# Latest DirecTv Lie



## narrod (Nov 23, 2002)

I called into to complain about the audio dropouts and recording failures since 6.3
was installed. Wonder of wonders, I AM THE VERY FIRST PERSON TO COMPLAIN ABOUT PROBLEMS WITH THE NEW SOFTWARE. You would think I was talking to Microsoft technical support (there are no software bugs, only undocumented features).

Seriously, they need to be bombarded with calls to technical support.

-Wendell


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

It really bothers me how companies do this.


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## jfischer (Oct 14, 1999)

That's the 2nd CSR rule. 

The first rule is "always put the customer on hold", it takes some of the fight out of them.

The 2nd rule is "never admit you've heard of the problem the customer is reporting - even if it's the 100th call you've taken today about the same issue".

Seems to be standard operating procedure across the board.


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## CessnaDriver (Oct 25, 2003)

jfischer said:


> That's the 2nd CSR rule.
> 
> The first rule is "always put the customer on hold", it takes some of the fight out of them.
> 
> ...


Rule #3 - Hire "Bob Smith" from New Delhi so nobody can understand the accent and get frustrated


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## Todd (Oct 7, 1999)

Well, has anyone else actually called??


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## gquiring (Dec 13, 2002)

They do lie, when I called about them pulling TNT and UHD for NFL they denied it and then changed their story to only this week. Got bumped up the chain and more denials. D* went from being the best company to the worst in 2 short years.


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

Yup same treatment here. There have been several of us from Colorado calling in to complain about missing guide data for NBC/KOAA on the HR10-250, and EVERY SINGLE TIME any of us call, we get the "hmmm this is the first time we have heard about this problem" crapola. It drives me nuts. I flat out told them that I knew for a fact that this is untrue, that several other D* customers have called about resolving this exact issue. 

Do they think we never talk to other D* customers about service problems?  :down:


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## redram38 (Apr 17, 2004)

The rep I spoke with told me they were being flooded with calls complaining about 6.3a problems. From audio drops to constant rebooting troubles


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

CessnaDriver said:


> Rule #3 - Hire "Bob Smith" from New Delhi so nobody can understand the accent and get frustrated


Funny, whenever I speak with someone in Texas I can't understand the accent. They all talk like uneducated hicks. I'd much rather speak with someone in India who at least has a grasp of the fundemental rules of the English language.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

SpankyInChicago said:


> Funny, whenever I speak with someone in Texas I can't understand the accent. They all talk like uneducated hicks. I'd much rather speak with someone in India who at least has a grasp of the fundemental rules of the English language.


Since I'm a transplanted Texan, I'll use pictures since you wouldn't be able to understand me otherwise:

















Did you understand that?


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## austinsho (Oct 21, 2001)

Ah, David, I see you're a man of few...but well-chosen...words!

:up: :up: :up:


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## Mad Hatter (Oct 3, 2006)

I don't have an HD version, but they recently railroaded me into their DVR when my Tivo unit stopped receiving local channels.

What a piece of junk! 

I've been the phone relentlessly and have never experienced such awful service and unintelligent strategy in my life. 

One tech did admit to the software bug that went out in the last update, and that it is causing freeze ups. If you want to delete everything that is stored, it can fix it for up to 4 whole days.

When asking to escalate the complaint, I was instructed to write a letter to the Office of the President. A lot of good that will do. It's written now, but I can't believe where this company has gone.

If not DirectTV where do we go to get back with Tivo?


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## TomRaz (Mar 1, 2002)

Love you simple way of communicating David !

Rule #1 is outsource to another country where everyone has american sounding names

Rule #2 Put customer on hold many times to act as though you are helping them out by researching something

Rule #3 A supervisor or manager is never available

Rule #4 Make sure the CSR's accent is bad enough that you can only understand about every 5th word they say

Rule #5 Replace failing equipment under D* protection program and they try to tell the customer that changes the terms of their contract

Rule #6 Have a D* Tivo remote fail and then have D* send you one of their universal remotes and act like it has all the same buttons and functions as your original tivo remote

Rule #7 Put many new satelites in orbit but offer the same number of HD channels other than locals and act like your HD package is the best

Rule #8 Make a change the the customers profile when the call in to ask a question and then stop sending them their bill and then send them a email telling they are past due

Rule #9 Stop using newer Tivo products in favor of your own cooked up POS

Rule #10 Remove HD channels such as TNT to make way for Sunday Ticket Football. 

Flame off


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## srt (Jan 27, 2006)

David Platt said:


>


You must have brought that piece of hardware with you, being it's not all rusted and junk.
I must have found my way to d*'s worst customers. I have done only one ppv, and no premiums except hd, and I foced them to give me hd networks because we have no ota anywhere near.
In the 1o months I've been a customer, the only thing I can say is that I have only 14 months to go, and the last 4 csr calls I've made were routed to so oregon, where the people are communicatable, yet endorse the position that d* walks on water. There is no problems, it it us=used.


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## Jeproks (May 2, 2002)

TomRaz said:


> Rule #8 Make a change the the customers profile when the call in to ask a question and then stop sending them their bill and then send them a email telling they are past due


You can add: Tell the customer to call the post office and open an investigation for missing bill from DTV after they do Rule #8.


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## TomRaz (Mar 1, 2002)

The best part about Rule #8 was I had to make 3 phone calls over a 2 month period asking them to please send me a paper bill. 

It is pretty sad when you have to beg a company to send you a bill !


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## Mavrick22 (Feb 7, 2006)

CessnaDriver said:


> Rule #3 - Hire "Bob Smith" from New Delhi so nobody can understand the accent and get frustrated


Are you sure that it was not Apu handling D* CSR calls from the back room of the quickie mart.

