# Poll for TiVo's next line of DVRs



## buscuitboy (Aug 8, 2005)

Just wondering what you think TiVo's next line of DVRs will be like


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

I picked the dual 4 tuner OTA/Cable option but I also think there will be a new 6 tuner cable only model.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

First and foremost they will use a better chip, so the UI and all apps should be a lot faster. You can already see this in action if you use a Mini, which has a better chip then the current Premiere units. The new units will likely use the companion chip to the one in the Mini, which is actually even faster then what's in the Mini.

It's likely that the base model will have a minimum of 4 tuners and that we'll see a 6 tuner option as well.

We might see built in TiVo Stream capabilities. The chip TiVo is likely to use has the ability to trascode two streams to H.264 on the fly. Since the box will be digital only (i.e. no analog to transcode) they should be able to leverage the transcoding capabilities to offer TiVo Stream capabilities internally.

All future TiVos will have MoCa built in. 

They are also working on a new remote. The main feature seems to be a locator option that will allow you to press a button on the TiVo itself that will cause the remote to beep so you can find it. They might also convert to BT to eliminate line of sight issues.

Beyond that I don't expect it to be much different. It will likely use the same software as the current Premiere units. Although the faster chip could entice 3rd party developers to offer their services on the new TiVo. Services like Amazon Prime, VUDU and HBOGo all have AdobeAir apps that run on Samsung smart TVs. However the current TiVo platform does not meet the minimum system requirements for AdobeAir so these services could be holding back because they believe the current platform causes a poor user experience. The new platform would eliminate that and could attract more developers/services. Although these services could also be holding back because of business issues we're unaware of, so no telling for sure.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I replied before there was a poll. 

Just FYI 7 or more tuners is not currently possible. The CableCARD spec currently only allows for 6 tuners max. There is a Cisco CableCARD out there that can do 8 channels, but they're not actually being used anywhere in the field.

Also we know from their FCC filing that they are planning a 4 tuner OTA/Cable unit. We also have it on pretty good inside info that there is a 6 tuner cable only unit coming as well. A 6 tuner OTA/cable unit is unlikely.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I picked the 6-tuner digital cable only model option but I also think there will be a new 4 tuner OTA/Cable model.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Just a repeat of what others have said.

6 tuner cable only and a 4 tuner OTA/Cable though unclear how many tuners OTA will offer. I don't see TiVo deviating from the matched number of tuners otherwise we might see a 4/2 Cable/OTA with a total of 4 at anytime. 

I think pricing will remain around the same as the launch prices. 

6 tuner XL model which hopefully has 3TB for $499. 
6 tuner 2TB model for $399. 
4 tuner with OTA XL model for $399.
4 Tuner with OTA model for $299. 

I could see them making a shift again to the 1TB drive from 500gb for the base if there is demand from the cable partners for larger than 500GB especially with stuff like the Verizon server coming out with 1TB. 

One thing that could drive the prices lower though is if they choose to drop the 2 tuner model so all models support the Mini. I can't see them wanting their cheapest model to cost $299. I suppose they could offer a new 2 tuner if the cable companies still want one which would return at the $149 price with 500gb unless they shift up to the 1TB drive. I don't see an XL model for the 2 tuner. 

One other scenario is they offer the Premiere 4 without OTA for $199. This would probably make more sense since they don't need OTA for the cable company models so they would already be manufacturing this model.


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## buscuitboy (Aug 8, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> I replied before there was a poll.
> 
> Just FYI 7 or more tuners is not currently possible. The CableCARD spec currently only allows for 6 tuners max. There is a Cisco CableCARD out there that can do 8 channels, but they're not actually being used anywhere in the field.


Yea, I am sort of aware of this, but was thinking that by the time a new line hits the market (probably at least the fall....if not later), there might then be some new developments on the cable card industry that could be adopted into a new TiVo. Just a thought.



Dan203 said:


> Also we know from their FCC filing that they are planning a 4 tuner OTA/Cable unit. We also have it on pretty good inside info that there is a 6 tuner cable only unit coming as well. A 6 tuner OTA/cable unit is unlikely.


