# Doctor Who - The Day Of The Doctor 11/23/13



## pteronaut (Dec 26, 2009)

Wow!

He finally agreed to appear in an anniversary special. (Chills ran through my body as soon as I heard his voice.)
I don't know why Eccleston wasn't a part of this though.

Still not sure how they'll wave away the regeneration limit.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

pteronaut said:


> Still not sure how they'll wave away the regeneration limit.


I'm sure that finding Gallifrey will be a big part of that.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

A reward from the Time Lords as well as forgiveness, maybe?

He DID save the planet and 2.7 billion children as well as who knows how many adults!

Loved seeing the 'curator' as well as the glimpse of Peter Capaldi. That final shot of all the Doctors (minus Capaldi) was awesome. I'd love to get that as a poster.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

That voice. Baker said he was in the special, but I had my doubts until he spoke. Amazing, absolutely amazing.

Greg


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

John Hurt was fantastic. The whole thing was very well done.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

I thought it was great (though not in my top 5 episodes). The only negatives were the glaring absence of Eccleston, who clearly should have been the Hurt Doctor, especially jarring when we did not see the end of his regeneration, and the lack of old Doctor stuff until the end, I thought they could have done more with the old Doctors. I feel like our lack of attachment to Hurt really, ahem, hurt the show.

I also loved the Capaldi cameo and the "stirring" end. I liked how every time I said to my daughter "that doesn't really make sense" they would address it in the next scene. The early scenes with Tennant and Smith were great. I laughed a lot through the episode.

One thing I didn't quite understand is that, I think, at the end of the last episode they were in that cave with Hurt and Smith but that all seemed forgotten.

Also we had that little scene with the Zygon and the scarf wearing girl but it never was developed. My daughter, who loves the Weeping Angels, thought we were going to see them and was audibly disappointed it was a Zygon


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

I wonder if we are supposed to assume that Hurt regenerated into Eccleston and on the subject of Hurt regenerating... WTH is with the spontaneous regeneration? that's rhetorical, I'm not looking for overvalued 2 cent theories.



TonyTheTiger said:


> That final shot of all the Doctors (minus Capaldi) was awesome. I'd love to get that as a poster.


Loved it.

Looking forward to Capaldi's Doctor even more now that it appears he'll have a purpose beyond fighting the motw.


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## lambertman (Dec 21, 2002)

I want to go back and watch it again, but I'm waiting since I'm paying to see it on the big screen.

Just about perfect. Or as perfect as the lack of Eccleston would let it be.


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## ThePennyDropped (Jul 5, 2006)

I was so looking forward to it, but I was really disappointed. It felt so contrived, like they were desperately trying to find a way to change the history of what the (8.5th) doctor had had to do (destroy both the Daleks and the Timelords) without actually changing that history and incurring the wrath of fans upset about the lack of continuity. In what way is putting Gallifrey in some type of time freeze any more humane than destroying them? Either way, they're not living their lives.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

scandia101 said:


> I wonder if we are supposed to assume that Hurt regenerated into Eccleston and on the subject of Hurt regenerating... WTH is with the spontaneous regeneration? that's rhetorical, I'm not looking for overvalued 2 cent theories.


I think that ties into the mini-sode, "The Night of the Doctor." It was the elixir that the Sisterhood of Karn gave him that caused him to regenerate into the War Doctor. Once the war ended, the effects of the elixir wore off, and he regenerated.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

ThePennyDropped said:


> I was so looking forward to it, but I was really disappointed. It felt so contrived, like they were desperately trying to find a way to change the history of what the (8.5th) doctor had had to do (destroy both the Daleks and the Timelords) without actually changing that history and incurring the wrath of fans upset about the lack of continuity. In what way is putting Gallifrey in some type of time freeze any more humane than destroying them? Either way, they're not living their lives.


Because it still gives hope that they can be released from being frozen and can return to living their lives, something that they couldn't do if the Doctor had pushed the big red button. Clearly, the quest to release Gallifrey from stasis is what we're set up for now.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

ThePennyDropped said:


> I was so looking forward to it, but I was really disappointed. It felt so contrived, like they were desperately trying to find a way to change the history of what the (8.5th) doctor had had to do (destroy both the Daleks and the Timelords) without actually changing that history and incurring the wrath of fans upset about the lack of continuity. In what way is putting Gallifrey in some type of time freeze any more humane than destroying them? Either way, they're not living their lives.


Well, all they really did was nod to what they had already established...that the Time Lords had survived the war, and were...elsewhere.

Now, we just know how they got there, and why the Doctor thought he killed them when clearly he didn't.

And clearly they're not frozen from their own perspective, because they're still active, under certain circumstances.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, all they really did was nod to what they had already established...that the Time Lords had survived the war, and were...elsewhere.
> 
> Now, we just know how they got there, and why the Doctor thought he killed them when clearly he didn't.
> 
> And clearly they're not frozen from their own perspective, because they're still active, under certain circumstances.


Right, duh! "The End of Time," and all that! *smacks head*


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

ThePennyDropped said:


> In what way is putting Gallifrey in some type of time freeze any more humane than destroying them? Either way, they're not living their lives.


Because there's hope of bringing them back. And to the people on Gallifrey, there is no time passing.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

LoadStar said:


> Right, duh! "The End of Time," and all that! *smacks head*


Which is the episode they showed on BBC America right after Day of the Doctor.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I enjoyed it. I was nice seeing Tennant again. It was nice that Captain Jack was mentioned, though it would have been nicer if he was seen and it is a shame Eccleston shuns Doctor Who (though I guess he allowed his image to be used). 

It doesn't really mesh with what we learned from "The End of Time" (which BBC America is currently airing) where the Time Lord High Council was going to destroy the universe anyway which is why the Doctor destroyed (or froze) Gallifrey in the first place. If the goal of the new season is to save Gallifrey, that would make no sense. Gallifrey was "saved" in "End Of Time", but doing so brought back the Time War.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Azlen said:


> Which is the episode they showed on BBC America right after Day of the Doctor.


Yeah, I saw that, it just took until just now to connect the events of the two, and to realize that we never really saw an explanation as to how Gallifrey got time locked in a pocket universe in that episode/movie.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Are we sure that the Hurt Doctor wasn't regenerating into the Hartnell Doctor?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Kamakzie said:


> Are we sure that the Hurt Doctor wasn't regenerating into the Hartnell Doctor?


???

It was Eccelston's face, albeit briefly.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Kamakzie said:


> Are we sure that the Hurt Doctor wasn't regenerating into the Hartnell Doctor?


Yes.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Kamakzie said:


> Are we sure that the Hurt Doctor wasn't regenerating into the Hartnell Doctor?


Yes. We know that McCoy's doctor regenerated into McGann's doctor (in the 1996 movie), and in "The Night of the Doctor" we saw McGann regenerate into Hurt. This gives us an unbroken chain of regenerations going from Hartnell through Hurt... the only reason we didn't actually see the Hurt regeneration complete is because Eccleston declined to appear/wasn't available to appear.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> ???
> 
> It was Eccelston's face, albeit briefly.


Really? I waited for Eccleston's face, and even paused, and didn't see it.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

morac said:


> it is a shame Eccleston shuns Doctor Who (though I guess he allowed his image to be used).


I doubt his permission was needed. The show owns any footage of his image that they had ever shot for the show. They can reuse it however they want.

They don't need his permission, but they will have to pay him something to use it. Probably scale, based on how it's used.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JETarpon said:


> Really? I waited for Eccleston's face, and even paused, and didn't see it.


There was a very brief but distinct flash of it. I even recognized the pose, although I can't tell you where it was from. But it was an iconic image of the Eccleston Doctor.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> There was a very brief but distinct flash of it. I even recognized the pose, although I can't tell you where it was from. But it was an iconic image of the Eccleston Doctor.


I must have blinked at the wrong time. I'll have to look again right now.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Just looked at it again. That is very very brief and isn't much more than the eyes, but it is Eccleston. I suppose that since he didn't want to be involved, they didn't want to pay him any more than absolutely necessary for splashing his face on the screen so we just got a fraction of a second of a part of his face.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Oh Okay I will need to do a slo-mo I guess, I didn't see Eccelston the first time.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Kamakzie said:


> Oh Okay I will need to do a slo-mo I guess, I didn't see Eccelston the first time.


You won't see Eccleston. You might see a hint of Eccleston.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, all they really did was nod to what they had already established...that the Time Lords had survived the war, and were...elsewhere. Now, we just know how they got there, and why the Doctor thought he killed them when clearly he didn't. And clearly they're not frozen from their own perspective, because they're still active, under certain circumstances.


Rewatching "End Of Time", it takes place on the last day of the time war, supposedly before The Moment was used. So it wasn't established at that point that Gallifrey survived the time war elsewhere, since the entire movie (from Gallifrey's time point), takes place before The Moment was activated. Basically around the same time this movie takes place.

Granted now that The Moment never was activated, there really is no difference. As such while it is a recton, it doesn't really change anything. Which was said as much in this movie. It still doesn't indicate how they can "Save Gallifrey" without Rassilon destroying the universe. On a related note, it does give a way to bring back The Master if they want.


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

Is it implied that Capaldi will be the last Doctor?

"All twelve of them..."

"No sir, all thirteen"


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Hopefully this is okay to do, I did a screen cap of the scene.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

Raisltin Majere said:


> Is it implied that Capaldi will be the last Doctor?
> 
> "All twelve of them..."
> 
> "No sir, all thirteen"


Nope. It will be something that they will build a story around but I have no doubt that as long as the show remains successful that there will be more doctors.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Do we renumber them now? Is Eccleston 10, Tennant 11, and Smith 12?


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Kamakzie said:


> Hopefully this is okay to do, I did a screen cap of the scene.


A hint of Eccleston. Not Eccleston.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

JETarpon said:


> A hint of Eccleston. Not Eccleston.


Right, probably would've shown Eccelston more predominately had he not had bad blood with the show.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

I heard one rumor that in the end, Eccleston relented and said that he would have been willing to appear, but that the shooting schedule was locked in and he wasn't available. Might just be spin control, though.


