# Update to Netflix??



## DVReveler (May 8, 2004)

TiVo Margret Schmidt (@tivodesign)
12/9/13, 3:04 PM
#TiVo Premiere customers who love #Netflix - today is a good day to get on the list for the next update: tivo.com/priority

Download the official Twitter app here


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Sounds like Premiere users might be getting the new HTML5 Netflix app like the Roamio.

I'm glad to see the Premiere isn't getting left in the dust in favor of the Roamio.


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## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

Dan203 said:


> Sounds like Premiere users might be getting the new HTML5 Netflix app like the Roamio.
> 
> I'm glad to see the Premiere isn't getting left in the dust in favor of the Roamio.


I was actually stunned that HTML5 support came to the Premieres. I think we have the cable partners to thank for that. It's also the reason next year the Premieres' will get the new Roamio look and feel.

And it's understandable why TiVo would want to devote most of its resources to the new platform. That's exactly what other companies do when they release a new model.


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## DVReveler (May 8, 2004)

CloudAtlas said:


> And it's understandable why TiVo would want to devote most of its resources to the new platform. That's exactly what other companies do when they release a new model.


What other companies are you referring to? Do these other companies also charge a monthly fee to use their products? I think because TiVo is a service they are obligated to continue to support their older boxes. And they don't do a very good job of it in my opinion.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

DVReveler said:


> I think because TiVo is a service they are obligated to continue to support their older boxes.


I agree they are obligated to continue to support their older boxes so that they stay operational, but that does not mean they are obligated to keep updating the boxes to support additional features.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

DVReveler said:


> What other companies are you referring to? Do these other companies also charge a monthly fee to use their products? I think because TiVo is a service they are obligated to continue to support their older boxes. And they don't do a very good job of it in my opinion.


Smart phones, which you pay a monthly service fee for, frequently do not get the latest updates. This is true across all OS's. Can also be true of tablets.

Of course, you can argue that you're paying the service fee to a different company than the one that made the hardware, but that doesn't actually change anything about the discussion, because you buy the hardware from the company that sells the service, so the obligation is still the same.

If you have an Xbox 360, you aren't getting some of the online features of the One, despite paying for Xbox Live. Same with PS+.

Part of why it's difficult to find many examples is most companies just flat out phase out the old hardware when the new hardware comes out, so you can't actually compare the two. And there aren't a lot of subscription hardware industries left anymore.


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## NJ_HB (Mar 21, 2007)

I don't have a Roamio, what is HTML5?


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## Sashieden (Jun 10, 2011)

HTML5 is basically talking about embeded video in browsers but apps are starting to use it instead of Java which helps keep things more uniform between different platforms.


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## NJ_HB (Mar 21, 2007)

Sashieden said:


> HTML5 is basically talking about embeded video in browsers but apps are starting to use it instead of Java which helps keep things more uniform between different platforms.


A little over my head but at least now I am in the loop. Thanks.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The old apps were based on AdobeAir, which was basically a version of Flash for devices. A few devices used it, like smart TVs, BluRay players, etc... but each had minor differences so companies like Netflix had to maintain different versions of the app for each device.

HTML5 is a web standard that will run in any HTML5 compatible browser. So the device makers themselves can maintain the HTML5 compatible browser and any HTML5 based app will run. This makes it much easier for the service providers to supply apps because they only have to write one HTML5 compatible app and they can deploy it to all devices with an HTML5 compatible browser. No need to maintain special versions for every device. This means that more niche devices, like TiVo, will get support from services which may not have seen them as worth the effort to develop/maintain a custom AdobeAir app for.

By adding HTML5 support to the Premiere units they've opened up the platform to a LOT more services. We already know that the Opera app store is coming, which is a little app market full of HTML5 apps. (although most pretty obscure) But it'll also open up the possibility for top tier services like Amazon Prime Streaming, HBOGo, VUDU, etc... as most of those services are converting to HTML5 based apps for easier maintenance.


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

Anyone get the update yet?


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> The old apps were based on AdobeAir, which was basically a version of Flash for devices. A few devices used it, like smart TVs, BluRay players, etc... but each had minor differences so companies like Netflix had to maintain different versions of the app for each device.
> 
> HTML5 is a web standard that will run in any HTML5 compatible browser. So the device makers themselves can maintain the HTML5 compatible browser and any HTML5 based app will run. This makes it much easier for the service providers to supply apps because they only have to write one HTML5 compatible app and they can deploy it to all devices with an HTML5 compatible browser. No need to maintain special versions for every device. This means that more niche devices, like TiVo, will get support from services which may not have seen them as worth the effort to develop/maintain a custom AdobeAir app for.
> 
> By adding HTML5 support to the Premiere units they've opened up the platform to a LOT more services. We already know that the Opera app store is coming, which is a little app market full of HTML5 apps. (although most pretty obscure) But it'll also open up the possibility for top tier services like Amazon Prime Streaming, HBOGo, VUDU, etc... as most of those services are converting to HTML5 based apps for easier maintenance.


So, what you're saying is that the TiVo interface is a stand alone web browser that can run HTML5?


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Johncv said:


> So, what you're saying is that the TiVo interface is a stand alone web browser that can run HTML5?


 Not quite. TiVo interface now has ability to run internal Opera browser which in turn supports html5.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Yeah the UI itself is still Adobe Air. That's unlikely to change as TiVo has invested a LOT into the development of the HDUI.


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## hairyblue (Feb 25, 2002)

I put my 2 Tivos on the list. I prefer to watch netflix on my Tivo but it's been hanging and studdering lately so I have to watch it on my playstation.


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## dboff01 (Feb 5, 2012)

I received the FW update last night but have had a C133 error since the reboot.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

too little too late for me - I'm already running my Premiere through my Xbox One and I'll be using my X1's Netflix for sure.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

My system seemed like it rebooted - on 20.3.8-01-2-748

Is that new? Netflix looks the same.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

The new Netflix app will be pushed next week, per Margret on Twitter.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/411585059351576576


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

ah thank you.


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## TiVoMargret (Feb 3, 2008)

Ok, I believe if you already have 20.3.8 installed on your Premiere, and you connect to the TiVo Service a couple of times, then the next time you launch Netflix you will get the new experience.

If you don't have 20.3.8 yet, you can still sign up at tivo.com/priority, but you might not get the update until January.

--Margret


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

TiVoMargret said:


> Ok, I believe if you already have 20.3.8 installed on your Premiere, and you connect to the TiVo Service a couple of times, then the next time you launch Netflix you will get the new experience.
> 
> If you don't have 20.3.8 yet, you can still sign up at tivo.com/priority, but you might not get the update until January.
> 
> --Margret


Yes, the new HTML5 Netflix UI just launched on my Premieres this morning.


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## ydc (Nov 18, 2002)

CoxInPHX said:


> Yes, the new HTML5 Netflix UI just launched on my Premieres this morning.


It is on mine this morning as well! I'm still mostly using my TiVoHD these days and the NetFlix client that comes with it, so can't compare it really to the previous client on the Premiere. I would have like to have seen profile support on it, but otherwise it seems OK so far. Will take some more time to see whether I like it better than the TiVoHD version enough to switch to it.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

TiVoMargret said:


> Ok, I believe if you already have 20.3.8 installed on your Premiere, and you connect to the TiVo Service a couple of times, then the next time you launch Netflix you will get the new experience.
> 
> If you don't have 20.3.8 yet, you can still sign up at tivo.com/priority, but you might not get the update until January.
> 
> --Margret





CoxInPHX said:


> Yes, the new HTML5 Netflix UI just launched on my Premieres this morning.


I just checked out the new interface, and I like it. More importantly, it's snappier, and as soon as I started to watch a show, I got 1080p/24 !!!

So far, so good. IMO, definitely a huge improvement.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

Dan203 said:


> Sounds like Premiere users might be getting the new HTML5 Netflix app like the Roamio.
> 
> I'm glad to see the Premiere isn't getting left in the dust in favor of the Roamio.


:up:


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## Walter Lambert (Jul 7, 2000)

Received the new Netflix app this morning on my Premiere Elite. Big, Big, Big improvement! Thank you.


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## shamilian (Mar 27, 2003)

Like the roamio version - 

no profiles yet....

Still no ability to change zoom/full/panel mode from within the app.
(zoom button seems to be exit button)

seems to navigate well (much faster) and no problems streaming...


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## TiVoMargret (Feb 3, 2008)

shamilian said:


> Like the roamio version -
> 
> no profiles yet....


With any luck, Profiles will come to the Roamio, Mini, and Premiere versions this week. (Fingers crossed.)

--Margret


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## jgametest (Oct 31, 2013)

That was weird. My kids are watching "Curious George" in the category of KIDS and after 3 videos. Netflix paused and faded with a question..

Are you still there? YES Continue or NO.

Ok.. I click YES and the video continues.

Sounds like we are getting away from the endless video playback to eliminate are you still watching or did you walk away. Does this have to do with inaccurate data being collected by Nelson Ratings based on BINGE watching. Uh oh you mean some are not watching non-stop just forgot to hit TIVO to go back or went on to do an errand?


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## shamilian (Mar 27, 2003)

TiVoMargret said:


> With any luck, Profiles will come to the Roamio, Mini, and Premiere versions this week. (Fingers crossed.)
> 
> --Margret


My Christmas wishes are coming true.


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## xander777 (Feb 23, 2010)

Now that I have the new app, I have no idea how to get from watching a movie back to the menu. What key is it?


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## dave13077 (Jan 11, 2009)

xander777 said:


> Now that I have the new app, I have no idea how to get from watching a movie back to the menu. What key is it?


Try Arrow UP.


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## NotVeryWitty (Oct 3, 2003)

xander777 said:


> Now that I have the new app, I have no idea how to get from watching a movie back to the menu. What key is it?


Same here. Also unclear is how to quickly get back to the start of the movie -- I wanted to watch a movie that my son had previously watched, and the only option was "Resume". It took me to the closing credits, which were not very interesting.

Expanding on all this, it's unclear what buttons on the Tivo peanut remote do anything inside the Netflix app. Would be great to get a help page on tivo.com that describes usage of the Tivo remote with Netflix. (Hey Margret, hint, hint... )


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

On the Roamio, the new remote has a dedicated "Back" button. For Premiere's, I believe someone mentioned previously that the colored "B" button performs "back". 

