# Roamio Plus & Mini setup nightmares



## hart_bar (Dec 5, 2015)

I recently purchased a Roamio Plus along with 5 Minis. This setup was to replace a very lousy TWC WH-DVR setup. I initially setup the Roamio to get a feel for the TiVO UI and was very pleased. That is when I went all in and got the 5 Minis. That is also when I began to lose my mind chasing setup issues.

I live in a brand new home with a structured wiring closet. I have Cat6 ran throughout the house along with RG-6 to all desired TV locations. In my wiring closet I have an ARRIS SURFboard SB6183 that feeds an ASUS RT-AC68W Router. All Cat 6 is switched via a Netgear ProSafe JGS524Ev2. When I first moved in I cable tested every cat6 cable run. 

I chose to setup the Minis with Ethernet and setup when normally. I used static IPs, set at both the router and TiVos. However I quickly noticed after a short period of time the minis would lose partial connectivity to the Roamio. I could still watch live TV but pretty much everything else provided by the host didn't work including guide and visibility of recorded content. Forcing the network to reset on the mini resolved the issue each time.

The first call into TiVo support I got the "we don't support switches" answer. So, I hardwired directly into the router for the partial setup I had at the time. This was not going to be a permanent solution, I have too many Minis and only 3 available ports on the router. But, the test resolved the DVR disappearing.

I took a flyer and put in another switch just for the TiVo equipment. It was a cheap Netgear GS205. This introduced a different problem. While watching LiveTV I would get a V87 error (Lost Connection) on the Minis. I could immediately hit LiveTV and be back up to speed. However, not an acceptable experience.

My next call yielded the push from support to move to MoCA. I was hesitant but for no real reason other than an unsubstantiated belief that was a lower bandwidth option and I might encounter issues with 5 Minis. But, I relented and ordered the POE filter I needed plus another splitter required to support the tuning adapter TWC requires. I set everything up today all seems to be working except for playback of recorded content. Over the past few weeks I recorded a few movies and was testing out playback on the Minis and I got a v125 error. This might have been present all along Another call to support.....

This time the call digressed into what splitters I have and what coax distribution block was in my wiring closet. The tech wants me to get a higher bandwidth distribution block and the same with the splitter where the Roamio and Tuning adapter. The stuff I have caps out at 1002Mhz. So, I'm going swap those out but I don't have high hopes given the playback error was also there on just the Ethernet based setup, prior to enabling MoCA.

If anyone has fought something similar, I would love to learn from your experiences.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

Is the "coax distribution block" just a passive splitter, or an amplifier? How many ports? If it is an amplifier, the replacement will also need to be MoCA compatible.

You will probably also need a MoCA PoE filter attached to the tuning adapter.


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## hart_bar (Dec 5, 2015)

It is amplified, 8 port. I have an 8 port passive one from an old DirecTV installed that has an upper range of 2150Mhz. 

The POE filter is installed at the service entry point. Are you saying there should be another one? If yes, why is that?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

hart_bar said:


> It is amplified, 8 port. I have an 8 port passive one from an old DirecTV installed that has an upper range of 2150Mhz.
> 
> The POE filter is installed at the service entry point. Are you saying there should be another one? *If yes, why is that?*


Yes.

See this post: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10706105

(Some older modems even require a special install of a MoCA filter, though yours is good-to-go since it has a built-in MoCA filter.)


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

hart_bar said:


> It is amplified, 8 port. I have an 8 port passive one from an old DirecTV installed that has an upper range of 2150Mhz.


Wouldn't hurt to try the passive splitter, but any unused ports should have a 75-ohm termination attached.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Not that it helps you at all, but here's our setup... with 6 Minis and several DVRs all communicating fine through a variety of Netgear switches -- plus a couple more Minis via MoCA. (Non-Tivo devices omitted, obviously.)


```
ASUS RT-N66R
  GS105
    Roamio Pro
    GS116
      GS608v3
        Mini
        Roamio Pro
      GS608v3
        Mini
      GS308v2
        Mini
        base Roamio
      FS605v2
        Mini
      DS104
        Mini
      DS104
        Mini
      ECB3500T(MoCA bridge)
        Mini
        Mini
```


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> Yes.
> 
> See this post: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10706105


Basically, you'll want to follow Cox's tuning adapter self-install instructions, available here...
see: *Cox Tuning Adapter Self Install Kits*​... to see how to *physically connect* your tuning adapter to your DVR.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

hart_bar said:


> It is amplified, 8 port. I have an 8 port passive one from an old DirecTV installed that has an upper range of 2150Mhz.
> 
> The POE filter is installed at the service entry point. Are you saying there should be another one? If yes, why is that?