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## pteronaut (Dec 26, 2009)

Did anyone else get the jibe at Eccleston during Hurt's regeneration?

"Wearing a bit thin, I hope the ears are bit less conspicuous this time."


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## Bettamojo5 (Apr 12, 2004)

pteronaut said:


> Did anyone else get the jibe at Eccleston during Hurt's regeneration?
> 
> "Wearing a bit thin, I hope the ears are bit less conspicuous this time."


Wow good catch! I had to go back and rewatch. I thought he said "I hope the years are a bit less conspicuous this time." Meaning he hoped to regenerate as a younger version of The Doctor.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

I don't think the "wearing a bit thin" part was connected to the ears statement though. 

I think it was a followup to his "well, of course" reaction to his regeneration kicking in; that his body was "wearing a bit thin", making the regen necessary.


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## USAFSSO (Aug 24, 2005)

I thought it was great. 

I never was a big fan of Rose. But this Rose/Bad Wolf had that great deep throaty thing going that was kind of nice.

I always find it odd when actors sign on to this kind of thing and then don't want anything to do with it after their tenure. Eccleston knew the history of the show and that once you sign on you are a part of it. You don't have to do all the interviews, but with a big thing like this, he could have at least been there for the regeneration part.


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

What's the story with Ecclestone? I heard he stopped because he didn't want to be typecast, didn't know about any bad blood


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

I wish they would have been a little more forward thinking when Eccleston was around and filmed a regeneration to him thinking it may be something they want to use somewhere down the road.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Raisltin Majere said:


> What's the story with Ecclestone? I heard he stopped because he didn't want to be typecast, didn't know about any bad blood


I've seen interviews of him saying he enjoyed playing the role, but that at the end of the day, it was just that, another role. In the interview he said he had moved on, so it wasn't really bad blood as more he treated it as any other acting role that he finished with.

His latest role is the big baddy in the latest Thor movie, so apparently he's not afraid of getting typecast for Scifi.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Raisltin Majere said:


> What's the story with Ecclestone? I heard he stopped because he didn't want to be typecast, didn't know about any bad blood


The bit about "not wanting to be typecast" was from a press statement issued by the BBC, but they had to retract it and admit they made it up without actually talking to Eccleston. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4410943.stm)

The gist that I've heard is that there was very poor relations between Chris Eccleston and Russel T Davies/Julie Gardner, which culminated at the point that they wanted to rush him to make a decision to return/not return, and then went and started looking for his replacement before he had even made his decision. When it reached that point, it was clear to him that he was no longer welcome and walked.


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## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

FYI,

Today the BBC also aired a 75 minute special written and directed by Peter Davison. It's about 30 minutes long. It available via magical means.

'*The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot*'

http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...rs-reboot-doctor-who-20131123,0,4796566.story


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Bettamojo5 said:


> Wow good catch! I had to go back and rewatch. I thought he said "I hope the years are a bit less conspicuous this time." Meaning he hoped to regenerate as a younger version of The Doctor.


That was what I thought too. I also rewatched Night of the Doctor when McGann regenerated into Hurt. They showed Hurt only in reflection, and he looked much younger. I think he's supposed to have been fighting in that body for a long time.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

I enjoyed the episode, but I think I had been hoping for more cameos and Easter eggs, so I also felt a little let down. In my mind's eye I had envisioned a sprawling story that contrived to bring as many surviving cast members as possible together. This felt more like a normal episode than I was expecting. A very good normal episode, though.

I did notice that Clara's school, at the beginning, was on Totter's Lane - http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/76_Totter's_Lane

And the sciency-girl's scarf was a not-subtle nod, as well. What other tips of the hat to the past were there?

One bit I couldn't wrap my head around, story-wise: could someone explain Baker's Doctor as the curator? Baker's Doctor died saving the universe from the Master, and regenerated into the 5th. So how is a much older 4th still around in the present day?


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Personally I believe the whole Hurt role should have been Eccleston and was perhaps intended to be.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

danterner said:


> I enjoyed the episode, but I think I had been hoping for more cameos and Easter eggs, so I also felt a little let down. In my mind's eye I had envisioned a sprawling story that contrived to bring as many surviving cast members as possible together. This felt more like a normal episode than I was expecting. A very good normal episode, though.
> 
> I did notice that Clara's school, at the beginning, was on Totter's Lane - http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/76_Totter's_Lane
> 
> ...


I thought Baker said something about in future regenerations he likes to have a nod to some of his favorite previous incarnations.

And I missed Capaldi. Where was he?


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

JohnB1000 said:


> Personally I believe the whole Hurt role should have been Eccleston and was perhaps intended to be.


 I could believe that. I just watched "Rose" again, though, and Eccleston was clearly new to his body in that episode - there's a scene where he sees himself in a mirror for the first time and remarks about his ears, etc.

Re: Capaldi - there was a quick extreme close up (mostly just his eyes) as the doctors all converged on Gallifrey in their Tardii - just as the comment about there being 13 rather than 12 was being made.


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

Kamakzie said:


> Hopefully this is okay to do, I did a screen cap of the scene.


Thank you! I was specifically watching for it (I read the thread first) and didn't even see it. But I definitely see it in the screencap.



danterner said:


> One bit I couldn't wrap my head around, story-wise: could someone explain Baker's Doctor as the curator? Baker's Doctor died saving the universe from the Master, and regenerated into the 5th. So how is a much older 4th still around in the present day?


Oh good. Glad it wasn't just me.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Philosofy said:


> I thought Baker said something about in future regenerations he likes to have a nod to some of his favorite previous incarnations.
> 
> And I missed Capaldi. Where was he?


I forget the exact line, but when all the Doctors were on the screen at the Timelord Council, they said something about them, "...all twelve." Matt Smith then said, "Thirteen," and it cut to this:










Peter Capaldi.

Greg


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

JohnB1000 said:


> Personally I believe the whole Hurt role should have been Eccleston and was perhaps intended to be.


I think it was very clearly *not* intended to be Eccleston in any way. Now, I could be convinced that there was potential for Eccleston to also be there along with Tennant and Smith, but I don't see that there is any way that the Hurt role was written for or ever planned to be played by Eccleston.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Loved the scarf on the museum tech, but didn't expect Baker to show up like he did. 
I guess once you regenerate your old self then just gets old.
And having Lethbridge-Stewart's daughter in charge of UNIT was a nice touch.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

danterner said:


> One bit I couldn't wrap my head around, story-wise: could someone explain Baker's Doctor as the curator? Baker's Doctor died saving the universe from the Master, and regenerated into the 5th. So how is a much older 4th still around in the present day?


"I could be a curator. I'd be GREAT at curating. I'd be 'The Great Curator.' I could retire and be the curator of this place."
"You know, I really think you might."
"I never forget a face."
"I know you don't. In the years to come, you might find yourself revisiting a few, but just the old favorites, eh?"

The dialog suggests that at some point, the Doctor somehow takes on the ability to "revisit" some of his favorite appearances.


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## jeremy3721 (Feb 16, 2002)

I'm just happy that Peter Davison, Colin Baker and Sylvestor McCoy were included and actually got to film new material


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## BluesFools (Apr 5, 2000)

Malcontent said:


> Today the BBC also aired a *75 minute* special written and directed by Peter Davison. *It's about 30 minutes long.* It available via magical means.


Whoa, that's what I call timey-wimey.

Thanks for the link, that was pretty entertaining. You don't need magical means to see it - it's on the BBC's website here and is actually watchable outside the UK.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

My favorite line: (Paraphrasing from memory) "The interface is hot!" Billie Piper: "I do my best."


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

TonyTheTiger said:


> That final shot of all the Doctors (minus Capaldi) was awesome. I'd love to get that as a poster.


For the repeat airing BBC America was nice enough to remove all the screen bugs for that scene, so I snapped it via the TiVo iOS app. It loses some details that way though.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

JimSpence said:


> And having Lethbridge-Stewart's daughter in charge of UNIT was a nice touch.


That was established in a previous episode.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

Raisltin Majere said:


> Is it implied that Capaldi will be the last Doctor?
> 
> "All twelve of them..."
> 
> "No sir, all thirteen"


I think that just meant that there were thirteen Doctors there instead of the twelve they thought there were at first, not that those were all the Doctor's incarnations.

Excellent episode.

My only gripe with it is that they could have handled the memories of the previous Doctors better. Rather than chalking up the lost memories to the "time streams being out of sync", I was hoping they would realize the paradox they had created (or would create if they thought of it before the rest of their plan), and then be forced to deal with it.

The John Hurt Doctor noted how much good his future incarnations had done because of the regret they had had due to having destroyed Gallifrey. That, combined with not wanting to erase his future selves from history, and them wanting to continue living themselves, would cause them to decide to alter their memories so they would think they had destroyed Gallifrey.

The memory devices connected to the time bomb, modified to put a time lock on their memories, would have been the perfect vehicle for this. And then the John Hurt Doctor would end up activating the bomb, only it would be locking out his true memories and implanting false ones instead, not just for him, but for all incarnations prior to Matt Smith.

I think it would have been great to see that instead of the Doctor sacrificing all the lives of his own people, he sacrificed a part of his own, giving himself 400 years of regret for the good of his people and others he would later encounter.

In the end that's what ended up happening anyway, but I think it would have been better had it been the Doctor's conscious decision to do it rather than a byproduct of some time anomaly.

They had all the pieces to do that in this episode. They had the memory devices, the bomb's ability to access the Doctor's mind thoughout time, and Hurt's recognition of the good his future selves had done and would do. I thought surely that's where everything was leading. That rather than Hurt being the one to destroy the Doctor's legacy, he would be the one sacrificing himself for them, giving up his own reputation even amongst his own other incarnations.

But they ended up just saving the day, and having everything magically reset back to normal.

Like I said earlier, however, I still thought it was an excellent episode. The only reason I'm disappointed about how things were handled in this specific case is because I think they missed an opportunity to make it even better, to keep the significance of the activation of the bomb, but for a different reason than it had been in the past.


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## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

I noticed at the end that, with the exception of the three stars of the episode, and William Hartnell by himself in back, all the odd-numbered Doctors were lined up on one side and all the even-numbered Doctors on the other.

