# Best small multi-directional antenna?



## qposner (Sep 28, 2003)

I finally talked my parents into going with an HR10-250. The DTV installer installed a Winnegard Squareshooter. However, there is little to no signal strength on most local HD channels. At my house (other part of the state), I have a 4 bay Channel Master (4228?). Antennaweb says my parents need a small multi-directional antenna for the yellow region. Since I know nothing about the Squareshooter, are there any better suggestions? They have several trees and are approx 15 miles from the antennas.

Thanks!


----------



## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

The SQSH is a great antenna, actually, but not in the league of the 4228 (few are). When installing the SQSH, be sure to try orienting it in both H and V directions before mounting down tight, because if you rotate it up to 90 degrees (yaw, not azimuth) it will do a better job for UHV vs VHF, depending on the original orientation.

Antennaweb is terrific for finding what channels there are and what the azimuth to each is, but their antenna advice is too general, and not really geared to DT channels that actually broadcast HD. If you take their general suggestion and remove all of the analog and DT SD channels that you do not really need, it often gives you a better idea of what antenna to get, and where to point it.

Even at only 15 miles, you cannot beat the 4228 for UHF and high-VHF DT reception. The trees can cause a lot of attenuation and multipath scatter, which the 4228 will typically cut through. Be careful of overload, though. You may need to actually add extra attenuation with such a hot antenna from so short a distance, especially if using a HR10, which overloads easily.


----------



## qposner (Sep 28, 2003)

How about the 4221 (what I meant to sy originally)? The 4228 is much bigger and I think my parents would prefer the 4221.


----------



## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

Less directional, less gain. Good antenna, but not as good. If you could try it and swap it out later, it might be worth it. But, you need all of the directionality you can get if there is a lot of multipath, especially with the HR10, which does not have the greatest tuner. You might be a candidate to wait for the new HD DVR, which has the NeXtWave tuner, a huge improvement over the best 4th-gen tuners and applicable to multipath scenarios.

The 4228 isn't really very large (about 3 ft square) and isn't really ugly, in fact from 50 ft away all you can see is the smaller superstructure, which is not much larger than the SQSH.


----------



## mikeny (Dec 22, 2004)

I'm a similar distance from the broadcasting stations and the 4221 is perfect for my HR10-250. I agree with the op about the size as well. The 4228 is almost 2 feet wider and your parents will probably be more accepting of the aesthetics.


----------



## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

Similar distance doesn't always equal similar scenario (trees can make a huge difference).

I also can't imagine accepting the aesthetics of any antenna that performs poorly. If the 18th-green flag is 430 yds away over a water hazard, sometimes you just need the big ugly driver.


----------



## qposner (Sep 28, 2003)

The location of the antenna is near a neighbors house, so aesthetics is a concern. I am 30 iles from the towers (albeit with less trees) and my 4221 is great in my attic. 

The problem is my parents are in a treed area of west Bellevue, WA and the towers are in Seattle.


----------



## mikeny (Dec 22, 2004)

TyroneShoes said:


> Similar distance doesn't always equal similar scenario (trees can make a huge difference).
> 
> I also can't imagine accepting the aesthetics of any antenna that performs poorly. If the 18th-green flag is 430 yds away over a water hazard, sometimes you just need the big ugly driver.


I never said to accept it if it performs poorly. Please don't be rediculous. It's rated at 45 miles. I would give it a try. If the trees are wreaking havoc, then I would use a different approach.


----------



## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

You may want to consider the Terrestrial Digital Lacrosse. I have one and it works well.


----------



## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

Antennasdirect DB4 is what I use and it works great. Small and works just as good as my 4228 did. I don't use the 4228 because it was too big for my liking.


----------



## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Actually, you need the antenna that will do the job reliably, regardless of size. Trust me.


----------



## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

At the risk of being considered "rediculous" [sic] , hilly terrain and no line of sight implies that you should get the antenna with the highest directionality possible, and mount it as high as possible. Even that may not give you reliable reception 24/7, but anything less is going to give you even more grief, more often. Trust Jim.

You may also need an amp (probably not), a variable attenuator (probably yes), an FM trap, or possibly all 3 to maximize reception (but worry about those after you get the antenna in place). You should not need a mast-mounted preamp, however. Unless any of your VHFs are on _physical_ channels below Ch 7, the 4228 sounds like the best choice for your situation. It is only about 3 feet square, and 3 inches thick. Anything less, would be, well, less.


----------



## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

I've utilized the 4228 w/o problem for many months ....and I've simply hung it from a truss (using a couple nails) in my attic. It's currently supplying the OTA for 3 HR10/250's with nary a pixelated 'blip.'


----------



## sloan (Feb 13, 2003)

You might want to consider the RadioShack Omni.










Mainly, because you can usually get it local, and return it if it doesn't fit the bill.

Ok, its not meant as a on top of the TV, but its not very big.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/i...mni+antenna&kw=omni+antenna&parentPage=search

Again, the best part is that you can take it back .... or at least my local one has a good return policy.

21" diameter isn't the smallest, but its not crazy big either.


----------



## LlamaLarry (Apr 30, 2003)

I have a 4228 (and a 7777 preamp) and just love it. I looked here when I was shopping and they seem to have a lot of good info on a variety of antennas. I can pick up my 7 and 9 VHF channels fine, but you will see the gain curve seems to be worst at 7 and 12, exactly the ones you need.  I am 50+ miles away, so I would guess that if you're close enough it won't matter.


