# DTivos that are "rebooting"



## ebonovic

Serious request here...

What units are you seeing rebooting on....

Please wait a second... I'll be right back with the poll.


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## ebonovic

Please vote here:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=76110

As TCF has a limit of 6 choices, where DBSTalk does have such a limit.

Earl


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## lew

I'm not going to register on the other board just to post but some other questions:

Does your unit make phone calls? Is it hacked with some script or did the owner just unplug the phone line?

Does your unit get showcases? Some hacked units don't and there is some question if the reboots are occuring after the nightly D/L of showcases.


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## skodises

Just voted over there. HDVR2, unhacked, reboots at random- sometimes when recording, sometimes when viewing recorded programs, sometimes when simply watching live TV, sometimes when not being watched at all. There is no obvious synchronization to the showcase download process. I'm currently looking into hacking the unit, just to be able to kill syslogd, since the /var-fills-up-with-errors hypothesis makes perfect sense to me...


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## disco

DBSTalk is a GREAT forum to register and be a member of...basically "TCF for Satellite".

HDVR2: hacked (zipper'd), v6.2, phone line plugged in (but only for caller-id...fakecall runs nightly), networked to second TiVo. Never noticed a reboot, but missing Season Passes.

DSR704: Same.


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## Gunnyman

Hacked unplugged from phonelines no problems on 3 units


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## ttodd1

Hacked unplugged from phonelines no problems on 2 units


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## DreadPirateRob

Non-hacked, not plugged in, no problems on 2 units (and HDVR2 and an R10). I haven't forced a call in 124 days (apparently). Could that be why I've had no problems?


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## mphare

1 DSR704, hacked with PTVNet, I've noticed the /var filling up, but only notice the reboot if I'm playing with TWP (it rebooted last night while recording The Office and Ugly Betty; lost the last 15 min of the programs). Phoneline connected, but only for Caller ID; running fakecall.

1 DSR704 is unhacked (for now, this may change after this weekend) and I don't know if it is rebooting or not. (How can I tell?). Phoneline connected

1 DSR704 is sitting in a box awaiting activation and a PTVNet upgraded 250 GB drive.


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## roehrle

R15 no problems
sd-dvr40 
rebooting several times a day since before xmas 
Phone disconnect for 3 months
several local channels on season pass


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## mhn2

R10 unhacked. Multiple reboots a day. Unplugged phone line and did clear and delete program data and no problems since.

Crossing fingers.


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## ustewjt

ebonovic said:


> What units are you seeing rebooting on....


Two (2) - DSR708 (R17) (factory - non hacked)

Both frequently lose their 30 sec skip. Also do not currently return any results for "keywords" searches when setting up wishlists.

- Tim


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## gworkman

4 SD 1 HD All hacked. No phone line. No problems. I do see the TVLOG squeezing space, so I clear it through TivoWeb every "now and again".


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## austinsho

One Philips 7000 with a 250gig drive, one HR10 virgin, one Samsung 4040 with a 160gig drive, all at 6.0 or better, booting every 2-3 days.

They don't make 'em like they used to.............


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## bengalfreak

4 Units...all hacked...all unplugged...No problems


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## bryhamm

GD this is getting frustrating ... I am watching the news here in St Louis about the 2 boys that were found and then BAM ... reboot.


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## drew2k

HR10-250: 2 receivers
HDVR2: 2 receivers

None are hacked.

(ETA: I've never noticed my receivers rebooting while I was watching ... it only seems to happen overnight. I only know they are rebooting because the next day my 30-sec-skip code is gone, as is the code that quickly hides the TiVo status bar during playback.)


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## mw1597

Hughes SD-DVR40, 6.2-01-2-351 stock. Reboots at random. After reboot both tuners are on the same channel.

-Mike


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## D C

skodises said:


> Just voted over there. HDVR2, unhacked, reboots at random- sometimes when recording, sometimes when viewing recorded programs, sometimes when simply watching live TV, sometimes when not being watched at all. There is no obvious synchronization to the showcase download process. I'm currently looking into hacking the unit, just to be able to kill syslogd, since the /var-fills-up-with-errors hypothesis makes perfect sense to me...


Same thing with my DSR704

Unhacked, just as it came out of the box. Started these random reboots during normal viewing a couple-few weeks ago. They seem to be getting more frequent...and they're starting to piss me off. Is it getting close to time to call Dish?


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## ebonovic

Okay...

Here is the latest:

From what I have been told;
As that TiVo, Inc... has identified the issue... and is working on the appropriate fix for it... which may ultimate result in new software downloads for the DTivo units. If/When that may happen... the details are not known yet.

In the mean time, they have identified a work around, that should reduce/eliminate the issue until the appropriate fix can be put in place. That work-around maybe in place this weekend.

Here is a link to the news.com article. That has DirecTV's statement in it.
http://news.com.com/Customers+miffe...roblems/2100-1038_3-6150142.html?tag=nefd.top


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## dslunceford

ebonovic said:


> Okay...
> 
> Here is the latest:
> 
> From what I have been told;
> As that TiVo, Inc... has identified the issue... and is working on the appropriate fix for it... which may ultimate result in new software downloads for the DTivo units. If/When that may happen... the details are not known yet.


These would come over satellite, right? or would phone need to be connected?


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## tonyquan

ebonovic said:


> Okay...
> 
> Here is the latest:
> 
> From what I have been told;
> As that TiVo, Inc... has identified the issue... and is working on the appropriate fix for it... which may ultimate result in new software downloads for the DTivo units. If/When that may happen... the details are not known yet.
> 
> In the mean time, they have identified a work around, that should reduce/eliminate the issue until the appropriate fix can be put in place. That work-around maybe in place this weekend.
> 
> Here is a link to the news.com article. That has DirecTV's statement in it.
> http://news.com.com/Customers+miffe...roblems/2100-1038_3-6150142.html?tag=nefd.top


The news.com article said that a fix would go into place "this evening", which I assume means Friday evening.

I have a hacked HR10-250 so can see the logs, etc written on the device. Around the time that all of the trouble started, the file /var/log/tvlog was constantly (once a second or so) adding an error message that implied possible bad guide data (Apg is "advanced program guide" i believe in DirecTV speak) The message looked like this:

Jan 3 11:45:13 (none) ApgCamInterfaceBase[227]: FindServerObject: scanner found nothing at A00000000, err = 0x0
Jan 3 11:45:13 (none) ApgExprEvaluator[227]: DoEvaluate() returned err = errDbNotFound, setting result to zero

it appears DirecTV may have kept to their word about trying to fix this problem today, because on my unit these repeated messages in the log are now gone. The theory in this and several other forums was that these errors eventually caused the log to grow big enough that it filled the Tivo's disk and led to crashes.

can anyone else with a hacked unit report if their tvlog still has errors like the above?


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## chrishicks

how exactly would we have received the fix by the way?


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## dtremain

chrishicks said:


> how exactly would we have received the fix by the way?


Through the satellite, like most data is received?


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## Brutelee

tonyquan said:


> can anyone else with a hacked unit report if their tvlog still has errors like the above?


I have 4 zippered units (2 hdvr2s and 2 dsr7000s) that were all showing similar errors. I had modified all of them to eliminate logging to tvlog. I just reversed that change on one of them and the errors appear to have ceased.

If this one continues without errors I will reverse the changes on the other 3.


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## amcanzo

Mine is hacked, and no longer receiving the errors.......


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## mphare

So, if DTV pushes a fix to my hacked units, wouldn't that overwrite the hacks thus hendering my ability to snoop the logs?


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## chrishicks

dtremain said:


> Through the satellite, like most data is received?


I meant in the lines of doing a reboot or something.


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## tbeckner

mphare said:


> So, if DTV pushes a fix to my hacked units, wouldn't that overwrite the hacks thus hendering my ability to snoop the logs?


I wouldn't worry about an update, the error is gone from all of my units, so it appears to have been a data fix or an update that didn't require a reboot & could be loaded unto hacked units without distrubing anything.


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## Delta13

If ebonovic's information is correct, then the stoppage of the error message is just the workaround. Just to bridge the gap until a permanent fix is rolled. Which MAY be an update ...

But thank goodness for some relief, anyway. Thanks Earl for the info.


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## dthreet

Hmm..... one of mine Phillips DSR-704's been doing the reboot thing, and season pass. I did a Clear Data Programing and To Do list. The Season Passes work great now, but it still reboots. My other Philips says its uptime is 63 days. So I guess its ok. I wonder if this might have anything to do with the HR10-250's not getting slices for 6.3b. I am still at 3.1.5f (hacked) and make daily calls but still no download.


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## goony

See http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4770897&&#post4770897


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## Billy Bob Boy

Mine stopped rebooting over 2 weeks ago since i unplugged the phone line. But others have said they did the same thing. Who knows! Mine may reboot any second now. D* Now says they are aware of the issue. I think they have discontinued level 1 support until this is resolved because i called and right away just asking for tech support sent me to level 2 or above what ever that is.

They are for sure putting this on tivo and i am sure tivo is putting blame on D*. 
If the problem is tivo(which I doubt) I kind of understand why they are dragging their feet. (would you want to give help to a customer who dropped your business years ago and have No intention of ever going back?) Tivo does not want its name ruined by this so i am sure they are working together with D* to fix it.


IMHO this problem Is D*'s fault. Tivo has no ties with D* anymore and the software has been working 100% perfect for well over a year since they announced the break up. If tivo were still responsible for maintaining the software.(say a new version came out) IMHO then tivo could be blamed for this. D* Did something that they wont admit too that caused a glitch in The Rock solid 6.2 software.(How Is this Tivos fault)

If I own a tech product and do something to it that is not reccomended by the manufacturer is it the manufacture fault when something goes wrong with it. If this happened 2 years ago. I could see tivo getting blamed. NO Freakin way is this the fault of tivo. 

I wonder if we will ever learn the truth?


BTW Upgraded drives No hacks sd-dvr40


BTW 2 at least D* is no longer pushing the clear and delete, reformat your drive, get a r15 angle


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## Dirac

This is good... hopefully they roll the final fix in with the OTA recording problems (empty recordings and the like), and we'll finally be up to 3.1.5f reliability.


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## mphare

I'll bet it was an error (or 'a change') in the data stream, and the fix was to correct the data stream, not to push any SW change to the DTiVos.

What they have to determine is why the DS was changed and if the change is necessary for some future content (say, VOD), then what to do with all the legacy products that broke with the new DS.

Has anyone heard if the UTVs had a problem during this time?

It's been a while since I had an activated non-DVR receiver, but it seems like you could schedule the unit ti change channels for certain upcoming programming. I wonder if any of them had problems?


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## dtremain

mphare said:


> It's been a while since I had an activated non-DVR receiver, but it seems like you could schedule the unit ti change channels for certain upcoming programming. I wonder if any of them had problems?


I'm assuming that it was coincidental, but I have two Directivo units and one standard receiver (on the porch). During December, I picked up the phone one day to hear a "whine" coming through it. Since the DSL was working, I knew the phone line was fine and that it had to be some device in the house. I decided to unplug them one at a time. I started with the line from the modem of the standard receiver. When I unplugged it, the whine went away and the dial tone was back. I re-booted the receiver, plugged the phone line back in, and haven't had a problem since. I've had it for years and never had a problem until last month.

It could, of course, be a coincidence.


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## John T Smith

All boxes are UN-hacked, and all are
connected to the telephone line

Hughes HR10-250 in theater
Software 6.3a-01-2-357
At 39c Temp on Jan 12 2007
Only individual movies, no SP's
Only used some evenings for movie,
so have not SEEN any restarts

Samsung SIR-S4120R in Bedroom
Software 6.2-01-2-381
At 36c Temp on Jan 12 2007
Have noticed missing SP shows
Have had restart while watching, most
recently about 8pm Friday Jan 12

RCA DVR80 in Exercise area
Software 6.2-01-2-321
At 36c Temp on Jan 12 2007
Have noticed missing SP shows
Not watched right now (still moving in to
new house and getting plenty of exercise)
so don't know about any restarts

RCA DVR80 for Great Room	
Software 6.2-01-2-321
At 38c Temp on Jan 12 2007
Have noticed missing SP shows
Have had restart while watching

Current preventive measure is to go to each
of the 3 with SP's and do a daily forced call
and then a restart to force a data indexing

Since the reports are that a data fix was done
last night (may have been why the bedroom unit
did a restart?) I will stop this and watch


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## MAGold

finally got 6.3b this seems to have fixed the reboots for now...cautiously optimistic thanks for all the info


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## ebonovic

Temporary changes where made to the data stream... to remove the piece that was causing the problems. This is a temporary fix, until new software can be coded and tested.


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## MNoelH

Someone recommended I unplug the phone lines, which I did on Thursday. Friday night I got a reboot in the middle of Law and Order (really bad timing too... this 6 or so minutes I lost were evidently crucial to the storyline...) on one of the two TiVos.


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## Delta13

I have 2 Dtivos, 1 of which suffers the reboots (HDVR2) and 1 of which doesn't (SD40). Both are plugged into the same UPS, the same phone line, they both make calls, etc. The significant difference is the rebooting DTivo has local SPs, and other one doesn't.

The non-rebooting one has a ton of SPs on it, just no local ones. Neither are hacked or modified.

I noticed a change last night: I was out of town from Tuesday to Friday, and I checked the rebooter to see if everything was fine. It had not rebooted during that entire time! I don't think it had ever gone that long. But it picked up a new problem - the SP "has been modified by someone in your household" trick.  

It said earlier in the week that it WOULD record 24 this weekend, but now it claims it cannot (because of the "modification") so I know something changed while I was gone. Heroes and CI also now can't be recorded, but were in the list before as well. 

Okay, so this isn't news to anyone suffering from this. I just thought it unusual that mine just started having this issue.

Someone has probably already thought of this or said it here, so my apologies in advance. But what if the Log File Glitch was the preparation for the local channel remapping supposedly taking place? You would get the Glitch even without the remapping taking place, but once they remapped your local SPs you would get the dreaded "modification"?

It might explain why different people report seeing this at different times. And I could be completely in left field here, too.


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## dtremain

MNoelH said:


> Someone recommended I unplug the phone lines, which I did on Thursday. Friday night I got a reboot in the middle of Law and Order (really bad timing too... this 6 or so minutes I lost were evidently crucial to the storyline...) on one of the two TiVos.


I already deleted it. Can't even send you a copy.


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## MNoelH

dtremain said:


> I already deleted it. Can't even send you a copy.


Thanks, but no worries. These repeat so quickly that I'll be able to watch it again in about 3 weeks.


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## Delta13

Update: I forced a reboot this afternoon, and all of my trouble SPs reappeared in the To Do List. They no longer claim someone modified them. I made no changes other than forcing the reboot.


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## dtremain

MNoelH said:


> Thanks, but no worries. These repeat so quickly that I'll be able to watch it again in about 3 weeks.


All too true. How about "House"? They just had the first new show in weeks and the next one is in three weeks. What do they do, make five a year?


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## JohnDG

ebonovic said:


> Temporary changes where made to the data stream... to remove the piece that was causing the problems. This is a temporary fix, until new software can be coded and tested.


However, now we have a dilemma. DTV is probably going to want to go back to the "problem" guide data, as this was a change for the HR20s? To fix the DTiVo's, a software update is required.

But... is this going to be a buggy 6.3c for the HR10s? With the "deleted early due to no space" problems still in place? Can they get 6.3x fixed in its entirety before the guide data starts impacting the 3.1.5f machines?

jdg


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## Rhughes

Have an R10 and DSR 708. Both upgraded with larger drives. Neither hacked.

The R10 has been having random reboots for the last couple of weeks. The DSR 708 was OK until last night right in the middle of recording the CMA awards it too decided to reboot.

My current software versions are:

R10 - 6.1-01-2-521
708 - 6.2-01-2-301

Are these the latest versions for these two units?


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## ebonovic

JohnDG said:


> However, now we have a dilemma. DTV is probably going to want to go back to the "problem" guide data, as this was a change for the HR20s? To fix the DTiVo's, a software update is required.
> 
> But... is this going to be a buggy 6.3c for the HR10s? With the "deleted early due to no space" problems still in place? Can they get 6.3x fixed in its entirety before the guide data starts impacting the 3.1.5f machines?
> 
> jdg


You are right... DirecTV does want to go back to the enhanced guide data...
And will go back to the enhanced guide data... but now, they have to wait... until the DTivo software get's updated (for all systems).... so they can continue with "their" business plans.

And people wonder why, people say... it wasn't "just" about the money about going their own way.... UTV didn't seem to have a problem with the "enhanced" guide data. Nor did any of the non-dvr systems? Even those that are many years old...

And it is TiVo, Inc... that has to write the software... and DirecTV has to wait for them to complete not 1, but 5 different software builds. (Series 1, Series 2a, Series 2b, Series 2.5, and HR10)


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## IminMs

Earl, Thanks for the continued updates. I know you get the "inside" scoops, and i'm in no hurry, but, do you hear that it may be 1-2 weeks per version, or 1-2 months in time frame?
Would they roll the updates out all at once or S1, then S2, S2.5 etc...?

Thanks for any insight.


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## disco

So, for us with Zippered units who don't allow for software updates, what does this mean?? That we're f'd? That we have to continue to leave the tvlog'ing turned off? 

And what is this "enhanced guide data"?? What's the "enhancement"?


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## ebonovic

IminMs said:


> Earl, Thanks for the continued updates. I know you get the "inside" scoops, and i'm in no hurry, but, do you hear that it may be 1-2 weeks per version, or 1-2 months in time frame?
> Would they roll the updates out all at once or S1, then S2, S2.5 etc...?
> 
> Thanks for any insight.


Zero idea on an estimate time frame.


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## goony

Rhughes said:


> My current software versions are:
> 
> R10 - 6.1-01-2-521
> 708 - 6.2-01-2-301
> 
> Are these the latest versions for these two units?


Yes.

6.1.x is for R10s
6.2.x is for all other Series 2 standard def DTivos
6.3.x is for the HR10 Hi-def DTivo

The last 3 digits are a "service number" that indicates who built the box - see this chart.


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## goony

disco said:


> So, for us with Zippered units who don't allow for software updates, what does this mean?? That we're f'd? That we have to continue to leave the tvlog'ing turned off?


Nobody knows just yet. If the change is very minor it might just mean copying a single file to your box and rebooting.

This thread is the first I have seen a mention of "enhanced guide data" so it is also unknown if the DTivo software mod will be written to make use the additional data (doubtful) or simply ignore it (more likely IMHO) without logging errors.

Once the new version is out it is likely that the powerhouse people that put together the Zipper will figure out how to handle it. DirecTV won't revert the guide data the day after the new software rolls out; it will take a while for the majority of the units to get the new software.

I am assuming that they will roll it out via satellite since so many units are involved. Zippered boxes will actually get the new software but won't do anything with it. Unhacked boxes will get the download and won't install until they "phone home" and the mothership tells them to install the new version.

If you are one of the people that has no phone line connected you will probably have to temporarily connect one, or you will have to take it to Aunt Bessie's house to do the call.


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## MNoelH

dtremain said:


> All too true. How about "House"? They just had the first new show in weeks and the next one is in three weeks. What do they do, make five a year?


Heh... I think this is an American Idol problem moreso than a House problem. We should probably move over to the Now Playing section if we're gonna get into this.

Apparently my living room TiVo rebooted some time between yesterday afternoon and 8:00 tonight because Desperate Housewives dropped out.  This was also without the phone line plugged in.


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## TivoJunkie43

Series2 Tivo. 

Since the fall software update my Tivo started spontaneously rebooting while transfers are taking place. I also have the bug that causes some transfers to conclude just as they have started (1MB Bug).

I had 2 reboots today, the first one caused me to miss the beginning of the Bears vs Seahawks game. @#$%[email protected](U

Make that three times today; right now my box is locked up while it appears to be recording something, otherwise I'd go ahead and kick the plug out of the wall.


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## ajayme

My Samsung SIR-S4120R did it tonight durin 8 minutes into 24, fortunately I had a back=up Tivo upstairs also recording 24. It lost about 10 minutes. I'm calling DTV tomorrow and raise heck!!


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## Rhughes

goony said:


> Yes.
> 
> 6.1.x is for R10s
> 6.2.x is for all other Series 2 standard def DTivos
> 6.3.x is for the HR10 Hi-def DTivo
> 
> The last 3 digits are a "service number" that indicates who built the box - see this chart.


Thanks for that reference. I guess I still need to know about the 01-2 in the middle if it was the last update to the software.

As an aside, we had a lot of grief tonight with both DirecTivo's. Season passes weren't recording, and the NFL ball games kept popping up as recordings. I would no sooner cancel one recording when one of the Tivo's would start recording a ball game on another channel. It was like they were possessed. No, I don't have any wish lists for anything.


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## dbuchthal

ebonovic said:


> You are right... DirecTV does want to go back to the enhanced guide data...
> And will go back to the enhanced guide data... but now, they have to wait... until the DTivo software get's updated (for all systems).... so they can continue with "their" business plans.


My tvlog is ballooning again. Whatever workaround they deployed, it didn't last. I expect SP errors and reboots to return soon, unfortunately...


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## goony

dbuchthal said:


> My tvlog is ballooning again. Whatever workaround they deployed, it didn't last. I expect SP errors and reboots to return soon, unfortunately...


Could you post a bit of the log entires that are filling it up? My /var/log/tvlog is quite "normal" and not filling up at all (with bogus errors).


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## ike

Right in the middle of 24 last night, My HD TiVo w/6.3b rebooted. At the time, I wasn't watching 24 but flipping between tuners. The screen froze, went blank and then it rebooted.


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## John T Smith

I don't know if this means much of anything, but I woke up at 1:30am to go to the bathroom and the red record light was not... nothing I was recording, so checked this morning

Last Service Connect 1-13 7:43am (I forced a call)
Last Service Data 1-15 2:35am
GC 1-15 1:05am (start of service data?)
Index 1-15 8:37am

Not knowing what all this means, I **think** GC was the start of the data downlaod I saw at 1:30 and 2:35 was the completion... is this correct?

If so, I wonder what took and hour and a half to download?

Software version this morning is the same... but I have also NOT forced a call and a restart


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## drew2k

GC is Garbage Collection. It's when TiVo is supposed to do it's daily chores, such as cleaning up temp space, freeing memory, deleting unused files, logs, etc. There's no red light associated with GC.

You could see a red-light if a showcase is being recorded, or for material for the Press Thumbs-Up For More ads.


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## gworkman

I understand D* having problems getting updates to work on all hardware platforms. I don't understand why D* didn't see this problem before crashing out it's users' boxes. Don't they have a few Tivos sitting around in the software development department where they can actually test the guide data changes before rolling it out to the masses? In as much as they decided to go in the same direction as E* on building their own boxes, it seems they also follow E*'s lead on Q/A.


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## drew2k

gworkman said:


> I understand D* having problems getting updates to work on all hardware platforms. I don't understand why D* didn't see this problem before crashing out it's users' boxes.


Start reading here regarding testing ...


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## ebonovic

gworkman said:


> I understand D* having problems getting updates to work on all hardware platforms. I don't understand why D* didn't see this problem before crashing out it's users' boxes. Don't they have a few Tivos sitting around in the software development department where they can actually test the guide data changes before rolling it out to the masses? In as much as they decided to go in the same direction as E* on building their own boxes, it seems they also follow E*'s lead on Q/A.


But how many is enough?

Even here in the forums... there are units of all types have not had the problem.
So even if they had a hundred DTivos... of all different types... (I don't know what their testing center is like).

But again... from a software test level... if the changes complied to the standard for the guide data... that is an easy automated test....

And maybe they just assumed that the TiVo software was fully compliant with the standard....

I don't know, and I don't think any of us will "ever" know.

All that matters now, is that they know what is wrong... and that it has to get it corrected... as DirecTV needs the extended data in the guide.


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## gworkman

Although users are not reporting their Tivo crashing, I'd bet they still have the same issue with the log. Most users don't have access to the logs to see that they are growing for no particular reason. I have several boxes of which none have rebooted. Of my 4 SD boxes, all have growing log files. I hadn't logged into my kids boxes to see what their logs looked like until today. They have the same issues in the log but they haven't rebooted. I would bet that most everybody has the growing logs...they just don't know.

I'd agree that I don't know what really happens behind the scenes. It does appear, to an end user, that ever since D* went down the path of building their own DVRs, the Tivo community has been horribly neglected.


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## scottjf8

Both my HR10-250 downstairs and my DSR-708 upstairs reboot all the time.


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## stevel

The log files are no longer filling up with error messages.


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## goony

gworkman said:


> Of my 4 SD boxes, all have growing log files. I hadn't logged into my kids boxes to see what their logs looked like until today. They have the same issues in the log but they haven't rebooted. I would bet that most everybody has the growing logs...they just don't know.


If /var/log/tvlog grows, that is normal - it is the insanely rapid growth of being filled with nearly continuous errors due to a change in guide data that caused the issues. Examples of the exact error messages can be found in some of the posts in the last 10 days or so.

There must be some kind of periodic logfile pruning that occurs in the Tivo setup but it probably only runs once per day... the rate at which the log was filling up during the error condition it could not not prune the file before it filled up completely.


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## dbuchthal

goony said:


> Could you post a bit of the log entires that are filling it up? My /var/log/tvlog is quite "normal" and not filling up at all (with bogus errors).


I confess that I only recently put TiVoWebPlus on my TiVo, so I'm not completely familiar with the log files. When I looked at this during "the bad time," I had many lines with the word "clamped" in it like I see below:



Code:


Log cleared on Sun Jan 14, 2007 by TivoWebPlus
Jan 15 07:50:03 (none) last message repeated 4 times
Jan 15 07:50:06 (none) mediamgr[223]: FlushRecording input#0
Jan 15 07:50:06 (none) TmkTransform::Trace[223]: flushing fsid 196145 upto 4096:1748
Jan 15 07:50:07 (none) Recorder[223]: Adding check schedule task
Jan 15 07:50:14 (none) Recorder[223]: Item rec 183549: estimate kilobytes per second: 252 clamped 252 seconds 2080
Jan 15 07:50:28 (none) Recorder[223]: Item rec 183549: estimate kilobytes per second: 252 clamped 252 seconds 2080
Jan 15 07:50:29 (none) mempool[230]: myworld block: 1133kB/1940kB chunk: 236kB/1068kB unused: 636kB search: 1 (size=3735552)
Jan 15 07:50:29 (none) mempool[230]: Osd block: 11kB/20kB chunk: 0kB/0kB unused: 2605kB search: 1 (size=2691040)
Jan 15 07:50:29 (none) mempool[230]: ResourceMgr block: 105kB/155kB chunk: 671kB/671kB unused: 547kB search: 0 (size=1408992)
Jan 15 07:50:42 (none) Recorder[223]: Item rec 183549: estimate kilobytes per second: 252 clamped 252 seconds 2080
Jan 15 07:50:56 (none) Recorder[223]: Item rec 183549: estimate kilobytes per second: 252 clamped 252 seconds 2080
Jan 15 07:51:01 (none) Deadline[223]: Tasks run 98300
Jan 15 07:51:01 (none) Deadline[223]: Existed for 5:16141:121343
Jan 15 07:51:01 (none) Deadline[223]: Overhead time 0:51:400705
Jan 15 07:51:10 (none) Recorder[223]: Item rec 183549: estimate kilobytes per second: 252 clamped 252 seconds 2080
Jan 15 07:51:52 (none) last message repeated 3 times
Jan 15 07:52:06 (none) Recorder[223]: Item rec 183549: estimate kilobytes per second: 252 clamped 252 seconds 2080

Since I cleared my logs about 24 hours ago, my tvlog has grown to about 2MB. Between Friday night and Saturday around mid-day (when I presume the workaround was deployed) I only got a few KB of data.


----------



## ForrestB

I'm no expert - but this tvlog looks typical. When DirecTV was sending the bad data - about 20 identical error messages per second were being generated, and the tvlog file was growing at 35 MB per day!


----------



## rogo

Our HR10 just rebooted in the middle of a recording of American Idol while we were watching yesterday's 24. I can't even begin to comprehend how unacceptable it is to take perfectly functional, maintenance free hardware and turn in to hugely headache-filled garbage that requires being babied.

We are leaving DirecTV. The alternatives >>also<< suck but I can't even consider living with this junk anymore.

(Oh, our first reboot came just days after we took 6.3b... We had the audio dropouts for months on 6.3a.)


----------



## goony

*dbuchthal* I agree - the tvlog file looks like the usual stuff, no trace of the previous errors.


----------



## gravykev

I just got off the phone describing my reboots to a tech. He offered me a new unit. I said I did not want an HR20 and he said it would be replaced with a 'new' HR10-250??!?! 

He also told me that I could reformat the drives and that would fix everything as well. 

Hmmmm so I guess my only options are to lose all my data. I would have accepted the new box if mine were not upgraded, but alas I will wait for the fix at least another week...I still don't even have 6.3b but that might not matter for the reboots


----------



## stevel

Never believe a DirecTV CSR who tells you that "reformatting" (or Clear and Delete Everything) will fix any given problem. This is just their method of making you go away so that they can close the call.


----------



## BobCamp1

Most people won't have to do anything. Your Tivo will return to its old reliable self.

For people still having problems, a reboot should work. 

If that doesn't work, use the Tivo menus to force the Tivo to clear just the guide data (no need to clear and delete everything), and that should work.

If it STILL reboots, you have another unrelated problem.


----------



## kturcotte

How do you clear just the guide data without deleting season passes and wishlists?


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

TiVoJerry thinks the rebooting problems should be fixed. Check out his post in reply to one of mine.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4786340&&#post4786340


----------



## Jumi

My SDVR-80 (hooked to phone) spontanteously rebooted this afternoon. No changes in the system info (ie no concurrent activity). The SP and WL problems have seemed fixed since late December.


----------



## scottjf8

REbooted today when trying to move Idol up on my SP list...


----------



## rdskin00

Season Pass/wishlist/to Do List/locking Up (not All Cases) And Rebooting Occuring On All Tivo Dvrs With Directv As Well As Some Stand Alone Tivo's Still An Open Issue With Directv (still Has Tivo Investigating This One)


----------



## rdskin00

Actually Clear And Delete Everything Is A Process That The Csr Must Have Completed Before Directv Will Offer You A Replacement Dvr (in Response To Previous Posting) Its Not Our Way To Get You Off The Phone But Its Required Before A Replacement Is Issue. I Know It Sounds Hokey But Its Required


----------



## rdskin00

Red Record Light Is Generally On In The Am Between 1 And 4 Recording Tivo Authorized Content From Dtv Sats Flip To Other Tuner And It Will Show Ya The Percentage After Aquisition The Record Light Is Back Off


----------



## Jumi

Another spontaneous reboot this am at 7:10 eastern. These are happening 2X per week now but no ill effects on SP & WL. Timeline: service data download at 2:30 this am, service connection half an hour after the reboot (rebooted while recording). When I turned on the TV about 9 am the selected tuner had been frozen about 20 minutes earlier. Weird! SDVR80 Series 2 on 6.2.


----------



## LacyinTX

I haven't had a reboot in several days. My SP are working as well. The only strange thing is that it makes its calls during the daytime hours. I am not usually watching during the day because I am at work, but Saturday it made it's service connection while I was watching TV. The remote/receiver hadn't been idle. Doesn't it usually know when to make the service downloads because of idle time?

Edit: Because I can't type today.


----------



## scottjf8

My HR10 rebooted a few times yesterday... I don't even use the POS anymore


----------



## Jumi

Did it again - that's twice today (so far).


----------



## John T Smith

If you have restart problems now, after the bad guide data is (from reports) no longer being sent... you most likely have either a bad/failing hard drive, or a unit that is failing in some other way

List of Possible Hard Drive Problems in message#2
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=335120


----------



## bjstewa

John T Smith said:


> If you have restart problems now, after the bad guide data is (from reports) no longer being sent... you most likely have either a bad/failing hard drive, or a unit that is failing in some other way
> 
> List of Possible Hard Drive Problems in message#2
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=335120


So what's next on the list after the Hard Drive? I just added a new HD a couple weeks ago and the reboots continue. I just unpluggled the phone line today for the hell of it to see if it would help.

Mine is still rebooting 1-2 times per day. Last night... right during 24. I wasn't watching it live, but when I went to view it today it was in 2 parts.

Ben
HDVR2 80G HD, 6.2


----------



## John T Smith

>added a new HD a couple weeks ago

Is that in adding a 2nd drive, or replace the original drive?

I have seen disscussion here with SOME people saying the stock power supply is not strong enough to add a 2nd drive and get reliable service

What does the system info screen show for internal temp?


----------



## roehrle

My hughes DRV40 is still rebooting and it's only 2 years old. I know hd's can fail anytime but the odd's are good for a 2 year old drive not to be going bad. 
It's been running great for 4 to 5 hours at a time but generally the 30 second skip is gone over night.


----------



## dtremain

roehrle said:


> My hughes DRV40 is still rebooting and it's only 2 years old. I know hd's can fail anytime but the odd's are good for a 2 year old drive not to be going bad.
> It's been running great for 4 to 5 hours at a time but generally the 30 second skip is gone over night.


It's not the guide data at this point.

Unfortunately, a hard drive can go pretty much anytime.

What is the internal temperature of the unit.


----------



## bjstewa

John T Smith said:


> >added a new HD a couple weeks ago
> 
> Is that in adding a 2nd drive, or replace the original drive?
> 
> I have seen disscussion here with SOME people saying the stock power supply is not strong enough to add a 2nd drive and get reliable service
> 
> What does the system info screen show for internal temp?


Sorry... replaced the original. Internal temp has been running at a consistent 37C.

Ben


----------



## Jumi

Ben-
My Weaknees 144 hour HD is less than 1 year old!


----------



## Tider

I'm not sure I'm having the same problem everyone else is having, but it sure sounds similiar. 

I have a SD-DVR120 (unhacked) ~4yrs old
Phone line : connected
Software version: 6.02-01-2-351
Internal temp : 41 C (normal)

My unit started out rebooting, but now it will freeze up ( stuck on a frame of the programming) and I have to turn off the power strip, wait and then turn the power back on to get it to reboot. I was out of town today and it stayed frozen on a program for nearly 7 hours. I guess if I didn't reset the power to the unit it would stay frozen indefinitely. It doesn't seem to matter if I'm watching a recorded program or live tv. I was thinking the harddrive was going bad, but now I'm not so sure. It is going to this freeze frame mode several times a day. I have a SDVR40 still in the box that I was going to connect and just buy a upgrade kit to enlarge the hard drive, but it sounds like my problem is similiar to everyone elses. Do I need to wait on a software upgrade or does this sound like a hard drive failure? 

Thanks


----------



## dtremain

Tider said:


> I'm not sure I'm having the same problem everyone else is having, but it sure sounds similiar.
> 
> I have a SD-DVR120 (unhacked) ~4yrs old
> Phone line : connected
> Software version: 6.02-01-2-351
> Internal temp : 41 C (normal)
> 
> My unit started out rebooting, but now it will freeze up ( stuck on a frame of the programming) and I have to turn off the power strip, wait and then turn the power back on to get it to reboot. I was out of town today and it stayed frozen on a program for nearly 7 hours. I guess if I didn't reset the power to the unit it would stay frozen indefinitely. It doesn't seem to matter if I'm watching a recorded program or live tv. I was thinking the harddrive was going bad, but now I'm not so sure. It is going to this freeze frame mode several times a day. I have a SDVR40 still in the box that I was going to connect and just buy a upgrade kit to enlarge the hard drive, but it sounds like my problem is similiar to everyone elses. Do I need to wait on a software upgrade or does this sound like a hard drive failure?
> 
> Thanks


Sorry to say, no this isn't what everyone else is experiencing. Sounds like your hard drive is pretty well shot.


----------



## kingtony

Tider,

I have the exact same thing happening to one of my HDVR2's. I have already replaced the hard drive and the reboots and freezing continues The only thing that will get it running again is pull the power plug. I have to do this at least once a day to get it to run. Most of the time it will get suck on the Powering on screen or sometimes the almost there screen requiring another power cycle to get it to come all the way up.


----------



## lmiskowicz

Keeping this bumped as my series 2 DT that is less than 2 months old is continuously rebooting/freezing as well. I am to the point of sending it back if that is what is needed. =/


----------



## John T Smith

>series 2 DT that is less than 2 months old 

Since the DirecTv Tivo line has not been made in about (over?) a year, you might explain how you have one that is "less than 2 months old" and where you bought it, as well as the exact brand and model

It is certainly possible that a "new" piece of electronic equipment has a fault right out of the box... but more information would be good


----------



## drew2k

I'm betting lmiskowicz is talking about a stand-alone TiVo S2 DT (Dual Tuner) model ... not an integrated DirecTV-TiVo model. There have been reports in the TiVo forums of the SA models also rebooting, but it's possible a search turned on "rebooting" turned up THIS thread.

lmiskowicz - if you do have a stand-alone S2 DT TiVo, you may want to look in the TiVo Coffee House forum for threads specific to your model.


----------



## rcw119

My DVR2 had the Season Pass problem and rebooting... Tonight, it rebooted twice in a row while I was trying to watch a recorded show...


----------



## dtremain

rcw119 said:


> My DVR2 had the Season Pass problem and rebooting... Tonight, it rebooted twice in a row while I was trying to watch a recorded show...


Could be your hard drive going. Keep an eye on it.


----------



## Rhughes

rcw119 said:


> My DVR2 had the Season Pass problem and rebooting... Tonight, it rebooted twice in a row while I was trying to watch a recorded show...


Just as another data point, two weeks ago, our R10 and DSR708 had the season pass problem and each were rebooting at least once a day (at the worst possible times.) Whatever was done, neither of them have rebooted or had a season pass problem since. They now work perfectly.