It probably means nothing.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I almost jumped of the couch when the GOAT Doctor, Tom Baker appeared.

I had a crush on Billie Piper for the first couple of years of the DW reboot but thought she Piper looked kind of mannish in this special. Jenna Coleman is really, really pretty. 

The final lineup of the Doctors was great.

BBC America kept it's channel bugs to a minimum.

This special and the William Hartnell movie made this a great Doctor Who movie.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

I'm wondering if we'll see more Zygons, they kind of walked away from that plot line. 

And I'm curious if there is a story to Osgood's scarf.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

kaszeta said:


> I'm wondering if we'll see more Zygons, they kind of walked away from that plot line.
> 
> And I'm curious if there is a story to Osgood's scarf.


They just let Zygons be Zygons.


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## ThePennyDropped (Jul 5, 2006)

BluesFools said:


> Whoa, that's what I call timey-wimey.
> 
> Thanks for the link, that was pretty entertaining. You don't need magical means to see it - it's on the BBC's website here and is actually watchable outside the UK.


Holy cow, that was absolutely amazing! I enjoyed that more than the 50th anniversary special itself. I bet someone who is really knowledgeable about old Doctor Who would recognize the cast more than I did. I thought I was doing well recognizing cast and crew, but when I got to the closing credits and saw the full cast list, I realized I'd missed so many. Really, that was a true gem.


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## ThePennyDropped (Jul 5, 2006)

Azlen said:


> They just let Zygons be Zygons.


Well played!


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

JohnB1000 said:


> Personally I believe the whole Hurt role should have been Eccleston and was perhaps intended to be.


In the very first episode of the reboot, it was strongly implied that Eccelston was very recently regenerated (seeing himself in the mirror for the first time in that episode).

The general understanding (although never confirmed explicitly) from early on was that McCann fought the Time War and regenerated into Eccleston near the end or soon afterwards. Only recently have we come to know that it was Hurt who fought the war and regenerated into Eccleston.

So if the Hurt role was ever intended to be one of the already existing doctors instead, it would have been McCann, not Eccleston.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

The one thing that I found problematic was when the three Doctors all put their hands on top of each other on top of the Big Red Button. There should have been a huge spark and bang and they should have gone flying.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

It was a little disappointing to me that this episode had both Tennant and Billie Piper, but they didn't interact and 10 never saw the Moment's interface.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

BluesFools said:


> Thanks for the link, that was pretty entertaining. You don't need magical means to see it - it's on the BBC's website here and is actually watchable outside the UK.


^^^^ That link is pretty small, so wanted to point it out for those of you that may have missed it the first time around.

That was GREAT!!! Make sure to watch to the very end.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

danterner said:


> I enjoyed the episode, but I think I had been hoping for more cameos and Easter eggs, so I also felt a little let down. In my mind's eye I had envisioned a sprawling story that contrived to bring as many surviving cast members as possible together. This felt more like a normal episode than I was expecting. A very good normal episode, though.
> 
> I did notice that Clara's school, at the beginning, was on Totter's Lane - http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/76_Totter's_Lane
> 
> ...


Clara's school, other than being on Totter's Lane is the same Coal Hill School where Barbara and Ian (the first companions, besides the Doctor's grand daughter) taught.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Shakhari said:


> I noticed at the end that, with the exception of the three stars of the episode, and William Hartnell by himself in back, all the odd-numbered Doctors were lined up on one side and all the even-numbered Doctors on the other.
> 
> It probably means nothing.


The sad thing is, as great as the pic is, it's already outdated.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

busyba said:


> The one thing that I found problematic was when the three Doctors all put their hands on top of each other on top of the Big Red Button. There should have been a huge spark and bang and they should have gone flying.


In Classic Who, did they ever show three Tardises that close together before?


----------



## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

danterner said:


> It was a little disappointing to me that this episode had both Tennant and Billie Piper, but they didn't interact and 10 never saw the Moment's interface.


agreed....hope we see more of her in future seasons....


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## BluesFools (Apr 5, 2000)

danterner said:


> What other tips of the hat to the past were there?


The first shot of "An Unearthly Child" is a policeman with the Foreman's scrap yard sign, same as this episode. According to the school sign, the Chairman of the Governors is "I. Chesterton" - Ian from the first series. Also the headmaster is W Coburn, probably a reference to Anthony Coburn who wrote An Unearthly Child and invented the police box as the Tardis shape.

Later Tennant's line "Oh, you've redecorated. I don't like it" has been used several times before: twice by Troughton, once by Smith.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

BluesFools said:


> The first shot of "An Unearthly Child" is a policeman with the Foreman's scrap yard sign, same as this episode. According to the school sign, the Chairman of the Governors is "I. Chesterton" - Ian from the first series. Also the headmaster is W Coburn, probably a reference to Anthony Coburn who wrote An Unearthly Child and invented the police box as the Tardis shape. Later Tennant's line "Oh, you've redecorated. I don't like it" has been used several times before: twice by Troughton, once by Smith.


Thanks! That's exactly the type of thing I was looking for.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Here's another one: the code that 11 carved on the wall and that Clara entered into the time vortex manipulator thing (17-16-23-11-63) is the day and time that the first episode of Doctor Who aired (5:16PM, November 23, 1963).

The clock at Clara's school at the beginning also showed 5:16.


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## Linnemir (Apr 7, 2009)

Shakhari said:


> I noticed at the end that, with the exception of the three stars of the episode, and William Hartnell by himself in back, all the odd-numbered Doctors were lined up on one side and all the even-numbered Doctors on the other.
> 
> It probably means nothing.


I LOVE that picture! It would make such a GREAT wallpaper! Does anyone have a link or something for it?


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Quick question: my memory is a bit fuzzy. I thought after the last regular Clara episode, she went into the time stream to save the Doctor. How did she get back? And also, there was the last scene with John Hurt. How did that tie in?


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Linnemir said:


> I LOVE that picture! It would make such a GREAT wallpaper! Does anyone have a link or something for it?


Further up this page


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## secondclaw (Oct 3, 2004)

It looked to me that Clara didn't recognize David Tennant's Doctor ... but wasn't she in every Doctor's time-stream and should therefore know him? Or does she no longer remember doing that?

It was a pretty good episode - like others I wish Eccleston was there - as he's my favorite Doctor of the reboot. The rapport between Tennant and Smith, showing off screwdrivers, etc., was great, and Hurt really shined.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Philosofy said:


> Quick question: my memory is a bit fuzzy. I thought after the last regular Clara episode, she went into the time stream to save the Doctor. How did she get back? And also, there was the last scene with John Hurt. How did that tie in?


The Doctor went into the time stream to save her. She was on the floor of the cave with the incarnations of the Doctor running around her. The Doctor made "her leaf" appear to her to remind her who she was and to be her link home. He then appeared and she went to him. While he was hugging her, they saw Hurt-Doctor. Clara passed out. The Doctor picked her up. Talked to Hurt and turned away. Camera on Hurt as he turns to camera. INTRODUCING JOHN HURT AS THE DOCTOR. Fade.


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## cstelter (Mar 18, 2002)

morac said:


> Rewatching "End Of Time", it takes place on the last day of the time war, supposedly before The Moment was used. So it wasn't established at that point that Gallifrey survived the time war elsewhere, since the entire movie (from Gallifrey's time point), takes place before The Moment was activated. Basically around the same time this movie takes place.
> 
> Granted now that The Moment never was activated, there really is no difference. As such while it is a recton, it doesn't really change anything. Which was said as much in this movie. It still doesn't indicate how they can "Save Gallifrey" without Rassilon destroying the universe. On a related note, it does give a way to bring back The Master if they want.


In the first scene in the 'War Room' where they see the Doctor's 'No More' message, it begins with the dialog "The High Council is in Emergency Session, They have plans of their own." That was likely a reference to the scene in End of Time Part 2 where Dalton demands of the high council if this is that day that Gallifrey falls or the day Gallifrey rises, and then the vote to head off to Earth. So I think you're right on with your analysis.

The Doctor mentions in that episode that the entire time war was time locked and nothing could get in or out... Who knows how that happened. I but I imagine that is to stop the questinos of 'why don't you just take your tardis back to Gallifrey at the time of the Time war-- it is a time machine right?'.

When Tennant arrives at the moment device along with Smith, he comments that 'These events should be time locked, we shouldn't even be here' to which Smith says 'So something let us through' to which the moment interface says 'You Clever boys'. Now the moment is 'the Galaxy Eater' which was the final work of the Ancients of Gallifrey. A weapon so powerful that the OS became sentient (how that helps show the power of the weapon is a bit fuzzy to me). Which according to legend, developed a conscience. They refused to use it becuase it might stand in judgement of them.

It appears to me that this sentient OS must have been responsible for letting all the doctors into the time lock in order to preserve Gallifrey. So perhaps the OS and its interface is now there to prevent the moment from *ever* being used. Thus it is not so much a retcon, but how it happened all along-- but conveniently hidden from the memories of Hurt/Eccleson/Tennant/(and all the others but Capaldi I suppose) with the time wimey wave of the 'streams out of sync' bit. In fact they didn't even seem to know if they had or hadn't succeded and they never explained how they all wound up at that gallery viewing the painting anyway. Convenient...

So I agree, it would seem that all the High council were saved in the moment along with Gallifrey. So should he find Gallifrey, there will be some fallout no doubt.


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## cstelter (Mar 18, 2002)

ThePennyDropped said:


> Holy cow, that was absolutely amazing! I enjoyed that more than the 50th anniversary special itself. I bet someone who is really knowledgeable about old Doctor Who would recognize the cast more than I did. I thought I was doing well recognizing cast and crew, but when I got to the closing credits and saw the full cast list, I realized I'd missed so many. Really, that was a true gem.


If you've watched 'The Five Doctors' they reused the exact same footage of Tom Baker from that episode in the reboot. I laughed out loud. IIRC, it was footage from an episode that was either cut from the episode or that the episode was never completed. Anyway I appreciate the 'ish' in the title of the show.

My son kept saying that Georgia Moffet was going to turn up again in an episode of Doctor who....

