# The Blacklist "Pilot" 9/23/2013



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

I had high hopes, read some decent reviews. But not for me, I'm one & done (technically, 1/2 and done).

After 26 different cliches & tropes were rolled out before the first break, I said goodbye. My wife lasted until the next commercial.

Bad guy walks into FBI HQ, sets briefcase down, takes off jacket, starts to unrobe. People just watch him. WTF people would be on terrorist lockdown if that happened. Then when they wake-up, the shooters surround him 360. 360! So they can shoot each other?

She's late her first day. But the helicopters can pick her up. And her husband gets pissed because his wife, AN FBI AGENT, can't break away after lunch to meet the baby doc. ON HER FIRST DAY.

And then the car crash trope. Puhleeze, not again. And then I checked out.

My wife stayed until the break, got up and walked away. I told her not to be swayed because I gave up. She said, no it got even worse.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Wow, I had the exact opposite reaction. I thought it was just made of hook. I don't think a first hour of a show has grabbed me like that since Lost.

I have no idea if it can sustain it, but I'm so in.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Wow, I had the exact opposite reaction. I thought it was just made of hook. I don't think a first hour of a show has grabbed me like that since Lost.
> 
> I have no idea if it can sustain it, but I'm so in.


I'm more with Rob on this one. I thought it was pretty good. Some nice twists and some tension. It had it's problems though. Some of the tropes that Astrohip mentioned but also things like the FBI not seeing the obvious trap with the chemical spill and Spader's character was a bit all too powerful, but overall something that has caught my interest.


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## rimler (Jun 30, 2002)

I'm sorry, but all of the cheesy over the top cliche's was just too much. I almost wonder how the actors kept a straight face through it.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

I was also terribly bothered by the cliches, tropes, and absurd behaviors. But unfortunately, I am a sucker for a masterful bad guy (or good guy) like Reddington. I am going to keep watching, for at least a few episodes, to see what his plan might be. I just hope he does not turn out to be Elizabeth's father or uncle or something that could have easily been verified with a DNA test.


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

I enjoyed it, but just felt like I was watching a Reader's Digest version of the story. It moved way too fast. I could have done with a 90 minute premiere.

I'm a huge Spader fan so I admit I am biased. It's nice to see that he's lost weight.

But yes, the whole thing was absurd. Highly unrealistic and yeah, there's those cliches too. Still, I was entertained.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

astrohip said:


> And her husband gets pissed because his wife, AN FBI AGENT, can't break away after lunch to meet the baby doc. ON HER FIRST DAY.


I, too, was annoyed by that during the call. But in the part you did not watch, it turns out that her husband is a spy or something, so maybe he was just trying to get more information out of her.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

I'm in. I like Spader and the female lead. Some of it was goofy but it is television so I don't expect perfection. SP is set.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

In for Spader.

The car crash was particularly annoying because we just saw it last week on another show, but all in all I enjoyed it.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Cearbhaill said:


> The car crash was particularly annoying because we just saw it last week on another show, but all in all I enjoyed it.


Normally the Car Broadside Crash Trope bothers me, a lot (and don't we see it every week on one show or another?)...but at least in this case they set it up so the car was trapped on a bridge with one lane cleared, and specifically attacked when it was turned sideways.

The somewhat more annoying trope in that case was the Omniscient Villain (who was able to set everything up as he did), but since this seems like it's going to be a show about an Omniscient Hero(?) vs. Omniscient Villains every week, I guess we'd better get used to it.

And then there was the logical question of, even assuming he could set up the crash as he did, why would he? The object of the exercise was to capture the little girl, so tossing the SUV she's in around like that would seem to pose potential obstacles to the ultimate success of the plan...

But again, that's clearly the kind of show this is going to be, and as long as Spader is as smarmily pompous and Boone is as cutely determined and the story continues to be an over-the-top rocket ride, I'll be in. At least, until/unless the rocket crashes and explodes.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And then there was the logical question of, even assuming he could set up the crash as he did, why would he? The object of the exercise was to capture the little girl, so tossing the SUV she's in around like that would seem to pose potential obstacles to the ultimate success of the plan...


Not to mention the stupid threat with the mask and the smoke bomb. Sheesh, take the mask for herself, tell the girl to hold her breath and close her eyes, then shoot the bastard! Or put the mask on the girl, close one eye and hold your breath, and then throw the bomb out again and shoot the bastard! Or just shoot the bastard through the door while the idiot is counting on his fingers. At least shoot him through the hand!