For I heard that he had gotten a second job with them to keep him busy when things are slow at the quickie mart.


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## Budget_HT (Jan 2, 2001)

TomRaz said:


> The best part about Rule #8 was I had to make 3 phone calls over a 2 month period asking them to please send me a paper bill.
> 
> It is pretty sad when you have to beg a company to send you a bill !


After receiving a threat from DirecTV to turn off our service after not seeing a bill for three months, I called and paid the balance by phone and insisted on a paper bill. I never requested otherwise, verbally nor via email nor on their web site.

At first we were not concerned because we were still using up a $200 credit received after fighting DirecTV for 7 months to get a rebate.

I wonder if they automatically converted everyone for whom they had an email address to email billing only (stopping the paper bill)?


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## drjjr (May 28, 2004)

For the first time in the 10 years that I've had Directv I saw my account was past-due when I logged in a few weeks ago to cancel Sunday Ticket. I have not enrolled in any online billing option and now that you mention it, I STILL haven't seen a paper bill even though it should be due again (I settled all the "past due" statements with a one-time payment). Time to check the web site.


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## CessnaDriver (Oct 25, 2003)

SpankyInChicago said:


> Funny, whenever I speak with someone in Texas I can't understand the accent. They all talk like uneducated hicks. I'd much rather speak with someone in India who at least has a grasp of the fundemental rules of the English language.


Wow, good one from the miserable liberal from the suburbs of Chicago.


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## charlieg (May 31, 2002)

Budget_HT said:


> After receiving a threat from DirecTV to turn off our service after not seeing a bill for three months, I called and paid the balance by phone and insisted on a paper bill. I never requested otherwise, verbally nor via email nor on their web site.
> 
> At first we were not concerned because we were still using up a $200 credit received after fighting DirecTV for 7 months to get a rebate.
> 
> I wonder if they automatically converted everyone for whom they had an email address to email billing only (stopping the paper bill)?


 Same problem here. it took three emails before they responded and that was only after I mentioned ending my five year relationship with D* if this policy continues. The retention rep I spoke with was very nice but had no explanation as to why paper billing stopped other than to say that they recently updated their systems and it required having things one way or the other. I suspect what that meant is that if you had any sort of email notifications enabled on your account, they took the liberty of switching you over to ebilling. In any event, they quickly credited me back the $5 late charge they had assessed on my account and then proceeded to offer me all sorts of upgrades (5 LNB dish, HR20-700). I declined for the time being (waiting on the slimline dish and for a clue as to when Verizon might be getting FiOS to my area before getting into a 2-year commitment) with a note on my account that I could have the upgrades for free at the time of my choosing.

- Charlie


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## fjwagner (Jan 22, 2006)

SpankyInChicago said:


> Funny, whenever I speak with someone in Texas I can't understand the accent. They all talk like uneducated hicks. I'd much rather speak with someone in India who at least has a grasp of the fundemental rules of the English language.


So, Mr. Educated, where did you learn to spell? In Texas, we spell the word in question as "fundamental".


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

fjwagner said:


> So, Mr. Educated, where did you learn to spell? In Texas, we spell the word in question as "fundamental".


Up here in Illinois, we put the period inside the quotes at the end of a "sentence." I think your average Indian would understand this simple rule. I wouldn't expect it of an average Texan.


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

CessnaDriver said:


>


Why are your confused? I was simply pointing out your racist little comment about Indians is way off the mark. The reality of the situation is that the average Indian that speaks English is likely to have a better grasp of the language than your average Texan.

If you are going to make incindiary comments about foreign peoples on a board that has nothing to do with such discussion topcis, please understand that you are going to hear from people that disagree with you.


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## fjwagner (Jan 22, 2006)

SpankyInChicago said:


> Up here in Illinois, we put the period inside the quotes at the end of a "sentence." I think your average Indian would understand this simple rule. I wouldn't expect it of an average Texan.


What is your problem? Do you have a size inferiority complex? Let's see, the Texas economy is second in the US behind California. I doubt that could be accomplished with a bunch of idiots running around.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Texas


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

SpankyInChicago said:


> Why are your confused? I was simply pointing out your racist little comment about Indians is way off the mark. The reality of the situation is that the average Indian that speaks English is likely to have a better grasp of the language than your average Texan.
> 
> If you are going to make incindiary comments about foreign peoples on a board that has nothing to do with such discussion topcis, please understand that you are going to hear from people that disagree with you.


So...you 'disagree' with him by insulting all Texans, while making incindiary comments of your own? And you see this as being okay? :down:


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## drjjr (May 28, 2004)

Awesome thread...can we talk about whose dad can beat up the other's?

Since the thread has gone OT, back to the billing issue. I called Directv this morning and the rep claimed that I was on "email billing" since July and that I should have had an email explaining it. And yes, it was a barely coherent rep that was explaining this to me. Although I couldn't decide if it was a by-product of my Houston upbringing. At any rate, they have now switched me back to paper bills. If you're having the same problems I suspect the same "email-only" bill swicheroo happened to you, too and they (supposedly) can fix it with a phone call.


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## bigviking (Sep 16, 2006)

SpankyInChicago said:


> Why are your confused? I was simply pointing out your racist little comment about Indians is way off the mark. The reality of the situation is that the average Indian that speaks English is likely to have a better grasp of the language than your average Texan.
> 
> If you are going to make incindiary comments about foreign peoples on a board that has nothing to do with such discussion topcis, please understand that you are going to hear from people that disagree with you.


Since when can pointing out a fact be racist ? Somehow in your mind it is racist to imply that people from India may not speak very good english ? My German is very poor, but I wouldn't accuse someone of being a racist simply because they said that my German wasn't very good.

