# The Amazing Race 4.29.12



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

What, no penalty for "taking" the FF then not using it? Doesn't that unfairly eliminate other teams from using it?

I couldn't care less now who wins...I was REALLY pulling for team KY...but win or lose, they certainly had more fun and one of the best attitudes of any team in the history of TAR.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

Agreed.

The penalty was the time it took to get there and back to the challenge. Any number of people can do the FF with the first one finished getting the FF. As no-one had done it, that left it open for Mark & Bopper. Unfortunately, they were over three hours behind the last pair to leave, plus having to do the speed bump, meant they were still the last to arrive.

I agree that there's no-one worth pulling for now.

Ah well. We'll still watch, but don't care which pair of losers wins the whole shebang. Except, of course, those BP idiots!


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

Ah the Race is an hard master. Would've been an all time TAR moment if BB had missed a wheelbarrel of elephant dung.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

There is no way in hell that Bopper and Mark chase that FF. SOME other team would have done it. It's a complete waste of time to try for it 3+ hours after everyone else has left.

I was almost hoping Art and JJ would have come in last, just so someone could have said "You *****ed about other teams not doing the FF... why didn't YOU go do it?"

I now hope Brendon and Rachel don't win. $500 on extensions versus $1,000,000. Hmmmm... tough choice. She didn't even have the models' excuse about needing her hair for her job.

Vanessa really showed her class implying that B & R cheated on the wheelbarrows. The guy in the dung cart was doing the counting... it didn't matter what Rachel said. He said they were good, so they're good. They were handed the clue and continued on. If Rachel had complained that her count was different from the cart guy's count, then I can see it. But she didn't, and God knows she WOULD have if she thought she was right!  "Nobody messes with MY count!"


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> What, no penalty for "taking" the FF then not using it? Doesn't that unfairly eliminate other teams from using it?


Huh? Why would it? 

Anyone can go to it. Whoever actually finishes it first gets it.


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## Neenahboy (Apr 8, 2004)

Nuts, I wanted to see Rachel with a shaved head. 

Those finale previews... 



Spoiler



"You're the first to arrive; however, you didn't complete part of the roadblock."


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## debtoine (May 17, 2001)

Neenahboy said:


> Those finale previews...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nothing would make me smile bigger



Spoiler



than if Rachel and Brendan are the ones who screw up.



deb


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## zuko3984 (May 4, 2002)

I am probably the only one but at this point I am rooting for Rachel and Brendan. 
Vanessa & Ralph well do i really have to say anything about Vanessa and why i don't want her to win. Art & J.J. are the biggest whiners and complainers and just seem like complete jerks to me. Rachel and Dave Are ok i guess, but just something about Dave and the way he sometimes treats Rachel bothers me. So i actively dislike two of the teams and the third i dislike one member so by default i am rooting for Rachel and Brendan.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

martinp13 said:


> I was almost hoping Art and JJ would have come in last, just so someone could have said "You *****ed about other teams not doing the FF... why didn't YOU go do it?"


They used the FF in leg 4, they couldn't use this one.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

VegasVic said:


> They used the FF in leg 4, they couldn't use this one.


Thank you... I had forgotten. I was mindboggled that they wouldn't just go do it.


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

zuko3984 said:


> I am probably the only one but at this point I am rooting for Rachel and Brendan.
> Vanessa & Ralph well do i really have to say anything about Vanessa and why i don't want her to win. Art & J.J. are the biggest whiners and complainers and just seem like complete jerks to me. Rachel and Dave Are ok i guess, but just something about Dave and the way he sometimes treats Rachel bothers me. So i actively dislike two of the teams and the third i dislike one member so by default i am rooting for Rachel and Brendan.


I am not rooting for them but I am close to rooting for them. I am rooting for Dave and Rachel (I like Rachel and she gives as good as she gets) now that Bopper and Mark are out.

My second choice though is Brendan and Rachel just because the other two teams have made themselves far too unlikable. It would be great Karma to see their negativity rewarded by finishing behind Brendan and Rachel.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

zuko3984 said:


> I am probably the only one but at this point I am rooting for Rachel and Brendan.


Thus putting a whole new face on the phrase "crying all the way to the bank." 

I have news for that girl, and for Vanessa, too. Nothing you can do to the outside makes you pretty if you are ugly on the inside, and they are both ugly down to the bone.


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## Marc (Jun 26, 1999)

The clue for the roadblock said that Brendan and Bopper had to do the roadblock, but no one seemed to explain why that was.

Was it due to the number of roadblocks that their partners had done, thus making it so that Brendan and Bopper had to do all the remaining ones?


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## wendiness1 (Jul 29, 2005)

Well, this episode convinced me that the non-elim last episode was authentic and not thrown in at the last minute. The task they had to complete was too complex to have been able to pull together that quickly.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

VegasVic said:


> They used the FF in leg 4, they couldn't use this one.


Ah...I see. I thought they couldn't use this one because someone already "used" it. That's why I wondered about a penalty. I thought if someone chose the FF (even if they didn't use it like last night), then no one else could choose it.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

Marc said:


> The clue for the roadblock said that Brendan and Bopper had to do the roadblock, but no one seemed to explain why that was.
> 
> Was it due to the number of roadblocks that their partners had done, thus making it so that Brendan and Bopper had to do all the remaining ones?


