# Poll: Are You Happy With Your Series 3



## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

This community has many negative posts about Tivo.

A poll of 1,000 people has an accuracy of 97 percent. So lets try to get as many responses as possible.


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## AZ_Tivo (Jan 17, 2005)

PT30 said:


> This community has many negative posts about Tivo.
> 
> A poll of 1,000 people has an accuracy of 97 percent. So lets try to get as many responses as possible.


Instead of a Yes/No, you should do a scale of 1 to 5 as I am at about 3.5 .


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

No complaints here.... my S3 rocks.


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

PT30 said:


> This community has many negative posts about Tivo.
> 
> A poll of 1,000 people has an accuracy of 97 percent. So lets try to get as many responses as possible.


I'm not sure I'd agree with that stat given the method of polling...


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

PT30 said:


> This community has many negative posts about Tivo.


True.



> A poll of 1,000 people has an accuracy of 97 percent. So lets try to get as many responses as possible.


This is an utterly meaningless statement. It might be true if you had a random sample of all members of the TiVo community, but you won't. So really, it's simply apropos of nothing.

Of course 87.3% of statistics are made up anyway.


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## AZ_Tivo (Jan 17, 2005)

pkscout said:


> Of course 87.3% of statistics are made up anyway.


I thought it was 89.2856. I guess it was made up .


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## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

dig_duggler said:


> I'm not sure I'd agree with that stat given the method of polling...


What is wrong with the method? Both happy and unhappy people have equal opportunity to vote.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

A lot more unhappy people come to this forum than happy people it seems.


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## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

pkscout said:


> True.
> 
> This is an utterly meaningless statement. It might be true if you had a random sample of all members of the TiVo community, but you won't. So really, it's simply apropos of nothing.
> 
> Of course 87.3% of statistics are made up anyway.


Why does it have to be ALL? Gallup polls are conducted using a sample size of 1,000 and every Gallup poll I have ever seen quotes a 3 percent error rate.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

PT30 said:


> A poll of 1,000 people has an accuracy of 97 percent. So lets try to get as many responses as possible.


How about a poll of a 1000 random people taken in a men's rest room asking what their sex is. What's the accuracy of that?


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## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

greg_burns said:


> A lot more unhappy people come to this forum than happy people it seems.


Well, so far there are 18 happy votes and no unhappy votes.


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## jtrain (Jan 17, 2006)

S3 coupled with FiOS TV...excellent all the way around!


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

I love my series 3. Now dealing with my cable company on cable cards, that's another matter. My 1 1/2 year old S3 is still a cable card virgin.


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## rodalpho (Sep 12, 2006)

I voted unhappy, due to audio stuttering, intrusive advertising, and general slowness, but in truth I'd be about a 5 on a 10 point scale. I feel that TiVo is by far the best option available, but it's not difficult to imagine it being really dramatically, significantly better.


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## VivaLasVegas (May 17, 2007)

pkscout said:


> Of course 87.3% of statistics are made up anyway.


That's because 5 out of every 4 people have trouble with fractions.


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## VivaLasVegas (May 17, 2007)

rodalpho said:


> I voted unhappy, due to audio stuttering, intrusive advertising, and general slowness, but in truth I'd be about a 5 on a 10 point scale. I feel that TiVo is by far the best option available, but it's not difficult to imagine it being really dramatically, significantly better.


It's not difficult to imagine something better, but I've never used anything better. And I have used worse...


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## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

rodalpho said:


> I voted unhappy, due to audio stuttering, intrusive advertising, and general slowness, but in truth I'd be about a 5 on a 10 point scale. I feel that TiVo is by far the best option available, but it's not difficult to imagine it being really dramatically, significantly better.


Audio stuttering could be caused by your hard drive beginning to show some bad sectors. Have you put it in your PC and scanned it?

The advertising does not bother me, my programs play just fine and that is all I need. But the advertisements generate revenue for Tivo and that will help keep them in business, so I click on the advertisements sometimes.

Reading the threads, people who have got the 9.3 software upgrade say that the speed of everything is improved dramatically.

9.3 should hit all series 3 machines within about the next month.


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## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

PJohnson,

Would you share with us why you voted unhappy?

I see that you have zero posts. Describe your problem and perhaps we can help.


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## ScottEllsworth (Jul 17, 2004)

I should be precise - when the series 3 works, it is a great machine. I have had a string of three failures in a row, the last of which only lasted nine hours, and I was not that happy with how TiVo handled the last problem.

Assuming that TiVo number four shows up, works, and has no substantive problems, then I will likely go back to being happy with it.


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## dwit (May 5, 2004)

Series 3 platform or the secific Series 3 model?


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## rodalpho (Sep 12, 2006)

Audio stuttering is a common issue on the S3 models. Also I have two hard drives, it only happens on certain channels, it happens on both cablecards, and it _doesn't_ happen with a digital cable box.

I've had TiVo since 2000; you don't need to sell me, man.


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## supie (Mar 28, 2007)

Other than missing some features it should have I am very happy with it/them.

Also the Tivo Desktop should be more robust.

I give the S3 a 4 out of 5.


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## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

dwit said:


> Series 3 platform or the secific Series 3 model?


Sorry, I should have been more specific.

I consider the Tivo HD to be a series 3 since no series 2 ever had high definition capability and stores are selling about 95 percent high definition TV's.


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## mohanman (Dec 18, 2007)

I love my series 3, I give it a 10+ but I didn't go through all the messages and see what the point scale was. It's so much better than the comcast box, and dealing with home theater pc crap. Can just use MRV or tivotogo.. easy

Thanks TiVO

Downside.. a little bit expensive!


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

PT30 said:


> What is wrong with the method? Both happy and unhappy people have equal opportunity to vote.


A poll is based on either truly random sampling (and BTW, random is *not* happenstance), or a targeted sample. Never never never is a (real) poll allowed to be done over the internet like this. Theoretically (and I'm pushing the absurd, but it shows my point), one could create a poll, and ask his buddies to all vote, thus skewing the results.

There may be equal opportunity to vote, but there is not equal desire, nor equal sampling. Sorry, defend this all you want, but it ain't a legit poll.



PT30 said:


> PJohnson,
> Would you share with us why you voted unhappy?
> I see that you have zero posts. Describe your problem and perhaps we can help.


How do you know this? Did I miss where this poll showed who voted & how?


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## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

ScottEllsworth said:


> I should be precise - when the series 3 works, it is a great machine. I have had a string of three failures in a row, the last of which only lasted nine hours, and I was not that happy with how TiVo handled the last problem.
> 
> Assuming that TiVo number four shows up, works, and has no substantive problems, then I will likely go back to being happy with it.


Three failures in a row. Are you buying from a reputable dealer? Are you buying used or refurbished product?


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## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

astrohip said:


> A poll is based on either truly random sampling (and BTW, random is *not* happenstance), or a targeted sample.


It has to be a targeted sample because the people need to be Tivo owners. I have no idea what you mean by "happenstance"



astrohip said:


> There may be equal opportunity to vote, but there is not equal desire, nor equal sampling. Sorry, defend this all you want, but it ain't a legit poll.


Again I am baffled by your reasoning. Any respondent to any poll must have a desire to respond, that is a given. Equal sampling? Now you have truly lost me.



astrohip said:


> How do you know this? Did I miss where this poll showed who voted & how?


When viewing the poll results there is a number of responses listed. Clicking on the number shows the names of those who voted and what they voted. Such as this:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=6365


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

AZ_Tivo said:


> Instead of a Yes/No, you should do a scale of 1 to 5 as I am at about 3.5 .


Maybe... however I was just interviewed by "REAL" market research company. They asked me the same question. My only options for them was yes or no.

They also asked if I would purchase again if I had it to do all over again. The answer allowed was Yes or NO.

TGC


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

morac said:


> How about a poll of a 1000 random people taken in a men's rest room asking what their sex is. What's the accuracy of that?


Still not 100%... Especially if the bathroom was at sex change clinic.

TGC


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

morac said:


> How about a poll of a 1000 random people taken in a men's rest room asking what their sex is. What's the accuracy of that?