Anyone that has spent much time on the phone with support centers outside the US can certainly relate to the simple fact that the language barrier is sometimes an issue, and NO, this is not a racist statement. False statements like this really do a great deal of harm in that they make people less aware of true racism.


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## CessnaDriver (Oct 25, 2003)

bigviking said:


> Since when can pointing out a fact be racist ? Somehow in your mind it is racist to imply that people from India may not speak very good english ? My German is very poor, but I wouldn't accuse someone of being a racist simply because they said that my German wasn't very good.
> 
> Anyone that has spent much time on the phone with support centers outside the US can certainly relate to the simple fact that the language barrier is sometimes an issue, and NO, this is not a racist statement. False statements like this really do a great deal of harm in that they make people less aware of true racism.


Thanks bigviking! At least someone got the point of my message.

I am not racist at all. I was simply poking fun at an ever increasing problem with telephone customer service and support.

The lib in Chicago (forgot their handle) misunderstood the intent of my message and responded with an insult to Texans - and the irony is that I am not even a native Texan. Hilarious.


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## diagoro (Jul 2, 2004)

Same billing issues here. From what I was told, anyone that accesses their account is automatically switched to online only billing. This is done via a check-box somewhere on the page that is defaulted to a checked state. 

This happened to me twice and I'm guessing that the box is hard to see, at least in a place where one wouldn't normally look. It's really sad if DirecTv things they have to take really cheap measures like this to save a few bucks........


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

SpankyInChicago said:


> Funny, whenever I speak with someone in Texas I can't understand the accent. They all talk like uneducated hicks.


Congratulations. You are the winner.


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## AAhitman (Nov 18, 2002)

drjjr said:


> Awesome thread...can we talk about whose dad can beat up the other's?
> 
> I'm putting my Dad on a plane right now to come down there and whoop your dad.


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## austinsho (Oct 21, 2001)

CessnaDriver said:


> Wow, good one from the miserable liberal from the suburbs of Chicago.





CessnaDriver said:


> The lib in Chicago (forgot their handle) misunderstood the intent of my message and responded with an insult to Texans - and the irony is that I am not even a native Texan. Hilarious.


Don't insult liberals.


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## narrod (Nov 23, 2002)

This subject has gone way off track from my original posting. I'm not interested in ridiculing Texans or Indians. I am interested in knowing that everyone experiencing 6.3a problems is calling DirecTv with a service complaint. *****ing on this forum may be therepeutic but it is not going to accomplish anything. After 6 years, I'm just about fed up with the declining quality of every aspect of DirecTv. I hate the thought of returning to cable and have no ideal when FIOS will be available in Louisville.

-Wendell


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

narrod said:


> I'm not interested in ridiculing Texans or Indians.


What about 'Texas Indians?'


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

Sir_whinealot said:


> So...you 'disagree' with him by insulting all Texans, while making incindiary comments of your own? And you see this as being okay? :down:


Yes, my statement was pretty ludicrous, wasn't it?

I am sure the point will come to you if you think hard enough.

I have to try to remember that the average person only has an IQ of 100, and such ironical commentaries may be lost on those folks.

But, my point remains.


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

bigviking said:


> Anyone that has spent much time on the phone with support centers outside the US can certainly relate to the simple fact that the language barrier is sometimes an issue


That is not a "simple fact" just because you believe it to be so.

Did you consider that perhaps the shortcoming is not in their language skills, but rather in yours? Or perhaps the shortcoming is in your listening skills.

I speak with people in India, the UK, New York, Texas, Louisiana, China, and others all the time. They all speak with accents by my ear. They all speak differently than I do. Yet, as long as they are speaking English, I have no problem understanding them.

And I certainly make no assertion as to their skill with the English language based simply on their accent.

You do realize that having an accent indicates absolutely nothing as to a person's ability with a given language, right?

If you can't understand someone with an accent, the problem is not theirs, it is yours.


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## jbradway (Sep 30, 2001)

SpankyInChicago said:


> Why are your confused? I was simply pointing out your racist little comment about Indians is way off the mark. *The reality of the situation is that the average Indian that speaks English is likely to have a better grasp of the language than your average Texan.*
> If you are going to make incindiary comments about foreign peoples on a board that has nothing to do with such discussion topcis, please understand that you are going to hear from people that disagree with you.


As Californian who works for a company who's corporate HQ is in TX and also has a huge help desk presence based in India, I can tell you that your opinion is not an accurate one from my perspective. I make an average of several hundred calls a month between TX and India. I can tell you that 95% of the time I can communicate with person with a TX accent better than then an Indian accent.


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## fjwagner (Jan 22, 2006)

SpankyInChicago said:


> Did you consider that perhaps the shortcoming is not in their language skills, but rather in yours? Or perhaps the shortcoming is in your listening skills.
> 
> Yet, as long as they are speaking English, I have no problem understanding them.
> 
> ...


*A man of inconsistencies.  *



SpankyInChicago said:


> Funny, whenever I speak with someone in Texas I can't understand the accent. They all talk like uneducated hicks.


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## Markman07 (Jul 18, 2001)

Hi, What is this?


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

fjwagner said:


> *A man of inconsistencies.  *


The two posts you quoted are not inconsistent when you comprehend the intention of my first post in this thread.

I realize that not everyone is capable of comprehending the nuances of such commentary. If you are one of those people, then you'll just have to be satisfied with the ignorance of your ignorance.


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## bigviking (Sep 16, 2006)

SpankyInChicago said:


> That is not a "simple fact" just because you believe it to be so.
> 
> Did you consider that perhaps the shortcoming is not in their language skills, but rather in yours? Or perhaps the shortcoming is in your listening skills.
> 
> ...


Yes, it is absolutely 100% true that (and I quote) "the language barrier is sometimes an issue".

