# Survivor Cagayan : "Straw That Broke The Camel's Back" : OAD 5-14-2014



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Tony misplayed that idol.

That was a Brains challenge if ever there was one, but Tony crushed three out of four puzzles. The slider puzzle must have been a new experience for him.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

I am SO confused.

Why would Tony vote Trish?

He could have given her the regular Idol. He then could have voted Woo. The vote would have ended up split one Kass, one Woo (Trish votes don't count). In the re-vote, he could have gotten rid of either one. 

He lost the only true ally he had - whom he could have definitely won against. 

Dumb.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Tony misplayed that idol.


I think the idea you are going for (and it occurred to me too) was that he should have tried to get Trish under control to vote both of them for Woo, then played his idol for Trish to save her, so that Woo goes home. He'd then have his two most desirable (for him to win) opponents with him at the final 3. Now he's stuck with either Woo or Spenser (or both).

However, his bigger concern is not even making it to the final 3. And that's where his idea came from to trick everyone into thinking that his special idol can still be played next week. Playing the idol for himself this week was to reinforce that idea. Then, even though he's incredibly vulnerable (assuming he does win immunity), he's hoping people won't even consider voting for him.


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## InterMurph (May 22, 2003)

Tony's decision not to give the standard immunity idol to Trish was very puzzling to me. Until I saw that he voted for Trish as well. But that is puzzling also.

Maybe he thought that he could vote her out without her realizing that he had done so, thus locking up her jury vote. But the vote was 4-1, so he didn't need to actually vote for her.

Maybe he thought that Trish is more likely to get jury votes than Kass (I agree) and Woo (I strongly disagree).

And Spencer is too much of a Survivor nerd to fall for Tony's notion that the idol can be used to get into the final three. No way he falls for that.

The final scenarios:

Tony, Kass, and Woo: Tony wins big.
Tony, Kass, and Spencer: Tony edges out Spencer.
Tony, Woo, and Spencer: Tony edges out Spencer.
Woo, Kass, and Spencer: Spencer wins big.
Woo's only hope was a final three with Kass and Trish, and that can't happen now. He all but admitted during tonight's show that he was dreaming of being the final three, and not trying to win the game any more. He's done.

Kass hasn't had any hope in a long time. Her logic: she really hates Tony, therefore everybody really hates Tony, therefore she can beat Tony. I don't think she gets any votes against Tony.

Spencer had better figure out a way to get rid of Tony next week; if he doesn't, I don't think he can win.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

That was the best tribal council ever. I was literally laughing out loud. And then, when Kass gave Trish the finger. Oh my. Awesome.

Way to go Spence for winning immunity again. Interesting how both Tasha and Spence - brains - kept winning the immunities. 

I don't think Kass has any hope of winning at all. Just seeing the jury's faces tonight sealed it.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

I don't know why Tony didn't just keep it for a souvenir if he was going to vote for Trish.


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

InterMurph said:


> Tony's decision not to give the standard immunity idol to Trish was very puzzling to me. Until I saw that he voted for Trish as well. But that is puzzling also.
> 
> Maybe he thought that he could vote her out without her realizing that he had done so, thus locking up her jury vote. But the vote was 4-1, so he didn't need to actually vote for her.
> 
> ...


my thoughts in red above


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

laria said:


> I don't know why Tony didn't just keep it for a souvenir if he was going to vote for Trish.


Because he's trying to give the illusion that he can use the special one next week but since he can't he'll still have a souvenir.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

I think by letting Trish go (his biggest ally) Tony may have just lost the game. If he doesn't win immunity next week, he's gone. If he does win immunity most likely Spence is gone, and Tony sits next to Kass and Woo in the finals, and probably wins. But if it's a "bitter jury" he may not.

But I just don't think Tony has much of a chance to win immunity. Has he won anything besides the mud challenge tonight?


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

bryhamm said:


> my thoughts in red above


Why do you think Spencer would win against Tony? In my mind Tony has the edge. He was just more of a "player" than Spencer was.

Spencer has won immunity challenges when he's needed to, though.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

Peter000 said:


> Why do you think Spencer would win against Tony? In my mind Tony has the edge. He was just more of a "player" than Spencer was.
> 
> Spencer has won immunity challenges when he's needed to, though.


I disagree they have both been players and have played completely different roles. Tony is the classic alpha male in the dominant alliance and has pretty much decided who goes when. Spencer is a survivor. He has been the underdog, has never been in the dominant position, has won challenges when he's needed to, used Tony's paranoia against him when he's needed to and has done whatever it takes to stay in the game. There have been past players that have won in both roles.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Peter000 said:


> Why do you think Spencer would win against Tony? In my mind Tony has the edge. He was just more of a "player" than Spencer was. Spencer has won immunity challenges when he's needed to, though.


