# Buying new - Bolt vs Roamio



## opus472

Looking for a replacement for my Tivo HD. The Roamio offers 6 tuners and larger HDD capacity, while the Bolt offers skipmode and quickmode. Any other pros and cons for either of these? Faster processor or other stuff you can't easily see? Thanks!


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## tarheelblue32

The processor is definitely much faster in the Bolt. The Roamios will eventually get QuickMode, and *MAY* someday get SkipMode, but there are no guarantees of that. Going with a Roamio is obviously going to be the cheaper option, and TiVo is currently offering a $99 lifetime special on the 6-tuner Roamios to TiVo customers who are upgrading from an older TiVo unit. There are also indications that a 6+ tuner Bolt will be released sometime next year.


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## ScottUrman

I just ordered a Roamio Plus at the $450 loyalty discount (including lifetime) price. That was the key difference for me - namely being able to get lifetime for (way) under $1000. No need for 4K, plus the 6 tuners is a bonus.

Coming from a lifetimed S3 (which I plan on ebaying).


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## eric102

Skipmode alone was enough for me to add a Bolt to the fleet (already had 2 Roamios and a half dozen minis), having it available through the minis was a huge plus which I wasn't expecting when I bought it.

The only con for me is 4 tuners which so far hasn't been an issue since I use the Roamios to record channels that don't have skipmode available.


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## gigaguy

Since you have a TiVo HD I'd say price could be a big factor if Tivo will give you the Roamio Plus w/lifetime loyalty discount. The new Bolt design effects some buyers decision too. good luck.


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## nobody0101

If you absolutely need those 2 extra tuners and the Stream capability then Roamio is the obvious choice.

Otherwise go with the Bolt. It is so responsive that it only took me a few hours to decide to sell off my Roamio with Lifetime sub. Not to mention the other features that may or may not filter down to the other models.


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## Dan203

At this point I would never buy a Roamio Basic over a Bolt. However a Roamio Plus or Pro is a tough choice. The Roamio Plus/Pro has 6 tuners and out of home streaming, the Bolt has SkipMode and better hardware, especially for apps.


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## andyw715

I'm in the same boat, while I do like the idea of skip mode, I also like the idea of $99 lifetime and 2 more tuners.

There are def some shows that I am unable to record due to not enough tuners on the HD.

Also drive space would need to be upgraded on either the Plus or Bolt. My HD has the WD Extender Drive 1TB, and I'm usually down to under 10 shows in the Deleted Folder. I've hit the no space, no record situation a few times, especially in the spring.

Initial outlay would favor the Bolt, but yearly service or a future discount of All-In can't match the $99 lifetime on the Roamio.

A Pro can be had for 600
A Plus upgraded to 3TB is 550
A Bolt (500GB) upgraded to 3TB is $450 - 500? 

It really boils down to features such as SkipMode and UI responsiveness compared with tuners and a more mature product.

I still don't have an answer. Flip Flopping


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## raqball

I have been very, very, very frustrated with Tivo and I sold my Roamio with lifetime a few months ago..

I am considering the Bolt but have a few questions if anyone can answer.

1) I assume downloads are still gone. I subscribe to several podcasts (mainly TWIT) and they would automatically download when new episodes were released and would show in OnePass. Tivo did away with this a while back in favor of Web Video Hotlist (or whatever it's called). I don't mind streaming them if I can make a OnePass for them and I am altered when a new episode is available to view. Is this now possible?

Web Video Hotlist was a slow and cumbersome mess on my Romaio.

2) I assume the Bolt will work with analog cable? Ionly have analog (for now) where the cable goes directly into the TV. I get like 70 something channels. I assume the cable would then just go into the Bolt and I'd be fine but figured I'd ask before bother to buy one. I can't get a cable card as the cable co. only offers the card for their digital offerings.


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## Dan203

1) As far as I know the functionality for this app has not changed.

2) No, the Bolt is digital cable or digital OTA only.


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## atmuscarella

raqball said:


> I have been very, very, very frustrated with Tivo and I sold my Roamio with lifetime a few months ago..
> 
> I am considering the Bolt but have a few questions if anyone can answer.
> 
> 1) I assume downloads are still gone. I subscribe to several podcasts (mainly TWIT) and they would automatically download when new episodes were released and would show in OnePass. Tivo did away with this a while back in favor of Web Video Hotlist (or whatever it's called). I don't mind streaming them if I can make a OnePass for them and I am altered when a new episode is available to view. Is this now possible?
> 
> Web Video Hotlist was a slow and cumbersome mess on my Romaio.
> 
> 2) I assume the Bolt will work with analog cable? Ionly have analog (for now) where the cable goes directly into the TV. I get like 70 something channels. I assume the cable would then just go into the Bolt and I'd be fine but figured I'd ask before bother to buy one. I can't get a cable card as the cable co. only offers the card for their digital offerings.


Downloads still gone , Video Hotlist is faster but still not very useful, the Bolt DOES NOT work with analog cable - NO TiVo has worked with analog cable since the dual tuner Premiere.


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## raqball

I can upgrade to digital ahead of time, no problem there so I guess what's going to stop me from doing so and getting the Bolt is the fact that Web Video HotList is still complete garbage.

Bummer! I guess I had hoped that Tivo fixed it since they are claiming the Bolt is a Unified Entertainment System.. I guess I took that to mean something other than what it is..

Thanks for the responses!


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## trip1eX

IF you can swing it, the $450 Roamio Plus with lifetime is the choice here. Not really any contest. 

The 500gb Bolt will cost you $450 in just 1 year. And you're still on the hook for future yearly subscription payments.


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## Dan203

trip1eX said:


> The 500gb Bolt will cost you $450 in just 1 year. And you're still on the hook for future yearly subscription payments.


The first year is included in the price, so it would take 2 years to get to $450. But the idea still holds. A lifetime Roamio Plus is probably a better deal.


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## jonw747

The Bolt may be faster, but the Roamio Plus is plenty fast for DVR duties. It's a bit slow loading Apps. I'd actually like to see someone open Apps on the Bolt to see how much that's improved.

The Roamio Plus also has much nicer build quality, and it's very easy to upgrade or replace the hard drive. It also still sports component video ports for connecting up another TV, Slingbox, etc.


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## Dan203

jonw747 said:


> The Bolt may be faster, but the Roamio Plus is plenty fast for DVR duties. It's a bit slow loading Apps. I'd actually like to see someone open Apps on the Bolt to see how much that's improved.


It's a lot faster. Not only that but the Netflix app stays loaded in the background so it launches instantly after the first use.


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## georgeorwell86

jonw747 said:


> The Roamio Plus also has much nicer build quality, and it's very easy to upgrade or replace the hard drive. It also still sports component video ports for connecting up another TV, Slingbox, etc.


Yeah, that last part is kind of a big deal for me. Being on TWC, if I ever want to do serious streaming outside the house, it's going to have to be Slingbox...as the only channels that stream currently are the major networks.


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## HarperVision

raqball said:


> ....... 2) I assume the Bolt will work with analog cable? Ionly have analog (for now) where the cable goes directly into the TV. I get like 70 something channels. I assume the cable would then just go into the Bolt and I'd be fine but figured I'd ask before bother to buy one. I can't get a cable card as the cable co. only offers the card for their digital offerings.


Does your cable co offer digital simulcast of their basic/standard SD channels? Who is your cable co?

I ask this because if they do you can indeed get a Cablecard with their standard package because all the channels are mapped to their digital equivalents if you use one, so you can use a Premiere 4 through Bolt model TiVo, even though they don't have an analog tuner.

It will probably be a bonus too because if you use a Cablecard the HD network channels are usually viewable too, and maybe some other sporadic channels as well.

I have Time Warner limited basic (even below what you have) and I use a Cablecard and it maps all the channels I pay for plus quite a few others with a lot in HD.

Just tell them you use a tivo and need the Cablecard to map the channels to their proper places. They should understand.


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## raqball

HarperVision said:


> Does your cable co offer digital simulcast of their basic/standard SD channels? Who is your cable co?
> 
> I ask this because if they do you can indeed get a Cablecard with their standard package because all the channels are mapped to their digital equivalents if you use one, so you can use a Premiere 4 through Bolt model TiVo, even though they don't have an analog tuner.
> 
> It will probably be a bonus too because if you use a Cablecard the HD network channels are usually viewable too, and maybe some other sporadic channels as well.
> 
> I have Time Warner limited basic (even below what you have) and I use a Cablecard and it maps all the channels I pay for plus quite a few others with a lot in HD.
> 
> Just tell them you use a tivo and need the Cablecard to map the channels to their proper places. They should understand.


I'll call again and ask but was told they only offer cable cards for their digital packages. The cable company is Brighthouse.

I hardly ever watch TV and mainly would use the Tivo to record a few shows I follow (nothing major like many power users here) and for the streaming apps. I'd love a 'Unified Entertainment System' and thought that is what the Bolt offered.

I'd use the apps and Web Video Hotlist just as much, if not more, than the DVR. I really don't care about commercial skip to be honest. They don't bother me at all...

With downloads still MIA and with Web Video Hotlist still being junk, I don't think the Bolt would do the trick for me.

Right now I am DVR'less and I use an Apple TV and or a Roku for streaming apps. I'd love to have one box that does both...

I saw the Bolt was advertised as a 'Unified Entertainment System' and figured it was what I was looking for. I had a Romaio with lifetime and it was sold because it also did not meet my needs..

Oh well, maybe the next Tivo will actually be a Unified Entertainment System...


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## Nelson2009

Only thing is if your cable provider have 4k ready in your area maybe good to get it. What I remember back 2004 HD was ready in my area. There was only few channels. by the time 2008 we had completely HD channels. Getting 4K could take long while get all 4k channels. To stick with Roamio or Premiere are still good for few years down the road.


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## Dan203

No cable companies are currently broadcasting 4k. Comcast has some sort of 4K feature, but it uses IP streaming so it can't be recorded.


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## Brolan

Wait for the Bolt Pro next year. I'm betting most TiVo veterans buying the current Bolt will end up buying the Bolt Pro because of the limitations. Save yourself some money.


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## raqball

I picked one up from Best Buy... What the heck as I have 15 days to test it out.. My cable co gave me a very sweet deal I could not pass up on digital and internet and they are coming to instal the cable card tomorrow.

Guess I'll see how it goes and decide at the 15 day mark if I want to keep it or not..

I know Tivo has a 30-day return but I think best Buy is only 15-days..


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## GIXX1300

I opted to replace my two tuner Premiere with a Roamio Plus instead of the Bolt. I'm thinking two to three years for a worthy upgrade and the Roamio with All in One is cheaper over that span. Picked up a Mini also for my Movie Room and am quite pleased. I'm sure we'll see a Bolt revision either color or style with added tuners and a cheaper All in one price. Couldn't see $600 for that.


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## trip1eX

Dan203 said:


> The first year is included in the price, so it would take 2 years to get to $450. But the idea still holds. A lifetime Roamio Plus is probably a better deal.


You will be at $450 in 1 year. $300 up front and $150 exactly 1 year later.

I assumed one would pay yearly. If you pay monthly then it would take 1 yr 10 months to get to $450.


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## raqball

trip1eX said:


> You will be at $450 in 1 year. $300 up front and $150 exactly 1 year later.