Not as accurate as you might think....

Ooops....grill chief kinda beat me to it!


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

PT30 said:


> PJohnson,
> 
> Would you share with us why you voted unhappy?
> 
> I see that you have zero posts. Describe your problem and perhaps we can help.


Yet he's been a member for 10 times longer than you....


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

PT30 said:


> This community has many negative posts about Tivo.
> 
> A poll of 1,000 people has an accuracy of 97 percent. So lets try to get as many responses as possible.


Its 111 to 9 now. Looks like the oft repeated premise about negativity is on shaky ground.

I liked my original S3 enough to buy 3 more Series3 Platform TiVo HDs. Please add 3 to the yes column since I could only vote once.


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## pjohnson (Jun 9, 2007)

PT30 said:


> PJohnson,
> 
> Would you share with us why you voted unhappy?
> 
> I see that you have zero posts. Describe your problem and perhaps we can help.


I don't post much (in any) of the websites I follow. This is due to not desiring getting slammed for my views/beliefs/problems. That's why I don't post.

However, since you asked. My issue is not with my S3 hardware (which works fine). Two things have happened to me which has soured me on TIVO and the S3. Note, I have 4 Tivo units starting with the Sony in 2000.

First, I was denied the $200 rebate on the hardware (last Father's day). I guess it was my fault since I didn't follow up with it for 4 months, and then the clearing house said I had not activated the device (I did, the day I received it). It was stated that the promotion was long over and I could not get the rebate. I pursued it, not very vigorously, finally deciding that it just wasn't worth it.

Second, I really dislike the advertisements. It makes it so I don't want to turn on the TV anymore.

I was a huge proponent of Tivo until these two happenings.

Having said all this, I do enjoy this website, and the thoughtful discussion that goes on about SDV, and the like.

Phil


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

A poll like this presupposes several things - none of which are true:

1. The respondents have a S3 - There is nothing to keep those who never even saw a S3 from responding and no way to filter those votes out. 

2. Its likely that users who tried a S3 and didn't like it returned or sold it. Why would they keep something they don't like? Likely those users no longer frequent this forum (if they ever did) and therefore wouldn't be voting. 

3. There is an implicit assumption that the members of this forum who vote in the poll statistically represent the entire base of users who own or ever owned or used a TiVo S3. Maybe so, maybe not. Personally I doubt it.

So the 90+ percentage approval rate of the current results are no surprise.


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## berfy (Apr 24, 2005)

PT30 said:


> Why does it have to be ALL? Gallup polls are conducted using a sample size of 1,000 and every Gallup poll I have ever seen quotes a 3% error rate.


In truly accurate Polling the participants are randomly selected. Thats why they can claim a three percent accuracy rate.

This CANNOT be said of a Poll in this Forum where the participants are NOT randomly chosen but rather volunteer themselves. This completely skews the Polls findings I'm afraid and it's accuracy is nowhere NEAR 3%.


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## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

pjohnson said:


> I don't post much (in any) of the websites I follow. This is due to not desiring getting slammed for my views/beliefs/problems. That's why I don't post.
> 
> However, since you asked. My issue is not with my S3 hardware (which works fine). Two things have happened to me which has soured me on TIVO and the S3. Note, I have 4 Tivo units starting with the Sony in 2000.
> 
> ...


From what you say, apparently you are quite sensitive to "getting slammed". Hopefully, you will not take my comments as "slamming".

You say: "My issue is not with my S3 hardware (which works fine)."

That is good to hear.

On the rebate issue I would say this. ALL rebates from ALL companies have an end date and everyone must file for the rebate by that date. Blaming Tivo for my own failure to send in the rebate by the deadline is something I would never do. As a matter of fact, I too missed out on the $200 Tivo rebate because my 79 year old mother was in a nursing home and in a hospice program and on her death bed for months before the rebate date. A while after she died I noticed that I had missed the rebate date. I do not blame Tivo in any way for my own failure to send in the rebate. I do not believe you should either.

Then you say, "Second, I really dislike the advertisements. It makes it so I don't want to turn on the TV anymore".

I do not understand why anyone would say that. The advertisements are just an entry on a screen that in no way interferes with having all 89 of my seasons passes recorded and ready for me to view, commercial free to boot. (I know that is quite a lot of seasons passes but I have two one terabyte drives on my Tivo and most shows seem to hang around for 12-14 days before they automatically delete)

The advertisements I look at for a few seconds, the commercial free program viewing I look at for many hours. Plus, the advertisements bring in revenue that Tivo desperately needs to stay in business, because so many cable and satellite providers have decided to steal Tivo's technology without paying licensing fees. That is about to change as Dish Network was on this past Monday, turned down for a rehearing and has lost both the original case and the appeal trial.

I welcome the advertisements and click on them to generate additional revenue for Tivo. That will help them stay in business until they get the $240+ million from Dish. The penalty goes up monthly by $6 million. Then Tivo will be ready to go after the cable companies that are infringing on the Tivo patent. You should welcome the advertisements as they help make sure your Tivo that works so well will continue to function.


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## pjohnson (Jun 9, 2007)

Sorry, I don't know how to use the QUOTE stuff.

First on the rebate. I sent in everything on time, and complete. The problem was they said I hadn't enabled the TIVO service in time, which was false (and provable by looking at my TIVO account). They then said, well, too bad, since the promotion had ended, and I should have followed up within 90 days, not after that, so it was too late.

I don't blame TIVO for this, it is just infuriating to lose $200, which was the only reason I sprung for the box at that time. So, it makes me angry when I dwell on it. So I try not to 

You then said about the advertisements:

"I do not understand why anyone would say that. The advertisements are just an entry on a screen that in no way interferes with having all 89 of my seasons passes recorded and ready for me to view, commercial free to boot...."

Sorry, we just disagree about that. I dislike cluttered screens, and when I see the S3 "Tivo Central" screen, I seem to focus on the ads, not the "now playing list" etc. I realize that is the point, but it's annoying, so I try to avoid it.

I like the way the original Sony Tivo ads are much better, since they are not graphically emphasized like on the S3, and hence much easier to ignore.

This is just my opinion, and I realize the ads are more bothersome to me than to most of the populace (including, most likely, my family).

Phil


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## nhaigh (Jul 16, 2001)

I'm really happy with both my S3's and both my S2's. 

I think the TiVo experience is only compromised by the Desktop sofware and its poor transfer performace. Either offer a product that reliably transfers to the TiVo or don't. I still don't understand how TiVo cannot do this as least as well as others on the Net attempting the exact same thing.


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## VivaLasVegas (May 17, 2007)

RoyK said:


> A poll like this presupposes several things - none of which are true:
> 
> 1. The respondents have a S3 - There is nothing to keep those who never even saw a S3 from responding and no way to filter those votes out.


Yes, there's a poll in the Comcast w/TiVo forum on this site and there are people voting (both positively and negatively) who don't own one and have never used one.


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## eabu (Jan 14, 2008)

pjohnson said:


> First on the rebate. I sent in everything on time, and complete. The problem was they said I hadn't enabled the TIVO service in time, which was false (and provable by looking at my TIVO account). They then said, well, too bad, since the promotion had ended, and I should have followed up within 90 days, not after that, so it was too late.
> 
> I don't blame TIVO for this, it is just infuriating to lose $200, which was the only reason I sprung for the box at that time. So, it makes me angry when I dwell on it. So I try not to


Someone did not do their job correctly at TiVo and it cost YOU $200. This is TiVo's fault and I would be pissed too. To even blame you for not catching their mistake within 90 days is absurd. $200 is a lot of money.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I'm extremely happy with my seven S3/TiVoHD boxes!


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

PT30--I'm not sure of your point to all this. You create a poll, and defend its validity even when all others continue to show you why it is not valid. Then when anyone posts a problem, you reply with statements like, "Are you buying from a reputable dealer?". You appear to be defending TiVo beyond the pale, for reasons unknown to man. I am as big a fan as they come (note I have TWO S3s), but I feel no need to defend TiVo. I love the products, encourage people to get one, answer questions about problems--but I don't defend it in the arena like you appear to be doing.