I really hate the trope of just trusting bad guys who obviously have no morals (kidnapping a little girl) to not hurt people because you do what they say.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

I enjoyed it, though it was late when I watched it and I think I fell asleep towards the end. I'll rewatch with my wife later.


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

Everything was just too contrived and convenient for my tastes.

Everyone in the right place at exactly the right moment, especially Spader and his bomb-disarming buddy appearing out of nowhere at the park at exactly the right moment to permit the last wire to clipped with 10 seconds left on the countdown clock (really? countdown clock?).

My hope is they stuffed 90 minutes of material into 60 minutes as noted above, to set the hook with any one a dozen manipulative plot devices from every crime drama from the last 10 years, hoping we'll be back. Maybe week 2 will settle in to a fresh new story?


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Quite a bit like Silence of the Lambs.


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

Cliches or not, we enjoyed it.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Ok, I went back and finished it last night laying in bed. Still no go for me. It seems a lot like Revolution, a show I liked and watched for 2/3 of its season, before finally giving up. Liked the concept, but the writing drove me away. I can see that here.

We have the super-omniscient bad guy. I'm tired of that. The super-newbie good guy. I'm tired of that. The husband with the secret. Too many tired old writing gimmicks. It was mildly entertaining, but not enough (IMHO) to keep watching.

I figure Red is a deep-cover agent. Didn't they say he was an FBI guy who _suddenly and without warning_ went bad? The Concierge of Crime? (Really, that's the best they could come up with?) And now he's back for whatever reason, to work with junior agent to stop bad guys? I say he's deep under, and really a good guy.

The timer that stops at 00:10 seconds, the bomb expert who shows up in the nick of time, the bad guy who's standing on a building ledge. I guess if I really liked it, you overlook that. But now I'm pulling an Under the Dumb where I can't let the nits go unpicked.

And the bit where Red won't give up any info unless newbie "tells him something". Waaaaaaay too much Hannibal in that scene for me. And Spader ain't no Hopkins.

I'm not here to threadcrap, really, just share what bothered me. And with a 6-tuner Roamio, I'll keep recording it. Just in case, ya' know.


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## andyw715 (Jul 31, 2007)

After watching The Dome for the past 3 months anything seems worthwhile. 
I liked it.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

andyw715 said:


> After watching The Dome for the past 3 months anything seems worthwhile.
> I liked it.


Well, I gave up on The Dome fairly early on (when the truck crashed into the water tower), and I liked this a lot. It's awfully goofy, yes, but (so far, at least) it's a GOOD goofy, not a let's-mock-the-stupid-viewer goofy.

The Dome was tedious and stupid from the beginning, although I gave it a chance. This is, for me, pop-culture crack. So far.


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## Flop (Dec 2, 2005)

I'm in for now. Not the best pilot I've ever seen but it was entertaining enough for me to keep watching.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

It has a lot of cliches, but my wife and I still enjoyed it. We miss campy action shows like this and it feels like a slightly meatier Nikita mixed with some Silence of the Lambs. I am sure we will grow weary of it quickly, but for now it's a keeper.

The logistics of the car crash were fine in terms of the crash. As mentioned, it makes no sense that they would actually initiate the car crash, and it's unclear to me why they were the only people on that bridge.

What are the chances that Red is NOT her father?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> What are the chances that Red is NOT her father?


Oh, I'd say at least 2%. Maybe even 3%.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

I thought it was completely stupid. I'll just let it sort itself out based on whatever accumulates for me to watch as the season gets underway. I can't see this one lasting, though. It was pretty much a goner for all the advance hype they were giving it because they had cast James Spader in the role. Maybe they can turn stupid into entertaining. You never can quite tell up front.


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

I tuned in because of James Spader. That's the same reason I'll stick around some.

Lots of clichés. The car broadside didn't bug me because I was still complaining to the TV set that a convoy of security vehicles stops in the confined space of the bridge, gets bunched up and makes a U-turn. If you have that many people there to protect the little girl you don't do something stupid like that.

It was a little freaky that on two different shows I watched yesterday I saw an official stab a prisoner in custody in the right side of the neck with a pen.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Ratings were quite good.

We'll see what happens next week. I'll give it another chance.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

cherry ghost said:


> Ratings were quite good.
> 
> We'll see what happens next week. I'll give it another chance.


