# So it seems



## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Discussion of putting expanded disks in a VM TiVo is verboten.

Talking of expansion has always been allowed here.

Would a mod care to make the change of policy explicit, and perhaps explain it?

*MOD EDIT:* As the thread is well established I'll edit the opening post. The original thread was removed at the authors request only!


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Perhaps because, unlike Sky+ boxes, our S1s and Tivos in the US (and every other DVR on the market) we *don't own* our Tivos and therefore they believe that they should not be encouraging the practise of breaking the T&C of our contracts.


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## pteronaut (Dec 26, 2009)

cwaring said:


> Perhaps because, unlike Sky+ boxes, our S1s and Tivos in the US (and every other DVR on the market) we *don't own* our Tivos.


You're missing the short lived Comcast TiVo.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

pteronaut said:


> You're missing the short lived Comcast TiVo.


Only possibly because we're in the UK and not the US and so I don't know every little detail on Tivo's boxes in the US


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## VirginMediaPhil (Nov 27, 2009)

Actually, beeswax requested the thread be removed, so it was.

Nothing stopping him opening another one.


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## pteronaut (Dec 26, 2009)

cwaring said:


> Only possibly because we're in the UK and not the US and so I don't know every little detail on Tivo's boxes in the US


Yet there is a subforum titled "[URL="http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=62]HD Comcast TiVo DVR[/URL]" on TCF that you would have noticed one time on another.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

pteronaut said:


> Yet there is a subforum titled "[URL="http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=62]HD Comcast TiVo DVR[/URL]" on TCF that you would have noticed one time on another.


As I have no reason to visit the US forums then no, I can't say I have noticed


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Perhaps because, unlike Sky+ boxes, our S1s and Tivos in the US (and every other DVR on the market) we *don't own* our Tivos and therefore they believe that they should not be encouraging the practise of breaking the T&C of our contracts.


Where in the T&C does it say you can't fit a larger drive? Please quote the line.

If you took the disk out and sold it, clearly that would be wrong, but taking it to bits isn't in and of itself wrong just because it's rented. So long as you put it back together in working order when you have to return it then no harm no foul. VM don't offer a 2TB option so you can't claim you're depriving them of revenue.

You could argue you're saving wear and tear on the original drive and doing VM a favour!


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Oh come on, Stuart. I assumed you actually had some common sense/morals/decency. Call it what you want.

If something is not yours you don't touch it other than to use it for what it is supposed to be for.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

It's a PVR, "morals" and " decency" are over stating thing just a tad don't you think?

If I'd paid £150 separate from the rental for something I didn't own (run that one past me again?) I wouldn't have any moral problem with taking the lid off it. If I broke it I'd owe them, but no law would have been broken.

You forgot to quote the line of T&C you keep saying this would break, just a reminder...?


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

So if the t+c's say you can't connect to the service if you modify the device ( as in S1 contracts), that's a lesser breaking of the t+c's than opening a rented box ?

It's all technically breaking t+c's

Although VM don't appear to have a specific clause banning it, just a rather bizarre "don't remove a label"

As far as "morals" - well that begins with service theft I.e getting channels for free


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## beeswax (Jun 2, 2011)

Yes, I requested the thread be deleted (although I stated I would prefer it just be cleaned up but I guess the mods couldn't be bothered with that option) as it had gone the way that this one appears to be going! Seeing as one particular member here will probably just derail any new threads as well, I pretty much can't be bothered.


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## beeswax (Jun 2, 2011)

cwaring said:


> As I have no reason to visit the US forums


Taxi!


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

^ Is that supposed to be funny or and insult or something? I never did get it.

Also, seeing as how the only reason you registered was to discuss something that you did not know you couldn't (or shouldn't maybe) do, and now you *do* know, what would the point in another thread be?


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## VirginMediaPhil (Nov 27, 2009)

beeswax said:


> Yes, I requested the thread be deleted (although I stated I would prefer it just be cleaned up but I guess the mods couldn't be bothered with that option) as it had gone the way that this one appears to be going! Seeing as one particular member here will probably just derail any new threads as well, I pretty much can't be bothered.


When it's all done, please at least make a thread with your final post on it all with photos and such.


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## beeswax (Jun 2, 2011)

cwaring said:


> Also, seeing as how the only reason you registered was to discuss something that you did not know you couldn't (or shouldn't maybe) do, and now you *do* know, what would the point in another thread be?


