# Existing service plan with new Bolt



## RFHolland (Jan 3, 2016)

I've been a TiVo customer for seven years and renewed my annual service contract last month. Now I wish to buy a Bolt. TiVo tells me that the Bolt has one year of service included and that I will have to trash the service contract I just purchased. I am not willing to pay TiVo again for what I have already paid. The net result is that I will not buy a Bolt for at least a year. And a year from now, who knows? It's a very competitive world out there. Is TiVo management aware of that?


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

So you're complaining that TiVo is holding you to the terms of the service contract that you agreed to? You didn't have to choose an annual service plan. You could have chosen a monthly plan, but didn't. I think the early termination fee is $75. If you want out of the year of service, then that is what you are contractually obligated to pay them. 

I'm guessing that you wouldn't be too happy if TiVo didn't want to hold up their end of the agreement to provide you with the year of service that you paid them for.


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## RFHolland (Jan 3, 2016)

Well Tarheal, I'm not looking or expecting to get out of my service plan (by the way, there is no early termination fee). I've been a loyal TiVo customer for seven years, like their product, and have always had an annual plan. Now however, I would like to purchase their new Bolt product. They have structured this so that the Bolt price includes one year of service that starts upon purchase. There is no acknowledgement of the service contract I already have. That's a major disincentive for me, so much so that I will defer a decision for a year. A year is a long time in a competitive and rapidly changing environment. It presents a risk to TiVo that they will lose a good customer, and I do not believe I am alone.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

The point is that you have an existing commitment and you want to purchase a new product that comes with a free year of service, if it's that big a deal you can just wait until later in the year as your current year is ending and then you're all set, or you could have reviewed your options BEFORE you renewed that contract last month and made a more informed decision since the Bolt has been out since October.

Sorry but you're not going to get a lot of folks supporting you here when the issue isn't a Tivo issue, they're trying to stay afloat and are known for making at times incomprehensible pricing decisions, if you don't like the current one wait 8-10 months and it may changes.


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## RFHolland (Jan 3, 2016)

Diane, your suggestion to wait a year before making a decision is exactly what I stated I would do. However, TiVo could have reaped additional revenue now by selling me a Bolt with a one year contract if they had not simultaneously told me that my existing contract is worthless. From a business standpoint, it makes no sense and this kind of pricing decision calls into question their long term viability.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

RFHolland said:


> Diane, your suggestion to wait a year before making a decision is exactly what I stated I would do. However, TiVo could have reaped additional revenue now by selling me a Bolt with a one year contract if they had not simultaneously told me that my existing contract is worthless. From a business standpoint, it makes no sense and this kind of pricing decision calls into question their long term viability.


Are you sure it makes no sense? My guess is that TiVo makes more money selling you 1 year service on an old TiVo than they do selling you a new Bolt with one year service included.

You really are in no different position than someone with an old TiVo with lifetime service on it. You both have old TiVos with service that you don't benefit from if you by a Bolt and stop using the old TiVo. And just like the person with a old TiVo with lifetime you could also try to sell your old TiVo with the service to recoup some of it's value.


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## RFHolland (Jan 3, 2016)

Atmuscarella, they've already sold me the service contract. They could also sell me a Bolt and another service contract. But I'm not interested if it effectively trashes the first service contract. So I wait and their incremental revenue waits. And a year from now, who knows? There may be something better out there offered by one of TiVo's competitors and I go with that. TiVo forgoes that extra revenue from the new Bolt sale and the subsequent multiple years of revenue. This is the classic razor blade/razor situation. The real money is in selling the razor blade over and over again. That TiVo would set up a situation that endangers the recurring revenue from a long time customer baffles me.


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## joewom (Dec 10, 2013)

RFHolland said:


> Atmuscarella, they've already sold me the service contract. They could also sell me a Bolt and another service contract. But I'm not interested if it effectively trashes the first service contract. So I wait and their incremental revenue waits. And a year from now, who knows? There may be something better out there offered by one of TiVo's competitors and I go with that. TiVo forgoes that extra revenue from the new Bolt sale and the subsequent multiple years of revenue. This is the classic razor blade/razor situation. The real money is in selling the razor blade over and over again. That TiVo would set up a situation that endangers the recurring revenue from a long time customer baffles me.


I'm confused your new bolt would not change your old contract. Your roamio will work just fine for the time you paid. Sorry not seeing your point on this at all. And what competition are you talking about in your OP? I see really none for TiVo. And I don't see them lasting with people always trying to get something for nothing from them.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

If you're not trying to get out of your Roamio contract, then I don't understand the argument at all.

Explain what "trashing" means. Buying a Bolt doesn't change the Roamio contract in any way.

