# 20.3.8 Release Notes



## TiVoMargret (Feb 3, 2008)

TiVo Roamio and TiVo Mini boxes (purchased from tivo.com or a retailer) were authorized for the 20.3.8 software update tonight.

Here are some of the changes:

- new transparency options for Closed Captions
- support for new apps (some of which may start appearing next week)
- support for "low battery" message for new RF remotes
- fixed an issue where the grid Guide didn't keep its place after scheduling a recording
- now will retry tuning requests after a Tuning Adapter fails to respond
- improved some issues related to transferring shows between Series4 and Series5 DVRs


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## jwbelcher (Nov 13, 2007)

TiVoMargret said:


> TiVo Roamio and TiVo Mini boxes (purchased from tivo.com or a retailer) were authorized for the 20.3.8 software update tonight.
> 
> Here are some of the changes:
> 
> ...


I bet you've made some happy campers tonight. Dave where are you?


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## Sixto (Sep 16, 2005)

All set here. Just finished all 7 boxes. Thanks M.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

TiVoMargret said:


> TiVo Roamio and TiVo Mini boxes (purchased from tivo.com or a retailer) were authorized for the 20.3.8 software update tonight.


Thanks for the info!



> - now will retry tuning requests after a Tuning Adapter fails to respond


That is probably the "big one"/"most important" one. Have seen lots of complains revolving around this, and it has bitten me too!

Sigh.... I want Android video streaming.....


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

TiVoMargret said:


> - improved some issues related to transferring shows between Series4 and Series5 DVRs


Oh, it just occurred to me, I *do* have that issue. I don't use the Premiere much, and the weak/slow WiFi I have to it makes streaming from it spotty... and every time I have tried to transfer a show from it to my Roamio, it has done absolutely nothing. It queues it up and turns blue and shows it and no video ever comes over.

I thought it was odd that it didn't work, since it shouldn't matter what your network speed is when transferring from one TiVo to another. Will test this probably tomorrow.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Sigh. 20.3.8 brought back one of the HDUI wishlists issues that had been fixed in 20.3.7:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9931637#post9931637


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

TiVoMargret said:


> TiVo Roamio and TiVo Mini boxes (purchased from tivo.com or a retailer) were authorized for the 20.3.8 software update tonight. Here are some of the changes: - ........ - now will retry tuning requests after a Tuning Adapter fails to respond - ........





jwbelcher said:


> I bet you've made some happy campers tonight. Dave where are you?


WoooooHoooooo!!!!!


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## ustavio (Oct 19, 2013)

TiVoMargret said:


> TiVo Roamio and TiVo Mini boxes (purchased from tivo.com or a retailer) were authorized for the 20.3.8 software update tonight.
> 
> Here are some of the changes:
> 
> ...


No mention of a fix for random Netflix or non Netflix reboot issues. Back burner until next update?


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## elwaylite (Apr 23, 2006)

Thanks.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

I've had the update for less than 12 hours and I already had the UI lockup that required a restart. Not off to a good start to me.

Plus, I'm getting the dreaded C133 error this morning as well. I can't say the Roamio has been a very pleasant experience as of late. I miss the days when I could rely on my TiVo.


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## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

rainwater said:


> I've had the update for less than 12 hours and I already had the UI lockup that required a restart. Not off to a good start to me.
> 
> Plus, I'm getting the dreaded C133 error this morning as well. I can't say the Roamio has been a very pleasant experience as of late. I miss the days when I could rely on my TiVo.


Trying to update this morning. First time sat on downloading for a long time. Ended up with unrecoverable error.

Trying again now.

Tivo is becoming a bit of a joke. I feel like I do with Apple lately.....the users are the beta testers.

-Kevin


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## monkeydust (Dec 12, 2004)

TiVoMargret said:


> - now will retry tuning requests after a Tuning Adapter fails to respond


I hope this makes a significant improvement as I have had the issue pretty bad on both my Elite and Plus.


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## bbrown9 (Mar 12, 2011)

Ugghh! the 2 issues that impact me the most are not on Margret's list of changes - Netflix reboot and the extra recording you get when padding the stop time of a SP episode.

Will there be another release soon that focuses on those 2 issues? Please?


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## rsnaider (Apr 25, 2002)

bbrown9 said:


> Ugghh! the 2 issues that impact me the most are not on Margret's list of changes - Netflix reboot and the extra recording you get when padding the stop time of a SP episode.
> 
> Will there be another release soon that focuses on those 2 issues? Please?


Yup, both missing, but I will try the padding later today as my boxes only updated early this morning and I am at work now.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

TiVoMargret said:


> .....
> - now will retry tuning requests after a Tuning Adapter fails to respond
> .......


Finally! Series 3 and 4 owners have been requesting this for years -- we always thought it could be done. And I suppose it will never be implemented for those models.

I wonder if "after a Tuning Adapter fails to respond" is the accurate phrase or if "after the Tivo fails to properly handle the TA interface handshake" would be more accurate?


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

dlfl said:


> Finally! Series 3 and 4 owners have been requesting this for years -- we always thought it could be done. And I suppose it will never be implemented for those models.


Actually, Margret posted the same change log in the Premiere forum and I have 20.3.8 on my TCD746320 already. However, Series 3 owners are unlikely to ever get it.


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## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

Anyone else having issues downloading this this morning?

I've gotten an unrecoverable error and now two N11 errors trying to download.

Connection on the Tivo fine. Tests passed, Netflix works. No C133 error as far as I can tell.

Is this just a Tivo mothership issue?

-Kevin


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

kbmb said:


> Anyone else having issues downloading this this morning?
> 
> I've gotten an unrecoverable error and now two N11 errors trying to download.
> 
> ...