Having The Voice as a lead in definitely helped it in the ratings. I'm sure it will drop next week but even a full ratings point drop would be really good for NBC. Hostages on the other hand looks like it could be in trouble. A 1.8 on CBS is not good.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Turtleboy said:


> Quite a bit like Silence of the Lambs.


Yes. I thought this immediately and started to switch channels since I loathe those movies. However, the intel is about terroristic psychos which is more interesting to me.


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## dwit (May 5, 2004)

Actually wasn't so bad. Pleasantly surprised. 

Don't really pay much attention to new shows, etc., unless a Tivo ad catches my attention.

Thanks for the heads up.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Azlen said:


> I'm more with Rob on this one. I thought it was pretty good. Some nice twists and some tension. It had it's problems though. Some of the tropes that Astrohip mentioned but also things like the FBI not seeing the obvious trap with the chemical spill and Spader's character was a bit all too powerful, but overall something that has caught my interest.


I pretty much agree with this.

This show was on my radar because I like the idea of Spader portraying a sociopath.

The chemical spill trap was the one thing that nearly pulled me out of the show as it was so stupid but Spader and Boone are making this work for me for now.

I'm in for a few more episodes.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> What are the chances that Red is NOT her father?


The real question is do they know, or are they making it up as they go along?


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## Gerryex (Apr 24, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, I gave up on The Dome fairly early on (when the truck crashed into the water tower), and I liked this a lot. It's awfully goofy, yes, but (so far, at least) it's a GOOD goofy, not a let's-mock-the-stupid-viewer goofy.


Yeah, I also gave up on The Dome a while ago, but I thought The Blacklist was pretty good and I'll be sticking with it for now.



JYoung said:


> The chemical spill trap was the one thing that nearly pulled me out of the show as it was so stupid but Spader and Boone are making this work for me for now.


Yes, this was VERY DUMB! I'm yelling at the TV, ITS A TRAP!! But of course the good guys say OK, we'll just make a U turn here - no problem!!

Gerry


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## Bettamojo5 (Apr 12, 2004)

Watched it, liked it, season pass set.


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

I thought it was rather terrible. Spader is the only reason I'll give it another episode in the hope they dial the stupid down a notch.


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## BradJW (Jun 9, 2008)

I watched Hostages last night and saved the Blacklist for tonight. The Blacklist was definitely better. Nice to see Spader back on TV in a decent role.

I'm gonna keep watching both. I like the fact that Hostages is billed as a 13 episode miniseries, so I don't need to devote a ton of time to it. 

But I pretty much liked everything about The Blacklist.


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## bsnelson (Oct 30, 1999)

A lot of tropes, yes, but some good stuff. 

I can't believe nobody's brought this up yet, but we've already been shown the key to some of Reddington's omniscience: He's behind the operative that was clearly placed to become her husband. That's where he got his info about her (my wife gets credit for noticing this). 

If nothing else, as has oft been said already, we're in for Spader. 

Brad


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

bsnelson said:


> I can't believe nobody's brought this up yet, but we've already been shown the key to some of Reddington's omniscience: He's behind the operative that was clearly placed to become her husband. That's where he got his info about her (my wife gets credit for noticing this).


Noticing what, exactly?


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I liked it. I enjoy Spader and will stay for that. Him getting a pen in the neck was a surprise. 

I thought the attack on the bridge was hinky and I asked why couldn't she take the bomb and throw it back out the window?

I kept feeling like Silence of the Lambs throughout it. Sitting and facing each other to talk, then later with him making certain requests for food and such.


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

Well dang. I came here hoping it would be a landslide one way or the other, but it seems fairly evenly split. Now I guess I'll have to watch and decide on my own.


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

I enjoyed it more than I wanted to.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

sushikitten said:


> Now I guess I'll have to watch and decide on my own.


Don'cha hate when that happens?


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Not great, but good enough to keep watching.


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## Archangel00 (Aug 25, 2006)

Liked it. 2nd best thing I've seen from NBC in a loooooong time. (Chicago Fire being 1st)


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

I really enjoyed it. James Spader best work since Tough Turf.

I thought I was well done and will provide an interesting basis for a procedural. In the vein of POI which has a bit more heft than the typical procedural.


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## brettatk (Oct 11, 2002)

I love James Spader. He alone is enough for me to keep the SP although I did enjoy it. Looking forward to what might come.


