# Moxi now offers a 3 tuner model



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Apparenly Moxi just announced a 3 tuner model for 799 which also includes the Moxi Mate which you can use to stream content to another room. They also dropped the price of the 2 tuner model to 499.

I wish I knew someone who had one so I could at least play with it. For now I am covered between Windows 7, my 360s, and Tivo, but it is definitely nice to see someone offering more tuners even if it is only an additional one.

Moxi Fall update comes with a lower price and a new 3 tuner model



> The most notable news today from Moxi's new owner Arris though is a new three tuner HD DVR, which we believe is the first to break the two tuner barrier (that isn't PC based). The new model is only available bundled with either one, or two Moxi Mates for $799 or $999. You can still buy the dual tuner version by itself which now retails for $499 instead of $799 -- don't forget, Moxi doesn't charge service fees -- and the Moxi Mate itself is now $299 instead of $399.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

The Fall update also brings liveTV to the "Moxi Mate" extenders using the tuners in a Moxi located elsewhere in the home.

With the new triple-tuner Moxi, you can watch one liveTV channel on the Moxi, another liveTV channel on Moxi Mate extender, and yet another liveTV channel on a second Moxi Mate extender. You can do all this with a single CableCard (M-CARD).


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

Tivo better step it up now. Moxi with 3 tuners and no subscription service....pretty tempting.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

With a dual-tuner Moxi *500GB* at $499 with a lifetime subscription, I have a difficult time recommending the TiVo. That's a price point TiVo really needs to hit.

I like the way they've redone their web site too.


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## gilbreen (Sep 5, 2007)

Does anyone know if one can pull shows off a Moxi onto one's PC?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

gilbreen said:


> Does anyone know if one can pull shows off a Moxi onto one's PC?


No, that's not a feature Moxi offers.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

gilbreen said:


> Does anyone know if one can pull shows off a Moxi onto one's PC?


I don't think so - they certainly don't advertise such a feature. It's a non-starter for me if you can't pull shows off the unit and do further processing with them. Even MCE can do that now DRM free for CCI=0x0 content. MCE with 4-tuner Ceton cards looks a lot more enticing to me. If Moxi is smart perhaps they can adapt a cheaper version of the "Moxi Mate" to be used as an MCE Extender?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

moyekj said:


> If Moxi is smart perhaps they can adapt a cheaper version of the "Moxi Mate" to be used as an MCE Extender?


I think Moxi has about as much interest in MCE or a MCE extender as TiVo. That's the competition.

The BOM on the Moxi Mate is probably less than $60. They are trying to recover software/hardware R&D and other costs.


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

I love it how they "dropped the price" on the 2 tuner model. I sincerely doubt they actually dropped the price to continue selling the model in the future. My bet is that they are on clearance and when they are gone, they are gone.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Yep, smells like a clearance sale to me too. I don't think Arris bought Digeo for the hardware.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

bkdtv said:


> With a dual-tuner Moxi *500GB* at $499 with a lifetime subscription, I have a difficult time recommending the TiVo. That's a price point TiVo really needs to hit.
> 
> I like the way they've redone their web site too.


It is a nice web site! I was curious about how Moxi's handle SDV and found this in the FAQ's:



> Yes, Moxi supports Switched Digital Video. You can get a Switched Digital Video adapter from your cable service provider. You should know that if you purchase a 3 tuner Moxi that some cable service providers do not support three tuners with their adapters, and you will only have access to two tuners. Contact your cable service provider to find out whether you're in one of those areas


I see Moxi's require an M-Card. My TWC (arrgghh!) insists they only have S-Cards, even though I know from forum posters in my service area they were providing M-Cards earlier this year. TWC = Arrrghh! If I bought a Moxi, can I force TWC to supply an M-Card ?


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## Dmon4u (Jul 15, 2000)

On my most crowded nights this TV Season I need 4 Tuners. I do recall a night, years ago, that I needed 5 or 6. Currently I use a TiVo HD, a DTV Pal DVR, and the Tuner in my HD TV when necessary.

So, it looks like Moxi may be my answer in the future since this probably means they will jump on the 4 to 6 Tuner bandwagon when that becomes available early next year.

Of course, that depends on the TV Networks. If quality shows keep disappearing, next Fall I might need only one Tuner.

To each his own !


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

Dmon4u said:


> On my most crowded nights this TV Season I need 4 Tuners. I do recall a night, years ago, that I needed 5 or 6.
> 
> So, it looks like Moxi may be my answer in the future since this probably means they will jump on the 4 to 6 Tuner bandwagon when that becomes available early next year.
> 
> ...


I doubt we will be seeing them move to 4 or 6 tuners any time soon, or at least at the same price point they have for the 3 tuner. You have to remember to make these things even reasonably cheap, you have to have reasonably large production runs. If the 3 tuner just came out, I doubt it is likely to be replaced any time soon as they are most likely already clearing out the 2 tuner stock. Plus there is no indication that their sales have been very big to begin with. I agree that it is an interesting product. In some ways I hope there becomes some price competition (although nothing beats the open box TivoHD I picked up from Sears last week for $20, even w/ MSD Lifetime).


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## spocko (Feb 4, 2009)

Resist said:


> Tivo better step it up now. Moxi with 3 tuners and no subscription service....pretty tempting.


Tivo already offers a no subscription service option, it's called "product lifetime service". Tivo offers a choice, Moxi doesn't.

$500 for a 500GB dual-tuner Moxi vs $650 for a 160GB dual-tuner Tivo with product lifetime service is a problem for Tivo though. Hopefully Tivo will come up with a way to be more competitive in this area.

Moxi still lacks some of Tivo's features. The inability to transfer recordings off the Moxi makes it uninteresting to me. Tivo also provides a much better Netflix solution.

The price of the Moxi Mate seems too high IMHO.


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## oosik77 (Nov 22, 1999)

I've been a Tivo user since the very early days. Been hanging in there with my HR10-250 and waiting for something new from Tivo. But time's up. I'm moving in a few weeks and this looks like it will be worth a try. Time to be a pioneer again I guess.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Another downside to Moxi is no OTA tuners (unless that's changed).


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

spocko said:


> ..........The price of the Moxi Mate seems too high IMHO.


Me too. Also, Moxi can't tune OTA with an antenna.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

oosik77 said:


> I've been a Tivo user since the very early days. Been hanging in there with my HR10-250 and waiting for something new from Tivo. But time's up. I'm moving in a few weeks and this looks like it will be worth a try. Time to be a pioneer again I guess.


Not that I care what you do, but you are going to move to something else when it has been announced that a new DirecTV DVR with Tivo service will be available in the next few months?


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## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

Tivo has always moved at a snail's pace for both software and hardware development. While this is practically unheard of in the consumer electronics industry (and usually means death), they have gotten away with it because of little competition in the area of advance features from the cable/sat DVR's.

I was dubious initially of Moxi's presence in this market but agree with one of the above posters that it is time for Tivo to step it up as they seem to be aggressively pursuing development.

Hard to teach an old dog new tricks though.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

bkdtv said:


> With a dual-tuner Moxi *500GB* at $499 with a lifetime subscription, I have a difficult time recommending the TiVo. That's a price point TiVo really needs to hit.
> 
> I like the way they've redone their web site too.


That's what I paid for my last two TiVoHD boxes which included lifetime service.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

solutionsetc said:


> Tivo has always moved at a snail's pace for both software and hardware development. While this is practically unheard of in the consumer electronics industry (and usually means death), they have gotten away with it because of little competition in the area of advance features from the cable/sat DVR's.


All DVR manufacturers were slowed by the pace of DVR CPU/SoC development. Without new, faster processors that integrate more functionality on the chip, you can't accomplish much with a new hardware product. And without these new, faster processors, you're stuck with the older processors and the limitations they place on the software.

Moxi was the first to take advantage of the faster Broadcom CPU/SoC hardware when it became available in volume earlier this year. TiVo is (a) waiting for even newer hardware -- now announced, but not yet shipping in volume yet, (b) waiting for cable companies to roll out their tru2way software, as necessary to support a tru2way product, (c) still working to update their software to take advantage of the new hardware, and/or (d) twiddling their thumbs.

Moxi doesn't support OTA so it was relatively inexpensive to update their hardware design for triple tuners. They had to add a third silicon tuner (a very small chip) and replace the existing dual-QAM demodulator with Broadcom's new triple-QAM demodulator. There was no need for another NTSC decoder, A/D converter, or encoder because they don't support analog in the box. _Disclaimer: I haven't opened a Moxi so I don't know whether that's what they've done._


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## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

Interesting. Very Interesting, but no OTA - a non-starter for me. And it does not appear possible to pull programming to my network, though with so much storage and the extenders... Who Knows?


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## deandashl (Aug 8, 2008)

The problem with Moxi has NEVER been the hardware. It's superior in every way. (No OTA tuner, the one exception, for the handful of people who care)

The problem is the software. Oh sure, it's HD and pretty. But every pro reviewer, I read, says it's cumbersome and awkward. 

Is the TiVo hardware out of date....yes.

Is the TiVo software look old and out of date....yes.

Is the TiVo HD still the best DVR available with the best functionality and features vs. all the competition?......yes.

Will that last forever?......no, and that horizon is becoming very visible.

I do like what Moxi is doing. Strengthen the software, get REAL built-in Netflix functionality...then we're talking.


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

I am interested also, thought the second-rate support for analog channels gives me pause. Granted, for most of you this isn't even an issue, but I do sometimes still record from Comcast's analogs. (Yes, I'm sure Comcast will dump analog entirely before too much longer.)

In any event, I'm going to keep an eye on Moxi now. I sure hope Tivo can do something innovative soon. The competition is really closing in on them.


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## jcaudle (Aug 16, 2004)

No new developments in 2 years. Moxi is interesting, but I am not sure the company has the financial legs to stay around, Tivo has been a survivor despite the fact that they haven't exactly been barn burners in delivering new technology since the delivery of the S3 over 3 years ago. The HD is and HDXL are only tweaks of the original S3...fortunately my neighborhood is about to get fios allowing me to dump Cox, so no more SDV (and tuning adapters) and Fios doesn't use the CCI flag preventing MRV. However Tivo should enable some method of streaming the prorgamming. Netflix isn't a big deal...you can get a roku, PS3, Xbox, or soon the Wii to get that to another tv....but to be able to stream the dvr to another room with out the copy protection issues would be useful.


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## eaglestvo (Dec 27, 2008)

Moxi has a Rhapsody player. I wonder how well it works. After more than two years, it still does not work on Tivo.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

bkdtv said:


> Moxi doesn't support OTA so it was relatively inexpensive to update their hardware design for triple tuners. They had to add a third silicon tuner (a very small chip) and replace the existing dual-QAM demodulator with Broadcom's new triple-QAM demodulator. There was no need for another NTSC decoder, A/D converter, or encoder because they don't support analog in the box. _Disclaimer: I haven't opened a Moxi so I don't know whether that's what they've done._


So does this mean 3 internal tuners + the analog adapter thing, for 4 tuners? (I guess I should look at their site.)

I'm one of the "luddites" who still records mostly analog. (I was "suckered" into the S3 with the "limited time" lifetime transfer option. The price I paid total for the TivoHD including lifetime transfer I'm perfectly happy with... and I still prefer the S3 hardware.. so I'm not knocking that.) So mostly I'm just curious.


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## mfogarty5 (Apr 27, 2006)

dlfl said:


> Also, Moxi can't tune OTA with an antenna.


But the Moxi can tune be used with clear QAM channels and no CableCard. Can the TiVo?


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

solutionsetc said:


> Tivo has always moved at a snail's pace for both software and hardware development.


When you say *"a snail's pace",* you may be overstating the rate of progress. I would suggest *"a glacial pace"* but that may also be overstating it because of climate change. 



> Hard to teach an old dog new tricks though.


I don't necessarily think that Tom Rogers is an "old dog". Maybe he's just not into "technology". He may simply be a glad-handing "media executive", busy making "deals", much too busy to worry about trivialities such as hardware or software development.

BTW I think it's eminently fair to criticize Rogers. He's the one pulling down the 7-figure salary. He's the head of the company. If he's not responsible, then exactly who is?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

If I was just getting around to wanting a DVR then those prices and a the third tuner would be very compelling - not sure how many would get that you need to have digital service to use the Moxi, but then if you are talking HD most likely are digital already.

if the new owners are actually serious about selling standalone DVRs or this is just something that was already far enough along it made more sense to continue it, time will tell.