I agree, this was a nice treat.


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## BluesFools (Apr 5, 2000)

cstelter said:


> If you've watched 'The Five Doctors' they reused the exact same footage of Tom Baker from that episode in the reboot. I laughed out loud. IIRC, it was footage from an episode that was either cut from the episode or that the episode was never completed. Anyway I appreciate the 'ish' in the title of the show.


Shada.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

cstelter said:


> When Tennant arrives at the moment device along with Smith, he comments that 'These events should be time locked, we shouldn't even be here' to which Smith says 'So something let us through' to which the moment interface says 'You Clever boys'.
> 
> It appears to me that this sentient OS must have been responsible for letting all the doctors into the time lock in order to preserve Gallifrey. So perhaps the OS and its interface is now there to prevent the moment from *ever* being used.


I took that to mean that it was Clara's interference in the Doctor's timeline via the interface that allowed them in. Just as she directed the original Doctor to that particular TARDIS, etc. "You clever boy" is Clara's calling card.


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## cstelter (Mar 18, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> I took that to mean that it was Clara's interference in the Doctor's timeline via the interface that allowed them in. Just as she directed the original Doctor to that particular TARDIS, etc. "You clever boy" is Clara's calling card.


That could be-- it certainly is Clara's way of saying it, though I'm not following what you mean by her 'interference ... via the interface'.

My take is the interface chose Rose Tylor from the Doctor's 'past' (or was it future-- always gets those mxed up). The interface chose the 'Bad Wolf' version of her to boot, which implies a rather complete knowledge of his memories past and future. So the interface would be able to borrow a phrase from Clara's book or any other companion too I should imagine. In fact the whole confusing past from the future was borrowed from the 'Doctor's Wife' wasn't it almost as though the interface OS was the same as the Tardis OS...??

Clara's interference has always been her split personality-- living lives to aid the Doctor. Here she interfered by her talking to Hurt and then convincing Smith that he was doing the wrong thing simply by giving him a 'look'. Just a bit unclear on how she interferes via the interface...

An annoying part of this episode is the apparent jumps. Hurt just disappears from the archive, yet needed the fez-bridge to get there in the first place. There's a whole scene missing it would seem where the other two doctors either abandon or complete their zygon negotiations, hop in their tardis (Tardi??) and wind up in the time lock. Smith back to his tardis in the tower, and Tennant back to his.. where, in the painting in the last day of Gallifrey? And then after that scene poof, all 3 tardis lined up in the museum or wherever they were with the painting.


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## cstelter (Mar 18, 2002)

Just realized how timey wimey the fez in this episode is. It was never made-- it only was. The Doctor found it in the future, threw it to Tennant, then threw it to Hurt, who carried it back. Presumaby Queen Elizabeth I preserved it with the gallery on display until the Doctor found it. So where did it come from....


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Was it previously established that Tennant's Doctor was married to Queen Elizabeth I? I vaguely remember him stating that they had a fling or was that with another queen?


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

I haven't studied every post so perhaps this was already said but in listening to a podcast today I realize they completely dropped the Zygon story. It could be argued that it was resolved I guess but there was the short term memory thing and scarf girl with the inhaler and the wink but we never returned to it.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

cheesesteak said:


> Was it previously established that Tennant's Doctor was married to Queen Elizabeth I? I vaguely remember him stating that they had a fling or was that with another queen?


There's this:






Listen to what Tennant tells the Ood at the end of the clip.


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

I still can't get over the back and forth between 10 and 11 in this. Particularly quotable:

(each holding up their sonic screwdrivers, extended) "Compensating?" "For what?" "Eh, regeneration, it's a lottery."

"One of those was a Zygon?" "Yeah." "Big red rubbery thing covered with suckers?" "Yeah." "Venom sacs in the tongue?" "Yeah, I'm getting the point, thank you."

"I'm reversing the polarity, you're reversing it back again. We're confusing the polarity."

"That is not the queen of England, that is an alien duplicate!" "And you can take it from him, he's checked." "Oh, shut up." "Venom sacs in the tongue." "Seriously, stop it."


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

LoadStar said:


> I still can't get over the back and forth between 10 and 11 in this. Particularly quotable:
> 
> (each holding up their sonic screwdrivers, extended) "Compensating?" "For what?" "Eh, regeneration, it's a lottery."
> 
> ...


Sitting down on the chairs and putting their feet up on the table during the negotiation scene, putting on their glasses while in the forest, and more: I loved this episode for the fun they seemed to be having with each other.

Did you watch the Graham Norton special featuring Tennant and Smith? They seemed to get along pretty famously in that, as well. It was fun to watch.


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

I now want a whole season of Smith with Tennant. :/


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

sushikitten said:


> I now want a whole season of Smith with Tennant. :/


So do they, although I'm not sure how serious they were being when they proposed it...

But obviously the show is moving on, so it's not happening anyway.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

LoadStar said:


> I still can't get over the back and forth between 10 and 11 in this.


I loved them trying to figure out whose fault it was that 11 didn't remember these events.

10: How could you not remember this?

11: Maybe you should be paying better attention.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

BitbyBlit said:


> I loved them trying to figure out whose fault it was that 11 didn't remember these events.
> 
> 10: How could you not remember this?
> 
> 11: Maybe you should be paying better attention.


I didn't pick up on that. Clever! :up:


----------



## Mars Rocket (Mar 24, 2000)

secondclaw said:


> It looked to me that Clara didn't recognize David Tennant's Doctor ... but wasn't she in every Doctor's time-stream and should therefore know him? Or does she no longer remember doing that?





> Clara: "If I step in there, what happens?"
> 
> River: "The time winds will tear you into a million pieces. A million versions of you. Living and dying all over time and space, like echoes."
> 
> ...


But then the Doctor saves her from his timestream, but whichever Clara he saved wouldn't know what all the others had seen and done.


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

danterner said:


> What other tips of the hat to the past were there?


I liked it when all three Doctors entered the Tardis and the interior changed. "Oh, the circle things!" I always loved those original Tardis walls (which of course is because Baker is my first Doctor).



LoadStar said:


> I still can't get over the back and forth between 10 and 11 in this.


And this continued when 10 and 11 met up with 8.5:
"Why are you pointing the screwdrivers like that? It's a scientific instrument not a water pistol!"

Also, the whole "start the calculation routine in 8.5's screwdriver so it's completed 400 years later in 11's screwdriver" had a distinct "Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure" vibe to it.


----------



## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> So do they, although I'm not sure how serious they were being when they proposed it...
> 
> But obviously the show is moving on, so it's not happening anyway.


One thought I had after watching this episode is that with actors who are still alive, they potentially could do specials featuring them - with time travel, they could set it at any point in a given Doctor's timeline.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

windracer said:


> Also, the whole "start the calculation routine in 8.5's screwdriver so it's completed 400 years later in 11's screwdriver" had a distinct "Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure" vibe to it.


The would have bugged me, since the thing has been destroyed and discarded at least twice in the intervening time. (Yes, you can play "but the software was transferred" games).

But since the door wasn't actually locked, it didn't bother me at all...


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Buzzfeed's list of Easter Eggs from the episode. Most of them are somewhat obvious, but there are a few cool ones in there I didn't notice or was unaware of:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/paulaersly/greatest-easter-eggs-from-the-doctor-who-50th-anniver


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

kdmorse said:


> The would have bugged me, since the thing has been destroyed and discarded at least twice in the intervening time. (Yes, you can play "but the software was transferred" games).


Yeah, I remember at least three times in the new Who with destroyed sonic screwdrivers. (And I'm trying to recall the events of The Big Bang: did the Sonic Screwdriver go with Rory, and thus, like Marvin the Android is substantially older than the Doctor?)

Oh well, worse has happened.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

kaszeta said:


> Yeah, I remember at least three times in the new Who with destroyed sonic screwdrivers. (And I'm trying to recall the events of The Big Bang: did the Sonic Screwdriver go with Rory, and thus, like Marvin the Android is substantially older than the Doctor?)
> 
> Oh well, worse has happened.


But the software was backed up to the cloud...


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Philosofy said:


> But the software was backed up to the cloud...


iSonic


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

So Smith is #13, it seems

I don't think this contains spoilers

http://www.bbcamerica.com/anglophenia/2013/11/steven-moffat-adds-twists-regeneration-riddle/


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## Gerryex (Apr 24, 2004)

Malcontent said:


> FYI,
> 
> Today the BBC also aired a 75 minute special written and directed by Peter Davison. It's about 30 minutes long. It available via magical means.
> 
> ...


This was ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS!!! I haven't laughed so much in a long time. I love it when a long running franchise can make fun of itself. Of course it would have been great if some of them were actually in the 50th anniversary episode but this was at least a decent door prize!!!

Gerry


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## cstelter (Mar 18, 2002)

Raisltin Majere said:


> So Smith is #13, it seems
> 
> I don't think this contains spoilers
> 
> http://www.bbcamerica.com/anglophenia/2013/11/steven-moffat-adds-twists-regeneration-riddle/


I talk about the 'let's kill hitler' ep here in conjunction with the above article.


Spoiler



This makes sense-- I had theorized about this in another thread. When River killed him in 'Let's Killl Hitler' he's dying and and asks the tardis interface (Amelia Pond) about his prognosis. Her answer is "you will be dead in 31 minutes (or whatever, I'm going off memory). He says "welll I'll just regenerate" and she replies "regeneration disabled". That's it, he doesn't question it.

So I'm kind of guessing that the Christmas episode will be all about finding Gallifrey and being rewarded by the timelords with another 12 regenerations ala their reward to the Master back in the 5 Doctors.


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## cstelter (Mar 18, 2002)

Gerryex said:


> This was ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS!!! I haven't laughed so much in a long time. I love it when a long running franchise can make fun of itself. Of course it would have been great if some of them were actually in the 50th anniversary episode but this was at least a decent door prize!!!
> 
> Gerry


You're certain they weren't under the statue covers . Perhaps they were in it after all... heh...


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## Gerryex (Apr 24, 2004)

cstelter said:


> You're certain they weren't under the statue covers . Perhaps they were in it after all... heh...


