# WandaVision S1 Spoilers



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

There are no titles to the episodes listed yet.

That was trippy. Lots of old sitcom references. The only time there was color was during the toaster commercial where the light was blinking red. When Mr. Hart was choking, Mrs. Hart's calm "stop it" gave away. . ._something._

At the very end, it's someone else watching a TV show.

Debra Jo Rupp and Kathryn Hahn were both great.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Also at the end this is the logo on the notebook.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Should I have done one thread for the first two eps because they dropped together?


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

I've watched the first two episodes. So far, I'm not really into this show, but I will 100% watch every episode.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

After watching the first two episodes, WandaVision is slightly above Inhumans on my Marvel tv series rankings list. I fully expect it to become much more interesting so I'm in for the long haul (for now).


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## Fixer (Mar 29, 2005)

What's the deal with the nearly 7 minutes worth of credits?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Man, what a rip-off. I can't believe Disney+ is actually running commercials! DURING their shows!


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Man, what a rip-off. I can't believe Disney+ is actually running commercials! DURING their shows!


Especially commercials for Hydra. 

Overall I'm not sure about this. It seems to be primarily a comedy with a few mystery bits thrown in. I'm hoping that reverses rather quickly.

Am I the only one who thinks Vision isn't real or that none of it is and it's all in Wanda's head? Either way I don't think that's Vision. He still has the Mind stone.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

Didn't like the first episode, hopefully the second one draws me in more. I'm not a good audience for this one - I'm a HUGE MCU fan but never bought into this duo on any kind of emotional level. That said, I can dig the idea of the show, and I like the nostalgia of running through all these styles of sitcoms as the show goes on, but at the end of the day, I'm gonna need some big time twists and MCU connections to make it through lol. The first episode absolutely did nothing except directly send up 50's sitcoms. Yes I get it at, at the end there's some guy watching them on TV.. but meh. Still, it's only the first one so I know you have to see more to let it build out... at least for the time being we're not being subjected to that terrible accent from the movies hahah


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Huge Marvel fan and honestly, I couldn't make it through 5 mins.

I'm going to shelf this for now.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fixer said:


> What's the deal with the nearly 7 minutes worth of credits?


They run the voice credits for every language the show was dubbed in, even the ones you didn't watch. That was most of it. (They even have separate versions for Quebec and European French, as well as two different versions of Spanish.)

I watched the full credits for the second episode to be sure I wasn't missing any of the traditional Marvel credit inserts. I wasn't, and I won't do that again.

Anyway, I like the show so far.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Yeah, I like it too. They're definitely up to something, and I don't have a clue what, and I'm looking forward to finding out what.

By the way, after two episodes it looks like they're taking a tour of sitcom history, with each episode modeled after a different classic show.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I’m going to ask the mods to make this a season spoiler thread.


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## firerose818 (Jul 21, 2003)

I loved it, but Wanda and Vision are my favorite MCU characters. I also did a bunch of deep dives into people analyzing the trailers on YouTube...so what can I say?


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Lots of nods to classic sitcoms. Dick Van **** intro on the first ep, Bewitched the second ep. 

The logo on the notebook at the end of E1 is from S.W.O.R.D.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

The nods to classic sitcoms in the first few episodes really has nothing to do with what the show is about.

You only see a few tiny glimpses and voices of what is really happening.

-smak-


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## osu1991 (Mar 6, 2015)

Turtleboy said:


> Lots of nods to classic sitcoms. Dick Van **** intro on the first ep, Bewitched the second ep.
> 
> The logo on the notebook at the end of E1 is from S.W.O.R.D.


As was the logo on the bee keeper guy at the end of episode 2

Dick Van **** was a consultant for the show on the look and feel of that era of sitcoms.


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## osu1991 (Mar 6, 2015)

I'm thinking this would be better as an all in one binge show, instead of weekly episodes.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Instead of tripping over the ottoman, Viz walks through it.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

osu1991 said:


> As was the logo on the bee keeper guy at the end of episode 2


And on the tiny helicopter.

I would hope people here would take these type clues, and give the show more of a chance.

-smak-


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

vertigo235 said:


> Huge Marvel fan and honestly, I couldn't make it through 5 mins.
> 
> I'm going to shelf this for now.


You're missing quite a bit.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> Instead of tripping over the ottoman, Viz walks through it.


I loved that bit.

Overall this show is right up my alley, but it is an odd follow up to the MCU movies. I could see people being turned off.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Turtleboy said:


> The logo on the notebook at the end of E1 is from S.W.O.R.D.


Thank you. In the Seventies I read the Avengers books when Wanda and Vision got married (while suicidal human terrorists tried to stop them), but S.W.O.R.D. is way after my time. I also grew up with the sitcoms they're referencing. Having fun with this.



realityboy said:


> Overall this show is right up my alley, but it is an odd follow up to the MCU movies. I could see people being turned off.


Apparently they planned to start with the more standard Falcon and the Winter Soldier, but covid happened. For a lot of people this one is going to take some effort.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

realityboy said:


> I loved that bit.
> 
> Overall this show is right up my alley, but it is an odd follow up to the MCU movies. I could see people being turned off.


Well, it wasn't supposed to be. It was going to be at least the 3rd or 4th property after Far From Home.

-smak-


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

It's going to take a few more episodes to sort out the following problem:

* If you watched the trailers, there was nothing new here. It was 60 minutes of filler, surrounding the few plot bits you already saw in the trailers.
* If you didn't watch the trailers, or aren't invested enough in the universe to follow along regardless, I can't blame you for not making it through the first episode.

I think they set things up well enough at the end of EP 2 to solve that problem, and move forward. We'll have to see.


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## Bill Reeves (Jul 18, 2002)

I'm glad there were two episodes released at once. The first episode didn't have enough... for lack of a better term, weird stuff - going on to make me want to wait a week to see more, but being able to watch the second episode right away meant we could get some more of the oddities, or out-of-context stuff, so now I'm willing to wait a week to see more.

My kid (age 14) watched a few minutes of the second episode and mimed that he was ready to shoot himself in the head - he doesn't have that background of reruns of 50s and 60s sitcoms that my wife and I have - and without that, I can see how the first two episodes would be hard to watch.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I have the knowledge of the 50s and 60s sitcoms and the first two episodes were hard to watch. As my best friend texted me afterwards, "That was painful".


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

It basically was like watching an old sitcom and that is the point. I didn’t find it “painful”, but it definitely wasn’t what I was expecting. Like I wrote above, it’s basically a cheesy comedy at this point. I’m hoping that pivots quickly.

Each episode was only about 25 minutes long, so I guess they will drop 2 episodes a week and have a total of 20 episodes? I can’t see them doing 10 to 12 episodes at 25 minutes long.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

morac said:


> Each episode was only about 25 minutes long, so I guess they will drop 2 episodes a week and have a total of 20 episodes? I can't see them doing 10 to 12 episodes at 25 minutes long.


WandaVision Release Schedule: What Time Does Episode 3 Come Out? - IGN


> Here's the full WandaVision Season 1 release schedule:
> 
> Episode 1: Friday, January 15 - Available Now
> Episode 2: Friday, January 15 - Available Now
> ...


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I really enjoyed it. But if you give up on it midway through, you are missing what they are trying to do.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

morac said:


> It basically was like watching an old sitcom and that is the point. I didn't find it "painful", but it defiantly wasn't what I was expecting. Like I wrote above, it's basically a cheesy comedy at this point. I'm hoping that pivots quickly.
> 
> Each episode was only about 25 minutes long, so I guess they will drop 2 episodes a week and have a total of 20 episodes? I can't see them doing 10 to 12 episodes at 25 minutes long.


The producers have said that


Spoiler: Producers on length



as they drift away from the sitcom format, the episode length will become more variable.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Turtleboy said:


> You're missing quite a bit.


Missing about 55 mins so far


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

vertigo235 said:


> Missing about 55 mins so far


Give it a try. It's very good. If you think it's just a sitcom, it's not.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Man, what a rip-off. I can't believe Disney+ is actually running commercials! DURING their shows!


How long before the toaster is available 
for purchase?


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## secondclaw (Oct 3, 2004)

I never watched these old sitcoms, hate laugh tracks (nearly stopped watching the moment first one came on), and I don't care for Wanda or Vision, or their relationship in MCU. Clearly I'm not the right audience for the show. I barely made through first 2, and may give it one or two more episodes before quitting. 

I also am not very happy that Disney is sticking with Saturday-morning cartoon show length (as good as Mandalorian was, I hated that aspect of it), even if they plan on making it longer later. Feels like they make the shows super short to stretch the new material on Disney+, since they have so little of it to justify subscription.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Definitely a slow burning series. I think the pace is going to pick up though... episode 1 only really had the one moment that broke the classic sitcom format, that moment during the dinner scene. Episode 2 had several. I feel like that increasing pace is going to continue.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

Grace Randolph does a good job breaking down the first two episodes...

Grace knows her stuff...for those of you who don't know, she's a comic book writer and follows both the comic and movie spaces... When I first ran into her YouTube channel, her high pitched voice kind of grated on me... But I've gotten past it and can appreciate her content for the most part...

Based on her analysis and observation, there is a lot going on that I didn't (or couldn't) catch!

@vertigo235 you might want to watch this and see if it gives you any appreciation for what's been shown so far, and whether you want to give up so quickly...


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

Loved it. They did an even better job re-creating '60s sitcoms than I was expecting based on the trailers.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

I will give it a go later but I want to wait until there are more episodes.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

It’s a good thing they released two episodes. The theme of the show doesn’t actually reveal itself until the second episode. If they only did one, it would just look like an offbeat sitcom riff. And a failure. The second episode revealed there was a lot more. (No, the guy watching at the end of the furs episode didn’t sell that, really. It could’ve just been meta stuff.)


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I am not into comics and haven't even seen all the MCU films much less all the various TV shows (did love Agent Carter). So, my wife and I sat down to watch these two episodes today. My wife found the "laugh track" (I have read there was a real studio audience) grating and walked out for a while during E1. I appreciated what they were trying to do and recognized the homages to both Dick Van **** and Bewitched (I'm old enough to have seen them when they were on the air.)

It was clear from the beginning that this world was off-kilter, and that neither Wanda nor Vision quite understood their place in it. I enjoyed the humor and the subtle ways that the mystery was inserted, along with the splashes of color (I also remember shows switching from B+W to color.)

The Grace Randolph video was helpful in telling me that I had no clue about the back story here, but I am interested in seeing where they go with this.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> It's a good thing they released two episodes. The theme of the show doesn't actually reveal itself until the second episode. If they only did one, it would just look like an offbeat sitcom riff. And a failure. The second episode revealed there was a lot more. (No, the guy watching at the end of the furs episode didn't sell that, really. It could've just been meta stuff.)


"Who's doing this to you Wanda?"

-smak-


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

As a fan of the 1980s Steve Englehart comic book series where Wanda and Vision did move to live in the suburbs (and thank you John Byrne for completely destroying that series), I'm liking this series.

And as someone who's seen episodes of the Dick Van **** show and Bewitched, I can appreciate what they're doing here.

Obviously there's a lot more going on here than Olson and Bettany doing sitcom parodies but I can see the first episode turning off people who weren't paying attention.
(Also, I don't think Bewitched or the Dick Van **** show had that many people of color.)
And no, I didn't miss the SWORD logo and the Strucker watch either.



Spoiler: Speculation based on a casting spoiler



I know that Kat Dennings is supposed to appear in this as well so I wonder if some type of attempt at rebuilding the Vision and Darcy is part of that team.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

JYoung said:


> (Also, I don't think Bewitched or the Dick Van **** show had that many people of color.)


Veeery few. On one of those rare instances on the Dick Van **** show, it was a flashback episode to when Rob thought their new baby had been switched with another couple's at the hospital.

At the end of the episode the other couple arrives for a visit, and it turns out they're Black. The producers were so worried about this, they had Asian actors standing by to reshoot the scene depending on how the audience reacted. But the audience thought it was great, and howled with laughter at Rob.

Then there was the time on Bewitched when Tabitha wanted to be sisters with a black friend, so she makes a wish and the two girls wind up polka-dotted.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

I really liked the 2 episodes, especially the 2nd, and figuring out a bit of what's going to happen, I don't mind the way they are going about it.

But, my one query is, does Wanda from Sakovia know Bewitched, and Dick Van ****, and Family Ties, etc... to create a perfect replica.

Does she even know the 50's and 60's enough?

So maybe my thought that she has created this bubble herself isn't right.

Also, I don't think we talked much about Monica Rambeau being here. I'm pretty sure she's got to be working for SWORD, or some place similar, so how and why is she in there?

-smak-


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

smak said:


> .
> Also, I don't think we talked much about Monica Rambeau being here. I'm pretty sure she's got to be working for SWORD, or some place similar, so how and why is she in there?
> 
> -smak-


We don't know who that is from anything in-universe. When Wanda introduced herself she said "I'm. . uhhh... Geraldine." Looking back on it, she is clearly making up and giving a fake name. But we don't know who that is yet.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

MikeekiM said:


> Grace Randolph does a good job breaking down the first two episodes...
> 
> Grace knows her stuff...for those of you who don't know, she's a comic book writer and follows both the comic and movie spaces... When I first ran into her YouTube channel, her high pitched voice kind of grated on me... But I've gotten past it and can appreciate her content for the most part...
> 
> ...


She's very annoying but also very informative. It took me about 13 minutes to stop paying attention to how humongous her glasses are.

I'd never heard of S.W.O.R.D. and had to Wikipedia it.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

The first two episodes were fun. I wasn't sure where they were going with this format, but it's pretty clear that there's an underlying mystery waiting to reveal itself. I'm in.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Yeah I enjoyed them. The homage to past TV is endearing and just enough mystery to keep me in. I can’t wait until they do the homage to the Brady Bunch.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Is that the Hydra base on the left?


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## firerose818 (Jul 21, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> Is that the Hydra base on the left?


The internet seems to think so...


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Turtleboy said:


> We don't know who that is from anything in-universe. When Wanda introduced herself she said "I'm. . uhhh... Geraldine." Looking back on it, she is clearly making up and giving a fake name. But we don't know who that is yet.


It'll be very interesting how they've inserted people into her illusion. I guess one way is through "the sewer". Did she come in on that tiny helicopter some how?

-smak-


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

Keep in mind Marvel spent 10 years and 22(?) films before giving us the payout in Xfinity War and Endgame. I am more than willing to watch and rewatch because I trust these folks who have provided so much already.


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## doom1701 (May 15, 2001)

We watched the first two episodes last night, and it feels so weird. They really did nail the old sitcoms--not just the look, but the tropes and mannerisms from the shows they were emulating. It actually left me a little uncomfortable, watching and enjoying them for the nostalgia value (I *love* the Dick Van **** Show, so the first episode was wonderful), knowing that there's something bigger going on behind the scenes.

Spoiler tag for a theory/worry of mine


Spoiler



Apparently a lot of the numbers shown in the episodes reference comic issues where Vision is rebuilt/repaired/etc. I'd love to see Vision come back and he and Wanda be able to go live their lives again, but I also worry that would weaken the ending of Infinity War. I felt the same way when Spike came back for the last season of Angel; after a heroic and pretty heart wrenching death in the Buffy finale, he just magically came back.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

So far, I'm really digging the show. It's like a cross between The Matrix, The Truman Show and Pleasantville, three movies that I absolutely love. I thought the first two episodes were really solid, and I wasn't bored at all. In fact, I thought some of the jokes were actually quite funny. I was particularly impressed with Paul Bettany. I've never seen him in anything outside of the MCU, and he has much more range than I would have thought. Olsen was quite good as well at capturing the nuances of a character from that era.

I spent the whole second episode trying to figure out why the actress who played Dottie seemed so familiar. Sure enough, it was Emma Caulfield from Buffy.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Also, Kathryn Hahn must have the best agent in Hollywood. I swear, it seems like she's in every other show I watch these days.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

gweempose said:


> Also, Kathryn Hahn must have the best agent in Hollywood. I swear, it seems like she's in every other show I watch these days.


And well deserved. She's great.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

doom1701 said:


> We watched the first two episodes last night, and it feels so weird. They really did nail the old sitcoms--not just the look, but the tropes and mannerisms from the shows they were emulating. It actually left me a little uncomfortable, watching and enjoying them for the nostalgia value (I *love* the Dick Van **** Show, so the first episode was wonderful), knowing that there's something bigger going on behind the scenes.
> 
> Spoiler tag for a theory/worry of mine
> 
> ...


In the comics, in an entirely unrelated story-line,


Spoiler



the Scarlet Witch went insane and magically altered the universe so that there were no more mutants. There's a theory that something similar is happening here...that Vision's death drove her insane, and she has created a reality in which he still "lives" (and in which they are living in domestic bliss). In the comics story her action had unexpected wider repercussions that had people contemplating killing her. It's possible that whatever she's doing here is also causing problems, which is why Hydra and SWORD (and Stark Industries?) may be trying to infiltrate her world.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

stevel said:


> I am not into comics and haven't even seen all the MCU films much less all the various TV shows (did love Agent Carter). So, my wife and I sat down to watch these two episodes today. My wife found the "laugh track" (I have read there was a real studio audience) grating and walked out for a while during E1. I appreciated what they were trying to do and recognized the homages to both Dick Van **** and Bewitched (I'm old enough to have seen them when they were on the air.)
> 
> It was clear from the beginning that this world was off-kilter, and that neither Wanda nor Vision quite understood their place in it. I enjoyed the humor and the subtle ways that the mystery was inserted, along with the splashes of color (I also remember shows switching from B+W to color.)
> 
> The Grace Randolph video was helpful in telling me that I had no clue about the back story here, but I am interested in seeing where they go with this.


This is me. I have seen a few of the movies, mostly the early Iron Man and Spider Man (not the second set of movies and I didn't like the last one), and Captain America, but this series intrigued me when someone mentioned it here, because of the homage to the sitcoms of the 1960s which I grew up on, and at that level I loved it. I watched Age of Ultron since my son said it would be a good intro to the two main characters (and fell asleep through about half that movie, but got the gist. Perhaps it plays better to folks that aren't shoulder deep in the MCU universe? I don't know, but I had fun with it. I noticed that in the first episode that they lived in a ranch house and in the second it was a split level, so that tells me that they are somehow "put" in these sitcoms rather than the second being a continuation of the first. I'm guessing it will all tie together at some point.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

gweempose said:


> I was particularly impressed with Paul Bettany. I've never seen him in anything outside of the MCU, and he has much more range than I would have thought.


Check him out in "A Knight's Tale" for more demonstration of his acting range. (That movie also features an entertaining supporting role for Alan Tudyk.)

It's currently available on TBS.com if you have a cable/satellite subscription.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

gweempose said:


> I was particularly impressed with Paul Bettany. I've never seen him in anything outside of the MCU, and he has much more range than I would have thought.


He was also pretty good in A Beautiful Mind


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> Check him out in "A Knight's Tale" for more demonstration of his acting range. (That movie also features an entertaining supporting role for Alan Tudyk.)
> 
> It's currently available on TBS.com if you have a cable/satellite subscription.





robojerk said:


> He was also pretty good in A Beautiful Mind


Oops! I guess I *have* seen him in other stuff outside of the MCU. I've actually seen both of these films, although that was 20 years ago, and I didn't remember he was in them. I'll have to go back and watch them again. I don't remember much about A Knight's Tale, but I recall really liking A Beautiful Mind. I just looked up Bettany's filmography, and those are indeed the only two films outside of the MCU that I've seen of his.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Bettany has always been a first-rate actor.

Plus he married Jennifer Connelly, so he obviously has good taste as well.


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

I grew up on the 50's/60's sitcoms so these were fantastic to me. The 2nd episode was hilarious. I never knew that Bettany was such a comedian. It was like he was channelling Dudley Moore's Arthur to me. 

I gave up reading comics in teh mid '70s so I'm not too familiar with the potential storylines they might be using. I'm familiar with the MCU having seen every movie multiple times. I'm in because I like the format and the possibilities.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Easter Eggs You Missed In WandaVision Episodes 1 And 2


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)




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## ehusen (Jan 7, 2002)

Craigbob said:


> I grew up on the 50's/60's sitcoms so these were fantastic to me. The 2nd episode was hilarious. I never knew that Bettany was such a comedian. It was like he was channelling Dudley Moore's Arthur to me.


"And Flourish!"


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I think most if not all of these have been referenced in this thread.

'WandaVision': Here's your guide to all of the Easter eggs in the first two episodes [spoilers!]

After reading these, I realize that I know almost nothing about Wanda Maximoff other than what I've seen in the previous Marvel big screen movies.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

I know I'm always on this subject but...my first watching of the two episodes on Friday was in glorious Dolby vision and Dolby Atmos. Subsequent watching were not in Atmos. I immediately went to every other platform and did indeed get Atmos on what ever shows I expected to get Atmos. Did not get Atmos on Wandavision thru my brand new TCL Roku tv nor the TS4K plugged into my Atmos capable Yamaha receiver. In spite of the fact that FRiday all was glorious Atmos and Vision (get it?) Seriously... not a platform issue nor a device issue. This is a Disney issue. Are they that cheap to put the original airings in Atmos and then downgrade?


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Man, what a rip-off. I can't believe Disney+ is actually running commercials! DURING their shows!


Ha!

One of my favorite sitcoms, "Better off Ted" ran hilarious fake commercials for Veridian Dynamics (Ted's employer) during the first season of the show.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

ej42137 said:


> Ha!
> 
> One of my favorite sitcoms, "Better off Ted" ran hilarious fake commercials for Veridian Dynamics (Ted's employer) during the first season of the show.


And they were hysterical.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

ej42137 said:


> Ha!
> 
> One of my favorite sitcoms, "Better off Ted" ran hilarious fake commercials for Veridian Dynamics (Ted's employer) during the first season of the show.


That was a great show! I wish it did better ratings wise. Kind of Superstore set in an office setting. Or a better version of Corporate that played on CC for a couple of years.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

ej42137 said:


> Ha!
> 
> One of my favorite sitcoms, "Better off Ted" ran hilarious fake commercials for Veridian Dynamics (Ted's employer) during the first season of the show.


"we need to weaponize a pumpkin?"


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Oops, "Geraldine" you blew your cover.

-smak-


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

So who is a real person trapped in there and who is just a creation by Wanda?


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

I really wonder why the producers are bothering with the whole Vision in his natural red skin whenever they are alone. 

Unless it will be prominent in an upcoming plot......


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I couldn’t hear what Agnes and Herb were whispering, but it shows up on the captions.


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

Watched episode 3. Still not really caring about this show. Still assuming I eventually will care. We get the small taste of what is really going on, and that's why I keep watching. Hoping those tastes get much larger, and soon.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> So who is a real person trapped in there and who is just a creation by Wanda?


I kinda suspect everyone in town is a 'real' person. The difference is between those who are there intentionally, or those who aren't.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

With the ending what it is, I think they are getting to the main plot. As far as I've heard, there's only 1 more decade to parody.

-smak-


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

kdmorse said:


> I kinda suspect everyone in town is a 'real' person. The difference is between those who are there intentionally, or those who aren't.


I think this is true, and instead of her just creating a whole town, she just "moved in".

There isn't a huge force of FBI and SWORD hanging outside if it's just a figment of her imagination.

SWORD are sending people in to try and get through to her, but "Geraldine" screwed up, so she got the boot.

Apparently End Game had a deleted post credits scene with Wanda & Vision, and it tells you a little about what's going on here.

You can search for what was in it.

-smak-


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

smak said:


> SWORD are sending people in to try and get through to her, but "Geraldine" screwed up, so she got the boot.


And it was Wanda who did the booting...which makes me think that this might in fact be her own little world.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And it was Wanda who did the booting...which makes me think that this might in fact be her own little world.


But not consciously I don't think. Or it's gotten out of hand and is effecting the outside world.

-smak-


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I don't think Agnes and Herb are working for SWORD though. They are either on the bad side, or they were somehow created by Wanda.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

smak said:


> But not consciously I don't think. Or it's gotten out of hand and is effecting the outside world.
> 
> -smak-


I'm not sure if it's conscious or not. When Vision started questioning what was happening with their neighbors, Wanda got a look in her face and suddenly time rewound again (looked like a video glitch) and then Vision didn't question in that version.

Likewise when she booted Geraldine and Wanda said she left in a drone voice.

I think any time Wanda's world is threatened she "fixes" it.

She's obviously controlling the world to an extent, but I don't think she created it and the people in it. They seem to have wills of their own and are being "forced" to play along as they don't want to anger Wanda.

For example, the doctor tried to go on vacation, but was stopped and at the end he said it's so hard to escape small towns.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I think some things are constructs, like the babies. I’m fairly certain Vision is as well.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

I think Vision is NOT just something she entirely created with her powers.

-smak-


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Herb was about to say something to Vision, that Geraldine came because “We’re ________” before Agnes cut him off.


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

I’m hooked, it’s a great concept.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Part of all the fun is discussing what's going on.

-smak-


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> Herb was about to say something to Vision, that Geraldine came because "We're ________" before Agnes cut him off.


My guess was "We're all trapped."


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

I think this is really allowing them to show more of the type of actors they are. Being a superhero doesn’t allow you to show too much, well unless you’re right Iron Man.


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## firerose818 (Jul 21, 2003)

I loved the aspect ratio change when Geraldine/Monica was booted. 

The doctor also alluded to being trapped - not just Herb and Agnes.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Random User 7 said:


> I think this is really allowing them to show more of the type of actors they are. Being a superhero doesn't allow you to show too much, well unless you're right Iron Man.


She is incredible. And she looks so much better than she has in the movies. Maybe because she never had much personality in the movies .

-smak-


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

When Geraldine breaks the illusion by asking about Pietro, Olson switches from the fake sitcom accent to the regular accent, and then back again


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1352232484281397248


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

So episode 3 is the 70's with a Brady Bunch/Partridge Family vibe.

Geraldine (or "Geraldine") is definitely independent of what is obviously some type of created world/reality.

Whether or not Wanda created it (voluntarily, involuntarily, or coerced) or someone/something else did is the question.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

firerose818 said:


> I loved the aspect ratio change when Geraldine/Monica was booted.
> 
> The doctor also alluded to being trapped - not just Herb and Agnes.


The previous two episodes were 4:3 for the "sitcom" portions as well.



Spoiler: About Agnes (comic book related)



Agnes = Agatha Harkness?


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

E3 was definitely weird. I know nothing about Wanda’s backstory so I am just being carried along here. Enjoying it a lot.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

I didn't really know much at all either. This page was very helpful for backstory Easter eggery kind of info from the episode.....

Marvel's WandaVision Episode 3: MCU Easter Eggs and Reference Guide | Den of Geek


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Are the soldiers taking Geraldine prisoner, or does she work for them?


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

Turtleboy said:


> Are the soldiers taking Geraldine prisoner, or does she work for them?


My guess, since it is Monica and she works for Sword, it is Sword around the base. No reason other than a guess.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

stevel said:


> E3 was definitely weird. I know nothing about Wanda's backstory so I am just being carried along here. Enjoying it a lot.


E3 was the best episode so far. I can't wait for the first episode that the obnoxious laugh track ends. I also can't wait for the first episode where we don't have to guess and infer about everything that's going on.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

Random User 7 said:


> My guess, since it is Monica and she works for Sword, it is Sword around the bass. No reason other than a guess.


I've seen several references to a character named Monica but don't recall her from the show. Who's that?


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

David Platt said:


> I've seen several references to a character named Monica but don't recall her from the show. Who's that?


You don't know from in-show information just yet. Or is that the point you were trying to make?


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

I'm trying to make the point that I have no idea who Monica is. Does Courteney Cox make an appearance?


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

If you’ve seen Capitan Marvel, Monica was the name of the little girl who was the daughter of Maria Rambeau, Carol Danvers’s friend.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> If you've seen Capitan Marvel, Monica was the name of the little girl who was the daughter of Maria Rambeau, Carol Danvers's friend.


Huh. That's a connection I certainly wouldn't have made on my own.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

David Platt said:


> Huh. That's a connection I certainly wouldn't have made on my own.


To my knowledge the only "in show" reference to that, is in the credits. Whether that can be considered in show or not is so-so at best. (And there are a couple of other named characters in the credits like that). Out of show, it was widely advertised since the show was first teased.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

If you go back and watch when “Geraldine” first introduces herself to Monica, she pauses as if she is trying to “remember” her name and if she is unsure of what it is.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

She’s not a very good secret agent. Do CIA agents in Russia wear necklaces with big CIA emblems on them?


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I don’t think she is trying to be a secret agent per say. It seems like her job was to reach Wanda and “wake” her from fake life. Geraldine probably thought that once Wanda mention Piedro that she was close to coming back to reality. As such Geraldine took a chance and mention Ultron killing Peidro and then based on Wanda’s reaction, realized that that was a step too far.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

I think Geraldine got caught in whatever is going on with the town, and couldn't really do what she was sent in to do.

I don't think talking about Ultron killing Pietro was her goal.

But, if Wanda is really this deep in, and her energy field is increasing, you'd think they'd get somebody she knows in there, or somebody that can really stop her.

Maybe this is a first gambit.

-smak-


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

Now I want to watch Age of Ultron again.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

I was impressed that they brought Vision into the movies in the first place. I thought it might have been too complicated and weird. Even with the origin change. 


-smak-


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I actually just went back and watched Age of Ultron and was surprised how many things in that were used in Infinity War and End Game, though other things conflict a bit with some of the other Marvel movies. 

There’s a “Legends” series that was released on Disney+ where each episode is a 7 minute “highlight reel” of a character. The first two episodes are Wanda and Vision. It’s probably useful for people who haven’t seen all the movies and don’t want to sit through them or just need a refresher.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Elizabeth Olson deserves an Emmy nomination for this. And Kathryn Hahn for best supporting actress.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Kathryn has always been a favorite of mine!


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## Win Joy Jr (Oct 1, 2001)

Watched “Age of Ultron” again last night I just realized and I had forgotten how much the death of Pietro just adds to Wanda’s emotional load. Their parents were killed, then her brother, and then Vision.

I’m still thinking Wanda has had a mental break post Endgame and that maybe Sword and Hydra are working together to prevent The Scarlet Witch from destroying reality.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

This is good

The Casual Marvel Fan's Guide to WandaVision Episode 3


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

Just finished Age of Ultron, enjoyable as always. I forgot why Wanda loses her accent though. I remember knowing it before though.

Edit: okay just looked it up again and that make sense.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

I was a little stunned when I saw the credits from this week. I was completely oblivious during last week’s episode that Dottie was played by Emma Caulfield (who previously played Anya on “Buffy”.) I had to go back and watch last weeks again to see it. I don’t know how I missed that!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

LoadStar said:


> I was a little stunned when I saw the credits from this week. I was completely oblivious during last week's episode that Dottie was played by Emma Caulfield (who previously played Anya on "Buffy".) I had to go back and watch last weeks again to see it. I don't know how I missed that!


Maybe the passage of almost 20 years had something to do with it..?



(Sarah Michelle Gellar is in her 40s! Which just doesn't seem right.)


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Maybe the passage of almost 20 years had something to do with it..?


I dunno. For some reason, Emma looked to me like she was in her 40s even back then.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

LoadStar said:


> I dunno. For some reason, Emma looked to me like she was in her 40s even back then.


She's an old soul...

-smak-


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

Here's Grace's breakdown of S01E03... Interesting that at the beginning, she mentions that if you aren't familiar with the relationship between Vision and Wanda in the comic books, that it will be difficult to understand everything that's going on...


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I saw a theory put forth about the townspeople, including Geraldine, which in hindsight of what happened in this episode makes so much sense, that it's also certainly what's happening. As such even though speculation doesn't need to be spoiler tagged, I'm doing it anyway.



Spoiler



All the townsfolk, including Geraldine, are under mind control by Wanda. They aren't pretending or acting to placate Wanda, she's actually controlling them. The times you see them acting "weird" in this episode, such as when the neighbor is cutting through the wall, are times when Wanda's powers go awry such as during her labor pains.

The only time they regain their free will is when Wanda starts thinking about Piedro and sings that lullaby. At that point Wanda stops controlling them. That's when the doctor and the other two neighbors revert back to their regular selves and that's also when Geraldine mentions Ultron. Once Geraldine is booted and Wanda regains her composure, everyone goes back to their "normal" TV character selves.

As such Geraldine wasn't a bad spy, she was just a trapped as everyone else, until Wanda released her.

Vision isn't being controlled directly since he can see when odd things happen, but he can be "corrected" if he goes down the wrong path.



If correct, it's likely this will be fully revealed this upcoming week. Assuming we see Geraldine this week.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

"Pietro," by the way...


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

jlb said:


> Kathryn has always been a favorite of mine!


Timely: she was the cover story in my college alumni magazine that just arrived. She's only three months older than me, but graduated a full year ahead of me (I didn't know her -- among other things, theater majors usually only hung out with other theater majors).

Article link: Free to Play


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Heh...Northwestern. I had a colleague in grad school who was an undergrad at Northwestern when they set the record for (I think) the most losses in a row by a college football team. Then she was a Master's student at Columbia when they broke the record.

While we were at UCSB, they shut down their football program altogether. The school administration never admitted it, but we always suspected it was out of terror at what she would bring to them as a PhD student...


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> While we were at UCSB, they shut down their football program altogether. The school administration never admitted it, but we always suspected it was out of terror at what she would bring to them as a PhD student...


Yeah, we had a football stadium, but no football team.

OTOH, I saw some killer Grateful Dead concerts in that stadium. I think. Maybe.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

astrohip said:


> Yeah, we had a football stadium, but no football team.
> 
> OTOH, I saw some killer Grateful Dead concerts in that stadium. I think. Maybe.


It was amusing...there was a student referendum aimed at saving the football program (I can't remember how it was supposed to work; I'm not sure I ever knew). As the election got close, it was starting to look like the vote would go against the team. So on election day, and I wish this was a joke but it really happened, a bunch of football players gathered outside polling locations and threatened the students if they didn't vote for the team.

How on Earth would they know which way somebody voted?!? Idiots...they deserved to lose their team (and their "scholarships," which obviously to that point had been an utter failure).


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

But as I recall, we had the NCAA champion Volleyball team. Priorities!

Edit: Looked it up... runner-up, two years straight.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

Random User 7 said:


> Now I want to watch Age of Ultron again.


No you dont.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

I am so confused with this show.
I don't have the history needed to enjoy it I think.
I'll just watch for the fun TV-decade references.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Donbadabon said:


> I am so confused with this show.
> I don't have the history needed to enjoy it I think.
> I'll just watch for the fun TV-decade references.


I do have the references but that is how I am watching it anyway. It is too tiring to try to decipher every clue.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Donbadabon said:


> I am so confused with this show.
> I don't have the history needed to enjoy it I think.
> I'll just watch for the fun TV-decade references.


I don't think you need history or have to know the references. You only need those if you're trying to figure out what's going to happen in the future, instead of just watching and finding out.

