# Swap two Premiere XL4s for one Roamio Pro



## PatrickNSF (Dec 16, 2012)

We have two Premiere XL4s with Lifetime feeding 5 TVs through a component matrix switch. The switch (and IR repeaters) behave wonky from time to time. 

I've been considering switching to one Roamio Pro with Lifetime, directly hooked up to the main TV, paired with 4 minis. I would assume I'd see some improvement in audio and video quality, as all TVs are only receiving component signals now.

Am I missing any downsides to consolidating the two Premieres to one Roamio Pro (other than the loss of two tuners)?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

You'd be losing 2 tuners. Otherwise I think the setup would be better because all 5 Minis and the Roamio could be watching different things at the same time. Whereas you're currently limited to two different locations at a time due to using the main TiVo's output. 

I use to have the same setup as you. The Roamio/Mini setup is MUCH simpler and easier to manage.


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## PatrickNSF (Dec 16, 2012)

Thanks, Dan. I'm likely making the switch, as the market for Premieres with Lifetime seems pretty good.

And if we ever get to the point where we think we need more than 6 tuners at once, I think we've got problems a Tivo won't solve ;-)


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

You could also keep the two XL4s and run Mini's off of them. My XL4 handles 3 Mini's with aplomb... Just another option.


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## PatrickNSF (Dec 16, 2012)

I've been under the impression that each mini needs to be paired with only one main Tivo. I thought it would simpler for the family having them all paired to the same Tivo, instead of multiple XL4s. But maybe I'm missing something?


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

PatrickNSF said:


> I've been under the impression that each mini needs to be paired with only one main Tivo. I thought it would simpler for the family having them all paired to the same Tivo, instead of multiple XL4s. But maybe I'm missing something?


Whether or not it would be simpler depends on how your family members watch TV. If only certain TVs are watched by certain people, then it could be easier to keep recordings for certain family members segregated on one of the Premiers or the other.

Since you already have the 2 Premieres, why don't you start by just buying 3 Minis and try using them with the 2 Premieres you already have to see how it goes. Then after a while if you decide you'd rather get a Roamio, you can then buy it (and another Mini) and sell the 2 Premieres.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

PatrickNSF said:


> I've been under the impression that each mini needs to be paired with only one main Tivo. I thought it would simpler for the family having them all paired to the same Tivo, instead of multiple XL4s. But maybe I'm missing something?


The Mini is reflection of the host TiVo so just like the host TiVo it will list all other TiVos on your network at the bottom of My Shows which you can then select and play any recording from that TiVo as well.

However you can only schedule recordings and manage SPs for the host TiVo, so it can be a bit confusing there.


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## PatrickNSF (Dec 16, 2012)

Thanks for the follow-up. I'm going to buy a couple of minis first and see how they work for us with the Premieres. If I can catch a good deal on a Roamio Pro I'll bite the bullet and make the switch. It looks like I have until Jan 6 to take advantage of the current promotions.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Whether or not it would be simpler depends on how your family members watch TV. If only certain TVs are watched by certain people, then it could be easier to keep recordings for certain family members segregated on one of the Premiers or the other.
> 
> Since you already have the 2 Premieres, why don't you start by just buying 3 Minis and try using them with the 2 Premieres you already have to see how it goes. Then after a while if you decide you'd rather get a Roamio, you can then buy it (and another Mini) and sell the 2 Premieres.


Correct. The OP could also have all 3 Minis on one XL4, and one XL4 somewhere else with no Minis. The system scales pretty well.


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## PatrickNSF (Dec 16, 2012)

Bigg said:


> Correct. The OP could also have all 3 Minis on one XL4, and one XL4 somewhere else with no Minis. The system scales pretty well.


Thanks. I'm picking up a mini today at Best Buy to experiment before committing to an overhaul.

