# Why Deleting Shows Only a Few Days Old with 60% space left?



## TheWizz (Aug 27, 2013)

I have a Roamio (OTA) and Roamio Pro (Xfinity), both have 3TB HDs. Once each DVR gets more than 40% full it starts marking shows for deletion after they have aged only 2-3 days. I have most shows setup to delete when space is needed. Have read that is best to let TiVo "manage" the space, but from what I see, it does a very poor job of managing that space. Afraid that if I mark some shows as Keep Until I Delete, that it make it worse for the shows set to Delete When Space Needed and they'll get removed even quicker. 

My question is why does it delete shows so quickly when there is 60% of the space left on the DVR? Is there anyway to fix/trick the DVR into waiting until it is closer to 80-85% full vs. 40% to mark and delete shows so quickly? Kind of frustrating to have 3TB of space and only able to use 40% of it before it "thinks" it is out of space and needs to purge.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Is it 'marking for deletion', or actually deleting?

The warning (yellow dot/yellow with exclamation point) mechanic is essentially meaningless - nothing will be deleted until space is actually needed. And if the unit does not become full, things will sit in that state for eternity.

If it's *actually* deleting while at only 40% full, that's different, and a problem to investigate.


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## TheWizz (Aug 27, 2013)

kdmorse said:


> Is it 'marking for deletion', or actually deleting?
> 
> The warning (yellow dot/yellow with exclamation point) mechanic is essentially meaningless - nothing will be deleted until space is actually needed. And if the unit does not become full, things will sit in that state for eternity.
> 
> If it's *actually* deleting while at only 40% full, that's different, and a problem to investigate.


It is marking and then 2-3 days later deleting, yet I never get above 40-44% full according to the DVR. Hence my concern and bringing this question up. Thanks.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Let's say you start recording prime time shows Sunday night. You record about 25 shows by Friday night. I only watch recordings on weekends. Yet 99% of the time nothing is ever even marked to delete. I also record late night during the week which I watch the next day and delete. Nothing has ever been deleted by the TiVo. With only a 500GB drive this can get me to 70% or more some weeks, especially if there is a movie also recorded. Now what I find interesting is that TiVo's Desktop program will show me the programs on the TiVo and they will have the yellow dot, some with an exclamation point. If I look at a show, the Keep Until Date is usually that day +1. But it just gets adjusted. So, don't get upset unless something gets really deleted. It's true that setting KUID is not advised. I have used it, but never had an issue. Oh yeah, my deleted items folder is emptied daily. OCD I guess.


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## JWhites (May 15, 2013)

My guess is because of a lot of OnePasses. My mom has a 500GB Roamio, has 96 OnePasses, and is at 40% full and is constantly getting warnings that there is not enough space for a recording since I've taught her to set every single recording to "Until I Delete" so the TiVo can't auto delete to make room.


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## TheWizz (Aug 27, 2013)

I do have a lot of OnePasses, ~120 on the Roamio and ~170 on the Roamio Pro. I'm guessing I'm not explaining it right. It IS deleting the shows that are only 2-3 days old all the time. Not just marking them for deletion, but keeping it's word and ACTUALLY deleting them after just a few days with ~60% of space left on each of the two DVRs.

Any ideas, other than marking everything as KUID, to get my DVRs to utilize more of the available space before deleting shows after just a few days??


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

That was going to be my question- do you use KUID extensively? And, is your deleted folder emptying out as well?


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## JWhites (May 15, 2013)

TheWizz said:


> Any ideas, other than marking everything as KUID, to get my DVRs to utilize more of the available space before deleting shows after just a few days??


I honestly would say that would be your best bet.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Is it possible that the number of episodes setting is being exceeded causing the problem?


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## TheWizz (Aug 27, 2013)

I cleaned out (all) my recently deleted via KMTTG, rebooted both DVRs and will keep an eye on them for the next few days reviewing "why" shows are being deleted. I normally record/keep only 3-5 shows at any given time, so hopefully it's mainly hitting the recording limit and not thinking it hit a space limit. Thanks for all the advice.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

TheWizz said:


> I cleaned out (all) my recently deleted via KMTTG, rebooted both DVRs and will keep an eye on them for the next few days reviewing "why" shows are being deleted. I normally record/keep only 3-5 shows at any given time, so hopefully it's mainly hitting the recording limit and not thinking it hit a space limit. Thanks for all the advice.


If you set the One Pass to keep only five episodes of a given show, when the sixth episode is recorded the oldest of the five will be deleted. Is this what's happening to you?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

TheWizz said:


> I have a Roamio (OTA) and Roamio Pro (Xfinity), both have 3TB HDs. Once each DVR gets more than 40% full it starts marking shows for deletion after they have aged only 2-3 days.


