# Fall 2008 Service Update



## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

Did a quick search on the forums. Didn't turn up anything on the Fall 2008 update.

I just got it last night / this morning. All I can say is Nice! They finally moved some of the menus around where it made sense. Showcases are now under the Video Downloads banner. 

Also, I'm not sure if this is due to the newest update, but there is now a new thing where when you pause a TV show, a banner (that you can optionally show or hide) shows up that asks you if you want to know more about the show you're watching. If you click on it, it takes you to the Swivel Switch screen about that show and you can look up info on it. I used it for PTI while I was watching it before I left for work this morning. Pretty nifty, if you ask me.

Not sure about anything else. Speed and access to menus seems good.


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

cool. Can't wait for the priority list.


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## LifeIsABeach (Feb 28, 2001)

Was this for a Series 2 or a Series 3/TiVo HD? If it is a Series 2, can you now view the TiVo Guide while watching a previously recorded program?


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## pcbrew (Mar 15, 2008)

Is the Netflix streaming option anywhere to be found?
(Or is that a switch they will throw sometime later?)


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## rsnaider (Apr 25, 2002)

No Netflix option, got the update last night as well. 

I think NetFlix is Series 3 only as the Series 2 boxes can not do encoding required for that as well as YouTube stuff.

At this point most of the newest features are not getting to Series 2 boxes. Might be time to finially upgrade......


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

sounds like the random rollout they do for new releases to gauge support volume and so forth.

Most likely for the S2 line from the description in the first post


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> sounds like the random rollout they do for new releases to gauge support volume and so forth.
> 
> Most likely for the S2 line from the description in the first post


Agreed. We will probably see a priority list up in about a week.


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## calstudios (Jul 16, 2008)

I got an invitation to joint the wide beta testing of the Fall 2008 update, but the email said don't do it if you've upgraded your internal hard drive. 

I'd like to check it out, but is anyone using the new update that has upgraded their drive?


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## mchief (Sep 10, 2005)

What is the software version for this update??


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## Stu_Bee (Jan 15, 2002)

calstudios said:


> I got an invitation to joint the wide beta testing of the Fall 2008 update, but the email said don't do it if you've upgraded your internal hard drive.


That sounds ominous. You'd think they'd want to beta test those that did upgrade as well.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

calstudios said:


> I got an invitation to joint the wide beta testing of the Fall 2008 update, but the email said don't do it if you've upgraded your internal hard drive.
> 
> I'd like to check it out, but is anyone using the new update that has upgraded their drive?


I have heard that before on beta invites people have shared in this forum. It is not a new thing. iwould not say it was ominous at all.

The updates have been applied to updgraded drives for a long time now.
I would put that language in the CYA category of warnings, probably some beta testers had to ship their units to TiVo for more detailed look at issues and then had problems over getting a return unit back without their upgraded drive.


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## rsnaider (Apr 25, 2002)

mchief said:


> What is the software version for this update??


9.3.2


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

rsnaider said:


> 9.3.2


 I guess that implies S2 boxes or earlier only as the S3 boxes are already on 9.4.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

there is/was a beta for S3 boxes recently that I had to decline because I have a non-standard eSata expansion drive.

Diane


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

The fall update for the series 3 boxes is still in beta. Thats about all I can say.


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## c.hack (Sep 8, 2004)

I installed the beta and it virtually destroyed my TiVo. All videos stutter, are pixelated and unwatchable. AVOID THE BETA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

That's one way to get out of the beta.


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## c.hack (Sep 8, 2004)

I e-mailed TiVo beta support last night about the problems. They have been unresponsive. I still have a $600 brick sitting in my home entertainment center.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

c.hack said:


> I e-mailed TiVo beta support last night about the problems. They have been unresponsive. I still have a $600 brick sitting in my home entertainment center.


You do realize that discussing it here violates the NDA, don't you?


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

rsnaider said:


> 9.3.2


Ugh. Is 9.3.x the end of the line for the Series 2?

Did you get any of the 9.4 features, like the ability to pull up the Guide without dropping to Live TV? Or to play back a whole folder at once?


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

Sorry for my lack of dropping in sooner. This is a Series 2 standalone TiVo. No DTs here. I also upgraded my old 40 gig HD to a 500 gig a couple of years ago. No problems so far, so I don't know what the discussion was about not participating in the update if you had an upgraded HD.

I haven't tested the Guide that people have been asking here. And no, there is no Netflix for this as that is only for S3. 

Anything else I should check for, if anyone wants to know? I'll also look up the full 9.3 # when I get home from work.


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## David_NC (May 1, 2008)

c.hack said:


> I installed the beta and it virtually destroyed my TiVo. All videos stutter, are pixelated and unwatchable. AVOID THE BETA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Don't necessarily condemn the new software - anytime the Tivo installs a new update, it places it on a portion of the hard drive that hasn't been used since the last software update. There are always going to be a few units that have a bad spot on the hard drive, but it didn't show up because that portion of the disk wasn't being used before the update.


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

ok TiVo its been almost a week. Give us the priority list already


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

BlackBetty said:


> ok TiVo its been almost a week. Give us the priority list already


We are currently in the period where we evaluate the impact of the rollout to the call center. This period has always run a _minimum _of two weeks.


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

I'll be waiting with baited breath.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

BlackBetty said:


> baited breath.


Anchovy Pizza again??


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Anchovy Pizza again??


I love anchovy Pizza!!! yummy.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

BlackBetty said:


> I'll be waiting with baited breath.


or is that beta'd breath?


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## westside_guy (Mar 13, 2005)

"bated" breath, as in held or abated. 

Signed Mr. Pedantic


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## ehardman (Feb 18, 2004)

c.hack said:


> I installed the beta and it virtually destroyed my TiVo. All videos stutter, are pixelated and unwatchable. AVOID THE BETA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Two posts? Hmmmm.


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## ehardman (Feb 18, 2004)

c.hack said:


> I installed the beta and it virtually destroyed my TiVo. All videos stutter, are pixelated and unwatchable. AVOID THE BETA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Two posts? Hmmmm.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Was that a mistake, or are you trying to be a wise guy?


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

ehardman said:


> Two posts? Hmmmm.


Insightful comment. You're on to him.

Isn't it obvious? He registered more than four years ago as a "sleeper troll", just so he could comment on this thread.


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

Sounds like the work of Al Qaeda.


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## spunderdog (Jun 7, 2005)

Every time we pause the TIVO, the blue "More about" banner covers up the on-screen subtitle text on the lower portion of the screen. Does not disappear like the "time remaining" bar does. Can this option be turned off? Swivel search is not one of our useful options and we used to not have to work with it. This new option is an irritant for those of us who do not want "More about" help.


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## javabird (Oct 13, 2006)

spunderdog said:


> Every time we pause the TIVO, the blue "More about" banner covers up the on-screen subtitle text on the lower portion of the screen. Does not disappear like the "time remaining" bar does. Can this option be turned off? Swivel search is not one of our useful options and we used to not have to work with it. This new option is an irritant for those of us who do not want "More about" help.


If you push the down arrow on your remote, the popup should go away. You can also make it disappear by advancing one frame using the Right-arrow key.


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## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

Is there a priority web site available yet from TIVO???


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

timstack8969 said:


> Is there a priority web site available yet from TIVO???


Not yet. But I'd be willing to bet it will be posted in this thread once it's available.


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## cramer (Aug 14, 2000)

Every beta request that has ever gone out has had similar wording. This is so any bugs or issue you report are the results of the new software and not you screwing around with the hardware.


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

we are at the 2 week mark now. priority page should be up asap.


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## etz (Sep 8, 2006)

spunderdog said:


> Every time we pause the TIVO, the blue "More about" banner covers up the on-screen subtitle text on the lower portion of the screen. Does not disappear like the "time remaining" bar does. Can this option be turned off? Swivel search is not one of our useful options and we used to not have to work with it. This new option is an irritant for those of us who do not want "More about" help.


I don't care for this either. The swivel search feature is already in the program details, so it's not needed here too. If I want to learn more about the program, then I'll go back to the program details and do my thing.

It's not as bad as advertising, but it does clutter the interface w/o adding any real value.


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

etz said:


> I don't care for this either. The swivel search feature is already in the program details, so it's not needed here too. If I want to learn more about the program, then I'll go back to the program details and do my thing.
> 
> It's not as bad as advertising, but it does clutter the interface w/o adding any real value.


Personally, I don't mind it. You can always press down to eliminate the appearance of the "Learn more about [program name]." It's kind of cool because I never think about Swivel Search and this is one way of getting people like me to use it.

Sorry, my appearances here have been erratic. I've been busy lately, but here's more information on what people wanted to know.

- There is NO ability to click to the Guide while watching a recorded showing. It goes straight to Live TV and brings up the Guide when you push the Guide button.

- There is NO batch recording capability. I was really hoping for this one.

- And the version number is now 9.3.2.P4-01-2-540

- As I've already mentioned, menu structuring is different for the main options, the restructuring moving stuff around to where it makes the most sense.

- Having had used this version for a couple of weeks now, the speed and responsiveness of menu selections is REALLY good, especially for someone who has a 500 gig HD in there.


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## larkor (Mar 3, 2008)

Try this

http://research.tivo.com/932priority/index.htm


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## cableguy763 (Oct 29, 2006)

Sweet! Thanks for the link.


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## LifeIsABeach (Feb 28, 2001)

tewcewl said:


> Sorry, my appearances here have been erratic. I've been busy lately, but here's more information on what people wanted to know.
> 
> - There is NO ability to click to the Guide while watching a recorded showing. It goes straight to Live TV and brings up the Guide when you push the Guide button.
> 
> ...


Are there any new features in the update or just menu restructuring and better speed? Sounds disappointing so far. Maybe the Series 2 isn't getting any more new features.


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

LifeIsABeach said:


> Are there any new features in the update or just menu restructuring and better speed? Sounds disappointing so far. Maybe the Series 2 isn't getting any more new features.


I'll look when I get home, but doesn't look like it. If you click on the link above for the priority list, this is what TiVo explains this update is:

"Thank you for your interest in the new TiVo Fall 2008 Service Update. *This service update reorganizes some of the TiVo Central menu choices, specifically adding a menu item for Video on Demand content from TiVo and it's partners. *If your DVR is connected to broadband, you'll be able to enjoy the latest movies, television shows, and web videos directly from this menu. You'll also find a new way to start Swivel Search anytime you pause a program!"

Emphasis mine.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

tewcewl said:


> I'll look when I get home, but doesn't look like it. If you click on the link above for the priority list, this is what TiVo explains this update is:
> 
> "Thank you for your interest in the new TiVo Fall 2008 Service Update. *This service update reorganizes some of the TiVo Central menu choices, specifically adding a menu item for Video on Demand content from TiVo and it's partners. *If your DVR is connected to broadband, you'll be able to enjoy the latest movies, television shows, and web videos directly from this menu. You'll also find a new way to start Swivel Search anytime you pause a program!"
> 
> Emphasis mine.


the priority list is clearly marked for series 2 models only.
They are not getting Netflix.
so that just refers to how they are changing the HME app for video downloads around - adding in some providers like Jaman most likely


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

etz said:


> I don't care for this either. The swivel search feature is already in the program details, so it's not needed here too. If I want to learn more about the program, then I'll go back to the program details and do my thing.
> 
> It's not as bad as advertising, but it does clutter the interface w/o adding any real value.


I agree. It's, as my wife put it, "sucky".


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

More pics here:
http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-11/tivo-preps-series2-update/

Thanks, tewcewl!


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

davezatz said:


> More pics here:
> http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-11/tivo-preps-series2-update/
> 
> Thanks, tewcewl!


what makes you think this is the last Series 2 update as you state in the article? I can see speculation of that but just wondering if it is speculation or based on something.


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

RoyK said:


> I agree. It's, as my wife put it, "sucky".


Hi Debbie Downer. I see you're at it again.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I can see speculation of that but just wondering if it is speculation or based on something.


Not based on anything other than knowledge of the time and expense required to engineer and QA any sort of system update (not exclusive to TiVo). And TiVo's starting a round of layoffs. So call it speculation. I do expect we'll continue to see updates fixing critical issues (like the time zone one on the S1) and obviously the Video on Demand menu item is designed to drive traffic and thus sales. Then again, there still may be more S2 platform units out there than HD/S3...


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

davezatz said:


> Then again, there still may be more S2 platform units out there than HD/S3...


I'm pretty sure there are. The HD/S3 updates have yet to require a priority list and are usually completed in a few weeks. The S2 updates have a priority list and can take over a month to complete. There were/are a lot more S2's out there to begin with and I'm not sure how many people actually retire their S2 when updating to a HD/S3.


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## barbeedoll (Sep 26, 2005)

javabird said:


> If you push the down arrow on your remote, the popup should go away. You can also make it disappear by advancing one frame using the Right-arrow key.


Yes, but it's annoying and an extra key push for me to remove something that is useless to me.

I pause to see things on the screen. This "feature" covers them up. Why not have something those who want swivel search can access with an extra keystroke and let those of us who want to watch the show watch in peace.

My swivel search needs are...oh, wait....I see no use to the feature. But I would think that I would want to access it sometime other than in the middle of a show I was watching.

GIVE ME A WAY TO PERMANENTLY SUPRESS THIS UNWANTED FEATURE!!!

Barbeedoll


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

BlackBetty said:


> Hi Debbie Downer. I see you're at it again.


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## JetPilot (Mar 9, 2003)

Just got update to 9.3.2. I'm really disappointed that Netflix was NOT one of the 5 choices offered.


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

JetPilot said:


> Just got update to 9.3.2. I'm really disappointed that Netflix was NOT one of the 5 choices offered.


I believe that was already covered. The S2 units will NOT get Netflix as the video processing capability for the S2 cannot do Netflix streaming. Someone can chime in with more of a technical explanation than I can give right now. But that's basically the gist of the thing.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

JetPilot said:


> Just got update to 9.3.2. I'm really disappointed that Netflix was NOT one of the 5 choices offered.


You shouldn't be too disappointed since the Netflix announcement was clear to note only TiVo HDs/S3s would get Netflix. It isn't possible for it to work on the S2 platform.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

barbeedoll said:


> Yes, but it's annoying and an extra key push for me to remove something that is useless to me.


when I pause to see something I used to push clear to remove the time bar.

pushing clear still removes the time bar and now also removes the new stuff.

I see no extra key push for this one...


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

The priority list for the Fall update for Series2 is now available.

SW for the HD models is imminent.


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

rainwater said:


> You shouldn't be too disappointed since the Netflix announcement was clear to note only TiVo HDs/S3s would get Netflix. It isn't possible for it to work on the S2 platform.


Correct, sorry. The Series2 chipset cannot support the video format for Netflix, so Netflix will never be available on Series2 units.


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## mazman (Nov 13, 2002)

TiVoJerry said:


> The priority list for the Fall update for Series2 is now available.
> 
> SW for the HD models is imminent.


Imminent as in a few days? Weeks?


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

rainwater said:


> You shouldn't be too disappointed since the Netflix announcement was clear to note only TiVo HDs/S3s would get Netflix. It isn't possible for it to work on the S2 platform.


Well, sure, it's _possible_. You'd just have to get Netflix to offer MPEG-2. Which I guess they think isn't worthwhile...


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

wmcbrine said:


> Well, sure, it's _possible_. You'd just have to get Netflix to offer MPEG-2. Which I guess they think isn't worthwhile...


And would require a massive amount of resources. Also don't forget it would require much more bandwidth to achieve similar results. I don't see Netflix doubling its resources in encoding for one piece of hardware.


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

mazman said:


> Imminent as in a few days? Weeks?


Imminent as in "I can't tell you until it's already started". 

If actually made an estimate, that would be the surefire way to jinx the possibility of hitting said deadline. While this may be as scientifically sound a mantra as "washing your car is better than a raindance for making it rain", I've learned the hard way not to be pinned down to a timeframe.

I'm also going to avoid black cats and walking under ladders until then, too.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

TiVoJerry said:


> Imminent as in "I can't tell you until it's already started".
> 
> If actually made an estimate, that would be the surefire way we would all hold you to it and remind you about it for the next year if the date was missed


FYP


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## rcurrlin (Dec 14, 2004)

By moving the TiVo Showcases to into the "Video on Demand" category, the few of us with TiVo Basic (no monthly fee) can no longer access this. No big deal, but you would think that TiVo would want to have the Showcase section accessible to as many consumers as possible since it includes paid advertising.

--roy (Toshiba SDH400)


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## Iluvatar (Jul 22, 2006)

rcurrlin said:


> By moving the TiVo Showcases to into the "Video on Demand" category, the few of us with TiVo Basic (no monthly fee) can no longer access this. No big deal, but you would think that TiVo would want to have the Showcase section accessible to as many consumers as possible since it includes paid advertising.
> 
> --roy (Toshiba SDH400)


I see Showcases under Music, Photos and More, not under Video on Demand. Although I'm not certain that basic subscribers can access that area either.


