# Premium Side loading - copy once solution



## bradleys

Very cool:



> In other CES / TiVo news, it's still showing off the network DVR concept that we loved -- but no cable companies have bit on yet -- and have added the ability to stream its cloud TiVo service to Chromecast and Roku. The mobile apps have upgrades coming too: iOS gets OnePass support in February and *"premium sideloading" (the ability to transfer recordings from premium channels like HBO that in some cases had been blocked until now) soon.* On Android a completely rebuilt native app is coming soon, and OnePass is expected in March.


http://www.engadget.com/2015/01/07/tivo-onepass/


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## consumedsoul

bradleys said:


> Very cool:
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2015/01/07/tivo-onepass/


FINALLY! (Premium channels copy once)


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## Dan203

This should be good news to those in TWC territory where they flag everything. At least there will be a way for them to download shows. I just hope that it uses some sort of "check out" system, where you can reinstate the recording to the main TiVo, and not a one way system that deletes the recording from the TiVo forever if you transfer it to a mobile device.


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## ellinj

Dan203 said:


> This should be good news to those in TWC territory where they flag everything. At least there will be a way for them to download shows. I just hope that it uses some sort of "check out" system, where you can reinstate the recording to the main TiVo, and not a one way system that deletes the recording from the TiVo forever if you transfer it to a mobile device.


Most of the stuff that I would want to use this on is aired multiple times, I suppose I could just record it twice. What I really wish is that they would make downloading easier, run in the background or something.


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## 59er

Dan203 said:


> This should be good news to those in TWC territory where they flag everything. At least there will be a way for them to download shows. I just hope that it uses some sort of "check out" system, where you can reinstate the recording to the main TiVo, and not a one way system that deletes the recording from the TiVo forever if you transfer it to a mobile device.


Yes, if this doesn't force deletion (just locks it up on the TiVo temporarily) this could be an amazing upgrade for me.


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## Dan203

ellinj said:


> What I really wish is that they would make downloading easier, run in the background or something.


This is an Apple limitation. They do not allow apps to run in the background. There is a API that was added in iOS7 that allows downloads to continue in the background, but it works by having the app hand off the entire download task to the system. This wouldn't really work for TiVo because of the way the Stream works. The Stream uses HLS, which encodes the video as thousands of little 2 second segments. When you download a show the TiVo app simply saves those segments to disc. So it's not really downloading one file, it's downloading thousands of files which would be impractical, or impossible, to pass off to the system downloader.


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## ellinj

Dan203 said:


> This is an Apple limitation. They do not allow apps to run in the background. There is a API that was added in iOS7 that allows downloads to continue in the background, but it works by having the app hand off the entire download task to the system. This wouldn't really work for TiVo because of the way the Stream works. The Stream uses HLS, which encodes the video as thousands of little 2 second segments. When you download a show the TiVo app simply saves those segments to disc. So it's not really downloading one file, it's downloading thousands of files which would be impractical, or impossible, to pass off to the system downloader.


I am not sure that this is 100% true, my third party podcast app will refresh feeds and download new episodes even when it isn't running. Which could be multiple feeds, and multiple files. I don't see much difference.


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## Fofer

Dan203 said:


> This should be good news to those in TWC territory where they flag everything. At least there will be a way for them to download shows. I just hope that it uses some sort of "check out" system, where you can reinstate the recording to the main TiVo, and not a one way system that deletes the recording from the TiVo forever if you transfer it to a mobile device.


YES!!! I really hope this is the answer to my prayers. I've got all the ingredients in place but TWC's CCI flag ruins everything. I was about to just give up and buy a Slingbox but now I'm going to wait and see what this "premium sideloading" is all about. I'm hoping the transfer (or whatever it is) can be initiated remotely, and not only when at home.

These great announcements from TiVo are making me happier I upgraded my 2-Tuner Premiere to a Roamio Plus w/Mini last month.


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## Fofer

> iOS premium sideloading
> 
> Recent changes to security protocols have made it possible for TiVo to offer premium sideloading for iOS devices. This feature, projected for release in the first half of 2015, will enable TiVo customers to download shows from premium channels such as HBO to their iOS device without violating transmission or copyright provisions.
> 
> *NOTE: Due to one-time licensing requirements, once a premium-channel show is downloaded to the mobile device, it is deleted from the TiVo set-top box.*


http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3006


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## Dan203

Boooo! :down:

DirecTV and Comcast both offer a "check out" system, rather then a move system. I mean it's better then nothing, but hopefully TiVo can work out a better system down the line.


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## Fofer

Doesn't DirecTV also let you stream CCI-flagged content outside the home?

Sometimes I wish TiVo would take bigger risks, you know, the way ReplayTV did (gulp.)


