# TIVO Units Rebooting, anyone else have same issue ?



## arcusjim (Feb 24, 2015)

For the last two weeks, my new Tivo Roamio has been rebooting consistently when connected to the network. To stop the reboot I have had to disconnect the ethernet which makes all my mini's useless. 

I opened up a case with Tivo and they informed me that they are having an issue with ALL Tivo models and are trying to find out why they are rebooting. Is anyone else having this issue ?

From TIVO "Thanks for patiently waiting. Upon checking our records, this is already a known issue. Our Engineers are still investigating the problem. We don't have an ETA as of the moment but for software updates, we usually release minor software updates to fix bug fixes once in every month or two."


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## mtnagel (Nov 15, 2003)

I just got a Roamio late last week, but it has restarted once, but it seemed like it crashed as it didn't respond to remote commands. But I'm only connected with wifi.


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## arcusjim (Feb 24, 2015)

The unit will reboot once it grabs an IP address with either Ethernet or Wifi. If it keeps restarting (more then once a day )you should open up a ticket.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

@arcusjim, I had this problem a while back, as did a few others. My issue cleared-up after a few days, but another user, who'd been suffering with the issue for much longer, worked with TiVo and they traced the issue to SkipMode files. I'll see if I can find that user's post on the issue (user = @TishTash).

edit: See here for @TishTash's post Re: SkipMode-related reboots: TiVo restarts but only when connected to Internet​
In the meantime, one way to allow the Minis access to the Roamio is to block the Roamio's access to the Internet via a tweak to your router's settings. This way, the Roamio can be connected to your home network, allowing Mini access, but prevented from connecting to the mothership and avoiding the reboot trigger.

edit: See this post for an example method for blocking Internet access for a DVR, in this case using an ASUS router's Parental Controls feature: Roamio Pros repeatedly rebooting when networked​


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Out of curiosity, what model Roamio is having the problem, how big is its hard drive and what's it utilization?

The earlier rebooting issues a number of us experienced seemed to be related to very large DIY hard drive upgrades (6-8 TB), and having a high number of recordings.


krkaufman said:


> Box: Roamio Pros (2x: 6TB and 8TB; 2845 & 3263 shows; 85% & 90% full; 357 & 238 OnePasses)
> OS: 20.7.4.*RC30*
> Network: Ethernet


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## Docvoll (Jun 3, 2018)

I already posted that since horizontal bar auto upgrade any app usage causes restart. Tivo gave me the same ‘wait for fix ‘ message now 5 weeks and running.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

That's a lot of one passes and a lot of data on that had drive. I guess that's why you have it but...where do you find the time to watch 300 one passes?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

mattyro7878 said:


> That's a lot of one passes and a lot of data on that had drive. I guess that's why you have it but...where do you find the time to watch 300 one passes?


I don't. There are 6+ people in the house with varied tastes; and many of the OnePasses are just streaming bookmarks.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> In the meantime, one way to allow the Minis access to the Roamio is to block the Roamio's access to the Internet via a tweak to your router's settings. This way, the Roamio can be connected to your home network, allowing Mini access, but prevented from connecting to the mothership and avoiding the reboot trigger.


For how long can a Roamio be blocked from the Internet before it becomes almost unusable?

Background: I have a Roamio that accesses the Internet as a MoCA client. A second Roamio is the MoCA <--> Ethernet bridge to the rest of the network and the Internet itself. This setup regularly breaks, because apparently Roamios periodically forget to bridge if they are allowed to go to sleep. But that's not my concern here. Eventually I will deal with that by not allowing the Roamio to bridge. I will get a standalone adapter such as Motorola MM1000 to bridge.

The problem is the MoCA client Roamio. Because of the faulty bridging, this client Roamio periodically says it's no longer connected to the Internet. And when that happens, almost no functionality is available. E.g. something as simple as "To Do List" is dimmed out and can't be accessed. Really? The todo list requires a conversation with the mothership?

I normally deal with the problem by rebooting both Roamios. That's crude but effective and doesn't really bother me. It's the abysmal functionality when not connected to the Internet that really bothers me.

Of course, long term a DVR requires the Internet to function. E.g. to get guide data. But TiVo seems to have gone out of their way to limit basic functionality without access to the Internet.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

krkaufman said:


> The earlier rebooting issues a number of us experienced seemed to be related to very large DIY hard drive upgrades (6-8 TB), and having a high number of recording.


Roamio Plus w/ 3TB at about 55%. I've had about 5 or 6 spontaneous reboots since the RC30/RC29 release, including one yesterday.

When watching during a reboot, we see the screen freeze for a few seconds before the reboot. No apps were in use during any of my reboots (although kmttg is monitoring for auto-skip, but I have no reason to believe kmttg is to blame).

I've also seen the app list disappear (not restored by manual reboot) and then reappear for a short time later no apparent reason.


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## arcusjim (Feb 24, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> @arcusjim, I had this problem a while back, as did a few others. My issue cleared-up after a few days, but another user, who'd been suffering with the issue for much longer, worked with TiVo and they traced the issue to SkipMode files. I'll see if I can find that user's post on the issue (user = @TishTash).
> 
> edit: See here for @TishTash's post Re: SkipMode-related reboots: TiVo restarts but only when connected to Internet​
> In the meantime, one way to allow the Minis access to the Roamio is to block the Roamio's access to the Internet via a tweak to your router's settings. This way, the Roamio can be connected to your home network, allowing Mini access, but prevented from connecting to the mothership and avoiding the reboot trigger.
> ...