The lack of a quick method to play from beginning is a global change to all Netflix apps. Only Netflix can answer why that option was removed.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

dave13077 said:


> Try Arrow UP.


this still amazes me. The button integration is ridiculous. Up? Why not Left?


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## xander777 (Feb 23, 2010)

dave13077 said:


> Try Arrow UP.


Thanks. That works. The B button didn't do anything.

Also, has anyone tried casting to the Tivo from their Netflix app?
It starts Netfilx but times out because it takes too long to load because it asks me every time if I want Netflix or Kids.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

tatergator1 said:


> On the Roamio, the new remote has a dedicated "Back" button. For Premiere's, I believe someone mentioned previously that the colored "B" button performs "back".


I believe "Zoom" will also work (needed on older remotes).


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

TiVoMargret said:


> Ok, I believe if you already have 20.3.8 installed on your Premiere, and you connect to the TiVo Service a couple of times, then the next time you launch Netflix you will get the new experience.
> 
> If you don't have 20.3.8 yet, you can still sign up at tivo.com/priority, but you might not get the update until January.
> 
> --Margret


Margret, I sign up, but never did receive the update. 

The update came yesterday.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

TiVoMargret said:


> Ok, I believe if you already have 20.3.8 installed on your Premiere, and you connect to the TiVo Service a couple of times, then the next time you launch Netflix you will get the new experience.


I got the 20.3.8 update this morning, and connected a bunch of times (and rebooted a few) without getting the new Netflix. I was most curious as to how well it runs on Premiere, since I have it on my Roamio.


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## Durfman (Nov 19, 2001)

I don't have a Roamio, but the Premiere version is much better. It still launches really slow, but once it comes up, it's fine. Visually, it's quite nice. I only wish it had profile support. My profile is all polluted with my husbands shows and it's really annoying. Currently it asks if you want Netflix or Kids, which is annoying because I don't have any profile set to kids and I don't want it to ask me.


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## jgametest (Oct 31, 2013)

One of my Twitter followers gave this to me today.

http://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-360/apps/netflix-kids
This is a step by step guide now to use the new Netflix HTML.
Not sure if the colors are the same as we have but it's a step in the right direction.

Also we have been hinted the profiles should be returning to the updated release soon.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

Durfman said:


> I don't have a Roamio, but the Premiere version is much better. It still launches really slow, but once it comes up, it's fine. Visually, it's quite nice. I only wish it had profile support. My profile is all polluted with my husbands shows and it's really annoying. Currently it asks if you want Netflix or Kids, which is annoying because I don't have any profile set to kids and I don't want it to ask me.


The player on the Roamio looks like this:



Spoiler












Is that what you're seeing on your Premiere?

After you've chosen the same thing several times it stops asking you if you want Netflix kids. "Several" may be quite a few .


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

Just connected a few more times, still got the Flash version. Oh well--I'll live.


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## hairyblue (Feb 25, 2002)

I like the new version of netflix. Looks nicer and so far it running great. Still pokey but what do you expect with the processor/memory of the Premiere? I'm happy with it


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

mikeyts said:


> Just connected a few more times, still got the Flash version. Oh well--I'll live.


 kmttg version v1p0k can launch html version of Netflix for series 4 & 5 units if you really want it right away.


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## defond (Dec 14, 2004)

I didn't not sign up on the priority page, and my bedroom premiere got the new netflix update, the living room is still a no go as of now.

I have to say that I like the new netflix more. It's much faster and more fluid.


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## contsole (Apr 5, 2010)

Mine came yesterday. First pass, looks good. It's a cross between the good things of Tivo - back up 7 seconds and skip ahead 30 seconds- and the good part of using a PC for Netflix - "next episode in 9 seconds." So far, I like it.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

Again, is the new app on the Premiere this version?



Spoiler


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## dboff01 (Feb 5, 2012)

mikeyts said:


> Again, is the new app on the Premiere this version?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Yes, just like that. Same as new Roku 3 update. All the same crummy limitations, with the added benefit it's slower than the Roku 3.


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## Durfman (Nov 19, 2001)

Yes, that is what the new version looks like on the Premiere.


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## spaldingclan (Aug 22, 2012)

how are you guys seeing this? I've got the update


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

mikeyts said:


> Again, is the new app on the Premiere this version?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


It like this on the Playstion 3, and run fast. Can someone explain how Netflex can display scenes from every show/movie you click on?


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

Johncv said:


> It like this on the Playstion 3, and run fast. Can someone explain how Netflex can display scenes from every show/movie you click on?


They already have the whole show or movie on file, in multiple formats and bitrates for multiple devices. It isn't much more work to add a collection of still images from the program to the rest of the meta-data they store for every piece of content they offer. Then they just send down the correct image when you browse to some specific piece of content the same way they'd send down the description text.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

I've been gifted with the new Netflix UI on both Premiere & Roamio.

They both still reboot with the slightest hiccup in the network connectivity (the whole TiVo reboots, interrupting recordings and everything).

Every other device I own that does Netflix can keep right on streaming, or at the worst, gives an error, and can recover.

Until I don't have to suffer "TiVo may reboot and clip and/or interrupt recordings, just because I feel like watching Netflix anxiety syndrome", it doesn't matter how "cool" any Netflix on TiVo implementation looks or performs. I'll likely be watching Netflix on anything except a TiVo, until TiVo is just a footnote in a history book, or Netflix is (or they both are).

Three generations of TiVo, have all done this. I _almost_ long for the days when the worst-case-scenario was the TiVo "locked up", but continued recording and would record future recordings, until I could pull the power cord at a convenient time, when I'd know nothing was recording, or about to record, and then I could have control of the TiVo & UI back.

Roku 2XS and WD TV Live devices are my Netflix devices of choice. I have no (zero) confidence that even if TiVo fixes this long-running issue in a future release, that it won't be broken with a release in the future, after that.


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

I got the updated Netflix and profiles are working for me.


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## dboff01 (Feb 5, 2012)

poppagene said:


> I got the updated Netflix and profiles are working for me.


After entering and exiting the app a few times, the profiles are now functional.

Initially I was only being offered entry into 'Netflix' or 'Kids', not my specific profiles.

I've edited my previous comment.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

nooneuknow said:


> They both still reboot with the slightest hiccup in the network connectivity (the whole TiVo reboots, interrupting recordings and everything).


 Then my network connection must be rock solid as I still haven't had any Netflix induced reboots after marathon sessions using Netflix last few days. Viewing Netflix on my Roamio Pro has been fantastic for me so far - responsive, reliable and great picture. Does simulating a network loss pulling ethernet while viewing Netflix cause a reboot? I'm willing to try it out at a time when TiVo is not recording anything to see what happens.
BTW what kind of networking are you using on the LAN for your TiVos? (Mine is listed in my sig).


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

dboff01 said:


> Yes, just like that.


Thank you.

I must have connected 20 times and rebooted 4 or 5 and it will not give me this version. Lord only knows what the mechanism is for getting it. Does TiVo's server have to decide to download some necessary component during a connection? Does Netflix then have to decide that you're worthy?

Oh, well--I just want to play with it on Premiere; I have the UI on 4 other devices, Roku 3, PS3, Xbox 360 and TiVo Roamio and I'm not even actually using the Premiere. It's not nearly important enough to me to install and learn to use something as elaborate as kmttg, which I have absolutely no other use for.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

moyekj said:


> Then my network connection must be rock solid as I still haven't had any Netflix induced reboots after marathon sessions using Netflix last few days. Viewing Netflix on my Roamio Pro has been fantastic for me so far - responsive, reliable and great picture. Does simulating a network loss pulling ethernet while viewing Netflix cause a reboot? I'm willing to try it out at a time when TiVo is not recording anything to see what happens.
> BTW what kind of networking are you using on the LAN for your TiVos?


By "network connectivity", I meant all the way back to the Netflix servers, not just local.

Pulling the network cable might occasionally cause a reboot, but it's more like having too long of a pause in response time, when I mean "any little hiccup", which includes issues with TiVo's servers, and their "sandboxing" role.

My LAN is 100% Cat5e, all gigabit equipment and switches, except the TiVos themselves. I replace cables and components quite frequently (not that I need to, I just do).

I have a 5.0Ghz and 2.4Ghz capable router. It's a Netgear WNDR3800. I have the 5GHz turned-off, and the 2.4GHz is only on for when my laptops aren't next to a jack/cable, and for a couple Chromecasts I bought, but haven't found much use for.

My internet is run through a DOCSIS 3.0 CM, and gets 84/42 Mbps peak, and 52/12 Mbps continuous, all day long. The speed I'm supposed to get as maximum continuous, without "powerboost" is 50/10 Mbps, subject to load, time of day, and the usual disclaimers.

I'm the only house on the whole 4-port Cox RF network tap, with new RG11 for my main lateral, and the old RG6 lateral still available (yes, I get away with having a dual lateral, because only two residences even have an underground PVC run to the sidewalk). I sometimes swap the laterals around when troubleshooting.

The next, larger, lateral run under the street to the main RF backbone was replaced 2 years ago, due to signal reverse-tilt.

*EDIT/ADD:* As you might have guessed, I keep VERY close tabs on my TRUE dBmV signal levels and TRUE SNR, as best a person who has everything short of a 1Ghz full-spectrum signal analyzer possibly can, adjusting the balance and levels to keep everything optimal, and reboot my CM, Router, & switches at least once a month, even if I have no reason to. I often let the Cox techs use my tools, since some of them are lesser-equipped than I am.

I also have a spool of Cox-supplied (fell off a truck) RG6 "Brightwire", their current style connectors, about 30 pounds worth of 1Ghz splitters of all varieties, and all the tools to make my own cables. I don't use any of the coax that came with the house.

I think that about covers my network, and then some.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

I was just curious if it was ethernet vs MoCA or wireless, not all the nitty gritty details. I'd say you answered my question, and then some.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

BTW, I did just try experiment of watching a Netflix title and pulling ethernet. Title continued playing for about 12 seconds or so (that's how much buffer was built up) and then I got a nice graceful OK dialog box with message:

"We're having trouble playing this title right now. Please try again later or select a different title".

After a minute or so I plugged ethernet back in and OK'd the dialog box and was taken back to Netflix menu with option to resume playing which I did and then things continued on normally. i.e. Elegant handling of the problem and was not even booted out of Netflix.

