# TiVo, DirecTV, HDTV - Information / Clarification Sought



## TonyB1966 (Sep 26, 2009)

New to the Community here, but not exactly new to TiVo's... I've had my DirecTV TiVo for about 9 years, and it's still working very well! I have lifetime service on it which I believe I got for $200. Actually, I was an employee there back in the day...

I'm finally wanting to join the rest of world by getting an HDTV. To be honest, I was wanting to pull the trigger today at Costco, but the tuner / TiVo box has me holding-off as I feel very ignorant as to my options.

First, I'd ideally like to stay with TiVo as I hear that the other options just don't match-up. And I'm happy to hear that. Amazing how I was once quite knowledgeable on TiVo's offerings, and I'm now feeling completely lost...

When I called DirecTV a while back when I first began contemplating this move, I was told that I would lose my lifetime service. On this forum, if I read correctly, the service is tied to the account, which I plan to keep. Is this indeed true, and if so, is it referenced somewhere in writing? I live in a canyon where cable is not an option, so unless there's another satellite worthy of consideration for my situation, I'm staying with DirecTV...

And, I believe I also read that TiVo and DirecTV are jointly working on a new HDTV box. However, when it will be released seems to be a mystery. What are my choices now?

I really appreciate any input and advice provided. If there are other considerations that I failed to mention, please share...

Thanks much for your help. Would love to watch some college football today in HD. Maybe soon...


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

You won't loose your lifetime service that is grandfathered on your account. If you do, then just call them and complain. It's tied to the account and not the box. 

As for when the new box will come out... it supposed to be sometime in 2010. 

If you really want HD now, then given your situation, I would just get the Directv HD DVR until then. You should try to get it for shipping costs only. I personally don't agree with paying for something that is considered a lease (as it pertains to equipment).


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## TonyB1966 (Sep 26, 2009)

Thanks for the fast reply and confirmation that lifetime is tied to the account and not the equipment. I thought I read somewhere else that it was not grandfathered after 4 years though (amortization)... And in another place I read that it was only grandfathered if before Feb 2000. Confusing. Mine is from late 2000 to early 2001...

So, DirecTV has their own box that assume does not have TiVo on it. That sucks, especially if I must pay for it and a monthly charge (lease). I guess I wouldn't mind doing this, especially if I only pay for shipping costs, but when I go back to a TiVo box, whenever it becomes available, how can I be certain my lifetime will be reinstated? Might there be a viable way to convert my current box to HD? Even 10 years back I recall some serious mods being done to TiVo's...


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Well, they are not releasing any info on the cost structure of the new Tivo boxes for Directv. Some have speculated that it will have an added cost above the normal DVR fee.

Also, be aware that changes in your equipment will get you another 2 year commitment. This is a fact that they almost never disclose.


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## TonyB1966 (Sep 26, 2009)

Thank you again.

Drat, I just called DTV... A 2 year commitment to DTV? If so, I can live with that. I really don't have any other options. I don't let them know this though...

I can get their DVR for $99, plus tax, or $108.16. A few things are waived, including an $80 install. There would be no monthly service fee or changes in my current billing. I thought this thing was leased, but she said nothing would change on my bill (amount being paid). She confirmed that lifetime is tied to the account. If and when I get this TiVo box, lifetime remains...

I will look for this DTV box today. The rep said that they are sold in stores, but to expect to pay about $500?!


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## John T Smith (Jun 17, 2004)

Forum for the HD DirecTv brand is at http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=112


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## The Spud (Aug 28, 2002)

TonyB1966 said:


> Thank you again.
> 
> Drat, I just called DTV... A 2 year commitment to DTV? If so, I can live with that. I really don't have any other options. I don't let them know this though...
> 
> ...


I believe there are no monthly service charges due to your lifetime deal, otherwise the charge is $6/month.

It is ok to discuss the Directv HD DVR in the Directv HDTV Tivo Powered DVR forum here, but you will probably get faster answers over at the DBSTalk forum that John T Smith above me mentioned.


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

TonyB1966 said:


> ...
> 
> I will look for this DTV box today. The rep said that they are sold in stores, but to expect to pay about $500?!


Not true. You can often find them somewhat cheaper at Costco. Best Buy also carries DirecTV equipment.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

If you only pay $99 or so for it then you can expect that it will be a lease. You will also incur a 2 year commitment regardless of what they tell you.

Your bill won't go up but it will show one of the mirror fees as a leased box. I just don't like the idea of leasing a box where I have to pay for the box (or some portion of it).