I'd LOVE to see some sort of OTA support, but I'm still skeptical on that no matter what kind of "filing" they have done.


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## Richard Cranium (Mar 28, 2010)

buscuitboy said:


> Just wondering what you think TiVo's next line of DVRs will be like


My guess is whatever Dish and DirecTV have had for the last 2 years.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

buscuitboy said:


> I'd LOVE to see some sort of OTA support, but I'm still skeptical on that no matter what kind of "filing" they have done.


If you read the filing you wouldn't be so skeptical. They specifically state that at least one of these new devices will have OTA support. There was no mention of the number of tuners but they also had a survey recently which asked users about whether they would be interested in a 4 tuner unit with OTA. That coupled with the fact that the Mini specifically states that it only works with units with 4 or more tuners seems to indicate that the next generation TiVo will include a 4 tuner box with OTA support.

Now I guess it's possible they could scrap the OTA support if they don't like the cost/benefit analysis, but all current indications point to them releasing a new box with OTA support.


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## mcf57 (Oct 19, 2012)

While probably HIGHLY unlikely, I would love to see the next TiVo have both a 6 tuner digital cable mode AND a dual tuner OTA option all in one box. Hence the reason I voted for 7 (or more). I know, a fat chance of this, but one can simply dream can't they


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> If you read the filing you wouldn't be so skeptical. They specifically state that at least one of these new devices will have OTA support. There was no mention of the number of tuners but they also had a survey recently which asked users about whether they would be interested in a 4 tuner unit with OTA. That coupled with the fact that the Mini specifically states that it only works with units with 4 or more tuners seems to indicate that the next generation TiVo will include a 4 tuner box with OTA support.
> 
> Now I guess it's possible they could scrap the OTA support if they don't like the cost/benefit analysis, but all current indications point to them releasing a new box with OTA support.


Yup. Probably a 4-tuner box with 2 2-tuner chips in it. It's a much smaller market, but one that no one else serves, so it would be stupid to abandon.


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## buscuitboy (Aug 8, 2005)

mcf57 said:


> While probably HIGHLY unlikely, I would love to see the next TiVo have both a 6 tuner digital cable mode AND a dual tuner OTA option all in one box. Hence the reason I voted for 7 (or more). I know, a fat chance of this, but one can simply dream can't they


When I originally made the poll, I wasn't really thinking this angle (& more a straight 7+ digital tuner), but I guess this could be another way to look at it. Probably still very unlikely to have a 6-tuner digital cable AND 2-tuner OTA in one box, but I would agree that this would be a nice one if they did come out with it. I personally would buy a box like this for not only the OTA option, but also to have more cable tuners available for one or more TiVO minis in a system.

I am also REALLY hoping that by the time they come out with their next line of boxes, they have worked out the dynamic tuning option of the TiVo mini. The total hijack of a tuner from a Premiere is really the thing that is preventing me personally from getting one.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

buscuitboy said:


> When I originally made the poll, I wasn't really thinking this angle (& more a straight 7+ digital tuner), but I guess this could be another way to look at it. Probably still very unlikely to have a 6-tuner digital cable AND 2-tuner OTA in one box, but I would agree that this would be a nice one if they did come out with it. I personally would buy a box like this for not only the OTA option, but also to have more cable tuners available for one or more TiVO minis in a system.
> 
> I am also REALLY hoping that by the time they come out with their next line of boxes, they have worked out the dynamic tuning option of the TiVo mini. The total hijack of a tuner from a Premiere is really the thing that is preventing me personally from getting one.


If you put a Mini on a TV that you do not need to watch live TV much you do not have to give up a tuner, you can still watch live TV by starting a recording of the channel you want to watch live.


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## sneagle (Jun 12, 2002)

No idea. What I want though...

- faster
- built in stream feature
- Bluetooth remote the works
- big hard drives
- built in MOCA
- at least 4 tuners


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## mr_smits (Dec 17, 2009)

I recently went OTA, but if that doesn't work out I may subscribe to cable again in the future. I would like a 4-tuner model Tivo that supports both OTA and cable that will allow me the flexibility to change my mind in the future.

Also looking forward to a model that loads Netflix faster than the 30+ seconds it seems to take now.