MAYBE!!!!!


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

kdmorse said:


> The would have bugged me, since the thing has been destroyed and discarded at least twice in the intervening time. (Yes, you can play "but the software was transferred" games).
> 
> But since the door wasn't actually locked, it didn't bother me at all...


Well, they played the identical trick to perform the computations required to freeze Gallifrey, so _that_ might bother you .


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## Agatha Mystery (Feb 12, 2002)

I want to know what "sand shoes" are. They kept making fun of David's tennis shoes (i.e. Chuck Taylors), referring to them as sand shoes. I figured that was a slang terminology that was used in the UK. Any idea?


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Agatha Mystery said:


> I want to know what "sand shoes" are. They kept making fun of David's tennis shoes (i.e. Chuck Taylors), referring to them as sand shoes. I figured that was a slang terminology that was used in the UK. Any idea?


Yes, as best as I can tell, "sand shoes" is a slang for canvas shoes like Chuck Taylors et. al.. They are also known as plimsoll shoes, and the wikipedia article has already been updated to reflect the references in the movie.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

It's actually a rather old terminology that was used a long time ago and not so much now, although it is still used now sometimes and is perhaps making a comeback


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

madscientist said:


> Well, they played the identical trick to perform the computations required to freeze Gallifrey, so that might bother you .


Talking about identical tricks, removing Gallifrey so that the Daleks are left firing inward at each other is kind of the same thing that was done in Blink, where the Tardis dematerializes once surrounded by inward-facing Weeping Angels who get caught in their own staring contest.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

kdmorse said:


> But since the door wasn't actually locked, it didn't bother me at all...


But that laid the foundation for the hundreds of years of calculations for transporting Gallifrey. That was the whole point of the scene with the door.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Just came back from the 3D theatrical version. Played very well as a big screen movie. Also, some great pre-movie things like a Sontaran lecture on theater etiquette and Smith and Tennant introducing 3D. Then a making if feature the after the movie.


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## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

TonyD79 said:


> Just came back from the 3D theatrical version. Played very well as a big screen movie. Also, some great pre-movie things like a Sontaran lecture on theater etiquette and Smith and Tennant introducing 3D. Then a making if feature the after the movie.


I saw it tonight too. That intro was awesome. Also the audience reaction to different parts made it all the better (such as the 13th doctor glimpse).

The mini documentary after was great too.


----------



## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

I saw it in 3D tonight, too.

So for the rest of you, how was the crowd? I was trying to figure out in advance if it would be an interactive crowd (cheers, applause, etc.) or would it be a reverent crowd. It turns out it was much much quieter than I expected it to be. Laughter where appropriate, and applause at the end, but that was about it.

We went to the 7:30 3D show, which was sold out. There was also a 2D show (also sold out), and 10:00 shows for both (not sold out when we got there). We got there at 6:15 expecting a line to get in the theater, but it was open and only about 5 people there. I got dead center, 2nd row of the upper section. People were still walking in right at 7:30. The crowd was mostly older. A couple teenagers but mostly 20+. When we left, the people waiting for the 10:00 shows included a lot more kids than I saw in our show. I don't know if there were more in the 2D show.

I loved it, even though I'd already watched it twice.


----------



## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

--Carlos V.


----------



## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

From reddit:


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

Agatha Mystery said:


> I want to know what "sand shoes" are. They kept making fun of David's tennis shoes (i.e. Chuck Taylors), referring to them as sand shoes. I figured that was a slang terminology that was used in the UK. Any idea?


By calling them sand shoes he was being deliberately mean but it is not a phrase in wide spread use. At a pinch I would call them deck shoes.

There was a deleted scene involving the shoes >
http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsideth...ed-scene-its-all-about-the-shoes---watch.html

And continuing the theme River Song's superb red shoes were in the Black Archive.

My big dissapointment was that Susan the Doctor's granddaughter from the first episode did not make a live appearance .


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

JETarpon said:


> I saw it in 3D tonight, too. So for the rest of you, how was the crowd? I was trying to figure out in advance if it would be an interactive crowd (cheers, applause, etc.) or would it be a reverent crowd. It turns out it was much much quieter than I expected it to be. Laughter where appropriate, and applause at the end, but that was about it. We went to the 7:30 3D show, which was sold out. There was also a 2D show (also sold out), and 10:00 shows for both (not sold out when we got there). We got there at 6:15 expecting a line to get in the theater, but it was open and only about 5 people there. I got dead center, 2nd row of the upper section. People were still walking in right at 7:30. The crowd was mostly older. A couple teenagers but mostly 20+. When we left, the people waiting for the 10:00 shows included a lot more kids than I saw in our show. I don't know if there were more in the 2D show. I loved it, even though I'd already watched it twice.


Two 3D shows at 7:30 where I went. Long lines and sold out. A few costumes. A few fezzes. Lots of tardis hats and shirts. My crowd whooped a few times and was a bit chatty but not over the top.

I was surprised how many seems to not have seen it already.

The theater turned the doors into tardis doors so it took a while to get in with everyone wanting to take pictures.


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## cstelter (Mar 18, 2002)

I went last night as well to the 7:30 showing (3d). Our theater had only 2 showings (7:30 and 10). We were told half the seats were sold at around 3pm , so we showed up at 7pm. There wer maybe 20 folks there when we arrived. By 7:30 it really didn't feel even half sold out. The crowd was younger I thought, perhaps just because I'm old... I think I saw more Tom Baker scarves than any other costume. One had a pretty good Moment Interface (Bad Wolf) costume. There were laughs where appropriate and a few awwws when Tennent didn't want to go. I wasn't expecting the rousing applause at the end. I believe everyone stayed for the documentary featurette narrated by Collin Baker at the end which I enjoyed.

I didn't think the 3d added a whole lot but having seen it 2+ times at home (on a not too shabby 65" HD screen), I appreciated being able to see the 3d version.

Oh, and our 3d glasses looked a lot like Tennent's. I thought it would have been great (brilliant?) had they had 2 types--- An Matt smith version and a Tennant version. I think they missed out on a great opportunity there.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

Mars Rocket said:


> But then the Doctor saves her from his timestream, but whichever Clara he saved wouldn't know what all the others had seen and done.


Well, we know she at least saw the John Hurt Doctor inside the timestream, and presumably she saw others as well. Who knows whether that came from her alter egos or her own perception, but when she busted into the cell with the 3 Doctors, 11 said, "You've seen them before," and she nodded.

Of course, it will be interesting to find out if she has seen any of the future incarnations of the Doctor.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

This article contains both some facts and some rumors (speculations?) about the regeneration limit.

http://www.blastr.com/2013-11-25/co...es-all-those-who-regeneration-limit-questions

Bear in mind when you get to the bits from the Daily Mail that the Daily Mail has wild speculation around this time every season, presented as fact, almost none of which ever turns out to be true.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Unbeliever said:


> --Carlos V.


Makes me think of this....


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

I forgot. They had 2 10 pm shows, too. They had to add the second theaters at my place. 

And, of course, there was a Zygon infestation at the theater. The person sitting next to me was a Zygon.


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## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

JETarpon said:


> I saw it in 3D tonight, too.
> 
> So for the rest of you, how was the crowd? I was trying to figure out in advance if it would be an interactive crowd (cheers, applause, etc.) or would it be a reverent crowd. It turns out it was much much quieter than I expected it to be. Laughter where appropriate, and applause at the end, but that was about it.


The audience in the theatre I went to was interactive, but in a good way. Clapping for the fez... or other moments that were nods to the past. It made it a bit more fun.

There were lots of fez hats and some people dressed in one of the doctor's coats or the fake shirts.


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## lambertman (Dec 21, 2002)

Pretty boisterous crowd at my theater for the 7:30 show. A few costumes, lots of cheering for Tennant and Piper's name in the credits, loud laughter before certain lines had even been finished, and the place went nuts for Tom Baker (and for Hartnell and Capaldi.). Watching it at home first on Saturday was a blessing - I was able to enjoy the scene for what it was without getting annoyed that I'd missed stuff. Looked like a bigger crowd was waiting for one of the two 10:00 shows.

Also, the crowd cheered for Colin Baker and Paul McGann during the making-of, which was nice. Also: Joanna Page seems to be terribly annoying IRL.


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## secondclaw (Oct 3, 2004)

Record US ratings for the anniversary special:
http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/11/25/doctor-who-ratings-day/


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

busyba said:


> Makes me think of this.... YouTube Link: Doctor...


Ha! I was going to post the exact same clip.


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## timr_42 (Oct 14, 2001)

I watched it last night for the first time in 3D. It's on my tivo, but I tried to stay away from spoilers so I could see it at the theater first.

I have a question that I can't figure out. At the end, when all the doctors were working the problem and all were involved, how did Hartnell thru McGann know about this? Maybe something was said, but there were a lot of clapping when they started showing the other doctors and I may have missed it.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

timr_42 said:


> I have a question that I can't figure out. At the end, when all the doctors were working the problem and all were involved, how did Hartnell thru McGann know about this? Maybe something was said, but there were a lot of clapping when they started showing the other doctors and I may have missed it.


Nothing was said by way of explanation. I think the writers were hoping that the viewers would be too distracted by their collective nerdgasm to care.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

I wish we had been able to go to the 3D showing! 

The closest theater was about 50-60 miles away and the weather turned a bit nasty (ice/sleet) so I was a bit hesitant to make the trek. My daughter was very disappointed as she had it all planned out which Doctor Who t-shirt to wear and she also was going to wear her fez.


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## cstelter (Mar 18, 2002)

I think Moffet intentionally left out a couple scenes. Nowhere do we see why Tennant/Smith got in their tardis's (what exactly is the plural of tardis???) and decide to go to Gallifrey. All they said was 'this is supposed to be time locked, we shouldn't even be here' and 'something let us through' and bad wolf saying 'you clever boys'. 

Were they *trying* to get there? If so, why would they try if they thought it would be impossible? Were they sucked in there by the moment many adventures for each after the war doctor disappeared mysteriously from the zygon negotiations?

If it is the latter which I'm inclined to think, then I suppose the moment brought in all of them so Hurt/Tennant/Smith could tell Harnell what needed to be done so that Smith would have all the calculations to accomplish it.