If this is a serious push then it will be interesting to see if the new price point has any significant push in market share for Moxi. is there a standalone DVR market at this lower price point?


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## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

Yes, TiVo take a very

loooong time for software and products. They are going to lose soon.


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## oosik77 (Nov 22, 1999)

orangeboy said:


> Not that I care what you do, but you are going to move to something else when it has been announced that a new DirecTV DVR with Tivo service will be available in the next few months?


Ya well they originally announced it would be this year. Now they say next. It seems odd to me how long it takes Tivo to get a product to market. I remember how long the HR10-250 took originally. I'm just not confident that it will be early 2010 as their track record is not great for delivery dates.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I thought originally they were saying 2010?


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

Dmon4u said:


> On my most crowded nights this TV Season I need 4 Tuners. I do recall a night, years ago, that I needed 5 or 6. Currently I use a TiVo HD, a DTV Pal DVR, and the Tuner in my HD TV when necessary.
> ...
> To each his own !


A tuner in the TV set + 2 tuners in TiVo + 3 tuners in Moxi + Mate = all of TiVo's features + all of Moxi's features + a live TV overload feed for those 6 tuner moments! :up: :up::up: :up::up::up:


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## oosik77 (Nov 22, 1999)

aaronwt said:


> I thought originally they were saying 2010?


No the original announcement of their new agreement with DirecTv was in September of 2008:

http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2008/09/tivo-and-direct/


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## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

Tivo better start matching these offerings. I dont think 4 tuners is not that far off as the new norm.


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## jcaudle (Aug 16, 2004)

The Moxi equipment is interesting. But again, I am a bit worried about the stability of the company and its staying power. Remember ReplayTv. I am not sure Tivo hasn't exactly made much money over its history either. I probably wouldn't change because of the money presently invested in my System 3 Lifetime and Tivo HD. If Moxi is still around in another year or 2 and tivo hasn't updated then I might take another look. Moxi definately has a couple of interesting features.


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## NotVeryWitty (Oct 3, 2003)

jcaudle said:


> I am a bit worried about the stability of the company and its staying power. Remember ReplayTv. I am not sure Tivo hasn't exactly made much money over its history either.


Moxi was bought by Arris Group, Inc. in late September. Arris has a market cap slightly bigger than Tivo's, and looks like it has been profitable more often than not.

IMO, stability of the company has been eliminated as a factor in deciding whether or not to buy a Moxi DVR.


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## djwilso (Dec 23, 2006)

spocko said:


> Tivo already offers a no subscription service option, it's called "product lifetime service". Tivo offers a choice, Moxi doesn't.
> 
> $500 for a 500GB dual-tuner Moxi vs $650 for a 160GB dual-tuner Tivo with product lifetime service is a problem for Tivo though. Hopefully Tivo will come up with a way to be more competitive in this area.
> 
> ...


While TiVo currently offers Lifetime service, back in November 2006 when I was in the market for a TiVo, they certainly did not offer it.

The only choice at that time was to buy the Series 3 for *$800*. The only subscription choices at that time was a maximum of 3 years, no lifetime option.

And, as it stands today with Cox in Phoenix having every single digital channel set with CCI=0x02, there is no possibility of transferring shows off of the TiVo that I am aware of without modifying the TiVo with a new PROM.

So, while TiVo offers the choice now, they didn't always, and there is nothing that would stop them from taking away the choice again at any time, such as when the Series 4 ever comes out.


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## Scyber (Apr 25, 2002)

Just when I was looking to buy a 3rd TiVo, they have to go and do this and switch me back into indecision mode. Some very intriguing options here. 

Does anyone know if you can stream from one DVR to another (and not just the moxi mate)?


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

bkdtv said:


> With a dual-tuner Moxi *500GB* at $499 with a lifetime subscription, I have a difficult time recommending the TiVo. That's a price point TiVo really needs to hit.


I doubt it. As someone else said, it sounds like a fire sale. As to 3 tuners, I'm underwhelmed, especially since the unit apparently still requires a TA and the Cisco TA only supports 2 tuners at this time, anyway. The exxtra $300 is hardly an enticement. As to recommending the Moxi, even one deal breaker would be bad, and there are several, temporary though some might be at the moment:

Suggestions
3rd party development
Any services comparable to Galleon's suite of apps (17 of them at last count, as I recall), especially TTG, Music, and weather.
Any services comparable to pyTivo (Highlight: the new DVD functionality)
How easy is it for the owner to modify the hardware? (Unknown to me, so someone else chime in)



bkdtv said:


> I like the way they've redone their web site too.


Oooh, pinch me. That and $1.75 will buy a cup of coffee, most places.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

MediaLivingRoom said:


> Yes, TiVo take a very
> 
> loooong time for software and products. They are going to lose soon.


People have been saying that virtually on a weekly basis for ten years. I'm not holdiong my breath.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

gilbreen said:


> Does anyone know if one can pull shows off a Moxi onto one's PC?





bkdtv said:


> No, that's not a feature Moxi offers.


Major, massive deal breaker. Why anyone would even consider a DVR or similar device that can't transfer files to and from other computing platforms is beyond me. Without this, I would consider my TiVos to be badly, unacceptably crippled.


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## Brainiac 5 (Aug 25, 2003)

lrhorer said:


> Major, massive deal breaker. Why anyone would even consider a DVR or similar device that can't transfer files to and from other computing platforms is beyond me. Without this, I would consider my TiVos to be badly, unacceptably crippled.


That depends on whether or not your cable company is setting the CCI flags to 0x02 or not. If they are, then you can't do it with TiVo either so the difference is immaterial.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Brainiac 5 said:


> That depends on whether or not your cable company is setting the CCI flags to 0x02 or not. If they are, then you can't do it with TiVo either so the difference is immaterial.


 If you are willing to go the PROM hack route yes you can.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

djwilso said:


> While TiVo currently offers Lifetime service, back in November 2006 when I was in the market for a TiVo, they certainly did not offer it.


That's false. I bought my first S3 in September 2006, and I purchased transferred Lifetime Service with it. They allowed me to keep a 12 month sub on my S1, as well, free of charge. My recollection is a bit dim, and at the time LT service may only have been available if transferred from another TiVo, but it definitely was available.



djwilso said:


> And, as it stands today with Cox in Phoenix having every single digital channel set with CCI=0x02, there is no possibility of transferring shows off of the TiVo that I am aware of without modifying the TiVo with a new PROM.


As opposed to the Moxi (the subject of this thread), which evidently doesn't offer it at all.



djwilso said:


> So, while TiVo offers the choice now, they didn't always, and there is nothing that would stop them from taking away the choice again at any time, such as when the Series 4 ever comes out.


Well, true enough, but it's a pretty moot point. If TiVo pulls the offer six months from now, then a buyer at that time won't take it into consideration, any more than they would take what offerings were on the table six months ago for a purchase now. At this time the Tivo offers a lifetime service, so anyone purchasing a Tivo today can take that into account.


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## spocko (Feb 4, 2009)

djwilso said:


> And, as it stands today with Cox in Phoenix having every single digital channel set with CCI=0x02, there is no possibility of transferring shows off of the TiVo that I am aware of without modifying the TiVo with a new PROM.


Are they setting CCI=0x02 on your local broadcast channels (ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox ...)? If so, then you should be able to get them to remove it on those channels. My understanding is that those channels should be in the clear per FCC regulations.

Alternatively if you get your locals via OTA, then you can freely transfer recordings from those channels to your PC.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

This is big news. 

I for one will be jumping on this deal.

As of right now I have one Tivo HD Lifetime and a ReplayTV 5540.

With that setup, I get HD on one TV.

If I sell these for about $700 on eBay. 

I will just need to spend an additional $300 to get HD on an additional 2 TVs!

Time to move to MOXI!


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Scyber said:


> Just when I was looking to buy a 3rd TiVo, they have to go and do this and switch me back into indecision mode. Some very intriguing options here.


Take one for the team, buy one, and write up a review compared to a Tivo!



lrhorer said:


> That's false. I bought my first S3 in September 2006, and I purchased transferred Lifetime Service with it. They allowed me to keep a 12 month sub on my S1, as well, free of charge. My recollection is a bit dim, and at the time LT service may only have been available if transferred from another TiVo, but it definitely was available.


You are responding to an orthogonal issue.. It was available *briefly* as a TRANSFER (as you mention at the end), but for quite a while, lifetime subscriptions were not available for normal purchase. (The 'general unavailability' of lifetime transfer caused people to go buy lifetime subscription gift cards that were still on the shelves at some stores.. and they were going for a lot on eBay for a while.) Their tactic got me to pay a LOT for a S3 (about $850 total including transfer), which I admit was less than the list price + transfer.. but still a lot.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

mattack said:


> ...Their tactic got me to pay a LOT for a S3 (about $850 total including transfer), which I admit was less than the list price + transfer.. but still a lot.


Yep, I did the same thing with my S3.


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## djwilso (Dec 23, 2006)

lrhorer said:


> That's false. I bought my first S3 in September 2006, and I purchased transferred Lifetime Service with it. They allowed me to keep a 12 month sub on my S1, as well, free of charge. My recollection is a bit dim, and at the time LT service may only have been available if transferred from another TiVo, but it definitely was available.


If Lifetime service had been available when I purchased service in November, that's what I would have gotten. But at the time, it was not available, either on tivo.com or by calling TiVo and asking about it, which I did.

I did a search and found the original post where TiVoStephen posted the news about Lifetime service no longer being available, linked below:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=290723&highlight=lifetime+no+longer+available

Like I said, anytime TiVo wants to withdraw the Lifetime option again, just like they did here, they can. They knew at this point in time that the Series 3 was coming out later in 2006. Will this happen again when it's just a few months before the next version of TiVo comes out?


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## teeitup (Mar 31, 2009)

Scyber said:


> Does anyone know if you can stream from one DVR to another (and not just the moxi mate)?


Yes, you can stream recorded shows from one Moxi to another Moxi DVR.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

djwilso said:


> If Lifetime service had been available when I purchased service in November, that's what I would have gotten. But at the time, it was not available, either on tivo.com or by calling TiVo and asking about it, which I did.
> 
> I did a search and found the original post where TiVoStephen posted the news about Lifetime service no longer being available, linked below:
> 
> ...


Lifetime service was available as a transfer incentive. That is how I got Lifetime service on my S3: transferred from my S2. So yes, if you did not have a Lifetime'd tivo before, you could not purchase Lifetime service for a new S3.


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## windsurfdog (May 1, 2009)

eaglestvo said:


> Moxi has a Rhapsody player. I wonder how well it works. After more than two years, it still does not work on Tivo.


False.

After fixing Rhapsody Channels 2-3 months ago, the Tivo Rhapsody app works just fine.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

It is possible to have a corrupt playlist or channel on your Rhapsody account that breaks the TiVo app. In that case, you may need to remove and then re-add your channels and/or remove and then re-add any playlists.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

When Moxi first became available it cost $799 but its analog tuning dongle was included free. Now there's an additional charge of $129 for the dongle. 

Using the dongle a few tricks become available such as manually recording from a cable STB or an OTA CECB. Also, using the dongle with Moxi enables recording 3 programs at the same time, although one is necessarily standard-def from an analog source.

The Moxi Mate was originally available on special for $199. Now it's $299.

So while I paid $998 for Moxi, Mate and dongle; now they'd cost $927. Yes it's cheaper, but not radically cheaper!

Don't buy Moxi for its price! Buy it because it does what you want. Same for TiVo! They both are DVRs but Moxi and TiVo are different. TiVo is the Gold Standard of reliability but still not perfect. Moxi is flakier than TiVo but not radically so! 

Moxi is great for watching live TV with DVR features. TiVo excels at watching everything timeshifted. Computers are great for TV watchers far smarter than me! Don't want any part of a computer for watching TV!


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

I updated the AVS HDTV DVR Feature Comparison table to reflect the new developments.

Unfortunately, TCF does not support tables so I can't post it here.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

fallingwater said:


> So while I paid $998 for Moxi, Mate and dongle; now they'd cost $927. Yes it's cheaper, but not radically cheaper!


For $928, $799+$129, you get three tuners and the Moxi mate and the dongle which to me would be cheaper than the $998 you paid since you also gain a tuner.

Yeah you could also pay a dollar less and get one less tuner. I wonder if I paid them $938 if they would give me 10 additional tuners.