I agree with bryhamm that Spencer wins if he gets to the finals. At that point, it's not so much about how well either of them played the game. It's more about who is on the jury. Here's the jury so far:

Sarah: Was in an alliance with Spencer
Morgan: Was in an alliance with Spencer
LJ: Backstabbed and blindsided by Tony
Jeremiah: Was in an alliance with Spencer
Jefra: Backstabbed and blindsided by Tony
Tasha: Was in an alliance with Spencer
Trish: Backstabbed and blindsided by Tony

Tony would need at least four votes to win. Let's assume Woo is the final jury member and he votes for Tony. Where are Tony's other three votes going to come from?


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> I agree with bryhamm that Spencer wins if he gets to the finals. At that point, it's not so much about how well either of them played the game. It's more about who is on the jury. Here's the jury so far:
> 
> Sarah: Was in an alliance with Spencer
> Morgan: Was in an alliance with Spencer
> ...


I agree except I think Trish & maybe Sarah still vote for Tony. Who knows what they don't show though.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I thought they only showed 3-1 votes so I'm a little surprised everyone here says Tony voted for Trish. I guess I'll have to watch again!

I think Tony's plan is absolutely brilliant and now I think he deserves the million dollars. If he can convince people that the special idol can be played at the next TC, he is in the final 3. Just telling the jury that one bit would be enough to sway enough of them to vote for him.


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

Anubys said:


> I thought they only showed 3-1 votes so I'm a little surprised everyone here says Tony voted for Trish. I guess I'll have to watch again!


Two ways you know:

1) They only showed one vote for Kass. If there had been a second vote, they would have gotten it to be 2-2 first, before revealing the 3rd vote for Trish. Thus it was really 4-1 Trish

2) They showed Tony's vote during the credits.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I didn't realize Tony had voted for Trish until the final moments of the show when they show all the votes and Trish saying her good byes /thoughts to the camera. I was surprised at this. Will she even know that Tony voted for her or just that Spence, Kass and Woo did?


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

betts4 said:


> I didn't realize Tony had voted for Trish until the final moments of the show when they show all the votes and Trish saying her good byes /thoughts to the camera. I was surprised at this. Will she even know that Tony voted for her or just that Spence, Kass and Woo did?


Yes, as I mentioned above, she would know since they only showed one vote for Kass (and she knew she was the one that wrote it).

The producers always stack the vote before Jeff reads it so it lasts as long as possible before revealing who is out.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

Plus as someone said, they always show all the votes as they are cast while the person is giving their final confessional after the previews. 

I don't really see how throwing away the idol tonight strengthened his case about the special one being able to be played next week. He could have said "I'll just keep this one as a souvenir" rather than "this one can stay on the island".


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## bikegeek (Dec 28, 2006)

So could Woo still be aligned with Tony? He keeps agreeing to go against Tony but always votes with him.


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## WO312 (Jan 24, 2003)

The only thing that makes sense to me about the way Tony voted is he knew they were voting Trish, so he voted with them to seem to agree while trying to maintain the illusion that he can still use the special idol next week. But as mentioned, that will never work. So really dumb move. I think his instinct earlier in the episode to get rid of Woo was correct.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I did love the mud challenge. What fun! And Tony did a great job of gathering it all over his body. I would have tried to put it on my shoulders and on my arms and then hold them so it wouldn't fall off so much. Not "carrying" it per se, but using the body.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

laria said:


> Plus as someone said, they always show all the votes as they are cast while the person is giving their final confessional after the previews.
> 
> I don't really see how throwing away the idol tonight strengthened his case about the special one being able to be played next week. He could have said "I'll just keep this one as a souvenir" rather than "this one can stay on the island".


He used the regular idol just in case they blindsided him. If they had, he would have had to use the special idol and would now be in a bad spot at the next TC (unless he won immunity, of course).

By using the regular idol under a false pretense, he ensured that he would keep the lie about "special idol which can be used at the next TC".


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Besides being really snarky with her comments and yes as Trish said that smirky grin on her face all season - does anyone think Kass did play a good/decent game. I mean, she got to the final Four. She did cause chaos in the tribe. She played Tony with all his paranoia and her lying about what went on in discussions. It may not have been "nice" but neither has all the stuff Tony has done. 

Now Woo and Spencer - I think if they could give beat Kass in the end but maybe not Tony. I mean, we have seen players like him before get votes because of how they pitched the end speech and how the jury said "well, we don't like him but he did play the game". 

Would love to see Spencer and Tony at the end.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Trish said that she's gotten along with everyone, but wasn't it her that caused the woman to quit early in the season?


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Dalton's recap http://tvrecaps.ew.com/recap/survivor-cagayan-episode-12-recap/


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

After watching Ponderosa this week...



Spoiler



I don't think Tony has a chance to win against this jury


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

JFriday said:


> After watching Ponderosa this week...
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



I agree.


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## Honora (Oct 16, 2006)

Anubys said:


> If he can convince people that the special idol can be played at the next TC, he is in the final 3. Just telling the jury that one bit would be enough to sway enough of them to vote for him.


The only trouble with that is Tony already told Woo that was his plan.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

JFriday said:


> After watching Ponderosa this week...
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



That is good news but we have been led to believe that before...


