# Lost 4/13/10 "Everybody Loves Hugo"



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Well, looks like the "dead people in the otherverse know stuff" theory is getting a boost!


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

Well, we kinda got a reveal about what the whispers are. Limbo?

Don't understand the point of Des mowing down Locke.

And I'm beginning to wonder - which universe is "real" after all? Perhaps the flash sideways isn't the fake one?

Did I hear the Willy Wonka song from the boat ride on the chocolate river in the preview for next week? WTF?


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## brermike (Jun 1, 2006)

TiVotion said:


> Well, we kinda got a reveal about what the whispers are. Limbo?
> 
> Don't understand the point of Des mowing down Locke.
> 
> ...


I think Desmond hit Locke because he knew he push him down the well on the Island. I'm curious though if he knows that the man on the Island is the Man in Black, but lied to him about being John Locke.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TiVotion said:


> And I'm beginning to wonder - which universe is "real" after all? Perhaps the flash sideways isn't the fake one?


I don't think either is fake...just that the sideways one is the result of the universe breaking (when the bomb went off and suddenly things that happened didn't happen), and needs to be fixed.


brermike said:


> I think Desmond hit Locke because he knew he push him down the well on the Island. I'm curious though if he knows that the man on the Island is the Man in Black, but lied to him about being John Locke.


I think Desmond is getting the Candidates in the otherverse to remember who they are. And I think his killing Locke has to do with the fact that unLocke isn't Locke (in the islandverse). It will be interesting to see if Locke's death has any affect on unLocke.


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## jami (Dec 18, 2003)

TiVotion said:


> Did I hear the Willy Wonka song from the boat ride on the chocolate river in the preview for next week? WTF?


Yes.


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## Carlucci (Jan 10, 2001)

I think Desmond was just trying to give Locke a near-death experience to try to trigger a memory. Recall that Charlie needed the choking incident and Desmond needed the near-drowning in the car. For others, like Hurley and Daniel, the trigger is love.

Did anyone else notice the prominence of the cricket chirping when Flocke and Desmond were hanging around the well? To me it sounded like morse code. I wonder if anyone can isolate it and decipher it.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

TiVotion said:


> And I'm beginning to wonder - which universe is "real" after all? Perhaps the flash sideways isn't the fake one?


If that ends up being the case, I called it last week!



> Maybe what we think is the fake reality (where everyone is actually in LA), is really the real reality and all the island stuff is the fake reality.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Great episode! Too tired to comment. Loved the music in the preview.

Illana go BOOM!!!


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Great episode! 

I loved Ilana doing an "arzt"! 

I didn't realize Locke died when Desmond hit him. I was thinking it was a way to get him to the hospital to meet up with Jack again.

And ironic isn't it? that creepy Ben was worried about Desmond being a pedophile.....


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## T-Wolves (Aug 22, 2000)

TiVotion said:


> ...Don't understand the point of Des mowing down Locke. ...


Maybe Desmond is aware of both realities/universes in real-time, now? If John Locke is going to throw him down a well in one universe, Desmond will get his revenge in the other?

I should've known they would kill off Ilana! * ARGH!* I really thought she was going to be integral to the end-game, and would be Jack's love interest. And did she really deserve a Doc Arzt-type death? I thought the character (and actress) deserved much better than that. *ARGH!! *

I suppose that if you are not a candidate, your days might be numbered. Watch out Miles! Lapidus is probably still around because the Ajira plane plays some part in the endgame.


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## pcguru83 (Jan 18, 2005)

It occurred to me just how strikingly similar what Desmond is doing is to what Jacob did in the "real" timeline. Jacob methodically went around visiting the Oceanic 815 passengers prior to their convergence on the Island. Desmond now seems to be doing the same in the "sideways" timeline thanks to the flight manifest he's obtained. 

This may have been obvious to some after last week, but it really clicked tonight.


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## robbhimself (Sep 13, 2006)

i bet when locke opened his eyes and saw ben standing over him, he remembered ben killing him.. that should be interesting to see how that would play out


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## brermike (Jun 1, 2006)

pcguru83 said:


> It occurred to me just how strikingly similar what Desmond is doing is to what Jacob did in the "real" timeline. Jacob methodically went around visiting the Oceanic 815 passengers prior to their convergence on the Island. Desmond now seems to be doing the same in the "sideways" timeline thanks to the flight manifest he's obtained.
> 
> This may have been obvious to some after last week, but it really clicked tonight.


Great point, very interesting!

By the way, loved the episode. I can't believe it's all going to be over soon, but you can feel the story reaching an epic conclusion. It's going to be quite an ending, I'm sure!!


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## unixadm (Jan 1, 2001)

robbhimself said:


> i bet when locke opened his eyes and saw ben standing over him, he remembered ben killing him.. that should be interesting to see how that would play out


Ohhhh....I didn't think of that one.....yeah, that will be interesting....

LOVED that Hugo got a rush of memories when Libby kissed him.....some good reveals tonight.....Hugo understanding that Michael and the dead people he sees are "stuck".....and that is why Libby never visited him post death...she probably isn't "stuck"

The Artz type of death for Ilana was unexpected...I had to rewind it again...thought maybe she had walked away before it exploded. But I never really liked her character to begin with but they seemed to be building her up as some kind of savior that Jacob had picked....then killed her off.....strange.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

unixadm said:


> The Artz type of death for Ilana was unexpected...I had to rewind it again...thought maybe she had walked away before it exploded. But I never really liked her character to begin with but they seemed to be building her up as some kind of savior that Jacob had picked....then killed her off.....strange.


Must be a drunk driver.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

As usual, someone gets blown to bits on LOST and everyone just stands around like it's no big deal.

Love this show.


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

betts4 said:


> I didn't realize Locke died when Desmond hit him. I was thinking it was a way to get him to the hospital to meet up with Jack again.


Same thing I was thinking.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

So I wonder what Desmond will be doing at the bottom of the well.

Where a certain wheel exists?


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## brermike (Jun 1, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> So I wonder what Desmond will be doing at the bottom of the well.
> 
> Where a certain wheel exists?


It was a different well, so I'm not sure if there is a wheel down there or not. The wheel well was filled-in the last time we saw it in modern times.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Is this the well that Locke and Jack and Kate climbed down that led to the hatch?


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## Queue (Apr 7, 2009)

I'm curious if Locke in the alternate timeline isn't Smokey masquerading as Locke to watch over that timeline or whatever.

Locke is the only dead person we got a flash sideways on. If the sideways was what the remaining people each wanted, then why does it matter what Locke wanted if he's dead.

Very surprised Ilana was killed off. As someone else said, they were building her up to something then it just went away.

I can't remember, have we seen Desmond called out as a candidate before? He saw the boy in the jungle and previously the only other person to see one was Sawyer who's a candidate.

And is flash sideways-Locke dead?


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## Queue (Apr 7, 2009)

betts4 said:


> Is this the well that Locke and Jack and Kate climbed down that led to the hatch?


No, I believe it's the well that Locke went down to move the island.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

So I also wonder if Desmond hit Locke as a trigger to make his memories of being thrown out the window by his dad come back.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

I knew Ilana was going to go kaboom as soon as she walked away from the group. Even before she did that I was saying, "Richard should carry the dynamite."

My favorite line/phrase of the night: "The Human Fund." My husband and I just looked at each other and grinned.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

brermike said:


> It was a different well, so I'm not sure if there is a wheel down there or not. The wheel well was filled-in the last time we saw it in modern times.


No, it was filled in in ancient times. When they were time-hopping, they went back to a time before the well was dug. But in the present, it would still be there.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

brermike said:


> Did I hear the Willy Wonka song from the boat ride on the chocolate river in the preview for next week? WTF?


Thank you! That was driving me nuts (no offense, Libby).


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## brermike (Jun 1, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> No, it was filled in in ancient times. When they were time-hopping, they went back to a time before the well was dug. But in the present, it would still be there.


No, what I mean is, in 1974 when Sawyer and Juliet had their last time skip, the well was still there but it was filled in with rocks. So it would still be filled in with rocks in 2007. This well didn't have the wooden structure above it (with the rope) and wasn't filled to the top with rocks, so it must be a different well. Plus Flocke said there were other wells on the Island as a hint to this.

However, that's not to say there isn't something else special about this well.


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

TiVotion said:


> Well, we kinda got a reveal about what the whispers are. Limbo?
> 
> Don't understand the point of Des mowing down Locke.
> 
> ...


I wonder what the song signifies. IIRC in the movie, it's kind of a creepy psychedelic ride that goes from one end of the factory to the other? Is there any important reveals in that scene?


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## Shahzad (Sep 3, 2004)

mqpickles said:


> I knew Ilana was going to go kaboom as soon as she walked away from the group. Even before she did that I was saying, "Richard should carry the dynamite."
> 
> My favorite line/phrase of the night: "The Human Fund." My husband and I just looked at each other and grinned.


My favorite line had to be "fajita field trip".


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## T-Wolves (Aug 22, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> So I wonder what Desmond will be doing at the bottom of the well.
> Where a certain wheel exists?


Apparently,


Spoiler



just sitting there, according to the scenes for next week's show.





unixadm said:


> ...Hugo understanding that Michael and the dead people he sees are "stuck".....and that is why Libby never visited him post death...she probably isn't "stuck"...


So why is Michael stuck, but not Libby? Could it be because he's killed somebody? We know that Hurley has seen Charlie, Mr. Eko, Michael, Ana Lucia, and of course Jacob (others?). It has been established that all of those characters, with the possible exception of Jacob, have killed somebody. Maybe when you die on the Island, you are "stuck" if you've killed somebody?


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## Boston Fan (Feb 8, 2006)

T-Wolves said:


> So why is Michael stuck, but not Libby? Could it be because he's killed somebody? We know that Hurley has seen Charlie, Mr. Eko, Michael, Ana Lucia, and of course Jacob (others?). It has been established that all of those characters, with the possible exception of Jacob, have killed somebody. Maybe when you die on the Island, you are "stuck" if you've killed somebody?


Michael told Hurley: "Because of what I did," which I took to mean the killings.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

My recording cut off just as Desmond punched the gas on his car, and when I started my recording of "V," I just got the "LOST: The Final Season" thing. So whatever I missed was only a few seconds, but what exactly happened? Desmond ran Locke down and then when Locke opened his eyes, Ben was standing over him?


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I wonder who the kid is...the one smokey told Desmond to ignore. Jacob?


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

TiVotion said:


> Don't understand the point of Des mowing down Locke.





betts4 said:


> So I also wonder if Desmond hit Locke as a trigger to make his memories of being thrown out the window by his dad come back.


Interesting thought.

There's also a certain amount of symmetry at play here.
In the Island reality, Fake Locke tries to kill Desmond. In the Alternate Reality, Desmond tries to kill Real Locke.
Does Alternate Desmond need Real Locke dead to gather the other 815ers just like Real Locke did in the Island reality?



DancnDude said:


> I wonder who the kid is...the one smokey told Desmond to ignore. Jacob?


I did notice that he was older than the previous kid.
And Desmond saw him too.

And,
OH MY GOD!!! THEY KILLED ILANA!
YOU BASTARDS!


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

DevdogAZ, correct. Don't remember if it was after that or not that the Jacon losties walked into UnLocke's camp though, but that's all they did...


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

In the video about Hurley at the beginning of the episode, it made it sound like Hurley simply worked hard and bought Mr. Clucks because of his love of chicken. However, IIRC, in LA X, didn't Hurley say he won the lottery? Maybe the video honoring Hurley simply chose to omit that fact, or maybe when Hurley on the plane said he won the lottery, he was meaning metaphorically.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

mqpickles said:


> I knew Ilana was going to go kaboom as soon as she walked away from the group. Even before she did that I was saying, "Richard should carry the dynamite."


Yeah, I had those same thoughts too. I was mildly annoyed during that whole sequence. I would have liked a better death for Ilana.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

DancnDude said:


> I wonder who the kid is...the one smokey told Desmond to ignore. Jacob?





JYoung said:


> I did notice that he was older than the previous kid.
> And Desmond saw him too.