And you're a very new user with very few posts. What gives?



> When viewing the poll results there is a number of responses listed. Clicking on the number shows the names of those who voted and what they voted. Such as this:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=6365


Learn something new all the time. Thanks!


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## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

pjohnson said:


> First on the rebate. I sent in everything on time, and complete. The problem was they said I hadn't enabled the TIVO service in time, which was false (and provable by looking at my TIVO account). They then said, well, too bad, since the promotion had ended, and I should have followed up within 90 days, not after that, so it was too late.
> 
> I don't blame TIVO for this, it is just infuriating to lose $200, which was the only reason I sprung for the box at that time. So, it makes me angry when I dwell on it. So I try not to Phil


Now I understand. Thanks for explaining it.



pjohnson said:


> Sorry, we just disagree about that. I dislike cluttered screens, and when I see the S3 "Tivo Central" screen, I seem to focus on the ads, not the "now playing list" etc. I realize that is the point, but it's annoying, so I try to avoid it.Phil


Two quick punches on the Tivo button brings you instantly to the now playing screen. That will help you avoid the ads on the Tivo central screen. Also, since I have a 65" TV the print is nice and big so the clutter does not bother me in the least.

Thanks for explaining.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

astrohip said:


> PT30--I'm not sure of your point to all this. You create a poll, and defend its validity even when all others continue to show you why it is not valid. Then when anyone posts a problem, you reply with statements like, "Are you buying from a reputable dealer?". You appear to be defending TiVo beyond the pale, for reasons unknown to man. I am as big a fan as they come (note I have TWO S3s), but I feel no need to defend TiVo. I love the products, encourage people to get one, answer questions about problems--but I don't defend it in the arena like you appear to be doing.
> 
> And you're a very new user with very few posts. What gives?


Based on some posting in the Tivo/E* thread, it sounds like PT30 is the latest incarnation of the HPD/bobneth/George Winston/netsurfer troll.

I've been labeled as an unconvertable Tivo apologist/fanboy on many occasions, and even I think that posts like his are "over the top". 

As annoying as he is, you've got to admire his dedication to being an annoying twit to keep on coming back over and over and over again.


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## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

nhaigh said:


> I'm really happy with both my S3's and both my S2's.
> 
> I think the TiVo experience is only compromised by the Desktop software and its poor transfer performance. Either offer a product that reliably transfers to the TiVo or don't. I still don't understand how TiVo cannot do this as least as well as others on the Net attempting the exact same thing.


As an avid reader of this forum for at least four years, I can tell you that the problem is not with Tivo Desktop. Many others have posted that when they use applications such as Tivo Playlist, a non Tivo product, their transfers still fail.

It appears that transfer worked quite well before software version 9.2. TivoJerry is a Tivo employee and he has reported on this forum as recently as 1 month ago that they are having great success in fixing the problem. I have already read of at least three people on this forum that their transfers are working great now that they have been upgraded to 9.3 on their machines. So the problem is not with Tivo desktop.

If past experience is any indicator, it means that within about the next six weeks, all series 2 and series 3 machines will be upgraded to 9.3.


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## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

VivaLasVegas said:


> Yes, there's a poll in the Comcast w/TiVo forum on this site and there are people voting (both positively and negatively) who don't own one and have never used one.


How do you know this?


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## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

eabu said:


> Someone did not do their job correctly at TiVo and it cost YOU $200. This is TiVo's fault and I would be pissed too. To even blame you for not catching their mistake within 90 days is absurd. $200 is a lot of money.


In his first post he mentioned a "clearing house"

We have to be accurate in assigning blame. Many people do not know that most corporations hire clearing houses to handle rebates. So the clearing house is most likely the one to blame. It sounds to me like they misrepresented the facts, saying he did not activate his Tivo and that the clearing house probably processed the claim and kept the $200 from Tivo. I have read that sneaky things like this do happen at some clearing houses. Tivo probably does not even know about the problem. I would call Tivo.


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## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

aaronwt said:


> I'm extremely happy with my seven S3/TiVoHD boxes!


Wow, seven? Big family or big house?


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## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

astrohip said:


> PT30--I'm not sure of your point to all this. You create a poll, and defend its validity even when all others continue to show you why it is not valid.


I have not yet seen anyone make truly valid points, certainly not "all others" as you claim.



astrohip said:


> Then when anyone posts a problem, you reply with statements like, "Are you buying from a reputable dealer?


I asked the question to a person who said he had three defective units in a row. As a reader of this forum for at least four years, I know that is extremely far from the norm. I also know that there are companies that buy up returns and open box items and sell them as new, or worse yet, refurbished. I was asking that he tell us something about his point of purchase, there by maybe getting to the crux of his problems.



astrohip said:


> You appear to be defending TiVo beyond the pale, for reasons unknown to man. I am as big a fan as they come (note I have TWO S3s), but I feel no need to defend TiVo. I love the products, encourage people to get one, answer questions about problems--but I don't defend it in the arena like you appear to be doing.


Have I really said anything unreasonable?


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## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

RoyK said:


> 1. The respondents have a S3 - There is nothing to keep those who never even saw a S3 from responding and no way to filter those votes out.


While that is true, the same can be said of any kind of poll, whether it be a phone survey or whatever, for any kind of product. And you assume that there are enough of those kind of votes to materially change the outcome of the poll, currently running at 93 percent happy, an overwhelming majority.



RoyK said:


> 2. Its likely that users who tried a S3 and didn't like it returned or sold it. Why would they keep something they don't like? Likely those users no longer frequent this forum (if they ever did) and therefore wouldn't be voting.


The point is that there is not much to dislike. As so many people writing on many of these threads talk about how terrible many other DVR's are. They love their Tivo's.



RoyK said:


> 3. There is an implicit assumption that the members of this forum who vote in the poll statistically represent the entire base of users who own or ever owned or used a TiVo S3. Maybe so, maybe not. Personally I doubt it.


No poll can ever be absolutely perfect. But with 93 percent voting happy, there is nothing vague about the results. They offer insight into what people think of their Tivo's.


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## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

berfy said:


> In truly accurate Polling the participants are randomly selected. Thats why they can claim a three percent accuracy rate.
> 
> This CANNOT be said of a Poll in this Forum where the participants are NOT randomly chosen but rather volunteer themselves. This completely skews the Polls findings I'm afraid and it's accuracy is nowhere NEAR 3%.


But truly, even in a Gallup poll, every respondent is truly a volunteer. If they were not volunteers then they would simply refuse to respond.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

PT30 said:


> Wow, seven? Big family or big house?


Unfortunately neither. I have 5 at my condo, and two at my girlfriends house.


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## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

aaronwt said:


> Unfortunately neither. I have 5 at my condo, and two at my girlfriends house.


I see in your signature, 2xWD 1TB, I assume that is in the same machine. I just recently upgraded to 2 TB in the same machine. Do you agree with me that is way more TV than you can find time to watch? If I had to do it over again I probably would have gone with the 250 GB original plus the 1 TB.


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## berfy (Apr 24, 2005)

PT30 said:


> But truly, even in a Gallup poll, every respondent is truly a volunteer. If they were not volunteers then they would simply refuse to respond.


You're COMPLETELY missing the point. In a Gallup Poll, those who agree to participate have been RANDOMLY selected.

That is most certainly NOT the case for this Poll.

Please do a little study of Statistical analysis and get back to me.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

PT30 said:


> But truly, even in a Gallup poll, every respondent is truly a volunteer. If they were not volunteers then they would simply refuse to respond.


Do you not understand the difference between agreeing to answer questions as part of a randomly selected pool and a self selected pool open to anyone? Two completely different cans of worms.


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## TI-82 (Jan 16, 2008)

PT30 said:


> But truly, even in a Gallup poll, every respondent is truly a volunteer. If they were not volunteers then they would simply refuse to respond.


You understand very little about polls.

There's a reason that every poll on a reputable news website must include the caviat "This is not a scientific poll."

