# 20.4.5 Release Notes



## TiVoMargret

Sorry for the delay in sending out release notes. I had to finalize my Halloween costume first. Or wait for the Giants to win the World Series. Or wait for a press release to go out. It was one of those three things.

Here are some of the changes:
- There are improvements to streaming over poor connections. It is recommended that iOS users update to the 3.4 version of the TiVo App that was released earlier this week.
- Fixed some cases where audio was dropped going between full-screen video and menus.
- Fixed an issue related to launching a Web Video Hotlist show found through search.
- Fixed an issue related to occasional lack-of-audio in live TV or recordings.
- Fixed an issue where pressing the LIVE TV button while Netflix was buffering could cause a reboot.
- Fixed an issue where some WishLists werent recording on Premium Channels.
- Fixed the slow down of My Shows for those running SD Menus (Premiere only). This is the same fix that was in 20.4.4b.

Oh, and:
VUDU - stream TV shows and movies in beautiful 1080p, with access to your Ultraviolet library! (Roamio and Mini only)

And, since youve asked so nicely (for so long):
A shiny new Amazon Instant Video App with access to the Prime Instant Video, also in beautiful 1080p! (Roamio and Mini only)

At this time, I expect both VUDU and the new Amazon Instant Video app to be available on TiVo Premiere in the first half of 2015.

For those that signed up at http://tivo.com/priority, and your box has already updated to 20.4.5, I expect the apps to be available this evening.

If you were on the priority list before 9am PT this morning, were doing another sweep to authorize boxes for the update. Make a connection after 10:30am PT, and if you can download and install the update before 2pm PT, you should also get the apps today.

If you missed todays sweep, you should see the apps within 48 hours after your box eventually updates to 20.4.5.

For those not on the priority list, I currently expect the full rollout to happen mid/late November.

Margret


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## Diana Collins

Thanks Margaret!! (Hooray for the Giants!!!)


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## muzzymate

Thank you Margret, as always. Looking forward to the new apps.


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## Aero 1

interesting, Tivo is one of the very few Amazon streaming clients to do 1080p. nice.


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## El Maestro

This update sounds like a real blockbuster! Thanks a lot. Any idea when the iOS app will be iOS 8 optimized (or at least adjusted for the display on the iPhone 6/Plus)?


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## Jackamus

Finally.... Amazon.com prime and vudu


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## mikeyts

Suh-weet! I cain't hardly wait! I just got a new television which will properly display 24p with even cadence and my other 24p capable devices with VUDU and/or Amazon are WD TV Live Streaming and Panasonic DMP-BDT220, both kind of bothersome to use (only the BDT220 has an Amazon app and it's not 1080p capable; using it, you have to turn 24p on every time you start a streaming app ).


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## kbmb

Hot diggity dog! Thanks Margret.

Just to let you know, I don't think this fix worked:
- Fixed some cases where audio was dropped going between full-screen video and menus.

Still getting the audio blip (although it might be less) going between TV Tivo Central.

-Kevin


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## jrtroo

kbmb said:


> I don't think this fix worked:
> - Fixed some cases where audio was dropped going between full-screen video and menus.


"some" is not the same as "all". All would be nice, but it is really great to see its on the bug list and getting active attention.


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## consumedsoul

El Maestro said:


> This update sounds like a real blockbuster! Thanks a lot. Any idea when the iOS app will be iOS 8 optimized (or at least adjusted for the display on the iPhone 6/Plus)?


+1!


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## dbwilbur

This update is going to be amazing!


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## Bytez

Earlier than expected. Thanks so much.

Nothing about the higher quality streaming?


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## davezatz

Amen for Amazon! In 2014 I watch more Amazon Instant than linear TV or Netflix.


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## keenanSR

Hi Margret, any word on if either or both Amazon and Vudu will have a downloadable feature as Amazon did with the previous app and Vudu does with other devices or will it be strictly streaming only?

Thanks!


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## tarheelblue32

_*and the people rejoice*_


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## Joe Siegler

keenanSR said:


> Hi Margret, any word on if either or both Amazon and Vudu will have a downloadable feature as Amazon did with the previous app and Vudu does with other devices or will it be strictly streaming only?
> 
> Thanks!


Or if they'll be tied into the universal search like other providers like Hulu & Netflix?


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## innocentfreak

keenanSR said:


> Hi Margret, any word on if either or both Amazon and Vudu will have a downloadable feature as Amazon did with the previous app and Vudu does with other devices or will it be strictly streaming only?
> 
> Thanks!


I am wondering this also. As someone who vastly prefers downloading over streaming I was hoping I could download my UV library for playback. Or at least if the apps could use the local harddrive to buffer and cache the content allowing for seamless trickplay like when using MRS.


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## mikeyts

keenanSR said:


> Hi Margret, any word on if either or both Amazon and Vudu will have a downloadable feature as Amazon did with the previous app and Vudu does with other devices or will it be strictly streaming only?


The support article for Amazon says "Stream only" for "Amazon Instant Video with Prime" on Roamio. The support article for VUDU does not mention downloading; I'm doubting it. Do you know of any devices other than PS3 and LG BDP590 to which VUDU will download? (I don't have a PS4 but that seems likely since the PS3 app still has it). VUDU apps on nothing else that I own with a HDD has that feature (Xbox One, Xbox 360).


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## keenanSR

mikeyts said:


> The support article for Amazon says "Stream only" for "Amazon Instant Video with Prime" on Roamio. The support article for VUDU does not mention downloading; I'm doubting it.


Yes, I'm doubting it as well but figured it couldn't hurt to ask. I really like the DL option, it's really convenient to have those DL'ed shows in my NPL to select when ever I want over having to open the app to stream them, not to mention the possible/likely quality/navigation improvements of being downloaded. Some of the DL'ed Amazon 1080/24p content has looked excellent and I hope we don't lose that quality.

I have a PS3 and it's the only Vudu device I have that has the DL option, or did the last time I had it hooked up.


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## abovethesink

So say I am late to the party and add myself to the priority list now. Is it too late for that to matter?


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## bradleys

No, you can get on the list - it probably wont happen tonight, but you will get it sooner than later.


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## Joe Siegler

I asked Margret on Twitter if the new Amazon Prime Streaming & Vudu apps integrate with the Universal TiVo search, and her response was a simple:



> Absolutely




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/527890578302697472
w00t! If they were on there without integration it would have been seriously less cool!


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## FitzAusTex

Under the Vudu portion of her post, Margret says only "Oh, and:
VUDU - stream TV shows and movies in beautiful 1080p, with access to your Ultraviolet library! (Roamio and Mini only)". With the care and wit she took to create the post, my guess is that she'd have said "or download".


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## muzzymate

Since I'm at work, was a little bummed that I may miss the 2pm PT deadline to receive the new apps tonight but just remembered that KTTMG can be used to force a network connection and reboot. Update is installing now. Hooray!


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## kokishin

FitzAusTex said:


> Under the Vudu portion of her post, Margret says only "Oh, and:
> VUDU - stream TV shows and movies in beautiful 1080p, with access to your Ultraviolet library! (Roamio and Mini only)". With the care and wit she took to create the post, my guess is that she'd have said "or download".


Also, http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2951/kw/20.4.5 states: _The VUDU app for TiVo gives you streaming access to VUDU's library of movies and TV shows for rental or purchase._


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## Joe Siegler

muzzymate said:


> Since I'm at work, was a little bummed that I may miss the 2pm PT deadline to receive the new apps tonight but just remembered that KTTMG can be used to force a network connection and reboot. Update is installing now. Hooray!


I use that too, and I am home. Why walk across the house when you can do it from the computer you're already sitting at!


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## NYHeel

Joe Siegler said:


> I asked Margret on Twitter if the new Amazon Prime Streaming & Vudu apps integrate with the Universal TiVo search, and her response was a simple:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/527890578302697472
> w00t! If they were on there without integration it would have been seriously less cool!


I just hope there's someway to separate out the items from Amazon that are Prime eligible vs. available for purchase/rent. Nearly everything out there shows the Amazon icon currently since nearly everything is available for purchase/rent from Amazon. I'm not interested in buying from Amazon. I'm hoping for a way to just show the amazon Prime items only in the universal search. Or at least show a separate logo for those items that eligible to be streamed for free with Prime.


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## lpwcomp

kbmb said:


> Hot diggity dog! Thanks Margret.
> 
> Just to let you know, I don't think this fix worked:
> - Fixed some cases where audio was dropped going between full-screen video and menus.
> 
> Still getting the audio blip (although it might be less) going between TV Tivo Central.
> 
> -Kevin





jrtroo said:


> "some" is not the same as "all". All would be nice, but it is really great to see its on the bug list and getting active attention.


Plus momentary blip is not necessarily the same as "dropped".


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## Joe Siegler

NYHeel said:


> I just hope there's someway to separate out the items from Amazon that are Prime eligible vs. available for purchase/rent. Nearly everything out there shows the Amazon icon currently since nearly everything is available for purchase/rent from Amazon. I'm not interested in buying from Amazon. I'm hoping for a way to just show the amazon Prime items only in the universal search. Or at least show a separate logo for those items that eligible to be streamed for free with Prime.


Well, you can always deselect the one that isn't Prime, assuming they're separate apps. We'll find out tonight.


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## davezatz

Joe Siegler said:


> Well, you can always deselect the one that isn't Prime, assuming they're separate apps. We'll find out tonight.


It's a single app. Prime has its own section.


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## Zu Nim

TiVoMargret said:


> If you were on the priority list before 9am PT this morning, were doing another sweep to authorize boxes for the update. Make a connection after 10:30am PT, and if you can download and install the update before 2pm PT, you should also get the apps today.


The sweep must have overlooked me. I read the news this morning, put my boxes on the priority list before 9am PT and I just tried connecting two of them (about 12:45pm PT) but neither got the update. Oh well.


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## kbmb

lpwcomp said:


> Plus momentary blip is not necessarily the same as "dropped".


Mine is an audio dropout.....as I see the signal drop completely from my receiver.

-Kevin


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## ThAbtO

I was on the PL prior to today's release date and just forced a connection

Its been 6 minutes and still downloading.... (My, its a big one! ) wait for it....... (Oh, I can't wait!)


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## lgnad

dang, My Roamio and Premiere got it, but the Mini didnt! 
It was put in for priority at the same time <sigh>


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## Sixto

Thanks Margret. Great support.

Added my 7 boxes the minute the priority page went up and all set on 20.4.5 for the new apps tonight.


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## lpwcomp

kbmb said:


> Mine is an audio dropout.....as I see the signal drop completely from my receiver.
> 
> -Kevin


Your prior post said it was a "blip" and my point was that there is a difference between a "blip" and a complete drop which doesn't come back on its own.


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## kbmb

lpwcomp said:


> Your prior post said it was a "blip" and my point was that there is a difference between a "blip" and a complete drop which doesn't come back on its own.


Ok, if you are saying a drop means it doesn't come back on it's own....then that's not what I have.

Mine seems to be like others.....while watching live tv, when you press the Tivo button, the audio stops (almost like when you change the channel) and then less than a second later it comes back.

I can see the audio input on my receiver and the lights go out and back on as the audio cuts out and back in.

-Kevin


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## Mike in MD

kbmb said:


> Hot diggity dog! Thanks Margret.
> 
> Just to let you know, I don't think this fix worked:
> - Fixed some cases where audio was dropped going between full-screen video and menus.
> 
> Still getting the audio blip (although it might be less) going between TV Tivo Central.
> 
> -Kevin


She said fixed "some" cases. I was hoping switching between TV Central and Live TV would be fixed as well. Hopefully the next update will fix it.


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## rgr

NYHeel said:


> I just hope there's someway to separate out the items from Amazon that are Prime eligible vs. available for purchase/rent. Nearly everything out there shows the Amazon icon currently since nearly everything is available for purchase/rent from Amazon. I'm not interested in buying from Amazon. I'm hoping for a way to just show the amazon Prime items only in the universal search. Or at least show a separate logo for those items that eligible to be streamed for free with Prime.


I set my Search Options to "Free only" to weed out paid content. Hope this works for Prime.


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## Sixto

Yeah, I've been hoping since the new Roamio setup that the sound cutout when entering TiVo Central would be fixed, to operate just like when the Guide is displayed where it's seamless.

The other cutout / freeze that I see is when watching a channel and a recording starts on that same channel. Have recently noticed it more, the screen flickers and sometimes freezes for a second and sometimes skips a few seconds.


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## LoadStar

Thanks, Margret, for all you do here (and twitter, and everywhere else)!


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## MichaelAinNB

Thanks for nothing.

Not so respectfully,

A 13-year loyal TiVo customer and TiVo Premier owner.


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## bradleys

MichaelAinNB said:


> Thanks for nothing.
> 
> Not so respectfully,
> 
> A 13-year loyal TiVo customer and TiVo Premier owner.


And what are you upset about not getting pray tell...


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## Johnwashere

MichaelAinNB said:


> Thanks for nothing.
> 
> Not so respectfully,
> 
> A 13-year loyal TiVo customer and TiVo Premier owner.


What are you *****ing about? Im a 13 year old loyal customer and I am very pleased tivo is still even supporting the premier! The premier is still getting amazon prime and vudu (!!!) but it will be next year.


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## mrizzo80

MichaelAinNB said:


> Thanks for nothing.
> 
> Not so respectfully,
> 
> A 13-year loyal TiVo customer and TiVo Premier owner.


A bit harsh, no? Premiere was released 4.5 years ago (Spring 2010). It received a big performance increase earlier this year, a modern Netflix app as well (I think), and is on track to get the new Amazon Prime and VUDU clients in 2015. In my opinion, TiVo is being very kind to Premiere owners.


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## BlackBetty

Amazon instant now shows up for me. No forced connection needed.


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## MichaelAinNB

bradleys said:


> And what are you upset about not getting pray tell...


Being mislead all this time to believe the winter "Update" would include access to Amazon Prime and Vudu for Premier boxes, not just Roamio. Turns out, this "Update" has little if any effect on the Premiers. And now we're told it could be another 8 months or so before Premier boxes have access to Prime and Vudu. If they're truly going to update the Premier, why not do it now? Perhaps this is TiVo's way of trying to, let's sugarcoat it and use the word "encourage" Preimer owners to upgrade to Roamio? Shoddy way to do business.


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## NJ Webel

bradleys said:


> And what are you upset about not getting pray tell...


Seems that some choose to focus on the cloud rather than the silver lining.


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## MichaelAinNB

mrizzo80 said:


> A bit harsh, no? Premiere was released 4.5 years ago (Spring 2010). It received a big performance increase earlier this year, a modern Netflix app as well (I think), and is on track to get the new Amazon Prime and VUDU clients in 2015. In my opinion, TiVo is being very kind to Premiere owners.


Harsh? I don't think so. TiVo duped its Premier owners into believing the update allowing access to Prime would include us. 
TiVo is "very kind to Premier owners"? That's like saying TiVo is being very kind to its customers. It's their responsibility to be "kind" to Premier owners. And S3 owners and Roamio owners. We're all paying customers and without us, where would they be?


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## overFEDEXed

BlackBetty said:


> Amazon instant now shows up for me. No forced connection needed.


Yes they have flipped the switch!!!

I have two separate Amazon apps for now anyway.


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## MichaelAinNB

NJ Webel said:


> I wouldn't invest too much time, bradleys. Just as in life, some here choose to focus on the cloud rather than the silver lining.


OK, I'll bite. What is the silver lining in the cloud for Premier owners in this latest update?