This is absolutely 100% true, I didn't say it's always a problem, but yes, it is sometimes a problem. You are simply not dealing with reality if you don't think that these call centers sometimes create problems because of the language barrier. You must really hate your country to imply that people from another country speak our language better than we do.


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## Skankboy (Nov 20, 2002)

CessnaDriver said:


> Wow, good one from the miserable liberal from the suburbs of Chicago.


How do you know he is miserable or liberal?


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

bigviking said:


> You must really hate your country to imply that people from another country speak our language better than we do.


Now I hate my country? Brilliant deduction.

Our language? English, along with Hindi, are the only two languages - of the hundreds of languages spoken in India - that can be used to conduct official business in India. In addition, 150 million people in India speak English. Those 150 million people represent the second largest English speaking population in the world. I would say that you might considering allocating them a little of the ownership of "our" language.


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## alaskahill (Dec 21, 2001)

eeesh... Direct TV CSRs may be misinformed and speak with accents but at least they don't call you names when you call them (applies to both side of the silly debate here). :down:


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## Skankboy (Nov 20, 2002)

bigviking said:


> You must really hate your country to imply that people from another country speak our language better than we do.


And how does that make any kind of sense?


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

SpankyInChicago said:


> I am sure the point will come to you if you think hard enough.
> 
> I have to try to remember that the average person only has an IQ of 100, and such ironical commentaries may be lost on those folks.





SpankyInChicago said:


> I realize that not everyone is capable of comprehending the nuances of such commentary. If you are one of those people, then you'll just have to be satisfied with the ignorance of your ignorance.


So let me get this straight. You make some inflammatory comments with no hint that you were trying to make a point. Then you come back later after you have some negative reaction to those comments and claim that anyone who did not understand the nuances of your statement is either too stupid or ignorant?


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## fjwagner (Jan 22, 2006)

SpankyInChicago said:


> Up here in Illinois, we put the period inside the quotes at the end of a "sentence." I think your average Indian would understand this simple rule. I wouldn't expect it of an average Texan.


Mr. Spanky - I was not incorrect putting your misspelled word in quotes before the period. I was not quoting your whole sentence, just one misspelled word in your sentence. I pointed out your spelling only after you make your inane comments about the intelligence of Texans.

Put a period, dash, question mark, or exclamation point within closing quotation marks when the punctuation applies to the quotation itself and outside when it applies to the whole sentence.

You make inconsistent comments, generalize populations of people as being ignorant, call me ignorant directly; all without basis or reason.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

Mark Lopez said:


> So let me get this straight. You make some inflammatory comments with no hint that you were trying to make a point. Then you come back later after you have some negative reaction to those comments and claim that anyone who did not understand the nuances of your statement is either too stupid or ignorant?


Umm, I can't believe I'm about to say this, but:

I agree with Mark Lopez.


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## bigviking (Sep 16, 2006)

Skankboy said:


> How do you know he is miserable or liberal?


It's obvious that he is a lib because of his preference to rip on US citizens (Texans in this case). 99.9% of all people that try to always rip on us as a country are libs. For some reason, they want the US to always be the bad guy.

Ask him who he has voted for in the past couple elections, I wont be a surprise at all.


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## henryld (Aug 16, 2005)

Mark Lopez said:


> So let me get this straight. You make some inflammatory comments with no hint that you were trying to make a point. Then you come back later after you have some negative reaction to those comments and claim that anyone who did not understand the nuances of your statement is either too stupid or ignorant?


Guess you have to be a card carrying member of Mensa to comprehend this guy; sure leaves me out. Maybe he would be kind enough to explain the "nuances/ironies" of his statement or must I continue to suffer from my ignorance.


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

Mark Lopez said:


> So let me get this straight. You make some inflammatory comments with no hint that you were trying to make a point. Then you come back later after you have some negative reaction to those comments and claim that anyone who did not understand the nuances of your statement is either too stupid or ignorant?


Of course there was a hint that I was trying to make a point. The fact that the hint is not visible to you is your shortcoming, not mine.

Please try to keep up.


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

fjwagner said:


> Mr. Spanky - I was not incorrect putting your misspelled word in quotes before the period. I was not quoting your whole sentence, just one misspelled word in your sentence. I pointed out your spelling only after you make your inane comments about the intelligence of Texans.
> 
> Put a period, dash, question mark, or exclamation point within closing quotation marks when the punctuation applies to the quotation itself and outside when it applies to the whole sentence.


Wrong.

You were fine to put the word in quotation marks. You should have put the period inside the quotes as well. You put the period on the outside of the quotes. That is what I was calling you on.

In American English you do not ever put the period outside the quotation mark.

This is "correct."

This is not "correct".


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

bigviking said:


> It's obvious that he is a lib because of his preference to rip on US citizens (Texans in this case). 99.9% of all people that try to always rip on us as a country are libs. For some reason, they want the US to always be the bad guy.
> 
> Ask him who he has voted for in the past couple elections, I wont be a surprise at all.


Explain to me what you think a liberal is and I will tell you whether or not I fit your definition of a liberal. My guess is that your definition of a "liberal" probably closely resembles what Fox News and Rush told you about those evil "liberals."

As far as "ripping" on people, I am an equal opportunity ripper. No one group of people is any better or any worse than any other group of people. I know that people with limited world views (radical Muslims, radical Christians) need to define the world as us vs. them, good vs. evil, Democrat vs. Republican, liberal vs. conservative, etc. This is because they don't have the capacity to contemplate a world that involves complexity, nuance, subtlety, and shades of gray. I do not subscribe to such a black / white world view. If that makes me a liberal, then I certainly wouldn't want to be anything else.