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## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

100% derivative of Silence of the Lambs (especially the first half), completely unbelievable and ridiculous situations straight across the board, and way too convenient resolutions. But a fun ride - and James Spader!!! We'll keep watching for a while


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

dwit said:


> Actually wasn't so bad. Pleasantly surprised.
> 
> Don't really pay much attention to new shows, etc., unless a Tivo ad catches my attention.
> 
> Thanks for the heads up.


So, what do you watch then? Rockford Files and Murder She Wrote?


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I liked it a lot, for a pilot. It moved fast and wasn't TOO ridiculous (as noted above, the fact that Red set the entire thing up ended up making it much more believable than it would have been otherwise, and solved some of the really terrible plot holes).

And I do like Spader.

BTW, someone above said that the husband getting mad was not believable: actually I thought he didn't get mad at all, as you'd expect from a TV show. His reaction seemed quite realistic to me, surprisingly so. He just wanted reassurance that she really wanted to go through with it, then he handled it himself without any complaints.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

bsnelson said:


> A lot of tropes, yes, but some good stuff.
> 
> I can't believe nobody's brought this up yet, but we've already been shown the key to some of Reddington's omniscience: He's behind the operative that was clearly placed to become her husband. That's where he got his info about her (my wife gets credit for noticing this).
> 
> ...


Do you mean "realizing" or "predicting" rather than "noticing" or did I miss clues in the show that revealed this?


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## bsnelson (Oct 30, 1999)

TAsunder said:


> Do you mean "realizing" or "predicting" rather than "noticing" or did I miss clues in the show that revealed this?


Yes, poor choice of words on my part; it's more "realizing" or "predicting", although, it's "obvious" to her. 

Brad


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## dwit (May 5, 2004)

markz said:


> So, what do you watch then? Rockford Files and Murder She Wrote?


I do seem watch most things when they go into rerun.


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## purwater (Aug 25, 2005)

My wife and I enjoyed it. Everything can't be as good as Breaking Bad and some nice action and spy fun is always a good time. I'll be shocked if Spader isn't the father more than any other plot they could come up with.


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## LlamaLarry (Apr 30, 2003)

It was an okay pilot, but not sure that Red proves his value by catching a bad guy he got into the country and plan he put into motion. 

Was the weird engraving on the top of her hubby's secret spy reveal kit based on Liz's scar?


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## milo99 (Oct 14, 2002)

i liked it enough to keep watching for now.

as for anything that hasn't been said, i'll say this- if Red is indeed her father, as it seems the show is dropping a ton of hints that he is, then they better "reveal" that within an episode or 2. Because if they wait to reveal something that is so obvious, it's going to be a total dud of a "twist". 

However, if that is all misdirection and he's not actually her dad, but like someone else suggested he put hubby up to spying on her, or had some other connection to her, then a later reveal is fine with me.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

milo99 said:


> if Red is indeed her father, as it seems the show is dropping a ton of hints that he is, then they better "reveal" that within an episode or 2. Because if they wait to reveal something that is so obvious, it's going to be a total dud of a "twist". However, if that is all misdirection and he's not actually her dad, but like someone else suggested he put hubby up to spying on her, or had some other connection to her, then a later reveal is fine with me.


This. If she is as smart as she seems to be, she should be determining his paternal status by episode 3.

I hope it gets a little more like "Person of Interest" than "The Silence of the Lambs" in the next episodes.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Turtleboy said:


> Quite a bit like Silence of the Lambs.


Yeah, I thought a lot of that plus a dash of 24.

The pilot seemed a bit rushed. They wanted to get a lot set up. Plus it was predictable. Still, I enjoyed it. It's a great role for Spader, and I like watching him. I think it has good potential.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

If I were making this show, I'd drop in little Silence of the Lambs references and jokes, like showing Spader eating fava beans or something.


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

hefe said:


> If I were making this show, I'd drop in little Silence of the Lambs references and jokes, like showing Spader eating fava beans or something.


He seemed to be enjoying a nice chianti at the hotel!


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

purwater said:


> My wife and I enjoyed it. Everything can't be as good as Breaking Bad and some nice action and spy fun is always a good time. I'll be shocked if Spader isn't the father more than any other plot they could come up with.


The first time she walked in to talk to him, he definitely had a "proud papa" expression on his face.

If he isn't her father, it's a good bit of misdirection.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

The one thing I don't think I've seen commented on is that Spader was clearly working with the bad guy, and his surrender and reveal of the kidnapping plot was a necessary part for the plot to succeed.

Had he not alerted the agents to that, they wouldn't have been carrying the girl across the bridge at that time, for the "chemical spill" to turn them around and set them up for everything that follows.