So while not a conclusive experiment it does show that TiVo Netflix App is not completely intolerant of network outages. Perhaps it's other kinds of network issues that cause problems but it also could mean reboot problems may not be related to networking at all... Since TiVo actually tried addressing some HDMI issues (I think 1080p/24 related issues) recently I would probably be more suspicious of that at this point.

EDIT: Just for clarify, this was using the new/latest Netflix App on a Roamio Pro. I hesitate to call it Netflix html App since there is some evidence to suggest it may not be that, or if it is it's not running via built in TiVo Opera browser as YouTube is doing.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

moyekj said:


> I was just curious if it was ethernet vs MoCA or wireless, not all the nitty gritty details. I'd say you answered my question, and then some.


I appreciate the effort to help. I just want to emphasize that it seems like it's like the TiVo implementation reboots on the slightest/smallest of issue(s) that other lower-powered players would just plow through without you even noticing said issue(s). The hugest of problems are handled gracefully, as you said (most of the time, anyway).

In the TiVo HD days, you could make one either lock-up, or reboot, by pulling the network cable. It used to be the former, then some updating produced the latter (and I preferred the former, at that time). I can't say the current state of the HD, since I sold mine.

I only have one Premiere left, for comparison(s), and it'll be on it's way to its new home soon. Then I'll just have Roamios.


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## bbrown9 (Mar 12, 2011)

nooneuknow said:


> By "network connectivity", I meant all the way back to the Netflix servers, not just local.
> 
> Pulling the network cable might occasionally cause a reboot, but it's more like having too long of a pause in response time, when I mean "any little hiccup", which includes issues with TiVo's servers, and their "sandboxing" role.


How do you know that the reboots are caused by such a hiccup? What proof do you have?


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

bbrown9 said:


> How do you know that the reboots are caused by such a hiccup? What proof do you have?


My personal experience, and that of many others, posted all over these forums, other forums, TiVo's forums, and Netflix related forums, that are talking about Netflix on TiVo.

I could write it all up, but it's pretty much out there already. If I cross-post too much, it makes some people on here quite angry/annoyed.

A quick way is to have one device next to another (TiVo and cheap Blu-ray Disc player), doing the same thing (Netflix), with an adjustable attenuator to the cable modem, providing a means to induce a small issue. Start reducing the signal and/or increasing the noise, and watch the TiVo reboot, while the BD player playing back the same program just stutters, or doesn't even become affected, because at that point, you've only introduced the slightest of problems. Repeat this test with every device you have that can stream Netflix, next to a TiVo streaming Netflix, and see similar, if not identical, results.

I could publish books on how many ways there are to show how sensitive Netflix playback on TiVo is to the smallest of issues with the network. The example above is just the tip of an iceberg, and not meant as "all my proof".

Would you like me to start calling in witnesses, and notaries to verify signed statements of accounts, as well?

Maybe I'm overreacting, but "What proof do you have?" feels insulting to me, given how much I've witnessed. How can anybody literally prove any experience they have, on here, short of a video? Oh wait, how can I prove the video isn't faked?

Sometimes proof of something is what you don't have proof of.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

Well, I give up on trying to get the new player on the Premiere. If it requires some component to be downloaded from TiVo, the servers that I get connected to don't seem to be provisioned with it. No big--I just wanted to play with it.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

Does the new Netflix perform as poorly on Premiere as the HTML5 YouTube? That is _stunningly_ slow, more or less unusable.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

BTW, in the new Netflix player you should be able to see this...



Spoiler












...stream info display while playing any title by pressing INFO.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

And there is a weird bug where pressing Info again makes it go away except the last line. I have to press it over and over and eventually it'll go away, maybe. Use to be pressing it twice did the trick, but with the new version it's completely screwed up.


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## bbrown9 (Mar 12, 2011)

nooneuknow said:


> Maybe I'm overreacting, but "What proof do you have?" feels insulting to me, given how much I've witnessed. How can anybody literally prove any experience they have, on here, short of a video? Oh wait, how can I prove the video isn't faked?
> 
> Sometimes proof of something is what you don't have proof of.


I didn't intend to insult. When someone speaks with authority on an issue and doesn't offer data to back up what they're saying, I ask questions so I can find out more of what they know.

I wanted to know what convinced you that it was network issues causing the reboots. The only evidence I see when a reboot happens is that a reboot happened. If I have monitoring equipment to monitor my in-home network, I might be able to correlate the reboots to the conditions of my in-home network, but I can't monitor what's happening outside my home and certainly not on TiVo servers. There is no visibility into that and without that visibility, it can't be pointed to as the definitive culprit.

It could be any stupid programming mistake that is causing it. Or there could be multiple causes with network glitches being one of them. Or it could be network glitches in all cases just as you said. I just haven't seen any data to sway my opinion in any one of those directions.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> And there is a weird bug where pressing Info again makes it go away except the last line. I have to press it over and over and eventually it'll go away, maybe. Use to be pressing it twice did the trick, but with the new version it's completely screwed up.


 Workaround is press Info button once to clear (and get the 1 remaining line) and then press down arrow and then screen will fully clear on its own after a few seconds.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> And there is a weird bug where pressing Info again makes it go away except the last line. I have to press it over and over and eventually it'll go away, maybe. Use to be pressing it twice did the trick, but with the new version it's completely screwed up.


A Premiere thing? Pressing it once toggles it on and off for me on my Roamio basic.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

mikeyts said:


> A Premiere thing? Pressing it once toggles it on and off for me on my Roamio basic.


 Nope, I have same problem on my Roamio Pro as well and have to use workaround I mentioned above.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

Huh--you're right. I'd never noticed it because I tend to turn that on and leave it on.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

bbrown9 said:


> I didn't intend to insult. When someone speaks with authority on an issue and doesn't offer data to back up what they're saying, I ask questions so I can find out more of what they know.
> 
> I wanted to know what convinced you that it was network issues causing the reboots. The only evidence I see when a reboot happens is that a reboot happened. If I have monitoring equipment to monitor my in-home network, I might be able to correlate the reboots to the conditions of my in-home network, but I can't monitor what's happening outside my home and certainly not on TiVo servers. There is no visibility into that and without that visibility, it can't be pointed to as the definitive culprit.
> 
> It could be any stupid programming mistake that is causing it. Or there could be multiple causes with network glitches being one of them. Or it could be network glitches in all cases just as you said. I just haven't seen any data to sway my opinion in any one of those directions.


It's all good. I had just been posting my data points and observations in many areas, where plenty of others were corroborating that the very sensitive Netflix implementation on just about any generation of TiVo tends to throw the whole box into a reboot, and also corroborating that it just seems unable to handle any network-related glitch of small proportions gracefully, instead choking, while other products' implementations do not have that same level of sensitivity. At the same time, the easy things to do, like inducing more major issues, like pulling the network cable, tend to be handled gracefully, without a reboot (most of the time). Still, how does one prove any of this, other than with others corroborating the same observations? It's pretty hard to provide real proof of any issue/bug spoken of. It's fairly easy to get others to say they see it as well, or that they don't. That's the best proof one can hope for, sometimes. It can be found by looking around the other Netflix discussion threads on here, with the TiVo software update threads having the most corroboration, since people are always looking for confirmations they aren't the only ones to see a new issue/bug, or that an existing one still exists, and also tend to complain more (since we tend to expect these issues/bugs to be fixed).

Unless you can find a way to legally induce a problem on a server or internet component upstream of the CM, the only proof that can be established is just how many others notice the same thing.

I was tired, and cranky, and did overreact. I did try to insert some humor, but it obviously wasn't enough to offset the over-reacting. I'd been getting all that interaction, with others seeing the same thing, and making the same speculations, as well as valid observations. This thread just isn't one of them, so it felt insulting, to me (at the time, not now).

I don't disagree with your take on it.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

so slow on Premiere. I won't be using it.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

b_scott said:


> so slow on Premiere. I won't be using it.


That's a shame. This new one supposedly replaces Webkit with an optimized layout/rendering engine of their own design that should work better on slower devices. Is it slower than the Flash version? If so, Premiere owners who depend on it for Netflix are going to be pissed.


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## spaldingclan (Aug 22, 2012)

I've updated to the new Premier software...why am I not seeing this new Netflix?


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

mikeyts said:


> That's a shame. This new one supposedly replaces Webkit with an optimized layout/rendering engine of their own design that should work better on slower devices. Is it slower than the Flash version? If so, Premiere owners who depend on it for Netflix are going to be pissed.


 It's better and faster than the Flash version for sure. Still much slower than on Roamio platform though.


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## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

spaldingclan said:


> I've updated to the new Premier software...why am I not seeing this new Netflix?


The 20.3.8 update and latest Netflix update are two separate updates. Once you are on 20.3.8 the Netflix client update will follow in time. It's worth the wait just for the ability while browsing to use << and >> buttons to jump around.


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## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

b_scott said:


> so slow on Premiere. I won't be using it.


Have you used the latest Netflix on Premiere? It's fine. Startup is 20+ seconds faster and the << and >> keys have been enabled to jump around when browsing.

Now it's not as fast as on a Roamio but once you start playing a selection it's every bit as fast. : )


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

CloudAtlas said:


> The 20.3.8 update and latest Netflix update are two separate updates. Once you are on 20.3.8 the Netflix client update will follow in time. It's worth the wait just for the ability while browsing to use << and >> buttons to jump around.


I've connected a few dozen times over the past couple of days since I got 20.3.8 and it refuses to download the update. Yesterday it faked me out by apparently downloading _something_ the second or third time--took several minutes to load but I still got the Flash version. As I've said, I just want to try it since I'm not actually using the Premiere. (I really ought to set it up somewhere or sell it; it has PLS. It would unfortunately require a trip to a Cox store for a CC and TA).


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

CloudAtlas said:


> Have you used the latest Netflix on Premiere? It's fine. Startup is 20+ seconds faster and the << and >> keys have been enabled to jump around when browsing.
> 
> Now it's not as fast as on a Roamio but once you start playing a selection it's every bit as fast. : )


Yes. that's the version I was talking about. The input lag is unbearable. I hit a button and 1.5 seconds later the cursor moves. Every other thing I own plays Netflix and works better.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

b_scott said:


> Yes. that's the version I was talking about. The input lag is unbearable. I hit a button and 1.5 seconds later the cursor moves. Every other thing I own plays Netflix and works better.