Of course none of the previous incarnations recall any of it becuase their time streams were out of sync... 

The other missing scene is how Hurt got back to his tardis miles and miles away from the barn he was at in order to join the other two on thier approach to Gallifrey. Where exactly was this barn anyway? I thought it was somewhere on Gallifrey unimportant and thus ignored by the war. But then the doctors should have not been approaching Gallifrey from outer space...

Anyway, I kind of found those two missing transitions a bit jarring. The 2nd one probably not so important, but the first one I think may have to do with explaininig why all the other Doctors arrived.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

cstelter said:


> I think Moffet intentionally left out a couple scenes. Nowhere do we see why Tennant/Smith got in their tardis's (what exactly is the plural of tardis???)


It's not plural, its all the same tardis


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

zordude said:


> It's not plural, its all the same tardis


It's all the same Doctor, but that doesn't stop us from referring to them in plural.

In any case, the plural of tardis (or any word) should not have an apostrophe.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

I was about to say that there is only one Tardis so there is no plural, but then I remembered the episode when the Doctor stole A Tardis from a line of them on Galifrey!

(IIRC, it was #44 or thereabouts.)


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

cstelter said:


> I think Moffet intentionally left out a couple scenes. Nowhere do we see why Tennant/Smith got in their tardis's (what exactly is the plural of tardis???) and decide to go to Gallifrey. All they said was 'this is supposed to be time locked, we shouldn't even be here' and 'something let us through' and bad wolf saying 'you clever boys'.
> 
> Were they *trying* to get there? If so, why would they try if they thought it would be impossible? Were they sucked in there by the moment many adventures for each after the war doctor disappeared mysteriously from the zygon negotiations?


Clara told them they had to go. It was implied in her line "see? I told you it hasn't happened yet." They tried because she told them to.



> The other missing scene is how Hurt got back to his tardis miles and miles away from the barn he was at in order to join the other two on thier approach to Gallifrey. Where exactly was this barn anyway? I thought it was somewhere on Gallifrey unimportant and thus ignored by the war. But then the doctors should have not been approaching Gallifrey from outer space...


On another planet in the galaxy. The moment destroys a whole galaxy. It doesn't have to be near Gallifrey.


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## cstelter (Mar 18, 2002)

JETarpon said:


> Clara told them they had to go. It was implied in her line "see? I told you it hasn't happened yet." They tried because she told them to.
> 
> On another planet in the galaxy. The moment destroys a whole galaxy. It doesn't have to be near Gallifrey.


Good answers. I like them. Doesn't help explain how Hartnel showed up then. Yes I konw 's is for possessive or possibly contraction as in it's, but tardises, tardii, tardi, and tardis all seemed lacking, so I just threw it in there for grins.


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

cstelter said:


> Good answers. I like them. Doesn't help explain how Hartnel showed up then.


Clara has been in Hartnell's timeline, she told him which TARDIS to take. She has been in all the Doctor's timelines.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

cstelter said:


> I think Moffet intentionally left out a couple scenes. Nowhere do we see why Tennant/Smith got in their tardis's (what exactly is the plural of tardis???) and decide to go to Gallifrey. All they said was 'this is supposed to be time locked, we shouldn't even be here' and 'something let us through' and bad wolf saying 'you clever boys'.
> 
> Were they *trying* to get there? If so, why would they try if they thought it would be impossible? Were they sucked in there by the moment many adventures for each after the war doctor disappeared mysteriously from the zygon negotiations?
> 
> ...


Sorry, but I am glad you are not the show-runner. I don't need that kind of minutiae in my story. Especially with a story about instant travel in time and space.

(Although, did you miss that the three TARDII were actually coincident at one point? If you want to pick a nit, point out that the TARDIS is normally coincident when multiple Doctors are involved.)


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

cstelter said:


> Good answers. I like them. Doesn't help explain how Hartnel showed up then.


Grrrrr.

You do know this show is about TIME TRAVEL???


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

If I had any problem with the episode, it would be this: In Night of the Doctor, 8 is asked by the sisters whom he wants to be, and what character traits he wants to have. "Fat or thin, wise or angry," etc. His response is that he wants to regenerate as "a warrior". Hurt is the War Doctor. But is he really, as portrayed by Hurt? Hurt seems pretty affable to me in Day of the Doctor. He comes across as weary, and his decisions weigh on him, and (at least according to the Moment) he doesn't want the TARDIS to see his actions when he is going to activate the device. Hurt didn't come across as militaristic to me. He didn't seem like a warrior. He basically just seemed like, well, the Doctor. And if the distinction that makes him the "warrior" is that he's capable of pushing the button when the others are not, well, that proves not to be the case when 10 and 11 join him in solidarity and acceptance and are prepared to push the button with him. Was the Sisters' potion just not much of an effective potion?

For that matter, if any Doctor was to be reviled by the others, why wouldn't they have animosity toward 8, who made the decision to abandon his Doctorness in favor of becoming a warrior, as opposed to hating the warrior he became?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

We don't know how much time passed between Night and Day, and how much the War Doctor changed during that span...


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> We don't know how much time passed between Night and Day, and how much the War Doctor changed during that span...


In fact, based on the reflection we saw of him in Night of the Doctor, it appeared that he was noticeably younger then.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> In fact, based on the reflection we saw of him in Night of the Doctor, it appeared that he was noticeably younger then.


Exactly.... just imagine how many years it would take a Time Lord to physically age as much as John Hurt did between the time the picture used in "Night of the Doctor" was taken and today.

Even people bred to be warriors get weary eventually.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Being a warrior to the Doctor could be as simple as being able to use a gun (of any kind) to kill w/o getting all boo-hoo sappy about it.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

The warrior doctor was to put it simply a doctor capable of using a weapon. That's why he seemed to have such disdain for the other two when they were using screwdrivers.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Azlen said:


> The warrior doctor was to put it simply a doctor capable of using a weapon. That's why he seemed to have such disdain for the other two when they were using screwdrivers.


 Maybe the disconnect for me is that, for me, a warrior would have fought/disarmed/killed someone pointing a halberd in his face. Hurt might have disdained the screwdriver-as-weapon, but of the three of them he seemed the most passive.


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## cstelter (Mar 18, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> Grrrrr.
> 
> You do know this show is about TIME TRAVEL???


Heh...

Sure, war, 10 or 11 could have gone back and left a message about where to go and why ala River's many 'Hello Sweetie' messages. But they didn't show this and thus the question of how Hartnel knew to show up.

A bazillion possibilities (all involving some form of time travel, no doubt) but will they ever explain it?

For Capaldi, he can pretty much decide when he wants to go since 11 knows when and where it has to happen and he'll be Capaldi soon. He has an entire regeneration to get around to it.


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## cstelter (Mar 18, 2002)

danterner said:


> Maybe the disconnect for me is that, for me, a warrior would have fought/disarmed/killed someone pointing a halberd in his face. Hurt might have disdained the screwdriver-as-weapon, but of the three of them he seemed the most passive.


Even a warrior doctor is still the doctor and would recognize who his enemy is. A primitive arrest certainly would not call for a warrior's response. Had there been a sentry of Daleks surrounding him, I suspect the scene would have gone much differently.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

cstelter said:


> Heh... Sure, war, 10 or 11 could have gone back and left a message about where to go and why ala River's many 'Hello Sweetie' messages. But they didn't show this and thus the question of how Hartnel knew to show up. A bazillion possibilities (all involving some form of time travel, no doubt) but will they ever explain it? For Capaldi, he can pretty much decide when he wants to go since 11 knows when and where it has to happen and he'll be Capaldi soon. He has an entire regeneration to get around to it.


It begs the question of why none of the post-Capaldi Doctors showed up (we know that, at the very least, there's the future Doctor that chose to look like Tom Baker again. Why didn't he attend?)


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

The Monday showings did a pretty big box office in the US.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/11/26/doctor-who-box-office/

The Time Lord has conquered the box office.

A special nationwide 3D screening of the Doctor Who 50th anniversary TV special Day of the Doctor grossed a stunning $4.8 million at the U.S. box office.

What makes this particularly impressive: Thats from one night. The 75-minute Day of the Doctor screened in 660 theaters as a one-night-only special event Monday and averaged $7,155 per location, with 320,000 tickets sold. Granted, the tix were $15 a pop, so that certainly helped.

In fact, the BBCs cult favorite show was the No. 2 movie in America on Monday, behind only The Hunger Games: Catching Fire. Its gross is nearly as much as The Wizard of Oz in 3D made during its entire run earlier this year ($5.5 million). And it was more than indie fav Much Ado About Nothing ($4.3 million) or bomb The Fifth Estate ($3.3 million).


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## cstelter (Mar 18, 2002)

danterner said:


> It begs the question of why none of the post-Capaldi Doctors showed up (we know that, at the very least, there's the future Doctor that chose to look like Tom Baker again. Why didn't he attend?)


Simple, they haven't been cast yet... 

Or they rembered that 13 was enough to do the job and didn't bother showing up.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

cstelter said:


> Sure, war, 10 or 11 could have gone back and left a message about where to go and why ala River's many 'Hello Sweetie' messages. But they didn't show this and thus the question of how Hartnel knew to show up.


I don't believe that they have to fill in every line for us. It made for a better surprise to see it happening rather than show everything they did to make it happen.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

It a ratings win for BBC America:

http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/11/25/doctor-who-ratings-day/


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## pteronaut (Dec 26, 2009)

danterner said:


> It begs the question of why none of the post-Capaldi Doctors showed up (we know that, at the very least, there's the future Doctor that chose to look like Tom Baker again. Why didn't he attend?)


For the same reason that 25 years ago only Five Doctors (Four in reality due to Baker's refusal) showed for that Anniversary.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Azlen said:


> I don't believe that they have to fill in every line for us. It made for a better surprise to see it happening rather than show everything they did to make it happen.