I downloaded yesterday around 6:00 PM EST and everything came in fine on my Premiere. It installed overnight. When I checked the Network screen this morning, it displayed an error message for the last connection. I forced connection again and everything was fine. Still seems to be some Tivo server issues lingering.


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## andyf (Feb 23, 2000)

kbmb said:


> Anyone else having issues downloading this this morning?
> 
> I've gotten an unrecoverable error and now two N11 errors trying to download.
> 
> ...


Yup! My Premier errored out and my Roamio is stuck on Getting Info.


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## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

andyf said:


> Yup! My Premier errored out and my Roamio is stuck on Getting Info.


Lovely.  Thanks for the info. Always better to suffer with others right?!

Way to go Tivo.....yet again the best thing you manage to do is fail.

Anyone think maybe Tivo's servers are running off of this?










-Kevin


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## Cryptotech (Dec 10, 2013)

kbmb said:


> Anyone else having issues downloading this this morning?
> 
> I've gotten an unrecoverable error and now two N11 errors trying to download.
> 
> ...


Trying to get update this morning my Roamio hangs on "Getting info (Downloading...)" then fails with "unrecoverable error."


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

Cryptotech said:


> Trying to get update my roamio hangs on "Getting info (Downloding...)" then fails with "unrecoverable error."


My Roamio updated this morning. I did have to force a connect. Both Mini's were pending restart and have since been updated.


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## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

Finally was able to download and update my Roamio successfully.

-Kevin


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## worachj (Oct 14, 2006)

Cryptotech said:


> Trying to get update this morning my Roamio hangs on "Getting info (Downloading...)" then fails with "unrecoverable error."


+1

Same thing happen to my Roamio and Premiere.


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## TiVoMargret (Feb 3, 2008)

It should work now.

Sorry.


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## worachj (Oct 14, 2006)

It's working now! Successful download for both my Roamio and Premiere.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

TiVoMargret said:


> - now will retry tuning requests after a Tuning Adapter fails to respond


If I were still on Cox, this would be amazing!  New apps, you say? Hmmm.


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## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

davezatz said:


> If I were still on Cox, this would be amazing!  New apps, you say? Hmmm.


I am on Cox, so this is like an early Christmas gift.

Also, I'm digging the new CC options, now I can use more Netflix like CC. Which helps. The addition of new fonts like Arial and a grey background would be killer.


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## patrickthickey (Sep 4, 2002)

TiVoMargret said:


> TiVo Roamio and TiVo Mini boxes (purchased from tivo.com or a retailer) were authorized for the 20.3.8 software update tonight.
> 
> Here are some of the changes:


Thank you for communicating this level of detail to the forum.

patrick


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

I was hoping for profiles in the now playing menu. Also for new wish lists to not default to record automatically.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

bobfrank said:


> I was hoping for profiles in the now playing menu. Also for new wish lists to not default to record automatically.


...and I wish Santa Claus was real...


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> ...and I wish Santa Claus was real...


...I want a pony


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

.....,., I got a rock! :-(

Seriously though, I went through my entire channel lineup again while recording on SDV channels on 5 of the 6 tuners. The tuning actually worked for EVERY CHANNEL......WOW!!!!!


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## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> .....,., I got a rock! :-(
> 
> Seriously though, I went through my entire channel lineup again while recording on SDV channels on 5 of the 6 tuners. The tuning actually worked for EVERY CHANNEL......WOW!!!!!


Really? So I should re-enable tuners 5 & 6? I'm sick and tired of my late night Nick @ Nite recordings being corrupt.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Signed up on the priority list last week and still no update love, even after emailing Margret this morning. Guess I'll just need to wait. Hopefully I get it by the time the masses get it.


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## pshivers (Nov 4, 2013)

Update is applied here, no problems.. There was no mention of this update fixing the tuners 5 and 6 not authorized problem, is this also fixed???


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

morac said:


> Signed up on the priority list last week and still no update love, even after emailing Margret this morning. Guess I'll just need to wait. Hopefully I get it by the time the masses get it.


There wasn't a priority list for the Roamios/Minis. Or did you mean the Premiere?


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## AdamNJ (Aug 22, 2013)

TiVoMargret said:


> - support for new apps (some of which may start appearing next week)


Fingers crossed for hbogo for xmas and maybe Amazon prime as a new years gift


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

TiVoMargret said:


> - new transparency options for Closed Captions


 Loving the new Captions options, thanks! Finally can get transparent background with yellow text.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Philmatic said:


> Really? So I should re-enable tuners 5 & 6? I'm sick and tired of my late night Nick @ Nite recordings being corrupt.


. Yes, try that. I only had a few minutes before I had to run out when I did the quick test, but ALL channels did tune.....eventually. Some had some issues and I'm sure would've not tuned with the old software but I just sat there and waited and eventually the video popped in without any further input from me. It seemed like forever for some, but I'm sure only 5-10 secs max. What seemed weird was a lot that did that WERE NOT SDV channels, like CNN.......hmmmmm.

Anyway, good job TiVo!


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## sinanju (Jan 3, 2005)

In the 10 days since installing, I've had a spontaneous reboot, a UI restart, and a partial recording for no good reason -- nothing in the release notes suggests the plaform is more stable now than before. 20 days to decide to keep this or not.

I've had a S2, S2DT, S3, XL4, and now an S5 Pro. More than ever, this box makes me long for my old, stable, performant 240. I'm really very disappointed.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

rainwater said:


> There wasn't a priority list for the Roamios/Minis. Or did you mean the Premiere?


Yeah. There's two 20.3.8 threads. I posted in the wrong one.


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## Icarus (Jun 15, 2002)

TiVoMargret said:


> - now will retry tuning requests after a Tuning Adapter fails to respond


Software updated last night on my roamio pro.