Spader is clearly playing both sides.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Ereth said:


> The one thing I don't think I've seen commented on is that Spader was clearly working with the bad guy, and his surrender and reveal of the kidnapping plot was a necessary part for the plot to succeed.
> 
> Had he not alerted the agents to that, they wouldn't have been carrying the girl across the bridge at that time, for the "chemical spill" to turn them around and set them up for everything that follows.
> 
> Spader is clearly playing both sides.


Not clear at all. While it is possible Red was working with Zamani, it is also possible (and perhaps more likely) that Red was manipulating Zamani, making him think he was working with him when Red was actually just using him as a tool to accomplish his goals and/or to defeat or kill Zamani.

And I'm not sure why you think Zamani could not have come up with another absurd plan that would never work (but actually does work) to kidnap the girl without her being in a convoy of FBI agents.


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## FrodoB (Jan 3, 2005)

Ereth said:


> The one thing I don't think I've seen commented on is that Spader was clearly working with the bad guy, and his surrender and reveal of the kidnapping plot was a necessary part for the plot to succeed.
> 
> Had he not alerted the agents to that, they wouldn't have been carrying the girl across the bridge at that time, for the "chemical spill" to turn them around and set them up for everything that follows.
> 
> Spader is clearly playing both sides.


I thought this as well. The only alternative to the "I know I'm sending you into a trap effect" I can see is that maybe the girl would have had a nanny pick her up and something similar happened, but several heavily armed men to take out one nanny seems unlikely.

However, I think the possibility that he was just manipulating Zamani is likely as well. I will say, though, that if he really was deep cover like was surmised earlier, he has an awfully callous regard towards the life of his fellow FBI agents. Heck, even if he's *not* deep cover and is just in it for simple revenge or something like that, he took quite the risk with his new "friend" Elizabeth....


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

john4200 said:


> Not clear at all. While it is possible Red was working with Zamani, it is also possible (and perhaps more likely) that Red was manipulating Zamani, making him think he was working with him when Red was actually just using him as a tool to accomplish his goals and/or to defeat or kill Zamani.


Yeah, I thought he was manipulating Zamani into being caught, without giving up his own rep as a bad guy.

He's spent all those years cultivating relationships with the worst of the worst, and now he will use that to destroy them. But he'll maintain his place in the world of evil as best as he can, in order to maintain his access.

That's how I see it playing out at this point, at least. We'll see where they're actually going with all this.


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, I thought he was manipulating Zamani into being caught, without giving up his own rep as a bad guy.
> .


Wouldn't that mean that Zamani had no clue the RFID tracker was in his pill bottle? Given that we saw him taking pills from it often that wouldn't be a great place to hide something you didn't want him to find.


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## aepman (Oct 3, 2000)

I had not planned on watching this show, but caught it anyway. It was ok. Definitely had characters that were way too on top of things. I'll probably watch it until at least mid season to see how it develops, but I don't really hold a lot of hope for this one.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

astrohip said:


> After 26 different cliches & tropes were rolled out before the first break, I said goodbye.


I'm going to file it along with Under the Dome and The Following. It seemed to be full of absurd villains and absurd law enforcement. How many times did the bad guy get away? How many times did he turn himself in? They really put him up in a Hotel? Really?

Any show that starts out with the bad guy's master plan being to be caught on purpose (Hello Joker, Hello Loki, Hello guy-whose-name-I-forgot from the last Bond movie) is dubious at best.

I expect it'll turn into one of those shows full of constant griping and constant "I'm going to delete my season pass" threats here on TCF.

I also expect I'm going to love it despite all this, just like I did with UTD and TF.



Rob Helmerichs said:


> He's spent all those years cultivating relationships with the worst of the worst, and now he will use that to destroy them. But he'll maintain his place in the world of evil as best as he can, in order to maintain his access.


Sounds like Arvin Sloane in S3 Alias.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> Quite a bit like Silence of the Lambs.


Yup.

A little Clarice Starling thing going on there.



scooterboy said:


> Cliches or not, we enjoyed it.


Yup. I enjoyed the Pilot.


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## Johnny Dancing (Sep 3, 2000)

So far the Blacklist seems like a good show. VERY good chance it will go downhill fast and turn into another 24, Prison Break, Revolution, The Following, or Alias though. Fingers crossed. 