But your comment has me thinking that I may be best off keeping both XL4s instead of consolidating to one Roamio Pro. I'd keep "my" XL4 on the main TV (where I normally watch) and have the minis paired with the other XL4 for the rest of the family. If I need to watch TV from other than the main TV, I'll still be able to access my recorded shows. But it may be nice to keep my recordings separate from the rest of the family so they don't mess everything up ;-)


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

PatrickNSF said:


> But your comment has me thinking that I may be best off keeping both XL4s instead of consolidating to one Roamio Pro. I'd keep "my" XL4 on the main TV (where I normally watch) and have the minis paired with the other XL4 for the rest of the family. If I need to watch TV from other than the main TV, I'll still be able to access my recorded shows. But it may be nice to keep my recordings separate from the rest of the family so they don't mess everything up ;-)


You could definitely do that, but depending on how many family members you have and how often they all want to watch TV or record shows at the same time, they might start to run short on tuners from time to time. You could upgrade one of the XL4s to a Roamio Plus and run all the Minis off it, and then the rest of the family would have 6 tuners to work with and you can keep your XL4 to yourself.


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## PatrickNSF (Dec 16, 2012)

Thanks for all the responses. Just spent the afternoon hooking up two minis and moving our Premiers from the media closet (routed through a component matrix switch) to direct HDMI connections to our two main TVs.

Wow. I knew I was losing some picture (and sound) quality routing everything through the component matrix switch, but it was more of a loss than I realized. Huge upgrade here just dumping the switch for the two minis 

Based on all the suggestions  which were really helpful  I think I'll keep two two host Tivos and add another mini to the remaining 5th TV (or just skip it  it's in the office/gym and rarely used). I think there's still some value to having the spouse/kid TV shows recorded on one Tivo, and my TV shows/shared movies on the other. I didn't really pay attention until getting everything hooked up this afternoon, but one Tivo is at 50% and the other is at 80% capacity. I'm not sure going down from 4TB to 2TB makes sense without getting more disciplined about deleting shows. So I'll just leave that be for now.

I think the last remaining issue is whether it makes sense to swap out one of the XL4s for the Roamio. I think best case I'm looking at a $300 outlay (very rough guess) after selling the XL4 and buying the Roamio w/ Lifetime. I need to take a closer look at what it gets me, apart from the two additional tuners.

But all in all, a really nice change here. Wish I had looked at doing this sooner. Thanks for all the help.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Keep in mind that the Plus version only has 1TB and the Pro has 3TB, so there is no direct replacement for an XL4 which has 2TB. Since the Roamio has more tuners, which means more recording, you'll likely want to go with the Pro, which is about $150 more then you're figuring. Even if you buy the Plus and upgrade yourself the drive is going to be about $100-$120, so it's not a huge savings. (although you end up with a 1TB drive you could use for something else)


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## PatrickNSF (Dec 16, 2012)

Dan203 said:


> Keep in mind that the Plus version only has 1TB and the Pro has 3TB


Thanks. I didn't realize the Pro had 3TB. I assumed 2TB for some reason.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

PatrickNSF said:


> Thanks. I'm picking up a mini today at Best Buy to experiment before committing to an overhaul.
> 
> But your comment has me thinking that I may be best off keeping both XL4s instead of consolidating to one Roamio Pro. I'd keep "my" XL4 on the main TV (where I normally watch) and have the minis paired with the other XL4 for the rest of the family. If I need to watch TV from other than the main TV, I'll still be able to access my recorded shows. But it may be nice to keep my recordings separate from the rest of the family so they don't mess everything up ;-)


Yeah, that would work fine, and the XL4s are more than capable of handling up to 3 Mini's at once. If you really wanted to expand, you could also replace one XL4 and keep another- you have plenty of options.


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## PatrickNSF (Dec 16, 2012)

Bigg said:


> Yeah, that would work fine, and the XL4s are more than capable of handling up to 3 Mini's at once. If you really wanted to expand, you could also replace one XL4 and keep another- you have plenty of options.


Thanks. That's the plan (for today). I ordered the 3rd mini and will hang onto both XL4s for the time being. If I find a great deal on a Roamio Pro (with lifetime) I'll swap one of the XL4s out. But thinking it over and talking it through this morning after playing around with the new setup, I think we're better off for the time being having two Tivos that can record.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

PatrickNSF said:


> Thanks. That's the plan (for today). I ordered the 3rd mini and will hang onto both XL4s for the time being. If I find a great deal on a Roamio Pro (with lifetime) I'll swap one of the XL4s out. But thinking it over and talking it through this morning after playing around with the new setup, I think we're better off for the time being having two Tivos that can record.