Got a V53 tonight, and it was never able to retune. I had to force it to stop recording that channel, manually channel up and down to retune.

What does the algorithm do? It didn't work for me. I think the CC and TA think that channel is already tuned in, so retrying doesn't do anything? Is that possible? I get this every once in a while, so if you want a test case ...

-David


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## vurbano (Apr 20, 2004)

Is thus why my roamio just rebooted and is installing an update at 8:30 in the morning on a Saturday? Highly annoying.


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## hamz9561 (Nov 15, 2013)

I got the update last night and had a restart this morning. So far no problems.


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## Elgato54 (Sep 21, 2010)

Got it last night. Hopefully it will improve stability.

Is this Roamio roll out the biggest mess yet?
Reboots, lock ups, bad channels, error messages, poor tuning and Support seems to be completely clueless.

In three years I never experienced anything like this with the Premiere.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Elgato54 said:


> Got it last night. Hopefully it will improve stability.
> 
> Is this Roamio roll out the biggest mess yet?
> Reboots, lock ups, bad channels, error messages, poor tuning and Support seems to be completely clueless.
> ...


Ehh, turned mine on and it was fine. Had an issue with pixelating using an older Cablecard, but TiVo qickly put out a patch.

The stream seems to reset from time to time, so I am looking forward to that product maturing a little.

But, I will say, the Roamio is the best tivo I have ever owned!


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

sinanju said:


> In the 10 days since installing, I've had a spontaneous reboot, a UI restart, and a partial recording for no good reason -- nothing in the release notes suggests the plaform is more stable now than before. 20 days to decide to keep this or not.
> 
> I've had a S2, S2DT, S3, XL4, and now an S5 Pro. More than ever, this box makes me long for my old, stable, performant 240. I'm really very disappointed.


10 days? This software just released yesterday.


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## jimmypowder (Oct 24, 2013)

Elgato54 said:


> Got it last night. Hopefully it will improve stability.
> 
> Is this Roamio roll out the biggest mess yet?
> Reboots, lock ups, bad channels, error messages, poor tuning and Support seems to be completely clueless.
> ...


Yeah I had zero and i mean zero issues with my Premiere.

The Roamio Plus ,on the other hand, has been a headache from streamin problems,c133 messages, lockups .

But it does boot up faster !


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

jimmypowder said:


> Yeah I had zero and i mean zero issues with my Premiere.


Which means, at a minimum, you don't use cable + SDV.


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## dizziness (May 8, 2006)

My issues with CBS2 WBBM Chicago using the Roamio and Stream combination were resolved. I'm assuming this came with some improvements made for OOH streaming.


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## jhwpbm (Feb 28, 2002)

crxssi said:


> Which means, at a minimum, you don't use cable + SDV.


No, the earlier TiVo's were (for me, at least) rock solid with cable card + SDV tuner, for several years now. The Roamio is quite a bit less trouble-free to date  lots of missed recordings, some that simply disappear from the menu completely (what's that all about LOL), streaming that is shaky, to say the least, etc.

I like having the potential for six tuners, though, so soldiering through in hopes of a more reliable experience to come.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

crxssi said:


> Which means, at a minimum, you don't use cable + SDV.


I've never had any cablecard/sdv issues with Charter since I got a Premiere (got it right at launch). I still don't have any issues tuning channels with the Roamio. I guess I am just lucky my cable headend is managed properly.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

rainwater said:


> I've never had any cablecard/sdv issues with Charter since I got a Premiere (got it right at launch). I still don't have any issues tuning channels with the Roamio. I guess I am just lucky my cable headend is managed properly.


Same here. Never had a problem with the tuning adapter. Although until recently I'm not sure they used it for many of the channels I actually watch. Now that they've added all these HD channels they're probably using it more, so I guess we'll see if I start to have the same problems others have had.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

monkeydust said:


> I hope this makes a significant improvement as I have had the issue pretty bad on both my Elite and Plus.


Before the update I didn't have the problem of SDV channels not tuning, now I am, frequently, on many channels. 

On top of that, I don't see anything to indicate it retries on its own. I see an instant error, and have to manual retry by pressing select (when that option is included in the error), or tune to another channel then try the afflicted channel again. 

Best case scenario is it might be it retries automatically when it is a scheduled recording and isn't auto-retying, when manually tuning. It makes little sense if this is the case.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

Dan203 said:


> Same here. Never had a problem with the tuning adapter. Although until recently I'm not sure they used it for many of the channels I actually watch. Now that they've added all these HD channels they're probably using it more, so I guess we'll see if I start to have the same problems others have had.


Before I bought any Roamios, Cox, in my area, went from 8 SDV channels (maybe premiums, PPV, or On-Demand, which I didn't have) to 160 in a month's time, even though they issued TAs about 8 months ago. As I already posted, the Roamio update took me from zero SDV issues to constant issues.

Whatever the workaround does, it broke something that was working (for me, YMMV).


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

We've had the new channels for about 2 weeks now and so far the only issue I've had are lineup issues. (a few of the channels are 3 hours off) Knock on wood.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I unplugged my TA and scanned through all the channels. Looks like only 3 of the HD channels use it. Most of the ones that didn't work where SD channels in the 100 range. I don't watch SD so I guess I don't even really need the TA at all.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I'm on Charter. I wasn't really considering taking the TAs back, or even disconnecting them, it was just an observation.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> 10 days? This software just released yesterday.


I think he means 10 days since he installed the Roamio itself, not the SW update. He mentions 20 days left of the 30 day trial period.


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## Elgato54 (Sep 21, 2010)

Elgato54 said:


> Got it last night. Hopefully it will improve stability.
> 
> Is this Roamio roll out the biggest mess yet?
> Reboots, lock ups, bad channels, error messages, poor tuning and Support seems to be completely clueless.
> ...


