# Replace Lifetime HD with Mini - any downside?



## aine (Dec 23, 2003)

I have a new TiVo Premiere 4 in the family room, and an older (lifetime) TiVo HD 160GB in the bedroom.

I have Time Warner, so I can't transfer most shows from the Premiere to the HD, so I end up having to maintain both TiVos.

I'm wondering whether there is any downside to replacing the TiVo HD with a new TiVo Mini. If I could sell the Lifetimed TiVo HD for $200 (reasonable?) and stop paying for the CableCARD, I would more or less break even getting a Lifetimed TiVo Mini for $249.

Advantages:
- smaller footprint, less power
- one TiVo to "maintain"
- no Tuning Adapter
- no more $3/month CableCARD fee

I never had a Mini, so I don't know the details. But it seems like there are no disadvantages, are there?


----------



## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

aine said:


> I have a new TiVo Premiere 4 in the family room, and an older (lifetime) TiVo HD 160GB in the bedroom.
> 
> I have Time Warner, so I can't transfer most shows from the Premiere to the HD, so I end up having to maintain both TiVos.
> 
> ...


<Pros>
Your advantages plus...
- Improved performance of the Mini UI
- Consistent experience with the HDUI

<Cons>
- No Netflix or Amazon Instant on the Mini
- Live TV switching is slower than on the TiVo HD
- Less tuners available for the DVR. You would be down to 3 tuners for recordings until such time as TiVo releases Dynamic Tuner Allocation

It will be an easier upgrade decision once TiVo releases some promised software upgrades...


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

sbiller said:


> <Pros>
> Your advantages plus...
> - Improved performance of the Mini UI
> - Consistent experience with the HDUI
> ...


Also you must use Moca; it is built in on the TP-4 and the Mini, you do need to connect the router to the Moca system from the TP-4 built in RJ45 or get a Moca converter about $40 from TiVo. You could also use the RJ45 jack in both locations if available.


----------



## Rose4uKY (Mar 28, 2003)

I currently own 3 Tivo series 3 HD Tivo's and one has a lifetime. I too thought 200 would be reasonable for the lifetime and maybe a 100 a piece for the other two. I am moving and my cable company just switched to Time Warner. We thought about getting Dish with the Hopper and Joey's cause the equipment is free and it's just a 12.99 and 6.95 fee on each Joey we would have two plus the main Hopper that has 2000 hours. Not sure how well it will work in bad weather neither. But I love my Tivo's and have always had Tivo never had my cable companies DVR ever. 

But today I decide to call Tivo and ask what they had new and what all Premiere did verses what I had and I mentioned how I would like to be able to watch a show in any room without having to actually transfer and wait and he told me all about this Mocha and Tivo Mini's. 

He said if I buy a premiere that right now there is a special for free Mocha and then I would need 2 Tivo Minis. He mentioned no Netflix or anything just yet but we would do that on the main Tivo Premiere on our main TV anyway. I just would like to be able to go to any room and start watching a show and pick off in another room. Came here to read reviews on this Mocha and Tivo Mini. Is it worth the upgrade? Or should I just keep what I got. I have 2 Tivo's and my boyfriend has one and were moving in together and will have 3 TV's. This is the 1st thread I saw when I went to Tivo Mini. Sounds interesting..


----------



## aine (Dec 23, 2003)

sbiller said:


> <Cons>
> - No Netflix or Amazon Instant on the Mini
> - Less tuners available for the DVR. You would be down to 3 tuners for recordings until such time as TiVo releases Dynamic Tuner Allocation


Thanks sbiller... I had forgotten about those two "cons". Helpful to have it spelled out. I think you are right that if we eventually get a software update that adds Netflix and Dynamic Tuner Allocation, then the decision becomes pretty simple. For now I will hold off since sometimes the kids watch Netflix in the bedroom. Thanks for the info.

Les, I have ethernet in both rooms, so that's not an issue for me. But you are right it will be for some.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

lessd said:


> Also you must use Moca; ............


You don't have to use MoCA with the Mini. You can use Ethernet as well.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> You don't have to use MoCA with the Mini. You can use Ethernet as well.


If you read my full post you would have seen that I said that !! you only quoted the first part. 

My full post

*Also you must use Moca; it is built in on the TP-4 and the Mini, you do need to connect the router to the Moca system from the TP-4 built in RJ45 or get a Moca converter about $40 from TiVo. You could also use the RJ45 jack in both locations if available. 
*

__________________


----------



## Rose4uKY (Mar 28, 2003)

Can I ask a question? I have a series 3 Tivo now and we do Netflix and I think it might have Amazon on there somewhere but I don't know if it's instant and right now when I want to purchase an Amazon movie I have to pay for it and download it and wait before I can watch it. On the Premiere does instant mean I can just press play and start watching no downloading? Were moving and couldn't decide between Dish & The Hopper with 2 Joey's or Tivo Premiere and Mini's. Now we want to sell our Tivo's and stick with Tivo and try the Premiere XL4 and get 2 mini's.

