# The Expanse - Season 2 - Full Season Thread *spoilers*



## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

No one chimed in during last week's premiere- and since it's only ten episodes, figured a single thread would work. First the cast/showrunner breakdowns from last week:
E1 "Safe"
E2 "Doors and Corners"

and this week's E3: "Static"


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

We started watching it but were too lost. I have, since, watched a 2-minute S1 recap on youtube. Waiting for my wife to watch it as well before we attempt the S2 premiere again.

We are trying to like it, we really are. But it's so hard to get into. GoT in space was such a terrible comparison. GoT was way easier to get into.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I don't know, I remember being really lost in the first season of GoT. 

I've read the books, so I'm following better. Also ep 3 seemed easier to follow. Don't give up--the books are awesome. The show will be worth the effort. 

I love how Amos is able to see things that the "smarter" ones can't.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Worth noting, the Syfy Sync app that syncs Philips Hue lights to the shows isn't supported in S02 of The Expanse, it was a nice addition to the first season and I miss it.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

I've read the books, so I've got a pretty good idea of what's going on. I'm not sure how much I'd be following if I hadn't. Just keeping track of who's who, and the various groups.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

It is an incredibly vast story. And I think more challenging than Game of Thrones, because the setting is much less familiar to most people.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

I love the world building in the show, and that I don't have to "turn the brain off" to swallow the universe The Expanse set up. It's not just the science they're laboring so hard to be true to. But the Old World, New World, Third World (Earth, Mars, Belt) triangle is more nuanced and compelling to watch than the feuding houses in GoT.


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## Fixer (Mar 29, 2005)

wprager said:


> GoT in space was such a terrible comparison.


OT: I ranted about this to my wife last week. Why in the hell do so many shows throw "Game of Thrones" into their taglines?

The Expanse: "Game of Thrones in Space"
The Magicians: "Narnia meets Game of Thrones"
Emerald City: "Game of Thrones meets Oz"

There's probably a few more I've missed, but you get the gist.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

I died a little when Slate called it Battlestar Galactica meets Game of Thrones.


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## oscarfish (Mar 2, 2009)

One single season 2 thread works for me because I won't have the discipline to save up the unwatched recordings so I can binge at the end of the season.

I have found the episode recaps on the SyFy web site really helpful. The Expanse Episodes There is more interesting stuff on their site. Some people might also like the interactive guide. The Expanse



Spoiler: Not really a spoiler about Amos, but just in case



I have read all but the last novel (and two of the novellas). In S1, I found the Amos characters to be the most different between the TV show and the books. In the TV show it felt like he was being used to generate internal conflict within the group, but when reading the books, it didn't feel that way, more like "good, Amos is on it". So far in S2, Amos feels to me more like the book version.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

I'm all caught up I might later create some separate ep threads. I'm going be out of town for a few weeks starting soon.

In the book, are the Martian Marines featured as eager for war and battle w/Earth?

I was confused by the remarks about if the PDCs had penetrated the inner hull of the Roci. It sure seems like they got thru if they entered the crew compartment, as depicted.

I was surprised to learn those drop ships are so vulnerable given that it seemed like the Donnager didn't destroy any of them in their battle.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cwerdna said:


> I was confused by the remarks about if the PDCs had penetrated the inner hull of the Roci. It sure seems like they got thru if they entered the crew compartment, as depicted.


It wasn't if they got through, it was if they hit stuff they missed (like people or the reactor).


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

cwerdna said:


> In the book, are the Martian Marines featured as eager for war and battle w/Earth?





Spoiler: book spoiler



No. The escalation of the cold war is more subtle in the books. And when we're introduced to Bobby and her platoon, there is no "praying for war" among them, only increased vigilance.





cwerdna said:


> I was surprised to learn those drop ships are so vulnerable given that it seemed like the Donnager didn't destroy any of them in their battle.


The Belter drop ships used at Thoth were merely improvised cargo containers (with 300 year old FedEx logos) The boarding ships used on the Donnager were built by Earth and Protogen. and the boarding parties were well-armed and well-equipped.


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## jon777 (May 30, 2002)

I'm currently reading the first book (Leviathan Wakes). Does S1 of the show correspond to Book 1, and would does S1 have spoilers from future books? Am more interested in the books and not being spoiled, so if S1 has future book spoilers, probably won't watch it until I've eventually made my way thru the books.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

It would be safer to read books 1 and 2 first if you don't want them spoiled. Avasarala isn't even in book one, but she was in season 1. If you love them as much as I did, it won't take long.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I've mentioned in various threads, S1 covers about 70% or so of book 1 (that's just a WAG). There are also some characters in S1 that aren't in book 1 (and some characters in S2 that aren't in book 1 either, even though we still haven't technically hit the end of the first book in S2). Also there's at least one HUGE change in the TV show from the book. I'm interested to see if they try to realign that difference this season, or not.


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## jon777 (May 30, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> It would be safer to read books 1 and 2 first if you don't want them spoiled. Avasarala isn't even in book one, but she was in season 1. If you love them as much as I did, it won't take long.





madscientist said:


> I've mentioned in various threads, S1 covers about 70% or so of book 1 (that's just a WAG). There are also some characters in S1 that aren't in book 1 (and some characters in S2 that aren't in book 1 either, even though we still haven't technically hit the end of the first book in S2). Also there's at least one HUGE change in the TV show from the book. I'm interested to see if they try to realign that difference this season, or not.


Thanks -- I'll probably at least go through books 1 & 2 before starting the show then to at least minimize spoilers.


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

The books are great! I just started the audiobook of the last one.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

oscarfish said:


> Some people might also like the interactive guide. The Expanse


Thanks, that interactive guide is kinda neat. Didn't grasp the spin gravity on asteroids concept until i saw it in the guide.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I have not read the books. I remember going from enjoying it but finding it uneven in quality early on in S1 to thinking it really came together and now was quite good by the end of S1. So far, S2 has been outstanding. I've had zero trouble following anything (which I had occasionally in S1). Everything feels tight and connected and the pressure is building. It feels like several orders of magnitude better than S1 to me so far. 

The weak point for me remains Shohreh Aghdashloo. I just do not like her in this. She's been ok in other things, but her voice is just way too monotone. I could downplay it early in S1 as her being an effete character, but now she's a central piece and has real feelings and what not and her dialogue is still incredibly flat.

Still, a minor complaint for a show I would consider perhaps my favorite on TV (though, after 1 episode, Legion, which is on at the same time, is a contender as well).


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

Episode 4: "Godspeed"







TAsunder said:


> The weak point for me remains Shohreh Aghdashloo. I just do not like her in this. She's been ok in other things, but her voice is just way too monotone. I could downplay it early in S1 as her being an effete character, but now she's a central piece and has real feelings and what not and her dialogue is still incredibly flat.


Aghdashloo isn't what I imagined Avasarala would be after reading the books, but I still like the casting. (older, crustier and fouler-mouthed is what I wanted) I think once shes gets out of "the well" she'll be far more fun to watch.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I hope you are right. The monotone really bugged me in Eps 1-3 (have not seen Ep 4 yet).


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

I have not read the books but I'm enjoying the series quite a bit.
I think it's one of the best efforts from SyFy in a long time.

In particular, I liked the space combat scenes in episode 2.

My one complaint about the series (and it's minor) is that I haven't quite bought into Miller's obsession with Julia Mao.
But I'm guessing that element will soon be left behind.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

JYoung said:


> In particular, I liked the space combat scenes in episode 2.


I read the books, knew the Thoth battle was coming, and I was still floored by that scene. Probably the most original depiction of space combat since Babylon 5.

The writing doesn't do the Miller arc justice. I love Thomas Jane, and I know he "gets" the Josephus Miller character- but the writing doesn't back up *why* finding Julie Mao wakes him up from the loser Belter cop he was.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

He was obsessed way before he found her though.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Saturn_V said:


> I read the books, knew the Thoth battle was coming, and I was still floored by that scene. Probably the most original depiction of space combat since Babylon 5.


My thought at the time was that it was the best space combat sequence I've seen on TV since BSG.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

Episode 5: "Home"




I didn't think they'd go through with Miller arc straight from the book. (mostly because losing Thomas Jane from the cast is a big risk) Can't remember the last time any sci-fi TV show brought me to tears. (excluding Seymour the dog in Futurama) This is a great mid-season finish.



Spoiler: Safe if you've read books 1-5. 



Now that we're done with the _Leviathan Wakes_ story, I'm wondering if we're going to see the missing child story from _Caliban's War._ The geek-casting agent in me is hoping for Stephen Yuen.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Mid-season finish? It keeps going next week...


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## UTV2TiVo (Feb 2, 2005)

Saturn_V said:


> Episode 5: "Home"
> 
> I didn't think they'd go through with Miller arc straight from the book. (mostly because losing Thomas Jane from the cast is a big risk) Can't remember the last time any sci-fi TV show brought me to tears. (excluding Seymour the dog in Futurama) This is a great mid-season finish.
> 
> ...


I'm in the middle of reading book 3 so I didn't read your spoiler but in general I'm happy with the differences with the way they write the show. There are a lot of differences but unlike most book adaptations they aren't losing much of the "spirit" of the books.
As others have said the only book character I am missing so far is the saltiness (is that a word?) of Avasarala in the book. Obviously she can't use the same level of vulgar language in a TV show, so I get it.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Awesome episode! I love this show. Such a good job of turning books into Tv. :up:


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

They seem to be burning the story at a pretty good pace, based on spoilers I have read about the books. I really hope they keep this series going, it's been fantastic to watch and experience.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

vertigo235 said:


> They seem to be burning the story at a pretty good pace, based on spoilers I have read about the books. I really hope they keep this series going, it's been fantastic to watch and experience.