He definitely looked older, and less blond, but the face seemed the same to me, which made me wonder if the kid just hit some kind of ridiculous growth spurt. Or maybe it's the actor's older brother. Or maybe I don't actually remember what the kid looked like.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Kinda cool. The pictures are made from the words the characters have spoken throughout the series. The more times a character said a particular word, the bigger that word.

http://juanosborne.com/2010/02/18/jack-vs-locke/
http://juanosborne.com/2010/01/09/get-lost/

  

  

  

Followed the link from this blog (f**kyeahlost.com).


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Same kid, btw.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2778261/

Everybody Loves Hugo

  

  

The Substitute


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

T-Wolves said:


> Apparently,
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


You just made me realize something that maybe should have been more obvious. We've seen visions of people on the island. Jack's dad, Ben's mom, Hurley's friend Dave from the mental hospital (but was he ever real to begin with?), Michael, that dead guy who was building the cabin, Alex...and probably others I forgot. Hurley saw dead people both on and off the island (Charlie, Ana Lucia). Some of those may have been imagined, some not. But when Michael said he was trapped on the island because he killed someone, it made me wonder if maybe there's no difference between MiB and the other dead, trapped people on the island (with the exception of being able to change forms and morph into smoke). Maybe MiB is a former candidate who is trapped, but knows a way out? Charlie, Eko, Michael, Ana Lucia all killed someone. But did Jack's dad or any of the other visions we've seen kill anyone? I dunno. Maybe MIB started out like a regular trapped soul, but somehow the magnetic properties of the island gave him his special abilities.


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

Couple other random notices last night:

- Richard tells Hurley that "a while back, Jacob told me what the island was" and he wanted Hurley to ask Jacob what the island was. Of course, the characters don't discuss that fact between themselves, because we aren't allowed to know yet.

- Both Jack, Richard and Hurley should know how unstable the dynamite is. And Jack and Richard realized a while back that they can't be blown up or killed, apparently, because they apparently serve some higher calling. Based on that, everyone still lets Ilana handle the dynamite. Jack, Richard, or Hurley should have made more of an effort to stop her.

- Lapedus must still be around because the plane will serve a purpose soon.

- Sun still can't speak English. I wonder why this is necessary, if at all.

- Desmond isn't afraid of MiB-Locke because he definitely knows something (in terms of his fate...or at least he thinks he does). But does he really NOT know that Locke isn't really Locke...or is he bluffing MiB?

- Who in the world is this little boy who keeps showing up? He seems to be dressed in "Others" clothing...and why is MiB so rattled by him?

I have a feeling at the pace that is going that we're going to have the majority of the explanations withheld from us until the 2 hour season finale. That's ok, but I sure hope they have time to explain all the major plot devices in that time.

And I know that the trailers and promos are produced by ABC with perhaps little or no input from the producers, but I can't help but wonder if the Willy Wonka audio in last night's trailer is telegraphing what someone has already mentioned - we're in for some kind of wild, psychedelic ride...


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## BrandonRe (Jul 15, 2006)

TiVotion said:


> Couple other random notices last night:
> 
> - Richard tells Hurley that "a while back, Jacob told me what the island was" and he wanted Hurley to ask Jacob what the island was. Of course, the characters don't discuss that fact between themselves, because we aren't allowed to know yet.


We do know. In the Richard-centric episode we saw Jacob and Richard sitting on a beach and having this conversation. The island is


Spoiler



like the cork in a wine bottle. Except instead of holdingnon wine, it keeps evil at bay from the world.



So while I agree Richard would in reality be grilled for this information, we the viewers already know it.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

There's a hole in my heart
As deep as a well
For that poor little boy,
Who's stuck halfway to Hell... 

Though we can't get him out,
We'll do the next best thing... 

We go on TV
And sing, sing, sing! 

And we're sending our love down the well... 
(All the way down!)


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

T-Wolves said:


> Apparently,
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Maybe not relevant, but he saw Ana Lucia, Charlie, and Mr. Eko while he was off-island, while he saw Michael, Isabella, and Jacob on-island.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

jkeegan said:


> Maybe not relevant, but he saw Ana Lucia, Charlie, and Mr. Eko while he was off-island, while he saw Michael, Isabella, and Jacob on-island.


That's what I was trying to remember, who he saw and WHERE....and there was also his friend from the sanitarium. Dave? How did he die and as such, Hurley could see him.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Ok i just had a thought..

Last week I wasn't crazy about the fact that they showed us that when exposed to radiation, Desmond could not only travel forward/backward through time like we saw at the freighter, but also to another timeline. I came up with a theory of repeated time to reduce his ability back down to what we previously saw - he's just jumping forward and backward.

I've got another theory that accomplishes the same goal. What if we were misdirected in last werk's episode? It *felt* like once Desmond snapped back to the island, that he seemed to remember the sideways timeline. What if that wasn't what happened?

Maybe what we really saw were two unrelated things. In the sideways universe he started remembering - yeah - but so did lots of people (Daniel without his help!). So maybe that wasn't related to him being in the magnetic coils on the island.

Maybe, on the island, the coils made him do exactly what we've seen island proximity/radiation do to him before - it made him jump through time (the timeline he was in, right there on the island).

That would explain him being so calm and not afraid. It would explain him happily going with Sayid and Locke. He knows that he's doing something interesting at the bottom of that well, or after that, and he even seems amused by that fact.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Why is nobody in the thread spoilerizing the discussion of the preview for next week? While I don't personally mind open discussion about previews, I thought we were supposed to use spoiler tags? Anyhow, regarding it:



Spoiler



I loved the fact that they used the audio from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory to overlay the scenes for next week. We've long discussed that the previews are put together by ABC, not by TPTB, so it could mean absolutely nothing. On the other hand, there's a "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" LOST theory that I think just got a lot more traction. I don't remember the specifics of the theory and need to track it down again. But the comparisons between the two shows are of course evident - characters (each with flaws), captive at a fantastical place, being winnowed down one by one as the Main Guy searches amongst them for a suitable candidate to replace himself...

Ah, here's what I remember reading. Back after the airing of The Substitute, this guy made a case that it had so many parallels to Charlie and the Chocolate Factory that it could be used to extrapolate the ending of the series.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

I like how Lapidus was hiding behind a tree with his lit torch and no one could see him.


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

danterner said:


> Why is nobody in the thread spoilerizing the discussion of the preview for next week? While I don't personally mind open discussion about previews, I thought we were supposed to use spoiler tags? Anyhow, regarding it:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



And in that movie there was only one GOOD person. So if that holds true, then maybe the 'winner' will be Hurley. Everyone else has some critical flaw. Through out the show, Hurley's flaws seemed to be limited to his low self-esteem.


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

Fool Me Twice said:


> I like how Lapidus was hiding behind a tree with his lit torch and no one could see him.


If it works on Scooby-Doo then it works in Lost. Is that a new theory?


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Fool Me Twice said:


> I like how Lapidus was hiding behind a tree with his lit torch and no one could see him.


I noticed that too.

I cracked up when Illana got blowed up. I was thinking about how unstable the dynamite was supposed to be and BOOM!

Why did they even need dynamite anyway? They have guns. Just put a few bullets in the plane's control panel and shoot out the wheels or maybe shoot the gas tanks.


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## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

Carlucci said:


> *I think Desmond was just trying to give Locke a near-death experience to try to trigger a memory. Recall that Charlie needed the choking incident and Desmond needed the near-drowning in the car. For others, like Hurley and Daniel, the trigger is love.*
> 
> Did anyone else notice the prominence of the cricket chirping when Flocke and Desmond were hanging around the well? To me it sounded like morse code. I wonder if anyone can isolate it and decipher it.


This


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

But, how do you hit a guy with your car so as to only _almost_ kill him?


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## Carlucci (Jan 10, 2001)

Fool Me Twice said:


> But, how do you hit a guy with your car so as to only _almost_ kill him?


I guess the same way you run a car off a pier and into the ocean but manage to only _almost_ kill the driver.


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## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

There's a reason that well is there.. because it made compasses go crazy. 

How convenient that Desmond is now located directly over a pocket of electromagnetic energy. It seems pretty obvious to me Desmond is jumping between the alternate timeline and this one. 

Still, it seems like Unlocke would have known this now and wants Desmond to be jumping back and forth...

And I also got the Desmond/Jacob parallels. Last week, I mentioned how much Desmond (after the electromagnetism dose) seemed like Unlocke when he was "reborn" on the island. Maybe Desmond now knows what will happen to end the alt timeline (or merge them), hence his new Jacob role and his lack of fear.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Carlucci said:


> I guess the same way you run a car off a pier and into the ocean but manage to only _almost_ kill the driver.


Desmond didn't almost die, he just got wet and excited (twss). If that's all he wanted to do, he could have just barely missed him, or maybe just clipped Locke's chair with his car, but he didn't do that, he plowed right into him at high speed. He was trying to kill him. Either that or he had foreknowledge of what would happen if he hit him the way he did.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

T-Wolves said:


> Apparently,
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Then how does Richard's lost love fit in? Hurley saw her and talked to her.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

By the way, I went back to check. Here was the previous sequences with the original well (split over at least 2 episodes):

they walk to the Orchid station, and find it, in the same ruins that it was when Locke and Ben were there

Juliet says "what are the chances that we're in the right time for this to be here?" and boom - time flash. sawyer says "you HAD to say SOMETHING!"

Locke knows from Charlotte to walk around back, and finds a well. It has a rope and a pulley mounted above it. Miles says "how did Charlotte know this was here??" because he didn't know yet that she and he were there as kids

Locke goes in the well. He's hanging, there's a flash. Locke falls into a cave. Sawyer is holding the rope, which is going straight into the ground. There are no stones anywhere, just flat ground in the jungle (the well hasn't been dug yet). Juliette explains that this is before the well was dug, and Miles says something like "yeah I'd say it's earlier. MUCH earlier", then people look rinses what he's looking at and it's the tall complete statue (so that's before Richard ever arrived).

Locke in the cave fixes the wheel and it finishes turning, and he gets dumped in Tunesia. Miles/Sawyer/Juliette/etc all flash to 1970. Sawyer, lying on the ground, looks sideways and sees the rocks of a well, and runs and jumps into it to save Locke, but the center of that well is now filled with dirt (presumably Dharma filled in the well when they built the Orchid station).

So anyway, as was said, last night's well was a different well.

Probably the controls for the spaceship. 
(which is also a cork)


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I don't think Desmond was trying to kill wheelchair Locke. I think he was trying to reconcile him with the other candidates like he had just finished doing for Hurley and Libby. 

Locke will probably either remember something in near-death or start to remember something from seeing Ben. He'll certainly be sent to the hospital where he'll meet up with the rest of the scooby gang there. Jack might help him and he'll gain the ability to walk like he had in the timeline where the plane crashed.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Oh and I'd just like to point out that in the original timeline, Locke was hit by a car also (looked very similar if I recall), right outside of Toys R Us (where he told the kid about MouseTrap).

And one more thing.. Watching Desmond do what he's doing now, I can't help but think (again) that the Desmond that talked to Jack in the football stands was a Desmond with actual knowledge, not just friendly advice.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

betts4 said:


> That's what I was trying to remember, who he saw and WHERE....and there was also his friend from the sanitarium. Dave? How did he die and as such, Hurley could see him.





philw1776 said:


> Then how does Richard's lost love fit in? Hurley saw her and talked to her.


I think there is more to this Hurley than we know.



cheesesteak said:


> Why did they even need dynamite anyway? They have guns. Just put a few bullets in the plane's control panel and shoot out the wheels or maybe shoot the gas tanks.


They neeed the dynamite to blow Ilana up! Maybe Jacob told Richard to get it because he was done with her. Or as Ben said, the island was.

I wonder if anyone can show a screen shot of Locke at the very end after he got hit. Did he have the scar he got on the island? I mean, did he have it before he got hit or maybe did it show up as a result of his getting hit....or am I on drugs and it wasn't there at all.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

jkeegan said:


> Oh and I'd just like to point out that in the original timeline, Locke was hit by a car also (looked very similar if I recall), right outside of Toys R Us (where he told the kid about MouseTrap).
> 
> And one more thing.. Watching Desmond do what he's doing now, I can't help but think (again) that the Desmond that talked to Jack in the football stands was a Desmond with actual knowledge, not just friendly advice.