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## twhiting9275 (Nov 17, 2006)

fallingwater said:


> A tuner in the TV set + 2 tuners in TiVo + 3 tuners in Moxi + Mate = all of TiVo's features + all of Moxi's features + a live TV overload feed for those 6 tuner moments! :up: :up::up: :up::up::up:


No, that's certainly *not* all of Tivo's features, it lacks the most important one, which is Tivo to PC or vice versa



lrhorer said:


> Major, massive deal breaker. Why anyone would even consider a DVR or similar device that can't transfer files to and from other computing platforms is beyond me. Without this, I would consider my TiVos to be badly, unacceptably crippled.


That's *exactly* why I left cable DVR's. They kept trying to tell me theirs was better, theirs had much better features, but it didn't, and it certainly didn't have that one *major* feature.Now, I've got two tivos, and a PC with enough storage to keep me going. Typically, I DVR stuff, and start watching new stuff later on in the year unless it really catches my interest. Keep it on the PC and you've got a much, much better Tivo and network structure.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

innocentfreak said:


> For $928, $799+$129, you get three tuners and the Moxi mate and the dongle which to me would be cheaper than the $998 you paid since you also gain a tuner.
> 
> Yeah you could also pay a dollar less and get one less tuner. I wonder if I paid them $938 if they would give me 10 additional tuners.


As I said the price is cheaper but not radically cheaper. Moxi's site has a $1 discrepancy between the cost of buying a Moxi for $499 + the Mate separately for $299 for a total of $798 vs. $799 for the combo price.

More importantly though is the question about number of tuners; the dongle provides a tuner so although Moxi doesn't make it crystal clear, perhaps the Moxi, Mate, and dongle for $927 or $928 really provide 4 tuners, not 3. Or not? The difference between 3 or 4 tuners IS radical!


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

fallingwater said:


> A tuner in the TV set + 2 tuners in TiVo + 3 tuners in Moxi + Mate = all of TiVo's features + all of Moxi's features + a live TV overload feed for those 6 tuner moments! :up: :up::up: :up::up::up:





twhiting9275 said:


> No, that's certainly *not* all of Tivo's features, it lacks the most important one, which is Tivo to PC or vice versa


Huh?

You would get all of TiVo's features from TiVo; all of Moxi's features from Moxi, plus another live tuner. The PC is extra, but if you want to use it with TiVo by all means go for it!



lrhorer said:


> Major, massive deal breaker. Why anyone would even consider a DVR or similar device that can't transfer files to and from other computing platforms is beyond me. Without this, I would consider my TiVos to be badly, unacceptably crippled.





twhiting9275 said:


> That's *exactly* why I left cable DVR's. They kept trying to tell me theirs was better, theirs had much better features, but it didn't, and it certainly didn't have that one *major* feature.Now, I've got two tivos, and a PC with enough storage to keep me going. Typically, I DVR stuff, and start watching new stuff later on in the year unless it really catches my interest. Keep it on the PC and you've got a much, much better Tivo and network structure.


Like I said go for it! 

Youse guys are much smarter'n me. I jus' wanna watch TV; mostly live, except wen therz a conflick or I'm bizzy!


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I was more trying to make the point to me that an additional tuner for less money makes the price radically cheaper at least to me since I put a lot of value on another tuner.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

fallingwater said:


> Like I said go for it!
> 
> Youse guys are much smarter'n me. I jus' wanna watch TV; mostly live, except wen therz a conflick or I'm bizzy!


I think that is the big difference in attitude. I don't want to watch live tv and most people I know who have Tivos feel the same way. I want to bring up a list of shows at anytime and pick what I want to watch.

I haven't truly watched live TV since I got my first Tivo back in 2000-2001. Occasionally I may turn it on for background noise if I am working on the computer and not paying attention to the TV.


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## twhiting9275 (Nov 17, 2006)

innocentfreak said:


> I haven't truly watched live TV since I got my first Tivo back in 2000-2001. Occasionally I may turn it on for background noise if I am working on the computer and not paying attention to the TV.


Same here!
Even the "V" remake, which I completely love and looked forward to for a year or better is still Tivo'ed, sent to the PC, cleaned up, then served from there


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

And no OTA, deal breaker!


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

innocentfreak said:


> I was more trying to make the point to me that an additional tuner for less money makes the price radically cheaper at least to me since I put a lot of value on another tuner.


So how many tuners does Moxi with Mate and dongle provide?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

fallingwater said:


> So how many tuners does Moxi with Mate and dongle provide?


With the new triple-tuner Moxi and dongle, you can still only use three tuners at any given time. You can use three digital cable (QAM) tuners *or* two digital cable (QAM) tuners and the dongle.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

twhiting9275 said:


> Same here!
> Even the "V" remake, which I completely love and looked forward to for a year or better is still Tivo'ed, sent to the PC, cleaned up, then served from there


Cleaned up?

I jus' watch it. (But why did they bother to remake it?)


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I am guessing he is talking about removing commercials. 

For me 3 digital cable tuners is more valuable than 2 digital+1 OTA. For $100 I added 4 OTA/Clearqam tuners already to my PC so those are cheap and easy to get. Digital tuners as of right now aren't.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

bkdtv said:


> With the new triple-tuner Moxi and dongle, you can still only use three tuners at any given time. You can use three digital cable (QAM) tuners *or* two digital cable (QAM) tuners and the dongle.


Y'know, that's kinda' what I thought.

Although I bought the Mate and hooked it up, I've actually never used it. It's easier to just go into the room where the Moxi and dongle are!

But I wouldn't have a Moxi without the dongle. Using the dongle with a DTA I get free Extended Basic. And if I chose to, I could get OTA from a CECB through the dongle. Mapping the dongle's ch. 3 output to Comcast's *On Demand* Ch. 1 enables recording buffers 4 hours long during Primetime.

So it's possible to have a 3 tuner Moxi for $628 and was from Day 1 (for $799).


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

bkdtv said:


> I updated the AVS HDTV DVR Feature Comparison table to reflect the new developments.
> 
> Unfortunately, TCF does not support tables so I can't post it here.


On your chart you list 6 hours HD for the buffer of the 3 tuner model, but also list 3 hours per tuner. So is it actually nine hours total or 2 hours per tuner?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

twhiting9275 said:


> Same here!
> Even the "V" remake, which I completely love and looked forward to for a year or better is still Tivo'ed, sent to the PC, cleaned up, then served from there


What is there to clean up? I do run mine through an Algolith Flea to remove some of the macroblocking and noise that occurs on all Boradcast programs. But I watch all my broadcast programs through Flea. And the processing is done in realtime.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

innocentfreak said:


> I think that is the big difference in attitude. I don't want to watch live tv and most people I know who have Tivos feel the same way. I want to bring up a list of shows at anytime and pick what I want to watch.


Exactly! I also refuse to be tied to someone else's schedule. I set my own schedule and watch TV whenever I find it convenient. "My show" doesn't come on at 19:00, it comes on whenever I get a moment to sit down and watch some TV - usually around 23:00. That's often days after it was aired, or in some cases weeks. Once in a while it is months later. I recorded Nightmare Before Christmas two years ago. I tired to watch it a number of times, but every time I did, something would come up and I would have to go do something else. I finally got a chance to watch it all the way through a couple of weeks ago.



innocentfreak said:


> I haven't truly watched live TV since I got my first Tivo back in 2000-2001.


Except for news, neither have I, and I got mine about the same time as you.



innocentfreak said:


> Occasionally I may turn it on for background noise if I am working on the computer and not paying attention to the TV.


That wouldn't work for me. My office is in another part of the house from the TV rooms. I do have a PC at each TV, but it uses the same monitor the TiVo does, so I have to do one or the other if I am in one of the TV rooms. In any case, for background audio I prefer music to TV programming.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> On your chart you list 6 hours HD for the buffer of the 3 tuner model, but also list 3 hours per tuner. So is it actually nine hours total or 2 hours per tuner?


From what I understand, Moxi only buffered the last two tuners with its previous software, even after triple tuner capability was added with the analog dongle. I'm not certain whether anything changed with the new triple-tuner model.

I'm waiting for a response from Moxi on that.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Brainiac 5 said:


> That depends on whether or not your cable company is setting the CCI flags to 0x02 or not. If they are, then you can't do it with TiVo either so the difference is immaterial.


I'm on TWC, who flags everything as 0x02. I have no problems transferring any program I want. How is another matter, but given the fact, the question certainly is not immaterial.


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## eaglestvo (Dec 27, 2008)

windsurfdog said:


> False.
> 
> After fixing Rhapsody Channels 2-3 months ago, the Tivo Rhapsody app works just fine.


I did not know it was fixed. After struggling with it for a year, I just gave up and stopped trying and am using Sonos instead. The Rhapsody player was a main feature that made me switch from using a cable box, but it was a big disappointment.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

lrhorer said:


> I also refuse to be tied to someone else's schedule. I set my own schedule and watch TV whenever I find it convenient. "My show" doesn't come on at 19:00, it comes on whenever I get a moment to sit down and watch some TV - usually around 23:00. That's often days after it was aired, or in some cases weeks. Once in a while it is months later.


Exactly! I watch TV on my schedule, although my preferences are very different from yours. Since I prefer to watch any program worth watching live or within a few hours after it airs, I watch the great majority from a rolling recording buffer without scheduling a recording.

Whenever, because of conflicts, I do set a recording I never delete it until watched. If a HDD had infinite capacity that would of course be no problem, but no matter how big, complicated, or expensive a multi-racked and/or stacked video server is ultimately limited.

I realize that unless I achieve immortality I'm gonna' miss watching some good TV. (Gasp!)

I have the capability of receiving and buffering 3 channels simultaneously, and recording 2 buffers to DVD while a ReplayTV offers 24 hr. back-up for the 3rd. I have hundreds of video cassettes and DVD's I've never yet watched; there's little point in filling HDD's with more.



> I do have a PC at each TV, but it uses the same monitor the TiVo does, so I have to do one or the other if I am in one of the TV rooms. In any case, for background audio I prefer music to TV programming.


My main PC uses the same display as the video gear in the room. Since the TV set has no PIP capability I supply a mini-stereo with real time TV audio. Right now ABC's _This Week_ is on.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

bkdtv said:


> From what I understand, Moxi only buffered the last two tuners with its previous software, even after triple tuner capability was added with the analog dongle. I'm not certain whether anything changed with the new triple-tuner model.


Moxi offers only 2 recording buffers even with 3 simultaneous recordings. Its recording buffers can be turned into recordings while the program is live. The recording buffer's length is in part determined by the length of the ongoing program(s) tuned to. Normally a Moxi buffer is from 1.5 to 3 hrs. long and isn't affected by whether hi-def or standard-def is being recorded.

I use Comcast's Ch. 1's VOD blocs as 'live' programs in Moxi's EPG and at times get buffers over 4 hours long when recording from the dongle. I don't know whether the Mate changes anything.


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## windsurfdog (May 1, 2009)

eaglestvo said:


> I did not know it was fixed. After struggling with it for a year, I just gave up and stopped trying and am using Sonos instead. The Rhapsody player was a main feature that made me switch from using a cable box, but it was a big disappointment.


It is indeed fixed and operating admirably. Give it a shot. IMO, the graphics are nicely done. Though I'm not familiar with the Sonos/Rhapsody app, I do have a Denon receiver that has a Rhapsody app and the Tivo gui shines in comparison though I think the Denon has better sound quality...but not significantly enough to make me shy from the Tivo. It's certainly nice to have a choice.

And thanks to bkdtv for pointing out that corruption of personal playlists and/or channels can cause heartburn for the application. Fortunately, I haven't experienced this.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

dlfl said:


> Me too. Also, Moxi can't tune OTA with an antenna.


It also can't tune analog cable channels without a adapter which then makes it a single tuner analog device. The fact that it still has this limitation is baffling.

Plus, Moxi's financials are very shaky at the moment.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

You do know that Digeo sold all of the Moxi stuff to Arris, right? Digeo is all but dead, but not the Moxi (at least not yet).


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

rainwater said:


> It also can't tune analog cable channels without a adapter which then makes it a single tuner analog device. The fact that it still has this limitation is baffling.


Moxi is designed to be a two or three tuner (with Mate) digital QAM tuner with an analog dongle available as a third tuner.

The dongle enables Moxi to perform a few extra tricks besides receiving analog chjannels but for those relatively few cable viewers who still receive only analog cable neither Moxi or HDTivo is the best choice. A dual tuner TiVo S2 is!


