# Bolt, Moca & TiVo Bridge



## Chris Blount (Nov 1, 2003)

My TiVo Bolt is nowhere near an Internet Ethernet connection. I have 3 TiVo minis in other rooms with coax connected to them. Everything is connected together via coax so a Moca network should work. I have an OTA antenna also connected with a POE so no issue there. 

My question. Obviously I can't use the Bolt to create the Moca. Can I create the Moca with the TiVo bridge, run the coax to a splitter near one of the TiVo minis and inject the Moca there? Seems to me it shouldn't matter where the Moca is created within the coax network. 

Thanks.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Yes that will work. Just make sure on your bolt that you select connect to moca network, not create moca network when setting it up.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

Chris Blount said:


> My TiVo Bolt is nowhere near an Internet Ethernet connection. I have 3 TiVo minis in other rooms with coax connected to them. Everything is connected together via coax so a Moca network should work. I have an OTA antenna also connected with a POE so no issue there.
> 
> My question. Obviously I can't use the Bolt to create the Moca. Can I create the Moca with the TiVo bridge, run the coax to a splitter near one of the TiVo minis and inject the Moca there? Seems to me it shouldn't matter where the Moca is created within the coax network.
> 
> Thanks.


If Bolt is not connected to internet via MoCA or Ethernet, how do the three Minis connect to Bolt? For Minis to work, they need to connect to a DVR, unless you have another TiVo DVR in addition to Bolt? In addition, the DVR "host" needs to have a wired connection (either MoCA or Ethernet) for the Minis to work.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

thyname said:


> If Bolt is not connected to internet via MoCA or Ethernet, how do the three Minis connect to Bolt? For Minis to work, they need to connect to a DVR, unless you have another TiVo DVR in addition to Bolt? In addition, the DVR "host" needs to have a wired connection (either MoCA or Ethernet) for the Minis to work.


Isn't that exactly what he's saying he's trying to accomplish by adding the moca adapter (TiVo Bridge) near his mini?


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Hi,
The thing with OTA and MoCA is that, you have to keep the coax which is feeding your cable modem (assuming you have one) isolated from the coax carrying the OTA signal to your Tivos. 
The MoCA filter goes on the main feed from the OTA antenna. The MoCA adapter is connected to the coax network from the antenna and your Tivos. The trick is that there has to be an Ethernet cable from the router connected to the Ethernet port on the adapter. If you can get that done, use the "connect to MoCA network" setting on the Bolt and do the same with the minis. 
Unless you have some kind of coax or splitter issue you should be good.


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## Chris Blount (Nov 1, 2003)

Thanks for the replies. 

Here's the deal. I have the OTA antenna coming into a POE then to the input of a 4 way splitter. Each output of the splitter goes to the Bolt and 3 TiVo Minis. The Internet from my ISP comes in on a separate coax to my cable modem and router. 

My idea was to co-locate a TiVo bridge near one of the minis, then run Ethernet from my router to the bridge.

From everything I've read this configuration should work. Basically, instead of the Moca being created by the Bolt, it's being created by the TiVo Bridge near one of the minis.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Chris Blount said:


> Thanks for the replies.
> 
> Here's the deal. I have the OTA antenna coming into a POE then to the input of a 4 way splitter. Each output of the splitter goes to the Bolt and 3 TiVo Minis. The Internet from my ISP comes in on a separate coax to my cable modem and router.
> 
> ...


Perfect!


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## Chris Blount (Nov 1, 2003)

Here's another question for you guys.

There is nothing special about the TiVo Moca network right? If I want high speed internet for other devices near the Bolt, couldn't I just install a splitter to the coax coming into the Bolt and run another coax to an ordinary run of the mill Moca adapter, then the ethernet output to, say, an ethernet hub so I can patch in my PS4 or other streaming device?


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Chris Blount said:


> Here's another question for you guys. There is nothing special about the TiVo Moca network right? If I want high speed internet for other devices near the Bolt, couldn't I just install a splitter to the coax coming into the Bolt and run another coax to an ordinary run of the mill Moca adapter, then the ethernet output to, say, an ethernet hub so I can patch in my PS4 or other streaming device?


You certainly can do that. I do it with old DirecTV DECA units, which are just MoCA E band devices anyway.


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## Chris Blount (Nov 1, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> You certainly can do that. I do it with old DirecTV DECA units, which are just MoCA E band devices anyway.


Holy crap! I have a few of those laying around in drawer somewhere. I will try them out. Thanks!