Why skew the math? It is what it is... Glass half full or half empty?


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## raqball

I got the Bolt all setup and rockin' minus the actual TV portion as the cable card is not getting installed until tomorrow morning.

A few thoughts -v- the Roamio I had and sold.


The Bolt is fast and I mean lightning fast! It's not even close, the Bolt demolishes the Roamio as far a speed goes.
I am watching a Twit show right now on it (Mac Break Weekly) via Web Video Hotlist and it's pretty darn fast. I think I can live with Web Video Hotlist on the Bolt whereas that was one of the reason I sold the Roamio.
Netflix loads instantly. Blink and it's loaded.
I am connected via WiFi and the video stream is just as good as it is on my Apple TV and Roku 3. 
Wish the unit was black but I can live with the white


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## trip1eX

raqball said:


> Why skew the math? It is what it is... Glass half full or half empty?


Sorry nothing skewed about it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## raqball

trip1eX said:


> Sorry nothing skewed about it.


Both #'s are actually correct. One way makes the Bolt look like it costs more than it does (your numbers) and the other is the actual end price to the user at the end of their commitment / subscription period.

If someone is trying to self justify not buying the Bolt they can use your skewed #'s and they are happy with the choice to pass on it.

You prepay for the Tivo service so using your method, everything on the planet earth that requires you to pay a monthly fee ends up looking expensive.

Using your math = Netflix? Holy cow I pay $16 for it? $8 at the start and another $8 on day 31.

Rinse , lather repeat...

Your numbers are most certainly skewed to reflect unrealistic pricing but I'll digress...


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## CoxInPHX

Dan203 said:


> Not only that but the Netflix app stays loaded in the background so it launches instantly after the first use.


I thought at first this must be a bug, even the Exit Netflix prompt does not close Netflix. You must go to the Gear Icon and Exit there.

But then I read about the extra RAM and keeping Apps running in the background for a quicker launch time. I hope they can do this with more Apps.


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## trip1eX

raqball said:


> Both #'s are actually correct. One way makes the Bolt look like it costs more than it does (your numbers) and the other is the actual end price to the user at the end of their commitment / subscription period.
> 
> If someone is trying to self justify not buying the Bolt they can use your skewed #'s and they are happy with the choice to pass on it.
> 
> You prepay for the Tivo service so using your method, everything on the planet earth that requires you to pay a monthly fee ends up looking expensive.
> 
> Using your math = Netflix? Holy cow I pay $16 for it? $8 at the start and another $8 on day 31.
> 
> Rinse , lather repeat...
> 
> Your numbers are most certainly skewed to reflect unrealistic pricing but I'll digress...


You didn't read the 2 replies before so you have no idea what is being talked about.

And btw, even in a vacuum, nothing skewed with saying you're out $450 after 1 year of owning a Bolt.


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## raqball

trip1eX said:


> You didn't read the 2 replies before so you have no idea what is being talked about.
> 
> And btw, even in a vacuum, nothing skewed with saying you're out $450 after 1 year of owning a Bolt.


Okie dokie.... Have a great day


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## trip1eX

raqball said:


> Okie dokie.... Have a great day


IN other words you still don't realize you weren't following the conversation that happened before you replied?


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## raqball

^^ LOL ^^

I read, followed and understood the thread just fine, Anywho, I don't generally respond to people who try and cram their opinion down the throats of others..

To me the pricing on the Bolt is just fine as it is.. After 2 years of service I will have spent $450. You can choose to say it's one year all you want and in your mind, it's obviously correct so rock on and have a great day as I won't be responding to you again..


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## trip1eX

raqball said:


> ^^ LOL ^^
> 
> I read, followed and understood the thread just fine, Anywho, I don't generally respond to people who try and cram their opinion down the throats of others..
> 
> To me the pricing on the Bolt is just fine as it is.. After 2 years of service I will have spent $450. You can choose to say it's one year all you want and in your mind, it's obviously correct so rock on and have a great day as I won't be responding to you again..


IT's not an opinion. If you buy a Bolt, you're out $450 after 1 year if you pay yearly.

You don't seem to realize I was comparing the Bolt to the $450 Roamio Plus lifetime deal someone mentioned. That's why I mentioned the cost of the Bolt with an extra year of service.

I originally thought it would take 2 years to get up to $450 with the Bolt. But then it dawned on me that you actually have to pay the $150 at the beginning of year two or 1 year after you buy the Bolt.

And so it actually would take just 1 year to reach the same $450 cost of that Roamio Plus lifetime deal.

Because of that, the Roamio Plus with lifetime for $450 is definitely the way to go if you can swing that deal. And yes that part is an opinion.


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## jonw747

trip1eX said:


> Because of that, the Roamio Plus with lifetime for $450 is definitely the way to go if you can swing that deal. And yes that part is an opinion.


Regardless of what period you account over, the Roamio Plus is a terrific DVR and at $450 it simply blows away the Bolt as a DVR in terms of capability, capacity, out of house streaming, upgrade ability, and price. The commercial skip functionality is pretty much the only DVR feature the Bolt has over the Plus/Pro.

4K streaming is a nice feature for people who own a 4K TV, but there are cheaper ways to buy that assuming it isn't already built in to your TV.

The Bolt Pro will certainly pique interest, but until it's actually possible to record in 4k? Meh...


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## sangs

jonw747 said:


> Regardless of what period you account over, the Roamio Plus is a terrific DVR and at $450 it simply blows away the Bolt as a DVR in terms of capability, capacity, out of house streaming, upgrade ability, and price. The commercial skip functionality is pretty much the only DVR feature the Bolt has over the Plus/Pro.4K streaming is a nice feature for people who own a 4K TV, but there are cheaper ways to buy that assuming it isn't already built in to your TV. The Bolt Pro will certainly pique interest, but until it's actually possible to record in 4k? Meh...


That's one man's opinion. After using the Bolt for a week, I would never go back to the Roamio. Bolt is faster in every single area. And the bonuses of 4K, Skipmode and Quickmode are cherries on top. Thrilled we took the leap.


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## aaronwt

sangs said:


> That's one man's opinion. After using the Bolt for a week, I would never go back to the Roamio. Bolt is faster in every single area. And the bonuses of 4K, Skipmode and Quickmode are cherries on top. Thrilled we took the leap.


The quick mode and skip mode really sold me on the Bolt. That and the faster interface easily make it better than the Roamio line. Whether that is worth the price though is up to each person to decide.


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## georgeorwell86

aaronwt said:


> The quick mode and skip mode really sold me on the Bolt. That and the faster interface easily make it better than the Roamio line. Whether that is worth the price though is up to each person to decide.


I agree. At first I didn't notice much difference in interface speed, but after using it for a few days...it is really much faster. Really like that Netflix stays running in the background as well. The thing that really put me over the edge was the upgraded Plex. Plex is much faster (load and navigation) and passes through 1080p. My Fire TV isn't getting much use after getting the Bolt and having cable and local file playback all in one box.


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## jonw747

sangs said:


> That's one man's opinion. After using the Bolt for a week, I would never go back to the Roamio. Bolt is faster in every single area. And the bonuses of 4K, Skipmode and Quickmode are cherries on top. Thrilled we took the leap.


Nope, just facts:

6 tuners > 4 tuners
6 TB with red drive > 4 TB (with archive drive)
4 simultaneous streams > 1 stream (soon to be 2)
$450 > $900
black metal case > wavy white plastic case

and Roamio will be getting quick mode (already has it with Mini).

DVR functions with the Roamio are very fast, so, that's a fact too unless you consider Netflix and Plex to be DVR functions.


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## georgeorwell86

jonw747 said:


> nope, just facts:
> 
> 6 tuners > 4 tuners
> 6 tb with red drive > 4 tb (with archive drive)
> 4 simultaneous streams > 1 stream (soon to be 2)
> $450 > $900
> black metal case > wavy white plastic case
> 
> and roamio will be getting quick mode (already has it with mini).
> 
> Dvr functions with the roamio are very fast, so, that's a fact too unless you consider netflix and plex to be dvr functions.


$450 > $900?


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## tarheelblue32

georgeorwell86 said:


> $450 > $900?


I'm pretty sure he's using the "greater than" sign figuratively rather than literally.


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## jonw747

georgeorwell86 said:


> $450 > $900?


Yes spending $450 is greater than ("better than") spending $900.

Just don't try that in a math class ...


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## sangs

jonw747 said:


> Nope, just facts:
> 
> 6 tuners > 4 tuners
> 6 TB with red drive > 4 TB (with archive drive)
> 4 simultaneous streams > 1 stream (soon to be 2)
> $450 > $900
> black metal case > wavy white plastic case
> 
> and Roamio will be getting quick mode (already has it with Mini).
> 
> DVR functions with the Roamio are very fast, so, that's a fact too unless you consider Netflix and Plex to be DVR functions.


Nope, opinion. Just like mine. And I consider Netflix, Plex and others to be TiVo functions. Also, I don't think Ira made it sound like QuickMode going to Roamio was a sure thing. Unless I'm remembering incorrectly.


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## Scott R. Scherr

Quickmode is coming to the Roamio's. I already have it on a Mini and do not have a Bolt.

Much rather have SkipMode though.


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## trip1eX

Bolt is probably better model if you don't consider price. I mean you could buy 2 Bolts to somewhat make up for the loss of tuners and hd space etc albeit 2 Tivos don't exactly integrate seamlessly into one. 

But the $450 Roamio Plus with lifetime deal is easily the best buy.


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## Jrr6415sun

atmuscarella said:


> Downloads still gone , Video Hotlist is faster but still not very useful, the Bolt DOES NOT work with analog cable - NO TiVo has worked with analog cable since the dual tuner Premiere.


why exactly did they make the new TiVo's not work with analog? I know that only a small amount of people can still get analog, but is it really that hard/expensive to allow both digital and analog on a box?

I know in my area everyone still gets analog, it would be a much easier process if I didn't have to deal with a cablecard.


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## atmuscarella

Jrr6415sun said:


> why exactly did they make the new TiVo's not work with analog? I know that only a small amount of people can still get analog, but is it really that hard/expensive to allow both digital and analog on a box?
> 
> I know in my area everyone still gets analog, it would be a much easier process if I didn't have to deal with a cablecard.


It is a hard ware cost item. With digital you record the actual stream no special hardware needed. With analog you have to convert the analog stream to digital, which require more hardware.


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## markjrenna

:up:Love it. Could not agree more.

Obviously money is an object and the major factor in which model to get. Putting that aside, next would be tuners. If you can live with 4... It appears that everyone (if willing) should buy the 500 Gig model and then get yourself a 3 TB drive and then space is not an issue.

I love QuickMode. Who doesn't like SkipMode.

The integrated OTT apps and just how fast, responsive, and matured (someone mentioned matured. It is matured) the Bolt is.

I will probably get the new Bolt 6 tuner (in addition to this Bolt) next year when that is available.



sangs said:


> That's one man's opinion. After using the Bolt for a week, I would never go back to the Roamio. Bolt is faster in every single area. And the bonuses of 4K, Skipmode and Quickmode are cherries on top. Thrilled we took the leap.


