# Lost -- ep The 23rd Psalm -- 1/11/06



## northmoor (Feb 9, 2005)

The return of Lost.

I saw Evangeline Lilly on the Regis Live show this morning, and while she wouldn't give much away, she did say that we'll find out tonight what the "animal" or thing is that devours people on the island and causes the trees to sway.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Little early for this, don't you think?


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## northmoor (Feb 9, 2005)

JYoung said:


> Little early for this, don't you think?


No. Isn't that obvious? If I thought it was a "little early for this," then I wouldn't have posted it.

Kind of a stupid question, don't you think? (sorry, I couldn't resist.)


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

JYoung said:


> Little early for this, don't you think?


If you're asking northmoor, than "no," it's not too early.

If you're asking the general public, I will speak for them. Yes, it's too early.


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## aeedee (Oct 16, 2003)

does anyone know where i can get (or if anyone has) the last nine episodes of season 2, hope you guys don't mind the question, just started watching lost and i really wanna catch up


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## canonelan2 (May 11, 2001)

aeedee said:


> does anyone know where i can get (or if anyone has) the last nine episodes of season 2, hope you guys don't mind the question, just started watching lost and i really wanna catch up


iTunes


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## TeeSee (Jan 16, 2003)

northmoor said:


> No. Isn't that obvious? If I thought it was a "little early for this," then I wouldn't have posted it.
> 
> Kind of a stupid question, don't you think? (sorry, I couldn't resist.)





> Timing of official threads:
> Do not start the official show thread more than 1 hour before the air date in the earliest market. The new thread should be about the new show.
> 
> There is no prize in being the first to start the thread, and beginning it too early leads to pages of guesses about what might happen, discussions of what happened last week - all of which should should be contained in last weeks official thread. Bump that thread instead for pre-show speculation, and start the official thread fresh.


 http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=271608

Sorry, I couldn't resist.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

While you guys are arguing about the earliness can someone tell me if this is going to be pre-empted tonight for a President Bush speech?


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## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

mwhip said:


> While you guys are arguing about the earliness can someone tell me if this is going to be pre-empted tonight for a President Bush speech?


If it does It will be a major factor in my next votet! (IBTL)


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

mwhip said:


> While you guys are arguing about the earliness can someone tell me if this is going to be pre-empted tonight for a President Bush speech?


I haven't seen anything about a Bush speech, but if there is one, I would assume that the clip show from 8-9 would suffer....They probably wouldn't want to mess with the 9-10 slot for the main show


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## yaddayaddayadda (Apr 8, 2003)

AstroDad said:


> If it does It will be a major factor in my next votet! (IBTL)


So you're not voting for Bush for president next election? That'll show him


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## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

yaddayaddayadda said:


> So you're not voting for Bush for president next election? That'll show him


Nope, I am voting for Bartlett!


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

AstroDad said:


> Nope, I am voting for Bartlett!


Hey!! Me too!!


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## northmoor (Feb 9, 2005)

okay, okay, ... I posted this to bring attention to what evangeline lilly said this morning about tonight's episode. The post was certainly about tonight's episode. I thought that posting early would let more people see what evangeline said. Waiting and posting it an hour before the show would have defeated the purpose, and there was no last week's official thread in this case to post in. 

I don't really care if this is an "official episode" thread or not. 

For all you rules-policeman-wannabes. .... please report me. 

Perhaps you can get a monitor to change the thread title if its so important to you. (I tried but it wouldn't let me.)

One of you be sure to start the "official" episode thread later today.


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## 4inziksych (Mar 1, 2003)

Dang it - there's NO PRIZE for starting the thread. I guess I can stop watching my mailbox now.


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## jwjody (Dec 7, 2002)

northmoor said:


> okay, okay, ... I posted this to bring attention to what evangeline lilly said this morning about tonight's episode. The post was certainly about tonight's episode. I thought that posting early would let more people see what evangeline said. Waiting and posting it an hour before the show would have defeated the purpose, and there was no last week's official thread in this case to post in.
> 
> I don't really care if this is an "official episode" thread or not.
> 
> ...


I just would have preferred if you spoilerized what happens tonight.

J


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## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

FWIW, there are links to four video clips from 23rd Psalm posted at The Fuselage:

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=31655


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## Sir_Q (Jun 27, 2002)

jwjody said:


> I just would have preferred if you spoilerized what happens tonight.
> 
> J


Thought talk about current episode didn't need be spoilerized?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Sir_Q said:


> Thought talk about current episode didn't need be spoilerized?


Wouldn't have needed to be if the thread wasn't started so early. 

I think most people view it as a reasonable courtesy not to post untagged spoilers before something actually airs. Technically, no, the posts about this episode shouldn't have to be tagged, but also technically, it shouldn't have been started yet. <shrug> Not a big deal to me, it wasn't a real specific spoiler, but I can understand others wanting to avoid it.

BTW, the Official Lost Podcast is back, and it downloaded last night.



> Description:
> Take a soundtour of the Lost scoring stage with composer Michael Giacchino, as he introduces the musicians and the instruments that make up the unique sound of Lost.


Hopefully, they will also return to doing commentary podcasts from the producers. Those usually come down the following Monday...
http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/podcasts/index.html


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Holy smoke! What the heck was that black cloud Eko just stared down?


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## crowfan (Dec 27, 2003)

Looked like it had pictures/faces in it....


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## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

WTF????? I never watch live - but am tonight. 
and I am in shock! In shock at the moment. 

Can I post now? 'Cause I had to...


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

anyone see what was in the flashes when you went through the smoke? wish i had hd, almost looks like faces...just cant make them out when i pause on it

edit: hahaha 9:39 bam...


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## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

Okay, guess I can. Wow - that was freaky!! It did look like it had somethings in it... and then it just curled up and went away. 

What the bloody hell was that?!


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

anyone see the house on haunted hill remake? kind of reminded me of that thing at the end of that movie


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

why is there blood on your Jesus stick?


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## ngsmith (Jan 18, 2002)

Quite a backup stash hidden away.


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## yaddayaddayadda (Apr 8, 2003)

SoBelle0 said:


> Okay, guess I can. Wow - that was freaky!! It did look like it had somethings in it... and then it just curled up and went away.
> 
> What the bloody hell was that?!


From what I could make out - the faces/objects in the smoke were Ecko's brother's church, the woman who was selling the statues outside....Maybe Ecko's sins?


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## crowfan (Dec 27, 2003)

sgsmith said:


> Quite a backup stash hidden away.


Is that a stash, or empty statues that Charlie has emptied out? If he's been using this whole time, it would explain the lack of withdrawl symptoms...


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## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

yaddayaddayadda said:


> From what I could make out - the faces/objects in the smoke were Ecko's brother's church, the woman who was selling the statues outside....Maybe Ecko's sins?


Interesting thought!! Wow, that whole thing just really threw me for a loop. I haven't yet been able to digest the rest of the show.

Except - Walt txting Michael. Did I miss something? was he expecting the message?


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## LifeIsABeach (Feb 28, 2001)

SoBelle0 said:


> Interesting thought!! Wow, that whole thing just really threw me for a loop. I haven't yet been able to digest the rest of the show.
> 
> Except - Walt txting Michael. Did I miss something? was he expecting the message?


Walt had talked to Michael through the computer in the last scene of the last episode before the reruns started, so I guess Michael was hoping it would happen again.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

crowfan said:


> Looked like it had pictures/faces in it....


From what I could see, there were images of Eko as a boy, the old man that he shot, 
the Virgian Mary, the guy that stopped Eko from getting on the plane, and Eko holding his brother after he got shot.


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## crowfan (Dec 27, 2003)

I watched it live in HD. This is the first ep that has aired since I got HD. All I have to say is......DAMN.

Anyway, I went back to my TiVo to watch the smoke monster scene in slo-mo....and apparently I had pulled out the S-video cable, so the TiVo recorded 1:02 of black screen. 

D/Ling the torrent now....


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

AstroDad said:


> Nope, I am voting for Bartlett!


[Hijack]I got my wife a coffee mug for Christmas that says "Martin Sheen is MY president!"

I once saw a President Bartlett campaign sign on ebay. I could kick myself for not buying it!
[/Hijack]


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

davezatz said:


> Holy smoke! What the heck was that black cloud Eko just stared down?


My guess is... Holy smoke!


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## Todd (Oct 7, 1999)

Wow, crazy episode. The background of Ecko wasn't quite what I expected either.


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## El Gabito (Mar 11, 2004)

That was another GRRRReat episode, IMO. Loved every minute of it. WTF is that smoke?!


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## JadeWolf07 (Jan 1, 2004)

I thought the episode was great, and the backstory was very well done.

Was anyone else heavily reminded of City of God during the beginning of the flashback though??


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## RegBarc (Feb 18, 2003)

El Gabito said:


> That was another GRRRReat episode, IMO. Loved every minute of it. WTF is that smoke?!


There's a theory on the fanboy websites, but I'll spoilerize it for now even though it's just speculation:


Spoiler



Some are saying it's nanotechnology of some sort, which would explain the color and image capabilities. Of course, it doesn't explain the levetation or explosions, but it's actual more plausible than most other things I have heard.


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## flyersfan (Nov 11, 2002)

The images in the smoke were basically as described above.

I can't decide which theory I like about the smoke letting him live. Either it read his mind and sensed he was ultimately a good person, or it showed him all his fears/transgressions and he had the fortitude to stand up to (and own) them instead of running away.

Did anyone notice they rewrote the history of Sayid and Charlie finding the plane? Sayid did NOT show him the heroin in the original episode. That was rewritten.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

flyersfan said:


> Did anyone notice they rewrote the history of Sayid and Charlie finding the plane? Sayid did NOT show him the heroin in the original episode. That was rewritten.


Actually, it was Charlie who rewrote the history.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Sledgeweb has some screencaps of the faces in the smoke here.


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## flyersfan (Nov 11, 2002)

Yea, unfortunately I got all excited over nothing... I completely misremembered the plane scene from last season's finale. Oh well. Old age gets us all, I guess.


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## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

Anyone ever read Prey by Michael Crichton?

(sounds off topic, but it isn't)


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

Great episode. Interesting to find out both Eko and the plane's background.

Now, the question is how did a small plane from Nigeria end up on an island in the South Pacific?

Lost-Media doesn't have screen caps of the smoke up yet, but I noticed that the Dharma people can't spell their own name...

http://lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season2/2x10/1/23psalm-cap129.jpg


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## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

i can't believe thay wasted a bottle of ranch


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

AstroDad said:


> Anyone ever read Prey by Michael Crichton?
> 
> (sounds of topic, but it isn't)


Yes. That did cross my mind...


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

I believe this question has been raised, but it's been so long I don't remember if it was ever answered: was it ever confirmed that Eko was on flight 815? From what I recall, the earliest we saw him was on the beach, helping people get to shore. Obviously, he wasn't on the yellow plane as I remember some speculated, but I don't think we really know what plane he actually was on.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

AstroDad said:


> i can't believe thay wasted a bottle of ranch


lol. I was angry about that too. Save the condiments. Shoot a stump.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

Are we to presume that the smoke is what Locke saw when he was dragged underground? IIRC he said it was "beautiful". Wonder what it showed him?

And what are we to make of the fact similarity between the words "smoke" and "Locke", and the fact that "Eko" is the last three letters of "smoke" spelled backwards? Hmmm....


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

getbak said:


> Lost-Media doesn't have screen caps of the smoke up yet, but I noticed that the Dharma people can't spell their own name...


Or rather, the show flunky whose job it was to make up the cheesy looking label and print it out on the inkjet printer or hotel fax machine or whatever was, well, a flunky.

As long as we're on spelling errors, anyone else catch the subtitle "Stop. Don't take anymore of the children." during the scene in Nigeria? Should have been the noun phrase "any more", not the adverb "anymore".

Tsk tsk.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

bdlucas said:


> Are we to presume that the smoke is what Locke saw when he was dragged underground? IIRC he said it was "beautiful". Wonder what it showed him?
> 
> And what are we to make of the fact similarity between the words "smoke" and "Locke", and the fact that "Eko" is the last three letters of "smoke" spelled backwards? Hmmm....


With Eko, maybe you have a point. With Locke, they used the name of a real philosopher to capture the character's essence.


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## scoblitz (Aug 20, 2005)

Why did Michael keep the messages from "Walt" a Secret? When we saw him talking to Locke my wife and I both just stopped and looked at each other wondering why they weren't all gathered around the computer, or at least talking about it.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

scoblitz said:


> Why did Michael keep the messages from "Walt" a Secret? When we saw him talking to Locke my wife and I both just stopped and looked at each other wondering why they weren't all gathered around the computer, or at least talking about it.


Guess you missed the orientation film. It was required attendance, I believe. 

They had been warned against using the computer for any purpose other than entering the numbers, such as as a communication device. And some of the islanders (particularly Locke) are taking the whole hatch thang seriously.


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## BrandonSi (Jun 5, 2003)

Wow.. actually the first episode I watched (after revelations) but damn.. I'm hooked.. anywho.. i enhanced a couple of those eko/smoke screencaps someone posted.. definitely something there.. can't wait to see what it means.

Screen Cap #1

Screen Cap #2


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## scoblitz (Aug 20, 2005)

bdlucas said:


> Guess you missed the orientation film. It was required attendance, I believe.
> 
> They had been warned against using the computer for any purpose other than entering the numbers, such as as a communication device. And some of the islanders (particularly Locke) are taking the whole hatch thang seriously.


no - I saw it. I don't remember that Michael saw it though...


