# Tivo OTA signal strength question



## mulliganman (Mar 29, 2014)

New member here. I have the Roamio basic and was wondering what the signal strength meter needs to be at to receive reliable OTA channels. My signal strength on my non-Roamio TV's are quite a bit higher than on my TV connected to the Roamio. Feedback appreciated.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

There is no standard for OTA signal meters. So there really is no way to compare noted signal strength between devices. You can only really use the meter to compare signal strength on various channels on an individual device. 

For the Roamio I have found anything over 50 is a good signal, between 40-50 is hit or miss, anything below 40 isn't going to be watchable, and the highest I have seen was in the low 70s.


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## mulliganman (Mar 29, 2014)

Thanks for the reply. I realize comparing across devices is difficult. I really just wanted to hear what signal strength others using the basic Roamio were getting. I'm anywhere from in the 50's to low 70's depending upon the channel. Support told me I needed to be around 80 for reliable reception. I had contacted them because of some pixelation issues I was getting. But, I think it may have been due to picking up stations off axis on my Antennas Direct 91XG. Their solution was adding this device: http://www.winegard.com/offair/amplifiers.php The LN100 amplifier.

It bumped stations up a little, but good to hear others are getting reliable reception where I am at.


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## troasti (Nov 13, 2008)

mulliganman said:


> Thanks for the reply. I realize comparing across devices is difficult. I really just wanted to hear what signal strength others using the basic Roamio were getting. I'm anywhere from in the 50's to low 70's depending upon the channel. Support told me I needed to be around 80 for reliable reception. I had contacted them because of some pixelation issues I was getting. But, I think it may have been due to picking up stations off axis on my Antennas Direct 91XG. Their solution was adding this device: http://www.winegard.com/offair/amplifiers.php The LN100 amplifier.
> 
> It bumped stations up a little, but good to hear others are getting reliable reception where I am at.


The 91XG is a very directional antenna with a narrow beam width. In other words you need to point it in the direction of the antenna tower and it won't pick up many other stations its not pointed at. Unless your antenna farms are mostly in the same direction you may need a rotor to aim it. 
This is the best site for determing that:
http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29

If your going to get an amplifier you should get a preamp that is mast mounted. Otherwise you don't just amplify the signal, you amplify the noise as well. Others and I have had luck with this one and its relatively inexpensive:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/RCA-Antenna-Pre-Amplifier/14554631

Good luck.


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## mulliganman (Mar 29, 2014)

does anyone get signal strength in the 85-99% range via an OTA antenna setup? I have now had chat agents on more than 1 occasion say you can't get reliable reception if you don't get at that level. I have tried just using an Antennas Direct C2V instead of the 91XG to see if that makes a difference on the channels I was picking up off axis on the 91XG (the C2V is aimed precisely at said channels that I am experiencing some issues on)but still see things like black lines show up or slight cutouts on occasion.


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## consumedsoul (Jan 13, 2013)

mulliganman said:


> does anyone get signal strength in the 85-99% range via an OTA antenna setup? I have now had chat agents on more than 1 occasion say you can't get reliable reception if you don't get at that level. I have tried just using an Antennas Direct C2V instead of the 91XG to see if that makes a difference on the channels I was picking up off axis on the 91XG (the C2V is aimed precisely at said channels that I am experiencing some issues on)but still see things like black lines show up or slight cutouts on occasion.


i get that on 2 of the 4 channels i care about (abc, nbc, cbs, fox) - i get about 60+ on the other 2 channels and the quality is still perfect.


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## mulliganman (Mar 29, 2014)

consumedsoul said:


> i get that on 2 of the 4 channels i care about (abc, nbc, cbs, fox) - i get about 60+ on the other 2 channels and the quality is still perfect.


What is your antenna setup and tvfool look like?


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## troasti (Nov 13, 2008)

mulliganman said:


> does anyone get signal strength in the 85-99% range via an OTA antenna setup? I have now had chat agents on more than 1 occasion say you can't get reliable reception if you don't get at that level. I have tried just using an Antennas Direct C2V instead of the 91XG to see if that makes a difference on the channels I was picking up off axis on the 91XG (the C2V is aimed precisely at said channels that I am experiencing some issues on)but still see things like black lines show up or slight cutouts on occasion.