Rachel and Mark had done 5 and Brendan/Bopper had done 3


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

The only way I can forgive the producers for telling Bopper and Mark to go for the FF is if it made no difference. They were sooo far behind that there was no way they'd catch up and get ahead of another team. It did add that little bit of excitement to an otherwise obvious elimination.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

It looked to me like the sky was starting to dim a good bit by the time Bopper & Mark got to the mat. I think that even with the FF they were still an hour or more behind. They were trying to make it look like they had a shot, but I really don't think they did.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

loubob57 said:


> It looked to me like the sky was starting to dim a good bit by the time Bopper & Mark got to the mat. I think that even with the FF they were still an hour or more behind. They were trying to make it look like they had a shot, but I really don't think they did.


This. I thought it was a fake out the whole time. I never thought they really had a shot. The BP guys I used to think were pretty smart, but really they aren't. They could have WON the leg, but chose not to go for the FF. They spent more time worrying about the other teams and less about their own game play which was average at best.

B&R? Well, I think they tried to make them as sympathetic as possible, but I just can't get the Rachel of BB out of my head and how disrespectful she was toward the others in the house. Seems she's getting a bit of comeuppance here.

I'm rooting for Rachel and Dave. They fight, but when the chips are down, they get it done and work together. I'm kind of convinced that if wife and I were in the same situation, we'd fight like that too. It's very stressful. But in the end, we'd get it done.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

Steveknj said:


> This. I thought it was a fake out the whole time. I never thought they really had a shot. The BP guys I used to think were pretty smart, but really they aren't. They could have WON the leg, but chose not to go for the FF. They spent more time worrying about the other teams and less about their own game play which was average at best.


They did the Fast Forward earlier in the season where they landed the remote control helicopter on the helmet. As such, they were not eligible to use the FF in this leg.

I would have loved to have seen KY use the FF that R&B passed on, then finish ahead of BP and see them go balistic! Oh well.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> I'm rooting for Rachel and Dave. They fight, but when the chips are down, they get it done and work together.


I think this about sums it up for me. As much of a 'hole as Dave has been, Rachel knows when to shut up and when to hand it back to him. I keep thinking he'll go ballistic or she'll cave and shut down, but they get past it and work together well.


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## Hippster (Nov 28, 2001)

I almost threw the remote at the TV when Rachel started whining about her $500 hair extensions and how she needs her hair to look pretty. Wow just wow. She clearly has no realization that they are actually on A RACE now instead of Big Brother.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

Hippster said:


> I almost threw the remote at the TV when Rachel started whining about her $500 hair extensions and how she needs her hair to look pretty. Wow just wow. She clearly has no realization that they are actually on A RACE now instead of Big Brother.


The reality of it is that she would have ended up cutting her hair for $20 thousand. I have no problem whatsoever with he not wanting to cut her hair.

My wife did comment that she would cut her hair today for 20k, if only we could find someone to offer us the cash!


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## MarkofT (Jul 27, 2001)

Marc said:


> The clue for the roadblock said that Brendan and Bopper had to do the roadblock, but no one seemed to explain why that was.
> 
> Was it due to the number of roadblocks that their partners had done, thus making it so that Brendan and Bopper had to do all the remaining ones?


I wonder if it was a medical thing. Wasn't Mark made to do the skydiving thing in the first or second episode?


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

I almost threw the remote when they left, and she kept asking "Do you WANT me to cut my hair?" and he kept saying no. Dude, man up. The answer is "Yes, because 1000000 > 500, but you'll have a Rachel Meltdown(TM) if I say anything other than 'no'."


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

MarkofT said:


> I wonder if it was a medical thing. Wasn't Mark made to do the skydiving thing in the first or second episode?


Pretty sure the skydiving restriction was weight-based.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

martinp13 said:


> Pretty sure the skydiving restriction was weight-based.


I'm not sure about that. I mean, I'm sure there are weight restrictions, but Bopper is not bigger than Mark (or big at all).


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## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

Do teams have to declare that they are not doing the FF, and then can't change their mind later? Could Vanessa and whatever his name is gone back and done the FF when they found out it hadn't been done yet?



Maui said:


> I am rooting for Dave and Rachel (I like Rachel and she gives as good as she gets) now that Bopper and Mark are out.
> 
> My second choice though is Brendan and Rachel just because the other two teams have made themselves far too unlikable. It would be great Karma to see their negativity rewarded by finishing behind Brendan and Rachel.


This is exactly my line of thinking too...


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

kettledrum said:


> Do teams have to declare that they are not doing the FF, and then can't change their mind later? Could Vanessa and whatever his name is gone back and done the FF when they found out it hadn't been done yet?


Not to my knowledge. It's fair game for anyone until it's taken, as far as I know.

I was wondering why the border patrol guys kept harping on Brendan and Rachel, when they could have tried to goad Vanessa and Meathead into doing it, too, but I am guessing that Vanessa got wind of what it involved and would not have done it.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Neenahboy said:


> Those finale previews...


No kidding. That pissed me off. I don't mind the occasional preview that gives something minor away, but that was extremely uncalled for. Now we'll know next week that


Spoiler



whoever gets to the mat first will have to turn around and go back.





wendiness1 said:


> Well, this episode convinced me that the non-elim last episode was authentic and not thrown in at the last minute. The task they had to complete was too complex to have been able to pull together that quickly.