Cool. You're really going to enjoy having the Minis around and having a true whole-home DVR setup!


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## abovethesink (Aug 26, 2013)

Dan203 said:


> The Mini is reflection of the host TiVo so just like the host TiVo it will list all other TiVos on your network at the bottom of My Shows which you can then select and play any recording from that TiVo as well.
> 
> However you can only schedule recordings and manage SPs for the host TiVo, so it can be a bit confusing there.


As someone who has never owned more than one TiVo... What? TiVos can play recordings off each other?


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## fred2 (Jan 20, 2006)

abovethesink said:


> As someone who has never owned more than one TiVo... What? TiVos can play recordings off each other?


I don't know about minis. But tivos can TRANSFER recordings between each other. At the bottom of the list of items will be the other tivo's name/id. It can only transfer one at a time but you can queue them up.


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## Number528 (Oct 6, 2011)

abovethesink said:


> As someone who has never owned more than one TiVo... What? TiVos can play recordings off each other?





fred2 said:


> I don't know about minis. But tivos can TRANSFER recordings between each other. At the bottom of the list of items will be the other tivo's name/id. It can only transfer one at a time but you can queue them up.


You can watch shows recorded on another Tivo as well as transfer them. In fact, you can watch shows that can't be transferred because of copy protection. I have a Premiere and a Roamio and do this fairly regularly in both directions.


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## fred2 (Jan 20, 2006)

Number528 said:


> You can watch shows recorded on another Tivo as well as transfer them. In fact, you can watch shows that can't be transferred because of copy protection. I have a Premiere and a Roamio and do this fairly regularly in both directions.


Okay, how to you "WATCH" as opposed to transfer? Or is it dependent on the Tivo models involved? My other tivo is a Series S3 of some sort. I just navigated to DVR S3, located a show and hit Select. I am offered TRANSFER, not watch. Oh, I should add, they are both on wifi, and not directly wired to a router, if that makes any difference.

Thanks in advance.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

fred2 said:


> Okay, how to you "WATCH" as opposed to transfer? Or is it dependent on the Tivo models involved? My other tivo is a Series S3 of some sort. I just navigated to DVR S3, located a show and hit Select. I am offered TRANSFER, not watch. Oh, I should add, they are both on wifi, and not directly wired to a router, if that makes any difference. Thanks in advance.


An S3 won't work. It must be a premiere or newer TiVo to stream to another TiVo premiere or Roamio.


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## fred2 (Jan 20, 2006)

HarperVision said:


> An S3 won't work. It must be a premiere or newer TiVo to stream to another TiVo premiere or Roamio.


Thanks for the answer.

That brings up another question. Is this Tivo to Tivo transfer slower than when I've used Pytivo to transfer from my computer to the S3? It seems quite slow but that's only a feeling. The Roamio is relatively new and I don't think I've used Pytivo to transfer to it yet.

And a reason to potentially replace the S3


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

fred2 said:


> Thanks for the answer.
> 
> That brings up another question. Is this Tivo to Tivo transfer slower than when I've used Pytivo to transfer from my computer to the S3? It seems quite slow but that's only a feeling. The Roamio is relatively new and I don't think I've used Pytivo to transfer to it yet.
> 
> And a reason to potentially replace the S3


Transfer speeds from my Roamio Pro to my Roamio BAsic are over 90Mb/s.

Transfer speeds from my Roamio Pro to a PC are over 170Mb/s using KMTTG.

The Roamio Pro has a GigE port but the Roamio BAsic only has a 100BT connection so it's transfer rates will be under 100Mb/s.


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## gigaguy (Aug 30, 2013)

Transfer of shows here is very limited (and not really needed for me) since Time Warner blocks almost all transfers due to it's heavy copyright protection scheme. But streaming between my XL4 and Premiere works almost flawlessly, amazing to me considering it's all done via Wifi. Each Tivo shows up as a device on the Tivo window, you just navigate to it and pick shows like normal. You can delete shows too from either Tivo. 
great feature.
I considered getting a Mini to use off my main Tivo but decided to keep my old Premiere and use it in the bedroom. I get full Tivos in 2 rooms with easy sharing (streaming) between them. (got the $99 Lifetime on the older TIvo) so kept it.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Yeah, 100mbps Ethernet is limited to ~93mbps in practice if you're lucky. My XL4 is a dog with transfers. I'm transferring some stuff off to my HTPC right now, which is connected via a gig switch, and it's barely managing 40mbps. Pathetic. The HTPC can take over 100MB/s from my laptop, so it's not the issue.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

abovethesink said:


> As someone who has never owned more than one TiVo... What? TiVos can play recordings off each other?