-smak-


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

The "WandaVision" TV homages aren't mere storytelling gimmicks - they're strategic metacommentaries | Salon.com



> "WandaVision" is a highly calculated construct made to for people like me, but foremost it's made for Marvel to boast that it has taken an artform long disregarded as common, even lowbrow, and used it to elevate the medium. By artform, of course, I mean television. And comic books. And, well, industry-killing superhero franchises.
> 
> "WandaVision" is a calculated intersection of all three. It assumes an emotional connection to TV history and at the same time takes advantage of the ways that our interaction with the medium has evolved.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

WandaVision: An Expert's Guide to the New Marvel Show | Vanity Fair


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

WandaVision: A Complete Beginner's Guide to the New Marvel Show | Vanity Fair


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

It is definitely fresh and a great show. I hope all D+ shows are this good.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

So I watched the legends featurettes. I sort of knew that back story but never really watched all the movies all the way through. What I didn’t remember was the depth of the connection between them. Gives more emotional weight to the new series with this info....at least for me


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

stevel said:


> The "WandaVision" TV homages aren't mere storytelling gimmicks - they're strategic metacommentaries | Salon.com


I always love how critics try and make TV shows into more than what they are. I think it justifies them having a job where they get to write about TV shows


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> I always love how critics try and make TV shows into more than what they are. I think it justifies them having a job where they get to write about TV shows


I always love how TV viewers refuse to believe there can be more to a show than they see themselves.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I always love how TV viewers refuse to believe there can be more to a show than they see themselves.


While that might be true, the only critic that matters is yourself. Everyone gets what they want out of a show. A critic is just someone with ONE opinion who gets paid for doing it (and sometimes doesn't). When I've read where some critics have come from (often they are aspiring writers who are thrown into the critics role to get started at a newspaper), it made me wonder why they are more qualified to write about TV than I am? The reason? Because they are professional writers, not necessarily film school graduates. This particular critic has been at it for a long time, but again, I don't see where she's any more qualified than you, me or anyone else to comment on TV for a living. This is her "about" page:

McTelevision



> Oddly enough, her mother said absolutely nothing about whether watching television at other people's houses was off-limits. As a result of many wasted after-school hours gawking at MTV and other boob tube delights on the living room floors of relative strangers, *McFarland would eventually build a career out of watching and thinking critically about the television medium in all of its variety, wonder and horror.*


But that's just it, she built a career out of it because, well, like a lot of us, she watched TV. She's essentially doing what we do here, discussing shows, talking about nuance and seeing things differently. But like every critic, you, I or any 5 year old watching TV, we are going to see things differently. Only she gets paid for doing it. She has certainly is considered a respected critic. But pretty much every point she made in this article were points we've made in this thread. None of us that I'm aware of are professional critics.


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## ehusen (Jan 7, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> I always love how critics try and make TV shows into more than what they are. I think it justifies them having a job where they get to write about TV shows


"And of course, with the birth of the artist came the inevitable afterbirth... the critic."


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

ehusen said:


> "And of course, with the birth of the artist came the inevitable afterbirth... the critic."


History of the World Part I?


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## ehusen (Jan 7, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> History of the World Part I?


Yup.  You win today's Internet Gold Star for esoteric trivia...


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

ehusen said:


> Yup.  You win today's Internet Gold Star for esoteric trivia...


I love Mel Brooks and I have seen that movie numerous times. And also fresh in my mind with Cloris Leechmann passing yesterday.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I always love how TV viewers refuse to believe there can be more to a show than they see themselves.


What, this show didn't take 2 Marvel Superheroes and place them in a sitcom for 9 episodes?

-smak-


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Nice new ep, was left with wanting more. Good to see what happens when people come back from the Snap (or the Blip as they call it in universe).

So the theory that Wanda created this universe for herself was correct. They told us the names of the other “actors” in the show, but not much else about who they are or where they came from.


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

OK, show is turning into something that I'm liking. I figured it would. Bummed I have to wait a week to see more.


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> They told us the names of the other "actors" in the show, but not much else about who they are or where they came from.


On the board where they were putting their pictures, they also put up their drivers license. Looked like they were all from New Jersey. I guess I assume Wanda took over a town, and these were the residents of that town.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

So timeline - Obvious spoilers for the MCU up until this point.

Vision died right before The Snap when Thanos ripped the stone out of his head.
Thanos snapped 1/2 of life away - Wanda and Monica were both snapped.

*Five Years Passes*
Smart Hulk snaps them all back.
Wanda and Monica come back. Monica comes back where she was sitting by her mother's hospital bed beforehand. Wanda comes back to Wakanda, comes through the portal, says, "You took everything from me" to Thanos, and kicks his ass before he calls for a rain fire. Tony Stark snaps the bad guys away, dies.
Tony Stark's funeral, the Guardians of the Galaxy and Thor leave.

*Three Weeks Pass after the unsnap*
Wanda goes nuts out of grief and creates her own little universe in Westview, NJ. Happened sometime during the three weeks but we are not sure when.
Monica goes back to work at S.W.O.R.D. which was founded by her mother.
Her first assignment is go check out Westview
Monica gets sucked in, the feds swoop down, Darcy and Woo show up.

*24-48 hours after Monica got sucked in (no matter how much time seems to have passed in the fake world)*
Wanda realizes Monica is an outsider and kicks her out.

Sound right?


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

Sounds good. As far as needing supplemental info to enjoy the show...honestly had never heard of SWORD. Needed you tube videos for that. What about your average Joe who never heard of the Avengers happens to tune in?? I think he would be lost. Would he/she enjoy the show? I cant say cuz I am one of those people who know as much as possible. Had no knowledge of Wandas backstory. Had to read up on that when WV started. Many rabbit holes to get lost in!!!


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

Damn, I forgot a new episode dropped today and read the first new post.


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

Hoffer said:


> On the board where they were putting their pictures, they also put up their drivers license. Looked like they were all from New Jersey. I guess I assume Wanda took over a town, and these were the residents of that town.


Prevalent theory is that Wanda is resurrecting dead people for her "show", including Vision.

Westview must have been created near by a cemetary.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

mattyro7878 said:


> Sounds good. As far as needing supplemental info to enjoy the show...honestly had never heard of SWORD. Needed you tube videos for that. What about your average Joe who never heard of the Avengers happens to tune in?? I think he would be lost. Would he/she enjoy the show? I cant say cuz I am one of those people who know as much as possible. Had no knowledge of Wandas backstory. Had to read up on that when WV started. Many rabbit holes to get lost in!!!


The show isn't for the Average Joe who never heard of Avengers, but you don't need to know every detail of the MCU either.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

mattyro7878 said:


> Sounds good. As far as needing supplemental info to enjoy the show...honestly had never heard of SWORD. Needed you tube videos for that. What about your average Joe who never heard of the Avengers happens to tune in?? I think he would be lost. Would he/she enjoy the show? I cant say cuz I am one of those people who know as much as possible. Had no knowledge of Wandas backstory. Had to read up on that when WV started. Many rabbit holes to get lost in!!!


Why do you need YouTube videos? They just explained it to you in this episode.

-smak-


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

smak said:


> Why do you need YouTube videos? They just explained it to you in this episode.


And if you watch the YouTube videos, you'll probably be even more confused...because this SWORD is pretty much entirely different than the comic book SWORD. So I was a little confused until they explained the TV SWORD, because SWORD wasn't making much sense in light of my comic book knowledge.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Really good Marvel-y episode today. I'm glad things are coming together now.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

When they identified all of the “actors” playing characters on the “show,” they did not identify Agnes.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

mattyro7878 said:


> What about your average Joe who never heard of the Avengers happens to tune in?? I think he would be lost. Would he/she enjoy the show?


The answer is, yes, no, maybe.

I know almost nothing about the MCU. I've watched Guardians of the Galaxy, and I think one Thor movie. I'm culturally literate enough to know about the Snap, and half the world died (I think). I didn't know they came back (Smart Hulk?). I don't have any idea who Wanda or Vision is, don't think I've ever seen or heard of them.

I've been watching just to see what it is. At thirty minutes or less, there's not much investment of time required. I've been able to mostly follow so far, but now it's starting to get too in-house for me. It's still enjoyable to watch (I could watch Kat D throw shade all day long). But I have a feeling the story is going to start requiring some MCU knowledge to make sense.

PS: Don't feel obligated to try and explain the last twenty years of MCU. That's not why I posted. I was simply answering the question.

Edit to add: I've also watched Black Panther and WW/WW84. I think BP is MCU, but WW is the other family.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

You can watch the 2 Marvel legends episodes to see what's been going on with Wanda & Vision in the MCU. That's all you need.

-smak-


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

Has it been stated why the credits are so long on this show (compared to others)?


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## Bill Reeves (Jul 18, 2002)

smak said:


> You can watch the 2 Marvel legends episodes to see what's been going on with Wanda & Vision in the MCU. That's all you need.
> 
> -smak-


But ideally, he shouldn't have to watch anything extra - it should be self-contained.

With that said, I thought the fourth episode did a pretty good job of compressing a number of years worth of MCU history without having Captain Exposition show up in a voiceover saying exactly what was happening and why. We didn't need to know Agent Woo or Dr. Lewis' history, and the confusion of the post-blip environment and the first scenes at S.W.O.R.D. contained a lot of explanation without being super explicit. But I'm not the best judge since I've seen all the movies - the real test is if someone who's not a superfan can get the gist without having to watch extra explainer videos.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Random User 7 said:


> Has it been stated why the credits are so long on this show (compared to others)?


That seems pretty typical of Disney + shows...for some reason, they run the credits in several different languages, consecutively.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Bill Reeves said:


> But ideally, he shouldn't have to watch anything extra - it should be self-contained.
> .


Why?


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

smak said:


> 2 Marvel legends episodes


You already lost me . I told you, I know nothing.



Bill Reeves said:


> But ideally, he shouldn't have to watch anything extra - it should be self-contained.


Eh, I can see both sides. If they can't tell the story they want to tell, unless you know the background, then just tell the story and live with the consequences.

It is tough for a newbie to fully enjoy, but can they make it so a newbie can even watch? Do they care? We'll see. I'm still in.

I started watching Iron Man (I) today. Figure I'll watch the MCU in order. I should be caught up by WandaVision S4.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

We need to give the actor that plays Vision real credit for his expressions at the 27-28 minute mark. They had an absolutely perfect "I'm trapped with a crazy lady, forced smile, pretend I'm having fun, forced smile, ... forced smile" vibe to them.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

kdmorse said:


> We need to give the actor that plays Vision real credit for his expressions at the 27-28 minute mark. They had an absolutely perfect "I'm trapped with a crazy lady, forced smile, pretend I'm having fun, forced smile, ... forced smile" vibe to them.


One thing I'll say for the MCU in general...they have an eye for talent. They've always had a mix of first-rate established actors and first-rate unknown actors.


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## Bill Reeves (Jul 18, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> Why?


I guess if you're making a show that you only want to appeal to people who have seen this, that and the other, then by all means, you can exclude new viewers, but most TV shows don't want to intentionally exclude some of their potential audience.

And it's not impossible to work in references without having Basil Exposition show up. Like I said, I thought this episode did pretty well.

My kid is reading The Odyssey in his English class. They did not read The Iliad first. But there are a lot of references to things that happened in The Iliad. These references would have been familiar to the original audience, who grew up with those stories and knew very well what happened in the Trojan War, but for a class of 9th graders in California in the year 2021, they know more about the MCU than they do about ancient Greek stories. So when Homer drops a reference to Agamemnon, people who know the background know what that means, while my kid's class has to try to pick it up from context, or to have it explained to them.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

The MCU movies are the highest grossing in history. Plus, they are all there on Disney+ for anyone to watch.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I'm not convinced there is anything truly confusing about this show beyond its basic premise...i.e., there is a central mystery, and I suspect most newbies are confused by the mystery, not by lacking a detailed knowledge of the MCU.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

dtle said:


> Prevalent theory is that Wanda is resurrecting dead people for her "show", including Vision.
> 
> Westview must have been created near by a cemetary.


I thought the prevalent theory was that the townspeople were Hydra or AIM agents?

Personally I'm assuming things are as they seem from this episode, since it was seen from an "outsiders" perspective. The "actors" in the town are the townspeople who live there.

Wanda came in took control of them and made neighboring people forget the town exists. She defiantly has the power to control people's minds. She used that in Age of Ultron.

The only time the townspeople regained their will is when Wanda remembered Pietro's death since she was distracted. That was also when Monica remember Ultron, which caused Wanda to realize she wasn't from the town and kick her out. (Which was basically what my spoiler post I posted last week said).

I'm glad they didn't wait till the last few episodes to let us in on what's going on.

Things we don't know at this point is why Wanda is doing all this. Did she just "crack" and this is her way of coping or is it something else? Also is Wanda "playing" Vision's part or did she reanimate his "corpse" and put his mind into it?


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Bill Reeves said:


> But ideally, he shouldn't have to watch anything extra - it should be self-contained.
> 
> With that said, I thought the fourth episode did a pretty good job of compressing a number of years worth of MCU history without having Captain Exposition show up in a voiceover saying exactly what was happening and why. We didn't need to know Agent Woo or Dr. Lewis' history, and the confusion of the post-blip environment and the first scenes at S.W.O.R.D. contained a lot of explanation without being super explicit. But I'm not the best judge since I've seen all the movies - the real test is if someone who's not a superfan can get the gist without having to watch extra explainer videos.


It is self contained. But if you're blindly watching a show set in the 50's with a woman with tons of powers and an android, and there was more information out there, I'd think you'd want to see it.

Anywhere from 15 minutes with the 2 Legends shows, up to hours and hours with the movies.

-smak-


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

morac said:


> I thought the prevalent theory was that the townspeople were Hydra or AIM agents?


That was the old prevalent theory. Gotta keep up!


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

I really doubt they are dead, because when SWORD found out who they were, them being dead probably would have been a major discussion point between them.

-smak-


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

So what do the townspeople know? Herb and Agnes obviously know something. Herb said to Vision “We’re all....” before Agnes cut him off. All dead? All prisoners? Vision is dead, so maybe they’re dead too?

Agnes and Dottie weren’t identified by SWORD. Dottie confronted Wanda saying that she didn’t believe that Wanda meant no harm. 

Why was Herb cutting through the wall?


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Bill Reeves said:


> But ideally, he shouldn't have to watch anything extra - it should be self-contained.
> 
> With that said, I thought the fourth episode did a pretty good job of compressing a number of years worth of MCU history without having Captain Exposition show up in a voiceover saying exactly what was happening and why. We didn't need to know Agent Woo or Dr. Lewis' history, and the confusion of the post-blip environment and the first scenes at S.W.O.R.D. contained a lot of explanation without being super explicit. But I'm not the best judge since I've seen all the movies - the real test is if someone who's not a superfan can get the gist without having to watch extra explainer videos.


They did a great job post-blip. Gave enough explanation and told the story in a cool way. The movies sort of glossed over the expected confusion. Wandavision addressed it head on.

Finally truly liking this show. They took too long to get into the meat of the story. And most of the signposts in the first few episodes were complete nonsense.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That was the old prevalent theory. Gotta keep up!


In other words, it was all nonsense. Sometimes it's just better to just watch a show and not try to analyze every little thing.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

morac said:


> Things we don't know at this point is why Wanda is doing all this. Did she just "crack" and this is her way of coping or is it something else? Also is Wanda "playing" Vision's part or did she reanimate his "corpse" and put his mind into it?


She "cracked." Vision is dead. That fact slipped through when she saw his head with a hole blown in it. They can't have kids. She made that happen. She is trying to have a happy ending after losing her brother and her boyfriend (they never married in MCU or did they)?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> In other words, it was all nonsense. Sometimes it's just better to just watch a show and not try to analyze every little thing.


Aw, where's the fun in that?


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

They couldn’t have kids when he was alive either, due to him being an android.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I’ve said it before, but Olsen is so good at switching between the Wanda voice and the “Sitcom” voice.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> Why was Herb cutting through the wall?


The people in town are being controlled, but I doubt Wanda is controlling them at a low level. Herb was likely given the order to "trim the hedge". He didn't get new orders, so he just kept cutting into the wall when the hedge was gone. That was around the time Wanda's powers were going haywire.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

It was nice to see some of the immediate fall out from Bruce bringing all those people back.
(I never liked "The Snap". "The Blip" is better but not great.)

Jimmy Woo!
Darcy!
And some explanation of what is actually going.

I couldn't help but notice that they haven't identified Agnes yet.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

So who is the missing person that originally brought agent Woo to New Jersey? His search was quickly overtaken by Monica's disappearance.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

We don’t know.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TriBruin said:


> So who is the missing person that originally brought agent Woo to New Jersey? His search was quickly overtaken by Monica's disappearance.


It was the town.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Bill Reeves said:


> But ideally, he shouldn't have to watch anything extra - it should be self-contained.


Obviously YMMV but I don't enjoy shows that spoon feed me answers in 30/60m chunks.
There are plenty of shows that brought us a mystery and only much later started providing answers, it's a genre upon itself, easy examples are:
X-Files, Lost, Wayward Pines, Quantum Leap (in the beginning) Babylon 5, Stargate:Universe, and Journeyman (*sniff* journeyman, taken from us far too soon)


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

https://www.reddit.com/video/da3bh4jumbe61


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

Finally...the pay-off!!!

I really enjoyed this episode... As soon as I saw the "dust" assembling from the "blip", I had a smile on my face that wouldn't leave my face for the entire episode... Great stuff!!!

On the topic of whether these shows should be "self-contained" or not... Unfortunately, it's always going to be a trade-off... Do you choose to tell on origin story over and over again? Do you choose to start the series with a recap of everything you need to know for background? Or do you continue the story and leave everyone not "in the know" behind? Or some blend?

Fans who have invested the last 12 20 years familiarizing themselves with the MCU would be up in arms if they "dumbed" the storytelling down for the least common denominator... That said, they would be shooting themselves in the foot if it required a deep knowledge of the print, movie and television MCU content to consume and enjoy the series... Somehow they need to navigate the balance... And they've chosen that balance... The balance won't work for everyone...but hopefully it works for most...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

MikeekiM said:


> Fans who have invested the last 20 years familiarizing themselves with the MCU...


Not that it takes away from your point, but it's only been 12 years (a fact that never ceases to amaze me!).


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

TriBruin said:


> So who is the missing person that originally brought agent Woo to New Jersey? His search was quickly overtaken by Monica's disappearance.


I'm pretty sure his name was MacGuffin.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Not that it takes away from your point, but it's only been 12 years (a fact that never ceases to amaze me!).


LOL... Yeah, I was quickly typing that post and put "20", knowing that I was going to go back and fact check myself and correct it later...but forgot to do it! I am going to fix it now... LOL...

Thanks...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TriBruin said:


> So who is the missing person that originally brought agent Woo to New Jersey? His search was quickly overtaken by Monica's disappearance.





Rob Helmerichs said:


> It was the town.


Oops, that's what brought Monica. What brought the FBI was a missing Witness Protection Program witness. Then Jimmy discovered the whole town was missing, and called in SWORD.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

Grace's breakdown of S01E04...


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Just a warning, it looks like 6 episode was leaked and there are some major spoilers out there, especially on YouTube where I stumbled upon one that had the spoiler in the video thumbnail which of course YouTube recommended to me.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

There’s a trailer for the rest of the season which is spoilery out on the official Marvel/Disney YouTube channel.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> There's a trailer for the rest of the season which is spoilery out on the official Marvel/Disney YouTube channel.


Is that the one that came out yesterday? If so there was only one brief scene that was from a future episode, but nothing really major.

What I saw had a major spoiler (assuming the video was real).


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

Random User 7 said:


> Has it been stated why the credits are so long on this show (compared to others)?


They're "movie" closing credits instead of "TV show" closing credits. That's what happens when it's the Marvel Cinematic Universe.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Just watched E4 - my wife says she is now finding it interesting (I have been intrigued since E2 at least).

And now I understand Grace's behavior in her videos - she stays up until 3AM to watch the episode and THEN puts together the video. Manic!


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Is there a site that transcribed all of the notes about the "characters"? I mean like the attached. I had to take a picture of my screen with my phone because it doesn't allow screen capping and I don't know the workaround.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

trainman said:


> They're "movie" closing credits instead of "TV show" closing credits. That's what happens when it's the Marvel Cinematic Universe.


That's almost exactly what I said after sitting through the credits on episode 1 - "So this is what happens when you let movie people do a TV show."


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## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

Really enjoying the series, but do wish they'd dropped all the episodes at once. Or that I'd waited until they were all available to watch them.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I just realized something about Monica’s SWORD necklace. Monica didn’t enter Westview wearing a SWORD necklace, but a SWORD ID on a lanyard. It was retro-transformed into a necklace. That’s a pretty cool detail .


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Turtleboy said:


> I just realized something about Monica's SWORD necklace. Monica didn't enter Westview wearing a SWORD necklace, but a SWORD ID on a lanyard. It was retro-transformed into a necklace. That's a pretty cool detail.


Yeah, everything that entered Westview changed into something appropriate for Wandaworld. Including Monica herself!

So hazmat suit turns into beekeeper outfit (complete with bees!), drone turns into toy helicopter, etc.

Makes me wonder if the commercials might have been attempts by those organizations to communicate with Westview being similarly repurposed..?


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

stevel said:


> And now I understand Grace's behavior in her videos - she stays up until 3AM to watch the episode and THEN puts together the video. Manic!


I cannot stand her for more than a few minutes.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I wonder why she didn’t change back?


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

stevel said:


> And now I understand Grace's behavior in her videos - she stays up until 3AM to watch the episode and THEN puts together the video. Manic!


She also has a number theories that directly go against what was said in the show, for example she speculated that Wanda changed Eastview into Westview. I have no idea what she based that on, but in the show it was said Westview was a real town, so that "theory" makes no sense.

She should at least sleep on the episode before commenting on it.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

If you pause when they show the driver’s licenses of all of the “actors” on, they all have Westview as their city.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

Turtleboy said:


> They couldn't have kids when he was alive either, due to him being an android.


SYNTHEZOID seems to be the preferred term when referencing Vision. Maybe they used it in Ultron but it's the first time I've heard the term.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)




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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

Turtleboy said:


> Is there a site that transcribed all of the notes about the "characters"? I mean like the attached. I had to take a picture of my screen with my phone because it doesn't allow screen capping and I don't know the workaround.
> 
> View attachment 57100


The biggest point of the "notes" was that Vision had awoken this guy out if his Wand-induced reality ( which Vision also does to the kooky neighbor in a trailer). Suffice to say Vision has the ability to pull people out of the Wanda reality. Must be a function of the mind stone which is in Vision's head but doesn't exist anymore.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

Also. It seems after something enters Westview it changes to suit the reality of Westview. However, when something leaves like Capt Rambeau they remain changed. This may be a way to bring Vision back?


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

mattyro7878 said:


> The biggest point of the "notes" was that Vision had awoken this guy out if his Wand-induced reality ( which Vision also does to the kooky neighbor in a trailer). Suffice to say Vision has the ability to pull people out of the Wanda reality. Must be a function of the mind stone which is in Vision's head but doesn't exist anymore.


Well remember, the "notes" are what SWORD and the FBI are guessing or assuming is happening; similar to the note about "Skrulls". They may not be correct.

I'm assuming they were wrong about that since Monica wasn't with Vision when she suddenly recalled Ultron.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

smak said:


> You can watch the 2 Marvel legends episodes to see what's been going on with Wanda & Vision in the MCU. That's all you need.
> 
> -smak-





astrohip said:


> You already lost me . I told you, I know nothing.


@astrohip in case you still haven't found it, _Legends _is a separate series elsewhere in your Disney+ show grid. The layout is different on each device, but I've circled _Legends_ here:


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## doom1701 (May 15, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> If you pause when they show the driver's licenses of all of the "actors" on, they all have Westview as their city.


There Sheriff's deputies at the beginning of the episode seemed to have a glazed, screwed up memory look to them. I'm taking that to mean that Wanda's impact isn't just within the Westview "universe". She's impacting people on the outside, too, to keep things covered up. The deputies, Woo's "it doesn't want us to come in" comment, etc.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> @astrohip in case you still haven't found it, _Legends _is a separate series elsewhere in your Disney+ show grid. The layout is different on each device, but I've circled _Legends_ here:
> 
> View attachment 57128


Thanks, appreciate your finding this. But what is it?


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

astrohip said:


> Thanks, appreciate your finding this. But what is it?


Just collections of movie clips, one on Wanda and one on Vision. They will either catch you up on the history of those characters ...or further confuse you.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Random User 7 said:


> Has it been stated why the credits are so long on this show (compared to others)?


WandaVision S1 Spoilers


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Re discussion of the long long credits, I just want to add that Netflix and others also put many minutes of dubbing credits at the end, but way before then it's already shrunk down to a little box. At that point the main screen is showing you choices for the next episode or similar shows, and usually a countdown to automatically loading the next in the list.

The show should then be considered completely watched, but on D+ the progress bar beneath each episode in the list will indicate that you haven't completely watched the entire thing. I'm sure they'll figure out a better way to handle this eventually (though hopefully not with a countdown; I hate racing against that when I actually do want to see the credits).

(Tag: @Fixer @Random User 7 @wmcbrine)


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Just collections of movie clips, one on Wanda and one on Vision. They will either catch you up on the history of those characters ...or further confuse you.


Thanks. I'll give them a try.

I still would like to watch the entire MCU. Some day.  I watched Iron Man (I) this weekend*, which I understand was the very first MCU movie. Amazing it was only 2008, seems like much longer ago. I need to find a list of the proper order to watch them. FWIW, I have Netflix, D+, Prime, HBO~MAX. Hopefully they're all on one of those four.

_
* In the words of Confucius, a journey of a thousand movies starts with a single viewing._


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

astrohip said:


> Thanks. I'll give them a try.
> 
> I still would like to watch the entire MCU. Some day.  I watched Iron Man (I) this weekend*, which I understand was the very first MCU movie. Amazing it was only 2008, seems like much longer ago. I need to find a list of the proper order to watch them. FWIW, I have Netflix, D+, Prime, HBO~MAX. Hopefully they're all on one of those four.
> 
> ...


If you really haven't watched much or any, probably best to just watch in release order. Though some people will suggest maybe skipping a movie here or there.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

Iron Man has always been my favorite marvel character. My friends family had a comic store when I was growing up and I helped with setting up the store, sorting/bagging comics. I had three piles, to be bagged, bagged, and Mike’s reading, which was mostly iron man (I got paid in hot dogs, so I took breaks when I wanted). 

The original movie is still my favorite MCU. I do find the phones funny. Iron Man was pre-Smart Phone and I remember thinking the featured (Nokia?) phone was so cool.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> If you really haven't watched much or any, *probably best to just watch in release order*. Though some people will suggest maybe skipping a movie here or there.


So these aren't Star Wars movies? Watch the originals first. Make sure you watch the second one synced with _Dark Side of the Moon_. Then watch the first half of the first prequel, the last half of the second prequel, and just the title scroll of the third one. Then watch the first sequel, and then the fanboy's edit of the last two on YouTube.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

astrohip said:


> Thanks. I'll give them a try.
> 
> I still would like to watch the entire MCU. Some day.  I watched Iron Man (I) this weekend*, which I understand was the very first MCU movie. Amazing it was only 2008, seems like much longer ago. I need to find a list of the proper order to watch them. FWIW, I have Netflix, D+, Prime, HBO~MAX. Hopefully they're all on one of those four.
> 
> ...


Looks like Disney + has all but Hulk and Spider-Man. Their timeline order under the marvel section looks right but their release order breaks down in phases 3 and 4.

Here is a link:

Marvel Movies in Order: How to Watch Chronologically or by Release Date

Incredible Hulk seems to be available only via rental. As is Spider-Man Homecoming.

I'd do release order as the movies were made with the understanding of what the audience has seen thus far. Hulk is a waste of time, IMO. Homecoming isn't.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

SullyND said:


> Iron Man has always been my favorite marvel character. My friends family had a comic store when I was growing up and I helped with setting up the store, sorting/bagging comics. I had three piles, to be bagged, bagged, and Mike's reading, which was mostly iron man (I got paid in hot dogs, so I took breaks when I wanted).
> 
> The original movie is still my favorite MCU. I do find the phones funny. Iron Man was pre-Smart Phone and I remember thinking the featured (Nokia?) phone was so cool.


I really enjoyed it. Fun, and fast. Didn't realize Gwyneth was part of the MCU (maybe that's all she was in... TBD). And yeah, I noticed the phones. Old cell phones really stand out in any movies these day.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> If you really haven't watched much or any, probably best to just watch in release order.


Absolutely. It's literally how they were made to be watched.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

astrohip said:


> So these aren't Star Wars movies? Watch the originals first. Make sure you watch the second one synced with _Dark Side of the Moon_. Then watch the first half of the first prequel, the last half of the second prequel, and just the title scroll of the third one. Then watch the first sequel, and then the fanboy's edit of the last two on YouTube.


It's like Star Wars in that the movies came out in a certain order. They are all originals. This isn't like star wars where they made a few over 30 years ago then had a pause. then made another batch.. thena pause with another batch. It's been pretty continuous since 'Iron Man'

Now, there are points where the time line jumps around a bit. But that's all by design.


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## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> I'm sure they'll figure out a better way to handle this eventually (though hopefully not with a countdown; I hate racing against that when I actually do want to see the credits).
> 
> (Tag: @Fixer @Random User 7 @wmcbrine)


Turn off auto-play and you don't have to worry about the next episode starting before you're ready. I hate auto-play with a passion. It's usually the first setting I look for when installing a streaming app. Drives me nuts that I can't turn it off on HBO Max. Lol


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

hapster85 said:


> Turn off auto-play and you don't have to worry about the next episode starting before you're ready. I hate auto-play with a passion. It's usually the first setting I look for when installing a streaming app. Drives me nuts that I can't turn it off on HBO Max. Lol


On HBO Max, when the credits start rolling I hit FF a couple of times to get through the credits quickly. That bypasses auto-play without leaving the show in your "continue watching" list..


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

mattyro7878 said:


> Sounds good. As far as needing supplemental info to enjoy the show...honestly had never heard of SWORD. Needed you tube videos for that. What about your average Joe who never heard of the Avengers happens to tune in?? I think he would be lost. Would he/she enjoy the show? I cant say cuz I am one of those people who know as much as possible. Had no knowledge of Wandas backstory. Had to read up on that when WV started. Many rabbit holes to get lost in!!!


It helps to have a son who's heavily invested in the MCU sitting next to you and explaining what's going on. I agree, up until this point, I think you could get away with just the premise of this show without much knowledge of the MCU. I think this episode changed that. Without my son explaining all of what @Turtleboy wrote above, I'd be lost.

I figured out though that it was New Jersey (which made me smile) and that Wanda "made" this town. But I have no idea why she would do that and needed someone to explain what SWORD was.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> The show isn't for the Average Joe who never heard of Avengers, but you don't need to know every detail of the MCU either.


I think up until this week, it could have been. I was enjoying the 50s and 60s flashbacks and the other fun stuff.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

smak said:


> You can watch the 2 Marvel legends episodes to see what's been going on with Wanda & Vision in the MCU. That's all you need.
> 
> -smak-


I watched those and they confused me more. They seemed to just be snippets from a bunch of movies without really explaining much.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> Why?


Because it doubles your audience. You are vested in the MCU so you don't see why that should be, but I'm not, and I prefer to not have to spend time trying to figure out what's going on. When you watch The Mandelorian, it stands well by itself, even if you only have a little bit of pop culture knowledge of the SWU (is that a thing? Star Wars Universe?) That should be the same here. Make a show that everyone can enjoy and you have a hit. Make a show that only those familiar with the universe fans know and you limit your audience.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

There’s zero part of this show that you need prior knowledge. 

If you didn’t know who yoda was, the mandalorian is a much different show. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

smak said:


> There's zero part of this show that you need prior knowledge.


Yeah, as I said before, I think some people are conflating the confusion that comes from the central mysteries of the show with the confusion that comes from lack of prior knowledge. I think, really, there's a lot of the former and precious little of the latter.

I mean, people are complaining about not knowing what SWORD is. But SWORD as shown in this show is entirely different than the SWORD of the comics, and it has only been mentioned in passing in the movies. So literally everything we know about the MCU SWORD is what we've been told in this show. And it hasn't yet been fully explained (although I think it's been explained a lot more than some people realize, but that would be a storytelling issue, not a prior knowledge issue).


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

I watched all 4 Avenger movies again and they still keep my interest. The MCU is truly a marvel.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

smak said:


> There's zero part of this show that you need prior knowledge.
> 
> If you didn't know who yoda was, the mandalorian is a much different show.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Maybe a more accurate show since despite the nickname, the kid isn't Baby Yoda.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> it has only been mentioned in passing in the movies.


According to Wikipedia (so we _know_ it's true, lol) there was one mention of S.W.O.R.D. but it was deleted. wikipedia.org/wiki/S.W.O.R.D._(comics)#In_other_media


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> According to Wikipedia (so we _know_ it's true, lol) there was one mention of S.W.O.R.D. but it was deleted. wikipedia.org/wiki/S.W.O.R.D._(comics)#In_other_media


Hmmm...I vaguely remember hearing it mentioned...maybe in the last Avengers movie?


----------



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Hmmm...I vaguely remember hearing it mentioned...maybe in the last Avengers movie?


Final episode of Agents of Shield? Slightly different universe, and I don't think it was mentioned by name, just strongly implied...


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I wonder of people will have the same sort of complaints about "The Falcon and The Winter Soldier"


----------



## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Finally watched Ultron and Civil War so I could start watching WandaVision.  Read this whole thread and watched the accompanying easter egg videos, ad nauseum. Whew, what a rabbit hole.

Does anyone know the significance of 2800, their house number? It's extremely prominent on every incarnation of the house. Haven't seen anyone mention it.


----------



## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> I wonder of people will have the same sort of complaints about "The Falcon and The Winter Soldier"


Depends on if their first two episodes are sitcom-ish!


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

kdmorse said:


> Final episode of Agents of Shield? Slightly different universe, and I don't think it was mentioned by name, just strongly implied...


Looking deeper, I was thinking about Spider-Man: Far From Home, where we see Nick Fury in his new job on a satellite. And you're right, it wasn't explicitly named as SWORD, but it was pretty obvious to comic book fans.


----------



## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Oh, the other question I had was: some sites reference S.W.O.R.D. as Sentient World etc and some as Sentient Weapon. I think the show uses Weapon. Is World from the comics?

EDIT: I also see that World is Department, but Weapon is Division.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

martinp13 said:


> Oh, the other question I had was: some sites reference S.W.O.R.D. as Sentient Worlds etc and some as Sentient Weapon. I think the show uses Weapon. Is World from the comics?


Yes. In the comics, it protects the Earth from alien threats. On the show, it's apparently geared towards fighting AI (e.g., Vision).

By the way, SWORD was a Joss Whedon creation, from his days on the X-Men. Which is probably why they had trouble introducing it sooner, since it's so tied to the X-Men comics, mutants, and Fox movie rights.


----------



## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

astrohip said:


> So these aren't Star Wars movies?


No, the Star Wars movies should also be watched in release order. It's easy, there are only three.


----------



## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

I have watched the entire MCU movie run of 23 films 3x... And I am going in for a 4th viewing with my daughter... I own them all digitally on Vudu, but only in HDX... So this fourth time I am going to use my Disney Plus account and watch them all in 4K UHD!!!

I use a modified order (not a theatrical release order), which is largely based on the temporal order of the films, which makes Captain America: First Avenger the first film, and Captain Marvel the second film... Weird order, yes...but it works for me... I pulled the order off the AMC Theater's website here:

Watch The Marvel Movies In Order

Here's the order I view them in:

1. Captain America: The First Avenger
2. Captain Marvel
3. Iron Man
4. Iron Man 2
5. The Incredible Hulk
6. Thor
7. The Avengers
8. Thor: The Dark World
9. Guardians of the Galaxy
10. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2
11. Iron Man 3
12. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
13. Avengers: Age of Ultron
14. Ant-Man
15. Captain America: Civil War
16. Black Panther
17. Spider-Man: Homecoming
18. Doctor Strange
19. Thor: Ragnarok
20. Ant-Man and the Wasp
21. Avengers: Infinity War
22. Avengers: Endgame
23. Spider-Man: Far From Home


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

MikeekiM said:


> I have watched the entire MCU movie run of 23 films 3x... And I am going in for a 4th viewing with my daughter... I own them all digitally on Vudu, but only in HDX... *So this fourth time I am going to use my Disney Plus account and watch them all in 4K UHD!!!*


well not ALL of them


----------



## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> well not ALL of them


Ah... Are they not all available in 4K/UHD? D*mn...


