# Existing Lifetime Service Suspended



## bpmcbride (Mar 21, 2006)

We have had a lifetime Tivo subscription for a few years; last week we received a message that our service has been suspended. After many calls we are unable to resolve this problem. The last person we spoke to said this is an error many lifetime subscribers are experiencing and the problem needs to be resolved at the corporate level. A week ago the problem was referred to corporate, no resolution. Has anyone else had this problem?


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## mec1991 (Nov 5, 2004)

Nope.

I doubt you have either, but that's just me.


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## bpmcbride (Mar 21, 2006)

mec1991 said:


> Nope.
> 
> I doubt you have either, but that's just me.


Now, why would you say that? Our "LIFETIME" membership has been cancelled by TIVO! I would think that is something that would concern members of this forum - especially if it is happening to others as the last tech we talked to indicated. It could be a snafu that they will fix, as we've been told by TIVO service, but it's been over a week and three calls to TIVO and it is still not fixed.

So back off - there is no justification for accusing us of lying.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

Is it a Series 1 or 2 TiVo? When you go into System Settings, what does it say for Account Status? How did you receive the message that your Lifetime service had been suspended, was it a message on the TiVo, an e-mail, or a phone call?


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## mec1991 (Nov 5, 2004)

bpmcbride said:


> Now, why would you say that?
> 
> So back off - there is no justification for accusing us of lying.


"The last person we spoke to said this is an error many lifetime subscribers are experiencing and the problem needs to be resolved at the corporate level."


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## lajohn27 (Dec 29, 2003)

Does your account status say "Suspended" or "Closed". In your first post you said it was "suspended.." in a subsequent post you said it "cancelled"

There IS a difference.


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## Y-ASK (Aug 17, 2001)

bpmcbride said:


> I would think that is something that would concern members of this forum - especially if it is happening to others as the last tech we talked to indicated.


You are correct! It is of concern so ignore mec1991. Please answer the questions as asked so we can all learn something. Just the facts please.

Y-ASK


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## Netbudda (Mar 3, 2005)

bpmcbride said:


> So back off - there is no justification for accusing us of lying.


Dude welcome to the forum..........you will find a lot of people willing to help you and you will find a lot of people just waiting to attack you......just embrace the first group and ignore the second...simple. Asfar as your problem goes I have never heard of something like that but I'm interested since I have a lifetime sub on one of my Tivos. You can send an email to TivoOpsMg ( [email protected] ) and ask him to look into it. He works for Tivo and he is a valuable member always willing to help.

Later.


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## mick66 (Oct 15, 2004)

Y-ASK said:


> Just the facts please.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

There are two reason I can think of that your lifetime membership would be canceled.... 

1) The unit is a second hand Series 1 unit that was allowed a one time transfer and the original owner called and exercised that right without your knowledge. 

2) Someone has cloned your TSN and now TiVo is seeing more then one unit call in with the same TSN and leaching service. 

Is it possible that either of those are the case here? 

Dan


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## briguymaine (Mar 17, 2004)

mec1991 said:


> Nope.
> 
> I doubt you have either, but that's just me.


  funny stuff


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## jmoak (Jun 20, 2000)

Is it a Series 1 or 2 tivo? When you go into system settings, what does it say for account status? How did you receive the message that your lifetime service had been suspended, was it a message on the tivo, an e-mail, or a phone call? Does your account status say "Suspended" or "Closed"?


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## timr_42 (Oct 14, 2001)

Could it be one of those evaluation units and Tivo noticed it and canceled it?


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## segaily (Aug 3, 2003)

The tivo contract also says they can cancel your service if you are sharing shows on the internet. It would be really interesting if that had happened to someone.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Well I guess this group got BPMCBRIDE to hide..I wish he would answer some of the questions (nice ones) he was asked to help us all. I have 7 lifetime units with no problems that I know of. What does your TiVo web sight say about your unit ?


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

Another possibility is that the "lifetime" wasn't a true product lifetime, but an evaluation or demo machine that TiVo Inc. deemed necessary to terminate.


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## jacques (Jun 2, 2000)

Strange.... I have 4 Series 1 lifetimes and 1 Series 2 lifetime and not a single problem.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Either way, I'd like to know. I'd hate for it to happen to me, and have to *shudder* call TiVo customer service.


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## Netbudda (Mar 3, 2005)

lessd said:


> I have 7 lifetime units with no problems that I know of.


That got to be some kind of record.....


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Is the lifetime using supposed to uplink at least once every 3 or 6 months? I know that the Ts&Cs for MSD say that the quaifying unit has to keep in contact for the other unit(s) to get the discounted rate. Maybe not for just keeping the lifetime active though. 

I wonder what TiVo's reason for this action might be. It would seem that TiVo suspending or canceling the Lifetime would constitute some sort of breach of contract unless there was some action on the part of the subscriber that would warrant it under the contract terms.


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## bpmcbride (Mar 21, 2006)

Okay - first, sorry for not following up quicker on this board. I've been busy because we've spent HOURS on the phone with support people to try to get this straightened out.

First, the answer to some questions:
- Our unit is a TiVo Series 2 DVR that we bought on eBay with a lifetime membership
- We first found out about this when our TiVo gave us a message saying that we had 5 days to ACTIVATE the service.
- The account status said "Not Set Up"

When we called TiVo, they first said that they had no record of our contract even though they had all our contact info on file and correct. They gave us 5 days of "temporary service" during which time they said they would fix the problem. After day 3 I called again and that's when a tech told me they've had this problem before and were working on it, but five days came and went and our service got suspended with no word from TiVo. A new message said that service was suspended and we had to call TiVo to get service. That was when I first posted to this board.

Well, since then we've talked to TiVo a couple of times. Finally we got a really helpful tech supervisor who researched the issue (for real) and then actually called us back several hours later. He said that it appeared that our account had actually been TRANSFERRED to somebody else. We asked how on earth that could happen, and he said that somebody would have to have the serial number on the box and all our contact information including our email address. 

We of course told him that this was not authorized, and after we gave him the serial number of the box he said he would transfer it back to us and give us some more temporary service time until it could go through. In addition, he said he would put a note in our file that the service could not be transferred away from us again without talking to us directly.

As of this morning, the lifetime service has not been restored but we expect it will be soon. We have since changed our email address as an added protection assuming we get the service back.

That's where we stand. Again, sorry about the posting delay.

B McBride


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## jmoak (Jun 20, 2000)

bpmcbride said:


> - Our unit is a TiVo Series 2 DVR that we bought on eBay with a lifetime membership


Oh, jeeze buddy.... I'm so sorry!
I really hope you get it straightened out and it does not turn into another ebay horror story.

Good Luck and we're all rooting for ya!


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

I thought accounts were tied to the box and not the person. How can anybody transfer service (other than the pre-January, 2000 series 1 grandfather clause)?


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## jacques (Jun 2, 2000)

timckelley said:


> I thought accounts were tied to the box and not the person. How can anybody transfer service (other than the pre-January, 2000 series 1 grandfather clause)?


I'd love to know the answer to that also! I'd love being able to transfer lifetime from one of my Series 1 machines when the Series 3 machines come out! And no, I'm not grandfathered, I bought lifetime knowing perfectly well it went with the machine.


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## rookie (Oct 24, 2002)

So you bought it used through eBay...perhaps a little "buyer beware", issue with the seller's integrity, as opposed to a TiVo issue.


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## bpmcbride (Mar 21, 2006)

Thanks for your help jmoak and the help and advice of everyone else who's posted on this thread.

_"I really hope you get it straightened out and it does not turn into another ebay horror story."_

I've done about 150 transactions on eBay over the years, buying and selling, and I have no horror stories at all. We bought this unit about 3 years ago and have had no problems until now. It does appear, given what TiVo has told us most recently, that the previous owner would have to have been involved. But they've told us several conflicting things during this issue. At first they said it was a system problem, and then they said it was a corporate snafu, and now they say it was transferred. I actually asked the first tech I spoke to if it was possible that the account had been illegally transferred and he said no because their system said the the account was never set up in the first place.

So who knows? I hope that, if it was an intentional act, TiVo will push to have the person prosecuted for fraud or theft. But I doubt they'd want to bother. I wonder if I should lodge a legal complaint since if this was a theft it was apparently perpatrated against us?