OK, noticed a new problem.

Yesterday we had both Hallmark channels 1130 and 1390. Now they are gone. Not sure if any other channels are missing.

Spent some time with Cox support and they say everything looks fine.
They unpaired and re-paired the cable card.

I rebooted the tuning adapter and the Roamio and forced a network connection.

Cox has no idea but suggested getting a new cable card.


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## pshivers (Nov 4, 2013)

About the same time as when the 20.3.8 update was applied for me on Friday the 13th I made one final adjustment to my MoCA Network. I was using the Tuning Adapter coax "pass through" to my Roamio Pro which is also my MoCA+Ethernet Bridge for the rest of the house supplying 3 Tivo Mini's and 1 Standard Roamio (waiting for a replacement MoCA Bridge from Actiontec for the STD Roamio).

Per recommendations I've read here and on other websites I installed a 2-way coax splitter to connect the Roamio Pro and the TA separately so the the Roamio Pro MoCA feed was no longer passing through the TA. Seems to have improved things a tad. I was showing speeds of 260-265 RX & TX PHY on the Mini's before the change and am now showing readings in the the 275-280 range. All devices are now working with zero error messages (No more C133 or C130 messages).

I did try re-enabling the 6th tuner on my Roamio Pro but that led to the V58 Unauthorized messages after a few hours of operation so I am back to only having 5 active but reliable tuners.

As soon as I have the STD Roamio back on Ethernet instead of wireless with a replacement MoCA bridge I will probably point one of the Mini's to it for tuning duties leaving only two Mini's using the Roamio Pro for tuning.

Even with all the little "Gotcha's" I've gone through getting this system installed and working over the past 2+ months I am very pleased with the performance and usability improvements I now have over the Charter Cable provided Cisco DVR's.

*Now if Charter would just upgrade the Firmware on my Cisco CableCards to 153.1101 all would be nearly perfect in my Tivo system...*

Thanks to everyone on the Board, (especially to TiVoMargret), that have contributed so many helpful posts to make our viewing enjoyment even better!


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

davezatz said:


> New apps, you say? Hmmm.


Here's to hoping for Amazon Prime and/or HBO!!


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## jwbelcher (Nov 13, 2007)

rainwater said:


> I've never had any cablecard/sdv issues with Charter since I got a Premiere (got it right at launch). I still don't have any issues tuning channels with the Roamio. I guess I am just lucky my cable headend is managed properly.





Dan203 said:


> Same here. Never had a problem with the tuning adapter. Although until recently I'm not sure they used it for many of the channels I actually watch. Now that they've added all these HD channels they're probably using it more, so I guess we'll see if I start to have the same problems others have had.


Who's your TA - Cisco or Moto?


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## stannenb (Nov 28, 2006)

I apparently got the 20.3.8 over the weekend and, coincident with that, the Tivo app on my iPad started to insist that my Tivo was not on the same wireless network. Since I have only one wireless network, and the Tivo and iPad were both on it prior to the upgrade (confirmed by forcing a connection) that doesn't seem to be true.

There are other oddities, too. The iPad app says the MAK from my Tivo is invalid. I can login with my Tivo account and get functionality.

[Insert a pause from some further debugging.]

What fixed this is uninstalling the iPad app, reinstalling it, trying to configure it for streaming, failing again with the same "not on home network problem", waiting (while typing this post), and trying again. This time, it succeeded. I have no idea if the uninstall/reinstall was the fix, or it just added enough time so that if I just waited all that time, it would have worked, too.

So, except for the couple of hours spent going in circles, I'm happy. I leave this here for anyone else who stumbles across the problem to let them know they're not alone.

Well, except I'm not. During the typing of that last paragraph, the iPad app twice stopped a download saying the Tivo had lost its connection to the internet. Both times, a retry started it again, but I'm left thinking something is less than stable in 20.3.8 connectivity.

[Sorry for the stream of conciousness problem report, but that seems to best capture what was going on.]


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## Pejota (Sep 5, 2013)

Just noticed that modifying the end time of an upcoming Season Pass recording still results in duplicate recordings.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Pejota said:


> Just noticed that modifying the end time of an upcoming Season Pass recording still results in duplicate recordings.


Yes, quite irritating...


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

Pejota said:


> Just noticed that modifying the end time of an upcoming Season Pass recording still results in duplicate recordings.


Still not experiencing this. Never have. [knocking on wood]


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Pejota said:


> Just noticed that modifying the end time of an upcoming Season Pass recording still results in duplicate recordings.


Yes still a problem, however if you alter the season pass not the individual recording you will not get duplicates. Not a great solution but better than getting duplicates that don't have all the program data.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

atmuscarella said:


> Yes still a problem, however if you alter the season pass not the individual recording you will not get duplicates. Not a great solution but better than getting duplicates that don't have all the program data.


Some details on the "new apps"...

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r28889436-TiVo-D.C.-TiVo-Winter-Update.



> New Pandora App (HTML 5 Version)
> 
> AOL On! (HTML 5 Version) with TechCruch App
> 
> ...


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## anthonymoody (Apr 29, 2008)

sbiller said:


> Some details on the "new apps"...
> 
> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r28889436-TiVo-D.C.-TiVo-Winter-Update.


Yawn. Amazon Streaming, Vudu, and hulu+ please.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

I already see Techcrunch and MovieFone on one of my Roamios. Maybe I'm blind but it seems like all MovieFone does is play trailers (and some with ads)?


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## sheshechic (Apr 14, 2012)

Since the update, my two Pros have been rebooting at least once a day. With all the headaches the Roamios have caused, I'm sick of them. I'm going to get rid of one and see if that helps at all. Maybe Pros or Roamios in general don't play well together?


