# Why must we always be surprised when a release comes out?



## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

really i think it is about time that Tivo has a place to go for the customers (who pay dearly for their boxes and service) to see what is in store for them in the next release. their attitude on this has never been good.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Perhaps TiVo Margret's boss studied what happened to KayPro when they went to B-school. That would be my guess, anyway.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

We aren't their primary source of income, we're their guinea pigs to test software for their larger clients and investors. This isn't a bad thing, but it does flavor my logic when thinking about their business model.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

But upset the guinea pigs enough and they revolt and take over the planet . . . .


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Mikeguy said:


> But upset the guinea pigs enough and they revolt and take over the planet . . . .


Shades of Disney's G-Force!


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## randian (Jan 15, 2014)

ej42137 said:


> Perhaps TiVo Margret's boss studied what happened to KayPro when they went to B-school. That would be my guess, anyway.


Kaypro announced new hardware and then delivered it late. TiVo telling us what's coming in software isn't nearly the same thing.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

and i never understand why folks get so worked up over new releases. Tivo owes us nothing over the functionality it came with, this is all cake.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

samccfl99 said:


> really i think it is about time that Tivo has a place to go for the customers (who pay dearly for their boxes and service) to see what is in store for them in the next release. their attitude on this has never been good.


Seriously? Not a chance on earth. Why would ANY company tell you what's coming? Other than a very general teaser or promo ("Android downloading coming soon!"), no company gives much in the way of "what's in store".

"Their attitude on this" has never changed. It's neither good nor bad, as they don't have one. Your attitude on this however...


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## randian (Jan 15, 2014)

astrohip said:


> Seriously? Not a chance on earth. Why would ANY company tell you what's coming? Other than a very general teaser or promo ("Android downloading coming soon!"), no company gives much in the way of "what's in store".


I think what people are more interested in is a detailed list of bug fixes and new features. Apple is pretty good about that on OSX releases, for example. Tivo is usually overly tight-lipped on the matter.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

To bad they didn't offer an option to postpone receiving the One Pass "upgrade" until they'd figured out how to fix all the stuff it seems to have broken.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

randian said:


> I think what people are more interested in is a detailed list of bug fixes and new features. Apple is pretty good about that on OSX releases, for example. Tivo is usually overly tight-lipped on the matter.


Margret is pretty good about creating a Release Notes thread.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Many companies don't like to expose their problem lists for competitive reasons, particularly the unresolved problems. TiVo's list of problems for a release is often a list of "problems we might have fixed, let's set how it goes" so maybe they don't want to expose themselves too much.

As far as release features go, if you announce them early then when everyone finally gets them it's old news; you want people to try something out while they're still in the honeymoon phase, not when they're beginning to think critically about it. And that's when I want to get my new toy, when it's bright, shiny and fun to play with. Not when all the new has been worn off of it.

I for one don't want them to be promising us more stuff, I'd like to see them delivering more stuff.


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## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

jrtroo said:


> and i never understand why folks get so worked up over new releases. Tivo owes us nothing over the functionality it came with, this is all cake.


They owe us NOTHING??? well i had an XL4 and then replaced that with a Roamio Pro and have been paying them $15 a month since 05-2012, so i think i paid, let me think...so that is over $500 for a guide and not very good thought out mods PLUS over $700 in equipment (yes i did get a very very good deal trading in my XL4 for the roamio pro). THAT IS NOT CAKE, THAT IS A LOT OF BUCKAROOS!! just sayin'.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

jrtroo said:


> and i never understand why folks get so worked up over new releases. Tivo owes us nothing over the functionality it came with, this is all cake.


My TiVo LOST functionality with the 1pass update. True, new functionality was added but that does not replace what was lost and is neither something that I need nor want.

I'd be very happy to have back the functionality mine came with.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

samccfl99 said:


> They owe us NOTHING??? well i had an XL4 and then replaced that with a Roamio Pro and have been paying them $15 a month since 05-2012, so i think i paid, let me think...so that is over $500 for a guide and not very good thought out mods PLUS over $700 in equipment (yes i did get a very very good deal trading in my XL4 for the roamio pro). THAT IS NOT CAKE, THAT IS A LOT OF BUCKAROOS!! just sayin'.


