# Any Tivo CES 2019 news?



## lucidrenegade (Aug 21, 2013)

Any news/announcements about an Android TV app, new hardware, etc. from CES?


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

@davezatz placed this tantalizing entry at his website/blog earlier this evening, as to TiVo CES news:


> The news is coming, but I'm not sure when&#8230; it's something I've been pining for a long time.


Tablo OTA DVR To Automatically Skip Commercials (in the comments)

Now I'm trying to remember Dave's pinings.


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Should be obvious!


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

davezatz said:


> Should be obvious!


Give a hint--does it start with Roku?


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

This is the only news from TiVo at CES so far:

Verizon Extends Partnership With TiVo to Deliver Personalized User Experience for 4.6 Million Subscribers

and

TiVo Releases New Churn Analysis From Its Personalized Content Discovery Platform


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Maybe that sports recording extender feature? Is that big enough to be a CES thing?


----------



## ric hardt (Jan 9, 2019)

Couldn't someone at CES just stop by booth and ask if new FireTV, AndroidTV and AppleTV apps are ever going to be a reality?


----------



## Yamboo31 (Nov 23, 2016)

This was posted on Dave's facebook about 4 hours ago TiVo.Innovate


----------



## jwbelcher (Nov 13, 2007)

Yamboo31 said:


> This was posted on Dave's facebook about 4 hours ago TiVo.Innovate


lol I was going to guess wifi mini but didn't think it'd be a dongle


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Yamboo31 said:


> This was posted on Dave's facebook about 4 hours ago *TiVo.Innovate*





jwbelcher said:


> lol I was going to guess wifi mini but didn't think it'd be a dongle


Which function would be for? @davezatz?
​


----------



## steinbch (Nov 23, 2007)

That dongle is plugged into the USB of a Mini 4k, so I'm guessing it's a 802.11ac WiFi dongle that's approved by TiVo.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

I'm not a Tivo.Innovate member--anything said there (apart from the posting of the pic)?

A bit curious that it seemingly uses a "lay it/stick it on the side" style rather than TiVo's earlier, collapsible L-shaped design for wireless adapters. Perhaps for more flexible placement for enhanced wireless reception (assuming that it is a wireless receiver)?​


----------



## ric hardt (Jan 9, 2019)

So while the rest of the technology world is creating new products Tivo repackages a USB WiFi dongle? How about a real "Mini" or stick which could fit behind a TV mounted on the wall?


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

ric hardt said:


> So while the rest of the technology world is creating new products ...


Once again, much of the rest of the technology world has the luxury of not being saddled with MPEG2 transmissions.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> Once again, much of the rest of the technology world has the luxury of not being saddled with MPEG2 transmissions.


If it turns out to be a WiFi dongle, I will buy one in a second. And if it only works on an A95, it will surely piss off a bunch of people.


----------



## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> Once again, much of the rest of the technology world has the luxury of not being saddled with MPEG2 transmissions.


Why is it so hard to transcode MPEG2 to MPEG4? Amazon Recast seems to do it with no problem.

Or skip straight to H.264. Here's an algorithm from 13 years ago:
Fast Transcoding Algorithm from MPEG2 to H.264


----------



## ric hardt (Jan 9, 2019)

krkaufman said:


> Once again, much of the rest of the technology world has the luxury of not being saddled with MPEG2 transmissions.


So why not create a better transcoding. Without mentioning names as I prefer my Tivo, competing products seem to be able to stream content in HD (originally mpeg2) to commonly used streaming devices. Tivo is just simply uninterested, lazy and/or no one is driving the boat.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

mdavej said:


> Why is it so hard to transcode MPEG2 to MPEG4? Amazon Recast seems to do it with no problem.


I expect it can be done, but I doubt it could be done, maintaining TiVo's trickplay features, without busting the budget.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

steinbch said:


> That dongle is plugged into the USB of a Mini 4k, so I'm guessing it's a 802.11ac WiFi dongle that's approved by TiVo.


And so, @davezatz, if you were reading the above, would your head be nodding up-and-down, or would it be going side-to-side? And, vigorously or slowly?


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

krkaufman said:


> I expect it can be done, but I doubt it could be done, maintaining TiVo's trickplay features, without busting the budget.


Trickplay wouldn't be an issue. In fact recoding would give them tighter control over the format of the stream and allow more reliable trickplay. I believe there are legal issues with transcoding cable though. There are a lot of rules surrounding what you can do with a CableCARD decrypted stream, and I'm not sure recoding is allowed.

If they wanted to make an OTA only DVR then they could probably get away with it, but at this point the only OTA only DVRs they've release are basically just the CableCARD DVRs they already offer with the CableCARD bracket removed.


----------



## rdrrepair (Nov 24, 2006)

TiVo Booth live video, no audio

Looking across the room and zooming in on the screen it looks like something with many tiles.


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Yes, there's a dongle. We'll get to that. But this is what you really want to see. Thanks to @TiVo_Ted for sharing!


----------



## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

davezatz said:


> Yes, there's a dongle. We'll get to that. But this is what you really want to see. Thanks to @TiVo_Ted for sharing!


I'll look past the vertical video of a widescreen TV for the moment. 

Will this work for TiVo Roamios? This looks great.


----------



## spiderpumpkin (Dec 1, 2017)

davezatz said:


> Yes, there's a dongle. We'll get to that. But this is what you really want to see. Thanks to @TiVo_Ted for sharing!


Having a Tivo app on those devices will be
nice but I will miss the Tivo remote control functionality.


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

modnar said:


> I'll look past the vertical video of a widescreen TV for the moment.
> 
> Will this work for TiVo Roamios? This looks great.


I assume it'll work for the Roamios ... that actually "roam" (which means Pro/Plus). And possibly those using the Stream accessory. If Ted finds a minute, maybe he'll hop into the thread. Not that anyone finds a free moment at CES.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Great, great news.

If it delivers (and isn't too crippled) this will simplify my home A/V setup considerably. The freeing up of an HDMI port will also be great.



davezatz said:


> Yes, there's a dongle. We'll get to that.


I'm curious for details on this too


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

davezatz said:


> I assume it'll work for the Roamios ... that actually "roam" (which means Pro/Plus). And possibly those using the Stream accessory. If Ted finds a minute, maybe he'll hop into the thread. Not that anyone finds a free moment at CES.


Right, I'm curious as to which streaming modules will be supported, and whether there will also be a requirement that the host be running TE4/Hydra.

Oh, and whether there will be any fee ($$$) for the app.

edit: Also if the demo'd ability to instantly stream live TV without all the "start a recording" hassle will also translate to the iOS and Android mobile apps.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

krkaufman said:


> Oh, and whether there will be any fee ($$$) for the app.


Dave's blog post says they intend for it to be free: https://zatznotfunny.com/2019-01/tivo-appletv/


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

That's interesting. So it's got the full functionality of the Mini? I assume it has to transcode the video, so does that mean that you'll be limited to two devices watching at a time? (since the Bolt can only support two streams at a time)


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> so does that mean that you'll be limited to two devices watching at a time? (since the Bolt can only support two streams at a time)


Yep, that's my assumption (and 4 via a Roamio Plus/Pro or Stream, per somebody's helpful TCF FAQ) ... though this limitation is probably one reason they're OK with offering the app as a freebie. (So the Mini is still a necessity, which may be the reason they're rolling-out an AC wireless adapter at the same time.)


----------



## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Interesting. This seems to explain why the TE4 interface is so bad; it had to be crippled to work with the reduced function of Apple, Roku and Fire remotes.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I wonder if it has SkipMode support? TrickPlay is kind of a drag on the current streaming apps.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I'm thinking this might be the first step toward a headless, Tablo-like, DVR. If they transcode during the recording, rather than on the fly, it would likely create an experience similar to the Mini. And since CableCARD is on the way out anyway, with no prospective replacement in sight, maybe they'll focus on OTA only from here on out.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Going back a step for those of us who are app-challenged, could you pare this back down for us?

And so, one would have a TiVo Roamio or Bolt box in the house, hook a Roku/Fire TV/Apple TV device into one's television (if the TV itself doesn't already have that capability built in, such as with a Roku or Fire-enabled TV), and then use the TiVo app on the Roku/Fire TV/Apple TV service to access the TiVo box wirelessly to access one's Roamio/Bolt box content?

What are the comparisons/downsides/upsides (really, price?) of this, as compared to a second TiVo box directly attached to the television? And how would this compare to attaching a TiVo Mini instead?

For reference, a fuller report at Dave Zatz' Zatznotfunny.com blog: TiVo To Bring Live Television and DVR Recordings to Apple TV, Roku, Fire TV.

It is speculated in the comments there that the app approach may not have all the functionality of a Mini--e.g. it was speculated that QuickMode could be absent, as could be the Skip button (does that mean that SkipMode would be absent)?

I'm just wondering: should one consider returning a TiVo Mini Vox picked up from Best Buy during the recent December promotions, during the almost-over (this week) extended holiday return period, or will a Mini have its own, unique advantages?

Lastly, any further word on the Mini dongle and its capabilities/advantages, especially vis-à-vis the Roku/Fire TV/Apple TV approach?


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

A further comment from @davezatz at his blog (above):


> Yes, these apps won't be as full featured or provide as high quality audio/video as a Mini. But they will be sufficient for many, especially in secondary locations. Thinking bigger picture (acquiring new customers versus just keeping us old timers happy), I think they'll look real good compared to Tablo and HDHomeRun network tuners which are something of a conceptual leap. Amazon has a slight edge over those since they can market all day, all night - lots of eyeballs on Amazon's site.


@davezatz, any idea of how a TiVo Mini/wireless dongle experience would compare to the Roku/Fire TV/Apple TV approach?

And any further word on the wireless dongle itself, including possible pricing?


----------



## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

Mikeguy said:


> A further comment from @davezatz at his blog (above):
> 
> @davezatz, any idea of how a TiVo Mini/wireless dongle experience would compare to the Roku/Fire TV/Apple TV approach?
> 
> And any further word on the wireless dongle itself, including possible pricing?





> Yes, these apps won't be as full featured or provide as high quality audio/video as a Mini. But they will be sufficient for many, especially in secondary locations. Thinking bigger picture (acquiring new customers versus just keeping us old timers happy), I think they'll look real good compared to Tablo and HDHomeRun network tuners which are something of a conceptual leap. Amazon has a slight edge over those since they can market all day, all night - lots of eyeballs on Amazon's site.


Why wouldn't the app have the same quality as the original feed? The source content is coming from a local device(local TiVo) so the stream should be the same. In the case of the Apple TV, the Channels TV/DVR app which works in conjunction with the HDHomeRun network tuner provides full-fledged audio and video TV viewing, I don't see why this app couldn't do the same.


----------



## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

I have a FireTV Cube hooked up to a tv that also has a first gen Mini. The Mini is fine for TiVo functions but the apps are horrible to use. So I have to switch inputs for my streaming apps.

If I can integrate TiVo into my FireTV UI without giving up too much, I would.

I’m looking forward to testing this side-by-side before I possibly remove my Mini.


----------



## El Maestro (Nov 19, 2013)

Dan203 said:


> I wonder if it has SkipMode support? TrickPlay is kind of a drag on the current streaming apps.


Agreed. I am very excited about this either way, but having skip mode on my Apple TV would just be a real home run for me.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

keenanSR said:


> Why wouldn't the app have the same quality as the original feed? The source content is coming from a local device(local TiVo) so the stream should be the same. In the case of the Apple TV, the Channels TV/DVR app which works in conjunction with the HDHomeRun network tuner provides full-fledged audio and video TV viewing, I don't see why this app couldn't do the same.


Audio. If it sends through the audio without change I'll sign on to "same quality". That's not done on 99% of other Roku apps.


----------



## josh1014 (Apr 16, 2003)

Any ideas how to throw your hat in the ring to beta test these new apps?


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

cwoody222 said:


> I have a FireTV Cube hooked up to a tv that also has a first gen Mini. The Mini is fine for TiVo functions but the apps are horrible to use. So I have to switch inputs for my streaming apps.
> 
> If I can integrate TiVo into my FireTV UI without giving up too much, I would.
> 
> I'm looking forward to testing this side-by-side before I possibly remove my Mini.


Thanks--that's the sort of real-world consideration I was looking for and would like to hear.

Of course, the "real dope" from TiVo/@TiVo_Ted/others would be nice as well--noting yet formally from TiVo, as far as I am aware.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

josh1014 said:


> Any ideas how to throw your hat in the ring to beta test these new apps?


Interesting that you mention that--perhaps a total coincidence, but I received an email from TiVo a few weeks ago asking/suggesting if I would like to update my TiVo beta-testing profile on file with it.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

keenanSR said:


> Why wouldn't the app have the same quality as the original feed? The source content is coming from a local device(local TiVo) so the stream should be the same. In the case of the Apple TV, the Channels TV/DVR app which works in conjunction with the HDHomeRun network tuner provides full-fledged audio and video TV viewing, I don't see why this app couldn't do the same.


Going years back to former TiVo VP Ira Bahr (pre-Rovi), wasn't one of the issues with possible wireless transmission to the Mini, and inquiries if that might be coming/be possible, TiVo's concern over the resulting quality? I recall that Ira had said that other manufacturers who touted their wireless video transmission simply didn't have the quality that TiVo demanded.


----------



## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Mikeguy said:


> Interesting that you mention that--perhaps a total coincidence, but I received an email from TiVo a few weeks ago asking/suggesting if I would like to update my TiVo beta-testing profile on file with it.


I just reached out to TiVo and asked where I could sign up to be a beta tester. They said there was no way, but that I could put in a request for a feature. :|


----------



## eherberg (Feb 17, 2011)

keenanSR said:


> Why wouldn't the app have the same quality as the original feed? The source content is coming from a local device(local TiVo) so the stream should be the same.


Roku's don't support mpeg2 (and older fireTV devices don't handle interlace). You would have to transcode just for Roku alone.