You should read more about these inaccuracies before you send your resume to Gallup.


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## ldudek (Sep 2, 2007)

I've been happy with my S3 since day one. Before eSATA, MRV, TTG, TTCB and all the other goodies they've added on. Why was I happy? Because it worked.

Now that I have a TiVo HD as well I've got the best of both worlds.


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## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

berfy said:


> You're COMPLETELY missing the point. In a Gallup Poll, those who agree to participate have been RANDOMLY selected.
> 
> That is most certainly NOT the case for this Poll.


I think you are missing the point. How can it be any more random? I have no control over who votes and neither does anyone else. Emphazining the word random does not prove anything.

When you say "That is most certainly NOT the case for this Poll" you make a flat out statement but you offer nothing to explain why.


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## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

GoHokies! said:


> Do you not understand the difference between agreeing to answer questions as part of a randomly selected pool and a self selected pool open to anyone? Two completely different cans of worms.


"Randomly selected pool" = dial a random phone number and ask your poll question.

"Self selected pool open to anyone" is the same as above, I am just not dialing phone numbers.

In the randomly selected pool the responses come from random people. Same as '"selected pool open to anyone"


----------



## berfy (Apr 24, 2005)

PT30 said:


> I think you are missing the point. How can it be any more random? I have no control over who votes and neither does anyone else. Emphazining the word random does not prove anything.
> 
> When you say "That is most certainly NOT the case for this Poll" you make a flat out statement but you offer nothing to explain why.


The people who participate at TCF were NOT randomly selected. They Voluntarily joined this forum and therefore they are NOT a statistically valid sampling which is what you need to make a poll worth paying attention to.

Frankly you're just being obstinate. SEVERAL people have pointed out the OBVIOUS flaw in your Poll and you simply refuse to see it.

I have worked in the Statistical field for many years and I DO know of what I speak.


PT30 said:


> Emphazining the word random does not prove anything..


This is just a silly statement. "Randomness" is at the very heart of statistics. Without it, you simply don't have a valid statistic.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

PT30 said:


> I see in your signature, 2xWD 1TB, I assume that is in the same machine. I just recently upgraded to 2 TB in the same machine. Do you agree with me that is way more TV than you can find time to watch? If I had to do it over again I probably would have gone with the 250 GB original plus the 1 TB.


I only have one drive with each machine. My signature was near it's limit so 2x just means two identical systems. I don't plan on having more than one drive with each machine. I have several Terabytes for a TiVo server plus three times that for a media server now., So any shows I want to keep I have plenty of storage for them. SInce TiVo Desktop allows easy transfers for permanent storage.


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## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

TI-82 said:


> You understand very little about polls.
> 
> There's a reason that every poll on a reputable news website must include the caviat "This is not a scientific poll."
> 
> You should read more about these inaccuracies before you send your resume to Gallup.


It is all about the numbers. Mathematical equations show that given two answers for your possible vote, a sample size of 1,000 people has an accuracy rating of + or - 3 percent.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

PT30 said:


> No poll can ever be absolutely perfect. But with 93 percent voting happy, there is nothing vague about the results. They offer insight into what people think of their Tivo's.


Shrug. This poll in this forum is just like going to a baseball game and asking the people in the bleachers if they like baseball. You'll find the occasional spouse who doesn't like it but came with the wife/hubby. The rest are there because they like baseball.


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## enthalpy (Oct 11, 2006)

Good idea for this poll, I keep seeing complaints too.

I like my S3. It replaced a motorola HD box from the cable company. Such an improvement, how can I not like it?


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## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

berfy said:


> The people who participate at TCF were NOT randomly selected. They Voluntarily joined this forum and therefore they are NOT a statistically valid sampling which is what you need to make a poll worth paying attention to.
> 
> Frankly you're just being obstinate. SEVERAL people have pointed out the OBVIOUS flaw in your Poll and you simply refuse to see it.


What we need to get a stictically valid sample is people who own Tivo's. Hello TCF. Just because they joined TCF does not mean that it is not a random sample. Everybody has their own reason for joining, some to solve problems, some just for curiosity. It is still a random sample.

I am not trying to be obstinate, I call it having a conversation, just like the ones you have with your friends, the only difference is we do not know each other.

Can't several people be wrong? Gallop polls require 1,000 responses to achieve 97 percent accuracy. So what does several people guarantee? Answer, probably not much accuracy. Saying that several people against one makes the one wrong makes no sense from a statistical standpoint. Surely you should know that with your statistical background.


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## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

enthalpy said:


> Good idea for this poll, I keep seeing complaints too.
> 
> I like my S3. It replaced a motorola HD box from the cable company. Such an improvement, how can I not like it?


I think so too. There are several people here who seem awfully eager to discredit the poll. One of them asked me why I was defending Tivo. The real question is why are they so eager to discredit this poll?

After four+ years of reading this forum, I think I can safely say that nearly everyone hates the Motorola box.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Member "s3victim" voted no. That's a shocker!


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## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

MickeS said:


> Member "s3victim" voted no. That's a shocker!


He voted no but what he is really pissed off at is his cable company for switching to SDV, limiting the HD channels he can receive with Tivo. Can't really count his vote, not a Tivo problem.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=388419


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

PT30 said:


> The real question is why are they so eager to discredit this poll?


All I see is people discrediting your very silly statement that the poll will be "97% accurate" as long as you get 1000 responses.


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## rodalpho (Sep 12, 2006)

The poll should be discredited because it's self-selecting, because the initial post's wording is biased towards inducing people happy with their S3s to post, and because you do things like "discarding" votes because it's not really tivo's fault. But most importantly these forums aren't representative because the vast majority of tivo owners don't post here. If TiVo created a poll on the home screen saying "are you happy, yes/no" that could be considered representative.

The poll can be considered an accurate measure of TCF forum members' satisfaction, that's it.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

I'm gonna create a poll asking if PT30 and Visionary are related. Then I'll spread the word in some high-traffic areas (Happy Hour) and encourage the good natured residents there to vote yes. But no one who sees this poll here will know that. 

When 985/1000 vote YES--allowing for a 3% deviation--can we assume that it's a legit poll, and they are related? It's unanimous, isn't it? Statistically speaking, that is.

PT30--the problem with pretending to be an expert in *anything* on TCF is that there are probably 25+ people who really are experts in whatever BS you're selling that day. Berfy says he's in statistics, and I was a math major who was required to take more stats than I care to remember.

I vote you're visionary's 2nd cousin, once removed, twice committed.


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## ScottEllsworth (Jul 17, 2004)

PT30 said:


> Three failures in a row. Are you buying from a reputable dealer? Are you buying used or refurbished product?


Is TiVo itself a reputable dealer?

The first one came straight from TiVo. It lasted ~ a year.

The second one came from TiVo when the first one died. It lasted ~2 months.

The third one came from TiVo when the second one died. It lasted ~9 hours.

Number four will be winging its way towards me once I mail the failed one back on Monday. Let's hope this series does not continue in the way it is going.

(Oh, and before you point out that TiVo sends out refurbs as warranty replacements, that is a business decision on their part. They decide how much they care about customer complaints, and angry customers with multiple failures vs how much they want to spend on either new product, or on bench testing refurbs before sending them out.)

Scott


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

rodalpho said:


> ......... If TiVo created a poll on the home screen saying "are you happy, yes/no" that could be considered representative.


If you were trying to poll those who currently own and use the product, yes that would be much closer to representative.

If you were trying to get a true "happiness" level poll then it wouldn't because many of those who haven't been satisfied would likely have gotten rid of their units or no longer use them and wouldn't be included.

Even getting a list of people who have activated S3 units and calling them at random wouldn't be accurate since there are those who have problems or decide they don't like the product during the initial 30 day trial and never activate.

The best way to get an accurate poll is to randomly call the population at large, ask if they now own or have ever owned an S3 and what their satisfaction level is/was. That would be an expensive proposition given the large number of calls that would need to be made to find even 1000 who are willing to be questioned and who qualify.