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## aaronwt

MichaelAinNB said:


> Being mislead all this time to believe the winter "Update" would include access to Amazon Prime and Vudu for Premier boxes, not just Roamio. Turns out, this "Update" has little if any effect on the Premiers. And now we're told it could be another 8 months or so before Premier boxes have access to Prime and Vudu. If they're truly going to update the Premier, why not do it now? Perhaps this is TiVo's way of trying to, let's sugarcoat it and use the word "encourage" Preimer owners to upgrade to Roamio? Shoddy way to do business.


We haven't even received the Winter update yet have we? It won't be Winter until seven weeks from now


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## aaronwt

BlackBetty said:


> Amazon instant now shows up for me. No forced connection needed.


Does the app need to be selected from the Host TiVo first? I just checked a mini using Slingplayer, while still at work, and i don't see Amazon listed.


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## andyf

overFEDEXed said:


> Yes they have flipped the switch!!!
> 
> I have two separate Amazon apps for now anyway.


I only have one. The new one replaced the old one.


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## aaronwt

OK. I did have to force a connection on my Slingbox Mini. Once I did then Amazon and Vudu showed up.

Does Vudu still have a paltry limit of players that can be enabled to access Vudu? In the past I always had to play musical Vudu devices. It was always a pain years ago. It would have been nice to be able to enable as many devices as you want to access Vudu. But I always had to remove and add devices depending on the one I wanted to use. But I also don't use Vudu as much as I did five or six years ago.


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## lpwcomp

MichaelAinNB said:


> Being mislead all this time to believe the winter "Update" would include access to Amazon Prime and Vudu for Premier boxes, not just Roamio. Turns out, this "Update" has little if any effect on the Premiers. And now we're told it could be another 8 months or so before Premier boxes have access to Prime and Vudu. If they're truly going to update the Premier, why not do it now? Perhaps this is TiVo's way of trying to, let's sugarcoat it and use the word "encourage" Preimer owners to upgrade to Roamio? Shoddy way to do business.


Cite please.


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## Dan203

TiVo NEVER promised these apps to Premiere owners. They never even promised them to Roamio owners. Everything until this thread has been speculation, rumor and hearsay. Any promises you feel were made were not.


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## BigJimOutlaw

MichaelAinNB said:


> Harsh? I don't think so. TiVo duped its Premier owners into believing the update allowing access to Prime would include us.


The existence of the apps weren't even acknowledged until yesterday. Assumptions and rumors came from the community and/or bloggers who clearly knew no more than you do now.

Besides, this Amazon app is a bit sluggish even on the Roamio hardware. Your experience is potentially going to be crap.


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## Sixto

Just one new Amazon app here.


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## KimHedrick

Got the update a couple of days ago, still have the old Amazon app.


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## Sixto

Interesting. While I only see one App in the Find TV list, there's two in the settings for video providers, with both checked, but only the new one shows up.


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## TiVoMargret

Sixto said:


> Interesting. While I only see one App in the Find TV list, there's two in the settings for video providers, with both checked, but only the new one shows up.


This lets you "uncheck" the Amazon Prime catalog if you don't subscribe but still want to see the rent/buy portion of their catalog. (Or the other way around, if you only want to see the Prime Instant Video items.)

--Margret


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## overFEDEXed

andyf said:


> I only have one. The new one replaced the old one.


Two under "Video Providers" I mean. For reasons explained above by TivoMargret.


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## NYHeel

I had an error while watching an owned movie on Vudu. I logged into Vudu on my Mini and was able to play one of my movies. After about 2 minutes it gave me an error on the screen that Ultraviolet account needed. Unable to start playback. Please try again later or contact Vudu customer care for help. 

This is with the video still playing behind the message. When I hit ok it ends the video. When I tried again it gives me the same error again after 2 minutes. 

Of course my Vudu account is linked with my ultraviolet account so I don't know what to do.

Edit: it turns out my ultraviolet account had somehow gotten de linked. So hopefully it will work now.


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## bradleys

I would reboot the tivo and try again.


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## kokishin

I started a new thread: New Amazon Instant Video and Vudu Now Available on Roamio and Mini 

Not sure if cross posting is a no-no but WTH.

After forcing a network update, the new Amazon Instant Video and Vudu app showed up under Find TV, Movies, & Videos. I successfully signed into my Amazon Prime account on both my Roamio Pro and my Mini and was able to simultaneously stream Amazon videos from both boxes. Very nice!

I do not have a Vudu account (yet) so I did not try it.


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## styre

Vudu locking up on Roamio Pro. Happened twice now, when I am in the vudu menu under my vudu I press the TiVo remote button completely locks the TiVo cannot do anything. Had to pull the plug to reboot.


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## NYHeel

TiVoMargret said:


> This lets you "uncheck" the Amazon Prime catalog if you don't subscribe but still want to see the rent/buy portion of their catalog. (Or the other way around, if you only want to see the Prime Instant Video items.)
> 
> --Margret


Perfect. That's exactly what I was hoping for. I already know that Amazon has nearly everything available for rent or purchase. Now I can exclude that stuff and only show the prime stuff. Nice.


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## Dan203

styre said:


> Vudu locking up on Roamio Pro. Happened twice now, when I am in the vudu menu under my vudu I press the TiVo remote button completely locks the TiVo cannot do anything. Had to pull the plug to reboot.


Went in and out of the Vudu app twice on mine and didn't have this issue.


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## kbmb

styre said:


> Vudu locking up on Roamio Pro. Happened twice now, when I am in the vudu menu under my vudu I press the TiVo remote button completely locks the TiVo cannot do anything. Had to pull the plug to reboot.


This is the type of thing I wish Tivo could change. First and foremost I need my Tivo to be a DVR. I love that they add these 3rd party apps, but I'm always nervous about using them for this issue. Early on had issues with Netflix locking up the box.

Wish they could code it so the app itself crashes, but doesn't take the whole box down.

-Kevin


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## FitzAusTex

The new amazon app is virtually identical to the Google TV Amazon app. Compared to the roku version, the tivo version has good and less good points. I'm satisfied so far. The Google TV version does seem to ramp up to best quality a bit quicker, and has a 10 second skip back that the tivo version doesn't seem to have.

Just pointing out the GTV version since that version has been around for about two years.


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## styre

kbmb said:


> This is the type of thing I wish Tivo could change. First and foremost I need my Tivo to be a DVR. I love that they add these 3rd party apps, but I'm always nervous about using them for this issue. Early on had issues with Netflix locking up the box.
> 
> Wish they could code it so the app itself crashes, but doesn't take the whole box down.
> 
> -Kevin


Well it seems it got it out of its system, it is not locking up any longer.


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## mrizzo80

styre said:


> Vudu locking up on Roamio Pro. Happened twice now, when I am in the vudu menu under my vudu I press the TiVo remote button completely locks the TiVo cannot do anything. Had to pull the plug to reboot.


I had a lockup once as well doing the same thing. I entered the VUDU app via searching for a specific movie. Browsed around a bit, then hit the TiVo button and it froze; had to pull the plug. I may try the Clear button if this happens again since that dumps you out of the app as well.

After the reboot, I went into it via the VUDU button, browsed around, and was able to exit via the TiVo button.


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## kbmb

styre said:


> Well it seems it got it out of its system, it is not locking up any longer.


And sure enough.....mine just locked up as well.

Wonder if we aren't supposed to hit the Tivo button to get back?!?

-Kevin


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## kbmb

mrizzo80 said:


> I had a lockup once as well doing the same thing. I entered the VUDU app via searching for a specific movie. Browsed around a bit, then hit the TiVo button and it froze; had to pull the plug. I may try the Clear button if this happens again since that dumps you out of the app as well.
> 
> After the reboot, I went into it via the VUDU button, browsed around, and was able to exit via the TiVo button.


Clear doesn't work. Had to pull the plug.

If you don't mind, I started a dedicated thread on it to track here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10295767

-Kevin


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## tarheelblue32

kbmb said:


> And sure enough.....mine just locked up as well.


Well, I guess that's something for them to fix in the spring update.


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## mikeyts

Amazon's a little sluggish, VUDU works nicely but the controls of neither are at all intuitive. I've used these UIs on several other devices and never been stumped at how to back out of a page before. I'm going to have to study the support articles.


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## tarheelblue32

mikeyts said:


> I've used these UIs on several other devices and never been stumped at how to back out of a page before. I'm going to have to study the support articles.


Have you tried the "Back" button?


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## CoxInPHX

innocentfreak said:


> I am wondering this also. As someone who vastly prefers downloading over streaming I was hoping I could download my UV library for playback. Or at least if the apps could use the local harddrive to buffer and cache the content allowing for seamless trickplay like when using MRS.


Downloads are still working with the new Amazon Prime App, at least for now, When pushed from the Amazon site.

But my Amazon Devices list is a mess now.
Highlighted Devices without the TiVo Name must be the new App on the RoamioPro and the Mini.


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## NJ Webel

MichaelAinNB said:


> OK, I'll bite. What is the silver lining in the cloud for Premier owners in this latest update?


How about the confirmation directly from Tivo (and not just board speculation) that the Premiere will be receiving these apps?

How about, that instead of EOL'ing the updates for a box whose tech is pushing 5 years old, that they have decided to push it out anyway. And as to the delay for the Premiere, just maybe they need a little time to make sure that the older box can support the apps reliably?


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## tarheelblue32

CoxInPHX said:


> Downloads are still working with the new Amazon Prime App, at least for now, When pushed from the Amazon site.
> 
> But my Amazon Devices list is a mess now.
> Highlighted Devices without the TiVo Name must be the new App on the RoamioPro and the Mini.


You can deregister those two highlighted ones with "%FIRST_NAME%'s %DUPE_STRATEGY_1ST%TiVo". I did and the app still works perfectly fine.


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## keenanSR

CoxInPHX said:


> Downloads are still working with the new Amazon Prime App, at least for now, When pushed from the Amazon site.
> 
> But my Amazon Devices list is a mess now.
> Highlighted Devices without the TiVo Name must be the new App on the RoamioPro and the Mini.


That's excellent news!


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## bradleys

Yep, still works as a push from Amazon - but the old tivo app is gone.












tarheelblue32 said:


> You can deregister those two highlighted ones with "%FIRST_NAME%'s %DUPE_STgvRATEGY_1ST%TiVo". I did and the app still works perfectly fine.


Those that you highlighted are the Amazon Prime Registrations. If you want to use both the download and stream, you will have two registrations per box.


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## Mike in MD

I watched a Vudu movie. It played great! Now I do not need to load Vudu from the smart tv app. Sweet! Thanks for this new feature since I use Vudu often. I can stay in Tivo now and do everything I want to do. I will try out the 30 day free access to Amazon prime and see if I want that; I am on the fence with Amazon prime because I already have Netflix.


----------



## DEC2955

TiVoMargret said:


> Sorry for the delay in sending out release notes.
> .....
> and:
> VUDU - stream TV shows and movies in beautiful 1080p, with access to your Ultraviolet library! (Roamio and Mini only)
> ...
> Margret


Thanks!!!
(Once the Premier's get Vudu I will be able to remove the streaming boxes!)


----------



## Goldwing2001

TiVoMargret said:


> This lets you "uncheck" the Amazon Prime catalog if you don't subscribe but still want to see the rent/buy portion of their catalog. (Or the other way around, if you only want to see the Prime Instant Video items.)
> 
> --Margret


Great Job!


----------



## Jackamus

I still do not have the apps. Updated and service calls three times. Sad.


----------



## morac

I added my boxes to the priority list a few days ago. Didn't get anything today.


----------



## CoxInPHX

TiVoMargret said:


> This lets you "uncheck" the Amazon Prime catalog if you don't subscribe but still want to see the rent/buy portion of their catalog. (Or the other way around, if you only want to see the Prime Instant Video items.)
> 
> --Margret


This option/feature is great, as it eliminates the Amazon Paid Only items from showing up in a search.

Thank You


----------



## zirkenz

Margret, i am realy upset today. Why you ask? Well i have a Samsung galaxy tab 8.9 tablet running ice cream sandwich and i had tivo tablet installed on it. It auto updated and replaced it with a renamed app- Tivo Tablet (obsolete). When i tap to open i am met with a notification that says there is a new version would you like to download it now. when i click on yes it takes me to the play store and it tells me that the new version is not compatible with my tablet! It will not let me use the older version at all. So prior to update all was good and i could use it just fine for what i need it for, today i can't. I need to be able to use the older version! How can i revert back? Can i get the apk file? if not can you fix it so that it lets me continue to use the old app without forcing me to the play store?

I get that you don't want to pour resources into supporting it on older android os versions but at least let me continue using it. it worked fine before the update.


----------



## shoek

I have the update on my 2 Roamio Pros and 5 Minis. Amazon Instant is working fine.

1 issue I see is that I now have 2 Spotify icons. They both work, but one seems older gen and the other newer. Can we remove the older one?

Also, can the TiVo Mini be configured for what Video Providers it shows? I know the Roamio can, but couldnt find it for Mini. I don't want VUDU or AOL in the list.

Thanks!
-Steve


----------



## generaltso

CoxInPHX said:


> This option/feature is great, as it eliminates the Amazon Paid Only items from showing up in a search.


I don't suppose there's a way to also eliminate Paid Only items from showing up once you're in the app?


----------



## trip1eX

Still get same audio (and video) drop out when switching to Tivo Central from full screen video and vice versa.


----------



## Bytez

trip1eX said:


> Still get same audio (and video) drop out when switching to Tivo Central from full screen video and vice versa.


Same here.


----------



## AdamNJ

got the new apps overnight. amazon is working nicely. i've never used vudu; haven't checked it yet.

Hbo go is next request!


----------



## jrtroo

zirkenz said:


> Margret, i am realy upset today. Why you ask? Well i have a Samsung galaxy tab 8.9 tablet running ice cream sandwich and i had tivo tablet installed on it. It auto updated and replaced it with a renamed app- Tivo Tablet (obsolete).


While I have this same issue with my Xoom, it has NOTHING to do with this update.


----------



## duncan7

TiVoMargret said:


> - Fixed an issue related to occasional lack-of-audio in live TV or recordings.


Are there any details on this issue? I have frequent brief audio dropouts on several channels that I was about to call Charter about but I'm wondering if this bug could be the culprit. (I try to have all my TiVo troubleshooting done before I pick up the phone, since that's the first finger Charter points.)


----------



## Mike in MD

I am still experiencing the iPad tivo app, latest version downloaded yesterday, having problems streaming with tivo 20.4.5. It is not as bad, but it has happened to me 3 times on in home networking about 20 feet away from the Roamio. I have iOS 8.1 with 105 down and 12 up with Comcast.


----------



## Diana Collins

aaronwt said:


> OK. I did have to force a connection on my Slingbox Mini. Once I did then Amazon and Vudu showed up.
> 
> Does Vudu still have a paltry limit of players that can be enabled to access Vudu? In the past I always had to play musical Vudu devices. It was always a pain years ago. It would have been nice to be able to enable as many devices as you want to access Vudu. But I always had to remove and add devices depending on the one I wanted to use. But I also don't use Vudu as much as I did five or six years ago.


Vudu does still have a limit of 5 simultaneous players enabled. I hit the limit when I went to add a Mini.


----------



## dswallow

Diana Collins said:


> Vudu does still have a limit of 5 simultaneous players enabled. I hit the limit when I went to add a Mini.


But you can share the UltraViolet account content with other VuDu accounts, so you should be able to work around a 5-device VuDu account limit at least for UltraViolet content sharing purposes.


----------



## jedware

Diana Collins said:


> Vudu does still have a limit of 5 simultaneous players enabled. I hit the limit when I went to add a Mini.