Monthly was your choice as IMHO lifetime is the most cost efficient way to own a TiVo, if you are comfortable selling on E-Bay. When TiVo started they were one of the first electronic equipment co. to provide free updates to the software (with new features) on their units, now many products are doing it, but not many are giving you new features on their updates, just fixing bugs, or security (as in Windows updates). I think Tesla is going to try to update their cars with new features for free, on my Lexus to download an update for the Nav. system they want over $200, for my $60,000 list car, Lifetime updates for the Nav. should be free.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

samccfl99 said:


> They owe us NOTHING??? well i had an XL4 and then replaced that with a Roamio Pro and have been paying them $15 a month since 05-2012, so i think i paid, let me think...so that is over $500 for a guide and not very good thought out mods PLUS over $700 in equipment (yes i did get a very very good deal trading in my XL4 for the roamio pro). THAT IS NOT CAKE, THAT IS A LOT OF BUCKAROOS!! just sayin'.


Shoulda bought lifetime. {insert slap forehead emoticon}

You're paying for guide data. That's it. Updates are icing on the cake. Money has nothing to do with it.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

lessd said:


> I think Tesla is going to try to update their cars with new features for free, on my Lexus to download an update for the Nav. system they want over $200, for my $60,000 list car, Lifetime updates for the Nav. should be free.


I bought a standalone Garmin GPS a couple of years ago for about $250, and it came with lifetime maps (and firmware) and traffic info. If Garmin can offer that, why can't Lexus (and other automakers)? Update extortion is the main reason why I hesitate to buy a built-in GPS in a car. Another reason is that they've always been overpriced.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

samccfl99 said:


> They owe us NOTHING???


So you bought a Tivo for what it may do in the future? No way. What you paid for it is meaningless in this discussion.

I pay a lot for my car too, but it has not gained any features over time. (understanding not everyone likes 1P)


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

astrohip said:


> Shoulda bought lifetime. {insert slap forehead emoticon}
> 
> You're paying for guide data. That's it. Updates are icing on the cake. Money has nothing to do with it.


Really? You think the fee is just for guide data? The same data that is supplied by the cable or sat provider on their units?

If that is really true, then the fee, regardless of 'lifetime' or monthly/annual is outrageous!


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Well, there is a subsidy between the box and the service. Just like with most cell phone plans. Lifetime minimizes that, thus its value.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

lparsons21 said:


> Really? You think the fee is just for guide data? The same data that is supplied by the cable or sat provider on their units?
> 
> If that is really true, then the fee, regardless of 'lifetime' or monthly/annual is outrageous!


What else does the fee cover, if not guide service?

If it's outrageous, don't pay it.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

jrtroo said:


> and i never understand why folks get so worked up over new releases. Tivo owes us nothing over the functionality it came with, this is all cake.


If the boxes kept the functionality it came with, I wouldn't be *****ing. But they seem to drop the features I am using in favor of other stuff I don't need.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

astrohip said:


> What else does the fee cover, if not guide service?
> 
> If it's outrageous, don't pay it.


It also covers software improvements and new features.


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## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

lparsons21 said:


> It also covers software improvements and new features.


Thats rich. tivo development cant program their way out of a paper bag. its sad.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

samccfl99 said:


> Thats rich. tivo development cant program their way out of a paper bag. its sad.


I don't agree though I am new to Tivo. I've had the best both Dish and DirecTV had to offer and find the Roamio to be superb and better overall than either of the sat service's best gear. Dish's Hopper is better for managing the sat service, but doesn't offer the support of so many streaming services as my Tivo does.

Until the Roamio came out I had never considered Tivo as I thought their gear and software just wasn't up to snuff. But that has changed and I'm very well pleased with what Tivo brings to the table. Frankly I wish Dish or Direct had a Tivo offering. Direct did for a bit, but it was based on the piss poor HR22 and just didn't get the job done.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

samccfl99 said:


> Thats rich. tivo development cant program their way out of a paper bag. its sad.