Both very good points! But if that latter is true, then how many other things did Desmond do in past seasons that were because of actual knowledge? He seemed to go thru much of his flashbacks feeling like he knew people - charlie on the street and eloise and such.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

jkeegan said:


> And one more thing.. Watching Desmond do what he's doing now, I can't help but think (again) that the Desmond that talked to Jack in the football stands was a Desmond with actual knowledge, not just friendly advice.


But, that was long before flight 815.


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

betts4 said:


> I wonder if anyone can show a screen shot of Locke at the very end after he got hit. Did he have the scar he got on the island?


Here's a screencap. I think that's a scar.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4028/4387837909_17b749850e.jpg


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

GDG76 said:


> *There's a reason that well is there.. because it made compasses go crazy.
> 
> How convenient that Desmond is now located directly over a pocket of electromagnetic energy. * It seems pretty obvious to me Desmond is jumping between the alternate timeline and this one.
> 
> ...


I think that the writers have successfully etablished this key point about Desmond and the well's EM anomalies. Des is a key agent interacting between the two universes and the post Widmore EM cage experiment He exhibits a calm awareness of his role in both worlds. It was only as Desmond started the car that I realized he wasn't going over to talk with LAXLocke.

Gotta admit that the Locke monster is one intimidating guy. His scene with Desmond at the well was great. Don't blame Hurley being very nervous walking up and talking to the smoke monsta.

Didn't like seeing another gun toting hottie blown to bits Artz style though it was well set up by the view of the rotted dynamite in the satchel. Agree that it seemed very DUH! to let her vs Richard or Jack carry the known unstable explosives.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DancnDude said:


> I don't think Desmond was trying to kill wheelchair Locke.


And Sun and Jai weren't having sex.


----------



## Scubee (Mar 2, 2005)

What did Hurley see in the greenish bag in the camp that made him suddenly change so much? Was that something that belonged to Ilana?


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Scubee said:


> What did Hurley see in the greenish bag in the camp that made him suddenly change so much? Was that something that belonged to Ilana?


My take was he saw Miles collection of Nikki's diamonds. If so, I have no clue why they showed this. Probably wrong.

EDIT: but the sequence was him searching Illana's stuff


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

philw1776 said:


> My take was he saw Miles collection of Nikki's diamonds. If so, I have no clue why they showed this. Probably wrong.
> 
> EDIT: but the sequence was him searching Illana's stuff


I thought the bag contained Jacob dust


----------



## Scubee (Mar 2, 2005)

Paperboy2003 said:


> I thought the bag contained Jacob dust


Ah, I remember that now. She gathered it up from the fire pit in the foot statue.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

glad to see them moving the story along - even though i'm not a fan of the story itself - it will be good to see this wrap up and end


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Paperboy2003 said:


> I thought the bag contained Jacob dust


You must be right and certainly that must be the same bag. Funny, though -- I thought I heard kind of a clinking sound, like marbles hitting each other, as Hurley picked up the bag.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

When they got dynamite from the Black Rock I wondered about when dynamite was invented. It was invented the same year as when the Black Rock shipwrecked, 1867! That's as old as dynamite could possibly be unless they got it from Alfred Nobel while he was experimenting.


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## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

danterner said:


> You must be right and certainly that must be the same bag. Funny, though -- I thought I heard kind of a clinking sound, like marbles hitting each other, as Hurley picked up the bag.


No, it was definitely Jacob's ashes.



vertigo235 said:


> As usual, someone gets blown to bits on LOST and everyone just stands around like it's no big deal.
> 
> Love this show.


I agree that its funny. They have been through so much death and bizarre situations that it probably doesn't even phase them any more. Probably the same way many soldiers are portrayed in movies to be numb to the death and destruction around them.

I also loved the scene as they approached the black rock and Hurley comes running out a la Han Solo in Return of the Jedi while on Endor. We know he is a Star Wars fan.

I also love how all these locations we have seen through the years are coming back and ending up important. Cool stuff.


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

jkeegan said:


> By the way, I went back to check. Here was the previous sequences with the original well (split over at least 2 episodes):
> 
> they walk to the Orchid station, and find it, in the same ruins that it was when Locke and Ben were there
> 
> ...


LOL Thank you for this! I hate smeeking so I read the thread up to this post thinking to myself, "IT'S NOT THE SAME WELL! THAT WELL IS UNDER THE ORCHID! THINK, PEOPLE, THINK!"

I don't know if the well Desmond was tossed in is anything more special than what Flocke explained. Flocke took Desmond there for the sole purpose of either trapping or killing him. When he threw the torch in I thought I heard water, so Desmond is obviously going to be fine, the question is, what does he do once he gets out. Is anyone else waiting badly for the Sun-Jin reunion? Jin has come a really long way from season one, and I hope they both make it off the island and back to their daughter.

I am in the camp that thinks Desmond ran over Locke in the alterno timeline to cause Locke a near death experience. I think it was just symmetry that they both attacked each other in the two different timelines.

I also think it would be great if Hurley ended up being THE candidate. So much about him is just right, although Jack's new outlook certainly makes him appealing as well. And kudos to Jack for not being an absolute bastard to Hurley when Hurley wanted everyone to follow him.

Agreed that the days are numbered for all non candidate players. Buh bye, guys, been nice knowing you. Interesting that Desmond in Alterno timeline told Ben that his son's name was Charlie. Why did he say that particular name? Another great episode. It's going to be fun to see what happens in the discussion coming between the two camps, and what BS Flocke is going to tell Hurley and Jack.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

danplaysbass said:


> I agree that its funny. They have been through so much death and bizarre situations that it probably doesn't even phase them any more. Probably the same way many soldiers are portrayed in movies to be numb to the death and destruction around them.


The other thing that made it funny to me...it happened very quickly, but I got the impression that in the middle of her hissy fit, she threw the bag with the dynamite down on the ground. 


Shaunnick said:


> I am in the camp that thinks Desmond ran over Locke in the alterno timeline to cause Locke a near death experience. I think it was just symmetry that they both attacked each other in the two different timelines.


I was joking before, but now I'm serious. We're in "Sun didn't have sex with Jai" territory here.

He aimed his car at Locke, floored the pedal, got a good head of steam going, and hit him full speed. If he wasn't trying to kill him, he's as delusional as the people who think he wasn't trying to kill him.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Shaunnick said:


> Interesting that Desmond in Alterno timeline told Ben that his son's name was Charlie. Why did he say that particular name?


I thought he said "Johnny" as he was looking across the parking lot at John Locke.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

markz said:


> I thought he said "Johnny" as he was looking across the parking lot at John Locke.


Goth

No, it was "Charlie"

And thanks folks for the observation about the Jacob pixie dust ashes in the bag.


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> Goth
> 
> No, it was "Charlie"


You are correct!



Shaunnick said:


> Interesting that Desmond in Alterno timeline told Ben that his son's name was Charlie. Why did he say that particular name?


And he said it because his son's name IS Charlie:

From Wiki about Season 5:



> Sometime later, Penny gives birth to Desmond's son in the Philippines, the child being named Charlie.


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

Whoa. I hope Desmond has things more thought out than, "I'm pissed at Locke." And unless he already contacted the other candidates, and we just haven't been shown that yet, hopefully he has a good plan for not getting arrested.



Shaunnick said:


> Interesting that Desmond in Alterno timeline told Ben that his son's name was Charlie. Why did he say that particular name?


It was his son's name in the island timeline, so I think he just used that.


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

markz said:


> You are correct!
> 
> And he said it because his son's name IS Charlie:
> 
> From Wiki about Season 5:





BitbyBlit said:


> Whoa. I hope Desmond has things more thought out than, "I'm pissed at Locke." And unless he already contacted the other candidates, and we just haven't been shown that yet, hopefully he has a good plan for not getting arrested.
> 
> It was his son's name in the island timeline, so I think he just used that.


Right. I guess I should have asked my question differently. What I was asking was why would he use his son's name from the other time line unless he knew that was his son's name. I think that is the strongest bit of evidence that Desmond is connected to himself in the prime timeline. He knows he has a son, and that his son _is_ Charlie. I just thought that was very fascinating.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

unixadm said:


> LOVED that Hugo got a rush of memories when Libby kissed him.....some good reveals tonight.....Hugo understanding that Michael and the dead people he sees are "stuck".....and that is why Libby never visited him post death...she probably isn't "stuck"


...and Michael made it obvious that he can't communicate with Libby (by asking Hugo to apologize to her for him).

So Hugo should be easily able to figure out the differences between people who died and can visit him and those who can't, and that the two can't communicate.

Obviously Hugo has a huge role in how this ends. I kind of wish he'd let Jack in on it more, so that Jack's leadership can help Hugo's knowledge get used correctly and by more people.


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> He aimed his car at Locke, floored the pedal, got a good head of steam going, and hit him full speed. If he wasn't trying to kill him, he's as delusional as the people who think he wasn't trying to kill him.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> I noticed that too.
> 
> I cracked up when Illana got blowed up. I was thinking about how unstable the dynamite was supposed to be and BOOM!
> 
> Why did they even need dynamite anyway? They have guns. Just put a few bullets in the plane's control panel and shoot out the wheels or maybe shoot the gas tanks.


That was my thought too. Just pop a tire and the plane is screwed.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> He aimed his car at Locke, floored the pedal, got a good head of steam going, and hit him full speed. If he wasn't trying to kill him, he's as delusional as the people who think he wasn't trying to kill him.


Agreed.

He was really gunning it, and hit a guy in a wheelchair dead on at full speed.

That's killing stuff there. My thought is that he's trying not to let Locke (or Locke's body) be on that island. Not sure why, of if that even makes sense, but it's what I was thinking. There are many, much easier and more controlled ways to cause near death than nailing them with a car.


----------



## Carlucci (Jan 10, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> He aimed his car at Locke, floored the pedal, got a good head of steam going, and hit him full speed. If he wasn't trying to kill him, he's as delusional as the people who think he wasn't trying to kill him.


So why does Charlie get a pass for not wanting to kill Desmond (and himself) when forcing the car into the water? Seems we should have deemed him homicidal and suicidal at that point too.

Desmond said himself when he sought the manifest that he wanted to "show them something". He didn't mention revenge or any other motive other than implying that he wanted everyone on that flight to be able to see what they have been unable to see, and he seems to think that he has to follow Charlie's lead--put them in an extremely stressfull, death-is-imminent situation or get them to feel intense love. To assign a homicidal intent to Desmond at this point, with what we know about what he knows, seems more of a stretch to me. I'd rather chalk it up to him having some prescience that Locke would survive (which would also be a stretch)


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

So what do Jacob's ashes look like to Hurley?

He looks in a bag and sees some ashes and that's meaningful? I was (and am) confused.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I was joking before, but now I'm serious. We're in "Sun didn't have sex with Jai" territory here.
> 
> He aimed his car at Locke, floored the pedal, got a good head of steam going, and hit him full speed. If he wasn't trying to kill him, he's as delusional as the people who think he wasn't trying to kill him.


Since I was on the "Sun didn't necessarily have sex with Jai" people, I might as well disagree with you here... 

Maybe Desmond KNEW that Locke couldn't be killed by him at that point, the way other people have been unable to kill themselves? He might have wanted him to get a "near death" experience, and doing this was as safe as anything, since he knew he wouldn't die.

OK, I don't really believe that (I'm pretty sure he tried to kill him) but it's a possibility...


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## Rinkdog (Dec 21, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> He aimed his car at Locke, floored the pedal, got a good head of steam going, and hit him full speed. If he wasn't trying to kill him, he's as delusional as the people who think he wasn't trying to kill him.


So the hobbit was trying to kill Desmond?


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Rinkdog said:


> So the Hobbit was trying to kill Desmond?