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

henryld said:


> Guess you have to be a card carrying member of Mensa to comprehend this guy; sure leaves me out. Maybe he would be kind enough to explain the "nuances/ironies" of his statement or must I continue to suffer from my ignorance.


1. A wildly broad and general statement with a negative assertion about Indians is made.

2. In response, a wildly broad and general statement with a negative assertion about Texans is made.

Get it now?


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## willardcpa (Feb 23, 2001)

SpankyInChicago said:


> Up here in Illinois, we put the period inside the quotes at the end of a "sentence." I think your average Indian would understand this simple rule. I wouldn't expect it of an average Texan.


Actually, this statement is probably untrue. The "period inside the quotes at the end of a sentence" (note that was not the end of the sentence).  Is an "American English" convention. The English do it the other way, and since India was part of the British Empire until 1948 (or so, don't want to get corrected on dates), I would imagine that Indians would not "understand this simple rule."  Unless, of course, he was taking his adoption of the "Bob Smith" persona to its greatest height.


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## fjwagner (Jan 22, 2006)

SpankyInChicago said:


> Wrong.
> 
> You were fine to put the word in quotation marks. You should have put the period inside the quotes as well. You put the period on the outside of the quotes. That is what I was calling you on.
> 
> ...


I disagree. Any English majors out there. I am just an ignorant MS Engineering.

1) "This is a proper use of quotations". I agree this is right and follows the first part of the rule below. This is what you are referencing.

2) I pointed out that you misspelled "fundamental". This was my usage and is correct per the following rule (2). My quotations are for the word only.

1) Put a period, dash, question mark, or exclamation point within closing quotation marks when the punctuation applies to the quotation itself and 2) outside when it applies to the whole sentence. My usage refers to the second part of the rule.

I don't mind this debate sans the name calling.


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## bigviking (Sep 16, 2006)

SpankyInChicago said:


> Explain to me what you think a liberal is and I will tell you whether or not I fit your definition of a liberal. My guess is that your definition of a "liberal" probably closely resembles what Fox News and Rush told you about those evil "liberals."
> 
> As far as "ripping" on people, I am an equal opportunity ripper. No one group of people is any better or any worse than any other group of people. I know that people with limited world views (radical Muslims, radical Christians) need to define the world as us vs. them, good vs. evil, Democrat vs. Republican, liberal vs. conservative, etc. This is because they don't have the capacity to contemplate a world that involves complexity, nuance, subtlety, and shades of gray. I do not subscribe to such a black / white world view. If that makes me a liberal, then I certainly wouldn't want to be anything else.


A liberal:

1) Always puts other countries first (in this case it's India)

2) Is extremely eager to play the race card, even when there is no racism

3) Sometime goes by the name of an "independent", but his voting record speaks for itself. Not all "independent's" are libs, but many really are, they just feel that it is more fashionable than the term "democrat"

4) Thinks the US has something to learn from countries like France and Germany. There is nothing in these countries history that makes me want to look towards them for advice on how to best deal with our problems

5) Doesn't dispute being a liberal

So it appears that the original statement about your being a lib was correct.

Why does it offend you if thats what you are ?


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## Skankboy (Nov 20, 2002)

bigviking said:


> It's obvious that he is a lib because of his preference to rip on US citizens (Texans in this case). 99.9% of all people that try to always rip on us as a country are libs. For some reason, they want the US to always be the bad guy.


That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.


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## Skankboy (Nov 20, 2002)

bigviking said:


> A liberal:
> 
> 1) Always puts other countries first (in this case it's India)
> 
> ...


I retract my last statement. This one takes the cake.


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## willardcpa (Feb 23, 2001)

SpankyInChicago said:


> ....In American English you do not ever put the period outside the quotation mark.....


"do not ever" Kind of implies to me the author is one of those "English major grammar nazis."  I dare say that most folks would just say "never"?
Correcting someones grammar gets about the same reaction as telling them their eyes are set too close together. And insulting Texans speech patterns will get you about as warm a reception as you would receive if you asked them if their mother and father were siblings!


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## Mikehdtv (Feb 18, 2004)

To bigviking:

Definition of a Conservative... 

Pretend to be a supporter of childrens rights then IM teenage boys while masturbating. And when your leadership finds out they try to cover it up.


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## henryld (Aug 16, 2005)

SpankyInChicago said:


> 1. A wildly broad and general statement with a negative assertion about Indians is made.
> 
> 2. In response, a wildly broad and general statement with a negative assertion about Texans is made.
> 
> Get it now?


I do not think the term "wildly" applies. He expressed difficulty understanding the Indian CSR's and I have experienced the same. This is a very common problem, from all that I have read in various news sources, since the advent of outsourcing to offshore entities. He did not question the inteligence of the operatives, as you did.

Methinks Spanky needs a spanking.

BTW. I find your definition of a liberal thought provoking.


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## willardcpa (Feb 23, 2001)

Mikehdtv said:


> To bigviking:
> 
> Definition of a Conservative...
> 
> Pretend to be a supporter of childrens rights then IM teenage boys while masturbating. And when your leadership finds out they try to cover it up.


Let's see, they tried to cover it up because, being convservative, they knew that was bad behavior and would have a negative effect upon the "one handed typist." (quotes outside of period  )
From the way the statement is put together I gather that liberals would not try to cover it up.
Is that because they do not think it is "bad behavior"?

Just wanted to keep the tenor of this thread going in the direction that it is. 

Just goes to show you how much civil liberties in this county are being infringed upon. If its not OK to masturabate while you are IMing somebody then when is it OK?? 

From what I have been able to absorb on this issue - it's not what he was doing when he was IMing that got him in trouble, but what he said in the IMs.


