# TiVo Launches $50 Streaming Video Player to Take On Apple TV, Roku, Amazon Fire TV



## mbernste

Looks like TiVo is getting into the streaming stick game.

TiVo Launches $50 Streaming Video Player to Take On Apple TV, Roku, Amazon Fire TV

Apparently more content will be coming to TiVo+ as well.


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## snedecor

Disney+ is the key to making this successful.


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## mntvjunkie

mbernste said:


> Looks like TiVo is getting into the streaming stick game.
> 
> TiVo Launches $50 Streaming Video Player to Take On Apple TV, Roku, Amazon Fire TV
> 
> Apparently more content will be coming to TiVo+ as well.


This definitely plays to Tivo's strength of being able to curate content from all sources, and makes good on the promise of the Tivo Roamio. Since it is Android based, app support isn't an issue, it's simply now about writing the software to use the API's to determine where given content is. I particularly like that you can set up a "season pass" of sorts to be alerted when something shows up down the line on one of the streaming services, which is something nobody else is doing today. If they can support all of the streaming service providers, including DVR'ed content by them, this could be a win.

That being said, what does the business model look like? Is Tivo+ the ONLY way they make money on this, or will there be a subscription cost for the Tivo software? A $50 stick that curates all OTT services isn't a hard sell against Roku, Apple TV, Amazon, etc. But a $50 stick that also costs even $5 a month is a non-starter for me, since Roku, AppleTV, and Amazon all offer "good enough" versions of this with no monthly fee. Apple does it with no advertising, while Roku and Amazon do it with advertising for other apps/channels on the respective platforms.


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## mntvjunkie

snedecor said:


> Disney+ is the key to making this successful.


Since this is Android based, any app available on Android should be able to work with this. (Hopefully they worked out a deal with Google to have the native Google apps as well). As long as Android continues to be a thing, that means the apps should stay updated as well.


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## webcrawlr

Finally moving something of their's on to Android. About time!


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## EWiser

The TiVo Stream 4K is an unexpectedly exciting media streamer


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## LoadStar

Another question: will this incorporate TiVo Mini functionality?


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## pl1

mntvjunkie said:


> But a $50 stick that also costs even $5 a month is a non-starter for me, since Roku, AppleTV, and Amazon all offer "good enough" versions of this with no monthly fee. Apple does it with no advertising, while Roku and Amazon do it with advertising for other apps/channels on the respective platforms.


From TiVo.com:

Fast and easy integrated search with *no additional TiVo service fees.*

Access to live TV and a cloud DVR from Sling TV.

Top streaming services plus over 5,000 apps on *Google Play*.

Stunning picture quality with 4K UHD and Dolby Vision HDR.

Get more done with the Google Assistant and more.


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## BigJimOutlaw

LoadStar said:


> Another question: will this incorporate TiVo Mini functionality?


According to CNET, *no Tivo hardware compatibility at the start,* as this was built "from the ground up" but it's on the roadmap. So who knows if that will mean months or years.

Still, this is the retail future.


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## d_anders

LoadStar said:


> Another question: will this incorporate TiVo Mini functionality?


That's my question as well. Reading what the news sources are noting, it's like their reporters didn't even ask the question. When they note Live TV and DVR, they are deferring to SlingTV. Time to check out Zatz and see if he has the scoop.


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## LoadStar

BigJimOutlaw said:


> According to CNET, *no Tivo hardware compatibility at the start,* as this was built "from the ground up" but it's on the roadmap. So who knows if that will mean months or years.


Interesting.

if they parlay what they learned from the development of the Android app *last* CES, it seems to me that it wouldn't be hard at all to incorporate that into *this* product.


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## m_jonis

Wonder if this will allow you to stream TO the device? ie: Downloaded Netflix/Amazon content onto iPhone/iPad, you can share/send to a Roku/Fire TV stick currently)


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## cwoody222

So why is this better than a Roku or FireTV?

Because it has the TiVo UI and is Android? (personally I avoid Google)


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## LoadStar

cwoody222 said:


> So why is this better than a Roku or FireTV?
> 
> Because it has the TiVo UI and is Android? (personally I avoid Google)


If the promise holds true, yeah. Having all your streaming providers integrated into a single TiVo interface, including live TV and live grid guide functionality courtesy of Sling TV.

This promises to be a good transition tool for those who are currently cable or satellite subscribers, who have been put off by the state of streaming providers as they are now.


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## Sywlgee

You guys can check it here: 
TiVo Stream 4K


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## dave13077

Now add Hulu with Live TV and we (well me anyway) are set!!


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## Mikeguy

And so, TiVo now is trying to play catch-up with Roku, Amazon/Fire TV, Apple TV, etc., and to be better than them.

A good deal of this seems to turn on (from the various articles):


> Unlike nearly every other streaming player on the market, TiVo has come up with a single, cohesive menu for browsing across streaming services, starting with Sling TV and very likely including Netflix, Hulu, HBO, and Amazon Prime at launch.





> "With TiVo Stream 4K, we have created a dramatically better experience for viewers who are tired of hunting through apps and interfaces to find the amazing content available through online content providers," Shull said in announcing the product.


Unfortunately, the precursor to this, TiVo+, has been less than successful and seemingly far from the organized, cohesive experience Shull evangelizes. And, if I'm understanding correctly, this all comes with a further subscription cost, for Sling TV, the only confirmed partner in this, as of now.

If successful, it could be superb. But the proof is in the pudding and execution. Certainly, TiVo+ hasn't been a good and promising starting point.


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## trip1eX

looks like this is the product for people without Tivos.


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## cherry ghost

Based on how my Bolt currently handles OnePasses for streaming shows, I don’t have much faith this will work well.


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## realityboy

cherry ghost said:


> Based on how my Bolt currently handles OnePasses for streaming shows, I don't have much faith this will work well.


Hopefully, this leads to improvements in that area. I would need to see it work reliably on a current DVR before I would believe that it would work any differently on the new streamer.


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## wmcbrine

> "With TiVo Stream 4K, we have created a dramatically better experience for viewers who are tired of hunting through apps and interfaces to find the amazing content available through online content providers," Shull said in announcing the product.


That's cool, but my Apple TV already does that really well. Granted, this would be cheaper.

Over on Cord Cutters News, commenters are saying that this is a rebadged AirTV Mini (with different software).



> According to CNET, *no Tivo hardware compatibility at the start*


Pathetic.


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## trip1eX

I might get one of these. I sold my Tivo system. I switched to YTTV. I see the Google Voice button. And it's AndroidTV. I'm thinking this will work really with YTTV ....assuming it supports it. AT least I would like to see if it does. And it's only $50 with a Tivo remote even.

Not that I need it. I have 2 appletvs and Roku built-in to a 3rd tv.


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## mrsean

It's strange to see the media fawning over a Tivo product since it's been so long since they have released anything decent. The last worthwhile device was the Tivo Mini after that everything went to sh-t IMHO.


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## realityboy

trip1eX said:


> I might get one of these. I sold my Tivo system. I switched to YTTV. I see the Google Voice button. And it's AndroidTV. I'm thinking this will work really with YTTV ....assuming it supports it. AT least I would like to see if it does. And it's only $50 with a Tivo remote even.
> 
> Not that I need it. I have 2 appletvs and Roku built-in to a 3rd tv.


I wonder if Sling TV is the exclusive partner for streaming live TV? I would be more interested if it worked with Hulu Live or YouTube Tv.


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## wmcbrine

It makes me sad just seeing that remote with no thumbs.

Interesting that they re-used the "Stream" name for this entirely different product.


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## wmcbrine

Sywlgee said:


> You guys can check it here:
> TiVo Stream 4K


"The connection has timed out"


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## Fugacity

realityboy said:


> I wonder if Sling TV is the exclusive partner for streaming live TV? I would be more interested if it worked with Hulu Live or YouTube Tv.


Since tvguide.com shows sling tv as a provider i can choose, my guess is that rovi already has this data and provides sling tvs listings. Easy low level, low cost fruit to show what the capabilities are, question is will they expand to the other providers.


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## Mikeguy

wmcbrine said:


> It makes me sad just seeing that remote with no thumbs.
> 
> Interesting that they re-used the "Stream" name for this entirely different product.


Interesting point(s). I wonder if TiVo now will sue itself for trademark infringement.


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## trip1eX

realityboy said:


> I wonder if Sling TV is the exclusive partner for streaming live TV? I would be more interested if it worked with Hulu Live or YouTube Tv.


Doubt it's exclusive. MIght be exclusive to universal search though. Or Sling is the only one that said yes to it. Google surely doesn't want anyone else handling search other than them. But probably just a marketing partnership. We'll throw your name on the box and in our marketing. You give us money back depending on how many Sling users we attract or sign up. But of course I don't know.

Tivo website does say access to 5000 apps in the google play store. I assume that means YTTV and others are possible.

It would be a very limiting product if it only worked with one live streaming service.


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## tomhorsley

All the folks reviewing this product seem to be suffering from acute malignant optimism, thanks to Rex Stout for the phrase . Have none of them examined the TiVo track record?


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## markp99

trip1eX said:


> And it's Android. It would be weird if there was no YTTV possible.


Agree. I use YouTube TV on my Shield AndroidTV; its just another app. Integration into TiVo's consolidated search would be cool, though I'm doubtful that would happen. Search on YTTV is a weak point, IMO.


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## cwoody222

Any reason why SlingTV has poor local channels coverage in my market (and I assume other markets)?

I’ve checked out the local offerings of other life streamers and they mostly have all locals and Sling has zero here, which seems odd.


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## blacknoi

In addition to my 2 Bolts and 3 minis, I've also been planning for a post-cable future by subscribing to AT&T TV Now.

Please Tivo, also support AT&T.

With that aside, I sure also hope they allow it to stream stuff as if it was a Tivo Mini... seems like a great way to capitalize on your existing retail customers (shrinking yes, but we still exist).


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## wizwor

BigJimOutlaw said:


> According to CNET, *no Tivo hardware compatibility at the start,* as this was built "from the ground up"


IOW they put their logo on someone else's android box?


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## wmcbrine

EWiser said:


> The TiVo Stream 4K is an unexpectedly exciting media streamer


Nice image of TiVo+:










I haven't moved to TE4, but I understand it looks a little different there, eh?

Also, he says:



> Apple TV comes close with its confusingly named TV app, but it doesn't integrate with Netflix and doesn't provide its own grid guide for live TV.


But AFAICT, the lack of Netflix integration is Netflix's choice. I'm not sure why they would choose differently for TiVo, and that appears to be merely supposition on his part ("... very likely including Netflix, Hulu, HBO, and Amazon Prime at launch.").

(Apple TV does find content within Netflix, it just doesn't let you track it in "Up Next", as it does with other services. (Actually, maybe it works now? I just tried an Apple TV search for "House of Cards", and got an "Add to Up Next" button. Or maybe it's just the automatic tracking that doesn't work (i.e. start watching from the Hulu app, for example, and Apple TV already knows about it -- this didn't work with Netflix). Hmm...))


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## NashGuy

trip1eX said:


> Doubt it's exclusive. MIght be exclusive to universal search though. Or Sling is the only one that said yes to it. Google surely doesn't want anyone else handling search other than them. But probably just a marketing partnership. We'll throw your name on the box and in our marketing. You give us money back depending on how many Sling users we attract or sign up. But of course I don't know.
> 
> Tivo website does say access to 5000 apps in the google play store. I assume that means YTTV and others are possible.
> 
> It would be a very limiting product if it only worked with one live streaming service.


It's highly likely that this device will run the Android TV apps for YouTube TV, Hulu with Live TV, etc., from the Google Play Store. I think the only "exclusive" aspect about Sling is that it's the only live channel-based service right now (other than TiVo+) that feeds into TiVo's own grid guide/UI. (I assume that grid guide assigns channel numbers to each channel, otherwise what's the point of the 0-9 keys on the remote?)

It would be trivial for TiVo to allow HDHomeRun tuners to feed into their grid guide too. (In fact, I'm pretty sure that Google has built functionality into the Android TV OS to easily allow for it, it would just be a matter of whatever app that displays the live channels to fetch the free program guide data online from Silicon Dust's servers.) Maybe we'll see that happen, although probably not if TiVo has ambitions to release a competing similar product.


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## foghorn2

cwoody222 said:


> Any reason why SlingTV has poor local channels coverage in my market (and I assume other markets)?
> 
> I've checked out the local offerings of other life streamers and they mostly have all locals and Sling has zero here, which seems odd.


Because they dont want to force people into paying for local channels they already get with an antenna. Like me. And I use a airtv/dvr with sling so its all there in one guide.

The way it should be. Sling is the least bundled service out there.

If you cant get locals, then I suggest YouBoobTV


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## Headford

Looked at the press kit on TiVo.com.

Has Chromecast support. Wonder if it will also have Google Stadia support (currently supported by Chromecast Ultra and rumoured to be supported in upcoming Android TV v 11 -- may need HDMI 2.1 support for Stadia).


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## NashGuy

blacknoi said:


> In addition to my 2 Bolts and 3 minis, I've also been planning for a post-cable future by subscribing to AT&T TV Now.
> 
> Please Tivo, also support AT&T.


That's probably more in AT&T's hands. They have yet to offer their AT&T TV app for Android TV in the Google Play Store. Instead, they've done something kinda sorta similar to TiVo here by producing their own customized Android TV streaming device specifically for use with AT&T TV. You never know with AT&T but my hunch is that's all they plan to do for Android TV. They really want their customers to use their own streaming device but they're also relenting to market realities by supporting the popular Apple TV, Fire TV and Roku platforms too. Android TV devices sold at retail (such as the Nvidia Shield TV, Mi Box, and TiVo Stream 4K) haven't proven very popular so far.


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## foghorn2

This streamer looks a lot like the Sling AirTv mini, the Tivo stick is more square. Prolly the same thing with different software.


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## blacknoi

As a prior poster said, it'd be so cool if they could get HDHomeRun integration too... heck for that matter (since they already have the slingTV "in") why not also support the AirTV hardware as a way to feed it live-tv?

C'mon Rovi/Tivo/whoever you are in the future....


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## blacknoi

NashGuy said:


> That's probably more in AT&T's hands. They have yet to offer their AT&T TV app for Android TV in the Google Play Store. Instead, they've done something kinda sorta similar to TiVo here by producing their own customized Android TV streaming device specifically for use with AT&T TV. You never know with AT&T but my hunch is that's all they plan to do for Android TV. They really want their customers to use their own streaming device but they're also relenting to market realities by supporting the popular Apple TV, Fire TV and Roku platforms too. Android TV devices sold at retail (such as the Nvidia Shield TV, Mi Box, and TiVo Stream 4K) haven't proven very popular so far.


I hear you, I actually beta tested their Osprey box (got one free), and then bought 2 more off ebay thinking I'll eventually go away from Altice so I'm with you... but I just love the Tivo Interface so much more and the wife acceptance factor is difficult to change GUIs.

The Osprey box is nice, a bit clunky/slow but once you get used to the cadence of pressing buttons a bit slower, it is consistent. They also allow for live stream pause buffering on their box (although presently its limited to about 2 minutes, vs Tivo's 30 minutes) but its going in the right direction as you can fully FF / Rew within the [limited] buffer.


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## mobilelawyer

This device has potential. If it is a re-badged AirTV Mini with new software, that may be good thing. I have that device and it is a good little performer. Which providers are going to be cooperating with this venture? That is the key. If the majors all hop in, this could be the most exciting $50 device we've ever seen!


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## NashGuy

blacknoi said:


> I hear you, I actually beta tested their Osprey box (got one free), and then bought 2 more off ebay thinking I'll eventually go away from Altice so I'm with you... but I just love the Tivo Interface so much more and the wife acceptance factor is difficult to change GUIs.
> 
> The Osprey box is nice, a bit clunky/slow but once you get used to the cadence of pressing buttons a bit slower, it is consistent. They also allow for live stream pause buffering on their box (although presently its limited to about 2 minutes, vs Tivo's 30 minutes) but its going in the right direction as you can fully FF / Rew within the [limited] buffer.


That's good to hear. I'm strongly considering switching my parents over from DISH (and Comcast broadband), which they've been on for years, to AT&T TV + Fiber once AT&T TV becomes available nationwide next month. I'm mainly just concerned about how reliable the service will be. Have you found AT&T TV Now to be buggy lately, used in conjunction with the Osprey?


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## BigJimOutlaw

wmcbrine said:


> Over on Cord Cutters News, commenters are saying that this is a rebadged AirTV Mini (with different software).


Suspected it would be a licensed platform. If true, then it should be capable of native mpeg2 playback and wouldn't have to require transcoding to function as a Mini -- IF/When they eventually get around to it.


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## NashGuy

mobilelawyer said:


> This device has potential. If it is a re-badged AirTV Mini with new software, that may be good thing. I have that device and it is a good little performer. Which providers are going to be cooperating with this venture? That is the key. If the majors all hop in, this could be the most exciting $50 device we've ever seen!


Yeah, I'm wondering whether or not TiVo has actually nailed down agreements with Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, HBO, etc. to participate in TiVo's UI on this device that integrates all those sources for easy tracking, browsing and searching of content across providers. Maybe they're just showing at CES what they *hope* it will look like at launch if all those key apps opt-in?

So far, I don't think any of the major players has achieved that on any streaming device. Apple has come closest with their TV app but Netflix refuses to fully participate.


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## NashGuy

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Suspected it would be a licensed platform. If true, then it should be capable of native mpeg2 playback and wouldn't have to require transcoding to function as a Mini -- IF they eventually get around to it.


I *think* that the hardware (dongle) used by both the AirTV Mini and the TiVo Stream 4K is a turnkey platform that Google had created to offer as a simple off-the-shelf option to encourage third parties to quickly get to market with their own Android TV devices.


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## Mikeguy

NashGuy said:


> *Yeah, I'm wondering whether or not TiVo has actually nailed down agreements with Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, HBO, etc. to participate in TiVo's UI on this device that integrates all those sources for easy tracking, browsing and searching of content across providers. *Maybe they're just showing at CES what they *hope* it will look like at launch if all those key apps opt-in?
> 
> So far, I don't think any of the major players has achieved that on any streaming device. Apple has come closest with their TV app but Netflix refuses to fully participate.


I assume no, or TiVo would be touting it now? One of the articles stated that TiVo only currently has an "official partner" deal with Sling TV. "The caveat here is that TiVo isn't yet providing an official list of services that will appear in the Stream 4K guide. While the company has demonstrated tie-ins with Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, and HBO, right now Sling TV is the only official partner."


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## srazook

It's too bad they choose Sling TV as their preferred subscription TV partner for streaming live TV. Sling doesn't have any local channels! YouTube TV and Hulu Live much better services, hopefully you'll also have the option to access them.


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## NashGuy

Mikeguy said:


> I assume no, or TiVo would be touting it now? One of the articles stated that TiVo only currently has an "official partner" deal with Sling TV. "The caveat here is that TiVo isn't yet providing an official list of services that will appear in the Stream 4K guide. While the company has demonstrated tie-ins with Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, and HBO, right now Sling TV is the only official partner."


Right. I think I read that same article, which is what prompted my post which you quoted. Hopefully TiVo does have the tie-ins with those streaming apps in place -- I assume such an arrangement would merely be an extension of the relationships that they already have for OnePass. (I also hope that they keep the streaming content database better updated for the Stream 4K than they used to for OnePass back when I had a Roamio OTA...)


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## NashGuy

srazook said:


> It's too bad they choose Sling TV as their preferred subscription TV partner for streaming live TV. Sling doesn't have any local channels! YouTube TV and Hulu Live much better services, hopefully you'll also have the option to access them.


You can download the YouTube TV and Hulu apps from the Google Play Store on the TiVo Stream 4K. It's just that your use of those live streaming TV services will be contained inside their own apps (just the same as if you used those apps on a Roku).

With Sling, the service feeds into TiVo's own UI, so you can access Sling's live channels as well as the TiVo+ free channels from TiVo's own grid guide.


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## kiadontknow

BigJimOutlaw said:


> According to CNET, *no Tivo hardware compatibility at the start,* as this was built "from the ground up" but it's on the roadmap. So who knows if that will mean months or years.
> 
> Still, this is the retail future.


If this is Android TV then the AndroidTV app promised last year will work on it. And since Tivo already has an Android app, Android certainly has the capability to stream from a Bolt\Edge.

But Stream4k vs a Tivo Mini Vox, Stream4k is a no-brainer.


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## d_anders

From this particular article, it's pretty clear you can use whatever TV app is available from the Google Play Store.

CES 2020: TiVo Enters the Streaming Fray, Teams With Sling TV | Light Reading

So, the ability to use Youtube TV and access Disney+ will be available from the start (albeit just as an individual "app")...the real point is on "integration" within the TiVo UI & Search. Given that the voice integration is using Google Assistant with API tie-ins into the TiVO UI, I assume the same voice assistance may be able to discover and access content from any standard play-store "apps" that tie into Google Assistant and Android TV api's already on their own?

For $50, I'll be glad to play. And the fact they plan to raise the price to $69, I'll get it upon release.

The only real disappointment is that it won't pull from existing TiVo DVRs and provide "Mini" like functionality. The only thing that is noted in the article is that functionality is "in the roadmap". I assume they wanted to focus first and foremost on cloud live tv and cloud dvr with a partner that likely is going to give them money for every subscriber.


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## Dan203

If it could replace the Mini I'd get one. As of right now it's just another $50 streaming "stick" with a slightly different UI.


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## BigJimOutlaw

kiadontknow said:


> If this is Android TV then the AndroidTV app promised last year will work on it. And since Tivo already has an Android app, Android certainly has the capability to stream from a Bolt\Edge.


We were promised Apple TV, Roku, and Fire TV apps. This android platform is it's own separate 4th entity and does not yet hook into the DVRs, per Tivo's comments to cnet.


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## srazook

I hope they come up with a way to receive local channels and integrate them into the TiVo UI & Search.


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## Scooter Scott

This is where they should have focused all along....they are definitely playing catch-up with this device.

It's a huge disappointment that they don't have the functionality to hook into their own DVR equipment yet. That almost seems like it should have been priority #1....


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## Wayoverpar1

LoadStar said:


> If the promise holds true, yeah. Having all your streaming providers integrated into a single TiVo interface, including live TV and live grid guide functionality courtesy of Sling TV.
> 
> This promises to be a good transition tool for those who are currently cable or satellite subscribers, who have been put off by the state of streaming providers as they are now.


Personally I would rather have seen a Roku Tivo. This would end all the streaming issues with current units and create a product people would want to purchase. I'm sure there are legal and financial issues that probably prevent this from happening. Just wishful thinking on my part.


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## cwoody222

kiadontknow said:


> But Stream4k vs a Tivo Mini Vox, Stream4k is a no-brainer.


Maybe for cord-cutters. But for cable subs with existing TiVo DVRs this offers nothing much of interest.


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## cwoody222

foghorn2 said:


> Because they dont want to force people into paying for local channels they already get with an antenna. Like me. And I use a airtv/dvr with sling so its all there in one guide.
> 
> The way it should be. Sling is the least bundled service out there.
> 
> If you cant get locals, then I suggest YouBoobTV


Who said I want to be forced? I just want the option.

I just find it odd that only Sling offers ZERO locals in my area.


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## Pokemon_Dad

d_anders said:


> From this particular article, it's pretty clear you can use whatever TV app is available from the Google Play Store.
> 
> CES 2020: TiVo Enters the Streaming Fray, Teams With Sling TV | Light Reading


Hilarious. So it can't access their own products, but if this is right we can install HD HomeRun and Channels DVR apps to stream from HD HomeRun boxes instead.

Sad. And way late. I waited and waited, and tried and tried to get TiVo working well with streaming. At this point I've installed Fire TV throughout the house, including Fire TV integrated TV sets, and that's all we'll need here for years.


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE

I see a lot of "should be" or "in the near future" "most likely ".
I'll wait
I should most likely buy in the future


Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## blacknoi

NashGuy said:


> That's good to hear. I'm strongly considering switching my parents over from DISH (and Comcast broadband), which they've been on for years, to AT&T TV + Fiber once AT&T TV becomes available nationwide next month. I'm mainly just concerned about how reliable the service will be. Have you found AT&T TV Now to be buggy lately, used in conjunction with the Osprey?


ATT TV Now has some bugs but nothing I'd consider show stoppers. Sometimes there are weird bugs (black outs that shouldnt be happening, or yesterday a weird issue with the osprey boxes now since resolved).

Definitely needs some more work but its gotten better over time.

Back on topic, I think I'll buy "1" out of curiosity to see how it works... I'm still rocking TE3 on my Bolts and Minis so it'll be a 1/2 way to see Hydra at least in concept.


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## mntvjunkie

pl1 said:


> From TiVo.com:
> 
> Fast and easy integrated search with *no additional TiVo service fees.*
> 
> Access to live TV and a cloud DVR from Sling TV.
> 
> Top streaming services plus over 5,000 apps on *Google Play*.
> 
> Stunning picture quality with 4K UHD and Dolby Vision HDR.
> 
> Get more done with the Google Assistant and more.


Thanks for the update, this wasn't available when I made my original comment. So the business model is likely similar to Roku then. Could be cool, but I see some shortcomings that prevent me from buying.


While it looks like you can install many apps from the Google Play store, Tivo will be selective in what is integrated with native search. If they release API's so that apps can integrate themselves, this could be cool (much like Apple TV does today). If not, then I think other boxes will be more powerful, as most other boxes already do the cross-platform search.
The fact that this cannot access other Tivo's is an epic fail on the part of Tivo, unless this is a pivot away from DVR's. They have an instant install base if this replaces the Mini, and a smooth transition from the DVR's of today (buy a Tivo Streaming stick today, so you can use sling tomorrow but keep Cable today)
It's a good start to be sure, and has a definite market, even if that isn't me today.


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## keenanSR

Haven't seen it mentioned so I'll go ahead and ask,

1) Dolby Vision?
2) HDR10? (HLG, HDR10+)
3) Atmos?
4) Match frame rate function? (to play native 23.967 Hz content in that frame rate and not forced at 60 Hz)

5) ??


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## realityboy

cwoody222 said:


> Who said I want to be forced? I just want the option.
> 
> I just find it odd that only Sling offers ZERO locals in my area.


At most, Sling offers Fox & NBC.


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## EWiser

No use for this device as I already have a great streaming device. Don’t really need a streaming device with a program grid like linear tv. One doesn’t watch streaming shows by what’s on at 8 pm. 
Streaming is all about what shows I am watch and what episode is next.


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## Dan203

The OnePass concept TiVo had was a good idea. It allowed you to keep track of both streaming and recorded shows in one place and easily decide what to watch. Unfortunately it didn’t work well in practice. They weren’t good at keeping the data up to date and because of API limitations of each service they couldn’t keep track of what you had already watched and what you hadn’t. 

These streaming services need to realize that providing data and a comprehensive API to 3rd parties, like TiVo, so they can aggregate their content with other streaming services is a good thing. It'll only make people more likely to actually subscribe to, and actually watch, their service.


----------



## mntvjunkie

Dan203 said:


> The OnePass concept TiVo had was a good idea. It allowed you to keep track of both streaming and recorded shows in one place and easily decide what to watch. Unfortunately it didn't work well in practice. They weren't good at keeping the data up to date and because of API limitations of each service they couldn't keep track of what you had already watched and what you hadn't.


This, 100%. Even Apple TV does this better for most of my apps. Tivo needs to get out of the way and just develop an API, similar to what Apple did with the TV app, so that ANY provider can be integrated into the "one search" system. Without Hulu Live, Youtube, Fubo, etc. this is severely hindered. Sling TV, while one of the cheapest services, is also one of the worst with channel and feature selection.

JustWatch already does this, so even just partnering with them would help a ton.


----------



## robojerk

I don't understand this device...

It's a $69.00 rebranded/skinned AndroidTV streaming device (they exist on Amazon or you can hack a FireTV stick) but their custom UI may not work with the AndroidTV apps as they have their own API for showing what shows are available on their UI
Zero ability to stream off an existing TiVO DVR (biggest fail IMO)
$30-$40/month SlingTV subscription for OTA tv if you want that option.

So pretty much it's just "Yet Another Streaming Stick" with TiVO UI with ZERO integration with existing TiVo DVR's. Cool I guess, but I'm not replacing my Roku's or Nvidia Shield anytime soon.

Honestly I think TiVO's present/future should've been to be able to stream from your own DVR to other devices in the household. But it seems they're not interested....


----------



## Dan203

If they can pair this device with a Tablo style headless OTA DVR and seamlessly integrate it with the cloud DVRs of at least one of the major skinny bundle offerings (SlingTV wouldn't be my first choice) then they could have something. But given then pace at which they're currently operating it could take years for them to do all that and by that time it'll be too late.


----------



## NashGuy

keenanSR said:


> Haven't seen it mentioned so I'll go ahead and ask,
> 
> 1) Dolby Vision?
> 2) HDR10? (HLG, HDR10+)
> 3) Atmos?
> 4) Match frame rate function? (to play native 23.967 Hz content in that frame rate and not forced at 60 Hz)
> 
> 5) ??


Yes, it does support Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos. And anything that has DV also has at least HDR10 (although I don't know about HLG.) Don't know about match frame rate either.


----------



## hapster85

I might find this enticing if it was fully integrated with my Roamio OTA. Being as it is not, and I already have Fire TV, there's not much incentive to get one. At least at the start. Will definitely be keeping an eye on its development.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## NashGuy

Dan203 said:


> If they can pair this device with a Tablo style headless OTA DVR and seamlessly integrate it with the cloud DVRs of at least one of the major skinny bundle offerings (SlingTV wouldn't be my first choice) then they could have something. But given then pace at which they're currently operating it could take years for them to do all that and by that time it'll be too late.


I'm pretty sure that this dongle is the same hardware as the AirTV Mini. (I believe both are using an OEM design commissioned by Google as a turnkey option to spur third-party adoption of Android TV.) And Sling has already got their own headless OTA tuner/DVR solution that works with the AirTV Mini, called the AirTV 2. And we know that TiVo is already partnering with Sling by making them their first integrated live TV service partner.

If I'm TiVo's CEO, I'd either try to quickly create my own copycat version of the AirTV 2 or work with Sling to just white-label theirs and engineer the TiVo app on the TiVo Stream 4K to operate it.


----------



## foghorn2

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Suspected it would be a licensed platform. If true, then it should be capable of native mpeg2 playback and wouldn't have to require transcoding to function as a Mini -- IF/When they eventually get around to it.


mpeg2 would be nice , esp with kodi and dvd iso's. Even FireTV 4k struggles with that, and interlaced video.


----------



## TostitoBandito

Don't really see the point of this compared to other options like the 4K firetv or roku sticks. I guess I could pay slightly more for Tivo's device and terrible app support? No thanks. It's also somewhat personally offensive to me since this kind of 4K streaming experience is what they promised on the Bolt I bought, but never came close to delivering on.

Maybe it makes sense for slingtv subscribers who like the Tivo UI, but that is a tiny niche right there. Outside of that, I'm not sure why anyone would buy this over the competition. Especially since Tivo is much more likely to up and disappear (and/or cease support) over the next few years than an Amazon or Roku or Apple.


----------



## Dan203

TostitoBandito said:


> Don't really see the point of this compared to other options like the 4K firetv or roku sticks. I guess I could pay slightly more for Tivo's device and terrible app support? No thanks. It's also somewhat personally offensive to me since this kind of 4K streaming experience is what they promised on the Bolt I bought, but never came close to delivering on.


This thing is running Android TV so app support will be whatever is available in the Google Play Store, not the limited set you get with a TiVo DVR or Mini.


----------



## TostitoBandito

Dan203 said:


> This thing is running Android TV so app support will be whatever is available in the Google Play Store, not the limited set you get with a TiVo DVR or Mini.


Not familiar with Android TV. Does that mean this is just a Tivo skin/UI over an Android device and Tivo doesn't control any of the app offerings and we aren't dependent on Tivo to obtain/update them? If so I guess that's a plus, but I still don't think it really offers much over the other devices which have been out there for a year or more now (and are often cheaper). I guess I'll look out for more reviews to see if any of the onepass stuff they're trying to do cross-app actually works this time around. If they execute that really well, that would be the only selling point to me.


----------



## Mikeguy

d_anders said:


> For $50, I'll be glad to play. And the fact they plan to raise the price to $69, I'll get it upon release.


I'm content enough to pay the extra $19 once we see what it really is and whether it really works and actually brings value. I appreciate your beta-ing it for me. 

After all, a year later and we're still waiting for the TiVo Roku, Fire, and Apple TV apps; and TE4 Suggestions, which we were told was being worked on almost 2 years ago after the new Suggestions system was released in essentially non-functioning form, still doesn't work. Oh, yeah, and there's the TE4 "glitch" in which shows transferred between TiVo boxes malfunction at around 10 minutes . . . .

edit: Oops, forgot one--show Guide data that is accurate (and even filled in).


----------



## spiderpumpkin

I wish they would also come up with an actual Tivo DVR running Android and have it do OTA, cable cards, streaming services guide integration and Android apps.


----------



## tommiet

I give it less than a year.... Too many others that have history of providing a nice product. Just way too late to get into this game.


----------



## Puppy76

Hmmm....wow. 

So my #1 concern is, how long does this get OS support for? Amazon does terribly (and also leaves their Firetv devices permanently in pairing mode, which is insecure). Roku seems to do pretty well...I think through to their third gen devices are still currently supported. 

I’d be super leery buying an android device without constant OS support, and the TiVo interface doesn’t sound that useful to me since regardless you’re going to be stuck using various interfaces. Remote might be good though...certainly better than apple’s horrible one. 

but the thing this needs, obviously (which everyone has pointed out) is SUPPORT FOR THEIR OWN DVRS. I mean duh?

and I’m not trusting their future promises after waiting a year for the seemingly almost finished apps that never came. 

I thought MAYBE this absorbed the Android app made for the FireTV, and they thought it would be a way to give themselves an edge in the hardware market. But noooope. At least not yet. 

it’s sort of like if apple released the Apple Watch, and it only worked in conjunction with Windows PCs...like huh? You don’t make it work with YOUR MAIN PRODUCT?!?

I don’t know if they just don’t want to cannibalizes sales of the outlandishly expensive TiVo Mini?

and $70? I mean that’s not terrible, except it is when Roku and Amazon sell you something similar for less, and quite possibly better, and both sell higher end devices for $100 and $120 respectively. 

the only thing to me this has going for it right now is it’s the first Android TV device from an actual reputable company for less than $150, buuuut that seems a bit flimsy to me. 

I guess the Apple TV can sort of work with a TiVo? That it’s the only thing you can “cast” to, and hopefully the remote works? 

ironically if it more or less works, it’s the best streaming device if you have a TiVo and want to use it in another room. And cheaper than a TiVo mini in many cases!


----------



## jlb

Doesn’t interest me at all at this point. My Bolt is working fine while I still have cable content. And I use my Apple TV for streaming and NOT the bolt apps. I want something that essentially becomes something that has mini capabilities or let’s me access my recorded content while away from home easily.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Joe3

Dan203 said:


> This thing is running Android TV so app support will be whatever is available in the Google Play Store, not the limited set you get with a TiVo DVR or Mini.


Is the TiVo app in the Google Play Store? If it is you would get access to your TiVo DVR.


----------



## NashGuy

Joe3 said:


> Is the TiVo app in Google Play Store? If it is you would get access to your TiVo DVR.


This device will come with a special TiVo app built in. (That's what pops up when you hit the TiVo button on its remote.) TiVo has stated that right now, you cannot use this device as you would a TiVo Mini, to access TiVo DVRs, but they hope to add that functionality in the future.


----------



## jlb

NashGuy said:


> This device will come with a special TiVo app built in. (That's what pops up when you hit the TiVo button on its remote.) TiVo has stated that right now, you cannot use this device as you would a TiVo Mini, to access TiVo DVRs, but they hope to add that functionality in the future.


Yeah, but the question is how long?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Puppy76

Joe3 said:


> Is the TiVo app in Google Play Store? If it is you would get access to your TiVo DVR.


It should be, but is not. 
They never even announced a version for Android tv, although presumably it could be identical or almost identical to the vapor ware FireTV version.


----------



## NashGuy

jlb said:


> Yeah, but the question is how long?


Heh. Good question, especially considering that they were talking about releasing Mini-like apps for Apple TV, Fire TV, etc. at LAST YEAR'S CES and they've yet to be released!


----------



## Puppy76

jlb said:


> Yeah, but the question is how long?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


considering the AppleTV, Roku, and FireTV all came out 6 months ago...oh, wait, that was vaporware. I wouldn't hold my breath for it, or buy it thinking it will come.
Right now the only streaming box that sort of works with them (at least in conjunction with an iOS device) is the AppleTV, and I don't know how well that actually works.


----------



## trip1eX

Puppy76 said:


> but the thing this needs, obviously (which everyone has pointed out) is SUPPORT FOR THEIR OWN DVRS. I mean duh?
> 
> and I'm not trusting their future promises after waiting a year for the seemingly almost finished apps that never came.
> 
> I thought MAYBE this absorbed the Android app made for the FireTV, and they thought it would be a way to give themselves an edge in the hardware market. But noooope. At least not yet.
> 
> it's sort of like if apple released the Apple Watch, and it only worked in conjunction with Windows PCs...like huh? You don't make it work with YOUR MAIN PRODUCT?!?
> 
> I don't know if they just don't want to cannibalizes sales of the outlandishly expensive TiVo Mini?
> 
> and $70? I mean that's not terrible, except it is when Roku and Amazon sell you something similar for less, and quite possibly better, and both sell higher end devices for $100 and $120 respectively.
> 
> the only thing to me this has going for it right now is it's the first Android TV device from an actual reputable company for less than $150, buuuut that seems a bit flimsy to me.
> 
> I guess the Apple TV can sort of work with a TiVo? That it's the only thing you can "cast" to, and hopefully the remote works?
> 
> ironically if it more or less works, it's the best streaming device if you have a TiVo and want to use it in another room. And cheaper than a TiVo mini in many cases!


Yeah except most people with Tivos who have more than 1 tv have MInis. IF they really hated the streaming they probably already have a streaming box for that nevermind their tv might have it built-in.

Good chance that watching recordings on this would be worse than watching them on a Mini aka would be even less responsive. IF so, would you buy one still?

And then it doesn't the solve the lack of apps on the Tivo itself. Your other tvs would have app support with this but the presumably main tv with the Tivo would not. Unless you bought one of these for that tv too. And switched inputs when streaming (in which case any streaming box would do) or you ran a headless Tivo.

I think this is for people who don't own Tivos. I mean the Sling partnership says it all right? The unified UI for streaming says it all.

At the same time, if they are still doing Tivo apps for ATV and FireTV and Roku, I"m sure one comes for this device too. Maybe they are just far behind on that. Typical. UNless they decided to drop support for apps that access Tivo recordings. If I was running the company, I wouldn't put my few resources into something that I didn't think was the future.


----------



## tivolocity

tommiet said:


> I give it less than a year.... Too many others that have history of providing a nice product. Just way too late to get into this game.


Agreed. Why would anyone buy this over the other streaming devices? Including most current TiVo users since it doesn't connect to the existing hardware? I certainly wouldn't. Plus, there can't be much of a profit margin. They should have just created an app.


----------



## mdavej

d_anders said:


> From this particular article, it's pretty clear you can use whatever TV app is available from the Google Play Store.


I'll believe it when I see it. Channel Master said the same thing about their Android TV "Stream+" OTA DVR box. Turned out it could only install a handful of apps from the Play Store. Among the apps missing were some pretty big ones like Netflix and Prime. Even the Nvidia Shield requires sideloading several apps. I wouldn't be surprised at all if lots of apps were unavailable/prohibited, especially those that compete with Sling.

In any case, no actual Tivo integration makes this very underwhelming. It's just another underpowered Android TV box whose only unique feature is running the extremely crappy Tivo+ app which most people are trying to remove from their Bolts and Roamios.


----------



## mdavej

cwoody222 said:


> Who said I want to be forced? I just want the option.
> 
> I just find it odd that only Sling offers ZERO locals in my area.


They're not singling our your area. Sling offers ZERO locals in ALL areas. The only way to get locals on Sling is via antenna. Any NBC, FOX, etc. that you see in the lineup are national feeds or on-demand only.


----------



## mdavej

Dan203 said:


> This thing is running Android TV so app support will be whatever is available in the Google Play Store, not the limited set you get with a TiVo DVR or Mini.


That's what Channel Master said about their Stream+. Wasn't even close. AT&T's Osprey box is also Android TV, but has access to an extremely limited set of Play Store apps. Just because it's Android TV doesn't mean access to everything. I wager it will be locked down pretty tight. I hope I'm wrong.


----------



## Dan203

mdavej said:


> That's what Channel Master said about their Stream+. Wasn't even close. AT&T's Osprey box is also Android TV, but has access to an extremely limited set of Play Store apps. Just because it's Android TV doesn't mean access to everything. I wager it will be locked down pretty tight. I hope I'm wrong.


Yeah I don't know about that. If they intend this to compete with FireTV, AppleTV, etc... then they would almost have to allow you access to all of the apps or it would be even less useful.

One thing to consider is that Android TV itself is a bit locked down. Only apps uploaded with a manifest file that specifically supports TV are shown in the Android TV store. So it's not the same as an Android phone or tablet.


----------



## cwoody222

mdavej said:


> They're not singling our your area. Sling offers ZERO locals in ALL areas. The only way to get locals on Sling is via antenna. Any NBC, FOX, etc. that you see in the lineup are national feeds or on-demand only.


I did not know that, thank you!


----------



## NashGuy

mdavej said:


> That's what Channel Master said about their Stream+. Wasn't even close. AT&T's Osprey box is also Android TV, but has access to an extremely limited set of Play Store apps. Just because it's Android TV doesn't mean access to everything. I wager it will be locked down pretty tight. I hope I'm wrong.


Netflix has its own set of security requirements and they require each individual streaming device to be blessed by them to get the Netflix app. That never happened for the Stream+.

As for the Prime Video app, for years they were only offering it to select Android TV devices (e.g. Sony smart TVs, Nvidia Shield TV) on which the app was pre-installed. But after somewhat burying the hatchet with Google, they're making it more widely available for Android TV but it still requires each OEM rolling out their own software update to their devices to deliver/enable the app.

All that said, we know Netflix is pre-installed on the TiVo Stream 4K (as the remote has a dedicated Netflix button). And the UI shots for the device, as well as TiVo's product page for it, tout Prime Video. So I think it's safe to believe that both of those apps will come pre-installed.

I don't know if there's anything special about the Android TV version of the Hulu app. It's on the Google Play Store but Google may give TV operators the option of disallowing access by their own Android TV Operator Tier devices to apps in the Store that are direct competitors to their own cable TV service. This may be why, for instance, AT&T TV's Osprey box can't download Hulu from Google Play (if in fact it can't -- I don't know).

I'm pretty sure Google would insist that all their own apps, including YouTube TV, be available on any retail-sold Android TV device such as the TiVo Stream 4K (although perhaps they would allow their pay TV partners like AT&T TV to keep it off the Osprey box?).

Once you get beyond those few high-profile apps, all other apps are distributed through the Google Play Store to any device that meets minimum hardware requirements (which should be anything capable of running a recent version of Android TV). I'm sure there's still the odd OTT video app here and there that still isn't available on Android TV but it's not missing much at this point other than Apple TV+.


----------



## Dan203

TostitoBandito said:


> Not familiar with Android TV. Does that mean this is just a Tivo skin/UI over an Android device and Tivo doesn't control any of the app offerings and we aren't dependent on Tivo to obtain/update them? If so I guess that's a plus, but I still don't think it really offers much over the other devices which have been out there for a year or more now (and are often cheaper). I guess I'll look out for more reviews to see if any of the onepass stuff they're trying to do cross-app actually works this time around. If they execute that really well, that would be the only selling point to me.


Theoretically yes. But the "provider" version of Android TV they're using does allow them to lock it down and block certain apps. I don't really think it would be in TiVo's interest to do that, but who knows what kind of deal they have with Sling or other partners to block out competition.


----------



## Dan203

mdavej said:


> They're not singling our your area. Sling offers ZERO locals in ALL areas. The only way to get locals on Sling is via antenna. Any NBC, FOX, etc. that you see in the lineup are national feeds or on-demand only.


That's interesting. So Sling doesn't offer any locals and TiVo makes a DVR specifically to record OTA. If they could seamlessly integrate the two then it could be a decent offering. Although IIRC Sling has some limits on their cloud DVR like only allowing you to keep recordings for 30 days and not allowing you to record anything at all that they offer VOD. So unless they allow TiVo to bypass those restrictions, or record the stream locally, it could be a weird combo.


----------



## mdavej

Dan203 said:


> That's interesting. So Sling doesn't offer any locals ...


That's how I'm reading their website. I've never tried Sling TV myself.
Watch Locals Online | Sling TV

Seems like a huge oversight for a device aimed at cord cutters.


----------



## alarson83

tommiet said:


> I give it less than a year.... Too many others that have history of providing a nice product. Just way too late to get into this game.


Yeah, Roku does such a great job with this already, not sure why i'd jump on this. Would have more value for me over a roku if i could plug it into a tv and pull my tivo content to it.


----------



## Dan203

mdavej said:


> That's how I'm reading their website. I've never tried Sling TV myself.
> Watch Locals Online | Sling TV
> 
> Seems like a huge oversight for a device aimed at cord cutters.


Getting locals to cooperate in streaming is hard. Not all of them are equipped for it and you can't just broadcast the national feed because they insert local commercials at the local broadcast station. There are literally thousands of local stations you'd have to partner with to offer them in every market.

That's why I've always thought a hybrid system that could integrate a streaming package like Sling with an OTA DVR like TiVo would be a perfect combo.


----------



## realityboy

Dan203 said:


> That's interesting. So Sling doesn't offer any locals and TiVo makes a DVR specifically to record OTA. If they could seamlessly integrate the two then it could be a decent offering. Although IIRC Sling has some limits on their cloud DVR like only allowing you to keep recordings for 30 days and not allowing you to record anything at all that they offer VOD. So unless they allow TiVo to bypass those restrictions, or record the stream locally, it could be a weird combo.


Sling's DVR tops out at 50 hours. I'm not sure of any other limitations.


----------



## exdishguy

And the transformation is complete. Tivo has finally transition from a market-leading innovative company to a Johnny-Come-Lately hack producing me-too products that completely dis-intermediates them from their existing install base.


----------



## Jim1348

foghorn2 said:


> Because they don't want to force people into paying for local channels they already get with an antenna. Like me. And I use a airtv/dvr with sling so its all there in one guide.
> 
> The way it should be. Sling is the least bundled service out there...


I am currently on AT&T TV Now. When it was $30 per month, I was fine with it. Then it went to $40 because they added DVR. I stayed. Now my Go Big is $60 plus tax per month, so I will be switching to Sling TV.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

exdishguy said:


> And the transformation is complete. Tivo has finally transitioned from a market-leading innovative company to a Johnny-Come-Lately hack producing me-too products that completely dis-intermediates them from their existing install base.


Well said. I'm very disappointed in them.


----------



## SullyND

I think it’s funny that Tivo is aligned with Dish (sling TV) for this.


----------



## Narkul

Not buying another piece of Tivo hardware until my Bolt is updated to the Android based app platform like their MSO boxes and this new dongle. I've been showing Tivo some love from the beginning, and like most of us, have given them 1000's of my dollars, and I'm ready for them to show me some love.


----------



## foghorn2

SullyND said:


> I think it's funny that Tivo is aligned with Dish (sling TV) for this.


well whres the sling app on the TiVo Ota? They are not married yet.

Probably never will happen .


----------



## tenthplanet

Fugacity said:


> Since tvguide.com shows sling tv as a provider i can choose, my guess is that rovi already has this data and provides sling tvs listings. Easy low level, low cost fruit to show what the capabilities are, question is will they expand to the other providers.


Rovi has supplied guide data to Dish/Sling for sometime, and yes there are some weird errors from time to time.


----------



## tenthplanet

cwoody222 said:


> Who said I want to be forced? I just want the option.
> 
> I just find it odd that only Sling offers ZERO locals in my area.


You have the potential for NBC and Fox in your locals in Sling Blue provided there is an agreement with the owners of your local stations. If your local stations are O&O, owned and operated by NBC or Fox you'll get them, otherwise you won't. Other services like ATT TV/Now and Hulu have had to make agreements with quite a number of station owner groups. It's comes at a cost ( it raises your rates).


----------



## shwru980r

I wonder if Tivo will push pre roll ads to this device.


----------



## manhole

SullyND said:


> I think it's funny that Tivo is aligned with Dish (sling TV) for this.


Agreed. I never thought I would see the day where Sling would be allowed on a TiVo device given TiVo's history of constantly suing Dish over patents.


----------



## foghorn2

tenthplanet said:


> You have the potential for NBC and Fox in your locals in Sling Blue provided there is an agreement with the owners of your local stations. If your local stations are O&O, owned and operated by NBC or Fox you'll get them, otherwise you won't. Other services like ATT TV/Now and Hulu have had to make agreements with quite a number of station owner groups. It's comes at a cost ( it raises your rates).


