# I'm waiting



## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

I've participated in a lot of threads on this Tivo forum recently over DirecTV's replacement for the HR10-250 and decided to list my reasons for holding tight with Tivo to see what comes down the pike in the next few months.

I've done a lot of research including looking at other forums (such as dbstalk.com) to know that I wouldn't be happy with DirecTV's replacement box as it currently sits. 

My conclusions to that decision:

1. DirecTV decided to replace their current DTivo product line with boxes programmed by NDS. That turned out to be a major disaster, so they decided to come out with their own box for HD and even are currently in the process of replacing the NDS SD box with one of their own (H21).

2. Because of upcoming HD locals that are only available with mpeg4 receivers, DirecTV was forced to hurry the development of the box when the NDS box didn't work and ended up with a box that was not ready for release, but had to be anyway.

3. While the reliability of the replacement has gotten a lot better, I've seen some estimates that 1 in 5 new boxes have to be shipped back to DirecTV because they
don't work.

4. One of the great things about the Tivo is it's user interface (UI). A lot of Tivo users love how easy it is to control the box. We feel it is intuitive and easy to
understand. In fact many of us liked the box so much that we brought family and friends to DirecTV. But, we don't read those glowing endorsements of the new box. Instead, it seems to be more of a luke-warm attitude where most folks say they got used to it, but they would prefer a Tivo.

5. I wanted to try out the new box under a trial program so that if I didn't like the box, I could return it to DirecTV within a specified time. But, I was told by DirecTV that I was locked in for the 2-year commitment. That tells me that DirecTV realizes that this is not a quality box. 

6. DirecTV's approval ratings have dropped the farthest of all the major satellite and cable companies. Again, a major part of that has to be due to things like their
current dvrs.

I believe that DirecTV is anxious to lock us in to a two-year commitment in the hopes that they will have something that compares to the Tivo in terms of being
accepted by their customers by the end of the time frame.

What are the options? 

1. The obvious option is to go ahead, bite the bullet, put up with the misery, and get the HR20. Of course, that is the only option available for someone who feels
they need mpeg4 right now for locals (remember you don't necessarily get all locals showing in HD) and the upcoming nationals.

2. Wait a few months and see if there are any signs of change from the new owners once they get in place. This is the option I'm planning on taking. I think the next few months are crucial for those of us who love Tivo but would prefer to stay with DirecTV if possible. 

DirecTV is hoping that all of the excitement of the new HD channels will get the rest of us that are reluctant to hop on board their bandwagon. They want to turn off the mpeg2 HD channels asap and so every DTivo household they get to mpeg4 in the next few weeks/months means they are that much closer to shutting down one of our features in the HR10-250. (Yes, we'll still have the locals and mpeg2 SD so that means the HR10-250 will be functional.)

But the opposite of that is true. If there are a lot of us HR10-250 users that don't make the switch in the near term, DirecTV's new owners may look at their options
including a DTivo mpeg4 unit which I think the majority of us HR10-250 owners would prefer.

I think it's important to get DirecTV's attention and one way of doing that is with what we buy - and in this case don't buy that will get them reviewing their options, especially with new management looking with fresh eyes.

3. Leave DirecTV. There is a lot going on with switched HD video and this offers some opportunities for the cable companies to be able to offer more HD. Here again, the next few months are equally important to the cable companies and so one more reason I don't want to be locked in for 2 years. I think once this new technology gets in place, we'll be able to determine what our Tivo options will be.

A lot of people don't understand all the fuss about dvrs. That's fine and I'm sure they'll enjoy what DirecTV is offering today. But I think the time is crucial for those
of us who would prefer to have a DTivo mpeg4 option. And it seems to me the best option we have at the moment is to stand firm by not getting the replacement boxes and to let DirecTV know that.

Who knows, if enough of us wait, DirecTV may actually offer us something we want and will enjoy and will gladly sign up for another 2 years.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

My main reason for waiting is that DirecTV has yet to offer my HD locals (which are only ABC, CBS, Fox and PBS at the moment) and the big MPEG4 HD rollout hasn't happened yet. 

Heck, the new HR21 may be out by then.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

RS4 said:


> 5. I wanted to try out the new box under a trial program so that if I didn't like the box, I could return it to DirecTV within a specified time. But, I was told by DirecTV that I was locked in for the 2-year commitment. That tells me that DirecTV realizes that this is not a quality box.


This is one of the things that really has me miffed at D* ...no opportunity to return their stuff and get outta the (2 year) commitment if you don't like it.

I think it would be more than fair for D* to give users a 30 day window to give their equipment a try, and if they were unhappy with it be able to return it w/o consequence.

The "once you activate it...you're stuck with it" mentality doesn't instill confidence IMO, and they might get some more folks to give the HR20 a shot if they were just a little more flexible.


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## brott (Feb 23, 2001)

I'm pretty sure that you can return the HR20 without penalty. However, the two year programming commitment would stick. So you could use this option if you were certain that you wanted to stay with DIRECTV over the next two years. If your sole purpose for trying the HR20 is to see if it's worth it for you to stay with DIRECTV, then yes, this is a problem.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Broken record.

Broken record.

Broken record.

I think we all know where you stand, RS. Give it a rest.


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## dfioc (Sep 24, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> Broken record.
> 
> Broken record.
> 
> ...


+1. Time to come up with something new.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

dfioc said:


> +1. Time to come up with something new.


Hey now, we already have a "what's wrong with the HR20" thread, started by bonscott, and we now have a "why I won't go to the HR20" thread, so if we can keep rants against the HR20 in these two threads, I'll be happy. It will mean that any other thread that pops-up about asking a quick question about the HR20 can be simply answered and the thread should be allowed to die, rant-free and flame-free. I'm all for that.


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## fjwagner (Jan 22, 2006)

I am fine with my HR20. I like the Tivo better but what the heck. However, I am sick of these rants started every day with a different title. It is what it is. The technology is still pretty amazing as far as I am concerned, but Lost in Space was my favorite tv show.. Or maybe it was the Fugitive in black and white.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

RS4 said:


> I've done a lot of research including looking at other forums (such as dbstalk.com) to know that I wouldn't be happy with DirecTV's replacement box as it currently sits.


Translation - I'm a Tivo lemming and only believe what I read (as long as it's negative), and I don't have any free will to actually try something before making blanket statements that are based on absolutely no first hand experience.