You haven't mentioned it, or I missed it, so I have to ask... What's your 1P setting for the "Keep at most:" field?

*Keep at most:* 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 10, 25, or ALL?​
-----

p.s. On a related note, is there any backdoor to allow setting a custom "Keep at most" value (i.e. an integer outside the above set)?


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

I just found this thread and am seeing the same issue.



I have 50% available space left and my OnePasses are all set to keep up to 25 episodes, yet I see some shows as showing they will be deleted on some short future date. Oddly it isn't on all shows as some that are there and older haven't shown up on the 'will delete soon' list. Very inconsistent!



Since that started showing up I've been changing OnePasses to keep until I delete. Of course that works, but I can't set that as the default, which is irritating in and of itself. If I could make that the default I would be a happy camper.


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## TheWizz (Aug 27, 2013)

krkaufman said:


> You haven't mentioned it, or I missed it, so I have to ask... What's your 1P setting for the "Keep at most:" field?
> 
> *Keep at most:* 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 10, 25, or ALL?​
> -----
> ...


 Most of my shows are set to keep 4-5 shows max. I am still watching to see what happens over the next few days to see if I am simply hitting the max keep shows limit. I have noticed that it seems to mark for deletion the lower priority recorded shows first, which would make sense.


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## choco (Nov 3, 2000)

If you look under Manage Recordings & OnePass > History and set the list to show all (press 'c'), does it tell you why particular shows were deleted?

On a side note, I noticed the other day that if you restart the Tivo from the menu (Settings & Messages > Help > Restart or Reset > Restart the Tivo box), it redoes the colored circles in front of the shows. Before a restart, I had some shows with yellow exclamation marks. After the restart, those circles turned blue again.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

There is definitely something we're missing or the OP has some sort of a defect (though to have it effect 2 DVRs at once makes the latter unlikely).

We have 2 Roamio Pros and one is used almost exclusively by my son. He never deletes a viewed recording, so that Roamio is always at 90% full, or more. There are Daily Shows going back to July, with about 130 1Ps. Virtually all the 1Ps are set to "Keep Until Space Needed," and "Keep All", with suggestions turned off.

The other Pro is pretty consistently between 60% and 70% full, with about 80 1Ps and the same recording settings. We have never seen anything deleted automatically.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

TheWizz said:


> Most of my shows are set to keep 4-5 shows max. I am still watching to see what happens over the next few days to see if I am simply hitting the max keep shows limit. I have noticed that it seems to mark for deletion the lower priority recorded shows first, which would make sense.


Heh, ok, yeah that's how it's designed to work, if I'm understanding you.

The TiVo will *mark* shows for deletion (!) based on your "keep" settings and what it sees in its "To Do List." For example, I have The Daily Show set to keep 10 episodes, so entries in its My Shows list will be set for deletion based on when an upcoming recording will bump it from the "10 latest" ordered list -- but it will only be moved to the "Recently Deleted" folder when the actual new recording forces it out.

At least that's what I'm seeing. (single Roamio Pro)


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

TheWizz said:


> I have a Roamio (OTA) and Roamio Pro (Xfinity), both have 3TB HDs. Once each DVR gets more than 40% full it starts marking shows for deletion after they have aged only 2-3 days. I have most shows setup to delete when space is needed. Have read that is best to let TiVo "manage" the space, but from what I see, it does a very poor job of managing that space. Afraid that if I mark some shows as Keep Until I Delete, that it make it worse for the shows set to Delete When Space Needed and they'll get removed even quicker.
> 
> My question is why does it delete shows so quickly when there is 60% of the space left on the DVR? Is there anyway to fix/trick the DVR into waiting until it is closer to 80-85% full vs. 40% to mark and delete shows so quickly? Kind of frustrating to have 3TB of space and only able to use 40% of it before it "thinks" it is out of space and needs to purge.


So the answer seems to be that you told it to keep just 4 shows, so when it needed to record show #5 it deleted the oldest of the 4 shows it had on hand. It had nothing to do with how full your TiVo was; absent some bug your TiVo will only delete a recording when it actually needs space to make a new recording. And it will never delete an intentional recording to record a suggestion.

I, like a lot of others, used to keep my TiVos 100% full with suggestions in order to know how much space was available intentional recordings; when I saw the Suggestions folder get small I would know it was time to make the hard choices.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

lparsons21 said:


> I have 50% available space left and my OnePasses are all set to keep up to 25 episodes, yet I see some shows as showing they will be deleted on some short future date. Oddly it isn't on all shows as some that are there and older haven't shown up on the 'will delete soon' list.