Yes. All other TiVos on your network will show up at the bottom of My Shows (or there is a new selection for them in the left column if you have that turned on) when you select one it will show you the My Shows list of that TiVo. Select any show and hit Play and it will play on the TiVo you're using instantly just as if it was stored on that TiVo. If the show is not copy protected you can also select it and select copy to this DVR and it will actually create a copy of the show on the TiVo you're using. However this is really only necessary if you're trying to free up space on one or you're moving stuff over to a new unit. Otherwise the streaming method works way better.



fred2 said:


> I don't know about minis. But tivos can TRANSFER recordings between each other. At the bottom of the list of items will be the other tivo's name/id. It can only transfer one at a time but you can queue them up.


S3 units can't stream. Premiere and newer units can. Also if you do need to transfer it's a LOT faster with newer units. Between two Roamio Pros, connected via gigabit switch, I can transfer a 1 hour HD show in a couple of minutes. Unlike the old S3 units I use to have where it took almost realtime.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> S3 units can't stream. Premiere and newer units can. Also if you do need to transfer it's a LOT faster with newer units. Between two Roamio Pros, connected via gigabit switch, I can transfer a 1 hour HD show in a couple of minutes. Unlike the old S3 units I use to have where it took almost realtime.


How does that compare to TiVo Desktop? TiVo Desktop from a Premiere on a gig switch runs at about 3-4x realtime (35-40mbps with heavily compressed Comcast).


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I have a MoCa network between my TiVo and PC, which is limited to 10/100 by the ethernet port on the MoCa bridge. But I just ran a test. I downloaded a 35 minute show, that was 2.84GB in size and it took exactly 4 minutes. The download meter in my browser was hovering between 11.2-11.4MBps the whole time, which is roughly 90Mbps, which is pretty much the max for a 10/100 network. 

Others who have pure gigabit between TiVo and PC report even faster speeds.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> I have a MoCa network between my TiVo and PC, which is limited to 10/100 by the ethernet port on the MoCa bridge. But I just ran a test. I downloaded a 35 minute show, that was 2.84GB in size and it took exactly 4 minutes. The download meter in my browser was hovering between 11.2-11.4MBps the whole time, which is roughly 90Mbps, which is pretty much the max for a 10/100 network.
> 
> Others who have pure gigabit between TiVo and PC report even faster speeds.


On a Roamio? The Premiere sure can't get those speeds...


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Bigg said:


> On a Roamio? The Premiere sure can't get those speeds...


Yep, that was Roamio Pro to PC over a 10/100 network. From what I understand you can get over 200Mbps if you have gigabit.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> Yep, that was Roamio Pro to PC over a 10/100 network. From what I understand you can get over 200Mbps if you have gigabit.


Nice. I can't really complain about the Premiere, the transfers work fine, but they aren't exactly blistering fast!


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Bigg said:


> How does that compare to TiVo Desktop? TiVo Desktop from a Premiere on a gig switch runs at about 3-4x realtime (35-40mbps with heavily compressed Comcast).


I haven't tested TiVo Desktop speeds lately since I've been using KMTTG exclusively for the past few months. But with KMTTG and with my Roamio Pro using the GigE port, I will get over 170Mb/s throughput rates between them.

Of course if the Roamio Pro is doing anything else on the network, like streaming to a Mini, then the transfer rates will be a little lower to/from the PC.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> I haven't tested TiVo Desktop speeds lately since I've been using KMTTG exclusively for the past few months. But with KMTTG and with my Roamio Pro using the GigE port, I will get over 170Mb/s throughput rates between them.
> 
> Of course if the Roamio Pro is doing anything else on the network, like streaming to a Mini, then the transfer rates will be a little lower to/from the PC.


