# Dead tivo (2 of them!) after tivo software update



## fisherk (Sep 4, 2004)

So Does anyone know if a big update went out for series 2 tivos. My friend has an upgraded tive (using instant cake). I also have a series 2 upgraded with instant cake.
2 days ago my friends tivo got stuck rebooting. It just tries to boot and when it gets to 'almost there' it reboots.
This morning I got up and now my tivo is doing the exact same thing.
Can this be a coincidence or did Tivo update break my upgraded drive?
Anyone else having this problem in the last few days?
Thanx
Keith
Some more info:
Lastnight I ran KS57 and ks58 on my friends and that didnt work..it just reboot after 5 min or so of GSOD
I aslo ran Spinrite on the drive overnight and it came out all good not a single bad sector...


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

Yes, TiVo is launching an update. It could be the alternate partition is corrupted. Something like that happened last update.
A Kickstart repair may fix it.


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## l.rayjr (Oct 12, 2007)

My Series2 (TCD540080) started doing this sometime overnight on Thu. 4/9 or early in the AM on Fri. 4/10. The same thing happened to this Tivo when it received the last update (about 6 months ago).

I have two Series2 (TCD540080) in my home both upgraded to dual drives using Instant Cake (based on the Tivo 7.2.0 software). One is still working and still shows that it is runnning on version 9.1 so I'm waiting to see if 9.2 causes it trouble also.

To recover from the last upgrade, I just re-imaged using my Instant Cake CD and was able to successfully complete the upgrade to version 9.1. The worst part about this was loosing all my recordings. ARGH!!!!

I'm a big Tivo fan and accept the risk of loosing my programming to such things as drive failures every couple of years but I'm loosing patience with these upgrades keep killing my systems! I've intentionally avoided any hacks (beyond the upgrade to a dual drive system) because I wanted to ensure my systems were stable but I'm beginning to think that finding a hack to guard against software updates might be the way to go.

Thanks for posting your troubles, Keith. When I read your post, I knew this had to be my trouble also.

Lewis


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## fisherk (Sep 4, 2004)

So im not alone..
I just re-imaged both with instant cake. I sure hope the update dosent kill them again...
Thanx!


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## Rocketslc (Jan 5, 2004)

Slightly of track, but thanks for this thread. I hadn't realized 2 of my 4 TCD240 boxes had received an update (oddly both are lifetime, the 2 that haven't got it are monthly)
I guess it is time for Slicer.


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## juanian (Oct 2, 2002)

fisherk said:


> So Does anyone know if a big update went out for series 2 tivos. My friend has an upgraded tive (using instant cake). I also have a series 2 upgraded with instant cake.
> 2 days ago my friends tivo got stuck rebooting. It just tries to boot and when it gets to 'almost there' it reboots.
> This morning I got up and now my tivo is doing the exact same thing.
> Can this be a coincidence or did Tivo update break my upgraded drive?
> ...


Ugh; I just had my 540 TiVo (which had previously been InstantCake'd) get stuck in a reboot loop. Poppng out the drive, it had just received the 9.3 update.

Looks like there could be some common problem here.

My InstantCake file is named with "IC2-TCD540-7.2.0-oth-01-2-540".

(Also see my more detailed thread (not wanting to hijack your thread with my issue) at My "TiVo is broken".)


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

Make sure you are running full diagnostics on your drives before using InstantCake (or any other software) to reinitialize your drives. Its best to rule out the most common causes of problems first, and defective hard drives tend to surface during software updates because 'dormant' partitions (which may contain defects) become active when the software updates...


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## juanian (Oct 2, 2002)

Very sound advice, because many failures with an upgrade *are* related to drive errors.

Unfortunately, my Seagate drive has no bad blocks at this time (along with the OP), and I'm looking into other possibilities as to the source of the problem.

Keith/Lewis,
About how many recorded programs were on the TiVos that failed. If you don't quite know, then were there lots (like hundreds) or few (like under a hundred)?

Thanks
Juan


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

juanian,

Just so you know, we ran two tests this afternoon. One was letting a unit (TCD540) upgrade from 7.2.0 to 9.3a; no problem. One was lettinga unit upgrade from 8.3 to 9.3a; no problem.

I don't think this has anything to do with 'software' other than that fact that yours may been in a state where the update did not download and install properly, but I'm more inclined to believe you have a hardware problem.

If you haven't low-level formatted your hard drive as part of your testing, you may want to try that, as well. Its rare, but there have been times that advanced tests have passed and low level formats have failed.