----------



## HarryD

I have had my DSR7000 reboot twice in the last two weeks.


----------



## krdz1

I don't understand, how could a tivo be getting hacked into, 2 nights in a row i was watching my tivo around 2 am or so, and it shut down on me and re booted, If it's still doing it I haven't noticed. I have a hd direttv dual tuner tivo. thanks


----------



## roehrle

I went a couple days after phoning in without rebooting but yesterday it rebooted again 3 times that I know of during the day.
Is there a difference between the rebooting that has been happening and another way to be sure the new download has been installed?? Should I do a reset ??


----------



## dtremain

roehrle said:


> Is there a difference between the rebooting that has been happening and another way to be sure the new download has been installed?? Should I do a reset ??


Again, there is no "new download." Directv has stopped including the "enhancement" to the guide code that was causing the problem.

If you have phoned in and re-booted and are still getting a lot of random reboots, the likelihood is quite high that you are having an unrelated problem.


----------



## rifleman69

HR10-250, usually about 2-3 times a week. Most of the time it's rebooting when no one is watching.

Finding both tuners on the same channel, and the cursor isn't on the wishlist where I usually leave it.


----------



## John T Smith

List of Possible Hard Drive Problems in message#2
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=335120


----------



## Rudy1957

Just started having this problem yesterday on one of my HDVR2's. Initially thought maybe it was early hard drive failure (<1 year old 250gb drive) until I noticed the telltale cessation of indexing shortly after a service data download.

DTV says there is nothing they can do, and that their fix of 1/15 solved the issue as far as they're concerned. I'm guessing the "fix" caused my problem, as I was problem free during the initial flurry of problems.

They say I can hope that the next service data download I get somehow fixes it, but they say there's no new fix going out. All they want to do is send me another box, but I'm just going to assemble another Tivo replacement instead. Highly unsatisfactory.


----------



## bjstewa

Rudy1957 said:


> Just started having this problem yesterday on one of my HDVR2's. Initially thought maybe it was early hard drive failure (<1 year old 250gb drive) until I noticed the telltale cessation of indexing shortly after a service data download.
> 
> DTV says there is nothing they can do, and that their fix of 1/15 solved the issue as far as they're concerned. I'm guessing the "fix" caused my problem, as I was problem free during the initial flurry of problems.
> 
> They say I can hope that the next service data download I get somehow fixes it, but they say there's no new fix going out. All they want to do is send me another box, but I'm just going to assemble another Tivo replacement instead. Highly unsatisfactory.


I'm still having reboots on and HDVR2 as well. Mine never really went away. I replaced the hard drive less then a month ago. I was going to try to swap out a power supply next, but they are $50 at Weaknees so I was just going to pick up a Series 2 on flea-bay since it looks like they are pretty much interchangeable.

Please repost if you have any success or get any new info, and I'll do the same.

ben


----------



## John73

I also had problems with a HDVR2 that was freezing up and rebooting.

I swapped it out with another receiver and assumed it was a bad drive or some other malfunction with the HDVR2.

Called Directv and explained to them what was happening. They did not mention anything about other people with similar problems.

They agreed to replace the drive as I have the Protection Plan.

So I am patiently waiting for the new receiver.


----------



## John T Smith

>They did not mention anything about other people with similar problems

Which means just about nothing at all... during the "data storm" of a few weeks ago, when literally hundreds of people who posted here (and who knows how many others, who don't do the Internet or who did not find this forum) the almost universal report was that the 1st and even 2nd level DirecTv CSR's said nobody else was having problems... and usually offered to send their "better" R15 as a replacement

>Protection Plan... So I am patiently waiting for the new receiver

You will very likely receive the R15, which is DTV's brand of DVR, not a Tivo

But... you MAY be lucky and receive another DTivo


----------



## John73

John,

I received an R10.

I guess I got lucky.


----------



## Squeezemetwice

Some models will constantly reboot because of the latest software update. I called Direct and complained and they sent me the newest box at no charge. This of course will be problematic for hacked boxes.


----------



## ttodd1

Huh?


----------



## bjstewa

Just another update...

I'm still getting reboots on my HDVR2. Not every day, but probably 5 days a week. I replaced the HD over a month ago, because I just assumed it was starting to fail due to age. I then found out about the widespread problems and I waited for all the "fixes" from D* to come through, but my reboots continued.

Since most other people's systems seem to have gotten better, I was thinking I might still have a hardware issue, so a few days ago, I replaced the power supply.

And the reboots just keep on comin'!

My unit is either still struggling with a software issue or else I have some yet unidentified hardware problem (maybe a bad motherboard?). Either way, I am done cracking it open for a while. I'll just live with the problem I guess.

Ben


----------



## scottjf8

I had a theory on mine - let me run it by you.

On all of my rebooting Tivo's, I have an auto-record WL named "poker" - I wonder if it's causing the reboots...?

I removed it and havent' had a reboot since, but mine were sporadic.

Do you have something similar?


----------



## bjstewa

scottjf8 said:


> I had a theory on mine - let me run it by you.
> 
> On all of my rebooting Tivo's, I have an auto-record WL named "poker" - I wonder if it's causing the reboots...?
> 
> I removed it and havent' had a reboot since, but mine were sporadic.
> 
> Do you have something similar?


I have a couple auto records set up but not with "Poker". I'll try taking them out to see what happens. There was another theory in January about the network season passes causing problems too.

I will try just about anything to fix it. I tried the R15 for about a week... what a nightmare. The broken Tivo is still way better than the D* model.

It's just strange though because I also have an SD-DVR40 to and they are supposed to be identical on the inside. That's why I keep leaning towards a hardware problem. But I am not changing any more parts unless I have a pretty good idea what the culprit is.

Ben


----------



## scottjf8

bjstewa said:


> I have a couple auto records set up but not with "Poker". I'll try taking them out to see what happens.


Do that and let me know, I'm interested to see if my theory is right on, or if I'm full of crap as usual


----------



## roehrle

I also have a SD DVR-40 thats been re-booting. I generally watch TV from about 7 to 11PM with out rebooting but I generally have to reset my 30 sec skip every day. I bought a new HD but I'm still not sure that is the problem. 
Just what is auto-record WL named "poker"


----------



## John T Smith

>Just what is auto-record WL named "poker"

A Wish List recording with the word poker

If I understand what the OP is saying about that (I do SP's but not WL's) he thinks that the word poker is trying to record "something" that is causing his particular problem... maybe a channel he doesn't receive... and that is causing a restart when the software is not able to handle the exception


----------



## scottjf8

John T Smith said:


> >Just what is auto-record WL named "poker"
> 
> A Wish List recording with the word poker
> 
> If I understand what the OP is saying about that (I do SP's but not WL's) he thinks that the word poker is trying to record "something" that is causing his particular problem... maybe a channel he doesn't receive... and that is causing a restart when the software is not able to handle the exception


In fact, bsnelson said he's heard that if it matches a PPV, that might do it as well.

Right, create a wishlist named poker, set it to autorecord, and keep all (if you have the HDD space)


----------



## Rudy1957

I gave up waiting and assembled a new unit from a Phillips 704 shell I had in storage as a spare, putting a new hard drive in and instantcaking and networking it. It's working flawlessly.

I used the access card from my old unit in the new one, but still have the old one hooked up in order to be able to watch the content. Once that unit was off the live feed, it has worked flawlessly and hasn't rebooted even once. Proof that this is a software problem, not a hardware issue. I use an old dead card in it to get rid of the annoying "insert access card" tag.

Anyone still having reboot problems might want to try taking their access card out for a while to see if there's some goofy code now embedded in the card that is causing the reboots. If so, maybe getting a new access card from DTV could be a solution. If not, maybe decommissioning and then recommissioning the machine via DTV would somehow get the bad code out. 

It's gotta be something like this, as both my old and new machines are now working fine. It's possible that moving my card from one machine to another caused the bad to get overwritten by DTV. Worth a shot. 

I'm disinclined to go through the process with DTV myself because the new machine's drive is superior to the old one. But maybe once I burn off the content from the old one (months away) I'll give it a shot.


----------



## Daniel

I tried deleting all of the auto-record wishlists from my two HDVR2s that are rebooting several times a day and while it did seem to help, it did not completely solve the problem. Both of the HDVR2s are still rebooting daily, but at what seems like less frequently. 

At this point I think that I've tried everything except reseting everything.


----------



## presydent

My original Tivo Series 1 is now defective. Was watching a pre-recorded show when the picture froze; could not move it forward/back, and then the unit powered down, a few seconds later the message, Welcome, powering up is on the screen and never gets any further. I believe it's a hard disk drive, catastrophic error and probably needs to be replaced. Can anyone out there recommend a Tivo repair service that is competent, reliable, and reasonable? If so, please provide their contact info as well as how they charge for service. Tnx.


----------



## John T Smith

I believe forum sponser http://www.weaknees.com/ has a repair service

You might go to their web page to look


----------



## Daniel

Well, the 6.2a release didn't solve the rebooting problem on my two HDVR2. They are still rebooting several times a day, usually in sync with each other. But whatever it is isn't affecting my older Phillips box. I've tried all of the tricks: manually rebooting, manually dialing in, removing all of the auto-record wishlists. The problem started about the time that DirecTV changed the guide data back to the original stream. So, I'm at a loss...


----------



## HobsonDrake

Just wanted to add this to the mix. I noticed that both my DTivos are now having artifacting problems that never happeded before all this reboot problem showed up. (OK So I did see it sometimes, but those were from rain clouds) Is this showing up on everyones systems?


----------



## drew2k

Around 9:20 tonight one of my HR10s stopped recording on each tuner, but it stayed on. I realized it was no longer recording, and quickly captured what was in the buffer by pressing RECORD on each tuner. But then the remote stopped responding completely. At 10, when both shows finished recording, the unit still wouldn't respond - not even to the front panel buttons.

After another 15 minutes, I finally pulled the plug and restarted it. Since then, it's now rebooting on its own approximately ever 25 minutes. I'm on my 3rd unassisted reboot now.

It's on the latest software - 6.3c. I received it a few days ago, but today was the first day I had problems.

What's the deal?!


----------



## PeteEggebeen

Hello,

I seem to be 'cursed' with rebooting...

I had an HDVR2 that had Instant Cake 6.2 and PVRnet on it and it kept on rebooting. I was to the point where I thought it must be a hard drive problem, so I took a seperate WD1200 drive, ran the extended tests on it which came up clean and then rebooted with this new drive. Still reboots multiple times per day. So I take the old maxtor 120 GB drive and do the maxtor utils to make sure it is OK and put the instant cake / pvrnet software on it and try again - still reboots multiple times per day. Then when trying to go back to the orginal fireball 40 GB drive, i bumped the notorious white ribbon cable of death and fry my tivo when I power it back up. 

So, i buy a different HDVR2 off of e-bay. I am able to get it on my account (whew), both tuners work and I think I am in heaven. (please note my access card from the first tivo has been put into this e-bay tivo). I do the first daily call and it upgrades my software from 6.2 to 6.2a. I do the reboot and guess what - it is rebooting on me?

Please note that this e-bay tivo has not been modified yet as far as I can tell. It has an original 40 GB hd in it and i have not modified it. 

Does anyone have any suggestions? Is this something DTV can help with?


Thanks...


----------



## Rudy1957

What's it going to take to convince people it's not a friggin' hard drive proplem?

Pete, see what happens when you do these steps independently:

1. Take the access card out for a while, at least until there's a reboot cycle or not.

2. Take the coax signal cables off the machine for a while.

3. Have DTV decommission/recommission the unit.

4. Have DTV send you a new replacement access card.

Somehow, we have to isolate the cause and DTV is of no help.


----------



## PeteEggebeen

I will try the steps you mention. For the access card removal. Should the unit be powered off when I take it out? I am assuming it should because otherwise the card could be damaged if you take it out while the machine is powered on.

I called DTV about the problem and they want me to do a clear and delete everything, check to make sure that there are no problems with incoming power due to loose power cable, bad surge protector etc. If this does not fix it (I would be suprised if it did) then they say they can send me a DTV DVR with no TiVo software (gag).



Thanks


----------



## drew2k

Pete - If you've been living with a reboot loop, try what I did: Go to Messages and Settings > Settings > Restart > and choose to restart the system. It sounds contradictory - that you'd force a reboot to stop it from rebooting - but in my case, that broke the cycle. After doing this, my HR10 hasn't rebooted since Thursday evening.


----------



## roehrle

I too have been having re-boots and I don't believe it is the HD although I bought a new one that I haven't installed yet. I just also bought a new UPS and didn't have a re-boot for about 20 hours now. Normally I would have had several over night. Twice last night while watching TV the screen went black and I thought, O no here we go again, but it came back on in about a second. I never saw this happen before and I don't know if the UPS had something to do with it.. I'm keeping my fingers crossed and I'll report back one way or the other in a day or two.


----------



## Rudy1957

Pete, unfortunately replacement is their stock solution to get us out of their hair. Unacceptable. I take my card out of running machines all the time when they're powered on, never a damage problem. If you don't have it in during a power-up cycle, it won't boot properly. Also check to see when the machine last indexed. The cessation of indexing is a key symptom and causes the machine to work harder.

Roehrle may be onto something. Maybe the software problem is somehow causing a power use spike that overwhelms the power supply, but is salvaged by the UPS. Hope his test works.

It's clear that it is something in the stream, as my HDVR2 has worked perfectly since I took it off line.


----------



## roehrle

Sorry to report that the UPS didn't solve my re-booting. It did go a little over 24 hrs before re-booting and then it did it several times between 4 and 7:30 PM EST.
Question.
I have a R15 that isn't re-booting. Is it possible to exchange access card between my Sd-DVR40 that is re-booting and the R15. That may resolve if it is a card problem ???


----------



## Rudy1957

I believe you'd have to get DTV's blessing to exchange the access cards since they're married to the receiver. I think the preferable route would be to ask DTV for a new card for the bad receiver.

I don't think it's a card problem per se, since I took my card from my bad receiver and am using it successfully in the new. But it's possible that the re-initialization of the card did the trick.


----------



## Cedric

Like others, my HDVR2 has been rebooting at least once a day (have to reset 30 sec skip), but this morning it is stuck in a reboot loop. 

It won't get past the "Powering up.." message without a power interruption and starting to power up again. It's not stuck on the "Powering up" message; it just that the power is restarted every 60 - 90 seconds. 

Normally I would suspect a bad power supply, but with the software problems being reported here, I don't know.


----------



## 15968

My 3 Zippered DTivos have all started rebooting again. Seems to have started this past week and I'm getting multiple reboots a day on all 3. I had this same issue last December and into January and then it stopped. Now its back. Has the enhanced guide data been put back in the stream? I took out the line to enable /var/log/tvlog in January, so its not that file filling with errors. I can't believe all 3 would develop hardware problems all on the same day. Geez...

So anyone with 6.2a, are you seeing reboots? Looking now to see what it takes to upgrade a Zippered box to 6.2a hoping this clears the problem.


----------



## dtremain

MikeF said:


> So anyone with 6.2a, are you seeing reboots?


No. Unmodified, unhacked Sammy 100 with 6.2a. I was having re-boots in January when everyone else was.


----------



## roehrle

MikeF I see that your 3 Hughes are re-booting. I have a SD DVR40 that is re-booting. I wonder if it can be only certain boxes that are re-booting ???


----------



## PeteEggebeen

For what it is worth, here is what has been happening to my HDVR2 (running 6.2a):

2-24 08:32 - rebooted, back up at 08:40 (8 minutes)
2-24 10:27 - rebooted, back up at 10:34 (7 minutes)
2-24 10:45 - called DTV and they had me to a 'clear and delete everything'.
2-24 15:00 - 'Clear and delete everything' finishes (approximate time)
2-25 12:03 - rebooted, back up at 12:10 (7 minutes)
2-25 23:00 - rebooted, back up at 23:24 (24 minutes seems long....)
2-26 02:05 - rebooted, back up at 02:11 (6 minutes)
2-26 02:22 - rebooted, back up at 02:28 (6 minutes)

I have been monitoring the reboots by recording channel 201 for 24 hours. If I remove the access card like Rudy1957 suggests, I am assuming that I cannot watch / record any channels. Does anyone have a suggestion for monitoring for reboots if you cannot record? I suppose I could use the VCR to record the tivo, but that would be a giant pain to go thru the tape at FF looking for the reboot.


Thanks


----------



## roehrle

Hi Pete 
The fact that you have had 2 different same model boxes re-booting leaves me to believe it can only be one of two explanations. One you have a power line flucuation or maybe a problem in your signal coming from the antenna to your box.?? 
If I go to channel 490 & 491 I get 18 volts & 12 volts. Anybody know what these voltage should be ? 
My satellite signal is over 93% for both readings 

Another question> My software is 6.2-01-2-351
Most people seem to have 6.2a
Do I have old software ??


----------



## Daniel

Roehrle, they just sent out the 6.2a software last week. If you don't have it you probably will the next time you call in. It was mainly to fix the daylight savings time change.

Anyway, your assumption that it is the power supply or signal problem is exactly why some of us are getting fed up. There are too many of us still having identical problems for it to be anything other than a software problem that isn't getting fixed. But, for what it's worth, I've tried moving one of my problem HDVR2 boxes and I'm still having the rebooting problem. Also, my series 1 Phillips box is not having any problems, which it should if it was a power supply problem.

But, thanks for the input anyway.


----------



## PeteEggebeen

I thought to check the system information screen after the last two reboots and added the what I found to my timeline:

2-24 08:32 - rebooted, back up at 08:40 (8 minutes)
2-24 10:27 - rebooted, back up at 10:34 (7 minutes)
2-24 10:45 - called DTV and they had me to a 'clear and delete everything'.
2-24 15:00 - 'Clear and delete everything' finishes (approximate time)
2-25 12:03 - rebooted, back up at 12:10 (7 minutes)
*2-25 22:18 - GC last ran*
2-25 23:00 - rebooted, back up at 23:24 (24 minutes seems long....)
2-26 02:05 - rebooted, back up at 02:11 (6 minutes)
2-26 02:22 - rebooted, back up at 02:28 (6 minutes)
*2-26 06:36 - indexing last ran
2-26 07:57 - I did a 'restart' per drew2k's advice
2-26 09:13 - indexing last ran
2-26 09:59 - rebooted, back up at 10:07*

It seems odd to me that about 47 minutes after GC on the 25th there is a reboot and about 47 minutes after the indexing this morning there is another reboot. Also, apparently the 'restart' did not fix my problem.

As for power being a problem, I have a surge protector that has about 8 devices plugged into it, including a Hughes GXCEBOTD (series 1 dtivo) and that tivo isn't having the reboot issues. In fact, this one only started after 6.2 software was installed. I could try splitting the electrical load across another circuit. I am trying to not make too many changes too quickly so that I can isolate the actual fix (if I ever find one).


----------



## roehrle

Could this be a Hughes box problem.???
Looks like a lot of people with Hughes boxes are having re-boot problems.


----------



## Rudy1957

A lot of people have Hughes boxes, is why. The Phillips boxes are identical to the Hughes boxes, just with a different faceplate.

You guys are wasting your time thinking it's a hardware problem. It's something in the stream or signal that is causing the spasticness.


----------



## roehrle

Yes Rudy, you are probably right But why aren't all boxes effected ??


----------



## technojunkie

Count me in on the rebooting issue. I'm up to 6.2a on HDVR2 and have lost all the guide data that the Season Passes use. Nobody seems to have a good idea as to what is happening. Calling D is always a waste of time. They need to starighten this out ASAP. My wife is starting to think I caused this and may be calling a divorce lawyer as I type. HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## John T Smith

>why aren't all boxes effected ?? 

If the current (old, again?) problem is something in the data stream, my GUESS is that it is some combination of factors... Season Pass and/or Wish List and/or ??? that is causing the problem... which therefore does not cause problems for everyone


----------



## phox_mulder

DirecTV is futzing with the guide data again.

I've caught a couple of "won't record because someone in the household changed the season pass" SP's that weren't going to record.

Just my R10 has seen them pop back up, the HR10-250 seems to be fine, for now.


phox


----------



## gamo62

My system just started the rebooting phenom 2 days ago. First the live stream was extemely pixelated and would pause and jump. Last night it started to reboot and reboot. The "Welcome" screen going on and off. The lights on the front would come on, go off...I replaced the HD with the stock drive and the same thing happened. Also, the HD does not spin up all of the time.

Finally, nothing is on the screen. Looks like it might be a P/S in my case. Time to D/L tonight's 24.


----------



## vector1701

I had my first reboot around 8:00 Sunday night (Feb 25). Right as we hit 8:00, poof, my first ever reboot on my R10. Not too happy to be in this group....


----------



## Cedric

I took my HDRV2 out of service due to the continuous reboots. I have a backup R10 and set it up. After a day it has 6.1.01 and has not rebooted once. 

I'm really getting tired of this. I couldn't keep the Hughes unit up long enough to even get 6.2a so I don't know if that would help. 

I have 2 other S2 Dtivos; a RCA 39 and a Samsung. Both upgraded to 6.2a fine and have rebooted in the past, but nowhere near the every 2 mins that the Hughes was running . 

The HDRV2 is the largest of the bunch at 256 hours. The RCA is at 212 and the Samsung is unaltered. Could this be related to large capacity (aka hacked) dtivos?


----------



## 15968

Cedric said:


> The HDRV2 is the largest of the bunch at 256 hours. The RCA is at 212 and the Samsung is unaltered. Could this be related to large capacity (aka hacked) dtivos?


Mine are stock Hughes drives (I haven't upgraded the HD yet. Was planning on doing that this month). 2 with 80GB and 1 with 40GB. All 3 reboot at least once a day (and most of the time more like at least 3 times a day from what I can tell). Very, very frustrating...

A friend of mine joked that he wondered if DTV spiked the signal so us DTiVo users could quit bragging to the R15 people... Sad thing is, I can almost see that... When I called in early January (late December? I don't remember now) about this, DTV was very quick to offer me superior R15 replacements that weren't experiencing this issue... Not trying to start a conspiracy, but there ya go


----------



## PeteEggebeen

My HDVR2 rebooted again about 4 times last night. I currently have the stock hard drive in it and no season passes or wishlists. I did the 'clear and delete everything' for the DTV CSR on Saturday and have been monitoring the reboot frequency since and also making slight changes to see if I can get the reboots to stop. I have changed to a different power source and done a 'restart' with no success. Three times I have noticed that about 45 minutes after a GC or Indexing the reboot occurrs. 

Also this morning, I ran into an interesting space issue. I have been recording channel 201 for 24 hrs at a time to be able to know when the reboots happen. I wrote down all the reboots from last night, deleted all the show peices so that nothing was left in the now playing list, and then I could NOT tape the next episode because it said I didn't have enough space. I wanted to record a 24 hour show (which I have been doing every day since saturday afternoon) and it would not let me on a system with approx 35 hrs of recording capacity. I wonder if the reboots are causing another problem, or perhaps I just need GC to run again.


----------



## bjstewa

PeteEggebeen said:


> Hello,
> 
> I seem to be 'cursed' with rebooting...
> 
> I had an HDVR2 that had Instant Cake 6.2 and PVRnet on it and it kept on rebooting. I was to the point where I thought it must be a hard drive problem, so I took a seperate WD1200 drive, ran the extended tests on it which came up clean and then rebooted with this new drive. Still reboots multiple times per day. So I take the old maxtor 120 GB drive and do the maxtor utils to make sure it is OK and put the instant cake / pvrnet software on it and try again - still reboots multiple times per day. Then when trying to go back to the orginal fireball 40 GB drive, i bumped the notorious white ribbon cable of death and fry my tivo when I power it back up.
> 
> So, i buy a different HDVR2 off of e-bay. I am able to get it on my account (whew), both tuners work and I think I am in heaven. (please note my access card from the first tivo has been put into this e-bay tivo). I do the first daily call and it upgrades my software from 6.2 to 6.2a. I do the reboot and guess what - it is rebooting on me?
> 
> Please note that this e-bay tivo has not been modified yet as far as I can tell. It has an original 40 GB hd in it and i have not modified it.
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions? Is this something DTV can help with?
> 
> Thanks...


This sounds EXACTLY like my situation. I also have a HDVR2 that won't stop rebooting. I've tried the new HDD, and a new power supply too. I finally gave up as I was able to get an R10. My SD-DVR40 has had no problems. It is either a software issue that is still affecting specific models, or I have an unidentified hardware problem.

Either way, the clear and delete everything and the restarts did not help me at all.

bjs


----------



## PeteEggebeen

bjstewa said:


> This sounds EXACTLY like my situation. I also have a HDVR2 that won't stop rebooting. I've tried the new HDD, and a new power supply too. I finally gave up as I was able to get an R10. My SD-DVR40 has had no problems. It is either a software issue that is still affecting specific models, or I have an unidentified hardware problem.
> 
> Either way, the clear and delete everything and the restarts did not help me at all.
> 
> bjs


Thanks for your input.

Fortunately I have a series 1 GXCEBOT that is running just fine, so I have time to try to isolate the problem. Last night I tried swapping in another access card (one that came with the HDVR2 i purchased off of e-bay) and it still rebooted at least twice between 2-27 @ 18:00 and 2-28 @ 06:00. I have now removed the access card completely to see if that has an effect. If not, I will know for sure that on my particular HDVR2, it is not an access card problem.

I figure my options are:
1 - for about $20 get a DTV DVR w/o Tivo and hacks
2 - buy a series 1 SAT-T60 or GXCEBOT from e-bay for about $75 shipped
3 - keep futzing with this one in hopes there is a solution at some point.

I am seriously considering options 1 and 2 at this point


----------



## roehrle

Just wondering if it will help to generate a list of changes people have made that haven't work to eliminate the re-booting
On my SD-dvr-40 made the following changes without success
Bought 300 Watt UPS for unit
changed all SP's to manual
Keep minimum storage of programs on DVR


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## Rudy1957

Pete, if you take the DTV DVR, it shouldn't cost you anything. But you should be aware that it would start the clock again on a new 2-year commitment, which reduces your negotiating power later should you ever want a big subsidy for HD or something.

Don't forget to try leaving the signal feeds off for a while too. It's possible something in the incoming signal that is stimulating the reboot. Even if you're not paying attention to the machine continuously, the easy way to tell if it has rebooted or not is to set the 30-sec. skip feature and see if it's still working later. If the machine reboots, it clears the 30-sec. skip.

Last, I think you had to do this when you did your clear-and-delete, but try re-running guided setup so there are no artifact settings that are somehow causing a software burp.

I don't blame you for not wanting to futz around forever with this, and I went the new Tivo assembly route using a spare box, a new drive, and instantcake and PTVNet. No problems since, knock on wood.

My other HDVR2 (w/large drive) and R-10s (stock) still are showing no symptoms, either, so it is a most bizarre situation. Unfortunately, based on the continuing series of new reports we are seeing here, it's seemingly like Russian Roulette.


----------



## PeteEggebeen

Thanks for you input Rudy...

I mentioned the $20 for a DTV DVR because the CSR i talked to said that it would be $19.95 for shipping and I may / may not have to sign up for a 2 year commitment. My feeling is that they would try to have me to theh 2 year commit with the basic package because I have the old 'select choice' package and they may see this as a way to make me get to total choice.

I agree that I need to remove the satellite feeds to see that effect. The troubling thing is that if the feed is removed and the problem goes away, what do I do? I would just know that it is probably enhanced guide data causing the problem.

When I did the 'clear and delete everything on Saturday the 24th I went thru the guided setup. Again, my machine has no season passes, wishlists and there is nothing in the to do list. 

I think I am going to pursue getting another working S1 DTivo to balance the workload from my GXCEBOT so that I can keep the whole family happy while I play with the HDVR2.


Thanks!


----------



## Daniel

I just wish that someone at DirecTV or TiVo would just let us know that they are working on the problem. Or are they??? I'm more than willing to wait for a solution, if I know it's coming, but just being left out here in the dark is a pain. I don't have a service commitment so I've already been calling around for options. I have plenty of choices in my neighborhood (TimeWarner, Verizon FOIS, Grande Comm FOIS and soon AT&T U-verse) but the one I will NOT choose is DirecTV with non-TiVo box.


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## goony

If this rebooting issue (and the missed recordings problem) is due to the DirecTV resumption of "a new format for guide data", why in the @#(*#@*(&@# didn't they wait until most boxes have received the new V6.a version to be able to handle it? Heck, the V6.1a for the R10s was just now made available!


----------



## PeteEggebeen

Rudy1957 said:


> What's it going to take to convince people it's not a friggin' hard drive proplem?
> 
> Pete, see what happens when you do these steps independently:
> 
> 1. Take the access card out for a while, at least until there's a reboot cycle or not.
> 
> 2. Take the coax signal cables off the machine for a while.
> 
> 3. Have DTV decommission/recommission the unit.
> 
> 4. Have DTV send you a new replacement access card.
> 
> Somehow, we have to isolate the cause and DTV is of no help.


I left the access card out from 2-28 at 06:45 until 3-1 at 06:15 and there were no reboots during that time (I verified this by leaving the tuner on channel 202 thinking that if a reboot happened, it would try to tune in channel 201). During this time it did successfully to a service call at 12:49 AM, a service download completed at 03:00 AM, GC was done at 1:15 AM and Indexing at 04:38 AM.

I told the HDVR2 to record several shows today so that I would know if it reboots again. So far all I know is that without a tuner card, the reboots stop. Without a tuner card it is also as useful as a doorstop. 

If I get reboots again, I will try option 2 next.


----------



## bjstewa

PeteEggebeen said:


> I left the access card out from 2-28 at 06:45 until 3-1 at 06:15 and there were no reboots during that time (I verified this by leaving the tuner on channel 202 thinking that if a reboot happened, it would try to tune in channel 201). During this time it did successfully to a service call at 12:49 AM, a service download completed at 03:00 AM, GC was done at 1:15 AM and Indexing at 04:38 AM.
> 
> I told the HDVR2 to record several shows today so that I would know if it reboots again. So far all I know is that without a tuner card, the reboots stop. Without a tuner card it is also as useful as a doorstop.
> 
> If I get reboots again, I will try option 2 next.


Interestingly enough, mine has not rebooted once since I unplugged it 4 days ago. I have not thrown it against the wall yet though. I expect that will be a permanent fix.

Ben


----------



## Rudy1957

OK, Pete, that's great news if continued tests show the card's at fault. Get DTV to send you a replacement card. First, they might want to try recommissioning the card remotely to remarry it to the system, which could work.


----------



## PeteEggebeen

Rudy1957 said:


> OK, Pete, that's great news if continued tests show the card's at fault. Get DTV to send you a replacement card. First, they might want to try recommissioning the card remotely to remarry it to the system, which could work.


For 'continued tests' do you mean repeating the test where i removed the access card and no reboots occurred, or a different test with the access card?

BTW - when I put the access card back in, the reboots started again - go figure.


----------



## goony

*To anyone reporting a problem in this thread: Please include the version of your units' software - it can be found in the System Information screen in the setup menus.*

The relevant part will be something like this:

V6.1 (R10 box)
V6.1a (R10 box)

V6.2 (other S2 DTivo)
V6.2a (other S2 DTivo)

V6.3a (HR10 HD DTivo)
V6.3b (HR10 HD DTivo)
V6.3c (HR10 HD DTivo)


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## Rudy1957

Pete, yes, that's what I mean, as well as the other isolation tests. Sounds like card replacement or recommissioning should be your next step.

Goony, there haven't been any reports of improvement after the new "a" software has been out, and the problems started well before the "a" came out, so I don't understand your point. I think it's irrelevant, especially since there was no new software generation that prompted the problems. Please elucidate.


----------



## PeteEggebeen

Rudy1957 said:


> Pete, yes, that's what I mean, as well as the other isolation tests. Sounds like card replacement or recommissioning should be your next step.
> 
> Goony, there haven't been any reports of improvement after the new "a" software has been out, and the problems started well before the "a" came out, so I don't understand your point. I think it's irrelevant, especially since there was no new software generation that prompted the problems. Please elucidate.


I have a card from my old SAT-T60 that I could use - I wonder if they would be willing to 'reactivate' that card into my HDVR2? Hmmmm...


----------



## JimSpence

Only a DirecTV CSR can answer that question!  Of course, you may have to play CSR roulette.


----------



## goony

Rudy1957 said:


> Goony, there haven't been any reports of improvement after the new "a" software has been out, and the problems started well before the "a" came out, so I don't understand your point. I think it's irrelevant, especially since there was no new software generation that prompted the problems. Please elucidate.


Sure.

There were no _widespread_ reboot issues with the Tivo-based DVRs (other than hardware failures) until DirecTV began messing with the format of the guide data. After a month of complaints, they seemingly reverted to the old guide data format and the reboot issues ceased.

A recent patch version for SD DTivos (V6.1a for R10s, V6.2a for other SD DTivos) to fix the upcoming new Daylight Saving Time rules was rumored to also contain a fix for the guide data compatibility issue.

If a significant number of people are again beginning to compain of spontaneous reboots I'd like to know (as a data point) if they are seeing them on boxes that contain the most recent patch from DirecTV. I'm not sure why you feel knowing this version information is irrelevant.


----------



## PeteEggebeen

Hey gooney - I am running 6.2a on an unhacked HDVR2 with no season passes or wishlists and an empty to do list. I did a clear and delete everything on Saturday 2-24 and it just keeps rebooting. I have noticed that the reboots happen primarily between 10pm and 4am. I think it is the guide data because it makes sense that they would be pushing more of it down during those hours.


----------



## goony

*PeteEggebeen*, thank you for posting that.

I now have some additional data with which to weigh my decision on whether to upgraded my "enhanced" boxes with V6.2a, or simply deal with the issue of "funny timestamps" for 3 weeks.

It's looking less likely that I am going to plunge into V6.2a... I think I will wait and see what others report about the V6.2a release. Other than the DST issue, I'd be perfectly happy to continue on V6.2.


----------



## rfrey

Anyone plung into 6.2a yet? My TiVo is rebooting again...


----------



## Daniel

I have 6.2a on both my HDVR2 boxes and the rebooting is only getting worse. I may have to break down and call Dish Network if this isn't fixed soon since my housemate is about to kill someone (and I don't want it to be me!)

Also, we tried to pull the access cards and sat cables to see if the reboots would stop long enough to watch some of the partial shows that have been piling up, but the reboots continued.


----------



## phox_mulder

Daniel said:


> I may have to break down and call Dish Network if this isn't fixed soon since my housemate is about to kill someone


Might get a little faster service if you called DirecTV. 

Not much faster though.

phox


----------



## kenr

Daniel said:


> I have 6.2a on both my HDVR2 boxes and the rebooting is only getting worse. I may have to break down and call Dish Network if this isn't fixed soon since my housemate is about to kill someone (and I don't want it to be me!)


But you had reboots both before and after release 6.2a?


----------



## Daniel

kenr said:


> But you had reboots both before and after release 6.2a?


Yes. And they are getting worse. I'm estimating that they both reboot at least 20 times a day now.


----------



## roehrle

J got through last night without a reboot. I think mine have slowed a bit over the last week but I'm still getting them. Been holding off installing my new 80Gb drive


----------



## John T Smith

How old are the units, and have you ever replaced the hard drives?

List of Possible Hard Drive Problems in message#2
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=335120


----------



## Daniel

John, it is not a hard drive failure issue. I have two boxes that are, more often than not, rebooting in sync with each other. The rebooting started on the very same day on both boxes. What are the chances that both hard drives fail on the same day? Other people have reported that they put in new hard drives and the rebooting continues. How could that be a hard drive failure issue?

But to answer your question, my HDVR2s are a couple of years old. One is unmodified and one had a new hard drive put in about six months ago.


----------



## Bizily

I had reboot and lockup problems all weekend, reminiscent of the upgrade to 6.3. I was surprised to see that I am now up to 6.3c. Anybody else having problems with 6.3c?


----------



## John T Smith

>Anybody else having problems with 6.3c?

Since that is the HR10-250 software, you might check that forum

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=36


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## PeteEggebeen

Daniel said:


> Yes. And they are getting worse. I'm estimating that they both reboot at least 20 times a day now.


Suddenly my rebooting about 4 or 5 times per day (mainly between 10pm and 2am) doesn't seem so severe. 

Also, it is interesting that in my testing when I removed the access card the reboots stopped for me, however I had no season passes, no wishlists and nothing in my now playing list. My HDVR2 is running 6.2a and is unmodified. I am waiting for a new faceplate for my SAT-T60 so I can get that back up and running to replace the HDVR2 with the reboot option enabled.

I still have to try a different access card with DTV - maybe tonight.


----------



## TimeHorse

ebonovic said:


> Serious request here...
> 
> What units are you seeing rebooting on....
> 
> Please wait a second... I'll be right back with the poll.


When the U.S. President decided to muck with that awful Daylight Savings concept (why can't we just be on Daylight Savings time 365.2425 days of the year and be done with this setting clocks forward or back) *all* Windows PCs, *all* Macintoshes *and all* TiVos were forced to Software Patch and reboot.

That, by my estimates, means that 90+% of all computers in the U.S. -- if not the world -- just had to reboot on the whim of the U.S. President.

Anyway, I keep both my TiVos on UPSes so I don't see the rebooting much these days.

A cheep UPS is a TiVo-owner's best friend!


----------



## roehrle

Hi Pete
I have gone 2 days now without a re-boot...A new record for me and still counting
Hope this might be the end..


----------



## goony

TimeHorse said:


> When the U.S. President decided to muck with that awful Daylight Savings concept (why can't we just be on Daylight Savings time 365.2425 days of the year and be done with this setting clocks forward or back) *all* Windows PCs, *all* Macintoshes *and all* TiVos were forced to Software Patch and reboot.
> 
> That, by my estimates, means that 90+% of all computers in the U.S. -- if not the world -- just had to reboot on the whim of the U.S. President.