But that's 1.5 seconds more time before it reboots the whole TiVo, versus upgrading to the Roamio and getting your Netflix reboots that much faster! Enjoy that time. 

My remaining Rokus and WD TV Live devices will be keeping their HDMI ports I had hoped to free up.  Why I keep getting my hopes up, is beyond me...

I don't care how cool, or how fast, TiVo can implement Netflix. If they can't stop it from rebooting the whole product, it's not worth the anxiety of recordus interuptus.


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## Loach (Jan 11, 2013)

nooneuknow said:


> But that's 1.5 seconds more time before it reboots the whole TiVo, versus upgrading to the Roamio and getting your Netflix reboots that much faster! Enjoy that time.
> 
> My remaining Rokus and WD TV Live devices will be keeping their HDMI ports I had hoped to free up.  Why I keep getting my hopes up, is beyond me...
> 
> I don't care how cool, or how fast, TiVo can implement Netflix. If they can't stop it from rebooting the whole product, it's not worth the anxiety of recordus interuptus.


The reboot issue is a head-scratcher. I've never once experienced a reboot when using Netflix on my Premiere 4, yet others seem to have the problem regularly and there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it.

Lock-ups of the app to where I have to head back to Tivo Central and re-launch the app? Yep. App unresponsive to trick play commands? Yep, had that too. But never a reboot.

Edit for clarification: I'm referring to the old app. I don't have the new app yet.


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## jwcooper (Dec 15, 2005)

Loach said:


> The reboot issue is a head-scratcher. I've never once experienced a reboot when using Netflix on my Premiere 4, yet others seem to have the problem regularly and there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it.
> 
> Lock-ups of the app to where I have to head back to Tivo Central and re-launch the app? Yep. App unresponsive to trick play commands? Yep, had that too. But never a reboot.
> 
> Edit for clarification: I'm referring to the old app. I don't have the new app yet.


I have the new app, and have used the old (newish) app extensively. Have maybe had one reboot, and that was in the very early days of the premiere when looking at it funny would have caused a reboot. My premiere has been very stable lately.

Sure, fairly useless reply, but it's a positive counterpoint to all the negativity on these forums.

That being said, not sure I like the direction of the new Netflix apps...too much wasted space (top half of the screen).


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## xander777 (Feb 23, 2010)

nooneuknow said:


> But that's 1.5 seconds more time before it reboots the whole TiVo, versus upgrading to the Roamio and getting your Netflix reboots that much faster! Enjoy that time.
> 
> My remaining Rokus and WD TV Live devices will be keeping their HDMI ports I had hoped to free up.  Why I keep getting my hopes up, is beyond me...
> 
> I don't care how cool, or how fast, TiVo can implement Netflix. If they can't stop it from rebooting the whole product, it's not worth the anxiety of recordus interuptus.


I have the new app on both my 2-tuner Premieres and haven't had any problems. The app loads faster (40 seconds) and the navigation is quick with no lagging.

The only thing that is slow is selecting letters when searching. That's a bit of a pain but it does bring up suggestions quickly so you don't need to type the whole title in.

Are you using a 4-tuner model? It seems that those are slower than the 2-tuner models from what I have read on this forum.


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## spaldingclan (Aug 22, 2012)

We use the Tivo for Netflix a ton so I'll be glad to get the new app. I have 20.3.8 but still am not sure how to get the new version


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

xander777 said:


> I have the new app on both my 2-tuner Premieres and haven't had any problems. The app loads faster (40 seconds) and the navigation is quick with no lagging.
> 
> The only thing that is slow is selecting letters when searching. That's a bit of a pain but it does bring up suggestions quickly so you don't need to type the whole title in.
> 
> Are you using a 4-tuner model? It seems that those are slower than the 2-tuner models from what I have read on this forum.


 Agreed. I've been having marathon Netflix sessions on my Roamio Pro the last week or so and it has been working fast and flawlessly and not a single reboot for me. I even tried unplugging ethernet while streaming to force network problem and Netflix App behaved elegantly. For me on Roamio Pro this is by far best Netflix experience I've ever had.


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## jgametest (Oct 31, 2013)

Hey spaldingclan what is your twitter or email address.. I will sent a dm to Margret but I will need your tsn to send her so she can contact you if additional info is needed.


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## spaldingclan (Aug 22, 2012)

my twitter handle is @spalding_rob

tsn is 746-0001-909E-C18D


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Just checked and both my series 4 units with 20.3.8 now have Opera TV App & new Netflix App. Perhaps they have been available for days but I don't use those painfully slow series 4 units myself anymore so just got around to checking them.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

nooneuknow said:


> It's all good. I had just been posting my data points and observations in many areas, where plenty of others were corroborating that the very sensitive Netflix implementation on just about any generation of TiVo tends to throw the whole box into a reboot, and also corroborating that it just seems unable to handle any network-related glitch of small proportions gracefully, instead choking, while other products' implementations do not have that same level of sensitivity. At the same time, the easy things to do, like inducing more major issues, like pulling the network cable, tend to be handled gracefully, without a reboot (most of the time). Still, how does one prove any of this, other than with others corroborating the same observations? It's pretty hard to provide real proof of any issue/bug spoken of. It's fairly easy to get others to say they see it as well, or that they don't. That's the best proof one can hope for, sometimes. It can be found by looking around the other Netflix discussion threads on here, with the TiVo software update threads having the most corroboration, since people are always looking for confirmations they aren't the only ones to see a new issue/bug, or that an existing one still exists, and also tend to complain more (since we tend to expect these issues/bugs to be fixed).
> 
> Unless you can find a way to legally induce a problem on a server or internet component upstream of the CM, the only proof that can be established is just how many others notice the same thing.
> 
> ...


This is how I determined that the network may be the problem, I unplugged the TiVo part of the network as Netflix was playing and the TiVo re-booted, it was about 1/2 sec network down, that was about as fast as I could unplugged the RJ45 and re-plug it back in, not proof positive but close enough as the TiVo should never re-boot when the network goes down, no matter what it is doing. (The other TiVos that were not using Netflix did not re-boot.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

lessd said:


> This is how I determined that the network may be the problem, I unplugged the TiVo part of the network as Netflix was playing and the TiVo re-booted, it was about 1/2 sec network down, that was about as fast as I could unplugged the RJ45 and re-plug it back in, not proof positive but close enough as the TiVo should never re-boot when the network goes down, no matter what it is doing. (The other TiVos that were not using Netflix did not re-boot.


 That's odd because I just tried that on my Roamio Pro and it didn't reboot. Previously I had already tried unplugging RJ45 for over a minute or so and confirmed graceful Netflix behavior. So this time I tried unplugging it and then plugging it back in again as quickly as I could and I got same behavior - a message from Netflix about a "problem playing this title". After I OK the dialog box I was able to select the Netflix show again and continue playing without issue.

I don't know if it matters but my router setup as static DHCP, meaning that all devices effectively have static IP assignments even though they are using DHCP.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

I just did a few connects and it's still not giving me the new Netflix app or the Opera TV Store on my Premiere basic . I even tried changing the DNS addresses in my router, hopping around to various public servers around the country to see if I'd get hooked up to a TiVo server which would give me the updates, but no such luck. The Premiere might not use the DNS set in the router; I use a so-called "VPN" service to access Netflix libraries in other regions and that does not work with Premiere.

I did get the Opera TV Store on my Roamio. As Dave Zatz says, "prepare to be underwhelmed" .


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Still don't have it on my Premiere either. Not that I need it. The TV it's connected to is a smart TV and has all the network stuff I need.


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## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

nooneuknow said:


> I don't care how cool, or how fast, *TiVo can implement Netflix.* If they can't stop it from rebooting the whole product, it's not worth the anxiety of recordus interuptus.


TiVo has as much to do with implementing the Netflix app on the TiVo platform as Microsoft does with the Netflix app under Windows. Which is to say, none.

No one on this board knows exactly what Netflix is doing that certain boxes. I believe you that your box crashes by why yours and not others? I've never had a crash with Netflix and obviously neither have the Netflix developers. Bugs are hard to fix if they can't reproduce them. What's needed is the version info from the Netflix screen, what version of the OS, and the exact scenario that a developer could use to reproduce.

What version of the latest Netflix UI are you running? It will be two numbers followed by a letters (ie 11C).


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

CloudAtlas said:


> TiVo has as much to do with implementing the Netflix app on the TiVo platform as Microsoft does with the Netflix app under Windows. Which is to say, none.


I'd say TiVo is 100% responsible for their platform and poor sandboxing that allows Nextflix to lock up and/or bring down the DVR. As it's done to my XL4 multiple times... Until I gave up on the app. Hopefully the new one is more stable! (I have the OS update but not the Netflix update as far as I can tell.)


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## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

b_scott said:


> Yes. that's the version I was talking about. The input lag is unbearable. I hit a button and 1.5 seconds later the cursor moves. Every other thing I own plays Netflix and works better.


There is no way the latest Netflix client has a 1500ms lag. Exactly what are you doing when you see this? Note the latest version of Netflix runs only slightly slower than on my Roku 3. It's as good as anyone could expect from a 4 year old DVR - any DVR.

So you either don't have the latest version or Your remote needs new batteries.

What version of the latest Netflix UI are you running? It will be two numbers followed by a letters (ie 11C). Post a snapshot of the Netflix about version screen.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

davezatz said:


> I'd say TiVo is 100% responsible for their platform and poor sandboxing that allows Nextflix to lock up and/or bring down the DVR. As it's done to my XL4 multiple times... Until I gave up on the app. Hopefully the new one is more stable! (I have the OS update but not the Netflix update as far as I can tell.)


If you use kmttg you can force the Premiere to launch the new Netflix even if it's not the one that launches when you select it on the TiVo. I've played with it a bit it seems a bit zippier to me then the old one, but still not as fast as it is on the Roamio. Especially the typing in the search.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

My curiosity got the best of me so I installed kmttg and started it on my Premiere (a process that was less difficult than anticipated ). It does seem a bit less laggy than the Flash version and much prettier. Of course, it's less responsive to commands than it is on Roamio and it starts streams a bit slower. It's interesting that Profiles and captions work on Premiere but not on Roamio (captions/subs can be turned on Roamio but they don't show up, something that happened very recently). Is this the same version of the Netflix app?