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I give Tony props...but I'd be very disappointed if the rules were not fully explained to the contestants regarding the super idol. It is not fair to introduce something new to the game without a full explination of it.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I was surprised Kass didn't call out Tony for being such a hypocrite. It's OK for Tony to go have a secret meeting with Kass and divulge what Woo had told him, but it's not OK for Kass to have a secret meeting with Woo and divulge what Tony had told her?


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

Anubys said:


> He used the regular idol just in case they blindsided him.


Ah... yeah ok that makes sense now.


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

pmyers said:


> I give Tony props...but I'd be very disappointed if the rules were not fully explained to the contestants regarding the super idol. It is not fair to introduce something new to the game without a full explination of it.


sounds like they are not explained:



> *EW: Traditionally, the final 5 is the last time one can use a hidden immunity idol, although you made no such announcement to that effect. Does that mean Tony is indeed bluffing by making people think he can use his special idol at the final 4?*
> 
> PROBST: Hmm, did I miss it? I thought Tony was really clear in saying that its only good until final 5 and that hes bluffing them telling them its good until a final 4. [ED NOTE: He did, but Jeff never confirmed at Tribal Council.] Either way, yes, the idol is only good until the final 5 and after that it has no value. So Tony is indeed bluffing. Its a brilliant move that none of us anticipated. He realized that because it was new and had different powers that he could create any story he wanted. This is why we continue to experiment with different ideas. You put in something new and you see what it births. While the power of this special idol was not new, we did think the placement of it as a one-off at the merge might yield some interesting results. There isnt a science to Survivor, we just do our best to think through ideas and the ones that feel solid we give them a shot.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

pmyers said:


> I give Tony props...but I'd be very disappointed if the rules were not fully explained to the contestants regarding the super idol. It is not fair to introduce something new to the game without a full explination of it.


well, according to Jeff Probst:



> yes, the idol is only good until the final 5 and after that it has no value. So Tony is indeed bluffing. It's a brilliant move that none of us anticipated. He realized that because it was "new" and had "different powers" that he could create any story he wanted.


Edit: Not a smeek! I was just a few seconds late!


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

That's really lame, IMHO.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

pmyers said:


> That's really lame, IMHO.


I know I've been critical of the show this season and I believe they cheated to keep Tony in the game.

BUT

They could very well have clearly communicated this rule to everyone before the start of the show (and I'm willing to bet that they did). But if the contestants forget or fall for Tony's lie, why is that the producers' fault?


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## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

So I'm confused. Did they or did they not explain the rules regarding the idols to the players at some point? That is really lame if something exists that the rules haven't been explained for.

As much as I dislike Kass for her flip to Tony's side at the merge, I thought she did what needed to be done during this episode with getting things out in the open between Woo and Tony. 

We also got to see the side of Trish this week that had been absent since Lindsey quit the game.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I think it's actually pretty simple. They explained the rules to everyone. I assume there are a ton of rules but you have to figure they all paid attention to the ones about idols. The rule is that they are good until the final 5.

Done.

Now, there is an idol with special powers. Only Tony knows what the special power is. So he makes up a story that part of the power is that it can be used at the final 4, not 5.

They can call his bluff or they can fall for it. At this point, it's not the producers' fault if they're stupid.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

betts4 said:


> Besides being really snarky with her comments and yes as Trish said that smirky grin on her face all season - does anyone think Kass did play a good/decent game. I mean, she got to the final Four. She did cause chaos in the tribe. She played Tony with all his paranoia and her lying about what went on in discussions. It may not have been "nice" but neither has all the stuff Tony has done.


When she did this last batch of chaos, I thought it might help Spencer, but it would get her voted out. I thought the same thing weeks ago when she flipped. And yet here she is. She's not riding coat tails, so you have to give her credit. She never plays it safe, but she survives. That said, she's really annoying.



Anubys said:


> Now, there is an idol with special powers. Only Tony knows what the special power is. So he makes up a story that part of the power is that it can be used at the final 4, not 5.
> 
> They can call his bluff or they can fall for it. At this point, it's not the producers' fault if they're stupid.


When Tony found the idol it had the rules for playing it written there, right? It said that it could be played after the votes were read and presumably only good through week 5. Before I would believe that it could be played longer, I would want to see those instructions. If he doesn't have them, I'm not buying it.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

stellie93 said:


> When Tony found the idol it had the rules for playing it written there, right? It said that it could be played after the votes were read and presumably only good through week 5. Before I would believe that it could be played longer, I would want to see those instructions. If he doesn't have them, I'm not buying it.


My counter to that is "don't buy it. All you have to lose is your shot at the final 3". Bluffing is an art and paranoia will make people swallow anything


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Anubys said:


> I think it's actually pretty simple. They explained the rules to everyone. ...
> Done.
> 
> Now, there is an idol with special powers. Only Tony knows what the special power is...


This contradicts. They either explained the rules about the new idol or they didn't. We have ZERO reason to think that they did which leads to Tony being able to say whatever he wants about the idol.