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## NotNowChief (Mar 29, 2012)

Let us all remember that the Mini was a Unicorn, and the next DVR box is Bigfoot.

With that being said, if they say the box is coming at the the end of the 4th quarter 2013, I would realistically expect it absolutely no sooner than 2nd quarter 2014, after a minimum of 2 pushbacks.

So let's all stop hoping and specualting about the next box, and just face the fact that what we all use now is going to be exactly what will be using for the next year. Just enjoy your Minis and Streams and quad-tuner boxes and dual-tuner boxes.

Get over it, and get used to it.

All of us were hopped up and hopeful with the Mini for a veeeeeery long time.

All we know for sure is that TiVo filed a "waiver" a few weeks ago. Let's all be realistic, and remember who we are talking about here. It's going to be a while. We have gotten no clues or rumors from them for sure. So let's all hold off on getting everyone excited and having even more threads than we already do about the "next-gen" box.

/end rant

::steps off of soapbox::


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

atmuscarella said:


> I picked the dual 4 tuner OTA/Cable option but I also think there will be a new 6 tuner cable only model.


This...


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Joe3 said:


> You people here, drinking in all your cable companies Kool-Aid at whatever price they want to charge for channels no one watches, crack me up. The OTA vote as you can see is split. Put the numbers together. Clearly, OTA is no small market and may even pass the all digital cable box preference.


Only TiVo knows what percentage of their users are cable vs OTA, but nationally almost 80% of the population subscribes to pay TV service of some kind. And the vast majority of the other 20% are poor families that simply can not afford pay TV and likely wouldn't be able to afford TiVo either. So the potential market for an OTA only TiVo would be very small compared to the potential cable market.

The only way the next gen TiVo is going to have OTA is if they can create a box that can do both cable and OTA symetrically. I believe there is enough of a market for them to include the hardware necessary to do both cable and OTA in a 4 tuner box, but it's likely we'll also see a 6 tuner box that is cable only like the current 4 tuner units, because the market for cable is so much bigger.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

NotNowChief said:


> Get over it, and get used to it.


Good advice, maybe you should take it yourself...


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## NotNowChief (Mar 29, 2012)

bradleys said:


> Good advice, maybe you should take it yourself...


How is that?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

NotNowChief said:


> Let us all remember that the Mini was a Unicorn, and the next DVR box is Bigfoot.
> 
> With that being said, if they say the box is coming at the the end of the 4th quarter 2013, I would realistically expect it absolutely no sooner than 2nd quarter 2014, after a minimum of 2 pushbacks.
> 
> ...


I know the Mini got pushed and that upset you, but historically TiVo doesn't have that bad a reputation for slipping. The Stream was released on time. The current Premiere was released without anyone even knowing it was coming. The TiVo HD too. The S3 unit was released on time as well. While they have slipped on a few software releases, and the Mini, it's hardly enough to judge it as a given.

Also we have in fact gotten clues and rumors "for sure". The FCC filing specifically mentions that they want to have these new units to market by the holiday season this year. We also got information from someone with an inside source, who was right about the Mini, that there would be a 6 tuner unit coming this fall before the FCC filing was public. So there are some pretty strong clues and rumors that a new unit will be coming this fall. Could it slip? Sure. Is it guaranteed to? No. If it's based on the same platform as the Pace 6 tuner box, which is highly likely, then that means it's been in development for over a year already so the hardware is likely ready to go. They just have to wait for the FCC to approve their request so they can start producing them for retail. The 4 tuner OTA box is still pretty much all conjecture at this point, but I still think it's likely given the hard stance TiVo has taken on the Mini requiring a box with at least 4 tuners.


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## NotNowChief (Mar 29, 2012)

Eh, it wasn't so much that it upset me, as that I couldn't believe what took so long. It was laughable that they announced it and showed it at CES, and then took that much longer to go on sale. 

When the Premiere launched it had an unreal amount of HDUI issues, I see the Mini has alot of various issues in the Mini forum, the Stream still can only work with Apple, so looking at their last 3 efforts on products, I can't help but NOT believe that anything will be on sale by the end of the year, and will be done in traditional "Tivo fashion". Late and incomplete. While we all rampantly discuss it here.