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## dfioc (Sep 24, 2004)

Mark Lopez said:


> Translation - I'm a Tivo lemming and only believe what I read (as long as it's negative), and I don't have any free will to actually try something before making blanket statements that are based on absolutely no first hand experience.


It's "research" he's conducted. From reading RS4's posts, you get the distinct impression that any TIVO is the best piece of equipment ever invented, without faults and anyone who would think otherwise is an ignoramus.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

fjwagner said:


> ... but Lost in Space was my favorite tv show.. Or maybe it was the Fugitive in black and white.


<rant>Time Tunnel was much better!!!</rant>


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## dfioc (Sep 24, 2004)

rminsk said:


> <rant>Time Tunnel was much better!!!</rant>


The Twilight Zone or The Outer Limits rule!


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## fjwagner (Jan 22, 2006)

... doing my best to hijack the thread. Didn't miss Gunsmoke too often. None of this DVR stuff. You had to be in front of the TV at the prescribed time!


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## gio1269 (Jul 27, 2006)

RS4 said:


> I've participated in a lot of threads on this Tivo forum recently over DirecTV's replacement for the HR10-250 and decided to list my reasons for holding tight with Tivo to see what comes down the pike in the next few months.
> 
> I've done a lot of research including looking at other forums (such as dbstalk.com) to know that I wouldn't be happy with DirecTV's replacement box as it currently sits.
> 
> ...


WOW, you really are clueless. You also probably did NOT read the forums @ dbstalk.

Then again you don't read these forum much either. How many HR10 go back every few days? I had 3 HR10 die in 6 months! now a 4th going downhill until I fixed it.

Also he H21/R178 are STRIPPED DOWN versions of the H20/R16 not replacements because they are bad DVRs.

There is nothing wrong with loving your Tivo. But nothing wrong with others loving their new HR20. The UI is different, but I always thought the Hr10/Tivo were too kiddy lie for me.

MFG!


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Mark Lopez said:


> Translation - I'm a Tivo lemming and only believe what I read (as long as it's negative), and I don't have any free will to actually try something before making blanket statements that are based on absolutely no first hand experience.


Is it possible to try an HR20 without a two year commitment?

Seems like his list of options reflects more free will than just accepting whatever DirecTV wants to provide.


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## gio1269 (Jul 27, 2006)

nrc said:


> Is it possible to try an HR20 without a two year commitment?


Do you have a protection plan? Then say it died and get a new HR20 fro $19.99 shipped and you get to keep your Hr10.

Then if you don't like the HR20 deactivate it. Oh, then there is no 2 yr commit.

Unless you can talk customer mention into a trail period but I doubt it!

My HR10 kinda died so I had no choice. They sent the HR20 and told me to keep the HR10. I love the HR20 and fixed my HR10 (which I was VERY happy with.) back to smooth running 3.X software.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

gio1269 said:


> Do you have a protection plan? Then say it died and get a new HR20 fro $19.99 shipped and you get to keep your Hr10.


No, no protection plan.


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## gio1269 (Jul 27, 2006)

nrc said:


> No, no protection plan.


aad it and then get a HR20.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Based of the OP:

#1) You need to do some more research... the R15 was done by NDS, the HR20 is done by DirecTV... not NDS. While the GUI's look the same, they are different systems underneath... 

#2) Yes, it ceratinly was a factor in having to get the MPEG-4 DVR on the market, earlier then they probably really wanted to.

#3) Based on what time frame? The last year, which would include a significant number of returns due to software bugs, improper installations (with this box, was some of the first time these installers where including 5LNB hardware), and then genuine hardware issues with the box. (which has shown no major difference in occurence from any other CE device out there)

#4) The UI is 100% user opinion. We (at DBSTalk) have done "tests", and it shows that you can do just about everything on an DVR+ box, in the relative same number of button clicks (some take a few longer, others take a few less) as the TiVo...

I used TiVo for 5+ years before my first DVR+ system, and it took me nearly a month to learn the new GUI interface.... Yesterday, I had to fix my mother's SA TiVo (network connection), and wanted to throw that peanute through the TV screen, as I had to hunt for what I was looking for...(and that is only 2 years removed from being able to control a TiVo with my eyes closed)

#5) That has to be the BIGGEST farce of garbage that is being pushed out there. The commitments STARTED before the HR20+ system was even released (99% sure it was even before the R15)... And when it was released it applied to new (tothe customer) R10, HR10-250, as well as the D10/11/12 and H20 installations when it was first introduced... So I guess they realized those where not quality boxes too.

The Lease commitment has to do with two main components:
1) Ways to offset the costs of the box on the "financial" sheets... It was explained like that during the Q1 quarterly report.
2) To keep people from getting the expensive new hardware, at significantly subsidezed prices... and there being no opportunity to recoop the costs of the installations (which includes the dish, installer, time, let alone the boxes)

Here is a suggestion...
They should offer you the option to pre-pay the full costs of the installation... if you don't want to agree to the commitment... then at the end of the 30 days, you can get a credit on your account for the "difference". Since they are not going to send an installer out to take down the MPEG-4 dish and other related hardware... but you could easily ship back the HR20.

If after 30days, you don't contact them... you are immediately applied to a 2 year contract (retro active to activation date)

#6 - Where are the reports? What were the questions asked? Is it possible that it could have anything to do with the legnthy delay in getting the new HD content? Or that they have changed their customer service model, to get a little "tougher" with customers and not keeping giving them everything they demand?

-------------------
As for "options"

1) You could go with a non-dvr and just enjoy the MPEG-4 content live.

2) Sure you could wait, there is no penalty in waiting... Other then when you realize that there is going to be no differences when Liberty get's their major shares of the stock, that you now may have to wait 3+ months for installation (due to demand, availability of installers and hardware)

3) Has something changed, or is the S3 (or S3-Lite) going to be able to support Switched Video?.... the Cox integrated unit is no where to be found, and the Comcast one is not even in it first limited release market yet...


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## gio1269 (Jul 27, 2006)

Earl, off-topic question. But can the S3 be used in conjunction with a H20?

My good friend says his Dad is using one together like this., Something about an IR repeater and the S3 acts a VCR from the SAT box. Is this possible?

Thanks! PM me here if you can...


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

gio1269 said:


> Earl, off-topic question. But can the S3 be used in conjunction with a H20?
> 
> My good friend says his Dad is using one together like this., Something about an IR repeater and the S3 acts a VCR from the SAT box. Is this possible?
> 
> Thanks! PM me here if you can...