There is a difference between signal strength and signal quality. I assume you are using a Roamio? The premiere had known issues with multipath that caused signal meters to bounce all over the place. I find with my Roamio most signals are between 65-80% and I rarely have drop outs. The only channel I have issues with is over 90 degrees off where I am pointing but using a TIVO I can't really use a rotor and I already have that same network where I am pointing. Where is your antenna mounted? Here is a good primer:
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/siting.html
The C2V has a wider beam width but is also a much better VHF antenna vs the 91XG. Are any of your channels on VHF?
How far away from the antenna farm are you?


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## mulliganman (Mar 29, 2014)

troasti said:


> There is a difference between signal strength and signal quality. I assume you are using a Roamio? The premiere had known issues with multipath that caused signal meters to bounce all over the place. I find with my Roamio most signals are between 65-80% and I rarely have drop outs. The only channel I have issues with is over 90 degrees off where I am pointing but using a TIVO I can't really use a rotor and I already have that same network where I am pointing. Where is your antenna mounted? Here is a good primer:
> http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/siting.html
> The C2V has a wider beam width but is also a much better VHF antenna vs the 91XG. Are any of your channels on VHF?
> How far away from the antenna farm are you?


Yes I am using a Roamio basic. I have one VHF channel. I am less than 20 miles from the towers. Here is my TV fool: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=5b940f11af42d0

My antennas are both roof mounted. I will be installing this soon so as to only allow the 91XG to pass my local Fox station: http://www.tinlee.com/PDF/AC7-customer general hookup Info.pdf


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## troasti (Nov 13, 2008)

mulliganman said:


> Yes I am using a Roamio basic. I have one VHF channel. I am less than 20 miles from the towers. Here is my TV fool: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=5b940f11af42d0
> 
> My antennas are both roof mounted. I will be installing this soon so as to only allow the 91XG to pass my local Fox station: http://www.tinlee.com/PDF/AC7-customer general hookup Info.pdf


Now I see. You have a tough situation there. You antenna farms are in different directions. Many of them are 1 or 2 edge which means the signal has to deflect once or twice off a mountain or hill before it reaches your antenna. That would def give you drop outs. Do you have luck with the 1 and 2 edge path channels? Good idea to use a single channel filter before you combine the signal with the other antenna. You could run two lines and use an AB switch on the TV but your like me and want to record with your Tivo so that would not really work. I assume your pointing the 91XG at the local NBC, ABC PBS? Another problem you maybe having is the 91XG with an amp maybe overpowering the tivo tuner with those local closer signals. Have you ever checked out this forum? 
http://www.highdefforum.com/local-hdtv-info-reception-9/

If you post your TV fool address people love to help with recommendations/issues with reception.


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## mulliganman (Mar 29, 2014)

troasti said:


> Now I see. You have a tough situation there. You antenna farms are in different directions. Many of them are 1 or 2 edge which means the signal has to deflect once or twice off a mountain or hill before it reaches your antenna. That would def give you drop outs. Do you have luck with the 1 and 2 edge path channels? Good idea to use a single channel filter before you combine the signal with the other antenna. You could run two lines and use an AB switch on the TV but your like me and want to record with your Tivo so that would not really work. I assume your pointing the 91XG at the local NBC, ABC PBS? Another problem you maybe having is the 91XG with an amp maybe overpowering the tivo tuner with those local closer signals. Have you ever checked out this forum?
> http://www.highdefforum.com/local-hdtv-info-reception-9/
> 
> If you post your TV fool address people love to help with recommendations/issues with reception.


Actually, all my locals except Fox KRBK are LOS. The Fox station is 2 edge conditions. That is what my 91XG is aimed at. The C2V is picking up NBC, CBS, CW, ABC, PBS. I am currently not using an amp of any kind. The AC7 custom single channel combiner I have coming has DC Pass through built in for Fox if I need it.


