# New Netflix App



## rainwater

It looks like Netflix finally rolled out profiles support to the Roamio app. We can finally make use of profiles in our house!

I also saw a huge banner ad for Hemlock Grove at the top. I've never seen such an ad in Netflix before but I didn't mind it so much (although it did take up half of the screen) since you can just scroll down to your list.


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## monkeydust

Wow, right you are!


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## mrizzo80

Must be a staggered rollout. I don't see anything different at the moment.


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## Dan203

I see profiles on mine. Maybe you just need to force a call?


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## rainwater

So far it seems they only show the ad the first time you login with a profile. I haven't seen the ad since.


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## Dan203

I didn't see the ad on mine. Although I already watched the first episode of Hemlock Grove, it was horrible so I never watched the rest.


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## rainwater

Dan203 said:


> I didn't see the ad on mine. Although I already watched the first episode of Hemlock Grove, it was horrible so I never watched the rest.


I switched to a different profile and it showed Orange is the New Black across the entire top and I've already watched that series (although on a different profile). I'm not sure what triggers the ad though.


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## anthonymoody

Excellent. Have it here on my Plus finally. Thanks for the heads up! My family uses profiles extensively so this is great!


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## mikeyts

TiVo Roamio now gets my vote for the best Netflix player of several devices I have with Netflix players attached to TVs (PS3, Roku 3, Roku 2 XS, TiVo Premiere, TiVo Series3, Xbox 360, WD TV Live, 2 Panasonic and one Sony BDP and the various ways of playing Netflix on this PC). The PS3 previously held that title and my old TiVo Premiere featured one of the worst.

Navigation of the UI is fairly snappy; it starts up in 8 seconds and starts streams in about 3 seconds, immediately jumping to the highest available bit rate video encode and usually sticking there. It features a version of the stream info overlay that I really like (toggled on and off with INFO) which even has an indication of bit rate so you can tell which "720 HD" or "1080 Super HD" encode you're looking at.

TiVos can also output Netflix at 1080p24, a fairly rare capability.

It replaces my Roku 3 as my Netflix viewing platform of choice.


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## aaronwt

Yes, the same here. My Roamio Pro and my two TiVo Minis are my main Netflix players now. Although I will still use my Roku2 and Roku3 boxes on occasion. And of course for Netflix 3D content I still need to use my Sony 3D BD players. But overall the new Netflix players in the Romaio and Minis are superb.


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## ustavio

As of today you have profiles up and running? Curious. I and others had them briefly and lost them. Also (still) experiencing reboots when using Netflix. Also curious (when it is working properly) pressing info does not display the bit rate, resolution or PAR items you shared in your photo. 

I have a Pro with all the updates, MoCA connection, Fios 35/35 Mbps hooked to a Sony Bravia via HDMI and have had nothing but issues lately. I don't have them via BluRay but it is slower (even wired) and less snappy. However, no issues. 

I checked out the Netflix versions:
Sony is an older SDK 3.1.4 release 1106457 (Sept 11 2013)
UI Build - release 38p
Tivo is SDK 4.0.2 release 1933285/nrdjs 
UI Build - release 569p

There are other different items listed in both but seem to primarily relate to Sony and/or Tivo.

Other than the recurring Netflix reboot and UI issues (and now lack of bit rate, resolution and PAR) everything else works great. A recent odd channel line up conflict may be Fios and Tribune not being on the same page. However, it is curious that it would happen at the same time. 

Tivo CR draws a blank. Have yet to try Netflix. Just trying to sleuth this out. Any thoughts? How does one get in contact with Tivo Margaret?


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## mikeyts

ustavio said:


> Also curious (when it is working properly) pressing info does not display the bit rate, resolution or PAR items you shared in your photo.


The text it should display is similar to the smaller text in the corner of that example. It's a snap of "Example Short 23.976", a test clip with bit rate/resolution information burned into each of its constituent video encodes, useful as a sanity test of what encode you're getting and how stably (huh--that's actually a word ) on devices whose Netflix players don't have that stream info overlay. I just took a bad picture of what it looks like on TiVo with my phone (from _Black Hawk Down_):



Spoiler












The text is out of focus but you can make out the format of the info. The other devices I have with this display have it jammed up in the upper left corner; TiVo's is further down the screen.

I see that Profiles (and that banner content ad) has disappeared for the moment. I guess that Netflix is farting around with it; maybe they think that it's responsible for the crashes and have backed out of that feature temporarily. TiVo CS is not going to be able to help. The entire UI is running in HTML5 code using the Webkit rendering engine (I've been told that TiVo's platform for running it is a port of Opera); Netflix downloads it dynamically (it starts up so fast on TiVo--8 seconds as opposed to 30 on the PS3 and over a minute on one of my BDPs--that they're probably caching most of it, checking the versions and replacing pieces when necessary). They change it as casually as they change their web pages and TiVo has as much control over it as the web browser maintainers have over those web pages, which is to say, none.


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## bbrown9

I was getting crashes before the profiles showed up and had another one last night after the profiles went away.


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## mikeyts

bbrown9 said:


> I was getting crashes before the profiles showed up and had another one last night after the profiles went away.


If they're attempting to diagnose the crashes they may want to simplify what they're working with as much as possible.


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## ustavio

Thanks fellow Tivoids. I down loaded the "Example Short..." and get the same SuperHD and bit rate (5800 kbps)/resolution readings(1920x1080p) PAR 1:1 with my Tivo Pro. Not so much with the BluRay (by connecting an ethernet cord from the Tivo to the BluRay). BluRay wireless and wired both give a smaller bit rate. Although it is "newish" it's still not a gigabyte processor. No SuperHD came up. Perhaps futzing about with the network/system settings will make a difference. It's an acceptable alternative when in need of a Netflix fix (say that 3 times in a row) but not smokin' hot like the Tivo version (when it works right). It DOES give me profiles and doesn't reboot but once one gets used to the Porsche, it's hard to go back to the Fiat . 

Two questions: 1. How does one know when it's pumpin' at 1080p/24 (I have both it and 1080p ticked in Tivo settings. 2. How does one get in contact with Tivo Margaret? (I'm new in the neighborhood).

Again many thanks for the feedback.


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## markp99

My TiVo shows a quick pop-up in the corner when the source changes - shows "1080p" when SuperHD is coming-in.


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## aaronwt

Just hit the info button and it will show the bitrate and resolution of the current streaming title.


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## jscozz

I don't see profiles yet... is there password support also, or just unsecured selecting of a profile? I assume the later, since I see no way on the Netflix web site to set a password for a profile.


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## Dan203

Mine went away after a couple days. They must have released the app prematurely and revoked it.


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## mrizzo80

So is the profile-enabled Netflix app HTML5? I thought we determined the Netflix app that shipped with the Roamio in August was still Flash-based.


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## mikeyts

mrizzo80 said:


> So is the profile-enabled Netflix app HTML5? I thought we determined the Netflix app that shipped with the Roamio in August was still Flash-based.


How was that "determined" ? From this TiVo.com support page:


> Netflix on Roamio Series DVRs
> 
> *Roamio Series DVRs use a new HTML version of Netflix, as opposed to the Flash version used by previous DVRs.* Netflix will function the same way as before, with a few notable updates:
> 
> DIAL: The Discover and Launch (DIAL) protocol is a set of open-source standards used for the new HTML version of Netflix. DIAL allows you to find Netflix videos on your mobile device and open them on your DIAL-compatible TiVo devices. To use this feature, your mobile device and TiVo device must be on the same network; however, they do not have to be paired.
> 
> Netflix Kids: When you launch the HTML version of Netflix, you are presented with a choice between Netflix and Netflix Kids. This child-friendly collection features videos that are appropriate for viewers age 12 and under.


(Emphasis added). I've been told by a friend who works at TiVo on Opera SDK-based apps that they dumped Adobe AIR because Adobe stopped developing it shortly after TiVo adopted it for Premiere.


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## mrizzo80

Someone around here saw a config file that showed the YouTube app to use HTML5 terminology (I don't remember the exact technical verbiage: "app engine" or "container object" maybe) while the Netflix app was still showing up as Flash.

This review from The Verge (though it depends on how you interpret it) seems to indicate only YouTube is HTML5 right now. http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/20/4638390/tivo-roamio-pro-review

But if TiVo's support page indicates HTML5...


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## mikeyts

mrizzo80 said:


> This review from The Verge (though it depends on how you interpret it) seems to indicate only YouTube is HTML5 right now. http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/20/4638390/tivo-roamio-pro-review


From that article:



> The Netflix app is the shining star of the bunch; it's now much faster, and runs on Netflix's latest platform so it'll get updates as Netflix rolls them out.


Netflix's latest platform is most definitely HTML5 for Webkit. It now has all of the features of the other HTML5 Netflix players that the old Flash one never got: scroll-by-three with FF and REW, People Search and Netflix Kids. Its debug info is multi-page like the PS3's (UP UP DOWN DOWN LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT UP UP UP UP, an homage to the ancient "Konami cheat code") and the version information displayed there is similar to that displayed on other devices. They popped that banner content ad and profiles in and out without any sort of discernible update operation.


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## ustavio

Well, as of this very moment Netflix has not caused its daily reboot. I've been subjecting it to some serious mega viewing to see if it will. I still do not have profiles or banner ads. The Netflix and Kids choices still greet me when tune in so there's that. I didn't get any Tivo updates other than standard service connections. They DID fix a wacky guide glitch that had AMCHD and AMCHDP both occupying the same space at the same time. 

As long as Netflix doesn't reboot regularly (especially while recording multiple shows) I can live with the lack of profiles until they can sort it all out. Fortunately it's locked on MY profile so the wife and kiddies have to use one of the other platforms we own to access their shows. This could be a good thing  "Sorry honey, we just can't watch (insert syrupy romance show here) right now...how bout "Expendables 2".....again?


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## mikeyts

ustavio said:


> The Netflix and Kids choices still greet me when tune in so there's that.


On other devices that disappears after you choose the same one several times in a row; if you want the other one you can always get it after the player starts.


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## rainwater

mikeyts said:


> On other devices that disappears after you choose the same one several times in a row; if you want the other one you can always get it after the player starts.


Sometimes after the app updates you will get the prompt for a few days as well. But it does figure it out eventually like you said.


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## mikeyts

rainwater said:


> Sometimes after the app updates you will get the prompt for a few days as well. But it does figure it out eventually like you said.


It has now stopped asking me whether I want Netflix Kids.


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## Dan203

mikeyts said:


> It has now stopped asking me whether I want Netflix Kids.


Yeah it only does that the first couple of times.


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## mikeyts

Dan203 said:


> Yeah it only does that the first couple of times.


We were just discussing it in the past few posts. It's usually more than a couple of times; I'd estimate that it was at least 5, but it always stops after a while.


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## hefe

Mine asks if I want Netflix for kids, but it doesn't ask what profile, and it is locked on my son's profile, and I don't know how to get to mine. :|


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## mikeyts

hefe said:


> Mine asks if I want Netflix for kids, but it doesn't ask what profile, and it is locked on my son's profile, and I don't know how to get to mine. :|


Try going to netflix.com and choosing your profile there.


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## hefe

mikeyts said:


> Try going to netflix.com and choosing your profile there.


I did. Nothing changed.


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## rainwater

hefe said:


> Mine asks if I want Netflix for kids, but it doesn't ask what profile, and it is locked on my son's profile, and I don't know how to get to mine. :|


For now it will always use the main profile. For some reason we got access to the profile enabled version but for only a few days before it was pulled. Considering it seemed to work well, I would imagine we will see it back before too long.


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## hefe

Mine is the main profile.


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## DbqInChi

I second what others have said. When profile support was rolled out I selected a secondary profile to try it out. When profile support disappeared I remained stuck on that profile and have no way to switch back to the main. As such all of our queue and viewing history, which is on the main profile, is unavailable to us. Hopefully they'll get full profile support rolled back out soon, or at least allow switching in some way.


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## bbrown9

DbqInChi said:


> I second what others have said. When profile support was rolled out I selected a secondary profile to try it out. When profile support disappeared I remained stuck on that profile and have no way to switch back to the main. As such all of our queue and viewing history, which is on the main profile, is unavailable to us. Hopefully they'll get full profile support rolled back out soon, or at least allow switching in some way.


Can you log out of the app and then log back in again on your TiVo?


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## mikeyts

bbrown9 said:


> Can you log out of the app and then log back in again on your TiVo?


You're talking about going to the debug menu (UP UP DOWN DOWN LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT UP UP UP UP) and selecting "Sign out" then running the app and signing into your account again?


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## bbrown9

mikeyts said:


> You're talking about going to the debug menu (UP UP DOWN DOWN LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT UP UP UP UP) and selecting "Sign out" then running the app and signing into your account again?


Yes. I'm thinking that might reset what profile is being used to be the main profile for the account.


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## hefe

I deactivated the app in the TiVo menu, and logged in again and it went to my main profile.


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## mikeyts

hefe said:


> I deactivated the app in the TiVo menu, and logged in again and it went to my main profile.


Deactivating in the TiVo "Account and System Information" menu is no doubt exactly the same operation as logging off in the Netflix app's debug menu. Use of that debug menu in other devices is the only way to deactivate that specific device; the option in TiVo's A&SI menu is unique.


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## ustavio

Just had another reboot while watching Netflix. Of course, I was recording something (that has no other upcoming episodes) at the same time. Clearly they have not fixed this yet.


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## CrispyCritter

ustavio said:


> Just had another reboot while watching Netflix. Of course, I was recording something (that has no other upcoming episodes) at the same time. Clearly they have not fixed this yet.


I think all we can say at the moment is that they haven't fixed your problem yet. Others have said that Netflix hasn't been rebooting for them any more. So it sounds like there were more than one possible cause for the rebooting and they haven't fixed your cause yet. (One cause used to be 1080p60 was broken, and I'm pretty sure that got fixed a bit ago.)

Note that I use Netflix a lot, and haven't had any rebooting problems. That's not trying to diminish your problem, just stating that the bug is clearly due to a combination of environment and software, and it's sometimes tough to establish which particular environment issue is causing the problem if there is more than one. So you need to make sure you report it again to TiVo, because otherwise they may think they fixed your issue when they made the latest changes.


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## ustavio

CrispyCritter said:


> I think all we can say at the moment is that they haven't fixed your problem yet. Others have said that Netflix hasn't been rebooting for them any more. So it sounds like there were more than one possible cause for the rebooting and they haven't fixed your cause yet. (One cause used to be 1080p60 was broken, and I'm pretty sure that got fixed a bit ago.)
> 
> Note that I use Netflix a lot, and haven't had any rebooting problems. That's not trying to diminish your problem, just stating that the bug is clearly due to a combination of environment and software, and it's sometimes tough to establish which particular environment issue is causing the problem if there is more than one. So you need to make sure you report it again to TiVo, because otherwise they may think they fixed your issue when they made the latest changes.


Thanks for your post. I'll contact Tivo once again but last time was told it was a Netflix problem and, of course, Netflix has said it is a Tivo problem. Perhaps it just solar flares of something.....


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## Dan203

I've been watching Netflix a lot lately and it's only rebooted on me once, ever. Do you have a slow internet/Network connection that might be causing the app to drop resolutions?


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## ustavio

Dan203 said:


> I've been watching Netflix a lot lately and it's only rebooted on me once, ever. Do you have a slow internet/Network connection that might be causing the app to drop resolutions?


I have Fios 35Mbps up and down. I have latest Fios Actiontec Gigabyte router and a direct MoCa connection.Tivo is hooked to a Sony Bravia via HDMI with no green switches. Everything is about as strong and solid as can be. I have no problems with LAN, Wireless or another Netflix platform (Btu-Ray, PS3). I even have Netflix profiles on other platforms. Everything was working fine at one time but with all the different updates and/or "fixes", something hiccuped somewhere. I've even signed in and out, deactivated, reactivated, rebooted, reset. I even hopped on one leg and went booga booga....(well, maybe not that one just yet).


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## Dan203

Weird. Are you using the DIAL feature a lot? Or selecting programs from the main UI?


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## moyekj

Also of relevance is what outputs you have set on the TiVo. There was a bug previously with crashes when 1080p/24 enabled, so if you do have that turned on then try turning it off to see if the reboots go away. At same time I would also turn off 1080p while experimenting if you have that turned on.


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## Dan203

I have mine set to only allow 1080p and 1080p/24. Only ever had the reboot once. I see my TV switch to 1080p/24 mode when most of my Netflix streams start.


