# Ten Years Of UK TiVo



## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Well this weekend plus or minus a couple of days TiVo went on sale in the UK.

To celebrate I got my one out of the loft and powered it up.

However, the cachecard now errors at boot relating to ram, the network led on my hub kept going off and on and it fails on the test call or to ping.

So it looks like my Tivo has failed to make it's tenth birthday 

Automan.


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## laurence (Jun 17, 2007)

It should never have been sent to the loft. Poor TiVo!
Mine's still going strong. Can't believe how long it's been around. And it's still my favourite gadget.


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## steveroe (Oct 29, 2002)

Two functioning here, unmodified with original harddrives - happy birthday Tivos!


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## steford (Oct 9, 2002)

I honestly thought it was older - time flies. I got mine in the £99 era around 2003 it must have been. Still my favourite gadget despite the Vu+ Duo and HTPC sitting alongside it - I wince every time I think it's failed knowing Sky+HD is inevitable.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

I thought I would try again this morning with the lid off.
And yes, the cachecard LED's came on as expected, did the test call ok and now running setup.
My old Sky blue viewing card no longer works saying go to http://www.sky.com/replacecard

I also have found something I posted nearly 10 years ago with my first thoughts of Tivo

http://www.btinternet.com/~morlocks/html/tivo.htm

Automan.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Automan said:


> My old Sky blue viewing card no longer works saying go to http://www.sky.com/replacecard


You only lose Five, Fiver, Five USA and Sky Three as a consequence although you may also find that the versions of BBC1 and ITV on 101 and 103 are not those for your region. This can obviously be fixed by using the version in the 900s instead, although some ITV1 Regions are unfortunately still broadcast FTV.

Alternatively you can always pay Sky £25 for a new Sky viewing card (which should last at least another five years) although I would have thought your money was better invested in a BBC/ITV Freesat box instead as these can be had for little more money and also work with Tivo.



> However, the cachecard now errors at boot relating to ram, the network led on my hub kept going off and on and it fails on the test call or to ping.


The RAM has probably become unseated on the Cachecard during its journey in to the loft and just needs pushing back in to place once the Tivo has been opened up. This seems to be a regular problem with the Cachecard where a Tivo is transported away from its normal or original resting place.



> the network led on my hub kept going off and on and it fails on the test call or to ping.


I suppose either the lead or socket could have got damaged. I have just tried using my five year old laptop on a wired instead of wireless basis with my router due to genuine concerns about nosy neighbours here but find the network socket on my notebook is now damaged (due to the notebook taking a few falls off the living room table in its life) and wired connectivity only lasts for a few minutes after the jack has been pushed hard in to the network lead socket.

I have to confess to also only having joined the Tivo party somewhat late in the day in December 2002 (put off at launch by the original £600 investment required and unaware of Tivo's real benefits at that stage as they were not properly sold) but as someone attracted by function in terms of much greater programs choice rather than by fashion (those on here who always seem to get the latest thing just because it is the latest thing) I have seen no reason to change as for for non pay Sky tv viewers and as someone not in a Virgin cable area the limited choice of HD on non pay tv channels did not seem to justify rushing to make Tivo redundant. Also HD seems to be a development of only about as much minor significance to most end users as the change from Nicam Stereo to Dolby Prologic despite all the endless fun that certain members of this forum clearly seem to have in discussing the numerous different encoding methods and technical standards for HD broadcasts.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

After another re-fit of my RAM card it seems to have been okay and I now have two steady Green LED's and a flashing Red LED.

Replacement Sky card on offer for &#163;20.00 and I may give it a go just for those few extra channels.

Automan.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Automan said:


> Replacement Sky card on offer for £20.00 and I may give it a go just for those few extra channels.


It was said a few months ago that Sky had now increased the FreesatFromSky card cost to £25 but perhaps that is only for brand new Freesat cards rather than replacement ones as it only seemed to be a £20 fee when I tried just now on their replacement card site.

However Will-in-Estoril over on the digitalspy forums says he has found a cheaper way to get a new Sky viewing card for only £11.98 by subscribing for two months to Nollywood Movies and then unsubscribing as two months is their minimum contract term. See:-

www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1194389

and

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=2135509

Note that one participant in the thread claims that the minimum Nollywood Movies term is actually only one month meaning that you could then get a replacement viewing card for only £5.99 although over at www.nollywoodmovies.tv/info/terms they seem to refer to a 12 months minimum term so I would be concerned that they may now have spotted this loophole and changed their terms and conditions accordingly.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Drat & Double Drat...

I just paid my £20.00 

Still at least I won't have the card cancellation hassle (if they had been any).

Automan.



Pete77 said:


> It was said a few months ago that Sky had now increased the FreesatFromSky card cost to £25 but perhaps that is only for brand new Freesat cards rather than replacement ones as it only seemed to be a £20 fee when I tried just now on their replacement card site.
> 
> However Will-in-Estoril over on the digitalspy forums has found a cheaper way to get a new Sky viewing card for only £11.98 by subscribing for two months to Nollywood Movies and then unsubscribing as two months is their minimum contract term. See:-
> 
> ...