If by "pretty good pace" you mean a fast pace, I don't think so: we're mid-season 2 and they just finished the first book, with a few minor pull-ins from future books but not much. If instead you mean a well-managed pace, I definitely agree!

And I certainly agree with your sentiment about keeping it going; the best sci-fi on TV within the last 5 years at least.


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

vertigo235 said:


> They seem to be burning the story at a pretty good pace,


I see what you did there.


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## OhFiddle (Dec 11, 2006)

I haven't read the books, but I'm really enjoying the show. I am a little confused about some of the plot from the last two episodes though - S2 E4-5.

I get the plan to ram Eros into the sun using the Mormon ship. Once they decided on that plan and it was already underway, what was the point of sending the people out to put the bombs on the docks of Eros? I get it from a story perspective because the "ram into the sun" plan failed, and it setup the whole Miller is left behind to save the day story. But, what was *their* reasoning for doing both plans? I must have missed that explanation in one of the episodes.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

The point of the bombs was to seal off Eros so nobody could get in or out. Bear in mind that according to the original plan, it would have taken months for Eros to make it to the Sun. They didn't want anything escaping in the meantime, and they didn't want anybody boarding it on the way in and spreading the infection.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

OhFiddle said:


> But, what was *their* reasoning for doing both plans? I must have missed that explanation in one of the episodes.


The bombs would've irradiated the surface with "Enough fissionable material to keep the surface of Eros unapproachable for years"


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## OhFiddle (Dec 11, 2006)

Ah, I didn't think of the fact that Eros would have been moving slowly enough towards the sun to allow others to possibly board it before it got there. So were the bombs on the docks only set to go off if the docks were actually breached? I just was thinking about their discussion about how the missiles from Earth would break Eros into little pieces and spread contaminated particles. I was thinking that the bombs on the docks might do the same thing. But if the dock bombs wouldn't have actually blown up Eros, and just made it unapproachable that makes more sense.

Thanks, I think I need to watch this show earlier in the night when I am not tired. Sorry if the spoiler tags are unnecessary. I don't post much and didn't want to get in trouble posting this on a whole season thread.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

OhFiddle said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Whole season threads with SPOILERS in the subject line are allowed to have any topic in episodes aired to date spoken about freely and openly.


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## OhFiddle (Dec 11, 2006)

Thanks dianebrat, I removed my spoiler tags to make it easier to read. I mostly just read the show related topics instead of posting so I wasn't very familiar with the proper etiquette.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Mid-season finish? It keeps going next week...


Still, it felt like series finale.
(Yes, I know that there are more episodes.)

I quite liked how this played out and was impressed with the way they made the hotel room look all proto-moleculey.

I just have one question, did Miller keep hitting the reset button all the way to Venus?


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

He could have taped his finger to it. Letting go set the counter going.

--Carlos V.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

JYoung said:


> Still, it felt like series finale.
> (Yes, I know that there are more episodes.)


About that.. 


Spoiler



there are some very insightful interviews with the showrunners out there saying why they had this event happen when it did.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

JYoung said:


> I just have one question, did Miller keep hitting the reset button all the way to Venus?


Miller had Julie hold down the deadman switch while he was taking his helmet off. The instant Julie touched it, the panel fried and shut down. No one's touching the bomb at all when the scene ends.


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## oscarfish (Mar 2, 2009)

JYoung said:


> hitting the reset button all the way to Venus?


That sounds like a euphemism for something. It would make a good song title.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I'm really, really interested to see where they go with this week's episode, considering where they left off the last episode WRT the book's plotline (comment on our current position WRT the books but no spoilers):


Spoiler



Because this episode was essentially the end of book 1


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Saturn_V said:


> Miller had Julie hold down the deadman switch while he was taking his helmet off. The instant Julie touched it, the panel fried and shut down. No one's touching the bomb at all when the scene ends.


If that's actually the case, they didn't show it very well.
And don't forget one could take one's hand off the panel for a bit, just as long as they made sure to hit the reset button in time.



oscarfish said:


> That sounds like a euphemism for something. It would make a good song title.


_Venus and Mars are alright tonight_.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

JYoung said:


> If that's actually the case, they didn't show it very well.


Here it is again.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Saturn_V said:


> Here it is again.


I did not state that clearly enough.
I caught that Julia's hand(?) was on the panel reset button so Miller could take off his spacesuit on my initial viewing.
What they did not show clearly was that the panel shorted out or deactivated, if that's what happened.
(I did watch again and it's still not clear, IMO.)

For all I know, Naomi did manage to deactivate it remotely or Miller kept hitting the reset button all the way to Venus.
(Shrug)


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Saturn_V said:


> Here it is again.


I'm going to have to agree that if that was the intent, it was unclear. The blue glow on the panel when her hand was there could just as easily have been a reflection of her hand's luminescence. And the panel 'shutting down' was exactly the same thing that happened every time he touched it throughout the episode, right down to the delay, and the sound effect. I have no problem believing her touch zorched it, but it certainly wasn't obvious.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

kdmorse said:


> I'm going to have to agree that if that was the intent, it was unclear. The blue glow on the panel when her hand was there could just as easily have been a reflection of her hand's luminescence. And the panel 'shutting down' was exactly the same thing that happened every time he touched it throughout the episode, right down to the delay, and the sound effect. I have no problem believing her touch zorched it, but it certainly wasn't obvious.


It was obvious to me. The screen went completely dark, complete with a sizzling sound.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It was obvious to me. The screen went completely dark, complete with a sizzling sound.


It looked to me like the screen didn't go dark until Julia's hand was removed from the panel.

Yes, there was a sound when Miller put her hand on it but it didn't sound particularly electrical short to me. It sounded more proto-moleculely.

Like @kdmorse I have no problem believing that's what happened but my (niggling) complaint was that they didn't indicate or show it well.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JYoung said:


> It looked to me like the screen didn't go dark until Julia's hand was removed from the panel.


I'm pretty sure it never went dark when Miller used it.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I'm pretty sure it never went dark when Miller used it.


The screen actually did, every time. The easiest to find example is the first scene after the title shot (at about the 4 minute mark on my recording), and when Miller pulls the bomb up the shaft while climbing (about at the 16 minute mark), but it held true for all the other disarms that occurred onscreen in this episode. The disarm sound was essentially the same as well. I'll argue those two to my grave (I have to argue something, I have no strong opinion on Penny's hairstyle or felonious life).

The mood lighting on the bomb in the last scene however is probably what tells the tale though (Why does a nuclear bomb have mood lighting?). The blue glow around the upper section, and the red glowing radiation symbol on the bottom, both turned off, and stayed off in the last scene as they zoomed out so you could see the entire thing.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

kdmorse said:


> The screen actually did, every time. The easiest to find example is the first scene after the title shot (at about the 4 minute mark on my recording), and when Miller pulls the bomb up the shaft while climbing (about at the 16 minute mark), but it held true for all the other disarms that occurred onscreen in this episode. The disarm sound was essentially the same as well. I'll argue those two to my grave (I have to argue something, I have no strong opinion on Penny's hairstyle or felonious life).


Well, sorry, but I have to disagree. Comparing the first one you mention with the final one, the difference isn't as stark as it felt while just watching the show, but it's pretty clear. The first time, when he touches it there's a soft beeping turn-off sound, and the screen flashes from the warning screen to a safe screen before it fades to black. The final time, there's no turn-off sound and no safe screen, it just makes a fritzing sound and then shuts off completely. But although it was obvious to me at the time, the fact that it wasn't obvious to you means that they could have made it even more clear than they already did. 

On a somewhat related note, although my experience is tainted by having read the books, I'm still somewhat surprised that everybody assumes


Spoiler



that Miller is well and truly dead. After all, everybody assumed Julie was dead...but the proto-molecule kept her alive. And now Miller has deliberately exposed himself to the proto-molecule as well.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, sorry, but I have to disagree. Comparing the first one you mention with the final one, the difference isn't as stark as it felt while just watching the show, but it's pretty clear. The first time, when he touches it there's a soft beeping turn-off sound, and the screen flashes from the warning screen to a safe screen before it fades to black. The final time, there's no turn-off sound and no safe screen, it just makes a fritzing sound and then shuts off completely. But although it was obvious to me at the time, the fact that it wasn't obvious to you means that they could have made it even more clear than they already did.
> 
> On a somewhat related note, although my experience is tainted by having read the books, I'm still somewhat surprised that everybody assumes
> 
> ...


Perhaps because you read the books, you expected the bomb being disarmed while those of us who haven't didn't think it was made clear enough?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JYoung said:


> Perhaps because you read the books, you expected the bomb being disarmed while those of us who haven't didn't think it was made clear enough?


That's not the way it happened in the book.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Well, I guess that theory is shot.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

For those who care, the way it unfolded in the book was a bit different. Miller didn't get stuck on Eros by accident, and there was no mission to plant bombs; he went there alone specifically to find Julie. He brought the nuke with him, and Amos rigged a deadman's switch for it. There was no panel that needed an input every X minutes. When he found Julie, he gave her the deadman's switch, and that was the last we heard of the nuke.

The while nuke thing was a bit odd...it never really served any narrative purpose, and in fact most of the time he was on Eros it would have been easy to forget he was dragging the thing with him.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Saturn_V said:


> I didn't think they'd go through with Miller arc straight from the book. (mostly because losing Thomas Jane from the cast is a big risk)


huh...I'm certainly assuming that Miller and Julie are not dead (only Mostly Dead - there's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead). So I don't think Thomas Jane is done.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

It all depends on what your definition of "dead" is.


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## bobino (Jul 24, 2002)

Don't the writers of this novel series have a special friendship with George RR Martin? 
If so, no one is ever really dead.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

bobino said:


> Don't the writers of this novel series have a special friendship with George RR Martin?
> If so, no one is ever really dead.