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## TiVoMargret (Feb 3, 2008)

rainwater said:


> I already see Techcrunch and MovieFone on one of my Roamios.


TechCrunch and MovieFone should now be available on Roamio and Mini. If you don't see them in "Apps & Games" then make a connection to the TiVo Service, and after it is complete go to TiVo Central and press THUMBS DOWN - THUMBS UP - PLAY - PLAY. (This will restart the UI, and they will appear. Otherwise they will appear the next time the box reboots.)


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## TiVoMargret (Feb 3, 2008)

Last night we released new versions of the AOL.on and Web Video Hotlist apps.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

TiVoMargret said:


> Last night we released new versions of the AOL.on and Web Video Hotlist apps.


I was wondering why AOL.on got re-enabled on my Roamio. It would be nice if upgrades could respect the enable/disable setting.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

TiVoMargret said:


> TechCrunch and MovieFone should now be available on Roamio and Mini. If you don't see them in "Apps & Games" then make a connection to the TiVo Service, and after it is complete go to TiVo Central and press THUMBS DOWN - THUMBS UP - PLAY - PLAY. (This will restart the UI, and they will appear. Otherwise they will appear the next time the box reboots.)


Any reason why MovieFone and TechCrunch aren't under Find TV, Movies, & Videos with the rest of the video apps (along with My Video Providers)?


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## NYHeel (Oct 7, 2003)

I had another Netflix reboot on my Roamio last night. It seems that every time I exit the Netflix app by pressing the live TV button, I get a reboot.

Also, the sound was really terrible watching a show on Netflix. That same show on Netflix through my Apple TV sounded fine.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Since today it is taking about 30 seconds to view the details of a show in My Shows (click any recording in My Shows). I am getting the blue circle of death and then the show finally appears.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

TiVoMargret said:


> TechCrunch and MovieFone should now be available on Roamio and Mini. If you don't see them in "Apps & Games" then make a connection to the TiVo Service, and after it is complete go to TiVo Central and press THUMBS DOWN - THUMBS UP - PLAY - PLAY. (This will restart the UI, and they will appear. Otherwise they will appear the next time the box reboots.)


Could you please elaborate on what Thumbs-Down, Thumbs-Up, *RECORD*, *RECORD* does differently, if anything different at all? I noticed, long ago, it seems to do the same thing (reboot the HDUI), except it takes longer to finish doing so (or often seems to). Was it just in the same general area as Play, and given the same end-result, or is there something different?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

rainwater said:


> I already see Techcrunch and MovieFone on one of my Roamios. Maybe I'm blind but it seems like all MovieFone does is play trailers (and some with ads)?


Yeah how come the Moviefone app doesn't have show times?


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

TiVoMargret said:


> TiVo Roamio and TiVo Mini boxes (purchased from tivo.com or a retailer) were authorized for the 20.3.8 software update tonight.
> 
> Here are some of the changes:
> - now will retry tuning requests after a Tuning Adapter fails to respond


I am seeing that this is helping quite a bit, I have many Test SDV recordings daily, and not one has failed. Tuning to SDV channels now seems to take a bit longer, but the video finally tunes in. I have not had any tuning failures. (Knock on Wood)

Looking good so far.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

rainwater said:


> I was wondering why AOL.on got re-enabled on my Roamio. It would be nice if upgrades could respect the enable/disable setting.


It is annoying. I am pretty sure I went in and turned it off once before and it came back. Shouldn't it remember that I want it off? Strange.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Maybe the new app got a new internal ID and as such the setting didn't carry over? I noticed it only happened for AOL and not the Web Hot List app, so it doesn't seem to be a universal problem.


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## ustavio (Oct 19, 2013)

NYHeel said:


> I had another Netflix reboot on my Roamio last night. It seems that every time I exit the Netflix app by pressing the live TV button, I get a reboot.
> 
> Also, the sound was really terrible watching a show on Netflix. That same show on Netflix through my Apple TV sounded fine.


Try backing out to the Netflix menu and exit. At least get out of the show itself. Also try Clear and see if you still have a reboot.

Sound can be sporadic at times. Try hitting "info" when this happens and see if you're getting 1080 (when you're supposed to) or 480 (when you're supposed to).

I have found that backing out slowly helps mitigate reboots. Seems that the Roamio doesn't like zippy, clickity jumping around a lot.


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## bbbbb (Nov 12, 2013)

Could you please fix issue with moca+encryption resetting/disabling after every update? Every time tivo pushes an update my mini and roamio moca has to re-setup. It's a pain...


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

WiFi seems to have gotten worse with this update. I had to reboot my Roamio for the second time in the past few days to get network connectivity back.


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## anthonymoody (Apr 29, 2008)

rainwater said:


> Since today it is taking about 30 seconds to view the details of a show in My Shows (click any recording in My Shows). I am getting the blue circle of death and then the show finally appears.


Same here.

I was going through a list of shows that TiVo incorrectly records (it records repeats even though I have it set to New only; I know it's a guide/hgtv issue, but still frustrating). Anyway I was deleting them one by one. After the first 5 or 6, it started to behave normally.


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## dave13077 (Jan 11, 2009)

CoxInPHX said:


> I am seeing that this is helping quite a bit, I have many Test SDV recordings daily, and not one has failed. Tuning to SDV channels now seems to take a bit longer, but the video finally tunes in. I have not had any tuning failures. (Knock on Wood)
> 
> Looking good so far.


This has helped quite a bit but I still have had tuning failures. Not nearly as many as before so it is definitely a big step in the right direction.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

bbbbb said:


> Could _*you *_please fix issue with moca+encryption resetting/disabling after every update? Every time tivo pushes an update my mini and roamio moca has to re-setup. It's a pain...