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Automan said:


> Drat & Double Drat...
> 
> I just paid my £20.00


I think that Nollywood Movies have now tried to change their minimum term to 12 months but still screwed it up by leaving "2" as the number description even though they have "twelve" as the word description in paragraph G of their terms and conditions at www.nollywoodmovies.tv/info/terms

Also Argos are still selling the Bush BBC/ITV Freesat box for only £29.99 at www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5321557.htm but the main snag with that is no Fiver, Five USA and Sky Three (Five is provided on a different satellite transponder FTA to BBC/ITV Freesat customers) and no Sky News (as this model does not have a standard Eurosat box EPG mode as the Humax box does as I understand it) and Sky News does not pay to be in the BBC/ITV Freesat guide for political reasons even though it is still broadcast FTA (despite hollow threats from Sky a couple of years ago that they would change to FTV transmissiuon for Sky News on Astra at 28 degrees East).

A few other obscure Sky Freesat EPG channels of the like of Horse and Country and Audi tv are also not available through the BBC/ITV Freesat EPG simply because they are not willing to pay the minimum fee involved for the much smaller potential viewing audience (especially in their case as such minority interest channels) even though they are again broadcast FTA and not FTV.

Automan why the sudden renewed interest in Tivo again as I thought you were entirely happy with your other newer fangled PVR viewing platforms that were also HD capable. Or have you belatedly begun to realise that none of them are still anywhere near as convenient or reliable as Tivo is?


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

Automan said:


> Drat & Double Drat...
> 
> I just paid my £20.00
> 
> ...


Wierd, I ordered one yesterday (FreeSat from Sky) and had to fork over £25 (it used to be £20) - they also guaranteed my new card for only another 3 years, not five.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Milhouse said:


> Wierd, I ordered one yesterday (FreeSat from Sky) and had to fork over £25 (it used to be £20) - they also guaranteed my new card for only another 3 years, not five.


I used the replacecard Sky site at https://mysky.sky.com/replacecard/get-a-card and went as far as the final payment screen after entering an address and they were asking for £20. Are they perhaps charging £25 for a Freesat From Sky card if you are not replacing an old blue Sky viewing card number that has expired and £20 if you are replacing an expired blue card.

Its not clear over at www.sky.com/shop/freesat/home/ as they only show the now extortionate £175 Freesat From Sky box and dish + install charge (that's not even for an HD capable box but only for a standard dumb receive and no recording SD one) and do not show the option for buying a viewing card on its own. This makes the £75 that many of us paid for a FreesatFromSky box and dish install three years ago look something of a bargain, especially as Sky were eventually to force Sky to also replace the blue viewing cards with a new white card free of charge within the first five years as promised in their Terms and Conditions for FreesatFromSky at the time of sale of the product. Although this was only after extensive and repeated customer correspondence with their CEO, Jeremy Darroch, to ensure that these terms and conditions were adhere to by Sky.


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

Pete77 said:


> I used the replacecard Sky site at https://mysky.sky.com/replacecard/get-a-card and went as far as the final payment screen after entering an address and they were asking for £20. Are they perhaps charging £25 for a Freesat From Sky card if you are not replacing an old blue Sky viewing card number that has expired and £20 if you are replacing an expired blue card.


Yes this was for a new card, not a replacement.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Milhouse said:


> Yes this was for a new card, not a replacement.


It looks like they must charge £5 more for a wholly new Freesat card and customer account rather than a replacement one then. The only way to be sure would be to call their 0844 customer service number for FreesatFromSky but I don't do 0844s as they aren't part of anyone's inclusive call plans.:down:

It would appear that some of you must have plenty of stuff that you want to record from Five, Fiver, FiveUSA and Sky Three given that you clearly regard keeping your old Sky boxes going as a better bet than buying a brand new Bush Freesat one from Argos for £29.99 Or perhaps some of you are enthusiastic viewers of the likes of Horse & Country and Audi TV?


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

Pete77 said:


> It looks like they must charge £5 more for a wholly new Freesat card and customer account rather than a replacement one then. The only way to be sure would be to call their 0844 customer service number for FreesatFromSky but I don't do 0844s as they aren't part of anyone's inclusive call plans.


That's the number I called, although I'm not really that fussed about the increase (I did pay £20 about 18 months for another new card so it's clearly an increase for new cards at least).



Pete77 said:


> It would appear that some of you must have plenty of stuff that you want to record from Five, Fiver, FiveUSA and Sky Three given that you clearly regard keeping your old Sky boxes going as a better bet than buying a brand new Bush Freesat one from Argos for £29.99 Or perhaps are some of you enthusiastic viewers of the likes of Horse & Country and Audi TV?


It's a lot cheaper posting a Sky viewing card to Cyprus from the UK than it is a brand new set top box.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Milhouse said:


> It's a lot cheaper posting a Sky viewing card to Cyprus from the UK than it is a brand new set top box.


True although of course I'm sure that's something that one wouldn't want to mention in any conversations on the phone with Sky.

At the end of the day as things stand there are always going to be more FTA channels available on a Sky box in their standard EPG than there are on a BBC/ITV Freesat one in its EPG. And Five, Fiver and Five USA do on the whole probably show a somewhat better range of programs these days than ITV does.

The only thing Freesat has going for it is as a PVR solution, especially if you also want to record HD broadcasts or at least for as long as Sky insist on a £10 recording charge for non subscribers (which looks like it will be forever). But of course there are other more complicated computer based alternatives to a Freesat PVR including a Windows MCE based recorder box and appropriate on board tuners......

Presumably the main threat in Spain, Portugal, Cyprus, Canaries etc is if Astra manages to introduce its new even more focused satellite footprint beams on Astra 2D in due course.