Hm... not sure which of G.R.R.M.'s books you've been reading, but he's constantly killing his characters and they virtually always stay dead. The few exceptions just prove the rule .


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

bobino said:


> Don't the writers of this novel series have a special friendship with George RR Martin?


Ty Franck worked as Martin's personal assistant for several years, and created the failed MMO/RPG that was the basis of The Expanse, which GRRM and Daniel Abraham played. Apart from the press blurbs, I don't think GRRM has any real contribution/impact to the books or the show.

It's never been "Game of Thrones in space" to me. It's odd (to me) that people keep drawing comparisons/connections between the two franchises.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

Episode 6: "Paradigm Shift"




Can't help but feel a little short-changed by the Ganymede battle. But I liked how they incorporated the Solomon Epstein story from "Drive". And I really liked seeing Avasarala threaten Errinwright.

BTW, you can read the full text from "Drive" novella on SyFy's site.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Saturn_V said:


> It's never been "Game of Thrones in space" to me. It's odd (to me) that people keep drawing comparisons/connections between the two franchises.


That's because they have to compare it to something, and The Expanse is so unique that's the best they can do.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Saturn_V said:


> Episode 6: "Paradigm Shift"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wondered where that came from. I've read all the books and didn't remember it being referred to in that much detail anyway. 

I know some don't like the Avasarala actress, but I love her. But then I saw her in season 1 before I read any books.

For a long time all the scifi shows were compared to Lost. Now it's GoT.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Can someone please tell me who is the actor who plays that UN woman's assistant / bodyguard? he looks very familiar but I can't place him. IMDB didn't have him, either.


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

He played Ashur on the Spartacus TV Series, Nick Tarabay.

--Carlos V.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

Yesterday's episode (8 Mar): Did anyone else have the sound suddenly go almost 1 second out of sync after the last big chunk of commercials? Hopefully the various reruns they always broadcast won't have that problem. Perhaps this was a local cable problem (I'm on comcast Boca/Delray Florida). The sound was perfectly in sync once again for the preview for next week, so I don't think it was any kind of TiVo problem.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

tomhorsley said:


> Yesterday's episode (8 Mar): Did anyone else have the sound suddenly go almost 1 second out of sync after the last big chunk of commercials?


Yup. And there are multiple other threads on the internet complaining about it as well, so we're not alone.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Not only that, but the subtitles for this and The Magicians were seriously out-of-sync for most of both shows.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Not only that, but the subtitles for this and The Magicians were seriously out-of-sync for most of both shows.


So it wasn't just me. The subtitles for both shows were 3-4(?) seconds behind the audio. So freakin' annoying. Sometimes the subtitles would be delayed even more if there wasn't more audio to "flush the buffer."


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

I'm pretty sure the subtitles being delayed was just because the show is happening 3-4 light seconds away from us. Everyone knows sound travels faster.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jakerock said:


> I'm pretty sure the subtitles being delayed was just because the show is happening 3-4 light seconds away from us. Everyone knows sound travels faster.


But they were also delayed in the Earth scenes...


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

Episode 7: "The Seventh Man"




Even without action set pieces, this was still a great episode. It's fun to watch Jared Harris (I didn't realize he was the late Richard Harris' son!) moving seamlessly from Benefactor to Agent Provocateur to Gangster- keeping everyone on edge.

And I'm starting to admire how nuanced the women characters are written on this show. I'm actually starting to prefer Dom Tipper's Naomi compared to the book version. And Bobbie's trauma/recovery is deftly handled without resorting to maudlin. Even Drummer is interesting to watch- watching everything, waiting for her moment.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I don't get SyFy anymore after The Great Cable Channel Purge in our house, so I'm buying it from Amazon... no sound or CC issues there


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I watched it a day later using the SyFy app and the sound was off. I actually thought it was a glitch on my end.

Every episode this season has been great. This is my favorite show currently airing on TV (and #2 might be a competitor in the same time slot: Legion).

Looked like she had open wounds on Ganymede. What would happen to the human body in that scenario -- Ganymede at night is something like -300F.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

madscientist said:


> I don't get SyFy anymore after The Great Cable Channel Purge in our house, so I'm buying it from Amazon... no sound or CC issues there


Also buying via Amazon. Battlestar Galactica was the last time I had cable in my house. (pretty much the last time SyFy offered anything I wanted to watch too)



TAsunder said:


> Looked like she had open wounds on Ganymede. What would happen to the human body in that scenario -- Ganymede at night is something like -300F.


I don't think those wounds were caused by penetrating trauma. Her armored suit was beat to hell, but the inner still maintained pressure.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

We still have a very basic cable tier but it doesn't have SyFy. We could switch to a different lineup that did have SyFy for about the same money but we'd lose BBC America. Any tier that has both is WAY more expensive. We decided to keep BBCA and get SyFy shows via streaming. It's worked out for the most part but I have to say that SyFy is turning out more good shows these days...


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

madscientist said:


> We still have a very basic cable tier but it doesn't have SyFy. We could switch to a different lineup that did have SyFy for about the same money but we'd lose BBC America. Any tier that has both is WAY more expensive. We decided to keep BBCA and get SyFy shows via streaming. It's worked out for the most part but I have to say that SyFy is turning out more good shows these days...


Amazon is a much more enjoyable way to watch "Expanse" and "Magicians" than SyFy. No comercials, no bugs on the screen and the lower third belongs to you, not SyFy. I also see a higher quality picture than on Spectrum; someone with Comcast would certainly see a much better picture.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

ej42137 said:


> Amazon is a much more enjoyable way to watch "Expanse" and "Magicians" than SyFy. No comercials, no bugs on the screen and the lower third belongs to you, not SyFy. I also see a higher quality picture than on Spectrum; someone with Comcast would certainly see a much better picture.


How long does it take for it to show up on Amazon?


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> How long does it take for it to show up on Amazon?


About 12 hours if you're willing to pay for it, when the next season starts if you want to wait for it to show up on Prime.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Ah. Therein lies the rub!


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

ej42137 said:


> About 12 hours if you're willing to pay for it


Generally, I get the availability notices less than six hours after broadcast air. But The Expanse is especially prompt. Both this season and last, they're available after 2AM CST the next day.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Yes, that is absolutely the downside. I only watch TV for a few hours in the evening so I don't get to see the episode until my Thursday evening viewing, which is a bummer. But, there's enough good TV out there these days that I'm not at a loss for something else to watch on Wednesday.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

ej42137 said:


> About 12 hours if you're willing to pay for it, when the next season starts if you want to wait for it to show up on Prime.


I got excited that maybe SyFy was a channel you could get on Amazon but now I suspect you mean pay for each episode / the whole season...?


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> I got excited that maybe SyFy was a channel you could get on Amazon but now I suspect you mean pay for each episode / the whole season...?


Yep. It's three bucks an episode, or $30 for the entire season.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

On-Demand pricing for current shows is fluid. If you buy individually, it's always $3/episode. If you buy the entire season there's usually a price break; ~ $2.50 ep. But If you buy before the season actually starts- there's a bigger price break. I paid $25 for S2 in January, which breaks down to < $2/ep. (thirteen episodes this season)


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

Episode 8: "Pyre"





The science geek in me was impressed when they showed Amos on the hull of Tycho Station, with the station's spin trying to throw him off. Even the stars in the background were moving in the right orientation.

But I'm a little irked by the depiction of Belters as over-the-top violent. Which has been in the show last season too, but the spacing of the inners on the refugee ship left a weird taste in me.



Spoiler: only if you've read books 1-5



Love how this show drops plot hints at future episodes from the later books.
-mention of an Inaaros clan during the OPA Conclave meeting
-Prax asking Naomi if she had children.
-Amos searching for details on Lydia.
All three reference book 5, Nemesis Games, which is set 3-4 years after Eros.


And speaking of future episodes:
'The Expanse' Renewed For Season 3 By Syfy

Encouraging, since_ The Expanse_ is not a ratings winner, even though it is the highest rated show on the network. But viewership has been down this season from last.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I loved loved loved how the head of security lady shot the 2 guys in the head. Replayed that a few times. Perfect. I love her now!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> I loved loved loved how the head of security lady shot the 2 guys in the head. Replayed that a few times. Perfect. I love her now!


She (Cara Gee) was the star of a show called Strange Empire, about a town in the Canadian Old West where the women basically have to take over. She was the gunslinger. It was kind of a, well, strange show, but worth checking out if you can track it down.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> She (Cara Gee) was the star of a show called Strange Empire, about a town in the Canadian Old West where the women basically have to take over. She was the gunslinger. It was kind of a, well, strange show, but worth checking out if you can track it down.


On Netflix streaming.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Saturn_V said:


> The science geek in me was impressed when they showed Amos on the hull of Tycho Station, with the station's spin trying to throw him off. Even the stars in the background were moving in the right orientation.


I gotta say, I was impressed by that scene as well.

Though I'm disappointed that we didn't see more Flashpoint alumni in this week's episode.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

Saturn_V said:


> the spacing of the inners on the refugee ship left a weird taste in me.


That scene was well done for the shock effect. I didn't see that coming at all. Was neat to see the two of them smiling when they went 0 G, then woah. 

Was Doris that guy's wife or just a coworker? Did the above event happen in the books?

Side note: It's interesting how little response I've gotten in my individual ep threads. Is everyone just all caught up or just refraining reading this thread until they're all caught up? I'm in the latter camp.


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

cwerdna said:


> That scene was well done for the shock effect. I didn't see that coming at all. Was neat to see the two of them smiling when they went 0 G, then woah.
> 
> Was Doris that guy's wife or just a coworker? Did the above event happen in the books?
> 
> Side note: It's interesting how little response I've gotten in my individual ep threads. Is everyone just all caught up or just refraining reading this thread until they're all caught up? I'm in the latter camp.