I don't blame Tony, and I think its brilliant move.....but I'd be pissed as a player to not know the real "rules".


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

If all 3 vote Tony and he plays the idol, then whoever he votes for leaves, which is Spencer if he's there. If no one votes Tony, then you are all voting Spencer, so same result. Might as well take the chance. Or Woo if Spencer has immunity. Or I could be confused.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

If Kass makes it to the final 3, and I think she almost certainly will, I hope she has some great movie lawyer closing argument thing prepared. I don't think she can win even with that, but I'd love to see her give it a credible try. Seems to me the case can be made if she can put the words together.

That was a terrific Tribal Council. One of the best ever.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

pmyers said:


> This contradicts. They either explained the rules about the new idol or they didn't. We have ZERO reason to think that they did which leads to Tony being able to say whatever he wants about the idol.
> 
> I don't blame Tony, and I think its brilliant move.....but I'd be pissed as a player to not know the real "rules".


They never explained what the "special powers" were in public, it was always suggested that if you found the idol you would know its powers from receiving it.


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## Jayjoans (Jan 23, 2003)

I was surprised at Kass's actions after the vote. As someone that supposedly is trained to argue in front of juries, you would have thought she'd be better in front of a jury that may judge her.

To flip off Trish on the way out in front of that jury was a tactical blunder. More people dislike Kass on that jury than dislike Trish, and she just reinforced to them that Kass is a witch.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Kass seems to act petulantly , then attempt to defend her actions rationally. The best thing that can be said about her game is she is not a follower. Like Spencer, she has been waiting impotently for Tony to fall apart. But, unlike Spencer, she has never been a major target. She will make it to the end, but she won't bring herself there.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

If Kass does make it to the end, it won't be because of any great game play or anything like that - it will be because she's p'd off so many people and rubbed people so wrong that you _want_ to bring her to the end with you.


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## hfcsyrup (Dec 12, 2012)

is probst saying it is a final 2??


> EW: We'll find out what the jury thinks next week, but if this game ends right now - which we know it does not and there is plenty left to change your thoughts, but if it did - who gets Jeff Probst's vote for the million dollars and why?
> PROBST: Ah, that is an extremely tough question. I honestly think it could go to any of the four of them depending on who they sit next to at the final. Tony has played an incredibly strong game - from the get go. He has hustled and maneuvered on a level with some of the best. He is a great read of people. Spencer has earned so much respect because he has never given up even though he's the Charlie Brown of this season. He continues to fight even when everything says, "You're done." Kass, evil as many may see her, has played a pretty shrewd game and I think could make a very strong argument that she made some huge moves and deserves the dough. Woo would have to finish strong and then choose wisely. *If he puts himself against the right person*, I think Woo could charm his way to the money because he really hasn't made any enemies. How long has it been that we've had four potential winners? It's a great way to finish what has been a fantastic season.


and where does spencer get all of his hair gel?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

hfcsyrup said:


> is probst saying it is a final 2??





Spoiler



That's what the rumor sites have been saying about this season.



If so, that would make it pretty tough for Spencer to get there, as he'd have to make it through two more tribal councils before the final.


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## Hcour (Dec 24, 2007)

Two interesting instances where true nature was revealed: First, Tony wolfing down the pizza. Not only does the manner of it say a lot about him, but the circumstances. Instead of enjoying and sharing this moment with his one real friend in the game, Trish, he basically ignored her and turned a potentially nice time into something gross and disgusting for her. And, of course, as usual, the moment was all about Tony Tony Tony.

Second, Kas giving Trish the finger behind her back as she left tribal. Bad sportsmanship, petty, nasty, cowardly. And, because it was right there for all the jury to see, dumb.


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## danielhart (Apr 27, 2004)

They always do two tribal votes in the double episode finale. Since there are 4 now imo that means a final two. When it's a final three they go into the finale with 5 iirc.

Farted into a skillet using Tapatalk


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

hfcsyrup said:


> and where does spencer get all of his hair gel?


I'm too lazy to go find one but let's pretend I posted an image from There's Something About Mary.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

A final two will just be three guys fighting over the opportunity to beat Kass in the end. We will certainly get a flashback of Spencer telling Kass she has no shot to win after her betrayal.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

laria said:


> I'm too lazy to go find one but let's pretend I posted an image from There's Something About Mary.


:up:


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

I guess if they don't fully explain how the new idol works in advance they might not tell them in advance if it's a final 2 or a final 3. I've always preferred 2, it seems as if the third person rarely gets a vote anyway.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> If all 3 vote Tony and he plays the idol, then whoever he votes for leaves, which is Spencer if he's there. If no one votes Tony, then you are all voting Spencer, so same result. Might as well take the chance. Or Woo if Spencer has immunity. Or I could be confused.