Thanks I will give it a try.


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## arcusjim (Feb 24, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> Out of curiosity, what model Roamio is having the problem, how big is its hard drive and what's it utilization?
> 
> The earlier rebooting issues a number of us experienced seemed to be related to very large DIY hard drive upgrades (6-8 TB), and having a high number of recordings.
> ​


This is a new unit with a 3tb drive in it. Tivo informed me that this problem affects all models and they have no idea why this is happening. After you open a ticket you can then call billing to credit your account for the time your Tivo is down. Reading the other posts, this becomes a witch hunt trying to find a solution to their problem. Here is what customer service told me:
Justin (2:49:14 PM):Thanks for patiently waiting. Upon checking our records, this is already a known issue. Our Engineers are still investigating the problem. We don't have an ETA as of the moment but for software updates, we usually release minor software updates to fix bug fixes once in every month or two. 
Justin (2:49:34 PM):Since the case has already been associated with our tracker, our Engineers will be contacting you via email or phone once we've come up with a fix. 
*Me (2:50:10 PM):is this only for roamios 
Me (2:50:20 PM)r all units ? 
Justin (2:51:40 PM):This is on all models. Not just the Roamio. *


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> For how long can a Roamio be blocked from the Internet before it becomes almost unusable?


You'll have about two weeks before guide info runs out, after which One Passes will no longer record. You should still have access to recorded content -- not sure how much of an issue you'll have with the annoying blue circles.



> Background: I have a Roamio that accesses the Internet as a MoCA client. A second Roamio is the MoCA <--> Ethernet bridge to the rest of the network and the Internet itself. This setup regularly breaks, because apparently Roamios periodically forget to bridge if they are allowed to go to sleep. But that's not my concern here. Eventually I will deal with that by not allowing the Roamio to bridge. I will get a standalone adapter such as Motorola MM1000 to bridge.



My Roamio is set to sleep after two hours of inactivity, and it is the MoCA bridge. I haven't had any complaints of my Premiere or minis failing to function while the Roamio is asleep. I do see some message about MoCA bandwidth issues -- don't know if they are related or not.



> The problem is the MoCA client Roamio. Because of the faulty bridging, this client Roamio periodically says it's no longer connected to the Internet. And when that happens, almost no functionality is available. E.g. something as simple as "To Do List" is dimmed out and can't be accessed. Really? The todo list requires a conversation with the mothership?


That seems really odd. I've never seen my ToDo list dimmed out. I have seen Apps disappear, but I don't think that is MoCA related in any way.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

snerd said:


> My Roamio is set to sleep after two hours of inactivity, and it is the MoCA bridge. I haven't had any complaints of my Premiere or minis failing to function while the Roamio is asleep. I do see some message about MoCA bandwidth issues -- don't know if they are related or not.
> 
> That seems really odd. I've never seen my ToDo list dimmed out. I have seen Apps disappear, but I don't think that is MoCA related in any way.


Okay, I was casting asparagus (or maybe casting aspersions) on MoCA without being sure of the source of my problem of losing connection to the Internet. I just assumed it was the MoCA bridge function of the Roamio. IIRC I read somewhere here that when a Roamio is a bridge it sometimes forgets to actually bridge when it goes to sleep. But I can't find that thread right now.

The behavior I do see on both Roamios is very similar to what was reported a while ago on a Bolt by some other guy:
20.7.4 has arrived!

Quoting from that post:
My Bolt did the same thing last night, couldn't access History, ToDo list, or any of my other Roamios.
Connected, no change.
Tested internet connection, no change.

Next time this happens I will try the fix from that post, which is to put the Roamio into standby and to wake it back up again. Maybe that will work. FWIW my Roamios are on software 20.7.4.RC42

Edit: and when it says "tested internet connection", that what I also have been doing. Because the GUI offers to do that when this problem occurs. The bridging Roamio passes the connection test, but still can't access the To Do list. It wouldn't be software if it didn't have bugs.


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## alexgav (Jul 31, 2005)

krkaufman said:


> Out of curiosity, what model Roamio is having the problem, how big is its hard drive and what's it utilization?
> 
> The earlier rebooting issues a number of us experienced seemed to be related to very large DIY hard drive upgrades (6-8 TB), and having a high number of recordings.
> ​


I'm experiencing exactly this issue (random reboots with 8TB drive that's close to 50% full) - would you mind pointing me to the thread discussing this? What was the solution? I'm thinking I'm going to have to go back down to 3TB which would suck, but that TiVo is unusable at this point. Reboots both during recordings and while trying to watch certain shows. I self-diagnosed it to issues in playing back recently recorded shows (possibly the ones recorded passed the max allowed 3TB capacity). I hope there are some workarounds that would allow me to keep 8TB drive.


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## Prestond (Feb 4, 2008)

krkaufman said:


> Out of curiosity, what model Roamio is having the problem, how big is its hard drive and what's it utilization?
> 
> The earlier rebooting issues a number of us experienced seemed to be related to very large DIY hard drive upgrades (6-8 TB), and having a high number of recordings.
> ​


Roamio with standard hard drive reboots once or twice a day. Roamio with 500 gb drive reboots once or twice a day. Its when the play recorded show pre-ad plays.

Play a show and the screen turns black and it local up and reboots


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## josim (May 22, 2016)

Roamio basic w/500 GB drive and cable card. Play a recorded program and get the gray arrow and then reboot. It would do this maybe once per day for a week or two. Fingers crossed, it seem OK now.