 What about the belly painting task was so complicated that they couldn't have put that together in less than a day?


martinp13 said:


> The only way I can forgive the producers for telling Bopper and Mark to go for the FF is if it made no difference. They were sooo far behind that there was no way they'd catch up and get ahead of another team. It did add that little bit of excitement to an otherwise obvious elimination.


I'm pretty sure that the producers gave some strong hints to Mark and Bopper that they should go for the FF. They probably already knew that Mark & Bopper were out, and Mark & Bopper may have even known that, but given how long they had to keep the challenges open in the previous episode, they didn't want to have to do that again. The logistics are very complicated, and I'll bet the producers wanted to get the leg finished and get out of India rather than sitting around for another 3-4 hours waiting for Mark & Bopper to make rope and shovel elephant dung.


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

Not that this was the leg for 1M, but Big Brother lost out on 20k. He should have stepped up and said cut your hair, if we win the leg, we'll get $$, a trip (which we can use on our honeymoon) or a prize. Not to mention we'll be one step closer to the million dollars and for finishing no worse than 4th, we'll get enough $$ to buy a wig until your hair grows back.

We always knew Rachel was vain and insecure, but with (potentially) a million dollars on the line, she won't do whatever it takes.

This is the 2nd time that there's been very little strategy happening and instead the racers recognize just how extremely far back the last team is so there really wasn't a sense of incredible urgency.

Team BP went from having it together to really breaking down haven't they? They just looked wiped out and exhausted. I think the race is Dave and Rachel's to lose. They seem to have everything hitting on all cylinders.


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

laria said:


> Not to my knowledge. It's fair game for anyone until it's taken, as far as I know.
> 
> I was wondering why the border patrol guys kept harping on Brendan and Rachel, when they could have tried to goad Vanessa and Meathead into doing it, too, but I am guessing that Vanessa got wind of what it involved and would not have done it.


I don't understand why they thought it would make any difference. The four that were there were the ones who were going to be the final four anyway (due to Kentucky being over 3 hours behind).


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

Necromancer2006 said:


> We always knew Rachel was vain and insecure, but with (potentially) a million dollars on the line, she won't do whatever it takes.


I don't know if I could do it. Like the BP guy even said, it is a tough thing for a woman to do.

She was blubbering about the $500 extensions, but I don't think that was really an issue. The main thing was really just losing all her hair.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

laria said:


> Not to my knowledge. It's fair game for anyone until it's taken, as far as I know...


See that's what I was wondering. They "took" it, but then didn't use it. Does that mean that another team could have used it? But, then, the other teams saw that it had been "taken"....how would they know if it's not been used? That's what puzzled me...


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## wendiness1 (Jul 29, 2005)

Men just don't understand about women and their hair.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> See that's what I was wondering. They "took" it, but then didn't use it. Does that mean that another team could have used it? But, then, the other teams saw that it had been "taken"....how would they know if it's not been used? That's what puzzled me...


Nobody "took" it. Every team got the FF clue in their clue pouch, and any of them could have gone for it. If more than one team were there at the same time, there would be a race to see who finished first. Remember a few episodes ago when Dave & Rachel and Joey Fitness & Danny were stacking the hay bales at the same time? Dave & Rachel won, and Joey Fitness & Danny had to go back and do all the tasks and were way behind.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

laria said:


> I don't know if I could do it. Like the BP guy even said, it is a tough thing for a woman to do...


As the husband of a wife who's gone through losing her hair due to chemo from breast cancer treatment, I can say that there are FAR worse things than losing your hair. While not technically her choice, it's a small price to pay...


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Wendiness, you mentioned earlier that the Speed Bump in this episode solidified for you that the non-elim in the previous episode had to be preplanned. What did you mean by that?


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Bierboy said:


> See that's what I was wondering. They "took" it, but then didn't use it. Does that mean that another team could have used it? But, then, the other teams saw that it had been "taken"....how would they know if it's not been used? That's what puzzled me...


In the past, if you arrive at the Fast Forward and somebody else has already completed the challenge and taken it then there will be a sign that says that the Fast Forward has already been claimed. Then the team has to go back and complete a different challenge.

It isn't claimed until somebody finishes the task. And many of the challenges let multiple teams compete for it where the first team who completes it gets it and the other has to go back and do a different task.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> See that's what I was wondering. They "took" it, but then didn't use it.


They didn't take it... it hasn't been taken until it's complete.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Also, it seemed to me that it took FOREVER for team KY to get to the FF. Could have been creative (or poor) editing I guess...


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> No kidding. That pissed me off. I don't mind the occasional preview that gives something minor away, but that was extremely uncalled for. Now we'll know next week that
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





Spoiler



Don't we usually know anyways by the time the team arrives to the mat that they screwed up in someway?


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## wendiness1 (Jul 29, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> Wendiness, you mentioned earlier that the Speed Bump in this episode solidified for you that the non-elim in the previous episode had to be preplanned. What did you mean by that?


It just seemed to me to have been a task that involved more preparation and planning than would be comfortable in the short time given. They've done other Speed Bumps in the past that would have been much more simple to pull together.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

JFriday said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Don't we usually know anyways by the time the team arrives to the mat that they screwed up in someway?