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## mitkraft (Feb 21, 2003)

AstroDad said:


> i can't believe thay wasted a bottle of ranch


HEHE, you beat me to it. I was going to say the same thing. I thought it right way...even before they shot it I thought, if that thing isn't empty I'm going to gripe about it. Must be a Houston thing...Don't be messin with my ranch! What the hell am I supposed to eat my chicken wings with now?

I saw Fool Me Twice "me to" that also...are you from the south?


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

BrandonSi said:


> Wow.. actually the first episode I watched (after revelations) but damn.. I'm hooked.. anywho.. i enhanced a couple of those eko/smoke screencaps someone posted.. definitely something there.. can't wait to see what it means.
> 
> Screen Cap #1
> 
> Screen Cap #2


Zowie, your right! Did a little enhancing of my own and found something _very_ interesting.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

scoblitz said:


> Why did Michael keep the messages from "Walt" a Secret? When we saw him talking to Locke my wife and I both just stopped and looked at each other wondering why they weren't all gathered around the computer, or at least talking about it.


That's a major annoyance to me, that the character's first tendencies are to keep new information a secret, rather that share it with the group, which would probably be far more useful to them--though not to the writers, who have to create suspense and tension somehow.

Edit to respond to another post: Even though the orientation film told them not to use the computer for any other purpose, I can't see any sane person in that situation objecting to doing just that. Locke would object of course, but his sanity is questionable.

This show, imho, is far better at creating a sense of place and mood, than in creating realistic character interactions, which the producers believe are the source of the show's success. I disagree with the producers there. There are some scenes in some episodes that are very moving, but just as often, the dialogue is no better than soap opera quality and the characters predictable.

It's the mystery and mood of the island, along the unraveling of characters' backstories (the plot, not necessarily character development) that has made Lost a success. Those times when the writer's manage to tie character development to the plot in an exciting and insightful way are pure gold ("Walkabout" being the series masterpiece), but they are rare.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

mitkraft said:


> HEHE, you beat me to it. I was going to say the same thing. I thought it right way...even before they shot it I thought, if that thing isn't empty I'm going to gripe about it. Must be a Houston thing...Don't be messin with my ranch! What the hell am I supposed to eat my chicken wings with now?
> 
> I saw Fool Me Twice "me to" that also...are you from the south?


I don't even like ranch, but in their situation any spices, seasonings or condiments would be precious. If I was on that island, I'd be pissed if someone was destroying any food items.


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

Fool Me Twice said:


> I don't even like ranch, but in their situation any spices, seasonings or condiments would be precious.


Perhaps this will motivate them to develop more sophisticated sailing resources, establish trade routes to the east, maybe even eventually sail west to reach the east. A microcosmic recreation of mankind's initiation of a world community from genetic memory! Perhaps that's the whole point of the series!

Sorry, it's late. Didn't much care for the episode and was looking for a boost here. Glad most of you liked it, but I'm unconvinced.


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

I may have missed a crucial scene (I really have to stop playing online poker while watching huge TV shows), but did they establish with certainty that Charlie was using again after he discovered the drugs on the plane?

Sure he's been a little hyper in some of the past eps, but tonight he said 'It made me feel safe to have them around' and it reminded me of a former alcoholic that keeps around a bottle just to prove that he could resist temptation.

Of course, the final scene kind of contradicts that theory.


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

Good episode.

Michael starts IMing on the ol' Apple II (BTW, who types "O.K." instead of "OK" these days?), then Jack comes in, sits down, and talks to Michael for a while, and then Jack walks around to see that the screen is blank.

Why is the screen blank?

Some possibilities:

A. Some kind of screen saver kicked in, or after some time the screen blanked on its own.

B. Michael blanked the screen somehow (either turning down the brightness knob on that ancient CRT, or by surreptitiously pressing Enter enough times to scroll the text off the screen).

C. There was never any text on the screen, and Michael is hallucinating -- seeing what he wants to see.

C would be interesting, but I guess A is what we're expected to think.


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## smickola (Nov 17, 2004)

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> Good episode.
> 
> Michael starts IMing on the ol' Apple II (BTW, who types "O.K." instead of "OK" these days?), then Jack comes in, sits down, and talks to Michael for a while, and then Jack walks around to see that the screen is blank.
> 
> ...


My guess is C. To me Michael's body language seemed to indicate he was trying to hide the screen from Jack. Not that Michael is hallucinating...but that Michael is the only one who can see the screen on the text. What are the odds that Walt was just waiting around to see if someone would IM him? The machine is giving Michael what he wants to see.

Did anybody catch what the final line that Walt wrote was before Jack interrupted? Was Walt saying "you have to come get me?"


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

smickola said:


> My guess is C. To me Michael's body language seemed to indicate he was trying to hide the screen from Jack. Not that Michael is hallucinating...but that Michael is the only one who can see the screen on the text. What are the odds that Walt was just waiting around to see if someone would IM him? The machine is giving Michael what he wants to see.
> 
> Did anybody catch what the final line that Walt wrote was before Jack interrupted? Was Walt saying "you have to come get me?"


My first thoughts after seeing the blank screen was that only Michael could see it. Much like Jack saw his father several times.


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## Grumpy Pants (Jul 1, 2002)

Alt+Tab ya dummies!


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

In HD, you can clearly see the faces in the smoke. They are his brother, the woman selling statue, maybe his mother, the man with the gold teeth, and some scenes of his brother getting shot.

My guess is the smoke reads the minds and determines if you are "good" or "bad". Whether it takes good or bad people I don't know yet. From what the guy who infiltrated the tailies said, my guess is good people. Maybe the others are "feeding" the smoke monster good people?


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

What about the explosions when Eko's smoke entity appeared? Why explosions?

I wonder who did worse things for the longest times, Sayid or Eko.


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## El Gabito (Mar 11, 2004)

Grumpy Pants said:


> Alt+Tab ya dummies!


I was thinking cls


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

bdlucas said:


> Are we to presume that the smoke is what Locke saw when he was dragged underground? IIRC he said it was "beautiful". Wonder what it showed him?


The way they handled the smoke scene last night seemed deliberately to be duplicating the scene where Locke first saw the monster.

i.e., when Locke first saw the monster all we saw in that scene was from the monster's point of view... the monster approaching Lock from above and then looming above him staring down at Locke while he just stares back at it and sort of smiles.

With Eko, it was done the same way... as the monster approaches Eko it's again all through the monster's point of view. The difference, though, is that while in Locke's scene we got a cut-to-commerical, in Eko's scene they kept going and instead just cut away from the monster's POV to instead swing the camera around and show the monster itself.

Very slick.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

I thought this was a pretty boring episode actually.

The smoke was cool but only lasted a few seconds.

As for the computer screen, I assumed Michael just cleared the screen somehow and they didn't show us until the end to build up the "will Jack see it?!?" suspense. But I've been wrong before with this show.


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## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> Good episode.
> 
> Michael starts IMing on the ol' Apple II (BTW, who types "O.K." instead of "OK" these days?), then Jack comes in, sits down, and talks to Michael for a while, and then Jack walks around to see that the screen is blank.
> 
> Why is the screen blank?


There are other possibilities. Most notably, that the Others have the ability to observe part or all of the bunker, likely through hidden cameras. This would make sense, as the Dharma people would likely want to observe what was happening in Station 3. Thus when Michael's there, "Walt" talks with him; when someone else is there, the communication is cut off.

So I do accept this is not a hallucination and Michael is seeing real communication.

But is it Walt? We didn't catch the end of his last sentence, but he did ask, "Are you alone?" Why would Walt care? Why would he waste time saying that instead of asking for help? I'm not sure this is Walt, but either a) a trap, b) another social test a la push the button 108 minutes, or c) both. It also suggests that if the Others can observe the bunker, they can't see everything.


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## rizzlebizzle (Oct 14, 2005)

It seemed like Eko knew it was coming no? How he wanted Charlie to climb the tree. He generally just looked nervous or like he was waiting for something to come.

Then he just sort of dismissed the whole thing and moved toward the plane...

Just thought it was strange behavior.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Charlie got a raw deal. Claire threw his stuff in the sand and kicked him out the neighborhood when they weren't even dating.


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## itsmeitsmeitsme (Nov 13, 2003)

I think Eko was nervous because he knew if they found the plane he would also find his dead brother.


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## bigcb37 (Jun 14, 2002)

So...science or faith? 

Does anyone still thing there is a scientific explanation to everthing on the island after the smoke?

I think it would be tough to argue yes...


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## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

Does anyone else think there is a "white smoke monster" as well that we have yet to see?

Maybe that's what Locke saw. Cause if they saw the same monster and it spared them both, it means they are more similar than different and from the first time they interacted, I thought for sure Locke and Eko would be tangling at some point down the road...

Interesting with Charlie stashing the drugs. I think it just shows he's not over his addiction. People who went hungry as children have been known to stash away food as adults. Although, he did sound high on the beach when he was talking with Jin. Maybe he is using again.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> Charlie got a raw deal. Claire threw his stuff in the sand and kicked him out the neighborhood when they weren't even dating.


I think Claire new they weren't dating. But not so sure Charlie was aware of that. Or if he was aware, he liked to at least *pretend* they were dating.


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## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> What about the explosions when Eko's smoke entity appeared? Why explosions?


All I know is those explosions statled everyone in my household, including the cat.  Talk about unexpected!

I thought this was a good episode, but I didn't notice any faces in the smoke (even in HD). Guess I'm more into looking at the characters than the special effects.

I wondered about the screen going black when Jack looked at it. Certainly not a computer expert, but I don't remember old computers having any kind of screen saver.

I don't believe Charlie has been dipping into his heroin stash at all. I agree with whoever said he just likes to have it around like a recovering alcoholic.

Really enjoyed the scene with Kate and Sawyer and how she was proved right by everyone's reactions to him, when she told him "everyone loves you now." Guess almost dying has cleansed his past sins. It was also quite obvious Kate and Sawyer are getting a lot closer and Jack noticed that too.

Cheryl


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## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

speedcouch said:


> Really enjoyed the scene with Kate and Sawyer and how she was proved right by everyone's reactions to him, when she told him "everyone loves you now." Guess almost dying has cleansed his past sins. It was also quite obvious Kate and Sawyer are getting a lot closer and Jack noticed that too.
> Cheryl


The whole Sawyer is liked by everyone now seemed kind of forced to me. There was no reason for anyone to start acting like that. He's always been a prick and if anything, I would think some people on the island would have rather seen him gone. And Kate's behavior towards him makes no sense considering her "confession" to him from the horse episode.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

I thought it was excellent. At the second or third commercial break I was like "I can;t believe it is half over already.

I am also starting to think that maybe Michael is imagining the communication with Walt.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

cheesesteak said:


> What about the explosions when Eko's smoke entity appeared? Why explosions?


The security system has always ripped trees out of the ground when it approaches. I suspect there is some component of it that is underground. When Locke was being dragged into the hole, there was a mechanical cranking sound. Why would a black cloud make a mechanical cranking sound? Looking back to that episode, the black cloud was definitely hurt by the dynamite being thrown down the hole.


----------



## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

So far, the two 'men of faith' have stared down the 'security system' and survived. What happens when a man of science, or someone who does not believe stares it down.....


----------



## smickola (Nov 17, 2004)

speedcouch said:


> Really enjoyed the scene with Kate and Sawyer and how she was proved right by everyone's reactions to him, when she told him "everyone loves you now." Guess almost dying has cleansed his past sins. It was also quite obvious Kate and Sawyer are getting a lot closer and Jack noticed that too.
> 
> Cheryl


What I noticed out of this was that Sawyer seemed to be irritated by the idea that "everyone loves" him now...I think he much preferred being the "bad boy!"


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

Paperboy2003 said:


> So far, the two 'men of faith' have stared down the 'security system' and survived. What happens when a man of science, or someone who does not believe stares it down.....


What happened to Greg Grunberg in the pilot or Shannon in Boone's dream... they get torn to shreds.


----------



## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

mitkraft said:


> Don't be messin with my ranch! What the hell am I supposed to eat my chicken wings with now?


Bleu cheese dressing, like God intended.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Why is everyone assuming Charlie may be using again and that it was _his_ stash?

That hiding location looked like it was out in the jungle where the plane was. For all we know, maybe it was Eko's "stash" to keep it away from everyone else, and Charlie was "returning" it to Eko. It was Eko who gave another statue back to Charlie, so maybe Charlie is "returning" the favor as he now knows he can face his demons....if Eko can, maybe Charlie can.

Also, one thought for the "black smoke" IMHO could be death, the shadow of death, etc., as the verses in *Psalm 23*:



> 1 The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want.
> 2 He makes me lie down in green pastures,
> he leads me beside quiet waters,
> 
> ...


For that matter (certainly not a Smeek for this thread, don't know if it has been mentioned in the past or not), but has anyone else looked closely at the Psalms that make up the other "numbers" to see if they are "in line" with plot points? Granted, this could be very coincidental as clearly the writers/producers have established a biblical/god-like tone to the story line..........

Psalm 4:



> 1 Answer me when I call to you,
> O my righteous God.
> Give me relief from my distress;
> be merciful to me and hear my prayer.
> ...


*

Psalm 8:




1 O LORD, our Lord, 
how majestic is your name in all the earth! 
You have set your glory 
above the heavens. 
2 From the lips of children and infants 
you have ordained praise  
because of your enemies, 
to silence the foe and the avenger.

3 When I consider your heavens, 
the work of your fingers, 
the moon and the stars, 
which you have set in place,

4 what is man that you are mindful of him, 
the son of man that you care for him?

5 You made him a little lower than the heavenly beings [c] 
and crowned him with glory and honor.

6 You made him ruler over the works of your hands; 
you put everything under his feet:

7 all flocks and herds, 
and the beasts of the field,

8 the birds of the air, 
and the fish of the sea, 
all that swim the paths of the seas.

