# 20.4.6 no folders in my shows (option C) gone?



## rickyTV (Mar 16, 2014)

Just got the new release. What happened to the option to unfold the folders (believe it was option key C)


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

rickyTV said:


> Just got the new release. What happened to the option to unfold the folders (believe it was option key C)


Gone.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

It's gone. Groups are always on now because without them the streaming option wouldn't work, especially with shows that didn't have any current episodes.


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## pppingme (Apr 21, 2012)

Horrible way to go. Seems like the better fix would be to just not show the extra stuff when grouping was turned off. Now its VERY HARD to find older shows that are accumulating.


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## CG_Allred (Jun 8, 2005)

I'm irritated at the loss of this option too. My wife and I watch our recordings in chronological order. Now watching one of our shows each night is going to be an exercise in frustration. 

I know folks from TiVo read these forums. Please restore the ability to unground the "My Shows" list. I like the suggestion of suppressing streamed episodes in that view.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

pppingme said:


> Horrible way to go. Seems like the better fix would be to just not show the extra stuff when grouping was turned off.


Yeah that does seem like a logical way to do it, not sure why they didn't.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> Yeah that does seem like a logical way to do it, not sure why they didn't.


See figure 1.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

CG_Allred said:


> I'm irritated at the loss of this option too. My wife and I watch our recordings in chronological order. Now watching one of our shows each night is going to be an exercise in frustration.
> 
> I know folks from TiVo read these forums. Please restore the ability to unground the "My Shows" list. I like the suggestion of suppressing streamed episodes in that view.


I'm curious as to why you do this. I personally don't see any reason to watch unrelated shows in any order other than what I feel like watching next; I'm not saying your reasons aren't valid, I'm just really mystified as to what they are.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

ej42137 said:


> I'm curious as to why you do this. I personally don't see any reason to watch unrelated shows in any order other than what I feel like watching next; I'm not saying your reasons aren't valid, I'm just really mystified as to what they are.


I watch a lot of news shows, and it's better to watch those in order. And even for pure entertainment, (as pppingme said) forced grouping makes it more work to go back and catch up on the accumulation of older shows you didn't have time to watch when they were first recorded, so you don't get too far behind.


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## elwaylite (Apr 23, 2006)

L David Matheny said:


> I watch a lot of news shows, and it's better to watch those in order. And even for pure entertainment, (as pppingme said) forced grouping makes it more work to go back and catch up on the accumulation of older shows you didn't have time to watch when they were first recorded, so you don't get too far behind.


I record about 20 new OTA shows a week, and am right now watching stuff from 12/15/14. Imagine how easy it is not to watch stuff in order (not)...


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## CG_Allred (Jun 8, 2005)

ej42137 said:


> I'm curious as to why you do this. I personally don't see any reason to watch unrelated shows in any order other than what I feel like watching next...


To each his own I guess.  Watching shows in broadcast order gives us a framework for deciding what's next. We'll occasionally jump the queue if we really feel like watching a particular show, but most of the time it just makes things easier at the end of a long day. There's no "what do you want to watch?"... "I don't know... what do you want to watch?"

It's the way we've been doing it for years and it is irritating to have features taken away.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

CG_Allred said:


> There's no "what do you want to watch?"... "I don't know... what do you want to watch?"


Isn't that the whole point of a DVR? Having choice?

Watching things in the order they were recorded, even if I don't feel like watching it, seems odd. What if I'm in the mood for a comedy but the oldest recordings are all crime dramas? Too bad, must watch in order!


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Arcady said:


> Isn't that the whole point of a DVR? Having choice?
> 
> Watching things in the order they were recorded, even if I don't feel like watching it, seems odd. What if I'm in the mood for a comedy but the oldest recordings are all crime dramas? Too bad, must watch in order!


Then I expect if a change were made which made it difficultf for you to do other than watch programs in order of recording you would be as distressed as CG_Allred is.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

RoyK said:


> Then I expect if a change were made which made it difficultf for you to do other than watch programs in order of recording you would be as distressed as CG_Allred is.


I never said they should have removed the ability to turn off groups.

I just don't understand why you would force yourself to watch TV in the order it was aired, if you have a DVR. You might as well get rid of choosing shows and just have a bunch of 24 hour buffers.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Arcady said:


> I never said they should have removed the ability to turn off groups.
> 
> I just don't understand why you would force yourself to watch TV in the order it was aired, if you have a DVR. You might as well get rid of choosing shows and just have a bunch of 24 hour buffers.


I can't understand how people can stand to eat oysters but I have no problem accepting that they do.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Arcady said:


> Isn't that the whole point of a DVR? Having choice?


Then why do you have such a problem with someone who _*chooses*_ to utilize their DVR in that way?



Arcady said:


> Watching things in the order they were recorded, even if I don't feel like watching it, seems odd. What if I'm in the mood for a comedy but the oldest recordings are all crime dramas? Too bad, must watch in order!


I take it that you are the only one watching.


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## pppingme (Apr 21, 2012)

Arcady said:


> Isn't that the whole point of a DVR? Having choice?


No, it has nothing to do with choice, it has everything to do with time, I'm not going to be bound by the schedules of major networks. They very simply do not meet my lifestyle.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

pppingme said:


> No, it has nothing to do with choice, it has everything to do with time, I'm not going to be bound by the schedules of major networks. They very simply do not meet my lifestyle.


Then why are you watching shows in the order that the major networks chose?


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## ertyu (Nov 4, 2003)

I'd like this option back too.


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## gregbennett (Nov 1, 2002)

I posted this in the Release Notes thread but will add it here also...

Add me to the group that misses being able to ungroup shows. I basically record everything and then transfer a lot of it off the TiVo for later editing and watching. After I transfer the shows I turn groups off and go down the My Shows list and hit delete in a matter of seconds. Now I have to go into each shows folder to delete them.

Luckily my Premiere has not been updated yet so I can still get the Roamio's ungrouped list there.