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## moyekj

Dan203 said:


> I have mine set to only allow 1080p and 1080p/24. Only ever had the reboot once. I see my TV switch to 1080p/24 mode when most of my Netflix streams start.


 It may be HDMI handshaking related which can vary from TV to TV. Since there was known problems with this before I still think it's worth turning off those output modes to see if it helps.
(I do have 1080p/24 turned on for my Roamio Pro and have not had reboots, but haven't been using Netflix much lately so not a good comparison point).


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## DbqInChi

bbrown9 said:


> Yes. I'm thinking that might reset what profile is being used to be the main profile for the account.


Great tip! I didn't know how to get to the debug screen, but once I did so, signed out and back in I was restored to my primary profile. Thanks!!


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## ustavio

Dan203 said:


> Weird. Are you using the DIAL feature a lot? Or selecting programs from the main UI?


Not sure what the DIAL feature is. I just go to Netflix in menu (where Hulu, Amazon etc are located), then once Netflix UI loads, choose my show and watch it until a reboot occurs (or doesn't).


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## ustavio

moyekj said:


> Also of relevance is what outputs you have set on the TiVo. There was a bug previously with crashes when 1080p/24 enabled, so if you do have that turned on then try turning it off to see if the reboots go away. At same time I would also turn off 1080p while experimenting if you have that turned on.


Reboots have occurred with just 1080i, 1080p, 1080p + 1080p/24 and/or all of the above together. Of course, it's unknown to me if I had one or the other in play when that particular aspect was an issue or when it is was fixed. I could have been back and forth from what worked to what didn't work and back again without knowing what's what. This shouldn't be this complicated should it? I currently have it set to 1080p + 1080p/24.


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## ustavio

moyekj said:


> It may be HDMI handshaking related which can vary from TV to TV. Since there was known problems with this before I still think it's worth turning off those output modes to see if it helps.
> (I do have 1080p/24 turned on for my Roamio Pro and have not had reboots, but haven't been using Netflix much lately so not a good comparison point).


Curious thought. My 120 MHz Sony Bravia has settings in IT'S menu for:
1. Picture mode: Vivid, Standard Custom - (Mine is set to Standard)
2. Noise Reduction: "Select to reduce picture noise level" - High, Medium, Low, Off (Mine is set to Low)
3. MPEG Noise Reduction- "to reduce picture noise in MPEG compressed videos" - High, Medium, Low, Off- (Mine is set to Low)
4. Motionflow - "Produces smoother picture movement and reduces picture blur" - High, Standard, Off -(Mine is set to Standard)
5.CineMotion - "provides improved picture movement and reduces picture blur and graininess for film based content" - Auto 1 for standard use, Auto 2 to represent original film based content as is and Off. (Mine is set to Auto 1).

The Picture Mode "displays the options selected in Scene Select which optimizes picture and sound quality by selecting from: 
Cinema (delivers picture scenes and sound just as those in a theater)
Sports (delivers realistic pictures and sound just like those in a stadium)
Photo
Music
Game
Graphics
General (No optimized picture and sound quality for any scene)
Auto ( Automatically opti8mizes picture and sound quality according to the input source)

Mine is set to Auto which chooses General (always).

Not sure where I'm going with this but perhaps some of these settings are in conflict with whatever mode the Tivo is putting out?

Also, I may or may not have mentioned in my numerous posts and or threads that I have a Fios set top box and the Tivo Pro running through a digital GTE power pass all ports 5-2300 MHz splitter. The Fios STB functions fine but only allows for 1080i as it's maximum resolution (with or without splitter). Tivo quality is better at 1080p + 1080p/24 or just 1090p and similar at 1080i.

I have nothing that "kicks in" and notifies me that what I am viewing on Netflix or just regular Tivo viewing is 1080p/24. However, if I use the Sony TV remote display it indicates that 1080p/24 is engaged. If I untick this in the Tivo, it shows just 1080p (as it should).

Again, not sure whether or not:
1. Different settings on the Bravia menu effect or conflict with the Tivo settings.
2. The fact that there are now some premium channels (Cinemax, HBO) and Sony Channel and MGM channel that have switched from MPEG 2 to H.264 encryption...are a factor.

I have no reason to suspect the splitter but who knows. It works quite well on my Tivo HD and Fios STD but they are both 1080i to a older 60MHz Sony Bravia. The Tivo gets it's Ethernet data via an Actiontec MoCa adapter. There are similar but less extensive Sony TV menu settings that don't seem to affect anything. I get Netflix on that rig via a Btu-Ray Netflix app (that does have profiles).

I did notice that in the last few days the Netflix app on the Tivo Roamio showed a UI change from UI build release 569p to 575p.

Anyway, this is a long winded post but If everyone else seems to be have few if any problems, perhaps it is how my Bravia is set up? Maybe there is someone else out there who has a Sony Bravia (mine is a 40EX500) with similar issues?

I don't think there is anything wrong with the Tivo itself (in fact I LOVE it) because everything else seems to work just great.

One wonders if it is related to: HTML5, SDK versions, Sony TV settings, Tivo settings, Netflix, maybe even Actiontec/Fios firewall settings..... or what. I'm not the kind to give up, unfortunately, I am the kind who will obsess on find a solution (which will of course, drive the family batty  )


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## moyekj

To find out if HDMI is causing the problem you could try connecting TiVo via component to TV and disconnecting HDMI. There seems to have been multiple HDMI related issues & fixes with Roamios thus far.


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## Dan203

ustavio said:


> Not sure what the DIAL feature is. I just go to Netflix in menu (where Hulu, Amazon etc are located), then once Netflix UI loads, choose my show and watch it until a reboot occurs (or doesn't).


DIAL is the feature that allows you to pick shows on your iPad, or whatever, and then have them play on the TiVo. Doesn't sound like you use it.


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## DeltaOne

ustavio said:


> 4. Motionflow - "Produces smoother picture movement and reduces picture blur" - High, Standard, Off -(Mine is set to Standard)
> 5.CineMotion - "provides improved picture movement and reduces picture blur and graininess for film based content" - Auto 1 for standard use, Auto 2 to represent original film based content as is and Off. (Mine is set to Auto 1).


I'm late to this thread and don't fully understand your problem, but a friend of mine with an Apple TV and a new Samsung flat panel has trouble and we believe it's related to special processing features like Motionflow and CineMotion. I'd try turning them both off and doing some testing.


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## anthonymoody

Anyone know why Netflix doesn't always appear at the bottom of the list of My Shows? Usually the first time I go to the list it's not there. If I back out and go back in it's there. Anyone else have this issue?


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## ustavio

moyekj said:


> To find out if HDMI is causing the problem you could try connecting TiVo via component to TV and disconnecting HDMI. There seems to have been multiple HDMI related issues & fixes with Roamios thus far.


I switched out the HDMI with another one for the moment and will try your suggestion as soon as I can find the dang component cables. I haven't used them for ages. They're probably in the garage somewhere with that old hand cranked RCA record player......


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## ustavio

DeltaOne said:


> I'm late to this thread and don't fully understand your problem, but a friend of mine with an Apple TV and a new Samsung flat panel has trouble and we believe it's related to special processing features like Motionflow and CineMotion. I'd try turning them both off and doing some testing.


Thanks. I have also wondered if this might be a factor. I have now turned off Motionflow and CineMotion. I'll do a marathon of something like 24 or Alias and see if the issue persists. Let me know if your friend has any success.


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## ustavio

Thank you all for your ideas. You've been far more helpful than Tivo or Netflix to this point. The quest continues......


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## ustavio

Another Netflix reboot. Followed all the suggestions and it seems nothing works. I've put a lot of time and energy into this issue. How can this be so complicated. I could use another platform to watch Netflix but why keep a product that has either defective hardware, or software or Apps? Unfortunately, I have a LOT of recordings that I need to off load but I'm just discouraged enough to do it and return the Roamio. I NEVER had this much trouble with my Tivo HD, or any other electronic product for that matter.

Sure wish TivoMargret would reply to my email (hint hint). Just venting. The thought of transferring the plethora of recordings (went on quite a binge there for awhile) makes my hair hurt.


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## Dan203

Did you try changing to component? That would rule out an HDMI issue completely.


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## ustavio

Dan203 said:


> Did you try changing to component? That would rule out an HDMI issue completely.


I have not been able to find them as of yet. I suppose if worse comes to worse, I can go out and get some. Their use does pose some questions.
1. If they do work and it is an HDMI issue, what then? Do I need a new Television? Replace the Tivo?
2. If they do not work and it is not an HDMI issue, what then? A new television? Replace the Tivo?

There are sporadic reports of others who have this issue and everyone seems to either have a different solution or is just willing to live with it. It would sure be nice to know exactly what the cause is, and I'm willing to go the distance but gee whiz, from the cable card nonsense early on to this on going annoyance, I can't believe how much time and energy I've put into this. I also find it hard to believe that something as simple as using Netflix on a high end Tivo is such a problem. It's mind numbing.

Well, I dread wading into the "garage of no return" to hunt for the ancient artifact known as a component cable.....but I have now the Indy Jones hat on my head.......so off I go.


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## Dan203

If you get the reboot with the component cables then I would replace the TiVo. If you don't then I would check to see if there is a firmware update available for your TV. Some can install them easily via an internet connection, others require you to download something and put it on a USB key. Note: if you do have to use the USB key method be careful. I tried that once with my Sharp TV and the first attempt seemed to completely brick the TV. After some research I found that the key had to be formatted as FAT16 for the upgrade to work. Most USB keys are formatted as FAT32 by default. Anyway after formatting the key properly I was able to get the update to install and the TV working again, but it was a tense few minutes when I thought I had broken the TV.


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## ustavio

Okay, I found a "green, blue, red" bundle but not the rest  It's been so long that I forget. Isn't component supposed to include five cables...another red and a white? 

Oh, just checked email and TivoMargret just responded and she acknowledged there was an still an issue and they are working with Netflix. It should be fixed in an upcoming update.....although no timetable is given. Maybe I'll wait?

BTW, my Sony TV has to update via USB stick.There are no current updates. I do recall the white knuckle experience with the last one!


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## Dan203

Might as well try the component cable. The Red/Blue/Green is all you need for video. If you need audio to the TV too then you'll need to either use optical or a red/white cable. (could also be a yellow/red/white and just leave the yellow dangling)


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## mikeyts

ustavio said:


> Okay, I found a "green, blue, red" bundle but not the rest  It's been so long that I forget. Isn't component supposed to include five cables...another red and a white?


You're thinking of 5 cable RGBHV, analog red, green and blue signals with horizontal and video sync with RCA or BNC connectors. It's what's in a VGA cable, along with some discrete control signal wires.


----------



## ustavio

Dan203 said:


> Might as well try the component cable. The Red/Blue/Green is all you need for video. If you need audio to the TV too then you'll need to either use optical or a red/white cable. (could also be a yellow/red/white and just leave the yellow dangling)


Okey Dokey, swapped out the HDMI for Component and (drum roll)....it rebooted 5 minutes into 24 on Netflix. That's the bad news. The GOOD news is that I had an email exchange with Margret and she said that it was NOT my set up. Just to be certain, they are going to look at my logs and let me know if something is askew on my end. However, she gave every indication that it is definitely a Tivo/Netflix issue, is currently being worked on and to expect an update to remedy the issue this month.

I might just get a new Sony 84" 4K Ultra HD to celebrate. Er, wait....at second glance the price is not $2500, it's $25,000. Euphoria created a temporal feedback loop in my brain and I missed a few zeros... Don't think my wife will go for it...unless we can convince one of our kids to forgo college.....hmmmmmm, thinking.....


----------



## Dan203

If it crashed with component then it's got to be your TiVo. Man that sucks. Hopefully they can fix it by updating the app, but I have to reitterate that I've only ever seen my TiVo reboot once while watching Netflix and I've watched at least 100 hours of content via Netflix since getting it. So by contrast what you're seeing is not normal. If it's not fixed by day 89 I'd seriously consider exchanging it under warranty.


----------



## bbrown9

I've been seeing the reboots too. Not as frequently as ustavio, but frequently enough for it to be a problem. I avoid watching it on my Roamio if there is a recording in progress for that reason. I have even resorted to using the broken app on my Premiere Elite to avoid the reboots.

I'm glad they expect to have a fix for this soon. Thanks for that update Ustavio.


----------



## ustavio

Dan203 said:


> If it crashed with component then it's got to be your TiVo. Man that sucks. Hopefully they can fix it by updating the app, but I have to reiterate that I've only ever seen my TiVo reboot once while watching Netflix and I've watched at least 100 hours of content via Netflix since getting it. So by contrast what you're seeing is not normal. If it's not fixed by day 89 I'd seriously consider exchanging it under warranty.


I hear what you're saying. Believe me, I'm watching the clock on this. I do have a 3 year replacement warranty with Best Buy so I'm not worried about the box itself. Whether or not Tivo will transfer the lifetime subscription past a certain point is another matter. In that light, however, since that one reboot on component, it has not done so again and I've been stress testing Netflix with back to back episodes of everything and anything (even while recording on all tuners at the same time). It could have just been an electronic spaz attack or the ham handed way I installed all those bloody cables in a tight space. Who knows. I'll continue the non-stop stress test to see if I can provoke another reboot, but so far so good.

While Margret didn't give me any details, I get the impression that it is the Netflix app (which is distinctly unique to Tivo) and how it interfaces with the Tivo platform (which is also distinctly unique). It is my hope that the update will fix it once and for all....for everyone. Perhaps we'll get profiles back to boot. It seems to me that Roamio owners are beta testers of sorts. I doubt there is anyone who has had flawless performance on every level. Especially when I peruse the forum. There are still a lot of hiccups but Tivo seems to be working harder than usual to address them, which is a good thing. The Roamio (and Mini) strategy has exciting prospects but not if they can't deliver solid hardware and software. If they can't get Netflix to work right, it may not bode well for their plans to introduce other apps (I do recall reading about a Pandora issue that others had that I did not),

I'll keep you posted and thanks for your input. It is greatly appreciated.


----------



## moyekj

May also depend on what specific content is being watched. If you provide an example show you are watching perhaps others can try it to see what happens.


----------



## bradleys

He said he is watching 24, so we can give that a try.

My girls have been watching a lot of netflix lately - A whole season of The Next Great Baker, and some odd anime stuff that I don't pay any attention too... 

We haven't experienced any reboots on the Roamio.


----------



## moyekj

bradleys said:


> He said he is watching 24, so we can give that a try.


 OK, but specific season and episode which caused a reboot would be more helpful especially for a series like that with many episodes.

I watched 4 episodes of 1st season of "The Killing" yesterday on my Roamio Pro without issue. All of them started playing at 1080p/24 and never switched from that and looked great. Netflix on Roamio Pro has been a delightful experience for me thus far.


----------



## rainwater

The issue is most likely a network issue. It is easy to test. Pull the coax (or phone line) on your modem while you are streaming Netflix and watch the box reboot. I'm still thinking the Netflix app just can't handle any fluctuations in the network.


----------



## ustavio

moyekj said:


> OK, but specific season and episode which caused a reboot would be more helpful especially for a series like that with many episodes.
> 
> I watched 4 episodes of 1st season of "The Killing" yesterday on my Roamio Pro without issue. All of them started playing at 1080p/24 and never switched from that and looked great. Netflix on Roamio Pro has been a delightful experience for me thus far.


Interesting thought. Just off the top of my head, it seems that every reboot occurred watching 24. We've been doing a marathon. I can't recall a reboot while watching anything else. Narrowing it down to a specific season and/or episode would drive me insane. Reboots occurred before and after updates, before and after profiles and back to no profiles, during recording, not during recording, different times of night and/or day, sometimes before, during or after a Tivo connection or VCM hit. They even occurred with and without my tin foil hat  They are about as random and nonsensical as can be.

When not rebooting it operates like a charm and is preferred because of the 1080p/24 option. My Fios STB only delivers 1080i. It makes sense that there is an issue with the Tivo/Netflix interface and it also makes sense that it will affect some and not others due environmental factors that some have that others don't. Perhaps it is a defective box but TivoMargret seemed to think it is not that or my set up. If, after her review of my logs, she tells me I have a lemon, I'll let everyone know. As they are working on a "fix" due to come out this month, it gives me a modicum of hope. These reboots did not start until after one or another of the software updates and, perhaps, may have even been caused by a previous Netflix fix that helped some but created issues for others.

BTW, I loved first season of The Killing but season two was a bit odd. Wondering if there will be a season three.