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## Arcady

The only channel I would want to sideload is HBO. I guess I could just record the show twice (on HBO and HBO Pacific) or record it on two boxes, so one copy can be used for iOS transfer.

But for people on TWC, you're still screwed.


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## Fofer

Arcady said:


> But for people on TWC, you're still screwed.


Why do you say that? I thought sideloading was good news for TWC customers with lots of CCI flagged recordings. Being able to sideload is better than not being able to copy at all (and only able to stream inside the home.)

Are you saying TWC customers are precluded from sideloading too?


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## Arcady

No, I'm saying that once you copy the show to your iOS device, you lose the show on your TiVo. And since almost everything is copy-once on TWC, you'd have to record everything twice if you want the show on both the TiVo and the iOS device. Not everything comes on twice.


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## Fofer

I guess "screwed" is a relative term, then. We're better off than we were before. At least now we have the OPTION to move a recording. Better than not being able to move it at all, at least. 

I hold on to hope that one day, TWC will follow the leads of other cable co's and loosen their grip. Look at what Bright House did recently: Bright House Lifts TiVo Streaming Restrictions

What can I say, I'm an eternal optimist


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## Arcady

Wow, that's cool that BH fixed the CCI issue. I never understood why any cable company would purposely set the flag wrong anyway. Maybe there's hope for TWC after all (or if Comcast buys them, they can fix it.)


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## Fofer

FWIW, local channels are fine on TWC. It's all the non-locals that they set the CCI flag on.


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## Arcady

Oh I know, I had TWC for years before I moved to Comcast-land. Going from that to being able to freely move and copy almost every channel, plus on-demand being available was like night and day. Also, no SDV & tuning adapters. I dread the day I have to move again and TWC is the only option.


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## Fofer

Thankfully I don't need a tuning adapter. I think there are 4-5 channels on SDV and I don't watch any of them.


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## alleybj

Fofer said:


> Doesn't DirecTV also let you stream CCI-flagged content outside the home?
> 
> Sometimes I wish TiVo would take bigger risks, you know, the way ReplayTV did (gulp.)


Directv lets you stream and/or place a copy on your iphone/ipad with no restrictions. You can do it for all shows except those that were downloaded from an on demand channel (you may be able to stream those, but you can't copy them). For shows you copy, they stay on your receiver, but they delete automatically from your iphone/ipad after a couple of weeks or so.


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## Fofer

All of that seems reasonable. It's annoying that TiVo doesn't work the same way, although I understand they're operating under some other entities' set of rules. Still, I'd love to know the specifics behind why we can stream CCI-flagged content inside the home, but not outside the home. I thought streaming was a way to reasonably work around the "copy once" restriction? Later we learned that the "copy once" restriction could only be worked around while inside the home? 

It all just seems so silly to me, and makes me want to pirate content, with ads removed, instead. /smh


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## Dan203

TiVo has to abide by the rules of CableCARDs set by Cable Labs. DirecTV is a provider so they have direct relationships with the content providers and can work out different deals.


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## Fofer

I understand that. Then I'll continue to direct my annoyance at Time Warner for setting the CCI flag on all non-local content, and at Cable Labs for setting up a stupid rule that only allows me to stream that recorded content inside my own home and not when I'm traveling, in the position I'm most likely to be in when I actually want to be streaming it.


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## Dan203

Actually there is no rule that specifically prevents TiVo from streaming protected content outside the home. There is no rule that governs streaming at all. TiVo seems to follow precedent in these situations. They didn't offer the Mini or in home streaming until after cable DVRs started offering the feature. Now that Comcast adds premium side loading TiVo follows suit. However OOH streaming is unique to TiVo. Most of the MSOs have an app that allows access to live channels or VOD outside the home so they don't feel the need for OOH streaming from a DVR. So TiVo seems to be erroring on the side of caution on that one. Either that or they asked Cable Labs privately and were told they could only stream unprotected shows OOH. Not sure. But there is definitely no public rule/law governing OOH streaming.


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## Fofer

Makes sense.

Well, I'll direct a little of my annoyance back at TiVo, then. They shouldn't "err on the side of caution" so much on this one. Let users _stream_ any and all content. Just because something may be set "copy once," it makes no sense that they'll let us stream it inside the house, but not outside. If this is a private instruction that Cable Labs issued them, I think this is something they should have gone to bat over, and fought for. Of course, I'm typing this as a TWC customer who now has every single other ingredient in place. So close and yet so far...

I do appreciate that TiVo takes the slow and steady road, and that their products work pretty darn well. I'd just like them to be a bit more aggressive, is all.

Thankfully at least the SlingPlayer options get more enticing and less expensive, every day. I just wish it didn't feel like such an inelegant kludge, when TiVo could offer me a much more integrated and elegant solution instead.