<Cons>
- No Netflix or Amazon Instant on the Mini
TiVo releases Dynamic Tuner Allocation

It will be an easier upgrade decision once TiVo releases some promised software upgrades...[/QUOTE]


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

lessd said:


> If you read my full post you would have seen that I said that !! you only quoted the first part.
> 
> My full post
> 
> ...


But you first wrote "Also you *must* use Moca..". Why is that in that in there?

I think i did post though before reading the entire post.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> But you first wrote "Also you *must* use Moca..". Why is that in that in there?
> 
> I think i did post though before reading the entire post.


Most people don't have RJ45 in all places in their home, so for most (not all) one does have to use Moca with the Mini/TP-4 setup.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Rose4uKY said:


> Can I ask a question? I have a series 3 Tivo now and we do Netflix and I think it might have Amazon on there somewhere but I don't know if it's instant and right now when I want to purchase an Amazon movie I have to pay for it and download it and wait before I can watch it. On the Premiere does instant mean I can just press play and start watching no downloading? Were moving and couldn't decide between Dish & The Hopper with 2 Joey's or Tivo Premiere and Mini's. Now we want to sell our Tivo's and stick with Tivo and try the Premiere XL4 and get 2 mini's.


Amazon Instant is a streaming-only service available to Amazon Prime customers. But as of now, no Tivos support Instant. They only support the old pay-to-download service.

Additionally, the Mini cannot stream Amazon downloads from a Tivo at this point.


----------



## Rose4uKY (Mar 28, 2003)

Thanks!



BigJimOutlaw said:


> Amazon Instant is a streaming-only service available to Amazon Prime customers. But as of now, no Tivos support Instant. They only support the old pay-to-download service.
> 
> Additionally, the Mini cannot stream Amazon downloads from a Tivo at this point.


----------



## MsUnderstood (Jun 1, 2004)

I have been considering the mini to replace the lifetime series 3 in my bedroom. The additional benefit would be:

The series 3 Hard drive makes noises through the night. (is the mini silent?)
I could access Comcast on demand (cannot with series 3). 

The cons of no Netflix/amazon can be overcome with my Xbox (or a smart Blu-ray player). 

Was curious about MOCA --I believer my PREMIERE would need MOCA even if I setup my Mini with Ethernet, is that right? AND does the MOCA receiver I connect next to my permiere allow multiple items (for example if I put the moca at the premiere can I also plug in a DVD player and the xbox from the same moca receiver so all can benefit from MOCA or do I need 3 MOCA receivers?). 

Thanks for help.


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

MsUnderstood said:


> Was curious about MOCA --I believer my PREMIERE would need MOCA even if I setup my Mini with Ethernet, is that right? AND does the MOCA receiver I connect next to my permiere allow multiple items (for example if I put the moca at the premiere can I also plug in a DVD player and the xbox from the same moca receiver so all can benefit from MOCA or do I need 3 MOCA receivers?).


While MOCA is not required, you _*do*_ need a Premiere 4 or XL4, which has built-in MOCA. You cannot set up a mini with just a regular Premiere.


----------



## MsUnderstood (Jun 1, 2004)

Sorry for the shorthand--I do have the premiere 4. Since MOCA is built in does this mean I do not need the MOCA receiver on the other end, I only need a MOCA router (not sure if that is the right term) that converts my DSL to moca?


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

MsUnderstood said:


> Sorry for the shorthand--I do have the premiere 4. Since MOCA is built in does this mean I do not need the MOCA receiver on the other end, I only need a MOCA router (not sure if that is the right term) that converts my DSL to moca?


Assuming your Premiere 4 is connected via Ethernet to your router, you don't need anything except perhaps a point-of-entry filter on your cable. You can connect the mini to your network via either MOCA (using the P4 as a bridge between the MOCA network and the Ethernet network) or via Ethernet. If you use Ethernet, you will not require the POE filter.


----------



## MsUnderstood (Jun 1, 2004)

lpwcomp said:


> Assuming your Premiere 4 is connected via Ethernet to your router, you don't need anything except perhaps a point-of-entry filter on your cable. You can connect the mini to your network via either MOCA (using the P4 as a bridge between the MOCA network and the Ethernet network) or via Ethernet. If you use Ethernet, you will not require the POE filter.


My premiere 4 is wireless right now so I would need to correct that issue.

I think my setup would be as follows: 
Outside POE filter (since I'll switch to MOCA)
Upstairs: DSL modem/router upstairs connected to MOCA network adapter. 
Upstairs: that MOCA network adapter connects to Mini
downstairs: enable MOCA on Premiere 4 (coax cable already plugged in)
optional: ethernet cable from premiere to xbox to bridge Moca to xbox.

If that is right, I just need to buy POE filter, MOCA adapter, and a mini.


