# Tivo PremierXL disappointment



## upatel (Jun 4, 2010)

So it has been 28 days since I upgraded from the series 2 to the new PremierXL and I am sad to say I am returning the system. Tivo in my opinion has lost its edge and has delivered a buggy product to the market with shoddy customer service. 
I have had been experiencing the well-documented freeze of the new HD Tivo Central, and after many chat sessions as well as many many reboots of the system, I am thoroughly unimpressed and frustrated.

I have spent over 30 minutes now trying to get someone to help me return this system, and still no luck!! I did manage to speak to one person live - Joe - however he could not transfer me to their returns department ! Is it just me, or are these guys just losing it ? 

I will return to my Verizon DVR which costs $12/month but has no issues. My only drawback with Verizon is no ability to attach an external drive.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Sorry to hear about your issues, but even with the Premiere issues some people have, it's still miles ahead of any of the FiOS DVRs I've seen. Plus no missed recordings like everyone around me with the FiOS DVR are always complaining about.


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## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

Tivo should pull a microsoft, and go back to Series 3 design, in the interim, really. Series 3 meaning LED outside, and M card compatibility.


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## rocko (Oct 29, 2002)

I imagine the OP has tried the SD menus. While not as glitzy, they have been reported as stable.

Just a thought ... hope things work out whatever you end up doing.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

upatel said:


> So it has been 28 days since I upgraded from the series 2 to the new PremierXL and I am sad to say I am returning the system. Tivo in my opinion has lost its edge and has delivered a buggy product to the market with shoddy customer service.
> I have had been experiencing the well-documented freeze of the new HD Tivo Central, and after many chat sessions as well as many many reboots of the system, I am thoroughly unimpressed and frustrated.
> 
> I have spent over 30 minutes now trying to get someone to help me return this system, and still no luck!! I did manage to speak to one person live - Joe - however he could not transfer me to their returns department ! Is it just me, or are these guys just losing it ?
> ...


Just get a Series 3 TiVo-HDXL and you will have almost all you can get from the TPXL, especially if your main objective is to time shift HDTV programs and skip commercials. You will have no re-boots and a stable platform. For most people the PremierXL is not needed over the TiVo-HDXL. Someday the PremierXL may be as stable and provide you with other useful things that the TiVo-HDXL can't ever do, but too many people have problems now. Graphical HD displays take a lot of power to be fast, most computer display boards that give you fast HD Graphics can cost the same or more than a TiVo itself, so I don't know how fast the HD display may finally get on the Premier after both cores are enabled and the software is fully optimized.


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## ltxi (Feb 14, 2010)

I actually only have a PXL because of the stability/failure issues I was experiencing with the late production HDXLs. I like it and it's been rock solid....on SD menus. Don't need or want the HD menus, just a high def TiVo dvr that works. But then, I'm also hanging on to XP until they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

lessd said:


> . Graphical HD displays take a lot of power to be fast,


Why?

We're talking about an user interface where the primary function is to display a simple menu. There's no reason why it shouldn't be fast regardless of the resolution of the display. It's mostly static data. It can be updated at a few frames per second. The exception is a real-time (PIP) view of the tuner, and even that is only a small portion of the display.

It's not like Tivo is doing something that's never been done here.

I just can't agree with people blaming these continuing problems on the hardware or software complexity of the problem. Moving to a flash-based design was a bad design decision. Releasing an incomplete product was a bad marketing decision.


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 28, 2002)

upatel said:


> So it has been 28 days since I upgraded from the series 2 to the new PremierXL and I am sad to say I am returning the system. Tivo in my opinion has lost its edge and has delivered a buggy product to the market with shoddy customer service.
> I have had been experiencing the well-documented freeze of the new HD Tivo Central, and after many chat sessions as well as many many reboots of the system, I am thoroughly unimpressed and frustrated.
> 
> I have spent over 30 minutes now trying to get someone to help me return this system, and still no luck!! I did manage to speak to one person live - Joe - however he could not transfer me to their returns department ! Is it just me, or are these guys just losing it ?
> ...


This seems kind of silly.