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## jrgtivo (Mar 8, 2004)

Prestond said:


> Play a show and the screen turns black and it local up and reboots


I'm having this too. Chatted help over a week ago to get ads turned off but I still get them and the crashes.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Downgrade to TE3.


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## TishTash (Jan 24, 2008)

slowbiscuit said:


> Downgrade to TE3.


*womp womp* I have a Roamio with TE3 that reboots randomly when connected to the internet, i.e., Hydra / pre-roll ads [at least exclusively] don't seem to be the the issue.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Sure, TE3 reboots once in a while. But not every time you get these stupid ads forced on you if you stick with TE4.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

It seems like if I use my TE3 Premiere a lot , it is fine. If I ignore it for a few days while Im using my Roamio the Premiere acts like an old lawnmower in March. Lag lag lag---then restart. After the restart it is ok unless I ignore it for a day or two. Then it wacks out for a while- 3 buttons pushes later it will do the function you asked for 2 minutes ago. If I start pushing buttons it will go nuts and restart. Kind of like my gir


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## Eddie B (Jun 19, 2020)

slowbiscuit said:


> Downgrade to TE3.


How do you downgrade to TE3? Will downgrading to TE3 get rid of TiVo+ and the associated BS? I'm about to throw my TiVo in the trash after years of recommending it to friends. Now it's garbage with forced ads, continual lockups, reboots, and unwanted crap on my channel guide. I emailed TiVo customer service and got a "live with it" answer.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Eddie B said:


> How do you downgrade to TE3? Will downgrading to TE3 get rid of TiVo+ and the associated BS? I'm about to throw my TiVo in the trash after years of recommending it to friends. Now it's garbage with forced ads, continual lockups, reboots, and unwanted crap on my channel guide. I emailed TiVo customer service and got a "live with it" answer.


Link: How to Rollback Hydra from Roamio and Mini's v1

Works on Bolt, not on Bolt OTA.


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## das335 (Feb 8, 2006)

I've had a couple of reboots on my standard Roamio with cablecard over the last week. My bolt and Premiere that are OTA are not showing any reboot issues. All are connected to the internet via a Ethernet switch.


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## jeffsinsfo (Oct 16, 2005)

das335 said:


> I've had a couple of reboots on my standard Roamio with cablecard over the last week. My bolt and Premiere that are OTA are not showing any reboot issues. All are connected to the internet via a Ethernet switch.


My Roamio has been rebooting repeatedly for the past week. I originally thought it was related to unsuccessful attempts to connect to TiVo's server. Since I have been having problems with a few other devices randomly dropping from my router, I decided to replace it. Nothing else is randomly disconnecting any more and my TiVo says it's connected but it's still rebooting. In fact it did a "call home" at 6:22 that was supposedly successful yet it still rebooted. When I checked, it indicated it was going to make another attempt at 6:52 pm. Why would it try again after a half hour when the last effort was successful?

Needless to say I've already had a number of recordings that got interrupted in the middle due to these random reboots. The only work around that I think I've discovered so far is that if I force a connection that succeeds that it will then update the time of the next attempt to the following day. I suppose that if I baby sit my Roamio I can force a connection when nothing is recording (just in case it causes a reboot) and then check the status for when the next attempt will be made. If it's the following day, I can ignore it then and keep my fingers crossed that it won't reboot the rest of the day. With the need to baby sit the to-do list because of bad guide data and now the need to baby sit the daily connections, the TiVo experience I loved so much when I got my first TiVo 20 years ago is becoming a distant memory.


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## brobin (Feb 14, 2014)

I had something similar the other day. There was a message that there was only 1 day's worth of guide info and to connect. Forced a connect and all went well then had two random reboots that evening but has been stable ever since. Did you "upgrade" to the newest firmware with Auto-Skip? I think that the Roamio doesn't handle it that well and I may go back to the old firmware.


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## jeffsinsfo (Oct 16, 2005)

brobin said:


> I had something similar the other day. There was a message that there was only 1 day's worth of guide info and to connect. Forced a connect and all went well then had two random reboots that evening but has been stable ever since. Did you "upgrade" to the newest firmware with Auto-Skip? I think that the Roamio doesn't handle it that well and I may go back to the old firmware.


No, I haven't updated the Roamio. It's on 20.7.4b.RC3. Unfortunately the "work around" I thought I had discovered isn't working. I just forced a connection this morning. It was successful and yet it still indicates it's going to make another connection attempt in three hours.

Interestingly I have a new piece to the puzzle this morning. I saw an error message that said my system wasn't active and to contact TiVo to activate it or to make another connection attempt if it had been activated. However, when I look at the system information it correctly lists that I have product lifetime service. The TiVo service level just has "A:-" after it. I don't remember what this used to say, but I don't think this is typical. Maybe this has something to do with it? Unfortunately this new state is preventing me from changing the tuner. Every time I hit "live TV" the error message pops up instead.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

jeffsinsfo said:


> In fact it did a "call home" at 6:22 that was supposedly successful yet it still rebooted. When I checked, it indicated it was going to make another attempt at 6:52 pm. Why would it try again after a half hour when the last effort was successful?


I believe it will make a service connection after rebooting.

Scott


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

HerronScott said:


> I believe it will make a service connection after rebooting.
> Scott


It will, but usually within 30 minutes. A failure will cause about a 2 hour delay. Then there is that TE3 schedule, which is impossible to alter. If a normal service connection was going to happen around the poster's "three hour" mark, it's just the TiVo falling into its routine.

I wish it was possible to force a connection on TE4, but it's the price we pay for three connections every day.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

JoeKustra said:


> It will, but usually within 30 minutes.