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## davidshack (Aug 17, 2002)

Happy Birthday, TiVo!
Five TiVos still in daily use by my family, plus (at least) another five locally at friends'.
David


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

My Ten year old Tivo is still working okay and now with endpad.
Also after ordering on Sunday my new white Sky viewing card arrived giving me my local ITV and the other Chn5 channels WOW!

Alas our old Tivo's really miss having two or more tuners...

Set to record Doctor Who last night but it ran late so when the box changed channel at 20:30 the end was chopped off.


Also I miss not being able to browse the guide when playing back a recording.

From a picture quality point a view, on my 46" plasma it is not so bad but I get a black bar at picture bottom when program is 16:9 - OK with 4:3

But I would say, even after ten years the UK is a very useable product and of course more so when fitted with a chunky hard drive and a Cachecard.

Automan.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Automan said:


> Also I miss not being able to browse the guide when playing back a recording.


There was a hack at the other place that made the menus transparent, 
so you could watch a programme at the same time as being in any menu
- I found it distracting though.

I'm always having to mute the sound when I go into the menus on V+ which keeps livetv showing in a small box during the menus - and that can also spoil endings...

Solution to the single tuner problem is to buy 2 TiVos


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikerr said:


> - I found it distracting though.


Ideally you would be able to switch between a blue background and a transparent one showing the current program according to need.



> Solution to the single tuner problem is to buy 2 TiVos


Also as all the ITV, C4 and Five channels now have +1 variants on satellite the issue of recording clashes on a UK Series 1 Tivo is now much less of a problem than it used to be and one can also revert to the catch up services of the various terrestrial broadcasters to watch the said missed recording in the next 7 days or in some cases possibly longer (something that was not the case in October 2000).

Obviously there are more issues with the BBC as the regulators have forbidden it from launching any +1 channels for fear that this would improve its already heavy dominance of the non pay channel UK tv broadcasting scene.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

This morning I powered up TV to a frozen image from TiVo.

No response from remote and also it would not ping.

After a power cycle it is going again but I note the Kernel log says...



> Oct 20 01:06:10 (none) kernel: IDE: calling handler with dma_running, altstat=0x51
> Oct 20 01:06:10 (none) kernel: IDE: read command for sector 327048000 bailed with DMA running
> Oct 20 01:06:10 (none) kernel: hda: unexpected_intr: status=0x51 { DriveReady SeekComplete Error }
> Oct 20 01:06:10 (none) kernel: hda: unexpected_intr: error=0x40 { UncorrectableError }, secCnt=218, LBAsect=8280934
> ...


At a guess I would say the hard drive is on the way out?
It is a 200Gb Seagate.

Automan.


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

Automan said:


> This morning I powered up TV to a frozen image from TiVo.
> 
> No response from remote and also it would not ping.
> 
> ...


Yup new drives.

I am on my 4th set of drives.

- Original 30Gb + 15GB (1 year life, swapped as soon as warranty ran out)
- 80GB + 80GB (lasted 4 years).
- 200GB + 300GB (lasted 4.5 years).
- Finally single 500GB.

The 200GB and 500GB were bought pre-imaged, just plugged in and away I went. Each time just put my Var/Hack backup and season pass backup back on and carried on where I left off.

As for 10years I have one of the first UK TiVo's in the loft, posted to a UK tester/developer for UK the TiVo as a freebie, dated October 26th 2000.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Just ordered a 1Tb one from http://www.tivocentral.co.uk/1000GB+Tivo+Hard+Drive+Upgrade.html

Was surprised checkout did not ask for more questions unless perhaps some fancy extra startup software on the drive?

Automan.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Automan said:


> Was surprised checkout did not ask for more questions unless perhaps some fancy extra startup software on the drive?


I did remove the option for directly selecting 2.5.5 / 2.5.5a at the checkout since far too many customers were selecting 2.5.5a just because it "seems like a more recent version".
Nowadays its simpler as everyone with 255a sends a webnote or email followup as you did.:up:

As regards drive life - I still get calls from customers with the _original _40gb drives clunking along which have been in constant use since 2000 
-they're only now upgrading for capacity reasons or moving to freeview (and long since forgotton how to do guided setup).


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## childe (Jan 22, 2001)

Another old timer here - just reached my 10 year anniversary. Definitely the best gadget I have ever bought - thank God I bought the lifetime sub!

Now have Virgin's V+ on my main TV and keenly awaiting the launch of the new Vivo box. I just hope there have not been too many compromises to accommodate Virgin's other services. If it is anything like my trusty old series 1 I will snap it up, almost regardless of price.

BTW - I've never had any problems with my unit, other than the widespread one that was fixed via a recall after about 6m ownership. I've changed the HD, but only to get more capacity - I dread the day it fails. I even use it as a programme guide to find programmes to record on my V+ - as the V+ interface is so crap.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

childe said:


> BTW - I've never had any problems with my unit, other than the widespread one that was fixed via a recall after about 6m ownership.


Yes, the Nicam Stereo issue with the UHF Tuner 

Automan.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

childe said:


> I just hope there have not been too many compromises to accommodate Virgin's other services.


Not sure exactly what you were thinking of when you typed that but, as far as I could tell, the answer is that there haven't been any.


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## steveroe (Oct 29, 2002)

mikerr said:


> As regards drive life - I still get calls from customers with the _original _40gb drives clunking along which have been in constant use since 2000


 Hi there!