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## jmoak (Jun 20, 2000)

The best thing to do is what Netbudda suggested,

"You can send an email to TivoOpsMg ( [email protected] ) and ask him to look into it. He works for Tivo and he is a valuable member always willing to help."

Drop him a message. I bet he can help! 
and remember, 
You have a friend in high places.


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## bpmcbride (Mar 21, 2006)

Gosh - I wish I'd never mentioned eBay! Please relax, all you eBay cynics out there. We've had the unit for YEARS now, with no problems. While this may be connected to the previous owner, I can't see how it would make any difference if I'd bought the unit second hand anywhere else.

This is a TiVo problem because once we have the service it should not be able to be transferred out of our name if we STILL HAVE THE BOX. Right?


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## bpmcbride (Mar 21, 2006)

If this does not get straightened out in the next few days, I will definitely send an email to TivoOpsMg. Thanks!


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

bpmcbride said:


> Gosh - I wish I'd never mentioned eBay! Please relax, all you eBay cynics out there. We've had the unit for YEARS now, with no problems. While this may be connected to the previous owner, I can't see how it would make any difference if I'd bought the unit second hand anywhere else.
> 
> This is a TiVo problem because once we have the service it should not be able to be transferred out of our name if we STILL HAVE THE BOX. Right?


Right, I don't know why there are so many people here that are anti-ebay. Ebay is like a lot of places, there are many people who get screwed. A majority of those people should've been able to recognize that the transaction is 'fishy' and not completed it. If you buy from a person who had been a member of ebay for several years (not 6 months) and has a good history of selling things, and you pay with Paypal (using your credit card, not checking account), and carefully read the description and ask questions BEFORE bidding, you'll be fine. I've had no major problems on ebay in the years I've been using them.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

crazywater, it was bought 3 years ago and have been working fine until now. Obviously it had a subscription on it for all this time.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

jacques said:


> I'd love to know the answer to that also! I'd love being able to transfer lifetime from one of my Series 1 machines when the Series 3 machines come out! And no, I'm not grandfathered, I bought lifetime knowing perfectly well it went with the machine.


TiVo supports in store extended warranties. Because of this it's possible that the original owner called them, said the unit was replaced under in store warranty and they allowed the lifetime service to be transferred to the unit he claimed was the replacement. They will only do this for like units, meaning if you had a 40 hour S2 they will only allow you to transfer the service to another 40 hour S2. So you could not use this loophole to transfer lifetime to an S3 unit.

Dan


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

jacques said:


> I'd love to know the answer to that also! I'd love being able to transfer lifetime from one of my Series 1 machines when the Series 3 machines come out! And no, I'm not grandfathered, I bought lifetime knowing perfectly well it went with the machine.


You do have 30 days (from TiVo) to transfer your lifetime to another box (or cancel it). I bought a TiVo on E-Bay with lifetime but the seller had lifetime on a different TiVo he had, He gave me back $299 from the purchase price so I could buy the promised lifetime myself, there are honest sellers on E_Bay.

Les


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## segaily (Aug 3, 2003)

If you want my bet somebody was doing an under warranty transfer and the person at TiVo mistyped the serial number.


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## bpmcbride (Mar 21, 2006)

segaily said:


> If you want my bet somebody was doing an under warranty transfer and the person at TiVo mistyped the serial number.


I think something like that is very possible. If it is the case, TiVo should change the way they handle these types of issues.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

A typo would only work if the person had the OP's email address as well. That is unless the tiVo CSR failed to properly authenticate who he/she was speaking to. That's my guess.


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## moonscape (Jul 3, 2004)

bpmcbride said:


> He said that it appeared that our account had actually been TRANSFERRED to somebody else. We asked how on earth that could happen, and he said that somebody would have to have the serial number on the box and all our contact information including our email address.


this makes no sense. since you've had the machine for three years with no problem, it's counter-intuitive to believe the seller would go to the trouble to tranfer ownership of a machine s/he doesn't have. what would s/he gain without the machine in their possession?

this sounds more like an odd tivo glich of some sort.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

moonscape said:


> what would s/he gain without the machine in their possession?


s/he could gain lifetime service on a _different_ machine in their possession.


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## Mavrick22 (Feb 7, 2006)

dgh said:


> s/he could gain lifetime service on a _different_ machine in their possession.


And then sell it on EBay and pull the same scam over and over again.


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## lajohn27 (Dec 29, 2003)

A typo is highly unlikely. TIVO serial numbers have to match a certain algorhythm. The chances of changing just one numeral/letter and happening upon another match to the algorhythm is highly unlikely - not impossible - just highly highly unlikely.

J


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## jacques (Jun 2, 2000)

lessd said:


> You do have 30 days (from TiVo) to transfer your lifetime to another box (or cancel it). I bought a TiVo on E-Bay with lifetime but the seller had lifetime on a different TiVo he had, He gave me back $299 from the purchase price so I could buy the promised lifetime myself, there are honest sellers on E_Bay.
> 
> Les


I think that may be if you purchase a new machine and a subscription. These are machines that I've had quite a while and I've actually gotten my moneys worth out of the lifetime subscription.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

I would think glitch in the system, but this is the only report of this and if it was happening to others there would definitely be more reports in the forum.

The whole thing is still odd.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

There have been others reported over the years, but I'm surprised at how low the rate of incidence is (or at least as reported here). The old: ebay the lifetimed TiVo, then claim it was replaced under an extended warrantee just seems too easy to exploit for it to only be happening a couple of times a year


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

dgh, I think you're right, but there's a clear case of fraud when it happens and an easy-to-follow paper trail, so most scammers would stay away from that trick.

The best defense when purchasing an eBay unit with Product Lifetime is to have the unit transferred to your name as soon as possible by calling Customer Support.

Best regards,
Stephen


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## mec1991 (Nov 5, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> The whole thing is still odd.


I'm still calling shenanigans.


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## bpmcbride (Mar 21, 2006)

Well, I did a manual connection to TiVo this morning to update our status, and we still don't have our lifetime service back. It still says "Internal Testing" as our account status, which means we are still under the temporary service that they granted us. I believe it runs out on Sunday.

Thanks for your confidence in our integrity, mec1991.

By the way, we did transfer the lifetime membership immediately when we got the unit some years ago (as TiVoOpsMgr recommends) , and it was a smooth process. As I said before, we've had no problems with this unit for years until we got the "Must Activate" message out of the blue earlier this month. It seemed (as still seems) awfully coincidental to us when we started researching this forum and realized that this happened right at the time that TiVo is making major changes to their Lifetime Service product.

I'll keep this board posted on our status.


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## mec1991 (Nov 5, 2004)

bpmcbride said:


> I'll keep this board posted on our status.


Please do. I, for one, can't wait to see the outcome.


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## mec1991 (Nov 5, 2004)

Still waiting...


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## bpmcbride (Mar 21, 2006)

Update: 
Today is the last day of our temporary service and it appears that the issues is still not resolved. I am pessimistic, but perhaps they will get it worked out today. If not, I am sure it means more hours on the line with tech support <sigh>.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Unless TiVo has gone to the authorities about this because they found fraud of some kind I don't see why they can't give you the history of that TSN, first activated XXX date by Mr. D then on yyy date Xfer. ownership to Mr. G etc. If there were two units with the same TSN (by fraud or TiVo error) and one person had the unit fixed by replacement than the lifetime would come off both units. This should be easy for TiVo to figure out.


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## Okeemike (Apr 24, 2002)

For what it's worth, I had this same issue, but it was with my DSR6000 DTivo. As I recall, the issue had to do with DirecTV swapping out the DSS cards or something. I never really understood the issue, but I somehow got cancelled...strange stuff.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

timckelley said:


> I thought accounts were tied to the box and not the person. How can anybody transfer service (other than the pre-January, 2000 series 1 grandfather clause)?


What this grandfather clause and how do you know if you have it?


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Johncv said:


> What this grandfather clause and how do you know if you have it?


Customers who bought lifetime service for their Series 1 standalone TiVo before January 20, 2000, are eligible for a one-time transferral of lifetime status to a new Series 2 (or later) standalone box (not a DirecTV TiVo).