No, it can't...

The S3 doesn't include any type of ENCODERS, so it can't accept an external signal from a decoder box (which the H20 would be in this example).

As far as I understand the S3 (and the S3-Lite... or what ever they are going to call it), the single has to be a digital signal from an ATSC OTA feed, or a cable-card implementation.

So unless someone has come up with a device to modulate an external feed to an ATSC compatible feed... I don't know how your friend's Dad could be doing that.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

gio1269 said:


> aad it and then get a HR20.


No, thanks. I don't normally buy protection plans and I wouldn't want to lie just to get a trial of the HR20.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> No, it can't...
> 
> The S3 doesn't include any type of ENCODERS, so it can't accept an external signal from a decoder box (which the H20 would be in this example).
> 
> ...


While the Series 3 doesn't have the ability to CONTROL a STB, it ABSOLUTELY DOES have ENCODERS.

It can encode analog cable AND analog NTSC OTA.... Does NOT have to be digital.

The only way I could think he is doing it is recording it on an analog channel (say Channel 3) and using an RF output from a STB, but since it can't change the channel you would have to set up a manual recording on the S3 and a auto-tune on the STB. I don't know why anyone would bother with all of this...


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Adam1115 said:


> While the Series 3 doesn't have the ability to CONTROL a STB, it ABSOLUTELY DOES have ENCODERS.
> 
> It can encode analog cable AND analog NTSC OTA.... Does NOT have to be digital.
> 
> The only way I could think he is doing it is recording it on an analog channel (say Channel 3) and using an RF output from a STB, but since it can't change the channel you would have to set up a manual recording on the S3 and a auto-tune on the STB. I don't know why anyone would bother with all of this...


Well thank you for the correction then...
I was under the impression that the S3 only worked with pre-encoded digital signals.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> Well thank you for the correction then...
> I was under the impression that the S3 only worked with pre-encoded digital signals.


Nope, I record analog cable, and digital OTA.... works like a charm.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Adam1115 said:


> Nope, I record analog cable, and digital OTA.... works like a charm.


Odd then... why wouldn't they have included an input for composite inputs (and basically lock themselves out of external decoders).... either way...

Thanks for the correction.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> Odd then... why wouldn't they have included an input for composite inputs (and basically lock themselves out of external decoders).... either way...
> 
> Thanks for the correction.


My guess is that they didn't want to deal with the IR Blaster stuff / serial control cables, figuring most people would be using CableCards...

It would be nice, as I have Dish Network exclusively for HBO. I have to have a Series 2 record that as the Series 3 can't...


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## unclebrownie (Dec 31, 2001)

Still liked my Replay 2000 best of all even though it did not support DD 5.1 , 
used it with my 10' BUD & OTA feeds , 
UB


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

I keep coming to this site in hopes of news of Malone taking over directv and being open to some kind of deal with Tivo to replace the 10-250 with one that gets mpeg4. 
I read months ago that the takeover was supposed to be completed in July, but nothing since then. Since this thread is called "I'm waiting" it seemed appropriate to add - I'm waiting too.


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## sluciani (Apr 21, 2003)

Cudahy said:


> I keep coming to this site in hopes of news of Malone taking over directv and being open to some kind of deal with Tivo to replace the 10-250 with one that gets mpeg4.
> I read months ago that the takeover was supposed to be completed in July, but nothing since then. Since this thread is called "I'm waiting" it seemed appropriate to add - I'm waiting too.


Let me preface this by saying that I was a TiVo early adopter who has happily used at least one TiVo box on an uninterrupted basis for almost 8 years now. I still use an HDVR2, but I swapped my 4 HR10's for 4 HR20's back in March of this year.

The reasons why there is no longer any compelling reason for D* to make a deal with TiVo have been discussed ad nauseum. That being said, in the unlikely event that you're correct, are you willing to forego 50-75 new HD channels for the minimum year or two it would take to develop a new box, or for TiVo to rewrite the s/w so it runs on the HR20 platform? Remember, it's taken TiVo almost 3 years to develop the Comcast s/w.

I wasn't willing to wait for the MPEG-4 programming. I wanted to see my Yankees in HD on a daily basis, and the HR20 was the only way I could do this and stick with D*. There was no bigger TiVo fanatic than me, and after using the HR20 for the past few months, I can honestly say that given a choice today between the HR20 and an MPEG-4 HR10, I would stick with the HR20.

For those on the fence, I say try the HR20. If D* ever makes a deal with TiVo, you can always switch back. I doubt you will feel the need to, however.

Just my .02. /s


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

sluciani said:


> are you willing to forego 50-75 new HD channels


Could you tell me how I can tune in these 50-75 new HD stations on an HR20?


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Redux said:


> Could you tell me how I can tune in these 50-75 new HD stations on an HR20?


You'll know on or around Sept 16th.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Cudahy said:


> I keep coming to this site in hopes of news of Malone taking over directv and being open to some kind of deal with Tivo to replace the 10-250 with one that gets mpeg4.
> I read months ago that the takeover was supposed to be completed in July, but nothing since then. Since this thread is called "I'm waiting" it seemed appropriate to add - I'm waiting too.


It will be later this year before approval is given. Even then Malone is already talking about selling DirecTV right away. Anybody hoping something is going to happen with Tivo is just fooling themselves. Even if Malone were to decide to bring Tivo back in it would be at least 3 years from now before anything would be to market. By then the number of subs left with Tivo still sticking it out would be pretty tiny.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

bonscott87 said:


> Even if Malone were to decide to bring Tivo back in it would be at least 3 years from now before anything would be to market.


Why would you say that. They have already written the software for the DirecTV program guides and such. I'm sure they would base the "new" DirecTiVo off the HR10-250 design with different tuners. The reason Comcast has taken so long is they were porting TiVo software to non-TiVo hardware.


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## rjnerd (May 28, 2007)

rminsk said:


> Why would you say that. They have already written the software for the DirecTV program guides and such. I'm sure they would base the "new" DirecTiVo off the HR10-250 design with different tuners. The reason Comcast has taken so long is they were porting TiVo software to non-TiVo hardware.