That sounds like it matches what he saw with a call at 6:22, a reboot and then a call scheduled at 6:52. 

Scott


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## jeffsinsfo (Oct 16, 2005)

The oddness continues. I decided to drag a long ethernet cable to the TiVo and used that connection. The Roamio made a successful connection and indicated it would next connect the following day, which is what I'm used to seeing following a successful connection. I was still concerned the problem wasn't resolved since I also saw this after successful wireless connections and the Roamio would reboot after attempting another connection within a few hours.

I removed the ethernet connection (the TV and router are not close to each other and I don't want a 20 foot cable stretched across my living room) and went back to WiFi. When I manually enter my network information, it won't connect. Not only that, but when I look at the Connect using WiFi screen there are absolutely no WiFi networks found. I live in a large condo complex and there are a lot of WiFi networks near me that the TiVo should be seeing even though I wouldn't be able to connect to them without knowing their passwords.

So does this mean the wireless card in my TiVo died? Could this have been a slow death -- working intermittently over the past two weeks and now just completely dead? I did have a power outage 10 days ago; while the TiVo is connected to a surge protector/power center I suppose it's possible that could have damaged my Roamio, even though nothing else got fried. Or could it be related to me selecting a static IP address after I got the ethernet working (I had already spent a good amount of time doing the port forwarding on the new router and I didn't want to have to redo that).


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## brobin (Feb 14, 2014)

If it works well with an Ethernet connection then that might be the easiest way to eliminate the problem. And you don't have to leave a cord running through the living room to do that. You could use MOCA adapter (built into the Roamio Plus & Pro) or use a Powerline Ethernet Adapter Kit (many available on Amazon). It consists of two units with Ethernet jacks that plug into an electrical outlet near the router and the Roamio with an Ethernet cable running from the router to one and from the Roamio to the other. It turns your powerline into an Ethernet network.


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## jeffsinsfo (Oct 16, 2005)

brobin said:


> If it works well with an Ethernet connection then that might be the easiest way to eliminate the problem. And you don't have to leave a cord running through the living room to do that. You could use MOCA adapter (built into the Roamio Plus & Pro) or use a Powerline Ethernet Adapter Kit (many available on Amazon). It consists of two units with Ethernet jacks that plug into an electrical outlet near the router and the Roamio with an Ethernet cable running from the router to one and from the Roamio to the other. It turns your powerline into an Ethernet network.


Thanks for your reply. I have reached the same conclusion. Fortunately I already had an ethernet jack that plugs into an electric outlet that I bought to connect an A/V receiver to set up its room correction software, so I moved that to the Roamio. The Roamio has been hooked up this way for 9 hours without rebooting, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this resolved the problem. I also put some effort into turning my old router into a repeater (I figured that maybe it would be nice to hard wire more equipment in my living room), but got stuck and am not sure I want to invest time in figuring that out given that it would be a "nice to have" thing that isn't really essential.


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## brobin (Feb 14, 2014)

A simple & cheap option would be to plug a switch into the Ethernet jack. You can buy a 5 port gigabit switch for about $15 or an 8 port Netgear one for as low as $17 on Amazon. Nothing to configure - just plug it in and done.


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## JKR123 (Feb 11, 2019)

I am currently having this reboot issue with my Roamio Pro around a daily basis now. I haven’t been able to pinpoint a specific cause of the reboot. It happens at various times of the day. I know that it is coming when my remote suddenly becomes slow or unresponsive. It also happens at times when I am not actively in front of the box as many of my recordings are broken into 2 parts. 

I also had the odd message the other day stating that I only had one day’s worth of guide info but my to-do list was properly populated out several days so that didn’t make any sense. 

I have had this box less than a year and it is running TE4. I am using an Ethernet connection, but the box will also connect wirelessly if the Ethernet is down or unplugged.


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## DeltaOne (Sep 29, 2013)

JKR123 said:


> I am currently having this reboot issue with my Roamio Pro around a daily basis now. I haven't been able to pinpoint a specific cause of the reboot. It happens at various times of the day. I know that it is coming when my remote suddenly becomes slow or unresponsive. It also happens at times when I am not actively in front of the box as many of my recordings are broken into 2 parts.


About 18 months ago my Roamio, from 2013 with its original hard drive, began rebooting once or twice a day. I removed the hard drive, connected it to my computer and ran SpinRite on it. SpinRite helps the drive recognize and relocate bad sectors. I haven't had one reboot since.

My *guess* is that when your remote becomes slow or unresponsive it is because the TiVo is having trouble reading the hard drive.

If I were in your shoes I'd be tempted to try another hard drive.

I'm not one for archiving or copying shows off the TiVo...so it would mean starting over. You probably know this, but swapping the hard drive is pretty easy and the TiVo, upon starting up, will format the hard drive and guide you right through the set up process. Just be sure to use an appropriate 1, 2 or 3 GB hard drive.


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## JKR123 (Feb 11, 2019)

DeltaOne said:


> About 18 months ago my Roamio, from 2013 with its original hard drive, began rebooting once or twice a day. I removed the hard drive, connected it to my computer and ran SpinRite on it. SpinRite helps the drive recognize and relocate bad sectors. I haven't had one reboot since.
> 
> My *guess* is that when your remote becomes slow or unresponsive it is because the TiVo is having trouble reading the hard drive.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. I was wondering if it might be an issue with the hard drive. My drive is getting fairly full. I am wondering if I try and delete a lot of recordings to get the % utilization down if that might help things. (If I do have to start over with a new drive or refurbished unit I think I will definitely set it up on TE3 first. I rarely have any issues with my older unit running TE3.)