I don't remember that particular scene from the book (I have horrible memory) but based on what she said and did during the episode they were just coworkers/friends.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

That didn't happen in the books. IIRC, in the books Praxidike stays on Gynamede. But, it's been some years since I read them I could be forgetting.

I'm wondering what's up with the Nauvoo? Is it just speeding off out of the universe, lost forever? Seems like they'd want to try to get it back, since it should be fine (didn't hit anything) and it's super-expensive!!


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

cwerdna said:


> It's interesting how little response I've gotten in my individual ep threads. Is everyone just all caught up or just refraining reading this thread until they're all caught up? I'm in the latter camp.


Not enough people are watching the show; that's reflected in both actual ratings and discussion here. I didn't start the thread until a week after the premiere, and was surprised no one chimed in before. We got to rise up, Beratnas!  And it's possible most are just waiting for Amazon Prime to post S2 and at the end of the year and just binge it. I find I'm enjoying the show more week-to-week instead of all at once.

Me, I can't get enough of this dang show. SyFy Wire runs a podcast for The Expanse called The Churn that's pretty good, as does Ars Technica's Decrypted. And you can always brush up on your Belter Patois on Wikia.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

madscientist said:


> That didn't happen in the books. IIRC, in the books Praxidike stays on Ganymede. But, it's been some years since I read them I could be forgetting


Not quite...in the books, he also goes on the Roci. But he doesn't hook up with them until they get to Ganymede. The business with the refugee ship is new to the show.

It's just another way of streamlining a vast story so it will fit on TV. Otherwise, they would have had to spend time on parallel stories for Prax and the Roci until they finally met.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

That's what I meant. Instead of being taken to Tycho and then going back to Gynamede on the Roci, he stays on Gynamede and meets up with Holden etc. when they bring the Roci to him.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Question: what exactly is the language that we hear some Belters speak (and that Miller's partner Dimitri was trying to learn)?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JYoung said:


> Question: what exactly is the language that we hear some Belters speak (and that Miller's partner Dimitri was trying to learn)?


It's not a language per se, more of a pidgin or creole...jumbled together from various Earth languages.


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

There are websites that do the translation. One of the authors knows a lot of languages apparently and came up with what he thought they might use.

Nick Farmer knows dozens of languages, so he invented one for The Expanse


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

cwerdna said:


> That scene was well done for the shock effect. I didn't see that coming at all. Was neat to see the two of them smiling when they went 0 G, then woah.
> 
> Was Doris that guy's wife or just a coworker? Did the above event happen in the books?
> 
> Side note: It's interesting how little response I've gotten in my individual ep threads. Is everyone just all caught up or just refraining reading this thread until they're all caught up? I'm in the latter camp.


For most of these 1 hour shows, I've decided not to watch them each week and try to accumulate 5-6 before I binge watch them. I can't do that with something like Game of Thrones but with Expanse, Black Sails, Grimm...etc., I find it a lot more enjoyable to watch a few episodes together than just the 1 each week.

So you won't see me posting in a lot of episode threads...


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

Anubys said:


> For most of these 1 hour shows, I've decided not to watch them each week and try to accumulate 5-6 before I binge watch them. I can't do that with something like Game of Thrones but with Expanse, Black Sails, Grimm...etc., I find it a lot more enjoyable to watch a few episodes together than just the 1 each week.
> 
> So you won't see me posting in a lot of episode threads...


I see. So, you plan to always catch up to the latest ep?

For me, there's almost no way I'd ever have enough time to binge watch 5 or 6 eps. I often don't have enough time to watch 1 ep w/o stopping somewhere in the middle. Two is really pushing it for me.

If it hits 5 or 6, that's a LOT of disk space chewed on my TiVo for eps in HD. I try to watch and delete those as quickly as possible.

If I'm not out of town and end up accumulating that many eps of a series w/continual story arc w/o watching any, that's often a sign for me that I'm actually not that interested in the show/don't like it that much and it's time to cancel the SP and delete all the eps.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I agree. I recently talked a friend into watching Lost (don't ask me how she had never seen any of Lost). She sat and watched 8-10 episodes in one evening and loved it. I think of all the fun we had here discussing each episode and every little detail and I would hate to have missed that by binge watching it. Even if I watch a show entirely on DVD, I usually only watch 2 episodes per day.

As I look at this post, I always type them the same--all the way across the page. Why do they sometimes print in a narrow column like this?


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It's not a language per se, more of a pidgin or creole...jumbled together from various Earth languages.


I suspected that "language drift/evolution" was involved because some of it sounds sort of familiar.
(But subtitles were of no help because they'd usually say "speaking in Foreign Language")



jakerock said:


> There are websites that do the translation. One of the authors knows a lot of languages apparently and came up with what he thought they might use.
> 
> Nick Farmer knows dozens of languages, so he invented one for The Expanse


That's an interesting article. Thanks.

I couldn't help but notice that the most promoted comment on there was by Andrew Rotilio, who played Diogo, talking a bit about his experience in dealing with the Belter language.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I also liked in the books that they mentioned the Belters used more hand signals than usual since they often had full breathing suits on and couldn't talk or see facial expressions. Instead of nodding agreement they raised a fist up and down. I suppose that kind of detail is hard to convey on the show.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

stellie93 said:


> As I look at this post, I always type them the same--all the way across the page. Why do they sometimes print in a narrow column like this?


I suspect you are running an ad blocker. Turn it off, and you will see why your text looks the way it does.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

stellie93 said:


> I also liked in the books that they mentioned the Belters used more hand signals than usual since they often had full breathing suits on and couldn't talk or see facial expressions. Instead of nodding agreement they raised a fist up and down. I suppose that kind of detail is hard to convey on the show.


I think they made an honest attempt to do this last season, when Havelock was having a Belter prostitute teach him Belter language and the hand signs. And we see the non-verbals between characters when they're in space suits.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I continue to be amazed by this season. I think it's the best show on television right now. All of the characters have a certain clarity. The story has the kind of momentum I really appreciate. I'm finally starting to see the Game of Thrones aspects, in that you have plot machinations set in motion that just increase in speed until they clash with other plot points. This show is a little smoother and more graceful with how the events unfold and are handled, but I kind of see it now. In the same way, it kind of reminds me of Breaking Bad. It just builds on itself and becomes more and more compelling.

The belter language and accent has really impressed me lately. The actors are doing a good job all speaking with a similar accent -- it wasn't quite as tight in season 1. It doesn't feel as much like a bunch of actors doing their take on belter, it feels like someone is putting a lot of effort into pronunciations and such. Can't say the same about the other nations(? worlds?) -- not totally sure why every Martian seems to have a different accent, for example.

What I really like is how every group has a different level of information they know. I like how the distance (expanse) between the belt and earth, etc. really influences how information is learned or not learned. A weaker show/novel series wouldn't be able to handle all of the characters knowing different things without it turning into a comedy of errors / bad Frasier episode. This show is really deftly handling it. I get that the novels are a strong source and all they need to do is stick to them, but most shows wouldn't do that. Having the authors on board really makes a difference. I think I agree with this article:

'The Expanse' Isn't Just Awesome TV-It's Transforming TV


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> The belter language and accent has really impressed me lately. The actors are doing a good job all speaking with a similar accent -- it wasn't quite as tight in season 1.


Although that may be a matter of this season taking place on a single large station, where everbody's likely to have similar accents..?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Although that may be a matter of this season taking place on a single large station, where everbody's likely to have similar accents..?


I was thinking about the scenes on Ceres station with Miller in S1. But perhaps there was just a wider demographic of people there, even in the belter-iest scenes.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> I was thinking about the scenes on Ceres station with Miller in S1. But perhaps there was just a wider demographic of people there, even in the belter-iest scenes.


Yeah, I wasn't paying attention to who was speaking and how, so I can't make a strong case one way or the other. I'm just throwing out the notion that the accents might have been well-controlled from the beginning as a possibility.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

I love the belter accent, but it does force me to turn on CC at least a couple times an episode.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

*The Weeping Somnambulist:*

Did I miss something previously?

From the way Martians and Belters had talked about Earth before, it sounded to me like things were pretty good on Earth and nothing we saw from the lives of people like Avasarala and Mao (admittedly the elite) gave me an indication that it wasn't.
(And no, I didn't miss DeGraaf talking about moving from Earth to Mars with his husband nor the scenes with Holden's mother.)

But from what Avasarala said to Draper, most of Earth's population don't have jobs and are on public assistance (and not in the way it's depicted in the latter Star Treks) which sounds pretty dire to me.
Is that correct?

I did like that Holden's plan went t**s up in the beginning and Chrisjen chewing out the chaplin for butting in.
As well as the sequence with Alex "parking" the Roci.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

JYoung said:


> But from what Avasarala said to Draper, most of Earth's population don't have jobs and are on public assistance (and not in the way it's depicted in the latter Star Treks) which sounds pretty dire to me.
> Is that correct?


From what I recall, the words used were universal basic income or something alluding to that. Everyone would at least receive some amount of money from the govt. I'm not sure I'd necessarily view it to be the same as welfare or dire. If it were sufficient to live a decent life w/o needing to work, would that be so bad?

I'm glad we got to see some new stuff like the MCR embassy on Earth, what Martians have to do to prep for/stay on Earth and the fancy large meeting hall.

Out of curiosity, in the books, was Errinwright as shady? Did he also have close ties with Jules-Pierre Mao?

Did the MCRN also want Draper to deliver a certain narrative at the meeting/hearing?