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## VivaLasVegas (May 17, 2007)

PT30 said:


> How do you know this?


You can read the thread for yourself. Comcast's HD DVR w/Tivo is only available in New England right now. If you look at who voted and how - and if you believe their profiles as to where they live - there's no way that they have one.

Despite the lengthy discussion on accuracy, I still find both polls' results interesting. Maybe that's b/c we don't represent the average user. When you read these forums you see a lot of griping. It's a good reminder when I see that the same group that complains so much is still so happy overall with their Tivo's. All the fuss seems to be b/c we're so passionate about them!


----------



## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

wmcbrine said:


> All I see is people discrediting your very silly statement that the poll will be "97% accurate" as long as you get 1000 responses.


Gallup polls use a sample size of 1,000. The Gallop acuracy for predicting elections results fall with + or - 3 percent, even though some people might change their vote right before the election.

You offer no reason why it is "silly". Isn't that silly?


----------



## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

rodalpho said:


> The poll should be discredited because it's self-selecting, because the initial post's wording is biased towards inducing people happy with their S3s to post


That is just the way you interpret it. The post said,



PT30 said:


> A poll of 1,000 people has an accuracy of 97 percent. So lets try to get as many responses as possible.


In other words, lets try to get lots of responses to improve accuracy.



rodalpho said:


> and because you do things like "discarding" votes because it's not really tivo's fault.


For the one poster i said that about, he had only three posts, it was clear his main complaint was that his cable company is switching to SDV and preventing him from receiving HD signals. That happened after Tivo made the Series 3 therefore Tivo should not be blamed.



rodalpho said:


> But most importantly these forums aren't representative because the vast majority of tivo owners don't post here.


That is just plain 100 percent wrong. The Gallup poll has great accuracy at predicting election results with a sample size of 1,000 which is far short from the tens of millions who actually vote in the election. The "vast majority" do not need to be polled.


----------



## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

astrohip said:


> I'm gonna create a poll asking if PT30 and Visionary are related. Then I'll spread the word in some high-traffic areas (Happy Hour) and encourage the good natured residents there to vote yes. But no one who sees this poll here will know that.
> 
> When 985/1000 vote YES--allowing for a 3% deviation--can we assume that it's a legit poll, and they are related? It's unanimous, isn't it? Statistically speaking, that is.


Your reasoning has a fatal flaw. The respondents to your poll would be making guesses as to whether Visionary and I are the same person. When you ask a person if they are happy or unhappy with their Tivo, there is no guessing involved on their part.


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## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

ScottEllsworth said:


> Is TiVo itself a reputable dealer?
> 
> The first one came straight from TiVo. It lasted ~ a year.
> 
> ...


What kind of problems and on which machine?


----------



## rodalpho (Sep 12, 2006)

PT30 said:


> That is just plain 100 percent wrong. The Gallup poll has great accuracy at predicting election results with a sample size of 1,000 which is far short from the tens of millions who actually vote in the election. The "vast majority" do not need to be polled.


You misunderstood; you don't need to poll a majority of users, but you do need to talk to a representative sample, and these forums are not representative.

Anyway, I'm being pulled into a flamewar over something that I truly don't care about, so at this point I'll bow out of this thread.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

PT30 said:


> That is just plain 100 percent wrong. The Gallup poll has great accuracy at predicting election results with a sample size of 1,000 which is far short from the tens of millions who actually vote in the election. The "vast majority" do not need to be polled.


That's because Gallup uses proven statistical methods and takes great care to ensure that their 1,000 respondents are a random sample of the population.

Your little "poll" does no such thing, and therefore has no calculateable margin of error.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

rodalpho said:


> Anyway, I'm being pulled into a flamewar over something that I truly don't care about, so at this point I'll bow out of this thread.


+1

It's obvious that PT30 is just here to cause a disruption and not have a discussion. :down:


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## ldudek (Sep 2, 2007)

I think I got here via a link from the TiVo thread. I'm not sure if it's still there but I know it was at one time.

I have no proof to offer but I don't really believe that the majority of TiVo owners don't know about this forum.

Can anyone show me proof that they aren't aware of this forum? No? Then to make a flat out statement that the majority of TiVo owners don't know about this forum cannot be accepted as fact anymore then my statement that the majority of TiVo owners do know about this forum.

I think a lot of them don't participate or join because of all the negativity in here. Just my opinion, not a fact. 

I also think that some people really got upset to see someone do a positive thread and actually see it stay on the front page for a couple of days. I won't mention any names because it's not necessary.

And even if this is just a representation of TiVo Forum members, lookl like a lot of happy people to me.

Nice poll, GoHokies!


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## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

VivaLasVegas said:


> You can read the thread for yourself. Comcast's HD DVR w/Tivo is only available in New England right now. If you look at who voted and how - and if you believe their profiles as to where they live - there's no way that they have one.
> 
> Despite the lengthy discussion on accuracy, I still find both polls' results interesting. Maybe that's b/c we don't represent the average user. When you read these forums you see a lot of griping. It's a good reminder when I see that the same group that complains so much is still so happy overall with their Tivo's. All the fuss seems to be b/c we're so passionate about them!


To judge how many may have voted without owning, where can I find that thread?

How do we know for sure that Comcast is only in new England? I went to the Comcast web site and searched their press releases for 2008, 2007, 2006. Found no mention of roll outs anywhere, not even New England, yet I know that it has been rolled out.

Your second paragraph makes a good point. Overall, many people are happy with their Tivo's, even though they may complain from time to time.


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## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

GoHokies! said:


> That's because Gallup uses proven statistical methods and takes great care to ensure that their 1,000 respondents are a random sample of the population.
> 
> Your little "poll" does no such thing, and therefore has no calculateable margin of error.


I disagree, there are all sorts of people here. It is random. The great care you speak about goes like this. Gallup uses a computer to generate random phone numbers for their 1,000 calls. They do not hand pick their respondents and neither did I. It is random.


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## PT30 (Apr 10, 2008)

GoHokies! said:


> +1
> 
> It's obvious that PT30 is just here to cause a disruption and not have a discussion. :down:


No, I am discussing things just like any other discussion. Just because we do not agree does not mean I am here to disrupt. That is simply a faulty conclusion based on incomplete facts or enough analysis of the facts. The discussion is in progress and your insistence on making statements such as you just did, shows a lack of maturity. Perhaps it is the others that seek to disrupt by a rather suspicious eagerness to discredit the validity of the poll, but you do not see it that way because you are too focused on finding ways to insult me.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

PT30 said:


> I disagree, there are all sorts of people here. It is random. The great care you speak about goes like this. Gallup uses a computer to generate random phone numbers for their 1,000 calls. They do not hand pick their respondents and neither did I. It is random.


Key key difference is that in the Gallup poll, the average joe doesn't get to say "I would like to answer in this poll" if Gallup doesn't call. This "poll" that you created allows folks to do exactly that - the "self selecting" nature of the "poll" is the problem here. This is basic stuff that I'm quite sure you can understand, which leads to my second premise...



PT30 said:


> No, I am discussing things just like any other discussion. Just because we do not agree does not mean I am here to disrupt. That is simply a faulty conclusion based on incomplete facts or enough analysis of the facts. The discussion is in progress and your insistence on making statements such as you just did, shows a lack of maturity. Perhaps it is the others that seek to disrupt by a rather suspicious eagerness to discredit the validity of the poll, but you do not see it that way because you are too focused on finding ways to insult me.


You're not discussing anything, because you refuse to listen to anyone that you disagree with. Instead you choose to discredit anyone who dares agree with you and lower yourself to personal insults. If you've truly been a reader here for over 4 years, then you would know that I'm constantly painted as a Tivo apologist or fanboy - I love seeing poll results like this, but unlike you I don't try to pass them off as something that they are not.

Incidentally, your claim that you've been reading for 4 years here just backs up my claim that you're the latest incarnation of HPD. That or we're supposed to believe that you registered and began posting with this rapidity within days of HPDs last post (presumably having been banned) is a complete coincidence. It boggles the mind that you are continued to allow in this manner.