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## swt2c (Mar 7, 2002)

Not happy about this. WTF, Tivo?


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

gregbennett said:


> I posted this in the Release Notes thread but will add it here also...
> 
> Add me to the group that misses being able to ungroup shows. I basically record everything and then transfer a lot of it off the TiVo for later editing and watching. After I transfer the shows I turn groups off and go down the My Shows list and hit delete in a matter of seconds. Now I have to go into each shows folder to delete them.
> 
> Luckily my Premiere has not been updated yet so I can still get the Roamio's ungrouped list there.


With kmttg you can download your Now Playing list from your Roamio and still choose whether or not you want to have folders (ie, you can group or ungroup). More sort options too. kmttg lets you delete shows on your Roamio. If you aren't using kmttg, how are you transferring shows to your PC?


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## abbydancer (Jun 16, 2002)

Due to frequent travel, we are way behind in our shows, and watch in order recorded. Sometimes, we'll jump around, but we could just turn on folders if we want to do that. And it's not up to TIVO to decide how I want to watch tv. Wasn't the whole point of TIVO to let you control how you do it?

I emailed support about this. Generally software updates don't remove things. I don't suppose there is a supported way to back this out? Maybe everyone should contact support.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

abbydancer said:


> Due to frequent travel, we are way behind in our shows, and watch in order recorded. Sometimes, we'll jump around, but we could just turn on folders if we want to do that.


So I'm still not seeing the benefit here. For me, this would be like checking out 10 books from the library and reading a chapter from each in turn instead of reading them front to back. When I go on a long trip and multiple episodes are piled up, I take great pleasure in watching all the episodes in a group before going on to the next unwatched series. I consider it a great convenience to have all the episodes in one place to watch back-to-back and would never turn off groups for that reason.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there is no benefit to this scheme or and I'm certainly not attacking anyone for following it, I'm just wondering what it is that people that follow this scheme are getting out of it?


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## gregbennett (Nov 1, 2002)

justen_m said:


> With kmttg you can download your Now Playing list from your Roamio and still choose whether or not you want to have folders (ie, you can group or ungroup). More sort options too. kmttg lets you delete shows on your Roamio. If you aren't using kmttg, how are you transferring shows to your PC?


Thanks!! I didn't realize you could delete through kmttg, I will check it out. I tried kmttg awhile ago but have just been using TiVo Desktop software to transfer the shows to my PC.

-Greg


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

abbydancer said:


> Wasn't the whole point of TIVO to let you control how you do it?


They now only need to remove the first "Y" from their original slogan of "TiVo: TV Your Way"!


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## JamesBritt (Sep 17, 2014)

I am yet another who is dumbfounded by Tivo's removal of choice about grouping.

I've submitted a complaint, I've gone through the "request new feature" [sic] form.

This reeks of laziness and indifference to their users. Rather than figure out a way to keep this grouping optional while rolling out OnePass they took the lazy route and just removed it.

Tivo seems determined that customers will use Tivo in a very specific way, and too bad if you wanted TV your way.

Not generally a fan of Cox but now I'm much more inclined to check out their Contour service and see if it offers a better user experience.

I wonder if Tivo is freaking out over "cord cutters" and are acting in haste out of fear their service won't seem relevant for people who favor Hulu or Netflix over cable.

OnePass solves problems I don't have and creates problems I don't want.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

"Cord cutters" will eventually stop spending money on hats and micro-brews and pay for cable TV. Or whatever replaces cable TV. It won't be purely OTA.

I don't see any technical reason to keep us from using My Shows without folders turned on. Just have an option show the list without any of the streaming stuff. Call it "Groups Off - Recordings Only" and get over it.


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## abbydancer (Jun 16, 2002)

I had a chat with a support person today. He said that if there enough requests to bring it back via their form, they will probably implement it. He also told me that a lot of people are unhappy. So, please contact them and fill out the form. I did, in my comments, say that good software practice is to never remove functionality, which is what this is.

I don't know if I can put the link here, but I will if I can. If not, I guess you can message me and I'll send it.


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## rickyTV (Mar 16, 2014)

One significant reason to use this feature is when one records several sporting events. If you don't watch these in time order you are very likely to run into a spoiler for the earlier event. 

For example, I have season passes for college basketball and pro golf. These often follow each other on the same channel, and the last couple of minutes of the game are usually shown on the first few minutes of the golf match. 

Years ago, when I used to attend computer manufacturer conventions, we used to refer to this as the "why would anyone want to do that" syndrome.

So, how does one send in a complaint that will get listened to?


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## pdicamillo (Sep 10, 2002)

I'm also disappointed by this. I've always listed my shows chronologically, without groups, and for the most part watch shows in that order. I mostly watch new TV shows, and I like to time shift with my Tivo, but not rearrange the shows. That's extraordinarily difficult now. When watching different shows on the same network, sometimes one show has previews for another, and it avoids spoilers. Even if you don't watch shows that way, it makes it very easy to see which shows were recently recorded, and be sure all my expected new shows are there without looking inside folders.

I agree that it's poor practice to remove a feature that's been present for years, and which I expected to get when I bought my Tivo. I've used some kind of Tivo for years, but I bought a new Roamio just a few months ago, and I feel cheated by this change.

I don't know how much attention they get, but here's the link for Tivo's feature request page: http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/168


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## markfheil (Mar 22, 2006)

rickyTV said:


> One significant reason to use this feature is when one records several sporting events. If you don't watch these in time order you are very likely to run into a spoiler for the earlier event.
> 
> For example, I have season passes for college basketball and pro golf. These often follow each other on the same channel, and the last couple of minutes of the game are usually shown on the first few minutes of the golf match.


But wouldn't those all be in the Group created by the Pass? They would would be listed within the group in chronological order, so it would be easy to watch them in order.


