# Black crush - anyone else have it?



## njmurvin (Apr 17, 2003)

I recently purchased a Maxent MX50X3 plasma display and connected it via component to my HDTivo at 1080i. I notice quite a bit of black crush on the display (i.e. swirling colors, lack of detail, etc. in dark scenes). It's not horrible, but it can be distracting. 

I haven't really observed it in DVD material, but I haven't watched that many DVDs on this set yet. It appears mostly in dark scenes. I wondered if HDMI would help any. I will be playing with the contrast and brightness to see if that will make a difference. I have seen this before when off-angle viewing an LCD. Does anyone else see this on a plasma?


----------



## duanej (Oct 28, 2004)

I see it on my plasma when viewing the SD channels. It's just life with D*'s over-compressed signal.


----------



## njmurvin (Apr 17, 2003)

duanej said:


> I see it on my plasma when viewing the SD channels. It's just life with D*'s over-compressed signal.


I don't watch much SD on this display. Do you ever see in in HD? That's where I've noticed it and it really is starting to bug me. Bright scenes and most dark scenes are no problem - just every once in awhile and only in a dark scene.


----------



## k2ue (May 9, 2002)

The HDNET Test pattern gray-scales look fine, and I can't sat I've seen any problems at all on my HDMI-DVI-connected DLP set.


----------



## pdawg17 (Mar 1, 2003)

Calibrating the set can definitely help...some say HDMI helps a little but hard to say...the quality of the source makes a difference too...calibrating would be the first step though (avia, etc)


----------



## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

The swirling colors is not technically black crush, or more accurately clipped negative signal peaks (although lack of detail usually is). That is noise, plain and simple. Usually that is due to poor production technique or poor equipment, in particular the camera or telecine camera if a film transfer. A good example is "Sunrise Earth" on Discovery HD, where some eps have terrific smooth response in the blacks, while other eps have a great deal of noise in the blacks. Unfortunately, quality is not consistent, and the better your display is, the easier these sorts of things are to notice.

To determine more accurately what the issue is, I recommend sampling a variety of programming. What we know for sure is that typically the HD channels on sat and locally do not have any significant amount of noisy blacks or black crush inherent in them.

Sometimes a pushed gamma setting can minimize this problem and give the perception of better black performance. But, bottom line, a modern properly performing plasma should not really have such an issue, assuming it turns out to be the display.

HDMI could appear a bit different, as the DAC in the plasma is in effect when using HDMI, while the DAC in the Tivo is in effect when using component. But again, a properly performing Tivo will also not have this problem on component or otherwise.


----------



## MiamiTV (Apr 8, 2003)

never a problem on a FUJITSU Plasma, if you pay for a great set, you don't have these kind of problems. We install only the best Plasmas at Home Media Center in Miami Beach. Since giving up on General used plasmas such as Samsung, LG and Panasonic. All there issues have gone away. You get what you pay for, thats for sure.


----------



## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

Hey MiamiTV, it sounds like you know plasmas, and possibly which are good and which are not so good. Are you saying that the problem might be the plasma itself?

I agree this is very possible, but it is also possible that the content itself has issues. Again, IMO nj should sample a lot of content to try to determine if it is really the set or the signal that is at the root of his problem, so that he can make an informed decision about what to do.

But, assuming it is the plasma, other than the Fuji, which do you rate as good or not so good? Where does nj's Maxent fall in this category? (be gentle)


----------



## njmurvin (Apr 17, 2003)

TyroneShoes said:


> But, assuming it is the plasma, other than the Fuji, which do you rate as good or not so good? Where does nj's Maxent fall in this category? (be gentle)


No need to be gentle . . . I can take it 

I have a hard time believing it's the display since most dark scenes appear fine. I would expect a problem with the display to manifest itself more consistently - but I certainly haven't ruled it out. I still suspect compression or poor source material. I will try HDMI to see how it compares.

FWIW, the Maxent MX-50X3 uses Panasonic glass. How much of the other internals are Panny remains a mystery. In general, I'm happy with it. Too bad there are no remote codes compatible with the HDTivo remote 

Worst case, I'll return it and get something else . . . I bought it at Costco for that very reason.


----------



## A J Ricaud (Jun 25, 2002)

njmurvin said:


> No need to be gentle . . . I can take it
> 
> I have a hard time believing it's the display since most dark scenes appear fine. I would expect a problem with the display to manifest itself more consistently - but I certainly haven't ruled it out. I still suspect compression or poor source material. I will try HDMI to see how it compares.
> 
> ...


Try searching for your TV model in the AVSforum. You may find some answers there. Also try Google and see if there are any reviews there.


----------



## njmurvin (Apr 17, 2003)

A J Ricaud said:


> Try searching for your TV model in the AVSforum. You may find some answers there. Also try Google and see if there are any reviews there.


I've done both . . . nothing specific to this make/model regarding black crush in AVS. In fact most discussions are around DVD players, not monitors.

The reviews are quite favorable. A couple of bad marks include the 3:2 pulldown and lower than average bandwidth. The pulldown is a non-issue because my dvd player is progressive scan. I do wonder, however, if the bandwidth issue may manifest itself in this way. Does anyone know how bandwidth affects the picture quality?


----------