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## PrincetonTech (Apr 13, 2008)

ldudek said:


> I also think that some people really got upset to see someone do a positive thread and actually see it stay on the front page for a couple of days. I won't mention any names because it's not necessary.
> 
> And even if this is just a representation of TiVo Forum members, looks like a lot of happy people to me.
> 
> Nice poll, GoHokies!


That is something I have noticed in my 5 years of reading this forum. At first, things were quite normal here, with hardly any bickering. Just a bunch of happy go lucky people sharing their passion for Tivo.

Then, in April of 2006, Tivo won the lawsuit against Dish and the injunction stated that Dish had to disable their millions of DVR's. Then it seems like having millions of people who were fearful of losing their free DVR from Dish, caused some of the bitter ones to seek out this message board. Planting all sorts of fake bizarre problems that the majority of Tivo owners have never experienced. This has led to some extreme bickering back and forth and people trying to help people who do not even own Tivo's, with their fake problems.

This forum is filled with great people who go out of their way to help people with problems but they seem to be getting feed up with some of the ridicules claims of some of these fake posters. There is no doubt that this forum has gone down hill and I believe it is caused by disgruntled Dish owners seeking to take revenge against Tivo with their fake posts. I have become pretty good at spotting the fake ones.

Now that Dish lost on appeal and is asking the Supreme court to step in, it would seem that there are more people here planting fake problems about Tivo than ever before. It is really starting to spiral out of control. This is not a very pleasant place to come to like it used to be years ago. Lots of bickering. There seems to be a lot of people who are very insistent on stifling anything good said about Tivo.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

PrincetonTech said:


> I have become pretty good at spotting the fake ones.


ROTFL


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## ldudek (Sep 2, 2007)

PrincetonTech said:


> That is something I have noticed in my 5 years of reading this forum. At first, things were quite normal here, with hardly any bickering. Just a bunch of happy go lucky people sharing their passion for Tivo.
> 
> Then, in April of 2006, Tivo won the lawsuit against Dish and the injunction stated that Dish had to disable their millions of DVR's. Then it seems like having millions of people who were fearful of losing their free DVR from Dish, caused some of the bitter ones to seek out this message board. Planting all sorts of fake bizarre problems that the majority of Tivo owners have never experienced. This has led to some extreme bickering back and forth and people trying to help people who do not even own Tivo's, with their fake problems.
> 
> ...


Well, lots of people think Oswald didn't shoot Kennedy or at least he didn't act alone. I think that has more of a ring of truth then you're theory to be honest.

But I do agree about the amount of complaining and bickering (excuse me bicker) that is going on around here.

I have to wonder though. I know many people lurk before they join but you've been lurking for 5 years and decided to show yourself with this conspiracy theory?


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## Derek Nickel (Oct 7, 2003)

morac said:


> How about a poll of a 1000 random people taken in a men's rest room asking what their sex is. What's the accuracy of that?


Have you never been to a sporting event?


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

PT30
*P*rinceton *T*ech

Hmmmmmmmmm....


----------



## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

I'm a second day buyer of the original S3... And other than dealing with comcast regarding cablecards (mostly billing issues) and one harddrive upgrade issue (a major anomoly corrected by a different brand HD), I've had absolutely NO problems, and I would not trade it for anything except a new TiVo box that deals with issues such as Switched Video and PPV/VOD.


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## berfy (Apr 24, 2005)

PT30 said:


> Gallup polls use a sample size of 1,000. The Gallop acuracy for predicting elections results fall with + or - 3 percent, even though some people might change their vote right before the election.
> 
> You offer no reason why it is "silly". Isn't that silly?


Numerous people have clearly and patiently explained to you why in fact this is very "silly" indeed.

I am left with the conclusion that you sir are a TROLL and I personally am done with you. I suggest others do the same.

Carry on, as I'm sure you will, if given the audience.


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## Jerry_K (Feb 7, 2002)

Need a category for ecstatic. All three of my Series 3 Tivos are great.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

I´m beginning to see a statistically significant pattern that the dumber someone is the more they support and appologize for TiVo.


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## ldudek (Sep 2, 2007)

HDTiVo said:


> I´m beginning to see a statistically significant pattern that the dumber someone is the more they support and appologize for TiVo.


I see your pattern is insulting people whenever you get an opportunity. But hey, don't let it bother you. It seems to happen frequently around here. I also see you don't know how to spell apologize.

Over in the Coffee house there is a thread called "TiVo's Downward Spiral". 
I know your familiar with that since you took a shot at some people over there as well.

And in case you didn't notice this thread is a poll. Currently it says 209 happy folks, 20 unhappy folks.

Probably 10 people who created a separate account.

Perhaps the next thread should be The TiVo Forums Downward Spiral.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

ldudek said:


> I see your pattern is insulting people whenever you get an opportunity. But hey, don't let it bother you. It seems to happen frequently around here. I also see you don't know how to spell apologize.
> 
> Over in the Coffee house there is a thread called "TiVo's Downward Spiral".
> I know your familiar with that since you took a shot at some people over there as well.
> ...


Actually you started the insults over in that other thread and now you´ve trolled along over to this one. "Some people" - you included - took quite a few shots at me over there. I treat you people far better than you treat me.

In case you didn´t notice my answer in this thread, go read it. 

And do the forum a favor by breaking your pattern of posting assertions when you haven´t a clue what you are talking about.

P.S. Would you be so kind as to explain the errors in this one sentence from a post of yours yesterday:


ldudek said:


> But if S cards are not being manufactured anymore, and I'm not saying the ther arn't, that could be a big problem.


... and why you capitalized "there" in the middle of a sentence earlier in that same post?


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

rodalpho said:


> Anyway, I'm being pulled into a flamewar over something that I truly don't care about, so at this point I'll bow out of this thread.


+infinity

I keep coming back, hoping for a sign of common sense. I realize it just ain't meant to be. I'm outa here . . . 

What's that old saying: When arguing with a fool, make sure he's not similarly engaged.


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## PrincetonTech (Apr 13, 2008)

HDTiVo said:


> I´m beginning to see a statistically significant pattern that the dumber someone is the more they support and appologize for TiVo.


Let the insults fly.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

JYoung said:


> PT30
> *P*rinceton *T*ech
> 
> Hmmmmmmmmm....


+1 You'll note that PT30 stopped posting and Princeton Tech registered yesterday. (I did use the "report post" to the moderators, I think if we just did that and stopped responding to this yahoo he'll go away).


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## brettatk (Oct 11, 2002)

This poll pretty much sums it up in my opinion. You know what they say... A few bad apples spoils the bunch.


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## ldudek (Sep 2, 2007)

HDTiVo said:


> "Some people" - you included - took quite a few shots at me over there. I treat you people far better than you treat me.


Yes, you're a real sweetheart.



HDTiVo said:


> And do the forum a favor by breaking your pattern of posting assertions when you haven´t a clue what you are talking about.


I think the thread you're referring too was the one I stopped posting in because it got so nasty. In that thread I was confused as what they were talking about and then someone explained it to me.

I thought the point of the forum was to help one another. Sorry I asked for help.

But I still like the poll. And I thought GoHokies! started it but I see apparently PT30 did. However it's turned into a minefield.

And as far as the spelling thing, I apologize for picking on you about that. It's just by that time I was so fired up I climbed on the attack bandwagon.

I'll try to remain civil from this point on. You can do the same.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

ldudek said:


> Yes, you're a real sweetheart.
> 
> I think the thread you're referring too was the one I stopped posting in because it got so nasty. In that thread I was confused as what they were talking about and then someone explained it to me.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the apology. Let´s keep it civil together.


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## PrincetonTech (Apr 13, 2008)

Pretty significant amount of results. 251 responses and it has never gone below 91 percent happy.

If a car manufacturer could attain those kinds of numbers there would be many manufacturers going out of business.


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## PrincetonTech (Apr 13, 2008)

PT30 said:


> He voted no but what he is really pissed off at is his cable company for switching to SDV, limiting the HD channels he can receive with Tivo. Can't really count his vote, not a Tivo problem.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=388419


Here is another guy who voted unhappy because where he is moving to uses SDV.