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## srwdc1

I have a Roamio Basic, since it's now my tuner for OTA (antenna) feed. I don't have Cable subscription anymore-- my TV now is OTA (major networks in Washington DC) plus NetFlix, plus Amazon Video. We can live without ESPN.

I don't need four tuners, etc. Basically I use the Roamio to record the occasional TV show (PBS, Scandal, etc). The guide part of Tivo is good, and with TIVO connecting to Amazon Video and Netflix, that's only one input source we (i.e. my spouse) has to learn. 

If I recall, the Roamio was $199 (or a bit less buying from Amazon). Plus the annoying monthly/annual fees.

Now it seems the Bolt will do all that, plus add "commercial skipping". Bolt will accept HD antenna, and (if we ever go back to Cable, a cable card, obviously). Bolt has Netflix and Amazon Video. And Bolt is $299 with one year of subscription included, so $150 net. Seems obviously a better deal than Roamio basic.....

So. here's my question to this group of pros.....

Is my understanding correct about HD antenna, skipping on recorded OTA TV shows, and Netflix/Amazon Video?

Any resale value for my Roamio Basic?

Any chance Tivo / Bolt will accept the streaming versions of Showtime, HBO, SlingTV (which includes ESPN and CNN) that I can get through a Roku device? Tivo/Bolt seems to limit streaming to only Amazon Video, Netflix, Hulu, and Vudu as streaming services.... (the second device-- Roku-- is a 2nd level of complexity that my spouse doesn't use, yet.) 

many thanks in advance!
-Steve


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## atmuscarella

srwdc1: SkipMode works fine on the major OTA networks (ABC, CBS, CW, FOX, & NBC) prime time shows. I am guessing that a Base Roamio without service has very little resale value ($50?). Streaming apps on the Roamio and Bolt are likely to stay the same as soon as they get the new Hulu app out and while TiVo is trying to get new apps no one knows if they will or not.

If your Roamio is past the 1 year commitment and you are monthly I would buy a Bolt today and switch.


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## ThreeSoFar'sBro

I'm considering updating to the Bolt. My only concern is that my cable provider (WOW!) is claiming the m-card will only handle two tuners. Is that true, or can it handle all four tuners?

Also, I think I heard that the Bolt will get out of home streaming, is that correct?

THANKS ALL!


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## zerdian1

I think that the Bolt OTA and Cable DVR has the components, I believe, to make it a software upgrade to become the new Comcast and TiVo CableCard less DVR.

Comcast and TiVo announced the joint effort last summer (July 2014).

This would also make sense with what the Comcast techs said was their new ComCast Xfinity CableCard less DVR.

The M Card should be able to handle 6 tuners.

But in the CableCard less era DVRs the 6 Tuner limitation goes away.


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## HarperVision

ThreeSoFar'sBro said:


> I'm considering updating to the Bolt. My only concern is that my cable provider (WOW!) is claiming the m-card will only handle two tuners. Is that true, or can it handle all four tuners? Also, I think I heard that the Bolt will get out of home streaming, is that correct? THANKS ALL!


M Cards are capable of up to six tuners and some firmwares are even tested up to 8.

Yes the Bolt will be able to do OOH eventually with an update.


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## JohnCap523

A newb here, tired of the kludge of the X1 DVR and the garbage FiOS DVRs.

Here are my options: $299 Bolt including one year of service and bundled Minis for $99/ea.

OR

Recertfified Roamio Plus for $299 including one year of service and $118/ea for Minis.

Here are my concerns: I have 6 tuners now on my X1 DVR. Going down to 4 shared tuners concerns me. A lot!

I like reading about the hardware performance of the Bolt and am not sure how much faster it may actually be, but I'm concerned that the Roamio is end of life.

I'm also concerned about wear and tear on a recertified Roamio vs getting a new Bolt, but going from desktop level hardware to mobile class hardware also concerns me.

Lastly, a setup question. The first time I chatted with TiVo support, I was told obviously I need a Mini on any other TV I want to have DVR and app access but I was told i did NOT need any hardware at all for other TVs that only needed access to my Comcast channel lineup. I mulled that for a few days and called just now and was scoffed at. So, which is it, do I need at least a Comcast DTA for TVs not connected to a Mini or will they get channels directly over coax as the first guy told me.

BTW, I'm not impressed with TiVo support people.


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## JohnCap523

zerdian1 said:


> I think that the Bolt OTA and Cable DVR has the components, I believe, to make it a software upgrade to become the new Comcast and TiVo CableCard less DVR.
> 
> Comcast and TiVo announced the joint effort last summer (July 2014).
> 
> This would also make sense with what the Comcast techs said was their new ComCast Xfinity CableCard less DVR.
> 
> The M Card should be able to handle 6 tuners.
> 
> But in the CableCard less era DVRs the 6 Tuner limitation goes away.


I was told the Comcast TiVo deal was nullified prior to rolling out the X1 platform.


----------



## JohnCap523

trip1eX said:


> Bolt is probably better model if you don't consider price. I mean you could buy 2 Bolts to somewhat make up for the loss of tuners and hd space etc albeit 2 Tivos don't exactly integrate seamlessly into one.
> 
> But the $450 Roamio Plus with lifetime deal is easily the best buy.


Where is there a $450 Roamio Plus with lifetime deal? I don't see it anywhere. In fact I don't even see the Plus on the TiVo site except for their Thanksgiving sale, and that's for recertified units only.


----------



## snerd

JohnCap523 said:


> I'm also concerned about wear and tear on a recertified Roamio vs getting a new Bolt, but going from desktop level hardware to mobile class hardware also concerns me.


I've had two refurbished Roamio's, and both appeared to be brand new. I suspect that most refurbished units were returned during the 30-day trial and are perfectly functional and lightly used.



> Lastly, a setup question. The first time I chatted with TiVo support, I was told obviously I need a Mini on any other TV I want to have DVR and app access but I was told i did NOT need any hardware at all for other TVs that only needed access to my Comcast channel lineup. I mulled that for a few days and called just now and was scoffed at. So, which is it, do I need at least a Comcast DTA for TVs not connected to a Mini or will they get channels directly over coax as the first guy told me.


I think what the TiVO CSR was trying to say was that you didn't need any *additional* equipment to continue watching TV's that are currently working with Comcast boxes. Comcast encrypts their channels, so some kind of box must be in play for each TV.



> BTW, I'm not impressed with TiVo support people.


You're preaching to the choir on that point.


----------



## snerd

JohnCap523 said:


> Where is there a $450 Roamio Plus with lifetime deal? I don't see it anywhere. In fact I don't even see the Plus on the TiVo site except for their Thanksgiving sale, and that's for recertified units only.


You are quoting articles that are over a month old. TiVo had some sweet deals during the summer and late fall for refurbished units with lifetime service.

If you owned a TiVo previously and they still have an account for you, then they have a special for lifetimed Roamio Pro for ~ $600 (assuming they haven't all been snarfed up yet).


----------



## JohnCap523

snerd said:


> I've had two refurbished Roamio's, and both appeared to be brand new. I suspect that most refurbished units were returned during the 30-day trial and are perfectly functional and lightly used.


I don't know about that. Considering that they cover boxes under the monthly service fee I'm sure dead boxes that are swapped out for $49 are repaired and resold. I doubt they scrap them.



snerd said:


> I think what the TiVO CSR was trying to say was that you didn't need any *additional* equipment to continue watching TV's that are currently working with Comcast boxes. Comcast encrypts their channels, so some kind of box must be in play for each TV.


I thought I was crystal clear with him about TVs I would not be connecting Minis to, but after going round and round with three techs today on the question, it's clear I overestimated his knowledge and understanding of the question.



snerd said:


> You're preaching to the choir on that point.


----------



## snerd

JohnCap523 said:


> I don't know about that. Considering that they cover boxes under the monthly service fee I'm sure dead boxes that are swapped out for $49 are repaired and resold. I doubt they scrap them.


No doubt the pool of refurbished units includes repairs. I'm merely speculating that units returned from 30-day trials probably outnumber repairs. That is why I said "most".


----------



## JohnCap523

And the plot thickens. Browsing a Roamio thread someone commented that the Pace XG1 DVR is essentially the Roamio. Well, my Xfinity X1 DVR is a Pace XG1, so now I'm wondering what I'd be gaining going from X1 to TiVO other than knocking about $20 off my monthly bill. Has anyone on here used or had X1 that can give me some opinions on performance and usability compared to TiVo?

And even more. I'v been been offered a 4 tuner Roamio with lifetime service and a Mini for $400. Was used for three months.


----------



## snerd

JohnCap523 said:


> And even more. I'v been been offered a 4 tuner Roamio with lifetime service and a Mini for $400. Was used for three months.


If that knocks $20/mo off your bill, then it will pay for itself in 20 months. Seems like a pretty good option to me, but I'm obviously biased towards TiVo


----------



## JohnCap523

snerd said:


> If that knocks $20/mo off your bill, then it will pay for itself in 20 months. Seems like a pretty good option to me, but I'm obviously biased towards TiVo


I wish it was that simple. First there's considering whether the TiVo interface is actually more efficient than the X1. Since I've never seen TiVo live in person, all I've seen is reviews and demonstrations on YouTube which, frankly, make the TiVo interface look more akin to the standard Comcast and FiOS interfaces, which are in the stone ages compared to the X1 interface. That said, the Pace XG1 box is a dog. Again, if the XG1 is a dog, and is essentially a Roamio... See my conundrum?

Then there's the buying options of the Roamio 4 tuner vs the Plus vs the Bolt options, all of which have their advantages.


----------



## snerd

JohnCap523 said:


> Then there's the buying options of the Roamio 4 tuner vs the Plus vs the Bolt options, all of which have their advantages.


I'd suggest that you decide which TiVo option best meets your needs and give it a try. If you hate it, you have 30 days to return it for a full refund.

I'd also suggest that you decide quickly, as the deals on refurbished TiVos are "while supplies last" and recent experience suggest that the window won't be open very long.

Good luck.


----------



## JohnCap523

snerd said:


> I'd suggest that you decide which TiVo option best meets your needs and give it a try. If you hate it, you have 30 days to return it for a full refund.
> 
> I'd also suggest that you decide quickly, as the deals on refurbished TiVos are "while supplies last" and recent experience suggest that the window won't be open very long.
> 
> Good luck.


I was just reading an article about extended versions of the Bolt being in the pipeline and firesales on all existing Roamio inventory so... It's just making me hesitate.

And the best deal on Bolt is through BestBuy which is only 15 days for returns.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi

JohnCap523 said:


> I wish it was that simple. First there's considering whether the TiVo interface is actually more efficient than the X1. Since I've never seen TiVo live in person, all I've seen is reviews and demonstrations on YouTube which, frankly, make the TiVo interface look more akin to the standard Comcast and FiOS interfaces, which are in the stone ages compared to the X1 interface. That said, the Pace XG1 box is a dog. Again, if the XG1 is a dog, and is essentially a Roamio... See my conundrum?
> 
> Then there's the buying options of the Roamio 4 tuner vs the Plus vs the Bolt options, all of which have their advantages.


I tried the X1 box out for a week or so before I bought my TiVo. I think TiVo is better for what it's worth.