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## rcurrlin (Dec 14, 2004)

Iluvatar said:


> I see Showcases under Music, Photos and More, not under Video on Demand. Although I'm not certain that basic subscribers can access that area either.


Correct. TiVo Basic does not offer the Music, Photos and More area. There's not even a banner for it.

--roy


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

rcurrlin said:


> By moving the TiVo Showcases to into the "Video on Demand" category, the few of us with TiVo Basic (no monthly fee) can no longer access this. No big deal, but you would think that TiVo would want to have the Showcase section accessible to as many consumers as possible since it includes paid advertising.
> 
> --roy (Toshiba SDH400)


TiVo button + 9 should take you there I would think.


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## freeze12 (Aug 21, 2006)

RoyK said:


> I agree. It's, as my wife put it, "sucky".


I totally agree "SUCKY"! Just got the update and what a waste of an update.Tivo:You could have taken some time and done a lot better as it looks like You did basically nothing:down:


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## Whittaker (Oct 11, 2004)

Got the Fall Upgrade last night.

Now the "SELECT-PLAY-SELECT-PAUSE-SELECT" to set the progress bar to disappear after less than a second, does not work.

Great.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

I thought you could always disappear the progress bar by pressing Play (when the TiVo is playing) or some key or other when the TiVo is paused. Not worth getting upset over...


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## LoREvanescence (Jun 19, 2007)

pdhenry said:


> I thought you could always disappear the progress bar by pressing Play (when the TiVo is playing) or some key or other when the TiVo is paused. Not worth getting upset over...


Hitting the clear key gets rid of it as well It works when it is paused or playing:up:


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## Whittaker (Oct 11, 2004)

pdhenry said:


> I thought you could always disappear the progress bar by pressing Play (when the TiVo is playing) or some key or other when the TiVo is paused.


Doesn't help in fast forward/reverse or slow.



> Not worth getting upset over...


Actually, to me, nothing in this upgrade was worth losing that short cut.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> when I pause to see something I used to push clear to remove the time bar.
> 
> pushing clear still removes the time bar and now also removes the new stuff.
> 
> I see no extra key push for this one...





pdhenry said:


> I thought you could always disappear the progress bar by pressing Play (when the TiVo is playing) or some key or other when the TiVo is paused. Not worth getting upset over...





LoREvanescence said:


> Hitting the clear key gets rid of it as well It works when it is paused or playing:up:


yep, this one is clearly covered. I always just used clear when I wanted anything on the screen to go away like info. It is fastest and always will work.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

wmcbrine said:


> Well, sure, it's _possible_. You'd just have to get Netflix to offer MPEG-2. Which I guess they think isn't worthwhile...


texas grill chef posted that he heard from netflix that its also using windows drm. And that the upgrade for the hd units would allow them to work with wdrm.

So-
sorry if this is common knowledge but...
is it possible to use wdrm with mpeg2?


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

three's always some that like things and others that dont.

I was at a seminar the other day about indoor air quality- got to talking about 'acceptable temperature' and interestingly the consensus is that for temperature the best you can hope to achieve is 90&#37; of the people in your building don't complain it's too hot or to cold. Think about it, you are on a floor with 100 people- there's probably 5 complaining it's too hot and 5 complaining it's too cold.

I wonder what tivo's magic number is for new features? only 10% complain? 5%, 20%?

I'm sure they will never say but it would be fun to speculate.

Me for one- I've got S3's so no fun for me yet but from the screen shot above I like the idea of the swivel search bar. I like when everything is linked to everything else. I enjoy that paradigm. And as plenty have pointed out if i want to pause to look at something- myself, i'm conditioned to hit pause and then clear anyway.


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

I got the update for my series 2 and I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but when I tried to transfer a program from the 2 to my HD (a process that has never failed) it hung and I ended up restarting by turning my UPS off. I won't try it again for a long while.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

MichaelK said:


> texas grill chef posted that he heard from netflix that its also using windows drm. And that the upgrade for the hd units would allow them to work with wdrm.
> 
> So-
> sorry if this is common knowledge but...
> is it possible to use wdrm with mpeg2?


 Don't think so. I think the need for DRM is what drove Netflix to go with WMV3/VC1 Microsoft in the 1st place given that DRM mechanism was already in place for WMV. Otherwise mpeg4 container with H.264 video and AC3 audio would have been a better choice that could provide multi-channel audio format that most receivers can decode. As it is now for audio they are stuck with WMA and while you WMAPro can provide multi-channel audio there are very few receivers that can handle it, so that's why right now even the Netflix HD streams are 2-channel stereo only.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Whittaker said:


> Doesn't help in fast forward/reverse or slow.


You can just hit clear to make the bar go away.


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## ADent (Jan 7, 2000)

davezatz said:


> I do expect we'll continue to see updates fixing critical issues (like the time zone one on the S1)


They initially did not fix the SA S1 daylight saving time issue. Somebody later posted a hack and they ended up using that with permission - two reboots in the spring and fall to reset the clock.

BTW the S1 DTiVo did get a true DST fix.

---

You figure they have to stop developing new features for the S2 at some point since it is not the future of the company. Now seems like a good time to me.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Now seems very premature to me, with more S2's in service than S3/HD's, brand new S2's still for sale on tivo.com, and unresolved bugs still present in the latest S2 software.

I just got 9.3.2 on my 540. I thought for sure, this time, they'd fix the HME bug that crashes the TiVo on two of their own demo apps. But no. Very disappointing.

The new menu location for Video on Demand is sensible. The new lumping together of "Music, Photos & Showcases" is annoying, especially since most of the things in that menu aren't any of the three. Does anyone even look at Showcases anymore? Why not just get rid of it? At least they're pushing it to the side, instead of continuing to give it an unwarranted main menu slot of its own.

I'd noticed that, a few weeks ago, "Showcases and TV Guide" became just "Showcases", without a software update.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

I received this update on my Series 2 today. I hate to sound like a broken record, but the 16:9 bug that was introduced a few versions ago is STILL not fixed apparently. 16:9 transfers from the PC are shown on my 16:9 screen with black bars on top and bottom of the screen, as if I was using a 4:3 TV. Apparently the 16:9 setting on the TiVo is without any effect whatsoever.

I'm guessing this will never be fixed, which is pretty damn annoying since I would love to use it as a sort of "media extender" since I have a lifetime sub on it, and I don't record shows on it very much anymore.

Do any of the new download sources that were announced with this update use 16:9 material? I'm guessing not. Or maybe TiVo assumes nobody uses Series 2 with 16:9 TVs.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

MickeS said:


> Or maybe TiVo assumes nobody uses Series 2 with 16:9 TVs.


That's probably a better guess.


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## Stu_Bee (Jan 15, 2002)

I'm not quite sure how that "More About" banner made it past beta testing.
I find it annoying as well. Yes, you can hit an extra button and make it go away. But that means hitting an extra button every frikin time you pause. It's not even really revenue generating..which means Tivo thought it was useful to us.

I guess people can't comment on the beta testing period, but it would be interesting to know if Tivo sends surveys to their testers of whether they find the new features : (a) ValueAdded or (b) PainInTheAss. Maybe they've already made up their minds by the time BetaTests are rolled out and nothing can stop it unless it crashes boxes.

I'm still in the camp that Tivo could add an "Advanced Settings" option on the boxes where we users can decide whether we want certain things to be shown or not.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

not being argumentative but want to understand your point of view-

why do you see an added banner as a 'painintheass'?

Obviously i haven't played with it yet but the only time i imagine it being annoying is when i want to pause and see something specific on the screen- i hit clear then anyway. So I dont see the difference really for usabiluty?

Is the gripe that it takes up more of the screen so you are more apt to have to hit clear?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

It is rare that I even use pause. When I do, it is usually because I am leaving the room. I can't imagine how this would bother me.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

MichaelK said:


> not being argumentative but want to understand your point of view-
> 
> why do you see an added banner as a 'painintheass'?
> 
> ...


 I would be bothered by it, mostly because given recent trends this sets a precedent for more stuff to be added in pause screen and perhaps other trickplay screens, namely advertisements. Slowly but surely we are getting surrounded by ads in Tivo.


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## Whittaker (Oct 11, 2004)

mattack said:


> You can just hit clear to make the bar go away.


Oh, sure ya can.

I was just fast forwarding and stopping and fast forwarding and stopping, looking for something, and when I would reach over with my thumb to clear the progress bar, I passed up what I was looking for.

Sucks big time.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

moyekj said:


> I would be bothered by it, mostly because given recent trends this sets a precedent for more stuff to be added in pause screen and perhaps other trickplay screens, namely advertisements. Slowly but surely we are getting surrounded by ads in Tivo.


if that's what you think that I could see the beef.

Myself, I dont think they would go that way but clearly others have concern.

But honestly even if they did and i could still hit clear I'm not sure I would be offended.

Didn't replaytv years ago put up ads as a screen saver for pause after a certain period of time out? I think that's a pretty good idea actually.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> Didn't replaytv years ago put up ads as a screen saver for pause after a certain period of time out? I think that's a pretty good idea actually.


I would much rather a banner ad than Live TV - basically anything without sound - they could have it highlight the option to make go away(or else use clear) and then have other options to go and playa video or go to a screen with more details


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

MichaelK said:


> Didn't replaytv years ago put up ads as a screen saver for pause after a certain period of time out? I think that's a pretty good idea actually.


 No ReplayTV never had any ads which is one of the many things that made them so great. In fact they went out of their way to piss off advertisers with auto commercial skipping feature. There is a screensaver for ReplayTV that displays a bouncing around ReplayTV logo over a dark background if you pause for too long or sit at any other non-video screen for too long without any interaction with the RTV. I think that's a lot better than Tivo's obsession with timing out to Live TV. I never understood why no screensaver on Tivo which most other DVRs have.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Interesting that there is just one post that finds the banner useful. Personally I've used swivel search exactly twice since it has been available and neither time did the subject have anything to do with the program being watched.

A quick link to swivel search for the current program would seem to me to make more sense if it was from the info banner which has the function of providing info for the current program in the first place.

I think that TiVo must have a thing for their "wonderful" swivel search feature, must feel that it is being under used and trying to make it more obvious. I side with those who want an option to keep it out of their faces - just like you can turn off the (IMHO obnoxious) sounds.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

Whittaker said:


> Oh, sure ya can.
> 
> I was just fast forwarding and stopping and fast forwarding and stopping, looking for something, and when I would reach over with my thumb to clear the progress bar, I passed up what I was looking for.
> 
> Sucks big time.


Does the new "More Info" banner show up during fast-forward/rewind too? I thought it was shown only on pause?


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

gonzotek said:


> Does the new "More Info" banner show up during fast-forward/rewind too? I thought it was shown only on pause?


Just on pause.


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## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

I'm disappointed with the this update. Very little if any new and useful features were added. Was anything even fixed with this update? Why bother with it? Waste of time and resources on Tivo's part. Should have used those resources on finding and fixing the broken suggestions weeks ago.

What was added with this update? Besides menu restructuring? And annoying info pop up during paused video? Should have tried and make swivel faster. It's too slow to be "convenient". 

Anything useful and not annoying?

Someone please tell me.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

RoyK said:


> Just on pause.


Thanks


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## Stu_Bee (Jan 15, 2002)

MichaelK said:


> not being argumentative but want to understand your point of view-
> why do you see an added banner as a 'painintheass'?


No problem. I'm sure some people will not be annoyed by it.

- It's a visual block/popup that is really unnecessary. How often do you need to go to swivel..I don't think it warrants such a prominent position as it currently does with almost every pause.
- If you watch sports you might find it more annoying than if you are just a TV Series viewer.
- Maybe I could program my universal remote's pause button to do a pause -> down macro to hide it each time...but should I have to?


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Stu_Bee said:


> ...
> - Maybe I could program my universal remote's pause button to do a pause -> down macro to hide it each time...but should I have to?


Thanks for the suggestion! That works with my Harmony 1.


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## Toni (Nov 23, 2002)

Just throwing in my voice as one who hates the "More about" nag on pause. I don't use Swivel and won't. I don't want any other distractions on the screen when I hit pause, and while it may seem like a minor thing to just click the down button, it is a nuisance and an annoyance. There should be a universal setting to remove it.


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## Toni (Nov 23, 2002)

Whittaker said:


> Got the Fall Upgrade last night.
> 
> Now the "SELECT-PLAY-SELECT-PAUSE-SELECT" to set the progress bar to disappear after less than a second, does not work.
> 
> Great.


This too. Yes, I can hit clear. When this trick worked, I didn't have to. Upgrade = inconvenience.


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## barbeedoll (Sep 26, 2005)

barbeedoll said:


> Yes, but it's annoying and an extra key push for me to remove something that is useless to me.
> 
> I pause to see things on the screen. This "feature" covers them up. Why not have something those who want swivel search can access with an extra keystroke and let those of us who want to watch the show watch in peace.
> 
> ...


HURRAY! If you call TiVo you can opt out of these intrusive pop-ups on the screen. Tell them it you want to opt out of promotional messages and also the facts about programs (connection to swivel search) banner that appears when you press pause.

YIPPEE!!!

Barbeedoll


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Malcontent said:


> I'm disappointed with the this update. Very little if any new and useful features were added. Was anything even fixed with this update? Why bother with it? Waste of time and resources on Tivo's part. Should have used those resources on finding and fixing the broken suggestions weeks ago.
> 
> What was added with this update? Besides menu restructuring? And annoying info pop up during paused video? Should have tried and make swivel faster. It's too slow to be "convenient".
> 
> ...


 Well if nothing else the huge bug affecting some people where To Do List would just go empty and things would not record is supposed to be fixed in this release, and a similar patch for S3/HD units is also supposed to go out in their Fall update. That serious problem going on for several months now is discussed in this thread:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=405090
That alone makes this update necessary and not a "waste of time".
(P.S. I was never personally affected by above bug but sympathize with those who were).


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## Toni (Nov 23, 2002)

barbeedoll said:


> HURRAY! If you call TiVo you can opt out of these intrusive pop-ups on the screen. Tell them it you want to opt out of promotional messages and also the facts about programs (connection to swivel search) banner that appears when you press pause.
> 
> YIPPEE!!!
> 
> Barbeedoll


Thanks for this info. I called TiVo CS to opt out, and the rep went ahead and made the switch for me, but he did not know anything about the "More About" issue on pause.

He said it was set universally on my account for all three of my TiVos, even the ones that haven't gotten the Fall Update yet. But on a manual connection to the TiVo service, it didn't pick up the change, so... hopefully it will in the next couple of days.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

barbeedoll said:


> Tell them it you want to opt out of promotional messages and also the facts about programs (connection to swivel search) banner that appears when you press pause.


Promotional messages? Does that mean no more banners on the main menu? Or what?


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## Bodie (Mar 12, 2003)

mazman said:


> Imminent as in a few days? Weeks?


Imminent as in it arrived on one of my S3's yesterday. Now if only it would come to the other one so I could transfer recordings again... Jerry, maybe you could whisper in someone's ear that when one box on an account is updated that the rest of them are? Just a thought.


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## [email protected] (Dec 1, 2007)

Bodie said:


> Imminent as in it arrived on one of my S3's yesterday. Now if only it would come to the other one so I could transfer recordings again... Jerry, maybe you could whisper in someone's ear that when one box on an account is updated that the rest of them are? Just a thought.


It hit one of my HD TiVos today. Transferring recordings works just fine, though - I'm currently watching a recording made on the updated machine (albeit recorded before the update to software version 11.something) on the other machine (which is still running version 9.4-01).


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## ursine1 (May 1, 2001)

Got the update. I'm not seeing the new "More about..." banner at all. Which is most excellent, since I think the feature is basically useless, and the implementation most likely annoying. I never opted in for Swivel Search, so hopefully that's why I'm not getting it.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

You don't have to opt in to use swivel search, despite their nagging.

I didn't see the "More about" banner at first, but I did later. (This is with 9.3.2.) In fact, it came up on a show I was transferring via pyTivo, about which the TiVo knew nothing. So it just popped to a generic swivel search screen when I selected it.


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## a68oliver (Jul 15, 2000)

I now have version 11 something on my S3 and did not see the "more about" on the programs I watched this evening.


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## Emillion (Oct 19, 2007)

MickeS said:


> I received this update on my Series 2 today. I hate to sound like a broken record, but the 16:9 bug that was introduced a few versions ago is STILL not fixed apparently. 16:9 transfers from the PC are shown on my 16:9 screen with black bars on top and bottom of the screen, as if I was using a 4:3 TV. Apparently the 16:9 setting on the TiVo is without any effect whatsoever.
> 
> I'm guessing this will never be fixed, which is pretty damn annoying since I would love to use it as a sort of "media extender" since I have a lifetime sub on it, and I don't record shows on it very much anymore.
> 
> Do any of the new download sources that were announced with this update use 16:9 material? I'm guessing not. Or maybe TiVo assumes nobody uses Series 2 with 16:9 TVs.