TonyB1966 said:


> Thank you again.
> 
> Drat, I just called DTV... A 2 year commitment to DTV? If so, I can live with that. I really don't have any other options. I don't let them know this though...
> 
> ...


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

TonyB1966 said:


> Thank you again.
> 
> Drat, I just called DTV... A 2 year commitment to DTV? If so, I can live with that. I really don't have any other options. I don't let them know this though...
> 
> ...


Cheapest you can find it in stores is in Costco for $170, but it is also a lease price. The deal you got from DirecTV is not bad, they given you $100 off regular price plus free install. You may want to call them back and tell them that you want it free or you will go for the Dish free DVR promotion for the new customers. They are likely to match it.


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## TonyB1966 (Sep 26, 2009)

Thanks all! You are a mighty kind bunch.

Had a nice post, then a browser crash... Dang.

It is indeed at 170 at Costco. It seems to be pretty bare-bones though. Anyone know if there is something comparable to the Season Pass? If so, I didn't see it mentioned on the box...

Thanks for the Dish Network info too. I can play some hardball with DTV, if need be. Dish's DVR is not TiVo as well and of course there I lose my lifetime service for sure ($6 / month there too).

Mirror fee? Can you define that please? I'm not liking what I hear. Sounds like some shenanigans to me...

I'm going to check that link now. I really don't like the current options...

EDIT / ADD - That forum is really helpful, thank you John! It seems that the 99 bucks also gets me a new dish as well. That said, as someone said, bargaining works, as seen here: (oops, not enought posts yet)

I will do some research on competitor offers, then call again.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

My sister got it for shipping and free install (including dish) but I don't think they actually shipped. 

The mirroring fee is just their way of charging you an extra $4.99 per month. They call it a mirror fee (if you own the equipment) or lease fee (if you do not).


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## TonyB1966 (Sep 26, 2009)

But if I'm going to be charged that 5 bucks for mirroring, then my bill would be going-up by that amount. Supposedly my bill would only go up $10 for the HD programming, and I hope to change that after my next call, thanks to you all. And what exactly is being mirrored? I will ask DTV, but from what you all say, I probably won't get any straight answers.


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## Runch Machine (Feb 7, 2002)

I have both a Tivo series 3 HD DVR used for off air TV only AND a DIRECTV HD DVR. At this point they are functionally equivelent except that only Tivo makes suggestions if you turn that feature on. It appears to me that DIRECTV has copied every feature except suggestions and then gone further to make the DIRECTV DVR slightly better than the Tivo DVR. 

The DIRECTV HD DVR now has dual tuners and they are testing MRV which should be out soon. A few of the things I like about the DIRECTV DVR better than Tivo is the percent of disk space used and Caller ID on the screen for phone calls. 

I also like that you only have to push the Record button once to record a show or just twice to set up a season pass. In fact there is a default option you can set up so for example, if you normally want new episodes only, store no more than 5 episodes, start and end on time etc, you set the defaults so you don't have to go through all the options each time. 

The interface looks a little different than the Tivo interface but is does exactly the same thing. At this point when Tivo software is again available on DIRECTV's DVRs I don't think I would pay extra to get it. 

People don't watch the DVR interface, we watch TV programming. Since the DIRECTV DVR is functionally the same as the TIVO DVR, there should be no reservation about upgrading to HD.

As far as your monthly bill, if you are not changing the number of receivers on your account, your montly bill will only increase by the $10 HD Access fee.

The mirroring fee is just the additional receiver fee. If you have a total of 3 receivers, you will pay a total of $10 in additional receiver (mirroring) fees. They call it mirroring because they mirror the programming package from your primary receiver to your additional receivers. 

As far as the lease concept, the advantage to leasing is that you will get free replacment equipment if your leased reciever breaks. The only disadvantage to leasing is that you can't sell the receiver if you cancel service. If you cancel DIRECTV you must return the equipment to DIRECTV. Not a problem in my book. Ever lease a car? It's the same concept.


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## TonyB1966 (Sep 26, 2009)

Runch Machine - thank you! I feel so much better about this (a non-TiVo DVR) now. I will still attempt to get a better deal. I just tried calling, but support is now closed. I will call in the morning...

I have just one tuner / receiver. That said, DTV seems to think I have another as i was asked about second one. It's either in a box somewhere or I sold it. I told them that... Actually, it was a standalone as I recall. So, I should not get a mirror charge...

Your post was most helpful. I'm totally fine with leasing, most especially if I'm not paying for the box up front. Never leased a car before, but the analogy is a good one.