I'm pretty sure Meriadoc was trying to kill himself and took Desmond along for the ride. The experience though did set something off for Desmond, and allowed him to realize a method to "touch" the other unverse.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Carlucci said:


> So why does Charlie get a pass for not wanting to kill Desmond (and himself) when forcing the car into the water? Seems we should have deemed him homicidal and suicidal at that point too.
> 
> Desmond said himself when he sought the manifest that he wanted to "show them something". He didn't mention revenge or any other motive other than implying that he wanted everyone on that flight to be able to see what they have been unable to see, and he seems to think that he has to follow Charlie's lead--put them in an extremely stressfull, death-is-imminent situation or get them to feel intense love. To assign a homicidal intent to Desmond at this point, with what we know about what he knows, seems more of a stretch to me. I'd rather chalk it up to him having some prescience that Locke would survive (which would also be a stretch)


Charlie's dead in the Island reality and so is John Locke.
Coincidence?


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## condog6696 (Apr 14, 2010)

He definitely knew him on the island in 1977 before it blew up? 

Why isn't he 30 years older. Dr. Chang that is.


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

condog6696 said:


> He definitely knew him on the island in 1977 before it blew up?
> 
> Why isn't he 30 years older. Dr. Chang that is.


Because he was in an alternate reality where the Losties didn't go back in time to 1977. Keep up! 

In all seriousness, this episode had a lot of jaw-dropping moments. This is where the foot meets the gas pedal and slams it down.

Who IS that boy that UnLocke keeps seeing and why is he brunette here? He appeared to find some fiendish delight in torturing Locke by his appearance.

Did not expect to find the whispers explained as economically and elegantly as they did here. :up:


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I agree with those that say Desmond somehow knew he couldn't kill Locke, so slamming into his chair seemed to be the best way to get him to have that near-death experience he needs to have in order to "see" the Island timeline.


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

condog6696 said:


> He definitely knew him on the island in 1977 before it blew up?
> 
> Why isn't he 30 years older. Dr. Chang that is.


There is still a question as to whether the Losties were ever on the island (in the '70's) in this alternate reality. Heck, we don't even know if Chang was ever on the island for that matter. But very good point on his age. He should have been shown to have been way older in this reality, the same as Roger Linus. Probably just a continuity error.


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

tewcewl said:


> Did not expect to find the whispers explained as economically and elegantly as they did here. :up:


"Elegant" is actually the opposite of how I would describe it. I mean, it was a decent explanation, but the dialog in that scene seemed way clunky to me.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

condog6696 said:


> Why isn't he 30 years older. Dr. Chang that is.


That stood out to me too. I can't come up with a good reason for that. Unless he finally figured out time travel.


----------



## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The other thing that made it funny to me...it happened very quickly, but I got the impression that in the middle of her hissy fit, she threw the bag with the dynamite down on the ground.
> 
> I was joking before, but now I'm serious. We're in "Sun didn't have sex with Jai" territory here.
> 
> He aimed his car at Locke, floored the pedal, got a good head of steam going, and hit him full speed. If he wasn't trying to kill him, he's as delusional as the people who think he wasn't trying to kill him.


I, too, think he was trying to kill him, but I think this is overboard. There are actually some decent theories as to why he "wouldn't" want to kill him to the point that tossing the idea aside as preposterous seems harsh.


----------



## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

MickeS said:


> That stood out to me too. I can't come up with a good reason for that. Unless he finally figured out time travel.


Maybe his island self was the one who had figured out time travel. Or Jacob touched him in the alternate timeline. Or maybe he just ages very well


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

uncdrew said:


> That was my thought too. Just pop a tire and the plane is screwed.


This. It's not like the island has a bunch of spare 747 parts laying around. Just shoot up the cockpit control panel, slash the tires, or remove/otherwise render inoperable the pilot and copilot control column/yoke. Hell, break out the cockpit window


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

uncdrew said:


> So what do Jacob's ashes look like to Hurley?
> 
> He looks in a bag and sees some ashes and that's meaningful? I was (and am) confused.


Maybe that reminded him that he could "see" Jacob when no one else could, and gave him the idea to take charge by making up some fake instructions by Jacob? But still doesn't explain *why* he did so.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

So the series has once again dramatically shifted its focus from prior seasons' Jack led escapades to now centering on Hurley's reluctant emergence as an intuitive leader assisted by apparitions and Desmond's dualverse tactics to raise awareness in 815 survivors, focused on some of the Oceanic Six and maybe LAXLocke. It's notable that Des spent no effort trying to engage LAXBen's awareness. He likely spent zero effort interacting with the Sayid zombie, although we cannot be certain. It's apparent as much as things can be on LOST that the EMP enhanced linked Desmonds are calmly & completely focused on their newfound missions. I can't see this happening unless the Desmonds somehow sense that what they do results in the best for Penny & Charlie. What he 'forsees' as the potential outcome of course remains enigmatic. Pronouns and verb tenses fail. It's LOST.


----------



## Carlucci (Jan 10, 2001)

JYoung said:


> Charlie's dead in the Island reality and so is John Locke.
> Coincidence?


Not sure how that relates to the question of Desmond's motive for running down Locke, but I'll add that Charlotte and Daniel are also dead in the Island reality.

Where are you going with this? If you are saying that dead-on-island people need a love experience to re-connect, and live-on-island people need a near-death experience to re-connect, it doesn't fit because Hurley got by with a love experience, and he's not dead-on-island.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

DreadPirateRob said:


> This. It's not like the island has a bunch of spare 747 parts laying around. Just shoot up the cockpit control panel, slash the tires, or remove/otherwise render inoperable the pilot and copilot control column/yoke. *Hell, break out the cockpit window*


IIRC, the cockpit window is already broken, since the co-pilot was impaled by a tree during their crash landing.


----------



## condog6696 (Apr 14, 2010)

tewcewl said:


> Because he was in an alternate reality where the Losties didn't go back in time to 1977. Keep up!
> 
> In all seriousness, this episode had a lot of jaw-dropping moments. This is where the foot meets the gas pedal and slams it down.
> 
> ...


The reality doesn't split until the bomb blows up in 1977 and the island sinks to the bottom of the ocean. Up until then they should have the same history. They island has to blow up to create the alternate reality so Hurley & Co. always end up in 1977.


----------



## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

pcguru83 said:


> It occurred to me just how strikingly similar what Desmond is doing is to what Jacob did in the "real" timeline. Jacob methodically went around visiting the Oceanic 815 passengers prior to their convergence on the Island. Desmond now seems to be doing the same in the "sideways" timeline thanks to the flight manifest he's obtained.
> 
> This may have been obvious to some after last week, but it really clicked tonight.


I think it is of extreme interest as well as a portent of Desmond's role and the sacrifice he will be asked to make. I don't think Desmond's getting off that island.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

condog6696 said:


> The reality doesn't split until the bomb blows up in 1977 and the island sinks to the bottom of the ocean. Up until then they should have the same history.


No, because a lot of what happened before the bomb was the result of time-traveling Losties (i.e., John Locke, who seems to have had considerable impact on the Others from the 50s on).


----------



## TiVoJedi (Mar 1, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> My recording cut off just as Desmond punched the gas on his car, and when I started my recording of "V," I just got the "LOST: The Final Season" thing. So whatever I missed was only a few seconds, but what exactly happened? Desmond ran Locke down and then when Locke opened his eyes, Ben was standing over him?


Same thing happened to me! Damn Win 7 MCE putting that gap between back to back recordings like that!


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

Carlucci said:


> To assign a homicidal intent to Desmond at this point, with what we know about what he knows, seems more of a stretch to me. I'd rather chalk it up to him having some prescience that Locke would survive (which would also be a stretch)


I agree, for the reason that uncdrew posted, even though he disagrees. 



uncdrew said:


> There are many, much easier and more controlled ways to cause near death than nailing them with a car.


There are a lot more controlled and less visible ways to end people's lives as well. To me it seems like Desmond knew, or at least thought, he was supposed to hit Locke with a car for some reason, because otherwise running him over in broad daylight seems like the worst possible way to accomplish the act of ending Locke's life.

It could very well be that Desmond was trying to kill him, but given the show's history of people knowing they or others cannot die, I don't think it is as obvious as Sun and Jae having had sex.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

condog6696 said:


> The reality doesn't split until the bomb blows up in 1977 and the island sinks to the bottom of the ocean. Up until then they should have the same history. They island has to blow up to create the alternate reality so Hurley & Co. always end up in 1977.


We don't know what caused the two timelines, whether it was the bomb or something different. But we do know that there was not a single point where both realities were together and then diverged. In the previous Jack episode, we learn that in the LA X timeline, Jack had his appendix out when he was seven, although he can't remember that. In the Island timeline, he had his appendix out on the Island. If the two realities were together up until the bomb, then there wouldn't be the discrepancy in when Jack's appendix was removed.


----------



## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

philw1776 said:


> It's notable that Des spent no effort trying to engage LAXBen's awareness.


Why would DesX care about BenX since BenX wasn't on Oceanic 815? He doesn't know who this spectacled gentleman knocking on his window is.



condog6696 said:


> The reality doesn't split until the bomb blows up in 1977 and the island sinks to the bottom of the ocean. Up until then they should have the same history. They island has to blow up to create the alternate reality so Hurley & Co. always end up in 1977.





Rob Helmerichs said:


> No, because a lot of what happened before the bomb was the result of time-traveling Losties (i.e., John Locke, who seems to have had considerable impact on the Others from the 50s on).


As Rob has already pointed out, history changed before 1977. We've seen evidence of this, notably Ben not being shot.

Edit: And DevdogAZ's post above.


----------



## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

jking said:


> "Elegant" is actually the opposite of how I would describe it. I mean, it was a decent explanation, but the dialog in that scene seemed way clunky to me.


Well, instead of a convoluted explanation, it was summed up just in a couple lines worth of dialogue.

That's what I meant by elegant here. Now, as if the dialogue wasn't elegant, well, then neither one of these characters are known for their fine linguistic skills. To wit: Dude and WAAAAAAAALLLLTTTT.


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

2 quick thoughts:

1) I'm tired of 10 different groups constantly walking around the island lately. The constant migration and its snail pace really feels like a filler.

2) The handicap parking space placement at Locke's school sucks if he needs to cross 2 streets in a wheelchair to get to his spot.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Carlucci said:


> Not sure how that relates to the question of Desmond's motive for running down Locke, but I'll add that Charlotte and Daniel are also dead in the Island reality.
> 
> Where are you going with this? If you are saying that dead-on-island people need a love experience to re-connect, and live-on-island people need a near-death experience to re-connect, it doesn't fit because Hurley got by with a love experience, and he's not dead-on-island.


What happens to Alternate Charlie and Locke may be inconsequential since they are dead in the Island reality.

I speculated earlier that Alternate Desmond may need John Locke dead for a reason.
One: It gets him to the hospital which will be the one where Jack is and where Sun and Jin are going.
Two: Locke's body was used in the Island reality to assist them in getting back to the Island. It may have to be used in a similar way in the Alternate Reality.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

DUDE_NJX said:


> 2) The handicap parking space placement at Locke's school sucks if he needs to cross 2 streets in a wheelchair to get to his spot.


Remember that Alternate Locke didn't use the handicapped spot at the box company either as a matter of prinicple.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

DUDE_NJX said:


> 1) I'm tired of 10 different groups constantly walking around the island lately. The constant migration and its snail pace really feels like a filler.


I think the island is getting smaller. What used to take several hours of walking, and even a couple days....is now done in just no time at all. Though I guess time is relative now.

Forgive me for asking, my brain is a blank, where was Jin last night?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

betts4 said:


> I think the island is getting smaller. What used to take several hours of walking, and even a couple days....is now done in just no time at all. Though I guess time is relative now.
> 
> Forgive me for asking, my brain is a blank, where was Jin last night?


He's still being detained on Hydra Island by Widmore and Co. No idea why Sayid didn't break Jin out while he was kidnapping Desmond.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> He's still being detained on Hydra Island by Widmore and Co. No idea why Sayid didn't break Jin out while he was kidnapping Desmond.


/hits the side of my head/ that's right.

