# Leaving TiVo & Spectrum for Greener Pastures



## Andrew B (Oct 7, 2017)

After 6 years, I'm giving up on my current Tivo/Spectrum setup. It's clear that both companies aren't going to support (much less evolve) their hardware. For me, it's too hard to justify dependence on a CableCard, an aging TiVo Bolt and either company actually providing meaningful service.

After a ton of research, I'm going with DirecTV Stream. Essentially, it's satellite TV without the dish -- the data comes via your internet connection. From there, you can purchase a dedicated box for about $100 that connects to your WiFi or ethernet network and provides an HDMI connection and includes a fairly decent remote control. Alternatively, you can use the DirecTV Stream app on Roku or similar devices. The programming packages, as well as premium channels, are up to you. Local channels are included, but no sub-channels. No contract required. (This is different from the dish-based service where a two-year agreement is mandatory.)

In direct comparisons of PQ, there's no question the Stream box is better -- definitely less image compression vs. Spectrum/TiVo. This is the first system I've seen that truly looks like cable TV -- no odd lags, no dark images that make football games look like they're shot on film, nothing like that. The interface is fast and intuitive. The Stream box also seems much more optimized for 4k as well. Unlimited cloud DVR which seems to work perfectly. Of course, this all requires a solid high-speed internet connection (probably at least 50 Mbps down) and good wifi coverage in your home. If you can do ethernet, well, good on you!

So no more cable cards, no more hard drive-based DVRs, no more channel adapters, no more RG6 coax, no more abandoned tech. I've played with the new system for about 48 hours and really like it, but if I'm missing something or you've had a bad experience, please let me know!

I don't work for DirecTV or have any interest in them other than getting a marginally decent viewing experience that's as good or better than TiVo.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Smart move. DirecTV stream is definitely top tier, with a top tier price to go with it. I had it for a couple of years, but ultimately found more value with Youtube TV. My bad experience with DTV was the quadrupling of the price after 2 years when they promised me it would not increase as well as utterly baffling recording management (I've heard this may have improved since I left). But the box and viewing/user experience was great otherwise. Welcome to the 21st century.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

I might have considered them but with my T-Mobile plan I get $10 discount on YTTV so at $54.99 nobody else competes.


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## Andrew B (Oct 7, 2017)

mdavej said:


> Smart move. DirecTV stream is definitely top tier, with a top tier price to go with it. I had it for a couple of years, but ultimately found more value with Youtube TV. My bad experience with DTV was the quadrupling of the price after 2 years when they promised me it would not increase as well as utterly baffling recording management (I've heard this may have improved since I left). But the box and viewing/user experience was great otherwise. Welcome to the 21st century.


The dealbreaker for me with YouTubeTV was that they don't carry Bally Sports--the only way to get our local MLB team. We also watch AXSTV quite a bit, but that's not available on YouTubeTV either. (At least I don't think it is.) I'll watch for the inevitable price hike, although that was always the case with Spectrum, too. At least now, I don't have to buy an expensive box (like the Bolt was), pay for a TiVo subscription, rent a tuning adapter and rent a cableCARD.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

You should soon be able to get Bally Sports as an add-on for $20/month or $190/year. For me that could even bring Sling back into consideration, but I'll still probably prefer the better channel selection on YouTubeTV.








Bally Sports+ streaming service to become widely available Sept. 26


Service to launch for the 2022-23 NBA and NHL seasons




www.ballysports.com


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Looking at the DTV Stream it doesn’t appear to carry any local stations. Is that correct? I couldn’t find channels for CBS, NBC or ABC either.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

dlfl said:


> Looking at the DTV Stream it doesn’t appear to carry any local stations. Is that correct? I couldn’t find channels for CBS, NBC or ABC either.


Sure not easy to find. There is fine print mentioning locals and regional sports. But, yes they do offer locals. Here is a search tool based on your zip. DIRECTV STREAM Channel TV Lineup | Local, RSN & National


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

series5orpremier said:


> You should soon be able to get Bally Sports as an add-on for $20/month or $190/year. For me that could even bring Sling back into consideration, but I'll still probably prefer the better channel selection on YouTubeTV.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wondering about MLB local game coverage (for 2023). The linked announcement is not real definite about that, and I read somewhere (Reddit) that there may be problems with getting MLB into this service.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

pl1 said:


> Sure not easy to find. There is fine print mentioning locals and regional sports. But, yes they do offer locals. Here is a search tool based on your zip. DIRECTV STREAM Channel TV Lineup | Local, RSN & National


Thanks, yes they don’t make it easy to find! I see that (for my location at least) they have good local station coverage, which means they also cover the major networks.

The DTV Stream package required to get RSN’s costs $90/mo (after the first 2 mos). That’s $25/mo more than YTTV. Adding the new Bally Sports package would only add $20/mo to my YTTV cost for a savings of $5/mo. There would be the slight inconvenience of having to use two different apps. Also, I’m assuming the Bally service does not include DVR recordings (???) which would be a major disadvantage. Maybe I can hope that eventually YTTV will offer the Bally service as an add-on (with DVR recordings as is normal for YTTV). They have until next spring to do this as far as I’m concerned because Cincy Reds baseball is the only RSN item I care about!


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

dlfl said:


> Wondering about MLB local game coverage (for 2023). The linked announcement is not real definite about that, and I read somewhere (Reddit) that there may be problems with getting MLB into this service.


Bally is the local rights holder in the markets where they offer the streaming service. They did trial runs in KC, MIN, DET, and FLA this summer with live games. Put it this way, they don't expect to get $20/month out of people for professional poker.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538901101596098561I don't know why the games wouldn't also be on demand. The Bally live channels have scheduled replays and MLB Extra Innings has completed games on demand.


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## Andrew B (Oct 7, 2017)

dlfl said:


> Thanks, yes they don’t make it easy to find! I see that (for my location at least) they have good local station coverage, which means they also cover the major networks.
> 
> The DTV Stream package required to get RSN’s costs $90/mo (after the first 2 mos). That’s $25/mo more than YTTV. Adding the new Bally Sports package would only add $20/mo to my YTTV cost for a savings of $5/mo. There would be the slight inconvenience of having to use two different apps. Also, I’m assuming the Bally service does not include DVR recordings (???) which would be a major disadvantage. Maybe I can hope that eventually YTTV will offer the Bally service as an add-on (with DVR recordings as is normal for YTTV). They have until next spring to do this as far as I’m concerned because Cincy Reds baseball is the only RSN item I care about!


I'm not sure about bigger markets, but in our small market, we get all the typical local stations, but none of their substations that are available with cable or over the air. That's not TOO big of a deal.

You're spot-on with the multiple apps thing -- I think most people hate that. And from a cost perspective, by the time you subscribe to multiple services and build your own collection of programming, you're probably within $10 of the price of mid-level cable.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Andrew B said:


> After 6 years, I'm giving up on my current Tivo/Spectrum setup. It's clear that both companies aren't going to support (much less evolve) their hardware. For me, it's too hard to justify dependence on a CableCard, an aging TiVo Bolt and either company actually providing meaningful service.
> 
> After a ton of research, I'm going with DirecTV Stream. Essentially, it's satellite TV without the dish -- the data comes via your internet connection. From there, you can purchase a dedicated box for about $100 that connects to your WiFi or ethernet network and provides an HDMI connection and includes a fairly decent remote control. Alternatively, you can use the DirecTV Stream app on Roku or similar devices. The programming packages, as well as premium channels, are up to you. Local channels are included, but no sub-channels. No contract required. (This is different from the dish-based service where a two-year agreement is mandatory.)
> 
> ...


Aside from picture quality I’m missing what the complains about your TiVo setup were.