----------



## El Maestro (Nov 19, 2013)

PJO1966 said:


> I just reached out to TiVo and asked where I could sign up to be a beta tester. They said there was no way, but that I could put in a request for a feature. :|


SKIP. MODE. :tongueclosed:


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

PJO1966 said:


> I just reached out to TiVo and asked where I could sign up to be a beta tester. They said there was no way, but that I could put in a request for a feature. :|


TiVo at least used to have a beta-testing interest sign-up website, where you could list yourself and your devices, etc. for possible future TiVo contact. The last beta I did was in response to TiVo solicitations here and listed elsewhere.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

PJO1966 said:


> I just reached out to TiVo and asked where I could sign up to be a beta tester. They said there was no way, but that I could put in a request for a feature. :|


I just found my earlier email from TiVo Research Group at TiVo HQ in San Jose, from a month ago. 


> *Time to update your information!*
> Thank you for your interest in TiVo testing!
> 
> It's been awhile since you signed up to be a TiVo tester not too long ago, and we recently updated our sign-up form and need additional information from our testers. We also now offer opportunities to participate remotely via online video conference.
> ...


The link takes you to:


> Thank you for your interest in usability testing at TiVo!
> 
> As a usability tester, you'll help us determine whether a new product or feature we're developing is easy or difficult to use. You don't have to be a TiVo user to participate. We want to make sure everyone can use our stuff!
> 
> ...


A bit different from TiVo beta-testing, but heading in that direction. The link: https://advisors.tivo.com/wix/3/p3088231853.aspx?r=480&s=DUQMEDMU.


----------



## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

2019 ------ TIVO CES ANNOUNCEMENT!.....

Duct tape now comes with every remote to keep the batteries in.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

I’ve had about 10 TiVo remotes through the years and not once have any batteries fallen out.


----------



## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

eherberg said:


> Roku's don't support mpeg2 (and older fireTV devices don't handle interlace). You would have to transcode just for Roku alone.


Yes, I suppose developing for the lowest common denominator is what they'll have to do, it's just a shame that more capable devices like the Apple TV will end up with a lower quality video/audio stream as a result.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Maybe the stream adapts based on the receiving client. Maybe that’s why the AppleTV app arrives last.


----------



## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

Mikeguy said:


> Going years back to former TiVo VP Ira Bahr (pre-Rovi), wasn't one of the issues with possible wireless transmission to the Mini, and inquiries if that might be coming/be possible, TiVo's concern over the resulting quality? I recall that Ira had said that other manufacturers who touted their wireless video transmission simply didn't have the quality that TiVo demanded.


There shouldn't be any issue with wireless, streaming a 20 Mb/s stream is child's play nowadays. I've streamed full bitrate UHD rips over wifi. Years ago it may have been a problem, but I don't see it being a problem today.


----------



## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Mikeguy said:


> I just found my earlier email from TiVo Research Group at TiVo HQ in San Jose, from a month ago.
> The link takes you to:
> 
> A bit different from TiVo beta-testing, but heading in that direction. The link: https://advisors.tivo.com/wix/3/p3088231853.aspx?r=480&s=DUQMEDMU.


Thanks! I went through and filled out the survey. I should have known that someone here would know more than your average TiVo employee (no offense to our active TiVo employees here!)


----------



## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

Fofer said:


> I've had about 10 TiVo remotes through the years and not once have any batteries fallen out.


Drop the remote on a wooden floor.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

PJO1966 said:


> Thanks! I went through and filled out the survey. I should have known that someone here would know more than your average TiVo employee (no offense to our active TiVo employees here!)


I seem to remember an online site for indicating interest, but that was years ago and who knows if it's still around. This may be the new way.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Mikeguy said:


> I just found my earlier email from TiVo Research Group at TiVo HQ in San Jose, from a month ago.
> The link takes you to:
> 
> A bit different from TiVo beta-testing, but heading in that direction. The link: https://advisors.tivo.com/wix/3/p3088231853.aspx?r=480&s=DUQMEDMU.


Thanks Mike! The link works best like this: https://advisors.tivo.com/wix/3/p3088231853.aspx


----------



## ric hardt (Jan 9, 2019)

Great news. I'd like to see some sort of release on details as to whether it will work with Roamio + Tivo Stream and if there are any limitations compared to Bolt? Not to go off topic but can a Tivo stream output 720p or 1080p?


----------



## longrider (Oct 26, 2017)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Thanks Mike! The link works best like this: https://advisors.tivo.com/wix/3/p3088231853.aspx


I second using this link. I tried with the first link and after completing the survey I got a message "you have already completed the survey" Using this link I got "thank you for signing up"


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

keenanSR said:


> There shouldn't be any issue with wireless, streaming a 20 Mb/s stream is child's play nowadays. I've streamed full bitrate UHD rips over wifi. Years ago it may have been a problem, but I don't see it being a problem today.


This is not my intention to hijack this thread, but a lot of members use routers over 10 years old. Good enough for service connections and Stream. If you say "ac", they will look at the wall outlet.


----------



## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

--


----------



## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

JoeKustra said:


> This is not my intention to hijack this thread, but a lot of members use routers over 10 years old. Good enough for service connections and Stream. If you say "ac", they will look at the wall outlet.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Thanks Mike! The link works best like this: https://advisors.tivo.com/wix/3/p3088231853.aspx





longrider said:


> I second using this link. I tried with the first link and after completing the survey I got a message "you have already completed the survey" Using this link I got "thank you for signing up"


Thanks for the addition. I had just copied the link from the first page of the survey which said, feel free to pass this link on to others who may be interested--perhaps there is something personal to my account there--


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

keenanSR said:


> There shouldn't be any issue with wireless, streaming a 20 Mb/s stream is child's play nowadays. I've streamed full bitrate UHD rips over wifi.


How many simultaneous streams?


----------



## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

Fofer said:


> I've had about 10 TiVo remotes through the years and not once have any batteries fallen out.


Sensei speaks: "Fofer honors us with his presence, 10 Tivo remotes and no batteries fallen out ! He has achieved remote mastery, learn from him !/ "Yes Sensei !"/"Repeat !"/"Yes Sensei !"


----------



## mrsean (May 15, 2006)

We're finally getting the app we were promised 2 years ago. Yay!

I hope these apps and the Verizon partnership aren't the only things they announce.


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

For a second there, I thought Verizon was actually using TiVo on FiOS, and I was like "WTF?", and then I realized it's just a glorified guide data deal.

The wireless TiVo Mini adapter is going to be great for MSOs who want to do wireless installations to compete with DirecTV, AT&T/Frontier and others.


----------



## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

ric hardt said:


> Couldn't someone at CES just stop by booth...


I'm at CES but no thanks. They don't have a booth but rather a large meeting room that WAY out of the way (nowhere near or at LVCC or Sands) and I believe is private/invite only.

Will TiVo announce any new units at the consumer electronics show this year?


----------



## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

CES 2019.

TiVo will launch apps for Roku, Apple TV, and Fire TV later this year


----------



## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

tommiet said:


> CES 2019.
> 
> TiVo will launch apps for Roku, Apple TV, and Fire TV later this year


We have heard fantastic TiVo claims in the past only top be disappointed time after time.


----------



## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

Sparky1234 said:


> We have heard fantastic TiVo claims in the past only to be disappointed time after time.


Yeah... They "TALKED" about it... showed nothing. Should have waited until 2020 SEC to show the devices. I think this was an unscheduled announcement after 2 new OTA DVR's are here NOW. 
I like my TIVO and it's far better than any DVR my cable company can provide, but I do believe TIVO can see the end coming... TIVO patents and rights will be the last TIVO sale.


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

I'm assuming this will require either a Stream, Roamio Plus/Pro or Bolt to work and the source will be transcoded (so not the original quality).

Scott


----------



## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

That is the understanding from all of the other threads.


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

keenanSR said:


> Yes, I suppose developing for the lowest common denominator is what they'll have to do, it's just a shame that more capable devices like the Apple TV will end up with a lower quality video/audio stream as a result.


Well and you're also limited to what the transcoding capabilities are for the Stream (assuming it works with that) and the Bolt are.

Scott


----------



## tivoknucklehead (Dec 12, 2002)

good first step, but it needs slingbox functionality to let you watch your tivo recordings OUTSIDE your home


----------



## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

tivoknucklehead said:


> good first step, but it needs slingbox functionality to let you watch your tivo recordings OUTSIDE your home


If you have the TiVo models that will support these apps, you can already stream recordings outside your home with the TiVo app for iOS or Android, or through TiVo Online to a PC or Mac. What this adds is support for popular streaming devices and, reportedly, streaming of live TV without first starting a recording.


----------



## DigitalDawn (Apr 26, 2009)

What about commercial skip and 30 second skip on these devices?


----------



## convergent (Jan 4, 2007)

My guess is that the experience won't be as good as a Tivo Mini. I recently switched to Spectrum and have their new DVR box which also has a Roku app. While the Roku app has very similar functionality to one of their DVRs, there are a enough rough edges to make it a lesser experience. For one thing, you have to wait for it to load every time you switch to the Spectrum app, vs. just changing input. Also, because the Roku has a small number of buttons on its remote, the remote experience isn't nearly as rich as using the Spectrum DVR directly. Given how inexpensive a Mini is, I'd certainly use those instead. But, they could do better... time will tell.


----------



## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

years late. Sad that it took this long, after I already moved on from Tivo. Came to see what others who still had Tivos thought.


----------



## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

convergent said:


> My guess is that the experience won't be as good as a Tivo Mini. I recently switched to Spectrum and have their new DVR box which also has a Roku app. While the Roku app has very similar functionality to one of their DVRs, there are a enough rough edges to make it a lesser experience. For one thing, you have to wait for it to load every time you switch to the Spectrum app, vs. just changing input. Also, because the Roku has a small number of buttons on its remote, the remote experience isn't nearly as rich as using the Spectrum DVR directly. Given how inexpensive a Mini is, I'd certainly use those instead. But, they could do better... time will tell.


Tivo Minis cost $150. A Fire Stick costs $39. Per room, this adds up.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

This has been discussed extensively in the CES 2019 thread, where @davezatz has shared a video of the new apps in action:

Any Tivo CES 2019 news? < jump to post


----------



## tivoknucklehead (Dec 12, 2002)

Diana Collins said:


> If you have the TiVo models that will support these apps, you can already stream recordings outside your home with the TiVo app for iOS or Android, or through TiVo Online to a PC or Mac. What this adds is support for popular streaming devices and, reportedly, streaming of live TV without first starting a recording.


true, but I want to be able to watch my remote tivo on my big screen tv. now I have to use my discontinued slingbox to do this


----------



## stile99 (Feb 27, 2002)

jrtroo said:


> That is the understanding from all of the other threads.


IKR? How many CES threads do we need?


----------



## nyjklein (Aug 8, 2002)

stile99 said:


> IKR? How many CES threads do we need?


This being TCF, I'd say a minimum of 25


----------



## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

b_scott said:


> years late. Sad that it took this long, after I already moved on from Tivo. Came to see what others who still had Tivos thought.


Too late for me too - almost. Already switched to Recast. But if these apps can do everything a Mini can, I'd look at switching back in order to get commercial skip and quick mode.


----------



## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

tommiet said:


> Yeah... They "TALKED" about it... showed nothing. Should have waited until 2020 SEC to show the devices. I think this was an unscheduled announcement after 2 new OTA DVR's are here NOW.
> I like my TIVO and it's far better than any DVR my cable company can provide, but I do believe TIVO can see the end coming... TIVO patents and rights will be the last TIVO sale.


I like TiVo and have been around it for awhile.


----------



## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

stile99 said:


> IKR? How many CES threads do we need?


How many do you need to read?


----------



## obeythelaw2004 (Oct 27, 2013)

The video I saw of it at the CES this month looks great. It seems very responsive. The fact that you would be able to use a Roku, Fire stick or Apple TV and watch Live TV on any TV along with recordings is a game changer. Most people I know have at least one each of these devices in the home. I guess Tivo could build in a limit to how many streams can access the app, but this would let me have access to live TV in spots of a home where I don't have coax.


----------



## Yamboo31 (Nov 23, 2016)

Anybody would would like a Preview of the Fire tv version of this app, it can be download on apptoid. Look for Tivo (Version 4.2.1)

TiVo 4.2.1-1200957 Download APK for Android - Aptoide


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Some interesting commentary follow-up:


> *Dave Zatz*
> January 9, 2019 at 7:49 pm
> 
> Joe, yeah, if TiVo says mid-year, mark your calendar for winter.  . . .
> ...





> > *James*
> > January 10, 2019 at 5:48 am
> >
> > I haven't had a great experience with TiVo's existing Android app using the TiVo Stream functionality built-in to the Roamio Plus. Even on my local WiFi network, the UI and controls are sluggish, and I often encounter momentary pauses in the stream. The video quality is often noticeably inferior to what I got with a Hava. I find it tolerable for watching recorded shows when not in front of my TV, but I definitely prefer using a Mini.
> ...


TiVo To Bring Live Television and DVR Recordings to Apple TV, Roku, Fire TV


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

tivoknucklehead said:


> good first step, but it needs slingbox functionality to let you watch your tivo recordings OUTSIDE your home





Diana Collins said:


> If you have the TiVo models that will support these apps, you can already stream recordings outside your home with the TiVo app for iOS or Android, or through TiVo Online to a PC or Mac. What this adds is support for popular streaming devices and, reportedly, streaming of live TV without first starting a recording.


A big differentiator too for some folks is that some cable companies (like Spectrum, previously Spectrum Time Warner, previously Time Warner) seriously cripple this functionality by setting the CC flag on all non-local recordings, which means the TiVo *cannot* stream these outside their home. The Slingbox works around this, via "the analog hole." Of course it's a different user experience and the quality might not be as good... but at least it works with any and all content the TiVo can output.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Bigg said:


> The wireless TiVo Mini adapter is going to be great for MSOs who want to do wireless installations to compete with DirecTV, AT&T/Frontier and others.


As well as for those of us with wire-challenged homes. 

Having said that: will this mark any real difference (apart from, perhaps, ease of adoption) to what can be done currently, attaching a current WiFi bridge to a Mini, including as forum members such as @JoeKustra have discussed?


----------



## smark (Nov 20, 2002)

Mikeguy said:


> As well as for those of us with wire-challenged homes.
> 
> Having said that: will this mark any real difference (apart from, perhaps, ease of adoption) to what can be done currently, attaching a current WiFi bridge to a Mini, including as forum members such as @JoeKustra have discussed?


Reduction of power outlet usage, probably lower power than a bridge. Of course a bridge allows you to hook up other items that may be in your entertainment center as well.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

DigitalDawn said:


> What about commercial skip and 30 second skip on these devices?





mdavej said:


> Too late for me too - almost. Already switched to Recast. But if these apps can do everything a Mini can, I'd look at switching back in order to get commercial skip and quick mode.


