# Tivo Beta Program?



## joemg (Sep 28, 2011)

is there a way to signup for the tivo beta program? every link i've found seems to be broken when you try and submit the form.

thanks


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## Iluvatar (Jul 22, 2006)

joemg said:


> is there a way to signup for the tivo beta program? every link i've found seems to be broken when you try and submit the form.
> 
> thanks


https://fieldtrials.tivo.com/signup/


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

I wouldn't recommend it. I was a part of it for about 9 months and it ended up being a big joke.


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## PrimeRisk (Dec 16, 2002)

lujan said:


> I wouldn't recommend it. I was a part of it for about 9 months and it ended up being a big joke.


Opinions vary...


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

I wish Tivo would just fix current software bugs instead of wasting resources on customer beta programs.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Resist said:


> I wish Tivo would just fix current software bugs instead of wasting resources on customer beta programs.


How are you going to test the bug fixes?


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## bearda (Dec 7, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> How are you going to test the bug fixes?


It doesn't seem like they tested the software before they shipped, why bother now?


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> How are you going to test the bug fixes?


Maybe Tivo should actual test it themselves.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

bearda said:


> It doesn't seem like they tested the software before they shipped, why bother now?


In a beta only certain issues will show up since there are a limited number of testers. When you open up new software to more users you have more configurations so more issues will show up.

Of course we know from past history there are some bugs that TiVo has no problem never correcting.


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## PrimeRisk (Dec 16, 2002)

Resist said:


> Maybe Tivo should actual test it themselves.


Do you actually think they don't test their software and hardware? Beta programs are essential to exercising different use models, configurations, service providers, and just plain users.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

bearda said:


> It doesn't seem like they tested the software before they shipped, why bother now?


If there's a dispute between management, who want a product shipped yesterday and engineers, who say the product is not ready to ship, who do you think wins?


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## El Gabito (Mar 11, 2004)

Yeah this is pretty standard in the software world. All software ships with a ton of bugs - a percentage of which are known about when shipped. A "perfect" product does not exist and nothing would ever be released if it had to be "perfect" first.


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## PrimeRisk (Dec 16, 2002)

morac said:


> If there's a dispute between management, who want a product shipped yesterday and engineers, who say the product is not ready to ship, who do you think wins?


I think that TiVo is very much about Quality over Timeline. There have been lots of releases rumored for deployment on a date and then it gets pushed back. I'd bet that most of the time it was to resolve defects. No one is perfect and issues do slip through the net. The software industry sets standards for acceptance and I believe TiVo has their standards pretty well set with the market. A TiVo is not a life-critical system...as much as some may feel that it is sometimes. TiVo isn't sending people to the ISS, they're recording TV for you.

Back in the day when I was slinging code, a Director overrode my Manager on a release that test said wasn't ready. 4 weeks and 1 very embarrassing roll-back later my boss was the Director, I was the Manager, and the old Director was looking for a job.

Management's approach is Quality First.

Oh, let me correct, NEW Management's approach is Quality First.


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

PrimeRisk said:


> Do you actually think they don't test their software and hardware?


Well actually I don't think they test it enough. Especially when bugs continue to exist from previous generation boxes.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

Resist said:


> Well actually I don't think they test it enough. Especially when bugs continue to exist from previous generation boxes.


To me that is an indication that either the problem is not considered to be a bug, is considered to be a trivial bug not worth fixing, or is considered to be a bug that is too expensive or difficult to fix.

I am quite sure that they are well aware of these bugs and don't need further testing to remind them that the bug exists.

Most companies have some sort of triage process where they decide what to accept and what to fix. I don't think TiVo is any different in that respect.


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## PrimeRisk (Dec 16, 2002)

CuriousMark said:


> To me that is an indication that either the problem is not considered to be a bug, is considered to be a trivial bug not worth fixing, or is considered to be a bug that is too expensive or difficult to fix.
> 
> I am quite sure that they are well aware of these bugs and don't need further testing to remind them that the bug exists.
> 
> Most companies have some sort of triage process where they decide what to accept and what to fix. I don't think TiVo is any different in that respect.


