# Tivo OTA only



## jedispork (Feb 18, 2008)

hello. I'm trying to get away from cable/sat services. We mostly watch dvds so netflix works great for us. I do like to keep up on a few tv shows before everyone spoils them otherwise I would wait for the dvd's.

The tv shows we watch are ota. I've been searching for a simple way to record some of these shows in HD and it looks like Tivo is the only option right now. 
I also required something with a dual tuner. The sat companies like to punish you for not having a phone line with a dual tuner or they dont allow you to use it at all. 

How many people here bought a tivo just for ota? I hope I've made the right choice. At least I will already have a compatible box if my gf gives in and wants cable. 

Will they ever make some ota only tivo boxes with discounted rates? I think this would be a good time with the switch over coming up. I don't really think its fair to charge the same prices for ota only but its still worth the convenience. 

We might go with the prepaid year and see how it works out. Could I expect similar rates next year?


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

My Series 3 TiVo records OTA and OTA only.

I do have DirecTV, but the S3 only gets the local network programs.


phox


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## tivo_madness (Jun 20, 2005)

I have a tivo s3 just for ota in sf bay area. Works beautifully! No cable/satellite bill either!


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## LifeIsABeach (Feb 28, 2001)

The Series 3 (which you might be able to find, but has been discontinued) and the TiVo HD are the only two TiVo boxes which will record OTA and have dual tuners (the Series 2 DT has dual tuners, but cannot do OTA). You can hook either up to your broadband network so no need for a phone line. It is doubtful that TiVo will ever produce and OTA only unit or charge less for OTA-only users.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

The TiVoHD as it is is pretty cheap for an HD unit.

TiVo only has one level of service, regardless of your source. There is no reason to charge less because you you only have OTA, as guide data is only a small part of the service.

If you want less, you need to consider non TiVo DVRs.


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## TolloNodre (Nov 3, 2007)

S3, OTA only, works great! And I think I get as many OTA channels (counting all the subchannels) as the lifeline basic cable! I prepaid a year Tivo Service and worth every penny to me, never even thought it should be less than a cable subscriber. I use a lot of the Tivo features, including Live365, etc. etc. with my DSL. I get as much out of it as any cable user would, except I don't have to deal with cable and their idiotic cablecards.


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## TheGreenHornet (Nov 1, 2007)

OTA in the Philly burbs with a shinny new series 3 and loving it! 

The Series 3 is still on Amazon for $585 today plus a $200 rebate. I know cause I looked it up today for a friend who is OTA and is also interested in the Series 3. The dual tuner feature on the Series 3 is a must have especially during the February rating sweeps with Lost being opposite of CSI Vegas. 

My Series 3 is packed with OTA network primetime programming. I found so many network shows in HD via OTA that I never watched before. The drive is full of HDTV shows like the CSIs that I have to get through so I can delete those shows to record more shows next week. The box was recording all night during prime time.

A Tivo box for just OTA a lower costs? I am already saving money by not paying for Comcast cable. In fact, the money I saved in 2007 on no cable paid for my Series 3 gift to myself for Christmas with a little extra change left over.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

classicsat said:


> If you want less, you need to consider non TiVo DVRs.


The Sling comes to mind


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

classicsat said:


> If you want less, you need to consider non TiVo DVRs.


Also, there are "VCR-like" recorders, including DVD recorders (currently regular DVD, not high-def DVD), with ATSC (ota HD) tuners..

look around:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&forumid=106

BTW, Tivos are more reliable IMHO.. (I have a non-Tivo hard drive/DVD recorder which I still use VERY regularly and it has one thing, a free space indicator, that I truly wish Tivo would add.. but overall it's a piece of junk compared to Tivo..)

I think some people would be happy with a VCR-like recorder. I think they'd be more happy with a Tivo, especially with lifetime subscription (no monthly bills)..


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

I went OTA with an S3 back on the FD sale in June 2007. The money I saved by dropping D* has paid for the S3 already. I prepaid for 3 years, so Tivo service is $8.31/mo.

I love it. 99&#37; of the content from the $70/mo sat bill is garbage IMO. Why pay for garbage?


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## NoVa (Feb 26, 2006)

Iam in the same boat as many of you: OTA HD is what I crave everyday.
Question: many of you have a S3 HD.

Is that a 'better' proposition @ $130 more than a TiVoHD?
My main concern is getting as much 'freeHD' as possible recorded.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

get the TiVo HD. Right now it is your best bet for reliable HD OTA and does indeed support cable for future use. Also you have TiVoCast and UNBOX rentals so if digital downloads get better then you are ready for that as well.

I have a TiVo HD, 30$ OTA antenna, analog cable hookedup and Netflix. The TiVo HD in this configuration is rock solid.