EDIT: I checked the version numbers on the "Device Info" of the player's settings and the only thing that's different is "Software version" being 20.3.8-USA-6-846/2013.2.1 for Roamio and 20.3.8-01-2-746/2013.2.1 for Premiere. The 846 and 746 parts are the first three digits of the TiVo model numbers and 20.3.8 is the TiVo firmware version, so the main difference is USA-6 for Roamio and 01-2 for Premiere. I speculate the "Software version" is the version of the resident portion of the app.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Yeah I noticed the profiles were there too.

I wonder if TiVo has disabled those on purpose to support DIAL. Because if you launch an app with profiles via DIAL it stalls until you pick the profile. Without profiles it just starts. Plus with DIAL you've presumably already picked your profile on the mobile device so it's redundant. 

Although it would be nice if the app could bypass the profile screen if launched via DIAL and show it if it's launched via the TiVo.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

I use captions a lot in Netflix and they are working fine for me (Roamio Pro). Very minor beef is that sometimes (depending on title), captions are white, sometimes yellow. I like the yellow better.
(I wouldn't know if Profiles are working since we still only have 1 main Netflix profile that we all share in our family).


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

moyekj said:


> That's odd because I just tried that on my Roamio Pro and it didn't reboot. Previously I had already tried unplugging RJ45 for over a minute or so and confirmed graceful Netflix behavior. So this time I tried unplugging it and then plugging it back in again as quickly as I could and I got same behavior - a message from Netflix about a "problem playing this title". After I OK the dialog box I was able to select the Netflix show again and continue playing without issue.
> 
> I don't know if it matters but my router setup as static DHCP, meaning that all devices effectively have static IP assignments even though they are using DHCP.


I am using DHCP, don't know if that makes any difference.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

davezatz said:


> I'd say TiVo is 100% responsible for their platform and poor sandboxing that allows Nextflix to lock up and/or bring down the DVR. As it's done to my XL4 multiple times... Until I gave up on the app. Hopefully the new one is more stable! (I have the OS update but not the Netflix update as far as I can tell.)


Thanks, Dave, for saving me from a need to reply to such a weird declaration, that TiVo has nothing to do with Netflix being on TiVo's own hardware/paltform.

Also, thanks for the data points. I've been getting a lot of "me too" and otherwise affirmative/supporting statements from others, in other threads. Yet, this particular thread has been the opposite. It's a YMMV situation, so I can understand why reports vary so much. I'm also *not* saying that what anybody posts that doesn't support my own experiences, and testing, is wrong.

I'll gather up some solid data points to answer the questions others have asked and make a consolidate post with it all, sorted and categorized in the proper manner. I'll take the time to do it right, rather than one-offs for each item.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

nooneuknow said:


> But that's 1.5 seconds more time before it reboots the whole TiVo, versus upgrading to the Roamio and getting your Netflix reboots that much faster! Enjoy that time.


I never watched much NetFlix as the TiVo app was so slow. Thought I would try the new one...

Wow! Fast, responsive, easier to control.

I watched a movie over a couple days. Started up exactly where it should each time. Rewind worked well. If I had a complaint, it would be at the end, the credits, they put them in a little box in the corner of the screen (like some basic cable channels do) and ran promos for other movies in the main area. But that's a NF complaint, not TiVo.

No reboots in a week of playing with it. I may actually start watching some NetFlix now.:up:


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

astrohip said:


> I never watched much NetFlix as the TiVo app was so slow. Thought I would try the new one...
> 
> Wow! Fast, responsive, easier to control.
> 
> ...


I consider all of this a good thing. The more people that are actually using their TiVos for Netflix, the more results/experiences/data points there will be to share, be it good, bad, or neutral.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

moyekj said:


> I use captions a lot in Netflix and they are working fine for me (Roamio Pro). Very minor beef is that sometimes (depending on title), captions are white, sometimes yellow. I like the yellow better.
> (I wouldn't know if Profiles are working since we still only have 1 main Netflix profile that we all share in our family).


Huh. I wonder why captions work for you but not me (Roamio Basic)? It's only been the last few days.

Netflix seems to be switching from yellow captions to white ones that jump around to appear in short lines at the speaker's location. At first I only saw it for some films and only on PS3 but now its most films on all platforms (with the new player on Premiere the captions were white but they didn't seem to jump around). Maybe I'll reboot my TiVo and see if that has an effect.

EDIT: Captions are back without a reboot. Whatever .


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

CloudAtlas said:


> There is no way the latest Netflix client has a 1500ms lag. Exactly what are you doing when you see this? Note the latest version of Netflix runs only slightly slower than on my Roku 3. It's as good as anyone could expect from a 4 year old DVR - any DVR.
> 
> So you either don't have the latest version or Your remote needs new batteries.
> 
> What version of the latest Netflix UI are you running? It will be two numbers followed by a letters (ie 11C). Post a snapshot of the Netflix about version screen.


Cloud, I have the latest version. I've stated that.

The up/down/left/right commands are just annoyingly slow. It's not an app killer but when I have other devices that easily play it much better (my 360 is architecture built in 2003), there's no point in using it. Especially now that everything is pretty much the same app except Apple TV and Xbox One.


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## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

b_scott said:


> Cloud, I have the latest version. I've stated that.
> 
> The up/down/left/right commands are just annoyingly slow. It's not an app killer but when I have other devices that easily play it much better (my 360 is architecture built in 2003), there's no point in using it. Especially now that everything is pretty much the same app except Apple TV and Xbox One.


So the 1500ms number was just made up? If you have other devices to run Netflix then you should be be happy. Otherwise you would have posted the version number of the UI so at least we'd know what version you're using. Netflix can and does update the UI from week to week. Obviously I'm not seeing the problem you are having so it's either the version you are running or your unrealistic expectations from using a 4 year old DVR. It's as fast as a Roku 2.

Are you honestly comparing a standalone video game system vs a DVR? You do realize a video game system is idle until you start up Netflix and is optimized for speed/graphics? Of course it's faster than a Premiere. It's also faster than a Roku 2 or my Sony BluRay. Yet unlike the Premiere it's cpu wasn't chosen based on being on 24/7/365 like a Premiere. And the a Premiere functions as a DVR unlike the Xbox. Apples to apples.

Look if you want to do unfair comparisons why not compare yourself against Brad Pitt and tell me how you fare? You both are guys so that seems fair.


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## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

davezatz said:


> I'd say TiVo is 100% responsible for their platform and poor sandboxing that allows Nextflix to lock up and/or bring down the DVR. As it's done to my XL4 multiple times... Until I gave up on the app. *Hopefully the new one is more stable*! (I have the OS update but not the Netflix update as far as I can tell.)


TiVo's OS is Linux running Netflix as a Linux executable binary. Explain to me exactly what how a TiVo would implement sandboxing ? Understand this isn't a Java app running in a browser. It's running bare on Linux and I'm guessing the access to the frame buffer is crashing TiVo. I'm guessing because it doesn't crash on my Premiere. Linux/UNIX is rock solid yet for R/T streaming apps it seems they are given low level access and can crash the OS.

I've seen both my Roku and BluRay players crash from running applications and they are nothing more than file loaders like MS-DOS. The Premieres actually function as DVR's in addition to running applications. From a software perspective it's night and day.

Unless Netflix or TiVo explains technically what is causing these reboots on a certain boxes everything is just speculation. Does anyone really believe Netflix is seeing these crashes and decided it was ready to ship rather than fix? Netflix has some of the top developers in the world so a little help in reproducing the problem isn't asking to much.

Note: your Netflix UI should be at least at 36P.


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## bbrown9 (Mar 12, 2011)

CloudAtlas said:


> TiVo's OS is Linux running Netflix as a Linux executable binary.


I'm not sure that's exactly true. It's HTML5 running in an Opera browser, I believe.

Regardless, if the TiVo crashes, it's a TiVo issue and not a Netflix issue. (Unless Netflix has its own device driver that runs in Linux kernel-mode). If it is possible for an application to crash a platform, the platform has a vulnerability that should not be there.

That's not to say that Netflix doesn't also have a bug. But it shouldn't matter how many bugs it has or how sever those bugs are, it should never crash the platform. It could crash the application itself, but never the platform.


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## 241705 (Mar 9, 2010)

Nice update on the Netflix app on the Premiere. Thanks, TiVo & Netflix!

We've used it pretty heavily during the past several days. The app works well and the responds to the remote always. The previous version used to refuse to pause, fast-forward, etc.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

mikeyts said:


> Huh. I wonder why captions work for you but not me (Roamio Basic)? It's only been the last few days.
> 
> Netflix seems to be switching from yellow captions to white ones that jump around to appear in short lines at the speaker's location. At first I only saw it for some films and only on PS3 but now its most films on all platforms (with the new player on Premiere the captions were white but they didn't seem to jump around). Maybe I'll reboot my TiVo and see if that has an effect.
> 
> EDIT: Captions are back without a reboot. Whatever .


I assume you are aware that you can customize the appearance of the captions, right? QUOTE: *You can also change the appearance of Netflix subtitles, including font size, color, and style. To change these settings, log into Your Account and click Subtitle appearance.* END QUOTE


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

chiguy50 said:


> I assume you are aware that you can customize the appearance of the captions, right? QUOTE: *You can also change the appearance of Netflix subtitles, including font size, color, and style. To change these settings, log into Your Account and click Subtitle appearance.* END QUOTE


 I wasn't aware. I logged in and checked mine and see that it had yellow color which is what I like. However, some titles show yellow captions and other white captions, so those settings don't appear to be global for all titles.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

Here's a part of a post I made in another area, where QoS tweaking was being discussed as a means to prioritize things (which could help here as well) :

As it turns out, unless any/all switches involved honor the QoS tagging, it can be useless. The switches seem to need to specify "Honors IEEE 802.1p priority tags".

I learned this real fast when I hooked up two basictalk VoIP adapters. The QoS stops working at the first non-compliant switch. I have two adapters, on two accounts and two phone numbers. No amount of tweaking the QoS at the Netgear router would work, unless the VoIP adapters were plugged directly into the router.

Newegg has a Netgear A/V series switch solution for this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122363

This would eliminate the VoIP issue. Perhaps the QoS can "sneak through" somehow, when dealing with other devices. I honestly don't know, and am considering getting two of these prioritizing switches to free up router ports, and increase my network's potential.

Bullet points:

Split a single wired Internet connection and connect up to 4 Internet-ready devices
3DHDHigh range and reliability, capable of streaming 3DHD
Full HD 1080pOptimized for streaming full 1080p video from the Internet

*Additional notes:*

Maybe, just maybe, making use of these switches could "insure" the best possible scenario for all our streaming goodness.