----------



## bbrown9

I've seen it while watching Supernatural season 8 and Alias


----------



## ustavio

rainwater said:


> The issue is most likely a network issue. It is easy to test. Pull the coax (or phone line) on your modem while you are streaming Netflix and watch the box reboot. I'm still thinking the Netflix app just can't handle any fluctuations in the network.


Hmmmmm......do you mean pull the coax from the router or from the Tivo Roamio? Have you experimented with this while streaming Netflix? If so and it did, you may have something there. Did you try and pull the coax while watching regular TV as well, or during playback of a recorded show? Was there a reboot?

My Fios network is pretty solid but I'd be willing to try this and see.

The Tivo Netflix app uses HTML5 instead of Flash like my other platforms. Wonder if that fits into the mix.


----------



## ustavio

bbrown9 said:


> I've seen it while watching Supernatural season 8 and Alias


Frustrating isn't it. I never had it occur with Alias but that was pre-update mania.

Thanks for your post. The more folks who chime in will help the rest of us feel better about our circumstance. Also, one wonders how many are out there who do not even know this forum exists, much less have access to someone like TivoMargret.


----------



## Dan203

bbrown9 said:


> I've seen it while watching Supernatural season 8 and Alias


I need to watch Supernatural anyway so I'll keep an eye out for reboots.


----------



## rainwater

ustavio said:


> Hmmmmm......do you mean pull the coax from the router or from the Tivo Roamio?


From the modem (or router/modem combo if you have one). The Netflix app is very susceptible to fluctuations in the internet.


----------



## keenanSR

ustavio said:


> BTW, I loved first season of The Killing but season two was a bit odd. Wondering if there will be a season three.


Yes, and all 3 seasons are available on Netflix via streaming and/or discs.


----------



## moyekj

keenanSR said:


> Yes, and all 3 seasons are available on Netflix via streaming and/or discs.


 I started watching season 3 on TV and it was awesome. So now going back to watch 1st 2 seasons via Netflix. I did hear season 2 was not as good but season 3 returned to greatness. BTW the quality of the streams on Netflix are better than AMCHD channel delivered by Cox here, so I actually prefer watching via Netflix, especially as well since there are no commercials to skip.


----------



## keenanSR

moyekj said:


> I started watching season 3 on TV and it was awesome. So now going back to watch 1st 2 seasons via Netflix. I did hear season 2 was not as good but season 3 returned to greatness. BTW the quality of the streams on Netflix are better than AMCHD channel delivered by Cox here, so I actually prefer watching via Netflix, especially as well since there are no commercials to skip.


Season 2 was actually like a second half of S1. The show is patterned after Forbrydelsen, a Danish crime drama which ran 3 series over about 5 years. Forbrydelsen's first series ran in two 10 episode segments airing about 6 months apart. The Danish series ran 3 separate storyline in the 3 Series while the US version was only 2 stories over 3 seasons.

AMC can have a very wide variation of their picture quality, The Walking Dead can look like a VHS tape at times while Hell On Wheels had some of the very best PQ I've ever seen on TV. The shooting of The Killing in Vancouver as subbing for Seattle didn't help much either with all that overcast and rain.

It is the opinion of many, including me, that the Danish series far surpasses the US version in quality of writing and acting. Hopefully Netflix will get the streaming rights to Forbrydelsen some day. With a DNS redirection service such UnBlock Us you can access the Scandanavian Netflix sites to view content not available in the US. I'm not positive that Forbrydelsen is there as I've never looked but I'd be surprised if it wasn't.


----------



## JC Fedorczyk

Dumb question. Is there a way to drop back to the TiVo menu when done with a movie? Pressing the TiVo button takes me all the way back to the TiVo menu.


----------



## mrizzo80

JC Fedorczyk said:


> Dumb question. Is there a way to drop back to the TiVo menu when done with a movie? Pressing the TiVo button takes me all the way back to the TiVo menu.


I think the button labeled "Back" will do this. The Up arrow key works too... that's what I usually use I think.


----------



## mikeyts

JC Fedorczyk said:


> Dumb question. Is there a way to drop back to the TiVo menu when done with a movie? Pressing the TiVo button takes me all the way back to the TiVo menu.


You seem to have asked and answered the question. The TiVo button takes you back to the main menu like it would any other time. The List button (or TiVo TiVo) will take you to the My Shows dialog. The Live TV button will take you to Live TV. The new Back button will back out to wherever you entered Netflix from (I believe--I've never bothered setting up the new remote since I use a Harmony One; if there's an IR code for Back it's not in the Harmony device definitions).


----------



## mikeyts

mrizzo80 said:


> The Up arrow key works too... that's what I usually use I think.


From what context? From streaming video playback UP gets you back to where you started (the title's menu or the browser). From the title's menu it does nothing. From the the browser it moves up and down through the list of genres; UP from My List is the "Search" and "Netflix Kids" buttons, UP from there is the last Genre in the list--it's a circular scroll.


----------



## swerver

More options: 
Left will return you to whatever you were last doing. So if you are watching a recording, left will take you back to the menu but already drilled down to the show you are watching. This works for any menu location, not just shows.

If you exited an app, left will start it up again.

Right is another way to see info. Left hides it again.


----------



## mrizzo80

mikeyts said:


> From what context? From streaming video playback UP gets you back to where you started (the title's menu or the browser). From the title's menu it does nothing. From the the browser it moves up and down through the list of genres; UP from My List is the "Search" and "Netflix Kids" buttons, UP from there is the last Genre in the list--it's a circular scroll.


It sounded like he was looking for a way to avoid getting dumped all the way back out to TiVo Central when streaming Netflix titles. Up may not take him back out to the Netflix artwork tile list in one step but its much quicker than his current method.


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## JC Fedorczyk

The up arrow was what I was looking for! Thank you.


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## jmpage2

Are profiles supposed to be working now? Any settings for this, because my Netflix account has two profiles but I am not getting prompted for them when I start Netflix on my Roamio.


----------



## rainwater

jmpage2 said:


> Are profiles supposed to be working now? Any settings for this, because my Netflix account has two profiles but I am not getting prompted for them when I start Netflix on my Roamio.


They enabled profile support for only a few days before they pulled it. Apparently it was not quite ready. I hope it comes back soon as it was quite useful.


----------



## jmpage2

rainwater said:


> They enabled profile support for only a few days before they pulled it. Apparently it was not quite ready. I hope it comes back soon as it was quite useful.


Ah, that explains it. I was wondering why I had seen people referring to it and not seen it working for myself.


----------



## ustavio

jmpage2 said:


> Ah, that explains it. I was wondering why I had seen people referring to it and not seen it working for myself.


Tivo is currently working with Netflix to come up with a fix for random rebooting issues experienced by a not insignificant amount of subscribers. An earlier fix for rebooting issues resolved issues for many but created new ones for others. Hopefully this fix will also restore profiles. The plan is to issue an update this month.

On another note, my son got a Netflix update today on his PS3 and it toasted any ability to use Netflix at all. He had to head off to work before we could sort it out but will jump when he gets back.

Ah, technology....how it makes life some much less complicated


----------



## mikeyts

swerver said:


> More options:
> Left will return you to whatever you were last doing. So if you are watching a recording, left will take you back to the menu but already drilled down to the show you are watching. This works for any menu location, not just shows.
> 
> If you exited an app, left will start it up again.
> 
> Right is another way to see info. Left hides it again.


How are you guys getting LEFT and UP to do these thing? They don't for me and _shouldn't_. As I stated, from the browser UP scrolls circularly through the genre rows and LEFT scrolls circularly through the titles in the currently selected row. From stream playback LEFT pauses and lets your skip back by poster thumbs, about 15 seconds apart in the title that I tried. In the title's menu it backs out into the browser grid.


----------



## jmpage2

ustavio said:


> Tivo is currently working with Netflix to come up with a fix for random rebooting issues experienced by a not insignificant amount of subscribers. An earlier fix for rebooting issues resolved issues for many but created new ones for others. Hopefully this fix will also restore profiles. The plan is to issue an update this month.
> 
> On another note, my son got a Netflix update today on his PS3 and it toasted any ability to use Netflix at all. He had to head off to work before we could sort it out but will jump when he gets back.
> 
> Ah, technology....how it makes life some much less complicated


Reminds me why I still buy discs. They always work.


----------



## mrizzo80

mikeyts said:


> How are you guys getting LEFT and UP to do these thing? They don't for me and _shouldn't_. As I stated, from the browser UP scrolls circularly through the genre rows and LEFT scrolls circularly through the titles in the currently selected row. From stream playback LEFT pauses and lets your skip back by poster thumbs, about 15 seconds apart in the title that I tried. In the title's menu it backs out into the browser grid.


While streaming a show.

*Just* Up. Not Left then Up. If you are very close to the end of the show (time-wise) I think Up will take you to the Play Next/Back to Browse window though.


----------



## mikeyts

mrizzo80 said:


> While streaming a show.
> 
> *Just* Up. Not Left then Up. If you are very close to the end of the show (time-wise) I think Up will take you to the Play Next/Back to Browse window though.


I think that I just misunderstood and the guy was trying to get back to the Netflix browser, in which case UP is what you hit.


----------



## mikeyts

I found one "problem" with the Netflix player. If you use a "VPN" sort of service to access Netflix libraries in other geographical areas (Brazil, Mexico, UK, Ireland, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Denmark), TiVo's Netflix will not work, at least not with UnblockUS. The other devices that I own with Netflix players all work with this (Roku 2 XS, Roku 3, 2 Panasonic BDPs, 1 Sony BDP, PS3, Xbox 360 and this PC--I can't remember whether my Premiere did, but I think so). The problem is that it uses the router as primary DNS address, which is cool, but it then uses one of my provider's DNS servers as secondary DNS, which won't work. It populates the browser with the right titles (and no My List) and you can search and find stuff not in the US catalog but it can't _play_ anything, dying a few seconds into loading.

Of course, doing this is not entirely kosher so it can't really be considered a bug .


----------



## anthonymoody

Big Netflix announcement today that they're unifying the UI across devices to a brand new experience. Unfortunately, among the many many devices explicitly mentioned, Tivo was not one of them. That said, anyone pop into nflx on TiVo this morning to check?


----------



## jrock

I just checked, still no profiles here.


----------



## rainwater

The profile enabled app that showed up on TiVo a few weeks ago looks nothing like the one Netflix is showing off now. Perhaps that is why they pulled it in order to push the new UI out. Hopefully they will do it soon.


----------



## swerver

mikeyts said:


> How are you guys getting LEFT and UP to do these thing? They don't for me and _shouldn't_. As I stated, from the browser UP scrolls circularly through the genre rows and LEFT scrolls circularly through the titles in the currently selected row. From stream playback LEFT pauses and lets your skip back by poster thumbs, about 15 seconds apart in the title that I tried. In the title's menu it backs out into the browser grid.


Sorry I was referring to what you can do while watching live tv or recordings, not while in netflix.


----------



## anthonymoody

rainwater said:


> The profile enabled app that showed up on TiVo a few weeks ago looks nothing like the one Netflix is showing off now. Perhaps that is why they pulled it in order to push the new UI out. Hopefully they will do it soon.


Exactly.

Funny thing is that as of just now it hasn't yet been pushed to my ps3 which was the first device in the press release iirc.


----------



## ustavio

anthonymoody said:


> Big Netflix announcement today that they're unifying the UI across devices to a brand new experience. Unfortunately, among the many many devices explicitly mentioned, Tivo was not one of them. That said, anyone pop into nflx on TiVo this morning to check?


Patience my friend. The new Netflix is coming to a Tivo near you very....very soon.


----------



## mikeyts

I haven't gotten it on my PS3 either, which is surprising since they tend to try everything on the PS3 first. In fact the banner content ad that's been a regular part of the PS3's player for a couple of months is missing. Whatever; I hope that it comes to my Roku 3 soon; I'm most interested about how it will perform on it.


----------



## anthonymoody

ustavio said:


> Patience my friend. Prepare to be astounded. The new Netflix is coming to a Tivo near you very....very soon.


Pix or it didn't happen!


----------



## nws alpine

Profiles would be nice. We just signed up for Netflix with the Roamio and my profile is littered with a whole bunch of sappy chick flicks. The GF loves it and I can't find a way to remove them form my profile.


----------



## anthonymoody

Well my ps3 updated but for the first time ever I didn't have to install an app update. It was just...there, this morning. Pretty slick new interface. 

My ATV has not changed, nor has the TiVo.


----------



## rainwater

anthonymoody said:


> Well my ps3 updated but for the first time ever I didn't have to install an app update. It was just...there, this morning. Pretty slick new interface.
> 
> My ATV has not changed, nor has the TiVo.


The ATV isn't changing. Netflix made that clear when they announced the new UI. Since TiVo is using the HTML5 app, it will surely come to the Roamio's. It is just a matter of when. I can't imagine it will take that long but we will see.


----------



## leiff

It looks like my netflix updated today. When i launched netflix i got a message about improved searching and graphics. Now when i play something pressing info shows resolution but no more bitrate info. Even worse pressing info again no longer hides this info. And now my roamio is showing c33 error even though network diagnostic checked out. C33 fixed itself 10 minutes later but now i have a c501 error. Wonder if this is all due to Netflix?


----------



## Dan203

My Vizio TV, which uses HTML5 apps via Yahoo! apps service, still hasn't been updated. It got the profiles update the day it was released so I'm surprised it didn't get the update yet.


----------



## rainwater

It's good to see the TiVo app got updated so quick. It looks nice. And you can change the audio/subtitles during playback which is nice.


----------



## moyekj

leiff said:


> It looks like my netflix updated today. When i launched netflix i got a message about improved searching and graphics. Now when i play something pressing info shows resolution but no more bitrate info. Even worse pressing info again no longer hides this info. And now my roamio is showing c33 error even though network diagnostic checked out. C33 fixed itself 10 minutes later but now i have a c501 error. Wonder if this is all due to Netflix?


 [Sigh] Par for the course for TiVo again. (And I know TiVo apologists will probably say this is Netflix's fault but it's up to TiVo to give Netflix thumbs up or down on actually making it available to TiVo users).


----------



## rainwater

moyekj said:


> [Sigh] Par for the course for TiVo again. (And I know TiVo apologists will probably say this is Netflix's fault but it's up to TiVo to give Netflix thumbs up or down on actually making it available to TiVo users).


The app is working fine for me. I'm hardly bothered by how they format the debug info on the screen. You can hide the debug info by hitting up while it is paused btw. It is certainly no failure on TiVos part as everything is working fine on my end.


----------



## jrock

I just tested it out and I have the update as well. I noticed the info bug and was like wtf? if you press info enough times really fast it finally goes away 

Hopefully they fix it though. Not many people may think of going rapid fire on the info button. It is repeatable though. Takes about 10+ clicks and every other click when it should go off I see a weird transparent block over half of it.

Works really nice so far other than that.

-Joe



leiff said:


> Even worse pressing info again no longer hides this info.


----------



## mikeyts

moyekj said:


> ...it's up to TiVo to give Netflix thumbs up or down on actually making it available to TiVo users.


I don't believe that's true. Netflix's whole purpose of going to the HTML5/Webkit platform was to stop having to ask for the OEMs help or permission when they want to change their UI. They change the UI as easily as they change their web page and I don't believe that they ask OEMs for permission to do it anymore than they ask the web browser producers for permission to change their site.

I'm sure that if TiVo relays a bunch of complaints from their customers about the new UI being buggy or performing intolerably poorly they'll back out of it and investigate. I'm sure that they'll take any complaints about the style of the UI as relayed through TiVo into consideration as well, though those aren't likely to push them to change.


----------



## moyekj

rainwater said:


> You can hide the debug info by hitting up while it is paused btw.


 That's a good tip, thanks!


----------



## rhettf

leiff said:


> It looks like my netflix updated today. When i launched netflix i got a message about improved searching and graphics. Now when i play something pressing info shows resolution but no more bitrate info. Even worse pressing info again no longer hides this info. And now my roamio is showing c33 error even though network diagnostic checked out. C33 fixed itself 10 minutes later but now i have a c501 error. Wonder if this is all due to Netflix?


I have been able to press info and get bitrate into for a couple weeks.