Sometime toward the end of this year DISH is going to be putting out an OTA only DVR but no one knows how well they will work and they are of course first generation of that type. Other than DVD recorders I have not seen anything else OTA only.


PS - for NoVa, the TiVo HD and S3 are comporable in this arena. Best to save the bucks for a better OTA antenna


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

For what it can record, there is no difference between the Series 3 or TiVoHD. The Series 3 just has some premium "external" features and larger HDD. Both fundamentally work the same way.


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## TheGreenHornet (Nov 1, 2007)

NoVa said:


> Iam in the same boat as many of you: OTA HD is what I crave everyday.
> Question: many of you have a S3 HD.
> 
> Is that a 'better' proposition @ $130 more than a TiVoHD?
> My main concern is getting as much 'freeHD' as possible recorded.


As noted in the thread the Series 3 vs the HD are essentially the same product except for the exterior displays and bigger hard drive. It really comes down to personal choice on these differences in Tivos.

From my personal usuage experience with the my Series 3 upgrade from the Series 2 - a new HDTV and OTA - I am SO glad I chose the series 3 Tivo. Today the drive is full of network primetime shows just waiting to be watched. So much so there are no new additions to the To Do List as of 02/24/08 from my Season Passes. When I try to force it to record Dexter for Sunday in HD - I get a message saying the machine will not record it based on current projections or it will want to cancel Cold Case before it.

The solution is really simple - I have to watch and delete the shows already recorded. As room is made on the drive the shows pop up in the To Do List for future recording. Personally, I am so glad I got the S3 for extra drive space. Plus, the S3 looks great in my home theater unit. I really liked the exterior design and LCD display showing the shows it is recording.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

I don't personally think there's much of a real difference in drive space between the two to justify the cost. Neither is remotely big enough for my use.

Right now Western Digital's $200 external DVR drive is the only officially supported way to expand that (which gives either plenty of space for my use). I'm not sure if other eSata drives are supported or not, and I'm not 100% sure what happens to your shows if one of the two drives dies.


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## flatcurve (Sep 27, 2007)

Puppy76 said:


> I don't personally think there's much of a real difference in drive space between the two to justify the cost. Neither is remotely big enough for my use.
> 
> Right now Western Digital's $200 external DVR drive is the only officially supported way to expand that (which gives either plenty of space for my use). I'm not sure if other eSata drives are supported or not, and I'm not 100% sure what happens to your shows if one of the two drives dies.


The series 3 can be expanded with just about any eSATA drive, where as the TiVoHD can not. If the married drive dies, you will have to "divorce" the two drives, and will lose any recordings made after the drives were paired. If your internal drive dies, then you'll lose everything.


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## visionary (May 31, 2006)

S3 OTA only and very happy with it. Use a good antenna. If you later miss Discovery or Natl Geographic, pick up an old S1-2 for next to nothing and get DISH. I do that and very happy.


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## jedispork (Feb 18, 2008)

the science/nature channels are really the only things I might miss. Most of the really outstanding shows on them can be rented from netflix anyway cant they? I have planet earth on blu ray and would like to add a few others to my library.

I did decide to pickup basic cable for 8 bucks a month which has pbs and some other things I cant receive. I have 4 locals that come in no problem. cbs, abc , nbc, and fox. 

What I want to do is use the tivo for getting season passes on things like lost(ota). 

For the basic cable channels could I still setup manual timers if I can't receive the guide info? I hope this box can help me use both ota and basic service together. My bill will still be under 20 bucks and I can cancel the basic at anytime. 

The tr-50 looks great but I might wait a few years until its established. I guess I don't mind paying a small fee for basic services. The whole idea is to get my girlfriend away from expensive pay tv which will save us a lot of money down the road.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

jedispork said:


> For the basic cable channels could I still setup manual timers if I can't receive the guide info?


Why wouldn't you have guide info? You have to subscribe to service for the Tivo to work, if that's what you mean, but you can manually set up times to record if you want to (though normally there's no reason to as you just create a season pass with the settings you want).



> I hope this box can help me use both ota and basic service together. My bill will still be under 20 bucks and I can cancel the basic at anytime.


I may be wrong, but I don't think it will do both sources at the same time, but it shouldn't matter. Everything you get over the air should also be transmitted through basic cable too. If you decide to cancel cable, you can just go into the settings and switch over to over the air instead.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

You will get guide data for analog basic cable channels, just not digital without cablecards.

You can also set up for OTA at the same time and use that, and seamlessly use both.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I have a TiVo HD, 30$ OTA antenna, analog cable hookedup and Netflix. The TiVo HD in this configuration is rock solid.





Puppy76 said:


> I may be wrong, but I don't think it will do both sources at the same time


as stated above, I do this right now and it works great. You can also do this with cable cards installed as well if you want.


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

jedispork said:


> The sat companies like to punish you for not having a phone line with a dual tuner or they dont allow you to use it at all.