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## childe (Jan 22, 2001)

cwaring said:


> Not sure exactly what you were thinking of when you typed that but, as far as I could tell, the answer is that there haven't been any.


I really hope that is true because after seeing another of your threads, and despite what I wrote in it, I am sticking with Virgin (not defecting to Sky) . The prospect of an imminent launch of the Virgin Tivo was a big factor. The CSR I spoke to said the launch was due in November, much sooner than I had expected, although I am not sure how widespread this will be.

You said in your other thread that the functionality of the new service looked pretty much like the US service, which is great. I just have a nagging concern that they will have done something that uses the User Interface to force us to see all the other wonderful services Virgin want us to buy, instead of letting us just watch TV. I particularly hate being forced to have live TV playing whilst I am looking through my recordings in those cases when I am also recording is being broadcast - I don't want to see the ending accidentally. I also hope they incorporate the Tivo Fast Forward mechanism -much easier to avoid commercials that way, but Virgin may not want us to do that. Anyway, time will tell...


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## Johnbyte (Nov 4, 2008)

I'm in total awe of my Tivo which I bought on 11 November 2000 from Currys for the princely sum of &#163;399.99. I can't remember any other bit of kit that has been so utterly reliable. It's been in daily use since I bought it and has had just 1 replacement drive - and that was changed only because the original had become intolerably noisy. By contrast, I can't even remember how many replacement Sky boxes I've had because of various faults. 

If Virgin did something for those of us not in a cabled area, I'd jump at the chance. I dread the day the 'old' Tivo service is stopped or mine finally dies.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

VirginMedia is currently in talks with spotify music streaming for the UK:

http://m.pocket-lint.com/news/news.phtml/36242

The US TiVos have just got Pandora music streaming recently added, 
so the spotify news fits in with this going on the new UK VirginMedia TiVo 
:up:


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Johnbyte said:


> I'm in total awe of my Tivo which I bought on 11 November 1998 from Currys for the princely sum of £399.99.


Sure it was not in the year 2000?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TiVo

Automan.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

childe said:


> The CSR I spoke to said the launch was due in November, much sooner than I had expected, although I am not sure how widespread this will be.


I wouldn't expect it that soon.

A "soft-launch by the end of the year" is the last thing I heard from VM. As far as I can tell that means _some_ people in _some_ areas. The full roll-out will start early next year.



> You said in your other thread that the functionality of the new service looked pretty much like the US service, which is great. I just have a nagging concern that they will have done something that uses the User Interface to force us to see all the other wonderful services Virgin want us to buy, instead of letting us just watch TV.


There was nothing I could see that looked remotely like that.



> I particularly hate being forced to have live TV playing whilst I am looking through my recordings in those cases when I am also recording is being broadcast - I don't want to see the ending accidentally.


I must admit I can neither confirm or deny that for sure as, to be honest, I wasn't looking in the top-right-hand conrner that much 

That said, I always keep my box tuned to the BBC News Channel so I never see what's being recorded until I view it myself 



> I also hope they incorporate the Tivo Fast Forward mechanism -much easier to avoid commercials that way...


Again, I don't see why they shouldn't.



> but Virgin may not want us to do that.


You can with the V+ at the moment.



mikerr said:


> VirginMedia is currently in talks with spotify music streaming for the UK:


Here's that story for the rest of us; in the non-mobile version


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## einstein (Jul 19, 2001)

Just to add, I've had my two purchased at full price &#163;399 with monthly sub from, Dixons (they had to go out the back - because they didn't know what was in that large Silver box, and what a large box it is!) (because I thought the service wouldn't last!) - So wrong!

another three purchased at &#163;99 with lifetime.

All in daily use with original hard drives, had to purchase a few remotes, and power supplies failed after a power cut!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY UK TiVo's!

BEST TECH YET AWARD 2010!

What can I say but Brilliant!

e


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## martink0646 (Feb 8, 2005)

einstein said:


> Just to add, I've had my two purchased at full price £399 with monthly sub from, Dixons (they had to go out the back - because they didn't know what was in that large Silver box, and what a large box it is!) (because I thought the service wouldn't last!) - So wrong!


Snap, my experience exactly. I'd read about it in T3 & went to Dixons (in Braintree) on the lunchtime of launch day & they'd never heard of it!!! I persuaded them otherwise.

I showed swmbo the message last night & she commented (not without a little sarcasm) "great, that's nice of them after ten years of monthly payments". Cynical, my wife, surely not

I must admit that I am taking the pessimistic view that this is a precursor to the end of service but that doesn't diminish my appreciation to TiVo for the gesture. If it is the end then this is a nice thank you, if not then it is a great gift. I might feel a bit differently if I was one of those smug b*****ds who very intelligently payed for a lifetime sub back at the beginning. Finally we can ignore them looking metaphorically looking down their noses at us

I'm also not too worried if it is the end of service as our colonial cousins have proved that you can still get the data onto a TiVo after the withdrawal of service, especially with the really clever people like mikerr that inhabit this forum. The challenge might even entice people like blindlemon back.

Two more points, if no one is taking our payments, does that mean that Sky's revenue stream has turned off & if so will they stop CS or does our money go direct to TiVo who pay Sky a retainer?

Finally, if they aren't taking our direct debits, won't they lapse? If so I can't imagine that they are going to go through the hassle of re-instating all the accounts which will mean free forever or end of service. Lots of unknowns, but exciting (a relative term) times.

Regards,

Martin


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Speaking of Ten years I also note I have been a Tivo Forum Member that long also...