Also, in the books, was there something similar to the thugs wanting to take the Weeping Somnambulist and all its cargo but then our heroes decide to fight, getting the husband killed?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cwerdna said:


> Also, in the books, was there something similar to the thugs wanting to take the Weeping Somnambulist and all its cargo but then our heroes decide to fight, getting the husband killed?


"Decide to fight"? You did get that the thieves who had stolen the ship and the cargo were going to kill them all, right? You don't steal an entire ship and its cargo and let the crew live...

Regardless of what the wife (and Holden) might think, the Roci crew didn't get the husband killed; they saved the wife's life.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

This is the one sci-fy/fantasy tv series where I wish I'd read the books. 

I cracked up when Avasarala cussed out the chaplain. I love that woman.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> I cracked up when Avasarala cussed out the chaplain. I love that woman.


You'd probably love her more in the books. They really had to water her down to get her to PG-13.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

There are few things about Earth that have been alluded to in the show: first, the population of Earth in the Expanse timeline (2200) is around 31 billion or so, which is over 4x as many people as we have today. Also, as a result of global warming sea levels have risen considerably which reduces the amount of land available. There are not many opportunities for most of these people to get decent jobs so much of the population is on "Basic Assistance" from the government which provides a minimal living.

You may recall Amos saying that Ganymede after the mirrors fell "looked like Baltimore". On the show we've only seen, so far, the seat of world-wide government, or the homes of powerful people. They're definitely going to be nice. The reality of life on Earth for most people is far more grim I believe.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

JYoung said:


> But from what Avasarala said to Draper, most of Earth's population don't have jobs and are on public assistance (and not in the way it's depicted in the latter Star Treks) which sounds pretty dire to me.
> Is that correct?


Don't think of "Basic Assistance" as welfare. The UN is simply providing for everyone's basic needs. (which I read as food, clothing and shelter only) It's neither a content or grim society, but a mostly idle one. You can advance, but competition is fierce and higher education isn't accessible unless you work two years in public service. (which does sound grim according to the books) No one wants to be on Basic, you're just fated to it. It is what spurs colonization of Mars and the outer planets as much as invention of the Epstein Drive does. They would rather risk death in space rather than a life on Basic.


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## UTV2TiVo (Feb 2, 2005)

cheesesteak said:


> This is the one sci-fy/fantasy tv series where I wish I'd read the books.
> 
> I cracked up when Avasarala cussed out the chaplain. I love that woman.





Rob Helmerichs said:


> You'd probably love her more in the books. They really had to water her down to get her to PG-13.


Yeah, her character is really a highlight for me in the books. Not necessarily my favorite character but definitely the best dialog.
I am listening (Audible) to the books and the narrator does a really good job of Avasarala.
I'm currently on the latest, book 6, which only came out in December so soon my morning walks and daily commute will have to find something else to listen to for a while.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

But those who live on earth, even with limited resources, can walk out their front door and see the sun, feel the wind--I think Martians and Belters are both jealous of this.

Interesting how hard it was for the Martians to walk in gravity considering that Mars has way more gravity than the Belt, and these were military types in tip top shape.


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## UTV2TiVo (Feb 2, 2005)

stellie93 said:


> But those who live on earth, even with limited resources, can walk out their front door and see the sun, feel the wind--I think Martians and Belters are both jealous of this.
> 
> Interesting how hard it was for the Martians to walk in gravity considering that Mars has way more gravity than the Belt, and these were military types in tip top shape.


The Martians may be somewhat jealous of this as they are in the process of terraforming Mars. However, I don't think the Belters are jealous as they have lived their whole lives in ships or stations so they don't even know what walking around in a planet atmosphere feels like. They just don't like being under Earth's (and Mars, I suppose) thumb(s).

Although Mars gravity is much less than Earth, the Martian military trains in 1G so it wasn't that they had a hard time walking in gravity when they stepped off the ship it was more of a feeling of anxiety of walking out of the shuttle into a wider open space than they had ever experienced. Hence the vomiting soldier.
In the book they had a whole section on the overwhelming anxiety Bobby felt the first time she stepped out of a U.N. building and experienced the open air.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

stellie93 said:


> Interesting how hard it was for the Martians to walk in gravity considering that Mars has way more gravity than the Belt, and these were military types in tip top shape.


But Mars has only 1/3 the gravity of Earth. All the exercise in the world can only do so much when you suddenly find yourself weighing three times normal!

There's a reason you don't see any Belters on Earth...


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

cwerdna said:


> From what I recall, the words used were universal basic income or something alluding to that. Everyone would at least receive some amount of money from the govt. I'm not sure I'd necessarily view it to be the same as welfare or dire. If it were sufficient to live a decent life w/o needing to work, would that be so bad?


Well, that sounds like Star Trek's United Federation of Planets where replicator technology made the essentials quite accessible, money isn't really used, and humans are free to "better themselves".

The Expanse Earth doesn't seem that cheery.



Saturn_V said:


> Don't think of "Basic Assistance" as welfare. The UN is simply providing for everyone's basic needs. (which I read as food, clothing and shelter only) It's neither a content or grim society, but a mostly idle one. You can advance, but competition is fierce and higher education isn't accessible unless you work two years in public service. (which does sound grim according to the books) No one wants to be on Basic, you're just fated to it. It is what spurs colonization of Mars and the outer planets as much as invention of the Epstein Drive does. They would rather risk death in space rather than a life on Basic.


Chrisjen's exact line was (in reference to what Mars calls "the takers") :


> "It's not that they're lazy, you know. It's just that we can't give them enough opportunities."


I think that madscientist articulated very well what I was thinking that Earth is in a very precarious position in terms of future viability.

It may not be exactly a "welfare state" in terms of having the majority of Terrans living in slums and abject poverty but the future doesn't look rosy.

It sounds like Earth needs to push outward to survive, otherwise things will turn grim.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

30 billion people. I'd be on board to kill a few billion. Only half kidding. I served on a ship that could do that.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

JYoung said:


> It sounds like Earth needs to push outward to survive, otherwise things will turn grim.


I guess that's what they did when they developed the belt and Mars. I wonder what motivated someone to move to the belt? They probably were unaware that they couldn't return.

If only they could find a way to travel to new worlds.....


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## UTV2TiVo (Feb 2, 2005)

stellie93 said:


> If only they could find a way to travel to new worlds.....


The Epstien drive allowed them to travel within the Solar system but it is still not enough to travel to other systems. The Navoo ship was built by the Mormons intending to travel to other systems but it was a "generational" ship that would take a very long time to get to a destination worth colonizing.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> I guess that's what they did when they developed the belt and Mars. I wonder what motivated someone to move to the belt? They probably were unaware that they couldn't return.
> 
> If only they could find a way to travel to new worlds.....


Not to go all socio-economic but if you have the majority of Earth's population not working, that's ten of billions of people on public assistance.

My question would be, who's paying for all of this?
And is that why it's cheaper to send a ship like the Canterbury out to Saturn to bring back ice to Ceres?

It seems that sooner or later, the Solar System is going to have a resource crisis.

Or War.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

JYoung said:


> Not to go all socio-economic but if you have the majority of Earth's population not working, that's ten of billions of people on public assistance.
> 
> My question would be, who's paying for all of this?


Belters. They forego showering for months and sell their water back to Earth so that Earth can have clean water.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I don't think water is an issue for Earth (not sure if you're kidding or not). I also don't think food is an issue. I'm sure that they have come up with enough technological advances to support basic needs; probably most people are eating largely algae-based diet, maybe farmed fish, etc. There's no way someplace like Ganymede could put even a small dent in the needs of the billions on Earth, or that it would be cost-effective to ship it back. I'm sure Earth is buying raw materials, not organic materials.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Somebody mentioned Star Trek--it's possible that scientific inventions make it unnecessary for most of the population to work to produce food and other basic needs. I got the impression from the books that Martians and Belters considered the Earthers lazy but fortunate.

Or what madscientist said while I was typing.....


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

I think (and I may be wrong) that water is an issue for the belters. They have to bring in ice from other places to keep providing water (and perhaps oxygen?) from it. But since someone has to pay for it, there is never enough. Or if you are belter, the lack of water is a way that earth/mars keeps them under control by not providing enough.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

So if non earthers are so fragile on Earth, does that mean that they can not blast around the solar system as fast as Earthers can? Since they use thrust to simulate a certain amount of G Forces on the ships, it would mean that for "normal" gravity the Earthers can sustain about 3 times as much acceleration than the Martians, and the belters must have some serious handicaps then when it comes to space travel as well.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

vertigo235 said:


> So if non earthers are so fragile on Earth, does that mean that they can not blast around the solar system as fast as Earthers can? Since they use thrust to simulate a certain amount of G Forces on the ships, it would mean that for "normal" gravity the Earthers can sustain about 3 times as much acceleration than the Martians, and the belters must have some serious handicaps then when it comes to space travel as well.


There's a difference between the stress that's put on you while walking on a planet, and the stress that's put on you while lying in an acceleration couch pumped full of drugs...


----------



## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

The show doesn't seem to do a great job of showing the stresses of space travel vs. the books. Which makes sense because they want to keep the dialogue etc up. But in the books they are strapped to crash couches and anytime they go to high G (even 1) it's a big deal for the belters up to and including the drugs which make the high burns possible.


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

jakerock said:


> I think (and I may be wrong) that water is an issue for the belters. They have to bring in ice from other places to keep providing water (and perhaps oxygen?) from it. But since someone has to pay for it, there is never enough. Or if you are belter, the lack of water is a way that earth/mars keeps them under control by not providing enough.


For Belters ALL resources must be an issue: air, water, food. Nothing is free, everything has to be worked for. I doubt humans have the ability to create a 100% closed ecosystem, so there's always leakage that has to be replenished. Air and water are likely more recyclable, but you have to have room to grow food (maybe on the stations there'd be some room, but not on ships).