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## markfheil (Mar 22, 2006)

I think the best solution would be to have a separate menu option in Tivo Central, just under "My Shows" labelled "My Recordings" (or even put it under the "Manage Recordings... menu item). This would simply display all recordings, just like the original My Shows, and could be sorted in groups or not.


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## elwaylite (Apr 23, 2006)

I got a survey today about 20.4.6 and took it. Only thing I dinged them on is not being as happy after this update and was asked why, so I told them this reason. Hopefully they can give us the option back.


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## DeltaOne (Sep 29, 2013)

elwaylite said:


> I got a survey today about 20.4.6 and took it. Only thing I dinged them on is not being as happy after this update and was asked why, so I told them this reason. Hopefully they can give us the option back.


I also got the survey. At least half the questions asked about 20.4.6 likes, dislikes or what I would change.


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## Reeltripp (Dec 29, 2013)

Count me as a "want it back". There have been many episodes of the CSI series where one show leads into another.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

JamesBritt said:


> I wonder if Tivo is freaking out over "cord cutters" and are acting in haste out of fear their service won't seem relevant for people who favor Hulu or Netflix over cable.


Perhaps Tivo should have put this only on the OTA DVRs or made it the default on OTA DVRs and optional on cable DVRs.

I see much less of a need for this for consumers that have a robust cabletv package. Certainly not at the expense of one's ability to record and sort cable tv programming.



JamesBritt said:


> OnePass solves problems I don't have and creates problems I don't want.


I'm in the same boat.


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## JamesBritt (Sep 17, 2014)

rickyTV said:


> One significant reason to use this feature is when one records several sporting events. If you don't watch these in time order you are very likely to run into a spoiler for the earlier event.


Grouping is broken for some sporting events and channels.

For example, the Tennis Channel does not use a consistent naming/title scheme. There is no single "Tennis" group. I now have at least two folders for tennis.

Worse, matches from the same event are in different folders because of how they are named.

To top it off there is at least one broadcast from the tennis channel that is in no group because nothing in the name indicates it is tennis. Go figure.

So I think, OK, maybe if I go to the Sports folder I can see all of the tennis recordings in one place. This is better but it still omits that last oddly named recording.

The best and surest way for me to track tennis recordings by date was the single date view. Now removed, thanks to Tivo's insistence on doing things their way.

I am forced to use a tool that is not even adequate for the task.

I suggest everyone file a support claim about the lack of choice over grouping.


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## JamesBritt (Sep 17, 2014)

markfheil said:


> But wouldn't those all be in the Group created by the Pass? They would would be listed within the group in chronological order, so it would be easy to watch them in order.


Not for me and recordings from the Tennis Channel.

Because of how things are named (or whatever metadata is included) I have at least two folders, plus one recording that is in no group at all. Recordings for the same tennis event are split among groups because of how they are named or otherwise tagged.

Grouping depends on complete, accurate, and consistent program data. That cannot be guaranteed. Grouping fails for certain situations, and there's no longer any option to go back to something that worked.

This was a very poorly considered move by Tivo.


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## javabird (Oct 13, 2006)

CG_Allred said:


> To each his own I guess.  Watching shows in broadcast order gives us a framework for deciding what's next. We'll occasionally jump the queue if we really feel like watching a particular show, but most of the time it just makes things easier at the end of a long day. There's no "what do you want to watch?"... "I don't know... what do you want to watch?"
> 
> It's the way we've been doing it for years and it is irritating to have features taken away.


That makes sense to me. Even though I prefer using folders for the most part, I can see the value of watching like this sometimes. Sometimes I just let live TV play because I'm not in the mood to "get into" a particular show at the moment.

Would it help to use the "going away soon" section? That section show the oldest shows in your queue.


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## rickyTV (Mar 16, 2014)

markfheil said:


> But wouldn't those all be in the Group created by the Pass? They would would be listed within the group in chronological order, so it would be easy to watch them in order.


Within, yes, but not across all, which is the point of the old no folders option. So, if it's recording a few basketball games in one pass and golf in another, I would have to examine each folder closely to avoid spoilers by manually finding the earliest show.

My current workaround is to load up kmttg and set it to not show folders. But that requires turning on my computer.

I just noticed yet another spoiler problem. In the past, I would always go to standby (even though needing about 4-5 remote keys) so that when I turned the tv back on there would be no chance of going live on some channel. Now that no longer works either. After the coming back from standby screen, it goes live. Today I had to be quick on the trigger to avoid seeing the live golf standings before I could start the show from the beginning.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

rickyTV said:


> In the past, I would always go to standby (even though needing about 4-5 remote keys) so that when I turned the tv back on there would be no chance of going live on some channel. Now that no longer works either. After the coming back from standby screen, it goes live. Today I had to be quick on the trigger to avoid seeing the live golf standings before I could start the show from the beginning.


When I turn on my TV, I pick up the remote and press TiVo TiVo TV-Power. By the time the TV comes on, I'm in My Shows. (I don't use standby.)


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## ertyu (Nov 4, 2003)

One thing I really hate about grouping is that it combines episodes I requested to be recorded with episodes recorded as suggestions. That changes the dates, counts and sorting and just gets annoying.

I did come up with a minor fix that might help if we must continue with grouping. Allow groups to be sorted by the OLDEST date in the group instead of the newest.


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## JamesBritt (Sep 17, 2014)

rickyTV said:


> Within, yes, but not across all, which is the
> I just noticed yet another spoiler problem. In the past, I would always go to standby (even though needing about 4-5 remote keys) so that when I turned the tv back on there would be no chance of going live on some channel. Now that no longer works either. After the coming back from standby screen, it goes live. Today I had to be quick on the trigger to avoid seeing the live golf standings before I could start the show from the beginning.


Same issue here. I reported this as a bug to Tivo support, and was just informed that this is another deliberate change to Tivo behavior.

I was amazed. They could have the "Live TV" button go to, say, Live TV, and the "TiVo" button go to TiVo Central. But they decided, again, to remove a choice on how a user manages their devices and force you to go to live TV.