----------



## mikeyts

The new UI is up on my TiVo today, as well as my PS3. I haven't received the Roku 3 or Xbox 360 updates yet. Yes, it does feature Profiles and asks you to choose one before it starts (you can go to a menu afterwards to change to another). Hopefully it will stop asking if you choose the same one several times in a row. It's a bit different on the PS3; on the PS3 you bring up a menu with CIRCLE button and go directly to Search with TRIANGLE; on TiVo you scroll to the row above My List to see the menu. The menu includes Search (a magnifying glass), Kids, Profiles (the icon of the currently selected) and Settings (a cog); Settings is the menu you previously got to with UP UP DOWN DOWN LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT UP UP UP UP. From that menu you can see version information and run a network diagnostic, as well as log out of your Netflix account. If I had a family I think that I'd prefer that that menu remain harder to get to, though I'm sure that older kids would quickly learn how to get there. The menu on the Kids UI also contains that Settings item, which is just stupid inasmuch as you can "break" the player by logging out of your TiVo account, requiring the password to log back in. On the PS3 that menu additionally contains "Max", a useless little quiz that you can take to help you choose a title which fits your present mood; you take the quiz and it presents you with recommendations. "Max" is also available by scrolling through the library browser, a few rows down from My List.

On the PS3 you get a big content ad to begin with; mine is for _Sharknado_. Press OK/SELECT and it'll take you to the menu for that title; scroll down to get to My List, which is where it starts out on TiVo. The top half of the screen is always consumed by information for the currently selected title, leaving only two rows of 5 cover thumbs visible. The information is a description of the title on the left with a slideshow of three shots from the title on the right. The cover thumbs are now 16x9 shaped. Hit PLAY and it'll start playing the selection, from where you left off if you'd played it before and not finished. Hit OK/SEL and it'll bring up the title menu. The title menu, for some reason, no longer contains "Play from beginning", something I'm sure will elicit complaints. The same is true of the Xbox player and has been for years so people will probably get used to it. TV series have an item for More Episodes which puts you in a list of seasons with a set of four episodes visible on the right with a poster thumb from the episode to the left of a description; if you select a season you can slide up and down through the list of episodes. I really wish that, when you select a title that's a series, it would replace the generic description of the series with a description of the currently selected episode but they sadly didn't do that; to get that current episode description you have to drill down to More Episodes. Weirdly, you just get a second different description of the series.

During playback you can hit DOWN to see the scrub bar; hit DOWN again and you can select the Audio & Subtitles menu to change those things without pausing playback.

The stream status info overlay (this) which comes up when you press INFO (DISPLAY or SELECT on PS3) no longer contains bit rate information on TiVo so you don't know which of two 480, 720 or 1080 Super HD encodes that you're seeing. It does not completely go away when you press INFO again; the audio and subtitle (if any) lines stay (TiVo only). That "feature" is not documented by Netflix anywhere; it's their debug tool, available for use as-is. If you hit DOWN and then INFO on the TiVo then the whole overlay goes away.


----------



## g808

Is the new app coming to non-Roamio boxes, at least the Premieres?


----------



## monkeydust

g808 said:


> Is the new app coming to non-Roamio boxes, at least the Premieres?


Hasn't shown up on my Elite yet


----------



## Dan203

g808 said:


> Is the new app coming to non-Roamio boxes, at least the Premieres?


The most recent update for the Premieres added the ability to run HTML5 apps. As of now only the YouTube app is using it, but I assume they play to switch the Netflix app over eventually as well.


----------



## mikeyts

g808 said:


> Is the new app coming to non-Roamio boxes, at least the Premieres?


Unlikely. The Premiere's implementation of the Netflix UI is built on top of a no-longer-in-development Adobe Flash-based tool call AIR. Roamio's Netflix app runs on essentially a version of the Opera browser which contains HTML5 and the Webkit rendering engine.


----------



## mikeyts

Dan203 said:


> The most recent update for the Premieres added the ability to run HTML5 apps. As of now only the YouTube app is using it, but I assume they play to switch the Netflix app over eventually as well.


I'm sorry--I hadn't heard that (my Premiere's been unplugged). If true then maybe. I'll have to speak with my friend at TiVo about that.


----------



## moyekj

mikeyts said:


> I'm sorry--I hadn't heard that (my Premiere's been unplugged). If true then maybe. I'll have to speak with my friend at TiVo about that.


 It's not maybe - it does run already. Via RPC call I was able to run HTML version of Netflix on my Premiere and Elite units with 20.3.7 software which has opera browser built in. I haven't tried today's HTML version yet but the previous one ran fine on series 4 units albeit much slower than on my Roamio Pro.


----------



## mikeyts

After playing with it a little more I notice that they've retired the "Super HD" logo in the descriptions; all titles in HD are simply marked "HD". When the "Super HD" logo was there, a title marked simply "HD" was 720p-only.

I also note that they've removed the "x of y" indicator from the browser row. You used to see that the title that you've selected was "5 of 75" for example; not anymore. The genre rows continue to be 75 titles long AFAICT.


----------



## mrizzo80

I like the new app so far. 

Might be nice if they would add a toggle in the Settings to enable/disable the top-of-screen graphic rotation -- a single static image would be fine with me. The rotation speed is also a bit fast IMO.


----------



## nws alpine

nws alpine said:


> Profiles would be nice. We just signed up for Netflix with the Roamio and my profile is littered with a whole bunch of sappy chick flicks. The GF loves it and I can't find a way to remove them form my profile.


After I got done telling my GF about the update coming she was watching netflix on the mini. I noticed the update here and launched it on the Roamio. I asked her if she noticed anything new. Her response was "Yeah it has the profile screen now. I selected your name". Looks like I will have settle with a messed up profile forever.


----------



## apw2607

mikeyts said:


> Unlikely. The Premiere's implementation of the Netflix UI is built on top of a no-longer-in-development Adobe Flash-based tool call AIR. Roamio's Netflix app runs on essentially a version of the Opera browser which contains HTML5 and the Webkit rendering engine.


.. and the premier struggled to run the older UI, let alone this one. The Roamio seems to handle this new UI with ease. Its a marked improvement over the old one. Much more information rich.


----------



## Dan203

apw2607 said:


> .. and the premier struggled to run the older UI, let alone this one. The Roamio seems to handle this new UI with ease. Its a marked improvement over the old one. Much more information rich.


According to the press release this new UI is actually suppose to run better on low powered hardware.

moyekj has a hack that allows him to use the new app on his Premiere, maybe he'll try it out for us and let us know how it runs.


----------



## mikeyts

I'm impressed that they ported the Opera platform to Premiere; that's a huge mod to be making to last gen's platform at this point. I'll have to check it out when they get Netflix up and running on it. (Since I switched to my Roamio using the Premiere is difficult, since with it set up to use CableCARD, unlike the Series3, it insists on the CableCARD being installed. I had to set it to "antenna only" before I could transfer my list of Season Passes which screwed up those season passes a bit, changing the channels to OTA ones; I can't change them back for series which are currently in hiatus).


----------



## Dan203

mikeyts said:


> I'm impressed that they ported the Opera platform to Premiere; that's a huge mod to be making to last gen's platform at this point. I'll have to check it out when they get Netflix up and running on it. (Since I switched to my Roamio using the Premiere is difficult, since with it set up to use CableCARD, unlike the Series3, it insists on the CableCARD being installed. I had to set it to "antenna only" before I could transfer my list of Season Passes which screwed up those season passes a bit, changing the channels to OTA ones; I can't change them back for series which are currently in hiatus).


Should have used kmttg for the SP transfer. It can grab the SPs from any Premiere or Roamio and transfer them to another Premiere/Roamio while maintaining the order and even properly setting them up for shows not currently in the guide. It's 1000x better then trying to use the website.


----------



## hamz9561

For about a week, my Roamio started frequently dropping audio and video and then after about a second or two it continues where it dropped. None of my settings have changed and I have no problems on my WD Live streaming box with the same programming. It doesn't seem to matter what I'm watching on Netflix either. I'm a n00b here but have had TiVo boxes for over 7 years.


----------



## hefe

We just got the update on our Roamio, and the menu looks great. But now it is inexplicably stretching a non-widescreen show. My daughter just put on the TV show Dinosaurs, and Netflix is stretching it to fill the screen.


----------



## mikeyts

hefe said:


> We just got the update on our Roamio, and the menu looks great. But now it is inexplicably stretching a non-widescreen show. My daughter just put on the TV show Dinosaurs, and Netflix is stretching it to fill the screen.


I just started playing an episode of that and it's not doing it to me. It was season 1 episode 2; any particular episode you're watching that's getting stretched?


----------



## hefe

mikeyts said:


> I just started playing an episode of that and it's not doing it to me. It was season 1 episode 2; any particular episode you're watching that's getting stretched?


Huh...it's one that my daughter just turned on the first time after we got the new interface message tonight. It's off now, but I'm curious. I'll go and see what it was...


----------



## hefe

Well, all of them it seems.

I picked the same episode as you, sampled a few others. All stretched instead of pillarboxed.


----------



## mikeyts

This is what I'm seeing:








From near the beginning of S1:E3.

Must be a TiVo setting somewhere. Are you sure you don't have "Settings->Video->Aspect Correction Mode" set to "Full"? (The ZOOM remote button does funny things in the new Netflix UI).


----------



## hefe

mikeyts said:


> This is what I'm seeing:
> 
> From near the beginning of S1:E3.
> 
> Must be a TiVo setting somewhere. Are you sure you don't have "Settings->Video->Aspect Correction Mode" set to "Full"? (The ZOOM remote button does funny things in the new Netflix UI).


I don't have a zoom button mapped to our Harmony remote. It's weird because it wasn't doing this yesterday, but it is certainly possible that the kids got in there and changed something, although the timing would be quite coincidental.


----------



## Dan203

This has been a problem since the first Netflix client on TiVo. For some reason the Zoom setting effects SD content in the app, but there is no way to actually adjust it inside the app. You have to exit and go to live TV or a recording, set it to the proper value, then go back to Netflix to watch your show/movie.


----------



## mikeyts

I've played with it and Aspect Correction Mode "Full" does work to stretch Netflix SD content.


----------



## aaronwt

leiff said:


> It looks like my netflix updated today. When i launched netflix i got a message about improved searching and graphics. Now when i play something pressing info shows resolution but no more bitrate info. Even worse pressing info again no longer hides this info. And now my roamio is showing c33 error even though network diagnostic checked out. C33 fixed itself 10 minutes later but now i have a c501 error. Wonder if this is all due to Netflix?


I noticed mine updated this morning on my Roamio Pro. I had to log in again and I was wondering why. But now, like you, I don't see the bitrate info any more.
Plus no titles are showing "SuperHD" for me anymore.

EDIT: I see it also updated on my Minis too. Again the same issue for me. No bitrate info and it doesn't show SUperHD anymore. Neither on the info screen nor any of the titles.


----------



## rainwater

aaronwt said:


> I noticed mine updated this morning on my Roamio Pro. I had to log in again and I was wondering why. But now, like you, I don't see the bitrate info any more.
> Plus no titles are showing "SuperHD" for me anymore.
> 
> EDIT: I see it also updated on my Minis too. Again the same issue for me. No bitrate info and it doesn't show SUperHD anymore. Neither on the info screen nor any of the titles.


Now that everyone has "Super HD", I'm guessing this is a first step to killing off the branding. As for the debug info, I wouldn't be surprised if they disabled it eventually.


----------



## moyekj

Dan203 said:


> According to the press release this new UI is actually suppose to run better on low powered hardware.
> 
> moyekj has a hack that allows him to use the new app on his Premiere, maybe he'll try it out for us and let us know how it runs.


Just tried running the new html version of Netflix on my Elite this morning and it worked fine. Sluggish compared to running on my Roamio Pro as expected, but worked well overall and better than I remembered running the Flash version. I switched between a few shows and toggled CC on/off and it worked as expected. Playing the original Star Trek series looks like stretchorama even though I have Panel mode selected, but that happened on my Roamio Pro as well. Can't recall if it was that way with Flash player.
Anyway, I think this version will be much better Netflix player for series 4 units than the current Flash version. Likely TiVo is waiting for general 20.3.7 rollout to series 4 units to complete before making it the default series 4 version.


----------



## BiloxiGeek

I noticed the new Netflix last night, so far I like it, but it took forever to update all the thumbnail images on the lower half of the screen. At first I thought something was broke but the thumbnails finally started populating the screen.


----------



## mr_smits

mrizzo80 said:


> I like the new app so far.
> 
> Might be nice if they would add a toggle in the Settings to enable/disable the top-of-screen graphic rotation -- a single static image would be fine with me. The rotation speed is also a bit fast IMO.


Found it last night as well. The top graphic is a screen hog, consuming a lot of valuable screen real estate. That plus the title orientation has gone from portrait to landscape makes it difficult to see many titles at once. Too early to complain too loudly about this, but it seems like a half step backwards.

The performance of the app is fine from what I could tell. I like that it now recognizes profiles.


----------



## g808

Still waiting on my Premieres.


----------



## rainwater

mr_smits said:


> Found it last night as well. The top graphic is a screen hog, consuming a lot of valuable screen real estate.


The top graphic is also being used as an advertisement. I already saw one today. I would be shocked if Netflix changed it as it is going to let them push new content ads to users.


----------



## mr_smits

rainwater said:


> The top graphic is also being used as an advertisement. I already saw one today. I would be shocked if Netflix changed it as it is going to let them push new content ads to users.


Right. I can understand maybe as a temporary advertisement space, but to use the entire 1/3 (or 1/2?) for that and for showing close ups of the video I don't get.


----------



## rainwater

mr_smits said:


> Right. I can understand maybe as a temporary advertisement space, but to use the entire 1/3 (or 1/2?) for that and for showing close ups of the video I don't get.


They are trying to make it a bit more visual to allow better discovery. Obviously a grid of cover art would be more efficient but I don't think that leads to a better experience for most people. So we may not like it but I think it is here to stay. Personally, I don't mind since the cover art used for the banner is much more detailed so it gives more visual information than before (I can't make much out using the old cover art method).


----------



## mrizzo80

New feature: you can directly initiate playback of a specific TV show episode via the "Watch Now from Netflix" functionality within the core TiVo UI. Previously that would just take you to the episode landing page in the HTML5 app (which itself was a big improvement over the Flash app that just took you to the Netflix Search screen with the show title filled in).


----------



## anthonymoody

mrizzo80 said:


> New feature: you can directly initiate playback of a specific TV show episode via the "Watch Now from Netflix" functionality within the core TiVo UI. Previously that would just take you to the episode landing page in the HTML5 app (which itself was a big improvement over the Flash app that just took you to the Netflix Search screen with the show title filled in).


Man oh man imagine how great this feature would be if they also folded in Amazon streaming, hulu/+ and Vudu?


----------



## bbrown9

I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but the big question for me is whether this fixes the reboot problem. I'll have to wait until I have some time with no recordings scheduled to try it out - just in case it's not fixed.


----------



## jmpage2

And profiles are gone again. Gr......


----------



## jocoze

jmpage2 said:


> And profiles are gone again. Gr......


Yeah, I tried it out yesterday and selected my daughter's profile so she could watch shows, and now today the profile selection is gone and its stuck on her profile. This is very frustrating.


----------



## monkeydust

So, how the heck do you play a title from the beginning now? I can't find the option on shows that have already been partially viewed.


----------



## bbrown9

jocoze said:


> Yeah, I tried it out yesterday and selected my daughter's profile so she could watch shows, and now today the profile selection is gone and its stuck on her profile. This is very frustrating.


Log out of the Netflix app and then log back in again. I think that will get the main profile back.


----------



## bbrown9

monkeydust said:


> So, how the heck do you play a title from the beginning now? I can't find the option on shows that have already been partially viewed.


I was looking for that, too.

Another issue that has been present all along with Netflix is that there is no way to view info about the episode you're watching while you're watching it (something akin to the info button when you're watching something with the regular TiVo interface). I was hoping they would add that with the revamped UI.


----------



## mikeyts

monkeydust said:


> So, how the heck do you play a title from the beginning now? I can't find the option on shows that have already been partially viewed.


For whatever reason they omitted "Play from beginning" from the title menu. Perhaps mentally challenged people were forever choosing it and accidentally losing their bookmarks. The 3x rewind is extremely fast so you can get back to the beginning very quickly, but you might be someone who hasn't seen it and don't want to be exposed to any of it.

They also omitted the "Audio & subtitles" title menu item. You can change select those options during playback but I'd rather set it up before I start.


----------



## bbrown9

bbrown9 said:


> I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but the big question for me is whether this fixes the reboot problem. I'll have to wait until I have some time with no recordings scheduled to try it out - just in case it's not fixed.



no, it's not fixed! I just had another reboot!