How many other October 2000 members remain?

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...ateafter=2000-10-01&joindatebefore=2000-11-01

My poor 10 year old Tivo is still on it's old drive as new one has not arrived yet 

When it does it will have a 5 fold increase in disk space / recording time.

Automan.


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## markhw42 (Aug 8, 2009)

I was a member (and owner) back in October 2000, but my original account (mwilson) lapsed for some reason. Been a lurker for a few years now, the TiVo's in constant use and still going strong, albeit with a hard drive replacement about 6 years ago.

Amazing bit of kit, gutted that I'm not in a cable area so I can't get the new one.


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## aleks (Mar 22, 2001)

I was one of the original trailists for TiVo. I had to answer a multi page questionnaire every week about how much TV (live and recorded) we watched before and after TiVo.

My box had no front panel and an even smaller hard drive - very clearly an early production prototype. 

I really struggled to explain to people why anyone would want a video recorder which might fill up and you couldn't keep the tapes. In the end I told them it was like a mobile phone: You never thought you would need one but once you had one you couldn't live without it.

Roll on the Vivo. If it's any good I'll definitely get one.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

10 years since liberation from slavery to the schedules!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

martink0646 said:


> Two more points, if no one is taking our payments, does that mean that Sky's revenue stream has turned off & if so will they stop CS or does our money go direct to TiVo who pay Sky a retainer?


Who is shown on your card statement as being the payee? From memory I think its Tivo and not Sky, although I personally only ever had two monthly payments for £10 on mine before I decided to pay the £200 for the Lifetime Sub and that was all nearly eight years ago now.

As to us Lifetime Sub guys being smug etc as Spock would say I felt that I was merely being "logical" since I felt it was very likely service would continue in some form for at least 20 months after buying the Lifetime Sub and I felt that even if it didn't then I would have had a claim against my credit card provider in the event that this didn't happen due to the insolvency of Tivo.

Of course I accept that many other members of the UK population do only seem to budget from month to month and don't seem to look at the annual cost and/or the lifetime ownership cost of things and this seems to be the only possible reason that Sky manages to do so well in the UK despite its horrendous annual subscription charges.


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## martink0646 (Feb 8, 2005)

Pete77 said:


> Who is shown on your card statement as being the payee? From memory I think its Tivo and not Sky, although I personally only ever had two monthly payments for £10 on mine before I decided to pay the £200 for the Lifetime Sub and that was all nearly eight years ago now.


It's perfectly possible that Sky set-up an account in the name of TiVo to handle the payments so that doesn't really leave us any the wiser. I was wondering if anyone actually knew as that could give a huge hint as to the future.



Pete77 said:


> As to us Lifetime Sub guys being smug etc as Spock would say I felt that I was merely being "logical" since I felt it was very likely service would continue in some form for at least 20 months after buying the Lifetime Sub and I felt that even if it didn't then I would have had a claim against my credit card provider in the event that this didn't happen due to the insolvency of Tivo.
> 
> Of course I accept that many other members of the UK population do only seem to budget from month to month and don't seem to look at the annual cost and/or the lifetime ownership cost of things and this seems to be the only possible reason that Sky manages to do so well in the UK despite its horrendous annual subscription charges.


 Thi comment is EXACTLY what I expected from smug lifetime owners. This doesn't mean I disagree with you, in fact I congratulate you wholeheartedly....just stop ramming it down our throats

In fact I did try to purchase a lifetime when I made the call to set-up my account & I would have done but for the fact that Sky CS didn't take SOLO payments at the time & that was the only card I had on me. But for that I would have saved £1000.00. Ho hum, such is life. It would have been a bigger cross to bear if I didn't think it was value for money.

Martin


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

martink0646 said:


> In fact I did try to purchase a lifetime when I made the call to set-up my account & I would have done but for the fact that Sky CS didn't take SOLO payments at the time & that was the only card I had on me. But for that I would have saved £1000.00. Ho hum, such is life.


That does seem very hard indeed. Especially as they would have taken the successor Visa Electron card to Solo had it been in use at that time.

Wouldn't they even take a cheque given that they were clearly not giving you anything valuable up front and that all the value only accrued over the ensuing years.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

My Tivo locked up again with a still picture so another power cycle needed.
Nothing this time in kernel log but I suppose if the error is bad enough it would not be able to write to the disc.

With luck new drive will arrive Monday...

Automan.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Automan said:


> My Tivo locked up again with a still picture so another power cycle needed.
> Nothing this time in kernel log but I suppose if the error is bad enough it would not be able to write to the disc.
> 
> With luck new drive will arrive Monday...
> ...


Indeed, new drive arrived about 20mins ago so I am now running guided setup 

Automan.


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## filbert (Sep 24, 2001)

I had to look back to see when I joined. It was Sept 2001. Not sure if that was because I was interested in a Tivo or already had one. I know I've made very few posts simply because I've had very few issues beyond a couple of HD replacements. I remember the dial up just stopping about the time I had ADSL and so I had to install Turbonet to get listings over the net and then upgraded the drive at the same time. The current problem at the moment is the controllers playing silly buggers with multiple presses or missed presses. I've taken them apart and cleaned them but still not quite sorted. Oh and for smugness value I had a lifetime a couple of months in so I am quids in  It will be a sad day for the family once (if?) the Tivo ever gives up the ghost.


