# Can a cablecard be purchased on ebay and used in Tivo?



## adamwsh (Oct 22, 2002)

If I purchased a cablecard on ebay, could I successfully use it in my TivoHD on Fios?


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## SpiritualPoet (Jan 14, 2007)

No. Each cablecard is the property of the issuer (cable firm) and has unique electronic serial number known to the issuer. It will not function as it can't be paired - not legally and not ethically.


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## donniesd (Jun 16, 2011)

SpiritualPoet said:


> No. Each cablecard is the property of the issuer (cable firm) and has unique electronic serial number known to the issuer. It will not function as it can't be paired - not legally and not ethically.


What does ethically or legally have to do with anything. Hell if who ever did not return the card, they were sure billed for the cost of it. So some it might be worth the $150 bill from the cable provider for the card.


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## sddave (May 2, 2008)

donniesd said:


> What does ethically or legally have to do with anything. Hell if who ever did not return the card, they were sure billed for the cost of it. So some it might be worth the $150 bill from the cable provider for the card.


Why would any one want to pay $150 for a cable card that his next provider would not put the serial number in their system or pair to maintain the channel mapping.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

You *MIGHT* be able to use it for OTA guide "pairing". You likely won't be able to use it for premium channels (even if you pay for them) due to the pairing issue people are talking about.

I'd be vaguely interested in getting one just for the OTA channel guide issue..


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

The whole idea of cable cards was your cable company subscription authentication would not be in a cable-company owned set top, but would be reduced to a cable-company owned cable card that could be put into customer-owned equipment. They trust their own cards to enforce their authentication, but don't trust random hardware that comes from some unknown source.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

I believe some providers used to sell them (Didn't Raj say he had to buy his?)


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## randywalters (Oct 21, 2003)

adamwsh said:


> If I purchased a cablecard on ebay, could I successfully use it in my TivoHD on Fios?


You shouldn't even be able to buy a CableCard on EBay (at least not in the USA) as they're the property of the cable franchise that rented it to the subscriber. If it's on Ebay, then it's probably stolen - and it will not work with your provider. Same goes for cable boxes and cable DVRs.


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## swSteve (Aug 25, 2006)

randywalters said:


> You shouldn't even be able to buy a CableCard on EBay (at least not in the USA) as they're the property of the cable franchise that rented it to the subscriber. If it's on Ebay, then it's probably stolen - and it will not work with your provider. Same goes for cable boxes and cable DVRs.


This... and "Unethical to buy a Cable Card"?

What a load of Hogwash.

You should all be ashamed of yourselves for propagating this kind
of baseless and slanderous BS.

So you're saying that the current eBay auction entitled
"Lot of 3000 - Motorola M-Card MediaCipher" are all stolen?

That's THREE THOUSAND.

Go Ahead. Call the Police if you don't believe that a Cable company
can sell off surplus assets. Better than going into a landfill.

Like it or not, those perfectly fine cable cards are now on the market
for any interested buyer.

Steve


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

swSteve said:


> This... and "Unethical to buy a Cable Card"?
> 
> What a load of Hogwash.
> 
> ...


Just an observation.

Almost 5 years here and THIS is what makes you finally come out and post your first post? LOL!

Must have some strong feelings on the issue.

That is all...carry on.


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## randywalters (Oct 21, 2003)

swSteve said:


> This... and "Unethical to buy a Cable Card"?
> 
> What a load of Hogwash.
> 
> ...


Don't be ridiculous. There's a huge difference between an electronics salvager selling a $21,999 bulk lot of used surplus CableCards (obviously targeting a commercial buyer or a cable provider or even a recycler), as compared to a private individual selling one CableCard on Ebay to an unsuspecting buyer (such as the OP) as if he can use it with any cable provider. I have seen countless posts on AVS and other forums over the years where people have bought Cable DVRs, Cable Boxes, and CableCards off Ebay and not a single one of em was able to get it to work on their cable system or get their cable provider to make it work on their system. They buy it, _then_ they come to the forums and ask why it won't work.