He can't play the idol. He can TELL them he can play the idol but he can't. If they vote for him he's out at next TC.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

pmyers said:


> This contradicts. They either explained the rules about the new idol or they didn't. We have ZERO reason to think that they did which leads to Tony being able to say whatever he wants about the idol.
> 
> I don't blame Tony, and I think its brilliant move.....but I'd be pissed as a player to not know the real "rules".


It does not, though. The producers told them the rules. Tony is lying to the other players and saying the rules changed. If the players fall for the lie, it's their own stupid fault.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

VegasVic said:


> I guess if they don't fully explain how the new idol works in advance they might not tell them in advance if it's a final 2 or a final 3. I've always preferred 2, it seems as if the third person rarely gets a vote anyway.


That's entirely the point. When it's final 2, the eventual winner usually takes the person who would have been 3rd place in a final 3 scenario and thus it's a landslide victory. With Final 3, there are usually 2 decent candidates.


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## Boston Fan (Feb 8, 2006)

Did anyone else catch that the finale is next Wednesday (5/21), rather than the usual Sunday night slot? Any idea why?

ETA: Found the details at the end of last episode's thread.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

VegasVic said:


> He can't play the idol. He can TELL them he can play the idol but he can't. If they vote for him he's out at next TC.


I was giving their logic considering that they aren't sure if he can play it or not. They might as well take the chance that he's lying and vote him out, because the alternative is to vote out whoever he wants them to, which is what would happen if he could play the idol. I'm not explaining this well.....


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## Honora (Oct 16, 2006)

Boston Fan said:


> Did anyone else catch that the finale is next Wednesday (5/21), rather than the usual Sunday night slot? Any idea why?
> 
> ETA: Found the details at the end of last episode's thread.


One reason could be that the Amazing Race finale is this Sunday.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

stellie93 said:


> I was giving their logic considering that they aren't sure if he can play it or not. They might as well take the chance that he's lying and vote him out, because the alternative is to vote out whoever he wants them to, which is what would happen if he could play the idol. I'm not explaining this well.....


I think you explained it just fine. They can vote for him and have their votes nullified and let Tony's single vote decide who goes home, or they can vote for the same person Tony is voting for. They may not believe Tony can use the Special Idol to get into the final three, but they also may not be willing to risk calling his bluff. Of course, this is only an issue if Spencer wins the immunity challenge next time. If he does, then the target will turn to Woo and Tony, and that's when we'll see how well Tony can bluff. But if Spencer doesn't win the IC, they'll all just vote for him, since they'll realize that he would be the hands-down winner if he made it into the finals.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Jeff Probst is doing a Reddit Ask Me Anything right now:


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/25yojp

Some interesting info. Here are some highlights:



> *Zero_Heart: *I like this season but to say the editing is balanced? There were a lot of times where it seemed like only Tony and Spencer mattered.
> 
> *JeffProbstHere:* Okay let's address this -- we put people on Survivor for a few reasons - one of them is their ability to tell a story. The reason people like Tony and Spencer or Boston Rob or Parvati or Phillip or Coach end up on the show more than others is typically because their "interviews" are more interesting or do a better job at telling the story and with some "flavor!" We aren't just putting Tony on because we like Tony better -- that's really it. It's not an editing bias. Some people pop better than others. We'd love to have all 20 people be fantastic - but it doesn't always happen.





> *UnderwaterDialect:* What do you miss most about the early seasons?
> 
> *JeffProbstHere:* There was an "amateurish" feeling to our early seasons, especially season one -- where it really was cinema verite - we had cameras in the shots, we didn't always have great audio - but it was really compelling because it was so raw. Our show is now much more polished, which is ultimately a much better way to tell the story. But there is something very innocent about season one that will never be there again. Great question.





> *b00n96:* What happened at the Caramoan reunion? In the first time ever, pre-merge wasn't on stage. In addition to that, half the jury was not asked a question. It's understood that the reunion is under time restraints but a lot could have been cut out to make time for the jury.
> 
> *JeffProbstHere:* Caramoan Reunion - couple reasons we had the non-jury off the stage. The biggest reason was we were trying something new. I hated how much it hurt the feelings of the non jury. I am not a cold or uncaring person. I knew they felt slighted. We made a mistake in not telling them ahead of time and I take responsibility for that. The reason the idea came up in the first place is we knew Brandon would not be at the show and we didn't want it to be a big deal. Turns out it became a bigger deal as a result of our decision.
> As for asking questions to every single person during the reunion show. I don't believe the average fan wants that - I ask people constantly and in fact one of the most common answers is - "please don't waste questions on people who were out early." It's a harsh truth but there are some stories that are more interesting than others.
> As a human I feel badly that I don't have time to do 5 minutes with everybody - but as a producer I have a responsibility to deliver what I thin is the best show content.





> *markclassenx:* When the people get to Ponderosa, are they told who voted them out?
> 
> *JeffProbstHere:* We do not tell the contestants anything - ever. Someone who was voted out before them might tell them things that happened earlier in the season but nobody from production ever shares anything. That would be a major breach of trust. The other interesting thing about Ponderosa is people who have been voted out often have grudges and so you cannot trust what they tell you because it could be a lie or it could be rumor or speculation. This game is very tricky - you have to vote people out who will then get together and gossip about you - and you have to do it in a way that will still want them to give YOU the money. No different than politics at an office.