They would also have to upgrade the decoder hardware to cope with mpeg-4. I wonder if they are using off-the-shelf decoders for mpeg-2. If so, I bet a mpeg-4 that mostly just drops in would be available. (its never simple, but it may not be that bad) As far as the tivo software is concerned, they are just files. It doesn't really do any processing on the actual image data, if for no other reason than the CPU doesn't have the horsepower to do anything beyond shuffling them around.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

rjnerd said:


> They would also have to upgrade the decoder hardware to cope with mpeg-4.


and you are claiming that is going to take 3 years... That should only take a few months to develop and test.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

I say 3 years for the following reasons:

1) Assuming Malone keeps DirecTV it will be another 4-6 months before all the i's are dotted and t's are crossed.
2) Then figure at least 6 months of Liberty figuring out what they have. They don't have those details now as it's illegal. 
3) So we're talking probably a year out before any decision would be made one way or another. By that time it's been 2 years since the HR20 (and maybe it's successor) has been out and millions of new HD subs signed up due to the HD expansion. Tivo units left in service as the only HD unit will be few and far between.
4) Now let's say Liberty and Malone decide it's time to bring Tivo back in. Now let look at history. It took well over 2 years to bring the HR10 to market and many back then were saying "well it's just a DirecTivo with HD decoders". Comcast Tivo has been in development nearly 3 years and it's still not out yet. You don't just design and manufacture these things in a matter of months. It takes time. So minimum 2 years.

So assuming Malone actually keeps DirecTV *and* decides it's a good idea to go with Tivo, we're talking 3 years out. Maybe 2-2.5 on a fast track. Sure I'm speculating but there is no way it's just a matter of a few months, things just don't work that way in the consumer electronics industry.

Now if you add into the mix that Liberty is already looking to resell DirecTV, that will take a years worth of time or more. So tack on another year to the estimate.

Hey, I'm all for you guys to hang on and wait. Heck, DirecTV would love that, they are still getting $50+ bucks a month out of you. Just don't be expecting anything anytime soon, even in a best case scenario. In the meantime you'll be out all the new HD channels, either from cable, Dish or DirecTV. I wish you good luck.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

bonscott87 said:


> I say 3 years for the following reasons:
> 
> 1) Assuming Malone keeps DirecTV it will be another 4-6 months before all the i's are dotted and t's are crossed.
> 2) Then figure at least 6 months of Liberty figuring out what they have. They don't have those details now as it's illegal.
> ...


You said in an earlier post "Even if Malone were to decide to bring TiVo back in...". So arguments one through three do not apply. In argument four you are finally getting to your original post. The HR10-250 took so long because it was the first HD DVR. It is not a "DirecTivo with HD decoders", it has to handle a bunch more bandwidth and the added OTA tuners. No DVRs before it had OTA tuners. TiVo now knows how to do that. The Comcast TiVo is porting the TiVo software to Comcasts already existing box and is not running on TiVo hardware so that argument does not apply.


> Hey, I'm all for you guys to hang on and wait. Heck, DirecTV would love that, they are still getting $50+ bucks a month out of you. Just don't be expecting anything anytime soon, even in a best case scenario. In the meantime you'll be out all the new HD channels, either from cable, Dish or DirecTV. I wish you good luck.


I also have in my direct control four HR20s. They still can not be trusted to record what I want when I want without hand holding. Until DirecTVs DVR can do that I am keeping the HR10-250 as my primary receiver and hoping that there may be a new DirecTiVo in the future.


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## rjnerd (May 28, 2007)

rminsk said:


> and you are claiming that is going to take 3 years... That should only take a few months to develop and test.


I have made no claims as to how long it would take Tivo to develop a successor to the h10-250. Someone else out a time frame on it.

I hope it wouldn't take them that long...


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Hey, believe what you want. It takes a lot of time to bring a device to market in the consumer electronics world. 2 year cycle is the fast track. But again, believe what you want, no skin off my back. DirecTV certainly doesn't care, you're still paying them monthly which is all they care about.

And FYI that the HR10 was not the first HD DVR nor the first to integrate OTA. Dish network had theirs out nearly a year before the HR10 was out.


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## sluciani (Apr 21, 2003)

rminsk said:


> I also have in my direct control four HR20s. They still can not be trusted to record what I want when I want without hand holding. Until DirecTVs DVR can do that I am keeping the HR10-250 as my primary receiver and hoping that there may be a new DirecTiVo in the future.


I have four as well, and can't recall ever missing a recording since I installed them in March. I have about 35 series links set up.

I am not saying you're not having recording issues with your HR20s, but feel I need to demonstrate to fence-straddlers that your experience may be unique. If you search the DBSTalk HR20 forums for missed recordings, you'll see very little posted there, compared to the same search on TCF's HDTiVo forum. AFAIK, there are significantly more HR20s in the field than HR10s. /s


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

It could just as easily be possible that there could be a Tivo HD mpeg4 satellite product within a year. Tivo just came out with yet another HD product. They have developed products for DirecTV before and are familiar with a lot of that technology. Who's to say that DirecTV can't just license the technology to Tivo and let Tivo develop their own product, sold separately from DirecTV?

There are all kinds of possibilities where both companies could benefit and we as customers of both could benefit too. There are a group of us who have come to love the Tivo interface and would prefer to stay with Tivo. Heck, a lot of us would probably even pay a premium to stay with Tivo. 

Open systems have always been the best for customers. The classic is the PC vs the Mac. IBM released its specs for the PC while Mac held on to theirs. I can't imagine why DirecTV wouldn't be open to outside vendors if it meant a larger client base that was more satisfied with their experience. It's absolutely stupid to cut off a big spending base and that's whats happening here.

Time will tell, but I'm still hoping that DirecTV will see it is worth their while to form some kind of continuing relationship with Tivo. By the end of the year when the hoopla has settled down over HD, I'm betting there are still a large group of us who have not signed up for a 2-yr commitment with a product we don't want. It doesn't make sense to me that a company purposely cuts off it's market potential by alienating an important client segment.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

> I am not saying you're not having recording issues with your HR20s, but feel I need to demonstrate to fence-straddlers that your experience may be unique.


I look at dbstalk all the time and it appears that their are still a significant number of folks missing their recordings as rminsk is.