For those shows where you're seeing episodes marked for deletion (!), have you checked your Upcoming Episodes list (or To Do List) to correlate the targeted deletions with future recordings that would have rolled them off the "latest 25 recordings" per your "Keep at most" setting? For shows in syndication with a lot of airings, episodes can cycle through even a "latest 25" listing pretty quickly.

Also, how many episodes are currently recorded for one of the OnePasses in which you're seeing issues?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

TheWizz said:


> I have noticed that it seems to mark for deletion the lower priority recorded shows first, which would make sense.


Without any additional data to go off, I'd guess that what you're seeing is NOT the TiVo seemingly marking lower priority OnePass episodes for deletion in preference to episodes from a higher priority OnePass, but that your lower priority OnePasses may be associated with shows (i.e. syndication, reruns) that have a higher broadcast frequency and so the "latest 5" list will cycle much more quickly than will a new season of a network show where you're only recording one episode per week.

Just a guess.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

JWhites said:


> My mom has a 500GB Roamio, has 96 OnePasses, and is at 40% full and is constantly getting warnings that there is not enough space for a recording *since I've taught her to set every single recording to "Until I Delete"* so the TiVo can't auto delete to make room.


That was the worst possible advice. Turn off that rubbish and the warnings will go away.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> For those shows where you're seeing episodes marked for deletion (!), have you checked your Upcoming Episodes list (or To Do List) to correlate the targeted deletions with future recordings that would have rolled them off the "latest 25 recordings" per your "Keep at most" setting? For shows in syndication with a lot of airings, episodes can cycle through even a "latest 25" listing pretty quickly.
> 
> Also, how many episodes are currently recorded for one of the OnePasses in which you're seeing issues?


I've checked my upcoming episodes on the few that have shown up to be deleted and nothing looks like it would push things over the 25 episode mark. I've only had this unit a little over a month, so there wouldn't be many.

So far none of the ones that get marked for deletion involve a folder with more than 2 or 3 actual recordings in them, some of them have been movies with only one showing.

I cannot find any pattern to help in figuring out why it is doing it. Frankly I wish it would let me set 'keep until I delete' as a default, but if there is a way I can't find it. With my Hopper and Genie previous to this, that's the way I would set recording defaults. It works for me as I tend to delete after watching for almost all things except for a movie now and then.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

lparsons21 said:


> I've checked my upcoming episodes on the few that have shown up to be deleted and nothing looks like it would push things over the 25 episode mark. I've only had this unit a little over a month, so there wouldn't be many.
> 
> So far none of the ones that get marked for deletion involve a folder with more than 2 or 3 actual recordings in them, some of them have been movies with only one showing.
> 
> I cannot find any pattern to help in figuring out why it is doing it. Frankly I wish it would let me set 'keep until I delete' as a default, but if there is a way I can't find it. With my Hopper and Genie previous to this, that's the way I would set recording defaults. It works for me as I tend to delete after watching for almost all things except for a movie now and then.


Shows are "marked for deletion" by age only. Considerations of space and number allowed in the One Pass apply only to the process of actually deleting shows.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

ej42137 said:


> Shows are "marked for deletion" by age only. Considerations of space and number allowed in the One Pass apply only to the process of actually deleting shows.


??

Some of the ones that have shown up as marked for deletion have been less than a week old so I'm not sure what you are trying to say.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

If you use KUID too much, then eventually recordings and pending recordings will reserve space and the Tivo will start missing lower priority items. It should not be used liberally. I only use this when pulling something out of suggestions, like a movie.

If you put a limit on items, then older recordings get deleted as new ones come up. Series with frequent marathons can have impacts here, as is any that grows to the limit. I never limit this except for things that repeat daily/frequently, Tonight Show, for example.

The bubble in front a recording changes colors to indicate "may be deleted to make room" after just a few days (i think 3). It does not mean it will be deleted, "may" is the operative word and is a relic of smaller hard drives.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

jrtroo said:


> The bubble in front a recording changes colors to indicate "may be deleted to make room" after just a few days (i think 3). It does not mean it will be deleted, "may" is the operative word and is a relic of smaller hard drives.


That's spot on. Another relic is the Desktop software since it will display a My Shows from a TiVo with the "to be deleted" indicator despite it not being shown by the TiVo itself.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

Thanks. I have one show that is flagged to delete on Monday and I'll track it to see if it actually does. This all seems odd to me as I've not seen the rigamarole with recordings on any other DVRs that I've had over the years. Don't get me wrong, I love the Tivo Roamio and think it is overall better than others I've had, but they sure do some weird crap and leave out obvious features (like bulk deletions).



Most of my series recordings are set to 'new' only as I seldom want to record older episodes. I get almost all older episodes via streaming from the big 3 streamers I subscribe to. Main exception to that is some series on SyFy and others have new episodes that aren't marked that way, instead using the date the show was aired in another country.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Again, read what is says, it may be deleted.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

lparsons21 said:


> ??
> 
> Some of the ones that have shown up as marked for deletion have been less than a week old so I'm not sure what you are trying to say.