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

MikeekiM said:


> Ah... Are they not all available in 4K/UHD? D*mn...


Not all available.


----------



## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> On HBO Max, when the credits start rolling I hit FF a couple of times to get through the credits quickly. That bypasses auto-play without leaving the show in your "continue watching" list..


Interesting. I'll have to keep that in mind for viewing of some content. Wouldn't help with everything, though. Friends, for example, overlays credits on the final scene, so skipping ahead wouldn't be desirable.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

smak said:


> Not all available.


Right. Incredible Hulk and Spider-Man Homecoming are not available on Disney+. As I reported earlier.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> When you watch The Mandelorian, it stands well by itself, even if you only have a little bit of pop culture knowledge of the SWU (is that a thing? Star Wars Universe?) That should be the same here.


Funny that you use The Mandelorian as a counter-example as there were a number of people complaining in the thread that season 2 required too much SWU knowledge.


----------



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

TonyD79 said:


> Right. Incredible Hulk and Spider-Man Homecoming are not available on Disney+. As I reported earlier.


That's a strange and oddly specific omission. Any explanation as to why those two seem to be missing from the streaming universe?


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

kdmorse said:


> That's a strange and oddly specific omission. Any explanation as to why those two seem to be missing from the streaming universe?


Yes

Sony owns the distribution rights to Spider-Man movies
Universal owns the rights to Hulk movie.

Disney doesn't have a deal with either at this time to have them on Disney+


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

And Sony doesn’t seem to have them on any subscription service. I can only find them as rent or buy.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Hulk is Universal, so you'd think Peacock, but I don't see it.

-smak-


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I suspect Universal just doesn't have pumping Disney product as a top priority...


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Hmmm...I vaguely remember hearing it mentioned...maybe in the last Avengers movie?





kdmorse said:


> Final episode of Agents of Shield? Slightly different universe, and I don't think it was mentioned by name, just strongly implied...


I could've sworn I'd heard it mentioned in an MCU film or in Agents. If we figure this out, I'll update Wikipedia myself!


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> I could've sworn I'd heard it mentioned in an MCU film or in Agents. If we figure this out, I'll update Wikipedia myself!


It was highly assumed that Daisy was working for SWORD at the end of AOS. She was headed to space, but nothing actually said she was.

-smak-


----------



## dcushing (Sep 25, 2001)

Having caught up, I have a theory on who Agnes is (based on comic knowledge, no information from the show at all):



Spoiler



Agatha Harkness


----------



## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I suspect Universal just doesn't have pumping Disney product as a top priority...


Universal has a whole big chunk of one of their theme parks in Florida dedicated to Marvel. (And their contract pretty much prevents Disney from using Marvel at Disney World).


----------



## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

SullyND said:


> Universal has a whole big chunk of one of their theme parks in Florida dedicated to Marvel. (And their contract pretty much prevents Disney from using Marvel at Disney World).


Until Disney buys Universal


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

robojerk said:


> Until Disney buys Universal


Not gonna happen considering Universal is owned by Comcast. It would be funny if it did though since Comcast tried to buy Disney many, many years ago.


----------



## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

I don't know. If you told me Disney would buy Fox a few years ago I would have said no way. But now, why not buy Universal/Comcast? There'd still be AT&T/HBO, Netflix, WB, CBS/Sony

There's still other theme parks too..

Im not advocating for it, I thought the Fox thing was crazy, so all bets are off now.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

robojerk said:


> I don't know. If you told me Disney would buy Fox a few years ago I would have said no way. But now, why not buy Universal/Comcast? There'd still be AT&T/HBO, Netflix, WB, CBS/Sony
> 
> There's still other theme parks too..
> 
> Im not advocating for it, I thought the Fox thing was crazy, so all bets are off now.


Fox was just a TV and movie studio. Comcast is a monolith that owns studios, theme parks and an ISP with 29.4 million paying broadband customers (which prints Comcast money).

5 Companies Owned by Comcast

Comcast's net worth is $205.68 billion. Disney's is $140 billion. Even if a mega merger like that was approved, Disney couldn't afford to buy Comcast.

What Is Disney Net Worth in 2020?

https://revenuesandprofits.com/comcast-net-worth-earnings-2019-how-much-money-this-company-makes/


----------



## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

Agreed, Disney wouldn’t buy Universal. I’ve more recently seen Disney rumored to be an acquisition target (Apple?).


----------



## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

There's no way that the US Regulatory board would allow Disney to buy Universal. They are the #1 and #2 players in the movie industry.


----------



## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

robojerk said:


> But now, why not buy Universal/Comcast?


There's a new U.S. administration that's more likely to care about anti-trust.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Wow, this opens up so many possibilities, and basically sets the table for the next 4-5 years of the MCU.

And remember who his (they're?) dad is.

-smak-


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

So much going on in Ep 5.

The X-rays and Blood labs are showing all sorts of errors on Monica. Probably has superpowers now.

Brother from another mother? How about brother from another series? But did they make a point to say that Wanda an Pietro were the children of people other than Magneto? Maybe they did that on purpose. 

The twins have their own powers. Wanda isn't aging them, either they are doing it themselves, or Agnes is doing it, as she was there when they aged both times. 

Dr. Strange and the Multiverse of Madness? Maybe it's Wanda's madness.


----------



## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

Some podcast I listen to was wondering if her brother would appear on the show. They then wondered if the Fox X-Men version of Quicksilver would play the part, but they felt that would be too ridiculous. Crazy that is the route they went, but I think it's pretty cool.


----------



## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

Hey X-Men, welcome to the MCU!!!


----------



## Bill Reeves (Jul 18, 2002)

I did not have bringing in an actor from the X-Men movies on my WandaVision bingo card.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Hoffer said:


> Some podcast I listen to was wondering if her brother would appear on the show. They then wondered if the Fox X-Men version of Quicksilver would play the part, but they felt that would be too ridiculous. Crazy that is the route they went, but I think it's pretty cool.


Funny thing is, Elizabeth Olsen said the exact same thing in an interview awhile ago, that it would be too crazy, but she was saying it in the spirit of that it would be really cool, but she didn't think Marvel would go that crazy.

-smak-


----------



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

So.... How stupid do you have to be to take that shot at Wanda, inside her own reality bubble, with her looking right at you, eyes already glowing red...


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

kdmorse said:


> So.... How stupid do you have to be to take that shot at Wanda, inside her own reality bubble, with her looking right at you, eyes already glowing red...


Comic book stupid.


----------



## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

kdmorse said:


> So.... How stupid do you have to be to take that shot at Wanda, inside her own reality bubble, with her looking right at you, eyes already glowing red...


I said out loud "why would you do that?" You just knew it would end bad.


----------



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

This is getting interesting. It doesn't look like the series will end well for Wanda. Dacry remarking on the recasting was very interesting. 

Wanda's accent changing when she left Westview was a great touch.

And I have to come to the defense of the guy in charge. Everything he said was spot on. We all know Wanda isn't a villain, but from his perspective, she's pretty bad. If it was Gorilla Grod and not Wanda, everything he tried would be spot on.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

He still may be an undercover Hydra operative, only because the bosses often are.


----------



## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

Gah ... It gets better every week. Definitely gonna have to watch the series again after all the eps are available. 

On a sidenote, it's interesting that Disney+ keeps presenting me with Age of Ultron at the end of every episode. Doesn't seem possible that movie is almost 6 years old!


----------



## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

Turtleboy said:


> So much going on in Ep 5.
> 
> The X-rays and Blood labs are showing all sorts of errors on Monica. Probably has superpowers now.
> 
> ...


Can you explain this to me? I know the marvel movies and have watched the X-men movies, but who is the brother? Also is she a child of Magneto? Dump all the info on me if you're up to it. I'd love to understand.


----------



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Random User 7 said:


> Can you explain this to me? I know the marvel movies and have watched the X-men movies, but who is the brother? Also is she a child of Magneto? Dump all the info on me if you're up to it. I'd love to understand.


Short non-spoilery version:

In the MCU she grew up with her brother Pietro Maximoff (aka Quicksilver, given flash-like powers from an infinity stone) in Sokovia. He was killed in a fight with Ultron(s).

In the unrelated X-Men Movie Universe, Peter Maximoff (aka Quicksilver, mutant son of mutant Magneto, with Flash like powers), is living in the US, helps out the x-men a couple of times, likes to run very fast to music. Different universe, different franchise. He has two half sisters in that franchise, I don't think (?) either of them are Wanda.

The X-Men Movie franchise Peter just showed up at MCU franchise's Wanda's door in her manufactured reality. She was bemoaning the loss of family, including her own brother, and either she, or some other force, plucked the Quicksilver right out of a different studio's universe and dropped him at her door.


----------



## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

Okay, so I didn’t know Wanda and Pietro were fathered by Magneto. I knew Pietro died from Avengers Ultron but not that he was Quicksilver. While I’ve seen the X-men movies I don’t remember them like the MCU movies and I never read the comics.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

the whole new but not new Pietro thing still confuses the hell out of me even after reading all the explanations


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

So when wanda visited SWORD, and went back inside Eastview, she made the "wall" red. To me that's her closing it off from anybody else coming through.

But then Pietro shows up. So he either was already inside, or it's not really live breathing Pietro.

-smak-


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Real world answer

Before Marvel started making their own movies, they licensed out some of their characters - The X-Men to Fox and Spider-Man to Sony. In the comics, Scarlett Witch and Quicksilver were Avengers (and sometimes bad guys), who were mutants the children of Magneto. So when Marvel started making their own movies, they wanted to use them. But because they were Magento’s children who were mutants, there was an issue. They weren’t allowed to use mutants. Marvel and Fox made a deal. Marvel could use QS and SW, but they couldn’t be mutants, and they couldn’t be Magneto’s children. They were the children of some random Sakovians who got their powers through Hydra experiments.

Then Disney bought Marvel and later Fox. So the contractual issues regarding using them as mutants isn’t there anymore. This could be a way to start to integrate the X-Men movieverse into the MCU.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

It's very possible they retcon their origins, and have them be mutants, and HYDRA just opened up their latent abilities.

-smak-


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

I'm not 100% convinced that this is real flesh and blood Peter Maximoff pulled from a different universe.

I guess he's from Earth 10005, and this takes place in Earth 616.

I would like it to be, because I can imagine all the cool things that can happen in the rest of the series.

And if he's not, than I really don't know what's going on.

-smak-


----------



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Like everyone else in the comics, I think their origin has been retcon'd more times than you can shake a stick at. I know at one point they were no longer children of Magneto, but were... kidnapped by aliens and experimented on to give them latent abilities, and then returned to their parents to be raised on Earth. Which is actually closer to the MCU origin than not.

Like everything else, you just gotta kinda go with the flow.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

In show answer:

Wanda can't bring living creatures back from the dead. She couldn't bring the dog back and she can't bring her Pietro back. Vision is an android so maybe that's why she can bring him back. We don't know. I still think that her Pietro may show up at some point too. Wanda didn't recognize this Pietro. He kind of looked like hers, but she was very confused when she saw him. Like other comics movies, there is a multiverse of different universes. In the Spider-Man cartoon we saw different universes where different people became Spider-Man - Peter Parker, Gwen Stacey, Miles Morales.

The X-Men universe is a different multiverse and this could be how they are going to integrate them in.

The Dr. Strange sequel is called "Dr. Strange and the Multiverse of Madness". So it will include the multiverse, with different comic universes. And maybe the "madness" is _Wanda_'s madness.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

still confused.. 



kdmorse said:


> Short non-spoilery version:
> 
> In the MCU she grew up with her brother Pietro Maximoff (aka Quicksilver, given flash-like powers from an infinity stone) in Sokovia. He was killed in a fight with Ultron(s).


This is everything. End of story. There is no more that exists. 
It's all I know.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> still confused..
> 
> This is everything. End of story. There is no more that exists.
> It's all I know.


But we're telling you more.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Turtleboy said:


> But we're telling you more.


Do you think he's actually reading our posts?

Why on Earth would he start now?!?


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> But we're telling you more.


But thats exactly the problem!!

you had to tell me all this. I didn't know it before. That's why I am confused.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I like that they are now mixing reality and the show. I’m still not sure where they are going with all this, which adds to the fun. 

Pietro showing up was the spoiler I saw a couple of weeks ago, but not the X-Men version, so that was a surprise. 

On an unrelated note, when I went to watch this episode on my Apple TV from the Up Next list it got an error trying to play that the episode doesn’t exist. When I went to look at the episodes list in the Disney+ app, there were none listed. The only thing listed was the option to play episode 4. I fast forwarded to the end and got the option to play episode 5 and that worked. 

There’s still currently no episodes listed in the Disney+ app though so I can’t pick an episode. Anyone else seeing this issue?

Edit: went into the Disney+ app on my iPad and the episodes were there. After that they showed up on my Apple TV. Weird.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

morac said:


> There's still currently no episodes listed in the Disney+ app though so I can't pick an episode. Anyone else seeing this issue?


It's working fine for me on my Android TV, although I went in through the banner at the top of the screen (which happened to be on WandaVision at the moment). And that took me straight to the page for Ep 5. But from there I had the option of going to the episode list (which I didn't do, since I was just looking for 5).


----------



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

morac said:


> On an unrelated note, when I went to watch this episode on my Apple TV from the Up Next list it got an error trying to play that the episode doesn't exist. When I went to look at the episodes list in the Disney+ app, there were none listed. The only thing listed was the option to play episode 4. I fast forwarded to the end and got the option to play episode 5 and that worked.


I've not had that problem with WandaVision on Disney+, but I've had that problem with The Expanse on Amazon Prime repeatedly. Same problem, same solution (jump to the end of the previous episode).

I suspect some days apps just aren't in the mood to update, and use cached information until they're in the mood to retry.


----------



## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

Does anyone else like the WandaVision sitcom acting better than the actual show? When she came out of WV it seemed like it got a little more hokey and not as crisp. Not only her, but the SWORD boss and even her powers (red hand) just seemed off. Maybe it was just me though.


----------



## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

When the doorbell rang at the end, Vision looked at her and she said "I didn't do it." Plus the look on her face when she opens the door. She didn't "conjure" him up. Agnes wasn't there. Someone else is "watching the show" and controlling some parts of it (my guess is Mephisto but I don't do the comics so I don't know much about him). I think we eventually get to a throwback episode showing how "Wandaview" (I just made that up  ) came into existence.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

The very fact that there IS a sit-com is something that desperately needs to be explained. Because in the context of the show as we've seen it so far, it makes no sense whatsoever.

But I have a fair amount of faith that it will be explained, and it will make sense.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The very fact that there IS a sit-com is something that desperately needs to be explained. Because in the context of the show as we've seen it so far, it makes no sense whatsoever.
> 
> But I have a fair amount of faith that it will be explained, and it will make sense.


I think it's just Wanda creating her reality. But who is broadcasting it?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Turtleboy said:


> I think it's just Wanda creating her reality. But who is broadcasting it?


But why would she create a sit-com reality? Why not just her dream life with Vis in the suburbs?

I suspect the sit-com is coming from someone else...


----------



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Plus when she was growing up Wanda had no exposure to sitcoms that we know of. Of all the characters likely to conjure up a sitcom, she is the most unlikely.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Wasn’t Wanda on house arrest for awhile?

They can easily explain her knowing about sitcoms throughout the decades. 

In many many ways. 

-smak-


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But why would she create a sit-com reality? Why not just her dream life with Vis in the suburbs?
> 
> I suspect the sit-com is coming from someone else...


What if that someone is...


Spoiler: speculation from X-Men Comics



Mojo?



Or could this be a Loki type of thing?

Still, Evan Peters was a bit of a surprise.
(I suppose it's still possible for Aaron Taylor-Johnson to show up.)

The other thing that I haven't seen mentioned is that during Wanda's confrontation with Director Hayward, it seemed to have been implied or hinted at that either he wasn't supposed to have Vision's body or he was doing something to it he wasn't supposed to.
(No, not that!)


----------



## Bill Reeves (Jul 18, 2002)

Oh, I liked the fake commercial in this one - Lagos paper towels - reminding us that sometimes people make a mess that needs cleaning up. It helped reinforce what the director was saying, that maybe Wanda isn't as heroic as she should be.


----------



## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1357816826433069058


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

How did Monica & Jimmy know exactly what happened during the End Game final battle. Enough to know that Wanda almost killed Thanos, until he rained fire, and that Captain Marvel held her own as well.

I know the world knows that there was a blip and unblip, and that Tony Stark was the hero, but this seems to be way too much detail.

I really want a blip show, seeing how the world reacted during those 5 years, and time after.

-smak-


----------



## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

So what does Monica have against Captain Marvel? Was it because she went away instead of staying to protect the earth?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

smak said:


> How did Monica & Jimmy know exactly what happened during the End Game final battle. Enough to know that Wanda almost killed Thanos, until he rained fire, and that Captain Marvel held her own as well.
> 
> I know the world knows that there was a blip and unblip, and that Tony Stark was the hero, but this seems to be way too much detail.


I don't know, it seems to me that anything the Avengers knew, the government would know after debriefing the Avengers.


logic88 said:


> So what does Monica have against Captain Marvel? Was it because she went away instead of staying to protect the earth?


Remember that to Monica, she was basically Aunt Carol. She probably took her absence pretty personally...


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I don't know, it seems to me that anything the Avengers knew, the government would know after debriefing the Avengers.
> 
> Remember that to Monica, she was basically Aunt Carol. She probably took her absence pretty personally...


Or... [insert your own comic book spoilers here]


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

smak said:


> How did Monica & Jimmy know exactly what happened during the End Game final battle. Enough to know that Wanda almost killed Thanos, until he rained fire, and that Captain Marvel held her own as well.


They probably saw the movie.


----------



## Bruce24 (Jan 8, 2003)

Philosofy said:


> Plus when she was growing up Wanda had no exposure to sitcoms that we know of. Of all the characters likely to conjure up a sitcom, she is the most unlikely.


I imagine as a child growing up Eastern Europe she would have seen a bunch of old dubbed American sitcoms on TV...and might have watched them with her brother and parents which made them fond memories.


----------



## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

Grace's breakdown of S01E05... I agree with her comment that she was afraid that episode 5 would be all sitcom, but was relieved that they split the time between inside and outside the "hex"...


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

I was a little amazed that they were able to get that many complete Commodore 64 systems for that one scene, even the disk drive and proper monitor. 

Of course, they went and ruined it by suggesting that they could get on the internet with them (or that the internet was even a thing outside of research/government at that point). They probably should have just said "get online" to make the plot point of the email work within the framework of the 80s.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Wasn’t it the Vision who used the term internet? He isn’t time appropriate.


----------



## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

I forgot, who was the email from?


----------



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Random User 7 said:


> I forgot, who was the email from?


It just said:

S.W.O.R.D.
Top Secret Communique.


----------



## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

Random User 7 said:


> I forgot, who was the email from?


It didn't say. There was no "To:" or "From:" headers that I could see. There was only a "S.W.O.R.D. Top Secret Communique." at the top.


----------



## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

LoadStar said:


> I was a little amazed that they were able to get that many complete Commodore 64 systems for that one scene, even the disk drive and proper monitor.
> 
> Of course, they went and ruined it by suggesting that they could get on the internet with them (or that the internet was even a thing outside of research/government at that point). They probably should have just said "get online" to make the plot point of the email work within the framework of the 80s.


When did the term "internet" come into popular usage? I recall playing Hack and using UUCP mail on a friend's UNIX machine back in the 80's. He got the feed from a school but access to his system was public.


----------



## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

Interesting that the sitcom scenes in Episode 5 were in 16:9 and not the 4:3 that they've been in previous episodes. I wonder if that's supposed to be a sign of Wanda's sitcom reality "breaking down."


----------



## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

The show has grown on me, but I don’t see how there can be more than one season without jumping the shark.


----------



## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

logic88 said:


> When did the term "internet" come into popular usage? I recall playing Hack and using UUCP mail on a friend's UNIX machine back in the 80's. He got the feed from a school but access to his system was public.


Webster's has 1986 as its year of origin: Definition of INTERNET

I'd say it was 5-10 years after that (depending on the age group and technology savvy of the people) that it would have been common enough that you could expect to use it without being greeted by confused expressions.

Of course, since the show takes place in the present and the "80s" reality was only a fake construct, it doesn't need to be perfectly historically accurate.



SullyND said:


> The show has grown on me, but I don't see how there can be more than one season without jumping the shark.


I don't think it was ever planned to be more than one season. I've only seen it promoted as a "Limited Series".


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I don’t remember anyone saying “internet”.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Turtleboy said:


> I don't remember anyone saying "internet".


Vis did, to his coworker.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

So we have a show about a dead android coming back to life to impregnate a mutant/non-mutant witch who is trapping her family and a whole town in a parade of sitcoms but we are concerned over the use of the word “internet” as an accuracy quibble?

Ah, I miss the BBT threads.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Technically using the word “internet” would be correct. Using the “Internet” (capitalized) would be wrong.


----------



## Bruce24 (Jan 8, 2003)

getbak said:


> Webster's has 1986 as its year of origin: Definition of INTERNET


from: internet | Origin and meaning of internet by Online Etymology Dictionary

*internet (n.)*
1984, "the linked computer networks of the U.S. Defense Department," shortened from internetwork, inter-network, which was used from 1972 in reference to (then-hypothetical) networks involving many separate computers. From inter- "between" + network (n.). Associated Press style guide decapitalized it from 2016.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

But bear in mind that in this context, it was being used by a person (well, android, but he's a person to me!) in 2021 America, not an 80s sitcom character. And it wouldn't be surprising to me that this was a deliberate mistake he made; i.e., that the writers intended it as a clue that he was acting "out of character," which is to say not under his wife's control.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I went back and watched the scene again. Yes, Viz said, "let's surf the internet." I think it's just a continuity error without meaning.

But then I noticed something else. When Viz zapped Norm back to _norm_al, Norm said, "She's in my head." And Viz asked who? And Norm said, "Make her stop!" Why didn't they specifically say Wanda there? Maybe it isn't Wanda, maybe it's Agnes? Maybe Wanda really isn't controlling everyone and making dentist appointments, etc. Maybe Agnes is.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Could be.. Wanda said she didn't bring Peter("Pietro") to the front door. I think it's pretty clear it's not all Wanda's doing.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Biting tongue as using comic book material isn’t fair.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

I kind of wish that was just Peter from the x-men universe and now all the X-men universe heroes will crossover just like that , but I doubt it’s that simple. 

And that’s probably a good thing 


-smak-


----------



## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

I've been enjoying the Slate write-ups as well. Easier for me to peruse rather than watching a video.

The Casual Marvel Fan's Guide to WandaVision Episode 5


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> I went back and watched the scene again. Yes, Viz said, "let's surf the internet." I think it's just a continuity error without meaning.
> 
> But then I noticed something else. When Viz zapped Norm back to _norm_al, Norm said, "She's in my head." And Viz asked who? And Norm said, "Make her stop!" Why didn't they specifically say Wanda there? Maybe it isn't Wanda, maybe it's Agnes? Maybe Wanda really isn't controlling everyone and making dentist appointments, etc. Maybe Agnes is.


Viz didn't, but Monica definitely did.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

smak said:


> I kind of wish that was just Peter from the x-men universe and now all the X-men universe heroes will crossover just like that , but I doubt it's that simple.


Given that:
- the next Doctor Strange movie is "Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness,"
- they've said that the events of WandaVision play into the events of that movie, and
- they've also said that the next Deadpool (currently in the X-Men universe) will be in the MCU,
I'm personally of the belief right now that it really _was_ Peter/Quicksilver from the X-Men universe, brought over into the MCU, and that the idea of the "multiverse" is going to be a major factor in the next MCU phase.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Does Vision know he's a synthezoid?

-smak-


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

I have to say, they did get me on that ending. I head read some headlines that there was a "big cameo" and when Wanda was talking about her brother in the episode, I assumed Quicksilver would show up... But it didn't cross my mind that it was the _other _quicksilver... it's always nice to be a little surprised.

So many implications for what it means but at the end of the day, who knows... it's not a "real" appearance yet, and so many things are still unknown so it could be anything. I think these shows were announced either before or close to the merger with Fox, so I'm not sure if timing wise, they always planned on using the show to spring board the true merging of the two timelines... Part of me thinks it could just be a clever nod to the audience, but then I think Marvel is better than that - they wouldn't do it with something so huge.

guess we'll see. The show is definitely better now... first two episodes were very tough to get through. But now that things are unfolding, I'm curious enough to keep watching. I do think it's funny how much citizens and average-joe law enforcement operatives know about the avenger's dealings, down to details about Wanda's fight with Thanos in Endgame.


----------



## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

mrdazzo7 said:


> I do think it's funny how much citizens and average-joe law enforcement operatives know about the avenger's dealings, down to details about Wanda's fight with Thanos in Endgame.


I'm sure it was all over Instagram


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

smak said:


> Does Vision know he's a synthezoid?
> 
> -smak-


He did. Can only assume he still does. That's why he keeps changing his appearance when people are around.


----------



## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

mrdazzo7 said:


> I do think it's funny how much citizens and average-joe law enforcement operatives know about the avenger's dealings, down to details about Wanda's fight with Thanos in Endgame.


How average are Woo and Darcy though? Darcy was BFF with the soon to be Thor, after all.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

mrdazzo7 said:


> guess we'll see. The show is definitely better now... first two episodes were very tough to get through. But now that things are unfolding, I'm curious enough to keep watching. I do think it's funny how much citizens and average-joe law enforcement operatives know about the avenger's dealings, down to details about Wanda's fight with Thanos in Endgame.


Why would the news media operate differently in that world than they do in the real world? Just like we've seen endless stories by US-based news media digging into and reporting on all the details of the storming of the Capitol on January 6, the worldwide news media in the world of The Avengers would surely be doing the same to cover a story that would be orders of magnitude bigger than Jan. 6.


----------



## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

mrdazzo7 said:


> So many implications for what it means but at the end of the day, who knows... it's not a "real" appearance yet, and so many things are still unknown so it could be anything. I think these shows were announced either before or close to the merger with Fox, so I'm not sure if timing wise, they always planned on using the show to spring board the true merging of the two timelines... Part of me thinks it could just be a clever nod to the audience, but then I think Marvel is better than that - they wouldn't do it with something so huge.


In the summer of 2017, Disney announced they would be launching their own streaming service in 2019.

In December 2017, the Fox purchase was announced. The merger spent most of 2018 clearing the regulatory hurdles and was finalized in early 2019. By the fall of 2018, it seemed clear that the deal would be approved even if Disney was required to sell off some of Fox's assets.

In late 2018, it was announced that Disney would be producing original programming for Disney+ featuring smaller supporting characters from the MCU. Among those were a series starring Elizabeth Olsen as Wanda.

In early 2019, a writer was hired and development began on what would become WandaVision. Production began in late 2019.

The original concept for the series may not have been to be a way to bring the X-Men into the MCU, but they almost-certainly would have been working on the plan to introduce the X-Men at the same time the series was being developed.


----------



## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> Why would the news media operate differently in that world than they do in the real world? Just like we've seen endless stories by US-based news media digging into and reporting on all the details of the storming of the Capitol on January 6, the worldwide news media in the world of The Avengers would surely be doing the same to cover a story that would be orders of magnitude bigger than Jan. 6.


Which Avenger was wielding their cell phone to capture the battle video? Or were their camerapeople on the battlefield?


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> He did. Can only assume he still does. That's why he keeps changing his appearance when people are around.


He doesn't remember anything before Eastview. He has a lot of fancy powers but so does Wanda.

-smak-


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> Why would the news media operate differently in that world than they do in the real world? Just like we've seen endless stories by US-based news media digging into and reporting on all the details of the storming of the Capitol on January 6, the worldwide news media in the world of The Avengers would surely be doing the same to cover a story that would be orders of magnitude bigger than Jan. 6.


That was some pretty specific stuff. Jimmy saying captain marvel came close to defeating thanos. That's pretty small specific stuff

Even saying Wanda was going to defeat him until he called a blitz?

This is all 3 weeks after the snap? That they know these fine details?

-smak-


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

smak said:


> That was some pretty specific stuff. Jimmy saying captain marvel came close to defeating thanos. That's pretty small specific stuff
> 
> Even saying Wanda was going to defeat him until he called a blitz?
> 
> ...


Well Tony's tech is always recording, so that's a possibility.


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

So... who was the "Aerospace Engineer" that Rambeau was going to be calling ("I know an aerospace engineer who would be up for this challenge")? It appears like she's either about to call, or in the process of writing a text to the person... then nothing.

It seems like they wouldn't have written that moment in unless it was somehow relevant to the audience, Chekhov's Gun and all.

Edit: TV Line has just published an article pointing out that the above isn't the only odd moment in that scene; the whole thing is weird:
Breaking Down WandaVision's Very Weird Wanda/Thanos/Captain Marvel Debate - Plus 5 Other Thoughts


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Speculation that the aerospace engineer is Reed Richards.


----------



## Bill Reeves (Jul 18, 2002)

smak said:


> That was some pretty specific stuff. Jimmy saying captain marvel came close to defeating thanos. That's pretty small specific stuff
> 
> Even saying Wanda was going to defeat him until he called a blitz?
> 
> ...


Five years (or however long between snaps) and three weeks. I mean, five years since Vision was killed (mentioned by Dr. Lewis, I think, in episode 4) and Wanda went blip. Three weeks since Wanda came back and apparently participated in the final fight. I don't remember the dialog - I thought they were saying that Wanda almost beat Thanos five years earlier. If they were talking about what happened five years earlier, I can see how they would have had time to put the pieces together, so they would know that, for example, Vision got killed in Wakanda five years earlier.

But three weeks after the final fight, plus a large percentage of humanity returning from the blip, things would be pretty frickin chaotic, all over the world - three weeks is pretty unrealistic, we should be seeing lots of refugee camps or temporary housing set up for people coming back from the blip and things like that.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

I think they meant that Wanda could’ve beaten Thanos after she destroyed the stone in Vision’s head but Thanos turned time back to get the stone. She managed to hold him off by herself while destroying the stone but she was so emotionally drained by “killing” Vision that she didn’t attack Thanos.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

No. They were talking about End Game. 

The blitz is Thanos ship firing to stop Wanda from killing Thanos

Captain Marvel wasn’t even in Infinity War. 

-smak-


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I think they meant what we all saw in Endgame. Wanda was beating Thanos (post blip in the end scene), until he rained fire. How did they know? Just got to accept the suspension of disbelief. There’s nothing special there.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

So Pietro comes to the door, they show him, and the audience claps.

Why? If Wanda is controlling the audience, why would she have them clap, she doesn't even really know who he is.

-smak-


----------



## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

trainman said:


> Interesting that the sitcom scenes in Episode 5 were in 16:9 and not the 4:3 that they've been in previous episodes. I wonder if that's supposed to be a sign of Wanda's sitcom reality "breaking down."


I heard someone say this was the first episode to really mix reality and the TV show. That changing aspect ratios every time they switched between the two could be distracting.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

martinp13 said:


> Which Avenger was wielding their cell phone to capture the battle video? Or were their camerapeople on the battlefield?





smak said:


> That was some pretty specific stuff. Jimmy saying captain marvel came close to defeating thanos. That's pretty small specific stuff
> 
> Even saying Wanda was going to defeat him until he called a blitz?
> 
> ...


Maybe I need to rewatch the end of Endgame to see why you guys think it's so secret, but it seems to me that a huge battle between superheroes and the galaxy's biggest villain, that resulted in half the world's population suddenly showing up after having disappeared five years earlier, would be the subject of nearly every single news report on the planet for months. So why is it unbelievable to think that some reporter(s) have pieced together the details of the battle?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Bruce24 said:


> from: internet | Origin and meaning of internet by Online Etymology Dictionary
> 
> *internet (n.)*
> 1984, "the linked computer networks of the U.S. Defense Department," shortened from internetwork, inter-network, which was used from 1972 in reference to (then-hypothetical) networks involving many separate computers. From inter- "between" + network (n.). Associated Press style guide decapitalized it from 2016.


I remember the internet started (for me, public use) in the early 1990s. By 1995 of course, it was already popular enough for it to be included in an OS, Windows 95. There are other "ways" to get to pieces of the Internet, through BBS, an AOL front end (an early selling point for AOL was it's ability to get to the WWW).


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Maybe I need to rewatch the end of Endgame to see why you guys think it's so secret, but it seems to me that a huge battle between superheroes and the galaxy's biggest villain, that resulted in half the world's population suddenly showing up after having disappeared five years earlier, would be the subject of nearly every single news report on the planet for months. So why is it unbelievable to think that some reporter(s) have pieced together the details of the battle?


Yeah, I don't get why folks think it wasn't something widely known, tweeted, tiktok, instagrammed, etc, it certainly would be in our world, I'm in your camp that it would be considered common knowledge


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

dianebrat said:


> Yeah, I don't get why folks think it wasn't something widely known, tweeted, tiktok, instagrammed, etc, it certainly would be in our world, I'm in your camp that it would be considered common knowledge


That's what I said a few pages back too. No way the biggest thing to ever happen wasn't known everywhere.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Random User 7 said:


> That's what I said a few pages back too. No way the biggest thing to ever happen wasn't known everywhere.


They do know, but specific battle information? 3 weeks later? The avengers shouldn't even be giving out to the public who the most powerful avengers are.

In the comics there were 100 biggest battles ever to happen.

Not so sure that the public knew every detail of them 3 weeks later.

-smak-


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## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

smak said:


> They do know, but specific battle information? 3 weeks later? The avengers shouldn't even be giving out to the public who the most powerful avengers are.
> 
> In the comics there were 100 biggest battles ever to happen.
> 
> ...


If the Avengers escapades have been widely promulgated as described, people would already have a pretty good idea who the most powerful Avengers are. Hulk had kids in a dinner asking for his autograph!


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

And these aren't the public. These are law enforcement, some of them specifically tasked with dealing with super-powered beings. One of whom had one as a childhood buddy.


----------



## Bill Reeves (Jul 18, 2002)

Not replying to you specifically, but I'm in the other camp.



dianebrat said:


> Yeah, I don't get why folks think it wasn't something widely known, tweeted, tiktok, instagrammed, etc, it certainly would be in our world, I'm in your camp that it would be considered common knowledge


Tweeted, tiktok'd, etc. by whom? The battle took place at the Avengers compound in upstate New York - there's not a lot civilians nearby. The first thing that happened was a massive explosion when Thanos' ship bombed the crap out of the area. Survivors would have had a hard time getting cell service, news helicopters couldn't get near the place without getting blown out of the sky. In what's essentially a war zone with a lot of stuff going on, it's hard to put the pieces together even a few weeks or months later. And, this is right after a few billion humans suddenly reappeared after five years (including probably thousands who got blipped from airplanes in flight and fell to their deaths upon reappearing and who reappeared on busy highways and such) - people's attention might have been elsewhere. The scene in the hospital at the beginning of WandaVision episode 4 was a small sample of the kind of chaos which would have been happening all over the world - who's going to hear about the Avengers battle while it's happening a few minutes later?