Who is "you"? This isn't a TiVo company forum...


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## pshivers (Nov 4, 2013)

anthonymoody said:


> Yawn. Amazon Streaming, Vudu, and hulu+ please.


And NBA League Pass and I can sell my Roku 3!



c3 said:


> WiFi seems to have gotten worse with this update. I had to reboot my Roamio for the second time in the past few days to get network connectivity back.


I noticed that after the update also with the Roamio in my SIL bedroom. Signal strength was 75% (Good) but would not reconnect to my wireless router. Rebooted the Roamio and wireless connected immediately at 100% signal strength (Excellent). 

Interesting side-note, I was able to stream a Lakers game directly from my SIL's wireless Roamio to my wired Roamio Pro, No pauses, no buffering, no messages it couldn't do it because of the wireless connection...

I should be getting a new Actiontec MoCA adapter tonight so the SIL's Roamio will also be on the MoCA network once again.


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## mrizzo80 (Apr 17, 2012)

Anyone else have some apps that show up outside the "action-safe" area? TechCrunch (navigation text on the left hand side gets cut off) and the new AOL On (icons on the left hand side get cut off) both exhibit this on my TV. I think some of the older apps also have this, but I don't remember which ones.

Not a huge deal. Could just be my TV I suppose.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overscan#Overscan_amounts


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I'm seeing this too.

I wonder if I can set my TV sot show the whole picture?


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

jimmypowder said:


> Yeah I had zero and i mean zero issues with my Premiere.
> 
> The Roamio Plus ,on the other hand, has been a headache from streamin problems,c133 messages, lockups .
> 
> But it does boot up faster !


Same here.


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## tim1724 (Jul 3, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> I'm seeing this too.
> 
> I wonder if I can set my TV sot show the whole picture?


Yes, most TVs can be set to show all the pixels, at least on HD signals. I just had to adjust a TV today to do so (it's connected to a computer and the edges of a web page were cut off)

Every manufacturer labels it differently in their menus but if you poke around you should be able to find it.

I always do this. The only problem is that some channels broadcast garbage in the top or bottom scan lines. I think this is the main reason HDTVs still default to overscanning  to avoid displaying that crap. (I just put up with it. My girlfriend and I find it more annoying to have parts of the picture cropped out than to have the occasional flickering scanline on certain channels.)


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

Dan203 said:


> I'm seeing this too.
> 
> I wonder if I can set my TV sot show the whole picture?


More than likely, or in the majority of cases, the answer is yes. The following info is with 1080P native resolution TVs:

You set display area to "full pixel" on a Sony TV (old and new, alike). I have a Samsung TV that calls it "just scan", which does the same thing. The setting stops the TV from adjusting the overscan/underscan. On the Samsung, it is an option easier to get to, where you select "just scan" as opposed to 4:3/16:9. It forces the TV to just display the signal it receives natively, leaving the aspect ratio adjusting to the input device. I've seen it work with both brands of TV when the signal is through HDMI (always works), as well as component (not composite), so long as the input is a natively supported signal.

"Full Pixel" and/or "just scan" stops the TV from adjusting the display area, which results in the TV displaying the signal EXACTLY as it is sent to it. The downside of this is you will sometimes see a scan line of noise at the very top of the screen, that has black and white segments jumping around (this noise is macrovision, or other protection placed into the signal), and you may sometimes see tiny grey lines on each side of the screen, usually only when the sides of the picture are black, or very dark. These downsides are usually minimal distraction with any 1080 format, but more distracting if the format is 720P, which can be minimized by disabling all resolutions below 1080 (on the input device, itself).

When you force the TV to use the signal as-is, you also improve the quality of the picture, since you eliminate the reprocessing that happens when you allow overscan/underscan. The pixels end up exactly where they were meant to be, instead of being zoomed out of their native position, to eliminate the noise/bands insuring you don't see the noise around the edges.

If macrovision, and other protections, were not present, the TV manufacturers would use native display as the default (for best picture quality), as opposed to defaulting to insure that CP noise and light edges on the sides of dark scenes wouldn't be visible.

Hopefully this will help many people. I love that I can force a Roamio to only output my TVs native resolutions of 1080P/60 and 1080P/24. This, combined with forcing a native display of the signal, makes all my TVs seem like I just went out and bought new ones.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

nooneuknow said:


> Edit/Add Note: In the time it took me to type this out, somebody beat me to the punch, and punch-line.


It took you 4.5 hours to type that?


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

CoxInPHX said:


> It took you 4.5 hours to type that?


I guess I was wrong, now that you point that out.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

nooneuknow said:


> If macrovision, and other protections, were not present, the TV manufacturers would use native display as the default (for best picture quality), as opposed to defaulting to insure that CP noise and light edges on the sides of dark scenes wouldn't be visible.


I think it's actually the closed caption or PSIP data, because it appears on OTA channels which have no protection.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

slowbiscuit said:


> I think it's actually the closed caption or PSIP data, because it appears on OTA channels which have no protection.


Could be... I researched it on the AV-related forums, and came up with the same explanation from multiple sources, then did some Wikipedia research to help verify that I understood correctly.

But, I don't dispute that you've seen what you've seen. Perhaps that top line (or those top lines) are used for multiple uses, that assume nobody will see they are there. It would make sense to make use of that space, if available, for other uses.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

nooneuknow said:


> ........Perhaps that top line (or those top lines) are used for multiple uses, that assume nobody will see they are there. It would make sense to make use of that space, if available, for other uses.


It is, it's called the "vertical blanking interval" and that's where information/data is inserted in TV signals.