I guess since Sayid was only sent to find out what Widmore was hiding, he didn't think about Jin. Sayid is a bit weird now.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I agree with those that say Desmond somehow knew he couldn't kill Locke, so slamming into his chair seemed to be the best way to get him to have that near-death experience he needs to have in order to "see" the Island timeline.


If you can't die, how can you have a near death experience?


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

verdugan said:


> If you can't die, how can you have a near death experience?


----------



## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

"What's that, Vincent? Desmond fell down a well?"


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

verdugan said:


> If you can't die, how can you have a near death experience?


If you don't know you can't die.

(Under a theory that the trauma of *thinking* you are near death somehow cuts through the "fog" that is keeping you from remembering/feeling things from the other timeline.)


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Shakhari said:


> "What's that, Vincent? Desmond fell down a well?"


:up::up: :up: :up:


----------



## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

Carlucci said:


> Not sure how that relates to the question of Desmond's motive for running down Locke, but I'll add that Charlotte and Daniel are also dead in the Island reality.


So is Libby, too.


----------



## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

They also seem to be holding off on the Jin/Sun reunion (assuming it happens) until the very end, building it into a huge magic moment. I'm assuming they will reunite. I'm imagining "Theme from a Summer Place" playing as they run towards each other in slow motion. Ok, maybe not.

But after all this, I'd like to see the show end on something that most folks would interpret as a "happy note". These poor characters have suffered long, drawn out, bizarre fates for most of their lives. And most of them didn't even realize it until the island spotlighted it.

So, speculation on the mystery kid who apparently found a bottle of Dharma peroxide. Could this perhaps be a manifestation of MiB'/FakeLocke's father as a young boy? Jacob as a young boy? Remember, at the end of Return of the Jedi:



Spoiler



We saw a young Anakin ghost visage, not an old, bald Darth Vader with dark eyebrows. Well, at least until George Lucas re-edited and enhanced the thing. Maybe this mystery kid is in fact the Island Anakin (Jacob) now that he's been slain. And he's more powerful than we could ever imagine.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

TiVotion said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> We saw a young Anakin ghost visage, not an old, bald Darth Vader with dark eyebrows. Well, at least until George Lucas re-edited and enhanced the thing. Maybe this mystery kid is in fact the Island Anakin (Jacob) now that he's been slain. And he's more powerful than we could ever imagine.


The boy looked more like Peter Pan to me.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

s/ever/possibly


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## avery (May 29, 2006)

getreal said:


> The boy looked more like Peter Pan to me.


He looked much more like one of the Lost Boys than he did Peter. (how very appropriate)


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Maybe that reminded him that he could "see" Jacob when no one else could, and gave him the idea to take charge by making up some fake instructions by Jacob? But still doesn't explain *why* he did so.


I was kind of picturing a Pulp Fiction or Repo Man thing, where Jacob's ashes were glowing or something.

Meh.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

BitbyBlit said:


> I agree, for the reason that uncdrew posted, even though he disagrees.
> 
> There are a lot more controlled and less visible ways to end people's lives as well. To me it seems like Desmond knew, or at least thought, he was supposed to hit Locke with a car for some reason, because otherwise running him over in broad daylight seems like the worst possible way to accomplish the act of ending Locke's life.
> 
> It could very well be that Desmond was trying to kill him, but given the show's history of people knowing they or others cannot die, I don't think it is as obvious as Sun and Jae having had sex.


I'm on your page now and have changed my mind. I too think Desmond knew he can't kill Locke so just drilled him to jolt some memories (and perhaps it was even planned to be with Ben nearby).


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

DUDE_NJX said:


> 2 quick thoughts:
> 
> 1) I'm tired of 10 different groups constantly walking around the island lately. The constant migration and its snail pace really feels like a filler.
> 
> 2) The handicap parking space placement at Locke's school sucks if he needs to cross 2 streets in a wheelchair to get to his spot.


Don't tell me where I can't park!


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

Bananfish said:


> If you don't know you can't die.
> 
> (Under a theory that the trauma of *thinking* you are near death somehow cuts through the "fog" that is keeping you from remembering/feeling things from the other timeline.)


Interesting. I vote on discovering those memories through love rather than by almost dying.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Paperboy2003 said:


> I thought the bag contained Jacob dust


There are 2 things I'm remembering that nobody else does, so I'm probably imagining them. I thought at some point Ilana buried Jacob's ashes. I remember her going on about how much he meant to her while digging. 

Also, when they showed Flocke carving on a piece of wood, I thought it was reminding us of Locke carving things before and saying that thing about the wood showing him what it was. I was thinking this along with, "don't tell me what I can't do," and something else I can't remember right now, was telling us that original Locke is still in there someplace. Maybe Hurley's idea of talking to Locke refers to trying to reach the real John Locke in there. But since no one else mentioned it, it's probably a stretch. 

Just because Jack was standing next to Richard when he couldn't die, doesn't mean that Jack can't die, does it? The dynamite fizzled to save Richard, but not necessarily Jack.

The island may hold ghosts more than your typical location, but it doesn't have to be an island ghost for Hurley to see it, does it? So maybe all the island ghosts killed someone, but he can also see other ghosts who haven't killed anyone like Richard's wife. So he could possibly see Libby.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

A coworker mentioned this..

Everyone in the sideways line that has "remembered" something from the original line had a significant love interest.. (we've been talking about either love or trauma, but they're all love related.. so far anyway).

Desmond - Penny
Hurley - Libby
Daniel - Charlotte
Charlie - Claire.. He said that when he almost died on heroine, he saw flashes of the most beautiful girl (or something like that). Bottom line - his flashes were of her, a love interest.

If you start counting mirror visions, maybe that list expands.. but bottom line, love is there for all of the "i remember!" moments so far. We'll see about Locke.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

jkeegan said:


> A coworker mentioned this..
> 
> Everyone in the sideways line that has "remembered" something from the original line had a significant love interest.. (we've been talking about either love or trauma, but they're all love related.. so far anyway).
> 
> ...


This is what I was getting at in my post last week:



danterner said:


> It occurred to me while watching this episode that there was quite a focus on the transcendent power of love. We had discussion of Charlie's insta-love for Claire when he saw her on 815. We had discussion of Daniel's insta-love for Charlotte when he saw her, and how that resulted in his notebook scribblings. We had the main plotline, which concerned Desmond and Penny. It's like the power that will join the two universes together is the power of love. Cue Huey Lewis. Or Captain & Tennille ("love will keep us together"), I suppose. If it turns out that love is so important to resolving the disparate realities as one unified reality, I wonder if we'll wind up seeing that Rose and Bernard are somehow Adam and Eve, after all. They seem to be the "island standard" for pure love.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> A coworker mentioned this..
> 
> Everyone in the sideways line that has "remembered" something from the original line had a significant love interest.. (we've been talking about either love or trauma, but they're all love related.. so far anyway).
> 
> ...


Locke is going to have a "memory" of his suitcase full of knives.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

The thing that really jumped out at me was that Des saw the boy in the forest! So far as I recall this is the first time we've seen evidence that the boy is not a figment of Flocke's imagination/subconscious.

Of course Des is all electromagnetized 'n stuff so maybe he's on Flocke's "wavelength", so to speak. But the other surprising thing is that Flocke didn't seem at all surprised that Des could see the boy, which kind of leads me to think that anyone would see him, if they were looking in the right place at the right time. To me that makes the boy a very mysterious, very important aspect. Of course I could be wrong! 

Personally I think Flocke has absolutely no idea who or what Des is. He tossed him in the well simply because Widmore wanted him, and Flocke didn't know why. Remember he seemed surprised when he saw who Sayid brought back.

My guess is that Des is a critical part of Jacob's master plan to thwart Flocke, and that's why Flocke has no idea about him. I guess that's obvious but it seemed that some earlier posts thought Flocke was purposefully dumping Des to keep him in line in the sideways timeline--I don't think Flocke has any idea there IS a sideways timeline, and certainly has no idea that memories are "leaking" between the two.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

madscientist said:


> The thing that really jumped out at me was that Des saw the boy in the forest! So far as I recall this is the first time we've seen evidence that the boy is not a figment of Flocke's imagination/subconscious.


IIRC, in an earlier episode when FLocke and Sawyer were walking through the jungle, Sawyer saw the kid as well, and asked about him.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

madscientist said:


> The thing that really jumped out at me was that Des saw the boy in the forest! So far as I recall this is the first time we've seen evidence that the boy is not a figment of Flocke's imagination/subconscious.


Sawyer saw the boy previously


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> IIRC, in an earlier episode when FLocke and Sawyer were walking through the jungle, Sawyer saw the kid as well, and asked about him.





philw1776 said:


> Sawyer saw the boy previously


And i'm pretty sure FLocke was surprised that Sawyer could see him.

-smak-


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

stellie93 said:


> There are 2 things I'm remembering that nobody else does, so I'm probably imagining them. I thought at some point Ilana buried Jacob's ashes. I remember her going on about how much he meant to her while digging.


I think they showed that she did that with only part of the ashes. She kept some. I'm sure somebody will be able to dig a screencap.


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

I too think Desmond is clearly jumping between timelines. Need to rewatch and see if teh scar on his forhead stays with him thru both.......


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

stellie93 said:


> *Also, when they showed Flocke carving on a piece of wood, I thought it was reminding us of Locke carving things before and saying that thing about the wood showing him what it was. * I was thinking this along with, "don't tell me what I can't do," and something else I can't remember right now, was telling us that original Locke is still in there someplace. Maybe Hurley's idea of talking to Locke refers to trying to reach the real John Locke in there. But since no one else mentioned it, it's probably a stretch.


It seemed familiar to me too. I was thinking of Eko, but it may well have been Locke.


----------



## Snappa77 (Feb 14, 2004)

Hmmm Maybe Desmond didn't mean to hit Locke....maybe he was driving a Toyota. 


Where is Vincent? Can't remember if that dog was stuck in the past also.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Snappa77 said:


> Where is Vincent? Can't remember if that dog was stuck in the past also.


Isn't Vincent with Rose & Bernard?

Greg


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

gchance said:


> Isn't Vincent with Rose & Bernard?


yes... that's where we saw him last.

Diane


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Didn't see anyone mention this, but this might be something only noticed by big Springsteen fans like myself. Hugo was going to meet a girl named Rosalita (the name of one of Bruce's famous songs/characters) at a resturaunt called Spanish Johnny's. Spanish Johnny is the main character in the Springsteen song _Incident on 57th Street_. The song precedes Rosalita (and actually goes right into it, almost like one song) on the Bruce album The Wild, The Innocent and the E Street Shuffle....the album that precedes Born To Run, which was his breakout album (not sure if there's anything to that in Lost).


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Steveknj said:


> Didn't see anyone mention this, but this might be something only noticed by big Springsteen fans like myself. Hugo was going to meet a girl named Rosalita (the name of one of Bruce's famous songs/characters) at a resturaunt called Spanish Johnny's. Spanish Johnny is the main character in the Springsteen song _Incident on 57th Street_. The song precedes Rosalita (and actually goes right into it, almost like one song) on the Bruce album The Wild, The Innocent and the E Street Shuffle....*the album that precedes Born To Run, which was his breakout album* (not sure if there's anything to that in Lost).


...and which also was the title of the Season 1, Episode 22, episode of Lost...


----------



## ronsch (Sep 7, 2001)

madscientist said:


> Personally I think Flocke has absolutely no idea who or what Des is. He tossed him in the well simply because Widmore wanted him, and Flocke didn't know why. Remember he seemed surprised when he saw who Sayid brought back.
> 
> My guess is that Des is a critical part of Jacob's master plan to thwart Flocke, and that's why Flocke has no idea about him. I guess that's obvious but it seemed that some earlier posts thought Flocke was purposefully dumping Des to keep him in line in the sideways timeline--I don't think Flocke has any idea there IS a sideways timeline, and certainly has no idea that memories are "leaking" between the two.


I don't know. Remember that Des explained to Flocke what Widmore had done to him. Flocke has to be aware of what the island is and the significance of the magnetic anomalies.


----------



## mostman (Jul 16, 2000)

uncdrew said:


> So what do Jacob's ashes look like to Hurley?
> 
> He looks in a bag and sees some ashes and that's meaningful? I was (and am) confused.