I hate to burst your politically-tinged bubble with the facts, but the US Senate dreamed this up as part of an energy package... if you want to blame the President for signing the measure into law, fine - but don't characterize it as his 'whim'.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Policy_Act_of_2005 for more info.

I too disagree with their mucking with the DST - it should have been left alone. My company is spending around $350K just to handle this crap.


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## roehrle

3 days and no re boot..... Got my fingers crosseed


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## TimeHorse

goony said:


> I hate to burst your politically-tinged bubble with the facts, but the US Senate dreamed this up as part of an energy package... if you want to blame the President for signing the measure into law, fine - but don't characterize it as his 'whim'.
> 
> See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Policy_Act_of_2005 for more info.
> 
> I too disagree with their mucking with the DST - it should have been left alone. My company is spending around $350K just to handle this crap.


Well, I wasn't trying to insult the President personally. Normally, when I think it is President Bush's fault, I call him by name. I only said U.S. President because I don't think of this as a Bushism -- I think Clinton could have done it too -- as much as a problem with regulating time by committee or fiat. After all, before Julius Caesar set the Leap Year to be every 3 years -- and then eventually every 4 -- the leap year (occurring on 30 February, the day after the last day of the year) was decided by Senatorial decree and generally on the basis of politics rather than the science and math behind the time interval of two consecutive Vernal Equinoxes. This lead to gross calendrical inaccuracies. Julius Caesar set the leap year to occur regularly and mathematically and that didn't change for over 1582 years.

In either case, I still think we should just get rid of Standard Time and only use Daylight Savings time, even in the Winter, since it seems like we spend more time in DST than Standard Time now anyway.


----------



## 15968

One of my DTivos seems much happier (haven't noticed a reboot on it for a few days). the other one though has gotten worse (rebooted 4 times in a span of 3 hours (prime time  ). What are others seeing?


----------



## Daniel

It's too early to tell, but over the past two days I've had fewer reboots. Just a couple of reboots a day. But I don't want to jinx it...


----------



## roehrle

Could it be----- 5 days and counting. No reboots. What are the odds now that I am out of the woods???


----------



## roehrle

5.5 days without a reboot and then I got 2 in about 4 hours. It was looking like finally the curse had ended. One thing that was strange is that during the 5.5 days I didn't have the screen that reports not phoning in in "X" number of days. Right after the reboot the notice started again about phoning in.. 
I don't have my tivo connected to the phone line. Is this a clue about what is happening ???


----------



## jhanson

I didn't read through this entire thread (sorry if this is a repeat from someone else), but I had two HDVR2 with brand new 250G seagate hard drives rebooting about the time frame everyone else started seeing this problem.

The problem has now gone away. The only thing I changed which may be coincidental is that I turned off automatically recording suggestions. When filling the entire hard drive with the extra recordings, the system seemed to be rebooting and a bit sluggish. Now that I've stopped the automatic recording, the unit hasn't rebooted at all.

Hope this helps...


----------



## txhokie

My original stock Hughes 40Gb DirecTivo with 6.2a software started rebooting intermittently several weeks ago. Then it got progressively worse and became a daily event. Before it rebooted and automatically booted back into Tivo. Over the weekend it just got stuck at the "Please wait" initial grey screen. I'd have to completely power down to get it to fully reboot. Even then I was only able to watch for 30 minutes before it would boot again. I called DTV and they had me nuke the system completely (took over 2 hrs). It came back up and ran ok for a day and then the next day went into boot mode again. I think some type of software update screwed it up. I called DTV back and they tell me the harddrive is bad. I'm thinking if the harddrive is toast it wouldn't boot into Tivo anymore would it? It worked ok for a day before some update in the middle of the night got it into the jacked up boot mode again - but then what do I know. They tried to push me on the new box with 2 years commitment but I declined. I had an old 1st generation Phillips DSR6000 that's been sitting in the closet past 2 years and dusted it out and put in back to use. It is so slow but still better than no Tivo.
So is there anything I can do with this Hughes Series 2 box that's out of commission?


----------



## John T Smith

List of Possible Hard Drive Problems in message#2
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=335120


----------



## Daniel

Well, as much as John would like us to buy the DirecTV line that these problems are caused by hard drive problems, I wouldn't believe it unless your TiVo is stuck on the grey "Welcome" screen. Too many people have been having these problems, the problem has been coming and going with changes to the guide data and continue EVEN WHEN THE HARD DRIVE HAS BEEN REPLACED.


----------



## John T Smith

Daniel said:


> Well, as much as John would like us to buy the DirecTV line that these problems are caused by hard drive problems


I'm not trying to sell any "line" at all

txhokie asked the question "if the harddrive is toast it wouldn't boot into Tivo anymore would it?" and I posted a link which contained a list of POSSIBLE hard drive problems... a list posted by someone else by the way

I don't know if txhokie's problem is hardware related or not... but information on POSSIBLE problems is always good to have


----------



## txhokie

I went thru pretty much all the steps there short of replacing the harddrive on the Hughes. I really didn't want to waste a lot of downtime and resource messing with backing up or replacing the drives and end up at the same place if it turns out to be a software or guide data update problem.


----------



## kenbarto

i purchased a samsung sirs 4120r on ebay and the description said that it reboots itself after a few hrs.. i plugged it in and it powered up and went through the set up... i am clearing and deleting everything now.. i need to activate it and update the software.. it has 6.2 something in it.. do you guys think it is the software?


----------



## John T Smith

kenbarto said:


> on ebay and the description said that it reboots itself after a few hrs


That COULD be related to the problem from last Dec/Jan with new guide data and old software, or it COULD be a hard drive about to fail

List of Possible Hard Drive Problems in message#2
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=335120


----------



## kenbarto

John T Smith said:


> That COULD be related to the problem from last Dec/Jan with new guide data and old software, or it COULD be a hard drive about to fail
> 
> List of Possible Hard Drive Problems in message#2
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=335120


the last update on software was december 16 2006... the last things recorded were the middle of december.. so it sounds like that might be the problem..

so what do i need to do now.. how can i update it? do i have to call direct tv and activate the reciever to let it update? or will it update if i just hook it up to a phone line and hook the sat line in's?

thanks


----------



## kenbarto

any help?


----------



## dtremain

kenbarto said:


> any help?


If it isn't activated, it has to be so before anything else is going to happen. It's not going to get anything except channel 100 if you don't activate it. It certainly is not going to download software updates.

I don't mean to come off as nasty, but why did you buy it when the description was so clear? It may well be the hard drive.


----------



## richdean

This started happening to my Phillips DSR6000 (3.5b-01-1-001) (Series 1) Wednesday... it just started rebooting every three minutes. Removed the phone line and it doesn't make a difference. Will try clearing it, but I just did this about three months ago... I can watch live TV or a recorded program (or record a program) for 3-4 minutes before it resets itself.


----------



## kenbarto

no offense taken.. i read here that there were alot of people who had this issue and updating it was usually fixing the problem.... but now it is cleaning and deleting.. and has been for quite a while


----------



## dtremain

kenbarto said:


> no offense taken..


Good, I can be quite undiplomatic, but it is rarely my intention. It was not here.  I do think that you need to activate it, download the newest software, and hope that that will resolve the issue. I'm not sure that it will because the "enhancement" that was causing the issue in December and January isn't there now, AFIK, although it will go back in when they can assume that everyone has the update.

But, who the heck knows.

Anyhow, I think your best bet might be to replace the hard drive yourself if all else fails. It's not something I've ever done, but a quick search in this forum should give you plenty of information about it.

Hey, it's a great "guy" project, anyway.


----------



## kenbarto

yes.. but this reciever hasn't been activated since dec.. so i think when this guy had the problem.. he just bought a new one... anyway.. i started to do the clean and delete and it went for about 36hrs.. i unplugged it and it restarted... i hope it will finish on its own.. i am going to let it go for a few days and see..


----------



## Rudy1957

Kenbarto, chances are that the previous owner did exactly as you guess. Or it could be the hard drive. No way to know until you place it in service.

There is no definitive cure yet, and it appears DTV doesn't really care or is stumped themselves as to what exactly is the problem. This thread has a lot of solutions that have been tried with varying success, so try them before you replace the hard drive if you're not in a big hurry to solve it -- it will take several days to see whether your reboot cycle comes back. But my best guess is that the process of re-activating the receiver may solve the problem by itself, for some mysterious reason. 

There is no evidence to date that the 6.2a software update includes a solution, but it could accidentally have a positive effect, as also could turning off Tivo suggestions, changing access cards, or running clear and delete. Trial and error is the only test.

If you're in a hurry, change the hard drive (or reformat the existing drive) and use a virgin image (like instantcake), not the image from the old drive (which should be viewed as "infected"). Then network it (using Zipper or PTVNet) so it doesn't phone home and invite software downloads which could mess it up. I'm not aware of any recurring problems after someone has taken this route.


----------



## kenbarto

thanks rudy.. i appreciate the reply.. im in no hurry.. i am going to use the tivo to replace the one in my bedroom which has a 35hr unit in it.. i hope you are right.. i don't have to activate it to complete the clear and delete do i?


----------



## dtremain

Rudy1957 said:


> There is no evidence to date that the 6.2a software update includes a solution


I disagree. There have been reports on this board from people who generally know what they're talking about due to reliable sources that it does.


----------



## kenbarto

so once i update it.. that could fix the problem?


----------



## John T Smith

kenbarto said:


> so once i update it.. that could fix the problem?


I have 3 boxes with 6.2a (2 RCA 80 and 1 Samsung 120) and one HR10-250 that is at 6.3c

I had restart problems with all of the boxes that were on 6.2 (no season passes on the HR10-250 since it is only to record movies) and have not noticed any problems since the 6.2a update

That is, of course, no gurantee that YOUR problem will be fixed, since very situation is different


----------



## kenbarto

well.. it has been doing a clean and delete for almost 72hrs.. is it safe to say it is toast?


----------



## de1946

Hi everyone,
I woke up Monday morning with the dreaded reboot issue. My system is the Hughes SD-DVR40. I have called DTV 5 times and they will not admit that they have a problem with this unit. They did offer to send me a replacement (theirs) for 20 bucks. 

They also said that they were severing ties with TIVO. That was an interesting comment. Made me wonder that they were trying to replace all TIVO related equipment, therefore the 20 dollar unit. Hmmmm!

So my question to all of you talented people is this. I have a bunch of woodworking shows on my hard drive that i was in the process of making DVD's so that I can free up disk space. So Is there a way to get the information off of the hard drive, since i can't get to the screen I need???? Thanks!


----------



## kenbarto

i had the same problem with my samsung.. but i purchased instantcake and reimaged the drive and it fixed the problem.. good luck


----------



## Rudy1957

de1946 said:


> Hi everyone,
> I woke up Monday morning with the dreaded reboot issue. My system is the Hughes SD-DVR40. I have called DTV 5 times and they will not admit that they have a problem with this unit. They did offer to send me a replacement (theirs) for 20 bucks.
> 
> They also said that they were severing ties with TIVO. That was an interesting comment. Made me wonder that they were trying to replace all TIVO related equipment, therefore the 20 dollar unit. Hmmmm!
> 
> So my question to all of you talented people is this. I have a bunch of woodworking shows on my hard drive that i was in the process of making DVD's so that I can free up disk space. So Is there a way to get the information off of the hard drive, since i can't get to the screen I need???? Thanks!


My HDVR2 unit stopped rebooting once I took the unit off service via DTV and disconnected the dish cables. Then I was able to watch recorded shows unimpaired. You might also get the same results by just pulling the card and/or cables and rebooting. It will look for the dish, but you can still get to the Now Playing list eventually.


----------



## PeteEggebeen

Here is what I did:

1- made sure all cables / connections are secure. I made sure the ide cable, the hd power cable, the white ribbon cable from the front panel and the white ribbon cable from the power supply to the mobo are all snug.

2 - I re-imaged the drive using InstantCake 6.2a

I have not had a reboot in over 24 hours and in the past it was rebooting about every four hours.


----------



## de1946

Rudy1957 said:


> My HDVR2 unit stopped rebooting once I took the unit off service via DTV and disconnected the dish cables. Then I was able to watch recorded shows unimpaired. You might also get the same results by just pulling the card and/or cables and rebooting. It will look for the dish, but you can still get to the Now Playing list eventually.


 I tried this. It's not connected to anything except my PC where I have video capture. I see the Almost there screen . So how do I get past the boot? Also Is there a way to get the stored programs from the hard drive. Thanks!


----------



## Rudy1957

de1946 said:


> I tried this. It's not connected to anything except my PC where I have video capture. I see the Almost there screen . So how do I get past the boot? Also Is there a way to get the stored programs from the hard drive. Thanks!


If your machine won't fully boot, you've more likely got a hard drive problem, not the software problem. The software-based problem is consistant rebooting -- functionality for a while, and spontaneous rebooting. If it was able to fully reboot with everything connected, try mixing and matching the disconnects, not just all of them at once. Be clear about what you did exactly, so somebody can understand your issue, both in diagnosis and attempted solution.

I'm not aware of a solution to get your programming off if you can't get the machine to fully boot at all. Your original post was vague about the genesis of your problem, but the clue might be in its prior behavior. The big clue for impending hard drive failure is noisiness.


----------



## roehrle

A while back I thought that my re-booting was over. I went 5 days without a re-boot. Now it seems I am getting a couple a day.. Just wondering if anybody else has noticed an increase again ??


----------



## dcstager

I solved the problem by uninstalling rbauch's tweaks.sh script and then re-installing it since the script has been been updated. This seems to have resolved the problem for me. Is there any tivo utility I can run that does the same thing as CHKDSK does in windows so I can check the file system integrity and do a surface scan for bad areas on the discs?


----------



## Daniel

roehrle said:


> A while back I thought that my re-booting was over. I went 5 days without a re-boot. Now it seems I am getting a couple a day.. Just wondering if anybody else has noticed an increase again ??


Yes, I've seen the same problem with my two HDVR2s. No reboots for days, but then tons of reboots yesterday and this morning. What ever is causing the reboot is back.


----------



## inghammer

Ok just today mine (old SAT-T60)started rebooting about every 5 to 10 minutes. Anyone have any suggestions


----------



## roehrle

Daniel said:


> Yes, I've seen the same problem with my two HDVR2s. No reboots for days, but then tons of reboots yesterday and this morning. What ever is causing the reboot is back.


Hi Daniel:
The fact that both your units are re-booting is a sure sign that DTV is causing the problem. 
I wonder if the old DST that occurred on April 1st has anything to do with the rebooting.??


----------



## inghammer

Here's exactly what happens with mine.

1. It reboots

2. All the tricks are reset to standard/factory settings

3. Both tuners will be on the same channel

4. It works just fine for 7 to 10 minutes (I timed it)

5. Its slows

6. It briefly pixilates

7. It reboots

This can't be a hard drive or hardware problem because the problem is the same for too many people for it to be a spontaneous hardware failure all over the country (I'm in Minnesota)

I have a friend who works at DTV I'll send him an email to see if he's aware of the problem.

I've tried doing the setting/reset, unplugging for about an hour, removing the card , manually forcing a call, none of those seemed to have an effect.

I haven't tried calling DTV yet but I'll probably do that today.

Did DTV push out some kind of update in the last few days?


----------



## PeteEggebeen

My S1 DTiVo (GXCEBOT) hasn't rebooted since Sunday afternoon (power interruption induced by 7 yr old  ) but my S2 DTiVo (HDVR2) rebooted at least twice yesterday.

Is anyone whois is more linux savvy aware of a simple commmand that I could put in my rc.sysinit.author file so that everytime I come back up, a date / time stamp is put in a file called 'reboot log'? This way I could just look at that file and see all the times the TiVo restarted.


----------



## Jumi

My Series 2 SDVR80 (144 hours) rebooted at 10am eastern this morning while I was recording on one tuner and watching the other. First time in at least 2 weeks. Still OK now - 1:49pm.


----------



## PeteEggebeen

PeteEggebeen said:


> My S1 DTiVo (GXCEBOT) hasn't rebooted since Sunday afternoon (power interruption induced by 7 yr old  ) but my S2 DTiVo (HDVR2) rebooted at least twice yesterday.
> 
> Is anyone whois is more linux savvy aware of a simple commmand that I could put in my rc.sysinit.author file so that everytime I come back up, a date / time stamp is put in a file called 'reboot log'? This way I could just look at that file and see all the times the TiVo restarted.


A friend of mine said I should try adding this command to my rc. sysinit.author:

date >> /etc/rc.d/reboot.log

I will add this when I get home and see if it works.


----------



## Daniel

roehrle said:


> Hi Daniel:
> The fact that both your units are re-booting is a sure sign that DTV is causing the problem.


Not only are they both rebooting again, but about half the time they reboot within a couple of minutes of each other. My Series 1 Phillips doesn't reboot at all.


----------



## inghammer

My SAT-T60 spent the whole day rebooting every 10 minutes. I'm now trying the clear and reset, after trying everything else suggested. 

The screen says it should take an hour and I'm now on hour 4. I guess when this doesn't work its on to trying a new hard drive or maybe just getting a new refurbished unit from weaknees.


----------



## DVBoone

I have a DSR704 and it reboots about every 30minutes to an hour all the time I have cleared the hard drive unplugged it and checked the power to the plug opened it up and cleaned out the dust and it still reboots any one have any other ideas or should I figure on getting a new one receiver.


----------



## John T Smith

List of Possible Hard Drive Problems in message#2
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=335120


----------



## PeteEggebeen

PeteEggebeen said:


> A friend of mine said I should try adding this command to my rc. sysinit.author:
> 
> date >> /etc/rc.d/reboot.log
> 
> I will add this when I get home and see if it works.


I added that line to both of my DTiVos last night and it works. I had a reboot of my HDVR2 at about 05:00 this morning. It currently is staying up about 24 to 48 hours between reboots. But at least with this command now, I can just check my 'reboot.log' file and see exactly when it rebooted.


----------



## Rudy1957

Mr. Smith, please spare us the constant (and sanctamonious) pointing to hard drive issues. We've already established that this reboot issue is not a hard drive issue. That thread makes it seem that it would be. While some people may in fact have hard drive issues, there was nothing in this poster's description that would made the hard drive a top suspect.


----------



## dagap

roehrle said:


> A while back I thought that my re-booting was over. I went 5 days without a re-boot. Now it seems I am getting a couple a day.. Just wondering if anybody else has noticed an increase again ??


I'm also seeing reboots on more than one DTivo (HR10-250 and DSR7000). Annoying.


----------



## Citywidesix

I have a Philips with software 6.2A. I also have an HR10-250 with software version 6.3C. The HR10-250 began to botch recordings in late March. A partial recording would appear in the list with the first part of a program recorded. A second recording would also appear with the end of the same program recorded. A mysterious 7 or 8 minute gap would be missing between the recordings. 

I didn't figure out what was going on until one day last week when I was watching live TV on the Philips and I suddenly got the "Welcome. Powering Up" screen followed by 7 or 8 minutes of rebooting. There is no way this is a hard drive issue if two different receivers of different vintage with different software begin screwing up almost simultaneously. No rain fade, no power failure or fluctuations either. 

DirecTV has a very short window to fix it or this $100 a month account is going straight to the competition. My wife does not trust them any more and I can't say she's wrong.


----------



## dtremain

Not to sound self-righteous (it's not a matter of right or wrong), but how many people who are now experiencing re-boots have completely unhacked and unmodified machines (including mods by a vendor like Weaknees)? I have two completely stock units, a 100 hr. Sammy and an R-10. They were both having occasional problems at the end of the year with the "enhanced guide data" like everyone else. Since the software update, both are running perfectly.

Have I just been lucky so far, or, is it even remotely possible that Directv has started the "enhanced guide data" again or something similar, and that whatever they are doing anticipates a completely *stock * unit, right down to the hard drive?

I admit that I know nothing about software engineering. While I like gear, my knowledge is limited to that of a fan.

Ask me about _Othello _ and I'll talk to you for hours.

But, just a thought.


----------



## John T Smith

Rudy1957 said:


> sanctamonious


Since when did this become the Church of Tivo... and who made you Pope?

If you are going to use big words... find out what they mean

sanctimonious (the correct spelling)

1 hypocritically pious or devout <a sanctimonious moralist> <the king's sanctimonious rebuke -- G. B. Shaw>

2 adj. making or marked by a hypocritical and often smug, intolerant show of religious devotion, morality, righteousness, etc.: We all resented his sanctimonious comments on immorality when he himself was involved in a shady business deal.

Added
There have been some questions after the rollout of the DST update concerning the "new style" guide data and did, or did not, the update fix the guide problem

I have yet to see any clear answer... just lots of speculation

When someone writes in with a problem that COULD be hard drive related... or, in fact, COULD be software and/or guide data related... I am not the only one who has posted the information about possible hard drive problems (in fact... I am only posting what someone else posted... many times)

Having ALL the information about POSSIBLE problems is good, since that allows someone to not "key in" on one possible (maybe true, maybe not) solution where there COULD be another solution that is true for that particular person

An example of this is the FACT that some people have written to talk about tuner problems... and the actual solution was to remove the S-Video cable... nobody, yet, seems to know WHY this fixes the problem (again, lots of speculation) but the simple FACT is that one solution does NOT fit all problems


----------



## Boston Fan

Rudy1957 said:


> Mr. Smith, please spare us the constant (and sanctamonious) pointing to hard drive issues. We've already established that this reboot issue is not a hard drive issue.


Dude, lighten up.


----------



## tigercat74

Both of my Samsungs are stock and I have had no reboots since they fixed the guide data.


----------



## Rudy1957

John T Smith said:


> I have yet to see any clear answer... just lots of speculation
> 
> When someone writes in with a problem that COULD be hard drive related... or, in fact, COULD be software and/or guide data related... I am not the only one who has posted the information about possible hard drive problems (in fact... I am only posting what someone else posted... many times)
> 
> Having ALL the information about POSSIBLE problems is good, since that allows someone to not "key in" on one possible (maybe true, maybe not) solution where there COULD be another solution that is true for that particular person
> 
> An example of this is the FACT that some people have written to talk about tuner problems... and the actual solution was to remove the S-Video cable... nobody, yet, seems to know WHY this fixes the problem (again, lots of speculation) but the simple FACT is that one solution does NOT fit all problems


Sorry to misspell sanctimonious -- it was the 2nd defininition I was going for. Sorry to sound heavyhanded, but the frustration I was expressing is that virtually every time you post on this issue, it's the same referral to an old thread without explanation as to the applicable parts, if any. Just in this thread you've posted that same friggin' link SIX TIMES (#88, #109, #182, #198, #203, #235) and numerous other times in other threads describing the same issue.

The logic flow you gave above is much more valuable than the constant throwing back to an old thread that will more often than not lead the questioner on a wild goose chase. It's new info people are looking for, and I agree that there are still more questions than answers. While the symptons of hard drive failure have to be considered, it's clear that this problem is different. Thus, my frustration with you. I'm sorry if I was offensive.


----------



## John T Smith

Rudy1957 said:


> sorry if I was offensive.


Not a problem... I learned a long time ago that communication by computer screen loses a LOT of what we depend on in face to face discussions... tone of voice, facial expression... even body language

I try to be clear in what I say... but I also have a habit, from 300 baud modem days, of being concise... and that sometimes leads to too FEW words

As far as what is going on with the DTivo machines here... until someone from Tivo who knows the software posts a message, or someone from DirecTv who knows what is being sent in the data stream posts a message, the sad fact is that people here may speculate... but the actual cause of any individual problem is going to remain very elusive


----------



## roehrle

inghammer said:


> My SAT-T60 spent the whole day rebooting every 10 minutes. I'm now trying the clear and reset, after trying everything else suggested.
> 
> The screen says it should take an hour and I'm now on hour 4. I guess when this doesn't work its on to trying a new hard drive or maybe just getting a new refurbished unit from weaknees.


Your problem seems to be different than most that have on this thread. I only reboot a couple times a day. I usually will be able to watch or record several hours before the next reboot. Rebooting every 10 minutes seems more like a HD problem. If your drive is over a couple years old I would guess it is more than likely your HD..


----------



## 1badv6

Well my hdvr40 has started to do the reboot ~ 10-20 min today starting at about 2pm here on the east coast. It was built with a new 120g drive and instacake 6.2 I let it do the 6.2a install thus wiping all my hacks out. It has been no problems till today. For some reason today it is having problems. On the info screen it says that sevice data was Apr 7 at 2:30am, GC was Apr 7 at 1:47am and Index was Apr 7 at 12:44pm

I'm about ready to trash this drive and start over. Seems like the last time I had this problem I did the hack to get rid of the logs and never had a reboot problem again.

Just checked my now playing list and it was recording durring the reboots. It started at 2:30pm and rebooted every 6 min after that.


----------



## Daniel

I don't know about the rest of you, but the reboots on my two HDVR2s have dramatically slowed down again. I'm only getting one or two a day again.


----------



## Budget_HT

These problems with nagging reboots baffle me. I am one of the lucky folks who is not seeing reboots at all. I have 2 HR10-250 HD TiVo's, 1 series 2 SD DirecTiVo and one series 1 DirecTiVo. With 6.3a on one of the HD TiVo's we had some reboots like many other folks. After it reached 6.3c, all went normal again with a short exception just before or after the 6.3 upgrade of the mess with the altered program guide from DirecTV.

I have to wonder why all of my units behave so well and other folks are having difficulties.


----------



## John T Smith

Budget_HT said:


> I have to wonder why all of my units behave so well and other folks are having difficulties


Either WAY back up in this thread, or maybe over in the one about programs being removed, I saw a few messages that SEEMED to link the restart problems to a particular combination of recording factors

I wasn't having the number of restarts reported by some people (did have some, until the software was updated) but I **think** I remember it was some combination of Season Passes, possibly aimed at local channels provided by DirecTv, and maybe something to do with Wishlists... again, maybe where local channels were involved

But... I didn't make any real notes, so can't be 100% certain


----------



## snotblower

I am not sure whether this applies to this thread or if this is a totally different issue...

I have a hacked series 1 directivo (DSR6000). On a number of occasions in the past few months there have been *specific* programs that cause reboots. In other words, if I search for a program or pick it from the guide and mark it to record, I get a reboot.

It will cause the reboot every time, but only that particular program. Other programs are fine.

I am not sure if it is coincidence, but every time it has happened it is on PBSU. And if the same episode has multiple showings, ALL showings of that episode cause the reboot.

Is this bad guide data? Or do I just have a bad drive sector and its time to replace the drive?


----------



## John T Smith

snotblower said:


> Is this bad guide data? Or do I just have a bad drive sector and its time to replace the drive?


I don't know about the guide data, but I don't see any way that a particular program would always be placed on the same spot on the hard drive by the software... but, since I didn't write the software, I guess anything is possible


----------



## dm999

Well, My stock HR10-250 just started rebooting over the last couple of days. I haven't done anything to this unit since I purchased it, then about 3-5 days ago I started noticing some split recordings. Over the last couple of days I've actually caught it when it boots. I'll be watching a recorded, or live, show, then I suddenly get the "Wecome" message.

So far, it seems to be happening no more than once a day, but I'm getting worried that it will get worse. 

Fortunately, in Dec/Jan, I had NO rebooting issues that I remember. Guess I'll just have to keep an eye on it and see what happens. I tried a manual reboot this evening. Here's keeping my fingers crossed that that will help/resolve the issue.


----------



## ManOfSteele

My DTiVos have been rebooting periodically recently, and one of them appears to have rebooted for the final time. All I get now is the Welcome screen. It's been doing this for a while now, but I had always been able to do a cold reboot and it would come back after a couple of attempts. This time no luck though. I had something similar to this happen a year ago or so and it turned out to be a marginal power supply. I suspect it's the same thing. The question is do I put more $$$ into this HDVR2 or switch to something new. I have two of these, both upgraded with an extra 160GB drive. I'd hate going with something like a comcast DVR and have only 120GB. What's DIRECTV's new box like? I know it's not TiVo but is it any good?


----------



## spyder180

I have the same problem with my DirecTV R10. Did you have to use a hack to to clear and delete program data or is it something that I can do with the TiVo interface? The R10 has been rebooting continually for over three days and did boot up once and then about 10 minutes later got back into the cycle of rebooting.


----------



## shallowpockets

ManOfSteele said:


> My DTiVos have been rebooting periodically recently, and one of them appears to have rebooted for the final time. All I get now is the Welcome screen. It's been doing this for a while now, but I had always been able to do a cold reboot and it would come back after a couple of attempts. This time no luck though. I had something similar to this happen a year ago or so and it turned out to be a marginal power supply. I suspect it's the same thing. The question is do I put more $$$ into this HDVR2 or switch to something new. I have two of these, both upgraded with an extra 160GB drive. I'd hate going with something like a comcast DVR and have only 120GB. What's DIRECTV's new box like? I know it's not TiVo but is it any good?


I'm in a similar dilema with one of my HDVR2 boxes. It is rebooting and then freezing at the Welcome screen. For now, it still comes up if I cycle the power. I have anotehr HDVR2 that is not rebooting at all. Both are essentially identical, running 4.01 via monte, using upgrades performed in January 2004.

So now I'm trying to decide if this is a hardware or software issue and whether I want to upgrade these boxes to 6.x or what. Any suggestions?


----------



## Rudy1957

SP, yours sounds like a hard drive failing, especially given the age. If you hear excessive noise, that's it for sure. If you want to salvage recordings, swap out pronto.


----------



## advancian

The last two nights my HD 10-250 has rebooted itself right in the middle of watching TV any ideas what I can do?


----------



## John T Smith

I do not see the dozens/hundreds of messages about rebooting, like there were around the 1st of the year, so it is likely your unit is failing

Read List of Possible Hard Drive Problems in message#2
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=335120


----------



## innocentfreak

My father's non HD one just started rebooting while watching recordings. Also he is getting lots of split recordings. I am guessing his hard drive may be failing, but he is playing the wait and see game since he has another one currently.


----------



## coolerboy98

I think that my Direct tv reciever w/ tivo is finally dead. It wasn't able to connect to tivo via the modem any more. It had been freezing for the last few months and I would just unplug it and plug it back in and it would usually work fine for few days after that. Now it won't power back up. Direct tv said they'll send me a new dvr, but that it probably won't be a tivo. I'm guessing that the odds are 100% that it won't be a tivo unit. I think that I probably need at least a new hard drive and power supply. Can anyone recommend a repair service? I just want to send it off and get it back fixed/upgraded. Is it worth it?


----------



## John T Smith

I think there is a repair service here http://www.weaknees.com/

Worth it is subjective... also check eBay for a replacement... but be sure to get the receiver ID so you may call DTV and verify there is no outstanding balance

Other replacement notes here
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=316297


----------



## fw2183

My unmodified 1 1/2 year old HD 10-250 has started rebooting and will only stay usable for 20 minutes before either rebooting on it's on or becomming unusable and I end up rebooting it. Started with a periodic issue about a week ago and has got progressively worse. Sys info shows 6.3c. Never seen the temp over 50C.

From looking back over this thread I didn't see any smoking gun solutions but have tried all the suggestions I've seen. I've deleted a great deal of progams to free up space (had 10 hours of "Planet Earth" in HD that I killed), I've turned off suggestions and deleted most. I've forced a call. Other than do a complete factory reset I'm not sure what else to do. 

I've no interest in the H20 DTV DVR replacment, we have the DTV SD DVR (R15?) in the bedroom and don't think much of it at all. In fact I have a friend with an older SD DTV Tivo I plan to switch it with.

What else can I try before giving up and trying a drive replacement? I'm considering getting Instant Cake and a new drive for it and just do an single drive replacement. If I get to that point what drive do I even need?

I'm figuring a drive + Instant cake will cost ~$200. Does 9th tee or weaknees offer a pre-formatted drive replacment for the HD 10-250? I couldn't find anything on their site saying so if they did. 

I may try a factory reset tonight just to say I've done everything I can from here. Anything else to try?

Thanks


----------



## innocentfreak

fw2183 said:


> I'm figuring a drive + Instant cake will cost ~$200. Does 9th tee or weaknees offer a pre-formatted drive replacment for the HD 10-250? I couldn't find anything on their site saying so if they did.


On Weaknees has this page for the HD 10-250...http://www.weaknees.com/hughes-hr10-250.php


----------



## fw2183

Thanks for that IF. I see too they have a 30 day return with 15% restock fee so if it's not the drive then at least it will only cost me 24 bucks to find out. 

I did a "Clear and Delete" last night and 11 hours later it's still going.


----------



## bengalfreak

fw2183 said:


> Thanks for that IF. I see too they have a 30 day return with 15% restock fee so if it's not the drive then at least it will only cost me 24 bucks to find out.
> 
> I did a "Clear and Delete" last night and 11 hours later it's still going.


Sounds like a drive failure.


----------



## Extremist

So here I sit with a little R10 unit which is very happy rebooting it's head off all day long.

I've got it down in the office right now attempting to get the dial out to work over Vonage so it can update to the latest software. It's showing 6.1 right now... so I'm hoping it will clear up if I can ever get the thing to download whatever it's trying to get.

Also does not help that I get maybe 2 1/2 tries at dialing before it decides to reboot.


----------



## Extremist

Success! Finally loaded the software and now it's at 6.1a... however after watching for about 10 minutes it rebooted again. 

Did anyone ever figure out what was causing the reboots? I didn't ever see a definitive answer, or maybe I missed it.

Clear and delete everything? Can DirecTV send a signal to the unit to do a more effective reset than I can? I don't know if the one you can choose through the reset menu is as thorough as the one DirecTV might be able to do?


----------



## Extremist

Anybody? Know anything about this?

I'm going to try to get a recording off that the sister in law really wants, but with a reboot every 5-10 minutes it's not going to be easy.


----------



## John T Smith

You may have a failing hard drive
List of Possible Hard Drive Problems in message#2
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=335120


----------



## beststuff7887

Hi 

I have a dsr6000 with a DTV subscription but my tivo keeps rebooting everytime it gets to the aquiring quide info. And the weird part is if i unplug the cable (satellite cord - from the dish) it will stay at 0% (obviously) but i can then go in an watch any of my programs - everything will work great but the second that i plug in the sat cable it will reboot and will just keep rebooting at the aquireing guide info screen.

i have a hr20 and an hr 10 - 250 that both work find just this on is the issue. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated - thanks in advance

steve


----------



## JimSpence

What happens if you swap the two sat inputs?

Also, duplicate threads are frowned upon.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=353324


----------



## dcstager

My HDVR2 is occasionally and apparently spontaneously crashing and hanging at the "Powering up" screen. I have to unplug the power and reboot and it reboots fine. Is this the same problem being discussed here? I thought it might have to do with the hard drive getting too full. It doens't seem to happen unless the machine is full or close to full. Something to do with log files and such? It's got the zipper and the rbautch tweak.sh stuff all in place. I bought a new hard drive to replace the old one, but I'm thinking maybe something else is the cause. Has a best guess solution to this dilemma been agreed upon?


----------



## amishbry

This is crazy! WHy is it that SO MANY people are experiencing the same issue with their directv tivos?

i have a Hughes Standard Def SD40 and for the past week it has been rebooting more and more and more. It will reboot but freeze up on the welcome screen like someone else posted. i called directv and they didnt even offer to replace it for free. they wanted me to pay $20 for the non-tivo replacement, or $300 for the non-tivo HD (HR20 i'm sure). crazy.

i called today and spoke with a rep and he was transferring me over to tech support where he said they should offer me a free replacement. but while on hold i found this thread so i hung up. 

So has ANYONE had success "fixing" a rebooting machine? Clearing the hard drive? Doing some sort of "reset"? replacing parts? 

If anyone has had success or knows someone who has, please share. There's so many of these rebooting machines out there, it almost seems like something fishy is going on. very strange...

bryan


----------



## Daniel

There are two types of rebooting going on. The first is the reboots that are caused by junky guide data coming from DirecTV, the other is a hardware problem, usually a failing hard drive. And it is VERY hard to tell them apart.

At the moment, it appears that the second is the more common, but I have been seeing a few reboots myself over the past week that appear to be guide data problems.

There doesn't appear to be a fix for the guide data problem. All know attempts to resolve from the user side appear to have failed up to and including hard drive replacements. Waiting it out seems to have worked in the past.

However, if you ARE experiencing a hard drive failure, you can replace the hard drive. The easiest way would be to get a replacement drive from Weeknees, 9th Tee or the TiVo Community Store.


----------



## dcstager

Which kind of reboot is caused by junky guide data? Mine is the kind where it just seems to spontaneously go to the grey "Powering up" screen and stays there indefinitely until you physically unplug the unit and re-plug it in to reboot.


----------



## roehrle

I was re-booting several times a day but it has stopped now for at least 2 weeks. I didn't do anything except I changed to selecting programs manually. This didn't seem to work right away but it may be why finally my unit has stopped re-booting. I'm hoping that they may have solved the problem but I guess people are still experiencing the re-boot problem.


----------



## ForrestB

The incompatable DirecTV Guide data that caused the DirecTivo's to reboot was a problem that originated on 12/18/2006 and it was fixed on 1/13/2007 according to this thread http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4770985

If you're DirecTivo is still rebooting/malfunctioning, it's likely caused by a failing hard drive or power supply. Note the hard drive in all DirecTivo's spins 24/7 if it's plugged into a wall outlet. If your DirecTivo is more than 4 years old - I'd suggest reinstalling the Tivo software on a new, larger hard drive. You'll need a PC with at least (2) IDE ports and a Tivo software image such - google Instacake and go to Tivo Upgrade Center for more info


----------



## tonyt78

both of mine just started randomly rebooting today. anything I can try?