----------



## aaronwt

The X1 UI is so annoying to me when I use it at my parents house. I most recently used it on Thanksgiving. There are so many things I dislike about it when compared to a TiVo. But the X1 UI is certainly much better than what they used to have on the Comcast boxes around here.


----------



## JohnCap523

Two things I especially like about the X1 DVR is searching is uber simple because all you do is start typing a title, no menus to navigate at all. And the search includes scheduled TV, DVR's material and OnDemand. Now I realize TiVo includes streaming titles but I don't believe it includes integrating Comcast OnDemand episodes in a search find.

Extending that the same applies to playing recordings. OnDemand episodes are listed right there with your DVR'd episodes, which is nice. Compared to the FiOS garbage I left to come to X1 it's night and day. Looking at demos of the TiVo interface on YouTube it strikes me as being very menu oriented. (We do use Amazon and Netflix more often than OnDemand so that's not a deal killer considering we'd gain integration of those two.)

The only real issues I have with the X1 hardware, aside from the monthly rental fees, is that the box is sluggish at times and occasionally freezes. While I'd love to have the skip feature, I'm not sure how many shows we watch would be affected.


----------



## ThreeSoFar'sBro

JohnCap523 said:


> And the best deal on Bolt is through BestBuy which is only 15 days for returns.


What "best deal" are you referring to at Best Buy?


----------



## JohnCap523

ThreeSoFar'sBro said:


> What "best deal" are you referring to at Best Buy?


Minis are $99 if purchased with a Bolt. Online only since it doesn't look like stores are carrying anything but Roamio OTA.


----------



## Robbo1

See this post --- http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=534593 for the current best Bolt deal (15% off MSRP), but it expires at midnight on 11/29.


----------



## ThreeSoFar'sBro

JohnCap523 said:


> Minis are $99 if purchased with a Bolt. Online only since it doesn't look like stores are carrying anything but Roamio OTA.


I don't see the deal you're speaking of...and my local BB has the Bolt in stock.


----------



## JohnCap523

ThreeSoFar'sBro said:


> I don't see the deal you're speaking of...and my local BB has the Bolt in stock.


Looks like _the $99 Minis if purchased with a Bolt_ ended last night. I had it in my shopping cart and didn't pull the trigger and now it's showing at $119.99/ea even with the Bolt in the cart. Going to the Mini page the deal isn't there anymore.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi

JohnCap523 said:


> Two things I especially like about the X1 DVR is searching is uber simple because all you do is start typing a title, no menus to navigate at all. And the search includes scheduled TV, DVR's material and OnDemand. Now I realize TiVo includes streaming titles but I don't believe it includes integrating Comcast OnDemand episodes in a search find.
> 
> Extending that the same applies to playing recordings. OnDemand episodes are listed right there with your DVR'd episodes, which is nice. Compared to the FiOS garbage I left to come to X1 it's night and day. Looking at demos of the TiVo interface on YouTube it strikes me as being very menu oriented. (We do use Amazon and Netflix more often than OnDemand so that's not a deal killer considering we'd gain integration of those two.)
> 
> The only real issues I have with the X1 hardware, aside from the monthly rental fees, is that the box is sluggish at times and occasionally freezes. While I'd love to have the skip feature, I'm not sure how many shows we watch would be affected.


The search function in TVo extends to Comcast on Demand PPV movies, i.e. it searches the entire library. And TiVo places any movies you want to watch from Comcast On Demand into your My Shows folder as well as those from Hulu, Netflix, Amazon, etc.


----------



## JohnCap523

PSU_Sudzi said:


> The search function in TVo extends to Comcast on Demand PPV movies, i.e. it searches the entire library. And TiVo places any movies you want to watch from Comcast On Demand into your My Shows folder as well as those from Hulu, Netflix, Amazon, etc.


So, you're telling me if I search for Goldbergs it'll show me all coming episodes in the TV schedule, recorded on the TiVo, available OnDemand, and at Netflix and Amazon, all in the same response?


----------



## JohnCap523

ThreeSoFar'sBro said:


> I don't see the deal you're speaking of...and my local BB has the Bolt in stock.


BTW, my BestBuy told me Tivo is no longer in the home theater section and everything they had was in Home Automation, where all I found was a single Roamio OTA and no empty slots for any other items. And it's a pretty big and busy store.


----------



## smark

JohnCap523 said:


> So, you're telling me if I search for Goldbergs it'll show me all coming episodes in the TV schedule, recorded on the TiVo, available OnDemand, and at Netflix and Amazon, all in the same response?


Yes. As well as Vudu and Hulu (when Hulu arrives on the Bolt).


----------



## krkaufman

JohnCap523 said:


> And the best deal on Bolt is through BestBuy which is only 15 days for returns.


Normally that would be true, for regular folk (those not at Elite or better Best Buy Reward Zone status); however, you're currently in the *holiday shopping extended return window for Best Buy*.

See here, also: http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10714311#post10714311


----------



## PSU_Sudzi

JohnCap523 said:


> So, you're telling me if I search for Goldbergs it'll show me all coming episodes in the TV schedule, recorded on the TiVo, available OnDemand, and at Netflix and Amazon, all in the same response?


Yes. As long as you have those all checked on your list of video providers. For example, I only include Netflix, Comcast On Demand, and Amazon Prime as my video providers because I don't use any others. So I won't see anything available to buy from Amazon or Vudu or part of a Hulu subscription.

In my list of shows you can see Man in High Castle from Amazon as well as Jessica Jones and Longmire from Netflix next to recorded content. And a search of Goldbergs came up with second pic.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi

For some reason only one attachment stuck.


----------



## krkaufman

JohnCap523 said:


> *I thought I was crystal clear with him about TVs I would not be connecting Minis to*, but after going round and round with three techs today on the question, it's clear I overestimated his knowledge and understanding of the question.


You'll need whatever hardware Comcast requires to deliver the service you request, from a DVR to a digital set-top to a DTA. Those TVs will not require any additional _TiVo_ hardware.

This seems a question for Comcast, then, not TiVo, so I'm not sure why there's any expectation that a TiVo CSR would be able to answer a question that requires Comcast expertise.


----------



## gigaguy

Back to Bolt v Roamio, with the great deal Tivo is offering me on Roamio Pro All In and with Quickmode and Skip coming to Roamios, and me not being a streamer or 4ker, I see no need for current Bolt?


----------



## aaronwt

JohnCap523 said:


> BTW, my BestBuy told me Tivo is no longer in the home theater section and everything they had was in Home Automation, where all I found was a single Roamio OTA and no empty slots for any other items. And it's a pretty big and busy store.


Just the opposite at the closest BestBuy to me. The Magnolia section was the only place they had the 500GB and 1TB Bolts.


----------



## atmuscarella

gigaguy said:


> Back to Bolt v Roamio, with the great deal Tivo is offering me on Roamio Pro All In and with Quickmode and Skip coming to Roamios, and me not being a streamer or 4ker, I see no need for current Bolt?


It doesn't take very high level math abilities to know that a Roamio with lifetime at $400 or a Roamio Pro with lifetime at $600 are both better deals financially than a Bolt with one year service at $300. If someone thinks the Bolt is worth enough more than a Roamio or Roamio Pro to justify buying the Bolt is a personal decision. Being OTA if I needed to buy a DVR today I personally would take the Roamio, but I certainly can understand someone else going with the Bolt. For those on cable I think it is a little harder taking a Bolt over a Roamio Pro. My bottom line is the Roamios and Bolt are both very good to excellent DVRs so either will be a good buy.


----------



## JohnCap523

krkaufman said:


> You'll need whatever hardware Comcast requires to deliver the service you request, from a DVR to a digital set-top to a DTA. Those TVs will not require any additional _TiVo_ hardware.
> 
> This seems a question for Comcast, then, not TiVo, so I'm not sure why there's any expectation that a TiVo CSR would be able to answer a question that requires Comcast expertise.


Because the initial contact was a "_*how does my house get configured using TiVo*_" question, which included, how do I connect TVs that do NOT need access to the DVR. Sure seems like a TiVo question to me when coming from ground zero in TiVoland and wanting the big picture on how everything in my house would be connected should I move to TiVo. The answer could have been, *any TV on the cable will need a Mini* for all I knew.

AND, the answer I got was, sit down, that the TiVo would establish a MoCA network which would enable full access on TVs connected directly to coax. THAT is the answer that stuck with me for a few days that I had to challenge and have since discovered to be incorrect. And he was VERY VERY clear on that point. In hindsight he must've simply misunderstood that those extra TVs would NOT be connected to Minis.

Whatever, I'm past that. I just need convincing that the work I know it's going to take to configure this is going to be worth the differences from X1 to TiVo. The closer I look (without the opportunity for hands on, the more similar the X1 platform seems to be to TiVo except for the menu-centric TiVo versus to direct access interface on the X1.


----------



## JohnCap523

atmuscarella said:


> It doesn't take very high level math abilities to know that a Roamio with lifetime at $400 or a Roamio Pro with lifetime at $600 are both better deals financially than a Bolt with one year service at $300. If someone thinks the Bolt is worth enough more than a Roamio or Roamio Pro to justify buying the Bolt is a personal decision. Being OTA if I needed to buy a DVR today I personally would take the Roamio, but I certainly can understand someone else going with the Bolt. For those on cable I think it is a little harder taking a Bolt over a Roamio Pro. My bottom line is the Roamios and Bolt are both very good to excellent DVRs so either will be a good buy.


Yes but the issues for me are that as a newb I don't have an option for a new Roamio with lifetime at a decent price. My options are used units vs a new Bolt. A 4-tuner Roamio bundled with a Mini and lifetime for $400ish is an enticing deal except it's used and a downgrade to 4 tuners from my X1 with 6 tuners and compared to a Bolt.

And my math abilities are very attuned to the opportunities at hand.


----------



## JohnCap523

Not to belabor my questions, but I think a lot.... Is that good?

If I were to get multiple TiVos which it seems many of you have, do the recordings integrate across the network into one list or do you have to separately access each TiVo to playback recordings?


----------



## atmuscarella

JohnCap523 said:


> Yes but the issues for me are that as a newb I don't have an option for a new Roamio with lifetime at a decent price. My options are used units vs a new Bolt. A 4-tuner Roamio bundled with a Mini and lifetime for $400ish is an enticing deal except it's used and a downgrade to 4 tuners from my X1 with 6 tuners and compared to a Bolt.
> 
> And my math abilities are very attuned to the opportunities at hand.


Without the lifetime deals I personally find the Roamios pricing unacceptable. If your X1 setup is working now, you could always wait to see what TiVo release next summer to replace the Roamio Pro. It will not be cheap at release but it might be a better replacement for your X1 system than a Bolt.



JohnCap523 said:


> Not to belabor my questions, but I think a lot.... Is that good?
> 
> If I were to get multiple TiVos which it seems many of you have, do the recordings integrate across the network into one list or do you have to separately access each TiVo to playback recordings?


You can access any Roamio/Bolt recordings with any other Roamio/Bolt or mini on the same TiVo account and the same local network but you will have separate lists for each DVR.


----------



## JohnCap523

atmuscarella said:


> Without the lifetime deals I personally find the Roamios pricing unacceptable. If your X1 setup is working now, you could always wait to see what TiVo release next summer to replace the Roamio Pro. It will not be cheap at release but it might be a better replacement for your X1 system than a Bolt.