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## mec1991 (Nov 5, 2004)

bpmcbride said:


> Update:
> Today is the last day of our temporary service and it appears that the issues is still not resolved. I am pessimistic, but perhaps they will get it worked out today. If not, I am sure it means more hours on the line with tech support <sigh>.


Looks like you have been on the phone for about 3 days...


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## rODbegbie (Sep 13, 2001)

I've been hit by this too. My Series 2 box that I bought directly from TiVo many years back has suddenly decided that its Lifetime subscription was cancelled.

I'm getting a Account Status of "8: Closed" and a service level of "H: 092306".

A call to TiVo support seemed to get me an upgrade to 7.2.2, but no resolution of the problem. Thankfully, this is just the spare that we have in our living room -- If my wife was missing Survivor, there'd be hell to pay!

Rod.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Question: if a series suddenly becomes unsubbed will it stop recording? Or will the stuff that was in the To Do List at the time of loss of sub still record, and will the two weeks of guide data that was there still be usable? And can you still schedule recordings of shows that exists in those two weeks of guide data? I'm thinking that if this is true, there won't be as urgent a need to get the box resubbed so quickly.


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## rODbegbie (Sep 13, 2001)

You can still watch the shows that have been recorded, but you can't set it to record anything else.

So it really, really sucks.


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## MurrayJimW (Apr 21, 2004)

This has happened to me as well. 

This is on a series one that I have owned since it was new. I actually got lifetime on it when purchased (April 2000) then transferred the service to a series 2 after they came out (they ran a limited time offer for this). I purchased lifetime for it again to be used at a second home on March 7, 2004. It has been working flawlessly since then up until March 22, 2006. On March 22, I got a pre Tivo central message that the account was closed. I immediately forced several calls to no avail. I then called Tivo and was told they would invesigate and they provided me with evaluation service for about 5 days. The box has now gone closed again and I have had another conversation with Tivo where they said they were still working the problem. This is not someone's fantasy or an Ebay thing. There is some problem at Tivo and apparently they're having a bit of trouble figuring it out. I told the last CSR just to send me a Beta series 3 and all would be forgiven, but so far nothing's shown up....hey...we can hope can't we.


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## jjamezz (Jul 19, 2005)

hat's just crazy stuff!

Here's hoping the rest of us lifers are safe.... and the this particular problem is resolved!

I did laugh though.... " I doubt you have either... " it's just the pessimist in me that was wondering at the same time I read... anyway... good posts from good people make me feel good... others... I usually just read on.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

MurrayJimW said:


> I actually got lifetime on it when purchased (2001 I think) then transferred the service to a series 2 after they came out (they ran a limited time offer for this). I purchased lifetime for it again to be used at a second home on March 7, 2004.


Why would you buy lifetime service for the same box twice?


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## MurrayJimW (Apr 21, 2004)

Arcady said:


> Why would you buy lifetime service for the same box twice?


I know...seems odd. It was for my beach house. I wanted series 2's at home for HMO, but that really didn't matter down at the beach. This box was laying around doing nothing so I went ahead and made it a lifer for use down there. I probably should have just picked up another series 2, but I took it down there on a whim and was monthly for quite some time before I got tired of paying every month and switched it.


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## MurrayJimW (Apr 21, 2004)

Just checked this box again.....now back to 4:Tivo Internal Testing............


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## sf_tim (Apr 6, 2006)

I'm having the same problem on my Phillips Series 1 unit. I am the original owner of this TiVo, and I have had a Lifetime Subscription on this box since Dec. 1999. All of a sudden, my account was deactivated on Monday of this week. I have tried rebooting, power cycling, forcing a daily phone call, and repeating guided setup -- but nothing seems to fix this problem. The TiVo website and customer service have confirmed that I do have a Lifetime Subscription. They are blaming the problem on the fact that I put in an extra harddrive 4 years ago -- which has never caused a problem. Customer Service is telling me that I have to call Phillips to get this resolved.


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## mkingman (Aug 30, 2000)

This just happened on my Philips series 1 as well. This is a box that I bought new and it has had lifetime on it forever. The account status is currently "8: Closed".


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## rODbegbie (Sep 13, 2001)

This is interesting -- My account was originally on a Philips Series 1 also, but then I switched to a Series 2 when TiVo offered the "upgrade and take your lifetime with you" deal. I wonder if this is the common thread...


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## jacques (Jun 2, 2000)

I have 3 of the Phillips series 1 machines and 1 Sony series 1 machine. I'm keeping an eye out, but this hasn't happened to me yet. I am wondering though, the couple people who posted here, it sounds like they have lifetime subscriptions that are old enough to be grandfathered, whereas my lifetime subscriptions aren't that old ( though they have paid for themselves ).

Is this just happening with pre-2000 lifetime subscriptions? Some quirk in the database as they try and keep track of the people they've really lost money on?


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## rODbegbie (Sep 13, 2001)

jacques said:


> Is this just happening with pre-2000 lifetime subscriptions? Some quirk in the database as they try and keep track of the people they've really lost money on?


I think I took out my lifetime subscription in mid-2001.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

sf_tim said:


> I'm having the same problem on my Phillips Series 1 unit. I am the original owner of this TiVo, and I have had a Lifetime Subscription on this box since Dec. 1999. All of a sudden, my account was deactivated on Monday of this week. I have tried rebooting, power cycling, forcing a daily phone call, and repeating guided setup -- but nothing seems to fix this problem. The TiVo website and customer service have confirmed that I do have a Lifetime Subscription. They are blaming the problem on the fact that I put in an extra harddrive 4 years ago -- which has never caused a problem. Customer Service is telling me that I have to call Phillips to get this resolved.


What does your TiVo account say for that TiVo, the Hard Drive is not part of your account information. If the unit is listed can you re-name the unit on the web sight. If not then the unit is not in your name for some reason. (I know the series 1 name does not show up on the unit itself but will show up in your TiVo account). TiVo can send a code message to your TiVo that only you could see if the TiVo is in your possession. The other possibility is two TiVos with the same TSN number, when I was first looking into TiVo in 2001 their was a web sight that offered to buy your lifetime TSN number from you (without the unit) you then were to dump your unit that you sold your lifetime on..go figure that one out as I thought it was some scam I could not understand.


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## mkingman (Aug 30, 2000)

jacques said:


> Is this just happening with pre-2000 lifetime subscriptions?


Mine isn't a grandfathered unit. The activation date on it is Jan 24, 2002.


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## jacques (Jun 2, 2000)

Scratch the grandfather theory...

I guess I'll just have to keep a close eye on my units. Lord only knows that if I have to shuffle around my season passes to other units to work around a whacko subscription it might take hours....


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## sf_tim (Apr 6, 2006)

My TiVo account info says: (DVR Name and Service Number Masked):
DVR ZZZZ 000-XXXX-YYYY-ZZZZ TiVo Lifetime Service Lifetime Service N/A 

The message I am getting on the System Information Page is:
TiVo Account status: 8: Closed, call 1-877-367-8486


I jusrtt got off the phone with Phillips Support (which TiVo Support told me to call). They tell me the problem is on the TiVo side -- the "8: Closed..." message comes directly from the TiVo servers and I have to call TiVo Support again to get this resolved. Aarrgggg..... 

4 Days and no new TiVo recordings and counting....


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## sf_tim (Apr 6, 2006)

And to finish answering lessd's question -- I was able to rename the DVR on the Manage My Account section on the TiVo website. So it now says:

DVR Name TiVo Service Number Payment Plan Account Status Settings

SA Series 1 BR 000-XXXX-YYYY-ZZZZ TiVo Lifetime Service Lifetime Service N/A


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

Folks, sorry to hear about this issue. If you're affected, can you please send me an e-mail with your 15-digit TiVo Service Number from System Information and the date the problem began?

I will do two things:
1. Give you temporary service while we investigate.
2. Make sure we fix this problem.

We apologize for the inconvenience.

Best regards,
Stephen


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

segaily said:


> The tivo contract also says they can cancel your service if you are sharing shows on the internet. It would be really interesting if that had happened to someone.


I share shows, but from my two Replays, not my Tivo.