For a real world example, more than three weeks ago now, there was an event which was on every news channel in the country, for hours, and while we know lots of things about it, we don't have a complete picture of who did what, and that's with dozens of people incriminating themselves by live-streaming their actions. It was highly chaotic. People are still being identified and charged, more than a month later.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

smak said:


> So Pietro comes to the door, they show him, and the audience claps.
> 
> Why? If Wanda is controlling the audience, why would she have them clap, she doesn't even really know who he is.
> 
> -smak-


The audience knew their X-Men movies


----------



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Bill Reeves said:


> Not replying to you specifically, but I'm in the other camp.
> 
> Tweeted, tiktok'd, etc. by whom? The battle took place at the Avengers compound in upstate New York - there's not a lot civilians nearby. The first thing that happened was a massive explosion when Thanos' ship bombed the crap out of the area. Survivors would have had a hard time getting cell service, news helicopters couldn't get near the place without getting blown out of the sky. In what's essentially a war zone with a lot of stuff going on, it's hard to put the pieces together even a few weeks or months later. And, this is right after a few billion humans suddenly reappeared after five years (including probably thousands who got blipped from airplanes in flight and fell to their deaths upon reappearing and who reappeared on busy highways and such) - people's attention might have been elsewhere. The scene in the hospital at the beginning of WandaVision episode 4 was a small sample of the kind of chaos which would have been happening all over the world - who's going to hear about the Avengers battle while it's happening a few minutes later?
> 
> For a real world example, more than three weeks ago now, there was an event which was on every news channel in the country, for hours, and while we know lots of things about it, we don't have a complete picture of who did what, and that's with dozens of people incriminating themselves by live-streaming their actions. It was highly chaotic. People are still being identified and charged, more than a month later.


Dude, there was a whole army of Wakandans there. You know, the most technologically advanced nation in the MCU. You don't think some of them recorded what happened, or gave eye witness accounts?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Philosofy said:


> Dude, there was a whole army of Wakandans there. You know, the most technologically advanced nation in the MCU. You don't think some of them recorded what happened, or gave eye witness accounts?


Well, that _is _a nation that is so isolated most people don't even know it exists...


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, that _is _a nation that is so isolated most people don't even know it exists...


Not anymore...


----------



## Bill Reeves (Jul 18, 2002)

Philosofy said:


> Dude, there was a whole army of Wakandans there. You know, the most technologically advanced nation in the MCU. You don't think some of them recorded what happened, or gave eye witness accounts?


OK, that's a good point. They probably had very advanced cameras that are part of their uniforms or on drones that follow their army around and recorded the whole thing.

I still think that three weeks (as stated in WandaVision) is too fast for the world to put everything together and know exactly what happened. The general public would have been preoccupied with the return of a few billion people thought dead for five years, and they may have heard there was a big superhero battle on the Hudson which caused or was caused by the return of the people, but only fanboy nerds would have tried to understand who was hitting whom and how hard in that battle.

But the FBI and SWORD agents would have studied it - they need to know what the members of the superhero community are capable of - so they would have been able to study up and have that kind of conversation that we saw in WandaVision. So I withdraw my objection.


----------



## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Of course, people often state things as fact that are (in fact) their own opinion.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

martinp13 said:


> Of course, people often state things as fact that are (in fact) their own opinion.


Well, that's just YOUR opinion.


----------



## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

martinp13 said:


> Of course, people often state things as fact that are (in fact) their own opinion.


That's just YOUR opinion!

edit: Damn you, Rob!


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

A) Great minds think alike

B) Great mindlessness gets stuck in the same rut


----------



## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Gonna have to go with "B".


----------



## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

MikeekiM said:


> I have watched the entire MCU movie run of 23 films 3x... And I am going in for a 4th viewing with my daughter... I own them all digitally on Vudu, but only in HDX... So this fourth time I am going to use my Disney Plus account and watch them all in 4K UHD!!!
> 
> I use a modified order (not a theatrical release order), which is largely based on the temporal order of the films, which makes Captain America: First Avenger the first film, and Captain Marvel the second film... Weird order, yes...but it works for me... I pulled the order off the AMC Theater's website here:
> 
> ...


wHOA WHOA WHOA...whats this about using your Disney + with VUDU? how does it work?


----------



## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

LOL... No... Sorry, I may have misled you...

What I meant to say is that I own all of the digital copies on Vudu in HDX format...and that I am looking forward to accessing them on Disney Plus to rewatch in 4K UHD... 

Sorry for getting you excited about the possibilities!


----------



## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

smak said:


> Does Vision know he's a synthezoid?
> 
> -smak-


yes he does. Wanda made a comment about it.


----------



## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

Bill Reeves said:


> OK, that's a good point. They probably had very advanced cameras that are part of their uniforms or on drones that follow their army around and recorded the whole thing.


plus at least 4 pieces of tech built by Tony that would have been recording (iron man, war machine, rescue, Spider-Man)


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

MikeekiM said:


> LOL... No... Sorry, I may have misled you...
> 
> What I meant to say is that I own all of the digital copies on Vudu in HDX format...and that I am looking forward to accessing them on Disney Plus to rewatch in 4K UHD...
> 
> Sorry for getting you excited about the possibilities!


Not a problem!


----------



## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

Also, did anyone see the 80s drone tech that SWORD had lying around. I'm guessing their surveillance capabilities have expanded in the last 40 years.


----------



## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Well, it WAS manufactured by Stark Industries (according to the label on it).


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

So Wanda, feeling lonely stole Vision's body and resurrected him, and because she can't bring back real humans to life, she plucked Earth 10005's Pietro Maximoff, and gave him her memories of Pietro. Neither version of Pietro would know Vision died.

I really liked that ending. I think we all probably knew that was going to happen, and the end result in my opinion will be getting the attention of an Avenger or 3 to come help.

This seems to be beyond what's left of SWORD in the outside world.

-smak-


----------



## tigercat74 (Aug 7, 2004)

smak said:


> So Wanda, feeling lonely stole Vision's body and resurrected him, and because she can't bring back real humans to life, she plucked Earth 10005's Pietro Maximoff, and gave him her memories of Pietro. Neither version of Pietro would know Vision died.
> 
> I really liked that ending. I think we all probably knew that was going to happen, and the end result in my opinion will be getting the attention of an Avenger or 3 to come help.
> 
> ...


I wonder if Dr. Strange will make an appearance.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

smak said:


> So Wanda, feeling lonely stole Vision's body and resurrected him, and because she can't bring back real humans to life, she plucked Earth 10005's Pietro Maximoff, and gave him her memories of Pietro. Neither version of Pietro would know Vision died.
> 
> I really liked that ending. I think we all probably knew that was going to happen, and the end result in my opinion will be getting the attention of an Avenger or 3 to come help.
> 
> This seems to be beyond what's left of SWORD in the outside world.


I am increasingly wondering if this is not a story in and of itself, but rather a set-up for the Doctor Strange movie...i.e., the WandaVision situation doesn't get resolved in this series, but rather merely established.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I am increasingly wondering if this is not a story in and of itself, but rather a set-up for the Doctor Strange movie...i.e., the WandaVision situation doesn't get resolved in this series, but rather merely established.


Spider man 3 is next though

-smak-


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

smak said:


> Spider man 3 is next though


But considering Doctor Strange is called Doctor Strange: Multiverse of Madness and co-stars Elizabeth Olsen, I'm betting it's a much more likely candidate for wrapping up WandaVision...


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But considering Doctor Strange is called Doctor Strange: Multiverse of Madness and co-stars Elizabeth Olsen, I'm betting it's a much more likely candidate for wrapping up WandaVision...


Wrapping up yes. But the story will probably continue next into the curiously not yet sub titled spider man 3.

-smak-


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

smak said:


> Wrapping up yes. But the story will probably continue next into the curiously not yet sub titled spider man 3.


Or perhaps Spider-Man 3 will introduce additional aspects of the overall story, and both threads will converge and be resolved in DS...


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Random thoughts:

Malcom in the Middle!

Monica has someone she called to come help out. Who? Possibly Dr. Strange.

What's up with Agnes? That scene with has evidence of her being nefarious and not being nefarious. She's trapped in there like everyone else. She's not in control. She was trying to escape. However, that was quite a maniacal laugh. Maybe she's been driven insane by Wanda, but there is more there.

X-Men's Pietro has MCU's Pietro's wounds too. Is he also dead?

Geographically how far will the Westview hex expand?

Is Dr. Strange and the multiverse of madness is going to concern _Wanda's_ madness?

More to come


----------



## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

I think she was thinking X-Pietro is my brother, dead-Pietro had these wounds, worrying makes her combine the two. X-Pietro doesn't have the same memories as Wanda. When he told a story she said it's not like she remembered it, and later she quizzed him and he said "you're quizzing me" and didn't answer the question.

Interesting that they didn't show us what Darcy was rewritten as... looked like the vehicle turned into maybe a fortune teller's wagon, but she wasn't outside it?

Now that we see that Agnes is trapped too, I'm thinking we don't see a Big Bad other than Wanda in this series, and that it does get resolved in DS:MoM. I expect at least one remaining ep of the three will deal with Wanda's post-blip (I thought we would get it during the serious talk but nope) and how this started, since she keeps saying she doesn't remember. At least one ep showing the "mystery engineer" and all that (although that's perfect fodder for the movies). And they won't wrap this up in one ep.

Ralph still might be Mephisto.


----------



## Bill Reeves (Jul 18, 2002)

Agnes was in the opening credits of the 90s sitcom, but she wasn't in the opening credits of the previous sitcoms, right? If only the shows were on demand and I could just review them all quickly... hang on, brb.

50s: opening credits to start the show, only Wanda and Vision in the opening credits.

60s: Bewitched-style opening credits after a "Previously on...", the Marvel intro, and a brief scene where they were hearing a noise outside. Only Wanda and Vision were named in the credits, but a number of other characters were recognizable - Agnes, Norm, Phil, Geraldine / Monica, another woman (possibly Dottie), and Herb.

70s: Opening credits right after the Marvel intro. Only Wanda and Vision were named in the opening credits, but most of the other characters above also appear in the credits sequence, just not named.

80s: Opening credits were after the scene where Agnes asked if she should do her line again, and the babies aged up to 5 year olds. Credits named Wanda, Vision, and "Introducing Tommy and Billy" as five year olds. None of the other characters from town appeared during the opening credits sequence.

90s: Opening credits were right after the Marvel intro. Characters named in the credits were Wanda, Vision, Agnes, Billy Maximoff, Tommy Maximoff (all three at once), and "Pietro Maximoff as himself". The credits closed with a group of the five family members, no Agnes.

So in this episode, but not previous, Agnes was included in the sitcom's opening credits. To quote Pee Wee Herman, what's the significance? I don't know!


----------



## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

martinp13 said:


> I think she was thinking X-Pietro is my brother, dead-Pietro had these wounds, worrying makes her combine the two. X-Pietro doesn't have the same memories as Wanda. When he told a story she said it's not like she remembered it, and later she quizzed him and he said "you're quizzing me" and didn't answer the question.
> 
> Interesting that they didn't show us what Darcy was rewritten as... looked like the vehicle turned into maybe a fortune teller's wagon, but she wasn't outside it?
> 
> ...


OK, I rewatched, looking for some of this stuff. X-Pietro did say he got shot like a chump on the street. Avenger-Pietro got shot on the street but it wasn't "like a chump". Did X-Pietro get shot? I haven't seen his X-Men movie.

Zero info on Darcy's rewrite... "oh fudge" and a quick cut. Fortune teller wagon was a later car rewrite.

Agnes was like Norm... over the top when back under Wanda's "spell". I didn't see anything weird there. The only odd thing was that it was like she was seeing Vision as Avenger Vision for the first time. Evidently when she's under the spell she doesn't see him as such.

Pietro said to Wanda after Billy's "vision" that "it's not like your dead husband can die twice" and Wanda blasted him. That and other pointed questions ("How did you do all this?") make me wonder who he is? How does he know Vision is dead? How does he know about the construct of Westview? Hmmmm... maybe HE is Mephisto. 

And what is project Cataract? Is that from the comics?

I saw a quick article that said we're getting 10 eps not 9. Haven't gotten to read it yet.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

The 10 episode thing came from what was probably a mistake by one of the actress’s agents.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Great recap 'WandaVision': As Vision Tries to Break Free, Wanda Expands Her Power


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

martinp13 said:


> OK, I rewatched, looking for some of this stuff. X-Pietro did say he got shot like a chump on the street. Avenger-Pietro got shot on the street but it wasn't "like a chump". Did X-Pietro get shot? I haven't seen his X-Men movie.
> 
> Zero info on Darcy's rewrite... "oh fudge" and a quick cut. Fortune teller wagon was a later car rewrite.
> 
> ...


People are taking "cataract" literally. Something that blocks vision. It seems they can follow Vision around. Maybe something that happened when he was in the SWORD lab. They seemed to be experimenting on him.
-smak-


----------



## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

What was up with that Yo, Magic commercial???


----------



## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

smak said:


> People are taking "cataract" literally. Something that blocks vision. It seems they can follow Vision around. Maybe something that happened when he was in the SWORD lab. They seemed to be experimenting on him.
> -smak-


When I googled it, after about 4 relevant articles I got into cataract surgery articles. One talked about "cataracts obstructing your vision" and I said "Oh, duh".


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Turtleboy said:


> What's up with Agnes? That scene with has evidence of her being nefarious and not being nefarious. She's trapped in there like everyone else. She's not in control. She was trying to escape. However, that was quite a maniacal laugh. Maybe she's been driven insane by Wanda, but there is more there.


I think that was just part of her Halloween character...note that everybody's Halloween character is a cartoonish version of who they really are, which pretty much confirms the theory that Agnes is Agatha Harkness.

Interesting that the further away from Wanda people are, the less active they are. Kind of a nod to the TV trope of characters not having lives when they're not interacting with the main cast...in this case, it becomes literal.


----------



## spear (Oct 11, 2006)

Turtleboy said:


> [...]
> Monica has someone she called to come help out. Who? Possibly Dr. Strange.
> [...]


Last episode, she said her friend was an "aerospace engineer", so not Dr. Strange. One of the more interesting guesses I've seen is Reed Richards.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

spear said:


> Last episode, she said her friend was an "aerospace engineer", so not Dr. Strange. One of the more interesting guesses I've seen is Reed Richards.


Yes. 



Turtleboy said:


> Speculation that the aerospace engineer is Reed Richards.


But I'm not sure if they are the same people. I thought she was referring to someone new this episode.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

The Pietro/Peter thing confuses me more than ever

is he MCU Pietro? X-Men Peter? Are they merged into one? 


Does Darcy get superpowers now?


----------



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> The Pietro/Peter thing confuses me more than ever
> 
> is he MCU Pietro? X-Men Peter? Are they merged into one?


And when she lost focus, and he was seen as ashen with bullet holes, was he reverting to the state Wanda plucked him out of (perforated), or was she projecting his fate upon a living plucked Peter? The hell if I know! 

And of course he seems 100% aware of what is going one, freely discussing it all with her, until he took it one joke too far past the fourth wall and got a red bolt to the chest for his troubles.

And while I'm still sure Agnus is involved... She certainly doesn't appear to be the one in charge...


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I thought Wanda didn't pluck him out of wherever was . That someone else brought him to Westview.


----------



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> I thought Wanda didn't pluck him out of wherever was . That someone else brought him to Westview.


Those are the two prevailing theories. Did her grief and longing subconsciously draw him in? Or did someone else bring him in to distract her / further the plot? Is this one of those components of which she is, or is not, in control?

Hell if I know!


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

This Pietro was shot like MCU Pietro, but doesn’t have the same family memories. Wanda was quizzing him and he didn’t know the answers. But he knew what she was doing in Westview. But he was dead. But...

Arg.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

It seems like everything this Pietro knows is public domain information, and the stuff he doesn't know is personal, before Age Of Ultron, that only he and Wanda know.

So it's like somebody filled him readily available information, and hope he gets by.

Makes me think of a Skrull, but why does he look like Evan Peters. Nobody on this Earth knows this Pietro.

So how is it not X-Men's Pietro in some way? 

-smak-


----------



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

I’m reminded of the old Twilight Zone episode with Billy Mummy as the kid with powers that would wish people into the corn field.


----------



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Oh, and did anyone else get the Kickass shout out?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Philosofy said:


> Oh, and did anyone else get the Kickass shout out?


Fitting, since both Pietros were in that movie...


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Philosofy said:


> I'm reminded of the old Twilight Zone episode with Billy Mummy as the kid with powers that would wish people into the corn field.


Based on what just happened and the title of Dr Strange I'm thinking of Fringe.

-smak-


----------



## vman (Feb 9, 2001)

Don’t know Agatha Harkness so tried to google her - can’t make heads or tails of the info.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

spear said:


> Last episode, she said her friend was an "aerospace engineer", so not Dr. Strange. One of the more interesting guesses I've seen is Reed Richards.


In the Fox X-Men films, wasn't Hank McCoy also an aerospace engineer?
(Designed the Blackbird, IIRC.)

Told you Hayward was up to no good.

To push out "the Hex" like that, Wanda must be expending a tremendous amount of power to do that.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

This is interesting...His hair changed from the black/silver of X-Men Pietro to the Blondeish of MCU Pietro.


----------



## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

martinp13 said:


> What was up with that Yo, Magic commercial???


I ran across this article that seems to think all the commercials are related to a stage in Wanda's life.

https://decider.com/2021/02/12/yo-magic-wandavision-commercial-explained/

And I must say that I'm liking the traditional Scarlet Witch costume. It's too bad it's just a cameo.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

logic88 said:


> And I must say that I'm liking the traditional Scarlet Witch costume. It's too bad it's just a cameo.


It looks as stupid in real life as all the other (accurate) comic book costumes they were wearing for Halloween.

And yet somehow Olsen managed to pull it off.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It looks as stupid in real life as all the other (accurate) comic book costumes they were wearing for Halloween.
> 
> And yet somehow Olsen managed to pull it off.


apparently, Elizabeth Olsen insisted on having her character fully embrace the comic book costume

Elizabeth Olsen Had to Fight to Get Comic-Accurate Costume in WandaVision


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> apparently, Elizabeth Olsen insisted on having her character fully embrace the comic book costume
> 
> Elizabeth Olsen Had to Fight to Get Comic-Accurate Costume in WandaVision


That's somewhat ironic, because apparently she almost didn't take the role in the first place because of the comic book costume...she had to be assured that she would not have to wear anything like that before she signed up.


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> apparently, Elizabeth Olsen insisted on having her character fully embrace the comic book costume
> 
> Elizabeth Olsen Had to Fight to Get Comic-Accurate Costume in WandaVision


I'm glad it was just a one-off... that kind of costume doesn't really work with the look and feel of the MCU. Still a very fun one-off though.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

It all seems like a good bit of fan service to me..


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Reminds of the first half of this video, which is from the first X-Men movie.


----------



## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

The look of the fake commercial in Episode 6 was absolutely perfect.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1360713784076165121


----------



## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Turtleboy said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1360713784076165121


Tweet is unavailable.


----------



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Einselen said:


> Tweet is unavailable.


If it was deleted because it was a lie/joke, someone's going to have to die.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

kdmorse said:


> If it was deleted because it was a lie/joke, someone's going to have to die.


And since the tweet is unavailable, I guess we'll just have to shoot the messenger.



(Please don't impeach me!)


----------



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

For anyone that didn't see it, the tweet made the statement that the remaining episodes of Wandavision would be a full hour each.

Hopefully that is true. We'll have to see if a source appears beyond a fleeting tweet.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And since the tweet is unavailable, I guess we'll just have to shoot the messenger.
> 
> 
> 
> (Please don't impeach me!)


You have my vote


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Yeah, it’s probably not true.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Google doesn't seem to know anything about it.

Although it's not out of the question...the producers did say at the beginning that the time allotted for each episode depended on the need for time, not on a pre-set amount. And they seemed to imply that while the early episodes with their sit-com structure would be half an hour, that would not necessarily be true all season. So maybe it was speculation informed by that?


----------



## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

Is WandaVision available anywhere that's isn't streaming? I've always wondered why they stick with certain lengths for episodes. Why not make it as long or as short as needed? Always annoys me when I'm listening to a podcast and they say that the episode was edited because of length concerns. That's probably because they air on radio somewhere else in the world but why not make the full length episode available to podcast listeners?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

logic88 said:


> Why not make it as long or as short as needed?


In this case, that's apparently exactly what they've done...


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

The variable episode length isn't exactly new for non Commercial networks though.

Game of Thrones certainly didn't have set lengths for each episode plus they didn't have to structure four or five commercial breaks and the associated tease before going into each break.
(I assume that shows like The Sopranos were the same.)


----------



## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

kdmorse said:


> ...until he took it one joke too far past the fourth wall and got a red bolt to the chest for his troubles.


Those were red wiggly-woos. 

It makes more and more sense that "Pietro" is the bad guy (or his agent) in disguise. He's trying to gain her trust and be her sounding board. He has superpowers. He knows too much to be a random townsperson: he knows this is created by Wanda, he knows the townspeople are real and under her power (and suffering). But he doesn't know how Wanda did it. He said he died "like a chump"... no, Pietro died saving two others. EWABGWS*! Why should the producers pick a random actor to be the Bad-Guy-in-disguise? Pick the most rabbit-hole-creating actor: the actor who played another version of an important character! It fits the story and gives us fits! I still think it's Mephisto but could be Nightmare or someone else.

*EWABGWS = Exactly what a bad guy would say, taken from our olde Werewolf games here on the forum.


----------



## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

Lots of fun talk on Reddit. One of the things mentioned was going back and watching the earlier episodes and you can see the characters odd behaviors and then correcting so Wanda doesn't get mad or her correcting them. The choking at the dinner table is an example. He was getting nosey and then she made him choke, wife got stuck in a loop.


----------



## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

kdmorse said:


> For anyone that didn't see it, the tweet made the statement that the remaining episodes of Wandavision would be a full hour each.
> 
> Hopefully that is true. We'll have to see if a source appears beyond a fleeting tweet.


That is being said because D+ stayed WV is six hours long and so far it's been around 3. So the theory is the last three are an hour each.


----------



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Random User 7 said:


> That is being said because D+ stayed WV is six hours long and so far it's been around 3. So the theory is the last three are an hour each.


With or without credits in every language?


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

i think the tweet was from some guy named Q.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

mr.unnatural said:


> i think the tweet was from some guy named Q.


I guess it means I'm in a better place today than in the recent past that my first thought was the Star Trek character (which puzzled me)...


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Here is where it came from first




__ https://www.facebook.com/


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

But their “source” is this super long Google link to find something else.


----------



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Could the engineer they are bringing in be Ant Man? Jimmy Woo has history with him, he’s an electrical engineer, and can probably access the multiverse via the quantum realm.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Maybe, but it was Monica who was sending for someone, not Jimmy.


----------



## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

Turtleboy said:


> Here is where it came from first
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What is the significance of the running time for the remaining episodes? (Real question. I realize it can come off as a snarky comment, but I'm just genuinely curious why it's important for some.)


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

mlsnyc said:


> What is the significance of the running time for the remaining episodes? (Real question. I realize it can come off as a snarky comment, but I'm just genuinely curious why it's important for some.)


Nothing, except people enjoy the show so they want more of it.


----------



## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

Turtleboy said:


> Nothing, except people enjoy the show so they want more of it.


Okay. I also go "that's it?" whenever the episode finishes, so I also wouldn't mind having more.

I didn't know if I was missing something because I don't know much beyond the movies (don't read the comics, fan blogs, etc.). And the movies themselves I've only watched once so there'd be subtle things in them I've missed and forgotten, I'm sure.


----------



## mtnagel (Nov 15, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> Here is where it came from first
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The irregular capitalization really bugs me.


----------



## reddice (Mar 6, 2004)

I did not like the first two episodes. It was boring. However, I just binged the rest of the episodes and the series is really catching on especially since it does not take place all in a sitcom. The end of the last episode really surprised me extending past the towns boarders and how the Sword outpost turned into a carnival.


----------



## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> But their "source" is this super long Google link to find something else.


It's interesting: that quote is from Feige, but the Collider interview in the link is with director Matt Shakman. He confirms "about 6 hours total" but when the interviewer presses him that "maybe down the road there's an episode that's an hour and a half?", Shakman dodges the question (and admits that he's doing so  ). We may get 3 one-hour eps or we might get 2 30-min eps and a 2-hour finale. That interview was published Jan 16 after the interviewer had seen three of the episodes.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

If the total is 6 hours, there’s no way the last 3 episodes can be an hour each as, except for the first episode which was 29 minutes, all the other episodes have been between 32 and 41 minutes long.


----------



## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

Turtleboy said:


> Random thoughts:
> 
> Malcom in the Middle!


Thank you! I knew that intro reminded me of something I'd seen, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

morac said:


> If the total is 6 hours, there's no way the last 3 episodes can be an hour each as, except for the first episode which was 29 minutes, all the other episodes have been between 32 and 41 minutes long.


I think that's counting the foreign credits, which adds a few minutes..?


----------



## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

They may not be hour-long episodes, but I bet the last ones will be 45+ minutes, longer than the others.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

We are at 3 hours and 29 minutes. 

Which leaves about 50 minutes for each remaining episode. 


-smak-


----------



## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/ljzhje


----------



## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

smak said:


> We are at 3 hours and 29 minutes.
> 
> Which leaves about 50 minutes for each remaining episode.


That assumes that "about 6 hours" means exactly 6 hours. Even 2 more 40 minute episodes and a 50 minute one would get us in the "about 6 hours" range.


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I guess it means I'm in a better place today than in the recent past that my first thought was the Star Trek character (which puzzled me)...


Yes. Some things are best left in the past.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

mr.unnatural said:


> Yes. Some things are best left in the past.


Yes put it behind you. Or is that...


----------



## reddice (Mar 6, 2004)

It sinks we have to wait a week between episodes. I delayed watching it for weeks after the boring first episode, so I watched the second one on Friday. I meant to watch one Saturday, but I ended up watched 4 episodes, and I was caught up wanting more.


----------



## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

I have never had more fun waiting for new episodes. A 6 hour binge would be worthless. I'll be the first to say... WandaVision is the most popular show on the planet. According to streaming, tweeting and a 3rd optic that is used. Too stupid to give a link but I googled "is WandaVision popular?" and got multiple stories on how popular it is worldwide. That 3rd optic is torrents . Makes sense.


----------



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Much as I hate waiting, I do think it works better this way. Although the part of me that hates waiting wonders if this might have also worked scheduled as a miniseries, airing an episode a day for 9 days. 

My bigger question is, is this going to become required viewing to keep up with the MCU? Not that it's going to impact me, I'm watching it - but others who see all the movies, but don't watch any of the shows, will they the now have a problem?


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I’ve been trying to avoid googling WandaVision as this show has had a very large number of leaks, which is odd for Disney. 

Fortunately the one leak I saw of Pietro turned out to not even be from the “episode”, but the “previously on” segment at the beginning.

Supposedly entire scripts have leaked though.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

I much prefer the weekly drop. I liked it for The Mandalorian, and same for WV. I'm not a binger, and often take months to watch a show, watching just one or two eps a week. This way I can keep up with the discussion, plus I like the idea of something new each week. Otherwise, everyone's already finished while I'm on E2.


ETA: Also, spoilers are harder to avoid if you don't binge. (thanks smak)


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

I like waiting. This discussion is fun. But I’m watching at midnight because I can’t wait any longer and don’t want spoilers. 


-smak-


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

astrohip said:


> I much prefer the weekly drop. I liked it for The Mandalorian, and same for WV. I'm not a binger, and often take months to watch a show, watching just one or two eps a week. This way I can keep up with the discussion, plus I like the idea of something new each week. Otherwise, everyone's already finished while I'm on E2.


If these were binge shows and you didn't binge you'd basically have to be a monk to not see spoilers.

-smak-


----------



## reddice (Mar 6, 2004)

smak said:


> If these were binge shows and you didn't binge you'd basically have to be a monk to not see spoilers.
> 
> -smak-


Stay away looking it up on YouTube and if you watched any related videos just remove them from your watch history, so you don't get suggestion spoilers.

I did not find any spoilers online by accident when I watched four episodes on Saturday or even when I finished The Mandalorian in January, it was all new to me.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

But what's related? Marvel? I'd have to not watch any Marvel videos until I'm done. I would never trust the YouTube algorithm to not spoil me. Too many things can be related to Marvel or Star Wars.

Plus, regular media spoiled the last Mandalorian episode as well.

-smak-


----------



## osu1991 (Mar 6, 2015)

Personally, I think this would work better as a binge show. I’ve told most of my family and friends to just hold off until it’s done. They’re not going to be online looking at news or spoilers. 

I like the show, but it’s been excruciating slow in revealing anything. If I had anything else I cared to watch I would wait, but with the limited shows I’m interested in at the moment, I just go ahead watch each week.


----------



## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

Yeah, I like the non-binge model better. Makes for better discussion and speculation when waiting for the next episode.


----------



## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

I binged the first two or three (because I had to watch Ultron and Civil War), but I prefer being able to discuss it between episodes. Especially a show as convoluted as this one. We're 2/3 done and we still don't know much.  Binging a show like Clone Wars is better because there isn't much to talk about.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

smak said:


> If these were binge shows and you didn't binge you'd basically have to be a monk to not see spoilers.
> 
> -smak-


Good point. I edited my post.


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Finally committed to watch and I couldn’t stop , all caught up mow, looking forward to seeing where this goes.


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I find myself binging more shows these days, mainly because I have a lot of them stockpiled on my server and haven't had a chance to get to all of them. New shows are slowly being introduced back into the TV schedule because of long delays in production so now I have the time to get caught up on a lot of these shows. My short term memory sucks the older I get so having the continuity afforded by binging helps keep me in tune with what's happening. I recently binged the entire first four seasons of The Expanse and the stories flowed so much better than trying to piece together everything that happened during the previous season. I watch so many different shows that only seeing one episode a week tends to get me lost in the overall story. All that being said, I am thoroughly enjoying WandaVision. The first three episodes were quirky and fun with a few small hints that something was a bit off, but things didn't really start to happen until episode 4. Can't wait to see where they take this the rest of the way.


----------



## kar74 (Feb 13, 2005)

Donbadabon said:


> I am so confused with this show.
> I don't have the history needed to enjoy it I think.
> I'll just watch for the fun TV-decade references.


I went into this show having not seen any Marvel movies (so, totally blind). My daughter gave me a brief synopsis of what's going on and I'm finding it even more fun to watch now.


----------



## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

Just watched ep6 for the 8th time. At the end of the episode is a big screen filled with Ultron. Ultron has Wanda's red stuff infused throughout him. I wonder if they are shoving the "big bad" in our face at the end of the episode.


----------



## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

mattyro7878 said:


> Just watched ep6 for the 8th time. At the end of the episode is a big screen filled with Ultron. Ultron has Wanda's red stuff infused throughout him. I wonder if they are shoving the "big bad" in our face at the end of the episode.


If you're talking about the part where you see the costumes, gazebo, house, etc made out of lights/whatever, they get to that by entering Vision's eye. Why do you think that's Ultron?


----------



## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

Not what I'm talking about. At the end of the credits it will say "because you watched Wanda Vision"...and there is a an advertisement for AGE OF ULTRON. In that shot, Ultron is bathed , inside and out in Wanda's red magic. I havent gone back to the actual movie to see if it was that red the whole while or if this is some sort of easter egg.


----------



## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

My only compliant, I wish the show dropped at an earlier time than midnight. Twitter/Reddit/Facebook just want to spoil everything on Fridays.


----------



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

robojerk said:


> My only compliant, I wish the show dropped at an earlier time than midnight. Twitter/Reddit/Facebook just want to spoil everything on Fridays.


People keep saying "Midnight", and I have to remind myself they're on the left coast. Midnight would be great, I can stay up to midnight (it's only 6 minutes away!). 3am however, that's a harder target to hit. I did it for Picard, and I think it left me less willing to put up with some of the slower or stranger moments because I kept wanting to get to the plot moving answers quickly so I could go to bed.

But my solution now is simple. Friday Schedule:

1. Wake up
2. Watch Wandavision
3. Everything Else


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

robojerk said:


> My only compliant, I wish the show dropped at an earlier time than midnight. Twitter/Reddit/Facebook just want to spoil everything on Fridays.


That's smak prime time.

-smak-


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Liked this episode, not quite as good as the rest. Liked the Agatha reveal and theme song, kind of like them telling us we know you knew...

My theory is that the big bad controlling this will be revealed at the end of episode 9, which will lead into Dr Strange, and the consequences of what happened in the series, opening up the multiverse, will lead into Spider Man 3

-smak-


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

robojerk said:


> My only compliant, I wish the show dropped at an earlier time than midnight. Twitter/Reddit/Facebook just want to spoil everything on Fridays.


You just explained a prime reason why I don't use any social media. I never used Twitter or Reddit or Snapchat or anything similar and I dumped my Facebook account because I got tired of every political post that my "friends" have made showing up on my Facebook page. I really don't care about anyone's opinion, especially if I don't share them (although I do value the opinions here). There is just too much crap that people post to make themselves feel self-important. Oh yeah, and I really don't care what you had to eat last night.


----------



## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

BTW, Ep 7 has some extra footage (about 10 seconds) right after the colorful animated credits, after the cast credits.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

dtle said:


> BTW, Ep 7 has some extra footage (about 10 seconds) right after the colorful animated credits, after the cast credits.


Yes, and although it's a small scene there is some significance to it...

A bit strange that Agatha seems to be such a mustache-twirling villain...in the comics, she's one of the good guys.


----------



## tigercat74 (Aug 7, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yes, and although it's a small scene there is some significance to it...
> 
> A bit strange that Agatha seems to be such a mustache-twirling villain...in the comics, she's one of the good guys.


Maybe she is the good guy fighting against evil Wanda.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

tigercat74 said:


> Maybe she is the good guy fighting against evil Wanda.


...while cackling evilly? And celebrating all the evil things she's done?


----------



## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

dtle said:


> BTW, Ep 7 has some extra footage (about 10 seconds) right after the colorful animated credits, after the cast credits.


I always scrub through the credits of this show, just in case. It paid off today.


----------



## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

So, there was all the hype about Monica's aerospace engineer. Was it Reed Richards? Was it someone else? When she got to the space truck, all we met was Major Goodner. I had to Google who this was, wondering if she was actually someone big in the Marvel universe. Found below article. She's a nobody. Evidently the actress that plays the Monica character said the engineer reveal was going to be huge. So, people are saying Goodner was just the delivery woman, for the engineer. That we'll still meet the engineer later.

Marvel's Major Goodner reveal has got WandaVision fans in a bind (thefocus.news)


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

There's supposed to be a character appearance/reveal which is as big as:

(spoiler for the end of last season's Mandalorian)



Spoiler



Lukę Skywalker showing up



So pretty huge. Not some nobody. I think it's going to be Dr. Strange, because he's the only one with the magic power strong enough to fight Wanda and Agatha.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

By the way, I think Elizabeth Olsen has been remarkable in this series...the way her character subtly changes from episode to episode shows a lot of range.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

My post from Episode 5:



Turtleboy said:


> But then I noticed something else. When Viz zapped Norm back to _norm_al, Norm said, "She's in my head." And Viz asked who? And Norm said, "Make her stop!" Why didn't they specifically say Wanda there? Maybe it isn't Wanda, maybe it's Agnes? Maybe Wanda really isn't controlling everyone and making dentist appointments, etc. Maybe Agnes is.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Turtleboy said:


> My post from Episode 5:
> 
> But then I noticed something else. When Viz zapped Norm back to _norm_al, Norm said, "She's in my head." And Viz asked who? And Norm said, "Make her stop!" Why didn't they specifically say Wanda there? Maybe it isn't Wanda, maybe it's Agnes? Maybe Wanda really isn't controlling everyone and making dentist appointments, etc. Maybe Agnes is.