The fence straddlers need to do a lot of careful research to make up their minds. CNET News.com did a review of the HR20 a few months ago and pointed out that they had an unusually high number of people responding that they were losing recordings. Apparently, the latest release of the software caused some people to lose their recordings during the upgrade.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

sluciani said:


> I have four as well, and can't recall ever missing a recording since I installed them in March. I have about 35 series links set up.
> 
> I am not saying you're not having recording issues with your HR20s, but feel I need to demonstrate to fence-straddlers that your experience may be unique. If you search the DBSTalk HR20 forums for missed recordings, you'll see very little posted there, compared to the same search on TCF's HDTiVo forum. AFAIK, there are significantly more HR20s in the field than HR10s. /s


No, his experience is anything but unique, for I've had the exact same problems (I don't_ own_ 4 HR20's ...but this is my 4th unit  ).

In my experience, the box requires quite a bit of babysitting. It still misses recordings from time to time, and rather than continue to complain about it ....this has been going on for about a year ...I've just learned to live with it in hopes that it will soon be corrected.

I suspect that there are quite a few with similar experiences. Indeed, the performance of the HR20 has improved over the last few months which certainly has pacified many...but it's still not to be trusted in our household.

I'm happy that your experience has been error free, and hope it stays that way for you.


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## sluciani (Apr 21, 2003)

Sir_winealot said:


> No, his experience is anything but unique, for I've had the exact same problems (I don't_ own_ 4 HR20's ...but this is my 4th unit  ).
> 
> In my experience, the box requires quite a bit of babysitting. It still misses recordings from time to time, and rather than continue to complain about it ....this has been going on for about a year ...I've just learned to live with it in hopes that it will soon be corrected.
> 
> ...


It could be that I didn't start using my HR20's until late March, and the missed recording problems were resolved by then. Or it could be a guide data issue for others, and I just don't record those shows, so I don't see the problem.

While there are other things I'd like to see improved on the HR-20, I can honestly say that missed recordings aren't among them. /steve


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

I doubt it would take Tivo that long to put out a new box. If they really think Malone may be receptive to an offer, they haven't been sitting on their hands.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

Of course it's not going to take Tivo 3 years to develop a follow-on product. Look how quickly Tivo came out with the new HD.

Scott seems to enjoy spreading FUD and then being amazed when we point it out. Some of the guys like him are so close to the other box, they're doing everything possible to bring the rest of us into the group. They can't admit that a large number of Tivo users don't like the box. 

I have no trouble with them answering questions about the HR20, but I laugh at some of their tactics to win over Tivo enthusiasts. 

The interesting question is how many of us will still be looking for an alternative at the end of the year when the new HD channels are up and we are still meg4 free? If we haven't signed up by then what are they going to do? 

It just doesn't make sense to me that Tivo can't build a new product fairly quickly based off the HR10-250, and the 2 other HD boxes they have. That can happen in months - not years.


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## Howie (May 3, 2004)

RS4 said:


> The interesting question is how many of us will still be looking for an alternative at the end of the year when the new HD channels are up and we are still meg4 free? If we haven't signed up by then what are they going to do?


I can assure you, the vast majority of us could not give a hoot* what your TV watching status is come the end of the year. We will just be enjoying all of our new HD content.

*stronger word can be substituted if preferred


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

RS4 said:


> Of course it's not going to take Tivo 3 years to develop a follow-on product. Look how quickly Tivo came out with the new HD.
> 
> [...]
> 
> It just doesn't make sense to me that Tivo can't build a new product fairly quickly based off the HR10-250, and the 2 other HD boxes they have. That can happen in months - not years.


Seriously? 

Let's suppose DIRECTV and TiVo strike a deal again. It will take months just to renegotiate that contract.

Now consider the versions of the TiVo software. HD TiVo DIRECTV receivers are stuck at software version 6.x, while Series 3 HD receivers are at 8.x, and who knows what the Comcast/Cox TiVo DVRs will be at.

How long did it take TiVo to get the software ported to the Comcast boxes? And then how long has it taken them to test that software? And it still hasn't made it's way into Joe Sixpack's home yet, has it?

If TiVo resumes development for DIRECTV, do they port the 8.x software branch to the MPEG4 DIRECTV receivers? Or do they start from the 6.x software branch? Or do they start from scratch? Whichever way, TiVo would need to add support for the current Music & Photos feature and the upcoming Video-on-Demand feature, as well as external hardware (such as the SWM switch) and any other new features DIRECTV has developed and will develop by the time this supposed new MPEG4 TiVo is released.

Let's say they keep it simple and start with 6.x and port it to MPEG4. They still need to add Music & Photos, VOD and SWM support. They need to test their upgrades on MPEG4 hardware with various configurations: 1 sat line with no SWM, 1 sat line with SWM, 2 sat lines (no SWM). Then, being TiVo, they need to put the upgraded software and the MPEG4 boxes into private beta testing. Still within "months"? I don't thinks so. Then they need to do all the back-end negotiations with DVR manufacturers (Pace, RCA, etc.) to get the software to them for deployment. When they're fnally done with that 1.5 to 2 years later, they'll be releasing a DVR that is several generations old (as far as TiVo software goes).

I don't see TiVo coming back to develop for DIRECTV, but to humor you, if they did, they certainly aren't rolling out a DVR within 2 years after any deal is renewed.



RS4 said:


> The interesting question is how many of *us* will still be looking for an alternative at the end of the year when the new HD channels are up and *we* are still meg4 free? If *we* haven't signed up by then what are *they* going to do?


Note: Bold emphasis above added by me.

Are you concerned about yourself or someone else, because the last "they" is confusing. I just don't get the question at all, because if you don't upgrade to a new MPEG4 HD receiver from DIRECTV receiver, you will clearly not have MPEG4 at the end of the year, and you *may* have no HD from DIRECTV at that time. I don't know when the shutdown of the MPEG2 HD channels will occur, but it's coming. Whether it's at the end of the year or not is not known, so all you can do is prepare for the eventual shutdown of MPEG2 HD.

You know what the alternatives are: Cable DVR, Comcast/Cox TiVo DVR (someday), TiVo Series 3 Premium or Lite DVR with CableCards, TiVo Series 2 SA with cable or satellite set-top-box, FIOS DVR, DISH DVR, DIRECTV using HR10 as an SD DVR, or DIRECTV using a new MPEG4 DVR.

It's your call what you want to do, and no matter how hard you wish for it, there will not be a solution at the end of the year that has TiVo software running on an MPEG4 DIRECTV receiver.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Howie said:


> I can assure you, the vast majority of us could not give a hoot* what your TV watching status is come the end of the year. We will just be enjoying all of our new HD content.