Whats interesting about Sling, is that when I record Fox News Sunday initiated from the Fox News tile (its delayed to the west coast) the recording is from a Dallas TX OTA broadcast feed from the local Fox Affiliate and earlier than the Fox News West coast feed. "Sling" Tv indeed!


----------



## nrc

It's a pity but being Android based probably makes this a hard no for me. Android/Google are a privacy nightmare and I'm not going to add tracking my TV viewing to their data mining. I remember the good old days when many TiVo users demanded the ability to absolutely opt out of TiVo data gathering <shakes fist at cloud>.

I suppose you could create a burner Google account to attach it to but I have no doubt that Google aggregates that data by matching IP addresses.


----------



## foghorn2

I dont care if Google tracks what I watch or Neilson, actually I want them to.


----------



## mattyro7878

What a bunch of negative Nellie's! Tivo finally puts out a product the industry seems to think is a step above in some aspects and half of you are dumping on it. What if 6 months from now it adds DVR functionality? What if it truly offers all that the Play store has to offer? What if Tivo plus gets some decent content? Sometimes I think some people just can't wait for the "CLOSED" sign to go up on Tivo. Lastly, any chance Comcast customers can download the Stream app? Stream app on the Stream device?!


----------



## mbernste

mattyro7878 said:


> What a bunch of negative Nellie's!


I've been of late pretty supportive of TiVo. I've said on this forum that TiVo+ has potential and that I don't mind the pre-roll ads (you should see the responses I got for that). I have to agree with those who said this is a "Johnny come lately" product. It's just another streaming device in a market oversaturated with streaming devices. As others mentioned, _If_ it integrated its own app with the guide and possibly some form of personal storage device (cloud, NAS, etc) you might have an interesting product, but on its own, it is, at best, meh.


----------



## Anotherpyr

Jim1348 said:


> I am currently on AT&T TV Now. When it was $30 per month, I was fine with it. Then it went to $40 because they added DVR. I stayed. Now my Go Big is $60 plus tax per month, so I will be switching to Sling TV.


I dropped them when they went over $40. I ditched AT&T all together as that removed the only reason to stay with their cell service.


----------



## RightHere

mattyro7878 said:


> a product the industry seems to think is a step above in some aspects


Source?



> What if 6 months from now it adds DVR functionality? What if it truly offers all that the Play store has to offer? What if Tivo plus gets some decent content?


If things change, we'll re-evaluate. Though if those things were on their near-term roadmap, I would've expected them to be announced here.

What they announced though, is a huge disappointment.


----------



## dianebrat

mattyro7878 said:


> What if 6 months from now it adds DVR functionality?


Tivo has a long history of pre-announced features never making it to the market so I think you'll find most of us have been burned enough to never assume a feature will appear until after we actually see it released.


----------



## Mikeguy

And yet, I still get sucked in . . . .


----------



## OrangeCrush

Dan203 said:


> That's why I've always thought a hybrid system that could integrate a streaming package like Sling with an OTA DVR like TiVo would be a perfect combo.


Which is funny, because Sling TV's own AirTV (which TiVo's offering appears to be based upon) does exactly that.



exdishguy said:


> And the transformation is complete. Tivo has finally transition from a market-leading innovative company to a Johnny-Come-Lately hack producing me-too products that completely dis-intermediates them from their existing install base.


Hardware made by somebody else + software made by somebody else + smearing TiVo logos on it and making a skin for the UI = Profit?



nrc said:


> It's a pity but being Android based probably makes this a hard no for me. Android/Google are a privacy nightmare and I'm not going to add tracking my TV viewing to their data mining. I remember the good old days when many TiVo users demanded the ability to absolutely opt out of TiVo data gathering <shakes fist at cloud>.


Privacy is a concern for me as well, but unfortunately, I don't see any available options that are all that much better than one another right now. All of our hardware spies on us as soon as we connect it to the Internet.



mattyro7878 said:


> What a bunch of negative Nellie's! Tivo finally puts out a product the industry seems to think is a step above in some aspects and half of you are dumping on it. What if 6 months from now it adds DVR functionality? What if it truly offers all that the Play store has to offer? What if Tivo plus gets some decent content? Sometimes I think some people just can't wait for the "CLOSED" sign to go up on Tivo.


I'll admit that I'm salty about all the broken promises and customer-hostile behavior. But if they're using powerful enough components in this and it's a competent streamer without performance problems, then it'll a good product at a good price point with a great remote. I especially appreciate having power and volume, so many others omit those. If all that bears out, I'd be happy to recommend this to friends and family.

However, experience has taught me to temper my expectations and pay no attention to what they say until the hardware and software is shipping. They are also very very late to the game, so I'm not seeing how this saves the company, so I'm not confident in their ability to support a product longer term.


----------



## srazook

I actually like this product, yes there are a lot of other streaming devices Roku, Amazon Fire and Apple TV. But this device is the only one that incorporates Live Streaming TV into its own grid guide/UI. It looks like you’ll have a familiar TiVo channel guide for searching, viewing and recording shows. The only problem I have is they partnered with Sling as their Streaming TV provider. Sling doesn’t have any, or at least very few local channels available. I know some people aren’t concerned about having the ability to stream live local channels, but many like myself are. PLEASE TiVo find a way to integrate Streaming Live Local Channels along with everything else you’ve incorporated into the device and I think you’ll have a winner!!


----------



## cwoody222

Is there a demo video anywhere yet?

Zatz doesn’t have one yet


----------



## babsonnexus

cwoody222 said:


> Is there a demo video anywhere yet?
> 
> Zatz doesn't have one yet


On TiVO's website, you can download the Media Kit which contains a video and pictures, though it doesn't show much.

CES 2020 | TiVo

I found page 2 of the data sheet most interesting:










So here's an interesting thought: even though it won't integrate from legacy TiVO products from the start (or ever, we'll see), with Chromecast we could cast the TiVO Android app to the device. I actually ran into this problem over vacation because my phone only casts to Chromecast and thus won't cast to Roku, and the TiVO website won't allow out of home streaming most of the time (my laptop can cast to Roku no problem). I have not wanted to buy a Chromecast just to allow me to cast my phone to a TV, so I was sticking with just the Roku's. However, this TiVO device theoretically has the TiVO promise of integrated OnePass across all apps with single interface making it much more worthwhile for a $50 test run.

Because of that, I think I'm game to take a $50 gamble on this one. Worst cast scenario I bought a decent Chromecast device for the times I need one (like showing pictures on a TV at the old folks place). Best case scenario, this will get integration from TiVO's legacy products so I can have a single interface of my OTA channels/recordings, TiVO+ channels (with the live guide version someone showed in an earlier picture), live guide from other source (SlingTV, Hulu Live, YouTubeTV, Locast[?!?!?!]), all OTT content from various providers, and--dare I say it--profiles for different users and better organizational options.

Either way, this is the closest I have seen to a single interface for all content aggregation yet. Of course, the devil will be in details (re: metadata), and TiVO hasn't had a great track record. But this is $50 gamble, not an $800 one, so it is relatively safe to give it a whirl.


----------



## stuart628

So I was pretty negative on this at first, but This answers everyones problems and people are really hating on it. Just give me a few things to explain here

#1. Unified search...This is a big thing and its only going to get worse, where is this show playing where is this at, what app amc or tnt has this show...blah blah blah. Without a guide it makes it very hard to find what you want..and its only going to get worse. 
#2. Live tv prices: They partnered with sling and this could be a very good thing. Sling is what 45 a month for all their channels (no add ons) then lets say tivo is 15 a month, that is 60 a month. That gets you one of the top live tv streaming services and OTA locals IF PLEASE READ THIS IF tivo does what they say ( I know I know track record here) and incorprates this like a mini. Honestly this is a very good chance for tivo to come through and you cant deny that and change how people feel about them. This would push adoption of this device+tivo a little more also gives everyone a nice guide (older folks) and hopefully makes transitions easier.
#3. One device to rule them all....A lot of unknowns on this one but Tivo has a chance here as its not released...dont screw it up.

There are some pretty big positives that could happen with this device if done properly. A lot of media coverage is really high on it and honestly if there was a company to do this right it would be tivo with all their patents....but if they dont and they continue with the tivo way from the last couple years then yep it is very deserving of the negativity and maybe it is time to leave tivo.


----------



## jcthorne

Dan203 said:


> That's interesting. So Sling doesn't offer any locals and TiVo makes a DVR specifically to record OTA. If they could seamlessly integrate the two then it could be a decent offering. Although IIRC Sling has some limits on their cloud DVR like only allowing you to keep recordings for 30 days and not allowing you to record anything at all that they offer VOD. So unless they allow TiVo to bypass those restrictions, or record the stream locally, it could be a weird combo.


Channels DVR is already integrating OTA and OTT streaming in a single guide/DVR/Search application. It actually works pretty well on an Nvidia Shield.


----------



## jcthorne

stuart628 said:


> #1. Unified search...This is a big thing and its only going to get worse, where is this show playing where is this at, what app amc or tnt has this show...blah blah blah. Without a guide it makes it very hard to find what you want..and its only going to get worse.


Tivo pioneered universal search years ago. And it ALMOST worked right before they ditched Gracenote program data for Rovi. When that happened the search results went so far off base it became useless along with onepass and other integration tools. As long as they are using Rovi for the data, this new face on the same data cannot give any better answers. The data is not there. Worse, it cannot integrate local content on Tivo or Plex either...BIG holes. For universal search, its got too much missing data to be useful.


----------



## stuart628

jcthorne said:


> Tivo pioneered universal search years ago. And it ALMOST worked right before they ditched Gracenote program data for Rovi. When that happened the search results went so far off base it became useless along with onepass and other integration tools. As long as they are using Rovi for the data, this new face on the same data cannot give any better answers. The data is not there. Worse, it cannot integrate local content on Tivo or Plex either...BIG holes. For universal search, its got too much missing data to be useful.


But as a search that incorporates streaming apps, and netflix and prime and all those, could it work...I understand the local plex holes but most cord cutters are not going that route...that is too complex for most people. The one pass manager experience netflix has is still better then most out there. People are catching on, but again I am not saying tivo is 100% there but has a chance to jump out in front.


----------



## tommiet

tivolocity said:


> They should have just created an app.


That's what they said they would do LAST YEAR..... Still waiting....


----------



## tommiet

I do have a couple of Amazon TV devices.. But I normally use my TV's built in apps to watch streaming stuff. My Samsung TV also has the Disney app too. The ONLY app I use on my TiVo is Netflix. 

TiVo is just out of touch with the business and its customers.


----------



## schatham

Even if it's the same as a Roku I will get this for the remote. I hate the tiny remotes on Roku and Apple TV.


----------



## Joe3

RightHere said:


> What they announced though, is a huge disappointment.


What they announced. How can they be trusted to deliver?

Where are their apps they announced at last year's CES?

Rovi has upended TiVo 's consumer electronics status for a milking customer device. They should have not been allowed to return to CES after lying last year.

Believe anything they say at CES at your own risk of huge dissatisfaction and disappointment.


----------



## NashGuy

mattyro7878 said:


> What a bunch of negative Nellie's! Tivo finally puts out a product the industry seems to think is a step above in some aspects and half of you are dumping on it. What if 6 months from now it adds DVR functionality? What if it truly offers all that the Play store has to offer? What if Tivo plus gets some decent content? Sometimes I think some people just can't wait for the "CLOSED" sign to go up on Tivo.


Heh. Well, I'm cautiously optimistic about this device. As others have said, we'll have to see how well TiVo handles the metadata from the various streaming sources to successfully pull off a unified UI that presents and tracks content commingled from various leading apps/services. I'll be watching the reviews come in. If it's good enough, I just might buy one and switch to it over my Apple TV 4K.

AFAIK, I was the first one on this forum years ago yammering on about how TiVo should adopt some form of Android (either skin their own version of open-source Android like Amazon did with Fire TV, or more simply just adopt Google's Android TV) because that was the only plausible way for them to solve their sad situation with streaming apps. So I'm happy to see that they've done it for a retail consumer device.



mattyro7878 said:


> Lastly, any chance Comcast customers can download the Stream app? Stream app on the Stream device?!


Here's all I can tell you: Comcast had developed an Android TV version of their Stream app and showed it off running on an Nvidia Shield TV device a long while ago. (Couple years?) But it was just a beta demo thing at some kind of trade show. They've never officially announced any plans to support Android TV and I'm pretty sure that Comcast doesn't even authenticate TV everywhere apps (like HBO Go and Showtime Anytime) for use on Android TV devices. So don't get your hopes up.

If Comcast ever does decide to support any Android TV devices, I suspect that they'll do what Netflix and Amazon do, which is to only roll out their app to whichever select Android TV devices they want, rather than release the app in the Play Store for installation on anything. Android TV is a weird platform in that it's used both in retail devices and also -- perhaps even more so -- in pay TV operators' devices. In fact, the future of pay TV set-top box operating systems seems to be coming down to RDK (a software stack developed and backed by Comcast, Charter and Liberty Global) vs. Google's Android TV Operator Tier (used by the new AT&T TV, Sling, and gobs of non-US operators). So I really don't know if we'll ever see Comcast support Android TV at all.


----------



## mdavej

schatham said:


> Even if it's the same as a Roku I will get this for the remote. I hate the tiny remotes on Roku and Apple TV.


Both of those will work with any universal remote, any size you want. How about this one?


----------



## pj1983

mdavej said:


> Both of those will work with any universal remote, any size you want. How about this one?


That's a new and improved remote for units running TE4, right? No need for thumbs!


----------



## TonyD79

cwoody222 said:


> Who said I want to be forced? I just want the option.
> 
> I just find it odd that only Sling offers ZERO locals in my area.


They offer zero here too. I think they are relying on antennas.


----------



## TonyD79

mdavej said:


> Both of those will work with any universal remote, any size you want. How about this one?


Roku will. Apple TV functionality is limited with a universal remote as you have to trick it.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

TonyD79 said:


> Roku will. Apple TV functionality is limited with a universal remote as you have to trick it.


The SofaBaton U1 seems to promise ATV compatibility. I'm thinking of trying a few of these on our various combinations of Fire TV, screens, sound, TiVo Minis, and Blu-Ray players. I too was in love with the TiVo peanut remote once... but TiVo lost me.


----------



## mdavej

TonyD79 said:


> Roku will. Apple TV functionality is limited with a universal remote as you have to trick it.


I've never used an Apple TV, but I'd like for my code library to be complete. What's missing compared to the codes I already have?

Move Cursor Up / Show Application Popup Menu
Move Cursor Left / Rewind / Jump Back by 10 Seconds
Move Cursor Right / Fast Forward / Jump Ahead by 10 Seconds
Move Cursor Down / Show Media Information Popup Menu
OK; Confirm Selection / Play/Pause
Back / Exit; Exit from Submenu / Go to Full-Screen Player Menu (Home)
Play / Pause
Restart System
Television Video Output System (Resolution / High Dynamic Range / Framerate)
Take Snapshot of Screen
Send Diagnostic Logs to Apple


----------



## Balzer

schatham said:


> Even if it's the same as a Roku I will get this for the remote. I hate the tiny remotes on Roku and Apple TV.


Remote size, for comparison Looks to be a little bit bigger than a Roku remote.


----------



## bbrown9

No local channels is a non-starter for me. I can't tune in any locals with an antenna. I need a solution that will give me local channels.
Looks like I still need to use the cable card for a long as Verizon FIOS supports it and then I'll see what's available at that time.
Things are in flux so I'll just wait it out.


----------



## aaronwt

TonyD79 said:


> Roku will. Apple TV functionality is limited with a universal remote as you have to trick it.


Why is it limited? I use HAmony Remotes with my ATV 4K boxes and they work well with it. Of course I don't have access to voice search, but everything else seems to work for me. Plus I don't have to use that god awful Apple TV remote. Which is the absolute worst remote I have ever used. I thought my Shield TV remotes were the worst until I picked up a couple of the ATV 4K boxes. Woof!! They are just terrible.


----------



## spiderpumpkin

bbrown9 said:


> No local channels is a non-starter for me. I can't tune in any locals with an antenna. I need a solution that will give me local channels.
> Looks like I still need to use the cable card for a long as Verizon FIOS supports it and then I'll see what's available at that time.
> Things are in flux so I'll just wait it out.


Try Channels DVR. They have ABC, Fox and NBC TV Everywhere functionality in some markets. You can also add Locast channels if you're in one of those markets. getchannels.com


----------



## spiderpumpkin

Balzer said:


> Remote size, for comparison Looks to be a little bit bigger than a Roku remote.


My immediate question after seeing that smaller remote is if it can be used with a Tivo.


----------



## trip1eX

aaronwt said:


> Why is it limited? I use HAmony Remotes with my ATV 4K boxes and they work well with it. Of course I don't have access to voice search, but everything else seems to work for me. Plus I don't have to use that god awful Apple TV remote. Which is the absolute worst remote I have ever used. I thought my Shield TV remotes were the worst until I picked up a couple of the ATV 4K boxes. Woof!! They are just terrible.


lol I like the ATV remote. Very simple and to the point.


----------



## Dan203

manhole said:


> Agreed. I never thought I would see the day where Sling would be allowed on a TiVo device given TiVo's history of constantly suing Dish over patents.


I had a meeting with a Dish guy many years ago at NAB and he said TiVo was a dirty word around their office. But that was pre-Rovi, so maybe things have changed.


----------



## trip1eX

When some mentioned it's just a rebadged airtv I lost some interest. But still might get one. Depends on how good of a cheap AndroidTV platform it turns out to be.


----------



## exdishguy

OrangeCrush said:


> Hardware made by somebody else + software made by somebody else + smearing TiVo logos on it and making a skin for the UI = Profit?


You're assuming they'll sell enough to make a profit. There are certainly plenty of companies out there that go to Asia, source hardware, slap their brand on it, and sell it here in the US. But as you said, Tivo is very late to the streamer party so I'm extremely doubtful that this new dongle with a "lick and sticked Tivo logo" will be enough to sell enough to make a profit.


----------



## stuart628

Balzer said:


> Remote size, for comparison Looks to be a little bit bigger than a Roku remote.


I have seen those pictures, and first question that comes to mind is if they are really not intending to have this thing connect to tivos...why the number buttons on the remote?


----------



## shwru980r

What is the benefit of buying Tivo's android device over buying Sling's Air Tv device?


----------



## NashGuy

shwru980r said:


> What is the benefit of buying Tivo's android device over buying Sling's Air Tv device?


No one should buy Sling's AirTV Mini unless they plan to stay subscribed to Sling, given that the main home screen UI is customized specifically for that service.

The TiVo Stream 4K, on the other hand, has the standard Android TV home screen, where you see all your apps, but then also offers an additional TiVo-designed UI (which is accessed by pressing the TiVo button on the remote) where TiVo commingles content from across leading apps, giving you a unified watch list and helping you browse for new content from multiple providers. (It's similar to the Apple TV, where you have the main app-based home screen but then also the TV app with Apple's content-driven UI from lots of different services.) Part of this TiVo UI is a live channel grid guide where the free TiVo+ streaming channels live and also where you can find your live Sling channels if you optionally subscribe to that service.


----------



## BillyClyde

This actually makes me think that Caavo had a hand in working with TiVo on this. That is a unified search device and if I recall TiVo was selling them in their store. 

I asked in another thread with no response, but do you envision they’d port this Android TV experience over to the Edge (or Bolts)?


----------



## shwru980r

NashGuy said:


> No one should buy Sling's AirTV Mini unless they plan to stay subscribed to Sling, given that the main home screen UI is customized specifically for that service.
> 
> The TiVo Stream 4K, on the other hand, has the standard Android TV home screen, where you see all your apps, but then also offers an additional TiVo-designed UI (which is accessed by pressing the TiVo button on the remote) where TiVo commingles content from across leading apps, giving you a unified watch list and helping you browse for new content from multiple providers. (It's similar to the Apple TV, where you have the main app-based home screen but then also the TV app with Apple's content-driven UI from lots of different services.) Part of this TiVo UI is a live channel grid guide where the free TiVo+ streaming channels live and also where you can find your live Sling channels if you optionally subscribe to that service.


How does the TiVo UI get updated? Is the TiVo UI an app in the Google Play Store?


----------



## NashGuy

shwru980r said:


> How does the TiVo UI get updated? Is the TiVo UI an app in the Google Play Store?


I'd say that the TiVo UI is actually just a pre-installed app on this device, although I don't know if it will actually be listed in the Google Play Store. I'm sure it will just auto-update on its own as TiVo pushes out new versions. Unless TiVo intends to allow other Android TV devices (e.g. Nvidia Shield TV, Mi Box, AirTV Mini) to install it, there would really be no point in listing it in the Google Play Store.


----------



## NashGuy

BillyClyde said:


> I asked in another thread with no response, but do you envision they'd port this Android TV experience over to the Edge (or Bolts)?


Who knows but my gut says no. It would be a significant amount of work/resources and TiVo has a lot on its plate right now as they're on the verge of yet another merger while also trying to get this streaming device and free ad-supported content (TiVo+) off the ground. Developing an OTA DVR that runs on Android TV shouldn't be that big of a deal but I'm not aware of any CableCARD device in the world that runs on Android TV, so who knows what technical/business hoops TiVo might have to jump through to make that happen.

I think they probably see the TiVo Stream 4K as a whole new business line completely separate from their legacy DVR business.


----------



## TonyD79

mdavej said:


> I've never used an Apple TV, but I'd like for my code library to be complete. What's missing compared to the codes I already have?
> 
> Move Cursor Up / Show Application Popup Menu
> Move Cursor Left / Rewind / Jump Back by 10 Seconds
> Move Cursor Right / Fast Forward / Jump Ahead by 10 Seconds
> Move Cursor Down / Show Media Information Popup Menu
> OK; Confirm Selection / Play/Pause
> Back / Exit; Exit from Submenu / Go to Full-Screen Player Menu (Home)
> Play / Pause
> Restart System
> Television Video Output System (Resolution / High Dynamic Range / Framerate)
> Take Snapshot of Screen
> Send Diagnostic Logs to Apple


Not sure because Apple TV has a context sensitive touchpad. Don't know if it corresponds to the codes you listed.


----------



## TonyD79

trip1eX said:


> lol I like the ATV remote. Very simple and to the point.


And works with NOTHING else. I hate dedicated remotes.


----------



## trip1eX

TonyD79 said:


> And works with NOTHING else. I hate dedicated remotes.


Works with the tv. I got nothing else i need it to work with.


----------



## shwru980r

NashGuy said:


> I'd say that the TiVo UI is actually just a pre-installed app on this device, although I don't know if it will actually be listed in the Google Play Store. I'm sure it will just auto-update on its own as TiVo pushes out new versions. Unless TiVo intends to allow other Android TV devices (e.g. Nvidia Shield TV, Mi Box, AirTV Mini) to install it, there would really be no point in listing it in the Google Play Store.


I assume they will tie the Tivo UI to their own android set top device so it doesn't work on any other android set top device. It's frustrating that they did not integrate their own DVRs into the Tivo UI.


----------



## EWiser

TiVo's unreleased Roku and Apple TV apps are

App's not going to happen don't hold your breath.


----------



## TonyD79

trip1eX said:


> Works with the tv. I got nothing else i need it to work with.


I will refrain from commenting on how unusual you are.


----------



## tenthplanet

foghorn2 said:


> Whats interesting about Sling, is that when I record Fox News Sunday initiated from the Fox News tile (its delayed to the west coast) the recording is from a Dallas TX OTA broadcast feed from the local Fox Affiliate and earlier than the Fox News West coast feed. "Sling" Tv indeed!


Same thing with The Blacklist on NBC it would record from another NBC owned station in the eastern or central zone before it ran in the Pacific time zone. But the channel 4 news at 11pm would record at 11pm. With other services locals record according to your time zone.


----------



## trip1eX

TonyD79 said:


> I will refrain from commenting on how unusual you are.


lol I thought that was average.


----------



## NashGuy

EWiser said:


> TiVo's unreleased Roku and Apple TV apps are
> 
> App's not going to happen don't hold your breath.


Wow. Thanks for the link. This is news. So it sounds like app-based Mini-capabilities will probably eventually come to Android TV and Fire TV but probably not to Roku and Apple TV.


----------



## tenthplanet

Which means it *could* show up on TiVo's new streaming device down the line. Hmmm...


----------



## mntvjunkie

tenthplanet said:


> Which means it could show up on TiVo's new streaming device down the line. Hmmm...


Or not. Since the apps never happened, don't hold your breath OR buy the stick with the idea they will EVER work with your DVR. This is true of any tech you buy, NEVER buy on promise, only buy on existing capability.


----------



## tenthplanet

mntvjunkie said:


> Or not. Since the apps never happened, don't hold your breath OR buy the stick with the idea they will EVER work with your DVR. This is true of any tech you buy, NEVER buy on promise, only buy on existing capability.


Well of course, hence the word "could" in my response.


----------



## trip1eX

mntvjunkie said:


> Or not. Since the apps never happened, don't hold your breath OR buy the stick with the idea they will EVER work with your DVR. This is true of any tech you buy, NEVER buy on promise, only buy on existing capability.


Yep. ...the apps are looking backwards. The future isn't streaming shows from a 6 tuner cable dvr to streaming boxes. It's IPTV in the first place and on-demand. So why put money into something that doesn't have a future.

The 3-tv Tivo system of the future (should they stay in business) will be 3 of these boxes. Even better these boxes will built into the 3 tvs themselves.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi

wmcbrine said:


> Nice image of TiVo+:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't moved to TE4, but I understand it looks a little different there, eh?
> 
> Also, he says:
> 
> But AFAICT, the lack of Netflix integration is Netflix's choice. I'm not sure why they would choose differently for TiVo, and that appears to be merely supposition on his part ("... very likely including Netflix, Hulu, HBO, and Amazon Prime at launch.").
> 
> (Apple TV does find content within Netflix, it just doesn't let you track it in "Up Next", as it does with other services. (Actually, maybe it works now? I just tried an Apple TV search for "House of Cards", and got an "Add to Up Next" button. Or maybe it's just the automatic tracking that doesn't work (i.e. start watching from the Hulu app, for example, and Apple TV already knows about it -- this didn't work with Netflix). Hmm...))


This may have been answered in another post (haven't gone through all pages yet) but Netflix does allow you to add their shows to Up Next **if** those shows are also now available through other sources than Netflix. House of Cards has been available for rent on Xfinity for a couple of years and maybe on some other sources too. If you try to look up their newer, more popular shows like Stranger Things you'll see you cannot add them. I was surprised to see that Apple TV doesn't even have Netflix new Dracula series (dropped on Saturday) indexed yet but TiVo does!!! I tried direct searches for titles and looked at the entries for the show creators and didn't find it that way either.


----------



## Dan203

I kinda like the remote for this thing. If it worked as a Mini replacement too I'd probably buy a few of them. As it is now I might buy one just to play with and see how it works compared to my FireTV


----------



## foghorn2

Tempted to get its older brother the AirTv Mini stick and see how it handles upscaling/deinterlacing/mpeg2 to get a taste of it. But at $79 its a hard sell. Going to grab this Tstick @ 49, maybe 2 as soon as its avail.


----------



## trip1eX

PSU_Sudzi said:


> This may have been answered in another post (haven't gone through all pages yet) but Netflix does allow you to add their shows to Up Next **if** those shows are also now available through other sources than Netflix. House of Cards has been available for rent on Xfinity for a couple of years and maybe on some other sources too. If you try to look up their newer, more popular shows like Stranger Things you'll see you cannot add them. I was surprised to see that Apple TV doesn't even have Netflix new Dracula series (dropped on Saturday) indexed yet but TiVo does!!! I tried direct searches for titles and looked at the entries for the show creators and didn't find it that way either.


yeah when I searched for Irishman and Witcher in the ATV UI search, it couldn't find them. But it did find Narcos and Orange is New Black.


----------



## tenthplanet

Interesting, the remote on the Tivo streamer has volume, channel, and a numeric keyboard, a lot of remotes for streaming devices don't have these.


----------



## EWiser

Channel button is not needed on a streaming device.  Also the limitation on the app for other devices was encoding of files to transmit. That would be done by the DVR. I just don't think the current TiVo owners and staff want to work on Doing this. They have decided that streaming is the future. Which it is linear tv which is what a TiVo was designed for is going away. I had figured they where never going to do this so I bought a mini this past Christmas. Will just live with it for the shows we watch on the TiVo. I already have a bunch of AppleTV's a fantastic streaming device.


----------



## Dan203

EWiser said:


> Channel button is not needed on a streaming device.


It is if your ultimate goal is to also be a DVR streamer.


----------



## schatham

Balzer said:


> Remote size, for comparison Looks to be a little bit bigger than a Roku remote.


Not just size , but volume, TV power and real numbers. At least it looks like it does.


----------



## schatham

BillyClyde said:


> This actually makes me think that Caavo had a hand in working with TiVo on this. That is a unified search device and if I recall TiVo was selling them in their store.
> 
> I asked in another thread with no response, but do you envision they'd port this Android TV experience over to the Edge (or Bolts)?


Or at least allow it to connect to Tivo DVR's as a external drive, showing in the app section.


----------



## schatham

mdavej said:


> Both of those will work with any universal remote, any size you want. How about this one?


To complicated. I like to be able to use the remote without looking at it while laying in bed in the dark watching or just listening to the TV. This is one of the reasons I don't like Hydra, the tiny back button.


----------



## schatham

Dan203 said:


> It is if your ultimate goal is to also be a DVR streamer.


Or they integrated Sling TV into channels with a guide like Tivo's. For the cost it will be fun to try out.


----------



## aaronwt

EWiser said:


> TiVo's unreleased Roku and Apple TV apps are
> 
> App's not going to happen don't hold your breath.





> On the technical side, Malone says TiVo must transcode the video before streaming it to other devices, which causes quality and performance issues that the company hasn't resolved. TiVo has also just been putting more effort into streaming with both the TiVo Stream 4K and the TiVo+ streaming service, leaving the DVR apps farther down the priority list.


WTH? If they can stream it to my android cell phone or android tablets with zero issues then i don't see why there would be any problem streaming to other Android based devices.

And as far as TiVo+, that is something I see me never using.

But since this TiVo stick will only be $50 at launch, I might as well buy one to check it out. And add it to my other 20+ UHD devices.


----------



## trip1eX

I soured on this a bit after someone pointed out it was just an air tv mini rebadge and not Tivo's own design. 

And I knew DIsh pushed Airtv on Sling's website but didn't realize Airtv is owned by Dish.

Also wifi only is a turnoff.


----------



## NashGuy

trip1eX said:


> I soured on this a bit after someone pointed out it was just an air tv mini rebadge and not Tivo's own design.
> 
> And I knew DIsh pushed Airtv on Sling's website but didn't realize Airtv is owned by Dish.
> 
> Also wifi only is a turnoff.


Interestingly, although the AirTV Mini and TiVo Stream 4K have the same internal hardware, the former only lists being 4K capable while the latter boasts 4K, Dolby Vision, and Dolby Atmos. I agree that lack of ethernet is a bummer. Don't think there's a USB port either, which would allow for an ethernet-to-USB adapter. [CORRECTION: This article states that the TiVo Stream 4K has a MicroUSB port used for power and also a USB-C port that could be used for an ethernet adapter or external storage. Very nice.]

BTW, Sling does list MPEG-2 among the codecs that their AirTV Mini supports, so that's a good sign in terms of the potential future ability of the TiVo Stream 4K to receive native OTA TV streams from a TiVo DVR without the need for the DVR to transcode the content over to MPEG-4 as it must do for Android and iOS mobile devices. (That said, I don't know if the hardware in the AirTV Mini/TiVo Stream 4K can de-interlace 1080i.)

I thought I remembered reading somewhere that this hardware design was originally provided by Google as an off-the-shelf option for OEMs that wanted to sell an Android TV device but now can't find where I got that. Maybe I dreamed that up.

At any rate, I don't think there's a ton of creative choices that go into making these $100-or-less Android TV devices. There are a limited number of options available in terms of SoCs/CPUs/GPUs that will work for these use-cases. I notice that the AirTV/TiVo hardware is very, very similar to the Verizon Stream, which does have an ethernet port but uses the same CPU, GPU, RAM and storage. Only the SoC is a slightly different model. Essentially tied scores on Geekbench.


----------



## aaronwt

I don't see a need for Ethernet. I already have a bunch of devices that only have 100BT ethernet ports. I only use wireless AC with them since I can get much higher throughput. 

With their wired connection, if I try to play UHD files with bitrates over 95Mb/s, then it's nothing but a buffering mess. But if I use wireless AC, I can stream with zero issues, UHD files with bitrates of 130Mb/s or higher. Depending on the capabilities of the device. Some top out with bitrates of 130Mb/s and some much higher.


----------



## Dan203

My whole house is wired for GB Ethernet. I'd rather use that then eat up my wifi bandwidth. So if they offer a USB ethernet adapter, or perhaps are just compatible with the one I'm already using for my FireTV, then I'd rather use that.


----------



## trip1eX

aaronwt said:


> I don't see a need for Ethernet. I already have a bunch of devices that only have 100BT ethernet ports. I only use wireless AC with them since I can get much higher throughput.
> 
> With their wired connection, if I try to play UHD files with bitrates over 95Mb/s, then it's nothing but a buffering mess. But if I use wireless AC, I can stream with zero issues, UHD files with bitrates of 130Mb/s or higher. Depending on the capabilities of the device. Some top out with bitrates of 130Mb/s and some much higher.


ethernet ports of the past 5-7 years are gigabit. I'm sure there are exceptions but gigabit been standard for a long time.

also some of us have homes that we wired with cat6 and thus need a reason to have things ethernet. And in general it's just more reliable than wireless.


----------



## trip1eX

Dan203 said:


> My whole house is wired for GB Ethernet. I'd rather use that then eat up my wifi bandwidth. So if they offer a USB ethernet adapter, or perhaps are just compatible with the one I'm already using for my FireTV, then I'd rather use that.


I feel that way too. Why load up wifi especially now that I'm on YTTV when I don't have to.


----------



## foghorn2

Dan203 said:


> My whole house is wired for GB Ethernet. I'd rather use that then eat up my wifi bandwidth. So if they offer a USB ethernet adapter, or perhaps are just compatible with the one I'm already using for my FireTV, then I'd rather use that.


Same here, Arron is going to mess up the space time continuum with all his wireless devices, probably more than 50 streaming stuff everywhere, creating a wormhole in the future that will affect the past and preventing life to form on our planet.

When are we going to get back to taking about satellite radio by the way?


----------



## aaronwt

trip1eX said:


> ethernet ports of the past 5-7 years are gigabit. I'm sure there are exceptions but gigabit been standard for a long time.
> 
> also some of us have homes that we wired with cat6 and thus need a reason to have things ethernet. And in general it's just more reliable than wireless.


I have a bunch of devices from the last few years with only 100Mbps ethernet ports. My Sony x800 UHD BD player. My Philip's 7502 UHD BD player. My 2016 Samsung UHD BD player did too. Both of my Roku Ultras only have 100Mbps Ethernet ports. My Sony UHD TV. My TCL UHD TV. I use wireless with all these devices because I can get much higher throughput than their wired connections.

But I also have a wifi network that can handle my five dozen plus wifi devices. In addition to the five dozen wired devices connected to my GigE network. Soon to be a 5Gbps or 10Gbps network backbone.

My wifi network is setup so every device can get maximum signal strength and maximum speeds. And can also avoid congestion issues.

Sent from my Galaxy S10


----------



## trip1eX

aaronwt said:


> I have a bunch of devices from the last few years with only 100Mbps ethernet ports. My Sony x80] IHD BD player. My Philip's 7502 UHD BD player. My 2016 Samsung UHD BD player did two. Both of my Roku Ultras only have 100Mbps Ethernet ports. My Sony UHD TV. My TCL UHD TV. I use wireless with all these devices because I can get much higher throughput tha their wired connections.
> 
> But I also have a wifi network that can handle my six dozen wifi devices. In addition to the six dozen wired devices connected to my GigE network. Soon to be a 5Gbps or 10Gbps network backbone.
> 
> My wifi network is setup so every device can get maximum signal strength and maximum speeds. And can also avoid congestion issues.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy S10


Yeah if you have a really robust wifi network I can see why you wouldn't see the need for ethernet.  Nevermind if you're sending files around that demand 95 mbps from devices with 100 mbps ports.


----------



## Mikeguy

Just received a TiVo Stream 4K message ad on my TiVo box.

Funny how TiVo can find the time to send me a TiVo Stream 4K message ad for a device that does not yet even exist, but can't find the time to send me a message that the TiVo Guide now/once again has accurate and up-to-date Guide data; that TiVo SkipMode now has more robust support and actually supports most at least prime time shows rather than this being slipshod; that TiVo Suggestions now works on the most modern TiVo user interface after having been broken for almost 2 years (with TiVo having said that it is working to fix it); and/or that show transfers of multiple types to TiVo boxes now work again after having been broken or deprecated by TiVo rather than being fixed. Oh, yeah, I forgot.


----------



## cwoody222

There still no demo video of this thing?

Did they have it actually running in their booth?


----------



## spiderpumpkin

Mikeguy said:


> Just received a TiVo Stream 4K message ad on my TiVo box.
> 
> Funny how TiVo can find the time to send me a TiVo Stream 4K message ad for a device that does not yet even exist, but can't find the time to send me a message that the TiVo Guide now/once again has accurate and up-to-date Guide data; that TiVo SkipMode now has more robust support and actually supports most at least prime time shows rather than this being slipshod; that TiVo Suggestions now works on the most modern TiVo user interface after having been broken for almost 2 years (with TiVo having said that it is working to fix it); and/or that show transfers of multiple types to TiVo boxes now work again after having been broken or deprecated by TiVo rather than being fixed. Oh, yeah, I forgot.


Didn't you hear. Tivo DVR products and user needs are a development distraction.


----------



## Mikeguy

spiderpumpkin said:


> Didn't you hear. Tivo DVR products and user needs are a development distraction.


Perhaps TiVo will find those pesky monthly, annual, and Lifetime subscription fees a distraction as well.


----------



## schatham

cwoody222 said:


> There still no demo video of this thing?
> 
> Did they have it actually running in their booth?


 Without a demo I doubt it even works yet.


----------



## EWiser

They had the Streaming box app's demoing last year. An they where vapor ware. I have been searching YouTube for videos 
This is the only one so far.






Put out by TiVo.


----------



## Mikeguy

EWiser said:


> They had the Streaming box app's demoing last year. An they where vapor ware. I have been searching YouTube for videos
> This is the only one so far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Put out by TiVo.


A_ wonderful_ ad--which says and conveys virtually nothing.


----------



## spiderpumpkin

Mikeguy said:


> A_ wonderful_ ad--which says and conveys virtually nothing.


That ad is bad. Almost looks like they are advertising the remote. The ad should show the interface in use and live guide. The ad would make a good screensaver.


----------



## KevTech

I wonder if this will have the same issue with Dolby Vision and Sony TV's that the Edge has.


----------



## keenanSR

KevTech said:


> I wonder if this will have the same issue with Dolby Vision and Sony TV's that the Edge has.


What issue is that?


----------



## KevTech

keenanSR said:


> What issue is that?





TiVo_Ted said:


> While Edge does support Dolby Vision, we have identified an incompatibility with Sony televisions which only support Dolby Vision "Low Latency". It is not yet clear to me whether this can be fixed with a Sony firmware update, or whether we will need to qualify DV Low Latency on Edge.
> 
> I have checked into this and there is a newer version of Broadcom firmware that will allow us to support Dolby Vision Low Latency with TiVo Edge (Cable or OTA). It apparently came out late in the development cycle for Edge and we had to stick with the prior version of firmware. I will work with the engineering team to see when we can deliver this enhancement. Given that it requires a full display driver update and re-certification of all apps that support DV, it will probably take some time to get it done. I will also try to reach someone at Sony to see if there's a chance of them updating their firmware to support standard DV. There certainly seems to be a lot of vendors besides TiVo who have run into this problem.


----------



## keenanSR

So the Edge needed the "player-led" Dolby Vison profile(Profile 5) and it was never implemented? I would think with this new device it would be added but you never know until it's actually put in service.


----------



## aaronwt

KevTech said:


> I wonder if this will have the same issue with Dolby Vision and Sony TV's that the Edge has.


What issue is that? IS the Edge not capable of sending out the newer version of Dolby Vision? The one where the device sending DV needs to do the heavy lifting instead of the TV? Where it sends 422 at 12 bit instead of RGB 8 bit?


----------



## keenanSR

aaronwt said:


> What issue is that? IS the Edge not capable of sending out the newer version of Dolby Vision? The one where the device sending DV needs to do the heavy lifting instead of the TV? Where it sends 422 at 12 bit instead of RGB 8 bit?


Apparently yes. The Edge needs player-led for Sony displays and I'm guessing from KevTech's comment that it's never gotten it.


----------



## TostitoBandito

It's not a hardware issue, so in theory it can be fixed in an update. However, given that the Bolt was technically capable of DV from a hardware standpoint and it never got it, I'm not optimistic (we got HDR10 after years of waiting). 

This kind of thing (being years behind the competition in feature/tech support) has really soured me on Tivo since I bought my Bolt several years ago. I doubt I'll buy another piece of hardware from them unless they can do something really innovative again (and prove they can and will support it long-term). This coming from someone who owned a series 2 and bought a series 3 the day it was released.


----------



## tiv0 newbie

I am hoping that this new streaming stick will someday connect to our Tivo DVRs and act as a local media server. Is this technically possible? If so, what are the chances of it becoming reality?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

tiv0 newbie said:


> I am hoping that this new streaming stick will someday connect to our Tivo DVRs and act as a local media server. Is this technically possible? If so, what are the chances of it becoming reality?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


200+ posts are too much to scroll thru on Tapatalk, huh? I get it. This is TCF, home of serious Smeeking.

But seriously, at last year's CES TiVo demonstrated client apps, and who knows maybe those can also be server apps, but TiVo has since stopped development. Their focus right now is showing they can be squarely in the streaming space, and they are treating their installed TiVo base as just a distraction. I suspect this strategy was promised as a condition of their recent merger with Xperi.

It could still happen though. During an interview at CES, the VP of consumer products and services let slip that work could maybe possibly restart in the coming year on the Android TV app, which would work on the Stream 4K and could also be ported to Fire TV, but the Apple TV and Roku apps will remain on hold.

That VP was Tivo_Ted, who last October may have been told by TiVo not to post here on TCF, and he may have gotten in trouble for saying even that much at CES, but many here appreciate being offered even that small glimmer of hope and consideration for our longstanding loyal support, persnickety though we may be.


----------



## tiv0 newbie

Pokemon-Dad,
Why do you feel the need to throw out an insult? I have not seen a post in this thread about the new stick acting as a local media server. Have you?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

tiv0 newbie said:


> Pokemon-Dad,
> Why do you feel the need to throw out an insult? I have not seen a post in this thread about the new stick acting as a local media server. Have you?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry, I thought I was being understanding, and patiently summarized everything for you, but maybe I misunderstood your question. Guess I should have added a smiley. OK, let's hit the restart button. The link in this post would be a good place to start: https://www.tivocommunity.com/com... So maybe not a media server, but at minimum a client app. We don't really know, and I don't think TiVo management does yet either.


----------



## shwru980r

Three recent Tivo models, Roamio Plus & Pro and Bolt and Edge, have built in transcoded streaming, but Tivo's new android streaming product will not have connectivity to these existing Tivo DVRs. Contrast this with Amazon where their Fire TV Recast works with all generations of Fire TV streaming media players and Fire TV Edition televisions. Tivo has exercised extremely poor judgement with their new Tivo Android streaming product.


----------



## tiv0 newbie

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Sorry, I thought I was being understanding, and patiently summarized everything for you, but maybe I misunderstood your question. Guess I should have added a smiley. OK, let's hit the restart button. The link in this post would be a good place to start: https://www.tivocommunity.com/com... So maybe not a media server, but at minimum a client app. We don't really know, and I don't think TiVo management does yet either.


Maybe I didn't make my request clear. Is it possible for the the new Tivo streamer to act as a local media server within a local Tivo network? The specific functionality that I am looking for is a usb hard drive attached to the new Tivo streamer containing home videos and then the new streamer acting as a media server to my Tivo Dvrs and minis on the same local network. I am not referring to Tivo apps on other devices like Roku Apple Tv, Fire tv in this scenario that I have an interest in. I have not seen a single post discussing this particular scenario. Have you seen this exact scenario discussed?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

tiv0 newbie said:


> Maybe I didn't make my request clear. Is it possible for the the new Tivo streamer to act as a local media server within a local Tivo network? The specific functionality that I am looking for is a usb hard drive attached to the new Tivo streamer containing home videos and then the new streamer acting as a media server to my Tivo Dvrs and minis on the same local network. I am not referring to Tivo apps on other devices like Roku Apple Tv, Fire tv in this scenario that I have an interest in. I have not seen a single post discussing this particular scenario. Have you seen this exact scenario discussed?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I bet long before any TiVo-branded local media app is available, if ever, you might be able to try putting a third-party app on there and then attempt accessing from your TiVo DVRs.

But any app would have to be Android TV compatible - Plex server is not, for example - and we don't know enough yet about whether TiVo will limit what's officially installable, what can be sideloaded, or whether we can add USB storage to it.

I don't think there's even a USB port on the thing. And it's only Wi-Fi, no wired Ethernet. Take a look at the AirTV version; they're clearly both from the same OEM: https://www.airtv.net/pr...


----------



## wmcbrine

tiv0 newbie said:


> Maybe I didn't make my request clear. Is it possible for the the new Tivo streamer to act as a local media server within a local Tivo network?


It's not any kind of server. You're way off base. It's a streaming _client_. Like a Roku or Fire stick or etc.

Is it _possible_? I mean, yes, in the sense that it's probably hackable such that you could replace its operating system with a semi-generic Linux distro, from which you could run any server you want. Is it something that it's designed to do? No. Is it something that TiVo is going to support? No. Is it something that it would be _good_ at doing (even if hacked)? Also no.


----------



## HerronScott

NashGuy said:


> I thought I remembered reading somewhere that this hardware design was originally provided by Google as an off-the-shelf option for OEMs that wanted to sell an Android TV device but now can't find where I got that.


Like the original TiVo hardware platform with Sony and Philip models? 

Scott


----------



## tiv0 newbie

Wmcbrine and Pokemon-Dad, thank you for the replies.

Pokemon-Dad, one of the reviewers of the Tivo Stream 4k writes that there is a USB port on the new device.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## EWiser

I don’t think the TiVo makes a great media sever. So much decoding of the recording. There is the whole .tivo format then decoding to a streaming format. The current mini struggles to do the task.


----------



## aaronwt

EWiser said:


> I don't think the TiVo makes a great media sever. So much decoding of the recording. There is the whole .tivo format then decoding to a streaming format. The current mini struggles to do the task.


Since when has the mini struggled? Even my first gen mini works well. And my Mini Vox works even better.

Sent from my FireHD 10


----------



## Dan203

aaronwt said:


> Since when has the mini struggled? Even my first gen mini works well. And my Mini Vox works even better.


The original and v2 with RF remote both suck pretty bad at running apps. But for their main purpose of being an extension to your TiVo they work fine.

The Vox isn't bad at running apps, but the app selection is minimal because it uses an old platform.


----------



## EWiser

You see a lot of errors being reported all the time. Lots of posts in networking issues.


----------



## schatham

Why is Tivo sending me a message on my Tivo about this when I can't buy it yet? Just wait until you can get one before sending me the message.


----------



## HerronScott

Dan203 said:


> The original and v2 with RF remote both suck pretty bad at running apps. But for their main purpose of being an extension to your TiVo they work fine.


I haven't had any issues with our 93000 (v2) at least with Amazon Prime and Netflix.

Scott


----------



## aaronwt

EWiser said:


> You see a lot of errors being reported all the time. Lots of posts in networking issues.


All my TiVos and Minis have been rock solid on my network.


----------



## TostitoBandito

tiv0 newbie said:


> Wmcbrine and Pokemon-Dad, thank you for the replies.
> 
> Pokemon-Dad, one of the reviewers of the Tivo Stream 4k writes that there is a USB port on the new device.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The USB port is likely only for power if it can't get power over HDMI.


----------



## Mikeguy

schatham said:


> Why is Tivo sending me a message on my Tivo about this when I can't buy it yet? Just wait until you can get one before sending me the message.


Trying to create marketing buzz . . . . Me, and given TiVo's track record, I'd prefer to see performance proof first. Silly me.


----------



## jaselzer

Guys, I have been a TiVo devotee since the very beginning. Truthfully, I love my TiVos. There’s nothing else like it in the market. I am a cable subscriber. In general, it works very well. It’s far better than the boxes that you will get directly from the cable company themselves. I, also, wish that TiVo had started working within the streaming platform and deeply integrating to the TiVo universe several years ago. But they did not. And that’s too bad. However, clearly they realize their mistake and they’re putting effort in to trying to move forward and be relevant in this new environment. The new 4K streaming stick by TiVo is honestly a very good first step. We should try to give them some love and encourage them, not just criticize them. I think productive criticism is a good thing but simply hating them for being where they are at this point is not productive. I like what they are doing here and this guy Bob Malone did state that they are working very hard at trying to make the streaming stick an extension of the TiVo DVR.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

jaselzer said:


> Guys, I have been a TiVo devotee since the very beginning. Truthfully, I love my TiVos. There's nothing else like it in the market. I am a cable subscriber. In general, it works very well. It's far better than the boxes that you will get directly from the cable company themselves. I, also, wish that TiVo had started working within the streaming platform and deeply integrating to the TiVo universe several years ago. But they did not. And that's too bad. However, clearly they realize their mistake and they're putting effort in to trying to move forward and be relevant in this new environment. The new 4K streaming stick by TiVo is honestly a very good first step. We should try to give them some love and encourage them, not just criticize them. I think productive criticism is a good thing but simply hating them for being where they are at this point is not productive. I like what they are doing here and this guy Bob Malone did state that they are working very hard at trying to make the streaming stick an extension of the TiVo DVR.