The limit is eight. The error message states 5 but that message is incorrect and it was recently increased. If you log on to VUDU you can see all eight devices you have linked.


----------



## Diana Collins

dswallow said:


> But you can share the UltraViolet account content with other VuDu accounts, so you should be able to work around a 5-device VuDu account limit at least for UltraViolet content sharing purposes.


True...but it means having a different email address on each account, and then keeping them all straight. I actually use Vudu as a simple PPV service mostly (usually rent) so for me it is just a matter of keeping a record of email accounts and passwords so that I can update the account when the credit card expires.


----------



## aaronwt

Diana Collins said:


> Vudu does still have a limit of 5 simultaneous players enabled. I hit the limit when I went to add a Mini.


I had seven Vudu players going last night concurrently(four from TiVos). They all played the same movie(the Karate Kid 2010) with three bar HDX from start to finish. It used over 60GB of data.


----------



## aaronwt

dswallow said:


> But you can share the UltraViolet account content with other VuDu accounts, so you should be able to work around a 5-device VuDu account limit at least for UltraViolet content sharing purposes.


The Vudu device limit is eight now. For some reason the Tivo message says five. But I had to deactivate four of my devices to add my Two Romaios and two of my Minis. I have eight devices total activated on my Vudu account. Which is much better than a few years ago when the limit was five. But eight devices is still nowhere near enough for me. I still have a bunch of other devices that I can't activate with Vudu. I have to play musical Vudu devices.


----------



## Africanlivedit

innocentfreak said:


> I am wondering this also. As someone who vastly prefers downloading over streaming I was hoping I could download my UV library for playback. Or at least if the apps could use the local harddrive to buffer and cache the content allowing for seamless trickplay like when using MRS.


You can on Vudu through the download feature. Also, if you want to watch a movie from your UV library, download the Flixster app. Works like a charm!


----------



## Yuterald

Dang it - I forgot about the priority list since we got 2 new Roamios! I just signed up both boxes so now I'm wondering if forcing a connection will get us the update or are we at the mercy of just 'waiting'?


----------



## Dan203

AdamNJ said:


> got the new apps overnight. amazon is working nicely. i've never used vudu; haven't checked it yet.
> 
> Hbo go is next request!


If they add HBOGo I'll be set. No need for any other device to watch streaming video.


----------



## tarheelblue32

Dan203 said:


> If they add HBOGo I'll be set. No need for any other device to watch streaming video.


HBOGO should definitely be their next priority. TiVo should just take the people who were working on the Amazon and Vudu apps and throw them into working on an HBO app


----------



## CloudAtlas

tarheelblue32 said:


> HBOGO should definitely be their next priority. TiVo should just take the people who were working on the Amazon and Vudu apps and throw them into working on an HBO app


TiVo does has no involvement in the development of third party applications. Or do you think it's just luck that most apps just happen to look the same on most devices? 

Unfortunately the content owners decide which platforms to support and both HBOGo and Showtime Anytime have been slow to add platforms. Otherwise HBOGo would have supported Amazon's platform from the start.


----------



## Joe01880

Thanks again Margret

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk


----------



## tarheelblue32

CloudAtlas said:


> TiVo does has no involvement in the development of third party applications. Or do you think it's just luck that most apps just happen to look the same on most devices?


I hear this line all the time, but I don't believe it for a second. There is no way that TiVo has NO involvement in developing the streaming apps. Of course there is involvement, there has to be. If there were truly NO involvement by TiVo, then TiVo couldn't keep a third-party app off their devices even if they wanted to. TiVo and the third-parties develop the streaming apps together in partnership. The apps look the same (or similar) across devices because you don't need to reinvent the wheel.

Do you really think it was Amazon and Vudu who decided to only have apps for the Roamio and Mini now and not do a Premiere app until next year? Of course not. That was all TiVo's decision.



CloudAtlas said:


> Unfortunately the content owners decide which platforms to support and both HBOGo and Showtime Anytime have been slow to add platforms. Otherwise HBOGo would have supported Amazon's platform from the start.


Certainly the content owners have to give consent to having a TiVo app, just as TiVo has to consent to allowing the third-party app on their platform. Now that HBO is going to sell HBOGO over-the-top, they will want access to the cord-cutter segment, and TiVo is an excellent way to get at that. I think an HBO app will come eventually, but it could take a few years.


----------



## tatergator1

The apps are mainly developed by the respective content companies. Tivo's role in the actual app design is more minimal. Tivo's involvement is on the integration side. Making the necessary tweaks for the 3rd party apps to play nice with the Tivo box, as well as database integration so that Tivo Search reaches across all providers.

One thing I don't think I've seen any discussion on is what is the code base for these apps? Are these running in the Opera Browser for content selection portion of the app or are these something else similar to the current Netflix app? It seems clear that the apps have access to Tivo's core functionality since they can output video in native 24 fps. I'm guessing we have to wait until moyekj or telemark get the updates and have a chance to dig into how they function.


----------



## aaronwt

One thing for sure though, they need to do a better job optimizing the Amazon app to run on the TiVos. It is laggy. While the Vudu app is snappy. Even entering text too fast to log into the Amazon app can be an issue. While there were no problems doing it quickly when logging into the Vudu app.


----------



## tatergator1

aaronwt said:


> One thing for sure though, they need to do a better job optimizing the Amazon app to run on the TiVos. It is laggy. While the Vudu app is snappy. Even entering text too fast to log into the Amazon app can be an issue. While there were no problems doing it quickly when logging into the Vudu app.


I should have the Amazon app finally loaded tonight to test for myself, but the reports of that app being laggy were part of the motivation for discussing the code base. It seems like the Amazon app might be a custom implementation and not HTML5. Hopefully it can be optimized. I also wonder if the Roamio hardware is to blame, if it's poorly coded, or if there is a lot of latency in the communications between the Tivo and Amazon's servers?


----------



## bradleys

tatergator1 said:


> I should have the Amazon app finally loaded tonight to test for myself, but the reports of that app being laggy were part of the motivation for discussing the code base. It seems like the Amazon app might be a custom implementation and not HTML5. Hopefully it can be optimized. I also wonder if the Roamio hardware is to blame, if it's poorly coded, or if there is a lot of latency in the communications between the Tivo and Amazon's servers?


I have seen several implementations of the Amazon app and none of them are what I consider "snappy" - The TiVo implementation isn't really any different. But, to answer your question, each of these apps (Netflix, Amazon, Vudu, Pandora) are custom implementations, not Opera Store apps.

All that said, the TiVo Amazon app isn't terrible and I wouldn't expect much improvement in the future. The one item that does tick me off is no preview window during fast forward - I am not sure what they were thinking on that. Amazon develops and provides the apps for TiVo (and other delivery portals) to use - you're not going to get much of a change independently of Amazon and since I find the app globally sucky - it is, what it is.


----------



## hybucket

TiVoMargret said:


> This lets you "uncheck" the Amazon Prime catalog if you don't subscribe but still want to see the rent/buy portion of their catalog. (Or the other way around, if you only want to see the Prime Instant Video items.)
> 
> --Margret


Sorry - I'm a bit late reading this thread.
Where do you find the option to see only the Amazon Prime items? Is this inside the Amazon app, or in TiVO settings?


----------



## Dan203

CloudAtlas said:


> TiVo does has no involvement in the development of third party applications. Or do you think it's just luck that most apps just happen to look the same on most devices?
> 
> Unfortunately the content owners decide which platforms to support and both HBOGo and Showtime Anytime have been slow to add platforms. Otherwise HBOGo would have supported Amazon's platform from the start.


I think the HBOGo app is still written in Flash/native and most devices have transitioned to HTML5. Once HBOGo get's on the HTML5 bandwagon it'll likely appear on more devices, including TiVo.


----------



## aaronwt

bradleys said:


> I have seen several implementations of the Amazon app and none of them are what I consider "snappy" - The TiVo implementation isn't really any different. But, to answer your question, each of these apps (Netflix, Amazon, Vudu, Pandora) are custom implementations, not Opera Store apps.
> 
> All that said, the TiVo Amazon app isn't terrible and I wouldn't expect much improvement in the future. The one item that does tick me off is no preview window during fast forward - I am not sure what they were thinking on that. Amazon develops and provides the apps for TiVo (and other delivery portals) to use - you're not going to get much of a change independently of Amazon and since I find the app globally sucky - it is, what it is.


Most of my other devices with Amazon streaming have much faster Amazon apps. There is a big difference.

EDIT: But after using it some more and trying it again on other devices, I think the fact that the amazon streams ramp up to 1080P so quickly on the Roamio and Mini are worth it for me to put up with the lagginess. As long as i don't need to search for content and do a lot of UI navigation, i think I will be fine with it. Originally I was thinking that I would use my other devices instead. But even my FireTV doesn't ramp up the Amazon streams to 1080P as fast as my Roamios and Minis do.


----------



## Dan203

hybucket said:


> Sorry - I'm a bit late reading this thread.
> Where do you find the option to see only the Amazon Prime items? Is this inside the Amazon app, or in TiVO settings?


Settings, Channels, My Video Providers. There are two Amazon options one for "Instant Video" and one for "Instant Video (Prime)". Uncheck the "Instant Video" one and it'll no longer show you pay for items in search.


----------



## hybucket

Dan203 said:


> Settings, Channels, My Video Providers. There are two Amazon options one for "Instant Video" and one for "Instant Video (Prime)". Uncheck the "Instant Video" one and it'll no longer show you pay for items in search.


Thanks - checked everywhere but "channels." Duh.


----------



## Diana Collins

aaronwt said:


> Most of my other devices with Amazon streaming have much faster Amazon apps. There is a big difference.
> 
> EDIT: But after using it some more and trying it again on other devices, I think the fact that the amazon streams ramp up to 1080P so quickly on the Roamio and Mini are worth it for me to put up with the lagginess. As long as i don't need to search for content and do a lot of UI navigation, i think I will be fine with it. Originally I was thinking that I would use my other devices instead. But even my FireTV doesn't ramp up the Amazon streams to 1080P as fast as my Roamios and Minis do.


We have 4 different Roku models: Roku 3, Roku XD, Roku XS and a Roku Stick. The Roku 3 is definitely faster than the TiVo. The Stick is slightly snappier in some areas, but the Tivo Roamio version is about the same as the XD or XS. I haven't tried it on a Mini yet.

It seems that text entry is the biggest issue, at least using the SlidePro keyboard. While screen refreshes and updates could be quicker, it is not like the app is unusable, and compared to the what we had (a series of SD menus) it is vast improvement.

With all those Rokus simply having the app wasn't a burning issue for us, but we are out of digital audio inputs on our receiver (an older Yamaha without HDMI ports) so having these apps on the TiVo gets us 5.1 without having to move an optical cable.


----------



## djwilso

TiVoMargret said:


> At this time, I expect both VUDU and the new Amazon Instant Video app to be available on TiVo Premiere in the first half of 2015.


Ahh, this makes me happy.


----------



## Dan203

hybucket said:


> Thanks - checked everywhere but "channels." Duh.


Yeah not the most intuitive location.


----------



## CloudAtlas

tarheelblue32 said:


> I hear this line all the time, but I don't believe it for a second. There is no way that TiVo has NO involvement in developing the streaming apps. Of course there is involvement, there has to be. If there were truly NO involvement by TiVo, then TiVo couldn't keep a third-party app off their devices even if they wanted to.TiVo and the third-parties develop the streaming apps together in partnership. The apps look the same (or similar) across devices because you don't need to reinvent the wheel.


The apps look the same because the app vendors control the development process and use the same code base for each platform. This is why apps on TiVo don't behave in a similar way using the remote control. It's why TiVo had to add a [back] button to new remotes so app vendors would use it. TiVo clearly has involvement with supporting the app vendors and making sure any bugs or problems on TiVo's side are fixed. TiVo did this with Netflix when there where crashes but Netflix did all the app development work.



tarheelblue32 said:


> Do you really think it was Amazon and Vudu who decided to only have apps for the Roamio and Mini now and not do a Premiere app until next year? Of course not. That was all TiVo's decision.


All we know is what Margaret wrote which is "_Premiere will get the update too, but *the newer/faster [Roamio] hardware enables additional functionality*._"

Which to me means on the Premiere either the new apps themselves or the underlying library code needs enhancement/optimization (i.e. code needed on Premiere is done in hardware on Roamio). On Netflix's tech blog they detailed the problems with getting the apps to run on low-end hardware and it can be as simple as not enough RAM on the Premiere. With zero information there's no point in speculating.


----------



## mikeyts

bradleys said:


> I have seen several implementations of the Amazon app and none of them are what I consider "snappy" - The TiVo implementation isn't really any different.


It's response to navigation commands is pretty "snappy" on my game consoles (Xbox One, Xbox 360, PS3) but they're all way overpowered for the application. Its response to navigation commands is absolutely instantaneous in my new smart TV's implementation of the UI. Other than my Roamio Basic I have only one other device with this app, a 2012 Panasonic BDP which is definitely less responsive to commands than the app on Roamio.

I don't care--what makes the TiVo Amazon app my choice is TiVo's ability to output 24p encoded video (the great majority of commercial streaming video is so encoded) as a 24Hz signal which my new TV can display with even 5:5 pulldown; the others (except the old Panasonic BDP) can only give me 60Hz output with 2:3 pulldown (which the TV might detect and untangle, but it might not).

One other important things is that this version of the Amazon app is the only one of several available to me (Roku 3, Xbox One, Xbox 360, PS3, Panasonic BDP, this TV and this PC) which gives me DD+ from Amazon, notably superior to the sound that I get from the others.


----------



## morac

So I just got 20.4.5 installed, but I guess I won't be using the new Amazon or Vudu apps this weekend.


----------



## ThAbtO

zirkenz said:


> Margret, i am realy upset today. Why you ask? Well i have a Samsung galaxy tab 8.9 tablet running ice cream sandwich and i had tivo tablet installed on it. It auto updated and replaced it with a renamed app- Tivo Tablet (obsolete). When i tap to open i am met with a notification that says there is a new version would you like to download it now. when i click on yes it takes me to the play store and it tells me that the new version is not compatible with my tablet! It will not let me use the older version at all. So prior to update all was good and i could use it just fine for what i need it for, today i can't. I need to be able to use the older version! How can i revert back? Can i get the apk file? if not can you fix it so that it lets me continue to use the old app without forcing me to the play store?
> 
> I get that you don't want to pour resources into supporting it on older android os versions but at least let me continue using it. it worked fine before the update.


Unless the app was developed by Tivo, Margret may not be able to help. You would need to contact the original developer of the app.


----------



## ThAbtO

generaltso said:


> I don't suppose there's a way to also eliminate Paid Only items from showing up once you're in the app?


Settings > Channels > Providers

I got 2 Amazon entries, 1 says (Prime).


----------



## tatergator1

morac said:


> So I just got 20.4.5 installed, but I guess I won't be using the new Amazon or Vudu apps this weekend.


Margret indicated that you need to force a connection to Tivo once you've updated, and then the apps should show up within 4 hours.


----------



## ThAbtO

Logging in the Amazon Prime was a bit tedious, but I used KMTTG in Remote mode to type in and then pressing the Red C on the Tivo remote to OK it. I had to type a bit slower than normal. I hate to use the on-screen keyboard. eek


----------



## keenanSR

ThAbtO said:


> Logging in the Amazon Prime was a bit tedious, but I used KMTTG in Remote mode to type in and then pressing the Red C on the Tivo remote to OK it. I had to type a bit slower than normal. I hate to use the on-screen keyboard. eek


Yes, I didn't like that login either, for some reason it just felt too cumbersome. I do hope once it's done it will not need to be done repeatedly in the future.