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## sf_tim (Apr 6, 2006)

Thanks Stephen... I sent you my TSN.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

sf_tim said:


> And to finish answering lessd's question -- I was able to rename the DVR on the Manage My Account section on the TiVo website. So it now says:
> 
> DVR Name TiVo Service Number Payment Plan Account Status Settings
> 
> SA Series 1 BR 000-XXXX-YYYY-ZZZZ TiVo Lifetime Service Lifetime Service N/A


The unit is in your name with lifetime, TiVo has the problem..hopefully the Ops Mgr will get it fixed. (could the mother board be bad and send back to TiVo an incorrect TSN ?)


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

Nope, this is an account issue, not a hardware issue. We're investigating. Apologies for anyone who is affected, although this appears to be an issue affecting only a small handful of customers.


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## HTH (Aug 28, 2000)

I guess I'll be safe; though I kept my Philipses, I resubbed them as monthly. I transferred lifetime to two Series2 units because they require it; a Series1 can still record without service, so lifetime had more value on the Series2.


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## sf_tim (Apr 6, 2006)

Stephen:

Thanks for taking on this problem. At least for now, the issue seems to have been solved while I was at work today. My Account Status on System Information is "5: Product Lifetime Service", and my TiVo started recording items on the Todo list starting at noon today. I appreciate the help.

Tim


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## ZildjianB (Oct 11, 2003)

Well, add me to the list of users experiencing a loss of Lifetime Service. We have an old 2400 Series2 unit that has never been owned by anyone else, and has had Lifetime Service on it since Day 1.

TiVoOpsMgr, my account info should be in your inbox. Any help is appreciated.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

All these lifetime losers. What's causing all this? I have two lifetimes myself. I hope I can hang onto them.


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

Thanks to folks who wrote me. We're still investigating. We show that about 56 customers were affected by this issue, so the vast majority of customers don't have anything to worry about. Our apologies to those who were affected.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> Thanks to folks who wrote me. We're still investigating. We show that about 56 customers were affected by this issue, so the vast majority of customers don't have anything to worry about. Our apologies to those who were affected.


Wow. With only 56 affected, I would have expected less to post to this thread than have, since most TiVoites don't know about TCF.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

timckelley said:


> All these lifetime losers.


I think that's funny.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

That's pretty awesome - not that people are losing (temporarily, I hope!) their lifetime subs, but that Tivo has someone that is willing to go to bat and solve these problems for such a small number of people.

Just this month I was one of a handful of customers that added a Tivo to their account and in the process lost our ability to schedule programs via Tivo online. Stephen (and his people, I assume) jumped in and solved the problem in a few days. I even got emails from Stephen on a Saturday telling me what was going on and asking for some more info to help sort things out.

It's very rare to have companies go to these lengths to serve their customers (which is a shame). GO TIVO!!! 3 cheers for Stephen!!! :up: :up: :up:


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

If you give good detail to TiVo about any real TiVo problem they will jump on it, someone called me once on a problem I had (to ask me some questions), that was great.


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## spppage (Mar 30, 2005)

So, after bashing the OP and then having the problem turn out to be legitimate, where did mec1991 dissapear to?


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

spppage said:


> So, after bashing the OP and then having the problem turn out to be legitimate, where did mec1991 dissapear to?


He was right. I think people basically misunderstand the process and assume, we _know_ we made a mistake, and slink off to some cave to lick our wounds in cases like this.

But actually, when a superior person says or does something that may _seem_ to some others, or most others, or even all others to be a mistake, that simply means that the world does not yet understand the superior insight. Though it may seem now, for the moment, that the OP was legit, there may come a time when he gets a traffic ticket or extracts video or something, and the original point, that this guy was somehow smarmy, will be vindicated.


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## TiVoEvan74 (Sep 11, 2004)

Redux, you're kidding right? 

There are couple of folks around here who routinely chime in early on legitimate questions with sarcastic, know-it-all responses. Basically, they offer not so humorous put downs veiled as help. Then, when it turns out that they mis-read or mis-interpreted the OP's questions--and that their advice or wise cracks are simply off base--they shift arguments, always trying to make it look as if they were right all along. Glad this time that the person who questioned the OP's integrity simply left the playing field, although an apology really was in order. 

I feel for the newcomers who have to deal with this-- fortunately, it's rare and most everybody else is incredibly friendly and helpful.


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## MurrayJimW (Apr 21, 2004)

Many thanks to Stephen. The problem on my box is now resolved. The info screen is back to lifetime and a rep from Tivo actually called over the weekend twice to check on it and to explain to me how to force a daily call (certainly not needed but much appreciated). Once again, Tivo's customer service is tops. Thanks again Stephen!!

Jim Murray


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## mec1991 (Nov 5, 2004)

spppage said:


> So, after bashing the OP and then having the problem turn out to be legitimate, where did mec1991 dissapear to?


Still here....

And I still have my doubts about the OP, but as I said before, that's just me.


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## Crrink (Sep 3, 2002)

mec1991 said:


> Still here....
> 
> And I still have my doubts about the OP, but as I said before, that's just me.


Why would you still have doubts about the OP after TivoOpsMgr verified the problem, verified that it is affecting 50 some odd TiVo owners, and stated that TiVo is working to fix it?


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

The problem with Ebay is that it's so big and also anonymous, so it's easy for scammers to operate. The law of percentages says that there will be a large number of bad experiences because of the massive number of transactions! Personally, I won't but from Ebay, but that's just me. I probably have no more chance of getting ripped off than anywhere else.

On the TiVo problem, it does sound like a possible scam, but after three years, I'm more inclined to think it's a mistake. It's easy to accuse someone when something goes wrong (as in "Who stole my pen?").

If I were you, I'd contact Steve (TiVoOpsMg). From what I've seen on here, he gets a lot done - and fast! Certainly a great contact to have.

Oh and BTW, ignore the jerks and trolls and PLEASE don't get put off by them. They should adhere to the old addage "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all!"


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

MurrayJimW said:


> Many thanks to Stephen. The problem on my box is now resolved. The info screen is back to lifetime and a rep from Tivo actually called over the weekend twice to check on it and to explain to me how to force a daily call (certainly not needed but much appreciated). Once again, Tivo's customer service is tops. Thanks again Stephen!!
> 
> Jim Murray


So what caused the problem?


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## philwojo (May 16, 2004)

Well it appears I might have this problem also, my daily call will not complete and says it fails "getting account status".

I hope this is a quick and easy fix. And I have already contact Steve.



Phil


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## gorba916 (Nov 28, 2005)

In our digital age "lifetime" is a relative term; subject to fees and conditions.


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## m_jonis (Jan 3, 2002)

Well, as for selling stuff on eBay, I can tell you that transferring a lifetime ownership is NOT simple.

I sold my Series 2 w/Lifetime on eBay and transferring the service was a frickin' nightmare.

First, you have to call Tivo (can't do it online). 45 minutes on hold, finally get someone and I give them all the information for the NEW individual (he even had a Tivo account for a diff. unit he had, so they "easily" tied everything in).

ha!

Buyer emails and says he called to activate and they didn't know anything about anything, and he went on line to activate it and it doesn't show up.

I call Tivo again, spend about 30 minutes on hold, finally get someone, they 'fix" the problem after about 10 minutes, but then are unable to get the "online" activation to work. 15 more minutes on hold and they "think" they got it.

A few days later, the poor buyer was finally able to activate under his name.

Apparently there's at LEAST two databases that the account information is in (one that's online, one that's not, and then there's the Tivo Central which apparently can never be changed/edited because I still see the "old" DVR AND I can see what the new owner has named it--lovely).


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

Lifetime transfer is NOT activation. Seller doesn't have to do anything. Just have the buyer call TiVo.

Yes, the unit remains in your account because you're the "billing owner".


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

c3 said:


> Yes, the unit remains in your account because you're the "billing owner".


That makes sense to me. I like the idea that I should be able to log on and see my billing history - every payment I've ever made to TiVo.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

c3 said:


> Yes, the unit remains in your account because you're the "billing owner".


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3920896&&#post3920896



TiVoOpsMgr said:


> Because Billing History needs to be avalaible for every service order you placed, what you're describing is the intended behavior. You will always see all units on the Overview even if you are not the current user of that unit.
> 
> But, as you see, other functions (such as naming, TiVo Central Online) are not available if you are only the Sold-To party for an order.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

m_jonis said:


> Well, as for selling stuff on eBay, I can tell you that transferring a lifetime ownership is NOT simple.
> 
> I sold my Series 2 w/Lifetime on eBay and transferring the service was a frickin' nightmare.
> 
> ...