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## childe (Jan 22, 2001)

filbert said:


> I had to look back to see when I joined. It was Sept 2001. Not sure if that was because I was interested in a Tivo or already had one. I know I've made very few posts simply because I've had very few issues beyond a couple of HD replacements. I remember the dial up just stopping about the time I had ADSL and so I had to install Turbonet to get listings over the net and then upgraded the drive at the same time. The current problem at the moment is the controllers playing silly buggers with multiple presses or missed presses. I've taken them apart and cleaned them but still not quite sorted. Oh and for smugness value I had a lifetime a couple of months in so I am quids in  It will be a sad day for the family once (if?) the Tivo ever gives up the ghost.


I had the same problem with my Tivo remote. Opening and cleaning it worked a bit, but in the end I bought a replacement remote. However that went the same way - I now use a universal remote (Logitech Harmony One) which works fine. Its a shame as I think the old peanut is one of the best designed remotes I have used (in terms of ergonomics).

And I echo your sentiment about when my Tivo dies, although when I upgrade to a larger screen I am not sure if I would want to use it. Anyone got any thoughts on how large a screen can be used with Tivo before the picture becomes unwatchable? I know its subjective and varies depending on the channel or TV itself, but any ideas?


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## DX30 (May 22, 2005)

childe said:


> Anyone got any thoughts on how large a screen can be used with Tivo before the picture becomes unwatchable?


I'm using TiVo's with a 42" Panasonic Plasma and a 37" Sony LCD, both with Mode 0, and am happy with the picture. As you said however it is very dependant on the TV as I found an earlier 32" Panasonic LCD gave a dodgy picture. If you do upgrade your TV make sure you audition it with the TiVo first.


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## deshepherd (Nov 30, 2000)

Yes, just done a Google search (they have a longer memory of old posts than this forum) and can see that I bought our TiVo 9 years ago. I was actually working in Silicon Valley for a period of 3 years when TiVo came out in the US and I remember thinking at the time that were we not shortly to return to the UK I'd buy one so was pleased to find it came out in the UK shortly after we returned. Not sure why it took us almost a year to get one ... we moved house during that period which probably was a factor as I think we didn't upgrade from analog to digital TeleWest until we'd moved.

Anyway, TiVo (including one of the 2 original HDDs!) is still going strong (though hoping VM TiVo comes out soon as getting some corruption on recordings which was the warning that the other original HDD was about to expire!)

As I've mentioned here before the thing with TiVo which has had the most effect on me was the realistion that my sons, who were 5 and 1 when we got TiVo, have grown up with the assumption that TV can be paused or recorded for later at the touch of a button and at times were completely thrown by the concept that in other people (e.g. grandparents) houses you had to watch TV "live"!

Other memory was when we went back to visit friends in California in 2002 and getting slighly lost around San Jose/Milpitas and driving down a road suddenly found ourselves passing a big building with a TiVo sign on the top!


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## childe (Jan 22, 2001)

deshepherd said:


> As I've mentioned here before the thing with TiVo which has had the most effect on me was the realistion that my sons, who were 5 and 1 when we got TiVo, have grown up with the assumption that TV can be paused or recorded for later at the touch of a button and at times were completely thrown by the concept that in other people (e.g. grandparents) houses you had to watch TV "live"!


This is so true! Even my oldest boy was only 7 when we got our Tivo, and so he has little or no memory of having to wait for the scheduled time for his favourite programmes. My other 2 have had Tivo since they were 4 and 1 respectively and so simply take it for granted. So far as they are concerned, whenever they want to watch TV there is always a programme that they want to watch.

This is a far cry from my childhood when children's TV started at around 4pm and ended at 5.45pm. On the otherhand, that did force me to watch (and even enjoy) more adult programming than my children would ever watch, because there was nothing else on. In some respects that was probably a good thing. Or, even more radical, I would do something other than watch TV!

DX30 - thanks for you feedback re TV screen sizes - I thought 42" would probably be OK, provided the TV itself is decent. That said, even on my old 36" Sony, some cable channels via Tivo are pretty poor, whereas direct from the cable box they do look better. I haven't done the mode 0 mod - is it worth the effort?


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## rjmacdon (Aug 4, 2003)

I got mine about 2 months before the 2002 word cup, so that's 8 years for mine. Still the original 40Gb HDD - many times I've thought of upgrading it, but always fretting about causing more harm than good and the thought of having no TiVo was almost scary (at least it was a few years ago) In these days of much false, hyped, over-the-top praise for so many nondescript gadgets (and people !) , I can honestly say that Tivo has been the BEST thing I have ever bought. 

I presently have mine plugged into a Sky+ HD box. Obviously Sky always wins the recording conflict war, but most of the things which I have on Sky don't conflict with anything which I record on Tivo. (tend to have most of the season passes on tivo for things which just interest me and/or some terrestial broadcasts).
FWIW - Tivo still rules as far as EPG goes - easy searching by actor, keyword, etc is still not anything which I've noticed on any other machine - despite 10 years of opportunity for someone to do so ! 

I'm thinking of plugging a cheep'n cheerful Freeview box into the front of the Tivo for when the analogue is switched off, but not sure which Freeview boxes would still be supported by the Tivo IR software. 
It still disappoints me as to how badly Tivo was marketed in the UK - this service/device could and should have been in place in most houses in the UK if they had played the game better. It still makes me laugh when Tivo get a name check on programmes, film , etc... must be lost on so many people in the UK..( that's not me being smug - just a bit melancholy I s'pose)
I only stop by this forum every 4-6 months or so to check for any "news". Been like that for a bit too long... but maybe this new Tivo message might lead to something interesting .....