Tivo HD - experiencing the exact same problem. 16:9 video clips and movies play with black bars top/bottom. Thought to be a pyTivo issue but the mpgs/vobs don't even get transcoded by ffmpeg. What could it be? Is anybody out there able to play transferred 16:9 videos full screen on a 16:9 monitor ?


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## Laserfan (Apr 25, 2000)

ursine1 said:


> I never opted in for Swivel Search, so hopefully that's why I'm not getting it.


Same here, so I expect I'll not have to deal with new banners either.

I understand TiVo having all these Web features, given the wide-reach of broadband these days, because they want & need to differentiate their service from garden-variety DVRs and homebrew PCs (HTPCs).

But if you have "slow" Satellite service like I do, all these features do is slow-down TiVo interminably, so I opt-out.

I do have Home Networking turned-on, and I WISH I could turn-off that feature that wants me to look at YouTube and Rhapsody and Net365 and all that other junk, but apparently there's no way out of that. Really slows down the appearance of that menu, when all I want to do is get to moyejk's (w/wmcbrine) wonderful tivostream Video Streamer.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

a68oliver said:


> I now have version 11 something on my S3 and did not see the "more about" on the programs I watched this evening.


It looks like HD users are starting to join the thread now. I guess the update for those units must be starting to go out. I expect that what gets put into the HD units is going to be completely different going forward from what we are seeing in our S2s. The version number split pretty much proves that. Maybe TiVo is experimenting on us S2 users to see how well we accept the pause button before throwing it into a future HD load. Either that or you will start seeing it in a day or so.


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## Toni (Nov 23, 2002)

It's been a day since I called TiVo to opt out of Swivel and promotional nags. Two manual connections to TiVo later, and one scheduled connection completed, and I am still seeing the "More About" banner.

So far I am not impressed.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

ursine1 said:


> ... I never opted in for Swivel Search, so hopefully that's why I'm not getting it.


I never opted in for swivel search either and I'm getting the banner on pause on all my S2s.

:down:


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## a68oliver (Jul 15, 2000)

Here is an article from Tivo on Swivel Search and Opt In/Out.

http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport...withtivofeatures/Universal_Swivel_Search.html

It says that Swivel Search is available from the pause menu on S2 but doesn't mention it on S3 or HD.

Opt in can apparently be done by the remote, but opt out requires a phone call.


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## Toni (Nov 23, 2002)

a68oliver said:


> Here is an article from Tivo on Swivel Search and Opt In/Out.
> 
> http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport...withtivofeatures/Universal_Swivel_Search.html
> 
> ...


And even then, apparently, you don't actually get opted out. :down:


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

a68oliver said:


> Here is an article from Tivo on Swivel Search and Opt In/Out.
> 
> http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport...withtivofeatures/Universal_Swivel_Search.html
> 
> ...


Well, based on what it says there, all "Opt Out" does is make it even more likely that you will not be interested in what pops up on your screen. It won't stop the banner.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

moyekj said:


> No ReplayTV never had any ads which is one of the many things that made them so great. In fact they went out of their way to piss off advertisers with auto commercial skipping feature. There is a screensaver for ReplayTV that displays a bouncing around ReplayTV logo over a dark background if you pause for too long or sit at any other non-video screen for too long without any interaction with the RTV. I think that's a lot better than Tivo's obsession with timing out to Live TV. I never understood why no screensaver on Tivo which most other DVRs have.


i believe you are incorrect about "never"- if i recall they had a trial deal with coke so there were coke ads at pause.

quick google pops up this link (of many that mention replaytv and coke ads during pause) :
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb5942/is_/ai_n24011058



> Groundbreaking deals between ReplayTV and Coca-Cola and TiVo and Best Buy will be emulated by scores of other businesses in the months ahead. When ReplayTV users hit "pause," ads for Coke appear on the screen


might have died from an uproar but replay wasn't some anti-ad, it's apprantely just that they ran out of money and went out of business before they got to trying all the different ways tivo has.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

RoyK said:


> Interesting that there is just one post that finds the banner useful. Personally I've used swivel search exactly twice since it has been available and neither time did the subject have anything to do with the program being watched.
> 
> A quick link to swivel search for the current program would seem to me to make more sense if it was from the info banner which has the function of providing info for the current program in the first place.
> 
> I think that TiVo must have a thing for their "wonderful" swivel search feature, must feel that it is being under used and trying to make it more obvious. I side with those who want an option to keep it out of their faces - just like you can turn off the (IMHO obnoxious) sounds.


good points- why not add it to the banner- they seem to ignore the banner- it took them forever to add CC toggling on the banner.

I think your thoery about the "wonderful" thing that no one uses makes sense. Especially since they probably want us all to use it so we can find addtional content to BUY that they get a cut of.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Laserfan said:


> Same here, so I expect I'll not have to deal with new banners either.
> 
> I understand TiVo having all these Web features, given the wide-reach of broadband these days, because they want & need to differentiate their service from garden-variety DVRs and homebrew PCs (HTPCs).
> 
> ...


i wonder if someone found the server addresses for the various things and you could just block certain servers by your router? just a thought


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

RoyK said:


> Interesting that there is just one post that finds the banner useful.


OK then, here's one more - I don't know if I find it useful, but I do know that I want TiVo to promote this money-generating function more. It's crazy to hide it away under a sub-menu.



RoyK said:


> I think that TiVo must have a thing for their "wonderful" swivel search feature, must feel that it is being under used and trying to make it more obvious.


Well, duh.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

MickeS said:


> OK then, here's one more - I don't know if I find it useful, but I do know that I want TiVo to promote this money-generating function more. It's crazy to hide it away under a sub-menu.


And one of the ways to do that is to induce the customer to change their privacy settings to allow TiVo to collect personally identifiable information.

With this new 'feature' put in your face one click to see what it is all about and then another (the default) on the swivel search screen and you have signed away your privacy.


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## Laserfan (Apr 25, 2000)

MichaelK said:


> i wonder if someone found the server addresses for the various things and you could just block certain servers by your router? just a thought


Yeah I was thinking the same thing, and indeed maybe there's just a SINGLE IP (one of Tivo's servers) that is serving-up these items.

Somebody needs to find this so we can block it.


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## dtplink (Oct 13, 2004)

Version 11 has made a holy mess out of my system. No amount of reboots, soft or hard can get me more than one channel at a time. Acquiring Channel Information takes forever. All I get for channels is the bouncing message that there is no cable signal coming in. I foolishly called Cox/SD to ask for help and then checked the TiVo system info and found that I'm a lucky beta tester for this piece of junk upgrade.

*UPDATE: It took three hard reboots to get back to normal working.*


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## Toni (Nov 23, 2002)

barbeedoll said:


> HURRAY! If you call TiVo you can opt out of these intrusive pop-ups on the screen. Tell them it you want to opt out of promotional messages and also the facts about programs (connection to swivel search) banner that appears when you press pause.
> 
> YIPPEE!!!
> 
> Barbeedoll


It's been since Friday that I called to Opt Out of Swivel/promotional nags. Many manual connections to the TiVo service, and several scheduled ones completed, and I still get the "More About" nag on pause.

Either they didn't opt me out, or it's not a solution to the "More About" problem.


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## bidderman9 (Nov 8, 2007)

I just received a second Fall Service update on both of my Series 2 TiVo's. Was there an issue with the first update?


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

I was REALLY hoping that the stupid FF bug I've had since the last service "update" would be fixed with this one, but apparently not.

This is REMARKABLY annoying.

For those not experiencing this wonderfulness on the S3, hitting the FF button once on EITHER OF my S3's turns off the audio but the machine continues to play at normal forward speed, although every few seconds it will speed up, and then drop back down to normal speed again. To see this in all its glory, just tune to a station with a bottom crawl like CNN, and watch how the crawl speeds up and slows down at random. The second and third pushes of the FF button seem to work OK, although the fast forward images seem to be significantly choppier than a few software versions ago. 

In fact, in general, the ballistics of the machine in both fast forward and rewind have not been quite right since a few software versions ago, but this FF thing is REALLY annoying.

I did call CS once to complain, and was told that my S3 had become defective and needed repair. I asked the person what the chances were of BOTH my S3's becoming defective in EXACTLY THE SAME WAY AT THE SAME TIME, RIGHT AFTER AN UPGRADE, and was met with big silence.

How difficult is it to find and fix an ACTUAL DOCUMENTABLE BUG like this in a YEAR?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

dougdingle said:


> I was REALLY hoping that the stupid FF bug I've had since the last service "update" would be fixed with this one, but apparently not.


Are you certain that 2x FF speed actually works on your provider *today* with the older software?

That isn't a bug that affects most. That issue is caused by (a) a combination of how TiVo does its fast forward in the current software and (b) how your provider re-encodes / re-compresses its channel. Basically, your provider is eliminating the information from the picture stream that TiVo uses to fast forward at 2x speed. With my provider, 2x speed works fine.



dougdingle said:


> To see this in all its glory, just tune to a station with a bottom crawl like CNN, and watch how the crawl speeds up and slows down at random. The second and third pushes of the FF button seem to work OK, although the fast forward images seem to be significantly choppier than a few software versions ago.


I can FF 1x on CNN all day and it always fast forwards at a constant rate.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

moyekj said:


> No ReplayTV never had any ads which is one of the many things that made them so great.


Not true. ReplayTV did ads during pause but never really sold many. Don't confuse failure with lack of intent.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_/ai_65127226
http://www.replayfaqs.com/4DCGI/Detail_FAQ_Display?ID=39&Session=DOEXSPCMNCEVMTY


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## Pseudotsuga (Mar 15, 2008)

Toni said:


> Just throwing in my voice as one who hates the "More about" nag on pause. I don't use Swivel and won't. I don't want any other distractions on the screen when I hit pause, and while it may seem like a minor thing to just click the down button, it is a nuisance and an annoyance. There should be a universal setting to remove it.


I agree. While I may use the swivel search on a rare occassion, the banner pop-up on each pause takes up far too much screen space. A setting to turn this feature on/off would be great.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

dougdingle said:


> I was REALLY hoping that the stupid FF bug I've had since the last service "update" would be fixed with this one, but apparently not.
> 
> This is REMARKABLY annoying.
> 
> ...


I've read about this bug before and noticed it today watching football on FOX OTA.
It's rare that I use ffx1 but when I do, I find it annoying as well.
Sad to hear it didn't get fixed. 


bidderman9 said:


> I just received a second Fall Service update on both of my Series 2 TiVo's. Was there an issue with the first update?


It was most likely the _feature_ update that adds CinemaNow and Jaman movie rentals.


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## barbeedoll (Sep 26, 2005)

Pseudotsuga said:


> I agree. While I may use the swivel search on a rare occassion, the banner pop-up on each pause takes up far too much screen space. A setting to turn this feature on/off would be great.


Search for barbeedoll to see how to turn this off...or just look earlier in the thread.

Barbeedoll


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## Toni (Nov 23, 2002)

barbeedoll said:


> Search for barbeedoll to see how to turn this off...or just look earlier in the thread.
> 
> Barbeedoll


Except it didn't fix the problem at all. See below.



Toni said:


> It's been since Friday that I called to Opt Out of Swivel/promotional nags. Many manual connections to the TiVo service, and several scheduled ones completed, and I still get the "More About" nag on pause.
> 
> Either they didn't opt me out, or it's not a solution to the "More About" problem.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

bkdtv said:


> That isn't a bug that affects most. That issue is caused by (a) a combination of how TiVo does its fast forward in the current software and (b) how your provider re-encodes / re-compresses its channel. Basically, your provider is eliminating the information from the picture stream that TiVo uses to fast forward at 2x speed. With my provider, 2x speed works fine.


Is this something that's actually documented somewhere? Because I have to say that as a video engineer for 35 years, and someone dealing with all forms of HD and many forms of compression for a living, this is the first I've heard of this.

Fast forward on a disk recorder normally consists of simply skipping frames as the data is read off the disk and fed to the decoder. The faster the data is requested, the more frames skipped. There are no markers in the stream which assist with this, save for the identification of frames, which, if eliminated, would make images unwatchable. Also, if there was some kind of required information which was missing, it seems to me that none of the FF shuttle modes would work properly.

I should have mentioned that my supplier is Time Warner from the Eagle Rock office in the Los Angeles area.



> I can FF 1x on CNN all day and it always fast forwards at a constant rate.


I should have been more specific: the problems occurs mostly on HD content, rarely on SD content/channels. Is becomes MOST annoying when watching live sports which are on delay through the TiVo buffer and I want to nudge things along a bit.


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## barbeedoll (Sep 26, 2005)

Toni said:


> It's been since Friday that I called to Opt Out of Swivel/promotional nags. Many manual connections to the TiVo service, and several scheduled ones completed, and I still get the "More About" nag on pause.
> 
> Either they didn't opt me out, or it's not a solution to the "More About" problem.


Try a cold reboot. (Unplug the power supply to your TiVO, wait 1 minute and then plug it back in.) That should do it.

Worked on 11 TiVos for me.

Barbeedoll


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## barbeedoll (Sep 26, 2005)

Toni said:


> It's been a day since I called TiVo to opt out of Swivel and promotional nags. Two manual connections to TiVo later, and one scheduled connection completed, and I am still seeing the "More About" banner.
> 
> So far I am not impressed.


Unplug the power to your TiVo...wait 1 minute and then plug it back in. That should make the "opt out" work, meaning no more banners when you pause a live or recorded show.

Barbeedoll


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## Toni (Nov 23, 2002)

Rebooting did the trick. Thank you Barbeedoll.


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

dougdingle said:


> There are no markers in the stream which assist with this, save for the identification of frames, which, if eliminated, would make images unwatchable.


I don't know what specific rates the 3 TiVo FF speeds map to off the top of my head, but it seems like if they re-encode the MPEG2 with longer GOPs they could space out the MPEG2 I frames such that the delta between them would result in playback speeds faster than the 1x FF rate but still be close enough together to cope with faster rates. I'm speculating, but that's consistent with bkdtv's explanation.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

dougdingle said:


> Is this something that's actually documented somewhere? Because I have to say that as a video engineer for 35 years, and someone dealing with all forms of HD and many forms of compression for a living, this is the first I've heard of this.
> 
> Fast forward on a disk recorder normally consists of simply skipping frames as the data is read off the disk and fed to the decoder. The faster the data is requested, the more frames skipped. There are no markers in the stream which assist with this, save for the identification of frames, which, if eliminated, would make images unwatchable. Also, if there was some kind of required information which was missing, it seems to me that none of the FF shuttle modes would work properly.
> 
> ...


i dont have a clue. although i do know that tivo doesn't fast forward and rewind like "normal" devices- that's a major bit of their patents and part of the reason that DISH just lost their battle in the courts- tivo indexes the data someone- but i have no idea if the provider can encode in such a way to effect the index.

BUT- a quick way to check would be- can you ff like normal on OTA programs? If it's just cable HD that is fouled up then it would seem plausible that it is something in the way your cable provider encodes things.


----------



## Toni (Nov 23, 2002)

Toni said:


> Rebooting did the trick. Thank you Barbeedoll.


I spoke too soon.

The reboot did the trick -- for about an hour. Then, on the same show I was watching when I tested to be sure the "More About" had stopped, it started happening again. I have paused the show several times while I am doing other things around the house, and now the "More About" nag is back. :down:


----------



## Georgia Guy (Feb 21, 2003)

Just another vote on the "more about" bar on pause. I hate it. First thing I did was try to find a method of turning it off, with no luck.

So, after reading through this thread I see that some say it can be removed by actually having to call Tivo and opting out. Then, rebooting. Next I read some people saying that does not work, some saying it does.

Sure is a lot of trouble having to work to remove an unwanted "improvement" by someone who never opted-in for swivel in the first place, and is totally uninterested in doing so.

Tivo....please give us a menu selection to turn it off. Then all the people who say having to hit an extra button every time they hit pause is no big deal can keep it, and those of us who hate it can remove it permanently.


----------



## SeanTivo (Sep 13, 2006)

dougdingle said:


> I was REALLY hoping that the stupid FF bug I've had since the last service "update" would be fixed with this one, but apparently not.
> 
> This is REMARKABLY annoying.
> 
> ...


----------



## worachj (Oct 14, 2006)

Whittaker said:


> Got the Fall Upgrade last night.
> 
> Now the "SELECT-PLAY-SELECT-PAUSE-SELECT" to set the progress bar to disappear after less than a second, does not work.
> 
> Great.


I don't use the Swivel search and could care less about using it, but *I miss the quick hide of the progress bar*.

Bring back *"SELECT-PLAY-SELECT-PAUSE-SELECT"*.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

worachj said:


> I don't use the Swivel search and could care less about using it, but *I miss the quick hide of the progress bar*.
> 
> Bring back *"SELECT-PLAY-SELECT-PAUSE-SELECT"*.