I think what happened is that the pieces fell into place for Hurley. He saw the ashes - remembered the cabin - realized what the ashes were - and formulated a plan. He knows he has to (or they have to ) "kill the man in black", and now he has an idea how. We don't know the plan - but its no coincidence that he immediately told the group they had to go see Fake Locke after finding the ashes. He is up to something.

One comment on Desmond. Did anyone notice that he didn't scream on the way down (or did he?). He says something about it being pointless to be scared and then gets pushed in without caring much. I think he knows whats going to happen ultimately. He probably had a vision that wasn't shared with us, yet.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

danterner said:


> ...and which also was the title of the Season 1, Episode 22, episode of Lost...


Good catch, been awhile since I've seen S1 episodes


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

mostman said:


> One comment on Desmond. Did anyone notice that he didn't scream on the way down (or did he?). He says something about it being pointless to be scared and then gets pushed in without caring much. I think he knows whats going to happen ultimately. He probably had a vision that wasn't shared with us, yet.


I could be wrong, but I think he did scream.


----------



## Queue (Apr 7, 2009)

Was it the ashes Hurley found? I thought that was something from Sawyer's old spot and those were the backgammon pieces Locke had in S1.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

mostman said:


> I think what happened is that the pieces fell into place for Hurley. He saw the ashes - remembered the cabin - realized what the ashes were - and formulated a plan. He knows he has to (or they have to ) "kill the man in black", and now he has an idea how. We don't know the plan - but its no coincidence that he immediately told the group they had to go see Fake Locke after finding the ashes. He is up to something.
> 
> One comment on Desmond. Did anyone notice that he didn't scream on the way down (or did he?). He says something about it being pointless to be scared and then gets pushed in without caring much. I think he knows whats going to happen ultimately. He probably had a vision that wasn't shared with us, yet.


Yah he screamed.

Back to the ashes Hurley found in Ilana's stuff, I wonder what happens if/when the ashes that keep out the smoke monstah get tossed in unLocke's face?

Loved Ben's rumination after she went all Arzt on everyone "Wonder what happens to us when the Island is done with us?"


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> Loved Ben's rumination after she went all Arzt on everyone "Wonder what happens to us when the Island is done with us?"


"You go back to obscurity, like most hit show TV stars."


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Even if I knew that I was going to end up safe and victorious in some effort, I think I'd still scream on the way down if someone threw me down a well.

(EVEN if I'd already seen myself being thrown down that well!)


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## Cindy1230 (Oct 31, 2003)

mqpickles said:


> My favorite line/phrase of the night: "The Human Fund." My husband and I just looked at each other and grinned.


My husband and I did the same thing 



loubob57 said:


> When they got dynamite from the Black Rock I wondered about when dynamite was invented. It was invented the same year as when the Black Rock shipwrecked, 1867! That's as old as dynamite could possibly be unless they got it from Alfred Nobel while he was experimenting.


I brought this up in previous threads - probably about the episode when Richard went back to the Black Rock with Jack. I think it's been chalked up to be a writer's goof.


----------



## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

Cindy1230 said:


> My husband and I did the same thing
> 
> I brought this up in previous threads - probably about the episode when Richard went back to the Black Rock with Jack. I think it's been chalked up to be a writer's goof.


Actually, did they ever say the dynamite came to the island on the Black Rock? I always figured it was just stored there.


----------



## Phillip Chapman (Sep 9, 2003)

A few thoughts 

Remember that Hurley referenced Libby visiting him after her death even though we never saw it. In The Incident, Hurley said to Jacob "That's why the plane crashed, my friends diedLibby, Charlie. Now they visit me, and I can't make it stop." And in The Lie, when Hurley had a vision of Ana Lucia, just before she disappeared, she told him that "Libby says hi." 

Also, Hurley did win the lottery in the sideways. He actually won more here, $187 million.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Magister said:


> Actually, did they ever say the dynamite came to the island on the Black Rock? I always figured it was just stored there.


I always figured that when they were time-jumping, they went to the distant past and Locke (it would have to be Locke, wouldn't it?) stepped on a butterfly, which didn't flap its wings in South America, which didn't cause a storm in China, which caused dynamite to be invented a few decades earlier.

Isn't that the most logical explanation?


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> Even if I knew that I was going to end up safe and victorious in some effort, I think I'd still scream on the way down if someone threw me down a well.
> 
> (EVEN if I'd already seen myself being thrown down that well!)


At the time, I was surprised when he screamed because it seemed to me he knew he was gonna get thrown down there, and almost goaded FLocke to do it. (I was waiting for it to happen the whole time they were talking). But now that I think about it, I scream on rollercoasters even though I'm pretty sure I'm gonna end up safe and victorious.

And Des could have screamed for its effect on FLocke - if getting thrown down there was all part of a master plan to defeat FLocke, FLocke might catch on if he didn't scream ... and he'd seen that FLocke's suspicions already were aroused by how calm he was.


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

Cindy1230 said:


> I brought this up in previous threads [Black Rock sailing the same year dynamite was invented] - probably about the episode when Richard went back to the Black Rock with Jack. I think it's been chalked up to be a writer's goof.


It seems to me it can't be a coincedence that they picked the EXACT same year. The writers probably wanted to set the Black Rock's journey as long ago as possible, but also wanted it to be carrying dynamite, so when they looked up when dynamite was invented, they said "well, 1867 it is I guess ... we can't go any further back than that."


----------



## vman (Feb 9, 2001)

DreadPirateRob said:


> This. It's not like the island has a bunch of spare 747 parts laying around. Just shoot up the cockpit control panel, slash the tires, or remove/otherwise render inoperable the pilot and copilot control column/yoke. Hell, break out the cockpit window


Don't forget, Sayid is around (albeit in zombie form) and he seems to be a regular McGyver at fixing electronics and stuff, so total destruction does seem much more certain...

While I'm still very excited about the conclusion of this journey, I was a little disappointed in some of the stuff in this episode: 
- the surprisingly speedy jaunts to the black rock;
- the quick dispatch of what the whispers are (I hope there is more to their presence than just the Michael/Hurley 15-second chat -the whispers have recurred often enough over the life of the series it seems they ought to play a bigger role in the conclusion)
- yet another complete flip by Jack - he says he is beating himself since Juliet's death, but didn't he go through a similar experience when they first went back to the 70s (when he refused to help Ben), until Farraday showed up and took 3 seconds to convince Jack to blow up an atomic bomb. So I'm not really buying the new mellow "let others take charge" Jack.

On Ilana, as she was walking around with the dynamite (more like stomping around) I kept waiting for her to blow up - she even was throwing water bottles and other supplies into the same pack as the dynamite - but I was still surprised when she actually did blow up!!!


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Bananfish said:


> It seems to me it can't be a coincedence that they picked the EXACT same year. The writers probably wanted to set the Black Rock's journey as long ago as possible, but also wanted it to be carrying dynamite, so when they looked up when dynamite was invented, they said "well, 1867 it is I guess ... we can't go any further back than that."


I think it's even easier to explain than that. The dynamite first made its appearance in the show in late S1, when Arzt & Co. found it. The date of 1867 wasn't revealed until later, when we found out about the ship's logs being sold at an auction. I'm sure that the writers never contemplated what year the ship crashed on the Island when they introduced the dynamite, but then when they realized they had to expand on the backstory of the Black Rock and the dynamite, they realized they couldn't make it any earlier than 1867.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

vman said:


> - yet another complete flip by Jack - he says he is beating himself since Juliet's death, but didn't he go through a similar experience when they first went back to the 70s (when he refused to help Ben), until Farraday showed up and took 3 seconds to convince Jack to blow up an atomic bomb. So I'm not really buying the new mellow "let others take charge" Jack.


Interesting. From my perspective Jack's evolution seems well done. He sees how his hasty, forcefull decisions managed to get someone he was very close to killed. His confidence and certitude is shaken. Hurley's taking point is well received.


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think it's even easier to explain than that. The dynamite first made its appearance in the show in late S1, when Arzt & Co. found it. The date of 1867 wasn't revealed until later, when we found out about the ship's logs being sold at an auction. I'm sure that the writers never contemplated what year the ship crashed on the Island when they introduced the dynamite, but then when they realized they had to expand on the backstory of the Black Rock and the dynamite, they realized they couldn't make it any earlier than 1867.


Yes, that's exactly what I meant .... the "when they realized they had to expand on the backstory of the Black Rock and the dynamite" was implied.


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> Interesting. From my perspective Jack's evolution seems well done. He sees how his hasty, forcefull decisions managed to get someone he was very close to killed. His confidence and certitude is shaken. Hurley's taking point is well received.


Don't forget that Jacob's having Hurley show Jack the mirror lighthouse kind of rocked Jack's world too ... made him susceptible to the idea that forces bigger than him were at work, that he was on the island for a reason and that he just needs to enjoy the ride and find out what that reason is.


----------



## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

Bizarro Libby is hotter than the original. Did she get breast implants in the alt universe?


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Bananfish said:


> Don't forget that Jacob's having Hurley show Jack the mirror lighthouse kind of rocked Jack's world too ... made him susceptible to the idea that forces bigger than him were at work, that he was on the island for a reason and that he just needs to enjoy the ride and find out what that reason is.


Yes. Excellent point. Well done scenes that precipitated Jack's change of attitude.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

A couple things from Jorge's podcast. The baby picture of Hurley was Jorge--it looks like him. And the little dog he's holding is his dog. 

Hurley's Dad isn't around in the sideways. Just another one of those butterfly things, I guess.

Also about the whispers... In the early seasons didn't the whispers mean Smokey wasn't far behind? I think I remember Danielle telling them to run when they hear them. So do the dead people hang out with Smokey?

I looked up Locke carving. In season one he carved a dog whistle out of a stick so he could call Vincent for Walt. So original Locke does know how to carve. I'm sticking with the idea that Locke is in there with MiB and can influence him at some point.


----------



## T-Wolves (Aug 22, 2000)

vman said:


> ...On Ilana, as she was walking around with the dynamite (more like stomping around) I kept waiting for her to blow up - she even was throwing water bottles and other supplies into the same pack as the dynamite - but I was still surprised when she actually did blow up!!!


The method of her dispatch makes me wonder if the actress did something to piss off the writers. It really must've been a slap in the face of the actress (Zuleikha Robinson) to see the script and find out that after all stuff the character had gone though, she was going to die as a joke. I hope Darlton give us some explanation for the way they killed her off.



Bananfish said:


> And Des could have screamed for its effect on FLocke - if getting thrown down there was all part of a master plan to defeat FLocke, FLocke might catch on if he didn't scream ... and he'd seen that FLocke's suspicions already were aroused by how calm he was.


I almost posted this yesterday -- but MIB-Locke asked Desmond twice "*Why aren't you afraid?*" before he tossed him down the well. It was almost like MIB-Locke thought that Desmond *should know* that he intended to toss him down the well, but he wasn't showing any signs of it. So I think MIB-Locke decided that Desmond wasn't going to be a threat after all, and just tossed him down the well (to deal with him later?). So it will definitely be interesting to find out if Desmond knew and was playing possum, or if he was really caught off guard.



DevdogAZ said:


> ... I'm sure that the writers never contemplated what year the ship crashed on the Island when they introduced the dynamite, but then when they realized they had to expand on the backstory of the Black Rock and the dynamite, they realized they couldn't make it any earlier than 1867.


If they had waited until season 2, I'm sure they would've found some leftover "DHARMA TNT" boxes from the Radzinsky days.


----------



## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

stellie93 said:


> Also about the whispers... In the early seasons didn't the whispers mean Smokey wasn't far behind? I think I remember Danielle telling them to run when they hear them. So do the dead people hang out with Smokey?


That's an interesting point, and I think I heard something similar on a podcast, too. If the whispers/dead people are 'trapped' on the island (per Michael) - and MiB is trapped on the island - is it the same thing? Are they interrelated?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

T-Wolves said:


> The method of her dispatch makes me wonder if the actress did something to piss off the writers. It really must've been a slap in the face of the actress (Zuleikha Robinson) to see the script and find out that after all stuff the character had gone though, she was going to die as a joke. I hope Darlton give us some explanation for the way they killed her off.