I have been with TiVo from 2001 until now, I think they made great progress in the their DVR market with software improvements, I don't know who has done so much better, MS* Vista * Yes TiVo has gotten stuck in a few paper bags with their software improvements, but I still give them an* A* in that area.


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## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

astrohip said:


> Shoulda bought lifetime. {insert slap forehead emoticon}
> 
> You're paying for guide data. That's it. Updates are icing on the cake. Money has nothing to do with it.


ok, this is ridiculous. how much money do you think people have? most dvrs dont last all that long. i cant believe people use XL4's, let alone whatever was before them for all those years. YIKES!!!


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

lparsons21 said:


> It also covers software improvements and new features.


And also removing features WITHOUT NOTICE and adding new bugs with each release!

You are required to take updates, making the box a bit iffy to keep and expect it to keep working as intended and without lots of bugs each release

The removal of the web videos without notice is a main point. I work for a library network. We used (notice.... used) Tivos to download the web stuff and then take the tivo to schools to show it. tivo did the work getting new episodes, they ran like tv shows, perfect.

Well, I can no longer recommend Tivo's to schools, due to this feature removal WITHOUT notice.

Removing features without notice is 'breach of contract!'


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

samccfl99 said:


> ok, this is ridiculous. how much money do you think people have? most dvrs dont last all that long. i cant believe people use XL4's, let alone whatever was before them for all those years. YIKES!!!


I know of plenty of S3 and S3THD's still out there, not everyone has power user DVR needs, the OLED S3 is still a great machine and the quality of its recording and playback is the same as a brand new Roamio, why wouldn't someone use one with an upgraded 2TB drive if they didn't want the other toys?


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

samccfl99 said:


> ok, this is ridiculous. how much money do you think people have? most dvrs dont last all that long. i cant believe people use XL4's, let alone whatever was before them for all those years. YIKES!!!


And you are completely discounting the resale value of a lifetimed TiVo. For a guy like you who wants the most recent version ("i cant believe people use XL4's) - lifetime is the best option!

You can sell a last gen TiVo for the same cost as the lifetime service on the new gen TiVo.

So If you had purchased an S2 new with lifetime (as I did)... When the S3 came out, sell the S2 and apply toward the S3. Viola - free lifetime / service transfer.

When the S4 comes out - sell the S3 apply toward the S4. Viola - free lifetime / service transfer.

When the S5 comes out - sell the S4 apply toward the S5. Viola - free lifetime / service transfer.

I know elementary math can be hard from some people though...


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

samccfl99 said:


> most dvrs dont last all that long.


My S2 TiVo, purchased both on sale and with a substantial rebate, and still in active use every day (I need a life), celebrates its 10-year anniversary later this month. With its lifetime subscription, it has proven to be, shall we say, cost-effective.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

samccfl99 said:


> ok, this is ridiculous. how much money do you think people have? most dvrs dont last all that long. i cant believe people use XL4's, let alone whatever was before them for all those years. YIKES!!!


I've still got Series 3 TiVos running that I bought Lifetime for in 2006. They replaced Series 2 TiVos for which I had bought Lifetime, by which time the S2 Lifetime charges had been recouped. TiVo DVRs can be expected to payback the Lifetime charge.

Having said that, I want to strongly discourage other people from choosing Lifetime over a monthly plan! Don't make the same mistake that I did! TiVo will collect more money, be more profitable and last longer if you go monthly! Going Lifetime is taking bread from the mouths of TiVoMargret's children!

(Also, buy the extended warranty, but only from TiVo!)


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

lparsons21 said:


> It also covers software improvements and new features.


Not exactly. If there are updates and you are a current subscriber (or lifetimed) with an applicable unit, you will most likely get that update. But your monthly payment doesn't promise that there will be any updates for any specific unit.

Just. Guide. Data.



samccfl99 said:


> Thats rich. tivo development cant program their way out of a paper bag. its sad.