I don't think that any of the backdoor codes are sacred unfortunately. If they get in the way of something else they want to do then I think the codes are toast. About the closest to untouchable is 30 second skip and while i think that's pretty secure I think it's far from guaranteed to work forever.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

I would bet that more than swivel search will at some point end up in this pause function. IF you really do not like it then you may need to consider opting out of TiVo DVRs


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## Finearts (Dec 29, 2007)

Besides the other flaws in the Fall 2008 Service Update rollout, I'd like to point out that TIVO also can't differentiate correctly between " its " (the possessive) and " it's " (the contraction of "it is", as in: "And now .... it's ... Monty Python's Flying Circus." 

From the Fall 2008 TIVO Service Update message on my S2 unit:
"This service update reorganizes some of the TiVo Central menu choices, specifically adding a menu item for Video on Demand content from TiVo and it's partners."

*sigh*


----------



## Toni (Nov 23, 2002)

Finearts said:


> Besides the other flaws in the Fall 2008 Service Update rollout, I'd like to point out that TIVO also can't differentiate correctly between " its " (the possessive) and " it's " (the contraction of "it is", as in: "And now .... it's ... Monty Python's Flying Circus."
> 
> From the Fall 2008 TIVO Service Update message on my S2 unit:
> "This service update reorganizes some of the TiVo Central menu choices, specifically adding a menu item for Video on Demand content from TiVo and it's partners."
> ...


Okay, that just hurts.


----------



## gdbick (Nov 25, 2008)

To get rid of, just hit the down arrow in the circular button at the top of your remote.

Voila!

If you are a masochist and begin to miss the banner, just hit the up arrow to bring it back.

Shudder.


----------



## Da Goon (Oct 22, 2006)

Finearts said:


> Besides the other flaws in the Fall 2008 Service Update rollout, I'd like to point out that TIVO also can't differentiate correctly between " its " (the possessive) and " it's " (the contraction of "it is", as in: "And now .... it's ... Monty Python's Flying Circus."
> 
> From the Fall 2008 TIVO Service Update message on my S2 unit:
> "This service update reorganizes some of the TiVo Central menu choices, specifically adding a menu item for Video on Demand content from TiVo and it's partners."
> ...


are you f*cking kidding me! Im cancelling tivo tomorrow! Idiots! They cant do anything right!


----------



## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

MichaelK said:


> BUT- a quick way to check would be- can you ff like normal on OTA programs? If it's just cable HD that is fouled up then it would seem plausible that it is something in the way your cable provider encodes things.


Wish I could. I live in a complete RF black hole canyon. No OTA of any sort - no analog, no digital, no ATSC, no nothin'.

I do get AM skip from Texas at night .


----------



## btrotter (Dec 16, 2005)

one sequence macro and the $$$$ more about thing is gone!


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

MichaelK said:


> BUT- a quick way to check would be- can you ff like normal on OTA programs? If it's just cable HD that is fouled up then it would seem plausible that it is something in the way your cable provider encodes things.





dougdingle said:


> Wish I could. I live in a complete RF black hole canyon. No OTA of any sort - no analog, no digital, no ATSC, no nothin'.


I'm strictly OTA and I experience the ffx1 bug as well.


----------



## LADYBUGBLUE2002 (Sep 7, 2003)

Question to those that have a Series 2 with the Fall update...the Video on Demand area...what is supposed to be here? Is it youtube, amazon and jarman?

Here in Canada we have not had youtube or amazon so I am wondering what this is supposed to be or if I am missing something.


----------



## Stu_Bee (Jan 15, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I would bet that more than swivel search will at some point end up in this pause function. IF you really do not like it then you may need to consider opting out of TiVo DVRs


Seems to be a solution you present to most people that don't like a Tivo function. I think it maybe a bit premature to drop Tivo just a few days after the rollout. They have pulled back prior 'features' before, but unfortunately most of those were due to bugs rather than annoyances.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Series 2 can't receive YouTube.

I see Amazon, Walt Disney Studios and Jaman on my S2s.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Stu_Bee said:


> Seems to be a solution you present to most people that don't like a Tivo function. I think it maybe a bit premature to drop Tivo just a few days after the rollout. They have pulled back prior 'features' before, but unfortunately most of those were due to bugs rather than annoyances.


yep, the only feature I have everheard of them pulling back simply because of annoyance was the interstitial ads that came up between menus way back when, I was not a subscriber at the time so no idea ithey were loosing actual subs at the time or not.

in the 4 years I have been a TiVo subscriber I have not seen TiVo ever pull back a function simply due to annoyance or complaints. I usually make the "drop the sub then" post as it is likely the only thing a Corporation that has a fiduciary responsibility to make moeny for the public shareholders will always have to pay attention too. People can complain all they want but it amounts to little.

In this forum perhaps it can be called the FSI approach


----------



## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Since pressing "down" makes the banner go away, it seems TiVo could avoid a lot of irritation simply by making that persistent. The first time you press down the banner should go away. The next time you pause you have no banner, just the tiny note at the bottom to press "up" for extras.

But then, why not just make that stuff come up if you press "Info" while paused?


----------



## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

nrc said:


> Since pressing "down" makes the banner go away, it seems TiVo could avoid a lot of irritation simply by making that persistent.


+1



> _But then, why not just make that stuff come up if you press "Info" while paused?_


+2

Sadly I think both of these proposals will be rejected on the grounds that they need to put this crap in front of users' faces as much as possible, to try to get them to use it.

Making swivel search work better would do more towards that end... for example, have it not [re]start the search _immediately_ after every keystroke. :down:


----------



## Toni (Nov 23, 2002)

Is anyone "official" replying ANYWHERE?? I opted out of Swivel and I am so incredibly sick of pausing to check something on the screen and having that stupid "More About" come up. It's an annoyance and I'd really like some kind of official response from someone, somewhere, about all these complaints.


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Toni said:


> Is anyone "official" replying ANYWHERE?? I opted out of Swivel and I am so incredibly sick of pausing to check something on the screen and having that stupid "More About" come up. It's an annoyance and I'd really like some kind of official response from someone, somewhere, about all these complaints.


Good luck....


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

wmcbrine said:


> ...Making swivel search work better would do more towards that end... for example, have it not [re]start the search _immediately_ after every keystroke. :down:


on my box at least if i "type" fast enough it doesn't behave that way.

If i can quickly punch in a few letters it will wait before it starts searching.

end game though I think they need to cache some of the data on the box somehow- it's just painfull for it to go on the web. If it was quicker I would use swivel seach all the time instead of the local search just so i only had to use one.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

someone always has to say it- i gues it's my turn- 

there's another thread hear today about how yet again tivo lost money this past quarter (if you take away the 100+million that dish had to pay).

I'm sure if someone came up with a viable business model for tivo that didn't involve selling us stuff besides the service then they would listen. They haven't really made money trying this way yet.

It's tough to imagine that tivo exists in 5 or 10 years with loss after loss after loss.

So i really dont think they have much option except to try and increase their revenue anyway they can. That or raise the price to like $50 bucks a month and really gouge the folks that would pay anything. Raising the price to 20 bucks a month would probably chase away so many subs that it would hardly add to the bottom line.

So how do you guys expect to have tivo service in a few years without getting this "crap"?


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> ....
> 
> So how do you guys expect to have tivo service in a few years without getting this "crap"?


I don't know but ticking off the customer every time he hits the pause button sure isn't going to do a lot for their bottom line.....


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

RoyK said:


> I don't know but ticking off the customer every time he hits the pause button sure isn't going to do a lot for their bottom line.....


completely agreed.

But I can only assume they figure this is the lessor of many evils. With Evil number 1 being they go out of business at some point.


----------



## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Toni said:


> Is anyone "official" replying ANYWHERE??


The official avenue for support is the technical support telephone number (only).


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

MichaelK said:


> But I can only assume they figure this is the lessor of many evils. With Evil number 1 being they go out of business at some point.


Absolutely. Customers simply didn't respond with enough on-going revenue back before TiVo started focusing on enhancing its revenue streams. So, as a reflection of its obligations to its owners, they began doing so. Without enhanced revenue streams *did not work*, so going back to that model isn't defensible. With enhanced revenue streams may not work either. There may be nothing to justifies the existence of TiVo as an independent stand-alone DVR maker.


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## Toni (Nov 23, 2002)

bicker said:


> The official avenue for support is the technical support telephone number (only).


Yes, they are the ones who I spoke to in order to opt out of Swivel and get rid of the the More About nag. Since it obviously did not work, I was hoping that TiVoJerry or someone else in an official capacity would weigh in here as they often do.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

It could happen. When they do help out, here on TCF, they do so on their own volition; TCF isn't an official source of support, and two question marks after the inquiry as to whether they're responding to such issues "ANYWHERE" (all caps) made it seem like that wasn't clear. I'm sorry for any confusion.


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## Toni (Nov 23, 2002)

bicker said:


> It could happen. When they do help out, here on TCF, they do so on their own volition; TCF isn't an official source of support, and two question marks after the inquiry as to whether they're responding to such issues "ANYWHERE" (all caps) made it seem like that wasn't clear. I'm sorry for any confusion.


No you're right, my exuberance came of frustration. I'd just been watching the morning news and had the "More About" come up when I paused again, so I was a little grumpy, heh.


----------



## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

It's just Tivo inching further down that slippery slope trying to find the line between keeping/pissing off loyal customers.
If we don't start speaking up through proper channels, we won't see the end of it.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

steve614 said:


> If we don't start speaking up through proper channels, we won't see the end of it.


No. You won't see the "end to it" until people actually are willing to pay a lot more for what you want.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

bicker said:


> When they do help out, here on TCF, they do so on their own volition; TCF isn't an official source of support


I was under the impression that when TiVo employees such as TiVoJerry post here (particularly when over signatures stating their TiVo job title), they are doing it as part of their job, and in fact, TiVo employees are prohibited from posting here without management approval. It may not be official "support", but they *are* speaking as TiVo employees. Thus the cautiousness and carefully worded statements.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

CharlesH said:


> ... as part of their job ... It may not be official "support"


You've contradicted yourself. As I said, it is up to them to decide if and when they'll offer assistance. As far as I know, it is not part of their job to provide technical support through this venue.


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## Stu_Bee (Jan 15, 2002)

bicker said:


> As far as I know, it is not part of their job to provide technical support through this venue.


But it probably is part of some job function to provide a line of communication to customers via this forum, but probably not under the title of 'support'. When one Tivo Inc person leaves this Forum, another always comes in and introduces him/herself as the replacement.

Anywho.....They usually lie pretty low when a new release comes out.....hoping the 'pissed off' eventually calm down regarding the latest bug/pesky features. Can't blame them really....what they going to say? "Yes we know it is annoying, but management wanted it" ? Would that make us feel better?

However, having said that, I still think it is important to voice our dissatisfaction of any Tivo experience. Current customers promoting it to others is what sells a lot of units.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

BTW, I haven't seen it mentioned yet, and I'm not at my Tivo to provide a specific detail, but there's a _new_ cosmetic bug in the new update. (My S3 has it, my Tivo HD doesn't.)

The program info often shows ,. in the output. I think it's always in categories of the show. Here's a made up example.

2008 World Series of Poker
Sports, Poker, . Main Event.

So their code is presumably just putting a , after each item, including the last item.. actually, I guess it puts a "comma space" because you see a blank there too.

Pretty sloppy if you ask me. I sure wish there were an official way to report bugs... (There are another 5-10 I routinely run into, though I haven't checked whether any or all are fixed in the newest update.)


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Stu_Bee said:


> But it probably is part of some job function to provide a line of communication to customers via this forum, but probably not under the title of 'support'. When one Tivo Inc person leaves this Forum, another always comes in and introduces him/herself as the replacement.


What are you referring to? I have never seen that.

Pony, as a marketing manager, does have an "official" role that implies his involvement here. The engineers likely do not, and as such we should never act as if they're supposed to be spending their time here helping us.



Stu_Bee said:


> However, having said that, I still think it is important to voice our dissatisfaction of any Tivo experience.


Voicing dissatisfaction here before you've gone through the tech support process to try to get satisfaction is disingenuous.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

when Richard Bullwinkle left he introduced pony.
When some of the engineers have left (like in the directivo forum) they have made similar introductions- I'm surprised you never have seen that.

On more then one occasion pony or others have made mentions that they are given very specific instructions about what to post from the higher ups and/or lawyers. Either what they were permitted to say, what they couldn't discuss, or how they were asked to word things. 

So clearly there it is some form of official communication here. Unlike many other places where employees post on their own time they have disclaimers in their posts or sigs about how they are personal views and they don't represent their employers necessarily.

I don't think it's their full time job but clearly they are permitted to post here during business hours- I doubt you will see pony making 20 posts during a business day on some other online forum so it is excepted part of their work.

anyway- some of them have posted all of the above in their own words so if you dont beleive us then search might help you confirm if you would like


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

MichaelK said:


> when Richard Bullwinkle left he introduced pony.
> When some of the engineers have left (like in the directivo forum) they have made similar introductions- I'm surprised you never have seen that.


I simply haven't. From how you describe it, it doesn't appear to have any intersection with standard TiVo tech support, so I wouldn't have seen such introductions, since I don't have a DirecTiVo.



MichaelK said:


> On more then one occasion pony or others have made mentions that they are given very specific instructions about what to post from the higher ups and/or lawyers. Either what they were permitted to say, what they couldn't discuss, or how they were asked to word things. So clearly there it is some form of official communication here.


Rather, there are *limitations* on what employees can say here. Pony is an exception, like I said. He's in Marketing. But AFIAK, TCF participation is not part of any tech guy's job; they are only subject to *restrictions *on their participation here.

Perhaps one of these TiVo tech guys will chime in and clear this up, entirely.

Perhaps not, since, I suspect, it isn't their job.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

RoyK said:


> I don't know but ticking off the customer every time he hits the pause button sure isn't going to do a lot for their bottom line.....


"The customer"? More like "a small subset of customers".

It doesn't tick me off. When I want to check something on screen, I already have to click "Clear" in 99% of the cases. But almost every time I pause it is to leave the show and come back, so the extra "More about" bar doesn't matter there anyway.

The same people who hate this probably hate the yellow star. Just cancel your subs and get over it. Money talks.


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## etz (Sep 8, 2006)

hard to cancel a house full of lifetime boxes. They already got the money, but then changed the product for the worse.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

MickeS said:


> ...
> 
> The same people who hate this probably hate the yellow star.


In my case at least that's true.



MickeS said:


> Just cancel your subs and get over it. Money talks.


And if you don't like reading postings critical of TiVo's implementation of certain features I suggest you get over it or find another forum to read.


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## worachj (Oct 14, 2006)

worachj said:


> I don't use the Swivel search and could care less about using it, but *I miss the quick hide of the progress bar*.
> 
> Bring back *"SELECT-PLAY-SELECT-PAUSE-SELECT"*.


I got the quick hide of the progress bar to work. 

During pause you need to hit the down arrow to remove the more about box, then hit play and enter the quick hide code *SELECT-PLAY-SELECT-PAUSE-SELECT"*.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

MickeS said:


> The same people who hate this probably hate the yellow star.


Oh, for the days when it was just a yellow star! Now we get the gigantic banner with graphic.


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## tubbo (Nov 3, 2008)

rsnaider said:


> No Netflix option, got the update last night as well.
> 
> I think NetFlix is Series 3 only as the Series 2 boxes can not do encoding required for that as well as YouTube stuff.
> 
> At this point most of the newest features are not getting to Series 2 boxes. Might be time to finially upgrade......


If I were to upgrade to a Series3, could I upgrade without having to purchase another subscription? I got a lifetime subscription back 3-4 years ago and I was wondering if it would carry over with another box.


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## aus1ander (Sep 17, 2004)

tubbo said:


> If I were to upgrade to a Series3, could I upgrade without having to purchase another subscription? I got a lifetime subscription back 3-4 years ago and I was wondering if it would carry over with another box.


Lifetime is tied to the box, not the person. So, unfortunately, the answer is no.

If you had a month-to-month subscription, this can be transferred to a new box, especially useful if you have a grandfathered plan from several years ago (like discounted MSD at 6.95/mo).


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

tubbo said:


> If I were to upgrade to a Series3, could I upgrade without having to purchase another subscription? I got a lifetime subscription back 3-4 years ago and I was wondering if it would carry over with another box.


Lifetime subscriptions aren't transferable (at least not for free). There was a $299 transfer fee, but as that's the same rate for a new lifetime subscription you might as well just get that.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

RoyK said:


> And if you don't like reading postings critical of TiVo's implementation of certain features I suggest you get over it or find another forum to read.


Looks like both sides of this issue will have to "get over" reading postings critical of their perspective, or "find another forum to read".

