# Will there ever be a better OTA Roamio?



## dcline414 (May 1, 2014)

Just read that nearly one in five US households no longer subscribes to satellite or cable TV, which as of April totals 7.6 million.

We cut the cord in 2011, and thanks to Tivo we have had very few regrets with the few dozen OTA channels we now receive. However we tend to be early adopters of most technology, the only glaring exception being our three year old Premiere.

The Roamio is faster, has twice the tuners, and seems to be every bit worth the priceEXCEPT for the lack of streaming capability. I cannot imagine paying a penny for a DVR that doesn't have streaming capabilities, and I don't see the advantage to getting a stripped down Roamio over adding a stream to our antique premiere.

Is there any chance that the better Roamios will one day be offered with an adapter for OTA reception? Surely some current Roamio owners will eventually want to cut the cord, but would be forced to downgrade to the basic model.

I can't be the only one who is just waiting to give Tivo money whenever they get their act together and add OTA capabilities to the premium models. So am I crazy to hold my breath waiting for a Roamio refresh?


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

dcline414 said:


> So am I crazy to hold my breath waiting for a Roamio refresh?


Yes, you are crazy. The hardware lineup TiVo currently offers isn't going to change anytime soon. They aren't going to add streaming capabilities to the base Roamio, because that would increase the costs. And they aren't going to add OTA to the Plus/Pro because that would increase the costs. The solution, if you want OTA and streaming is to just buy the stream separately. If you want to wait until the next generation of TiVo hardware to see if they change things around, that will probably be AT LEAST 3 to 4 years away, if ever. I suggest you just buy a base Roamio and a stream.


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## dcline414 (May 1, 2014)

tarheelblue32 said:


> They aren't going to add streaming capabilities to the base Roamio, because that would increase the costs. And they aren't going to add OTA to the Plus/Pro because that would increase the costs.


Increase costs is a relative term. If they make the OTA tuner, and they make the Roamio Plus, the unit cost of producing an OTA version of the plus would actually likely be lower (assuming the 4-tuner module is cheaper than the 6-tuner module).

There might be some cost of producing a fourth variation, but clearly there is a market for this too. Why remove OTA capability from a higher end model anyway? If I upgrade to a leather interior in my car, I don't have to give up my automatic transmission.



tarheelblue32 said:


> I suggest you just buy a base Roamio and a stream.


I don't see that as a very good value. I want three things (in order of importance):

Streaming capabilities
More recording space
Two additional tuners
I can get streaming on my premiere for $120. It isn't really worth $200 MORE for extra tuners, which are nice to have 1-2 times per year, especially since it would only be a nominal increase in recording space. For $200 I could upgrade my 320GB Premiere HDD to something far larger than the 500GB that I'd get with the Roamio.

I see nothing but regret if I drop $320 for a basic Roamio and stream, so I'm not even considering that as an option.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

dcline414 said:


> There might be some cost of producing a fourth variation, but clearly there is a market for this too. Why remove OTA capability from a higher end model anyway?


Because nobody makes the basic chips to handle a 6 tuner OTA setup. TiVo uses standard off-the-shelf chips, and the selection for OTA is much more limited than cable input.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Do you want to buy a used Tivo Stream? I no longer need mine since I have a Roamio Plus.


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## dcline414 (May 1, 2014)

CrispyCritter said:


> Because nobody makes the basic chips to handle a 6 tuner OTA setup. TiVo uses standard off-the-shelf chips, and the selection for OTA is much more limited than cable input.


I'm not asking for 6 tuners, just the basic 4 tuner with all the bells and whistles.

And anyone who bought a more expensive model and then at some point decides to cancel cable is going to be sad to find their Tivo is worthless. If nothing else, couldn't they at least offer an external OTA adapter?


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

dcline414 said:


> I'm not asking for 6 tuners, just the basic 4 tuner with all the bells and whistles.
> 
> And anyone who bought a more expensive model and then at some point decides to cancel cable is going to be sad to find their Tivo is worthless. If nothing else, couldn't they at least offer an external OTA adapter?


It's not their primary market, they don't really care about OTA as much as digital cable where they can show the MSOs what their hardware can do should they offer it in house.
You're fighting a losing battle, the right answer is base Roamio and an external stream if you're OTA only since the Premiere is only 2 tuners for OTA.

What you want and the direction that Tivo is heading are on different paths, the base Roamio is a substantial improvement over your Premiere including the ability to drop in a 3TB drive. When you factor in that the Stream you buy can be used with BOTH the Roamio and Premiere, that's even more added value.

There are only 3 things missing from the base vs the Pro/Plus, the 2 extra tuners that you won't get, the built-in Stream which you can buy, and the RF remote that while nice is really NBD in my book, I don't consider them "all the bells and whistles"


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## dcline414 (May 1, 2014)

mattack said:


> Do you want to buy a used Tivo Stream? I no longer need mine since I have a Roamio Plus.


I'm still trying to decide if I really want to double-down on the Premiere... the new update definitely helps, but I still feel like I'm duct taping a model T to drag it into the 21st century.

I am seriously considering signing up for cable again, but if I do I see no reason to keep the Tivo over the fancier DVRs they're including for free now.

IMHO Tivo's best value proposition is to a cable cutter (it's the only reason we ever became a customer), and that segment tend to be younger and more high tech consumers who don't want a crippled entry-level Roamio. So rather than compete for this large and rapidly growing segment, Tivo is fighting a losing battle against cable companies who are offering comparable hardware for much less.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

dcline414 said:


> And anyone who bought a more expensive model and then at some point decides to cancel cable is going to be sad to find their Tivo is worthless.


Far from worthless, a Roamio Plus/Pro w/lifetime can be sold and the money used to buy the OTA Roamio model if needed.



dcline414 said:


> If nothing else, couldn't they at least offer an external OTA adapter?


That would certainly be a nice optional accessory to have. I don't know how technically difficult it would be for TiVo to make it happen.


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## eboydog (Mar 24, 2006)

Given the fact that the Premiere (2 tuner) does both cable and OTA, I fail to understand why the Roamio Plus/Pro can't handle both. I'm more than understanding technical limitations but it seems to me TiVo made that choice due to software limitations rather for technical reasons. Granted I can't see how having 6 tuners for ota being useful but having that option seems better from a marketing approach rather than not offering it at all.

Again, I see this more another indication that TiVo is headed out of the retail market rather that entering further into it. Their growing market is MSO cable companies, not their average consumer directly, why provide something that a minority consumer would want?