----------



## generaltso

ThAbtO said:


> Settings > Channels > Providers
> 
> I got 2 Amazon entries, 1 says (Prime).


That only removes Paid items from TiVo search results. The Paid items still show up once you're in the Amazon app. I'm looking for a way to only ever see content that's free with Prime.


----------



## ThAbtO

generaltso said:


> That only removes Paid items from TiVo search results. The Paid items still show up once you're in the Amazon app. I'm looking for a way to only ever see content that's free with Prime.


Look for the Prime label on the top left corner of the title image, no label, no Prime streaming. FYI.


----------



## generaltso

ThAbtO said:


> Look for the Prime label on the top left corner of the title image, no label, no Prime streaming. FYI.


Right, but I dont think there's a way to have everything without the Prime label prevented from showing up at all. I'd feel better about letting the kids go crazy in the Amazon app if they could only see the Prime stuff.


----------



## bradleys

At the top of the Amazon app it has an option for Prime content - it changes the view. As far as I know, there is no way to hide "pay" content from within the app.


----------



## ThAbtO

generaltso said:


> Right, but I dont think there's a way to have everything without the Prime label prevented from showing up at all. I'd feel better about letting the kids go crazy in the Amazon app if they could only see the Prime stuff.


You can set a ratting limit in Amazon Prime settings, as well as have a PIN for the rental portion, if you do not want them to rent without authorization.


----------



## morac

tatergator1 said:


> Margret indicated that you need to force a connection to Tivo once you've updated, and then the apps should show up within 4 hours.


It made a connection on it's own about an hour after I installed it. Guess I'll see if I have the apps tomorrow. I did notice that it scheduled the next call for tomorrow morning, which is odd since scheduled connections are usually approximately 20 to 24 hours apart.


----------



## htruong74

I'm loving the new Vudu and Amazon instant video app. I bought 2 Ultra Violet videos already. Love that my TiVo with OTA broadcasting can play videos from Netflix, Hulu, and now Vudu and Amazon instant video with prime.

I don't miss my $150+ cable bill anymore.


----------



## randyb359

My parents Tivo rebooted to install the update while they were watching TV.


----------



## nooneuknow

randyb359 said:


> My parents Tivo rebooted to install the update while they were watching TV.


How do you know it did it "to install the update"? You don't. TiVos sometimes just randomly glitch and reboot (it's a fact of life). If TiVos have a software update waiting for a post 2AM period of inactivity, they will just automatically install, just like if you intentionally rebooted a TiVo, without being aware an update was ready for install.

I see these reports every time there is an update going around. Unless you can prove the TiVo intentionally rebooted, for the purpose of installing the update, such posts are false statements. For all anybody knows, unless they examined the logs, and found a smoking gun, the TiVo would have rebooted at that moment, regardless of any update being ready or not.


----------



## morac

tatergator1 said:


> Margret indicated that you need to force a connection to Tivo once you've updated, and then the apps should show up within 4 hours.


Well it's been over 4 hours since the connection, so that's not right.

I found her original post and it said that the apps should show up in 48 hours after the software installs.


----------



## innocentfreak

It looks like the audio static bug might be back. I was fast forwarding last night when the burst of audio static started. I had to hit the TiVo button to exit the show to stop the sound. Going back into the show it played fine after that.


----------



## StickyC

Do we know when the next scheduled 'sweeps' are? I just now (9am PST Nov 1) added my Romio to the priority list, so it sounds like I missed the first windows.

I'm actually interested in the premium channel recording Wishlist fix as we're unable to record hockey games off of Center Ice without manually tagging them and the hope is that this fixes that issue (see this thread).


----------



## BlackBetty

I hate the fact that when you fast forward in the Amazon app, you don't see a preview. Just a static screen. I wish it worked like the vudu app.


----------



## mrizzo80

innocentfreak said:


> It looks like the audio static bug might be back. I was fast forwarding last night when the burst of audio static started. I had to hit the TiVo button to exit the show to stop the sound. Going back into the show it played fine after that.


Same here.

I had a show paused for awhile and then either unpaused it or hit the Live TV button and got the loud static.


----------



## aaronwt

I thought one of the things this release was suppose to fix was audio dropouts from the preview window when going back and forth between full screen. Before this update I didn't have the audio dropouts very much. It was inconsistent. But now every time there is an audio dropout.


----------



## morac

For me the audio dropouts are there, but they are much better. Previously the audio dropped out for several seconds when going between the menus and full screen. Now it's only about half a second.


----------



## joewom

I Watched a few movies on the Amazon app. It hits 1080p the fastes of any device I have. Vudu still won't work.


----------



## aaronwt

Vudu hits three Bar HDX super fast too.


----------



## globalgreg

Is the universal search working with Amazon Prime videos? If you search for Sleepless in Seattle it doesn't list it as a Prime video but it is. I have both Amazon options selected in my video providers section.


----------



## TomK

I am very grateful to have Amazon Prime and VUDU on the Roamio now...thanks TiVo!


----------



## The Merg

NYHeel said:


> I just hope there's someway to separate out the items from Amazon that are Prime eligible vs. available for purchase/rent. Nearly everything out there shows the Amazon icon currently since nearly everything is available for purchase/rent from Amazon. I'm not interested in buying from Amazon. I'm hoping for a way to just show the amazon Prime items only in the universal search. Or at least show a separate logo for those items that eligible to be streamed for free with Prime.


That would be a nice feature.

- Merg


----------



## The Merg

globalgreg said:


> Is the universal search working with Amazon Prime videos? If you search for Sleepless in Seattle it doesn't list it as a Prime video but it is. I have both Amazon options selected in my video providers section.


I just checked and am seeing the same issue. If you launch the Amazon app on the TiVo, it will show up as Prime, but from within the TiVo Guide, you only have the option to buy it.

- Merg


----------



## globalgreg

The Merg said:


> I just checked and am seeing the same issue. If you launch the Amazon app on the TiVo, it will show up as Prime, but from within the TiVo Guide, you only have the option to buy it.
> 
> - Merg


Makes me think the search isn't accurate and I would need to go into each app to see if it's really not available. Not sure if this is just limited to the Amazon Prime videos?


----------



## s10023

it seems that the universal search does not work with amazon prime. hopefully all it needs is a database update.

there is another thread about this:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=522476


----------



## dalabera

I'm happy to with Vudu and A-Prime. Now the question is what will they release next on the following release???? 
Any guess?


----------



## tarheelblue32

dalabera said:


> I'm happy to with Vudu and A-Prime. Now the question is what will they release next on the following release????
> Any guess?


The next software update will likely just be bug fixes on the Roamios/Minis, and the Amazon Prime and Vudu apps for the Premieres.


----------



## TNStangman

tarheelblue32 said:


> The next software update will likely just be bug fixes on the Roamios/Minis, and the Amazon Prime and Vudu apps for the Premieres.


How about ALL HD Menu's........


----------



## tds4182

TNStangman said:


> How about ALL HD Menu's........


I just read all the posts of this subject and one basic thought comes to mind:

(BTW: I include myself in this group)

We are, as a group, the most self obsessed, demanding, TIVO nerds in the whole wide Universe!

I've lived long enough to remember sitting around an old Admiral radio that my Dad had to fine tune like a safecracker to even get a little bit of scratch noise out of the speakers.

Now look at what we have, we should all be ashamed.


----------



## tarheelblue32

TNStangman said:


> How about ALL HD Menu's........


Keep dreaming my friend, keep dreaming.


----------



## tatergator1

tarheelblue32 said:


> Keep dreaming my friend, keep dreaming.


With the recent Haxe re-write and no rumors of major enhancements on the horizon, the chances of all HD menus might have increased. (From 0.01% to 0.05%)


----------



## aaronwt

That's better than zero percent. I'm still hopeful that one day I might be able to move around to all the menus while a program still plays in the corner.


----------



## tarheelblue32

aaronwt said:


> That's better than zero percent. I'm still hopeful that one day I might be able to move around to all the menus while a program still plays in the corner.


It would make the current line of TiVos feel like more of a "finished product" rather than a "work in progress", but 99% of users probably don't even notice, so it's never going to be a priority for TiVo to fix.


----------



## StickyC

Got the update last night and it fixed my Center Ice wishlist issues. :up: :up: :up:


----------



## morac

Ran into my first major problem. Turned on my TV and there was no sound. I haven't seen that problem for a few releases. Hit instant replay and sound started working, but the Roamio Pro stopped responding to the remote. The remote activity light blinks but nothing happens. Not only that, but the TiVo app won't connect locally to the Roamio a Pro. It connects in away mode, no matter how many times I choose to connect it doesn't, so while I can see My Shows, I can't play anything on my TV. I can stream to the iPad, so I can see it's recording.

I tried accessing the Roamio from my Premiere and got a spinning circle and then finally the old style SD My Shows screen. I can stream videos that way, but something is definitely off.


----------



## The Merg

tarheelblue32 said:


> The next software update will likely just be bug fixes on the Roamios/Minis, and the Amazon Prime and Vudu apps for the Premieres.


And maybe they can fix the bug that has AOL On displaying on my Mini when it is not selected as a Video Provider!

- Merg


----------



## The Merg

tarheelblue32 said:


> It would make the current line of TiVos feel like more of a "finished product" rather than a "work in progress", but 99% of users probably don't even notice, so it's never going to be a priority for TiVo to fix.


I think it's funny that if you go to change your Video Providers, that it goes from an HD screen to an SD screen back to an HD screen.

- Merg


----------



## kokishin

The Merg said:


> And maybe they can fix the bug that has AOL On displaying on my Mini when it is not selected as a Video Provider!
> 
> - Merg


I noticed that too but I thought I was the only one blessed with AOL on my Mini even though I unchecked it on my Pro. Nice to know I'm not alone. BTW, I asked Tivo tech support about it and they said it could take a few days to disappear on my Mini. Let's see... it's been a month now. No biggie though.


----------



## morac

Rebooted and now everything is working. The only oddity is that a recording that completed while the box was locked up, shows as being 2 hours and 1 minute in the My Shows screen. The actual recording is 61 minutes long, so something got messed up with the metadata.

Speaking of recordings, my Gotham SP refuses to record the extra one minute I set it to. I even deleted the SP and recreated it. I was hoping 20.4.5 would fix that, but it didn't. The false "2 hour 1 minute" recording was immediately after Gotham on the same channel.


----------



## mattack

Dan203 said:


> Yeah not the most intuitive location.


They should really rename it "Channels (and video providers)" or something like that.


----------



## The Merg

kokishin said:


> I noticed that too but I thought I was the only one blessed with AOL on my Mini even though I unchecked it on my Pro. Nice to know I'm not alone. BTW, I asked Tivo tech support about it and they said it could take a few days to disappear on my Mini. Let's see... it's been a month now. No biggie though.


Funny how any other one that I select or de-select updates immediately. And it's been over 3 months for me.

- Merg


----------



## elborak

tatergator1 said:


> With the recent Haxe re-write and no rumors of major enhancements on the horizon, the chances of all HD menus might have increased. (From 0.01% to 0.05%)


----------



## morac

And now the BlackList deleted itself, or more specifically the second recording (since I rebooted near the beginning) deleted itself when it finished recording.


----------



## lpwcomp

morac said:


> And now the BlackList deleted itself, or more specifically the second recording (since I rebooted near the beginning) deleted itself when it finished recording.


What does "History" say?


----------



## lpwcomp

Anyone else seeing the following problem:

Both of my Roamios, which have been updated, lose the grouping setting for SD (i.e. for Series 3 or earlier or pyTivo shares) playlists if I go TiVo Central. I select one from "My Shows", groups are off, enter "2" to turn them on. As long as I don't go to TiVo Central, it stays set. If I do go to TiVo Central, the next time I select one, groups are off again.

It is not happening on my Premiere which is still running 20.4.4a


----------



## Bierboy

Bytez said:


> Same here.


Ditto (on a Premiere)


----------



## morac

lpwcomp said:


> What does "History" say?


Good question.

It says "Duplicate", which makes no sense since that's not a deletion reason. That's a reason for not recording.


----------



## lpwcomp

morac said:


> Good question.
> 
> It says "Duplicate", which makes no sense since that's not a deletion reason. That's a reason for not recording.


Makes no sense to me either. I could understand if they had introduced a bug whereby in this situation, it didn't resume recording that got interrupted by the reboot. Did you look at the second piece while it was in progress?


----------



## slowbiscuit

lpwcomp said:


> Anyone else seeing the following problem:
> 
> Both of my Roamios, which have been updated, lose the grouping setting for SD (i.e. for Series 3 or earlier or pyTivo shares) playlists if I go TiVo Central. I select one from "My Shows", groups are off, enter "2" to turn them on. As long as I don't go to TiVo Central, it stays set. If I do go to TiVo Central, the next time I select one, groups are off again.


Yep, seeing this too.


----------



## morac

lpwcomp said:


> Makes no sense to me either. I could understand if they had introduced a bug whereby in this situation, it didn't resume recording that got interrupted by the reboot. Did you look at the second piece while it was in progress?


I'm pretty certain I checked it but I'm not 100% sure. I waited for it to "finish" and then transferred the same recording from another TiVo box. I also then deleted the first 3 minute recording, so the history screen shows both "user deleted" and "duplicate".


----------



## takeagabu

Has anyone else had the new amazon app freeze?

I got a message that said something like the movie you requested in not available right now. The it was stuck on a buffering screen. After trying everything thing else, I had to reboot the machine.


----------



## Jed1

I figure that I would post this in the Raomio release notes also. I have a Premiere with the winter update and the HuffPost, TechCrunch, and MovieFone apps don't work. If you click on this you just get to a splash screen and it just sits there. Two other owners reported this.
One owner also can not connect to the weatherforus app.
I know the HuffPost app worked about a month ago so I am not sure if the update broke these or they are no longer available.

Another issue is when exploring a show and you are looking for the upcoming episodes, it will list channels that are not even in your lineup. It appears that the channels are from other cable lineups.
I had this happen on my one Premiere that suffered through the reboot issue a few weeks ago. I did not bother to troubleshoot the issue as I wanted to watch some shows I recorded. I did note that the issue cleared itself when I looked a few days later.
This did not occur on my other Premiere.
This event happened to me after the reboot issue and not after the winter update. 
I am mentioning it today as there is another Premiere owner that is reporting his box is now doing this today. It might be a guide data issue.


----------



## tatergator1

Jed1 said:


> Another issue is when exploring a show and you are looking for the upcoming episodes, it will list channels that are not even in your lineup. It appears that the channels are from other cable lineups.
> I had this happen on my one Premiere that suffered through the reboot issue a few weeks ago. I did not bother to troubleshoot the issue as I wanted to watch some shows I recorded. I did note that the issue cleared itself when I looked a few days later.
> This did not occur on my other Premiere.
> This event happened to me after the reboot issue and not after the winter update.
> I am mentioning it today as there is another Premiere owner that is reporting his box is now doing this today. It might be a guide data issue.


This issue has been persisting since prior to the update. It appears to be a issue with data pulled from Tivo's servers during things like Search and Explore this Show. When you access screens which display info based on the databse on your personal Tivo box, everything will be correct.


----------



## Jed1

tatergator1 said:


> This issue has been persisting since prior to the update. It appears to be a issue with data pulled from Tivo's servers during things like Search and Explore this Show. When you access screens which display info based on the databse on your personal Tivo box, everything will be correct.