I had read some other posts about some clearance deals perhaps by Christmas and also some higher horsepower Bolts in the Spring or Summer.



atmuscarella said:


> You can access any Roamio/Bolt recordings with any other Roamio/Bolt or mini on the same TiVo account and the same local network but you will have separate lists for each DVR.


So without getting into all the technical, I have a tech deficient wife who anything other than straight forward right here, is simply untenable. How do you distinguish between DVRs from say your primary TV? Is there a DVR menu to pick which recordings list to view? I'm thinking, if I went with a 4-tuner Roamio I could bolster it a while later with either another 4-tuner or a 6-tuner and never have to manipulate my recording schedule. As it is with the 6-tuner X1 box I still have to manually intervene because everything runs a minute late requiring me to extend every recording, which of course makes for conflicts due to that extra minute. One of the X1 weaknesses I've discovered is it doesn't notify you of recording conflicts. It simply doesn't record the lowest priority series (I guess in TiVo-ese that's a onestep?) Even my FiOS old school DVR notified me of those conflicts. Ah well, I guess they need time to sort things out....


----------



## JohnCap523

atmuscarella said:


> Without the lifetime deals I personally find the Roamios pricing unacceptable. If your X1 setup is working now....


BTW, happy primary season. You know, Rochester has two seasons, Winter and the 4th of July....

My son went to RIT and lives in Gates now.


----------



## atmuscarella

JohnCap523 said:


> So without getting into all the technical, I have a tech deficient wife who anything other than straight forward right here, is simply untenable. How do you distinguish between DVRs from say your primary TV? Is there a DVR menu to pick which recordings list to view?


TiVo DVRs have a "MY Shows" folder where you access all your recorded shows, any other TiVo DVRs on the same account & local network are listed at the bottom of the list of shows in that folder, if you click on another DVR it movies you into that DVRs list of shows.



JohnCap523 said:


> I'm thinking, if I went with a 4-tuner Roamio I could bolster it a while later with either another 4-tuner or a 6-tuner and never have to manipulate my recording schedule. As it is with the 6-tuner X1 box I still have to manually intervene because everything runs a minute late requiring me to extend every recording, which of course makes for conflicts due to that extra minute. One of the X1 weaknesses I've discovered is it doesn't notify you of recording conflicts. It simply doesn't record the lowest priority series (I guess in TiVo-ese that's a onestep?) Even my FiOS old school DVR notified me of those conflicts. Ah well, I guess they need time to sort things out....


Yes needing to pad shows does result in needing more tuners. I am not sure if TiVo actually notifies you if a show isn't going to record due to conflicts there is a place in the menus where you can check to see if there will be any conflicts but I haven't had one in so long not sure if there is any auto notification/pop up type notice.

So far been pretty happy with Rochester's weather this fall almost no snow yet and warmer than normal. Last year was a real bear of a winter record snow fall for several months and our February set an all time record for the coldest month ever recorded in Rochester.


----------



## JohnCap523

atmuscarella said:


> So far been pretty happy with Rochester's weather this fall almost no snow yet and warmer than normal. Last year was a real bear of a winter record snow fall for several months and our February set an all time record for the coldest month ever recorded in Rochester.


My son was just down for Thanksgiving and he said it snowed a couple times last week before he came home. I guess a few inches doesn't faze you guys... Down here a few inches wipes out all the bread, milk, and eggs in every supermarket... Except Wegmans.


----------



## JohnCap523

atmuscarella said:


> TiVo DVRs have a "MY Shows" folder where you access all your recorded shows, any other TiVo DVRs on the same account & local network are listed at the bottom of the list of shows in that folder, if you click on another DVR it movies you into that DVRs list of shows.


So this brings up another question. Does the service fee cover all DVRs on one network or is there a service fee required for *EACH *DVR?


----------



## HarperVision

JohnCap523 said:


> Not to belabor my questions, but I think a lot.... Is that good? If I were to get multiple TiVos which it seems many of you have, do the recordings integrate across the network into one list or do you have to separately access each TiVo to playback recordings?





atmuscarella said:


> Without the lifetime deals I personally find the Roamios pricing unacceptable. If your X1 setup is working now, you could always wait to see what TiVo release next summer to replace the Roamio Pro. It will not be cheap at release but it might be a better replacement for your X1 system than a Bolt. You can access any Roamio/Bolt recordings with any other Roamio/Bolt or mini on the same TiVo account and the same local network but you will have separate lists for each DVR.


Just to clarify, if you have minis at the other tv locations then they will all have the same recordings list. It is only if you have more than one actual full fledged DVR that they get separated by DVR.



JohnCap523 said:


> So this brings up another question. Does the service fee cover all DVRs on one network or is there a service fee required for EACH DVR?


Each full DVR needs a service, be it monthly, annual or lifetime. Minis bought now all come with lifetime.


----------



## atmuscarella

JohnCap523 said:


> My son was just down for Thanksgiving and he said it snowed a couple times last week before he came home. I guess a few inches doesn't faze you guys... Down here a few inches wipes out all the bread, milk, and eggs in every supermarket... Except Wegmans.


Ya I don't even pay attention until they start talking about more than 6 inches in one day. Yes gotta love Wegmans 



JohnCap523 said:


> So this brings up another question. Does the service fee cover all DVRs on one network or is there a service fee required for *EACH *DVR?


Each DVR has to have Service, monthly, annual, or lifetime. Each mini also has to have service but they are all sold with lifetime service built in now. The Bolt comes with one year service built in but if you had 2 Bolts at the end one year you would have to buy service for each of them separately.


----------



## lordrainkm

JohnCap523 said:


> BTW, happy primary season. You know, Rochester has two seasons, Winter and the 4th of July....
> 
> My son went to RIT and lives in Gates now.


I went to RIT. The way I remember, there were still 4 seasons: almost winter, winter, still winter and construction


----------



## greg0422

I'm trying to decide between the 1TB Bolt and the 3TB Roamio Pro.

- Price isn't a huge issue. Saving a couple dollars a day isn't worth sacrificing functionality to me, so whatever I like the most is what I'll buy.

-I don't have a 4K TV nor do I plan on buying one any time soon, so the 4K capability of Bolt is not a selling point for me.

- I'm upgrading from TiVo Premiere XL (1TB) with just 2 simultaneous recording channels so 4 would seem like plenty to record simultaneously. However, I'm already often low on space with the 1TB storage so this makes me hesitate on the Bolt. Of course I could easily add an external SATA drive I suppose and negate this.

-Quickmode sounds like something I would use. I already speed through some sections of shows using fast forward.

-Skipmode might be useful, but apparently only some channels have it. What percentage? This feature sounds great but I wouldn't make a buying decision on it.

-Speed of the Bolt is supposed to be much superior. I guess I find the processor speed of my Premier XL to be irritating once each month or so. It's not something that bothers me much - I don't use the apps at all because I have other devices for that.

I think the Roamio wins here just based on the core function of recording and storing more shows. However if I add an external storage drive to the Bolt then this fixes the biggest downside of the Bolt for me. It is nice *not* to need to buy another drive for the Bolt when it is already more expensive.

I think the best decision at this time, especially considering I don't watch 4K TV, is to go with the Roamio and get a Bolt later when they can record more channels and have more drive space installed.


----------



## Robbo1

greg0422 said:


> I think the Roamio wins here just based on the core function of recording and storing more shows.


If you choose to go with the Bolt, you can buy the 500GB model and do an easy 15 minute do-it-yourself upgrade with an internal $95 2TB drive ( http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Seaga...F8&qid=1450705212&sr=8-1&keywords=ST2000LM003 ). External SAT A drive availability is apparently questionable at this point.


----------



## GoodSpike

There's a comment on the first page of this thread that implies the Bolt's wifi is better, and I've seen complaints about the Roamio's wifi elsewhere. Is it generally accepted that the Roamio has poor wifi?


----------



## JohnCap523

In my case the most irritable aspect of the Xfinity X1 hardware is lag and momentary freezes. I'm not sure if it's inefficient software or slow hardware but I'm reading that the Pace box I have shares lineage with the Roamio so to me the Bolt is the way to go except for the 4 recording limitation. BTW, it's not just limited to recording 4 channels simultaneously, like the X1 the Minis use tuners in the primary so if you distribute to other TVs and have say two people watching in other rooms, that limits the primary to 2 tuners. I don't know if that is in addition to a live channel being watched or if that counts as one.


----------



## aaronwt

JohnCap523 said:


> In my case the most irritable aspect of the Xfinity X1 hardware is lag and momentary freezes. I'm not sure if it's inefficient software or slow hardware but I'm reading that the Pace box I have shares lineage with the Roamio so to me the Bolt is the way to go except for the 4 recording limitation. BTW, it's not just limited to recording 4 channels simultaneously, like the X1 the Minis use tuners in the primary so if you distribute to other TVs and have say two people watching in other rooms, that limits the primary to 2 tuners. I don't know if that is in addition to a live channel being watched or if that counts as one.


With my parents X1, the client boxes have their own tuner. So when watching live TV it uses its own tuner. And also no buffer on it either. They have four of the client boxes. They all use their own tuner and never the tuners of the main x1. How do you get client boxes to use the X1 tuners? I hate the things my parents have since there isn't a buffer unless watching live tv from the main x1. Of course at home I would never watch TV that way, but it's a different story when I visit my parents.


----------



## JohnCap523

aaronwt said:


> With my parents X1, the client boxes have their own tuner. So when watching live TV it uses its own tuner. And also no buffer on it either. They have four of the client boxes. They all use their own tuner and never the tuners of the main x1. How do you get client boxes to use the X1 tuners? I hate the things my parents have since there isn't a buffer unless watching live tv from the main x1. Of course at home I would never watch TV that way, but it's a different story when I visit my parents.


If they have the small secondary boxes, similar to Minis, those use tuners from the DVR like Minis do.

This is the secondary, client, multi room, whatever you want to call it, box I have: http://www.multichannel.com/news/technology/comcast-starts-deploy-all-ip-boxes-x1/385122

I have the Pace XG1 and Xi3 non DVR, or as it's labeled, the Pace PX032: http://customer.xfinity.com/help-and-support/cable-tv/x1-hub-vs-companion-box/


----------



## greg0422

We ended up purchasing a Roamio Pro based on the cheap lifetime service offer, but I didn't do quite enough research.

If you purchase the Roamio by calling TiVo directly you can access an upgrade offer that costs $600 for a Roamio Pro with lifetime service. Essentially the service is about $100-$150 depending on what you set the cost of the DVR to be. The 3000 hour DVR cost is $450 with Amazon Prime, or $475 from Best Buy.

My mistake was first buying a Roamio Pro from Amazon for $450, then trying to get the service plan. Oops.. you get 1 year of service for free this way but there is no cheap lifetime service plan. You have the option to take the 1 year free or pay $600 for lifetime service on top of what you paid for the DVR. Or, (what I'm doing) you can return the DVR to Amazon and buy it through TiVo and get the same lifetime service offer for $600 that comes with a free 3000 hour Roamio Pro. There are also cheaper options if you don't want the 3000 hour model.