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## TishTash (Jan 24, 2008)

JKR123 said:


> Thanks for the info. I was wondering if it might be an issue with the hard drive. My drive is getting fairly full. I am wondering if I try and delete a lot of recordings to get the % utilization down if that might help things. (If I do have to start over with a new drive or refurbished unit I think I will definitely set it up on TE3 first. I rarely have any issues with my older unit running TE3.)


Most of these issues have involved high-capacity third-party drives that are approaching capacity.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

JKR123 said:


> Thanks for the info. I was wondering if it might be an issue with the hard drive. My drive is getting fairly full. I am wondering if I try and delete a lot of recordings to get the % utilization down if that might help things. (If I do have to start over with a new drive or refurbished unit I think I will definitely set it up on TE3 first. I rarely have any issues with my older unit running TE3.)


Note that deleting programs in My Shows does not free up space. You need to delete programs in the Deleted Recordings folder.


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## brobin (Feb 14, 2014)

JKR123 said:


> I am currently having this reboot issue with my Roamio Pro around a daily basis now. I haven't been able to pinpoint a specific cause of the reboot. It happens at various times of the day. I know that it is coming when my remote suddenly becomes slow or unresponsive. It also happens at times when I am not actively in front of the box as many of my recordings are broken into 2 parts.
> 
> I also had the odd message the other day stating that I only had one day's worth of guide info but my to-do list was properly populated out several days so that didn't make any sense.
> 
> I have had this box less than a year and it is running TE4. I am using an Ethernet connection, but the box will also connect wirelessly if the Ethernet is down or unplugged.


It's probably not your hard drive because *I had the exact same thing happen a few nights ago with the same message about one day's worth of info *which was bogus as was yours. I've also noticed that when pressing play it takes up to 10 seconds for the show to start. And last night when I hit the skip button it froze and rebooted - _twice. _Someone should teach the folks at TIVO about the old adage "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." It seems that a new version, chock full of debilitating "improvements" is being sent almost every day. The auto skip feature is the only reason I went to TE4 and I'm seriously thinking of going back to TE3. Not sure whether to call that an upgrade or a downgrade.


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## JKR123 (Feb 11, 2019)

brobin said:


> It's probably not your hard drive because *I had the exact same thing happen a few nights ago with the same message about one day's worth of info *which was bogus as was yours. I've also noticed that when pressing play it takes up to 10 seconds for the show to start. And last night when I hit the skip button it froze and rebooted - _twice. _Someone should teach the folks at TIVO about the old adage "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." It seems that a new version, chock full of debilitating "improvements" is being sent almost every day. The auto skip feature is the only reason I went to TE4 and I'm seriously thinking of going back to TE3. Not sure whether to call that an upgrade or a downgrade.


I totally agree. At this point I would actually call going back to TE3 an upgrade. I've had nothing but weird issues and quirks happen to my boxes running TE4. I actually feel as though a lot of the issues came after their ad and guide changes but that may just be a coincidence. Some issues I have reported to TiVo support and others I have just learned to live with. I just wish they would do a better job with their QA testing before rolling out software updates.


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## jeffsinsfo (Oct 16, 2005)

Unfortunately I woke up this morning to a rebooting Roamio, meaning it made it through one day without a spontaneous reboot. I tried forcing a connection and it failed at the point of loading the data (it indicated it completed the "call"). It then indicated it would try again in another half hour. 

Since my kickstart 58 earlier this week didn't seem to be doing anything (unless a message saying "installing an update...this will take a few minutes" displaying for several hours is doing something), I pulled the plug on that and it rebooted normally. Right now I am running a kickstart 54. At least I can tell this one is doing something although it sure is slow. It "passed" the first few tests relatively quickly but gave me an estimated time of 735 minutes to run the Extended Test. So far it's been running for 592 minutes and it's 80% done. 

It's interesting that some others who have Roamio Pros are struggling with daily (or more frequent) reboots lately. I am still running TE3, though, so I cannot blame my problems on Hydra/TE4.

i have thought about calling TiVo but I'm afraid that will be just a waste of time. Other than when I've called to buy equipment or activate a device I have never had a good experience when calling TiVo or, for that matter, when submitting an issue via the web. (For my amusement I just looked at my support history on the website and not a single issue of mine was ever addressed by them; some issues still say they are waiting my response which isn't true as it's obvious the last communication was from me to them, and others were just closed without any response from TiVo.)


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## JKR123 (Feb 11, 2019)

Mine just rebooted a few minutes ago again. And of course I was in the middle of taping two shows. Maybe I had it trying to do too many things at once. I was taping some shows on it, viewing a movie from it via another TiVo in another room, and I was copying a movie from it to a third Tivo box. (Should I find a TiVo anonymous support group about my Tivo addiction? Ha ha) 

I haven’t gotten a chance to clean up my hard drive yet to know if that is causing my issues but like the previous poster stated, it is curious that several of us with Roamio Pros have begun experiencing these frequent reboots. I am reluctant to call TiVo support as well. The last few times I tried to report an issue they went through what seemed to be generic scripts like do service connections, reboot, repeat, run guided setups, etc. and then when the issue wasn’t resolved they said I could swap out the machine for another one rather than turn it over to the next level support team. Since I didn’t want to lose my recordings I never went with the swap option. However, if there is a widespread issue affecting a lot of people, if we don’t report it then they will not be aware of it. It is hard to know what to do.