What device is creating your MoCA network, and where is it located relative to the Minis and that amplifier? (Is the MoCA network-creating device on the input side of the amp, with all the Minis hung downstream of the amp's outputs?)


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## hart_bar (Dec 5, 2015)

I have it connected that way with the exception of the POE filter that isn't inline between the split and the TA. I'm going to replace the splitter with one that has a higher range and I'll drop the POE filter in. For testing purposes I may eliminate the TA and go direct into the Roamio to cut down on variables while I'm stabilizing things.


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## hart_bar (Dec 5, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> What device is creating your MoCA network, and where is it located relative to the Minis and that amplifier? (Is the MoCA network-creating device on the input side of the amp, with all the Minis hung downstream of the amp's outputs?)


The Roamio Plus is creating the MoCA network. Everything is downstream of the amplified distribution block. Service entry point feeds the amp then distributed throughout the house from there. The only POE filter I have is on the service entry point, before the amp.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

hart_bar said:


> For testing purposes I may eliminate the TA and go direct into the Roamio to cut down on variables while I'm stabilizing things.


Excellent plan.


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## hart_bar (Dec 5, 2015)

Well, I'm doing the suggested changes one at a time. I started with replacing the main distribution block that had a higher bandwidth range. After making that change much to my surprise (insert sarcastic face), nothing changed. 


The next step will be to temporarily eliminate the Tuning adapter to cut down on variables. 


Apparently there is a software update that my boxes haven't received yet...no clue why that wasn't the first step in troubleshooting. I've called in on this issue a total of 3 times so I have open tickets, but I've continued to follow their instructions on replacing an item at a time.

Getting real old, real fast.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

hart_bar said:


> *Apparently there is a software update that my boxes haven't received yet...*no clue why that wasn't the first step in troubleshooting. I've called in on this issue a total of 3 times so I have open tickets, but I've continued to follow their instructions on replacing an item at a time.


I've read reports of people's Mini connectivity issues being resolved by getting their DVRs and Minis all updated to 20.5.6.

You may want to force that issue with TiVo support, getting your DVR and Minis all to the latest software release. They should be able to take your TiVo Service Number (TSN) for each device and add them to a list to expedite delivery of the latest software update.

It's possible it may even resolve your Ethernet issue. (He says with little confidence.)



> Getting real old, real fast.


Understandable.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

One last thought, for the present... With your TWC tuning adapter setup, be warned that tuning adapter issues can result in error messages similar to those related to networking problems between a Mini and its host DVR.

See the OP from this thread for a good description of the symptoms and the key snippet of the error message:
*Can't Watch Live TV Now*
Live TV is temporarily unavailable because the (named) *DVR is using a setting that requires all tuners.*​
and this series of followup posts from dereksmall pointing to the cause & solution:

Symptoms
TiVo "signal is too darn high" misdirect
Resolution
The same issue was experienced by another TCFer, as described here, though they were able to resolve the problem merely by rebooting the tuning adapter, per this post, rather than replacing it.

*One critical note*, from both these experiences, relevant to your current troubleshooting is that you'll want to be sure to disconnect the USB cable from the host DVR when you take the steps to remove the tuning adapter from the setup. Only when the USB cable is removed does the DVR consider the tuning adapter disconnected. (Just disconnecting the tuning adapter from the coax while leaving the USB cable connected would likely result in even more problems; whereas, with the tuning adapter and DVR separately fed using a coax splitter, you *could* simply remove the USB connection from the DVR and the tuning adapter would be effectively removed, from the DVR's perspective.)

You should see a message appear on the DVR related to the removal of the tuning adapter when you disconnect the USB cable.


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## hart_bar (Dec 5, 2015)

I completely eliminated the tuning adapter from the equation and the original issue of v125 persists when I try to playback any recording on Roamio from the Minis.

My Roamio is running software version 20.3.6.G4-USA-6-INIT

The Minis are running software version 20.5.4a.RC6-01-6-A93

There are simply no more things to try. I give up.


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## hart_bar (Dec 5, 2015)

Another call in to support and whaddayaknow...there is a problem with my account that was setup on the Roamio that was blocking any software updates. After interrupting the tech to ensure he knew what versions of the software was on both Roamio and Minis, he looked and found the issue. Now I apparently have to wait 3 to 5 days for the update to make it to the Roamio??

I thought it would be as simple as a flag in a database and the next time the Roamio checked in it would get the update. Apparently not.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

hart_bar said:


> Now I apparently have to wait 3 to 5 days for the update to make it to the Roamio??
> 
> I thought it would be as simple as a flag in a database and the next time the Roamio checked in it would get the update. Apparently not.