Perhaps the big mission that she's been training for (protecting the candidates) is something that she'll do as a ghost advising Hurley rather than in a physical body. Maybe that's the only way she'll be immune to MiB. Maybe her character wasn't a dead end after all.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

latrobe7 said:


> Bizarro Libby is hotter than the original. Did she get breast implants in the alt universe?


Coming at it from a different viewpoint I thought Cynthia Watros looked emaciated and unhealthy as opposed to her previous appearances.

Diane


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

I thought she looked just about the same as earlier seasons.


----------



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

They picked a kid who looks a LOT like Jacob to play the mysterious kid.

Some things I noticed: remember a couple episodes ago, when Miles sarcastically said that Hugo was the leader? I chuckled over that memory.

I think Desmond now remembers both timelines. And he knows what to do.

My latest theory on the sideways time? It was Jacob's creation. Somehow, to get off the island, Flocke has to kill all the candidates. I think he'll do it, but at the precise moment they die (or because of how he tries to kill him), the sideways versions will pop in to take their place, keeping Flocke in captivity.


----------



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

If love is such an important part of the series, you know Sun and Jin will play a part, but what about Rose and Bernard? These two couples are the only ones still together. (Des and Penny don't count, 'cause Penny's on a different show. )


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

T-Wolves said:


> The method of her dispatch makes me wonder if the actress did something to piss off the writers. It really must've been a slap in the face of the actress (Zuleikha Robinson) to see the script and find out that after all stuff the character had gone though, she was going to die as a joke.


I wonder if she got a DUI like some of the others?


----------



## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Philosofy said:


> If love is such an important part of the series, you know Sun and Jin will play a part, but what about Rose and Bernard? These two couples are the only ones still together. (Des and Penny don't count, 'cause Penny's on a different show. )


Are Rose & Bernard even together in the sideways timeline? Rose is clearly working and living in LA, but originally they met in Chicago.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Peter000 said:


> Are Rose & Bernard even together in the sideways timeline? Rose is clearly working and living in LA, but originally they met in Chicago.


We saw them together on the plane in "LA X".


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

JYoung said:


> We saw them together on the plane in "LA X".


Oh yeah. Duh.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Anyone else wonder of Desmond living in the hatch for 2 years (or however long it was) and injecting himself with whatever "medicine" that was is why he immune to EM radiation? Was that, too, part of Jacob's master plan?


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Philosofy said:


> If love is such an important part of the series, you know Sun and Jin will play a part, but what about Rose and Bernard? These two couples are the only ones still together. (Des and Penny don't count, 'cause Penny's on a different show. )


Not only that, the Bizarro Penny in FlashForward isn't even faithfull to her love interest husband.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I always figured that when they were time-jumping, they went to the distant past and Locke (it would have to be Locke, wouldn't it?) stepped on a butterfly, which didn't flap its wings in South America, which didn't cause a storm in China, which caused dynamite to be invented a few decades earlier.
> 
> Isn't that the most logical explanation?


Well, at the very least it's a lostical one.


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## robbhimself (Sep 13, 2006)

i had a random thought this morning.. what if when locke got hit by the car and had his near death experience it wasn't locke who came back to the flash sideways, but mib instead, then he'd be free and somehow him trying to stay free would merge the 2 timelines.. longshot, but this show is full of longshots


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

robbhimself said:


> i had a random thought this morning.. what if when locke got hit by the car and had his near death experience it wasn't locke who came back to the flash sideways, but mib instead, then he'd be free and somehow him trying to stay free would merge the 2 timelines.. longshot, but this show is full of longshots


Like most LOST scenarios it's rife with myriad possibilities. I wonder if the injured LAXLocke looked at Ben and 'remembered' him strangling Locke Release 1.0? I think that's where we're headed.


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## ronsch (Sep 7, 2001)

Philosofy said:


> My latest theory on the sideways time? It was Jacob's creation. Somehow, to get off the island, Flocke has to kill all the candidates. I think he'll do it, but at the precise moment they die (or because of how he tries to kill him), the sideways versions will pop in to take their place, keeping Flocke in captivity.


I don't know. Flocke is constantly harping on needing all the candidates to accompany him so he can get off the island. I don't take that as him needing them dead. He told Claire that she could have her way with Kate _after_ Kate helped convince the others to leave with him on the plane. Of course that could just be another lie but he seems to need them _with_ him voluntarily.


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## Jericho Dog (Feb 10, 2006)

I'm beginning to wonder now if all the island stuff actually exists in some sort of 'time bubble' that happened during the original plane flight, like when they hit the turbulence.
So, on the island, we'll end up seeing the island sink, and in the 'other' timeline they will all eventually remember what actually happened.

There was a Star Trek TNG show where Picard got zapped by something and lived an entire lifetime in just a few seconds.
Something like that.
I'm sure someone can verify the episode. (thanks!)

So it's not an alternate timeline, it's the same one. But everything on the island actually happened _during_ the LA timeline, it was just all inside that 'time bubble' as they flew over the island.
Probably created by setting off the bomb.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Jericho Dog said:


> I'm beginning to wonder now if all the island stuff actually exists in some sort of 'time bubble' that happened during the original plane flight, like when they hit the turbulence.
> So, on the island, we'll end up seeing the island sink, and in the 'other' timeline they will all eventually remember what actually happened.
> 
> There was a Star Trek TNG show where Picard got zapped by something and lived an entire lifetime in just a few seconds.
> ...


Too many inconsistencies between the timelines for this to be the case.

In the island timeline, 815 crashes, and then, later, 6 people come back to Los Angeles and tell the world that everyone else is dead. In the sideways timeline, it lands. They can't both have happened.

In the sideways timeline, Jack has a kid who is more than 10 years old. In the main timeline, he doesn't.


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## Jericho Dog (Feb 10, 2006)

aindik said:


> Too many inconsistencies between the timelines for this to be the case.
> 
> In the island timeline, 815 crashes, and then, later, 6 people come back to Los Angeles and tell the world that everyone else is dead. In the sideways timeline, it lands. They can't both have happened.
> 
> In the sideways timeline, Jack has a kid who is more than 10 years old. In the main timeline, he doesn't.


I think that the 'main' timline has been replaced/changed since the bomb incident, and now the 'sideways' timeline we're seeing IS the main timeline. It didn't just change at the flight point, but all the way back to when the bomb went off.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Jericho Dog said:


> I think that the 'main' timline has been replaced/changed since the bomb incident, and now the 'sideways' timeline we're seeing IS the main timeline. It didn't just change at the flight point, but all the way back to when the bomb went off.


And I still suspect that both this view, and the one that one "timeline" follows the other, are wrong; that the truth is more complicated than either.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And I still suspect that both this view, and the one that one "timeline" follows the other, are wrong; that the truth is more complicated than either.


One SciFi type possibility is quantum superposition. Before an event (@quantum scales, not macro scales in our 'real' universe) is observed, quantum theory postulates that ALL physically possible outcomes exist in a state of superposition with the eventual outcome, once the electron/photon whatever is observed, being selected by probability, however THAT occurs. Maybe in Season Six we're seeing a violation where a couple 'simultaneous' variations of the LOST universe outcomes both exist instead of the one outcome allowed. Thus the 'universe' is fractured and needs reconciliation. Whatevah!


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## Jericho Dog (Feb 10, 2006)

philw1776 said:


> One SciFi type possibility is quantum superposition. Before an event (@quantum scales, not macro scales in our 'real' universe) is observed, quantum theory postulates that ALL physically possible outcomes exist in a state of superposition with the eventual outcome, once the electron/photon whatever is observed, being selected by probability, however THAT occurs. Maybe in Season Six we're seeing a violation where a couple 'simultaneous' variations of the LOST universe outcomes both exist instead of the one outcome allowed. Thus the 'universe' is fractured and needs reconciliation. Whatevah!


That would mean that once one is "observed" than the other will collapse.
Whatever "observed" would mean in this case......


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## ronsch (Sep 7, 2001)

Jericho Dog said:


> There was a Star Trek TNG show where Picard got zapped by something and lived an entire lifetime in just a few seconds.
> Something like that.
> I'm sure someone can verify the episode. (thanks!)


The Inner Light - one of my favorites.


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## cthomp (Dec 24, 2001)

Wild theory. What if Desmond ran over Lock so he would be sent to the hospital that Jack works at. Jack would then have a chance to give Lock that second opinion they talked about at the lost luggage desk.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

cthomp said:


> Wild theory. What if Desmond ran over Lock so he would be sent to the hospital that Jack works at. Jack would then have a chance to give Lock that second opinion they talked about at the lost luggage desk.


I think he wants Locke at the hospital, but not to have is back looked at. He wants Locke at the hospital because Jack, Kate, Claire, Jin and Sun are also there.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

The hospital is the new island!


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

aindik said:


> I think he wants Locke at the hospital, but not to have is back looked at. He wants Locke at the hospital because Jack, Kate, Claire, Jin and Sun are also there.


Last I saw, hottie bad girll Kate was NOT @ the Hospital. She & cop Sawyer were in an alley.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

betts4 said:


> I wonder if anyone can show a screen shot of Locke at the very end after he got hit. Did he have the scar he got on the island? I mean, did he have it before he got hit or maybe did it show up as a result of his getting hit....or am I on drugs and it wasn't there at all.


Not sure about your drug use, but Locke had no scar on his eye in the sideways universe/two-niverse.



MickeS said:


> That stood out to me too. I can't come up with a good reason for that. Unless he finally figured out time travel.


Maybe he discovered Just For Men hair color? 



DUDE_NJX said:


> 2) The handicap parking space placement at Locke's school sucks if he needs to cross 2 streets in a wheelchair to get to his spot.


LOL! :up: And for a guy who has been in a wheelchair for a while, he sure struggles to move it forward.



stellie93 said:


> Just because Jack was standing next to Richard when he couldn't die, doesn't mean that Jack can't die, does it? The dynamite fizzled to save Richard, but not necessarily Jack.


Yeah. Ricardus asked Jacob to give him eternal life. I think that Jacob's touch with everybody else doesn't necessarily imply that they cannot die.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Point about Hurley. When he bribes the Doctor in the mental hospital to get to see Libby he says that the rec room looks shabby and could use a donation. In the subsequent scene he meets Libby in the rec room and answering her he states he's never been there. Then how did he know the room was shabby? Universe bleed through?

Also about the rec room. Notice the whiteboard where some residents drew an island surrounded by water with fish and butterflies and menaced by an alligator? Hmmm.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

getreal said:


> Yeah. Ricardus asked Jacob to give him eternal life. I think that Jacob's touch with everybody else doesn't necessarily imply that they cannot die.


IIRC, they can die, they just can't commit suicide. (Including Richard.)


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> Point about Hurley. When he bribes the Doctor in the mental hospital to get to see Libby he says that the rec room looks shabby and could use a donation. In the subsequent scene he meets Libby in the rec room and answering her he states he's never been there. Then how did he know the room was shabby? Universe bleed through?


He could have said that regardless of whether he'd seen the rec room - the point of his statement was to offer a bribe, not to be truthful. (And IIRC, the rec room didn't look shabby at all - it was bright, cheery and had nice equipment.)


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Bananfish said:


> IIRC, they can die, they just can't commit suicide. (Including Richard.)


No, I think A) it's just Richard, and B) he can't die.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> No, I think A) it's just Richard, and B) he can't die.


Hmmmm. I found the below description of the scene with Jack and Richard with the dynamite in the Black Rock. At the time, I took Jack sticking by Richard's side and the fuse blowing out to mean that Jack was in the club with Richard of people who couldn't commit suicide, though I admit the description below is open to other interpretations - e.g., a "Richard can't die" rule would explain it just as easily. (As I recall there was speculation in that episode's thread that perhaps the "no suicide" rule was why Locke couldn't hang himself and needed Ben to do the deed for him, as well as why Sawyer survived his jump out of the plane.)