----------



## monkeydust

mikeyts said:


> For whatever reason they omitted "Play from beginning" from the title menu. Perhaps mentally challenged people were forever choosing it and accidentally losing their bookmarks. The 3x rewind is extremely fast so you can get back to the beginning very quickly, but you might be someone who hasn't seen it and don't want to be exposed to any of it.


The 3x rewind is not fast enough for a 2 year old who is wondering why Tinkerbell isn't playing immediately.


----------



## mrizzo80

Another new feature I noticed was the TiVo jump-back and skip-ahead remote buttons now work in Netflix. I did had some trouble getting them to consistently work well, but they are supported now and hopefully a work in progress.

Something else I noticed (though no idea if this is new because I never used this feature on the old HTML5 app) is that if you let the end of episode auto-play kick in on old TV shows that have opening credits right away, the next episode will begin playback *after* the opening credits have finished. Nice feature.


----------



## bbrown9

bbrown9 said:


> no, it's not fixed! I just had another reboot!


I got word from Margret that there are more updates in early December that are intended to fix the reboot issue.

Patiently waiting....


----------



## jwbelcher

jmpage2 said:


> And profiles are gone again. Gr......


It be nice to know why profiles continue to be pulled. You'd expect profiles to have stayed with the new app. Are they planning to restrict profiles on Tivo? 

I tried launching a program using my kids profile from our iPad using DIAL, but the Tivo app complained about not being logged in with the same account.... I guess I have to stick to using my ipad + chromecast to use profiles / netflix. :down:


----------



## mikeyts

mrizzo80 said:


> Something else I noticed (though no idea if this is new because I never used this feature on the old HTML5 app) is that if you let the end of episode auto-play kick in on old TV shows that have opening credits right away, the next episode will begin playback *after* the opening credits have finished. Nice feature.


It's been part of the Netflix "Post-play Experience" since the feature launched in mid-August 2012. If a TV series has no establishing scene at the beginning it will skip the title sequence. So many shows do begin with pre-title establishing scenes so you may not have noticed before. For example, the _Law & Order_, _NCIS_ and _CSI_ series always begin with a scene before the titles either showing the murder happening (without revealing the culprit) or showing the discovery of the murder victim(s). Most kid shows don't, for which Post-play title skipping is a good thing, saving poor parents having to endlessly listen to the title theme of _Phineas and Ferb_ (which I actually like but don't want to hear every 22 minutes ).


----------



## mikeyts

jmpage2 said:


> And profiles are gone again. Gr......


That is bizarre. It's obviously been pulled; not only does it not ask, an option to change it should be in the menu row (along with Search, Kids, Settings and Exit) and that's gone as well. Why does it keep getting pulled from TiVo and only TiVo (I check six other platforms, two with the old HTML5 UI, and they all still have it).


----------



## JC Fedorczyk

Any idea when in December for the fixes? The reboot issue is a big PITA. It's a shame too because I really like the app.


----------



## bbrown9

JC Fedorczyk said:


> Any idea when in December for the fixes? The reboot issue is a big PITA. It's a shame too because I really like the app.


I didn't get any specific dates - just "early December".


----------



## mikeyts

I noticed another little bug; during 3X FF the red line on the scrub bar starts to flicker. Annoying but harmless.


----------



## ustavio

bbrown9 said:


> no, it's not fixed! I just had another reboot!


I just had another Netflix reboot. First one since the "New Netflix" unveiled, the UI has gone from release 6-p, to 10-p, to 16-p then 19-p. Started with profiles then....gone again. This was supposed to be fixed, then fixed again in November and now December. I don't think they know what's causing it. Or they not what the issue is.....but just can't get it to work right. This is beyond annoying.


----------



## ustavio

bbrown9 said:


> I didn't get any specific dates - just "early December".


It was supposed to be November, now pushed back t December. I just don't think Tivo or Netflix even know what the problem is. Either that or they know but have no clue on a fix. Previous "fixes" have helped some but created new problems for others.


----------



## CrispyCritter

ustavio said:


> It was supposed to be November, now pushed back t December. I just don't think Tivo or Netflix even know what the problem is. Either that or they know but have no clue on a fix. Previous "fixes" have helped some but created new problems for others.


The issue, I suspect, is that there is no single "the problem" to be found. There are multiple problems, some of which have been fixed and some not. There are many slightly peculiar networks out there (whether it be ISP or LAN) and TiVo/Netflix are working their way through them. The Roamio/Mini doesn't appear to be very resilient to network problems yet.

I haven't had a Netflix reboot in a long time (30+ shows, well over a month); I think my particular problem has been solved. So they are making progress, which I realize may be both reassuring but very frustrating to you!


----------



## hefe

I've never had a Netflix reboot, as far as I can tell.


----------



## ustavio

hefe said:


> I've never had a Netflix reboot, as far as I can tell.


Famous last words. We are now officially adding you to the Reboot Queue


----------



## rainwater

ustavio said:


> Famous last words. We are now officially adding you to the Reboot Queue


I haven't had a reboot with Netflix since the last TiVo update. I don't suspect it is a widespread problem anymore and is isolated to a few single conditions.


----------



## ustavio

rainwater said:


> I haven't had a reboot with Netflix since the last TiVo update. I don't suspect it is a widespread problem anymore and is isolated to a few single conditions.


Hopefully they are narrowing it down. I just had another reboot. The second in two days. Both while recording. Both after profiles yanked. It's quite vexing. I wonder, however, how many experience this issue sporadically and/or randomly (who don't know about this forum) and just shrug it off.


----------



## pgoelz

Just to add a data point.... we have had the Roamio basic (upgraded to 2TB) for a couple weeks and watch plenty of Netflix. Zero reboots. 

We are connected to 30Mb/S Comcast via router and wired ethernet, if that matters. Netflix has been flawless. 

We have had several C133 errors though. Never while using the Netflix player. 

Paul


----------



## bbrown9

Mine is also wired Ethernet.

Maybe it has something to do with time of day and how busy Netflix servers are? I watch at night - lately in the wee hours of the morning after any recordings have finished to avoid having a reboot interrupt a recording.

Or maybe there's a regional thing to it. I'm in MA.

Or ISP - I have Verizon FIOS for both cable and internet.

Or maybe it's a problem with Plus/Pro units and not basic? I have a Roamio Pro.


----------



## anthonymoody

pgoelz said:


> Just to add a data point.... we have had the Roamio basic (upgraded to 2TB) for a couple weeks and watch plenty of Netflix. Zero reboots.
> 
> We are connected to 30Mb/S Comcast via router and wired ethernet, if that matters. Netflix has been flawless.
> 
> We have had several C133 errors though. Never while using the Netflix player.
> 
> Paul


I got my first C133 error last night though I wasn't watching Netflix. I was rapidly deleting a bunch of stuff I didn't want and i think I got a little ahead of the tivos ability to keep up.


----------



## hamz9561

The new app cleared up the video/audio drop out that I used to have on my Roamio with the original Netflix app that originally came with it.


----------



## nws alpine

monkeydust said:


> The 3x rewind is not fast enough for a 2 year old who is wondering why Tinkerbell isn't playing immediately.


I start the movies from my iPhone now and push it to the Tivo. Once loaded you can move the slider in 1 second to the beginning. Much faster than rewinding.


----------



## mikeyts

nws alpine said:


> I start the movies from my iPhone now and push it to the Tivo. Once loaded you can move the slider in 1 second to the beginning. Much faster than rewinding.


Manipulating the Netflix app on TiVo from the Android or iOS Netflix app via its DIAL support is very cool. You're right; you can _instantly_ drag the little shuttle to the beginning of the film (jump to any arbitrary point in it). It also has the advantage that the tablet app has a much deeper browser than the one on TiVo (new or old), with tons of subgenres for each genre as well as lists of "titles like this one" for every title that you look at.


----------



## NYHeel

I just had my first reboot on my Roamio that I recall seeing. It was from Netflix. My son was watching something and I was trying to get out of the app by pressing the back button and I got a black screen that I couldn't get out of and then a reboot. A little annoying as it cost me 5 minutes of 1 recording.


----------



## kbmb

This new interface is junk. Why can't they let me get to a grid view of my list? I have to scroll endlessly in a single line to browse through my list? Fine, keep that for the main screen, but at least allow a view all for my list to be able to easily see things.

-Kevin


----------



## ustavio

NYHeel said:


> I just had my first reboot on my Roamio that I recall seeing. It was from Netflix. My son was watching something and I was trying to get out of the app by pressing the back button and I got a black screen that I couldn't get out of and then a reboot. A little annoying as it cost me 5 minutes of 1 recording.


Welcome to the Netflix Reboot Family. I can assure you that Tivo and Netflix are and have been aware of this vexing and persistent issue and are actively working to resolve it. In the process of doing so, the various Tivo software updates and Netflix HDUI releases have worked well for some but not so much for others. So, ignore the "I've Never Had a Reboot" skeptics. It is very unlikely that anything is wrong on your end. All the kinks should be sorted out by the end of the year including the return of profiles.

In the meantime, try signing out and back into Netflix. It might help. Otherwise, be patient....help is on the way.


----------



## anthonymoody

ustavio said:


> Welcome to the Netflix Reboot Family. I can assure you that Tivo and Netflix are and have been aware of this vexing and persistent issue and are actively working to resolve it. In the process of doing so, the various Tivo software updates and Netflix HDUI releases have worked well for some but not so much for others. So, ignore the "I've Never Had a Reboot" skeptics. It is very unlikely that anything is wrong on your end. All the kinks should be sorted out by the end of the year including the return of profiles.
> 
> In the meantime, try signing out and back into Netflix. It might help. Otherwise, be patient....help is on the way.


Ustavio you've posted things in the past that point to you being either an insider or an apologist. Please let us know which. If you have inside info but can't publicly say how, a PM would be welcomed


----------



## tatergator1

anthonymoody said:


> Ustavio you've posted things in the past that point to you being either an insider or an apologist. Please let us know which. If you have inside info but can't publicly say how, a PM would be welcomed


I get the impression he's gotten pretty deep into the hierarchy of Tivo technical staff after a lot of discussions with Support. But I'm just speculating.


----------



## ustavio

anthonymoody said:


> Ustavio you've posted things in the past that point to you being either an insider or an apologist. Please let us know which. If you have inside info but can't publicly say how, a PM would be welcomed


No I'm not an insider (I wish) nor am I an apologist (not even sure what that means). What I am is persistent. After spending so much for this Roamio, the one area that has plagued me since day one has been my inability to use Netflix without one problem or another. And reboots while using Netflix have been the most annoying of them all. I've tried a lot of the great advice given on this forum but the problem has still persisted. I simply refused to believe that I was the only one (or one of a handful) experiencing the same problem. So, by process of elimination (hardware, network, handshake, make and model of TV, etc), I ultimately felt it had to be either Tivo Software or Netflix Software or a combination of the two.

To make a long story short, I have bugged the snot out of Tivo and Netflix seeking a solution and have posted what I have gleaned. I have been assured that Tivo will continue to address different issues in upcoming updates (that information has been also posted by others as well). Netflix has revamped their interface with all platforms (not just Tivo) and is constantly making updates, tweaks and changes to their UI (that too has been posted by others). Both companies have been trying to accomplish a lot at the same time and (obviously) there have been many glitches.

In addition to being persistent, I am trying to be an optimist. Tivo and Netflix will fix these (and other) issues...and soon, because they must. It is in their best interests. Unhappy customers post unhappy remarks and write unhappy reviews.

Besides, if this stuff ain't fixed soon, I'm just going to have to start reading books again.


----------



## ustavio

tatergator1 said:


> I get the impression he's gotten pretty deep into the hierarchy of Tivo technical staff after a lot of discussions with Support. But I'm just speculating.


Bingo.


----------



## jmpage2

Has anyone found a work around for this?

My biggest peeve is that at the end of a program the window goes into a small PiP in the upper left corner and I can't find any way of making it go full screen again. It might surprise people, but sometimes I want to watch the credits, or there is actually an additional segment of the movie at the end of the credits.


----------



## TiVoMargret

Hi all,

I want to reassure you that Netflix and TiVo are working closely together to address the reboots that some of you have experienced. I am currently expecting an update in mid-December that addresses some of these issues.

If you are a frequent user of Netflix and feel like you experience reboots more frequently that others have reported, I invite you to join the Beta program where we are currently testing the next update.

Sign up at http://fieldtrials.tivo.com and then send email to [email protected] with the subject "Netflix reboot issue". I will be able to add a few of you to the program.

Best,
--Margret

P.S. Check out our $25,000 Holiday Cash Sweepstakes: http://sweeps.tivo.com/HolidayCash/


----------



## Dan203

Does anyone know if there is an alternate to the now removed "play from beginning" option? If you stop a movie, show, whatever before you get to the very end (i.e. during the credits) it doesn't reset to the start. So if you want to watch it again you now have to RW all the way back to the start, which is a huge PITA. I found that if I use my iPad to do it I can drag the bar to reset it back to the beginning, but that's not always convenient. Is there some other way, a secret key combo maybe, to jump back to the start of a program?


----------



## mikeyts

jmpage2 said:


> Has anyone found a work around for this?
> 
> My biggest peeve is that at the end of a program the window goes into a small PiP in the upper left corner and I can't find any way of making it go full screen again.


Hit LEFT UP UP and OK to select the little inset windows and blow it up again.


----------



## ustavio

TiVoMargret said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I want to reassure you that Netflix and TiVo are working closely together to address the reboots that some of you have experienced. I am currently expecting an update in mid-December that addresses some of these issues.
> 
> If you are a frequent user of Netflix and feel like you experience reboots more frequently that others have reported, I invite you to join the Beta program where we are currently testing the next update.
> 
> Sign up at http://fieldtrials.tivo.com and then send email to [email protected] with the subject "Netflix reboot issue". I will be able to add a few of you to the program.
> 
> Best,
> --Margret
> 
> P.S. Check out our $25,000 Holiday Cash Sweepstakes: http://sweeps.tivo.com/HolidayCash/


Bazinga!

Thank you TivoMargret!


----------



## anthonymoody

Thank you ustavio. Love your persistence!

And of course thank you Margret.


----------



## jmpage2

mikeyts said:


> Hit LEFT UP UP and OK to select the little inset windows and blow it up again.


That was the thing that came immediately to mind. When I do that the rest of the screen goes black and the little window in the upper left remains. It doesn't return to full screen.

Seems to be a bug.


----------



## mikeyts

jmpage2 said:


> That was the thing that came immediately to mind. When I do that the rest of the screen goes black and the little window in the upper left remains. It doesn't return to full screen.
> 
> Seems to be a bug.


I tried it just before I wrote that and it worked perfectly well but now I try it and it's pretty flaky. It started out doing what you said then I hit DOWN and it blew it up. I hit left and it went back to the Post Play display and I blew the credits back up. I did that a couple of times and it jammed (playing the credits of _The 4400_ Season 1 Episode 1). It needs work.


----------



## pgoelz

NYHeel said:


> I just had my first reboot on my Roamio that I recall seeing. It was from Netflix. My son was watching something and I was trying to get out of the app by pressing the back button and I got a black screen that I couldn't get out of and then a reboot. A little annoying as it cost me 5 minutes of 1 recording.


I just had a very similar issue.... twice. I was poking around in the Netflix app and under SETTINGS I did a NETWORK CHECK. It stalled trying to communicate with "server 3" so I used the up arrow to select the GO BACK menu item. That took me back to the main Netflix screen. When I hit the BACK button, I got a black screen and then a reboot.

I had recently changed the Tivo output format from fixed 1080i to multiple formats and remembered reading that keeping it fixed might help so I reset it to fixed 1080i.

I then tried the above steps again. And it rebooted again at the same point after hitting the back button to back out of the Netflix app after the stalled server 3 step in a network check.

After the second reboot, I once again opened the netflix app and went to the settings page but this time I did not perform a network check. And this time I was able to back out of the app without a reboot.

Hope this helps narrow it down. I have seen other references to suspicions that something about a network issue can cause the Netflix app to reboot the Tivo. Maybe there is something to it?

Paul


----------



## bbrown9

Paul, that sounds like another bug. 

The reboots we have been talking about occurred while watching video on Netflix. At least that is what I have seen.


