# Figuring out savings between Fios and TiVo



## NeedtoReadMore (Feb 9, 2012)

I'm current using Verizon Fios triple play and I wanted to switch to TiVo thinking I was going to saving money, but I can't figure out the savings.

Fios triple play is phone, internet, and TV with a free DVR for life, a SD STB and I pay $5 for a HD STB. Locked in $80 bundle + $5 for 2 years. Total $85.

I bought a brand new TiVo HD TCD652160 and a brand new TiVo Series 2 80 Hrs from Blockbuster (both are still unopened because if I can't figure this out, I'm going to return them or sell them). Total $75.

I'm leaving the tax out to simplify the math.

If I pay monthly
Fios $85 
Tivo $30 plus tax (multi-room discount) + I still need to pay for Phone and Internet $70. Total $100 monthly. Plus cost of boxes

If I pay the full PSL for both
Fios $85 X 48 months = $4080 (I can't lock in the $85 rate for 4 year)
Tivo $1000 for life, the boxes can break or be obsolete after 4 years plus Phone and Internet for $70 X 48 months = $3360. Total is $4360. Plus cost of boxes. 

If I pay the discounted PSL for both (I don't qualify) 
Fios $85 X 48 months = $4080 (I can't lock in the $85 rate for 4 year)
Tivo $800 for life, the boxes can break or be obsolete after 4 years plus Phone and Interent for $70 X 48 months = $3360. Total is $4160. Plus cost of boxes. 

Am I missing something? Is there any benefit?

Thanks for reading


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

It seems like you think you can replace FIOS with Tivo? You still need to pay for cable to use a Tivo.


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## NeedtoReadMore (Feb 9, 2012)

WhiskeyTango said:


> It seems like you think you can replace FIOS with Tivo? You still need to pay for cable to use a Tivo.


Holy cow. I don't know.

So what is the benefit of Tivo over Fios boxes? Doesn't seem to be a financial reason.

I guess I'm returning the Tivo boxes.

Whiskey, thank you for your reply.


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## robaustin (Nov 14, 2004)

.....of Tivo is the DVR. If you got two FIOS HD boxes with DVRs in them what would you pay - versus the Tivos. Tha is where the potential savings MIGHT BE. Plus - even if Tivo is more - you are paying the premium for a far superior DVR box that can also do Netflix streaming, Pandora, etc.....


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

A proper comparison would be a TiVo vs. a Fios multi-room DVR (multi-room, because a TiVo has the same capability). The latter is $20 a month, no option to buy. The TiVo also needs a CableCard from Fios ($4 a month), or a set-top box in the case of a Series 2 (~$5 for a low-end box), in addition to the cost of TiVo service. Lifetime TiVo service @ $500 would therefore take $500 / ($20 - $4) = just under 32 months to pay off, not counting the cost of the TiVo itself. After that you'd be saving $16 every month.

But obviously TiVo can't compete with "free", as you say you're paying for your DVR now. This is based on normal pricing.

Contrary to what WhiskeyTango said, you _can_ use a TiVo without paying for TV service -- most models will work with free OTA. In that case you really could subtract the cost of TV service, too.

I don't know the details of your bundle, but I find it hard to believe that you could drop your TV service entirely, return the DVR and the STB, and only save $15 a month. And leaving out the "tax" (which mostly isn't), which on the TV service is quite high, does not make for a fair comparison.

However, I'd agree that TiVo is not, primarily, trying to compete on price, and the goal of saving money is probably not a good reason to buy one. TiVo is a premium service.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Well, the free DVR options are pretty rare - only available for short periods in expanding markets.

But hey - sounds like you are getting a pretty good deal - if you like the Verizon DVR, then go for it.

in the normal deal @ $20 a month - you would pay off the TiVo PLS In 20 months.

Oh - when you are tired of the outdated DVR - you will have to pay for a new one, also if you want a second DVR that works with you system, you will pay full price.

A TiVo with lifetime service has significant resaie value when it is time to upgrade.

Looks like you have all the info you need to make a decision. If you were really considering the option...


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

NeedtoReadMore said:


> So what is the benefit of Tivo over Fios boxes? Doesn't seem to be a financial reason.


Better UI, you can download recordings to your computer (you can't do that on ANY other DVRs, AFAIK). You can use other services like Netflix from the Tivo (yes it has a bad interface, supposedly to improve sometime soon on the newest boxes only).

Over a few years (amortized lifetime), it *CAN* be financially better, with a far better UI.. so two benefits. Plus, you can sell the lifetime Tivo for a few hundred.

Basically -- they're mostly more reliable and "do what you want them to do", i.e. reliably record the shows you tell them to. (yes, people, including me, DO have problems with them.. but that's still far less often than I see people complain about cable company DVRs that miss recordings with NO clue about what happened.)


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

bradleys said:


> in the normal deal @ $20 a month - you would pay off the TiVo PLS In 20 months.


From that $20, you need to subtract the CableCard rent that you still have to pay (so it's only $16 savings a month); and apparently, PLS for the first TiVo is all the way up to $500 now. So, again -- 32 months (technically 31.25).


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

wmcbrine said:


> Contrary to what WhiskeyTango said, you _can_ use a TiVo without paying for TV service -- most models will work with free OTA. In that case you really could subtract the cost of TV service, too.


I knew someone was going to bring this up. I was speaking specifically to the fact that the OP was looking to replace his cable service with Tivo, as if he was simply changing carriers.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

NeedtoReadMore said:


> Holy cow. I don't know.
> 
> So what is the benefit of Tivo over Fios boxes? Doesn't seem to be a financial reason.
> 
> ...