Actually, the HR20 and HR21 from directv can connect using the built in ethernet port, in place of the phone line and both have a dual tuner. However, you still would need to subscribe to satellite services.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

classicsat said:


> You will get guide data for analog basic cable channels, just not digital without cablecards.
> 
> You can also set up for OTA at the same time and use that, and seamlessly use both.





ZeoTiVo said:


> as stated above, I do this right now and it works great. You can also do this with cable cards installed as well if you want.


Thanks! That's neat, I had no idea they'd let you do that (although I think generally you shouldn't need to...except yeah, I guess the S3 doesn't support clear QAM or whatever it's called, so if you wanted HD and didn't have a cable card you'd need to use OTA).


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## miller890 (Feb 15, 2002)

Does anyone know with TimeWarner, if you drop Cable TV service and just keep just Internet service, do they block their analog channels? From the comments above it looks like you can get guide data for cable and OTA at the same time.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

Policy, I am sure, would be to trap all analog and digital TV channels, if possible. What happens in the field may be different though.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Puppy76 said:


> Thanks! That's neat, I had no idea they'd let you do that (although I think generally you shouldn't need to...except yeah, I guess the S3 doesn't support clear QAM or whatever it's called, so if you wanted HD and didn't have a cable card you'd need to use OTA).


exactly that. I did not mention clear QAM before but TWC bumped me to the first digital tier for free when I went with VOIP and I do see the clear QAM channels but with no guide data. the OTA antenna fixed that. My OTA comes from 3 different directions though so I have it aimed for FOX right now. I am debating between seeking an antenna that can do omni-directional or just getting cable cards. It seems the cable card installs are going far better now.


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## Luke M (Nov 5, 2002)

Puppy76 said:


> Everything you get over the air should also be transmitted through basic cable too.


Not necessarily. OTA signals don't respect "TV markets", so you might get quite a different set of channels. The channels carried on cable may not even be the closest to you.

In addition, some channels may not be carried because they don't have "must carry" rights, or because the broadcaster doesn't give cable permission to carry them.


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## Cue-Ball (Oct 8, 2002)

I just installed my new OTA-only Tivo HD yesterday. I'll be calling Comcast today to drop cable service. The things that I watched on cable I will either wait and watch via Netflix after they come out on DVD or I'll learn to live without. The money I save on cable will pay for the Tivo in less than 9 months.

Last night was my first cable-free night in years. I can't wait for my regular shows to start back up because there's not a whole lot on the over-the-air networks right now. My wife and I actually resorted to watching a dancing contest just so we could see something in HD.


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## jedispork (Feb 18, 2008)

my tivo hd showed up along with a silver sensor antenna. I'm very happy with this setup so far. My girlfriend seems to be ok with it too. 

Channel surfing on ota is boring but thats the whole point of getting a tivo box. When there is something good it can be recorded. I helped my girlfriend setup season passes so there will always be something to watch. 

I was able to pick up a pbs station with the silver sensor so I called and canceled the "basic" cable package I was going to have installed. 
I might buy a good coax and experiment with antenna placement around the house. What are all the main networks everyone should have? 

I also bought a rf modulator so I could connect the tivo to our analog tv in the bedroom. With a leapfrog remote extender its just like having another box in that room.

thanks again to everyone for replying.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

jedispork said:


> I might buy a good coax and experiment with antenna placement around the house. What are all the main networks everyone should have?
> 
> I also bought a rf modulator so I could connect the tivo to our analog tv in the bedroom. With a leapfrog remote extender its just like having another box in that room.
> 
> thanks again to everyone for replying.


Umm, check antennaweb.org for info about what stations you should be able to receive.

You got a TivoHD, but have a TV so old it doesn't even have RCA inputs? (I'm using a Series 3 & a TivoHD entirely in analog basic on cable for now, with an old TV.. but at least it has composite inputs.. heh.. even an S-video input.)


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

mattack said:


> ...You got a TivoHD, but have a TV so old it doesn't even have RCA inputs?


Eh, with my brief time with a Series 3 it looked really nice on an SDTV. Noticeably better with a digital signal than the analog signal looks. I'm kind of weird though in that for TV and movies I don't really care about the resolution all that much (I'm a lot picker with it comes to games).


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## TolloNodre (Nov 3, 2007)

mattack said:


> Umm, check antennaweb.org for info about what stations you should be able to receive.


Try TVFool instead of antennaweb:
http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29

Antennaweb is way too conservative and usually only shows half the stations you can really get (conspiracy nuts say it's because it's partially owned by the cable cos)

Plus TVFool gives you a nice directional map for the broadcasts.


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## jedispork (Feb 18, 2008)

mattack said:


> You got a TivoHD, but have a TV so old it doesn't even have RCA inputs?