Beyond that, I'd look at the cables in your unit and all the other 'usual suspects...'

Lou


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## juanian (Oct 2, 2002)

tivoupgrade said:


> juanian,
> 
> Just so you know, we ran two tests this afternoon. One was letting a unit (TCD540) upgrade from 7.2.0 to 9.3a; no problem. One was lettinga unit upgrade from 8.3 to 9.3a; no problem.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply.

Under what conditions did you conduct your tests? As a software tester by profession, I know that 'simple' test cases don't necessaily reveal potential problems. For example, how many recorded programs were on the test TiVo? How many channels of program information were on the TiVo? Depending on what process TiVo uses when upgrading to 9.3, the amount of temporary space needed on the hard drive could vary (and some of the partition sizes on the drive created by IC seem unusual to me, but I'm no expert in that area).

For my failed TiVo, I used the same version of InstantCake (that I had previously used) to make a new drive, and I had no problem upgrading to 9.3. But, I had no recordings or channels on that drive. When I try again, I will be sure to experiment and put hundreds of recordings (albeit short recordings, to save my own time), and the full digital channel selections in that I had previously had to try and better simulate the circumstances of my failed upgrade. True, it won't be an upgrade from 9.1 to 9.3 (which was the actual upgrade that failed), but it will be the best I can do under the circumstances.

As far as IC users, I will agree -- there are probably many users that were not affected by the upgrade to 9.3. The question is: what was the unique item that caused the upgrade failures on the TiVos related to this thread? Over the history of computers, many upgrade failures, whether TiVo, Windows, Macs, or whatever, do occur because of failing hard drives (or a corrupted drive), which has nothing to do with the software upgrade itself. We (and that is the 'royal' we) need more information as to what the cause of the failure was for these TiVos. (Unfortunately, because my failed TiVo had rebooted itself too many times, the logs (and the 'o'ld logs) no longer had the initial failure available, which could have provided critical information.) Hopefully someone with the necessary expertise can get the logs off of a similarly failing TiVo (that is, a 540 TiVo that failed, and had no bad blocks), and maybe the root cause can be determined. It is just an unfortunate trend that the TiVos mentioned in this thread were all IC.

Only one of my TiVos has an IC drive (when I replaced the dead Maxtor drive with a Seagate DB35). Right now, I'm just trying to recover as much as I can off of the existing drive (which shouldn't be difficult, since there are no bad blocks). (MFSCopy (through WinMFS) just seemed to copy the problem across; I'm not sure if it just did a partition copy, or if it actually tried to copy the recordings one-by-one; maybe I'll see if the stand-alone copy has options to copy recordings one-by-one for a single-drive-to-single-drive copy.)

OK - sorry for my ramblings. My wife is "unhappy" about the second failure of this TiVo within a year. The first was due to 'cheap' hardware (Maxtor? Give me a break!); the cause of the second failure *has* yet to be determined.


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

juanian said:


> It is just an unfortunate trend that the TiVos mentioned in this thread were all IC.


I wouldn't read too much into it, or consider it to be a trend. InstantCake is merely a script which uses MFStools to create the drive. With the many units out there that are upgraded with MFStools (whether it be users of InstantCake or folks that have updated 'from scratch') I think you would see a lot more failures being discussed by this point, unless of course only a handful of folks have actually received 9.3, so far.

In addition, all of our kits are created using MFStools and we've not heard from any customers who've had problems taking the update to 9.3. Again, perhaps many have not received it, but if they start having problems, I'm sure we'll hear about it.

So if it is a problem with drives created with MFStools, you can bet that it will be widespread and a topic of major discussion around here. Until then, I'd look at other factors, especially the hard drives as the likely culprit.


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## dzuebois (Apr 20, 2008)

If I might add my two cents. I have a Series 2 TCD540040. I don't have cable or satellite service, just OTA. I recently tried to run the Guided setup on my unit and the unit locks up at the end of tuning in the local channels. This has only occurred since the 9.3 update. 

So you might want to look at the software update again as the possible source of issues here.


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

dzuebois said:


> If I might add my two cents. I have a Series 2 TCD540040. I don't have cable or satellite service, just OTA. I recently tried to run the Guided setup on my unit and the unit locks up at the end of tuning in the local channels. This has only occurred since the 9.3 update.
> 
> So you might want to look at the software update again as the possible source of issues here.


Have you contacted TiVo support to see if people in your area or running with your configuration are experiencing this problem on your particular unit with the 9.3 software update? It seems odd that if the update were the cause of the problem, it would not be known as one at this point.