Ok, that's a baby step in the right direction, yeah?

As for the projected delay, maybe it's similar to the "your Mini activation could take 24-48 hours" caution... and could be expedited via repeated manual service connections to the mothership from each device?

Try forcing several service connections from one (or each) of your devices, making sure to check the status after each successful connection. HOPEFULLY, you'll see a "Pending restart" status sooner rather than later.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

hart_bar said:


> My Roamio is running software version *20.3.6.G4-USA-6-INIT*
> 
> The Minis are running software version 20.5.4a.RC6-01-6-A93
> 
> There are simply no more things to try. I give up.


Holy cow, that's OLD!! 

edit: p.s. Anybody know if there's a listing, somewhere, for the released software versions for each device, over time? (Seems like such a thing would also be handy for one or more TiVo utilities to have access to, to alert the user to out-of-date devices; such utilities, if authorized by the user, could also be used to populate the same list-slash-central tracking database.)


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## hart_bar (Dec 5, 2015)

+1 on the release history. Once I started looking at my version I quickly made the assumption that was the issue. It appears like mine is 24 to 30 months old.

Ultimately my software updating issue was due to the Roamio I bought second hand, but it had never been used/activated, and the account not getting setup correctly for me once I did activate the device. Eventually I should be ok, just wish the techs would look at the data a little closer to find correlations. Again, assuming here, but I would think when these boxes make their daily connection they are logged and that would include what version of software they are running. If not, how else could they know it needs upgrading.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Wholly agree. (edit: The software version could easily be listed in the device preferences section of our TiVo accounts) And I would also think that they'd have the ability to identify a paying customer running a device with a software version 2+ years old, and make some sort of proactive effort to get such obvious problems addressed.

Sheesh.

Fingers crssoed...


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## hart_bar (Dec 5, 2015)

Well, about 30 hrs in and multiple phone home checks and still no updates. I might call back in and rattle cages to see if nothing else I can better understand why it would take this long to get a priority update pushed to a box.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

hart_bar said:


> Well, about 30 hrs in and multiple phone home checks and still no updates. I might call back in and rattle cages to see if nothing else I can better understand why it would take this long to get a priority update pushed to a box.


If you can risk a call without going off on them, yeah, that'd be a good idea. You might also throw all your related TSNs and their associated device types, with a quick summary of your issue -- *highlighting the 2+year-old software version* -- into an email to TiVoMargret:
*[email protected]*​
You need some g-d attention!

(Not that it will help, but I pinged [email protected], here.)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

It sounds like you found a way to get through to them. Hope those downloads are on their way, already.
TiVo (15Dec2015): _Hey Karl, I will pass that on to our folks who can post to the Community forums. Although as a note, if that's the same user as barryhar from forums.tivo.com (which, judging by his issue, sounds like it may be) we have him authorized for the new SW now and it will be downloaded soon!_​
p.s. Oh, interesting feedback from TiVo in their post to the mysterious barryhar...
*TiVo (15Dec2015 8:35am)**:* _Software updates, once you're in the right rollout group for them, would usually take about 24 hours to download and install. The reason for the delay is that *some boxes are getting stuck on starting up after getting 20.5.6* so *we're delaying further release until that can be patched. We're currently looking at end of the day on the 18th as the timeframe we should have a patch out by*; with any luck it will be faster than that and you should see the update well before then._​


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## ClearToLand (Jul 10, 2001)

hart_bar said:


> ...*I used static IPs, set at both the router and TiVos. However I quickly noticed after a short period of time the minis would lose partial connectivity to the Roamio.* I could still watch live TV but pretty much everything else provided by the host didn't work including guide and visibility of recorded content. *Forcing the network to reset on the mini resolved the issue each time*...


@krkaufman,

This immediately reminded me of the ReplayTV DHCP Dual IP Bug: *DHCP Server / ReplayTV Dual IP Bug Revisited (2005) - sfhub* <thinking>.

I'm subscribing just to know the final answer.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

ClearToLand said:


> This immediately reminded me of the ReplayTV DHCP Dual IP Bug: *DHCP Server / ReplayTV Dual IP Bug Revisited (2005) - sfhub*


I've thought the same thing, but haven't seen any evidence to suggest it. Some people solve networking issues by going with static IPs, but you don't see anyone saying they're having trouble because the TiVo is jumping IPs during boot-up.

I think the solution to hart_bar's problem is likely going to be getting his Roamio updated from the 2+ year old software version it's currently running, and in-sync with his Minis.