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Chris Blount said:


> Holy crap! I have a few of those laying around in drawer somewhere. I will try them out. Thanks!


Do NOT do that if there's any antenna or cable signals on your coax! DECA frequencies are in the same frequency band as OTA and cable. You need an empty coax or one with only satellite IF signals on it for DECA to work and not interfere. That's why directv uses DECA and cable uses moca (which is above the cable tv band).


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Chris Blount said:


> Holy crap! I have a few of those laying around in drawer somewhere. I will try them out. Thanks!


FYI... DECA devices won't work with the MoCA network created by your TiVo Bridge, nor would DECA work on any coax lines also carrying either OTA or cable TV/Internet signals.



Chris Blount said:


> Here's another question for you guys.
> 
> There is nothing special about the TiVo Moca network right? *If I want high speed internet for other devices near the Bolt*, couldn't I just install a splitter to the coax coming into the Bolt and run another coax to an ordinary run of the mill Moca adapter, then the ethernet output to, say, an ethernet hub so I can patch in my PS4 or other streaming device?


Coincidentally, your question hits on one of the followup points I was going to make, but failed to followup and actually finish the post.

You wouldn't need an add'l MoCA adapter to extend wired networking *near the BOLT*.

If your BOLT is connecting to the MoCA network created by some other device (the TiVo Bridge, in your case), you can simply connect a network switch to the BOLT's Ethernet port to extend wired networking to other Ethernet-capable devices co-located with the BOLT. Unfortunately, this capability owes to the BOLT having the Ethernet-MoCA bridging capability built-in, which the TiVo Mini does not, so you'd have to go with your add'l MoCA adapter approach if you wanted wired connectivity for Ethernet devices co-located with any Minis. (Well, aside from that one Mini where you obviously already have Ethernet connectivity, since that's where you're connecting your TiVo Bridge.)

edit: Just to be clear, in this setup, the BOLT would still be configured to "Connect using MoCA"; however, once you connect a device to its Ethernet port, the network settings connection type will automatically update to "Ethernet + MoCA."


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Chris Blount said:


> Holy crap! I have a few of those laying around in drawer somewhere. I will try them out. Thanks!


In your situation, forget about the DECA adapters. Just stick with strait MoCA adapters. A good value right now for a pair is on Amazon, https://www.amazon.com/Yitong-Technology-Ethernet-Adapter-YTMC-51N1-M2/dp/B019MDRX5A
If you want to extend your wireless and add 2 Ethernet ports, consider the WCB3000N. Dual band, N 300, and they are pretty cheap, if you get a refurb off of Ebay, http://www.ebay.com/itm/Actiontec-M...639868?hash=item25bf9eb77c:g:EJkAAOSw2GlXJAfz


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Chris Blount said:


> Here's the deal. I have the OTA antenna coming into a POE then to the input of a 4 way splitter. Each output of the splitter goes to the Bolt and 3 TiVo Minis. The Internet from my ISP comes in on a separate coax to my cable modem and router.


Bottom line, I wouldn't worry about any of the following unless and until you find you need a stronger signal from your OTA antenna. OR are just curious.

That said...

Is your OTA signal needed only at your BOLT, or is the OTA signal being directly fed to your TVs, as well?

The only other comment I was considering was that you could obtain a marginally improved OTA signal at your BOLT by bypassing the OTA signal around the 4-way splitter, using an antenna/satellite diplexer. This would boost the OTA signal at the BOLT (well, lessen its loss), but at the expense of the OTA signal not being available via the splitter output runs.

See attached for a diagram demonstrating the bypass, drawn under the assumption that the MoCA network is created on any one of the MoCA-enabled runs.

.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Good points KRK. I totally forgot about the Bolt's bridging capabilities too!

BTW, I wasn't recommending he use DECA, I was just pointing out that this technology is capable of doing what he asked, which was essentially to modulate ethernet onto a coax cable to extend his network signals, be it MoCA or DeCA (which is MoCA E Band).


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## Chris Blount (Nov 1, 2003)

First, thank you so much for the ideas here. Big help!

I did receive the Tivo Bridge and installed it near one of the Tivo Minis then ran a Cat 7 cable from my router to the bridge. All of the devices (Bolt and 3 minis) came online and had internet connection. 

The Bolt automatically recognized that the Moca was being created elsewhere so it became a bridge. Therefore I was able to hook up an ethernet switch to the ethernet port on the Bolt. Now I can have a wired connection to my PS4 and other devices near my Bolt. Works great! Thanks for that suggestion krkaufman.