Yes, the HD interface (partial) implementation is an unmitigated disaster, but the SD is solid now, is much faster than the S2 and S3 SD interface, and the MRV transfers put the Series 2 and 3 to SHAME. Just leave it in SD mode until TiVo gets its act together on the HD side in a year or so. In SD mode, it's easily the best DVR choice out there, bar none.


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## Airkat (Jun 29, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> Sorry to hear about your issues, but even with the Premiere issues some people have, it's still miles ahead of any of the FiOS DVRs I've seen. Plus no missed recordings like everyone around me with the FiOS DVR are always complaining about.


I hope Tivo pays you well.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Airkat said:


> I hope Tivo pays you well.


It sure does by not missing recordings like other DvRs. My brother was complaining last week about his comcast DVr and how it did not record teh final episode of Lost(It got the 2 hour pre show but failed to record the finale). So I was easily able to give him an Hd version of the broadcast. You can't do that with other DVRs.

People I know with Comcast and FiOS DVRs miss more recordings every several months than I have in the last nine years of using TiVos. TiVo is easily the best DVR out there. It's the best at it's core functionality, which is recording TV content and it does it extremely well.

TiVo has no need to pay me. They have an excellent product. if I thought it was a bad product I would have returned my Premeires during the 30 day window. But I have not had issues with my seven Premeires. They work very well and the best thing is they will get even better as they update and improve the software.


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## dewd2 (Feb 22, 2010)

The Central freeze issues were fixed more than 28 days ago, I believe. If you are still having the problems, something else is going on. Did you get all the updates? 

I would never go back to the crappy Verizon DVR and the even more crappy guide data. I rather enjoy recording shows at the correct time.


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 28, 2002)

dewd2 said:


> The Central freeze issues were fixed more than 28 days ago, I believe. If you are still having the problems, something else is going on. Did you get all the updates?
> 
> I would never go back to the crappy Verizon DVR and the even more crappy guide data. I rather enjoy recording shows at the correct time.


We were still getting random freezes, even on 14.4. I wouldn't recommend the HD interface Premiere to ANYONE at the moment, but I have no problem recommending the SD interface Premiere now.


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## vstone (May 11, 2002)

Just yesterday I got a random freeze on my S3.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

vstone said:


> Just yesterday I got a random freeze on my S3.


Did you mean your *S4*


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

Ive still had an occasional freeze with 14.4.. usually involving streaming media. Not bad enough to stop using the box but the device definitely isnt bug free.


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## texasPI (May 9, 2010)

upatel said:


> So it has been 28 days since I upgraded from the series 2 to the new PremierXL and I am sad to say I am returning the system. Tivo in my opinion has lost its edge and has delivered a buggy product to the market with shoddy customer service.
> I have had been experiencing the well-documented freeze of the new HD Tivo Central, and after many chat sessions as well as many many reboots of the system, I am thoroughly unimpressed and frustrated.
> 
> I have spent over 30 minutes now trying to get someone to help me return this system, and still no luck!! I did manage to speak to one person live - Joe - however he could not transfer me to their returns department ! Is it just me, or are these guys just losing it ?
> ...


I recently canceled Tivo service and returned an HDXL and the call took less than 10 minutes before I had an RMA number.


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## SalP (May 31, 2010)

Is the rebooting connected to the Menus? I'm on 14.4 and I switched to SD after the last spontaneous reboot, about 6 days ago. So far, no reboots. The last time I had a spontaneous reboot I was watching an HD movie I'd recorded and at the same time recording two HD programs.


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## ski9600 (Mar 17, 2005)

rocko said:


> I imagine the OP has tried the SD menus. While not as glitzy, they have been reported as stable.
> 
> Just a thought ... hope things work out whatever you end up doing.


Hmmm, maybe I should try this again. I went to SD menus once, and still was having problems. However, this machine is miles ahead of the one that I can rent from the cable company.

My issues are that the audio and video get corrupted after a while. I was recording a race today and then went back to the start to begin watching. The whole thing is pretty much un-watchable due to video pixels appearing when the audio is messed up (scratchy).