Not saying I like this new TiVo company, but they fought the cable companies and found it was easier to join them rather than to offer consumers a real choice. What we see now is just the transition and TiVo being a consumer orientated company will soon be a thing of the past, their support for cord cutters is poor at the very least.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

dcline414 said:


> I'm still trying to decide if I really want to double-down on the Premiere... the new update definitely helps, but I still feel like I'm duct taping a model T to drag it into the 21st century.
> 
> I am seriously considering signing up for cable again, but if I do I see no reason to keep the Tivo over the fancier DVRs they're including for free now.
> 
> IMHO Tivo's best value proposition is to a cable cutter (it's the only reason we ever became a customer), and that segment tend to be younger and more high tech consumers who don't want a crippled entry-level Roamio. So rather than compete for this large and rapidly growing segment, Tivo is fighting a losing battle against cable companies who are offering comparable hardware for much less.


 Don't be misled in thinking that cord cutters automatically go the OTA route. Quite a few of the younger ones want to go total streaming. While cord cutting is going up, OTA percentage is actually dropping. There are thousands of people who can not get OTA reception.
At this point there is not a lot of money to be made on OTA. Get your basic Romaio's while you can, this is as good as OTA gets.


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## pautler (Oct 10, 2013)

dianebrat said:


> There are only 3 things missing from the base vs the Pro/Plus, the 2 extra tuners that you won't get, the built-in Stream which you can buy, and the RF remote that while nice is really NBD in my book, I don't consider them "all the bells and whistles"


The base Roamio does have an RF remote, but only the Pro and Plus have the "remote finder" feature.

For what it's worth, I'm a cord-cutter with a Roamio Base and two Roamio Minis. I use OTA for the majority of my programming, along with with Netflix and Amazon Prime streaming (which I have to use via my smart TV because Roamio still doesn't support it. Argh!) I'm very happy with the system, except for the lack of support for Amazon Prime. I have no real desire or need for outbound streaming from my DVR, so I have not purchased an external TiVo stream, and appreciate the fact that the Base was less expensive due it not being built-in. But if the Stream was built-in, and the cost was a bit higher, I still would have bought it and would play around with it.  Perhaps someday I'll pick one up...perhaps used/cheap.

-Joe


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Given the capabilities of the stream or the built in streaming of the plus, you are better off adding a slingbox to your basic Roamio anyway. Heck that way it even supports Android which Tivo may never do at this point.


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## cmshep222 (Feb 18, 2005)

jcthorne said:


> Given the capabilities of the stream or the built in streaming of the plus, you are better off adding a slingbox to your basic Roamio anyway. Heck that way it even supports Android which Tivo may never do at this point.


Boom, that train is never late! The ever persistent "Android" chime-in on all threads.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

There may never be a better OTA Roamio, I sure can't see any reason for TiVo to offer one. I also don't think there will ever be a better DVR than TiVo for OTA, period, nothing I have looked at comes close in my opinion and I have been OTA and internet streaming only since 2009. I have looked at the options a few times since then.

I know complaining about what TiVo doesn't do is very common here and who knows, maybe if more complain, TiVo will respond and offer the requested product but I believe the market is so tiny that would make no sense at all. I am not sure the market is large enough to justify a sophisticated OTA DVR at all. If it was a profitable product, I believe we would see some competition.


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## DancyMunchkin (Jul 7, 2014)

pautler said:


> For what it's worth, I'm a cord-cutter with a Roamio Base and two Roamio Minis. I use OTA for the majority of my programming, along with with Netflix and Amazon Prime streaming (which I have to use via my smart TV because Roamio still doesn't support it. Argh!) I'm very happy with the system, except for the lack of support for Amazon Prime.


Could you comment further on Amazon Prime? I've purchased TV shows (current 24) via Amazon Prime and they've automatically appeared in My Shows list.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

eboydog said:


> Given the fact that the Premiere (2 tuner) does both cable and OTA, I fail to understand why the Roamio Plus/Pro can't handle both.


Essentially a two tuner premiere has four tuners, two for each function. The cable only premiers just made them all for cable cos.

So, for the roamio to have both concurrently, it would need to manage 12 tuners.

It is all about cost.


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## dcline414 (May 1, 2014)

Chris Gerhard said:


> I know complaining about what TiVo doesn't do is very common here and who knows, maybe if more complain, TiVo will respond and offer the requested product but I believe the market is so tiny that would make no sense at all.


This wasn't meant to be a complaint threadsorry if my question comes across as such.

You make a good point about there being little competition in the OTA space, but it seems like there is a void in the market (namely that streaming players don't unify live OTA sports, news, etc) and Tivo could clench the whole segment with an OTA DVR stream.

Honestly I don't see the point of paying for Tivo on top of paid TV service. It is not a lack of content, but rather poor hardware that is tempting me to go back to paying for TV. And if I go back to DirecTV, I can get a Genie 5-tuner 1TB DVR and up to 4 genie minis FOR FREE. The minis cost $6 per month each.

Why would anyone paying for TV ever buy a Tivo and pay additional fees rather than get a comparable DVR for free? That's why I would expect OTA to be a stronger market opportunity for Tivo, not an afterthought banished to the cheapest of hardware offerings.


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## dcline414 (May 1, 2014)

jrtroo said:


> Essentially a two tuner premiere has four tuners, two for each function. The cable only premiers just made them all for cable cos.
> 
> So, for the roamio to have both concurrently, it would need to manage 12 tuners.


So the Roamio basic actually has 8 tuners (4 OTA and 4 cable)? Even if so, I can't imagine that having more than 4 would often be needed for most consumers. I've never wanted to record/watch more than 3 programs simultaneously.

I think the basic Roamio's tuner set, but with a larger drive and streaming could be a viable product offering. Maybe even replacing the current plus model. That would push those who "need" 6 tuners to the top model.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

No, the basic is either/or. Not both concurrently.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

dianebrat said:


> It's not their primary market, they don't really care about OTA as much as digital cable where they can show the MSOs what their hardware can do should they offer it in house.
> You're fighting a losing battle, the right answer is base Roamio and an external stream if you're OTA only since the Premiere is only 2 tuners for OTA.
> 
> What you want and the direction that Tivo is heading are on different paths, the base Roamio is a substantial improvement over your Premiere including the ability to drop in a 3TB drive. When you factor in that the Stream you buy can be used with BOTH the Roamio and Premiere, that's even more added value.
> ...