----------



## ustavio

pgoelz said:


> I just had a very similar issue.... twice. I was poking around in the Netflix app and under SETTINGS I did a NETWORK CHECK. It stalled trying to communicate with "server 3" so I used the up arrow to select the GO BACK menu item. That took me back to the main Netflix screen. When I hit the BACK button, I got a black screen and then a reboot.
> 
> I had recently changed the Tivo output format from fixed 1080i to multiple formats and remembered reading that keeping it fixed might help so I reset it to fixed 1080i.
> 
> I then tried the above steps again. And it rebooted again at the same point after hitting the back button to back out of the Netflix app after the stalled server 3 step in a network check.
> 
> After the second reboot, I once again opened the netflix app and went to the settings page but this time I did not perform a network check. And this time I was able to back out of the app without a reboot.
> 
> Hope this helps narrow it down. I have seen other references to suspicions that something about a network issue can cause the Netflix app to reboot the Tivo. Maybe there is something to it?
> 
> Paul


Same exact thing happened to me last night. Server 3 stalled and the network check didn't complete. Exiting Netflix caused a black screen and a reboot. Server 3 still hangs. I still get a black screen but eventually get to Tivo Central without a reboot but it is, yet another bug.

I see that Netflix moved from UI release 22p to 27p. Whether or not that affects Server connectivity or not, I don't know.

Keep posting these things when they happen. Apparently, TivoMargret is dialed in to this forum and they are working on various fixes. Send her an email. Be a squeaky wheel. I know I am


----------



## ustavio

bbrown9 said:


> Paul, that sounds like another bug.
> 
> The reboots we have been talking about occurred while watching video on Netflix. At least that is what I have seen.


I think they are all part of the same cluster of bugs. I even had a reboot just thinking about watching Netflix (now that was creepy). It all seems to be related to whatever ongoing changes Tivo and/or Netflix are making as they tinker with their respective software.


----------



## ustavio

anthonymoody said:


> Thank you ustavio. Love your persistence!
> 
> And of course thank you Margret.


Mom always told me a squeaky wheel gets the grease although the mental image is not particularly appealing. The one about honey attracting more bees than vinegar always made wonder why I would want a bunch of bees......

Who come up with these things?


----------



## mikeyts

ustavio said:


> Mom always told me a squeaky wheel gets the grease although the mental image is not particularly appealing. The one about honey attracting more bees than vinegar always made wonder why I would want a bunch of bees......
> 
> Who come up with these things?


"You can catch more flies with honey...", which I've always heard, makes a little more sense, using honey to bait a flytrap. Of course, you can catch the _most_ flies with foul smelling substances .


----------



## mckingsley

I just want to know definitevly why profiles support was removed and if there are at least plans to bring it back.


Because of this and the fact that it is working well on other devices it makes me want to use my PS3 for Netflix. It would be nice to be able to stay in the Tivo experience.


----------



## jrtroo

Ask Netflix?


----------



## mckingsley

Well from higher posts in this thread it seemed like Tivo is coming out with updates to help netflix reboots, but does that also mean adding profiles?


----------



## ustavio

mckingsley said:


> Well from higher posts in this thread it seemed like Tivo is coming out with updates to help netflix reboots, but does that also mean adding profiles?


TiVoMargret indicated in her post that an upcoming (this month) update will address "some" of the issues related to Netflix reboots. While I try to remain optimistic, I'll just have to wait and see if this update fixes my particular and ongoing random reboot issue. It remains baffling to me as to why this problem even exists much less persists through multiple updates to date. I've never had this problem with Netflix on any other platform. I am hopeful that profiles (and consistent SuperHD....another nit to pik) will return but as of now, I refuse to use TiVo's Netflix portal while recording anything. If I want a reboot free experience, profiles and SuperHD, I use my PS3 or Blu-Ray Players.


----------



## MoBoost

I have no sound using Netflix with my Premiere. This has been an ongoing problem for a long time through all of the updates. Been using my PS3, it would be nice to use TiVo. Any suggestions to correct this?
Thanks,
Jon


----------



## mikeyts

MoBoost said:


> I have no sound using Netflix with my Premiere. This has been an ongoing problem for a long time through all of the updates. Been using my PS3, it would be nice to use TiVo. Any suggestions to correct this?


Do you have 5.1 sound selected for titles which have it? If so, can your AVR handle Dolby Digital Plus? Some older receiver/amps can't, and pretty much no televisions.


----------



## JC Fedorczyk

So I take it the latest update didn't fix the reboot issue?


----------



## bbrown9

JC Fedorczyk said:


> So I take it the latest update didn't fix the reboot issue?


No, I don't think so. The release notes that TiVoMargret posted didn't include it.


----------



## BiloxiGeek

The wife and I watched a bunch of "The IT Crowd" episodes yesterday via NetFlix streaming and it worked quite nicely until we finished watching the last episode. Trying to return to TiVo Central from the NetFlix app caused a reboot. I can't be 100% certain but I'm pretty sure that was the first NetFlix related reboot I've experienced.


----------



## JC Fedorczyk

Yeah that's part of the annoyance. I watched 2 or 3 episodes of something right after the update and thought it was fixed. Then got a crash after an hour of a movie and then got immediate crashes no matter what on another show.

I'm sure the randomness of the issue isn't helping identify a solution but man it sure would be nice to have it fixed.


----------



## pgoelz

I have had zero crashes and we watch a couple Netflix programs each night. There HAS to be something I am or am not doing that doesn't stimulate crashes. 

Roamio basic, 2TB
Hardwired (never set up WiFi)
28Mb/S internet, recenetly upgraded to 55Mb/S
~70mS pings to the Tivo site, give or take
Fixed IP, DNS set by DHCP
No Netflix rebuffering EVER except for one event where Comcast was having issues
Samsung 47" LCD
HDMI direct to the TV, no intervening device
Fixed 1080i output from the Roamio
Nearly constant recordings on at least one tuner

Should we all compare notes????

Paul


----------



## lessd

pgoelz said:


> I have had zero crashes and we watch a couple Netflix programs each night. There HAS to be something I am or am not doing that doesn't stimulate crashes.
> 
> Roamio basic, 2TB
> Hardwired (never set up WiFi)
> 28Mb/S internet, recenetly upgraded to 55Mb/S
> ~70mS pings to the Tivo site, give or take
> Fixed IP, DNS set by DHCP
> No Netflix rebuffering EVER except for one event where Comcast was having issues
> Samsung 47" LCD
> HDMI direct to the TV, no intervening device
> Fixed 1080i output from the Roamio
> Nearly constant recordings on at least one tuner
> 
> Should we all compare notes????
> 
> Paul


If your network drop out for a few milliseconds and you using Netflix that can cause a re-boot of the TiVo, depending what your doing.


----------



## leiff

not related to your problem but shouldn't you be using 1080 P fixed not 1080 I? in my testing that makes 720 P material looks better .


----------



## pgoelz

leiff said:


> not related to your problem but shouldn't you be using 1080 P fixed not 1080 I? in my testing that makes 720 P material looks better .


I'll try 1080p. I selected 1080i because that was what the Roamio claimed my TV preferred and because I figured it would give better fluidity to rapid motion. But I just noticed when I looked that 1080p is 60fps, not 30fps, so that might indeed be the preferred format except for older 480i programming that is broadcast as-is and not converted to progressive.

There was speculation a while back that it was resolution switching during Netflix playback that stimulated a reboot.  Is that still on the table?

Paul


----------



## CrispyCritter

Watching half-a-dozen Netflix shows a week, I haven't had a Netflix reboot for a couple of months (and then just one). I have a solid ethernet network; I agree that some folks problem may be their (or their ISP's) network since blips have caused reboots in the past.

A problem with the new app that I do see, is that I'm missing between 10 and 20% of all subtitles when I watch a subtitled show (anime mostly). If I rewind, I can see the subtitles that I missed, but that's a pain. This occurs on all the subtitled series I've watched, including ones that had no problems a month or so ago.


----------



## JC Fedorczyk

I'm running wireless. If it is indeed a network blip that causes the reboot that's a pretty big bug. Kick me out of Netflix and tell me there was a network error. And I'm ok with that. Don't reboot the whole machine.


----------



## bbrown9

I'm running with wired Ethernet so a network blip is less likely. But I agree, if a network blip can cause a reboot, that is a very serious bug and should never happen.


----------



## lessd

bbrown9 said:


> I'm running with wired Ethernet so a network blip is less likely. But I agree, if a network blip can cause a reboot, that is a very serious bug and should never happen.


I am wired also and I was talking about a blip from outside your home (including the C133 error), something you may have never noticed using most internet apps.


----------



## bbrown9

It still should not cause a system reboot.


----------



## lessd

bbrown9 said:


> It still should not cause a system reboot.


Nobody would or should disagree with that statement


----------



## BiloxiGeek

lessd said:


> Nobody would or should disagree with that statement


Careful, someone might interpret that as a challenge.


----------



## NYHeel

I had another Netflix reboot on my Roamio last night. It seems that every time I exit the Netflix app by pressing the live TV button (or maybe it's the Tivo button), I get a reboot.

Also, the sound was really terrible watching a show on Netflix. That same show on Netflix through my Apple TV sounded fine.


----------



## DVRMike

Netflix rebooted my TiVo last night. I have not had the TiVo reboot due to Netflix before that. My internet connection was intermittent yesterday so that goes along with the theory that Netflix crashes when the internet connection has a problem.


----------



## chrispitude

Dan203 said:


> Does anyone know if there is an alternate to the now removed "play from beginning" option? If you stop a movie, show, whatever before you get to the very end (i.e. during the credits) it doesn't reset to the start. So if you want to watch it again you now have to RW all the way back to the start, which is a huge PITA. I found that if I use my iPad to do it I can drag the bar to reset it back to the beginning, but that's not always convenient. Is there some other way, a secret key combo maybe, to jump back to the start of a program?


THIS! Thank you for posting this. I can't believe they removed such a basic piece of functionality.


----------



## moyekj

Our family used Netflix so much this month since getting new Netflix that I actually got a warning email from Cox saying our data limit (250GB/month) has been greatly exceeded (275GB so far). 1st time we've been over that much. I'm hoping this is not a common concurrence requiring next Internet tier. 250 GB limit is pretty ridiculously low IMO, and next tier up which is $12/month more is still only a 300GB max limit.


----------



## lessd

Just last night I had to re-sign into Netflix on my Roamio +, the first time sign is needed, and when TiVo/Netflix changes the interface maybe a new sign in is needed, but nothing happened Sunday that I would think needed another full sign in, nobody beside myself uses the Roamio I am referring to, do other have to re-sign in at random times also ?? (this has been the 3rd random sign in on this Roamio I have had in the last 3 months) OR does Netflix have a once a month sign-in policy per unit ??


----------



## kbmb

lessd said:


> Just last night I had to re-sign into Netflix on my Roamio +, the first time sign is needed, and when TiVo/Netflix changes the interface maybe a new sign in is needed, but nothing happened Sunday that I would think needed another full sign in, nobody beside myself uses the Roamio I am referring to, do other have to re-sign in at random times also ?? (this has been the 3rd random sign in on this Roamio I have had in the last 3 months) OR does Netflix have a once a month sign-in policy per unit ??


I also had to sign in again yesterday on my Roamio.

Quite annoying is sit down all ready to watch a movie and have to go grab phone to lookup password and enter it.

-Kevin


----------



## lessd

kbmb said:


> I also had to sign in again yesterday on my Roamio.
> 
> Quite annoying is sit down all ready to watch a movie and have to go grab phone to lookup password and enter it.
> 
> -Kevin


OK so TiVo/Netflix is not just picking on me, does anyone know why the repeating sign in, is it a Netflix requirement or a hardware/software bug ?? I have never had to repeat a Netflix sign in on my PC, and it has been years. (Same PC)


----------



## kbmb

lessd said:


> OK so TiVo/Netflix is not just picking on me, does anyone know why the repeating sign in, is it a Netflix requirement or a hardware/software bug ??


I'd have to imagine it's a Tivo thing/bug. I never have to re-sign into Netflix on my ATV.

-Kevin


----------



## CloudAtlas

lessd said:


> OK so TiVo/Netflix is not just picking on me, does anyone know why the repeating sign in, is it a Netflix requirement or a hardware/software bug ?? I have never had to repeat a Netflix sign in on my PC, and it has been years. (Same PC)


A hardware bug? TiVo uses off the shelf hardware (Pace makes the boxes for TiVo) so let's just rule this one out. If you google "netflix not retaining login information" you will see every platform mentioned so this is not a TiVo bug.

When a major update to the Netflix client is installed you sometimes have to re-enter login information again. I've had to do that on my PS3 and Roku many times over the years. I've had HBOGo do the same.


----------



## aaronwt

Thus is where the slide remote comes in handy. With it you can quickly enter login info.


----------



## kbmb

aaronwt said:


> Thus is where the slide remote comes in handy. With it you can quickly enter login info.


My problem is remembering the random password generated for my Netflix....so I always have to grab my iPhone/iPad to look that up first.

-Kevin


----------



## lessd

CloudAtlas said:


> A hardware bug? TiVo uses off the shelf hardware (Pace makes the boxes for TiVo) so let's just rule this one out. If you google "netflix not retaining login information" you will see every platform mentioned so this is not a TiVo bug.
> 
> When a major update to the Netflix client is installed you sometimes have to re-enter login information again. I've had to do that on my PS3 and Roku many times over the years. I've had HBOGo do the same.


Sign in over the years, that would no be any problem, I am talking about a sign in every month or two, last Sunday (for example) I don't think any Netflix/TiVo upgrade was installed, so why did I have to re-sign in ?


----------



## mikeyts

I finally got the new Netflix player on Premiere today. It's interesting that profiles work for it but not on Roamio.


----------



## CloudAtlas

lessd said:


> Sign in over the years, that would no be any problem, I am talking about a sign in every month or two, last Sunday (for example) I don't think any Netflix/TiVo upgrade was installed, so why did I have to re-sign in ?


Your first update to Netflix a couple of months ago was to the HTML5 Netflix client and the recent update was to the all new native client Netflix. Previously Netflix hadn't been updated on TiVo in over a year.

Just today both Netflix & HBOGo on my Samsung TV prompted me for login info.

I've also noticed if I haven't logged in on a certain platform in awhile it will prompt you. I guess in case you were over someone's house and logged in with your credentials that they don't get a free ride forever.


----------



## mikeyts

The new client is still Javascript, etc, just running in a pared down, purpose-optimized "browser" of Netflix's design.

I just had my first crash while playing a title in the Netflix client on my Roamio basic. It happened while I was recording from one tuner (sadly I have a two piece recording with a 3-4 minute gap ).


----------



## pautler

When I log into my netflix account via the web I see my profile and my wife's profile, and can switch back and forth between them. When I log in via my TiVo Roamio it puts me into my profile, and I can't seem to figure out how to access my wife's profile. It seems like it should be under the 'settings' section in the menu, but there isn't much there. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

-Joe


----------



## mikeyts

Profiles worked for a short while after the new Netflix player appeared on Roamio (like a single day or so) and then stopped working, all signs of them disappearing (I can't remember whether they were working with the HTML5 player that shipped on Roamio). There's been no explanation why. Profiles have worked on Premiere since I finally got the new Netflix player on it.


----------



## pautler

mikeyts said:


> Profiles worked for a short while after the new Netflix player appeared on Roamio (like a single day or so) and then stopped working, all signs of them disappearing (I can't remember whether they were working with the HTML5 player that shipped on Roamio). There's been no explanation why. Profiles have worked on Premiere since I finally got the new Netflix player on it.


Aaaaahhh, ok. That explains it. Thanks!

I was starting to think I was missing something really simple because I saw earlier posts in this thread saying that profiles were now supported, but I guess I didn't read far enough through the thread to see that they were later pulled back from the Roamio for some reason.

Thanks again.

-Joe


----------



## ustavio

pautler said:


> When I log into my netflix account via the web I see my profile and my wife's profile, and can switch back and forth between them. When I log in via my TiVo Roamio it puts me into my profile, and I can't seem to figure out how to access my wife's profile. It seems like it should be under the 'settings' section in the menu, but there isn't much there. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -Joe


Try signing out of your profile on the Roamio then switching the profile to your wife's... on the computer. When you sign back in on the TiVo, your wife's should be the one that appears.Switch back to your profile the same way. It seems that this is the only way to switch profiles (although it doesn't work for everyone).


----------



## JC Fedorczyk

Any word on the supposed update to stop reboots?


----------



## lessd

JC Fedorczyk said:


> Any word on the supposed update to stop reboots?