----------



## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

I'm using a highly directional indoor antenna (silver sensor). Some nights I get great signal across the board, and then sometimes (windy days/nights) OTA is nearly unwatchable. I am very close to the towers (CW is the furthest at 19 miles, the "tower farm" is 7.3 miles away). Doesn't seem to matter if I plug the antenna directly into the TV or the HR10-250, so I don't know if fussing with the cables inside the TiVo will improve things.

I know generally:
Bigger is better
Higher is better
Outdoor is better
Directional is better

But seeing how I'm SO close to the towers (with lots of trees) do I need to go the other direction (less gain)? Perhaps an attenuator? The silver sensor has an adjustable gain but I can't seem to get it just right.

I can install an outdoor/attic antenna but I don't want to waste the time if it's just going to make things WORSE.


----------



## Grecord (Sep 28, 2006)

FWIW, there is no best because each location is different. 

Having said that, the SS1000 from Winegard has worked for us in more locations out to 30mi than any other. We don't have V-low/V-high 8VSB in our DMA so we don't use combo antennas and can't recommend a solution for those areas that need them. 

Our area has hilly terrain and flats but generally anything beyond 30mi requires larger and higher. Winegard 9065, 9085, and Andrew(formerly Channel Master) 4224 or 4228 roof mounts are typical although tower mounts are required in half of the locations over 50mi even in the flats. Attic mounts will have less signal and possible multipath induced by proximate metal such as ductwork. 

The most difficult issue for the end user is the lack of diagnostic information from the equipment. IE a failed reception due to low signal looks the same as a multipath, looks the same as a frontend overload and there is no indication of what the signal is outside the failure point. A clean signal is much more important than a strong signal. We have one local channel that is typically 9db lower than the rest but always works when the correct alignment is achieved. A signal that is too strong is the most insidious as balancing is more critical than with NTSC and the indication is not enough signal. 

Before mounting, test, test, and test again. Last week we mounted an antenna about 14" from where we tested using a handheld mast and it added another hour of adjusting to get a good signal which was not as good as what we had while holding it by hand and this was at a location less that 8mi from the xmit towers.

It may be a digital signal but it's still rf (read- voodoo and withcraft).


----------



## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Getting OTA is very subjective. It depends on transmitter power, obstacles between you and the towers and of course frequency. For example, I'm only a little over 9 miles from my towers, with a hill in between. I ended up with a Winegard 7084 to get reasonably stable reception. It is a large antenna mounted on my roof. I fully expect reception to change when the leaves fall off.


----------



## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

IneedCCs said:


> ...Tyrone, I now wait for your input. If you say go with the 4228, I'm gonna order it. Believe it or not, I'm currently using a 20-year old Radio Shack rabbit ears indoor antenna and getting pretty good results with it, but have to reposition it every day to get the channel(s) I want to record that day. But I'm sick of having to reposition it, and the day's gonna come when I can't get all of the channels I want that day. Hence my desire to get an outdoor antenna like the 4228.
> 
> I anxiously await your input.


Some of my recommendation for the 4228 is hands on experience, resulting in perfect reception 24/7 in an extremely reflective environment (downtown Phoenix aimed at a slit between two skyscrapers).

But most of my recommendation is based on weeks of research in finding an antenna that could perform in that environment, and it is summed up technically at hdtvprimer.com. They have a wealth of info on this and many more antennae, including polar plots (gain relative to azimuth) and spectrum charts (gain at frequency), as well as backside rejection figures and everything else you could possible want to know.

If you bond the two halves of the reflector together (simply twist some #12 copper wire around a couple points where they meet, and solder that if you like) the 4228, which is designed for UHF, also then picks up high VHF (7-13) very nicely. And it probably does that fairly well without that simple modification. It is supposed to work a bit better on higher than lower, but we get a channel 8 here, and it seems to come in as strong (carrier level) on this antenna as it does on other, high-V antennas we have tried, as well as about the same level other high-V stations come in. That bodes well for reception on 7.

With the 4228, 7 will still be your toughest challenge, so simply tune everything with that channel in mind, and the rest should fall into place (assuming all channels of interest are within 20 degrees or so of the same azimuth). Don't forget an FM trap and possibly an amp or attenuator, too.


----------



## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

IneedCCs said:


> ..."The Channel Master antenna you list is not an appropriate antenna to use. Antennas do not work well on frequencies they are not designed to work on, so you will need a different antenna. Both WNYT-DT (12) and WXXA-DT (7) are on high band VHF, so I would suggest you simply use a standard VHF/UHF antenna..."
> 
> If you disagree with his assessment, please feel free to say so. I would love to get the 4228, but don't see any point in doing so if I'm not gonna get good reception on two channels.


While I have great respect for the Chiefs you contacted, their responses are based on sound theory but limited information. The spec sheets for the 4228 clearly state reception for UHF, and that it is designed specifically for UHF only, but due to a serendipitous accident, as I described above and as is documented at hdtvprimer.com, it can easily be made to do a superb job at receiving high-V channels also. If I had not done this research and had not done the mod and proven that it works, I would probably agree with them. But ironically, this happy accident makes the 4228 nearly perfect for your needs. It certainly performs better than the $200 16-foot VHF RatShack antenna I replaced, and better than the $400 professional UHF antenna it also replaced.


----------