Anyhow.. long story short, if you get a Roamio, get it from TiVo, not Amazon or Best Buy. You will get 1 year of free TiVo service from a 3rd party, but after that you pay ($15/mo?) which means the $125 savings at Best Buy is gone in 8 more months (1 year, 8 months total).

Oh by the way, the representative told me that the Roamio comes with quickmode and skipmode will be available soon via a software update (maybe vice versa).


----------



## JohnCap523

greg0422 said:


> We ended up purchasing a Roamio Pro based on the cheap lifetime service offer, but I didn't do quite enough research.
> 
> If you purchase the Roamio by calling TiVo directly you can access an upgrade offer that costs $600 for a Roamio Pro with lifetime service. Essentially the service is about $100-$150 depending on what you set the cost of the DVR to be. The 3000 hour DVR cost is $450 with Amazon Prime, or $475 from Best Buy.
> 
> My mistake was first buying a Roamio Pro from Amazon for $450, then trying to get the service plan. Oops.. you get 1 year of service for free this way but there is no cheap lifetime service plan. You have the option to take the 1 year free or pay $600 for lifetime service on top of what you paid for the DVR. Or, (what I'm doing) you can return the DVR to Amazon and buy it through TiVo and get the same lifetime service offer for $600 that comes with a free 3000 hour Roamio Pro. There are also cheaper options if you don't want the 3000 hour model.
> 
> Anyhow.. long story short, if you get a Roamio, get it from TiVo, not Amazon or Best Buy. You will get 1 year of free TiVo service from a 3rd party, but after that you pay ($15/mo?) which means the $125 savings at Best Buy is gone in 8 more months (1 year, 8 months total).
> 
> Oh by the way, the representative told me that the Roamio comes with quickmode and skipmode will be available soon via a software update (maybe vice versa).


The Roamio Pro offer on TiVo's website is $600 including only one year of service.


----------



## atmuscarella

JohnCap523 said:


> The Roamio Pro offer on TiVo's website is $600 including only one year of service.


You have to call to find out if you qualify for the $600 with lifetime deal. The last I new anyone who currently owned a TiVo qualified. This deal is an unpublished special offer.


----------



## aaronwt

JohnCap523 said:


> If they have the small secondary boxes, similar to Minis, those use tuners from the DVR like Minis do.
> 
> This is the secondary, client, multi room, whatever you want to call it, box I have: http://www.multichannel.com/news/technology/comcast-starts-deploy-all-ip-boxes-x1/385122
> 
> I have the Pace XG1 and Xi3 non DVR, or as it's labeled, the xPace PX032: http://customer.xfinity.com/help-and-support/cable-tv/x1-hub-vs-companion-box/


That's just it. The client boxes used here do not use a tuner from the main X1 DVR. A Coworker also on Comcast in my area says his client boxes are the same way. No buffer and it uses the client boxes local tuner for live tV, not the X1 tuners.


----------



## jonw747

JohnCap523 said:


> In my case the most irritable aspect of the Xfinity X1 hardware is lag and momentary freezes. I'm not sure if it's inefficient software or slow hardware but I'm reading that the Pace box I have shares lineage with the Roamio so to me the Bolt is the way to go except for the 4 recording limitation. BTW, it's not just limited to recording 4 channels simultaneously, like the X1 the Minis use tuners in the primary so if you distribute to other TVs and have say two people watching in other rooms, that limits the primary to 2 tuners. I don't know if that is in addition to a live channel being watched or if that counts as one.


Companies have a tendency to stuff their DVRs full of features until they crumble under the weight.

The Roamio Plus and Minis have been very responsive. There are two areas of concern. One affects all TiVo units and it's when their servers cannot keep up with requests (or go down completely). The other is the speed of the AddOn Apps. They don't launch super fast, and navigation is a bit slow.

But personally, I tend to find stuff with search, and once I've found it ... waiting 10 seconds to launch Netflix (or whatever) isn't a big deal. In other words, the killer feature is the universal search capability which finds content across all the Apps and this works seamlessly and very quickly. One Pass also helps here as well, because there's no delay to look at the shows you've setup to watch, just when you click one to start viewing.

More speed is always welcome, but not so much when it comes with a much higher price and less features.


----------



## JohnCap523

atmuscarella said:


> You have to call to find out if you qualify for the $600 with lifetime deal. The last I new anyone who currently owned a TiVo qualified. This deal is an unpublished special offer.


Ah, well, I'm a virgin.


----------



## spartus4

I recently got a Bolt to replace my Roamio. The Blot is so riddled with software bugs that I am considering taking it back and going back to my Roamio. Right now I would not recommend the Bolt to anyone.


----------



## atmuscarella

spartus4 said:


> I recently got a Bolt to replace my Roamio. The Blot is so riddled with software bugs that I am considering taking it back and going back to my Roamio. Right now I would not recommend the Bolt to anyone.


Since the very recent 20.5.6RC18 update many issues have been resolved (not all like with Plex). I am OTA only and don't have an UHD TV but I don't think my Bolt has any more issues than my Roamio at this time (which means they are both working very well).

Not sure what your issues are but it you have the recent update and still have issues I would list them here and see if people can help you. I would also talk to TiVo support just to make sure you don't have a defective unit.


----------



## GoodSpike

spartus4 said:


> I recently got a Bolt to replace my Roamio. The Blot is so riddled with software bugs that I am considering taking it back and going back to my Roamio. Right now I would not recommend the Bolt to anyone.


Except for the red screen on Amazon and Netflix, which lasted for less than 10 minutes, I've yet to experience a single bug on the Tivo. I am though only about 2-3 weeks in.


----------



## epstewart

GoodSpike said:


> Except for the red screen on Amazon and Netflix, which lasted for less than 10 minutes, I've yet to experience a single bug on the Tivo. I am though only about 2-3 weeks in.


I'm about 2 months into having a Bolt. I like it a lot, but there are still bugs in it. One bug has to do with problems using the streaming app Plex, as per this thread:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=534975

These Plex problems don't show up on my Roamio Plus. That said, the Roamio's Plex app does not stream videos in their full HD resolution, while the Bolt app (when it's working) does. I assume the Bolt Plex app will someday get fixed and will give better results than the Roamio app.


----------



## GoodSpike

epstewart said:


> I'm about 2 months into having a Bolt. I like it a lot, but there are still bugs in it. One bug has to do with problems using the streaming app Plex, as per this thread:.


So far I've only used the Netflix, Amazon and Youtube apps, although I did once click onthe Plex app and a few others.


----------



## greg0422

atmuscarella said:


> You have to call to find out if you qualify for the $600 with lifetime deal. The last I new anyone who currently owned a TiVo qualified. This deal is an unpublished special offer.


Yep, it's all pretty unclear - I suppose because it's unpublished, anywhere but this message board (that I've seen). I suppose I'm lucky to have seen it and would like to thank whoever made this public knowledge.  You only get the deal if you call in personally.

Under my account settings, active TiVo devices it says "Bundle, All-in one-time TiVo service fee" for this new TiVo. It's a little different from the other TiVos that say "TiVo Lifetime Service" but they did tell me over the phone that lifetime service was included.

I just finished unplugging and boxing up the Amazon Roamio Pro and replacing it with the one purchased directly from TiVo, pairing the new one, and setting up all my preferences again. It's a pain, but worth the $500 savings.

I did get a chance to try QuickMode on the Roamio. It's interesting but I can't say it's something I would use very often. I think SkipMode might be more useful.


----------



## theroar84

My roamio's already got quick mode. The wife dislikes it, but I love it when watching hoops. I was amazed that the 30 second skip mode works even while quick mode is on.


----------



## theroar84

Once you start building a plex library, that critter is priceless. My Samsung had a plex app, but since it appeared on TIVO, that is one less remote to grab. I was really excited to see that the Mini also had the plex app.


----------



## BNBTivo

Being that I found this thread while searching for Bolt vs Roamio comparisons, I wanted to add an update.

Tivo Roamio DOES have the commercial skip feature, just landed on mine this last week. So we have both quick mode and skip mode on the Roamio now.

I see people talking about the speed between Roamio and Bolt. I haven't used the Bolt, but the Roamio never seems "slow" - in fact I remember when it came out how it was such a massive speed improvement over Premiere. That still holds true. At no point do I really feel like the Roamio is "slow" - so I'm not sure I would even consider this in my purchase decision.

Based on what is currently for sale, it seems the major difference is 4k and the Roamio, while missing 4k, almost seems to be sold as a higher end product vs the Bolt.

That said, with $599 lifetime plus $599 for the unit, $1200 for a lifetime DVR is NUTS. What a shame. I grabbed my first Roamio Plus when it was expensive but tolerable, and picked up a second Roamio when they had that awesome deal last year. I'm not sure I would actually buy Tivo right now simply because of the pricing being so out of touch.


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## aaronwt

The price is $700 for a lifetime 500GB Bolt($800 for a 1TB Bolt). If you buy it from Weaknees.
They have some lifetime special where you can get it for only $400 when you purchase the Bolt from them.
http://www.weaknees.com/tivo-bolt-4k-series6.php


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## BNBTivo

aaronwt said:


> The price is $700 for a lifetime 500GB Bolt($800 for a 1TB Bolt). If you buy it from Weaknees.
> They have some lifetime special where you can get it for only $400 when you purchase the Bolt from them.
> http://www.weaknees.com/tivo-bolt-4k-series6.php


You have to be existing to get the $400 lifetime offer. I think $400 is already expensive, but marginally tolerable. If I were a new subscriber, I wouldn't even consider $600.

$300 for a cable box isn't cheap as it is.


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## aaronwt

BNBTivo said:


> You have to be existing to get the $400 lifetime offer. I think $400 is already expensive, but marginally tolerable. If I were a new subscriber, I wouldn't even consider $600.
> 
> $300 for a cable box isn't cheap as it is.


Much, much cheaper than paying $20 a month indefinitely from the cable company. It makes about as much sense as renting a cable modem from them and paying $8 to $10 a month indefinitely.


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## BNBTivo

aaronwt said:


> Much, much cheaper than paying $20 a month indefinitely from the cable company. It makes about as much sense as renting a cable modem from them and paying $8 to $10 a month indefinitely.


As I said, I bought when the price was marginally tolerable. 3 years to "break even" on the savings compared to cable company. Of course, that doesn't factor the much better quality/experience with Tivo, but we are talking about cost.

Comparing to the cable modem rental is going out on a limb. Modem rental is $10/mo and you can buy a cable modem for $50. That's a no brainer, 5 months. $600 for lifetime PLUS $600 for a new Roamio box. That's $1200 or 5 YEARS to break even. I realize it's a little less with a Bolt, but still. It used to be 3 years, max - now it's 5 years.

Worth it? That's up to you. "Much, much cheaper" - I'm not so sure.


----------



## aaronwt

BNBTivo said:


> As I said, I bought when the price was marginally tolerable. 3 years to "break even" on the savings compared to cable company. Of course, that doesn't factor the much better quality/experience with Tivo, but we are talking about cost.
> 
> Comparing to the cable modem rental is going out on a limb. Modem rental is $10/mo and you can buy a cable modem for $50. That's a no brainer, 5 months. $600 for lifetime PLUS $600 for a new Roamio box. That's $1200 or 5 YEARS to break even. I realize it's a little less with a Bolt, but still. It used to be 3 years, max - now it's 5 years.
> 
> Worth it? That's up to you. "Much, much cheaper" - I'm not so sure.