> *DMod:* What are your thoughts on the players use of social media, like twitter, while the show is airing? It can sometimes be pretty telling how a season will go based off of who is following who and who is fighting with each other on twitter.
> 
> *JeffProbstHere: * Personally I don't like it. If it was my decision I would not let them use social media. I agree with you it is too risky. This is a CBS decision and I don't have any say in it. Generally speaking I don't think it gives us one more viewer and so the upside is not worth the potential downside.





> *thecrashtd:* Hey Jeff! So what happens at the end, in the event of a tie? With a final 3, and 9 jury members, I feel like it's bound to happen. Would there be a re-vote, or would we simply get our first ever tied winners?
> 
> *JeffProbstHere:* Ah I would love to answer that but I won't! Maybe one day it will happen. But no - there will never be a "shared winner" ---





> *rtretick:* Hey jeff Huge fan of survivor Quick Question..how long does it take you to come up with your words of wisdom after Tribal?
> 
> *JeffProbstHere:* Good question -- here's what happens. I go back and get the votes and put them in the most dramatic order and then I have a few moments to think about what to say. Usually it's centered around what happened at tribal- but sometimes we're at a point in the show where it seems to make sense to comment on the "bigger picture" -- so usually it's 3-5 minutes. It's funny that it's now a staple because it started off as just a one time thing and then I did it again and then it started feeling like part of the fabric of the show. That's how 90% of the things I say came to be - I just said it one day and it stuck -- like "got nothin for ya" --





> *TraverseTown:* Has the jury ever made a mistake?
> 
> *JeffProbstHere:* From their point of view - never. They are the jury. It's their game. I only take issue because so many times they let their own personal bitterness get in the way of a rational decision - who played the best game? But I do realize that's how life goes. You piss someone off and then the boss asks them "What do you think of Probst for that promotion?" And they say "he's a dick" and you're out. So .... I guess I go back to my first answer. From their point of view - no.





> *NorthZeroEast:* You often point out when people are having a tough time in challenges. Does anyone ever tell you to f*** off?
> 
> *JeffProbstHere:* I don't really do it with the intention of being annoying - even though I know it's frustrating for them - I think it's just become an added layer to the game and part of my "play by play" which I also know drives people nuts! If someone told me to f*** off, then I'd know that I was fully in their head. I do sometimes rehearse a challenge and John Kirhoffer (our challenge supervising producer) will play "me" and he does the same thing and man is it hard to solve a puzzle with someone telling you you suck!





> *MaverickVox:* I know how Survivor is always thinking of big twists to change up the game, some work, some don't. However, I think the biggest possible twist now would be to not have a twist. Has there been any thought given to throwing new players into a "Classic Survivor" season, with no Hidden Idols and only a Tribe Swap in the mix?
> 
> *JeffProbstHere:* This gets pitched a lot - but my hunch is that it would be like an episode of the Sopranos where nobody gets whacked. Just not that satisfying. Sounds good on paper but idols and switches turn the story and that tends to lead to great moments.





> *DabuSurvivor:*Have you thought about removing the Hidden Immunity Idol as a twist, as they are rarely played effectively and it would free up time for other strategies, rewards, or character development? Trying another Idol-less season, if only once or twice, could be a worthwhile experiment and it would give you guys more freedom about what you could show, since you wouldn't be obligated to devote several minutes to explain vote-splitting, show people finding Idols, etc.
> 
> *JeffProbstHere:* I kind of answered this earlier - but I disagree that they aren't used effectively. It's often a matter of opinion and often based on limited information. I do think they change the game up a lot and often just the threat is enough to move the game one way or another. Look, I could be wrong but it's a big risk to take away an element that has been responsible for dozens of great memorable Survivor moments. I think a better direction to head is "how else could idols be used....." Hmmm...





> *survivormaryland:* Jeff--at what point over the seasons did you start to feel comfortable calling out the contestants during challenges? Early on you seemed like you loved watching them and didn't want to be mean to them at all.
> 
> As a survivor host myself (I run a college version), I find that calling out contestants is one of the hardest things to do, but I'm working on taking up tips from you. Love the show and can't wait to meet you in casting someday .
> 
> ...





> *jeric13xd:* Hey Jeff, big fan of you and of course Survivor.
> 
> My questions:
> 1) Who do you think played the best strategical game on Survivor ever?
> ...


And then I'm going to spoilerize these last two because they might possibly spoil something for the finale this week:



Spoiler






> *themindreader:* Huge Suvivor fan, had these questions planned for over a week now
> Current season questions!
> 
> 1. Does Spencer still 0% chance to win? I know you said that preseason, where his interviews even annoyed me, but from where he is now if he can make it to the end, he wins.
> ...