From comments I've been reading, it seems that SkipMode and QuickMode might be/would be absent, at least to start.


Diana Collins said:


> If you have the TiVo models that will support these apps, you can already stream recordings outside your home with the TiVo app for iOS or Android, or through TiVo Online to a PC or Mac. What this adds is support for popular streaming devices and, reportedly, streaming of live TV without first starting a recording.


Does OOH streaming to a PC/Mac through TiVo Online currently work? I know that there have been limited past scattered reports of success, but it's never worked for me when I've tried.
​


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tivoknucklehead said:


> good first step, but it needs slingbox functionality to let you watch your tivo recordings OUTSIDE your home


"needs" is overstating it. I expect most customers would welcome these apps sans remote network functionality, however great an addition that would be.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Mikeguy said:


> As well as for those of us with wire-challenged homes.
> Having said that: will this mark any real difference (apart from, perhaps, ease of adoption) to what can be done currently, attaching a current WiFi bridge to a Mini, including as forum members such as @JoeKustra have discussed?


Any speculation will be..... speculation. As I posted, I'll buy one and compare it to the other five I use. I never use my wireless N or G adapters from TiVo since I can't remember where I put them. I'm old.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

krkaufman said:


> "needs" is overstating it. I expect most customers would welcome these apps sans remote network functionality, however great an addition that would be.


Outside my home I'd just use my iPad, and optionally AirPlay it to a TV, wherever I may be.


----------



## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Yamboo31 said:


> Anybody would would like a Preview of the Fire tv version of this app, it can be download on apptoid. Look for Tivo (Version 4.2.1)


That looks like the current android phone app, not the CES version we're talking about. Have you tried it?


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

keenanSR said:


> There shouldn't be any issue with wireless, streaming a 20 Mb/s stream is child's play nowadays. I've streamed full bitrate UHD rips over wifi. Years ago it may have been a problem, but I don't see it being a problem today.


It can be when the majority of people don't have properly setup wifi networks.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Fofer said:


> I've had about 10 TiVo remotes through the years and not once have any batteries fallen out.


The same here with the 35+ TiVo remotes I've owned since 2001. I've never had an issue with batteries falling out.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Mikeguy said:


> From comments I've been reading, it seems that SkipMode and QuickMode might be/would be absent, at least to start.
> 
> Does OOH streaming to a PC/Mac through TiVo Online currently work? I know that there have been limited past scattered reports of success, but it's never worked for me when I've tried.
> ​


No. OOH streaming does not work with TiVo online from a web browser. I just tried it and a message pops up saying that out of home streaming is not supported. But I've had no problems streaming OOH from my Android tablets and Android cell phone.


----------



## tivoknucklehead (Dec 12, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> "needs" is overstating it. I expect most customers would welcome these apps sans remote network functionality, however great an addition that would be.


the reason I say "needs" is because slingbox is a great discontinued product with nothing else on the market that replaces what it does. I'm afraid when my slingboxes die I will be out of luck


----------



## tivoknucklehead (Dec 12, 2002)

Fofer said:


> Outside my home I'd just use my iPad, and optionally AirPlay it to a TV, wherever I may be.


hmm, I have never tried this. was not aware that the tivo ios app has airplay abilities


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> The same here with the 35+ TiVo remotes I've owned since 2001. I've never had an issue with batteries falling out.


35 remotes? You running a contraband ring there?


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tivoknucklehead said:


> the reason I say "needs" is because slingbox is a great discontinued product with nothing else on the market that replaces what it does. I'm afraid when my slingboxes die I will be out of luck


I understand that you "need" that functionality, but the TiVo streaming apps don't ... for them to be of significant value for in-home use. (perfect yadda yadda good)


----------



## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

krkaufman said:


> How many simultaneous streams?


I see your point, the lowest common denominator problem again. Plus, I'm sure there a large portion of users who are still using 100mb Ethernet though theoretically that should be enough for 3, maybe 4 full bitrate streams. If you're are a Comcast sub the only channels above 4mb/s anyway are the locals, everything else has been crushed down to 4mb/s 720p AVC streams.


----------



## OrangeCrush (Feb 18, 2016)

smark said:


> Reduction of power outlet usage, probably lower power than a bridge. Of course a bridge allows you to hook up other items that may be in your entertainment center as well.


The bridge I use is a "nano-router" powered off the Tivo mini's USB port.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

tivoknucklehead said:


> hmm, I have never tried this. was not aware that the tivo ios app has airplay abilities


It wasn't "built in" to the app when I tried it, but I do know for a fact that iOS' full-screen mirroring did the trick for me. Perhaps that's changed with more recent updates...?


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

OrangeCrush said:


> The bridge I use is a "nano-router" powered off the Tivo mini's USB port.


Got a link to that? Sounds cool.


----------



## JayMan747 (Nov 10, 2008)

davezatz said:


> Yes, there's a dongle. We'll get to that. But this is what you really want to see. Thanks to @TiVo_Ted for sharing!


There's a Caavo in that demo... have (or will) they announce "deeper" integration between Tivo & Caavo?


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

keenanSR said:


> If you're are a Comcast sub the only channels above 4mb/s anyway are the locals, everything else has been crushed down to 4mb/s 720p AVC streams.


Heh, I'm sure it won't happen, but it *would* be a nice bonus if TiVo were to go the hybrid route and allow direct streaming to the TiVo streaming player app for compatible MP4 videos (i.e. bypassing the transcoding and its associated limits).


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

OrangeCrush said:


> The bridge I use is a "nano-router" powered off the Tivo mini's USB port.


Brand/model #s for proven components always welcome.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JayMan747 said:


> There's a Caavo in that demo... have (or will) they announce "deeper" integration between Tivo & Caavo?


Easy input switching


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Yes, the Caavo is an excellent 4K/HDR HDMI switcher (I have one) but the deeper integration Jayman is referring to (searchability, deep links to content, etc.) is an entirely different topic.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

This article claims:

-no 5.1 audio
-no commercial skip (at least at launch)
-the apps will also work *outside the home*

CES 2019: TiVo app will soon let you watch live TV on Apple TV&#8230;even on the road

Also says: requires a TiVo Bolt. Roamios need not apply? AAAAnnnd there's the bombshell disappointment they always end up dropping. Always! Damn you, TiVo.

/shakes fist


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Fofer said:


> Also says: requires a TiVo Bolt. Roamios need not apply?


Eh, I'll wait to hear directly from TiVo. This guy doesn't really seem up on TiVo (no mention of concurrent stream limit, out-of-home copy-protection prohibitions, etc), and his article didn't communicate an explicit exclusion for the Stream or Roamio Plus|Pro, so I'm not going to panic, yet. I figure he may have just been echoing TiVo marketing who would have been pushing the currently available hardware.

Fingers crossed.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> Brand/model #s for proven components always welcome.


I think Zatz just posted a link to one yesterday if you look at his posts should see it.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Fofer said:


> This article claims:
> 
> -no 5.1 audio
> -no commercial skip (at least at launch)
> ...


I wouldn't bank on a Bolt restriction yet. I'd still like to hear something from TiVo/@TiVo_Ted themselves.  But the earlier word from Dave Zatz at his site, who has been providing the base info. (and who has seemed to be a source for other articles):


> Should be native to Roamio Pro/Plus and all Bolts. I assume other Roamios with discontinued Stream accessory may also take part, but not confirmed.


----------



## tivoknucklehead (Dec 12, 2002)

Fofer said:


> This article claims:
> 
> -no 5.1 audio
> -no commercial skip (at least at launch)
> ...


YES, so it will have remote ability? this is exactly what I want to replace my slingboxes


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

And further news from Dave Zatz on the previously-pictured, upcoming Mini wireless adapter:

*TiVo Mini Wireless Adapter Slated For Midyear Release @ $60*









​It's nice to see TiVo's continuing dedication and support. As well as, a first official TiVo confirmation (well, via Dave Zatz for now) of Mini wireless capability.


----------



## NYHeel (Oct 7, 2003)

Fofer said:


> Outside my home I'd just use my iPad, and optionally AirPlay it to a TV, wherever I may be.


I don't bring an AppleTV when I travel because they can't be setup with hotel wifi (at least as of a few years ago). On the other hand, a Fire TV stick has a built in browser that allows it to be connect to hotel WiFi. Getting a TiVo app for the Fire stick would be a nice improvement to my business travel experience.

I don't really care about in home use since I already have a Mini.


aaronwt said:


> The same here with the 35+ TiVo remotes I've owned since 2001. I've never had an issue with batteries falling out.


If you drop a TiVo remote on a hard wood floor the battery cover and the batteries frequently fall out. If you have kids that like to drop remotes or you leave the remote on a couch you figure this out pretty quickly. Heck, my battery cover is actually broken as a small piece of plastic cracked from the side on one of its many fall to the ground. This is a slide Pro remote. If you have carpet or if you don't drop the remote then it won't be much of an issue for you.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Mikeguy said:


> And further news from Dave Zatz on the previously-pictured, upcoming Mini wireless adapter:
> It's nice to see TiVo's continuing dedication and support. As well as, a first official TiVo confirmation (well, via Dave Zatz for now) of Mini wireless capability. ​


​No fingerprints either. That's hard.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

NYHeel said:


> I don't bring an AppleTV when I travel because they can't be setup with hotel wifi (at least as of a few years ago). On the other hand, a Fire TV stick has a built in browser that allows it to be connect to hotel WiFi. Getting a TiVo app for the Fire stick would be a nice improvement to my business travel experience.


After a lot of experimenting, I've settled on a small Roku for travel. Not the stick. I can't remember what it is called. I think it is the premiere or premiere+

Most reliable connection at the hotels I go to.


----------



## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Fofer said:


> -no commercial skip (at least at launch)


Dealbreaker. I may get the new Tablo Quad tuner when it comes out after all and can temporarily put the TiVo on mothballs until they figure that out.

That reminds me, I have some recently purchased but unused home theater equipment to sell.


----------



## webcrawlr (Mar 4, 2004)

What am I missing re: the tivo wireless adapter? There's plenty of AC capable bridges out there already. The TP-Link AC750 is AC, available for nearly 2 years and is $35.00. Simplicity?


----------



## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

Mikeguy said:


> And further news from Dave Zatz on the previously-pictured, upcoming Mini wireless adapter:
> TiVo Mini Wireless Adapter Slated For Midyear Release @ $60​It's nice to see TiVo's continuing dedication and support. As well as, a first official TiVo confirmation (well, via Dave Zatz for now) of Mini wireless capability.



Noticed this late last night but decided to let Zatz announce first.

*TiVo Announces WiFi Adaptor for TiVo Mini*

"The new USB adaptor will allow a TiVo Mini to connect to a base TiVo unit using your home Wi-Fi. *If you have a TiVo Bolt, the adaptor will wirelessly connect the TiVo Mini directly to your TiVo without even using your network.*"

Expected 2nd quarter 2019.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Also doesn't require its own power supply, it appears?


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

webcrawlr said:


> What am I missing re: the tivo wireless adapter? There's plenty of AC capable bridges out there already. The TP-Link AC750 is AC, available for nearly 2 years and is $35.00. *Simplicity*?


I think that's part of it, as well as a "proven," compatible solution from TiVo's end (but we'll have to see about that). But also, this would be TiVo's first endorsement of wireless for the Mini--wow.

(Having said all that, I do see your point--and its price-savings.)


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

CloudAtlas said:


> Noticed this late last night but decided to let Zatz announce first.
> 
> *TiVo Announces WiFi Adaptor for TiVo Mini*
> 
> ...


Now, _that's _way interesting: "If you have a TiVo Bolt, the adaptor will wirelessly connect the TiVo Mini directly to your TiVo without even using your network." And so, no reliance on one's router and its possible tech. limitations (e.g. people still on "N" routers)? :thumbsup:


----------



## eherberg (Feb 17, 2011)

Mikeguy said:


> And so, no reliance on one's router and its possible tech. limitations (e.g. people still on "N" routers)


I suspect you're correct and that it has it's own ac component. For me - 'N' routers aren't necessarily the problem. I push a lot of HD video around my network (including mpeg2) through my N router with no hiccups. But I've made sure I've got superb coverage where my devices are also. Other's may not have put as much thought into the coverage area they need to accommodate.


----------



## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

Mikeguy said:


> Now, _that's _way interesting: "If you have a TiVo Bolt, the adaptor will wirelessly connect the TiVo Mini directly to your TiVo without even using your network." And so, no reliance on one's router and its possible tech. limitations (e.g. people still on "N" routers)? :thumbsup:


Clearly this is aimed at TiVo's cable partners who want a simple, low-cost, and reliable multi-room solution. One WiFi dongle, one Mini Vox, and one power cord. No running MoCA or Ethernet wires or dealing with the WiFi router. So Apple like.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

NYHeel said:


> I don't bring an AppleTV when I travel because they can't be setup with hotel wifi (at least as of a few years ago). On the other hand, a Fire TV stick has a built in browser that allows it to be connect to hotel WiFi. Getting a TiVo app for the Fire stick would be a nice improvement to my business travel experience.
> 
> I don't really care about in home use since I already have a Mini.
> 
> If you drop a TiVo remote on a hard wood floor the battery cover and the batteries frequently fall out. If you have kids that like to drop remotes or you leave the remote on a couch you figure this out pretty quickly. Heck, my battery cover is actually broken as a small piece of plastic cracked from the side on one of its many fall to the ground. This is a slide Pro remote. If you have carpet or if you don't drop the remote then it won't be much of an issue for you.


I see. I don't drop my remotes. Well I guess I have dropped some over the last forty years. But I could count on one hand the number of times I've done it.
That would be a pain if someone kept dropping them.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> After a lot of experimenting, I've settled on a small Roku for travel. Not the stick. I can't remember what it is called. I think it is the premiere or premiere+
> 
> Most reliable connection at the hotels I go to.


I like using one of the Roku Sticks. Very small, easy to carry, and just as fast as the larger Rokus. I guess I will certainly make things easier with a TiVo app. Only I'm not using my TiVos much any more. They should have done this a long time ago.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

CloudAtlas said:


> Clearly this is aimed at TiVo's cable partners who want a simple, low-cost, and reliable multi-room solution. One WiFi dongle, one Mini Vox, and one power cord. No running MoCA or Ethernet wires or dealing with the WiFi router. So Apple like.