And the GigE port as well as MoCA capability.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

DancyMunchkin said:


> Could you comment further on Amazon Prime? I've purchased TV shows (current 24) via Amazon Prime and they've automatically appeared in My Shows list.


No, you've purchased Amazon Download shows. Amazon Prime is a pure streaming feature like Netflix - the shows are never stored on your TiVo. Amazon Prime offers a different selection of shows than Amazon Download, and most(?) are streamed for free if you have Amazon Prime.


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## dcline414 (May 1, 2014)

jrtroo said:


> No, the basic is either/or. Not both concurrently.


So why is it not possible to take the basic platform and add two dedicated cable tuners, allowing a choice between 4 OTA tuners or 6 cable tuners? I just don't understand the removal of OTA tuners from the more expensive models. It almost seems like Tivo is in bed with the cable companies, limiting larger drives, streaming, etc to cable subscribers.

Perhaps they get a kickback from cable companies that subsidizes the additional cost-but if so it seems like they could follow the cellular hardware model and sell unsubsidized models direct to the public.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

I wish there was a Roamio Basic that was in a normal sized metal box not some crazy shaped piece of plastic. Not that there's a "normal size" for such things these days, of course. 

A shame we never really got some sort of modular standard for such equipment -- like rack mounting but with a horizontal component width multiple, too, not just the vertical units.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

dcline414 said:


> If nothing else, couldn't they at least offer an external OTA adapter?





tarheelblue32 said:


> That would certainly be a nice optional accessory to have. I don't know how technically difficult it would be for TiVo to make it happen.


It would be pretty awesome if the Roamios could support network ATSC tuners like the Silicon Dust HDHomerun.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

HarperVision said:


> It would be pretty awesome if the Roamios could support network ATSC tuners like the Silicon Dust HDHomerun.


I'm sure it's on the list, right after DLNA support


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

dcline414 said:


> So why is it not possible to take the basic platform and add two dedicated cable tuners, allowing a choice between 4 OTA tuners or 6 cable tuners? I just don't understand the removal of OTA tuners from the more expensive models. It almost seems like Tivo is in bed with the cable companies, limiting larger drives, streaming, etc to cable subscribers


They're not "in bed with the MSOs" they have smartly realized that the MSOs are the key to their future and they're tailoring their offerings to show off to the MSOs and show them all the good things they can do for them. We're not their primary market anymore, we're their test market, and the future of that market is Cable/Fiber not OTA.

Also what's the "limiting larger drives" comment? you can drop a 3TB drive in any Roamio, what CableCO DVR lets you do that?


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## dcline414 (May 1, 2014)

dianebrat said:


> Also what's the "limiting larger drives" comment? you can drop a 3TB drive in any Roamio, what CableCO DVR lets you do that?


Okay, charging you for the included 500GB drive that you have to pay an additional $100 to replace. So if I decide I want the latest and greatest equipment I have two choices:

*OTA w/ Tivo* _(35 channels, 15 HD)_
Pay $630 for a Roamio basic with an upgraded 1TB drive, a stream, and two minis, plus $27 per month. No programming fees.
*TOTAL COST: $1,280* (2 years) 
$53.25/mo

*DirecTV* _(130 channels, 45 HD)_
Get a 5-tuner 1TB Genie and two minis for free, and only pay $100 for a GenieGo, plus $27 per month in equipment fees. Programming costs $25 per month for the first year and $50 per month for the second year, but I would also get a $200 one-time rebate.
*TOTAL COST = $1,450* (2 years)
$60.40/mo

So a difference of $7.15 per month for 3x the channels and better equipment, plus lower up-front equipment cost with DirecTV. I just don't see what incentive there is for paying another dime to Tivo.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

dcline414 said:


> Okay, charging you for the included 500GB drive that you have to pay an additional $100 to replace. So if I decide I want the latest and greatest equipment I have two choices:
> 
> *OTA w/ Tivo* _(35 channels, 15 HD)_
> Pay $630 for a Roamio basic with an upgraded 1TB drive, a stream, and two minis, plus $27 per month. No programming fees.
> ...


 You are missing tons in your analysis. A few items include residual value on the Tivo, use of lifetime, and not being beholden to satellite, to name a few.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

One example...

*OTA w/ Tivo* _(35 channels, 15 HD)_
Pay $630 for a Roamio basic with an upgraded 1TB drive, a stream, and two minis, plus $499.99 + 2x$149.99 for lifetime. No programming fees.
*TOTAL COST: $1,429.27*
$59.59/mo (amortized over 2 years)
$0.00/mo (3rd and later years)
Residual resale value after 2 years: $500++ (likely/possibly higher as well, especially earlier than 2 years)
+ usable if you ever add cable service, with no additional purchased hardware

*DirecTV* _(130 channels, 45 HD)_
Get a 5-tuner 1TB Genie and two minis for free, and only pay $100 for a GenieGo, plus $27 per month in equipment fees. Programming costs $25 per month for the first year and $50 per month for the second year, but I would also get a $200 one-time rebate.
*TOTAL COST = $1,450* (2 years)
$60.40/mo
$50.00/mo (3rd and later years, plus price increases)
Residual resale value from day 1: $0.00 (leased)



dcline414 said:


> Okay, charging you for the included 500GB drive that you have to pay an additional $100 to replace. So if I decide I want the latest and greatest equipment I have two choices:
> 
> *OTA w/ Tivo* _(35 channels, 15 HD)_
> Pay $630 for a Roamio basic with an upgraded 1TB drive, a stream, and two minis, plus $27 per month. No programming fees.
> ...


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

um...just get the streaming adapter for the Roamio Basic and you're good to go. 

Tivo is never going to be Burger King. 

Mass market-wise I don't think anyone needs 6 tuners on OTA. Most can't get that many OTA channels.

Also maybe the fact you can get alot of OTA shows via streaming without getting a Tivo is also a factor in not releasing a real OTA Roamio Tivo instead of a re-brand of the Premiere.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

dcline414 said:


> I am seriously considering signing up for cable again, but if I do I see no reason to keep the Tivo over the fancier DVRs they're including for free now.


Well, technically, even if you're getting the DVR in the cost of your package, you actually are PAYING, since you should be getting a _discount_ for customer owned equipment, e.g. with a Tivo.