Love Spader and his transformation from smarmy rich kid (Pretty in Pink, Less Than Zero) to Creepy guy (sex, lies, ang video tape) to willing victim (Bad Influence) to to geeky nerd (Stargate) to badass in this show. 

He really has some range and has carved out a great career after I thought he was a one note brat pack character actor during his early work.

Last week I was at a hotel and Pretty and Pink was playing VH1, I remember when I first watched him in this movie I really hated his character, this time he put a smile on my face.


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## Wheens (Jan 1, 2003)

Johnny Dancing said:


> Love Spader and his transformation from smarmy rich kid (Pretty in Pink, Less Than Zero) to Creepy guy (sex, lies, ang video tape) to willing victim (Bad Influence) to to geeky nerd (Stargate) to badass in this show.
> 
> He really has some range and has carved out a great career after I thought he was a one note brat pack character actor during his early work.


2 Words: Denny Crane!


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Wheens said:


> 2 Words: Denny Crane!


Yeah, all that and no mention of Alan Shore...


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

LlamaLarry said:


> It was an okay pilot, but not sure that Red proves his value by catching a bad guy he got into the country and plan he put into motion.
> 
> *Was the weird engraving on the top of her hubby's secret spy reveal kit based on Liz's scar?*


Yes, it was based on her scar. I would venture that the mark on her is not a scar at all, in the conventional sense, but a brand that was deliberately placed on her for identification.


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## LlamaLarry (Apr 30, 2003)

Church AV Guy said:


> Yes, it was based on her scar. I would venture that the mark on her is not a scar at all, in the conventional sense, but a brand that was deliberately placed on her for identification.


I agree, definitely something done on purpose rather than accidentally via a fire.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)




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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

It was weird when she opened the box. She rubbed the engraving as if it meant something to her. Like the way she would rub her scar. But when she opened the box, she was obviously very surprised by the contents of the box.

So, what's going on? HER box, but not with her stuff in it? Don't quite understand.


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

I hope this is not a Drink Your Ovaltine ruse!


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

jsmeeker said:


> It was weird when she opened the box. She rubbed the engraving as if it meant something to her. Like the way she would rub her scar. But when she opened the box, she was obviously very surprised by the contents of the box.
> 
> So, what's going on? HER box, but not with her stuff in it? Don't quite understand.


Not her box, but she did appear to recognize the symbol on it. It's a puzzler.


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## milo99 (Oct 14, 2002)

i totally didn't catch the scar being the same shape as the box engraving! this is why i love these threads. 

so then, why did Red have Zamani go and torture the hubby? that part still doesn't make sense. Maybe the hubby was part of an evil group that was somehow keeping tabs on her after branding her, and Red wanted to get to the hubby to "free" her or something...

the thought occurred to me that the box would have been planted by Zamani to frame the hubby, but that seemed like too much of a hiding place if he wanted her to find it.


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

I think the hubby is another spy, and Red knew about it. That's why he sent Zamani to the house, to plant a seed of doubt in Lizzy.


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

I really liked it, and from the promos I didn't think I would. That character was made for Spader, he kills it.


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## milo99 (Oct 14, 2002)

TIVO_GUY_HERE said:


> I really liked it, and from the promos I didn't think I would. That character was made for Spader, he kills it.


i kind of agree. i didn't care for Spader until i saw him in Boston Legal (although i hated David E Kelley constantly putting his character on his personal soap box) and loved how he played that character. in seeing the previews for this, i instantly thought he could be really good in that role, and so far, it's looking like he is. I hope it continues.


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## Jayjoans (Jan 23, 2003)

Spader can pull off a hat. Not everybody can wear a hat. So there's that.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

john4200 said:


> Not clear at all. While it is possible Red was working with Zamani, it is also possible (and perhaps more likely) that Red was manipulating Zamani, making him think he was working with him when Red was actually just using him as a tool to accomplish his goals and/or to defeat or kill Zamani.
> 
> And I'm not sure why you think Zamani could not have come up with another absurd plan that would never work (but actually does work) to kidnap the girl without her being in a convoy of FBI agents.


Timing is everything. Without sending the FBI to go get the girl, the trucks won't be on that bridge at that time, and the attack won't be able to jump off the bridge to land on the boats to get away.

If Spader had said nothing to the FBI at all, then the plan we saw would never have happened. And you don't set something like that up in just a few minutes. From the time the FBI went to get the girl to the time the attack was over there wasn't time to set that up. It had to be planned before the FBI even knew to go get the girl.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Cearbhaill said:


> In for Spader.
> 
> The car crash was particularly annoying because we just saw it last week on another show, but all in all I enjoyed it.