Aging hardware? So? Was it still working and doing it’s job?

Are there features that DTV Stream delivering that TiVo didn’t?

You say it’s clear TiVo/Spectrum won’t support… did you have issues they refused to resolve?


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## Andrew B (Oct 7, 2017)

cwoody222 said:


> Aside from picture quality I’m missing what the complains about your TiVo setup were.
> 
> Aging hardware? So? Was it still working and doing it’s job?
> 
> ...


It's more that I'm choosing to be proactive rather than wait for hardware to die (or no longer be supported, both by TiVo and Spectrum). On the software side, I'd rather be with an active service that continues to evolve rather than the standstill software with TiVo. For example, the apps via the Bolt (like Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc.) were never reliable and will never be fixed due to the OS, and aside from bug fixes, it sounds like the current version of the interface will be the last one. On the Spectrum side, in addition to a doubtful product roadmap for cableCARD, seriously steep price hikes and inferior internet service play a major role. And PQ is a big deal, particularly with a 75" 4K screen. All in all, I had a good run with TiVo, but it's time to move on.


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## Andrew B (Oct 7, 2017)

Andrew B said:


> It's more that I'm choosing to be proactive rather than wait for hardware to die (or no longer be supported, both by TiVo and Spectrum). On the software side, I'd rather be with an active service that continues to evolve rather than the standstill software with TiVo. For example, the apps via the Bolt (like Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc.) were never reliable and will never be fixed due to the OS, and aside from bug fixes, it sounds like the current version of the interface will be the last one. On the Spectrum side, in addition to a doubtful product roadmap for cableCARD, seriously steep price hikes and inferior internet service play a major role. And PQ is a big deal, particularly with a 75" 4K screen. All in all, I had a good run with TiVo, but it's time to move on.


Also... the noisy fan issue in the Bolt was never resolved. In my case, I did the surgery myself with a replacement fan.


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## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

I still think TiVo should incorporate the DirecTV Stream service into their Stream 4K with the TiVo interface/GUI. Even rebrand the service as TiVo TV or something.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

southerndoc said:


> I still think TiVo should incorporate the DirecTV Stream service into their Stream 4K with the TiVo interface/GUI. Even rebrand the service as TiVo TV or something.


What possible reason would DTV have to allow that?


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

dlfl said:


> Thanks, yes they don’t make it easy to find! I see that (for my location at least) they have good local station coverage, which means they also cover the major networks.
> 
> The DTV Stream package required to get RSN’s costs $90/mo (after the first 2 mos). That’s $25/mo more than YTTV. Adding the new Bally Sports package would only add $20/mo to my YTTV cost for a savings of $5/mo. There would be the slight inconvenience of having to use two different apps. Also, I’m assuming the Bally service does not include DVR recordings (???) which would be a major disadvantage. Maybe I can hope that eventually YTTV will offer the Bally service as an add-on (with DVR recordings as is normal for YTTV). They have until next spring to do this as far as I’m concerned because Cincy Reds baseball is the only RSN item I care about!


Keep in mind that DTV Stream also has better HD picture quality than YTTV. (I've seen both firsthand.) In fact, I'd say DTV Stream offers the best HD picture quality of any live cable TV service in the nation (even slightly better overall than DTV satellite). And while I do think YTTV is the overall best value for lots of folks, they've been slow to roll out support for Dolby surround sound (if that matters to you) and I've seen persistent issues with out-of-sync audio on certain channels (mostly a few local ones) since my family got YTTV end of last year.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Andrew B said:


> I'm not sure about bigger markets, but in our small market, we get all the typical local stations, but none of their substations that are available with cable or over the air. That's not TOO big of a deal.


For you or anyone else reading this, if you care about those local subchannel ("diginets") like Me TV, Get TV, Circle, H&I, Start TV, and Story Television, you can get all of those (plus various cable channels) in the skinny FrndlyTV service starting at $7/mo.

Also note that ION, ION Plus, ION Mystery, Court TV, Buzzr, Newsy, and Grit Xtra stream free in Amazon's Freevee app. Circle streams free in both Peacock and Xumo. Dabl streams free in Pluto TV. Meanwhile, most local PBS stations put their main channel live in the free PBS app while the national PBS Kids channel streams free in the PBS Kids app.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Bally Sports+ has not obtained streaming rights for the Cincy Reds according to this article:









Bally Sports+ launch Sept. 26 won't include Reds games


Bally Sports only has streaming rights for five Major League Baseball clubs, so emphasis will be on NHL and NBA games this fall.




www.wvxu.org





Here’s a quote from that article:


> One reason for the late September launch, 10 days before the baseball playoffs, is that Bally Sports does not have streaming rights for nine of its 14 cable TV baseball teams, including the Reds. And Bally Sports does not have a streaming deal with Major League Baseball for next year, according to the Sports Business Journal.


I suspect MLB is reluctant to tie themselves to Bally/Sinclair, perhaps thinking they can do better with their own MLB version of live local games. I hope they do that. Maybe it will provide better deals for people like me who have strong interest in only my local MLB team (the Reds), not in Hockey or NFL teams.

Also, DTV Stream’s lineup web page for my zip code is inconsistent with this because it says (with the Choice package) it includes Bally Sports Cincinnati and lists Reds baseball as included.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

I wouldn't have much use for Bally Sports until March anyway, so if I go streaming I can go cheap and see what the landscape looks like next year.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

NashGuy said:


> Keep in mind that DTV Stream also has better HD picture quality than YTTV. (I've seen both firsthand.) In fact, I'd say DTV Stream offers the best HD picture quality of any live cable TV service in the nation (even slightly better overall than DTV satellite).


Have you compared the VQ/AQ on these services against Hulu/LiveTV? If so, how do they stack up?


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

chiguy50 said:


> Have you compared the VQ/AQ on these services against Hulu/LiveTV? If so, how do they stack up?


I've never had Hulu with Live TV, although I have briefly had Showtime and HBO as Hulu add-ons, which include their live linear channels in the Hulu app. (It's basically like having Hulu with Live TV, except your only live channels are, for instance: HBO, HBO 2, HBO Signature, etc.) But that was a few years ago. As I recall, the live linear PQ was, at that time, decent but definitely inferior to what was then called DTV Now (now branded DTV Stream). 

But you shouldn't take too much from that comparison because Hulu Live's PQ may well have improved since then. Based on multiple comments I've seen online more recently, I get the sense that the consensus is that Hulu Live's linear HD PQ is better than YTTV but not as good as DTV Stream. But obviously take that with a grain of salt.


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## James Rivington (Apr 17, 2020)

Andrew B said:


> After 6 years, I'm giving up on my current Tivo/Spectrum setup. It's clear that both companies aren't going to support (much less evolve) their hardware. For me, it's too hard to justify dependence on a CableCard, an aging TiVo Bolt and either company actually providing meaningful service.
> 
> After a ton of research, I'm going with DirecTV Stream. Essentially, it's satellite TV without the dish -- the data comes via your internet connection. From there, you can purchase a dedicated box for about $100 that connects to your WiFi or ethernet network and provides an HDMI connection and includes a fairly decent remote control. Alternatively, you can use the DirecTV Stream app on Roku or similar devices. The programming packages, as well as premium channels, are up to you. Local channels are included, but no sub-channels. No contract required. (This is different from the dish-based service where a two-year agreement is mandatory.)
> 
> ...