That's interesting in context, because I believe in episode 6, Agatha says it's Wanda doing this, where as Norm didn't say Wanda, just "she"

As for the aerospace engineer, if it's Reed Richard, it'd just be Reed Richards, not Mr Fantastic. I had always thought that they wouldn't do that big a reveal on TV, but if they just have early Reed Richards, they'd probably do it.

Obviously there are scientific geniuses working for SWORD. RR has made a lot of crazy vehicles in his day, so it certainly could be him that made that vehicle in this episode.

-smak-


----------



## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

FRom all my you tube and reddit information , (I have not read the comics) Agatha is good and bad. She helped Wanda raise the kids. Thats all I can say cuz there is soo much backstory. I did watch 3 or 4 "House of M" roundups. Pretty fascinating although ya never know what the MCU is gonna do regarding comic canon.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

mattyro7878 said:


> FRom all my you tube and reddit information , (I have not read the comics) Agatha is good and bad. She helped Wanda raise the kids. Thats all I can say cuz there is soo much backstory. I did watch 3 or 4 "House of M" roundups. Pretty fascinating although ya never know what the MCU is gonna do regarding comic canon.


When Wanda want down Agatha's stairs, I was almost expecting Mephisto to be there taking back the kids.

I give the MCU credit with doing things that happened in the comics, when maybe it's an easier sell to make it more normal. Even putting vision in the MCU was pretty bold, even though they changed his origin.

-smak-


----------



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

dtle said:


> BTW, Ep 7 has some extra footage (about 10 seconds) right after the colorful animated credits, after the cast credits.


I read this about 20 seconds after the episode ended for me. I'm glad I did so I got to stick around and see it.


----------



## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

In the beginning when she's in the kitchen closed captions had her listening to a radio broadcast. I couldn't hear anything though so it must have been really faint.

The sitcom style was like Modern Family but with an Office theme song.
Ashley edit: Elizabeth Olsen is so good, I know I keep saying this but she's been great. Even Paul Bettany had some range in this one when he was talking to the camera. It was fantastic.


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> By the way, I think Elizabeth Olsen has been remarkable in this series...the way her character subtly changes from episode to episode shows a lot of range.


As has Paul Bettany


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

vertigo235 said:


> As has Paul Bettany


Yeah, but I think Olsen is in another league. At least here.

It's amazing how perfectly she fits in with the style of each sit-com.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Random User 7 said:


> Ashley Olsen is so good


Elizabeth. Her sister Ashley may be good too, but I'm not at all familiar with the twins.


----------



## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Elizabeth. Her sister Ashley may be good too, but I'm not at all familiar with the twins.


Whoops!

Found this so I'm guessing that's what the commercial is about.
Nexus Beings

Stan Lee's birthday was in the intro.



Spoiler: Leaked image of the Blue Marvel


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I suspect that this is going to tie directly into the Loki series too. Not as much Falcon and Winter Solider, which was supposed to be broadcast first, but was COVID delayed. Plus, Loki will be more about magic while Falcon seems to be more of an adventure/spy/shoot-em-up.


----------



## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

So who do we think the fly on the curtain is?


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I still don't really understand who Agatha Harnkess is


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> I still don't really understand who Agatha Harnkess is


Well, all you need to know now is what they've told us...that she's a witch, who apparently is evil and either the Big Bad or working for/with the Big Bad.

(There's a lot of comic book history that doesn't seem terribly relevant to her character on the show.)


----------



## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

She had a Connecticut license plate which is where the Hartford Witch Trials were. Her mole refers to the mark of a devil. She bit a kid, another witch sign. Her rabbit could be her kid and I’m thinking the fly is Ralph.


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> (There's a lot of comic book history that doesn't seem terribly relevant to her character on the show.)


This. The MCU frequently rewards those familiar with the comic book origins, but never _requires_ knowledge of the same.

For example, those who are familiar with the comic books will sometimes figure out plot developments or who a character is a little faster than those who aren't... but I think they always eventually show or explain things enough that non-comic book fans get who or what is going on. Or, Marvel might include a little "easter egg" that only those who know the comic books will understand... but the show or movie never depends on people getting the "easter egg," it's just there to amuse the devoted comic book fans.

That's all to say: jsmeeker, have patience, they'll explain things shortly.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> For example, those who are familiar with the comic books will sometimes figure out plot developments or who a character is a little faster than those who aren't...


There's "a little faster" and then there's before the first episode airs. Review sites were calling her Agatha from the get go. As such the "twist" wasn't a twist unless you avoided the Internet for the last 7 weeks.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

morac said:


> There's "a little faster" and then there's before the first episode airs. Review sites were calling her Agatha from the get go. As such the "twist" wasn't a twist unless you avoided the Internet for the last 7 weeks.


If you didn't know who Agatha was, then the internet telling you she was Agatha wouldn't do much

If you did know who Agatha was, then really it was the show telling you 10 different ways every episode it was Agatha.

-smak-


----------



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

On the one hand, I'm not sure the "Fly" is as significant as people are making it out to be. I took it as a stock indication of the presence of 'evil'. On the other hand, the Law of Conservation of Plot is so strong with this show, that *nothing* makes it in that doesn't mean *something*, so it's entirely possible I'm very wrong.

I'll also say that there doesn't necessarily *have* to be an additional Comic style big bad behind all of this. In fact, pulling one of thin air in the last two episodes could come off as being cheaty to the majority of viewers - folks not aware of the Comic book storyline this is loosely based on. I think this could play out very nicely with the director of sword being hinky in some way, but Wanda and Agatha being the key players. But I'm probably wrong about that as well.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

I’m guessing If there’s a big bad, he will show himself like Thanos “I’ll do it myself” appearance. To close the season. 


-smak-


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

The name was a nice touch, *AG*atha Hark*NESS*.


----------



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> The name was a nice touch, *AG*atha Hark*NESS*.


Yah, and if you knew the name, then you recognized the Broach (or pin, or whatever it was in each decade) as a dead giveaway from the very first episode.


----------



## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

So Monica is now "Photon"? I guess I should go look up what her powers might be.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

smak said:


> I'm guessing If there's a big bad, he will show himself like Thanos "I'll do it myself" appearance. To close the season.


Yeah, that's what I've been suspecting for a while now...that this show doesn't resolve the the Big Bad, but rather establishes them for the future (Doctor Strange?).


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I expect that the next episode will be the flashback explaining everything. Then the finale will be the battle


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> I expect that the next episode will be the flashback explaining everything. Then the finale will be the battle


That finale might end up being nearly 2 hours long considering this week's episode was 37 minutes including the credits. If next week is a similar length they'll be far short of the 6 hours promised.


----------



## nataylor (Apr 26, 2000)

Random User 7 said:


> So who do we think the fly on the curtain is?


It was a cicada, not a fly.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

yeah..

so, who is the cicada? What about the bunny?


----------



## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

You can get so much info and theory online and on you tube. IT is shocking the amount of minutaue


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Yeah.. I need to watch some of the recap videos.. Just haven't gotten around to it for this episode. In the past, I've spent more time watching those than the actual episodes! It's crazy.. Also need to google up our Agatha.


----------



## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

jsmeeker said:


> yeah..
> 
> so, who is the cicada? What about the bunny?





Spoiler: My answer



Leading theory is the cicada is Mephisto as he is a fly in the comic. The bunny has the same name as Agatha's son in the comic.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Some really interesting speculation for both WandaVision and upcoming shows and movies, based on a deep-in-the-weeds examination of some comics...

The Grand Vision Behind the Latest 'WandaVision' Reveal


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

MikeekiM said:


> I have watched the entire MCU movie run of 23 films 3x... And I am going in for a 4th viewing with my daughter... I own them all digitally on Vudu, but only in HDX... So this fourth time I am going to use my Disney Plus account and watch them all in 4K UHD!!!
> 
> I use a modified order (not a theatrical release order), which is largely based on the temporal order of the films, which makes Captain America: First Avenger the first film, and Captain Marvel the second film... Weird order, yes...but it works for me... I pulled the order off the AMC Theater's website here:
> 
> ...


I have decided to watch all the MCU movies. I am thinking of doing chrono order, not release date. That might make it easier for my simple mind to process the story . I just watched Iron Man a couple weeks ago, so I went back and watched CA:TFA, and Captain Marvel is next.

@MikeekiM you say your list is a "modified" order. Is it not chrono? If not, how did you decide the order?

My goal is to watch one a week. I have Disney+. What else do I need?


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I would watch in release order for the first time. Remember that every movie has either mid-credit or after-credit scenes or both.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I thought everyone knew this, but apparently not.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1363295502419308545


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

astrohip said:


> I have decided to watch all the MCU movies. I am thinking of doing chrono order, not release date. That might make it easier for my simple mind to process the story . I just watched Iron Man a couple weeks ago, so I went back and watched CA:TFA, and Captain Marvel is next.
> 
> @MikeekiM you say your list is a "modified" order. Is it not chrono? If not, how did you decide the order?
> 
> My goal is to watch one a week. I have Disney+. What else do I need?


Watch release order as much as possible. But you can easily skip over "The Incredible Hulk". It's not on Disney + as already discussed. Also you won't see the MCU Spiderman movies (Spiderman:Homecoming and Spiderman:Far From Home). Those are worth seeking out elsewhere, but not really needed to know much about Wanda and Vision and events leading up to the Wandavision show.


----------



## mtnagel (Nov 15, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> I thought everyone knew this, but apparently not.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1363295502419308545


I had no idea who Elizabeth Olsen was until recently. The only other things I watched that she was in were the Avengers movies, but never looked her up until I started watch WandaVision. That's when I learned of the connection. Oddly enough, I had Kodachrome, which Elizabeth is in, in my Netflix watch list for a long time and finally watched it last night. Solid movie.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Elizabeth is the Ashley Judd of Olsens.


----------



## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

Did I just hear All Pacino's voice saying "there was no other way" in the episode 8 promo?!


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

mattyro7878 said:


> Did I just hear All Pacino's voice saying "there was no other way" in the episode 8 promo?!


It's a fan made fake. It's Doctor Strange from Avengers: Infinity War.

No ep 8 promo as of this posting.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> No ep 8 promo as of this posting.


And if there was, discussing it here would be off limits.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

It would? Thread is titled with “spoilers.”


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> It would? Thread is titled with "spoilers."


Promos are off-limits. I've always thought it's a silly rule, but it IS a rule.


----------



## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

Whatever. I did just see Visions co worker Norm in a Taco Bell commercial. And is me guessing the name of a voice I heard for 3 seconds a spoiler? What if I said "I think Thanos is gonna return in episode 9". Is that a spoiler??


----------



## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

mattyro7878 said:


> Whatever. I did just see Visions co worker Norm in a Taco Bell commercial. And is me guessing the name of a voice I heard for 3 seconds a spoiler? What if I said "I think Thanos is gonna return in episode 9". Is that a spoiler??


That's funny, I was going to ask which character Josh Brolin was going to arrive as Thanos or Cable (since the X-Men are being integrated in to the MCU).


----------



## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Promos are off-limits. I've always thought it's a silly rule, but it IS a rule.


It is spoilers allowed for episodes aired up to the date of posting correct? So promos and other spoilers for future episodes are not allowed so that people can play along episode by episode in a season long thread.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

is an end/mid credit scene a preview?


----------



## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Elizabeth is the Ashley Judd of Olsens.


Please tell us that she didn't just need to be carried for days out of the jungle because she severely damaged her leg in a fall.


----------



## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

jsmeeker said:


> is an end/mid credit scene a preview?


Or is it a promo?


----------



## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

I think we need a rules recap.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Random User 7 said:


> I think we need a rules recap.


With spoiler tags, of course!


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

mtnagel said:


> I had no idea who Elizabeth Olsen was until recently. The only other things I watched that she was in were the Avengers movies, but never looked her up until I started watch WandaVision. That's when I learned of the connection. Oddly enough, I had Kodachrome, which Elizabeth is in, in my Netflix watch list for a long time and finally watched it last night. Solid movie.


She was great in _Wind River. _The film was an official selection for Sundance and Cannes in 2017, and co-starred Jeremy Renner (Clint Barton / Hawkeye). Included with Prime, and also available on YouTube, Play, AppleTV, and Vudu.


----------



## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

I hope Jeremy Remer plays his kick ass rock and roll in the movie. (vomit emoji)


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Catchy tune. Kathryn Hahn on the vocals.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1363911433025556480


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Turtleboy said:


> Catchy tune. Kathryn Hahn on the vocals.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1363911433025556480


I get sort of a Munsters vibe from that one. Anyone see other influences?


----------



## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> I get sort of a Munsters vibe from that one. Anyone see other influences?


The Office theme ran through the episode.


----------



## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

I had never heard of The Eternals. Would this have anything to do with WV? Everyone mentions Spider-Man and DR Strange but this one is new to me.


----------



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Who was the off camera voice who said “Do you think maybe this is what you deserved?” Who is the actor, and what is the significance of the off-camera voice?


----------



## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

Philosofy said:


> Who was the off camera voice who said "Do you think maybe this is what you deserved?" Who is the actor, and what is the significance of the off-camera voice?


It was Agatha with a voice shift.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Random User 7 said:


> I had never heard of The Eternals. Would this have anything to do with WV? Everyone mentions Spider-Man and DR Strange but this one is new to me.
> 
> View attachment 57757


Probably not. It takes place 1000's of years ago. But supposedly it leads to modern day.

-smak-


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

errr

what? How do Eternals connect to Wanda and Vision?


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> errr
> 
> what? How do Eternals connect to Wanda and Vision?


They probably don't.

-smak-


----------



## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

smak said:


> Probably not. It takes place 1000's of years ago. But supposedly it leads to modern day.
> 
> -smak-


Thanks, that's helps. I didn't want to search and find some information that could spoil the movie. I'd rather go in not knowing much about it.



jsmeeker said:


> errr
> 
> what? How do Eternals connect to Wanda and Vision?


I was asking because I've never heard of it.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

smak said:


> They probably don't.
> 
> -smak-


well.. it seems they do?


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> well.. it seems they do?


I don't see anything.

-smak-


----------



## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> Catchy tune. Kathryn Hahn on the vocals.


I noticed in the closing credits that the title of this song was listed as "It Was _______ All Along." I guess they didn't want anyone at the Library of Congress to find out that spoiler when they registered the copyright.


----------



## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

Random User 7 said:


> I had never heard of The Eternals. Would this have anything to do with WV? Everyone mentions Spider-Man and DR Strange but this one is new to me.
> 
> View attachment 57757


The Eternals has been in the news a lot lately due to Zhao/Nomadland being the frontrunner in the Oscar race. Kumail Nanjiani also made a splash awhile ago due to him getting jacked (his shirtless picture was posted everywhere!) for his role in that movie.


----------



## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

So what was "Pietro" wearing in the mid-credits scene? Hair down, slouchy cap, jacket with the same Quicksilver pattern on it?


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

martinp13 said:


> View attachment 57777
> So what was "Pietro" wearing in the mid-credits scene? Hair down, slouchy cap, jacket with the same Quicksilver pattern on it?


I think so. or maybe not.. It's the same actor. But maybe in that scene is is playing his REAL character in this series.. And that character is pretending to be Pietro/Peter.

Maybe

I dunno.


----------



## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> I think so. or maybe not.. It's the same actor. But maybe in that scene is is playing his REAL character in this series.. And that character is pretending to be Pietro/Peter.
> 
> Maybe
> 
> I dunno.


He looks like one of the seven dwarves.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

People are taking this episode as showing that it's not X-Men's Pietro, but I don't understand why Agatha would bring a person, or somebody is masquerading as a person that looks like Pietro from a different universe.

If somebody is masquerading as her brother, why doesn't he look like MCU Pietro.

It makes no sense, and I don't think it's stunt casting to throw the audience off.

-smak-


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

smak said:


> People are taking this episode as showing that it's not X-Men's Pietro, but I don't understand why Agatha would bring a person, or somebody is masquerading as a person that looks like Pietro from a different universe.
> 
> *If somebody is masquerading as her brother, why doesn't he look like MCU Pietro.*
> 
> ...


because he's dead ?


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> because he's dead ?


You should be able to masquerade as anybody, living or dead. It's just actually resurrecting the dead that can't be done.

-smak-


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

SCARLET WITCH!!

1. Wanda DID create the town. Just her
2. Wanda DIDN'T steal Vision's body. Heyward either lied about that, or certainly made it seem like it. I don't 100% remember what he said.
3. Wanda is a witch, and always has been. Not sure exactly how that deals with the Mind Stone and Baron von Strucker?
4. Agatha is old and very powerful, and for some reason wants Wanda to know she's a witch. She could still end up not being a bad guy.
5. The Boys were created by Wanda as was her Vision
6. WHITE VISION!!

You have dozens of Superheroes and villains in the MCU and crazy space fights, and hand to hand combat, but that scene in the bedroom with 2 very good actors is what the MCU is all about.

-smak-


----------



## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

Good episode even though the walking back through the hall of memories bit has been overdone. Can't wait for the series finale next week.

Also, the idea of Wanda driving around in a Buick just strikes me as odd. I suppose flying around everywhere might draw too much attention. And Vision only has $3B worth of Vibranium in him?


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

And Wanda can create vibranium out of nothing. And probably created her kids too.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

smak said:


> 4. Agatha is old and very powerful, and for some reason wants Wanda to know she's a witch. She could still end up not being a bad guy.


Um...how? Her origin story is she'll kill anybody, including her own mother, to gain power. And nothing seems to have changed...


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Um...how? Her origin story is she'll kill anybody, including her own mother, to gain power. And nothing seems to have changed...


She was in the middle of being burned at the stake by her mother. That's a reason to kill her.

She's done no real harm yet.

-smak-


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

smak said:


> She was in the middle of being burned at the stake by her mother. That's a reason to kill her.
> 
> She's done no real harm yet.
> 
> -smak-


Her entire life has been one giant power-grab. I don't think she was being burned at the stake; I think she was being de-powered...because she was willing to do evil to gain more power. And now, she's using Wanda to gain more power.

The MCU Agatha seems to be pure evil. In the past two episodes, I have not seen one thing that hints otherwise. And if they're setting her up to be a good guy, they would have been dropping hints.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

What's Agatha's goal? First it seems like she just wanted to learn how Wanda did things. But Wanda doesn't use spells and incantations. She just has the magic built into her. In the MCU, apparently the Scarlet Witch is something that may be separate.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Turtleboy said:


> What's Agatha's goal? First it seems like she just wanted to learn how Wanda did things. But Wanda doesn't use spells and incantations. She just has the magic built into her. In the MCU, apparently the Scarlet Witch is something that may be separate.


I think she just wants Wanda's power. And she's trying to figure out how Wanda got it...the first step in acquiring it for herself.

Bear in mind, Agatha didn't know that Wanda was Infinity-Stone enhanced, and thus that there's probably no way for Agatha to duplicate it. She thought Wanda was just another witch. Now that she realizes otherwise, I bet she'll be...bummed? Pissed?


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

morac said:


> Am I the only one who thinks Vision isn't real or that none of it is and it's all in Wanda's head? Either way I don't think that's Vision. He still has the Mind stone.


Looks like I was right. It isn't the real Vision.

That also explains why he can't leave the hex. Her children likely can't either.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

So it was Wanda controlling everyone all along and not Agatha.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Turtleboy said:


> So it was Wanda controlling everyone all along and not Agatha.


Mostly. Fietro was Agatha's. She was tweaking things to try to figure out how Wanda was doing it.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> So it was Wanda controlling everyone all along and not Agatha.


Yep. The "Agatha All Along" song was a lie.

Basically Wanda"s created the town and mind controlled all the residents and Agatha sensed that from wherever she was and was like WTF was that. She then came to the town and posed as Agnes to figure out how Wanda did it, but Wanda was in a grief induced psychotic state, living in a sitcom world where no one can get hurt as "it's not that kind of show". Agnes then spend her time trying to push Wanda back to reality through various means: killing Sparky, controlling Fietro, etc.

I suspect next week's episode will be at least 60 minutes, possibly even 90 minutes (though I think that's pushing it). There's a lot to get through what with the stand-off between Agatha and Wanda, Hayward's assault on the town and whatever Monica and Vision are up to.

Looking online there's a lot of people who feel disappointed as none of the fan theories seem to be true. Basically what it looked like was happening, was what was happening. The two exceptions are Agatha (which again people were predicting a year ago) and the fake vision (which is what seemed to be happening until we saw that doctored video from Hayward).


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

The contents have been commented upon upthread, but for anyone who forgot to check, there is of course a mid-credits scene again. Which reminds me, no Monica sighting this week? Agatha/Pietro threw her down a well perhaps?


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I guess it's the way Disney+ is going to do the upcoming MCU shows but I'm not a fan of weekly half hour long episodes. As soon as you get completely drawn into the episode, it's over. And seeing the episode length at 30+ minutes but eight minutes of it is credits sucks and D+ always thinks I'm still watching the previous episode because I bail on the credits.

Next week is the season finale? I hope they tie a lot of things up.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

You can always wait till the end and binge watch.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> I guess it's the way Disney+ is going to do the upcoming MCU shows but I'm not a fan of weekly half hour long episodes. As soon as you get completely drawn into the episode, it's over. And seeing the episode length at 30+ minutes but eight minutes of it is credits sucks and D+ always thinks I'm still watching the previous episode because I bail on the credits.
> 
> Next week is the season finale? I hope they tie a lot of things up.


It looks like the next show (Falcon & Winter Soldier) may be closer to an hour, but then we only get 6 episodes.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> Next week is the season finale? I hope they tie a lot of things up.


I added up the time of the existing episodes and the next episode should be 105 minutes (including credits) based on the reported 6 hour run time. If Disney doesn't count the credits in the 6 hours, it will be even longer.

That should give them plenty of time to tie things up. That's assuming everything is being tied up. They might leave some things for season 2 or the movies.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

morac said:


> I added up the time of the existing episodes and the next episode should be 105 minutes (including credits) based on the reported 6 hour run time. If Disney doesn't count the credits in the 6 hours, it will be even longer.


I think that the six hours comment, in context, shouldn't be taken as an absolute rule, but rather a general philosophy. He was saying that the shows wouldn't be a certain number of episodes, but rather a certain length...i.e., six hours (presumably more or less). So a show with longer episodes would have fewer episodes, and a show with shorter episodes would have more. I wouldn't take that as saying that WV would be exactly six hours long, but rather as explaining why WV has nine episodes (because they're shorter).


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

morac said:


> Looks like I was right. It isn't the real Vision.
> 
> That also explains why he can't leave the hex. Her children likely can't either.


She constantly warned the kids to not go past Willis Ave. So yah, if they go where Vision went they'd have the same almost fate.

-smak-


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

cheesesteak said:


> I guess it's the way Disney+ is going to do the upcoming MCU shows but I'm not a fan of weekly half hour long episodes. As soon as you get completely drawn into the episode, it's over. And seeing the episode length at 30+ minutes but eight minutes of it is credits sucks and D+ always thinks I'm still watching the previous episode because I bail on the credits.
> 
> Next week is the season finale? I hope they tie a lot of things up.


I agree. Disney+ hasnt learned to put a "restart episode" option even after their 8 minute credit listings? This is the streaming service that will challenge Netflix?


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

smak said:


> She constantly warned the kids to not go past Willis Ave. So yah, if they go where Vision went they'd have the same almost fate.
> 
> -smak-


ELLIS AVE , no biggie!


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I think that the six hours comment, in context, shouldn't be taken as an absolute rule, but rather a general philosophy. He was saying that the shows wouldn't be a certain number of episodes, but rather a certain length...i.e., six hours (presumably more or less). So a show with longer episodes would have fewer episodes, and a show with shorter episodes would have more. I wouldn't take that as saying that WV would be exactly six hours long, but rather as explaining why WV has nine episodes (because they're shorter).


Well currently WV is significantly undershooting the stated 6 hours. There's only been 4.25 hours (including the 6+ minutes of credits per episode) so far. As such I still expect the final episode to be significantly longer than the others. Especially since it would be nearly impossible to wrap up the season in 40 minutes.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

logic88 said:


> Good episode even though the walking back through the hall of memories bit has been overdone. Can't wait for the series finale next week.


I'm really enjoying the "Hall of Memories" bits. As someone who doesn't know much about the MCU (3 movies down, 734 to go), it's really helpful and interesting to see all this back story.

I have no idea if this stuff in the flashbacks is info you MCUers have already seen, or know, or if it's new to you also.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

astrohip said:


> I have no idea if this stuff in the flashbacks is info you MCUers have already seen, or know, or if it's new to you also.


The first two flashbacks were described in Age of Ultron, but never actually seen up till now. The last flashback was new for everyone.

On a related note, the "previously on WV" part had a few scenes from End Game in it.


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

Now this looks cool

enhancement from the scene when she touches the stone


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365321334130167811


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

It's a strange thing to pick on, but the whole scene with the children, they just didn't look like they were in any real danger. I mean, at that angle, all they would have to do is lean back and the purple rope would have just slid off.

Maybe it's a plot point, maybe the kids aren't really there (in addition to the question as to whether the kids are real and there), but it really looked more like a case of "We'll film it from this angle - whoops, that didn't work".


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I think she just wants Wanda's power. And she's trying to figure out how Wanda got it...the first step in acquiring it for herself.
> 
> Bear in mind, Agatha didn't know that Wanda was Infinity-Stone enhanced, and thus that there's probably no way for Agatha to duplicate it. She thought Wanda was just another witch. Now that she realizes otherwise, I bet she'll be...bummed? Pissed?


I read something on Reddit that I agree with so far.



> So Agatha has like a PhD in magic and is very technical about the whole thing. She uses all the proper jargon for the spells and curses (probability hex, necromancy, crystal possession, chaos magic). So when she comes across Wanda's Hex, it was like a scientist discovering a new type of technology. She badly wants to study it but the only one who could teach her was clueless about the whole thing. Neat.
> 
> I really dig this motivation. So, essentially, she is like a demented Hermione Granger.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

When exactly did Vision purchase the land? He died before the Snap. And he was on the run for a few years before that.


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

Turtleboy said:


> When exactly did Vision purchase the land? He died before the Snap. And he was on the run for a few years before that.


Yes, I think that card/letter was placed there by someone to trigger her.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

so, Wanda's red magic goo can linger on objects and then can be used to power up a re-built Vision?

thats intersting

I don't think we have seen the lingering magic in the MCU.. Is that a comic book thing?


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Random User 7 said:


> Yes, I think that card/letter was placed there by someone to trigger her.


As TB pointed out to me. It wasn't placed there. It was already there.

-smak-


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

smak said:


> As TB pointed out to me. It wasn't placed there. It was already there.
> 
> -smak-


Ooh really I missed that. I'll have to watch that scene again. I saw it on the car seat when she got to her car but how do we know who put it there?

Also, so Wanda's witch powers made the bomb not explode. I didn't catch that either until thinking about it later.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Random User 7 said:


> Ooh really I missed that. I'll have to watch that scene again. I saw it on the car seat when she got to her car but how do we know who put it there?
> 
> Also, so Wanda's witch powers made the bomb not explode. I didn't catch that either until thinking about it later.


Wanda put it there

She went to SWORD to get his body so she could take it to westview and bury him.


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

jsmeeker said:


> Wanda put it there
> 
> She went to SWORD to get his body so she could take it to westview and bury him.


Gotcha, that makes sense. It was her reaction to seeing it is what threw me. I see know that was just disappointment in what occurred.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Random User 7 said:


> Ooh really I missed that. I'll have to watch that scene again. I saw it on the car seat when she got to her car but how do we know who put it there?
> 
> Also, so Wanda's witch powers made the bomb not explode. I didn't catch that either until thinking about it later.


She doesn't open the letter until Westview, when she compares the cards house plans to the nothing that is there. 

-smak-


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I didn't see if anyone mentioned the extended scene at the end of the credits. I don't usually hang around for the end credits in WV, but for some reason I decided to stick it out this time and I'm glad I did. Nice little tidbit at the end in case you missed it. I was wondering if they were ever going to do it like they did for all of the MCU movies.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

mr.unnatural said:


> I didn't see if anyone mentioned the extended scene at the end of the credits. I don't usually hang around for the end credits in WV, but for some reason I decided to stick it out this time and I'm glad I did. Nice little tidbit at the end in case you missed it. I was wondering if they were ever going to do it like they did for all of the MCU movies.


Did I miss one? I saw the mid credit scene where we see White Vision. There was more?


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

They have had post credit scenes for two weeks now


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

There have been no "post credit" scenes, just the mid-credit scenes.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> When exactly did Vision purchase the land? He died before the Snap. And he was on the run for a few years before that.


No, Vision wasn't on the run as he was on Tony's side.
Wanda ran with Cap and she and Vision would meet up from time to time.
(I'm assuming on neutral ground.)

So he would have had plenty of opportunity to buy the land.
(Maybe Friday kept up the property tax payments.)

That's not much else to say here except they've basically said that Wanda was born with power and the Mind Stone supercharged it.
(Wonder if the same was true for Pietro. In the comics, they are mutants.)

But I have to say that Kathryn Hahn is great in the show.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Are witches really born witches? 

Or do they become witches after studying witchcraft?


-smak-


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

All of a sudden this is way old news now, but this article was fun:

Meet the Songwriters Behind the 'Wandavision' Hit 'Agatha All Along'


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

smak said:


> Are witches really born witches?
> 
> Or do they become witches after studying witchcraft?


Wanda didn't study, but she could do magic even before the Stone supercharged her (e.g., stopping the bomb from going off)...


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

So if she was always this extremely powerful witch, what did the mindstone do? And if it really actually didn't do anything, how did Pietro get powers? It's been long a curiosity with MCU fans how the mindstone would give somebody superspeed.

It seems to me they've retconned the mindstone into being the thing that didn't give her her powers, but showed her her powers, including herself as full on Scarlett Witch in the future.

-smak-


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

smak said:


> She doesn't open the letter until Westview, when she compares the cards house plans to the nothing that is there.
> 
> -smak-


It was open on the seat when she looks at it. She knew to go that address so she must have opened it prior. Makes sense now to me instead of thinking someone else put it there.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

smak said:


> So if she was always this extremely powerful witch, what did the mindstone do? And if it really actually didn't do anything, how did Pietro get powers? It's been long a curiosity with MCU fans how the mindstone would give somebody superspeed.
> 
> It seems to me they've retconned the mindstone into being the thing that didn't give her her powers, but showed her her powers, including herself as full on Scarlett Witch in the future.
> 
> -smak-


mutation?


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

JYoung said:


> No, Vision wasn't on the run as he was on Tony's side.
> .


Ah. That's right. Thanks.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

LoadStar said:


> There have been no "post credit" scenes, just the mid-credit scenes.


I stand corrected. They were in between the initial credits with the animated graphics and the standard text credits at the end


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Wanda and Pietro weren’t allowed to be mutants due to the licensing deal with Fox. But now that no longer matters, they can retcon her story.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

That seems unnecessary to me, but I'm not a comic guy. 
I guess ig get why they need to do it for sake historic accuracy


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

Wanda has the longest origin story of anyone and it’s still not over.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

morac said:


> Yep. The "Agatha All Along" song was a lie.


I don't think the song lied at all, it doesn't claim that she created the illusion, it claims she was "messing with it", she was pulling the "evil strings" not "all the strings"

Who's been messing up everything?
_It's been Agatha all along_
Who's been pulling every evil string?
_It's been Agatha all along_
She's insidious _(Ha, ha!)_
So perfidious
That you haven't even noticed
And the pity is (The pity is)
Pity, pity, pity, pity
It's too late to fix anything
Now that everything has gone wrong
Thanks to Agatha _(Ha!)_
Naughty Agatha
_It's been Agatha all along_

[Outro (spoken): Kathryn Hahn]
And I killed Sparky too!
*evil laughter*


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

smak said:


> So if she was always this extremely powerful witch, what did the mindstone do? And if it really actually didn't do anything, how did Pietro get powers? It's been long a curiosity with MCU fans how the mindstone would give somebody superspeed.
> 
> It seems to me they've retconned the mindstone into being the thing that didn't give her her powers, but showed her her powers, including herself as full on Scarlett Witch in the future.
> 
> -smak-


She always had some powers (when she was a child, she stopped the bomb from going off). Hydra experimented on her with an Infinity Stone, and that seemed to amplify her powers greatly.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> All of a sudden this is way old news now, but this article was fun:
> 
> Meet the Songwriters Behind the 'Wandavision' Hit 'Agatha All Along'


I didn't realize Disney has been releasing episode soundtracks to various streaming services. That's pretty cool.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

morac said:


> I didn't realize Disney has been releasing episode soundtracks to various streaming services. That's pretty cool.


Yup, they're even in CD quality on Tidal and Qobuz too. Not that I need yet another earworm. As that article mentions, for many of us the Agatha song was hard to get out of our heads! But as one of the songwriters recommended, picking another earworm-worthy tune at least replaces the one that's in your head now.

Proud to say I recognized the Munsters vibe in Agatha's theme, though I mostly got that from the titles font. Then I heard the horn and such. I did not notice the Addam's Family harpsichord though. Interesting.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Can someone explain the significance of white vision? That came along after I stopped reading comics.

and I refuse to believe that Fietro just happens to look like Pietro from the XMen movies.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

smak said:


> She doesn't open the letter until Westview, when she compares the cards house plans to the nothing that is there.
> 
> -smak-


If she didn't open it until she got to Westview, how did she know where to go?

And when she got out of the car in Westview, she left it on the seat, then she walks to the house and it's in her hand. Magic!


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> She always had some powers (when she was a child, she stopped the bomb from going off).


Everyone keeps saying that, but I've watched Ep8 twice now and I don't see any evidence of that. No red wisps, nothing. She stuck her hand out to do something, but she/adult Wanda got yanked back under the bed so we didn't see what happened. Normally a missile like that goes kablooey when it hits, and since this one didn't, it was probably a dud. I don't see that she had anything to do with that. What am I missing?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

martinp13 said:


> Everyone keeps saying that, but I've watched Ep8 twice now and I don't see any evidence of that. No red wisps, nothing. She stuck her hand out to do something, but she/adult Wanda got yanked back under the bed so we didn't see what happened. Normally a missile like that goes kablooey when it hits, and since this one didn't, it was probably a dud. I don't see that she had anything to do with that. What am I missing?


A) It keep beeping and blinking, which one would assume a dud wouldn't. B) Agatha expositioned it for us.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

martinp13 said:


> Everyone keeps saying that, but I've watched Ep8 twice now and I don't see any evidence of that. No red wisps, nothing. She stuck her hand out to do something, but she/adult Wanda got yanked back under the bed so we didn't see what happened. Normally a missile like that goes kablooey when it hits, and since this one didn't, it was probably a dud. I don't see that she had anything to do with that. What am I missing?


I'm in this camp too. Granted I haven't understood 90% of what's been going on, but this confused me too. I saw nothing in that scene that indicated she "stopped the bomb" from going off, so I was confused when I read online that the episode "totally changed what we thought we knew about Wanda's origins". Maybe I missed something, but what in the episode validated that she had powers before the Mind Stone?

Also, I was confused on the time line of Vision's body. He died five years earlier in Wakanda - was SWORD experimenting on him for five full years? And if it was Wanda's energy that unlocked the answer to reviving him (or a version of him), then why didn't he revive when she was in the lab with her glowing hand on his forehead?