We've seen this kind of thing before, but this one REALLY got to me. I mean, I remember cringing and jumping, right before it happened. (Heck, it's even happened in TV *commercials*, right?)

I'm not exactly sure what they did differently, but somehow it got to me, in a good way.

I don't quite know how they're going to keep this show up, but it was fairly entertaining. There did seem to be one very weird cut/scene transition, near the middle. I seem to remember you see either Spader's character, or the female, walking towards an elevator, then it just jumps to an outside scene. I went back to confirm it wasn't an actual glitch in the recording, and it didn't seem to be.

Also, when Spader's character puts his hat on the kids, NONE of them really react. Yeah, some stranger puts a hat on me, and I'm just going to keep walking? Even if they couldn't audibly react (would have to pay them more than extras, I think), seems like they could turn and make a "What the hell?" kind of face.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

..and we know she's going to hide her hand most of the time, right? So they don't have to do the expensive makeup for the scar over and over? Just like making the guy on "Prison Break" wear heavy shirts all the time.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I bet they have a slap-on scar for every day use, and save the expensive makeup for special occasions (i.e., close-ups).


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

A lot of tropes and incredible scenarios, but something about it really hooked us.



bsnelson said:


> I can't believe nobody's brought this up yet, but we've already been shown the key to some of Reddington's omniscience: He's behind the operative that was clearly placed to become her husband. That's where he got his info about her (my wife gets credit for noticing this).


That might be true too, but I think Spader's been watching her for years because he's Daddy. And I can't believe she hasn't followed up on him knowing so much about her and her being abandoned.



Ereth said:


> The one thing I don't think I've seen commented on is that Spader was clearly working with the bad guy, and his surrender and reveal of the kidnapping plot was a necessary part for the plot to succeed.
> 
> Had he not alerted the agents to that, they wouldn't have been carrying the girl across the bridge at that time, for the "chemical spill" to turn them around and set them up for everything that follows.


How did _that_ conversation go? _"OK, how about this. Instead of an easy snatch of an unprotected girl, I'll tip off the FBI, so you can have a really complicated plan and a dangerous shoot out with the Feds. Also, I'll make sure my new friend is there so she might get killed."_



Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, I thought he was manipulating Zamani into being caught, without giving up his own rep as a bad guy.


This. He has to keep his rep so he can work his contacts and know who's where. (He's not really omniscient.) Of course this will continue to make things much more complicated than giving them a list of bad guys and last known locations.



Idearat said:


> Wouldn't that mean that Zamani had no clue the RFID tracker was in his pill bottle? Given that we saw him taking pills from it often that wouldn't be a great place to hide something you didn't want him to find.


Well, we do know that Z was dying, so that may tie into him knowingly carrying it. (I don't buy it, but it could.)


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## milo99 (Oct 14, 2002)

Ereth said:


> Timing is everything. Without sending the FBI to go get the girl, the trucks won't be on that bridge at that time, and the attack won't be able to jump off the bridge to land on the boats to get away.
> 
> If Spader had said nothing to the FBI at all, then the plan we saw would never have happened. And you don't set something like that up in just a few minutes. From the time the FBI went to get the girl to the time the attack was over there wasn't time to set that up. It had to be planned before the FBI even knew to go get the girl.


you're forgetting a conversation they had - REd and Zamani - where Zamani said something about improvising and changing the plan to get the girl due to the FBI getting in the way, but it went ok. i don't remember exactly, but as i was debating whether or not Red was setting up the FBI for that road attack, they had that dialogue, which made me think that the road attack was NOT the original plan.

i too thought that the "alternate" plan was way to elaborate for an audible, which was one of my peeves with the show.


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## rifleman69 (Jan 6, 2005)

I'll give it another episode or two but found it moving way too fast as well as being way too convenient for many of the plot points to run in succession.


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## jilter (Oct 4, 2002)

Husband hated it. I like it.
Much of it was implausible, I think that is what ruined it for the husband.
No doubt Spader is great. I had to look twice to see it was him. Maybe he will force the writers to tighten things up since it is the role of a lifetime.


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## jilter (Oct 4, 2002)

BTW, Can someone please explain to me what is meant by the word, "tropes" in this thread.
I looked it up, but examples would be helpful.
I only know from tropes in synagogue <grin>.
Thanks!