Also.. (1) better UI, (2) ability to download non copy protected shows to a computer, (3) ability to stream/download shows to an iPhone/iPad... none of which you get on a cable DVR.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

dcline414 said:


> It almost seems like Tivo is in bed with the cable companies, limiting larger drives, streaming, etc to cable subscribers.





dianebrat said:


> Also what's the "limiting larger drives" comment? you can drop a 3TB drive in any Roamio, what CableCO DVR lets you do that?





dcline414 said:


> Okay, charging you for the included 500GB drive that you have to pay an additional $100 to replace.


But that's the OPPOSITE of what you're claiming, Tivo doesn't "limit" you, they just don't make a unit with the options you want, that's abundantly clear, but allowing you to replace the reasonable for some folks 500GB drive with a 1, 2, or 3TB drive, whichever should you chose, that's never a minus, that's a total plus for Tivo (yes, I'm harping on this)

Tivo doesn't make the model you want and it's not on their roadmap for all the reasons folks have pointed out, IMO you'll never be happy with Tivo so I say find a provider that better meets your needs.

Any time there's an attempt to cost justify Tivo it's just silly, Tivo is never the most cost effective solution, but it's frequently the best option for folks who are appreciative of the Tivo package/experience.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

dswallow said:


> I wish there was a Roamio Basic that was in a normal sized metal box not some crazy shaped piece of plastic. Not that there's a "normal size" for such things these days, of course.
> 
> A shame we never really got some sort of modular standard for such equipment -- like rack mounting but with a horizontal component width multiple, too, not just the vertical units.


 Seems like the aftermarket could come up with a metal case to solve that for the base roamio, I'm not wild about that plastic case either.


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## dcline414 (May 1, 2014)

dianebrat said:


> Any time there's an attempt to cost justify Tivo it's just silly, Tivo is never the most cost effective solution, but it's frequently the best option for folks who are appreciative of the Tivo package/experience.


I guess I didn't see Tivo that way at all. I have always loved the cable/satellite hardware, and never understood why anyone would pay more for a Tivo. But when we cut the cord, I realized I would need to find my own hardware, which is how I first experienced Tivo.

I still don't have a foggy clue why anyone would pay out of pocket for equipment rather than take what their provider offers. If anything happens to their equipment then they replace it, and you can swap out for new equipment when anything better comes along.

I see absolutely no value proposition in what everyone seems to consider Tivo's primary market, so perhaps I am just confused about their model and the market as a whole.

Turns out that there are dozens of internet-connected ATSC tuners coming out that allow any drive to be connected for storage and can stream content remotelyall for much less than a Tivo costs, and at a lower monthly cost.

I guess I'll just head back over to the Premiere forum for the next month and then part ways with Tivo when my contract ends.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

dcline414 said:


> I still don't have a foggy clue why anyone would pay out of pocket for equipment rather than take what their provider offers. If anything happens to their equipment then they replace it, and you can swap out for new equipment when anything better comes along.
> 
> I see absolutely no value proposition in what everyone seems to consider Tivo's primary market, so perhaps I am just confused about their model and the market as a whole.


?? It's simple math. Rent dvr from your provider for $20/month in perpetuity or pay one up front cost for a Tivo.

Leasing vs owning. Owning always comes out ahead over the long run.


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## dcline414 (May 1, 2014)

trip1eX said:


> ?? It's simple math. Rent dvr from your provider for $20/month in perpetuity or pay one up front cost for a Tivo.
> 
> Leasing vs owning. Owning always comes out ahead over the long run.


Pay $200 plus $15 per month (or a fortune up front) for Tivo or get the DVR with all the bells and whistles the cable guy brings for free. And in a year swap it for the awesome new one instead of lamenting the sluggishness and decreasing reliability of something you foolishly bought instead of leasing.

Maybe I'm the one guy who likes the cable company, but they always do a great job and make sure you have the best equipment for your needs. I loved Comcast, and have always had good experiences with Charter as well.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

dcline414 said:


> Pay $200 plus $15 per month (or a fortune up front) for Tivo or get the DVR with all the bells and whistles the cable guy brings for free. And in a year swap it for the awesome new one instead of lamenting the sluggishness and decreasing reliability of something you foolishly bought instead of leasing.
> 
> Maybe I'm the one guy who likes the cable company, but they always do a great job and make sure you have the best equipment for your needs. I loved Comcast, and have always had good experiences with Charter as well.


Maybe Comcast and Charter just have really awesome equipment, but Time Warner Cable's cable boxes and DVRs were pieces of crapola. I replaced TWC's equipment about 8 months ago with a Roamio Plus w/lifetime and 2 Minis w/lifetime for around $1200 and it saves me $50/month in equipment rental fees. So they will pay for themselves over the course of 24 months. And at the end of those 24 months the odds are I will still have a Plus and 2 Minis still in good working order and with a significant resale value, rather than looking at paying $50/month in perpetuity to a company I despise (TWC) to rent their crappy DVR and cable boxes that I absolutely hated.

I'm not trying to say that your position is wrong, but I guess it's all just a matter of perspective.


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## DancyMunchkin (Jul 7, 2014)

dcline414 said:


> Pay $200 plus $15 per month (or a fortune up front) for Tivo or get the DVR with all the bells and whistles the cable guy brings for free. And in a year swap it for the awesome new one instead of lamenting the sluggishness and decreasing reliability of something you foolishly bought instead of leasing.
> 
> Maybe I'm the one guy who likes the cable company, but they always do a great job and make sure you have the best equipment for your needs. I loved Comcast, and have always had good experiences with Charter as well.


In post #35 you said ""I guess I'll just head back over to the Premiere forum for the next month and then part ways with Tivo when my contract ends." yet here you are again.

Change your mind?


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## DeltaOne (Sep 29, 2013)

dcline414 said:


> Maybe I'm the one guy who likes the cable company, but they always do a great job and make sure you have the best equipment for your needs. I loved Comcast, and have always had good experiences with Charter as well.


I wouldn't say I love Comcast, but the offerings and reliability of the system I'm on is pretty good. We're on a former Adelphia system and its reliability is excellent.

But there's no way Comcast makes sure you have the best equipment. I began looking for alternative hardware because I was sick and tired of a two tuner DVR with limited storage. I first looked at Comcast's X1 DVR, but a few weeks of reading horror stories on the Xfinity user forums scared the hell out of me. Then I stumbled on to TiVo and don't regret my decision to switch one bit.