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## deshepherd (Nov 30, 2000)

childe said:


> This is so true! Even my oldest boy was only 7 when we got our Tivo, and so he has little or no memory of having to wait for the scheduled time for his favourite programmes. My other 2 have had Tivo since they were 4 and 1 respectively and so simply take it for granted. So far as they are concerned, whenever they want to watch TV there is always a programme that they want to watch.


Always having a seasons passes with a "keep at most" of 1 or 2 ensures that there's always something they want to watch while not filling the disk too much. Its just that the programs used for the SPs change over time ... 9 years ago it was "teletubbies" and "ballamory", now its "QI" and "Mock the Week"!


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## DX30 (May 22, 2005)

childe said:


> I haven't done the mode 0 mod - is it worth the effort?


I think it is, in my experience probably more so with LCD than Plasma, but opinions do vary.

The increased resolution helps with larger screens but the downside is the possibility of white flashes on playback. That does seem to vary from TiVo to TiVo (or maybe some people just notice it more than others). If it turns out you are one of those badly affected, for whatever reason, you can always revert back.


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## laurence (Jun 17, 2007)

Originally Posted by childe 
Anyone got any thoughts on how large a screen can be used with Tivo before the picture becomes unwatchable?
I have a projector and view TiVo on an 86" screen. With mode 0 enabled that gives a decent enough picture. Without mode 0 it would be unwatchable IMO. Oddly, I haven't seen the flashes lately, although I do remember them being annoying when I first set it up - not sure what's changed!


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

I also use a projector for the odd Tivo'ed film and while it isn't DVD it is perfectly watchable.
I used to notice the white flashes - they occurred more on some Freeview channels than others - I've also not noticed them so much recently - may be that they're less frequent or just I've tuned them out over the years.


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## Ovit-UK (Dec 26, 2002)

Automan said:


> Indeed, new drive arrived about 20mins ago so I am now running guided setup
> 
> Automan.


Has it worked out ok?


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Yes, no problems in operation but I do get the flickering at the bottom of the picture on some channels which is a known Mode 0 issue.

New drive has a option to turn off mode 0 from a Tivo menu so if it gets to me I will turn Mode 0 off or try playing with the settings...

Automan.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Automan said:


> New drive has a option to turn off mode 0 from a Tivo menu so if it gets to me I will turn Mode 0 off or try playing with the settings..


Was that drive by any chance supplied by Tivocentral?


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Which has what to do with anything, Pete? AIUI that is a 'feature' of the Mode0 hack no matter where you got the drive from.


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## phantom73 (May 4, 2005)

Just dug out and dusted down my Tivo after 2 years at the back of the cupboard. Didn't think I would miss it quite as much as I have - so looking forward to the VirginMedia's Tivo.

Other than the remote control duplicating my button presses, it works as good as the day I bought it from NTL.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Pete77 said:


> Was that drive by any chance supplied by Tivocentral?


Yes...

http://www.tivocentral.co.uk/1000GB+Tivo+Hard+Drive+Upgrade.html

Automan.


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## davisa (Feb 19, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> Originally Posted by childe
> Anyone got any thoughts on how large a screen can be used with Tivo before the picture becomes unwatchable?
> I have a projector and view TiVo on an 86" screen. With mode 0 enabled that gives a decent enough picture. Without mode 0 it would be unwatchable IMO. Oddly, I haven't seen the flashes lately, although I do remember them being annoying when I first set it up - not sure what's changed!


I also watch on an 86" 16:9 screen and DLP projector with TiVo mode 0. I don't notice any flashes at all, although I do on the 32" LCD TV. perhaps that's relevant?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Automan said:


> Yes...
> 
> http://www.tivocentral.co.uk/1000GB+Tivo+Hard+Drive+Upgrade.html
> 
> Automan.


What has caused you to go down the route of bringing your Tivo back in to service and upgrading it to the Max when you at one stage seemed to consider it to be technologically superseded?

Has the poor quality of the reliability of Guide Data in Windows MCE been a deciding factor? By the way did you raise a query with the Cellomedia people yet about the missing EPG data for CBS Drama?


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## Furball (Dec 6, 2001)

einstein said:


> Just to add, I've had my two purchased at full price £399 .............


And another here ..............bought in 2001 from John Lewis (due to the two year guarantee they always offer, £200 lifetime subbed, Nicam fixed a month later, 2yrs on a Maxtor 120gb bought for the grand total of £76.10 ............touch wood still going strong on that drive today 

Fur


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Pete77 said:


> What has caused you to go down the route of bringing your Tivo back in to service and upgrading it to the Max when you at one stage seemed to consider it to be technologically superseded?
> 
> Has the poor quality of the reliability of Guide Data in Windows MCE been a deciding factor? By the way did you raise a query with the Cellomedia people yet about the missing EPG data for CBS Drama?


I must admit to not bothering to email them...

Guide data for CBS Drama exists on MCE (once you find it, it is called Zone Romanitca).

I still may retire my Tivo again....

Why..
1. Power Consumption.
2. Only 1 Tuner
3. Guide Data not complete and missing completely for some channels.
4. Now Playing list even with mod makes picking items already viewed vs unwatched difficult (so does MCE BTW).