Jaw-droppingly boneheaded.

The option now is to press the Tivo button a few times when coming out of standby to not accidentally catch a live event being recorded.

What are the odds that the people making these decision have never used Tivo or spoken with any Tivo users?

"TV our way."


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## rickyTV (Mar 16, 2014)

Arcady said:


> When I turn on my TV, I pick up the remote and press TiVo TiVo TV-Power. By the time the TV comes on, I'm in My Shows. (I don't use standby.)


That doesn't work for me from standby. The second Tivo doesn't get processed since no remote keys are processed until the wake up is done. So, what I've been doing now is to keep hitting the tivo another 10 times or so until the tv finishes powering up.

Then I have to be sure I didn't leave the picture in picture on, or it will still go live on one of the shows that's being recorded at the time. But I've learned to turn that off quickly and so my spoiler exposure is lessened, but not entirely eliminated.

What's so hard about just always coming out of standby in a safe place, without the pic in pic and on the now-playing screen.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Why not change the setting so that the preview window is off by default?


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

lpwcomp said:


> Why not change the setting so that the preview window is off by default?


Can't turn live TV preview window off. Believe me I've tried.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

RoyK said:


> Can't turn live TV preview window off. Believe me I've tried.


The "slow" button toggles the preview window on or off.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Arcady said:


> The "slow" button toggles the preview window on or off.


It does in the menus but not live TV in the guide. At least not on my roamio


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## heg (Jan 12, 2004)

Count me as another dissatisfied, long time Tivo subscriber. Bring back the option to turn Groups off. Please.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

pppingme said:


> Horrible way to go. Seems like the better fix would be to just not show the extra stuff when grouping was turned off. Now its VERY HARD to find older shows that are accumulating.


I hate features being removed, and I too noticed this one, though I basically never intentionally turn(ed) off groups on the Tivo.. (once in a RARE while I turn off groups on kmttg, so I can find the _biggest_ episode, to try to get rid of a series taking up the most space... It's a losing battle..)

But even saying that, I honestly don't understand what you mean... Just hit the -> to go to the BOTTOM of the list, and go up.. Sorted by date, you'll still find 'older shows' near the bottom.

Maybe you mean if you have a ton of episodes of a particular show, but some are new and some are very old? Seems to me like you can basically guesstimate that by # of episodes in a folder.. i.e. I wouldn't turn off groups for that purpose myself.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

mattack said:


> Just hit the -> to go to the BOTTOM of the list, and go up.. Sorted by date, you'll still find 'older shows' near the bottom.


This won't necessarily work. You could have it sorted by date and still have your oldest recording in the folder at the top. For example, say you didn't watch a series last season, and now a new episode just recorded from this season. You'd have a folder at the top with today's episode and ones from 9 months ago in it. The folder is dated by the newest recording in it, not the oldest.


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## JamesBritt (Sep 17, 2014)

Arcady said:


> This won't necessarily work.


The bigger issue is that there was a means of organizing shows that worked for many people with different preferences at different times, and it was removed for, as best I can tell, no real reason.

Same with "restore from standby" always going to live TV.

People may be finding passable workarounds, but they are hacks, extra work to do something that had been and should still be standard options.

I can longer see myself recommending Tivo to anyone because even if they like what Tivo is doing today there is little assurance that it won't suffer further capricious changes.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

JamesBritt said:


> I can longer see myself recommending Tivo to anyone because even if they like what Tivo is doing today there is little assurance that it won't suffer further capricious changes.


This seems a bit extreme, don't you think? And do you _really_ think that this was a capricious decision?

As posted above, a real possibility seems to be to let feelings be known to TiVo directly. And then, especially if this really was something done capriciously, TiVo may actually do something to accommodate the concerns.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Done--feedback on this issue left for TiVo. Easy to do--2 minutes. Recommended--do it.

http://advisors.tivo.com/wix5/p2272893819.aspx


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## rickyTV (Mar 16, 2014)

JamesBritt said:


> Same with "restore from standby" always going to live TV.
> 
> People may be finding passable workarounds, but they are hacks, extra work to do something that had been and should still be standard options.


I've never quite understood this live tv issue; but lately, I'm beginning to believe this, along with timeouts also going live are simply Tivo's idea of a screen saver.


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## JamesBritt (Sep 17, 2014)

Mikeguy said:


> This seems a bit extreme, don't you think? And do you _really_ think that this was a capricious decision?


If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck ...

Absent any rational explanation from Tivo for preventing users from seeing a list of all their recordings, or for forcing users to go to live TV when restoring Tivo from standby, these appear to be changes for the sake of of change.

None of these changes were needed in order to offer OnePass. None of them improve the user experience. It feels like design by committee.

I'm curious if they did any usability testing or how they decided that eliminating useful features would in any way be a good thing. For all the Tivo surveys I've taken I don't recall a single question about restoring from standby, my use of Live TV, or my use (or avoidance) of program groups.

Yes, people should write to Tivo directly. I have done that. These flaws should be reported to their support department as bugs. The removal of useful features should not require a "new feature" request (though I've taken that route as well).

People should also make clear to Tivo that downgrading the user experience will affect what that say about Tivo to others.


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## Sam Ray (Jul 30, 2012)

This is really awful. We absolutely must have the shows sorted by date. My mother and brother do not do forums such as this but it is certain my mother will be calling Tivo and expressing frustration. This is such a really stupid change. There is absolutely no reason they had to remove the option, they just are not good at designing software. They will get plenty of complaints and then restore the capability. It would have cost them less money and would have saved the irritation of the customers if they had determined how important this feature is before making the change.


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## sangs (Jan 1, 2003)

Sam Ray said:


> ...they just are not good at designing software.


