# LOST - The Candidate 5/4



## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

It's officially in the home stretch....

sad to see Sun, Jin, and Lapidus go (not so sad about the 'new' Sayid)

Of course there's no WAY anyone would survive four sticks of C4 in an enclosed tube, but that's for another time


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## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

The four on the beach are the same four that Michael kidnapped for the Others ... I have no idea what that means.


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## caslu (Jun 24, 2003)

Paperboy2003 said:


> It's officially in the home stretch....
> 
> sad to see Sun, Jin, and Lapidus go (not so sad about the 'new' Sayid)


At least we got to see Sayid redeem himself... so, was that the highest single episode death toll ever for regular characters on a television series?



Spoiler



Looks like next week we finally get back stories for Jacob and the man in black (and I'm starting to believe the theory that says they're different halves of the same person).


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## maharg18 (Dec 4, 2002)

Bodies definitely were piling up in tonight's episode, on both sides! I do like to see "Locke" in rampage mode.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

Paperboy2003 said:


> It's officially in the home stretch....
> 
> sad to see Sun, Jin, and Lapidus go (not so sad about the 'new' Sayid)


I seriously can't believe they just killed Jin and Sun like that--didn't see it coming at all. Although I'm sure that's not the end of them--something tells me the people who died will live on in the alt-world, although hopefully as the regular personalities. In other words, when Jin and Sun wake up after drowning they'll be together in the alternate world... might be kind of awkward when they remember they have a child that no longer exists, but whatever. I really hope that's not the end for them...

I knew it was gonna get real but I can't believe they killed three original cast members (and Lapidus) in one swoop like that. It kind of blew my mind. I'm also getting annoyed, although not surprised, that no one aside from Desmond is mentioning the fact that everyone was on the plane together. Alterna Jack has now come into contact with Locke, Claire, Desmond, and Bernard. I would think especially after Claire he'd be like "wait a minute, this is getting weird now" and try to get some info. Nope.

Can't wait to see what happens next. Still kind of sad re: the massacre.


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

Also, there's NO way Hurley fit through that hole and swam all the way to shore carrying Kate, but that's for another time....


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

In my mind, tonight reinforced what I believe the true "end" will turn out to be.

There's no way that I believe they will let the beloved Jin and Sun, and even Sayid, die. While Kate is apparently not or no longer a candidate, I don't think she's a goner either. Although I do believe they are dead in the universe they are currently in...something is still going to happen that makes the flash sideways the one and only true reality. It seems kinda cliched, but I still think our key players are going to live happily ever after. Well, more or less.

I think we now know that Flocke's elongated trek to save the castaways was a ruse, and it seems like as long as there are no more candidates alive, he would be free to leave. But if he wanted them dead, he had ample opportunity to easily kill all of them. Especially if he had convinced them to get onto the plane (which seems ludicrious to think that it could ever fly, but I digress). So...if the plane was there...and the bomb was in the plane...who put the bomb there, and why didn't Flocke just lure them into the plane and blow them up? Why go through all the trickery to get them onto the sub, and then blow them up?


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## caslu (Jun 24, 2003)

So, does it matter who kills the canidates? If not, then why didn't Flocke let them all get blown up on the plane (since we know he really did find out Widmore had wired it with C4)? Or, maybe it's just that he needs the plane to get himself off the island once all the candidates are dead.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Wow!


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

I liked Lapidus' line...."Oh hell".


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

Is the fact that sawyer pulled teh wires out the reason the bomb was able to successfully detonate? These rules are very touchy. Flocke can't kill any of the candidates (so why not kill Claire and Kate when he had the chance in the temple), but they can apparently kill each other. So he plants a bomb on the sub and if left alone, it would have counted down to zero, the mysteriously not exploded it, but because one of the candidates messed with it, it was able to detonate? Seems kind of odd to me. 

Like you said, why not just let them blow up on the plane? Who knows. I also find it funny that his plan was to blow up the sub all along, but yet the only reason he wasn't on the sub himself was because Jack threw him in the water and they took off. I guess he would have backed off if not, but he was like three feet away from getting in. Seems kind of risky/convenient.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Oh and I liked Locke saying "I know you". I am positive that he was recognizing jack from the island and not alterna-world.

I liked how Claire and Jackl looked in the mirror of the box and they had no flash of the island time. Seems to confirm that you have to have a near death experience to see it. I think this also plays into the theory that the alterna world will end up being where everyones lives "happily ever after". Near death.....flash. Death on the Island....you get to go "back" to alterna world.

I also loved Jack's line of "I'm with him" while Smoky arrived.

Just wow. What a great ep.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

It sure does seem that Flocke needs the plane, so that's why he didn't blow it up.

And yeah, it does seem HE can't directly kill them but can get someone else to (loophole, remember Ben killing Jacob)

Jack spelled it out for us that if they let it run it would have done nothing.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

MikeMar said:


> Jack spelled it out for us that if they let it run it would have done nothing.


Exactly. Some people think waaaaaaayyyyyyy too hard about this show. I mean, it's not like this show has ever pulled a fast one on us. 

Also, I think Jack did notice the oddity of everyone being on the plane. But what's he going to say? "Oh my God, everyone I talked to this week was on that frackin' plane!"


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

I guess so much for the idea they can't kill themselves. At least if Sayid still counts as being on the list, he pretty much killed himself tonight. I guess it's more a function of when the island is done with you.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

All I thought about while Jin was refusing to leave Sun was "who's going to raise your kid?!?!?" That was kinda lame.


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

Gunnyman said:


> All I thought about while Jin was refusing to leave Sun was "who's going to raise your kid?!?!?" That was kinda lame.


I guess that was the reason for the dialog earlier in the episode, to remind us that the kid was being taken care of by Sun's Mom.

Oh yeah, I guess Jin basically killed himself too.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

Gunnyman said:


> All I thought about while Jin was refusing to leave Sun was "who's going to raise your kid?!?!?" That was kinda lame.


That's how I thought they were going to get Jin to abandon Sun, figured she would say something like go raise our daughter and he would reluctantly go. He did float away oooor was he pulled out of there?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

I thought Fox(x?) did a great job with Jack acting expressions of "and... YOU were on the flight, too.....", unlike some in this thread. He isn't Hurley, so he's not one to say "umm, dude, wasn't that like the same flight?" over and over.. He's trying to figure out what it means in his head..

And I think that had a lot to do with why he wouldn't leave the Locke thing alone.

I wish you believed me.

Now we know why he's in the wheelchair.. and why he doesn't want to get fixed (doesn't think he deserves it, because Cooper can't walk either).


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Just rewatched. They totally telegraphed the C4. As Jack and the group arrive at the sub dock, right after the flash sideways, Flocke takes off his pack and puts it behind jack, but beyond jack's pack.

Then when they get up to go, you clearly see Flocke reach for his pack and hand it to Jack.

Never would have picked it up on a first pass watching. 

Cool stuff.


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## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

Shakhari said:


> The four on the beach are the same four that Michael kidnapped for the Others ... I have no idea what that means.


And three that died are the ones who went after them..


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

I thought this episode was rather cheesy. Glad Flocke has the ability to instantaneously make a fail-safe bomb timer out of a random wristwatch.



jlb said:


> Never would have picked it up on a first pass watching.


Unfortunately I found that backpack thing to be painfully obvious. Flocke putting it on Jack was just too weird.


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## brermike (Jun 1, 2006)

Whoa, great episode. The end truly feels like it is coming fast now. Can't wait for next week!

I experienced about 23 different emotions over the course of that hour. Great stuff.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

I normally don't like Doc Jenson on EW but he posted some thoughts about the episode along with quotes from Lindelof, Yunjin Kim, and Daniel Dae Kim. Some good insight provided as far as how they made the choice to kill those three characters as well as doing it to establish the fact that Flocke is, without a doubt, the villian.

http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/05/04/lost-producers-actors-candidate/


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

The episode reminded me of season one with all the deaths. Wasn't there an episode that had a few of them in there? Or maybe it was just one or two a week for a few weeks.

I also realized right off that the backpack Jack was putting on had the c4 in it. I had wondered why Locke stopped to grab the guys watch, and it clicked in my head when Jack put the backpack on.

Jack seemed to be trying hard to figure it all out in the sidealterverse. I found Bernard to be a bit creepy and his last line was odd.

What a great show!


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

Test said:


> That's how I thought they were going to get Jin to abandon Sun, figured she would say something like go raise our daughter and he would reluctantly go. He did float away oooor was he pulled out of there?


Lol, that's what I said... It didn't even come in those final moments... I love that it was all about them dying together, etc, but damn...someone could have at least mentioned their child. I know the kid is with Sun's mother but is that really the same as being raised by your parents? Especially when Jin could have totally survived?

Still, I've always liked the two of them, and even though Sun got annoying over seasons 5 and 6, she still was the only one on the damn show that always had a clear, defined goal. I figured it would too good to be true when they were reunited last week and DIDN'T die instantly, now I know why.

Maybe I'm a loser but there is something about the core cast of characters finishing out this journey together that I really wanted it to work. Maybe it's cheesy but seeing them altogether made me want that to be the ending--them, together, against a common enemy. Taking three people out of that at once was a lot, although I'm sure it's not the end of any of those characters.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

And how crazy is Claire going to be now?


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## jpicard (Oct 26, 2004)

question... 
Where was Ben this episode?? When did we see him last anyway?? Is he dead too????


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

I broke down and watched this live in my hotel room in standard def, with no instant replay. I'm going to have to watch it again on Thursday to digest it all. I missed that Lapidus bought it also. How did Flocke know that they weren't all dead? Was it because he wasn't free to leave?

I don't buy that Flocke needs a plane. If he defeated Jacob a hundred years ago, what would he have done?


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Philosofy said:


> I missed that Lapidus bought it also. How did Flocke know that they weren't all dead? Was it because he wasn't free to leave?


I'm thinking Flocke just knows when this group is dead or not dead. However, he could have easily turned into smokey and witnessed the whole thing, right? Even if smokey can't go under water he could have just hung out and witnessed who survived. Then just returned to Claire to answer the question.

And perhaps he pulled Jin out there at the end...

Lapidus is most likely dead, but there's a chance he's not. I'd say 95% dead, and they really should have him be dead. Big metal door drilled him. But then again, real Locke got drilled by a big metal car.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

I gotta say, though. At some point in this crazy adventure with time shifts and friends dieing and all the nuttiness you might just be ready to check out -- I'm a bit surprised more than just Sayid didn't jump on the grenade. I kinda thought Jack might do it.


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## jpicard (Oct 26, 2004)

Locke saying that he is going to finish the job is not that he knows that the 4 are left but rather that he is going back to finish off Widmore and Co. 
I don't think Locke knows yet that Jack, Sawyer, Hurley, and Kate are still alive.


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## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

jpicard said:


> Locke saying that he is going to finish the job is not that he knows that the 4 are left but rather that he is going back to finish off Widmore and Co.
> I don't think Locke knows yet that Jack, Sawyer, Hurley, and Kate are still alive.


didn't claire ask if all of the were dead and Flocke replied "not all of them?"


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## fliptheflop (Sep 20, 2005)

AstroDad said:


> didn't claire ask if all of the were dead and Flocke replied "not all of them?"


Yes I think he would have been able to "leave" if they all had died. So he knew some made it.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

When Sun and Jin were in the sinking sub, I was thinking that it would hit the underwater Dharma station where Charlie died, and they would somehow make it out to there.


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## net114 (Dec 29, 2000)

I guess at some point I'm going to have to go back and watch the last 3 seasons. The long delays for new episodes and the constant non-answering of story questions "lost" me. But eventually I will go back and watch them all in marathon style.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Paperboy2003 said:


> It's officially in the home stretch....
> 
> sad to see Sun, Jin, and Lapidus go (not so sad about the 'new' Sayid)
> 
> Of course there's no WAY anyone would survive four sticks of C4 in an enclosed tube, but that's for another time


Sayid didn't. 


Sun?
Jin?
Sayid?
Frank?

Wow, very sad that Jin will never meet his daughter.

I have to agree that the loop is closing up now but I have to say that I can't exactly see where it's going.
Still a wild ride though.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

jpicard said:


> question...
> Where was Ben this episode?? When did we see him last anyway?? Is he dead too????


We last saw Ben when Jack's group split; Miles, Richard and Ben were going to the barracks to get more explosives to blow up the plane - and I suspect they are the ones that planted the C4 on the plane...


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

latrobe7 said:


> We last saw Ben when Jack's group split; Miles, Richard and Ben were going to the barracks to get more explosives to blow up the plane - and I suspect they are the ones that planted the C4 on the plane...


If they had C4 where did they get it?
They had to go to the Black Rock to get dynamite.

I have been wondering for the past couple of weeks whether or not Claire is a mole for Jacob.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

What an episode. I don't want this series to end.


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## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

What happened to Ben?


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

There's just no way any parent in Sun's position wouldn't be screaming at Jin to get out to raise their daughter. And Jin, if he truely loved Sun, would abide by her wishes and save himself so he could care for her. 

All I could think about was here are two pretty selfish people. That's not a good end for them. I thought it was going to be great (if not really sad) that Jin had to leave Sun. But to stay with her was total crap.

Guess Sawyer can't beat up Jack about getting Juliet killed now. He four-upped him!


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

caslu said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like next week we finally get back stories for Jacob and the man in black (and I'm starting to believe the theory that says they're different halves of the same person).


Um, I'm pretty sure all those clips were from past episodes. That doesn't mean we WON'T see more back story but the previews didn't seem to show any.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Bryanmc said:


> There's just no way any parent in Sun's position wouldn't be screaming at Jin to get out to raise their daughter. And Jin, if he truely loved Sun, would abide by her wishes and save himself so he could care for her.
> 
> All I could think about was here are two pretty selfish people. That's not a good end for them. I thought it was going to be great (if not really sad) that Jin had to leave Sun. But to stay with her was total crap.


Yeah... felt weird. Do the writers have kids? I have to wonder, because I don't know any parent that would rather die together than save one of them for their child.

Then again, Jin had never seen their child. He might not be thinking like a father.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

brianp6621 said:


> Um, I'm pretty sure all those clips were from past episodes. That doesn't mean we WON'T see more back story but the previews didn't seem to show any.


Of course it didn't show any new material. But they're implying that this is the one. It's gonna be quite a ride.

Greg


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## desulliv (Aug 22, 2003)

Kate seems to have recovered from her gunshot wound rather quickly and well.


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

Philosofy said:


> I don't buy that Flocke needs a plane. If he defeated Jacob a hundred years ago, what would he have done?





uncdrew said:


> Lapidus is most likely dead, but there's a chance he's not. I'd say 95% dead, and they really should have him be dead. Big metal door drilled him. But then again, real Locke got drilled by a big metal car.


Well, if Lapidus is dead, then who's going to fly the plane? One of you is on to something, that's for sure!


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## Crobinzine (Dec 29, 2005)

appleye1 said:


> Well, if Lapidus is dead, then who's going to fly the plane? One of you is on to something, that's for sure!


I think FLOCKE could probably fly the plane himself. He somehow magically knows how to rig a makeshift timebomb with a digital watch. Pretty impressive for a enity that has been trapped on an island for over a centaury.


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## mmilton80 (Jul 28, 2005)

Crobinzine said:


> I think FLOCKE could probably fly the plane himself. He somehow magically knows how to rig a makeshift timebomb with a digital watch. Pretty impressive for a enity that has been trapped on an island for over a centuary.


He also can turn into smoke and fly.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Not only can't bullets kill Locke, they can't hurt his shirt either. Locke's body count is approaching Jack Bauer's. 

Lost can be like a bad kung fu movie. There's a seemingly unending supply of henchmen. Just how many rifle toting, redshirt snipers came on Widmore's sub? 

Sad to see Jin, Sun, Sayid and Frank go.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

If you haven't heard the good news, the finale has been extended 30 minutes to add more material. Two and a half hours now.


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## caslu (Jun 24, 2003)

JYoung said:


> If they had C4 where did they get it?
> They had to go to the Black Rock to get dynamite.
> 
> I have been wondering for the past couple of weeks whether or not Claire is a mole for Jacob.


There's no more Black Rock and hence, no more dynamite. If Richard/Ben/Miles was the group that planted the C4, that would explain why Flocke had to use an alternate plan... he probably has to be the one that kills the candidates.


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## Carlucci (Jan 10, 2001)

What were the exact words that Sayid said to Jack right before the b'uh (no, a bomb) went off?


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## Crobinzine (Dec 29, 2005)

mmilton80 said:


> He also can turn into smoke and fly.


But not over water?


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Fool Me Twice said:


> If you haven't heard the good news, the finale has been extended 30 minutes to add more material. Two and a half hours now.


Seriously? Holy smokes!

So now it's two hours of "pre-show" then a 2.5 hour finale, then the one-hour Jimmy Kimmel "LOST: After the Final Rose" thing? Or is the pre-show/Kimmel getting shaved by a half-hour?


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

cheesesteak said:


> Not only can't bullets kill Locke, they can't hurt his shirt either.


I just assumed his shirt was smoke. Or is there a pile of clothing left hanging around when he ensmokifies?


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

MickeS said:


> Yeah... felt weird. Do the writers have kids? I have to wonder, because I don't know any parent that would rather die together than save one of them for their child.
> 
> Then again, Jin had never seen their child. He might not be thinking like a father.


I'm not even a parent and I was wondering about that. It was all sweet and romantic, but.....

I mean even Michael went to Australia to be with the son he never knew when the mom died.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

So I guess the next episdoe the Losties go after Desmond. I suppose we'll see Richard, Miles, and Ben make a reappearance. They'll probably be dead in two weeks.  Does anyone think Widmore can be trusted at this point?


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

betts4 said:


> I'm not even a parent and I was wondering about that. It was all sweet and romantic, but.....
> 
> I mean even Michael went to Australia to be with the son he never knew when the mom died.


No worries....Sun and Jin will all be with their yet to be born daughter in the alternate universe and they'll live happily ever after. Heck you even saw Jin with the flowers for Sun after they died!