I think a lot of the show is lost on me because I don't follow the comics, only the MCU. I'm not grasping the significance of certain things.

Is this right:

*Wanda was always a witch (albeit latently) and it wasn't until she interacted with the mind stone that her powers fully manifested (for some reason). 
*After un-blipping, she goes to SWORD to get Vision's body and accepts that he's dead.
*She goes to land in Westview that Vision planned to live with her in (how many years has that land just been sitting there?)
*She has a breakdown and creates a false reality around the town based on the sitcoms she loved as a kid so that she can pretend to have her happy life. 
*if the vision in Westview is an illusion created by Wanda, how does he have the power to unlock the residents from the spell?

Where does Agatha fit in? If she's not causing the Westview drama, then where did she come from? Did she "sense" what was going on, and then insert herself into the town to try to figure out Wanda's power? if that's true, and she didn't CAUSE what's happening, then what is the "Agatha all along" angle? What DID she cause? Wanda created the town and her fake life, but the episode before showed Agatha pulling all the strings. I'm sure I missed something here but I found this confusing. This is why I shouldn't do other stuff while watching


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

All we know for sure is that Agatha assumes Wanda stopped the bomb from going off and Wanda doesn't think she had anything to do with it. I don't think either theory can be proven correct, just assumed one way or another.



mrdazzo7 said:


> Also, I was confused on the time line of Vision's body. He died five years earlier in Wakanda - was SWORD experimenting on him for five full years? And if it was Wanda's energy that unlocked the answer to reviving him (or a version of him), then why didn't he revive when she was in the lab with her glowing hand on his forehead?


She wasn't trying. She had no thoughts of reviving him, she was just trying to see if he was still in there. (Even with Hayward not-so-subtle prodding to put the idea in her head).



mrdazzo7 said:


> *Wanda was always a witch (albeit latently) and it wasn't until she interacted with the mind stone that her powers fully manifested (for some reason).


I would add that her latent abilities are now likely to be the reason she had a positive interaction with the mind stone, instead of being killed like all the other subjects.



mrdazzo7 said:


> *if the vision in Westview is an illusion created by Wanda, how does he have the power to unlock the residents from the spell?


She didn't just make an fake reality or an illusionionary vision to play along with. She made an actual reality, and she made a Vision, actual and whole. Powers, independent thought (although seeded with memories of her choosing), the whole enchilada.



mrdazzo7 said:


> Where does Agatha fit in? If she's not causing the Westview drama, then where did she come from? Did she "sense" what was going on, and then insert herself into the town to try to figure out Wanda's power? if that's true, and she didn't CAUSE what's happening, then what is the "Agatha all along" angle? What DID she cause? Wanda created the town and her fake life, but the episode before showed Agatha pulling all the strings. I'm sure I missed something here but I found this confusing. This is why I shouldn't do other stuff while watching


I think you've got it right. Wanda made a perfect town, Agatha's been screwing with it. Some aspects we know were Wanda, some aspects we know were Agatha (because she admitted to them), some aspects, we're unsure.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> A) It keep beeping and blinking, which one would assume a dud wouldn't.


Maybe they accidentally put toaster parts in that bomb.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Agatha has just been doing highjnks guys..


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

martinp13 said:


> If she didn't open it until she got to Westview, how did she know where to go?
> 
> And when she got out of the car in Westview, she left it on the seat, then she walks to the house and it's in her hand. Magic!


I meant when we first see the letter she doesn't open it. So we know she's opened it before.

-smak-


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

martinp13 said:


> Everyone keeps saying that, but I've watched Ep8 twice now and I don't see any evidence of that. No red wisps, nothing. She stuck her hand out to do something, but she/adult Wanda got yanked back under the bed so we didn't see what happened. Normally a missile like that goes kablooey when it hits, and since this one didn't, it was probably a dud. I don't see that she had anything to do with that. What am I missing?


It's chaos magic. Bad things that are supposed to happen, don't.

-smak-


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

Interesting that the "Dick Van **** Show" show episode young Wanda picks for the family to watch is the one involving aliens (it's a parody of "The Twilight Zone").

I'm just going to assume that Agatha's magic is purple as an homage to Kathryn Hahn's alma mater (Northwestern).


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Philosofy said:


> Can someone explain the significance of white vision? That came along after I stopped reading comics.


LA Times: 'WandaVision' finally calls Wanda 'the Scarlet Witch.' Here's why that matters


> In the comics, the Vision has also appeared in this all-white form, and under similar circumstances. A 1980s "Avengers" storyline saw him take over all the computers on Earth, and although his friends stopped him before he did anything more drastic, his actions put him on every government's radar - and led to his kidnapping and disassembly by government agents frightened by the extent of his powers.
> 
> Wanda and the West Coast Avengers were able to rescue the Vision and put him back together. And although his body was reassembled, his skin was damaged and lost its original hue. But even more significant, Vision was revived without his emotions. Meaning he could remember being married to Wanda, but he couldn't actually feel love anymore.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Ok. Here’s what happened so far.

Sometime after Captain America: Civil War, Vision, hoping that some day Wanda will be able to come in from the cold, buys a plot of land in the suburbs for them to build a house and live in. Apparently, Vision had money or got a mortgage. Maybe Tony Stark lent it to him. Then The Snap happened. The land sits fallow for five years. Somehow government and land ownership laws survived with half the population gone, and no one said, “They’re gone, It’s mine now.” If Vision had a mortgage, the bank didn’t foreclose. No auction for failing to pay property taxes, etc.

At some point during the five-year snap, SWORD recovers and takes possession of Vision’s body that was in Wakanda. Half the population was gone. Things were crazy. Tony Stark wasn’t paying attention moved to the woods with Pepper (and later their daughter). Or maybe SWORD were supposed to be the good guys and Tony just let them have it. They start doing experiments to see if they could resurrect/recreate him. They don’t care about Vision the “person,” they only care about the weapon. 

Five years later, Wanda is blipped back, fights Thanos. We see Wanda at Tony Stark’s funeral, which means that it happened sometime less than three weeks after his death. Like anyone else after a loved one dies, Wanda goes through Vision’s stuff and finds the letter and deed. Off camera and before the series starts, she goes to see the property at least once. Wanda somehow finds out that SWORD has Vision’s body.

She drives to SWORD and has the deed/letter (which she has obviously seen and read) on the car seat next to her. She goes in and asks to see him and/or take his body so she could bury him. She first wanted to see if she could “feel him,” if it were possible for him to still be alive. But no, she couldn’t. So she just wanted to take him so he we wouldn’t be experimented on. Whether she was going to bury him at the plot or not, that’s just conjecture. Hayward tells her no. So she leaves. She doesn’t take the body.

She goes back to her car. We, the audience, see the deed/letter for the first time and are surprised. But Wanda isn’t surprised because she put it there. She drives out to the plot in Westview and realizes that Vision’s really dead and his dream of them growing old together in the house will never happen.

Wanda explodes in grief and magic. She turns the crappy depressed town and its residents into her sitcom paradise. Somehow, she creates a fully functioning Vision out of nothing. SWORD is able to monitor vibranium and the Vision that Wanda created was made out of $3 billion or so worth of Vibranium.

Meanwhile, Agnes is somewhere else. She’s a big witch nerd. She’s like Hermione Granger. She has spent centuries studying spells, and runes, and all of the things you need to do magic. You need specific magic words. You need eye of newt. Runes actually do things. It takes years to master even the small things, and she’s the best there is. Suddenly, she senses that someone else cast thousands of spells at once, with more power than she ever saw before. Agnes is like, “WTF”.

So Agnes travels to Westview to figure out what is going on. With her magic ability she was able to get into the hex area and protect her mind while she is in there. She moves into the house next door and befriends Wanda to try to understand how Wanda did it. She tries to goad Wanda into dropping the pretense and creates some mischief doing so.

Finally, she gets tired of it and goes the A Christmas Carol route. When Wanda is trapped in Agnes’s basement, Agnes is surprised that Wanda doesn’t know anything about the simplest rune protections. That’s like freshman year witch school stuff. Agnes discovered that Wanda never learned any of the “standard” witch stuff. She’s not using regular magic, she is using Chaos Magic.

And that makes her The Scarlet Witch. We don’t know exactly what that means in the context of the MCU, but it will probably be some legendary witch character with special powers.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Good summary, although you soft-pedal Agatha. Don't forget, she's evil. Always has been. Almost certainly always will be. All she wants, all she's ever wanted, is power, and she'll do anything to get it.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Agatha be all jelly of Wanda


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Good summary, although you soft-pedal Agatha. Don't forget, she's evil. Always has been. Almost certainly always will be. All she wants, all she's ever wanted, is power, and she'll do anything to get it.


Maybe, but I'm trying to base it only on what we've seen on screen so far. In the scene in Salem, she was protecting herself. I expect Agatha is going to be evil the same way that Magneto is evil. Sometimes and sometimes not. She's out for herself, but I expect to see her fighting against SWORD on Wanda's side next week.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Good summary, although you soft-pedal Agatha. Don't forget, she's evil. Always has been. Almost certainly always will be. All she wants, all she's ever wanted, is power, and she'll do anything to get it.


If you're including the comics as always has been evil, that's not really true.

And if you're including this show, I'm not sure what you're basing that on? Killing the witches that were trying to burn her alive doesn't count as evil.

What she's done in the show so far, not evil either.

-smak-


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> Sometime after Captain America: Civil War, Vision, hoping that some day Wanda will be able to come in from the cold, buys a plot of land in the suburbs for them to build a house and live in. Apparently, Vision had money or got a mortgage. Maybe Tony Stark lent it to him. Then The Snap happened. The land sits fallow for five years. Somehow government and land ownership laws survived with half the population gone, and no one said, "They're gone, It's mine now." If Vision had a mortgage, the bank didn't foreclose. No auction for failing to pay property taxes, etc.


In the comics, the Maria Stark Foundation footed the bills for the Avengers and gave each Avenger a weekly stipend if they wished.
(In the 1970s, it was $1000 a week. Don't know what Tony would authorize today.)

They also had the option of having a room at Avengers' Mansion.
(And later Avengers' Tower I believe. Peter Parker lived there for a while in the 2000s.)

Vision and Wanda banked their stipends and lived at the Mansion for a while so that they could save additional money and eventually bought a house in New Jersey.

In the MCU, this has not been specified but I'm assuming that Tony gave them some money in return for being Avengers.
Perhaps Vision's will named Friday as his executor.

Although I'm also unclear as to how long SWORD had Vision's body.
Did they get it right after the Battle of Wakanda or did they get it due to the fallout of Tony's death?

If it was former, maybe during the five year gap, SWORD was lacking in manpower to do a real study of Vision's body.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

smak said:


> If you're including the comics as always has been evil, that's not really true.
> 
> And if you're including this show, I'm not sure what you're basing that on? Killing the witches that were trying to burn her alive doesn't count as evil.
> 
> ...


But what was clearly stated and what her actions so far tend to show is that she wants power.
Badly.
For what purpose, we're not sure but usually it's not for humanitarian purposes.

(That doesn't stop her from having a "Come to Jesus" moment in the future though.)


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

smak said:


> If you're including the comics as always has been evil, that's not really true.
> 
> And if you're including this show, I'm not sure what you're basing that on? Killing the witches that were trying to burn her alive doesn't count as evil.
> 
> What she's done in the show so far, not evil either.


We don't know that they were trying to burn her alive...I suspect they were trying to depower her, because of her pursuit of black magic. It certainly wasn't a traditional witchy bonfire (no kindling, and there was no fire involved, just magical emanations).

What she's done on the show is to continue to pursue power at any cost, complete with evil cackling. Where a better person would try to get through to Wanda by helping her work through her trauma, Agatha tried to get through by breaking her. Complete with evil cackling (and the occasional taunt). I think the only way the could have been more clear that she is pure evil is by having a flashing "Pure Evil" sign appear on the screen, with an arrow pointed at Agatha.

The comics, of course, have nothing to do with the show.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

smak said:


> What she's done in the show so far, not evil either.


Killing Sparky isn't evil?


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

smak said:


> She constantly warned the kids to not go past Willis Ave. So yah, if they go where Vision went they'd have the same almost fate.
> 
> -smak-


Also makes sense that she had to expand the hex to save him.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> We don't know that they were trying to burn her alive...I suspect they were trying to depower her, because of her pursuit of black magic. It certainly wasn't a traditional witchy bonfire (no kindling, and there was no fire involved, just magical emanations).


Someone translated the Latin they were chanting when zapping her and it was basically "die monster". That plus the fact that she started glowing what looked hot red, seems to indicate they were trying to kill her rather than de-power her. She then turned their spell back on them and sucked all their life force.

She also didn't initiate the attack on "mother". She was still trying to de-escalate at that point. It wasn't till mother attacked her, that she killed mother, so all of that seemed like self defense.

It does seem like Agatha could have done a lot of more evil things trying to snap Wanda out of her psychosis besides trying to mess up a magic show and do other silly things.

So far the only really evil thing she did was kill Sparky, but then again Sparky might not have even been real.

She did feed a bug to her rabbit, but I'm not sure that's "evil".


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Turtleboy said:


> Maybe, but I'm trying to base it only on what we've seen on screen so far.


How about the scene where she slams Wanda back-and-forth against the walls? Also she killed Sparky, not a real dog but still somebody's dog. Just "tough love" maybe?

[*Edit: *oops, I didn't see there was another page to read. The Sparky thing's been said. But how about the torture?]


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I was thinking. Why did Hayward send Monica to Westview?


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Agatha song was hard to get out of our heads!


So


Turtleboy said:


> Maybe, but I'm trying to base it only on what we've seen on screen so far. In the scene in Salem, she was protecting herself. I expect Agatha is going to be evil the same way that Magneto is evil. Sometimes and sometimes not. She's out for herself, but I expect to see her fighting against SWORD on Wanda's side next week.


I agree Agatha is insanely curious as to how this incredible hex has happened. Controlling thousands in real time? As well as putting up a barrier and some kind games as well. (Agent Woo: "can't you feel it?". Agatha is hunting for knowledge to beef up her magic. We still don't know the date of Vision or the kids although I am not optimistic.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> I was thinking. Why did Hayward send Monica to Westview?


Probably to get rid of her. At the time Hayward had no idea Wanda and "Vision" were there as he had Vision.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

morac said:


> Probably to get rid of her. At the time Hayward had no idea Wanda and "Vision" were there as he had Vision.


Excellent point!


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

A curious thing is how long did sword have visions body. was it really laid out on that table for years?

Did they take it out of mothballs when Wanda came back? On a hunch she might be the key to revive him?


-smak-


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> Ok. Here's what happened so far.


Awesome recap.  Yeah, the "Agatha All Along" is that Agatha's been poking at Wanda to try to snap her out of this. She doesn't say she created anything, just that she was "messing things up". I bet Agatha's the one behind the commercials.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I'd never heard of Kathryn Hahn before this show but from what I read here and elsewhere on the internet it's like she's the greatest actor in the history of acting. She seems like just another professional actor to me. I looked up her resume on IMDB and I had never watched any of her credits.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

How did Agatha know about Pietro, enough to recreate him?


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

eddyj said:


> How did Agatha know about Pietro, enough to recreate him?


she watched the news coverage of the Sokovia incident ?


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

eddyj said:


> How did Agatha know about Pietro, enough to recreate him?


I guess the same way she knew about the infinity stones.

It seems like the Avengers like to make public everything they know.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

morac said:


> I guess the same way she knew about the infinity stones.
> 
> It seems like the Avengers like to make public everything they know.


yeah.

Same way Darcy knows about Vision being dead. And that the "Pietro" that showed up to Wanda's house was "re-cast"


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> I'd never heard of Kathryn Hahn before this show but from what I read here and elsewhere on the internet it's like she's the greatest actor in the history of acting. She seems like just another professional actor to me. I looked up her resume on IMDB and I had never watched any of her credits.


The impression I get is that after a very long and busy career, nobody knew that she had THIS in her...


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## firerose818 (Jul 21, 2003)

smak said:


> A curious thing is how long did sword have visions body. was it really laid out on that table for years?
> 
> Did they take it out of mothballs when Wanda came back? On a hunch she might be the key to revive him?
> 
> -smak-


I swear Hayward had a line that they had taken apart and put back together Vision's body multiple times but it took magic from the Hex to get it working. It made me think it's been five years of constant experimentation.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

jsmeeker said:


> Same way Darcy knows about Vision being dead. And that the "Pietro" that showed up to Wanda's house was "re-cast"


Who knows that HEX Vision is not the original Vision? Does Darcy know, or just Hayward?


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

SullyND said:


> Who knows that HEX Vision is not the original Vision? Does Darcy know, or just Hayward?


At this point only Hayward and his goons. The edited video he showed Darcy and the others showed Wanda "breaking" in and he said she stole Vision.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

SullyND said:


> Who knows that HEX Vision is not the original Vision? Does Darcy know, or just Hayward?


I'm pretty sure Darcy doesn't know. Hayward told her that Wanda stole Vision's body. And then in her conversation with Vision in the truck she talked about Wanda just "switching him back on", and "I don't get why you can't leave the Hex".


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> yeah.
> 
> Same way Darcy knows about Vision being dead. And that the "Pietro" that showed up to Wanda's house was "re-cast"


Darcy is a friend of Thor's so she may have a level of access that the average Joe doesn't.

Agatha is a witch and knows many things.
(And the Ancient One knew all about the Infinity Stones.)


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

JYoung said:


> (And the Ancient One knew all about the Infinity Stones.)


Yes, but she also was wearing one around her neck.


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The impression I get is that after a very long and busy career, nobody knew that she had THIS in her...


They should have paid more attention to her voice acting in "Into the Spider-Verse," then!

(And I see she also played an "evil witch" in a sketch on Stephen Colbert's show a few years ago.)


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

trainman said:


> They should have paid more attention to her voice acting in "Into the Spider-Verse," then!


I loved her back in Crossing Jordan!


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

cheesesteak said:


> I'd never heard of Kathryn Hahn before this show but from what I read here and elsewhere on the internet it's like she's the greatest actor in the history of acting. She seems like just another professional actor to me. I looked up her resume on IMDB and I had never watched any of her credits.


I think she was on SNL a while back and I know she has been in a bunch of movies in supporting roles.


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## GoPackGo (Dec 29, 2012)

Random User 7 said:


> I think she was on SNL a while back


I suspect you're thinking of Ana Gasteyer.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

GoPackGo said:


> I suspect you're thinking of Ana Gasteyer.


I think so too. She was on Parks and Rec, though. In a recurring role.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

TonyD79 said:


> I think so too. She was on Parks and Rec, though. In a recurring role.


She has a wide range and does it well whether it be voice work and animated programs or over the top humor like in Bad Moms or more serious stuff like in Mrs. Fletcher.


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

GoPackGo said:


> I suspect you're thinking of Ana Gasteyer.


Ah yes, that is correct.


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## Win Joy Jr (Oct 1, 2001)

morac said:


> Killing Sparky isn't evil?


Never saw the body.

I'm in the camp that Agatha isn't evil.


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## Win Joy Jr (Oct 1, 2001)

Going back to the witch trials, I liked that it was a spin on the history. It was Agatha being tried by her “Peers” who may not have had the entire story correct. I think the attempt to strip her of her powered WAS as death sentence. She was not evil back then, but not a “good witch”. Had her mother stood down, Agatha would not have killed her. 

Agatha is not a social worker, she wanted to know exactly how Wanda did what she did. The “torture” has to be viewed from the perspective that Agatha was trying to snap Wanda back into reality. 

we have a lot of characters still MIA. It will be an interesting final episode. No way can their be a season 2 unless Westview becomes a sort of safe house for Wanda.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

firerose818 said:


> I swear Hayward had a line that they had taken apart and put back together Vision's body multiple times but it took magic from the Hex to get it working. It made me think it's been five years of constant experimentation.


He did. But he wasn't director until Maria rambeau died. So did he initiate this cataract project?

I'm guessing so. Maria rambeau probably just kept vision in storage.

-smak-


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

JYoung said:


> Darcy is a friend of Thor's so she may have a level of access that the average Joe doesn't.


She was also Jane Foster's research assistant, and Jane was a SHIELD research scientist, so Darcy likely had access that way as well.


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## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

GoPackGo said:


> I suspect you're thinking of Ana Gasteyer.


Geez. Never realized how much they look alike. I've probably confused them more often than I've realized.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Agatha is definitely a bad guy. We know from Doctor Strange and the Ancient One that the only way you can prolong your life is from dark magic. Agatha is definitely oozing with dark magic.

I also have a theory of how this will end. When we saw Wanda remake Westview, Vision was created from yellow energy. That’s the mind stone. My theory is that Wanda was always the Scarlet Witch. That’s why the mind stone did not kill her. She did siphon off some power from the mind stone, but it was inconsequential. With the power she had from the main stone she re-created V Vision’s soul within Westview. But we know that she did not have his body. Now that the body has been reanimated, she will eventually put his soul into it and have him back.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

But he doesn't have memories beyond what Wanda chaos-ed into him. Unless they're just buried or something. They didn't come back when he briefly was outside the Hex. Maybe someone has a backup.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Vision was probably too concerned about coming apart at the seams to think about memories he didn't know were missing.


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## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

morac said:


> Killing Sparky isn't evil?


I guess the answer might be is Sparky "real"? Or did Wanda create Sparky using her powers?


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

martinp13 said:


> But he doesn't have memories beyond what Wanda chaos-ed into him. Unless they're just buried or something. They didn't come back when he briefly was outside the Hex. Maybe someone has a backup.


He doesn't need the memories, just his soul. It will be like the Adam Sandler movie 50 First Dates. They will make new memories.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

cheesesteak said:


> I'd never heard of Kathryn Hahn before this show but from what I read here and elsewhere on the internet it's like she's the greatest actor in the history of acting. She seems like just another professional actor to me. I looked up her resume on IMDB and I had never watched any of her credits.


I first saw her on Crossing Jordan with Jill Hennessy. She was one of the main supporting characters on that show and has popped up in a lot of other TV shows and movies since then.


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## leeherman (Nov 5, 2007)

Question for the masses...

As someone who's not at all into Marvel, super heroes, and comics, is this show something I should be watching?

I watched the trailers on Disney+ and the old school sitcom vibe appealed to me but I know nothing about Marvel characters.

What say you?

LH


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

leeherman said:


> Question for the masses...
> 
> As someone who's not at all into Marvel, super heroes, and comics, is this show something I should be watching?
> 
> ...


I'd think if you accept there'd be some major confusing plot points going on, you could probably enjoy it. Also other than the title characters, there are a few other characters we've seen in other movies, but so far nothing about those other characters is really need to know regarding this show but the finale has yet to air so we'll see if the trend continues.


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

Philosofy said:


> Agatha is definitely a bad guy. We know from Doctor Strange and the Ancient One that the only way you can prolong your life is from dark magic. Agatha is definitely oozing with dark magic.


Using that logic wouldn't that make Thor a bad guy?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Random User 7 said:


> Using that logic wouldn't that make Thor a bad guy?


When did Thor prolong his life?


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> When did Thor prolong his life?


Did I miss something? Did Agatha say that she did?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Random User 7 said:


> Did I miss something? Did Agatha say that she did?


Well, she's still alive! Humans don't typically live for several centuries without some kind of life prolongation...


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, she's still alive! Humans don't typically live for several centuries without some kind of life prolongation...


But how do you know she is human?


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## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, she's still alive! Humans don't typically live for several centuries without some kind of life prolongation...


There is Cher.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

leeherman said:


> I know nothing about Marvel characters.


Here's a basic primer focusing on Wanda and Vision before the events of Wandavision. I've tried my best to keep the focus on what is needed for the show.



Spoiler



Vision is a sentient machine powered by The Mind Stone in his forehead, an Infinity Stone which are extremely powerful (godlike?) and there are 6 in total. His body was originally made to house an evil program called Ultron, but the the Avengers stole the machine and put a different program into it which became Vision. His body is also made of a special metal called Vibranium which is super rare and special, its what Captain America's shield is made of and Back Panthers suit.

Wanda grew up in Sokovia with her twin brother Pietro. When they were kids, a Tony Stark branded missile (who eventually becomes Iron Man, but pre Iron Man Tony stark is a weapons dealer) crashed into their apartment killing their parents, and trapping the twins. Staring at the Stark name on the missile they grew a large hatred for him. Later they volunteered for some shady Sokovian military experiments and Wanda got psychic/telekinetic powers and her brother got super speed (just like the Flash). Wanda was experimented on using the Mind Stone.

In the movie Age of Ultron they were working with Ultron (an evil sentient computer program) to destroy the Avengers until they learned he was planning to kill all life on Earth so they switched sides, and The Avengers accepted them mostly because they just needed the help. Pietro was killed in the battle but both he and Wanda helped The Avengers enough she was invited to stay with them and she really had nowhere else to go, as she was mourning the death of her brother. Vision stayed with The Avengers after destroying Ultron as he too had nowhere else to go, and is partly he is made of a former AI program that was inside Tony Stark's Iron Man suit.

In the movie Civil War, it was hinted there was a romantic kinship forming between the two but their ideologies pulled them into opposites sides of an argument between Tony Stark and Captain America, essentially should The Avengers have autonomous authority or should they bend to the will of the United Nations and the governments of the world. At the end Captain Americas side (who Wanda sided with) were considered fugitives and went into hiding as they didn't trust governments to make decisions for them.

In the movie Infinity War, Thanos wanted to destroy 50% of all life in the galaxy thinking it was too crowded and this act was a mercy to those who would be left behind. The movie starts with the Avengers still split from Civil War and Thanos uses this fact to collect the Infinity Stones and use them to complete his task just by snapping his fingers. During a battle Vision asks Wanda to use her powers to destroy the Infinity Stone in his head, as her powers make her unique in being able to destroy one of the stones. She does this and is immediately heart broken as it kills Vision. However Thanos had another Infinity Stone called the Time Stone and was able to rewind time 30 seconds to before she destroyed it bringing Vision back to life and returning the Mind Stone, and he crushes Visions head ripping the mind stone from Visions forehead, killing him yet again. Wanda has the memories of both these times Vision is killed. At the end they lose the fight, and 50% of all life turns to dust. Wanda is one of the 50% turned to dust. No one knows what happens to Visions body after this.

In the movie End Game, 5 years have passed since they lost to Thanos and The Avengers have been able to recollect all the infinity stones and use them to return everyone who was turned to dust from Thanos, including Wanda. Thanos following the stones, launches an attack just after they're used again, and is trying to recollect the Infinity Stones from the Avengers, but now wants to kill all life in the universe and recreate the universe as he see fit. There's a scene where an enraged Wanda, from her point of view its been only minutes since Vision has been killed twice (once by her and once by Thanos) uses that rage to almost defeat Thanos on her own using her powers, but he instructs his war/space ships to blast down on the battle field on everyone including him and Wanda to make the battle field dangerous enough to distract her and free himself of her powers to try to get the stones, that are in a state of rapidly changing hands during the battle like a game of rugby. In the end Tony Stark ends up with the stones and uses them to turn Thanos and all his troops/supporters into dust killing them, but it kills Tony Stark (Iron Man) in the process as he's only human and using the stones unleashes a ton of radiation on the user. There's a funeral for Tony at the end and Wanda is seen grieving, presumably for Vision.

The characters we've seen before
Monica Rambeau: We saw her as a child during the movie Captain Marvel which takes place in the 1980's. She is the daughter of Maria Rambeau, who the best friend (or more?) of Carol Danvers (Captain Marvel) and considered Danvers her aunt as they were all living together and Carol up until the event that gave her powers was helping to raise Monica. After the events of the Captain Marvel movie Carol Danvers leaves earth and isn't seen again until the End Game movie.

Darcy Lewis: She was in the first Thor movie as an intern to physicists looking into strange readings in New Mexico, that were the result of Thor and his kind using as a bridge to cross between worlds. Her experience in the first and 2nd Thor movie and her proximity to the ongoingx have made her a kind of expert.

Jimmy Woo: His only other appearance was in the 2nd Ant-Man movie, Ant-Man and the Wasp. He's an FBI agent who was tasked to keep eyes on Paul Lang (Ant Man) after the events of Civil War. Ant-Man sided with Captain America but he had a family so instead of going on the run with the rest, he turned himself in and was subjected to house arrest for siding against the UN and the governments of the world.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

robojerk said:


> Here's a basic primer focusing on Wanda and Vision before the events of Wandavision. I've tried my best to keep the focus on what is needed for the show.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's way too much info for someone who knows nothing about Marvel to digest and most of it is not needed to watch this show.

Arguably, I think the show would be more enjoyable the _less_ you know going into it as the more you know, the less surprises there are. Case in point, I knew absolutely nothing about Agatha Harkness, but watched several review videos that kept saying she was Agnes and then talking about who she was.

I feel kind of cheated that the twist in episode 6 wasn't a twist since I had been kind of spoiled for it since episode 1.

In the end though, everything you need to know is explicitly given to you by the show, though you might be confused at first, which I believe was the intention.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Her entire life has been one giant power-grab. I don't think she was being burned at the stake; I think she was being de-powered...because she was willing to do evil to gain more power. And now, she's using Wanda to gain more power.
> 
> The MCU Agatha seems to be pure evil. In the past two episodes, I have not seen one thing that hints otherwise. And if they're setting her up to be a good guy, they would have been dropping hints.


I'm in the camp that the 1693 Salem scene was not showing us that Agatha was evil from the start. She seemed to be almost an unwitting conduit when the other witches tried to kill/de-power her and the power bounced back against them. And then when just her mother was left, she seemed to want to de-escalate and reconcile, but the mother attacked her and forced her hand.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> I'm in the camp that the 1693 Salem scene was not showing us that Agatha was evil from the start. She seemed to be almost an unwitting conduit when the other witches tried to kill/de-power her and the power bounced back against them. And then when just her mother was left, she seemed to want to de-escalate and reconcile, but the mother attacked her and forced her hand.


But the whole reason they were...doing whatever they were doing to her, was because they had decided that she was irredeemably evil (because of her use of black magic). And she said nothing to suggest they were wrong...only that she wanted what she wanted and screw everybody else.

As for that moment with her mother, that struck me as being a fakeout; her expression after she gave it up (because the fakeout didn't work) was more cartoon-villain than sad-at-what-she-had-to-do.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But the whole reason they were...doing whatever they were doing to her, was because they had decided that she was irredeemably evil (because of her use of black magic). *And she said nothing to suggest they were wrong...only that she wanted what she wanted and screw everybody else.*



I just rewatched that scene and I disagree with your interpretation. She said the rules bent to her power and that she couldn't control it. She asked them to teach her. Then when they shot their death spells at her, she screamed in pain and seemed resigned to her fate, and then looked surprised when the spells started to rebound and stopped affecting her. She may have become evil over the centuries, but at this point in 1693, at least the way it was depicted, it seemed that she was still quite new to magic and was simply not skilled enough to handle her clearly overwhelming power. 


Rob Helmerichs said:


> As for that moment with her mother, that struck me as being a fakeout; her expression after she gave it up (because the fakeout didn't work) was more cartoon-villain than sad-at-what-she-had-to-do.


At that point, after having killed all the other witches in the coven (in self-defense), I think she realized she didn't have a choice, but she still wanted to try. But when her mother aimed the spell at her, that was the last straw for her and she realized she had to kill her mother to survive. Definitely evil-adjacent, but it seems like she was pushed into it rather than having had those intentions all along.


----------



## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

A couple of people in the thread recently made reference to a second season. Isn't this a one-off miniseries? Not expressly mentioned on Disney+, but IMDb and wikipedia both seem to think so.


----------



## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

logic88 said:


> I guess the answer might be is Sparky "real"? Or did Wanda create Sparky using her powers?


I think Agatha was behind Sparky. She created him, she killed him... just more things she did to try to break Wanda out of her fantasy.


----------



## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> I just rewatched that scene and I disagree with your interpretation. She said the rules bent to her power and that she couldn't control it. She asked them to teach her. Then when they shot their death spells at her, she screamed in pain and seemed resigned to her fate, and then looked surprised when the spells started to rebound and stopped affecting her. She may have become evil over the centuries, but at this point in 1693, at least the way it was depicted, it seemed that she was still quite new to magic and was simply not skilled enough to handle her clearly overwhelming power.
> 
> At that point, after having killed all the other witches in the coven (in self-defense), I think she realized she didn't have a choice, but she still wanted to try. But when her mother aimed the spell at her, that was the last straw for her and she realized she had to kill her mother to survive. Definitely evil-adjacent, but it seems like she was pushed into it rather than having had those intentions all along.


"I didn't break your rules... they simply bent to my power (with a smirk)." I don't believe for one second she couldn't control it. She might not have known what would happen, but she seemed quite satisfied with the results. I personally think she did know what would happen, and the screaming was for show until they were "hooked in". Does that make her evil? Dunno, but definitely not good.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

hapster85 said:


> A couple of people in the thread recently made reference to a second season. Isn't this a one-off miniseries? Not expressly mentioned on Disney+, but IMDb and wikipedia both seem to think so.


I think people WANT a second season (because this show was so good), but what would it be? The "sitcom episodes" have served their purpose and are over. This was a mini-series to kick off and set up MCU Phase 4. We might get a "big bad" out of this series (or its mid/post-credits scene), but at least it should lead in to the Phase 4 movies and TV shows. The bonus is how well this series was received, so hopefully it taught Marvel how to make really good TV serieseseses.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

martinp13 said:


> I think people WANT a second season (because this show was so good), but what would it be? The "sitcom episodes" have served their purpose and are over. This was a mini-series to kick off and set up MCU Phase 4. We might get a "big bad" out of this series (or its mid/post-credits scene), but at least it should lead in to the Phase 4 movies and TV shows. The bonus is how well this series was received, so hopefully it taught Marvel how to make really good TV serieseseses.


I doubt there will be a second season.

But I would be very surprised if, at this point, given how it's been received, they aren't thinking about a sequel somewhere down the road (series or movie)...


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## leeherman (Nov 5, 2007)

robojerk said:


> I'd think if you accept there'd be some major confusing plot points going on, you could probably enjoy it. Also other than the title characters, there are a few other characters we've seen in other movies, but so far nothing about those other characters is really need to know regarding this show but the finale has yet to air so we'll see if the trend continues.


Thanks, robojerk!

I'll add it to my list of things to watch.

LH


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

leeherman said:


> Thanks, robojerk!
> 
> I'll add it to my list of things to watch.
> 
> LH


You may also want to watch the short _Legends_ collections of Wanda and Vision movie clips. _Legends_ is listed separately from _WandaVision_ in your main Disney+ interface. I don't think they're particularly well-organized, but may give you some sense of each character.


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## leeherman (Nov 5, 2007)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> You may also want to watch the short _Legends_ collections of Wanda and Vision movie clips. _Legends_ is listed separately from _WandaVision_ in your main Disney+ interface. I don't think they're particularly well-organized, but may give you some sense of each character.


Thanks for the tip!

LH


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Did this mark the first time in the MCU that Wanda was referred to as the Scarlett Witch? If so, I didn't realize that. In my mind she was always the Scarlett Witch, just like her brother was always Quicksilver.


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

gweempose said:


> Did this mark the first time in the MCU that Wanda was referred to as the Scarlett Witch? If so, I didn't realize that. In my mind she was always the Scarlett Witch, just like her brother was always Quicksilver.


Yes, the first time.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

gweempose said:


> Did this mark the first time in the MCU that Wanda was referred to as the Scarlett Witch?