Sorry you feel that way. Those of us enjoying this renaissance of TiVo updates feel the opposite. In the last couple years, I've seen either updates to or additions of Comcast OnDemand, Yahoo Screen, Netflix streaming, streaming between units, Amazon Prime streaming, Season Passes before guide data, integrated streaming/recording passes (OnePass), six tuners, hard drive upgrades right out of the box, yada yada.

I could go on for pages & paragraphs. My TiVo has come so far since the days of a Series 2. Can you name another DVR that has? Genie comes close (I have one), and it's a great unit, but it ain't no TiVo. And no cableco DVR is in the same game, much less ballpark.

You clearly have an agenda, as every one of your posts in the last few days have been bitter, negative comments. Is TiVo perfect? Of course not. Is there anything better? Not in my eyes.



samccfl99 said:


> ok, this is ridiculous. how much money do you think people have? most dvrs dont last all that long. i cant believe people use XL4's, let alone whatever was before them for all those years. YIKES!!!


I have NEVER had to discard a TiVo for failing. I retired my S2 only because I went HD (10+ yrs ago), and just recently gave my still working 2006 S3 to my daughter, for her OTA cord-cutting, antenna watching use. I actively use a Premiere (Elite) and two Roamios.

Most DVRs don't last that long. TiVos aren't most DVRs.

Again, get off your soapbox. You're pissing against the wind here with your meaningless not-based-in-reality diatribe.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

astrohip said:


> Sorry you feel that way. Those of us enjoying this renaissance of TiVo updates feel the opposite. In the last couple years, I've seen either updates to or additions of Comcast OnDemand, Yahoo Screen, Netflix streaming, streaming between units, Amazon Prime streaming, Season Passes before guide data, integrated streaming/recording passes (OnePass), six tuners, hard drive upgrades right out of the box, yada yada.


Let me add that I had looked at Tivo over a few years and was never impressed by what they brought to the table, and if they were still the same as they were then, I still wouldn't have a Tivo. But the Roamio Plus/Pro changed that for me. Finally enough tuners to make it a viable solution for me. Adding all the streaming services that are there now and the ability to change to a much bigger hard drive with little effort, all added up to a fine solution.

I used my Roamio Plus for awhile with nothing but the streaming services as I waited for Mediacom to come and get me connected for TV service. I came very close to not getting cable TV and just use the Roamio as my media center for streaming and using pyTivo to get to my Playon/Playlater server, I felt it was that good and still do.

I've had the best that Dish and Direct offered and while I think both the Hopper and Genie are better at managing the sat tv service, overall the Tivo is a better box because of the things it does that are not cable tv oriented. If the Roamio is a culmination of poor software then I say bring some more!!  If they could add iTunes support to the Tivo, I'd have the whole widget in one box.


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

I gave my lifetime Sony SVR2000 to my daughter.

30G hard drive, runs her cable box using ir

That box was from 1999, silver remote. Still running fine

Hacked from way back, running tivoWeb and I can still get a shell prompt


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## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

astrohip said:


> Most DVRs don't last that long. TiVos aren't most DVRs.
> 
> Again, get off your soapbox. You're pissing against the wind here with your meaningless not-based-in-reality diatribe.


well thank you everyone for your comments. they were all nice and constructive EXCEPT from the above. meaningless not-based-in-reality diatribe (gee, that was hard to type with all the hypens)? nasty. what exactly is a "TC CLUB MEMBER"?

i never knew if u bought a lifetime it transfers to a new tivo you may buy. still its so much money up front.

anyway i do love my tivo and it has been the best dvr i ever had (and have many different ones since the late 90's, dont remember exactly when it started). i love the 2 sided guide and the six tuners always buffering. and i have a RP and its always over 90% full (yes i like to keep things). being in IT for over 25 years i really dont see how worth it the older tivos are. heck, i could not even run my XL4 in HD mode it was so slow. dvr still worked great though. yes i am very critical of their programming.

sorry for stirring you all up!!!


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

samccfl99 said:


> i never knew if u bought a lifetime it transfers to a new tivo you may buy. still its so much money up front.


Sorry that isn't correct, you cannot transfer a lifetime service to a new TiVo.