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## Arcady

When I was on TWC I gave up and went the SlingBox route.

I currently have it working on my laptop with a real TiVo remote (the bluetooth version) and I can connect the laptop to a TV with HDMI (in a hotel room) and it works great, as long as the hotel WiFi/ethernet is good enough. (Or I can tether my laptop to my phone and use LTE.) Slingbox handles slow connection speeds better than the TiVo app, but there is some lag in remote presses that you'll get used to and compensate for. But I'm overall very happy with the solution, and I have no restrictions on content. It's as if I'm sitting on my couch at home.


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## Fofer

Arcady said:


> When I was on TWC I gave up and went the SlingBox route.
> 
> I currently have it working on my laptop with a real TiVo remote (the bluetooth version) and I can connect the laptop to a TV with HDMI (in a hotel room) and it works great, as long as the hotel WiFi/ethernet is good enough. (Or I can tether my laptop to my phone and use LTE.) Slingbox handles slow connection speeds better than the TiVo app, but there is some lag in remote presses that you'll get used to and compensate for. But I'm overall very happy with the solution, and I have no restrictions on content. It's as if I'm sitting on my couch at home.


That's good to read, thanks. That it works to a laptop (whereas TiVo's streaming app does not) is a big plus. I'd much rather use my MacBook Air over a tablet for something like this, anyway. Using a real BT TiVo remote is a great idea, too! I'll have to look into that. I also see there's SlingPlayer for Roku now.

Which Slingbox do you have? I'm looking at the M1 as it supports the new desktop software. I didn't like the web app interface they'd been using for awhile now, so this is a welcome change.

http://www.slingbox.com/Support/KB/KB-2000121.aspx


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## Arcady

I'm using a Slingbox M1. I also own an older Slingbox Pro (non-HD). I have the M1 connected to a dedicated TiVo Mini using component breakout cables. This way I don't disturb any viewing that may be going on in the house while I'm gone.

I use the M1 with a MacBook Air, but I set up the bluetooth remote in Windows 7, because during the week when I'm traveling the MacBook is usually booted to Windows. I haven't tried to set it up in Mac OS X yet, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. The Slingplayer desktop application itself seems to work equally well in Windows or OS X. Sometimes I use the Sling iPhone app when I'm in an airport or somewhere else that using the laptop is not viable.


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## ellinj

Fofer said:


> That's good to read, thanks. That it works to a laptop (whereas TiVo's streaming app does not) is a big plus. I'd much rather use my MacBook Air over a tablet for something like this, anyway. Using a real BT TiVo remote is a great idea, too! I'll have to look into that. I also see there's SlingPlayer for Roku now.
> 
> Which Slingbox do you have? I'm looking at the M1 as it supports the new desktop software. I didn't like the web app interface they'd been using for awhile now, so this is a welcome change.
> 
> http://www.slingbox.com/Support/KB/KB-2000121.aspx


Definitely the M1. I recently upgraded from a sling solo, huge huge improvement in picture quality.


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## JWhites

Not sure if this was already discussed but I spotted something about "Sideload Premium Content " in the hidden settings in software version 20.4.5a.stream-01-6.


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## Dan203

Also mentions H.264 sources, which I know several people have been waiting for for a while. :up:


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## JWhites

New iOS app update released today. Info here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=525154


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## Fofer

While it's nice to see, I can't help but think we're still "so close and yet so far." We can only MOVE the premium recording when we're at home, and can't stream it when we're not? 

I'm trying to think of a single instance when this would be preferable over just... obtaining the same recording from (ahem) elsewhere... and I'm coming up short.


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## JWhites

meh you have to remember that they're still being held accountable by copyright holders and the service providers. Fact is the copyright holders simply do not want people pirating their movies and shows, and considering I think Comcast is doing the exact same thing with their X1 service where the show gets downloaded to a portable device and "locked" from being played on the DVR it came from, I'm not seeing this as a huge problem. The only difference being with Comcast you can "check in" the recording back to the DVR and it's made available again where as with TiVo the recording is "deleted" though I don't know if it just goes to the "deleted folder" or if it's completely gone.


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## Fofer

But Comcast doesn't set the CCI flag for _ALL NON-LOCAL CONTENT_ like Time Warner Cable does.


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## series5orpremier

JWhites said:


> Not sure if this was already discussed but I spotted something about "Sideload Premium Content " in the hidden settings in software version 20.4.5a.stream-01-6.


I have 20.4.5a.stream-01-6 software but my system info screen doesn't look like that. I only have the four upper buttons and not the two lower ones (advanced and logic) that you show. This must have something to do with why I'm not able to side load premium content even with 20.4.6. My Stream is external, not internal.


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