I could use a bit more signal from my OTA antenna so I will try that diplexer idea. 

Again, thanks to all who replied here. Your ideas really did help me configure this system the best way. When we had this house built 12 years ago, I told the builder I wanted 12 runs of RG-6 going to various rooms. No splitters. Twelve individual runs that all converge to a central point on the side of the house. He thought I was nuts because most people in this neighborhood only wanted 3 or 4. 

This 12 run layout has really helped me over the years with satellite (DirecTV) and now the Tivo Moca network. Thank goodness I was thinking ahead at the time.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Great to hear, Chris. I look forward to hearing how that diplexer bypass works out for you. (You might want to note your signal level on a couple channels before and after, to document the difference.)

And thanks for the feedback. All too often posters just disappear after their questions have been answered, so I personally appreciate your taking the time to post back with your results.

p.s. And, yeah, nice call on the star layout for the home coax wiring. So much easier to get it done up-front.


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## Chris Blount (Nov 1, 2003)

Is there any particular type of diplexor that I need?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Chris Blount said:


> Is there any particular type of diplexor that I need?


One of these should do... *LINK* (h/t fcfc2)


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## Chris Blount (Nov 1, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> One of these should do... *LINK* (h/t fcfc2)


Thanks. I might have a few of those laying around somewhere from a previous satellite setup. I will definitely try it though and take before and after readings.



fcfc2 said:


> In your situation, forget about the DECA adapters. Just stick with strait MoCA adapters. A good value right now for a pair is on Amazon, https://www.amazon.com/Yitong-Technology-Ethernet-Adapter-YTMC-51N1-M2/dp/B019MDRX5A


I ordered and installed one of these near one of the other minis. It works but it's will not pass through the Moca to the mini. Apparently it's not compatible with the mini. I ended up puting a splitter at the input of the mini to break this bridge off to its own coax. Works fine that way.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Chris Blount said:


> fcfc2 said:
> 
> 
> > In your situation, forget about the DECA adapters. Just stick with strait MoCA adapters. A good value right now for a pair is on Amazon, https://www.amazon.com/Yitong-Technology-Ethernet-Adapter-YTMC-51N1-M2/dp/B019MDRX5A
> ...


It's not so much that the MoCA adapter in question isn't compatible with the Mini, in particular, but that pretty much all MoCA adapters don't pass the MoCA signals through their RF/TV Out ports, by design. (Similar to tuning adapters.) As you've found, you'd need to feed the Mini and MoCA adapter in parallel, same as you'd planned to do for your BOLT before learning the BOLT's Ethernet port could provide the needed connectivity.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

krkaufman said:


> Great to hear, Chris. I look forward to hearing how that diplexer bypass works out for you. (You might want to note your signal level on a couple channels before and after, to document the difference.) And thanks for the feedback. All too often posters just disappear after their questions have been answered, so I personally appreciate your taking the time to post back with your results. p.s. And, yeah, nice call on the star layout for the home coax wiring. So much easier to get it done up-front.


Ditto, happy to hear you're up and running and thankful to have such an informed and helpful member like krkaufman on board to assist so willingly and thoroughly!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)




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## Chris Blount (Nov 1, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> It's not so much that the MoCA adapter in question isn't compatible with the Mini, in particular, but that pretty much all MoCA adapters don't pass the MoCA signals through their RF/TV Out ports, by design. (Similar to tuning adapters.) As you've found, you'd need to feed the Mini and MoCA adapter in parallel, same as you'd planned to do for your BOLT before learning the BOLT's Ethernet port could provide the needed connectivity.


I guess you are correct about that but I'm no expert.  The instructions that came with the bridge simply said that if the set top box does not work correctly it means it's incompatible and to use a splitter.

I tried a duplexer but it's a no go. As soon as I inserted the duplexer everything became unstable. At one point I did have a slightly better OTA signal but then it suddenly decreased substantially. Then it would come back and go away again. It was very erratic. Sure, it could've been a bad connection or some other hardware issue but I really didn't feel like messing with it any further.

Right now I'm using an indoor antenna and my signal readings are in the 60s and 70s. It's stable. I figure if I start having issues, I will simply put up an outdoor antenna. But for now I'm pretty much done.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Chris Blount said:


> I guess you are correct about that but I'm no expert.  The instructions that came with the bridge simply said that if the set top box does not work correctly it means it's incompatible and to use a splitter. .........