For water, Belters use icy asteroids (that's what the Canterbury was doing in Ep 1, remember, was ice hauling--that's why there was talk about water rationing on Ceres station after the Canterbury got blown up) but that must require a lot of refining. I'm quite sure they don't ship water from Earth to the Belt, except maybe as a last resort... WAY too expensive to get something that dense out of the gravity well.


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> There's a difference between the stress that's put on you while walking on a planet, and the stress that's put on you while lying in an acceleration couch pumped full of drugs...


I'm not talking about "initial burn" but the constant acceleration that they have after the initial burn. if you continue to accelerate at 1G vs 1/3G you will get somewhere a LOT faster.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

madscientist said:


> I don't think water is an issue for Earth (not sure if you're kidding or not). I also don't think food is an issue. I'm sure that they have come up with enough technological advances to support basic needs; probably most people are eating largely algae-based diet, maybe farmed fish, etc. There's no way someplace like Ganymede could put even a small dent in the needs of the billions on Earth, or that it would be cost-effective to ship it back. I'm sure Earth is buying raw materials, not organic materials.


I may be overthinking here (and this may be something we're not supposed to look at too closely) but if the majority of Earth is on public assistance, they're not paying taxes.

Since there still appear to be mega-corporations, I assume that they're paying higher tax rates and would pass on those costs to customers.

Of course, if Earth citizens can't pay for their goods and services, then they have to look to other markets on Mars and the Belt if they don't solely work for the UN.

And that's not factoring in the possibility of the UN levying export taxes on goods leaving Earth.
(Or the UN is running at colossal deficits.)

So with goods and services coming from Earth costing a pretty penny, that would factor into the Canterbury making runs to Saturn for ice and a hell of a lot of resentment from the Belters.


----------



## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

JYoung said:


> I may be overthinking here (and this may be something we're not supposed to look at too closely)


It isn't something we're supposed to look at too closely.This is how the authors have responded to questions about The Expanse's universe:

Q: So how does the Epstein Drive really work?
A: It's efficient.

Q: So how does a society pay for 15 Billion people on Basic Assistance?
A: The surplus of what they produce pays for it.

It isn't satisfying. But we've had to swallow far more implausible stuff; like the money-less future of Star Trek's universe. It's not inconceivable that we'd be far better at food and energy production in 200 years. And instead of scarcity, people on Basic have to cope with lower quality. ("gray-tasting food" is one of the descriptors from the books)


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Saturn_V said:


> It isn't something we're supposed to look at too closely.


That's fair but a tad disappointing.
I was hoping that this was another layer in building the Universe and adding another dramatic element.

I believe I'm on record about Star Trek's "moneyless" society though.


----------



## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

There's an SP alert at Syfy - The Magicians; The Expanse (4/5/2017) about s2, e11 "Here There Be Dragons" possibly not being recorded due [email protected]$#$ Rovi. Grr.

I see it at TV Listings Grid, TV Guide and TV Schedule, Where to Watch TV Shows - Screener.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Saturn_V said:


> And instead of scarcity, people on Basic have to cope with lower quality. ("gray-tasting food" is one of the descriptors from the books)


So the UN is feeding them Soylent Gray?


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

JYoung said:


> That's fair but a tad disappointing.
> I was hoping that this was another layer in building the Universe and adding another dramatic element.





JYoung said:


> So the UN is feeding them Soylent Gray?


Cheese and Ice Cream still exist- but not if you're on Basic. We know from S1 that they recycle the dead on Ceres. I'm sure they can work that conspiracy angle in if they ever run out of plot from the books.

The books never allude to anything along the lines of "Earth in trouble" because of resource scarcity or declining viability. But there are severe restrictions on procreation on Earth. You'll never not share a bedroom if you're on Basic.

My curiosity about 50% unemployment and completely dependent on gov't subsidies isn't economic (how the hell do they pay for it) but societal and psychological. 1/2 the planet's must depressed as hell or doped to the gills- for generations.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

S2, E10 "Cascade" was insightful. I guess it wasn't the decent living that I expected, unless those homeless people weren't getting universal basic income.

In the books, did Bobbie run from the MCR complex? Out of curiosity, does anyone know where the physical building for that complex is or is it CGI/VFX?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cwerdna said:


> In the books, did Bobbie run from the MCR complex? Out of curiosity, does anyone know where the physical building for that complex is or is it CGI/VFX?


I'm guessing it's a real building, because on the outside there are no windows!


----------



## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I'm guessing it's a real building, because on the outside there are no windows!


The MCR Embassy? That's the Science building at University of Toronto, Scarborough with some minor CGI tweaking.

That whole school is basically a shrine to concrete.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

It was a weird choice to use a building with literally no windows to portray a building that has very extensive windows on the inside!


----------



## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It was a weird choice to use a building with literally no windows to portray a building that has very extensive windows on the inside!


Maybe the MCR has really good CGI technology.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Loved the scene with Alex alone on the plane singing and chasing droplets around.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

stellie93 said:


> Loved the scene with Alex alone on the plane singing and chasing droplets around.


I wasn't too crazy about it. If your one job is to be ready at a moment's notice to swoop in and rescue the crew, getting drunk really shouldn't be part of the program...

Not to mention leaving what, under heavy acceleration, would be a lot of potentially deadly projectiles floating in your workspace!

Not of that scene really seemed in character for a highly-trained pilot like Alex...


----------



## oscarfish (Mar 2, 2009)

I'm confused about this. Avasarala gets a deep dive info dump on the Jules-Pierre Mao protomolecule weapons research from Errinwright. She then shows a picture of the hybrid creature to Bobby, but tells Bobby it's part of Martian weapons research. Is Avasarala lying about that? It seems like she must. The hybrid came from the UN controlled area of Ganymede. I suppose the Martians could have dropped in in over on the UN side.


----------



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

oscarfish said:


> I'm confused about this. Avasarala gets a deep dive info dump on the Jules-Pierre Mao protomolecule weapons research from Errinwright. She then shows a picture of the hybrid creature to Bobby, but tells Bobby it's part of Martian weapons research. Is Avasarala lying about that? It seems like she must. The hybrid came from the UN controlled area of Ganymede. I suppose the Martians could have dropped in in over on the UN side.


I'm assuming that Errinwright when 'coming clean' to Avasarala, lied about the "for the Martians" part - so he could shift blame for the research to Mars (shifting blame from the UN to Mars, or from a private corporation to Mars, I have no idea). I could of course be completely wrong. But that part of his admission seemed, out of place...


----------



## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

oscarfish said:


> I'm confused about this. Avasarala gets a deep dive info dump on the Jules-Pierre Mao protomolecule weapons research from Errinwright. She then shows a picture of the hybrid creature to Bobby, but tells Bobby it's part of Martian weapons research. Is Avasarala lying about that? It seems like she must.


It could very well be Mars behind the Ganymede Protomolecule. Jules-Pierre Mao left Errinwright in the dust- it's plausible he still needed a govt sponsor. (odds are Mao was playing both sides) And the MCRN Scirroco did blow up Phoebe station to cover up protomolecule evidence there. And there is no other explanation that would explain the MCR ordering Bobby to lie. And if Martians are testing Protomolecule Monsters- of course, they'll throw em at UN Marines.



Rob Helmerichs said:


> I wasn't too crazy about it. If your one job is to be ready at a moment's notice to swoop in and rescue the crew, getting drunk really shouldn't be part of the program...


I didn't mind it so much. The show's so heavy, I actually welcome moments of levity.


----------



## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

kaszeta said:


> The MCR Embassy? That's the Science building at University of Toronto, Scarborough with some minor CGI tweaking.
> 
> That whole school is basically a shrine to concrete.


Thanks! I found UTSC Science Wing, Toronto | 1235183 | EMPORIS thanks to Google.

They mentioned brutalism architectural style which I've definitely heard of. The former (demolished now) San Jose main library was of that style: King Library Digital Collections.

edit: Some Googling turned up The Expanse filming locations - Movie Maps.

The site's pretty cool. After some more digging, Toronto Wedding Venues - Downtown Toronto Weddings at The Fairmont looks like the room where the UN and Martians met.


----------



## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

Well, we got our answer about what happened to Bobbie and the troops on both sides on Ganymede. Interesting.

I wonder if we'll find out what happened to Mei and all the other children before season 2 is over.


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

It seemed to me that they sort of told us what happened to the kids, in this episode. But maybe I just misinterpreted it.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

madscientist said:


> It seemed to me that they sort of told us what happened to the kids, in this episode. But maybe I just misinterpreted it.


They showed us what happened to one of them. But the rest are an open question...


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> They showed us what happened to one of them. But the rest are an open question...


Two of them right? The one they burned and the one gallivanting around on the surface after committing mass murder. I guess we don't know for sure that was one of the kids...?


----------



## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

Didn't think it was great idea for the Under Secretary to visit Mr. Mao. I didn't see some of these things coming: the actions that Errinwright took and the protomolecule soldier latching into the Roci.

In the book, did Errinwright also kill the Martian defense minister, destroy that MCRN pickup ship and threaten Mr. Mao in this way?

Back to the earlier part about Alex and his fooling around against music when waiting, I rewatched part of ep 1 and noticed he was a guy w/headphones on. Maybe he was always a music guy.

Also, in the books, is Amos portrayed like the brute that he seems to be in the show?

Side note: Anyone watching the Inside The Expanse videos (one per ep) found at The Expanse and in their iOS app? I've watched probably most of those.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I need to reread the books, because I'm not remembering a lot of the stuff from this season as the same. Maybe stuff from different books is being thrown together? Or maybe it's just different. Anyway, the books would be well worth reading again. :up:

Amos is a work in progress through the books, but one thing he always does is exactly what Naomi says. Disobeying her was out of character, to me.