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## jeffsinsfo (Oct 16, 2005)

I abandoned the kickstart 54 after it reached 20 minutes beyond the estimated total time for the Extended Test and had been displaying 90% for far longer than was sensible given the time it took to complete the first 90%. The initial tests all said "pass." I forced a connection after a reboot and it connected and loaded data after my second attempt. About a minute after it finished loading the data, it spontaneously rebooted again. I don't know if it had attempted another connection because I wasn't looking at that screen, but as soon as it finished rebooting I disconnected the ethernet cable. I am guessing that if it has no way to attempt to connect to TiVo's servers then it won't make an attempt and maybe it will keep working until I plug the ethernet cable back in and it connects again. This is just a theory at this point, though, and time will tell if it keeps working for longer than a day without being connected to the internet.


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## TishTash (Jan 24, 2008)

It’s a crap shoot. Once, it involved the SkIp function. Having TiVo turn it off resolved the issue (for a while).


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## jeffsinsfo (Oct 16, 2005)

I've been poking around on this site this evening and ran across a few posts mentioning how Western Digital changed their Red drives from CMR to SMR without disclosing it to consumers. Apparently the SMR technology is prone to early failure when used in environments with constant read/writes (such as a TiVo). Lo and behold it looks like the Red drive i bought last winter to do my upgrade is one of the affected drives. Could it be possible that I'm not having problems playing recordings and making new recordings but the daily loading of program data is triggering these reboots due to a problem with the hard drive? Do those daily updates always access the same area of the hard drive?


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## Sarcasmic (Sep 2, 2020)

Chiming in...

My tivo roamio plus has rebooted 5 times in the last 2ish hours... I have not modified the unit (hard drive) and I've noticed it happens when making the network connection and downloading new info. I also got the 1 day of programming info message once. It is ethernet connected and on software version 21.9.7v10-848-6-848. This just started today.

I do run an ad blocker on my network so I don't get the preroll ads and I have disabled it and tried again but it still reboots on downloading.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

It's probably trying to download the new update, 21.10,1.v8 which is not that large. I would power cycle the box and perform a manual connection. It will perform a service connection within thirty minutes after a restart. Maybe you can beat the automatic update.


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## Sarcasmic (Sep 2, 2020)

JoeKustra said:


> It's probably trying to download the new update, 21.10,1.v8 which is not that large. I would power cycle the box and perform a manual connection. It will perform a service connection within thirty minutes after a restart. Maybe you can beat the automatic update.


So I just did a manual reboot instead of just letting it reboot itself while downloading and this time it updated and shows software version 21.10.1v8. We'll see how things go.


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## brobin (Feb 14, 2014)

BTW, you can call Tivo and ask them to turn off the preroll ads and they'll be gone w/in 72 hours.


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## TishTash (Jan 24, 2008)

brobin said:


> BTW, you can call Tivo and ask them to turn off the preroll ads and they'll be gone w/in 72 hours.


Only if you stick to your guns. The overseas CSRs may be ignorant, but they're also obstinate as well: They've obviously been instructed to play hard-to-give-in when it comes to pre-roll ads.

That said, what does seem to work is what's happening here: If you insist that the ads are causing your TiVo unit to reboot, they usually throw in the towel. If that does stop it, it's a win-win!


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## Sarcasmic (Sep 2, 2020)

brobin said:


> BTW, you can call Tivo and ask them to turn off the preroll ads and they'll be gone w/in 72 hours.


I did, they fought back hard but eventually "gave in." They never actually turned them off but told me they had. After a few weeks I looked up how to do it myself and haven't had 1 since.


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## Sarcasmic (Sep 2, 2020)

So my Roamio hasn't rebooted itself yet and we're around 12 hours later, woohoo!


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## dglion (Dec 9, 2012)

I have a Roamio Pro running software version 21.19.7.v10-840-6-840 and am having the same problem, short freezes then reboot. I called Support and told “Zack” the problem. He put me on hold for a few minutes, then came back and said he was having trouble accessing the system and would call me right back. That was 2 hours ago, not holding my breath on that call back. I have disabled the Skip function but it’s still rebooting.

I have a Roamio basic running side by side with the Pro, no problem with it. Both have hardwire connections to the router. I hope they push a fix soon.


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## brobin (Feb 14, 2014)

How do you turn off pre rolls by yourself? When I asked they didn't quibble but I'd rath


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## Sarcasmic (Sep 2, 2020)

brobin said:


> How do you turn off pre rolls by yourself? When I asked they didn't quibble but I'd rath


With an ad blocker... I got the info from these very forums.


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## jeffsinsfo (Oct 16, 2005)

My recent attempts to trouble shoot the endless reboots:

For the past week, I kept my Roamio disconnected from my network except for two times when I connected it to force guide updates. Each time it was reconnected, I would have to force a connection more than once before I would finally get one that would progress to actually loading the data versus hanging and then rebooting at the "preparing to load data" (or sometimes even "connecting") step, and I learned that I had to pull out the ethernet cable as soon as it started to load data or the TiVo would attempt another connection while it was loading and then I'd be back to square one.

This morning I pulled the 6TB WD Red drive I had copied/expanded from the original 3TB Roamio drive late last year. I put the original 3TB back in, reconnected everything, and forced a connection. It worked properly the first time. I forced a second connection which completed successfully as well, though there was no need data to load. No reboots yet and it's been powered up and connected to my network for the past hour.