I wish FiOS programmers were as "not good at designing software" as Tivo programmers are.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

While I think that there are deep flaws in TiVos s/w design, implementation, and testing process, I don't think this is an example. I think of it as a bad design decision. When they eliminated the option to ungroup, they should have at least added an option to sort groups based on the _*oldest*_ recording and/or OAD in a group.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Mikeguy said:


> Done--feedback on this issue left for TiVo. Easy to do--2 minutes. Recommended--do it.
> 
> http://advisors.tivo.com/wix5/p2272893819.aspx


I just used that to mention the lack of favorite channels in view by time.
(The channel setup page still has the favorite thumbs up button though.)


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

lpwcomp said:


> While I think that there are deep flaws in TiVos s/w design, implementation, and testing process, I don't think this is an example. I think of it as a bad design decision. When they eliminated the option to ungroup, they should have at least added an option to sort groups based on the _*oldest*_ recording and/or OAD in a group.


That was my first thought too, but it won't fix the problem. In situations where there are older shows in My Shows but we want to watch the relatively recent ones in order, we really need to be able to sort by date without grouping.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

L David Matheny said:


> That was my first thought too, but it won't fix the problem. In situations where there are older shows in My Shows but we want to watch the relatively recent ones in order, we really need to be able to sort by date without grouping.


There is a way to sort the group by season order, rather then record date, now. That would help with ensuring you watched whatever episodes you wanted in the proper order.


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## JamesBritt (Sep 17, 2014)

Dan203 said:


> There is a way to sort the group by season order, rather then record date, now. That would help with ensuring you watched whatever episodes you wanted in the proper order.


How do I see all the _different_ shows that were recorded yesterday? Or during the last week?

What makes the removal of useful functions even more frustrating is that Tivo has, to my knowledge, not offered any explanation or defense for why these changes were required.


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## shaggy2002 (Dec 15, 2007)

I also would like the show in groups on/off option as I am also a person that likes to watch my oldest shows first. Especially when their is a crossover event.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

Add me to the list of those that are unhappy due to the removal of the 'turn off folders' or 'unfold the folders' function. Ive been using that function 'forever' and will really miss it. 'TV Your Way'... my way was with folders off. Sigh.


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

gregbennett said:


> I posted this in the Release Notes thread but will add it here also...
> 
> Add me to the group that misses being able to ungroup shows. I basically record everything and then transfer a lot of it off the TiVo for later editing and watching. After I transfer the shows I turn groups off and go down the My Shows list and hit delete in a matter of seconds. Now I have to go into each shows folder to delete them.
> 
> Luckily my Premiere has not been updated yet so I can still get the Roamio's ungrouped list there.


This is/was what I do too. It makes the tivo keep track in a serial manner, what I have and have not transferred. If it is still on the tivo, it is not transferred and it lets me moved them chronologically


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

JamesBritt said:


> How do I see all the _different_ shows that were recorded yesterday? Or during the last week?
> 
> What makes the removal of useful functions even more frustrating is that Tivo has, to my knowledge, not offered any explanation or defense for why these changes were required.


And also what bothers me is that they did not ASK if it was an acceptable change or at least, warn us.

Every tivo release happens, I cringe. What did they add, what did they take away, what did they fix, and worse, what did they break

The stability factor scares me because you cannot chooose NOT to take an update for very long


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## JamesBritt (Sep 17, 2014)

philhu said:


> The stability factor scares me because you cannot chooose NOT to take an update for very long


This is a key reason why I am now very reluctant to recommend TiVo to anyone.

I used to be quite the TiVo cheerleader but recent changes make me leery of TiVo's plans. They seem to be moving away from (proper) support for tuner recordings and instead favoring the acquisition of media from other sources.

But for how long, and what happens when TiVo again decides to change their focus? What if they find that favoring cord-cutters isn't sufficiently boosting the bottom line? What current features will they then drop when they pursue some other scheme?

It seems pretty ham-fisted and ill-planned, and that does not bode well for future changes.

While I currently only use Tivo for cable recording I do see the value in merging in other sources. But not the way it has been done; it broke features I had regularly used and makes me skip around assorted options that have no value for me.

The proper way would have been to allow people who don't have a need for the new OnePass features to turn them off and keep using TiVo as they had been.


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

JamesBritt said:


> The proper way would have been to allow people who don't have a need for the new OnePass features to turn them off and keep using TiVo as they had been.


Well,to their benefit, it is possible to change the global defaults for OnePass to kind of work, like the old seasonpass, again, not completely like it.

Also, this always folder stuff is annoying I now have to go through no less than 9 folders a day to get the latest stuff to offload from my tivo. Used to be all in one place

I also find that Tivo Desktop Plus has gotten very unstable, and my 'Season Passes', as TD still calls them, do not work 50% of the time. A fix of this magnitude needs a new TDP version.

The better wat to implement the folder stuff would be: If you turn off folders, all 1P functionality streaming functionality is disabled, everything would default to Recorded only, no seasons


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

philhu said:


> Also, this always folder stuff is annoying I now have to go through no less than 9 folders a day to get the latest stuff to offload from my tivo. Used to be all in one place
> 
> I also find that Tivo Desktop Plus has gotten very unstable, and my 'Season Passes', as TD still calls them, do not work 50% of the time. A fix of this magnitude needs a new TDP version.
> 
> The better wat to implement the folder stuff would be: If you turn off folders, all 1P functionality streaming functionality is disabled, everything would default to Recorded only, no seasons


Switch to kmmtg for offloading.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

lpwcomp said:


> Switch to kmmtg for offloading.


I was going to say the same thing. It still shows the list without folders.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

JamesBritt said:


> The proper way would have been to allow people who don't have a need for the new OnePass features to turn them off and keep using TiVo as they had been.


A "Recordings only" OnePass DOES work the same as a Season Pass.

The major difference is that you used to be able to have multiple SPs for one show, and you can't have multiple OnePasses.