Nice. That's pretty good.


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## loribigby (Nov 24, 2004)

I have researched and researched so I thought maybe some of you could tell me the best set up. I have two Tivo Premieres series 4 (two tuners) and one Tivo Series 2. I just bought a Tivo Roamio Plus and have been trying to install it over the weekend. Previously all my Tivos were set up on our home wireless network. This network is central in our home but not close to any tvs. So, I'm guessing I need to do the MoCA bridge, right? I've decided to retire my Series 2 and keep the Premieres for the time being. In order to make this work do I need a MoCA for the Network and then one for each of the Premieres? Are having the Premieres as good as having a mini? What about a wireless bridge that tricks the Tivo's into thinking they are hardwired? 

Thanks for any insights you have.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

loribigby said:


> I have researched and researched so I thought maybe some of you could tell me the best set up. I have two Tivo Premieres series 4 (two tuners) and one Tivo Series 2. I just bought a Tivo Roamio Plus and have been trying to install it over the weekend. Previously all my Tivos were set up on our home wireless network. This network is central in our home but not close to any tvs. So, I'm guessing I need to do the MoCA bridge, right? I've decided to retire my Series 2 and keep the Premieres for the time being. In order to make this work do I need a MoCA for the Network and then one for each of the Premieres? Are having the Premieres as good as having a mini? What about a wireless bridge that tricks the Tivo's into thinking they are hardwired?
> 
> Thanks for any insights you have.


You want MoCA bridging. Wireless bridges will make them think they're wired, but it may or may not be reliable enough for streaming between units. Get a MoCA adapter for each of the two Premieres if you don't have Ethernet available at those locations, and then tie the MoCA network to Ethernet somewhere, which could be with another MoCA adapter at your router, or through the Roamio Plus if you can run an Ethernet cable from your router to that.

Having Premieres is different from having Minis, although you can have a combination of them as long as you have one 4/6 tuner box like the Plus to host the Minis. The Minis give close to the same experience of the host box, with the same recordings and whatnot, the Premieres are separate boxes with separate tuners, but you can stream or download between the Premieres and the Roamio Plus.

So basically the Premiers are better and worse than having a Mini, but not the same at all. I prefer one unifed system, but some people might want some separation, or more boxes with local tuners.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

loribigby said:


> I have researched and researched so I thought maybe some of you could tell me the best set up. I have two Tivo Premieres series 4 (two tuners) and one Tivo Series 2. I just bought a Tivo Roamio Plus and have been trying to install it over the weekend. Previously all my Tivos were set up on our home wireless network. This network is central in our home but not close to any tvs. So, I'm guessing I need to do the MoCA bridge, right? I've decided to retire my Series 2 and keep the Premieres for the time being. In order to make this work do I need a MoCA for the Network and then one for each of the Premieres? Are having the Premieres as good as having a mini? What about a wireless bridge that tricks the Tivo's into thinking they are hardwired?
> 
> Thanks for any insights you have.


Might be cheaper/easier to get Minis. The Minis have built in MoCa, so they don't need the $50 bridge. They also come with lifetime service for free, so no TiVo service fee. They do not require a CableCARD so no rental fee or outlet fee from your cable company. And they draw significantly less power so they'll save you a bit of electricity in the long run.


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## PatrickNSF (Dec 16, 2012)

Just to follow-up...

I started the thread. I replaced one Premiere XL4 with a Roamio Pro and it's working well. We have three Minis hooked up to the Roamio.

I've considered selling the other Premiere XL4 and replacing it with another Mini. I'm fine losing the extra hard drive space and the additional tuners, but one thing seems problematic &#8211; I have't been able to figure out a way to better organize what turns up in My Shows. There are three of us in the household, and my spouse and son record on one Tivo, and I record on the other. As far as I can tell, the only was to continue to be able to segregate/organize/manage our individual recordings is to keep the XL4. 

Is that correct?


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

PatrickNSF said:


> Just to follow-up...
> 
> I started the thread. I replaced one Premiere XL4 with a Roamio Pro and it's working well. We have three Minis hooked up to the Roamio.
> 
> ...


That is correct. It would be nice if TiVo would implement some kind of profile system. Maybe someday they will, but until then there is no good solution.


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