Well, one regret might be I didn't make the switch to TiVo sooner, but our timing was actually pretty good -- making the move last fall just a few months after the new Roamio line had been introduced.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

dianebrat said:


> But that's the OPPOSITE of what you're claiming, Tivo doesn't "limit" you, they just don't make a unit with the options you want, that's abundantly clear, but allowing you to replace the reasonable for some folks 500GB drive with a 1, 2, or 3TB drive, whichever should you chose, that's never a minus, that's a total plus for Tivo (yes, I'm harping on this)
> 
> Tivo doesn't make the model you want and it's not on their roadmap for all the reasons folks have pointed out, IMO you'll never be happy with Tivo so I say find a provider that better meets your needs.
> 
> Any time there's an attempt to cost justify Tivo it's just silly, Tivo is never the most cost effective solution, but it's frequently the best option for folks who are appreciative of the Tivo package/experience.


But TiVo has been the most cost effective solution when I compare prices to Comcast and FiOS in my area. If I had used Comcast or FIOS DVRs over the last seven years, my costs would have been much higher, than what it cost me with my TiVos during that time. And I still get the benefits of the TiVo. Like being able to offload the shows to a PC on my network.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

dcline414 said:


> I guess I didn't see Tivo that way at all. I have always loved the cable/satellite hardware, and never understood why anyone would pay more for a Tivo. But when we cut the cord, I realized I would need to find my own hardware, which is how I first experienced Tivo.
> 
> I still don't have a foggy clue why anyone would pay out of pocket for equipment rather than take what their provider offers. If anything happens to their equipment then they replace it, and you can swap out for new equipment when anything better comes along.
> 
> ...


I'm guessing that you are someone who purchases insurance on your hardware (best buy/frys/ect)? Or, perhaps the perfect owner for a car salesman to switch from sticker price to monthly cost? Or, maybe you are in the leasing game?

Tivos are relatively simple to fix, especially the roamio. You are free to spend your money how you wish, but you are spending more than you need to.


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## gonefishin (Dec 29, 2007)

I just received my Tivo Romio...and really, as an OTA DVR...I couldn't be happier!

Let me explain why. We cut the cord back in 2008. Tivo was a large part why this was possible because they offered a dual tuner, HD, guided DVR for OTA. I saved a ton of money over the years. Even after my initial harddrive failed and had to replace it...I was still easily money ahead.

Then we moved about 65 miles from our Chicago towers. My Pioneer Kuro tuners received most of the channels without breaking up. Some channels, like 2 and 11 were problems. 11 would come in and out...2 was totally absent. Then hooking up my Tivo HD, we received NO channels at all!

Then my dad brought over his Romio, it received every major network and channel 2 with the existing antenna. I received my Tivo Romio the other day and also receive all the major networks quite solid. 2 will break up at times...but actually not that often. None of the channels have a ton of signal strength, but they're all fairly solid in viewing. 

I've got my Chromecast for streaming Netflix, etc. The picture quality, of Netflix, on the Chromecast is better than on either the Tivo HD or Romio...although the Romio streams Netflix much better than the HD. But looking at the core of what an OTA DVR should do...OTA is, and should be, at the forefront. Really, anything else is just lipstick on a pig...cause if you have crap OTA tuners...you're box is useless for it's main purpose.

Tivo Romio...so far...couldn't be happier

Dan


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## Silverman (Jan 18, 2013)

So this guy thinks the cable folks will keep him in the latest equipment, huh? I just helped a renter pick up the Comcast DVR to add to the renters system. This is right now, July, 2014. The Motorola box says it can store UP TO 7 hours of HD programming!! I thought it must be a mis-print. The first 1999 Tivos were even 16 hours of the TV we had then........so don't anyone think cable co stuff is up to date, and this is no little company either, it's Xfinity Nashville.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

dcline414 said:


> Pay $200 plus $15 per month (or a fortune up front) for Tivo or get the DVR with all the bells and whistles the cable guy brings for free. And in a year swap it for the awesome new one instead of lamenting the sluggishness and decreasing reliability of something you foolishly bought instead of leasing.
> 
> Maybe I'm the one guy who likes the cable company, but they always do a great job and make sure you have the best equipment for your needs. I loved Comcast, and have always had good experiences with Charter as well.


lol. You can't get around the simple math with hyperbole. The cost of the lease is always based on making a profit off the cost of ownership.

Your cable DVR isn't free. You're paying $20/month for it.

Your cable company isn't switching you into a new DVR every year. DVRs don't evolve that fast for one thing. And your cable company is going to resist equipment changes for another.

Your DVR doesn't get sluggish over time. Nothing changes.

It also doesn't become less reliable either. (yes we can split hairs here.)

It isn't about liking or not liking the cable company in terms of whether it pays to own your own dvr. The math is the same.


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## Silverman (Jan 18, 2013)

Yeah, where does he get free DVR from? Some really high packages might include a DVR, but you sure are paying for it. Believe it or not Comcast charges 17 a month for the 7 hour HD DVR wonder I mentioned above, with it 5 a month for first year. Makes Tivo look so much better, like wow....


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## PedjaR (Jan 4, 2010)

trip1eX said:


> ...
> Your cable company isn't switching you into a new DVR every year. DVRs don't evolve that fast for one thing. And your cable company is going to resist equipment changes for another.
> ...


Even if it does, at that point you lose the recordings you have not watched yet. This would likely be a noticeable concern for people having 3TB hard drives; of course, if your DVR stores all of 7 hrs ...


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

mattack said:


> Do you want to buy a used Tivo Stream? I no longer need mine since I have a Roamio Plus.


If your inbox wasn't full, you'd have a PM from me  :up:


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## cosmicvoid (Oct 13, 2013)

HarperVision said:


> It would be pretty awesome if the Roamios could support network ATSC tuners like the Silicon Dust HDHomerun.


Not really. I have a WMC HTPC with 2 SiliconDust boxes (4 tuners total), and in my locale the reception on some channels is marginal (multipath). Switching to the Roamio basic cured that completely. Tivo's tuners are far superior to SiliconDust for sensitivity and multipath problems.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

cosmicvoid said:


> Not really. I have a WMC HTPC with 2 SiliconDust boxes (4 tuners total), and in my locale the reception on some channels is marginal (multipath). Switching to the Roamio basic cured that completely. Tivo's tuners are far superior to SiliconDust for sensitivity and multipath problems.


Yeah but it would be nice to have for the plus and pro models since they lack ATSC tuners all together.

Are you talking about the newer Plus version of the SD HDHomerun or the old one?


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## tallmomof2 (May 3, 2014)

I switched recently to Tivo to actually save money. If I wanted to switch from the ancient Motorola STBs to the newer Cisco ones it would've meant $60 a month. The old Motorola boxes were $45 a month. My cable card costs me $6 to rent. Not including resale value of my Roamio Pro and 2 minis all with lifetime, I will break even in less than two years. 