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## Draven X. Byrne (Jun 2, 2003)

As an anarchist in Chicago I say this whole F'ing thread is dumb as a box of rocks! Any rebuttal that has to dig into grammar is just plain stupid in my opinion - shows a weak argument in my book.

If any rocks out there are offended, then I offer my deepest apologies  
DXB


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

SpankyInChicago said:


> In American English you do not ever put the period outside the quotation mark.


 "Do not ever" is too strong. There are exceptions (the case in point is not one of them).

But finishing the quote inside the period makes more sense, in all cases, and "American English" will eventually correct this bizarre affectation and become consistent with English as it's used in civilized nations.


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## Draven X. Byrne (Jun 2, 2003)

willardcpa said:


> Just goes to show you how much civil liberties in this county are being infringed upon. If its not OK to masturabate while you are IMing somebody then when is it OK??


WillardCPA - you are officially my hero today!


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## willardcpa (Feb 23, 2001)

Draven X. Byrne said:


> WillardCPA - you are officially my hero today!


Damn, coming from a self admitted anarchist, that probably means that homeland security will be knocking on my door with a one way ticket to GitMo for me. 
Oh, and please tell me you were typing with both hands when you sent that message.


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## Skankboy (Nov 20, 2002)

willardcpa said:


> Damn, coming from a self admitted anarchist, that probably means that homeland security will be knocking on my door with a one way ticket to GitMo for me.


At least you will be assured of proper representation...


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## bigviking (Sep 16, 2006)

Mikehdtv said:


> To bigviking:
> 
> Definition of a Conservative...
> 
> Pretend to be a supporter of childrens rights then IM teenage boys while masturbating. And when your leadership finds out they try to cover it up.


Alot of politicians (like Foley) are scum bags. But, if you read up a little you will find the real difference in this case is that he resigned. When the same thing happened to a congressional democrat in 1983 he didn't resign. In fact, he got three standing ovations from his party for not resigning. Actually, come to think of it, it wasn't the same thing. He actually did have sex with a 16 boy.

The real question here is how long have the democrats known about this ? It's hard to believe that they just found out about it one month before mid-term elections. If they really cared about our children they would have made an issue of this when they found out about it, not sit on it for polotical purposes.


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## Draven X. Byrne (Jun 2, 2003)

willardcpa said:


> Damn, coming from a self admitted anarchist, that probably means that homeland security will be knocking on my door with a one way ticket to GitMo for me.
> Oh, and please tell me you were typing with both hands when you sent that message.


Actually - since I flog alot, I mean alot, and not like once or twice but really quite a bit, I've learned to type with one of those sticks like parapalegics do. Frees up both hands. For you know, whatever. . . .


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## Skankboy (Nov 20, 2002)

bigviking said:


> Alot of politicians (like Foley) are scum bags. But, if you read up a little you will find the real difference in this case is that he resigned. When the same thing happened to a congressional democrat in 1983 he didn't resign. In fact, he got three standing ovations from his party for not resigning. Actually, come to think of it, it wasn't the same thing. He actually did have sex with a 16 boy.
> 
> The real question here is how long have the democrats known about this ? It's hard to believe that they just found out about it one month before mid-term elections. If they really cared about our children they would have made an issue of this when they found out about it, not sit on it for polotical purposes.


Ahh so the Democrats are doing this for polotical purposes... The picture is clear now.

Do you have a name of the person in the 1983 case or did you just hear about it from somewhere?


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

fjwagner said:


> 1) Put a period, dash, question mark, or exclamation point within closing quotation marks when the punctuation applies to the quotation itself and 2) outside when it applies to the whole sentence. My usage refers to the second part of the rule.


Your source is wrong. Wherever you are Googling that from is wrong.

The original source of your "rule" is Purdue University which states:

1. Put commas and periods within closing quotation marks, except when a parenthetical reference follows the quotation.

2. Put a dash, question mark, or exclamation point within closing quotation marks when the punctuation applies to the quotation itself and outside when it applies to the whole sentence.

http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_quote.html

Note that the source of your "rule" wrongly appended "period" to the start of rule #2 from Purdue.

I am not going to argue this point with you. You are wrong. Anybody that took English 101 in school and remembers the class knows this rule. Of course I took honors level English classes only, so what seems like the obvious to me may not be so obvious to others. Whether or not it is obvious to you is meaningless.

Now. Please don't bring up any Microsoft stuff or I might have to school you in that too.


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## bigviking (Sep 16, 2006)

Skankboy said:


> Ahh so the Democrats are doing this for polotical purposes... The picture is clear now.
> 
> Do you have a name of the person in the 1983 case or did you just hear about it from somewhere?


No, the responsibility belongs solely with Mr. Foley, but it is logical to believe that the democrats have known about this for quite some time, as the timing is just very suspect.

Although I certainly didn't here about it from Brian Williams or anyone else in the mainstream media, it still did happen and you may want to research it a little. The person I was referring to was Gerry Studds (D-MASS).

Don't get me wrong, Foley is of the worst kind, and I don't know anybody that is defending him.

I just find the selective moral outrage on the part of some democrats very interesting when you compare their reaction now to what their reaction was in the Studds case. This is the closest thing to the Foley case that I am aware of. The main difference is that Studds actually had sex with the male page.

Where was the outrage from the democrats in 1983 ?


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## bigviking (Sep 16, 2006)

More info on the Studds case here:

http://www.answers.com/topic/congressional-page-sex-scandal


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

bigviking said:


> A liberal:
> 
> 1) Always puts other countries first (in this case it's India)
> 
> ...


Oh. Sorry. I thought we were about to engage in some intelligent discussion and that you were actually going to list out the politcal tenets that you felt described a liberal political leaning.