Spoiler



We may have a pretty good idea, but we don't know for sure until Phil says something. Without that spoiler, we'd be on the edge of our seats wondering whether Team A is going to get a penalty or whether they'll win. Now, we just sit back and say, "Ho hum, Team A has to go back and fix something, no big deal"


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

wendiness1 said:


> It just seemed to me to have been a task that involved more preparation and planning than would be comfortable in the short time given. They've done other Speed Bumps in the past that would have been much more simple to pull together.


We're talking about the same challenge, right? The paint the tiger on the belly challenge? What about that challenge would have required lots of preparation and planning? The tiger belly guys were there dancing anyway at the temple where the teams had to take off their shoes to receive the clue. How would it require much preparation and planning to have one team paint a tiger on one of the guys' bellies?


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## plateau10 (Dec 11, 2007)

DevdogAZ said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> We may have a pretty good idea, but we don't know for sure until Phil says something. Without that spoiler, we'd be on the edge of our seats wondering whether Team A is going to get a penalty or whether they'll win. Now, we just sit back and say, "Ho hum, Team A has to go back and fix something, no big deal"





Spoiler



Keep in mind it's a two-hour finale. I'd guess it's far more likely the screw up will be on the first leg, not the finish line. Unless I'm not remembering the preview correctly (can't recall if he said anything that would definitely have made it the finish line. I seem to remember all the previous contestants giving each other shocked looks, as if they were reacting, but that could just be misleading editing).

Edit: yep, disregard all of above. I re-watched it and it's clear it's the finish line. I still think there's going to be a trick to the preview, because I doubt they would have given that much away.


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

Ment said:


> Ah the Race is an hard master. Would've been an all time TAR moment if BB had missed a wheelbarrel of elephant dung.


But why was Vanessa so concerned about it? I'm sure if Brendan and Rachel had miscounted, the people handing out clues would not have given them their next clue.

There was no reason to bring it up there at the mat except to start trouble.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

Spoiler



No, the screw-up is clearly on the FINAL finish mat.

The two-hour finale looks like it'll be two one-hour episodes back-to-back with a Philimination at the end of the first hour and the final three teams duking it out for the second hour.


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

martinp13 said:


> There is no way in hell that Bopper and Mark chase that FF. SOME other team would have done it. It's a complete waste of time to try for it 3+ hours after everyone else has left.
> 
> I was almost hoping Art and JJ would have come in last, just so someone could have said "You *****ed about other teams not doing the FF... why didn't YOU go do it?"
> 
> ...


smeeked


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

plateau10 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Keep in mind it's a two-hour finale. I'd guess it's far more likely the screw up will be on the first leg, not the finish line. Unless I'm not remembering the preview correctly (can't recall if he said anything that would definitely have made it the finish line. I seem to remember all the previous contestants giving each other shocked looks, as if they were reacting, but that could just be misleading editing).


Based on other spoilers I've read, the finish line for the race this season is in


Spoiler



Hawaii. The teams go from India to Japan, and then finish in Hawaii.



So based on that information, it seems that the spoiler we saw at the end of this episode showed Phil


Spoiler



standing at the finish line on the beach in Hawaii. The rest of the previously Philiminated teams react because they're there to hear Phil tell that team to go back and finish the challenge. So it pretty much ruins any suspense that might have existed in next week's finale, unless the team that has to go back and fix something was so far ahead that it then makes the finishing order more exciting.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

What puzzled me about the preview was


Spoiler



the people/teams were not familiar. I didn't recognize them. Maybe I should re-watch it, but it looked like people I had never seen before...


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## wendiness1 (Jul 29, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> We're talking about the same challenge, right? The paint the tiger on the belly challenge? What about that challenge would have required lots of preparation and planning? The tiger belly guys were there dancing anyway at the temple where the teams had to take off their shoes to receive the clue. How would it require much preparation and planning to have one team paint a tiger on one of the guys' bellies?


I didn't realize the dancers were there anyway. I thought they had to dig them up somewhere and transport and all that.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

wendiness1 said:


> I didn't realize the dancers were there anyway. I thought they had to dig them up somewhere and transport and all that.


If you go back and watch when the first team gets to that point of the race, those guys are there dancing.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

How about this for a conspiracy theory:

The producers knew that Brendan and Rachel would be the first eligible team to receive the FF clue, and would thus almost certainly go for it. They also knew that making Rachel shave her head would generate all kinds of Rachel drama. Rachel drama = good TV. Thus, is it possible that the producers decided to insert the "shave your head" FF just before the beginning of this leg, when it appeared very likely that Rachel was going to be the first one presented with that choice?


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

bryhamm said:


> But why was Vanessa so concerned about it? I'm sure if Brendan and Rachel had miscounted, the people handing out clues would not have given them their next clue.
> 
> There was no reason to bring it up there at the mat except to start trouble.


Perhaps she thought that it was up to the contestants to determine when they'd filled the requirements i.e the clue people weren't in on the count. Looking back yes that does not make sense.


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

If only Kentucky had taken the four hour penalty at the very beginning of the Bollywood dance roadblock (like when they realized it was choreographed dancing), they MIGHT have made it.