The family acceptance factor with Tivo is sky high. They prefer it many times over to the Fios UI. What's really amazing is the picture quality with the Roamio. I didn't realize how old and decrepit the Motorola boxes had become. 

Unless I didn't have any other choice I would never go back to satellite. Too many weather outages, picture quality not as good as cable, and the CS. I might be able to live with OTA and streaming but there are no good (and legal) options for sports. Too many serious sports fans in the house not to have cable.

Goos luck with whatever you decide but in my experience the Roamio is far ahead of what any cable company or satellite provider can provide.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

trip1eX said:


> Mass market-wise I don't think anyone needs 6 tuners on OTA. Most can't get that many OTA channels.


Which of these 6 are "most" people missing?:

ABC
CBS
CW
FOX
NBC
PBS


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

In order to enable even a base Roamio to handle OTA and cable simultaneously, it would need an additional input.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> In order to enable even a base Roamio to handle OTA and cable simultaneously, it would need an additional input.


It has USB ports. That's how DirecTV adds OTA to their satellite-only DVRS. The ATSC tuner box (the AM21, which has 2 ATSC tuners) plugs into one of the USB ports, and has its own coaxial port and power supply.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

lpwcomp said:


> Which of these 6 are "most" people missing?:
> 
> ABC
> CBS
> ...


Viewing habits differ. I can receive all of those plus an extra PBS system, but I don't usually record or even watch anything from some of them. Most of my recording is done from PBS, NBC and CBS, so if single-tuner overlap still worked my 4-tuner Roamio wouldn't even have to retune most of the time. Of course most people watch a lot more commercial entertainment than I do.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

L David Matheny said:


> Viewing habits differ. I can receive all of those plus an extra PBS system, but I don't usually record or even watch anything from some of them. Most of my recording is done from PBS, NBC and CBS, so if single-tuner overlap still worked my 4-tuner Roamio wouldn't even have to retune most of the time. Of course most people watch a lot more commercial entertainment than I do.


The other issue is that a lot of folks are talking about a family solution, and not just a single person solution. You get 4 folks with their own idea of shows to watch, and you get both conflicts in recordings and conflicts for watching live-tv.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

L David Matheny said:


> Viewing habits differ. I can receive all of those plus an extra PBS system, but I don't usually record or even watch anything from some of them. Most of my recording is done from PBS, NBC and CBS, so if single-tuner overlap still worked my 4-tuner Roamio wouldn't even have to retune most of the time. Of course most people watch a lot more commercial entertainment than I do.


I was addressing the claim that "most people" can't even *receive* that many channels.

I assume we are limiting this to the U.S. since doing otherwise in this context would be ridiculous. 83% of the U.S. population live in urban areas so, unless there are actual data to support it, I would say that the claim is absurd.

Plus it doesn't take 4 simultaneous shows to use up 4-tuners if you have your recordings padded.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Diana Collins said:


> It has USB ports. That's how DirecTV adds OTA to their satellite-only DVRS. The ATSC tuner box (the AM21, which has 2 ATSC tuners) plugs into one of the USB ports, and has its own coaxial port and power supply.


The possibility of an add-on tuner is a different issue and is already being discussed in another thread.

The point I was trying to make is that it requires more than just adding an internal OTA tuner to the Plus & Pro and that the lack of a second input on the base model is one reason why the Roamio doesn't support simultaneous OTA and cable.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

lpwcomp said:


> Which of these 6 are "most" people missing?:
> 
> ABC
> CBS
> ...


TAke your pick. I bet most can't get all those with one antenna position.

Anyway you are missing the point. Where is the great need in the market for a 6 tuner OTA dvr with so few OTA channels? I'm not seeing it.


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## abovethesink (Aug 26, 2013)

I can only get PBS, but I am rural. I can't even get the CW as part of a cable package still.


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## dcline414 (May 1, 2014)

trip1eX said:


> Take your pick. I bet most can't get all those with one antenna position.


Quite possibly true if located far enough out that an omnidirectional antenna can't get them all.

In Atlanta the NBC affiliate is VHF while all others are UHF. I discovered that a BIG (8' long, 6' wide, 4' tall) VHF/UHF antenna couldn't be positioned in such a way that it picked up everything... at least not on the Tivo (the built-in TV tuners work better). We ended up with a dedicated VHF antenna, the combination VHF/UHF antenna, a pretty expensive preamp that can combine the signals, and a distribution amp to run to the TVs directly as well as the Tivo.



trip1eX said:


> Where is the great need in the market for a 6 tuner OTA dvr with so few OTA channels? I'm not seeing it.


I don't think anyone would ever need 6 OTA tuners. However the BASE Roamio has the ability to be either a 4-tuner OTA or 4-tuner cable DVR, and thus is much more versatile, i.e. for lifetime service.

If all else were equal (streaming, HDD, inputs/outputs, etc) I would DEFINITELY be more likely to buy lifetime service on a device that I could use whether I had cable or not, even if that meant giving up two [cable] tuners.

But the responses in this thread have made it very apparent that most here view cable, OTA, and Tivo's value much differently than I do.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

dcline414 said:


> I don't think anyone would ever need 6 OTA tuners. However the BASE Roamio has the ability to be either a 4-tuner OTA or 4-tuner cable DVR, and thus is much more versatile, i.e. for lifetime service.


There was a time 10 or 11 years ago wherein there were 5 shows on different _*broadcast*_ networks at the same time that either I or my SO wanted to see. I had to use all 3 TiVos I owned at the time and 2 VCRs.

Add padding, local sub-channels, multiple users (with wildly differing tastes) and minis into the mix and you can easily get to a situation where 4 OTA tuners is not enough.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

lpwcomp said:


> There was a time 10 or 11 years ago wherein there were 5 shows on different _*broadcast*_ networks at the same time that either I or my SO wanted to see. I had to use all 3 TiVos I owned at the time and 2 VCRs.
> 
> Add padding, local sub-channels, multiple users (with wildly differing tastes) and minis into the mix and you can easily get to a situation where 4 OTA tuners is not enough.


But if TiVo ever manages to finish implementing single-tuner overlap by moving the required copying to a background task where it won't cause glitches (or if the new Haxe-based code is somehow efficient enough to avoid the glitches), that great high-end feature will help a lot.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

L David Matheny said:


> But if TiVo ever manages to finish implementing single-tuner overlap by moving the required copying to a background task where it won't cause glitches (or if the new Haxe-based code is somehow efficient enough to avoid the glitches), that great high-end feature will help a lot.