  

Anyone looking for an un-rebutted soap-box from which to project their own perspective in exclusivity is in the wrong place.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

The thing is that some have gone on and on and on for years about how awful the advertising it. There are things about my TiVo that I don't like too and I voice my displeasure about, but nothing that I would just complain and complain and complain about and STILL keep using the product.

If you don't like advertising on your TiVo, shouldn't you realize by now that it's clear that it's not going away, and you will have to either accept it or find an alternative (which paradoxically might mean the ads WILL go away, if they lose enough customers because of the ads)?


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## Laserfan (Apr 25, 2000)

MickeS said:


> If you don't like advertising on your TiVo...


Maybe someday Tivo will offer, like many *websites* for example, a PREMIUM service (subscription) which, for a buck-or-three more, will provide an ad-free interface.

For those whose underwear sticks up there whenever they see an advertisement!


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

MickeS said:


> "The customer"? More like "a small subset of customers".


How did you determine that?

Jim H.


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## Bodie (Mar 12, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> It hit one of my HD TiVos today. Transferring recordings works just fine, though - I'm currently watching a recording made on the updated machine (albeit recorded before the update to software version 11.something) on the other machine (which is still running version 9.4-01).


Hmmm, well there goes that theory...


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

jhimmel said:


> How did you determine that?


I suspect he did so like folks "determined" most of the other comments of the same order in this thread (or on these forums, for that matter).


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

bicker said:


> I suspect he did so like folks "determined" most of the other comments of the same order in this thread (or on these forums, for that matter).


Yeah, I made it up to fit my argument, as is customary.


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## LADYBUGBLUE2002 (Sep 7, 2003)

pdhenry said:


> Series 2 can't receive YouTube.
> 
> I see Amazon, Walt Disney Studios and Jaman on my S2s.


Is that the only things you get? I don't get anything but I doubt in Canada we get....the thing is the free videos like cnet are no longer available to me as well as onetruemedia. The listing does tell me that I need to be on a home network, which I have and to have my privacy status is not opt out. I have opted in so it should work. My brother has not opted in but he gets the videos...so what gives?

Anyone else having this problem?


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## bojiro (Jan 23, 2007)

etz said:


> I don't care for this either. The swivel search feature is already in the program details, so it's not needed here too. If I want to learn more about the program, then I'll go back to the program details and do my thing.
> 
> It's not as bad as advertising, but it does clutter the interface w/o adding any real value.


I hate this as well! Ads cannot be far behind!


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## alansh (Jan 3, 2003)

My 542 has the menu option now for downloads, but going into it just gives a screen saying that I need to be opted-in (I am) and have a broadband connection (I do). Downloads are also enabled in my TiVo account.

I can get Amazon downloads via Swivel Search, just not from the main menu option.


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## barbeedoll (Sep 26, 2005)

Toni said:


> I spoke too soon.
> 
> The reboot did the trick -- for about an hour. Then, on the same show I was watching when I tested to be sure the "More About" had stopped, it started happening again. I have paused the show several times while I am doing other things around the house, and now the "More About" nag is back. :down:


Just off the phone with TiVo. It was only my Series 2s that started with 140 000 that wouldn't take the "opt out" permanently. They tell me that this should be fixed with the new update in about a week and a half.

I hope this is true. Meanwhile, the fix worked for the other 9 TiVos and it is a delight.

Barbeedoll


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## Toni (Nov 23, 2002)

barbeedoll said:


> Just off the phone with TiVo. It was only my Series 2s that started with 140 000 that wouldn't take the "opt out" permanently. They tell me that this should be fixed with the new update in about a week and a half.
> 
> I hope this is true. Meanwhile, the fix worked for the other 9 TiVos and it is a delight.
> 
> Barbeedoll


Thanks, I hope that's true too. The TiVo I tried it with is a 140. The other two aren't in front of me so I'm not sure what they are, but hopefully it will be fixed soon and it won't matter.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RoyK said:


> In my case at least that's true.
> 
> And if you don't like reading postings critical of TiVo's implementation of certain features I suggest you get over it or find another forum to read.


oh I find them quite something to read. They certainly have made an impact on the TiVo staff, that is for sure 

if only I had a *clear* button on my PC that worked like the one on my TiVo.

PS - this fits my line since if I pause to go to the bathroom or whatever I have little concern what is on the screen. If I paused to see the screen I always hit clear next to remove the green time status banner and that still works just fine


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

ZeoTiVo said:


> PS - this fits my line since if I pause to go to the bathroom or whatever I have little concern what is on the screen. If I paused to see the screen I always hit clear next to remove the green time status banner and that still works just fine


Mine also. I tried the quick clearing of the progress bar as a way to banish the pause menu button, and it works, but I found that to be more annoying than just letting it show. I like having the progress bar show during fast forward more than I like making the pause menu button not show up. At least it is an option for those who truly object. Even if they put ads here, I don't see it being an issue for me.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> ... If I paused to see the screen I always hit clear next to remove the green time status banner and that still works just fine


I suppose you can keep a towel handy on the couch for when the dog pees on your leg too but it's a lot less annoying if it doesn't happen in the first place.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RoyK said:


> I suppose you can keep a towel handy on the couch for when the dog pees on your leg too but it's a lot less annoying if it doesn't happen in the first place.


if I found my dog doing things I did not like I would first try and train him better but after a year of the dog peeing on me I would send him to a farm or whatever and certainly not keep him in my house while constantly complaining about the peeing.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Or just make excuses for it.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> if I found my dog doing things I did not like I would first try and train him better but after a year of the dog peeing on me I would send him to a farm or whatever and certainly not keep him in my house while constantly complaining about the peeing.


Good point.


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## wedenton (Jun 13, 2002)

RoyK said:


> Or just make excuses for it.


Good point.



It looks like only broadband connected boxes are afflicted with this onerous crap so going back to dial-up should eliminate the problem. Works for me.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RoyK said:


> Or just make excuses for it.


what excuse have I made?


----------



## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> what excuse have I made?


None, in this context. That comment was non-sequitur.


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## m.s (Mar 8, 2007)

It's no big deal. IMHO, TiVO has done a good job of keeping advertising, which keeps subscription costs down, unobtrusive. Having a bit of screen covered up when on pause is not big deal.

And of course, it's all within the contract terms every TiVO user agreed to when they signed up. You had the choice and opportunity to refuse those terms.

So quit'yer'*****in. Find a better alternative if it really bothers you (and please tell the rest of us what you came up with).


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## Toni (Nov 23, 2002)

m.s said:


> So quit'yer'*****in.


Thanks, but no.

I'm glad it works for you, and I'm particularly glad that you expressed your opinion here. The only way for TiVo to know what their customers want and don't want is by all of us expressing our opinions in a place where they will hear it. This forum, their official forums, and their CS reps, are great places for getting that message across.

That's exactly why these forums and threads exist. So I appreciate your ability to express your opinion to TiVo that all of this works for you. In the same vein, all of us who have the opposite opinion are also going to express our own views.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Toni said:


> That's exactly why these forums and threads exist. So I appreciate your ability to express your opinion to TiVo that all of this works for you. In the same vein, all of us who have the opposite opinion are also going to express our own views.


I'm all for expressing an opinion. But eventually there comes a time to put up or shut up.

Do you who complain not realize that TiVo has from the beginning explicitly courted advertisers and it will NOT stop? They ARE trying to find a balance between being unobtrusive and effective, and I'm sure that comments and feedback to them is taken seriously with regards to this. But most of the people who complain here don't want ads and want them to go away. IT. WILL. NOT. HAPPEN. If you don't want ads, you HAVE to stop using TiVo. It's as simple as that.


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## Toni (Nov 23, 2002)

MickeS said:


> I'm all for expressing an opinion. But eventually there comes a time to put up or shut up.
> 
> Do you who complain not realize that TiVo has from the beginning explicitly courted advertisers and it will NOT stop? They ARE trying to find a balance between being unobtrusive and effective, and I'm sure that comments and feedback to them is taken seriously with regards to this. But most of the people who complain here don't want ads and want them to go away. IT. WILL. NOT. HAPPEN. If you don't want ads, you HAVE to stop using TiVo. It's as simple as that.


I don't care about ads on TiVo Central, or the little Thumbs Up things on commercials, or many of the other unobtrusive ways that TiVo includes ads.

I care about the intrusive More About on the screen when I hit the pause button that is persistent and from which I cannot opt out. And the only way TiVo is going to know that this particular ad mechanism is annoying to me is if I post or call to let them know - both of which I've done.

As for putting up or shutting up, all three of my TiVos are lifetime. I've already paid for them. There's no injury to TiVo if I cancel, because they've had my money for some time now.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Toni said:


> I'm glad it works for you, and I'm particularly glad that you expressed your opinion here. The only way for TiVo to know what their customers want and don't want is by all of us expressing our opinions in a place where they will hear it. This forum, their official forums, and their CS reps, are great places for getting that message across.


But complaining here DOESN'T tell Tivo about it.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

mattack said:


> But complaining here DOESN'T tell Tivo about it.


Of course it does.


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## Toni (Nov 23, 2002)

mattack said:


> But complaining here DOESN'T tell Tivo about it.


Sure it does. TiVoJerry, Pony, and I'm sure other TiVo staff members read these forums.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

MickeS said:


> Do you who complain not realize that TiVo has from the beginning explicitly courted advertisers and it will NOT stop?


Do you not realize that the topic being discussed here is NOT ads?


----------



## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

m.s said:


> So quit'yer'*****in. Find a better alternative if it really bothers you (and please tell the rest of us what you came up with).


Absolutely, and if there is no better alternative, *that* should *tell* you something.











MickeS said:


> If you don't want ads, you HAVE to stop using TiVo.


Or get a million or so other people to agree to pay $X per month extra to have a TiVo without advertising.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Toni said:


> Sure it does. TiVoJerry, Pony, and I'm sure other TiVo staff members read these forums.


I imagine they all get a round a monitor and read the eloquence of "ads are eww" threads with rapt attention 

I certainly hope they have taken my "as long as I do not use my remote differently" to heart. but by now they get that ads are not in the top ten feature list. To me it looks like they spend more time figuring out and researching how to include ads that give them effective pull through and are as unobtrusive as possible. Make no mistake, BTW, these are ads for Amazon Video on Demand. I like though how it combines the functionality with the ad. Missed some episode of some show - find out more about the show will take you to the place you may be able to download that episode.
Also, how many people have asked for a feature of seeing all the people in some show and finding out what else they have been in. This is not as inclusive as IMDB is for each specific episode but it sure is a good start

Seems an obvious spot for a pizza ad during the super bowl as well.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

RoyK said:


> Do you not realize that the topic being discussed here is NOT ads?


I count this "More about" bar as an ad.


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## wedenton (Jun 13, 2002)

MickeS said:


> I count this "More about" bar as an ad.


I don't. IIRC, the gold star and other ads appear only in Showcases and on various menus. They are perfectly ignorable. The "More About" bar pops up over PROGRAMMING that I want to see. I count that as a huge difference.


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## Conard (Nov 15, 2007)

The extra ads aren't a problem for me, I ignore most ads on TV or on-line.

What does annoy me with this update is the fact that my S2 losses it's ability to connect to my images or music on my main PC.
The PC can read the files in the TiVo but not the other way around.
If I unplug the TiVo or reset it by remote I'm good to go for a day or so and then it can't find the network until I re-boot the TiVo again.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

MickeS said:


> I count this "More about" bar as an ad.


That's a long stretch. The "More about" option takes you to the swivel search entry for the program, which has <gasp> more about the program you're watching. There's really nothing being sold unless you go looking for it in the swivel search screen. (I'm basing this on the S3 SS screen, I haven't seen the S2 implementation with the "more about" button).

I have often wanted exactly such an interface to take me from a program I'm watching directly to the swivel search information. I use it to cross-reference some actor a show. Ok, normally it's an actress. 

I do think they could have made it less obtrusive (Info button or even just a persistent dismiss) and hopefully they will by the time it shows up on the S3.


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## wtherrell (Dec 23, 2004)

Look, guys. The annoyance factor of "More about" & whatever is miniscule compared to the animated pop-ups in the lower corner of the screen put there by the networks to trumpet upcoming shows. If that has not caused me to give up entirely on television, then probably nothing will. 
As for the Swivel Search nag, I would give Tivo a pass on this issue if they would just fix MRV so that it works smoothly and reliably. They keep adding new stuff without paying attention to fixing problems with and smoothing the basics.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Toni said:


> Sure it does. TiVoJerry, Pony, and I'm sure other TiVo staff members read these forums.


Yes, but it doesn't get it "into the system" directly. Just like I read development mailing lists related to my employer's products, but when someone finds a problem, I ask them to go to the bug reporting system and write it up there.. (especially since what they're finding is not necessarily related to anything I work on).


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## Toni (Nov 23, 2002)

mattack said:


> Yes, but it doesn't get it "into the system" directly. Just like I read development mailing lists related to my employer's products, but when someone finds a problem, I ask them to go to the bug reporting system and write it up there.. (especially since what they're finding is not necessarily related to anything I work on).


And, as I've said, I have gone through official channels too, calling the CS reps.

But, THIS THREAD is to discuss the Fall 2008 Service Update. I don't recall seeing somewhere that THIS THREAD was only to blow sunshine and puppies up TiVo, Inc.'s butt. It's to discuss the Fall 2008 Service Update, good and bad. And, there's something in that update that some of us consider to be bad, and therefore we are DISCUSSING it.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

What about this thread makes it about the Fall 2008 Service Update? Where is the space for discussions of other aspects of the Fall 2008 Service Update? 

AFAIC, this thread has been hijacked.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

bicker said:


> The official avenue for support is the technical support telephone number (only).





bicker said:


> Absolutely. Customers simply didn't respond with enough on-going revenue back before TiVo started focusing on enhancing its revenue streams. So, as a reflection of its obligations to its owners, they began doing so. Without enhanced revenue streams *did not work*, so going back to that model isn't defensible. With enhanced revenue streams may not work either. There may be nothing to justifies the existence of TiVo as an independent stand-alone DVR maker.





bicker said:


> It could happen. When they do help out, here on TCF, they do so on their own volition; TCF isn't an official source of support, and two question marks after the inquiry as to whether they're responding to such issues "ANYWHERE" (all caps) made it seem like that wasn't clear. I'm sorry for any confusion.





bicker said:


> No. You won't see the "end to it" until people actually are willing to pay a lot more for what you want.





bicker said:


> You've contradicted yourself. As I said, it is up to them to decide if and when they'll offer assistance. As far as I know, it is not part of their job to provide technical support through this venue.





bicker said:


> What are you referring to? I have never seen that.
> 
> Pony, as a marketing manager, does have an "official" role that implies his involvement here. The engineers likely do not, and as such we should never act as if they're supposed to be spending their time here helping us.
> 
> Voicing dissatisfaction here before you've gone through the tech support process to try to get satisfaction is disingenuous.





bicker said:


> I simply haven't. From how you describe it, it doesn't appear to have any intersection with standard TiVo tech support, so I wouldn't have seen such introductions, since I don't have a DirecTiVo.
> 
> Rather, there are *limitations* on what employees can say here. Pony is an exception, like I said. He's in Marketing. But AFIAK, TCF participation is not part of any tech guy's job; they are only subject to *restrictions *on their participation here.
> 
> ...





bicker said:


> Looks like both sides of this issue will have to "get over" reading postings critical of their perspective, or "find another forum to read".
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone looking for an un-rebutted soap-box from which to project their own perspective in exclusivity is in the wrong place.





bicker said:


> I suspect he did so like folks "determined" most of the other comments of the same order in this thread (or on these forums, for that matter).





bicker said:


> Good point.





bicker said:


> None, in this context. That comment was non-sequitur.





bicker said:


> Absolutely, and if there is no better alternative, *that* should *tell* you something.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





bicker said:


> What about this thread makes it about the Fall 2008 Service Update? Where is the space for discussions of other aspects of the Fall 2008 Service Update?
> 
> AFAIC, this thread has been hijacked.


Regarding your last post, directly above, I agree with you. This thread has been hijacked...


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

bicker said:


> What about this thread makes it about the Fall 2008 Service Update?


Ummm the title of the thread maybe?



bicker said:


> Where is the space for discussions of other aspects of the Fall 2008 Service Update?


Right here. Post away.



bicker said:


> AFAIC, this thread has been hijacked.


AFAIC the only thing different enough to discuss is the intrusive "More About" stupidity.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

DCIFRTHS said:


> Regarding your last post, directly above, I agree with you. This thread has been hijacked...


Indeed, by a few folks insisting on polluting this thread with a singular pet peeve, far beyond the gravity of the peeve, itself.

(BTW, did you happen to notice most of the other 226 messages in the thread, or did you inadvertently overlook them?)



RoyK said:


> AFAIC the only thing different enough to discuss is the intrusive "More About" stupidity.


At least that (i.e., the lack of new features in this update) is worthy of discussion.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

RoyK said:


> AFAIC the only thing different enough to discuss is the intrusive "More About" stupidity.