Some odd things I noticed:

1. Before forcing a connection with the original drive installed, it said my last successful connection was 5/20/20. This drive has not been in my Roamio since early December 2019, though, and the replacement drive had been successfully connecting post-May 20, 2020. I have no idea why or where that May date came from but given that the OS resides in memory on the Roamio, not on the hard drive, I assume this date was recorded somewhere in the OS. 

2. When forcing a connection with the replacement drive installed, I would notice that blue progress circle would occasionally pause/hang. Sometimes it would resume moving after a few seconds and other times a reboot would happen. With the original drive reinstalled, I do not see any pauses/hanging in the blue progress circle when forcing a connection.

At this point, I am leaning towards thinking that the WD drive I used for the upgrade is the cause of my reboots. I bought the WD Red drive based on recommendations on this forum, but I think this was before it was widely known that WD had started using SMR technology in that line even though they were marketing them as suitable for NAS. I suspect this early hard drive failure is due to the unsuitability of this technology in an application like a TiVo. Or maybe I just messed something up during the expansion and the problem didn't show up for several months. I'm far from an expert on any of this stuff -- what I know I have learned by reading other posts in this forum or elsewhere on the internet. 

I have purchased a CMR drive and will attempt another copy/expansion and see where that leads me. Unfortunately there are many recordings from the past several months that are on the 6TB drive that I would like to keep, so I am going to be attempting the clone/upgrade based on that drive. 

I don't know whether any of the above will apply to others experiencing these frequent reboots, but if you put a different hard drive in your TiVo (even if you just used one of a small enough capacity that the Roamio could format it itself) you might want to see if the model number of your drive uses SMR or CMR technology.


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## jeffsinsfo (Oct 16, 2005)

Thought I'd give an update:

The Roamio successfully stayed on for over 24 hours with the original hard drive in it. No reboots following my forced connection.

I cloned the upgraded hard drive to another one during those 24 hours. Things were looking good initially when I put the new hard drive in the TiVo. I forced a connection and it completed. I watched it during the process and at no point did I see that blue circle animation pause or hang. I watched a few seconds of a few different shows and they both played. Unfortunately, I went to play a third show and after a couple of minutes the video froze for a few seconds, then resumed for a few seconds, and then the box rebooted. So at this point I am still trouble shooting. I am attempting to run a kickstart 58 on the new hard drive since I could never get it to complete successfully on the other upgraded drive; maybe that will make a difference. But at this point a simple replacement of an upgraded hard drive is not making a difference (though it didn't reboot during the connection and data loading process like the other hard drive consistently did).

So at this point all I know is that everything is working fine with the original hard drive but my Roamio is experiencing reboots when either of my replacement hard drives is inserted.


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## jeffsinsfo (Oct 16, 2005)

Update: I was able to leave the Roamio with the replacement hard drive connected to the internet for several hours yesterday without a reboot, so fortunately I was able to transfer a lot of shows. Unfortunately I not only had a reboot while it was still connected to the internet but I had a second one after it had been unplugged for over an hour.

This morning I decided that since the new hard drive is 2TB larger and I'm not likely to mess up things more than they already are, I put that drive back in my computer to expand it to its full capacity using mfsadd/mfsaddfix.  After that I put it in the TiVo and as soon as it booted up, it rebooted. I then decided to do a Kickstart 58. Just like before, it didn't complete this routine -- it just sat on "installing an update" for over three hours. I pulled the plug and restarted. That was 15 hours ago and it's been connected to the internet all day without rebooting. I've managed to pull more shows off the hard drive and so I not only deleted those from the Roamio but I also decided to just delete some things that are on TV frequently enough that it's difficult to justify saving several seasons of shows. All in all I probably deleted about 400 shows. I don't know whether the lack of rebooting will hold and, if it does, whether it's due to me pruning the shows, me having a lower percentage of the hard drive full (now under 50% versus 68%), or whether it just took the new hard drive a while to "garbage collect" bad data cloned from the other hard drive. At any rate, I'm cautiously optimistic at this point since this is the longest my Roamio has gone without rebooting (without the original hard drive in it) for the past two weeks.


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## jeffsinsfo (Oct 16, 2005)

Another update: I'm still in the same position with respect to reboots. If I leave the ethernet cable unplugged and wifi off, my Roamio doesn't reboot. When connected to the internet it may reboot almost immediately or it may work for several hours before rebooting. Sometimes I am able to force a connection and then unplug the ethernet cable as soon as it gets to the loading step (it will reboot before loading the newly downloaded data if I keep it plugged in while it loads data) and it will load the data and then stay on. Sometimes it won't even get to the loading data step before it reboots.

So at this point I still have a barely functioning Roamio where I just connect it to the internet once every 5 days or so and then force connections until I get one to work.

This morning I hooked up an external power supply for the hard drive and that made no difference.


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## Peter Creath (Feb 16, 2000)

jeffsinsfo said:


> This morning I hooked up an external power supply for the hard drive and that made no difference.


I'm in a slightly different boat. My Roamio (4-tuner) was rebooting, so I figured the drive was failing. (It was clicking on boot.)

But I was able to ddrescue the entire drive without errors onto its replacement...that was my first clue.

Then, so that I could compare its performance to its replacement, I put it back in the TiVo, and heard multiple attempts to spin up, with lots of clicking.

So then I installed its replacement...and it had trouble spinning up too!

But, thanks to your tip, I tried hooking the original drive up to an external power supply, and voila -- it works!

I tested the voltage from the power adapter, and it's supplying 12.04V, and I checked the rails coming off of the motherboard, which are supplying 5.1V and 11.87V.