Even with the cable modem, most people seem to rent them instead of purchasing their own. Plus with lifetime there is a high residual value which further reduces the break even point. And then you add Minis into the equation and you save even more money.


----------



## RUBiK

Thanks everyone for the informative posts in this thread (and elsewhere).

Want to finally ditch DTV and go with FIOS + Tivo and save a bunch of money and I'm trying to decide between a new Bolt vs. Roamio Pro and I'm having a hell of a time deciding...

Cost wise, it looks like it'll be almost the same (Bolt at ~$300 + ~$100 for a 2-3TB HD so let's call it $400-420 and a Roamio Pro looks to be around $450).

I don't have a 4K TV and probably won't get one until current TV dies, so being 4K ready doesn't do anything for me.

The 6 vs. 4 tuners might come in handy (I am getting 2 Minis for other rooms) but I honestly don't know if it'll be a big issue since the 3 TVs are never on at the same time and probably won't have many concurrent recordings usually, etc. -- so that part is certainly appealing for the Roamio Pro.

Since I haven't used a new Tivo in many years (Series1/Series2 DTV units way back when!), how is the (menu/guide) speed/responsiveness of the Roamio Pro compared to the Bolt? Noticeably slower or still fast enough?

Also been reading complaints about loud fan noise for the Bolts... is it that bad? Less noticeable on the Roamio Pro?

Kind of, sort of leaning towards the Roamio Pro right now and seeing what a Bolt Pro(?) might look like if one is announced and switch then, if needed... but also weary of spending $450 initially... can I recoup a decent amount (say $300ish?) if I were to sell it a year from now (without sub, duh) or are they basically "worthless"?


----------



## BobCamp1

aaronwt said:


> Even with the cable modem, most people seem to rent them instead of purchasing their own. Plus with lifetime there is a high residual value which further reduces the break even point. And then you add Minis into the equation and you save even more money.


They rent the cable modems because the modems you buy don't work right out of the box. You have to call and provide the modem's MAC address. Plus if your cable company has a wireless gateway you'll have to buy the modem AND router separately. You have to set up the network yourself. You usually need to perform MAC cloning in your router, even though the cable company swears this isn't necessary, which causes 90% of people's eyes to glaze over.

I have helped a lot of people do this, including a friend who is also a TWC installer. And even though TWC provides step-by-step instructions people still struggle with it.


----------



## BNBTivo

BobCamp1 said:


> They rent the cable modems because the modems you buy don't work right out of the box. You have to call and provide the modem's MAC address. Plus if your cable company has a wireless gateway you'll have to buy the modem AND router separately. You have to set up the network yourself. You usually need to perform MAC cloning in your router, even though the cable company swears this isn't necessary, which causes 90% of people's eyes to glaze over.
> 
> I have helped a lot of people do this, including a friend who is also a TWC installer. And even though TWC provides step-by-step instructions people still struggle with it.


A pretty basic home router is $20 and probably adequate for your typical home user. I have never once had to do anything other than call Comcast and read the MAC on the bottom of the modem. They say "Thank you" and my internet works. I plug in the router and set a user/pass and I'm done. It's hardly complicated or difficult, and I've never had to do "MAC cloning" or anything of the sort.


----------



## BNBTivo

RUBiK said:


> Thanks everyone for the informative posts in this thread (and elsewhere).
> 
> Want to finally ditch DTV and go with FIOS + Tivo and save a bunch of money and I'm trying to decide between a new Bolt vs. Roamio Pro and I'm having a hell of a time deciding...
> 
> Cost wise, it looks like it'll be almost the same (Bolt at ~$300 + ~$100 for a 2-3TB HD so let's call it $400-420 and a Roamio Pro looks to be around $450).
> 
> I don't have a 4K TV and probably won't get one until current TV dies, so being 4K ready doesn't do anything for me.
> 
> The 6 vs. 4 tuners might come in handy (I am getting 2 Minis for other rooms) but I honestly don't know if it'll be a big issue since the 3 TVs are never on at the same time and probably won't have many concurrent recordings usually, etc. -- so that part is certainly appealing for the Roamio Pro.
> 
> Since I haven't used a new Tivo in many years (Series1/Series2 DTV units way back when!), how is the (menu/guide) speed/responsiveness of the Roamio Pro compared to the Bolt? Noticeably slower or still fast enough?
> 
> Also been reading complaints about loud fan noise for the Bolts... is it that bad? Less noticeable on the Roamio Pro?
> 
> Kind of, sort of leaning towards the Roamio Pro right now and seeing what a Bolt Pro(?) might look like if one is announced and switch then, if needed... but also weary of spending $450 initially... can I recoup a decent amount (say $300ish?) if I were to sell it a year from now (without sub, duh) or are they basically "worthless"?


I would definitely factor in the quality of the experience, also. Tivo's are VERY fast now. They work incredibly well and the interface is outstanding.

If you count the mini's, then it'll definitely save you money in the long run. Mini's have lifetime service out of the box, and if you pay annually, it's $12.50/mo. Figure out what the cost would be for 3 quality DVR's from your cable company and do the math to see when it breaks even.

I think Tivo is a no-brainer. The lifetime isn't the bargain it used to be, but even if you pay the monthly or annual cost, it's cheaper than the cable companies DVR and the experience is just so much better.

I like that I no longer have equipment fees. My bill is a fraction of what my friends pay. They really get you on all the upcharges.


----------



## aaronwt

BobCamp1 said:


> They rent the cable modems because the modems you buy don't work right out of the box. You have to call and provide the modem's MAC address. Plus if your cable company has a wireless gateway you'll have to buy the modem AND router separately. You have to set up the network yourself. You usually need to perform MAC cloning in your router, even though the cable company swears this isn't necessary, which causes 90% of people's eyes to glaze over.
> 
> I have helped a lot of people do this, including a friend who is also a TWC installer. And even though TWC provides step-by-step instructions people still struggle with it.


I know with Comcast there is no need for MAC cloning. You plug the router in, call the number, give them the info and in a few minutes it's up and running. We did it on Christmas day for my Dad(xmas present) and they were pretty fast considering it was a major holiday.


----------



## RUBiK

BNBTivo said:


> I would definitely factor in the quality of the experience, also. Tivo's are VERY fast now. They work incredibly well and the interface is outstanding.
> 
> If you count the mini's, then it'll definitely save you money in the long run. Mini's have lifetime service out of the box, and if you pay annually, it's $12.50/mo. Figure out what the cost would be for 3 quality DVR's from your cable company and do the math to see when it breaks even.
> 
> I think Tivo is a no-brainer. The lifetime isn't the bargain it used to be, but even if you pay the monthly or annual cost, it's cheaper than the cable companies DVR and the experience is just so much better.
> 
> I like that I no longer have equipment fees. My bill is a fraction of what my friends pay. They really get you on all the upcharges.


Thanks for all that.

Yeah, I'm definitely getting two Minis and either 1 Bolt or 1 Roamio (this second part is what I'm having trouble deciding still.. hah!)

I will be ditching DTV (their hardware/services fees have gotten insane over the past few years) and I have definitely decided (took me about 10 seconds of doing simple math) to not even bother with the Verizon FIOS DVRs + fees involved.

I am OK with the upfront cost of the 2 Minis (with lifetime included as they all are these days, right?) plus a Bolt or Roamio (with 1 year included, after which I will either pay for yearly sub or try to find some better deal on lifetime, etc.)

Just gotta figure out if I want a) Bolt 500GB + replacement 2-3TB drive or b) Roamio Pro... I keep going back and forth trying to decide.


----------



## BobCamp1

aaronwt said:


> I know with Comcast there is no need for MAC cloning. You plug the router in, call the number, give them the info and in a few minutes it's up and running. We did it on Christmas day for my Dad(xmas present) and they were pretty fast considering it was a major holiday.


Yes but you did it for your Dad, so that doesn't count. It actually proves my point. What counts is if Dad would want to do it all by himself, and if he actually succeeded.

We think it's trivial, but remember we're all geeks in this forum. Most other people are intimidated doing this. When they hear the work "MAC address" their eyes will glaze over, and then they'll ask who Mac is and where he lives, and why the cable company needs to know that.


----------



## BobCamp1

RUBiK said:


> Thanks for all that.
> 
> Yeah, I'm definitely getting two Minis and either 1 Bolt or 1 Roamio (this second part is what I'm having trouble deciding still.. hah!)
> 
> I will be ditching DTV (their hardware/services fees have gotten insane over the past few years) and I have definitely decided (took me about 10 seconds of doing simple math) to not even bother with the Verizon FIOS DVRs + fees involved.
> 
> I am OK with the upfront cost of the 2 Minis (with lifetime included as they all are these days, right?) plus a Bolt or Roamio (with 1 year included, after which I will either pay for yearly sub or try to find some better deal on lifetime, etc.)
> 
> Just gotta figure out if I want a) Bolt 500GB + replacement 2-3TB drive or b) Roamio Pro... I keep going back and forth trying to decide.


Well many people (including Weakness) are having problems using a Bolt past 2 TB unless they come up with creative wiring to support a 3.5" drive. So if you want capacity and a clean-looking setup get the Roamio or wait for the "Bolt Pro".


----------



## RUBiK

BobCamp1 said:


> Well many people (including Weakness) are having problems using a Bolt past 2 TB unless they come up with creative wiring to support a 3.5" drive. So if you want capacity and a clean-looking setup get the Roamio or wait for the "Bolt Pro".


Good point, thanks.

Yeah, I read about people using that 3TB Seagate 2.5" drive (ripped out of the external enclosure it comes in), but I know some were having problems in that other thread on here...

Will probably end up going with the Roamio Pro and might have to sell it (and switch to Bolt/Bolt Pro) in a year or so. Hopefully it still has some value at that point (even without lifetime sub) and I can recoup some money.


----------



## JTHOJNICKI

I've got a Bolt with one year of free, included TiVo service & a Roamio Pro with lifetime TiVo service. I love them both. (I don't care about 4K and the Roamio now has Skipmode & Quickmode.) Performance & response is similar between the two.

The Roamio is a better deal if you can get a Roamio Pro with lifetime TiVo service direct from TiVo for $599. I was able to get the deal after I bought & activated the Bolt and 2 Minis.

I bought the 500GB Bolt on sale at Fry's for $211. When the year of free service is ready to expire on the Bolt, I will see what units (Roamio Pro with lifetime?, Bolt Pro?) and service deals are available from TiVo before I buy a $599 lifetime plan for it. I have a total of 6 Minis as well. By migrating from Dish to TiVo plus Comcast; I'm saving over $100/ month.

Upgrading the Bolt hard drive to 3TB is very simple; watch the Intellibeam video on YouTube if interested.


----------



## BNBTivo

BobCamp1 said:


> Yes but you did it for your Dad, so that doesn't count. It actually proves my point. What counts is if Dad would want to do it all by himself, and if he actually succeeded.
> 
> We think it's trivial, but remember we're all geeks in this forum. Most other people are intimidated doing this. When they hear the work "MAC address" their eyes will glaze over, and then they'll ask who Mac is and where he lives, and why the cable company needs to know that.