That's just my opinion.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The Premiere was a completely new platform with a completely new UI which turned out to be way more ambitious then they expected. I agree it was a bit of a disaster, but I think they learned that it's better to release late then broken, which may be what happened with the Mini.

The Stream came out when expected with exactly the features that were expected. Android support was never promised or demonstrated and wasn't even announced until well after the Stream was released. Also, I've explained this in the Stream forum, but there were technical limitations to the Android platform that made it impossible to support Android at launch. So counting that as some sort of TiVo failure is not really fair.

I'm not sure what happened with the Mini. I have it on pretty good authority that it was actually ready for launch in the Fall of 2012. So either they had some sort of production delay or they found a last minute flaw that had to be addressed before it was released. I'm not sure if we'll ever know exactly what happened there. But given the debacle of the Premiere I think they were probably wise to hold it back until it was actually ready.

That being said I don't think the software on these new units will be any different then what we have now. It's not like they are building a new platform, this is just a hardware refresh akin to the TiVo HD vs the S3. They'll need to do some work on the back end to make it work with the new hardware, but the front end will run the same HDUI we're using now. So it's unlikely it will be "incomplete" because there is really nothing to complete. The only thing I could see possibly getting delayed is the built in Stream capabilities, and we don't even know for sure that those will exist. Other then that it's probably going to run the same exact software we're running on our Premiere units right now.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

All the screens are still not using the HDUI so the HDUI is still incomplete.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> All the screens are still not using the HDUI so the HDUI is still incomplete.


True, but most screens that people use all the time are now in HD, adjustment that are made very few times like the cable card menu don't have to be in HD, (Kids control may be the only exception, if that even included in the next model) the next TiVo IMHO will not have a SDUI available just like the Mini.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Joe3 said:


> You people here, drinking in all your cable companies Kool-Aid at whatever price they want to charge for channels no one watches, crack me up. The OTA vote as you can see is split. Put the numbers together. Clearly, OTA is no small market and may even pass the all digital cable box preference.


Probably 70+% of the content I watch isn't available on OTA. So OTA wouldn't do me much good. I'd be left basically with PBS. Oh, and no basketball either, since SNY owns the contracts for my team, and a few games go to ESPN. No news talk shows on MSNBC. No John Stewart and Steven Colbert. No HBO. It would suck.



Dan203 said:


> Only TiVo knows what percentage of their users are cable vs OTA, but nationally almost 80% of the population subscribes to pay TV service of some kind. And the vast majority of the other 20% are poor families that simply can not afford pay TV and likely wouldn't be able to afford TiVo either. So the potential market for an OTA only TiVo would be very small compared to the potential cable market.
> 
> The only way the next gen TiVo is going to have OTA is if they can create a box that can do both cable and OTA symetrically. I believe there is enough of a market for them to include the hardware necessary to do both cable and OTA in a 4 tuner box, but it's likely we'll also see a 6 tuner box that is cable only like the current 4 tuner units, because the market for cable is so much bigger.


Correct. OTA DVRs are a tiny market, at least at $500. If they were selling for $100, then it would be a different story.

That's actually a good prediction.



lessd said:


> True, but most screens that people use all the time are now in HD, adjustment that are made very few times like the cable card menu don't have to be in HD, (Kids control may be the only exception, if that even included in the next model) the next TiVo IMHO will not have a SDUI available just like the Mini.


There are a number of them. Can't think off the top of my head, but I get kicked back fairly often. No excuse for that.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Joe3 said:


> You people here, drinking in all your cable companies Kool-Aid at whatever price they want to charge for channels no one watches, crack me up. The OTA vote as you can see is split. Put the numbers together. Clearly, OTA is no small market and may even pass the all digital cable box preference.


(BTW, your allusion is incorrect.. It was Flavor Aid..)

Plus, *you* are the one who is in denial. The proportion of people using OTA only is VERY small. Most people ARE willing to pay for cable/satellite.

Would I have preferred my Premiere 4 support OTA? Yes, and I probably would have paid a bit more for it had it done so.. But I still bought it even though I realized I would be stuck with cable.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Bigg said:


> There are a number of them. Can't think off the top of my head, but I get kicked back fairly often. No excuse for that.