Heh...yeah. We call it a bug...they call it a "feature". 

In our shop we'll close those Defect Reports as "Working as designed".

Let me translate that into executive-speak terms:

"I understand you think it's a bug, but that's what was scoped, funded, confirmed in the requirements, designed, approved, developed, tested, QA'd, and formally accepted. If you have the authority and money, we'd be happy to take care of that for you."

Now in layman terms:

"Suck it up, Buttercup! It ain't changing."


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Something I'm wondering.

Have any of you people on this forum complaining about the bugs signed up to be a beta tester?

Complaining about the bugs here is not productive.
Sign up to be a beta tester and (possibly) be part of the solution.
The more diversity TiVo has with user configurations, the better.


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## PrimeRisk (Dec 16, 2002)

steve614 said:


> Something I'm wondering.
> 
> Have any of you people on this forum complaining about the bugs signed up to be a beta tester?


Yes I have and I keep my profile up to date. I also call support with significant issues so they are recorded through those channels.


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## Soapm (May 9, 2007)

PrimeRisk said:


> "I understand you think it's a bug, but that's what was scoped, funded, confirmed in the requirements, designed, approved, developed, tested, QA'd, and formally accepted. If you have the authority and money, *we'd be happy to take care of that for you*.""


You sound like our developers except they would say, "make it work any way you want" instead of take care of that. However, what we call a bug they say is how we ordered it and if we find it does something we didn't ask for they say, "oh, we threw that in for free"...


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

PrimeRisk said:


> "I understand you think it's a bug, but that's what was scoped, funded, confirmed in the requirements, designed, approved, developed, tested, QA'd, and formally accepted. If you have the authority and money, we'd be happy to take care of that for you."


As a *user* with lifetime subscription Tivos, I would gladly pay a one-time fee for a bunch of bugs/enhancement requests to be fixed:

* Use the SAME TUNER, when recording abutting shows WITH PADDING. This would effectively DOUBLE the number of tuners I have in many of my conflict cases.. I think I would literally pay $50 per Tivo for this. (Maybe more.)

* Reasonable free space meter (I realize Premieres have something like this, but IMHO it's still not really "reasonable")

* Faster transferring (Elites have this)

* Editing of shows (even simple delete from pause point to beginning/to end)


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## PrimeRisk (Dec 16, 2002)

mattack said:


> As a *user* with lifetime subscription Tivos, I would gladly pay a one-time fee for a bunch of bugs/enhancement requests to be fixed:
> 
> * Use the SAME TUNER, when recording abutting shows WITH PADDING. This would effectively DOUBLE the number of tuners I have in many of my conflict cases.. I think I would literally pay $50 per Tivo for this. (Maybe more.)
> 
> ...


Well, I think that's a good start...offer to pay for the fixes, but I don't think we'll get very far. I don't know a developer worth their salt that would cost the organization only $50/hour. I would think each of these features would range in the 500-1000 hour Level of Effort once you consider a normal enhancement project process. You have to consider the Organization, Requirements Collection, Design, Development, Testing, QA, Beta Trials, Marketing Materials, Training, and Deployment. It is a machine that has to be fed, that's just how it is for commercial development. As we can see from this thread, American consumers are very intolerant of defects in their Consumer Electronics devices.


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

CuriousMark said:


> I am quite sure that they are well aware of these bugs and don't need further testing to remind them that the bug exists.


And that's my point that they don't need to waste time and money on further testing, just fix what already exists first.


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## lafos (Nov 8, 2004)

Resist said:


> And that's my point that they don't need to waste time and money on further testing, just fix what already exists first.


A lot of my program debugging felt like a game of "whack-a-mole", where the fixes to some bugs led to new ones or worsened others. Without ongoing testing, your suggestion will not have a high probability of success.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

lafos said:


> A lot of my program debugging felt like a game of "whack-a-mole", where the fixes to some bugs led to new ones or worsened others. Without ongoing testing, your suggestion will not have a high probability of success.