What I said is that the resale value on a lifetime TiVo (especially a last gen model) is very high and will cover the cost of Lifetime on your brand new TiVo. Conversely, the resale value on a non-lifetimed TiVo is very low - even for a last gen model.

All your value is in the service because it is transferable to the new owner.

A 2 tuner Premiere on eBay / Craigslist will sell for ~ $300 and a 4 tuner will get ~ $350 I think. Even an older S3 model with significantly less functionality will get about $150 for a model with lifetime service.

OTA is a tough nut to crack - for cable users we see complete payoff of the TiVo in less than three years after savings from cable leasing fees. OTA users are paying for convenience alone.

I look at it this way. "A lot of Money" is relative - I paid $800 for my last iPad and $1600 for my last TV.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

bradleys said:


> I look at it this way. "A lot of Money" is relative - I paid $800 for my last iPad and $1600 for my last TV.


And that's part of the reason why I have a Dell Windows 8.1 tablet purchased in a Black Friday-like sale ($99), still have my first flat panel HDTV from 10 years ago ($450, Staples on sale), and purchased my TiVo Roamio set under TiVo's 10-year customer loyalty offer.


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## bob61 (Apr 23, 2002)

philhu said:


> And also removing features WITHOUT NOTICE and adding new bugs with each release!
> 
> Well, I can no longer recommend Tivo's to schools, due to this feature removal WITHOUT notice.
> 
> Removing features without notice is 'breach of contract!'


 Sounds like somebody needs a Snickers bar.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

bob61 said:


> Sounds like somebody needs a Snickers bar.


(Snickers' ad agency loves you for saying that.  )


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

Mikeguy said:


> (Snickers' ad agency loves you for saying that.  )


I did, and still do 

This one change by tivo cost them a sale of 500 units this June.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

philhu said:


> I did, and still do
> This one change by tivo cost them a sale of 500 units this June.


I assume that you've told TiVo as such directly? E.g.:

http://tivoproduction.force.com/Support/apex/ContactTiVoSupport


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

Mikeguy said:


> I assume that you've told TiVo as such directly? E.g.:
> 
> http://tivoproduction.force.com/Support/apex/ContactTiVoSupport


Yes on Tuesday, right after I talked to a CSR, I went up the chain.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Thank you for doing that. :up:

I've sent some emails and had some online chats (each time asking that my concern be passed on)--any additional benefit of speaking live/asking for a supervisor?


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

astrohip said:


> Not exactly. If there are updates and you are a current subscriber (or lifetimed) with an applicable unit, you will most likely get that update. But your monthly payment doesn't promise that there will be any updates for any specific unit. Just. Guide. Data. Sorry you feel that way. Those of us enjoying this renaissance of TiVo updates feel the opposite. In the last couple years, I've seen either updates to or additions of Comcast OnDemand, Yahoo Screen, Netflix streaming, streaming between units, Amazon Prime streaming, Season Passes before guide data, integrated streaming/recording passes (OnePass), six tuners, hard drive upgrades right out of the box, yada yada. I could go on for pages & paragraphs. My TiVo has come so far since the days of a Series 2. Can you name another DVR that has? Genie comes close (I have one), and it's a great unit, but it ain't no TiVo. And no cableco DVR is in the same game, much less ballpark. *You clearly have an agenda, as every one of your posts in the last few days have been bitter, negative comments. Is TiVo perfect? Of course not. Is there anything better? Not in my eyes.* I have NEVER had to discard a TiVo for failing. I retired my S2 only because I went HD (10+ yrs ago), and just recently gave my still working 2006 S3 to my daughter, for her OTA cord-cutting, antenna watching use. I actively use a Premiere (Elite) and two Roamios. Most DVRs don't last that long. TiVos aren't most DVRs. *Again, get off your soapbox. You're pissing against the wind here with your meaningless not-based-in-reality diatribe.*


Be careful, you're going to get a CAPS filled angry, aggressive PM from him now by saying those obvious things to him. I speak from experience. 

On a side note, that is one cute baby in your avatar picture now! Are you a proud new dad or grandpa?