Let me guess. You consider yourself a conservative. Yet I bet if pressed you couldn't possibly describe your conservatism in any sense of the word as originally definied by Goldwater in "Conscience of a Conservative."


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

henryld said:


> I do not think the term "wildly" applies. He expressed difficulty understanding the Indian CSR's and I have experienced the same. This is a very common problem, from all that I have read in various news sources, since the advent of outsourcing to offshore entities. He did not question the inteligence of the operatives, as you did.
> 
> Methinks Spanky needs a spanking.
> 
> BTW. I find your definition of a liberal thought provoking.


Then we can agree to disagree on how "wild" his assertion was or wasn't. Clearly I feel that both statements were wildly off the mark.

Sorry. Did I give a definition of a liberal? This thread is way off track.


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

Draven X. Byrne said:


> Any rebuttal that has to dig into grammar is just plain stupid in my opinion - shows a weak argument in my book.


Couldn't agree more. I do not believe I was the first to bring up grammar / spelling of a post in this thread. Of course, once a grammar / spelling rule is launched at me, I feel the need to respond in kind.

The #1 rule of pointing our grammar errors on the Internet is to make sure that your pointing out doesn't contain any grammar errors.


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## CessnaDriver (Oct 25, 2003)

henryld said:


> I do not think the term "wildly" applies. He expressed difficulty understanding the Indian CSR's and I have experienced the same. This is a very common problem, from all that I have read in various news sources, since the advent of outsourcing to offshore entities. He did not question the inteligence of the operatives, as you did.
> 
> Methinks Spanky needs a spanking.
> 
> BTW. I find your definition of a liberal thought provoking.


Ewe jest need too shut up cents ewe are a felloh ignrant Texan like mee.


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## Skankboy (Nov 20, 2002)

bigviking said:


> Where was the outrage from the democrats in 1983 ?


I dunno... I wasn't much into politics in 3rd grade. 23 years ago... That's some digging... Wasn't that during the coke years for Dubya?


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

bigviking said:


> Alot of politicians (like Foley) are scum bags. But, if you read up a little you will find the real difference in this case is that he resigned. When the same thing happened to a congressional democrat in 1983 he didn't resign. In fact, he got three standing ovations from his party for not resigning. Actually, come to think of it, it wasn't the same thing. He actually did have sex with a 16 boy.
> 
> The real question here is how long have the democrats known about this ? It's hard to believe that they just found out about it one month before mid-term elections. If they really cared about our children they would have made an issue of this when they found out about it, not sit on it for polotical purposes.


Wow. What an amazingly brilliant example of exactly what is so messed up with our political thought in this country. You complain about the politicalization of this event while at the same time further politicalize it by bringing up something from 1983. Don't you realize that both are bad?

This country has to get out of a "liberal vs. conservative" political mindset. It is destroying us.


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## dbish (Aug 30, 2004)

bigviking said:


> More info on the Studds case here:
> 
> http://www.answers.com/topic/congressional-page-sex-scandal


I was living in Mass during Studds "era". Amazing how your political affiliation determines the opinion on similar crimes. They just kept on electing him to office just like Ted Kennedy.


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

bigviking said:


> No, the responsibility belongs solely with Mr. Foley, but it is logical to believe that the democrats have known about this for quite some time, as the timing is just very suspect.
> 
> Although I certainly didn't here about it from Brian Williams or anyone else in the mainstream media, it still did happen and you may want to research it a little. The person I was referring to was Gerry Studds (D-MASS).
> 
> ...


The Democrats supported slavery in the 1800s.

I guess anyone who votes Democratic today support slavery.

Please Google non-sequitur.

BTW - any evidence that the Dems knew about this before last Friday?


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## bigviking (Sep 16, 2006)

SpankyInChicago said:


> The Democrats supported slavery in the 1800s.
> 
> I guess anyone who votes Democratic today support slavery.
> 
> ...


There is no logic in your statement at all, and it isn't even similar to any of the parallels that I have drawn from the acts of democrats.

Please explain yourself. I certainly didn't say that all democrats are pedophiles just because Studds was.


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## bigviking (Sep 16, 2006)

I believe the evidence that the democrats have know about this for quite some time will come out in the next week or so. This stunt will cost them a great deal in the mid-term elections, just watch it play out during the next few weeks.

Are we really to believe that they just now became aware of something that happened three years ago (a month before the elections). Come on, do you honestly believe this ??


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## CessnaDriver (Oct 25, 2003)

SpankyInChicago said:


> Couldn't agree more. I do not believe I was the first to bring up grammar / spelling of a post in this thread. Of course, once a grammar / spelling rule is launched at me, I feel the need to respond in kind.
> 
> The #1 rule of pointing our grammar errors on the Internet is to make sure that your pointing out doesn't contain any grammar errors.


Read message #23 in this thread. You started it.


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## Skankboy (Nov 20, 2002)

bigviking said:


> There is no logic in your statement at all, and it isn't even similar to any of the parallels that I have drawn from the acts of democrats.
> 
> Please explain yourself. I certainly didn't say that all democrats are pedophiles just because Studds was.


Do you know what the term pedophile means? A seventeen year old does not fall into that category.

I am in no way defending anyone's actions, but I think you should get your terminology straight.


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## bigviking (Sep 16, 2006)

Skankboy said:


> Do you know what the term pedophile means? A seventeen year old does not fall into that category.
> 
> I am in no way defending anyone's actions, but I think you should get your terminology straight.


I guess my definition is a little different. Technically, you are right, Studds having sex with a 17 year old male congressional page doesn't make him a pedophile, my mistake.

Anyway, my point remains the same, were was the moral outrage from democrats back then ? He continued to be re-elected until 1996 when he retired.