This is especially true when you are working on code you didn't write and the person who wrote it isn't around anymore. Without an in depth knowledge of how the system works, it's very easy to break something while fixing something seemingly unrelated or worse introduce a memory leak or something else that eventually leads to system instability over time.

I wonder how many of the original TiVo programers still work at TiVo?


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

morac said:


> This is especially true when you are working on code you didn't write and the person who wrote it isn't around anymore. Without an in depth knowledge of how the system works, it's very easy to break something while fixing something seemingly unrelated or worse introduce a memory leak or something else that eventually leads to system instability over time.
> 
> I wonder how many of the original TiVo programers still work at TiVo?


This is why I changed my title to "Software Archaeologist".


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Resist said:


> And that's my point that they don't need to waste time and money on further testing, just fix what already exists first.


Fixes need to be tested. If there's one thing Tivo has done right, it's that they haven't released some half-arsed untested patch that bricked my Tivo (yet).

The worst they've ever done to me is that one patch this year that caused me a bunch of remote control lockups until they reverted back out of it a few days later.

Software quality assurance and deployment are complicated and tedious. There can be more hours spent there than actually fixing a bug in the first place. I'm quick to criticize this company for not making improvements, and I think they deserve that criticism, but _less testing_ and _eliminating the beta program_ are NOT the answer. If anything there should be more testing, more communication to the community (changelogs, anyone?) and a more visible and open beta program.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

morac said:


> This is especially true when you are working on code you didn't write and the person who wrote it isn't around anymore. Without an in depth knowledge of how the system works, it's very easy to break something while fixing something seemingly unrelated or worse introduce a memory leak or something else that eventually leads to system instability over time.
> 
> I wonder how many of the original TiVo programers still work at TiVo?


Who cares? This type of issue is true at all software companies. Yet, most of them are not as incompetent as Tivo.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

aadam101 said:


> Who cares? This type of issue is true at all software companies. Yet, most of them are not as incompetent as Tivo.


I think that's debatable.

http://www.wired.com/software/coolapps/news/2005/11/69355?currentPage=all
http://www.fastwerkz.com/index.php?...s-highway-stalling&catid=7:bad-news&Itemid=20
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/projectfa...-refund-50-million-over-software-glitch/11155
http://www.finextra.com/news/fullstory.aspx?newsitemid=21793
http://www.appleinsider.com/article...re_fix_for_lingering_ipad_wi_fi_problems.html


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

lafos said:


> Without ongoing testing, your suggestion will not have a high probability of success.


Then I guess I'm the only one that thinks a company should test this stuff in house and fix it, long before it's released to the public for sale. I don't get the whole concept of releasing "broken" products and using free beta testers. Tivo knew about some of the issues long before customers started complaining about them.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Resist said:


> Then I guess I'm the only one that thinks a company should test this stuff in house and fix it, long before it's released to the public for sale.


To the extent that there are people willing to beta test the product for free, it's a wonderful resource to exploit. It gets you experience with customer equipment and usage habits that you wouldn't experience in house.



Resist said:


> I don't get the whole concept of releasing "broken" products ...


That's a separate issue. No product should be sold in a "broken" or incomplete state. I have no disagreement with you there. Poor work and poor quality control reflect badly on the company. It just has nothing to do with whether or not there's a beta test program.


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## stahta01 (Dec 23, 2001)

zalusky said:


> This is why I changed my title to "Software Archaeologist".


LOL

Tim S.


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## gamo62 (Oct 12, 2002)

PrimeRisk said:


> Opinions vary...


Agreed.


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## gamo62 (Oct 12, 2002)

Resist said:


> I wish Tivo would just fix current software bugs instead of wasting resources on customer beta programs.


How do you think they fix those "current bugs? Just pull them out of their collective asses?