Actually it does have s-video and composite. It was just easier using a single cable so I don't have to make huge holes in my house. This is just a bedroom tv. The tivo hd is hooked up for 2 sets.

I have a 46 1080p lcdtv and a bluray player for my main set.

My local channels are nbc, abc, cbs, fox, and just picked up a pbs with the new antenna. I guess what I'm asking are these all of the important ota networks?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

jedispork said:


> My local channels are nbc, abc, cbs, fox, and just picked up a pbs with the new antenna. I guess what I'm asking are these all of the important ota networks?


CW and MyNetwork TV are the others although it is debatable whether you should call them important. Sometimes they are only available as a subchannel to one of the major channels so you might not get them in HD. Since MyNetwork rarely shows anything in HD, you will not miss much there.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

My local CW station is only available on cable OR over the air HD as a substation (basically OTA HDgives me several more channels free). I forgot that "My Network" or whatever it's called exists. I used to watch mine all the time when it was UPN, but then it became "My Network" and the (cable only) WB station became CW.

Not at all confusing


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

The yet-to-be-released Echostar DVR does OTA only and will not have a service fee. It will use the "free" guide data transmitted by PBS. There are questions as to how reliable this guide data will be, but if you're only to record once in a while, why not wait until it comes out and try it?


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

TolloNodre said:


> Try TVFool instead of antennaweb:
> http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29
> 
> Antennaweb is way too conservative and usually only shows half the stations you can really get (conspiracy nuts say it's because it's partially owned by the cable cos)
> ...


Interesting, tvfool shows all of the stations I care about in green.. 322, 328, 45, 48 degrees are what I need.. so I guess I still don't really know what kind of antenna I need.
I should probably try one of those indoor antennae, but they all look like they're designed for looks and are no better than an ancient loop antenna. (I *did* try hooking a really old telescoping rabbit ears type antenna to my S3 a long time ago. I was only able to get 1 channel.)


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

mattack said:


> I should probably try one of those indoor antennae, but they all look like they're designed for looks and are no better than an ancient loop antenna. (I *did* try hooking a really old telescoping rabbit ears type antenna to my S3 a long time ago. I was only able to get 1 channel.)


Rabbit Ear antennas(antenni?) are more for VHF frequencies, most Digital/HD channels are in the UHF range.
An old loop or bowtie antenna surprisingly gets really good digital/HD reception.

phox


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

phox_mulder said:


> Rabbit Ear antennas(antenni?) are more for VHF frequencies, most Digital/HD channels are in the UHF range.
> An old loop or bowtie antenna surprisingly gets really good digital/HD reception.
> 
> phox


Right now. My understanding is that when analog transmitters get shut off, they ones on (upper at least) UHF will go down to VHF.


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## TolloNodre (Nov 3, 2007)

classicsat said:


> Right now. My understanding is that when analog transmitters get shut off, they ones on (upper at least) UHF will go down to VHF.


It varies widely from market to market.

You can go to this link at AVSForum:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12890633#post12890633

And download an excel file that lists every DMA with current and post-switchover channel assignment.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

BobCamp1 said:


> The yet-to-be-released Echostar DVR does OTA only and will not have a service fee. It will use the "free" guide data transmitted by PBS. There are questions as to how reliable this guide data will be, but if you're only to record once in a while, why not wait until it comes out and try it?


That sounds suspiciously like the old Sony HDD units (without cable). They, too, used the guide data though the local PBS feed.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Bierboy said:


> That sounds suspiciously like the old Sony HDD units (without cable). They, too, used the guide data though the local PBS feed.


That's what I was thinking. It's "TVGuide OnScreen", and it's atrocious. I had a DVR that used it, and it got worse and worse the longer I used it. A month in it was randomly recording things I hadn't asked for and skipping things I had asked for.

And the interface was atrocious on top of that.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Bierboy said:


> That sounds suspiciously like the old Sony HDD units (without cable). They, too, used the guide data though the local PBS feed.


It will most likely be using the new digital version of TVGOS that is suppose to be much better than the old analog TVGOS and it will also come from CBS stations if I am not mistaken.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

I wonder. It could be 10x better and still be pretty hideous, considering the old version just plain didn't work, and had the least intuitive interface I've ever seen on a DVR.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Puppy76 said:


> I wonder. It could be 10x better and still be pretty hideous, considering the old version just plain didn't work, and had the least intuitive interface I've ever seen on a DVR.


I think the data and the interface are 2 different things. I was referring to the guide data itself.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

rainwater said:


> It will most likely be using the new digital version of TVGOS that is suppose to be much better than the old analog TVGOS and it will also come from CBS stations if I am not mistaken.


Well, it only had one way to go....and that was up. I didn't find the guide data all that accurate.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

TiVoHD is great. And if you happen to maintain a cable modem, your cable company usually throws in a few channels for free (or almost free). Limited basic here comes with quite a few channels.


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