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## troasti (Nov 13, 2008)

mulliganman said:


> Actually, all my locals except Fox KRBK are LOS. The Fox station is 2 edge conditions. That is what my 91XG is aimed at. The C2V is picking up NBC, CBS, CW, ABC, PBS. I am currently not using an amp of any kind. The AC7 custom single channel combiner I have coming has DC Pass through built in for Fox if I need it.


Which channels have the drop outs? Fox 49? Since your dealing with that channel bouncing all over the place your best bet is to just go on the roof and move it around and test that channel over and over. I bought a cheap tuner for my laptop and sat on the roof with it until I got my most challenging channel 60 miles 1 edge and it comes in perfectly. I've seen this signal meter go down to 30$ before as well.
http://www.antennasdirect.com/store/UHF-VHF-Signal-Meter.html
Even cheaper is get a buddy to help you and use the cell phone while one person stands on the roof and aims and one checks the tv


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## mulliganman (Mar 29, 2014)

troasti said:


> Which channels have the drop outs? Fox 49? Since your dealing with that channel bouncing all over the place your best bet is to just go on the roof and move it around and test that channel over and over. I bought a cheap tuner for my laptop and sat on the roof with it until I got my most challenging channel 60 miles 1 edge and it comes in perfectly. I've seen this signal meter go down to 30$ before as well.
> http://www.antennasdirect.com/store/UHF-VHF-Signal-Meter.html
> Even cheaper is get a buddy to help you and use the cell phone while one person stands on the roof and aims and one checks the tv


Fox 49 has actually been perfect. I have noticed the issues/brief black lines are NBC and CBS to this point. We used a compass and the TV fool bearing for the aiming of both antennas but I do appreciate the suggestion on the signal meter.


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## donald26 (Apr 7, 2014)

I gave up on Roamio since my Samsung tv gives excellent signal pickup as well as an Hauppage tuner which I installed in my pc. The Roamio seems to work ok with my cable when I use it in that style.
All these devices are connected to the same antenna.
I am now considering the new Channel Master DVR+ as a dvr solution.
Certainly the Tivo has superior menus etc, but it is not usable if it does not pull in most signals.
donald


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

donald26 said:


> I gave up on Roamio since my Samsung tv gives excellent signal pickup as well as an Hauppage tuner which I installed in my pc. The Roamio seems to work ok with my cable when I use it in that style.
> All these devices are connected to the same antenna.
> I am now considering the new Channel Master DVR+ as a dvr solution.
> Certainly the Tivo has superior menus etc, but it is not usable if it does not pull in most signals.
> donald


So are you for real? Or just another Channel Master Pimp?

Most people (including me) have found the Roamio OTA tuners to be very good. In my setup my Roamio OTA tuners are as good or better than any other tuners I have used including my Panasonic TV & HDHomeRun.

On the outside chance you are for real, if your Roamio's OTA tuners are significantly different than the other tuners you mention I would assume you had a defective unit.

*Just a note for other readers this account (donald26) was just opened and used to post 2 negative comments about Roamio & OTA reception. Once to bring an old channel master thread back up and again in this thread where the channel master was mentioned as an option. *


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## troasti (Nov 13, 2008)

atmuscarella said:


> So are you for real? Or just another Channel Master Pimp?
> 
> Most people (including me) have found the Roamio OTA tuners to be very good. In my setup my Roamio OTA tuners are as good or better than any other tuners I have used including my Panasonic TV & HDHomeRun.
> 
> ...


Not only that but by the time you purchase the CM DVR+, the wireless adapter, Hard Drive to use as a DVR and a slingbox to do multiroom viewing your paying almost as much as a tivo with lifetime with a worse interface, less tuners, no online scheduling and less integrated apps.


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## twylie (Apr 6, 2014)

anything over 40 is watchable for me with occasional pixelation, 50+ is solid with 1-2 sec tuning. 60+ and I have zero drop outs or pixelation. This is about 30 miles from me line of sight. I have decent elevation on the towers, but a few hills between my home and the towers. The tuner in the Roamio basic is slightly better at locking into stations than the tuner in my Vizio E series TVs. I can get 100% of major network signals. I'm fortunate in that all towers are in a cluster roughly the same angle from my house. I'm using an Antennas Direct C2-V with a powered splitter to feed TV's in the house including the Roamio.