I'm unimpressed by your psychic powers. My crystal ball shows clearly that you will instead be spending lots of time on forums carping about the lack of actual HD content on your new HD channels.

I quote from your post of January 14th, 2008: "A&E HD? Who really gives a hoot* about zoomed SD WWII footage?"


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## Howie (May 3, 2004)

nrc said:


> I'm unimpressed by your psychic powers. My crystal ball shows clearly that you will instead be spending lots of time on forums carping about the lack of actual HD content on your new HD channels.
> 
> I quote from your post of January 14th, 2008: "A&E HD? Who really gives a hoot* about zoomed SD WWII footage?"


I predict that your clairvoyance has been (or will be) adversely affected by the time/space continuum at some point in the distant past (or near future).


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

Drew, I never said we would have a Tivo replacement by the end of the year. I was trying to point out the a Tivo replacement could probably built off of existing products - the HR10-250, and the Series 3 and HD boxes - but that is not going to take 3 or even 2 years. Yes, Tivo needs to add in mpeg4 and the new signaling from DirecTV, but I'm guessing that technology could be licensed from DirecTV or assisted by DirecTV's engineers. It becomes an issue of putting existing pieces together - not redoing a box like they've had to do with Cox and Comcast.

As for the VOD and other features, we already know that Tivo has some capabilities for some of that. Why would their first version of the new technology even need to include the VOD? There is nothing wrong with features missing. We know that many of us bought DTivos knowing the Tivo had functions that DirecTV never did turn on. But, we still enjoyed our TV experience.

As for the negotiations, how do you know that they are not negotiating right now? Of course none of us know what's happening right now, but I think it makes sense that they will have an idea of the market by early next year. We already know that Tivo has expressed a renewed interest. So, by early next year we should know their intentions, especially if there are still a significant number of Tivo users without mpeg4. 

I don't think mpeg2 HD will be dropped before the Super Bowl, so that gives all of us plenty of time to decide what we'll be doing. You can also bet that mpeg2 HD will not be turned off if there are still a lot of DTivo only households.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

RS4 said:


> As for the negotiations, how do you know that they are not negotiating right now?


Because that would be illegal. Malone can't negotiate on behalf of a company he doesn't own yet. Malone doesn't even know what the books or ongoing future plans for DirecTV look like, again, illegal (believe me, my company went thru a merger a few years ago, there are so many rules and laws here it's not even funny). If Charlie from Dish got wind of anything out of the ordinary you know he'd bring down the hammer.

Now that doesn't mean something shady isn't going on but if so they better not get caught.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

RS4 said:


> Drew, I never said we would have a Tivo replacement by the end of the year. I was trying to point out the a Tivo replacement could probably built off of existing products - the HR10-250, and the Series 3 and HD boxes - but that is not going to take 3 or even 2 years. Yes, Tivo needs to add in mpeg4 and the new signaling from DirecTV, but I'm guessing that technology could be licensed from DirecTV or assisted by DirecTV's engineers. It becomes an issue of putting existing pieces together - not redoing a box like they've had to do with Cox and Comcast.


Wow, that's all I can say. All new TiVo development has long ago branched from 6.x, so to suddenly put features from the 8.x software into that 6.x line is not going to be easy. Also, you're saying TiVo should get help from DIRECTV's engineers, but aren't the same people you keep denigrating for what you call a poor HR20 design, both software and hardware? Given all of the issues I posted earlier, I still see no way a TiVo MPEG4 DIRECTV DVR could be produced in anything LESS than a year.



> As for the VOD and other features, we already know that Tivo has some capabilities for some of that. Why would their first version of the new technology even need to include the VOD?


You just answered the question then of why should DIRECTV not go back to TiVo. VOD is a huge part of DIRECTV's future, and will be a major selling point to attract cable customers and convert them to DIRECTV customers. To not put VOD on any "new" TiVo MPEG4 receiver would be a step backwards.



> As for the negotiations, how do you know that they are not negotiating right now? Of course none of us know what's happening right now, but I think it makes sense that they will have an idea of the market by early next year. We already know that Tivo has expressed a renewed interest. So, by early next year we should know their intentions, especially if there are still a significant number of Tivo users without mpeg4.


Again - how does that help you at the end of THIS year, if there are no HD DIRECTV channels your HR10 can record? It's fine that TiVo is trying to open that door again, but look who's running DIRECTV ... John Malone, who it is well known is now considering turning around and selling his shares of DIRECTV. In other words, Liberty may have control of DIRECTV for only a short time before someone else comes along. Changing hands meaning re-examining priorities and that in itself pushes back any dramatic changes, such as re-inviting TiVo to develop for DIRECTV.



> I don't think mpeg2 HD will be dropped before the Super Bowl, so that gives all of us plenty of time to decide what we'll be doing. You can also bet that mpeg2 HD will not be turned off if there are still a lot of DTivo only households.


I hope for your sake you're right about the timing, but again ... I don't see anything changing within the next year that will let you keep watching HD from DIRECTV on your TiVo.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

bonscott87 said:


> Because that would be illegal. Malone can't negotiate on behalf of a company he doesn't own yet. Malone doesn't even know what the books or ongoing future plans for DirecTV look like, again, illegal (believe me, my company went thru a merger a few years ago, there are so many rules and laws here it's not even funny).


First of all I don't believe there's any agreement in the works right now. Unless there's something in DTV's detailed books that hasn't been obvious in the public financials there's just nothing there to compel it at this point. But on the second point you're wrong. Liberty has gone through a due dilligence period with DTV where they've been able to get a detailed view of DTV's books. It's standard procedure in a buy-out or merger.

http://sec.edgar-online.com/2007/04/27/0001047469-07-003299/Section23.asp


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

nrc said:


> First of all I don't believe there's any agreement in the works right now. Unless there's something in DTV's detailed books that hasn't been obvious in the public financials there's just nothing there to compel it at this point. But on the second point you're wrong. Liberty has gone through a due dilligence period with DTV where they've been able to get a detailed view of DTV's books. It's standard procedure in a buy-out or merger.
> 
> http://sec.edgar-online.com/2007/04/27/0001047469-07-003299/Section23.asp


I'm sure you're right on the financials but they can't see any intellectual property (i.e. anything to do with hardware, future plans or product lines, etc). We had that in my company. We had to keep the company buying us away from any of our product development and couldn't share any information until "Day 1" when the officially owned us. Then the floodgates were opened.