When recording anything on my TiVo I will not, in the future, watch Netflix on the TiVo as it re-booted last night when 3 things were recording, I was not pressing any buttons just watching when the picture stopped and TiVo Roamio + rebooted, lost about 5 minutes of each program, a PITA. (I can also watch Netflix on my Smart HDTV)


----------



## Woodburner

Count me as another one with the netflix reboot. At least the Roamio boots up alot faster than my series 3.


----------



## pgoelz

FWIW, we are watching Netflix right now and there are massive issues between Comcast and other non-Comcast destinations in the last 30-45 minutes. I get 55Mb/S from me to Comcast Detroit (using their speed test) and about 1Mb/S to Comcast Chicago (also using the Comcast speed test app). Using Speakeasy Speed Test to Los Angeles, I get 0.22 Mb/S. Netflix is frequently freezing and re-buffering and flipping between HD and very low resolution. So far (knock on wood) no reboots. So simple network issues are not what would seem to trigger a reboot. 

Paul


----------



## lessd

pgoelz said:


> FWIW, we are watching Netflix right now and there are massive issues between Comcast and other non-Comcast destinations in the last 30-45 minutes. I get 55Mb/S from me to Comcast Detroit (using their speed test) and about 1Mb/S to Comcast Chicago (also using the Comcast speed test app). Using Speakeasy Speed Test to Los Angeles, I get 0.22 Mb/S. Netflix is frequently freezing and re-buffering and flipping between HD and very low resolution. So far (knock on wood) no reboots. So simple network issues are not what would seem to trigger a reboot.
> 
> Paul


Change in speed is not the same as the network going down altogether, but I don't know for sure what causes the random TiVo/Netflix re-boot.


----------



## ustavio

lessd said:


> I don't know for sure what causes the random TiVo/Netflix re-boot.


Neither, apparently does TiVo and/or Netflix.


----------



## rainwater

Looks like profiles are back on the Netflix app. Not sure when this update hit but I noticed it today.


----------



## kbmb

rainwater said:


> Looks like profiles are back on the Netflix app. Not sure when this update hit but I noticed it today.


I'm seeing the same thing here.....profile support on my Roamio.

-Kevin


----------



## ustavio

I've noticed profiles as well  Netflix UI is up one from previous. HD bitrate is still 3850 kbps, so no SuperHD at the moment (although it's spotty at best anyway). Fingers are crossed.


----------



## ustavio

ustavio said:


> I've noticed profiles as well  Netflix UI is up one from previous. HD bitrate is still 3850 kbps, so no SuperHD at the moment (although it's spotty at best anyway). Fingers are crossed.


Update: Been wondering why subtitles are no longer yellow (got used to them) and haphazard sizes. After logging into my Netflix account to see what's what, I noticed that one can now choose the style and color of subtitles for each account. My wife can use BIG WHITE subtitles and I can use the smaller yellow subtitles I prefer.


----------



## mikeyts

I discovered that a couple of weeks ago and started a thread on AVS Forum about it: "News Flash--You Can Set Netflix Subtitle Appearance!".

It has multiple uses. If you use a service like Unblock-US.com to view titles from the Netflix catalogs of other regions you'll find that sometimes there are forced subtitles on English language content in some regions (almost always in some). For example, in the Brazil and Mexico regions you almost always have to have subtitles in either Spanish or Brazilian Portuguese; there is no option for "no subtitles". Using the subtitle appearance setting you can display those subtitles as small black text on a black background which will show up as tiny little black bars, much less distracting than text in a language that you can't read; if the film is in scope AR it will likely get "displayed" in the letterboxing bars .


----------



## PaperFriend

Profiles on my Roamio also


----------



## mckingsley

Hallelujah. I can finally get the kids back on the Tivo and not have to have them switch to the PS3 to watch netflix.


----------



## HarperVision

I'm sure this is in preparation for CES. Gotta look good for the press!


----------



## rainwater

HarperVision said:


> I'm sure this is in preparation for CES. Gotta look good for the press!


I doubt that is the reason. I hardly think TiVo or Netflix will be making a big deal about them adding this feature back.


----------



## CloudAtlas

> HarperVision said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure this is in preparation for CES. Gotta look good for the press!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rainwater said:
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt that is the reason. I hardly think TiVo or Netflix will be making a big deal about them adding this feature back.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

The only timing is that it's the first full week back since the holidays when most staff took off. What company is going to push out software around the holidays? The Premiere boxes got this release before the holidays.

What is the the version of the Netflix w/ Profiles?


----------



## mikeyts

CloudAtlas said:


> What is the the version of the Netflix w/ Profiles?


When you go to the player's menu and select the cog ("Version account information or sign out") you can look at Device Information, which gets you these version numbers:


> Software Version
> 20.3.8-USA-6-846/2013.2.1
> 
> Netflix Version
> nrdapp 2013.2.1 / nrdlib 2013.2.1 / mdxlib 2013.2 / mdxjs 2.1.2-r51 / sdk 4.0.2-release-1933284 / nrdjs
> 
> UI Build
> release-42-p


I just happened to have recorded those numbers for the player on my Roamio Basic on the 23rd of last month (a cell phone pic); the only thing which has changed is that "UI Build" is now "release-45-p". I'd check the player on my Premiere, but it's not currently hooked up; my guess is that it's the same and has been at that UI release since it became available on Premiere.

The beauty of their architecture is that, being Javascript based, they can make patches to the UI code whenever you start the player without any device firmware update required. They've added very significant new features to the old HTML5/Webkit player that way, including the Netflix Kids UI and Profiles. Just run the player and new stuff is suddenly there.

EDIT: Strange thing is that I have a picture of that information for my Premiere from the 23rd which is identical (release-42-p) but I didn't get the new UI on Premiere until the 31st (you could get the information on the old player with UP UP DOWN DOWN LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT UP UP UP UP, an homage to a famous old Konami video game cheat code). I have an image of that information from the old "Flash" player from 8/3 and the format of the screen and the information on it was entirely different.

On 10/28 my Roamio was running "release-589-p" (everything else the same except for "mdxjs" was "2.0.6-r47"); on 11/18 it was running "release-20-p" (everything else the same as now).

EDIT EDIT: I recall that I was running the new Netflix player on my Premiere before I "officially" got it on the 31st by kicking it off using ktmmg. That would explain the version information that I got on the Premiere on 12/23.


----------



## AdamNJ

CloudAtlas said:


> The only timing is that it's the first full week back since the holidays when most staff took off. What company is going to push out software around the holidays? The Premiere boxes got this release before the holidays.
> 
> What is the the version of the Netflix w/ Profiles?


There are a lot of numbers I don't feel like typing under netflix version, but software version says: 20.3.8-usa-6-840/2013.2.1

Ui build:release-45-p


----------



## the block

Profiles are working on my Roamio & Mini as of last night as well. Finally.


----------



## anthonymoody

ustavio said:


> ... My wife can have BIG WHITE ones and I can little yellow ones.....


Thank god for context.


----------



## steinbch

Happy that profiles are working, but is anyone having trouble getting HD to stream? I'm getting the highest bit rate using my appleTV, but the Roamio won't budge past 480p bitrates.


----------



## bbrown9

steinbch said:


> Happy that profiles are working, but is anyone having trouble getting HD to stream? I'm getting the highest bit rate using my appleTV, but the Roamio won't budge past 480p bitrates.


How are you determining what your bitrates are?


----------



## ustavio

anthonymoody said:


> Thank god for context.


Thanks for pointing this out. I make changes in the wording of my post to insure that context was no longer necessary to fully comprehend content.


----------



## ustavio

bbrown9 said:


> How are you determining what your bitrates are?


Netflix has a odd though entertaining short (11 minute) test video called "Example Short 23.976" which will provide information on SD (480p) or HD (1920 x1080p) and bitrates3.8. Regular HD comes in at @ 3.8 mbps and SuperHD is @ 5.7. I think it's the difference between 60 fps and 24 fps. I'm not real sure. Someone with more background could probably expand on this. It will also test audio with various live sounds although just annoying tones if you have Dolby enabled.

With the new UI, I have been seeing fairly consistent 1080p at 3.8ish but every now and then SuperHD makes a visit. I can get most of the information if I display information using my Blu-ray but not as much if I hit info on the Roamio.


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## steinbch

ustavio said:


> Netflix has a odd though entertaining short (11 minute) test video called "Example Short 23.976" which will provide information on SD (480p) or HD (1920 x1080p) and bitrates3.8.


This is how I'm doing it. Strange, but also seeing the low bitrates from my TV (Panasonic VT60). The only device able to get HD is the AppleTV. All devices are hard wired except for the TV. All devices were getting HD signals until at least mid December. Time of day doesn't seem to have an impact either.


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## mikeyts

Just a nit--720p is also HD, available on Netflix at 2350- and 3000 Kbps. It is the resolution of ABC HD, Fox HD and most HD cable channels and many if not most HD streaming services and was the only HD resolution available on Netflix until a few years ago.


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## rainwater

mikeyts said:


> Just a nit--720p is also HD, available on Netflix at 2350- and 3000 Kbps. It is the resolution of ABC HD, Fox HD and most HD cable channels and many if not most HD streaming services and was the only HD resolution available on Netflix until a few years ago.


True. Although with Netflix it is not really the resolution that matters. The higher the bitrate, the better quality the encode is. So while 720p is fine for HD channels, the encodes on Netflix that are 720p are no where near as good as the "Super HD" ones. It that has little to do with the resolution.


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## ustavio

Sigh.  Had another reboot just after midnight. Everything seemed to be working just fine with the "return of the profiles" (hmmm...sounds like the name of a reunion tour for an 80s band). No change in Netflix UI. No overt changes. No network loss or bizarre fluctuations on my end that I could detect. Nothing. Zip. Nada. Just another out of the blue "Hey, think I'll reboot just for the heck of it because I can" kind of of reboot. Think the longest I've gone without a reboot at any time since buying the Roamio is 12 days. This time I squeezed only 8 days out of it. Also, this time it took 7-8 minutes to reboot. Seemed a bit longer than usual.

If only a certain percentage of people on this forum experience reboots (and assuming they are reported here), one can only wonder how many folks who aren't even aware of the forum experience them. There must be some common denominators for those who do and those who don't.


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## JC Fedorczyk

Where the heck is Tivo Margaret. She had mentioned something last year about an upcoming release that was supposed to fix this and now nothing.


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## HarperVision

She's probably just getting back and settled in from CES I would think.


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## hefe

I'm not having reboots, but I've started getting Netflix not connecting errors.


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## ncfoster

Sorry if I am going over old territory, but my two irritations with the current Netflix app on my Roamio Pro are:

1) Video almost always starts at a low quality. This is similar to what I experienced on my Premiere, which I almost never would use for Netflix. On my PS3, things almost always start at a high quality. I don't always check to see exactly what the quality is, but it is at least 720p. The upshot is that when I am watching a show when a show doesn't open with credits, etc., I get very irritated with the quality. This persists when I am watching a series of episodes. Each subsequent episode goes back to the low streaming quality before it ramps up to HD or "SuperHD" levels.

I suspect that this is unavoidable without changes by Tivo/Netflix on the app, but I'd love to be wrong.

2. When I try to track what sorts of quality are coming in, I press the info button to get the quality information in the corner. If I press it again to make that information go away, part of the overlay remains, and the part that disappears is fully transparent. This is quite unpleasant, and I haven't found a way past this glitch, other than to get out of the show, and get back into it. Am I missing something? Is everyone seeing this behavior?

Optimistic that the second problem will be an easy bug fix. Pessimistic that the slow quality throttling is by-design, and will drive me back to my PS3 for any "critical viewing". At least the kids don't seem to care for their stuff.


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## kbmb

ncfoster said:


> 2. When I try to track what sorts of quality are coming in, I press the info button to get the quality information in the corner. If I press it again to make that information go away, part of the overlay remains, and the part that disappears is fully transparent. This is quite unpleasant, and I haven't found a way past this glitch, other than to get out of the show, and get back into it. Am I missing something? Is everyone seeing this behavior?
> 
> Optimistic that the second problem will be an easy bug fix. Pessimistic that the slow quality throttling is by-design, and will drive me back to my PS3 for any "critical viewing". At least the kids don't seem to care for their stuff.


After you press the info button to remove the info, press the down arrow to bring up the play bar, then press the up arrow to hide the play bar.

That should remove all bit rate info from the screen.

-Kevin


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## mikeyts

The stream info bobble isn't a bug, since it's an undocumented debugging tool . There've been problems with it before, some of which took months for them to get around to repairing. As long as it doesn't bother the developers they've got better things to do.

Be happy that it's available at all; most devices don't have it.


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## lessd

ncfoster said:


> 1) Video almost always starts at a low quality. This is similar to what I experienced on my Premiere, which I almost never would use for Netflix. On my PS3, things almost always start at a high quality. I don't always check to see exactly what the quality is, but it is at least 720p. The upshot is that when I am watching a show when a show doesn't open with credits, etc., I get very irritated with the quality. This persists when I am watching a series of episodes. Each subsequent episode goes back to the low streaming quality before it ramps up to HD or "SuperHD" levels.


In the Netflix site you can set your quality, the default is auto, that why you may have your problem, try setting the quality to the highest and that may solve your problem as I never have your problem of starting at low quality, my Netflix comes out at 1080p /24 all the time using my Roamio plus and a MoCA interface.


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## kbmb

lessd said:


> In the Netflix site you can set your quality, the default is auto, that why you may have your problem, try setting the quality to the highest and that may solve your problem as I never have your problem of starting at low quality, my Netflix comes out at 1080p /24 all the time using my Roamio plus and a MoCA interface.


I have mine set to High in Netflix and both my Roamios are hardwired to a 50/10 Comcast connection. Both Roamios start at low quality most of the time and ramp up.

By far my ATV is the fastest most reliable Netflix client I have. It always starts and stays at the highest level....plus the interface is faster than Tivo.

-Kevin


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## mikeyts

lessd said:


> In the Netflix site you can set your quality, the default is auto, that why you may have your problem, try setting the quality to the highest and that may solve your problem as I never have your problem of starting at low quality, my Netflix comes out at 1080p /24 all the time using my Roamio plus and a MoCA interface.


I really don't think that has much if anything to do with it. The "High" setting has an explicit limit, 3 GB/hour. If that limit is observed you could not get the 12 Mbps 3D encodes, which are 5.5 GBph w/192 Kbps DD+ 5.1 sound; you'd have to set it to "Auto".


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## ncfoster

lessd said:


> In the Netflix site you can set your quality, the default is auto, that why you may have your problem, try setting the quality to the highest and that may solve your problem as I never have your problem of starting at low quality, my Netflix comes out at 1080p /24 all the time using my Roamio plus and a MoCA interface.


Thanks for the suggestion, but I tend to agree that it doesn't affect the Tivo. It was already set on High. If I had to guess, the setting only affects playback on the web, but maybe it will throttle other devices.


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## spincut

mikeyts said:


> TiVo Roamio now gets my vote for the best Netflix player of several devices I have with Netflix players attached to TVs (PS3, Roku 3, Roku 2 XS, TiVo Premiere, TiVo Series3, Xbox 360, WD TV Live, 2 Panasonic and one Sony BDP and the various ways of playing Netflix on this PC). The PS3 previously held that title and my old TiVo Premiere featured one of the worst.
> 
> Navigation of the UI is fairly snappy; it starts up in 8 seconds and starts streams in about 3 seconds, immediately jumping to the highest available bit rate video encode and usually sticking there. It features a version of the stream info overlay that I really like (toggled on and off with INFO) which even has an indication of bit rate so you can tell which "720 HD" or "1080 Super HD" encode you're looking at.
> 
> TiVos can also output Netflix at 1080p24, a fairly rare capability.
> 
> It replaces my Roku 3 as my Netflix viewing platform of choice.


I was browsing the web looking for stuff on the Tivo Roamio netflix app and how bad it is, but this seems to be more the concensus instead.

It's not so much that my Roamio's netflix app doesn't work, it just doesn't work nearly as well as, say, my PS3 one. It takes A LOT longer to get to a decent HD quality look, and even when it does it's a noticeable smidge less sharp and good looking than what the PS3 can produce.

What's the deal? Do I maybe have this older Netflix app people are talking about? I doubt that's the case given my Roamio has updated pretty decently and the app otherwise seems up to date...but yeah, the performance is certainly lacking.

I don't know where the option is to display the bitrate, but I'd really like to get that up for further testing, as I'm definitely not getting this implied level of performance, whereas my PS3 has (but of course using my Tivo in many instances is a lot more convenient, so I'd like to get this issue addressed).