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## zuko3984 (May 4, 2002)

I have no problem with Rachel not wanting to shave her head. I'm a guy and I would have trouble doing that. I'd probably do it but i know it wouldn't just be any easy thing. And i really think most women would have a hard time with it. I really think it is a lot harder for a women to walk around completely bald. Sure it's a race but some things are more important then winning. Everyone has a limit and i have no problem with her limit being shaving her head. 
And winning the fast forward does not guarantee winning the leg or even not being eliminated. All it does is let the team go right to the pit stop. Now in all likely hood the fast forward would enable the team to win the leg but one bad cab driver or mechanical problems or any number of things can happen. So really it would be shaving your head for a good chance at winning the leg but no guarantee.


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

Re the preview for next week:



Spoiler






> The rest of the previously Philiminated teams react because they're there to hear Phil tell that team to go back and finish the challenge.


Because of editing, _nothing_ should be assumed about what you see in the preview. For all we know, those shots of the other teams "reacting" were just random shots taken while waiting for the 3 final teams to arrive.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

trainman said:


> Re the preview for next week:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Of course that's possible. But it's pretty clear that both they and Phil are all


Spoiler



on a beach in Hawaii, which is the location of the finish line for this season.


 So whether those reaction shots were genuinely filmed


Spoiler



as Phil told the team they had to go back, or whether they were recreated for the camera,


it doesn't really matter. What matters is that the previews gave away a very key piece of information, which I would argue was going too far, even for a preview.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I think it's unfair to have the shave-your-head thing if there some teams who are all male. It's like having some physically heavy lifting thing that a woman could barely be expected to do and then letting all male teams zip right through it. If all the teams have at least 1 woman on them, then that would be ok.


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

stellie93 said:


> I think it's unfair to have the shave-your-head thing if there some teams who are all male. It's like having some physically heavy lifting thing that a woman could barely be expected to do and then letting all male teams zip right through it. If all the teams have at least 1 woman on them, then that would be ok.


You could technically say the same thing about dancing or balance challenges for girl teams. It's luck of the draw.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

stellie93 said:


> I think it's unfair to have the shave-your-head thing if there some teams who are all male.


Wow, sexist much? Women can shave their heads just like men can, especially when it's for a million dollars.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> What matters is that the previews gave away a very key piece of information, which I would argue was going too far, even for a preview.


Unless, of course, they didn't, which is typical TAR preview behavior. For example,


Spoiler



perhaps every team gets turned back.


Often (just about always) what they telegraph occurs as depicted but in a different context than one assumes. So I'm waiting to see how what they show isn't really a spoiler after all. Because I'll bet it isn't.


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## TomK (May 22, 2001)

Rachel said she needed her hair to make herself look beautiful. In my opinion, she needs a lot more than hair to do that.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

pdhenry said:


> Unless, of course, they didn't, which is typical TAR preview behavior. For example,
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Even if what you said in your spoiler does happen, that doesn't change the fact that the preview still gives away way too much. It alters the way you would be watching as the first team approaches the finish line, which ruins the show, IMO.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> Even if what you said in your spoiler does happen, that doesn't change the fact that the preview still gives away way too much. It alters the way you would be watching as the first team approaches the finish line, which ruins the show, IMO.


Crap, this race has already been ruined with the KY boys eliminated...


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## zuko3984 (May 4, 2002)

martinp13 said:


> Wow, sexist much? Women can shave their heads just like men can, especially when it's for a million dollars.


It's not for a million dollars, it's for a chance at a million dollars. I think that is a huge difference. If it was shave your head and you get the million i think she might have gone through with it. But as it was shaving her head would not have even guaranteed them winning the leg of the race.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Ment said:


> Ah the Race is an hard master. Would've been an all time TAR moment if BB had missed a wheelbarrel of elephant dung.


Haven't read the whole thread yet, but that was weird. Even Rachel's statements and the overlays at first seemed to agree that she thought they had done more than they had actually done..

Clever/tricky/manipulative editing? I guess so.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

stellie93 said:


> I think it's unfair to have the shave-your-head thing if there some teams who are all male. It's like having some physically heavy lifting thing that a woman could barely be expected to do and then letting all male teams zip right through it.


Like the circus bell-ringing thing that Tiffany Michelle & her partner got stuck on? (and at least Tiffany is BIG/strong.)


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

I give Vanessa props for taking a nasty tumble and then getting up and keeping on. She left a good patch of skin on the pavement. (maybe it was synthetic skin?  )

Of course I also noticed she wasn't limping much at the pit stop, so she couldn't have twisted her ankle very much.

Oh well... I guess I have to root for the Army couple now.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

jradosh said:


> ...Of course I also noticed she wasn't limping much at the pit stop, so she couldn't have twisted her ankle very much...


But, but, but...."I heard something pop!".....


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

Bierboy said:


> But, but, but...."I heard something pop!".....


She did land partly on her chest...


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

jradosh said:


> She did land partly on her chest...




Actually the way she was holding her shoulder I thought she had broken her collar bone. That would have probably been race-ending.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Bierboy said:


> But, but, but...."I heard something pop!".....


I think that was her ego.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

zuko3984 said:


> It's not for a million dollars, it's for a chance at a million dollars. I think that is a huge difference. If it was shave your head and you get the million i think she might have gone through with it. But as it was shaving her head would not have even guaranteed them winning the leg of the race.


True, but if you go for the Fast Forward and then pass it up, you have wasted a lot of time. In this case it didn't matter, but if it's a leg where the teams are bunched up and every task is first in first out, that can cost you the race. Zero chance at a million dollars.