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> Be careful, you're going to get a CAPS filled angry, aggressive PM from him now by saying those obvious things to him. I speak from experience.
> 
> On a side note, that is one cute baby in your avatar picture now! Are you a proud new dad or grandpa?


A CAPS PM would be different, as I noticed his posts usually don't have any caps, not even first letters of sentences. My OCD kicks in every time I read stuff like that. 

First grandkid! Last week. I'm trying to avoid posting facebook pics every 30 minutes. Is there anything more irritating than a new grandparent?

Thanks for asking!


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## JWhites (May 15, 2013)

astrohip said:


> Margret is pretty good about creating a Release Notes thread.


I've hardly seen any for the Mini and Stream though.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

JWhites said:


> I've hardly seen any for the Mini and Stream though.


She has included updates specific to the Mini within the main Roamio update notes.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

astrohip said:


> A CAPS PM would be different, as I noticed his posts usually don't have any caps, not even first letters of sentences. My OCD kicks in every time I read stuff like that.  First grandkid! Last week. I'm trying to avoid posting facebook pics every 30 minutes. Is there anything more irritating than a new grandparent? Thanks for asking!


Very cool, way to go Gramps!

Read his older posts, he goes way overboard with it. I know, I do it sometimes for emphasis of a word or phrase but I even think it's excessive so it must be bad, haha!


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## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

*MR HARPERVISON AND MR ASTROHIP:

HERE ARE YOUR CAPS. PLEASE STOP TALKING ABOUT ME. yes i do not really like to capitalize. actually that is the only part of grammar i like to ignore. UNLESS YOU HAVE BEEN IN PROGRAMMING AND PROJECT MANAGEMENT IN BANKING FOR OVER 25 YEARS, YOU DO NOT REALLY KNOW WHAT THE REAL IT WORLD IS LIKE AND HOW MUCH TESTING SHOULD BE DONE. I LOVE PC'S, BUT THEY HAVE RUINED THE WONDERFUL RECORD OF THE GREAT MAINFRAME MANUFACTURERS WHO HAD COMPLETE CONTROL OF HARDWARE, FIRMWARE AND SOFTWARE. YES, THOSE WERE THE DAYS....LOL. NOT REALLY, IT WAS ALOT OF WORK!!! I AM GOING TO BE 60 THIS YEAR SO I HAVE SEEN ALOT.

AND I SEE WE HAVE A PENDING RESTART THREAD ON 20.4.7 (Too bad the priority list has not got to me yet, maybe Sat (Capitalized!) morning). I ALREADY SAW SOME COMMENTS ABOUT WHAT IS IN THERE. NOTHING!!!!! OOOOOH, THEY FIXED THE ANIMATION. WHAT, THEY COULD NOT FIX IT IN 20.4.6a? (but to be truthful, even though they did not fix the length, they did seem to fix the cable card not activating all the way before full startup) LOL.

Have a wonderful day!!!
*
:down::up:

p.s. to the moderator, whomever that may be, sorry for this little dustup. i really hate it when people get bashed. it is perfectly ok for someone to bash tivo, but not people in the forum (NO CAPS...LOL)


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

samccfl99 said:


> MR HARPERVISON AND MR ASTROHIP: HERE ARE YOUR CAPS. PLEASE STOP TALKING ABOUT ME. yes i do not really like to capitalize. actually that is the only part of grammar i like to ignore. UNLESS YOU HAVE BEEN IN PROGRAMMING AND PROJECT MANAGEMENT IN BANKING FOR OVER 25 YEARS, YOU DO NOT REALLY KNOW WHAT THE REAL IT WORLD IS LIKE AND HOW MUCH TESTING SHOULD BE DONE. I LOVE PC'S, BUT THEY HAVE RUINED THE WONDERFUL RECORD OF THE GREAT MAINFRAME MANUFACTURERS WHO HAD COMPLETE CONTROL OF HARDWARE, FIRMWARE AND SOFTWARE. YES, THOSE WERE THE DAYS....LOL. NOT REALLY, IT WAS ALOT OF WORK!!! I AM GOING TO BE 60 THIS YEAR SO I HAVE SEEN ALOT. AND I SEE WE HAVE A PENDING RESTART THREAD ON 20.4.7 (Too bad the priority list has not got to me yet, maybe Sat (Capitalized!) morning). I ALREADY SAW SOME COMMENTS ABOUT WHAT IS IN THERE. NOTHING!!!!! OOOOOH, THEY FIXED THE ANIMATION. WHAT, THEY COULD NOT FIX IT IN 20.4.6a? (but to be truthful, even though they did not fix the length, they did seem to fix the cable card not activating all the way before full startup) LOL. Have a wonderful day!!! :down::up: p.s. to the moderator, whomever that may be, sorry for this little dustup. i really hate it when people get bashed. it is perfectly ok for someone to bash tivo, but not people in the forum (NO CAPS...LOL)