Actually it's Ted not Bob, and what he said is that the official policy is we are a distraction. And it's not at all clear they realized their mistakes on their own: this new direction seems intended solely to help assure Xperi, for the sake of the merger, that TiVo is squarely in the streaming space.

It's all very clumsy, incomplete, and based on technology licensed from and manufactured by others. Based on the rest of what Ted said, and the fact that he got in trouble for saying it, maybe we'll see integration with the TiVo platform and maybe we won't. But by not even preannouncing that we'll get the app already demonstrated a year ago, they've made it clear we're not being kept in mind.

Disappointing, especially after product quality and service have already been so run into the ground since the previous sale to Rovi. Both Rovi and Xperi are organized around milking everything possible from patent portfolios, and not about running a profitable product- or service-based business. I fear for the future of TiVo.

Edit: at this point I keep calling Rovi "RiVo"...​


----------



## PSU_Sudzi

This happens in the business world all the time, a company is merged/bought and legacy products are kicked to the curb. Maybe that’s what’s going on now. We will see.


----------



## snerd

Pokemon_Dad said:


> It's all very clumsy, incomplete, and based on technology licensed from and manufactured by others.


So it's just like their other products!


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

snerd said:


> So it's just like their other products!


Worse. And that's saying something given my experiences since the Bolt. Until then my experience with TiVo products, service, and support was generally good, and the only real problem was Comcast. But beginning around the time of the sale to Rovi, from my perspective the company has been falling apart.


----------



## slowbiscuit

jaselzer said:


> I like what they are doing here and this guy Bob Malone did state that they are working very hard at trying to make the streaming stick an extension of the TiVo DVR.


In no way shape or form is this an extension of Tivo DVRs, it's a pivot away from them.


----------



## mdavej

Sad to see another huge miss from Tivo.

They know they need more streaming integration to stay relevant. So rather than adding something like Sling TV to Bolt, they create (buy) their own, far inferior, streaming package, Tivo+.

Then it dawns on them that actually using Sling TV would be better, so they simply deliver it on a totally separate device, not integrated with Bolt/Edge/Roamio at all, no different than what Roku/Fire/Apple TV have offered for years. They must realize that the only people who will buy this thing are a few of their tiny existing customer base simply because of the familiar remote and guide. But at least half of that potential market hates Hydra so will be turned off by the guide. I can't imagine anybody else in the market for a Roku or similar will consider this product at all.

Where are all the features that make Tivo unique - DVR, commercial skip, quick play, etc.?

Either open up the Bolt platform so it can run streaming apps, or deliver a Tivo app that runs on a streaming device. Slapping the Tivo name on a streaming dongle accomplishes nothing.


----------



## foghorn2

PSU_Sudzi said:


> This happens in the business world all the time, a company is merged/bought and legacy products are kicked to the curb. Maybe that's what's going on now. We will see.


Now that I know for a fact consumer DVR is a dead end quicker than I thought, I reverted back to TE3. I do miss the look of 4 (who cares about the look if its full of bugs and Tivo + in the guide), but that live guide is sure easier to use, you were right Suzuki! The transfer option now works even with the Netgear NAS. The Minis are snappier. I disabled all the app stuff and use it like a DVR, thats it. Looking forward to using the Tivo Stick, hopefully thats not a dead end either.

Amazon is going to add Sling to its FireTV guide, so TiVo again is behind. They are getting it from all angles.


----------



## NashGuy

TostitoBandito said:


> The USB port is likely only for power if it can't get power over HDMI.


It has two USB ports: a micro USB for power and a USB-C that could be used for other things (e.g. ethernet adapter, external storage, TV tuner).


----------



## NashGuy

mdavej said:


> They must realize that the only people who will buy this thing are a few of their tiny existing customer base simply because of the familiar remote and guide. But at least half of that potential market hates Hydra so will be turned off by the guide. I can't imagine anybody else in the market for a Roku or similar will consider this product at all.


I have to think that TiVo believes (or at least hopes) that the Stream 4K will appeal to a much bigger, different set of consumers than those who currently used TiVo DVRs. Otherwise, what's the point?

Whether the general public will consider this product comes down to how well it's marketed. It's priced right (especially if they decide to hold it at its introductory $50 point price), has a nice feature set (including Google Assistant), and a solid app platform with Android TV. But all that won't matter if people don't know it exists. So it'll need a lot of advertising, plus decent retail distribution. If their marketing efforts can make folks aware of it and also believe that this device has a competitive advantage -- a superior ability to simplify streaming by pulling together content from leading apps -- then that, along with the cachet of the TiVo brand, could give it a fighting chance. It did get a fair amount of positive press from tech opinion shapers at its CES debut, so that's promising.

That said, the odds are obviously stacked against it given how entrenched the Fire TV, Roku and Apple TV platforms are at this point. I'll be pleasantly surprised if TiVo is still actively selling this product line two years from now...


----------



## foghorn2

VuDu is up for sale, Sling is great for live tv , and tight VuDu integration would be killer.


----------



## Mikeguy

Hey, maybe TiVo will send a free TiVo Stream 4K stick to each of its current TiVO DVR consumers, to create a buzz and show us that we're valued!


----------



## Lurker1

"TiVo's new CEO, Dave Shull, who joined last May, knows the company has to make a bold move, and he wants to kill off its set-top boxes, he told Axios in an interview in Las Vegas. This is the first step on the way to a fully software-based future, he said."


----------



## keenanSR

Lurker1 said:


> "TiVo's new CEO, Dave Shull, who joined last May, knows the company has to make a bold move, and he wants to kill off its set-top boxes, he told Axios in an interview in Las Vegas. This is the first step on the way to a fully software-based future, he said."


That pretty much puts the nails in the coffin for future TiVo hardware. Time to list the Roamio Pro up on eBay.


----------



## exdishguy

Lurker1 said:


> "TiVo's new CEO, Dave Shull, who joined last May, knows the company has to make a bold move, and he wants to kill off its set-top boxes, he told Axios in an interview in Las Vegas. This is the first step on the way to a fully software-based future, he said."


I agree with the Weatherman that software needs to be the core of the business, however, disagree that they should abandon hardware. Roku has done quite well, thank you, by providing hardware, software and licenses.


----------



## keenanSR

exdishguy said:


> I agree with the Weatherman that software needs to be the core of the business, however, disagree that they should abandon hardware. Roku has done quite well, thank you, by providing hardware, software and licenses.


Roku makes its money with advertising, the Roku hardware is just a platform to sell that advertising.


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## tenthplanet

keenanSR said:


> Roku makes its money with advertising, the Roku hardware is just a platform to sell that advertising.


They didn't start that way, but that's where they are now. Amazon goes the same route.


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## Pokemon_Dad

Lurker1 said:


> "TiVo's new CEO, Dave Shull, who joined last May, knows the company has to make a bold move, and he wants to kill off its set-top boxes, he told Axios in an interview in Las Vegas. This is the first step on the way to a fully software-based future, he said."





keenanSR said:


> That pretty much puts the nails in the coffin for future TiVo hardware. Time to list the Roamio Pro up on eBay.


The Roamio Pro here is still running reliably, on TE3 of course. But I've already got a Channels DVR system running in parallel, in anticipation of there being no good replacement DVR available from TiVo when the Roamio goes. Now it appears there may be no replacement DVR available from TiVo at all.


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## Mikeguy

Lurker1 said:


> "TiVo's new CEO, Dave Shull, who joined last May, knows the company has to make a bold move, and he wants to kill off its set-top boxes, he told Axios in an interview in Las Vegas. This is the first step on the way to a fully software-based future, he said."





keenanSR said:


> That pretty much puts the nails in the coffin for future TiVo hardware. Time to list the Roamio Pro up on eBay.


Shull no longer is TiVo's "new CEO," and is on his way out with the Xperi acquisition of TiVo, having been shunted to the side as a "special advisor." Seemingly, his only "positive achievement" (amongst his multiple negative achievements) since coming to TiVo was to get it bought by Xperi, and even that acquisition was fortuitous, Shull having aimed to split TiVo into two and sell its constituent parts. Hopefully, his Xperi masters see his so-called talents and plans for what they are.


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## trip1eX

Mikeguy said:


> Shull no longer is TiVo's "new CEO," and is on his way out with the Xperi acquisition of TiVo, having been shunted to the side as a "special advisor." Seemingly, his only "positive achievement" (amongst his multiple negative achievements) since coming to TiVo was to get it bought by Xperi, and even that acquisition was fortuitous, Shull having aimed to split TiVo into two and sell its constituent parts. Hopefully, his Xperi masters see his so-called talents and plans for what they are.


Xperi will probably sell off the product business. because they don't have any products. I thought i read somewhere that Shull's previous job was guiding a different company to get bought out. But I could be mixing up my companies.


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## trip1eX

NashGuy said:


> I have to think that TiVo believes (or at least hopes) that the Stream 4K will appeal to a much bigger, different set of consumers than those who currently used TiVo DVRs. Otherwise, what's the point?
> 
> Whether the general public will consider this product comes down to how well it's marketed. It's priced right (especially if they decide to hold it at its introductory $50 point price), has a nice feature set (including Google Assistant), and a solid app platform with Android TV. But all that won't matter if people don't know it exists. So it'll need a lot of advertising, plus decent retail distribution. If their marketing efforts can make folks aware of it and also believe that this device has a competitive advantage -- a superior ability to simplify streaming by pulling together content from leading apps -- then that, along with the cachet of the TiVo brand, could give it a fighting chance. It did get a fair amount of positive press from tech opinion shapers at its CES debut, so that's promising.
> 
> That said, the odds are obviously stacked against it given how entrenched the Fire TV, Roku and Apple TV platforms are at this point. I'll be pleasantly surprised if TiVo is still actively selling this product line two years from now...


And/or they don't care too much about its retail prospects because their main business, like now, will be to sell these things to smaller MSOs.


----------



## Mikeguy

trip1eX said:


> Xperi will probably sell off the product business. because they don't have any products. I thought i read somewhere that Shull's previous job was guiding a different company to get bought out. But I could be mixing up my companies.


I keep on hoping that someone, somewhere, at some time, sees the value in valuing and selling excellence (and the potential to achieve it).

Yes, I know.


----------



## keenanSR

Pokemon_Dad said:


> The Roamio Pro here is still running reliably, on TE3 of course. But I've already got a Channels DVR system running in parallel, in anticipation of there being no good replacement DVR available from TiVo when the Roamio goes. Now it appears there may be no replacement DVR available from TiVo at all.


I've been using Channels for several years on some Apple TV4K's, the only reason I still have the Roamio is I have a housemate who won't let me get rid of it, says she can't use anything but the TiVo UI. It's going through, someday very soon in fact.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

keenanSR said:


> I've been using Channels for several years on some Apple TV4K's, the only reason I still have the Roamio is I have a housemate who won't let me get rid of it, says she can't use anything but the TiVo UI. It's going through, someday very soon in fact.


Pretty soon we'll have to change the name here from TCF to DCF: DVR Community Forum.


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## just4tivo

Mikeguy said:


> I keep on hoping that someone, somewhere, at some time, sees the value in valuing and selling excellence (and the potential to achieve it).


Not in today's society and economy... not any more... and probably never again.


----------



## trip1eX

Mikeguy said:


> I keep on hoping that someone, somewhere, at some time, sees the value in valuing and selling excellence (and the potential to achieve it).
> 
> Yes, I know.


Xperia has a good chance to be excellent at licensing IP and protecting patents.

And Apple is a successful company built on the weird notion of making excellent products that delight their customers.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad




----------



## NashGuy

trip1eX said:


> And/or they don't care too much about its retail prospects because their main business, like now, will be to sell these things to smaller MSOs.


Yeah, it's been reported that that's part of the plan for this device, to sell them to MSOs. But their moves so far -- CES unveiling, their webpage, etc. --look, to me, more aimed at reaching the general retail-buying public as opposed to B2B buyers. I suppose their marketing efforts in one arena boost the other.

And as someone on here pointed out, perhaps part of the plan in announcing this product is window-dressing for upcoming mergers and spin-offs: "Look, we've got a plan to compete in streaming now!"


----------



## NashGuy

Lurker1 said:


> "TiVo's new CEO, Dave Shull, who joined last May, knows the company has to make a bold move, and he wants to kill off its set-top boxes, he told Axios in an interview in Las Vegas. This is the first step on the way to a fully software-based future, he said."


For the CEO to say that he wants to "kill off" their set-top boxes (i.e. DVRs) is pretty drastic language. Makes you wonder why they even bothered to roll out the new Edge line of DVRs recently.


----------



## Mikeguy

NashGuy said:


> For the CEO to say that he wants to "kill off" their set-top boxes (i.e. DVRs) is pretty drastic language. Makes you wonder why they even bothered to roll out the new Edge line of DVRs recently.


He's a dumb putz.


----------



## wmcbrine

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Pretty soon we'll have to change the name here from TCF to DCF: DVR Community Forum.


How about TRF: TiVo Refugees Forum


----------



## just4tivo

wmcbrine said:


> How about TRF: TiVo Refugees Forum


I vote for rememberTiVo.com


----------



## omelet1978

I’m a little confused about Tivo Stream and some of the discussion on here about it being a skin over Android TV (which could be wrong).

I was just wondering if that meant that Disney+ and Spotify would work on this?


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

omelet1978 said:


> I'm a little confused about Tivo Stream and some of the discussion on here about it being a skin over Android TV (which could be wrong).
> 
> I was just wondering if that meant that Disney+ and Spotify would work on this?


It is Android TV and it is supposed to support any Android TV app, though the interface will probably keep pushing TiVo+ and Sling at you. The product page shows the logos for several streaming services and promises "over 5,000 apps": TiVo Stream 4K - Coming soon


----------



## spiderpumpkin

NashGuy said:


> For the CEO to say that he wants to "kill off" their set-top boxes (i.e. DVRs) is pretty drastic language. Makes you wonder why they even bothered to roll out the new Edge line of DVRs recently.


They should have designed the Edge DVR to run Android TV. They could have rolled that out and then announced the Tivo Android TV sticks and how it integrates like a Mini with the Android Tivo Edge.

Instead they just set up everything to fail. I would have upgraded to a Tivo Edge running Android TV and bought a couple Tivo Stream Android TV devices to go with it. I would have even paid monthly fees for it all.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

NashGuy said:


> For the CEO to say that he wants to "kill off" their set-top boxes (i.e. DVRs) is pretty drastic language. Makes you wonder why they even bothered to roll out the new Edge line of DVRs recently.


I would want to see the ACTUAL quote. It's probably not that dramatic, and more in line with what we already know about them getting out of hardware.


----------



## EWiser

NashGuy said:


> For the CEO to say that he wants to "kill off" their set-top boxes (i.e. DVRs) is pretty drastic language. Makes you wonder why they even bothered to roll out the new Edge line of DVRs recently.


Because the Edge was already to release. Might as well dump it on the market and get some sales. Before they change direction again.


----------



## spiderpumpkin

BigJimOutlaw said:


> I would want to see the ACTUAL quote. It's probably not that dramatic, and more in line with what we already know about them getting out of hardware.


I've searched for the interview article but I can't find it. Someone mentioned Axios but not seeing it there. Does anyone have an actual link to where that Tivo CEO says they want to get out of the DVR business?


----------



## keenanSR

spiderpumpkin said:


> I've searched for the interview article but I can't find it. Someone mentioned Axios but not seeing it there. Does anyone have an actual link to where that Tivo CEO says they want to get out of the DVR business?


TiVo unveils its (tiny) new video streaming device at CES

You could also email the author and see if she can provide anything beyond the posted quote.

Kia Kokalitcheva on Axios


----------



## Joe3

Mikeguy said:


> He's a dumb putz.


Putz CEO was installed like the other dumb CEO putzes by the same TiVo Board. It's the Board that has to be investigated for conflicts of interest. Bet you dollars to donuts, one or two TiVo Board members are in a conflict relationship (maybe with Hollywood) and would personally benefit from TiVo's Demise. The constant string of putzes is too much to be a _coincidence and the spotlight at this point must be placed on the Board._


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## cwoody222

Exactly, I looked for that quote and can’t find it. I think the author is exaggerating for drama’s sake.


----------



## Phil T

spiderpumpkin said:


> They should have designed the Edge DVR to run Android TV. They could have rolled that out and then announced the Tivo Android TV sticks and how it integrates like a Mini with the Android Tivo Edge.
> 
> Instead they just set up everything to fail. I would have upgraded to a Tivo Edge running Android TV and bought a couple Tivo Stream Android TV devices to go with it. I would have even paid monthly fees for it all.


I have a Sony TV that runs on Android TV and I am not impressed. I have seen multiple updates but it is terrible to use for OTA TV. The guide is hard to use with multiple button presses to get to live TV. Many times it locks up/freezes or reboots which takes several minutes to get back to a picture. The TiVO interface, even with its forced ads and flaws, is much nicer.


----------



## spiderpumpkin

Phil T said:


> I have a Sony TV that runs on Android TV and I am not impressed. I have seen multiple updates but it is terrible to use for OTA TV. The guide is hard to use with multiple button presses to get to live TV. Many times it locks up/freezes or reboots which takes several minutes to get back to a picture. The TiVO interface, even with its forced ads and flaws, is much nicer.


I only mentioned Android TV as the operating system because that's what they chose to go with the new stick, and they also have been using Android for some set top boxes they release through cable companies. Also, if Tivo used their interface but built on Android TV OS then we'd have access to all the Android Apps.


----------



## OrangeCrush

wmcbrine said:


> It's not any kind of server. You're way off base. It's a streaming _client_. Like a Roku or Fire stick or etc.
> 
> Is it _possible_? I mean, yes, in the sense that it's probably hackable such that you could replace its operating system with a semi-generic Linux distro, from which you could run any server you want. Is it something that it's designed to do? No. Is it something that TiVo is going to support? No. Is it something that it would be _good_ at doing (even if hacked)? Also no.


There's actually a decent chance it could work well as a media server. The Nvidia Shield is a great little Plex and/or Channels DVR server, no hacking required. Just add a USB hard drive and install the relevant apps from the built in app store. I don't really expect TiVo to build their own Android-based DVR server, but it's certainly doable. Or one of the third-party DVR platforms might decide to support TiVo's device if it's powerful enough.



jaselzer said:


> The new 4K streaming stick by TiVo is honestly a very good first step. We should try to give them some love and encourage them, not just criticize them. I think productive criticism is a good thing but simply hating them for being where they are at this point is not productive. I like what they are doing here and this guy Bob Malone did state that they are working very hard at trying to make the streaming stick an extension of the TiVo DVR.


I'm cautiously optimistic that they've got a good product here. I'd be very interested in what is essentially the guts of a Fire TV 4K running Android TV proper instead of Amazon's re-spun version in this price range. I'd be willing to pay a premium to not have Amazon's . . . Amazon-ness . . . smeared over everything on my TV.

But I question whether TiVo has the resources and commitment to long-term support for this thing. I'm also wary of corner-cutting since they have a track record of releasing underpowered hardware. Hence the "cautiously" part.

It has my attention and I'll be interested to see real-world reviews when they actually start shipping. They're saying April, so the first test will be if they even make that date and how finished the software is at that point. Deadlines aren't exactly TiVo's strong suit either.



Phil T said:


> I have a Sony TV that runs on Android TV and I am not impressed. I have seen multiple updates but it is terrible to use for OTA TV. The guide is hard to use with multiple button presses to get to live TV. Many times it locks up/freezes or reboots which takes several minutes to get back to a picture. The TiVO interface, even with its forced ads and flaws, is much nicer.


Please don't judge Android TV by Sony's smart TVs. They are notoriously bad and really skimp on the processor and memory needed to run well. They also meddle with the software, so it's not going to be exactly like the "vanilla" version of Android TV that Google makes. Nvidia's Shield TV streamers are the gold standard for Android TV right now.


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## shwru980r

I think there will be a significant amount of returns of this item when customers find out that there is no connectivity with an actual Tivo DVR.


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## foghorn2

shwru980r said:


> I think there will be a significant amount of returns of this item when customers find out that there is no connectivity with an actual Tivo DVR.


Good, i'll pick up some open boxes from AZ warehouse for cheaper than $50.

RETURN THEM, just dont leave Cheese-Toes or Doritos powder on the keys


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## NashGuy

TiVo Seeks 'Win' in the Streaming Wars With New OTT Device | Light Reading

_"For better or for worse, we are going in one direction here, and we're all-in on the TiVo Stream product," Shull said. "My first [priority] is I've got to get us into the streaming wars... I've got to make a win in the streaming wars."_​


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## Pokemon_Dad

NashGuy said:


> TiVo Seeks 'Win' in the Streaming Wars With New OTT Device | Light Reading
> 
> _"For better or for worse, we are going in one direction here, and we're all-in on the TiVo Stream product," Shull said. "My first [priority] is I've got to get us into the streaming wars... I've got to make a win in the streaming wars."_​


These paragraphs jumped out at me too:

_But as TiVo prepares to merge with Xperi, TiVo's future is also centered on unshackling its software and user experience from set-top boxes.

"We need to get off the hardware," Shull said. And by "hardware," Shull is really talking about set-top boxes with on-board DVRs. One key aim of the Xperi deal is to help TiVo form a tighter bond with another type of hardware -- connected TVs.

Among other benefits Shull sees with the Xperi merger is the potential for TiVo's technology to move more aggressively into the connected automobile market... _​


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## jaselzer

Watch Out Roku, TiVo is Bringing Some Serious Competition


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## Pokemon_Dad

jaselzer said:


> Watch Out Roku, TiVo is Bringing Some Serious Competition


This is sad. He thinks the Stream 4K includes DVR features that will bring along the existing customer base, but the only DVR in there now is the Sling TV cloud DVR. He thinks that base includes 22 million household customers, but most got their TiVos through cable companies.

TiVo doesn't have much time to actually start delivering on these opportunities before the market figures this out.


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## jaselzer

Pokemon_Dad said:


> This is sad. He thinks the Stream 4K includes DVR features that will bring along the existing customer base, but the only DVR in there now is the Sling TV cloud DVR. He thinks that base includes 22 million household customers, but most got their TiVos through cable companies.
> 
> TiVo doesn't have much time to actually start delivering on these opportunities before the market figures this out.


This is truly not meant as a flame, but I noticed that nearly all your posts are extremely negative on TiVo. Are you honestly this down on TiVo? There must be something about TiVo you appreciate; otherwise, why be here?I would be very interested to read what your feelings are about TiVo. Personally, I hope Tivo does well. I truly do like the product and would like to see them be a very competitive factor in the market.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Narkul

Pre-roll ads, the Tivo+ UI virus, death of thumbs up/down recommendations, TiVo_Ted dissing this community then hiding in the bushes, pushing a re-badged piece of hardware while practically abandoning a newly released $350 bug riddled hardware product. It's difficult for me to find anything positive about Tivo atm. I'm on the verge of rooting for their death.


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## Mikeguy

jaselzer said:


> Watch Out Roku, TiVo is Bringing Some Serious Competition


Interesting article--it would be nice, if much of it were to come true. In my mind, though, to start, can TiVo overcome the many years of head-start that Roku, Amazon, and Apple have, and capture any real part of the market? The principal advantage that TiVo seems to have is the concept of an integrated guide--really, continuing with the OnePass idea. But the question in my mind is, will TiVo really invest in this? Or is it simply going to buy and re-badge what other companies are doing (altho query if that could lead to some success).

Some humor in the article:


> Over the summer, TIVO started rolling out short ads before DVR recorded content to some customers. *Despite some complaints, the test was successful *and the firm plans on adding ads as part of its business plan going forward.


Perhaps the article's author needs to cross-over and read the "Medical Marijuana" thread here, where posters have been warning of the possible marijuana overdose effects from marijuana edibles. It would be interesting to know in what alternate reality the author finds the pre-roll as "successful." (Well, yes, I guess: pre-roll physically can be done (albeit, it hasn't been done well, and has had multiple tech. glitches, some of them major and not simply cosmetic) . . . .)


> All of this is just like Roku in its early stages. TiVo should be able to pivot its customers to the new device thanks to its better interface, *live TV options and integrated DVR capabilities*.


Aren't these the current DVR features that Shull specifically had stated would be great to have but that aren't there now, but would be great to look at in the future? Based on its recent track records, TiVo doesn't seem to do so well with "in the future."*

* I apologize if skepticism comes through in this post--I admit to suffering from a degree of TiVo disappointment, caused by a level of lack of TiVo follow-through and performance on prior announcements; the level of current TiVo performance (have you seen the TiVo Guide recently? and then there's the tick-list of unresolved faults in the recent TiVo Edge platform); and a distrust of things Shull-related from the consumer side, based on his prior and current statements and actions--basically, to him, consumers do not seem to count and exist unless he wants something from them, and then only until he gets what he wants.


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## Triride44

cwoody222 said:


> Any reason why SlingTV has poor local channels coverage in my market (and I assume other markets)?
> 
> I've checked out the local offerings of other life streamers and they mostly have all locals and Sling has zero here, which seems odd.


Sling holds the price down by not offering local Channels. They recommend a OTA antenna, even offer several devices to integrate locals into the EPG (AirTV etc). The locals all get paid by OTT for each customers. Why pay a middle man for free OTA channels ?


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## Pacomartin

I am a little confused. Is there zero chance that this device will have the capability of replacing the Mini, or is it just a matter of waiting?


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## blacknoi

Pacomartin said:


> I am a little confused. Is there zero chance that this device will have the capability of replacing the Mini, or is it just a matter of waiting?


The quotes suggest (not commit to) by Tivo that its _possible _and a roadmap item for the future. But_ its not a guarantee_ it'll happen (whether that is a technical impossibility that they are still working through, or a strategic shift in their portfolio priorities, is anyone's guess).


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## EWiser

Pacomartin said:


> I am a little confused. Is there zero chance that this device will have the capability of replacing the Mini, or is it just a matter of waiting?


I wouldn't hold your breath on it. They said last year they where going to have app's. Who knows what they will do next CES.


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## Mikeguy

EWiser said:


> I wouldn't hold your breath on it. They said last year they where going to have app's. Who knows what they will do next CES.


Hopefully, have an address by a new TiVo head.


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## Joe3

Pacomartin said:


> I am a little confused. Is there zero chance that this device will have the capability of replacing the Mini, or is it just a matter of waiting?


The article, Watch Out Roku, TiVo is Bringing Some Serious Competition seems to contradict what the current CEO has been saying.

Hence, confusion. Since the CEO is on the way out, I personally am hoping that the new CEO they replace him with would see the long term benefits of the devices' accessibility to our TiVo and to the increasing streaming service available. Giving the TiVo consumers choices seems to be crime to this current Rovi/TiVo management crowd when you listen to what they are quoted as saying.


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## Pokemon_Dad

jaselzer said:


> This is truly not meant as a flame, but I noticed that nearly all your posts are extremely negative on TiVo. Are you honestly this down on TiVo? There must be something about TiVo you appreciate; otherwise, why be here?I would be very interested to read what your feelings are about TiVo. Personally, I hope Tivo does well. I truly do like the product and would like to see them be a very competitive factor in the market.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've been here 12 years and have only gotten negative about the company very recently. That's because TiVo, or more precisely Rovi and Xperia, got negative on us first. I'm still helping people keep their TiVo boxes running when I can, but I'm also helping explore alternatives like Channels DVR in case we all need to jump ship.


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## foghorn2

Pacomartin said:


> I am a little confused. Is there zero chance that this device will have the capability of replacing the Mini, or is it just a matter of waiting?


If they enable the hardware MPEG2 decoding and its powerful to handle interlaced video, with robust wi-fi Im sure it would. Or transcoding would have to be done in the DVR or with the TiVo stream (original transcoder). This is what I think they mention as obstacles in making this happen. Im not an expert on video (other than knowing what looks good to my eyes) so hopefully someone who is like Dan, the mod here, can chime in on this.


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## jaselzer

Pokemon_Dad said:


> I've been here 12 years and have only gotten negative about the company very recently. That's because TiVo, or more precisely Rovi and Xperia, got negative on us first. I'm still helping people keep their TiVo boxes running when I can, but I'm also helping explore alternatives like Channels DVR in case we all need to jump ship.


Thank you for your response. Channels DVR only works OTA, correct?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NashGuy

jaselzer said:


> Thank you for your response. Channels DVR only works OTA, correct?


No, Channels will work with both OTA and CableCARD tuners from HDHomeRun. And they have a new feature that will let you DVR live streams of cable channels from the internet if your cable provider gives you "TV everywhere" access to a given channel.


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## PSU_Sudzi

NashGuy said:


> No, Channels will work with both OTA and CableCARD tuners from HDHomeRun. And they have a new feature that will let you DVR live streams of cable channels from the internet if your cable provider gives you "TV everywhere" access to a given channel.


But premiums don't work with Channels (unless maybe they do with a cable card).


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## cwoody222

I recently looked at Channels/HD Home Run out of curiosity.

Does it require a box and antenna at your router, and a HD and software at a computer (server) and a STB (Roku, FireTV) on each TV?

That’s way more setup than a typical consumer is capable of.


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## jaselzer

Hmm, interesting. I will check those components out. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pokemon_Dad

jaselzer said:


> Thank you for your response. Channels DVR only works OTA, correct?





NashGuy said:


> No, Channels will work with both OTA and CableCARD tuners from HDHomeRun. And they have a new feature that will let you DVR live streams of cable channels from the internet if your cable provider gives you "TV everywhere" access to a given channel.


I've been using Channels DVR to record OTA and cable, with an HD HomeRun Connect Quatro for OTA and also with TVE for non-premium cable. I've recently purchased an HDHR Prime off eBay so will be moving from TVE to CableCARD.

I have recently freed up a CableCARD after decommissioning a TiVo, and noticed more good-condition 3-tuner Primes showing up on eBay now that Windows 7 WMC has reached end of life, so decided not to wait for the long-delayed HDHR Prime 6



PSU_Sudzi said:


> But premiums don't work with Channels (unless maybe they do with a cable card).


Channels can't receive premiums like HBO from TVE or from the current HDHR Prime (and maybe not from the Prime 6 either if that is produced) but, in my area at least, the rest of the cable channels are OK.


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## Pokemon_Dad

cwoody222 said:


> I recently looked at Channels/HD Home Run out of curiosity.
> 
> Does it require a box and antenna at your router, and a HD and software at a computer (server) and a STB (Roku, FireTV) on each TV?
> 
> That's way more setup than a typical consumer is capable of.


It's far easier than, say, Kodi or MythTV, but it's not exactly a mainstream consumer product either. You install Channels DVR on a PC, Mac, NAS, Shield, RasPi, etc.

It will find any HD HomeRun boxes on your local network. Ethernet recommended over Wi-Fi. It can also automatically access many TV Everywhere channels using your cable login, as well as quite a few OTT live TV services like YouTube TV.

You manage it via a web browser, and watch in-home or remotely via the web or apps on Fire TV, Apple TV, Android, or iOS. They've dropped their Roku app for at least a while due to technical and business limitations.

My current setup:
• Apps: Fire TV, Android, web
• OTA: HD HomeRun Connect Quatro, CM-4221HD
• Cable: TVE now, HD HomeRun Prime soon; Xfinity
• Server: Synology DS718+, 3TB (two mirrored 4TB drives), battery backup


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## BillyClyde

PSU_Sudzi said:


> But premiums don't work with Channels (unless maybe they do with a cable card).





Pokemon_Dad said:


> .......Channels can't receive premiums like HBO from TVE or from the current HDHR Prime (and maybe not from the Prime 6 either if that is produced) but, in my area at least, the rest of the cable channels are OK.


But you can easily use the Channels DVR Streaming Client's (FireTV, AppleTV, Shield, etc.) Premium Channel apps from the likes of HBO, Showtime, Starz etc. to watch your live tv and on demand content from those channels.


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## Pokemon_Dad

BillyClyde said:


> But you can easily use the Streaming Client's (FireTV, AppleTV, Shield, etc.) Premium Channel apps from the likes of HBO, Showtime, Starz etc. to watch your live tv and on demand content from those channels.


Correct but via those walled garden apps you can't record or skip commercials. A&E and their sister channels are another group that can't be DVRed via TVE.


----------



## keenanSR

You're going to get better quality anyway from the premium channel streaming apps than you will from those crappy low-res, low-bitrate cable/sat services.


----------



## BillyClyde

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Correct but via those walled garden apps you can't record or skip commercials. A&E and their sister channels are another group that can't be DVRed via TVE.


For channels like HBO and Showtime that's moot because there are no commercials and all their shows are on demand in the app with no commercials to have to skip. Why wait for your movie or show to be played on the live channel when you can go into the app and play it right away on your terms. Kind of ironic and the reason why TiVo came to be in the first place, and now seems to be moving away from.

For A&E and the other channels not available via TVE, I use an HDHR Prime with a cablecard, as you're about to partake in yourself.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

BillyClyde said:


> For channels like HBO and Showtime that's moot because there are no commercials and all their shows are on demand in the app with no commercials to have to skip. Why wait for your movie or show to be played on the live channel when you can go into the app and play it right away on your terms. Kind of ironic and the reason why TiVo came to be in the first place, and now seems to be moving away from.
> 
> For A&E and the other channels not available via TVE, I use an HDHR Prime with a cablecard, as you're about to partake in yourself.


I agree with what you're saying, it's just that you're changing the subject from live TV DVRs to on-demand streaming. Kinda like TiVo is doing right now.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

keenanSR said:


> You're going to get better quality anyway from the premium channel streaming apps than you will from those crappy low-res, low-bitrate cable/sat services.


Agreed, those look great, though as we were saying above if those apps are for cable channels then you get slammed with unskippable commercials.

For HD picture and sound quality I rank streaming first, followed by OTA, then cable, then TVE. TVE streams often look washed-out, and the sound is stereo only.


----------



## BillyClyde

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Agreed, those look great, though as we were saying above if those apps are for cable channels then you get slammed with unskippable commercials.........


While true, he wasn't referring to cable channel apps, he was referring to Premium Channel apps.......



keenanSR said:


> You're going to get better quality anyway from the *premium channel streaming apps* than you will from those crappy low-res, low-bitrate cable/sat services.


----------



## jaselzer

TiVo dongle leads to Sony releasing an OEM Sony 8K Android based with TiVo built in. This is where TiVo hopes to be imho. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dstoffa

cwoody222 said:


> I recently looked at Channels/HD Home Run out of curiosity.
> 
> Does it require a box and antenna at your router, and a HD and software at a computer (server) and a STB (Roku, FireTV) on each TV?
> 
> That's way more setup than a typical consumer is capable of.


My HD Home Run is an HD Home Run Extend. It is just a tuner. (The "Extend" has a built in h.264 transcoder to reduce the burden on streaming its content.) My unit does not support cable card, but does support clearQAM.

Channels is the app you can watch what the tuner tunes.

The HD Home Run is a device on your LAN. You can locate it anywhere in your house, but it needs to connect to your LAN. It needs a video source (either an antenna or Cable (CableCard Required for anything that is encrypted).

I plan to build a Plex Media Server, which can take control of the HD Home Run. I'd be able to watch content on the PMS outside my home.


----------



## Dan203

I like this as a streaming box just for the remote alone. If it can support Ethernet via the USB port and has some Alexa integration (like the Mini does now) then I'll probably get one. My biggest issues with the Apple TV were the remote sucked and it had zero Alexa integration, so I swapped to a fireTV stick. That has great Alexa integration but the remote is only so so. It's better than the Apple TV, but the button placement is a bit cramped and weirdly laid out.


----------



## foghorn2

Do you think the remote pictured is really whats gonna be shipped? Why the num keys unless its going to control a legacy tivo dvr?


----------



## thyname

Re: Sling TV on this --- does it mean that Sling Tv interface is based on TiVo and will have TiVo Guide and UX?


----------



## cwoody222

Dan203 said:


> I like this as a streaming box just for the remote alone. If it can support Ethernet via the USB port and has some Alexa integration (like the Mini does now) then I'll probably get one. My biggest issues with the Apple TV were the remote sucked and it had zero Alexa integration, so I swapped to a fireTV stick. That has great Alexa integration but the remote is only so so. It's better than the Apple TV, but the button placement is a bit cramped and weirdly laid out.


Does any AndroidTV STB have Alexa support?


----------



## trip1eX

foghorn2 said:


> Do you think the remote pictured is really whats gonna be shipped? Why the num keys unless its going to control a legacy tivo dvr?


good question. I was wondering about the number keys too. Why do they need them?

Then I figured they are for Sling. But ...Sling doesn't number their channels though right? Maybe they could though.

Or maybe the number keys could let users type letters quicker using that old cellphone texting method. That would be handier for search.

But mostly I don't (see) the point of them. Even on Tivo I barely used my number keys.


----------



## foghorn2

Sling does not use channel numbers, not even for Locals, the only time you see the numbers is when you set up the OTA channels after a scan. For locals you get a logo or the station call letters.


----------



## NashGuy

trip1eX said:


> good question. I was wondering about the number keys too. Why do they need them?
> 
> Then I figured they are for Sling. But ...Sling doesn't number their channels though right? Maybe they could though.


Remember that Sling will be presented through the TiVo UI on this device (although I'm sure you can also use the actual Sling app if you prefer). I would guess that TiVo will assign channel numbers to the Sling channels as well as their own TiVo+ channels in the grid guide.

If that's not the case, then the only reason I can think why the Stream 4K remote has 0-9 buttons is because maybe they're just recycling the same remote that they already use with their Android TV IPTV boxes as part of their "Next Gen Platform" for MSOs.


----------



## NashGuy

thyname said:


> Re: Sling TV on this --- does it mean that Sling Tv interface is based on TiVo and will have TiVo Guide and UX?


Yes. Kinda like how you can access PS Vue and Philo through the native Fire TV UI on Amazon's devices.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

Ted Malone just surfaced with some encouraging news:



TiVo_Ted said:


> Thanks Joe. I definitely see people dropping by to say goodbye. While it may seem like TiVo is giving up on DVR, it's not really true. We are still looking for ways to innovate on DVR, especially in areas that also encompass the streaming world. Our cable customers are also pushing for us to innovate in ways that will help them retain our mutual subscribers. I hope to have more to announce in this area over the coming months.
> 
> Clearly, our big innovation area will be our market expansion into the streamer category. We showed TiVo Stream 4K to the industry and press at CES, and will be showing more to our customers between now and April when we are scheduled to launch. What I think people are missing so far is how different Stream will be from what's on the market today. It's being designed as a complete TV experience, with free TV (i.e. ad sponsored) and pay TV from Sling and all of the app integration we have on DVR plus a few new ones. We partially did this on DVR with OnePass, unified search and TiVo+, but with Stream the integration will be much deeper and more seamless.


----------



## trip1eX

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Ted Malone just surfaced with some encouraging news:


Yeah he's promising deeper and more seamless integration between apps, freetv and paytv from Sling on the 4k streamer. Sounds like the product could be kind of cool and differentiate itself from that stand point.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

trip1eX said:


> Yeah he's promising deeper and more seamless integration between apps, freetv and paytv from Sling on the 4k streamer. Sounds like the product could be kind of cool and differentiate itself from that stand point.


For me the most important takeaway is from this sentence: "Our cable customers are also pushing for us to innovate in ways that will help them retain our mutual subscribers. I hope to have more to announce in this area over the coming months."

It is the disconnect between the installed base and the new streaming platform that irks me the most. If the Stream 4K will also connect to existing home networks of TiVo boxes, the existing customers won't be abandoned. What they do for cable customers will also percolate up to retail customers I'm sure.

But Ted may be one of our only advocates at TiVo for now, and we can only hope he will have something to announce in this area in the coming months. The current management strategy is clearly to launch a completely new streaming thing without any "distraction".


----------



## jcthorne

cwoody222 said:


> Does any AndroidTV STB have Alexa support?


Yes. Nvidia Shield


----------



## shwru980r

It seems obvious to me that Tivo did not add connectivity to legacy Tivo DVRs on the new streaming device because many customers would abandon the Tivo Mini in favor of the new streaming device to gain full throated versions of the apps on the mini as well as apps that are not available on the mini. Tivo has the technology in the Mini to stream MPEG-2 video over WiFi that could probably be implemented on the new streaming device or else they could implement the transcoded streaming technology from their mobile device apps. They previously had a beta app on the fire tv that was able to stream from legacy Tivos, but it was removed.


----------



## foghorn2

If TiVo wants to, and has been wanting to "get out of the hardware business" than why the F* are they worrying about the TiVo Minis, and its loosing sales to its streaming apps ?

Cant have it both ways


----------



## BillyClyde

trip1eX said:


> Yeah he's promising deeper and more seamless integration between apps, freetv and paytv from Sling on the 4k streamer. Sounds like the product could be kind of cool and differentiate itself from that stand point.


Sounds more and more like they've teamed up with Caavo on this.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

For whatever reason I think Tivo's having a massive problem with their video transcoding, and that's possibly dictating the lack of DVR streaming more than anything else. It would also explain the rest of the app vaporware. They finally admitted as much when asked.

I'm just kinda tired of every good thing being counter-balanced by deal-breaking negatives. Yes it's stupid to lack any type of transitional functionality that'll help sell Streams to existing customers. But Tivo is Tivo (TM) so of course getting where they want to go is going to take an additional 1-2 years. Glacially slow progress has been their modus operandi for forever. 

Are they even going to release new annual models like the competition does to keep revenues bumping and stay within the news? Guessing not. They're constitutionally incapable of functioning quickly and nimbly. This is why I don't think they'll get much better than modest success. Happy to be wrong though.


----------



## srazook

TiVo users have gotten use to and love the TiVo UI, that’s why many of us have been loyal over the years. I’d love for the New TiVo Stream 4K to have the ability to integrate Live TV Streaming Services other than Sling into its UI, like YouTube TV, Hulu Plus, etc. It’s unfortunate TiVo decided to partner with Sling, they have very limited Local Channel availability and a limited storage Cloud DVR.


----------



## mdavej

srazook said:


> TiVo users have gotten use to and love the TiVo UI, that's why many of us have been loyal over the years.


There are two Tivo UI's. Which one do you love? From the posts on this forum, it looks like at least half hate the new UI, which is what you'll get on this device.


----------



## wbrightfl

srazook said:


> TiVo users have gotten use to and love the TiVo UI, that's why many of us have been loyal over the years. I'd love for the New TiVo Stream 4K to have the ability to integrate Live TV Streaming Services other than Sling into its UI, like YouTube TV, Hulu Plus, etc. It's unfortunate TiVo decided to partner with Sling, they have very limited Local Channel availability and a limited storage Cloud DVR.


agreed. Sling is missing most of my favorite channels so haven't used them. Youtube, Hulu, Fubo or even AT&T streaming would have been a better partner for channel availability.


----------



## mdavej

shwru980r said:


> It seems obvious to me that Tivo did not add connectivity to legacy Tivo DVRs on the new streaming device because many customers would abandon the Tivo Mini in favor of the new streaming device to gain full throated versions of the apps on the mini as well as apps that are not available on the mini.


They should be more concerned about people like me who abandoned Tivo entirely, not just the Mini, because of lack of apps. Besides making the Sling guide look like a Tivo guide (useless), I've already been able to do everything else this device offers for years.


----------



## cwoody222

They didn't just pick Sling to partner with, they're literally re-branding an existing product sold by Sling.

If Hulu or YouTube had something similar, maybe that'd have been an option.

Also, TiVo's current CEO is ex-COO of Dish, owner of Sling.


----------



## cwoody222

mdavej said:


> There are two Tivo UI's. Which one do you love? From the posts on this forum, it looks like at least half hate the new UI, which is what you'll get on this device.


I'd argue people who hate the "new" (it came out almost 2.5 years ago) UI actually hate the features, or lack thereof, not the actual UI itself.

Complaints include:

- bugs! (most of which are long gone since many people first tried the new UI in late 2017)
- lack of support to stream from PC (hardly something most consumers use)
- lack of Live Guide (it's like people have never used a Grid before)
- disabling of Suggestions via Thumbs
- switch to back button instead of left arrow (the horror!)
- addition of TiVo+ and pre-roll ads

For some, some of those are deal-breakers and have made them never give the actual UI a try.


----------



## mdavej

wbrightfl said:


> agreed. Sling is missing most of my favorite channels so haven't used them. Youtube, Hulu, Fubo or even AT&T streaming would have been a better partner for channel availability.





cwoody222 said:


> They didn't just pick Sling to partner with, they're literally re-branding an existing product sold by Sling.
> 
> If Hulu or YouTube had something similar, maybe that'd have been an option.
> 
> Also, TiVo's current CEO is ex-COO of Dish, owner of Sling.


Exactly. Compare and contrast:


----------



## mdavej

cwoody222 said:


> I'd argue people who hate the "new" (it came out almost 2.5 years ago) UI actually hate the features, or lack thereof, not the actual UI itself.
> 
> Complaints include:
> 
> - bugs! (most of which are long gone since many people first tried the new UI in late 2017)
> - lack of support to stream from PC (hardly something most consumers use)
> - lack of Live Guide (it's like people have never used a Grid before)
> - disabling of Suggestions via Thumbs
> - switch to back button instead of left arrow (the horror!)
> - addition of TiVo+ and pre-roll ads
> 
> For some, some of those are deal-breakers and have made them never give the actual UI a try.


I have no problem with the "new" UI. I actually prefer it. As you point out, most of the complaints are bogus. I'd also seen complaints that the new guide is hard to read, when it is actually very easy to read in my experience.

I just find it ironic how many Tivo fans in this thread are ready to embrace this device because of the Tivo interface when most of them actually despise the "new" interface. What makes people think the Hydra guide they can't/won't read today will be any better on this device?


----------



## JoeKustra

mdavej said:


> There are two Tivo UI's. Which one do you love? From the posts on this forum, it looks like at least half hate the new UI, which is what you'll get on this device.


Members of TCF (not all TiVo users) 1) dislike change and 2) dislike lack of control. I'm trying to post this nicely.


----------



## EWiser

I have no problem with new UI. The old UI was so dated. 
I think the future is not “Recording” or linear tv period. In the future you will watch the shows on demand by clicking on a show. An what up next is the feature that you will use to decide what next show you want to watch. 
Really the DVR function was good on TIVO that is caused it to get behind the shift to streaming when it should have jumped on streaming 6 years ago.


----------



## Mikeguy

mdavej said:


> I have no problem with the "new" UI. I actually prefer it. As you point out, most of the complaints are bogus.


Sorry, but: most of the complaints--well, the real, rational complaints--are_ not_ bogus. Sadly, TE4's dysfunctional, broken Suggestions is a reality, as is TE4's broken show transfer function (totally apart from transfers no longer being possible through one's TiVo box but requiring a separate trip to TiVo Online, the "transferred" shows crudding out on being played, at 8-10 minutes--still broken, the last I heard). It's not a fake user preference to prefer the Live Guide to the Grid--I tried the latter exclusively and finally gave up early on my experiment, as I found it painful for my use pattern and noticed that I just started using the feature less, simply to avoid it. And not being able to transfer a show from one's PC to one's TiVo box is a sad abandonment by TiVo of a former feature.

From what I've seen, I_ like_ the way TE4 looks--it seems pretty and sleek, and who doesn't like shiny new things. But I dislike TiVo's having abandoned well-honored and time-tested features* to get there, as well as TiVo's allowing features to remain broken--that's just an embarrassment.

Perhaps TiVo will learn from this and from consumer reaction with the Stream 4K. My fear is, it will not, and that the TiVo+ pathway is the new model.** Having seen TiVo as an Apple-like company in its field, I find that so sad. And I truly do hope that matters turn out otherwise.

* And which I use.

** I'm thinking, re-branding what is out there (and which seems deficient, sadly), rather than truly innovating and improving.


----------



## Joe3

mdavej said:


> I just find it ironic how many Tivo fans in this thread are ready to embrace this device because of the Tivo interface when most of them actually despise the "new" interface. What makes people think the Hydra guide they can't/won't read today will be any better on this device?


I don't know how many TiVo fans, if they are any left, are in the TiVo hugging mood these days, but you are conflating two different devices and functionality that have dramatically two different price points. Also, don't hold your breath waiting for Rovi/TiVo to do as they say and say as they do on anything connected to what they promise to deliver based on their Rovi/TiVo history.


----------



## Mikeguy

EWiser said:


> I think the future is not "Recording" or linear tv period. In the future you will watch the shows on demand by clicking on a show. An what up next is the feature that you will use to decide what next show you want to watch.


As the frugal guy in the room, I keep on wondering, at what cost.