Richard says that he devoted his life to Jacob who told him he had a plan which he would one day reveal and that he would be a part of. Now that Jacob's dead, *Richard says that *his entire life had no purpose and that *if someone else lights the fuse, then he can die*. *Jack lights the fuse but then sticks around *for a chat.

Richard tells Jack that he should go or he's going to die, but *Jack tells him that he thinks that won't happen*. Jack tells him about what he and Hurley experienced at the lighthouse and that Jacob has been watching him since he was a small child. Jack says that if Jacob went to all the trouble to watch him and bring him to the island, that he's not going to let him die there. Jack closes his eyes as *the spark *approaches the dynamite and then it *goes out at the last moment*. Jack smiles and asks Richard if he wants to try another stick.


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

This show cannot end.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

sushikitten said:


> This show cannot end.


I'll miss it definitely. Part of me will be relieved though because I can stop wishing away my life between episodes.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> Point about Hurley. When he bribes the Doctor in the mental hospital to get to see Libby he says that the rec room looks shabby and could use a donation. In the subsequent scene he meets Libby in the rec room and answering her* he states he's never been there. * Then how did he know the room was shabby? Universe bleed through?
> 
> Also about the rec room. Notice the whiteboard where some residents drew an island surrounded by water with fish and butterflies and menaced by an alligator? Hmmm.


I took him to be saying he had never been to the Santa Rosa institution before, however I think you're over analyzing the line. (easy to do with Lost!)

And the others also point out, even if he had never seen the rec room, he just needed an opening line.

Diane


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

dianebrat said:


> I took him to be saying he had never been to the Santa Rosa institution before, however I think you're over analyzing the line. (easy to do with Lost!)
> 
> And the others also point out, even if he had never seen the rec room, he just needed an opening line.


Plus, he was there right then! All he had to do was look around.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

philw1776 said:


> Point about Hurley. When he bribes the Doctor in the mental hospital to get to see Libby he says that the rec room looks shabby and could use a donation. In the subsequent scene he meets Libby in the rec room and answering her he states he's never been there. Then how did he know the room was shabby? Universe bleed through?
> 
> Also about the rec room. Notice the whiteboard where some residents drew an island surrounded by water with fish and butterflies and menaced by an alligator? Hmmm.


What! No polar bears?

I thought he told the doctor he looked in the rec room on the way to his office. He told Libby he'd never been in it. Makes sense to me.

I found it hard to believe that the "man of the year" who is a billionaire can't get a date. Regardless of how fat he is, he should be fighting women off with a stick. Now if he didn't date because he thought they were just after his money......

There was a pause when Jack met Flocke for the first time. Since Smokey spent a lot of time as Christian, I wonder if Jack could sense his father in there at all? Are the people formerly impersonated by Smokey part of the whispering crowd?


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

stellie93 said:


> There was a pause when Jack met Flocke for the first time. Since Smokey spent a lot of time as Christian, I wonder if Jack could sense his father in there at all? Are the people formerly impersonated by Smokey part of the whispering crowd?


Possibly, or it could be just because the last time Jack saw Locke he was toes up and wearing his Dad's shoes.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

sushikitten said:


> This show cannot end.


This.


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> I found it hard to believe that the "man of the year" who is a billionaire can't get a date. Regardless of how fat he is, he should be fighting women off with a stick. Now if he didn't date because he thought they were just after his money......


Even then, he shouldn't've been surprised at Libby approaching him, or being pretty. But I suppose they could have added a few lines of dialogue to clear this up (him being wary of golddiggers) and we can just imagine they're on the cutting room floor, so it's not the kind of continuity or plausibility error that really impacts things.


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## mmilton80 (Jul 28, 2005)

Should we read into the Smoke Monster currently being over Europe?


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

mmilton80 said:


> Should we read into the Smoke Monster currently being over Europe?


:up:


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)




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## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

Did anyone notice that Desmond's license plate as he pulled away from the beach is different than the license plate on the car when he ran over Locke?


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

He did not tell the Doc he looked at the rec room on the way to his office. Not that any of this is likely significant.

Back to the colorfull drawing of the island on the rec room whiteboard. It's quirky subtexture like this playfull item by the writers that makes watching LOST so enjoyable. I think they really love their jobs and revel in being creative and clever.


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## avery (May 29, 2006)

mqpickles said:


> I'll miss it definitely. Part of me will be relieved though because I can stop wishing away my life between episodes.


 I confess to being similarly guilty!


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## mmilton80 (Jul 28, 2005)

Fool Me Twice said:


>


This is awesome.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Philosofy said:


> They picked a kid who looks a LOT like Jacob to play the mysterious kid.


I would love for the kid to be the young smoke monster as he came to the island (with a corresponding great story yet to be told)...but the resemblance to Jacob is too uncanny to be anything but planned...

fwiw: I don't think Sayid is now a zombie. I just think that he is a man without hope or anything to live for. He gave up the inner fight to be "good" and has given in to taking and following evil orders without emotions or hesitation. He is a man with a huge faith crisis but can be redeemed eventually given the right circumstances...


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Anubys said:


> fwiw: I don't think Sayid is now a zombie. I just think that he is a man without hope or anything to live for. He gave up the inner fight to be "good" and has given in to taking and following evil orders without emotions or hesitation. He is a man with a huge faith crisis but can be redeemed eventually given the right circumstances...


Yah but the term 'Sayid zombie' is so wicked pissah. 
I'm pessimistic but I share your hopes for my man Sayid, a favorite character, well written and well cast. It took me a while to give up irrational hope that another favorite Locke wasn't really dead. Now Michael, on the other hand...


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## amory (Jan 24, 2002)

Fool Me Twice said:


>


Don't know how long it took you to put that together, but it was well worth the effort. My whole family of Lost fans all had a good laugh, and my wife wants to use it as her wallpaper.

Thanks!


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Alpinemaps said:


> Did anyone notice that Desmond's license plate as he pulled away from the beach is different than the license plate on the car when he ran over Locke?


I hadn't noticed the different plates, but since the car from the beach went into the drink, it makes perfect sense that he would have a different rental car a day or two later, wouldn't he?


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

Fool Me Twice said:


>


I don't get it.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

MonsterJoe said:


> I don't get it.


Black cloud covering all of Europe due to the Iceland volcano is actually the Smoke Monster.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

MonsterJoe said:


> I don't get it.


After eviscerating Illana's folks as the Smoke Monstah, MiB in unLocke form said those words.
Graphic is of Icelandic volcano's smoke spreading over Europe


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

aha! I didn't connect the volcano reference, is all. thanks


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

amory said:


> Don't know how long it took you to put that together, but it was well worth the effort. My whole family of Lost fans all had a good laugh, and my wife wants to use it as her wallpaper.
> 
> Thanks!


Thanks! If took me many seconds to copy the link from another site and paste it here.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

18 hours 12 minutes left!

Heads up everyone - this week is new (as in, 18 hours 12 minutes from now is new), but I heard next week is a rerun of the Richard episode.

Jeff sleep now.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Fool Me Twice said:


>




It's a SMOKE monster not an ash monster. Ash REPELS the smoke monster.

DUH.

What kind of Lost fans ARE you guys??


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Peter000 said:


> It's a SMOKE monster not an ash monster. Ash REPELS the smoke monster.
> 
> DUH.
> 
> What kind of Lost fans ARE you guys??


You think MiB isn't clever enough to disguise himself as a cloud of ash? How else is he going to travel across the world? Wait until the Vatican can't elect a pope?


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> You think MiB isn't clever enough to disguise himself as a cloud of ash? How else is he going to travel across the world? Wait until the Vatican can't elect a pope?


It's not a matter of "clever." MIB just doesn't have the ability to disguise himself as ash. If he did, Jacob would have surrounded himself with the MIB to protect himself, and what would have happened then?? Cork. Bottle. UNSTOPPED. Evil. Rampant.

Geez. THINK about it. Use your HEAD man!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

But how can you tell the difference between ash and black smoke from a friggin' SATELLITE PHOTO?!?

And YOU'RE telling ME to think! Sheesh...

OK, it's official, there is WAY too much time between episodes.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> OK, it's official, there is WAY too much time between episodes.


I agree...we should all just record them and watch them all at once after the Finale


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> 18 hours 12 minutes left!
> 
> Heads up everyone - this week is new (as in, 18 hours 12 minutes from now is new), but I heard next week is a rerun of the Richard episode.
> 
> Jeff sleep now.


I dunno about a repeat of that particular episode, but there IS a break for the week. And I'm fine with that, it creates a bit of anticipation, plus in the event I'm too tired to watch (driving home from Humboldt that day), I'm safe. 

Greg


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## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

getreal said:


> I hadn't noticed the different plates, but since the car from the beach went into the drink, it makes perfect sense that he would have a different rental car a day or two later, wouldn't he?


I wasn't clear earlier. I was talking about the car that Desmond was driving when he was watching Hurley and Libby. That car had a different license plate than the car at the school when he ran over Locke.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Anubys said:


> I agree...we should all just record them and watch them all at once after the Finale


Not after. Leading up to. The finale is on a Sunday evening in May, so there's no reason you couldn't watch the final 6-7 eps you won't have seen at that point on Sunday afternoon, so that you finish the series along with everyone else that evening.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Alpinemaps said:


> I wasn't clear earlier. I was talking about the car that Desmond was driving when he was watching Hurley and Libby. That car had a different license plate than the car at the school when he ran over Locke.


Well Des does appear to be pretty hard on his cars, and I gathered they were company provided..


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> Not after. Leading up to. The finale is on a Sunday evening in May, so there's no reason you couldn't watch the final 6-7 eps you won't have seen at that point on Sunday afternoon, so that you finish the series along with everyone else that evening.


ah...didn't know that...

it makes it much easier for everyone to follow my plan...who's with me?!


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## ronsch (Sep 7, 2001)

Anubys said:


> ah...didn't know that...
> 
> it makes it much easier for everyone to follow my plan...who's with me?!


Heck No! This is one of the few shows that I watch the same night that it's on and only because this is the last season. Don't want to end up getting to September before I see the end.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Alpinemaps said:


> I wasn't clear earlier. I was talking about the car that Desmond was driving when he was watching Hurley and Libby. That car had a different license plate than the car at the school when he ran over Locke.





dianebrat said:


> Well Des does appear to be pretty hard on his cars, and I gathered they were company provided..


And if one is about to run someone down in public, it might behoove them to switch cars (or at least license plates).


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Anubys said:


> I agree...we should all just record them and watch them all at once after the Finale


No and no.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

JYoung said:


> And if one is about to run someone down in public, it might behoove them to switch cars (or at least license plates).


Good point. I'm going to write this down for future reference.


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

gchance said:


> I dunno about a repeat of that particular episode, but there IS a break for the week. And I'm fine with that, it creates a bit of anticipation, plus in the event I'm too tired to watch (driving home from Humboldt that day), I'm safe.
> 
> Greg


jkeegan is right. The schedule is:
This week - The Last Recruit
Next week - Rerun of Ab Aeterno
Then all speed ahead to the finale. Titles are up at TV.com with no plot spoilers if you're interested.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

tewcewl said:


> jkeegan is right. The schedule is:
> This week - The Last Recruit
> Next week - Rerun of Ab Aeterno
> Then all speed ahead to the finale. Titles are up at TV.com with no plot spoilers if you're interested.


Lost rerun are getting out of hand.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

My wife left this morning for 9 days away... next week's episode is a rerun but can I possibly wait for her to get back before watching tonight's Lost?!?! Oh the humanity!


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

JYoung said:


> And if one is about to run someone down in public, it might behoove them to switch cars (or at least license plates).


Yes, switching license plates is BRILLIANT! Move the rear plate to the front and the front plate to the rear. They'll never suspect a thing!! Mwah-ha-hahh!!!


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

madscientist said:


> My wife left this morning for 9 days away... next week's episode is a rerun but can I possibly wait for her to get back before watching tonight's Lost?!?! Oh the humanity!


Just do what I do. I always watch the first airing alone, because my wife invariably goes to bed at 9:30 and doesn't want to just watch a half hour. Then the next day or so when she watches, I watch again. It's not like I mind.

Greg


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