That may be true of a normal cable STB that uses the regular cable tv frequencies/channels, but that isn't what the mini is. The mini uses IP signals via moca or Ethernet ONLY and has no cable or OTA tuners whatsoever. It relies 100% on its TiVo host for that.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Chris Blount said:


> I guess you are correct about that but I'm no expert.  The instructions that came with the bridge simply said that if the set top box does not work correctly it means it's incompatible and to use a splitter.


Pretty much what HarperVision said earlier^^^, but I'll have to admit that they're good instructions, since they got you quickly to the correct configuration -- semantics aside.



Chris Blount said:


> I tried a duplexer but it's a no go. As soon as I inserted the duplexer everything became unstable. At one point I did have a slightly better OTA signal but then it suddenly decreased substantially. Then it would come back and go away again. It was very erratic.


Most perplexing. Assuming it was correctly connected, I'd have to guess a bad diplexer, or the wrong frequency specs for the ports. Diplexers do work quite well for splicing/merging OTA & MoCA, as proposed above, taking this recent setup as one success story.



Chris Blount said:


> Sure, it could've been a bad connection or some other hardware issue but I really didn't feel like messing with it any further.
> 
> Right now I'm using an indoor antenna and my signal readings are in the 60s and 70s. It's stable. I figure if I start having issues, I will simply put up an outdoor antenna. But for now I'm pretty much done.


Good call, regrettably.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

I wonder if he had the diplexer's legs connected to the wrong cables? Antenna OTA signals to the antenna leg and the MoCA cable to the satellite leg.


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## Chris Blount (Nov 1, 2003)

One other quick question. With the OTA signal going to all of the devices (no diplexor), would it be possible to pull one of the minis and replace it with a Romio OTA? Would the Bolt and Romio play well together? Can they see each other's recordings on the network? 

My thought was to expand my tuners and at the same time giving my wife her own DVR to record her stuff.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Chris Blount said:


> One other quick question. With the OTA signal going to all of the devices (no diplexor), would it be possible to pull one of the minis and replace it with a Romio OTA? Would the Bolt and Romio play well together? Can they see each other's recordings on the network?
> 
> My thought was to expand my tuners and at the same time giving my wife her own DVR to record her stuff.


Yep, a TiVo DVR should work the same in either location... with MoCA + Antenna at each outlet.

And, yes, the content from any additional networked TiVo DVR can be accessed via a separate device icon for the DVR in the My Shows listing -- rather than being presented as a single merged listing for all online DVRs.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Chris Blount said:


> One other quick question. With the OTA signal going to all of the devices (no diplexor), would it be possible to pull one of the minis and replace it with a Romio OTA? Would the Bolt and Romio play well together? Can they see each other's recordings on the network?


One caveat in regards to the Roamio OTA... is that it does not include MoCA connectivity, so it would require either an Ethernet connection or a standalone MoCA adapter to provide wired connectivity via your MoCA network.

The basic/OTA Roamio models also don't include the built-in streaming capability, so content on the Roamio OTA wouldn't be streamable via TiVo Online or to mobile devices. (Roamio Plus or Pro models include a built-in TiVo Stream module that could proxy streaming for the basic/OTA models; however, the BOLT's built-in streaming is a different implementation from the Plus, Pro & TiVo Stream, and so I'm not sure it's capable of proxying streaming sessions for Roamio OTA content.)

On the other hand, one benefit of the Roamio OTA is that it uses a 3.5" hard drive, so it'd be easier and cheaper to upgrade its capacity.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Chris Blount said:


> One other quick question. With the OTA signal going to all of the devices (no diplexor), would it be possible to pull one of the minis and replace it with a Romio OTA? Would the Bolt and Romio play well together? Can they see each other's recordings on the network?
> 
> My thought was to expand my tuners and at the same time giving my wife her own DVR to record her stuff.


As already mentioned you will need another MoCA adapter and unless you are using those diplexers, you should be good to switch to a Roamio OTA. You might check with Tivo, but for a while they were selling a 1TB version of the OTA, with lifetime/All In for $400. 
Another feature since you already have a working MoCA network, you can easily add a small switch from the adapter and feed any number of other devices, computers, old routers configured as access points etc. An easy way to get excellent wifi coverage and throughput.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Chris Blount said:


> One other quick question. With the OTA signal going to all of the devices (no diplexor), would it be possible to pull one of the minis and replace it with a Romio OTA?





fcfc2 said:


> ... and unless you are using those diplexers, you should be good to switch to a Roamio OTA.