Right now, I record OTA TV and watch it on my own schedule, perhaps saving shows for a broadcast "dry spell." And it's all free (apart from my time in viewing commercials in exchange--which I can skip, thanks, TiVo!). If everything moves to on-demand streaming in the future, will it retain its free nature? Or will I need to have paid subscriptions to a handful/a dozen or more streaming channels (CBS All Access, Peacock, etc.)? That just seems to be a return to a variation of paid cable life, albeit with the very nice feature of on-demand. And then there's the separate question, do you trust the content providers to continue to make shows available when you want them. Or do we end up with Disney Vaults.

I long have felt that OTA TV has been an amazing thing, one of the best deals around--look at the volume of entertainment and education you get, totally for free (well, in exchange for commercials). I realize that people seem to be more than happy now to plunk down $1000+ for a smartphone every 2 years, but I kinda like it the other way.


----------



## Charles R

What I find _bogus_ is taking one's complaints and extrapolating them to be relevant for the majority of their target market. I can guess (only TiVo knows since they track such - and obviously based their decisions on actual usage) how relevant they actually are. My guess is virtually all of the "complaints" combined would be valid for a low single digit percentage of their market. Very low - clearly low enough they didn't feel they were worth addressing.

Now that's not dismissing anyone's personal likes or dislikes rather it's not blanketly assigning their complaints to the market.


----------



## JoeKustra

Peacock will have a free version with ads. That should be interesting.


----------



## Mikeguy

JoeKustra said:


> Peacock will have a free version with ads. That should be interesting.


It is--I was surprised by that. And so, possibly, Peacock Free will be ~like current OTA but in on-demand/streaming form, over a different transmission medium? The frugal/OTA part of me approves and even likes that, at least as an option. I wonder if CBS All Access is listening.


----------



## exdishguy

cwoody222 said:


> Also, TiVo's current CEO is ex-COO of Dish, owner of Sling.


That helps. Mystery solved as to why Sling and not others.

Next up - Tivo announces an exclusive partnership with the Weather Channel to provide its streaming customers their weather information. "Now our customers can enjoy the very best weather information for free by simply watching a pre-roll ad first", said Dave Shull, CEO.


----------



## exdishguy

mdavej said:


> Exactly. Compare and contrast:


It oozes with innovation doesn't it? You can tell they were in the labs a good long while with this one. Let's see....

Step 1. Lick Tivo sticker. 
Step 2. Apply wet sticker to box. 
Step 3. Launch said lick and stick box as hugely disruptive Tivo-tech. 
Step 4. Denounce those old fuddy duddy Tivo customers from yesteryear. 
Step 5. Brag to your board of directors about your pure business genius...until it flops. Then have a Product Manager scapegoat ready to lay the blame on when the whole thing flops in spectacular fashion.


----------



## JoeKustra

exdishguy said:


> That helps. Mystery solved as to why Sling and not others.
> 
> Next up - Tivo announces an exclusive partnership with the Weather Channel to provide its streaming customers their weather information. "Now our customers can enjoy the very best weather information for free by simply watching a pre-roll ad first", said Dave Shull, CEO.


The trick part is "their weather information". If that means The Weather Channel then it's about 80% commercials. I get the channel now, and it's based on my local office, 20+ miles north of me. Unless there's a nearby disaster, it only has weather about 16 hours per day during the week. Sounds like a "free lunch".


----------



## EWiser

Get free AirTv

Watch Live Local TV on AirTV | Sling TV


----------



## foghorn2

exdishguy said:


> It oozes with innovation doesn't it? You can tell they were in the labs a good long while with this one. Let's see....
> 
> Step 1. Lick Tivo sticker.
> Step 2. Apply wet sticker to box.
> Step 3. Launch said lick and stick box as something hugely disruptive Tivo-tech.
> Step 4. Denounce those old fuddy duddy Tivo customers from yesteryear.
> Step 5. Brag to your board of directors about your pure business genius...until it flops. Then have a Product Manager scapegoat ready to lay the blame on when the whole thing flops in spectacular fashion.


Thats why these people graduate from places like Harvard. They are so intelligent.
Us phesants (  ) are so stupid.


----------



## trip1eX

Mikeguy said:


> It is--I was surprised by that. And so, possibly, Peacock Free will be ~like current OTA but in on-demand/streaming form, over a different transmission medium? The frugal/OTA part of me approves and even likes that, at least as an option. I wonder if CBS All Access is listening.


The free library features about 7,500 hours of video, including:


Next-day access to current seasons of broadcast shows in their first season (known as freshmen series).
Select episodes of marquee Peacock originals (but not full seasons).
Curated Peacock streaming genre channels such as SNL Vault, Family Movie Night and Olympic Profiles.
Complete classic series and popular movies.
Curated daily news and sports programming, including the Olympics.
Spanish-language content.

For $5 more you get:


Full seasons of Peacock originals. 
Next-day access to current seasons of returning broadcast shows.
Early access to late-night talk shows, so you don't have to stay up as late to watch Jimmy Fallon (which will stream at 5 p.m. PT/8 p.m. ET) or Seth Meyers.
Additional sports, like Premier League soccer.
For another $5 you get:


No Ads


----------



## tenthplanet

mdavej said:


> Exactly. Compare and contrast:


Same OEM manufacturer, we need to see an internal teardown of the circuitry. A case tell us nothing.


----------



## tenthplanet

Mikeguy said:


> It is--I was surprised by that. And so, possibly, Peacock Free will be ~like current OTA but in on-demand/streaming form, over a different transmission medium? The frugal/OTA part of me approves and even likes that, at least as an option. I wonder if CBS All Access is listening.


That's why Viacom bought Pluto. CBSAA will not be free, free means crap creeps in along with ads.


----------



## Mikeguy

trip1eX said:


> The free library features about 7,500 hours of video, including:
> 
> 
> Next-day access to current seasons of broadcast shows in their first season (known as freshmen series).
> Select episodes of marquee Peacock originals (but not full seasons).
> Curated Peacock streaming genre channels such as SNL Vault, Family Movie Night and Olympic Profiles.
> Complete classic series and popular movies.
> Curated daily news and sports programming, including the Olympics.
> Spanish-language content.
> 
> For $5 more you get:
> 
> 
> Full seasons of Peacock originals.
> Next-day access to current seasons of returning broadcast shows.
> Early access to late-night talk shows, so you don't have to stay up as late to watch Jimmy Fallon (which will stream at 5 p.m. PT/8 p.m. ET) or Seth Meyers.
> Additional sports, like Premier League soccer.
> For another $5 you get:
> 
> 
> No Ads


Nice, but disappointed with, on the free tier, no access to the current season of returning shows. And so, not a (free) replacement for NBC OTA. (Ya' hear that, TiVo?)


----------



## Mikeguy

tenthplanet said:


> Same OEM manufacturer, we need to see an internal teardown of the circuitry. A case tell us nothing.


Plus, of course, need to see the user interface and operating system for what it makes available and how it operates.


----------



## tenthplanet

Mikeguy said:


> Plus, of course, need to see the user interface and operating system for what it makes available and how it operates.


Indeed


----------



## aaronwt

trip1eX said:


> The free library features about 7,500 hours of video, including:
> 
> 
> Next-day access to current seasons of broadcast shows in their first season (known as freshmen series).
> Select episodes of marquee Peacock originals (but not full seasons).
> Curated Peacock streaming genre channels such as SNL Vault, Family Movie Night and Olympic Profiles.
> Complete classic series and popular movies.
> Curated daily news and sports programming, including the Olympics.
> Spanish-language content.
> 
> For $5 more you get:
> 
> 
> Full seasons of Peacock originals.
> Next-day access to current seasons of returning broadcast shows.
> Early access to late-night talk shows, so you don't have to stay up as late to watch Jimmy Fallon (which will stream at 5 p.m. PT/8 p.m. ET) or Seth Meyers.
> Additional sports, like Premier League soccer.
> For another $5 you get:
> 
> 
> No Ads


Isn't it also $5 less for Comcast Customers? So the first two tiers are free and then the commercial free one is $5? I thought that was what I read today.

Sent from my Tab A 10.1


----------



## trip1eX

aaronwt said:


> Isn't it also $5 less for Cocmast Customers? So the first two tiers are free and then the commercial free one is $5? I thought that was what I read today.


Yep.


----------



## shwru980r

This new Tivo streaming device is a counterfeit Tivo. It's like putting the guts of another DVR inside a Tivo case.


----------



## foghorn2

trip1eX said:


> The free library features about 7,500 hours of video, including:
> 
> 
> Next-day access to current seasons of broadcast shows in their first season (known as freshmen series).
> Select episodes of marquee Peacock originals (but not full seasons).
> Curated Peacock streaming genre channels such as SNL Vault, Family Movie Night and Olympic Profiles.
> Complete classic series and popular movies.
> Curated daily news and sports programming, including the Olympics.
> Spanish-language content.
> 
> For $5 more you get:
> 
> 
> Full seasons of Peacock originals.
> Next-day access to current seasons of returning broadcast shows.
> Early access to late-night talk shows, so you don't have to stay up as late to watch Jimmy Fallon (which will stream at 5 p.m. PT/8 p.m. ET) or Seth Meyers.
> Additional sports, like Premier League soccer.
> For another $5 you get:
> 
> 
> No Ads


For another $ 5 you get

- Videos of Concast call center agents lying and ripping people off on the phone
- Funny videos of Concast employees telling customers they dont support cable cards, or have any
- Fake News snippets from MSDNC


----------



## chiguy50

foghorn2 said:


> Thats why these people graduate from places like Harvard. They are so intelligent.
> *Us phesants* (  ) are so stupid.





foghorn2 said:


> For another $ 5 you get
> 
> - Videos of Concast call center agents lying and ripping people off on the phone
> - Funny videos of Concast employees telling customers they dont support cable cards, or have any
> - *Fake News snippets from MSDNC*


Thus spake a proud member of the Faux Noise booboisie!


----------



## dougtv

chiguy50 said:


> Thus spake a proud member of the Faux Noise booboisie!


 Whataboutism detected !

TiVo used to lead the game, now they just follow. TiVo Streaming devices will probably not do well for them and their current investors will wonder why they bought a declining user base as the company continues to push legacy customers away. TiVo was the best at one thing, and they decided to move away from that thing. We have seen this mistake again and again with so many other technology companies and leadership changes.

The product safe card by copying your competitors traditions will always be the final move before a product simply just becomes a part of history.


----------



## oldradio99

With the upcoming streaming, I decided to do some research. wanted to find a consolidator app for all streaming services. 

has anyone experimented with ReelGood? Only downside so far is can’t install on my Samsung TV.


----------



## BillyClyde

oldradio99 said:


> With the upcoming streaming, I decided to do some research. wanted to find a consolidator app for all streaming services.
> 
> has anyone experimented with ReelGood? Only downside so far is can't install on my Samsung TV.


Have you read about Caavo? It consolidates your devices and most all of the apps.


----------



## oldradio99

Caavo does not consolidate streaming services into one menu where I can search and flag shows for watching across all services


----------



## mattyro7878

Let's not forget that in spite of the streaming craze do we really believe that the entire world made possible by tv is going to disappear in less than 20 years? I'm talking about shows being developed and aired for the sole purpose of selling advertising? That advertising being priced based on numbers of eyeballs watching live or dvring the show on it's first airing. The entire ad industry as well as thousands of studios rely on this model. I'm not saying all this will never change ; I am saying it will last long enough where DVR boxes will be relevant for at least a decade.


----------



## Dan203

foghorn2 said:


> Do you think the remote pictured is really whats gonna be shipped? Why the num keys unless its going to control a legacy tivo dvr?


They're pairing it with a SlingTV, which has live TV like UI


----------



## NashGuy

mattyro7878 said:


> Let's not forget that in spite of the streaming craze do we really believe that the entire world made possible by tv is going to disappear in less than 20 years? I'm talking about shows being developed and aired for the sole purpose of selling advertising? That advertising being priced based on numbers of eyeballs watching live or dvring the show on it's first airing. The entire ad industry as well as thousands of studios rely on this model. I'm not saying all this will never change ; I am saying it will last long enough where DVR boxes will be relevant for at least a decade.


Actually, the DVR is a challenge to ad-supported TV because it allows the viewer to skip/FF past the ads. Ad-supported TV definitely isn't going away in the streaming era. Consider YouTube or the upcoming Peacock service from NBCUniversal which will rely heavily on ads. The thing with ads in streaming content, though, is that you can't skip them. Which makes them a more effective expenditure for advertisers. That fact, combined with the fact that advertisers can use data to target streaming ads towards the audiences they most wish to reach, makes streaming ads more lucrative. Therefore it doesn't take as many minutes of ads per hour of streaming content to support the show. That's why the ad load on Hulu, for instance, is significantly less than if you watch the same show live on a broadcast or cable channel.


----------



## trip1eX

NashGuy said:


> Actually, the DVR is a challenge to ad-supported TV because it allows the viewer to skip/FF past the ads. Ad-supported TV definitely isn't going away in the streaming era. Consider YouTube or the upcoming Peacock service from NBCUniversal which will rely heavily on ads. The thing with ads in streaming content, though, is that you can't skip them. Which makes them a more effective expenditure for advertisers. That fact, combined with the fact that advertisers can use data to target streaming ads towards the audiences they most wish to reach, makes streaming ads more lucrative. Therefore it doesn't take as many minutes of ads per hour of streaming content to support the show. That's why the ad load on Hulu, for instance, is significantly less than if you watch the same show live on a broadcast or cable channel.


Yep. But don't forget Youtube ads are skippable after 5 seconds. I wouldn't be surprised to see some of that technology come to other ad-supported streaming.


----------



## BillyClyde

oldradio99 said:


> Caavo does not consolidate streaming services into one menu where I can search and flag shows for watching across all services


Are you sure you know what Caavo is?

_"........We are in a golden age of entertainment. Great TV shows, fantastic films from all over the world, incredible sports and streaming media options. Watching TV is supposed to be time to unwind, but getting to what you want to watch can often be a struggle.

With Control Center, you can control everything that's connected to your TV with one voice-controlled remote. Plus Control Center is designed to be family friendly, so everyone can use the TV.

*All of your content will be centralized in one place, so it's easy to get straight to the show.*

Control Center is a great solution for anyone who wants to add something new to their home entertainment system, like Sonos, a Roku or Apple TV, but doesn't want to create a complicated setup. With Control Center, you will eliminate remotes and make your home entertainment system a simple, streamlined, easy-to-use experience...................."

"...........True Universal Search

Say the name of any actor, movie, TV show, or video and Control Center will display relevant results across all your subscriptions and services, even YouTube..........."

"......... Control Center supports a widely used set of apps. This support allows Control Center to unify all your shows from all your apps across all your devices into a single watchlist, we call Caavo Cache.

Once you search for and view a show via the Control Center user interface (UI), it will automatically be added into the Caavo Cache watchlist. This will set search priority to these shows and allow you to pick up where you left off quicker. Control Center will continuously add support for more apps........."_


----------



## jaselzer

Wow, my parents were angry with me when I grew my hair long and smoked pot...50 years ago!! I have tried not to judge my children simply on the basis that time has changed and what is acceptable and normal now certainly is different than when I was young. 

I am of the opinion that the actual dongle is not the relevant issue. It is that TiVo MUST move on from physical DVR hardware, cable cards, etc. because what was relevant years past is no longer relevant today. The dongle itself, imho, is TiVo’s beginning to try, emphasis on try, to get their patented UI and background software into all sorts of devices; dongles, streaming boxes, smart tv, etc. It is TiVo’s determination that it is their way to survive as a company going in to the future. 

I think we can all agree that they are a little late to the party. Or perhaps very late and there is no certainty that this is going to work for them. But they have a shot at it. But continuing to be a physical hardware company is simply suicide. And keep in mind as you read this, I have owned every single TiVo DVR cable box from the beginning. I love my TiVos and I also love innovation and I want Tivo to survive.

By the way, and this is a different issue, I believe that if TiVo is able to be relatively successful in their endeavors we will not be looking at an independent TiVo/Xperi publicly traded company for long. Someone like Amazon or Roku will purchase the whole company to maintain exclusive use of the UI and background software .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## aaronwt

NashGuy said:


> Actually, the DVR is a challenge to ad-supported TV because it allows the viewer to skip/FF past the ads. Ad-supported TV definitely isn't going away in the streaming era. Consider YouTube or the upcoming Peacock service from NBCUniversal which will rely heavily on ads. The thing with ads in streaming content, though, is that you can't skip them. Which makes them a more effective expenditure for advertisers. That fact, combined with the fact that advertisers can use data to target streaming ads towards the audiences they most wish to reach, makes streaming ads more lucrative. Therefore it doesn't take as many minutes of ads per hour of streaming content to support the show. That's why the ad load on Hulu, for instance, is significantly less than if you watch the same show live on a broadcast or cable channel.


Less but still too much. It's why I won't watch any shows if there is no way to get the ads down to 15 seconds or zero. And over 98% of what I watch has zero ads for me. Since I can skip or scan past them. Or I buy the show outright which also has no ads. There are a few ads I see on my hulu no ads plan. But they are only 15 seconds prior to the show. Which I can handle.

Sent from my Tab A 10.1


----------



## mattyro7878

As far as TiVo being " late to the party" do we think that Roku, Firetv, and Apple ( and others), are the only streamers there will be now and forever? No. New products will always come along. Say Pioneer comes out with a streaming stick. Is it doomed to fail cuz it wasn't released before 2020?


----------



## mattyro7878

One other thing. If TiVo paired Stream4k with our boxes I am positive we would all drop a $50 bill. That's a lot of sales they simply won't get. Even folks with minis may give it a try. I don't know the number of retail boxes..quarter of a million? We're talking 12.5 million in sales in the first week. Plug into an HDMI on any tv and you can access your Bolt, Roamio or Edge?? Nice


----------



## Pacomartin

Locals are a $5 option with SlingTV


----------



## JoeKustra

Pacomartin said:


> Locals are a $5 option with SlingTV


Sorry to ask a stupid question, but is CBS considered a local?


----------



## cwoody222

Pacomartin said:


> Locals are a $5 option with SlingTV


Not in all markets.


----------



## cwoody222

mattyro7878 said:


> One other thing. If TiVo paired Stream4k with our boxes I am positive we would all drop a $50 bill. That's a lot of sales they simply won't get. Even folks with minis may give it a try. I don't know the number of retail boxes..quarter of a million? We're talking 12.5 million in sales in the first week. Plug into an HDMI on any tv and you can access your Bolt, Roamio or Edge?? Nice


But for that they'd have to develop a whole new product. Instead, they're rebranding an existing product.

This allowed them to go to market quickly with little engineering and R&D costs. All while still being attractive to a much larger user base (non-TiVo users outnumber TiVo users).


----------



## shwru980r

jaselzer said:


> It is that TiVo MUST move on from physical DVR hardware, cable cards, etc. because what was relevant years past is no longer relevant today. The dongle itself, imho, is TiVo's beginning to try, emphasis on try, to get their patented UI and background software into all sorts of devices; dongles, streaming boxes, smart tv, etc. It is TiVo's determination that it is their way to survive as a company going in to the future.


Amazon released a brand new physical DVR despite having their own cloud storage product. Seems like it was imperative for Tivo to partner with Amazon like they partner with cable companies to supply physical DVRs. Tivo won't even release an app for the Fire TV to compete with Amazon's DVR.


----------



## mschnebly

mattyro7878 said:


> As far as TiVo being " late to the party" do we think that Roku, Firetv, and Apple ( and others), are the only streamers there will be now and forever? No. New products will always come along. Say Pioneer comes out with a streaming stick. Is it doomed to fail cuz it wasn't released before 2020?


This is true but I don't see TiVo as being on the same scale as Amazon, Apple, etc and they have the power of the mighty ching to play with a new product (lose money) until it's a success. It sounds like TiVo is betting the store on this one.


----------



## keenanSR

Pacomartin said:


> Locals are a $5 option with SlingTV


It appears to be a rather fractured offering though. In my market, it says I can get "Network" FOX and NBC, whatever that means, but to get CBS I have to use CBS All Access. And there's nothing for ABC or PBS.


----------



## wmcbrine

jaselzer said:


> By the way, and this is a different issue, I believe that if TiVo is able to be relatively successful in their endeavors we will not be looking at an independent TiVo/Xperi publicly traded company for long. Someone like Amazon or Roku will purchase the whole company to maintain exclusive use of the UI and background software .


That makes no sense to me. Amazon and Roku have what they need already. If they bought TiVo, it would only be to shut down a competitor.


----------



## jaselzer

Perhaps or perhaps not. I am sorry it makes no sense to you. My point was that the Tivo UI, assuming it is robust and functional, is supposed to bring together in a traditional guide and environment what are now disparate apps that functional completely separate from each other. I think there is an advantage to owning Tivo's patents, etc. that create a new interface for dealing with the myriad of existing apps. If Tivo can perfect it and start to get traction with their UI into devices such as Sony's smart tv's then I feel someone already in the streaming device business may want to own that benefit. Obviously I could be wrong, but on a personal level, I like it alot. I would love to have something like Tivo's existing One Pass Manager for the streaming apps.


----------



## Dan203

EWiser said:


> I have no problem with new UI. The old UI was so dated.


The vertical tiles My Shows list, with scrolling horizontal tiles For episodes, that was in the original version was god awful. I played with it recently and noticed they got rid of that in favor of more of a regular TE3 list.

I still don't like their inconsistent use of vertical and horizontal menus. Some sections use horizontal lists with headers and vertical items for the options while others have options right on the horizontal list.


----------



## Joe3

cwoody222 said:


> But for that they'd have to develop a whole new product. Instead, they're rebranding an existing product.
> 
> This allowed them to go to market quickly with little engineering and R&D costs.


You mean quick as being late and being inconsequential.

TiVo is no longer a tech company. It is a racketeering system created by a corrupt bord of directors and someone needs to investigate soon. Look, it happened. It's the only thing that explains the Rovi years.


----------



## trip1eX

mattyro7878 said:


> As far as TiVo being " late to the party" do we think that Roku, Firetv, and Apple ( and others), are the only streamers there will be now and forever? No. New products will always come along. Say Pioneer comes out with a streaming stick. Is it doomed to fail cuz it wasn't released before 2020?


Yes a pioneer streaming stick is doomed to fail because it wasn't released before 2020. 

MIcrosoft failed at smartphones for the same sort of reason. Late to the party. And Microsoft was and still is one of the biggest richest companies out there.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi

Joe3 said:


> You mean quick as being late and being inconsequential.
> 
> TiVo is no longer a tech company. It is a racketeering system created by a corrupt bord of directors and someone needs to investigate soon. Look, it happened. It the only thing that explains the Rovi years.


Investigate what?


----------



## JoeKustra

Joe3 said:


> It the only thing that explains the Rovi years.


I checked my calendar. Rovi years aren't there. Google failed too. Please elaborate.


----------



## foghorn2

Dan203 said:


> The vertical tiles My Shows list, with scrolling horizontal tiles For episodes, that was in the original version was god awful. I played with it recently and noticed they got rid of that in favor of more of a regular TE3 list.
> 
> I still don't like their inconsistent use of vertical and horizontal menus. Some sections use horizontal lists with headers and vertical items for the options while others have options right on the horizontal list.


I realize how much easier it is to use the tivo with te3, and everything is faster, esp on the minis


----------



## foghorn2

PSU_Sudzi said:


> Investigate what?


Tivo in the Ukraine ?


----------



## PSU_Sudzi

foghorn2 said:


> Tivo in the Ukraine ?


Ha, yeah the board has probably been infiltrated by Russian assets!


----------



## omelet1978

Pokemon_Dad said:


> It is Android TV and it is supposed to support any Android TV app, though the interface will probably keep pushing TiVo+ and Sling at you. The product page shows the logos for several streaming services and promises "over 5,000 apps": TiVo Stream 4K - Coming soon


Any more inputs on Disney+ and Spotify being on the Tivo Stream since it is an Android based device. I'd be fine with the interface not pushing me towards Disney+ and Spotify and them just being stand alone apps.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

omelet1978 said:


> Any more inputs on Disney+ and Spotify being on the Tivo Stream since it is an Android based device. I'd be fine with the interface not pushing me towards Disney+ and Spotify and them just being stand alone apps.


I'm sure if someone were to pay TiVo to promote an app, TiVo would promote that app. Also, on the existing DVR interface we get suggestions of where to find content, and on this platform they're sure to expand on that. We'll have to wait and see what this all looks like.


----------



## NashGuy

omelet1978 said:


> Any more inputs on Disney+ and Spotify being on the Tivo Stream since it is an Android based device. I'd be fine with the interface not pushing me towards Disney+ and Spotify and them just being stand alone apps.


Disney+ and Spotify both have an Android TV app available in the Google Play Store. So yes, you'll be able to install and use those apps on the TiVo Stream 4K, which runs Google's Android TV operating system, even if the TiVo app on this device doesn't incorporate content from those apps into its UI/recommendations/watch list.

How To Download and Sign Up For Disney Plus on Android TV

Spotify on Android TV


----------



## tapokata

mdavej said:


> That's how I'm reading their website. I've never tried Sling TV myself.
> Watch Locals Online | Sling TV
> 
> Seems like a huge oversight for a device aimed at cord cutters.


The lack of locals is one reason why Sling is substantially less $ per month than YTTV or Hulu Live.


----------



## Dan203

tapokata said:


> The lack of locals is one reason why Sling is substantially less $ per month than YTTV or Hulu Live.


I think this may be why TiVo partnered with them. I think their ultimate goal is to pair this with an OTA DVR of their own making.


----------



## BillyClyde

Dan203 said:


> I think this may be why TiVo partnered with them. *I think their ultimate goal is to pair this with an OTA DVR of their own making.*


New, existing, both?


----------



## foghorn2

tapokata said:


> The lack of locals is one reason why Sling is substantially less $ per month than YTTV or Hulu Live.


Which is good thing for those of us who can receive the broadcasts with an antenna, everyone else forces you to pay for them and the local channels extort money from people who have bad signals.

I love Sling for doing this.


----------



## Dan203

BillyClyde said:


> New, existing, both?


I'm thinking something small and headless like a Tablo. Something they can do transcoding at record time on so they don't have to worry about on the fly transcoding.

But who knows.


----------



## foghorn2

The AirTV 1 and 2 are flying off Amazons shelves as we speak. The AirTV 1 (same thing as 2 without AC wifi) went up in price and still selling out. Probaly for Sling customers wanting to watch and or record the Superbowl.

This should have been TiVos device partnered with Sling long time ago.

SlingTivo would be a great device.


----------



## Dan203

How many tuners does that have?


----------



## foghorn2

Dan203 said:


> How many tuners does that have?


 the AirTv only has 2 tuners, Wished it had 4. It does the trick though, You can even use a 64gb (minimum) Usb drive for DVR. No live trick play unless you record. This is where TiVo should step in.

Its nice to have the free oTa channels in the sling guide. And it starts off with your big 4 locals first then the sling channels then the subchannels at the end.


----------



## Dan203

Is it modular enough that you can buy two to record 4 things and it'll blend it all together?


----------



## foghorn2

Dan203 said:


> Is it modular enough that you can buy two to record 4 things and it'll blend it all together?


No indication that would work. The only way to setup the airtv tuner is with a app on a mobile phone- not on the tv client. That app initiates the channel scan and linkage to the sling account. Once that done the SlingTv guide magically displays the ota channels seamlessly.

This all seems half baked, the hardware is there (seems to be made by the factory that has been making the Dish Hoppers) but the software is lacking.


----------



## jcthorne

foghorn2 said:


> Which is good thing for those of us who can receive the broadcasts with an antenna, everyone else forces you to pay for them and the local channels extort money from people who have bad signals.
> 
> I love Sling for doing this.


Locast can give you your locals for $5 a month and its compatible with Channels DVR. Works well as secondary tuners with a HDHomerun as primary.


----------



## mdavej

jcthorne said:


> Locast can give you your locals for $5 a month and its compatible with Channels DVR. Works well as secondary tuners with a HDHomerun as primary.


Locast is only in 9 major cities (New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Chicago, Houston, Dallas, Denver, and Washington, DC). And the picture quality is pretty terrible. OTA would be a better option if possible.


----------



## trip1eX

foghorn2 said:


> Which is good thing for those of us who can receive the broadcasts with an antenna, everyone else forces you to pay for them and the local channels extort money from people who have bad signals.
> 
> I love Sling for doing this.


Yeah except YTTV is the same price as Sling's combined Blue and Orange package. 

So to me Sling is only attractive if you get a slimmed down package either Blue or Orange. Then you're at $30/mo. If you add more than 5gb storage space, which is a joke to anyone on this forum, then it's another $5/mo. That's $35/mo compared to $50/mo for YTTV. But you have to provide your own locals and pay for something to record those which will add ~$5-$10/mo in extra equipments/subscription costs pro-rated over 5 years. Then you're pretty much at the cost of YTTV and in the meantime you get more channels in YTTV than either of sling's Blue or Orange options plus you get unlimited storage space. In the end ....hard to beat YTTV.


----------



## shwru980r

jcthorne said:


> Locast can give you your locals for $5 a month and its compatible with Channels DVR. Works well as secondary tuners with a HDHomerun as primary.





mdavej said:


> Locast is only in 9 major cities (New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Chicago, Houston, Dallas, Denver, and Washington, DC). And the picture quality is pretty terrible. OTA would be a better option if possible.


I was able to view the New York City channels with Locast using a VPN on my Fire TV. I did an A/B comparison with the same channels from my antenna and noticed that the resolution of Locast was not as good as my local channels but it was watchable .

If you don't pay the $5 per month subscription, you get a pre roll Locast ad and then intermittent ads that kick you out of the show into the Locast guide, but you could watch it live without paying.

It might be a good option for me with channels DVR if I didn't have to use a VPN, but even then I would be paying $5 per month for Locast and $8 per month for Channels DVR. I paid $199 for my Roamio OTA a couple of years ago with their cyber Monday sale.

I think there is a risk the either Locast or Channels DVR could go out of business or change their terms of service. I think Locast is being sued.


----------



## foghorn2

trip1eX said:


> Yeah except YTTV is the same price as Sling's combined Blue and Orange package.
> 
> So to me Sling is only attractive if you get a slimmed down package either Blue or Orange. Then you're at $30/mo. If you add more than 5gb storage space, which is a joke to anyone on this forum, then it's another $5/mo. That's $35/mo compared to $50/mo for YTTV. But you have to provide your own locals and pay for something to record those which will add ~$5-$10/mo in extra equipments/subscription costs pro-rated over 5 years. Then you're pretty much at the cost of YTTV and in the meantime you get more channels in YTTV than either of sling's Blue or Orange options plus you get unlimited storage space. In the end ....hard to beat YTTV.


$30 is all im paying and all I need
dont need more than 10 hrs cloud dvr as most things are on demand

Im not paying for locals I get for free

so:
$30 < $50


----------



## spiderpumpkin

shwru980r said:


> I was able to view the New York City channels with Locast using a VPN on my Fire TV. I did an A/B comparison with the same channels from my antenna and noticed that the resolution of Locast was not as good as my local channels but it was watchable .
> 
> If you don't pay the $5 per month subscription, you get a pre roll Locast ad and then intermittent ads that kick you out of the show into the Locast guide, but you could watch it live without paying.
> 
> It might be a good option for me with channels DVR if I didn't have to use a VPN, but even then I would be paying $5 per month for Locast and $8 per month for Channels DVR. I paid $199 for my Roamio OTA a couple of years ago with their cyber Monday sale.
> 
> I think there is a risk the either Locast or Channels DVR could go out of business or change their terms of service. I think Locast is being sued.


You only need to use the VPN to add Locast to the Channels DVR. After it's added, disable VPN, and it just works without VPN.


----------



## shwru980r

spiderpumpkin said:


> You only need to use the VPN to add Locast to the Channels DVR. After it's added, disable VPN, and it just works without VPN.


Could you add Locast channels from multiple cities to Channels DVR?


----------



## keenanSR

I believe Locast is being sued by the big networks for selling something they don't have the rights to so planning a TV channel reception system based on Locast seems a bit questionable.


----------



## spiderpumpkin

shwru980r said:


> Could you add Locast channels from multiple cities to Channels DVR?


I switched between LA and Chicago once, but you can only use one at a time.


----------



## spiderpumpkin

keenanSR said:


> I believe Locast is being sued by the big networks for selling something they don't have the rights to so planning a TV channel reception system based on Locast seems a bit questionable.


Channels DVR doesn't have a VPN and doesn't support that. However, they can't control what the end user does to change their location.


----------



## keenanSR

spiderpumpkin said:


> Channels DVR doesn't have a VPN and doesn't support that. However, they can't control what the end user does to change their location.


Sorry, I was speaking in general about the Locast product itself, about how long it will even be around under the legal pressure of the big broadcast networks.


----------



## trip1eX

foghorn2 said:


> $30 is all im paying and all I need
> dont need more than 10 hrs cloud dvr as most things are on demand
> 
> Im not paying for locals I get for free
> 
> so:
> $30 < $50


no dvr for locals either then I take it? It sounds like a good deal for you. Why Sling over something like Philo? Sports channels or ?


----------



## foghorn2

trip1eX said:


> no dvr for locals either then I take it? It sounds like a good deal for you. Why Sling over something like Philo? Sports channels or ?


Yes DVR for locals with the AirTv with a usb stick. Philio does not have the channels I want.


----------



## trip1eX

foghorn2 said:


> Yes DVR for locals with the AirTv with a usb stick. Philio does not have the channels I want.


Oh so just $30 for everything. No extra fees for guide data? Can you share local recordings with a sling app on other TVs or no? How is the commercial skip?

I wonder if the TiVo Stream will also act an OTA dvr if you attach a storage device.


----------



## foghorn2

trip1eX said:


> Oh so just $30 for everything. No extra fees for guide data? Can you share local recordings with a sling app on other TVs or no?
> 
> I wonder if the TiVo Stream will also act an OTA dvr if you attach a storage device?


Yes, $30 - thats it. I use the free 10 hr cloud dvr for time shifting, killing live tv commercials. Lots of on demand, dont need any more dvr storage.

The oTa DVR with the AirTv lets you stream live ota video or dvr recordings anywhere, inside your home or another state even. You just need the Sling App. The very essence of Sling technology. Dish with Sling is really pissing off the local broadcasters Im sure. And good for them!

The Tivo Steam will do all this, it has nothing to do with it being a Tivo streamer, just Sling technology.


----------



## trip1eX

foghorn2 said:


> Yes, $30 - thats it. I use the free 10 hr cloud dvr for time shifting, killing live tv commercials. Lots of on demand, dont need any more dvr storage.
> 
> The oTa DVR with the AirTv lets you stream live ota video or dvr recordings anywhere, inside your home or another state even. You just need the Sling App. The very essence of Sling technology. Dish with Sling is really pissing off the local broadcasters Im sure. And good for them!
> 
> The Tivo Steam will do all this, it has nothing to do with it being a Tivo streamer, just Sling technology.


Oh I know Sling. Friends in Boston had it when I stayed there years ago and I'm sure I pissed off one of their friends because I was watching tv in the basement one evening and it kept changing to the Red Sox channel and I kept changing it to something else. lol.

But that was back when it wasn't an app. I think it was hardware. I forget.

As far as the STream gose, I was wondering if Tivo is going to support OTA recordings ..because doesn't this compete with the Edge OTA then? What's the drawback? 1-tuner only?

[tangent] Waht are the ods you haev a typo like gose and it sounds jus lyke goes? [/tangent]


----------



## BillyClyde

So since you're late for everything possible since your initial offerings essentially creating the DVR, it's status quo then, right?

Case in point........the subject of this thread.


----------



## cwoody222

Haha I laughed at that! Good on TiVo!


----------



## NashGuy

trip1eX said:


> Yeah except YTTV is the same price as Sling's combined Blue and Orange package.
> 
> So to me Sling is only attractive if you get a slimmed down package either Blue or Orange. Then you're at $30/mo. If you add more than 5gb storage space, which is a joke to anyone on this forum, then it's another $5/mo. That's $35/mo compared to $50/mo for YTTV. But you have to provide your own locals and pay for something to record those which will add ~$5-$10/mo in extra equipments/subscription costs pro-rated over 5 years. Then you're pretty much at the cost of YTTV and in the meantime you get more channels in YTTV than either of sling's Blue or Orange options plus you get unlimited storage space. In the end ....hard to beat YTTV.





foghorn2 said:


> $30 is all im paying and all I need
> dont need more than 10 hrs cloud dvr as most things are on demand
> 
> Im not paying for locals I get for free
> 
> so:
> $30 < $50


Yeah, as I've said before, Sling has carved out a niche serving a slice of value-focused consumers with limited needs. Folks like Foghorn2 who are content getting their locals for free with an OTA antenna and only need an incomplete set of cable channels (either Sling's Blue *or* Orange package), probably because they need only certain live sports channels (e.g. Orange for the ESPN channels or Blue for the FS1 and NBCSN channels that carry NASCAR).

But once you combine Blue and Orange, you're up to $45 and you still don't have locals, you're still missing some popular cable channels that YTTV has, and you still only have 10 hours of cloud DVR. At that point, you're much better off paying an extra $5 and getting YTTV. (Trip1eX, you were quoting the discounted first-month prices for Sling. Orange+Blue is only $35 the first month, then goes up to the regular $45/mo rate.) If you upgrade Sling's cloud DVR to 50 hours for an extra $5/mo, then you're actually even at $50. Can't see why anyone would do that when YTTV gives you unlimited storage and more channels, including locals. (That said, I look for YTTV to increase their price above $50 before long.)

Only advantage I can see that Sling has over YTTV in terms of cable channels are the A+E Networks (A&E, History, Lifetime). They're part of both Sling's Blue and Orange packages but aren't on YTTV at all (yet, anyway).


----------



## Dan203

BillyClyde said:


> So since you're late for everything possible since your initial offerings essentially creating the DVR, it's status quo then, right?
> 
> Case in point........the subject of this thread.


So is the Tinder one implying that people put pictures from when they were much younger on there?


----------



## trip1eX

NashGuy said:


> Yeah, as I've said before, Sling has carved out a niche serving a slice of value-focused consumers with limited needs. Folks like Foghorn2 who are content getting their locals for free with an OTA antenna and only need an incomplete set of cable channels (either Sling's Blue *or* Orange package), probably because they need only certain live sports channels (e.g. Orange for the ESPN channels or Blue for the FS1 and NBCSN channels that carry NASCAR).
> 
> But once you combine Blue and Orange, you're up to $45 and you still don't have locals, you're still missing some popular cable channels that YTTV has, and you still only have 10 hours of cloud DVR. At that point, you're much better off paying an extra $5 and getting YTTV. (Trip1eX, you were quoting the discounted first-month prices for Sling. Orange+Blue is only $35 the first month, then goes up to the regular $45/mo rate.) If you upgrade Sling's cloud DVR to 50 hours for an extra $5/mo, then you're actually even at $50. Can't see why anyone would do that when YTTV gives you unlimited storage and more channels, including locals. (That said, I look for YTTV to increase their price above $50 before long.)
> 
> Only advantage I can see that Sling has over YTTV in terms of cable channels are the A+E Networks (A&E, History, Lifetime). They're part of both Sling's Blue and Orange packages but aren't on YTTV at all (yet, anyway).


I was quoting just Blue or Orange not both with the $30/mo figure plus $5/mo for the dvr. I did think the combined price was $50/mo not $45/mo though. I said both Orange and Blue were the same price as YTTV.

Another Sling niche or advantage is the number of add-on packages it has. Possible to get some channels that one can't get on other services or might cost more $$$ on other services.


----------



## tenthplanet

BillyClyde said:


> So since you're late for everything possible since your initial offerings essentially creating the DVR, it's status quo then, right?
> 
> Case in point........the subject of this thread.


The Tinder one funny  disturbing  but still funny.


----------



## tenthplanet

Dan203 said:


> So is the Tinder one implying that people put pictures from when they were much younger on there?


----------



## jcthorne

keenanSR said:


> I believe Locast is being sued by the big networks for selling something they don't have the rights to so planning a TV channel reception system based on Locast seems a bit questionable.


Locast was built by a legal group using the exact model described by the Supreme Court as the only legal method for retransmission in the Aereo case. In order for Locast to be shut down, it would ultimately require the supreme court to reverse its prior decision and would also outlaw RF retransmission as well. Locast has a much stronger case than Aereo did and a legal precedent to support it. AND a much larger legal fund defending it. Part of what this means is lower court decisions, even if they are against Locast, are unlikely to shut it down until the case reaches the supreme court.

Locast is going to be around for a while.


----------



## markjrenna

Not meant to be negative or sarcastic... If I have a Roku, why do I need a TiVo streamer? Am I missing something?


----------



## jaselzer

1.) You are absolutely meaning to be both sarcastic and negative. There are 20+ pages in this thread devoted to discussing exactly the issue you are pretending not to be sarcastic about. Grow up.
2.) I sincerely doubt that there is one person in the world who "needs" a Tivo streamer or a Roku or a Firestick or nvidia shield or Apple TV, etc. The issue is not "need" but "want". So let's rephrase your question to "If I have a Roku, why do I "want" a Tivo streamer....?"

Perhaps it would help to watch this: TiVo Stream 4K - Coming soon

It is rather self-explanatory. If you are on these forums then you already know the answer to your allegedly non-sarcastic and non-negative question. If you or anybody else does not consider the addition of a integrated guide to be worth the purchase price, whether one has or does not have an existing streaming device, then the answer to your re-phrased question is: Perhaps you do not or will not WANT a Tivo 4K Streaming Device.


----------



## Puppy76

markjrenna said:


> Not meant to be negative or sarcastic... If I have a Roku, why do I need a TiVo streamer? Am I missing something?


You probably don't, unless they ever allow it to work as a TiVo mini type deal.

It does have the distinction of being the cheapest name brand android TV device though.


----------



## foghorn2

markjrenna said:


> Not meant to be negative or sarcastic... If I have a Roku, why do I need a TiVo streamer? Am I missing something?


because rokus are garbage, that's why


----------



## jaselzer

I do not think that Roku's are garbage, but I definitely think that the Tivo 4K Streaming Stick is looking pretty sweet. I would have preferred perhaps a couple of Live TV Streaming alternatives rather than just Sling, but if I am to consider "cutting the cord", my wife watches French TV5Monde which only Sling has as an extra package.


----------



## Puppy76

foghorn2 said:


> because rokus are garbage, that's why


how come? I'm trying to pick I've of them four main streaming platforms, so...


----------



## foghorn2

the future is andriod or ios, not whatever closed system roku is using. the firestick is better and cheaper and you can sideload andriod apps.


----------



## jaselzer

Fire: completely immerses you in the Amazon platform. If you gotta have Amazon then this is your choice. In my personal opinion, the Firestick is oddly complicated.
Roku: Just seems to work well and is agnostic as to platform.
Apple TV: More expensive but if you love everything Apple go for it.
Android(nvidia and upcoming Tivo): Works well, has it all and comfortable for those that are used to Android. The nvidia is also expensive but includes gaming if that is your thing.

In my opinion, they are all good. They all work well. Just make sure that whatever premium channels you might want such as HBO, etc. is available on your platform of choice.


----------



## jaselzer

foghorn2 said:


> the future is andriod or ios, not whatever closed system roku is using. the firestick is better and cheaper and you can sideload andriod apps.


Foghorn2 has a point. I am not sure I agree with his conclusion. However, he is right to bring it up as a consideration.


----------



## foghorn2

I agree that the firesticks are amazon content driven and cluttered, but the first row of apps/tiles is all i use as its my most recent. I think this tivo streamer would be better as i like the tivo look better. The integrated guide with sling would be nice with unification of prime and vudu


----------



## jaselzer

I feel the android based Tivo Streamer is very interesting. And unless something shows up to turn me off, I am definitely buying a couple.


----------



## aaronwt

foghorn2 said:


> because rokus are garbage, that's why


Since when? I've been using ROkus for nine years now. They have always performed great. And also give you access to a very wide variety of apps.

My only complaint is that they don't have a stand alone Roku with Dolby Vision. You need to use the internal ROku UI on a DV TV to have access to DV content.


----------



## foghorn2

I used Roku's back when they were network music streamers. The Rokus now cannot play any image files (iso) in any way shape or form, you cant install Kodi, you cant view internet webpage videos. You can do all this with the firestick and its cheaper and faster (4k version). Its so locked down, they are going to lock themselves out in the near future.

The Tivo stick can be better then the firestick. I hope!


----------



## NashGuy

trip1eX said:


> I was quoting just Blue or Orange not both with the $30/mo figure plus $5/mo for the dvr. I did think the combined price was $50/mo not $45/mo though. I said both Orange and Blue were the same price as YTTV.


Ah, gotcha. Sorry for the confusion. Just to clarify for anyone else reading this, Blue and Orange are each regularly priced at $30/mo while Blue+Orange is regularly priced at $45/mo. Any package is $10 off the first month. The expanded cloud DVR (50 hrs instead of 10) is an extra $5/mo added to any package.



trip1eX said:


> Another Sling niche or advantage is the number of add-on packages it has. Possible to get some channels that one can't get on other services or might cost more $$$ on other services.


Yes, Sling's genre-based add-on packs are an innovation that larger MVPDs are incorporating to some extent. I see Comcast doing this with their "More Sports & Entertainment" add-on pack. I've been predicting for a long while that AT&T TV will do something like this in conjunction with their new set of Plus and Max packages. By pushing less-popular channels off into small optional add-on packs that are priced at $5-10 each, they can keep the cost of their core packages down and give consumers a little more flexibility to customize the set of channels they wish to buy.


----------



## trip1eX

NashGuy said:


> Yes, Sling's genre-based add-on packs are an innovation that larger MVPDs are incorporating to some extent. I see Comcast doing this with their "More Sports & Entertainment" add-on pack. I've been predicting for a long while that AT&T TV will do something like this in conjunction with their new set of Plus and Max packages. By pushing less-popular channels off into small optional add-on packs that are priced at $5-10 each, they can keep the cost of their core packages down and give consumers a little more flexibility to customize the set of channels they wish to buy.


Yeah the loss of video subscribers has to be motivation for this direction.

btw, did you see the latest Comcast quarter. A loss of 149k video subs and the CEO saying they expect more video sub losses in 2020 than in 2019.


----------



## trip1eX

I got a tv with Roku and seemed pretty impressive. NIce guided setup. UI is clean and simple. Remote is simple. Works pretty good. Not as fast as my AtVs, but it's on a fairly cheap tv that I threw in the basement to replace my 60" plasma that went kaput. Come to think of it, the 55" tv wasn't much more than what ATVs sell for. $50 difference maybe lol.


----------



## foghorn2

One of my bedrooms is a roku tv, its wireless card caused random constant reboots, had to yank the card out, added a firestick and a mini, and its better than the built in Roku. Never looked back to Roku.

I used this Roku back in the day, it Rocked:


----------



## keenanSR

jcthorne said:


> Locast was built by a legal group using the exact model described by the Supreme Court as the only legal method for retransmission in the Aereo case. In order for Locast to be shut down, it would ultimately require the supreme court to reverse its prior decision and would also outlaw RF retransmission as well. Locast has a much stronger case than Aereo did and a legal precedent to support it. AND a much larger legal fund defending it. Part of what this means is lower court decisions, even if they are against Locast, are unlikely to shut it down until the case reaches the supreme court.
> 
> Locast is going to be around for a while.


They could very well be in the right but as is often the case in this country, it's not whether you're right or wrong but whether or not you can afford to make your case and apparently Locast is asking for donations to a legal defense fund. They've collected about $12,000 of the $500,000 they're asking for and that's not going to cut it against what the Big 4 nets can throw at the case. I hope Locast does stick around but to assume they will just because they have the right doesn't guarantee they will. Money is what wins in this country, not if you're right or wrong, sadly.

Cord Cutters: Protect your right to free local TV organized by Locast Admin


----------



## keenanSR

foghorn2 said:


> because rokus are garbage, that's why


You may believe them to be garbage but they are the largest selling, by a wide margin, streaming device in the country. And as far as closed systems, you can't get much more closed than iOS. Roku runs on a Linux variant.


----------



## aaronwt

foghorn2 said:


> I used Roku's back when they were network music streamers. The Rokus now cannot play any image files (iso) in any way shape or form, you cant install Kodi, you cant view internet webpage videos. You can do all this with the firestick and its cheaper and faster (4k version). Its so locked down, they are going to lock themselves out in the near future.
> 
> The Tivo stick can be better then the firestick. I hope!


I use my Nvidia Shield TVs if I want to play an ISO. Or I use my old Popcorn Hour VTEN, A400, or C200 players. Or an old Netgear NTV550 for ISO playback. Although only my VTEN can handle UHD ISOs(but only SDR). Which is why my Shields are used mostly now since it can handle the UHD BD ISOs and HDR10.

With UHD content I switched to MKVs and use my Shields for playback of UHD/HDR. Although I do keep a ISO of the UHD BD, just in case I want to access any extra content.


----------



## shwru980r

markjrenna said:


> Not meant to be negative or sarcastic... If I have a Roku, why do I need a TiVo streamer? Am I missing something?