Buy a Bolt if you want one. What makes you think the Roamio contract has anything to do with the Bolt purchase?


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## gigaguy (Aug 30, 2013)

As most Tivo users know, Tivo's business model is the service contract is tied to the box you apply it too. Tivo has never allowed shuffling plans from box to box, except in special situations..


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## RFHolland (Jan 3, 2016)

Well gigaguy, perhaps it's time for TiVo to reevaluate its business model. As most TiVo investors know, the stock price has been flat for five years (except this year when it dropped by a third) and its CEO is stepping down later this month. As I said above, the landscape changes very quickly and companies that are not quick on their feet can disappear in a flash.


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## gigaguy (Aug 30, 2013)

No, I don't disagree, it would be nice, but why be so shocked when they said no. Maybe your intent was lost when in writing.. Tivo would finally close down tho and you'd have a shiny black..or white box..


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## joewom (Dec 10, 2013)

RFHolland said:


> Well gigaguy, perhaps it's time for TiVo to reevaluate its business model. As most TiVo investors know, the stock price has been flat for five years (except this year when it dropped by a third) and its CEO is stepping down later this month. As I said above, the landscape changes very quickly and companies that are not quick on their feet can disappear in a flash.


I'm amazed at the I want everything for free mentality. TiVo at the most has a million subscribers. I'm sorry but you the retail subscriber as well as me is not their money generator. It's the cable cos. Why because people are greedy and think just like you. TiVo is cheaper then cable company boxes yet people still complain.


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## RFHolland (Jan 3, 2016)

The irony here is that I am a big TiVo supporter who wants them to succeed. I've paid them a lot of money over the years and gotten fair value in return. But I do not believe they have reacted (or innovated) quickly enough to the transition from cable to streaming. Bolt is a belated step in the right direction for sure, but there has to be more, as was recently admitted by their CTO (?). In fact, I debated waiting to the next version of Bolt, but then decided to go ahead. One month too late. Their policy convinced me that I should wait after all. So I will wait another year, which is a very long time in this business.


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## gigaguy (Aug 30, 2013)

I misread, I was thinking lifetime service, which is all I've ever had. I never had a year contract. Your argument seems a little more tenable. I wouldn't wait a year tho, a lot changes in the streaming arena. I'm a DVRer, not a streamer, for me, Tivo is still the best in town.
I played with the new Apple TV yesterday, wow; great interface and remote. I'd get that if I was a streamer.


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## joewom (Dec 10, 2013)

RFHolland said:


> The irony here is that I am a big TiVo supporter who wants them to succeed. I've paid them a lot of money over the years and gotten fair value in return. But I do not believe they have reacted (or innovated) quickly enough to the transition from cable to streaming. Bolt is a belated step in the right direction for sure, but there has to be more, as was recently admitted by their CTO (?). In fact, I debated waiting to the next version of Bolt, but then decided to go ahead. One month too late. Their policy convinced me that I should wait after all. So I will wait another year, which is a very long time in this business.


I agree the bolt is not a successor to the roamio but neither does TiVo. So far their is very little that the bolt can do they the roamio can't. Other then speed which I'm not sure that right now matters. My xl4 is slow but it still has 99% of all features the roamio has. So I'm not sure a year is a lifetime in this business. Their are S1s still going strong. The roamio should have at least 3 years easy left. The xl4 is older then that.


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## RFHolland (Jan 3, 2016)

gigaguy, you've put your finger on an important distinction: whether a person is a DVRer or a streamer. At this time I'm a bit of both. In the DVR arena, TiVo is the hands down winner. In streaming, not so much, to the point of my having Apple TV (older version), Amazon Fire, and Google Chrome boxes scattered about. I want TiVo to step in and get it all together, and Bolt is a step in the right direction with promise of more to come. joewom, I agree with your assessment of Bolt having only marginally better capabilities, all the more reason to encourage TiVo to continue making progress in streaming.


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## joewom (Dec 10, 2013)

RFHolland said:


> gigaguy, you've put your finger on an important distinction: whether a person is a DVRer or a streamer. At this time I'm a bit of both. In the DVR arena, TiVo is the hands down winner. In streaming, not so much, to the point of my having Apple TV (older version), Amazon Fire, and Google Chrome boxes scattered about. I want TiVo to step in and get it all together, and Bolt is a step in the right direction with promise of more to come. joewom, I agree with your assessment of Bolt having only marginally better capabilities, all the more reason to encourage TiVo to continue making progress in streaming.


I agree about streaming. But TiVo does not make apps and need the streaming companies to make them. And more will only happen if cable co allow which I think they do on their tivos. The million boxes they have aren't going to be enough as most are still dvrers and not streamers.


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