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

mrdazzo7 said:


> I seriously can't believe they just killed Jin and Sun like that--didn't see it coming at all. Although I'm sure that's not the end of them--something tells me the people who died will live on in the alt-world, although hopefully as the regular personalities. In other words, when Jin and Sun wake up after drowning they'll be together in the alternate world... might be kind of awkward when they remember they have a child that no longer exists, but whatever. I really hope that's not the end for them...


..dunno, as soon as Jack and Sawyer left Jin and Sun alone in the sub they started up the sad melancholy musical cue they use when someone usually dies, at that point I called it as "they won't make it"


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

If a doctor like Jack was that nosey in my personal business I would have called the cops and told him to back the F off.


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## PVRMEASAP (Jun 11, 2005)

Fool Me Twice said:


> If you haven't heard the good news, the finale has been extended 30 minutes to add more material. Two and a half hours now.


And by "material" you mean commercials.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

PVRMEASAP said:


> And by "material" you mean commercials.


Hahahaha, yeah probably 

I haven't seen them mention that they are extending the finale. I will have to look for confirmation on that


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## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

Wow what a crazy episode....when they were killing of Sun and Jin my wife keep saying *"NO!! NO!!"* LOL!

What a crazy/fun ride it's been...I too have no idea where this is all leading but I'm soaking in every last drop of fun until the very end.


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## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

I still don't understand why Widmore won't just take five minutes and honestly explain the situation to the losties. If his intentions are honorable (who knows) then there should be no problem being honest. But no, he'd rather lock them up and keep them in the dark.

I still have no idea where this is going but I'm fairly certain that Desmond is the key.


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## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

The craziest part of this episode to me was that Jack was able to push Fake Locke into the water.

That says to me that the smoke powers may be useless against the "candidates". Could lead to some pretty cool Flocke/Jack/Sawyer fights.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

JYoung said:


> If they had C4 where did they get it?
> They had to go to the Black Rock to get dynamite.


I don't know; pallet drop?

But after Illana blew up, Richard asked Ben if the were any grenades or explosives at the barracks, and Ben said he thought there were. Makes me wonder why they didn't go for those first, instead of the crusty-old dynamite; but whatever.

Maybe they didn't plant the C4 - because if they did, why hadn't they set it off? I just made the connection since that what they said they were going to do. But I bet that if Ben, Miles and Richard didn't set the explosives, they will be showing up there soon. I wonder what their purpose is...?

Speaking of seemingly pointless, I'm feeling disappointed this morning about Jin, Sun and Lapidus. They strung out the Jin/Sun thin for this long just to kill them off like that? And I guess Lapidus was only there to make it look as if they were going to use the plane.

On the positive side I got goosebumps when Jack told John " I wish you had believed me."


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Fool Me Twice said:


> If you haven't heard the good news, the finale has been extended 30 minutes to add more material. Two and a half hours now.


I think you mean to add 30 minutes of commercials.
Man the commercial breaks on LOST are almost as long as the show.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Cainebj said:


> I think you mean to add 30 minutes of commercials.
> Man the commercial breaks on LOST are almost as long as the show.


Are we not on a DVR forum? Why is everyone so afraid of more commercial breaks. I say let your show build a lead time and then start watching. If they say they are adding extra material, I don't car if it is just one extra minute or if it is 20, any extra material is fine by me.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Cainebj said:


> I think you mean to add 30 minutes of commercials.
> Man the commercial breaks on LOST are almost as long as the show.


Commericals? Guys, I thought was all have Tivos/DVRs?

I delay things 20 minutes and start watching. But, the finale, I may just watch "live"

Or what Shaunnick said 

Anyone planning on having a Lost finale party?


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## SugarBowl (Jan 5, 2007)

"just get smokey in the water, i'll take care of the rest" - That was some plan. 

Wasn't the bomb beeping with every tick when they removed it from the backpack? 

Why didn't they send smokey in first when they were attacking the sub? 

Why did sayid suddenly stop being a zombie when the bomb was found ?

"there's no way i'm going back in these cages." 
"What if we kill Kate? " 
"ok"


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## d-dub (Mar 8, 2005)

Paperboy2003 said:


> Also, there's NO way Hurley fit through that hole and swam all the way to shore carrying Kate, but that's for another time....


Actually, there's no way anyone made it out that hole while water was rushing in. They would have had to wait until the sub hit bottom and was completely filled with water before it would have been possible to exit that way.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

SugarBowl said:


> Why did sayid suddenly stop being a zombie when the bomb was found ?


I think he stopped being a zombie last episode when he saved Desmond. Although we didn't see exactly what happened, it was strongly projected that Sayid was redeemed then.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

SugarBowl said:


> "just get smokey in the water, i'll take care of the rest" - That was some plan.
> Wasn't the bomb beeping with every tick when they removed it from the backpack?
> Why didn't they send smokey in first when they were attacking the sub?
> Why did sayid suddenly stop being a zombie when the bomb was found ?
> ...


HAHAHAH on that last part.. "ok..."

As for the rest, I see where you're coming from. I'm ok with it because at this point, whatever, but the plans on both sides relied on a hell of a lot of faith. How did Sawyer know Locke wouldn't just storm the sub (which would have made more sense), and how did Locke know that Sawyer would just happen to ask him to stay in the back? And what was his plan if Jack hadn't thrown him in the water, since he was steps away from getting on the sub.

I was also wondering what Jack was thinking because he's betraying the smoke monster, yet plans on staying on the island with it. Not to bright, but then I remembered that he can't kill them so it's all good.

I thought based on Richard's demonstration that the candidates can't die at all, not just if it was at Locke's hands or not. But I guess they can kill each other. Anyone remember which of the original castaways were on the wall but crossed out? I'm still wondering why Kate is crossed out if she's not dead. Was she crossed out on the cave wall but not the lighthouse wheel?

My head hurts.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

Steveknj said:


> Anyone planning on having a Lost finale party?


This is my dilemma right now. My friend is having people over to watch it but I don't think I want to go--this particular group doesn't know how to be quiet and unfortunately one of my biggest pet peeves is people talking non stop when I'm trying to watch something. And seeing as how I've waited six years to see this episode, I really just want to watch it on my nice flat screen/surround sound set up without worrying about people having a party around me.

Is that lame? Anyone else on the same page?


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## tgrim1 (Sep 11, 2006)

It seemed to me that since Jack believed that Flocke couldnt kill them (the candidates) and he already proved that he couldnt kill himself, he should have been the person mucking around with the bomb. Hell, he could have just started dismantling the thing right there.


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## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> Commericals? Guys, I thought was all have Tivos/DVRs?
> 
> I delay things 20 minutes and start watching. But, the finale, I may just watch "live"
> 
> ...


No way I'd want to go to one!...it's pretty much a given that if you have a bunch of folks sitting watching a show like this they will be chatting things up too much to enjoy it....I want to see it at home in peace and quiet then happily discuss it the next day.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Again, Jack called it last night. If they had left it alone, the bomb would not have gone off. Like Jack said though, they can kill each other. The minute Sawyer tampered with the bomb he jeopardized everyone on the sub but himself. He can't kill himself because he is a candidate. Somehow fate would conspire to save Sawyer. And it did. Going forward the survivors will have to be weary not of the smoke monster (not directly, anyway) but of anyone else he might weasel into doing his dirty work, including the other candidates.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

DancnDude said:


> I think he stopped being a zombie last episode when he saved Desmond. Although we didn't see exactly what happened, it was strongly projected that Sayid was redeemed then.


This.



tgrim1 said:


> It seemed to me that since Jack believed that Flocke couldnt kill them (the candidates) and he already proved that he couldnt kill himself, he should have been the person mucking around with the bomb. Hell, he could have just started dismantling the thing right there.


I think Jack was being Doctorman and was helping Kate. Sawyer grabbed the bomb after Sayid looked at it and told him what needed to be done. Then he wouldn't give it up/or stop when Jack told him to.

All of them on the beach crying for Sun and Jin was more powerful to me than the actual death scene of them. I felt like the end really is, finally, nearing. That's why I cried.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

It was annoying to me that Jack used his portable air to swim out with Sawyer, but Sawyer was passed out and didn't have an air device. I'm pretty sure people who are passed out still breathe. So Sawyer would have drowned. 

But there's been worse. I'll just chalk that one up to Sawyer not being able to kill himself. If they went through the trouble of even having portable air, they should have had enough for everybody who needed one to get out


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## sshedlock (May 14, 2004)

Steveknj said:


> Anyone planning on having a Lost finale party?


I'm going to be in Vegas on that Sunday, so I am sure I will find a good one.


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## mmilton80 (Jul 28, 2005)

Alfer said:


> No way I'd want to go to one!...it's pretty much a given that if you have a bunch of folks sitting watching a show like this they will be chatting things up too much to enjoy it....I want to see it at home in peace and quiet then happily discuss it the next day.


I am debating this too. I watch LOST with my wife who likes to discuss connections during the show (thank god for TiVo and the pause). I cannot imagine watching with more people!


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## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

Shaunnick said:


> Again, Jack called it last night. If they had left it alone, the bomb would not have gone off. Like Jack said though, they can kill each other. The minute Sawyer tampered with the bomb he jeopardized everyone on the sub but himself. He can't kill himself because he is a candidate. Somehow fate would conspire to save Sawyer. And it did. Going forward the survivors will have to be weary not of the smoke monster (not directly, anyway) but of anyone else he might weasel into doing his dirty work, including the other candidates.


Jack might not have died, but everyone else could have if he had tampered with it.

However, if all of them left it alone, I still think Kate, Sayid, one of the Kwons, and Lapidus still could have died since none of them are candidates.


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## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

mrdazzo7 said:


> As for the rest, I see where you're coming from. I'm ok with it because at this point, whatever, but the plans on both sides relied on a hell of a lot of faith. How did Sawyer know Locke wouldn't just storm the sub (which would have made more sense), and how did Locke know that Sawyer would just happen to ask him to stay in the back? And what was his plan if Jack hadn't thrown him in the water, since he was steps away from getting on the sub.


That was all Locke's plan. If Jack didn't throw him into the water, he would have stayed back anyway. Jack called it - Locke wanted them all to get into the sub, and wanted the bomb to go off (he knew Sawyer or Sayid would likely make the bomb go off). If he and everyone got on the plane, then he possible would have died (plane blows up over water), so that wasn't an option. He needed them to be separate from him, so they could all die.



> I thought based on Richard's demonstration that the candidates can't die at all, not just if it was at Locke's hands or not. But I guess they can kill each other. Anyone remember which of the original castaways were on the wall but crossed out? I'm still wondering why Kate is crossed out if she's not dead. Was she crossed out on the cave wall but not the lighthouse wheel?


I think Richard's demo showed that Jack couldn't kill himself, not that they couldn't die at all. Jack lit the fuse, which is why the fuse burned out. He couldn't kill himself. If Jack had walked out of there, Richard would have been able to die. So, yes, they can kill one another. Sawyer screwing around with the bomb meant someone could die. If they had all just stood there, the bomb probably wouldn't have gone off (following the Richard example). But, Sayid took off with it, which allowed him to die, and caused the sub to breech, which allowed others to die as well.

People were crossed out on that wall without having died. Death is not necessarily a reason to be crossed out. And you are right - she was crossed off on the wall, but not in the lighthouse.



mrdazzo7 said:


> This is my dilemma right now. My friend is having people over to watch it but I don't think I want to go--this particular group doesn't know how to be quiet and unfortunately one of my biggest pet peeves is people talking non stop when I'm trying to watch something. And seeing as how I've waited six years to see this episode, I really just want to watch it on my nice flat screen/surround sound set up without worrying about people having a party around me.
> 
> Is that lame? Anyone else on the same page?


I'm with you. While I think it'd be fun to go to one of those parties (like the Jay and Jack one in Hollywood), it'd annoy me to no end. I want to watch the finale in peace, with my wife and the DVR remote in hand and a bowl of popcorn, and take it all in. I don't want 2, 10, 100, or 1000 other people gasping and crying around me.



DancnDude said:


> It was annoying to me that Jack used his portable air to swim out with Sawyer, but Sawyer was passed out and didn't have an air device. I'm pretty sure people who are passed out still breathe. So Sawyer would have drowned.
> 
> But there's been worse. I'll just chalk that one up to Sawyer not being able to kill himself. If they went through the trouble of even having portable air, they should have had enough for everybody who needed one to get out


Jack handed one of the two portable air devices to Hurley, and told him to buddy breath to get Kate to the surface. I'd assume he'd do the same for Sawyer, too.


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

mrdazzo7 said:


> This is my dilemma right now. My friend is having people over to watch it but I don't think I want to go--this particular group doesn't know how to be quiet and unfortunately one of my biggest pet peeves is people talking non stop when I'm trying to watch something. And seeing as how I've waited six years to see this episode, I really just want to watch it on my nice flat screen/surround sound set up without worrying about people having a party around me.
> 
> Is that lame? Anyone else on the same page?


I know people who are actually planning on going to a bar to watch the finale. Now that's lame!


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

mrdazzo7 said:


> This is my dilemma right now. My friend is having people over to watch it but I don't think I want to go--this particular group doesn't know how to be quiet and unfortunately one of my biggest pet peeves is people talking non stop when I'm trying to watch something. And seeing as how I've waited six years to see this episode, I really just want to watch it on my nice flat screen/surround sound set up without worrying about people having a party around me.
> 
> Is that lame? Anyone else on the same page?


:up: :up: :up:

same page


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## DavidJL (Feb 21, 2006)

cheesesteak said:


> Not only can't bullets kill Locke, they can't hurt his shirt either.


Not that it matters much in the whole scheme of things, but I believe when Sayid stabbed Locke after receiving the dagger from Dogen, it did leave a whole in his shirt.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Bryanmc said:


> Guess Sawyer can't beat up Jack about getting Juliet killed now. He four-upped him!


Yeah, I was expecting a witty type of "Ooops" comment from Sawyer when the watch started again. 

No way he was going to believe Jack. Heck, I almost didn't.


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## thenightfly42 (Mar 5, 2002)

jking said:


> Oh yeah, I guess Jin basically killed himself too.


Which would indicate that Sun was the Candidate? Not that it matters anymore.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

MickeS said:


> Yeah... felt weird. Do the writers have kids? I have to wonder, because I don't know any parent that would rather die together than save one of them for their child.
> 
> Then again, Jin had never seen their child. He might not be thinking like a father.


...and getting out of that sub certainly doesn't mean getting back to their kid. These people know they're @#$!ed with a capital F.

They're not getting off.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

mrdazzo7 said:


> This is my dilemma right now. My friend is having people over to watch it but I don't think I want to go--this particular group doesn't know how to be quiet and unfortunately one of my biggest pet peeves is people talking non stop when I'm trying to watch something. And seeing as how I've waited six years to see this episode, I really just want to watch it on my nice flat screen/surround sound set up without worrying about people having a party around me.
> 
> Is that lame? Anyone else on the same page?


Depends on if the others there are just coming for the social aspect, or to actually watch the show.  I'm with you though, I'd rather watch it home alone...


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

mrdazzo7 said:


> This is my dilemma right now. My friend is having people over to watch it but I don't think I want to go--this particular group doesn't know how to be quiet and unfortunately one of my biggest pet peeves is people talking non stop when I'm trying to watch something. And seeing as how I've waited six years to see this episode, I really just want to watch it on my nice flat screen/surround sound set up without worrying about people having a party around me.
> 
> Is that lame? Anyone else on the same page?


Totally on the same page. I am a little torn, though - while I don't want the distractions of other people, I do feel like this is the type of event that would warrant it. Kind of like watching the ball drop on New Year's Eve at home on TV versus being there live in Times Square. Ultimately, for practical reasons, I prefer the former. Yet each year I also kind of envy the people that do the latter.

I remember watching the Cheers finale with a large group, while in college. I remember watching the Seinfeld finale with a group of strangers - we had moved into our new house that day and didn't have our cable hookup yet. Watched it on the clubhouse TV and made new friends.

Maybe I'll split the difference by watching it live and participating in a live viewing thread (here, or on the Fuselage, or something like that). If it gets too distracting, I can just look away from the forum.



DancnDude said:


> It was annoying to me that Jack used his portable air to swim out with Sawyer, but Sawyer was passed out and didn't have an air device. I'm pretty sure people who are passed out still breathe. So Sawyer would have drowned.


I could have mis-seen it, but I think that while Jack was swimming up and out with Sawyer he was holding the portable O2 to Sawyer's face, not his own.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

SugarBowl said:


> "just get smokey in the water, i'll take care of the rest" - That was some plan.
> 
> Wasn't the bomb beeping with every tick when they removed it from the backpack?
> 
> ...


Yeah, Sawyer's "Get Smokey in the water" plan was strange. I expected Jack to run into the sub and yell "Sawyer, he's in the water" and then Sawyer would do something.

What was that all about?


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

mrdazzo7 said:


> This is my dilemma right now. My friend is having people over to watch it but I don't think I want to go--this particular group doesn't know how to be quiet and unfortunately one of my biggest pet peeves is people talking non stop when I'm trying to watch something. And seeing as how I've waited six years to see this episode, I really just want to watch it on my nice flat screen/surround sound set up without worrying about people having a party around me.
> 
> Is that lame? Anyone else on the same page?


I watch alone.

The C4 had to come from Widmore. Had to.

If it had been something that Ben knew about all this time, there were dozens of events in which he would have used it. The thought of saving it for something better is crazy.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

SugarBowl said:


> "just get smokey in the water, i'll take care of the rest" - That was some plan.


Sounds like the usual Sawyer plan. 



SugarBowl said:


> Why didn't they send smokey in first when they were attacking the sub?


I was wondering the same, until they showed that he had no intention of getting on the boat. Smokey didn't want to, obviously, and I don't know it would have helped much anyway.


SugarBowl said:


> Why did sayid suddenly stop being a zombie when the bomb was found ?


To me, it seemed like he stopped being a zombie after talking to Desmond. When he came back after that, he was changed, but kept playing the part to fool fake Locke. That's what it seemed like to me at least.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

I think Sawyer had inferred from his earlier discussion with fLocke that fLocke cannot change into smoke form in or over the water. So he probably figured if Jack could get him into the water that he would not be able to turn to smoke and attack everyone getting into the sub.


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## mmilton80 (Jul 28, 2005)

uncdrew said:


> I watch alone.