Thanks. I only seen it that one night but wasn't sure if the reboot issue caused it or one of the updates caused it. I did not bother with it but noticed the next day it was gone so I forgot about it.

Oh, anything on the apps that I listed? Curious to see if the issue is on the Roamio platform.


----------



## lpwcomp

Jed1 said:


> Thanks. I only seen it that one night but wasn't sure if the reboot issue caused it or one of the updates caused it. I did not bother with it but noticed the next day it was gone so I forgot about it.
> 
> Oh, anything on the apps that I listed? Curious to see if the issue is on the Roamio platform.


For me, both MovieFone and HuffPost get their respective splash screens then a screen that has a circled X and:

Sorry!
The app failed to load. Please check your connections
and try again.

REFRESH

TechCrunch gets the splash screen and then goes black.

This is on both my Roamios, which have been updated, and my Premiere, which has not.


----------



## NorthAlabama

lpwcomp said:


> For me, both MovieFone and HuffPost get their respective splash screens then a screen that has a circled X and:
> 
> Sorry!
> The app failed to load. Please check your connections
> and try again.
> 
> REFRESH
> 
> TechCrunch gets the splash screen and then goes black.
> 
> This is on both my Roamios, which have been updated, and my Premiere, which has not.


same for my pxl, reported.


----------



## csell

lpwcomp said:


> Anyone else seeing the following problem:
> 
> Both of my Roamios, which have been updated, lose the grouping setting for SD (i.e. for Series 3 or earlier or pyTivo shares) playlists if I go TiVo Central. I select one from "My Shows", groups are off, enter "2" to turn them on. As long as I don't go to TiVo Central, it stays set. If I do go to TiVo Central, the next time I select one, groups are off again.
> 
> It is not happening on my Premiere which is still running 20.4.4a


Same here.


----------



## Jed1

lpwcomp said:


> For me, both MovieFone and HuffPost get their respective splash screens then a screen that has a circled X and:
> 
> Sorry!
> The app failed to load. Please check your connections
> and try again.
> 
> REFRESH
> 
> TechCrunch gets the splash screen and then goes black.
> 
> This is on both my Roamios, which have been updated, and my Premiere, which has not.


Thanks. I noticed this about two days ago. I thought that they were in between shows or something.

I do not even get an error message, it just goes to the splash screen and sits there. Tech Crunch goes to a black screen.


----------



## morac

Jed1 said:


> Thanks. I noticed this about two days ago. I thought that they were in between shows or something.
> 
> I do not even get an error message, it just goes to the splash screen and sits there. Tech Crunch goes to a black screen.


Seeing the same thing on my Roamio, so I assume it's affecting everyone. Moviefone and Huffington Post give a "Sorry" screen.

Of course HSN still works.

Edit:

I let Margret know about this problem on Twitter and she escalated it.


----------



## morac

Margret said Huff Post and Moviefone are working. TC is still being worked on.


----------



## Jed1

morac said:


> Margret said Huff Post and Moviefone are working. TC is still being worked on.


Not here, it is the opposite. TechCrunch works and HuffPost and Moviefone have a message, SORRY App failed to load. Please check your connections and try again. 
At least this is better than what I had for past couple of days were I would just get the splash screen and no message.


----------



## mmf01

Watching a show...After a few minutes, audio cuts out every 2 seconds back and forth cycling continuously while watching a show. It's not the recording as either pausing or rebooting and playing the same time frame does not reproduce the same results. First time this has happpened. On 20.4.5 update.


----------



## Rowsdower

It's nice that Amazon Prime streaming has finally arrived, but I don't regret losing patience and buying a Roku 3 box.

For some reason, the video and audio keep dropping out; for a few seconds, I get a black screen and silence. Then the content returns in progress (as though it's been playing nonstop, so I missed that part). I've never experienced this problem with the aforementioned Roku 3 box.

Also, the past fifteen years of TiVo DVR ownership have conditioned me to use the "clear" button to clear graphics from the screen (hence its name). I do so reflexively, resulting in unintended exits from the application.

If and when these issues are addressed, I'll give the feature another try.


----------



## Jed1

For those who are interested, the three apps are working. I tried them at 11:00 AM this morning.


----------



## mikeyts

Rowsdower said:


> It's nice that Amazon Prime streaming has finally arrived, but I don't regret losing patience and buying a Roku 3 box.


Not having your problems with it. The Amazon app on TiVo has 3 capabilities that Roku 3 lacks:

the ability to output Amazon's 24p video encodes at 24Hz
the ability to stream Amazon's 1080p video encodes
the ability to stream noticeably superior Dolby Digital Plus 5.1 sound


----------



## Rowsdower

mikeyts said:


> Not having your problems with it.


I retested it and didn't experience any dropouts, so that may have been a transient glitch.

I just wish that the "clear" button would function as...well, a "clear" button  or at least _not_ as an "exit" button. The "TiVo" button operates nearly identically (with only the subsequent menu position differing slightly), so I don't see the logic.

It's not that waiting for the graphics to clear is a big deal. It's just that I keep forgetting to do that (and exiting the application accidentally).



> _The Amazon app on TiVo has 3 capabilities that Roku 3 lacks:
> 
>  the ability to output Amazon's 24p video encodes at 24Hz_


Indeed, that piqued my interest. (Had I realized that the Roku Streaming Stick supports 24Hz output, I would have given that model stronger consideration.)

My current television monitor displays 60Hz only (so a 24Hz signal ends up being converted anyway). But I might replace it as soon as this month, in which case I hope that my new unit's pulldown detection/removal will compensate.

I'll note, though, that I'm not especially sensitive to judder (except when I'm consciously watching for it).



> _ the ability to stream Amazon's 1080p video encodes_


Yeah, that's a major plus. My current screen is too small for me to notice the difference, but an upgrade would change that too.

I pre-ordered Amazon's Fire TV Stick, which should deliver capability #2 (but not #1, unfortunately).



> _ the ability to stream noticeably superior Dolby Digital Plus 5.1 sound_


I don't own (or intend to purchase) audio equipment with which to benefit from that, but I understand why it's important to others.


----------



## Davisadm

TNStangman said:


> How about ALL HD Menu's........


Menus are menus. It does not matter if they are in HD or not, as long as they provide the info needed.


----------



## tarheelblue32

Davisadm said:


> Menus are menus. It does not matter if they are in HD or not, as long as they provide the info needed.


The worst thing to me about when the TiVo switches from HD to SD menus is that every now and then I will get a loud burst of audio static. If all menus were in HD, that wouldn't happen.


----------



## mikeyts

Davisadm said:


> Menus are menus. It does not matter if they are in HD or not, as long as they provide the info needed.


Well, the HD menus have the video inset, which may or may not be counted as an advantage.


----------



## mikeyts

Rowsdower said:


> Indeed, that piqued my interest. (Had I realized that the Roku Streaming Stick supports 24Hz output, I would have given that model stronger consideration.)
> 
> My current television monitor displays 60Hz only (so a 24Hz signal ends up being converted anyway). But I might replace it as soon as this month, in which case I hope that my new unit's pulldown detection/removal will compensate.
> 
> I'll note, though, that I'm not especially sensitive to judder (except when I'm consciously watching for it).


I recently purchased a cool new 60" television coming from a 7 y/o 46" Mitsubishi CCFL backlit panel. The new TV can display 24Hz input with even 5:5 pulldown and no added judder. I'm not especially sensitive to 2:3 pulldown judder either, but it gives me warm fuzzies to know that uneven pulldown is not being applied .


----------



## kokishin

mikeyts said:


> Well, the HD menus have the video inset, which may or may not be counted as an advantage.


I like the video in menu (not sure what to call it) I see with my Pro. I wish the Mini had an option to do that too. Having said that, I go to Tivo Central on my Mini to relinquish the tuner.


----------



## trip1eX

Davisadm said:


> Menus are menus. It does not matter if they are in HD or not, as long as they provide the info needed.


Yeah I'd rather have many other things than the rest of the menus in HD.


----------



## iconoclast

How do I get the update? I still have software version 20.4.4xxxxxxx
Why does't it automatically update when it successfully communicates each day? 

TiVo Roamio Pro. 2 weeks old. I get an audio dropout when switching from menu to full screen, etc.


----------



## Finalrinse

I have a Roamio Pro and three Mini's all with the latest upgrade 20.4.5.
The Roamio Pro and one of the Mini's show the Amazon Instant Video app but the other two Mini's do not. I have done connect to server and restarted a few times but still can't get it.
Any ideas?


----------



## Keen

iconoclast said:


> How do I get the update? I still have software version 20.4.4xxxxxxx
> Why does't it automatically update when it successfully communicates each day?
> 
> TiVo Roamio Pro. 2 weeks old. I get an audio dropout when switching from menu to full screen, etc.


Read the first post in the thread.


----------



## Aareses

For those of you with update 20.4.5 on a Roamio model, who are having issues with the Amazon Instant Video (Prime) displaying, I started a new thread (below) with a possible solution:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=522721


----------



## iconoclast

Keen said:


> Read the first post in the thread.


Thanks, I reread it & had not really paid attention to the last line when I had read it b4 positing. I must not be on this priority list. I assume I will get the update during one of the daily communications with the network by the end of this month w/o having to take any action.


----------



## Finalrinse

Finalrinse said:


> I have a Roamio Pro and three Mini's all with the latest upgrade 20.4.5.
> The Roamio Pro and one of the Mini's show the Amazon Instant Video app but the other two Mini's do not. I have done connect to server and restarted a few times but still can't get it.
> Any ideas?


The app just showed up on my other two Mini's, I guess I just needed to wait another day.


----------



## jld368

Is there a fix coming? I'm on 20.4.5 and my Roamio seems to randomly reboot. Often while its recording something, but not necessarily. I've had it reboot while watching a show, transferring a show and recording shows. Really sucks for it to have become so unreliable.


----------



## CoxInPHX

Noticed a Pending Restart, Roamio is now installing a new update, I already had 20.4.5, Perhaps a bug fix?

Mini also now installing a new update.


----------



## rsnaider

Just finished and the new build is 20.4.5c.

Hopefully this fixes my spinning circle issue.


----------



## CoxInPHX

*20.4.5c* is the newly installed update. Both Roamio and Mini received them, but not the Premieres.

Amazon Instant Prime is noticeably more responsive.


----------



## jld368

I just had it randomly reboot again and now it says "Installing an update. this will take a few minutes". And now I have 20.4.5c. Hope it's more stable!


----------



## keenanSR

No release notes on this update yet?


----------



## nooneuknow

keenanSR said:


> No release notes on this update yet?


The one first reported less than an hour ago? A letter revision level, seriously???

We'll hear about it when TiVoMargret has time to go above and beyond her actual job responsibilities, if/when she has been given to go ahead to do more, for the same pay.

Some people seriously must not remember the years of there being no true "release notes", other than TiVo's website noting the date and version (and little more), a week after final rollout completed, not even acknowledging bugs existed, or they had fixed any, only announcing new "features and functions".


----------



## keenanSR

nooneuknow said:


> The one first reported less than an hour ago? A letter revision level, seriously???
> 
> We'll hear about it when TiVoMargret has time to go above and beyond her actual job responsibilities, if/when she has been given to go ahead to do more, for the same pay.
> 
> Some people seriously must not remember the years of there being no true "release notes", other than TiVo's website noting the date and version (and little more), a week after final rollout completed, not even acknowledging bugs existed, or they had fixed any, only announcing new "features and functions".


Chill out, I was just asking, you can go back to your meds now.


----------



## nooneuknow

keenanSR said:


> Chill out, I was just asking, you can go back to your meds now.


That is about the same as my initial thoughts on your post. "Take a freaking pill, man. It's only been an hour since sighting".

Instead, I put it in proper context. Maybe I should have used some emoticons?


----------



## keenanSR

nooneuknow said:


> That is about the same as my initial thoughts on your post. "Take a freaking pill, man. It's only been an hour since sighting".
> 
> Instead, I put it in proper context. Maybe I should have used some emoticons?


Maybe you should not be so combative and just have said "no, there are no release notes yet". See how easy that is?


----------



## nooneuknow

keenanSR said:


> Maybe you should not be so combative and just have said "no, there are no release notes yet". See how easy that is?


If there's any chance you'll appreciate the release notes more, if/when they arrive, I'm fine. If not, I'm fine.

If your post had said "Any release notes on this update anywhere?", I'd have breezed right through. "No release notes on this update yet?" comes across quite differently (or at the moment it does, no matter how I look at it). It must be a Tuesday...

[/end of "phrasing" discussion]


----------



## bradleys

keenanSR said:


> No release notes on this update yet?


You will not see any release notes - I am sure this is just bug fixes. Considering how quickly this is following the last release, probably a single fix for something pretty critical.

But because it is a bug fix only - no announcement.


----------



## nooneuknow

bradleys said:


> You will not see any release notes - I am sure this is just big fixes. Considering how quickly this is following the last release, probably a single fix for something pretty critical.
> 
> But because it is a bug fix only - no announcement.


I almost said that, at my second thoughts, then figured I'd be told I was wrong, or my post would be immediately followed by (gasp) letter revision release notes, so I went with the third set of thoughts.

FWIW: TiVoMargret did post about the last letter revision to go out. But, that was on the Premiere thread, as only the Premiere required a letter revision release. If you no longer follow the dual threads, just because you don't have a Premiere, you miss out on things like that. I try to keep up to speed on as many platforms as I can, so I can better help in the help threads.

Anybody still wanting to see if the TCF powers that be would combine the post version # consolidation software revision threads into a single thread, for Roamio & Premiere, letting TiVoMargret split what may be different for which platform herself? It seemed like a good idea, until all the whining and hissy fits over the either delayed, or uncertain, amazon and vudu apps came spewing out in the Premiere thread. After that, I'm not so sure consolidating the release threads is a good idea (which is not my idea, but one proposed by others in the past)..


----------



## morac

Maybe it fixes the UI lockup I experienced once and never again. What I'd really like fixed is my Season Pass which despite everything I've tried, refuses to honor the stop x minutes later option.


----------



## nooneuknow

morac said:


> Maybe it fixes the UI lockup I experienced once and never again. What I'd really like fixed is my Season Pass which despite everything I've tried, refuses to honor the stop x minutes later option.


Have you tried CPI&TDL (Clear Program Information & To Do List)?

That's helped some people, with a few recent issues, and might actually work, based on some experiences I've had, using it for many reasons. When the new guide data has downloaded, the SPs & ARWLs are rebuilt from scratch.

You've had your SP problem long enough, that I'd try that if the update doesn't fix it within 48 hours.


----------



## morac

nooneuknow said:


> Have you tried CPI&TDL (Clear Program Information & To Do List)?
> 
> That's helped some people, with a few recent issues, and might actually work, based on some experiences I've had, using it for many reasons. When the new guide data has downloaded, the SPs & ARWLs are rebuilt from scratch.
> 
> You've had your SP problem long enough, that I'd try that if the update doesn't fix it within 48 hours.


It's just one SP that has the problem. I'd rather not take the "nuclear option" to try and fix it. I'm still trying out things recommended by TiVo support. My last test was turning off overlap protection. This week's test is to change from 1 minute longer to 5 minutes.

Considering I can only test one attempted fix per week, it's very slow going. At some point it will be moot as the season will be over.


----------



## keenanSR

bradleys said:


> You will not see any release notes - I am sure this is just big fixes. Considering how quickly this is following the last release, probably a single fix for something pretty critical.
> 
> But because it is a bug fix only - no announcement.


Thanks!