And therein lies the whole problem Carl, I am fully aware that it's something that maybe shouldn't be done but decided that I'm going to do it anyway, you seem unable to comprehend this. I posted here because I assumed we could have an open and free discussion on the technicalities and results of the process regardless of VM's stance on the issue.

All you had to do in the original thread was point out that VM's Ts&Cs might be broken if I proceeded and that I should be prepared for the consequences if I do go ahead. I'm willing to accept the risk (so long as no labels have to be broken/removed).

You seem unable to accept that someone might do something even if you say they shouldn't. As much as I think you would like it, you have no control over what I do or don't do. The most you can do is post advice but be a champ and just post it once in future would you? Also, try to get used to the idea that not all people will heed your advice all the time; you aren't as important as you seem to think you are.


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## beeswax (Jun 2, 2011)

VirginMediaPhil said:


> When it's all done, please at least make a thread with your final post on it all with photos and such.


Hi Phil, yes I will let you know how I get on. I didn't want to start a new thread too soon before I get to actually do it as it would probably get filled with garbage.


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

TCM2007 said:


> Discussion of putting expanded disks in a VM TiVo is verboten.
> 
> Talking of expansion has always been allowed here.
> 
> Would a mod care to make the change of policy explicit, and perhaps explain it?


As already quoted by the original author - the thread was removed at the originators request and not due to its originally planned content.

I've edited the opening post to clearify this to new readers.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Sorry to jump to the wrong conclusion OzSat.


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

However, if the T&C section for VM it says (with some bits highlighted by me):

D Using the services

1: You are responsible for the way the services are used. *You must not* use the services to *do any of the following* acts or allow anyone else to use the services to do the following acts:
g. Copy, distribute, *attempt to disassemble,* decompile, create derivative works of, reverse-engineer, *modify,* sub-license, or use for any other purposes *any software or equipment we and/or Virgin Media Entertainment provide*

I'm personally not prepared to discuss the mater further - just pointing out my observations. Its your risk.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Like I said, it's all in the T&C. However, all points of view have now been clearly stated so I will leave it there.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

"g" is clearly from its context referring to disassembly in the programming sense:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disassembler


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## alextegg (May 21, 2002)

beeswax said:


> Taxi!


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## alextegg (May 21, 2002)

TCM2007 said:


> "g" is clearly from its context referring to disassembly in the programming sense:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disassembler


Absolutely, they are clearly concerned about the IPR of their product (i.e. the software - hence 'disassemble' in that sense), if you remove and keep the original disc, upgrade to a 2TB and put the old one back when you return it, I highly doubt they would care, and certainly wouldn't pursue you for it, given they lose nothing.


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## alextegg (May 21, 2002)

cwaring said:


> Oh come on, Stuart. I assumed you actually had some common sense/morals/decency




Seriously Carl!?


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## WooLLsterQ (Feb 14, 2011)

Trust me, you are not allowed to upgrade the HDD's.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

I'm sure you're not supposed to, but the do seem to have omitted that from the T&Cs!


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Probably because they didn't think it necessary given the other clauses, the fact that it's rented equipment and given that most of their customers probably wouldn't even know *how* to.

They probably didn't consider the sort of person who would look to find any possibly justification they can find (ie not explicitly being told they can't or twisiting some clause or other) for doing so.


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

cwaring said:


> Like I said, it's all in the T&C. However, all points of view have now been clearly stated *so I will leave it there*.


That bit was forgotten quickly


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Probably because they didn't think it necessary given the other clauses, the fact that it's rented equipment and given that most of their customers probably wouldn't even know *how* to.
> 
> They probably didn't consider the sort of person who would look to find any possibly justification they can find (ie not explicitly being told they can't or twisiting some clause or other) for doing so.


That's why you have T&Cs Carl.

If you're not stealing or damaging the rented equipment then the law doesn't come in to play, so if you want to set rules you have state them.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Well another thread mentioning VM TiVo HDD upgrades just got zapped

so its officially a forbidden subject on here now


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

Yes - confirmed by the Forum Administration the the topic is not for these forums.

Unless you are able to convince them that the subject is not against VM's T&C - then no further discussion of upgrading VirginMedia owned equipment will be accepted.


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