Yeah, there's not a whole lot of difference apparent between 9.3.1 and 9.3.2. Besides "More About", there's the menu reorganization, and there seems to be the same fix for multiple levels of folders on TTCB servers (like pyTivo) as there was in 9.4 (so "hack83" is no longer needed in pyTivo). I can't think of anything else. Too bad they refuse to post their change lists.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

wmcbrine said:


> Yeah, there's not a whole lot of difference apparent between 9.3.1 and 9.3.2. Besides "More About", there's the menu reorganization, and there seems to be the same fix for multiple levels of folders on TTCB servers (like pyTivo) as there was in 9.4 (so "hack83" is no longer needed in pyTivo). I can't think of anything else. Too bad they refuse to post their change lists.


That looks like the list to me. I think they put in bug fixes and just the few changes. It would seem the main resources were spent on series 3 updates and hopefully testing of improvements to streaming


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## [email protected] (Dec 1, 2007)

Gee - all this angst and handwringing over the "pause" screen.

Not only that - it's about a "feature" that might not even make it into the final distribution, as far as I can see.

I've actually got the 11.something release on one of my TiVo HD boxes (although the other one is still at 9.4), but I don't see anything new on the screen when I hit "pause" - just the usual green progress bar.


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## dgf123 (Nov 29, 2008)

There is no way to turn off the "FOR MORE INFO CRAP" Two calls to customer service and both reps have said it is here to stay and will be coming to our series three DVRs soon! Unless enough people call in to complain!


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## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

Anyone else starting to see ad's on the new swivel pause "feature"? I was watching a show and paused it and along with the "More about show" there was an ad for "Horton Hears a Who Holiday Fun". Which led to an ad where you can purchase the DVD and see some "behind the scene" video.

Looks like this new "feature" is just another avenue to force ad's down our throat. Thanks Tivo, this new feature is really for our benefit.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Not only that - it's about a "feature" that might not even make it into the final distribution, as far as I can see.


It's in 9.3.2, which is out already for the Series 2.


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## dgf123 (Nov 29, 2008)

There is starting to be fewer and fewer reasons to use a TIVO as opposed to other DVRs as they are all becoming less user friendly and more revenue friendly.


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## bidderman9 (Nov 8, 2007)

OK, I just received my 3rd fall service update on my Series II. What gives?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Malcontent said:


> Looks like this new "feature" is just another avenue to force ad's down our throat. Thanks Tivo, this new feature is really for our benefit.


yeah, it was so weird. I hit pause during a show and this TiVo guy came crashing through the wall and picked me up and pushed my face into the screen and made me drink the koolaid pouring out of the ad graphic on the screen.

oh wait - that was just a distorted memory of some dumb commercial I used to watch before I had a Tivo DVR.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

dgf123 said:


> There is starting to be fewer and fewer reasons to use a TIVO as opposed to other DVRs as they are all becoming less user friendly and more revenue friendly.


yah that Netflix streaming on my series 3 is just no reason 
and getting Rhapsody on my series 2 - that was just dumb luck.

I think I will look into cable company DVRs again since they are so open to making deals with 3rd parties and really making my DVR into a media server versus just a thing that records TV


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> yeah, it was so weird. I hit pause during a show and this TiVo guy came crashing through the wall and picked me up and pushed my face into the screen and made me drink the koolaid pouring out of the ad graphic on the screen.
> 
> oh wait - that was just a distorted memory of some dumb commercial I used to watch before I had a Tivo DVR.


You drank the TiVo koolaid long ago.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> yeah, it was so weird. I hit pause during a show and this TiVo guy came crashing through the wall and picked me up and pushed my face into the screen and made me drink the koolaid pouring out of the ad graphic on the screen.
> 
> oh wait - that was just a distorted memory of some dumb commercial I used to watch before I had a Tivo DVR.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RoyK said:


> You drank the koolaid long ago.


maybe, but I was not forced to stare at the screen and read off the ad like some make it seem.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Don't try to inject rationality into this Zeo. :shameshame:


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## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

RoyK said:


> You drank the TiVo koolaid long ago.


:up:


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## dgf123 (Nov 29, 2008)

I would be happy to pay $10.00 to $15.00 a month for a service that lets me watch TV my way instead of some big companys way! Oh wait never mind.......


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Malcontent said:


> :up:


why would you give a thumbs up to that?
I stated from the get go these are ads and have not even thought of it as a feature. Show me where I have tried to gloss over something and act like it is not what it is.
I may have a different opinion on ads than you but it is based on my perspective and likes, not TiVo inc.'s.


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## wedenton (Jun 13, 2002)

Malcontent said:


> Anyone else starting to see ad's on the new swivel pause "feature"? I was watching a show and paused it and along with the "More about show" there was an ad for "Horton Hears a Who Holiday Fun". Which led to an ad where you can purchase the DVD and see some "behind the scene" video.
> 
> Looks like this new "feature" is just another avenue to force ad's down our throat.


Agreed. I hereby reverse my earlier opinion that the "feature" is not an ad. Its a particularly obnoxious ad. The Koolaid is starting to taste bitter.

As an aside, and not intended as a thread highjack, I would like to get Horton in the sights of my .458 and blow the .....well, you get the idea.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

wedenton said:


> As an aside, and not intended as a thread highjack, I would like to get Horton in the sights of my .458 and blow the .....well, you get the idea.


What is ''Horton''? 
Is that a reference to an ad on the Tivo?
I wouldn't know. The only time I remotely notice an ad is during the delete screen at the end of some shows. Even so, I couldn't tell you what they were for. My 'arrow up - select' button presses are instinct now. 
If you ''see'' any other ads on Tivo, then you're purposely looking for them (IMO).


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

An ad for the animated movie "Horton Hears a Who".


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## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

steve614 said:


> If you ''see'' any other ads on Tivo, then you're purposely looking for them (IMO).


No. I don't have to look for them, their *FINDING ME* more frequently on their own, as a result of these new nifty value added features Tivo has so kindly forced on us. Couldn't this new and helpful feature have an *OFF* option in the settings menu? This would allow Tivo customers who find no value in this new Swivel feature to turn it off. Others who use/like the new swivel feature can leave it turned on. After all this is a "feature" and not an advertising vehicle.... right?


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

CuriousMark said:


> An ad for the animated movie "Horton Hears a Who".


I figured as much.

Like I said...



steve614 said:


> I wouldn't know. The only time I remotely notice an ad is during the delete screen at the end of some shows. Even so, I couldn't tell you what they were for. My 'arrow up - select' button presses are instinct now.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Malcontent said:


> No. I don't have to look for them, their *FINDING ME* more frequently on their own, as a result of these new nifty value added features Tivo has so kindly forced on us. Couldn't this new and helpful feature have an *OFF* option in the settings menu? This would allow Tivo customers who find the no value in this new Swivel feature to turn it off. Others who use/like the new swivel feature can leave it turned on. After all this is a "feature" and not an advertising vehicle.... right?


If you're referring to the "more about" button that was added to the pause screen in the S2 updates, that doesn't bother me as I rarely have a need to pause. When I do, I'll just do what I have had to do before: hit the 'clear' button. :shrug:


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## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

steve614 said:


> I wouldn't know. The only time I remotely notice an ad is during the delete screen at the end of some shows. Even so, I couldn't tell you what they were for.


You are fortunate then. But other Tivo users may not have your ability to be oblivious to these new ads/features. Others find these new ads/features to be intrusive and annoying. Just because they don't bother you doesn't mean they don't bother others. My opinion is that the new swivel feature should have an OFF option in the settings menu.


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## Toni (Nov 23, 2002)

The More About has become somewhere more palatable since I figured out how to put the 1-second clear back on.

For those who missed it earlier in the thread, pause a show and hit the down arrow or clear to get rid of the More About. Then you can do the Select-Play-Select-Pause-Select to make the info bar clear after 1 second.

Since adding that code back in, the More About nonsense goes away quickly enough that I'm not bothered by it much.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Toni said:


> The More About has become somewhere more palatable since I figured out how to put the 1-second clear back on.
> 
> For those who missed it earlier in the thread, pause a show and hit the down arrow or clear to get rid of the More About. Then you can do the Select-Play-Select-Pause-Select to make the info bar clear after 1 second.
> 
> Since adding that code back in, the More About nonsense goes away quickly enough that I'm not bothered by it much.


Yeah but then you lose the time bar which is useful.


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

I got the update this morning. It is taking a good 30 seconds for me to get to the VOD menu or You Tube (from the Music menu). I am guessing that the loading of data and maybe some post update processing are slowing things down right now.

I did note that my HD space went up from 86 hours to 93 hours. So, on a very good note, the software is either a bit smaller, or they just reduced the reserved area some. Either way, more HD space is good.....


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

jlb said:


> I got the update this morning. It is taking a good 30 seconds for me to get to the VOD menu or You Tube (from the Music menu). I am guessing that the loading of data and maybe some post update processing are slowing things down right now.
> 
> ..


That's being reported by several in the Series 3 forum (New Fall Service update! thread). Same thing happening on my S2 boxes so it's probably a server issue.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

ZeoTiVo said:


> yah that Netflix streaming on my series 3 is just no reason


Seems real difficult to get any info on this upcoming feature.

F'rinstance, will they be doing HD, and if so, how long does it take to download what is a minimum of 12-15 gigs or so for a Blu-Ray quality two hour HD movie?

Unless of course they compress the living beejeezus out of it, in which case it may be only 6-8 gigs in size, but will look like crap...


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

dougdingle said:


> Seems real difficult to get any info on this upcoming feature.
> 
> F'rinstance, will they be doing HD, and if so, how long does it take to download what is a minimum of 12-15 gigs or so for a Blu-Ray quality two hour HD movie?
> 
> Unless of course they compress the living beejeezus out of it, in which case it may be only 6-8 gigs in size, but will look like crap...


Some BD players and the XBox 360 already have this (in HD, I think). Of course they will compress the living bejeezus out of it, that goes without saying.  My guess is it will be like any other online HD content, slightly better than DVD.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

dougdingle said:


> F'rinstance, will they be doing HD, and if so, how long does it take to download what is a minimum of 12-15 gigs or so for a Blu-Ray quality two hour HD movie?


While nothing is specifically mentioned about TiVo, I'd recommend reading the Netflix blog as there have been a number of entries regarding streaming. I would highly recommend the "Encoded for Streaming" post which talks about how the streams are encoded and at what bit rates.

Netflix also has a Instantly to your TV page which has a FAQ about the functionality on the "Instant Answers" page.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

dougdingle said:


> Unless of course they compress the living beejeezus out of it, in which case it may be only 6-8 gigs in size, but will look like crap...


well look like crap is subjective and of course depends on the TV used to view it as well. But sure if you want the best quality then get Blu-Ray and do not even concern yourself with downloads, let alone streaming.

but for those fine with Digital quality and that is close enough to DVD quality then streaming is a great option. I have a PC hooked up to a 22 inch LCD TV and streaming on it looks quite good, it is not Blu-ray but it is not garbage either. I have seen no streaming on a 60" LCD so perhaps compression artifacts are quite noticeable on that and it is garbage. If that is the case then you need a Blu-ray player hooked straight up as broadband is not geared for blu-ray streaming yet. 
It is kind of like complaining that at the buffet restaurant you have to go get your own food. That is indeed the case but only because of how the medium is setup and not because they thought it was the absolute best quality way to go.


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## Laserfan (Apr 25, 2000)

dougdingle said:


> Seems real difficult to get any info on this upcoming feature. F'rinstance, will they be doing HD, and if so, how long does it take to download what is a minimum of 12-15 gigs or so for a Blu-Ray quality two hour HD movie? Unless of course they compress the living beejeezus out of it, in which case it may be only 6-8 gigs in size, but will look like crap...


I looked at the Netflix link (thanks Morac), and 720p at 2600-3800Kbps should look about like the best broadcast HD. It won't look like 1080p 15-20MBps for sure.



ZeoTiVo said:


> well look like crap is subjective and of course depends on the TV used to view it as well. But sure if you want the best quality then get Blu-Ray and do not even concern yourself with downloads, let alone streaming.


What Zeo said! If you want-need-insist upon the best, Netflix ain't it.


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## riekl (Jan 29, 2001)

Am I the only one bitterly disapointed that what is normally our major upgrade of the year has absolutely nothing in it ? They rearranged some VOD menus. Seriously .. this is our update for the year ? WTF Tivo ..


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## kmill14 (Dec 11, 2006)

riekl said:


> Am I the only one bitterly disapointed that what is normally our major upgrade of the year has absolutely nothing in it ? They rearranged some VOD menus. Seriously .. this is our update for the year ? WTF Tivo ..


Have a little patience.....I would bet what you see now is not all there is to this update.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

riekl said:


> Am I the only one bitterly disapointed that what is normally our major upgrade of the year has absolutely nothing in it ? They rearranged some VOD menus. Seriously .. this is our update for the year ? WTF Tivo ..


+1. Tivo could have at least added folder play and folder delete for the S2s like they have on the S3s.


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

Just wanted to comment here that the "More About" crap on pause is not a universal thing (but I don't know why). I do not see anything on my screen when I hit pause except the time bar. That applies to both my S3 and HD boxes. Both boxes have a new V11 update, but not the same one. The S3 has -2-648, but my HD box has -2-652.

I am not sure why the difference - maybe the release is specific to the TiVo model, or maybe it is because the S3 is still connecting to TiVo's  servers, even though I am not currently enrolled in any special programs? The HD box is connecting to the normal production servers. Another difference is that my S3 box does not receive any gold star or other advertising of any sort on the main menu, but the HD does. I attribute this to the  servers.

So to recap, I do not see, nor have I ever seen, the obtrusive "More About" banner on a pause screen on either box. For that I am glad, even if I do not know why. I would HATE it. But it is good to know about the ability to remove it with "clear" should it ever start for me. I didn't even know about using "clear" to get rid of the time bar, which is often a problem for me when trying to catch some long subtitles in a movie, so I really appreciate that info.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

it has not shown up on series 3 models yet. I have both and Sereis 2 shows it and TiVo HD with ver 11 does not


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

riekl said:


> Am I the only one bitterly disapointed that what is normally our major upgrade of the year has absolutely nothing in it ? They rearranged some VOD menus. Seriously .. this is our update for the year ? WTF Tivo ..


I think Netflix is a rather major update.


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## LADYBUGBLUE2002 (Sep 7, 2003)

MickeS said:


> I think Netflix is a rather major update.


If you have a Series 2 Netflix is not there...plus if you are in Canada Tivo basically got rid of any and all free downloads. I used to get them but I can't any longer.

I am disappointed as well...


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## dgf123 (Nov 29, 2008)

..


dgf123 said:


> I hope you never do see the "more about" pop up but from what tivo customer service says it will be coming to all soon. It sucks!


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## fergie8 (Oct 26, 2006)

etz said:


> I don't care for this either. The swivel search feature is already in the program details, so it's not needed here too. If I want to learn more about the program, then I'll go back to the program details and do my thing.
> 
> It's not as bad as advertising, but it does clutter the interface w/o adding any real value.





bojiro said:


> I hate this as well! Ads cannot be far behind!


Yep, so right. See TiVo Pitches Pause Promos.


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## JayBird (Jan 26, 2003)

fergie8 said:


> Yep, so right. See TiVo Pitches Pause Promos.


From that article:



> According to TiVo, its research has found that linking the Pause Menu to the Swivel Search feature gets "very positive viewer reaction."


I wonder _*who *_TiVo used as a customer base for this "research".

It seems pretty unanamous that it's received a "very negative viewer reaction" on this forum.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

fergie8 said:


> Yep, so right. See TiVo Pitches Pause Promos.


Here's an artists rendering. It originally said "Sh*t" instead of junk, but my mom reads the blog.


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## dgf123 (Nov 29, 2008)

In the past Tivo users have been very passionate about their tivos and we have told everyone how great tivo is but that is going to be changeing as tivo kisses the butts of advertisors and forgets about us! What a shame. All good things come to an end.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

We got the update on both our TiVo HD boxes a couple days ago and I like it. The menu reorg is an improvement, the extra program information available is nice.

We haven't seen the new banner on the Pause screen, but I can't imagine it'll bother me if we do, especially if it can be made to go away with one button. In fact, I can see where it would be useful as often as not.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

macquariumguy said:


> We haven't seen the new banner on the Pause screen, but I can't imagine it'll bother me if we do


It's only active on Series2 units at the moment. Though I assume it won't be long before S3/HD units get it.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

JayBird said:


> From that article:
> 
> I wonder _*who *_TiVo used as a customer base for this "research".
> 
> It seems pretty unanamous that it's received a "very negative viewer reaction" on this forum.


not the least bit unanimous.
Did I await it as eagerly as netflix streaming on my TiVo HD? of course not. It is just an ad thing that I will mostly ignore unless I am in the market for whatever shows up.
But it looks like the old 
- I hate ads
- I am not concerned about ads 
split on reaction


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## NJ_HB (Mar 21, 2007)

This is obviously a sore subject but what IF TiVo offered the subscriber the Standard TiVo subscription and a subsidized 'advertiser paid' subscription. 