What I would like is a Windows based alternative to MCE with a setup procedure as easy as our UK Tivo's and guide data as good as Digiguide and of course as many tuners as you want.
The ability to subscribe to Sky channels would also be a big bonus.

Automan.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Automan said:


> 4. Now Playing list even with mod makes picking items already viewed vs unwatched difficult (so does MCE BTW).


MCE makes as many double recordings, has an advantage in finding them as when viewing then in the show folder you can sort by OAD or by episode title, and also the thumbnail can often identify duplicates.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Automan said:


> I still may retire my Tivo again....
> 
> Why..
> 
> 1. Power Consumption.


But how do I ever reconcile your very clear sense of frugalness about electricity being unnecessarily consumed with your obvious willingness to readily spend significant amounts of money on frequently unreliable new technology to monitor its use or indeed being prepared to invest in an expensive hard drive upgrade for the Tivo (that you would no doubt have had to slave away for hours and hours over and made numerous mistakes during the process before in the end finally getting a cheaper do it yourself Tivo upgrade)? Do you I wonder have another potential user of your formerly retired Tivo in mind other than yourself? Otherwise why go to all this trouble with bringing it back to life and upgrade it? Or have you only done all this in the name of research as our No1 forum gadget man and early adopter of new technology.

I personally find recording clashes to no longer be a serious issue with my Tivo due to all the +1 versions of ITV, C4 and Five channels and the availability of the BBC Iplayer and equivalent services for at least 7 days after broadcast for all the main terrestrial channels. Recording clashes were a big issue when I first had my Tivo in 2002.

Lack of HD is the only significant draw back to continued Tivo use that in any way bothers me.



> 3. Guide Data not complete and missing completely for some channels.


True. But no worse than any of the alternatives by and large. It does seem a pity that all these various PVR manufacturers (Sky, Virgin, Tivo, MCE, Freesat, Freeview etc) can't outsource the job to Digiguide as the only apparently consistently competent EPG provider.



> 4. Now Playing list even with mod makes picking items already viewed vs unwatched difficult (so does MCE BTW).


Perhaps you need to add Mike's hack to add episode titles to each of the program descriptions in Now Playing. This is part of the SortNP utility that Mike developed.



> What I would like is a Windows based alternative to MCE with a setup procedure as easy as our UK Tivo's and guide data as good as Digiguide and of course as many tuners as you want.
> 
> The ability to subscribe to Sky channels would also be a big bonus.


I thought there was some of PC application based solution that healeydave mentioned that he found to be somewhat nearer to viewing Nirvana than Tivo, Sky+ or MCE.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Pete77 said:


> But how do I ever reconcile your very clear sense of frugalness about electricity being unnecessarily consumed with your obvious willingness to readily spend significant amounts of money on frequently unreliable new technology to monitor its use or indeed being prepared to invest in an expensive hard drive upgrade for the Tivo (that you would no doubt have had to slave away for hours and hours over and made numerous mistakes during the process before in the end finally getting a cheaper do it yourself Tivo upgrade)? Do you I wonder have another potential user of your formerly retired Tivo in mind other than yourself? Otherwise why go to all this trouble with bringing it back to life and upgrade it? Or have you only done all this in the name of research as our No1 forum gadget man and early adopter of new technology.


I must admit I have yet to perform an energy check on Tivo and my STB but I guess the pair eat 60 watts which is about £60.00 per year.

This compared with a Foxsat-HDR or MCE both of which eat under 1 watt in standby.

By myself, it makes no odds but if everyone in the UK had a Series 1 Tivo it could equal the output of a whole power station (just like is required to power the 10,000,000 Sky boxes in service).

Re the hard drive upgrade, I have done one before but that was in the days when all PC's were full of IDE connections.

Now one has to also play with SATA / IDE converters plust the issue of the power cables to hook them up to the 5v/12v supplies.

Plus I guess to get a 1Tb drive more than just the basic old steps must be required to avoid issues with the swap file space etc.

The pre-built drive of course is the easy way out and only took under 10 minutes to fit and be ready to run guided setup again.



> I personally find recording clashes to no longer be a serious issue with my Tivo due to all the +1 versions of ITV, C4 and Five channels and the availability of the BBC Iplayer and equivalent services for at least 7 days after broadcast for all the main terrestrial channels. Recording clashes were a big issue when I first had my Tivo in 2002.
> 
> Lack of HD is the only significant draw back to continued Tivo use that in any way bothers me.


I actually forgot the fact that Tivo had no HD and as you say that is a factor.



> True. But no worse than any of the alternatives by and large. It does seem a pity that all these various PVR manufacturers (Sky, Virgin, Tivo, MCE, Freesat, Freeview etc) can't outsource the job to Digiguide as the only apparently consistently competent EPG provider.
> 
> Perhaps you need to add Mike's hack to add episode titles to each of the program descriptions in Now Playing. This is part of the SortNP utility that Mike developed.


Yes, my new drive had the SortNP pre loaded but it still does no tell you if you have watched it or not.

Sky+ Planner and FoxSat-HDR products indicate the status of a recording either new or viewed.



> I thought there was some of PC application based solution that healeydave mentioned that he found to be somewhat nearer to viewing Nirvana than Tivo, Sky+ or MCE.


All the ones I have tried so far have been far from easy.

Extracting the program guide data form over the air or from Digiguide, matching the channel numbers up all seem to be tricky areas.

Then when the channel lineup is changed or a new channel is added it all goes pear shaped again.

As it will when BBC1 HD starts next week....

Automan.


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