While serving individual users as well, who might have pre-coax home wiring or just want TiVo capability in a room not currently wired. A potential 1-2-3-done solution, no MoCA pedigree required (perhaps the connection experts here will get some time off). Presumably, this could assist TiVo tech. support as well--I wonder if TiVo support, rather than trying to suss out MoCA connection issues (does it do that nowadays?), might just recommend the purchase of a Mini wireless adapter instead, for its ease (and it's money in the bank for TiVo, besides).

Combined with TiVo via apps, more opportunities for TiVo and its users, and more meaningful competition.


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Tivo app on ATV! If it's great then I'd use it instead of the Mini on the same Tv. Save me the hassle of switching inputs all the time.


----------



## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

PJO1966 said:


> Dealbreaker. I may get the new Tablo Quad tuner when it comes out after all and can temporarily put the TiVo on mothballs until they figure that out.
> 
> That reminds me, I have some recently purchased but unused home theater equipment to sell.


I just read that Tablo doesn't allow you to see images when you're FFing through a live recording. Crap.


----------



## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

DigitalDawn said:


> What about commercial skip and 30 second skip on these devices?


That would be sweet!!!


----------



## dslunceford (Oct 19, 2000)

cwoody222 said:


> I have a FireTV Cube hooked up to a tv that also has a first gen Mini. The Mini is fine for TiVo functions but the apps are horrible to use. So I have to switch inputs for my streaming apps.
> 
> If I can integrate TiVo into my FireTV UI without giving up too much, I would.
> 
> I'm looking forward to testing this side-by-side before I possibly remove my Mini.


This. Bought a Roku TV for family room and switch back and forth for apps.

Also use a Roku stick when traveling, so will be nice to have access on the road (beyond phone/laptop).


----------



## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

trip1eX said:


> Tivo app on ATV! If it's great then I'd use it instead of the Mini on the same Tv. Save me the hassle of switching inputs all the time.


Rumor has it CEC is coming to the minis. If so, that might solve your problem, assuming your TV supports HDMI control.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

webcrawlr said:


> What am I missing re: the tivo wireless adapter? There's plenty of AC capable bridges out there already. The TP-Link AC750 is AC, available for nearly 2 years and is $35.00. Simplicity?


Yes, there are many wireless bridges that can be used with a TiVo. But I don't know of any, except the wireless G, that are USB powered and configured.

Also, since it works without WiFi with a Bolt, is there some MoCA magic used?


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> Also, since it works without WiFi with a Bolt, is there some MoCA magic used?


I'm assuming this adapter would communicate directly with the BOLT's built-in AC. So, yeah, it's possible the BOLT may be updated with the ability Ira Bahr said their engineers were looking into, the ability to bridge between wireless and MoCA or Ethernet. (link)


----------



## stile99 (Feb 27, 2002)

JoeKustra said:


> Yes, there are many wireless bridges that can be used with a TiVo. But I don't know of any, except the wireless G, that are USB powered and configured.
> 
> Also, since it works without WiFi with a Bolt, is there some MoCA magic used?


Does it? I guess I didn't follow it closely enough, but my first thought when I read "doesn't use your network" was "oh great, an ad-hoc network, hope it's at least smart enough to use a different channel".


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> I'm assuming this adapter would communicate directly with the BOLT's built-in AC. So, yeah, it's possible the BOLT may be updated with the ability Ira Bahr said their engineers were looking into, the ability to bridge between wireless and MoCA or Ethernet. (link)


It does appear that that Mini in the photo has no coax connected. That could mean the photo is just marketing fluff. It could also mean the A95 can't use that new adapter. It does mean that I should just shut up and wait until I get one and stop speculation.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> just shut up and wait until I get one and stop speculation.


TiVo would be a mighty quiet place were that the road most traveled.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Steve said:


> Rumor has it CEC is coming to the minis. If so, that might solve your problem, assuming your TV supports HDMI control.


Yes, but rumor also has it that the host device and the TiVo mini will need to be on Hydra (TiVo Experience 4) for this to work.


----------



## rdrrepair (Nov 24, 2006)

Fofer said:


> Yes, but rumor also has it that the host device and the TiVo mini will need to be on Hydra (TiVo Experience 4) for this to work.


 Currently, CEC only works on TE4. The word from @TiVo_Ted is that most new features with all the bells and whistles will only be geared now for TE4. I was surprisingly pleased when they gave Premiere owners, like myself, SkipMode. So, who knows? My current understanding is that the Premiere line processors can't handle TE4.

If you want cutting edge, you'll probably have to upgrade to TE4 sometime in the future on your Roamio or Bolt. I'd bet that trending forward more TE3 users will upgrade to TE4 if they keep upgrading and adding additional features. TE4 is actually pretty decent with more to come soon.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

JoeKustra said:


> Yes, there are many wireless bridges that can be used with a TiVo. But I don't know of any, except the wireless G, that are USB powered and configured.
> 
> Also, since it works without WiFi with a Bolt, is there some MoCA magic used?


Many routers that can be put in AP mode can be used as a bridge. And of course Access points can be used as a Bridge. I have several wireless 5Ghz N Access points used as Bridges from 2009 that have no issue working with a Mini. Heck I can even stream a very high bitrate UHD BD rip over them with zero issues.


----------



## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

JoeKustra said:


> Yes, there are many wireless bridges that can be used with a TiVo. But I don't know of any, except the wireless G, that are USB powered and configured.
> 
> *Also, since it works without WiFi with a Bolt, is there some MoCA magic used?*


Probably, the Bolts will support WiFi Direct (the same way a Roku WiFi remote pairs with a Roku).


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Diana Collins said:


> Probably, the Bolts will support WiFi Direct (the same way a Roku WiFi remote pairs with a Roku).


Diana, is that a good thing performance-wise? It sounds like it would be, including when dealing with a wider audience and then not having to rely on a variety of different routers and capabilities.


----------



## longrider (Oct 26, 2017)

DirecTV has been using a system like this in the HS17 Genie for a while now with no issues. I think it is a great idea to have your own dedicated network as this completely take your home network out of the equation. Any system like this has to be smart enough to analyze for things like open channels


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Steve said:


> Rumor has it CEC is coming to the minis. If so, that might solve your problem, assuming your TV supports HDMI control.


Current software on TE4 supports CEC: Tivo Customer Support Community


----------



## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

JoeKustra said:


> Current software on TE4 supports CEC: Tivo Customer Support Community


In spite of what that says, there is no CEC on the Mini.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Fofer said:


> I've had about 10 TiVo remotes through the years and not once have any batteries fallen out.


Happens all the time on the slide pro. If it falls off the couch, onto my carpeted floor, the battery door pops off and the batteries fly out. I use to set it next to me on the couch so this happened a lot, but we got new furniture a few months back and now I have an end table on my side so I just set it there instead.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

mdavej said:


> In spite of what that says, there is no CEC on the Mini.


Interesting. Here's one item on the Mini VOX that I dislike and can not be controlled. I put the Mini into Standby when I'm going to use the A93 Mini next to it. I have to wait for the LED to go out before I power off the TV. Seems a TV command stops the Standby on the Mini. This was changed in RC2 also.


----------



## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

Mikeguy said:


> Diana, is that a good thing performance-wise? It sounds like it would be, including when dealing with a wider audience and then not having to rely on a variety of different routers and capabilities.


WiFi Direct really just covers the establishment of the connection. The connections use WPA2, so they are secure and it works on both 2.4 and 5 GHz networks. For an overview of WiFi Direct see: Wi-Fi Direct | Wi-Fi Alliance

As mentioned above, DirecTV has used a similar approach of creating a P2P connection between DVR and Mini over WiFi (5GHz) which has been relatively reliable for them.


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Wifi Direct or a version of it was used in the Nintendo Wii U to beam the game to the wireless gamePad from the console and it worked awesome but had a ~25 ft limitation. Basically the Gamepad had to be used in the same room.

However this requirement was for a console that came out in 2012 and probably wasn't wireless AC. Also games need a better (more responsive aka low latency) wifi connection than video would need because video can be buffered while games need real time feedback from controller to host device and back. IN other words the latency one will put up with when watching video is greater than the latency one would put up with when playing a game.


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Steve said:


> Rumor has it CEC is coming to the minis. If so, that might solve your problem, assuming your TV supports HDMI control.


Coming to all past Minis? OR just new Minis? I figured old hardware could not be updated to HDMI CEC. I always figured that was a hardware feature I guess. But maybe not? Or maybe only on one end?

and Yeah my TV does support CEC at least the one I'm using. There is Nintendo Switch hooked up to it and an Apple TV in addition to a Tivo Mini. ONly the Mini doesn't auto switch inputs.


----------



## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

rdrrepair said:


> I'd bet that trending forward more TE3 users will upgrade to TE4 if they keep upgrading and adding additional features. TE4 is actually pretty decent with more to come soon.


All it would take to get me to upgrade to TE4 is to add the TE3 features that are missing.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

tommiet said:


> TIVO patents and rights will be the last TIVO sale.


Most of TiVos patents are about to expire.

With CableCARD on it's last leg and no replacement in sight they're going to have to shift the retail portion of their business to OTA, or let it die. I don't think their MSO business it big enough to just let retail die so I fully expect them to embrace OTA and streaming and hope for the best. Maybe they can make a deal with a skinny bundle provider, like Silicone Dust did, and they can offer a cord cutter solution.


----------



## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

Lurker1 said:


> All it would take to get me to upgrade to TE4 is to add the TE3 features that are missing.


Ditto!


----------



## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

A couple of things confirmed at CES from Engadget.

App will be free.
Two streams to third party devices.
Data from Thuuz to extend recordings of sporting events that run long.

TiVo will add apps for smart TV boxes and WiFi for Mini this year


----------



## OrangeCrush (Feb 18, 2016)

Steve said:


> Rumor has it CEC is coming to the minis.


Got a source on that? I'm starting to consider some other options, but if this is likely to actually happen, I'll sit tight for a while before buying anything new.


----------



## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

> Are they getting any closer? What deal-breaker features are still missing?


STOP!!! What does this have to do with TiVO CES 2019?! There are enough TE3 Hydra threads that have beat that topic to death. It's really simple to create a new thread post.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

CloudAtlas said:


> STOP!!! What does this have to do with TiVO CES 2019?! There are enough TE3 Hydra threads that have beat that topic to death. It's really simple to create a new thread post.


The poster needs 20k posts to be number 1. Expect anything.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

My apologies. In all the excitement I lost track of where I was. Deleted the post. Carry on.


----------



## stile99 (Feb 27, 2002)

CloudAtlas said:


> STOP!!! What does this have to do with TiVO CES 2019?! There are enough TE3 Hydra threads that have beat that topic to death. It's really simple to create a new thread post.


I honestly thought it was either a rhetorical question or a really bad attempt at trolling. Like walking into a Star Wars convention and asking if it's possible to do the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs.


----------



## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

JoeKustra said:


> The poster needs 20k posts to be number 1. Expect anything.


Funny Scary  But funny


----------



## ric hardt (Jan 9, 2019)

Any details as to whether Roamio devices with Tivo Stream will work with new streaming apps? Anyone care to speculate if resolution (in network) will be any different different vs. Bolt?


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> It can be when the majority of people don't have properly setup wifi networks.


Sadly true. I can't count the number of times I've gotten single-digit Wi-Fi speeds in parts of people's houses, and then I go stand next to their router and they're got 50 or 100mbps cable or FiOS.



Dan203 said:


> With CableCARD on it's last leg and no replacement in sight they're going to have to shift the retail portion of their business to OTA, or let it die. I don't think their MSO business it big enough to just let retail die so I fully expect them to embrace OTA and streaming and hope for the best. Maybe they can make a deal with a skinny bundle provider, like Silicone Dust did, and they can offer a cord cutter solution.


Although the margins are lower, I thought TiVo had several times more MSO subs than retail? Nonetheless, on the retail side, that analysis is correct, I just hope they continue to do retail and don't just give up on it for the MSO market.


----------



## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

OrangeCrush said:


> Got a source on that? I'm starting to consider some other options, but if this is likely to actually happen, I'll sit tight for a while before buying anything new.


Wracking my brain right now. I know i read it somewhere. I've been searching TCF with no luck. Hopefully someone in the know will chime in.


----------



## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

So these new TiVo apps for Roku, Apple TV and Fire TV will all receive streams that have been transcoded into H.264 at 720p (for all HD channel content) or 480p (for all SD channel content), correct? I assume that's how the current iOS and Android mobile apps from TiVo work and I seem to recall Zatz saying these new apps would top out at 720p. I'm also guessing sound tops out at stereo...


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Steve said:


> Wracking my brain right now. I know i read it somewhere. I've been searching TCF with no luck. Hopefully someone in the know will chime in.


I recall seeing it mentioned on Dave Zatz's blog, zatznotfunny.com. (That it was in the pipeline.). And that it would require the Mini to be on Hydra, which means the host TiVo would obviously have to be on Hydra too. Resistance may soon be futile :-/


----------



## Jim1348 (Jan 3, 2015)

Joe3 said:


> ...WiFi for Mini this year...


I am glad to see this. I gather from reading the Engadget article that it will use existing Minis, but have an optional adapter.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Steve said:


> Wracking my brain right now. I know i read it somewhere. I've been searching TCF with no luck. Hopefully someone in the know will chime in.


This?
TiVo Needs Your Help


----------



## BBK (Jan 12, 2019)

Didn't see this mentioned anywhere else - article on the full TiVo platform implemented via Android TV.

Hands-on: Here's what TiVo's Android TV platform looks like, how it uses the operator tier


----------



## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

BBK said:


> Didn't see this mentioned anywhere else - article on the full TiVo platform implemented via Android TV.
> 
> Hands-on: Here's what TiVo's Android TV platform looks like, how it uses the operator tier


This next-gen TiVo platform on Android TV is being used -- or will be used (not sure if it's yet been deployed) -- by TDS Telecom, per their announcement back in July. At least in their case, it appears that the TiVo Android TV boxes they use are for IPTV, so they don't contain QAM tuners or a CableCARD, and only use network (i.e. cloud) DVR, so they don't contain hard drives.