Well, I will go buy an HDTV, if not tomorrow, in the next day or two!


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

Runch Machine said:


> It appears to me that DIRECTV has copied every feature except suggestions and then gone further to make the DIRECTV DVR slightly better than the Tivo DVR.


To say that DirecTV has copied EVERY feature on a series 3 Tivo is a wild mischaracterization of the truth.

There are no streaming movies from NetFlix or Amazon's unbox.

There is no access to Youtube videos.

There is no internet radio or Rhapsody access.

There is no Tivotogo.

There is currently no MRV. (I know it is in beta testing, but they have been hinting at this service and who knows when it will finally be released to the masses).

There is no swivel search.

Who knows how many, if any of these features will be implemented on the new Tivo/DirecTV box, but there is a substantial amount of features that seperates a HD Tivo from DirecTV's in house HD DVR.


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## TonyB1966 (Sep 26, 2009)

For closure sake, I just want to say that DTV is coming-out this Friday, for a free upgrade / install. A gal in retention was awesome! As with others here, I also got the $10 HD programming waived for a year and all premium channels free for a couple months. Thanks much everyone. The rep did confirm that lifetime service is indeed tied to the account. Oh, she also did mention that I would have a 2 year commitment - so DTV, or at least this rep, was un front about this...

After I got that squared-away, I finally bought my first HDTV. I had a few on my short list, but decided upon the Sammy 46750B.


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## The Flush (Aug 3, 2005)

I just added the HD-DVR last week and in exchange for the 2 year commitment, I got it for free, no install fee or handling fee, HD access fee waived for 1 year, $10/month programming credit for 1 year, and Starz/Showtime free for 6 months. The day after activating it, I called about the Sport Pack in order to get a football game that was not available locally and they gave me $5/month off the Sports Pack for 3 months (after which I will cancel the Sports Pack). It sometime pays to politely ask for what you want.


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## catocony (Nov 14, 2006)

So guys who just switched over to DirecTV DVR from DirectTivo - hows the interface compare in your opinion? As I've written in other threads, my direct comparison is from a ST DSR-704/714 boxes to the fairly bad R15 DirectTV-labeled DVR. No comparison there, the R15 is laughably bad compared to Tivo in features, ease of use, speed of setting up recordings, etc. Pretty much in all facets. 

So, how do the new HD DSRs from DirecTV look?


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## TonyB1966 (Sep 26, 2009)

As a matter of follow-up, me too.

I got a gal in retention... Free dish, DVR and install. No $10 HD programming charge for a year, and all premium channels free for a couple months. She confirmed that the free lifetime is indeed tied to the account, which was great to hear. She said after one year my bill would be just $10 higher due to the HD programming, or unless of course the package I have goes up...

With that squared-away, I bought an LCD TV (finally!) and away this Friday...


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I have an HR10, HR20 and HR21. The user interface of the HR2x series is different from TiVo's, and that throws some people off. It's perfectly functional, though.

By the way, the box you see at Costco is in no way "bare bones" - it's the same model as provided by DirecTV. All DirecTV+ HD DVRs have two tuners, all have the equivalent of Season Pass, all can be networked, all support streaming to PCs, video on demand, dual live buffers and more.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Sounds good. I hear that there are going to be awesome deals for big screen TVs on Black Friday. So, maybe you might want to grab another one by then.



TonyB1966 said:


> For closure sake, I just want to say that DTV is coming-out this Friday, for a free upgrade / install. A gal in retention was awesome! As with others here, I also got the $10 HD programming waived for a year and all premium channels free for a couple months. Thanks much everyone. The rep did confirm that lifetime service is indeed tied to the account. Oh, she also did mention that I would have a 2 year commitment - so DTV, or at least this rep, was un front about this...
> 
> After I got that squared-away, I finally bought my first HDTV. I had a few on my short list, but decided upon the Sammy 46750B.


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

magnus said:


> Sounds good. I hear that there are going to be awesome deals for big screen TVs on Black Friday. So, maybe you might want to grab another one by then.


I hear that every year. And every year I am sorely disappointed.


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## vman (Feb 9, 2001)

Just one other point - there may be an install charge if you use a pole mount. The new dish does not fit on the same size pole, and to dig a hole and install a new pole the installer will charge you anywhere from $50-100. If you are installing on your roof, it is free.


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## The Flush (Aug 3, 2005)

vman said:


> Just one other point - there may be an install charge if you use a pole mount. The new dish does not fit on the same size pole, and to dig a hole and install a new pole the installer will charge you anywhere from $50-100. If you are installing on your roof, it is free.