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## cosmicvoid (Oct 13, 2013)

HarperVision said:


> It is, it's called the "vertical blanking interval" and that's where information/data is inserted in TV signals.


You mean "used to be inserted" in analog NTSC, as digital signals that the Tivo handles do not have VBI.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

cosmicvoid said:


> You mean "used to be inserted" in analog NTSC, as digital signals that the Tivo handles do not have VBI.


I haven't seen them for a long time, but the digital signals used to have VBI signals in them back when analog was being converted to digital. With most signals now being digital along the entire path from encoding to playback, VBI I'd agree with you.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Yeah, I'm showing my age I guess, but I still do see the data when I have an under scanned image.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I found a way to set my TV to full pixel mode. Not sure why TVs still use an overscan area for 16:9.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

Dan203 said:


> I found a way to set my TV to full pixel mode. Not sure why TVs still use an overscan area for 16:9.


To help insure that the people who buy them don't return them, if they see the noise that would otherwise be pushed off the edge of the display area (in 16:9 mode w/auto overscan), and find it annoying/distracting.

Also, if you were in a showroom full of TVs, and some had a bezel obscuring that noise, in full-pixel/just-scan mode, you may be inclined to buy a TV that simply has a bezel that covers more of the LCD/LED panel, than one that doesn't obscure/overlap the panel.

You have to have the knowledge, as a buyer, to know what the deal is, and the TV makers can't count on that. So, they default to a way where unless the store changes each and every display's settings to full-pixel/just-scan, none of the display units will be showing the whole picture, in a true native mode.

It's still a downside, for those looking for the best picture, since the best picture isn't displayed with the added overscan to hide any potential noise along any edge.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

That "noise" is the VBI signal and only exists on analog stations. Since analog can't be 16:9 it makes no sense to make the 16:9 mode use over scan. 4:3 sure, but 16:9 can only come from a digital recording and digital recordings store captions digitally not as VBI. The only exception I can think of is DVDs. Some DVD players will convert the digital captions to VBI so the TV can display the captions. However most DVDs use subtitles, not NTSC captions, so this would be really rare.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Analog can be 16:9 if it's squeezed horizontally and then stretched back out in the display, aka anamorphic.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

This discussion is kind of drifting the thread off topic, but...

Unless Cox is falsely representing analog as 16:9 HD digital, then I have to "disagree" (if that's even the right word).

I see the top "noise" dancing around on HD stations, especially local rebroadcast stations, even more so on those that are broadcast in 720P, and often see slim, light, side edges when the picture is dark, or is dark at the sides. It doesn't matter which TV I use.

It's not bothersome enough for me to revert back to the default 16:9 overscan, but is for others I personally know. So, YMMV, etc.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

From what I recall from my broadcasting days early on in the digital transition then the VBI information was removed and embedded into the digital signal but it had to be regenerated at the receiving end for any older equipment that still may be in the loop. Maybe that is what is still going on?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

HarperVision said:


> Analog can be 16:9 if it's squeezed horizontally and then stretched back out in the display, aka anamorphic.


DVDs are the only thing that are anamorphic and they store captions digitally too. Although in some cases DVD players will create a VBI from the digital captions for support on older TVs. However very few commercial DVDs actually have real NTSC captions, most of them just use a subtitle stream instead.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

HarperVision said:


> From what I recall from my broadcasting days early on in the digital transition then the VBI information was removed and embedded into the digital signal but it had to be regenerated at the receiving end for any older equipment that still may be in the loop. Maybe that is what is still going on?


Could be. I don't know enough to really contribute any further, and I'd like to let the thread get back on-topic. The AVS forum seems to be the best venue for everybody to learn from, and ask questions in. It's getting pretty speculative, and old-tech vs. new-tech in this venue.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

nooneuknow said:


> This discussion is kind of drifting the thread off topic, but...
> 
> Unless Cox is falsely representing analog as 16:9 HD digital, then I have to "disagree" (if that's even the right word).
> 
> ...


Cox must be doing something weird then. HD does not use VBI. In fact HDMI does not even support VBI so even if it was in the stream your TV wouldn't know what to do with it on the HDMI input. Some cable boxes will generate a VBI signal and lay it onto the video if they're set to analog output (even component) but you shouldn't be seeing that with TiVo because it doesn't do that. It has an internal caption decoder, so it just decodes the captions itself and overlays them on the video stream.

Are you saying that with a TiVo, connected via HDMI, you're seeing the VBI flicker along the top edge and the faded edge down the left like you would on an old analog recording even on HD channels?


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

Dan203 said:


> Are you saying that with a TiVo, connected via HDMI, you're seeing the VBI flicker along the top edge and the faded edge down the left like you would on an old analog recording even on HD channels?


Yes, exactly. It also wouldn't be the first time I've discovered Cox providing "Fake HD", if that is the case, and likely won't be the last.

I just did a check, and channels that are cable-only tend to have nothing at all at the top, or even the thin light edges at the sides. If the channels are anything that any Cox area in my market could be pulling from OTA and rebroadcasting, the thin, light, edges and dancing top lines are there.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Maybe they have some old equipment in the loop for OTA. Something leftover from the analog days.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

Cox does have quite a few channels SD and HD that are not quite centered, there is a small black bar (or noise) on both the top and left side, when overscan is not used, at times it is quite distracting. All of the HBO HD channels have a black bar across the top.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> Cox must be doing something weird then. HD does not use VBI. In fact HDMI does not even support VBI so even if it was in the stream your TV wouldn't know what to do with it on the HDMI input. Some cable boxes will generate a VBI signal and lay it onto the video if they're set to analog output (even component) but you shouldn't be seeing that with TiVo because it doesn't do that. It has an internal caption decoder, so it just decodes the captions itself and overlays them on the video stream.
> 
> Are you saying that with a TiVo, connected via HDMI, you're seeing the VBI flicker along the top edge and the faded edge down the left like you would on an old analog recording even on HD channels?