People on this forum (like you and me) may go more often to SD screens but most users don't ever see the SD screen after the full setup of their Premiere.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

Something with high-def analog inputs would be killer - so I can feed the output of the HD cable box or U-verse or whatever into it and live with TiVo UI, control and scheduling of the video.

That's what I'd really want and what I have Windows Media Center currently doing. I prefer TiVo though.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

lessd said:


> People on this forum (like you and me) may go more often to SD screens but most users don't ever see the SD screen after the full setup of their Premiere.


Wishlists are still SD, and I'd bet those are used all the time. But maybe Tivo has metrics that say otherwise so they didn't bother with doing it last fall when they did most of what is used. I find it odd that SPs were done but not WLs however.

The real shame of the Premiere launch is the complete disconnect between the hardware and software sides of the house at Tivo, because they had to know the HDUI would be a dog on that platform. It's sad that we'll end up waiting almost 4 years to get a box that can decently run something that should have been taken for granted.


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## buscuitboy (Aug 8, 2005)

Worf said:


> Something with high-def analog inputs would be killer - so I can feed the output of the HD cable box or U-verse or whatever into it and live with TiVo UI, control and scheduling of the video.


I would love to see this option as well. It would FINALLY be a way for UVerse to work with TiVo. I used to do something like this with my old Series 2 (DT) unit. Actually, I did it with my TiVo S2 & a Comcast digital box. It allowed me to manually record OnDemand material into my TiVo (via its inputs). I could then multi-room transfer it to any the other TiVos in my network. It was SD only and a rough way of getting OnDemand material with a TiVo, but it worked.

If they did provide HD analog inputs, the only downfall of course is it would basically limit the TiVo unit to just ONE tuner. When they are probably gonna have at least 4 (or more) tuners in their next line of DVRs & this is the overall direction of the industry, I can't see them considering this option. Would still be great to see.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Worf said:


> Something with high-def analog inputs would be killer - so I can feed the output of the HD cable box or U-verse or whatever into it and live with TiVo UI, control and scheduling of the video.
> 
> That's what I'd really want and what I have Windows Media Center currently doing. I prefer TiVo though.


Analog is going away. They already started eliminating them from disc players and other devices are also doing the same. Each year less and less devices will be produced with analog outputs or inputs.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

slowbiscuit said:


> Wishlists are still SD, and I'd bet those are used all the time. But maybe Tivo has metrics that say otherwise so they didn't bother with doing it last fall when they did most of what is used. I find it odd that SPs were done but not WLs however.
> 
> The real shame of the Premiere launch is the complete disconnect between the hardware and software sides of the house at Tivo, because they had to know the HDUI would be a dog on that platform. It's sad that we'll end up waiting almost 4 years to get a box that can decently run something that should have been taken for granted.


Most shows aren't on multiple channels which is the only time I use wishlists so I wouldn't be surprised if most people don't use them. I would guess TiVo has the data on how many WLs are out there compared to Season Passes.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

aaronwt said:


> Analog is going away. They already started eliminating them from disc players and other devices are also doing the same. Each year less and less devices will be produced with analog outputs or inputs.


Cableboxes still have 'em. That's all that matters. (There are also conveniently devices to take HDMI-HDCP and convert them to analog). At least analog capture won't have to deal with copyright bits, copy restrictions, etc.

I suppose with a bit of careful IR work or serial channel switchers, you can have multiple tuners supported on one TiVo as well, as long as each box can be changed independently.

Hell, I'd like to see it as an option. Even if it's a USB attachment you plug into a TiVo.


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## SnakeEyes (Dec 26, 2000)

Joe3 said:


> Yes, you got me, I thought it was clear that I was talking about people who own Tivos and not the proportion of all people using OTA. The poll show a desire for OTA that would be greater than the overall population in my option.
> 
> For many of us, we are waiting for the combination of OTA and cable. Personally, it is not because I can't afford to pay for 200 channels that I don't watch, but I notice a better depth and clarity, and deeper color coming from the OTA signals than I do with my cable provider.