----------



## steelersruleman (Aug 29, 2014)

ric hardt said:


> Any details as to whether Roamio devices with Tivo Stream will work with new streaming apps? Anyone care to speculate if resolution (in network) will be any different different vs. Bolt?


I second this question. I would guess that the new app will work with a TIVO Stream in the loop on your Network.

At least I hope so. I have a TIVO Stream(and older Mini) gathering dust in a drawer. So if this is true and it will work with a Roamio, then the TIVO Stream, at least, will have renewed life for me.


----------



## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

steelersruleman said:


> I second this question. I would guess that the new app will work with a TIVO Stream in the loop on your Network.
> 
> At least I hope so. I have a TIVO Stream(and older Mini) gathering dust in a drawer. So if this is true and it will work with a Roamio, then the TIVO Stream, at least, will have renewed life for me.


My TiVo Stream I purchased from WeakNees in 2015 is still chugging right along..


----------



## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

NashGuy said:


> This next-gen TiVo platform on Android TV is being used -- or will be used (not sure if it's yet been deployed) -- by TDS Telecom, per their announcement back in July. At least in their case, it appears that the TiVo Android TV boxes they use are for IPTV, so they don't contain QAM tuners or a CableCARD, and only use network (i.e. cloud) DVR, so they don't contain hard drives.


So when things go south we get scream at Google ? Oh imagine the threads we'll see


----------



## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

So do we have any specific confirmation that you need a Bolt to use the new app on firetv, roku or apple tv? What about the wifi adapter?


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

tim_m said:


> So do we have any specific confirmation that you need a Bolt to use the new app on firetv, roku or apple tv? What about the wifi adapter?


With the WiFi adapter, seemingly no (although we don't really have specific confirmations at this point): one of the reports states, "If you have a TiVo Bolt, the adaptor will wirelessly connect the TiVo Mini directly to your TiVo without even using your network"--suggesting that Roamio use through your pre-existing home network is an option as well.


----------



## OrangeCrush (Feb 18, 2016)

Yamboo31 said:


> Anybody would would like a Preview of the Fire tv version of this app, it can be download on apptoid. Look for Tivo (Version 4.2.1)
> 
> TiVo 4.2.1-1200957 Download APK for Android - Aptoide


Anyone successful getting this to work? I just get a stretched out login screen, but it wouldn't let me log in, kept saying my username/passwird were wrong.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

That's actually not the new app, or even a "preview" of it. It's an old beta of an old Android app meant for FireTV's. I had it installed for years, before I got rid of the FireTV.

And I wouldn't be surprised if it simply no longer works.


----------



## rdrrepair (Nov 24, 2006)

Fofer said:


> That's actually not the new app, or even a "preview" of it. It's an old beta of an old Android app meant for FireTV's. I had it installed for years, before I got rid of the FireTV.
> 
> And I wouldn't be surprised if it simply no longer works.


Hasn't worked for close to a year and a half now.

Problem logging in on Amazon Fire TV using TIVO stream app

Looks like we'll still have to wait another 3+ months...


----------



## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

Fofer said:


> I've had about 10 TiVo remotes through the years and not once have any batteries fallen out.


And I've dropped mine on hardwood floors...a lot and the batteries still are intact


----------



## samsauce29 (Nov 30, 2007)

Mikeguy said:


> With the WiFi adapter, seemingly no (although we don't really have specific confirmations at this point): one of the reports states, "If you have a TiVo Bolt, the adaptor will wirelessly connect the TiVo Mini directly to your TiVo without even using your network"--suggesting that Roamio use through your pre-existing home network is an option as well.


What I've seen says the WiFi adapter works with A95 Mini for sure, with A93 Mini probably, and with A92 Mini possibly.

The A92 is limited due to processing that takes place on the Mini itself and not on the adapter.


----------



## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

Mikeguy said:


> With the WiFi adapter, seemingly no (although we don't really have specific confirmations at this point): one of the reports states, "If you have a TiVo Bolt, the adaptor will wirelessly connect the TiVo Mini directly to your TiVo without even using your network"--suggesting that Roamio use through your pre-existing home network is an option as well.


Even if it had to connect through my network since I have a roamio that would be useful, certainly better then using a very long Ethernet cable.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

tim_m said:


> Even if it had to connect through my network since I have a roamio that would be useful, certainly better then using a very long Ethernet cable.


And my guess is, TiVo is aiming, at least in part, for you and me--people not able to (conveniently) make an Ethernet/MoCA connection, where we want to use a TiVo box. Especially where other products (e.g. Amazon Recast) don't need that. It potentially brings plug-'n-play convenience.


----------



## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

aaronwt said:


> The same here with the 35+ TiVo remotes I've owned since 2001. I've never had an issue with batteries falling out.


I haven't had 35+ TiVo remotes but I've never had an issue w/the batteries falling out either. I don't drop my remotes and if I do, it's almost always onto carpet.

I'd guess I've had maybe 8 TiVo remotes.


----------



## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

Mikeguy said:


> And my guess is, TiVo is aiming, at least in part, for you and me--people not able to (conveniently) make an Ethernet/MoCA connection, where we want to use a TiVo box. Especially where other products (e.g. Amazon Recast) don't need that. It potentially brings plug-'n-play convenience.


Yeah moca isn't possible at my current residence. I am mobile soon and it might be there but at least with this I'll have an alternative.


----------



## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

tim_m said:


> So do we have any specific confirmation that you need a Bolt to use the new app on firetv, roku or apple tv? What about the wifi adapter?


Why would the requirement for the TiVO app on upcoming new platforms be any different than the platforms it currently supports?

The TiVo app can be used with:

Any TiVo DVR (Note: Older TiVo boxes may require a TiVo Stream accessory for streaming and downloading)
Tivo App for iOS and Android


----------



## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

samsauce29 said:


> What I've seen says the WiFi adapter works with A95 Mini for sure, with A93 Mini probably, and with A92 Mini possibly.
> 
> The A92 is limited due to processing that takes place on the Mini itself and not on the adapter.


Both Mini TCDA92000 and TCDA93000 use the same SoC Broadcom BCM7418.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

CloudAtlas said:


> The TiVo app can be used with:
> 
> Any TiVo DVR (Note: Older TiVo boxes may require a TiVo Stream accessory for streaming and downloading)


Pretty sure mobile streaming is only available to Premiere and later models, with Premieres and 4-tuner Roamios requiring a Stream (or equivalent) on the home network.

Features such as live TV sans the need to start a recording, a difference from the current mobile app, make me wonder if the requirements will be different.


----------



## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

Mikeguy said:


> And my guess is, TiVo is aiming, at least in part, for you and me--people not able to (conveniently) make an Ethernet/MoCA connection, where we want to use a TiVo box. Especially where other products (e.g. Amazon Recast) don't need that. It potentially brings plug-'n-play convenience.


People who do not know about Powerline Adapters.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Powerline adapters are generally pretty terrible.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

wizwor said:


> People who do not know about Powerline Adapters.


Well, as well as, WiFi bridges. But a TiVo-based/specific solution potentially (hopefully) might help eliminate certain uncertainties/issues that "generic" Powerline and WiFi bridge adapter solutions from 3rd parties might have. As well as, from reports, the TiVo adapter has the potential to bridge from Mini to a Bolt box directly, without the need to connect to one's router's network, adding a potential further simplification/use efficiency/success vector.


----------



## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

Fofer said:


> Powerline adapters are generally pretty terrible.


In my experience, terrible Powerline adapters are generally pretty terrible. Good Powerline adapters are pretty good. When I sided my home, one of my goals was to minimize penetrations and wires running outside the house. The inexpensive Jet Bond adapters I first used were pretty terrible, but the TP-Link AV2000s that replaced them have been as good as wire.


Mikeguy said:


> TiVo-based/specific solution ...might help eliminate certain uncertainties/issues...the TiVo adapter has the potential to bridge from Mini to a Bolt box directly...


Here's to hoping TiVo gets security right and trains their support staff to support these things. Roku had a lot of trouble with their WiFi Direct implementation.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

wizwor said:


> In my experience, terrible Powerline adapters are generally pretty terrible. Good Powerline adapters are pretty good. When I sided my home, one of my goals was to minimize penetrations and wires running outside the house. The inexpensive Jet Bond adapters I first used were pretty terrible, but the TP-Link AV2000s that replaced them have been as good as wire.


Same here, I have had no issues with Powerline adapters over almost 8 years in multiple locations, name brands, good wiring, they just plain work, and far better than wifi in similar locations, that being said wifi mesh networks have a lot more potential now to be used instead.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

wizwor said:


> Here's to hoping TiVo gets security right and trains their support staff to support these things. Roku had a lot of trouble with their WiFi Direct implementation.


I guess part of what I see TiVo (and consumers) hoping is, support will be much easier with a Mini WiFi adpter than with MoCA implementation: just Plug-'n-Play.


----------



## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

Mikeguy said:


> I guess part of what I see TiVo (and consumers) hoping is, support will be much easier with a Mini WiFi adpter than with MoCA implementation: just Plug-'n-Play.


Nothing beats Plug-n-Play! I didn't realize that the Mini WiFi 5 adapter will still connect to the WiFi router even if it uses WiFi Direct (P2P) with the Bolt DVR. TiVO service connections and TiVO app remote access wil use WiFi. Now I understand how printers are able to allow printing via P2P directly to the printer and over WiFi.


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Fofer said:


> Powerline adapters are generally pretty terrible.


I'm getting 85mbps on mine right now, but in two other places they got 40mbps. YMMV. I have the AV500 ones. Mine are across the room from each other in a brand new building, so it's probably an ideal situation.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

When they work they’re fine. When they don’t they’re a nightmare. For me, when it comes to this stuff, overall reliability is even more important than raw speed. And in most cases I’ve seen, they are intermittent at best.


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Fofer said:


> When they work they're fine. When they don't they're a nightmare. For me, when it comes to this stuff, overall reliability is even more important than raw speed. And in most cases I've seen, they are intermittent at best.


You never know what the heck you're going to get when you install them, but once they're installed, they're usually really good. The only issue I ever had was that there was one appliance, I can't remember off the top of my head what it was, but it had a big motor, maybe a vacuum, juicer or popcorn maker, that would make them flake out and basically stop working due to interference in the electrical system, but it usually wasn't an issue for TiVo, as I couldn't hear the TV anyway when whatever it was turned on.


----------



## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

Fofer said:


> When they work they're fine. When they don't they're a nightmare. For me, when it comes to this stuff, overall reliability is even more important than raw speed. And in most cases I've seen, they are intermittent at best.


TiVo has a $60 wireless adapter for you!


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

The old Airport Express I have been using as a wireless bridge for 3 years now is working just fine


----------



## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

As does Google WiFi.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

I think I’ve decided that if my Roamio Pro isn’t supported by the new apps for AppleTV, Roku, etc. (and a Bolt is required instead) that I won’t be buying any new TiVo hardware. I’m just tired of the constant disappointments and am ready for something new.


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

wizwor said:


> People who do not know about Powerline Adapters.


That work sometimes and not others...


----------



## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

Did I understand what I saw in those videos? Appletv,TE4 and a 3rd platform are pretty much identical?


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Fofer said:


> I think I've decided that if my Roamio Pro isn't supported by the new apps for AppleTV, Roku, etc. (and a Bolt is required instead) that I won't be buying any new TiVo hardware. I'm just tired of the constant disappointments and am ready for something new.


My Minis are mothballed. After I got rid of cable, I found that I rarely ever used them. I'll bring one of them back when I get a house and have two main TV setups, but in the changing media landscape, I don't find the Mini to be as compelling of a product as it once was. If I end up getting a streaming service, that will work with Chromecast, which is what I've standardized all my TVs on. Only my main TV has Roku and TiVo for sit down entertainment.


----------



## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Fofer said:


> I think I've decided that if my Roamio Pro isn't supported by the new apps for AppleTV, Roku, etc. (and a Bolt is required instead) that I won't be buying any new TiVo hardware. I'm just tired of the constant disappointments and am ready for something new.


I'm happy with my new Bolt OTA and Mini. I haven't seen anything else that will let me see what I'm zipping through. I love the idea of the new Tablo feature that will automatically skip over commercials, but we still occasionally watch live programming and need to be able to timeshift and zip.


----------



## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

Fofer said:


> The old Airport Express I have been using as a wireless bridge for 3 years now is working just fine


Thanks for posting that. I just dusted off my old Airport Express and did the same thing. Works like a charm!

Not sure if it will support 4k at 2.4 Ghz, but I'm using it with an old mini connected component to a 720p display, so it's more than enough.


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Steve said:


> Not sure if it will support 4k at 2.4 Ghz, but I'm using it with an old mini connected component to a 720p display, so it's more than enough.


A few major market O&O OTA stations have bitrates as high as 17mbps, 4k video is encoded at 15.6 or 15.9mbps last time I checked (HDR might be a bit higher), and 4k streaming can buffer, whereas TiVo streaming cannot, so TiVo streaming can, in some situations, be harder/more demanding on a network than 4k streaming.

Everybody freaks out about 4k streaming, when, in fact, it's not that big of a deal. If you have a 25mbps internet connection, you can stream 4k just fine. I'm on a 30mbps cable connection now, and it works fine. I used to have 25mbps, and that worked fine too.


----------



## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

Fofer said:


> I think I've decided that if my Roamio Pro isn't supported by the new apps for AppleTV, Roku, etc. (and a Bolt is required instead) that I won't be buying any new TiVo hardware. I'm just tired of the constant disappointments and am ready for something new.


Same here. I have five Roamio/OTAs and a pair of Minis (via Powerline) and everything works just fine. I just bought a pair of disks to upgrade two of my Roamios. Much happiness. It would be nice if I could stream to my TCL Roku TVs, but there are a lot of nice things in my house I never use.


----------



## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Fofer said:


> I think I've decided that if my Roamio Pro isn't supported by the new apps for AppleTV, Roku, etc. (and a Bolt is required instead) that I won't be buying any new TiVo hardware. I'm just tired of the constant disappointments and am ready for something new.


What would you replace your Roamio Pro with, if not a Bolt? An HDHomeRun Prime network tuner? There's really not anything else out there that supports CableCARD, is there? And actually right now, you can't even buy a new HDHomeRun Prime. The old 3-tuner model has been discontinued and they're saying that a new 6-tuner model is "coming soon".