'WandaVision' finally calls Wanda 'the Scarlet Witch.' Here's why that matters


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> 'WandaVision' finally calls Wanda 'the Scarlet Witch.' Here's why that matters


Thanks for the link! That was an interesting read. So if Wanda is now officially being referred to as the Scarlet Witch, does that mean she is now the first human in the MCU to technically be a mutant, since she was born with her powers?

Also, we now know that it was Agatha that created Fietro. Since he looks like Quicksilver from the other universe, this still begs the question where did she conjure him from?


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

gweempose said:


> Thanks for the link! That was an interesting read. So if Wanda is now officially being referred to as the Scarlet Witch, does that mean she is now the first human in the MCU to technically be a mutant, since she was born with her powers?


Well, she and her brother are the first persons the lawyers say can be mutants on Earth-616, lol. Everyone else needs terrigen crystals or something, and apparently the only cool mansion in Westchester County belongs to the Avengers because there's no Xavier School for Gifted Youngsters in this reality.



gweempose said:


> Also, we now know that it was Agatha that created Fietro. Since he looks like Quicksilver from the other universe, this still begs the question where did she conjure him from?


One of the WandaVision commercials used the word "Nexus", which refers to beings that exist in parallel across the multiverse or something like that. (This was created after my comic-reading years.) The Scarlett Witch may be a Nexus Being. So at this point all we know is that maybe Wanda or maybe Agatha pulled Fietro in from the Fox universe, with help from those other Nexus Beings known as lawyers. Or not.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

gweempose said:


> So if Wanda is now officially being referred to as the Scarlet Witch, does that mean she is now the first human in the MCU to technically be a mutant, since she was born with her powers?


Wanda was born a witch, not a mutant. If she was a mutant, Agatha's anti-witch runes spell wouldn't have worked.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

morac said:


> Wanda was born a witch, not a mutant. If she was a mutant, Agatha's anti-witch runes spell wouldn't have worked.


But isn't a witch a mutant? Anti-witch runes could work only against witch-type mutants...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

martinp13 said:


> But isn't a witch a mutant? Anti-witch runes could work only against witch-type mutants...


Not in Marvel Comics. There's always been some tension between Wanda being a witch and being a mutant (well, not _always _always; she was a just plain mutant for years, until they decided to make her literally a witch as well); they are clearly two different things, and different enough that at times it's been confusing just exactly what she really is.

There seems to be a similar confusion (at least with Agatha) in the MCU. My impression is that witchcraft is something you learn, not that you're born with, which is why Agatha was confused to learn that Wanda could do magic (and fairly powerful magic) without ever being trained. But even before that, she assumed that her anti-magic runes would work against Wanda...and she was right.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

gweempose said:


> Thanks for the link! That was an interesting read. So if Wanda is now officially being referred to as the Scarlet Witch, does that mean she is now the first human in the MCU to technically be a mutant, since she was born with her powers?
> 
> Also, we now know that it was Agatha that created Fietro. Since he looks like Quicksilver from the other universe, this still begs the question where did she conjure him from?


I don't think she created him. She can't do that. She made a point of Wanda being the only one who can create life. She controlled him, and that's all we know so far.

-smak-


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Not in Marvel Comics. There's always been some tension between Wanda being a witch and being a mutant (well, not _always _always; she was a just plain mutant for years, until they decided to make her literally a witch as well); they are clearly two different things, and different enough that at times it's been confusing just exactly what she really is.
> 
> There seems to be a similar confusion (at least with Agatha) in the MCU. My impression is that witchcraft is something you learn, not that you're born with, which is why Agatha was confused to learn that Wanda could do magic (and fairly powerful magic) without ever being trained. But even before that, she assumed that her anti-magic runes would work against Wanda...and she was right.


In episode 9, or beyond, they could easily make her a mutant, and nothing would change. I don't think there's anything we've seen here that proves it either way. Even Agatha is curious why she has these powers without doing witch stuff. You can take dozens of mutants we've seen in the comics, and think they're magical beings.

We need to know what the mindstone actually did to Wanda. If it "enhanced" her powers, then is she really the Scarlett Witch? The Scarlett Witch is a mythical powerful witch from birth. Up to her volunteering for Baron Von Strucker, she didn't even know she had powers.

If Wanda was just someone with some small abilities, greatly enhanced by the mind stone, then she's not The Scarlett Witch.

But if the mindstone just showed her future, and her allowed her to know her full potential, then she probably is.


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

Since none of this is real they literally can do anything. As long as the story is good people will be fine with it.


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## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

As indicated in the article linked above, Wanda's and Pietro's back stories have been retconned many times in the comics. From what we know so far, it seems they're being retconned now in the MCU. Hopefully episode 9 will give us more insight into exactly what that means, but I've a feeling it won't be answering all of our questions.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

smak said:


> I don't think she created him. She can't do that. She made a point of Wanda being the only one who can create life. She controlled him, and that's all we know so far.
> 
> -smak-


so, does that mean "Fietro" was just some random Westview resident that just happened to look like a Pietro and Agatha did some magic on him so he would pretend to be Wanda's brother?


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> so, does that mean "Fietro" was just some random Westview resident that just happened to look like a Pietro and Agatha did some magic on him so he would pretend to be Wanda's brother?


Maybe Fietro was the witness protection guy from episode 1?

Thought Agatha probably did "create" him, but he wasn't "alive" like Vision and the kids are. They have their own will.

edit: went back and checked and Agatha said Fietro was a "crystalline possession", which makes it sound like Fietro isn't even alive let alone human.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Maybe Wanda is a mutant witch.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

morac said:


> Maybe Fietro was the witness protection guy from episode 1?


After testifying against Fox Studios?


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> so, does that mean "Fietro" was just some random Westview resident that just happened to look like a Pietro and Agatha did some magic on him so he would pretend to be Wanda's brother?


i'm still holding out hope that he is actually from the Fox universe. Wanda was controlling almost everybody in Westview, and you would think that she would know that he was not under her control. However, the same could be said of Agatha, so that theory might be shot to hell


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

Disney Official Trailer: NOT A SPOILER!! "My name is Dr Stephen Strange and I have some questions for you." I am so psyched. The sad thing is it has to end.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

logic88 said:


> I guess the answer might be is Sparky "real"? Or did Wanda create Sparky using her powers?


Wanda wasnt even aware of Sparky until she caught the boys at the sink washing him/her.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

robojerk said:


> I'd think if you accept there'd be some major confusing plot points going on, you could probably enjoy it. Also other than the title characters, there are a few other characters we've seen in other movies, but so far nothing about those other characters is really need to know regarding this show but the finale has yet to air so we'll see if the trend continues.


Watching AGE OF ULTRON cant hurt.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Nothing really has to end.. The story can continue on in a movie


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

mattyro7878 said:


> Disney Official Trailer: NOT A SPOILER!! "My name is Dr Stephen Strange and I have some questions for you." I am so psyched. The sad thing is it has to end.


I don't know, that seems like a spoiler to me. Not everybody wants to watch teasers.

-smak-


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

And there is no official trailer.

It’s a fake.

And of course it’s a huge spoiler if it were true.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Yah, it's fake.

-smak-


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

mattyro7878 said:


> Disney Official Trailer: NOT A SPOILER!! "My name is Dr Stephen Strange and I have some questions for you." I am so psyched. The sad thing is it has to end.


How can you say 'NOT A SPOILER'???? That's ridiculous. Of course it would be.

But there is no "Disney Official Trailer" so it's ok.

But it's not ok, that you attempted


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Definitely not OK. I don't watch previews and don't want to have any expectations going into the finale.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

aww.. snap.. I got tricked. I did know there were fan made "previews" out there. But I didn't know there was no such thing as an official Disney +/Marvel preview/episode trailer

But that's OK. I had heard/read the speculation long ago anyway


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> But I didn't know there was no such thing as an official Disney +/Marvel preview/episode trailer


There was an official mid-season trailer which Disney released after episode 4.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> aww.. snap.. I got tricked. I did know there were fan made "previews" out there. But I didn't know there was no such thing as an official Disney +/Marvel preview/episode trailer
> 
> But that's OK. I had heard/read the speculation long ago anyway


There are such a thing as official Disney+/Marvel previews/episode trailers. Just not for ep 8 or 9.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

well.. some of us got tricked. oh well

But if it's fan made, it could just be wrong. I could make a trailer and have Tony Stark show up.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Fan created trailers are getting better and better quality wise, to the point where you almost can't tell the difference any more. And they are not presented as fan made (except in tiny little print somewhere). And they're being pumped out by the YouTube channels that re-share official trailers. 

It's getting really, *really* hard to tell what's real and what isn't.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

yeah.. some of us got fooled. I know a week or two ago, people here "warned" about fan made stuff out there. And I WAS trying to avoid YouTube until after seeing the newest episodes because a lot of the re-cap videos out there can be spoilery in the title or thumbnail.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I go to the official YouTube page.

https://youtube.com/c/marvel


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

see... I went there .. and didn't see it.. But found it elsewhere.. That should have been a big clue. 

I just saw "Official Disney Trailer" in the post so I believed it..

But whatever. Again, it may be wrong. and it's not, well, I think many were expecting it .


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Marvel doesn’t put huge spoilers in their previews anyway.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

It fooled me and now I can picture Strange saying that to Dormamu at one point.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> well.. some of us got tricked. oh well
> 
> But if it's fan made, it could just be wrong. I could make a trailer and have Tony Stark show up.


Yes could make your own trailer. Posting it on the official Marvel or Disney YouTube or Twitter feed is a bit harder.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

mattyro7878 said:


> It fooled me and now I can picture Strange saying that to Dormamu at one point.


I'll spoiler where I'm pretty sure that scene came from in case anyone hasn't seen the movie.



Spoiler



I'm pretty sure that scene came from Thor: Ragnarok when Strange was talking to Thor.


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

mattyro7878 said:


> Disney Official Trailer: NOT A SPOILER!! "My name is Dr Stephen Strange and I have some questions for you." I am so psyched. The sad thing is it has to end.


Wasn't that what he said to ... in a movie?


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

morac said:


> I spoiler where I'm pretty sure that scene came from in case anyone hasn't seen the movie.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes just saw this and agree


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

There's huge speculation that Dr. Strange will show up. It makes sense. He's the only one in the MCU who has the magic to stop Wanda. Plus, he has a movie coming out next year. 

But there have been no spoilers or leaks on this from Marvel.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Strange ex machina? Too easy.


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## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

kdmorse said:


> Fan created trailers are getting better and better quality wise, to the point where you almost can't tell the difference any more. And they are not presented as fan made (except in tiny little print somewhere). And they're being pumped out by the YouTube channels that re-share official trailers.
> 
> It's getting really, *really* hard to tell what's real and what isn't.


If you're at all aware of the material in question, fan-made trailers usually give themselves away pretty quickly because they're just recycling old footage. Sometimes they're fun to watch. Others are just annoying.

When I go looking for specific, newly released trailers, I always look for ones from the studios' YouTube channel first.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Strange ex machina? Too easy.


I have NO idea what's coming, but if they just chuck a Dr Strange cameo in there, I'm gonna be pissed! Give us something we DON'T SEE COMING, whatever it is. Shut the fanboys up for at least three seconds.  

Although, that said, look at Agatha. We all KNEW it was Agatha, from day 1.7, and... ta-da... it was Agatha.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

martinp13 said:


> Although, that said, look at Agatha. We all KNEW it was Agatha, from day 1.7, and... ta-da... it was Agatha.


Though really it wasn't Agatha, it was Wanda. "It's all Wanda".


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

morac said:


> Though really it wasn't Agatha, it was Wanda. "It's all Wanda".


He's referring to Agnes. "We all KNEW it was Agatha, from day 1.7, and... ta-da... it was Agatha."


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> He's referring to Agnes. "We all KNEW it was Agatha, from day 1.7, and... ta-da... it was Agatha."


Yes, sorry. I meant that the Agnes character turned out to be Agatha.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> There's huge speculation that Dr. Strange will show up. It makes sense. He's the only one in the MCU who has the magic to stop Wanda. Plus, he has a movie coming out next year.
> 
> But there have been no spoilers or leaks on this from Marvel.


That's what I am assuming. Elizabeth was on Fallon last night and in the interview she noted how she was currently filming Dr. Strange so I bet you are correct.

Also, go watch Fallon if you haven't. Jimmy and Elizabeth did a fun Fallonvision bit.



Spoiler



And Kathryn Hahn makes a timely appearance


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## Bruce24 (Jan 8, 2003)

jlb said:


> Also, go watch Fallon if you haven't. Jimmy and Elizabeth did a fun Fallonvision bit.


The FallonVision open is defiantly worth watching as is the interview, it's less than 15 minutes.

FallonVision link
Interview link


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

martinp13 said:


> Yes, sorry. I meant that the Agnes character turned out to be Agatha.


Well technically "all" of us didn't know it was Agatha from episode 1. The only reason we "all" knew is people kept referring to Agnes as Agatha both here in this thread and elsewhere.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

morac said:


> Well technically "all" of us didn't know it was Agatha from episode 1. The only reason we "all" knew is people kept referring to Agnes as Agatha both here in this thread and elsewhere.


exactly.. That's how I knew. Same way I knew Monica Rambeau was gonna get super powers.. Because people told me,


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

This is a *real* Marvel/Disney promo that was just released. It's 15 seconds and has nothing from the finale in it.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

What all those fake commercials in 'WandaVision' are really telling us


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> This is a *real* Marvel/Disney promo that was just released. It's 15 seconds and has nothing from the finale in it.


has someone done a frame by frame analysis yet to see if there are any hidden clues? Will need to watch a couple 20 minute long break down videos on YouTube just to be sure.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

This is pretty good! (And has no finale spoilers.)


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

I wasn’t a fan of the Tonight Show skit. Jimmy just isn’t a good late night host and his skits are reptative. He’s a funny and good guy, but I don’t see him lasting on the Tonight Show.


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## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

Random User 7 said:


> I wasn't a fan of the Tonight Show skit. Jimmy just isn't a good late night host and his skits are reptative. He's a funny and good guy, but I don't see him lasting on the Tonight Show.


Yeah, he's had 7 years. Another 15 or 20 and he's definitely out of there.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Random User 7 said:


> I wasn't a fan of the Tonight Show skit. Jimmy just isn't a good late night host and his skits are reptative. He's a funny and good guy, but I don't see him lasting on the Tonight Show.


He's not my cup of tea (I watch the monologues from all the others, but rarely bother with Fallon), but I think his brand of nice and fun brings good ratings and good online fan engagement so I don't expect he'll be going anywhere anytime soon.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> This is pretty good! (And has no finale spoilers.)


I thought it was very good. Probably confused the heck out of non-WV people, but very well done.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I like the return to weekly episodic TV and not having the whole series released at once. The anticipation, the ability to discuss and dissect each episode, is something I missed. Yes, I can watch released seasons once a week too, but I can't discuss them with people like this.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Turtleboy said:


> I like the return to weekly episodic TV and not having the whole series released at once. The anticipation, the ability to discuss and dissect each episode, is something I missed. Yes, I can watch released seasons once a week too, but I can't discuss them with people like this.


I think it depends on the show. This is definitely one that lends itself to (and was clearly built around) the weekly experience.

There are others where the show is really almost an eight-hour (or whatever) movie. Those do better, I'd say, in the binge format.


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## osu1991 (Mar 6, 2015)

Depends on people’s tastes. I still say this would be better binged. I don’t like weekly cliffhangers. As much as I want to watch falcon and winter soldier, I’ll most likely cancel Disney plus after this weeks episode and wait until falcon and winter soldier is over to resub.


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

DevdogAZ said:


> He's not my cup of tea (I watch the monologues from all the others, but rarely bother with Fallon), but I think his brand of nice and fun brings good ratings and good online fan engagement so I don't expect he'll be going anywhere anytime soon.


Last I read or heard, can't remember, Fallon was in last place in the ratings. Colbert in first and then Kimmel.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Random User 7 said:


> Last I read or heard, can't remember, Fallon was in last place in the ratings. Colbert in first and then Kimmel.


Fallon just had his contract extended at the end of 2020. I'm not sure how long the extension is, but Seth Meyers just signed an extension until 2025.


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

According to Conan, NBC doesn’t care much about contracts. 

Last I’ll say in this thread. I’m not saying they will replace him, I’m just not a fan and the ratings agree with me. There are no truly great late night hosts like years past because of the media market we are in. Doubt that will change anytime soon.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

Turtleboy said:


> I like the return to weekly episodic TV and not having the whole series released at once. The anticipation, the ability to discuss and dissect each episode, is something I missed. Yes, I can watch released seasons once a week too, but I can't discuss them with people like this.


Same. Mandalorian for instance wouldn't be nearly as enjoyable if dumped at once. Doubly true for Wandavision assuming it's one season only.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Yeah, some shows just have those water-cooler conversations built into them, and you can't do that with binge shows.

And as I said, this in particular is a show that was clearly designed to have those breaks in between episodes, to drive the buzz. Other shows are designed to be binge'd. It's nice, one way or the other, when the writers think it out and plan it that way.


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## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

Loved the finale. Just stay for both mid and after credits scenes FYI. I want more episodes!


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Yah, I really liked it. The Vision talking down Vision scene was amazing. The new Wanda costume is great.

Really liked the 2nd credits scene. I kind of thought she'd go learn with Dr Strange after, and this is pretty much just a different route of doing the same thing.

Her learning the magic book like Dr Strange while also being able to hang out outside was very cool.

And I can't be disappointed that a bunch of guest stars and guest characters that didn't happen didn't happen.

That's on me.

Only thing I probably would have changed is the Fietro. There's still no explanation of why it's Evan Peters.

100% would understand if Agatha made Mr Bohner look like ATJ

Maybe they could have shown a bit more of Monica's powers, but that's probably better for another place.

I think Samuel L Jackson is in Captain Marvel 2, so I guess it makes sense that a Skrull is coming to take Monica to him and the SWORD ship

-smak-


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

smak said:


> Her learning the magic book like Dr Strange while also being able to hang out outside was very cool.


...although as we've seen in Agents of SHIELD the Darkhold is basically a book of pure evil, so...

Meanwhile, Vision is still out there. And presumably Wanda still has the piece of the Mind Stone that's a part of her.

As for Fietro, it would seem the Evan Petersness of him is just a coincidence. Which I find a little disappointing...maybe the one misstep of an otherwise pretty much perfect show.

Can we put to rest any speculation that Agatha is anything but evil?


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

Whatever happened to the stuff from the earlier episode that introduced FBI Jimmy and Rambo? When he is explaining that he lost touch with a witness in Westview and then they talk to the police that explain there is no such place as Westview, that they are really from Eastview. 

So Westview is and was always a real place and the Eastview cops were just wrong? There never was an FBI witness?


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Wait, we never found out who was in witness protection, did we?


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## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

So without the Mind Stone, how does White Vision do some of his tricks like density manipulation and energy blasts?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Test said:


> Whatever happened to the stuff from the earlier episode that introduced FBI Jimmy and Rambo? When he is explaining that he lost touch with a witness in Westview and then they talk to the police that explain there is no such place as Westview, that they are really from Eastview.
> 
> So Westview is and was always a real place and the Eastview cops were just wrong? There never was an FBI witness?


The cops were confused by the magic Wanda was using to keep Westview hidden from the world. The FBI witness was just what brought Jimmy (and us) to Westview.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Ok. Maybe Agatha was evil.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

And the engineer that Monica was referring to was the one who built the vehicle to enter the hex.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

smak said:


> Only thing I probably would have changed is the Fietro. There's still no explanation of why it's Evan Peters.


hahah that's funny, I just now realized that they recast Quicksilver from ULTRON with Quicksilver from the Fox movies.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I think Evan Peters was just to troll the audience.


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

IMHO, the finale was a such a letdown. We have this big mystery start, and ending up as almost everyone predicted (it was Wanda All Along), but without the payoff of providing a lead to the next Marvel movie / series.

Yes, we got Monica / Photon, and going to the SWORD space station.

I was hoping for something about Mutants with Evan Peters, and Dr. Strange to at least have a cameo. All we got is the mention of "Sorcerer Supreme".


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

dtle said:


> IMHO, the finale was a such a letdown. We have this big mystery start, and ending up as almost everyone predicted (it was Wanda All Along), but without the payoff of providing a lead to the next Marvel movie / series.


I suspect WandaVision is absolutely a lead-in to Doctor Strange. And I wouldn't be surprised if Wanda were ultimately the Big Bad there. (After all, she's cuddled up with the Big Book of Evil...)


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## lambertman (Dec 21, 2002)

So, was the final scene an homage to Wanda's other favorite sitcom, Dexter?


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

dtle said:


> IMHO, the finale was a such a letdown. We have this big mystery start, and ending up as almost everyone predicted (it was Wanda All Along), but without the payoff of providing a lead to the next Marvel movie / series.
> 
> Yes, we got Monica / Photon, and going to the SWORD space station.
> 
> I was hoping for something about Mutants with Evan Peters, and Dr. Strange to at least have a cameo. All we got is the mention of "Sorcerer Supreme".


I actually loved the finale (the budget on that episode must have been insane). My only complaint was it was wrapped up too quickly. I did like that how Wanda won in that she was purposely missing Agatha to create the ruins.

I think the people who are disappointed are comic readers who assumed the show was going a specific direction based on the comics when there was no indication in show that that was ever the plan.

For example constant references to Mephisto and Nightmare, the Visions merging, and the kids joining the Avengers (though that could actually happen as we heard their voices in the after credit scene).

I think "Ralph" was the witness protection guy. That he was Evan Peters was an inside joke.


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> I think Evan Peters was just to troll the audience.


So, Pietro was actually an actor named Ralph Bohner. The Ralph that Agnes has been talking about?? Did the necklace give him super speed or something? Is it just supposed to be a coincident that he looks like the Quicksilver from Fox's X-Men universe? It would have been very nice to have this character explained a tad bit more.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

I kept expecting Clint Barton to show up since Jimmy called someone named Clint.

Overall I liked the show. I felt like it was a bit of a let down in the end but probably only because there has been so much hyped up theory about what MIGHT happen.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I think he said Cliff.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> Ok. Maybe Agatha was evil.


I dunno. She did the right thing, albeit probably for the wrong reasons, in getting Wanda to see what she was really doing to these people.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

wmcbrine said:


> I dunno. She did the right thing, albeit probably for the wrong reasons, in getting Wanda to see what she was really doing to these people.


But she couldn't have cared less about those people. Or Wanda. She just wanted her power.

It's weird to me how people defended her after she revealed herself as evil...and even now, when all doubt has been removed!


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

Very lackluster. I gave it a C, but should probably be graded lower. Very much a wasted opportunity.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

dtle said:


> IMHO, the finale was a such a letdown. We have this big mystery start, and ending up as almost everyone predicted (it was Wanda All Along), but without the payoff of providing a lead to the next Marvel movie / series.
> 
> Yes, we got Monica / Photon, and going to the SWORD space station.
> 
> I was hoping for something about Mutants with Evan Peters, and Dr. Strange to at least have a cameo. All we got is the mention of "Sorcerer Supreme".


It leads into at least 3 series/movies

-smak-


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

Like most finales it will not get 100 per cent approval. As far as "wrapping things up"...I dont think they had any intention of complete closure. Disney knows the bread is buttered on the movie side of things. It is a shame the wait is so long especially with a series that created so much excitement. I think we should trust the same people who gave us so many enjoyable movies will continue to provide excellent storytelling. Does anyone really want to say "ok, the story of Wanda and Vision and the boys is all tied up nice and neat?


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

The more I think about it, the more I'm astounded at the audience betrayal with using Evan Peters. That not only went nowhere, it was a real slap in the face.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Meh. Fun, but too much "we'll do this thing to create buzz" BS that they never had any intention of tying up. Evan Peters appearance, Bettany's "actor I've wanted to work with" trolling, witness protection guy, Monica's engineer. I feel completely used, like the poor saps under Wanda's spell.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

So, did white vision just, wander off?


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

Hoffer said:


> So, Pietro was actually an actor named Ralph Bohner.


When we saw that information the hex was still in place so that could be his character in "wanda's reality" we didn't see or hear anything about him after the hex was gone.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

kdmorse said:


> So, did white vision just, wander off?


He "pulled a Poochie"


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

zordude said:


> He "pulled a Poochie"


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## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

I enjoyed it. Sure, it left a lot of questions, but we knew that would be the case from the beginning.

The question of Evan Peters / Quicksilver still seems open ended to me.

I think the fate of Wanda's Vision is still open ended. He even said as much.

I'm excited to see where it all leads.

Still intending to rewatch the whole thing when I have the time.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

The oddest thing I saw was the red car that flew through the air (showing Wanda's scarlet magic), swerved around Agatha, and crashed into Agatha's house. Wanda goes over to it, ignoring Agatha for a good 20 seconds, and leans down to look in the new opening in the wall. Under the car wreckage, you see two tall zip-up boots with maybe some sort of lacing at the top but that could be debris. What the heck? Homage to Wizard of Oz? Fietro and Monica were seen LATER in the house, so it's not him. Why have that whole sequence if it's not important? Just really weird with ZERO explanation.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Pacing wise, I honestly think they ran out of time. It's as if they had a defined beginning, and a defined end. And in fleshing out the middle, they packed in more plot points than they could do justice to. They had that last 30 minutes well fleshed out (and it was fine), they knew exactly how they wanted Wanda's story to end here, and found themselves having to jump to that sequence of events dropping things out of the middle.

I can imagine a 10 episode timeline, and someone said "ok, but you only get 9". I can really imagine the person at Disney who green-lit this having no idea what it was going to turn phenomenon wise. But I can also imagine the writers just getting ahead of themselves in the middle.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

martinp13 said:


> The oddest thing I saw was the red car that flew through the air (showing Wanda's scarlet magic), swerved around Agatha, and crashed into Agatha's house. Wanda goes over to it, ignoring Agatha for a good 20 seconds, and leans down to look in the new opening in the wall. Under the car wreckage, you see two tall zip-up boots with maybe some sort of lacing at the top but that could be debris. What the heck? Homage to Wizard of Oz? Fietro and Monica were seen LATER in the house, so it's not him. Why have that whole sequence if it's not important? Just really weird with ZERO explanation.


It was certainly a wizard-of-oz joke. And when rewatching I was looking specifically to see if Agatha still had her boots on afterwards (she did).


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

zordude said:


> When we saw that information the hex was still in place so that could be his character in "wanda's reality" we didn't see or hear anything about him after the hex was gone.


My guess is that Ralph Bohner owned the house (2804) next to Wanda/Vision's future house. Wanda created the Hex, Agatha showed up, enchanted Ralph and gave him the man cave to live in, and took over his house as her base of operations in Westview. While not technically her husband, she did have a "Ralph" at home.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

martinp13 said:


> The oddest thing I saw was the red car that flew through the air (showing Wanda's scarlet magic), *swerved around Agatha, and crashed into Agatha's house. Wanda goes over to it, ignoring Agatha for a good 20 seconds*, and leans down to look in the new opening in the wall. Under the car wreckage, you see two tall zip-up boots with maybe some sort of lacing at the top but that could be debris. What the heck? Homage to Wizard of Oz? Fietro and Monica were seen LATER in the house, so it's not him. Why have that whole sequence if it's not important? Just really weird with ZERO explanation.
> 
> View attachment 58057


When I initially watched that scene, I was confused why Wanda was turning her back on Agatha and investigating the car/house without watching her back. But then I rewound and watched again and the car comes from behind Agatha, hits Agatha, and she's theoretically smashed between the front of the car and the house. Thus, Wanda is inspecting the wreckage to see if Agatha was killed, and that's likely what the boots were meant to make us think. However, since Agatha wasn't killed, there's no explanation for where the boots came from. Maybe Agatha cast a quick spell to throw Wanda off so Agatha would have a few seconds to strategize.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Damn, I watched it twice and didn't notice that it hit Agatha... third time is the charm! Back to the TV...

EDIT: You are absolutely correct... Agatha: "What do you say?" Wanda: scarlet wiggly-woo. Car: 4 ball, corner window. Nevermind, I'll just go sit in the corner.


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

zordude said:


> When we saw that information the hex was still in place so that could be his character in "wanda's reality" we didn't see or hear anything about him after the hex was gone.


I don't know. If it was Wanda's reality, why would she have an actor's headshot of her brother with the name Ralph Bohner.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

martinp13 said:


> Damn, I watched it twice and didn't notice that it hit Agatha... third time is the charm! Back to the TV...
> 
> EDIT: You are absolutely correct... Agatha: "What do you say?" Wanda: scarlet wiggly-woo. Car: 4 ball, corner window. Nevermind, I'll just go sit in the corner.


Silly question, did you see Captain America: Civil War? I ask, because "Oh, I can't hit you directly? Ok, I'll hit you with a car from behind." is a thing that happened. So we've already seen her do it once, making it even more obvious here in Wandavision. It was both a sound tactical plan, and a reference to a Movie.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

martinp13 said:


> My guess is that Ralph Bohner owned the house (2804) next to Wanda/Vision's future house. Wanda created the Hex, Agatha showed up, enchanted Ralph and gave him the man cave to live in, and took over his house as her base of operations in Westview. While not technically her husband, she did have a "Ralph" at home.


All this is 100% fine. It's just that there's no reason he should have looked like Evan Peters. There's no reason to believe Agatha knows what Peter Maximoff looks like from the X-Men universe.

-smak-


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

kdmorse said:


> Silly question, did you see Captain America: Civil War? I ask, because "Oh, I can't hit you directly? Ok, I'll hit you with a car from behind." is a thing that happened. So we've already seen her do it once, making it even more obvious here in Wandavision. It was both a sound tactical plan, and a reference to a Movie.


Agatha tells her, hurling your magic at me only makes me stronger. So Wanda hurls a car instead.

-smak-


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

Hoffer said:


> I don't know. If it was Wanda's reality, why would she have an actor's headshot of her brother with the name Ralph Bohner.


It wasn't her brother in her "story", that was Agatha Messing with the hex


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

smak said:


> There's no reason to believe Agatha knows what Peter Maximoff looks like from the X-Men universe.
> 
> -smak-


it will be interesting to see if this thread continues/pays off later. The doctor strange movie is the "multiverse of madness" after all, so I don't think we can assume she doesn't have multiverse knowledge.

Or... it was just a bit of stunt casting


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

zordude said:


> It wasn't her brother in her "story", that was Agatha Messing with the hex


That was Marvel messing with us.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That was Marvel messing with us.


DC's not allowed to do anything better than Marvel. So after DC did it with The Flash, clearly Marvel had to do it better with QuickSilver.

Whether they actually did it 'better' or not, only time will tell. If there's never any payoff or followup, and it was just casting for giggles, that's going to be quite disappointing.


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## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

I'm not sure why people are bothered by the Evan Peters/Quicksilver thing. It looked to me like he was just a neighbor that Agatha used to mess with Wanda. Him being the same actor as the x-men movies was just a fun thing to see for me. I don't feel betrayed... not sure what betrayal that would even be.

I don't care who the witness protection person is. To me, that was just a way to get Monica there. I forgot all about it after that mention of it.

I do think Agatha will be used again as she said Wanda will need her help. Sounds like Agatha knows something is going to happen (and probably wants more to protect herself, than any concern for Wanda).

The only thing I wanted was more of Darcy. 

Anyway, I loved it.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

kdmorse said:


> Silly question, did you see Captain America: Civil War? I ask, because "Oh, I can't hit you directly? Ok, I'll hit you with a car from behind." is a thing that happened. So we've already seen her do it once, making it even more obvious here in Wandavision. It was both a sound tactical plan, and a reference to a Movie.


Saw it (recently, in fact), never noticed/don't remember that line.  I applaud them for re-using the trick.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

NJChris said:


> I do think Agatha will be used again as she said Wanda will need her help. Sounds like Agatha knows something is going to happen (and probably wants more to protect herself, than any concern for Wanda).


In the comics, Agatha was Wanda's mentor at times.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

NJChris said:


> I'm not sure why people are bothered by the Evan Peters/Quicksilver thing. It looked to me like he was just a neighbor that Agatha used to mess with Wanda. Him being the same actor as the x-men movies was just a fun thing to see for me. I don't feel betrayed... not sure what betrayal that would even be.


I think it was a bit of a misfire. Either they should have known fans would get all worked up over it...or worse, they DID know and that's why they did it. Which makes them either stupid, or jerks.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

That scene of “Where’s Darcy?” Oh, she said that debriefings are for losers (or something like that). Seems like they were saying “Sorry, Kat Dennings had another job and couldn’t make it, or maybe we just didn’t want to pay her and had to change the script.”


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> That scene of "Where's Darcy?" Oh, she said that debriefings are for losers (or something like that). Seems like they were saying "Sorry, Kat Dennings had another job and couldn't make it, or maybe we just didn't want to pay her and had to change the script."


She was in the episode. She drove the truck into Hayward's Jeep and said she hopes he enjoys prison.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

I am not sure how she would be paid. I'm thinking it's a salary for the whole series, so it wouldn't really matter how many scenes she's in.

So I'm guessing it's a scheduling conflict.

-smak-


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

smak said:


> I am not sure how she would be paid. I'm thinking it's a salary for the whole series, so it wouldn't really matter how many scenes she's in.
> 
> So I'm guessing it's a scheduling conflict.
> 
> -smak-


As stated above your message, she was in the episode, but it was very brief. I would bet that they filmed more scenes with her and they just didn't make it into the edit.

But as you alluded to, someone of her caliber would definitely be under contract that paid based on the number of episodes she's in, so it wouldn't matter whether she was in the episode for 2 seconds, 20 minutes, or if she shot scenes that were cut. She'd still get paid.


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## secondclaw (Oct 3, 2004)

The whole series was a bit of a letdown for me. As someone who did not grow up with the old sitcoms, or read the comics, first 3 episodes looked like a bad Saturday Night Live skit, leaving rest of mostly 25-30 min episodes with virtually no time for character development, something that a TV show should have plenty of. Missed opportunity to have ANY character development for Darcy, Johnny, even Agatha and Hayward. Instead the characters were all flat and one dimensional. And Evan Peters thing ... Really ... It's really a shame where that went.

To me the only redeeming quality to the show was Elizabeth Olsen, who was truly excellent.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

I enjoyed the show very much. I liked seeing more of Vision and Wanda - I always felt Vision's run in the MCU was way too short. I assume we will see more of White Vision, so we got that origin story. 

Also enjoyed the TV show references and identifying the shows and era being imitated. I will enjoy rewatching the show to catch stuff I missed, and stuff that will just land different knowing what I know now. 

I thought the Quicksilver thing was more of a wink to the audience than a troll. We all know the “multiverse” is coming and that the X-Men are under the same roof as the rest(ok, most) of Marvel, finally. 

I would have liked to see and learn more about Monica's powers and origin, but I'm sure it's coming.

So what happened to Agatha when the hex dissolved? I she locked away in some pocket universe or somthing?


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

latrobe7 said:


> So what happened to Agatha when the hex dissolved? I she locked away in some pocket universe or somthing?


I got the impression that Agatha was remade into exactly the trite character we saw, and was left to live in the town. The more I think about it, I'm not sure how that would work. But I still think that's what happened.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

kdmorse said:


> I got the impression that Agatha was remade into exactly the trite character we saw, and was left to live in the town. *The more I think about it, I'm not sure how that would work*. But I still think that's what happened.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

smak said:


> I am not sure how she would be paid. I'm thinking it's a salary for the whole series, so it wouldn't really matter how many scenes she's in.
> 
> So I'm guessing it's a scheduling conflict.
> 
> -smak-


Kat Dennings was in the credits which means she got paid.