While I was one of the ones to complain about this, and I STILL think that features shouldn't be removed, my own personal use case was _mostly_ fulfilled by being able to change one or two of my OnePasses to record in HD 'never'. IIRC, there was ONE that that didn't work for for some reason, so I changed it to a OnePass only limited to one specific channel..

I'm not defending the change, but if more stuff appears on Amazon Prime that I can merge in with my OnePasses, great.. (Though I almost never start a show in the middle of the run..)


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

mattack said:


> A "Recordings only" OnePass DOES work the same as a Season Pass.
> 
> The major difference is that you used to be able to have multiple SPs for one show, and you can't have multiple OnePasses.


Yeah, right. And other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

L David Matheny said:


> Yeah, right. And other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?


:up:


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I was thinking in another thread about this - they should add a "New Recordings" option in the left menu that shows a simple list of recordings sorted in date order.

It would have a similar function as the old option, but not negatively impact OnePass.


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

THAT is actually a fantastic idea.

It wouldn't reduce any functionality and add exactly what us hoarders, archivists, need.


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## pdicamillo (Sep 10, 2002)

I like that idea too, but I would want the list to be complete, not restricted to some definition of a "new" recording. So I think a different name would be better. Maybe just "Recorded", so you could have "All", "Partially Watched", "Recorded", and the rest.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Yeah, and that way the sort options would be still be available and fit pretty well into TiVos design.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I sent Margret an email with the request - but after a little more playing with the tivo, I think it is unlikely to get much attraction.

The left menu is just a filter for the my shows list - and presents the content exactly they way the content is presented in the all section. The (B) sort and (A) options are global to the entire list.

un-grouping would need to be a global setting - just as it was. Sorry to get temperatures up on this - I thought I was on to something.


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## pdicamillo (Sep 10, 2002)

"Partially Watched" doesn't seem to work that way for me. I have quite a few partially watched shows, and they're all listed separately. There are no folders-- even shows that are in the same folder under "All" are listed separately. As far as I can tell, "Partially Watched" works for partially watched shows just the way I would like a new "Recorded" item to work for all recorded shows. So all we have to do is watch a few minutes of every recording to get the listing we want  This is encouraging to me, because how difficult could it be to make a new choice similar to "Partially Watched", but that doesn't make a distinction based on how much of the show has been watched? It could actually be a bit less code.


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## pdicamillo (Sep 10, 2002)

Actually, that behavior suggests another possibly. Replace "Partially Watched" with "Recordings", then have an option under "Recordings" for selecting all shows or partially watched shows. But these details are much less important to me than just having some way to get the chronological listing.



pdicamillo said:


> "Partially Watched" doesn't seem to work that way for me. I have quite a few partially watched shows, and they're all listed separately. There are no folders-- even shows that are in the same folder under "All" are listed separately. As far as I can tell, "Partially Watched" works for partially watched shows just the way I would like a new "Recorded" item to work for all recorded shows. So all we have to do is watch a few minutes of every recording to get the listing we want  This is encouraging to me, because how difficult could it be to make a new choice similar to "Partially Watched", but that doesn't make a distinction based on how much of the show has been watched? It could actually be a bit less code.


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## dcomiskey (Jan 3, 2005)

Add my name to the "WTF TIVO????" Whoever at Tivo is reading this, BRIG THAT FEATURE BACK. Really irritated by this, folks. Really.


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## moonscape (Jul 3, 2004)

pdicamillo said:


> Actually, that behavior suggests another possibly. Replace "Partially Watched" with "Recordings", then have an option under "Recordings" for selecting all shows or partially watched shows. But these details are much less important to me than just having some way to get the chronological listing.


The chronological listing needs to be alpha sortable too. I'm so frustrated at having lost this functionality.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

Add me to the list of frustrated folks who are unhappy about losing the non-folder views.


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## ddonohue (Dec 7, 2003)

Yep, add me to the list. REALLY pi$$ed to lose the ability to turn off groups. I hate the folder view, it makes it almost impossible to "prune" the shows on my perpetually-full Tivos.

On an unrelated note, sort of, but one that shows Tivo's mentality, I had another issue whether the new features don't even work as planned, and I contacted Tivo to tell them.

I found, for example, that I have 9 episodes of Black Sails. If I view them in the folder view set to just "recordings" or "my episodes" (not "all"), it shows S1 E1 as the oldest and a bar beside it to show it partially watched. But If I switch to All Episodes, it shows S1 E1 with a "stream" icon to the left, even though I have it recorded. If I select it, it tells me it's not currently available. If I switch to another view, I can select it and play it.

The Tivo rep's solution? "Just don't use that view." Alrighty then.


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## Eighty8keys (Mar 14, 2015)

Count me in as someone very disappointed with no longer being able to ungroup my shows. We record a lot of shows and noticed that some shows either start early or end late, mainly sitcoms. We watch all sitcoms in chronological order because chances are we've recorded the sitcom that airs right after it, allowing us to see the ending. Turning off groups makes it easy to find the next show to watch. Dramas are a different story. We'll binge watch all recorded episodes of one drama before moving on to the next. We don't seem to miss recording the endings of dramas like we do sitcoms, possibly because the end of a one hour drama is typically a preview of the next week's episode. Adding a minute or two to each sitcom isn't an option for us since we have a two-tuner Premier and often both tuners are busy. I filled out the form using the link someone posted above and hope that TiVo listens to the feedback.


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## DigitalDawn (Apr 26, 2009)

Speaking of groups, why can you see the progress bar *only* inside of folders? Doesn't seem to work on an individual show.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Eighty8keys said:


> Count me in as someone very disappointed with no longer being able to ungroup my shows. We record a lot of shows and noticed that some shows either start early or end late, mainly sitcoms. We watch all sitcoms in chronological order because chances are we've recorded the sitcom that airs right after it, allowing us to see the ending. Turning off groups makes it easy to find the next show to watch. Dramas are a different story. We'll binge watch all recorded episodes of one drama before moving on to the next. We don't seem to miss recording the endings of dramas like we do sitcoms, possibly because the end of a one hour drama is typically a preview of the next week's episode. Adding a minute or two to each sitcom isn't an option for us since we have a two-tuner Premier and often both tuners are busy. I filled out the form using the link someone posted above and hope that TiVo listens to the feedback.