----------



## ajwees41

bradleys said:


> You will not see any release notes - I am sure this is just big fixes. Considering how quickly this is following the last release, probably a single fix for something pretty critical.
> 
> But because it is a bug fix only - no announcement.


correct via twitter tivo says just bug updates


----------



## TiVoMargret

We have begun the full rollout of 20.4.5c. All retail Roamio, Premiere, and Mini boxes should receive it by Thanksgiving.

The "c" version includes two additional bug fixes:

- the occasional reboot when exiting the VUDU app
- a reboot on Mini related to changing the video resolution


----------



## kokishin

TiVoMargret said:


> We have begun the full rollout of 20.4.5c. All retail Roamio, Premiere, and Mini boxes should receive it by Thanksgiving.
> 
> The "c" version includes two additional bug fixes:
> 
> - the occasional reboot when exiting the VUDU app
> - a reboot on Mini related to changing the video resolution


Already got 20.4.5c on my Pro and Mini. So far, so good.

Thank you for your usual excellent communication.


----------



## globalgreg

TiVoMargret said:


> We have begun the full rollout of 20.4.5c. All retail Roamio, Premiere, and Mini boxes should receive it by Thanksgiving.
> 
> The "c" version includes two additional bug fixes:
> 
> - the occasional reboot when exiting the VUDU app
> - a reboot on Mini related to changing the video resolution


Any word on searching Amazon Instant Video? My Roamio Pro doesn't seem to search it correctly. As an example, search for Sleepless in Seattle...it finds it on Amazon Instant Video but not Amazon Prime video (it doesn't show the free streaming option of it for Prime Members). I have both Amazon options selected in my video providers.


----------



## kokishin

globalgreg said:


> Any word on searching Amazon Instant Video? My Roamio Pro doesn't seem to search it correctly. As an example, search for Sleepless in Seattle...it finds it on Amazon Instant Video but not Amazon Prime video (it doesn't show the free streaming option of it for Prime Members). I have both Amazon options selected in my video providers.


I have Amazon Prime. After reading your post, I tried searching for "Sleepless in Seattle" on my Pro. It's not initially obvious but the Tivo search function will take you to the free Amazon Prime version.

Here are the steps to get to it:
After searching and finding "Sleepless in Seattle", go to "Get this movie"->"Get from"->"BUY HD Amazon Instant Video $12.99". Tivo will access "Sleepless In Seattle" under the Amazon Instant Video app with the "Watch Now" highlighted in green. Above the "Watch Now", it states: "Prime - This title is included with Amazon Prime at no additional cost". Click on "Watch Now" and "Sleepless In Seattle" will start (no additional cost).


----------



## dswallow

kokishin said:


> I have Amazon Prime. After reading your post, I tried searching for "Sleepless in Seattle" on my Pro. It's not initially obvious but the Tivo search function will take you to the free Amazon Prime version.
> 
> Here are the steps to get to it:
> After searching and finding "Sleepless in Seattle", go to "Get this movie"->"Get from"->"BUY HD Amazon Instant Video $12.99". Tivo will access "Sleepless In Seattle" under the Amazon Instant Video app with the "Watch Now" highlighted in green. Above the "Watch Now", it states: "Prime - This title is included with Amazon Prime at no additional cost". Click on "Watch Now" and "Sleepless In Seattle" will start (no additional cost).


So basically the way it currently is working is that you don't get any indication of there not being a charge until you choose to go into the app by selecting the BUY option initially shown.

They really do need to enhance this so that we get a different icon for Prime content under the description during the search process, and an indication after selecting it that it falls under Prime and there would be no charge.


----------



## kokishin

dswallow said:


> So basically the way it currently is working is that you don't get any indication of there not being a charge until you choose to go into the app by selecting the BUY option initially shown.
> 
> They really do need to enhance this so that we get a different icon for Prime content under the description during the search process, and an indication after selecting it that it falls under Prime and there would be no charge.


It would be nice for the Tivo search function to indicate that the Prime version is available. But even when going directly to the Amazon Instant Video app (in lieu of using the Tivo search function), you still need to use the Amazon Instant Video search function or manually look for Prime videos.


----------



## nooneuknow

bradleys said:


> You will not see any release notes - I am sure this is just big fixes. Considering how quickly this is following the last release, probably a single fix for something pretty critical.
> 
> But because it is a bug fix only - no announcement.





TiVoMargret said:


> We have begun the full rollout of 20.4.5c. All retail Roamio, Premiere, and Mini boxes should receive it by Thanksgiving.
> 
> The "c" version includes two additional bug fixes:
> 
> - the occasional reboot when exiting the VUDU app
> - a reboot on Mini related to changing the video resolution


These look suspiciously like release notes. But, what do I know...


----------



## tatergator1

kokishin said:


> It would be nice for the Tivo search function to indicate that the Prime version is available. But even when going directly to the Amazon Instant Video app (in lieu of using the Tivo search function), you still need to use the Amazon Instant Video search function or manually look for Prime videos.


Tivo Search should allow you to filter so that you search only Prime content. In the settings, under Channels>My Video Providers, there should be two entries for Amazon. If you select only the "Prime" entry and uncheck the other, search results via Tivo Search should only yield results for free Prime titles.

I've not really tested this, but it's been explained as such by others. I think even TivoMargret posted about it somewhere.


----------



## JohnS-MI

Well, I have been checking every couple of nights. 20.4.5.c just showed up on my Roamio and Amazon was already there (both Prime and Instant). I had to sign into my account, but it immediately recognized me, offered up my watchlist, knew I was a Prime member.

I realized I have only used the Tivo Amazon once or twice in the past (I also have a Roku, which always supported Prime), so I am really not sure how much the UI has changed as I wasn't very familiar with the old. But it appears to work.

With my Roku, I found it much easier to search for content on my computer and throw it in my watchlist, and I think I will do that with Tivo as well. It is easy to search for (free) Prime content on your computer. I didn't have time tonight to watch a 2 hour movie, so I only opened the UI, made sure it knew me and my watchlist.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

The 20.4.5.c update appeared a couple days ago for my Roamio Pro. At first, all I noticed was the addition of Amazon and Roku.

Then I noticed that season pass changes were a lot slower than before. For example, if I change the order of the first two items on my season pass list, I see the word "updating" appear on the right side, then disappear from top to bottom going down the list. The disappearance used to take about a minute in the old software, now it takes a few minutes.

And tonight I noticed that I cannot add a new season pass. When I select "get season pass" for a show, the blue spinning circle appears for about 60 seconds, then goes away. The season pass was not activated. No error message was shown. A similar thing happens when I try to record a single episode of a show.

Is there a way for me to revert to the prior software? I don't need Amazon or Roku, but i do need the ability to add season passes and record shows.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

I was able to schedule a season pass by going to the tivo.com website and schedule the season pass there. About ten minutes later, the episodes appeared on my ToDo list, though the new season pass does not show up on the season pass list.


----------



## allstarz

Not to rain on a parade, or be telling tales out of school but thanks to this software rollout I have a tuning adapter firmware conflict with the newer security
Certificates in the software. I just a wk. ago replaced the premier 4 with a Roamio basic. Too bad the TiVo software engineers did not test the security certificates against currently used T.A. Firmware. From what I have read, the problem exists on different makes of T.A.'s and with various CATV providers. So, the issue is wide spread. Someone suggested leaving the older S.C.'s in place to provide for backwards compatibility.
Many of us affected TiVo customers will not see a firmware upgrade from the cable provider until 2015.
Just in time for Thanksgiving. Thank You TiVo for the turkey.


----------



## CoxInPHX

Is there any way to disable/remove the Vudu shortcut from the Minis? I have it unchecked on the Roamio, but it still shows up on one Mini but not the second one???

Hoping TiVo adds a Video Provider list to the Minis.

EDIT: Vudu disappeared after a few network connections and UI resets.


----------



## socrplyr

allstarz said:


> Not to rain on a parade, or be telling tales out of school but thanks to this software rollout I have a tuning adapter firmware conflict with the newer security
> Certificates in the software. I just a wk. ago replaced the premier 4 with a Roamio basic. Too bad the TiVo software engineers did not test the security certificates against currently used T.A. Firmware. From what I have read, the problem exists on different makes of T.A.'s and with various CATV providers. So, the issue is wide spread. Someone suggested leaving the older S.C.'s in place to provide for backwards compatibility.
> Many of us affected TiVo customers will not see a firmware upgrade from the cable provider until 2015.
> Just in time for Thanksgiving. Thank You TiVo for the turkey.


Please send any complaints about your cable company to your cable company.


----------



## chiguy50

CoxInPHX said:


> Is there any way to disable/remove the Vudu shortcut from the Minis? I have it unchecked on the Roamio, but it still shows up on one Mini but not the second one???
> 
> Hoping TiVo adds a Video Provider list to the Minis.
> 
> EDIT: Vudu disappeared after a few network connections and UI resets.


I have only Xfinity OD in My Providers list on my host Premiere Elite, but my Mini still shows Amazon Instant Video and VUDU even after numerous network connections and several hot reboots.

Also, since the latest incremental FW update I am unable to reinitialize the quick clear function (S-P-S-Pause-S). The other backdoor codes were accepted, but this one just isn't taking on my Mini. Any ideas? (My apologies if this is veering OT for this thread.)

And BTW what is a UI reset?


----------



## globalgreg

WorldBandRadio said:


> The 20.4.5.c update appeared a couple days ago for my Roamio Pro. At first, all I noticed was the addition of Amazon and Roku.
> 
> Then I noticed that season pass changes were a lot slower than before. For example, if I change the order of the first two items on my season pass list, I see the word "updating" appear on the right side, then disappear from top to bottom going down the list. The disappearance used to take about a minute in the old software, now it takes a few minutes.
> 
> And tonight I noticed that I cannot add a new season pass. When I select "get season pass" for a show, the blue spinning circle appears for about 60 seconds, then goes away. The season pass was not activated. No error message was shown. A similar thing happens when I try to record a single episode of a show.
> 
> Is there a way for me to revert to the prior software? I don't need Amazon or Roku, but i do need the ability to add season passes and record shows.





WorldBandRadio said:


> I was able to schedule a season pass by going to the tivo.com website and schedule the season pass there. About ten minutes later, the episodes appeared on my ToDo list, though the new season pass does not show up on the season pass list.


I described the EXACT same behavior in this thread http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=522798

You need to go into help, then restart, then you need to first clear thumb ratings & suggestions, then clear program info & to do list. This fixed my problem and adding or editing season passes became quick again.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

globalgreg said:


> I described the EXACT same behavior in this thread http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=522798
> 
> You need to go into help, then restart, then you need to first clear thumb ratings & suggestions, then clear program info & to do list. This fixed my problem and adding or editing season passes became quick again.


Thanks for the follow-up.

Yes, I did see your thread (and others on the topic) as I looked around the forum after I had posted my comments.

The reset is in progress as I type. I would have done it last night, but there was not enough time between recordings to do the reset.


----------



## CoxInPHX

chiguy50 said:


> I have only Xfinity OD in My Providers list on my host Premiere Elite, but my Mini still shows Amazon Instant Video and VUDU even after numerous network connections and several hot reboots.
> 
> Also, since the latest incremental FW update I am unable to reinitialize the quick clear function (S-P-S-Pause-S). The other backdoor codes were accepted, but this one just isn't taking on my Mini. Any ideas? (My apologies if this is veering OT for this thread.)
> 
> And BTW what is a UI reset?


Since the Premieres do not have Amazon Prime and Vudu, yet, the Mini should default to showing them. If the Host DVR is a Premiere, I don't think they can be removed.

A User Interface (UI) Reset is performed while in TiVo Central, by Pressing "Thumbs Down, Thumbs Up, Play, Play"


----------



## chiguy50

CoxInPHX said:


> Since the Premieres do not have Amazon Prime and Vudu, yet, the Mini should default to showing them. If the Host DVR is a Premiere, I don't think they can be removed.


That's as logical an explanation as any I can think of. If that is the case, then I should be able to remove them once these options are enabled for the Premiere (scheduled for next month I believe).



CoxInPHX said:


> A User Interface (UI) Reset is performed while in TiVo Central, by Pressing "Thumbs Down, Thumbs Up, Play, Play"


Thanks. What is the purpose of performing a UI reset? I don't recall ever having read about this.


----------



## HarperVision

chiguy50 said:


> .......What is the purpose of performing a UI reset? I don't recall ever having read about this.


To fix things like this:


----------



## ad301

20.4.5 has turned by Roamio Pro into an unreliable box, prone to freezes requiring power cycle reboots. Surprising and disappointing.


----------



## bradleys

ad301 said:


> 20.4.5 has turned by Roamio Pro into an unreliable box, prone to freezes requiring power cycle reboots. Surprising and disappointing.


If you are encountering this issue, you should contact TiVo immediately. First, you should expect a properly running TiVo and second, TiVo can grab your logs and make sure this doesn't happen to anyone else.

A box that constantly recycles and needs to be rebooted as you are reporting is a devastating issue for the build.


----------



## nooneuknow

bradleys said:


> If you are encountering this issue, you should contact TiVo immediately. First, you should expect a properly running TiVo and second, TiVo can grab your logs and make sure this doesn't happen to anyone else.
> 
> A box that constantly recycles and needs to be rebooted as you are reporting is a devastating issue for the build.


+1 Hoping TiVoMargret sees a post here is not the best approach, if you want something done about it. Although, I'd recommend both reporting to TiVo CS (even as painful and as hopeless as that feels), and a direct, *polite*, report of the situation sent directly to TiVoMargret, via email. She gets things done. But, it's still important that the actual CS folk log the matter as reported, as well. TiVo CS prioritizes what they report to TiVo, by the number of complaints, for each specific problem. If everybody skips that part, big issue fixes can get skipped over in whatever update (or patch made on their end of things) comes next.


----------



## ad301

I did email TiVoMargret 11 days ago in response to her invitation in this thread: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=522566. I didn't hear anything back, but I had hoped that 20.4.5c would address my issue. It didn't.

TiVo CS is now steering me towards the issue of too hot a signal, at 100% and SNR 42. I'm now waiting on delivery of a couple of attenuators from Amazon. (My local Radio Shack is just a sad place.)

It would be nice if that fixed the issue, although I don't understand how the Roamio could work perfectly well for 10 months, and then suddenly go off the rails just when a new software version came down. Maybe it's a coincidence...

I'll post back when anything changes.

Alan


----------



## nooneuknow

ad301 said:


> I did email TiVoMargret 11 days ago in response to her invitation in this thread: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=522566. I didn't hear anything back, but I had hoped that 20.4.5c would address my issue. It didn't.
> 
> TiVo CS is now steering me towards the issue of too hot a signal, at 100% and SNR 42. I'm now waiting on delivery of a couple of attenuators from Amazon. (My local Radio Shack is just a sad place.)
> 
> It would be nice if that fixed the issue, although I don't understand how the Roamio could work perfectly well for 10 months, and then suddenly go off the rails just when a new software version came down. Maybe it's a coincidence...
> 
> I'll post back when anything changes.
> 
> Alan


I suggest working towards getting the signal strength to not be pegged at 100% (which could mean 150, 200, etc.). TiVo CS tends to fixate on the SNR, but that only is in context (to a "hot signal") when combined with a pegged 100% signal.

Example: If you have an 85% strength (which is often more than enough, but not enough to hurt anything), but have a 42dB SNR, TiVo CS will still tell you to attenuate.

TiVo's SNR is not a true industry standard SNR. A true SNR can NEVER be too high. It's literally, and technically, impossible. But, TiVo calculates it differently, making it impossible to compare to nearly any other known device that has a SNR reading to look at.