I would be curious about your interest in live motosports events. That's basically all I watch on live TV with my TiVo Bolt and Cox cable. All else is Netflix and Amazon. And Peacock. And even less so now that NBC is moving more and more of their live motorsports stuff to their Peacock streamer. If I went to DirecTV Stream, would I still get a lot of live motorsports? Thanks for any guidance.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Andrew B said:


> It's more that I'm choosing to be proactive rather than wait for hardware to die (or no longer be supported, both by TiVo and Spectrum). On the software side, I'd rather be with an active service that continues to evolve rather than the standstill software with TiVo. For example, the apps via the Bolt (like Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc.) were never reliable and will never be fixed due to the OS, and aside from bug fixes, it sounds like the current version of the interface will be the last one. On the Spectrum side, in addition to a doubtful product roadmap for cableCARD, seriously steep price hikes and inferior internet service play a major role. And PQ is a big deal, particularly with a 75" 4K screen. All in all, I had a good run with TiVo, but it's time to move on.


Thanks for the continued info. 

You mentioned "On the Spectrum side, in addition to a doubtful product roadmap for cableCARD, seriously steep price hikes and *inferior internet service* play a major role." Since DTV Stream is wholly dependent on broadband, I'm curious if you switched to another provider.

TIA!


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

James Rivington said:


> I would be curious about your interest in live motosports events. That's basically all I watch on live TV with my TiVo Bolt and Cox cable. All else is Netflix and Amazon. And Peacock. And even less so now that NBC is moving more and more of their live motorsports stuff to their Peacock streamer. If I went to DirecTV Stream, would I still get a lot of live motorsports? Thanks for any guidance.


My Dad is a big NASCAR fan, so that was a top consideration when I was helping my parents figure out what to switch to after DISH satellite. They ended up going with YouTube TV, but DTV Stream's entry-level Entertainment package ($70/mo) does include all the major channels that carry NASCAR races, practices and talk shows (which are NBC, USA, Fox and FS1). There may be some less-popular motorsports on FS2. If that's a must-have channel for you, be aware that you must step up to the $90/mo Choice package on DTV Stream to get that channel, although it is also included in the main $65/mo package on YouTube TV.


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## ohmark (May 22, 2007)

dlfl said:


> Bally Sports+ has not obtained streaming rights for the Cincy Reds according to this article:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't think the article is inconsistent with the linked story.

That's because there is a difference between streaming rights (being allowed to stream the game on its own app) and tv rights to the game (or team; the Reds). If Bally Sports has tv rights to the team, it is free to cut deals with any cable company or tv streaming company (like Directv Stream) to carry the regional Bally Sports channel, and the team in that area that Bally has a tv contract for. But, without streaming rights it could not use its app to separately stream the game, unless the end customer (the viewer) was a subscriber to the cable or streaming service which has a contract with Bally to carry the local Bally Sports channel.

So, currently if you access tv coverage of your team via a cable or live tv streaming.company, you can watch live coverage of the game via the cable company or live tv streaming service. And you can watch live coverage of the game via the Bally Sports app, but only if you sign-on to the app with your cable/streaming credentials.

On the other hand, if you drop cable/streaming services, and subscribe to the standalone Bally app (in areas where available), you can watch live coverage of the game, but must login with your Bally subscription credentials--but only in areas where Bally has streaming rights.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

ohmark said:


> Don't think the article is inconsistent with the linked story.
> 
> That's because there is a difference between streaming rights (being allowed to stream the game on its own app) and tv rights to the game (or team; the Reds). If Bally Sports has tv rights to the team, it is free to cut deals with any cable company or tv streaming company (like Directv Stream) to carry the regional Bally Sports channel, and the team in that area that Bally has a tv contract for. But, without streaming rights it could not use its app to separately stream the game, unless the end customer (the viewer) was a subscriber to the cable or streaming service which has a contract with Bally to carry the local Bally Sports channel.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I *think* I understand that! So it’s possible the live Cincy Reds games could be available on DTV Stream via Bally Sports Cincinnati (as their lineup claims) but NOT available via direct subscription to Bally Sports+, correct? The devil is in the details!


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## ohmark (May 22, 2007)

dlfl said:


> Thanks. I *think* I understand that! So it’s possible the live Cincy Reds games could be available on DTV Stream via Bally Sports Cincinnati (as their lineup claims) but NOT available via direct subscription to Bally Sports+, correct? The devil is in the details!


That's correct. 
In fact, DTV Stream is currently the only live tv streaming service that has a contract with regional sports network (RSN) Bally Sports. Bally has tv rights to the following MLB teams: Arizona, Atlanta, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Detroit, Kansas City, LA Angels, Miami, Milwaukee, Minnesota, St. Louis, San Diego, Tampa Bay, Texas. But Bally currently only has streaming rights to the following teams: Detroit Tigers, Miami Marlins, Milwaukee Brewers, Tampa Bay Rays, and the Kansas City Royals. Bally is currently negotiating with other teams for streaming rights. But there are rumors that MLB at some point may want to do the in-market streaming itself and cutout the middleman.

The Bally Sports+ standalone app is live in Detroit, and the cost is $20 a month or $190 a year. That includes the Tigers, Red Wings, and Pistons, and does not require a subscription to cable or live tv stream provider.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

ohmark said:


> ………………….
> The Bally Sports+ standalone app is live in Detroit, and the cost is $20 a month or $190 a year. That includes the Tigers, Red Wings, and Pistons, and does not require a subscription to cable or live tv stream provider.


Are games only viewable live on this?


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

dlfl said:


> Are games only viewable live on this?


I _think_ it's going to offer replays of games. (I know their website does for subscribers to their cable channels.) But so far, no official communication from Bally Sports about their upcoming streaming service launching Sept. 26 says anything about on-demand replays one way or the other.


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## Scott K (Dec 9, 2018)

I have tried several times to quit BOTH Spectrum and TiVo... The primary problem for me is that within my community our HOA negotiated a 5-year contract with spectrum, and our quarterly dues now include an awesome* cable package with 500 MB/s Internet. The number of channels includes a few premium tiers, so it's hard to ignore when combined with no additional charge for internet, no charge for the cable modem, no charge for a Wi-Fi router. But still, having to deal with spectrum in combination with TiVO's lack of compassion / humanity is enough to make me wrap a rope around my neck!
What's the monthly cost for the "Dish" setup that OP (Andrew B) switched to?

*awesome = channel-lineup only... Not accounting for 5 or 6 yearly calls for service/repairs, and dealing with spectrum's (poor excuse for) customer service.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Scott K said:


> I have tried several times to quit BOTH Spectrum and TiVo... The primary problem for me is that within my community our HOA negotiated a 5-year contract with spectrum, and our quarterly dues now include an awesome* cable package with 500 MB/s Internet. The number of channels includes a few premium tiers, so it's hard to ignore when combined with no additional charge for internet, no charge for the cable modem, no charge for a Wi-Fi router. But still, having to deal with spectrum in combination with TiVO's lack of compassion / humanity is enough to make me wrap a rope around my neck!
> What's the monthly cost for the "Dish" setup that OP (Andrew B) switched to?
> 
> *awesome = channel-lineup only... Not accounting for 5 or 6 yearly calls for service/repairs, and dealing with spectrum's (poor excuse for) customer service.


If you're already paying for Spectrum internet and TV service through your HOA fees, why not try to use their TV service some other way than through a TiVo? Looks like they're offering their CableCARD-using customers right now the ability to buy an Apple TV 4K through them for half price (they give you the discount back through monthly credits to your bill, so I don't know how or if that could work on a bulk agreement like your HOA has). You'd just access your TV service through the Spectrum TV app, with cloud DVR, on the Apple TV box. Or, of course, you could use one of their crappy DVRs.

I'd have to think the replacement value for your Spectrum TV package -- if it includes the usual array of local and national channels, including regional sports network, as well as some premium services like HBO, Showtime, and/or Starz -- would be $100/mo or more. If you're getting that for "free" as part of your HOA fee, why throw it away?