All those voltages seem close enough that I'm guessing the power adapter is failing and not able to supply enough juice for the 1.8A startup of the hard drive any more.

Does anybody know where I can buy a replacement power adapter? (They're out of stock at tivo.com.)


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

https://www.amazon.com/Power-Supply...2011&sprefix=tivo+power+supply,aps,153&sr=8-1

Probably better with eBay.


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## Peter Creath (Feb 16, 2000)

Yes, Amazon's search is full of no-brand non-UL-listed junk. Even knowing a reputable brand to look for, I couldn't find it there without its part number. I'm going to try this one:

https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Replacement-12V-Power-Adapter/dp/B01N5HCQNS

But eBay looks good for pre-owned genuine TiVo adapters, thank you for the pointer.


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## brobin (Feb 14, 2014)

$13, 3 amps (gives you more headroom), UL listed and you'll have it tomorrow. amzn.to/34mMa1W


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## JMURiz (Oct 28, 2020)

brobin said:


> $13, 3 amps (gives you more headroom), UL listed and you'll have it tomorrow. amzn.to/34mMa1W


I see that unit states it fits loosely in the box, what did you find? You never know with online reviews. I did try one on my old box and it was so loose I sent it back.


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## Disinterested (Jun 20, 2017)

jeffsinsfo said:


> Another update: I'm still in the same position with respect to reboots. If I leave the ethernet cable unplugged and wifi off, my Roamio doesn't reboot. When connected to the internet it may reboot almost immediately or it may work for several hours before rebooting. Sometimes I am able to force a connection and then unplug the ethernet cable as soon as it gets to the loading step (it will reboot before loading the newly downloaded data if I keep it plugged in while it loads data) and it will load the data and then stay on. Sometimes it won't even get to the loading data step before it reboots.
> 
> So at this point I still have a barely functioning Roamio where I just connect it to the internet once every 5 days or so and then force connections until I get one to work.
> 
> This morning I hooked up an external power supply for the hard drive and that made no difference.


Hi, Were you able to resolve the reboot issue?

Thank you


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## jeffsinsfo (Oct 16, 2005)

Disinterested said:


> Hi, Were you able to resolve the reboot issue?
> 
> Thank you


No, I gave up. My Roamio sits unplugged. I've been using my Premiere XL4 instead. It's noticeably slower (why I upgraded to the Roamio in the first place), but at least it works.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

jeffsinsfo said:


> No, I gave up. My Roamio sits unplugged. I've been using my Premiere XL4 instead. It's noticeably slower (why I upgraded to the Roamio in the first place), but at least it works.


I would start fresh with the Roamio, either format the drive or get a new drive. I'd stick with 4TB or less (3TB great as the Roamio will format itself even if TE3). I have had multiple reboot when connected to internet issues with large Roamio large drive upgrades, and have been unable to solve. It is POSSIBLE calling Tivo and having them turn off the "skip" function may work but I have not tried that (as I don't trust Tivo CS and am afraid they'd do my whole acct and might never be able to get it back)

Try the drive, new or format your current drive (in computer). Don't do any copies/clones/expands. Make sure it is a CMR (not SMR) drive. When you put it back in the Roamio should format to whatever OS was/is on the Roamio (as long as 3TB or less). Also since a Roamio you can keep the "problem" drive as a backup, maybe someone can figure out what is going on someday, I have not been able. Do a clear and delete everything also to be safe, "marry" the drive to the Roamio, new drive or formatted original, the Roamio will still see it as a "new" drive.


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## jeffsinsfo (Oct 16, 2005)

tommage1 said:


> I would start fresh with the Roamio, either format the drive or get a new drive. I'd stick with 4TB or less (3TB great as the Roamio will format itself even if TE3). I have had multiple reboot when connected to internet issues with large Roamio large drive upgrades, and have been unable to solve. It is POSSIBLE calling Tivo and having them turn off the "skip" function may work but I have not tried that (as I don't trust Tivo CS and am afraid they'd do my whole acct and might never be able to get it back)
> 
> Try the drive, new or format your current drive (in computer). Don't do any copies/clones/expands. Make sure it is a CMR (not SMR) drive. When you put it back in the Roamio should format to whatever OS was/is on the Roamio (as long as 3TB or less). Also since a Roamio you can keep the "problem" drive as a backup, maybe someone can figure out what is going on someday, I have not been able. Do a clear and delete everything also to be safe, "marry" the drive to the Roamio, new drive or formatted original, the Roamio will still see it as a "new" drive.


Thanks for the advice. If I wanted to use my Roamio with its original drive, it still works fine with no reboots. It's just that I want a higher capacity and don't really want to start a copy/expand again for the Roamio lest the same thing happen again. The larger hard drive I prepared for my Premiere is still working (knock on wood), so I'm just dealing with the sluggish response to remote control commands.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Is SkipMode still enabled for Premiere models?


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## jeffsinsfo (Oct 16, 2005)

krkaufman said:


> Is SkipMode still enabled for Premiere models?


Yes.


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## EDISFM2 (9 mo ago)

New Tivo Edge + Xfinity Modem/Wireless + Extenders was dropping multiple times a day, especially overnight. 21 devices on network, some neighbors on same frequency, however, my signal was solid with 1G download speed.
It was a legacy 2.4G device = old Apple Time Capsule at night was not releasing which interfered with the Xfinity Extender Mesh network.
Once the time capsule was removed from the network - I have been solid for a couple of days now.
This also allowed my Ring 2.0 Door Camera to function on the network.


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