9 O LORD, our Lord, 
how majestic is your name in all the earth!


Click to expand...



Psalm 15:




1 LORD, who may dwell in your sanctuary? 
Who may live on your holy hill? 
2 He whose walk is blameless 
and who does what is righteous, 
who speaks the truth from his heart

3 and has no slander on his tongue, 
who does his neighbor no wrong 
and casts no slur on his fellowman,

4 who despises a vile man 
but honors those who fear the LORD, 
who keeps his oath 
even when it hurts,

5 who lends his money without usury 
and does not accept a bribe against the innocent. 
He who does these things 
will never be shaken.

Click to expand...

and Psalm 42:




 As the deer pants for streams of water, 
so my soul pants for you, O God. 
2 My soul thirsts for God, for the living God. 
When can I go and meet with God?

3 My tears have been my food 
day and night, 
while men say to me all day long, 
"Where is your God?"

4 These things I remember 
as I pour out my soul: 
how I used to go with the multitude, 
leading the procession to the house of God, 
with shouts of joy and thanksgiving 
among the festive throng.

5 Why are you downcast, O my soul? 
Why so disturbed within me? 
Put your hope in God, 
for I will yet praise him, 
my Savior and 6 my God. 
My [c] soul is downcast within me; 
therefore I will remember you 
from the land of the Jordan, 
the heights of Hermonfrom Mount Mizar.

7 Deep calls to deep 
in the roar of your waterfalls; 
all your waves and breakers 
have swept over me.

8 By day the LORD directs his love, 
at night his song is with me 
a prayer to the God of my life.

9 I say to God my Rock, 
"Why have you forgotten me? 
Why must I go about mourning, 
oppressed by the enemy?"

10 My bones suffer mortal agony 
as my foes taunt me, 
saying to me all day long, 
"Where is your God?"

11 Why are you downcast, O my soul? 
Why so disturbed within me? 
Put your hope in God, 
for I will yet praise him, 
my Savior and my God.

Click to expand...

*


----------



## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

JETarpon said:


> Bleu cheese dressing, like God intended.


Thank you for correcting the blasphemy...

Great episode to bring us back to Lost... I don't have any doubts that Eko was on the plane.

Now we know why Eko felt so bad about killing 'The Others'... He is truely the penitent man.


----------



## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

Magister said:


> Now we know why Eko felt so bad about killing 'The Others'... He is truely the penitent man.


The first scene of this show also could provide insight as to why he lashed out so violently at the beginning on the island - with the parallels between him being taken as a youngster and the others coming to take people on the island. In both cases he reacted the same way- killing people. Probably hit him even harder the second time around, hence the 40 days of silence.

Also, I still sense some "bad-ass" in him. He is a great contradiction- knows how to be violent and take care of business but is in constant struggle to stay true to his faith. He is an intriguing character and a welcome addition to the cast. I am looking forward to his next flashback episode to see how he officially became a priest and what led him to Australia..


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

> Great episode to bring us back to Lost... I don't have any doubts that Eko was on the plane.


Did you typo? Did you mean flight 815? Based on his backstory, he was not on the drug plane. And if so, we also still don't know that he was on flight 815....yet. He could have gotten on the Island another way....


----------



## tecban (Oct 10, 2005)

Two big thumbs up for this episode at our house. Eko's backstory was one of the best yet... and yet another person finds a "lost" item on the island.

Watching the smoke scene, it's very hard for me to imagine a mechanical explanation. That doesn't mean there isn't one I could believe, but rather that that is some extreme technology at work, far beyond anything else we've seen in place on the island. Which leads me to believe if "supernatural" and "purgatory" are ruled out, the incident may have been some kind of time-warp event or dimensional fissure where something from another time/place made it's way through... and in an effort to seal off the fissure, one "smoke creature" made it through and can't get back. This event may have also created space/time "ripples" that led everyone there. I dunno.

Charlie and the stash of statues was a great ending. Glad to have the show back!!


----------



## whoknows55 (Jun 17, 2001)

AstroDad said:


> i can't believe thay wasted a bottle of ranch


I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this way.

So Eco is a priest but not really a priest.

Interesting.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I don't think there can be any reasonable doubt that Charlie is using again, considering how strung out and wired he was in this episode.


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

tecban said:


> Two big thumbs up for this episode at our house. Eko's backstory was one of the best yet... and yet another person finds a "lost" item on the island.
> 
> Watching the smoke scene, it's very hard for me to imagine a mechanical explanation. That doesn't mean there isn't one I could believe, but rather that that is some extreme technology at work, far beyond anything else we've seen in place on the island. Which leads me to believe if "supernatural" and "purgatory" are ruled out, the incident may have been some kind of time-warp event or dimensional fissure where something from another time/place made it's way through... and in an effort to seal off the fissure, one "smoke creature" made it through and can't get back. This event may have also created space/time "ripples" that led everyone there. I dunno.
> 
> Charlie and the stash of statues was a great ending. Glad to have the show back!!


Some good points here. Reminds me of the last TV episode of Star Trek TNG: All Good Things.......

In that, once Picard understood the time paradox, he could put things back in order. Very similar to the theory above, and a possibility.


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

> So Eco is a priest but not really a priest.


Do we know that for sure? Maybe in the time between when Eko was not on the drug plane, and when he got to the Island, he actually became one in memory of his brother. And, like Charlie, Eko ends up facing his (drug) demons when on the Island, but maybe can still face them and not partake........(smeeking myself)....and maybe the stash is his and not Charlie's, but he is stashing it to keep it away from everyone else.......


----------



## chavez (Nov 18, 2004)

anyone notice a misquote of Psalm 23? I'm pretty sure I heard Eko and Charlie say

"Yea though I walk through the _shadow_ of the _valley_ of death"

did I hear it right? and if so, anyone think it was intentional?


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

That's what got me thinking the whole Psalm stuff above.......That the smoke is the shadow of the valley of death, but maybe not death itself.....

Now, maybe it is all allegorical.....Maybe the "valley of death", is the "inside" of the island, or wherever Locke was being dragged, or is where everything is being "run" from (a la the monitoring station in Star Trek Insurrection)......then you could see the nano-technology mentioned above, that the smoke is how the Dharma folks are monitoring things.......if you go the "experiment" route to the whole story.....


----------



## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

jlb said:


> Did you typo? Did you mean flight 815? Based on his backstory, he was not on the drug plane. And if so, we also still don't know that he was on flight 815....yet. He could have gotten on the Island another way....


Since he mentioned Australia, I have to assume that when he said plane he meant Oceanic 815.


----------



## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

chavez said:


> anyone notice a misquote of Psalm 23? I'm pretty sure I heard Eko and Charlie say
> 
> "Yea though I walk through the _shadow_ of the _valley_ of death"
> 
> did I hear it right? and if so, anyone think it was intentional?


I always thought it was "As I walk through the shadow of the valley of death, I take a look at my life and realize there's nothing left"

Coolio 3:16


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

bigcb37 said:


> So...science or faith?
> 
> Does anyone still thing there is a scientific explanation to everthing on the island after the smoke?
> 
> I think it would be tough to argue yes...


Well I don't know that there's anything supernatural per se about smoke, but obviously if it is man-made, it's very very advanced scientifically.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Mike Farrington said:


> Since he mentioned Australia, I have to assume that when he said plane he meant Oceanic 815.


I asked about this earlier too - to what are you referring?


----------



## johnmoorejohn (Sep 13, 2001)

Anyone know why Eko was kicked off the drug plane, and his brother was pulled on?


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

johnmoorejohn said:


> Anyone know why Eko was kicked off the drug plane, and his brother was pulled on?


Maybe a greedy person who wants it all for himself.......


----------



## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

johnmoorejohn said:


> Anyone know why Eko was kicked off the drug plane, and his brother was pulled on?


I can't think of a reason they would pull on his brother. They gained nothing by doing it. Initially, Eko wanted to load him up to try to help him, then he got kicked off. Why they wouldn't want to kick both of them off is beyond me. The only thing I could think of was that the guy made a snap decision right after the brother was loaded up to take the whole stash...


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

I don't think Charlie's using. Remember he mentioned he had been an altar boy, so I think he was keeping the statue in connection with a renewed faith. There's also of course the symbolism of the evil (the heroin) wrapped up in the good (the statue); maybe that symbolism helps him fight his addiction. I assumed that he was returning the statue to the plane - it was dark and you couldn't quite see, but he hid it under a yellowish-looking vertical "wall" that I thought was the side of the plane.


----------



## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

Excellent, only four pages the morning after--easy to catch up on as opposed to the sometimes 15 pages! 

1. We were aghast at the ranch dressing as well...as well as the "waste" of ammunition (although he technically only used one bullet).

2. Hubby thought he saw faces in the smoke (HD broadcast tivo'd on Highest quality) but I only saw/heard what I decided was machine gunfire.

3. Wasn't Charlie's quote more like "What? Are you going to hit me with your Jesus stick?" (not there's blood on it). Hubby and I both laughed out loud and repeated it. Glad to see Charlie have a memorable zinger-type line instead of Hurley.

4. I don't think Charlie has been using, but I do think he's keeping a stash JUST IN CASE.

5. My thought about burning the plane... don't you think there was anything that may have been salvagable in it? Or useful for something? I understand why he burned it, but still. Even with the hatch amenities, you'd think you'd keep anything with any use whatsoever.


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

GDG76 said:


> I can't think of a reason they would pull on his brother. They gained nothing by doing it. Initially, Eko wanted to load him up to try to help him, then he got kicked off. Why they wouldn't want to kick both of them off is beyond me. The only thing I could think of was that the guy made a snap decision right after the brother was loaded up to take the whole stash...


They might have thought the brother might be useful for where they were going. i.e., if authorities at their destination questioned the arrival of their plane, they could say they were trying to get the wounded priest to help. But that would be some quick thinking. In the end, I think they took him just so the writers could get him onto the island in a different manner than Eko.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

I think that there's a very simple reason why the cloud didn't attack Eko.
Fear.

Eko wasn't afraid of it.
Locke wasn't either but the pilot was already afraid.

As to why it attacked Locke at the season end?
Well if it could have been Jack's fear.
Or if it really is a security system, the dynamite set it off.


----------



## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

bdlucas said:


> I don't think Charlie's using. Remember he mentioned he had been an altar boy, so I think he was keeping the statue in connection with a renewed faith. There's also of course the symbolism of the evil (the heroin) wrapped up in the good (the statue); maybe that symbolism helps him fight his addiction. I assumed that he was returning the statue to the plane - it was dark and you couldn't quite see, but he hid it under a yellowish-looking vertical "wall" that I thought was the side of the plane.


Obviously some of you guys have never hung out with a high as a kite dopehead. I've had the chance countless times and on the beach with Jin, Charlie was drugged out of his gourd. Even Jin noticed it and he doesn't speak English. You could also feel that he was coming down as he made the trip with Eko- he got more and more pissy as time went on. Usually, addicts will use a "softer" drug or more of the same to avoid coming down- wasn't an option for Charlie. Combine that with all his lies and I think it's highly likely he is using again.


----------



## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

jenhudson said:


> 3. Wasn't Charlie's quote more like "What? Are you going to hit me with your Jesus stick?" (not there's blood on it). Hubby and I both laughed out loud and repeated it. Glad to see Charlie have a memorable zinger-type line instead of Hurley.


Different conversation... Later he noticed the blood. Reminding Eko that he has caused harm since he came to the island...


----------



## JakeyB (Apr 24, 2003)

GDG76 said:


> Obviously some of you guys have never hung out with a high as a kite dopehead. I've had the chance countless times and on the beach with Jin, Charlie was drugged out of his gourd. Even Jin noticed it and he doesn't speak English. You could also feel that he was coming down as he made the trip with Eko- he got more and more pissy as time went on. Usually, addicts will use a "softer" drug or more of the same to avoid coming down- wasn't an option for Charlie. Combine that with all his lies and I think it's highly likely he is using again.


I agree completely. He was obviously high while talking to Jin and what "renewed faith" would lead him to keep 10 ish of the statues? And even if he wasn't using before, he will be now that he's been rejected by Claire.


----------



## KRS (Jan 30, 2002)

JadeWolf07 said:


> Was anyone else heavily reminded of *City of God* during the beginning of the flashback though??


Thank you! COG is a great movie, and at first I was like _But Eko is not Brazilian, is he?_ 

I think Eko _was_ on 815, and the fact that the drug plane is also on the island is just part of the grand scheme of things. I also suspect that he has been masquerading as a priest ever since the drug flight took off. It seemed like his identity was mistaken when the military arrived, and Eko's guilt over his brother has perhaps led him to carry on with his work.

As for Charlie and his stash of statues - if he was using again, wouldn't some of the statues be smashed open? I think he is still staying clean, but the druggie in him can't resist the urge to hoard the heroin, just in case. I mean, if any of us were stranded on an island with a planeload of hacked TiVos, we would be hoarding them under a pile of leaves somewhere......right?

Of course, now that Claire doesn't want him near her or Aaron might just drive him to start using again.


----------



## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

jeff125va said:


> I asked about this earlier too - to what are you referring?


Nevermind. Since JIB didn't quote properly, it messed me up a little. It turns out that, in my mind, I merged two different neighboring posts into one post (post #88 by Magister and post #89 by GDG76).

So my response to JIB regarding the plane and Australia is meaningless.


----------



## crowfan (Dec 27, 2003)

KRS said:


> As for Charlie and his stash of statues - if he was using again, wouldn't some of the statues be smashed open?