Standard subscription - you pay for your own subscription, you can skip ads and no 'pause' ads. 
Subsidized subscription - advertisers pay for your subscription, no ad skipping + 'pause' ads, yellow star ads etc.

TiVo could then provide the Advertisers detailed demographics on the subsidized subscriptions and maybe even generate some revenue from that source.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

dgf123 said:


> In the past Tivo users have been very passionate about their tivos and we have told everyone how great tivo is but that is going to be changeing as tivo kisses the butts of advertisors and forgets about us! What a shame. All good things come to an end.


TiVo has explicitly courted advertisers from the very beginning. It is one of the foundations of their business.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> But it looks like the old
> - I hate ads
> - I am not concerned about ads
> split on reaction


...neither of which can really be construed as "positive". You really have to wonder where they're coming from with that claim.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

wmcbrine said:


> ...neither of which can really be construed as "positive". You really have to wonder where they're coming from with that claim.


They have the same delusions that most marketing folks do.... that people want the crap they peddle and just love the way they peddle it.

Would you expect them to say that their SPAM is being poorly received and that many complaints have been registered with Tech Support? (as I was told this morning when I added mine to the list)


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

I'm so glad Tivo turned a deaf ear to all the requests over the years for a screen saver when using pause to protect users' TVs. How much happier we all are to have new ads to protect the content providers' business model.


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## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

I received another software update on my series 2 TIVOtoday. It is 9.3.2a


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RoyK said:


> Would you expect them to say that their SPAM is being poorly received and that many complaints have been registered with Tech Support? (as I was told this morning when I added mine to the list)


well I am sure they are shocked they got _complaints_.

I can see the CEO yawning over that and asking for the numbers on any actual revenue lost because of the ads to balance against any revenue earned from the ads.

if all the ads went away tomorrow, iwould probably be slightly happier assuming all else stayed the same and sub prices did not increase and R&D for things like Netflix continued.
if they offered a "pay an extra 25Cents a month to never see ads again" I would yawn and ignore it but be happy for all those that did not like ads and agreed to pay it.


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## esb1981 (Dec 2, 2007)

When this "more about" thing shows up on the pause screen, can you make it go away by pressing the Clear button like you could do before with the green progress bar? Sometimes I like to pause an image so I can look at it more carefully -- "Lost" fans can relate, or fans of Two & a Half Men who like to read the Chuck Lorre Productions blurb at the end.

My two cents on the increased ads... while I don't like it, I'm more concerned with Tivo, Inc. actually staying in business. And let's be honest, this is not a profitable company, so they may need additional revenue streams to just stay afloat. That said, they have to be careful here. If it gets to the point where you aren't aloud to fast-forward through certain commercials, then they will have crossed the line, and they'll lose subscribers.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

timstack8969 said:


> I received another software update on my series 2 TIVOtoday. It is 9.3.2a


This was a special release to broadband users of Series 2's to correct some problems that some were having with Amazon downloads.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

esb1981 said:


> When this "more about" thing shows up on the pause screen, can you make it go away by pressing the Clear button like you could do before with the green progress bar? Sometimes I like to pause an image so I can look at it more carefully -- "Lost" fans can relate, or fans of Two & a Half Men who like to read the Chuck Lorre Productions blurb at the end.


Yes. The Clear button removes everything including the ads. I always used the Clear button after Pause (unless I was pausing to answer the phone, etc.) so the ads aren't really that annoying. Had to clear the Time Bar anyway to read Chuck Lorre's punch line.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

esb1981 said:


> My two cents on the increased ads... while I don't like it, I'm more concerned with Tivo, Inc. actually staying in business. And let's be honest, this is not a profitable company, so they may need additional revenue streams to just stay afloat. That said, they have to be careful here. If it gets to the point where you aren't aloud to fast-forward through certain commercials, then they will have crossed the line, and they'll lose subscribers.


:up:


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

i actually liked this fact:


> Pause Menu ads can be displayed on the pause screen of a live or time-shifted program, and TiVo will offer options to *target genres or keywords *within a program description.


I really dont mind targeted ads and would even say that YES I enjoy them. If I'm watching horton hears a who and an add pops up to buy the dvd on amazon then maybe I buy it becasue my kids are loving the show and it's simple for me.

Seems like Mercedes is aiming at football watchers.

BUT if they just constantly toss things up then I'll ignore it like i do with commericals now a days. Hopefully the advertisers get that and use it accordingly.

A random commercial here and there that has no connection to my tastes is no biggie but if they are non-stop then i just tune them out. If they target them to my interests I'd probably pay more attention.


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## Meklos (Nov 22, 2002)

Any idea when 9.4 is going to make it to the S2 platform? If we can't have playlists (grumble grumble) at least the "Play an entire folder at once" will keep my wife from driving me insane with "Every 11 minutes I have to go in there and start something else on the kids Tivo"...


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Meklos said:


> Any idea when 9.4 is going to make it to the S2 platform? If we can't have playlists (grumble grumble) at least the "Play an entire folder at once" will keep my wife from driving me insane with "Every 11 minutes I have to go in there and start something else on the kids Tivo"...












or turn on Kidzone and give them the regular remote - with Kidzone on they can not get out of now playing nor delete anything


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## Meklos (Nov 22, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> or turn on Kidzone and give them the regular remote - with Kidzone on they can not get out of now playing nor delete anything


Too young to work the remote and all the data is pushed from TivoDesktop (or similar) so the more I can get it to act like a channel and less like individually selected programs, the better... At this point, if I can get 9.4 and the folders work, then I'll just rename a bunch of shows Monday 1, Monday 2, Monday 3 and create my own channel lineup.

If that doesn't work, I might be doing some creative video editing and stitching together 2-3 hours of programming at a time. Heaven forbid the two-year-old be deprived of Spongebob for an entire day.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Meklos said:


> If that doesn't work, I might be doing some creative video editing and stitching together 2-3 hours of programming at a time. Heaven forbid the two-year-old be deprived of Spongebob for an entire day.


my feeling is if they are too young to do the simple remote control functions of highlighting a show and playing it then they should do more engaging things than have TV on for 2 or 3 hours straight. But that is a different thread and different forum


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## Meklos (Nov 22, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> my feeling is if they are too young to do the simple remote control functions of highlighting a show and playing it then they should do more engaging things than have TV on for 2 or 3 hours straight. But that is a different thread and different forum


True... but:

1) For many times, it's more background stuff than active shows

and

2) If you pick the shows right and mix in some real educational content with some entertainment, you can tune it to their attention span and current level of learning.

Basically if I can put a couple of Spongebobs, a PBS show or two, a Dora the Explorer or two, a Backyardigans, some classical music and some new interactive content in there occasionally, I can provide what is in-effect a 'custom channel' for my son. My wife can go in and play with him during the PBS show and maybe the Dora depending on the episode, work on counting or whatever the topic of the show is. He'll end up headfirst in his toy box during the Backyardigans because while it's familiar to him, he doesn't necessarily like it - but he'll put up with it as background to play by. He might watch it for 3 minutes of the 30 minute show.

I want to be able to customize my own list of shows and maybe tie them together by topic. I want to be able to introduce new content occasionally as he progresses. I can't do that by flipping on any particular channel. And while I might be able to do it with a non-DVR and a bunch of "Record to VCR/autotune" settings, I would rather not have to rely on whatever I can find on at the moment during the day.

I have the content on my hard drive, and I can get those contents to the Tivo. If I can just get the Tivo to play all the contents of a particular folder one after the other, it's a matter of renaming files for whatever programs I've selected for the day so that they all fall into the same folder and play in the order I want them to...

Right now, the wife has to babysit the Tivo more than our son to accomplish this... and that's not going to work.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6621015.html

We are mere months away from the single line banner turning into a superimposed window running full blown commercials on "pause".

"With the number of DVR homes on the rise, TV advertisers are facing a very serious commercial avoidance issue that must be addressed now," TiVo vice president of marketing and product management David Sandford said in a statement. "The launch of Pause Menu moves us another step closer to achieving our goal of providing a comprehensive suite of interactive advertising solutions designed to help the TV industry reach viewers in a DVR world."

And: "According to TiVo, its research has found that linking the Pause Menu to the Swivel Search feature gets 'very positive viewer reaction.'"

"A very serious commercial avoidance issue." It would be difficult to find a more disingenuous statement outside of anything said by a politician.

Gotta say, between the number of bugs on my S3's that have remained unfixed for half a year, the most annoying of which is the FUBAR'd shuttle mode, and the relentless intrusions by advertisers, I've started to look around for a different solution. I'll be surprised if I stay with TiVo when my 3 year subs run out in about a year, and I've been a TiVo user for a VERY long time.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Meklos said:


> True... but:
> 
> 1) For many times, it's more background stuff than active shows
> 
> ...


ah, well that is much better than 2 to 3 hours of Spongebob (which I like and laugh my head off, BTW)


And I think it valid to have TiVo get more concerned about giving us that feature on S2 vs. the pause ad. stuff. Clearly a decision based on revenue expectations from ad and the technology vs. no real revenue gain from adding in a useful feature but not a significant one in itself.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

dougdingle said:


> "A very serious commercial avoidance issue." It would be difficult to find a more disingenuous statement outside of anything said by a politician.


well politician's clearly have more important issues to deal with at the moment, but when TiVo DVRs get guide data for shows that only have $50,000 budget to create each episode due to lack of interest in buying the 30 second spots that add up to pay for the show then it will be a serious issue to the industry and to me looking for something good to record versus "Dancing with the Survivors of Lost"


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

dougdingle said:


> "A very serious commercial avoidance issue." It would be difficult to find a more disingenuous statement outside of anything said by a politician.


It's deeply offensive. Subscribers are their customers, not advertisers. If they want to start treating advertisers as their customers instead of us, then they need to start giving away the service.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

ZeoTiVo said:


> "Dancing with the Survivors of Lost"


Woo Hoo! ARWL set!!!


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## dgf123 (Nov 29, 2008)

wmcbrine said:


> It's deeply offensive. Subscribers are their customers, not advertisers. If they want to start treating advertisers as their customers instead of us, then they need to start giving away the service.


 YES IT IS DEEPLY OFFENSIVE! To many of us Tivo subscribers who have been so loyal in the past.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

wmcbrine said:


> It's deeply offensive.


If you take business personally, you'll be offended often, and without any constructive purpose.



wmcbrine said:


> Subscribers are their customers, not advertisers.


Now, both are, and just like any market scenario, whichever priorities produce the greater long-term shareholder value are the priorities that should prevail.



wmcbrine said:


> If they want to start treating advertisers as their customers instead of us, then they need to start giving away the service.


They *have been *substantially "giving a portion of the service away". Until now, that has been reflected in the ongoing financial loss they post most every single quarter. Since we subscribers have not adequately demonstrated a consistent and reliable willingness to pay a substantial enough premium for advertising-free service, we're getting what we deserve. Absolutely what we deserve.

In rough, round numbers, figure that every penny you've sent to TiVo has been discounted (again, rough guessing here) by 20%-25%, reflecting that they've been giving away (and will continue to give away ) 20%-25% of the service each subscriber gets.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

dougdingle said:


> "A very serious commercial avoidance issue." It would be difficult to find a more disingenuous statement outside of anything said by a politician.


But just like a politician you decided to ignore that the full quote was "_TV advertisers_ are facing a very serious commercial avoidance".

The commercial avoidance is NOT serious in the sense "it's wrong to do this" as your botched quote implies, but it's a serious issue for TV advertisers.

How you or anyone can find anything "disingenuous" (do you know what that word means?) or offensive about this factual statement is beyond me.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

dougdingle said:


> http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6621015.html
> 
> We are mere months away from the single line banner turning into a superimposed window running full blown commercials on "pause".
> ...


I expect silence when I press the PAUSE button. Silence as in NO SOUND from my TV. When commercials arrive, on the PAUSE screen, and they have sound, it will be a sad day.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

bicker said:


> ... Since we subscribers have not adequately demonstrated a consistent and reliable willingness to pay a substantial enough premium for advertising-free service, we're getting what we deserve. Absolutely what we deserve. ...


Maybe I missed it, but has TiVo offered a "premium" service that removes all advertising?


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

You must have missed the service they offered with the S1.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

DCIFRTHS said:


> I expect silence when I press the PAUSE button. Silence as in NO SOUND from my TV. When commercials arrive, on the PAUSE screen, and they have sound, it will be a sad day.


No one said that there will be commercials with sound, except the poster you quoted who made it up.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

bicker said:


> You must have missed the service they offered with the S1.


No. That was standard service - not premium. Did I miss something else they offered / are offering?


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

Turtleboy said:


> No one said that there will be commercials with sound, except the poster you quoted who made it up.


Based on the way that TiVo has steadily injected commercials into the interface, it is *I* who is anticipating that this will happen. I honestly didn't even read the link. I should have just quoted the original poster because I believe that is where TiVo is heading.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

> Originally Posted by *wmcbrine*
> It's deeply offensive. Subscribers are their customers, not advertisers. If they want to start treating advertisers as their customers instead of us, then they need to start giving away the service.


I am not sure I would call it offensive but it sure is a pain the a**. I feel the same way about my Sat service - all the channels I pay for are 30%+ advertisements - which effectively makes watching live TV unbearable. I know it is the same for OTA but at least I don't have to pay for it.

Advertisements embedded in entertainment is just like spam in email, it will exist as long as someone makes money doing it.

Thanks,


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

DCIFRTHS said:


> No. That was standard service - not premium. Did I miss something else they offered / are offering?


You're clearly intent on making it seem like you are not understanding anything that could illuminate a point you'd rather not think about.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

atmuscarella said:


> Advertisements embedded in entertainment is just like spam in email, it will exist as long as someone makes money doing it.


And as long as someone cannot make more money not doing it.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

DCIFRTHS said:


> No. That was standard service - not premium. Did I miss something else they offered / are offering?


Since TiVo is staged off a server that the TiVo unit is pointed at for HME and the like they could pretty easily offer a premium service without ads and even with faster service (eg special set of servers with only premium subs and thus less users per resources)

wonder why they have not? Could be the debacle over what many called complictaed pricing when they tried tiered pricing on regular service


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## leenuxg33k (Dec 24, 2007)

Meklos said:


> True... but:
> 
> 1) For many times, it's more background stuff than active shows


The TV is not a baby sitter! Holy crap. No wonder kids have ADD Today. My kids get a max of 2 hours a TV a day and usually only 1 hour. Ages 9, 8 and 5.

The rest of the time they are actually playing or reading.

Do your kids a favor and turn off the tv and read them a book.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

bicker said:


> You must have missed the service they offered with the S1.





DCIFRTHS said:


> No. That was standard service - not premium. Did I miss something else they offered / are offering?





bicker said:


> You're clearly intent on making it seem like you are not understanding anything that could illuminate a point you'd rather not think about.


Actually I'm intent on pointing out that even when you make statements that are offbase/wrong:



bicker said:


> ... Since we subscribers have not adequately demonstrated a consistent and reliable willingness to pay a substantial enough premium for advertising-free service, we're getting what we deserve. Absolutely what we deserve. ...


...and it's pointed out to you, all you do is skirt around the issue with a snide remark like.... Oh. Did you miss the deal on the Series 1 that TiVo offered 10 years ago?

Unless an ad free tier is offered, and fails, you can not accurately state that "subscribers have not demonstrated a consistent and reliable willingness to pay a substantial enough premium for advertising-free service, we're getting what we deserve. Absolutely what we deserve. ...".

Unless of course, my lack of taking it to the streets, and picketing TiVo headquarters, is what you meant...


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## dgf123 (Nov 29, 2008)

For years there have been over 200 channels I could receive with a $30.00 monthly subscription. I can only watch one program at a time so the advertisements on most of those programs are not seen by most people anyway and yet the advertisers are still buying ads and new programs are still being made with advertiser sponsored dollars. Why then are there these big worries about me not seeing the few commercials I skip with my Tivo?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

DCIFRTHS said:


> ...and it's pointed out to you, all you do is skirt around the issue with a snide remark like.... Oh. Did you miss the deal on the Series 1 that TiVo offered 10 years ago?


OK so you are with the TiVo execs and wnat to sell them on this idea of premium service. How do you deal with the issue that they already can not increase subs at the current prices? How do you deal with the fact that TiVo tried some tiered pricing before and people found it complicated and did not respons at all well to it?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

dgf123 said:


> For years there have been over 200 channels I could receive with a $30.00 monthly subscription. I can only watch one program at a time so the advertisements on most of those programs are not seen by most people anyway and yet the advertisers are still buying ads and new programs are still being made with advertiser sponsored dollars. Why then are there these big worries about me not seeing the few commercials I skip with my Tivo?


really? You completely think the whole advertising model revolves solely around your specific viewing pattern?