----------



## roehrle

tonyt78 said:


> both of mine just started randomly rebooting today. anything I can try?


The fact that both are re-booting in a way is a good sign the your HD's are OK.
I'm upset to hear there is still a possible problem that DTV is having. IMHO if you are having HD problems I think it would show up in more ways than just rebooting. People on this forum kept telling me I had a HD problem but I have lost track of the last time I had a reboot. It must be a least 3 weeks now. I would hang in there and wait before you do anything drastic.


----------



## dcstager

I had a re-boot/lockup yesterday (June 19) at 3:51 PM Pacific. I had to unplug the thing and re-plug it in, but it booted fine and is working. It's a DVR-80. I don't recall this happening with 6.2 and it began shortly after 6.2a. But as has been pointed out repeatedly, the installation of software may just be coincidental to drive failures.

I still would like to know if there is any kind of Linux program that does the same thing as DOS's CHKDSK /F that could be run on the Tivo. I've already tried the "mfsassert -please" program from the bash prompt which forces the green screen of death.

I wonder if there is also a program or command that will force the Tivo to re-index the guide data too? And how would I know if the power supply is bad? The power doens't seem to turn off or flicker when these events occur.


----------



## roehrle

beststuff7887 said:


> Hi
> 
> I have a dsr6000 with a DTV subscription but my tivo keeps rebooting everytime it gets to the aquiring quide info. And the weird part is if i unplug the cable (satellite cord - from the dish) it will stay at 0% (obviously) but i can then go in an watch any of my programs - everything will work great but the second that i plug in the sat cable it will reboot and will just keep rebooting at the aquireing guide info screen.
> 
> i have a hr20 and an hr 10 - 250 that both work find just this on is the issue. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated - thanks in advance
> 
> steve


This is very interesting that removing the Satellite cable allows you to look at recorded programing. IMHO this is positive proof that the DTV problem hasn't been fixed and we are not experiencing HD problems. This has to be something coming down from the satellite causing the problem.


----------



## shallowpockets

One of our HDVR2 units started an infinite reboot loop yesterday (on a manual reboot), going to 'Welcome' then 'Just a few minutes' then after a little while, BLAM, and back to the 'Welcome' screen, in a forever loop.

The only way we get it to boot now is to unplug the Satellite cables, then let it boot. Then if we plug the Satellite cables back in again, it seems okay.

We tried the 'Clear program data and to do list' option, but it hasn't helped. The box won't boot unless we unplug the Satellite cables.

The box is hacked with monte 4.01 in 2004. It's the classic issue of hardware vs. software and whether any given attempt to "fix" it makes it worse or better. My wife DOES NOT want to lose the programs on there and putting them on DVD (or whatever) is not a viable alternative (equivalent to losing everything in my wife's view). Do I dare try a slice upgrade? Will that help or risk making things worse?

What do I want to look for in the /var/log files? to help diagnose what is causing the infinite boot loop?


----------



## John T Smith

>The box is hacked

Any help here?
Forums for DTivo Hacking, Upgrades, Networking, etc
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=24


----------



## [email protected]

what does a yellow record light mean?


----------



## drew2k

[email protected] said:


> what does a yellow record light mean?


Most folks say "amber", but it means the box is trying to dial out over the phone line ...


----------



## skyewalker

My unmodified HR10-250 starting rebooting about 2 weeks ago -- it's okay for a day or two, then starts freezing and rebooting every 10-15 minutes and keeps that up for several days. Based on everything I've read, I'm guessing HD failure. I found some posts about trying a self-repair (press Pause when the power light goes amber during startup, then press 57 when the second light goes amber) but the steps described don't work on my unit (the power light never goes amber). Is there a self-repair option for the HR10-250, or can anyone suggest anything else I should try before spending the money on a new drive kit?

TIA


----------



## dcstager

I have not had a reboot or lockup for several weeks now. Can I safely assume that it's not my hard disc? The primary symptom I've had in the past was that the machine would spontaneously go to the "Powering up" screen and stay there until it was unplugged and rebooted. Surfing the internet, it seems as if that symptom happens when the machine can't access the kernel. It's working, so I'm hesitant to "fix" it just yet and I'll probably wait until it dies completely. Would a power supply problem cause that symptom? Or is this the guide data choke? How do I know?


----------



## roehrle

I have had one power-up in the last month. Pretty sure my problems were all DTV related..Just glad I didn't put my new HD in a while back when people were telling me I had a HD problem.


----------



## Jumi

Anyone else have a spontaneous reboot about 8:15 EDT this morning?


----------



## tbo

I have/had the continual rebooting problem on a hughes box. pulled the drive (about 4 years old) and re-installed the origianal 40 gig drive (which has about a week of wear on it) and now I'm just stuck at the "Welcome. Powering Up" screen.???

any ideas?
thanks


----------



## jonbig

Double check the jumpers on the drive. You might have fiddled with them and forgot about it.

Otherwise, it might not be the drive that is causing your problem.


----------



## tbo

Hey JonBig. That was it. it didn't have a jumper. put one on master and she booted up.
So far so good. Except way slower and now i have to try and remember tooooo much stuff
Thanks, Tim


----------



## Brando

This is regarding an HDVR2 with a HHD that is going bad i think, but maybe its something else? i have two drives installed, original , plus a weaknees add-on. ( variable up to 141 hours). Not sure which one (zIF that is the issue) is going bad.
software version 6.2a-01-2-151

The issue...the unit is freezing occasionally and sometimes makes an occasional slow clicking ( click....click....click) sound. It then usually powers down and restarts, then works fine for a periods of time, then acts up again...sometimes in 15 minutes, sometimes it takes hours.
More oftern than not it just freezes and that will only last a second or two and then everything returns to normal. Sometimes the picture just pixelates. Sound always goes away when acting up.
This happens whether watching live TV or a recorded show.

I need to know...
How do i test the drives in the unit now.
I thought it might be a heat issue, as the fan was fairly dirty, so i opened the unit and blew out all the dust.

Optimally i would like to replace both drives with a single drive with larger capacity than the two that are there( original, + an 80( i think) from weakness.

*Is there a way to pull all my currently recorded shows off this drive before it fails completely?
I.E how do i format a new drive ( or is it just better to buy a formated drive from somehwere) The key...copy the current saved shows on to the new drive.*

I am pretty adapt at using a PC and can learn quickly what i dont know...

What suggestions does anyone have?

Thank you much.


----------



## Zephyr

I join the growing list of self-booters with one of our R10's. It started rebooting a couple of months ago, at first infrequent, now in iterative fashion during the morning, this morning almost every 15 minutes until I turned it off. I make the calls once a month or so followed with a reboot and it's not hacked in any way. A second R10 is doing just fine. I've read through here and it seems that I may have to try the resets and hope that that clears up the problem. They describe several levels of reset, ultimately setting all to initialized status. Should I just go all the way or try them incrementally? Thanks!


----------



## phemfrog

My R10 unit (2.5 yrs old) has been rebooting for months now. It always makes it through the whole reboot cycle and records just fine when not rebooting. I have noticed no other symptoms in sound or video quality. 

Was it ever decided as to whether this is hard drive or software caused? 

When i called DTV they gave me this long procedure to erase the thing and start over. Will this work? Worth my time, or will i just be throwing away my recordings?

I would prefer not to load a new hard drive in there... 

PS, i read the whole thread and didn't find an exact answer or suggestion.


----------



## Zephyr

A followup on trying to eliminate the rebooting by running various reset functions. Last night, I started running the reset selecting only the suggestions area. The R10 ran last night and this morning with no further problems


----------



## mhn2

We started seeing random reboots months ago on our R10. It has now gotten to the point that they occur multiple times a day. The picture will freeze and then the system reboots. It always comes back on and works fine afterwards, so I'm not sure if it is a hdd issue or guide data issue. We have tried clear and delete suggestions, but haven't noticed it making any diiference. Has anyone been able to get DTV to swap out a DirecTiVo for an DirecTV DVR?


----------



## Rudy1957

For all you R-10 guys having reboot problems: the problem is almost undoubtedly hard drive failure. You'll find that about 3 years is average expected life for the drives that are heavily used. Some fail sooner. The data stream problem mostly affected the HDVR2 class, both Hughes and Phillips. The R-10 isn't exactly the same, although it is a Series 2.

Don't be intimidated to change your hard drives out, as the tools make it fairly simple for anyone with basic computer literacy and an ability to exactly follow directions. There's plenty of info around here.

Certainly don't let the problem fester until your machine won't reboot if you want to preserve your old recordings.


----------



## chrishicks

ok, I've had atleast 1, sometimes 2 reboots every single day since I got 6.3e. is there any way I can fix this? does this mean my HDD is most likely on its way out?


----------



## dtremain

chrishicks said:


> ok, I've had atleast 1, sometimes 2 reboots every single day since I got 6.3e. is there any way I can fix this? does this mean my HDD is most likely on its way out?


I'm afriad so. Software versions alternate between two different sections of the hard drive. When an update suddenly starts causing problems, it's probably because that part of the hard drive was already damaged, but it wasn't being used with the previous version. There are always a number of cases like this on this forum when there is a software update.

Sorry.


----------



## suspicous

I moved back to the United States three years ago after an absence of five years. One of the first things I did, based on the excitement of my friends, was to go to BestBuy and spend $1,000 on a high def directv tivo. I think I also had to pay for the satelite dish but am not sure. I willingly commited to a contract with directv.

No surprise to all of you, Tivo was everything I expected and more; the Directv service was fine as well.

Then about 8 months ago the reboot problem described in this thread began.

After messing around with it for a few months, I called directv. They seemed to be very helpful and friendly. I told them my Tivo no longer worked and they said, fine, they would send me a new "one". That should have alerted me since I had paid $1,000 for the box and it is, in retrospect, unlikely that a company would replace it free after a couple of years of use.

Well, you know what happened next; when I opened the box it was not a Tivo but a directv dvr. And, the company now claims I agreed to a one-year service extensions; I did not; the issue didn't come up in the conversation.

Those of you who have used both Tivo and directv's pitiful attempt to make a competing dvr know what happened next; I was horrified by the directv box; it is in no way comparable to a Tivo.

After spending a lot of time talking to directv, and surfing the net I have concluded that it is impossible to restore Tivo service with Directv. (It might be possible to get a used directv tivo box but I have no assurance it would work.)

My alternative is Comcast but the blogosphere suggests that that choice could by a true horror show; at least the directv service works, that is, it provides tv reliably if not a good DVR service.

My question is this:

Is this for real (the failures of all these tivos) or is someone (quess who) sending software that disables them, making them appear to have had a hardware failure when, in fact, they have been sabotaged by software?

And I have a further question:

Why is Tivo's official website silent on the subject?

Any thoughts?


----------



## Brando

Are r-10's tivos? ( i still have and HDVR2) If not, then the theory that DTV is intentionaly disabling tivos falls short since failures are happening in non tivo machines.


----------



## chrishicks

r-10s are tivos. r-15s are not.


----------



## 15968

As I've stated in this thread in the past, in December / January timeframe I had 3 DirecTivos all start to do the random reboots. The problem got better when DTV supposedly fixed the datastream. Then reboots seemed to happen again, but they weren't excessively frequent (but annoying enough). One unit (our main one that the family records stuff on) seemed to have the problem worse than the others (rebooting 3 or 4 times a day).

Fast forward to about a week ago. The main unit was now rebooting many times a day (approximately every 3 hours) and the other units were now rebooting 2 or more times a day. My wife and kids were livid with me. My wife was starting to demand we switch to the new DirecTV DVR (she said she'd live with missed recordings, as she was sick of having partial recordings and having the DTivo reboot while watching programs). I have to admit, I was ready to give up myself.

I decided to come back to these forums to see if anything new. Really didn't see anything new, but did notice people talking about HD's going out (I have a hard time believing 3 units need a new harddrive starting on almost the same day). I also saw mention about removing thumbs and suggestions data, removing todo, wishlists, and seasonpasses, and finally doing a full reset. I decided, I could try going this route as a final try to see if it helps...

Well, its only been 28 hours so far, but since I chose "Clear program information and To Do List" from 2 of the DTivos' they have now been up and running for the entire time since that operation completed (The main DTivo that was rebooting th most actually rebooted at least 3 times while performing this operation, but came back to the Clearing screen each time so I assume it worked). I don't know how long its been since these two units have ran for more than 24 hours without a reboot, but man, I'm crossing my fingers now and have just done this with the 3rd unit. 

Downside to this fix is that you lose you wishlists and season passes, but if it means the reboots stop, thats a very small price to pay IMO. I'll try to report back in a week or so with how things go and after all the guide data is back.

Oh, I'm also upgrading the enhancement scripts to the lastest version (I don't know what version I was running, but it was from the zipper I did over a year ago).

Makes me wonder that for those having the reboot problems, if they are Hacked / Zippered, what version of the scripts was done, if Suggestions are turned on, etc.


----------



## Duffycoug

mhn2 said:


> We started seeing random reboots months ago on our R10. It has now gotten to the point that they occur multiple times a day. The picture will freeze and then the system reboots. It always comes back on and works fine afterwards, so I'm not sure if it is a hdd issue or guide data issue. We have tried clear and delete suggestions, but haven't noticed it making any diiference. Has anyone been able to get DTV to swap out a DirecTiVo for an DirecTV DVR?


Directv offered to replace my Tivo unit with one of their units for the $19.99 shipping cost....seems like they are sabotaging the tivo units with corrupt software if you ask me......wayyyy too many reboots now after the 6.3e release.


----------



## mhn2

This weekend I decided to hook up the new R15 that D* sent me. So, before I did this, I decided to do a Clear & Delete everything on my R10. After a few hours, and me having to force a reboot when it got stuck on the "Welcome, Powering Up" screen, I went through the guided setup just to see if that would fix the problem. I recorded a few shows, and tried to stress test it as much as possible that afternoon, without a reboot. I went ahead and hooked up the R15 and activated it. I hope I get used to this new machine. I already hate the remote. Looks like I might need to get another Harmony.


----------



## chrishicks

ok, my parents just received 6.3e on their unit and guess what - reboots. it has a new drive in it. it has been in it for about 2 months. can a drive go bad that fast when the unit only records 4 shows a week and spends most of its time inn standby? the temp always reads under 40 degrees so its not running hot.


----------



## Dante101

Yeah, my Tivo just now rebooted. Just got the software update last week. I was watching a movie on Chiller - not even changing channels or anything - and it just reboots. Too much of a coincidence for me.

I also have the gut feeling that the main thing wrong with both the Tivo upgrade and the DTV branded DVRs is the software...


----------



## lmk911

After receiving 6.3e on all of my DTiVos, one of my R10s reboots at least twice a day. I am hoping my other R10 and my HR10 do not start to exhibit this behavior. I am also carefully watching my season passes because I encountered problems with the season passes for The Closer and Saving Grace on TNT.


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## chrishicks

well, I'm slowly cancelling SPs off my rebooting unit(to one of my standalone tivos with Comcast). I'm trying to get my already recorded programs watched so I can replace the drive with a preformatted drive that I have as a backup. if I get 6.3e on a brand new drive and I still get a ton of reboots I'm going to be very upset.


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## chrishicks

Update:

I just installed a new drive and it is currently loading something(not sure if I'll get 6.2a or 6.3e or anything yet for that matter). the drive currently has 6.2. if I get 6.3e and still see reboots I'll report back.


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## Zephyr

I reported on 8/8/07 that running the clear/initialize function for the suggestion list resolved incessant reboots. That has come to an end yesterday with several reboots during the morning. I have not dialed in during this period. I'll redo the init for the suggestion list and see what that gets me.


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## wedgecon

My R10 has been rebooting a lot since the latest software update. Today it rebooted as i watching the news.

Update 9/9/2007: I was watching the 6:30 PM News on KABC in LA. This might be important as I had another reboot a couple of days later while watching the same news program. Another user also had reboots between 5:00 and 7:00 PM.


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## danmcd

Have there been updates to the Series 1 DirecTiVo software (e.g. Sony SAT-T60) also?

I'm getting sudden reboots too, and before I blame hardware, I want to check what's up.


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## Dante101

danmcd said:


> Have there been updates to the Series 1 DirecTiVo software (e.g. Sony SAT-T60) also?
> 
> I'm getting sudden reboots too, and before I blame hardware, I want to check what's up.


Go to your system information screen and tell us what software version number your Tivo has. I remember reading that the SAT-T60s would not be getting the enhanced features next year, but maybe they also got this latest update.

My first Tivo was a SAT-T60. When I bought it, it couldn't get a dial tone. Never had that trouble when I just had a DTV receiver. So I bought one of those modems from Weeknees, and it worked like a charm.

Then a couple of years later I bought a Hughes series 2. It also couldn't dial in when I plugged my phone line into the back, so I had it use the modem (no problem since I wasn't using my SAT-T60 anymore).

About a year or two ago (can't remember exactly when) my unit suddenly couldn't get a dial tone even with the modem. All my other phone devices worked okay, and I tried unplugging everything else from my phone line (and other troubleshooting stuff) but it kept failing. So I just lived with it. I thought maybe the modem got zapped, even though it was on a surge protector.

Now, with this update, my unit is suddenly able to call out (via modem) on its own again. WTF?!?

Aside from that, it rebooted the other day - something it hasn't done before, and thankfully hasn't done again so far - but the timing is pretty coincidental with the new update.

And another new weird thing I'm noticing is that every so often, the picture turns from color to black & white! When this happens, I've pressed the PLAY button, and that is also black & white. When I rewind, the same portion of programming that was B&W is now fine, in color. So its not being recorded in B&W.

So I thought maybe its my TV, so the last time it happened (yesterday), I pressed the volume control, and that volume display was in color.

I don't know what's happening there. It still might be something with my TV. I don't see my Tivo as being responsible for losing color. Its so random, its hard to troubleshoot.


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## jdbranno

MikeF said:


> ... Downside to this fix is that you lose you wishlists and season passes, but if it means the reboots stop, thats a very small price to pay IMO...


I tried this, too, but no luck. Did a complete "erase everything" restart yesterday, and my R10 rebooted again today.

I called DTV when this first started happening (right after 6.3e), and they offered to send me a new box. I said I'd take it if it were a *Tivo*, not the DTV R15. The CSR said they still had some Tivos left and that they'd send me one. Of course, I open the box and it's an R15. So then I had to get them to send me a FedEx return label, take the $20 shipping charge and 2-yr commitment off my bill...

Anyway, DirecTV thinks this is a hardware problem, and it's pretty obviously related to 6.3e. I called today, tried to explain this, and they had no idea what I was talking about. They just wanted to send me an R15. Finally talked to a guy who said he would talk to Engineering about this. Told him to visit this thread.

Just keep telling myself "cable was worse, cable was worse..."


----------



## jdbranno

BTW, the CSR I talked to a couple days ago about returning the R15 didn't want to send me a "recovery kit" (box and FedEx label for returning R15). "You won't need one," he said. "Just take it to FedEx and tell them to send it to DirecTV, 'cause we have, like, a deal with them and stuff."

Me: "So you're telling me if I take this unmarked box with no mailing label to FedEx, they'll ship it to you for free? They won't charge me anything?"

CSR: "Uh, yeah."

Is there a DTV tech support number I can call that bypasses the first-level monkeys?


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## chuckg

Both purchased summer 2004.
Both started rebooting early this year.
Replaced both HDs with new ones from weaknees around 7/1/07.
"New and improved" software (6.3) downloaded very recently.

Earlier this week my #2 unit (on 5 or 6 hours a day) rebooted. It is now in the long process of restarting where it wipes it clean. (Why is it so SLOOOOOOOOOW?)
Tonight my #1 unit (on 5 or 6 hours a day) rebooted.
Coincidence?
Or power supplies going bad?

I don't use any advanced features other than manual record occasionally to tack on additional time where required. No Wishlist, Thumbs, Suggestions, Showcases, Season Pass Manager. Just watch 2 channels simultaneously when there are commercials and, on weekends, record up to 4 channels simultaneously.


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## phox_mulder

wedgecon said:


> My R10 has been rebooting a lot since the latest software update. Today it rebooted as i watching the news.


My R10 has started rebooting pretty much daily as well.

It's rebooted during live tv and playing back a recording.

First time it's had this problem, last time it was the HR10-250 that was the problem.

Just throwing it out there, but could D* be trying the "enhanced guide data" again?
Anyone with hacked boxes able to pull the logs like last time?

phox


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## kaszeta

phox_mulder said:


> My R10 has started rebooting pretty much daily as well.
> 
> It's rebooted during live tv and playing back a recording.


My R10 and my DSR704 both started the reboots as well.


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## Dante101

Luckily (knock on wood) my series 2 Hughes only had that one reboot last week, and hasn't repeated it (so far). I use this Tivo pretty heavily. I have 52 Season Passes, 113 saved Wishlist Searches, and most of the time my 70 GB hard drive is around 3/4 full.


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## tigercat74

My three series 2 have not rebooted since the new software has been installed. Mine are stock except for putting a new hard drive in the Hughes model. I guess I should just knock on wood that they don't start rebooting.


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## orome

I noticed my SAT-T60 had rebooted a day or two ago. Aside from possibly some new station logos on Now Playing, and having to reset my secret c0dez , I haven't noticed any difference.


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## Dale Sorel

I guess my machine just got 3.5c... Yipeee


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## phemfrog

So i read this and 100,000 other threads online about rebooting and other problems. My R-10 DirecTivo started rebooting months ago. Was really bad at first (many times per day) then slowed down in May or so to about once per day. Then this July it got really bad again, sometimes 4 reboots in one hour. 

I did the entire reset, clearing all settings and erasing all data. My R-10 is not hacked in any way, and i bought it in feb 2005. It didn't reboot for 2 or 3 days, and now it is doing it again. At least a couple times per day.

I do not want to lose Tivo, so i wont switch my box. I really wanna know if this is hardware or software...? There are many people who got new hard drives and are still having the problem. 

This is just ridiculous. Isn't there any DirecTV insider who can help us out?


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## litzdog911

phemfrog said:


> So i read this and 100,000 other threads online about rebooting and other problems. My R-10 DirecTivo started rebooting months ago. Was really bad at first (many times per day) then slowed down in May or so to about once per day. Then this July it got really bad again, sometimes 4 reboots in one hour.
> 
> I did the entire reset, clearing all settings and erasing all data. My R-10 is not hacked in any way, and i bought it in feb 2005. It didn't reboot for 2 or 3 days, and now it is doing it again. At least a couple times per day.
> 
> I do not want to lose Tivo, so i wont switch my box. I really wanna know if this is hardware or software...? There are many people who got new hard drives and are still having the problem.
> 
> This is just ridiculous. Isn't there any DirecTV insider who can help us out?


I just sent a note to my DirecTV technical contacts to see if these frequent reboots might be a 6.3e problem. I agree that this does seem to be more than the usual problems that occur after a software update when the hard drive starts using a previously unusued drive partition.


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## kalex

My Hughes DirecTv TiVo has been rebooting more or less daily for a couple of weeks. Ever since getting 6.3. My daughter's has also been rebooting, but she hasn't been using it much for a while, so there's no way to tell how often. I called DirecTV yesterday and was told that they had nothing listed in Known Issues, and that it takes some number of calls to get something listed. Then she transferred me to someone further up the line, who was taking more notes and looking for more things that might be related. Then I got cutoff. I was hoping they'd call back since they had my number, but no one did. I plan to call again as soon as I have some spare time, all told I was on the phone for about 45 minutes. 

I've also had the issue that someone else mentioned where the colors occasionally go blotchy or the screen goes to B&W. Sometimes the response to a button press is very slow, especially opening the Guide or changing tuners. And once I had a hard lock on a blank screen that required unplugging the unit to force a reboot. 

We had trouble with reboots last year when they did a software upgrade, and it went away when they fixed it. If you're having trouble be sure to call so that they can log it and recognize the problem. Otherwise it will never get fixed.


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## patrickd88

Same here. Freezing. Only thing that solves is to pull the cord and plug back in. Will call DirecTV and report. Maybe patch in the works?


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## cdk

Juat another "me too" My SIR-S4080R has been randomly re-booting since 6.3e

I may call D just to log the complaint.


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## Ken Crane

My SIR-S4080R has also been randomly re-booting since 6.3e - IMO there is no doubt this is caused by the software upgrade. CS doesn't have a clue & is a waste of time talking to. I have no doubt that the re-boots are caused by the software upgrade although I fully expect DTV to deny this. The 6.3e upgrade also stole 3 hours from my recording time - the time now reflects 67 hours as opposed to 70 hours before the upgrade. 

It would be really helpful if one of the 'insiders' on this board could get a DTV knowledgeable tech person to post on this thread but then I guess if they did come on & tell the truth they would be fired!


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## markbox

Hughes SD-DVR40 here, solid unit for years, got 6.3e not too long ago and was having reception problems as if the sat signal was having problems or dish was moving in the wind but no wind was present. Then last night, while watching TV, the system just reboots, then reboots again, then reboots again, over and over. It won't operate for more than 10 minutes without rebooting. It will also just lock up and require a power off/power on.

So, since I have 5 drives for this unit I plugged in a 120 Gig with 6.2 software and left it running overnight. Seems to be working just fine, no reboots, no reception problems. So, not a chassis problem. Could still be a hardrive problem with my 300 Gig drive though (with lots of unwatched programs) 

Guess it's time to get a 500Gig drive and clone it from my 120 with 6.2 software and unplug the damn phone line. sigh...

I hope DirecTV comes out with a software fix cause I'd hate to loose all those unwatched programs. But how would I get the software fix when the system isn't stable enough to stay operational for more than 10 minutes?


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## Marrelli71

I have a SIR-S4040R, and it has changed my recording capacity from 35 hours to 32. My unit too has rebooted a few times since 6.3e.

One thing I've noticed when I hit the "live tv" button to bring it out of standby mode is that it seems to briefly show the Tivo menu but quickly dissappears.


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## 15968

Just an update to my previous post... About a week after doing the clear the reboots have come back with a vengence. My DirecTivo's are zippered and not connected to a phone line, so there are no updates coming to them (via the phone). One of the 3 reboots 3 - 5 times an hour (lets just say that unit it worthless at the moment). The other two reboot a number of times a day, but you can usually get an hour or two of viewing between reboots.

I'm going to go buy a HD today and put in one of them just to see if that is the issue (but I doubt it based on all the issues others are reporting).

What sucks is I now have to duplicate season passes across tivos just to guarentee that I get one recording of the entire show (or at least two parts that cover the whole show). My wife has had it and I may be moving to the R15 very soon as the pressure from her and the kids is getting very high (and I'm pretty put out about the whole thing too).

What I don't get is I have friends with Series 2 DTivos (never hacked, and they don't read these boards) and they claim they have never seen a reboot. Grrrr


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## 15968

BTW:If someone tells me what to look for in the logs, I'll be happy to look on my hacked DTivos to see if the guide stream stuff is happening again.


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## IcedTivo

Been gone for a cpl weeks and my S1 got 3.5c update and now having reboots especially on recorded stuff. Seems like just as happened last spring with time change thing. Guess it's not lba48 compatible. No network, telnet or ftp access now. I suppose I have to pull drives and redo kernal again? Dang...
kevin


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## jhenry

OK, strange thing...both my SD-DVR40 and DVR80 were having the freezing/rebooting problems. I found that my 80 had failed the last service call and when I tried to force it, it wouldn't connect. I changed the access number to a different one and forced the service call, which was successful. It hasn't rebooted or frozen since. Coincidence? I think so, but I can't figure why the problem went away. On my 40, I tried the same trick, although the access line that wasn't working for the 80, was on the 40. I switched it anyway and forced a call. It was successful, but that didn't help. The 40 is still freezing, usually almost immeadiately after I reset it. Now I'm thinking the hard drive is failing on that unit. My next test will be to disconnect the sat inputs and see if it will stay up while watching recorded shows. At least I'll be able to rule out a buggy guide data stream. Bizarre.


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## bstock

I have a Philips DSR704R. It started rebooting a few days ago. It's happened a few times. Never happened before this. I called DirecTV Customer Support. They had no clue. They started happily talking to me about leasing a new machine and making a 2-year commitment.


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## kalex

bstock said:


> I have a Philips DSR704R. It started rebooting a few days ago. It's happened a few times. Never happened before this. I called DirecTV Customer Support. They had no clue. They started happily talking to me about leasing a new machine and making a 2-year commitment.


I called them again last night and again was told that they aren't getting any reports about this. The solution after I refused to reformat the drive was that they will send out a technician at no charge. I told him that was a waste of money, but they're welcome to try it.

So they still don't see a problem.

And I've also tried JHenry's idea of forcing a redial after changing the phone number. Mine has been rebooting pretty consistently between 5 and 7 PM, so we'll see what happens tonight.


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## wedgecon

Update for my R10 which had been rebooting about once a day since the 6.3e update. Twice it rebooted around 6:30 PM when I was watching Live TV, kinda odd considering the other post mentioning reboots between 5:00 and 7:00 PM. 

I got a new drive from WeaKness and installed it. My software is now 6.1 and for the last two days I have not had any reboots. I have removed the phone line to prevent an update to 6.3e as I don't want to risk the reboots coming back. 

I ran the Western Digital diagnostics on the original 80GB R10 drive and they found nothing wrong with the drive. I know the diagnostics are not 100% sure, but there does seem a strong reason to suspect the 6.3e software. 

My R10 is not hacked in any way other than the new bigger drive in it. 

My Sony SAT-T60 has upgraded to 3.5c and so far appears to have no reboot issues. It also has no hacks other than a 120GB drive.

Hopefully the hard core hackers will be able to find out if there is really anything wrong with the 6.3e update.


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## 15968

Update on my issues. I picked up a 500GB HD ($109 at Circuit City. They forgot to pull the Labor Day sale tag ) and installed it into one of my DirecTivo's (DVR80) that was rebooting every few hours. This was a copy of the 80GB drive to the new 500GB drive (with expanding) as I didn't want to lose my recordings. The box reboots about 45 mins after the new drive was in, and has been rebooting every few hours...

I'm now going to unhook the sat cables from this box tonight and see if the rebooting stops. 

As stated before, mine are Zippered (hacked) so they are not on 6.3, and running the same version they were running since I Zippered them in February '06 (with no problems of rebooting before December '06, and the problem went away in January / February when DTV quit doing the enhanced guide data).

I'm probably going to replace one of these boxes with an R15 by the end of the week (but DTV is going to have to give it to me, I'm not paying for one of those things) just to make the wife happy. I'm sure she'll be frustrated with it not having networking with the other DTivos though (she uses that a lot but doesn't realize it).

So frustrating...


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## tigercat74

I have had no rebooting or freezing problems on my three TIVOS until last night. I was watching live football when a heavy rainstorm hit. Instead of losing the signal like normal, two of them froze up and the other rebooted. I had to unplug the other two to reboot them. All three rebooted twice more during the heavy rain, but after that there has been no problems. These are stock units except for one that had a new hard drive installed when the old one failed. I have no way of knowing what caused this. I posted this in two threads because I did not know which one it should go in.


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## Garth H

Looks like I got 3.5c and have been gifted with reboots as well. Thanks DirecTv...


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## kalex

After the dial in number change and the forced call yesterday afternoon I did not have a reboot last night. But one day is too soon to tell. I'm still waiting for the tech to show up, even though I'm sure there will be nothing he/she can do.

But I suspect there will be a reboot tonight. Months ago I manually set the noon news to record every weekday, start 2 minutes early and save 2 days worth. That way I can watch it a little [even 15 minutes] later if I want. I haven't watched it for a long time, but haven't removed it from the schedule. Today I turned on the TV and receiver about 12:30 to see if it had rebooted. The news was recording, but the screen was blank and the progress bar was stuck at 0. I left it for a few minutes and nothing changed. I hit the LiveTV button to switch tuners and the other channel was at the beginning of the buffer instead of the end. And I couldn't Fast Forward or use the 30 second skip. Flipping back to the news tuner showed no change there. Flipped back to the other tuner and it was back at the beginning of the buffer. I let it run for a few minutes, changed tuners and back, and it was back to the beginning again. And wouldn't Fast Forward. I changed channels [not tuners] and back to that channel and it was correctly on live TV with an empty buffer. The news tuner was still at the beginning and blank. I tried to change channels and it offered me the option of switching the other tuner to the new channel. I canceled and then canceled the recording. The screen stayed blank. I changed channels then, then back and it was on live TV. The recorded show is listed as partial, Duration 0 and is empty. I've seen it do similar things before, but I paid more attention and looked at it harder this time. I'm pretty sure that it's gotten into a snit and will reboot later on.

Since the ToDo list has been mentioned by some people, that might be relevant. If I go to the recording and press Info there are several 'Similar Programs' listed. The title of this one is KING 5 News. The similar programs are KING 5 News, KING 5 News [listed twice, probably the 5 PM and 6:30 PM editions], KING 5 Noon News [which is what this really is], KIRO 7 EW News at 6PM [another station] and KING 5 News at 10 [which is the same station, but they have a sister station and run their news at 10 on the other station, then again at 11 on the primary station]. It's possible that something is getting cross linked and corrupted due to the overlaps. If it reboots tonight [or soon] I'll delete that item from my Season Pass and see if anything changes.

And by the way, unless it reboots while I'm watching it, the only way I know that it's rebooted is that my 30 second skip is gone and I have to reprogram it. Occasionally I'll turn on the TV when I turned the receiver on earlier for buffering and find that I have less buffer than I should, which means it rebooted less than 30 minutes earlier. Other than that I wouldn't be able to tell. So some people may be having reboots that they don't know about.


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## hyde76

:down: the way I tell if my HDVR2's have rebooted is when the clock doesn't show up. S P S 9 S. If the clock is gone then everything else is too. Been happening ever since 6.3e. I'm not loving this...


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## jhenry

To follow up my earlier post, my SD-DVR80 froze yesterday after a couple days of being healthy following the service call. That was the longest it has stayed up since the update.

I unhooked the sat feeds to the SD-DVR40 and my son watched about an hour of recorded shows no problem. I'll have to keep playing with that one tonight to see if it will freeze or reboot without the live feeds.

If this keeps up I'll probably instantcake back to 6.2 and leave the phone line off.

What's the consensus on calling DTV to report the issue? I don't want to waste my time with a frontline CSR if these issues aren't being tallied and filtered up the chain.


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## cdk

jhenry said:


> What's the consensus on calling DTV to report the issue? I don't want to waste my time with a frontline CSR if these issues aren't being tallied and filtered up the chain.


Hard to say.

I explained the situation to the CS rep that many of us with Series2 units were having reboot problems since 6.3x and that I did not want a crappy DVR or a replacement DTiVo. I told her I knew they were having problems with the new guide data and the software to support it and that I just wanted to get the issue logged and "on the record". She then forwarded all the info to her manager. Within the hour, I had an "Activate your TiVo service message" so I know DTV cycled my service.

So far, no reboots while watching live TV or recorded programming. I'm not holding my breath.


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## JSJarvis

I'm seeing random reboots on one DVR and have had a couple of freezes on the other since the upgrade to 6.3e was done. I haven't had any problems with either unit prior to the upgrade. It sounds like DTV isn't even acknowledging there is a problem and from what I've read here there doesn't seem to be a solution. Not sure what to do at this point other than wait and hope that DTV puts out an update (something I don't believe will happen for a while since they are even saying there is a problem).


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## wedgecon

wedgecon said:


> Update for my R10 which had been rebooting about once a day since the 6.3e update. Twice it rebooted around 6:30 PM when I was watching Live TV, kinda odd considering the other post mentioning reboots between 5:00 and 7:00 PM.
> 
> I got a new drive from WeaKness and installed it. My software is now 6.1 and for the last two days I have not had any reboots. I have removed the phone line to prevent an update to 6.3e as I don't want to risk the reboots coming back.
> 
> I ran the Western Digital diagnostics on the original 80GB R10 drive and they found nothing wrong with the drive. I know the diagnostics are not 100% sure, but there does seem a strong reason to suspect the 6.3e software.
> 
> My R10 is not hacked in any way other than the new bigger drive in it.
> 
> My Sony SAT-T60 has upgraded to 3.5c and so far appears to have no reboot issues. It also has no hacks other than a 120GB drive.
> 
> Hopefully the hard core hackers will be able to find out if there is really anything wrong with the 6.3e update.


Update 9/11:

My unit had rebooted again and I checked and the software had updated to 6.3e. I removed the phone line a few hours after going through the guided setup and the initial dial in to activate the DVR service. I thought this would prevent it from upgrading to 6.3e but it did not. This reboot was from the software update, I will continue to monitor to see if the unit goes into the reboot mode again.


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## tigercat74

One of my TIVOs froze up again this morning during a heavy rainstorm. The other two lost signal but did not freeze. The one that did freeze had to be rebooted. This is the only time they reboot since it downloaded the software.


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## Duffycoug

Too bad I didn't realize this is being caused by a DTV software upgrade......I traded in my SD DVR40 for an R15 when it started rebooting 10 times in an hour. So, then I moved my HDVR2 from my bedroom to where my SD DVR40 had been and guess what.....REBOOTS!! I did not have that connected to a phone line upstairs and it worked perfectly...within hours of downloading the new software I have reboots galore. I haven't shipped the SD DVR40 back to DTV yet, and now I'm wondering if I should....does anyone think they will actually fix this problem, or is it being purposely caused to eliminate the TIVO machines and force customers to go to their products and leases?????


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## cdk

Duffycoug said:


> ....does anyone think they will actually fix this problem, or is it being purposely caused to eliminate the TIVO machines and force customers to go to their products and leases?????


With DTV climbing back in bed with TiVo, this does not seem likely. I think they know there are those of us who will not give up our Tivos.


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## Donnele

Ok, I don't post that often, but read...  