The poll does not show us that. The poll is not asking what we want/prefer in the next DVR, the poll is asking what we think the next DVR will be.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

SnakeEyes said:


> The poll does not show us that. The poll is not asking what we want/prefer in the next DVR, the poll is asking what we think the next DVR will be.


What the poll is asking and how people vote isn't always the same.


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## Troy J B (Sep 27, 2003)

I picked 6-tuner digital cable only model, because that's what I want.
I expect they will also release a 4-tuner DVR (cable & OTA support) model.


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## SnakeEyes (Dec 26, 2000)

innocentfreak said:


> What the poll is asking and how people vote isn't always the same.


Correct. However, either an assumption is being on how people are voting with no evidence to support that assumption or the previous poster misread the poll.


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## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

I don't really care if it is 4 or 6, but I do hope to get something that will work with an OTA antenna.


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## dustyz (May 10, 2013)

I went with the 6 tuner model, but I'm hoping for the 4 tuner OTA/cable model.

I just purchased my Tivo Premiere in February. I dropped cable/satellite not because I couldn't afford it, or because I'm poor, but because I couldn't justify the expense. It would hit over $50 regularly, without any movie channels, without a DVR, and only one receiver. If I didn't call DirecTV every 6 months to get the rate reduced, it would gradually move up to $70. It's crazy.

So, the Tivo has been a life saver. I bought an antenna... pick up a good 20+ channels in rural KY, from stations 50+ miles away, and have access to both netflix and my Amazon videos. If a new series pops up on cable, I download the first episode from Amazon, push it to the Tivo, and decide if I want to purchase the series. Even when doing so, with the 3 or 4 cable shows we do subscribe to, our TV bill is cut nearly in half. Plus, unlike our previous setup, I can push videos from our collection straight to the Tivo with pytivo running from a Raspberry Pi. That is awesome.

My point is, I wouldn't have a Tivo if it weren't for the OTA feature. We just don't need it. Honestly tho, I don't need 4 tuners either. I am fine with the current OTA Premiere. However...

My biggest hope, with the next generation of devices, is the hardware and UI gets a major boost. The Guide is great, a little slow sometimes, but tolerable. The UI for netflix and youtube is horrible. We don't want a Roku, or have a Blu-Ray player to supplement the feature, we'd love for Tivo to offer that. I know it's difficult to be the all-in-one device Tivo wants it to be, but they are close to having something really amazing. (I'd love to see a ESPN3 app included too, while we are on the topic.)


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

dustyz said:


> My biggest hope, with the next generation of devices, is the hardware and UI gets a major boost. The Guide is great, a little slow sometimes, but tolerable. The UI for netflix and youtube is horrible. We don't want a Roku, or have a Blu-Ray player to supplement the feature, we'd love for Tivo to offer that. I know it's difficult to be the all-in-one device Tivo wants it to be, but they are close to having something really amazing. (I'd love to see a ESPN3 app included too, while we are on the topic.)


If all the other speculation is wrong this is the one thing that will happen. The Mini uses a chip which is much faster then the current Premiere units. The companion chip to the one in the Mini, the one designed for a full blown DVR, is even faster still. I expect the UI to be much snappier in the next gen hardware. In fact if I'm right I might upgrade my Elite to a new unit just for that. Even if all other features are exactly the same.


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## wco81 (Dec 28, 2001)

When are these next-gen DVRs expected?

One feature they should look at is place-shifting functionality, with obviously mobile apps.

Better yet, if the mobile apps. would let you record or cache the content, you wouldn't need the Tivo Stream silliness.


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## CAAvidTivoUser (May 9, 2013)

I think a 6 tuner would be great as I receive a ton of channels and cannot watch everything.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

wco81 said:


> When are these next-gen DVRs expected?


According to the FCC filing they're trying to get them out before the holiday season this year.

Historically TiVo has released DVRs either in March or September, so I'm guessing they're shooting for September.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> According to the FCC filing they're trying to get them out before the holiday season this year.
> 
> Historically TiVo has released DVRs either in March or September, so I'm guessing they're shooting for September.