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

slowbiscuit said:


> You do know that Digeo sold all of the Moxi stuff to Arris, right? Digeo is all but dead, but not the Moxi (at least not yet).


Isn't that the argument we use to say about Tivo. Tivo is not dead yet.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

fallingwater said:


> for those relatively few cable viewers who still receive only analog cable neither Moxi or HDTivo is the best choice. A dual tuner TiVo S2 is!


a DT costs less and is very solid on analog cable - but OTA and digital cable needs the IR blasters so the DT model is a very limited upgrade to digital cable path.

The only issue with TiVo HD model is some boxes have a glitch with the analog tuners. I have 2 Tivo HDs and one had the tuner glitch a few times weeks apart and currently has been running rock solid for a few months now with no glitch. I would not hold off on a TiVo HD just becasue of the glitch - especially since digital OTA can get you a whole lot of good stuff not available on basic cable


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

fallingwater said:


> The dongle enables Moxi to perform a few extra tricks besides receiving analog chjannels but for those relatively few cable viewers who still receive only analog cable neither Moxi or HDTivo is the best choice. A dual tuner TiVo S2 is!


Huh? Most cable companies still use analog channels for 2-99 even when using CableCards. There are some that have implemented ADS to map to the digital equivalent but they are still in the minority. So are you saying no one should be using a Moxi or TiVo S3?


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

rainwater said:


> It also can't tune analog cable channels without a adapter which then makes it a single tuner analog device. The fact that it still has this limitation is baffling...





me said:


> Moxi is designed to be a two or three tuner (with Mate) digital QAM tuner with an analog dongle available as a third tuner.
> 
> The dongle enables Moxi to perform a few extra tricks besides receiving analog chjannels but for those relatively few cable viewers who still receive only analog cable neither Moxi or HDTivo is the best choice. A dual tuner TiVo S2 is!





ZeoTiVo said:


> a DT costs less and is very solid on analog cable - but OTA and digital cable needs the IR blasters so the DT model is a very limited upgrade to digital cable path.
> 
> The only issue with TiVo HD model is some boxes have a glitch with the analog tuners. I have 2 Tivo HDs and one had the tuner glitch a few times weeks apart and currently has been running rock solid for a few months now with no glitch. I would not hold off on a TiVo HD just becasue of the glitch - especially since digital OTA can get you a whole lot of good stuff not available on basic cable





rainwater said:


> Huh? Most cable companies still use analog channels for 2-99 even when using CableCards. There are some that have implemented ADS to map to the digital equivalent but they are still in the minority. So are you saying no one should be using a Moxi or TiVo S3?


To clarify:

To me the premise of your post to which I replied was that Moxi would be very limited if used on analog only cable systems. That's true!

I replied that for those viewers who receive only analog cable neither Moxi nor HDTiVo would be the best choice. My assumption was that analog cable was the only source available to a viewer. If a viewer receives both analog cable and digital OTA then HDTiVo is the best option.

I've never experienced HDTiVo's analog glitch. We currently use two S3s, one with CableCards, one without. One S3 displays another annoying glitch, exacerbated by the way that I use it.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7610863#post7610863

BTW, Moxi has its own set of annoyances; perhaps more like ReplayTV's than TiVo's.

Basic problem I have with TiVo is that I don't watch most TV timeshifted; the viewing style TiVo is designed for. ReplayTV and Moxi are not designed to optimize timeshifting and both offer features which more closely match my viewing preferences. Neither matches TiVo's Gold Standard of reliability, although they're both credible.

DVR's, like all machines, are tools; at times a Honda is more useful than a Porsche. FWIW, I've got a Timex that is more accurate than most Rolexes and certainly carries with it fewer concerns. 
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7614743#post7614743


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

So from a quick review of bkdtv's excellent table comparison page it looks like some of the largest defficiencies of Moxi vs TiVo are:
1. No way to natively offload recordings to a PC
2. No advanced wishlist functionality (with boolean operations)
3. No OTA ATSC support
Did I miss any other biggies? The 1st 2 above are showstoppers for me already but seems like could be addressed in future software updates.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

moyekj said:


> So from a quick review of bkdtv's excellent table comparison page it looks like some of the largest defficiencies of Moxi vs TiVo are:
> 1. No way to natively offload recordings to a PC
> 2. No advanced wishlist functionality (with boolean operations)
> 3. No OTA ATSC support
> Did I miss any other biggies? The 1st 2 above are showstoppers for me already but seems like could be addressed in future software updates.


If your cable system broadcasts channels 2-99 in analog, you will have to purchase the adapter from Moxi (afaik there is no way to easily purchase this without calling them). With the adapter, you can only record 1 analog channel at a time.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

fallingwater said:


> Moxi offers only 2 recording buffers even with 3 simultaneous recordings. Its recording buffers can be turned into recordings while the program is live. The recording buffer's length is in part determined by the length of the ongoing program(s) tuned to. Normally a Moxi buffer is from 1.5 to 3 hrs. long and isn't affected by whether hi-def or standard-def is being recorded.
> 
> I use Comcast's Ch. 1's VOD blocs as 'live' programs in Moxi's EPG and at times get buffers over 4 hours long when recording from the dongle. I don't know whether the Mate changes anything.


How does that work with the third tuner then? Do you have to make sure you hit record so there is content to back up to if you want to rewind?
Otherwise you would essentially be watching live TV like on a non DVR box?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

moyekj said:


> So from a quick review of bkdtv's excellent table comparison page it looks like some of the largest defficiencies of Moxi vs TiVo are:
> 1. No way to natively offload recordings to a PC
> 2. No advanced wishlist functionality (with boolean operations)
> 3. No OTA ATSC support
> Did I miss any other biggies? The 1st 2 above are showstoppers for me already but seems like could be addressed in future software updates.


Netflix comes in HD on the TiVo if you have the bandwidth for it.
since Moxi uses Playon all the Amazon and Netflix, etc. can only be in SD due to playon limitation


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Netflix comes in HD on the TiVo if you have the bandwidth for it.
> since Moxi uses Playon all the Amazon and Netflix, etc. can only be in SD due to playon limitation


 I consider that pretty minor, especially since other interfaces to Netflix (Xbox, PS3, etc.) are better than the TiVo HME implementation. Also having the original S3 there are still cases of Netflix titles that TiVo WMV decoder can't handle that I reported numerous times to both Netflix & TiVo, but they seem to show 0 interest in fixing.
In general using TiVo as a general purpose multimedia device is a pretty poor choice considering the limited codecs it can decode natively and apparent lack of interest/focus by TiVo on improving it.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

moyekj said:


> In general using TiVo as a general purpose multimedia device is a pretty poor choice considering the limited codecs it can decode natively and apparent lack of interest/focus by TiVo on improving it.


that is where we disagree then - I stream Netflix in decent quality for streaming. I ripp DVDs to mpeg2 with just remuxing for Tivo which is quick. I watch lots of You Tube stuff - get various video casts downloaded to my TiVo. Of course I have cable and OTA in the mix.

The only thing missing is Hulu and being able to get sites like abc.com right on my TV via TiVo. And the Netflix interface needs version 2 to come out badly.

I find it a very useful device to watch my media, especially since I watch all my movies with trick play and the TiVo always remembering where I left off. Other devices have their pros and cons as well but I like having just one box for all my media


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> How does that work with the third tuner then? Do you have to make sure you hit record so there is content to back up to if you want to rewind?


Yes, if you want to switch back to the last-used-tuner and have a buffer, you need to hit record.



aaronwt said:


> Otherwise you would essentially be watching live TV like on a non DVR box?


Well, not really...since you always have a liveTV buffer on the active tuner.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

aaronwt said:


> How does that work with the third tuner then? Do you have to make sure you hit record so there is content to back up to if you want to rewind?
> Otherwise you would essentially be watching live TV like on a non DVR box?


I use the dongle on a Moxi without a CableCARD and have manually mapped the line-up, fooling the dongle into recording from a DTA mapped to Ch. 1 VOD. The first two channels being recorded get live-buffered. The third can be watched from the _Recorded TV_ section of the menu.

I'm not sure how the dongle works when a CableCARD maps the line-up.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Netflix comes in HD on the TiVo if you have the bandwidth for it.
> since Moxi uses Playon all the Amazon and Netflix, etc. can only be in SD due to playon limitation


I though tthe limitation with Netflix was that they only had SD on the PC which is what the Playon USes?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> I though tthe limitation with Netflix was that they only had SD on the PC which is what the Playon USes?


Right.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

deandashl said:


> Is the TiVo HD still the best DVR available with the best functionality and features vs. all the competition?......yes.


I am just reading this thread for fun because I'm bored, but I must say that this statement is highly subjective.

Arguments are being made that transfer to PC is a dealbreaker. This is only true if you care about transferring to PC. I (and many others) don't.

In this sense, "best" is not quantifiable and is only an opinion. I had TiVos, cable DVRs, and am currently using two Dish Network DVRs, because they are the best _for me_. I have 0% interest in TiVo, and probably will have none for quite some time.

This is partly due to the fact that TiVo left a bad taste in my mouth when the LONG awaited S3 finally came out at a whopping $800 not including subscription. It's mostly due to the fact that I think the Dish DVR software is better, though.

Anyway, my point is that I find it quite comical that some posters can't fathom why anyone would purchase a device that's missing their "must have" feature, when said feature is a non-issue for others.

Comical indeed.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

What's really important is to highlight all the differences between various DVRs out there as bkdtv has done and then let purchaser decide what is important. I mentioned a couple of deal breakers for me for Moxi because those capabilities are important to me. Of course these kinds of posts are always subjective - that's a given. There are plenty of TiVo capabilities also not available on other DVRs that I don't care about, such as Suggestions. That is in no way a deal breaker to me if it is missing, but it is for others.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

Agreed. A DVR is "best" if it has more features you use/want then competing products.

Many cablco DVRs are limited to around 20 hours (HD) and can't be expanded. We can purchase the 1T HDXL, upgrade the hard drive (void the warranty) of the Tivo HD or purchase the external DVR Expander.I think that's a big advantage. People who don't have a lot of SPs, or are able to use VoD to supplement their SPs, won't see that as an advantage.

Moxi and tivo have different features. Assuming Moxi is reasonably "bug free" I can see some customers favoring the Moxi and other customers favoring tivo.



classicX said:


> In this sense, "best" is not quantifiable and is only an opinion. I had TiVos, cable DVRs, and am currently using two Dish Network DVRs, because they are the best _for me_. I have 0% interest in TiVo, and probably will have none for quite some time.
> ....
> Anyway, my point is that I find it quite comical that some posters can't fathom why anyone would purchase a device that's missing their "must have" feature, when said feature is a non-issue for others.
> 
> Comical indeed.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> I though tthe limitation with Netflix was that they only had SD on the PC which is what the Playon USes?





bkdtv said:


> Right.


from the PlayOn FAQ

"When will you support HD videos on Hulu, CBS, and Netflix?
We are working on this. Keep in mind that this will require a beefy PC to handle the realtime transcoding of HD content. "


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

lew said:


> Agreed. A DVR is "best" if it has more features you use/want then competing products.
> ...
> Moxi and tivo have different features. Assuming Moxi is reasonably "bug free" I can see some customers favoring the Moxi and other customers favoring tivo.


Comcast has just effected its digital cutover here, eliminating all analog programming (with a couple of exceptions) above channel 28. Right now Moxi's manual QAM mapping is worth having; no Extended Basic or Limited Basic hi-def channels are scrambled (with one exception). If Comcast scrambles channels higher than 28, QAM mapping will of course become moot.

Interestingly, because of a local Comcast peculiarity, one channel available from Comcast's DTA is scrambled when tuned by a non-Comcast QAM tuner. Here the Syfy channel had been available only in a digital tier while in Seattle and most of Comcast's system it is an Extended Basic channel. Now it's part of a DTA's Extended Basic line-up here. It does illustrate that any or all Extended Basic channels can be scrambled at any time.

---
Moxi has one particularly annoying limitation, not shared by either TiVo or Sony's hi-def DVRs: if a hi-def resolution is selected Moxi no longer outputs standard-def on its composite or S-Video jacks. Both TiVo and Sony provide simultaneous hi and standard-def outputs; Sony's with an interesting user option: its menu and TVGOS can be made available only in hi-def, leaving the standard-def signal unmarred for possible DVD recording.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

fallingwater said:


> Comcast has just effected its digital cutover here, eliminating all analog programming (with a couple of exceptions) above channel 28. Right now Moxi's manual QAM mapping is worth having; no Extended Basic or Limited Basic hi-def channels are scrambled (with one exception). If Comcast scrambles channels higher than 28, QAM mapping will of course become moot.