Less people use attenuators these days, and some cable markets have stopped using them. Mine prohibits their own techs from using them, or allowing them to be left in, if they come across any. In my market, attenuation must be achieved by use of added splitters, or using splitters with more ports than needed, then terminating the unused ports. On a 1GHz HFC RF cable network, attenuators just don't prove reliable, as they don't attenuate equally across all frequencies.

I use them to determine how many dB I must subtract from the strength, then use the right splitter for the task. If TiVo used a dBmV reading for strength, this extra step would not be needed, as a hot signal would manifest as an excessive +dBmV reading, while a weak signal would manifest as an excessive -dBmV reading. TiVo's sweet spot is usually slightly in the negative, while to most devices a 0.0dBmV reading is "perfect", but can go up to +/- 12 before problems arise (YMMV on that range, depending on cable market, cable network, true SNR, and equipment).


----------



## SJJ

I now have version 20.4.5c-USA-6-848. I think it just came.

The box rebooted soon after I got home. Yesterday it was great quick response. Now it responds slowly if at all , blue spinning circle. Jerky play back, fast forward doesn't work. I want my old version back. Massive pixelation.


----------



## nooneuknow

SJJ said:


> I now have version 20.4.5c-USA-6-848. I think it just came.
> 
> The box rebooted soon after I got home. Yesterday it was great quick response. Now it responds slowly if at all , blue spinning circle. Jerky play back, fast forward doesn't work. I want my old version back. Massive pixelation.


Welcome to the club. Do a bit of reading, and you'll find the blue circle of waiting issue has been afflicting many, before and/or after this update. There are a few things that can get you a temporary reprieve, while some seem to be not reporting the temporary part.

Reboot with the Clear Thumb Ratings & Suggestions option -then-
Reboot with the Clear Program Information & To Do List option

Make sure you have at least 3 hours of time before your next scheduled recording (that is important to you) before proceeding, just to be safe. Don't start changing/adding things until at least a few hours after everything is seemingly up and working, to prevent winding up back where you were.

You will not lose your SPs/ARWLs/TDL, but they will be cleared, then repopulated automatically, after everything is re-downloaded, and indexed/processed. It all takes time, and there is no guarantee it will stay "fixed", as the bad data seems to be coming from the TiVo Service, rather than the software on the TiVos.


----------



## SJJ

I read the other posts. I wasn't doing new SP or WL so I didn't try the clear items. I called support they said reboot without Ethernet connected. Then connect and make connection. Menu items are faster now, but I hung up before download was done, now cs is closed for the night. Scrolling npl is ok now but after selecting a show episode list takes a long time to appear, some times does not work, get C501 error. I will see what the clear and reboot does and call back tomorrow. I have had 7 TIVOS and this is the worst experience I have ever had.

Original series 1
Updated series 1
Series 2
Pioneer DVD recorder
DT 
Series 3
Roamio plus


----------



## nooneuknow

SJJ said:


> I read the other posts. I wasn't doing new SP or WL so I didn't try the clear items. I called support they said reboot without Ethernet connected. Then connect and make connection. Menu items are faster now, but I hung up before download was done, now cs is closed for the night. Scrolling npl is ok now but after selecting a show episode list takes a long time to appear, some times does not work, get C501 error. I will see what the clear and reboot does and call back tomorrow. I have had 7 TIVOS and this is the worst experience I have ever had.
> 
> Original series 1
> Updated series 1
> Series 2
> Pioneer DVD recorder
> DT
> Series 3
> Roamio plus


Considering your join date, and post count, I believe you. If you were new to TCF, or posted often, I might be skeptical of such claims. Sorry that you have to deal with it. But, you are not alone, and TiVo is aware of the general situation.

If you call TiVo and ask to be placed on log-monitoring, and are versed in the use of 777-clear and 911-clear for marking your logs, you can help pinpoint what stands out as different for your case.

From Live TV viewing mode:

777-clear - marks logs with date/time stamp, and enables additional logging for AV issues.

911-clear - marks logs with date/time stamp, typically used after an uninitiated reboot, or simply for marking points in the log, isolating what sections/segments TiVo needs to look at.

Both can be used as often as you want/need to use them, and will mark the logs, regardless of being on monitoring. You must press clear before the channel can change to 777 or 911. When using them, TiVo requests that you make two manual back-to-back service connections, to get all the data to them. If you are not on log monitoring, but call after using these sequences, they may still be able to isolate a problem (like a hard drive issue or signal issue, for example), to something you can do something about, or something that requires repair.

If you make the request, and they put you on monitoring, just follow the direction they should give you for when to use each. You can view your own logs by going to System Information, and pressing clear-clear-enter-enter-0, and see the markers for yourself. Using this TiVo Backdoor sequence can cause instability, and has options the novice should steer clear of.


----------



## SJJ

Lol. I've been around since the time when to replace the hard drive you had to format it yourself and were happy to be upgrading to 40 gb.  Thank goodness for the people who made the install routines . 

I read the forum - sometimes a lot, sometimes not. Not big on posting if I have nothing to say. There is a stack of TIVOS in the garage. Maybe I'll take picture this weekend, add that to my to-do list.


----------



## SJJ

I just went downstairs to see if the reboot and clear suggestions was finished so I could start start the second clear and reboot over night. I tested menus and playing and fast forward / rewind and TiVo is back to its old zippy self, so I will skip the second clear for now. 

I can always count on quick fixes from the forum gurus. Many thanks.

P.S. The series 2 is the dvd recorder not a separate box. But there is a mini waiting to be connected, is that back to 7 or only 6.5? 

darn rules that let cable encrypt local channels when they go all digital. I was just using basic cable in the office, now I need a box.


----------



## SJJ

Box rebooted again today and response is very slow. TiVo support now says SNR is too high, need attenuator.


----------



## JoeKustra

SJJ said:


> Box rebooted again today and response is very slow. TiVo support now says SNR is too high, need attenuator.


May I ask the number? Mine is usually 36 or 37.


----------



## SJJ

The number is 43. If it is such a big problem why doesn't the box give you a warning message? If they can show it on a diagnostic screen then they can check it and show a message. How many people are going to check this number without being told to do so?

I now have a green screen of death. "TiVo is attempting to fix a serious problem if box does not reboot in 3 hours call tivo support."


----------



## JoeKustra

SJJ said:


> The number is 43. If it is such a big problem why doesn't the box give you a warning message? If they can show it on a diagnostic screen then they can check it and show a message. How many people are going to check this number without being told to do so?
> 
> I now have a green screen of death. "TiVo is attempting to fix a serious problem if box does not reboot in 3 hours call tivo support."


43 means your signal is weaker than mine. If you have cable, does your TV have diagnostics that show SNR also? I think the TiVo person may be wrong. If you said it was 5 or 10 then I could see an issue, but 43 is not going to overload your tuner. I am getting my numbers from a Premiere since my Roamio comes Friday. My TV is also 36, but I don't have any dedicated test equipment to be sure.


----------



## SJJ

One number was 100+, the other number was 43. I thought the first was signal strength and the other number was SNR (signal noise ratio?). TiVo cs said the 43 was too high. I should have taken picture of screen, too late now.


----------



## JoeKustra

SJJ said:


> One number was 100+, the other number was 43. I thought the first was signal strength and the other number was SNR (signal noise ratio?). TiVo cs said the 43 was too high. I should have taken picture of screen, too late now.


The 100 could be over 100 as was posted earlier. That's not good. It's a percentage of _something_, but I don't know what.


----------



## nooneuknow

JoeKustra said:


> The 100 could be over 100 as was posted earlier. That's not good. It's a percentage of _something_, but I don't know what.


That would be this post, by me: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10324176#post10324176

I think that post sums it up pretty nicely. I had a great post on fully explaining it, in a way anybody should understand, but can't remember what thread it was in...


----------



## morac

I've never understood TiVo's "the signal is too hot" stance. That's just a pass the blame response. Unless you are plugging an electrical outlet into the coax port, the TiVo shouldn't be rebooting because of the input signal. If it is, that's a bug (and bugs like that have been fixed in the past). 

Most devices can handle upwards of +12 dB reliably and even then it would just cause picture breakup, not rebooting. 12 dB is 16 times as powerful as 0 dB and increases exponentially, so if you are getting above that something is wrong with your cable signals.

Personally my TiVo boxes have nearly always shown 100 and never had issues. Currently on my Roamio Pro, my SNR is 42 which is very good considering the signal is split 6 ways internally.


----------



## nooneuknow

morac said:


> I've never understood TiVo's "the signal is too hot" stance. That's just a pass the blame response. Unless you are plugging an electrical outlet into the coax port, the TiVo shouldn't be rebooting because of the input signal. If it is, that's a bug (and bugs like that have been fixed in the past).
> 
> Most devices can handle upwards of +12 dB reliably and even then it would just cause picture breakup, not rebooting. 12 dB is 16 times as powerful as 0 dB and increases exponentially, so if you are getting above that something is wrong with your cable signals.
> 
> Personally my TiVo boxes have nearly always shown 100 and never had issues. Currently on my Roamio Pro, my SNR is 42 which is very good considering the signal is split 6 ways internally.


The Plus and Pro both have internal amplification of the signal. So, a 100 strength and 42 SNR is typical (the reading is made on the amplified side), from what I read on here, with most reporting no problems (other than any call to TiVo about anything at all gets them told to attenuate).

The base Roamio isn't internally amplified (or is minimally amplified), and those same numbers can be, and have been, problematic for some, including myself. I can have a 42 SNR on nearly every channel, and not have issues, as long as the strength isn't pegged at 100%, on the three base Roamios I have. I can see a 42 SNR on a channels that read 72% strength.

I made a test call to TiVo CS, telling them I was having an issue with stability. They went straight to telling me to attenuate, right after all the other usual power-cycle script-monkey "support". I'd have to take my signal below 50%, just to get a SNR TiVo CS finds acceptable. By then, I'm lucky if any channels work. What a load of BS, on TiVo CS part...


----------



## morac

nooneuknow said:


> The Plus and Pro both have internal amplification of the signal. So, a 100 strength and 42 SNR is typical (the reading is made on the amplified side), from what I read on here, with most reporting no problems (other than any call to TiVo about anything at all gets them told to attenuate).


Amplifying that close to the sink should wreak havoc with the SNR as it's also amplifying the noise. That's why it's always recommended to put an amp prior to the first splitter coming in to the house, if needed. That must mean that the Roamio must be doing some kind of magic inside to keep the SNR up. My cable modem has 8 downstream channels and it's SNR is 38 currently with +5 dB power.


----------



## Jed1

Under normal circumstances the TiVo should only apply enough of amplification to achieve a gain of 0dBmV. I do believe with the Roamios you are getting a net gain of amplification of 12dBmV. This is to accommodate the possibility of using a 6 way split, if using MoCA, to cover the use of 6 minis on top of the 6 way split in the DVR. 

Normally you should be about 12 to 15dBmV hot at your demark box. So if you have a two way split for internet and video, you should be about 8 to 11 dBmV hot after the splitter. If you just have the TiVo and nothing else, you could end up way above 15dBmV at the tuner. 
Ideally a triple play cable system will be optimized to run at or slightly above 0dBmV when you have all three services. This will be one phone modem, one cable modem, and four TVs.
Right now my cable modem is reporting between 0 to 2 dBmV and a SNR of 36 to 38 dBmV, which is perfect. I have 4 video devices, 2 WMC and 2 Premiere 4 TiVos, and my TiVos are reporting a signal strength of 88 to 92% and 35 to 37 dBmV across the whole downstream spectrum.
In September, my node has been swept and optimized, and had a piece of the distribution cable replaced upstream of my house. I literally have a text book signal coming into my home.
I can confirm that the SNR that the TiVos are showing are correct, as that is what is showing on my cable companies meter and my cable modem's diagnostics screen. I can also confirm that a too hot signal is way worse than a weak signal.


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## nooneuknow

morac said:


> Amplifying that close to the sink should wreak havoc with the SNR as it's also amplifying the noise. That's why it's always recommended to put an amp prior to the first splitter coming in to the house, if needed. That must mean that the Roamio must be doing some kind of magic inside to keep the SNR up. My cable modem has 8 downstream channels and it's SNR is 38 currently with +5 dB power.


Since TiVo doesn't calculate SNR by industry standards, there's no way to know what "havoc" is being wreaked upon it... Otherwise, no disagreement here, or with the post before this one.


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## ad301

Update: After installing enough attenuation to get my SNR down to 35 on all tuners, with signal strengths of 85-90, I've had two more freezes in the last 24 hours. Pulling the plug is the only solution.

Maybe it's just coincidental that it started happening just after the 20.4.5 update, I don't know.

I've already done a kickstart 54 which it passed.

I'm waiting to hear back from TiVo CS to see what their next suggestion is.


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## nooneuknow

ad301 said:


> Update: After installing enough attenuation to get my SNR down to 35 on all tuners, with signal strengths of 85-90, I've had two more freezes in the last 24 hours. Pulling the plug is the only solution.
> 
> Maybe it's just coincidental that it started happening just after the 20.4.5 update, I don't know.
> 
> I've already done a kickstart 54 which it passed.
> 
> I'm waiting to hear back from TiVo CS to see what their next suggestion is.


I've seen a few reports of their next suggestion being that you killed your TiVo by connecting too "hot" of a signal, and that isn't covered under their warranty.

That's the worst case scenario, where they will offer you send you a refurb, for $199, and transfer your current service to the refurb TSN.


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## tarheelblue32

nooneuknow said:


> I've seen a few reports of their next suggestion being that you killed your TiVo by connecting too "hot" of a signal, and that isn't covered under their warranty.


I'm certainly no expert, but is that explanation even technically possible? It sounds like a bunch of BS to me.


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## nooneuknow

tarheelblue32 said:


> I'm certainly no expert, but is that explanation even technically possible? It sounds like a bunch of BS to me.


I've seen it claimed, and seen the griping over the cost, several times. I've even seen one member claim it on two TiVos.

Yes, TiVos lack enough protection to handle an extremely "hot" signal for extended periods of time. That's old news. But, some will still call BS, just because they have a hot signal, and whatever TiVo(s) they are feeding it to hasn't failed.

Is it right in my book? No. Can TiVo deny warranty service over it? Yes.


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## tarheelblue32

nooneuknow said:


> I've seen it claimed, and seen the griping over the cost, several times. I've even seen one member claim it on two TiVos.
> 
> Yes, TiVos lack enough protection to handle an extremely "hot" signal for extended periods of time. That's old news. But, some will still call BS, just because they have a hot signal, and whatever TiVo(s) they are feeding it to hasn't failed.
> 
> Is it right in my book? No. Can TiVo deny warranty service over it? Yes.


It still seems strange to me. I've never heard of any other device being permanently damaged in this manner. If the crappy cable company boxes and cheap HDTV tuners can handle it, I'm not sure why a TiVo can't. And I realize they operate on different frequencies, but the Plus/Pro have MoCA built in and that uses a much stronger signal than the cable company's signals.


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## nooneuknow

tarheelblue32 said:


> It still seems strange to me. I've never heard of any other device being permanently damaged in this manner. If the crappy cable company boxes and cheap HDTV tuners can handle it, I'm not sure why a TiVo can't. And I realize they operate on different frequencies, but the Plus/Pro have MoCA built in and that uses a much stronger signal than the cable company's signals.


It just is what it is. TiVo seems to get away with it. I've seen complaints about it on their social media outlets as well. I'd bet the ones that allegedly get fried, are really just ones that would have been borderline, and intermittently problematic, with some inevitably failing, regardless of signal strength, and TiVo just looks at the logs for hot signals, to get out of eating a warranty return for a defective tuner.