I've done this a number of times - the longest I EVER spent on the phone was 10 minutes. Pretty clear you got a CSR that hadn't done this before. Far easier for you to do than the new owner. If, as you say, the new owner ALREADY had an account, it should've taken about 90 seconds.

As for the "Manage my account" screen, you'll always see all the DVRs that you've activated, even those that have been transferred. That's how Tivo maintains the billing history for a given unit. Of course, you can only change info on the boxes that remain owned under your account.


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## MurrayJimW (Apr 21, 2004)

timckelley said:


> So what caused the problem?


I'm afraid that's for the folks at Tivo to either divulge or not as they see fit. I personally have not been told what the root cause of the problem was and don't really expect to be. I may have used poor word choice in my previous post when I said "the problem on my box was fixed" as the actual problems lies within Tivo's servers. They are the only ones capable of either giving or removing a subscription as far as I know.



philwojo said:


> Well it appears I might have this problem also, my daily call will not complete and says it fails "getting account status".
> 
> I hope this is a quick and easy fix. And I have already contact Steve.
> 
> Phil


Your problem is not similar to what I was experiencing. Calls completed fine and there was never any problem you could observe on the calls. It was simply a case of the account being closed the same as if you had quit paying your bill on a monthly. The only odd thing was that this should never happen to a lifetime sub.

Jim


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## philwojo (May 16, 2004)

Jim you are correct, my problem was different, but it did seem to me at first that it was similar.

I contact Stephen and he suggested I use dial-up instead of my broadband connection and it completed fine then. I then went back to broadband and it was fine again.

The only strange thing I had was to get the broadband to work again I had to reboot the TIVO and then when I did that the TIVO got a mind of it's own. It would bounce through stations, try to delete shows, try to do just about anything and it was bouncing all over the place. It lasted for about 1 minute, then just stopped.

I then tired to reboot the TIVO again as one of my hacks had not loaded (tivowebplus) and I wanted to reboot to try to get it to work. The same crazy things happened again for about a minute, then stopped, and I still don't know what caused that to happen.

Any idea?
Phil


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## ZildjianB (Oct 11, 2003)

It seems that our Series 2 TiVo has reverted back to the 'Account Closed' state from the '4: Internal Testing' state that TiVoOpsMgr had it set to two weeks ago. So, I guess whatever TiVo tried to do in the meantime to fix this problem did not work on our box/account. I tried emailing TiVoOpsMgr (Stephen) about this yesterday (4/24) and am awaiting a response. Does this problem remain unresolved for anyone else that was experiencing it?


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

What a raw deal. I hope they figure this out before it ever attacks my boxes.


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## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

ZildjianB said:


> It seems that our Series 2 TiVo has reverted back to the 'Account Closed' state from the '4: Internal Testing' state that TiVoOpsMgr had it set to two weeks ago. So, I guess whatever TiVo tried to do in the meantime to fix this problem did not work on our box/account. I tried emailing TiVoOpsMgr (Stephen) about this yesterday (4/24) and am awaiting a response. Does this problem remain unresolved for anyone else that was experiencing it?


I had this happen to my Series 1 several weeks ago. I called Customer support, they gave me a case number and temporarily assigned the account status "4: Internal Testing". They then sent a note to their accounts people to investigate and fix and two days later it was be fixed.

My guess is you will have somewhat better success if you have your problem identified with a case number, as compared to trying to communicate via email.


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## ZildjianB (Oct 11, 2003)

This issue has been tracked via a case number since Day 1. I called earlier today to follow up on it, and after being promised that this issue would be resolved today within two hours b/c they had elevated it to "Level 3", TiVo shot yet another blank and my box still believes its account has been closed (although TiVo Central Online shows the correct status).

Oh well, I guess we'll try again tomorrow........


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

Sometimes it takes a while for the online status to be propagated to all servers and then to your box. Force a call later tonight or tomorrow before calling customer service again.


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## funtoupgrade (Mar 15, 2005)

Agree whole heartedly with last poster regarding eBay. If you're continually getting screwed on eBay then you don't know what you doing and should avoid it. If you follow the advice above you will be fine.


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## mec1991 (Nov 5, 2004)

funtoupgrade said:


> If you're continually getting screwed on eBay then you don't know what you doing and should avoid it.


Amen to that.

I'm too lazy to read this whole thread, but did the OP ever come back and thank TiVo for working to fix the problem?


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## Ripped Off (Apr 26, 2006)

I just received an email for the new box- encouraging me to buy the new box. When I first bought TIVO, they were very nice and offered either the lifetime choice or the monthly choice (maybe annyal) for fees. I naturally chose the lifetime.

Now that the new box is out, not only is the lifetime fee available to the new box of purchase, but the lifetime is not even allowable to me if I replace the existing box with a new one. I feel RIPPED OFF by Tivo. There was absolutely no warning given to me as a customer at the time of my original purchase that this "livetime" fee wold ONLY apply to the original box. As a consumer who is buying a technology product, I assumed this would apply to upgrades in the product that came over the years. NO, NO, NO says Tivo now - and further, they told me that they no longer offer lifetime payment of fees on their products.

I feel scammed, set up, ripped off, and a victim of willful misconduct. What a way to treat your original customer who helped Tivo gain their success. At a minimum, Tivo should refund me for the misleading lifetime fee. I am sure they have burried somewhere in their fine print that they have the right to pull off this scam, but to actually go through with it is unbelievable.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Ripped Off said:


> I just received an email for the new box- encouraging me to buy the new box. When I first bought TIVO, they were very nice and offered either the lifetime choice or the monthly choice (maybe annyal) for fees. I naturally chose the lifetime.
> 
> Now that the new box is out, not only is the lifetime fee available to the new box of purchase, but the lifetime is not even allowable to me if I replace the existing box with a new one. I feel RIPPED OFF by Tivo. There was absolutely no warning given to me as a customer at the time of my original purchase that this "livetime" fee wold ONLY apply to the original box. As a consumer who is buying a technology product, I assumed this would apply to upgrades in the product that came over the years. NO, NO, NO says Tivo now - and further, they told me that they no longer offer lifetime payment of fees on their products.
> 
> I feel scammed, set up, ripped off, and a victim of willful misconduct. What a way to treat your original customer who helped Tivo gain their success. At a minimum, Tivo should refund me for the misleading lifetime fee. I am sure they have burried somewhere in their fine print that they have the right to pull off this scam, but to actually go through with it is unbelievable.


I am not going to take the time to answer this as TiVo has made it quite clear about lifetime IT IS THE BOX ONLY


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## TiVoEvan74 (Sep 11, 2004)

Don't you have 30 days to change your mind? Or has that passed already?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

TiVoEvan74 said:


> Don't you have 30 days to change your mind? Or has that passed already?


Yes you still have 30 days to get a full refund an any service and/hardware you purchase from TiVo but after that you own it.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Ripped Off said:


> INow that the new box is out, not only is the lifetime fee available to the new box of purchase, but the lifetime is not even allowable to me if I replace the existing box with a new one. I feel RIPPED OFF by Tivo. There was absolutely no warning given to me as a customer at the time of my original purchase that this "livetime" fee wold ONLY apply to the original box.


Boy, talk about beating an old, dead horse.

Perhaps you should vent your anger against those that neglected to teach you how to read. This has been PAINFULLY CLEAR in all the Tivo TOS and related documentation for, let's see ... about SIX YEARS NOW!

You're not going to find much sympathy here.


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## NewbieInTheATL (Dec 15, 2002)

mec1991 said:


> Amen to that.
> 
> I'm too lazy to read this whole thread, but did the OP ever come back and thank TiVo for working to fix the problem?


Wow, so you're actually acknowledging that the OP did in fact have a problem. That's big of you.


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## mec1991 (Nov 5, 2004)

NewbieInTheATL said:


> Wow, so you're actually acknowledging that the OP did in fact have a problem. That's big of you.


 

Apparently my use of sarcasm is failing me.


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## NewbieInTheATL (Dec 15, 2002)

mec1991 said:


> Apparently my use of sarcasm is failing me.


Well, personally, I think an apology is in order. But that's just me.