I'm think that there's a hole in the bottom of the statues somewhere. The drugs had to get _in_ somehow. They bought the statues already assembled from the church.

I say that Charlie's using for a couple of reasons...

-- he's an addict and there is a huge stash of his drug of choice around. not a leap to think he's using it.
-- he hasn't gone through withdrawl.
-- he was stoned on the beach.

just my opinion of course, but I think he's using it.


----------



## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

KRS said:


> As for Charlie and his stash of statues - if he was using again, wouldn't some of the statues be smashed open? I think he is still staying clean, but the druggie in him can't resist the urge to hoard the heroin, just in case. I mean, if any of us were stranded on an island with a planeload of hacked TiVos, we would be hoarding them under a pile of leaves somewhere......right?


But if it's his stash, he wouldn't have to open them til he needed it. He could be discarding the open ones. If he's not using, he's annoying as all hell as evidenced by the scene on the beach with Jin.

I too thought it had switched to City of God- this wasn't as "shaky cam" but very similar.


----------



## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I don't think there can be any reasonable doubt that Charlie is using again, considering how strung out and wired he was in this episode.


And in many of the previous episodes this season. Throughout the episode I was rooting for Charlie, and didn't want to believe he was using again...

....but the stash at the end showed the truth.


----------



## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

KRS said:


> As for Charlie and his stash of statues - if he was using again, wouldn't some of the statues be smashed open?


Which brings up another question. If the only way to get the heroin out of the statues is to smash them, how did they get the heroin inside them in the first place?

We saw the woman selling the statues to raise money for the church, and Eko asked his brother how many statues they had left, so it would seem the heroin was put into the statues after they were manufactured.

If there was a way to put the heroin into the statues, there must be a way to get it out.


----------



## mitchb2 (Sep 30, 2000)

Great episode up until the shark-jumping smoke monster.


----------



## MitchO (Nov 7, 2003)

JYoung said:


> I think that there's a very simple reason why the cloud didn't attack Eko.
> Fear.


So the smoke defense system is related to Man Thing? After all, _whatever knows fear, burns at Man-Thing's touch! OOooooooh._


----------



## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

getbak said:


> Which brings up another question. If the only way to get the heroin out of the statues is to smash them, how did they get the heroin inside them in the first place?
> 
> We saw the woman selling the statues to raise money for the church, and Eko asked his brother how many statues they had left, so it would seem the heroin was put into the statues after they were manufactured.
> 
> If there was a way to put the heroin into the statues, there must be a way to get it out.


I guessed that the statues had a hole on the bottom so they could stuff them, and then they somehow plugged the hole afterwards.

Just my 2c.


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

GDG76 said:


> The first scene of this show also could provide insight as to why he lashed out so violently at the beginning on the island - with the parallels between him being taken as a youngster and the others coming to take people on the island. In both cases he reacted the same way- killing people. Probably hit him even harder the second time around, hence the 40 days of silence.


I completely missed that parallel. Thanks. I like it.



rizzlebizzle said:


> It seemed like Eko knew it was coming no? How he wanted Charlie to climb the tree. He generally just looked nervous or like he was waiting for something to come.


I don't think so. Just a writer's kludge to get Eko alone with the monster. This was set up earlier with Charlie saying that he was lost.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

jenhudson said:


> 2. Hubby thought he saw faces in the smoke (HD broadcast tivo'd on Highest quality) but I only saw/heard what I decided was machine gunfire.


There were flashes of images from Nigeria...the church, his brother, the old man he shot, a woman I presume was his mother...one or two others.



jenhudson said:


> 3. Wasn't Charlie's quote more like "What? Are you going to hit me with your Jesus stick?" (not there's blood on it). Hubby and I both laughed out loud and repeated it. Glad to see Charlie have a memorable zinger-type line instead of Hurley.


There was a line a bit later...something like "why is there blood on your Jesus stick?"


jenhudson said:


> 4. I don't think Charlie has been using, but I do think he's keeping a stash JUST IN CASE.


I agree with this. Something in him can't let go totally, and it comforts him to know it is available if and when he REALLY needs it.



jenhudson said:


> 5. My thought about burning the plane... don't you think there was anything that may have been salvagable in it? Or useful for something? I understand why he burned it, but still. Even with the hatch amenities, you'd think you'd keep anything with any use whatsoever.


Yeah, like maybe the radio or its parts? Couldn't he let Sayid pick it apart first?


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

bigcb37 said:


> So...science or faith?
> 
> Does anyone still thing there is a scientific explanation to everthing on the island after the smoke?
> 
> I think it would be tough to argue yes...


Absolutely. If you've read _Prey _ by Michael Crichton, there's an example of one possibility there. Advanced technology, but not out of line with some other current sci-fi stories.


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Found this over at The Fuselage. Thought it was funny.



> The Ten Commandments of Lost:
> 
> *1. Thou shalt not share information, lest answers be had.*
> - Examples of enforcement: no one discussing the whispers, Hurley not telling anyone about the numbers, Jack seeing his father, Locke seeing 'the monster', Locke and Boone not mentioning the hatch, Sayid's failure to mention the cable, Michael, Jin, and Sawyer's complete failure to tell anyone about the Others on the boat
> ...


----------



## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

Anyone think maybe the Ranch dressing was spoiled and could not be eaten?


----------



## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

Ranch spoils?


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

MitchO said:


> So the smoke defense system is related to Man Thing? After all, _whatever knows fear, burns at Man-Thing's touch! OOooooooh._


Either that or it's a screening device to find potential candidates for the Green Lantern Corps. 

(BTW, both Locke and Eko flunk the honesty requirement)


----------



## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

The cloud of smoke is a giant Wooly Willy toy being manipulated by the magnets on the island.


----------



## bigcb37 (Jun 14, 2002)

Even if Charlie wanted to use the heroin, how could he? Doesnt it need to be injected?


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

> originally posted by *gdc76*
> Obviously some of you guys have never hung out with a high as a kite dopehead. I've had the chance countless times and on the beach with Jin, Charlie was drugged out of his gourd.


Charlie's addicted to heroin, right? Well, none of the heroin addicts I've known - and unfortunately, I've known a few - would be singing and dancing while they were high. They'd be sitting down and nodding off. That's what heroin does to you, not make you hyper. I don't think Charlie is using at all but he sure is thinking about it and is making sure he has a stash to lose himself in if things go to crap. If he were using, that statue wouldn't have lasted that long.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

bigcb37 said:


> Even if Charlie wanted to use the heroin, how could he? Doesnt it need to be injected?


In the flashbacks and on the plane we saw him snort it. I know nothing about heroin use, but I assume that's a form that can be taken that way...


----------



## KRS (Jan 30, 2002)

I'd have to rewatch, but I don't think that container that Michael shot was full. To me it looked like it was just powder that was stuck to the inside. 


When they were showing Michael in the hatch, I had to wonder why more of the survivors don't hang out in there. There are beds, entertainment, a toilet, a shower, and a washer and dryer. I don't think I'd want to leave that environment and suffer the blazing hot sun all day. Not to mention the Others and the black smoke monster! Why set up ramshackle shelters on the beach when they could all sleep inside in relative comfort?


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

> originally posted by *bigcb37*
> Even if Charlie wanted to use the heroin, how could he? Doesnt it need to be injected?


You can snort heroin. That's how a friend of mine got started. She was dumb enough to think you couldn't get hooked that way, but she did, moved on to injecting once the snorting high levelled off, wound up dead from an overdose within a year.


----------



## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

KRS said:


> When they were showing Michael in the hatch, I had to wonder why more of the survivors don't hang out in there. There are beds, entertainment, a toilet, a shower, and a washer and dryer. I don't think I'd want to leave that environment and suffer the blazing hot sun all day. Not to mention the Others and the black smoke monster! Why set up ramshackle shelters on the beach when they could all sleep inside in relative comfort?


EXACTLY! And even if they didn't all sleep in there, take turns on a bed maybe? Or at least use the facillities? Even if you ran out of laundry soap/shampoo/etc, you could still take a shower or run your clothes through the washer. They need an episode covering all this...


----------



## Granny (Mar 29, 2005)

BeanMeScot said:


> Anyone think maybe the Ranch dressing was spoiled and could not be eaten?


I thought they ate all the food already. Of course, Locke could have found a whole new stash and just not told anybody - that would be like him.

Maybe Charlie is stashing the heroin in case they need it for medical reasons...nah! But if he is using again, wouldn't he have to keep going back to the plane to get more? If so, was he intentionally "losing" Eko when they were looking for the plane? I would think he would have a well worn path if he was using regularly. I feel bad for Charlie getting kicked out of Claire's camp, as he is so totally bonded to that baby.

Good point about maybe Michael hallucinating the messages from Walt. It really would be too much of a coincidence for Walt to be sitting at the "other" (oohhhh, a pun?) computer at the same time as when Michael sits down at his.


----------



## Fl_Gulfer (May 27, 2005)

I saw Dead People in the smoke, Maybe the cast is dead and caught between Heaven & Hell.


----------



## tms317 (May 2, 2003)

I thought that it was odd that "Walt" asked if Michael was alone (as mentioned earlier) and, for that reason, I dont believe it was Walt but possibly the Others either planning on invading the Hatch or trying to get Michael to come to them.

Seems too weird that Walt would be there and his first question would be "are you alone" and not HELP COME GET ME RIGHT NOW.


----------



## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Fl_Gulfer said:


> I saw Dead People in the smoke, Maybe the cast is dead and caught between Heaven & Hell.


That's been ruled out publicly by the producers of the show.

I thought it was a great episode. As soon as we Eko from the smoke's perspective, I assumed they would cut away. I was shocked when the point ov view continued through the smoke. Amazing. All the imahes were listed here in prior posts except one. The last image was of a cucifix.

People keep saying Charlie hasn't gone through withdrawal. What was all that sweating about in season 1. He made his choice to give it up, then suffered through the withdrawals for a few episodes. He's clean, but was keeping a stash to give himself some sort of comfort. Now that his life on the island is crashing down around him, I doubt it will take much to send him back over the edge.

Loved Eko's back story. He saved his brother by shooting the man for him. As a result he goes into a life of crime and his brother becomes a priest. In the end his brother saves him by getting shot. I think we are to assume that Eko becomes a real priest after his brother's death.

Now I need to watch it again.


----------



## jubrand (May 11, 2002)

hefe said:


> Absolutely. If you've read _Prey _ by Michael Crichton, there's an example of one possibility there. Advanced technology, but not out of line with some other current sci-fi stories.


And the magnetism of the island could be acting as a security measure if that is the case. (i'm being vague in case people haven't read the book, more details in spoiler tags)



Spoiler



I'd hate if they're really borrowing from Prey this liberally, but the the nano-probes in Prey could do many of the same things that the smoke has done, or could have done. 
1) They could reflect light so that they actually looked like a person (Walt, Jack's dad, the horse, the pictures Eko saw in the smoke)
2) They could kill when they were in the swarm (the pilot, i guess ripping up the trees) Remember how the pilot was sort of ripped up all over, millions of little pinching robots could do that. 
3) A blast from TNT could dissipate the swarm long enough for Locke to escape.
4) I THINK they could create sounds, but I can't remember for sure. Explains the chain and mechanical sounds we always hear. 
5) The magnetism of the island, or coming from the bunker, could be acting to keep them on the island or at least control them. They're little metal robots, so the strong magnetism could pretty much act as a force field. This could be why the button has to be pressed. Could also be why they only show up sporadically, and for a short time. When the magnet is on, maybe they can't move. Heck, typing in the code could shut the magnet OFF for 2-3 minutes, for all we know.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

AstroDad said:


> Anyone ever read Prey by Michael Crichton?
> 
> (sounds off topic, but it isn't)


Only on page 2, so I dunno how many other people said yes, but for me: yes.  And I've been thinking about that for a long time now (since last season).


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

hefe said:


> Wouldn't have needed to be if the thread wasn't started so early.
> 
> I think most people view it as a reasonable courtesy not to post untagged spoilers before something actually airs. Technically, no, the posts about this episode shouldn't have to be tagged, but also technically, it shouldn't have been started yet. <shrug> Not a big deal to me, it wasn't a real specific spoiler, but I can understand others wanting to avoid it.


While this thread definitely went against posting rules by being started too early (though I guess really a new thread should simply have been started at the right time -- nothing inherently wrong with an early discussion, too), I think your interpretation of spoiler requirements would be wrong on a technicality. After all, west-coasters would then have a right to demand spoiler tags be used in threads for that 3 hours between east coast and west coast airings.

If the thread title contained an episode date and/or season/episode number, it can contain spoilers for that episode and prior -- it really doesn't matter that it has not yet aired for one or more markets.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

KRS said:


> ...When they were showing Michael in the hatch, I had to wonder why more of the survivors don't hang out in there. There are beds, entertainment, a toilet, a shower, and a washer and dryer. I don't think I'd want to leave that environment and suffer the blazing hot sun all day. Not to mention the Others and the black smoke monster! Why set up ramshackle shelters on the beach when they could all sleep inside in relative comfort?


I've been wondering the same thing. I'm more of an outdoors kinda guy (especially when it's hot), and I would think they'd like some variety, at the least. Certainly during the nighttime to get away from bugs and such.


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## stevecon (Apr 29, 2005)

aeedee said:


> does anyone know where i can get (or if anyone has) the last nine episodes of season 2, hope you guys don't mind the question, just started watching lost and i really wanna catch up


You should find these episodes easily in your newsgroups provider and via bittorrent.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

dswallow said:


> While this thread definitely went against posting rules by being started too early (though I guess really a new thread should simply have been started at the right time -- nothing inherently wrong with an early discussion, too), I think your interpretation of spoiler requirements would be wrong on a technicality.