Now that you've changed your overscan mode, spend some time scanning your channels(HD and SD), esp. the broadcast networks. I'm betting at least a couple will show the VBI bar. I see it on a few channels here in Comcast-land in S. NJ. Doesn't bother me enough to change the mode either, since if I do change it, I'll tend to forget about it until I notice something getting cut off like you and mrizzo80 did in the Opera Apps.

Speaking of which, I too was hoping to have favorites pinned outside the Opera Store app, on the Apps and Games Tivo menu. I don't think "I should go to the store" when I want to use something I've already 'purchased' (pinned, favorited, downloaded, installed, whatever  )


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Nope. Flipped through all the locals and no VBI on any of them. We did just go though a major all digital conversion here, so maybe they did before that and I just never noticed. 

But I guess if there are enough places that do still have that then it would explain why cropping the overscan is the default.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> DVDs are the only thing that are anamorphic and they store captions digitally too. Although in some cases DVD players will create a VBI from the digital captions for support on older TVs. However very few commercial DVDs actually have real NTSC captions, most of them just use a subtitle stream instead.


 Not true. Laserdiscs had anamorphic video and they were composite analog. I've also seen it on VHS tapes and other pro (BetacamSP, etc) tape formats. I've also come across anamorphic broadcast TV where it was in a 4:3 format on the display but you could clearly see it was 16:9 squeezed into it and you would stretch to full width for proper aspect ratio. The original Japanese NHK MUSE Hi-Vision (HDTV) was analog and also had the ability for anamorphic.

PS - although those are rare, mostly because there weren't enough widescreen AR displays back then.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

HarperVision said:


> Not true. Laserdiscs had anamorphic video and they were composite analog. I've also seen it on VHS tapes and other pro (BetacamSP, etc) tape formats. I've also come across anamorphic broadcast TV where it was in a 4:3 format on the display but you could clearly see it was 16:9 squeezed into it and you would stretch to full width for proper aspect ratio. The original Japanese NHK MUSE Hi-Vision (HDTV) was analog and also had the ability for anamorphic.
> 
> PS - although those are rare, mostly because there weren't enough widescreen AR displays back then.


Since you know so much about it, would you like to buy the Pioneer LaserDisc player I have? It's kind of neat. It has a tray-within-a-tray loading system that lets you eject the large tray, or a smaller one to play CDs with. I don't even remember how I got it, but I used to use it to play audio CDs (it still works for that, but I don't have any laserdiscs).


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

nooneuknow said:


> Since you know so much about it, would you like to buy the Pioneer LaserDisc player I have? It's kind of neat. It has a tray-within-a-tray loading system that lets you eject the large tray, or a smaller one to play CDs with. I don't even remember how I got it, but I used to use it to play audio CDs (it still works for that, but I don't have any laserdiscs).


Ummmmmm............no.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> That "noise" is the VBI signal and only exists on analog stations.


As others have said this is not correct, it still appears on some HD stations as well.


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

The old analog video sytems had to represent digital data as full white and full black peaks and valley in an analog signal on lines 12-21 of the video signal. This is what you are all referring to as the Vertical Blanking Interval. In that VBI were a whole slew of signals including Vertical Interval Timecode, Closed Captioning, LIDIA (Local ID Inserted Automatically), color and luminance reference signals and others. Analog TVs didn't bother stripping those signals out, they were just masked out by the bezel on your TV.

Unfortunately due to a variety of errors in older systems, often those signals would slip down to higher numbered lines that were meant for active video. Those can often make their way into shows converted to digital. This can also happen if an upconversion isn't done properly even if the VBI was correct on the original.

In the digital TV standards, there are still signals recorded in the equivilent of the VBI known as VANC, *V*ertical *Anc*illary Data Space, or even the *H*orizontal *Anc*illary Data Space. Tons of information, including multichannel audio, the dolby metadata, VITC, LIDIA, Timecode, etc. fall into those areas.

Now as the whole system is digital, your TV knows not to include the current versions of those signals on the display. On the other hand, the vestiges of the older signals are seen as nothing more than black and white dots on the top few lines of the active video raster. It's often up to professionals like me to wipe them out or zoom the picture up slightly to rid the raster of them.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

MScottC said:


> The old analog video sytems had to represent digital data as full white and full black peaks and valley in an analog signal on lines 12-21 of the video signal. This is what you are all referring to as the Vertical Blanking Interval. In that VBI were a whole slew of signals including Vertical Interval Timecode, Closed Captioning, LIDIA (Local ID Inserted Automatically), color and luminance reference signals and others. Analog TVs didn't bother stripping those signals out, they were just masked out by the bezel on your TV.
> 
> Unfortunately due to a variety of errors in older systems, often those signals would slip down to higher numbered lines that were meant for active video. Those can often make their way into shows converted to digital. This can also happen if an upconversion isn't done properly even if the VBI was correct on the original.
> 
> ...


Good write up! :up: I don't know if it's all correct (I'm not questioning if it is), but it seems very sound, and explains the differing experiences many will have.

Last night, before ever seeing this post, I tried the unidirectional zoom method to push the lines off the top, as well as moving the picture position up. It works, but just leads back to the whole reason this discussion spawned itself: People wanted to see the whole screen while in the Opera Store. These alternate workarounds work, but cut-off picture area when you go back to viewing things that don't require any workarounds (although, it may be better-liked by some, rather than letting the TV zoom the whole picture outwards). Still, good write-up.


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

I still see it occasionally on OTA recordings. Not in the shows themselves, but during some of the commercials.


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