Otherwise, I'm very satisfied. I tried a Motorola machine from my cable company and it just worked like a VCR. The Tivo software adds so much to make it better by recording things that it thinks I might like. Also, the Tivo remote works 10 times better and I don't have to click every button twice or three times to make it work. And the Tivo remote is way more user friendly. I can find the buttons that I want in the dark instead of having the crap Motorola remote where you have to read the label on each button to make sure you click the correct one twice and point it in the right direction to make it work. Sometimes the Tivo remote works when it's pointed in the wrong direction!

Anyway, I'm having a hard time deciding whether the problem with the audio/video getting corrupted is caused by poor signal (cable companies problem, my building was built 32 years ago and half-arsed and the signal wasn't designed to provide 120 channels, high speed internet at the same time).


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## rocko (Oct 29, 2002)

ski9600 said:


> Hmmm, maybe I should try this again. I went to SD menus once, and still was having problems. However, this machine is miles ahead of the one that I can rent from the cable company.
> 
> My issues are that the audio and video get corrupted after a while. I was recording a race today and then went back to the start to begin watching. The whole thing is pretty much un-watchable due to video pixels appearing when the audio is messed up (scratchy).
> 
> ...


When you get the pixelization it's usually either a source (cable co) problem or bad connections/wiring. I would call the cable guys and have them check it out - replace anything that needs replacing.

You can check out DVR Diagnostics to check RS Corrected/Uncorrected counts - see if the problems are channel specific ...

Or you could try their equipment and see if that fixes anthing ...


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## wp746911 (Feb 19, 2005)

well the tivo is 700 light years ahead of the local comcast boxes (the ones I've used in houston/dallas). But other boxes are catching up-uverse and satellite (can't remember which one- dish or directc) have pretty good boxes. tivo is still the best but it needs to get better.


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## MrFlibble1 (May 23, 2010)

Mr. Flibble loves his Tivos and has been a Tivo customer since 2001.

The Tivo premiere so far (in Mr. Flibble's humble opinion) IS a huge disappointment. It is completely unusable with the HD menus. As soon as the Tivo Premiere gets to close to 100% full, the HD menus slow down to the point of taking up to 5 minutes to do anything. When the Tivo is not so full the menu navigation speed is tolerable.

There are no such issues (that Mr. Flibble has found so far) with the SD menus, but if you switch to the SD menus, you've now essentially got the same functionality as the cheaper Tivo HD (Series 3) models. (Can't search Netflix, for example.)

So Mr. Flibble thought he was buying the latest and greatest Tivo model, but just ended up with a Tivo HD clone AND paid a premium for it.

Nice job, Tivo.

Mr. Flibble is very cross about this!


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

MrFlibble1 said:


> Mr. Flibble loves his Tivos and has been a Tivo customer since 2001.
> 
> The Tivo premiere so far (in Mr. Flibble's humble opinion) IS a huge disappointment. It is completely unusable with the HD menus. As soon as the Tivo Premiere gets to close to 100% full, the HD menus slow down to the point of taking up to 5 minutes to do anything. When the Tivo is not so full the menu navigation speed is tolerable.
> 
> ...


Added to ignore list until Mr. Flibble takes his medications...


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## ltxi (Feb 14, 2010)

Yes, of course....there's no place for humor here....it should be banned.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

3rd person crap is not funny and worth ignoring.


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## rocko (Oct 29, 2002)

ltxi said:


> Yes, of course....there's no place for humor here....it should be banned.


Agreed. Let's do so as soon as some humor makes itself apparent.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

ltxi said:


> Yes, of course....there's no place for humor here....it should be banned.


I guess you didn't find *my* response humorous?


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## rrr22777 (Jul 31, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> Sorry to hear about your issues, but even with the Premiere issues some people have, it's still miles ahead of any of the FiOS DVRs I've seen. Plus no missed recordings like everyone around me with the FiOS DVR are always complaining about.


Missed recordings was a part of life with my DirectTV HD DVR that I had until recently. Finally took the PXL plunge and have a DVR which records what I tell it to! Image that.


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## MrFlibble1 (May 23, 2010)

ltxi said:


> Yes, of course....there's no place for humor here....it should be banned.


Glad someone gets it... one has to laugh about some of this stuff, really.
(Yay for obscure SciFi references.)