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## jilted (Jan 22, 2008)

I ran 2 setups in parallel for a while:
Roamio Pro with minis - Spectrum
Channels DVR with nvidia shields - Antenna+HDHomerun and Spectrum via TVE

I'm now fully migrated to Channels DVR and nvidia shields
Local fiber for internet and YTTV (but I use it over TVE not the actual YTTV app)

It's not perfect but the devs are active.
I tried TS4K for endpoints but they are just too slow. shield pro's and ethernet connection for the win

I would totally consider a high end ($199'ish) TiVo streamer if they ever came out with one.
I miss the peanut remote more than anything.


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## ohmark (May 22, 2007)

dlfl said:


> Are games only viewable live on this?


Games are available 2 ways: 1. Live (either join live in progress or start at the beginning). 2. Replays (with between innings commercials removed and no waiting for the next inning to begin).


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## ohmark (May 22, 2007)

Just to make clear, my above responses to questions on the Bally Sports app, is based on my usage of the app with login via Uverse or Spectrum subscription. I haven't used or subscribed to the standalone Bally Sports+ app because my tv subscription includes the Bally Sports channels. However, on some occasions I've used the app (non-standalone) to watch live games and/or replays. I have no reason to believe that standalone subscription Bally Sports+ App presents the games in any way differently than the Bally Sports app that is accessible via your tv service credentials.


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## Mary D (Jul 22, 2020)

Andrew B said:


> After 6 years, I'm giving up on my current Tivo/Spectrum setup. It's clear that both companies aren't going to support (much less evolve) their hardware. For me, it's too hard to justify dependence on a CableCard, an aging TiVo Bolt and either company actually providing meaningful service.
> 
> After a ton of research, I'm going with DirecTV Stream. Essentially, it's satellite TV without the dish -- the data comes via your internet connection. From there, you can purchase a dedicated box for about $100 that connects to your WiFi or ethernet network and provides an HDMI connection and includes a fairly decent remote control. Alternatively, you can use the DirecTV Stream app on Roku or similar devices. The programming packages, as well as premium channels, are up to you. Local channels are included, but no sub-channels. No contract required. (This is different from the dish-based service where a two-year agreement is mandatory.)
> 
> ...


I too have been looking at ATT Direct Stream as Tivo alternative.. mostly sports and they carry the Reelz channel..On Patrol! 💙😄 You can get a refurb box for $50 extra rooms, etc.

Also use Dofu Live Sports App for any missing MLB games 😉
Thanks for the review.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

jilted said:


> I tried TS4K for endpoints but they are just too slow. shield pro's and ethernet connection for the win
> 
> I would totally consider a high end ($199'ish) TiVo streamer if they ever came out with one.
> I miss the peanut remote more than anything.


Have you tried pairing the TS4K's bluetooth remote with the Shield TV? And then using the Button Mapper app to customize button functions? Don't know if it would work but might be worth a shot if you've still got the TS4K remote lying around.


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## cahillbill (Dec 24, 2005)

James Rivington said:


> I would be curious about your interest in live motosports events. That's basically all I watch on live TV with my TiVo Bolt and Cox cable. All else is Netflix and Amazon. And Peacock. And even less so now that NBC is moving more and more of their live motorsports stuff to their Peacock streamer. If I went to DirecTV Stream, would I still get a lot of live motorsports? Thanks for any guidance.





Mary D said:


> I too have been looking at ATT Direct Stream as Tivo alternative.. mostly sports and they carry the Reelz channel..On Patrol! 💙😄 You can get a refurb box for $50 extra rooms, etc.
> 
> Also use Dofu Live Sports App for any missing MLB games 😉
> Thanks for the review.





NashGuy said:


> Have you tried pairing the TS4K's bluetooth remote with the Shield TV? And then using the Button Mapper app to customize button functions? Don't know if it would work but might be worth a shot if you've still got the TS4K remote lying around.


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## cahillbill (Dec 24, 2005)

I feel our pain. When the FCC discontinued the mandate for cable companies to supply cable cards, that doomed the concept. My card died, so I ditched cable, switched my Bolt to OTA. and used other devices to stream what I want that's not on OTA. Being proactive is smart. .


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## bkrodgers (Nov 16, 2002)

I regretfully made the same choice this month. I really loved my TiVos, though admittedly it was not without some frustrations on how it had stagnated. The constant reminders from Spectrum that they would soon kill CableCards and my perception that Spectrum’s cloud DVR was not likely to be a positive experience led me to think it was time to jump. I ended up trying Hulu with Live TV via a mix of Apple and google TV/shield devices. I’m fairly pleased with it. PQ is equal or better than charter I think. I’ve had a few glitches on the Apple TV app but mostly it’s good. I have a few UI complaints but nothing major. The unlimited DVR space is pretty sweet.

I did have to give up Bally’s. I’m a Chicago native living in St. Louis, so I can watch my home teams on out of market streaming, unless they’re playing STL. But I don’t hate the Blues or Cardinals (blasphemy to many, I know), and even enjoy watching them when the Hawks or Cubs aren’t competitive. But for now I’ll live without it.

The other reason I switched was that I was sick of being capped at 20Mbps uploads. AT&T Fiber was available and I’m absolutely loving being able to upload a video I took in seconds or minutes instead of hours. Of course I realize that fixing this problem is exactly why Spectrum is going to kill cable cards.

On top of all of that, my promo was running out and everything I read was that they don’t give current customers much. Base rates would have raised my price by at least $75/month. Ironically when I called to actually cancel, they did actually come back with a decent offer (a little less money than I was paying, but without HBO, showtime, and one of the channel tiers that made up the retired “silver” package). But by that point I’d made my decision and AT&T was installed.

While it wasn’t solely the TiVo thing that ultimately led me here, it does make me sad to leave it behind. As I said, I understand the reason and actually support what they’re trying to do by killing cable cards. I’m Im at least as disappointed in TiVo as I am with Spectrum that TiVo hasn’t worked harder to find a way to stay relevant and bring their strengths to the modern world. But I also understand they probably don’t have willing partners for that, and without the FCC mandating something, there probably isn’t much they could do.


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## alp44 (May 21, 2003)

jilted said:


> I ran 2 setups in parallel for a while:
> Roamio Pro with minis - Spectrum
> Channels DVR with nvidia shields - Antenna+HDHomerun and Spectrum via TVE
> 
> ...


I have two TiVo Stream 4k dongles. They are incredibly fast and include a mini peanut remote, which I love. I think they use Android based software. Really surprised me by the quality and availability of the apps. I still have 1 Tivo Mini, a Romio, a Bolt and an Edge DVR. I never used their streaming apps because, well, you know why: buggy, unstable, unsupported and inferior.


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## CopRock (Jul 13, 2014)

NashGuy said:


> Keep in mind that DTV Stream also has better HD picture quality than YTTV. (I've seen both firsthand.) In fact, I'd say DTV Stream offers the best HD picture quality of any live cable TV service in the nation (even slightly better overall than DTV satellite). And while I do think YTTV is the overall best value for lots of folks, they've been slow to roll out support for Dolby surround sound (if that matters to you) and I've seen persistent issues with out-of-sync audio on certain channels (mostly a few local ones) since my family got YTTV end of last year.


Are you able to use YTTV or DTVstream as credentials to use a particular channels app, say TLC app or HBOmax app as opposed to viewing on the streamers app?


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## jilted (Jan 22, 2008)

NashGuy said:


> Have you tried pairing the TS4K's bluetooth remote with the Shield TV? And then using the Button Mapper app to customize button functions? Don't know if it would work but might be worth a shot if you've still got the TS4K remote lying around.