Thank-you. Finally, a valid reason for wanting to turn off groups. Much more economical than my solution for this problem, which is to pad everything by one minute on the front, four minutes on the back, and use twelve tuners to record on.


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## stormtech (Mar 18, 2008)

Add me to the list - I want to be able to turn groups off if I want again!


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## Tabletop (Aug 15, 2010)

I too want "no folders" back so I can watch chronologically. I have submitted a TiVo feature request.

Maybe someone else has mentioned it, but having an option to have the folders display the oldest show date instead of the newest date would probably satisfy me also.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Tabletop said:


> I too want "no folders" back so I can watch chronologically. I have submitted a TiVo feature request.
> 
> Maybe someone else has mentioned it, but having an option to have the folders display the oldest show date instead of the newest date would probably satisfy me also.


Wouldn't it be easier to stand on your head while you look at folders?


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## Tabletop (Aug 15, 2010)

As I see it.


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## andyf (Feb 23, 2000)

Tabletop said:


> I too want "no folders" back so I can watch chronologically. I have submitted a TiVo feature request.
> 
> Maybe someone else has mentioned it, but having an option to have the folders display the oldest show date instead of the newest date would probably satisfy me also.


I agree, if they can't bring the "no folders" back then displaying the folders with the oldest show date would suffice.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

andyf said:


> I agree, if they can't bring the "no folders" back then displaying the folders with the oldest show date would suffice.


When this issue first came up, I also thought that might be an easy solution. But sorting folders by the oldest show date would only help if you plan to catch up on every old show in every folder. If there are older shows that you're saving for some reason, you would still have to go in and out of folders checking for shows you need to watch in order. We really need the no-folders, date-only option.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

andyf said:


> I agree, if they can't bring the "no folders" back then displaying the folders with the oldest show date would suffice.


Why is it that sorting by episode number doesn't do the same thing for you?

[end of serious questions]

This discussion has inspired me to suggest that our local public library organize the publications by date order instead of grouping them by publication. Which to me would make as much sense as wanting to watch my TiVo records in date recorded order.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

ej42137 said:


> This discussion has inspired me to suggest that our local public library organize the publications by date order instead of grouping them by publication. Which to me would make as much sense as wanting to watch my TiVo records in date recorded order.


I don't watch this way, and don't really have any desire to. But someone wants to watch that way. Is it really necessary for you to tell them it makes no sense? If they want to, they want to.

Your sarcastic reply not only adds nothing to this conversation, it detracts from it.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

astrohip said:


> I don't watch this way, and don't really have any desire to. But someone wants to watch that way. Is it really necessary for you to tell them it makes no sense? If they want to, they want to.
> 
> Your sarcastic reply not only adds nothing to this conversation, it detracts from it.


I'm not being sarcastic, I'm trying to illustrate my point with an example. I don't mind that people want the unfolder option back, I'm just curious why they want it so badly. Asking the question before I got one answer that made sense, but from the conversation here I don't think that answer applies here. So, I'm seriously asking a question for which I'd like an answer, should one exist. Even if the answer is "I just like it that way", I'd like to know why they like it better.

I promise that I would not try to argue anyone out of it, though I might ask further questions to improve my understanding.


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## ertyu (Nov 4, 2003)

I prefer to watch things chronologically. There are a couple reasons that pop into to mind as to why. Avoiding spoilers. Catching advertising for upcoming shows. Keeping things in order. It's simplifies the decision as to what to watch. There are certainly others that I'm not thinking of.

With folders what I've found is that some shows often end up stacking up tons of episodes. Once that happens I don't feel like watching them until I can watch a whole bunch at a time and catch up. Which means even more stack up and then it becomes binge watching and I'm just trying to watch them quickly and get them deleted and I just don't like it.

It's a preference, it's was a specific choice as I used both folders and no folders for long periods and I have a strong preference to have no folders. I don't see the need for folders and want them removed or at least better sort options.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

ej42137 said:


> So I'm still not seeing the benefit here. For me, ...


You don't have to.

But it sure would make this thread eminently less painful if you could accept that others do find benefit in ungrouping the listing. Please.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

SCSIRAID said:


> Add me to the list of those that are unhappy due to the removal of the 'turn off folders' or 'unfold the folders' function. Ive been using that function 'forever' and will really miss it. 'TV Your Way'... my way was with folders off. Sigh.


I think it's been mentioned that you need to add yourself to that list, by hitting TiVo's feature request page (posted a few posts back).


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

ddonohue said:


> I found, for example, that I have 9 episodes of Black Sails. If I view them in the folder view set to just "recordings" or "my episodes" (not "all"), it shows S1 E1 as the oldest and a bar beside it to show it partially watched. But If I switch to All Episodes, it shows S1 E1 with a "stream" icon to the left, even though I have it recorded. If I select it, it tells me it's not currently available. If I switch to another view, I can select it and play it.
> 
> The Tivo rep's solution? "Just don't use that view." Alrighty then.


I've posted about 12 different OnePass metadata issues to TiVo's Facebook page, including the initial request that they establish a metadata feedback page similar to their channel guide issue form. And I've been thinking we almost need a separate forum or thread for posting identified metadata glitches.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

krkaufman said:


> You don't have to.
> 
> But it sure would make this thread eminently less painful if you could accept that others do find benefit in ungrouping the listing. Please.


Perhaps they have reasons that I would find compelling? I'm sorry that you find different viewpoints disturbing; you might want to put me on ignore.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

ej42137 said:


> Perhaps they have reasons that I would find compelling? I'm sorry that you find different viewpoints disturbing; you might want to put me on ignore.