That would be great!! If so i know what my birthday present to myself will be.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

As long as they're faster I'm getting one regardless. I love having 4 tuners but the speed of the UI on my Elite is miserable. I don't care if there are any other features, as long as the speed is at least as fast as the Mini I'm buying.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I am definitely in for one, but I mainly need to upgrade my mother's house from TiVo HDs so she will get my Elite and a Mini. 

If I didn't need to upgrade, I actually don't know if I would immediately. Don't get me wrong 6 tuners, hopefully more space, and a faster TiVo would be nice, but I don't feel a need to upgrade. I think if I didn't need it now I would probably just wait.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

If our cable system was all digital I'd give my Elite to my Sister, but trying to explain to her why it can't record some channels because they are analog only just creates a support nightmare for me. So I'll likely just sell it to subsidize the cost of the new unit.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> As long as they're faster I'm getting one regardless. I love having 4 tuners but the speed of the UI on my Elite is miserable. I don't care if there are any other features, as long as the speed is at least as fast as the Mini I'm buying.


C'mon it's not that bad. Is it as snappy as it should be? No, but it's by no means a miserable experience for normal DVR functions. It's not tremendously worse than my old HDs with the SDUI. The web apps (expect for Pandora) are pretty bad, I'll grant you.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

It's much worse then the SDUI. There are times when in the search or browse section where it will stall for 5+ seconds before displaying what it should. The basic stuff like My Shows is OK, albeit still slower, but searching and browsing is miserable and the apps are basically unusable.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> It's much worse then the SDUI. There are times when in the search or browse section where it will stall for 5+ seconds before displaying what it should. The basic stuff like My Shows is OK, albeit still slower, but searching and browsing is miserable and the apps are basically unusable.


 +1M. The Mini is a good indication of how the UI responsiveness should be, so much so that I use my Mini as a front end to my Elite. I can't wait to dump my Elite in favor of new hardware. My 2 tuner Premiere I can just about tolerate, but not the Elite. I can understand some people don't have a problem with sluggishness, but it is a pet peeve of mine.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Well as I said, for everyday activities like recording/playback, SP/ARWL/ToDo list mgmt etc. it works pretty much the same as the old HD's SDUI. To me that means it's not a miserable experience because that's what I'm using the most. I agree that search can bog but I don't use it that often, nor do I have 100s of SPs or recordings stored on it. And I agree the apps pretty much all suck, speed-wise.

It's like everything Tivo, you either have a little patience for their code and length of time it takes for anything or you don't. And it probably will get better with new hardware, but it's sad that my less than 1-year old Elite would need a refresh.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

slowbiscuit said:


> And it probably will get better with new hardware, but it's sad that my less than 1-year old Elite would need a refresh.


Well part of the problem is the Elite/P4/P4XL needed a hardware refresh when they were released. Most of the hardware in all Premieres (excluding hard drives) has been around since 2009 or earlier. If the Premiere was only a DVR and the HDUI worked well I might understand waiting 4 years for a refresh but TiVo clearly wanted the Premiere line of DVRs to be "The One Box" solution for people and they have known for years that the Premiere's hardware was not up to the task of providing a good streaming experiences and was only marginally acceptable in providing an HDUI experience. The people who decided to wait this long for a hardware refresh should be fired.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

atmuscarella said:


> Well part of the problem is the Elite/P4/P4XL needed a hardware refresh when they were released. Most of the hardware in all Premieres (excluding hard drives) has been around since 2009 or earlier. If the Premiere was only a DVR and the HDUI worked well I might understand waiting 4 years for a refresh but TiVo clearly wanted the Premiere line of DVRs to be "The One Box" solution for people and they have known for years that the Premiere's hardware was not up to the task of providing a good streaming experiences and was only marginally acceptable in providing an HDUI experience. The people who decided to wait this long for a hardware refresh should be fired.


I really thought with the Premiere we would see refreshes done more often other than just storage.


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## buscuitboy (Aug 8, 2005)

*WE HAVE A WINNER*....sort of.

With the new TiVo ROAMIO line released today, it looks like poll options #2 & #3 are the correct ones.....

I thought for sure they wouldn't have an OTA model of any kind, but glad to see I was proven wrong. 