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## ad301

nooneuknow said:


> I've seen a few reports of their next suggestion being that you killed your TiVo by connecting too "hot" of a signal, and that isn't covered under their warranty.
> 
> That's the worst case scenario, where they will offer you send you a refurb, for $199, and transfer your current service to the refurb TSN.


I just called CS and they think it's just a case of a hardware failure of some sort. They are charging me $49 for a new replacement box. (Plus tying up a deposit until I send back the bad box.)

I've had many different TiVos going back to 2001, and this is the first hardware failure I've ever had, save for a couple of HDDs which I replaced myself. So I guess I can't complain too much.

Sorry for sidetracking this thread, I guess it was just a coincidence that my hardware went south at the same time as the new release. Let's hope so, anyway!


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## globalgreg

ad301 said:


> I just called CS and they think it's just a case of a hardware failure of some sort. They are charging me $49 for a new replacement box. (Plus tying up a deposit until I send back the bad box.)
> 
> I've had many different TiVos going back to 2001, and this is the first hardware failure I've ever had, save for a couple of HDDs which I replaced myself. So I guess I can't complain too much.
> 
> Sorry for sidetracking this thread, I guess it was just a coincidence that my hardware went south at the same time as the new release. Let's hope so, anyway!


Did you have a lifetime sub? If so are they transferring it for you?


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## mvalpreda

El Maestro said:


> This update sounds like a real blockbuster! Thanks a lot. Any idea when the iOS app will be iOS 8 optimized (or at least adjusted for the display on the iPhone 6/Plus)?


And when it won't complain about a jailbroken device?


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## ad301

globalgreg said:


> Did you have a lifetime sub? If so are they transferring it for you?


Yes and yes.


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## globalgreg

mvalpreda said:


> And when it won't complain about a jailbroken device?


That's killing me. The usual xcon or TSProtector don't work for the TiVo app on iOS 8 yet.


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## nooneuknow

ad301 said:


> I just called CS and they think it's just a case of a hardware failure of some sort. They are charging me $49 for a new replacement box. (Plus tying up a deposit until I send back the bad box.)


Ah, yes, I forgot that with the Roamio, it's been $49 for a new box, with transfer of PLS. I called it, on what they would do (except they didn't explicitly state you fried your tuner with a hot signal), but got the cost wrong.

Before the Roamio it was $199 and a refurb w/transfer of PLS, and that was only for some customers, within certain variables.

At some point, I'd bet they start sending Roamio refurbs, when they have more of them in stock, than they can sell in promo offers.

Good luck, and now back to our regularly scheduled programming...

*ETA:* It appears that they are now sending refurbs, as you confirmed 20 minutes after this post.


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## ad301

OK, it looks like the first rep I dealt with gave me bad information. I got an email saying that the replacement had shipped, but describes it as a refurb.

I called back and spoke to a second rep. I told him that I had specifically asked the first rep if I'd be getting a new box or a refurb, and he had told me that it would be a new box.

According to the second guy, the first one must have been misinformed.


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## lpwcomp

OTOH, I once had them replace a non-lifetimed Premiere that had been fried by a lightning strike, including providing a pre-paid ship back label. My cost was $0. Well, I did have to pay the UPS store for packing it up since I no longer had the original boxes.


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## dianebrat

ad301 said:


> OK, it looks like the first rep I dealt with gave me bad information. I got an email saying that the replacement had shipped, but describes it as a refurb.
> 
> I called back and spoke to a second rep. I told him that I had specifically asked the first rep if I'd be getting a new box or a refurb, and he had told me that it would be a new box.
> 
> According to the second guy, the first one must have been misinformed.


Refurbs for warranty replacement are SOP in almost every electronics product line, not sure why folks expect Tivo to be different.


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## morac

I got hit by the "unresponsive" bug again tonight. Remote stopped working, TiVo app only worked in away mode (away streaming worked) and other boxes saw my Roamio Pro as a S3. Core functionality kept working, but there was no way to interact with the box. This is the second time since getting 20.4.5 that this happened.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=522566


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## wwsmith

lpwcomp said:


> Anyone else seeing the following problem:
> 
> Both of my Roamios, which have been updated, lose the grouping setting for SD (i.e. for Series 3 or earlier or pyTivo shares) playlists if I go TiVo Central. I select one from "My Shows", groups are off, enter "2" to turn them on. As long as I don't go to TiVo Central, it stays set. If I do go to TiVo Central, the next time I select one, groups are off again.
> 
> It is not happening on my Premiere which is still running 20.4.4a


I am seeing this problem as well. Since I have a lot of videos in my pyTivo shares, it times out with groups off and I have to go out an in a second time and then enter "2". Very annoying problem. Good to know I'm not alone, though.


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## nooneuknow

morac said:


> I got hit by the "unresponsive" bug again tonight. Remote stopped working, TiVo app only worked in away mode (away streaming worked) and other boxes saw my Roamio Pro as a S3. Core functionality kept working, but there was no way to interact with the box. This is the second time since getting 20.4.5 that this happened.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=522566


Also posted in the above thread:


nooneuknow said:


> Just a suggestion, that has worked for me, on many forms of TiVo lockups:
> 
> Disconnect the coax feeding the CATV (or OTA) signal (for just a few seconds), then reconnect it, if the TiVo starts responding again. Do this right at the back of the TiVo (or the other end of that cable, if that is easier for you).
> 
> A long while back (and just the other day) I was about to pull all the connections, but started with the coax, and in a couple seconds, the box came back to life. I've found this seems to be a common quick fix for units in any state that results in the remote control being ignored, on TiVo HDs, Premieres, and now my Roamio basics.
> 
> Unless you used a wrench to tighten the coax feed (I do), and don't have a wrench right there to loosen it, it can be a real time saver, and the worst that can happen is a recording in progress loses a chunk, for the matter of seconds it takes to reconnect the coax (as opposed to the time it takes for the TiVo, cablecard, and Tuning Adapter to boot and sync).


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## nooneuknow

dianebrat said:


> Refurbs for warranty replacement are SOP in almost every electronics product line, not sure why folks expect Tivo to be different.


I don't see complaining (or even pre-existing expectations). Simply posting about one's experience, and that differing info was given by two TiVo reps, is just normal discussion.

If there would be anything to complain about, it would be incurring a cost, if still in warranty, or the amount of the cost. Nowhere in the TOS/UA/warranty terms does it state anybody is entitled to a new TiVo, should an existing one fail. Many were just getting new ones (of Roamios), up until now, when told they were getting (or just were expecting) a refurb.


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## rainwater

morac said:


> I got hit by the "unresponsive" bug again tonight. Remote stopped working, TiVo app only worked in away mode (away streaming worked) and other boxes saw my Roamio Pro as a S3. Core functionality kept working, but there was no way to interact with the box. This is the second time since getting 20.4.5 that this happened.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=522566


I've seen this as well. A pretty big showstopper to make it through testing. I haven't found a way to get it to return to allowing remote input.


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## tatergator1

Just found another small change to the software yesterday. For all those on systems using Tuning Adapters, you'll know the joy of the random TA lockup resulting in missed recordings on SDV channels requiring a manual reboot of the TA to get SDV back.

This update includes additional polling of the TA and if the TA stops responding, a SD menu screen will pop up telling you the TA is unresponsive.


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## globalgreg

mvalpreda said:


> And when it won't complain about a jailbroken device?


V40 Beta 1 of xCon was released and works with TiVo on my jailbroken 8.1.1 iPhone 6.


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## Philmatic

globalgreg said:


> V40 Beta 1 of xCon was released and works with TiVo on my jailbroken 8.1.1 iPhone 6.


Oh! Happy days are here again!!!



Confirmed that this is working, you need to install v38 through Cydia first, then install this .deb (Through iFile or the terminal, what have you)

http://goo.gl/qMJGv9


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## David Platt

Dammit. Not working on 8.1.2. Looks like a downgrade to 8.1.1 is in the cards while they're still signing it.


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## globalgreg

David Platt said:


> Dammit. Not working on 8.1.2. Looks like a downgrade to 8.1.1 is in the cards while they're still signing it.


I found xCon to be very picky...I had to do a full reboot...make sure that you don't have any other jailbreak detection software installed like tsprotector...I had to end task on the tivo app also. After all that it was working...I'm on 8.1.1 though so it may be an 8.1.2 problem.


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## David Platt

I got it working sporadically under 6.1.1 on my iPad Air, but found it so unstable I immediately installed it. It would sometimes play a show; sometimes give me the 'unauthorized modifications' message. Considering I was living with an un-jailbroken device until today, I didn't feel like messing with the hassle. I'm good with stock for now.


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## Philmatic

globalgreg said:


> I found xCon to be very picky...I had to do a full reboot...make sure that you don't have any other jailbreak detection software installed like tsprotector...I had to end task on the tivo app also. After all that it was working...I'm on 8.1.1 though so it may be an 8.1.2 problem.


Yeah, I had to install the Cydia version of xCon, reboot, then install the new beta and reboot again. It's working fine though, 8.1.1.


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## JWhites

so any word on the next software update?


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## ej42137

JWhites said:


> so any word on the next software update?


It will be here sooner or later. TiVo Margret may post a notice which may identify at least some of the changes. There may be a few problems with it. Many people that get it will experience problems that have nothing to do with the update; in fact, people will report problems with the update even though they have not gotten the update.


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## BigJimOutlaw

JWhites said:


> so any word on the next software update?


March. Not much intel other than mpeg4 support for Stream, and Amazon/Vudu for the Premiere line are a possibility.


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## tarheelblue32

JWhites said:


> I find it weird that on the Mini when attached to a Premiere host it gives me the option to use Amazon Prime and VUDU but not on the Premiere itself. I get the feeling that it's already on the Premiere but it has not been enabled to be visible yet.


Possibly, but not necessarily. Unlike live TV and recordings, the Mini streaming apps work independently from the host DVR.


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## wombat94

JWhites said:


> I find it weird that on the Mini when attached to a Premiere host it gives me the option to use Amazon Prime and VUDU but not on the Premiere itself. I get the feeling that it's already on the Premiere but it has not been enabled to be visible yet.


JWhites,

the reason for this is that the Mini only depends on the Premiere/Roamio for recorded tv/live TV streaming.

For the Over The Top (OTT) apps like Netflix, Amazon, Vudu, etc the Mini is its own client (that is why the Mini needs to be added/authorized for your Amazon/Netflix accounts separately from the Premiere or Roamio).

Basically, the Mini runs almost exactly the same hardware as the Roamio - so it got the update with Amazon/Vudu... the Premiere is a different processor and Tivo hasn't yet done a software release to enable these apps on the older hardware - here's hoping the next update will include those features.


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## JWhites

tarheelblue32 said:


> Possibly, but not necessarily. Unlike live TV and recordings, the Mini streaming apps work independently from the host DVR.


I know the streaming apps work independently from the host DVR. I am just saying that there's no way of independently showing or hiding the streaming apps through the Mini, so generally the Mini just shows whatever streaming apps are selected to show on the host it's attached to at the time, like how I can hide all of the streaming apps on the Romeo and then no streaming apps appear on the Mini, but when I attach the Mini to the Premiere VUDU and Amazon Prime will appear even though there's no option for it under Video Providers on the Premiere, which leads me to think that those streaming apps there on the Premiere but just not accessible/enabled yet until a future update. Others have noticed this as well on the Mini thread.


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## JWhites

BigJimOutlaw said:


> March. Not much intel other than mpeg4 support for Stream, and Amazon/Vudu for the Premiere line are a possibility.


Everyone is really looking forward to the MPEG-4 support, both for watching and recording MPEG-4 channels and for watching MPEG-4 downloaded videos. It's already gonna be a huge hit with Cox and Comcast and Verizon FiOS subscribers, and as more providers move to MPEG-4 it will be even more so, possibly even indispensable.


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## HarperVision

wombat94 said:


> JWhites, the reason for this is that the Mini only depends on the Premiere/Roamio for recorded tv/live TV streaming. ............


And guide data, which is why it's bogus that they've charged for separate TiVo fees for it and probably why they're testing included lifetime service now, at least until Jan 6.


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## tarheelblue32

HarperVision said:


> And guide data, which is why it's bogus that they've charged for separate TiVo fees for it and probably why they're testing included lifetime service now, at least until Jan 6.


The Mini connects directly to the TiVo servers to get its guide data, and stores the guide data independently from the host DVR.


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## HarperVision

tarheelblue32 said:


> The Mini connects directly to the TiVo servers to get its guide data, and stores the guide data independently from the host DVR.


Nope, I just proved it with a custom channel using my ZeeVee QAM Encoder/Modulator outputting on cable channel 135.1 going into my host Roamio. If it didn't leech off of the host it would have NO WAY of knowing that channel existed.


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## HarperVision

And yes, I have BOTH cable and OTA running concurrently on my base Roamio doing this.


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## tarheelblue32

HarperVision said:


> Nope, I just proved it with a custom channel using my ZeeVee QAM Encoder/Modulator outputting on cable channel 135.1 going into my host Roamio. If it didn't leech off of the host it would have NO WAY of knowing that channel existed.


That proves the Mini gets its channel list from the host DVR, that doesn't prove that the Mini doesn't get its own guide data independently.


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## HarperVision

tarheelblue32 said:


> That proves the Mini gets its channel list from the host DVR, that doesn't prove that the Mini doesn't get its own guide data independently.


Good point, but are they not linked? I made a custom name for the info on the modulator and that same name appears in the mini guide.


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## XIBM

Where would the Mini store guide data as it has no disk?


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## mjcxp

XIBM said:


> Where would the Mini store guide data as it has no disk?


The Mini does have some storage... I believe it has 2GB of flash memory and 256MB of RAM.


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## HarperVision

For some reason I just find it hard to believe they bother making the mini collect it's own guide data when it HAS TO BE connected to a host TiVo to function properly. Why go through the hassle when all it has to do is query the host??? My modulator setup makes me think this even more.

I think an easy test would be to disassociate it from the host but leave everything else connected and then wait until the guide data runs out in about 12 days and THEN see what guide info it gives you. I think this is also how they can easily give the lifetime service away now cuz they don't pay tribune for it as a stand alone box accessing the guide since it's a parasite of the host. (Yes, this is all just a WAG from me).


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## tarheelblue32

HarperVision said:


> I think an easy test would be to disassociate it from the host but leave everything else connected and then wait until the guide data runs out in about 12 days and THEN see what guide info it gives you.


You wouldn't even have to wait the full 12 days to do a test. All you would have to do is go out as far as the guide data goes and check to see where it ends, then disconnect it from the host for a day or two, and then check to see if the guide data keeps getting extended out further. If it does, then the Mini has to be getting its guide data from somewhere other than the host.


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## berkshires

How can a mini be disassociated or disconnected from it's host?


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## tarheelblue32

berkshires said:


> How can a mini be disassociated or disconnected from it's host?


Mine has actually done it at random a couple of times, and I have had to go into the settings to reconnect it to the host DVR.


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## zundian

Does anyone know approximately how large the quarterly updates are? If the mini only has 2GB of storage space they can't be *that* big, which means that TiVo's coders are pretty efficient.


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## morac

zundian said:


> Does anyone know approximately how large the quarterly updates are? If the mini only has 2GB of storage space they can't be *that* big, which means that TiVo's coders are pretty efficient.


You mean the software updates? Last time I measured one via my router traffic, it was around 100 MB. Not sure if that's compressed or not.


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