They were early enough in the leg that they would have been probly 95-100% sure that they'd come in first. Big trip, or in this case $20,000. And first out of the gate the next leg. To me that's worth shaving a head.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

martinp13 said:


> They were early enough in the leg that they would have been probly 95-100% sure that they'd come in first. Big trip, or in this case $20,000. And first out of the gate the next leg. To me that's worth shaving a head.


Spoken like a man


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

jradosh said:


> She did land partly on her chest...


I hereby crown this *THE *post of this thread....


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

loubob57 said:


> Actually the way she was holding her shoulder I thought she had broken her collar bone. That would have probably been race-ending.


From the preview last week, I thought she had dislocated her shoulder. That hurts like hell.


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

martinp13 said:


> True, but if you go for the Fast Forward and then pass it up, you have wasted a lot of time. In this case it didn't matter, but if it's a leg where the teams are bunched up and every task is first in first out, that can cost you the race. Zero chance at a million dollars.
> 
> They were early enough in the leg that they would have been probly 95-100% sure that they'd come in first. Big trip, or in this case $20,000. And first out of the gate the next leg. To me that's worth shaving a head.


I wonder if knowing Mark and Bopper starting so far behind them factored into their decision. Perhaps they deteremined (rightly so) that they weren't going to get eliminated but the reward of winning the leg wasn't worth shaving their hair.


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

Spoiler



Just a little info on the locations. I could tell from previews that the Japan leg is in Tokyo (Imperial Gardens) and the Hawaii one is near Waikiki as the towers that they were rappelling down are near downtown.


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## tem (Oct 6, 2003)

murgatroyd said:


> From the preview last week, I thought she had dislocated her shoulder. That hurts like hell.


I thought she blew her achilles.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

wendiness1 said:


> Men just don't understand about women and their hair.





Bierboy said:


> As the husband of a wife who's gone through losing her hair due to chemo from breast cancer treatment, I can say that there are FAR worse things than losing your hair. While not technically her choice, it's a small price to pay...


I have no problem with someone not wanting to shave their head. I have a problem with her crying and talking about how she needs her hair to make her pretty. And that's mainly because it was just the reason of the week for her to cry. I am tired of her crying.

My dad worked with a lady who lost her hair to chemo. The day she returned to work with no hair, my dad had also shaved his head so that she would not be alone. He got nothing for that except her appreciation. I thought that was awesome on his part!


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## Skyler (Oct 9, 2002)

jradosh said:


> I give Vanessa props for taking a nasty tumble and then getting up and keeping on.


The camera person was running very close behind Vanessa when she fell. I wonder if the camera person's foot snagged Vanessa's ankle and caused the fall?


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Jebberwocky! said:


> Spoken like a man


Heh, well, spoken AS a man who doesn't have a whole lot of hair to lose.  I've seen plenty of bald women, from medical patients to women who just like their hair cut "too short", and I don't get the big deal. Self-inflicted baldness is temporary. It grows back.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Skyler said:


> The camera person was running very close behind Vanessa when she fell. I wonder if the camera person's foot snagged Vanessa's ankle and caused the fall?


It didn't look like it... I would expect the camera to jerk around if the carrier got tangled with someone.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

I played back Vanessa's fall several times because I was sure I heard a 'pop' sound, too, and the replays listening for it confirmed that. My immediate thought was, "Was that pop real, or editor's enhancement?"


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## gschrock (Dec 28, 2001)

For those that think it had to be producers manipulating to get the kentucky guys to go to the FF, personally, if I was in the same position they were, knowing I was probably almost impossibly behind, I'd likely swing by the FF just to see if it was still doable. Realistically, it was the only chance they had of catching up (although obviously, even that wasn't enough). So to me, it made perfect sense.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

gschrock said:


> For those that think it had to be producers manipulating to get the kentucky guys to go to the FF, personally, if I was in the same position they were, knowing I was probably almost impossibly behind, I'd likely swing by the FF just to see if it was still doable. Realistically, it was the only chance they had of catching up (although obviously, even that wasn't enough). So to me, it made perfect sense.


I don't think the producers did it as a way to manipulate the game. I think they did it simply to speed things up, because the outcome was inevitable, so they "encouraged" them to head for the FF so the producers wouldn't have to keep the challenges open and have camera crews out there for another several hours.


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

gschrock said:


> So to me, it made perfect sense.


I agree. They were so far behind I thought it would've been odd if they _hadn't_ checked out the fast forward first.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Skyler said:


> The camera person was running very close behind Vanessa when she fell. I wonder if the camera person's foot snagged Vanessa's ankle and caused the fall?


I was wondering if it was the CAMERA that bumped into her. (From the various outtakes on other reality shows, esp Real World, which obviously has much less running around, it happens a lot.)


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## xuxa (Oct 8, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> I don't think the producers did it as a way to manipulate the game. I think they did it simply to speed things up, because the outcome was inevitable, so they "encouraged" them to head for the FF so the producers wouldn't have to keep the challenges open and have camera crews out there for another several hours.


In an interview they said they estimate they finished about 35-40 minutes to an hour after the border patrol guys. They took the FF chance because they knew that was their only shot. They figured they were pretty much already eliminated with they left the hotel after the fact.