I rest my case, your honor!


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

samccfl99 said:


> *MR HARPERVISON AND MR ASTROHIP:
> 
> HERE ARE YOUR CAPS. PLEASE STOP TALKING ABOUT ME. yes i do not really like to capitalize. actually that is the only part of grammar i like to ignore. UNLESS YOU HAVE BEEN IN PROGRAMMING AND PROJECT MANAGEMENT IN BANKING FOR OVER 25 YEARS, YOU DO NOT REALLY KNOW WHAT THE REAL IT WORLD IS LIKE AND HOW MUCH TESTING SHOULD BE DONE. I LOVE PC'S, BUT THEY HAVE RUINED THE WONDERFUL RECORD OF THE GREAT MAINFRAME MANUFACTURERS WHO HAD COMPLETE CONTROL OF HARDWARE, FIRMWARE AND SOFTWARE. YES, THOSE WERE THE DAYS....LOL. NOT REALLY, IT WAS ALOT OF WORK!!! I AM GOING TO BE 60 THIS YEAR SO I HAVE SEEN ALOT.
> 
> ...


The other part of grammar you ignore is having a point or making any sense.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

(All sides understood. And now, back to our regularly-scheduled thread programming . . . .)


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

samccfl99 said:


> I AM GOING TO BE 60 THIS YEAR SO I HAVE SEEN ALOT.


See, we already have something in common. October for me. You?



Mikeguy said:


> (All sides understood. And now, back to our regularly-scheduled thread programming . . . .)


I hate to confess this, but I have no idea what this thread started as. Need to go back and look at the header.


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## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

astrohip said:


> See, we already have something in common. October for me. You?
> 
> I hate to confess this, but I have no idea what this thread started as. Need to go back and look at the header.


well i am the crazy one who created this mess...LOL. it was before i knew someone does publish some release notes. useless ones i might add. nothing new really in 20.4.7 (i personally have not been endowed with it yet). i think they made their big yearly splash with the OnePass....LOL. so now that i know and we all know what is probably in it, THIS THREAD IS NOW USELESS....LOL. HAPPY HOLIDAY, WHICHEVER IT MAY BE FOR EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU.

*ps, i am a Sag so it is December for me. do you remember 1200 Baud modems (even for banks) and dumb crts or 3-way "high speed" internet with 512K down from the cable and 56K going up thru the modem, Astrohip?...LOL. and dare i say...BBS'??? i am sure u do.*


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

samccfl99 said:


> well i am the crazy one who created this mess...LOL. *it was before i knew someone does publish some release notes. useless ones i might add.* nothing new really in 20.4.7 (i personally have not been endowed with it yet). i think they made their big yearly splash with the OnePass....LOL. so now that i know and we all know what is probably in it, THIS THREAD IS NOW USELESS....LOL. HAPPY HOLIDAY, WHICHEVER IT MAY BE FOR EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU.


How are the release notes that TivoMargret posts "useless"? I think most of us find them most useful and helpful.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

dianebrat said:


> How are the release notes that TivoMargret posts "useless"? I think most of us find them most useful and helpful.


And much better than no notes!!


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

lessd said:


> And much better than no notes!!


"Useless" is how I would characterize any post by samccfl99. Also decipherable, poorly formatted, ungrammatical and content-free.


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