That's why I called it a "reasonable courtesy" and said "Technically, no, the posts about this episode shouldn't have to be tagged."


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

Granny said:


> I thought they ate all the food already. Of course, Locke could have found a whole new stash and just not told anybody - that would be like him.


I thought that at first, as well. But maybe there wasn't anything to GO WITH the ranch dressing...a gallon of ranch is a lot if there's no salad or wings.


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## jubrand (May 11, 2002)

jenhudson said:


> I thought that at first, as well. But maybe there wasn't anything to GO WITH the ranch dressing...a gallon of ranch is a lot if there's no salad or wings.


Ranch goes with everything!


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

jubrand said:


> Ranch goes with everything!


Well, I think that as well, LOL, and you'd think castaways would think that, too. So I'll chalk it up to bad writing or bad ranch (i.e. they tasted it and it was actually bad).


----------



## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

GDG76 said:


> The whole Sawyer is liked by everyone now seemed kind of forced to me. There was no reason for anyone to start acting like that. He's always been a prick and if anything, I would think some people on the island would have rather seen him gone. And Kate's behavior towards him makes no sense considering her "confession" to him from the horse episode.


Well, he did take a bullet trying to save Walt.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Granny said:


> I thought they ate all the food already. Of course, Locke could have found a whole new stash and just not told anybody - that would be like him.


When I first saw it, I thought it was an empty container and just had a layer of dressing on the inside -- though when the container was shot there did seem to be more splashed than I'd expect. It might've been filled with something else.


----------



## jubrand (May 11, 2002)

jenhudson said:


> Well, I think that as well, LOL, and you'd think castaways would think that, too. So I'll chalk it up to bad writing or bad ranch (i.e. they tasted it and it was actually bad).


That is the ONLY excuse. I'd eat sand if it had ranch on it. (even if there _were_ crawdad to be found)


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## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

bigcb37 said:


> Even if Charlie wanted to use the heroin, how could he? Doesnt it need to be injected?


I thought when they showed him take it in the airplane bathroom he rubbed it on his gums.


----------



## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

ClutchBrake said:


> Well, he did take a bullet trying to save Walt.


True, I guess we've just never seen that info disseminated to the rest of the survivors. That's one thing I miss about Lost- used to be able to keep track of everything that went on when everyone was in one big group. As they've spread out, a lot of characters have been forgotten or really glossed over.

And I think I saw the beginnings of a possible love interest/flirty relationship for Hurley. That should be interesting, especially with her being a shrink in her former life...


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## KRS (Jan 30, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> I've been wondering the same thing. I'm more of an outdoors kinda guy (especially when it's hot), and I would think they'd like some variety, at the least. Certainly during the nighttime to get away from bugs and such.


My island schedule:


10 AM - wake up on cot (my turn in the bed tomorrow!)
10:15 AM - shower
10:30 AM - scrounge up some breakfast (leftover fish in the fridge)
11 AM - venture outside
11:15 AM - hang out with Charlie
11:20 AM - shoot some heroin ranch dressing
12 noon - nap
1 PM - eat some fruit for lunch
2 PM - stare longingly at Evangeline
3 PM - hang out with Hurley
4 PM - nap
6 PM - dinner with Jin and Sun
8 PM - laundry
9 PM - read Watership Down again
1 AM - go to sleep, dreaming about Evangeline


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I've read Prey also and think that this could be very similar. 

I was also distraught about how callous they were about wasting resources: Shooting the ranch container, burning the plane. I was also bothered by how little they seem to be using the resources they do have: All the stuff in the hatch. I would think that 40+ people stranded on an island for 50 days or so would present a serious survivability crisis. However, we only ever see Jin fishing and we don't ever see anyone else doing anything to further their survival. I realize that this is not what the show is focusing on, but it would be nice if the writers/producers would at least give nods to the fact that they are stranded on an island and would be desperate for food and make use of EVERY piece of material that they had access to.

Having said that, I really loved the Eko backstory and the rest of the episode. I had almost forgotten how much I like this show.


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## mcdougll (Jan 27, 2003)

jlb said:


> Did you typo? Did you mean flight 815? Based on his backstory, he was not on the drug plane. And if so, we also still don't know that he was on flight 815....yet. He could have gotten on the Island another way....


If you think Eko wasn't on the plane (flt 815), then you'd have to question whether any of the 'tailies' were as well. Check the episode(s), Eko swam/waded out of the water just like Anna-Lucia and the rest.

In other words, I have no doubt that Eko was on the plane (flt 815).

Why he was on the plane, is an entirely different question.


----------



## LifeIsABeach (Feb 28, 2001)

Great smoke pics.

http://lost.cubit.net/pics/2x10/


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

LifeIsABeach said:


> Great smoke pics.
> 
> http://lost.cubit.net/pics/2x10/


Smeek much?


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## Kevdog (Apr 18, 2001)

Watching this episode brought to mind a couple of things (warning: smeeks and conjecture to follow):
- There is a third hatch somewhere that we haven't seen yet (since, according to the film reel, our guys found station 3 and the tailies were in another station) 
- There are people in the third hatch; the others?
- It has computer that is networked to the 1st hatch
- I don't think it's Walt who is IMing Michael
- We still don't have an answer for how the drug plane got from Nigeria to the South Pacific


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## hyimted (Apr 13, 2003)

i felt so bad for charlie after claire tossed him out. i mean, the dude almost died trying to get her back right? damn, how quickly she forgot. while i don't think he's using yet ... i think this "exile" will be enough to send him back.

great backstory on eko. and, as usual, didn't notice anything in the monster cloud. glad you guys are keepin' an eye on this stuff.


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## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

Kevdog said:


> - We still don't have an answer for how the drug plane got from Nigeria to the South Pacific


Nor do we know why Eko's brother was so adamantly afraid that Eko not go on the plane ride. It was more than just not wanting Eko to do another bad thing - he looked convinced that Eko would die if he got on the plane.

How did he know that? I suspect this may be a great unanswered question as Brother died before explaining...


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## MitchO (Nov 7, 2003)

What I'm surprised is that we don't have a screencap of the Jesus Stick yet. Besides Revelation 3:16, the only other word that I noticed was "Hateth". What else was on there?


----------



## Hemi (Jan 9, 2002)

I'm not convinced that Charlie is using - none of the statues he had were broken including the one he was carrying around with him and as someone a has pointed out - heroin use would make him lethargic, not hyper. If there was a way to extract the drugs without breaking the statues, then Eko or someone would have done it. No one wants to break a virgin mary statue on purpose.

Also, since the film mentions six stations - there maybe four additional hatches on the island. 

The big mysteries for me are:

- Where's Desmond?
- How did the drug plane get to the south pacific?
- Has the experiment (that the swan bunker was built for) really failed?
- Why doesn't anyone talk to each other when something strange/bad/weird happens?

And finally, why is it when Shannon sees Walt in the rain and he is indicating to be quiet, does she scream and run towards him?

Dan


----------



## nataylor (Apr 26, 2000)

MitchO said:


> What I'm surprised is that we don't have a screencap of the Jesus Stick yet. Besides Revelation 3:16, the only other word that I noticed was "Hateth". What else was on there?


Here ya go: linky.


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## crowfan (Dec 27, 2003)

Big_Daddy said:


> Nor do we know why Eko's brother was so adamantly afraid that Eko not go on the plane ride. It was more than just not wanting Eko to do another bad thing - he looked convinced that Eko would die if he got on the plane.
> 
> How did he know that? I suspect this may be a great unanswered question as Brother died before explaining...


I thought he just wanted Eko to come with him and get away from the plane because he knew the military was coming (because he had called them) and wanted to get him out of there before they showed up.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

Hemi said:


> No one wants to break a virgin mary statue on purpose.
> Dan


So not true..  I personally would have no problem breaking one. Just ceramic to me...


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

Kevdog said:


> - There is a third hatch somewhere that we haven't seen yet (since, according to the film reel, our guys found station 3 and the tailies were in another station)


The orientation video said either 3 of 5 or 3 of 6. There are that many hatches then.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Hemi said:


> And finally, why is it when Shannon sees Walt in the rain and he is indicating to be quiet, does she scream and run towards him?


When was Shannon shown to be particularly bright?


----------



## Legion (Aug 24, 2005)

On the Jesus stick it looked like they carved Revelation 5:3

" And no man in Heaven, nor in Earth, neither under the Earth, was able to open the Book, neither to look thereon."


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Kevdog said:


> ...We still don't have an answer for how the drug plane got from Nigeria to the South Pacific





Hemi said:


> ...- How did the drug plane get to the south pacific?...


Why is it that folks are so puzzled by this? Why is it such a stretch to believe that the plane was taking the drugs from Africa to somewhere east (like Australia, South America or North America)? Even a small plane like that could manage the long trip with several re-fuelings.


----------



## RegBarc (Feb 18, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> You can snort heroin. That's how a friend of mine got started. She was dumb enough to think you couldn't get hooked that way, but she did, moved on to injecting once the snorting high levelled off, wound up dead from an overdose within a year.


It can also be absorbed through the gum line, much like how lidocaine or numbing gel you buy at the CVS. That's what he was doing on the plane, IIRC.


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## RegBarc (Feb 18, 2003)

crowfan said:


> I thought he just wanted Eko to come with him and get away from the plane because he knew the military was coming (because he had called them) and wanted to get him out of there before they showed up.


I may be radical on this one, I believe his brother to be caught up in something more sinister. To be a dealer himself, or perhaps the African version of a mob. Church was a front itself?


----------



## chavez (Nov 18, 2004)

> I may be radical on this one, I believe his brother to be caught up in something more sinister. To be a dealer himself, or perhaps the African version of a mob. Church was a front itself?


what in the episode led you to believe this?


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

GDG76 said:


> And I think I saw the beginnings of a possible love interest/flirty relationship for Hurley. That should be interesting, especially with her being a shrink in her former life...


"King of Queens" comes to the island.


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

> I'm not convinced that Charlie is using - none of the statues he had were broken including the one he was carrying around with him


Neither am I, but didn't Eko and his comrades ask the lady how many statues were available, and didn't she say something that was 100+? We only saw maybe 10 in that shot at the end when Charlie put the one back. We don't know if other statues were broken into, or for that matter, broken during the crash, which would likely mean that some of the drugs are either burned up now, or somewhere else on the Island......


----------



## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

Fool Me Twice said:


> "King of Queens" comes to the island.


Hurley inference I get, but overall that makes no sense. the shrink lady isn't fat.


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

scheckeNYK said:


> Hurley inference I get, but overall that makes no sense. the shrink lady isn't fat.


Not till season 5 or so, anyway.


----------



## RegBarc (Feb 18, 2003)

chavez said:


> what in the episode led you to believe this?


The fact the guy took the brother, but _not_ Ecko. While the brother said he told the soldiers of the deal but he wanted Ecko to go with him instead of being caught, I think it's entirely possible his brother was nailing the "competition".


----------



## Cragmyre (Mar 8, 2004)

I see it more as Eko's man figured the military knew it was 3 people (1 of which was shot). So by grabbing the brother he knew that Eko would be mistaken for the brother that reported the crime.


----------



## crazywater (Mar 7, 2001)

chavez said:


> anyone notice a misquote of Psalm 23? I'm pretty sure I heard Eko and Charlie say
> 
> "Yea though I walk through the _shadow_ of the _valley_ of death"
> 
> did I hear it right? and if so, anyone think it was intentional?


Getting back to this, here is the King James version;



> 4 Yea, though I walk through *the valley of the shadow of death*,
> I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
> thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.


They could not have made a mistake like this so what are they leading up to...And the fact that they both said it wrong together is even more intriguing...


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## Mike20878 (Jun 8, 2001)

scheckeNYK said:


> Hurley inference I get, but overall that makes no sense. the shrink lady isn't fat.


Are you saying Leah Remini's fat?


----------



## darthrsg (Jul 25, 2005)

Hemi said:


> And finally, why is it when Shannon sees Walt in the rain and he is indicating to be quiet, does she scream and run towards him?
> 
> Dan


to prove she is not crazy


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## Charon2 (Nov 1, 2001)

Regarding the whole "shadow of the valley of death" vs. "valley of the shadow of death" I don't know if there is a reason for it or not. While it sounds like they were trying to recite from the King James version, except for that part, some translations do move the word order around. The New Living Translations says:



> Even when I walk through the dark valley of death,"


God's Word has it this way:


> Even when I walk through the dark valley of death,"


My Bible notes on that says "or darkest valley" so I am guessing the more literal translation is "dark valley of death."
Perhaps the King James has it wrong. This wouldn't be the only time the King James mis-translated. Psalms 8:5 says, when talking about mankind, "For thou hast made him a little lower then the angles..." When they should have replaced angels with God, as the word the Psalmist used there is Elohim, which they translate properly in Genesis with "God created," "God said," and that whole deal. I would have to guess the translators thought it blasphemy to say man was above the angels.
Anyhow, back to the passage at hand. Perhaps the King James translators thought it flowed better the way they put the word order. Who knows why they would change it from "darkest valley" to "Valley of the shadow," seems like a fairly big word reversal.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

JYoung said:


> I think that there's a very simple reason why the cloud didn't attack Eko.
> Fear.
> 
> Eko wasn't afraid of it.
> ...


Actually, Lock was afraid of it. He was intrigued by it at first, then it blew up the tree right in front of him. As it was coming down at him, he sort of smiled. Then I presume it showed him an image he didn't like, because he got this look of fear on his face, got up, and ran for his life.


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

Mike20878 said:


> Are you saying Leah Remini's fat?


Who?