The point still stands, however. This thing is a dog, at present.


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## Enko (Jun 9, 2010)

The Verizon DVR I have never misses any recordings.

It's kind of sad that I paid this much for the Premiere XL and I'd rather use my Verizon DVR due to the lockups and the menu sluggishness of the Tivo.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

Enko said:


> The Verizon DVR I have never misses any recordings.
> 
> It's kind of sad that I paid this much for the Premiere XL and I'd rather use my Verizon DVR due to the lockups and the menu sluggishness of the Tivo.


eBay. Put yourself out of misery.


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## Enko (Jun 9, 2010)

orangeboy said:


> eBay. Put yourself out of misery.


unfortunately after hearing good things about tivo from my sister (not even sure what model she has), I paid for a lifetime subscription.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

Enko said:


> unfortunately after hearing good things about tivo from my sister (not even sure what model she has), I paid for a lifetime subscription.


That's even better. PLS TiVo's get a LOT more on eBay than other subscriptions.


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## dewd2 (Feb 22, 2010)

Enko said:


> The Verizon DVR I have never misses any recordings.
> 
> It's kind of sad that I paid this much for the Premiere XL and I'd rather use my Verizon DVR due to the lockups and the menu sluggishness of the Tivo.


And you don't mind your guide data being wrong every week?

I agree... Everyone sell the damned things and quit whining. Buy something that works (good luck with that, btw).


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## AnotherBostonGuy (May 6, 2010)

I think if they just renamed the product to TiVo Series 4, I could live with my unit's issues.

Until then, I just get disappointed every time I use the unit.

*sigh*


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## Enko (Jun 9, 2010)

dewd2 said:


> And you don't mind your guide data being wrong every week?
> 
> I agree... Everyone sell the damned things and quit whining. Buy something that works (good luck with that, btw).


hmm the Fios guide data hasn't been wrong for me yet. only thing that the tivo is beating out the verizon dvr right now is on recording time.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Enko said:


> hmm the Fios guide data hasn't been wrong for me yet. only thing that the tivo is beating out the verizon dvr right now is on recording time.


My neighbors complaing regularly about missing programs and the guide not showing correct info with their FiOS DVRs. I keep telling them to get TiVos, but they won't listen. And instead complain all the time about the problems and how much they have to pay every month for the FiOS DVRs.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

Videodrome said:


> Tivo should pull a microsoft, and go back to Series 3 design, in the interim, really. Series 3 meaning LED outside, and M card compatibility.


Here, here. Sounds good to me.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

curiousgeorge said:


> This seems kind of silly.
> 
> Yes, the HD interface (partial) implementation is an unmitigated disaster, but the SD is solid now, is much faster than the S2 and S3 SD interface, and the MRV transfers put the Series 2 and 3 to SHAME. Just leave it in SD mode until TiVo gets its act together on the HD side in a year or so. In SD mode, it's easily the best DVR choice out there, bar none.


Moxi HD? Just sayin'. Better MRV solution; better external drive solution; 3 tuners (digital); less issues with stability according to my research; interface? It may take a bit getting used to, and there is a grid option, but As you stated in your defense of TiVo, not all that important, but Moxi is a stable, Emmy Award winning all HD interface. After counting a few things the TiVo might organize a bit better and OTA capability, it is still the Moxi, today, that comes out as _"easily the best DVR choice out there, bar none" as you stated._ At least for Cable and FiOS, that is. As much as I love my S3, Dish DVR's are still superior to any TiVo's or any other DVR's out there even with Dish's less pretty interface.

Sorry, but TiVo is losing its luster. We aren't flaming TiVo's. It is just that the TiVo has set the bar pretty high for DVR's, and now it can't even meet its own history for innovation. People are disappointed with the Premier precisely _because we *love*_ our Series 2 and 3 TiVo's and expect more of the Series 4 Premiere, and that is perfectly reasonable.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Agreed about the MRV - Tivo may be faster but copy protection ruins it for many. Tivo needs streaming MRV for the Premieres, and they need to do it as soon as they get the HD UI issues fixed.

But sometimes I wonder if some deal with the content industry is keeping this under wraps...