Exactly. The other would have been BORING.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Yes, I get the real-world practical reasons. But it seemed like there was a disconnect between on the one hand having the "all twelve Doctors - no, all thirteen" line of dialog, versus showing a 14th in the Baker cameo at the end. They could have omitted the "all thirteen" line but still showed Capaldi's eyes, or they could have showed many TARDISes, or any number of other things - instead it just seems like we were given two things that don't reconcile well.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

pteronaut said:


> For the same reason that 25 years ago only Five Doctors (Four in reality due to Baker's refusal) showed for that Anniversary.


And one was a recast. (Hartnell was already dead.)


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

JETarpon said:


> I saw it in 3D tonight, too.
> 
> So for the rest of you, how was the crowd? I was trying to figure out in advance if it would be an interactive crowd (cheers, applause, etc.) or would it be a reverent crowd. It turns out it was much much quieter than I expected it to be. Laughter where appropriate, and applause at the end, but that was about it.
> 
> ...


I saw the 3d simulcast. The Huntington Beach theater had it on 6 screens and all were sold out. The theater I was in the audience was great. I never expected teenage girls to cheer for the classic Doctors, but every time one came on the screen they went nuts. Of course they went nuts for Matt And David. But I was surprised at the cheers when all 13 showed up at the climax to hide Gallifrey and when Tom Baker appeared as the curator.

All in all a good 50th.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

danterner said:


> Maybe the disconnect for me is that, for me, a warrior would have fought/disarmed/killed someone pointing a halberd in his face. Hurt might have disdained the screwdriver-as-weapon, but of the three of them he seemed the most passive.


He'd had years as the warrior under his belt. He was tired of it. That's why he was going for The Final Solution.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Forgive me because I'm only halfway through the 5th doctor after being a regular follower only for Tom Baker.

I chose to jump in and spoil. I'll catch up at my leisure. I even started watching the 1st doctor.

Why is there controversy as to who the curator was when he said, "I'm you. You're me?"


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

MikeAndrews said:


> Why is there controversy as to who the curator was when he said, "I'm you. You're me?"


Because the Tom Baker body regenerated and shouldn't be growing old somewhere else. I guessed people missed the line about revisiting old favorites. Basically the doctor regenerated into an older version of his previous self sometime in the future.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

MikeAndrews said:


> Why is there controversy as to who the curator was when he said, "I'm you. You're me?"


Because some people believe he was an old #4 when he was actually a much later Doctor that chose to regenerate into an old familiar (favorite) form.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

Philosofy said:


> But the software was backed up to the cloud...


I would certainly hope a race capable of creating a ship powered by a dying star could manage the backup of their data. Even us mere humans of the early 21st century have the ability for software to automatically fail over to new hardware without the software even knowing anything has changed. The masters of time and space should be able to manage having sonic screwdrivers regularly backed up in the databases of their TARDI.



madscientist said:


> Well, they played the identical trick to perform the computations required to freeze Gallifrey, so _that_ might bother you .


My guess is that they probably used the TARDIS for that rather than the screwdriver. So even if one doesn't accept that the screwdriver calculations would have survived, the TARDIS ones would have.

Although it is interesting to think about what type of calculations those would have to be. Anyone capable of building a ship that exists in a pocket dimension of space would have the abilty to create a pocket dimension of time. Thus, any types of calculations that we would be used to could be done instantly regardless of how long they would take in normal space-time, meaning the TARDIS could do those without needing the Doctor to pass them from one incarnation to the next.

Furthermore, once Doctor 13 finished his calculations, he could pass the results back to Doctor 1, and a new round of calculations could begin. This would seem to be paradoxical from our perspective, but perhaps this is what allowed him to do calculations at, for lack of a better phrase, "a higher order of infinity".

The calculations might act similar to how Clara was being spread across the Doctor's timeline. Rather than starting at one point in the Doctor's life and ending in another, the calculations would exist simultaneously at all points, and converge on a solution in some sort of meta-time.


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## ACoolDude (Dec 11, 2001)

Linnemir said:


> I LOVE that picture! It would make such a GREAT wallpaper! Does anyone have a link or something for it?


You can get the shirt today...sort of


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## Vendikarr (Feb 24, 2004)

danterner said:


> It begs the question of why none of the post-Capaldi Doctors showed up (we know that, at the very least, there's the future Doctor that chose to look like Tom Baker again. Why didn't he attend?)


The calculations were balanced for 13 TARDIS, since as far as the Doctor knows at this point, that's all he gets.

Any bump in the number of regenerations will come during Capaldi's term.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

I just watched the Five-ish Doctors with Chromecast.

Is there reason to be believe it really is the other doctors under the shrouds in the 50th? Are they listed in the credits?


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## cstelter (Mar 18, 2002)

Vendikarr said:


> The calculations were balanced for 13 TARDIS, since as far as the Doctor knows at this point, that's all he gets.
> 
> Any bump in the number of regenerations will come during Capaldi's term.


I think it is going to have to happen this month... I'm convinced the Smith doctor knows he is out of regenerations. When River kissed the doctor in 'Let's Kill Hitler', he was dying. He claimed 'I'll just regenerate' and the tardis interface replied 'Regeneration Disabled'. He used 11 regenerations to come up with the 12 Doctors we know of, but he used his 12th when a Dalek hit him in Stolen Planet. He didn't use the part of the regeneration that changed his image (just the healing power) but the regeneration was spent and wound up creating the human/timelord metacrisis or whatever they called the Doctor Donna/human Doctor deal.

I'm convinced, but wouldn't be terribly surprised to find I am wrong


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

I agree.


Spoiler



Moffat pretty much said that Smith was 13th and that the regeneration limit would be addressed in the Christmas special


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Moffatt actually said that the Doctor doesn't know what number he is and that the number and numbering itself doesn't matter. He said no Doctor has every referred to themselves by a number.

It's the regenerations that matter (that's me saying that) and he seems to know he's out them.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

He has already gone beyond his regeneration limit. The curator at the end of Day of the Doctor wasn't Four but a future doctor who was revisiting an old favorite. 
The whole discussion kind of makes me chuckle anyway. The regeneration thing was thought up as a way for them to replace the lead actor. It shouldn't be too much trouble to come up with something else to explain why he's getting more.


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## cstelter (Mar 18, 2002)

JETarpon said:


> I agree.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





Spoiler



Yes, I read that article too.

If you go back to the Night of the doctor thread though I had posted pretty much the same idea. Only I was stupid and miscounted and exluded the Stolen Planet event instead of including it. I ran the idea past my son later that day and he pointed out my inability to count, so I revised the theory at the time to count it rather than discount it. So I figured it was close enough to conjecture not to have to spoilerize the idea (though I can agree the article deserves spoilering). Those statements by Moffat since pretty much proved the theory though.

The Hitler episode just really convinced me that Moffat has been planning this a while. I remember when I first viewed the episode thinking 'huh, regeneration disabled??? Becuase of the type of poison? Lame...' But of course this was Moffat who rarely does such lame things so I should have known better. Also I figured since he started to regenerate in Impossible Astronaut that clearly he wasn't out of regenerations. But that was just a tesselact (sp?) pretending to die on his behalf so that would seem to just be a convincing lie for his companions.


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

Azlen said:


> The curator at the end of Day of the Doctor wasn't Four but a future doctor who was revisiting an old favorite.


Not at all important but I thought he said he might visit 'not just' his old favourites (or something similar)?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Raisltin Majere said:


> Not at all important but I thought he said he might visit 'not just' his old favourites (or something similar)?


"but just", not "not just":

Eleven: I never forget a face.
Curator: I know you don't. And in years to come, you might find yourself revisiting a few. But just the old favorites, eh?

source: http://www.threeifbyspace.net/2013/12/the-day-of-the-doctor-all-the-quotes-all-the-feels/


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

Ah, I must have misheard 'but' as 'not'

Thanks for that


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Azlen said:


> He has already gone beyond his regeneration limit. The curator at the end of Day of the Doctor wasn't Four but a future doctor who was revisiting an old favorite.


Yes. Already in the future. But we knew the regeneration limit would be solved somehow anyway because we know there's a replacement for Matt Smith.


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

I figured the limit wouldn't apply - it was arbitrary set by the council, no?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Raisltin Majere said:


> I figured the limit wouldn't apply - it was arbitrary set by the council, no?


They've already set up so many in-story ways around the limit, at this point it's just a matter of which one will they choose.


----------



## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> They've already set up so many in-story ways around the limit, at this point it's just a matter of which one will they choose.


 true


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> They've already set up so many in-story ways around the limit, at this point it's just a matter of which one will they choose.


Maybe they'll make up another new one


----------



## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

MikeAndrews said:


> I just watched the Five-ish Doctors with Chromecast.
> 
> Is there reason to be believe it really is the other doctors under the shrouds in the 50th? Are they listed in the credits?


I doubt it, I think it was a cute hack invented by Davison. 
BTW _*all*_ the Doctors are listed in the credits, including Hartnell, Pertwee and Troughton.


----------



## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

scandia101 said:


> Maybe they'll make up another new one


Didn't river give up her regenerations to him? Was that implied or am I remembering everything wrong?


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## Vendikarr (Feb 24, 2004)

NJChris said:


> Didn't river give up her regenerations to him? Was that implied or am I remembering everything wrong?


She funneled all of her regeneration energy into him. Whether or not that will manifest in additional regenerations is up to Moffet.


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## cstelter (Mar 18, 2002)

Vendikarr said:


> She funneled all of her regeneration energy into him. Whether or not that will manifest in additional regenerations is up to Moffet.


Exactly. I suspect that Moffat had not yet decided to make River a Time lord when he created her in Silence in the Library. He had to somehow rid her of her remaining 10 or so regenerations so that the ending of Forest of Trees would make sense.

They were clear that she spent all her regeneration energy to save him, but they were rather unclear if that transferred any extra regenerations to him.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

cstelter said:


> Exactly. I suspect that Moffat had not yet decided to make River a Time lord when he created her in Silence in the Library. He had to somehow rid her of her remaining 10 or so regenerations so that the ending of Forest of Trees would make sense.


I imagine that even if she still had her regenerations available, the events of Forest of Trees would have killed her quickly enough that she wouldn't not have been able to regenerate from it.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

That would be an interesting story: The Doctor realizes River can regenerate, and gets her back from the Library. Of course, if he knew that, he never would have given the screwdriver to her. Man, this timey wimey stuff gets complicated.