IMNSHO, the scheduler problems in the single-tuner overlap code are a far more serious issue.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

You don't need to maintain copies of the same data that may be needed for two overlapped recordings of video from a single tuner -- you just need a mechanism like reference counting or hard linking blocks of data at some level sufficiently granular to provide ways two recordings can own the same blocks of data for the overlapped portion of the recording.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

dswallow said:


> You don't need to maintain copies of the same data that may be needed for two overlapped recordings of video from a single tuner -- you just need a mechanism like reference counting or hard linking blocks of data at some level sufficiently granular to provide ways two recordings can own the same blocks of data for the overlapped portion of the recording.


That certainly would be my preferred method for implementing this feature. Unfortunately, it probably requires changes to the FS and definitely more code changes than the way they did it.

Plus, as I indicated before, the scheduler problems were far more serious than the "glitch" and they would be there no matter what method was used for the actual recording.


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## gfgray (Mar 14, 2004)

I've used all 4 tuners when scheduling things. Especially when there is a special event going on. Tivo can see how often we are hitting all four tuners with their data mining. They can use that to decide if they need to offer a 6 tuner model. With minis taking up tuners, i can see an advantage to 6 tuners for OTA. 6 tuners would be the main reason for them to do it because you can get all the other features by getting add-on accessories.

But mainly I want MoCa, streaming, and a normal sized box with fan airflow that actually makes sense. People don't have unlimited room to stick wierd size boxes in their cabinet. We need to be able to stack the PS3 on top of the Tivo for the love of all that is holy!

But I would bet they make a 6 tuner OTA. Maybe that is why they are running a promotion right now to clear out the 6 tuner cable-only models.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

lpwcomp said:


> IMNSHO, the scheduler problems in the single-tuner overlap code are a far more serious issue.


Yes. Even though I did not once suffer the scheduler problems, once I was fully informed about how bad it was for those who did suffer it, I quit ranting over the function's removal.

As with a great many things, I advocated for the ability to turn the function on and off. I can never quite figure out TiVo's thinking on things. Just when I think they are going to change things and force us to take everything they change, they surprise me with letting me turn off the extra column in the My Shows list, as opposed to it being "the new and only view".

We can toggle the free space indicator, but can't choose to have the "HD Recordings" folder as an option. As some have pointed out, having a "SD Recordings" folder would be of more use to them.

I can only hope that the debut of the extra column is "just the beginning", which leaves some hope of each user being able to have their TiVo "their way". Letting us add and name folders, and deciding what goes into them, would be a dream come true (especially if they quit wasting so much horizontal real-estate on the sides, resulting in less truncation).


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

lpwcomp said:


> IMNSHO, the scheduler problems in the single-tuner overlap code are a far more serious issue.





nooneuknow said:


> Yes. Even though I did not once suffer the scheduler problems, once I was fully informed about how bad it was for those who did suffer it, I quit ranting over the function's removal.
> 
> As with a great many things, I advocated for the ability to turn the function on and off.


I also did not see the scheduler problems, but I trust you guys are right about that being the more serious issue. I was just trying to do a little cheerleading to let TiVo know that there are still people out here who would very much like to have single-tuner overlap, a feature that every high-end DVR should have. And if they actually get it working properly, why would anyone want to turn it off? Choice is great, but I really don't see the need in this particular case.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

L David Matheny said:


> And if they actually get it working properly, why would anyone want to turn it off? Choice is great, but I really don't see the need in this particular case.


Would you rather wait however long it takes for TiVo to make it work perfectly (which might be never, without TiVo rewriting their code from the ground-up), or have the ability to enable/disable a function that works "good enough" (for those who don't mind a momentary video glitch), as-is, for those who don't use their TiVo in a way that the scheduler bug would occur?

I was OK with the "blink and you might miss it" glitch, and not affected by the scheduler issue. So, I'd turn it on, if it was an optional function.


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## dcline414 (May 1, 2014)

Well it seems this question has been answered, but in a different way than I was hoping for.

Still, a $50 Roamio OTA will work with a stream, so for the same price as a basic you can get 4-tuners and streaming if you don't need cable support.


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## flashedbios (Dec 7, 2012)

dcline414 said:


> Why remove OTA capability from a higher end model anyway?


Because if you are rich enough to be able to afford the high end model, you can afford cable.


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## NJ Webel (Dec 8, 2004)

flashedbios said:


> Because if you are rich enough to be able to afford the high end model, you can afford cable.


There isn't a correlation between the financial ability to afford cable and the desire to have it.

I have Comcast running to my house right now for internet only, but am OTA for my televisions by choice. I realize that my situation my well be unique, but the return on outlay is what drove my decision.


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## Captainbob (Sep 1, 2014)

NJ Webel said:


> There isn't a correlation between the financial ability to afford cable and the desire to have it.
> 
> I have Comcast running to my house right now for internet only, but am OTA for my televisions by choice. I realize that my situation my well be unique, but the return on outlay is what drove my decision.


I got tired of paying the cable and dish companies over a thousand dollars a year to have channels that I never watched.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Captainbob said:


> I got tired of paying the cable and dish companies over a thousand dollars a year to have channels that I never watched.


You were paying thousands of dollars a year to have channels that you could watch anytime you wanted.


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## Captainbob (Sep 1, 2014)

dswallow said:


> You were paying thousands of dollars a year to have channels that you could watch anytime you wanted.


Yeah, Like paying that money to watch channels that were a little less interesting than watching paint dry.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Captainbob said:


> Yeah, Like paying that money to watch channels that were a little less interesting than watching paint dry.


You have to paint something before you can watch it dry. And you have to have paint.


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## Scott42444 (Feb 5, 2015)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Yes, you are crazy. The hardware lineup TiVo currently offers isn't going to change anytime soon. They aren't going to add streaming capabilities to the base Roamio, because that would increase the costs. And they aren't going to add OTA to the Plus/Pro because that would increase the costs. The solution, if you want OTA and streaming is to just buy the stream separately. If you want to wait until the next generation of TiVo hardware to see if they change things around, that will probably be AT LEAST 3 to 4 years away, if ever. I suggest you just buy a base Roamio and a stream.