Of course, you could decide to ditch CableCARD altogether (which might not be a bad idea) and instead switch to the DVR hardware provided by a pay TV provider. Or switch to a streaming cable TV service with cloud DVR and use it with whatever streaming devices you like.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Or just something like Tablo. The truth is the bulk of what I record these days is from local channels. And I’m not even watching very much of it anymore.


----------



## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Fofer said:


> Or just something like Tablo. The truth is the bulk of what I record these days is from local channels. And I'm not even watching very much of it anymore.


Yeah. I'm happy with just free OTA plus various streaming services. And if you're looking for OTA DVR solutions, there are a lot more choices available than with CableCARD.

Like you, I find that there's less and less stuff from the broadcast networks that I really care about. The series I do care about from ABC, NBC and Fox (well, there aren't any I care about on Fox any more) are available on Hulu ad-free with better HD PQ. About the only series I watch on CBS is Life in Pieces. (And the entire season shows up pretty soon afterwards on Netflix and/or Hulu.)

But I do like to be able to DVR evening newscasts and Meet the Press from OTA channels. That stuff takes hours before its available on streaming and I like my news while it's still fresh.


----------



## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

mattyro7878 said:


> Did I understand what I saw in those videos? Appletv,TE4 and a 3rd platform are pretty much identical?


One of the design goals of TE4 was the ability to run on multiple platforms and not just on TiVO hardware like TE3.


----------



## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

CloudAtlas said:


> One of the design goals of TE4 was the ability to run on multiple platforms and not just on TiVO hardware like TE3.


Yep. It's pretty clear now, especially since they've essentially exited the hardware business, that TiVo sees itself as a platform-agnostic software and services company.


----------



## JayMan747 (Nov 10, 2008)

Fofer said:


> Yes, the Caavo is an excellent 4K/HDR HDMI switcher (I have one) but the deeper integration Jayman is referring to (searchability, deep links to content, etc.) is an entirely different topic.


I picked up one of these on BF for <$50, but have not connected it yet. What do you have it working with?
Planning to use it with TiVo (Bolt); Denon AVR-x4000 & (AppleTV or Shield).
Not sure how the Caavo remote will work with this setup, and what will I be losing - remote wise.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

JayMan747 said:


> I picked up one of these on BF for <$50, but have not connected it yet. What do you have it working with?
> Planning to use it with TiVo (Bolt); Denon AVR-x4000 & (AppleTV or Shield).
> Not sure how the Caavo remote will work with this setup, and what will I be losing - remote wise.


I have a TiVo Mini, AppleTV 4K, Sony PS4 Pro, Xbox One X on this Caavo. The TV is also plugged into a Sonos Beam Playbar.


----------



## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

Fofer said:


> I have a TiVo Mini, AppleTV 4K, Sony PS4 Pro, Xbox One X on this Caavo. The TV is also plugged into a Sonos Beam Playbar.


Had to lookup what a Caavo was as I assumed it was an HDMI switch but it's a Control Center box with HDMI inputs and remote. Looks promising. Anyway I noticed this on the website

"_We are currently working to upgrade our Tivo support to provide the ability to search and play DVR listings."_


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

For me it's the best 4K/HDR capable HDMI switcher in existence, giving me more 4K capable ports and a universal remote control, too. I don't use any of its search stuff. I do use its universal watch list though. And it controls my TiVo just fine via its IR blaster.


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

NashGuy said:


> But I do like to be able to DVR evening newscasts and Meet the Press from OTA channels. That stuff takes hours before its available on streaming and I like my news while it's still fresh.


MTP comes up pretty quickly as a podcast, with no commercials. Add in 1.2 or 1.3x playback, and it's a ~30 minute listen while I'm walking around or driving.


----------



## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

Is TiVo's New App The Beginning Or The End


----------



## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

Lurker1 said:


> Is TiVo's New App The Beginning Or The End


Thanks for sharing.

Couple of observations:

No mention of using the apps out of home, but the fact the apps are limited to 720p tells me it's a possibility.
Why would they be limited to 720p if on the home network? E.g, I've got a 2018 4k Sony Android TV. If I loaded the client app on it, I'd want to feed it native resolution, if possible.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

My favorite part of that article:
"The TiVo Bolt OTA is available now. The new TiVo Mini wifi adapter is coming in a few months and will cost $59.99 ($20 less than the current MOCA bridge). The TiVo app will be farther out - expect to see that at the end of the summer, maybe just before football season starts up again. Even better, it will be free to download, *you just need a Bolt* for the app to talk to."
Hmmmm.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Lurker1 said:


> Is TiVo's New App The Beginning Or The End


_"Speaking of football, I'll have some fun TiVo news coming up soon for all of you who enjoy the Big Game, but really are just here for the commercials. Stay tuned!"_​
This is "old news" This will be the 2nd year TiVo will have GameSKIP to show just the Super Bowl commercials


----------



## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

JoeKustra said:


> My favorite part of that article:
> "The TiVo Bolt OTA is available now. The new TiVo Mini wifi adapter is coming in a few months and will cost $59.99 ($20 less than the current MOCA bridge). The TiVo app will be farther out - expect to see that at the end of the summer, maybe just before football season starts up again. Even better, it will be free to download, *you just need a Bolt* for the app to talk to."
> Hmmmm.


I know. Rabbit hole, right? Is watching a TiVo at 720p worth the cost of a new Bolt? I think we are headed towards a period of stagnation. Incremental innovation, fewer people motivated to improve, and tamped demand tamping desire to innovate. CES 2019 was beyond boring. I contend that whatever one wants, it's already out there, most of us already own it, and few feel compelled to change -- no matter what the pundits tell us.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

If my current Roamio Pro can stream to my TiVo Minis and the app on my iPad, I see no technical reason why it wouldn't be able to stream to an app on my 4K AppleTV too. If it's because the source TiVo needs the horsepower to transcode it to 720p, well that's dumb, because my AppleTV doesn't need that. And why would I upgrade to the Bolt, just to be able to use a hobbled app, when I already have Minis? I felt screwed when the 2-tuner Premiere couldn't be the sole source for Minis, even though two tuners would have just been fine for my needs. So I got the Roamio Pro. Now I'm expected to upgrade again, just to be able to use the new apps? 

TiVo, it's been a good ride, but this is finally where you lose me.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Fofer said:


> TiVo, it's been a good ride, but this is finally where you lose me.


I can understand. I think that this will be TE4 also. Needing TE4 is ok with me, since my expectations are low anyhow.

Another thing about that article is the price of the new wireless bridge. It better work really well for that price.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

If TE4/Hydra is what is required on my Roamio Pro for the apps to work, I would upgrade to TE4. 

If they won’t work regardless on a Roamio Pro and the minimum hardware required is a Bolt? Meh. Not interested. And not surprised. This is what TiVo has constantly done.


----------



## smark (Nov 20, 2002)

wizwor said:


> I know. Rabbit hole, right? Is watching a TiVo at 720p worth the cost of a new Bolt? I think we are headed towards a period of stagnation. Incremental innovation, fewer people motivated to improve, and tamped demand tamping desire to innovate. CES 2019 was beyond boring. I contend that whatever one wants, it's already out there, most of us already own it, and few feel compelled to change -- no matter what the pundits tell us.


It may bring some new people into the fold with marketing around "buy a Bolt and watch TV in every room for free!". I could see some folks in the OTA world being interested if price is their most concerning point. I also see people using purchasing a Mini for say their living room while the Bolt is in their den and using the app in guest rooms, offices, etc.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Lurker1 said:


> Is TiVo's New App The Beginning Or The End


I feel like the author is writing based on conversations with marketing folk, rather than from hands-on experience with the products/features. The following statement seems an extreme exaggeration that the most basic use of a TiVo would expose:

"Not only do you get a device that can aggregate all of your streaming services ..."​
And I'm not going to get too worried about the new apps only being supported with BOLTs, at least until I hear from TiVo officially, or at least someone who seems familiar with TiVo products and features.


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I have watched all the videos and read the conversations with Ted, et al.. I think it is rather safe to say it will work with any TiVo capable of streaming functionality and running TE4.

TiVo has never put artificial restrictions on functionality based on model, if a restriction exists it would be hardware based.

Before you complain about TE3, we know that software is EOL, so i would not expect any new functionality to work in that platform.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

bradleys said:


> TiVo has never put artificial restrictions on functionality based on model, if a restriction exists it would be hardware based.


My 2-tuner Premiere disagrees with you.


----------



## mrsean (May 15, 2006)

This CES has been a real bust for Tivo. I don't even know why they bothered to show up. 

Tivo: "Let's show them apps that we promised years ago and will offer them several months later along with an also long overdue overpriced wifi adapter that most of our install base doesn't need because they have already found other workarounds." FAIL!


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

And the app is 720p and doesn't have quickskip? WTH? What year is this?


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Fofer said:


> My 2-tuner Premiere disagrees with you.


This is what always kills me... people with 6 to 8 year old base level devices all concerned that a company EOLs the damn thing.

My series 1 iPad isn't supported either

Cry me a river...


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

What kills me is people who don’t read and understand the posts to which they’re smugly responding. I bought a Roamio Pro years ago because TiVo said that was the only way I could use the Minis. And yet the 2-Tuner Premiere does work with the Minis, now that the Roamio is on the same network. There is no technical reason it a 2-tuner Premiere on its own couldn’t work, with whatever necessary caveats expressed. Just poor programming on their part. 

So, yeah. We’ll see about what hardware is “required” for the apps. No river tears necessary.


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I chatted on Facebook with Ted and told him my daughter was really looking forward to having it on her Roku TV at school so she can watch our service from her apartment.

His response was that she would have it before she starts the fall semester...

Conversation suggests that remote viewing is included..


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Fofer said:


> My 2-tuner Premiere disagrees with you.


And you can stream from a 2-tuner Premiere to a Mini; you just can't assign the Premiere as host DVR for a Mini.

It would have been great if TiVo had circled back around on that requirement/restriction after rolling-out dynamic tuner allocation, but I expect they judged it wouldn't be worth the hassle.


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Fofer said:


> What kills me is people who don't read and understand the posts to which they're smugly responding. I bought a Roamio Pro years ago because TiVo said that was the only way I could use the Minis. And yet the 2-Tuner Premiere does work with the Minis, now that the Roamio is on the same network. There is no technical reason it a 2-tuner Premiere on its own couldn't work, with whatever necessary caveats expressed. Just poor programming on their part.
> 
> So, yeah. We'll see about what hardware is "required" for the apps. No river tears necessary.


Two tuner premiere works just fine with a mini, it just can't host a mini. The mini needs to take over a tuner and that would eave the two tuner Premiere hobbled.

You are always complaining about something...


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Fofer said:


> There is no technical reason it a 2-tuner Premiere on its own couldn't work, with whatever necessary caveats expressed. Just poor programming on their part.


Or just a design decision related to competition for the single spare tuner on a 2-tuner Premiere.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

bradleys said:


> Two tuner premiere works just fine with a mini, it just can't host a mini. The mini needs to take over a tuner and that would eave the two tuner Premiere hobbled.


It wouldn't leave my Premiere hobbled. It's in a closet. I watch one thing at a time and have few things recording. Never a conflict. This was a lazy restriction. Which contradicted your assertion that TiVo never does this.

I am aware that it "works," my complaint is that it doesn't work as a host, and that I had to buy a Roamio Pro. Dynamic tuner allocation was supposed to have fixed this.

I got over it, of course. But your assertion that TiVo never does this, is false.



bradleys said:


> You are always complaining about something...


Also false.

Again, we'll see what the minimum requirement is for the apps.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Fofer said:


> And the app is 720p and doesn't have quickskip? WTH? What year is this?


And is FREE.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

krkaufman said:


> And is FREE.



* but only works with the PURCHASE of specific, required hardware, as well as a subscription


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Fofer said:


> * but only works with the PURCHASE of specific, required hardware, as well as a subscription


Yes, as a business-purportedly-for-profit, TiVo does charge for things.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Fofer said:


> * but only works with the PURCHASE of specific, required hardware, as well as a subscription


Wait, what ?!? You mean the free TiVo app for streaming boxes won't be a stand-alone, fully functioning DVR w/ unlimited free storage? TiVo should burn in hell.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

krkaufman said:


> Wait, what ?!? You mean the free TiVo app for streaming boxes won't be a stand-alone, fully functioning DVR w/ unlimited free storage? TiVo should burn in hell.


Not what I said, but whatever.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Mikeguy said:


> Yes, as a business-purportedly-for-profit, TiVo does charge for things.


Of course. But defending the otherwise-disappointing aspects of the apps by saying "whaddaya want? They're free" is also disingenuous, that's all.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Fofer said:


> Of course. But defending the otherwise-disappointing aspects of the apps by saying "whaddaya want? They're free" is also disingenuous, that's all.


I wouldn't defend disappointing performance. But I don't see it, here (actually, none of us do, yet, lol), and the fact remains, TiVo also could charge for the apps, just as it did for TiVo Desktop Plus. I'm a bit surprised that it isn't charging--I might have.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Fofer said:


> Of course. But defending the otherwise-disappointing aspects of the apps by saying "whaddaya want? They're free" is also disingenuous, that's all.


You've now moved into the realm of character attack. Kudos.

"Disappointing" is a subjective judgement, and I quite genuinely feel that what I've seen demo'd for the free app is reasonable functionality and an acceptable trade-off relative to a Mini. What seems ludicrous, to me, is thinking that a company should release a free product that would entirely undercut an existing product line.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

That’s not what I said at all. Also made no such "character attack" either. Alas, this is silly and certainly not worth arguing over. 

Will a Roamio Pro be able to support the new apps? We'll see.


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Steve said:


> Why would they be limited to 720p if on the home network? E.g, I've got a 2018 4k Sony Android TV. If I loaded the client app on it, I'd want to feed it native resolution, if possible.


We already discussed this earlier in this thread. 

They are going to be limited by the transcoding/streaming capabilities of the Stream hardware in the Roamio Pro/Plus (assuming it works with that) and the transcoding/streaming functionality in the Bolt.

Scott


----------



## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

HerronScott said:


> We already discussed this earlier in this thread.


Missed that!


> They are going to be limited by the transcoding/streaming capabilities of the Stream hardware in the Roamio Pro/Plus (assuming it works with that) and the transcoding/streaming functionality in the Bolt.