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## CessnaDriver (Oct 25, 2003)

Skankboy said:


> Do you know what the term pedophile means? A seventeen year old does not fall into that category.
> 
> I am in no way defending anyone's actions, but I think you should get your terminology straight.


I think a lot of people have a misunderstanding of the definition. Sex with a seventeen year old is illegal in some states, however, the offender is not a pedophile by definition.


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## Skankboy (Nov 20, 2002)

bigviking said:


> I guess my definition is a little different. Technically, you are right, Studds having sex with a 17 year old male congressional page doesn't make him a pedophile, my mistake.
> 
> Anyway, my point remains the same, were was the moral outrage from democrats back then ? He continued to be re-elected until 1996 when he retired.


For all I know there was moral outrage but the guy the Republicans ran against him was a bigger doofus.

The lead doofus got a second term, so anything can happen.


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## henryld (Aug 16, 2005)

CessnaDriver said:


> Ewe jest need too shut up cents ewe are a felloh ignrant Texan like mee.


LOL


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## bigviking (Sep 16, 2006)

Skankboy said:


> For all I know there was moral outrage but the guy the Republicans ran against him was a bigger doofus.
> 
> The lead doofus got a second term, so anything can happen.


Perhaps you are right, and there was some outrage among the democratic leaders, but there certainly wasn't much, as the democratic leadership didn't force him to resign as the republican leadership has done with Foley.

This will be my last post on this thread, as it has gone from off topic to way off topic to offensive to most, and I apologize for that, I just have to make my view points known once in a while, and I got a little worked up at some of the Texan bashing that was going on. No, I'm not a Texan but I wouldn't be ashamed of it if I were.

The end for me


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## Markman07 (Jul 18, 2001)

What in the hell is this thread all about! ? Wow! I thought I was on Newsvine or Digg for a second. Entertaining to say the least but nothing really associated to my HD tivo .


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

CessnaDriver said:


> Read message #23 in this thread. You started it.


Please see post #22.

Thanks for playing.


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

I did enjoy the thread. But I think it is time to drop out. I helped derail this board long enough.


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## Richard Chalk (May 13, 2004)

SpankyInChicago said:


> Funny, whenever I speak with someone in Texas I can't understand the accent. They all talk like uneducated hicks. I'd much rather speak with someone in India who at least has a grasp of the fundemental rules of the English language.


For my part, I'd rather speak with someone who at least has a grasp of the fundamental (correct spelling) rules of direcTV, Tivo, customer service, and honesty. I really don't care what accent he has (and I am a former Canadian living in South Carolina, where I'm the one who talks funny!!!)


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

SpankyInChicago said:


> Funny, whenever I speak with someone in Texas I can't understand the accent. They all talk like uneducated hicks. I'd much rather speak with someone in India who at least has a grasp of the fundemental rules of the English language.


Gee, and I know ignorant idiots from Chicago.

Imagine that.


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## willardcpa (Feb 23, 2001)

SpankyInChicago said:


> ....I am not going to argue this point with you. You are wrong. Anybody that took English 101 in school and remembers the class knows this rule. Of course I took honors level English classes only, so what seems like the obvious to me may not be so obvious to others. Whether or not it is obvious to you is meaningless.....


Sentences one and two would offend most anybody, you are basically giving yourself the "last word" on the subject. If indeed you were not going to argue this point with him, why did you make that post.
Sentence three is incorrect. I, for one, took English 101 in school (although it was called English Composition when I took it 39 years ago), I remember the class, but I didn't "know the rule."  I did look it up however, as I thought you were wrong. As an earlier poster pointed out, I too found that there is dissention amongst the ranks on the rule. Since, as in the way it is used in the post that started this discourse, it isn't logical. And found that it became common usage because of problems typesetters had with hanging periods being omitted from senteces (pretty lame excuse in my opinion [which I will admit is meaningless]). And, as I said earlier, it apparently is "American English" and the English themselves do it the other way. 
Sentence four is an shameless attempt at self aggrandizement.
Sentence five is an offhanded insult.

Pardon me for venting, but effete intellectual "english grammar nazis" really tick me off. Must be some kind of bigotry I have deep within me.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

SpankyInChicago said:


> Your source is wrong. Wherever you are Googling that from is wrong.
> 
> The original source of your "rule" is Purdue University which states:
> 
> ...


I've taken English 101, and I've followed it up with advanced degrees in English, Linguistics, and Writing.

What more advanced courses will teach you is that high-school level teachers often wildly overstate the 'rules' of English, along with when they can and cannot be broken. Most of the 'rules' that your high school teacher taught you are much more fluid than he or she probably led you to believe, and should be more accurately referred to as 'guidelines.' Most grammar guidelines (such as the punctuation one at issue here) can be broken if the rhetorical situation calls for it and if it makes your communication clearer.

There are quite a few style guides that say putting punctuation outside of quotes is acceptable in certain situations.


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## Skankboy (Nov 20, 2002)

Langree said:


> Gee, and I know ignorant idiots from Chicago.
> 
> Imagine that.


Wow! Well played.... ::golf clap:: Ouch! That's going to sting come winter.... At least for the idiots in the north.


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## CessnaDriver (Oct 25, 2003)

SpankyInChicago said:


> Please see post #22.
> 
> Thanks for playing.


#22 was about a SPELLING mistake, not grammer.

Actually, if you want to get technical, see #9. You lose again.


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## Skankboy (Nov 20, 2002)

CessnaDriver said:


> #22 was about a SPELLING mistake, not grammer.
> 
> Actually, if you want to get technical, see #9. You loose again.


You "loose" again? hahahaha.


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## CessnaDriver (Oct 25, 2003)

Skankboy said:


> You "loose" again? hahahaha.


Is that a question or an answer? LOL

I posted that before I had my coffee!


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