I returned them since I knew they were not the right endpoints for ChannelsDVR


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## jilted (Jan 22, 2008)

alp44 said:


> I have two TiVo Stream 4k dongles. They are incredibly fast and include a mini peanut remote, which I love. I think they use Android based software. Really surprised me by the quality and availability of the apps. I still have 1 Tivo Mini, a Romio, a Bolt and an Edge DVR. I never used their streaming apps because, well, you know why: buggy, unstable, unsupported and inferior.


Remote was great but once you try a shield pro, there's no substitute... unless you go Apple TV 4k if you like hardware from a fruit company


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## CopRock (Jul 13, 2014)

Andrew B said:


> . From there, you can purchase a dedicated box for about $100 that connects to your WiFi or ethernet network and provides an HDMI connection and includes a fairly decent remote control. Alternatively, you can use the DirecTV Stream app on Roku or similar devices. The programming packages, as well as premium channels, are up to you. Local channels are included, but no sub-channels. No contract required. (This is different from the dish-based service where a two-year agreement is mandatory.)


Does the $100 dedicated box allow you to have recordings offline on the device (for when internet goes down) or is it basically a streaming device in which case I’d use my AppleTV or FireTV for it 

I’m just about ready to give up on Spectrum myself since my bill jumped from $165 to over $215 after being a customer since 1985 when it was known then as Manhattan CableTV… if I don’t get some resolution in calling I might ditch them for just Internet or even switch to Verizon FIOS since I already have an OTN box for my landline and use TiVo for what little OTA channels I get …


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

Scott K said:


> The primary problem for me is that within my community our HOA negotiated a 5-year contract with spectrum, and our quarterly dues now include an awesome* cable package with 500 MB/s Internet. The number of channels includes a few premium tiers, so it's hard to ignore when combined with no additional charge for internet, no charge for the cable modem, no charge for a Wi-Fi router.


It would be helpful to me if you could disclose the recurring monthly cost per unit of that package to your HOA. It should be spelled out in the bulk-service agreement on file with your management.

TIA.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

CopRock said:


> Are you able to use YTTV or DTVstream as credentials to use a particular channels app, say TLC app or HBOmax app as opposed to viewing on the streamers app?


Yes. 

YouTube TV:





Use YouTube TV to sign in to network sites - YouTube TV Help


If you're a YouTube TV member, you can watch TV Everywhere by signing in to certain network streaming websites using your YouTube TV sign-in info. As long as you're watching from one of the netwo



support.google.com





DirecTV Stream:








Stream Network TV With Other Network Apps | DIRECTV STREAM Customer Service & Support


Want more shows and movies? If you have DIRECTV STREAM, you can watch content on many network apps and websites.



www.directv.com


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## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

I've been testing DirecTV Stream and likely will make the switch from Xfinity/CableCARD/TiVo to DTV Stream soon. I like the DVR. I really miss the commercial autoskip with TiVo though.


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## jilted (Jan 22, 2008)

southerndoc said:


> I've been testing DirecTV Stream and likely will make the switch from Xfinity/CableCARD/TiVo to DTV Stream soon. I like the DVR. I really miss the commercial autoskip with TiVo though.


Other than just being a tech tinkerer, that's one of the reasons I went to Channels DVR... for the comskip!


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## Joey Bagadonuts (Mar 13, 2006)

Andrew B said:


> Unlimited cloud DVR which seems to work perfectly.


First, a 1000 thank you's for your extremely informative post. It is greatly appreciated. Especially for us folks who know just enough about streaming and DVR stuff to get us in trouble. I currently have two Bolts and a Premiere and Xfinity Cable/Internet. Like you, I am trying to be proactive and plan for the day when either the devices crap out or Xfinity stops supporting CableCard technology. With regard to the DVR service DTV stream offers, I noticed a note that reads, "Recordings expire after nine months." Is there an option to keep recordings until they are manually deleted (like TiVo offers) or do they go away, period? I have a number of recordings on my Bolt that are significantly old but I still enjoy dialing them up every now and then for another look-see. Next, and if this is a stupid question then so be it. It 's not my first and it surely won't be my last. Is Channel DVR compatible with DirecTV stream or are they competitors? I'd like to build a "Cadillac System" using the best of the best from different providers if possible. 

Thanks again for the informative post.


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## jilted (Jan 22, 2008)

Joey Bagadonuts said:


> Is Channel DVR compatible with DirecTV stream or are they competitors? I'd like to build a "Cadillac System" using the best of the best from different providers if possible.
> 
> Thanks again for the informative post.


Channels DVR is a standalone product.
I use Directv stream as a main "cable station source" via TVE
I've tried credentials from Spectrum, yttv, and Directv stream its all the same since you are technically getting the live feeds direct from the networks, like NBC live for example.
My current sources are:
Antenna with HD Homerun Flex 4k - in my area I can pull in 113 channels
DTV Stream - 192 channels
YTTV over TVE - 164 channels (don't use this any more)
And you can add custom live sources like:
Pluto - 337 channels
Stirr - 107 channels
Plex Live TV - 292 channels
Samsung TV - 216 channels
and they all show up in the guide just live everything else.
And best of all especially with things like Pluto is that after recording is done, com skip marks our the ridiculous number of commercial breaks haha

You can use an old PC, mac, NAS, raspi 4, or even an nvidia shield pro as the server.
I use a Synology DS718+ for mine and it's solid.


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## andy7121 (Aug 11, 2017)

Andrew B said:


> After 6 years, I'm giving up on my current Tivo/Spectrum setup


I, too, have had to give up on Spectrum interfacing with my Tivo. Spectrum actually disabled my cable card. Thanks, guys. But, interestingly enough, they have cable cards in their own DVRs. So, it's not a technical issue, it's marketing. They want to make more money by you renting one of their DVRs, rather than just renting you a cable card for $3.00 per month.

I have been using YouTube TV (YTTV) for about a week. I am 95% satisfied, compared to Tivo. With Tivo, I could look ahead 10 days to schedule a program for recording. Not so with YTTV -- just 2 days. There is no interface from YTTV to either Amazon Prime or Netflix. Searching with YTTV is not as good. 

Tivo acts as my downstream MoCA interface, so when I decide to ditch or sell my Tivo (with lifetime subscription) I will have to purchase another MoCA interface. Tivo Bridge is my upstream interface.

Here is a link to a site that compares DTV Stream and YTTV: 





YouTube TV vs. DIRECTV Stream - 2022 Comparison







cordcutting.com





*Their Verdict: YouTube TV vs. DIRECTV STREAM*
_If you’re looking for the cream of the crop in terms of live TV and on-demand content, DIRECTV STREAM offers plenty of them and then some. YouTube TV isn’t a bad choice either, especially when affordability is the name of the game. Neither service requires annual contracts, so you can cancel at any time or take advantage of their free trials to test them out before you commit. If sports are your bread and butter, DIRECTV STREAM has RSNs to get you in the cheerleading spirit. But if you prefer the familiarity of YouTube’s interface, you’ll be right at home with YouTube TV. All in all, both YouTube TV and DIRECTV STREAM are top contenders in the highly competitive skinny bundle market. It just all comes down to preference when choosing one that suits your live TV palate._


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

andy7121 said:


> I, too, have had to give up on Spectrum interfacing with my Tivo. Spectrum actually disabled my cable card. Thanks, guys. But, interestingly enough, they have cable cards in their own DVRs. So, it's not a technical issue, it's marketing. They want to make more money by you renting one of their DVRs, rather than just renting you a cable card for $3.00 per month.
> ……………


For me at least, before I cut Spectrum cable 3 years ago, there was no actual savings by using a TiVo vs. their DVR. I used a TiVo and I knew someone who used their DVR for the same channel package. The “promotional” rates we paid were the same within a dollar or two. The promotional rates, which most people get, allow them to screw you out of any bring-your-own savings.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Joey Bagadonuts said:


> With regard to the DVR service DTV stream offers, I noticed a note that reads, "Recordings expire after nine months." Is there an option to keep recordings until they are manually deleted (like TiVo offers) or do they go away, period?