Why don't people understand this is not a Tivo issue but a cable TV issue?

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5409489#post5409489


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

I voted 'unhappy', and I am most probably a real person, with a real account.


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## PrincetonTech (Apr 13, 2008)

bizzy said:


> I voted 'unhappy', and I am most probably a real person, with a real account.


What are your reasons for being unhappy?


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

PrincetonTech said:


> What are your reasons for being unhappy?


This probably isn't the apropriate thread, and I have been through the issues many times on this forum before, but briefly:

* horrible customer support
* terrible software QA, leading to
* interminable delay rolling out bugfixes
* backpedaling on promised features (M card in S3), leading to
* the 'tuning resolver' vaporware, and it probably never being available
* stuffing advertising everywhere possible in a paid subscription service


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Please stop feeding the trolls.

As if we need more proof that PT30 = Princeton Tech here's the text of a PM I received from Princeton Tech:


> I clicked on the report post link. It says the following:
> 
> "This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising messages, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts"
> 
> ...


If we ignore him, he'll go away.


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## PrincetonTech (Apr 13, 2008)

bizzy said:


> This probably isn't the apropriate thread, and I have been through the issues many times on this forum before, but briefly:
> 
> * horrible customer support
> * terrible software QA, leading to
> ...


Well, all I can say is I bought my first Tivo 8.5 years ago. The two times I had to call customer support I found them to be very professional. They even called me back a few weeks later to see if the issue was resolved to my satisfaction. It was.

Why have I not noticed ANY terrible software in 8.5 years? I do have one minor complaint. It is being reported by people who have recieved 9.3 that it fixes transfer problems when using Tivo Desktop for the PC. I have not got 9.3 yet, wish it would get here sooner, but I can be patient. Not a big deal.

As stated above, very rare bugs so waits for bug fixes are not really a big issue.

Isn't the M card hold up related to waiting for Cablelabs certification to resolve some issues?

As far as the tuning resolver being vaporware, everything I have read says Q2 2008, which is April 1 to June 30. Seeing as how we are only 14 days into a 91 day quarter I think you need to be a little more patient


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## PrincetonTech (Apr 13, 2008)

GoHokies! said:


> Please stop feeding the trolls.
> 
> As if we need more proof that PT30 = Princeton Tech here's the text of a PM I received from Princeton Tech:
> 
> If we ignore him, he'll go away.


Let me put it another way. Has it ever occurred to you that with 256 responses to the poll and only seven people objecting to the validity of the poll that PT30 has a higher approval rating than Tivo? With only 2.73 percent of the people objecting to the validity of this poll, I would say PT30 is not the problem here.


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## ilh (Dec 21, 2007)

Are all those 256 responses your aliases?


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

PrincetonTech said:


> Let me put it another way. Has it ever occurred to you that with 256 responses to the poll and only seven people objecting to the validity of the poll that PT30 has a higher approval rating than Tivo? With only 2.73 percent of the people objecting to the validity of this poll, I would say PT30 is not the problem here.


Would you be generous enough to compare and contrast your view of the validity of the polling method to the view of PT30? I really want to get a better handle on the whole subject by analyzing the various views and trying to come to some reasonable conclusions for myself.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

ilh said:


> Are all those 256 responses your aliases?


Likely not, because part of the original premise (initials OP) was that there is a lot of negative posting, which this poll helps put the lie to. So it would have been self defeating...


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## PrincetonTech (Apr 13, 2008)

Here is another guy who voted unhappy. He has only three posts and his main complaint is that his cable company cannot do cable cards correctly. Again, that is not Tivo's fault, as cable cards are mandated by law and his problem is out of Tivo's hands.

So why did he vote unhappy for Tivo when his problem is with his cable TV provider? It just baffles me.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5883125#post5883125


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## PrincetonTech (Apr 13, 2008)

ilh said:


> Are all those 256 responses your aliases?


Very funny


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## Surrealone (Dec 8, 2006)

<<<<<I'm backing out of this thread to much mud. Why can't we all just get along????


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

PrincetonTech said:


> So why did he vote unhappy for Tivo when his problem is with his cable TV provider? It just baffles me.


Well, you are pretty new here. You've been a forum member for less than two weeks.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

PT30 said:


> What we need to get a stictically valid sample is people who own Tivo's. Hello TCF. Just because they joined TCF does not mean that it is not a random sample. Everybody has their own reason for joining, some to solve problems, some just for curiosity. It is still a random sample.


Wow! You sure learned a lot about us and why we joined in less than two weeks!

Simply amazing....


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Personally, my sole reason for joining the Forum was to reduce its randomness; of course, being just a cog in the wheel, that has no bearing.


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

This thread is hilarious.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

dig_duggler said:


> This thread is hilarious.


Finally an opinion worth reading. :up:

Should we PM the folks who have announced their exit and let them know what they are missing?


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## PrincetonTech (Apr 13, 2008)

Here is another guy who voted unhappy. He has only one post and guess what it is about. Bad cable cards from his Cable company, yet he blames Tivo.

What is going on here????????????? Why is it that people do not understand that they need to blame their cable company? I do not get it.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5735741#post5735741


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Are you trying to depress the "no" vote by "exposing" those who did? Is it not already low enough for you?

And isn't nymshifting against the rules here?


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

wmcbrine said:


> Are you trying to depress the "no" vote by "exposing" those who did? Is it not already low enough for you?
> 
> And isn't nymshifting against the rules here?


What is nymshifting?


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Registering multiple names, which this character is good at w/o getting caught (by the moderators, at least).


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

What is the derivation of nym?

What if PT30 stood for Princeton Tech class of &#180;30? That would make him about 100, right?


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## ldudek (Sep 2, 2007)

HDTiVo said:


> What is the derivation of nym?
> 
> What if PT30 stood for Princeton Tech class of ´30? That would make him about 100, right?


It could mean there were 30 people in the class.

It could be a kid who thinks he will graduate from Prinston in 2030.

It really doesn't matter, the poll speaks for itself.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

ldudek said:


> It could mean there were 30 people in the class.
> 
> It could be a kid who thinks he will graduate from Prinston in 2030.
> 
> It really doesn't matter, the poll speaks for itself.


When I did the math I originally thought 2030 would be a ten year old, but fortunately I double checked myself and realized he´d be zero.


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## PrincetonTech (Apr 13, 2008)

wmcbrine said:


> Are you trying to depress the "no" vote by "exposing" those who did? Is it not already low enough for you?
> 
> And isn't nymshifting against the rules here?


Just trying to understand why people would say they are unhappy when 92 percent say they are happy.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

http://www.multichannel.com/blog/100000410/post/1550024755.html said:


> One of TiVo's aims is to demonstrate the precision of its "second-by-second" DVR tracking service, which it sells to programmers, broadcasters, ad agencies and others. TiVo is looking to stay in front of the likes of Nielsen, which is trying to close the gap on the DVR ratings front.
> 
> Of course, there's a chance TiVo could suffer an embarrassing "Dewey Defeats Truman" moment if Mercado is spared (or, to conjure a missed call of more recent vintage, "Florida goes for Gore / no Bush / no it's too close to call").


...


http://www.multichannel.com/blog/100000410/post/1700024770.html said:


> As Simon Cowell might say, "TiVo got it absolutely, 100 percent wrong."


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

RoyK said:


> A poll like this presupposes several things - none of which are true:
> 
> 1. The respondents have a S3 - There is nothing to keep those who never even saw a S3 from responding and no way to filter those votes out.
> 
> ...


I would like to comment on this. Being one that does many market research surveys. Some of which I am paid to do (For my Time), others where I volunteer, and even others where I get to play with the product for a few months & fill out numerous questionaires in intricate detail.

First off, as any professional market research company will atest too. *ANYONE* can lie. *MANY *do! That is partly where Market Reaserch companies & pollsters get their 3% margin of error. This I know because I have asked those who have interviewed me in the past.