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## ukfigs (Apr 9, 2014)

Just switched my premier for a rovio to try to get better reception OTA in particular one station that got signal dropout ( CBS) on the premier

I have re-pointed the antenna and now get signal strength in the 60's for all the network channels except for Fox where the signal strength is not high enough to get anything, I cannot figure out why this is as the Fox antenna is in almost the exact same place as the CBS and PBS antennas (14 miles at 89 deg) the Fox is 14 miles and 89 deg. I have a antenna signal booster in the setup (wineguard LNA-200) and the antenna is in the attic and is a RCA ANT751. The Tivo is about 100 feet from the antenna.

Is there a better setup or something I need to add

Any suggestions appreciated


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## troasti (Nov 13, 2008)

ukfigs said:


> Just switched my premier for a rovio to try to get better reception OTA in particular one station that got signal dropout ( CBS) on the premier
> 
> I have re-pointed the antenna and now get signal strength in the 60's for all the network channels except for Fox where the signal strength is not high enough to get anything, I cannot figure out why this is as the Fox antenna is in almost the exact same place as the CBS and PBS antennas (14 miles at 89 deg) the Fox is 14 miles and 89 deg. I have a antenna signal booster in the setup (wineguard LNA-200) and the antenna is in the attic and is a RCA ANT751. The Tivo is about 100 feet from the antenna.
> 
> ...


You will have much better luck moving your antenna outside. That antenna isn't very big either so I doubt it will bother your neighbors 
Goto TVfool.com, put in your address and post the results.

http://www.highdefforum.com/local-hdtv-info-reception-9/
is a great forum for OTA reception advice. I would post there and ask including your tvfool location.


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## ukfigs (Apr 9, 2014)

https://picasaweb.google.com/dbfiggins/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCK-92ryPqrbaLw#6000657409174641090


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## ragnrok23 (Sep 18, 2007)

How is the Roamio compared to the series 3? I remember having between 70-90 signal strenght with my old series 3 a few years back, now I have between 40-60. I know I had problems with loose connections, but thought I had fixed that issue (so wondering if I need to hire someone to come in and redo the crimping for me)


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

ragnrok23 said:


> How is the Roamio compared to the series 3? I remember having between 70-90 signal strenght with my old series 3 a few years back, now I have between 40-60. I know I had problems with loose connections, but thought I had fixed that issue (so wondering if I need to hire someone to come in and redo the crimping for me)


For me actual OTA reception with my Roamio and Series 3 (& TiVo HD) units is about the same.

However my Roamio (like my Premiere) shows much lower signal strength compared to my Series 3 or TiVo HD (all connected to the same splitter via identical cables).


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## cosmicvoid (Oct 13, 2013)

Compared to half a dozen previous (non-Tivo) DVRs, the tuner sensitivity of the Roamio is "pretty good" (whatever that means), but the real strong point of the Tivo tuner(s) is the excellent multi-path rejection. I have a difficult shot to the Seattle stations, due to terrain, probably 1 edge on a few channels, and lots of multi-path, and the Roamio is solid reception (unlike the SiliconDust tuners).


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## ragnrok23 (Sep 18, 2007)

atmuscarella said:


> For me actual OTA reception with my Roamio and Series 3 (& TiVo HD) units is about the same.
> 
> However my Roamio (like my Premiere) shows much lower signal strength compared to my Series 3 or TiVo HD (all connected to the same splitter via identical cables).


Thank you! That's exactly the answer I was looking for.


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## elwaylite (Apr 23, 2006)

Glad I found this thread. I just swapped antennas so I could get the larger one I had on the wall out for a slim "flatwave" antenna. SS dropped from 90's to 72-75 on all channels I record. Video feed seems to be steady and I noticed the SS bar turns green over 50, so i figured Id be fine with 72. One channel is actually about 45 that I do not watch and it seems to come in fine, granted Im sure there is a chance it could breakup at that level.


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