Makes sense. Good news is the 4K capable apps like Netflix and Prime are also native to my 4K TV, so assuming the TiVo app passes control over to them, it may just be the 1080i/p content that will get dumbed down.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> And I'm not going to get too worried about the new apps only being supported with BOLTs, at least until I hear from TiVo officially, or at least someone who seems familiar with TiVo products and features.


This latest article covering an interview with @TiVo_Ted offers some additional background on the TiVo streaming box apps.

Thus, Spoke Tivo Ted Malone At Techhive

From the article:

If you have a TiVo that supports transcoding (including the Roamio Pro, Roamio Plus, Bolt, Bolt Vox, and Bolt OTA), these apps will let you stream live and recorded video to another TV, either at home or on the road. For other TiVo devices that lack transcoding, such as the entry-level Roamio or Roamio OTA, you'll need a separate TiVo Stream box to use the apps.

In a demo, the streaming apps looked similar to the menu system on TiVo's own hardware, but they do have one notable limitation: Video streams will be limited to 720p resolution at 30 frames per second. That means you won't get the smooth motion of 60-fps video for sports, news, and talk programming, nor will you be able to watch broadcasts in their native MPEG-2 format.

"I want 720p 60 [fps]," Malone said. "I've done some internal demos proving that 720p 60 [fps] is actually noticeably better than 720p 30. It's really a battle for resources and just getting it done."

Malone said the TiVo hardware can technically support higher-quality streams, but not without dialing back some other capabilities, such as streaming to TiVo Mini Vox boxes.​


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Ok, phew, glad to see word (as close to “official” as we can get) that my Roamio model is covered. My next question is if it will require us to be running Hydra or not. And the wait continues.

Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

They need to bring the TiVo Stream back from the dead to support this! Also, 720p30 is just pathetic. At leaast 720p60 is perfectly adequate for a smaller secondary TV. Hopefully they will eventually get to 1080p60.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Bigg said:


> They need to bring the TiVo Stream back from the dead to support this! Also, 720p30 is just pathetic. At leaast 720p60 is perfectly adequate for a smaller secondary TV. Hopefully they will eventually get to 1080p60.


So unclear why the Stream has disappeared from view.


----------



## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Bigg said:


> They need to bring the TiVo Stream back from the dead to support this! Also, 720p30 is just pathetic. At leaast 720p60 is perfectly adequate for a smaller secondary TV. Hopefully they will eventually get to 1080p60.


There is no 1080p60 broadcast or CATV content stored on a tivo to send. 720p or 1080i


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

jcthorne said:


> There is no 1080p60 broadcast or CATV content stored on a tivo to send. 720p or 1080i


They could deinterlace 1080i60 for use on streaming devices.


----------



## d_anders (Oct 12, 2000)

Bigg said:


> They could deinterlace 1080i60 for use on streaming devices.


Agreed. As noted in the article, Malone said they can get 60fps streams to the streamers, but Malone said they would have to make trade-offs...Malone implies that if someone is streaming to a Mini (which will always be better quality pushing resource intensive MPEG2), then the same TiVO box doesn't have the resources (at that same time) to actively send 60fps to a streamer. They have to use 30fps then.

Bottom line, they could just push 60fps, and if someone starts streaming to a Mini, then they would have to shift the other stream from 60fps to 30fps. If TiVo noted/overlayed a message on the streamer screen and inform the user, or just simply document that this will happen, I think most people will accept it.

I assume that most people who don't already own a Mini, will just use a FireTV/Roku/AppleTV streamer when the apps are released. Anyone that wants the full TiVo experience (peanut remote, and like-for0like functionality on a separate TV) should just buy and utilize a Mini.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Yeah, if I have a Mini in one room, and an AppleTV in another, I'd want the best possible quality when I am watching via the app in the room with the AppleTV. Especially if I'm the only person watching anything on a TV in the house at this time. If TiVo permanently hobbles the stream to the AppleTV app to 30fps simply to accommodate that Mini (that no one is watching at that time!) that would be disappointing and stupid.


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

d_anders said:


> Agreed. As noted in the article, Malone said they can get 60fps streams to the streamers, but Malone said they would have to make trade-offs...Malone implies that if someone is streaming to a Mini (which will always be better quality pushing resource intensive MPEG2), then the same TiVO box doesn't have the resources (at that same time) to actively send 60fps to a streamer. They have to use 30fps then.


Is that really the issue though? It's possible, but I'm having a tough time with that. My Premiere XL4 could record 4 things and stream to 3 Minis while playing back another recording locally, and that thing had a fraction of the CPU and network resources that a Bolt OTA, for example, has. However, if there is some sort of limitation with many concurrent streams, then the dropping to 30fps solution is better. If it's a choice of 1080p30 or 720p60 though, I'd say drop to 720p60, as it will stay smooth.


----------



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I want the app for an out of the home extender. My daugter at school, me in a hotel, vacation home - whatever...

If i want to support a tv in my home I will buy a mini. The 720 30fps is the least of my concerns.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

The app, as an out of home extender, will only be interesting to me if it's able to stream all content, and not merely recordings that don't have the copyright flag set. This limits what can stream outside the home when using the iPad app, too. On Spectrum, they restrict all recordings except the ones from local channels. I wonder if the Android/Roku/tvOS app will be any different? Probably not. We'll see.


----------



## smark (Nov 20, 2002)

Fofer said:


> The app, as an out of home extender, will only be interesting to me if it's able to stream all content, and not merely recordings that don't have the copyright flag set. This limits what can stream outside the home when using the iPad app, too. On Spectrum, they restrict all recordings except the ones from local channels. I wonder if the Android/Roku/tvOS app will be any different? Probably not. We'll see.


I have OpenVPN setup on my unraid server so I just use that route when not home.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

smark said:


> I have OpenVPN setup on my unraid server so I just use that route when not home.


Hmm, that's an interesting idea. I recall trying something similar many years ago (when out of home streaming wasn't yet an option, period) and I recall not having a great experience with it. I'll have to try it again. Thanks.


----------



## smark (Nov 20, 2002)

Fofer said:


> Hmm, that's an interesting idea. I recall trying something similar many years ago (when out of home streaming wasn't yet an option, period) and I recall not having a great experience with it. I'll have to try it again. Thanks.


Seems to work well as long as you can connect to some sort of WiFi.


----------



## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

Bigg said:


> Is that really the issue though? It's possible, but I'm having a tough time with that. My Premiere XL4 could record 4 things and stream to 3 Minis while playing back another recording locally, and that thing had a fraction of the CPU and network resources that a Bolt OTA, for example, has. However, if there is some sort of limitation with many concurrent streams, then the dropping to 30fps solution is better. If it's a choice of 1080p30 or 720p60 though, I'd say drop to 720p60, as it will stay smooth.


Mini streams don't require any transcoding though...the Mini has its own hardware decoders for MPEG2 and MPEG4. The Stream circuitry does the transcoding and it is only designed to transcode to MPEG4 at relatively low bit (< 5Mbps) rates. To get up to 720p60 or even 1080i60 (which are close to same bit rate) likely strains the capacity of the data buss and/or I/O capacity of the central processor, not necessarily the core computational power.


----------



## ric hardt (Jan 9, 2019)

Is the streaming capabilities of a Bolt any different/better than a Tivo stream? Given that they are finally moving toward promoting streaming, wouldn't it make sense to upgrade the capabilities of the transcoder inside the Bolt or offer a Stream II?


----------



## OrangeCrush (Feb 18, 2016)

ric hardt said:


> Is the streaming capabilities of a Bolt any different/better than a Tivo stream? Given that they are finally moving toward promoting streaming, wouldn't it make sense to upgrade the capabilities of the transcoder inside the Bolt or offer a Stream II?


There may be some advantage for the built-in tuner in the Bolt (and potentially Roamio Plus & Pro) over the standalone TiVo Stream for quickly establishing a streaming session, which would translate to less buffering and lag when changing channels or starting playback.

Other than that, the Bolt's transcoder can only handle 2 simultaneous streams while the standalone TiVo Stream can do up to 4. I don't remember how many "lanes" the transcoders inside the Roamio Plus & Pro have.


----------



## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

OrangeCrush said:


> I don't remember how many "lanes" the transcoders inside the Roamio Plus & Pro have.


Four. The Roamio Plus & Pro models use the same hardware as the Stream.


----------



## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

Bigg said:


> Is that really the issue though? It's possible, but I'm having a tough time with that. My Premiere XL4 could record 4 things and stream to 3 Minis while playing back another recording locally, and that thing had a fraction of the CPU and network resources that a Bolt OTA, for example, has. However, if there is some sort of limitation with many concurrent streams, then the dropping to 30fps solution is better. If it's a choice of 1080p30 or 720p60 though, I'd say drop to 720p60, as it will stay smooth.


XL4 was the most reliable TiVo produced and it had innovative featured. Don't get me wrong, I love my Bolt+ for its speed.


----------



## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

OrangeCrush said:


> There may be some advantage for the built-in tuner in the Bolt (and potentially Roamio Plus & Pro) over the standalone TiVo Stream for quickly establishing a streaming session, which would translate to less buffering and lag when changing channels or starting playback.
> 
> Other than that, the Bolt's transcoder can only handle 2 simultaneous streams while the standalone TiVo Stream can do up to 4. I don't remember how many "lanes" the transcoders inside the Roamio Plus & Pro have.


Also (and I know doesn't mater to most people) because the Roamio Plus & Pro basically have a standalone Stream embedded in them they can transcode shows hosted on other TiVos on your network (just like the standalone Stream can). So if you also had, say, a Premiere as well as your Plus you'd be able to stream shows from the Premiere to your phone because the Plus's built in Stream would do the transcoding.
The Bolt doesn't do that because its more integrated transcoder doesn't present itself to your network as a TiVo Stream.


----------



## ric hardt (Jan 9, 2019)

By improvement in transcoding I was mainly referring the resolution and bitrate. I would think there are better transcoding chip options than what is in the stream or Bolt. I would prefer an option for 1080p although 720p is acceptable however the streamed picture quality is seems significantly lower because of the low bit rate.


----------



## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

ric hardt said:


> Is the streaming capabilities of a Bolt any different/better than a Tivo stream? Given that they are finally moving toward promoting streaming, *wouldn't it make sense to upgrade the capabilities of the transcoder inside the Bolt or offer a Stream II?*


There's no market for a Stream II and the Bolt hardware has been out over 3 years now with no change.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

ric hardt said:


> Is the streaming capabilities of a Bolt any different/better than a Tivo stream? Given that they are finally moving toward promoting streaming, wouldn't it make sense to upgrade the capabilities of the transcoder inside the Bolt or offer a Stream II?





CloudAtlas said:


> There's no market for a Stream II and the Bolt hardware has been out over 3 years now with no change.


Eh, I was just thinking earlier today that it would make sense for TiVo to offer a beefier Stream2, if only to improve streaming quality for the TiVo app for streaming boxes. The original Stream and BOLT transcoding seems to have been developed to support small screen mobile device streaming.


----------



## ric hardt (Jan 9, 2019)

CloudAtlas said:


> There's no market for a Stream II and the Bolt hardware has been out over 3 years now with no change.


I would respectfully disagree with your thinking. If the direction Tivo is headed is to market itself as a "streaming" DVR option with Roku, FireTV and AppleTV apps then the transcoding engine needs to be updated from what is currently used in the Bolt. 5Mbps 720p may be acceptable for a tablet or phone which are the devices initially intended for streaming however the new apps are totally designed for streaming devices connected to a big screen and the picture doesn't look great. I'd personally love to see a stream II for all existing Bolts/Roamio however they need to update the transcoding hardware inside the Bolt in new models.


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Sparky1234 said:


> XL4 was the most reliable TiVo produced and it had innovative featured. Don't get me wrong, I love my Bolt+ for its speed.


Would have to disagree with this - I had an Elite (same as XL4) and would have bogus V53 signal errors due to some issue with the tuners that was never resolved. Old thread about this if you search.

The two Roamio Plus that I've had so far have been much better with cable, the most reliable I've had (started with HDs, then Elite, now Roamio). I have no intention of downgrading to 4 tuners with the Bolt and the lifetime Bolt+ is ridiculously overpriced, fugly, and not worth the upgrade IMO.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Yeah I've owned pretty much every TiVo ever made and I'd say the Roamio Pro was the best hardware ever put put there. But it still had it's issues.


----------



## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

slowbiscuit said:


> Would have to disagree with this - I had an Elite (same as XL4) and would have bogus V53 signal errors due to some issue with the tuners that was never resolved. Old thread about this if you search.
> 
> The two Roamio Plus that I've had so far have been much better with cable, the most reliable I've had (started with HDs, then Elite, now Roamio). I have no intention of downgrading to 4 tuners with the Bolt and the lifetime Bolt+ is ridiculously overpriced, fugly, and not worth the upgrade IMO.


I have problems with my Roamio Pro still. My Bolt+ has been perfect (so far)!


----------



## ric hardt (Jan 9, 2019)

Just for comparison purposes, I found this table on transcoding resolutions and bitrates. Transcoding in Tivo can't really compete on a regular TV. I have no desire for TabloTV or Recast but our transcoding wasn't really made for viewing on a regular TV and comparatively speaking the picture quality looks poor. I genuinely hope they consider releasing a Stream II and/or upgrading the Bolt's transcoding chips. All the resources spent by Tivo and excitement about streaming apps means very little if the picture quality is mediocre. How was this overlooked?


----------



## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

ric hardt said:


> I have no desire for TabloTV or Recast but our transcoding wasn't really made for viewing on a regular TV and comparatively speaking the picture quality looks poor. I genuinely hope they consider releasing a Stream II and/or upgrading the Bolt's transcoding chips. All the resources spent by Tivo and excitement about streaming apps means very little if the picture quality is mediocre. How was this overlooked?


My guess is that TiVo's line of thinking is as follows: If you want a first-rate TiVo experience, including pristine picture quality, on your secondary TVs, our solution for that remains the TiVo Mini, complete with a genuine TiVo remote for only $180! For our customers who don't need that level of quality on their secondary TVs, we're pleased to offer you -- free of charge! -- the TiVo apps for Apple TV, Roku, Fire TV and Android TV. I mean, it's hard to complain about the quality when it's free.