Like everyone else here We are to now having re-boots. We don't have a "Hacked" one.. just upgraded from weaknees a bigger drive a year ago.

Software vers 6.3e  

Hope there is a fix soon... very frustrating.


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## wedgecon

wedgecon said:


> Update 9/11:
> 
> My unit had rebooted again and I checked and the software had updated to 6.3e. I removed the phone line a few hours after going through the guided setup and the initial dial in to activate the DVR service. I thought this would prevent it from upgrading to 6.3e but it did not. This reboot was from the software update, I will continue to monitor to see if the unit goes into the reboot mode again.


Update 9/12/2007

My unit rebooted agian at 5:36 PM just as selected the option to see the "to do list". This must be a software problem with 6.3e, the chances of two bad drives are just so nil. This new drive was fine for two days until 6.3 was re applied.

Is there a way to revert the software back and still keep the recordings?


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## MacPrince

Two more data points for the thread: my SIR-4080R and my brother's DVR708 both got 6.3e not long ago. His has spontaneously rebooted twice since the upgrade, and mine just rebooted for the first time today. 

Come on, TiVo guys, get it right, please!


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## 15968

We almost need to split this thread. It appears the 6.3e has a problem. But then some of us have been dealing with this (off and on) since last December before 6.3 was out for DirecTiVos. Or could be that 6.3e is more likely to hit the error some of us were seeing with the enhanced guide data (or could be its just the enhanced guide data and people are blaming 6.3e since its a recent change).

I'm going to be calling DTV tonight to log complaints and see what they will do about it (yeah right). I'll probably have a new R15 out of this deal, but right now, if it gets my wife and kids off my back over the reboots, I'll be happy. My wife is livid as it is now happening so often for us (you are almost sure to see a reboot if you watch 2 hours of tv on any of my 3 boxes (including the one I just put a brand new HD in))


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## joeinma

My unit has been rebooting at least once a day for the last week or two, usually between 1:30 and 2:30 in the afternoon. I know this because I have a Slingbox and have been watching from work every day during that time when it reboots.

Anyway, today it reboots and then gives me a message about satellite not connecting..something like that, it was only on screen for a few seconds. Then it went to live TV on channel 201 rather than the last channel. I did the on-screen guide and it showed my first channel as 100! All my locals were gone! I forced another reboot and then it was fine...that was definitely a first.

With the new TV starting in the next week or so, I am really going to be pissed if one of these reboots happens at night and screws up a recording.

Edit:

Even weirder...since I am watching from work when the reboots happen, after the reboot, the recorded program I am watching is back at the beginning rather than at the "resume" stage. This time, thanks to the double reboot...it's at the same spot I was. Weird.


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## bstock

I just got off the phone (again) with DirecTV, which continues to deny any knowledge of the problem. One thing that confuses me is which units it's happening with. As I mentioned in another post, I have a Philips DSR 704R/17. The rep at DTV said that it's only happening with R15s. I pointed out that it's certainly happening with R10s as well. Frankly, I don't understand the differences between the different models and designations.

Is this happening with only certain kinds of units? Which ones? Why? It's hard to rebut what DTV spouts if I don't really understand the nomenclature.

Thanks.


----------



## wedgecon

bstock said:


> I just got off the phone (again) with DirecTV, which continues to deny any knowledge of the problem. One thing that confuses me is which units it's happening with. As I mentioned in another post, I have a Philips DSR 704R/17. The rep at DTV said that it's only happening with R15s. I pointed out that it's certainly happening with R10s as well. Frankly, I don't understand the differences between the different models and designations.
> 
> Is this happening with only certain kinds of units? Which ones? Why? It's hard to rebut what DTV spouts if I don't really understand the nomenclature.
> 
> Thanks.


I think it is happening with all series 2 standard definition DirecTivo's of which the R10 was the last model produced. A list of all DirecTivo models sold can be found here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TiVo_DVRs

The R15 is based on an OS developed by NDS for DirecTV and while it is a dual tuner DVR it does not run TiVo Software. When Rupert Murdoch owned DirecTV he made the decesion to stop producing DirecTivo's and to develop a new DVR from NDS which he also owns.


----------



## chuckg

Reboots since 6.3e on my unit #1
8/31/07 ~ 7 pm
9/05/07 8:55 pm *Lost Satellite message* very briefly before reboot
9/06/07 Powered down for >30 minutes while house cleaning
9/07/07 4:01 pm Heard what sounded like *heads retracting* just before reboot
9/12/07 7:34 pm Watching recorded show near its end. Restarted at 7 minutes in where I had previously paused.

*Lost Satellite message* could be an indication of power supply drop out
*heads retracting* could be an indication of power supply drop out


----------



## bstock

wedgecon said:


> I think it is happening with all series 2 standard definition DirecTivo's of which the R10 was the last model produced. A list of all DirecTivo models sold can be found here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TiVo_DVRs
> 
> The R15 is based on an OS developed by NDS for DirecTV and while it is a dual tuner DVR it does not run TiVo Software. When Rupert Murdoch owned DirecTV he made the decesion to stop producing DirecTivo's and to develop a new DVR from NDS which he also owns.


Thanks, that helps. So, theoretically, my Philips shouldn't be that different from DirecTV's R10. Both are Series 2. Both run TiVo. Philips manufactures mine, and DirecTV (or someone else if it's just a brand) manufactures the R10. My unit is 3 years old. Maybe the R10s are newer.

DirecTV told me to reformat my hard drive. I refused, based on the messages here and on DTV's forum that resetting the hard drive doesn't help.

Of course, I have no idea what to do to resolve the problem. My guess is when enough people complain, DirecTV will fix it and download a patch. In the meantime, I suppose I'll continue to suffer.


----------



## wedgecon

wedgecon said:


> Update 9/12/2007
> 
> My unit rebooted agian at 5:36 PM just as selected the option to see the "to do list". This must be a software problem with 6.3e, the chances of two bad drives are just so nil. This new drive was fine for two days until 6.3 was re applied.
> 
> Is there a way to revert the software back and still keep the recordings?


Update 9/15/2007

Well it has been 2.5 days or so and my R10 has not rebooted, so maybe there is hope yet.

I had been looking at the system information screen to see if there were any correlation between service downloads, dvr downloads, indexing and garbage collection. I did not find any but I did notice something about the DVR or Tivo service call. When the DirecTivo's first came out they used to make a call every day then over time that was changed to every 2 or 3 days then at one point it would go almost a week between calls. Now it appears that my R10 is scheduling a call every day while my SAT-60 makes a call every 2 or 3 days.


----------



## rwilliams

I have a Philips 704 and it's the same as you all are complaining about. Random reboots and as of last Saturday (the 8th) the unit just locks up at the WELCOME screen. **THIS IS AN UMMODIFIED UNIT**

Not certain what the software rev was at the time, but it WAS connected to the phone line.

It REALLY p!55es me off that everything was working just fine, DTV sends an update, and WHACK! I'm out $$$ No doubt about it, this is going to cost me one way or another. Either I'm going to have to be forced into an inferior DVR (which I refuse to do) and be stuck in a contract for 2 years, or I'm going to make the move to the competition. On Demand Cable with HD is looking real good (not really) about right now...

I think we should all band together and contact our local news media Problem Solvers (Target 5 investigation here in Chicago) and report this - I bet there are thousands more users just like us, with un-modded DTivos who think their hard drives just crashed and opted to go along with the CSRs suggestion and get a new box from DirecTV - one that doesn't have Tivo.

Think about it. I don't care what anyone says about DTV playing nicey-nice with Tivo now that their disputes are "Settled" - drive enough users away from the Tivo brand and guess what? Tivo goes bye-bye. They've been having a rough go at it as it is. Then for THIS to happen - it's catastrophic!

I'm not a litigious natured person by any means (I don't even think I spelled that correctly), but this has CLASS ACTION written all over it!

I'm so angry over this...


----------



## ForrestB

rwilliams,

Sounds like a hard drive failure - not DirecTV's problem. Just like it's not your computer manufacturer's problem if the hard drive dies after the warranty has expired.

To fix it, install a new, reimaged hard drive.


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## mdzenk

Have an HDVR2 that's probably at least 4+ years old. Like yours, the unit started rebooting various times during the day, sometimes while watching recorded shows, sometimes not. Did a little online research which indicated the drive may be starting to go bad and the drive errors were causing the reboot. I like the DirecTV/Tivo combo I have so decided to try replacing my drive -- what the heck, out of warranty anyway. Ordered a 300GB replacement from WeaKnees for the 35G original drive. Great instructions and it only took 10 minutes to replace the drive -- a little longer to put all the Season Pass info back in -- but now have 10X the storage...AND the unit hasn't rebooted a single time in the 4 weeks since...


----------



## Duffycoug

ForrestB said:


> rwilliams,
> 
> Sounds like a hard drive failure - not DirecTV's problem. Just like it's not your computer manufacturer's problem if the hard drive dies after the warranty has expired.
> 
> To fix it, install a new, reimaged hard drive.


That's a bunch of BS....DTV is the cause of the problem with their "software" not all of our hard drives that were working 100% fine until they received the most recent update.....thousands of dvr hard drives suddenly go bad all at the same time after showing no signs of any problems....oh, but it's not the fact that they all received the most recent software upgrade...LOL....you have any bridges you want to sell me?


----------



## chuckg

mdzenk said:


> Have an HDVR2 that's probably at least 4+ years old. Like yours, the unit started rebooting various times during the day, sometimes while watching recorded shows, sometimes not. Did a little online research which indicated the drive may be starting to go bad and the drive errors were causing the reboot. I like the DirecTV/Tivo combo I have so decided to try replacing my drive -- what the heck, out of warranty anyway. Ordered a 300GB replacement from WeaKnees for the 35G original drive. Great instructions and it only took 10 minutes to replace the drive -- a little longer to put all the Season Pass info back in -- but now have 10X the storage...AND the unit hasn't rebooted a single time in the 4 weeks since...


Bought 2 HDs from Weaknees on 6/19/07. Installed 7/2/07. Nary a problem until 6.3e activated in late August. Both units Restarting. #1 unit last night at 9:00 pm PDT while watching TV on #2 unit.


----------



## wedgecon

wedgecon said:


> Update 9/15/2007
> 
> Well it has been 2.5 days or so and my R10 has not rebooted, so maybe there is hope yet.
> 
> I had been looking at the system information screen to see if there were any correlation between service downloads, dvr downloads, indexing and garbage collection. I did not find any but I did notice something about the DVR or Tivo service call. When the DirecTivo's first came out they used to make a call every day then over time that was changed to every 2 or 3 days then at one point it would go almost a week between calls. Now it appears that my R10 is scheduling a call every day while my SAT-60 makes a call every 2 or 3 days.


Update 9/18/2007

My unit rebooted last night (9/17/2007) around 6:45 PM while watching a recorded show. I guess the reboots have not really gone away. Sign....I guess I will have to restore it to an earlier version. As been previously stated this hast to be a software problem. The reboots did not start until the 6.3e software, I replaced the drive with a new one, the unit was fine with 6.1 and only started rebooting agian after 6.3e was downloaded.


----------



## ForrestB

Duffycoug said:


> That's a bunch of BS....DTV is the cause of the problem with their "software" not all of our hard drives that were working 100% fine until they received the most recent update.....thousands of dvr hard drives suddenly go bad all at the same time after showing no signs of any problems....oh, but it's not the fact that they all received the most recent software upgrade...LOL....you have any bridges you want to sell me?


I've read recently there are MILLIONS of DirecTivo's still subscribed. Since these machines are 3-7 years old and assuming the average Tivo hard drive lasts 5 years, then thousands of DirecTivo failures would indeed be caused by a hard drive failure. Makes sense.


----------



## Duffycoug

ForrestB said:


> I've read recently there are MILLIONS of DirecTivo's still subscribed. Since these machines are 3-7 years old and assuming the average Tivo hard drive lasts 5 years, then thousands of DirecTivo failures would indeed be caused by a hard drive failure. Makes sense.


Yes, all within the same two week period, too, correct?

Just a tip for ya ForrestB, be happy if you're not having this problem...the only reason you wouldn't be is if you don't own one of these units or you own one that's not running 6.3e....otherwise, you'd be in the same boat....new hard drive or not. Just read two posts down and you'll surely recognize that fact.


----------



## wedgecon

ForrestB said:


> rwilliams,
> 
> Sounds like a hard drive failure - not DirecTV's problem. Just like it's not your computer manufacturer's problem if the hard drive dies after the warranty has expired.
> 
> To fix it, install a new, reimaged hard drive.


I already did that, what do you suggest I do next?


----------



## markbox

markbox said:


> Hughes SD-DVR40 here, solid unit for years, got 6.3e not too long ago and was having reception problems as if the sat signal was having problems or dish was moving in the wind but no wind was present. Then last night, while watching TV, the system just reboots, then reboots again, then reboots again, over and over. It won't operate for more than 10 minutes without rebooting. It will also just lock up and require a power off/power on.
> 
> So, since I have 5 drives for this unit I plugged in a 120 Gig with 6.2 software and left it running overnight. Seems to be working just fine, no reboots, no reception problems. So, not a chassis problem. Could still be a hardrive problem with my 300 Gig drive though (with lots of unwatched programs)
> 
> Guess it's time to get a 500Gig drive and clone it from my 120 with 6.2 software and unplug the damn phone line. sigh...
> 
> I hope DirecTV comes out with a software fix cause I'd hate to loose all those unwatched programs. But how would I get the software fix when the system isn't stable enough to stay operational for more than 10 minutes?


Update on my situation...

I've been having multiple issues with my Hughes SD-DVR40 (upgraded with 300Gb harddrive, no hacks) since the 6.3e software update. The unit would reboot within 10 minutes of receiving guide data from the sat network and severe pixilation on some channels. No prior issues with this unit over many years of operation.

To make a long story (and weekend) short, I discovered that I couldn't connect to the DVR service via the phone connection. It would either fail or be interrupted by a reboot. I read in another thread that someone was able to avoid the reboots by disconnecting the coax connections to the dish which allowed them to watch shows in their Now Playing list without being interrupted by a reboot. I tried this technique and it worked. Without the coax cables to the dish connected I watched a few hours of recorded programs. I then realized I might be able to dial in to the DVR service via the phone line now that the system was not rebooting.

So, with the coax cables to the dish disconnected I powered up the system and dialed into the DVR service and it worked! I then put the unit into standby, powered down and re-attached the coax cables to the dish. On power up the guide data downloaded from the sat network and the system rebooted within 10 minutes. I was mildly disappointed but not surprised. However, after that reboot, the system appears to have stayed up without rebooting since that point in time. I have no real way of telling if I've had reboots but every time I've checked the unit the 30 minute buffer on both tuners was full and I monitored the system all day Sunday (using a second TV) while watching football on my HD receiver.

Note: I also stopped the pixilation issue by disconnecting my S-VHS and matching left/right audio outputs that conneced to my TV (suggested in another thread). Crazy but it worked!

My opinion is that the 6.3e software combined with the data that comes down from the sat network is responsible for the reboots. I'd very much like to know the root cause of this problem. I'm also wondering if the new 6.3e software/kernel has any sort of voltage/amp monitoring (IPMI?) that may have been introduced or had its threshold values changed between 6.2 and 6.3e and is now causing some systems exhibiting unclean power conditions to reboot. I doubt these systems are that robust nor do I see how a reboot would fix a power problem.

I don't want to call DirecTV for support because I'm concerned that saying "hi" to a CSR will result in a new 2 year commitment! ha ha.


----------



## Pt121

I have two units doing the reboot thing. I have the Samsung upstairs and the Phillips downstairs. Well after clearing everything and resetting both units....well yes they are both still rebooting. I call DirecTV and they want to give me the leased units with the 2 year commitment and an additional $4.99/Month. The conversation went as: Directv: Oh, I see you own your units, you will have to upgrade to the newer leased ones and you'll have to pay an additional $4.99/month to lease them. I asked, what about the warranty I've been paying for since I got the units? Well that is why we'll just send you the new units, but with a 2 year commitment as well as an additional charge a month. I asked if the charge was per unit and she couldn't tell me. She just said she would transfer me over to get the new units and you'll find out then. Well, I guess I lost it at that point cause I just slammed the phone down.

One of the units is only 2 years old and the other about a year and a half. I do not accept that the drives are going out on both units at the same time the last update 6.3e came out. You might have convinced me if I just had one, but both units at the same time.....I think not.

Why can't they just roll back the software version to stop the problems until they have worked out the bugs?

Now today, I pulled the plug again on the Samsung unit and connected it to the wall outlet instead of the quality surge protector I have. I really don't believe it has anything to do with it, but what the hay. I also moved the Aspen switch around a bit, that is hanging by the wires over the railing of my deck. At this point and time it has yet to reboot, but this is not abnormal since every once it a while it will stay up. While I was messing around with the switch, I noticed the Power Supply, for the switch, seems to be coming apart. It is bolted to the wall just underneath my siding. I put it there after they installed the switch some time ago....the Tech that installed it just basically laid it on the deck. That would have resulted in a real problem. I could see myself shoveling snow off the deck and just cutting it in half. 


Well, my venting is over right now.

Patrick


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## chrishicks

I'm just about ready to dump DirecTV. I now have enough SA Tivos(see sig) to cover anything I'd ever want to record now via Comcast. I just replaced the hard drive(in case the drive was actually going bad and not due to the update) in one of my DirecTV Tivos due to constant reboots immediately after getting the 6.3e update. I do not have the phone line connected to that one now. 

my second DTivo is still on 6.2a and has been having major audio dropouts. I checked and double checked all connections. I have dropouts with both analog and digital. as soon as I get everything watched on this box I'm going to reboot it to see if it fixes the audio problem. if it doesn't I'm changing the drive. I have a brand new 300Gb drive already sitting here. I am also going to let this box update to 6.3e and watch for issues. if they show up I'll give it a month to see if its fixed. if not, I think I'll cancel my service.


----------



## Marrelli

markbox said:


> I have no real way of telling if I've had reboots but every time I've checked the unit the 30 minute buffer on both tuners was full and I monitored the system all day Sunday (using a second TV) while watching football on my HD receiver.


 I don't have the reboots as bad as others. Maybe three since 6.3e. But, one thing I've noticed since 6.3e:

I usually put one or both tuners on channels that do not exist, usually 905 & 906 when not in standby mode, just figuring that they won't write to the disk needlessly as to get a longer life out of the HD. Before 6.3e, the 30 minute buffer would always be empty, after 6.3e - it might take hours, but eventually they will display full 30 minute buffers even though they won't rewind. And how can there be a buffer for a channel that does not exist?


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## wedgecon

One user at dbsforums has noticed something interesting....

http://www.dbsforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=75530

Basically he thinks it has something to do with the ABC stations.

But my R10 is not an HD receiver so I do not think it applies to me, but interesting in showing how 6.3e might handle other guide problems.

Others seem to think that the new sat launched into orbit could be an issue as the receivers are supposed to reboot if they get any bad guide data.


----------



## Pt121

Well, I'm going to go ahead and get myself a 160GB hard drive from Tiger(Seagate) and purchase Instantcake software and set me up a replacement drive for my one unit. I'll see how that goes.

Now, I know what I'm doing with a PC, but as far as the Tivo goes...... Does the guide get updated from the modem or directly from sat? The software update, is that what gets updated from the modem?

Thanks
Patrick


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## wedgecon

The guide and software updates come from the sat. The modem is only used to upload information about the shows you watch to TiVo and pay per views. A phone call is also required to activate a new software version downloaded by the sat.


----------



## rwilliams

ForrestB said:


> rwilliams,
> 
> Sounds like a hard drive failure - not DirecTV's problem. Just like it's not your computer manufacturer's problem if the hard drive dies after the warranty has expired.
> 
> To fix it, install a new, reimaged hard drive.


Save the condescending response, but I have to agree with others on the forum that this is too much of a coincidence.

I remedied the problem by installing a drive with an older (6.2a) image and things work fine now. No way I'm plugging the phone line in.

I'm going to get back to my life now, already in progress...


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## Pt121

Well, I have decided to get my Drive from DVRupgrade. I'm going with the 250GB version. They say it comes with software version 6.2a, how do I keep it from updating to 6.3e?

Thanks
Patrick


----------



## phox_mulder

Knocking on wood here, but I haven't seen a reboot in over a week.

Both my R10 and HR10 suffered through at least a reboot a day after getting the new software, most of the time rebooting while I was watching something.

I have no missed recordings, and my 30 second skip has stuck, indicating no reboots.


phox


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## ForrestB

PT121,
Just don't attach your phone line to the Directivo and it won't update the software.


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## Mitchell2038

I have posted a small article on the problem especially since I started having the problems this past week. While my site doesnt get much traffic there are other sites that rip off the information I post so lets see if this escalates a little over the next month.

freshscoop is my site.

For me my unit has been rebooting every night on the hour or half hour and the last 2 nights at nearly exactly 11:30. Something only software/direct tv could cause not a hard drive problem. When I called direct tv the night prior about this they like everyone else have not heard of the problem and tried to tell me the unit is possibly failing and I should consider getting a replacement unit for the $20.00 refurb or $100+20shipping refurbished.

Im sorry to say this but I kind of feel this is Direct TV's way of eliminating TIVO's from thier system with intermittent and annoying issues that sporadically happen. The regular person is not going to check these forums and is going to call direct tv and think thier unit is failing and get a leased unit from Direct TV.

Looks like I am going to dish network soon unless they correct this fast. I dont feel its my responsibility to put in a new drive to correct thier mistakes or as I feel their motive to eliminate TIVO's.


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## robpickles

I just had the starangest thing happen to me.

First off let me say my R10 has also been having reboots since getting 6.3e.

It's been rebooting pretty steadily once a day or every other day at around the same time frame - between 5:00 pm and 7 pm.

I also am starting to beleive that these reboots are NOT a coincidence. I find it odd that everytime someone calls to complain or report a problem, DirecTv doesn't know anything about it, never heard of a similar problem from anyone else when we know it has already been reported a number of times and that they are trying to switch out our Tivos for their crappy R15 DVR.

But to get back to the 'strange' thing that happened to me a little while ago. I was watching Star Trek Voyager on Spike and right after it was over I had to go to the pharmacy to pick up some medicine. There was a second part of a two-parter coming on so I figured I'd record it and catch up when I got back.

Anyway, I went to record it and all of a sudden it kicked back to the beginning of the 30 minute buffer Tivo records while watching live tv. I thought I accidentily hit the skip key but I had not. When I went to reset it back to real time it wouldn't reset and jumped back to the head of the recorded buffer again (and it didnt jump like normal or beep like it would if I had done it). I tried it again and it did the same thing again. So I chocked it up to the quirkiness of the unit and shut down.

When I got back from the pharmacy I turned the Tivo back on and noticed the same 30 minute buffer was playing YET AGAIN. How could this be? I was out for at least 20 minutes or so and it had to have shifted into the next 30 minute segment of the channels that were left on. I decided to change both channels to totally different channels and try to reset all the buffers manually. Well.. this worked. Both channel buffers reset and i went back to Spike and started watching the 2nd episode of Voyager in real time.

I just thought this was a very odd quirk and thought it might be related to the reboot problem somehow. I came up with this theory because now it is almost 6pm and the Tivo hasn't reset tonight ...yet.

Is it possible that the 'update' causes the buffer to fill up and lag then lock up the unit somehow causing the Tivo to have to reboot itself? It's weird that they always happen around the same time of day and within hour or half hour moments.

What do you think? Regardless I think we need to start seriously questioning what DirecTv is doing with their updates and if their is some alterior motive going on here.

Rob


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## Pt121

Mitchell2038 said:


> For me my unit has been rebooting every night on the hour or half hour and the last 2 nights at nearly exactly 11:30. Something only software/direct tv could cause not a hard drive problem.


Wow, this is strange indeed. Both of my Tivo units have been rebooting since the update, but the one in our bedroom is a Samsung 4080 and it also will reboot between 10:30 and 11:30 every night. My wife jokes about it. I'll have something I've been watching and about 20 minutes of it is buffered and she tells me I better get to real time quickly or else. It's like clockwork, every night around this time frame.

Wow, unbelievable!

Patrick


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## 86285

I'm also experiencing the reboot since getting updated to 6.3e, and I too don't believe it's a hard drive problem (I replaced mine shortly after getting the unit...).

I have a theory that I'd like to bounce off you folks: My "Service Number" begins with "351" which I figure is a code for the model and type of unit I own because the "Software Version" for my DTivo always ended in "351" also. This time, it ends in "151" and my theory is that they downloaded the software for the wrong model to my DTivo.

I'm wondering if the only ones who are having the reboot problems are people who have "351" receivers but got the "151" software.

Sound plausible?

PS: I am also getting the strange buffer behavior that robpickles was getting - I've actually hung the unit for several seconds trying to recover, and the only way I was able to recover was to get off the channel and go to something like a music channel, then go back again. I thought I was the only one...


----------



## Pt121

Well, my Phillips DSR708's Build number ends in 101 whereas the Samsung Sir-S4080R's build number ends in 381. They both have rebooting problems. However, the Samsung is far worse then the Phillips unit.

Earlier today I pulled the plug on the Samsung to plug it back into the surge protector. I put it directly in the wall as a test to see if it would still reboot and it did, so I just returned it. I knew it wouldn't make any difference, but thought I'd just give it a try. Unfortunately when the system rebooted when I plugged it back in, I ended up with a Big Green Screen informing me of a Severe Error and to leave the system on with everything connected for 3 hrs. so that the unit may repair itself....hopefully. So, when I got back home it was up and running so I guess it did. But, I just believe this is a further indication of a hard drive problem. I still believe the Software update had something to do with it.

As far as the buffer issue. I've seen some strange behavior out of the Samsung unit since the update. Usually, when I turned it back on, the 30 minutes that was already there, from when I last had it on, I could rewind back over it. Since the update though, if you attempt to rewind over the buffer that was there it kicks you back to the beginning of that buffer. You can not back track over it, it will just make you start from the front. I noticed this when I first turned on the system one day and saw something interesting within the first few minutes of what was on and rewound it a bit, and as soon as it hit the previous buffer, it just shot back to the beginning. It is quite annoying. The Phillips unit does not exhibit the same behavior after the update though. It just reboots.

Thanks
Patrick


----------



## 86285

It sounds like there may be more than one specific problem with this release.

Mine's a Hughes SD-DVR40 (upgraded with a 120GB drive), which is the good old "series 2" DirecTV TiVo. I have a friend with a similar unit (also modified with a larger disk), but he's got a service number that begins with 151 and software release that ends with 151 and his is not rebooting. That's what has me thinking that many people who are rebooting (including me) have the software for the wrong model on their DTivo.

The theory in another forum about "unknown satellite guide data" forcing a system reboot is also interesting. There were a bunch of spontaneous reboots happening about a year or so ago that magically went away after a bunch of people complained. It could be that they started sending new info from the satellite and they forgot to include the handling of it in this new release. However, this doesn't account for the instances of people with the new release that aren't having any problems at all.

I bet that the buffer issue is going to end up being a common problem among all the DTivo systems with the new software release. That sounds like a bug. A lot of people may use the system just a little differently and may not see it as easily.

What bugs me about DirecTV is their unwillingness to admit there's a problem and just fix it. I know that the first place I turn is here to get help and never to customer support unless I have a desire to be treated like an idiot and end up more frustrated than when I started. Unfortunately, unless there's a way to get these reports to DirecTV, there's no way for them to know there's a problem to fix it.

Hopefully we'll get some more data points to see if I'm onto something...

-- Gil.


----------



## hglr

I have a Hughes HDVR2 Series 2 DirectTivo which died two days ago. I don't know for certain what version of the software it was running (and I can't tell now), but I suspect it had recently updated. This was the stock 40GB hard drive, plus a 160GB hard drive that I bought from Weaknees a year or two ago. No software hacks at all.

I agree that it is too much of a coincidence that all of these hard drives have died within the last month.

Anyway, here is what I did to get back in business:
1) Went to Best Buy and purchased a Seagate 500 GB hard drive (model ST3500641A, Ultra ATA/100, aka PATA, 7200 rpm, 16MB cache -- nice drive with a 5 year warranty). This is currently $169, but it is supposed to go on sale this weekend for $99, and Best Buy will refund the difference if I go back in with my receipt while the sale is on.
2) Went to Microcenter and purchased a DLink DUB-E100 USB-to-Ethernet adapter for $30.
3) Went to DVRUpgrade (the forum won't let me post a URL, just Google it) and downloaded their InstantCake and PTVnet software as ISO files ($20 each, total $40)
4) Burned the ISO files to two CDs ($0.10 each, total $0.20)
5) (Here's the hardest part, but it is really fairly easy) Opened up one of my PCs and disconnected the existing hard drives. I moved the little jumper on the back of the hard drive to the Master pin (there is a picture on the top of the drive showing how to do this) and temporarily plugged in the power and IDE cable to the new 500 GB Seagate drive. I restarted the machine with the PTVnet CD in the CDROM drive, which boots into the dvrupgrade imaging scripts. They are really simple to follow. The only thing which could be tricky is figuring out how your hard drive is connected (most likely "hda", the first ) and how your CDROM is connected (most likely "hdc"). Besides that, just follow their prompts, inserting the other CDROM when prompted for it.
6) Disconnect the Seagate, and open up the DirecTivo. I removed the two drives and replaced them with the single 500GB drive.
7) Close it back up, and plug it into the TV and satellite.
8) Plug it in, cross fingers, and wait. After 5-10 minutes, you'll be back online.
9) Powered off my DirectTivo (unplugged it), hooked up the DLink ethernet adapter in the lower USB port, and restarted the Tivo. It registered itself on the network, and now I have access to my Tivo via any browser in my house. To be honest, I don't know how useful this will be, but what the heck, it sounds cool to have a "Hacked" Tivo.

So, after the Best Buy refund, I'll be out $100+$30+$20+$20+$0.10+$0.10 = $170.20 (plus a little tax), but I have a working DirecTivo with 481 hours of recording capability and the version 6.2a software that will not automatically update. (That's right -- when I installed PTVnet, it offered the option to prevent automatic updates in the future.) It took me about 8 hours to research software and hardware and install it. I'd guess somebody could use my recommendations for hardware and have everything running in about an hour.

I could have eliminated $50 of that if I hadn't messed with the ethernet and web interface, and I probably could have found a drive for as cheap as $50. So I only blame DirecTV for costing me $50+$20 (for the InstantCake software). I'm still miffed, but I can get on with my life.

I hope this info helps someone else.

- Steve

P.S. I still have the original two drives untouched, if some DirectTV tech would like to examine them and figure out what is going wrong.


----------



## mhn2

I can't remember, does version 6.2a have folders? And, do you have to install PTVnet in order to prevent automatic updates? That would be nice, but I don't have any use for the networking features. Also, I would like to be able to get the announced DirecTiVo upgrade early next year.


----------



## 86285

It's been a while since I've looked into these mods: I thought with the PTV mods to the series2 DTivos, you can't keep the programs that you've recorded (it bypasses the encryption or something like that, so the old encrypted programs can no longer be viewed). Is this still the case?

I don't object to DirecTV upgrading my system if they'd do the proper regression testing before they released the software. This is the second time they've effectively crippled my system because of a bad upgrade. They're getting as bad, if not worse, than cable.


----------



## robpickles

gkloepfer said:


> I am also getting the strange buffer behavior that robpickles was getting - I've actually hung the unit for several seconds trying to recover, and the only way I was able to recover was to get off the channel and go to something like a music channel, then go back again. I thought I was the only one...


Well it happened again to me when I got home from work. This time it was about 3:30pm though.

I turned on my DirecTivo and it was already tuned to Spike from last night and the buffer was again a half-hour behind and locked up in the quirky way.

I changed both channels to completely alternate stations and once again it cleared up the buffers.

My service number begins with '521' and my software version ends in '521'. So i am not sure if that is a factor.

Rob


----------



## chuckg

I had the same strange buffer problems described above. Both units started doing it on or after 6.3e activated. If different channels were selected, one channel had to be changed to clear that channel for normal operation. The other channel just melded yesterdays last :30 minutes with the new data. Moving back and forth worked fine.

BTW, occasionally both tuners will be on the same channel even though I always leave them on separate channels. Power up.... leaves both tuners on the same channel. I assume it has powered up while in standby mode.

But I solved all these problems by going back to my original worn out old decrepit 3 year old hard drives running 6.2a.


----------



## rbtravis

I have read this post before here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=366626

Are you creating multiple posts to try and magnify any problems?
I will now disregard any further posts by you. We come here trying to fix problems not to cause them.


----------



## phox_mulder

I guess I didn't knock on the right type of wood.

My R10 rebooted last night while I was watching, and while it was recording.
I now have a recording split in half, and missing 6 minutes, haven't gotten one of those in a while.

Later in the evening I had switched over to the HR10 and it rebooted right in the middle of watching something as well, it wasn't recording though.

Time to rethink my fall season passes and move as much as possible over to the S3.


phox


----------



## robpickles

rbtravis said:


> I have read this post before here:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=366626
> 
> Are you creating multiple posts to try and magnify any problems?
> I will now disregard any further posts by you. We come here trying to fix problems not to cause them.


I think you are just one of those people who like to start trouble rbtravis.

We report our problems here when they happen and when looking for answers. Not everyone sees every post before writing one of their own. And what does that thread you linked have ANYTHING to do with what was being discussed here??

All the posts I have seen from you lately have been nothing but *****ing about people talking about their issues. If YOU don't have any - we are happy for you, but don't come on here and annoy us.

If you don't want to help that's fine - just don't make an ass of yourself by continuing to make stupid comments.

Rob


----------



## Duffycoug

robpickles said:


> I think you are just one of those people who like to start trouble rbtravis.
> 
> We report our problems here when they happen and when looking for answers. Not everyone sees every post before writing one of their own. And what does that thread you linked have ANYTHING to do with what was being discussed here??
> 
> All the posts I have seen from you lately have been nothing but *****ing about people talking about their issues. If YOU don't have any - we are happy for you, but don't come on here and annoy us.
> 
> If you don't want to help that's fine - just don't make an ass of yourself by continuing to make stupid comments.
> 
> Rob


AMEN!


----------



## mboge

I'm going to jump in here, too. I've got 3 Series-2 DircTivos (models and details at the end of this post).

Anyway, my wife's been claiming that at least every day for the last couple of weeks or so (and sometimes multiple times a day) she's turned on the TV and the "Welcoming Up" messages are on *all three* Tivos.

I found it hard to believe that all three TiVos would reboot at the same time. At first, I thought it might be that the plug that they were all plugged into might be loose -- or the outlet bad -- but that wasn't it. Then I remembered that two of them are on a UPS and there was no indication that the power to the UPS was lost.

I found this thread and realized that I'm not the only one experiencing this problem and learned that it may be a result of a new software upgrade. So I checked my Tivos and found out that only 1 has the 6.3e software (the others have 6.2a).

Now, here's the kicker: As I was typing this message they all rebooted again! And I noticed that it happened a split-second after my wife turned on the vacuum cleaner. Hmmmmmm. After they booted up, I had her turn the vacuum on again and sure enough, they all rebooted again. I then had her plug it into another outlet (neither of them sharing an outlet with the TiVo... but they are on the same circuit.) She turned it on and boom, the rebooted again. I put the vacuum on a different circuit, turned it on and no reboots.

So, at least I found the source of the reboots, but this has never happened before, and what's up with the UPS? I'm not kidding, my wife vacuums at least once a day (we have a golden retriever) and I have never seen this happen before.

I'm going to go look for an inexpensive power cleaner (if they exist!)... I guess they must make them integrated with UPS. (Any recommendations here would be greatly appreciated).

Here are the specs of my three TiVos... perhaps someone out there can piece the puzzle together:

TiVo1 (No mods)
Manufacturer Brand: 100
Platform: Series 2
IRD Model: R52180
Software Version: 6.3e-01-2-521

TiVo 2 (Upgraded and Mods)
Manufacturer Brand: RCA
Platform: Series 2
IRD Model: DVR80
Software Version: 6.2a-01-2-321

TiVo 3 (Upgrades and Mods)
Manufacturer Brand: Philips
Platform: Series 2
IRD Model: DSR7000/17
Software Version: 6.2a-01-2-101

If you need any more info, I'll be glad to oblige!

- Matt


----------



## phox_mulder

Both of mine are on seperate UPS's plugged into the same plug though.

The times I've seen mine reboot have been around 7:30pm, and 1am-ish.

No one is vacuuming, air conditioner has been shut off for hours by the time 1am rolls around, no one using the washer or dryer, and fridge is on a different circuit.

I still blame DirecTV, either the software or the guide data errors overfilling the logs.


phox


----------



## chrishicks

for those thinking a power issue...I have my HT on its own circuit. I use a Belkin PureAV PF60 Power Conditioner (this one here: http://catalog.belkin.com/PureAV_detail.process?Product_Id=178925 ) as well as having my units on a UPS. I had reboots starting the day I received 6.3e on one of my units. I can monitor the line voltage on both my conditioner and the UPS by their displays and the voltage was never dropping too low or too high. I don't think it's a power issue unless your circuit is overloaded in the first place.


----------



## bootsboy9

Last night and this afternoon my RCA Dvr35 rebooted while I was in the Showcases menu.When I clicked on the icon for the new fall season of ABC,opens to a black screen,then starts too break up then goes right into the gray Powering up screen......check it out ?.


----------



## Pt121

I have two units rebooting daily. Both of these units are on separate circuits. The one in my bedroom(Samsung 4080R) does it just about every night around 10:30-11:30. I have a Monster Surge protector of which the Tivo, Panasonic 42" Plasma, and my PS3 are on. The circuit tha they are on is dedicated. I ran this to the breaker panel myself. The only thing that is ever on when it happens is the TV and the Tivo box. Unless of coarse it does it in standby mode. The downstairs unit is also on a deicated circuit and on a different pole of the fuse panel. On this(Phillips Unit DSR708) it is on another surge protector along with a Sony 32 TV and a Sony DVD recorder. I've tried disconneting from surge protector and going directly into the outlet, but it still did it.