And when I watch alone, I prefer to be myself.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

Here is my thinking. 

We are in this flash sideways. And it seems that when people die they wake up to this real world sideways thing or something of that nature. (Juliet saying it worked etc...)
What if Flocke is just the previous round of losties and learned they need to die to make this happen for them to wake up and have thier lives go back to normal but they can't kill themselves. Not sure how it all would work but something along those lines seems to be my guess for now.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Alpinemaps said:


> That was all Locke's plan. If Jack didn't throw him into the water, he would have stayed back anyway. Jack called it - Locke wanted them all to get into the sub, and wanted the bomb to go off (he knew Sawyer or Sayid would likely make the bomb go off). If he and everyone got on the plane, then he possible would have died (plane blows up over water), so that wasn't an option. He needed them to be separate from him, so they could all die.


But why put the bomb in Jack's pack? Jack said twice that he was not going. Why would Locke assume that Jack's pack would even be on the sub for a few minutes, let alone remain on the sub once it submerged?

Maybe Locke had two plans, either of which would satisfy him? If all the living candidates leave, then Locke could leave. So if Jack stayed, Locke needed to kill Jack with the bomb. If Jack left, then Locke would simply not get on the sub and the bomb could kill all the candidates, leaving Locke free to leave.

Maybe that also explains why Locke did not let them get on the plane and be blown up by the C4. Jack would not have been on the plane, and Jack would then be the only remaining candidate, but Jack cannot kill himself and Locke cannot kill Jack, so then Locke would be stuck on the island forever.

Except that this is all rather complicated and hard to believe. It would seem easier for Locke to arrange for Jack and the other candidates to be on the plane when the electrical systems are turned on, perhaps for a test, not the actual departure.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

mrdazzo7 said:


> This is my dilemma right now. My friend is having people over to watch it but I don't think I want to go--this particular group doesn't know how to be quiet and unfortunately one of my biggest pet peeves is people talking non stop when I'm trying to watch something. And seeing as how I've waited six years to see this episode, I really just want to watch it on my nice flat screen/surround sound set up without worrying about people having a party around me.
> 
> Is that lame? Anyone else on the same page?


I was thinking the same thing, but, if someone is having a party, I'd probably go, and I'm sure I'm going to rewatch this any number of times anyway, so it will all be good. Same it's not the Sunday before Memorial Day, because I could REALLY stay up and watch it over and over


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

tgrim1 said:


> It seemed to me that since Jack believed that Flocke couldnt kill them (the candidates) and he already proved that he couldnt kill himself, he should have been the person mucking around with the bomb. Hell, he could have just started dismantling the thing right there.


Did Jack every say "He can't kill us because we are candidates" or did he just say, "let it go, nothing will happen?"

I'm sure I'm overthinkng this, but why wouldn't Jack, once he realized the whole candidate thing call a meeting behind MIB back and tell his friends about it?


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## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

john4200 said:


> But why put the bomb in Jack's pack? Jack said twice that he was not going. Why would Locke assume that Jack's pack would even be on the sub for a few minutes, let alone remain on the sub once it submerged?


Had Kate been shot yet, at the point that Locke gave him his pack? If so, then he knew Jack would go into the sub to save Kate.

If not, then the alternative plan might have been to go to the sub, and at the last second (as the last one that would have gotten into the sub), he could have thrown the pack down the hatch, and closed it up.

I think, though, that Locke knew that there was a plan against him, and that Jack would be doing something to him.


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## rimler (Jun 30, 2002)

I love this show and I'm enjoying the final season. One of the things that frustrates me is how quickly the characters (and storylines) do a 180 degree turn. After the Flocke double cross, murdering Jin and Sun, Sayid, and (presumably) Lapidus, and the heartbreaking grieving of Hurley, Kate, and Jack on the beach, I half expect Flocke to show up next week, speak one line, and convince the three to join him again. That would....aggravate...me.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

danplaysbass said:


> I still don't understand why Widmore won't just take five minutes and honestly explain the situation to the losties. If his intentions are honorable (who knows) then there should be no problem being honest. But no, he'd rather lock them up and keep them in the dark.


As much as I try to give up wondering why nobody never explains nothing to nobody on this show, I just can't. I guess I'm defective that way. It's driven me nuts since the Others were introduced. The Others. The Tailies. The Temple people. Widmore's people and whatever other factions I forgot. Everybody points rifles at and threatens to kill our heroes but nobody ever tells them why they're being messed with until about 27 episodes later.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

sshedlock said:


> I'm going to be in Vegas on that Sunday, so I am sure I will find a good one.


Hmmm Vegas...I wonder if you can bet on the outcome


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Alpinemaps said:


> Had Kate been shot yet, at the point that Locke gave him his pack? If so, then he knew Jack would go into the sub to save Kate.
> 
> If not, then the alternative plan might have been to go to the sub, and at the last second (as the last one that would have gotten into the sub), he could have thrown the pack down the hatch, and closed it up.


No, Kate was not shot yet when Locke handed Jack the bomb.

And the alternative plan you mention does not hold water. If all the candidates except Jack get blown up on the sub, how can Locke finish off Jack?


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

cheesesteak said:


> As much as I try to give up wondering why nobody never explains nothing to nobody on this show, I just can't. I guess I'm defective that way. It's driven me nuts since the Others were introduced. The Others. The Tailies. The Temple people. Widmore's people and whatever other factions I forgot. Everybody points rifles at and threatens to kill our heroes but nobody ever tells them why they're being messed with until about 27 episodes later.


I agree, that bothers me too. Also, I wonder why none of the main characters ever get fed up and just start killing all the jerks pointing guns at them. If Sawyer was fast enough to take the gun from dough boy, there is a good chance he would be fast enough to spin and shoot Widmore before Widmore can shoot Kate. Kill the bastard! Instead, Sawyer gives the gun back and just accepts it when dough boy whacks him one in the gut. What a wimp!


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

uncdrew said:


> I watch alone.
> 
> The C4 had to come from Widmore. Had to.
> 
> If it had been something that Ben knew about all this time, there were dozens of events in which he would have used it. The thought of saving it for something better is crazy.


This. How would Ben (who Widmore has already tried to kill once) or any of the others get close enough to the plane without Widmore's henchmen killing them?


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## Supfreak26 (Dec 12, 2003)

Anyone take notice when one of the losties says "What happened, happened" in the sideways-flashback? It was either Locke or Jack. Can't remember. 

Loved this episode but I hated seeing Jin and Sun go. The crying scene on the beach was heartwrenching. 

So happy and sad that this show is coming to an end.


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## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

Anybody on the board know just how much damage 4 blocks of C4 would do? That was a pretty small sub and since it is pressurized...well I would have expected more than just a little hole in the side.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

TiVotion said:


> I think we now know that Flocke's elongated trek to save the castaways was a ruse, and it seems like as long as there are no more candidates alive, he would be free to leave. But if he wanted them dead, he had ample opportunity to easily kill all of them. Especially if he had convinced them to get onto the plane (which seems ludicrious to think that it could ever fly, but I digress). So...if the plane was there...and the bomb was in the plane...who put the bomb there, and why didn't Flocke just lure them into the plane and blow them up? Why go through all the trickery to get them onto the sub, and then blow them up?


Locke can't kill them. They have to do it themselves.


betts4 said:


> Jack seemed to be trying hard to figure it all out in the sidealterverse. I found Bernard to be a bit creepy and his last line was odd.


Wasn't Bernard's last line, "I hope you find what you're looking for"? If so, hasn't that line played a part in the show previously? 


latrobe7 said:


> We last saw Ben when Jack's group split; Miles, Richard and Ben were going to the barracks to get more explosives to blow up the plane - and I suspect they are the ones that planted the C4 on the plane...


Nope. Ben and Richard want to destroy the plane. No way they'd wire it up to explode when the power is turned on and leave it there as a booby trap. They don't want to kill people. They just want to prevent Smokey from leaving the Island on the plane.


brianp6621 said:


> Um, I'm pretty sure all those clips were from past episodes. That doesn't mean we WON'T see more back story but the previews didn't seem to show any.


In the preview


Spoiler



there was a scene where Locke's scar above and below his eye is fresh. Have we ever seen that before? I'm thinking we might find out what caused that scar.





caslu said:


> There's no more Black Rock and hence, no more dynamite. If Richard/Ben/Miles was the group that planted the C4, that would explain why Flocke had to use an alternate plan... he probably has to be the one that kills the candidates.


No, Flocke specifically CAN'T kill the candidates. That's what this whole episode was about.


Carlucci said:


> What were the exact words that Sayid said to Jack right before the b'uh (no, a bomb) went off?


He explained to Jack that Desmond was in the well and where to find him. He then told Jack that Jack was the one (meaning he's THE candidate).


mrdazzo7 said:


> This is my dilemma right now. My friend is having people over to watch it but I don't think I want to go--this particular group doesn't know how to be quiet and unfortunately one of my biggest pet peeves is people talking non stop when I'm trying to watch something. And seeing as how I've waited six years to see this episode, I really just want to watch it on my nice flat screen/surround sound set up without worrying about people having a party around me.
> 
> Is that lame? Anyone else on the same page?


Not lame at all. I can't imagine trying to pay attention to the details when there are several other people around talking and reacting.


DavidJL said:


> Not that it matters much in the whole scheme of things, but I believe when Sayid stabbed Locke after receiving the dagger from Dogen, it did leave a *whole* in his shirt.


Better than leaving a half in his shirt. 

But seriously, the hole from Sayid's dagger was there for several weeks after that, but I haven't seen it lately. I was looking for bullet holes in this episode when Widmore's crew was shooting at him, and his shirt seemed to be completely intact.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

One thing about this whole Jacob vs. MIB thing bothers me. I am assuming that Jabob and MIB are playing by the same rules. They can't kill each other, and the candidates can't kill either of them (assuming they would have reason to kill Jacob). We've already established, with Ben killing Jacob, that a NON-candidate can kill him. If the rules are the same, couldn't a non-candidate kill MIB? If that's the case, why couldn't Flock be killed by the shooters last night? Why wouldn't Jack, who seems to understand the game, have someone like Lepidus kill MIB and be done with it? Why does MIB have this power but Jacob apparently didn't? Hopefully that is explained (or maybe it already HAS been explained, and I missed it.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Supfreak26 said:


> Anyone take notice when one of the losties says "What happened, happened" in the sideways-flashback? It was either Locke or Jack. Can't remember.


It was Jack, when he was telling Locke to get over the fact that his mistake caused his father to be a vegetable.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

mmilton80 said:


> And when I watch alone, I prefer to be myself.




Yes.

Kids asleep, wife in the other room, dogs outside. :up:


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

By the way, here's confirmation of the extra 30 minutes in the finale:

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2010/05/04/found-30-minutes-more-lost-added-to-series-finale/50585

It's going to add an extra 30 minutes to the back end of the episode, pushing back local newscasts and pushing back the Jimmy Kimmel Live special.


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## TheDewAddict (Aug 21, 2002)

mrdazzo7 said:


> This is my dilemma right now. My friend is having people over to watch it but I don't think I want to go--this particular group doesn't know how to be quiet and unfortunately one of my biggest pet peeves is people talking non stop when I'm trying to watch something. And seeing as how I've waited six years to see this episode, I really just want to watch it on my nice flat screen/surround sound set up without worrying about people having a party around me.
> 
> Is that lame? Anyone else on the same page?


The finale is on the same day I'm moving out of my house, and in with my parents for a few months. They don't have HD, or a DVR. I'm strongly learning towards leaving the TV and a single folding chair at my house, and watching LOST there by myself with some pizza, just so I can see it in HD.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

TheDewAddict said:


> The finale is on the same day I'm moving out of my house, and in with my parents for a few months. They don't have HD, or a DVR. I'm strongly learning towards leaving the TV and a single folding chair at my house, and watching LOST there by myself with some pizza, just so I can see it in HD.


I think this is the appropriate and rational thing to do. All agreed?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

TheDewAddict said:


> The finale is on the same day I'm moving out of my house, and in with my parents for a few months. They don't have HD, or a DVR. I'm strongly learning towards leaving the TV and a single folding chair at my house, and watching LOST there by myself with some pizza, just so I can see it in HD.


If you have HD and a DVR, and you're moving in with your parents, why can't you just hook up your TV at their house and get HD there?


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

latrobe7 said:


> On the positive side I got goosebumps when Jack told John " I wish you had believed me."


that's what locke wrote to jack before the ajira flight, right?



uncdrew said:


> Yeah, I was expecting a witty type of "Ooops" comment from Sawyer when the watch started again.
> 
> No way he was going to believe Jack. Heck, I almost didn't.


especially after the whole bomb/juliet thing... who would believe jack?



danterner said:


> I could have mis-seen it, but I think that while Jack was swimming up and out with Sawyer he was holding the portable O2 to Sawyer's face, not his own.


that's what i saw



Shaunnick said:


> I think this is the appropriate and rational thing to do. All agreed?


absolutely... seriously... i would do this.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Shaunnick said:


> I think this is the appropriate and rational thing to do. All agreed?


I would move the next day. There are priorities man!!


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Shaunnick said:


> I think this is the appropriate and rational thing to do. All agreed?


So say we all!


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Steveknj said:


> I would move the next day. There are priorities man!!


Ha!


----------



## lexsar (Dec 16, 2003)

mmilton80 said:


> And when I watch alone, I prefer to be myself.


Awesome George Thorogood reference. Props to Mmilton80!!! :up:


----------



## ThePennyDropped (Jul 5, 2006)

A few of you have asked where Ben is. My question is: where is Vincent (the dog)? 

Have I just forgotten how they wrote him off the show?


----------



## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

john4200 said:


> And the alternative plan you mention does not hold water. If all the candidates except Jack get blown up on the sub, how can Locke finish off Jack?


Umm...I got nothin'. 



DevdogAZ said:


> In the preview
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





Spoiler



That was from when Locke was playing backgammon with Walt. If it wasn't in the first episode, it was the first couple of episodes.





TheDewAddict said:


> The finale is on the same day I'm moving out of my house, and in with my parents for a few months. They don't have HD, or a DVR. I'm strongly learning towards leaving the TV and a single folding chair at my house, and watching LOST there by myself with some pizza, just so I can see it in HD.


Gotta do it. :up:


----------



## SugarBowl (Jan 5, 2007)

I suppose jack is trekking to the well now to find desmond. How many episodes will it take him to get there?


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

ThePennyDropped said:


> A few of you have asked where Ben is. My question is: where is Vincent (the dog)?
> 
> Have I just forgotten how they wrote him off the show?


I thought he was living with Rose and Bernard.


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

mrdazzo7 said:


> I seriously can't believe they just killed Jin and Sun like that--didn't see it coming at all. Although I'm sure that's not the end of them--something tells me the people who died will live on in the alt-world, although hopefully as the regular personalities. In other words, when Jin and Sun wake up after drowning they'll be together in the alternate world... might be kind of awkward when they remember they have a child that no longer exists, but whatever. I really hope that's not the end for them...


After the sub blew up, and we were back in the flash-sideways where Jack was saying goodbye to Locke in the wheelchair, didn't Jack pause a second as Jin walked by in the hallway and went into a room? It was as if Jack thought "Wait, I know that guy from somewhere"

If that's the case, Jin is alive in the flash-sideways and will probably be with his child.

Please tell me someone else saw that.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

markz said:


> After the sub blew up, and we were back in the flash-sideways where Jack was saying goodbye to Locke in the wheelchair, didn't Jack pause a second as Jin walked by in the hallway and went into a room? It was as if Jack thought "Wait, I know that guy from somewhere"
> 
> If that's the case, Jin is alive in the flash-sideways and will probably be with his child.
> 
> Please tell me someone else saw that.


Jin was definitely there. Not sure if Jack saw him or not.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Shaunnick said:


> I think this is the appropriate and rational thing to do. All agreed?


Or buy your parents an early anniversary present: HD TV.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

cheesesteak said:


> As much as I try to give up wondering why nobody never explains nothing to nobody on this show, I just can't. I guess I'm defective that way. It's driven me nuts since the Others were introduced. The Others. The Tailies. The Temple people. Widmore's people and whatever other factions I forgot. Everybody points rifles at and threatens to kill our heroes but nobody ever tells them why they're being messed with until about 27 episodes later.


Since the beginning this has driven me nuts. Why don't they sit down and compare notes??? Not just the Losties and the Others, but just the Losties themselves?

I knew this-



> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> That was from when Locke was playing backgammon with Walt. If it wasn't in the first episode, it was the first couple of episodes.


Also I thought the watch would stop at 1:08.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

SugarBowl said:


> I suppose jack is trekking to the well now to find desmond. How many episodes will it take him to get there?


Since the island seems to be getting smaller and they can trek across it in just a few hours, I would think not long at all now. 

And for the record - no way is anyone else going to be in the room with me when I watch this. I have learned my lesson in the past. I would love to go to or have a party afterwards, but I want it quiet dark and some tissues around.


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## NYHeel (Oct 7, 2003)

Why does everyone assume that a candidate can't kill himself? Richard's demonstration was just that he, Richard, can't die. Not that other people can't die or kill themselves. Wasn't that FLocke's whole point. He can't kill the candidates so he tricks them into killing themselves. Sayid was a candidate and he killed himself.

One other thing that's bugging me. Why did FLocke bother to save Jack from Whidmore's attack in the end of the last episode? He already knew that Jack didn't want to leave so this was a simple way to get Jack to die (without killing Jack himself). Maybe FLocke needed Jack to help round up the group from Whidmore, but that seems kind of weak.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

NYHeel said:


> One other thing that's bugging me. Why did FLocke bother to save Jack from Whidmore's attack in the end of the last episode? He already knew that Jack didn't want to leave so this was a simple way to get Jack to die (without killing Jack himself). Maybe FLocke needed Jack to help round up the group from Whidmore, but that seems kind of weak.


I get the feeling the answers to questions like these are like the answer to the question "Why can't the rook move diagonally?" Because it's against the rules.

We'll see.


----------



## NYHeel (Oct 7, 2003)

MickeS said:


> I get the feeling the answers to questions like these are like the answer to the question "Why can't the rook move diagonally?" Because it's against the rules.
> 
> We'll see.