----------



## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

I was reading The Monster and the Rocket and it says "He orders Mao to kill Avasarala and return to Earth alone, so they can resume their partnership."

I didn't catch Errinwright telling Mao to kill Avasarala, only the return the Earth alone part. I rewatched that clip via SyFy's iOS app and still didn't hear the kill part. I guess one could interpret it that way, but I hadn't. Does that mean that the UN/Errinwright will attempt to shoot down her ship on the way back or try to kill her via some other means soon?


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

cwerdna said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good gawd.. please please spoilerize that in your original, there's "spoilers allowed" and there's "can we be considerate of non-book readers" that's a potential huge plot point to be discussing.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

dianebrat said:


> Good gawd.. please please spoilerize that in your original, there's "spoilers allowed" and there's "can we be considerate of non-book readers" that's a potential huge plot point to be discussing.


That's not from the book, that's from the official Syfy recap of the latest episode.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That's not from the book, that's from the official Syfy recap of the latest episode.


I read that as first line is saying " I'm reading this book and it says this" then below saying "but the show said this"
Clearly I didn't catch the syntax that it wasn't a book issue, but a Syfy synopsis, I was caffeine deficient


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

To be fair, it was ambiguous, but the title of his link didn't match any of the books, so I hovered the cursor over the link and saw that it was to the Syfy recaps site.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> To be fair, it was ambiguous, but the title of his link didn't match any of the books, so I hovered the cursor over the link and saw that it was to the Syfy recaps site.


Yeah, this is a side effect of this new software automatically grabbing titles of target pages and making them the link text.

There's one person here on TCF who used to complain that I'd just copy and paste links. With the old software, it would just only show the URL. FWIW, that person is the only person on any forum I'm on who has complained about this.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

My recording of the finalé cut off at the end...did anything happen after Mei's pod closed and moved away?


----------



## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Okay, so what happened to the science ship at Venus near the end of the episode? It just sorta disassembled and spread out, while it appeared the occupants were still alive and kinda looking around at each other.

(yes, I have read the books, but I don't recall this bit, so I'll just pretend I'm not a book reader and concentrate on what happened on the show)


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

It looked like...something was examining the ship and its contents. In great detail.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> My recording of the finalé cut off at the end...did anything happen after Mei's pod closed and moved away?


The science dude who was holding her (I forget his name since we've only seen him in flashbacks) walks away whistling "Ring and the Rosie" and we zoom out seeing more pods.

Credits....


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

Next on Mythbusters, can you really survive on Venus.

--Carlos "interesting cameo" V.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

Yeah, that was an interesting cameo


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

kaszeta said:


> Yeah, that was an interesting cameo


I totally forgot about Adam Savage's cameo until I saw the credits. I had to go back in my recording to spot him on the ship exploring Venus.

That disassembly at the end was unique. I don't think I've ever seen anything like it in sci-fi.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

smbaker said:


> (yes, I have read the books, but I don't recall this bit, so I'll just pretend I'm not a book reader and concentrate on what happened on the show)


The Arboghast's fate is in the novel, _Caliban's War_, but it's mentioned in passing and isn't told in detail like the show. It's probably a couple of pages. Interesting that the show made this a huge-season-ending moment.



cwerdna said:


> That disassembly at the end was unique. I don't think I've ever seen anything like it in sci-fi.


One of the reviews I've read calls it the show's "Monolith moment" Amazing and unsettling in the same spoonful.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

cwerdna said:


> That disassembly at the end was unique. I don't think I've ever seen anything like it in sci-fi.


Doctor Manhattan would do something similar in Watchman but not on that level of detail.
(And Watchmen is arguably not Sci-Fi.)


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

JYoung said:


> Doctor Manhattan would do something similar in Watchman but not on that level of detail.
> (And Watchmen is arguably not Sci-Fi.)


<insert generic rant on that dumb movie/>


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

cwerdna said:


> That disassembly at the end was unique. I don't think I've ever seen anything like it in sci-fi.


I seem to recall the aliens doing something similar to a house in Childhood's End.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

The protomolecule man: Did it remind anyone else of the robots in "I Robot"? Especially when it was climbing around the outside of the ship. The way it moved looked exactly the same, like maybe the effects team was using the same motion algorithms.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I didn't like this episode that much. Or, rather, I liked parts of it a lot but felt that portions of the episode were silly or stupid. The capstone of stupidity being the use of elevator / duct-work cliches. The scenes on the Roci felt weak to me as well. Sort of like a throw-away episode of a lesser Star Trek show. 

Avasarala went from incredibly intelligent and manipulative to totally stupid in this episode. The whole negotiation thing could have gone 50 different ways that were smarter than this.

I did really like seeing Frankie Adams working her boxing skills, though! And the disassembly scene was really nice.


----------



## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

tomhorsley said:


> The protomolecule man: Did it remind anyone else of the robots in "I Robot"? Especially when it was climbing around the outside of the ship.


I re-watched part of the scene recently I realized an inconsistency/question: How did it stick to the outside of the ship? Did it have adhesives in its feet or could it secrete them? Or, did it have magnetism it could turn on/off?


----------



## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

cwerdna said:


> I re-watched part of the scene recently I realized an inconsistency/question: How did it stick to the outside of the ship? Did it have adhesives in its feet or could it secrete them? Or, did it have magnetism it could turn on/off?


Who knows? The books established that it could cause radio blackouts, so if it can do that, maybe it can magnetize its feet. Or perhaps it grows gecko feet Synthetic setae - Wikipedia


----------



## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

__ https://www.facebook.com/


has a 6.5 minute video featuring the actor who plays Alex about what space combat should look like.

There aren't really any spoilers in it.


----------



## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

A lot of YouTube channels are analyzing the science within the science fiction of The Expanse. Some of the commentary is actually pretty good. 
Let's Do The Science


----------



## oscarfish (Mar 2, 2009)

I need to be very careful here, these videos could end up costing me a lot of time. I'll bet if I look around I can find one that addresses the "juice" that helps them deal with high Gs.

In this video in Ceres, it discusses the native water that is/was on Ceres, and how in The Expanse universe earth took it. I sort of kind of vaguely remember that (either from the book or TV), but I don't remember why they took it. They didn't just take it and shoot it off into space. The water must be somewhere.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I'm no scientist--I had no idea there would be so much--or even any--water out there. Interesting stuff. :up:


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

oscarfish said:


> In this video in Ceres, it discusses the native water that is/was on Ceres, and how in The Expanse universe earth took it. I sort of kind of vaguely remember that (either from the book or TV), but I don't remember why they took it. They didn't just take it and shoot it off into space. The water must be somewhere.


It's in people's stomachs on Earth. Billions of people have to get their drinking water somewhere. It's a problem we're starting to see already with Southern California taking water to drink (and water lawns, agriculture, etc.) from the Rocky Mountain states. And it's reaching the point where there isn't enough to spare. Getting limitless water from off-planet would greatly enable Earthers to avoid having to deal with the consequences of their population and consumption habits.


----------



## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

FYI,

A new book in the '_Expanse'_ series has been released.

It's called *'Persepolis Rising'*.


----------



## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

Started the audio book already.


----------



## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

Season 2 on Amazon Prime on Feb 7


----------



## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

jakerock said:


> Started the audio book already.


And I don't know how they do it but once again they wrote something AWESOME!


----------



## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

Malcontent said:


> FYI,
> A new book in the '_Expanse'_ series has been released.
> It's called *'Persepolis Rising'*.


Just finished reading it. Quite enjoyed it. I believe I read somewhere :



Spoiler: SPOILER



They're treating these last three books as a sort of trilogy. This being the first of those final three, lots of setup for future events happen, in addition to all the cool stuff that happens in this one.


----------



## doom1701 (May 15, 2001)

Saturn_V said:


> Season 2 on Amazon Prime on Feb 7


Awesome. I have a feeling I'll be binge watching while I'm on a trip next week.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Does Amazon release all the episodes at once like Netflix?


----------



## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

Season 2 is *last year's* episodes. So they'll be all at once.

Season 3 premiere date has not been announced yet, but it'll air on SYFY first before OTT/Streaming.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Saturn_V said:


> Season 2 is *last year's* episodes. So they'll be all at once.
> 
> Season 3 premiere date has not been announced yet, but it'll air on SYFY first before OTT/Streaming.


oh...crap...I didn't realize that and was all excited about a new season...I just assumed it was moved over to Amazon or something...

well, I feel silly!


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I thought I read somewhere that the Expanse, Season 3, would air in June?

I think I might just purchase this season from Amazon or Vudu, since the quality is much better than from SyFy.


----------



## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

The initial rumor was sometime in March after Winter Olympics. 

June hasn't been confirmed yet. I'm betting that the Westworld and Handmaids premieres (both in April) are what pushed Expanse into the Summer.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Saturn_V said:


> June hasn't been confirmed yet. I'm betting that the Westworld and Handmaids premieres (both in April) are what pushed Expanse into the Summer.


??? What do Westworld and Handmaiden have to do with The Expanse?


----------



## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

Positioning. It's still about ratings and capturing eyeballs, even in a cord-cut world.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

By the way, the actress who pays Julie Mao had a fairly long arc on SHIELD. I thought she looked familiar under all that blue.


----------



## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

wprager said:


> By the way, the actress who pays Julie Mao had a fairly long arc on SHIELD. I thought she looked familiar under all that blue.


Omg that was her!?


----------



## haniwa202 (Jan 28, 2014)

I re-binged watch season 1 before watching season 2. Much easier to follow. I will probably have to binge watch seasons 1 and 2 prior to season 3...LOL.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

haniwa202 said:


> I re-binged watch season 1 before watching season 2. Much easier to follow. I will probably have to binge watch seasons 1 and 2 prior to season 3...LOL


If only they'd tell us when season 3 will air or give us a new trailer. Grrr. Aargh!