I still don't get how I can stream Hulu Plus for three days straight, with no reboots, and only a "network error" message, every here and there, usually when shifting between commercials and the programming, with worst case scenario being I have to back-out and restart Hulu Plus.

In that same three-day span, streaming Netflix has rebooted the TiVo three times. This should never happen, but it does.

More notes and details to come, later...


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

CloudAtlas said:


> TiVo's OS is Linux running Netflix as a Linux executable binary. Explain to me exactly what how a TiVo would implement sandboxing ? Understand this isn't a Java app running in a browser.


Yeah, it pretty much is. The Netflix player is written in web authoring languages (Javascript, etc). Their older one, which initially shipped on Roamio, was written for an HTML5/Webkit execution environment (like the Opera SDK platform), but the new one, launched six weeks ago, replaces Webkit with a custom layout/rendering engine optimized for their application; you can read something about it here and here in Netflix's technical blog). There would be a hardcoded component, but the UI itself is dynamically loaded, from disk cache or over the network, and modifiable without a firmware update or any action by TiVo (I've heard from a friend who works at TiVo that there were people there who were a bit leary of that ).


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

CloudAtlas said:


> So the 1500ms number was just made up? If you have other devices to run Netflix then you should be be happy. Otherwise you would have posted the version number of the UI so at least we'd know what version you're using. Netflix can and does update the UI from week to week. Obviously I'm not seeing the problem you are having so it's either the version you are running or your unrealistic expectations from using a 4 year old DVR. It's as fast as a Roku 2.
> 
> Are you honestly comparing a standalone video game system vs a DVR? You do realize a video game system is idle until you start up Netflix and is optimized for speed/graphics? Of course it's faster than a Premiere. It's also faster than a Roku 2 or my Sony BluRay. Yet unlike the Premiere it's cpu wasn't chosen based on being on 24/7/365 like a Premiere. And the a Premiere functions as a DVR unlike the Xbox. Apples to apples.
> 
> Look if you want to do unfair comparisons why not compare yourself against Brad Pitt and tell me how you fare? You both are guys so that seems fair.


You're wasting a lot of breath here. I see what I see. The input lag seems to only be in the main screen, and it was not there before. It's not my harmony remote, which has 0ms input settings. I did not time the lag, but it's definitely noticeable and very annoying. Once the videos are started the app is fine. That menu sucks. I have a PS3, two Xbox 360's, Xbox One, an HTPC, an OUYA, a Boxee, a Bluray player, and a TV that does Netflix. The Premiere runs by far the worst for Netflix.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

chiguy50 said:


> I assume you are aware that you can customize the appearance of the captions, right? QUOTE: *You can also change the appearance of Netflix subtitles, including font size, color, and style. To change these settings, log into Your Account and click Subtitle appearance.* END QUOTE


I was not aware of that--thank you pointing it out. It's hard for me to believe that I missed that; I wonder how long that's been there? It only seems effective on the new Netflix player; it doesn't work on the Flash one or the HTML5/Webkit players on other devices.

EDIT: I played with the feature some more. It works on the Android player and the Silverlight and HTML5 web site players, but not the Win8 Netflix app or Xbox One player.

One handy use of it is nullifying forced foreign language subs on English language films. If you use something like Unblock-US to access the Netflix libraries of other regions, sometimes there is no "no subtitles" choice. For example, in the Brazil and Mexico regions, you get a choice of Brazilian Portuguese or Spanish subs, but you must have subs. Black text on a black background shows up as little black rectangles, far less distracting and annoying than text in a language that I don't understand. (Testing this I found that, though the stream info display shows that subs in the default language are enabled, none show up until you select the other language; probably a bug but nice while it lasts . Also most English language titles in the Nordic and Netherlands regions now have a "no subtitles" choice--poking around I couldn't find one which didn't. Some even had available English CC).


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## xander777 (Feb 23, 2010)

b_scott said:


> You're wasting a lot of breath here. I see what I see. The input lag seems to only be in the main screen, and it was not there before. It's not my harmony remote, which has 0ms input settings. I did not time the lag, but it's definitely noticeable and very annoying. Once the videos are started the app is fine. That menu sucks. I have a PS3, two Xbox 360's, Xbox One, an HTPC, an OUYA, a Boxee, a Bluray player, and a TV that does Netflix. The Premiere runs by far the worst for Netflix.


Just wondering, as a test, have you tried the TiVo remote and had the same lag?


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

xander777 said:


> Just wondering, as a test, have you tried the TiVo remote and had the same lag?


I have not. I will try and find it in my box and test it out.


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## Jackamus (Sep 20, 2010)

This has been an interesting read this AM. I finally got the Netflix App on one out of three boxes. The other two are jealous. 

What's interesting about reading the thread this AM, is how everyone knows what Netflix and TiVo have to do with each other. It's TiVo, it's Netflix. Everyone knows everything but no one knows anything.. Happy Thursday!!

Thank you for starting my day off right..


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

I have 20.3.8 but have old netflix. Anyone else having same problem?


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## Jackamus (Sep 20, 2010)

BlackBetty said:


> I have 20.3.8 but have old netflix. Anyone else having same problem?


Samething here.... Well almost. I've got the new Netflix on one box, but not my other two.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

It won't load it to my Premiere either (I haven't checked today). I have tried the new Netflix player on Premiere by using kmttg to start it.


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## brbrem (Jan 7, 2008)

Same problem here. Ant way to force the update?


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

Not that I'm aware of. You can keep forcing connections, but you can't make it give the update to you. I've been forcing connections several times a day for the past few days--no joy.


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## beeman65 (Oct 18, 2005)

BlackBetty said:


> I have 20.3.8 but have old netflix. Anyone else having same problem?


Same with me. Got the 20.3.8 update last week and still have the old Netflix. Forced connections many times. The old Netflix loads and displays a "this title cannot be displayed at this time." error.


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## Wingershute (Oct 22, 2010)

beeman65 said:


> Same with me. Got the 20.3.8 update last week and still have the old Netflix. Forced connections many times. The old Netflix loads and displays a "this title cannot be displayed at this time." error.


I've been having the same problem on one of my premieres for days now. What is the fix?


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## brbrem (Jan 7, 2008)

Just did a force connect and no luck. My mini has the netflix update but the premiere does not.


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## Futureinsights (Nov 19, 2013)

brbrem said:


> Same problem here. Ant way to force the update?


Called in, got two reps vary little knowledge. Called back, got older rep, some releases of 20.3.8 didn't include the Netflix kit. The other two reps knew nothing about this (it's a slow education process).

The rep CAN fill a form for tier two to release the kit Can take up to 48 hours or so for new app to take affect (didn't mention the opera thing). Still waiting, since I just had the request put in.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

Netflix is BAD the last few days. This is an HD program (West Wing)


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## Jackamus (Sep 20, 2010)

Mine has been crappy as well. Keeps changing stream quality.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

Must be all of the people at home for Xmas break. My service has been just fine, but my ISP is a Open Connect partner .

Something is wrong with the HDMI input my Roamio is on, so I've actually been using the new Netflix app on my Premiere, started using kmttg.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

20.3.8 here and no new netflix.

Was hoping to see if it had profile support. Just got my BF the roku 2 for Xmas but it doesn't support profiles which he uses. He has a premiere TiVo so I was hoping he could do it there.

This is way more complicated than it should be.

It seems Netflix is just as mixed up as android in terms of what features are supported where and with what. What a mess.


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## spaldingclan (Aug 22, 2012)

Bought the Roamio and moved my Premier upstairs....and of course NOW I get the new Netflix on the old box...I like it but the upper banner showing the show info is Huge!


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## eddieb187 (Jan 17, 2009)

Jackamus said:


> Mine has been crappy as well. Keeps changing stream quality.


Netflix App on my Premiere is doing the same thing right now. Been watching Breaking Bad and it usually goes up to Super HD pretty quickly and used to stay there. But Today, up to Super HD and then drops to 240 SD and then back up again. Keeps fluctuating. Since using the updated app I have not noticed this before. Today is the first time I've had this issue. I have TWC and a 20 Mbps/2 Mbps speed service. I think this is a Netflix issue. Maybe they are having some streaming problems?


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## eddieb187 (Jan 17, 2009)

Just found this online. Maybe this is why?
http://www.slashgear.com/netflix-hi...lems-in-us-canada-and-latin-america-26310118/


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## jgametest (Oct 31, 2013)

Netflix crashed and rebooted TiVo yesterday during primetime hours of 8pm-9pm watching a movie and "nip and tuck" series. When I got home from work around 1am, I watched 3 episodes of "The 4400" with no reboot or errors. Could it be the system overloaded with users or some other weird reaction to the Tivo server?


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## bbrown9 (Mar 12, 2011)

b_scott said:


> Netflix is BAD the last few days. This is an HD program (West Wing)


Mine is still doing that. West Wing won't get out of SD - stuck at no higher than 480, sometimes it goes lower. It looks even worse on my brand new Roku 3 though, so I don't think it's a TiVo issue. It must be a Netflix issue.


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## thegardentool (Oct 3, 2013)

I haven't tried to watch anything with the updated Netflix. It does seem to work better, although it is still really slow compared to other devices. I did have a lot of issues with trying to login to Netflix, so hopefully it saves my login information for awhile at least.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

I just found this. I don't think I have an update on my Premieres, but I gave up trying to watch Netflix on them. Too many stops and starts. I used to think it was my internet connection - until I got a new Blu-ray player and started using that. Works great there. 

Hopefully the update fixes the sputtering problem but I doubt it. Last night I tried to watch a show from Netflix through my Tivo and didn't last five minutes with all the stops and starts. Went through the Blu-ray player and it was smooth as silk. I wonder why the problem viewing through the Tivo.


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## Lars_J (Feb 1, 2005)

I noticed a Netflix update yesterday... I had signed up for the priority list weeks ago.

So far it seems to run better. It also allows easier change of audio and subtitles. But I'm not sure I like the new UI at the front. I'd rather see more titles at once than a huge image for the currently selected item.

The old Netflix player used to stop responding to commands after a while (unable to pause) - but I haven't used it enough yet to see if the new one fixes that.