> *jragyn:* Budgetary concerns are usually a sign of impending doom for any show. Please tell me budget wasn't a factor in not having a loved ones visit this season. (I'm already assuming it's timing, not budget, that isn't giving this season it's normal Sunday finale/reunion.)
> 
> *JeffProbstHere:* Ah so glad you asked this.... do you know what happens when you assume -- remember that one? You make an ass... well my friend and I mean that lovingly--- the season is not yet over is it? Ah thee of so little faith!






And finally:



> *JeffProbstHere:* Hey guys! I'm so sorry I have to end this. I truly enjoyed it. I feel so lucky to have such a unique relationship with the fans of our show. I liked your questions, I appreciate that they were real and you wanted certain things answered. I hope you are satisfied with my responses. We can do it again sometime. I hope you enjoy the finale this Wednesday. I'm gonna start the show live and pop in a few times during the finale (I can already hear some of you *****ing) but the idea is to make it a big more of an event and share a couple of tidbits and insight with you to make it even more fun! Either way I'll be there and if you're at the live show say hey!! Later!


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Let us know if he says anything good.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

pmyers said:


> Let us know if he says anything good.


I edited my post to include what I thought were the best exchanges.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I edited my post to include what I thought were the best exchanges.


Thank you! :up:


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

awesome! thanks


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I just went back and refreshed the AMA and there were a few more exchanges that I found interesting, so I've edited my post above to add in a few more things. Enjoy!


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Can't believe how good Survivor still is after all these years. I'm loving watching Tony implode. For a while there I thought he may have a clear path to the win, but now I'm not so sure. He flat out flipped on his Alliance twice, and that is not generally easily forgiven by the Jury. We'll see, but I think he played a little too hard on the short game and didn't think enough about his Social game. Either way, it's been a fun ride with him. :up:


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## TampaThunder (Apr 8, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I edited my post to include what I thought were the best exchanges.


Thanks a lot for this.

Now I know a lot of people think Jeff Probst is too involved in the game but personally I love it and don't think Survivor would be near as good with anybody else hosting. His online give and take during the season adds a great dimension to understanding where CBS is coming from with some of their decisions. That's something we don't get in any other game and I appreciate it.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

I don't necessarily think Jeff is overly involved, but he does have a quite an influence on the Jury's decisions based on what I've seen. But in the end, he's just calling it like he sees it and sometime the players need a little reality check to keep the game on track. Whatever Survivor is doing, they should just keep right on doing it. It's the ONLY reality show that I still enjoy as much as I did in season one. In fact, more. I sure can't say that about American Idol...


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## LifeIsABeach (Feb 28, 2001)

I wondered about this one for years. Glad to finally have an answer (sort-of). And now I want even more for a season to end in a tie!


thecrashtd: Hey Jeff! So what happens at the end, in the event of a tie? With a final 3, and 9 jury members, I feel like it's bound to happen. Would there be a re-vote, or would we simply get our first ever tied winners?

JeffProbstHere: Ah I would love to answer that but I won't! Maybe one day it will happen. But no - there will never be a "shared winner" ---


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

LifeIsABeach said:


> I wondered about this one for years. Glad to finally have an answer (sort-of). And now I want even more for a season to end in a tie!


There already is a tiebreaker, isn't there? It's been a while since I've seen a non-finale episode, but the last time I looked, if there is a tie after a revote, whoever had the most votes against them from earlier votes is eliminated.


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## Marc (Jun 26, 1999)

We've not seen any sort of tiebreaker in the final vote (the one where the jury votes for the winner). Since they don't reveal the votes until they're live, having a revote potentially months after the original voting happened would be kind of odd.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

When was the last time the final vote was even close?


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Marc said:


> We've not seen any sort of tiebreaker in the final vote (the one where the jury votes for the winner). Since they don't reveal the votes until they're live, having a revote potentially months after the original voting happened would be kind of odd.


The might not reveal them, but I'm sure that Probst looks at them and can react accordingly.


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## ducker (Feb 21, 2006)

thanks for posting that. I'm not a big reddit reader and didn't feel like digging through it


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## ibergu (May 9, 2004)

bareyb said:


> I don't necessarily think Jeff is overly involved, but he does have a quite an influence on the Jury's decisions based on what I've seen. But in the end, he's just calling it like he sees it and sometime the players need a little reality check to keep the game on track. *Whatever Survivor is doing, they should just keep right on doing it. It's the ONLY reality show that I still enjoy as much as I did in season one.* In fact, more. I sure can't say that about American Idol...


+1. I still watch it live (well at least 10-15 mins after it started to skip commercials) and look forward to it every week.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

That Don Guy said:


> There already is a tiebreaker, isn't there? It's been a while since I've seen a non-finale episode, but the last time I looked, if there is a tie after a revote, whoever had the most votes against them from earlier votes is eliminated.


That was the tie-breaker methodology in the very early seasons. But I think Season 4 introduced the drawing rocks, and since then we've heard the players talk about the fear of having to draw rocks if there was a tie, but we've never heard anything about total number of votes against since those early seasons.