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

MsUnderstood said:


> I think my setup would be as follows:
> Outside POE filter (since I'll switch to MOCA)
> Upstairs: DSL modem/router upstairs connected to MOCA network adapter.
> Upstairs: that MOCA network adapter connects to Mini
> downstairs: enable MOCA on Premiere 4 (coax cable already plugged in)


That should work.



MsUnderstood said:


> optional: ethernet cable from premiere to xbox to bridge Moca to xbox.


Is your XBox not currently connected to the network? Frankly, I have no idea if that will work.



MsUnderstood said:


> If that is right, I just need to buy POE filter, MOCA adapter, and a mini.


Sounds correct.


----------



## MsUnderstood (Jun 1, 2004)

xbox has a wireless adapter to connect. I had read somewhere you can use the premiere as a bridge to give other components MOCA connection. So xbox connection is a bonus. 

Thanks for confirming the setup. My series 3 hard drive is grinding away as we speak--not only noisy but I'm thinking its a sign of deterioration and it would be same cost to replace HD as it would to configure a mini with lifetime contract.


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

MsUnderstood said:


> xbox has a wireless adapter to connect. I had read somewhere you can use the premiere as a bridge to give other components MOCA connection. So xbox connection is a bonus.


Normally, it's used to bridge between a MOCA network which doesn't have direct access to a router and and an Ethernet network which does. As I said, I have no idea if it works in the other direction but it can't hurt to try.

You should contact your cable company. They _*might*_ be willing t install the POE filter at no cost.



MsUnderstood said:


> Thanks for confirming the setup. My series 3 hard drive is grinding away as we speak--not only noisy but I'm thinking its a sign of deterioration and it would be same cost to replace HD as it would to configure a mini with lifetime contract.


Actually, it can be much cheaper to replace a hard drive, particularly if you do it all yourself. Does your series 3 have lifetime? What size drive does it have?


----------



## MsUnderstood (Jun 1, 2004)

lpwcomp said:


> Actually, it can be much cheaper to replace a hard drive, particularly if you do it all yourself. Does your series 3 have lifetime? What size drive does it have?


Cost and convenience are the factors I was thinking of here.

It will cost $149 more to get the mini if I include lifetime on the mini. Hardware only the price breaks even.

I have the expanded 1tb internal on the series 3 now. I had the western digital external for a while and that went out in about 2 years, so when the internal HD quit I replaced that with the 1tb HD in 2010. If I replace the HD its $149 and problem is solved for another 3 years. . .or it could be the HD is just noisy. The TiVo was in the livingroom for years so I didn't notice the extra noise.

So I'm at the intersection of upgrading (downgrading to some) to the mini and getting the same interfaces plus quiet in the bedroom, on demand now and future promise of Netflix or replacing the HD and saving $149.

Decisions, decisions!


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

MsUnderstood said:


> Cost and convenience are the factors I was thinking of here.
> 
> It will cost $149 more to get the mini if I include lifetime on the mini. Hardware only the price breaks even.
> 
> ...


You also have other factors to consider - loss of the two tuners and OTA capability in the S3 and the one tuner in the S4 you would have to allocate to the mini. Then again, you would gain the ability to stream and, as you said, On-Demand. And no longer have the need for the cable card(s) in the S3.

And, as I said, if you DIY or get a friend to do it for you, replacing the hd drive can be done for the cost of a new drive. A 1TB WD Green drive (WD10EZRX) is available from Newegg for $74.99


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> Normally, it's used to bridge between a MOCA network which doesn't have direct access to a router and and an Ethernet network which does. As I said, I have no idea if it works in the other direction but it can't hurt to try.
> 
> You should contact your cable company. They _*might*_ be willing t install the POE filter at no cost.
> 
> Actually, it can be much cheaper to replace a hard drive, particularly if you do it all yourself. Does your series 3 have lifetime? What size drive does it have?


The Bridge on my Premiere Elite works in both directions. I've used it to bridge between MoCA and Ethernet and also to bridge between Ethernet and MoCA.


----------



## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Amazon Instant is a streaming-only service available to Amazon Prime customers. But as of now, no Tivos support Instant. They only support the old pay-to-download service.
> 
> Additionally, the Mini cannot stream Amazon downloads from a Tivo at this point.


You are confusing Prime Instant Video (not on tivo) with Amazon Instant Video (available on tivo)

Actually, Prime Instant Video titles whaich are free for Amazon Prime members, are only available for streaming, and cannot be downloaded.

The more general Amazon instant videos can be purchased or rented and while they can't generally be streamed to TiVo, they can be downloaded to TiVo.


----------



## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

aine said:


> I'm wondering whether there is any downside to replacing the TiVo HD with a new TiVo Mini. I never had a Mini, so I don't know the details. But it seems like there are no disadvantages, are there?


For me the biggest disadvantage is the inability to watch and record OTA content. With a premiere 4 and a mini, you would be out of luck if and when you get fed up with your cable company and want to try cutting the cord.


----------