Nah, though you've provided an excellent case for why that feature would be compelling.


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## JamesBritt (Sep 17, 2014)

ertyu said:


> I prefer to watch things chronologically. There are a couple reasons that pop into to mind as to why. Avoiding spoilers. Catching advertising for upcoming shows. Keeping things in order. It's simplifies the decision as to what to watch. There are certainly others that I'm not thinking of.


I ran into this today, a major flaw in the forced groupings.

We've been recording tennis. For whatever reasons, the Tennis Channel has a variety of names for things. Mostly the name of a show will say "tennis". Sometimes it's "ATP tennis." But sometimes it's "Center Court"

Tivo now groups these things into multiple groups. It will often but items into more than one group. Or no group, if there is just one. Whatever heuristics tivo is using to group things is flawed for such cases.

I ended up watching a later recording, thinking that the earlier matches just didn't get recorded, because the matches had been going into an "ATP tennis" group. I then realized that the earlier recording had a different name, so was not i any group.

Maybe if I just went to "Sports" I would have avoided this, but the simplest way to handle such time-dependent recordings would be a list of all recordings by date. Like there used to be.

One shouldn't have to bounce around this or that group just to be sure your're watching things in the correct order.

I get that this grouping works for some people for certain circumstances. It's terribly broken for other people and other circumstances.


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## moonscape (Jul 3, 2004)

This inability to ungroup has been very frustrating, for many reasons I've expressed in a couple of threads since the day I got OnePass. And it has been troubling that there has been no acknowledgement of this issue =at all= by Margret, as if the forced grouping didn't even happen. She at least acknowledged another issue - the inability for duplicate passes - would affect people.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

moonscape said:


> This inability to ungroup has been very frustrating, for many reasons I've expressed in a couple of threads since the day I got OnePass. And it has been troubling that there has been no acknowledgement of this issue =at all= by Margret, as if the forced grouping didn't even happen. She at least acknowledged another issue - the inability for duplicate passes - would affect people.


Probably because as Vice President, Design & Engineering Chief Design Officer she is ultimately responsible for both of these awful issues/design decisions being propagated.


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## MHunter1 (Oct 11, 2007)

mrizzo80 said:


> I'm seeing gold star ads in pretty much every single folder


Now that we've been forced to use Groups, I'm noticing folders for the most hyped shows contain a gold star advertisement at the bottom. Could TiVo's sinister reason for disabling the option to ungroup be to provide more places to sell sponsored ads? I've already trained my brain to blur out the folder ad the same way I avert my eyes from ads on TiVo Central and non-TiVo banner ads that pop up during programs, but it upsets me to think selling ads is why Groups have been forced upon us.


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## ddonohue (Dec 7, 2003)

I just checked here to see if there was any progress on this, but it appears not.

I couldn't take the folders-only view anymore. This is on my Premiere, but I also had an old Series 2 (unaffected by the change obviously) that was on a super-cheap grandfathered MSD plan. I was going to move that to a Roamio I was going to buy with my tax refund, but I called Tivo tonight and cancelled the service on the S2. Their "retention specialist" was surprised and kept saying they don't offer that rate anymore and tried to give me a few months free, and looking at the age of my account and the Tivos I've owned (7?) said, "I mean, I know we're not going to lose you as a customer..." 

Wrong. No Roamio for me, and I'll just suffer thru this OnePass garbage on my Premiere until I replace it with WMC or something else.


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## ddonohue (Dec 7, 2003)

JamesBritt said:


> I ran into this today, a major flaw in the forced groupings.
> 
> We've been recording tennis. For whatever reasons, the Tennis Channel has a variety of names for things. Mostly the name of a show will say "tennis". Sometimes it's "ATP tennis." But sometimes it's "Center Court"
> 
> ...


This is a great example. A similar one occurs with a long sporting event like an auto race. Sometimes I will record a race and then, since they notoriously run long I will also record the show (or 2) following it just in case. Why do I do that, you ask, when I can just add extra time to the recording? Because if it ends up finishing on time I can just delete the extra program up front to save space. If I add an hour to the race, it sits there taking up space until I can delete the whole thing. The Coke 600 was like 6 hours I think.

But if I try that now, the pieces all end up in different folders and not chronologically together anymore. I hate the UI changes for other reasons too and I freely admit this is an "off-label" method of recording, but it was still a capricious decision by Tivo to force folders on us.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

ddonohue said:


> I replace it with WMC or something else.


FYI WMC is dead. The officially announced that it would not be in Win10 and support would die with the EOL of Win8. Also all extenders, except the XBox 360, stopped working with Win8. So it's really not a viable alternative any more.

Silicone Dust is working on a new DVR platform for their HDHomeRun devices, but it's still in Alpha right now and there is no telling yet if it will be a viable alternative.

So at this point your choices are pretty much TiVo, the cable company DVR or a WMC PC which could stop functioning at any moment.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> FYI WMC is dead. They officially announced that it would not be in Win10 and support would die with the EOL of Win8. Also all extenders, except the XBox 360, stopped working with Win8. So it's really not a viable alternative any more.
> 
> Silicon Dust is working on a new DVR platform for their HDHomeRun devices, but it's still in Alpha right now and there is no telling yet if it will be a viable alternative.
> 
> So at this point your choices are pretty much TiVo, the cable company DVR or a WMC PC which could stop functioning at any moment.


... and SageTV hasn't yet been open-sourced, so remains unavailable as a _current _alternative.


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## JamesBritt (Sep 17, 2014)

OnePass had a recent update and added an option to view all recordings, and sort them by date.

First, "thank you" to Tivo for adding this. I am still puzzled why the previous behavior could not be restored, but at least now there is a way to see all my recordings in one place, in a single date-sorted list. 

Of course, if you want to switch to a grouped view of recordings you have to bounce around to a different category ("All"). That's not something I have reason to do very often so the clunky implementation is not too big of a deal.


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