But in this case it wouldn't be against the rules since FLocke wasn't the one doing the killing, it was the Whidmore group.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

NYHeel said:


> But in this case it wouldn't be against the rules since FLocke wasn't the one doing the killing, it was the Whidmore group.


I think he needed Jack though, for the reason you said. And who knows what else.


----------



## unixadm (Jan 1, 2001)

I think I see where all of this is going...I think Smokey is being jailed on the island (think of Superman 2 with the people being jailed in the mirror in space). Jacob is his jailer. The loophole is that MiB can escape the island if and only if Jacob is dead AND all candidates have killed each other. He found the loophole to kill Jacob, but if there are survivors among the candidates, then MiB can't leave.

If Smokey's plan of the candidates killing each other would have happened, he could escape from his "prison", would leave the island and cause death in destruction across the world. But that didn't happen.....

We know that Jacob was looking for candidates.....he knew that MiB would find a loophole to try to escape. I am thinking that in the end there will only one candidate that ends up replacing Jacob and MiB remains himself. Jacob was his "jailer" that kept MiB there....and as long as there is a jailer or a candidate for replacement, MiB can't leave. 

The last person that is left on the island (Jack or Sawyer?) will end up being the Jacob replacement and their sideways duplicate will end up dying so the final reality for that one person will be sitting on the island for hundreds or thousands of years keeping MiB from leaving until one of them can figure out how to take advantage of another loophole.

In the end, for the rest of the people who have all died on the island, there will only be the sideways reality....they will continue their lives in the reality they should have had if Jacob hadn't visited them when they were younger and veered their lives into a different direction. The island reality never existed for them (although they may have vague memories of weird dreams they have had about the island and each other...maybe a deja vu feeling once in a while).

My guess is that the point of the whole story from start to finish was for Jacob to get a replacement to keep MiB on the island (while MiB tried to find a way off the island)....but the process of doing this would change lots of lives.......second part of the plan for Jacob was to then make sure the rest of the candidates that didn't qualify went back to their lives the way they were before Jacob interfered them. Pick that single winner with no one else knowing or remembering what happened in the end.


----------



## Sacrilegium (Dec 14, 2006)

So how does this tie in with Michael not being able to kill himself off-island?


----------



## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

unixadm said:


> I think I see where all of this is going...I think Smokey is being jailed on the island (think of Superman 2 with the people being jailed in the mirror in space). Jacob is his jailer. The loophole is that MiB can escape the island if and only if Jacob is dead AND all candidates have killed each other. He found the loophole to kill Jacob, but if there are survivors among the candidates, then MiB can't leave.
> 
> If Smokey's plan of the candidates killing each other would have happened, he could escape from his "prison", would leave the island and cause death in destruction across the world. But that didn't happen.....
> 
> ...


Sounds like the ending will leave us still with many unanswered questions where your scenario wraps it up nicely.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

The problem I have with that whole scenario, is, what was the previous 5 years all about? Why did we even need to sit through 5 years of Others, and Ben being the baddie, and Dharma (where does Widmore and Dharma fit into this scenario?) and whatever else. Right now, that's the problem I have with this whole MIB vs. Jacob scenario. I've said it in other threads that I'm feeling that, while I spent 5 years enjoying the show, most of it was really pretty meaningless in the scheme of the whole thing. It's like a big Sawyer con on everyone who stuck with the show all this time.


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

sshedlock said:


> I'm going to be in Vegas on that Sunday, so I am sure I will find a good one.


So if "Whatever happened, happened" and "Whatever happens in Vegas stays in Vegas," then will you have really seen the finale once you leave Vegas?

(Ouch, that hurts my head.)


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

Guess I'm the first one in this thread to say:

I couldn't be more thrilled that Jin and Sun are dead!

Wow, did they ever waste a lot of time trying to make us care whether that cheatin' ho and that child-abandoner were together.


----------



## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

Not sure if this was asked about but in the scene where it was dark out and Jack came and rescued the crew...seconds later the whole group was seen out of breath from running away and it was broad daylight...why is that? I've seen this happen on 2-3 occasions I think.


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Alfer said:


> Not sure if this was asked about but in the scene where it was dark out and Jack came and rescued the crew...seconds later the whole group was seen out of breath from running away and it was broad daylight...why is that? I've seen this happen on 2-3 occasions I think.


Rather than spend a lot of time focusing on them running around the island they skip large chunks of time with night/day shifts so that it is understood that the losties have traveled quite a distance. I think.


----------



## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

Shaunnick said:


> Rather than spend a lot of time focusing on them running around the island they skip large chunks of time with night/day shifts so that it is understood that the losties have traveled quite a distance. I think.


I'd be able to go with that, but the way it was edited they were all so out of breath and the way it looked like they were just a little ways away from where they were...I'd think if it was meant to convey hours of walking they all wouldn't have look so out of breath as if they just just ran a marathon.

Yeah I know it's just a technical glitch but it seemed so odd at the time..even my wife, who doesn't usually notice those things, said "wait it was just dark and now it's daytime..what's up with that?"

Oh well....back to the usual tangled web of theories about what's coming up.


----------



## unixadm (Jan 1, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> The problem I have with that whole scenario, is, what was the previous 5 years all about? Why did we even need to sit through 5 years of Others, and Ben being the baddie, and Dharma (where does Widmore and Dharma fit into this scenario?) and whatever else. Right now, that's the problem I have with this whole MIB vs. Jacob scenario. I've said it in other threads that I'm feeling that, while I spent 5 years enjoying the show, most of it was really pretty meaningless in the scheme of the whole thing. It's like a big Sawyer con on everyone who stuck with the show all this time.


You are right...but if you think about it....we already know that Jacob and MiB have been there thousands of years...we know that Richard was there since the 1800's....The entire 1977 Darma Initiative, Others, pushing of the button, etc werejust a few seconds on the clock when compared to the whole picture of Jacob and MiB. None of that has much significance in the big picture story line with the exception of some of the people at each slot in time were candidates in Jacob's eye.

If my prediction for the ending is right, then yes, it kind of sucks that all this time we invested in learning about Darma, the losties etc was all insignificant in the final ending, but I can't see it going much different. Then again, you look at any of our lives and compare it to the past 2000 years, we are just as insignificant.....no matter what, it is still a fun ride.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> The problem I have with that whole scenario, is, what was the previous 5 years all about? Why did we even need to sit through 5 years of Others, and Ben being the baddie, and Dharma (where does Widmore and Dharma fit into this scenario?) and whatever else. Right now, that's the problem I have with this whole MIB vs. Jacob scenario. I've said it in other threads that I'm feeling that, while I spent 5 years enjoying the show, most of it was really pretty meaningless in the scheme of the whole thing. It's like a big Sawyer con on everyone who stuck with the show all this time.


Yeah, I agree with this (though I would not go to far as to say that it was meaningless or that I feel conned). Even though each season has had its own theme and place in the overall arc of the story, this season's theme feels more disconnected to the overall story than the other ones did.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

unixadm said:


> You are right...but if you think about it....we already know that Jacob and MiB have been there thousands of years...we know that Richard was there since the 1800's....The entire 1977 Darma Initiative, Others, pushing of the button, etc werejust a few seconds on the clock when compared to the whole picture of Jacob and MiB. None of that has much significance in the big picture story line with the exception of some of the people at each slot in time were candidates in Jacob's eye.
> 
> If my prediction for the ending is right, then yes, it kind of sucks that all this time we invested in learning about Darma, the losties etc was all insignificant in the final ending, but I can't see it going much different. Then again, you look at any of our lives and compare it to the past 2000 years, we are just as insignificant.....no matter what, it is still a fun ride.


You might be entirely right, and that's how it ends. But the story that us viewers care about are our Losties. To find out that everything we watched for 5 years is insignificant it the grand scheme of things is an insult to the viewers. It's like our lives are just a blink of an eye in the grand life of earth. But to us, our 80 years or so, and the events around that time is all that matters. We all will need closure as to WHY we saw five years of events and how they play into the final outcome. If Dharma was really an insignificant event, then why did I spend 3 or so years learning all about it.


----------



## TheDewAddict (Aug 21, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> If you have HD and a DVR, and you're moving in with your parents, why can't you just hook up your TV at their house and get HD there?


I have DirecTV, with their DVR. My parents have U-verse. I'll only be there for 2-3 months, so it's not worth it, especially in summer during repeat season.


----------



## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

So did anyone comment about alternate Locke muttering about pushing the button (or something like that) while he was asleep in the hospital?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

TheDewAddict said:


> I have DirecTV, with their DVR. My parents have U-verse. I'll only be there for 2-3 months, so it's not worth it, especially in summer during repeat season.


Can you set up an antenna and get the OTA signal in HD at your parent's house?


----------



## scarpent (Feb 16, 2010)

So, what if Jack hadn't looked in his pack on the sub right away? If Locke didn't know that Kate would be shot, the bag might have just sat there and... the bomb would not have gone off? Or did Flocke shoot Kate to make sure Jack would go into the sub to help her and look in his pack?


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

MickeS said:


> I get the feeling the answers to questions like these are like the answer to the question "Why can't the rook move diagonally?" Because it's against the rules.
> 
> We'll see.


Or it's a Smeagle thing. Jack is needed for something else.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> You might be entirely right, and that's how it ends. But the story that us viewers care about are our Losties. To find out that everything we watched for 5 years is insignificant it the grand scheme of things is an insult to the viewers. It's like our lives are just a blink of an eye in the grand life of earth. But to us, our 80 years or so, and the events around that time is all that matters. We all will need closure as to WHY we saw five years of events and how they play into the final outcome. If Dharma was really an insignificant event, then why did I spend 3 or so years learning all about it.


Yup.

Unixadm gives a very plausable scenario, but if that's what we get from a group of people who get paid big bucks to write this for us...

That'll suck.


----------



## eMarkM (Apr 28, 2003)

unixadm said:


> I think I see where all of this is going...I think Smokey is being jailed on the island (think of Superman 2 with the people being jailed in the mirror in space). Jacob is his jailer. The loophole is that MiB can escape the island if and only if Jacob is dead AND all candidates have killed each other. He found the loophole to kill Jacob, but if there are survivors among the candidates, then MiB can't leave.
> 
> If Smokey's plan of the candidates killing each other would have happened, he could escape from his "prison", would leave the island and cause death in destruction across the world. But that didn't happen.....
> 
> ...


I think this pretty much sums it up, though still not sure how sideways world figures into it.

We know there have been a lot of others that Jacob has brought to the island previously. In the past Jacob has been hands off and has allowed Smokey to trick everyone into killing each other in some way in the past. So this is all part of the game. Then Jacob recruits Richard to be his conduit of indirect influence and the "Others" are born. But now that Jacob is dead, if he can only get these candidates to kill each other, he's finally free.

But Jacob does say "it only has to end once" in that first scene with MiB and I do think that will figure somehow in the end. Maybe that simply means one of them becomes Jacob v2.0, but I think somehow it will "end".


----------



## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

As for the whole Jin/Sun deal...no worries I guess.


Spoiler






> TV Guide has an interview with Yunjin Kim, who plays Sun,in which she says Sun and Jin "will complete [their sideways] storyline and fans will be very satisfied at the end. The finale will be a very nice closure to this long journey."


----------



## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

yeah, the Dharma stuff and the Others may be totally irrelevant. that would suck..

And I still have no clue what Widmore wants..

And is the fact that the island moves in space and time irrelevant also?? That donkey wheel was made a very, very long time ago, right? WhY?


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

The Dharma story wasn't meaningless - it was an essential part of MiB's Rube-Goldberg-like plan to create a loophole with which to kill Jacob (which Jacob then piggybacked off of to set up one move further than MiB and ultimately defeat him somehow with Desmond and Jack).

MiB impersonated Jacob in the cabin so he could tell Locke to move the island. Locke tells Ben, who moves it instead. Locke's still there, and MiB wants him off-island so he can die and be brought back by Jack so he can impersonate him and look important to con Richard into getting access to Jacob with Ben. So MiB breaks the donkey wheel, sends the island bouncing around in time, tells Richard in 2007 to tell Locke that he needs to leave the island and get his friends back, Locke tells Richard in 1950 that he's super special and will be his leader someday, Locke jumps to pre-Richard-arrival date, MiB as Christian tells Locke to turn the wheel and say hello to Jack for him, Locke jumps off, tries getting people back, as far as he knows fails, goes to commit suicide and is helped by Ben, Ben brings him back to the island with Jack, MiB impersonates Locke, gets access to Jacob, and kills him. Because of this plan of MiBs, the 1950s were involved.

Jacob piggybacked on what MiB was doing by finding Jack/Kate/Sawyer/etc early in life and making sure they'd flash too when the island moved, and sent them to the 1970s. Them being there allowed the circumstances that led to the creation of the hatch with its countdown clock and code-accepting Apple ][ with an Execute button on it that Desmond would use. That brought 815 there in the first place. That maybe allowed the sideways to be created (indirectly?), which maybe is part of Jacob's one-step-ahead-of-MiB plan.

What we do know (imho) is that Jacob had a long complicated plan that involved Richard, Ilana, and Jack, at the very least. Part of that history for Jack was being in the Dharma Initiative. It was part of what led them to be there.

They mentioned Jacob as early as season three I think (in the room 23 video clip where it said to Carl's pried-opened eyes "God loves you as he loved Jacob"). They mentioned the black and white stones as early as the PILOT EPISODE OF THE SERIES, which I've been saying forever, where Locke showed those two backgammon pieces to Walt and talked about there being two sides - one light, and one dark.

The main story line about good-vs-evil, Jacob-vs-MiB, has been in there since the very beginning. We just haven't been told every detail about that until now.


----------



## mikieminnow (Mar 16, 2004)

I kept you watching the show, didn't it? 

I for one have totally enjoyed the ride. I think that in the end, that's what it's all about. No deep meaning, no rocket science, just enjoying the ride.



Steveknj said:


> The problem I have with that whole scenario, is, what was the previous 5 years all about? Why did we even need to sit through 5 years of Others, and Ben being the baddie, and Dharma (where does Widmore and Dharma fit into this scenario?) and whatever else. Right now, that's the problem I have with this whole MIB vs. Jacob scenario. I've said it in other threads that I'm feeling that, while I spent 5 years enjoying the show, most of it was really pretty meaningless in the scheme of the whole thing. It's like a big Sawyer con on everyone who stuck with the show all this time.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Alfer said:


> As for the whole Jin/Sun deal...no worries I guess.


c'mon, spoiler tags..


----------



## SusieK (Apr 28, 2010)

ElJay said:


> I thought this episode was rather cheesy. Glad Flocke has the ability to instantaneously make a fail-safe bomb timer out of a random wristwatch.
> 
> Unfortunately I found that backpack thing to be painfully obvious. Flocke putting it on Jack was just too weird.


I totally agree with you about the backpack...it stood out like a sore thumb, and out of character, as if Flock was 'trying to be helpful'...it just looked wierd.


----------



## jpicard (Oct 26, 2004)

ThePennyDropped said:


> A few of you have asked where Ben is. My question is: where is Vincent (the dog)?
> 
> Have I just forgotten how they wrote him off the show?


Vincent lives with scrappy Rose and scrappy Bernard out in the middle of the jungle in their happy camp. Rose and Bernie are not ever leaving the island because they like the island and that Rose is cured of her cancer while being on the island. This was shown several episodes ago, can't remember if it was tail end of last season or beginning of this one though.
I think Rose and Bernie still being on the island happily every after will never be answered as far as either of them being a candidate or not. Those characters are just faded off into the sunset...


----------



## SusieK (Apr 28, 2010)

Jack handed one of the two portable air devices to Hurley, and told him to buddy breath to get Kate to the surface. I'd assume he'd do the same for Sawyer, too.[/QUOTE]

Jack would not have been able to buddy breath for Sawyer, because passed out Sawyer, would not have been able to hold his own breath under water, in between buddy breaths, and would have immediately drown... But since Sawyer was the one who tinkered with the bomb, perhaps this saved/protected him from being able to kill himself underwater.


----------



## hapdrastic (Mar 31, 2006)

SusieK said:


> Jack handed one of the two portable air devices to Hurley, and told him to buddy breath to get Kate to the surface. I'd assume he'd do the same for Sawyer, too.


Jack would not have been able to buddy breath for Sawyer, because passed out Sawyer, would not have been able to hold his own breath under water, in between buddy breaths, and would have immediately drown... But since Sawyer was the one who tinkered with the bomb, perhaps this saved/protected him from being able to kill himself underwater.[/QUOTE]

Sawyer had the tank in his mouth when they showed Jack pulling him out of the sub.


----------



## SusieK (Apr 28, 2010)

hapdrastic said:


> Jack would not have been able to buddy breath for Sawyer, because passed out Sawyer, would not have been able to hold his own breath under water, in between buddy breaths, and would have immediately drown... But since Sawyer was the one who tinkered with the bomb, perhaps this saved/protected him from being able to kill himself underwater.


Sawyer had the tank in his mouth when they showed Jack pulling him out of the sub.[/QUOTE]
I guess we just have to believe that Sawyer suddely became conscious underwater, after being severly knocked unconscious (and before drowning), and at that exact moment, Jack gave him his first breath, at which time he was then able to hold his own breath, and alternately use the tank, making it to the surface intact with only a bit of water in his lungs. ok. glad we were able to save one lostie!


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

GDG76 said:


> The craziest part of this episode to me was that Jack was able to push Fake Locke into the water.
> 
> That says to me that the smoke powers may be useless against the "candidates". Could lead to some pretty cool Flocke/Jack/Sawyer fights.


He can't kill the candidates, but I think he was easily pushed into the water because he didn't want to enter the sub.



NYHeel said:


> One other thing that's bugging me. Why did FLocke bother to save Jack from Whidmore's attack in the end of the last episode? He already knew that Jack didn't want to leave so this was a simple way to get Jack to die (without killing Jack himself). Maybe FLocke needed Jack to help round up the group from Whidmore, but that seems kind of weak.


I'm assuming that Widmore and his guys can't kill the candidates either. So Jack was really in no danger, and neither was Locke. Locke just rescued him to earn points with Jack.



scarpent said:


> So, what if Jack hadn't looked in his pack on the sub right away? If Locke didn't know that Kate would be shot, the bag might have just sat there and... the bomb would not have gone off? Or did Flocke shoot Kate to make sure Jack would go into the sub to help her and look in his pack?