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## TiVo Fool (Dec 17, 2001)

Futureinsights said:


> Called in, got two reps vary little knowledge. Called back, got older rep, some releases of 20.3.8 didn't include the Netflix kit. The other two reps knew nothing about this (it's a slow education process).
> 
> The rep CAN fill a form for tier two to release the kit Can take up to 48 hours or so for new app to take affect (didn't mention the opera thing). Still waiting, since I just had the request put in.


I also called. They opened a support ticket for tier two and they got the new version of Netflix released to my Premiere in two business days.

Sent from my DROID MAXX using Tapatalk


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I now have the new Opera store and new Netflix on my Premiere. Also on the Premiere unit the Netflix profiles are active, but they're not on my Roamio.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> I now have the new Opera store and new Netflix on my Premiere. Also on the Premiere unit the Netflix profiles are active, but they're not on my Roamio.


Where do you find the Opera store? Did not see that. Netflix profiles are active on my Premiere.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

On the apps menu, like second or 3rd from the bottom. (can't remember the exact name) Also have TechCrunch and MovieFone there.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

I got the new Netflix on my Premiere today as well (got it a couple of days after it was announced on Roamio). Interestingly, profiles work for it but not for Roamio; on Roamio they don't show up in any way or fashion, not even on the menu row.


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## defond (Dec 14, 2004)

To those who have the new update, but don't have the new Netflix or App Store I just got done talking to TiVo customer support and he looked at my account and said that both of my premieres should have the new app. He suggested power cycling the TiVo and then forcing a connection. Lo and behold it worked! Now both of my premieres have the new Netflix. So if you haven't tried that, give it a try. Before I called I didn't have it and I tried forcing connections and it didn't work. So power cycling the box must've done it.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

defond said:


> To those who have the new update, but don't have the new Netflix or App Store I just got done talking to TiVo customer support and he looked at my account and said that both of my premieres should have the new app. He suggested power cycling the TiVo and then forcing a connection. Lo and behold it worked! Now both of my premieres have the new Netflix. So if you haven't tried that, give it a try. Before I called I didn't have it and I tried forcing connections and it didn't work. So power cycling the box must've done it.


You probably could have just rebooted the HDUI (from TiVo Central/Main Menu) with this method:

Thumbs Down, Thumbs Up, Play, Play

Thumbs Down, Thumbs Up, Rec, Rec - seems to do the same thing.

This is usually what TiVoMargret, and whoever runs the facebook page, recommends when things are missing after an update.

Of course, if you have nothing recording, or about to record, rebooting the whole box is more thorough.

For Premieres, a quick shortcut to the SDUI (since I'm on a roll here) is:

Thumbs Down, Thumbs Up, Pause, Pause - Use the menus to get back, this shortcut only works in one direction.

*Also: The Netgear AV-series switches I bought have significantly improved both the overall experience, and reboot issues with Netflix. I see a huge improvement with Hulu Plus, during those scaling changes when the commercials start, switch, and end.*

Another thing I have found is the scaling is messed up if you only use 1080P and 1080P/24. I switched to 1080i and 1080P/24, and the Roamio quit giving my new HDMI switches fits in Hulu Plus during those commercial scaling times. It took putting in those HDMI switches (in addition to the AV-series network switches), to figure out that 1080P/60 should be avoided. I even fixed a screen blanking (blacking out) issue with another TV that supports 1080P/60 & 1080P/24 natively, by setting it to 1080i & 1080P/24 ONLY.

Yes (before I get asked), the HDMI switches work fine with every other device I have, if I set them to 1080P and run all the same things. It's strictly a Roamio issue. It's not 20 bad HDMI cables, or anything like that. The scaling on 20.3.8 is messed-up on Roamios, as others have been saying, in other threads. I've verified, and replicated the results.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> On the apps menu, like second or 3rd from the bottom. (can't remember the exact name) Also have TechCrunch and MovieFone there.


I found them. Has anyone try any of the games? Is TiVo trying to turn into a Playstation?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Adding that app store is part of their deal with Opera. They needed a browser to support HTML5 apps and Opera wants more devices to support their store/browser. Plus it's a quick way for TiVo to bolster their app numbers.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

nooneuknow said:


> This is usually what TiVoMargret, and whoever runs the facebook page, recommends when things are missing after an update.


In a thread about the 20.3.8 update, TiVoMargret said that you should get the new Netflix after forcing a few connections. After dozens of connections and reboots over the course of several days since I got 20.3.8 on my Premiere it never gave me the update. I did one connection yesterday after which the new Netflix, two new apps and the Opera Store appeared. It will give it to you when it feels like giving it to you .


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

mikeyts said:


> In a thread about the 20.3.8 update, TiVoMargret said that you should get the new Netflix after forcing a few connections. After dozens of connections and reboots over the course of several days since I got 20.3.8 on my Premiere it never gave me the update. I did one connection yesterday after which the new Netflix, two new apps and the Opera Store appeared. It will give it to you when it feels like giving it to you .


OK, my post should have included the connection forcing, since TiVoMargret did state that. However, if you check her Twitter feed, she's usually requesting TSNs, in bulk, from those saying they haven't received an update, or are missing things. She manually enters TSNs to get around their system giving things when it gets around to it (which is actually by design, in many, or most cases).

The rebooting of the HDUI is still advice she gives when an update has been installed, but fails to appear within the menus. Of course, it would make sense to force a connection, then reboot the UI. I usually reboot the UI, then force a connection, then reboot the UI again (once I have given her the TSNs of units that this has failed to do anything for, or that haven't even received the update, and I then see the update has installed).

It always been an issue, for the priority list users, and the early rollout users to see all the new things appear. TiVo authorizes those parts, also is a staged manner. It's meant to be that way, so if there is a problem with the base update, it gets spotted before their servers give you more things that could have problems, creating compounded issues.

There's been a recent issue with the past two updates and the TSN priority signup page, where the TSNs are accepted, but fall into a "black hole", and unless you reach out to her, you'll likely be one of the last to get the update, and the last to see the new secondary server-enabled features.

It useless to call the Call Center CS Reps. They are just some outsourced group that supports more than one product, and everything they say is scripted (unless they make a comment, off-script).

Like I've said in the recent past, TiVo should have TiVoMargret design a new support system, then cancel their contract with the group we have been dealing with, that will claim nothing is wrong, while TiVoMargret will be tweeting and posting that there is, in fact, something wrong (on their end).

She's part of the actual TiVo company. The Call Center CS Reps will claim they are, but they are directed to state that they are a part of TiVo, work for TiVo, and so on... They are like a left arm, that doesn't know what the right arm is doing (TiVoMargret being the right arm).

Example:

*TiVo Call Center CSR:* There is nothing wrong with the TiVo service, replace your whole network, the problem is isolated to you.

*TiVoMargret:* We are experiencing a TiVo service issue. We are working on it. Sorry.


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## TiVo Fool (Dec 17, 2001)

nooneuknow said:


> It useless to call the Call Center CS Reps. They are just some outsourced group that supports more than one product, and everything they say is scripted (unless they make a comment, off-script).


I don't agree.

Every time I contacted the Call Center they have been able to efficiently resolve my issues.

Sent from my DROID MAXX using Tapatalk


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

TiVo Fool said:


> I don't agree.
> 
> Every time I contacted the Call Center they have been able to efficiently resolve my issues.
> 
> Sent from my DROID MAXX using Tapatalk


No offense intended, but that may simply just mean you had issues in their computer Q & A scripted process.

I also meant my advice specifically for those having problems getting new updates, and getting the new menu items to appear, that have to be enabled from TiVo's side.

With that, my post is on-topic, directly address what is being discussed, and I feel is accurate.

I'd almost bet money (I don't have any to bet), that your solved issues are not the type being discussed. My example of CSR responses, and TiVoMargret responses were generic in nature, but still hit the target (and actually are ~95% worded as the actual responses). Since I knew the wording might not be 100% accurate, I did not use actual quotes ("...."), on them.

If you can say that the issues TiVo's call-center CSRs were resolving failure to receive an update, and/or getting the extra menu items and newer versions of OTT apps to appear and work, then I'd still say you lucked-out (that the CSRs would do more than tell you to wait your turn to get updates and get the new items displayed and working).


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> On the apps menu, like second or 3rd from the bottom. (can't remember the exact name) Also have TechCrunch and MovieFone there.


Yeah, I checked yesterday AM (12/31) and new Netflix, Opera, Moviefone, and TechCrunch were all there. Hope to play with Netflix a bit before I leave for CES, but may not get to (Netflix at that location in the house).


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## bensonr2 (Feb 4, 2011)

I had been having similar problems with not getting the new Netflix even though I was on the latest software version and the problem was not fixed with a reboot.

On both my premieres I fixed the problem by removing Netflix from the video provider list and then re adding it.

I had to reenter my Netflix account credentials but it worked. Just fyi in case other people are still having similar problems.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

davezatz said:


> Yeah, I checked yesterday AM (12/31) and new Netflix, Opera, Moviefone, and TechCrunch were all there. Hope to play with Netflix a bit before I leave for CES, but may not get to (Netflix at that location in the house).


It seems a LOT faster then the old one. The new apps also seem faster compared to the older ones. At least navigating the UI anyway. I think switching to HTML5 was a wise move and something they should have done a long time ago. Too bad they can't convert the HDUI to HTML5 then the Premiere might not feel so terrible to use.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> It seems a LOT faster then the old one.


It's definitely a lot faster than the one that ran on Adobe AIR. I'm actually impressed with how smoothly it runs on Premiere, though it is palpably more responsive on Roamio. I spent several hours using it on my Premiere yesterday.

I don't believe that this version of Netflix is running on the Opera SDK platform (though I think that the one which shipped with Roamio might have been). They've stated that they developed their own layout/rendering engine replacing Webkit, pared down and optimized for their application, which should run the client faster on slower, low resource hardware platforms.


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## TiVo Fool (Dec 17, 2001)

nooneuknow said:


> No offense intended, but that may simply just mean you had issues in their computer Q & A scripted process.
> 
> I also meant my advice specifically for those having problems getting new updates, and getting the new menu items to appear, that have to be enabled from TiVo's side.
> 
> ...


No offense taken. You're wrong, I called them about getting the update being discussed in this thread and the got it for me!

Sent from my DROID MAXX using Tapatalk


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## Futureinsights (Nov 19, 2013)

nooneuknow said:


> You probably could have just rebooted the HDUI (from TiVo Central/Main Menu) with this method:
> 
> Thumbs Down, Thumbs Up, Play, Play
> 
> ...