Now the real question is whether the dynamic tuning (for minis) is currently present in these series 5 models or if it will be "coming soon". I would have also liked to see a clock on the front display like my old Series 3 (OLED), but that didn't happen. Oh well & its not a deal killer though.

Welcome aboard ROAMIO!!!!


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Wouldn't that be #2 and #4?


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## buscuitboy (Aug 8, 2005)

I actually did originally put option #2 & #4, but as you can see, I edited the post cause I was then thinking its maybe 4 digital tuners and then 2 OTA tuners (6 "hybrid" tuners) that can be used together, but maybe not and its one or the other. If this is the case, then I stand corrected and #2 & #4 are the right answers.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Guess my guess was pretty good 

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9630464#post9630464


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

I just voted. I'm not so good at predictions, but I'm usually able to give a sound post-diction.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

My only misstep in my predication was I thought all units would have MoCa. I'm kind of shocked that the 4 tuner unit doesn't. Maybe the combo cable/OTA tuners they used wouldn't allow it.

Although to be fair mine wasn't really a prediction. It was based on a lot of information I'd gathered from spending way to much time on this site.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> My only misstep in my predication was I thought all units would have MoCa. I'm kind of shocked that the 4 tuner unit doesn't. Maybe the combo cable/OTA tuners they used wouldn't allow it.
> 
> Although to be fair mine wasn't really a prediction. It was based on a lot of information I'd gathered from spending way to much time on this site.


That must be it. Otherwise, it wouldn't have made any sense to not have MoCA.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

Dan203 said:


> My only misstep in my predication was I thought all units would have MoCa. I'm kind of shocked that the 4 tuner unit doesn't. Maybe the combo cable/OTA tuners they used wouldn't allow it.
> 
> Although to be fair mine wasn't really a prediction. It was based on a lot of information I'd gathered from spending way to much time on this site.


Well (with only one coax input) MoCA _certainly_ couldn't have worked while the TiVo was connected to an OTA antenna.

Maybe that's why it got left out/disabled. Considered too confusing to have it work on one mode (cable) but not the other (OTA)... <shrug>


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Jonathan_S said:


> Well (with only one coax input) MoCA _certainly_ couldn't have worked while the TiVo was connected to an OTA antenna.
> 
> Maybe that's why it got left out/disabled. Considered too confusing to have it work on one mode (cable) but not the other (OTA)... <shrug>


I sense FCC compliance. I've never seen an OTA/Cable device that could support MoCA... How would they ensure that the MoCA isn't active if it's connected to an antenna, but in cable mode?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Bigg said:


> How would they ensure that the MoCA isn't active if it's connected to an antenna, but in cable mode?


Software. On the Elite you can turn MoCa on/off via software and on the Roamio you choose OTA/Cable via software. So it seems easy enough that they could combine those and only allow MoCa to be turned on if the TiVo was setup in cable mode.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> Software. On the Elite you can turn MoCa on/off via software and on the Roamio you choose OTA/Cable via software. So it seems easy enough that they could combine those and only allow MoCa to be turned on if the TiVo was setup in cable mode.


What if someone put it in cable mode while it was connected to an antenna?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

You could do that now by connecting your antenna to the cable port of an Elite/XL4. It's not TiVo's job to prevent misuse.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> You could do that now by connecting your antenna to the cable port of an Elite/XL4. It's not TiVo's job to prevent misuse.


Less likely though, since it can't be used for antenna at all.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

My point was that I doubt it was any sort of FCC regulation that prevented this.

My guess is that the Broadcom chipset used in the basic does not support MoCa bridging, only basic MoCa connection similar to the Mini. Adding a MoCa bridge as a separate chip would have been too expensive and having MoCa without bridging would have been confusing and a lot less useful, so they just turned it off and sold it without MoCa.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> My point was that I doubt it was any sort of FCC regulation that prevented this.
> 
> My guess is that the Broadcom chipset used in the basic does not support MoCa bridging, only basic MoCa connection similar to the Mini. Adding a MoCa bridge as a separate chip would have been too expensive and having MoCa without bridging would have been confusing and a lot less useful, so they just turned it off and sold it without MoCa.


Could be.


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