Comcast did the same thing where I am, but they also moved some channels around and added 39 new HD channels. Comcast never informed Tribune about these changes though so a few channels are wrong and there's no guide data for any of the new HD channels on my TiVo. It's times like this that QAM mapping would be useful.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

fallingwater said:


> I use the dongle on a Moxi without a CableCARD and have manually mapped the line-up, fooling the dongle into recording from a DTA mapped to Ch. 1 VOD. The first two channels being recorded get live-buffered. The third can be watched from the _Recorded TV_ section of the menu.
> 
> I'm not sure how the dongle works when a CableCARD maps the line-up.


Now that Comcast has eliminated analog service above Ch. 28 I connected the DTA to a DVD recorder with a 6 hr. recording buffer. Because Moxi turns off its standard-def outputs when the hi-def output is selected the DTA is more useful connected directly to a standard def device. (BTW, Comcast is also retaining analog service for Chs. 75 through 99 as part of Limited Basic service, which in this location adds 2 channels; the Weather Channel and Shop NBC.)

So, Moxi's dongle now is connected directly to coax out of the wall and receives all available analog channels which get inserted into Moxi's line-up in numerical order. (I unmapped Ch.3 from VOD Ch. 1.)

Moxi's EPG displays Comcast's channel line-up for a local ZIP code and generally provides 2 listings for an OTA simulcast channel, one for standard-def, the other for hi-def. IOW, channel 4 is standard-def KOMO 4 Seattle while KOMO-DT (high-def) is Ch. 104.

There are now 2 standard-def signals for an OTA simulcast channel (one from the dongle in analog format) plus another hi-def signal. Moxi only maps channels on a 1 to 1 basis so one standard-def signal can't be mapped.

KOMO 4 on Ch. 79.3 is now mapped to analog Ch. 4 EPG info. The 'real' analog Ch. 4 remains unmapped but is adjacent in the EPG to the mapped Ch. 4. Hi-def KOMO-DT on actual Ch. 82-4 ('virtual' PSIP ch. 4.1) is mapped to ch. 104 EPG info.

So here's where it gets as interesting as it is confusing.  Moxi at present doesn't offer manual recordings; recordings must be initiated from an EPG listing. But unmapped EPG entries from the dongle have no info, just (TBA) and analog channels can't be set up for recording. However two digital channels in the EPG can be recorded at the same time as an analog channel is being watched delayed from its live buffer, which can be up to 3 hours long.

Since there's no EPG time info Moxi's Progress Bar doesn't show where in the buffer a viewer is. (If an analog channel was mapped instead and the corresponding digital channel wasn't, the same limitation would apply to the unmapped digital channel.)

So Moxi is interesting! (IOW, many TiVo users probably won't like its built-in quirks.  The quirks aren't glitches as they're engineered to work the way they do, but they're different from TiVo and, AFAIK, unlike any other DVR.)


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

classicX said:


> Arguments are being made that transfer to PC is a dealbreaker. This is only true if you care about transferring to PC. I (and many others) don't.
> ...
> snip
> 
> ...Comical indeed.


I agree. Transferring to a PC is definitely no a deal breaker. I have never used it at all.

What is a deal maker is Moxi's extra 3rd tuner (non SDV area), Moxi Mates (I hate the cost of the TIVO MRV), Flickr HD viewing,the online scheduling, and the eSata expansion that won't break the main unit if the drive dies.

$999 for three rooms is a great day. I ordered yesterday.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

fatlard said:


> I agree. Transferring to a PC is definitely no a deal breaker. I have never used it at all.
> 
> What is a deal maker is Moxi's extra 3rd tuner (non SDV area), Moxi Mates (I hate the cost of the TIVO MRV), Flickr HD viewing,the online scheduling, and the eSata expansion that won't break the main unit if the drive dies.
> 
> $999 for three rooms is a great day. I ordered yesterday.


well not a deal breaker for you. The others said it was a deal breaker for them. 
I have not used the view pictures on the TV much (my relatives can't seem to break free of hard copy ) so Flickr is no big deal to me.
Both do online scheduling.
I had an eSata drive on a TiVo HD someone gave me. the external drive died completely but my TiVo continued to work just fine. Lost the shows of course but otherwise all scheduled recordings continued and other features all fine. Now after that I did it my way and just upgraded the internal drive and never looked back. can Moxi internal be upgraded?

999$ is a great deal for 3 rooms but you stay at the 3 tuners versus 6 tuners (that can record any channel) if you did 3 DVRs from TiVo. This again depends on what you really want happening in the 3 rooms. With 4 kids and their season passes in other rooms having the 6 tuners is a real value add for me


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## sears1234 (Nov 24, 2009)

gilbreen said:


> Does anyone know if one can pull shows off a Moxi onto one's PC?


This is not allowed in current release version.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> 999$ is a great deal for 3 rooms but you stay at the 3 tuners versus 6 tuners (that can record any channel) if you did 3 DVRs from TiVo. This again depends on what you really want happening in the 3 rooms. With 4 kids and their season passes in other rooms having the 6 tuners is a real value add for me


Yeah, it really depends on how you use your TVs. I think for households with 3 TVs that aren't all being used at once, the 3 tuner system would work great. I do love the idea of extenders that basically mimic the functionality of the main box. That way you don't have to deal with managing season passes on 3 different DVRs. Of course if you have several different tvs all going at once, the 3 tuner system might not be a good idea. Personally, I think if these boxes had 4 tuners, it would work for 99% of the people.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

rainwater said:


> Yeah, it really depends on how you use your TVs. I think for households with 3 TVs that aren't all being used at once, the 3 tuner system would work great. I do love the idea of extenders that basically mimic the functionality of the main box. That way you don't have to deal with managing season passes on 3 different DVRs. Of course if you have several different tvs all going at once, the 3 tuner system might not be a good idea. Personally, I think if these boxes had 4 tuners, it would work for 99% of the people.


Even with just me, by myself, three tuners is nowhere near enough for recording shows. Even six wouldn't be enough. Eight is the bare minimum for just me and even then sometimes I have more than eight things recording concurrently.

Now if this three tuner Moxi would have been out six or seven years ago I would have been all over it.

Although It's better having the shows on a separate device. I can always transfer them to a another TiVo in 15 to 20 minutes for an hour show(for HD, I have no idea how quickly SD would transfer) to view in another room.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> Although It's better having the shows on a separate device..


I've seen the Uverse extender in action and can say that it is much better having them on a single box. You don't even have to care where the shows are stored. They just show up on the extender and you can watch them instantly. You have to realize not everyone needs 6 simultaneous tuners. My guess is the average household would be fine with 3. I really hope TiVo will realize the benefits of an extender and release one someday.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

rainwater said:


> I've seen the Uverse extender in action and can say that it is much better having them on a single box. You don't even have to care where the shows are stored. They just show up on the extender and you can watch them instantly. You have to realize not everyone needs 6 simultaneous tuners. My guess is the average household would be fine with 3. I really hope TiVo will realize the benefits of an extender and release one someday.


Yes it is called MRV. Please pay the MSD


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

aaronwt said:


> Even with just me, by myself, three tuners is nowhere near enough for recording shows. Even six wouldn't be enough. Eight is the bare minimum for just me and even then sometimes I have more than eight things recording concurrently.


Wow, I think you win the "TV Addict" award... and I thought I was in the running!
I've started dropping shows(*) due to recording more than I can watch already.. Though I definitely still would like more tuners, even if to just add buffering to all recordings.

(*) Though in some cases that means deleting ones I've already recorded and adding them to one of my Netflix profiles. I *have* gotten to those in the past, though currently my Netflix acct is on hold for about another month (see "recording more than I can watch already" above). I only nuke 'em after they're on DVD, not "they'll likely show up on DVD some day".


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## teeitup (Mar 31, 2009)

I purchased a Moxi and Mate back when it was $999 for the combo. Although now I could get 3 tuners and a second mate for the same price, I do not regret making the purchase. I love the Mate and the ability to stream shows from the Moxi. We end up watching most recording shows through the Mate and it works excellent with no picture quality degradation. I am looking forward to the new update to allow live TV viewing through the Mate.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

aaronwt said:


> Even with just me, by myself, three tuners is nowhere near enough for recording shows. Even six wouldn't be enough. Eight is the bare minimum for just me and even then sometimes I have more than eight things recording concurrently.
> 
> Now if this three tuner Moxi would have been out six or seven years ago I would have been all over it.
> 
> Although It's better having the shows on a separate device. I can always transfer them to a another TiVo in 15 to 20 minutes for an hour show(for HD, I have no idea how quickly SD would transfer) to view in another room.


Back in the old days (6-7 years ago) DrStrange used an arsenal of 7 single tuner DVRs from both cable and satellite sources, all constantly recording. 
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/member.php?u=797

His archived original http://pvrcompare.com :
http://web.archive.org/web/20061115051206/http://www.pvrcompare.com/


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

fatlard said:


> Yes it is called MRV. Please pay the MSD


No, it is nothing like MRV. Apparently you have never used a DVR extender.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

rainwater said:


> No, it is nothing like MRV. Apparently you have never used a DVR extender.


Probably not since Tivo does not offer it.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

fatlard said:


> Probably not since Tivo does not offer it.


So why did you say it is called MRV? An extender is nothing like MRV. An extender provides a seamless experience allowing you to have one DVR and multiple extenders providing similar functionality.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

Happily waiting for my new Moxi HD with two Moxi Mate. My Tivo HD lifetime will go on eBay.


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## boblablaw (Nov 28, 2009)

bkdtv said:


> With the new triple-tuner Moxi and dongle, you can still only use three tuners at any given time. You can use three digital cable (QAM) tuners *or* two digital cable (QAM) tuners and the dongle.


Actually, you can use the analog dongle and 3 digital tuners all at the same time. You can simultaneously record 3 digital + 1 analog (w/the dongle) while watching a recording and streaming live or recorded TV to 1 or 2 Mates.



bkdtv said:


> From what I understand, Moxi only buffered the last two tuners with its previous software, even after triple tuner capability was added with the analog dongle. I'm not certain whether anything changed with the new triple-tuner model.


All of the tuners are always buffering Live TV once they're tuned to something. If you go to Settings/Diagnostics/Hardware, you can see what channel each tuner is currently on.

Also, the new 3 tuner Moxi has twice the memory (512MB), so it navigates faster and can handle the extra tuner and two Mates more easily.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

boblablaw said:


> Actually, you can use the analog dongle and 3 digital tuners all at the same time. You can simultaneously record 3 digital + 1 analog (w/the dongle) while watching a recording and streaming live or recorded TV to 1 or 2 Mates.


Good to know.



> All of the tuners are always buffering Live TV once they're tuned to something. If you go to Settings/Diagnostics/Hardware, you can see what channel each tuner is currently on.


Again, good to know.

I updated the comparison chart.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

There's another advantage to Moxi -- their repair/replacement policy:



> Thanks for your interest in Moxi. We received your email with your question and are happy to help.
> 
> The Moxi HD DVR is the best HD DVR on the planet because of its Emmy award-winning interface and it's suite of online networking and multimedia home entertainment capabilities. It's also the only HD DVR with no monthly fees. (check out our website - www.moxi.com - for full details).
> 
> ...


TiVo charges a flat $150 fee to replace after the warranty expires, but also charges an additional $199 lifetime transfer fee after three years.

Cost after three years to replace a TivoHD with lifetime: $350
Cost after three years to replace a Moxi with lifetime: $75 + parts


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

bkdtv said:


> There's another advantage to Moxi -- their repair/replacement policy:
> 
> TiVo charges a flat $150 fee to replace after the warranty expires, but also charges an additional $199 lifetime transfer fee after three years.
> 
> ...


because TiVo does not repair the actual parts while it seems Moxi does.

Now of course you could use the 3rd party repair places available for TiVo and likely pay far less. If if is a hard drive then you can repair it yourself for less than 100$ or else have Moxi charge 75$ plus whatever price they set on the hard drive they swap in.

Does anyone know if the end user can swap out/upgrade the drive in a Moxi unit or if any 3rd parties exist that will work on Moxi units?