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## sluciani (Apr 21, 2003)

Fact: DirecTV added 235,000 subscribers in Q1 2007.
Fact: 1/3 of those were either HD or DVR subscribers (78,333)
Guess: 1/3 of those were HD DVR subscribers (26,111)
Fact: D*'s monthly average churn rate was 1.44% (by comparison, it was 1.5% in 2003, derived from 18% annual churn).

So if my guess is correct, DirecTV shipped about 290 HR20's per day in the first quarter of this year (and probably as many per day since), and they are retaining a similar 98.5% of their customers.

Given that the bulk of the HR20 development costs are already behind them, these subscriber numbers make it difficult for me to imagine that D* has any financial incentive to pay TiVo to develop a new DVR (and to continue to share any monthly "DVR fee" revenue with them).

Just my .02.

/steve


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

sluciani said:


> Fact: D*'s customer churn rate was under 1.5% (by comparison, it was 18% in 2003).


Fact: Your numbers are incorrect.

DTV's average monthly churn in 2003 was 1.5% for the full year, the lowest they'd had in four years. 
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=570777&highlight=

Q1 average monthly churn this year was 1.44% a slight improvement over last years 1.45% attributed mainly to avoiding higher risk subscribers.
http://research.finance.myway.com/c...&secDetails=10-Q*05/10/2007*DIRECTV GROUP INC

You're confusing annual churn and monthly average churn.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

bonscott87 said:


> I'm sure you're right on the financials but they can't see any intellectual property (i.e. anything to do with hardware, future plans or product lines, etc). We had that in my company. We had to keep the company buying us away from any of our product development and couldn't share any information until "Day 1" when the officially owned us. Then the floodgates were opened.


No, that's incorrect. During the due dilligence process gaining insight on intellectual property and strategic plans is an important part of the process. Anything relevant to the valuation of the company is fair game.



> *1. What should I expect from the due diligence process?*
> Generally, the information that an acquirer expects is broken down into the following categories:
>  General Corporate Matters
>  Financial, Accounting, and Taxes
> ...


(PDF)

Either you're confusing the period prior to the initial agreement with the due dilligence period, your company instructed the rank and file employees not to provide information in order to channel the information and ensure that only the information requested was supplied, your merger was under extremely unusual terms, or your company hid information from their merger partner (which could eventually bring a civil suit if things go sour).

Malone likely knows exactly where DTV stands on DVRs from a financial, technology, and intellectual property standpoint. At a minimum the due diligence committee will have informed them if there is a risk in the DVR strategy New Corp has followed.


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## sluciani (Apr 21, 2003)

nrc said:


> You're confusing annual churn and monthly average churn.


I missed that... thanks for pointing it out. I'll edit my post above.

Doesn't change the intent of my post, tho, because churn is no higher since the HR20... D*'s apparently not losing customers at a higher rate as a result of no longer offering TiVo. /s


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

nrc said:


> Either you're confusing the period prior to the initial agreement with the due dilligence period, your company instructed the rank and file employees not to provide information in order to channel the information and ensure that only the information requested was supplied, your merger was under extremely unusual terms, or your company hid information from their merger partner (which could eventually bring a civil suit if things go sour).


I just posted what happened to us no big deal and kinda off topic. But we are in the Pharmaceutical industry. I controlled the document management system all our compound and research data was in. The company buying us *could not* have access to any of this data. Period. Millions in fines and possible stopping of the merger by the FTC and FDA if they got our data. Now I don't know what happened way above us say in terms of overall high level strategy of various products but they could not have any details. On "Day 1" I was pretty busy giving all the people from the buying company access to our data. Perhaps it's just different in our industry since it's dealing with drugs and billions of billions of dollars in terms of patents and so forth.

Anyway, maybe has nothing to do with this. I'm only pointing out that Malone will only have a high level feel at most when it comes to the direction that DirecTV is heading down, unless media companies operate under different restrictions. He'll have to wait until "Day 1" to get all the details and really see what's going on.

Either way, it's a delay of probably 6 months from Day 1 until a new direction, if needed, is started. Heck, our company spent over a year before any new direction happened and it was nearly a year after that before anything really changed. It really takes time to do these things. And trying to resell the company like Malone is trying to do doesn't speed things up any. 

Obviously just my opinion.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

Of course D* is not losing customers from the HR20 mess. They have them locked in for 2 years, so we wouldn't expect to see a lot of them going. DirecTV has 2 years to win them over.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

RS4 said:


> Of course D* is not losing customers from the HR20 mess. They have them locked in for 2 years, so we wouldn't expect to see a lot of them going. DirecTV has 2 years to win them over.


So everyone out there is willing to stick with this product....  and pay that monthly fee... which would eclipse the cancel fee, in just a few months...

And not even consider that most of the other vendors out there have plans in place to offset any penalty that you would have to pay to DirecTV...

But alas... it is the consipiracy theory again... lets lock them in for 2 years with the crappy box....

Even though the commitment plan, started way before ANY DVR+ system was released (And was in place for the DTiVos as well in the later days)

2 year marker is comming up in November for the R15... let's see the mass exidous begin...


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## ben0210 (Feb 4, 2007)

You guys are too much! All this talk and name calling over TV! If we could harness your guy's energy into something more important than watching TV, man, we could eliminate cancer, world hunger, aids etc..! My .02 cents!!!


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

ben0210 said:


> You guys are too much! All this talk and name calling over TV! If we could harness your guy's energy into something more important than watching TV, man, we could eliminate cancer, world hunger, aids etc..! My .02 cents!!!


But then, you too are here posting.....


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## sluciani (Apr 21, 2003)

RS4 said:


> Of course D* is not losing customers from the HR20 mess.


It's your characterization of the HR20 as a "mess" that causes me (and others) to continue to post here, to try to bring some balance to this thread.

No one is a bigger TiVo fan than me. I've used at least one TiVo non-stop since the fall of '99, and that unit is still being used today by my son. I still use an HDVR2 on my SD Sony 27". I reluctantly turned in my 4 HR10's for 4 HR20's back in March because I wanted to watch the Yankee games in HD every day, even before I heard about the potential for up to 100 HD channels by the end of the year.

