# Cablevision of Long Island "dropping" channels



## randyny (Jan 2, 2007)

Got the second postcard that Cablevision will require digital cable boxes for each to view certain channels (TLC, A&E, E!, truTV, animal planet, travel, monster, and SciFi, and some others) - under the guise of "continuous technological improvements.

So, I am planning on switching to FIOS, as I will never have a cable box in my life - let alone have them force it on me. It's a shame too, because I am totally pleased with the TV & internet service right now. My FIL had to get a box as well, and I hooked it up. One crammed menu of advertising and plus features - car shopping, real estate, classified, ppv, vod, etc. 

But I am thinking, I thought one of the major points of cable cards was to allow consumers to use their own technology. Is this legal? Obviously they found a loophole, or I just misunderstood the law.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

randyny said:


> Got the second postcard that Cablevision will require digital cable boxes for each to view certain channels (TLC, A&E, E!, truTV, animal planet, travel, monster, and SciFi, and some others) - under the guise of "continuous technological improvements.


Does that mean that they are going SDV (switched digital video)?


----------



## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

randyny said:


> Got the second postcard that Cablevision will require digital cable boxes for each to view certain channels (TLC, A&E, E!, truTV, animal planet, travel, monster, and SciFi, and some others) - under the guise of "continuous technological improvements.
> 
> So, I am planning on switching to FIOS, as I will never have a cable box in my life - let alone have them force it on me. It's a shame too, because I am totally pleased with the TV & internet service right now. My FIL had to get a box as well, and I hooked it up. One crammed menu of advertising and plus features - car shopping, real estate, classified, ppv, vod, etc.
> 
> But I am thinking, I thought one of the major points of cable cards was to allow consumers to use their own technology. Is this legal? Obviously they found a loophole, or I just misunderstood the law.


I also received this postcard about a week ago, but it was worded differently from the *previous* postcard that stated various channels would no longer be accessible using Cablecards, and that I needed a STB.

My interpretation, for what it's worth , is that this latest postcard is telling us that more channels are moving from analog to digital, but not necessarily switched digital.

To directly answer your question: It is legal.


----------



## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

This has been discussed extensively, please see:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=315932 and
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=315826 .

After 26 years as a Cablevision subscriber, I switched to FiOS on Wednesday. After canceling my Cablevision service also on Wednesday (see my discussion on the second thread listed) I received a call from one of their "retention" specialists on Thursday. They were very upset that I had left and wanted to know if I was dissatisfied or had a problem. I told them that the only reason I was leaving was due to their implementation of SDV which is a problem for TiVo S3 users and even if they offered the tuning adapter it would have required me to pay additional money each month. Of interest is that they were willing to beat my two year contract monthly subscriber fee with Verizon by about $10 or so per month. I told them that I now have two cable boxes in addition to the CableCards and now can receive premium channels on all of my TV's, so I doubted their offer would beat FiOS.

They are getting worried that fiber technology is going to steal customers thereby the traditional cable providers will have a difficult time retaining subscribers. Isn't competition great for us consumers?


----------



## leeherman (Nov 5, 2007)

DCIFRTHS said:


> I also received this postcard about a week ago, but it was worded differently from the *previous* postcard that stated various channels would no longer be accessible using Cablecards, and that I needed a STB.
> 
> My interpretation, for what it's worth , is that this latest postcard is telling us that more channels are moving from analog to digital, but not necessarily switched digital.
> 
> To directly answer your question: It is legal.


Your interpretation is correct if my conversation with a Cablevision rep is to be believed.

I was told that the channels in question will be accessible by CC or STB, much like when Speedvision went from analog to digital a couple years ago.

Also, FYI, I can still access the "Voom" channels that were supposed to be inaccessible to CCs after 4/15.

LH


----------



## Royster (May 24, 2002)

I got the postcard this week. this is the first I'm hearing that it might not be accurate.

I do have a question. If I give up my Cablevision service and return their cards, will the programs I recorded from HBO still be viewable? or do they need an active Cablecard just to view them.


----------



## Monte87 (Feb 4, 2006)

I received a postcard from CableVision in NJ. Now the Music Choice channels are not available without a setup box. :down:
Seems like this will happen more and more until the CableCard is useless. Then what happens to a TiVo HD that requires CableCards to tune in anything digitally?


----------



## sathead (Jan 12, 2008)

Got the letters from Cablevision (Long Island) and I called them Monday Morning- I posted the results of my conversation in this thread- see POST #5:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=393137


----------



## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

Royster said:


> I got the postcard this week. this is the first I'm hearing that it might not be accurate.
> 
> I do have a question. If I give up my Cablevision service and return their cards, will the programs I recorded from HBO still be viewable? or do they need an active Cablecard just to view them.


They will be viewable as long as your hard drive is okay. Cablecards are for accessing digital channels, not anything else.


----------



## Royster (May 24, 2002)

JacksTiVo said:


> They will be viewable as long as your hard drive is okay. Cablecards are for accessing digital channels, not anything else.