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

boblablaw said:


> Actually, you can use the analog dongle and 3 digital tuners all at the same time. You can simultaneously record 3 digital + 1 analog (w/the dongle) while watching a recording and streaming live or recorded TV to 1 or 2 Mates.
> 
> All of the tuners are always buffering Live TV once they're tuned to something. If you go to Settings/Diagnostics/Hardware, you can see what channel each tuner is currently on.
> 
> Also, the new 3 tuner Moxi has twice the memory (512MB), so it navigates faster and can handle the extra tuner and two Mates more easily.





bkdtv said:


> Good to know.
> 
> Again, good to know.
> 
> I updated the comparison chart.





fallingwater said:


> ...In that regard, have you verified boblablaw's info about Moxi having 4 tuner capability?
> http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7632847#post7632847
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17620814#post17620814


I goofed! 

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17622373#post17622373


> The only difference between the 2-tuner and the 3-tuner is 1 tuner (well, maybe some added memory, etc., in the 3-tuner). Otherwise, they work the same way; record 2 (or 3) programs while watching a recording, stream Netflix, etc. Right now they do not appear to sell the 3-tuner model without the Mate.
> 
> Like I said, all the Mate does is let you view things on a TV in another room. For example, I could be watching something in the family room and my daughter could be watching something else in her bedroom. The Mate has to be hard-wired to the internet, so you need one of the network extenders (Powerline, MoCA, dedicated cabling, etc.) for it to be of any use.
> 
> ...


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17624258#post17624258


> I definitely misunderstood. I did think the extra tuner depended on the Mate. I currently have a Mate connected via a Netgear Wireless-N access device but have never used it. For $799 the 3 tuner Moxi with Mate is a deal!


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## barry728 (Apr 14, 2003)

The biggest problem I have with Tivo now is the cost. I am moving this week and will be leaving Dish for Fios. I have 2 tvs and and will need to buy either two Tivos or a Moxi and a mate. Moxi and a mate costs $799 versus Tivos with lifetime service plans at $1550 (one Tivo HD and one Tivo HD XL). As much as I love Tivo I can't see paying that much more. I can't be the only one thinking this. Any guesses as to what Tivo will do to compete?


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

We'll have to wait and see what they bring out in the new 'Bestbuy Tivo' next year, because it doesn't look like they're willing to lower the price enough to compete right now.


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## mostman (Jul 16, 2000)

Someone with a Moxi setup help me out. Does the Mate offer any sort of downconversion on video? For example, I have 1 HD setup in the house, 2 standards. If I had the Mates on the two standards, would I be able to only watch things that were recorded on the HD DVR in standard def?

This is the way the TiVo works - and basically makes MRV useless for me.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

mostman said:


> Someone with a Moxi setup help me out. Does the Mate offer any sort of downconversion on video? For example, I have 1 HD setup in the house, 2 standards. If I had the Mates on the two standards, would I be able to only watch things that were recorded on the HD DVR in standard def?
> 
> This is the way the TiVo works - and basically makes MRV useless for me.


if you had 3 TiVo HDs then you could watch an HD show on any of the 3 sets as the TiVo would output the "SD" type connectors.
I assume the mates would be the same way


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

mostman said:


> Someone with a Moxi setup help me out. Does the Mate offer any sort of downconversion on video? For example, I have 1 HD setup in the house, 2 standards. If I had the Mates on the two standards, would I be able to only watch things that were recorded on the HD DVR in standard def?
> 
> This is the way the TiVo works - and basically makes MRV useless for me.


_
Sorry.. I did not answer your question. ignore my post._


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

mostman said:


> Someone with a Moxi setup help me out. Does the Mate offer any sort of downconversion on video? For example, I have 1 HD setup in the house, 2 standards. If I had the Mates on the two standards, would I be able to only watch things that were recorded on the HD DVR in standard def?


You'll be able to watch everything with the Moxi Mate on a SD TV. Just set the Moxi Mate to output SD instead of HD.


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## mostman (Jul 16, 2000)

bkdtv said:


> You'll be able to watch everything with the Moxi Mate on a SD TV. Just set the Moxi Mate to output SD instead of HD.


Very cool. This may be the thing that switches me over - especially when they add the 'watch live tv from another Moxi' feature. In order to do this with TiVo, as was suggested above, I would need to use an HD TiVo on a non HD TV - which, to me, is just a waste of money.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

mostman said:


> Very cool. This may be the thing that switches me over - especially when they add the 'watch live tv from another Moxi' feature. In order to do this with TiVo, as was suggested above, I would need to use an HD TiVo on a non HD TV - which, to me, is just a waste of money.


That is very close to the reason I switched over my Moxi plus 2 moxi mate system.

I did not want to get lifetime on three Tivo HDs.. this will save me money.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Will a Moxi be any better at handling SDV channels than my TiVo HD? (I doubt it). I believe their web site says they will use Tuning Adapters.
My primary complaints about my TiVo HD experience are all about SDV channels and the poor way TWC is implementing them. (Failure to tune, pixelation, TA dropping out). I see no reason to think a Moxi will provide better performance since it is dependent on the same TWC SDV/TA system that is performing so poorly on my HD.

My frustration with SDV/TA problems has reached the level where I'm seriously considering dropping digital cable. My primary motivation to pay the cost of switching to a Moxi would be the hope of getting reliable tuning and PQ on *all* digital channels. Sure wouldn't switch unless I was assured the SDV channel performance would be *much *better.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

dlfl said:


> Will a Moxi be any better at handling SDV channels than my TiVo HD? (I doubt it). ..... Sure wouldn't switch unless I was assured the SDV channel performance would be *much *better.


Too many variables... you will not get a any assurances it will be any better.


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## larrs (May 2, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> Even with just me, by myself, three tuners is nowhere near enough for recording shows. Even six wouldn't be enough. Eight is the bare minimum for just me and even then sometimes I have more than eight things recording concurrently.
> 
> Now if this three tuner Moxi would have been out six or seven years ago I would have been all over it.
> 
> Although It's better having the shows on a separate device. I can always transfer them to a another TiVo in 15 to 20 minutes for an hour show(for HD, I have no idea how quickly SD would transfer) to view in another room.


First, let me say that I enjoy your comments here as well as on AVS. However, I cannot keep up with you for sure! How in the world can you watch all of this content???

My MRV transfers in HD are barely real time and in most cases are slightly slower than real-time. I have one S3 and 3 THDs all connected via ethernet. Is your setup different? I would really love to be able to transfer that fast.


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## larrs (May 2, 2005)

IMHO, Tivo has only one major issue and that is the ability to schedule recordings and manage other Tivos from another. It is a pain to decide to record somehting and find out that Tivo is already scheudled to record something else, so you have to go to where another Tivo is to set the recording (or forget it like I often do). ReplayTV could at leat set a recording on another box if that one was busy.

All of the other issues are either "nice to haves" or are cosmetic.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

larrs said:


> First, let me say that I enjoy your comments here as well as on AVS. However, I cannot keep up with you for sure! How in the world can you watch all of this content???
> 
> My MRV transfers in HD are barely real time and in most cases are slightly slower than real-time. I have one S3 and 3 THDs all connected via ethernet. Is your setup different? I would really love to be able to transfer that fast.


I can't speak for the poster you quoted but the number of tuners you "need" is related to the number of TV viewers in your household. I don't watch the shows my daughters record.

Viewers who record live sports events have to pad. A tuner may be recording for an hour or more after the event ended.

I agree. I don't see how some of the posters have time to watch everything they record. I suspect at least some of the posters are recording shows for other family members. Some posters maintain an "inventory" of shows to watch during times networks typically show re-runs. Most of December, part of January and most of the summer.


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## ericlhyman (May 19, 2001)

Is Tivo exhibiting at CES in January?

Any news about whether Tivo will have a feature like the Moxi mate?


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I believe they are supposed to be there, but from what I have read Tivo hasn't made an announcement at CES since 2005. engadgethd. If they have anything on display it would most likely be the products we already know about like the new Directivo and the Best Buy branded Tivo.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

dlfl said:


> Will a Moxi be any better at handling SDV channels than my TiVo HD? (I doubt it). I believe their web site says they will use Tuning Adapters.


Moxi users are having the same problems. See this page and the following page.

When the SDV adapter resets -- this isn't specific to TiVo -- the TiVo, Moxi, Windows Media Center lose all channels. The Moxi usually requires a reboot to restore those channels.

I would guess that both TiVo and Moxi are working with providers on this issue. The SDV TAs do work very well in many markets, with few to none of these problems, to the issues do appear to be head-end setup/configuration related.


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## Gary-B (Jun 4, 2009)

Watch where you buy your Moxi. The three tuner model on moxi.com lists the model as MR-1500T3, but if you buy that model from Amazon it's only a 2 tuner. Moxi is using the same model number for both. Mine's in the box ready to go back.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

ericlhyman said:


> Is Tivo exhibiting at CES in January?
> 
> Any news about whether Tivo will have a feature like the Moxi mate?


If TiVo is working on such a solution, I would not expect to hear about it before CES in January.

At the moment, it certainly looks like TiVo is falling behind. Moxi continues to heavily invest in its core DVR functionality, with a number of new features coming in January and beyond.

Of course, perceptions can change very quickly when new products are introduced. I think most understand that TiVo is limited by older 2007 hardware, and new a model refresh would change that.



Gary-B said:


> Watch where you buy your Moxi. The three tuner model on moxi.com lists the model as MR-1500T3, but if you buy that model from Amazon it's only a 2 tuner. Moxi is using the same model number for both. Mine's in the box ready to go back.


MR-1500T3 is the designation of the original dual-tuner model.

The triple-tuner model is a Moxi.com exclusive for now. It is available only in the bundle with the extender for $799.


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## dtee (Sep 29, 2006)

Give me a one Terabyte drive and I would be willing to give it a try. Seems like an awesome three room solution. Three tuners with only a 500 gig drive is simply not big enough. I had a lousy experience with a Series 3 Tivo and a WD E-Sata drive. It made the Series 3 unstable and eventually crippled it. If E-Sata was truly invisible that would be a big plus for the Moxi. In my view rock solid stability is a necessity in a DVR. The hardware must disappear in the DVR experience. That's why I will refuse to go the Microsoft route, I want the experience to simply work and I do not want to be a tech support administrator to my DVR. I wish Apple would just buy Tivo and refine the heck out of it.


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## heberman (Nov 20, 2009)

The Moxi looks cool, but I passed as soon as I learned there was no OTA antenna support.


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## oregonman (Jul 1, 2002)

barry728 said:


> The biggest problem I have with Tivo now is the cost. I am moving this week and will be leaving Dish for Fios. I have 2 tvs and and will need to buy either two Tivos or a Moxi and a mate. Moxi and a mate costs $799 versus Tivos with lifetime service plans at $1550 (one Tivo HD and one Tivo HD XL). As much as I love Tivo I can't see paying that much more. I can't be the only one thinking this. Any guesses as to what Tivo will do to compete?


Don't forget to factor in the extra cablecard you will need for two Tivos vs. the Moxi. That adds $3.99 per month to the Tivo cost (or whatever your provider charges). I haven't seen that cost highlighted in the cost comparisons. If you are comparing 3 TV solutions it is $7.98 per month.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

oregonman said:


> Don't forget to factor in the extra cablecard you will need for two Tivos vs. the Moxi. That adds $3.99 per month to the Tivo cost (or whatever your provider charges). I haven't seen that cost highlighted in the cost comparisons. If you are comparing 3 TV solutions it is $7.98 per month.


The MoxiMate doesn't support liveTV, so that isn't an advantage for Moxi quite yet. A second TiVo does not require a CableCard to view recordings from the first TiVo.

Once the MoxiMate does support liveTV (mid January), it will be another key advantage, as it will avoid not only the CableCard fees, but also the secondary digital outlet fees charged by some providers.

In many areas, Comcast charges an extra $1.50 to $2.75 for the second CableCard, but they also charge an $4 to $6 for the second digital outlet. They charge that outlet fee when a customer has a second box with a CableCard or a second cable co STB/DVR. One won't have to pay that with the Moxi Mate.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

bkdtv said:


> Once the MoxiMate does support liveTV (mid January), it will be another key advantage, as it will avoid not only the CableCard fees, but also the secondary digital outlet fees charged by some providers.


If only it had 4 tuners. A 3 room system with 3 tuners would be quite limited. I think for most cases 4 tuners could cover a 3 room system very well (except when 2 recordings are happening at once). Of course, if you don't watch all 3 tvs at once, 3 tuners could be plenty.

I really dig the extender idea. However, there's no way TiVo can offer an extender until they move beyond 2 tuners. I don't think an extender would work that well in that situation.