Name one USA cable company that sells CableCards to the public or on Ebay.

Name one USA cable company that will allow you to use an Ebay-bought CableCard (or any CableCard not supplied by them) on their network.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

randywalters said:


> Name one USA cable company that sells CableCards to the public or on Ebay.


In general I agree 100% with your post, but there are a few threads floating around TCF about users in small cable markets where the cable company insists the user buy the cableCARD for a decent chunk of change, so it is out there, but rare.


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## segaily (Aug 3, 2003)

randywalters said:


> Name one USA cable company that sells CableCards to the public or on Ebay.
> 
> Name one USA cable company that will allow you to use an Ebay-bought CableCard (or any CableCard not supplied by them) on their network.


When the S3 first came out I lived in Rochester NH. The cable company was Metrocast and they made me buy my cable cards for $100 each. I have moved since and I think they rent them now but they certainly used to sell them.

If I sold the cards to another metrocast user I would think they would have had to let you use them. I doubt most cable companys would let you use them however.


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## dwit (May 5, 2004)

Seems to me, cable companies have enough issues with their own cards, which they provide, much less trying to support some "unknown" piece of equipment, from who knows where.


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## swSteve (Aug 25, 2006)

randywalters said:


> Don't be ridiculous. There's a huge difference between an electronics salvager selling a $21,999 bulk lot of used surplus CableCards (obviously targeting a commercial buyer or a cable provider or even a recycler), as compared to a private individual selling one CableCard on Ebay to an unsuspecting buyer (such as the OP) as if he can use it with any cable provider. I have seen countless posts on AVS and other forums over the years where people have bought Cable DVRs, Cable Boxes, and CableCards off Ebay and not a single one of em was able to get it to work on their cable system or get their cable provider to make it work on their system. They buy it, _then_ they come to the forums and ask why it won't work.
> 
> Name one USA cable company that sells CableCards to the public or on Ebay.
> 
> Name one USA cable company that will allow you to use an Ebay-bought CableCard (or any CableCard not supplied by them) on their network.


So you have conveniently forgotten all about your own ridiculous post
and changed the subject completely.

Without missing a beat you've gone from accusing the
eBay sellers of THEFT (without a shred of proof) to a new
contention that it is not worth buying these cards because they
won't be authorized.

Well here's some more news for you, Inspector Lestrade.

Had you taken one moment to check the eBay listings,
you would have seen that the seller of the 3000 cards,
"lost-circuits" is ALSO offering INDIVIDUAL CARDS for $19.99
in an auction entitled "Motorola M-Card MediaCipher Multi Stream Cable Card"

Your contention is false.

Like I said: Hogwash and BS.

Steve


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

swSteve said:


> So you have conveniently forgotten all about your
> own ridiculous post and changed the subject completely.


You are shocked ... shocked to find that there is imperfect posting going on at TCF!

This place is closed until further notice? Or could we just calm down a little bit and have some fun here, flawed as the playground may be.


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## brewman (Jun 29, 2003)

One thing that's not clear to me is why go to the trouble and expense of buying a cable card on ebay? Sure, if you can get it to work on your cable network, and that's a really,really,really big IF, you'll eventually save money even if the payback period is several years, but with the monthly cost of a cable card from the cable company being fairly low ($1.50/month at Charter in Gwinnett,GA) why bother?


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## swSteve (Aug 25, 2006)

Wil said:


> You are shocked ... shocked to find that there is imperfect posting going on at TCF!
> 
> This place is closed until further notice? Or could we just calm down a little bit and have some fun here, flawed as the playground may be.


Good perspective.

I'm reminded that it is actually Big Cable, and not any posters
that is the culprit here.

They are uncooperative and continue to place obstacles in the path of
TiVo causing years of extra work and a sub-par user experience!

Steve


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## segaily (Aug 3, 2003)

dwit said:


> Seems to me, cable companies have enough issues with their own cards, which they provide, much less trying to support some "unknown" piece of equipment, from who knows where.


I think I have read that there are only 2 brands of cards so it really should not be any extra work for a cable company to support a card from e bay as long as it is the same brand as they already use.