The cloud DVR systems offered by DTV Stream, YouTube TV, and Hulu with Live TV all now let you store an unlimited amount of recordings but they all auto-delete your recordings after 9 months (unless you record the same episode/movie again in the interim, which will trigger a new 9-month countdown). There's no upgrade available to extend the retention period beyond 9 months. Also, I believe DTV Stream still only allows a maximum of 30 episodes recorded for any given series (which is enough to cover an entire season for most weekly shows).

Meanwhile, Fubo TV's cloud DVR has a limit on storage space -- 1,000 hours of recordings -- but you can keep individual recordings until you choose to delete them. But be aware that Fubo TV is missing the Turner nets (CNN, TBS, TNT, etc.) as well as the A+E nets (History, Lifetime, A&E, Vice).


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

andy7121 said:


> I have been using YouTube TV (YTTV) for about a week. I am 95% satisfied, compared to Tivo. With Tivo, I could look ahead 10 days to schedule a program for recording. Not so with YTTV -- just 2 days.


I've found with YTTV that rather than scrolling forward in the Live guide to set up recordings over the coming days/weeks, it's better to just use the app's Search function and look for them by name. Most devices allow you to do this using your voice remote if you prefer, rather than typing the name in via the on-screen keyboard.

Also, Google has been testing out a revamped Live guide that I think maybe goes more than just 2 days into the future. No idea if/when it's going to roll out to all users, though.


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## Joey Bagadonuts (Mar 13, 2006)

NashGuy said:


> The cloud DVR systems offered by DTV Stream, YouTube TV, and Hulu with Live TV all now let you store an unlimited amount of recordings but they all auto-delete your recordings after 9 months (unless you record the same episode/movie again in the interim, which will trigger a new 9-month countdown). There's no upgrade available to extend the retention period beyond 9 months. Also, I believe DTV Stream still only allows a maximum of 30 episodes recorded for any given series (which is enough to cover an entire season for most weekly shows).
> 
> Meanwhile, Fubo TV's cloud DVR has a limit on storage space -- 1,000 hours of recordings -- but you can keep individual recordings until you choose to delete them. But be aware that Fubo TV is missing the Turner nets (CNN, TBS, TNT, etc.) as well as the A+E nets (History, Lifetime, A&E, Vice).


Thanks Nash


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> I've found with YTTV that rather than scrolling forward in the Live guide to set up recordings over the coming days/weeks, it's better to just use the app's Search function and look for them by name. Most devices allow you to do this using your voice remote if you prefer, rather than typing the name in via the on-screen keyboard.
> 
> Also, Google has been testing out a revamped Live guide that I think maybe goes more than just 2 days into the future. No idea if/when it's going to roll out to all users, though.


On Fire stick you get a full 2 weeks of YTTV if you look in the integrated guide.

I get 10 days in the guide on the current YTTV Fire stick app. Used to be only 2 until recently.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

mdavej said:


> On Fire stick you get a full 2 weeks of YTTV if you look in the integrated guide.
> ……….


And that integrated guide is in the Fire TV UI, not in the YTTV app UI. It’s useless for scheduling recordings. You can’t select a show 2 weeks in the future and put it in your “library”. You have to go back into the YTTV UI and search for or scroll (slowly) to the show before you can do that.

The only advantages of the “integrated” guide are that it’s faster to navigate and it can skip forward a complete day with a single button press.

The guide in the YTTV UI (on my Fire Cube at least) also goes out at least 10 days but it takes a semi-infinite number of button presses to reach that point.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

mdavej said:


> On Fire stick you get a full 2 weeks of YTTV if you look in the integrated guide.
> 
> I get 10 days in the guide on the current YTTV Fire stick app. Used to be only 2 until recently.


Sounds like Google has switched on the updated live guide in YTTV for you. It's been coming and going on a user-by-user basis all summer. Weird rollout.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

dlfl said:


> And that integrated guide is in the Fire TV UI, not in the YTTV app UI. It’s useless for scheduling recordings. You can’t select a show 2 weeks in the future and put it in your “library”. You have to go back into the YTTV UI and search for or scroll (slowly) to the show before you can do that.
> 
> The only advantages of the “integrated” guide are that it’s faster to navigate and it can skip forward a complete day with a single button press.
> 
> The guide in the YTTV UI (on my Fire Cube at least) also goes out at least 10 days but it takes a semi-infinite number of button presses to reach that point.


Correct on all counts. Scrolling across the guide in the YTTV UI is carpal tunnel and coma inducing. And the Fire guide is useless for recordings.

Searching for shows works fine for me. There's really no reason for me to every look through the guide except when I want to watch something live. To be honest, I doubt I watch YTTV more than a couple of hours per week since I have so many other streaming options.


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## explainer10 (Sep 22, 2007)

chiguy50 said:


> Have you compared the VQ/AQ on these services against Hulu/LiveTV? If so, how do they stack up?


Leaving TIVO and Spectrum. I found that I could get a good 5G signal from T-Mobile in my 95037 zip code, so I made the switch, cut the cord from Spectrum and retired my old Tivo. I have found that YouTubeTV can be used to create a library, ala Tivo, so I am a happy camper.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

mdavej said:


> Correct on all counts. Scrolling across the guide in the YTTV UI is carpal tunnel and coma inducing. And the Fire guide is useless for recordings.
> 
> Searching for shows works fine for me. There's really no reason for me to every look through the guide except when I want to watch something live. To be honest, I doubt I watch YTTV more than a couple of hours per week since I have so many other streaming options.


The whole YTTV UI/UX is designed to be based around the Home and Library tabs (i.e. it's really designed for a post-cable, streaming-first generation). The Live tab is mainly just for when you're nostalgic for old-style cable channel surfing. (And depending on the device/remote you have, you may not even be able to surf directly from one live channel to another without going back into the Live tab in between playing different channels. The Onn Android TV box's remote does allow it via dedicated channel up/down buttons, which is nice.)


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

James Rivington said:


> I would be curious about your interest in live motosports events. That's basically all I watch on live TV with my TiVo Bolt and Cox cable. All else is Netflix and Amazon. And Peacock. And even less so now that NBC is moving more and more of their live motorsports stuff to their Peacock streamer. If I went to DirecTV Stream, would I still get a lot of live motorsports? Thanks for any guidance.


The only live auto racing moved that I know of is IndyCar practice/qualifying and the Toronto race this year. NASCAR is also still on cable channels or NBC. Not sure about IMSA et al, don't follow sports cars but I've seen plenty of those on cable too. MotoGP has been on CNBC since beginning of this year.


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## djw (Jan 20, 2003)

I too am jumping ship this month on Spectrum, my 4 TiVo boxes (all the channel adapter paraphernalia) and living with YTTV as a looong time user (been a user a long time as my join date shows). The YTTV interfaces still stinks compared to TiVo, but for us it is 1/3 the price and 2x the flexibility. We've tried the Roku interface, Fire TV devices and I also have a Nvidia Shield running a little Plex server, and also a Raspberry PI or two as backups for the Plex.

Not sure where we will ultimately end up. I looked at Channels DVR briefly, but it seems pretty green/rough right now, but maybe I should look more. Don't have a Homerun set-up and doubtful that I would go there, just trying with their TV Everywhere beta.