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## rainwater

spincut said:


> It's not so much that my Roamio's netflix app doesn't work, it just doesn't work nearly as well as, say, my PS3 one. It takes A LOT longer to get to a decent HD quality look, and even when it does it's a noticeable smidge less sharp and good looking than what the PS3 can produce.


There are several issues that can cause your results to be different. It is possible the network on your Roamio is not as stable. Are you using wireless? Are both your PS3 and TiVo wired? Also, do you have them on different inputs? Are both your inputs calibrated with the same settings? Most modern tvs have different settings for each input.

For me, the Roamio is the only client (although the Xbox One does sometimes) that starts with the highest quality.



spincut said:


> I don't know where the option is to display the bitrate


Just hit info on your remote while you are streaming Netflix to see the bitrate info.


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## spincut

rainwater said:


> There are several issues that can cause your results to be different. It is possible the network on your Roamio is not as stable. Are you using wireless? Are both your PS3 and TiVo wired? Also, do you have them on different inputs? Are both your inputs calibrated with the same settings? Most modern tvs have different settings for each input.
> 
> For me, the Roamio is the only client (although the Xbox One does sometimes) that starts with the highest quality.
> 
> Just hit info on your remote while you are streaming Netflix to see the bitrate info.


None of those potential issues are applicable. The PS3 and Roamio are both on the same wireless network, (and the PS3 is a lot older of a device, so I would not expect it's wireless chip or capabilities to be superior..). I also tried switching the Roamio to my 2.4ghz band just to see if it would help, and it didn't.

As for the inputs, that has absolutely zero to do with it, this is about streaming quality/performance. But they are on the same input given I use a receiver. But even if they weren't, that isn't the issue.


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## rainwater

spincut said:


> As for the inputs, that has absolutely zero to do with it, this is about streaming quality/performance. But they are on the same input given I use a receiver. But even if they weren't, that isn't the issue.


You would be surprised how many people think there is an issue because they never configure their settings except on their main input. What people perceive as poor streaming quality can also be a terrible picture setup on a certain input. That said, the issue you are having is not normal as the Roamio quality for Netflix streaming is the same or better than any device I have tried (Roku, Apple TV, Xbox One, etc).


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## nooneuknow

Maybe instead of advising those who can't figure out the inputs have different settings, to calibrate their inputs, they should be advised to get a HDMI switch, and run all streaming devices to the TV input that looks best to them.

I have to admit, as technical a guy as I am, I took the easy way and made my settings apply to all inputs. I can tweak the picture enough with mode profile presets, to deal with different content. I'm not sure if all sets have that ability, thus the idea of the HDMI switch. But, Sony Bravia TVs + HDMI switch + Roamio = too many added issues added to with direct HDMI-connect, for me... I never had so many HDMI issues with TiVo HDs or Premieres.


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## spincut

rainwater said:


> You would be surprised how many people think there is an issue because they never configure their settings except on their main input. What people perceive as poor streaming quality can also be a terrible picture setup on a certain input. That said, the issue you are having is not normal as the Roamio quality for Netflix streaming is the same or better than any device I have tried (Roku, Apple TV, Xbox One, etc).


I would be surprised indeed, especially since that is NOT the issue, like I already implied.

Seriously, I can understand how perhaps a layman may mistake a poor netflix bitrate for their picture settings being wrong input being off but not only is that most definitely not what's going on with me, but it's not even remotely close/possible. IF my picture settings being off was the issue, I would notice right away given how I have my television and home theater setup.

Anyway, it was quite literally a bitrate ceiling, which as of last night, I fixed by switching to a 5.8ghz wireless band (albeit lower signal strength, which is why I had it on the 2.4ghz in the first place). I will say though, some of this fault lies with the Tivo, because I have several devices sitting near and around it that get much better reception, leading me to believe it's wireless chip just isn't quite as good (although to be fair, despite whatever issues I was having with the 5.8ghz band earlier that caused me to make this initial change, once I switched back things did eventually kick all the way up to 1080p super HD, which I didn't even think I was still able to get  ) .

Seems like the next order of business is to get a newer AC Wireless router (even though the Tivo wifi chip is not AC, I'm sure a top end AC wireless router will still have some sort of meaty range boosting antennae system that would trump my aging draft-n Netgear situation).


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## nooneuknow

The Roamio wireless operates at both 2.4 & 5GHz (or 5.8 as you said)? If so, concurrently?

Last I checked, I thought only cordless phones operated at 5.8GHz (older ones, right before DECT took them way down below 2.4GHz).


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## Dan203

It's 5GHz. The Roamio does support 5GHz. Not sure what you mean by concurrently. It's a single device so it can only have one connection at a time. (it doesn't do wifi bridging)


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## nooneuknow

Dan203 said:


> It's 5GHz. The Roamio does support 5GHz. Not sure what you mean by concurrently. It's a single device so it can only have one connection at a time. (it doesn't do wifi bridging)


Dual-band WiFi 2.4 & 5GHz at same time, as opposed to "switched" where you have to pick only one. Many devices went dual-band concurrent, while some stuck with 2.4 only, due to too many issues with 5GHz and walls/obstructions.

Wireless AC is dual-band concurrent to get the advertised speeds.

A netgear N900 router only operates at 450 per band (theoretical maximum speeds, of course). So, a dual-band device gets 900, while a single band device gets only 450, regardless of which one it uses.

Last I checked, the older devices need "3x3" (3tx x 3rx) antennas just to get 450 and in both directions (150 per antenna).

I have 5GHz on my router turned off, because I hardware everything but phones, and chromecasts (and my chromecasts only do 2.4GHz, even though I keep reading they can do 5Ghz - but not stable enough to bother with and not recommended).


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## spincut

nooneuknow said:


> Dual-band WiFi 2.4 & 5GHz at same time, as opposed to "switched" where you have to pick only one. Many devices went dual-band concurrent, while some stuck with 2.4 only, due to too many issues with 5GHz and walls/obstructions.
> 
> Wireless AC is dual-band concurrent to get the advertised speeds.
> 
> A netgear N900 router only operates at 450 per band (theoretical maximum speeds, of course). So, a dual-band device gets 900, while a single band device gets only 450, regardless of which one it uses.
> 
> Last I checked, the older devices need "3x3" (3tx x 3rx) antennas just to get 450 and in both directions (150 per antenna).
> 
> I have 5GHz on my router turned off, because I hardware everything but phones, and chromecasts (and my chromecasts only do 2.4GHz, even though I keep reading they can do 5Ghz - but not stable enough to bother with and not recommended).


Hah, the router I've been using is the N600 (it was top of the line back when I got it and I don't believe anything above it existed at the time). It was great when I got it. I could even use it competently across the street from my place even, but either due to it somehow purposefully reigning in it's range (perhaps as a natural security measure?), or performance degradation over time (I've heard that can happen?), it doesn't seem to have the range oomph it used to.

Anyway, it still does do the trick in this case, but I have been pondering an AC router for a bit now given even without an AC chip I have to assume a top end one would have a lot of power and range behind it.

Anyway, I don't know much about this "concurrent" business, it almost sounds like a bad idea to let the router try and auto switch things? But yeah, in my case and with my router, I pick the band. Even at my routers best it seems it has trouble getting the full brunt of my internet speeds, I never realized that wireless stuff had so much lost to overhead, bringing us down a long way from those theoretical maximums (and even our top internet speeds).

But yeah, might be time to get one of those Netgear Nighthawks..


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## tatergator1

You mentioned above that both PS3 and Roamio are on wireless. Are you using the built-in wireless networking of the Roamio, or a separate Wi-Fi adapter hooked to the Ethernet port of the Roamio?

The internal wireless card in the Roamio has been the source of countless issues for people. Streaming quality issues are most likely associated with poor signal reception of the Roamio's internal wireless card.


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## Dan203

nooneuknow said:


> Dual-band WiFi 2.4 & 5GHz at same time, as opposed to "switched" where you have to pick only one. Many devices went dual-band concurrent, while some stuck with 2.4 only, due to too many issues with 5GHz and walls/obstructions.
> 
> Wireless AC is dual-band concurrent to get the advertised speeds.
> 
> A netgear N900 router only operates at 450 per band (theoretical maximum speeds, of course). So, a dual-band device gets 900, while a single band device gets only 450, regardless of which one it uses.
> 
> Last I checked, the older devices need "3x3" (3tx x 3rx) antennas just to get 450 and in both directions (150 per antenna).
> 
> I have 5GHz on my router turned off, because I hardware everything but phones, and chromecasts (and my chromecasts only do 2.4GHz, even though I keep reading they can do 5Ghz - but not stable enough to bother with and not recommended).


Yes but that all applies to the router or access point. The devices typically connect to one network at a time and IIRC the 2.4GHz and 5GHz legs typically present themselves to devices as two separate networks with different SSIDs. So TiVo can still only connect to one or the other, not both at the same time.

Although I'm not all that up on wifi technology, so if there is some way for a single network to actually transition from 2.4GHz to 5GHz then I'm not sure if the Roamio handles that or not. I use MoCa on mine so I never really played with the wifi part.


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## DeltaOne

Dan203 said:


> ...and IIRC the 2.4GHz and 5GHz legs typically present themselves to devices as two separate networks with different SSIDs.


I use Apple routers (Airport Extreme on one side of house, Airport Express on the other side of house) and both the 2.4 and 5 GHz networks have the same SSID (name). Makes things much simpler and easier.


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## spincut

tatergator1 said:


> You mentioned above that both PS3 and Roamio are on wireless. Are you using the built-in wireless networking of the Roamio, or a separate Wi-Fi adapter hooked to the Ethernet port of the Roamio?
> 
> The internal wireless card in the Roamio has been the source of countless issues for people. Streaming quality issues are most likely associated with poor signal reception of the Roamio's internal wireless card.


I was using built in wireless on the roamio, no adapters or anything, that would be...clunky  .

Interesting to hear about the internal wifi for the Roamio being problematic though, and I guess it makes sense. It's probably why I switched to my 2ghz band a while back, thinking I may have had too many problems with the 5ghz despite not too much distance or walls. But yeah, in switching back, while, say, stuff like the Netflix app hangs a tad longer before loading, I do get those top bitrates.

I'll credit the lower signal strength to the tivo's wifi just as much as the 5ghz band, but yeah, those Nighthawks are still looking pretty good as a bandwith and coverage upgrade..


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## nooneuknow

My Netgear WNDR3800 Premium is pretty terrible for wireless. I bought it for the built in TiVo functions, but soon found that its standard USB port, with a drive plugged in takes up all it's limited resources indexing data.

It's great as a wired router. The wireless has an option to "create a video network", which is only applicable to the 5GHz band.

Last I checked, the wireless built-into the Roamios was not intended for streaming video, but was there to allow the realtime TiVo service to operate, and for scheduled service connections. It was "you're on your own" if you tried to actually use it for streaming services, which might work, but TiVo did not provide support for if it didn't.

I don't need a lecture on setting up a wireless network correctly. I just bought three of the Netgear WNDR4700 Centria N900 ones http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122487 with internal drive bays at fire-sale pricing. They have AP and repeater modes, and I'll be strategically placing them around the house. $49 new? If at least one part of each one works decently, I'll be set, and it cost me $150. I did buy one at higher price before grabbing two more, but I think I still got it for half price, IIRC (shell-shocker, combo, or free w/modem deal). The biggest complaint about them is the internal fan is really loud. I'm sure I can fix that, or work around it.


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## ydc

DeltaOne said:


> I use Apple routers (Airport Extreme on one side of house, Airport Express on the other side of house) and both the 2.4 and 5 GHz networks have the same SSID (name). Makes things much simpler and easier.


Regardless of how the SSIDs present themselves, the 2.4 and 5GHz bands aren't used together to provide more bandwidth/speed. Those higher speeds are as a result of using multiple channels on a single band plus tricks using multiple antennas/streams. Of course this only applies when both ends of the wireless link support it, which most likely the built-in TiVo adapter doesn't. I think you'd have to use a separate wireless bridge for that.


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## DeltaOne

ydc said:


> Regardless of how the SSIDs present themselves, the 2.4 and 5GHz bands aren't used together to provide more bandwidth/speed.


Correct.

I should have been more clear -- the "makes things simpler and easier" was for folks using smartphones, tablets and laptops in our house. Each device chooses the best connection for it. Simple and easy.

My Roamio and two Minis are connected via Ethernet. I always use Ethernet for devices that stay in one place.


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## nooneuknow

[Apologies for the sidetrack/threadjack. I didn't intend it]

Well, unless somebody comes along and posts they have a client device that can pull both bands and diplex them to get the speeds advertised/marketed, I guess I fell victim to the how "gigabit" wireless routers that operate at half-speed per band, or at some other ratio of one band to the other, add the two together as the speed.

You don't see me post much on wireless, because I've never had good results with it, in over a decade of trying (a try with every standard since original "B", with 1x1 antenna). I try my best to read up and be a book smart expert, but try not to advise others, when that's all I am (obviously still not good for much, here). Even simple 1 AP + 1 client connections were just a lot of money for something that might only work (good enough) with animal sacrifice, done during an eclipse. Where I live, in a wireless saturated neighborhood, near a military base, have always been my cop-out suspects, mostly the the latter matter.

I already had a CM/router gateway device that had both bands, but you had to pick one, and then only use that one. I bought it, didn't use the wireless until I had a need to, then was fumed that it advertised both bands, but the part that it was "switched" (manually set one or the other, only) was left to the fine print in the download-only pdf manual. It also wasn't as easy as selecting one, and then selecting the other. I had to reconfigure everything upon each change.

I swear that I had seen client devices claiming dual band concurrent, or I would have taken the lesson learned, and applied it. I guess they can say "concurrent", as long as you don't have to pick one, and the device can pick on its own (or simply use what band SSID selected is on). Otherwise, that wouldn't be "concurrent" at all. But, that would be what I'd call "switched", and I'm sure I'm not alone in that.

What I'm failing to get, is how concurrent on 2.4 & 5GHz bands can't be done, when I'm using 2 neighboring bands on 2.4 to get 300, rather than the 150 I'd get without that setting. I've used tools like inSSIDer to look at things, and it's clear I'm using two bands of frequency in the range 2.4 can use. Why can't one band be 2.4 and the other 5GHz, then? It seems like the same thing to me, since it IS 2 bands at different starting frequencies, just adjacent. But, I do recognize that 2.4/5 are not "adjacent"...

So here comes the question I am having a hard time with, due to novices playing experts, and the experts not making things easy for novices. What happens when you have a wireless AC router, with any number of ways the total speed is divided between the two (lets say AC "gigabit" 350+700), and what you have in the rest of the home is a mix of non-AC 2.4/5 ABGN devices? Do all of them still get full backward compatible rates, without loss of any bands, and/or incurring penalties?

From what I think I know, and I've seen the "experts" make the same conclusions with, It's absurd to drop big money on AC, when it always takes the amount of time for the next better standard to come out, before the last one has been revised and refined enough to reach maturity, even more absurd if you have no AC-supporting client devices.

Last questions. Some yell from up on high, that using 2.4GHz channels, other than those without overlap, is the worst thing you can do. My current router can hop to any channel to make sure it's not on the same channel as the whole street. It would do this often, always picking channels other than the standard ones. Some say this is the worst thing one can do, due to overlap. I say, what does it matter, when there is no such thing as overlap-free in my airspace? My airspace is fully saturated with uber-strong (any stronger and microwave popcorn wouldn't need a microwave) neighboring signals, and there is no such thing as congestion & overlapping-free airspace here.


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## aaronwt

Dan203 said:


> Yes but that all applies to the router or access point. The devices typically connect to one network at a time and IIRC the 2.4GHz and 5GHz legs typically present themselves to devices as two separate networks with different SSIDs. So TiVo can still only connect to one or the other, not both at the same time.
> 
> Although I'm not all that up on wifi technology, so if there is some way for a single network to actually transition from 2.4GHz to 5GHz then I'm not sure if the Roamio handles that or not. I use MoCa on mine so I never really played with the wifi part.


The Roamio will automatically connect to 2.4 Ghz if the 5ghz goes down. Or go from 2.4 to 5ghz. At least that is how it works on my network. But I also have three APs that each have the same SSIDs for both 2.4 and 5 Ghz.


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## rainwater

Back on topic, I'm glad that Netflix finally brought back "Play from beginning". I was beginning to wonder if we would ever see that feature again. That is one of the few gripes I still have left with the TiVo app.


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## Henry Guerrar

Thats awesome!!!


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