I just can't agree with this. I worked technical support for Gateway back in the day. People were even more computer retarded than they are now.

For the modem, the call would go something like "Sir, look at the bottom of the modem where it says MAC address" "Found it, great." "Can you read that off for me?" "Your internet works now, thank you"

I mean, I realize some people are not that bright with electronics, but you are stretching a bit here. I'm sure his father knows how to identify the alphabet.


----------



## RUBiK

JTHOJNICKI said:


> I've got a Bolt with one year of free, included TiVo service & a Roamio Pro with lifetime TiVo service. I love them both. (I don't care about 4K and the Roamio now has Skipmode & Quickmode.) Performance & response is similar between the two.
> 
> The Roamio is a better deal if you can get a Roamio Pro with lifetime TiVo service direct from TiVo for $599. I was able to get the deal after I bought & activated the Bolt and 2 Minis.


Thanks for that. Great to hear that performance and response is similar between the two!

Any noise issues with the Bolt (compared to the Roamio)? Does the fan really whine as loud as others have reported or does it just "blend in" with the other A/V equipment as one would expect?

Now after reading your post, getting the Bolt first (with 2 Minis and wait-and-see if a better deal or newer model comes up) doesn't seem like such a bad idea either.

I watched the Bolt drive replacement video and it doesn't look too bad. I'll google around to see if those Toshiba 3TB drives are more readily available these days (and compare to the Seagate 3TB that I read other people have used).


----------



## aaronwt

BobCamp1 said:


> Yes but you did it for your Dad, so that doesn't count. It actually proves my point. What counts is if Dad would want to do it all by himself, and if he actually succeeded.
> 
> We think it's trivial, but remember we're all geeks in this forum. Most other people are intimidated doing this. When they hear the work "MAC address" their eyes will glaze over, and then they'll ask who Mac is and where he lives, and why the cable company needs to know that.


My Dad and GF knows what the MAC address is. My Mom though would have no idea. But the instructions they have are very specific and easy. If someone can read they can do it.


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## Laughs Brightly

JTHOJNICKI said:


> I bought the 500GB Bolt on sale at Fry's for $211. When the year of free service is ready to expire on the Bolt, I will see what units (Roamio Pro with lifetime?, Bolt Pro?) and service deals are available from TiVo before I buy a $599 lifetime plan for it. I have a total of 6 Minis as well. By migrating from Dish to TiVo plus Comcast; I'm saving over $100/ month.


$200 of lifetime on Bolt: http://www.wkblog.com/tivo/2016/02/weaknees-tivo-bolts-get-200-discount-on-all-in-service/


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## BobCamp1

aaronwt said:


> My Dad and GF knows what the MAC address is. My Mom though would have no idea. But the instructions they have are very specific and easy. If someone can read they can do it.


I used to think that, but unfortunately that's simply not always the case. I don't know how TWC's instructions could be any clearer, and yet I know two different people who still couldn't do it. Neither of them knew what a cable modem was or could even locate it in their house.

My Dad followed the instructions and it still took two days and several calls to get it to work. I still have no idea how or why it started working -- it just did.

I'm done sidetracking this thread (for now anyway).


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## lessd

aaronwt said:


> I know with Comcast there is no need for MAC cloning. You plug the router in, call the number, give them the info and in a few minutes it's up and running. We did it on Christmas day for my Dad(xmas present) and they were pretty fast considering it was a major holiday.


For Comcast CT (don't know about other Comcast systems) you don't have to make any telephone calls, just plug your new modem in (this also including a modem with telephone if your getting your telephone service with Comcast) than direct connect your computer RJ45 cable to this new modem (no router at this time). Open IE and you will be asked to log into your Comcast account, than you will be asked if you want to provision the new modem, answer yes and go away from you computer for about 15 to 20 minutes, when you come back your internet and, if needed, your telephone will all be working, your all done, just connect the modem back up to your router, no MAC numbers needed.


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## mark1958

RUBiK said:


> Thanks for that. Great to hear that performance and response is similar between the two!
> 
> Any noise issues with the Bolt (compared to the Roamio)? Does the fan really whine as loud as others have reported or does it just "blend in" with the other A/V equipment as one would expect?
> 
> Now after reading your post, getting the Bolt first (with 2 Minis and wait-and-see if a better deal or newer model comes up) doesn't seem like such a bad idea either.
> 
> I watched the Bolt drive replacement video and it doesn't look too bad. I'll google around to see if those Toshiba 3TB drives are more readily available these days (and compare to the Seagate 3TB that I read other people have used).


If you are planing on using two mini's that each one take's one of your streams and the Bolt only has 4, were the pro's have 6 so if you hook up your mini's to a pro you will still have 4 available on the pro and only 2 on the Bolt just a thought


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## RUBiK

mark1958 said:


> If you are planing on using two mini's that each one take's one of your streams and the Bolt only has 4, were the pro's have 6 so if you hook up your mini's to a pro you will still have 4 available on the pro and only 2 on the Bolt just a thought


Thanks, yeah, that was one of the main deciding factors even though I wouldn't have both Minis active/on at the same time too frequently but still.

I ended up getting the Roamio Pro from Amazon earlier this week and set it up (haven't set up the Minis yet) and so far, so good!


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## jeffw_00

Just curious - now that the Roamio has QuickPlay, SkipMode, and integrates streaming services into the menus, etc. Configurations (# of tuners) aside - does the Bolt have anything over the Roamio other than 4K? 

Thanks!
/j


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## beyondthetech

I had the same issue when the Roamio started to have the same software features as the Bolt. Of course, my heart was set on the Bolt because I was picking up a 4K TV at the same time. Unfortunately, I ended up not getting a 4K TV, but by that time, the return period had passed for the Bolt. And then TiVo introduced the Roamio upgrades and I felt slightly jaded.

A slight increase in processor speed and a longer product lifespan are the only other things I see as an advantage over the Roamio.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## epstewart

jeffw_00 said:


> Just curious - now that the Roamio has QuickPlay, SkipMode, and integrates streaming services into the menus, etc. Configurations (# of tuners) aside - does the Bolt have anything over the Roamio other than 4K?
> 
> Thanks!
> /j


I have a Bolt and a Roamio Plus, and like them both. Were I to be buying my first TiVo today, I'd opt for the Bolt unless I really needed the extra tuners of the Roamio. The Bolt has a faster processor, 4K (which might come in handy if I upgraded my TV), and is not at the end of its lifespan as a current product. In my setup, it helps that the Bolt had a smaller footprint. Yet if a potential customer waits a bit longer, there may be a Bolt Pro that has more tuners and even faster processor speed.


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## atmuscarella

jeffw_00 said:


> Just curious - now that the Roamio has QuickPlay, SkipMode, and integrates streaming services into the menus, etc. Configurations (# of tuners) aside - does the Bolt have anything over the Roamio other than 4K?
> 
> Thanks!
> /j


It really depends on what Roamio you are talking about.

Bolt Advantages over Roamio Plus/Pro:

4K
Faster processor & more memory -affects apps the most
Can do OTA (versus cable only)
Has MoCA 2.0 (versus Moca 1.1)
Wireless is AC (versus N)

Bolt Advantages over Roamio (base model):

4K
Faster processor & more memory -affects apps the most
Has built in "Stream" (versus needing an external Stream device)
Has MoCA 2.0 (versus needing an external Moca device)
Wireless is AC (versus N)
Has GB Ethernet (versus 100 Mb)

Bolt Advantages over Roamio OTA:

4K
Faster processor & more memory -affects apps the most
Can do digital cable with a cable card (versus OTA only)
Has built in "Stream" (versus needing an external Stream device)
Has MoCA 2.0 (versus needing an external Moca device)
Wireless is AC (versus N)
Has GB Ethernet (versus 100 Mb)

I consider the Bolt an excellent upgrade to the Roamio & Roamio OTA. However it is really not much of an upgrade to the Roamio Plus/Pro. There are also some advantages to the various Roamios over the Bolt like hard drive upgrade options for all of them, and more tuners & more Stream features for the Plus/Pro.

I am not sure I would replace any Roamio if I had lifetime on it with a Bolt. However if I had a base Roamio or Roamio OTA that I was paying monthly or annually I would replace them in a heart beat.


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## jeffw_00

Good points - sorry, I guess I tune out the differences that don't affect me (MoCA, Wireless, OTA). Could you explain "Has built in "Stream" (versus needing an external Stream device)"? I thought Roamio supported Amazon, Netflix, etc - am I misreading this one?
I also did not know that the Roamio Plus/Pro had GB Ethernet - but this is useful only for LAN, I believe?


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## atmuscarella

jeffw_00 said:


> Good points - sorry, I guess I tune out the differences that don't affect me (MoCA, Wireless, OTA). Could you explain "Has built in "Stream" (versus needing an external Stream device)"? I thought Roamio supported Amazon, Netflix, etc - am I misreading this one?
> I also did not know that the Roamio Plus/Pro had GB Ethernet - but this is useful only for LAN, I believe?


TiVo likes to confuse people with how they name things. The word "Stream" has several meanings when it comes to TiVo and depending on what meaning you are using requires different hardware.


First you have streaming as it refers to using services like Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, etc. At this time all TiVos in the Premiere, Roamio, Bolt lines have the same apps, with the Bolt adding the ability to stream 4K from some services
Second you have streaming as it pertains to streaming shows from one TiVo to another Tivo and from a TiVo to a Mini. At this time again all TiVos in the Premiere, Roamio, & Bolts lines can stream between each other and to Minis. Note: you have to have a 4 or 6 tuner TiVo to setup a Mini after that it can also stream recordings from a 2 tuner Premiere to a Mini.
Then you have the "Stream" I was taking about. That is the ability to stream a recording/live TV from a TiVo to an Android or iOS devices or to a computers web browser. This requires special hardware not related to 1 & 2 above. There is a stand alone Stream devices that allows this type of streaming from all Premieres, & the 4 tuner Roamios. The 6 tuner Roamios have the same hardware built in as the stand alone Stream device. The Bolt uses a special chip to accomplish the same thing but it can only stream to 2 devices at a time where the stand alone Stream device and what is built into the Roamio Plus/Pro can stream to 4 devices at a time. Also the Bolt's is currently limited to in home use where the stand alone Stream & Roamio Plus/Pro Stream can stream to devices out of the home. Note: out of home Streaming is supposed to be coming for the Bolt with a software update. 

Regarding GB Ethernet - yes that pertain to your LAN and only really matters if you do allot of transferring/copying (as apposed to streaming) of shows between TiVos or TiVo and a computer.


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## jeffw_00

got it - not high on my list, but I see how others could want it


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## epstewart

jeffw_00 said:


> got it - not high on my list, but I see how others could want it


If you prefer a Roamio, you might want to wait until the model you want is about to be discontinued, when you can expect a clearance sale.


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## CaptainTiVO

georgeorwell86 said:


> Yeah, that last part is kind of a big deal for me. Being on TWC, if I ever want to do serious streaming outside the house, it's going to have to be Slingbox...as the only channels that stream currently are the major networks.


I, too, needed component (and composite) output because of the way I wired my house in 2005. I use a Mini with breakout cables, works fine.


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