I have to believe the new software is the problem, whether it is generating errors enough to cause a reboot, or something is cycling the power to reboot, I don't know. When it happens upstairs the Plasma TV gives no evidence of a power drop and it would if there was. I've had the Samsung for about a year and a half and the Phillips for 2 years. Niethre one has ever given me any trouble till now since the software update.

I'm not one to usually complain. I usually give things time to work themselves out, but this problem is really  me off. I can't let this go.

Copied from a post I made on another Forum:
<<<<I would believe that maybe one might cause problems, but two different units from two different manufacturers, I have a hard time swallowing. I'm kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place right now. I have the DirecTv service plan, but all they want me to do is turn in the unit I own and then lease their unit for an additional $5 month with a 2 year commitment. Even with the service plan this is what they are trying to shove down my throat. I can either go that route, which I seen to many complaints about DTV's new DVR units or just give up and switch to Comcast......which I really don't want to do.>>>>

THanks
Patrick


----------



## rbtravis

Pt121 said:


> I have two units rebooting daily. Both of these units are on separate circuits. The one in my bedroom(Samsung 4080R) does it just about every night around 10:30-11:30. I have a Monster Surge protector of which the Tivo, Panasonic 42" Plasma, and my PS3 are on. The circuit tha they are on is dedicated. I ran this to the breaker panel myself. The only thing that is ever on when it happens is the TV and the Tivo box. Unless of coarse it does it in standby mode. The downstairs unit is also on a deicated circuit and on a different pole of the fuse panel. On this(Phillips Unit DSR708) it is on another surge protector along with a Sony 32 TV and a Sony DVD recorder. I've tried disconneting from surge protector and going directly into the outlet, but it still did it.
> 
> I have to believe the new software is the problem, whether it is generating errors enough to cause a reboot, or something is cycling the power to reboot, I don't know. When it happens upstairs the Plasma TV gives no evidence of a power drop and it would if there was. I've had the Samsung for about a year and a half and the Phillips for 2 years. Niethre one has ever given me any trouble till now since the software update.
> 
> I'm not one to usually complain. I usually give things time to work themselves out, but this problem is really  me off. I can't let this go.
> 
> Copied from a post I made on another Forum:
> <<<<I would believe that maybe one might cause problems, but two different units from two different manufacturers, I have a hard time swallowing. I'm kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place right now. I have the DirecTv service plan, but all they want me to do is turn in the unit I own and then lease their unit for an additional $5 month with a 2 year commitment. Even with the service plan this is what they are trying to shove down my throat. I can either go that route, which I seen to many complaints about DTV's new DVR units or just give up and switch to Comcast......which I really don't want to do.>>>>
> 
> THanks
> Patrick


All Directv Tivos have the same motherboard and are made in Mexico in the same plant. All that is different is the front panel. open both up and take a look.


----------



## Roc570

bootsboy9 said:


> Last night and this afternoon my RCA Dvr35 rebooted while I was in the Showcases menu.When I clicked on the icon for the new fall season of ABC,opens to a black screen,then starts too break up then goes right into the gray Powering up screen......check it out ?.


That happened to me last night also,


----------



## dtremain

rbtravis said:


> All Directv Tivos have the same motherboard and are made in Mexico in the same plant. All that is different is the front panel. open both up and take a look.


Actually, the only exception would be the Samsung that the poster has.


----------



## wedgecon

While testing my R10 after the battery mishap I selected the "Bionic Woman" gold star sneak preview and got the Chevy truck ad instead. I went directly to the showcases menu and the Bionic Woman preview was not even in there.


----------



## wedgecon

dtremain said:


> Actually, the only exception would be the Samsung that the poster has.


Does the R10 have the same motherboard? I figure it has a few extra chips because of it's ability to require a prom upgrade before being hacked.


----------



## ForrestB

wedgecon said:


> Does the R10 have the same motherboard? I figure it has a few extra chips because of it's ability to require a prom upgrade before being hacked.


There are 4 series of DirecTivo's, and each member in each series has the same features.

Series 1 DirecTivo's (no USB port)

Series 2 DirecTivo's (USB port)

Series 2.5 DirecTivo (R10)

High Definition HR10-250


----------



## mboge

I'm not sure what the problem is with everybody's reboots... but I do know that I was able to reproduce the rebooting *everytime* I turned the vacuum cleaner on! There very well may be issues with DirecTV and their new software... but as you'll see, I only had the 6.3e on *one* of my TiVos and they _all three_ reboot at the same time.

And to add to the confusion... they all just rebooted this morning (~7:20 AM) and the vacuum wasn't turned on. As a matter of fact nothing was except for the TV and receiver connected to the same circuit.

Could it be possible that a spike/drop to power in the _*coax*_ would cause these reboots? I have a powered 5x8 multi-switch powered on the same circuit... could a drop/spike on the circuit get transfered to the switch and then the TiVos via coax? Finally... could a signal from DirecTVs satellites translate into a power surge/drop on the coax?

So... here's a theory (assuming some of the above): Somehow, DirecTV's satellite has been generating unusually high fluctuations in their signal, causing the TiVos (and other non-TiVo boxes, as I've read) to spontaneously reboot?

Is this even possible? Just shootin' in the dark here....


----------



## 86285

I tried powering-on the vacuum on the same circuit as the TiVo and no problem...although the theory about the coax signal strength is an interesting one.

Looking at the responses, it seems that the model code isn't a factor either, so I think I'm probably wrong there.

I haven't noticed any reboots in a few days (although I haven't been watching much TV either). It could be something strange coming down from the satellite like someone else said that tickling a bug in 6.3e.

One other problem I've noticed since the 6.3e update was that the color occasionally washes-out. It almost looked like a loose connection, but I checked and it looks fine. If I replay the section with the bad color it looks fine.

I think we're going to find in a month or so that DirecTV finds enough people with problems that they look into the cause and release a new version. I actually looked at our local digital cable service (and HD, incidentally) and was completely underwhelmed as I was before. So while DirecTV has their issues, it's still at least better (and less expensive) than our local cable service (I haven't looked at Dish Network yet...).


----------



## chrishicks

hey, when did this thread lose sticky status?


----------



## phox_mulder

chrishicks said:


> hey, when did this thread lose sticky status?


Sometime between noon, when I signed off at home,
and 5pm when I finally found time to sign on here at work.

phox


----------



## hglr

hglr said:


> I have a Hughes HDVR2 Series 2 DirectTivo which died two days ago. I don't know for certain what version of the software it was running (and I can't tell now), but I suspect it had recently updated. This was the stock 40GB hard drive, plus a 160GB hard drive that I bought from Weaknees a year or two ago. No software hacks at all.
> 
> I agree that it is too much of a coincidence that all of these hard drives have died within the last month.
> 
> Anyway, here is what I did to get back in business:
> ...


Well, I went out of business again. But this actually was a good thing...

This afternoon my HDVR2 using the new 500 GB Seagate froze again, and when I went to reset it, it wouldn't power up. I cursed, grunted, pouted, then unplugged it and pulled the new drive out and connected it to a PC running MFSTOOLS so I could browse the hard drive. I suspected that 6.3 had snuck on the drive somehow.

But it hadn't. The drive still had 6.2a on it. Then with the cover off, I powered the system up again. I didn't hear the hard drive spin up, and I started to hear a very quiet clicking from the power supply. But I still could see the gray Starting Up screen on the TV. Hmmm.

Next I used the power supply from an old PC to run the new hard drive (disconnected it from the HDVR2 power supply, but it was still running the motherboard), then plugged the system back in. This time everything booted up! Hmmmmm.

Then I powered back down, connected my two old drives (with 6.3e on them) to the PC power supply and powered everything up. Again, everything booted up! My son is going to be thrilled we have "Ben 10: Secret of the Omnitrix" back!

So, I apologize to the Tivo software engineers. Apparently 6.3e didn't kill my Tivo, a bad power supply is the culprit.

Here are some answers to a few other questions posed here about PTVnet, at least to the best of my knowledge -- I've only know about it for less than a week:
1) 6.2a does have folders. With PTVnet you are supposed to be able to create your own folders and move recordings into there. You are also supposed to be able to edit recording titles.
2) You can allow your system to upgrade, but you have to reinstall PTVnet afterwards. The PTVnet built for 6.2a can run with 6.3e, but you have to do a few things manually to get it to install from this version of the CD. Nobody knows if you'll be able to get it to work with a future version of Tivo software, but I'm sure it will be updated if not.
3) I haven't played with the encryption stuff, but my understanding is that you have to flip a software switch to tell it to quit encrypting the saved stream. I'd guess you could still play old, encrypted streams, but that is just a guess.
4) (Answering myself, really) BestBuy did put the 500GB PATA Seagates on sale for $99 this week. Heck of a deal.

I'm currently back to my old dual-drive 200GB setup, but I think I'll be attempting to migrate my data to the single 500GB drive. I do wonder if the extra power demands of two drives caused the power supply to die. I've read that the only problem is during startup when both drives spin-up, causing a power spike. But the recent Tivo software bugs requiring more frequent reboots combined with the two drives might have shortened the power supply's life. I need to get a replacement power supply, but I'm going to keep using the PC until I get down to a single drive.

- Steve


----------



## m17_jeff

My R10 Tivo has been rebooting every day at 5:30 pm MDT... This all started since 6.3...


----------



## mbklein

I have an HDVR2 that I hacked manually a few months back using the zipper as a road map. Everything's been working fine, except for one thing that came up tonight. (It's still on 6.2a, BTW.)

I have a season pass to Law & Order: Criminal Intent on USA. I padded it by a minute in each direction and set it to save 3 episodes. That's been fine.

I wanted to catch the upcoming marathon of last season's episodes, since I didn't start watching until this summer. I have a lot of free drive space, so I just changed the SP to all episodes, no padding (to eliminate the overlap and conflicts when the second tuner's in use by something else). When I saved the edited SP, I got the "Please wait..." and then my TiVo rebooted.

I went in again, and this time removed only the padding without changing the number of episodes the keep. Same result.

The third time, I went in through TiVoWebPlus and changed the SP, which saved fine. I then used the TiVo UI to swap the order of two SPs to force it to reindex the ToDo List. That's when it rebooted this time.

It doesn't seem to reboot any other time, so I can't imagine the drive is going bad.

FWIW, each of the reboots generated this in /var/log/tverr:


Code:


Sep 28 02:38:18 (none) myworld[193]: Tmk Fatal Error: Thread myworld <193> strayed!
Sep 28 02:38:18 (none) myworld[193]: pc 0xcda80c status 0x8001fc13 cause 0x000010 bva 0xdeadbeef hi 0xe90d765e lo 0xced36e9c 
Sep 28 02:38:18 (none) myworld[193]: R00 0x00000000  R01 0x1005b7d4  R02 0x00c76294  R03 0x00000000  
Sep 28 02:38:18 (none) myworld[193]: R04 0xdeadbeef  R05 0x5ed3cc64  R06 0x5ed793b4  R07 0x00000000  
Sep 28 02:38:18 (none) myworld[193]: R08 0x00000000  R09 0x00000000  R10 0x2ae421d4  R11 0x00000004  
Sep 28 02:38:18 (none) myworld[193]: R12 0x00000003  R13 0x2ae421bc  R14 0x421c650a  R15 0x1f478000  
Sep 28 02:38:18 (none) myworld[193]: R16 0xdeadbeef  R17 0xdeadbeef  R18 0x5ed3cc64  R19 0x5ed79628  
Sep 28 02:38:18 (none) myworld[193]: R20 0x00000004  R21 0x100e64c8  R22 0x00000001  R23 0x5ed3cc64  
Sep 28 02:38:18 (none) myworld[193]: R24 0x00000000  R25 0x00cda7e0  R26 0x000046fc  R27 0x00000000  
Sep 28 02:38:18 (none) myworld[193]: R28 0x1006dc40  R29 0x7fff5ae0  R30 0x00030021  R31 0x00c762d8  
Sep 28 02:38:18 (none) myworld[193]: bt -t /tvbin/tivoapp
Sep 28 02:38:18 (none) myworld[193]:   read 0x2aaa8000 /lib/ld.so.1 
Sep 28 02:38:18 (none) myworld[193]:   read 0x2ab04000 /lib/libutil.so.1 
Sep 28 02:38:18 (none) myworld[193]:   read 0x2ab48000 /lib/libdl.so.2 
Sep 28 02:38:18 (none) myworld[193]:   read 0x2ab8c000 /lib/libpthread.so.0 
Sep 28 02:38:18 (none) myworld[193]:   read 0x2abe8000 /lib/libm.so.6 
Sep 28 02:38:18 (none) myworld[193]:   read 0x2acb0000 /lib/libc.so.6 
Sep 28 02:38:18 (none) myworld[193]:   0x00cda80c 0x00c762d8 0x00c3b7a4 0x013c1070 0x013c0668 0x00c3a240 0x00c3b250 
Sep 28 02:38:18 (none) myworld[193]:   0x00c36a60 0x00c329dc 0x00c328ec 0x00c24218 0x00c35170 0x00c7292c 0x00c72430 
Sep 28 02:38:18 (none) myworld[193]:   0x00c73b60 0x00c73234 0x00c726e4 0x00c71aec 0x00c64824 0x00c5c104 0x00c62e8c 
Sep 28 02:38:18 (none) myworld[193]:   0x00c61b54 0x00c616d4 0x00830ac4 0x00830850 0x00b1f53c 0x00b2abbc 0x00b2b464 
Sep 28 02:38:18 (none) myworld[193]:   0x008331bc 0x00b1afc8 0x00b1ae34 0x00b22038 0x00b309c8 0x00b304cc 0x00b30298 
Sep 28 02:38:18 (none) myworld[193]:   0x0135902c 0x013593cc 0x013085fc 0x013081c8 0x01384bec 0x0138f134 0x00b21460 
Sep 28 02:38:18 (none) myworld[193]:   0x00b1f314 0x00a86b90 0x007a53d4 0x00612ef0 0x00403090 0x2acc13fc 
Sep 28 02:38:18 (none) myworld[193]: Tmk Fatal Error: Thread myworld <193>: unexpected signal 10
Sep 28 02:38:18 (none) myworld[193]: Tmk Fatal Error: Thread died due to signal 10
Sep 28 02:38:18 (none) myworld[193]: Invoking rule 834: rebooting system

Is there anything I should do? Should I try to find time to pull the drive and run diags? Or replace it as a precaution? WTF does "Thread strayed" mean?


----------



## phox_mulder

mbklein said:


> WTF does "Thread strayed" mean?


Isn't that what happens to every thread on TCF, or any online forum for that matter.



I believe this very post drives that fact home.

phox


----------



## mbklein

Well played.


----------



## todd2112

I also have been experiencing random restarts at different times. It started early Sept and hasnt gone away. 

Direct TV said they would send me a replacement(an direct tv dvr plus r-15), but I read numerous negative reviews on this product. I was hoping the problem would work itself out, but it hasn't. 

Has anyone switched to the R15, and if so, any good things to say about it?

Oh, btw, my tivo is the R10 model.


----------



## rvfrueh

phox_mulder said:


> Isn't that what happens to every thread on TCF, or any online forum for that matter.
> 
> 
> 
> I believe this very post drives that fact home.
> 
> phox


Beat me to it.


----------



## thommygeenh

todd2112 said:


> I also have been experiencing random restarts at different times. It started early Sept and hasnt gone away.
> 
> Direct TV said they would send me a replacement(an direct tv dvr plus r-15), but I read numerous negative reviews on this product. I was hoping the problem would work itself out, but it hasn't.
> 
> Has anyone switched to the R15, and if so, any good things to say about it?
> 
> Oh, btw, my tivo is the R10 model.


I went thru 6 R-15's the first year they were out in just 10 months. All defective and useless. Finally I got lucky and they replaced the last one with the R-10 TIVO unit. I STILL, 2 years later, read many reports of problems with the R-15, with the worst being, its simply unreliable. :down: :down: :down:

What I do with the current 6.3e problem...while not something I appreciate having to do...it does help...I manually reset the box once a week, and it seems to help PREVENT the random restarts, and it seems to respond a bit better overall to the remote.
I also call/e-mail them once a week, to "report the problem"...hopefully we'll hit that magic number of reported problems and they will at least acknowledge there is a problem...and create a fix for it soon!


----------



## ostrom

I first posted in the "software to fix 6.3e" thread, but there seems to be more activity here...

To those who still believe that the reason we're screwed is because of previously undiscovered hard drive problems I offer the following data.


Last night I disassembled my HR10-250 and removed the two drives (250GB WD and 300GB Maxtor).


I downloaded the most recent diagnostics from the Seagate (Maxtor) and WD sites.


Each drive was run through 3 passes of the manufacturers "Long" diagnostics (2+ hours per pass, per drive)


Both drives ran the 6 hours+ (each) of diagnostics with no errors. That's ZERO, 0, NONE, NADA, NOTHING, ERRORLESS, ERROR FREE, PERFECT. Do I need to be any clearer????

Since the download of 6.3e I cannot watch for more than 30 or 40 minutes without a freeze/black screen/reboot. If I channel surf it happens sooner.

I have been in the computer/software industry for almost 30 years, including several years involvement with the testing products groups of major vendors in this arena (Rational & Segue). This is exatly the kind of error you expect to see when software is released with inadequate test coverage, including comprehensive regression testing. Where is the plan/execution to move us back to a stable software baselevel? This is inexcuseable and as soon as I can free up the time I intend to give DTV a piece of my mind. Like many others I have thousands of dollars spent on their products and services and I (and you) deserve to be treated better.


----------



## mboge

I definitely think that these rebooting issues are somehow being caused by DirecTV, but I _*don't*_ think that it's been proven here that the new software upgrade is the culprit.

I've been getting the freezes/reboots too, but I have three TiVos but only one of them has the new software. I have one _stock_ TiVo with the 6.3e and two upgraded/hacked TiVos with the 6.2 software. And _all three_ of them have been rebooting/freezing. To me, this indicates that 6.3e is *not* the culprit.

I've also been able to reproduce reboots on all three TiVos at the same time. I first noticed that whenever my wife turned the vacuum cleaner on they would all reboot. I also noticed that whenever I turned on the TV and Receiver, they would often reboot. I plugged in my vacuum to a plug in another circuit as my AV equipment and the TiVo's *don't* reboot when I turn on the vacuum (but they still would when I turned on the TV/Receiver).

The TiVos are all on UPS backup and still reboot.

Then I began to wonder about the reboots possibly being caused by spikes/drops in the signal coming from the *coax cables*? My powered 5x8 multi-switch is plugged into the same circuit as the rest of the AV equipment, so I suspected that when the power to the circuit changes (spikes/drops caused by my vacuum and AV/Receiver) it translates a spike/drop in the signal it's sending to the TiVos.

So, I ran a extension cord from another circuit to the multi-switch and plugged it into that... and now: _*no more reboots*_! At least not the ones caused by my vacuum or AV equipment.

What's the point of all of this? Well, two things... first, most of _*my*_ reboots seemed to be directly related to things I was doing -- not DirecTV. Also, because I am running different versions of the software, I couldn't honestly claim it was 6.3.

Secondly -- and more importantly as it relates to all you guys -- is that tjis may very well be a DirecTV-caused issue... not with the software upgrade, but rather with the signals they are sending from the satellite (assuming that changes in the signal can translate into changes in voltage in the coax line... but I don't know enough about the physics to say for sure).

I work for a software company, and I've seen plenty of bugs show themselves after a new release... but they had nothing to do with the release, except for the timing. And the instinct is always to blame the new release... even when that isn't the cause at all.

Maybe we should start asking DirecTV if they have been monkeying around with their signals in the last several weeks?


----------



## rvfrueh

Your difficulties are very different than a lot of others. Mine started immediately after the first reboot after the phone call of doom, which I had to trigger manually, not regularly making calls due to lack of working phone jacks near receivers. Power is not my problem, and mine never bounce at the same time.


----------



## mboge

rvfrueh said:


> Your difficulties are very different than a lot of others. Mine started immediately after the first reboot after the phone call of doom, which I had to trigger manually, not regularly making calls due to lack of working phone jacks near receivers. Power is not my problem, and mine never bounce at the same time.


That wasn't my point. 

Actually, I was making two points:

1. Just because the problems started at the same time of the 6.3 release, doesn't necessarily mean it was the 6.3 software that causing them. I'll admit that it would be a big coincidence, but I've personally witnessed these coincidences and I'm just saying it's a possibility. Troubleshooting begins with eliminating possibilities, not jumping to conclusions.

2. I wasn't suggesting that *power* was everybody's problem... I was speculating (asking smarter folks, really) if it's possible that signal spikes/drops from the _dish_ could travel to the TiVo and cause a reboot?

I seem to remember that the DTV tuners send voltage changes to the LNBs to tell it which transponder to look at... so, I was just wondering if the reverse was possible... i.e. the satellite sends a signal to the LNB, which could travel back to the receiver as a voltage spike/drop... and cause a reboot?

This could also explain why not just TiVos running 6.3e are rebooting... including, from what I hear, non-TiVo tuners, and why one TiVo would reboot and not the other (tuned to different channels/transponders). I only mentioned my situation because I was getting all three TiVos to reboot at the same time, even though they had different software versions and were on a UPS. The only thing they had in common was the powered multi-switch which _wasn't_ hooked up to the UPS.

Feel free to squash this theory, but please don't misstate my point.


----------



## Duffycoug

mboge said:


> That wasn't my point.
> 
> Actually, I was making two points:
> 
> 1. Just because the problems started at the same time of the 6.3 release, doesn't necessarily mean it was the 6.3 software that causing them. I'll admit that it would be a big coincidence, but I've personally witnessed these coincidences and I'm just saying it's a possibility. Troubleshooting begins with eliminating possibilities, not jumping to conclusions.
> 
> 2. I wasn't suggesting that *power* was everybody's problem... I was speculating (asking smarter folks, really) if it's possible that signal spikes/drops from the _dish_ could travel to the TiVo and cause a reboot?
> 
> I seem to remember that the DTV tuners send voltage changes to the LNBs to tell it which transponder to look at... so, I was just wondering if the reverse was possible... i.e. the satellite sends a signal to the LNB, which could travel back to the receiver as a voltage spike/drop... and cause a reboot?
> 
> This could also explain why not just TiVos running 6.3e are rebooting... including, from what I hear, non-TiVo tuners, and why one TiVo would reboot and not the other (tuned to different channels/transponders). I only mentioned my situation because I was getting all three TiVos to reboot at the same time, even though they had different software versions and were on a UPS. The only thing they had in common was the powered multi-switch which _wasn't_ hooked up to the UPS.
> 
> Feel free to squash this theory, but please don't misstate my point.


My tivos do NOT reboot at the same time and are all connected to the same multiswitch...was watching the Giants game last night on two TVs one room away and one rebooted at 11:06 p.m., while the other one continued without a problem. Also, if it was a voltage problem why would it only be confined to Tivo machines? I have an R15 that they gave me as a replacement for one of my Tivos when the problem first started, and it has NEVER rebooted at any time....all my tivo machines continue to reboot randomly and constantly...seems like a software problem to me IMHO.


----------



## robpickles

Well...

This weekend I replaced the hard drive in my HDVR2 with a new one from Weaknees with 6.2a software on it.

I set it up and detached the phone line so it could not update and..THERE ARE NO PROBLEMS with it at all!!

It's fast. It's nice. It works 100% the way it should.

Now.. I am going to do the same with my R10 and see the miracle happen once again.

Rob


----------



## mbklein

OK, let's add my weird story to the mix...

I have an HDVR2 that I upgraded to 250GB and hacked (killhdinitrd, networking, TivoWeb, etc.). It's been working fine for a year.

A few days ago, I changed my season pass for Law & Order: Criminal Intent so that it would pick up more episodes. Basically, I removed the padding that was causing 1-minute episode overlaps on back-to-backs and causing conflicts when the second tuner was being used by something else.

Immediately, the TiVo started rebooting every 15-20 minutes. I read the threads here -- 6.3 wasn't the problem, because it's still on 6.2a. I unplugged my IR extender, which seemed to help, but only for a short time. I monitored the output from uptime and noticed that it would reboot when the 15-minute load average got above 2.5-3.0.

I dd'ed my hard drive to another 250GB I had sitting around. It rebooted again 15 minutes after I powered it back up, and another 18 minutes after that. The load average was spiking up to 2.5 almost immediately after booting; top reported that the dbgc-mcp process (I think it's the garbage collector) was doing most of the heavy lifting, followed by myworld.

I was worried that (a) I was going to have to do a clear & delete everything and lose lots of unwatched shows, and (b) it wouldn't help anyway.

In a last ditch move to avoid the C&DE, I cancelled my Season Pass to L&O:CI. I could hear the difference immediately in that the hard drive stopped thrashing. I telnetted in and found that the 1-minute load average had fallen to 0.71. That was 7.5 hours ago; TiVo's still running strong with a current load average of (0.62, 0.88, 1.06).

I might try reinstating the L&O:CI season pass later just to see what happens, but not until after _House_.


----------



## rbtravis

I like you comment and I like your choice of shows.


----------



## chuckg

robpickles said:


> Well...
> 
> This weekend I replaced the hard drive in my HDVR2 with a new one from Weaknees with 6.2a software on it.
> 
> I set it up and detached the phone line so it could not update and..THERE ARE NO PROBLEMS with it at all!!
> 
> It's fast. It's nice. It works 100% the way it should.
> 
> Now.. I am going to do the same with my R10 and see the miracle happen once again.
> 
> Rob


Beat you by 2 weeks. Not even the slightest hint of a problem since. My WK DB35.3s with 6.2a worked fine until 6.3e was activated.


----------



## featherz

My R10 just started randomly rebooting. Was JUST about to call Directv when I thought to check here first. Good to know it's not just me. 

No hacks on this one except for an upgraded drive.


----------



## rvfrueh

to mboge for missing his point, and now I have to agree with him, anyway. Over the last 2 days when it was rainy, signal strength sucked on Sat C. Lots of reboots. Now that it's clear, 1 reboot. So, it could definitely be related to signal as well. However, we had lots of signal problems in the past, before 6.3e, so I maintain it's a combination, if anything, rather than signal alone.

Rich


----------



## wedgecon

Sign my unit rebooted agian at 11:50 PM while watching a recorded show. This is the first time that it has done this outside of the 5:00 PM to 7:00 PM windows that I know about.


----------



## milo99

m17_jeff said:


> My R10 Tivo has been rebooting every day at 5:30 pm MDT... This all started since 6.3...


hm. my R10 was doing it almost daily at around 7:30 EST... interesting.

but a bit of good news, i haven't noticed it rebooting this week.


----------



## mkwolf1

New to post here. I, too, have had issues with my philips708 and hughesdr40. These directivos have frozen, rebooted ever since the 6.3e update. I called directv today and they're sending a technician this weekend. The technical support person and her supervisor haven't heard of any issues. I find that hard to believe when reading all of the posts. She said she would make note of it.
On my end it seems to happen in the am, here lately every other day. They have only rebooted on the own once, usually I have to manually unplug since the remote and controls on the box are unresponsive.


----------



## Duffycoug

milo99 said:


> hm. my R10 was doing it almost daily at around 7:30 EST... interesting.
> 
> but a bit of good news, i haven't noticed it rebooting this week.


My three reboot randomly and at different times since 6.3e.....I doubt it's something time related, otherwise they would all do it together, right? Mine haven't been rebooting as often either.....strange...they were going at 4-5 times per hour at one point, now it's more like once or twice a week.


----------



## Rafier

Is anyone from Washington State having the same reboot freezing problems?

Well, I decided to write DTV per their agreement, about problems with my Tivo unit freezing and re-booting. I copied all interested parties including TiVo. Guess what I recieved a call from them. I did request a written reply also, I was told "a written response would need to go through legal". I have great confidence that will be ocurring immediately. Probably 60 days out. That is the time limit before you can go to arbitration. 

I guess if they don't receive it in writing, "it is as good as the air it is written on". Read your agreement, to complain or request resolution, it has to be in writing.

Let me know what you hear.


----------



## JSJarvis

I started having reboots with both of the DirecTivo units that I have after 6.3 was installed. Over the past few days I have been running an experiment to see if it helped. Someone earlier posted that after doing a forced call to the DVR service that their unit started working better. It got me to wondering if forcing a daily call would do anything. So last week I started initiating calls on a daily basis on both Tivos. Since I started doing this (almost an entire week) I have not had a single reboot on either unit. It may be purely coincidental that I haven't had a reboot, but so far it is a "fix" that seems to be working. For now I am going to continue the experiment to see if it continues to work.

*Update: * Well, I must have jinxed myself by posting because just a few minutes ago my primary Tivo decided to reboot by itself. Guess I can stop wasting my time doing the daily calls.


----------



## m17_jeff

JSJaris, you needed a control group... it would be better to force a daily call on one DTivo unit while leaving the other Dtivo alone. See if the unit left alone continues to reboot while the forced call one does not...

Ive had my R10 go a week plus several days without a reboot, then start rebooting every day, then go several days with no reboot...

Right before the reboot it displays "Searching for Signal from Satellite..." then the reboot...
I've seen this on recorded shows as well as live TV...


----------



## pbod153

New to forum, first post. came across this when trying to find the source of this issue. Been having all the same issues as everyone else has mentioned. Using a series 2 hughesdr40 that has been upgrade. at first I thought the original HD was going so I swapped the two units out with a single HD created with instantcake. worked well for a day then same issue started again. I wrote Direct tv an email and written letter to complain. Hopefully if enough of us complain they will do something. Being in customer service I know that many customer reps are really put off by the "angry typing guy" so I worded it a way that made it seem like I was upset to be considering Dish network but just "could not watch my favorite shows" any more. I guess I'll see if that works. 

Nice to know that its not just me, sucks that there is no fix.
P


----------



## 15968

Ok, I finally pulled the trigger, as this has gotten completely out of hand for me (had 3 reboots in 30 mins during Heroes tonight  Luckily I had another one of my DTivos set to record and it didn't reboot during that show (but rebooted about 5 mins later during Journeyman)). I've went for a couple of days with no noticable reboots, and then boom, I get multiple reboots in 30 min periods. My wife wants us to dump DTV and switch to DISH or local cable. We still have 5 months on our 2 year commitment so I doubt thats doable (and I'm not sure I want to do that anyway).

Anyway, I called to complain again. Rather than offering to send me a receiver (like they did last time) they now said they have to send out a tech to diagnose the problem. I talked with the Tech for a bit about this (She seemed knowledgable, but once again claimed that there are no reports about this problem, but did see it was noted in my account about it), but finally gave in to let the tech come out. He will have a new R15 with him in case he can't find the problem and determines it needs to be swapped out (I'm sure thats all he will actually do). I made it clear that while all 3 are having the issue, I will only allow 1 to be replaced at this time as I'm not sure the R15 is something we can live with. She noted it in my account.

So an installer will be here on Thursday morning. Guess I need to read up on the issues with the R15 to see what to expect. I'm also hoping they don't take my Series 2 DTivo (or will accept a Series 1 I have sitting in the back room as I'd prefer not to lose the Series 2. Any thoughts on this?)

I'll report back Thursday sometime.


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## theta.bowden

MikeF,

Here are some thoughts on your scheduled tech visit:

1. The expected outcome (based on all of the problem reports here), is that he will find nothing wrong with your units and that he will be unable to reproduce the problem. Therefore, what can the tech do? He can put in a new unit if you insist, but it's quite possible/likely that the new unit will not fix the problem.

2. Getting a crystal clear understanding of the escalation ladder will be very helpful.
Since you will be expecting the problem to recur, you need to be able to escalate the problem to the next level, which hopefully will be engineers who understand the systemic nature of this problem. 

3. As a side note, it is difficult to understand how DTV can assert that they are not getting any reports of problems with 6.3. Informal discussions with the tech guy might yield some insights as to how their problem-tracking system works. If you can gain any knowledge along these lines, then sharing with this group may help us all to get DTV's attention.

just some thoughts...
theta


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## mbklein

Or just print out this thread and let the tech read skim it.


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## Mark W

Mike,

I don't blame you for resisting the tech visit since it definitely seems to be a software issue. Maybe if they have to send enough techs out, they will start to see a pattern. And for you, at least you won't miss shows after they install the R15. I'm hoping I don't have to go that route. Everyone who calls, please make sure to try to get the CSR to escalate the issue so that these issues are seen.


----------



## J Dudash

Hi Mike,

Hope your tech visit can resolve some things for you. We loved are old TIVO, but not being technologically savvy just thought our box was dying and agreed to replace it out with Directv's receiver since they no longer had TIVO's. Just a word of warning -they aren't functioning either. They will also freeze, the hard drive's can grind, they don't tape off the season pass most of the time. I say this with confidence since we've had 2 in a few week span. Directv claims this is unusual. I told them I wanted to resolve this in writing, but they said I had to call.

It's too bad, we'd been so happy with the service til the last couple months. We hate to ditch Directv b/c of the NFL Season Ticket. Yet, we've missed 3 games due to box errors anyway. Not sure where to go from here.


----------



## 15968

Ok, guys... First off, remember that I'm running on Hacked (Zippered) DirecTiVos, so they have never seen any form of 6.3 on them. They are running 6.2. So what I'm about to describe will most likely NOT fix a 6.3e bug issue, but may decrease how often the DTivo reboots if you have a similar setup.

Basically, it appears to be a very simple problem in my situation. Namely that the IR sensor on the DTivos are getting overloaded with bogus IR information. I don't know if its specific events that trigger it, but it is definelty (for me) related to the IR sensors on all 3 of my boxes.

In my setup, I have 3 DirecTiVo boxes all in my entertainment center in my basement next to our main TV. I use RF Modulators to insert the signal from each into my coax that runs through the house with the OTA signal so that any TV in the house can tune to OTA signal or one of the 3 DTivos. Then I use some old Leapfrog wireless IR senders (like the RCA pyramids you can buy at Radio Shack) in strategic points in the house to send the IR signal from the remote down to the basement where the IR receiver then blasts it out.

It struck me day before yesterday, after posting in another thread about using RF Modulators, that when I first setup my DTivos I had an issue with random reboots (This was 2 or 3 years ago) that I forgot about. Back then there was a topic on IR signals (flourescent lights and such) overloading the IR input on the DTivo. So I took a look at my IR receiver and sure enough the little LED in it to indicate a signal is being received was flickering constantly (not very brightly so wasn't noticeable without really looking closely or turning off the lights in the room) . I went around and unhooked all of the IR senders and the LED stopped flickering on the receiver. I then plugged the senders in one at a time and found that one of them is apparently going bad as it appears to be constantly sending a signal (based on the behavior of the receiver) no matter where its at in the house. So for now I unplugged it. The receiver LED only seems to blink now when we use the remotes (as it should). And all 3 of my DirecTivos have NOT rebooted in 36 hours (one of my DTivos was rebooting every 2 hours or less before this).

So if you use IR Senders in your house, you may want to try checking this, and unplugging the senders to see if the reboots stop (or slow down). I'm crossing my fingers that this fixes the problem for me (as most with Zippered DTiVos running 6.2 aren't having reboots like I was).

DirecTV is still sending a tech out this morning. If he'll be willing to take my old Series 1 DTivo for an R15 I'll probably do the trade just to try it out. But if he has to have one of my active Series 2 receivers, I'll just turn him away for now.

I'll post an update on my Tech experience later today or tomorrow (after he shows up. I haven't had a call or anything from them yet). And I'll update next week on my uptime after doing this IR fix...


----------



## 15968

Ok, Installer came out. Very nice guy. I explained the situation and explained that it appears to be fixed. He told me that since I own the DTivos he would not take a broken one, just replace it with an R15. He also said he had 2 DTivos himself and won't replace them for R15's as the DTivos work better (he did say the R15's have really improved in the last few months but he likes the Tivos better himself). Anyway, we agreed to not do anything at this time since my reboots now appear to be gone. I then took some time to show him how the Zippered DTivos work, and how one of mine now has a 500GB hard drive. He's supposed to call me in a few days to have me upgrade his now 

BTW: Still no reboots. Going on 40 hours now for all 3.


----------



## markbox

I know there is a major push these days to replace
standard bulbs with the new compact fluorescent bulbs.
I'm wondering if the CF bulbs also put out IR?
Could people that have recently replaced all their bulbs
be experiencing remote control issues and/or reboots 
due to CF bulbs?

I was having the freezing/reboots problem and 
don't have any CF bulbs. Switched back to 6.2a software
to resolve my problems. I also had to disconnect the S-VHS
hookup to avoid SAT-B pixilation. Strangely enough, the
S-VHS/pixilation issue was present even after I switched
back to 6.2a which leads me to believe DirecTV has
introduced some change(s) in the sattelite network data
that is causing some of the reported pixilation issues
with our DirecTiVos.


----------



## wedgecon

From the GE web site:

Can compact fluorescent bulbs create interference with electronic equipment, such as radios?
Many electronic devices, such as radios, televisions, wireless telephones, and remote controls, use infrared light to transmit signals. Infrequently, these types of electronic devices accidentally interpret the infrared light coming from a compact fluorescent bulb as a signal, causing the electronic device to temporarily malfunction or stop working. (For example, your television might suddenly change channels.) Fortunately, this only happens when light is produced at the same wavelength as the electronic device signals, which is rare.

To reduce the chance of interference, avoid placing compact fluorescent bulbs near these kinds of electronic devices. If interference occurs, move the bulb away from the electronic device, or plug either the light fixture or the electronic device into a different outlet.