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

jilter said:


> BTW, Can someone please explain to me what is meant by the word, "tropes" in this thread. I looked it up, but examples would be helpful. I only know from tropes in synagogue <grin>. Thanks!


Http://tvtropes.org


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

milo99 said:


> so then, why did Red have Zamani go and torture the hubby?


My thought: Red had the husband stabbed _just so Elizabeth would tear up the carpet_.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

jilter said:


> BTW, Can someone please explain to me what is meant by the word, "tropes" in this thread.


Most overused word on TCF in the last two weeks


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## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

Loved it, and Spader was excellent.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

cherry ghost said:


> Most overused word on TCF in the last two weeks


So, you are saying that using the word trope is a trope of TCF recently?


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Skinny Pete (Breaking Bad) sighting!









Greg


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## dtivouser (Feb 10, 2004)

Best new show of the season! Can't wait for more. Every scene with James Spader was compelling (like, if the Tivo 30-second skip went to far, I HAD to back it up, normally would just roll with it).


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

I'm in for the run.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

just finished all this week's premieres, and this is the only show not paused - i actually liked it! that was a pleasant surprise (hostages only made it a few minutes before the sp bit the dust).

even though i agree with all the speed, trope, cliché, dad, and husband comments, spader held my attention, and i still found it entertaining, much more than the revolution se2 premiere. we'll see how it goes - looks like i'm in for at least a few more weeks.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

I thought it was hilarious that we just had a thread that discussed the TV bomb trope and the bomb at the end of this episode played out all the elements of that trope.

Big digital counter - check
3 minutes to go - check
Cut a wire and it speeds up - check
Cut another wire and stop with 10 seconds left - check


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## milo99 (Oct 14, 2002)

gchance said:


> Skinny Pete (Breaking Bad) sighting!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


skinny pete? i thought that was the big Samoan dude in The Italian Job...


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

milo99 said:


> skinny pete? i thought that was the big Samoan dude in The Italian Job...


Obviously that's the origin of his name. 

Greg


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

I really enjoyed this pilot.  

The only thing I have seen James Spader in was Boston Legal, but I liked his character a lot in that. I was surprised when Megan Boone disappeared from Blue Bloods last season, but I guess now we know where she went.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

morac said:


> Http://tvtropes.org


You have now probably caused several people who have never seen that site to waste hours upon hours. (That's one of the sites, along with wikipedia of course when one first learns of it, that causes lots of "lost time".)


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

Isn't getting a pen in the carotid artery kind of a bad thing?


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

IndyJones1023 said:


> Isn't getting a pen in the carotid artery kind of a bad thing?


Yup, worse than an icepick to the jugular, I'd say. 

Probably better than a deep knife slice across the carotid, though.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

He seemed to be doing pretty good less than a day later though!


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

I had hopes for this one what with James Spader starring in it and all, but I found this to be very cliched and predictable. A lot of we've seen this before in much better form. 

I'm not sure how long I'll keep the SP, but for now I'll record it but it's not a must watch as soon as possible type show for me.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

IndyJones1023 said:


> Isn't getting a pen in the carotid artery kind of a bad thing?





john4200 said:


> Yup, worse than an icepick to the jugular, I'd say.
> 
> Probably better than a deep knife slice across the carotid, though.





laria said:


> He seemed to be doing pretty good less than a day later though!


IANAD but I had a problem with that whole thing.


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## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

My wife and I loved it. My wife was on the edge of her seat for a few scenes. Part of it is we love James Spader, but the story and characters some how gel'd together jsut right and it really kept our interest from beginning to the end. She commented that this show could be end up being a "great" new series. I agreed.

We watched the Pilot and episode 2 last night so she was pretty pumped to see both back to back.

Thumbs up to what (for us) may be the only new show this season we are going to be glued to each week.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

IndyJones1023 said:


> Isn't getting a pen in the carotid artery kind of a bad thing?


It's even worse if you take it out.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

busyba said:


> It's even worse if you take it out.


Nah, just slap a Band-Aid on it, you'll be fine.


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

morac said:


> Nah, just slap a Band-Aid on it, you'll be fine.


Apparently.


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

Bump.



sushikitten said:


> Well dang. I came here hoping it would be a landslide one way or the other, but it seems fairly evenly split. Now I guess I'll have to watch and decide on my own.


I decided against it back then...then happened across the Pilot last night (don't ask why live TV was on--I never have it on) and got sucked in.

It is cliched but it's fun and takes my mind off things. Now to acquire old eps.


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