Hey TiVo where is the feature that lets me know what dgf123 is watching so I am sure to keep in sync and not go mess things up for his reality by watching something else


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

ZeoTiVo said:


> OK so you are with the TiVo execs and wnat to sell them on this idea of premium service. How do you deal with the issue that they already can not increase subs at the current prices?...


In order to answer that question, I would have to be a TiVo employee, with access to their customer's viewing habits, click through figures, and how much income the ads are actually generating. After examining the data, I would have to prove that it (no ads) could be a financially viable option. I don't have access to the data, and I haven't done the market research. I fear that TiVo hasn't either because all they see are dollar signs in their "ad technology".



ZeoTiVo said:


> How do you deal with the fact that TiVo tried some tiered pricing before and people found it complicated and did not respons at all well to it?


If you are referring to the "we're lowering prices" debacle, that's a bad example. TiVo introduced tiers, raised prices, and tried to spin it like they were lowering them. It was an embarrassment to the company. I would never have allowed that to happen in the first place. If you are referring to something else, please let me know because I am not familiar with it.


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## dgf123 (Nov 29, 2008)

ZeoTiVo said:


> really? You completely think the whole advertising model revolves solely around your specific viewing pattern?
> 
> Hey TiVo where is the feature that lets me know what dgf123 is watching so I am sure to keep in sync and not go mess things up for his reality by watching something else


 You completely missed the point! You should open your mind up to the possibillity that just maybe some one else has a valid opinion and they can express it here! Or is this only your place to preach?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

dgf123 said:


> You completely missed the point! You should open your mind up to the possibillity that just maybe some one else has a valid opinion and they can express it here! Or is this only your place to preach?


Your point was that you didn't understand how ad revenues could go down just because you skip commercials.

You DO realize that you're not exactly the only one doing this right? Once you realize that, you might figure out why ad revenues would be impacted...


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## dgf123 (Nov 29, 2008)

MickeS said:


> Your point was that you didn't understand how ad revenues could go down just because you skip commercials.
> 
> You DO realize that you're not exactly the only one doing this right? Once you realize that, you might figure out why ad revenues would be impacted...


I do realize that many people are skipping adds but the advertisors are not paying my Tivo bills of $20.00 each month. Myself and many others feel betrayed by Tivo when they cater to the advertisors and seem to be forgetting why many of us spent $1,100.00 for Tivo DVRS and $20.00 per month for "TV our way." and don't forget the $6.00 a month for cable cards. Thats my story and I'm stickin to it!


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

MickeS said:


> Your point was that you didn't understand how ad revenues could go down just because you skip commercials.
> 
> You DO realize that you're not exactly the only one doing this right? Once you realize that, you might figure out why ad revenues would be impacted...


I just wish somebody would explain to me how TiVo charging 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment to display a Horton ad over Sesame Street puts one dime in the coffers of National Public Broadcasting, The producers of Sesame Street, or anybody else except TiVo.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

> I just wish somebody would explain to me how TiVo charging 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment to display a Horton ad over Sesame Street puts one dime in the coffers of National Public Broadcasting, The producers of Sesame Street, or anybody else except TiVo.


It doesn't. TiVo hasn't been successful in developing a profitable model yet. They have the same choice as any business that isn't profitable - they can go out of business or find a way to become profitable. To become profitable TiVo must reduce costs and/or increase revenues. It appears Tivo believes increasing revenue with advertising $s is a viable way to become profitable. Given how well advertising has worked for the entertainment industry - who can blame them?

Thanks,


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## slrcosmos (Dec 11, 2008)

I got a new update last night and now the Quicker Hiding easter egg doesn't work. I called tech support and the guy told me that they probably took it away because of the pause swivel search addition. I opted out of all the advetisements a few weeks ago, but it never worked. The guy on the phone today said he opted me out of everything, which I guess wasn't done before and I'll see if it works this time. I'm just bummed over the quicker hiding, I loved that little extra feature.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

DCIFRTHS said:


> Actually I'm intent on pointing out that even when you make statements that are offbase/wrong:


No, you're just being a child. I should be used to it by now.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

slrcosmos said:


> I got a new update last night and now the Quicker Hiding easter egg doesn't work. I called tech support and the guy told me that they probably took it away because of the pause swivel search addition. I opted out of all the advetisements a few weeks ago, but it never worked. The guy on the phone today said he opted me out of everything, which I guess wasn't done before and I'll see if it works this time. I'm just bummed over the quicker hiding, I loved that little extra feature.


Pause a show, press down to banish the pause button, press play and now enter the quick banish code s-p-s-pause-s. It will work. The reason it does not work when the pause button is showing is that the select after pause in the code is actually taking you to swivel search instead of completing the code entry.

P.S. This is posted several times earlier in this thread, but I am repeating it for new reader who are starting at the end. I apologize if my post annoys those who have followed the thread from the beginning.


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## Toni (Nov 23, 2002)

slrcosmos said:


> I got a new update last night and now the Quicker Hiding easter egg doesn't work. I called tech support and the guy told me that they probably took it away because of the pause swivel search addition. I opted out of all the advetisements a few weeks ago, but it never worked. The guy on the phone today said he opted me out of everything, which I guess wasn't done before and I'll see if it works this time. I'm just bummed over the quicker hiding, I loved that little extra feature.


After a new update, those codes get wiped out. You just need to put it back in again. This is how I can tell when I've gotten an update, actually. When the codes stop working, I know something's changed.

Anyway just pause a show, click Clear to get rid of the More About crap, then do the Select-Play-Select-Pause-Select again and it will be back.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

RoyK said:


> I just wish somebody would explain to me how TiVo charging 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment to display a Horton ad over Sesame Street puts one dime in the coffers of National Public Broadcasting, The producers of Sesame Street, or anybody else except TiVo.


Maybe the broadcaster is the one hooking TiVo up with the advertiser, for a part of the profit. Win-win for both - TiVo doesn't have to do sales, the broadcaster gets extra revenue.

Pure speculation on my part though.


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## DVDerek (Sep 30, 2002)

I still believe that using my TiVo greatly reduces my overall advertising consumption. I still believe the service offered to me by TiVo is worth what I paid for it. TiVo has my money and I'm, for the large part, a happy user of the service they provide to me, but I have stopped recommending TiVo to friends. If they ask, I'm happy to tell them why I chose to stick with TiVo over a cable company DVR, but I am an evangelist no more. A lot of it has to do with TiVo stalling in providing users with features they find to have actual utility and instead catering to advertisers. The Netflix feature added to my TiVo (which is now a TiVo HD) was the first new, usable, exciting consumer feature added since the Home Media Extensions.

And don't get me started on how awful they have made using those Home Media applications. They whored the screen out to Rhapsody, Live365, Yahoo, and the like. The screen takes on the order of 10-20 seconds to load. At least with this latest update they've moved all that crap along with showcases into a single menu that I can avoid. 

When I first booted my new TiVo HD a few months back I was immediately struck but how much nicer and cleaner the home screen looked, with the TiVo not having had time to download TiVo bug and Gold Star ads. I'm tuned to ignore them for the most part, but it was noticeably better with them not there.

I first started using TiVo right around the time of the introduction of the gold star. The conversation was very much the same as it is in this very thread. Some saying, "What's the big deal, you don't have to click it!" and others arguing that it was a distraction and a slippery slope. This argument has repeated at every turn as TiVo has introduced more and more advertising. It's clear that the slippery slope folks from back in the gold star days were right. 

Had TiVo introduced all of these advertisements at once - the gold stars, the now playing list ads, the tivo ads, the end of program gold stars, the pause screen ad - there would be an outcry over the hijacking of a consumer service. Instead they've done it slowly. Waiting for the furor to die down at every turn before hitting us with more advertising.

I'm honestly not bugged by most of it (other than the HME stuff, as I mentioned). After a few encounters, I'm able to completely tune it out. And maybe that's really the problem. The advertising quickly become ineffective on the large part of the install base so TiVo and their advertising partners look for a new way to throw something in our face. That eventually wears off so they look for something else.

It's a slippery slope, indeed.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

atmuscarella said:


> It doesn't.


Agreed. So much for the argument from those who say it helps make up for the lost revenue for the ads skipped. That's so much hooey. (I know you haven't promoted that viewpoint.)



atmuscarella said:


> TiVo hasn't been successful in developing a profitable model yet. They have the same choice as any business that isn't profitable - they can go out of business or find a way to become profitable. To become profitable TiVo must reduce costs and/or increase revenues. It appears Tivo believes increasing revenue with advertising $s is a viable way to become profitable. Given how well advertising has worked for the entertainment industry - who can blame them?
> 
> Thanks,


At the rate their subscriptions are falling off they will have to add more and more ads viewed by fewer and fewer subscribers until the last guy left will really have a bunch of them to look at.


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## slrcosmos (Dec 11, 2008)

Toni said:


> After a new update, those codes get wiped out. You just need to put it back in again. This is how I can tell when I've gotten an update, actually. When the codes stop working, I know something's changed.
> 
> Anyway just pause a show, click Clear to get rid of the More About crap, then do the Select-Play-Select-Pause-Select again and it will be back.


I did just exactly this after I initially got the Fall 2008 service update and it worked. However I got another service update last night (I know because the TiVO restarted while I watching TV) and now the code doesn't work. The technician I spoke to on the phone seemed to think it was because of the More Info addition.


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## Whittaker (Oct 11, 2004)

Toni said:


> Anyway just pause a show, click Clear to get rid of the More About crap, then do the Select-Play-Select-Pause-Select again and it will be back.


I can't get it to work.

I can't get used to the progress bar being on the screen. It's ruining my viewing pleasure.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

> But just like a politician you decided to ignore that the full quote was "_TV advertisers_ are facing a very serious commercial avoidance".
> 
> The commercial avoidance is NOT serious in the sense "it's wrong to do this" as your botched quote implies, but it's a serious issue for TV advertisers.


Out of respect for your more than 16,000 posts, I am not going to point out that you are a cretin, and that attacking me personally instead of replying to the subject is the sign of a weak mind.

The ENTIRE quote was in my post, right at the top, Stevie Wonder. How did you manage to miss that while you were composing your snide reply?



> How you or anyone can find anything "disingenuous" (do you know what that word means?) or offensive about this factual statement is beyond me.


Yes, yes I do know what that word means. Since it appears cogent thought is beyond you, let me spell it out for you: putting code into a machine which allows a 30 second skip that is SPECIFICALLY targeted at avoiding commercial advertising, and then making hand wringing public statements in press releases decrying the commercial avoidance inherent in DVRs, is disingenuous at best. As in: insincere, calculating, pretending to be unaware of the facts. Any of that sounding familiar?

Try to read this entire post before composing your insulting reply.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

dougdingle said:


> Out of respect for your more than 16,000 posts, I am not going to point out that you are a cretin, and that attacking me personally instead of replying to the subject is the sign of a weak mind.
> 
> The ENTIRE quote was in my post, right at the top, Stevie Wonder. How did you manage to miss that while you were composing your snide reply?
> 
> ...


Let me know where I was attacking you personally, and I'll apologize. Meanwhile, I think everyone can see who was using personal attacks.

The guy from TiVo was pointing out that TV advertisers are facing a serious issue because of DVRs like TiVo. I still don't know what is "insincere, calculating, pretending to be unaware of the facts" about pointing this obvious fact out. Disingenuous would have been to say that TiVo has no impact on advertisers.

Maybe you meant hypocritical.


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## Toni (Nov 23, 2002)

slrcosmos said:


> I did just exactly this after I initially got the Fall 2008 service update and it worked. However I got another service update last night (I know because the TiVO restarted while I watching TV) and now the code doesn't work. The technician I spoke to on the phone seemed to think it was because of the More Info addition.





Whittaker said:


> I can't get it to work.
> 
> I can't get used to the progress bar being on the screen. It's ruining my viewing pleasure.


Make sure that you are watching a show, and pause it... and make sure after you pause, that you clear the More About nag using the down arrow or clear button. Keep it paused when you put in the codes.

The Series 2 I'm watching right now has 9.3.2a which I think is the most recent update, and the codes are working for me using that procedure to put them in. I did opt out of Swivel, but the More About still shows up when I pause -- it just goes away fast enough with the codes installed that I don't care anymore.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

bicker said:


> No, you're just being a child. I should be used to it by now.


...and I should be smarter to think that you are anything other than _always right_.


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## Whittaker (Oct 11, 2004)

Toni said:


> Make sure that you are watching a show, and pause it... and make sure after you pause, that you clear the More About nag using the down arrow or clear button. Keep it paused when you put in the codes.
> 
> The Series 2 I'm watching right now has 9.3.2a which I think is the most recent update, and the codes are working for me using that procedure to put them in. I did opt out of Swivel, but the More About still shows up when I pause -- it just goes away fast enough with the codes installed that I don't care anymore.


I can't opt out of Swivel (or can I ?), as I never had it, because I only have TiVo Basic on my units. I was getting the "More About" banner right after the upgrade, but it went away, perhaps because I was trying the S-P-S-P-S ?, not sure. But it returned recently with some contest (?), but went away again after I was trying the S-P-S-P-S again. I should have seen if it went away on it's own or not.

Still can't get the progress bar to go away quickly.


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## dgf123 (Nov 29, 2008)

dougdingle said:


> Out of respect for your more than 16,000 posts, I am not going to point out that you are a cretin, and that attacking me personally instead of replying to the subject is the sign of a weak mind.
> 
> The ENTIRE quote was in my post, right at the top, Stevie Wonder. How did you manage to miss that while you were composing your snide reply?
> 
> ...


 Well said. Very well said indeed!


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RoyK said:


> I just wish somebody would explain to me how TiVo charging 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment to display a Horton ad over Sesame Street puts one dime in the coffers of National Public Broadcasting, The producers of Sesame Street, or anybody else except TiVo.


RoyK - the point is NOT that the current ads on TiVo are adding revenue to broadcasters.
The point is that finding the ad delivery that will work despite people FFing through 30 sec spot ads will pay off big for whoever comes up with it.
That does not currently help TiVo users nor content providers/broadcasters but it is the payoff TiVo sees that compels them to risk doing what they do now.
The fact is that the ad revenue Tivo gets from ads now is just a drop in the bucket to a possible payout they see in the future when broadcasters need to FIND a different way to present ads in order to keep selling ad spots for big revenue. It may not even be on a TiVo DVR but the technology sold to a variety of content delivery services.
For those not wanting ads on the TiVo now - the above possibilities is what they are really fighting.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

dgf123 said:


> I do realize that many people are skipping adds but the advertisors are not paying my Tivo bills of $20.00 each month. Myself and many others feel betrayed by Tivo when they cater to the advertisors and seem to be forgetting why many of us spent $1,100.00 for Tivo DVRS and $20.00 per month for "TV our way." and don't forget the $6.00 a month for cable cards. Thats my story and I'm stickin to it!


and the point is that when MANY people are using DVRs and not watching ads on any channel then the TV will not be there for you to watch your way. The ads pays the MILLIONS of dollars in bills to produce the content.
your 20$ a month would not even pay for the coffee they use as a prop on "two and a half men"
now if ONLY you were skipping ads then sure, it would be no big deal to the ad revenue model the TV industry uses.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

dougdingle said:


> and then making hand wringing public statements in press releases decrying the commercial avoidance inherent in DVRs


there was no hand wringing or decrying. To say so would be disingenuous.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> RoyK - the point is NOT that the current ads on TiVo are adding revenue to broadcasters.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You have been making the argument that the ads on TiVo are a good thing because people FF over ads with DVRs and the TV industry needs some way to replace lost revenues -- implying that ads on TiVo are a good thing and will do that. My response to that implication is that it's so much hooey.



ZeoTiVo said:


> The point is that finding the ad delivery that will work despite people FFing through 30 sec spot ads will pay off big for whoever comes up with it.
> That does not currently help TiVo users nor content providers/broadcasters but it is the payoff TiVo sees that compels them to risk doing what they do now.
> 
> The fact is that the ad revenue Tivo gets from ads now is just a drop in the bucket to a possible payout they see in the future when broadcasters need to FIND a different way to present ads in order to keep selling ad spots for big revenue.


So it doesn't benefit TiVo users and it doesn't benefit the content providers. Precisely my point as a TiVo user. It is of no benefit to me and it is a great annoyance. Sure it benefits TiVo - in the short term - if it brings in the hoped for revenue. But there was life before TiVo and there will be life after it. 


ZeoTiVo said:


> It may not even be on a TiVo DVR but the technology sold to a variety of content delivery services.
> For those not wanting ads on the TiVo now - the above possibilities is what they are really fighting.


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## dgf123 (Nov 29, 2008)

Exactly! Thanks RoyK


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> there was no hand wringing or decrying. To say so would be disingenuous.


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