We've also had a couple instances where there was a tie that was solved by a fire-building challenge. I can't remember what the circumstances of those were that made them different from the situation where the players would draw rocks, though.



ducker said:


> thanks for posting that. I'm not a big reddit reader and didn't feel like digging through it


You're welcome. It was the first time I've ever been to reddit. I just saw a link in my Twitter feed, clicked on it, and read the responses by Jeff.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

To me the fire building is way more fair than rocks. At least only the 2 with votes are in danger. It really annoys me that someone who wasn't voted for by anyone could go home by drawing rocks. 

If there was any tie-breaker problem they would have to do it right away. You couldn't have a revote after everyone is home and has watched the show. 

I wish they would expand the show by a half hour so they can take their time with the reunion show. It always seems so rushed. Although I agree that I don't care about people who left early.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

http://survivor.wikia.com/wiki/Tiebreaker



> At the final four, and when only two contestants remain on the losing tribe, a fire-making challenge is used.


Also:



> In an interview with Mark Burnett in Survivor Oz, it was revealed that a revote would commence if the Jury votes for the winner are tied. This has never occurred as of the current season.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

stellie93 said:


> To me the fire building is way more fair than rocks. At least only the 2 with votes are in danger. It really annoys me that someone who wasn't voted for by anyone could go home by drawing rocks. ...


IIRC there was even an instance where the person who had the immunity necklace could have gone home due to the rocks.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

pmyers said:


> IIRC there was even an instance where the person who had the immunity necklace could have gone home due to the rocks.


I don't think so. In the drawing-rocks era, I think it's always been that if there's a tie, they do a re-vote, and those players who received enough votes to be tied do not vote. If it's still tied after the re-vote, then they go to rocks, and the people who were on the verge of being voted out are now safe, along with whoever has an immunity idol, and everyone else draws rocks.

I'm not clear on what happens if a Hidden Immunity Idol has been played prior to the voting. Presumably that person would be exempt from picking rocks as well.

And even more unclear is this Special Idol. What would happen if the person who had the Special Idol drew the purple rock? Could they then play the Special Idol and save themselves, forcing another drawing of rocks with them exempt?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I don't think so. In the drawing-rocks era, I think it's always been that if there's a tie, they do a re-vote, and those players who received enough votes to be tied do not vote. If it's still tied after the re-vote, then they go to rocks, and the people who were on the verge of being voted out are now safe, along with whoever has an immunity idol, and everyone else draws rocks.
> 
> I'm not clear on what happens if a Hidden Immunity Idol has been played prior to the voting. Presumably that person would be exempt from picking rocks as well.
> 
> And even more unclear is this Special Idol. What would happen if the person who had the Special Idol drew the purple rock? Could they then play the Special Idol and save themselves, forcing another drawing of rocks with them exempt?


I don't like rocks to decide who goes home. I liked the original way. For one, it meant that not only was it important not to go home, but to try and not get any votes either, because that could cost you. I just wonder if they felt people were being too "nice" so they wouldn't get any votes. The rocks thing is too arbitrary to me.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> I don't like rocks to decide who goes home. I liked the original way. For one, it meant that not only was it important not to go home, but to try and not get any votes either, because that could cost you. I just wonder if they felt people were being too "nice" so they wouldn't get any votes. The rocks thing is too arbitrary to me.


I'm not a huge fan of the rocks, but the one thing I do like is that it forces the players to try and figure out the voting strategy before Tribal Council rather than saying, "Hey, I don't care if the vote is tied as long as the votes aren't for me." As long as that structure exists, we won't see rocks very often, which is good, IMO.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

I'm pretty sure the idol holders are at risk when it gets to the rocks.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

heySkippy said:


> I'm pretty sure the idol holders are at risk when it gets to the rocks.


Yeah..that's how I remember it too. In fact, didn't that just recently happen with Tyson?


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

Idol holders are at risk unless they played them pre-vote. Here's how ties have been broken in the past.

http://survivor.wikia.com/wiki/Tiebreaker


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

They've only drawn rocks twice (and the 1st time, they did it wrong). The immunity winner is safe along with the people that were tied, but hidden immunities would've needed to be played before the vote as usual (barring special idols which have been poorly explained).


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

pmyers said:


> Yeah..that's how I remember it too. In fact, didn't that just recently happen with Tyson?


Yes, Tyson took a huge risk and didn't play his HII and knew that he'd have a 1 in 3 chance of drawing the deadly rock and being eliminated, but he figured that he had a 2 in 3 shot of not drawing that rock so he played the odds and survived (and went on to win that season).



realityboy said:


> They've only drawn rocks twice (and the 1st time, they did it wrong). The immunity winner is safe along with the people that were tied, but hidden immunities would've needed to be played before the vote as usual (barring special idols which have been poorly explained).


Yes, it's the Special Idol that throws a big wrench into the tiebreaker scenarios. Although now Tony's Special Idol can't be used and hopefully they never introduce it into the game in the future, so we never have to find out what happens.


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