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## Airkat (Jun 29, 2005)

dewd2 said:


> I agree... Everyone sell the damned things and quit whining. Buy something that works (good luck with that, btw).


Your stance is that Tivo sucks but other stuff sucks more?


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## dewd2 (Feb 22, 2010)

Airkat said:


> Your stance is that Tivo sucks but other stuff sucks more?


No, my stance is there will be issues with other stuff, too. You just don't know about it because you haven't invested as much time in the other stuff (until you own it). You know, the grass is always greener...

I've seen this countless times. I'm on boards that everyone is *****ing about their brand x phone, saying they are going to brand y. Of course the folks with brand y are *****ing that they are moving to brand z. It never ends.

My Premiers do what I ask them to do. They record every show, on time, and without errors. I can watch my shows in any room. I can download podcasts, watch Netflix Movies, and it even offers suggestions of what I may like.

I really don't care what others are like compared to TiVo. TiVo does what I ask it and that's all I care about.


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## rrr22777 (Jul 31, 2002)

dewd2 said:


> No, my stance is there will be issues with other stuff, too. You just don't know about it because you haven't invested as much time in the other stuff (until you own it). You know, the grass is always greener...
> 
> I've seen this countless times. I'm on boards that everyone is *****ing about their brand x phone, saying they are going to brand y. Of course the folks with brand y are *****ing that they are moving to brand z. It never ends.
> 
> ...


Well said. And as evident by the relative silence from the OP he/she has no intentions of any feedback on any of the replies.


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## donnoh (Mar 7, 2008)

dewd2 said:


> No, my stance is there will be issues with other stuff, too. You just don't know about it because you haven't invested as much time in the other stuff (until you own it). You know, the grass is always greener...
> 
> I've seen this countless times. I'm on boards that everyone is *****ing about their brand x phone, saying they are going to brand y. Of course the folks with brand y are *****ing that they are moving to brand z. It never ends.
> 
> ...


You're lucky. My HDs are reliable although slow, my Premiere is not reliable although slow.


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## sbq (Feb 6, 2010)

SalP said:


> Is the rebooting connected to the Menus? I'm on 14.4 and I switched to SD after the last spontaneous reboot, about 6 days ago. So far, no reboots. The last time I had a spontaneous reboot I was watching an HD movie I'd recorded and at the same time recording two HD programs.


I'm using SD menu's and I haven't seen any problems at all, no freezes or reboots. I tried the HD menu's when 14.4 came out but I didn't see any speed increase at all, so I went back to SD menu's after a week. During the week I was running on HD menu's in 14.4 I did *not* have any freezes or reboots.


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## DaveWhittle (Jul 25, 2002)

I'm not having any issues either. Granted, I wish the HD interface was faster, smoother, and/or "peppier"... but for the most part my TiVo Premiere is running as it should.


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## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

I'm pretty Happy with my TIVO Premiere! I was using Comcast DVR with SARA guide.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

Series3Sub said:


> Moxi HD? Just sayin'. Better MRV solution; better external drive solution; 3 tuners (digital); less issues with stability according to my research; interface?.


Moxi has a better multiroom solution. It has a better external drive solution as well as an easy internal drive upgrade to 2TB HD

Pop in a new 2TB harddrive and download and install the sofware over the internet


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> Sorry to hear about your issues, but even with the Premiere issues some people have, it's still miles ahead of any of the FiOS DVRs I've seen. Plus no missed recordings like everyone around me with the FiOS DVR are always complaining about.


The latest FIOS software updates have been quite good. They have become quite stable and they are even ahead of TiVo when it comes to widgets.


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## Monty2_2001 (Aug 6, 2005)

I've worked for a small electronics firm, and believe me. The tech support is a bunch of nobody's to them. Whatsoever. The developers are a priest caste, and there is very little communication between the 2. Smaller companies than Tivo, they do work this way. AWFUL performance and that's that.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

rainwater said:


> The latest FIOS software updates have been quite good. They have become quite stable and they are even ahead of TiVo when it comes to widgets.


Widgets are one thing I do not use on a Set Top Box. I use them on all my PCs though.


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