I have not found anything better than the Shield, but maybe running their 9+ plus Plex Server experience makes it need a reboot almost daily - that said it is otherwise fast and reliable.

Still searching for a new ideal home so thanks for posting all this.


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## jilted (Jan 22, 2008)

djw said:


> I too am jumping ship this month on Spectrum, my 4 TiVo boxes (all the channel adapter paraphernalia) and living with YTTV as a looong time user (been a user a long time as my join date shows). The YTTV interfaces still stinks compared to TiVo, but for us it is 1/3 the price and 2x the flexibility. We've tried the Roku interface, Fire TV devices and I also have a Nvidia Shield running a little Plex server, and also a Raspberry PI or two as backups for the Plex.
> 
> Not sure where we will ultimately end up. I looked at Channels DVR briefly, but it seems pretty green/rough right now, but maybe I should look more. Don't have a Homerun set-up and doubtful that I would go there, just trying with their TV Everywhere beta.
> 
> ...


Definitely keep going with Channels. I have full family buy in now it just took a little time to unlearn years of tivo navigation!
I feel its the best "one hdmi input for all" solution for a tivo diehard.
it's only gotten better over the past year.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

series5orpremier said:


> I wouldn't have much use for Bally Sports until March anyway, so if I go streaming I can go cheap and see what the landscape looks like next year.


There’s a possibility Ballly is going to sell their RSN’s:








Sinclair reportedly hires investment banks in potential lead-up to sale of Bally Sports RSNs


Could the Bally Sports RSNs be on the market? It seems like a possibility. On Monday night, John Ourand of the Sports Business Journal reported that Sinclair had hired a pair of investment banks, LionTree and Moelis. Liontree is the bank hired by The Athletic last year to look for a buyer...



awfulannouncing.com




Although I don’t know how much to trust a site called awfulannouncing.com 

Not likely but we can at least hope (it springs eternal!) for better RSN streaming deals if this happens.


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

dlfl said:


> There’s a possibility Ballly is going to sell their RSN’s:
> ...
> Although I don’t know how much to trust a site called awfulannouncing.com


While the site name may be interesting, that facts that Sinclair has ~$8B debt is well reported, and many financial people looked at that debt load during the Sinclair acquisition of the RSNs and came to the conclusion that the cash flows were not going to be able to support that long term, as even in a world where people want live sports they were not going to be willing to pay enough to make the business successful without what had been a captive market (i.e. required carriage on MSOs). Of course Sinclair management thought otherwise, believing streaming could work (and the pandemic both hurt and helped the story), but to cover their assets did do some financial wizardry to spin off the RSNs to a subsidiary so that if they were wrong, the Sinclair group would be somewhat protected (maybe). And they have completed a recent round of debt restructure (pushing off payment for another few years). The hiring of bankers who specialize in debt reduction suggests that Sinclair management is looking at options. One option would be for debt holders to convert debt to equity stakes, but unless there is a clear showing of a profitable business that does not seem to be an attractive choice to the bond holders. But bankruptcy is also not an attractive choice for Sinclair, nor the bond holders, nor the teams who (likely (we do not know the contact terms)) would not get paid during the bankruptcy proceedings while Sinclair could still carry the games. Selling the RSNs (to, presumably, someone with deep enough pockets to avoid the debt load) may be a way out (if you can find a buyer and the contracts for the currently carried teams are of a long enough duration to insure continued carriage for some time; note that all the leagues (of the major sports) are looking at their options for streaming, too.).



> Not likely but we can at least hope (it springs eternal!) for better RSN streaming deals if this happens.


The only way the deals will get better long term may be if in bankruptcy Sinclair can substantially renegotiate the deals (i.e. pay a lot lot less) with the teams (possibly dropping some to be able to pay more for the preferred ones). As the contracts with the teams and Sinclair are not public, how much flexibility is even possible is unknown (there are league issues involved with at least some teams).


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

CommunityMember said:


> The only way the deals will get better long term may be if in bankruptcy Sinclair can substantially renegotiate the deals (i.e. pay a lot lot less) with the teams (possibly dropping some to be able to pay more for the preferred ones). As the contracts with the teams and Sinclair are not public, how much flexibility is even possible is unknown (there are league issues involved with at least some teams).


I think the likeliest outcome of all this is that the leagues (and in some cases, individual teams) form a consortium to buy out Sinclair's RSN business and then use it as shared operational assets (e.g. equipment, camera operators, on-screen talent, and of course contractual rights) to deliver live games and other content to the separate leagues/teams for their own DTC apps and cable networks. Most teams will opt to have their in-market games sold to consumers under the league's overall app (e.g. the MLB.tv app that already sells all teams' out-of-market games), although a few of the richest teams from the largest markets (e.g. NY Yankees, Chicago Cubs) will spend more up front to be able to own and distribute their content through their own separate DTC team app. As for the cable networks that will replace the existing RSNs, e.g. Bally Sports South, I expect we'll see individual team-branded channels (even if they're owned and distributed by the league), e.g. Atlanta Braves Network, Nashville Predators Network, etc. Any cable TV customer who pays for the team network (probably as an a la carte add-on to the base bundle) would just get streaming access to that same content via the same league/team app (i.e. cable authenticated) that serves DTC customers (the same way the existing HBO Max app serves HBO cable subs as well as DTC streaming subs).


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## djw (Jan 20, 2003)

jilted said:


> Definitely keep going with Channels. I have full family buy in now it just took a little time to unlearn years of tivo navigation!
> I feel its the best "one hdmi input for all" solution for a tivo diehard.
> it's only gotten better over the past year.


You are correct. Spending more time with Channels is enlightening. I think it is a formidable replacement and shutting down the array of Spectrum (and beloved) TiVo support will more than pay for it. I am pretty astounded what it can do with an rpi, hdhr and a TVE subscription.

Thanks.


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## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

djw said:


> You are correct. Spending more time with Channels is enlightening. I think it is a formidable replacement and shutting down the array of Spectrum (and beloved) TiVo support will more than pay for it.
> 
> Thanks.


I don't understand why TiVo can't do what Channels DVR did and create a way to record from TVEverywhere.


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## jilted (Jan 22, 2008)

southerndoc said:


> I don't understand why TiVo can't do what Channels DVR did and create a way to record from TVEverywhere.


Even Plex has been ignoring the community requests for TVE.

I guess the biggest issue with TiVo in 2022 is that TiVo isn't really TiVo any more


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## DigitalDawn (Apr 26, 2009)

djw said:


> You are correct. Spending more time with Channels is enlightening. I think it is a formidable replacement and shutting down the array of Spectrum (and beloved) TiVo support will more than pay for it.
> 
> Thanks.


How's the video quality on Channels DVR?


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

southerndoc said:


> I don't understand why TiVo can't do what Channels DVR did and create a way to record from TVEverywhere.


It’s probably illegal. If you read the fine print, I bet it says thou shalt not record our streams. I’m kind of surprised Channels has flown under the radar this long. Enjoy it while it lasts.


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## jilted (Jan 22, 2008)

mdavej said:


> It’s probably illegal. If you read the fine print, I bet it says thou shalt not record our streams. I’m kind of surprised Channels has flown under the radar this long. Enjoy it while it lasts.


You have to be a subscriber so you are only accessing what you are paying for  




__





wTVE - Cookie Warning







www.wtve.net




Lots of providers support it.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

jilted said:


> You have to be a subscriber so you are only accessing what you are paying for
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, but you are screen scraping a stream that's not intended to be recordable, essentially circumventing their encryption and violating their terms and conditions. So yes, you can legally stream it since you pay for it, and you can record the linear channel via cable card. But recording in this way is questionable, and probably the reason no mainstream company like Tivo is doing it.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

southerndoc said:


> I don't understand why TiVo can't do what Channels DVR did and create a way to record from TVEverywhere.





mdavej said:


> Yeah, but you are screen scraping a stream that's not intended to be recordable, essentially circumventing their encryption and violating their terms and conditions. So yes, you can legally stream it since you pay for it, and you can record the linear channel via cable card. But recording in this way is questionable, and probably the reason no mainstream company like Tivo is doing it.