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> I don't think the producers did it as a way to manipulate the game. I think they did it simply to speed things up, because the outcome was inevitable, so they "encouraged" them to head for the FF so the producers wouldn't have to keep the challenges open and have camera crews out there for another several hours.


I'd be pissed if the producers coaxed me to take the FF and shave my head if they knew it would not make a difference and only wanted "speed things up".

I assume Mark and Bopper decided to do the FF on their own.


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## wendiness1 (Jul 29, 2005)

martinp13 said:


> Heh, well, spoken AS a man who doesn't have a whole lot of hair to lose.  I've seen plenty of bald women, from medical patients to women who just like their hair cut "too short", and I don't get the big deal. Self-inflicted baldness is temporary. It grows back.


Sounds like none of the women you've seen actually chose to shave their heads, nor did they keep a shaved head any longer than necessary.

You may not "get it" but baldness is, for women, incrediblly traumatic.


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

wendiness1 said:


> You may not "get it" but baldness is, for women, incrediblly traumatic.


Especially when your hair is allowed to define who you are and give you a sense of self-worth!


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

wendiness1 said:


> You may not "get it" but baldness is, for women, incrediblly traumatic.


Sexist much? Women have no monopoly on that particular bit of silliness.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

xuxa said:


> In an interview they said they estimate they finished about 35-40 minutes to an hour after the border patrol guys. They took the FF chance because they knew that was their only shot. They figured they were pretty much already eliminated with they left the hotel after the fact.


It's interesting that they don't actually know how far behind they were. I would think they would have asked Phil or a producer or SOMEONE. They are guessing 35-40 minutes based on the shadow they saw on the mat when they watched the show Sunday night.

And 30-40 minutes for the speed bump. Seems to me (not sure) that many other speed bumps took far less time.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

VegasVic said:


> And 30-40 minutes for the speed bump. Seems to me (not sure) that many other speed bumps took far less time.


Like 5 minutes in the sauna bus?


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## andyw715 (Jul 31, 2007)

Necromancer2006 said:


> Especially when your hair is allowed to define who you are and give you a sense of self-worth!


Esp since Rachel's hair is so hot.


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## KyleLC (Feb 6, 2002)

andyw715 said:


> Esp since Rachel's hair is so hot.


That's why it's red.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

Even Joyce who did have her head shaved a few seasons ago struggled with it. But she did it and they eventually won the whole race.

My favorite was when the Christian models got to that point and they *both* (male and female) said they couldn't do it because of their profession. But God sent you to this spot for a reason! He wants you to shave your heads.


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

loubob57 said:


> Even Joyce who did have her head shaved a few seasons ago struggled with it. But she did it and they eventually won the whole race.
> 
> My favorite was when the Christian models got to that point and they *both* (male and female) said they couldn't do it because of their profession. But God sent you to this spot for a reason! He wants you to shave your heads.


Yep - they totally missed the message from God about that one!


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

MarkofT said:


> I wonder if it was a medical thing. Wasn't Mark made to do the skydiving thing in the first or second episode?


He did just have surgery on his knee. Maybe it was that.



wendiness1 said:


> Men just don't understand about women and their hair.


Superficial women. Only women who care too much about their appearance. Anyone who is in a race and wants to win should do whatever it takes to increase their chances of winning. Hair grows back for goodness sake. Wear a scarf or hat.

I remember one season of The Mole where the task for one woman was to shave her head. She declined and used the excuse that her wedding was coming up. The real reason she didn't do it was she was the Mole.

I didn't watch this episode until tonight and I already knew who was going to be eliminated because stupid Julie Chen told me Mark and Bopper were going to be today's guests on the Talk.

I would have so loved for the second task to be something incredibly time consuming to give mark and Bopper the chance to take the FF and make it to the mat ahead of somebody. Where's the airport equalizer when you really want it???


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## wendiness1 (Jul 29, 2005)

tiams said:


> Superficial women. Only women who care too much about their appearance. Anyone who is in a race and wants to win should do whatever it takes to increase their chances of winning. Hair grows back for goodness sake. Wear a scarf or hat.


I rest my case.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

wendiness1 said:


> I rest my case.


...um....I don't think so. He was spot on.


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## wendiness1 (Jul 29, 2005)

Bierboy said:


> ...um....I don't think so. He was spot on.


I rest my case again.

This is my point, you guys. You don't understand. And you keep proving that you don't understand. It's kind of amusing, actually.


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

wendiness1 said:


> I rest my case again.
> 
> This is my point, you guys. You don't understand. And you keep proving that you don't understand. It's kind of amusing, actually.


So you're saying that if someone came to you and offered you a 1 in 4 chance to get a million dollars and all you had to do was shave your head, you wouldn't do it?


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

wendiness1 said:


> I rest my case again.
> 
> This is my point, you guys. You don't understand. And you keep proving that you don't understand. It's kind of amusing, actually.


 :up:

Not all men are that dense - I totally get it.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

DavidTigerFan said:


> So you're saying that if someone came to you and offered you a 1 in 4 chance to get a million dollars and all you had to do was shave your head, you wouldn't do it?


Personally, I don't know if I would or not. Especially if it was not for a guarantee, only a maybe.

It would certainly be traumatic for me if I did, though.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

it was not a 1-4 chance to get a million for a haircut. 