It was possible that they were still encrypted on the HD and needed to retrieve a key to access. It's good to know that isn't the case.


----------



## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

Royster said:


> It was possible that they were still encrypted on the HD and needed to retrieve a key to access. It's good to know that isn't the case.


My shows on my S3 that were recorded while on Cablevision with SA CableCards can be watched even though my S3 now has Motorola CableCards. Don't worry about it they can be viewed when you switch over.


----------



## randyny (Jan 2, 2007)

Well, it's kind of ironic, (for cablevision at least), I was (am) happy with cablevision service for internet and tv. With this stupid p[ostcard threat they sent, it made me look at alternatives. I pay $53/mo for Verizon phone, and $127/mo for cable tv & internet. If I move to FIOS I can get the whole shebang for ~135 or so a month, with faster internet. It's something I wouldn't have considered had I not gotten their threatening postcard.

It;s funny though, today's cable boxes may be fine quality technology. But having lived through the original box when I was a kid (remember three rows of twelve physical buttons hard-wired to the tv, and you got 36 channels?) and the new-fangled electronic box thereafter, I reasoned that it was unnecessary and saw it affected tv picture quality. I decided never to buy into that scam again. 

I even sold tv's for a time. They came with a giant four-prong jack in the back to accommodate the expected pre-cursor to the cablecard, although it never materialized.

Thank goodness we have competition in this area now. Thank you FIOS!


----------



## Monte87 (Feb 4, 2006)

I received ANOTHER post card today. More channels are gone! CableVision will keep removing channels until the HD TiVo with cablecards is useless! Forcing us to take services we don't want (cable boxes) are actions of a monopoly. What is TiVo going to do about it? The FCC mandates that carriers have to support Cablecards but do they have to actually provide any channels through it? This stinks!


----------



## hmm52 (Feb 25, 2008)

Verizon expects to have their own request_and_send system in place nationwide by 2010. One of the primary benefits to VZ's future IPTV design (in their view) is the ability to monitor individual subscriber's viewing habits, and do targeted advertising accordingly. 

Minimal competition doesn't guarantee that we get what we want.


----------



## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

I'm confused by the original post. This is the Series 3 forum, you stick the cable cards in your Series 3 and you can view these channels, no need to find a different provider, what's the problem?


----------



## sathead (Jan 12, 2008)

btwyx said:


> I'm confused by the original post. This is the Series 3 forum, you stick the cable cards in your Series 3 and you can view these channels, no need to find a different provider, what's the problem?


As a classic example of poor planning/timing- in addition to migrating some of their most popular analog channels to digital only, Cablevision is also simultaneously converting it's 15 Voom HD channels to SDV- which makes the TiVo's useless for viewing those 15 HD channels.
The confusion stems from the lack of information in the two different letters recently sent out to Cablevision subscribers. Basically, the letters lead you to believe that you will need a cable box to view both the new digital only channels and the Voom HD channels. But, in fact- the new digital only channels (SciFi, TLC, Animal Planet, E!, A&E, etc..) do work perfectly in our TiVo's with cablecards. The Voom HD channels will not work with the TiVo's with cablecards once they're migrated to SDV. Cablevision has caused much confusion among it's three million plus subscribers because of poorly written/timed letters sent to subscribers. If they had simply mentioned that subscribers with cablecards need to do nothing to continue viewing the new digital only channels they would have avoided much confusion among it's subscribers.


----------



## randyny (Jan 2, 2007)

I will say that none of the threats have come to pass as of yet - I still get scifi, and HD Monster channel. If the cable cards make everything work, then fine. But they send me a postcard saying I *need *a box to view a bunch of channels, well, how can I read anything else into that?


----------



## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

btwyx said:


> I'm confused by the original post. This is the Series 3 forum, you stick the cable cards in your Series 3 and you can view these channels, no need to find a different provider, what's the problem?


The problem is they HAD cable cards already, getting digital channels, but their provider is changing many channels to "switched video", which can't be accessed by cable cards.

Supposedly there's a fix on the way, but for now if a cable company begins using "switched video", certain channels won't be on the cable all the time, and only become available if your cable box "calls for them".

Since the cable cards aren't able to simulate this aspect of the boxes, it means those channels aren't available, even to a TiVo 3/HD with cards.

I thought this was made pretty clear by all the "victims" who've posted above.


----------



## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

gastrof said:


> I thought this was made pretty clear by all the "victims" who've posted above.


Actually, its unclear if they're being moved from Analog to digital only or from digital to SDV. Reading the original post I thought the analog was going away, which wouldn't be a problem for an S3. Reading the following posts, its still unclear what exactly is happening.


----------



## sathead (Jan 12, 2008)

btwyx said:


> Actually, its unclear if they're being moved from Analog to digital only or from digital to SDV. Reading the original post I thought the analog was going away, which wouldn't be a problem for an S3. Reading the following posts, its still unclear what exactly is happening.


This should clear up the confusion- there are two separate issues here....