Yeah. And aside from the legal gray area that TV Everywhere recordings is in, TiVo has no interest in developing such capabilities because it would only serve a niche retail DVR consumer base (and one that's already being catered to by Channels). I don't see how TVE recording could be useful to either of the main businesses that TiVo now cares about, tech solutions for pay TV partners (e.g. STBs and cloud DVR for IPTV providers) and smart TV software for TV manufacturers.


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## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

I love Channels, but wish it had more of a TiVo-esque interface.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

southerndoc said:


> I love Channels, but wish it had more of a TiVo-esque interface.


The guy(s) who runs Channels seems pretty attentive to the user community. You should make specific requests via their website in terms of how you'd like the user interface and feature set to change going forward. I imagine that a significant chunk of the Channels user base are current or former TiVo owners/fans.


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## jilted (Jan 22, 2008)

NashGuy said:


> The guy(s) who runs Channels seems pretty attentive to the user community. You should make specific requests via their website in terms of how you'd like the user interface and feature set to change going forward. I imagine that a significant chunk of the Channels user base are current or former TiVo owners/fans.


Are you talking Hydra or previous gen? I despise Hydra. Mainly because they didn't carry over the Live Guide. Which is something I have requested from Channels but I'm ok without it since I really try to use passes more efficiently and almost never watch live or channel surf any more.

I do like the per device level control and also the forced downstream settings you can do from the server. It's super tweakable.

Another one that I'd like to have is the recordings folders like TiVo so all eps of a show are in one spot and not just a newest to oldest linear list. But... they do have a "Library" menu setting which is pretty much the same thing, just in a different 2 top level menu areas. Then subdivided by tv and movie.

When I go back and power up my tivo after the better part of a year, the ui looks old now. But the peanut remote... best ever... period.


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## djw (Jan 20, 2003)

southerndoc said:


> I don't understand why TiVo can't do what Channels DVR did and create a way to record from TVEverywhere.


It could probably save TiVo if they could do it as well as Channels.

Granted, I can't hope to understand TiVo's revenue streams, contractual commitments and lock-ins, and relationships with networks & broadcasters that might prevent them from building similar TVE capabilities into their software. But looking at the quality of their development on apps (i.e. horrible), it seems way too late to catch-up and re-engineer for the concept of a whole-house DVR with their excellent UI.


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## jilted (Jan 22, 2008)

djw said:


> It could probably save TiVo if they could do it as well as Channels.
> 
> Granted, I can't hope to understand TiVo's revenue streams, contractual commitments and lock-ins, and relationships with networks & broadcasters that might prevent them from building similar TVE capabilities into their software. But looking at the quality of their development on apps, it seems way too late to catch-up and re-engineer for the concept of a whole-house DVR with their excellent UI.


I think they farted around too long changing with the times just like Blackberry with phones and missed the wave.

I this I said it earlier in this thread... I would totally buy a high end TiVo/Android streamer if they made one with comparable horsepower to a shield Pro or Apple TV 4K.
I liked the TS4K visually and the remote of course but as a ChannelsDVR endpoint... meh.


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## DigitalDawn (Apr 26, 2009)

NashGuy said:


> The guy(s) who runs Channels seems pretty attentive to the user community. You should make specific requests via their website in terms of how you'd like the user interface and feature set to change going forward. I imagine that a significant chunk of the Channels user base are current or former TiVo owners/fans.


How's the video quality of TVE?


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## jilted (Jan 22, 2008)

My main tv is a 77" OLED and everything is fine maybe a little pixelated if you are close to the tv but that's pretty much anything that's not in 4k though.


From a numbers perspective...

Here's a Science channel show TVE: (not sure why fps is like that on SCI)









Fox News TVE:










Yellowstone (paramount?) TVE:











For comparison, here's a network OTA recording:









HBO movie from when I still had a cablecard and an HDHR Prime:


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Somebody made this spreadsheet showing video quality of the various TVE everywhere networks


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## John Conover (Oct 23, 2019)

southerndoc said:


> I love Channels, but wish it had more of a TiVo-esque interface.


I really want Channels to add frame by frame. The NFL is the only sport I watch and streaming devices stink at trying to re-watch a play or skip forward 30 seconds. DirectTV satellite and TiVo seem to be the only options where the DVR is streaming the video from a hard drive. Combine that with a good remote(like the peanut 4K or regular TiVo) and it works really well. Not sure why streaming devices don't make a high end model where there is a hard drive and a bigger remote.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

John Conover said:


> DirectTV satellite and TiVo seem to be the only options where the DVR is streaming the video from a hard drive.


There's also Dish satellite, with their acclaimed Hopper DVRs.


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## John Conover (Oct 23, 2019)

NashGuy said:


> There's also Dish satellite, with their acclaimed Hopper DVRs.


I think when I originally checked Dish, the satellite dish needed to be pointed in the woods so there was no way for me to receive it. If DirectTV stream would let you use thier DVR(instead of keeping it in the cloud), that would be a nice option and get rid of all the lag plus you could have frame by frame.


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## jilted (Jan 22, 2008)

John Conover said:


> I really want Channels to add frame by frame. The NFL is the only sport I watch and streaming devices stink at trying to re-watch a play or skip forward 30 seconds. DirectTV satellite and TiVo seem to be the only options where the DVR is streaming the video from a hard drive. Combine that with a good remote(like the peanut 4K or regular TiVo) and it works really well. Not sure why streaming devices don't make a high end model where there is a hard drive and a bigger remote.


I liked frame by frame but not for sports... for "the scene" from Fast Times at Ridgemont High  
Did you request it on their forum? Or has anyone else?


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## John Conover (Oct 23, 2019)

jilted said:


> I liked frame by frame but not for sports... for "the scene" from Fast Times at Ridgemont High
> Did you request it on their forum? Or has anyone else?


That's funny. On occasion I've used it for looking at some fight scene in a Scifi movie. 
I have followed their forum and they have looked at it but as of a couple years ago it had not made it to the top of their priority list. If you examine how much hard core NFL fans spend on going to games, buying Team jerseys and other stuff, spending a few hundred on a high end streamer is cheap.


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## Joey Bagadonuts (Mar 13, 2006)

jilted said:


> I liked frame by frame but not for sports... for "the scene" from Fast Times at Ridgemont High


When Spicoli had the pizza delivered to the Mr. Hand's classroom, right? I loved that scene, too!


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## jilted (Jan 22, 2008)

Joey Bagadonuts said:


> When Spicoli had the pizza delivered to the Mr. Hand's classroom, right? I loved that scene, too!


That or Judge Reinhold wackin it


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## duncan7 (Sep 17, 2004)

cwoody222 said:


> You say it’s clear TiVo/Spectrum won’t support… did you have issues they refused to resolve?


It’s not so much a matter of _refused_. My two TA’s have had blinking yellow lights and I haven’t gotten some SDV channels for years. Multiple truck rolls, hours of conversation with support in which I make it clear that we’re dealing with CableCARD devices and receive assurances that the techs will be prepared. Then, on the day, someone gets rerouted and I get a tech who has never seen a TiVo before. Each time, every coax run gets an inch shorter because all they know how to do is crimp on a fresh connector. Still no NFL network on my TiVo, but the spectrum app on my smart TVs gets it, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.


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