Is your unit upgraded? Have you run the manufacturer's diagnostics on the original drive? A defective drive is the most common source of problems, and as we've discussed, these problems can arise when TiVo updates their software. I would look at that as a strong possibility until that variable has been eliminated.


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## norbus (Apr 13, 2007)

Just wanted to say the EXACT same thing happened to my Tivo. I also have run extended tests on my drive. No problems.

Another forum post that lists people with this problem:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=390607

And my most recent post with the EXACT same issue:

http://www.dvrupgrade.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1880#post1880

I'd like to think we should be able to move on from here that "everybody just has a bad drive"

This is becoming a major trend. Let's try and figure out what the problem is since everyone's drive going bad causes the exact same signal 11 errors.

All of us seemed to have used instant cake to ugprade our drives to larger capacity.

Can we please look at this again, and maybe show some suspension of disbelief on drive problems?

Thanks,

Eric


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## Aaron M (Apr 23, 2008)

A defective drive is the most common source of problems, and as we've discussed, these problems can arise when TiVo updates their software. 

That might well and true - but I have the same problem as someone else on this thread. Both myself and a good friend have 540's Series 2 TiVo's. We both upgraded our unit's with Seagate 320 gig drives with Instabake approximately the same time. His started Looping after his unit rebooted and then when my Tivo wasn't seeing my Tivo DesktoP ( just installed it on my laptop) I asked my TiVo to reboot and mine came up with a note that there was software updating and now my machine is looping too. I've done all the kick starts..... nothing - I've tested the drive..... PERFECT. Hard drive failure? :down: I think not I do believe this issues is software driven. I don't believe all Tivo's are having this issue and I also believe that once I pull the drive and rebake this baby - reinstall (less all of my programming) this baby will update to 9.3 and all will be well again...... I'll let you all know how it works out...... but it's a PAIN IN THE *ss that's what I"m saying and I'm less than thrilled about losing my stuff. I suppose that this type of stuff just happens. Too many variables when you start swapping out HDD's that haven't been extensively tested..... It's not as simple as "every piece of random hardware that we drop into these boxes is going to respond well to updates...... I'll come back and update with my results.


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## norbus (Apr 13, 2007)

Thanks Aaron. Although I would be frustrated to lose all of my programming, my biggest concern is that if I re instant-cake the drive, then when I arrive at 9.3a due to auto-updates, I'll be right back where I started.

Let me know how the upgrade goes.

E


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## Rocketslc (Jan 5, 2004)

dzuebois said:


> If I might add my two cents. I have a Series 2 TCD540040. I don't have cable or satellite service, just OTA. I recently tried to run the Guided setup on my unit and the unit locks up at the end of tuning in the local channels. This has only occurred since the 9.3 update.
> 
> So you might want to look at the software update again as the possible source of issues here.


It appears the guided set up freezing up when scanning OTA channels is known to Tivo. They apparently are working on a fix.

http://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/forums/displaypost?postID=10376222


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## l.rayjr (Oct 12, 2007)

All,

I purchased the Spin Rite drive utility after reading about it in several other threads and used it to test both of my drives from the Series2 (TCD540080) that started the "update to 9.3" boot loop.

I ran the "Level 4" check and the utility found no problems with either drive. After running Spin Rite, I figured I would try the long shot that Spin Rite might have fixed some lost pointers in the Master Boot Record or something crazy like that so I re-installed the drives in my Tivo. But as you might expect, I still had the same boot loop issue. I then pulled the drives, re-imaged them with my Instant Cake (based on the 7.2.0 Tivo Software), and re-installed the drives in my Tivo again. As was the case with after having this problem last fall in the update to 9.1, after freshly re-imaging the drives (and wiping out all my programming) my Tivo was able to update to 9.3 and is working well once more.

I still have the other dual-drive TCD540080 that hasn't yet received the 9.3 update. It is working well (just as all our systems were prior to the update).

I am very interested to see if it has the same trouble or if it will go through the update process without any trouble. I'll report back to this thread when I have an answer to that question.

Good luck to you all in restoring your systems to health.

Lewis


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## norbus (Apr 13, 2007)

All:

Here's the deal. A few of us have had problems with Series 2 going bonkers when we did the auto-upgrade to 9.3a and we'd extended the size of our drives and used Instant Cake to start.

The folks at DVRupgrade and others have done indepedent tests of running 7.2 up to 9.3a with a fresh system and it went okay.

Somehow, we managed to configure our systems with a different drive size and personalized settings in a way that Tivo wasn't expecting, and it bumped us off the air.