----------



## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

5thcrewman said:


> Who?


my friend, you are missing out on one of the great inside jokes in TCF history


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

AstroDad said:


> my friend, you are missing out on one of the great inside jokes in TCF history


I doubt that. I think someone else is missing out on a little sarcasm.


----------



## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

bdlucas said:


> I doubt that. I think someone else is missing out on a little sarcasm.


Who?


----------



## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

bdlucas said:


> I doubt that. I think someone else is missing out on a little sarcasm.


nah, can't be...sarcasm would be followed by a  or a  maybe even a  given the right situation. 5thcrewman is obviously completely clueless!


----------



## reliant76 (Feb 14, 2003)

crazywater said:


> They could not have made a mistake like this so what are they leading up to...And the fact that they both said it wrong together is even more intriguing...


Jorge Garcia was on Chicago radio this morning. When asked if he reads any of the Internet boards about Lost, he said he laughs sometimes when people are *convinced* they've found clues when they're really continuity errors et. al. Not discounting that there may have been a purpose to this, but it may not even be a red herring - it might just be a non-issue.

BTW, he mentioned that he listens to podcasts about Lost in the car on the way to work. Anyone know what podcasts he's talking about?


----------



## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

reliant76 said:


> BTW, he mentioned that he listens to podcasts about Lost in the car on the way to work. Anyone know what podcasts he's talking about?


Probably the official one, Delta Park's, The Transmission or TV Squad's.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

LordKronos said:


> Actually, Lock was afraid of it. He was intrigued by it at first, then it blew up the tree right in front of him. As it was coming down at him, he sort of smiled. Then I presume it showed him an image he didn't like, because he got this look of fear on his face, got up, and ran for his life.


But that was the second time he encountered it,when they were transporting the dynamite?
I don't remember him being afraid the first time.


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

5thcrewman said:


> Who?


I think we'll never be completely sure.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

JYoung said:


> But that was the second time he encountered it,when they were transporting the dynamite?
> I don't remember him being afraid the first time.


First time was episode 4, when he was hunting the boar. When he saw it he stopped, backed up until he backed into a bush, then kind of had a "oh crap...this can't be good" look on his face.


----------



## mohler7154 (Mar 7, 2005)

Forgive me if someone else already said this, but did anyone else notice the similarity of the drug smugglers coming to take all the children, and the others taking all the children on the island. All the children from the tail section, walt from the main side and even the french womans baby.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Yeah, I noticed. I was watching for it to go somewhere, but nothing much came of it.


----------



## mohler7154 (Mar 7, 2005)

Yeah me too. It could have been a nice corralation, maybe they will do more with it later.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

LordKronos said:


> First time was episode 4, when he was hunting the boar. When he saw it he stopped, backed up until he backed into a bush, then kind of had a "oh crap...this can't be good" look on his face.


No, that was a look of adulation. He was not scared. He was staring at it intensely the first time - it was a sign from the Island. There was nothing on the Island that was going to cause him fear - only wonder and faith. Locke loves the Island and everything on it. He is whole there. When the Monster grabbed him and tried to pull him down the hole, he didn't fight it....Jack and Kate did. Locke was ready to go. It was his Faith.


----------



## jk5598224 (Jan 29, 2003)

Does anybody else have thought Hurly would have lost weight by NOW?


----------



## tem (Oct 6, 2003)

mask2343 said:


> In HD, you can clearly see the faces in the smoke. They are his brother, the woman selling statue, maybe his mother, the man with the gold teeth, and some scenes of his brother getting shot.


there was also an image of Jesus on the cross.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

tem said:


> there was also an image of Jesus on the cross.


Yes, it was more precisely a crucifix.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

betts4 said:


> No, that was a look of adulation. He was not scared. He was staring at it intensely the first time - it was a sign from the Island. There was nothing on the Island that was going to cause him fear - only wonder and faith. Locke loves the Island and everything on it. He is whole there. When the Monster grabbed him and tried to pull him down the hole, he didn't fight it....Jack and Kate did. Locke was ready to go. It was his Faith.


Here's the look, we can only interpret...


----------



## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

jk5598224 said:


> Does anybody else have thought Hurly would have lost weight by NOW?


Hurley probably would have lost a bit. They've only been on the island, what, 5 weeks? It might not be enough to notice on someone that big. They seem to be doing OK in the food department.

Jorge, on the other hand, is almost certainly under no obligation to lose any weight for the series.


----------



## sonnik (Jul 7, 2000)

Two items I found of interest:

1) Locke tells Michael something to the effect that he's [Locke] older than he [Michael] thinks. We all know of the parallels drawn between him and 17th century John Locke. But, if you've noticed Locke tends to sometimes reply with a bit of "humor from truth". Also included in this exchange was "Where did you learn to shoot like that?" - to which Locke replied "My dad used to take me hunting." Michael would have thought this meant with Locke was a child; as Michael doesn't know Locke's story.

2) There's more evidence that others had prior knowledge of the island (or Flight 815). The first was the clairvoyant that implied that it is imperitive that Claire raise her child, no others - then she had to be on Flight 815. The second would be Eko's brother, who did not want him to get on the little yellow plane. Either these two individuals had visions about planes being taken down, or received information from Dharma individuals in the outside world.


----------



## sonnik (Jul 7, 2000)

JMikeD said:


> Hurley probably would have lost a bit. They've only been on the island, what, 5 weeks?


Up until this point, the only accurate information we have is "48 days" - so, just estimating that it's probably been a few days after the arrival of the other group.


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## smickola (Nov 17, 2004)

Perhaps in misquoting the 23rd Psalm, Eko is referring to the black smoke. The smoke showed him images from his life, and showed him his sins... the type of things people associate with dying, "seeing their life flash before their eyes". Perhaps the black smoke is Death...and in staring it down, Eko walked through the shadow (the dark cloud) of the valley of death..??


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## TiVoJedi (Mar 1, 2002)

El Gabito said:


> I was thinking cls


'Windows key +m' to minimize all.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Finally watched this last night - I thought this episode was really great.

The actor who plays Ecko is just amazing - brilliant, really. 

As for the "good" vs "bad" theories people keep raising, I think what is most intriguing about this show (for me) is that none of the characters are "good" or "bad" - they are so well developed that you cannot "tag" any of them. So any good-bad explainations for what is happening (ex. why the black smoke did not touch Ecko) don't really work for me.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

betts4 said:


> No, that was a look of adulation. He was not scared. He was staring at it intensely the first time - it was a sign from the Island. There was nothing on the Island that was going to cause him fear - only wonder and faith. Locke loves the Island and everything on it. He is whole there. When the Monster grabbed him and tried to pull him down the hole, he didn't fight it....Jack and Kate did. Locke was ready to go. It was his Faith.


I rewatched the episode before I made my post last night. It certainly doesn't look like adulation. He looks a little bit scared. Certainly nowhere near as scared as he looked in Exodus, but he looked frightened to me. And in exodus, he may have accepted his fate and was ready to go down the hole, but 10 seconds prior, he was running for his life. He's kind of a mixed bag of emotion.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

hefe said:


> Here's the look, we can only interpret...


The problem is those are still shots. I agree, those stills make him look intrigued and fascinated, but when you see it in motion (I rewatched it last night), just the way his face moves looks to me like he's a bit frightened.


----------



## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

Cragmyre said:


> I see it more as Eko's man figured the military knew it was 3 people (1 of which was shot). So by grabbing the brother he knew that Eko would be mistaken for the brother that reported the crime.


This is how I interpreted the scene, as well. The guy that shoved him off was the guy with the gold tooth, who Eko found dead with a parachute in the jungle and said, "this man saved my life."


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

mohler7154 said:


> Forgive me if someone else already said this, but did anyone else notice the similarity of the drug smugglers coming to take all the children, and the others taking all the children on the island. All the children from the tail section, walt from the main side and even the french womans baby.


from what I understand, it is common for groups of rebels, or gangs, or military, or whatever you want to call them...to come into towns and take the children and force them to fight for their cause.


----------



## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

jradford said:


> This is how I interpreted the scene, as well. The guy that shoved him off was the guy with the gold tooth, who Eko found dead with a parachute in the jungle and said, "this man saved my life."


Or, Eko might have realized that he would have died soon if he had continued selling drugs and that even though the guy tried to double cross him at the last second he did him an indirect favor, since once Eko started masquerading as a Priest, he improved his own life.


----------



## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

Lee L said:


> Or, Eko might have realized that he would have died soon if he had continued selling drugs and that even though the guy tried to double cross him at the last second he did him an indirect favor, since once Eko started masquerading as a Priest, he improved his own life.


Right, same way I saw it. Gold-tooth kicked him off for what could be a variety of reasons, (the one I assumed was that he knew the military would be looking for 3 men, and that 1 priest was clean.) When he was given this 2nd chance, whether gold-tooth intended this or not (I do not think he did), he was able to change his life.


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## smickola (Nov 17, 2004)

jradford said:


> Right, same way I saw it. Gold-tooth kicked him off for what could be a variety of reasons, (the one I assumed was that he knew the military would be looking for 3 men, and that 1 priest was clean.) When he was given this 2nd chance, whether gold-tooth intended this or not (I do not think he did), he was able to change his life.


OK, here's what's bothering me with this, there's one guy missing. Yes, other than the priest (Eko's brother) there were 3 men to start with...Eko, and his two flunkies who had come around to the church with him..."gold tooth" and one other guy.

But when the military guys came and started firing at the plane, "other guy" got shot down just before Eko's brother did. Then "gold tooth" got on the plane, pulled on Eko's brother, and kicked Eko off. We never saw "other guy" get on the plane...so were there 3 men on the plane?? Maybe there was another person already on the plane prior to "gold tooth" boarding? I think there must have been, because when Sayid came across the plane in the jungle, he specifically said there were a "couple of priests" in the plane. If "gold tooth" had parachuted out and wasn't in the plane, and "other guy" was shot down and never made it to the plane, who was the other priest's body that Sayid found?


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## Dafaso (Dec 13, 2000)

jradford said:


> Right, same way I saw it. Gold-tooth kicked him off for what could be a variety of reasons, (the one I assumed was that he knew the military would be looking for 3 men, and that 1 priest was clean.) When he was given this 2nd chance, whether gold-tooth intended this or not (I do not think he did), he was able to change his life.


But did gold-tooth guy somehow know the plane was going to crash? Otherwise why not just let Eko (and his brother) get on the plane and fly to safety?


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## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

TiVoJedi said:


> 'Windows key +m' to minimize all.


Actually, he just pressed CTRL+F4.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

I think the other guy was dead on the tarmac.


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## smickola (Nov 17, 2004)

Lee L said:


> I think the other guy was dead on the tarmac.


I agree. But that's my question...if the other guy was dead on the tarmac...and gold tooth parachuted out of the plane, so his body was not in the plane... besides Eko's brother, who was the other priest that Sayid found in the plane?


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## Cragmyre (Mar 8, 2004)

I think there was a pilot on board too. But that is just conjecture


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

sonnik said:


> 2) There's more evidence that others had prior knowledge of the island (or Flight 815). The first was the clairvoyant that implied that it is imperitive that Claire raise her child, no others - then she had to be on Flight 815. The second would be Eko's brother, who did not want him to get on the little yellow plane. Either these two individuals had visions about planes being taken down, or received information from Dharma individuals in the outside world.


In my opinion you are reading too much into this. I think Eko's brother wanted to get him out of there because the law was coming, using information from him.

Z


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## mitkraft (Feb 21, 2003)

As far as "where's the 3rd 'priest' " goes. I count three people we've found on the island in priest gear. The one found earlier with the gun (I can't remember who found him exactly). I believe he was found before they found the plane. They were all like "um, what's a priest need with a 9 millimeter?"

The Second was the guy who parachuted, and the third (and only real) priest was the brother who was still in the plane. Don't know about a pilot though. That's a good question. But can't all drug runners fly a plane? They always do in the movies


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## forecheck (Aug 5, 2000)

My first thought was the priest that Eku found was the same one that Locke had found. Locke took the gun from him but never showed him moving or burying him.


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

Dafaso said:


> But did gold-tooth guy somehow know the plane was going to crash? Otherwise why not just let Eko (and his brother) get on the plane and fly to safety?


I don't think he knew the plane was going to crash. I think he knew that there was a good chance they weren't getting back in the country, or something to that effect. I don't think it's possible to say for sure what the motives were behind kicking Eko off the plane, but I'm interpreting it as gold-tooth knowing that Eko was probably a more important part of the cartel if he was safe in Nigeria. I don't think he did it knowing that Eko would take his 2nd chance and turn his life around.

About the # of Priests that got on the plane, and how many we've found in the jungle on the show, I'm not sure. I will have rewatch the plane takeoff scene from last night.


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## mitkraft (Feb 21, 2003)

forecheck said:


> My first thought was the priest that Eku found was the same one that Locke had found. Locke took the gun from him but never showed him moving or burying him.


I didn't think they were the same, wasn't the one from this EP "undsiturbed"? For some reason I don't remember Locke (or whoever found him) leaving the first on this way.


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

Cragmyre said:


> I see it more as Eko's man figured the military knew it was 3 people (1 of which was shot). So by grabbing the brother he knew that Eko would be mistaken for the brother that reported the crime.


Hmm - I didn't get that at all. I thought Eko's colleague was doing a "screw you - it's all mine now" kind of thing. Of course, that did leave me wondering why he took the dead brother...

Edited to Add: I'm gonna need to get high-def. In regular def, I didn't see a single image of anything in the smoke/cloud/Prey monster even after I went back and knew they were there!!


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## thatmeowgirl (Oct 8, 2004)

Just because Charlie was acting goofy with Jin doesnt mean he is using.