He's not using the diplexer workaround, so he's good-to-go; however, were he using the diplexer bypass, it would just take a single (MoCA-compliant) 2-way splitter, and short coax, to accommodate a second DVR...
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64866067/ant-diplexer-bypass-x2.jpg​
Considering this...


Chris Blount said:


> This 12 run layout has really helped me over the years with satellite (DirecTV) and now the Tivo Moca network. Thank goodness I was thinking ahead at the time.


Depending on how many runs out of his 12 he looks to connect to MoCA, the diplexer workaround or an amplifier may eventually be needed to ensure a good signal to his DVRs -- or perhaps just making sure the DVR runs are near the top of the coax tree, rather than just a couple runs off a big splitter.

p.s. Yeah, I had that diagram sitting around from before Chris had reported failure on the diplexer front, and it was wearing a hole in my quiver.


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## Chris Blount (Nov 1, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> One caveat in regards to the Roamio OTA... is that it does not include MoCA connectivity, so it would require either an Ethernet connection or a standalone MoCA adapter to provide wired connectivity via your MoCA network.


Interesting. So if I purchase the 1TB TiVo Roamio OTA with no monthly fee, I cannot use my current MOCA network? That seems a bit odd.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Chris Blount said:


> Interesting. So if I purchase the 1TB TiVo Roamio OTA with no monthly fee, I cannot use my current MOCA network? That seems a bit odd.


You can use it, it is just that the Roamio OTA and base Roamio don't have any moca capabilities built in, so you either need an external unit, or just connect it with wired Ethernet.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Chris Blount said:


> Interesting. So if I purchase the 1TB TiVo Roamio OTA with no monthly fee, I cannot use my current MOCA network? That seems a bit odd.


It's no different than your PS4. Your PS4 doesn't include MoCA connectivity, so you're leveraging the BOLT's MoCA bridge (and a network switch) to provide wired network connectivity for your PS4 via the BOLT's MoCA link. The basic & OTA Roamio models were built sans MoCA to keep costs down (supposedly), and so, like the PS4, they require a bit of help to connect to a MoCA network... in the form of a standalone MoCA adapter.

Further, as fcfc2 commented, similar to your BOLT setup, you can connect the standalone MoCA adapter to a network switch to provide a wired network connection for not just the Roamio OTA, but also for any other co-located Ethernet-capable devices -- including a wireless access point, if looking to extend your wireless coverage.

One thing to keep in mind when mixing all these components is the MoCA standards for each device, as well as Ethernet interface speeds, to make sure you're not over- or under-spec'ing a given component.


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## Chris Blount (Nov 1, 2003)

This is all a bit confusing. So if the OTA Roamio does not have MOCA, then how is it communicating (sending/receiving video) with another TiVo like the Bolt? Through the ehernet port after I hook up the bridge? For some reason I was thinking that the Roamio was communicating the same way the mini was doing it.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Chris Blount said:


> So if the OTA Roamio does not have MOCA, then how is it communicating (sending/receiving video) with another TiVo like the Bolt? *Through the ehernet port after I hook up the bridge?*


Yes, exactly. The Roamio OTA will think it is connected via Ethernet... because it will be wired to the Ethernet port of its MoCA adapter (or to an Ethernet port on a network switch to which the MoCA adapter is connected). And the Roamio OTA would be configured for an Ethernet connection.



Chris Blount said:


> For some reason I was thinking that the Roamio was communicating the same way the mini was doing it.


Understandable. But the Roamio OTA and base models lack *any* MoCA capability, whereas the Mini can act as an adapter but lacks the ability to bridge traffic between MoCA and Ethernet.

---- 
p.s. The situation for the Roamio OTA and MoCA is similar to what you might have faced for a gaming console and Wi-Fi, in the past. The gaming console may have been equipped with an Ethernet port but lacked access to an Ethernet connection, and also lacked any built-in wireless connectivity. The solution... connect the gaming console's Ethernet port to a wireless adapter or media bridge, allowing the gaming console to communicate wirelessly while thinking it was a wired Ethernet connection.


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## Chris Blount (Nov 1, 2003)

Got it! Thanks so much. As you can tell I'm somewhat of a newbie as far as the current Tivo boxes. I had Tivo when it was part of DirecTV but I never had an actual Tivo "network" in my house before. I love technology and am usually pretty good at this stuff. It's been quite a learning experience over the past few weeks but I think I'm finally getting the hang of it thanks to you guys.

Again, very much appreciate the help.


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