I WOULD have agreed with you about there being NO CHANCE that Tivo will create a new model of the Roamio that actually has all the features that are offered throughout their Roamio lineup. Until, they released the Roamio OTA for $50 and then announced at CES a $5,000 (or something outrageous) MEGA TIVO (!!!!) that has it's own in orbit satellite (just kidding, but it's got A LOT of storage space and is REALLY expensive). Heck, I'd pay double that for an OTA to Cablecard adapter. That probably makes ZERO sense for those who are much more technically inclined than I am, an OTA to CableCard adapter, but it's almost MADDENING that they DID release a new model of the Roamio, the OTA, that is a great idea business wise but shows that they RECOGNIZE consumer desire for a cord cutting option but don't allow those loyal Tivo fans to do that with the higher end, lifetime service models. Heck, I'd just buy a Roamio OTA and use THAT as a means to interpret the OTA signal and feed it into a Plus/Pro model Roamio if that was possilble. Why would there be a "Plus" model and a "Pro" model, which have only HDD space increases? That's TERRIBLE marketing. The "Pro" model should have ALL options! As the OP said, why wouldn't Tivo want this money I'm waving in the air? I cannot really justify spending $450 on 3 Tivo Minis upfront if they become useless. How would they become useless? Well, if I decide that I don't want Comcast Digital Cable anymore, at any point (most likely when my 12-24 month term is up and the prices get jacked up to unreasonable levels in comparison to the value provided) the Plus/Pro model Roamio box becomes...worthless? I only have the option of Comcast if I want digital cablecards. So then I would DOWNGRADE to an OTA in order to keep the Tivo Minis working, and let the $600 (give or take) Plus/Pro with Lifetime service just collect dust? Also, go down from 6 to 4 tuners, lose the ability to use the remote finder, have to invest another $100 or so dollars on a Tivo Stream, and get a network adapter to use the MoCa setup (because the MoCa bridge is included in the Plus/Pro models but not in the OTA/Basic models)? These are the EXACT reasons why nobody wants to invest in the Tivo setup.

It makes logical sense. Why pay $20/mo to Comcast (at the LEAST) or DirecTV or U-Verse to "lease" their crappy equipment, which you have to RETURN after you cancel service when you can pay $12.50/mo for Tivo service and KEEP the boxes forever? Great point, Tivo! Why use a lesser "DVR" service that is running on ancient software/hardware that has little to no features and can't even properly fast forward without having to play guessing games as to when you press "PLAY" (actually, I have to hit pause, wait 2 seconds for the recording to catch up and settle on the screen, then hit "PLAY" and most of the time quickly hit 7-second skip a couple times, then sometimes 30 second rewind, in order to get to the next segment of a network television show and skip the commercials)? With Tivo, you have the GRANDDADDY OF THEM ALL! A system that is STILL the best available, with more thought and love put into the SOUNDS (ba-boop, bi-boop) of system actions than the service providers put into the entire "DVR" system they are offering? Why switch from Video 1 to Video 2, wait for your Roku to "wake up", then fire up Netflix, then search through Netflix, to find something to watch? With the Roamio, you can just - "Search" and the system will do all of that for you! It's a REAL living room, media assistant that will HELP you access your videos, music, etc.!

Awesome job, Tivo! Now stop creating ARTIFICIAL handicaps of your own doing and allow your loyalists the option to HAVE OPTIONS moving forward! Making a $500 PLUS investment (that's insanely conservative for those going with a Pro/Lifetime combo) that basically forces you into bending over and accepting whatever "DEAL" Comcast is willing to provide for you even though Comcast hates Tivo and is actively attempting to put them out of business and make life as hard as possible, in regards to television "hard" anyway, for many of Tivo's happy customers attempting to use Cable Cards.

Sorry about the length of my rant here but I'm ticked off! I am finally buying a home and somehow, miraculously was given "permission" from my better half to go ahead and purchase the Tivo equipment because I was adamant about the superiority of the service itself but ALSO the financial savings of the service. BOO TIVO! BOO! Stop being weird and give the owners of the Plus and Pro model Roamios the ability to cut the cord! You will actually help to take some customers away from Comcast COMPLETELY and regain a foothold in the market! That's the ONLY thing holding me back and by an extension, my parents and my in-laws. Oh, and another household in my family. I would have ALL of them sign up immediately upon the cancellation of their current contracts.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Scott42444 said:


> So then I would DOWNGRADE to an OTA in order to keep the Tivo Minis working, and let the $600 (give or take) Plus/Pro with Lifetime service just collect dust?


Sell it on ebay and use the money to buy a Roamio OTA.



Scott42444 said:


> Also, go down from 6 to 4 tuners


If you want more tuners, buy 2 OTAs and then you'll have 8 tuners.



Scott42444 said:


> have to invest another $100 or so dollars on a Tivo Stream, and get a network adapter to use the MoCa setup (because the MoCa bridge is included in the Plus/Pro models but not in the OTA/Basic models)?


Why do you think the OTA model is hundreds of dollars cheaper than the Plus/Pro? Because it doesn't have as much expensive hardware inside the box. And anyone who wants the Stream functonality or MoCA can just buy them as ad-ons.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Sell it on ebay and use the money to buy a Roamio OTA.
> 
> If you want more tuners, buy 2 OTAs and then you'll have 8 tuners.
> 
> Why do you think the OTA model is hundreds of dollars cheaper than the Plus/Pro? Because it doesn't have as much expensive hardware inside the box. And anyone who wants the Stream functonality or MoCA can just buy them as ad-ons.


All good points. I would add that I am glad the Pro and Plus don't have OTA. Why would I have wanted to pay more for something I have absolutely no need for? Just because someone wants the flexibility to change their mind about having cable in the future? Like you said, he should just buy a couple of base units if he wants flexibility and not force the rest of us to pay more for his convenience.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

No way for the pro/plus to have OTA since the chips don't exist for it. To have OTA and cable together you are limited to two tuners each or four total.. With cable or ota only it is still limited to four with those same chips.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

UCLABB said:


> All good points. I would add that I am glad the Pro and Plus don't have OTA. Why would I have wanted to pay more for something I have absolutely no need for? Just because someone wants the flexibility to change their mind about having cable in the future? Like you said, he should just buy a couple of base units if he wants flexibility and not force the rest of us to pay more for his convenience.


 Agreed, I have a Tivo HD and a 2 tuner premiere and don't have cable, if you bought a unit with 6 cable tuners why would you want to be saddled with OTA you most likely will never use. That being said, it would be nice if Tivo could put the base romaio in the same type of case as the pro and plus.


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