The scaling is messed up on the premieres with 20,3.8 AND on the minis (if you allow anything in the 480 range).


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## MARKPIE (Nov 24, 2013)

" You probably could have just rebooted the HDUI (from TiVo Central/Main Menu) with this method:

Thumbs Down, Thumbs Up, Play, Play"

I got the update on both Premiere Tivos Tuesday morning but not the Netflix update. Thanks nooneuknow, the above got it on the downstairs Tivo but not the upstairs Tivo. I definately notice a better Netflix experience now.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

Futureinsights said:


> The scaling is messed up on the premieres with 20,3.8 AND on the minis (if you allow anything in the 480 range).


I hadn't tried that. I prefer to stick to one highest resolution, and 1080p/24 pass-thru.

Since the Premiere's highest is 1080i, that's the one I use on them. I was happy to see 1080p/60 on the Roamio, but can't use it if I'm going to stream Hulu or Netflix...


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

MARKPIE said:


> nooneuknow said:
> 
> 
> > You probably could have just rebooted the HDUI (from TiVo Central/Main Menu) with this method:
> ...


Just send an email to [email protected], with the TSN of the one still missing it, and let her know the situation. When she's done with her holiday time off, she usually addresses such things quickly, or will tell you if you just have to wait (which I haven't experienced yet).


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## hfcsyrup (Dec 12, 2012)

finally got the new netflix yesterday. still takes 41 seconds to load on my P4, slightly faster than before. and another 20 or so seconds after selecting a profile, so really taking longer. but more importantly cant get above 480p. roku, playing thru the tivo moca bridge played hd fine. sigh.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

hfcsyrup said:


> finally got the new netflix yesterday. still takes 41 seconds to load on my P4, slightly faster than before. and another 20 or so seconds after selecting a profile, so really taking longer. but more importantly cant get above 480p. roku, playing thru the tivo moca bridge played hd fine. sigh.


Yeah, sigh. Took a quick look on my XL4 last night. Then hooked up the Apple TV.


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## MMG (Dec 11, 1999)

Finally got the netflix update. It loads quickly. Anybody else notice how slow fast forwarding is? I like to look at disaster movies... I'll watch the first 10 minutes to get the gist and fast forward to the last 10 minutes to see the climax. It takes about 15 minutes to fast forward now..,.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

mikeyts said:


> I don't believe that this version of Netflix is running on the Opera SDK platform (though I think that the one which shipped with Roamio might have been). They've stated that they developed their own layout/rendering engine replacing Webkit, pared down and optimized for their application, which should run the client faster on slower, low resource hardware platforms.


You're right it doesn't. I was referring to the other apps being faster because of HTML5. I did some testing a wile back. The other apps leave a history entry in the Opera browser, but Netflix does not. So it's definitely using it's own thing. However it's still based on javascript and a custom rendering engine, and not Flash, so I think that is part of the reason for the increased speed.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> You're right it doesn't. I was referring to the other apps being faster because of HTML5. I did some testing a wile back. The other apps leave a history entry in the Opera browser, but Netflix does not. So it's definitely using it's own thing.


I guess the divergent implementation could also explain the divergent performance, compared to Roamio. Hopefully they tighten up the experience. Guess we're lucky they're still doing any Premiere updates at this point?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

davezatz said:


> Guess we're lucky they're still doing any Premiere updates at this point?


In the past these sorts of things would have been exclusive to the new unit to push people toward upgrading. I'm betting we have their MSO partners to thank for the continued support of the the Premiere units.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

davezatz said:


> I guess the divergent implementation could also explain the divergent performance, compared to Roamio.


The implementation of the new Netflix client is the same on Premiere and Roamio. It runs OK on Premiere, though not quite as responsive to commands as running on Roamio. Divergent performance is due to divergent processor speed.

I was a bit shocked to see them port the new Netflix and the Opera SDK platform, apps and Opera Store to Premiere.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

mikeyts said:


> The implementation of the new Netflix client is the same on Premiere and Roamio. It runs OK on Premiere, though not quite as responsive to commands as running on Roamio. Divergent performance is due to divergent processor speed. I was a bit shocked to see them port the new Netflix and the Opera SDK platform, apps and Opera Store to Premiere.


Gotcha - I thought Dan was saying Roamio uses the Opera framework whereas Premiere was custom. But you're saying it's the same custom thing - but performance is better due to the vastly superior Roamio hardware. However, that doesn't explain (for me) the low streaming quality (and lower than the prior Netflix app, which had it's own set of issues). Hm. I'm hopeful they'll get it sorted and imagine the hard part is done.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

davezatz said:


> However, that doesn't explain (for me) the low streaming quality (and lower than the prior Netflix app, which had it's own set of issues). Hm. I'm hopeful they'll get it sorted and imagine the hard part is done.


So you're seeing consistently lower quality streams on the new Netflix player on Premiere than on Roamio? I'm not; in that regard they perform the same for me. I do have nominally 100 Mbps service from a Netflix Open Connect partner ISP. Using either platform I see "Super HD" either immediately or within a few seconds.


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## the57motz (Jun 24, 2008)

whoops just saw this after i asked on the other thread if the netflix update was coming with new update, i can't wait I love netflix but hoping the update fixes some of the issues


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## Tom Pich (Jan 29, 2013)

Just got the new Netflix app a few days ago. Loads much quicker and profile support too! Love it!


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## Bad_Haggis (Apr 10, 2012)

Spent the last hour or so forcing network connects and reboots trying to get the new Netflix app. I already had the Tivo update, so I dunno why Netflix is being stubborn.

I'd really like to get it working as my wife and I have separate profiles now and she's getting mad that my "lame sci-fi movies" are messing up her profile. 

Also 8 out of 10 times when I'm watching something the subtitles will freeze and I am unable to pause/rewind/ffwd/stop playback. All I can do is hit the Tivo button or Live TV to exit Netflix then wait for it load back up.


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## Blazesyth (Jan 25, 2010)

I have the new app, but can't use it. A few days before the update it stopped working, no titles available to stream. Everything is unavailable. Same error after updating to new version.


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## tk488 (Jan 16, 2014)

Still don't have the new Netflix, even though TiVo greeted us several days ago with a message about it being available. I've restarted my TiVo and forced a download a few times to no avail. A little frustrated because our Blu-ray is on the fritz and watching Netflix on our Premiere is usually a pain because it freezes up so often and has problems with the subtitles, which I always need to have on. Blerg. Any suggestions?


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

tk488 said:


> Still don't have the new Netflix, even though TiVo greeted us several days ago with a message about it being available. I've restarted my TiVo and forced a download a few times to no avail. A little frustrated because our Blu-ray is on the fritz and watching Netflix on our Premiere is usually a pain because it freezes up so often and has problems with the subtitles, which I always need to have on. Blerg. Any suggestions?


 kmttg can start the new Netflix on your TiVo Premiere.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

moyekj said:


> kmttg can start the new Netflix on your TiVo Premiere.


Though probably dauntingly obtuse for some, it was easier than I expected to do that. It's really nice that it installs all of the other tools that it needs.


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## michael1248 (Feb 14, 2002)

Still don't have the new Netflix app either. Have had the update for quite some time now.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

michael1248 said:


> Still don't have the new Netflix app either. Have had the update for quite some time now.


Did you try any of the things suggested in this post?


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## MaryJ76 (Apr 22, 2004)

While I am happy to see the new app, (especially like seeing the separate accounts like on Roku), I am having trouble with one aspect of watching Netflix on my TiVo. When I accidentally start an episode, I am unable to figure out a way to go back and get the correct episode without having to go back to TiVo central and start all over.

Case in point: When the kids were home at recently, someone used my account to watch Dr. Who. They are now 10 episodes ahead of me. Before I could choose the correct episode that I am on, I accidentally hit the select button to start where one of the kids had left off. I should be able to go back to the Dr. Who screen, but hitting the back button only causes me to rewind the episode I am playing. Can anyone help me? If not, I'm sticking with Roku for Netflix.


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## emeril2k1 (Sep 9, 2004)

The up arrow gets you out of a Netflix show.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

emeril2k1 said:


> The up arrow gets you out of a Netflix show.


That was true of the previous player on Premiere and the similar one that Roamio started out with.


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## shamilian (Mar 27, 2003)

MaryJ76 said:


> While I am happy to see the new app, (especially like seeing the separate accounts like on Roku), I am having trouble with one aspect of watching Netflix on my TiVo. When I accidentally start an episode, I am unable to figure out a way to go back and get the correct episode without having to go back to TiVo central and start all over.
> 
> Case in point: When the kids were home at recently, someone used my account to watch Dr. Who. They are now 10 episodes ahead of me. Before I could choose the correct episode that I am on, I accidentally hit the select button to start where one of the kids had left off. I should be able to go back to the Dr. Who screen, but hitting the back button only causes me to rewind the episode I am playing. Can anyone help me? If not, I'm sticking with Roku for Netflix.


The "zoom" button act as a "go back" button on the premiere.


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## emeril2k1 (Sep 9, 2004)

mikeyts said:


> That was true of the previous player on Premiere and the similar one that Roamio started out with.


Oh, well it used to work on my Premiere, and worked on my Mini yesterday, so I assumed that it didn't change.

Well...I tried it on my Premiere4 with the new Netflix update, and the up arrow still gets you out of a running program and back to a menu.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

emeril2k1 said:


> Oh, well it used to work on my Premiere, and worked on my Mini yesterday, so I assumed that it didn't change.
> 
> Well...I tried it on my Premiere4 with the new Netflix update, and the up arrow still gets you out of a running program and back to a menu.


I was wondering why MaryJ76 was having problems if she had used the old Premiere Netflix player; it wasn't possible to left-arrow out of a playing title with that one either.


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## tailor (Apr 13, 2008)

DVReveler said:


> TiVo Margret Schmidt (@tivodesign)
> 12/9/13, 3:04 PM
> #TiVo Premiere customers who love #Netflix - today is a good day to get on the list for the next update: tivo.com/priority
> 
> Download the official Twitter app here


I am getting a "Problem C133" on my premier and can't connect to Netflix. It has been like that since I tried about an hour ago. Do I need to do anything? How long can I expect tp have no service on Netflix?


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

I had that too. Seems to be a Tivo outage. But it's back up now.


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