 You save a bunch of money when using your own TiVos instead of the FiOS DVRs. Plus the TiVos run circles around the FiOS DVRs. If I would have been using FiOS DVRs for the last 4.5 years I've had FiOS, I would have paid alot more more money for DVR use, plus I would have had an inferior product.

And this is with Lifetime service. It's the only service that makes monetary sense in the long term. Since they have a high resale value so when a new model comes out, you can easily sell your existing model to cover most of the cost of the new one. This is what I did with my Premieres. I sold all my S3 and TiVoHD boxes which covered most of the cost of my Premiere boxes with lifetime service. Although I do have one Premiere on a $6.95 a month plan.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

wmcbrine said:


> From that $20, you need to subtract the CableCard rent that you still have to pay (so it's only $16 savings a month); and apparently, PLS for the first TiVo is all the way up to $500 now. So, again -- 32 months (technically 31.25).


Exactly why you need to have more then one TiVo!


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## Joe01880 (Feb 8, 2009)

I also get a free DVR from FiOS and have for a LONG time now. Still even with the latest update from FiOS TiVo runs circles around the FiOS Motorola 7232-2. I like the FiOS DVR _but it aint no TiVo_.
*IF* you were paying for the FiOS DVR and you get a TiVo with lifetime service and *IF* it gave you 3 + years of breakdown free service you _might _save a few bucks. Like others have said TiVo is a premium product, if you can afford it I highly recomend buying one. The user interface, menus and guide data reliability are all great reasons why TiVo is better than FiOS DVR's. FiOS has On Demand which is the only thing TiVo does not have but it does offer many other choices for paying more money to watch movies and shows you could (in many cases) record anyway.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

The problem is they only give you one free DVR for life. The lowest number of TiVos I've ever used was between 2001 and 2004 when I only used three with DirecTV. Then the HD TiVos came out in 2004 and I added two more TiVos.

Although I have the lowest amount of TiVos in years now with only four in use.
But either way, if I had a FiOS DVR for life I would still have the cost of several more FiOS DVRs to replace my TiVos. And I would never own them. So in the long term no, matter what, the cable company DVRs end up costing, much, much more.


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## NeedtoReadMore (Feb 9, 2012)

Thank you for detailed explanations.


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## jeepguy_1980 (Mar 2, 2008)

I just renewed my FiOS for two years. The gave me a choice of a couple different offers. One was a free multi-room dvr for the next 24 months. The other was a $300 pre-paid visa. I took the visa and applied it towards the purchase of a TiVo Elite with lifetime.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

jeepguy_1980 said:


> I just renewed my FiOS for two years. The gave me a choice of a couple different offers. One was a free multi-room dvr for the next 24 months. The other was a $300 pre-paid visa. I took the visa and applied it towards the purchase of a TiVo Elite with lifetime.


Pay close attention to your first bill. I recently got mine after getting a similar deal and the bill was borked. 
They were giving me the triple play(Ultimate HD, 35/35 Internet, Unlimited DIgital Voice) for the normal price of $140 instead of the $119 I was supposed to get.
Although it did work out in the end, they gave me a $25 credit for the first month to cover the difference and then gave me a loyal customer discount of $10 a month for a year.
So for at least a year it will take my price back down to what I was paying when I only had TV and Internet.
And the second year will be the price that my old bundle would have been with the price increase.
I only wish I wouldn't have signed up for three years with VOIPo a few months before FiOS offered this. Since I can't get a prorated refund from VOIPo.
But at least the $300 gift card will more than cover the $180 I paid to VOIPo.


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## jeepguy_1980 (Mar 2, 2008)

Thanks. I will watch my bill.

I already had all three FiOS services. I printed my confirmation (to pdf), which shows that my new bill for the next 24 months is actually $5.00 cheaper than what I had been paying, and is $124/month.

What is VOIPo?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

jeepguy_1980 said:


> Thanks. I will watch my bill.
> 
> I already had all three FiOS services. I printed my confirmation (to pdf), which shows that my new bill for the next 24 months is actually $5.00 cheaper than what I had been paying, and is $124/month.
> 
> What is VOIPo?


It's a Voice Over IP service similar to Vonage, only much cheaper. I had signed up for three years for only $185 and was very happy with the service and price. But when the FiOS deal came along I figured I would get it.

I double checked yesterday and I am able to get a prorated refund. Although they take off the normal price of $15 for every month, so I wish I had done it a couple of months ago. Plus I need to return the adapter. But I should be able to get at least half my money back. Which isn't too bad considering I thought I couldn't get any back.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

wmcbrine said:


> From that $20, you need to subtract the CableCard rent that you still have to pay (so it's only $16 savings a month); and apparently, PLS for the first TiVo is all the way up to $500 now. So, again -- 32 months (technically 31.25).


Technically, It's actually closer to 34. If I had $500, I'd invest it in something that pays interest and then use that money + interest to make the monthly payment to myself to represent the "savings." If you run the NPV calculations on a 6% rate of return (used to be standard... these days, that's maybe a little high) you end up running out of money on the 34th payment.

So, you have to keep the TiVo > 34 months to profit.

The weird thing is, with most technology, I'd say that's awful. But since cable companies move so slowly, TiVo's have a longer relevant life than most hardware. I've had my S3 since the month it was released and it's still going strong.


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