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## pbod153

Ok. installed a downgraded hard drive using instantcake. It's up and running but just waiting for the locals to kick back in. will let you know how it works out.
P

update....
SUCCESS!!!
no reboots or freeze ups


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## 15968

Final (?) update from me in this thread... Again, I'm on a Zippered DTivo (6.2 not 6.3e)... The only unexpected reboots I've had in ~9 days have happened a few hours after my wife plugged in the "bad" IR sender unit and forgot to unplug it (has happened on 2 occasions. As soon as I see there is a reboot, I go look and see that unit is plugged in again). Going to now look into a different method to send IR signals to the DTivos downstairs.


----------



## KingAdRock

had nothing they could offer.

they suggested that my hdd was failing and that i contact weaknees.

alternatively, they offered a directv dvr for free.

i'm passing for now, planning on replacing the hdd with an instantcake 6.2a version soon.

any input on how that's working?

kar


--

philips dsr704 6.3e with hdd upgrade


----------



## rbtravis

KingAdRock said:


> had nothing they could offer.
> 
> they suggested that my hdd was failing and that i contact weaknees.
> 
> alternatively, they offered a directv dvr for free.
> 
> i'm passing for now, planning on replacing the hdd with an instantcake 6.2a version soon.
> 
> any input on how that's working?
> 
> kar


Instantcake works great. It brings you back to 6.2a. Instructions on their website(www.DVRupgrade.com) how to implement Multi-Room Viewing. Works best with a new hard drive. May I suggest:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136185
The retail package is for safer shipping.


----------



## bryan1230

I have two units, Phillips DSR708 and the R10, both have been experiencing the reboots. I've been following this thread, and finally called customer service today. I was advised to perform a system restart, and that would clear the problem. It would also, however, delete all recorded programs, and from what I've read, the season passes and wishlists.

Question: has any one tried this with success? I don't want to go through this effort if it really isn't a solution. I get the impression from an earlier post is this is not completely successful.

Thanks!

Bryan


----------



## rock_doctor

bryan1230 said:


> Question: has any one tried this with success? I don't want to go through this effort if it really isn't a solution. I get the impression from an earlier post is this is not completely successful.


I wouldn't bother. We all just have to wait them out and keep complaining.

mark


----------



## 86285

bryan1230 said:


> I was advised to perform a system restart, and that would clear the problem. It would also, however, delete all recorded programs, and from what I've read, the season passes and wishlists.
> 
> Question: has any one tried this with success? I don't want to go through this effort if it really isn't a solution. I get the impression from an earlier post is this is not completely successful.


I agree with rock_doctor - I doubt that this will help.

I did look at the log files on the /var filesystem last night while trying to see if I could flip back to the old software (was unsuccessful, unfortunately). The log files indicated an error condition in one of the threads (I cannot recall the name) and the action for that error was to reboot (which is exactly what it did).

It has rebooted twice in the past two nights when I was watching "time shifted" live TV and my parents are out to visit. This situation is very irritating and embarrassing and I'm pretty close to just telling D* to just cancel my service. I will be calling tomorrow (Monday) morning about this (yet again). I got the "electrical outlet" explanation the first time. Argh.


----------



## Brainiac427

I was watching live TV tonight when the box locked up tight and became unresponsive. I had to unplug and reboot it. In the past week, I've had a few spontaneous reboots while watching pre-recorded shows. This has never happened to me before. In other forums, people are posting that it's the new 6.3e software, not hard drive failure. (I know what hard drive failure is because I've had a DirecTiVo hard drive failure in the past--pre-recorded programs stutter and freeze, but never did I have live TV affected, nor has the box ever spontaneously rebooted before.) I've also been told that calling DirecTV is useless. DirecTV blames TiVo, TiVo blames DirecTV, and the customers are caught in the middle. Part of me wants to E-mail them to let them know there's a problem, but I don't know.

What a shame. This is worse than last year's problem of the Season Passes and WishLists going on the fritz. A previously reliable box has become completely unreliable and essentially useless.

The specs are:

Philips Series2 DSR708
Software version 6.3e-01-2-101.

Is there a way to go back to the old 6.2a software version? What is this "InstantCake" I'm reading about?


----------



## rbtravis

Instantcake from www.DVRupgrade.com would revert you back to 6.2a but it would erase all recorded programs, season passes, and viewing preferences. It would be as if you were taking a brand new TiVo out of the factory box. Hope that helps.


----------



## CaptGino

Hello all, new to this group as a result of today's events. DTV series 2 R10 that started rebooting, now just freezes and when I reset, stays on the welcome screen until I pull the plug. After a few minutes, I can reboot and it will work for 30 min or so until it freezes again. 

As per the advice on this thread, I checked the last time it called in and guess what... 4:30 PM today, right when all the freezing / rebooting started! I forced a call around 7 but that has not helped. 

So am I correct that my only option is to buy a new hard drive and download instantCake? ( I don't want DirecTV's crummy unit)


----------



## Brainiac427

I set last night's Red Sox World Series clincher for a 6-hour recording session (8 p.m. to 2 a.m.) in order to capture all the postgame celebration. I woke up around 6:30 a.m. and noticed that the record light was still on. I'm thinking it can't still be recording, can it? I go to turn it on, and it's completely unresponsive. I have to unplug and reboot it. When it comes back, it turned out that the recording stopped at 12:10 a.m., just as the on-field postgame interviews were starting. (Because of all the problems I've been having, I scheduled a duplicate recording on the HR20. Who would have thought a year ago that the HR20 would bail out a DirecTiVo?) Not remembering the specifics, I did the Pause-5-2 thing at the appropriate time during the reboot, thinking I would revert back to the old 6.2a software. As it turns out, all that did was reinstall the 6.3e software on the alternate root partition, for all the good that's going to do.

In retrospect, the first ever spontaneous reboot occurred about a week before I thought it did. I was watching the NFL Sunday Ticket highlights on the HR20 when I came across a bad recording (Lions/Redskins). About halfway through, the picture started stuttering, breaking up, and finally disappearing. I thought I would see how it looked on the TiVo. Within 5 seconds of starting the recording, the TiVo spontaneously rebooted. I wrote it off as being due to a bad recording and didn't think further of it. In retrospect, could this bad recording have corrupted the software to the point where the box is now useless?

So now I've hit the trifecta: spontaneous reboots, live TV that freezes, and prematurely discontinued recordings with unresponsiveness. I don't know if reinstalling the software on the alternate partition will help or if what was reinstalled is the default version prior to the potential bad recording corruption, or if that whole bad recording thing was just a coincidence. If it's truly bad software, I've lost the use of one TV until, and if, a fix is made, or I do the Instantcake.


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## thommygeenh

CaptGino said:


> Hello all, new to this group as a result of today's events. DTV series 2 R10 that started rebooting, now just freezes and when I reset, stays on the welcome screen until I pull the plug. After a few minutes, I can reboot and it will work for 30 min or so until it freezes again.
> 
> As per the advice on this thread, I checked the last time it called in and guess what... 4:30 PM today, right when all the freezing / rebooting started! I forced a call around 7 but that has not helped.
> 
> So am I correct that my only option is to buy a new hard drive and download instantCake? ( I don't want DirecTV's crummy unit)


Unfortunately, it seems to be your only option. I just replaced our hard drive...now running 6.1 on the R-10 and the machine is now working like it did before 6.3e...flawlessly. Knowing D* track record on fixing things, I don't expect a fix for the 6.3e disaster for at least a year.


----------



## thommygeenh

bryan1230 said:


> Question: has any one tried this with success? I don't want to go through this effort if it really isn't a solution. I get the impression from an earlier post is this is not completely successful.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Bryan


Bryan...I have done the "clear and delete everything" as instructed to do by the DTV CSR's...it did nothing to fix the problems with 6.3e...it was a total waste of time, not to mention loosing all our recordings, and having to spend hours setting up the wishlists, season passes, and other settings. A new hard drive with software other than 6.3e seems to be the only option.


----------



## thommygeenh

wedgecon said:


> From the GE web site:
> 
> Can compact fluorescent bulbs create interference with electronic equipment, such as radios?
> Many electronic devices, such as radios, televisions, wireless telephones, and remote controls, use infrared light to transmit signals. Infrequently, these types of electronic devices accidentally interpret the infrared light coming from a compact fluorescent bulb as a signal, causing the electronic device to temporarily malfunction or stop working. (For example, your television might suddenly change channels.) Fortunately, this only happens when light is produced at the same wavelength as the electronic device signals, which is rare.
> 
> To reduce the chance of interference, avoid placing compact fluorescent bulbs near these kinds of electronic devices. If interference occurs, move the bulb away from the electronic device, or plug either the light fixture or the electronic device into a different outlet.


I have compact fluorescent bulbs only in my house...have used them for years, and they never caused a problem with electronics...I have one lamp just 3 feet from our tivo/tv and never any problems here.


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## rock_doctor

thommygeenh said:


> Knowing D* track record on fixing things, I don't expect a fix for the 6.3e disaster for at least a year.


Sounds about right...


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## chuckg

thommygeenh said:


> I have compact fluorescent bulbs only in my house...have used them for years, and they never caused a problem with electronics...I have one lamp just 3 feet from our tivo/tv and never any problems here.


I didn't believe it either. Seen a GE CFL problems document on the web with details.

Depends on the frequency of the switching supply in the CFL and the IR remote frequency.

If the remote frequency is exactly twice that of the switching supply and a CFL has a "window" through which IR can escape in the appropriate direction then it can cause problems. Been documented on a Tivo/DirecTv web site(s) where I remember not.


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## CaptGino

I finally called DTV today and explained the problem in detail. The rep said she had heard of the problem, sympathized with my disdain for the DTV DVR, and gave me one piece of info that may prove helpful. 

She said that often when updates come, they conflict with each other and cause problems. The best solution is to clear and delete everything. Even though I know many of you have not had luck with this I figured what the hell, I have nothing to lose at this point. I did the clear and re set up the unit, it has been working fine so far, I'll keep you posted. Not sure if this is BS (i'm not a computer guy, but if you need help with motorcycles, let me know....)

On a side note, when my brother updated to HD, He shelved his R10. I hooked it up today and got it set up, but I wasn't aware it would not work without a new access card, not my old one or my brother's old one. 

They did agree to FedEx me a new access card for the 2nd R10, so if that takes place I will set it up but simply not plug in the phone line and not have to deal with any further updating.....hopefully that will work

Thanks for the advice,

Gino


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## wedgecon

Clear and Delete has no effect on this problem, the CSR was feeding you a lie because they do not know anymore than you do.


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## NytOwl666

I have reboots across 7 units (yeah 7). 3 of these are SD units. All reboot spontaneously once or twice a day. 3 friends I sold on Directv called me asking me what was going on - it blew up for all of them during the game!!

 Called D*TV last night and the tech support person said that they've been having a "reboot problem since October 1st" and that they are working with TiVo on a fix. Mine all seem to have gotten worse starting Friday...

 My speculation is that the launch of the new HD and the HD overlays has caused a problem in the guide size/buffering causing TiVos to overflow something or get so busy with Season Pass and suggestion calcs they timeout and reboot. Got a bad feeling the fix - if there is one - may be a workaround or a hardware thing...

:down: Of course they offered me 1 DIRECTV DVR. NO THANKS!!!! Told them I prefer to stay married... Wife tried the new boxes and the hole in the wall still needs patching. Makes a Wii incident look trival. At least people like the Wii.  

Then they wanted to do a service call! I asked to do what? It's happening across multiple boxes, across multiple power services, across multiple dishes and multi-switches, and across different versions of TiVo and TiVo hardware (HD & SD, V6.a through V6d)! The home service guys can hardly run wires let alone troubleshoot TiVos!  

Sounds like the rumblings are that DIRECTV is playing hardball with TiVo and there may not be a future for us previously quite happy and loyal D*TV early adopters. I can't even begin to count the number of folks I've personally converted and help get installed - and they're all watching me now to see whether I jump. Feelin' froggy...

Awful suspicious that they launch the new channels and we start having problems on TiVos...

 If I were a conspiracy nut, I'd say the boardroom at D*TV is happy about our pain thinking they'll either flip us to their SH*TTY DVRs or get rid of us. 
 Really considering that last option as soon as TiVo 3 and cable matures a bit more.

Saddness...


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## smallwonder

Pt121 said:


> As far as the buffer issue. I've seen some strange behavior out of the Samsung unit since the update. Usually, when I turned it back on, the 30 minutes that was already there, from when I last had it on, I could rewind back over it. Since the update though, if you attempt to rewind over the buffer that was there it kicks you back to the beginning of that buffer. You can not back track over it, it will just make you start from the front. I noticed this when I first turned on the system one day and saw something interesting within the first few minutes of what was on and rewound it a bit, and as soon as it hit the previous buffer, it just shot back to the beginning.


I have this problem on an SD-DRV40 w/ 6.3e. In order to avoid the reboots, I clear the buffer on each tuner as soon as I bring it out of standby by hitting 'Channel Up', swapping tuners and hitting 'Channel Up' again. If I do this, the box doesn't reboot. If I don't, the unit will reboot within the hour.


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## kalex

smallwonder said:


> I have this problem on an SD-DRV40 w/ 6.3e. In order to avoid the reboots, I clear the buffer on each tuner as soon as I bring it out of standby by hitting 'Channel Up', swapping tuners and hitting 'Channel Up' again. If I do this, the box doesn't reboot. If I don't, the unit will reboot within the hour.


I have been doing this for over 2 weeks and have only had one reboot, where I was getting one a day before that. There's a very noticeable delay when changing the channel the first time, many times the normal delay. After that everything seems to be OK.

I did have one strange event tonight where the video froze but the sound kept on going. I had about a 20 minute buffer and couldn't move forward, but I could move back. But it would freeze again when it hit the same spot. I ended up changing the channel and changing back, which lost my buffer, but everything has been OK since then. It's interesting that the lockup was at the same time that I used to get a reboot, between 6 and 6:15 PM in most cases


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## Ken Crane

smallwonder said:


> I have this problem on an SD-DRV40 w/ 6.3e. In order to avoid the reboots, I clear the buffer on each tuner as soon as I bring it out of standby by hitting 'Channel Up', swapping tuners and hitting 'Channel Up' again. If I do this, the box doesn't reboot. If I don't, the unit will reboot within the hour.


Dear smallwonder:

Many thanks for posting your 'solution'

You are definately onto something - since following your 'solution' on November 7th I have had no reboots.

Before doing this my Samsung was rebooting within appox an hour.

Thanks again.

Ken


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## robpickles

smallwonder said:


> I have this problem on an SD-DRV40 w/ 6.3e. In order to avoid the reboots, I clear the buffer on each tuner as soon as I bring it out of standby by hitting 'Channel Up', swapping tuners and hitting 'Channel Up' again. If I do this, the box doesn't reboot. If I don't, the unit will reboot within the hour.


Yes...

This seems to work for me too - as long as i catch it in time. If i get home too late it might have already rebooted, but for the most part this works.

And for anyone who said that it was a local channel problem - this is 100% NOT true. I had both tuners set to non-local channels (Sci-Fi and Spike) and the same problem occurred.

Another idea to stop this from happening is to put your channels on XM stations - they don't record in the buffers. But who wants to go thru the trouble of putting thei rchannels on music stations every night when shutting off the tv?

Rob


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## RichardinArizona

I'm glad I stumbled onto this forum. Over at weaknees they just keeps telling you to buy a new drive or other part but as an engineer I didn't buy that excuse. I had one drive failure and it was obvious (clicking noise, picture freezing). Having 2 different directv tivos, one with a new drive and both starting to have the same rebooting issue was much more indicative of a software problem. 
Unfortunately I'm not too happy that there doesn't appear to be a solution.
Rich


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## Brainiac427

I was actually doing fine for the past few weeks since I did the Pause-5-2 thing and reloaded the 6.3e version on the alternate partition, although I've used the DirecTiVo sparingly because I don't trust it anymore. Last night just after 6 p.m., the box was off because I was watching a local station on cable when all of a sudden the box turned on spontaneously and was unresponsive. Oh, no, not again...

I unplugged and rebooted it again twice, both times using Pause-5-2 to get the software to install on the original partition again. Under system information, I noticed a successful call to the mother ship went out at 10:19 a.m. yesterday morning, so clearly there was something in that download that made it go bad again. I was keeping the phone line plugged in so that if a fix came out, it could be downloaded. Now, I've unplugged the phone line, and I'll just monitor the forums to see when and if a fix is released.

One question: if I keep my phone line unplugged indefinitely, will I eventually lose my DVR service?


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## stevel

Brainiac427 said:


> One question: if I keep my phone line unplugged indefinitely, will I eventually lose my DVR service?


No, you will not. You will get a nag message after a month of no successful calls, but otherwise it will work fine.


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## Brainiac427

stevel said:


> No, you will not. You will get a nag message after a month of no successful calls, but otherwise it will work fine.


OK, thanks!


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## markbox

Brainiac427 said:


> OK, thanks!


_
Be sure to clear the messages regularly. I've read elsewhere
that if you let the number of messages get too large that the
system will lock up if you try to view them.


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## Brainiac427

markbox said:


> _
> Be sure to clear the messages regularly. I've read elsewhere
> that if you let the number of messages get too large that the
> system will lock up if you try to view them.


Good to know. Thanks for the tip!


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## lawdogillinois

I have a Tivo that when it starts to connect on the phone line it starts to reboot, any suggestion as to what the problem could be. Thanks, Diego


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## gshumaker

During the ACC Championship football game on Saturday, all 3 of my D* TIVO boxes rebooted at the same time. Called a buddy and he said his did too at the exact same time.

Any explanation for this one??

Per DirecTV ... sounds like all 4 of our hard drives are bad!!!


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## Tresclub

I have a Phillips Series 2 DSR704, and have had it for nearly four years. Up until about 2-3 months ago, I had never had any problems with it. It is still in it's default stage, I've never upgraded anything inside it. Currently, the software version is 6.3e-01-2-101 (as of 12-27 11:30pm). I've read a lot about the "rebooting" issue, and I'm wondering if the problem I'm having now is the same thing. I have never seen the Tivo unit "reboot" while we are watching a live broadcast; however, 2-3 months ago, the unit started "powering down" while we are watching a recorded program. Never during a live program, only during a recorded program.

Warren


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## erinb

well, at least I know I'm not alone. 

my directivo's been randomly rebooting for a couple of months now. It seems to be doing it less frequently as of late, or at least not when I'm trying to watch it. i also had the "stuck" image - it happened when I tried to watch live tv or recordings, I could hear the program but just see the recording list screen. 

glad i'm not alone, but i really wish it were fixed.

erinb


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## Rich584

thommygeenh said:


> I have compact fluorescent bulbs only in my house...have used them for years, and they never caused a problem with electronics...I have one lamp just 3 feet from our tivo/tv and never any problems here.


If the ballast goes on a fixture with 40W tubes, you might get interference. Not normally, but you might.

Rich


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## Rich584

erinb said:


> well, at least I know I'm not alone.


You are not alone. I've had the problem for about 5 or 6 months (seems like forever), or whenever 6.3e was sent to us. Turn off both DLBs by putting both tuners on an XM station and the rebooting stops. I've done everything I could think of and have been told by TiVo and D* that it is a software problem. Seems to be happening with all TiVos, not just D*'s. Since one of the posters (gotta find him and thank him) told me about using the XM stations to disable the DLBs I have not had a reboot that I know of and I am still running 6.3e.

Rich


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## Rich584

Tresclub said:


> I have a Phillips Series 2 DSR704, and have had it for nearly four years. Up until about 2-3 months ago, I had never had any problems with it. It is still in it's default stage, I've never upgraded anything inside it. Currently, the software version is 6.3e-01-2-101 (as of 12-27 11:30pm). I've read a lot about the "rebooting" issue, and I'm wondering if the problem I'm having now is the same thing. I have never seen the Tivo unit "reboot" while we are watching a live broadcast; however, 2-3 months ago, the unit started "powering down" while we are watching a recorded program. Never during a live program, only during a recorded program.
> 
> Warren


I'm convinced it is a software problem. That's when our TiVos reboot too. I think that is because of the DLB issue.

Rich


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## Rich584

gshumaker said:


> During the ACC Championship football game on Saturday, all 3 of my D* TIVO boxes rebooted at the same time. Called a buddy and he said his did too at the exact same time.
> 
> Any explanation for this one??
> 
> Per DirecTV ... sounds like all 4 of our hard drives are bad!!!


I've had that happen too. It's not your hard drives. But I haven't seen any evidence of group reboots in quite a while. Now mine do it randomly. Talking to a first line CSR from D* is like talking to a wall. You have to escalate the call until you get someone who has some idea what they are talking about.

Rich


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## Rich584

RichardinArizona said:


> I'm glad I stumbled onto this forum. Over at weaknees they just keeps telling you to buy a new drive or other part but as an engineer I didn't buy that excuse. I had one drive failure and it was obvious (clicking noise, picture freezing). Having 2 different directv tivos, one with a new drive and both starting to have the same rebooting issue was much more indicative of a software problem.
> Unfortunately I'm not too happy that there doesn't appear to be a solution.
> Rich


I posted this on the Series 3 thread about rebooting and freeze ups by mistake.

I keep saying this: It's the software.

It will not reboot if the feeds are unplugged.

It will not reboot if both dual live buffers (DLBs) are eliminated.

It never happened to one of my six SD Series D* TiVos until 6.3e downloaded.

I had a Samsung hooked up a few months ago with no telephone plug. New out of the box. Had 3.something software. Never rebooted or did anything wrong. Plugged in the telephone line after about a month and 6.3e downloaded and the unit started rebooting.

Ponder this. You should come to the same conclusion I have , based on my observations.

This is the answer I got from "Crispy Critter".

Two questions for you:

1. Aren't you posting in the wrong forum? Most of your complaints have been about S2's connected to DirecTV. This forum has nothing at all to do with DirecTV, so nobody can offer insights into your problems. This forum is for S3s and THDs.

2. There are hundreds of thousands of S2s and tens of thousands of S3s/THDs running the identical software you are running, but without your problems. There must be something about your situation which is different from those folks. What is it?

In no way have you proven it's the software. I'm not saying that the problems are not fixable in software by TiVo, but the root cause is something else - one of hardware, signal, or electrical power (the main differences between your situation and most others who do not have the problems.)

Friendly "Critter", huh?

Rich


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## Rich584

RichardinArizona said:


> I'm glad I stumbled onto this forum. Over at weaknees they just keeps telling you to buy a new drive or other part but as an engineer I didn't buy that excuse. I had one drive failure and it was obvious (clicking noise, picture freezing). Having 2 different directv tivos, one with a new drive and both starting to have the same rebooting issue was much more indicative of a software problem.
> Unfortunately I'm not too happy that there doesn't appear to be a solution.
> Rich


I kinda think this has probably been a financial windfall for Weaknees. If I recall, they only guarantee their HDs for a couple months. A better source for HDs is digitalrecording.com. They guarantee their large HDs for three years.

I sent one HD that I had bought from them for a diagnosis and it came back with a clean bill of health. Knew it would, but wanted to make sure. Cost me $40 for the shipping and diagnosis. I bought new multiswitches, ran new wiring, switched dishes from a dual LNB to a five LNB dish and back again and back again, bought a brand new large HD and the reboots never missed a beat.

Disable your DLBs while watching recorded shows. So far I have not had a reboot doing that.

What else could it be but the software?

Rich


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## Rich584

I just went back to the beginning of this thread from last January. The units were rebooting on 6.2 then. Been a year. Wow!

Rich


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## Tburt

Rich584 said:


> I just went back to the beginning of this thread from last January. The units were rebooting on 6.2 then. Been a year. Wow!
> 
> Rich


Neither of my two R10s running version 6.1, nor my Samsung SIR4040R running 6.2a had any reboot problems. (I will not let 6.3x touch any of them) They are solid as a rock. If you want problems, let DTV "upgrade" your DTivos to 6.3. I am staying with the versions (R10 6.1 and SIR4040R 6.2a) I have. It is a software bug with 6.3x. If 6.3F or whatever fixes the rebooting, I may upgrade after I read the forums to see the responses to the updates. I make sure I am one of the last people to let DTV "upgrade" the version on my DTivos.

Some people had problems with 6.2 and previous versions before that. Some may have been software problems, some hard drives going out when it switched partitions during the install process. This problem now with 6.3e is for certain a software bug.


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## Rich584

Tburt said:


> Some people had problems with 6.2 and previous versions before that. Some may have been software problems, some hard drives going out when it switched partitions during the install process. This problem now with 6.3e is for certain a software bug.


Agreed, thank you! And it seems that ALL TiVos are experiencing the same rebooting problem.

Rich


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## Phantom Gremlin

Rich584 said:


> Agreed, thank you! And it seems that ALL TiVos are experiencing the same rebooting problem.


You need to qualify/clarify your statement. Do you mean that every model of DirecTivo ever built has the problem, or every model of TiVo ever built has the problem, or every single TiVo ever built has the problem, or ... ???

As a point of contrast, ATM I have 3 active R10 DirecTiVos, 1 active SAT-T60 DirecTiVo, 2 active TiVo HDs. None are rebooting, and I don't go out of my way to change the tuners to XM.

I think the rebooting happens in certain geographic areas, which means it may be related to information transmitted by DirecTV in conjunction with *local channels*.


----------



## rock_doctor

Rich584 said:


> In no way have you proven it's the software. I'm not saying that the problems are not fixable in software by TiVo, but the root cause is something else - one of hardware, signal, or electrical power (the main differences between your situation and most others who do not have the problems.)


Software companies always blame a problem on the hardware and the hardware companies always blame the problem on the software.

I would be interested in knowing how many actually are having a problem. Our poll shows that about ~67% of forum members are having rebooting issues. If this is consistent across the total customer S2 base that would be hundreds of thousands of units that reboot for no reason. Unfortunately in most of those cases the customers are actually believing DTV when they are told their recorder is bad and they need to replace it with a R15...


----------



## bwash

My hdrv2 did not reboot or freeze up for 2 years straight!! Then when I got 6.3e it rebooted 2 or 3 times a week. Because of that and the fact of the flaky tuner2 problems I ditched it and am using an r10 with 6.1 not connected to the phone line and it is pefect, just like before 6.3e.
I will not be updating, the nag screen once a day is not really a problem.


----------



## Rich584

Phantom Gremlin said:


> You need to qualify/clarify your statement. Do you mean that every model of DirecTivo ever built has the problem, or every model of TiVo ever built has the problem, or every single TiVo ever built has the problem, or ... ???


From what I have read the problems are spread thruout the TiVo spectrum. I only have hands on experience with D*'s Series 2 TiVos. And the problems I have had are only related to the 6.3e software. I would think that every TiVo that has 6.3e would be susceptible to reboots.



> As a point of contrast, ATM I have 3 active R10 DirecTiVos, 1 active SAT-T60 DirecTiVo, 2 active TiVo HDs. None are rebooting, and I don't go out of my way to change the tuners to XM.


If you have 6.3e on each of those TiVos, consider yourself lucky. My R10 reboots. All six of my TiVos reboots. And they all have 6.3e. And they never rebooted until they had 6.3e. I have seen reports of reboots on units using 6.2x.



> I think the rebooting happens in certain geographic areas, which means it may be related to information transmitted by DirecTV in conjunction with *local channels*.


From what I have read, I don't think it is a geographic issue. Both D* and TiVo are aware of this, by the way. D* can solve the problem easily by talking you into swapping the TiVo for one of their proprietary DVRs. They do not reboot randomly.

Rich


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## Rich584

bwash said:


> My hdrv2 did not reboot or freeze up for 2 years straight!! Then when I got 6.3e it rebooted 2 or 3 times a week. Because of that and the fact of the flaky tuner2 problems I ditched it and am using an r10 with 6.1 not connected to the phone line and it is pefect, just like before 6.3e.
> I will not be updating, the nag screen once a day is not really a problem.


Huh, I had the same problem with an HDVR2 with the second tuner. Thought it was a hard drive issue.

Rich


----------



## Rich584

rock_doctor said:


> Software companies always blame a problem on the hardware and the hardware companies always blame the problem on the software.
> 
> I would be interested in knowing how many actually are having a problem. Our poll shows that about ~67% of forum members are having rebooting issues. If this is consistent across the total customer S2 base that would be hundreds of thousands of units that reboot for no reason. Unfortunately in most of those cases the customers are actually believing DTV when they are told their recorder is bad and they need to replace it with a R15...


Definitely a windfall for D*. Just like Ultimate TV (which I liked, and every replacement I got was a TiVo), they will replace your TiVo happily with an R15 and be ahead of the game.

Rich


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## Rich584

Well, so much for the DLB "problem" being solved by tuning to XM stations. Left my TiVo with both tuners on XM stations and it rebooted sometime between 6 o'clock and now. I just turned on a program I was watching and hit the 30 second skip button and went right to the end of the program. It rebooted during the night or earlier today. Nutz.

Rich


----------



## SteveD

Rich584 said:


> Well, so much for the DLB "problem" being solved by tuning to XM stations. Left my TiVo with both tuners on XM stations and it rebooted sometime between 6 o'clock and now. I just turned on a program I was watching and hit the 30 second skip button and went right to the end of the program. It rebooted during the night or earlier today. Nutz.
> 
> Rich


I had tried the same thing for the last few weeks, but my HDVR2 still reboots about every other day. I am still under the impression that it's the guide data that's causing the problem, most likely with the local channels. Even my old RCA standard receiver gets confused with all the subchannel overlays that DirecTv has in the guide now, and needs to be rebooted every couple of weeks to clear it up.


----------



## rock_doctor

**** Red said:


> I had tried the same thing for the last few weeks, but my HDVR2 still reboots about every other day. I am still under the impression that it's the guide data that's causing the problem, most likely with the local channels. Even my old RCA standard receiver gets confused with all the subchannel overlays that DirecTv has in the guide now, and needs to be rebooted every couple of weeks to clear it up.


I agree with your assumption.

The last update had the same problem. The enhanced guide was giving the TiVos a total fit. From what I remember the units would fill up with error data and then crash. They said they fixed the problem but obviously we are back to where we started.


----------



## Rich584

rock_doctor said:


> I agree with your assumption.
> 
> The last update had the same problem. The enhanced guide was giving the TiVos a total fit. From what I remember the units would fill up with error data and then crash. They said they fixed the problem but obviously we are back to where we started.


I'm about to give up and go to the R15. Logic obviously has nothing to do with this. Are you all aware that 6.3e is also a Hi Def software version as well as SD. Think that may have something to do with it? I am stumped.

Rich


----------



## Rich584

**** Red said:


> I had tried the same thing for the last few weeks, but my HDVR2 still reboots about every other day. I am still under the impression that it's the guide data that's causing the problem, most likely with the local channels. Even my old RCA standard receiver gets confused with all the subchannel overlays that DirecTv has in the guide now, and needs to be rebooted every couple of weeks to clear it up.


Do you think that the fact that 6.3e is also a Hi Def version adversely affects the TiVo, reboots, etc? Wouldn't that mean that they are sending two channel guides at once? Is that what you mean? I am now at a total loss.

Rich


----------



## goony

rock_doctor said:


> I would be interested in knowing how many actually are having a problem. Our poll shows that about ~67% of forum members are having rebooting issues.


67% may be too low... some of us (with hacked/Zippered boxes) are still running V6.2a and are "stable", thus we don't squawk. I haven't visited this forum in months!

A more precise question would be "How many of the V6.3x S2 DTivo boxes are experiencing reboot issues?".. or, at least a survey based on current software version (and are having reboot issues) would be enlightening.


----------



## lmk911

I finally reached my limit with the rebooting when my oldest R10 rebooted while I was watching a recorded program and recording Grey's Anatomy. I called DirecTV and I am replacing it with an HR2x (hopefully an HR21) on Monday. Both of my R10s and HR10-250 are running 6e, however this unit has been rebooting on a regular basis since the update.


----------



## Rich584

lmk911 said:


> I finally reached my limit with the rebooting


Me too. I just ordered a new HR21 from D* to replace the TiVo I use for about 3-4 hours a day. I have five HR20s and am actually trusting the HR20-21 more than the TiVos.

Rich


----------



## Pauli

Rich584 said:


> From what I have read the problems are spread thruout the TiVo spectrum. I only have hands on experience with D*'s Series 2 TiVos. And the problems I have had are only related to the 6.3e software. I would think that every TiVo that has 6.3e would be susceptible to reboots.
> 
> If you have 6.3e on each of those TiVos, consider yourself lucky. My R10 reboots. All six of my TiVos reboots. And they all have 6.3e. And they never rebooted until they had 6.3e. I have seen reports of reboots on units using 6.2x.
> 
> From what I have read, I don't think it is a geographic issue. Both D* and TiVo are aware of this, by the way. D* can solve the problem easily by talking you into swapping the TiVo for one of their proprietary DVRs. They do not reboot randomly.
> 
> Rich


I am not having any reboot or freeze issues with my R10 or Philips Series 2 DTivos which have both been running 6.3e. I get Los Angeles locals -- most of the reports of problems seem to be coming from the East coast, and in particular, the Northeast.


----------



## Rich584

Pauli said:


> I am not having any reboot or freeze issues with my R10 or Philips Series 2 DTivos which have both been running 6.3e.


Do you use the 30 second skip? This is very pertinent to the thread.



> most of the reports of problems seem to be coming from the East coast, and in particular, the Northeast.


I just went quickly thru three random pages on this thread and NM, Texas, Ohio, Michigan, Arizona (I think I saw that) Florida, New Jersey and Washington state showed up. Those stuck in my rememory. That seems like a pretty wide geographical spread. I've been looking at that for quite a while, on this and another forum and I can't see a pattern based on where posters live.

As I've said and as other's have said, TiVo is aware of the problem and they HAVE to be working toward a solution. How could they stay in business? That said, it would be nice to see an actual upgrade. Even 6.3f, even tho it won't correct the rebooting problem, would be nice to see.

The other thing I have noticed is that not many of the Hi Def TiVo (the HR10) owners seem to be having rebooting problems and they also have 6.3e.

Rich


----------



## rpiotro

Rich584 said:


> .... cut
> 
> The other thing I have noticed is that not many of the Hi Def TiVo (the HR10) owners seem to be having rebooting problems and they also have 6.3e.
> 
> Rich


Not exactly. My HR10 has a new Seagate DB-35 drive and a new power supply. It will occasionally freeze up and then reboot under the following conditions. If I have both tuners set to a sat channel and I then switch either one of them to an OTA channel either manually or via a scheduled recording, It may freeze for a while. sometimes it will eventually recover, sometimes it will just reboot. It is hit and miss but can be really annoying. I've learned to live with for now but I am not happy.

I have gone back and forth between 6.3e and 3.1.5f. The 3.1.5f is solid as a rock but I really like folders.


----------



## vman

Rich584 said:


> Do you use the 30 second skip? This is very pertinent to the thread.


Hi - new to the thread but have been monitoring it for a while. We have occasional frozen screen, and occasional reboots, but fairly rarely (knock on wood!).

I'm curious why you say the 30-second skip is pertinent. Is that related to the freezing somehow?


----------



## Rich584

rpiotro said:


> Not exactly. My HR10 has a new Seagate DB-35 drive and a new power supply. It will occasionally freeze up and then reboot under the following conditions. If I have both tuners set to a sat channel and I then switch either one of them to an OTA channel either manually or via a scheduled recording, It may freeze for a while. sometimes it will eventually recover, sometimes it will just reboot. It is hit and miss but can be really annoying. I've learned to live with for now but I am not happy.
> 
> I have gone back and forth between 6.3e and 3.1.5f. The 3.1.5f is solid as a rock but I really like folders.


Well, you're gonna have to switch to the HR20/21 soon, so that problem will be solved. Haven't really read many reports of the Hi Def TiVos rebooting, but am not surprised. Seems more prevalent in the Series 2 SD units. Reboots up the whazoo.

Rich


----------



## Rich584

vman said:


> I'm curious why you say the 30-second skip is pertinent. Is that related to the freezing somehow?


The 30 second skip has to be programmed on the remote and each time the DVR reboots you have to reprogram the skip. That is the only way I know of to tell if mine have rebooted over night. When I am watching and they reboot, I obviously know right away, but the lack of the skip catches me sometimes. Watching a football game this last weekend that I had recorded, I hit the skip and went right to the third quarter (it was still recording). Screwed the game up for me.

Rich


----------



## Pauli

Rich584 said:


> Do you use the 30 second skip? This is very pertinent to the thread.
> 
> I just went quickly thru three random pages on this thread and NM, Texas, Ohio, Michigan, Arizona (I think I saw that) Florida, New Jersey and Washington state showed up. Those stuck in my rememory. That seems like a pretty wide geographical spread. I've been looking at that for quite a while, on this and another forum and I can't see a pattern based on where posters live.
> 
> As I've said and as other's have said, TiVo is aware of the problem and they HAVE to be working toward a solution. How could they stay in business? That said, it would be nice to see an actual upgrade. Even 6.3f, even tho it won't correct the rebooting problem, would be nice to see.
> 
> The other thing I have noticed is that not many of the Hi Def TiVo (the HR10) owners seem to be having rebooting problems and they also have 6.3e.
> 
> Rich


Yes, I use 30-second skip all the time (one of the reasons I have not gone to HD yet -- not sure I can live without it).

And yes, I have seen reports here of these problems showing up in western and southern states, but there seem to be far more posts about this from the Northeast. Just my very casual observation.

In any case, my 2 DTivos with 6.3e do not exhibit the freezing or rebooting problem at all. They work as well as they always have. I'm not sure how that can be explained -- it seems like the majority of posters here are under the impression that this problem is inherent to all 6.3e systems, which is not true. The only thing maybe unusual about my boxes is that I have suggestions enabled (something most people here seem to dislike).