My understanding is that the Tivo streamer will offer the Tivo unified search capabilities that are currently available on their legacy DVRs with the exception of the ability to search the content of a legacy Tivo DVR. Instead you would need to purchase a cloud DVR service from Sling which would be integrated into the unified search.


----------



## NashGuy

trip1eX said:


> Yeah the loss of video subscribers has to be motivation for this direction.
> 
> btw, did you see the latest Comcast quarter. A loss of 149k video subs and the CEO saying they expect more video sub losses in 2020 than in 2019.


Yup. Here's a good analysis of the situation there at Comcast (and also at AT&T):
Comcast Expects More Customers to Cut the Cord in 2020 | The Motley Fool


----------



## trip1eX

NashGuy said:


> Yup. Here's a good analysis of the situation there at Comcast (and also at AT&T):
> Comcast Expects More Customers to Cut the Cord in 2020 | The Motley Fool


Yep it was all in the conference call. Doing the same thing Directv said they were doing. Stop chasing the cheap customer. Treat cable like a premium service. Although you hear these guys say that but then you still hear about deals to be had.

Also I think they are still in a bit of denial. They still hope that including Peacock with cable lets them charge more money for cable or at not give out discounts like before and that this has a hope of succeeding in the long run. It's just a bit weird in that, Peacock is basically just content you are already paying for anyway if you have a cable sub. There's little value add there. I mean I guess it will some original series but if you have cable I don't think one exactly notices a few extra original series. I Mean what are you paying for if you need this other service to give you a few extra original series? You have 100 channels at least.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

foghorn2 said:


> I used this Roku back in the day, it Rocked:


Wow! Classic mid-Aughts music streamer. Interesting that they didn't support FLAC then, and they still don't support it well now. That's one reason I gave up on Roku (the other being that time their network failed during the Mayweather-McGregor fight). The music streaming is all LMS/Squeezebox here now.


----------



## foghorn2

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Wow! Classic mid-Aughts music streamer. Interesting that they didn't support FLAC then, and they still don't support it well now. That's one reason I gave up on Roku (the other being that time their network failed during the Mayweather-McGregor fight). The music streaming is all LMS/Squeezebox here now.


Yes I have the LMS on a netgear nas and Squeezeboxes, no need to pay for streaming music indefinitely, own my own music.

before all that I had a Netgear MP101 served via Twonkyvision running in a Win/Dos session on a OS/2 Server


----------



## Puppy76

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Wow! Classic mid-Aughts music streamer. Interesting that they didn't support FLAC then, and they still don't support it well now. That's one reason I gave up on Roku (the other being that time their network failed during the Mayweather-McGregor fight). The music streaming is all LMS/Squeezebox here now.


Was that a speaker? It's neat looking! I wasn't aware they did that.

They currently have a sound bar that's also a Roku that sounds like a pretty good product, that I'm tempted by. Still no hdr10+ though!


----------



## markjrenna

Yeah. That is what would make it worth it.



Puppy76 said:


> You probably don't, unless they ever allow it to work as a TiVo mini type deal.
> 
> It does have the distinction of being the cheapest name brand android TV device though.


----------



## thyname

shwru980r said:


> My understanding is that the Tivo streamer will offer the Tivo unified search capabilities that are currently available on their legacy DVRs with the exception of the ability to search the content of a legacy Tivo DVR. Instead you would need to purchase a cloud DVR service from Sling which would be integrated into the unified search.


So Sling TV will have the TiVo Guide and user interface? Just like the TiVo guide on Tivo DVRs? If that's true, now that's interesting


----------



## MileHigh96

Puppy76 said:


> how come? I'm trying to pick I've of them four main streaming platforms, so...


Roku isn't garbage, I have 4 of them and they work awesome. I would recommend them without hesitation.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

Puppy76 said:


> Was that a speaker? It's neat looking! I wasn't aware they did that.
> 
> They currently have a sound bar that's also a Roku that sounds like a pretty good product, that I'm tempted by. Still no hdr10+ though!


It seems to me there have been two companies called Roku started by the same guy, or at least two distinct phases of the same company, one before and one after Netflix hired and funded him in 2007/2008. The first company made consumer music streamers and image servers.

The SoundBridge shown above did not include speakers, but there was another model that did. The original Roku music products competed with the Squeezebox line from Slim Devices, which was eventually bought by Logitech and remains a favorite of audiophiles who like to tinker with their tech.


----------



## krkaufman

trip1eX said:


> Treat cable like a premium service.


They're charging a premium price, but the video quality, what with increased compression & decreased bitrates, certainly doesn't seem premium.



trip1eX said:


> It's just a bit weird in that, Peacock is basically just content you are already paying for anyway if you have a cable sub.


And should all already be available via the on-demand library.


----------



## jaselzer

OMG, I had completely forgotten about Squeezebox and those Roku network music players. They were pretty innovative back then and I loved how they worked. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jaselzer

thyname said:


> So Sling TV will have the TiVo Guide and user interface? Just like the TiVo guide on Tivo DVRs? If that's true, now that's interesting


I don't think that's the way it will work. Rather, the TiVo 4K streaming device will have a TiVo like guide interface that will incorporate sling TVs content as well as your recordings on Sling TV as well as other streaming apps that are available from Google Play

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

jaselzer said:


> OMG, I had completely forgotten about Squeezebox and those Roku network music players. They were pretty innovative back then and I loved how they worked.


The Roku players are gone but Squeezebox is still around in software form, much of it open source, along with many surviving hardware units like the Squeezebox Touch. There's a thriving community of LMS users our there, and Logitech still devotes one full-time developer to supporting us. With firmware and software upgrades plus add-ons like external DACs, it's possible to create LMS systems rivaling anything you can build around Roon, Audirvana, JRiver, etc. at a much lower cost. I use mine every day to play ripped CDs, Tidal, Qobuz, Radio Paradise, and more.


----------



## foghorn2

maybe someday we can do all this with tivo dvrs.. since tivo does not want to be in the hardware business


----------



## slowbiscuit

Puppy76 said:


> how come? I'm trying to pick I've of them four main streaming platforms, so...


Just ignore him, anything he doesn't like is 'garbage'.


----------



## srazook

I'm in Houston, one of the 17 cities Locast has local streaming channels, and it works very well. It would be great if TiVo could incorporate it into the UI on it's OTA devices or the upcoming 4k Streaming device.


----------



## Narkul

slowbiscuit said:


> Just ignore him, anything he doesn't like is 'garbage'.


He's a little obsessed with Kodi, so if it doesn't run Kodi, it's garbage. My refrigerator's cooling platform doesn't run Kodi, so I guess it's garbage, although it does a good job keeping food cold.


----------



## foghorn2

Even VLC can play stuff Plex/Roku cant.
VLC is awesome!

This new Andriod Tivo stick will far surpass Plex/Roku ability to play content.


----------



## dlfl

jaselzer said:


> Foghorn2 has a point. I am not sure I agree with his conclusion. However, he is right to bring it up as a consideration.


Agreed.


foghorn2 said:


> because rokus are garbage, that's why


Now _that's_ the way to "bring it up as a consideration".


----------



## foghorn2

You can buy Android 10's TV ADT-3 Developer Kit for $79 - 9to5Google

^ this seems to be the same harware as the AirTV Mini, will this be similar to TiVo Stream 4K ?

They should shape the device to look like the TiVo mascot. Two wires coming off the top .


----------



## Puppy76

foghorn2 said:


> Even VLC can play stuff Plex/Roku cant.
> VLC is awesome!
> 
> This new Andriod Tivo stick will far surpass Plex/Roku ability to play content.


But is VLC doesn't seem to be available for AndroidTV. It's available for Android, but that's not the same thing. SOMEONE has released something called VLC for FireTV, but whatever it is it's not actually from the VLC people. They make an AppleTV port, but that seems to be the only streaming box port, and I wouldn't trust some dubious port from who-knows-who.

EDIT: Nevermind, the official Android port DOES say it supports AndroidTV. So AndroidTV I guess, and AppleTV do have real VLC.

ROKU though has a program from RoKu that does DLNC.

FireTV doesn't seem to have a great way to play local content, for me at least, while AppleTV and Roku (and Xbox One) do.


----------



## foghorn2

Puppy76 said:


> But is VLC doesn't seem to be available for AndroidTV. It's available for Android, but that's not the same thing. SOMEONE has released something called VLC for FireTV, but whatever it is it's not actually from the VLC people. They make an AppleTV port, but that seems to be the only streaming box port, and I wouldn't trust some dubious port from who-knows-who.
> 
> EDIT: Nevermind, the official Android port DOES say it supports AndroidTV. So AndroidTV I guess, and AppleTV do have real VLC.
> 
> ROKU though has a program from RoKu that does DLNC.
> 
> FireTV doesn't seem to have a great way to play local content, for me at least, while AppleTV and Roku (and Xbox One) do.


If you sideload Kodi on the firestick, it makes a perfect local streamer, I never use it to stream off the internet. It plays every type of file I throw at it flawlessly and quickly. No need for a server app, just local or network shares. It will search and tile the videos too. The 4k version will do a decent job with mpeg2 and deinterlacing, not a good as a pc with a good video card, but it has enough horsepower to do it in software.

I have the TiVo stream (original encoder for streaming). It still works with the Fire Tablet App to stream.

I not sure why TiVo cant make this new stick work as a mini Tivo Mini Lite. The Bolts and upper end Roamios already have the hardware and they can mass produce the stream streamer for 4 tuner roamio owners.


----------



## EWiser

AirTV2

AirTV 2 review: Antenna TV and Sling TV merge, with mixed results


----------



## foghorn2

EWiser said:


> AirTV2
> 
> AirTV 2 review: Antenna TV and Sling TV merge, with mixed results


a very accurate review, a good product but half baked, could use some tivofication.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

We can only hope for some tivofication. As-is, it will be an embarrassment to see the TiVo brand on anything like that.

Edit: "it will an..." → "it will *be *an..."​


----------



## trip1eX

foghorn2 said:


> a very accurate review, a good product but half baked, could use some tivofication.


is this what you use with Sling?


----------



## foghorn2

trip1eX said:


> is this what you use with Sling?


Yes, but I have the V1 thats looks like a slingbox, its the same thing without the AC wifi.

I got it cheap and use it to see locals channels in the guide. I attached a 64gb usb drive and now have 10hr DVR, I just use it for timeshifting. I still have the Romaios that used to be on cable now OTA DVR with tons of cable content still on them. But even with the drawbacks of the Air Tv Tuner, I still use it more than the roamios. Eventually the roamios will go away.

Now if the new TiVo stick could access those recordings, that would be awesome! No need to change remotes and the new Tivo Stream 4k mini remote would be very similar.


----------



## mdavej

foghorn2 said:


> Now if the new TiVo stick could access those recordings, that would be awesome! No need to change remotes and the new Tivo Stream 4k mini remote would be very similar.


Amen to that. I'd buy several of these Tivo sticks on launch day if they could stream my Tivo recordings, and I'd immediately put my Recasts on ebay.


----------



## Mikeguy

Pokemon_Dad said:


> We can only hope for some tivofication. As-is, it will be an embarrassment to see the TiVo brand on anything like that.


Like TiVo+?


----------



## Mikeguy

mdavej said:


> Amen to that. I'd buy several of these Tivo sticks on launch day if they could stream my Tivo recordings, and I'd immediately put my Recasts on ebay.


And so, you want a (lower-cost) alternative to the TiVo Mini, or is it the omni-streaming (both local TiVo box shows and the general streaming world) aspect that you would like to see?


----------



## tiv0 newbie

Mikeguy said:


> And so, you want a (lower-cost) alternative to the TiVo Mini, or is it the omni-streaming (both local TiVo box shows and the general streaming world) aspect that you would like to see?


I would like to chime in on this issue if I may. I would like a lower cost alternative to the current $180 version, but I am happy to pay that full price for a tivo mini running android with access to more apps that will continue to be updated because they are android based.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mdavej

Mikeguy said:


> And so, you want a (lower-cost) alternative to the TiVo Mini, or is it the omni-streaming (both local TiVo box shows and the general streaming world) aspect that you would like to see?


Omni:


tiv0 newbie said:


> I would like to chime in on this issue if I may. I would like a lower cost alternative to the current $180 version, but I am happy to pay that full price for a tivo mini running android with access to more apps that will continue to be updated because they are android based.


I already have Tivos and a Mini in every room, so I'd actually prefer to keep what I've got without spending another 50 bucks on every room. But what I've got won't stream OTT services. If it did, I'd be happy.

The alternative would be to let me stream Tivo recordings/liveTV on a streaming device. That way I satisfy my ultimate goal of omni-streaming, plus keep all my Tivo functionality.

Unfortunately this device doesn't deliver that. It's just the same as the Fire sticks I already have which also lack Tivo integration. The only attraction for a Tivo user is the interface will supposedly look like Hydra. Problem is, I don't really care if the interface looks like Tivo or not, I care about integration.


----------



## Dan203

mdavej said:


> Problem is, I don't really care if the interface looks like Tivo or not, I care about integration.


Same. Only compelling thing about this TiVo box is the remote. I like the way it looks and the familiarity. The remotes that come with the 3 major streamers are all kinda sh*tty. Some are worse then others, but none are very well designed.


----------



## Mikeguy

mdavej said:


> The alternative would be to let me stream Tivo recordings/liveTV on a streaming device. That way I satisfy my ultimate goal of omni-streaming, plus keep all my Tivo functionality.
> 
> Unfortunately this device doesn't deliver that.


Well, _yet_.


> I would like to see more integration between our existing TiVo platform and TiVo Stream 4k, but at least initially it will be separate.


Update given to me from Dave Shull, CEO of TiVo


----------



## mdavej

Mikeguy said:


> Well, _yet_.
> 
> Update given to me from Dave Shull, CEO of TiVo


I give this as much hope as the Tivo app for Firestick that we never got. I abandoned the Tivo platform and moved on to other things more than a year ago. If this integration ever actually happens, it will be years away, and I will have moved on to an ATSC 3.0 based system by then. So it's already too late for this customer.


----------



## moyekj

I'm very skeptical about this supposed integration. How many years has it been with OnePasses with supposed good integration to streaming titles and TiVo still can't even get that right. I have zero confidence they will improve on that with this device, so you will need to wait weeks (if you are lucky) after a new streaming season becomes available somewhere before you can even find it using the TiVo interface.


----------



## Mikeguy

moyekj said:


> I'm very skeptical about this supposed integration. *How many years has it been with OnePasses with supposed good integration to streaming titles and TiVo still can't even get that right. *I have zero confidence they will improve on that with this device, so you will need to wait weeks (if you are lucky) after a new streaming season becomes available somewhere before you can even find it using the TiVo interface.


This is exactly what I was going to say--see OnePass.  (I hope y'all could tell that I was being_ way_ facetious, earlier, as to any great probability of Mr. Shull's "like" for the future. But I'd love for matters to prove otherwise.)


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

Mikeguy said:


> Like TiVo+?


The DVR features alone are extremely primitive. If the Stream 4K only puts a unified TiVo-like front end on what's described in that review, that will be just like putting lipstick on a pig. It will still be a pig, and not worthy of whatever brand equity TiVo has left. And TiVo Plus? In this metaphor that's just pig fodder.


----------



## Puppy76

Mikeguy said:


> Like TiVo+?


for me that's not an embarrassment, just not useful. I could see it getting solid, as there's a bunch of really strong ad supported streaming stuff now, though I'd need it "on demand" and I guess Tivo plus isn't.



Dan203 said:


> Same. Only compelling thing about this TiVo box is the remote. I like the way it looks and the familiarity. The remotes that come with the 3 major streamers are all kinda sh*tty. Some are worse then others, but none are very well designed.


I liked the firetv remote quite a lot, first gen at least, and the Roku one okay. Obviously the Tivo remote is great, though for this it looks like maybe it has too many buttons? Like these streaming boxes really don't need much, so long as they have a way to jump back, which firetv did just with a back press, and Roku has a dedicated button for.


----------



## foghorn2

Too many buttons on the new streamer? NO! I use the firestick with Sling and wish I had more buttons. Esp channel up and down which I cant do at all directly and takes 3-4 button presses to do the equivalent.


----------



## Puppy76

foghorn2 said:


> Too many buttons on the new streamer? NO! I use the firestick with Sling and wish I had more buttons. Esp channel up and down which I cant do at all directly and takes 3-4 button presses to do the equivalent.


I don't remember that being bad on PlayStation Vue when I used it a couple of months on a fire tv, but that's a good thought I hadn't had. I don't really flip through channels which is maybe why I didn't have an issue (I can't remember) but yeah, channel buttons would make sense!

the Android tv apps would have to support them though, and who knows if they would.


----------



## Dan203

Puppy76 said:


> I don't remember that being bad on PlayStation Vue when I used it a couple of months on a fire tv, but that's a good thought I hadn't had. I don't really flip through channels which is maybe why I didn't have an issue (I can't remember) but yeah, channel buttons would make sense!
> 
> the Android tv apps would have to support them though, and who knows if they would.


They might for their keyboards, which will make it easier to search or enter your password that has numbers in it.


----------



## NashGuy

Dan203 said:


> Same. Only compelling thing about this TiVo box is the remote. I like the way it looks and the familiarity. The remotes that come with the 3 major streamers are all kinda sh*tty. Some are worse then others, but none are very well designed.


Behold the very many buttons on the remote that comes with AT&T TV's Android TV box. (Batteries included!)


----------



## Dan203

NashGuy said:


> Behold the very many buttons on the remote that comes with AT&T TV's Android TV box. (Batteries included!)
> 
> View attachment 46060


It's not the number of buttons, it's the familiar shape and placement of the buttons on the TiVo remote


----------



## NashGuy

Dan203 said:


> It's not the number of buttons, it's the familiar shape and placement of the buttons on the TiVo remote


Sure, if you're one of the few folks who've been using a TiVo for years. But there are a whole lot more non-TiVo folks who come from other cable boxes/DVRs who, I think, would generally prefer any full-featured remote customized for channel-based TV if that's what they intend to access with a streaming device. They don't care about the peanut shape but rather the presence of channel up/down, 0-9 buttons, mute, etc. I think both the TiVo Stream 4K as well as the AT&T TV box will be playing to that preference.


----------



## Puppy76

Dan203 said:


> It's not the number of buttons, it's the familiar shape and placement of the buttons on the TiVo remote


I just sort of accept it now, but wow was the TiVo remote a revelation back in 2004ish when I first used it. I still can't believe how weird and bloated so many remotes are, like they didn't think things through at all.

I seemed to like the Roku and FireTV remotes pretty well though, from what I remember! (My Roku was just defective, and I didn't return it fast enough because at first I thought it was the OS, and the crashes weren't super frequent, but it kept getting worse and worse...the firetv I tossed after they turned on pairing mode 24/7)


----------



## Dan203

Puppy76 said:


> I just sort of accept it now, but wow was the TiVo remote a revelation back in 2004ish when I first used it. I still can't believe how weird and bloated so many remotes are, like they didn't think things through at all.


The funny thing is I used a Harmony remote for years. It was the peanut shaped one that was kind of TiVo like but had way more buttons and a screen. When it died I started using a slide pro, which is actually quite small compared to the normal TiVo remote. The remote for thing looks to be a similar size to the slide pro, just not as thick.


----------



## Mikeguy

Dan203 said:


> It's not the number of buttons, it's the familiar shape and placement of the buttons on the TiVo remote


It's a bit shocking to me, given TiVo's penchant for throwing successes out the door, that TiVo is using the tried-and-true, award-winning peanut remote design and is not replacing it with an inverse. 


NashGuy said:


> Sure, if you're one of the few folks who've been using a TiVo for years. But there are a whole lot more non-TiVo folks who come from other cable boxes/DVRs who, I think, would generally prefer any full-featured remote customized for channel-based TV if that's what they intend to access with a streaming device. They don't care about the peanut shape but rather the presence of channel up/down, 0-9 buttons, mute, etc. I think both the TiVo Stream 4K as well as the AT&T TV box will be playing to that preference.


And the good news is, the TiVo peanut design can do precisely that.


----------



## NashGuy

Mikeguy said:


> And the good news is, the TiVo peanut design can do precisely that.


Yeah. Although, for now anyway, the only channel-based service that the TiVo Stream 4K can natively interface with is Sling. Are there really that many Sling subscribers who are going to buy this TiVo Android TV device over Sling's own AirTV Mini Android TV device so that they can use those 0-9 buttons? (Actually, do we know yet if the TiVo grid guide will assign channel number to the Sling channels? They normally don't have any.)

I'm also skeptical of TiVo's ability to get other vMVPDs to opt into the TiVo native UI, other than Philo (which has already done so with the Fire TV UI). I'm doubtful YouTube TV will (although it's quite possible that that app will respond to the channel up and down buttons on TiVo's remote; it already does that with certain smart TVs). Equally doubtful that Hulu Live or AT&T TV will partner with TiVo in that way either. Maybe Fubo TV will? (Although I wouldn't at all be surprised if they followed PS Vue into the vMVPD graveyard this year.)


----------



## Narkul

NashGuy said:


> Behold the very many buttons on the remote that comes with AT&T TV's Android TV box. (Batteries included!)
> 
> View attachment 46060


One of the biggest things Tivo gets right is the large easy to hit navigation buttons absent on this and most streamer remotes. Trying to navigate these streamers in a dark movie room atmosphere is a nightmare with these crappy remotes.


----------



## BillyClyde

NashGuy said:


> .....I'm also skeptical of TiVo's ability to get other vMVPDs to opt into the TiVo native UI, *other than Philo (which has already done so with the Fire TV UI)*. .........


Can you elaborate on this please? Does Philo use the TiVo UI on FireTV???


----------



## mdavej

BillyClyde said:


> Can you elaborate on this please? Does Philo use the TiVo UI on FireTV???


Philo is integrated into the Recast DVR UI on Fire TV. I think the point of the post was that only one vMVPD has opted in to another app's UI. But this isn't strictly the case. Pluto is also integrated into the Fire TV DVR app, and Sling will be integrated into Tivo's UI on Tivo's forthcoming Android TV dongle.


----------



## BillyClyde

mdavej said:


> Philo is integrated into the Recast DVR UI on Fire TV. I think the point of the post was that only one vMVPD has opted in to another app's UI. But this isn't strictly the case. Pluto is also integrated into the Fire TV DVR app, and Sling will be integrated into Tivo's UI on Tivo's forthcoming Android TV dongle.


Oh, so he was talking about how Philo is integrated into the Recast Guide, the same way they did with Vue (while it was still alive anyway)? It didn't sound that way with how and what he wrote, but maybe I'm reading it wrong, idk. Thanks!


----------



## NashGuy

BillyClyde said:


> Can you elaborate on this please? Does Philo use the TiVo UI on FireTV???





mdavej said:


> Philo is integrated into the Recast DVR UI on Fire TV. I think the point of the post was that only one vMVPD has opted in to another app's UI. But this isn't strictly the case. Pluto is also integrated into the Fire TV DVR app, and Sling will be integrated into Tivo's UI on Tivo's forthcoming Android TV dongle.


The Fire TV UI includes a live channel grid guide. You don't have to use a Recast to get that guide. Several sources feed into the guide:


streaming channels that may come with your Prime Video Channels subscriptions (e.g. HBO, HBO 2, HBO Family, etc.)
OTA channels that come from either your TV's built-in tuner (if the TV runs Fire TV as its smart OS) or from Amazon's Recast DVR
streaming channels from various third-party services that have opted into the Fire TV grid guide, including Philo, Sling, and Pluto TV. (PS Vue also did, but they're now defunct.)

I had forgotten about Pluto TV working with the Fire TV grid guide, although that isn't a surprise given that they had opted into Google's native Live Channels grid guide on Android TV years ago.

My point is that it's really only the small, hungry players like those above who are likely to allow their live streaming channels flow into another company's UI rather than restricting them to their own app's native UI. Given that TiVo+ is a competitor to Pluto TV, I kinda doubt that they'll opt into TiVo's channel grid guide on the TiVo Stream 4K. But I can see Philo doing so, given that they already do with Fire TV. Maybe we'll see other small players like Fubo TV or the fledgling Vidgo do the same. But, as I say, I'll be surprised if the big boys like Hulu Live, YouTube TV, AT&T TV, or Amazon's Prime Video Channels opt into TiVo's guide.


----------



## NashGuy

Narkul said:


> One of the biggest things Tivo gets right is the large easy to hit navigation buttons absent on this and most streamer remotes. Trying to navigate these streamers in a dark movie room atmosphere is a nightmare with these crappy remotes.


True. Although at least the remote for the AT&T TV streaming box (which I pictured above) has backlit buttons. If I'm going to use one of those bigger remotes with lots of buttons (which really are, IMO, best if you're controlling live cable TV+DVR), then I want it to be backlit. I loved that about my Harmony remote. (Now I just watch everything through my Apple TV 4K and only use its remote.)


----------



## foghorn2

Yesterday I received the AirTv Mini- the Tivo sticks older brother. It is so much nicer than using the firestick.

The remote is a bit bigger and fatter, easier to hold for us guys with big hands.
The remote has a guide button, takes you directly to grid, and if you have the airtv tuner, your locals are there too
The remote controls the tv AND receiver

The Andriod Tv interface is nicely layed out, unlike the Firetvs
Slings recordings are right there, along with recently viewed from VuDu
YouTube subscriptions are on the front page too.

Everything I need is right there and working, no sideloading
Kodi works perfect:
If you enable the hardware decoding, this device will hardware decode MPEG2 and de-interlace.
It does an excellent job with MPEG2, not as good as a HTPC, but better than the Firestick.
With the firestick you have to disable hardware decoding for mpeg2 to force software decoding/de-interlacing, and this is were the firestick is literally on fire, getting hot and eventually slowing down and wearing out.

Tivo has a opportunity to make all this better and hit it out of the ballpark. The airtv mini remote does not have channel up and down, the Tivo remote will- along with more buttons. Tivo could really bring us a unified guide and experience with all the other streaming apps.
If Tivo could allow steaming from their DVR's, that would be icing on the cake. I know it can work, it works with fire tablets and the Tivo Stream with 4 tuner Roamios and Bolts already.


----------



## Mabes

Been reading through this thread and other articles and I'm not quite sure what it will do and what it is thought it will do. 

Currently have a Roku Express and am trying to decide if I want to get this. I have no cable, just got a 4k TV. No Sling and for some reason in this apartment I can't get much reception with an HDTV antenna 

I see there is a My Shows icon. If I press that will I see my watchlists from Amazon, Netflix and Hulu (hopefully PBS Passport) all on one page? Or will I then hit another icon for each app and see those shows?

Picture quality. Will it be better than the Roku, and if so will that be the case for all content, or just 4k content? 

If both, I will definitely get one. If only the first one, I probably will. Right now, on my Harmony, for Amazon for example, I press the Amazon button, go up to the top and then right to Watchlist, and often I found out that the show I want is on Netflx or Hulu so I have to start over.


----------



## cybergrimes

Peanut remote has me buying this for our secondary TV, not sure it'll replace my Nvidia Shield with Harmony in the main viewing area but happy to get a peanut back in the house.


----------



## blacknoi

I have an AT&T Osprey box (3 of them actually) and have learned the remote by touch. While not quite as well laid out as Tivo, I can now perform 90% of my usage sans looking. So I'll consider that a win. They even have automatic back lighting in dark rooms so you can see the buttons.

For me on the Tivo stick, I'm slightly confused by no actual dedicated fastforward / rewind buttons. I get the directonal pad is suposed to be somewhat universal given whatever UI you are using, but universal is not dedicated and therefore will make use-by-touch less capable.


----------



## jzinckgra

So when is the Tivo streamer launching?


----------



## mdavej

jzinckgra said:


> So when is the Tivo streamer launching?


"Soon". Translation: next month or quarter or year or decade or never


----------



## BillyClyde

jzinckgra said:


> So when is the Tivo streamer launching?





mdavej said:


> "Soon". Translation: next month or quarter or year or decade or never


It was announced to be released in April of this year.


----------



## cybergrimes

blacknoi said:


> I have an AT&T Osprey box (3 of them actually) and have learned the remote by touch. While not quite as well laid out as Tivo, I can now perform 90% of my usage sans looking. So I'll consider that a win. They even have automatic back lighting in dark rooms so you can see the buttons.
> 
> For me on the Tivo stick, I'm slightly confused by no actual dedicated fastforward / rewind buttons. I get the directonal pad is suposed to be somewhat universal given whatever UI you are using, but universal is not dedicated and therefore will make use-by-touch less capable.


I don't know, I use the Harmony with my Shield and a few apps don't like the dedicated pause/play button. They don't do anything, have to go with the enter/select in middle of navigation buttons like you would on the OEM remote. TiVo can't control the apps that don't use dedicated buttons so maybe best not to include?


----------



## NashGuy

blacknoi said:


> I have an AT&T Osprey box (3 of them actually) and have learned the remote by touch. While not quite as well laid out as Tivo, I can now perform 90% of my usage sans looking. So I'll consider that a win. They even have automatic back lighting in dark rooms so you can see the buttons.


Yeah, the remote for the Osprey box looks nice. I'd say it's an easy transition for someone coming from the DirecTV Genie remote (and I'm sure that's not accidental). If I were going to subscribe to a cable TV service like AT&T TV and spend most of my TV viewing time using it, I'd want to use a remote like this that's custom-designed for that service. Click one button to record. Click one button to see the channel guide. Click one button to see your list of DVR recordings. Click one button to see your list of apps. Channel up/down button. Last channel button. Et cetera.

Using the typical streaming device mini-remote with only a few buttons means having to do more navigating through the UI to get things done.

What's your general review of how the Osprey box works these days in conjunction with the AT&T TV Now service?



blacknoi said:


> For me on the Tivo stick, I'm slightly confused by no actual dedicated fastforward / rewind buttons. I get the directonal pad is suposed to be somewhat universal given whatever UI you are using, but universal is not dedicated and therefore will make use-by-touch less capable.


Yeah. What your describing seems to be the default way that Google intends Android TV UIs and remotes to work, though. See their latest Android TV device for developers here:
You can buy Android 10's TV ADT-3 Developer Kit for $79 - 9to5Google

Now, that said, it is possible for an Android TV device's remote to include dedicated FF and rewind buttons. The Nvidia Shield TV and AirTV Mini remotes both do, although neither the Mi Box S or Jetstream remotes do. (And at that point, we've pretty much gone through all the noteworthy Android TV devices available in the US.)


----------



## b_scott

this is a weird move. It confuses the brand, won't be better than FireTV, etc, and is probably a move to eventually sell their own streaming service and phase out cable DVRs.


----------



## omelet1978

I decided to try SlingTv with the $5 a month 50 DVR for a bit since Tivo is releasing the Tivo Stream which works with the service. 

It's been a while but I seriously hope Tivo can work some of it's magic on SlingTv since it really just comes across as this bare-bones tv service. Even though I have the DVR package I can't pause live tv, don't have many options with the DVR to manage the space.

We'll just see what Tivo can come up with when the Tivo Stream is released. I say that with the caveat that Tivo's initial releases don't seem to go very well and usually are pretty buggy but here is hoping this is an exception.


----------



## mattyro7878

Puppy76 said:


> I just sort of accept it now, but wow was the TiVo remote a revelation back in 2004ish when I first used it. I still can't believe how weird and bloated so many remotes are, like they didn't think things through at all.
> 
> I seemed to like the Roku and FireTV remotes pretty well though, from what I remember! (My Roku was just defective, and I didn't return it fast enough because at first I thought it was the OS, and the crashes weren't super frequent, but it kept getting worse and worse...the firetv I tossed after they turned on pairing mode 24/7)


Tell me about pairing mode...what is it?


----------



## tapokata

omelet1978 said:


> It's been a while but I seriously hope Tivo can work some of it's magic on SlingTv since it really just comes across as this bare-bones tv service. Even though I have the DVR package I can't pause live tv, don't have many options with the DVR to manage the space.
> 
> We'll just see what Tivo can come up with when the Tivo Stream is released.


Other than guide integration, I have strong doubts about TiVo working any "magic" on SlingTV. Sling's cloud DVR is pretty bad, but to be fair, so are the DVR offerings from other OTT services (looking at you, HULU). This new box is a bit of an odd-duck for TiVo, in that it doesn't start out as a traditional DVR, and won't play with any other TiVo system hardware. Yeah, Rovi/Tivo has expressed a desire to get out of the hardware business, but this product seems to be targeted to compete in a market space that's already dominated by Roku and FireTV.

I'm a SLING customer, too- if only because $25 per month is the cheapest access I have to regional sports channels.

I would have much rather seen a streaming box that extended TiVo's DVR systems, while playing well with OTT apps such as SlingTV. But then I've always wanted ice cream before my dinner, too.

In the announced configuration and format, I don't see this streaming box as being viable in the long term.


----------



## NashGuy

tapokata said:


> Other than guide integration, I have strong doubts about TiVo working any "magic" on SlingTV. Sling's cloud DVR is pretty bad, but to be fair, so are the DVR offerings from other OTT services (looking at you, HULU).


Well, if you pay an additional $10 to upgrade to Hulu's "enhanced" cloud DVR, it doesn't sound bad. You go from 50 to 200 hours of storage, recordings never expire (AFAIK), and you can then FF through ads.

Sling is really just for folks who are OK with a compromised cable TV service -- mainly those who only need certain sports channels, I would bet -- in exchange for the lowest possible price.



tapokata said:


> This new box is a bit of an odd-duck for TiVo, in that it doesn't start out as a traditional DVR, and won't play with any other TiVo system hardware. Yeah, Rovi/Tivo has expressed a desire to get out of the hardware business, but this product seems to be targeted to compete in a market space that's already dominated by Roku and FireTV.


Yep. And that's the really tough thing for the TiVo Stream 4K. It looks like a nice product but it's entering a market that's already pretty mature and the main differentiator it will have going for it is the TiVo app that tries to integrate content from across popular streaming services. But I'm skeptical that that feature (and the power of the TiVo brand) will be enough for it to succeed. We'll see...


----------



## lparsons21

NashGuy said:


> Well, if you pay an additional $10 to upgrade to Hulu's "enhanced" cloud DVR, it doesn't sound bad. You go from 50 to 200 hours of storage, recordings never expire (AFAIK), and you can then FF through ads.
> 
> Sling is really just for folks who are OK with a compromised cable TV service -- mainly those who only need certain sports channels, I would bet -- in exchange for the lowest possible price.


I think that Hulu's total price for no ads and enhanced DVR is about $70. That's a bit on the high side.

Sling is very good to fill some holes for those willing to use multiple apps. I use it to fill in those things missing from Hulu basic no ads + CBS All Access. Most of the popular cable channels are on Sling and some sports as you note. Total cost to do it that way is about $57.


----------



## NashGuy

lparsons21 said:


> I think that Hulu's total price for no ads and enhanced DVR is about $70. That's a bit on the high side.


OK, although I wasn't talking about the price. Just pointing out that a cloud DVR can be high-quality/full-featured if you're willing to pay for one like that. (And actually, the base cost of Hulu with Live TV is $55. The enhanced cloud DVR add-on is an extra $10. If you also want to remove ads from the on-demand library, that's another $6.)



lparsons21 said:


> Sling is very good to fill some holes for those willing to use multiple apps. I use it to fill in those things missing from Hulu basic no ads + CBS All Access. Most of the popular cable channels are on Sling and some sports as you note. Total cost to do it that way is about $57.


Right. In my words, Sling is a "compromised cable TV service". In your words, it exists to "fill some holes". Same idea, just different ways of putting it. There are very few people who would be satisfied using *only* Sling without also using other apps and/or OTA TV. (BTW, DISH just announced their 4Q results. Sling saw a net decline in subscribers for the first quarter ever. Down 94k subs while DISH satellite lost 100k.)


----------



## aaronwt

NashGuy said:


> Well, if you pay an additional $10 to upgrade to Hulu's "enhanced" cloud DVR, it doesn't sound bad. You go from 50 to 200 hours of storage, recordings never expire (AFAIK), and you can then FF through ads.
> 
> Sling is really just for folks who are OK with a compromised cable TV service -- mainly those who only need certain sports channels, I would bet -- in exchange for the lowest possible price.
> 
> Yep. And that's the really tough thing for the TiVo Stream 4K. It looks like a nice product but it's entering a market that's already pretty mature and the main differentiator it will have going for it is the TiVo app that tries to integrate content from across popular streaming services. But I'm skeptical that that feature (and the power of the TiVo brand) will be enough for it to succeed. We'll see...


But the video quality from Sling and all all broadcast streamers is much better than what FiOS or Comcast has. The bad video quality from FiOS was the main reason I switched to watching most of my broadcast content from streaming services. The lower price I pay each month was just a bonus.

Sent from my Galaxy S10


----------



## NashGuy

aaronwt said:


> But the video quality from Sling and all all broadcast streamers is much better than what FiOS or Comcast has. The bad video quality from FiOS was the main reason I switched to watching most of my broadcast content from streaming services. The lower price I pay each month was just a bonus.


Fair enough. But comparing Sling to YTTV, AT&T TV Now and Hulu Live, Sling is clearly the low-cost/fewer channels/lesser featured choice. It's also known for having PQ that's not as good as those three too.


----------



## foghorn2

NashGuy said:


> Fair enough. But comparing Sling to YTTV, AT&T TV Now and Hulu Live, Sling is clearly the low-cost/fewer channels/lesser featured choice. It's also known for having PQ that's not as good as those three too.


People complained and still are about garbage programming on Cable TV for such high prices.
Everyone going to on demand streaming.

So who gives a flying fig if the PQ on these live tv services is 100 perfect or not and why get them ALL bundled together at such high prices just like cable.

Thats why Sling makes the most sense. If theres a few channels you do want to watch live and even timeshift to kill the commercials, its the best option.


----------



## Teavo

I'm impressed with Philo so far. More channels than Sling plus unlimited DVR.

20.00 per month


----------



## trip1eX

foghorn2 said:


> People complained and still are about garbage programming on Cable TV for such high prices.
> Everyone going to on demand streaming.
> 
> So gives a flying fig if the PQ is these live tv services is 100 perfect or not and why get them ALL bundled together at such high prices just like cable.
> 
> Thats why Sling makes the most sense. If theres a few channels you do want to watch live and even timeshift to kill the commercials, its the best option.


Sling doesn't make much sense. YTTV isn't much more money and delivers a much better experience and more channels. It's a better sports option than Sling too.

Philo is $20/mo and has most of the channels Sling Blue has minus sports & news. Sling is getting squeezed. Probably why they lost customers the past quarter. They raised their prices enough that it just doesn't make much sense unless you really fall into the niche they are offering.


----------



## spiderpumpkin

Seems like having Comcast gigabit internet and streaming service is pretty close to the cost of just having a Comcast double or triple play with all fees and taxes.


----------



## spiderpumpkin

Teavo said:


> I'm impressed with Philo so far. More channels than Sling plus unlimited DVR.
> 
> 20.00 per month


You can also use it with Channels DVR.


----------



## NashGuy

foghorn2 said:


> Thats why Sling makes the most sense. If theres a few channels you do want to watch live and even timeshift to kill the commercials, its the best option.


Nah, getting free OTA TV makes the most sense and then just getting everything else via on-demand streaming services.


----------



## NashGuy

spiderpumpkin said:


> Seems like having Comcast gigabit internet and streaming service is pretty close to the cost of just having a Comcast double or triple play with all fees and taxes.


Eh, I've priced it out and, after all the fees are added up, you can still save a few bucks by getting something like YTTV separately with Comcast broadband, as opposed to getting both TV and broadband from Comcast. Not a ton of money, but it's still cheaper. In fact, one guy on another forum recently posted that he has standalone gigabit from Comcast and called up asking about options for adding TV. The Comcast rep just told him that he'd probably come out cheaper if he just went with YTTV!


----------



## aaronwt

Teavo said:


> I'm impressed with Philo so far. More channels than Sling plus unlimited DVR.
> 
> 20.00 per month


I'm glad I got grandfathered in on the $16 Philo tier before they eliminated it. Which had a few less channels than the $20 tier. Since those extra channels were not any I needed. Of course I expect Philo to eventually force us to the $20 tier at some point. But I hope it's not anytime soon.


----------



## foghorn2

Teavo said:


> I'm impressed with Philo so far. More channels than Sling plus unlimited DVR.
> 
> 20.00 per month


Does not have the channels I want, so for me , a complete waste of my money. Its not the number of channels, its about how much to pay for the few channels I do want.


----------



## foghorn2

trip1eX said:


> Sling doesn't make much sense. YTTV isn't much more money and delivers a much better experience and more channels. It's a better sports option than Sling too.
> 
> Philo is $20/mo and has most of the channels Sling Blue has minus sports & news. Sling is getting squeezed. Probably why they lost customers the past quarter. They raised their prices enough that it just doesn't make much sense unless you really fall into the niche they are offering.


YouTube forces me to pay for local channels I already get free. Sling does not. $30 < $50


----------



## foghorn2

NashGuy said:


> Nah, getting free OTA TV makes the most sense and then just getting everything else via on-demand streaming services.


Nah, theres a few live channels I like to supplement Free OTA,


----------



## trip1eX

foghorn2 said:


> YouTube forces me to pay for local channels I already get free. Sling does not. $30 < $50


Sling forces me to pay $20 extra for ESPN. and $5 extra for CNBC and $5 extra for a ****ty dvr. Plus forces me to use 1 account for everyone in the family. PLus forces me to buy separate OTA dvr equipment for locals plus buy an antenna and maintain and manage recordings on both local and cloud storage. $50<$60. And better dvr, multiple accounts, no extra equipment, no hassle, and better experience is priceless.


----------



## smark

trip1eX said:


> YTTV forces me to pay $20 extra for ESPN. and $5 extra for CNBC and $5 extra for a ****** dvr. Plus forces me to use 1 account for everyone in the family. PLus forces me to buy separate OTA dvr equipment for locals plus buy an antenna and maintain and manage recordings on both local and cloud storage. $50<$60. And better dvr, multiple accounts, no extra equipment, no hassle, and better experience is priceless.


I think you identified the wrong service to start the rant.


----------



## lparsons21

trip1eX said:


> Sling doesn't make much sense. YTTV isn't much more money and delivers a much better experience and more channels. It's a better sports option than Sling too.
> 
> Philo is $20/mo and has most of the channels Sling Blue has minus sports & news. Sling is getting squeezed. Probably why they lost customers the past quarter. They raised their prices enough that it just doesn't make much sense unless you really fall into the niche they are offering.


Let me correct your first statement a bit
"Sling doesn't make much sense to you"

Fortunately neither you nor I are the arbiter of what makes sense when it comes to streaming. I've finally cut the cable TV cord and switched to Sling Blue/Hulu/CBS and Tivo OTA. Yeah, got to switch apps and/or boxes, but as long as my thumb keeps working it isn't a big deal.

Looked at YTTV for a couple weeks and just couldn't get over their version of a DVR. Can't add just one episode of one show, can't delete any shows at all, doesn't record series from the single channel but from all channels it shows up on. All that explains why it is 'unlimited' DVR space because it wouldn't work at all otherwise. Just my opinion of course.


----------



## trip1eX

lparsons21 said:


> Let me correct your first statement a bit
> "Sling doesn't make much sense to you"
> 
> Fortunately neither you nor I are the arbiter of what makes sense when it comes to streaming. I've finally cut the cable TV cord and switched to Sling Blue/Hulu/CBS and Tivo OTA. Yeah, got to switch apps and/or boxes, but as long as my thumb keeps working it isn't a big deal.
> 
> Looked at YTTV for a couple weeks and just couldn't get over their version of a DVR. Can't add just one episode of one show, can't delete any shows at all, doesn't record series from the single channel but from all channels it shows up on. All that explains why it is 'unlimited' DVR space because it wouldn't work at all otherwise. Just my opinion of course.


you gotta look at the post I'm replying to with my post. I deliberately phrased it that way because the post I was replying to phrased things that way. Yet you didn't correct that person I see. 

Nevermind look to the left of my posts.

At the same time you have to read the rest of my post. The part where I say more objectively why it makes no sense.

And then the part where I end with "unless you really fall into the niche they are serving."

YTTV DVR is better hands down. But we can debate the merits in the YTTV thread because I hate to clog this up too much. The point of unlimited space is that you don't have to delete anything or worry about that other stuff you are worrying about for next to no reason. Who cares if you have a few too many episodes? It just isn't a worry. PLus who cares whether the chicken or egg came first. Who cares whether they "fixed" their dvr by giving it unlimited storage or started with unlimited storage and realized they didn't have to worry about this stuff that other dvrs with limited space have to worry about.


----------



## manhole

Did anyone notice the Tivo Stream 4k's remote has a Skip button on it? I wonder if that means Ad Skip, or just skip ahead X seconds. If they could incorporate their ad skip technology into the Sling Cloud DVR, that would be something to look forward to.


----------



## slowbiscuit

foghorn2 said:


> People complained and still are about garbage programming on Cable TV for such high prices.
> Everyone going to on demand streaming.
> 
> So who gives a flying fig if the PQ on these live tv services is 100 perfect or not and why get them ALL bundled together at such high prices just like cable.
> 
> *Thats why Sling makes the most sense.* If theres a few channels you do want to watch live and even timeshift to kill the commercials, its the best option.


For you.


----------



## chiguy50

spiderpumpkin said:


> Seems like having Comcast gigabit internet and streaming service is pretty close to the cost of just having a Comcast double or triple play with all fees and taxes.


It's very hard to quote any hard and fast figures, but generally speaking Comcast gigabit HSI costs $80 p.m. as a stand-alone service.

Depending on what features you need included (channel packs, premiums, Netflix, etc.) a Comcast Double or Triple Play package will generally run between approx. $130 and $180 including commonly available discounts and exclusive of equipment rental fees but including all other fees and taxes.


----------



## NashGuy

chiguy50 said:


> It's very hard to quote any hard and fast figures, but generally speaking Comcast gigabit HSI costs $80 p.m. as a stand-alone service.
> 
> Depending on what features you need included (channel packs, premiums, Netflix, etc.) a Comcast Double or Triple Play package will generally run between approx. $130 and $180 including commonly available discounts and exclusive of equipment rental fees but including all other fees and taxes.


Yeah, standalone Comcast gigabit here is regularly $113/mo. or $103 if you opt for paperless auto bill pay. If you take a one-year contract, they'll knock off $23/mo, to take the price down to $80/mo for that first year before then going back up to the regular price. If you need to rent their gateway, that's another $14/mo. Sounds like some folks these days are able to take another contract when their initial one lapses in order to get another promo discount, although YMMV.

I'm sure that Comcast is doing that kind of promo pricing in this market because AT&T Fiber is here too. They charge $80/mo for the first year for _symmetrical_ gigabit, including the gateway rental. Requires a 1-yr contract. Then that jumps to $110/mo total after the first year. You also get $100-200 in Visa gift cards if you order online. It's a better deal than what Comcast offers, if it's available at your address. Nice thing about competition though is that Comcast tends to set their pricing for an entire area to compete with AT&T, even if AT&T is available at only a fraction of the homes in that area.


----------



## chiguy50

NashGuy said:


> Yeah, standalone Comcast gigabit here is regularly $113/mo. or $103 if you opt for paperless auto bill pay. If you take a one-year contract, they'll knock off $23/mo, to take the price down to $80/mo for that first year before then going back up to the regular price. If you need to rent their gateway, that's another $14/mo. Sounds like some folks these days are able to take another contract when their initial one lapses in order to get another promo discount, although YMMV.


The promo discount has so far always been available upon renewal of a 12-month agreement AFAICT, so I consider the $20/40/50/60/70/80 p.m. pricing the standard going rate for Comcast HSI speed tiers (Performance Starter--25/Performance--100/Blast!--200/Extreme--300/Extreme Pro--600/Gigabit). Anyone not taking advantage of the various discounts is overpaying in my book.

Not to quibble, but the gateway rental incurs sales tax, making the $14 charge more or less $15 p.m. in total.



NashGuy said:


> I'm sure that Comcast is doing that kind of promo pricing in this market because AT&T Fiber is here too. They charge $80/mo for the first year for _symmetrical_ gigabit, including the gateway rental. Requires a 1-yr contract. Then that jumps to $110/mo total after the first year. You also get $100-200 in Visa gift cards if you order online. It's a better deal than what Comcast offers, if it's available at your address. Nice thing about competition though is that Comcast tends to set their pricing for an entire area to compete with AT&T, even if AT&T is available at only a fraction of the homes in that area.


And Google Fiber's symmetrical gigabit service, where available, is an even better deal at $70 including the equipment. Their lower tier at 100Mbps for $50 p.m. is pretty much a wash IME compared to Comcast Blast! (240/12Mbps in real-world numbers) at the same price, assuming you have your own modem and don't need the higher upload speed with GF.


----------



## NashGuy

chiguy50 said:


> And Google Fiber's symmetrical gigabit service, where available, is an even better deal at $70 including the equipment. Their lower tier at 100Mbps for $50 p.m. is pretty much a wash IME compared to Comcast Blast! (240/12Mbps in real-world numbers) at the same price, assuming you have your own modem and don't need the higher upload speed with GF.


Yeah, that $70 non-promo everyday price for 1 gig Google Fiber is a great deal. Too bad it's available to so few homes. But I am thankful that Google Fiber helped light a fire under other ISPs to roll out gigabit service and also made them price more aggressively in the markets where GF exists.