So how much wailing and gnashing of the teeth is going on all over the Internet right now?

I quite enjoyed the show but then again, I didn't go into this expecting (or even demanding) that there were going to be major revelations about anything other than Wanda and Vision.

No Reed Richards. 
No X-Men or Magneto.
No Doctor Strange.

(I actually had an argument with someone on how they shouldn't be making major MCU revelations in shows like this {see the latest Star Wars movies} and he was insisting that they were going to.)

Although if the residents of Westview could feel her pain, might that cause at least some to have some sympathy for her?

And what's going to happen with White Vision now?
(Does he assume the identity of Simon Williams?)


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

kdmorse said:


> I got the impression that Agatha was remade into exactly the trite character we saw, and was left to live in the town. The more I think about it, I'm not sure how that would work. But I still think that's what happened.


I wonder if the residue/effect of the runes remained in that space, even though the "walls" where the runes were cast no longer existed.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JYoung said:


> And what's going to happen with White Vision now?
> (Does he assume the identity of Simon Williams?)


They seem to have set up two possibilities for Vision as we know him to be revived. They said that the two Visions were basically the body and spirit of the original; White Vision is the body, and the spirit was derived from the part of the Mind Stone that supplies Wanda with her power. So in theory, she could put the spirit into the White Vision. Alternately, Red Vision unlocked White Vision's memories, which could cause him to become at least some version of the original.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> They seem to have set up two possibilities for Vision as we know him to be revived. They said that the two Visions were basically the body and spirit of the original; White Vision is the body, and the spirit was derived from the part of the Mind Stone that supplies Wanda with her power. So in theory, she could put the spirit into the White Vision. Alternately, Red Vision unlocked White Vision's memories, which could cause him to become at least some version of the original.


But probably not one with love for Wanda. Yet.

-smak-


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

smak said:


> But probably not one with love for Wanda. Yet.
> 
> -smak-


Agreed. He's just like the comic book version. He got his memories back but not his emotions.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I enjoyed the entire series. It ended pretty much the way that I expected. I wasn't aware of Agatha Harkness' relationship to Wanda in the comics since I'd been away from them for decades. About the only thing I can recall about her is that she was the nanny for Reed Richards and Sue Storm's kid in the Fantastic Four comics. I figured that Wanda would eventually have to face reality and return to the real world without Vision or her kids. I try not to examine things too closely and would rather just sit back and enjoy the show. It's just freaking entertainment, not a science lesson. I do like the little Easter eggs that people find, though. I don't usually remember the little things that occur in the other MCU movies so it makes me want to go back and revisit them.

FWIW, I was reading an article about the Marvel shows upcoming on Disney+ and they're each being limited to around 6 hours total. I'm sure it's probably been mentioned before so forgive me if I'm being redundant. It comes from working in the Redundant Department of Redundancy.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

mr.unnatural said:


> It comes from working in the Redundant Department of Redundancy


I thought you worked at the other one, the Department of Redundancy Department.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

eddyj said:


> I thought you worked at the other one, the Department of Redundancy Department.


Maybe he works at both..?

Although that would be...


----------



## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

NJChris said:


> I'm not sure why people are bothered by the Evan Peters/Quicksilver thing. It looked to me like he was just a neighbor that Agatha used to mess with Wanda. Him being the same actor as the x-men movies was just a fun thing to see for me. I don't feel betrayed... not sure what betrayal that would even be.


Yeah, I'd never even have recognized him outside of reading comments here. Fans making much ado about nothing... what else is new.



> The only thing I wanted was more of Darcy.
> 
> Anyway, I loved it.


:up:


----------



## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

wmcbrine said:


> Yeah, I'd never even have recognized him outside of reading comments here. Fans making much ado about nothing... what else is new.
> 
> :up:


A "$71.3 Billion Crossover" isn't much ado about nothing.

'WandaVision' cracked the MCU open with a $71.3 billion cameo


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

wmcbrine said:


> Yeah, I'd never even have recognized him outside of reading comments here. Fans making much ado about nothing... what else is new.


Except it's not nothing...they hired the guy who played Quicksilver in another universe to play Quicksilver here, with a multiverse movie coming up. Which should have been huge. And then said "Just kidding."

Which is really kind of a dick move.


----------



## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Which is really kind of a dick move.


That is a minority opinion, and squeaky wheel gets the grease syndrome.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I can't wait for "The Falcon and The Winter Soldier"

what other sort of "tease" can Marvel do? I eagerly await what will happen so the real fans can tell me


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

jsmeeker said:


> I can't wait for "The Falcon and The Winter Soldier"
> 
> what other sort of "tease" can Marvel do? I eagerly await what will happen so the real fans can tell me


There are two new "Legends" compilations, one on the Falcon and one on Bucky. Not really a tease, but it's something. I couldn't play them yesterday due to glitches in the app or the service, but I'll try again tonight. One displayed a blue screen error message and the other played sound only.


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> There are two new "Legends" compilations, one on the Falcon and one on Bucky. Not really a tease, but it's something. I couldn't play them yesterday due to glitches in the app or the service, but I'll try again tonight. One displayed a blue screen error message and the other played sound only.


Looks like those came out a week earlier than announced. There should be 2 more next week, Zemo & Sharon Carter.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> There are two new "Legends" compilations, one on the Falcon and one on Bucky. Not really a tease, but it's something. I couldn't play them yesterday due to glitches in the app or the service, but I'll try again tonight. One displayed a blue screen error message and the other played sound only.


Played them today and they are like the previous 2 where they just show movie clips.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> There are two new "Legends" compilations, one on the Falcon and one on Bucky. Not really a tease, but it's something. I couldn't play them yesterday due to glitches in the app or the service, but I'll try again tonight. One displayed a blue screen error message and the other played sound only.


Cool.. I assume those are just lie we saw for Wanda and Vision.. Clips from the MCU movies. I don't expect those to tease NEW stuff not already shown in MCU.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

realityboy said:


> Looks like those came out a week earlier than announced. There should be 2 more next week, Zemo & Sharon Carter.


ohh... FOUR ? Agent 13 has only had limited screen time in MCU. Me likey, though


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Except it's not nothing...they hired the guy who played Quicksilver in another universe to play Quicksilver here, with a multiverse movie coming up. Which should have been huge. And then said "Just kidding."
> 
> Which is really kind of a dick move.


I definitely agree with this. It'd be like them spending the entire series talking to a Reed Richards on the phone, only to have it revealed in the last episode that it's a random Reed Richards who works at the FBI field office in Boise, not Fantastic Four's Reed Richards. It's bait-and-switch with audience expectations, and really kind of a dick move.


----------



## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

IndyJones1023 said:


> A "$71.3 Billion Crossover" isn't much ado about nothing.
> 
> 'WandaVision' cracked the MCU open with a $71.3 billion cameo


That's _exactly_ what much ado about nothing looks like. A 98-year-old movie studio with thousands of properties buys an 87-year-old movie studio with thousands of other properties, and comic fans think it's all about merging the X-Men into the MCU.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I'm just glad I'm not a real serious fan of of Marvel


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

wmcbrine said:


> That's _exactly_ what much ado about nothing looks like. A 98-year-old movie studio with thousands of properties buys an 87-year-old movie studio with thousands of other properties, and comic fans think it's all about merging the X-Men into the MCU.


Well, when they cast the Fox actor in the Marvel show, WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO THINK?!?


----------



## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

morac said:


> She was in the episode. She drove the truck into Hayward's Jeep and said she hopes he enjoys prison.


I swear they could have just overdubbed that line from her waitress TV show.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

dwatt said:


> I swear they could have just overdubbed that line from her waitress TV show.


The two things I noticed when I rewatched and sat threw the credits today is that Darcy was the only one listed as having a body double and that Agatha's mother was named Eleanor Harkness.


----------



## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

NJChris said:


> The only thing I wanted was more of Darcy.
> 
> Anyway, I loved it.


I hope Marvel greenlights any potential series with Jimmy Woo and Darcy.

A 'WandaVision' Spin-Off Starring Jimmy Woo is Already Being Pitched to Marvel


----------



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

I’m a little confused. The show hints that the only reason Wanda survived exposure to the mind stone is because she is the Scarlet Witch. So then how did Pietro survive it?


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

morac said:


> Played them today and they are like the previous 2 where they just show movie clips.





jsmeeker said:


> Cool.. I assume those are just lie we saw for Wanda and Vision.. Clips from the MCU movies. I don't expect those to tease NEW stuff not already shown in MCU.


Yup, like I said compilations and not really a tease. But OK, now here's a tease. Have you seen this? I hadn't, and it was posted a month ago. Today it was at the top of the Disney app. First up: Amy Aquino, who plays the lieutenant in Bosch.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Yes.. I've seen that recent trailer.( a few weeks ago) It was the first time I was aware Agent 13 (Sharon Carter) was going to be in this series. It was a nice surpise to this non-real fan.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> Yes.. I've seen that recent trailer.( a few weeks ago) It was the first time I was aware Agent 13 (Sharon Carter) was going to be in this series. It was a nice surpise to this non-real fan.


You've come a long way smeeky

-smak-


----------



## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

Huh. I'm so glad that I don't read much social media. People really care that much about what folks like or don't like? Geez.


How a 'WandaVision' viral tweet explains the passion of Marvel fans - and haters



> In one scene, a character suggests to another, "But what is grief, if not love persevering?"
> 
> When she heard it, she muttered an expletive under her breath. As both a screenwriter and a casual fan, the line struck her as a standout. "Sometimes you hear a line, and you can tell it would be remembered," she said.
> 
> ...


----------



## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

I thought that line was pretty spectacular myself. 

“But what is grief, if not love persevering?”


----------



## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> They seem to have set up two possibilities for Vision as we know him to be revived. They said that the two Visions were basically the body and spirit of the original; White Vision is the body, and the spirit was derived from the part of the Mind Stone that supplies Wanda with her power. So in theory, she could put the spirit into the White Vision. Alternately, Red Vision unlocked White Vision's memories, which could cause him to become at least some version of the original.


I still don't understand what's powering White Vision. I thought Vision's density manipulation and energy blasts were powered by the Mind Stone?


----------



## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

The SWORD leader guy sent in a drone to monitor Wanda, then she forcefully ejected it out of the Hex. When the drone was retrieved, it was glowing with Scarlet Witch's red energy. The SWORD guy somehow siphoned that energy into White Vision to power him up. I'm not sure what the blue crystal is, but that's where the energy came from.


----------



## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

logic88 said:


> I still don't understand what's powering White Vision. I thought Vision's density manipulation and energy blasts were powered by the Mind Stone?


I believe it is just from the chaos magic that hit the SWORD drone. This is what is in the MCU wiki entry too.

Spectral Vision


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

When did they start calling him "Spectral Vision"? 

"Hex Vision" vs. "Spectral Vision". What the hex?


----------



## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I was a few weeks behind, caught up on episodes 7-9 last night. Loved it. I am not a comics guy, have seen a few of the MCU movies but none of those relevant to WV. Regarding the post-credits scene, I have almost no idea what that's about - some of you apparently do.

I do not expect to see any second season, and would be disappointed if there was. Let it lead into other shows. I certainly would not object to seeing more of Elizabeth Olsen. As for Kathryn Hahn - I did not know of her before (my wife did), but I agree she was great here.


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

stevel said:


> Regarding the post-credits scene, I have almost no idea what that's about - some of you apparently do.


The mid-credits scene ties together Spider-Man: Far From Home and the (in development) Captain Marvel 2.

The post credit scene likely relates to the forthcoming Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness.


----------



## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Review: WandaVision sticks the landing with a very Marvel-esque finale | Ars Technica

This has an explanation of the mid-credit scene, though I am still uncertain.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

If you haven't seen Spider-Man: Far From Home or Captain Marvel, I can understand why you don't recognize a Skrull and what it was all about.


----------



## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)




----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

stevel said:


> Review: WandaVision sticks the landing with a very Marvel-esque finale | Ars Technica
> 
> This has an explanation of the mid-credit scene, though I am still uncertain.


That article mentions there will be a behind the scenes making of video dropping on March 12. I'll probably check it out.


----------



## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

morac said:


> That article mentions there will be a behind the scenes making of video dropping on March 12. I'll probably check it out.


Well, duh! That's where the cameo is!


----------



## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> If you haven't seen Spider-Man: Far From Home or Captain Marvel, I can understand why you don't recognize a Skrull and what it was all about.


I did see Captain Marvel (twice), but the character didn't look like my memory of a Skrull. I will have to tee it up again to compare.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Kathryn Hahn Talks About Her Insidious, Perfidious Role on 'WandaVision'


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

stevel said:


> I did see Captain Marvel (twice), but the character didn't look like my memory of a Skrull. I will have to tee it up again to compare.


Skrulls are shapeshifters. (They can look how they want.)


----------



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

stevel said:


> I did see Captain Marvel (twice), but the character didn't look like my memory of a Skrull. I will have to tee it up again to compare.


If you do a google image search just right, it does all the hard work for you.


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

IndyJones1023 said:


> A "$71.3 Billion Crossover" isn't much ado about nothing.
> 
> 'WandaVision' cracked the MCU open with a $71.3 billion cameo


I never would have thought that article would contain a Mandalorian spoiler. I haven't watched season 2 yet. Bummer.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

You hadn't heard that Baby Yoda's real name was "Logan"?


----------



## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

gweempose said:


> I never would have thought that article would contain a Mandalorian spoiler. I haven't watched season 2 yet. Bummer.


Never really know where a spoiler might come from unfortunately.


----------



## Win Joy Jr (Oct 1, 2001)

Absolutely loved the final episode. Not going to quote posts from over the past few days, but...

"White Vision" is out there, no longer under the control of S.W.O.R.D. He may have memories from before he "died", but its all just data. Without his conscience they are just records. Maybe in the future, Wanda's powers along with the piece of the Mind Stone can restore Vision. So, Yeah, more work for the actor.

I will also now agree that Agatha was evil. Disappointed in that, yeah. She could have been a more nuanced character if they kept part of her comics backstory. And absolutely adore the actress. 

I saw a summary of a review with the producers / Kevin F. that the Disney+ shows will NOT be required watching to fully enjoy the future MCU projects. So, WandaVision is an origin story of her costume and gave some service to the comics fans when she deals with grief. 

The casting of Peitro / Quicksilver was a wink and a nod "See what we are doing here, we are messing with you". Not a jerk move, but acknowledging the audience and how they will deconstruct every little details in each project.

To me, this also boxes up Wanda's trauma arc as her story moves forward. 

Now I only have one thing to watch this Friday, then "Falcon and the Winter Soldier" starts a week after. Hope it is just as enjoyable, at least for me.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

'WandaVision' merch alert! Get your exclusive first look at new tees, Funko Pops, and more


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> 'WandaVision' merch alert! Get your exclusive first look at new tees, Funko Pops, and more


Cool!

There's also a much larger array of official t-shirts available at Amazon...

Amazon.com : WandaVision t-shirts


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

I still have hope that "Ralph Bohner" is a Nexus Being of some kind. Consolation prize: enjoying The Internet twisting itself inside out discussing ways to make this idea work.


----------



## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Opinion | 'WandaVision' punted on its most interesting idea about grief - The Washington Post



> And yet, the show feels the need to recast Wanda's ultimate decision to give up her imaginary family, as well as her hold over the town, as an act of heroic altruism. "They'll never know what you sacrificed for them," says Monica Rambeau (Teyonah Parris), a secret agent turned friend of Wanda, in the final episode.
> 
> Rambeau's line is a moral atrocity, an effort to recast Wanda as the hero of the show, the savior of all these little people. But it's not what she did for the people of Westview that matters. It's what she did to them. And what she did to them is horrifying, a form of mind-rape and torture that extended for weeks, maybe months.


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

That line aside, it seems (or at least I hope) that they are setting Wanda up to have what the folks in the wrestling biz would term a "heel turn" - go from being a "good guy" to being a "bad guy." The fact that she's seen at the end voraciously reading the Darkhold, which as far as I know is almost always seen as a book of pure evil in the Marvel-verse, would seem to point that direction. She may not have started out to torture the folks in Westview, but I think that it's leading toward her desire to get _her_ Vision back and make her imaginary kids real leading her to do anything within her power, ethics/morals notwithstanding.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

She may want to grab her kids from another part of the universe, and certain people might not like that.

I'm getting a major Fringe tv show flashback about the next few movies in the MCU

-smak-


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> I still have hope that "Ralph Bohner" is a Nexus Being of some kind. Consolation prize: enjoying The Internet twisting itself inside out discussing ways to make this idea work.


Did Agatha take over his entire personality, because it seems like a guy named Bohner for 35 years wouldn't be laughing at his own name. He'd probably be sick of it.

-smak-


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> 'WandaVision' merch alert! Get your exclusive first look at new tees, Funko Pops, and more


I am obsessed by these Wandavision pops. They are all done so well.

-smak-


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

smak said:


> Did Agatha take over his entire personality, because it seems like a guy named Bohner for 35 years wouldn't be laughing at his own name. He'd probably be sick of it.


I guess he - or his Agatha-controlled self, anyway - was just laid-back and good-humored enough to take yet another mispronunciation in stride: it's actually pronounced BAH-ner. (Also, former Sen. John Boehner = BAY-ner.)


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Win Joy Jr said:


> I saw a summary of a review with the producers / Kevin F. that the Disney+ shows will NOT be required watching to fully enjoy the future MCU projects.


I saw a similar (the same?) review, but that's the exact opposite of what Kevin F. said in a 2019 interview. He said you will need to watch the Disney+ to understand the MCU movies.

Kevin Feige Says Marvel Fans Will Need to Watch Disney+ Series to Understand Future MCU Movies


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

morac said:


> I saw a similar (the same?) review, but that's the exact opposite of what Kevin F. said in a 2019 interview. He said you will need to watch the Disney+ to understand the MCU movies.
> 
> Kevin Feige Says Marvel Fans Will Need to Watch Disney+ Series to Understand Future MCU Movies


There really isn't anything here that you need to watch for any future movie.

It'll be easy enough to explain what's happened, why Monica is going to space or about to, what has been going on with Wanda.

I mean, they explained Infinity stones multiple times, if you didn't catch it previously.

If Wanda gets in too deep with the Darkhold, Dr Strange will probably say "you've been getting in too deep with the Darkhold".

Won't be that hard.

-smak-


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

smak said:


> There really isn't anything here that you need to watch for any future movie.
> 
> It'll be easy enough to explain what's happened, why Monica is going to space or about to, what has been going on with Wanda.
> 
> ...


Well there's the fact that Monica now had powers and also that Wanda is now more powerful that Strange and possibly evil.

They could recap this going into the movies, but that doesn't seem to be Marvel's style. They expect you to have watched prior movies and now shows. Yes they mentioned the Infinity stones several times, but they didn't re-explain who Wanda was when she showed up in Captain America: Civil War or who all the different characters in Avengers: Infinity War were.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

morac said:


> Well there's the fact that Monica now had powers and also that Wanda is now more powerful that Strange and possibly evil.
> 
> They could recap this going into the movies, but that doesn't seem to be Marvel's style. They expect you to have watched prior movies and now shows. Yes they mentioned the Infinity stones several times, but they didn't re-explain who Wanda was when she showed up in Captain America: Civil War or who all the different characters in Avengers: Infinity War were.


Avengers movies are different. I think you are expected to have some knowledge of prior movies.

-smak-


----------



## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

stevel said:


> Opinion | 'WandaVision' punted on its most interesting idea about grief - The Washington Post
> 
> 
> 
> > Rambeau's line is a moral atrocity, an effort to recast Wanda as the hero of the show, the savior of all these little people. But it's not what she did for the people of Westview that matters. It's what she did to them. And what she did to them is horrifying, a form of mind-rape and torture that extended for weeks, maybe months.


Were we explicitly given a reference for the amount of time that elapsed in WandaVision? My understanding is this was about 3 weeks after the events in Endgame. (Were we explicitly told that, or did it come from a source outside the scope of the show?) My sense is that WandaVision happened over a few days, at most, not weeks or months like in the above quote from the article.

Wanda clearly did not understand what had happened until Agatha took her through her memory lane gauntlet. And even then, she didn't understand that her actions were causing harm to the townspeople. She thought they were having the same pleasant experience she was. Once she understood the full ramifications of her actions, and had the choice of freeing the people or preserving her little family, she only hesitated a few moments before freeing them.

I don't agree with that article's attempt to cast Wanda actions as evil. Did the author actually watch it? Evil requires intent.

I also don't agree with those implying Wanda is now evil because of the after credits scene. All we know so far is she was studying the Darkhold grimoire. What she does with what she learns remains to be seen.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

hapster85 said:


> I also don't agree with those implying Wanda is now evil because of the after credits scene. All we know so far is she was studying the Darkhold grimoire. What she does with what she learns remains to be seen.


Doesn't mean she's NOW evil, but anybody who touches the Darkhold is corrupted by it. And she's doing a hell (cough) of a lot more than touching it.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

hapster85 said:


> Were we explicitly given a reference for the amount of time that elapsed in WandaVision? My understanding is this was about 3 weeks after the events in Endgame. (Were we explicitly told that, or did it come from a source outside the scope of the show?) My sense is that WandaVision happened over a few days, at most, not weeks or months like in the above quote from the article.
> 
> Wanda clearly did not understand what had happened until Agatha took her through her memory lane gauntlet. And even then, she didn't understand that her actions were causing harm to the townspeople. She thought they were having the same pleasant experience she was. Once she understood the full ramifications of her actions, and had the choice of freeing the people or preserving her little family, she only hesitated a few moments before freeing them.
> 
> ...


I was going to post the same but you did it better.


----------



## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

Huh. That last question is interesting. Does that mean they have ideas for a 2nd season?

How the 'WandaVision' Creator Brought Her Vision (and Wanda's) to Life


----------



## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

WandaVision Finale Is Rotten Tomatoes' Worst Rated Episode of the Series


----------



## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

smak said:


> Did Agatha take over his entire personality, because it seems like a guy named Bohner for 35 years wouldn't be laughing at his own name. He'd probably be sick of it.
> 
> -smak-


Do we have any indication that it's his real name? Inside Wanda's reality everyone had alternate identities, then on top of those fake identities Agatha overlaid the fake Pietro on top of that guy.

They went out of their way this episode to show that people were her "meat puppets" and not their true selves.


----------



## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

hapster85 said:


> Were we explicitly given a reference for the amount of time that elapsed in WandaVision? My understanding is this was about 3 weeks after the events in Endgame. (Were we explicitly told that, or did it come from a source outside the scope of the show?) My sense is that WandaVision happened over a few days, at most, not weeks or months like in the above quote from the article.


I am guessing 3 to 5 days max.


----------



## vman (Feb 9, 2001)

Not to reopen the mutant/MCU issue again, but is Agatha a mutant (and a witch)? She seems to be able to absorb other witches’ powers (and life force), which doesn’t seem something the other witches could do - back in Salem they all seemed surprised by it.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

vman said:


> Not to reopen the mutant/MCU issue again, but is Agatha a mutant (and a witch)? She seems to be able to absorb other witches' powers (and life force), which doesn't seem something the other witches could do - back in Salem they all seemed surprised by it.


I think that was just her dark magic at work...


----------



## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Doesn't mean she's NOW evil, but anybody who touches the Darkhold is corrupted by it. And she's doing a hell (cough) of a lot more than touching it.


Yeah, I guess it's right there in the name. Will no doubt be a wild ride to see how things unfold, in the next Doctor Strange, I assume.


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

morac said:


> Well there's the fact that Monica now had powers and also that *Wanda is now more powerful than Strange* and possibly evil.


I'd argue that Wanda is now, without question, the most powerful of all the Avengers. She was already in the running, but this show just took her powers up to an 11.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

For the conspiracy theorists among us...

Is WandaVision ... Pentagon propaganda? | Akin Olla


----------



## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

cheesesteak said:


> For the conspiracy theorists among us...
> 
> Is WandaVision ... Pentagon propaganda? | Akin Olla


Thank goodness I have to register to read that article. Buzzzzz.

Was Wanda actually touching the Darkhold? I thought it was floating there.


----------



## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

martinp13 said:


> Thank goodness I have to register to read that article. Buzzzzz.
> 
> Was Wanda actually touching the Darkhold? I thought it was floating there.


She was studying it via astral projection. Possible she got it to the cabin from Westview without physically touching it. But where magic is concerned, it may be a distinction without a difference.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

hapster85 said:


> She was studying it via astral projection. Possible she got it to the cabin from Westview without physically touching it. But where magic is concerned, it may be a distinction without a difference.


And I'm pretty sure that she was actually READING the book, which of course would be far worse than merely touching it from a corruption perspective...


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

gweempose said:


> I'd argue that Wanda is now, without question, the most powerful of all the Avengers. She was already in the running, but this show just took her powers up to an 11.


Captain Marvel probably has her beat, but not by much.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

For one thing, I think Captain Marvel can elude Wanda by just flying up.

-smak-


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Only if Wanda can’t mind control Captain Marvel.


----------



## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

jsmeeker said:


> ohh... FOUR ? Agent 13 has only had limited screen time in MCU. Me likey, though


If you likey, watch THE RESIDENT on...Fox I think. She is a headliner. and quite fetching.


----------



## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> When did they start calling him "Spectral Vision"?
> 
> "Hex Vision" vs. "Spectral Vision". What the hex?


the hex is the giant red wall encircling westview. it was in the shape of a hexagon. it was a great big spell cast by a witch .. or a hex.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

mattyro7878 said:


> the hex is the giant red wall encircling westview. it was in the shape of a hexagon. it was a great big spell cast by a witch .. or a hex.


Not what I was asking, but thanks. Mostly I was just joking around.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

LoadStar said:


> Captain Marvel probably has her beat, but not by much.


Comics or MCU. Maybe MCU but comic book Wanda can change all reality.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

morac said:


> Only if Wanda can't mind control Captain Marvel.


Can she do that anywhere other than a foot away?

-smak-


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

smak said:


> Can she do that anywhere other than a foot away?
> 
> -smak-


Well, in the show her range seemed to be more like a mile or so...and growing.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Watched the "making of" special this morning. It's the first episode of "Assembled". Fun to watch and see how true they were to olde sitcom filming. If you watched the whole show, it's worth a view. If you haven't finished it yet, don't watch it... super-spoilerific. 

No mid/post-credits scene.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

As far as Scarlett Witch against Captain Marvel...how do we weigh power vs magical abilities? Dr Strange had Thanos figured out for a bit but eventually lost. Wanda fought off Thanos in a power vs power battle . She used no magic.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

mattyro7878 said:


> As far as Scarlett Witch against Captain Marvel...how do we weigh power vs magical abilities? Dr Strange had Thanos figured out for a bit but eventually lost. Wanda fought off Thanos in a power vs power battle . She used no magic.


Strange lost because Thanos had 4 infinity stones and Strange didn't use his. When Wanda fought Thanos he didn't have any stones.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

One week 'till The Falcon and the Winder Soldier.

Just created a thread for that: https://www.tivocommunity.com/c...


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

mattyro7878 said:


> As far as Scarlett Witch against Captain Marvel...how do we weigh power vs magical abilities? Dr Strange had Thanos figured out for a bit but eventually lost. Wanda fought off Thanos in a power vs power battle . She used no magic.


A part of those battles against Thanos that people have to remember, is that the first object was for him to not snap. So Captain Marvel was trying to get the gauntlet off his hand, not exactly trying to just plain defeat him. Because you can defeat him 99%, but that 1% is him snapping.

Which is what happened to Thor.

-smak-


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## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> One week 'till The Falcon and the Winder Soldier.
> 
> Just created a thread for that: https://www.tivocommunity.com/c...


It's Friday and it feels odd to not have a WandaVision episode to discuss so I'm looking forward to that new series.


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## GoPackGo (Dec 29, 2012)

Squirrel Girl will be the MCU’s most powerful when she is introduced.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

GoPackGo said:


> Squirrel Girl will be the MCU's most powerful when she is introduced.


Well, she's not the most powerful character at Marvel by a long shot.

She just happens to be able to defeat all the most powerful characters.


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

GoPackGo said:


> Squirrel Girl will be the MCU's most powerful when she is introduced.


Wow, I thought this was a joke until I looked it up. Also discovered they have regional Avenger teams. She is part of the Great Lakes Avengers.

Pretty cool, thanks for the fun!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Random User 7 said:


> Wow, I thought this was a joke until I looked it up. Also discovered they have regional Avenger teams. She is part of the Great Lakes Avengers.
> 
> Pretty cool, thanks for the fun!


Well, to be fair, it IS a joke...but it's a deadpan joke that's been going on for decades.

I mean really, how serious can they be about somebody with the powers of a squirrel taking on and defeating the likes of Thanos and Galactus?!?

(The Great Lakes Avengers are a joke, too...a parody of the various Justice League teams DC was coming up with at the time.)


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

And the West Coast Avengers were totally original and totally serious. It wasn’t just DC that was doing regional groups. Nor was it just the JL. Don’t ever forget the west coast Titans.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> And the West Coast Avengers were totally original and totally serious. It wasn't just DC that was doing regional groups. Nor was it just the JL. Don't ever forget the west coast Titans.


But...the West Coast Avengers _were _totally serious (it was Marvel's attempt to put out two Avengers books each month, and a lot of the time they even had stories running back and forth between the two).

You're right, however, it wasn't _just _a response to (and parody of) the Justice League books.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

The comics business is both incestuous and mimicking. Impossible to keep track of who copied who and when and how and why.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> (The Great Lakes Avengers are a joke, too...a parody of the various Justice League teams DC was coming up with at the time.)


Justice League Antarctica still gets no respect.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JYoung said:


> Justice League Antarctica still gets no respect.


Bwa ha ha!


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, to be fair, it IS a joke...but it's a deadpan joke that's been going on for decades.
> 
> I mean really, how serious can they be about somebody with the powers of a squirrel taking on and defeating the likes of Thanos and Galactus?!?
> 
> (The Great Lakes Avengers are a joke, too...a parody of the various Justice League teams DC was coming up with at the time.)


Yeah. That's just nuts.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

mr.unnatural said:


> Yeah. That's just nuts.


There's no "DIE!" button, so I guess I'll have to settle for "Like"...


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Wasn't sure where to put this...


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

mattyro7878 said:


> What about your average Joe who never heard of the Avengers happens to tune in?? I think he would be lost. Would he/she enjoy the show?


Nothing. Not really. Yes.

I've watched a couple of superhero movies but generally don't even know which "universe" they're in. I've seen Iron Man & Guardians of the Galaxy that I can recall. I had no idea who Wanda or Vision were going in.

The first couple of episodes were very confusing, but I don't think I was alone in that. I'd had it spoiled that Vision died and Wanda created this world out of her grief so that was a bit of a bummer, but my husband figured it out in ep 3 or 4 so not too big a deal.

I think it absolutely holds up as a standalone series.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

I really liked this series a lot. How can you not appreciate a series that uses the line "what is grief if not love persisting"....

Anyways, I also watched the "Assembled" behind the scenes episode for Wandavision and I love it even more now. The amount of work that went into the wire work, the recreating of even the lighting used on old sitcoms, etc....... They really did a great job from every angle.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

"what is grief if not love PERSERVERING?" I found this to be the best thing Ive watched on TV for quite a while. I am looking forward to LOKI and "What If?" I will watch it all and am watching Falcon and the WS but I cant see anything approaching the quality, mystery and fun of Wanda.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Creating WandaVision's visual effects, from old-school sitcom gags to Vision's CG face - The Verge



> According to Tara DeMarco, a visual effects supervisor on the show, the approach to WandaVision's special effects wasn't any different because it was destined for living rooms. "The visual effects for Marvel features and streaming [shows] are treated very similarly in terms of the expectation for the quality. And really, we're all in service of a story," she tells The Verge. "It's just that some of our stories are longer than others."


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## Fl_Gulfer (May 27, 2005)

So that was the end?


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Fl_Gulfer said:


> So that was the end?


Of WandaVision, yes. Marvel/Disney has other miniseries and movies that pick up the threads.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

See also Marvel couldn't wait any longer to kick off its next phase of movies and shows - The Verge


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

MTV Movie & TV Awards Nominations: 'WandaVision' Leads Nominations - Deadline

"Disney+'s _WandaVision_ leads the scripted nominations with five noms for categories including best show, best performance in a show and best villain"


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Thanks for the fun read all! I just binged the entire series over the past few days. Loved it. Thought it was really well done. I don't know anything about XMen so really did not understand the controversy that was being discussed, so I guess that whole thing went over my head. 

Overall a really fun series and I'm a lot more interested in Wanda and Vision now than when I first started watching the show. Going into it, I thought the characters were a little meh.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

DancnDude said:


> I don't know anything about XMen so really did not understand the controversy that was being discussed, so I guess that whole thing went over my head.


Given the way it didn't play out, not knowing anything about it is very much for the best.


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

Yeah, the weekly play by play made it seem like a lot more was going to happen. But it was still a fun ride!


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Kathryn Hahn just got added to Knives Out 2


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

MTV Movie & TV Awards 2021: WandaVision wins big
• Best show - WandaVision
• Best fight - Wanda vs Agatha (WandaVision)


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## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

If this has already been mentioned, sorry, I missed it.

How Benedict Cumberbatch's Dr. Strange Almost Appeared in 'WandaVision'


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Really deep dive interview into the entire series... long but interesting read...

The Oral History of 'WandaVision'


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

WandaVision Changed Its Post-Credits Scene, May Have Added Doctor Strange


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

It's clearly an editing mistake.

-smak-


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Random User 7 said:


> WandaVision Changed Its Post-Credits Scene, May Have Added Doctor Strange


Yah, but they probably didn't. The only way that looks like a man in a cloak coming down the hill is if you really want it to.

Why they reedited the after credits scene, and why they introduced a fixed position editing artifact that only appears to move because the scenery is panning underneath it, and how did noone notice before it went out - is a good question. But if that was an actual attempt to put Doctor Strange into it, it's a really crappy half-assed attempt that looks horrible, and especially looks horrible when you play it backwards and realize it doesn't follow the landscape.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Agreed with the others; it looks like a video artifact rather than anything intentional.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

There's a video somewhere that shows what probably happened. They were trying to fix some lighting issues in the cabin, and they forgot to stop that effect from the frames before that.

It'll probably be gone soon.

-smak-


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

WandaVision did pretty well with Emmy nominations. Some stiff competition in those categories.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> WandaVision did pretty well with Emmy nominations. Some stiff competition in those categories.


But considering the way the show was structured made it an acting showcase (and several of the actors certainly made the most of it!), I don't think it's the least bit surprising.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But considering the way the show was structured made it an acting showcase (and several of the actors certainly made the most of it!), I don't think it's the least bit surprising.


oh.. no.. Not at all..

My comment about competition was more about how hard it will be to win awards due to quality of other nominated show/actors


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## Random User 7 (Oct 20, 2014)

'WandaVision' Spinoff With Kathryn Hahn in the Works at Disney Plus - Variety



> Hahn would reprise the role of Agatha Harkness in the series, which is described by sources as a dark comedy, though exact plot details remain under wraps. "WandaVision" head writer Jac Schaeffer would serve as the writer and executive producer on the project. Should the spinoff go forward, it would be the first project Schaeffer has set up with Marvel since she signed an overall deal with them and 20th Television in May.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

I'm surprised it took this long.

-smak-


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

WandaVision was my favorite of the Marvel shows so far. I'd definitely watch more of Hahn as Agatha Harkness. She's so deliciously evil.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1462797421415698432


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