----------



## Tburt

Pauli said:


> In any case, my 2 DTivos with 6.3e do not exhibit the freezing or rebooting problem at all. They work as well as they always have. I'm not sure how that can be explained -- it seems like the majority of posters here are under the impression that this problem is inherent to all 6.3e systems, which is not true. The only thing maybe unusual about my boxes is that I have suggestions enabled (something most people here seem to dislike).


It's not that all 6.3e DTivo's have the reboot problems, but the only sure fire way to make sure they do not (disregarding Hardware problems/etc) is to NOT let it upgrade to 6.3e. My two R10's (6.1), and my Samsung SIR4040 (6.2a) are not rebooting/freezing up/whatever. Until this problem is fixed, I will not let them touch a phone line to keep them from updating to 6.3. 6.3 may not cause all of them to act this way, but 6.3e is buggy to a whole lot of DTivos.


----------



## Dkerr24

Continuing with what Tburt said, I have not heard of any DTivo with 6.2a experiencing this problem (except those units with obvious hard drive or power supply failures).


----------



## Rich584

Pauli said:


> Yes, I use 30-second skip all the time (one of the reasons I have not gone to HD yet -- not sure I can live without it).


The HR20/21s have permanent 30 second skips. They call them something else. And it is not as precise as the TiVo, but you get used to it.



> And yes, I have seen reports here of these problems showing up in western and southern states, but there seem to be far more posts about this from the Northeast. Just my very casual observation.
> 
> In any case, my 2 DTivos with 6.3e do not exhibit the freezing or rebooting problem at all. They work as well as they always have. I'm not sure how that can be explained -- it seems like the majority of posters here are under the impression that this problem is inherent to all 6.3e systems, which is not true.


The polls I have seen show about 65% of the 6.3e users have problems. I've never seen a post that said ALL 6.3e users were having problems.



> The only thing maybe unusual about my boxes is that I have suggestions enabled (something most people here seem to dislike).


Suggestions enabled is something that I could not live with. Would rather put up with the rebooting. That said, I doubt if enabling the Suggestions would solve the software problem.

Go buy a lottery ticket, you're a lucky person.

Rich


----------



## Rich584

Dkerr24 said:


> Continuing with what Tburt said, I have not heard of any DTivo with 6.2a experiencing this problem (except those units with obvious hard drive or power supply failures).


A thread on this forum documents people having reboots with 6.2. Give me a minute, I'll post a link.

Don't need a link, see post #18 on this forum. Any forum that is running a thread about reboots and has been running about a year has posts from people running 6.2. All those people posting around that time must have been running 6.2, no? I never had those problems with 6.2. But as soon as I got 6.3, oy!

Really sounds irrational, doesn't it?

Rich


----------



## Dante101

My Mom and I (we live in different cities) have tried a new approach. We used to put our Tivos in "standby" mode when not watching TV, but for over a month now we've just left our Tivos on constantly (and just turning the TV set on/off).

I was having the odd occasional reboot, but my Mom was being plagued with freezes and reboots.

Ever since just leaving our Tivos on 24/7, the problem seems to have gone away.


----------



## Pauli

Rich584 said:


> The HR20/21s have permanent 30 second skips. They call them something else. And it is not as precise as the TiVo, but you get used to it.


This is good news. At least they got _something_ right on the HR20s!



Rich584 said:


> Suggestions enabled is something that I could not live with. Would rather put up with the rebooting. That said, I doubt if enabling the Suggestions would solve the software problem.


I'm a bit curious why you have such a disdain for Suggestions. You could simply ignore them and they don't cause any more wear and tear. Plus, they give you a rough estimate of the remaining hours.


Rich584 said:


> Go buy a lottery ticket, you're a lucky person.


Good idea -- I think I'll do just that!


----------



## bearbig

I have an RCA DVR 80 which rebooted very often after 6.3e allong with getting black and white every once in a while. Called Direct TV who had never heard about any problems! They suggested restarting the unit. It still randomly reboots, but seemingly only just after I turn on the unit. It still goes to black and white randomly both on recorded and live tv.
None of these problems happened with 6.2.

Any ideas other than getting a new unit?


----------



## Rich584

Dante101 said:


> My Mom and I (we live in different cities) have tried a new approach. We used to put our Tivos in "standby" mode when not watching TV, but for over a month now we've just left our Tivos on constantly (and just turning the TV set on/off).
> 
> I was having the odd occasional reboot, but my Mom was being plagued with freezes and reboots.
> 
> Ever since just leaving our Tivos on 24/7, the problem seems to have gone away.


Tried that, no joy. If that were the case, why would we be seeing reboots while watching recorded shows?

Rich


----------



## Rich584

bearbig said:


> I have an RCA DVR 80 which rebooted very often after 6.3e allong with getting black and white every once in a while. Called Direct TV who had never heard about any problems! They suggested restarting the unit. It still randomly reboots, but seemingly only just after I turn on the unit. It still goes to black and white randomly both on recorded and live tv.
> None of these problems happened with 6.2.
> 
> Any ideas other than getting a new unit?


Yeah, have patience, TiVo can't let this continue. A new unit will probably (65% do) do the same thing. Rebooting yourself will do no good. Have to wait for the next major update. Patience.

Rich.


----------



## Rich584

Pauli said:


> I'm a bit curious why you have such a disdain for Suggestions. You could simply ignore them and they don't cause any more wear and tear. Plus, they give you a rough estimate of the remaining hours.


Just a personal preference. I don't like broccoli either. The suggestions seemed like a good way to eat up space on the HD, so I never used them.

The HR20s are running well for me now. They seem to finally have worked the bugs out. The 700 is my choice, not the 100. I am getting a new 21 at the end of the month. Hope that works as well as the HR20-700.

Rich


----------



## Dante101

Rich584 said:


> Tried that, no joy. If that were the case, why would we be seeing reboots while watching recorded shows?


I have no idea. I'm not a tech guy at all. I'm not saying my reboots were happening right when I power-up the unit. In fact, I don't know if I've ever had it happen then. I've just spent the past few months wondering why this affects SOME people and not others. And I started thinking of the different ways in which some people (not everyone) use their Tivos.

And then I remembered the topic which came up years ago about how SOME people put their Tivos on standby and others don't. My mom and I have both been putting our units on standby, so we tried leaving them on 24/7 as a test. And for us, it seems to have worked. Neither of us have had any freezes or reboots. I have one Tivo and she has 3 (30 miles away).

But I do admit that I still have the problem with the picture going to B&W every rare now and then.

So whatever. It seems to have worked for us. Maybe it might work for others here, too - no harm in others trying at least. Sorry if it didn't work in your case.

Again, I'm not a tech guy or anything - just looking for something to explain why everyone wasn't having the same problem - why it only affected certain users. Trying to figure out if there was some common factor among us which may either cause or simply aggrivate this problem.


----------



## vman

Rich584 said:


> The 30 second skip has to be programmed on the remote and each time the DVR reboots you have to reprogram the skip. That is the only way I know of to tell if mine have rebooted over night. When I am watching and they reboot, I obviously know right away, but the lack of the skip catches me sometimes. Watching a football game this last weekend that I had recorded, I hit the skip and went right to the third quarter (it was still recording). Screwed the game up for me.
> 
> Rich


Gotcha, thanks. For us, the bigger issue is the freezing up (requiring us to pull the plug). A reboot, which it appears we have very rarely, doesn't bother me as much as the freezing up, since it does not record stuff when frozen!


----------



## rpiotro

Rich584 said:


> Well, you're gonna have to switch to the HR20/21 soon, so that problem will be solved. Haven't really read many reports of the Hi Def TiVos rebooting, but am not surprised. Seems more prevalent in the Series 2 SD units. Reboots up the whazoo.
> 
> Rich


I plan on getting an HR21 in the spring but I also plan on keeping the HR10. It will replace my current second unit in the living room, an R10 on Ver. 6.1 which will be moved down to the basement. The HR10 will make an excellent high capacity SD recorder and a secondary OTA HD recorder. I would still like to see it be more reliable. I may just go back to 3.1.5f and call it a day.

I do have an RCA DVR40 in the kitchen on 6.3e that has not had a problem but, it is in single tuner mode and I do not record anything. I have it there just for the trick play features.

My R10 has had issues. That is why it is back on 6.1.


----------



## Rich584

Dante101 said:


> I have no idea. I'm not a tech guy at all.


Me too, when they start talking about "partitions in HDs", I have no idea what they are talking about.



> I've just spent the past few months wondering why this affects SOME people and not others. And I started thinking of the different ways in which some people (not everyone) use their Tivos.


I don't see what setting the TiVos in a certain way has to do with it, especially after my vastly disappointing experience with disabled DLBs. It's a software problem that doesn't affect some TiVos running 6.3e. The poll that I read said 65% of the people running 6.3e were having problems. Some people think using a UPS is the answer, tried that and they still rebooted. I even tried a "constant voltage transformer" and it rebooted. I've tried a dual LNB and a 5 LNB dish and they still reboot. I've replaced multiswitches, I've tried new HDs, I sent an HD to the site I bought it from and they concluded there was nothing wrong with it. I purchased a new HD from weaknees.com and it rebooted. Six TiVos I have and those six all reboot randomly and all have 6.3e running on them.



> But I do admit that I still have the problem with the picture going to B&W every rare now and then.


Mine never freeze up or goes to black and white. How do you figure that? With all the reports of freeze ups, none of my TiVos have ever done that.



> Sorry if it didn't work in your case.


If only it was that simple...(sigh).



> Again, I'm not a tech guy or anything - just looking for something to explain why everyone wasn't having the same problem - why it only affected certain users. Trying to figure out if there was some common factor among us which may either cause or simply aggrivate this problem.


I truly think that we will continue to suffer until TiVo lets loose a major national update of the software. Until then, we must be patient. Sad, but true, I think.

Rich


----------



## Rich584

rpiotro said:


> I plan on getting an HR21 in the spring but I also plan on keeping the HR10.


Why don't you work a deal with D* and trade the HR10 for an HR20/21(guess you'd want a 20 because of the OTA issue with the 21)? We have five 20s in the house and they are really stable now. I'm getting a 21 the end of the month.



> My R10 has had issues. That is why it is back on 6.1.


How did you get it back on 6.1? That would solve my problems. Please don't get too technical or I won't understand, and believe me, I want to understand this.

Rich


----------



## Rich584

vman said:


> Gotcha, thanks. For us, the bigger issue is the freezing up (requiring us to pull the plug). A reboot, which it appears we have very rarely, doesn't bother me as much as the freezing up, since it does not record stuff when frozen!


Now, you gotta be seeing the satellite/s about the same as we do in Central NJ. I NEVER see freeze ups. How can this be?

Rich


----------



## Jumi

Still having reboots and freezes on "e". Also get the black & white switch. When I get the b/w, hitting the pause fixes it instantly. Anyone else?


----------



## chuckg

I discovered in September that after a "powering up" incident, whether while watching or when the receiver is in "Standby" mode, both tuners will be on the Tuner 1 channel. When I turn the receiver on I check for identical channel on DLBs.
All times taken from ARCRON "Zeit" radio controlled atomic clock. ~time is retrospective guesstimate generally when I return home after lunch/dinner.
From 11/21/07 to 1/8/08 300GB Seagate w/6.2. Not even a hint of a problem.

1/8/08 160GB Seagate w/6.3e back in. 6.3e downloaded in late August and the beginning of the "troubles".
1/9/08 On @ 2:56 PM. "Powering up" screen when CRT became viewable. Henceforth CRT on before Samsung.
When put on Standby in the evening, Comedy channel had :30 buffer, CNN on w/zero LB. CNN/Comedy (Probably Tuner1/Tuner2).
1/10/08 On @ 12:58:02 on on CNN. Comedy :30 buffer but no FF/FR/etc til channel up/down.
Henceforth receiver left with zero DLBs on CNN (displayed) and MSNBC (alternate). CNN/MSNBC.
1/11/08 On @ ~2:30 PM. CNN/MSNBC. "Powering up" @ 3:03:30
1/12/08 On for hour or so.
1/13/08 Not turned on.
1/14/08 On @ early afternoon. No "Powering up".
1/15/08 On @ ~3:15 PM. MSNBC/CNN. "Powering up" @ 3:59:30 PM. (Normally switch to MSNBC near 4:OO PM.)
1/16/08 On @ ~2:15 PM. CNN/MSNBC. "Powering up" @ 2:48:58 PM. (I realize "powering up" 30 minutes & a 45 after turned on)
1/17/08 On @ 3:04:00 PM CNN/MSNBC. "Powering up" @ 3:34:42 PM. (Clicked Live TV to switch tuners. Entered MSNBC. Checked CNN still on other tuner. Removed Tuner 2 input and got "Searching for...." so CNN is on Tuner 1.)

Unit has never restarted when in Standby mode. It has only restarted as listed above. Did not restart between 1/12 and 1/14 as indicated by CNN/MSNBC at turn on. I don't think it has ever failed to record anything. Nor has it ever rebooted while watching a recording. But it almost never is used to record anything until auto/motorcycle/bicycle/running racing generates schedule conflicts, generally on Sundays and rarely Saturdays.

It generally is on till 7 or 8 PM before I switch to my main unit on a different TV.
Taint Locals, CBS, etc that have been proposed here there and everywhere.

Just looked through messy log:
10/28/07 160GB back in. 6:30 PM. Clear and Delete. (Sunday)
10/29/07 OK (Monday)
10/30/07 On @ 1:17 PM CNN & MSNBC - 0 progress bar on both. "Powering up" @ 1:48:45 PM.


----------



## rpiotro

Rich584 said:


> Why don't you work a deal with D* and trade the HR10 for an HR20/21(guess you'd want a 20 because of the OTA issue with the 21)? We have five 20s in the house and they are really stable now. I'm getting a 21 the end of the month.


HR20's have not been available for a while now. Don't really care. I'll keep the HR10 for OTA.



Rich584 said:


> How did you get it back on 6.1? That would solve my problems. Please don't get too technical or I won't understand, and believe me, I want to understand this.
> 
> Rich


Good, I won't be technical. I'll let them explain it.

http://www.dvrupgrade.com/dvr/stores/1/category.cfm?SID=1&Category_ID=5&learnmore=1


----------



## Rich584

rpiotro said:


> HR20's have not been available for a while now. Don't really care. I'll keep the HR10 for OTA.


But you should be able to switch or swap the HR10 for an HR20 for free and probably keep the HR10.



> Good, I won't be technical. I'll let them explain it.
> 
> http://www.dvrupgrade.com/dvr/stores/1/category.cfm?SID=1&Category_ID=5&learnmore=1


Got it thanx for the link. Did not know it existed. One more thing, which of their products did you purchase to "down grade" the software?

Rich


----------



## rpiotro

Rich584 said:


> But you should be able to switch or swap the HR10 for an HR20 for free and probably keep the HR10.
> 
> Got it thanx for the link. Did not know it existed. One more thing, which of their products did you purchase to "down grade" the software?
> 
> Rich


Instantcake. The versions are somewhat specific to the model that you own.


----------



## Rich584

rpiotro said:


> Instantcake. The versions are somewhat specific to the model that you own.


Thank you..., thank you very much (my Elvis impression).

Rich


----------



## Dante101

Jumi said:


> Still having reboots and freezes on "e". Also get the black & white switch. When I get the b/w, hitting the pause fixes it instantly. Anyone else?


Not here. I've tried hitting pause, play, rewind, live TV - nothing seems to affect the B&W for me. I just gotta wait it out. Fortunately I don't think its ever lasted longer than a minute.

And I tell ya - my phone company keeps sending me brochures about their Uverse service (and I've heard there's a workaround so that I can use a Tivo with it). They offer all the channels I watch now plus a faster internet connection. The only problem is I heard from a friend that his TV and internet connection go down for about an hour approx once a month. But he's in Chicago and I'm in LA - so I don't know if that'll be the case out here as well...

I don't like the idea of my TV going out for an hour (especially if that hour hits at just the wrong time of day), but I also don't like my picture changing to black & white (and my DTV goes down on occasion - when a storm passes through - so maybe it evens out)...

sorry - rambling off...


----------



## cathy lou

Samsung S/R-54040R rebooting randomly and usually daily, both while watching live TV and while recording/viewing Playlist programs. Recording resumes if interrupted, but does not capture lost video during reboot.
We were told by DTV that a "fix" was coming soon....?...to prevent future problems, and that it occurs when a damaged segment of the hard drive is encountered signalling for a reboot! It has been over a month since we were promised "soon".


----------



## Rich584

cathy lou said:


> Samsung S/R-54040R rebooting randomly and usually daily, both while watching live TV and while recording/viewing Playlist programs. Recording resumes if interrupted, but does not capture lost video during reboot.
> We were told by DTV that a "fix" was coming soon....?...to prevent future problems, and that it occurs when a damaged segment of the hard drive is encountered signalling for a reboot! It has been over a month since we were promised "soon".


What can we possibly do but wait? Have patience or switch to D*'s proprietary DVRs.

Rich


----------



## Dkerr24

Rich584 said:


> What can we possibly do but wait? Have patience or switch to D*'s proprietary DVRs.
> 
> Rich


There are options. If you have some PC skills, you could pull the drive, install a stable 6.2 version and begin enjoying stable, rebootless Tivo


----------



## chuckg

cathy lou said:


> Samsung S/R-54040R rebooting randomly and usually daily, both while watching live TV and while recording/viewing Playlist programs. Recording resumes if interrupted, but does not capture lost video during reboot.
> We were told by DTV that a "fix" was coming soon....?...to prevent future problems, and that it occurs when a damaged segment of the hard drive is encountered signalling for a reboot! It has been over a month since we were promised "soon".


I am debugging the reboot problem on my second unit which has a virtually new hard drive and is running 6.3e.

It always reboots 30 minutes plus the time in the dual live buffers (DLBs) when unit put on Standby the night before, which can be up to 30 minutes. For example, I left both DLBs with 15 minutes in them and the reboot was exactly 45 minutes after turn-on the following day. If I leave the DLBs with close-to-zero time in them the reboot the following day will be about 30 minutes and 45 seconds.

I have turned it off for several hours and then back on for several hours without a reboot in the second on-period.

I think something screws up the unit during the overnight Service Download. I unplugged it overnight so it couldn't get the Service Download and it didn't reboot that day. (Need to do it a time-or-two more for confirmation. )

For a recorded program that is scheduled to be the first activity in a new day record two one hour programs simultaneously so both the Sat 1 and Sat 2 tuners are recording simultaneously before your recorded program. If you have the 30 minutes plus DLB time problem the reboot should occur within the 1 hour period.

You might try turning the unit on one hour before you want to watch live TV. Leave the TV off, of course, for the hour.


----------



## gibverse

chuckg said:


> I am debugging the reboot problem on my second unit which has a virtually new hard drive and is running 6.3e.
> 
> It always reboots 30 minutes plus the time in the dual live buffers (DLBs) when unit put on Standby the night before, which can be up to 30 minutes. For example, I left both DLBs with 15 minutes in them and the reboot was exactly 45 minutes after turn-on the following day. If I leave the DLBs with close-to-zero time in them the reboot the following day will be about 30 minutes and 45 seconds.


This adds to the evidence that there is something wrong with the 6.3e code. It is odd that only some users feel the pain of whatever bug is plaguing this release.

My reboots seem to occur at night and my drive is fine (as verified by sector scans on my PC) and I never had a single reboot until 6.3e appeared.

I feel the problem has something to do with when the unit downloads. I'm not sure if it is the guide data or the ads that show up on DIRECTV Central. I have noticed that shortly after the reboots, the ads are not present in the menu. Does anyone else with 6.3e reboots notice this?

There may still be hope on the horizon. If you read out this post on another forum, one users reports that 6.3f has solved their reboot woes.


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## chuckg

gibverse said:


> This adds to the evidence that there is something wrong with the 6.3e code. It is odd that only some users feel the pain of whatever bug is plaguing this release.
> 
> My reboots seem to occur at night and my drive is fine (as verified by sector scans on my PC) and I never had a single reboot until 6.3e appeared.
> 
> I feel the problem has something to do with when the unit downloads. I'm not sure if it is the guide data or the ads that show up on DIRECTV Central. I have noticed that shortly after the reboots, the ads are not present in the menu. Does anyone else with 6.3e reboots notice this?
> 
> There may still be hope on the horizon. If you read out this post on another forum, one users reports that 6.3f has solved their reboot woes.


I presume that Guide data downloads 24/7. I will pull the power plug tomorrow and see if the ads disappear from the menu after a power failure. They are probably stored on the HD as is the menu listing and it takes some time for the software to reinsert the ad listing.

As for your link. The unit is an R10. On another forum there was a very long thread with tales of woe regarding 6.2 or something and 6.3e solved *their* problems. The Series 2 DTivos are the ones having 6.3e problems.

And it would be nice to know which receiver you have.


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## gibverse

I have a DVR40, no hacks or software mods installed.

I realize that the R10 isn't identical hardware. What I was trying to point out is that there are other units that had reboot problems (not due to failing drives) that 6.3f appears to have cured.


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## Sbmocp

Phantom Gremlin said:


> You need to qualify/clarify your statement. Do you mean that every model of DirecTivo ever built has the problem, or every model of TiVo ever built has the problem, or every single TiVo ever built has the problem, or ... ???
> 
> As a point of contrast, ATM I have 3 active R10 DirecTiVos, 1 active SAT-T60 DirecTiVo, 2 active TiVo HDs. None are rebooting, and I don't go out of my way to change the tuners to XM.
> 
> I think the rebooting happens in certain geographic areas, which means it may be related to information transmitted by DirecTV in conjunction with *local channels*.


6.2a is supposed to be 'solid as a rock.' I've had my HDVR2, zippered w/6.2a, reboot on me while I was watching a recorded show. In fact it just happened not five minutes ago, and it's done it multiple times over the past few months. Not every time, mind you, but it has done so.


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## rubybear

Just discovered this thread, I've been posting on the "6.3f is here" thread.

Just wanted to let you know that I am in California, and I've been experiencing the freeze/reboots ever since October, since 6.3e was downloaded. So the problem seems to be nationwide.

It does seem to only happen when I have one or both of my tuners on a local channel, if that helps anyone.


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## bengalfreak

Sbmocp said:


> 6.2a is supposed to be 'solid as a rock.' I've had my HDVR2, zippered w/6.2a, reboot on me while I was watching a recorded show. In fact it just happened not five minutes ago, and it's done it multiple times over the past few months. Not every time, mind you, but it has done so.


That is quite possibly a hard drive failure developing.


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## Sbmocp

bengalfreak said:


> That is quite possibly a hard drive failure developing.


That would be disappointing...the HD is only a year old.


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## Brainiac427

rubybear said:


> Just discovered this thread, I've been posting on the "6.3f is here" thread.
> 
> Just wanted to let you know that I am in California, and I've been experiencing the freeze/reboots ever since October, since 6.3e was downloaded. So the problem seems to be nationwide.
> 
> It does seem to only happen when I have one or both of my tuners on a local channel, if that helps anyone.


I don't think it's related. I disabled both live buffers by leaving them on XM stations, and the thing still rebooted yesterday.


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## JohnDG

Brainiac427 said:


> I don't think it's related. I disabled both live buffers by leaving them on XM stations, and the thing still rebooted yesterday.


The discussion around the XM channels last month had me try something else: channels 0 and 1. I used to work with these in the old HR10 days to try and speed-up the guide functions.

I was getting reboots on my SD TiVo every 2 days, like clockwork, always while watching a recorded program after getting 6.3e. Over the last month I've been making sure that, while watching the TiVo, that the two tuners are either a) recording, or b) tuned to channels 0 and/or 1 as needed. Since this practice, no reboots. And the SD TiVo has gotten a lot quicker.

Hopefully my luck will last.

jdg


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## Brainiac427

JohnDG said:


> The discussion around the XM channels last month had me try something else: channels 0 and 1. I used to work with these in the old HR10 days to try and speed-up the guide functions.
> 
> I was getting reboots on my SD TiVo every 2 days, like clockwork, always while watching a recorded program after getting 6.3e. Over the last month I've been making sure that, while watching the TiVo, that the two tuners are either a) recording, or b) tuned to channels 0 and/or 1 as needed. Since this practice, no reboots. And the SD TiVo has gotten a lot quicker.
> 
> Hopefully my luck will last.
> 
> jdg


I'll try anything at this point. Thanks.

(BTW, the reboots that I've been having have occurred with the machine in standby, in addition to while watching recorded programs, live TV freezing, and active recording being halted with the record light still on and machine unresponsive.)


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## Rich584

gibverse said:


> This adds to the evidence that there is something wrong with the 6.3e code. It is odd that only some users feel the pain of whatever bug is plaguing this release.
> 
> My reboots seem to occur at night and my drive is fine (as verified by sector scans on my PC) and I never had a single reboot until 6.3e appeared.
> 
> I feel the problem has something to do with when the unit downloads. I'm not sure if it is the guide data or the ads that show up on DIRECTV Central. I have noticed that shortly after the reboots, the ads are not present in the menu. Does anyone else with 6.3e reboots notice this?
> 
> There may still be hope on the horizon. If you read out this post on another forum, one users reports that 6.3f has solved their reboot woes.


I read that post and that's only one person. Everything I have read leads me to believe that 6.3f will not fix the rebooting problem. Be nice if it did, but...

Rich


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## Rich584

chuckg said:


> As for your link. The unit is an R10. On another forum there was a very long thread with tales of woe regarding 6.2 or something and 6.3e solved *their* problems. The Series 2 DTivos are the ones having 6.3e problems.


I am beginning to lean toward a combination of software and hardware. If the polls I have read are accurate, 35% of the responders have no problem with the 6.3e software. That's a lot of people.

I took a new, never used Samsung SIR-S4040R and activated it and immediately pulled the phone cord out. Used it for a while and it worked perfectly. NEVER rebooted. Not once. After 3 or 4 weeks, I plugged the cord in and about an hour later the green light came on and 6.3e was downloaded. And the reboots began.

I have about 10-15 TiVos laying around and I'd be willing to bet that if I activated all of them, all of them would start rebooting as soon as they downloaded 6.3e.

But why do some people, quite a few people, have no problem?

Do you think a hardware problem is the actual problem?

Rich


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## Rich584

gibverse said:


> What I was trying to point out is that there are other units that had reboot problems (not due to failing drives) that 6.3f appears to have cured.


Can you provide links to those posts? I've only seen one so far.

Rich


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## Rich584

Sbmocp said:


> 6.2a is supposed to be 'solid as a rock.' I've had my HDVR2, zippered w/6.2a, reboot on me while I was watching a recorded show. In fact it just happened not five minutes ago, and it's done it multiple times over the past few months. Not every time, mind you, but it has done so.


I've read a lot of posts about 6.2x rebooting. Nothing like what's going on with the Series 2 6.3e issues.

Rich


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## Rich584

bengalfreak said:


> That is quite possibly a hard drive failure developing.


Nope. I went so far as to send a large HD that I had purchased at digitalrecording.com and told them what was wrong (it kept rebooting). They called me back a couple of weeks later and said that they had diagnosed the HD and nothing was wrong with it.

The HD was about a year old and had a 3 year replacement warranty. I fully expected to get a replacement HD. Not only did I not get the new HD, they charged me $40 bucks for shipping and diagnosis of the disk.

Purchased a brand new HD from weaknees.com. Soon as 6.3e downloaded reboots began.

I've got six TiVos, different brands, different models, they all reboot. What are the odds of that happening if the problem is the HD?

Until 6.3e arrived, I would have agreed with you. I never had a problem with a TiVo that I couldn't solve by putting in a new HD. Not now.

Rich


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## Rich584

JohnDG said:


> The discussion around the XM channels last month had me try something else: channels 0 and 1. I used to work with these in the old HR10 days to try and speed-up the guide functions.
> 
> I was getting reboots on my SD TiVo every 2 days, like clockwork, always while watching a recorded program after getting 6.3e. Over the last month I've been making sure that, while watching the TiVo, that the two tuners are either a) recording, or b) tuned to channels 0 and/or 1 as needed. Since this practice, no reboots. And the SD TiVo has gotten a lot quicker.
> 
> Hopefully my luck will last.
> 
> jdg


So, you've noticed that it doesn't reboot while recording? I noticed that too during the football season. Then, one fine Sunday afternoon, I'm recording two football games and watching a recorded program and the TiVo reboots. That shot that idea down.

I have noticed that disabling the DLBs in any way lets you watch for a while (I spend about 3 hours a day on this TiVo) and not have a reboot. Went a week or two without a reboot and then they started again. Nothing works.

Rich


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## Rich584

Brainiac427 said:


> I'll try anything at this point. Thanks.
> 
> (BTW, the reboots that I've been having have occurred with the machine in standby, in addition to while watching recorded programs, live TV freezing, and active recording being halted with the record light still on and machine unresponsive.)


Have you called D* and tried getting a different unit? That's a lot of problems in one box.

That won't work. D* would try to give you one of their DVRs. Maybe eBay? A new HD? That's too many problems to blame on 6.3e. I think.

Rich


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## Brainiac427

Rich584 said:


> Have you called D* and tried getting a different unit? That's a lot of problems in one box.
> 
> That won't work. D* would try to give you one of their DVRs. Maybe eBay? A new HD? That's too many problems to blame on 6.3e. I think.
> 
> Rich


I'm willing to wait and see if there's a fix on the horizon. The box performed flawlessly until 6.3e, and even then it worked for the first few weeks into the middle of October before problems began. I did the Pause-5-2 thing again and unplugged the phone line last night after another spontaneous reboot in standby around 10:20 p.m. I haven't had any recording or live TV freezing problems since I did that the first time in November. If doing Pause-5-2 and unplugging the phone line can keep it stable for a few weeks at a time, I might be able to get through it, and I'll try the channel 0 and 1 thing as well.


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## gibverse

Rich584 said:


> Can you provide links to those posts? I've only seen one so far.
> 
> Rich


The only link aside from the one I posted previously is this dvrpedia entry, which doesn't provide any details.

Would you provide a link to your source(s) for 6.3f NOT fixing the issue. I'd like to read over them myself.

Thanks!


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## chuckg

Rich584 said:


> I am beginning to lean toward a combination of software and hardware. If the polls I have read are accurate, 35% of the responders have no problem with the 6.3e software. That's a lot of people.
> 
> I took a new, never used Samsung SIR-S4040R and activated it and immediately pulled the phone cord out. Used it for a while and it worked perfectly. NEVER rebooted. Not once. After 3 or 4 weeks, I plugged the cord in and about an hour later the green light came on and 6.3e was downloaded. And the reboots began.
> 
> I have about 10-15 TiVos laying around and I'd be willing to bet that if I activated all of them, all of them would start rebooting as soon as they downloaded 6.3e.
> 
> But why do some people, quite a few people, have no problem?
> 
> Do you think a hardware problem is the actual problem?
> 
> Rich


The fundamental problem with 6.3e is 6.3e. i.e. the hardware was fine running 6.2a and earlier and was fine when moving back from 6.3e to 6.2 on the same hardware. There may be some aspect of the hardware design that was missed/not understood/etc by the software guys that "causes" 6.3e to be flakey.


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## drf23

I am so confused. THis issue seems to have been around forever and there is no fix in site?

My machine always needs a reboot, becasue the TV loses picture and i notice one tuner is 30 minutes behind on the buffer. I try to change channels and nothing..I probably reboot my system 3 times/week.


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## chuckg

drf23 said:


> I am so confused. THis issue seems to have been around forever and there is no fix in site?
> 
> My machine always needs a reboot, becasue the TV loses picture and i notice one tuner is 30 minutes behind on the buffer. I try to change channels and nothing..I probably reboot my system 3 times/week.


Which receiver are you using? Been displayed on the back or bottom of consumer electronics for 40 or 50 years if I remember correctly.


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## Rich584

chuckg said:


> The fundamental problem with 6.3e is 6.3e. i.e. the hardware was fine running 6.2a and earlier and was fine when moving back from 6.3e to 6.2 on the same hardware. There may be some aspect of the hardware design that was missed/not understood/etc by the software guys that "causes" 6.3e to be flakey.


That's the point I was trying to make. Assuming those polls are correct, 35% of the people running 6.3e have no issues. The hardware must have something to do with it, no?

Rich


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## chuckg

Rich584 said:


> That's the point I was trying to make. Assuming those polls are correct, 35% of the people running 6.3e have no issues. The hardware must have something to do with it, no?
> 
> Rich


Polls on the internet are, for the most part, worthless. I have been with DirecTV since 1999 and have had DTivos since 2004. I never visited any of the 15-or so D* forums I have browsed through daily since September 1, 2007. If I hadn't had problems I wouldn't have taken the poll because I wouldn't even know the site existed. It may well be that only 1% to 5% are having problems. D* probably has a rough idea and they aren't talking.

Hardware may very well have something to do with it. Only D*/Tivo know.


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## ashforth

My Phillips keeps rebooting. I did a complete hard drive reformatting and it worked OK for a day and then started rebooting again. I called DTV and was advised it was a known issue that they're working on around the clock and hope to have a new software revision soon. I have been paying for their protection plan, but they refused to replace the Tivo and said their engineering department told them not to provide replacements. I spoke to a supervisor and got the same assistance.

I just wonder how long I'll be without service.


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## Dkerr24

ashforth said:


> My Phillips keeps rebooting. I did a complete hard drive reformatting and it worked OK for a day and then started rebooting again. I called DTV and was advised it was a known issue that they're working on around the clock and hope to have a new software revision soon. I have been paying for their protection plan, but they refused to replace the Tivo and said their engineering department told them not to provide replacements. I spoke to a supervisor and got the same assistance.
> 
> I just wonder how long I'll be without service.


Definitely sounds like the protection plan is worthless, in this case. They won't send you a R15 unit to replace it?


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## rbtravis

Try messages and settings>restart or reset system>clear thumb ratings and suggestions
Also clear all season passes, see if that works, it may stop the rebooting and you can watch your TiVo till the next software fix. Good Luck,


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## ashforth

My Tivo kept rebooting. I called *D and was told it was a known software problem that Tivo and DTV are working to resolve.

I got an idea last night and unplugged my Linksys wireless USB adapter and the problem went away. I plugged the adapter back in and the problem came back. The USB plub seemed to be the problem. I'm now off network with this one receiver, but at least it now works.


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## ForrestB

Ashforth,

This implies your DirecTivo is hacked - right?

Most users complaining about rebooting have unhacked DirecTivo's with nothing connected to the USB port - so your solution isn't helpful.


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## rbtravis

ForrestB said:


> Ashforth,
> 
> This implies your DirecTivo is hacked - right?
> 
> Most users complaining about rebooting have unhacked DirecTivo's with nothing connected to the USB port - so your solution isn't helpful.


Made up statistics such as most with no facts behind them are useless, any work towards a solution is helpful stop being part of the problem Forrestb try to be part of the solution such as Ashforth. Thank you Ashforth for sharing your results with us and don't listen to the nay sayers who do nothing but complain.


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## bengalfreak

rbtravis said:


> Made up statistics such as most with no facts behind them are useless, any work towards a solution is helpful stop being part of the problem Forrestb try to be part of the solution such as Ashforth. Thank you Ashforth for sharing your results with us and don't listen to the nay sayers who do nothing but complain.


It is true that, according to this thread, the majority of those having reboot problems, have unhacked DTivos.


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## lew

What a rude,and worthless post. There is no evidence that hack status has anything to do with reboots. Looking at a few dozen posters in one thread in one internet board doesn't give you enough data to show anything.

I wouldn't be surprised, *but have no data to back me up* that hacked units might have less issues *because many hacked units are still on older software versions.* The hacked untis would have to be on the same software version as the unhacked units before we could even start a study.



bengalfreak said:


> Again, you are an a$$. It is true that, according to this thread, the majority of those having reboot problems, have unhacked DTivos.


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## codespy

Today, I checked sat signal strength on my HR10-250. I then pressed live TV, screen went black with clock frozen, locked up, then got welcome powering up screen 20 seconds later.

2 nights ago I was watching Boxing from HBO 1 1/2 weeks ago, and my SD-DVR40 rebooted 1 hour into the fight without any buttons pushed on the remote. Last night I replayed the whole thing and worked fine.

If someone replies and says they are both hard drive failures to be, lightning will strike you. For the record, unhacked units, just large drives running .3e.


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## ForrestB

rbtravis said:


> Made up statistics such as most with no facts behind them are useless, any work towards a solution is helpful stop being part of the problem Forrestb try to be part of the solution such as Ashforth. Thank you Ashforth for sharing your results with us and don't listen to the nay sayers who do nothing but complain.


Don't be such a jerk - I simply stated a fact. Most users complaining about rebooting DTivo's in this thread don't have hacked machines. If you can't provide helpful advice - I suggest shutting your trap.


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## rbtravis

HARKIN all the nay sayer speak People trying to provide the and he says don't listen to them.


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## lew

ForrestB said:


> Don't be such a jerk - I simply stated a fact. Most users complaining about rebooting DTivo's in this thread don't have hacked machines. If you can't provide helpful advice - I suggest shutting your trap.


I just read a couple of pages in this thread. Most users don't say if their unitis hacked. I don't think even half disclose what software version they're running.

*Don't be such a jerk Since you can't provide any helpfuyl advice I suggest shutting your trap.*


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## bengalfreak

lew said:


> There is no evidence that hack status has anything to do with reboots. Looking at a few dozen posters in one thread in one internet board doesn't give you enough data to show anything.


s

That was exactly the point of my post. In stating that most of the posters that have reboot problems, are using unhacked units, to me that suggests that hacks are NOT part of the problem.

And I apologize to rbtravis for the rudeness. I completely misidentified who the comments he posted were coming from. In other words, I thought he was someone else.


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