ISSUE #1: As of 5/13/2008- Sci-Fi, E!, TLC, Animal Planet, A&E and Travel Channel - have been migrated from analog to encrypted digital only format on many Cablevision nodes. As long as you have a TV with a cable box, Cablecard or TiVo with Cablecard(s) you can view the above listed channels in the new digital format. They are not unencrypted QAM BTW.

ISSUE #2: Cablevision's 15 Voom HD channels are going SDV only very soon- will need one of the SA cable boxes to view any of the Voom channels after to migration to SDV. Bad news for subscribers who have TV's with cablecards or TiVo users as there's no SDV solution for either yet.


----------



## Monte87 (Feb 4, 2006)

The first postcard I received said that the MusicChoice channels would require a cable box going forward. Sure enough, I used to receive them on TiVo with CableCards...and now they don't come in.
The second postcard (dealing with Sci-Fi, E!, etc.) says the change will happen by 6/10/08.


----------



## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

Hopefully, your cable company and TiVo will come up with the tuning resolver they've been promising. They may even be beta testing them at the moment. You can sign up for TiVo's beta programs at http://fieldtrials.tivo.com/


----------



## btwyx (Jan 16, 2003)

News about the Tuning resolver (now called tuning adapter) over here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6298152#post6298152


----------



## Monte87 (Feb 4, 2006)

Sathead was correct writing "Cablevision is also simultaneously converting it's 15 Voom HD channels to SDV- which makes the TiVo's useless for viewing those 15 HD channels."
I can still receive the TLC, SciFi, Travel, etc. with the CableCard. I did lose the 15 Voom channels though & CableVision didn't even say anything about it !


----------



## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

I gave up with Cablevision and their postcards. Switched to FiOS on May 7 and have no regrets. Cablevision's response to me when I complained about their implementation to SDV without a solution for CableCard users was essentially "too bad for you, but it is a business decision we are making". (IMHO, their strategy is to make TiVo's obsolete so that their viewers will then rent their DVR's.)

Now that I have left, I have already received 3 calls and a home visit from Cablevision asking me the same question over and over, "why did you leave?". I told the last caller to check my answer I gave to the previous callers/visitor. (BTW, I was with them for 26 years.)


----------



## Monte87 (Feb 4, 2006)

I totally understand why you left, JacksTiVo... Are you using the FIOS dvr or still use your TiVo's? How do you tune & record FIOS with your TiVo's?


----------



## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

Monte87 said:


> I totally understand why you left, JacksTiVo... Are you using the FIOS dvr or still use your TiVo's? How do you tune & record FIOS with your TiVo's?


The Series 3 uses CableCards and the Series 2 uses the digital converter box. The Series 1 uses its own tuner for the analog stations and Verizon stated that they would send me a free digital converter for it since they will be dropping analog service. I am waiting to receive it.
I do not use the FiOS DVR.


----------



## randyny (Jan 2, 2007)

While nothing has happened with my series 3 yet, my series 2 does not get scifi anymore, which is a main channel for me. So I called FIOS and am about to pullt he trigger on the triple play for 137/mo incuding movies & after taxes. Saving me $48/month. Should have done this a long time ago. Optimum online site says I am not eligable for their triple play anyway since i already have interent & tv from them. Fine. They can go pound sand.

After this, I think my answer will be to ditch the series 2, and use a hdmi/component over cat5/coax solution, with an IR extender - for the two tvs. The series 2 was on borrowed time anyway, since the arrival of the second HDTV in my house.

FIOS, when I called them looking to sign up, transferred me to the nicest, most pleasant woman. (Betty). Just give me 2 weeks to get my new email box socialized and I am there.

It's mixed emotions that I dump cable though. In the early years, their picture quality sucked big time. But, their ahead-of-the-game digital upgrade made amends on quality, and the internet service has been terrific. when it first came out, optonline was by far the fastest thing out there. By far. And I like that they played hardball with the YES network. And we like news 12. But I don't like the strongarm tactics.


----------



## twassel (Feb 20, 2006)

Where are you located? My S3 continues to receive all VOOM channels with CableCards, no box required. I am with Cablevision of Woodbury.


----------



## Fortynine (Jan 7, 2006)

I live in Smithtown and have Cablevision of Hauppauge. I lost all the VOOM channels about 3 weeks ago. I thought the change over to Switched Digital Video was an Island wide event, but apparently not. 

Prior to losing these channels I had signed up to add Cablevisions's phone service to the cable and internet I already have. When this happened I cancelled the install and stopped the transfer of my phone service over to them. I'm now considering moving to FIOS.


----------



## sathead (Jan 12, 2008)

I'm sick to death of Cablevision's nonsense and would drop them in a heartbeat if FIOS was available in my area of Suffolk county. I got the "business decision" quote when I asked about the SDV and digital migrations requiring a STB for every TV in the house. Well, the day FIOS is available in my area- I'm signing up. When Cablevision asks why I'm leaving (been a cust since 1991) I'll say "it a business decision!".


----------



## pdonoghu (Mar 6, 2003)

I lost Voom channels in early June. Connected out of the Oakland, NJ head end.


----------