The time to keep a show before it is "marked for deletion" is only a few days. That means that if your TiVo needs the space it will feel free to delete the show without any warning to record a new show. But even if it were not "marked for deletion" if your TiVo couldn't otherwise find the space it would delete a previously recorded show unless it was marked "Keep Until I Delete", it would just attempt to warn you that it was going to do so. You'll see this warning if you review the to-do list; I used to see it all the time when I had a much smaller TiVo.

I think you're panicking over the fact that your shows are marked in yellow, and confusing that with shows actually being deleted. If you don't like this, you can change all your One Passes to KUID, but if you do that you'll have to manage your own space. Either that or start calling the yellow shows "Something I've Had for More than Five Days" instead of "Marked for Deletion".


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

Thanks.



I think I'm about ready to just ignore that listing completely!  I do so many recordings that if one disappeared it would probably be quite awhile before I actually noticed it gone.


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## jamesteixeira (Nov 22, 2014)

Previous thread about this discussion

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=526282


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

JWhites said:


> My guess is because of a lot of OnePasses. My mom has a 500GB Roamio, has 96 OnePasses, and is at 40% full and is constantly getting warnings that there is not enough space for a recording since I've taught her to set every single recording to "Until I Delete" so the TiVo can't auto delete to make room.


I've got around 180 Season Passes One Passes. None of them are set to KUID. I have no shows getting deleted and no warnings. I can be at 95% and all the shows recorded will still be there. they will not get deleted. I control how many shows are kept in the One pass. So many news programs I have set to keep 1 to 3 episodes, while scripted TV shows are set to keep between 5 episodes and 25 episodes. If I used KUID then I would have shows being deleted I didn't want. But by not using it I don't have any issues.


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## chicagobrownblue (May 29, 2008)

lparsons21 said:


> TMost of my series recordings are set to 'new' only ...


Be prepared for another quirk. TiVo relies on data provided by others to figure out "new only." I have a OnePass for "Cops" set to "new only." I regularly have to delete 5-6 to do recordings which do not have "new" set for the upcoming recordings. These errant recordings are at odd times so this confirms that they are not new.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

chicagobrownblue said:


> Be prepared for another quirk. TiVo relies on data provided by others to figure out "new only." I have a OnePass for "Cops" set to "new only." I regularly have to delete 5-6 to do recordings which do not have "new" set for the upcoming recordings. These errant recordings are at odd times so this confirms that they are not new.


That's a consistent problem on every dvr that depends on guide data that I've ever used. You also have to set 'new and reruns' on some of the foreign produced shows because they use the 1st date it showed elsewhere.


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## JWhites (May 15, 2013)

aaronwt said:


> I've got around 180 Season Passes One Passes. None of them are set to KUID. I have no shows getting deleted and no warnings. I can be at 95% and all the shows recorded will still be there. they will not get deleted. I control how many shows are kept in the One pass. So many news programs I have set to keep 1 to 3 episodes, while scripted TV shows are set to keep between 5 episodes and 25 episodes. If I used KUID then I would have shows being deleted I didn't want. But by not using it I don't have any issues.


All the OnePasses that are on the Roamio and Premiere are set to "all recordings" and every single show is set to KUID. I never have a problem with a show disappearing or getting deleted, I just watch what I record daily and don't need the TiVo to manage the number of episodes.


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## JWhites (May 15, 2013)

chicagobrownblue said:


> Be prepared for another quirk. TiVo relies on data provided by others to figure out "new only." I have a OnePass for "Cops" set to "new only." I regularly have to delete 5-6 to do recordings which do not have "new" set for the upcoming recordings. These errant recordings are at odd times so this confirms that they are not new.


I've found that only Spike has new episodes of Cops Saturday's at 8pm and replays at 10:30pm, so wouldn't it be a better idea to just set the OnePass to record that specific channel at either of those times? I've never had a problem.


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## JWhites (May 15, 2013)

lparsons21 said:


> That's a consistent problem on every dvr that depends on guide data that I've ever used. You also have to set 'new and reruns' on some of the foreign produced shows because they use the 1st date it showed elsewhere.


Yes, I've seen this problem with Rookie Blue and other shows that originate from and air in Canada, and then air in the United States afterwards.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

JWhites said:


> All the OnePasses that are on the Roamio and Premiere are set to "all recordings" and every single show is set to KUID. I never have a problem with a show disappearing or getting deleted, I just watch what I record daily and don't need the TiVo to manage the number of episodes.


This does not cause deletions as much as it causes things to not be recorded.


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