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## Joeg180 (Jun 1, 2003)

Where has rippedoff been? Deep space? Under a rock?


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## mec1991 (Nov 5, 2004)

NewbieInTheATL said:


> Well, personally, I think an apology is in order. But that's just me.


Point and match to you, sir! 

It was just his attitude that set me off. I can be very defensive about things I care about - my children, my Mac, my TiVo, etc.

I'm wrong a lot of times; so what the hey, I apologize to the OP and hope your TiVo is working properly.

Peace.


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## NewbieInTheATL (Dec 15, 2002)

mec1991 said:


> Point and match to you, sir!
> 
> It was just his attitude that set me off. I can be very defensive about things I care about - my children, my Mac, my TiVo, etc.
> 
> ...


 



Peace indeed! :up:


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## Ripped Off (Apr 26, 2006)

Nice of the writer to get so frustrated to the point of actually saying he doesn't have the time to discuss whe he hopes becomes a dead issue.

This is NOT a dead issue. 

THE TIVO SCAM IS ALIVE AND KICKING RIGHT NOW!

Like I said in my original post, TIVO can only take credit for cramming fine print into their contract and then hide behind it when its time to sting the customer. Lifetime to most means lifetime - regardless of what model. TIVO scammed me once by offering "lifetime service" then denying this service for an upgraded box. The way I look at TIVO is the same way I look at any other company that has scammed me in my opinion.... If they scam you once, there is a very, very good chance that they will SCAM YOU AGAIN. I prefer to not have TIVO SCAM ME AGAIN.

By the way, "peace" is found in those customers who do not feel like they have been wronged. Personally, I feel deeply that TIVO SCAMMED ME. There is no need to try and explain how long this thread has been out there already, or there is no reason to try and convince me that I have not been scammed by TIVO. Along the same "legal" lines and time frame, FRAUD has a starting point of date of discovery. I have only recently (2 days ago) been made awayre of what I personally feel is a TIVO SCAM of leading customers to think that their "lifetime" fees paid applied to their producrs.

Here is some food for thought: Why did't TIVO call it a "Limited Lifetime" fee? That would have been a REAL DISCLOSURE. No sir, TIVO decided to call it "livetime" and burry the "limited" in the fine print - a classic move of a COMPANY THAT WANTS TO SCAM ITS CUSTOMERS BY NOT MAKING A FULL AND COMPLETE DISCLOSURE.

The fact that TIVO now no longer offers this "LIMITED LIFETIME" SCAM reinforces the fact that perhaps TIVO put themselves in a hot little seat and could not stand the heat. Now that the fire is out of countrol from their burning match, rather than please customers, all they can do is turn a cold shoulder. Swell - really appreciate the customer care, TIVO.

Its huge flaws in the big bad giant like these that bring welcomed competition that I look forward to.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

You just Ripped Off my time for reading your nonsense. TiVo has been using the term "product lifetime" for years.


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## potters2643 (Feb 17, 2006)

Ripped Off, here is the way you need to look at the problem. YOU made a CHOICE not to read the fine print, therefore, you screwed yourself. You can NOT blame a company because YOU made a CHOICE not the read. Evidently, your time is so valuable that you do not need to read the fine print, leaving yourself in the problem you are in now. Now, assuming your time is as valuable as it must seem that you do not need to read the fine print, the $300 you laid down for lifetime service is a drop in the bucket. Do you read the fine print when you buy a car? Sign a lease? Take out a mortgage? Buy insurance? The entire purpose of the fine print is to lay everything on the table so that folks like yourself can read it, and then make a CHOICE as to whether to put your money on the table. You ripped yourself off, sir, this is a self inflicted wound. The smartest thing you could do is is delete this posting account and start over. Or, get yourself a lawyer and see how far you get with this in court. I suggest, however, that when you sign the contract with the lawyer, you better read the fine print.

-Me

(and it's "Lifetime", but you won't read this part, your time is too valuable)


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Rippedoff, you're a bloody moron - complaining about something that was written in black and white right in front of your face. I guess your time was too important to actually read and agreement that you enter into.

That said, where are you going to throw your Tivo hardware, so that I may go scoop it up?


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Riped Off

I am sorry you got confused on the lifetime TiVo offered. Still since you bought lifetime you got a fantastic deal. If you pay $12.95/month (cheapest you can get when you buy your first TiVo) in two years you have paid as much as your lifetime subscription. So once your box (which you can RESELL with lifetime) passes two year you are saving money.

Now you can not say TiVo tricked you or mislead you because it is stated in the fine print and if they tricked you they tricked us all and the BBB would be involved and TiVo would have not lasted the time it has. I am sure you are not the only one confused by lifetime but what is done is done. What I may recommend though is if you don't want to keep your box that is already paid for is to sell it here or on eBay You can easily sell it for cost or even for a profit. Then you can go to the cable DVR and pay a smaller monthly fee with a "free" box but also a lot less features.

Einselen


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Ripped Off said:


> Its huge flaws in the big bad giant like these that bring welcomed competition that I look forward to.


It's posts like this that make me say "TROLL".

Sorry you failed reading in third grade.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Wow. Ripped Off has really pushed some buttons here.


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## TiVoEvan74 (Sep 11, 2004)

Doesn't the TiVo web site explain clearly-- in regular sized print-- what lifetime is? 

On the other hand, I can understand the confusion-- just rummage these boards and see how many had to *learn* exactly what TiVo's lifetime means.

I also don't defend the use of fine print at all... it is often designed to obscure matters, even its near illegibility makes it hard to read (and if one is conspiratorial designed to induce people to ignore reading it), and it often contains key qualifications that should be put into the main document (and are buried in footnotes, fine print so that attention isn't on them!). 

And even in the main text, there can be extraordinary convoluted legalese that should be rewritten in English. No, I'm not sympathetic to burying qualifiers in fine print-- and in the rush-rush of house buying, mortgages, etc. one signs dozens of forms and expects, because they are traditional documents that supposedly have been reviewed by one's lawyer, that they are OK. Plus, what's one supposed to do? Balk and destroy a deal because one is aware there is potentially an issue or that the legal language actually wasn't written well?

I even had to correct our lawyer on some points and add provisions added... but that's an awful lot to expect of a mere buyer of a TiVo device and wouldn't work anyway!


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## Joeg180 (Jun 1, 2003)

He is going to continue to rant becasue he feels that TiVo scammed him.

Put your unit up for sale and try to recoup some of your $$ or just chalk it up to experience and move on.


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## lajohn27 (Dec 29, 2003)

Yeah.. total troll bait -- to come on this angry with just two posts.. I'm surprised there no mention of stock data.

Seriously tho - the issue of what lifetime means is in fairly decent sized print in a number of locations.. and has been a settled issue since 1999. To miss it, is to WANT to miss it.

And your post glosses over a very important fact. 

It was not called "LIFETIME SERVICE" in TIVO press materials, or on their website. You are wrong about that.

For years, the service was officially called "PRODUCT LIFETIME SERVICE".. it was listed that way on the TIVO website.. and that was how it was referred to in almost all printed materials. The name of the service was not in small print.. nor was it hidden. 

It was called PRODUCT LIFETIME SERVICE. Hard to misunderstand what that means. And if you were confused by it - that would have been your cue to find out before purchasing.

When you called to activate they would say "You wish activate your box with product lifetime? I can help you with that.. " 

Product Lifetime is just that.. the lifetime of the electronic product involved.

J


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## potters2643 (Feb 17, 2006)

TivoEvan - The fine print is not written that way so that it hides anything from people, and the legalese exists because people like ripped off would use any loophole found to get out of a contract. You think that companies would spend money hiring lawyers to write these things for no reason? Of course not. That writing exists because of people like ripped off, who will look for any reason to be a victim. It's part of the culture of victims in this country. People so busy trying to find ways they are getting screwed they let life pass them by. I have not one ounce of sympathy for anyone who does not read the fine print, that is a choice you make yourself. It is not written so small as to be unreadable, I guarantee any fine print you get, if you request it, can be presented to you in larger font. Laziness does not exempt one from the constraints they place upon themselves when they CHOOSE not to read the fine print. Frankly, if someone signs, clicks, or passes over the fine print, they have sealed their own fate. You don't like what's in the fine print? Vote with your wallet, not your complaints. Only one of those votes is noticed.