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## Kerry (Apr 24, 2002)

> They also dropped the price of the 2 tuner model to 499.


 Today, 5/28/10, Moxi_Guy posted that they have discontinued the 2-Tuner Moxi.

FYI: 3-Tuner Moxis might not work with all cable companies because of the SDV problem. Some SDV Adapters don't support three tuners, so ask your cable company if their Tuning Adapter (provided free) supports 3 tuners.

http://moxi.com/us/moxi_dvr.html "Some cable companies use a technology called Switched Digital Video to transmit TV stations. If your cable provider uses Switched Digital Video, you will need to use an SDV adapter. Some cable providers only support two tuners with their SDV adapters. Please contact your cable provider to find out if you live in an SDV area and how many tuners their adapter supports."

BTW: Moxi doesn't have any ads in their TV guide or anywhere and no monthly fee. Apparently they read our posts here complaining about ads and saw that TiVO wouldn't stop the ads and so they now provide what TiVO won't.

Kerry


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## Kerry (Apr 24, 2002)

mostman said:


> Someone with a Moxi setup help me out. Does the Mate offer any sort of downconversion on video? For example, I have 1 HD setup in the house, 2 standards. If I had the Mates on the two standards, would I be able to only watch things that were recorded on the HD DVR in standard def?
> 
> This is the way the TiVo works - and basically makes MRV useless for me.


Ask at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=18655052#post18655052 Moxi plans to have their own member's forum soon.

Kerry


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Kerry said:


> BTW: Moxi doesn't have any ads in their TV guide or anywhere and no monthly fee. Apparently they read our posts here complaining about ads and saw that TiVO wouldn't stop the ads and so they now provide what TiVO won't.
> 
> Kerry


Moxi doesn't have any ads YET, because it is not an established product. No one is going to waste their money buying ad space until Moxi becomes a more prominent DVR. BTW, Tivo doesn't have any ads on it's TV guide either.

Moxi FORCES you to pay for their service up front.
Tivo gives you the option to pay up front, pay yearly, or pay monthly. How are fewer choices better?

Got anything else?


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

steve614 said:


> Moxi doesn't have any ads YET, because it is not an established product. No one is going to waste their money buying ad space until Moxi becomes a more prominent DVR. BTW, Tivo doesn't have any ads on it's TV guide either.
> 
> Moxi FORCES you to pay for their service up front.
> Tivo gives you the option to pay up front, pay yearly, or pay monthly. How are fewer choices better?
> ...


Wow...

Either they they have ads or not.. none of this "yet" BS.


Moxi has no ads.
Tivo have ads.

Those two bullet points are facts.

Quit trying to make yourself feel better by saying that Moxi will get ads in the future when you do not know that for a fact.

Your Tivo has ads ... deal with it.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

ConsumerReports did a DVR shootout and gave the big thumbs up to the Tivo Premiere over the Moxi.

"While we like seeing more choices in the standalone DVR market, TiVo is, and remains, the clear winner in our shootout. The Premiere XL is well designed, easy to use, and comes packed with a bigger hard drive that can store more HD programs. The upgraded search function, which seamlessly searches live TV, recorded programs, and online services, is a big improvement, and the addition of the capacity meter finally addresses a long-standing, common gripe among users. For some, the annual subscription fee on top of the upfront hardware cost remains an impediment, and it would be nice if wireless was built in rather than offered as an option. But if you want more features and storage than what you&#8217;d get from a standard cable DVR and don&#8217;t mind paying a bit more for it, TiVo is still the way to go.

Despite a few significant shortcomings, there are some things to like about Moxi, starting with the colorful, fresh look of its interface and no recurring service charges. The Moxi HD DVR capably performs its basic mission of recording programs, and we like its multi-room, the ability to add lots more storage, and the long buffering time for live TV shows. And the unique SuperTicker feature, which brings a lot of useful content to your TV screen.

While we liked the look of Moxi&#8217;s interface, actually using it wasn&#8217;t intuitive; when combined with the remote&#8217;s confusing control and button layout, you expect a decent learning curve. Other drawbacks include the lack of any ATSC tuners for receiving free over-the-air HD broadcasts, and the need to purchase a separate adapter kit ($130) to get analog cable channels if your cable company hasn&#8217;t yet gone all-digital.

But the real deal-breaker for us is the inability to directly access online content. Given how easy it view streaming movies and TV shows these days&#8212;even on inexpensive Blu-ray players and videogame systems&#8212;Moxi&#8217;s work-around, which requires PlayOn software to be running on a Windows-based PC, seems antiquated and kludgy. Also, the lack of a Wi-Fi option means you&#8217;ll need a wired Ethernet connection, which could be an issue for some.

As an unproven newcomer, Moxi is in the unenviable position of not only having to be better than the DVRs provided by cable, but also superior to TiVo&#8217;s latest offerings. In at least this iteration of the product, Moxi exceeds what cable provides, but falls short of topping TiVo&#8217;s newest model, the Premiere XL."


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

fatlard said:


> Wow...
> 
> Either they they have ads or not.. none of this "yet" BS.
> 
> ...


Personally the ads on my TiVos don't make me feel bad at all - I like them - as it increase the chances that TiVo will be successful and will be able to be more price competitive in the future. For me ads vs no ads would be about the last thing I would use to make a DVR buying decision.

That said Moxi does some things TiVo doesn't and the same is true for TiVo it does things Moxi doesn't. Everyone should buy what works best for them so if Moxi works better for you than TiVo buy it. I can assure you most people (including those on this forum) could care less what DVR you own.


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## Kerry (Apr 24, 2002)

fatlard said:


> Wow...
> 
> Either they they have ads or not.. none of this "yet" BS.
> 
> ...


Thanks for making my point Fatlard. It's upsetting to have a poster argue with a point; it's as though they work for TiVO or get a commission for sticking up for TiVO.

To my way of thinking the exrta cost of a Moxi is off-set in one year of TiVO's premiums ($12.95 x 12= $155.40), and, I won't have to spend my life turning off the "pause" pop up ad while in my PIP viewing mode.

I'm betting there are thousands like myself who would pay $1.00 more per month for an option of zero ads.

It looks to me that as soon as my 5-yr-old AT&T Series II dies I'll be getting a Moxi 3-tuner soley because I detest the subliminal-like ads at the bottom of TiVO's menus. Too sneaky for me. Moxi still being new listens to and values it's customer's opinions and wishes.

Thanks,

Kerry


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

fatlard said:


> Wow...
> 
> Either they they have ads or not.. none of this "yet" BS.
> 
> ...


What? I'm not allowed to make a prediction?  Don't come running back here crying when Moxi realizes what extra money could be made. 
Like atmuscarella above, the ads on Tivo don't bother me one bit. They are easily ignored. If you see the ads on a Tivo, you're spending too much time in the interface. 
So is that it? I noticed you didn't argue the point on service fees.


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

How do the Moxi Mates work in practice? That 100MB Ethernet interface looks rather weak when streaming 2 HD channels to 2 Mates, especially if you have other stuff happening on your network too.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

tivogurl said:


> How do the Moxi Mates work in practice? That 100MB Ethernet interface looks rather weak when streaming 2 HD channels to 2 Mates, especially if you have other stuff happening on your network too.


It works just fine. I have the main Moxi recording three shows and watching one recorded shows and streaming two shows to the Moxi mates without a problem.


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## deandashl (Aug 8, 2008)

From a "basic" hardware concept, this is what TiVo needs. A three tuner unit and extenders. Then add streaming for iPad, iPhone, etc.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Why not four tuners?


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## deandashl (Aug 8, 2008)

We get it. Why not four, five, ten tuners. Yes, yes. We get it. You spend all day watching this forum to post these responses? Com'on! Gotta be better training than that! 

Yes. "Stop posting, you bad negative people." "I'll try to make all your comments seem crazy." Gotta keep control of negative comments. Whatever it takes, day and night. Deflect, reflect, go off on tangents, be-little, off-focus issues, spelling, whatever. 

Of course, TiVo is slowly disappearing, but that's as not important as defending the failing status quo. Keep loving TiVo as it is, and there will be no TiVo. Soon TiVo will just be a bank account.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

deandashl said:


> Change, (or just keeping up with the competition) it's a difficult concept for some.


It is much harder for some posters to accept change especially when they have 8 Tivo Premiere at home.


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## deandashl (Aug 8, 2008)

fatlard said:


> It is much harder for some posters to accept change especially when they have 8 Tivo Premiere at home.


It's amusing.

He's a perfect candidate for a central multi-tuner (more than 2) TiVo DVR with wireless N extenders. He's too busy defending failure to see it.

He'd rather have 5 cableCARDS, 7 full TiVo's, 5 lifetimes, and 2 monthly subscriptions.

Than have 1 three tuner DVR, 1 cableCARD, 1 subscription and a bunch of cheap extenders.

Logic, it's a difficult concept. Full defensive mode is much easier.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

fatlard said:


> It is much harder for some posters to accept change especially when they have 8 Tivo Premiere at home.


Personal slams on users are not appropriate forum behavior, how many Tivo's any user has does not affect the core discussion.
There are more then a few forum members that also feel the moxi only discussion doesn't have a place here.

Diane


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

deandashl said:


> It's amusing.
> 
> He's a perfect candidate for a central multi-tuner (more than 2) TiVo DVR with wireless N extenders. He's too busy defending failure to see it.
> 
> ...


Wow so 3 tuners with extenders is equal to 14 tuners? I didn't realize 500gb was also equal to 5x320gb and 2x1TB drives plus storage on a home server. I also didn't realize $300 is cheap for an extender. I guess I am used to paying $170 for my extenders that also do more.

I just don't see the logic in your post.


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

fatlard said:


> It works just fine. I have the main Moxi recording three shows and watching one recorded shows and streaming two shows to the Moxi mates without a problem.


No stuttering even if you have other stuff happening on the network, like somebody watching videos or downloading something?


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

dianebrat said:


> Personal slams on users are not appropriate forum behavior, how many Tivo's any user has does not affect the core discussion.
> There are more then a few forum members that also feel the moxi only discussion doesn't have a place here.
> 
> Diane


I agree about personal slams but whats with the Moxi only discussions should not be allowed when we talk about toilets, and iPads, and everything else?


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

zalusky said:


> I agree about personal slams but whats with the Moxi only discussions should not be allowed when we talk about toilets, and iPads, and everything else?


I think her point like may others, is those happen in Happy Hour and not TiVo discussion.


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## deandashl (Aug 8, 2008)

innocentfreak said:


> Wow so 3 tuners with extenders is equal to 14 tuners? I didn't realize 500gb was also equal to 5x320gb and 2x1TB drives plus storage on a home server. I also didn't realize $300 is cheap for an extender. I guess I am used to paying $170 for my extenders that also do more.
> 
> I just don't see the logic in your post.


And we all need 14 tuners. Yup, 14. I'm sure he REALLY needs 14.

And if he really needs more than 3 tuners then buy 2 TiVo DVR's and have 6 tuners; still cheaper than 7 TiVo DVR's. Be willing to think it through, just a little.

And we all need the full Hard Drive space of 7 TiVo's too. "SEVEN" TiVo's.

500 GB? That's Moxi, TiVo would be 1 TB.

$300 for an extender? You're talking Moxi again. TiVo has no extender, yet. However, $300 is cheaper than ANY TiVo with a lifetime subscription, including the owners upgrade discount. And with package deals, Moxi Mates are more like $200.

Then you forgot to mention dumping 4 CableCARD rental $$ and the "additional outlet $$" that may come with them.

Plus, TiVo would do it all better with newer hardware and (eventually) better SW, too.

I see the logic, it's VERY clear to me.

TiVo would be wise to CATCH-UP on this functionality. Otherwise, we can continue down the "disappearing TiVo" road. I like TiVo, I want the company to be successful. That means they need to be better. Defending the same, is.....well.....the same; and that's not working very well.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

deandashl said:


> And we all need 14 tuners. Yup, 14. I'm sure he REALLY needs 14.
> 
> And if he really needs more than 3 tuners then buy 2 TiVo DVR's and have 6 tuners; still cheaper than 7. Be willing to think it through, just a little.
> 
> ...


No one is unwilling to think it through. What you are saying doesn't work though since TiVo doesn't offer the replacement you are suggesting and with Moxi missing the features that some people want it isn't even a consideration.

Nowhere did I say everyone needs his, mine, or anyone else's setup. At the same time I am not the one assuming what anyone needs or uses. I know what works for me and based off his posts it is pretty clear he needs/wants the setup he has based off what hardware is available that meets his criteria.