So in your first statement. That is very true. Someone could answer that in a positive or negative way & not even own a Tivo. Same thing applies in "official" market research surveys as well.

2. There are many users here that are still not happy with their S3/HD units, but still have them and use them because they are still the best DVR available. Some keep them because they can't afford to buy or switch to anything else. Some while not happy, are somewhat paitient enough to wait around for a while to see if any "Fixes" will be coming. Especially with SDV & it's proposed fix. I personally have a freind in Austin/SA area with a TiVo S3 and on SDV. He is keeping his although not using it currently, in hopes that the SDV fix will be here soon.

Along with #2, Reasons I have given in other threads. Their are in fact over 5 million TiVo's that have been sold. Roughly only about 2% to 3% of ALL TiVo users are even members of this forum. IF even that much. That includes positive members as well as negative ones.

*Think about the "Neilson Ratings" which has huge influence over WHAT TV programs succeed or fail. "Neilson Boxes" are in only 100,000 homes in the USA. LESS THAN 1% of the TV Viewing audience.* The Neilson ratings are in fact nothing more than a market research company with electronic equipment montioring how people are watching TV. They of course have very specific guidlines on "DEMOGRAPHICS" of where & how their "Boxes" are placed.

If you will read TiVo Press Releases. You should know that TiVo now also has a form of "Neilson Box" capabilities which are being sold to companies.

*Did you know that according to this new feature from TiVo. That Bionic Woman was the NUMBER 1 SHOW recorded last season on our TiVo's?*

#3... Neilson boxes... 1% of households.... TiVo Community probably 1% of actual TiVo owners....

TGC


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

berfy said:


> In truly accurate Polling the participants are randomly selected. Thats why they can claim a three percent accuracy rate.
> 
> This CANNOT be said of a Poll in this Forum where the participants are NOT randomly chosen but rather volunteer themselves. This completely skews the Polls findings I'm afraid and it's accuracy is nowhere NEAR 3%.


VEry true... no one knows what in this case is the accuracy rate.

One thing I would like to point out though. Not all Market Resarch surveys are Random.

Neilson Boxes are NOT random. They follow very STRICT special demographic guidlines.

I have had a Neilson box twice in my lifetime. Lost it, got it back then lost it again. Currently I don't have one.

Neilson will take the box away from you, if your demographics change. They will also give it back too (Rarely).

TGC


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

I am truly sorry you did not receive your rebate. That honestly really sucks hard.

I hate rebates from anyone, for any reason, on any product, for any amount.
I wish reabtes would be outlawed. But I know that won't happen anytime in my lifetime.

Rebates are really a ripoff... You still have to pay sales tax on the full amount without the rebate. Most cases it still costs you stam & an envelope, plus your time to mail it off, then cash the check when it comes back.

Last but not least... is THEY (or at least someone) is STILL earning interest on your rebate amount. Now interest on $200 isn't much. But when you take 10,000 people times the $200 the interest for 6 to 10 weeks adds up.

Why can't they just lower the price to begin with.

So, for me... and I tell everyone else they should think this way too. *NEVER* factor in a rebate on something you wish to buy. Just consider the rebate as a bonus suprise check that you get in the mail 3 months later.

One other point.... If your item is insured by home owners insurance or other means. You are insuring it for the "UN-Rebated" amount *NOT* the rebated amount. Especially if you have "Replacement" cost type insurance.

TGC


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

PT30 said:


> In his first post he mentioned a "clearing house"
> 
> We have to be accurate in assigning blame. Many people do not know that most corporations hire clearing houses to handle rebates. So the clearing house is most likely the one to blame. It sounds to me like they misrepresented the facts, saying he did not activate his Tivo and that the clearing house probably processed the claim and kept the $200 from Tivo. I have read that sneaky things like this do happen at some clearing houses. Tivo probably does not even know about the problem. I would call Tivo.


The truth is, if you do any research into rebates. Except for a few exceptions. 98% of all rebates are actually handled & processed by "Clearing houses".

A few of these "Clearing houses" are the same companies that actually do check processing for most of the major national banks in the USA as well.

Sad to say. As I have mentioned in another posting. I hate rebates. In the last 3 years I have sent in probably a dozen rebates. I have issues receiving 3 of the last 12 rebates. Mainly because of *LOST* paperwork on their sides.

*To anyone sending in rebates.* I tell you this. Legally speaking, follow their instructions to the letter. Make photocopies of *EVERYTHING* you send. *AND* send it to them in via certified mail. Especially if the rebate is $200. I don't send via certified mail for $10 rebates... but I do if its a $100 rebate or more.

TGC


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

I am just wondering with 289 responses/265 positive if we are now at the point where there is less than a 10&#37; chance that more than 100% of people are satisfied?


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## PrincetonTech (Apr 13, 2008)

HDTiVo said:


> I am just wondering with 289 responses/265 positive if we are now at the point where there is less than a 10% chance that more than 100% of people are satisfied?


Is that an attempt at humor? If you are serious you need to explain a little better. I cannot figure out what you mean.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Well, what about the people that are "more than happy?" You know, like "I´d be _more than happy_ to pick up some apples for you at the market." Surely that would account for the possibility of exceeding 100%? No?


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## PrincetonTech (Apr 13, 2008)

GoHokies! said:


> Registering multiple names, which this character is good at w/o getting caught (by the moderators, at least).


Who? Me?


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## PrincetonTech (Apr 13, 2008)

HDTiVo said:


> What if PT30 stood for Princeton Tech class of ´30? That would make him about 100, right?


That was good for a good laugh. Actually, Princeton Tec is my favorite scuba flashlight. A little expensive at $80 but it is like having a piece of the sun in your hand. Very bright white colored light. Not dim yellowish at all.

I have the Shockwave LED,

http://www.princetontec.com/products/index.php?id=29&type=0&use=2


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

What&#180;s the 30?


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## PrincetonTech (Apr 13, 2008)

TexasGrillChef said:


> I would like to comment on this. Being one that does many market research surveys. Some of which I am paid to do (For my Time), others where I volunteer, and even others where I get to play with the product for a few months & fill out numerous questionaires in intricate detail.
> 
> First off, as any professional market research company will atest too. *ANYONE* can lie. *MANY *do! That is partly where Market Reaserch companies & pollsters get their 3% margin of error. This I know because I have asked those who have interviewed me in the past.
> 
> ...


Be careful, showing those who seek to discredit this poll forms of logic, may lead to their brains exploding.


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## PrincetonTech (Apr 13, 2008)

HDTiVo said:


> What´s the 30?


I do not know. For that you will have to ask PT30.


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## PrincetonTech (Apr 13, 2008)

HDTiVo said:


> Well, what about the people that are "more than happy?" You know, like "I´d be _more than happy_ to pick up some apples for you at the market." Surely that would account for the possibility of exceeding 100%? No?


:down::down::down:


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## tluxon (Feb 28, 2002)

HDTiVo said:


> What´s the 30?


The number of miles per gallon his PT gets??? 

BTW, the biggest reason I'm "happy" with our TiVoHD's is because I was able to put 750GB drives in them. Without that we might still be well inside the ReplayTV/Comcast DVR camp.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

HDTiVo said:


> I am just wondering with 289 responses/265 positive if we are now at the point where there is less than a 10% chance that more than 100% of people are satisfied?


"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
JRRT


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

PrincetonTech said:


> I do not know. For that you will have to ask PT30.


I wonder what could have happend to him? Perhaps he read the first page of the preface to a book on polling and was too embarassed to return?


PrincetonTech said:


> :down::down::down:


Fortunately you are running the thread very well in his absence.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Or they're the same person.


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## ldudek (Sep 2, 2007)

HDTiVo said:


> When I did the math I originally thought 2030 would be a ten year old, but fortunately I double checked myself and realized he´d be zero.


Not necessarily. He could take a few years off before going to college. Who knows what he has planned?


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## PrincetonTech (Apr 13, 2008)

Ok, about a third of the way towards 1,000 responses to the poll. Lets get cracking boys.


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## VCD (Apr 22, 2008)

I am very happy with my Tivo. No problems at all.


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