happy to help, and great to hear feedback.



KJDBonez said:


> I'll get 3 DECA adapters and get one of those 5 port switches on amazon for like $10 ... and then I can also connect the new Roku 4 I got up next to the Roamio


Yes, exactly! And a Fast Ethernet (10/100 Mbps) switch is absolutely fine, since the Ethernet ports on the DECA adapters are likely spec'd as Fast Ethernet (100 Mbps), as well. (i.e. No reason to spend extra on a Gigabit Ethernet switch, where all traffic will be heading over the DECA link, rather than between the locally connected devices.)

As an aside, let's say you were to have a room with a Gigabit-capable PC and a Gigabit-capable NAS storage device that you wanted to wire to your DECA network. In this case, using a Gigabit-capable network switch would make sense, so that the PC and NAS could communicate between each other at their maximum possible rate -- while their speed to the rest of the network would be limited by the DECA adapter.



KJDBonez said:


> I'll have to install a coax splitter so I can send the DECA network to the basement and upstairs... *is there a special kind of splitter that is necessary for this?*


No. In fact, DECA (i.e. DirecTV MoCA) makes it even easier than MoCA (i.e. cable MoCA), since DECA's frequencies are down in the antenna/cable TV range ... so any ol' cable TV splitter should get the job done, providing it's not defective. (i.e. splitter rated 5-860MHz)

You just need a Goldilocks splitter... a splitter with just the right number of ports, not too few and not too many. Ideally, your splitter will have exactly the number of ports you need, so as to minimize the signal degradation you'd experience from the unneeded additional splitting of the signal.

Once your cable runs are connected to the splitter, screw a 75-ohm terminator cap onto any unused ports on the splitter, including the input, to reduce noise and improve signal reflection.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

One last thing, KJD, whatever DECA adapters you end up ordering, make sure they come with power supplies. The $10 Amazon ones in another recent thread are the correct ones. The ones without power supplies are cheaper, but you'll have to supply the power, which is tricky without all the correct connectors and more expensive in the end.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

krkaufman said:


> Once your cable runs are connected to the splitter, screw a 75-ohm terminator cap onto any unused ports on the splitter, including the input, to reduce noise and improve signal reflection.


Definitely put terminations on unused output ports. The system might work better with no termination on the unused input port. Try it both ways to see which works better.


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## KJDBonez (Oct 22, 2015)

I ordered two pairs of DECA adapters on Amazon that come with the power supplies so I should be good to go with that.

I think with my setup I won't have any unused terminals. In the room with the cable modem/router I'll run one DECA adapter off my router with 4-port switch into the coax in the wall. Downstream from that coax I with have a 1 -> 2 splitter with one coax going upstairs to the Roamio OTA and the other coax going down to the basement to the Mini. On a completely separate coax that is also installed to the upstairs bedroom I'll have the OTA signal coming through to go into the Romio. I also ended up getting one of those cheap Fast Ethernet switches for next to the Roamio so I can hook my Roku up to it and/or Xbox 360.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

KJDBonez said:


> I ordered two pairs of DECA adapters on Amazon that come with the power supplies so I should be good to go with that.
> 
> I think with my setup I won't have any unused terminals. In the room with the cable modem/router I'll run one DECA adapter off my router with 4-port switch into the coax in the wall. Downstream from that coax I with have a 1 -> 2 splitter with one coax going upstairs to the Roamio OTA and the other coax going down to the basement to the Mini. On a completely separate coax that is also installed to the upstairs bedroom I'll have the OTA signal coming through to go into the Romio. I also ended up getting one of those cheap Fast Ethernet switches for next to the Roamio so I can hook my Roku up to it and/or Xbox 360.


I will probably work fine. Try it and let us know. Your system is effectively equivalent to a MoCA system with no PoE filter. You'll have strong signals between the DECA next to the cable modem/router and both DECAs next to the TiVos, so the Roamio and Mini should each be able to access the internet to download guide information, software updates, and to stream from Netflix or other providers. The place where your system *might* have problems is streaming data from the Roamio to the Mini. Since there is nothing analogous to a PoE filter in your system, the DECA signals between the Roamio and Mini will be much weaker. Fortunately, the MoCA technology in the DECA adapters is designed to work well even with weak signals. If you don't see any stuttering or pixelation on the Mini then everything should be good to go.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Sounds very much like a plan. Let us know how it works out.

Good luck...!


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## KJDBonez (Oct 22, 2015)

So far its working out great! I'm still waiting on my Tivo Mini to be activated, but the attached DECA adapter says it is getting a network connection. The Tivo OTA upstairs is streaming flawlessly through the DECA/ethernet connection and with my new antenna I'm getting a lot of OTA signals which is nice. Say goodbye to $170/month cable bill!


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