This really sucks, because we lost all of our programs and our configuration, but at this point it's not breaking every single box out there that did the same upgrade path. At lot of people went to 9.3a without a hitch. Instant Cake, bigger drive, the whole deal. No problem for them.

So-- I'm ready to believe it's not the Instant Cake partitioning method that killed us. It's just the perfect storm for a few of us. I don't think it's hardware or drives failing either.

DVRUpgrade folks have put a 9.3a image out there instead of 7.2.

I'm past my expiration point so it's another 20 bucks, but at least I can be comfortable it will work off the .iso with Amazon Unbox and wireless adapters, etc.

There might be some wizards that are working on a uber-fix, but for now, I'm ready to concede.

Eric


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

More details on the tests we ran from my post of 4/14; I want so underscore the point that I previous made: InstantCake is a script which asks you questions about the configuration of your PC and drives and then uses that standard _MFStools_ to image the drive, so if there is a question of whether it has to do with the software, it would be of MFStools.

I do not believe that MFStools to be the source of the problem, if it were, many more people would be experiencing this issue, in my opinion. I also do not believe that it is a 'bug' in the TiVo software for the very same reason. I do believe that it could be do to a hardware issue, even if it is marginal, that is causing a glitch in the upgrade process, or it could also be related to the particular state of the TiVo when the update arrives (and that could be considered a 'bug' in the software, but without knowing the source of the problem, it would not be fair to suggest that).

If you truly are interested in finding the root cause of the problem, you should first rule out the possibility of it being a hard drive, and beyond that, start comparing notes on the particular configurations of your units, service providers, and any other specifics of your environment that might point out a common problem....

Lou


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## TimeShifter (Dec 28, 2001)

All,

I have the same issue that is being discussed in this thread. However, I want to add one little difference to the discussion. My Tivo is a completely un-modified unit. A standard off-the-shelf Toshiba Series 2. Based on my experience, I would question the connection being made to extended drive sizes. Currently, I am three days into a Clear and Delete Everything. I previously tried to get a Kickstart to work but I had the same problem a lot of Toshiba owners have getting the codes to work. I am letting the unit sit until I run out of patience. It sounds like my next step is going to be opening the box and re-imaging. Fortunately I am a computer geek so I'm not intimidated, just a little peeved that I have to mess with an "appliance" when I have refrained from hacking or upgrading! If anyone has any tips regarding stopping a locked up C&D, I would appreciate it!

Thanks!


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## norbus (Apr 13, 2007)

Hey:

Thanks for coming into this thread. Do you have the resources to mount your drive and review the logs from Linux to determine if you're getting a Signal 11 at the exact same library load from the Kernel on a boot?

If so, we might be seeing a bug from the Tivo folks. But, without that verification, it could be anything, including as Lou says, a problem with your disk going bad, or your hardware itself.

E


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## norbus (Apr 13, 2007)

See this link for when the signal 11 would happen:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=390607


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## l.rayjr (Oct 12, 2007)

All,

Just an update. My second Series 2 (TCD540080) did the auto-upgrade to 9.3 successfully; no problems. Since I have two units that are exactly alike and that I upgraded to dual drive systems using the same Instant-cake image, just shows this problem with the update is a very illusive one. The only difference between my two units is that the one I had problems with had larger drives (A drive is a Maxtor DiamondMax 320GB; model 9DZ0A6-591. B drive is a Maxtor DiamondMax 300GB; model L01R300.) and is covered under a lifetime Tivo Subscription. The unit that updated successfully is running with it's original 80GB drive and the original 80GB drive from my other TCD540080 and is on a monthly subscription.

I don't see how the subscription difference would be of any relevance to this problem so I'm thinking this was problem was somehow related to the drives or state of the drives when the upgrade was triggered.


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## l.rayjr (Oct 12, 2007)

One more potentially significant detail with my system that had problems. In the month prior to the release of 9.3, I had noticed this unit pixelating my programs frequently. I was attributing this pixelation issue to the previous software update thinking there might be some problem with the software controlling the video. After this unit failed on the update to 9.3, I read in one of these threads that Tivo pixelation is often an early warning of a failing drive. I do not believe either of my drives is bad since I've tested both with a through scan and found no problems with them but since re-imaging and the upgrade to 9.3, I haven't noticed the pixelation problem any more.

Perhaps the pixelation was somehow a side-effect of having a lot of recorded programing and my drives taking longer to store or retrieve data. Perhaps, our issue with this upgrade was also somehow related to upgrading systems with a lot of recorded programming. This was also a key difference between my to systems. The system that failed to upgrade probably had between 200-300 hours of programming on it. The system that updated successfully would have only had around 60-80 hours of programming.