You want sympathy because you made a poor choice? Better look in the dictionary between S**t and syphillis, because you'll find none here. (directed at ripped off)

and yes, I write this with the full understanding that ripped was complete troll bait.


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## TiVo Steve (Nov 8, 2005)

I picked up a used Series 1 Sony SVR-2000 with a lifetime subscription on it, plugged it in and it showed Account Status 5: Lifetime. Then I did the guided setup and it changed to Account Status 8: Closed! Bummer. And of course this happened just after 8PM, so I'm waiting to call TiVo...


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Most likely the seller transferred the lifetime sub before selling it to you.


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## TiVo Steve (Nov 8, 2005)

stevel said:


> Most likely the seller transferred the lifetime sub before selling it to you.


The original owner (seller) paid for lifetime in January 2006, then two weeks later, called in and cancelled the lifetime (and got a refund). Then he took a picture of the System Information screen showing the "Lifetime" status...then sold it to me. 

Moral of THIS story...always call TiVo and ask for the status of the TiVo (by the TSN) before buying the unit!


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

TiVo Steve said:


> The original owner (seller) paid for lifetime in January 2006, then two weeks later, called in and cancelled the lifetime (and got a refund). Then he took a picture of the System Information screen showing the "Lifetime" status...then sold it to me.
> 
> Moral of THIS story...always call TiVo and ask for the status of the TiVo (by the TSN) before buying the unit!


OUCH! How did you pay? If credit card, do a chargeback. If through ebay using paypal, do a chargeback. This seems to be a clear case of fraud, and the seller could be prosecuted.


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## hawk4hire (Jan 20, 2004)

Tim,

Doesnt Ebay also offer a mediation for something like this too? 

As for Ripped off - hey he's entitled to his opinion and 50 people calling him names or anything wont change his opinion. I really doubt calling him a troll will make him come back and say - "oh wow All of you are right!" 
The best way to deal with someone you think is totally wrong is to ignore them - like most of you will do this post. Why bother responding to something you think is soooo wrong. 
Personally I dont disagree with Ripped off - its how he feels, what he thinks happened. IF he really wants to do something about it then either sell his Tivo or call Tivo and rant with them. 
I really think this is the wrong place to mount a coup against Tivo. There are more Tivo supporters here than Michael Jordan fans at a Bulls game.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

hawk4hire said:


> Tim,
> 
> Doesnt Ebay also offer a mediation for something like this too?


I think so, but the seller doesn't have to cooperate. If he paid with a money order or personal check, it's going to be more difficult to get his money back, but even if that situation, he could press charges of mail fraud against the seller, because his money was mailed in. I'm told the U.S.P.S. takes these charges seriously and will put pressure on the seller, and there are people over in the ebay discussion forums who frequently post links to the the websites where you report you situation and initiate the mail fraud procedings.

Of course the first step before doing any of the things I mentioned is to contact and confront the seller and ask for a refund. If he refuses, then do a chargeback if you paid by credit card or paypal. Also submit a nonperforming seller report to ebay.

Of course at this point we don't know if ebay is where he bought this.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

hawk4hire said:


> As for Ripped off - hey he's entitled to his opinion and 50 people calling him names or anything wont change his opinion. I really doubt calling him a troll will make him come back and say - "oh wow All of you are right!"
> The best way to deal with someone you think is totally wrong is to ignore them - like most of you will do this post. Why bother responding to something you think is soooo wrong.
> Personally I dont disagree with Ripped off - its how he feels, what he thinks happened. IF he really wants to do something about it then either sell his Tivo or call Tivo and rant with them.
> I really think this is the wrong place to mount a coup against Tivo. There are more Tivo supporters here than Michael Jordan fans at a Bulls game.


well 50 people pointing out logically and calmly why it was *not a scam* will not chnage his opinion either since he obviously did not feel like reading about what lifetime on the box meant when he forked over the 299$ and as you point out does not feel like reading replies to his post either.

Do you agree with Ripped off and his rant about lifetime being a scam? If he went to a bull's game and started screaming "Jordon is no good" what reaction do you expect ? What reaction should he expect to his flame bait posts?


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## CloudsBreak (May 2, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> 1) The unit is a second hand Series 1 unit that was allowed a one time transfer and the original owner called and exercised that right without your knowledge.
> 
> Dan


I doubt it was that bec if he had the service transferred into his name the old "user" cant do anything regarding to the TiVo or its survice as far as I know...


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## hawk4hire (Jan 20, 2004)

Zeo - No I dont agree with him because I read the stupid terms of service - lol 
But I didnt think people jumping on his case for either not reading it or not likeing or whatever the reason, would help either. 
I just choose not to jump his case. But at the same time, is it flame baiting to state his opinion although REALLY different from the rest of the community? I think its flame baiting only IF someone takes the bait... lol


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## hawk4hire (Jan 20, 2004)

Tim,

I think you are correct. Can Paypal debit your account? Like a chargeback on a CC?

just curious...


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Yes, paypal can do that. I should mention that Paypal is good at doing chargebacks for items not received from the seller. (The seller has to show proof of delivery to survive the chargeback.)

But this is an 'item not as described' complaint, and Paypal doesn't always rule in favor of the buyer. Sometimes they do; sometimes they don't. That's why all my Paypal purchases are funded through my credit card. If Paypal denies the chargeback, my next step would be to do a credit card chargeback, which is successful more often that a Paypal chargeback is. (Note: the Paypal chargeback must at least be attempted before doing a credit card chargeback, because if Paypal sees you doing a credit card chargeback on a Paypal transaction without having first gone through the Paypal chargeback step, they get mad, and can sanction you for breaking the terms of agreement with Paypal.)


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

timckelley said:


> That's why all my Paypal purchases are funded through my credit card.


Awhile back, I "verified" my paypal account by tying it to my Checking account.

Is that bad?  I cannot find anyway to undo that and link it back to a credit card... and if I did, would I still be "verified".

Any suggestions?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

greg_burns said:


> Awhile back, I "verified" my paypal account by tying it to my Checking account.
> 
> Is that bad?  I cannot find anyway to undo that and link it back to a credit card... and if I did, would I still be "verified".
> 
> Any suggestions?


You can add a Credit Card and use that to pay for all your purchases and still keep the bank account. When you go to pay click on the link "alternate funding" PayPal will try to convince not to use your CC but you can do it anyways


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

greg_burns said:


> Awhile back, I "verified" my paypal account by tying it to my Checking account.
> 
> Is that bad?  I cannot find anyway to undo that and link it back to a credit card... and if I did, would I still be "verified".
> 
> Any suggestions?


Everytime I use Paypal credit card it tries to sell me on using my checking account. IFrom what I remember, part of the sales pitch is security features for fraudulent transactions. I think you should be able to recoup your money. Paypal is now owned by E-bay and I think they want buyers to feel secure in their payment.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Yes, nothing wrong with linking your bank account; it's a useful way of withdrawing $ from paypal. Like lessd, just override the default everytime you pay with paypal, and tell it you're using a credit card. That's what I do. (Mine is also linked to a savings account that I keep a few hundred $ in.) Paypal defaults to funding through your bank, because they make more money that way, but you're free to override that default.


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## TiVo Steve (Nov 8, 2005)

who helped with their suggestions. I am getting a refund from the seller! Between ebay feedback, using PayPal, and your other ideas I will not be out any bucks. The seller was selling this unit for a "friend" and only had the status screen to go by. He never did make a "daily call".
I would have rather had another Lifetime Series 1 though...


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Note that PayPal will suspend your account if you ask your credit card company to file a chargeback.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

stevel said:


> Note that PayPal will suspend your account if you ask your credit card company to file a chargeback.


True, but if I'm not mistaken, if Paypal decides not to approve your chargeback request, then you're free to pursue a credit card chargeback without repercussions from Paypal. I think all Paypal requires is that you at least attempt to do the chargeback through them first.


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## Olde Fortran (Apr 22, 2006)

Looks like there's another case of this:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=300276


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## audiocrawford (Oct 19, 2005)

timckelley said:


> True, but if I'm not mistaken, if Paypal decides not to approve your chargeback request, then you're free to pursue a credit card chargeback without repercussions from Paypal. I think all Paypal requires is that you at least attempt to do the chargeback through them first.