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## minimeh (Jun 20, 2011)

PrimeRisk said:


> Opinions vary...





gamo62 said:


> Agreed.


No they don't.


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

Those complaining about software testing and development in this thread have not obviously been software developers themselves. Developer testing, Internal unit testing, peer review testing, alpha client testing to a small pool, beta client testing to a larger pool, beta tester soak testing, initial production client test rollout, finally followed by full rollout. Even doing this you will not catch all bugs, you can never replicate every possible iteration during testing.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

brentil said:


> Even doing this you will not catch all bugs, you can never replicate every possible iteration during testing.


But you will catch them once the software is released and deal with them accordingly. This is where Tivo fails miserably. They don't fix the bugs. They just consider the product "finished" and move onto the next thing.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

aadam101 said:


> But you will catch them once the software is released and deal with them accordingly. This is where Tivo fails miserably. They don't fix the bugs. They just consider the product "finished" and move onto the next thing.


Agreed, but that's a fault of business _priority_, not software testing _methodology_.


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

aadam101 said:


> But you will catch them once the software is released and deal with them accordingly. This is where Tivo fails miserably. They don't fix the bugs. They just consider the product "finished" and move onto the next thing.


This statement just indicates you've never been part of several TiVo <Redacted> sessions. That is your opinion and it does not reflect what TiVo is really doing.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

brentil said:


> This statement just indicates you've never been part of several TiVo <Redacted> sessions. That is your opinion and it does not reflect what TiVo is really doing.


A couple years of incomplete HDUI, half-utilization of the CPU, and the continued inability both of my boxes to boot reliably while the bluetooth dongle is installed confirm my opinion that Tivo is not good at finishing things.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

brentil said:


> This statement just indicates you've never been part of several TiVo <Redacted> sessions. That is your opinion and it does not reflect what TiVo is really doing.


This is exactly what Tivo is doing. I have been on this forum for almost a decade and the past couple of years have been the worst of Tivo. Their subscriber count agrees.

They have many half baked, half finished features on the Premiere. There are known bugs (like easily bypassing parental controls) that Tivo just ignores. They know about these bugs because they are reported here and we know that several Tivo employees actively monitor these boards. I am sure they are reported others ways as well but reading about a bug here should be enough. It used to be enough.

They certainly read about the "bug" that gave us the ability to stream and promptly shut it down.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

No, you are just seeing the results. Nobody knows what they are doing, and why we see what we see. 

From my point of view, the results are that they are concentrating on growing the business through partnerships with cablecos, which is actually reasonable. I would not be be surprised if a fly on the wall would hear that our complaints are all on their to do list, but that they need to focus on growth with their biggest opportunity and then backfill the elements for everyone once those base changes are in place.

Here's to hoping that they are working on the backfill...


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

jrtroo said:


> From my point of view, the results are that they are concentrating on growing the business through partnerships with cablecos, which is actually reasonable.


All the partnerships and deals you can muster aren't going to help you in the long run if you can't manufacture a quality product. The box should have never gone out the door in the first place with the flaws it has.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

smbaker said:


> All the partnerships and deals you can muster aren't going to help you in the long run if you can't manufacture a quality product. The box should have never gone out the door in the first place with the flaws it has.


I'll still take my Premieres over any cable company DVR offered.


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## whompus60 (Oct 3, 2011)

aaronwt said:


> I'll still take my Premieres over any cable company DVR offered.


Me to.

The only issue I have with mine is the slow down of transfer speed with the last update. Which to my knowledge is not an option in a cable company's dvr.

I even use hdui, and have no issues with it. I know it could be a bit more snappy, but I guess I don't task mine like some of you guys.


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## chunkybug (Oct 24, 2011)

aaronwt said:


> I'll still take my Premieres over any cable company DVR offered.


I agree..I like even better than the 722k that I had as I believe it ranks up to my all time favorite the beloved D*shplayer.

Just my thoughts as usual.

Kev


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