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## Aaron M (Apr 23, 2008)

Alright........ Found my original Instant Cake from the good old boys at DVR upgrade.... rebaked and Shazam - all better. - I had to go through the entire set up process again and of course delete all as required - but the machine is back up and running with nary an issue....... Lou reiterates the point I made in an earlier post. There are many variables involved in this sort of situation. I don't believe for a second that it's the Instant Cake software - but I refuse to believe that it's hardware related. At least from a HDD point. It works or it doesn't. You couple that in with the fact that my good friend and I have the same set up and live a 1000 miles apart....... and had the same thing happen to both our machines within 2 days of one another.. It has something to do with TiVo's update. Not Instant Cake - period. It didn't like something in our configurations - and there are only two constants there. The Drive and Instant Cake - but after having re-baked my drive with the same disk I originally set my Tivo Up with - and having a successful update - it's clear that it's not the Cake...... Perhaps Tivo Zapped a few of us........ (I know - not nice to think conspiracy - but couldn't resist) 

I leave with this parting thought......same hardware - same Instant Cake - But it udpates fine now and is running perfectly now? WTF? At least this keeps my techie brain tickin....... thanks for all the great posts guys.


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## TimeShifter (Dec 28, 2001)

To Norbus,

Sorry I was tied up for a while. My unit is still dead, however it did get powered off and on. I'm guessing that the original logs may be overwritten. I will take a look anyway. Also, here is a little more info regarding my environment. First, I do not have any modified or repaired Tivo units. They are all off the shelf units. Second, only one out of my four Series 2 units has a problem. Here is the list: (1) Toshiba TX-20 (was re-booting, now stuck on Clear & Delete after 9.3); (1) Humax DRT800 (on 9.3 with no problems); and (1) Toshiba SD-H400 (on 9.3 with no problems). I also have a Humax DRT400 that has been boxed and has not received the 9.3. If anyone has any suggestions on things I might check before I let my fourth unit upgrade (in case it fails), please let me know.

Thanks!


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

... is that i saw two hard drives in the past couple of weeks that came from TCD540 units; these were drives used in our upgrade kits (not using InstantCake, however) and after running extensive tests on them, they were not defective. We did not have the units to inspect, however after reimaging the drives and returning them to the customers, we have not heard of any problems.

Whatever the problem is, its a small percentage of people that are affected (we've sold more than a few upgrade kits for the TCD540 over the years). 

It may be a software issue, or it may be an issue that only arises in very specific situations; maybe a software problem which only arises when the TiVo is in a certain state, and has something else going on with the hardware. 

Really no way to tell unless a more telling pattern emerges.

The good news is that if you have the wherewithal to reimage your drive, then it looks like that solves the problem.


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## Kipperman (Nov 10, 2007)

Just lost mine too. any news on how to fix this?


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## norbus (Apr 13, 2007)

I will summarize:

Some Tivo units, but definitely not most if not almost all, after upgrading to 9.3a, go into an infinite loop and keep restarting never to boot again.

The problem is not hardware related for these few isolated systems.

So far, it only seems to affect people who have originally upgraded their capacity using MFStools.

The only known solution is to re-initialize your third party drives from scratch. Everyone so far has lost all of their programming and settings.

You can restore your original drive to a default setting through your own means, or use the InstantCake utilities provided by DVRUpgrade.com.

Also, there definitely is a high probability that a lot of problems are actually not related to this particular issue we've been experiencing in this thread. A broken Tivo needs to first be looked at from a hard drive issue.

We correlated based on kernel log files that indicated a library load error at the same point.

If, after your mount your drive through an MFS capable linux session, do not have this same kernel error then I would definitely point you in a different direction than this thread.

Personally, I used InstantCake 9.3a .iso to reset my unit, and have not had any issues since then (Tivo Series 2).

Eric


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## Kipperman (Nov 10, 2007)

Eric, 
Thank you for your summary.
I have verified in my kernel log the same Unexpected signal 11 error outlined in this thread at the same point in the library load. 
kernel: read 0x2adbc0000 /lib/libdl.so.2 

I also used mfstools (not insticake) to expand to 400GB

Does anyone have any clue where the corruption took place that is causing the reboot loop? I do not have a good kernel log to compare to. I have a backup of my kernel (partition 3). do you think replacing that will do the trick? I'd like to get some advice before i start making irreversible changes.
Thanks!


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