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## rcr2 (Feb 3, 2007)

I had a problem getting live TV on the mini.. finally got it fixed; error V113, but with an occasional V86. thread is here.


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## hart_bar (Dec 5, 2015)

So the cross posting is me, wanted to see if I got things moving better on one side versus the other. With my job I have virtually no time during the week to look at this stuff so I'm down to just weekends to tinker. The update finally made to the Roamio on Wednesday and things fully resolved with playback from the Minis. I have one connected MoCA and the other Ethernet. Both work well, so far.

It could be a coincidence but since that update to the Roamio I'm having problems with my cable modem (SB6183). About once per day our internet slows to a crawl (works, but barely). Rebooting the modem solves it for 18 to 24 hrs. I've had zero time to look at this but the timing seems awful ironic. I'm wondering if it is the MoCA network causing some sort of issue?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

hart_bar said:


> So the cross posting is me, wanted to see if I got things moving better on one side versus the other. With my job I have virtually no time during the week to look at this stuff so I'm down to just weekends to tinker. The update finally made to the Roamio on Wednesday and things fully resolved with playback from the Minis. I have one connected MoCA and the other Ethernet. Both work well, so far.


Great to hear. Though are you feeling nostalgic for the Roamio Classic interface? Did your Roamio even have the OnePass update?



> It could be a coincidence but since that update to the Roamio I'm having problems with my cable modem (SB6183). About once per day our internet slows to a crawl (works, but barely). Rebooting the modem solves it for 18 to 24 hrs. I've had zero time to look at this but the timing seems awful ironic. I'm wondering if it is the MoCA network causing some sort of issue?


It *shouldn't* be related, since that modem is MoCA-proof. Supposedly. And I wouldn't think that any downloads the Roamio might be doing would be that intrusive on your overall download rates.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

hart_bar said:


> So the cross posting is me, wanted to see if I got things moving better on one side versus the other. With my job I have virtually no time during the week to look at this stuff so I'm down to just weekends to tinker. The update finally made to the Roamio on Wednesday and things fully resolved with playback from the Minis. I have one connected MoCA and the other Ethernet. Both work well, so far.
> 
> It could be a coincidence but since that update to the Roamio I'm having problems with my cable modem (SB6183). About once per day our internet slows to a crawl (works, but barely). Rebooting the modem solves it for 18 to 24 hrs. I've had zero time to look at this but the timing seems awful ironic. I'm wondering if it is the MoCA network causing some sort of issue?


Your modem has a status display and an event log. Check the accuracy of your modem's time first. Perhaps they can shed some light on your problem. Also, when things are "slow", get a second opinion from www.speedtest.net in case it's your provider.

I have my router above my SB6183. The router sits on metal. The modem is shielded and has a fan. I have problems with interference. On my system, the modem is at 192.168.100.1, but yours may be different.


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## hart_bar (Dec 5, 2015)

I'm going to monitor the logs on the modem, good plan. My experience so far is that it is indeed a problem on my end versus TWC. So far I'm 3 for 3 in rebooting the modem and the problem going away immediately. I've sampled multiple devices in the house and the symptoms are consistent with each. When the problem exists my speeds are a trickle. Diagnosing this stuff is not my strong suit. I can generally troubleshoot through common sense trial and error, that's about it.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

hart_bar said:


> I'm going to monitor the logs on the modem, good plan. My experience so far is that it is indeed a problem on my end versus TWC. So far I'm 3 for 3 in rebooting the modem and the problem going away immediately. I've sampled multiple devices in the house and the symptoms are consistent with each. When the problem exists my speeds are a trickle. Diagnosing this stuff is not my strong suit. I can generally troubleshoot through common sense trial and error, that's about it.


A note on the log file. If you get the same error, a new entry is not made but the date & time are updated. My modem time is 8 hours ahead, so it's a waste. I also had to replace a Vizio TV since it was causing a lot of errors. I have 16x4 and my errors after a week are 12 corrected on one channel. I would get disconnected with the TV causing interference.


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## hart_bar (Dec 5, 2015)

I've added a POE filter just before the cable modem to see if that has a positive effect. I also swapped out the TWC provided splitter with one of my newer, higher bandwidth ones. I probably shouldn't have made two changes at once but oh well!


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

hart_bar said:


> I've added a POE filter just before the cable modem to see if that has a positive effect. I also swapped out the TWC provided splitter with one of my newer, higher bandwidth ones. I probably shouldn't have made two changes at once but oh well!


Did that help, or no change?


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## hart_bar (Dec 5, 2015)

So far so good. POE filter and splitter have been in place for 30+hrs and I've not had a recurrence of the issue yet. Not quite ready to declare victory but things have been stable.


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