No one is saying TiVo don't make a box with more tuners. Some of us are just saying Moxi isn't the solution when you take away the features we use.

Personally I would love to see a 4-6 tuner TiVo with at least a 2TB drive. I would still have one at each TV. Hell I would love a 12 tuner TiVo with 1+6 hot swappable hard drive bays for expanding storage. I have no need for extenders though and wouldn't trade transfers for streaming. Even with a TiVo Server I would have a 2 tuner TiVo at every TV.

Yes $300 is less than a TiVo with lifetime, but you lose 2 tuners and recording space just to name a few. You also don't have full remote controls so you can't schedule a recording or delete a show from what I understand. For an extra $8-10 a month I would rather have a full Tivo.


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## shaown (Jul 1, 2002)

So, deandashl, you keep discussing how he doesn't need 14 tuners, but apparently u do need 3 tuners, etc. I'd suggest we all agree people have different needs.

For me? I need 4 tuners, not 3, not 6, but 4. Period. And I need to feed two TVs. So Moxi gives me nothing over Tivo on that specific feature. I have two Tivos, with dual tuners, hooked up via ethernet. And luckily for me, Cablevision does not CCI flag their content on most channels (just movie channels it seems). 

I also need access to SDV content - and my TAs work well.

I think the problem is, that while we can all agree 3 tuners > 2 tuners, and extenders > not having an extender option, we are overinflating the value of these features in the general market. I asked several friends who were over today (less techie) if they wanted to to be able to watch 1 live show while recording another. They said - sounds great. Then I asked do you want to be able to record 1 live show while recording 2 others (seemed the best way to explain 3 tuners). They said - ummm we don't care. I think that is probably the majority of the market 

So Tivo probably surveryed the market and said - x small percent want greater than 2 tuners, and y small percent of that number are not willing to pay for multiple boxes. And then they said it costs an extra whatever (say 10 bucks) per box in HW and/or support costs (i.e. calls like my Cisco TA which only supports 2 tuners is not working with the third tuner) and that was not worth it for the lost sales.

However - no hit on Moxi, they are smart to differentiate themselves however they can, and 3 tuners is a clear advantage for them - with some customers.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

tivogurl said:


> No stuttering even if you have other stuff happening on the network, like somebody watching videos or downloading something?


No stuttering... On a switch you are only streaming from one Moxi to the other within the private network.. It does not need to contend with someone downloading or watching from the internet.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> I think her point like may others, is those happen in Happy Hour and not TiVo discussion.


That would be exactly my point.
Bringing up Moxi in a discussion as a comparison to Tivo works for me, but bringing up a purely Moxi specific topic such as where this thread started, would IMNSHO be a Happy Hour thread.

Diane


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

dianebrat said:


> That would be exactly my point.
> Bringing up Moxi in a discussion as a comparison to Tivo works for me, but bringing up a purely Moxi specific topic such as where this thread started, would IMNSHO be a Happy Hour thread.
> 
> Diane


You knw its funny because of dvrs people say they don't know when a show is on or even what channel it is on.

In the case of this forum I just do a get new and never pay attention to what sub forum I am in and really don't care. Why is this such a big deal.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

zalusky said:


> ...In the case of this forum I just do a get new and never pay attention to what sub forum I am in and really don't care. Why is this such a big deal.


What are you talking about? Get new what?


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

atmuscarella said:


> Personally the ads on my TiVos don't make me feel bad at all - I like them - as it increase the chances that TiVo will be successful and will be able to be more price competitive in the future.


Do you also like all the ads in the TV programs, because it allows the television networks to be more successful? or do you fast-forward through them like everyone else?

Nobody likes ads.

Considering the very high subscription price of Tivo service, there is really no justification for polluting the device with advertising in addition. The company already charges too much for it's service. If that isn't enough, then they need to get out of the DVR market, and someone else can move in and make the product.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

smbaker said:


> Do you also like all the ads in the TV programs, because it allows the television networks to be more successful? or do you fast-forward through them like everyone else?
> 
> Nobody likes ads.
> 
> Considering the very high subscription price of Tivo service, there is really no justification for polluting the device with advertising in addition. The company already charges too much for it's service. If that isn't enough, then they need to get out of the DVR market, and someone else can move in and make the product.


How much do the MSOs charge for their DVRs? Some charge more per month than TiVo. Should they get out of the DVR market too?


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## Brainiac 5 (Aug 25, 2003)

smbaker said:


> Do you also like all the ads in the TV programs, because it allows the television networks to be more successful?


I'm not the person you're asking, but: yes.

Ads don't only allow the broadcast networks to be successful, they allow them to exist at all. So, yes I think they're a good thing.



> or do you fast-forward through them like everyone else?


I fast-forward through them, JUST LIKE I IGNORE THE ADS on TiVo.



> Nobody likes ads.


However, many people don't have a seething, burning hatred for them either.



> Considering the very high subscription price of Tivo service, there is really no justification for polluting the device with advertising in addition. The company already charges too much for it's service. If that isn't enough, then they need to get out of the DVR market, and someone else can move in and make the product.


If enough people hate the ads enough to stop using TiVo, they will either get rid of the ads or go out of business; that's the way it works. I'd rather have TiVo, even with ads, than any of the current alternatives that don't have them. If there are enough people who think that way, they'll keep the ads and you're free to buy something else.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

orangeboy said:


> What are you talking about? Get new what?


You can hit the "New Posts" under your avatar on the home page or bookmark this link

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/search.php?do=getnew

It will only show you the updated threads since your last visit. There all lumped together so I never really pay much attention to what subforum I am in.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

deandashl said:


> Yes. "Stop posting, you bad negative people." "I'll try to make all your comments seem crazy."


yes he should try and be as objective and agendaless as you - oh and here it is-- wait for it.......... 



zalusky said:


> You can hit the "New Posts" under your avatar on the home page or bookmark this link
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/search.php?do=getnew
> 
> It will only show you the updated threads since your last visit. There all lumped together so I never really pay much attention to what subforum I am in.


 all I can say is that the forum owners did put the subforums in for fairly specific reasons that most everyone seems to think are useful reasons


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

smbaker said:


> Nobody likes ads.
> 
> .


the vast majority of people love super bowl ads... i like ads for new products and new movies, and i like very funny ads... and who doesn't like the occasional victoria secret ad?

i get your point, no one is jumping for joy about ads on TiVo... but i honestly barely notice them, maybe they are more severe on previous TiVo's but on my TPXL they are certianly few and far between... seems like a lot of hubbub about nothing


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

deandashl said:


> It's amusing.
> 
> He's a perfect candidate for a central multi-tuner (more than 2) TiVo DVR with wireless N extenders. He's too busy defending failure to see it.
> 
> ...


"...Than have 1 three tuner DVR, 1 cableCARD, 1 subscription and a bunch of cheap extenders..." 
I hope that is a joke, three tuners?!?!

You obviously don't get it. Even back in 2001, I had three HD tuners. I could record HD with two of them. Even back in 2001, three tuners was not enough to record HD content I watched, it's certainly not enough for today.. Today in 2010, I will sometimes be recording eight to ten items concurrently in HD(right now four programs are being recorded and it's not even Prime Time). So I would need at least 3 moxi boxes with three tuners each, and several mates. How much will that cost? And how will I transfer that content to my fifty Terabytes of network storage.? Can I do it woth Moxi? No, I can't with Moxi.

No matter how good or bad Moxi is, It is not a viable solution for me if I can't transfer my recordings over my network for permanent storage.

Would a box with more tuners be good, Of course it would. If TiVo had three tuners I would have four or Five TiVos instead of seven. But a box that can't transfer recordings to a PC for storage over the network is uselesss for me. But that is me and my needs. Your needs are obviously different. If Moxi would have been around in 2001, I would have jumped on it, instead of TiVo. But It wasn't so I got TiVos as backups for recording SD content and HiPIx cards for PCs for HD recording. And in 2004 when tiVo came out with an HD recording model, I got that. Where was Moxi then?
So Moxi came out last year, after I had been using TiVo for almost a decade. With nothing that was compelling for my use to encourage me to switch. Perhaps if it had I would have tried it, but it didn't. And since they were late to the game, with a system that the only advantage for me is 3 tuners, I am not going to get it.(of course if they allow transfers to a PC for permanent storage I might reconsider)

But, At this point if I buy anything else it will be a Ceton 4 tuner card. Yes one tuner more than Moxi. And I will take one of my five cable cards from FiOS and put it in the Ceton. I'll make my decision once my brother gets his Ceton card and I can take a look at it.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

smbaker said:


> Do you also like all the ads in the TV programs, because it allows the television networks to be more successful? or do you fast-forward through them like everyone else?
> 
> Nobody likes ads.
> 
> Considering the very high subscription price of Tivo service, there is really no justification for polluting the device with advertising in addition. The company already charges too much for it's service. If that isn't enough, then they need to get out of the DVR market, and someone else can move in and make the product.


I like any adds that don't bother me just fine - they pay for stuff so I don't have to. I actually had to go look for adds on my TiVos to see what everyone is pissing and moaning about - as I didn't even notice they were there. I absolutely like adds being on TV as I watch primarily OTA and without the adds it wouldn't be there. But yes I do try to avoid TV adds that bother me - I do watch the adds for moves and new tv shows plus some others but I do avoid as many as possible.

Regarding TiVo's costs I don't find them to be high at all - of course if you can find me another DVR that does what TiVo does for me either better or at a lower cost I would be more than willing to look at it.

Thanks,


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

The ability to skip over commercials greatly outweighs the ads that are part of the TIVO interface. Unlike a commercial, you don't have to wait for a TIVO ad to finish before you can use the TIVO features.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

shwru980r said:


> The ability to skip over commercials greatly outweighs the ads that are part of the TIVO interface. Unlike a commercial, you don't have to wait for a TIVO ad to finish before you can use the TIVO features.


Heck, my old dumb VCRs would skip (FF) over ads.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

shwru980r said:


> The ability to skip over commercials greatly outweighs the ads that are part of the TIVO interface. Unlike a commercial, you don't have to wait for a TIVO ad to finish before you can use the TIVO features.


I never even notice theses ads. I have to specifically look for them to even see anything.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

deandashl said:


> ...........I see the logic, it's VERY clear to me.
> 
> ..........




Logic? sending me back 9 years ago when I only had 3 HD tuners? Where is the logic in that.

Does anyone NEED a TV or a TiVo or A Moxi? Of course not, they are luxury items. Do I need seven TiVos or eight Blu-ray Disc players, six HD DVD players, or four Xbox 360s. Of course not. But I have multiple items to make things easier. Since I have more than one TV.(even forty years ago growing up, we had a TV in every bedroom, in the kitchen, my dads work area, and rec room) So I have devices to use at every TV.
How I choose to spend my money is my choice.

Although I don't see the logic in spending money on a recording device that doesn't allow you to transfer the content for permanent storage on a Blu-ray disc(or even an old school DVD),PC or another hard drive over the network. Now where is the logic in that?


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

In other news, Motorola offers a 4 tuner box with 500gb in Japan that also works with IPTV, Satellite, and OTA.

http://hd.engadget.com/2010/05/31/motorolas-4-tuner-dvr-for-japan/


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

deandashl said:


> And we all need 14 tuners. Yup, 14. I'm sure he REALLY needs 14.
> 
> .................


Where the heck were you when I had nine S3 boxes(three S3, six tiVoHD)?

I've had multiple TiVos for many years going back to the early 2000's with DirecTV, and they have been in my signature and now you suddenly have an issue with me having only seven Premieres?

TiVo made it worth it to upgrade to the Premiere boxes. For a very minimal cost after selling the old S3 boxes, I now have new Premieres with three year warranties. That deal was far too good to pass up. So why weren't you harping on me when I had more TiVos. When I had my six tiVos(three HD, three SD) on DirecTV back in 2004? Or all my S3 units? Aren't you a little slow?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

deandashl said:


> And we all need 14 tuners. Yup, 14. I'm sure he REALLY needs 14.
> 
> And if he really needs more than 3 tuners then buy 2 _TiVo DVR's_ and have 6 tuners; still cheaper than 7 TiVo DVR's. Be willing to think it through, just a little.


maybe if you dropped your agenda you would be able to post clearly and also think more clearly about what he has stated as his reasons for the DVRs he has.

Really you should actually just drop the whole thing as it is only reducing any credibility you had before this.


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