As for their 100 Mbps service for $50, that's definitely what I would have gone with if it were available. But GF has stopped selling it completely to new customers everywhere, I believe. They just offer 1 gig now. And I don't expect GF will ever show up in my neighborhood anyhow. They're pretty much just extending to MDUs here in Nashville now, I think. If I leave Comcast after my 2-year promo rate ends on 100 Mbps service, it will probably be to AT&T Fiber resold through Toast.net. But that's assuming all the options and pricing are the same next spring as they are now. Who knows by then...


----------



## chiguy50

NashGuy said:


> Yeah, that $70 non-promo everyday price for 1 gig Google Fiber is a great deal. Too bad it's available to so few homes. But I am thankful that Google Fiber helped light a fire under other ISPs to roll out gigabit service and also made them price more aggressively in the markets where GF exists.
> 
> As for their 100 Mbps service for $50, that's definitely what I would have gone with if it were available. *But GF has stopped selling it completely to new customers everywhere, I believe. They just offer 1 gig now.* And I don't expect GF will ever show up in my neighborhood anyhow. *They're pretty much just extending to MDUs here in Nashville now, I think.* If I leave Comcast after my 2-year promo rate ends on 100 Mbps service, it will probably be to AT&T Fiber resold through Toast.net. But that's assuming all the options and pricing are the same next spring as they are now. Who knows by then...


I'm sorry to hear that. Less than six months ago GF offered me a 20% discount on the retail rate for either 100Mbps or Gigabit service on a 2-year bulk deal for my HOA, and I'm pretty sure I could squeeze a bit more off their initial offer if my BOD were willing to pursue it.

But you are right on the money (NPI) concerning the effect on Comcast of the competition. In fact, two years ago I had gigabit HSI from Comcast on a 12-month non-contract discount for--wait for it--$70 p.m. Not a coincidence, you betcha.


----------



## Edmund

Fandango Now is now Firesticks:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084ZYL2CQ/ref=pe_385040_117923520_TE_M1DP

Released 2 days ago.

Gives you access to your Paramount and Lionsgate Vudu titles that aren't on the Movies anywhere app on the firestick. And of course any tv shows you might have too.


----------



## windracer

Edmund said:


> Fandango Now is now Firesticks


Cool. I couldn't find it on the Fire TV Stick directly (yet?) but was able to push it from the web site.


----------



## Dan203

I was able to sideload the AndroidTV Vudu app onto my FireTV and it works. Although it's just like the AppleTV app in that it's play only and you can’t actually buy anything.


----------



## CTLesq

TiVo Stream will have 5k apps? Will any come to the Bolt through an update?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

CTLesq said:


> TiVo Stream will have 5k apps? Will any come to the Bolt through an update


The Stream will have access to the whole Android TV app store.

The DVRs would need to be upgraded to Android, which is extremely unlikely.


----------



## Dan203

CTLesq said:


> TiVo Stream will have 5k apps? Will any come to the Bolt through an update?


This thing is basically an Android TV streamer, like the Nvidia Shield, with a TiVo branded UI and remote. At it's core it's Android so it will have full access to the Google Play store.

It's highly unlikely any of the DVRs will be upgraded to Android TV, so they will never have access to the same apps.

This thing doesn't even have a TiVo app so you can access your TiVo DVR. It appears to wrap the SlingTV DVR in a TiVo UI and that's it. No connection to other TiVo products at all.


----------



## halx

Dan203 said:


> This thing is basically an Android TV streamer, like the Nvidia Shield, with a TiVo branded UI and remote. At it's core it's Android so it will have full access to the Google Play store.
> 
> It's highly unlikely any of the DVRs will be upgraded to Android TV, so they will never have access to the same apps.
> 
> This thing doesn't even have a TiVo app so you can access your TiVo DVR. It appears to wrap the SlingTV DVR in a TiVo UI and that's it. No connection to other TiVo products at all.


Do you play the lottery?

"hope springs eternal. People will keep on hoping, no matter what the odds. For example, I keep buying lottery tickets-hope springs eternal. This expression was coined by Alexander Pope (An Essay on Man, 1732)"

Tivo chance for a win here is high. Tivo already has a relationship with HBO, Hulu, Amazon, Netflix. Tivo already has a uber search function for all those providers now add Sling TV. This could be the lifeline this company needs (badly).


----------



## Dan203

My post wasn’t meant to be a dig at TiVo for this device. Heck I might even buy one. I went into all the detail to point out why it's highly unlikely they'll bring this same functionality to their DVRs. I think this is their new path. I think the Edge will be the last real DVR they ever make for retail.


----------



## NashGuy

Dan203 said:


> My post wasn't meant to be a dig at TiVo for this device. Heck I might even buy one. I went into all the detail to point out why it's highly unlikely they'll bring this same functionality to their DVRs. I think this is their new path. I think the Edge will be the last real DVR they ever make for retail.


Agreed. (Although I also repeatedly said that I thought the Bolt was the last CableCARD retail DVR that they'd ever make and they proved me wrong with the Edge.)


----------



## Dan203

NashGuy said:


> Agreed. (Although I also repeatedly said that I thought the Bolt was the last CableCARD retail DVR that they'd ever make and they proved me wrong with the Edge.)


I thought for sure the Edge was going to be an AndroidTV device. They had 9+ months to go from what they were selling to MSOs to something with DVR functionality built in. In the end they released a DVR running a slightly newer chipset but the same underlying software as the Bolt with limited apps and no future.


----------



## NashGuy

Dan203 said:


> I thought for sure the Edge was going to be an AndroidTV device. They had 9+ months to go from what they were selling to MSOs to something with DVR functionality built in. In the end they released a DVR running a slightly newer chipset but the same underlying software as the Bolt with limited apps and no future.


Yeah. I still wonder if it wasn't because Arris decided that the manufacturing cost to crank out the Edge would be lower than doing another production run of the Bolt. Maybe the Edge shares some internal components with some other STBs that they're manufacturing for MSOs? And the marketing value that they'd get from a refreshed brand name and a couple new features (e.g. Dolby Vision) would more than offset the modest marketing costs versus just sticking with the Bolt.

At any rate, it's clear that the idea to do the Edge wasn't to really shake up their retail DVR product. It's pretty clear to me that it's pretty clear to them that it's a dead end.


----------



## Dan203

While CableCARD is a dead end, and this SlinTV thing is a good alternative, I think there will still be demand for OTA recording. I think they should do a Tablo style OTA DVR to pair with SlingTV in this new device. That will be the ultimate cord cutter device


----------



## mdavej

Dan203 said:


> While CableCARD is a dead end, and this SlinTV thing is a good alternative, I think there will still be demand for OTA recording. I think they should do a Tablo style OTA DVR to pair with SlingTV in this new device. That will be the ultimate cord cutter device


... like Amazon Recast.


----------



## halx

Dan203 said:


> My post wasn't meant to be a dig at TiVo for this device. Heck I might even buy one. I went into all the detail to point out why it's highly unlikely they'll bring this same functionality to their DVRs. I think this is their new path. I think the Edge will be the last real DVR they ever make for retail.


Cool. The older Tivos are linux boxes android is not a linux distro but it is linux. So if Tivo separated their concerns correctly (after the fact engineer speak) it's possible. BUT agree unlikely to see the new features on the older Tivos. BUT I do want the older features on the new hardware 
like ReplayTV Skip commercial feature I meant Tivo Skip commercial feature, One/Season Pass.

reminds me
"I don't have sex with people I do business with ...
But I do do business with people that I have sex with ...
... no conflict " Alan White


----------



## Dan203

halx said:


> Cool. The older Tivos are linux boxes android is not a linux distro but it is linux. So if Tivo separated their concerns correctly (after the fact engineer speak) it's possible. BUT agree unlikely to see the new features on the older Tivos. BUT I do want the older features on the new hardware
> like ReplayTV Skip commercial feature I meant Tivo Skip commercial feature, One/Season Pass.
> 
> reminds me
> "I don't have sex with people I do business with ...
> But I do do business with people that I have sex with ...
> ... no conflict " Alan White


You may not know this but TiVo has been selling an Android TV based DVR to MSOs for over a year now. The caveat is that it only works with external DVRs. Specifically cloud based DVRs and similar. So this is likely what this new device is essentially going to be but instead of working with MSOs cloud DVR it's going to work with SligTV instead. I thought maybe the Edge would be something like a Tablo, a headless DVR, that could feed this same DVR stream to the Android TV platform but locally instead of from a cloud based source. Android TV also has a pretty extensive DVR API built in so I thought maybe they might just migrate over to it and ditch all their old legacy code. It turned out to be neither. But if they had gone either route it wouldn't have required porting their Linux based code over. One would have continued to use the legacy code but just made it a headless device controlled by an external Android TV device via the network. The other would have required them to completely ditch their legacy code and just switch to the Android TV DVR API, which admittedly I'm not sure is even 100% possible. (not sure how their guide data, nor their CableCARD certification would work if they did that)


----------



## wmcbrine

Dan203 said:


> You may not know this but TiVo has been selling an Android TV based DVR to MSOs for over a year now. The caveat is that it only works with external DVRs. Specifically cloud based DVRs and similar.


Yeah. My sister just signed up for RCN (not available in my area), which uses this system, so I may finally get a peek at it. Kinda surprising that we don't seem to get those users here -- they could have their own section(s).


----------



## NashGuy

Dan203 said:


> While CableCARD is a dead end, and this SlinTV thing is a good alternative, I think there will still be demand for OTA recording. I think they should do a Tablo style OTA DVR to pair with SlingTV in this new device. That will be the ultimate cord cutter device


Heck, TiVo could just white-label the existing AirTV 2 device that works with the Sling app to integrate live and recorded OTA TV. (Although I would expect that TiVo would build a fuller feature set into their front-end app for managing recordings.) The TiVo Stream 4K is basically the same hardware as the AirTV Mini, just with TiVo's customized version of Android TV as opposed to Sling's. Don't see why they couldn't follow suit with the OTA accessory.


----------



## NashGuy

wmcbrine said:


> Yeah. My sister just signed up for RCN (not available in my area), which uses this system, so I may finally get a peek at it. Kinda surprising that we don't seem to get those users here -- they could have their own section(s).


It seems like exceptionally few folks who get a TiVo from their MSO care enough about "all things TiVo" to find or post on a forum like this one. If they have technical questions, they probably just post on their MSO's support forum. But those folks likely don't care at all about upcoming TiVo hardware or features or the fate of the company. To them, their TiVo is just a cable box with a neat little logo on it.


----------



## Dan203

NashGuy said:


> Heck, TiVo could just white-label the existing AirTV 2 device that works with the Sling app to integrate live and recorded OTA TV. (Although I would expect that TiVo would build a fuller feature set into their front-end app for managing recordings.) The TiVo Stream 4K is basically the same hardware as the AirTV Mini, just with TiVo's customized version of Android TV as opposed to Sling's. Don't see why they couldn't follow suit with the OTA accessory.


Yeah someone mentioned that up thread. Only issue I see there is it's only 2 tuners. All OTA TiVos since the Roamio have had 4. Seems like a step backwards.


----------



## Dan203

NashGuy said:


> It seems like exceptionally few folks who get a TiVo from their MSO care enough about "all things TiVo" to find or post on a forum like this one. If they have technical questions, they probably just post on their MSO's support forum. But those folks likely don't care at all about upcoming TiVo hardware or features or the fate of the company. To them, their TiVo is just a cable box with a neat little logo on it.


TiVo offers an option to replace the logo with the MSOs, so they may not even realize it's TiVo at all.


----------



## tenthplanet

mdavej said:


> ... like Amazon Recast.


Which is still a lot of money for many people, what's needed is a 100 dollar ota dvr, that can be expanded. At that price you open a whole new market, double the price or more you moved into nice but can't afford. There is a reason that own your own dvrs never took off even before cord cutting, they never dropped in price compared to VCRs.


----------



## mdavej

... like the $99 Channel Master Stream+ or the $30 HomeWorx and iView? The latter works exactly like a VCR.


----------



## trip1eX

tenthplanet said:


> Which is still a lot of money for many people, what's needed is a 100 dollar ota dvr, that can be expanded. At that price you open a whole new market, double the price or more you moved into nice but can't afford. There is a reason that own your own dvrs never took off even before cord cutting, they never dropped in price compared to VCRs.


Yeah dVR penetration only really got to around 50% of households. The VCR reached 90% of households.

And a few years ago, more households already had Netflix than a dvr.


----------



## Charles R

tenthplanet said:


> Which is still a lot of money for many people, what's needed is a 100 dollar ota dvr, that can be expanded.


On sale (regularly) the Recast is $129 and $179 (based on two or four tuners) which is not much more than most people's monthly cell phone bill ($114). As such pricing is hardly an issue for the mass market.


----------



## aaronwt

Charles R said:


> On sale (regularly) the Recast is $129 and $179 (based on two or four tuners) which is not much more than most people's monthly cell phone bill ($114). As such pricing is hardly an issue for the mass market.


Your average person prefers to pay many times that cost. By renting boxes for many years from their cable providers.


----------



## NashGuy

Dan203 said:


> Yeah someone mentioned that up thread. Only issue I see there is it's only 2 tuners. All OTA TiVos since the Roamio have had 4. Seems like a step backwards.


Well, if the product got traction maybe they could do a 4-tuner model too (or maybe you could simply purchase two 2-tuner units and connect both to the same network, as you can do now with HDHomeRun tuners). But given this market segment, it makes more sense to me to keep the price of entry low. Hence, an entry-level 2-tuner model, as Tablo, Amazon and HDHomeRun have all done.


----------



## trip1eX

I wonder what would happen if everyone got the networks free via OTA tomorrow? Would they survive? How much of their business nowadays depends on the retransmission fees?


----------



## Dan203

trip1eX said:


> I wonder what would happen if everyone got the networks free via OTA tomorrow? Would they survive? How much of their business nowadays depends on the retransmission fees?


Since they keep raising the fees, and once Fox even threatened to convert to a cable only channel, I assume that a good portion of their viewers come from cable. But I'm not sure how dependent they are on those fees compared to what they get for ads.


----------



## osu1991

More than half of the retransmission fees go back to the Networks via reverse compensation to help pay for things like the NFL, MLB, NBA and college football packages that are OTA. The local affiliates don’t get it all.


----------



## cwoody222

VCR's also let households rent Hollywood movies in their homes.

Shockingly, a lot of households just done care that much about time shifting or recording linear television


trip1eX said:


> Yeah dVR penetration only really got to around 50% of households. The VCR reached 90% of households.
> 
> And a few years ago, more households already had Netflix than a dvr.


The VCR did things that many consumers wanted that DVRs in the early 00's didn't... let them bring Hollywood movies into their home cheaply and easily.

The home video rental market (and home movie market) drove a LOT more VCR sales than TV-show recording.

Trying to translate VCR sales to DVR sales is not apples to apples.


----------



## cwoody222

Dan203 said:


> You may not know this but TiVo has been selling an Android TV based DVR to MSOs for over a year now. The caveat is that it only works with external DVRs. Specifically cloud based DVRs and similar. So this is likely what this new device is essentially going to be but instead of working with MSOs cloud DVR it's going to work with SligTV instead. I thought maybe the Edge would be something like a Tablo, a headless DVR, that could feed this same DVR stream to the Android TV platform but locally instead of from a cloud based source. Android TV also has a pretty extensive DVR API built in so I thought maybe they might just migrate over to it and ditch all their old legacy code. It turned out to be neither. But if they had gone either route it wouldn't have required porting their Linux based code over. One would have continued to use the legacy code but just made it a headless device controlled by an external Android TV device via the network. The other would have required them to completely ditch their legacy code and just switch to the Android TV DVR API, which admittedly I'm not sure is even 100% possible. (not sure how their guide data, nor their CableCARD certification would work if they did that)


Another huge caveat is that those MSO Tivos only work with non-linear cable companies that don't use Cable Cards and instead deliver their "cable" over IP. And none of those cable setups allow consumers to bring their own DVR like a Cable Card setup allows.

Is there any AndroidTV device in existence now for sale to consumers that uses Cable Cards?

I don't think your second idea (the AndroidTV DVR API) is possible, or at least, feasible.

Your other idea... ditches the entire idea of a single device and transforms that into multiple devices? A legacy-code headless device to allow for cable card integration and recording storage + a Android TV device to allow for the UI functionality (ie: what the customer interacts with on-screen) and App Store access?

So consumers would have a much more complicated setup with two separate devices to manage and network together in their home all for the added benefit of... watching the Mandalorian on the TiVo input of their TV?


----------



## Dan203

cwoody222 said:


> Another huge caveat is that those MSO Tivos only work with non-linear cable companies that don't use Cable Cards and instead deliver their "cable" over IP. And none of those cable setups allow consumers to bring their own DVR like a Cable Card setup allows.
> 
> Is there any AndroidTV device in existence now for sale to consumers that uses Cable Cards?
> 
> I don't think your second idea (the AndroidTV DVR API) is possible, or at least, feasible.
> 
> Your other idea... ditches the entire idea of a single device and transforms that into multiple devices? A legacy-code headless device to allow for cable card integration and recording storage + a Android TV device to allow for the UI functionality (ie: what the customer interacts with on-screen) and App Store access?
> 
> So consumers would have a much more complicated setup with two separate devices to manage and network together in their home all for the added benefit of... watching the Mandalorian on the TiVo input of their TV?


Tablo, and HDHomeRun, already have the two piece system. Basically a headless DVR and then an app that runs on popular streaming devices to control it. Only difference here is TiVo would have their own branded streaming device with a TiVo UI running right at startup and a TiVo style remote.


----------



## cwoody222

Dan203 said:


> Tablo, and HDHomeRun, already have the two piece system. Basically a headless DVR and then an app that runs on popular streaming devices to control it. Only difference here is TiVo would have their own branded streaming device with a TiVo UI running right at startup and a TiVo style remote.


Right. And I'd hardly call Tablo and HD Homerun highly successful in the marketplace.

Both are way too confusing for everyday consumers.

Heck, TIVO is too confusing for many  That's why cable DVRs are successful even though they're inferior.


----------



## SullyND

Dan203 said:


> Tablo, and HDHomeRun, already have the two piece system. Basically a headless DVR and then an app that runs on popular streaming devices to control it. Only difference here is TiVo would have their own branded streaming device with a TiVo UI running right at startup and a TiVo style remote.


Remember this?

TiVo's leaked Mavrik is a cloud-based DVR


----------



## morac

Granted this only works for Xfinity Internet only customers, but Comcast is giving away a free streaming device to their Internet only customers that has a similar type of integration that the Tivo Streaming player does. It's not based on Android TV, so it doesn't have as many apps, but it's free. It also gets Peacock 3 months early which is free.

Xfinity Flex Review 2020 | HighSpeedInternet.com


----------



## trip1eX

cwoody222 said:


> VCR's also let households rent Hollywood movies in their homes.
> 
> Shockingly, a lot of households just done care that much about time shifting or recording linear television
> 
> The VCR did things that many consumers wanted that DVRs in the early 00's didn't... let them bring Hollywood movies into their home cheaply and easily.
> 
> The home video rental market (and home movie market) drove a LOT more VCR sales than TV-show recording.
> 
> Trying to translate VCR sales to DVR sales is not apples to apples.


Good point. The VCR was at least as much a "DVD player" as a video recorder.

Cable VoD and streaming didn't help DVR penetration either.

And I never really recorded much with the VCR either now that I think about it. Vast majority of tv was still watched live. Recording was a pain and limited.

My parents recorded a lot of tv. My Dad, I remember had and still has a box of videotapes somewhere in his house full of Dynasty, Dallas, and Falcon Crest episodes he never watched but never wanted anyone to record over because someday...


----------



## Dan203

SullyND said:


> Remember this?
> 
> TiVo's leaked Mavrik is a cloud-based DVR


That was something weird where the TiVo would record a show and then collectively all of them would each upload just a small piece of the show and then the cloud server would stitch the chunks together to create the copy in the cloud. From what I heard from the beta testers it didn't work very well and that's likely why TiVo scrapped it.


----------



## wmcbrine

Dan203 said:


> TiVo offers an option to replace the logo with the MSOs, so they may not even realize it's TiVo at all.


RCN doesn't do that. They actually use the TiVo name in their marketing material.


----------



## Charles R

morac said:


> Granted this only works for Xfinity Internet only customers, but Comcast is giving away a free streaming device to their Internet only customers that has a similar type of integration that the Tivo Streaming player does.


It's one per account and any additional devices are monthly rentals (I believe).


----------



## k2ue

srazook said:


> It's too bad they choose Sling TV as their preferred subscription TV partner for streaming live TV. Sling doesn't have any local channels! YouTube TV and Hulu Live much better services, hopefully you'll also have the option to access them.


Actually SlingTV supports the AirTV2 Tuner for OTA, integrated and viewable thru the Sling App, so that is a possible locals solution.


----------



## foghorn2

k2ue said:


> Actually SlingTV supports the AirTV2 Tuner for OTA, integrated and viewable thru the Sling App, so that is a possible locals solution.


Right, and you dont have to pay for locals you already receive free, like you would with cable, sat or Youtube TV, ect ect..


----------



## Teavo

YouTube tv has all local channels and it comes in handy when u don't get good rabbit ears reception


----------



## NashGuy

Dan203 said:


> Since they keep raising the fees, and once Fox even threatened to convert to a cable only channel, I assume that a good portion of their viewers come from cable. But I'm not sure how dependent they are on those fees compared to what they get for ads.


Based on what I've read over time, I think the revenue that the broadcast networks and their local affiliates rake in is pretty evenly split between ad revenue and retransmission fees. Retrans fees weren't even a thing before the 90s and they've grown to be a larger and larger slice of the revenue pie since. If they were to go away, it would completely change the economics of broadcast TV.

As viewership continues to transition away from the cable bundle to streaming, I wonder if we won't see Hulu include a livestream of all ABC stations nationwide in their base package, and Peacock Premium do the same with NBC stations. CBS All Access already does this with CBS stations. Perhaps Fox is thinking along the same lines, given that they're looking to buy the free ad-supported Tubi service. If they buy it, I could see them folding all that free content into a Fox app, also featuring free access to select Fox episodes. And maybe if you pay a few bucks a month, you also get access to your local Fox station's livestream, with all the same Fox on-demand content they currently give to cable subscribers in their authenticated Fox Now app.


----------



## NashGuy

cwoody222 said:


> Is there any AndroidTV device in existence now for sale to consumers that uses Cable Cards?


Nope. Which is why I think we'll never see TiVo release such a product.


----------



## owine

Dan203 said:


> You may not know this but TiVo has been selling an Android TV based DVR to MSOs for over a year now. The caveat is that it only works with external DVRs. Specifically cloud based DVRs and similar. So this is likely what this new device is essentially going to be but instead of working with MSOs cloud DVR it's going to work with SligTV instead. I thought maybe the Edge would be something like a Tablo, a headless DVR, that could feed this same DVR stream to the Android TV platform but locally instead of from a cloud based source. Android TV also has a pretty extensive DVR API built in so I thought maybe they might just migrate over to it and ditch all their old legacy code. It turned out to be neither. But if they had gone either route it wouldn't have required porting their Linux based code over. One would have continued to use the legacy code but just made it a headless device controlled by an external Android TV device via the network. The other would have required them to completely ditch their legacy code and just switch to the Android TV DVR API, which admittedly I'm not sure is even 100% possible. (not sure how their guide data, nor their CableCARD certification would work if they did that)


I've had this service from RCN for a few months. If anyone is interested, happy to answer any questions.

They're deploying what they deem to be a big upgrade next week so I am curious to see what it brings. There are definite teething pains as there are with anything new, but there is a lot of potential here.


----------



## BillyClyde

owine said:


> ......They're deploying what they deem to be a big upgrade next week so I am curious to see what it brings. .........


TiVo+


----------



## NashGuy

BillyClyde said:


> TiVo+


Hah! And as pointed out on another thread here, the free channels in TiVo+ are powered by a partnership with Xumo. Which was just purchased by... Comcast.


----------



## Dan203

owine said:


> I've had this service from RCN for a few months. If anyone is interested, happy to answer any questions.
> 
> They're deploying what they deem to be a big upgrade next week so I am curious to see what it brings. There are definite teething pains as there are with anything new, but there is a lot of potential here.


My biggest question would be how do the DVR options compare to a regular TiVo? One issue I had with a lot of the OTT streaming services with DVRs is they didn't offer options like Keep At Most or channel specific Season Passes. Does this device retain all the same features as a regular TiVo just with the "recording" in the cloud? Or is the TiVo part just an overlay on top of whatever options the provider has decided to offer?


----------



## owine

Dan203 said:


> My biggest question would be how do the DVR options compare to a regular TiVo? One issue I had with a lot of the OTT streaming services with DVRs is they didn't offer options like Keep At Most or channel specific Season Passes. Does this device retain all the same features as a regular TiVo just with the "recording" in the cloud? Or is the TiVo part just an overlay on top of whatever options the provider has decided to offer?


To be honest, I have not DVR'd anything in years even when we had U-verse TV before. Let me know what menus you'd like to see and i will check it out.


----------



## Dan203

owine said:


> To be honest, I have not DVR'd anything in years even when we had U-verse TV before. Let me know what menus you'd like to see and i will check it out.


When you're setting up a new One Pass, or whatever it's called on this system, what extra options are available? This is what a current TiVo offers. The big ones I found missing from OTT services were the Keep at most and Keep until options.


----------



## BillyClyde

NashGuy said:


> Hah! And as pointed out on another thread here, the free channels in TiVo+ are powered by a partnership with Xumo. Which was just purchased by... Comcast.


Oh wow, I didn't even know that. I was just being sarcastic!


----------



## NashGuy

Dan203 said:


> My biggest question would be how do the DVR options compare to a regular TiVo? One issue I had with a lot of the OTT streaming services with DVRs is they didn't offer options like Keep At Most or channel specific Season Passes. Does this device retain all the same features as a regular TiVo just with the "recording" in the cloud? Or is the TiVo part just an overlay on top of whatever options the provider has decided to offer?


As MVPDs' local DVRs give way to cloud DVRs, I think the trend is toward simpler controls, at the expense of the kind of power-user options that you and other TiVo-philes desire. A lot of those options are borne out of a need to manage/free up recording space. But a lot of cloud DVRs seem to provide unlimited or a lot of space with the limiting factor being the amount of time that recordings can be retained. So that effectively auto-prunes your set of recordings.

All that said, I'm curious how RCN and other IPTV services who use a TiVo front-end UI are structuring their cloud DVR.


----------



## Dan203

With the OTT services I tried you could create a "Season Pass" for a show, but there was little to no control over which episodes were recorded or how many were retained even though many had a limit (typically in hours) for how much your DVR could retain. So for shows that are constantly syndicated or things like news that are on daily, but I may not always watch, it would become a nightmare to try and prune the unwanted episodes so that nothing important got pushed off the list. Most did have a "new only" type option, that would take care of most syndication, provided the guide data was correct. But without a KAM setting you couldn't do a news type program or daily talk show without it potentially overrunning your entire DVR.

The other issue I ran into was profiles. I know TiVo doesn't have profiles either, but me and my wife each have our own TiVos so her shows are on her TiVo and mine are on mine. Things we watch together can be on either, but usually mine because I have more space. If we had to share I'd have to sort through dozens of different versions of Real Housewives and cooking/baking competition shows to find my few remaining recorded shows. (I watch streaming content 95% of the time these days)


----------



## NashGuy

Dan203 said:


> With the OTT services I tried you could create a "Season Pass" for a show, but there was little to no control over which episodes were recorded or how many were retained even though many had a limit (typically in hours) for how much your DVR could retain. So for shows that are constantly syndicated or things like news that are on daily, but I may not always watch, it would become a nightmare to try and prune the unwanted episodes so that nothing important got pushed off the list. Most did have a "new only" type option, that would take care of most syndication, provided the guide data was correct. But without a KAM setting you couldn't do a news type program or daily talk show without it potentially overrunning your entire DVR.


Yeah. But if you had YTTV's unlimited storage, then you wouldn't worry about it. Everything you record sticks around for 9 months. Or if you had AT&T TV's 500 hrs of storage, it also wouldn't become a problem, given all recordings expire after 90 days. PS Vue was the same situation, with unlimited storage and a 28 day expiration.


----------



## Dan203

NashGuy said:


> Yeah. But if you had YTTV's unlimited storage, then you wouldn't worry about it. Everything you record sticks around for 9 months. Or if you had AT&T TV's 500 hrs of storage, it also wouldn't become a problem, given all recordings expire after 90 days. PS Vue was the same situation, with unlimited storage and a 28 day expiration.


That's another reason I wouldn't want one of these services. 9 months is probably OK, but I would not be good with 30-90 days. I was actually looking a Fubo, which is 500 hours but the recordings never expire. Unfortunately the only option they had "new only" or "all". The lack of profiles, as mentioned in my edit above, was the big reason I couldn't do it though. Plus the UI was pretty terrible.

For now my wife is pretty ingrained in cable and refuses to give it up. I personally have transitioned 95%+ of my watching to streaming services so I could cut the cord and be perfectly fine.


----------



## owine

Dan203 said:


> When you're setting up a new One Pass, or whatever it's called on this system, what extra options are available? This is what a current TiVo offers. The big ones I found missing from OTT services were the Keep at most and Keep until options.











Looks like they carried over all of the features.


----------



## eherberg

Does RCN use an Android system for sure? Looking at their site - those boxes look like standard Arris hardware local-drive boxes.


----------



## NashGuy

eherberg said:


> Does RCN use an Android system for sure? Looking at their site - those boxes look like standard Arris hardware local-drive boxes.


Most addresses served by RCN are on a traditional QAM cable TV network. The TiVos those addresses get contain hard drives, QAM tuners and CableCARDs, much like the retail TiVos.

But some newer parts of RCN's footprint, such as certain condos and apartments in Chicago, are served by a fiber network with IPTV. Those addresses get a simple box with the TiVo UI that underneath is running either Android TV or Linux (not sure which). These boxes do not contain QAM tuners or hard drives. DVR recordings are stored in the cloud (on RCN's servers).


----------



## owine

NashGuy said:


> Most addresses served by RCN are on a traditional QAM cable TV network. The TiVos those addresses get contain hard drives, QAM tuners and CableCARDs, much like the retail TiVos.
> 
> But some newer parts of RCN's footprint, such as certain condos and apartments in Chicago, are served by a fiber network with IPTV. Those addresses get a simple box with the TiVo UI that underneath is running either Android TV or Linux (not sure which). These boxes do not contain QAM tuners or hard drives. DVR recordings are stored in the cloud (on RCN's servers).


It's Android TV Operator Tier with all the trimmings (Google Play apps, Google Assistant, fancy Android TV boot animation).


----------



## Noelmel

TiVo posted the first of a series of short clips demoing this today. Here's the link




__ https://www.facebook.com/




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1233786374324727808
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Teavo

That does not impress me or make me want to switch from Roku.


----------



## Dan203

I don’t really care that much about the UI of the device. As long as it has all the apps I want and can be controlled by Alexa. I like the remote, so I'll probably buy one just for that


----------



## Mabes

I'll get it just for the universal watch list. For the top menu, I hope you can set it not to show HBO etc if you don't get HBO


----------



## spiderpumpkin

Noelmel said:


> TiVo posted the first of a series of short clips demoing this today. ...


They don't look very enthusiastic.


----------



## Time2Jet

What are the chances of a Control4 driver at launch? min Apps available? Which apps will stream Atmos? These seem like simple questions, but you'd be surprised how important this is to many.

TiVo and C4 marry very well typically, but in the streaming arena Roku kills for C4 users. Problem is Roku will not support best AV formats for its content providers. ATV and Shield do a great job, but no mini apps for Control4. Ideas? info?

Thanks!


----------



## Noelmel

Mabes said:


> I'll get it just for the universal watch list. For the top menu, I hope you can set it not to show HBO etc if you don't get HBO


I would assume so since in a onepass you can "uncheck" apps you don't have so hopefully it'll be the same

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wco81

I would assume it would run the streaming apps. better than my 5-year old Roamio Plus.

But I already have an Apple TV 4th gen (not 4K) and a Chromecast Ultra.

I don't have a 4K TV yet but when I upgrade, I would probably go for something with HDMI 2.1.

However, I may consider this, for $50, it's cheap. I think some of the Amazon dongles also support 4K with Dolby Vision as well? I would probably prefer Tivo over Amazon.

But I wonder about performance compared to an Apple TV. Sure Apple TV costs more but they use a much faster processor.


----------



## Dan203

Noelmel said:


> I would assume so since in a onepass you can "uncheck" apps you don't have so hopefully it'll be the same


Assume that since it's an Android TV device it'll actually be based on the apps you have installed, rather then forcing you to manually uncheck apps. The way the current TiVos work is all of the apps are "installed" on every TiVo and all you're unchecking is whether to show them in the menus or include them in search/OnePass. With the Android TV device it should be the opposite. It should come as a blank slate, or maybe with a couple of pre-installed apps like Sling and Netflix, but everything else will need to be installed by the user via the Play Store.


----------



## wco81

Does it actually record streaming shows or just give you a link to launch an app?


----------



## Dan203

wco81 said:


> Does it actually record streaming shows or just give you a link to launch an app?


It sounds like it will be integrated with SlingTV in a way that presents it as the "DVR" portion of the device. Everything else will likely work just like OnePass does with the current TiVos or the mobile apps, where it launches the app.


----------



## Noelmel

Here's the second weekly sneak peek video


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1236058351567376389
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mikeguy

Noelmel said:


> Here's the second weekly sneak peek video
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1236058351567376389


And so, in other words, it does what other streaming devices do?*

* But, with the addition of TiVo+!


----------



## Dan203

Mikeguy said:


> And so, in other words, it does what other streaming devices do?*
> 
> * But, with the addition of TiVo+!


I thought they were going to talk about the SlingTV integration since it was highlighted on the screen. Instead we got a lesson insider VOD acronyms.


----------



## JoeKustra

I'm learning that all streaming devices are not created equal. My cable company has TVE, and I learned that a Roku isn't supported for ABC but the Fire TV is supported. Is there a list of supported networks? If not, I'll buy one.


----------



## Dan203

JoeKustra said:


> I'm learning that all streaming devices are not created equal. My cable company has TVE, and I learned that a Roku isn't supported for ABC but the Fire TV is supported. Is there a list of supported networks? If not, I'll buy one.


It's an Android TV device with a TiVo UI, so it should be the same as any other Android TV device.


----------



## Noelmel

Hopefully since In this latest video she mentions Disney plus any app you download onto it should show up in the unified search results. That would be awesome. I know a lot of people are hoping for YouTube tv as well. Hulu isn’t listed on their website as of now but it currently works with onepass and in the one video demonstration they show a Hulu icon 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dan203

Noelmel said:


> Hopefully since In this latest video she mentions Disney plus any app you download onto it should show up in the unified search results. That would be awesome. I know a lot of people are hoping for YouTube tv as well. Hulu isn't listed on their website as of now but it currently works with onepass and in the one video demonstration they show a Hulu icon


That all depends on their data. TiVo hasn't been the best at getting data from streaming services over the years.

IIRC someone posted a list of Hulu devices a while back in another thread and Android TV was listed as "coming soon" or similar. So not sure if it's actually out yet or not.


----------



## BillyClyde

Noelmel said:


> Hopefully since In this latest video she mentions Disney plus any app you download onto it should show up in the unified search results. That would be awesome. I know a lot of people are hoping for YouTube tv as well. Hulu isn't listed on their website as of now but it currently works with onepass and in the one video demonstration they show a Hulu icon
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I bet dollars to doughnuts that whatever apps that Caavo deep links with are the same ones that the TiVo Stream 4K will deep link with and list in their unified guide.










All Tricks & Treats: Control Center Magic Moments


----------



## Dan203

I wonder when this will come out now. Between manufacturing delays in China, the US basically shutting down for the next 4-6 weeks, and the financial situation due to said shut down will this get pushed back?


----------



## wco81

Ironically at a time when people are going to be staying in more.


----------



## Noelmel

Dan203 said:


> I wonder when this will come out now. Between manufacturing delays in China, the US basically shutting down for the next 4-6 weeks, and the financial situation due to said shut down will this get pushed back?


And they haven't released the "weekly sneek peek" video online in over a week now almost two

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## foghorn2

You figure Tivo would lower the monthly rates now that some of their customers might be suffering.

9.99 for DVRs on Cable cards
5.99 for DVRs hooked up to an antenna.

Lets see how compassionate and caring they really are.


----------



## ufo4sale

foghorn2 said:


> You figure Tivo would lower the monthly rates now that some of their customers might be suffering.
> 
> 9.99 for DVRs on Cable cards
> 5.99 for DVRs hooked up to an antenna.
> 
> Lets see how compassionate and caring they really are.


Their a small company they can't afford it.


----------



## AlvisoShowcase

Noelmel said:


> And they haven't released the "weekly sneek peek" video online in over a week now almost two
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Noelmel

AlvisoShowcase said:


>


Thanks for some reason they didn't put it on the TiVo blog page I had bookmarked yet!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## foghorn2

These two are less than 6ft apart! SHAME THEM!

Notice no channel numbers on the Sling Guide. Pluto has channel numbers, perhaps the num buttons on the remote could be used for that? If eventually it interfaces with the TiVo DVR, it could be used for that for sure.


----------



## Dan203

That's integrated better than I expected. I'm kind of shocked that they partnered with Sling. Given all the bad blood over the lawsuit between TiVo and Dish. But both are essentially in the same boat, bleeding customers and becoming irrelevant, so maybe this was a partnership made out of necessity.


----------



## AlvisoShowcase

foghorn2 said:


> These two are less than 6ft apart! SHAME THEM!
> 
> Notice no channel numbers on the Sling Guide. Pluto has channel numbers, perhaps the num buttons on the remote could be used for that? If eventually it interfaces with the TiVo DVR, it could be used for that for sure.


These may have been recorded some time ago


----------



## Mikeguy

Dan203 said:


> I wonder when this will come out now. Between manufacturing delays in China, the US basically shutting down for the next 4-6 weeks, and the financial situation due to said shut down will this get pushed back?


And we all know how well TiVo does with staying on track.


----------



## Mikeguy

AlvisoShowcase said:


>


As expected, the Guide looks nice. And do I understand correctly that to access it, you'll need to separately purchase a Sling subscription?*

* If so, in other words, what TiVo's Bolt platform was supposed to be bringing forward as part of a unified entertainment center now is a distinct and separate $ line item entry.


----------



## DigitalDawn

How would you integrate OTA Tuner(s) with this and the TiVo streamer?


----------



## Mikeguy

As I understand it, it's done as part of your (paid) Sling subscription with the TiVo Stream 4K device; it's not available (at least currently) otherwise.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

DigitalDawn said:


> How would you integrate OTA Tuner(s) with this and the TiVo streamer?


The integrated live TV demonstrated in that video is streaming from the Sling Live TV service. Sling separately offers integration with an OTA tuner from AirTV, but nothing has been announced about integrating that with this product.

To access another OTA tuner, for example an HD HomeRun Connect Quatro, you would install a separate Android app like HD HomeRun, Channels, or Plex. (Edit: as discussed below with @mdavej, you might need to sideload it.) That app would open outside the integrated interface.

At this time there is no way to access any TiVo tuners from this device, as TiVo has not released the apps demonstrated last year.


----------



## mdavej

Pokemon_Dad said:


> The integrated live TV demonstrated in that video is streaming from the Sling Live TV service. Sling separately offers integration with an OTA tuner from AirTV, but nothing has been announced about integrating that with this product.
> 
> To access another OTA tuner, for example an HD HomeRun Connect Quatro, you would install a separate Android app like HD HomeRun, Channels, or Plex. That app would open outside the integrated interface. At this time there is no way to access any TiVo tuners though, as TiVo has not released the apps demonstrated last year.


All conjecture at this point. We have no idea if any of those OTA DVR apps will be available on this device.

We Channel Master Stream+ users were unpleasantly surprised that our Android TV device had access to a shocking low number of Play Store apps. Same goes for AT&T's Osprey Android TV box. So as far as apps go, I'll believe it when I see it.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

mdavej said:


> All conjecture at this point. We have no idea if any of those OTA DVR apps will be available on this device.
> 
> We Channel Master Stream+ users were unpleasantly surprised that our Android TV device had access to a shocking low number of Play Store apps. Same goes for AT&T's Osprey Android TV box. So as far as apps go, I'll believe it when I see it.


The product page promises "Top streaming services plus over 5,000 apps on Google Play." To your point, that's far less than the total of almost 3 million apps on Google Play. But if all else fails, there's usually a way to sideload. Better yet, forget about this device until TiVo remembers their longtime loyal customers and integrates it with existing TiVo products.


----------



## mdavej

Pokemon_Dad said:


> The product page promises "Top streaming services plus over 5,000 apps on Google Play." To your point, that's far less than the total of almost 3 million apps on Google Play. But if all else fails, there's usually a way to sideload. Better yet, forget about this device until TiVo remembers their longtime loyal customers and integrates it with existing TiVo products.


Been there done that. The Channel Master box promised the same thing, many thousands of apps. Yet it couldn't even run Netflix, Prime, I could go on. Sideloading is a good idea. But it rarely works on Android TV. Most of the apks out there aren't designed for Android TV but for phones (landscape, wrong resolution, won't work with remote). I had to scour the net for a very old Netflix app. Only one specific version would load at all. It ran for a year before a firmware update broke it for good. I had to side load several apps to get Prime working, including some phone apps and connect a bluetooth mouse and keyboard to get everything working. Huge PITA that the average Tivo customer would never tolerate.

On the AT&T box, which runs a custom front end similar to Tivo's device, you can't sideload at all. This will probably be the case with Tivo's device.

I agree that it's best to skip this device until there's actual Tivo integration. Without that, this device adds no value beyond what my Roku, Fire stick and Apple TV already do today, no sideloading required.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

mdavej said:


> I agree that it's best to skip this device until there's actual Tivo integration. Without that, this device adds no value beyond what my Roku, Fire stick and Apple TV already do today, no sideloading required.


There is a Channels DVR app for Android TV, so there's that. But I doubt it would be worth the trouble. Agreed, this product offers too little too late. And that's sad.


----------



## wco81

So you need a subscription for this streaming box on top of Netflix, Hulu, etc. subscriptions?


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

wco81 said:


> So you need a subscription for this streaming box on top of Netflix, Hulu, etc. subscriptions?


In the fine print at the bottom of the product announcement page, if you squint real hard you'll find this: "A Sling TV subscription is required (and sold separately) to access Sling TV live TV and cloud DVR."

Having been in the consumer electronics biz myself, I would have bundled a year's subscription with the price of the device, or at least a month. Who knows, maybe they'll come to their senses and do something like that. Or not. I also wouldn't have buried this in the fine print. I'd hate to be a CSR when the complaints and angry returns start rolling in.


----------



## Noelmel

Pokemon_Dad said:


> In the fine print at the bottom of the product announcement page, if you squint real hard you'll find this: "A Sling TV subscription is required (and sold separately) to access Sling TV live TV and cloud DVR."
> 
> Having been in the consumer electronics biz myself, I would have bundled a year's subscription with the price of the device, or at least a month. Who knows, maybe they'll come to their senses and do something like that. Or not. I also wouldn't have buried this in the fine print. I'd hate to be a CSR when the complaints and angry returns start rolling in.


They just saying you need a sling subscription if you want to use sling. I don't have one and still planning on getting it. You can still use it for all the other apps

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

Noelmel said:


> They just saying you need a sling subscription if you want to use sling. I don't have one and still planning on getting it. You can still use it for all the other apps


Thanks for checking it out. Looking forward to your report. They keep marketing this with Sling, without being clear that it requires an additional subscription. Yet without Sling, and without TiVo integration, I find this less interesting a Fire TV Stick, Roku Stick, etc., or even a super cheap Android TV box. Maybe if the hardware costs less, though that doesn't seem likely. But maybe you'll find some greatness in there somewhere.


----------



## wco81

They must be counting on a certain amount of subscription revenues or a cut of them.

Maybe they make minimal or no margin on the hardware itself.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

wco81 said:


> They must be counting on a certain amount of subscription revenues or a cut of them.
> 
> Maybe they make minimal or no margin on the hardware itself.


I'm sure you're right. But in my experience, it's easier to hook people by getting them started with a free month. Maybe they'll come to their senses and do that by the time it launches.


----------



## Noelmel

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Thanks for checking it out. Looking forward to your report. They keep marketing this with Sling, without being clear that it requires an additional subscription. Yet without Sling, and without TiVo integration, I find this less interesting a Fire TV Stick, Roku Stick, etc., or even a super cheap Android TV box. Maybe if the hardware costs less, though that doesn't seem likely. But maybe you'll find some greatness in there somewhere.


That's just for the cloud dvr and live tv parts to work. And I don't need those. I am getting it at the cheaper launch price in hopes they eventually add ability to stream from other TiVo's to basically become a mini for my bedroom.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## trip1eX

It's just a streaming box. like any other.

except peanut shaped remote.

the integration stuff is stuff Apple already does and maybe Amazon does.

only difference is Tivo will also integrate the cabletv OTT streaming services as well - if you have one. And so far this means Sling only. But it could include others.


----------



## wco81

Noelmel said:


> That's just for the cloud dvr and live tv parts to work. And I don't need those. I am getting it at the cheaper launch price in hopes they eventually add ability to stream from other TiVo's to basically become a mini for my bedroom.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If they did that, wouldn't they want a Tivo subscription for the box?


----------



## janitor53

man, I know I sound like a broken record but they are oh so close to making a device that so many people would want. Give us an OTA product (preferably in ATSC 3.0 since that's what's coming) with the updated apps and specs like atmos, etc. There's no reason to make this so complicated, it's sitting there starring you in the face Tivo.


----------



## Mikeguy

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Thanks for checking it out. Looking forward to your report. They keep marketing this with Sling, without being clear that it requires an additional subscription. Yet without Sling, and without TiVo integration, I find this less interesting a Fire TV Stick, Roku Stick, etc., or even a super cheap Android TV box. Maybe if the hardware costs less, though that doesn't seem likely. But maybe you'll find some greatness in there somewhere.


The saving grace I was seeing was a nice TiVo Guide--a marketing point that TiVo has been hitting. But if you're not paying for a separate Sling subscription (what, a whopping $30 a month?), there goes that. And so, at that point, it's just a nice peanut remote as a differentiator, from the streaming industry leaders. Sigh.


----------



## Noelmel

wco81 said:


> If they did that, wouldn't they want a Tivo subscription for the box?


They already said it's in the plans down the line. Most likely by a fire tv app. Since they said just the roku and Apple TV ones were put on hold.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pfiagra

Noelmel said:


> They already said it's in the plans down the line. Most likely by a fire tv app. Since they said just the roku and Apple TV ones were put on hold.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


source?


----------



## Dan203

I believe TiVo/Rovi is the data provider for Sling, so they’re already making money if you subscribe to Sling. Plus I'm guessing that they get a little kickback for every Sling subscriber who's using one of these TiVo devices.

If they actually start trying to charge the customer a monthly fee this thing is dead in the water.


----------



## Noelmel

pfiagra said:


> source?


That they plan to add streaming or about the apps being put on hold? They're both somewhere in the 644 pages of this thread or the roku/Apple TV apps thread. I've been reading them both so I'm not sure but there was links to interviews from CES

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mikeguy

Noelmel said:


> They already said it's in the plans down the line. Most likely by a fire tv app. Since they said just the roku and Apple TV ones were put on hold.


My recollection is that it was the favorite of every TiVo fan, its CEO David Shull, who said that that could be a possibility. I recall it as having been something mentioned as way nebulous, a "possibility," as vs. an actual plan.

But as we know, what TiVo actually does can change on a dime.


----------



## wco81

No need to hurry with ATSC 3.0 until the silicon becomes dirt cheap.

Going to be a long time before anyone is broadcasting regular programming on ATSC 3.0.


----------



## pfiagra

Noelmel said:


> That they plan to add streaming or about the apps being put on hold? They're both somewhere in the 644 pages of this thread or the roku/Apple TV apps thread. I've been reading them both so I'm not sure but there was links to interviews from CES
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


that only two of the three apps are on hold


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## Noelmel

pfiagra said:


> that only two of the three apps are on hold


TiVo's unreleased Roku and Apple TV apps are

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JeffInDFW

I do wish we could get an update on shipping date. Is it delayed because of Covid19, etc. Anyway have any shipping date info other than just "April"??? I'm actually excited about it and ready to buy now.


----------



## trip1eX

JeffInDFW said:


> I do wish we could get an update on shipping date. Is it delayed because of Covid19, etc. Anyway have any shipping date info other than just "April"??? I'm actually excited about it and ready to buy now.


Just assume it is delayed. Worst case they surprise you and it is released early. Also at the end of the day, it's just a streaming box.


----------



## Teavo

What makes it supposedly better than the king of streaming, Roku? I've looked at the promo stuff and nothing screams that it can outdo Roku or Fire sticks.


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## Dan203

Teavo said:


> What makes it supposedly better than the king of streaming, Roku? I've looked at the promo stuff and nothing screams that it can outdo Roku or Fire sticks.