This was my thought, but I don't remember where Locke was when Kate got shot. He had to get Jack on the sub somehow, and shooting Kate would do it. It also made it likely he would look in his pack. He did say a while back that Kate was only there to get the others where he wanted them.

I wish there was a rule book somewhere. I agree it seems odd that nobody can touch Locke, but Ben could kill Jacob. Also, Ben and Widmore seemed to be unable to kill each other. In fairness, one of MiB's own people should be able to kill him. Maybe Claire?

If Jacob was MiB's jailer, you'd think he would have been the one who was more angry at spending years alone on the island with him. If Jack gets stuck doing that... But Jacob didn't seem to mind.  Weaving just doesn't seem that exciting to me.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

betts4 said:


> but I want it quiet dark and some tissues around.


TMI


----------



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Something tells me that the whole series is inspired by Akira Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress." This movie was one of the inspirations for Star Wars. Basically, it centered around two nobody's caught in the middle of some great events. Lots of what we've seen in Lost was riveting, but ultimately unimportant to the main story line: Jacob vs. MiB.


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

jlb said:


> Just rewatched. They totally telegraphed the C4. As Jack and the group arrive at the sub dock, right after the flash sideways, Flocke takes off his pack and puts it behind jack, but beyond jack's pack.


I caught it right away, though having a Tivo means I can back up a bit when I have a "wtf did he do" moment like this one. 



john4200 said:


> But why put the bomb in Jack's pack? Jack said twice that he was not going. Why would Locke assume that Jack's pack would even be on the sub for a few minutes, let alone remain on the sub once it submerged?
> 
> ...
> 
> Except that this is all rather complicated and hard to believe. It would seem easier for Locke to arrange for Jack and the other candidates to be on the plane when the electrical systems are turned on, perhaps for a test, not the actual departure.


To make this more convoluted, Flocke needed C4 he didn't have (and a digital watch, with timer) to make a bomb he hadn't planned for, and then somehow get everyone on the sub including Jack. And open the pack (as already mentioned) before the timer ran out. Talk about winging it. And I'm supposed to believe he planned the Locke body long con?



MickeS said:


> Yeah, I agree with this (though I would not go to far as to say that it was meaningless or that I feel conned). Even though each season has had its own theme and place in the overall arc of the story, this season's theme feels more disconnected to the overall story than the other ones did.


Disconnected is a good word. I love Lost, but the writing this season at times has also felt as clumsy as that backpack switch. The locking in cages, the bad plans of Sawyer and Flocke, why was no one guarding the sub, why wasn't the plane blown up. Sayid's sudden turn. The deaths that achieved nothing. Widmore apparently bringing a case of inflatable Red Shirts with him. And the generator, running the fences, is outside the fences? Or just as poorly guarded as the sub?

And put the C4 next to the center fuel tank, Widmorons. Under the floor, no one will see, you can wire it to all kinds of stuff. And that explosion will be BIG.

I know they're saving a huge amount to the end, and maybe the finale will be the best thing ever written, and maybe the deaths were a bit shocking sure, but disconnected fits in other ways than you might have meant.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> So MiB breaks the donkey wheel, sends the island bouncing around in time, tells Richard in 2007 to tell Locke that he needs to leave the island and get his friends back


If the person who told Richard "go tell Locke to leave the island, bring his friends back, and die" was MIB, how did MIB pose as Locke if Locke wasn't dead yet?


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

aindik said:


> If the person who told Richard "go tell Locke to leave the island, bring his friends back, and die" was MIB, how did MIB pose as Locke if Locke wasn't dead yet?


2007
The real Locke was already dead but he jumped forward in time from 2004.
Man In Black sent Richard to the Locke from the past.


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## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

unixadm said:


> We know that Jacob was looking for candidates.....he knew that MiB would find a loophole to try to escape. I am thinking that in the end there will only one candidate that ends up replacing Jacob and MiB remains himself. Jacob was his "jailer" that kept MiB there....and as long as there is a jailer or a candidate for replacement, MiB can't leave.


I disagree with your suggested ending - and here's why - Jacob told MiB "it only ends once". I think the Losties are the end. Having Jack or Sawyer be Jacob's replacement? That doesn't end the story. I think we're going to have a very specific ending to this story. I don't think it will end as a mirror of the beginning of 'The Incident' (the Season 5 finale).



Sacrilegium said:


> So how does this tie in with Michael not being able to kill himself off-island?


The island wasn't done with Michael yet. Mr. Friendly even told him that. It wasn't until the island was done with him that he was able to die.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

JYoung said:


> 2007
> The real Locke was already dead but he jumped forward in time from 2004.
> Man In Black sent Richard to the Locke from the past.


I'm still confused. This seems like a time paradox to me. He's putting the wheels in motion to make something happen (John Locke's death) that has already happened?

And also, even if Locke were dead, was he on the island yet? If not, how could MIB take his form?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> The Dharma story wasn't meaningless - it was an essential part of MiB's Rube-Goldberg-like plan to create a loophole with which to kill Jacob (which Jacob then piggybacked off of to set up one move further than MiB and ultimately defeat him somehow with Desmond and Jack).
> 
> MiB impersonated Jacob in the cabin so he could tell Locke to move the island. Locke tells Ben, who moves it instead. Locke's still there, and MiB wants him off-island so he can die and be brought back by Jack so he can impersonate him and look important to con Richard into getting access to Jacob with Ben. So MiB breaks the donkey wheel, sends the island bouncing around in time, tells Richard in 2007 to tell Locke that he needs to leave the island and get his friends back, Locke tells Richard in 1950 that he's super special and will be his leader someday, Locke jumps to pre-Richard-arrival date, MiB as Christian tells Locke to turn the wheel and say hello to Jack for him, Locke jumps off, tries getting people back, as far as he knows fails, goes to commit suicide and is helped by Ben, Ben brings him back to the island with Jack, MiB impersonates Locke, gets access to Jacob, and kills him. Because of this plan of MiBs, the 1950s were involved.
> 
> ...


That's a great summary and makes sense. I NEVER in a million years would have come up with all of that. I'm really impressed. I hope they explain that. I'm still curious how the Dharma initiative was part of MIB's plan, and where Widmore fits in, but hopefully we'll get to see it. My thought on the Widmore piece is that he's an agent of Jacob's and he wanted to originally kill Ben because he felt he was dangerous to Jacob (he was right), and he had to go back and take care of MiB himself and figured out that Desmond was the key to doing that (how, I'm not sure yet). I'm also thinking Ben is in league with MiB somehow. Remember, he's an extremely good liar, and he was gung ho on bringing everyone back. Also, someone mentioned that the four Candidates were exactly the same four people who he needed at the end of season two and into season three. The flash sideways, is, perhaps a Jacob creation, not sure about that yet.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

mikieminnow said:


> I kept you watching the show, didn't it?
> 
> I for one have totally enjoyed the ride. I think that in the end, that's what it's all about. No deep meaning, no rocket science, just enjoying the ride.


Well, yeah, but I THOUGHT I was watching a different show . Based on what jkeegan said, I might do a 180 and totally enjoy this little game at the end. Hopefully they will tie that part together so it all makes sense like that.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Delta13 said:


> I caught it right away, though having a Tivo means I can back up a bit when I have a "wtf did he do" moment like this one.
> 
> To make this more convoluted, Flocke needed C4 he didn't have (and a digital watch, with timer) to make a bomb he hadn't planned for, and then somehow get everyone on the sub including Jack. And open the pack (as already mentioned) before the timer ran out. Talk about winging it. And I'm supposed to believe he planned the Locke body long con?
> 
> ...


I agree, disconnected is a good word. Sometimes I think the writers want to take things to a level only they understand. They want to push us into thinking one way, by being vague about things, and then, at the end they will say, you should have seen the clues from the beginning. I think it's one of those mysteries where at the end, you'll go back and say...oh yeah, that was a clue. I know I'm going to watch the whole series again and try and find them!!


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

The more I think about it, I think Hurley will be the big hero. The main purpose of Jack and Sawyer are to be rivals. Kate is there to provide story tension between those two. That leaves Hurley's purpose. I think MiB will be defeated by Hugo.


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

I am a Lost fan, but this was the worst episode in a long while. It was like another remake of The Poseidon Adventure. And the drama with Jin/Sun... first there is the previously mentioned selfishness of a baby at home, but also you are only allowed so many Desmond/Penny Sayid/whoever love affairs per series and I buy that those more. Finally Sayid's death (who was really a more favorite character) became secondary. 

Was like a bad B movie.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Philosofy said:


> The more I think about it, I think Hurley will be the big hero. The main purpose of Jack and Sawyer are to be rivals. Kate is there to provide story tension between those two. That leaves Hurley's purpose. I think MiB will be defeated by Hugo.


I would love to see this. The nice laid back 'dude' wins over all!


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Regarding those observations that bullets don't penetrate unLocke's shirt whereas Sayid did with the dagger. They twice made a point about sing that particular dagger. It had properties allowing it to harm both MiB and Jacob. It's special, unlike regular bullets, etc.

As the episode ended I wondered about the quirky plot line where Sun lost the ability to speak English. Posters here surmised that her inability was a 'leak' from the LAXuniverse. If so, maybe the unconscious Sawyer will wake up with some plot relevant LAXuniverse information from cop Sawyer. Otherwise, her temporary language loss was just to add emotion to her reunion with Jin where suddenly she could speak the English ranguage again.

Although I'll miss Sayid, a fav of mine, I liked the way they hinted about his return from the Dark Side in the Desmond well scene and how his good side led him to die a hero.


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## Talon (Dec 5, 2001)

I agree with others here about how it kind of sucks that nearly everything storywise is not related much to the main arc of Jacob vs MIB. I said as much in the thread about the last episode and why the show is not as great to me anymore. But its still enjoyable and they may surprise me in the end.

Still, I did like this episode. It had a fast pace and a lot going on. I hate that Jin and Sun are gone, especially Sun. She was nice to look at.

I just hope that in these last few episodes they can find a way to relate some of the past season storylines into Jacob vs MIB. I do think Jack is the replacement, he has made it clear he has it in his head that he is supposed to stay there. Nobody else feels that way. But, OTOH, couldn't Locke have let him die on the beach when it was shelled?

To what someone said earlier about Jack in the hospital hallway, I think he definitely noticed Jin.


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## Keen (Aug 3, 2009)

philw1776 said:


> Regarding those observations that bullets don't penetrate unLocke's shirt whereas Sayid did with the dagger. They twice made a point about sing that particular dagger. It had properties allowing it to harm both MiB and Jacob. It's special, unlike regular bullets, etc.


Jacob wasn't killed with that dagger. He was killed with some random dagger Flocke had on him.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

philw1776 said:


> Regarding those observations that bullets don't penetrate unLocke's shirt whereas Sayid did with the dagger. They twice made a point about sing that particular dagger. It had properties allowing it to harm both MiB and Jacob. It's special, unlike regular bullets, etc.
> 
> As the episode ended I wondered about the quirky plot line where Sun lost the ability to speak English. Posters here surmised that her inability was a 'leak' from the LAXuniverse. If so, maybe the unconscious Sawyer will wake up with some plot relevant LAXuniverse information from cop Sawyer. Otherwise, her temporary language loss was just to add emotion to her reunion with Jin where suddenly she could speak the English ranguage again.
> 
> Although I'll miss Sayid, a fav of mine, I liked the way they hinted about his return from the Dark Side in the Desmond well scene and how his good side led him to die a hero.


I thought it was interesting (and probably done for our benefit) that their native language being Korean, they spoke English to each other in their dying moments.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Talon said:


> I agree with others here about how it kind of sucks that nearly everything storywise is not related much to the main arc of Jacob vs MIB. I said as much in the thread about the last episode and why the show is not as great to me anymore. But its still enjoyable and they may surprise me in the end.


I said this after the last episode of last season when they were setting this season up. It's actually a bit better than I expected, but, if they don't logically tie up 5 years worth of viewing into the whole arc, I'll be a bit peeved. Not enough to write the series off as a waste of time, but it will give me a "Sopranos ending" feeling.

Anyone think they may leave a few things unresolved because they might be planning a movie?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> I thought it was interesting (and probably done for our benefit) that their native language being Korean, they spoke English to each other in their dying moments.


...although (rarely for a Big Network Show) they've never been shy about having them speak Korean...


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

aindik said:


> I'm still confused. This seems like a time paradox to me. He's putting the wheels in motion to make something happen (John Locke's death) that has already happened?


In a time model where things can't change (there's only one set of events.. what happened happened), you can still have things that are caused by future events.. you can even have things caused by themselves.. It seems counter-intuitive because of our lifetime of experience with cause and effect, but nothing in physics prevents it.. One example that's usually given is that if you created a wormhole, somehow moved one side (A) of the wormhole near the speed of light for a while, then moved it back near the first side (B), one side would be ahead of the other. If you put side B in the pocket of a pool table and side A on the surface of the table, it'd be perfectly ok according to physics if you hit a ball aimed to the side of B, while it was moving towards B and still on the table a future version of the ball comes out of A and hits B on its path, and knocks the current version of the ball into B, sending it back in time to come out at A and hit the previous version of the ball into B.

You hit the nail on the head though, it's certainly INTERESTING. It's particularly cool that in 2007 MiB, AS FLocke (who he could only impersonate since they already brought Locke's body back to the island), tells Richard to tell RealLocke that after he bounces to the past he should go off island (so he can die so he can be brought back to the island so that MiB can even look like FLocke at all, to even be able to do that). No question about it, the result leads to the cause, instead of the cause leading to the result. But that's perfectly ok according to physics.



> And also, even if Locke were dead, was he on the island yet? If not, how could MIB take his form?


Locke was brought to the island in 2007, and after that MiB took on his shape. He THEN told Richard to tell original time-jumping Locke that he needed to eventually (in the past, but which Locke hadn't experienced yet) leave the island, which lead to him being off island earlier in 2007, dying, and coming back.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> ...although (rarely for a Big Network Show) they've never been shy about having them speak Korean...


Yes, I thought that, which is why I thought it was a bit strange. They've spoken Korean exclusively through many episodes, especially early in the series (and the one flash sideways this year).


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Keen said:


> Jacob wasn't killed with that dagger. He was killed with some random dagger Flocke had on him.


I'm referring to that same dagger that MiB gave Ricardo to kill Jacob in the 1800s


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

How long has Desmond been in that well? He's going to have to go to the bathroom eventually, spoiling his water supply.


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## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

Steveknj said:


> I'm also thinking Ben is in league with MiB somehow. Remember, he's an extremely good liar, and he was gung ho on bringing everyone back. Also, someone mentioned that the four Candidates were exactly the same four people who he needed at the end of season two and into season three. The flash sideways, is, perhaps a Jacob creation, not sure about that yet.


Am I mis-remembering this, or did at some point Ben have to more or less unleash the smoke monster to save them in the Others' barracks? This would have been when Widmore's mercs came to the island trying to kill everyone. If Ben has control over the smoke monster or can at least call upon him in times of need, there would seem to be some sort of relationship.

Also, if Widmore's initial plan succeeded and the mercs killed everyone on the island, couldn't MIB just leave - contrary to Widmore's supposed end game? Or is this not so because it pre-dated Jacob dying?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

scheckeNYK said:


> Am I mis-remembering this, or did at some point Ben have to more or less unleash the smoke monster to save them in the Others' barracks? This would have been when Widmore's mercs came to the island trying to kill everyone. If Ben has control over the smoke monster or can at least call upon him in times of need, there would seem to be some sort of relationship.
> 
> Also, if Widmore's initial plan succeeded and the mercs killed everyone on the island, couldn't MIB just leave - contrary to Widmore's supposed end game? Or is this not so because it pre-dated Jacob dying?


Maybe I'm mis-remembering, but did Widmore's mercenaries REALLY want to kill everyone on the Island or did Ben just SAY they did? We know for a fact he wanted to kill Ben.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

scheckeNYK said:


> Am I mis-remembering this, or did at some point Ben have to more or less unleash the smoke monster to save them in the Others' barracks? This would have been when Widmore's mercs came to the island trying to kill everyone. If Ben has control over the smoke monster or can at least call upon him in times of need, there would seem to be some sort of relationship.


Ben called in the smoke monster to kill Widmore's goons. As we now know, killing Widmore's goons is something the smoke monster wanted to do anyway. I don't think Ben could tell it to do that (although that's what Ben thought he was doing). It just presented an opportunity.



scheckeNYK said:


> Also, if Widmore's initial plan succeeded and the mercs killed everyone on the island, couldn't MIB just leave - contrary to Widmore's supposed end game? Or is this not so because it pre-dated Jacob dying?


Ben kept saying that Widmore wanted to kill "every living thing" on this island. Are we still supposed to believe that, or are we to take everything Ben ever said as the ramblings of misinformed middle management?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

philw1776 said:


> As the episode ended I wondered about the quirky plot line where Sun lost the ability to speak English. Posters here surmised that her inability was a 'leak' from the LAXuniverse. If so, maybe the unconscious Sawyer will wake up with some plot relevant LAXuniverse information from cop Sawyer. Otherwise, her temporary language loss was just to add emotion to her reunion with Jin where suddenly she could speak the English ranguage again.





Steveknj said:


> I thought it was interesting (and probably done for our benefit) that their native language being Korean, they spoke English to each other in their dying moments.


The worst part about them not speaking Korean in that scene is that the last time they saw each other, Jin couldn't speak English. So Sun suddenly getting her English back in that moment made no sense, because it's the first moment in several days (story wise) when she'd actually be able to speak to someone in Korean and have them understand her.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Talon said:


> I just hope that in these last few episodes they can find a way to relate some of the past season storylines into Jacob vs MIB. I do think Jack is the replacement, he has made it clear he has it in his head that he is supposed to stay there.


I have faith that the story they are telling will make sense over the entire six years of episodes.

I don't think Jack is the replacement because (as others have stated, and I agree), I think they are going for closure. Not another cycle, but closure. Jacob's line is key, "It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress."



Steveknj said:


> Anyone think they may leave a few things unresolved because they might be planning a movie?