My new pole mount was free with the free upgrade. It could depend upon the installer.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Ok, thanks for that. However, I'm pretty sure this year you are going to be getting one. If what I am seeing is true.



bengalfreak said:


> I hear that every year. And every year I am sorely disappointed.


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## belunos (Sep 19, 2002)

I wanted to pipe in and say give it a week to get used to it. Believe it or not it really is a great DVR. I mean, if you're looking for Rhapsody or youtube you may be a little dissapointed. But all in all it's a really nice unit.

Don't get me wrong.. I think I'd still rather have a Tivo interface if just because it's what I started on. But it wouldn't keep me away at night if I never used Tivo again compared to the dtv unit


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## rbtravis (Aug 9, 2005)

belunos said:


> I wanted to pipe in and say give it a week to get used to it. Believe it or not it really is a great DVR. I mean, if you're looking for Rhapsody or youtube you may be a little dissapointed. But all in all it's a really nice unit.
> 
> Don't get me wrong.. I think I'd still rather have a Tivo interface if just because it's what I started on. But it wouldn't keep me away at night if I never used Tivo again compared to the dtv unit


What are you talking about? I see no prior post, are you attempting to hijack this thread?


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## HellFish (Jan 28, 2007)

It's not a hijack, he's answering a direct question from post #19. If anything, the guy in post #19 is the hijacker.


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## myers (Oct 21, 2009)

belunos said:


> I wanted to pipe in and say give it a week to get used to it. Believe it or not it really is a great DVR. I mean, if you're looking for Rhapsody or youtube you may be a little dissapointed. But all in all it's a really nice unit.
> 
> Don't get me wrong.. I think I'd still rather have a Tivo interface if just because it's what I started on. But it wouldn't keep me away at night if I never used Tivo again compared to the dtv unit


This is my first post (I've enjoyed reading and learning) however, I must chime in for a moment as well. 
12 year customer of Direct TV... I came from DirecTV TiVo... (after 3 yrs or so with it) and have spent the last 2 years with the DirecTV HD DVR that everyone is speaking of, I believe.

I don't use any of the Rhapsody/YouTube/Etc features, so that has nothing to do with my assessment.

What I do use it for, is to navigate through the channels and watch/record TV... I think I'm in the majority with that.

If the TiVo system was a 9 out of 10.... this is a 5.5 / 10 at best.

Yes, it is "serviceable"... Exactly what I want out of something I'm spending over $2,000 annually to enjoy. <sarcasm>

The biggest drawbacks, IMHO, are that it is slow...slow...slow in reacting/responding to the push of the remote buttons. s.l.o.w.
There are times that I get SO FRUSTRATED TRYING TO CHANGE THE CHANNEL... as I try to type 2....4.....9 (but it took so long for the 2 and the 4 to show up, that it fades... and now I have a 9-- on the screen... so now I have to wait 5 sec for the 9 to go away, to try it again...) And that's just part of it. It's very much like trying to unlock the car door as someone lifts the handle... after a minute, you're ready to kick the door open to end the madness. 

If you are a person (like myself) who can/will watch two programs simultaneously... (football games, etc...) On the TiVo system, I could be watching one channel, hit pause... go to the other reciever, watch it for a bit, hit pause and switch back... UN pause and watch, etc...
On the DTV DVR system, it will not hold the pause... as a matter of fact it won't hold the channel... _UNLESS_ YOU ARE RECORDING IT... so in order to do any of this, you MUST BE RECORDING BOTH SHOWS... so you can't ever decide, while on one channel, to surf other channels... because you are locked on recording both shows...

So, those are two, top of mind, major drawbacks to this DVR.

Those who say it is "very similar" or anything along those lines, are some extremely tolerant people.

I don't know that I'll be able to afford to go back to TiVo when it comes out... but I'm certainly going to try.

Thanks for listening.


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## johnhartshorn (Jan 4, 2008)

magnus said:


> Sounds good. I hear that there are going to be awesome deals for big screen TVs on Black Friday. So, maybe you might want to grab another one by then.





bengalfreak said:


> I hear that every year. And every year I am sorely disappointed.


The best deals will be on 60hz TVs to get them out of the supply channels. Manufacturers are now pushing 120 and 240 hz models. Deals on these will be limited.

In response to last years trampling death, Walmart will publish the 'deals' in advance, and provide a store map showing where the sales items are located.

John
Wally World Sales Associate


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