This is usually true. I did a chargeback about a year and a half ago, and haven't had an issue since - however, it still shows up as an "unresolved issue" on my account, even though the matter was closed (and when I click on the issue it tells me it's completed).

What happened in my case is the seller cleaned out their account, and PayPal found in my favor. However, because of the cleaned out account PayPal couldn't give me my $ back. I did a chargeback with my bank, and got my $ back and the seller's account was banned. However, somewhere in their million-lines of disclaimers they do reserve the right to close your account if you do a chargeback.

An earlier poster mentioned how PayPal tries to sell you on using your bank account instead of a credit card every time; it's not because it really provides more security for YOU, it's that it provides more security for THEM, as it's harder to do a chargeback that way (though it is still possible) and many of the credit card rules that protect you aren't valid.

PayPal/Ebay are great tools, but you just have to know how to use them. PayPal is very geared toward the buyer, for instance - if the buyer reports a transaction to PayPal as undelivered/fraudulent, the seller MUST provide delivery confirmation or it's automatically ruled in the buyers favor, no questions asked. And never buy on eBay unless you've researched the seller thoroughly - reading even the positive comments can give you an insight into how good they are.

AC


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## jhwpbm (Feb 28, 2002)

audiocrawford said:


> PayPal is very geared toward the buyer, for instance - if the buyer reports a transaction to PayPal as undelivered/fraudulent, the seller MUST provide delivery confirmation or it's automatically ruled in the buyers favor, no questions asked.


I had a very frustrating experience with PayPal this past October. I had ordered a really "hot" Halloween costume for my nephew which was "guaranteed" to arrive before October 31. Not only was it *never* received, according to an email I received from the seller, it as not even shipped until November 3. Since I never received it at all, I filed a complaint with PayPal (after all attempts to resolve the issue with the seller were completely ignored). In the end, the seller provided a FedEx shipping number (which "proved" that the shipment had been delivered - to another person at another address in another city!) and PayPal "resolved" the issue in the seller's favor!

No amount of pleading, escalation, etc., would make them change their mind. Since the seller "proved" she had shipped *something*, *somewhere* to *someone* (definitely not me, though), that was enough for them. 

Just a cautionary tale. . .


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

jhwpbm said:


> I had a very frustrating experience with PayPal this past October. I had ordered a really "hot" Halloween costume for my nephew which was "guaranteed" to arrive before October 31. Not only was it *never* received, according to an email I received from the seller, it as not even shipped until November 3. Since I never received it at all, I filed a complaint with PayPal (after all attempts to resolve the issue with the seller were completely ignored). In the end, the seller provided a FedEx shipping number (which "proved" that the shipment had been delivered - to another person at another address in another city!) and PayPal "resolved" the issue in the seller's favor!
> 
> No amount of pleading, escalation, etc., would make them change their mind. Since the seller "proved" she had shipped *something*, *somewhere* to *someone* (definitely not me, though), that was enough for them.
> 
> Just a cautionary tale. . .


WHAT !!! If your address is a confirmed address with PayPal then this should never happened because the seller is always protected only if they ship to a confirmed address. If the person does not have an confirmed address I always insure the package and get sign delivery confirmation. If the seller proves delivery to the confirmed address (yours) then you don't get your money back but proof of delivery to another address that not yours WOW ! I would just have to deliver one item and sell stuff I don't have and use the one confirmed address I delivered to and make a lot of money..must be more to this story.


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## jhwpbm (Feb 28, 2002)

lessd said:


> WHAT !!! If your address is a confirmed address with PayPal then this should never happened because the seller is always protected only if they ship to a confirmed address. If the person does not have an confirmed address I always insure the package and get sign delivery confirmation. If the seller proves delivery to the confirmed address (yours) then you don't get your money back but proof of delivery to another address that not yours WOW ! I would just have to deliver one item and sell stuff I don't have and use the one confirmed address I delivered to and make a lot of money..must be more to this story.


Don't know what more to say - that's exactly what happened. The FedEx confirmation she provided showed another address in Dallas (not even in my ZIP code) - PayPal was insistent this was all the "confirmation" they needed. I appealed several times and was told the matter was closed. Lost $100+ dollars (stupid to pay that much for a Halloween costume, but still. . .).


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

jhwpbm said:


> Don't know what more to say - that's exactly what happened. The FedEx confirmation she provided showed another address in Dallas (not even in my ZIP code) - PayPal was insistent this was all the "confirmation" they needed. I appealed several times and was told the matter was closed. Lost $100+ dollars (stupid to pay that much for a Halloween costume, but still. . .).


So PayPal didn't follow their own rules ... looks like a pretty easy case to get a judgement against PayPal in small claims court.

The seller didn't/couldn't provide proof they shipped to your confirmed address; they aren't eligible for protection. Pretty black and white.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

jhwpbm said:


> The FedEx confirmation she provided showed another address in Dallas (not even in my ZIP code) - PayPal was insistent this was all the "confirmation" they needed.


Did you call FedEx to get the delivery address and provide it to PayPal?


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

jhwpbm said:


> Since I never received it at all, I filed a complaint with PayPal (after all attempts to resolve the issue with the seller were completely ignored). In the end, the seller provided a FedEx shipping number (which "proved" that the shipment had been delivered - to another person at another address in another city!) and PayPal "resolved" the issue in the seller's favor!
> 
> No amount of pleading, escalation, etc., would make them change their mind. Since the seller "proved" she had shipped *something*, *somewhere* to *someone* (definitely not me, though), that was enough for them.
> 
> Just a cautionary tale. . .


The seller sells you something and you pay for it. At that point the item belongs to you. The seller may ship _your_ item to you if you have contracted with him to do that, but the sale itself is a completed transaction. Over.

The shipping is a separate piece of business. Your issue is with the shipper. Since you gave the wrong address (the seller's version of the story, if he even bothers to respond), the shipper will have no interest in the matter. If you can _prove_ you did not give an incorrect address, you _may_ be able to recover in SCC any payment specifically identified as a price for the shipping service itself.

I was absolutely stunned the first time this "logic" was presented to me, but it was, I learned, a mantra with many eBay sellers, and it's actually a defensible position.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Redux said:


> The seller sells you something and you pay for it. At that point the item belongs to you. The seller may ship _your_ item to you if you have contracted with him to do that, but the sale itself is a completed transaction. Over.


Ummm, no. The terms of most eBay sales (and PayPal payments) are for combined purchase/shipment.

If anyone ever tried pulling that type of "logic" with me, I'd have a small claims judgement against them in about a week.

If your new car falls off a carrier on its' way to your dealer before you've taken possession of the vehicle, even if it's paid in full, the dealer is liable for the damage, not you.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Besides, the shipping address is recorded in the PayPal transaction.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Redux said:


> The seller sells you something and you pay for it. At that point the item belongs to you. The seller may ship _your_ item to you if you have contracted with him to do that, but the sale itself is a completed transaction. Over.
> 
> The shipping is a separate piece of business. Your issue is with the shipper. Since you gave the wrong address (the seller's version of the story, if he even bothers to respond), the shipper will have no interest in the matter. If you can _prove_ you did not give an incorrect address, you _may_ be able to recover in SCC any payment specifically identified as a price for the shipping service itself.
> 
> I was absolutely stunned the first time this "logic" was presented to me, but it was, I learned, a mantra with many eBay sellers, and it's actually a defensible position.


If your address in PayPal is incorrect that a totally different matter but if your address is confirmed and is the correct address something rotten in Denmark about this, I just called PayPal for my own concern and they told the seller must provide on line tracking to your confirmed address and the on line tracking must show that the item was delivered to the confirmed address or you get your money back


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## JasonRossSmith (Jul 21, 2005)

As a longtime employee of of one of the largest credit card processing banks in the US, I can confirm for you (without giving out too much detail for evil doers to abuse) that if you are an educated consumer, aware of your transaction dispute rights, and you paid for the item with a Visa or MasterCard, it is virtually impossible for you to lose a legitimate dispute with on a charge.

I tell you this knowing the pain our merchants go through from unscrupulous consumers who "fake" chargebacks.

Again, knowledge is power, and while shady merchants may get away with ripping off uneducated consumers, those who know their rights will win 99.999% of the time.


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