It was an offer to cut your hair for 20k. There was no chance that they were going home, none. So in effect they were going for the first place prize, whatever it would be.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

Jebberwocky! said:


> it was not a 1-4 chance to get a million for a haircut.
> 
> It was an offer to cut your hair for 20k. There was no chance that they were going home, none. So in effect they were going for the first place prize, whatever it would be.


Even then, in hindsight it was for $20k, but we all know that more often than not the prizes are usually a trip for 2 somewhere. So when weighing it at the task, I would have been thinking it was an offer to cut my hair for a week vacation.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Jebberwocky! said:


> it was not a 1-4 chance to get a million for a haircut.
> 
> It was an offer to cut your hair for 20k. There was no chance that they were going home, none. So in effect they were going for the first place prize, whatever it would be.





laria said:


> Even then, in hindsight it was for $20k, but we all know that more often than not the prizes are usually a trip for 2 somewhere. So when weighing it at the task, I would have been thinking it was an offer to cut my hair for a week vacation.


Not only that, but the tax implications of receiving these trips mean it's often advantageous not to accept the prize at all, so without Rachel knowing ahead of time that the prize for this leg was $10k in her pocket, she was basically just turning down the chance at a trip which she might not be able to afford to keep.


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

And let's not forget that she just won $500,000 just a few months prior to filming this show. I am guessing that the money or prizes for winning individual episodes means that much to her.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

wendiness1 said:


> I rest my case again.
> 
> This is my point, you guys. You don't understand. And you keep proving that you don't understand. It's kind of amusing, actually.


You're the one that's amusing, thinking this is a woman thing. It's not.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Jebberwocky! said:


> it was not a 1-4 chance to get a million for a haircut.
> 
> It was an offer to cut your hair for 20k. There was no chance that they were going home, none. So in effect they were going for the first place prize, whatever it would be.


Yes there was a chance they were going home. When they arrived at the FF they had no idea what the two challenges they would have to do if they didn't do the FF were. Had either one been something that tripped them up and took a lot of time or they were for whatever reason incapable of finishing easily, Mark and Bopper could have conceivably taken the FF and beaten them to the mat. What if their cab broke down along the way? What if they screwed up the directions and got a penalty? What if they screwed up with navigating and went in the wrong direction out of the way and took a lot of time back tracking.

I still say they should have shaved their heads. Period. It's a race and you want to win. If you are so vain you aren't willing shave your head you don't deserve to win.


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## wendiness1 (Jul 29, 2005)

heySkippy said:


> You're the one that's amusing, thinking this is a woman thing. It's not.


I never said it was exclusively a woman thing. We are discussing the effect on women in this particular case.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

wendiness1 said:


> I never said it was exclusively a woman thing. We are discussing the effect on women in this particular case.


...and I will say again, being married to a woman who has successfully battled breast cancer, and, in the process lost her hair to chemotherapy, this discussion reveals just how vain some women (and men) are.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

wendiness1 said:


> I never said it was exclusively a woman thing. We are discussing the effect on women in this particular case.


I'm a woman and I would have shaved my head no question. My competitiveness far outweighs my vanity. And my hair grows back. I would have even shaved my head for a shot at $20,000.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

tiams said:


> I'm a woman and I would have shaved my head no question. My competitiveness far outweighs my vanity. And my hair grows back. I would have even shaved my head for a shot at $20,000.


Bazinga! We have a winner!


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> ...and I will say again, being married to a woman who has successfully battled breast cancer, and, in the process lost her hair to chemotherapy, *this discussion reveals just how vain some women (and men) are*.


I think that's the point Wendiness was trying to make when she said, "I rest my case." She was saying that in response to a post that said, "Superficial women. Only women who care too much about their appearance." I think her point is that most women fall into the description of superficial, vain, and caring too much about their appearance.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

I guess I am just superficial and vain. 

Way to judge.


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## wendiness1 (Jul 29, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think that's the point Wendiness was trying to make when she said, "I rest my case." She was saying that in response to a post that said, "Superficial women. Only women who care too much about their appearance." I think her point is that most women fall into the description of superficial, vain, and caring too much about their appearance.


Thanks for the support. But, um, actually, no. I don't think it's just superficial vanity.

Look, while many men don't like being bald they don't have their masculinity torn away by it. We as a society are used to seeing bald-headed men. They don't get gawked at. Nobody says they look feminine. Bald-headed women still get stared at. And it does affect how they are perceived. Consider how Kim's mustache has been mocked here. Many women have them but hide them because they are considered masculine.

Bierboy, I'm thrilled that your wife won the battle and that she managed to get through the chemo and hair loss with her dignity intact. But I'll bet that given her drothers she'd rather have achieved all that WITHOUT losing her hair if possible.


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

Or, perhaps she realized that in the grand scheme of things, hair is pretty low on the list?


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

Necromancer2006 said:


> Or, perhaps she realized that in the grand scheme of things, hair is pretty low on the list?


But did she shave her head before cancer?

Because you people are acting as if it's not an important physical characteristic?

Who is to say what is important to whom? If she does it for $20K, is she just after money? That seems just as superficial?


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

fmowry said:


> But did she shave her head before cancer?
> 
> Because you people are acting as if it's not an important physical characteristic?
> 
> Who is to say what is important to whom? If she does it for $20K, is she just after money? That seems just as superficial?


Wait. What???

They're racing for a million dollars. What else is it about if not the money??????


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