TiVo doesn't intend their retail users to _mainly_ interact with the TiVo service via those apps. That said, TiVo has developed a solution for use by pay TV partners in which TiVo runs on an Android TV box and service can be extended to secondary TVs via their upcoming app for Apple TV, etc. Who knows, maybe that Android TV box has more powerful transcoding capabilities than the Bolt or the Stream and can therefore deliver better picture quality to the app?


----------



## ric hardt (Jan 9, 2019)

NashGuy said:


> My guess is that TiVo's line of thinking is as follows: If you want a first-rate TiVo experience, including pristine picture quality, on your secondary TVs, our solution for that remains the TiVo Mini, complete with a genuine TiVo remote for only $180! For our customers who don't need that level of quality on their secondary TVs, we're pleased to offer you -- free of charge! -- the TiVo apps for Apple TV, Roku, Fire TV and Android TV. I mean, it's hard to complain about the quality when it's free.
> 
> TiVo doesn't intend their retail users to _mainly_ interact with the TiVo service via those apps. That said, TiVo has developed a solution for use by pay TV partners in which TiVo runs on an Android TV box and service can be extended to secondary TVs via their upcoming app for Apple TV, etc. Who knows, maybe that Android TV box has more powerful transcoding capabilities than the Bolt or the Stream and can therefore deliver better picture quality to the app?


You may be correct however I think it's short sighted. We have 3 Tivo Minis and while they are absolutely fantastic for TV/DVR, as streaming device they really don't compare which I recognize is not their primary function. Tivo had to spend a LOT of resources developing apps for the major platforms because they (correctly) recognized where the marketplace and their competition has gone. To not upgrade the transcoding capabilities IMHO is a poor decision as the comparisons and comments about picture quality will absolutely be made when the apps are released and its not going to be favorable. The transcoding of the Stream and Bolt are really not sufficient for a regular TV and a legitimate statement can be made their streaming capabilities are outdated. Instead of a wireless adapter, they should have a announced Stream II.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

ric hardt said:


> Just for comparison purposes, I found this table on transcoding resolutions and bitrates. Transcoding in Tivo can't really compete on a regular TV. I have no desire for TabloTV or Recast but our transcoding wasn't really made for viewing on a regular TV and comparatively speaking the picture quality looks poor. I genuinely hope they consider releasing a Stream II and/or upgrading the Bolt's transcoding chips. All the resources spent by Tivo and excitement about streaming apps means very little if the picture quality is mediocre. How was this overlooked?


One Size Doesn't Fit All: Choosing the Right Tablo Recording Quality | Over The Air (OTA) DVR | Tablo

https://support.tablotv.com/hc/en-u...ting-1080-10Mbps-720-60fps-4-Tuner-Tablo-DVRs

_To avoid locking the 4th tuner and still use the 1080 quality, simply change your Tablo DVR's recording quality to 1080 @ 8Mbps. Note: this will remove the 60fps capture on 720p channels._​
If the issue is FPS, Tablo only offers 60 fps with the Highest setting, per the above pages, and recording at this quality requires adjusting system resources.


----------



## ric hardt (Jan 9, 2019)

I played around with TabloTV. As to the limitation referenced in link posted, my guess is it exists as Tablo transcodes everything and does not record native mpeg2 like Tivo. Its an interesting device but I far prefer Tivo. The chart was posted mainly for comparison. TabloTV has been out for a few years now and my guess is there are better transcoding chips than what they are used. Maybe Tivo will consider upgrading transcoding capabilities of the next Bolt.


----------



## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

ric hardt said:


> The transcoding of the Stream and Bolt are really not sufficient for a regular TV and a legitimate statement can be made their streaming capabilities are outdated. Instead of a wireless adapter, they should have a announced Stream II.


I hear what you're saying but I think the reality is that the retail/consumer part of TiVo's business is relatively small. What they really care about is their pay TV partner business. So unless those customers also had a need for a Stream II device, I don't think TiVo would put the resources into creating such a device just for retail users like you who would prefer to buy a Stream II to use in conjunction with Rokus, etc. as opposed to buying Minis. And keep in mind that TiVo has stepped away from the hardware business to some extent; they now outsource hardware manufacturing to Arris. (Although it isn't clear to me how involved each side is versus the other in terms of designing and greenlighting a particular device.)

I've long said that the Bolt will be the final CableCARD-equipped retail DVR that TiVo puts out. But if I'm wrong, maybe the next model will be a headless TiVo "server" with high-quality transcoding to pump out live and recorded TV to any device using the TiVo app -- basically like the upcoming HDHomeRun Prime 6, except also with a built-in hard drive and DVR software.


----------



## ric hardt (Jan 9, 2019)

NashGuy said:


> I've long said that the Bolt will be the final CableCARD-equipped retail DVR that TiVo puts out. But if I'm wrong, maybe the next model will be a headless TiVo "server" with high-quality transcoding to pump out live and recorded TV to any device using the TiVo app -- basically like the upcoming HDHomeRun Prime 6, except also with a built-in hard drive and DVR software.


Sadly I think you are correct. I would love Tivo release a headless server device although that's likely wishful thinking on my part.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

I am currently using a Roamio Plus (with an upgraded HDD) as a headless server in my AV closet. The living room and bedroom have TiVo Minis.


----------



## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Fofer said:


> I am currently using a Roamio Plus (with an upgraded HDD) as a headless server in my AV closet. The living room and bedroom have TiVo Minis.


Right, although that differs from what I envisioned in that you're using Minis on your TVs rather than the upcoming TiVo app for Roku/Apple TV/etc.

BTW, what's the point in using Minis on both TVs rather than just connecting the Roamio Plus to one of them and a Mini to the other?


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

The physical size of the box. Both TVs currently have a very clean setup, each standing on thin credenzas, and I’ve been considering wall mounting them instead too. The Mini’s size makes that a much easier proposition. The Roamio Plus is much bigger by comparison.

I also happen to have the cable coax in the AV closet and I didn’t feel like running it to the living room instead. At least not yet. I may do that soon via coax splitter. HDMI-CEC on the Roamio Pro (if I upgrade to Hydra) is the sole allure as that would make my AV living room setup just a tiny bit easier to navigate.


----------



## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Diana Collins said:


> Mini streams don't require any transcoding though...the Mini has its own hardware decoders for MPEG2 and MPEG4. The Stream circuitry does the transcoding and it is only designed to transcode to MPEG4 at relatively low bit (< 5Mbps) rates. To get up to 720p60 or even 1080i60 (which are close to same bit rate) likely strains the capacity of the data buss and/or I/O capacity of the central processor, not necessarily the core computational power.


I get that, but the Bolt and Roamio Plus/Pro have hardware transcoders built in. Is the transcoding infrastructure really that anemic? 5mbps should be enough for 720p60 unless the transcoders just aren't very powerful in the first place and just can't handle it.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Bigg said:


> I get that, but the Bolt and Roamio Plus/Pro have hardware transcoders built in. Is the transcoding infrastructure really that anemic? 5mbps should be enough for 720p60 unless the transcoders just aren't very powerful in the first place and just can't handle it.


It's a limitation of the SoC. The Pro/Plus have the full TiVo stream hardware inside which allow four streams to be trasncoded. But an SoC with those transcoding abilities was not available for the TiVo, back in 2013, when the ROamio came out. It was available for the Bolt in 2015. But with a two stream limitation.


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> It's a limitation of the SoC. The Pro/Plus have the full TiVo stream hardware inside which allow four streams to be trasncoded. But an SoC with those transcoding abilities was not available for the TiVo, back in 2013, when the ROamio came out. It was available for the Bolt in 2015. But with a two stream limitation.


Is the Bolt transcoding functionality a separate SOC or is it built into the Broadcom chipset used?

Scott


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

HerronScott said:


> Is the Bolt transcoding functionality a separate SOC or is it built into the Broadcom chipset used?
> 
> Scott


It's all part of the chipset used. Unlike the Roamio Pro/Plus.


----------



## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

Sorry I’ve taken a TCF hiatus over the holidays and CES. It does look like you’ve gotten to the details on most of these issues. This thread has taken many tangents, so here is a consolidated set on info/answers on the items I remembered after reading 300 posts:
- The WiFi 5 adapter we showed at CES was a live demo, not faked. One major benefit of the adapter over a bridge was that we also showed that we had integrated all of the WiFi setup screens into the UI
- For any of you using bridges, how does 1x FF work for you? This is tough on most, but was rock solid with our adapter
- The p2p wireless technology we are using is TDLS. It will seamlessly fail back to your router if we can’t establish a clean link. This will only work when connected to a BOLT because TDLS is not supported on our older wireless N chipset. This feature may not be available at launch. Timing TBD
- For streaming to the soft MINI apps, our initial implementation is leveraging the transcoding we use for our mobile clients, hence the resolution limits. We will be cranking this up as much as the existing boxes can handle. YMMV
- We will support our-of-home, but there will still be some limits on certain cable channels. This varies by cable operator and is required in order to achieve Cable Labs certification. 
- Supporting new resolutions will require work on the DVR side which is planned, but only on TE4 for now. This means that we will see how high we can go with Roamio and BOLT boxes on TE4. 
- For BOLT, the chipset can be configured to support various use cases, but mode switching is not instant. Most of the time we are in a mode which can support 4K decode to the HDMI output and 2 simultaneous 720p30 transcodes. 
- The chip can do more, but only by giving something up. We can switch to 1x 720p60, but not on the fly. Similarly, we could switch to a headless mode and then do 2x 720p60. Each of these would create user experience issues that we need to solve. Not hard, just work. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

TiVo_Ted said:


> The WiFi 5 adapter we showed at CES was a live demo, not faked. One major benefit of the adapter over a bridge was that we also showed that we had integrated all of the WiFi setup screens into the UI


Thanks, Ted.

Need beta testers?


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

TiVo_Ted said:


> - For any of you using bridges, how does 1x FF work for you? This is tough on most, but was rock solid with our adapter


I guess my understanding of your problem is wrong. I have A93 and A95 Mini with wireless bridge connections to my router and the hosts (basic Roamio TE3 and TE4) is Ethernet to the router. Playback of a recording, be it 1x, 2x or 3x works the same as the host. I tested 480i through 1080P without any problems. I have watched YouTube on my Mini units for hours without dropouts or disconnects. I've been a beta before. As for testing the new adapter, I will just buy one.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

JoeKustra said:


> I guess my understanding of your problem is wrong. I have A93 and A95 Mini with wireless bridge connections to my router and the hosts (basic Roamio TE3 and TE4) is Ethernet to the router. Playback of a recording, be it 1x, 2x or 3x works the same as the host. I tested 480i through 1080P without any problems. I have watched YouTube on my Mini units for hours without dropouts or disconnects. I've been a beta before. As for testing the new adapter, I will just buy one.


Yes. Using a wireless bridge has always been rock solid in my setups too.. It is identical to using a wired connection. The key is having a properly setup wifi network. Which a large percentage of people do not.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

TiVo_Ted said:


> - For any of you using bridges, how does 1x FF work for you? This is tough on most, but was rock solid with our adapter


I am currently using an Airport Express as a wireless bridge for one of my TiVo Minis and it works fine, even with 1x FF. Any speed FF, any function, actually. Once or twice a year it gets disconnected from my Roamio Plus and a reboot of the Airport Express and/or my wireless router, has fixed it for me.

Regardless, the bridge looks to be a cleaner, more reliable solution and I'm looking forward to it.

Will the bridge work on a TiVo Mini running TE3? Or does it require TE4?


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

TiVo_Ted said:


> Sorry I've taken a TCF hiatus over the holidays and CES.


Welcome back. 

Scott


----------



## OrangeCrush (Feb 18, 2016)

TiVo_Ted said:


> Supporting new resolutions will require work on the DVR side which is planned, but only on TE4 for now. This means that we will see how high we can go with Roamio and BOLT boxes on TE4.


Welcome back Ted! Will the initial implementation of the soft mini apps work w/ a TE3 Roamio OTA & TiVo Stream?


----------



## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

OrangeCrush said:


> Welcome back Ted! Will the initial implementation of the soft mini apps work w/ a TE3 Roamio OTA & TiVo Stream?


Yes, this config should work fine.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TiVo_Ted (Oct 3, 2000)

Fofer said:


> Will the bridge work on a TiVo Mini running TE3? Or does it require TE4?


This is a USB adapter, not a bridge. The initial driver work is being done on TE4. I'm not sure whether we'll be able to duplicate the work on TE3. As far as supporting A92 or A93 MINI's, the main issue is CPU and memory performance. I'll know more once we start testing.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

TiVo_Ted said:


> For streaming to the soft MINI apps, our initial implementation is leveraging the transcoding we use for our mobile clients, hence the resolution limits. We will be cranking this up as much as the existing boxes can handle. YMMV


Welcome back.  I'm a bit more concerned about bitrate than resolution. Last I checked a while back, I think the limit on mobile devices was ~2.1mbps. Good for a small screen, but didn't look great on a big screen (with Apple AirPlay). Will the bitrate be increased?


----------



## lucidrenegade (Aug 21, 2013)

TiVo_Ted said:


> - For streaming to the soft MINI apps, our *initial implementation* is leveraging the transcoding we use for our mobile clients, hence the resolution limits. We will be cranking this up as much as the existing boxes can handle. YMMV


Ted - does this mean that a Mini type solution (ie: no transcoding) is in the cards for at least those of us with Android TV boxes like the Nvidia Shield TV?


----------



## eisenb11 (Sep 6, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> Yes. Using a wireless bridge has always been rock solid in my setups too.. It is identical to using a wired connection. The key is having a properly setup wifi network. Which a large percentage of people do not.


Seconded on the wireless bridge. My conclusion is that Tivo "doesn't support wireless" connections for the mini simply as a matter of not wanting to provide support.

The root cause of it not working tends to be multipath issues which can often be addressed by fiddling with your access point's settings. How to do this is different from device to device so they probably would rather not deal with it.

I've had my mini hooked up to a wireless bridge (spare Netgear ac router that was sitting around) for a couple of years now with no issue once I resolved the multipath settings. Still... the new USB adapter seems pretty interesting - probably much simpler and will likely use less energy than a router acting as a bridge. May give it a try, although if it ain't broke...


----------



## NickTheGreat (Aug 31, 2015)

I'm excited about the Roku App and the Wifi thing. Maybe. I'm having trouble getting my bridge to work, but the Powerline solution works okay.


----------