If I were as bored as him being stranded on an island, I'd be goofy too. Even more fun when the person you're with can't understand you.


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## Waldorf (Oct 4, 2002)

scheckeNYK said:


> Actually, he just pressed CTRL+F4.


Possibly ALT+F4 even. 

Or to do it with style... F11. (Exposé)


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## kjnorman (Jun 21, 2002)

AstroDad said:


> i can't believe thay wasted a bottle of ranch


That was my wife's comment! There on the island with limited food (the bunker supposedly has none as Hurley throw a party with it several episodes back), so one where did they get a jar of ranch and two) why'd they waste it??

They could have just shot a log...


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

ScottE22 said:


> ...I'm gonna need to get high-def. In regular def, I didn't see a single image of anything in the smoke/cloud/Prey monster even after I went back and knew they were there!!


May I borrow this to convince my wife?


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## smickola (Nov 17, 2004)

One thing that struck me when I rewatched this episode...I don't think Eko ever addressed his brother by name, he always just called him "Brother." I found that odd...and it really struck me one time he said it, with his accent, it came off sounding very much like Desmond... who addressed everyone as "brother"...some parallel there?


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## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

Waldorf said:


> Possibly ALT+F4 even.
> 
> Or to do it with style... F11. (Exposé)


Actually, I was making an Edgar Stiles of "24" reference. His directivve of Ctrl+F4 allowed Curtis to break into the super terrorism computer and stop the reactors from melting down, thus saving the world. Who knew it was that easy?


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

mitkraft said:


> I didn't think they were the same, wasn't the one from this EP "undsiturbed"? For some reason I don't remember Locke (or whoever found him) leaving the first on this way.


It's the same guy. Boone pointed out the gold tooth and then Locke found the gun and said "I don't think they were preists."

I can't believe people are thinking the gold toothed guy kicked him out the plane to save his life. He kicked him out of the plane to keep his drugs. It's that simple. That's like saying the military guys were shooting at them because they "wanted to be friends."


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## Waldorf (Oct 4, 2002)

scheckeNYK said:


> Actually, I was making an Edgar Stiles of "24" reference. His directivve of Ctrl+F4 allowed Curtis to break into the super terrorism computer and stop the reactors from melting down, thus saving the world. Who knew it was that easy?


Ah! Hahaha... not to get off topic, but is that the one where Edgar had him read the serial number of the hard drive over the phone?


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## lordrichter (Jan 11, 2003)

My thoughts.

That little orange twin prop plane is probably around 9500 miles (3000 nautical miles) away from where it started in Nigeria. Considering the contents of the plane, I believe it is justified to ask how the plane got there. That plane probably has a range of around 900 nautical miles which means at least two stops to refuel. Given that the plane has a dead priest in it, a live smuggler dressed as a priest, and quite a few (they never finished loading the plane) little statues filled with drugs, and the plane has no flight plan and is probably wanted by the Nigerian government, my guess is that refuelling is not as simple a proposition as stopping at the local Philips-66 and picking up some unleaded.

I don't think that Charlie is using. He is not acting like he did during the first season when we know he was using.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

NoThru22 said:


> I can't believe people are thinking the gold toothed guy kicked him out the plane to save his life. He kicked him out of the plane to keep his drugs. It's that simple. That's like saying the military guys were shooting at them because they "wanted to be friends."


Sir, you are a voice of reason.
I don't understand why there is an arguement on this.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

smickola said:


> One thing that struck me when I rewatched this episode...I don't think Eko ever addressed his brother by name, he always just called him "Brother." I found that odd...and it really struck me one time he said it, with his accent, it came off sounding very much like Desmond... who addressed everyone as "brother"...some parallel there?


I thought he called him by name once, but I didn't catch what it was.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

When Mr. Eko said he saved my life once, he meant he saved it by kicking him off that plane. There didn't need to be a positive connatation to that statement.


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## lpamelaa (May 3, 2004)

thatmeowgirl said:


> Just because Charlie was acting goofy with Jin doesnt mean he is using.
> 
> If I were as bored as him being stranded on an island, I'd be goofy too. Even more fun when the person you're with can't understand you.


I think the writers had Charlie acting goofy to make us viewers believe that maybe he was using again.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

lpamelaa said:


> I think the writers had Charlie acting goofy to make us viewers believe that maybe he was using again.


If that's the case, the writers need to do some research on how heroin addicts act when they're using.


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

cherry ghost said:


> If that's the case, the writers need to do some research on how heroin addicts act when they're using.


If their goal was to make viewers think that he might be using when he isn't actually using, then they only need to have him behave in a way that would make the average viewer think "he's on drugs".


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

The only thing that made Charlie look like he might be using is that he has hoarded the heroin. And that still doesn't mean he is. Frankly, none of his behavior made it look that way, other than his lying. I don't think he is using again...not yet...


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

smickola said:


> One thing that struck me when I rewatched this episode...I don't think Eko ever addressed his brother by name, he always just called him "Brother." I found that odd...and it really struck me one time he said it, with his accent, it came off sounding very much like Desmond... who addressed everyone as "brother"...some parallel there?


Maybe important, maybe not. A lot of the time, those devices are used in lieu of other exposition...to actually inform you of the relationship between the characters without too much cumbersome dialog.


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## TeeSee (Jan 16, 2003)

If Charlie is an addict and he's on an island with a large stash of drugs with no one to stop him from doing them if he wants, then I can't see him not using. I can't see any addict resisting that kind of temptation. It's just too far out of the realm of believability to expect him to resist, not from what I've known of people who I've been close to who are addicts. Keeping a stash around to "prove" that he can resist is a laughable idea. 

That being said, I don't think Charlie is using. Not because it makes sense (because it certainly doesn't) but because we haven't seen him use. We should never assume anything we haven't seen on this show, and much of what we DO see.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

The one question I had about Charlie and Herion Stash is this - How long will Herion stay...um....'good'? Good enough to be worth stashing? Doesn't it lose its life in a few months or year? That stuff has been out there for a couple to three years, and in the tropical heat and moisture. Yes, yes, I know its in a baggie and then in a statue, but there is still a question of how good can it be?

I also wondered if the burning of the plane FULL of herion would make any kind of smell/high feeling and why did no one on the island mention the smoke from the plane burning? 

And the biggest question I have is - Where is Desmond??? Why isn't Jack wondering that? Why didn't he come back after he realized the earch wasn't going to fall apart. 

Oh how I love Lost!


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Also want to toss this Interesting thought I had in to the mix-
I haven't seen it anywhere else yet.

Eko is the first person with a legitimate connection to the island or something on it. 

Everyone else ended up here, it seems he was meant to arrive....

1/14 - I am editing this to say - He was possibly LOOKING for the Island and his brother - not just on a plane and in a crash. There are definately others that have connections here - Hurley and the numbers, Jack and Desmond, Locke and his toes. But Eko could have been searching for the island itself.


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## mjh (Dec 19, 2002)

GDG76 said:


> I can't think of a reason they would pull on his brother. They gained nothing by doing it.


OK. I'm smeeking. I got through page 6 and stopped looking for an answer to this question. But here's what I think it is. The army guys knew that one of the "priests" turned the other two in. Obviously, the one left behind would be the turner-inner. So, by kicking him off of the plane, Eko was a good guy in the minds of the army dudes.

Eko even says that the guy who kicked him off the plane saved his life. Of course, this could be because he didn't end up on that ill-fated plane, the act of kicking him off accidentally saved his life.

I don't know. I like to think that the gold toothed guy knew that Eko would be safe on the ground.... yeah, probably not.

Ok. I got nuthin.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I think the "saved my life" comment was because Eko was essentially reborn from that moment. He realized that his brother took a bullet for him, he realized the error of his ways, and he turned his life around. Had it not been for the guy kicking him off the plane, Eko's life would not have been "saved."


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Some of you guys are just reading WAY too much into what happens... for example, Eko was kicked out of the plane because they had to take off quickly, IMO. Plain and simple.

Good episode overall, great backstory.

I saw there was somethig in the smoke, but it was hard to see what. I wonder about the significance of it.


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## sonnik (Jul 7, 2000)

How did Desmond get on the island... plane right? We have never seen his plane - correct?


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## Warren (Oct 18, 2001)

I tought he said his boat creashed into the reef.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Yes, on his "Race around the world". As he said to Jack.


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

Due to a weather map in the corner, we couldn't read Walt's response after Michael asked him "Where are you". Could someone please post what Walt (or whoever it is) typed after that?

Thanks!


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## whitson77 (Nov 10, 2002)

MickeS said:


> Some of you guys are just reading WAY too much into what happens... for example, Eko was kicked out of the plane because they had to take off quickly, IMO. Plain and simple.
> 
> Good episode overall, great backstory.
> 
> I saw there was somethig in the smoke, but it was hard to see what. I wonder about the significance of it.


If you hit slow mo on your TIVO you could clearly see pictures of things in Eko's life. The priest who got shot, his brother, a woman screaming, and other shots keep flashing extremely quickly.


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## jfjellstad (May 6, 2002)

modnar said:


> Due to a weather map in the corner, we couldn't read Walt's response after Michael asked him "Where are you". Could someone please post what Walt (or whoever it is) typed after that?


You need to con

(the picture switched to a closeup of Michael at this point, so we don't know what the rest of the sentence is)


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

jfjellstad said:


> You need to con
> 
> (the picture switched to a closeup of Michael at this point, so we don't know what the rest of the sentence is)


You need to com


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## miketx (Sep 22, 2005)

As another person that has read the book "Prey", it provides a very workable (and interesting) explanation for the black smoke. If the writers are thinking about "Prey", there are alot of interesting plot ideas coming up.

Mike


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## thenightfly42 (Mar 5, 2002)

If Charlie starts using again (which, as a storyline, I believe is inevitable), will Mr. Eko feel any guilt? Partially because it was "his heroin" that came to the island. But I can't figure out why Eko gave Charlie the last statue; was it a kind gesture, figuring he needed to keep it around, or was it cruel?

I think that the answer to this question might help us determine if his becoming a priest was real or just a front.


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## thenightfly42 (Mar 5, 2002)

flyersfan said:


> Did anyone notice they rewrote the history of Sayid and Charlie finding the plane? Sayid did NOT show him the heroin in the original episode. That was rewritten.





Rob Helmerichs said:


> Actually, it was Charlie who rewrote the history.


Did anyone check the transcripts?


Exodus said:


> CHARLIE: Anyone on board?
> 
> SAYID: Two men dressed as priests.
> 
> ...


Doesn't look like a rewrite to me.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

> But I can't figure out why Eko gave Charlie the last statue; was it a kind gesture, figuring he needed to keep it around, or was it cruel?
> 
> I think that the answer to this question might help us determine if his becoming a priest was real or just a front.


Uh... he gave it to Charlie because he had broken the one he had, and he figured Charlie had his own reasons?

Really... you guys gotta stop reading so much into everything...


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

jfjellstad said:


> You need to con
> 
> (the picture switched to a closeup of Michael at this point, so we don't know what the rest of the sentence is)


Tnanks jfjellstad and cherry ghost!


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

MickeS said:


> Uh... he gave it to Charlie because he had broken the one he had, and he figured Charlie had his own reasons?
> 
> Really... you guys gotta stop reading so much into everything...


But thats what makes it sooooo much fun!!!!!!


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## mohler7154 (Mar 7, 2005)

Isnt it kind of foolish not to keep the heroin for jack to use for medical purposes. It would work in a pinch.


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## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

Finally watched the episode tonight. I hate when I wait so long cause this thread takes so long to read. anyway:



sonnik said:


> T The second would be Eko's brother, who did not want him to get on the little yellow plane. Either these two individuals had visions about planes being taken down, or received information from Dharma individuals in the outside world.


I don't think this is correct.



jradford said:


> Right, same way I saw it. Gold-tooth kicked him off for what could be a variety of reasons, (the one I assumed was that he knew the military would be looking for 3 men, and that 1 priest was clean.) When he was given this 2nd chance, whether gold-tooth intended this or not (I do not think he did), he was able to change his life.


I agree with your last sentence, but not the first (your assumption).



smickola said:


> OK, here's what's bothering me with this, there's one guy missing. Yes, other than the priest (Eko's brother) there were 3 men to start with...Eko, and his two flunkies who had come around to the church with him..."gold tooth" and one other guy.
> 
> But when the military guys came and started firing at the plane, "other guy" got shot down just before Eko's brother did. Then "gold tooth" got on the plane, pulled on Eko's brother, and kicked Eko off. We never saw "other guy" get on the plane...so were there 3 men on the plane?? Maybe there was another person already on the plane prior to "gold tooth" boarding? I think there must have been, because when Sayid came across the plane in the jungle, he specifically said there were a "couple of priests" in the plane. If "gold tooth" had parachuted out and wasn't in the plane, and "other guy" was shot down and never made it to the plane, who was the other priest's body that Sayid found?





Cragmyre said:


> I think there was a pilot on board too. But that is just conjecture


My thoughts too.



ScottE22 said:


> Hmm - I didn't get that at all. I thought Eko's colleague was doing a "screw you - it's all mine now" kind of thing. Of course, that did leave me wondering why he took the dead brother...
> 
> Edited to Add: I'm gonna need to get high-def. In regular def, I didn't see a single image of anything in the smoke/cloud/Prey monster even after I went back and knew they were there!!


1. I think he took the brother, because it was easier and faster. Eko was trying to get his brother on the plane. Gold tooth helped because it was faster than trying to prevent them both from getting on. Once the brother was on board, it was easy for him to kick Eko off. He knew the brother would die (or he would kill him) and one less person on board (Eko) would be one less share of the loot.