While I feared I would be unhappy with the HR-20, turns out I have no regrets. So much so that if I was now offered a choice between an MPEG-4 HR-10 or the HR-20, I would choose the HR-20. Besides the huge performance improvement, there are enough nice little things the HR20 does that the TiVo doesn't, that I would consider returning a step-backwards.

Just my .02. Others who have switched may feel differently.

/steve


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

Malone was supposed to finally take over in July. What's happened?
I haven't seen any post on what Malone's view of Tivo is.
I haven't seen anyone deny that he could make some extra money and retain more customers if he reached an agreement with Tivo. 
Tivo is well aware that they would have to have box out by next Summer when the HD expansion is completed; they probably wouldn't even be attempting it if they didn't think they could do it.


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## sluciani (Apr 21, 2003)

Cudahy said:


> I haven't seen anyone deny that he could make some extra money and retain more customers if he reached an agreement with Tivo.


Well you may not agree with my opinion, but I thought that I was suggesting there was no more money to be made in my posts here and here. 


> Tivo is well aware that they would have to have box out by next Summer when the HD expansion is completed; they probably wouldn't even be attempting it if they didn't think they could do it.


It's my understanding that the HD expansion will be complete by the end of this year. But either way, who says TiVo is attempting anything at all, vis a vis D*? Did I miss an announcement? /steve


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> So everyone out there is willing to stick with this product.... and pay that monthly fee... which would eclipse the cancel fee, in just a few months...
> 
> And not even consider that most of the other vendors out there have plans in place to offset any penalty that you would have to pay to DirecTV...
> 
> ...


Just curious though, isn't this policy new? (Sorry I canceled when the series 3 came out.. so I honestly don't know..) I always thought you could cancel any time and just send your equipment back.. is that not the case now?


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Adam1115 said:


> Just curious though, isn't this policy new? (Sorry I canceled when the series 3 came out.. so I honestly don't know..) I always thought you could cancel any time and just send your equipment back.. is that not the case now?


Since the start of the commitment program, there has always been a cancel fee (Based on $12.50 per month remaining in the commitment)

At the beginning it was thought that if you just sent back the hardware, that would eliminate it.... nope.

Then when the leasing program came around, it became a requirement to send back the equipment when deactivating (the system), or terminating your account.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

> It's your characterization of the HR20 as a "mess" that causes me (and others) to continue to post here, to try to bring some balance to this thread.


I'd suggest you folks look at more than just your HR20 forum. What you'll find is that DirecTV is slipping much faster than any of it's competitors in customer satisfaction. You'll also find that not even half the people in poll at Engadget feel the HR20 is not ready for prime time.

Some of you folks are so close to the HR20 that you have trouble accepting that DirecTV does not enjoy a good reputation at the moment, especially with the HR20. The numbers speak a different story.


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

RS4 said:


> You'll also find that not even half the people in poll at Engadget feel the HR20 is not ready for prime time


You are in good company, Shakespeare has some sentences like that. But basically you've got either one too many or one too few negatives.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

RS4 said:


> I'd suggest you folks look at more than just your HR20 forum. What you'll find is that DirecTV is slipping much faster than any of it's competitors in customer satisfaction. You'll also find that not even half the people in poll at Engadget feel the HR20 is not ready for prime time.
> 
> Some of you folks are so close to the HR20 that you have trouble accepting that DirecTV does not enjoy a good reputation at the moment, especially with the HR20. The numbers speak a different story.


That poll? 

How can a question like "Is the HR20 ready for primetime" have three answers? "Yes", "Almost There", and "No".

How many people have the same definition of "almost there"? Person A says it records 90% of their programs, but because it's missing 10%, it's "almost there". Person B says it records 100% of their programs, but even though it's 100% effective for them, it's missing a feature they want, so until the HR20 gets that feature, it's "almost there". Two completely different points of view that the poll doesn't adequately capture.

Oh, and by the way, how many TiVo users voted "not ready" out of spite?

Let's not even get into the validity of the poll statistically.

You keep wishing what you want, and in a couple of months, when I'll be enjoying an expanded HD line up and Video On Demand, let's compare notes again.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

And RS4, seriously, when you quote someone - keep their name with the text, so people know who you are quoting!

Either hit the "Quote" button, or add quote tags like this:

[ quote=name] text here [ /quote]

(Just remove the space after the opening bracket in each tag.)


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

drew2k said:


> Oh, and by the way, how many TiVo users voted "not ready" out of spite?


I did not vote in the poll but I would of voted "not ready" out of experience and not out of spite.


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## ciaramellam (Jul 26, 2007)

Direct TV users need to speak up. Send an email via your online account and a service rep will call you back in 24-48 hours. I was completely shocked when a very nice woman called me back on a sunday to answer my query. I explained the whole Direct TV needs to re-join with Tivo to produce a Direct TV dual tuner HD Tivo. She submitted my request as a customer suggestion and indicated that, as with all things, if enough folks submitted similar requests that a favorable change would be more likely. Although she would not official comment on the new ownership or the direction of the company, I got the distinct impression that she has heard my request ad nauseum (sp?). Heck: if fanboys can get Jerico back on the air, we can't Direct TV users get what they want as well...?


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

> drew2k And RS4, seriously, when you quote someone - keep their name with the text, so people know who you are quoting!
> 
> Either hit the "Quote" button, or add quote tags like this:
> 
> ...


How's that? You didn't by chance work on the HR20 interface did ya, bud? Those instructions got me close, but not quite. 

BTW, I enjoyed looking at your diagrams and setup of your equipment. My guess is that you must be an engineer.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

RS4 said:


> How's that? You didn't by chance work on the HR20 interface did ya, bud? Those instructions got me close, but not quite.
> 
> BTW, I enjoyed looking at your diagrams and setup of your equipment. My guess is that you must be an engineer.


Actually, all you have to do is hit the big "QUOTE" button in the lower right of the message you want to quote and it's all done for you automatically.


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

Still waiting. Has Malone taken over yet?


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

bonscott87 said:


> Actually, all you have to do is hit the big "QUOTE" button in the lower right of the message you want to quote and it's all done for you automatically.


Thanks for the help Scott. I knew you'd be helpful sometimes 



Cudahy said:


> Still waiting. Has Malone taken over yet?


No. The last thing I read said they thought it would be done by the end of the year.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

I've had my first HR20 for going on 72 hours now. So far I've had no problems at all with it. My wife really likes the on screen caller id and one button record. Neither of us are missing the Tivo yet. I reserve the right to change my mind later.


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