----------



## dfreybur (Jan 27, 2006)

I see season 2 in the Hulu interface but Tivo search does not find it. I watched the season trailer. I will tentatively watch all of season 2 once I finish season 5 of Stargate Atlantis - I watch entire seasons while in the exercise bike in the mornings.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

Season 3 - April 11th


----------



## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

I've recently streamed a couple of season 1 episodes from amazon prime. The "HD" version (they have two versions in order to confuse you) looks really good on my LG OLED. It will be interesting to compare the picture quality on the comcast squished broadcast version. Might be just the right amount of time to watch seasons 1 and 2 before April 11.


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Just finished seasons 1 & 2 and i love this show. At this point it's one of my favorites ever. I think partly because it hasn't gone of the rails yet like most shows do.

Now I need to find something else to watch.


----------



## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

JohnB1000 said:


> Just finished seasons 1 & 2 and i love this show.
> ...
> Now I need to find something else to watch.


Season 3 eps?


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Not until Primed.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

JohnB1000 said:


> Just finished seasons 1 & 2 and i love this show. At this point it's one of my favorites ever. I think partly because it hasn't gone of the rails yet like most shows do.
> 
> Now I need to find something else to watch.


If you're a reader, try the books. They're awesome, and the story has only just begun on TV. :up:


----------



## Tsiehta (Jul 22, 2002)

https://io9.gizmodo.com/syfy-says-this-season-of-the-expanse-will-be-the-last-o-1825944225


----------



## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

Alcon announced they're shopping the show, which is better than a straight cancellation announcement. We're not half-way through season 3- still plenty of time.


----------



## doom1701 (May 15, 2001)

I expect it to land somewhere. From the articles, it sounds like SyFy dropping it has more to do with the limited rights that they have, rather than the viewership of the show overall. I'm sure a good chunk of the show's viewers (myself included) are streaming it when it hits Amazon Prime, or possibly even buying the season that way. SyFy sees nothing from that.

I'd love to know the number of people who have bought seasons of the show on Amazon; I wonder if it would wind up being an overall $ negative if Amazon were to pick up exclusive rights to it.


----------



## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

I stream it from SyFy itself. Isn't that good enough for them!?! And given how annoying the commercials are (it makes you watch all of them EVEN if you're only trying to watch the last few minutes of the show because the stream locked up) they owe me more episodes! Dag nab it.


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

We bought the first two seasons on Amazon because during that time we didn't get SyFy with our cable package. This season we have SyFy again so we watch it there.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jakerock said:


> I stream it from SyFy itself. Isn't that good enough for them!?! And given how annoying the commercials are (it makes you watch all of them EVEN if you're only trying to watch the last few minutes of the show because the stream locked up) they owe me more episodes! Dag nab it.


Just out of curiosity, I've always wondered...what is a sufficiently advanced troll indistinguishable from?


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

jakerock said:


> I stream it from SyFy itself. Isn't that good enough for them!?! And given how annoying the commercials are (it makes you watch all of them EVEN if you're only trying to watch the last few minutes of the show because the stream locked up) they owe me more episodes! Dag nab it.


Something I discovered by accident: Adblock Plus, the Firefox extension, is remarkably effective on SyFy streams. (Or was, as of last year.)


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Just out of curiosity, I've always wondered...what is a sufficiently advanced troll indistinguishable from?


"Any sufficiently advanced troll is indistinguishable from a genuine kook _or_ the viewpoints of even the most extreme crank are indistinguishable from sufficiently advanced satire (Poe's law)." from wickerpedia Clarke's three laws - Wikipedia

I once replied to a thread about something ridiculous (to me anyway) in a sarcastic manner that at least one person took as sincere and was surprised to think: holy cow this person actually believes that I (or anyone) could say or believe that to be true? At this point I realized that I was that troll.

An example would be I could almost certainly go on a Flat Earth website and spew crazy funny things and be taken seriously by some people because let's face it when you're a two dimensional thinker anyone coming out of the third axis is using magic.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

Saturn_V said:


> Alcon announced they're shopping the show, which is better than a straight cancellation announcement. We're not half-way through season 3- still plenty of time.


Time is of the essence. The problem is, the actors being uncertain whether they'll have another job w/this show make go looking for other work and be unavailable for future seasons, if it happens.

Also, sets can get taken down. Watch the latest The Expanse episode on DVR or Amazon currently claims "This used to be the set for Avasarala's office. It was taken down yesterday.".

There was even a banner flown over Amazon Studios' HQ (apparently in Santa Monica) per Save 'The Expanse'! Fans, Celebs (and Even an Astronaut) Rally Behind Canceled Show. I wonder if the same banner was also flown over Hulu HQ (also in So Cal) and Netflix's LA office (in LA).


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

If the show is going to be picked up- the prospective buyers are going to wait on what the ratings say for the remainder of season. The only way I see that changing is if the show pulls a 2M share between now and the finale. 2M viewers would rank it up with Battlestar. (it could happen, since we're entering a new story arc from the Abbadon's Gate novel and things will ramp up exponentially)
Current Season 3 Ratings



cwerdna said:


> I wonder if the same banner was also flown over Hulu HQ (also in So Cal) and Netflix's LA office (in LA).


Show crewmembers say that Netflix has already rejected The Expanse according to the fansite. Not surprising since Netflix already has sunk a boatload on SciFi content already. (which includes int'l exclusivity to Star Trek Discovery and The Expanse a year after air) So the campaign is focused on Amazon.

I've signed the change.org petition.
I've created an Amazon Studios account and sent them an email
I'm re-watching the episodes I purchased on Amazon. 
Can't stop the work.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Saturn_V said:


> If the show is going to be picked up- the prospective buyers are going to wait on what the ratings say for the remainder of season. The only way I see that changing is if the show pulls a 2M share between now and the finale. 2M viewers would rank it up with Battlestar. (it could happen, since we're entering a new story arc from the Abbadon's Gate novel and things will ramp up exponentially)


It could happen? You're talking about increasing by 300-400% over how it's been performing this season! That seems like a fantasy to me...winning the lottery-level fantasy. Jennifer Lawrence falling madly in love with me-level fantasy. Something that's technically possible but will never actually happen.

The highest it's ever drawn is 1.19 million, and that was the pilot.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

To be honest, with S2's numbers I was a bit surprised it even got a S3.

The Expanse can't be cheap to produce; while it's no Westworld, they haven't been slacking with production values, so it's probably running around $5-$7M per episode.

There is a lot about the economics of modern TV and movie production that I can't even begin to wrap my head around, but that's a _lot_ of money for that small audience. That's a lot of money also for the streaming world; Netflix or Amazon would need to be able to use that to draw in and retain more viewers for them to pick it up.

Sad, because I'll miss it, but I've got to believe SyFy is losing a lot of money on this one.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

kaszeta said:


> Sad, because I'll miss it, but I've got to believe SyFy is losing a lot of money on this one.


Although we don't know what Syfy is paying for the limited rights they have...


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Although we don't know what Syfy is paying for the limited rights they have...


Agreed, but there's not a lot of other outlets for _The Expanse_ right now, so SyFy's got to be shouldering a substantial part of the cost.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

Help Me Jeff Bezos. You're our only hope.

'The Expanse' Revived for Season 4 at Amazon


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Saturn_V said:


> Help Me Jeff Bezos. You're our only hope.
> 
> 'The Expanse' Revived for Season 4 at Amazon


Pretty misleading headline, Hollywood Reporter!

Hopefully it will come to pass...


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Spoiler: something from season 3



Ouch! Someone forgot to bring the inertial dampeners to the party!


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Oops, just realized this thread says S2 and we're actually in S3. Spoilerizing my post. kdmorse you might want to do the same.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I definitely wasn't expecting a head explosion/decapitation in this episode. That guy was annoying, any way. I know he was too far out to have real time communication but it looked like his girlfriend and his brother were laughing at his death.

The woman who sabotaged the machinery and killed her co-worker had a negative opinion of Holden. Should I remember her from earlier in the season? They reintroduced a couple of characters from previous seasons in this episode and I got a brain cramp from trying to remember them.


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## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> The woman who sabotaged the machinery and killed her co-worker had a negative opinion of Holden. Should I remember her from earlier in the season? They reintroduced a couple of characters from previous seasons in this episode and I got a brain cramp from trying to remember them.





Spoiler



I don't know if we have seen her before but my first thought was she could be another daughter of Jules Mao.



Edit: I haven't read the books. I'm just speculating.


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## dfreybur (Jan 27, 2006)

Still not visible in Tivo. Even though I can see it in the All Episodes list. I'll get to the season in a while.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

They're really throwing in stuff from later books. Good thing I've read them or I know I'd be lost and confused. (as usual)


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

cheesesteak: Uhhh, you just posted some stuff from season 3, the disappointing to me ep: Delta-V.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

We should either create a Season 3 thread or episode threads but not discuss season 3 on the season 2 thread.

The last S3 episode _Delta-V_ was great! A big shift... very exciting.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

Season 4 pickup is now official. Straight from the Bezos' mouth.

'The Expanse' Officially Revived for Season 4 at Amazon


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

madscientist said:


> We should either create a Season 3 thread or episode threads...


There are season 3 episode threads already. If threads or any eps are missing, feel free to create them.


madscientist said:


> not discuss season 3 on the season 2 thread.


Agreed.


madscientist said:


> The last S3 episode _Delta-V_ was great! A big shift... very exciting.


I thought it was a big letdown.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Saturn_V said:


> Season 4 pickup is now official. Straight from the Bezos' mouth.
> 
> 'The Expanse' Officially Revived for Season 4 at Amazon


Sweet!!!!!!


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