In a word, no. Carlton Cuse & Damon Lindelof have made it clear that when this last episode airs, they are done. Absolutely. Totally. Done. No movie, no nothing. They've said it over and over. (And by the way, word has it they finished editing the final episode earlier this week!)

Having said that... ABC owns the rights to LOST, not CC/DL. ABC can do whatever it wants, including movies, prequels, Chicken Shack spinoffs.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

astrohip said:


> In a word, no. Carlton Cuse & Damon Lindelof have made it clear that when this last episode airs, they are done. Absolutely. Totally. Done. No movie, no nothing. They've said it over and over. (And by the way, word has it they finished editing the final episode earlier this week!)


Which is why they suddenly had to add 30 minutes to the finale. They couldn't edit together everything tight enough to fit it into two hours.

My guess is that they saved so many reveals for the finale, that once they shot the whole thing and tried to edit it all together, it was simply too much for two hours of TV, and they couldn't leave stuff out, because these were the answers to the whole series. And with the prices ABC is charging for ads during the finale, I'm sure they were more than happy to accommodate CC/DL's request for an extra 30 minutes. I'm guessing that when all the commercials are removed, the show won't be more than 100 minutes, which would mean they only really added about 16-18 extra minutes of content.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

aindik said:


> I'm still confused. This seems like a time paradox to me. He's putting the wheels in motion to make something happen (John Locke's death) that has already happened?
> 
> And also, even if Locke were dead, was he on the island yet? If not, how could MIB take his form?


If he didn't send Richard over, his Locke form would go up in a puff of smoke and that would be the paradox as what happened had happened.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

aindik said:


> Ben called in the smoke monster to kill Widmore's goons. As we now know, killing Widmore's goons is something the smoke monster wanted to do anyway. I don't think Ben could tell it to do that (although that's what Ben thought he was doing). It just presented an opportunity.


On the other hand, Smokey still needed Ben alive to kill Locke and Jacob.


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## Roommate (Apr 23, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> The worst part about them not speaking Korean in that scene is that the last time they saw each other, Jin couldn't speak English. So Sun suddenly getting her English back in that moment made no sense, because it's the first moment in several days (story wise) when she'd actually be able to speak to someone in Korean and have them understand her.


That makes sense for Sun's perspective, but it doesn't really surprise me that Jin would still speak English. Sure, Korean is his native tongue, but he probably hasn't spoken a word of it in at least three years, during his time in 70s Dharmaville and since. He's used to English being his default language now.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

As had been speculated in another thread, I think that what Ben did ALLOWED the smoke monster in, rather than summoning it persay.

Remember there was a tub of water.. He reached his hand deep into it, and grabbed a plug of some sort.. He pulled it up, the water drained out, and that was enough.

I'll bet that before he released the water, it filled some network of tunnels.. Once he let it drain, that let smokey flow through that tunnel. That makes even more sense when you see Flock's reaction to being offered a drink by James, which he didn't seem to want to do.. It also jives with James' perception from his conversation with Flock that Flock couldn't just turn to smoke and fly over the water to get to Hydra island (because THAT would be ridiculous!).


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> In a time model where things can't change (there's only one set of events.. what happened happened), you can still have things that are caused by future events.. you can even have things caused by themselves.. It seems counter-intuitive because of our lifetime of experience with cause and effect, but nothing in physics prevents it.. One example that's usually given is that if you created a wormhole, somehow moved one side (A) of the wormhole near the speed of light for a while, then moved it back near the first side (B), one side would be ahead of the other. If you put side B in the pocket of a pool table and side A on the surface of the table, it'd be perfectly ok according to physics if you hit a ball aimed to the side of B, while it was moving towards B and still on the table a future version of the ball comes out of A and hits B on its path, and knocks the current version of the ball into B, sending it back in time to come out at A and hit the previous version of the ball into B.
> 
> You hit the nail on the head though, it's certainly INTERESTING. It's particularly cool that in 2007 MiB, AS FLocke (who he could only impersonate since they already brought Locke's body back to the island), tells Richard to tell RealLocke that after he bounces to the past he should go off island (so he can die so he can be brought back to the island so that MiB can even look like FLocke at all, to even be able to do that). No question about it, the result leads to the cause, instead of the cause leading to the result. But that's perfectly ok according to physics.


My cat's breath smells like cat food!


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## Keen (Aug 3, 2009)

philw1776 said:


> I'm referring to that same dagger that MiB gave Ricardo to kill Jacob in the 1800s


I know, the problem was you're implying there's something special about that dagger that allows it to hurt Jacob and Smokey, when we know regular daggers can hurt Jacob.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

jkeegan said:


> As had been speculated in another thread, I think that what Ben did ALLOWED the smoke monster in, rather than summoning it persay.
> 
> Remember there was a tub of water.. He reached his hand deep into it, and grabbed a plug of some sort.. He pulled it up, the water drained out, and that was enough.
> 
> I'll bet that before he released the water, it filled some network of tunnels.. Once he let it drain, that let smokey flow through that tunnel. That makes even more sense when you see Flock's reaction to being offered a drink by James, which he didn't seem to want to do.. It also jives with James' perception from his conversation with Flock that Flock couldn't just turn to smoke and fly over the water to get to Hydra island (because THAT would be ridiculous!).


Yet Flocke didn't get hurt by falling in the water. I was waiting for something to happen when Jack pushed him in.

The black/white - good/evil bit was around from the pilot. It came up a lot in the first season.

I for one, am not going to be surprised if all the little bits are not resolved. I feel like we were on a voyage that was sort of like the Arabian nights - a story that was added on to and added on to so the reader/viewer was entertained.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

jkeegan said:


> As had been speculated in another thread, I think that what Ben did ALLOWED the smoke monster in, rather than summoning it persay.
> 
> Remember there was a tub of water.. He reached his hand deep into it, and grabbed a plug of some sort.. He pulled it up, the water drained out, and that was enough.
> 
> I'll bet that before he released the water, it filled some network of tunnels.. Once he let it drain, that let smokey flow through that tunnel. That makes even more sense when you see Flock's reaction to being offered a drink by James, which he didn't seem to want to do.. It also jives with James' perception from his conversation with Flock that Flock couldn't just turn to smoke and fly over the water to get to Hydra island (because THAT would be ridiculous!).


This is very interesting. I've been trying to wrap my head around the rules that apply with regard to Flocke and water. I agree that Ben probably just drained the water, clearing the way for Flocke to come in. I hadn't caught, though, that there was an instance where James offered Flocke a drink and Flocke meaningfully declined. Have we never seen Flocke take a drink (from a canteen/water bottle, etc?) If not, it adds another layer to the Jacob/MIB scene where Jacob gives MIB the corked flask in almost a taunting way.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

Steveknj said:


> Yes, I thought that, which is why I thought it was a bit strange. They've spoken Korean exclusively through many episodes, especially early in the series (and the one flash sideways this year).


Didn't Jin say "I'll never leave you" (or something like that) in Korean in the last moments(?) of their lives?


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

betts4 said:


> Yet Flocke didn't get hurt by falling in the water. I was waiting for something to happen when Jack pushed him in.


It did look to me like he struggled a bit getting up on the pier, as if he was fatigued by being in the water .... but there certainly didn't appear to be any significant or permanent delerious effects.

Exposure to water could have some other unseen consequence, like affecting his ability to transform into Smoky or to unlock and remove shackles using the Jedi Mind Trick.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

astrohip said:


> I have faith that the story they are telling will make sense over the entire six years of episodes.
> 
> I don't think Jack is the replacement because (as others have stated, and I agree), I think they are going for closure. Not another cycle, but closure. Jacob's line is key, "It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress."
> 
> ...


Only think I can say is, money talks. For the right amount of money, I wouldn't be surprised if CC/DL did a movie. Brett Favre said he was retiring too, and it was final (and he came back twice!!)


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

betts4 said:


> Yet Flocke didn't get hurt by falling in the water. I was waiting for something to happen when Jack pushed him in.


I expected something too, but not seeing anything special happen, we learned something.. We learned that either he can't change to smoke when he's in the water (but he can stay in Locke form), or maybe that he lied to James to make him think there was something bad about water to him so that James would feel that it was even possible to hatch a plan to steal the sub.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> Only think I can say is, money talks. For the right amount of money, I wouldn't be surprised if CC/DL did a movie. Brett Favre said he was retiring too, and it was final (and he came back twice!!)


One difference is that when Bret retired, there was nothing else for him to do that was as exciting as being a QB. So he went back to being a QB.

CC/DL are already working on their next project. They can create as many new concepts/pilots as their imagination allows--individually or together. So they can "retire from LOST" and still pursue their creativity, their passion. Bret couldn't.

Plus... no one believed Bret, and CC/DL have never given us any reason to not believe them.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

By the way, the water / MiB thing would fit in really well with the whole Wizard of Oz mythology, since Dorothy threw water at the Wicked Witch of the West, who being made of brown sugar, melted. All of the witches henchmen, instead of being mad at Dorothy, were all happy that they were now "free". (That's what MiB suggested that Bram & friends should have felt now that Jacob was dead)


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## Rinkdog (Dec 21, 2005)

The one thing no one has discussed is the sub is now gone and so is the pilot for the plane.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

Rinkdog said:


> The one thing no one has discussed is the sub is now gone and so is the pilot for the plane.


Which to my way of thinking, puts an end to the second major story arc of this final season - the first being the events at the Temple (i.e., FLocke v. Dogen and crew), and the second being FLocke's Pied Piper attempt to get the Losties/candidates to the plane/sub and kill them (which until this episode, we as viewers also had to consider a possible Losties' island exit).

Now that the sub and plane are useless for leaving the island (well, never say never, this is Lost after all) and any notions that FLocke might not be an evil force have gone up in smoke (heh), we're embarking on another, and presumably the final, story arc - the denouement (or, I think, Jacob v. FLocke).


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## Supfreak26 (Dec 12, 2003)

Maybe MIB's aversion to water is just another way of showing us that he's trapped on the island. He can't turn into smoke and fly over it. He can't swim in it for long without suffering ill effects (still unkown to us.) So the ocean acts as the prison bars to his cell.

Although that's pointless if he can't leave unless all of the candidates are dead or with him.


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## Roadblock (Apr 5, 2006)

Steveknj said:


> The problem I have with that whole scenario, is, what was the previous 5 years all about? Why did we even need to sit through 5 years of Others, and Ben being the baddie, and Dharma (where does Widmore and Dharma fit into this scenario?) and whatever else. Right now, that's the problem I have with this whole MIB vs. Jacob scenario. I've said it in other threads that I'm feeling that, while I spent 5 years enjoying the show, most of it was really pretty meaningless in the scheme of the whole thing. It's like a big Sawyer con on everyone who stuck with the show all this time.


+1. The show's still entertaining this season, but for me it's like watching the end of The X-Files, a convoluted attempt to answer too many questions.



jkeegan said:


> The main story line about good-vs-evil, Jacob-vs-MiB, has been in there since the very beginning. We just haven't been told *any* details about that until now, *after lots of misleading and pointless side plots*.


FYP. How can it be called the main story line when only a miniscule portion of it was shown in the early seasons? Again, I like the show. It's better than most of the crap on TV. But I don't buy that it's all been planned out from the beginning.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Shaunnick said:


> ...Going forward the survivors will have to be _*weary*_ not of the smoke monster (not directly, anyway) but of anyone else he might weasel into doing his dirty work, including the other candidates.


I think you meant "leary" or "wary". "Weary" means they were exhausted. 



thenightfly42 said:


> Which would indicate that Sun was the Candidate? Not that it matters anymore.


What if the Kwon's child is the Kwon candidate? 
And Aaron was supposed to be more significant, wasn't he?
Same with Walt. 
Alas, it would seem that the children of LOST are a neglected group.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

> How can it be called the main story line when only a miniscule portion of it was shown in the early seasons?


Have you been paying attention? Jacob and MiB's main struggle has been that MiB believes people always fight and destroy and that their very nature is to be corrupt. Jacob disagrees. So Jacob brings people to the island, to show MiB that some people are good.

THE CHARACTERS WE'VE BEEN WATCHING SINCE SEASON ONE ARE THOSE PEOPLE!!! The show has always been about them.. We just didn't know why they were there. THIS IS WHY. Since season one we've watched characters struggle between good and evil.. The entire time! There's nothing "new" here except the reveal of the secret - that they're actually there for a reason!

The battle between good and evil in ALL of these characters hasn't Bern just shown a "miniscule" part of the time - it's permeated the entire show! All we know now is that their lives and struggles were showcased for more than just us the audience - but also for MiB. And we've seen MiB - the smoke monster - since the pilot epiosode of the series!! They've talked about Jacob since season 2!

Seriously, pay attention more. And don't go "fixing" my posts, thank you very much - they don't need fixing.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> Have you been paying attention? Jacob and MiB's main struggle has been that MiB believes people always fight and destroy and that their very nature is to be corrupt. Jacob disagrees. So Jacob brings people to the island, to show MiB that some people are good.
> 
> THE CHARACTERS WE'VE BEEN WATCHING SINCE SEASON ONE ARE THOSE PEOPLE!!! The show has always been about them.. We just didn't know why they were there. THIS IS WHY. Since season one we've watched characters struggle between good and evil.. The entire time! There's nothing "new" here except the reveal of the secret - that they're actually there for a reason!
> 
> ...


Sorry, but I disagree. While the main characters may have been struggling with good vs. evil from the beginning, the viewers were watching a mystery where the mysterious elements included polar bears, 1970s communal scientific organizations, hidden bunkers, mysterious natives, strange electromagnetic properties, Islands that can move in time and space, etc. All of these elements were intriguing and interesting and seemed to be integral to the overarching mystery. Now, they're suddenly going to tell us that, while all of that may have been fun, none of it had anything to do with the ultimate resolution of the mystery. If that's what happens, I call BS.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

> ALL of these characters hasn't *Bern *just shown a


Keegan, did you type that out on a Droid? I can't stand when it spell checks like that, haha. My text messages are always confusing.

I'm in the middle of this argument. I think the show has always been about good and evil, and this is the mythology behind that, but I think it's crazy to think that every single details was planned out forever. Like mentioned, Walt was always this huge piece, but turned out for no reason. Aaron might still be "the key to everything" as was alluded, but I doubt it. Stuff like who exactly the Others are and the extent of their operation ("I thought you were on assignment in Canada"), etc. There are plenty of things that don't add up or didn't go anywhere but it happens.

I think the major framework of the mythology (what we're seeing now) was always there. Maybe not when they wrote the pilot but definitely from the beginning.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Every single detail? Nope. The big picture details? Yes.

Locke: "There are two sides. One black, one white."

You can deny it all you want, but this has been there from the beginning.

Greg


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

gchance said:


> Every single detail? Nope. The big picture details? Yes.
> 
> Locke: "There are two sides. One black, one white."
> 
> ...


Of course the struggle between good and evil has been a theme from the beginning. But if we get to the end and it turns out that Dharma and The Others and the Temple and Jughead and pushing the button and the blast door map, etc., etc., etc. was just a waste of time and had nothing to do with the Jacob vs. MiB story, then that will be pretty lame, especially if DL/CC knew about Jacob/MiB way back at the beginning.


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## unixadm (Jan 1, 2001)

jkeegan said:


> ...
> 
> THE CHARACTERS WE'VE BEEN WATCHING SINCE SEASON ONE ARE THOSE PEOPLE!!! The show has always been about them.. We just didn't know why they were there. THIS IS WHY. Since season one we've watched characters struggle between good and evil.. The entire time! There's nothing "new" here except the reveal of the secret - that they're actually there for a reason!
> 
> ...


I agree....the entire series has been about the people of Oceanic flight 815, what brought them to the island and what their purpose was there....there were conflicts with the Others, with Ben, then with people of the Darma Initiative after they started moving in time....their interactions, decisions and actions all changed what was happening to them on the island.

Now we are seeing that there was a bigger picture..one that was alluded to all through the years.....and that the survivors of Oceanic flight 815 were pawns in a game between Jacob and MiB...(or in my guess, that they were chose as candidates to replace Jacob to keep MiB jailed on the island). We've wanted to know why they were there and now we are finding out. This doesn't diminish the storyline or what we've invested our time in watching all these years. In the end, THESE people, the ones we've been watching from the beginning, are the most important people in the big story....since one of them WILL become Jacob's replacement and end the game. And looking at this season, hopefully the rest will then go and live in their original reality (what we are calling the "sideways" timeline) while the "chosen" ends up fulfilling their destiny of staying on the island.


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## Roadblock (Apr 5, 2006)

jkeegan said:


> THE CHARACTERS WE'VE BEEN WATCHING SINCE SEASON ONE ARE THOSE PEOPLE!!! The show has always been about them.. We just didn't know why they were there. THIS IS WHY. Since season one we've watched characters struggle between good and evil.. The entire time! There's nothing "new" here except the reveal of the secret - that they're actually there for a reason!
> 
> Seriously, pay attention more.


My issue is not so much with the current storyline, but with the numerous misleads and side stories from previous seasons that were created to make the island mysterious, but in the end meant absolutely nothing. When I go back and watch previous seasons, it will take away much of the excitement to know that those things serve no purpose. Sure, I enjoyed the ride for the most part, but I can't agree that this is a grand resolution to the series that ties it all together.

I paid plenty of attention to these apparently meaningless things:



DevdogAZ said:


> polar bears, 1970s communal scientific organizations, hidden bunkers, mysterious natives, strange electromagnetic properties, Islands that can move in time and space, etc.


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## Fl_Gulfer (May 27, 2005)

http://www.tvshark.com/read/?art=arc5123 I think they extended to get more commercials for the cash. Just make sure you have enough time on your DVR's to get the whole show +...


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Of course the struggle between good and evil has been a theme from the beginning. But if we get to the end and it turns out that Dharma and The Others and the Temple and Jughead and pushing the button and the blast door map, etc., etc., etc. was just a waste of time and had nothing to do with the Jacob vs. MiB story,* then that will be pretty lame*, especially if DL/CC knew about Jacob/MiB way back at the beginning.


I'm with you.

I'm hoping for much better.