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## cstelter (Mar 18, 2002)

Perhaps.. I went back and rewatched her death. I would imagine if it was enough to kill her anyway, there ought to have been at least an attempt to regenerate ala when he was shot by lake silencio. 

BTW, I messed up the title-- it was Forest of the Dead...

I hope we'll get to see the scene where he gives her the screwdriver just prior to her visiting the library. I'm pretty sure it was Matt Smith's screwdriver-- clever that they had invented the look of his 2 years prior to his taking over...


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

cstelter said:


> I hope we'll get to see the scene where he gives her the screwdriver just prior to her visiting the library. I'm pretty sure it was Matt Smith's screwdriver-- clever that they had invented the look of his 2 years prior to his taking over...


No, it was a different design than 10 and 11's screwdrivers. It was more similar to 10's than 11's.

Here's a good comparison of the three, keeping in mind this is someone's flickr photo of the toy replicas:








11's is the top, River's is the middle, and 10's is the bottom.


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## cstelter (Mar 18, 2002)

LoadStar said:


> No, it was a different design than 10 and 11's screwdrivers. It was more similar to 10's than 11's.


Yeah, I know-- I mentioned the same to my son and he set me straight. I only glanced at it quickly and it looked more like Matt's than Tennants so I jumped to conclusions. Still, I think it would be a great scene to see some day. She said he showed up on her doorstep with a new haircut and took her out and gave her the sonic. New haircut could mean new regeneration I suppose.

Ah well.


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## ThePennyDropped (Jul 5, 2006)

cstelter said:


> Still, I think it would be a great scene to see some day. She said he showed up on her doorstep with a new haircut and took her out and gave her the sonic. New haircut could mean new regeneration I suppose.
> 
> Ah well.


It's not a new regeneration of the doctor.

The scene you describe above is actually shown in a mini episode that was included on one of the Matt Smith Doctor Who dvds (I don't own it, I've only seen the scene online).

There were a series of 5 miniepisodes called something like "Nights on the Tardis" or "Tardis Nights". Most have been removed from Youtube, but I did find the one that shows the scene you describe (it's toward the end). This episode was called "Last Night".

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPVZEQQUnu8[/media]


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

ThePennyDropped said:


> It's not a new regeneration of the doctor.
> 
> The scene you describe above is actually shown in a mini episode that was included on one of the Matt Smith Doctor Who dvds (I don't own it, I've only seen the scene online).
> 
> ...


Awesome! I didn't know these existed! Are there more, and how do I get them?


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## ThePennyDropped (Jul 5, 2006)

Philosofy said:


> Awesome! I didn't know these existed! Are there more, and how do I get them?


It seems I had the title wrong (for the collection of mini-episodes); it was really "Night and the Doctor". It looks like the mini-episodes were on the season 6 (full season) dvd, maybe you could borrow it from a friend or library?

I saw them all on youtube a couple years ago, but the BBC has taken most of them down. You can try searching for individual episode names (Bad Night, Good Night, First Night, Last Night and Up All Night). Be sure to include more than just youtube in your search.

Here's some info: http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Night_and_the_Doctor


> Night and the Doctor was the umbrella title for a series of five mini-episodes of Doctor Who released as part of the complete series 6 home video release. Included in the anthological series were Bad Night, Good Night, First Night, Last Night and Up All Night. According to Doctor Who Confidential: The Night's Tale, the first four episodes were directed by Richard Senior.
> 
> All but Up All Night are written by Steven Moffat; Up All Night is written by Tom MacRae but is erroneously credited to Moffat on screen; a correction is printed in the booklet that accompanied the Series 6 box set.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

MikeAndrews said:


> I just watched the Five-ish Doctors with Chromecast.


I stopped by and saw the "Captain Jack Harkness" episode of Torchwood. Now I'm hooked.

Ya think on "The Five-ish Doctors" when they run into John Barrowman he insisted that they find him with the wife and kids so he can show he's not really gay? 

Is he really an American? Better be. OK, born in Scotland but grew up in Joliet, IL.

He really is a good looking guy.

Being that my first time seeing him waa on "Arrow," he's a whole different character as Captain Jack.

I'm up to the middle of the second season of the tenth doctor. The plots are getting a little repetitive.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

MikeAndrews said:


> Ya think on "The Five-ish Doctors" when they run into John Barrowman he insisted that they find him with the wife and kids so he can show he's not really gay?


Not sure if serious....

On the off chance that you are: John Barrowman really is gay.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

busyba said:


> Not sure if serious....
> 
> On the off chance that you are: John Barrowman really is gay.


Yeah I was. Didn't know. Then wife and kids was the joke.

 I shouldda read further on his wikipedia page.


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

MikeAndrews said:


> Yeah I was. Didn't know. Then wife and kids was the joke.
> 
> I shouldda read further on his wikipedia page.


Is Colin Baker's wife and kids also a joke, or is it really them?


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

dtle said:


> Is Colin Baker's wife and kids also a joke, or is it really them?


It's really them, according to the credit. They're all Bakers anyway. 

Greg


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## Ozzie72 (Aug 9, 2008)

scandia101 said:


> Maybe they'll make up another new one


Possible smeek alert (still need to catch up on the thread) and kooky theory warning: Smith's Doctor finds Gallifrey and restores it to real-time in the Christmas special but is mortally wounded in the effort, and the Time Lords grant him a new set of regenerations in gratitude.


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## cstelter (Mar 18, 2002)

Ozzie72 said:


> Possible smeek alert (still need to catch up on the thread) and kooky theory warning: Smith's Doctor finds Gallifrey and restores it to real-time in the Christmas special but is mortally wounded in the effort, and the Time Lords grant him a new set of regenerations in gratitude.


That is my anticipation as well, but would be thrilled to find they went a different way (only becuase I'd hate to have guessed right). I've seen this suggested a number of places. They could go with the 'River's saving him in Let's Kill Hitler' allowed him an extra regeneration and I'd be fine too. I like either of those explanations better than 'it's really more of a guideline and since there are no timelords to enforce it for him, he has an unlimited supply...'.


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## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

Maybe it was Rose's Buffy moment in season 1 that gave him unlimited regenerations.....


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

I get the sense that the Search For Home is more of a long arc, though - that it is meant to set the direction for Capaldi and maybe even a few of his successors - not that it's a thing that will be resolved in a single Christmas episode. I don't think Smith will be the one to find it.


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## Ozzie72 (Aug 9, 2008)

danterner said:


> I get the sense that the Search For Home is more of a long arc, though - that it is meant to set the direction for Capaldi and maybe even a few of his successors - not that it's a thing that will be resolved in a single Christmas episode. I don't think Smith will be the one to find it.


Honestly, I suspect you're right, but after the Tennant / Smith years, part of me is hoping we get a break from the long arc approach and see more standalone, classic-series storytelling. My kooky theory has the advantage of supporting my wish fulfillment fantasies.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)




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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Interesting..

Moffat on Eccleston's role in the 50th, if he had said yes to a return.

http://www.doctorwhohub.tv/?p=972


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Kamakzie said:


> Interesting..
> 
> Moffat on Ecclestons role in the 50th, if he had said yes to a return.
> 
> http://www.doctorwhohub.tv/?p=972


Since you posted this into two threads, I'm not sure where to respond, but I guess it fits best here.

I don't get what Moffat is saying. First he says that Eccleston would have been the War Doctor - but then contradicts that by saying, essentially, that it wouldn't have made any sense to have him as the War Doctor, given that it was pretty obvious that the Doctor had just regenerated in Rose.

It sounds to me like what he really is saying is "I had no expectations that Eccleston would have returned, and therefore didn't write it with him in mind. So no, he wouldn't have been the War Doctor, at least not how it was presented."


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

It was kind of strangely put. I think what he was saying was that since Eccleston almost certainly wasn't coming back, he didn't give it much thought; what thought he did give it was that Eccleston would be the War Doctor, but now that he's thought about it some more, he realizes that wouldn't have made any sense.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

I think it worked pretty well the way it ended up. Eccleston was always a bit dark, but I never really got the Warrior vibe from him. Hurt filled in the gap nicely.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

LoadStar said:


> Since you posted this into two threads, I'm not sure where to respond, but I guess it fits best here. I don't get what Moffat is saying. First he says that Eccleston would have been the War Doctor - but then contradicts that by saying, essentially, that it wouldn't have made any sense to have him as the War Doctor, given that it was pretty obvious that the Doctor had just regenerated in Rose. It sounds to me like what he really is saying is "I had no expectations that Eccleston would have returned, and therefore didn't write it with him in mind. So no, he wouldn't have been the War Doctor, at least not how it was presented."


 Not so hard. The Doctor regenerates into himself!


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

Seriously, we need to get over the whole Eccleston thing. He was good, but personalities got it a way. 

Do Bond fans still lament over George Lazenby?


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## kmccbf (Mar 9, 2002)

dtle said:


> Seriously, we need to get over the whole Eccleston thing. He was good, but personalities got it a way.
> 
> Do Bond fans still lament over George Lazenby?


Yes, we do. He was may favorite after Connery until Craig.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

Sadly, the script for OHMSS stank, which didn't help Lazenby's case, but it's my understanding that after making that movie, he didn't want to return.

We're currently working our way through all the films (thanks to Fox's deal, we got the Bond 50 set with Skyfall for $99.99!). We also made a pact that no matter how bad some of them are, we'll watch them all! Mercifully, we're through the end of Moore's run (A View To A Kill) and moving on to Dalton, Brosnan and, of course, Craig.

I agree that Craig is the best after Connery. However, watching the films move with the times and capitalizing on the then latest fads is fascinating!

Perhaps this shouldn't be in a Doctor Who thread, so apologies for the hijack!


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

I'm on episode 12 of the 2nd Tennant season where the Doctor tells Rose he had a daughter.

I was wondering how they explain how the 1st Doctor has a granddaughter.

Watching episode 1, the doctor is also prone to screaming like, "You had to screw it up!" and he says, "I'm a scientist. They call me the doctor."


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