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## jondar (Aug 15, 2004)

randywalters said:


> Name one USA cable company that sells CableCards to the public or on Ebay.


Let's try the first cable company in the U.S., Service Electric:

http://www.sectv.com/LV/cable_card.html

A little over 42 months before you break even, but it's certainly available.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

segaily said:


> I think I have read that there are only 2 brands of cards so it really should not be any extra work for a cable company to support a card from e bay as long as it is the same brand as they already use.


Except cable companies have IMNSHO proved themselves to be about the greediest group out there with anything they can charge for, they will, they view that $3 per month per card from the user as THEIR money.

When you think of how much trouble they have even properly configuring their own CableCARDs, I can't imagine them even pondering letting any unknown card come into the ecosystem.

Since the CableCARD is the gatekeeper to all their riches (in their minds) letting a card in that they do not own and control fully seems like something I would never see them doing.


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## segaily (Aug 3, 2003)

I agree that most cable companies are unlikely to allow people to use cards that they purchased. I am just saying it really should not be any more work for them.


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## dwit (May 5, 2004)

segaily said:


> I agree that most cable companies are unlikely to allow people to use cards that they purchased. I am just saying it really should not be any more work for them.


It would probably be more "work for them". Whatever issues they have with their own cards are likely to be added to, maybe multiple fold, by dealing with these "unknown"(counterfeit, damaged, etc) cards.

For all we know, that 30,000 lot of ebay cards were ultimately sourced from inoperable cards collected and/or returned by cable companies.

Again, the cable industry seems to struggle enough with getting their own cards to work. How many stories are here in these forums of techs carrying multiple cards, in hopes of getting just one to work.

What do you think the tech, and the super is going to say when they try to activate the "unknown" card, and it doesn't work? When it's their card, it's all on them as far as getting it to work. They are accountable only to themselves for hours of lost work, etc.

Do you think they want to go through this with some "counterfeit, and/ or damaged" ebay card?


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

dianebrat said:


> Since the CableCARD is the gatekeeper to all their riches (in their minds) letting a card in that they do not own and control fully seems like something I would never see them doing.


I think that this is the key issue for why they insist on their own cards, rather it just being a support issue. It is the cable cards that enforce that you can only see the channels you have paid for. They are not going to trust some unknown, perhaps counterfeit, piece of hardware to control access to what they consider their valuable property.


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## zowwie85 (Jul 25, 2010)

Aside from the debate over legal, ethical... Some cable companies in Canada used to accept outside equipment including boxes from the US. If you've read the top-of-form 'sticky' postings on outside equipment in the "Rogers" and "Shaw" forums on Digital Home Canada dot com (I don't recall if its a no-no to post a link), a pattern is clear:

The Motorola-branded hardware, in some cases, is portable between Motorola-based headends provided the user can determine the unit's serial number, the box can tune to the right control channel and compatible firmware is present already on the 3rd-party system. Lots of "if's."

Scientific Atlanta cablecards (or anything) must have been staged in the cable company's servers. Only the company that bought the device gets the secret key from Cisco used to sign the entitlement management messages ('hit', or GBAM) sent to the card. Another cable company could not activate the device even if they wanted to, they would have to somehow obtain and load the unique key for that card. Cisco is only going to release it to the original purchaser.

IF cable companies with Motorola systems wanted to, they likely could activate cards or boxes bought from outside but it would be a huge headache. The practice got shut down up north. (a) it's a support hassle and (b) there may have been pressure from the manufacturers and/or the rightful owners of the equipment.

Portability just isn't a consideration on these devices. This is very similar to trying to take a Sprint device and make it work on Verizon.

Oh, and the Service Electric link is hilarious. "Go wire-free with a cablecard?!" There's an SDV rats nest behind my TV.