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## T-Wolves (Aug 22, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> Of course the struggle between good and evil has been a theme from the beginning. But if we get to the end and it turns out that Dharma and The Others and the Temple and Jughead and pushing the button and the blast door map, etc., etc., etc. was just a waste of time and had nothing to do with the Jacob vs. MiB story, then that will be pretty lame, especially if DL/CC knew about Jacob/MiB way back at the beginning.


For me, there are 3 mysteries:
1. *What *is the Island?
2. What is the Jacob vs. MIB story?
3. How will the above 2 answers tie into a satisfactory resolution to the series?

My worry is that we will get resolution to the Jacob/MIB story, but what the Island is and how/why it got that way will remain a mystery (paving the way for future movies/shows/etc.).

FYI, my copy of Entertainment Weekly (titled "THE END OF LOST") arrived in the mail today. It has a 37-page section (including ads) devoted solely to Lost. Some really good articles in there, and no real blatant spoilers, although if you read between the lines, you can make some guesses about themes in the finale. They supposedly printed 10 different covers for this issue -- mine had Hurley on the front. The best article is a multi-pager about how the pilot got made, with comments from JJ Abrams, Damon Lindelof, and several of the cast members. Also a great article (and excellent picture!) about (and with comments by) some of the cast members killed-off along the way (Boone, Libby, Naomi, Ethan, Michael, Arzt, Rousseau, Charlotte, and Juliet).

Some interesting stuff from the mag -- no big revelations, but I'll spoiler-tag it all anyway. 
Old friends returning:


Spoiler



Boone, Shannon, and Juliet will be seen again.


Matthew Fox says of the finale:


Spoiler



"I think it's beautiful. If we all did our jobs right, I really feel it's going to be terribly sad, but at the same time be really cathartic and full of hope. It has the potential to be really profound. I will say this: It's not going to be what anybody thinks it is. I know a lot of people have written a lot of theories about how this will all end --- and I'm pretty sure nobody guessed it."


Josh Holloway says of the finale:


Spoiler



"My original theory was that the Island was purgatory. Now I don't know. I know I _think _something, but I'm still trying to think through what it is I think I know!"


Regarding the deaths in the most recent episode:


Spoiler



No mention is made of Lapidus (pilot) being dead. The other names (Sayid, Jin, & Sun) are mentioned, but not "Chesty." An odd omission, IMO.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

MickeS said:


> Depends on if the others there are just coming for the social aspect, or to actually watch the show.  I'm with you though, I'd rather watch it home alone...


Discuss together; watch alone.



Philosofy said:


> The more I think about it, I think Hurley will be the big hero. The main purpose of Jack and Sawyer are to be rivals. Kate is there to provide story tension between those two. That leaves Hurley's purpose. I think MiB will be defeated by Hugo.


Interesting theory. I wonder if that is Jacob's "loophole". Everyone focuses on Jack as the replacement, but Hugo is there to end the game once and for all.



scarpent said:


> So, what if Jack hadn't looked in his pack on the sub right away? If Locke didn't know that Kate would be shot, the bag might have just sat there and... the bomb would not have gone off? Or did Flocke shoot Kate to make sure Jack would go into the sub to help her and look in his pack?


I think Flocke had a hand in Kate getting shot, even if he didn't pull the trigger.



jkeegan said:


> I expected something too, but not seeing anything special happen, we learned something.. We learned that either he can't change to smoke when he's in the water (but he can stay in Locke form), or maybe that he lied to James to make him think there was something bad about water to him so that James would feel that it was even possible to hatch a plan to steal the sub.


If he can't turn into Smokey when in the water, then I think it might also apply even when he's wet. Perhaps Sawyer had that same thought, so even though Flocke might have been able to quickly climb out of the water, Sawyer figured he still wouldn't be able to turn into Smokey.


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## mulscully (May 31, 2003)

I like the idea of Hurley being the wildcard that's going to end the cycle, Desmond will play a part of course, but I think Hurley will be the cycle ender.


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## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

why has Jacob been looking for a successor? Just in case MiB found a loophole? If he says it only ends once, does he really need a successor?


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## tgrim1 (Sep 11, 2006)

mulscully said:


> I like the idea of Hurley being the wildcard that's going to end the cycle, Desmond will play a part of course, but I think Hurley will be the cycle ender.


I think so too. Hurley is still presumably still carrying around a bag of Jacob ashes for some reason, although I dont know how effective they are wet.


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## T-Wolves (Aug 22, 2000)

My original theory this season was that Hurley would save the world by proving to the extraterrestrials (that originally left Jacob/MIB here) that mankind was worthy of saving. Hurley is the one truly "good" candidate, so it seemed that if it came down to proving that "man is good," Hurley would be your guy. 

I've given up on the extraterrestrial storyline, and the Island being their spaceship (that can't leave until humans are off of it), but I think Hurley is still going to be a big part of the end-game.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

BitbyBlit said:


> Interesting theory. I wonder if that is Jacob's "loophole". Everyone focuses on Jack as the replacement, but Hugo is there to end the game once and for all.


Wouldn't it be nice if all the main characters get good lives off the island and Widmore, who has lusted for the island for years, gets stuck guarding MiB "ab aeterno"?



BitbyBlit said:


> If he can't turn into Smokey when in the water, then I think it might also apply even when he's wet. Perhaps Sawyer had that same thought, so even though Flocke might have been able to quickly climb out of the water, Sawyer figured he still wouldn't be able to turn into Smokey.


I believe Smokey has been flying around during rainstorms. But I also think the characters thought that pushing Flocke into the water would slow him down from turning into Smokey..


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Ooh, maybe they left a hint of that earlier..

Maybe the two guys in the ice cold frozen outpost playing chess is a hint that that's what Jacob and MiB are - two guys way away from their home, stationed on an "outpost" on earth (the island), for a loooong time...


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Btw another reason that I think MiB wouldn't want to be in water as smokey is because he's short out.. He's got electricity flowing/crackling through him.

Humans? We're waterproof.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

T-Wolves said:


> My original theory this season was that Hurley would save the world by proving to the extraterrestrials (that originally left Jacob/MIB here) that mankind was worthy of saving. Hurley is the one truly "good" candidate, so it seemed that if it came down to proving that "man is good," Hurley would be your guy.
> 
> I've given up on the extraterrestrial storyline, and the Island being their spaceship (that can't leave until humans are off of it), but I think Hurley is still going to be a big part of the end-game.


I'm sure this has been discussed before, but the whole thing with Hurley reminds me of the Book of Job, with Hurley as Job. He's basically a guy that has suffered through a series of very unfortunate faith-testing events. Remember all his bad luck stemming from the numbers? It was like he was repeatedly being tested. We've kind of moved away from that, but it was a central aspect to the development of his character. My recollection is that the Book of Job begins with a conversation between God and Satan (reminiscent of the beachside conversation between Jacob and MIB at the end of Season 5, perhaps?) regarding Job, a man of great wealth. He's stripped of his wealth and health as a test, but ultimately proves himself and winds up rewarded with great longevity -- he lives on for another 140 years. (Actually, this makes me think more that Richard, not Hurley, is the Job archetype. Isn't 140 years the length of time Richard has lived on?)


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## Keen (Aug 3, 2009)

danterner said:


> (Actually, this makes me think more that Richard, not Hurley, is the Job archetype. Isn't 140 years the length of time Richard has lived on?)


Yeah, as of 2007, he's been on the island for 140 years.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

T-Wolves said:


> My original theory this season was that Hurley would save the world by proving to the extraterrestrials (that originally left Jacob/MIB here) that mankind was worthy of saving. Hurley is the one truly "good" candidate, so it seemed that if it came down to proving that "man is good," Hurley would be your guy.
> 
> I've given up on the extraterrestrial storyline, and the Island being their spaceship (that can't leave until humans are off of it), but I think Hurley is still going to be a big part of the end-game.


Perhaps the island is something akin to the monoliths in 2001: A Space Odyssey -- an extraterrestrial "probe" that tests when the earth/mankind is ready for the next step of intergalactic interaction. When mankind puts an end to the Jacob/MIB game by showing goodness, it is ready.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Supfreak26 said:


> Maybe *MIB's aversion to water *is just another way of showing us that he's trapped on the island.


My theory was therefore MiB was French, but when he smashed the bottle of wine that Jake gave him, I abandoned it.

Wait...maybe it was inferior California wine...


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

What seems to be unique about Lost is that here we are, years later, waiting for the finale, and nobody knows what its all about. In most stories, you wonder if something will happen (will Frodo destroy the ring?), or you get thrown a loop with something unexpected (The Sixth Sense.) But I can't think of any other story, book, movie, or TV show where, near the end, you still have no idea what the story is all about, but are still engaged in the story.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

BitbyBlit said:


> I think Flocke had a hand in Kate getting shot, even if he didn't pull the trigger.


We've seen Fake Locke display minor telekinetic abilities (when he removed Ben's shackle).

It's not that much of a leap to think that he might have given an already airborne bullet a minor TK shove into Kate's shoulder, knowing Jack would rush to her side.


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

Philosofy said:


> What seems to be unique about Lost is that here we are, years later, waiting for the finale, and nobody knows what its all about. In most stories, you wonder if something will happen (will Frodo destroy the ring?), or you get thrown a loop with something unexpected (The Sixth Sense.) But I can't think of any other story, book, movie, or TV show where, near the end, you still have no idea what the story is all about, but are still engaged in the story.


This is exactly the aspect of the show that has intrigued me the most. I find it absolutely amazing that six years down the line, we're still guessing on what happens next instead of bemoaning repeated plotlines or whatever. I think this is what will ensure LOST going down into history as one of the classics and one that broke many narrative molds on television.


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

T-Wolves said:


> For me, there are 3 mysteries:
> 1. *What *is the Island?
> 2. What is the Jacob vs. MIB story?
> 3. How will the above 2 answers tie into a satisfactory resolution to the series?
> ...


I don't think the island, what it is, is so entirely important that it needs to be explained nor can it ever really be explained to anybody's satisfaction. I'm satisfied that it is just a location where all of this stuff is going down.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

tewcewl said:


> This is exactly the aspect of the show that has intrigued me the most. I find it absolutely amazing that six years down the line, we're still guessing on what happens next instead of bemoaning repeated plotlines or whatever. I think this is what will ensure LOST going down into history as one of the classics and one that broke many narrative molds on television.


Therein lies the problem as well. I think the reality is that no show will ever rival the complexity/insanity/awesomeness of Lost because Lost has already done it. I just can't see anything else being so intricate and layered and innovative in the way Lost has done. Like mentioned, six years in and no complaints over constantly rehashing plot lines, very few cliches, the height of "serial" TV. I find most other stuff simply isn't as interesting.

Believe me, I know the show has had problems, it's not perfect. But very few shows have done what they've done, and I don't think any will in the future (especially seeing the kind of garbage that rolls out each season).


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## vman (Feb 9, 2001)

jkeegan said:


> Btw another reason that I think MiB wouldn't want to be in water as smokey is because he's short out.. He's got electricity flowing/crackling through him.
> 
> Humans? We're waterproof.


Tell that to Jin and Sun!


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

vman said:


> Tell that to Jin and Sun!


I've had a really busy week and I kid you not I was sitting at work today (almost four days later) and out of nowhere I was just like "wait did they seriously kill Jin, Sun, AND Sayid at one time? I don't think it actually registered. I don't know if I've ever seen a show where 3 original, huge characters get killed in one scene.

I think I'm kind of pissed about it. I've always liked all three of them and wanted them to make it til the very end. I really wish Jin survived because it would make the coming fight that much more intense. Everyone currently alive lost friends, sure, but if Jin survived that **** would be 1000 times more personal. Plus they could have him return to Ji-Yeon. Oh well. I was really hoping for Sayid to turn good and kick some MIB ass though.

Also I've seen some talk in here that Locke might have had a hand in Kate's shooting--I think that would be retarded for a lot of reason, but I just re-watched the scene and there's no way. Jack pushes Locke in the water, Kate turns around to see what happened and BAM. MIB is under water.

I'm chalking him giving the bomb to Jack and expecting him to get on the sub as one of those things the writers had to do to make the scene work. It's not logical, it's not calculating, it just is.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

goMO said:


> why has Jacob been looking for a successor? Just in case MiB found a loophole? If he says it only ends once, does he really need a successor?


The whole idea of a replacement can very well be Jacob's misdirection to MiB. While MiB is furiously trying to get all the remaining candidates killed off, in order to carry out _his_ loophole, Jacob has found _another_ loophole that ends the game, rather than prolonging it.


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

mrdazzo7 said:


> Therein lies the problem as well. I think the reality is that no show will ever rival the complexity/insanity/awesomeness of Lost because Lost has already done it. I just can't see anything else being so intricate and layered and innovative in the way Lost has done. Like mentioned, six years in and no complaints over constantly rehashing plot lines, very few cliches, the height of "serial" TV. I find most other stuff simply isn't as interesting.
> 
> Believe me, I know the show has had problems, it's not perfect. But very few shows have done what they've done, and I don't think any will in the future (especially seeing the kind of garbage that rolls out each season).


I wouldn't be too quick to say that. You know that network executives are chomping at the bit right now to find the next Lost, and now that it's been proven a show like this can work, and that the television audience is "smart enough" to follow this kind of show, they will be greenlighting anything and everything. Sure, there will be more misses than hits along the way. And let's not forget all the very talented writers out there who I'm sure are chomping at the bit to become the next Darlton.

It's kind of like 15 years ago saying there would never be another Michael Jordan. Now we have Lebron. Why is Lebron so great? Because he had MJ as inspiration. Same reason why there (could be) another Lost in our future. I can't wait.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

jking said:


> I wouldn't be too quick to say that. You know that network executives are chomping at the bit right now to find the next Lost, and now that it's been proven a show like this can work, and that the television audience is "smart enough" to follow this kind of show, they will be greenlighting anything and everything. Sure, there will be more misses than hits along the way. And let's not forget all the very talented writers out there who I'm sure are chomping at the bit to become the next Darlton.


Unfortunately for us, that's not likely to happen. The networks have been looking for that "next Lost" for six years, and they continue to fail. I think they've mostly concluded that they can make more money from reality shows and cookie-cutter procedurals. Every attempt to duplicate the cerebral nature of Lost has fallen flat on its face.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Unfortunately for us, that's not likely to happen. The networks have been looking for that "next Lost" for six years, and they continue to fail. I think they've mostly concluded that they can make more money from reality shows and cookie-cutter procedurals. Every attempt to duplicate the cerebral nature of Lost has fallen flat on its face.


Yes, ABC's _Flash Forward _comes to mind. Poorly done.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

The big problem is they keep trying to find the next Lost. But Lost wasn't the next anything; if they want to find the next Lost, they have to find something that is entirely its own thing. And that goes against Hollywood's instincts, since statistically things that are their own thing tend to suck even more often than things that are the next something else. And Hollywood is all about maximizing the odds.

(The guy who green-lit Lost at ABC even got fired.)


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

Also the fact is that if Lost did the numbers from season five and six in season one, it probably wouldn't have seen multiple seasons. They got lucky because they started out as a main-stream mystery show, and because of that were able to get huge numbers early on. But you can see that as the show got crazier, the numbers more or less plummeted, but they had locked in the fan base by that point.

The problem now is that Lost has already done what it did, so no new show for a while is gonna have the same effect. Now when people tune into a serialized show, they're not patient and not showing up in big numbers because if it's not absolutely mind-blowing in the first episode, people tune out. Look at V--if I remember right it had the biggest premiere out of every new show in the fall--that's a big deal. Now they're lucky if they average six million viewers, which is not enough to justify what I'm sure is a huge budget. 

It sucks because after shows like Lost and 24, regular TV just isn't as engaging/interesting. I have no interest in any hour-long show that wraps up the story and has no real character development (Criminal Minds being the exception), and I pretty much despise anything "reality". Those two shows ending at the same time definitely sucks .


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Lost was the next X Files. A show with plenty of mystery and back story, but Lost took it further by peeling back layers of mystery, like an onion, whereas X Files had no plan, just mystery upon mystery, until the viewers gave up on ever finding anything out.

The funny thing is, we had the next Lost. It was called Heroes, and the first season was awesome. Then the network suits starting calling the story, and it went downhill _real_ fast.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

mrdazzo7 said:


> Also the fact is that if Lost did the numbers from season five and six in season one, it probably wouldn't have seen multiple seasons. They got lucky because they started out as a main-stream mystery show, and because of that were able to get huge numbers early on. But you can see that as the show got crazier, the numbers more or less plummeted, but they had locked in the fan base by that point.


I disagree with this and think this is a big misconception. While it's true that LOST's ratings have fallen and it doesn't draw the same number of viewers as it did in the first couple of seasons, it's still one of the highest rated shows on TV, and if it debuted this year with the numbers it's currently getting, it would definitely have been renewed. For it's last new episode (before this one), it was the 8th highest rated show of the week, and 5th highest among scripted shows. I think when this week's numbers are all finalized, even with May sweeps starting and all the other shows being new, you'll see that LOST is still one of the top 10 scripted shows on TV in terms of ratings.


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

We finally watched this tonight and I am still in awe. Complete and utter awe.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

Paperboy2003 said:


> Of course there's no WAY anyone would survive four sticks of C4 in an enclosed tube, but that's for another time


Like, never. This is not a series that can survive any rational scrutiny. Yet here we are. Here, beyond belief, am I. Must be something good going on here, beneath the surface (so to speak), profound. Yeah, that's the ticket!


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## T-Wolves (Aug 22, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> Unfortunately for us, that's not likely to happen. The networks have been looking for that "next Lost" for six years, and they continue to fail. ...


What about *Fringe*? It does tend to have self-contained episodes, but it has an excellent "big-picture" story as well. And they really seem to be hitting their stride with that show lately. That series has the same "what the heck is going on here?" factor as Lost does for occasional viewers.

I think *Flash Forward* probably would've done quite well if that show had a better writing staff, and maybe a few better casting choices. Steve Taylor from *Coupling* as a quantum physicist? Really?


FWIW, I still love "Law & Order."


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

But Fringe isn't exactly a hit. In fact, because of its bad ratings there was some surprise that it was renewed for Season 3.