2. I have regular definition and saw every image. When it first happened I knew I saw something, so we rewound it and went through the fog in slo-motion. Every face/symbol was crystal clear.



NoThru22 said:


> I can't believe people are thinking the gold toothed guy kicked him out the plane to save his life. He kicked him out of the plane to keep his drugs. It's that simple. That's like saying the military guys were shooting at them because they "wanted to be friends."





JYoung said:


> Sir, you are a voice of reason.
> I don't understand why there is an arguement on this.


Agree with both.



whitson77 said:


> If you hit slow mo on your TIVO you could clearly see pictures of things in Eko's life. The priest who got shot, his brother, a woman screaming, and other shots keep flashing extremely quickly.


Exactly.

I know someone else mentioned it, but I still can't believe:

1. Michael doesn't tell anyone else he's talking to his son (regardless of the fact that they're not supposed to use it). Clearly the last sentence that was being typed was something to the effect of "you need to come get me". Doesn't he think it will be easier to go get him if he has other people helping him. Wouldn't you want Eko, Sayid and Sawyer to help you against the others?

2. That he actually thinks he's talking to his son. How old is that kid? 11? How many 11 year olds have perfect sentence structure and spelling? He used the word "they're" correctly with the apostrophe and everything. The text was too polished for a kid.


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## TIVOSciolist (Oct 13, 2003)

hefe said:


> I agree with this. Something in him can't let go totally, and it comforts him to know it is available if and when he REALLY needs it.


Charlie keeping the heroin but not using it is kind of like the soon-to-be married guy hiding his stash of naked pictures of his old girlfriends.

Both very understandable acts under the circumstances.



jubrand said:


> Ranch goes with everything!


I'd be less upset if it had it been Italian dressing.


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

spartanstew said:


> How many 11 year olds have perfect sentence structure and spelling? He used the word "they're" correctly with the apostrophe and everything. The text was too polished for a kid.


This is very close to a perfect post.

I have spent many hundreds of hours in recent years talking with people about our educational system, working with groups, trying to help shape an understanding that our declining expectations of the system are leading us to the point of dooming our children to a lower-than-third-world existence.

Many of the sub-educated kids I feared for are now adults, crippling their own children now, and the expectations are no longer simply declining, they are nearing absolute zero.

You have said the truth better than I have ever been able.


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## Waldorf (Oct 4, 2002)

Redux said:


> This is very close to a perfect post.
> 
> I have spent many hundreds of hours in recent years talking with people about our educational system, working with groups, trying to help shape an understanding that our declining expectations of the system are leading us to the point of dooming our children to a lower-than-third-world existence.
> 
> ...


They should do a 20/20 episode about this.


----------



## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

Waldorf said:


> They should do a 20/20 episode about this.


Well, Walt has lived in Europe most of his life, and recently moved to Australia, so he hasn't been in the American school system. Maybe that explains his good grammar.


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## Grumpy Pants (Jul 1, 2002)

JakeyB said:


> I agree completely. He was obviously high while talking to Jin and what "renewed faith" would lead him to keep 10 ish of the statues? And even if he wasn't using before, he will be now that he's been rejected by Claire.


Sorry if I am smeeking here but what else is there to do on that island? I say cut it up and smoke it up Charlie!!!!

Let loose


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

People always underestimate the intelligence of kids. Walt does not seem like a stupid kid to me. I don't think that his sentence struture is supposed to be a clue that it's not him. I don't think it's him simply because of the coincidence, not because he can't type like that.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

NoThru22 said:


> People always underestimate the intelligence of kids. Walt does not seem like a stupid kid to me. I don't think that his sentence struture is supposed to be a clue that it's not him. I don't think it's him simply because of the coincidence, not because he can't type like that.


My grammar was better when I was Walt's age than it is now.


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## Regina (Mar 30, 2003)

Ok, I read all the posts (so far) and I can't believe no one has brought this up: who feels cheated that we didn't see what happened in the jungle with Jack and Ana-Lucia? IIRC, the last new ep last year ended with their seeing each other in the jungle. Now they're back and Jin and Sun are introducing themselves, giving Ana a fish, Jack's talking to Michael about Walt, giving Sawyer his meds...  
What happened???
Do you think they'll ever show us?  
And I definitely think "The Others" are baiting Michael, and I think Desmond's partner used the computer to contact the outside world, and The Others found out where he was and came and took him. That's why Desmond was so scared. Well, that and the lack of REM sleep!


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I am so amazed at what is 'overlooked' and forgotten on the Island. And what is just not talked about amongst themselves.

My mind keeps going back to the cable on the beach that Sayid found and even more recently, the Dharma RX injection that Desmond took. Jack must have found it. Was it just vitamins? Pretty odd. And there was nothing on the film about it either.

What else has been found and then never mentioned again?


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

betts4 said:


> My mind keeps going back to the cable on the beach that Sayid found and even more recently, the Dharma RX injection that Desmond took. Jack must have found it. Was it just vitamins? Pretty odd. And there was nothing on the film about it either.


I assumed that was some type of stimulant as I figure that he wasn't getting a lot of sleep since Kelvin "left".

BTW,
Eko makes the third cold blooded murderer that was on Flight 815 although he might be the only one who's shown remorse.


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

JYoung said:


> BTW,
> Eko makes the third cold blooded murderer that was on Flight 815 although he might be the only one who's shown remorse.


Isn't he the fourth (at least)?

Sawyer - fake Sawyer in Australia
Kate - step(biological)father
Ana-Lucia - man who shot her and killed her baby
Eko - Old man and others


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

me flunk first grade math


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

Regina said:


> IIRC, the last new ep last year ended with their seeing each other in the jungle.


That was the end of episode 8. The new episode was episode 10. You must've missed episode 9, which was the Ana-Lucia flashback episode. By the end of that, Jack and AnaL are having a drink, like when they first met.


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## SonBern (Feb 23, 2005)

Do we know how the gold-toothed guy died? This may have been discussed before. Are we to assume he died by hitting the trees after parachuting? Or did something kill him as he was hanging around in the trees while trying to get out of his harness?


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

NoThru22 said:


> That was the end of episode 8. The new episode was episode 10. You must've missed episode 9, which was the Ana-Lucia flashback episode. By the end of that, Jack and AnaL are having a drink, like when they first met.


Episode 8 was the AL flashback. Episode 9 was "What Kate Did".


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Are there any main characters left that we don't know the full backstory of yet?

You missing a little on Kate right, but who else? Rose and Bernard?


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## smickola (Nov 17, 2004)

We're missing the end of Jack's backstory, we don't know how his marriage broke up and ended.

And of course we don't know how Locke lost the use of his legs.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

MikeMar said:


> Are there any main characters left that we don't know the full backstory of yet?
> 
> You missing a little on Kate right, but who else? Rose and Bernard?


No backstory on Libby yet, but I'm not sure if we'll get one.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

Why wouldn't we get a Libby back story? She's in the main credits now and not even Rose and Bernard could claim that (and I'm sure they'll get an episode one of these days too. The Others didn't come for Bernard, you'll notice.)


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Upcoming backstories:

The next 5 episode titles, with the character whose backstory is involved...


Spoiler



18 Jan 06 - The Hunting Party - Jack
25 Jan 06 - Fire + Water - Charlie
8 Feb 06 - Before the End - Locke
15 Feb 06 - One of Them - Sayid
22 Feb 06 - Maternity Leave - Claire


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

kjnorman said:


> They could have just shot a log...


Is that a euphamism?


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## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

modnar said:


> Due to a weather map in the corner, we couldn't read Walt's response after Michael asked him "Where are you". Could someone please post what Walt (or whoever it is) typed after that?


Here's a screen cap.



miketx said:


> As another person that has read the book "Prey", it provides a very workable (and interesting) explanation for the black smoke. If the writers are thinking about "Prey", there are alot of interesting plot ideas coming up.


Doesn't need to be from _Prey_; it could be a utility fog.


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## bryan314 (Nov 17, 2004)

MikeMar said:


> Are there any main characters left that we don't know the full backstory of yet?
> 
> You missing a little on Kate right, but who else? Rose and Bernard?


I don't think we'll see backstories on Rose and Bernard anytime soon. While I don't think they're 'Others' I do think they were part of the original Dharma project.


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## Regina (Mar 30, 2003)

NoThru22 said:


> That was the end of episode 8. The new episode was episode 10. You must've missed episode 9, which was the Ana-Lucia flashback episode. By the end of that, Jack and AnaL are having a drink, like when they first met.


Ok, so I don't recall correctly!  
Thanx NoThru22! I'll have to re-watch those eps..I did see them, but a girl forgets sometimes!
I love this forum! :up: :up:


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

bryan314 said:


> I don't think we'll see backstories on Rose and Bernard anytime soon. While I don't think they're 'Others' I do think they were part of the original Dharma project.


I am going to make some speculation on some of thier story below...



Spoiler



I think Bernard was a VERY BAD PERSON in his past and has recently changed. Maybe he was in a near death experience. Remember that Rose was sure he wasn't dead, maybe since he has already died. Then the 'Others' didn't try to take him, and they were looking for 'good' people. He might even be an unethical scientist or something wacky like that. Maybe in a Dharma related company


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## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

So I don't know if this theory's been floated about - I suspect it has. If so, feel free to smack me like a disobedient puppy.

It appears the smoke monster/security system essentially detects motion. People have talked about who it attacks/doesn't attack based on their emotions, but perhaps it's much simpler than that. Although this explanation does NOT explain why people see things in it (assuming Locke saw something - we know Eko did).

Cases in point:
- During the initial crash, when the slo-mo clips show it hitting the plane's engine - well, the engine is rotating very fast, so it would be a preferential target for the smoke.
- Locke's first encounter: he froze and so survived.
- The pilot: climbing around, thrashing - he got mauled.
- Artz being chased by it on the way to the Black Rock: it chased him as he ran, then it moved off after everyone froze (go back and watch Exodus Part 1)
- Locke's second encounter (after visiting the black rock): he was moving, so got snagged and dragged
- Eko: he froze, so survived.

Just an idea.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Big_Daddy said:


> - Locke's first encounter: he froze and so survived.
> - The pilot: climbing around, thrashing - he got mauled.
> - Artz being chased by it on the way to the Black Rock: it chased him as he ran, then it moved off after everyone froze (go back and watch Exodus Part 1)
> - Locke's second encounter (after visiting the black rock): he was moving, so got snagged and dragged
> - Eko: he froze, so survived.


I was thinking that this thing must sort of feed off the fear of the person. When Locke and Eko survived, neither really seemed to be afraid. The thing looked to be "reading" Eko, looking inside his mind or emotions or something.

Of course, I don't know what any of it could mean.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

hefe said:


> I was thinking that this thing must sort of feed off the fear of the person. When Locke and Eko survived, neither really seemed to be afraid. The thing looked to be "reading" Eko, looking inside his mind or emotions or something.
> 
> Of course, I don't know what any of it could mean.


Exactly. We don't know that Eko saw anything in it. Since we were looking from the creature's perspective I think we were seeing what the creature was seeing in Eko's mind. If we were to believe that Eko saw those images in the creature, we would have seen it from Eko's perspective.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Big_Daddy said:


> So I don't know if this theory's been floated about - I suspect it has. If so, feel free to smack me like a disobedient puppy.
> 
> It appears the smoke monster/security system essentially detects motion. People have talked about who it attacks/doesn't attack based on their emotions, but perhaps it's much simpler than that. Although this explanation does NOT explain why people see things in it (assuming Locke saw something - we know Eko did).
> 
> ...


So you're saying this smoke monster has the eyesight of a T-Rex?


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## darthrsg (Jul 25, 2005)

i think the shows title says it all.....


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

> So you're saying this smoke monster has the eyesight of a T-Rex?


 Well, if they can crib from _Prey _why not _Jurassic Park_?

And one final note about screen savers and old Apple IIs - I owned one - the only known screensaver you had to buy, and it came in the form of flying toasters.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

JYoung said:


> I think that there's a very simple reason why the cloud didn't attack Eko.
> Fear.
> 
> Eko wasn't afraid of it.
> ...


I hadn't caught up with this (last week's) episode so I'm finishing this thread first before going to next week (won't mention anything from next week).

That's a great idea.. let me extend it a bit..

Maybe the smoke reflects what it's exposed to.. (we see images from Eko's life in it, right? Maybe Locke saw moments from his life as well). As you say, they were curious and at peace, and that's how the smoke acted as well. The pilot, as you say, was screaming and terrified, and maybe the smoke was as well, for the same reason.. Once it had him, he probably wanted to kill it out of panic, and it did the same to him.

Very good idea, and it opens up the possibility that this thing isn't really conscious as much as adopting the behavior/feelings/etc of what's around it.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

mitchb2 said:


> Great episode up until the shark-jumping smoke monster.


See, I think if it had been added now, and we'd never seen anything like it before, then you _might_ be able to argue it was a shark-jumping moment, where they ran out of ideas.. but not only did we see this last season, we saw it quite possibly in the pilot! (see previous posts about the black streak slamming into the engine right before it exploded, and other times we saw a black cloud swoop in).

No way this has jumped the shark.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Big_Daddy said:


> So I don't know if this theory's been floated about - I suspect it has. If so, feel free to smack me like a disobedient puppy.
> 
> It appears the smoke monster/security system essentially detects motion. People have talked about who it attacks/doesn't attack based on their emotions, but perhaps it's much simpler than that. Although this explanation does NOT explain why people see things in it (assuming Locke saw something - we know Eko did).
> 
> ...


Wasn't there another one too? I remember Locke and Hurley together.. Locke said "wait..", and after a few seconds Hurley said "we gotta go!".. Locke held him back, and the monster went off the other way..


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