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## randywalters (Oct 21, 2003)

jondar said:


> Let's try the first cable company in the U.S., Service Electric:
> 
> http://www.sectv.com/LV/cable_card.html


I did say that if someone is selling a CableCard on EBay, it's *probably* stolen, not absolutely positively stolen. Sure there are some small cable companies in the USA that sell CableCards directly to their subscribers, but they don't sell them to the general public and they don't sell them on EBay. Now if the OP happened to live in the area served by such a cable company, and the EBay seller was in the same area and he'd originally bought the CableCard from the same company and is selling it for use with said cable company, then i suppose his idea would work, providing that company allows it's subscribers to to resell their CableCard to another local subscriber and would be willing to authorize it and get it working.

My point to the OP was that if he buys a CableCard on EBay, he almost assuredly won't be able to get his cable provider to authorize it or allow it to be used on their network, even if it were physically possible. Why should they? I recommend he call his cable company and ask if they would allow a random CableCard bought on EBay to be used on their network. I'm sure the answer would be no.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

brewman said:


> One thing that's not clear to me is why go to the trouble and expense of buying a cable card on ebay? Sure, if you can get it to work on your cable network, and that's a really,really,really big IF, you'll eventually save money even if the payback period is several years, but with the monthly cost of a cable card from the cable company being fairly low ($1.50/month at Charter in Gwinnett,GA) why bother?


several years?

Some of these auctions are less than $10 per cable card.

I can *very* easily envision having a "legit" cablecard for a premium device, and an eBay cablecard just to get guide data mapping for OTA channels.

Since the OTA channels are NOT encrypted, if this works (which I believe someone confirmed in another thread), this seems reasonable to me.

You would not only save the cablecard price itself, but also an extra digital outlet fee.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

randywalters said:


> My point to the OP was that if he buys a CableCard on EBay, he almost assuredly won't be able to get his cable provider to authorize it or allow it to be used on their network, even if it were physically possible. Why should they? I recommend he call his cable company and ask if they would allow a random CableCard bought on EBay to be used on their network. I'm sure the answer would be no.


Exactly my impression of the way it will all shake out also.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

mattack said:


> several years?
> 
> Some of these auctions are less than $10 per cable card.
> 
> ...


So you're saying that an unauthorized unpaired CableCARD will do QAM channel mapping? (let's not muddy the waters saying OTA, it's not OTA, it's clear QAM.)


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## adamwsh (Oct 22, 2002)

jondar said:


> Let's try the first cable company in the U.S., Service Electric:
> 
> http://www.sectv.com/LV/cable_card.html
> 
> A little over 42 months before you break even, but it's certainly available.


Nice find!

So, this proves it CAN be done. But in this case the card is coming from the provider itself. I guess I should just call Verizon and ask. I'm guessing they'll say no.


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## randywalters (Oct 21, 2003)

adamwsh said:


> Nice find! So, this proves it CAN be done. But in this case the card is coming from the provider itself. I guess I should just call Verizon and ask. I'm guessing they'll say no.


It only "can be done" if the CableCard is sold to you buy your cable provider. This only works because they've keyed the CableCard to their encrypted network before selling it to their subscribers, so it works with their system whether they rent it to you or sell it to you. So in that situation, yes it can be done. It's done a lot in Canada.

But your original question was if you can use an EBay-bought CableCard with your provider which is a completely different situation. It is extremely unlikely that Fios or any other provider will authorize or enable a CableCard that you did not rent or buy from said provider. I have never heard of anyone having success with this.

In the various AVS Cable/DVR/HDTV forums as well as the SA8000HD/SA8300HD mailing list, many people have bought "used" cable DVRs from Ebay and not a single one of these people have been able to get it working with their provider for the reasons above. The same holds true with a CableCard.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

dianebrat said:


> So you're saying that an unauthorized unpaired CableCARD will do QAM channel mapping? (let's not muddy the waters saying OTA, it's not OTA, it's clear QAM.)


Yes, it should - when I first got an HD a few years ago the tech couldn't figure out how to pair the card, so for a couple of days all we had were the local channels plus a few of the expanded basics. The mapping is done correctly, you just can't view a bunch of the channels because they're not authorized.

It's sad that we can't buy our own cards, but kind of moot now on Comcast since they are giving credits for Tivos using them.


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