My main reason for wanting one... the remote. To me the remote on all 3 major streaming boxes suck! This one has a TiVo like remote that should feel more familiar in the hand.

Also if you subscribe to SlingTV it'll integrate directly into the device's main UI, like cable or OTA on a regular TiVo.


----------



## Noelmel

Speaking of the remote they posted the next sneak peek video yesterday on Facebook. Won’t let me share the link. I’ll post when it’s on YouTube. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Teavo

I do like the peanut but my setup uses Harmony remotes so all other remotes I have, including Roku are in a drawer. 

I looked into Sling but it's whole concept is lacking for my needs. I use Philo and Hulu and TiVo for local recordings.


----------



## JeffInDFW

I'm with Dan, that I really value the better Tivo remote. The bigger thing to me....My understanding is that the Tivo Stream 4K would allow me to search for a movie and it would show me which services have that movie. With my Roku I have to load Netflix and searching for a movie and when they don't have it I exit that app and load Prime Video and search for the movie, on and on. My Roku is old, do the new Rokus do this???


----------



## Dan203

Noelmel said:


> Speaking of the remote they posted the next sneak peek video yesterday on Facebook. Won't let me share the link. I'll post when it's on YouTube.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk






__ https://www.facebook.com/


----------



## trip1eX

JeffInDFW said:


> I'm with Dan, that I really value the better Tivo remote. The bigger thing to me....My understanding is that the Tivo Stream 4K would allow me to search for a movie and it would show me which services have that movie. With my Roku I have to load Netflix and searching for a movie and when they don't have it I exit that app and load Prime Video and search for the movie, on and on. My Roku is old, do the new Rokus do this???


I just type "_movie name_ streaming" into google. Voila. ( I don't think you even need to include the word _streaming_. habit on my part. )

AppleTV has a unification UI where you can search for content from various streaming services. I don't use it. Not sure why except I guess I search via google on the computer or phone or ipad and don't search for a specific movie that often.

edit: I just tried it on ATV and I said Batman Begins in the ATV app and it found the movie on netflix. It took a few extra seconds than Google though. But I can just hit play after it finds it. And it plays. Doesn't even show a Netflix logo after I hit play. It did ask me if it's ok if Siri opens up Netflix.

Maybe I'll have to change my habits when searching for a movie. Worked good. Tried it for a few other movies and all came up.

I do wonder how accurate it is or up to date the info will be. That would be a concern for Tivo Stream as well. Is the info accurate/up to date and how slick does it work.


----------



## Noelmel

Dan203 said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/


For some reason Facebook links don't work for me on here always ends in a broken link. Anyways it's on YouTube now too






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SteveD

JeffInDFW said:


> I'm with Dan, that I really value the better Tivo remote. The bigger thing to me....My understanding is that the Tivo Stream 4K would allow me to search for a movie and it would show me which services have that movie. With my Roku I have to load Netflix and searching for a movie and when they don't have it I exit that app and load Prime Video and search for the movie, on and on. My Roku is old, do the new Rokus do this???


My Roku's allow me to search from the Home screen and the results will show all my services where I can watch along with the cost.


----------



## mdavej

**** Red said:


> My Roku's allow me to search from the Home screen and the results will show all my services where I can watch along with the cost.


My Fire stick does the same thing as well.

But Roku is even better in that you can have a wish list. If something isn't streaming yet, you can put it on the list and get notified when it's available.


----------



## foghorn2

Roku is a closed system, you cant load any android app or cant even side-load, to me its pure garbage. Roku just got a big loan, they know their days are numbered.


----------



## Teavo

Roku is the king of streaming devices. Either via plug in device or via a good chunk of TV's with it built in. They aren't going anywhere since the have little competition.


----------



## Dan203

Teavo said:


> Roku is the king of streaming devices. Either via plug in device or via a good chunk of TV's with it built in. They aren't going anywhere since the have little competition.


little competition? I think two of the biggest companies in the world would beg to disagree with that statement. (Amazon and Apple)

Roku *was *the king of streaming. Now they're losing market share and apps are dropping off their platform. All indications are they're in trouble and their days are numbered.


----------



## Teavo

I think this kind of doom and gloom is fake news. The are most likely working on a new phase of development or similar upgrades and so on. 

Firestick is a fair competitor but not near as user friendly. Apple is not right priced for the average household so it will never be the size of Roku.

I don't for one minute believe that Roku will supposedly end anytime soon.


----------



## mattyro7878

No doom and gloom allowed...unless we are talking TIVO; then any apocalyptic future is more than welcome. I dont get it.


----------



## JoeKustra

mattyro7878 said:


> No doom and gloom allowed...unless we are talking TIVO; then any apocalyptic future is more than welcome. I dont get it.


I feel this way. Apple is a galaxy that many many people live in and love. Amazon is another galaxy that has its lovers and many live by. Roku is more of a spaceship that can go from one galaxy to another. It has good days and bad days. Check its stock price. It's not in that trillion dollar universe, but it's quite popular. It works ok and is constantly being improved, including bug fixes. I have a Fire TV and a Roku Ultra. I use the Roku a lot. And there are all those TCL or Sharp Roku televisions. I have one also. In effect, there's nothing to get, there's just opinions. No shortage of those.


----------



## Dan203

Teavo said:


> I think this kind of doom and gloom is fake news. The are most likely working on a new phase of development or similar upgrades and so on.
> 
> Firestick is a fair competitor but not near as user friendly. Apple is not right priced for the average household so it will never be the size of Roku.
> 
> I don't for one minute believe that Roku will supposedly end anytime soon.


Unless they're transitioning to Android then they're going to have trouble. Developers are sick of having to make 5 different apps for all these devices. Almost everything that's not Apple is transitioning to Android TV these days, including most smart TVs. We're likely to end up where we are with phones very soon. Apple in one corner and everyone else using some variant of Android TV in the other. Having a special platform that developers have to support isn't going to fly for much longer.


----------



## trip1eX

Dan203 said:


> Unless they're transitioning to Android then they're going to have trouble. Developers are sick of having to make 5 different apps for all these devices. Almost everything that's not Apple is transitioning to Android TV these days, including most smart TVs. We're likely to end up where we are with phones very soon. Apple in one corner and everyone else using some variant of Android TV in the other. Having a special platform that developers have to support isn't going to fly for much longer.


Roku is the market leader in the streaming box space.


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## Narkul

It's going to take many years for Roku to drop off the map. Too many TCL Roku TVs out there in the living rooms thanks to black fridays.


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## Teavo

Yes, there are millions of smart TVs out there loaded with Roku. When folks think of streaming devices, first thought is Roku. Not Apple TV or even Firestick for that matter.


----------



## Dan203

trip1eX said:


> Roku is the market leader in the streaming box space.


I still think they'll be forced to transition to an Android based OS at some point. It might be highly customized and have it's own store, like the FireTV, but I don't think developers will tolerate having to maintain 4-5 versions of their apps just to appease the users of Roku or Samsung TVs.



Narkul said:


> It's going to take many years for Roku to drop off the map. Too many TCL Roku TVs out there in the living rooms thanks to black fridays.


Developers drop support for smart TVs all the time. My Samsung TV I bought in 2016 was obsolete about 18 months after I bought it when Samsung released a new platform that was incompatible with my TV. That's why I'll never buy another smart TV ever again. Cheaper to replace a $50 stick then to replace the whole TV.


----------



## trip1eX

Dan203 said:


> I still think they'll be forced to transition to an Android based OS at some point. It might be highly customized and have it's own store, like the FireTV, but I don't think developers will tolerate having to maintain 4-5 versions of their apps just to appease the users of Roku or Samsung TVs.


You're putting the cart before the horse. Roku isn't Tivo.


----------



## Teavo

Do they even sell non-smart TV's anymore? I think even the high end stuff is using Roku or similar system. You can't really avoid built in TV streaming if you plan on buying a new TV from here forward.


----------



## trip1eX

Teavo said:


> Do they even sell non-smart TV's anymore? I think even the high end stuff is using Roku or similar system. You can't really avoid built in TV streaming if you plan on buying a new TV from here forward.


Yeah they are all smart tvs now unless you buy the smallest cheapest of the cheap tvs. like 24" ones. There you might be able to find a non-smart tv.


----------



## foghorn2

All smart tvs start going dumb and then die.
Rokus interface is old and boring. FireTv is too AZ centric but at least you can sideload almost any andriod app.
There are no Roku phones. Devs will write apps for apple and andriod only, and maybe windows, not Linux. Goodbye Tivo DVR and Roku apps.


----------



## omelet1978

I have a Roku Ultra and as of now I can't see myself getting the Tivo Stream right away.

I'd have to verify all the apps that I use would work (spotify for example) and then see the reviews. The reason I say that is bc Tivo has a bad habit of releasing beta products and then fixing them over the course of a year or so. I'm not sure this Tivo Stream device will be any different. I want it to succeed though but the Roku Ultra I have is to good I'll just have to wait for the reviews.


----------



## Narkul

Dan203 said:


> I still think they'll be forced to transition to an Android based OS at some point. It might be highly customized and have it's own store, like the FireTV, but I don't think developers will tolerate having to maintain 4-5 versions of their apps just to appease the users of Roku or Samsung TVs.
> 
> Developers drop support for smart TVs all the time. My Samsung TV I bought in 2016 was obsolete about 18 months after I bought it when Samsung released a new platform that was incompatible with my TV. That's why I'll never buy another smart TV ever again. Cheaper to replace a $50 stick then to replace the whole TV.


I walked along the Walmart TV wall and it was Roku Roku Roku Android (Samsung I think) Roku Roku Roku Roku Roku. Not even one FireTV based television.

edit: I forgot Walmart's not going to sell anything Amazon related. Still a lot of Roku though.


----------



## foghorn2

Narkul said:


> I walked along the Walmart TV wall and it was Roku Roku Roku Android (Samsung I think) Roku Roku Roku Roku Roku. Not even one FireTV based television.
> 
> edit: I forgot Walmart's not going to sell anything Amazon related. Still a lot of Roku though.


Bunch of garbage Chinese Rokus not selling very well at Walmart looks like.


----------



## Teavo

foghorn2 said:


> Bunch of garbage Chinese Rokus not selling very well at Walmart looks like.


So what's your preferred non Chinese streaming device?


----------



## foghorn2

Teavo said:


> So what's your preferred non Chinese streaming device?


AirTV Mini 4k (andriod)


----------



## Teavo

Looks decent but made for Sling users mainly, and I have no desire to use Sling. Seems like a limited device that I guess is only found online.


----------



## foghorn2

Teavo said:


> Looks decent but made for Sling users mainly, and I have no desire to use Sling. Seems like a limited device that I guess is only found online.


Has the full andriod tv interface. I can watch the streaming channels I like (esp Food Network and NatGeo) and local channels with Sling (with the AirTv Tuner) and then go to Kodi to view TV Shows and Movies in ISO format from the Nas, then go to Vudu and Amazon for my paid digital and free content, then go to Pluto to channel browse, then YouTube for user content ect, ect.. the options are endless. The only thing missing is access to my Tivo DVR. There is no Hulu but I dont care, never watch or care for it.

No need to change remotes. The TiVo Stream 4K is this same device with the TiVo interface and better remote.


----------



## philco782

I've got two TCL Roku TVs. Love em. It's hard to see Roku losing steam anytime soon.


----------



## Dan203

philco782 said:


> I've got two TCL Roku TVs. Love em. It's hard to see Roku losing steam anytime soon.


It's all about developers. If developers don't want to support a system they don't have to. Roku is playing a dangerous game of "we have a lot of users, so developers have to support our proprietary system". But they don't. If just one or two of the big streaming providers dumped Roku then they're dead. The developers have to support iOS and Android because they have mobile apps too. And likely will support HTML5 because they have websites as well. But Roku devices are the only devices that need a special Roku app. That's a dangerous place to be.


----------



## tommiet

Wonder if this new streaming device will come with free guide ads... Also.. Remember the apps that Tivo told us they would provide *LAST year*!

Still waiting..... Err.. Not really...


----------



## Dan203

tommiet said:


> Also.. Remember the apps that Tivo told us they would provide *LAST year*!
> 
> Still waiting..... Err.. Not really...


Canceled. All but Android/FireTV version.


----------



## mrizzo80

April still the release timeframe? Early or late in the month?

I’m still happy with my switch to a Firestick 4K a year ago, but I really miss having a unified playlist for streaming shows. FireTV is not good with that, but they do have much better metadata than this TiVo offering will have. 

I’m also waiting for the new AppleTV hardware.


----------



## SullyND

foghorn2 said:


> AirTV Mini 4k (andriod)


----------



## Triride44

I'm looking forward to getting a TiVo Stream 4K. Hope its as fast as my Nvidia Shield TV when changing channels on SLING TV, if so I'll get a second one. If not I'll add it to my collection of old failed streamers. 

I have had ROKU's since 2008 XD/S (retired). And presently use two Roku sticks+. Roku was the first streaming device and been ahead of the completion until now. They have a large users base, and are easy for beginners to use. Advanced users like members here are looking for more tech. from a streamer. I don't see ROKU going away anytime soon.


----------



## Noelmel

foghorn2 said:


> There is no Hulu but I dont care, never watch or care for it


Originally on Tivo website I noticed no Hulu like you say but most of their sneak peek videos posted do show a Hulu icon like how a onepass does currently in the show info









Also the email they sent about it a few weeks ago mentions Hulu and if you watch the video in background the tv shows Hulu icon










And this tweet? (Click for picture)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1214945591295279105
I'm getting one and Hulu would be one of the main things I watch so I hope it does have it!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## foghorn2

Right, I bet theres something bad between Hulu and Sling. and thats why its not there...yet.

Maybe hulu live? I can see why they would not want that on there.


----------



## foghorn2

Dan203 said:


> It's all about developers. If developers don't want to support a system they don't have to. Roku is playing a dangerous game of "we have a lot of users, so developers have to support our proprietary system". But they don't. If just one or two of the big streaming providers dumped Roku then they're dead. The developers have to support iOS and Android because they have mobile apps too. And likely will support HTML5 because they have websites as well. But Roku devices are the only devices that need a special Roku app. That's a dangerous place to be.


HD-DVD , BetaMax, 8-track, Zune, Windows Phone, OS2, DRDOS, Compaq, Compuserve,..... and soon Tivo dvrs and Roku....


----------



## foghorn2

SullyND said:


> View attachment 47395


The Chinese Stick 4k , Thats Racist!!!


----------



## trip1eX

Dan203 said:


> It's all about developers. If developers don't want to support a system they don't have to. Roku is playing a dangerous game of "we have a lot of users, so developers have to support our proprietary system". But they don't. If just one or two of the big streaming providers dumped Roku then they're dead. The developers have to support iOS and Android because they have mobile apps too. And likely will support HTML5 because they have websites as well. But Roku devices are the only devices that need a special Roku app. That's a dangerous place to be.


They have to support Roku because they are the market leader in streaming boxes. They have the most users on streaming boxes.

So Roku isn't going anywhere unless they start losing users. That's when developers will start to think twice about supporting them.

Developers don't decide out of thin air to not support the market leader.

Also contrary to you what you say, someone like Netflix became very successful by supporting a ton of platforms: Videogame consoles, videogame handhelds, dvrs, dvd players, BR players, streaming boxes, phones, tvs, computers, ...


----------



## Noelmel

foghorn2 said:


> Right, I bet theres something bad between Hulu and Sling. and thats why its not there...yet.
> 
> Maybe hulu live? I can see why they would not want that on there.


I edited my other post and added another pic from an email I got 2 weeks ago so it seems it will support Hulu. It evens says at the bottom in the notes like Hulu subscription is required for Hulu content. Netflix subscription is required for Netflix content... etc

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## tommiet

Dan203 said:


> Canceled. All but Android/FireTV version.


AND.... A Year later.....Nothing.

SURPRISE!


----------



## morac

Dan203 said:


> It's all about developers. If developers don't want to support a system they don't have to. Roku is playing a dangerous game of "we have a lot of users, so developers have to support our proprietary system". But they don't. If just one or two of the big streaming providers dumped Roku then they're dead. The developers have to support iOS and Android because they have mobile apps too. And likely will support HTML5 because they have websites as well. But Roku devices are the only devices that need a special Roku app. That's a dangerous place to be.


Developers support the devices people are using. Right now Roku has 25% more devices than the closest competitor with expected growth to be 66% more by year's end. I don't see developers dropping support for Roku any time soon.

Edit: I just realized that was 2019 Roku should have double the number of devices of their closest competitors by now.


----------



## JoeKustra

morac said:


> Developers support the devices people are using. Right now Roku has 25% more devices than the closest competitor with expected growth to be 66% more by year's end. I don't see developers dropping support for Roku any time soon.


Looks similar to their stock price curve (until last week, of course).


----------



## Noelmel

mrizzo80 said:


> April still the release timeframe? Early or late in the month?


The Tivo website and blog now say coming soon. I'm almost positive they both said coming this April...

I really hope it doesn't get pushed back and they already had them made before the virus

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MileHigh96

Dan203 said:


> little competition? I think two of the biggest companies in the world would beg to disagree with that statement. (Amazon and Apple)
> 
> Roku *was *the king of streaming. Now they're losing market share and apps are dropping off their platform. All indications are they're in trouble and their days are numbered.


Really? What apps (that anyone actually cares about) are dropping off their platform? I've yet to see an app I use, even rarely, drop off my Roku, and I have currently 72 channels on it. And they are all being consistently updated.

We get it, you hate Roku, but you're obviously in the minority or else they would not be the streaming leader AND they would be losing customers, neither of which is currently happening.


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## Teavo

I wonder what Roku did to him to make him hate them so much.


----------



## Narkul

foghorn2 said:


> Bunch of garbage Chinese Rokus not selling very well at Walmart looks like.


Practically all their televisions are running on the Roku platform. I've never visited a Walmart where I didn't see someone in line with a TV in or on a buggy so I'd say they're moving well. Walmart is quick to move out anything that doesn't sell, it's part of the reason why they've been so successful so long. All their TVs appear to be current models.

Besides, Roku seems to have it all


----------



## Narkul

Teavo said:


> I wonder what Roku did to him to make him hate them so much.


Too hard to pirate on.


----------



## Teavo

Didn't think about that. I guess if that's your thing, yes, Roku is not going to work for you.

Thankfully though it serves millions of people quite well.


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## Teavo

I bet within next 1 to 2 years AirTV is out of business. Not enough folks buying into it to stay relevant.


----------



## wmcbrine

Dan203 said:


> It's all about developers. If developers don't want to support a system they don't have to.


Individual developers may act on whims. Developers working for large corporations will follow market share.









- https://www.multichannel.com/news/roku-controls-43-percent-of-connected-tv-viewing-hours



> _The developers have to support iOS and Android because they have mobile apps too. ... But Roku devices are the only devices that need a special Roku app._


The Apple TV doesn't run iOS apps. It uses the related but distinct "tvOS".


----------



## shwru980r

With the current economic environment, I think this new streaming stick from Tivo is going to be DOA. I think Tivo should delay the release and add connectivity to legacy Tivos.


----------



## pfiagra

I hope this streamer is successful and it causes TiVo to resurrect the Mavrik.

I like Amazon’s approach: cheap streamer with an option to add OTA recording.


----------



## Noelmel

shwru980r said:


> With the current economic environment, I think this new streaming stick from Tivo is going to be DOA. I think Tivo should delay the release and add connectivity to legacy Tivos.


While I def want connectivity to my TiVo as soon as possible so I can put this in the bedroom TV. I still can't wait to get my hands on this. I get what you're saying but on the other hand tons of people are also stuck at home watching tv streaming more than ever.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Teavo

Honestly, I wish TiVo didn't kill the TiVo app for Roku and other streamers. Now that I'd use.


----------



## shwru980r

Noelmel said:


> While I def want connectivity to my TiVo as soon as possible so I can put this in the bedroom TV. I still can't wait to get my hands on this. I get what you're saying but on the other hand tons of people are also stuck at home watching tv streaming more than ever.


Tivo is looking to force intrusive ads on their customers. Why have the added expense of a cloud DVR if you are still going to be forced to watch commercials?


----------



## Teavo

I have not seen that on my Roamio.


----------



## Noelmel

Teavo said:


> Honestly, I wish TiVo didn't kill the TiVo app for Roku and other streamers. Now that I'd use.


I know that woulda been their best bet. I already have an Apple TV and a Roku smart TV.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Noelmel

shwru980r said:


> Tivo is looking to force intrusive ads on their customers. Why have the added expense of a cloud DVR if you are still going to be forced to watch commercials?


I still haven't got any ads in my Roamio and don't want them and haven't even tried Tivo+ and haven't accepted the TOS. I don't really want the new Tivo stream for the cloud DVR or sling functions. I hope they eventually add ability to connect to my living room TiVo. I cannot get a mini due to no Ethernet or MoCA and can't get the new wifi adaptor because I don't have the 5ghz network required apparently from what I've researched

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Teavo

Noelmel said:


> I still haven't got any ads in my Roamio and don't want them and haven't even tried Tivo+ and haven't accepted the TOS. I don't really want the new Tivo stream for the cloud DVR or sling functions. I hope they eventually add ability to connect to my living room TiVo. I cannot get a mini due to no Ethernet or MoCA and can't get the new wifi adaptor because I don't have the 5ghz network required apparently from what I've researched
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Why not just connect mini to a wifi extender or like mine, to a mesh network pod?


----------



## JoeKustra

Noelmel said:


> .....can't get the new wifi adaptor because I don't have the 5ghz network required apparently from what I've researched


The wifi 5 for the Mini Vox is cute, but I would get a 2.4GHz adapter with a good return policy. However, it sounds like your router is old and may not have the power needed for a good wifi connection. BTW, I run my Roku, Blu-Ray and two televisions at 2.4GHz. They don't care, but I have a very good router.

Many have had luck with powerline adapters also.


----------



## Noelmel

JoeKustra said:


> The wifi 5 for the Mini Vox is cute, but I would get a 2.4GHz adapter with a good return policy. However, it sounds like your router is old and may not have the power needed for a good wifi connection. BTW, I run my Roku, Blu-Ray and two televisions at 2.4GHz. They don't care, but I have a very good router.
> 
> Many have had luck with powerline adapters also.


Yes apparently when I googled my router is like 10 years old lol but works fine for streaming Hulu, Netflix and everything else

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## k2ue

Dan203 said:


> It's all about developers. If developers don't want to support a system they don't have to. Roku is playing a dangerous game of "we have a lot of users, so developers have to support our proprietary system". But they don't. If just one or two of the big streaming providers dumped Roku then they're dead. The developers have to support iOS and Android because they have mobile apps too. And likely will support HTML5 because they have websites as well. But Roku devices are the only devices that need a special Roku app. That's a dangerous place to be.


Yes, and Channels DVR hasn't supported a Roku client because of limitations on the streams it can handle, unlike Android, Fire TV, etc. And Roku is dropping support for their own early models for lack of capability even within their own universe.


----------



## DeltaOne

Noelmel said:


> I still haven't got any ads in my Roamio and don't want them


I hope you never do, but there have been at least three posters here (myself included) that recently started getting pre-roll ads on our Roamio's. I called TiVo yesterday to opt-out.


----------



## Hamstring

I was getting the pre roll and now it’s gone. I don’t know. It was so odd I didn’t realize it was the pre roll ads.


----------



## Kevin Morris

Ok.. it's April. Where's the launch of the streamer 4k?


----------



## omelet1978

Kevin Morris said:


> Ok.. it's April. Where's the launch of the streamer 4k?







My response to your question after using Tivo for years and seeing them always be late...


----------



## Triride44

"APRIL FOOL"...……. hope not


----------



## BillyClyde

Kevin Morris said:


> Ok.. it's April. Where's the launch of the streamer 4k?


FWIW, I spoke with a TiVo CSR yesterday who confirmed it's still an April release, despite Coronavirus concerns. She just wasn't allowed to confirm an actual date.


----------



## Noelmel

BillyClyde said:


> FWIW, I spoke with a TiVo CSR yesterday who confirmed it's still an April release, despite Coronavirus concerns. She just wasn't allowed to confirm an actual date.


Awesome! Can't wait to try it out and stuck home with plenty of time to mess with it lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BillyClyde

Noelmel said:


> Awesome! Can't wait to try it out and stuck home with plenty of time to mess with it lol
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Although, she didn't say _which_ April!


----------



## Narkul

April 31st


----------



## Kevin Morris

BillyClyde said:


> Although, she didn't say _which_ April!


Well now, that's just mean!!! lol


----------



## omelet1978

Do we have any predictions for the quality of the software when it's released?

When Hydra was released it was pretty buggy from reading the forums on here. I have a Roku Ultra that is really really good so I'm going to wait for the reviews. That being said, I hope they can release a stable/non-beta product. If they do it could potentially be a hit with consumers since it offers the equivalent of a unified inbox for streaming. That being said, given Tivo's history, I'm thinking they'll release an unfinished product and then by the time fall runs around it'll be patched up and working correctly.


----------



## trip1eX

omelet1978 said:


> Do we have any predictions for the quality of the software when it's released?
> 
> When Hydra was released it was pretty buggy from reading the forums on here. I have a Roku Ultra that is really really good so I'm going to wait for the reviews. That being said, I hope they can release a stable/non-beta product. If they do it could potentially be a hit with consumers since it offers the equivalent of a unified inbox for streaming. That being said, given Tivo's history, I'm thinking they'll release an unfinished product and then by the time fall runs around it'll be patched up and working correctly.


 I doubt it will be better than the ATV. ATV is a unified box for streaming too btw including cable content. According to Apple: "Watch cable TV outside
the box. Enjoy all the top-rated prime-time TV shows, live sports, and news - from leading cable providers - on demand right in the Apple TV app." Then they list ATT TV and Spectrum.


----------



## Dan203

omelet1978 said:


> Do we have any predictions for the quality of the software when it's released?
> 
> When Hydra was released it was pretty buggy from reading the forums on here. I have a Roku Ultra that is really really good so I'm going to wait for the reviews. That being said, I hope they can release a stable/non-beta product. If they do it could potentially be a hit with consumers since it offers the equivalent of a unified inbox for streaming. That being said, given Tivo's history, I'm thinking they'll release an unfinished product and then by the time fall runs around it'll be patched up and working correctly.


The underlying software of the whole thing has been around since December 2018 so it's probably pretty stable. The biggest difference here is that instead of integrating with a cloud DVR provided by an MSO they're integrating with SlingTV. So maybe the Sling part is a bit buggy at first, but I suspect the rest will be pretty stable.


----------



## jaselzer

I am a true TiVo fan and when this comes out I will definitely buy. However, there is no way this is coming out this April.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CybrFyre

Noelmel said:


> The Tivo website and blog now say coming soon. I'm almost positive they both said coming this April...
> 
> I really hope it doesn't get pushed back and they already had them made before the virus
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


only Tivo could fail that badly to miss the window of people being stuck at home.

Sent from my Google Pixel Slate using Tapatalk


----------



## jaselzer

Honestly, the worst part is that TiVo elects to say absolutely nothing about the release. Rather than treat their customers and potential customers with some respect, they simply ignore them. TiVo is completely ignorant as to how a consumer products company should be run. And perhaps that is the point: they really don’t look at themselves as a consumer products company anymore. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mikeguy

CybrFyre said:


> only Tivo could fail that badly to miss the window of people being stuck at home.


Don't worry--people will continue being at home for months, yet . . . .


----------



## cwoody222

jaselzer said:


> Honestly, the worst part is that TiVo elects to say absolutely nothing about the release. Rather than treat their customers and potential customers with some respect, they simply ignore them. TiVo is completely ignorant as to how a consumer products company should be run. And perhaps that is the point: they really don't look at themselves as a consumer products company anymore.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


huh? They said it'll be out in April. They have videos on their social media and website about it. You can signup for emails for more info from them.

Are you expecting the CEO to personally call you to discuss your product delay fears?

They are operating exactly like every other company would be expected to.

They have a new product coming out soon. They have been promoting it. When it's ready, it'll be for sale.

I don't know what more you want or why you are so angry with them.


----------



## aaronwt

Do they still plan on it being discounted $20 or so at launch? That is the only time I will buy one. Because even that introductory price will be pushing it.

I do have a Best Buy gift card ready to use for my purchase though.

Sent from my Tab A 10.1


----------



## Dan203

aaronwt said:


> Do they still plan on it being discounted $20 or so at launch? That is the only time I will buy one. Because even that introductory price will be pushing it.
> 
> I do have a Best Buy gift card ready to use for my purchase though.
> 
> Sent from my Tab A 10.1


Your max for a streaming device is $30? How did we get to a point where we expect products of this level of functionality for $30? To me it seems like a bargain at $50. I'd probably buy one for 2x that if I had to. The current generation Mini is like $180.


----------



## Noelmel

Dan203 said:


> Your max for a streaming device is $30? How did we get to a point where we expect products of this level of functionality for $30? To me it seems like a bargain at $50. I'd probably buy one for 2x that if I had to. The current generation Mini is like $180.


I think they announced it will be $70 but $50 only at launch

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dan203

Noelmel said:


> I think they announced it will be $70 but $50 only at launch


Even $70 seems fine to me.


----------



## Teavo

They would be wise to try to stick to around $50 launch price since Roku is King and offers several budget to high end options at every big box stores. Many folks probably don't know what TiVo is these days so breaking into this streamer market is going to be rough.


----------



## Dan203

Teavo said:


> They would be wise to try to stick to around $50 launch price since Roku is King and offers several budget to high end options at every big box stores. Many folks probably don't know what TiVo is these days so breaking into this streamer market is going to be rough.


Perhaps, but people also buy AppleTVs for $200. So there is quite a bit of price flexibility in this space. The only other major AndroidTV stream I know if is the Nvidia Shield and that's $180.

I'm not TiVo should be focused on competing at the very bottom of the price spectrum.


----------



## Teavo

I think AppleTV's are purchased by a more limited group of customers and not the everyday streamer. That crowd would gladly pay the $180 price tag.


----------



## lparsons21

Teavo said:


> I think AppleTV's are purchased by a more limited group of customers and not the everyday streamer. That crowd would gladly pay the $180 price tag.


Probably true. But then again, there are those of us that like the stability, speed and overall excellence of how the AppleTV compared to the competition.

Things like better audio performance, the best video quality an app is able to provide and the speed we get when switching apps.

So yeah, it isn't the cheapest solution, it just is an excellent one. I have the FireTV Cube and a Roku device, and while they are good in their own way, they aren't nearly as good as the AppleTV IMO.

Tivo has dropped the ball IMO. The current Tivo line should include much more in the way of streaming apps and certainly should have the latest versions of those. I would prefer to have my Tivo do it all. IMO, Tivo has been resting on those patent licenses way too long while not doing much to improve their actual product line.


----------



## Dan203

lparsons21 said:


> Tivo has dropped the ball IMO. The current Tivo line should include much more in the way of streaming apps and certainly should have the latest versions of those. I would prefer to have my Tivo do it all. IMO, Tivo has been resting on those patent licenses way too long while not doing much to improve their actual product line.


They don't have a lot of control over that. They use a platform based on the HTML5 spec and an Opera browser. Essentially the same platform used by older Samsung TVs and BD players. Unfortunately they also require apps to be submitted directly to them, which just adds another layer developers have to go through.

This new device will be based on AndroidTV so it'll have full access to the Play store, which means it'll be much easier for developers to support.


----------



## lparsons21

Dan203 said:


> They don't have a lot of control over that. They use a platform based on the HTML5 spec and an Opera browser. Essentially the same platform used by older Samsung TVs and BD players. Unfortunately they also require apps to be submitted directly to them, which just adds another layer developers have to go through.
> 
> This new device will be based on AndroidTV so it'll have full access to the Play store, which means it'll be much easier for developers to support.


That's a flimsy excuse IMO. They have complete control over the design of their hardware and could have switched long ago to Android or some other, better framework. They chose not to.

When I cut the cord the plan was to use my Bolt with OTA and the few streaming apps it has. But the streaming apps on it are so poor I just quit using them. Now I use an AppleTV all the time, sub to YouTubeTV to get all my locals just as well plus a broad range of other channels. YTTV's search is excellent, but AppleTV's AppleTV app does a great job of cross app search as well, better than Tivo does since it does it for more sources. That holds true for Roku for sure, and possibly FireTV.

IMO, Tivo dropped the ball and has not yet decided whether to actually get back into the game. I used to recommend Tivo to friends, I wouldn't do that now. Overpriced and underperforming are the two best descriptors of current Tivo offerings.


----------



## Dan203

lparsons21 said:


> That's a flimsy excuse IMO. They have complete control over the design of their hardware and could have switched long ago to Android or some other, better framework. They chose not to.
> 
> When I cut the cord the plan was to use my Bolt with OTA and the few streaming apps it has. But the streaming apps on it are so poor I just quit using them. Now I use an AppleTV all the time, sub to YouTubeTV to get all my locals just as well plus a broad range of other channels. YTTV's search is excellent, but AppleTV's AppleTV app does a great job of cross app search as well, better than Tivo does since it does it for more sources. That holds true for Roku for sure, and possibly FireTV.
> 
> IMO, Tivo dropped the ball and has not yet decided whether to actually get back into the game. I used to recommend Tivo to friends, I wouldn't do that now. Overpriced and underperforming are the two best descriptors of current Tivo offerings.


Oh I agree that TiVo should have switched their main product over to AndroidTV a long time ago. In fact, up until it's release, I was convinced the Edge would be that device. But sadly that wasn't the case. They've also fallen behind on a viable app for this new device that allows it to control their main DVRs. So they're essentially two separate and unrelated products instead of an integrated family.

But in reality CableCARD is dying. I was actually shocked they even bothered with the Edge given it's prospects. So I understand why they might want to just get away from DVRs completely and focus on their branded UI integrating with other services, like SlingTV.


----------



## Teavo

Tivo's other hurdle is they have pretty much no shelf space in places like BB, Walmart, Target, and similar stores. If I can find a TiVo box at BB it's usually just one box tucked away in a bottom shelf surrounded by Roku stuff and a handful of knock of DVR boxes.

Also what really hurts TiVo is the price tag. Meaning if you find a DVR, it's $300+, then you get hit with a huge fee to buy their lifetime plan. So a consumer could be out close to well over $600 to join TiVo world.


----------



## Dan203

Teavo said:


> Tivo's other hurdle is they have pretty much no shelf space in places like BB, Walmart, Target, and similar stores. If I can find a TiVo box at BB it's usually just one box tucked away in a bottom shelf surrounded by Roku stuff and a handful of knock of DVR boxes.
> 
> Also what really hurts TiVo is the price tag. Meaning if you find a DVR, it's $300+, then you get hit with a huge fee to buy their lifetime plan. So a consumer could be out close to well over $600 to join TiVo world.


People still shop at BestBuy?


----------



## lparsons21

Teavo said:


> Tivo's other hurdle is they have pretty much no shelf space in places like BB, Walmart, Target, and similar stores. If I can find a TiVo box at BB it's usually just one box tucked away in a bottom shelf surrounded by Roku stuff and a handful of knock of DVR boxes.
> 
> Also what really hurts TiVo is the price tag. Meaning if you find a DVR, it's $300+, then you get hit with a huge fee to buy their lifetime plan. So a consumer could be out close to well over $600 to join TiVo world.


Yep, that lack of retail shelf space is really a bite in the butt for them! Our local BB has had Tivos at times but generally just the main box, no minis in sight.

And that price point is another issue. Here's a valid comparison.

Tivo Edge for OTA - box price plus subscription at about $600. Comes with a very few streaming apps, mostly old versions.

Amazon FireTV Recast - 4 tuner, about $280 all in. That covers the OTA and DVR part. Then a couple FireTV sticks that are cheap.

So if Tivo wants to play in that sandbox they've got to do something about pricing and the streaming app situation. Or just fold up the tent and go home! Personally, as much as I dislike the idea of Tivo as a company not staying around, I dislike more that they couldn't or wouldn't see the handwriting on the wall.


----------



## Teavo

Sure do. Before lockdown I'd buy all kinds of stuff there, from games, to printers, ink, tvs, smartwatches, kitchen appliances, and many other things. They price match so that works for me. Buy same day, use same day, buy local.


----------



## Kevin Morris

I reached out to Jared at Cord Cutter news, and he was kind enough to contact Tivo. They said that the release is on schedule, and that there would be an enouncment very soon. That is all they would say.


----------



## Noelmel

Kevin Morris said:


> I reached out to Jared at Cord Cutter news, and he was kind enough to contact Tivo. They said that the release is on schedule, and that there would be an enouncment very soon. That is all they would say.


Awesome thanks so much I'm excited!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dan203

Teavo said:


> Sure do. Before lockdown I'd buy all kinds of stuff there, from games, to printers, ink, tvs, smartwatches, kitchen appliances, and many other things. They price match so that works for me. Buy same day, use same day, buy local.


I haven't been inside our local BestBuy in 3 years. And even then it was for pickup of an online order.

I don't really consider BestBuy "local". They're a huge corporation no different than WalMart or Costco.


----------



## Teavo

Different strokes.


----------



## dadrepus

Dan203 said:


> People still shop at BestBuy?


Bought 2 TV's there for Christmas.


----------



## Dan203

dadrepus said:


> Bought 2 TV's there for Christmas.


Did shelf space matter? Or did you research what you wanted before you went in?


----------



## trip1eX

can't wait to start streaming Netflix. Very exciting to know a peanut remote will be next to me on the couch while I watch a show with continuous play and no ads.  Sorry couldn't resist. 

It will be interesting to see the product but not exciting. IT's just a streaming box. 

And integration of streaming services is overrated. Maybe if a person has 10 streaming services or something. But my experience is I have just a few of them at any one time and, on Apple Tv, switching between streaming apps is instant and usually it picks up where you left off. It's not like switching between streaming apps on a Roamio Plus where it takes 2 minutes for the app to load. 

I might change my mind on that at some point. But AppleTV does the integration thing and I just don't feel compelled to use it. IT looks like it works good enough, but I just haven't felt the need yet.


----------



## dadrepus

Dan203 said:


> Did shelf space matter? Or did you research what you wanted before you went in?


A little of both, read the reviews at HD Guru and a few other sites. Then went in to the store and looked at each tv in my list and bought there. Tried buying one from Amazon first. Slightly better price but came with a shattered screen. Returning it was not a hassle but I decided a store was a safer bet at that point.


----------



## Teavo

Dan203 said:


> Did shelf space matter? Or did you research what you wanted before you went in?


Why would any of that matter in relation to buying at a local store?


----------



## dadrepus

I think what he meant by shelf space was "Display Space" meaning did I buy unseen or did I physically go to a store so I can see them on the shelf, right?


----------



## BillyClyde

trip1eX said:


> can't wait to start streaming Netflix. *Very exciting to know a peanut remote will be next to me on the couch while I watch a show* with continuous play and no ads.  Sorry couldn't resist.............


You can actually program a TiVo peanut remote to work with your AppleTV, and use that instead of their crappy touchpad POS. (You probably already know this, but others may not). I did that for my wife mainly, as she was going to scrap the idea of using ATV totally, just because of that horrific remote!


----------



## janitor53

BillyClyde said:


> You can actually program a TiVo peanut remote to work with your AppleTV, and use that instead of their crappy touchpad POS. (You probably already know this, but others may not). I did that for my wife mainly, as she was going to scrap the idea of using ATV totally, just because of that horrific remote!


can you do that AND have it work with a Tivo though?


----------



## BillyClyde

janitor53 said:


> can you do that AND have it work with a Tivo though?


Yes I believe so, because you're not changing the TiVo remote's codes. You're just telling the AppleTV to respond to the TiVo remote's IR signal. You program each of the control buttons (play, stop etc. ) during setup on the AppleTV.


----------



## SullyND

One of my peanuts has a 1/2 switch. I used to have 2 set to control my 1G AppleTV.


----------



## Dan203

dadrepus said:


> I think what he meant by shelf space was "Display Space" meaning did I buy unseen or did I physically go to a store so I can see them on the shelf, right?


Yes. Just wondering if you actually went there to "shop" or just went there to buy something you had already decided to get.


----------



## Dan203

BillyClyde said:


> Yes I believe so, because you're not changing the TiVo remote's codes. You're just telling the AppleTV to respond to the TiVo remote's IR signal. You program each of the control buttons (play, stop etc. ) during setup on the AppleTV.


That would be bad though. At least if they were in the same room.


----------



## dadrepus

BillyClyde said:


> Yes I believe so, because you're not changing the TiVo remote's codes. You're just telling the AppleTV to respond to the TiVo remote's IR signal. You program each of the control buttons (play, stop etc. ) during setup on the AppleTV.


But if you have them side by side wouldn't you be affecting both units whenever you push a button? I think in that situation, if you had an extra peanut you could, unlink one to the tivo, but then you better label them some how.


----------



## dadrepus

Dan203 said:


> That would be bad though. At least if they were in the same room.


Hay Dan, we had the same thought.


----------



## trip1eX

BillyClyde said:


> You can actually program a TiVo peanut remote to work with your AppleTV, and use that instead of their crappy touchpad POS. (You probably already know this, but others may not). I did that for my wife mainly, as she was going to scrap the idea of using ATV totally, just because of that horrific remote!


I like the ATV remote. And I was joking about the peanut remote in case that wasn't clear. I find the ATV remote perfectly serviceable although I know it has its haters. I like the minimalist nature. And never had any hate for it.


----------



## jaselzer

cwoody222 said:


> huh? They said it'll be out in April. They have videos on their social media and website about it. You can signup for emails for more info from them.
> 
> Are you expecting the CEO to personally call you to discuss your product delay fears?
> 
> They are operating exactly like every other company would be expected to.
> 
> They have a new product coming out soon. They have been promoting it. When it's ready, it'll be for sale.
> 
> I don't know what more you want or why you are so angry with them.


Wow, woke up on the wrong side of the bed? But to answer your question about whether I expect the CEO to personally contact me. My answer is no. I do not expect the CEO to personally contact me. I expect TiVo to update the website about the release date.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cwoody222

Their website is updated with all the info they're prepared to give right now.

Just because it's not what you want to hear doesn't mean they're wrong.


----------



## jaselzer

“Wrong”: Do you have a problem with me voicing my opinion? It certainly seems that way. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## pfiagra

jaselzer said:


> "Wrong": Do you have a problem with me voicing my opinion? It certainly seems that way.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Do you have a problem with engaging in a respectful conversation with others?


----------



## Narkul

Dan203 said:


> Yes. Just wondering if you actually went there to "shop" or just went there to buy something you had already decided to get.


I usually go to Best Buy for something specific, but end up looking all over the store. Sometimes I see something online and end up going to Best Buy (or any other box store) to take a closer look, see it in action, etc. Sometimes I'll just buy it on the spot for instant gratification rather than wait for an online shipment.


----------



## BillyClyde

Dan203 said:


> That would be bad though. At least if they were in the same room.





dadrepus said:


> But if you have them side by side wouldn't you be affecting both units whenever you push a button? I think in that situation, if you had an extra peanut you could, unlink one to the tivo, but then you better label them some how.


Yeah that's definitely a downfall, but if you're giving up the TiVo in favor of a streaming solution then its remote isn't needed anymore and can be used for the ATV.

In my case I was testing Channels DVR so did have them both up and running at the same time. What I did was use an old DirecTiVo peanut remote, which has a different IR code apparently and didn't affect the TiVo mini right next to the ATV. Also, someone mentioned using the TiVo remote with the 1/2 switch.


----------



## aaronwt

Dan203 said:


> Your max for a streaming device is $30? How did we get to a point where we expect products of this level of functionality for $30? To me it seems like a bargain at $50. I'd probably buy one for 2x that if I had to. The current generation Mini is like $180.


?? I thought the launch price was $50? $20 lower than the normal price of $70.
I already have two ATV4K boxes, Three SHield TVs, Three 4K ROkus, three 4K Fire TV sticks, two UHD BD players, two XB1s, and two PS4s. Not to mention several Popcorn hour streamers and a Netgear streamer. I have at least two of most every major streamer. I will be getting the TiVo streamer to see how I like it. But it would need to be a homerun for it to be worth $70 to me. I'll bite at $50 though at the launch price.


----------



## aaronwt

Dan203 said:


> People still shop at BestBuy?


Why not? They match the prices of the major online retailers. So I can stop by on my way home to pick something up. Instead of having to wait a day for it to be shipped to me. Once the major online retailers started charging taxes here in Virginia, and Best Buy also started price matching, It made more sense for me to get more things from Best Buy. Especially since I have a 45 day return period for my purchases at Best Buy.


----------



## aaronwt

trip1eX said:


> I like the ATV remote. And I was joking about the peanut remote in case that wasn't clear. I find the ATV remote perfectly serviceable although I know it has its haters. I like the minimalist nature. And never had any hate for it.


I thought the SHield TV remote was the worst remote I had ever used. UNtil I got my first ATV 4K. Then that easily became the worst remote I have ever used. The only time I will consider using it is when I do a voice search on the ATV 4K. Otherwise I use my Harmony remotes with my ATV 4K boxes.


----------



## foghorn2

Say this 6 times: Tivo Peanuts, Tivo Peanuts..

Best remote ever and will better, stronger, faster, .. and smaller!


----------



## Mikeguy

aaronwt said:


> ?? I thought the launch price was $50? $20 lower than the normal price of $70.
> I already have two ATV4K boxes, Three SHield TVs, Three 4K ROkus, three 4K Fire TV sticks, two UHD BD players, two XB1s, and two PS4s. Not to mention several Popcorn hour streamers and a Netgear streamer. I have at least two of most every major streamer. I will be getting the TiVo streamer to see how I like it. But it would need to be a homerun for it to be worth $70 to me. I'll bite at $50 though at the launch price.


I wonder if TiVo will be offering it from its website with the TiVo 30-day satisfaction guaranteed/free return policy. That might tempt me to check it out in person.


----------



## trip1eX

aaronwt said:


> I thought the SHield TV remote was the worst remote I had ever used. UNtil I got my first ATV 4K. Then that easily became the worst remote I have ever used. The only time I will consider using it is when I do a voice search on the ATV 4K. Otherwise I use my Harmony remotes with my ATV 4K boxes.


I never cared for Harmony remotes.

I like that the ATV remote automatically was programmed for the tv. The siri voice button works great. The touchpad is versatile - you can scroll with it, edge scroll with it or tap it. I like the minimal amount of buttons that can serve double duty for some by either double tapping them or holding them down.


----------



## Dan203

aaronwt said:


> ?? I thought the launch price was $50? $20 lower than the normal price of $70.
> I already have two ATV4K boxes, Three SHield TVs, Three 4K ROkus, three 4K Fire TV sticks, two UHD BD players, two XB1s, and two PS4s. Not to mention several Popcorn hour streamers and a Netgear streamer. I have at least two of most every major streamer. I will be getting the TiVo streamer to see how I like it. But it would need to be a homerun for it to be worth $70 to me. I'll bite at $50 though at the launch price.


I didn't realize the price was $70. I always assumed it was $50 based on the title of this thread and you were expecting another $20 off that.


----------



## lparsons21

trip1eX said:


> I never cared for Harmony remotes.
> 
> I like that the ATV remote automatically was programmed for the tv. The siri voice button works great. The touchpad is versatile - you can scroll with it, edge scroll with it or tap it. I like the minimal amount of buttons that can serve double duty for some by either double tapping them or holding them down.


Of course that assumes you can actually find the remote! 

I use the Remote app on my iPad, couldn't even tell you where the actual ATV remote is.


----------



## Triride44

The 2019 Nvidia Shield TV Pro is $199 and sold out everywhere. Lots of them on Ebay for $330.00+ I'm using the $149.00 Shield TV, got it in November. Both run Android TV. Have a different remote than the 2015 & 2017 Shield.

Based on my experience with Android TV, I'm looking forward to getting the TiVo stream 4k. I use a Roamio OTA and Sling Blue, so should be a good fit for me.


----------



## trip1eX

lparsons21 said:


> Of course that assumes you can actually find the remote!
> 
> I use the Remote app on my iPad, couldn't even tell you where the actual ATV remote is.


i rarely use the remote app. takes too long.


----------



## lparsons21

trip1eX said:


> i rarely use the remote app. takes too long.


Quicker by far than finding the actual remote! 

My iPad is generally in my lap and using the remote app is a swipe away and nearly instant in running.


----------



## trip1eX

lparsons21 said:


> Quicker by far than finding the actual remote!
> 
> My iPad is generally in my lap and using the remote app is a swipe away and nearly instant in running.


 I don't have a problem finding the remote. And if I am actually watching what is on the tv then my iPad or iPhone isn't in my lap.

And to use the remote app you need to look and swipe and then look and touch the remote icon and then wait a second or two. And then look again each time you perform a function on the remote app. And the combo of having to look at a 2nd screen to perform a function on the tv is awkward because your eyes have to go back and forth between the two screens.

With the actual remote, I do everything by feel.

I used hands-free voice way more than I ever use the remote app. Mostly with YTTV to skip commercials.


----------



## mdavej

Same here. Remote buttons by feel are far quicker and less distracting than an iPad app. If I'm in the middle of a movie in a dark room and want to turn up the volume, the last thing I want to do is pick up an iPad, light up the room and look down at it to press a button. No thanks.