To be the next Lost, a show would have to be a cultural phenomenon, not just another quirky show a few geeks are into.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But Fringe isn't exactly a hit. In fact, because of its bad ratings there was some surprise that it was renewed for Season 3.
> 
> To be the next Lost, a show would have to be a cultural phenomenon, not just another quirky show a few geeks are into.


Lost became a cultural phenomenon QUICKLY, like within the first few episodes. It's going to be a long time before that happens again.

Greg


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

I've realized that of all of my favorite shows I've ever watched, they ALL hit it out of the park with the pilot. Lost, The Sopranos, The West Wing, The Incredible Hulk, etc. Even Alias (although they really dropped the ball).

Sure, there have been many other shows, some of which I've liked, which didn't have great pilots. But in general, they never grew to be my favorites.

That's the writer's best chance to sell their show. If they can't do it with the pilot, they won't with a regular old episode that has tighter time constraints, etc.


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## T-Wolves (Aug 22, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But Fringe isn't exactly a hit. In fact, because of its bad ratings there was some surprise that it was renewed for Season 3.
> 
> To be the next Lost, a show would have to be a cultural phenomenon, not just another quirky show a few geeks are into.


Yes, agreed. But among the shows currently on the air (that I am aware of), *Fringe *seems to be the best *candidate *for a "Lost-like" show.



jkeegan said:


> I've realized that of all of my favorite shows I've ever watched, they ALL hit it out of the park with the pilot. Lost, The Sopranos, The West Wing, The Incredible Hulk, etc. Even Alias (although they really dropped the ball). ...


I hated the *Sports Night* pilot, but the series is one of my all-time favorites. I've learned to give a new show 2-3 episodes before writing it off. One example this year is *Parenthood* -- I couldn't stand the pilot, but I gave it a few more episodes because it had Erika Christensen and Peter Krause. And now I love the show, even though I am not a parent myself.

Then again, I've watched all 3 episodes of Alyssa Milano's *Romantically Challenged* this season, and I don't think I'll be able to force myself to watch another.

I do agree that the pilot is the best shot at grabbing an audience and making them want to stick around for more.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Unfortunately for us, that's not likely to happen. The networks have been looking for that "next Lost" for six years, and they continue to fail. I think they've mostly concluded that they can make more money from reality shows and cookie-cutter procedurals. Every attempt to duplicate the cerebral nature of Lost has fallen flat on its face.


I really thought Journeyman had potential to be that next slow smoldering hit, it mixed the mystery and science, and then added a HUGE chunk of romance, all while being pretty accessible with it's mystery of the week.

yeah.. I know that didn't turn out so well, I'm still missing it..

Diane


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## macrho (Nov 19, 2005)

as long as this show doesn't pull a fade to black sopranos nonsense and has some conclusion i'll be happy

my guess -- something to have a movie conclusion


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

dianebrat said:


> I really thought Journeyman had potential to be that next slow smoldering hit, it mixed the mystery and science, and then added a HUGE chunk of romance, all while being pretty accessible with it's mystery of the week.


I think the big problem with Journeyman was that it didn't have the Big Hook. While Lost turned out to be almost the exact opposite of high concept, seeming that way at first (airplane crash survivors stranded on a weird island) piqued people's interest, and of course opening with one of the best, most gripping half-hours in television history.

Journeyman had a small hook, which was cool but not the kind of thing that's going to get a stranglehold on the American imagination right off the bat. And these days, that's what you really need...shows live or die based on the first episode or two. Which isn't fair, but it is what it is.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

dianebrat said:


> I really thought Journeyman had potential to be that next slow smoldering hit, it mixed the mystery and science, and then added a HUGE chunk of romance, all while being pretty accessible with it's mystery of the week.
> 
> yeah.. I know that didn't turn out so well, I'm still missing it..
> 
> Diane


I loved Journeyman, and I love Fringe, and I'm still watching FlashForward. All of these shows tried to follow LOST in the cerebral category. Problem is, to really be "the next LOST," the show has to be very successful, and for one reason or another, none of these shows are. Journeyman was great, but nobody watched. Fringe is pretty good, occasionally great, but relatively few people watch it. FlashForward started brilliantly and then went south in a hurry, and nobody is watching it anymore.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Well while I'm lamenting the demise of LOST and the low probability of anything equaling its imagination, I read this stupidly hilarious blog "Never Seen LOST" written by a guy who like lying Ben Linus really has seen LOST's prior seasons.

http://neverseenlost.wordpress.com/2010/05/05/episode-14-of-the-final-season-of-lost/

Waiting for Tuesday night...


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

philw1776 said:


> Well while I'm lamenting the demise of LOST and the low probability of anything equaling its imagination, I read this stupidly hilarious blog "Never Seen LOST" written by a guy who like lying Ben Linus really has seen LOST's prior seasons.
> 
> http://neverseenlost.wordpress.com/2010/05/05/episode-14-of-the-final-season-of-lost/
> 
> Waiting for Tuesday night...


that blog is great, couldn't stop laughing. my favorite part:



> Lucky for him these nerds learned how to shoot from Stormtroopers and cant hit anything.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

_The Soup_ compares _V_ vs. _Lost_.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

balboa dave said:


> _The Soup_ compares _V_ vs. _Lost_.


I caught that on Friday, though it was hilarious. I wonder how long it took to compile all of those clips from both shows--look like they came from a variety of episodes.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

jkeegan said:


> I've realized that of all of my favorite shows I've ever watched, they ALL hit it out of the park with the pilot. Lost, The Sopranos, The West Wing, The Incredible Hulk, etc. Even Alias (although they really dropped the ball).


Alias had my favorite pilot of all time. The problem was they weren't getting enough viewers, and so they dumbed it down to a typical spy show in an attempt to attract more. But that managed only to alienate a good portion of the few fans that there were.

I think if Alias came out now it might have had a better chance because of the Web, and they might have been able to maintain the pace of the first couple seasons.

The writers of Lost were smart in realizing that most people don't like feeling lost while watching shows. So they tricked people into thinking the show was mostly straightforward with a hint of mystery. Then, once people were sucked in, they amped up the mystery and plotlines by several orders of magnitude.

I'm hoping that the writers have an ending that is satisfactory for most people because then perhaps people will be more willing to watch other more complex shows in the future, which will encourage more of those types of shows to be written. If the ending leaves most people even more confused than when they started watching, then that will instead turn people off to these types of shows.

Either way, it is going to be a game-changer. Hopefully that change is for good.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> I've realized that of all of my favorite shows I've ever watched, they ALL hit it out of the park with the pilot. Lost, The Sopranos, The West Wing, The Incredible Hulk, etc. Even Alias (although they really dropped the ball).


Wow, thanks for mentioning The Incredible Hulk, I've said for many years that its pilot was one of the best I'd ever seen. It really was a pilot (as opposed to being just the first episode of a series), originally just a 2-hour movie that they'd hoped would be picked up as a series, which it was.

The first hour or even more didn't show the Hulk at all, it set up the situation where David Banner couldn't save his wife, his frustration, and his research into people exhibiting great strength. One scene in particular I remember is sort of a roundtable with people who'd been in that situation, explaining how they felt, why they felt that way, and David Banner taking notes.

Anyway, thanks. 

Greg


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

gchance said:


> Wow, thanks for mentioning The Incredible Hulk, I've said for many years that its pilot was one of the best I'd ever seen. It really was a pilot (as opposed to being just the first episode of a series), originally just a 2-hour movie that they'd hoped would be picked up as a series, which it was.
> 
> The first hour or even more didn't show the Hulk at all, it set up the situation where David Banner couldn't save his wife, his frustration, and his research into people exhibiting great strength. One scene in particular I remember is sort of a roundtable with people who'd been in that situation, explaining how they felt, why they felt that way, and David Banner taking notes.
> 
> ...


My favorite sequence of that entire pilot was right after David irradiated himself.. He went to try lifting a gurney(sp??) hoping he had more strength, then realized he wasn't any stronger. He was frustrated, walked outside to his car, saw it was raining, and got even more irritated.

For the next 10 or so minutes (it felt that long anyway) the pressure mounted, with the music building up veeeeery slowly, him getting even more and more upset that those people at the roundtable had been able to save loved ones in moments of crisis but he couldn't, etc.

By the time he made it outside in the rain and hurt his hand with the wrench the first time, the audience itself was ready to turn into the Hulk right along with David.

Superbly done.. Absolutely loved it.

Oh.. throw another show on the pile for great pilot episodes - Nowhere Man.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

mrdazzo7 said:


> I caught that on Friday, though it was hilarious. I wonder how long it took to compile all of those clips from both shows--look like they came from a variety of episodes.


They probably use something like a SnapStream - a professional DVR that not only can record TV but also keyword-search closed captions. Their largest can record 50 shows at once, and save 13 years of TV.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Of the shows mentioned here that had the potential to be "the next Lost", I think "Journeyman" was the only one that, ratings and popularity aside, WAS the "new Lost" for me when it came to actual show content. I am still very, very disappointed about its cancellation.


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## vman (Feb 9, 2001)

of course, the counterpoint is Battlestar Galactica, which had an awesome pilot and first couple episodes, before going off a cliff.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

vman said:


> of course, the counterpoint is Battlestar Galactica, which had an awesome pilot and first couple episodes, before going off a cliff.


Right, I'm by no means saying that a great pilot equals a great show. I'm saying that the best shows have had great pilots.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> ... Lost ... open[ed] with one of the best, most gripping half-hours in television history.











A lot of guys agree about the "gripping" ... 



DevdogAZ said:


> I loved Journeyman, and I love Fringe, and I'm still watching FlashForward. All of these shows tried to follow LOST in the cerebral category. Problem is, to really be "the next LOST," the show has to be very successful, and for one reason or another, none of these shows are.


I think it is difficult for any new show to become and maintain cultural phenomenon status while another phenomenon is still playing itself out.

Twin Peaks.
Sopranos.
LOST.
Maybe one needs to be completed before another can emerge.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

DevdogAZ said:


> I loved Journeyman, and I love Fringe, and I'm still watching FlashForward. All of these shows tried to follow LOST in the cerebral category. Problem is, to really be "the next LOST," the show has to be very successful, and for one reason or another, none of these shows are. Journeyman was great, but nobody watched. Fringe is pretty good, occasionally great, but relatively few people watch it. FlashForward started brilliantly and then went south in a hurry, and nobody is watching it anymore.


What's also an issue is that Lost got away with hooking "non-scifi" people into from the word go, but I think the 10-12 million viewers that have died off as the show got more and more sci-fi kind of learned their lesson, and might be reluctant to tune into new serialized shows for fear that they might go the same route (start off mainstream then change). I think lost got away with it but most shows won't.

Also wanted to give a shout out to Alias--The the first two seasons of that show remain some of the best TV I've ever seen. Didn't like 3 or 4, and loved the last half of season five. You could tell that they were in a tricky spot though--leave it convoluted and risk getting no viewers, or try to make it more "accessable" for new viewers. Unfortunately, TV is a business built on ad sales so network shows don't always have the creative freedom they should, which sucks.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

27 hours, 53 minutes left.


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

mrdazzo7 said:


> ...Also wanted to give a shout out to Alias--The the first two seasons of that show remain some of the best TV I've ever seen. Didn't like 3 or 4, and loved the last half of season five...


The Finale was terrible. Not as bad as Enterprise, but very bad indeed. Alias had its ups and downs, but I watched it all, even the finale (wish I hadn't--really!).

I have no doubt that Lost will not suffer this problem. Monday Morning will have a lot of outraged people if it does. The team of C&L will probably have to leave the country!


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Church AV Guy said:


> I have no doubt that Lost will not suffer this problem. Monday Morning will have a lot of outraged people if it does. The team of C&L will probably have to leave the country!


According to EW, C&L will maintain "radio silence" for a while following the show, letting people interpret the ending as they want. It sounded as if they are expecting people to be a bit peeved or disappointed... but no matter how they end it, they would have disappointed many.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

MickeS said:


> According to EW, C&L will maintain "radio silence" for a while following the show, letting people interpret the ending as they want. It sounded as if they are expecting people to be a bit peeved or disappointed... but no matter how they end it, they would have disappointed many.


Exactly. With a show like this, no matter how good the finale is, there will be tens of thousands of people that are disappointed. It's inevitable. There are simply too many unanswered questions and too many loose ends for them to satisfactorily answer everything, and based on some interviews I've read, they're really not going to try. They've said in an interview that the only answer they really owe to the fans is how the flash sideways and the Island timeline fit together.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

The way I see it, C&L just don't want to be clobbered with a million questions. They want the finale to stand on its own, good, bad, or otherwise. I think that's fair.

Greg


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

gchance said:


> The way I see it, C&L just don't want to be clobbered with a million questions. They want the finale to stand on its own, good, bad, or otherwise. I think that's fair.
> 
> Greg


I agree with that 100%. I don't think they'd answer questions regardless of how good/bad the finale is perceived. I'm simply saying that I think they realized a couple of years ago that it would be impossible to satisfactorily explain all the various mysteries they've left open, so they simply decided not to even try with most of them.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

And it's possible that they don't want to put a damper on the conversation. Nothing ends an argument quicker than the writer chiming in!


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

This is easily the most theorized show in the history of television. Even if the ending is perfect, there will be people out there who will be angry, simply because the ending doesn't fit with what THEY THINK the ending should have been.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

I just thought of something:

If you were Hugo, would you buddy-breathe by passing the mouthpiece, or take a big swig of it and tell Kate to "Come and get it"?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

wprager said:


> I just thought of something:
> 
> If you were Hugo, would you buddy-breathe by passing the mouthpiece, or take a big swig of it and tell Kate to "Come and get it"?


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

wprager said:


> I just thought of something:
> 
> If you were Hugo, would you buddy-breathe by passing the mouthpiece, or take a big swig of it and tell Kate to "Come and get it"?


I would let her drown.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

jking said:


> This is easily the most theorized show in the history of television. Even if the ending is perfect, there will be people out there who will be angry, simply because the ending doesn't fit with what THEY THINK the ending should have been.


Oh yes. I agree 100%

No matter what Cruse and Lindeloff have done with the finale, I expect a number of enraged (and in their mind, outraged) people on 11:01 PM Sunday for this exact reason.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

JYoung said:


> Oh yes. I agree 100%
> 
> No matter what Cruse and Lindeloff have done with the finale, I expect a number of enraged (and in their mind, outraged) people on 11:01 PM Sunday for this exact reason.


11:31.


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## Mike Wells (Mar 9, 2000)

C&L have gone into "radio silence" after each season of Lost, so this isn't new. On the podcasts they once said that they want the show to stand on its own as a body of work and that they wouldn't be adding to it after the finale. I came away from that believing that they would NEVER talk about it after the finale. In fact, they will only be doing one more podcast and not one between the last two nights of Lost.


Spoiler



They said that the next-to-last show has events that lead directly into the Finale and that they wouldn't be able to talk about them without talking about the Finale, which they won't do.



I think I would be disappointed in the show if it DID wrap up all of the questions in the finale because that was part of the goodness of lost - the mystery of what was going on.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

When I went to see Iron Man, there was something about a Lost discussion being broadcast at the theater. Anyone know anything about that?


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Philosofy said:


> When I went to see Iron Man, there was something about a Lost discussion being broadcast at the theater. Anyone know anything about that?


Might be this:
http://www.fathomevents.com/OriginalPrograms/event/TimesTalks_LOST.aspx


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Man, only 5 hours left.  And there's only 4.5 hours left..


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Lindelof and Cuse WILL be in the "Jimmy Kimmel Live" special immediately following the finale though... so I guess the radio silence won't begin until after that.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

aindik said:


> Might be this:
> http://www.fathomevents.com/OriginalPrograms/event/TimesTalks_LOST.aspx


That would be kinda interesting... but three days BEFORE the finale seems like bad timing... I would like to hear it three days AFTER...


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

MickeS said:


> Lindelof and Cuse WILL be in the "Jimmy Kimmel Live" special immediately following the finale though... so I guess the radio silence won't begin until after that.


They won't be on his show live. They'll appear in something taped before the finale airs. Which means that, when they tape it, they'll be the only people in the room who will have seen the finale. Which means no specific questions.

I wonder when Kimmel is actually going to do that show. Live at midnight on the east coast is right when the finale is airing on the west coast (where he is). I wonder if they're screening it for him and his live audience on east coast time.


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## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

aindik said:


> They won't be on his show live. They'll appear in something taped before the finale airs. Which means that, when they tape it, they'll be the only people in the room who will have seen the finale. Which means no specific questions.


That taped segment will be taped two days before, on Friday night. They'll be on the show live on that Friday night, too.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

See you all on the other side.. 3 hours 40 minutes left. And after tonight, there'll only be 3 hours 30 minutes left.


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

Mike Wells said:


> I think I would be disappointed in the show if it DID wrap up all of the questions in the finale because that was part of the goodness of lost - the mystery of what was going on.


Who are you?
The new Number Two.
Who is Number One?
You are Number Six.
.
.
.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

jkeegan said:


> See you all on the other side.. 3 hours 40 minutes left. And after tonight, there'll only be 3 hours 30 minutes left.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I disagree with this and think this is a big misconception. While it's true that LOST's ratings have fallen and it doesn't draw the same number of viewers as it did in the first couple of seasons, it's still one of the highest rated shows on TV, and if it debuted this year with the numbers it's currently getting, it would definitely have been renewed. For it's last new episode (before this one), it was the 8th highest rated show of the week, and 5th highest among scripted shows. I think when this week's numbers are all finalized, even with May sweeps starting and all the other shows being new, you'll see that LOST is still one of the top 10 scripted shows on TV in terms of ratings.


Just to follow up on this, the ratings for last week have been compiled, and LOST was the 7th highest rated show among adults 18-49, and the 3rd highest among scripted shows. Glee and The Big Bang Theory were the only scripted shows with higher ratings.


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

LOST has become my favorite show of all time. I'm not sure if there will ever be another show that can replace it for me. I am sad.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

I think it has even replaced The Incredible Hulk in my book, and that's no small feat.

Oh hey look! It's 9:00pm!


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## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

jkeegan said:


> I think it has even replaced The Incredible Hulk in my book, and that's no small feat.
> 
> Oh hey look! It's 9:00pm!


No it's not! It's only 6:51! (Dang west coast...)


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