If I need a qwerty keyboard, sure I'll use the app for that, but not for everyday simple stuff I can do instantly, unconsciously and without distraction.


----------



## philco782

foghorn2 said:


> Say this 6 times: Tivo Peanuts, Tivo Peanuts..
> 
> Best remote ever and will better, stronger, faster, .. and smaller!


This! I have a FireTV Stick and I still use my Edge to watch Amazon Prime Video, just because I love the remote.


----------



## mrizzo80

I love the peanut remote. It’s the best full size remote I’ve ever used. 

I also love the Firestick 4k remote. Simple and super light.


----------



## foghorn2

The AirTv Mini 4k has a nice remote, its bigger than the firestick remote and has more useful buttons.

It has a Guide, Recall, and Info buttons which are useful with the Sling service, but too many clicks to get to the DVR recordings.
This is where the Tivo Stream 4K will really shine, for once we will have the Tivo experience with its peanut remote with a well priced streaming service.

Whats really neat about the Sling Service is the top horizontal strip on the "MY TV" screen. If you use the service with the AirTv Ota Tuner, your main 4 local networks start on the strip, then blend into your favorite streaming channels and ends with the Ota subchannels, its like the good ol days when you turn your TV knob starting at channel 2 and change then sequentially all the way to 83! The only thing wrong with it is the main PBS channel is at the end with the subchannels, it needs to be after the main 4.


----------



## cwoody222

Not to turn this into a whole SlingTV thread but I'm playing with the 2-week free trial and one thing seems to be a showstopper to me.

How come only some shows let me record the whole series? I've tried to record 3 shows and only 1 would let me record the series. The other 2 would only let me record the single episode I clicked on in the Guide. They were both classic game shows on BUZZR - plenty of upcoming episodes daily available to record, but it wouldn't let me.

I'm not liking the Guide either. At least on Roku, there's no way to jump back to the top of the screen and no PIP.


----------



## jaselzer

*"TiVo Stream 4K is coming soon to save your thumbs.": *I continue to feel that it strange that Tivo does not update its customers about its products, including but not limited to the 4K Streamer.


----------



## Teavo

Sounds like it will be a perpetual "coming soon!" product that may even fade away without even being released.

They have a tough road ahead being so late to the game. Most folks are by now locked into streamers they like, mainly Roku (built into their new 4K TV's)


----------



## aaronwt

Teavo said:


> Sounds like it will be a perpetual "coming soon!" product that may even fade away without even being released.
> 
> They have a tough road ahead being so late to the game. Most folks are by now locked into streamers they like, mainly Roku (built into their new 4K TV's)


That's the thing. They weren't late to the game. Years ago they had streaming apps and were ahead of just about everyone else. But that languished for years with no improvement or additions. And then everyone else far surpassed them while TiVo stagnated. Just look how long it took them to add HDR to the Bolt.


----------



## Jim1348

Triride44 said:


> ...Based on my experience with Android TV, I'm looking forward to getting the TiVo stream 4k. I use a Roamio OTA and Sling Blue, so should be a good fit for me.


I may now be in the market for a new device. I called to cancel AT&T TV Now and at 6 PM tonight, it will be gone for me. I have been using their C71KW AT&T DirecTV NOW Android TV Streaming Box, but in a few hours, it won't have much value for me. I also have a TiVo Roamio OTA and two minis. I also subscribed to Sling TV Blue. Would the TiVo Stream 4K be a good choice for me? I have to admit, I haven't read all 40 pages of this thread. Can somebody sort of give me a quick synopsis of why this would be a good choice? Also, I gather that it is still sort of up in the air when it will actually be available, too.


----------



## Dan203

Teavo said:


> They have a tough road ahead being so late to the game. Most folks are by now locked into streamers they like, mainly Roku (built into their new 4K TV's)


I was thinking about this and while they are late to the streaming device game, they could be the first to put a truly user friendly UI on to AndroidTV. Until now the only "big name" AndroidTV device was the Nvidia Shield and it's expensive, hard to find and more gaming focused then streaming TV focused. This is where TiVo could find an "in". They could become the name brand for AndroidTV devices. Especially if they can figure out how to directly integrate other skinny bundle providers directly into the UI like they're doing with Sling. Imagine of the device could directly control YouTube TV or Hulu or Fubo and you got a choice when you set it up which one to use. That would be a game changer in the streaming device world as a whole.

So while you're right that they are late to the party as a whole they bring some unique features that *could* be a game changer and make it more popular then other options. No guarantees, but it's possible.


----------



## cwoody222

Teavo said:


> Sounds like it will be a perpetual "coming soon!" product that may even fade away without even being released.
> 
> They have a tough road ahead being so late to the game. Most folks are by now locked into streamers they like, mainly Roku (built into their new 4K TV's)


huh?

They said it'll be available in April. They're actively promoting it. It's April 8th.

Claiming it won't be released is a HUGE leap at this point.

Everyone needs to calm down. It'll be available when it's available.


----------



## trip1eX

This is one time where I would cut Tivo a break on the release date given the pandemic and all.


----------



## janitor53

If they would just update the DVR's to have this functionality they'd have me.


----------



## Triride44

Jim1348 said:


> I may now be in the market for a new device. I called to cancel AT&T TV Now and at 6 PM tonight, it will be gone for me. I have been using their C71KW AT&T DirecTV NOW Android TV Streaming Box, but in a few hours, it won't have much value for me. I also have a TiVo Roamio OTA and two minis. I also subscribed to Sling TV Blue. Would the TiVo Stream 4K be a good choice for me? I have to admit, I haven't read all 40 pages of this thread. Can somebody sort of give me a quick synopsis of why this would be a good choice? Also, I gather that it is still sort of up in the air when it will actually be available, too.


I'm using a TiVo Roamio OTA, and Sling Blue for my Cord Cutting package. I left Directv Satellite 1.5 yrs ago. The Roku app for Sling will work, but not as fast for changing channels as the Android TV apps on my Nvidia Shield or Mi-box. I plan to get the TiVo Stream 4K because it comes with Sling TV installed and built with Android TV as its os. Plus its $50.


----------



## Teavo

Wasn't it determined it's more like 75.00 and we only wished it was 59 or even less?


----------



## philco782

Dan203 said:


> I was thinking about this and while they are late to the streaming device game, they could be the first to put a truly user friendly UI on to AndroidTV. Until now the only "big name" AndroidTV device was the Nvidia Shield and it's expensive, hard to find and more gaming focused then streaming TV focused. This is where TiVo could find an "in".


Well the FireTV is all Android underneath, you just gotta side load a few things with ADB.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dan203

philco782 said:


> Well the FireTV is all Android underneath, you just gotta side load a few things with ADB.


True, but normal people don't know how to side load or even what "side loading" means.


----------



## Noelmel

Teavo said:


> Wasn't it determined it's more like 75.00 and we only wished it was 59 or even less?


No it's on the TiVo Blog

Here's a screenshot









Here's the link if anyone wants to read the whole thing

Here's Everything You Need to Know About TiVo Stream 4K - TiVo Blog

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cwoody222

jaselzer said:


> *"TiVo Stream 4K is coming soon to save your thumbs.": *I continue to feel that it strange that Tivo does not update its customers about its products, including but not limited to the 4K Streamer.


Here's an update they gave their customers just today.




__ https://www.facebook.com/


----------



## Teavo

isn't this video just a rehash of a rehash video saying the same stuff over again?


----------



## cwoody222

Teavo said:


> isn't this video just a rehash of a rehash video saying the same stuff over again?


It's a streamer that unifies app content. What more is there to say?


----------



## shwru980r

Dan203 said:


> True, but normal people don't know how to side load or even what "side loading" means.


The Fire TV has an app in their app store called "Downloader" where you can download apps outside of the Amazon app store and install them. You don't have to use a PC.


----------



## Teavo

Yeah I've used that several times to load movie apps.


----------



## Dan203

shwru980r said:


> The Fire TV has an app in their app store called "Downloader" where you can download apps outside of the Amazon app store and install them. You don't have to use a PC.


Unless someone knows that a FireTV is Android and that it can side load they'd never even know to look for such an app though. So it still falls into the same category.

The TiVo device will have a way to launch the Play store and install apps directly.


----------



## foghorn2

and the goggle play apps will update to the latest version, with the ftv, you have to reinstall/sideload all over again.
good example: Kodi went from 18.5 to 18.6 automatically.


----------



## Dan203

foghorn2 said:


> and the goggle play apps will update to the latest version, with the ftv, you have to reinstall/sideload all over again.
> good example: Kodi went from 18.5 to 18.6 automatically.


Yeah. Side loading isn't really a viable option for most people. I mean it's cool that it's an option at all, as it allows you to use apps that Amazon doesn't have in their store, but it breaks from the convenience of having one of these devices in the first place.


----------



## jaselzer

cwoody222 said:


> It's a streamer that unifies app content. What more is there to say?


Umm, when it is arriving. LoL


----------



## Noelmel

Just did an online chat to have the ads removed. Quick and easy as everyone stated. But at the end she asked if there was anything else she could help me with so I asked....

Hazel (3:32:10 PM):Is there anything else that I may assist you with today? 
Me (3:33:09 PM)o you happen to know if the Tivo Stream 4K is still launching this month (april)? I know alot of things have been postponed due to covid19? 
Hazel (3:34:59 PM): We still show April release date. We haven't receive any updates yet. You may visit our website from time to time regarding the newest device we have. 
Me (3:35:17 PM)k thank you im excited to buy one asap and try it. thanks again!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Teavo

LOL. I also had "Hazel" help me fix my TiVo.


----------



## philco782

foghorn2 said:


> and the goggle play apps will update to the latest version, with the ftv, you have to reinstall/sideload all over again.
> good example: Kodi went from 18.5 to 18.6 automatically.


Install Firestarter and it will update Kodi for you.


----------



## foghorn2

Noelmel said:


> Just did an online chat to have the ads removed. Quick and easy as everyone stated. But at the end she asked if there was anything else she could help me with so I asked....
> 
> Hazel (3:32:10 PM):Is there anything else that I may assist you with today?
> Me (3:33:09 PM)o you happen to know if the Tivo Stream 4K is still launching this month (april)? I know alot of things have been postponed due to covid19?
> Hazel (3:34:59 PM): We still show April release date. We haven't receive any updates yet. You may visit our website from time to time regarding the newest device we have.
> Me (3:35:17 PM)k thank you im excited to buy one asap and try it. thanks again!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hazel and Noelmel forever!


----------



## foghorn2

philco782 said:


> Install Firestarter and it will update Kodi for you.


this guy?:


----------



## JeffInDFW

Teavo said:


> LOL. I also had "Hazel" help me fix my TiVo.


Idea: Tivo chat help should all be named after classic tv show characters.

Mr. Ed
Uncle Jed
Nurse Dixie
Hazel
Gene Rayburn

How cool would that be?!??!!

Sorry, went off topic there......Yeah, I'm still here daily checking this thread for when this will be released. I've got 4 tvs waiting needing to replace very old outdated Rokus.


----------



## cwoody222

jaselzer said:


> Umm, when it is arriving. LoL


Soon.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

JeffInDFW said:


> Idea: Tivo chat help should all be named after classic tv show characters.
> 
> Mr. Ed
> Uncle Jed
> Nurse Dixie
> Hazel
> Gene Rayburn
> 
> How cool would that be?!??!!
> 
> Sorry, went off topic there......Yeah, I'm still here daily checking this thread for when this will be released. I've got 4 tvs waiting needing to replace very old outdated Rokus.


Wouldn't want to get Uncle Joe. He's been movin' kinda slow. At the Junction.


----------



## mdavej

Dan203 said:


> I was thinking about this and while they are late to the streaming device game, they could be the first to put a truly user friendly UI on to AndroidTV. Until now the only "big name" AndroidTV device was the Nvidia Shield and it's expensive, hard to find and more gaming focused then streaming TV focused.


Channel Master Stream+. Cheap Android TV box with built in OTA tuner and free DVR app with a guide that integrates with several streaming providers. Very user friendly UI. That one came out 3 years ago.


----------



## mattyro7878

Teavo said:


> LOL. I also had "Hazel" help me fix my TiVo.


I had "Mr B".


----------



## Dan203

mdavej said:


> Channel Master Stream+. Cheap Android TV box with built in OTA tuner and free DVR app with a guide that integrates with several streaming providers. Very user friendly UI. That one came out 3 years ago.


Channel Master is hardly a big name.

Now one could argue that neither is TiVo but most people have at least heard of TiVo. I bet the vast majority of people who aren't DVR geeks have never heard of Channel Master.

The only thing TiVo has left is name recognition. If they release a compelling device then they might be able to leverage that name recognition into a popular product. If it sucks then they'll crash and burn like we've all been expecting for years.


----------



## Triride44

I had to quit using my Channel Master DVR+ because the 14 day guide is gone and no longer supported, only the24 hrs OTA program guide. I plan to keep using my Roamio as long as its supported. Than I'll go to Flex and stream Next Gen. TV with a Hauppauge tuner and Nvidia Shield.


----------



## foghorn2

Dan203 said:


> Channel Master is hardly a big name.
> 
> Now one could argue that neither is TiVo but most people have at least heard of TiVo. I bet the vast majority of people who aren't DVR geeks have never heard of Channel Master.
> 
> The only thing TiVo has left is name recognition. If they release a compelling device then they might be able to leverage that name recognition into a popular product. If it sucks then they'll crash and burn like we've all been expecting for years.


Its all about marketing/advertising, they need to call it "the Ultimate CordCutting Device" or something like that, bring back the Tivo Mascot, re-invent it, advertise it can do Pluto, Kodi, VuDu, Prime, Play Store Gaming ect ect.., not just a Sling Streamer, if they do that, it may fail.


----------



## jaselzer

In my mind, the first criteria for not failing is to release the product. Or I suppose if you never release it, then the product can never fail. Seriously though, nothing from TiVo about their CEO One stating that it absolutely will be released in April. And I can understand the delay, if such a delay is going to happen, but I cannot understand not announcing an update on the status of the product. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## snerd

jaselzer said:


> Or I suppose if you never release it, then the product can never fail.


Well, "failure to launch" is also a type of fail.


----------



## jaselzer

snerd said:


> Well, "failure to launch" is also a type of fail.


so true


----------



## Mikeguy

jaselzer said:


> In my mind, the first criteria for not failing is to release the product. Or I suppose if you never release it, then the product can never fail. Seriously though, nothing from TiVo about their CEO One stating that it absolutely will be released in April. And I can understand the delay, if such a delay is going to happen, *but I cannot understand not announcing an update on the status of the product*.


Except that, sigh, in my experience, TiVo generally hasn't done that.


----------



## Edmund

mattyro7878 said:


> I had "Mr B".


 "If it wasn't for Hazel, George wouldn't change his socks"
"That's disgusting Baxter!!"


----------



## Dan203

TiVo rarely announces release dates, so the fact they even said April is unusual. As far as I can remember TiVo has never given exact release dates for anything.


----------



## jaselzer

That is true, but the CEO confirmed the date which gives him an obligation to publicly state if the date is no longer valid. That is just what one does.


----------



## cwoody222

jaselzer said:


> That is true, but the CEO confirmed the date which gives him an obligation to publicly state if the date is no longer valid. That is just what one does.


Why do you assume the date is no longer valid?


----------



## Dan203

jaselzer said:


> That is true, but the CEO confirmed the date which gives him an obligation to publicly state if the date is no longer valid. That is just what one does.


I assume he would if the date has changed. So as of now we can assume that it's still on track. There are still 2.5 weeks left in April.

Basically no news is good news.


----------



## Hamstring

Why isn’t there a preorder?


----------



## jaselzer

I was about to log on and explain that there would be a pre-order if the date was still valid.


----------



## cwoody222

So no pre-order = on-sale date is obviously delayed and CEO is an evil liar and the company is doomed to fail.

Got it.


----------



## Teavo

Seems it would be easier for TiVo to avoid pre-sale. That way if they ditch the product, they don't have to deal with refunding people.


----------



## jaselzer

cwoody222 said:


> So no pre-order = on-sale date is obviously delayed and CEO is an evil liar and the company is doomed to fail.
> 
> Got it.


How very astute of you.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

The last time I recall Tivo doing a pre-order was for the Premiere in 2010. It's not a thing they do.


----------



## cwoody222

Teavo said:


> Seems it would be easier for TiVo to avoid pre-sale. That way if they ditch the product, they don't have to deal with refunding people.


There is zero evidence the product will be "ditched".

Zero.

They are actively marketing it.


----------



## Mikeguy

cwoody222 said:


> There is zero evidence the product will be "ditched".
> 
> Zero.
> 
> They are actively marketing it.


They almost have to, at this point. Or we're talking a_ major_ company fail.


----------



## cwoody222

So people are upset they’re not marketing it enough and now we’re upset because they’re not marketing it for the right reasons?


----------



## mrizzo80

TiVo: “We promised our customers an April launch back in January.”

Mfg Partner in China: “Sorry, we’ve been shut down most of 2020 from the virus, but we are slowly coming back online. We can’t get this done in April.”

TiVo: “Are you sure?”

Partner: “What’s your forecasted demand like? How many units do you think you can sell at launch?”

TiVo: “Possibly dozens.”

Partner: “Ok, we can squeeze you in.”

(I’m poking some fun at TiVo’s (lack of) prominence in the home entertainment sector here, but I’ll likely buy one of these things. I’m anxious to try it out.)


----------



## PSU_Sudzi

mrizzo80 said:


> TiVo: "We promised our customers an April launch back in January."
> 
> Mfg Partner in China: "Sorry, we've been shut down most of 2020 from the virus, but we are slowly coming back online. We can't get this done in April."
> 
> TiVo: "Are you sure?"
> 
> Partner: "What's your forecasted demand like? How many units do you think you can sell at launch?"
> 
> TiVo: "Possibly dozens."
> 
> Partner: "Ok, we can squeeze you in."
> 
> (I'm poking some fun at TiVo's (lack of) prominence in the home entertainment sector here, but I'll likely buy one of these things. I'm anxious to try it out.)


This is hysterical. Seriously though, maybe they have hundreds or in the low thousands of sales?


----------



## Teavo

It will capture sales from people in forums like this for sure but I don't foresee millions of Roku users bailing on Roku. 

Certainly TiVo did some kind of customer surveys or research before jumping into the streaming world, to determine people not familiar with TiVo would actually buy one of these.


----------



## shwru980r

Tivo's streaming stick could suffer the same fate as the Tivo Maverik, although the Maverik was never officially announced, but with the existing economic uncertainty, I'd be surprised if this device is ever released, and I don't think it should be considered a failure not to release it under these circumstances.


----------



## Dan203

mrizzo80 said:


> TiVo: "We promised our customers an April launch back in January."
> 
> Mfg Partner in China: "Sorry, we've been shut down most of 2020 from the virus, but we are slowly coming back online. We can't get this done in April."
> 
> TiVo: "Are you sure?"
> 
> Partner: "What's your forecasted demand like? How many units do you think you can sell at launch?"
> 
> TiVo: "Possibly dozens."
> 
> Partner: "Ok, we can squeeze you in."
> 
> (I'm poking some fun at TiVo's (lack of) prominence in the home entertainment sector here, but I'll likely buy one of these things. I'm anxious to try it out.)


I don't know where this device is being made but IIRC most TiVo devices are actually made in Mexico, not China. Although I'm sure at least some of the parts they use come from China, so that could still potentially delay the production.

Edit: I know your post was a joke. I just quoted it because it's the most recent to mention China.


----------



## Dan203

shwru980r said:


> Tivo's streaming stick could suffer the same fate as the Tivo Maverik, although the Maverik was never officially announced, but with the existing economic uncertainty, I'd be surprised if this device is ever released, and I don't think it should be considered a failure not to release it under these circumstances.


The Maverick died in beta because it didn't work. They were attempting to stitch together shows in the cloud using small pieces from every customer that recorded it, so that no one customer had a significant bandwidth hit. But they had issues with the stitched together final recording. Errors at the stitch points, quality issues with the different segments, etc... It was their attempt to create something akin to what Aereo did without the centralized antenna array. Unfortunately it failed because the technical hurdles were too hard for them to overcome.

This device is basically a consumer version of a device they've been selling to MSOs since December 2018.


----------



## Mikeguy

Simply for accuracy: Mavrik (according to the packaging).


----------



## SullyND

The sling product this is practically identical to is made in China by SEI Robotics.

https://www.seirobotics.net/


----------



## Dan203

SullyND said:


> The sling product this is practically identical to is made in China by SEI Robotics.
> 
> https://www.seirobotics.net/


It's possible the hardware for these was done months ago and they've just been working on the software and getting it qualified by Google. I was in a TiVo beta once and received a unit to test that was already in full retail packaging even though it wasn't released for 3+ months.


----------



## Mikeguy

I was in a TiVo beta once and received a unit to test that was already in full retail packaging, and the product was abandoned.


----------



## PSU_Sudzi

Mikeguy said:


> I was in a TiVo beta once and received a unit to test that was already in full retail packaging, and the product was abandoned.


What product was that?


----------



## Dan203

Maverik I presume. It's the only product I know of that they have abandoned.


----------



## morac

Dan203 said:


> Maverik I presume. It's the only product I know of that they have abandoned.


What about Tivo TV, or does that not count because it was actually released and then quickly killed?


----------



## mschnebly

What if people buy this because the TiVo name = DVR and this one is just a streamer?


----------



## Dan203

mschnebly said:


> What if people buy this because the TiVo name = DVR and this one is just a streamer?


I think one of the big selling points of this, at least in their marketing, is the integration with Sling and (hopefully) a better UI for the Sling DVR.


----------



## Dan203

morac said:


> What about Tivo TV, or does that not count because it was actually released and then quickly killed?


Not sure what you're even talking about. What's a TiVo TV?


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

morac said:


> What about Tivo TV, or does that not count because it was actually released and then quickly killed?





Dan203 said:


> Not sure what you're even talking about. What's a TiVo TV?


TiVo PC, a.k.a. Nero Liquid TV?


----------



## Dan203

Pokemon_Dad said:


> TiVo PC, a.k.a. Nero Liquid TV?


That was around for years.

I'm thinking maybe he was talking about a TV with a built in TiVo. I think there was one many years ago, like in the S1 days, but it flopped. But it was made by a 3rd party, not TiVo


----------



## pfiagra

Dan203 said:


> Maverik I presume. It's the only product I know of that they have abandoned.


TiVo Mega DVR offers up vast 24TB storage at equally huge $5,000 price


----------



## davezatz

Dan203 said:


> Not sure what you're even talking about. What's a TiVo TV?


There was indeed a TiVo television. It wasn't very good and was also DVR-less. Long history of failing to execute and/or giving up. I think they've always tried to juggle too much, respective to engineer staffing, and have had a lot of internal turmoil.

https://zatznotfunny.com/2011-09/hands-on-the-insignia-tivo-tv/


----------



## Dan203

pfiagra said:


> TiVo Mega DVR offers up vast 24TB storage at equally huge $5,000 price


Forgot about that one. But I don't think it even got to the beta stage.


----------



## wmcbrine

Dan203 said:


> Forgot about that one. But I don't think it even got to the beta stage.


I always assumed it had actually been made, but just wasn't advertised to the general public. The high-end gear space is full of whole brands I never even hear of outside of AVSForum.


----------



## Dan203

wmcbrine said:


> I always assumed it had actually been made, but just wasn't advertised to the general public. The high-end gear space is full of whole brands I never even hear of outside of AVSForum.


Maybe. That photo looks like something that's intended to fit in a server rack, so not really a consumer level device.


----------



## tenthplanet

JeffInDFW said:


> Idea: Tivo chat help should all be named after classic tv show characters.
> 
> Mr. Ed
> Uncle Jed
> Nurse Dixie
> Hazel
> Gene Rayburn
> 
> How cool would that be?!??!!
> 
> Sorry, went off topic there......Yeah, I'm still here daily checking this thread for when this will be released. I've got 4 tvs waiting needing to replace very old outdated Rokus.


Classic Tv characters OK..
Mulder
Scully
Skinner
"The Smoking Man"
I really don't want to talk to "The Smoking Man"


----------



## Mikeguy

pfiagra said:


> TiVo Mega DVR offers up vast 24TB storage at equally huge $5,000 price


Kind of humorous that you now can get more than this storage via 2 modified TiVo Bolt boxes (a total of 26 TB of storage) purchased from WeaKnees nowadays, at less than half the price (2 x $1099).


----------



## Noelmel

Mikeguy said:


> Kind of humorous that you now can get more than this storage via 2 modified TiVo Bolt boxes (a total of 26 TB of storage) purchased from WeaKnees nowadays, at less than half the price (2 x $1099).


Here's the 6th sneak peek video.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Seth141

I would think if they're still posting these videos once a week on the same day that it must still be coming out this month. Seems like the videos have been planned out. 


Noelmel said:


> Here's the 6th sneak peek video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jaselzer

Very nice. I am definitely a buyer. Oh, wait.........so WHEN is it coming out? And I am serious, I find it to be a compelling streamer.


----------



## babsonnexus

Having the single unified place for all my content from all apps (and recording services) is the only thing I have ever wanted. I'm getting this to find out if the dream is (close to) true, and am especially looking forward to seeing the future integration into existing TiVO's. The video shows the recording percentage filled, so I'm assuming that is just Sling's DVR for now. But if it could do that with TiVO's and other services (Hulu Live, YTTV, etc...), this will become the stand-out interface that can separate from all the others.

However, it is fair to note that TiVO can't even get its metadata to agree among its own different front ends. Search for something on the App vs. the Web vs. the TiVO itself vs. other places that TiVO provides metadata and you'll get different answers for each. If it is the same garbage metadata with a 40% failure rate and delays longer than one day to be updated, than it will be pointless.


----------



## Dan203

They've only got two weeks left. 6 seems like a nice round number for preview videos, so maybe next week?


----------



## janitor53

babsonnexus said:


> Having the single unified place for all my content from all apps (and recording services) is the only thing I have ever wanted. I'm getting this to find out if the dream is (close to) true, and am especially looking forward to seeing the future integration into existing TiVO's. The video shows the recording percentage filled, so I'm assuming that is just Sling's DVR for now. But if it could do that with TiVO's and other services (Hulu Live, YTTV, etc...), this will become the stand-out interface that can separate from all the others.
> 
> However, it is fair to note that TiVO can't even get its metadata to agree among its own different front ends. Search for something on the App vs. the Web vs. the TiVO itself vs. other places that TiVO provides metadata and you'll get different answers for each. If it is the same garbage metadata with a 40% failure rate and delays longer than one day to be updated, than it will be pointless.


I want the firmware for the streamer to be uploaded onto the DVR's, that's it....it's all I've ever wanted. I want my OTA and then all the streaming services on one device. If something like that comes from tivo then they'll get my money, if another company beats them to it then they'll get my money. It's that simple for me.


----------



## davezatz

babsonnexus said:


> Having the single unified place for all my content from all apps (and recording services) is the only thing I have ever wanted. I'm getting this to find out if the dream is (close to) true, and am especially looking forward to seeing *the future integration into existing TiVO's*.





janitor53 said:


> I want the firmware for the streamer to be uploaded *onto the DVR*'s, that's it.


I dunno. Ted was my canary in the coal mine. With him having left TiVo, I don't imagine retail TiVo DVRs will see much more beyond cableco software scraps (patches) easily ported back down. No future hardware and don't count on our pre-roll preferences sticking. Then again, if the merger goes through in the next couple months, they'll have yet another CEO and things could change again. But I'm guessing the retail DVR experience is going on autopilot.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

davezatz said:


> Ted was my canary in the coal mine. With him having left TiVo,


Dang. He may have been our last remaining management-level advocate there. Or at least, he heard us.


----------



## Dan203

davezatz said:


> I dunno. Ted was my canary in the coal mine. With him having left TiVo, I don't imagine retail TiVo DVRs will see much more beyond cableco software scraps (patches) easily ported back down. No future hardware and don't count on our pre-roll preferences sticking. Then again, if the merger goes through in the next couple months, they'll have yet another CEO and things could change again. But I'm guessing the retail DVR experience is going on autopilot.


When did he leave? I spoke to him via email a few months ago.


----------



## JoeKustra

Dan203 said:


> When did he leave? I spoke to him via email a few months ago.


He hasn't updated his profile and I saw a tweet recently. Last visit here was 4/7. Our loss.


----------



## Dan203

JoeKustra said:


> He hasn't updated his profile and I saw a tweet recently. Last visit here was 4/11. Our loss.


That's too bad.


----------



## janitor53

Looks like he left in February.


----------



## WVZR1

davezatz said:


> I dunno. Ted was my canary in the coal mine. With him having left TiVo, I don't imagine retail TiVo DVRs will see much more beyond cableco software scraps (patches) easily ported back down. No future hardware and don't count on our pre-roll preferences sticking. Then again, if the merger goes through in the next couple months, they'll have yet another CEO and things could change again. But I'm guessing the retail DVR experience is going on autopilot.


That was 'maybe/very likely' the most foolish 'claim/comment' you've likely ever made here! He might very well have had an NDA that you've hinted he maybe disregarded in you're conversations.


----------



## davezatz

WVZR1 said:


> That was 'maybe/very likely' the most foolish 'claim/comment' you've likely ever made here! He might very well have had an NDA that you've hinted he maybe disregarded in you're conversations.


I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say. TiVo was contemplating killing retail, as far as I could tell (aka sources), then they chose to bring Ted on. Knowing his history at TiVo (S2), Sling, and Microsoft, I saw the move as a good sign, positive indicator. And I saw his engagement here in the community over the last couple years as a great sign. Him moving on, and I don't know anything about that other than his Linkedin page, concerns me. Based on the new product direction (and personnel involved: unfamiliar people briefing folks at CES and shown in YouTube videos), there's clearly been a shift of some sort. So I'm guessing retail DVR will languish (again).


----------



## mrsean

Wow. First Margret leaves us and now Ted too. It feels like we're all just sitting in deck chairs on the Titanic right now.


----------



## WVZR1

davezatz said:


> I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say. TiVo was contemplating killing retail, as far as I could tell (aka sources), then they chose to bring Ted on. Knowing his history at TiVo (S2), Sling, and Microsoft, I saw the move as a good sign, positive indicator. And I saw his engagement here in the community over the last couple years as a great sign. Him moving on, and I don't know anything about that other than his Linkedin page, concerns me. Based on the new product direction (and personnel involved: unfamiliar people briefing folks at CES and shown in YouTube videos), there's clearly been a shift of some sort. So I'm guessing retail DVR will languish (again).


You're the guy that seemed to boast: Canary in the 'COAL MINE' ! Nuff said!


----------



## Dan203

janitor53 said:


> Looks like he left in February.


I talked to him on the 19th of Feb about a project. No mention that he was leaving. Must have been right after that. Explains why he never responded to my last email. I just assumed he was busy.


----------



## Phil T

Tivo Ted is toast??


----------



## Phil T

Very sad what is happening since I have purchased two Bolts and minis and subscriptions since 2017. I just chatted again today to have my pre-roll ads removed. 

I was told they would be removed on April 6th but it never happened. 

Guide data is a mess.

Will see what happens after today...

No way I will buy a streaming stick from them if they won't support my existing equipment.

Reminds me of what happened to DirecTV after AT&T bought them.


----------



## Mikeguy

davezatz said:


> I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say. TiVo was contemplating killing retail, as far as I could tell (aka sources), then they chose to bring Ted on. Knowing his history at TiVo (S2), Sling, and Microsoft, I saw the move as a good sign, positive indicator. And I saw his engagement here in the community over the last couple years as a great sign. Him moving on, and I don't know anything about that other than his Linkedin page, concerns me. Based on the new product direction (and personnel involved: unfamiliar people briefing folks at CES and shown in YouTube videos), there's clearly been a shift of some sort. So I'm guessing retail DVR will languish (again).


Dave, do you know that Ted has left, or are you going by his Linkdin resume? I'm not on Linkedin and so can't see your linked page, but came across his resume there a week or 2 ago, and noted that he listed his TiVo employment with both a beginning and seemingly an end date--I was going to say something or ask about it here, but then thought that the date listing may have been a stylistic matter and not indicating an end of employment.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

Mikeguy said:


> Dave, do you know that Ted has left, or are you going by his Linkdin resume? I'm not on Linkedin and so can't see your linked page, but came across his resume there a week or 2 ago, and noted that he listed his TiVo employment with both a beginning and an end date--I was going to say something or ask about it here, but then thought that the date listing may have been a stylistic matter and not indicating an end of employment.


Sorry to say but that's how it works. If he didn't enter an end date, that would say "- Present".


----------



## Mikeguy

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Sorry to say but that's how it works. If he didn't enter an end date, that would say "- Present".


That was my original thought, but then something else there made me question that--the present tense being used for the TiVo position description, making it sound like it was on-going, as vs. the past tense that is used for earlier positions. (But then, there also was language making it sound like Ted was available for consulting.) I just didn't want to mis-speak or start rumors with someone else's life.

edit: Not to be stalkery and I'll cease, but here's the link to Ted's Linkedin resume page that I had come across. https://www.linkedin.com/in/tedmalone As you'll see, there's an April article there--it wasn't there when I was at the webpage before--which makes Ted's TiVo life seem historical to me. And if you go to the article, you'll see a comment from a colleague offering to help Ted identify his next big thing. Dang. Sigh. Dang.


----------



## Noelmel

Dan203 said:


> They've only got two weeks left. 6 seems like a nice round number for preview videos, so maybe next week?


Well now they just dropped video 7. Two in one day! The description under it now says "coming VERY soon" and they mention Disney +






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dan203

Noelmel said:


> Well now they just dropped video 7. Two in one day! The description under it now says "coming VERY soon" and they mention Disney +
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That guy kind of reminds me of Bob Poniatowski. (aka TiVoPony) I only met him a few times, but he kind of looks and sounds like him.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

Dan203 said:


> That guy kind of reminds me of Bob Poniatowski. (aka TiVoPony) I only met him a few times, but he kind of looks and sounds like him.


He does look like him, a little bit. But according to LinkedIn, Bob left TiVo in 2011.


----------



## Dan203

Pokemon_Dad said:


> He does look like him, a little bit. But according to LinkedIn, Bob left TiVo in 2011.


I know he left a long time ago. Good guy though


----------



## JeffInDFW

Well....two videos in one day does make me think it will be on sale soon. If the release was delayed, they would be stretching the posting of the videos as much as possible. Come on baby! Daddy needs to replace those 2nd generation Rokus!!! And it would be nice if they would release them while the world is still on lockdown and watching insane amounts of tv.


----------



## Teavo

I wish it would integrate Philo.


----------



## dlfl

davezatz said:


> ...... I think they've always tried to juggle too much, respective to engineer staffing, and have had a lot of internal turmoil. .....


I wonder how common that is. It pretty closely describes the situation in a company I worked for from 2001 to 2009. Higher level management and marketing promoted development of (software based) products that overloaded the engineering staff. The project concepts were sound and could have been realized with appropriate resources and good management. But the resources were skimpy and the lower management tiers weren't able to organize the work efforts efficiently, which would have been essential for us to even have a chance of meeting the ambitious goals.


----------



## JeffInDFW

Since YouTube TV has unlimited DVR, it is my preferred provider over Sling. I'm hoping they have good YouTube TV integration.


----------



## jaselzer

I am feeling optimistic. Video #7 seems to imply it will be released imminently. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## babsonnexus

In the article This app could change how you use your Roku dated April 16, 2020 at 3:00am PDT, the author Jared Newman says:



> TiVo is also preparing to launch its own Android TV-based streaming dongle called the TiVo Stream 4K. Its main hook is a TV guide that pulls in video from lots of different streaming sources. The company told me earlier this month that it's still on track to launch the device soon.


Incidentally, this article is about Reelgood, an app that also is attempting the central Watchlist. But I'd rather the TiVO approach, should it work as advertised.


----------



## jaselzer

"Still on track to launch the device SOON"(caps are my emphasis):I would have preferred if Tivo responded with an April release. "Soon" is as vague as one can get.


----------



## snerd

jaselzer said:


> "Soon" is as vague as one can get.


Nah, "eventually" is more vague.


----------



## jaselzer

Hmm, "eventually" is more specific than "soon". Eventually clear states that the event will not take place anytime soon nor should one anticipate a time frame whatsoever. Soon implies a period of time in the near future, while "near" is defineless. So eventually can be taken to mean, do not "hold your breath", while soon means "hold your breath" but you might asphyxiate while presuming how soon is soon.


----------



## ellinj

I hope there are not pre-roll ads


----------



## osu1991

TiVo Stream 4K: When Will the Big CES Buzz Product Finally Arrive?

TiVo Stream 4K: When Will the Big CES Buzz Product Finally Arrive? | Next TV

_TiVo said in January that it would enter the crowded OTT device market in April. But more than halfway through the month-and well into a huge pandemic-fueled window of streaming opportunity-the product is still listed as 'coming soon'_


----------



## chiguy50

snerd said:


> Nah, "*eventually*" is more vague.


And the cognate is even more vague in French (_eventuellement_) or German (_eventual_), where the connotation is "it could possibly happen" or "if the situation should arise."

Sounds to me like a TiVo-specific nuance.


----------



## snerd

jaselzer said:


> Hmm, "eventually" is more specific than "soon". Eventually clear states that the event will not take place anytime soon nor should one anticipate a time frame whatsoever. Soon implies a period of time in the near future, while "near" is defineless. So eventually can be taken to mean, do not "hold your breath", while soon means "hold your breath" but you might asphyxiate while presuming how soon is soon.


I disagree. The word "soon" is meant to significantly narrow down the time frame, while "eventually" is meant to leave the time frame wide open, which is clearly more vague.

Even more vague: "not today". Technically, TiVo said "April" which is fairly specific and still could happen. So, claiming that TiVo is being vague is perhaps unfair.

It's all marketing terminology anyway, so anyone with an ounce of sense would take it with many grains of salt.


----------



## Noelmel

And the latest video says “very soon” so that’s even better lol plus it’s still April. I think it’ll be next week 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mattyro7878

"Pandemic fueled streaming window" is what hurts the most. Huge opportunity to order the unit..get it in a week and make a lot of streaming families happy. Leading them to recommend it and buy a few more of their own. It cant be ready or they definitely would have released it.


----------



## Dan203

mattyro7878 said:


> "Pandemic fueled streaming window" is what hurts the most. Huge opportunity to order the unit..get it in a week and make a lot of streaming families happy. Leading them to recommend it and buy a few more of their own. It cant be ready or they definitely would have released it.


If they weren't ready they weren't ready. Maybe the release of the 7th video early is an indication they were able to push it up a week.


----------



## Teavo

I just don't understand the point of sending out these short videos. One all encompassing one would have been much more effective.
Literally every one of these 7 mini videos say the SAME things. They just mix up wording a bit to make it sound fresher. 

Just produce a 5-10 minute how to video and show ALL features one by one and call it good.


----------



## shwru980r

Will this new device have a browser like the fire tv that you can control with the remote?


----------



## Dan203

Teavo said:


> I just don't understand the point of sending out these short videos. One all encompassing one would have been much more effective.
> Literally every one of these 7 mini videos say the SAME things. They just mix up wording a bit to make it sound fresher.
> 
> Just produce a 5-10 minute how to video and show ALL features one by one and call it good.


Probably just a way to keep people interested for 7 weeks. Plus you're over estimating the attention span of the average person. A "good" watch time on YouTube is 5 minutes. And for something that's essentially a commercial you'd be lucky to get anywhere close to that.


----------



## foghorn2

shwru980r said:


> Will this new device have a browser like the fire tv that you can control with the remote?


Not OOB.


----------



## Teavo

Dan203 said:


> Probably just a way to keep people interested for 7 weeks. Plus you're over estimating the attention span of the average person. A "good" watch time on YouTube is 5 minutes. And for something that's essentially a commercial you'd be lucky to get anywhere close to that.


One minor flaw in that theory is that TiVo channel has less than 7,000 subscribers so other than folks like us and those on AVS or other gadget forums, not many real world potential customers are seeing these silly Quibi style videos. They were better off with one full scale onslaught video that needed to be more in the mainstream vs. tucked away buried in YT.


----------



## Dan203

Teavo said:


> One minor flaw in that theory is that TiVo channel has less than 7,000 subscribers so other than folks like us and those on AVS or other gadget forums, not many real world potential customers are seeing these silly Quibi style videos. They were better off with one full scale onslaught video that needed to be more in the mainstream vs. tucked away buried in YT.


Well I didn't say TiVo was smart enough to know their audience. They seemed to have forgotten about us long ago.


----------



## Teavo

Interesting app that mimics what TiVo is trying to do.

https://reelgood.com/


----------



## Mikeguy

Teavo said:


> I just don't understand the point of sending out these short videos. One all encompassing one would have been much more effective.
> Literally every one of these 7 mini videos say the SAME things. They just mix up wording a bit to make it sound fresher.
> 
> Just produce a 5-10 minute how to video and show ALL features one by one and call it good.


Trying to build interest and momentum, in the marketing biz.


----------



## mrizzo80

ReelGood looks promising. Never heard of them until today, but looks like it’s been around since 2016. 

Can’t find anything about a Firestick app being available or even on the roadmap though.


----------



## Noelmel

Teavo said:


> Interesting app that mimics what TiVo is trying to do.
> 
> https://reelgood.com/


That does look great but only for phones or small devices it seems no Roku or Apple TV etc. So hopefully TiVo can get this released ASAP.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## shwru980r

Noelmel said:


> That does look great but only for phones or small devices it seems no Roku or Apple TV etc. So hopefully TiVo can get this released ASAP.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Might be able to side load it and navigate with a blue tooth mouse.


----------



## realityboy

Noelmel said:


> That does look great but only for phones or small devices it seems no Roku or Apple TV etc. So hopefully TiVo can get this released ASAP.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The Reelgood app is supposed to launch shows on Roku using your phone. I haven't tried it yet though.


----------



## Noelmel

realityboy said:


> The Reelgood app is supposed to launch shows on Roku using your phone. I haven't tried it yet though.


Oh ok that makes more sense. I'm sure it would be fine if I had an iPad but I'm def not watching shows on my small older iPhone when I have a huge new Roku tv lol

Either way if TiVo steam 4K combines all that plus more I can't wait!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## trip1eX

SlingTv is free from 5pm to 12am. Blue package. Very timely for Tivo if they release the Stream soon.


----------



## mdavej

trip1eX said:


> SlingTv is free from 5pm to 12am. Blue package. Very timely for Tivo if they release the Stream soon.


Cool. I just signed up and fired up the app and can watch lots of stuff right now. I wonder what the difference between the free preview 24x7 and the happy hours one is.

EDIT: Found the list. There are two free previews going on right now:

Happy Hour (5p-12a)
Sneak Peek (all hours)

Here's the list of Sneak Peek channels:
Channels currently on a free preview on SLING | SLING TV Help

Here's the list of Blue channels in Happy Hour:
Stream Live TV with Sling Blue | Sling TV


----------



## trip1eX

mdavej said:


> Cool. I just signed up and fired up the app and can watch lots of stuff right now. I wonder what the difference between the free preview 24x7 and the happy hours one is.
> 
> EDIT: Found the list. There are two free previews going on right now:
> 
> Happy Hour (5p-12a)
> Sneak Peek (all hours)
> 
> Here's the list of Sneak Peek channels:
> Channels currently on a free preview on SLING | SLING TV Help
> 
> Here's the list of Blue channels in Happy Hour:
> Stream Live TV with Sling Blue | Sling TV


Yeah Happy Hour is Sling Blue.

But they also have assorted mostly "B" content for free it seems anytime of the day which is akin to Pluto TV or Tivo+ maybe.

Sneak Preview (SP) seems like yet another thing - some of the SP channels like CNBC seem like one gets for free only if you have Sling Blue or Orange already. CNBC isn't in those packages and is only available as part of the $5 add-on package. I think Hallmark might be in the same boat as well - normally only part of a $5-$10 add-on package.

But I guess they SP is also what looked like a PLutotv type service to me. SP has free for everyone and then free for existing subscriber content.


----------



## Seth141

Teavo said:


> Interesting app that mimics what TiVo is trying to do.
> 
> https://reelgood.com/


I'm new to this forum but I've been a big fan of TiVo ever since first getting a Premiere box back in 2012. I now have a bolt and mini vox set up. I've been checking this thread in particular to see if there has been an announcement about the TiVo stream 4k as I'm very excited to try it out.

Today I set up the reelgood app with the TestFlight app to get the roku remote capabilities which are still in beta. I have to say it's awesome and it makes me extremely disappointed in TiVo for dragging this out so long without releasing their app. I understand that the pandemic may have something to do with the delay, but they are still releasing multiple teaser videos without any sort of indication about what is truly going on. They are indeed being left in the dust now with this new app which is essentially doing something similar. They are no longer going to be the only ones with this type of capability.


----------



## cwoody222

Seth141 said:


> I'm new to this forum but I've been a big fan of TiVo ever since first getting a Premiere box back in 2012. I now have a bolt and mini vox set up. I've been checking this thread in particular to see if there has been an announcement about the TiVo stream 4k as I'm very excited to try it out.
> 
> Today I set up the reelgood app with the TestFlight app to get the roku remote capabilities which are still in beta. I have to say it's awesome and it makes me extremely disappointed in TiVo for dragging this out so long without releasing their app. I understand that the pandemic may have something to do with the delay, but they are still releasing multiple teaser videos without any sort of indication about what is truly going on. They are indeed being left in the dust now with this new app which is essentially doing something similar. They are no longer going to be the only ones with this type of capability.


What is truly going on? Delay? Dragging out so long?

They announced it would be available in April, in January.

It's April.

They are actively marketing it as "coming soon".

What is their dastardly plot here?


----------



## Seth141

cwoody222 said:


> What is truly going on? Delay? Dragging out so long?
> 
> They announced it would be available in April, in January.
> 
> It's April.
> 
> They are actively marketing it as "coming soon".
> 
> What is their dastardly plot here?


Never said there was a dastardly plot. I just find the current TiVo company to have great products but also be extremely unorganized with how they release them. Not having a preorder option will also hurt them because of things like new apps coming out with similar technology since the initial announcement. TiVo fans like me will buy it no matter what, but they should be figuring out ways to branch out from just the TiVo fans on this forum.


----------



## cwoody222

What’s unorganized?

They presented a new upcoming product at a tech event, announcing a release date approximately 4 months away. They got great press from it.

They begin to market the product on social media and other media. No doubt when the product is released it’ll be reviewed in all the mainstream sources, appearing to many more than current TiVo faithful.

The release date nears and they continue to market it, saying the product is “coming soon”.

They don’t chose to do a pre-sale. So what?

Assuming they have plenty to meet demand at launch, what does a pre-sale gain anyone? Are you just that eager to fork over $50?


----------



## Teavo

In a way it helps gauge demand I would think by doing a presale.

If they get 100 order or less, then that would be their alert that this may not be the new "it" streamer.


----------



## Mikeguy

cwoody222 said:


> What is truly going on? Delay? Dragging out so long?
> 
> They announced it would be available in April, in January.
> 
> It's April.
> 
> They are actively marketing it as "coming soon".
> 
> What is their dastardly plot here?


April has 30 days in it.* 

* Totally ignoring the fact that TiVo seems to have an infamous characteristic of being later/slower with things.


----------



## shwru980r

Maybe it will be possible to side load the Tivo android app on this new device.


----------



## cwoody222

Mikeguy said:


> April has 30 days in it.*
> 
> * Totally ignoring the fact that TiVo seems to have an infamous characteristic of being later/slower with things.


Have they?

What was a previous product of theirs that they announced a release date for and missed it.

(not including the vaporware streaming apps)


----------



## Mikeguy

Most recently, the Firestick, Roku, and Apple TiVo apps, that now aren't issuing and who knows if they ever will. (Sorry, I don't think that it is fair to exclude mention of those here.) Also, the TiVo Mini Wireless Adapter, coming months later, as best I recall.

To be fair, I don't believe that TiVo ever definitively gave launch dates as with the Stream streamer. But statements were made causing people to believe that the products were coming within a certain time, and then they didn't.

Separately, TiVo seemingly often has stated that a software fix is being looked into or is coming, and then nothing comes for a considerable time (if ever), longer than people would have expected. Most recently, fixes for the Edge platform software.

All of this is such that some or many people (at least here), I think, often take TiVo's statements with a grain of salt (or more), and see them as hopefuls rather than will-be's.*

* And I'm not aiming to be malicious here. It's just a pattern I've seen with TiVo, just like how one might expect certain behaviors from one's lovable but looney uncle.


----------



## Teavo

Has TiVo ever fixed the reboot issue for the OTA signal test that's been going on for months?


----------



## HerronScott

Teavo said:


> Has TiVo ever fixed the reboot issue for the OTA signal test that's been going on for months?


Yes, with the update released last month.

21.9.7.v3

Scott


----------



## cwoody222

Mikeguy said:


> Most recently, the Firestick, Roku, and Apple TiVo apps, that now aren't issuing and who knows if they ever will. (Sorry, I don't think that it is fair to exclude mention of those here.) Also, the TiVo Mini Wireless Adapter, coming months later, as best I recall.
> 
> To be fair, I don't believe that TiVo ever definitively gave launch dates as with the Stream streamer. But statements were made causing people to believe that the products were coming within a certain time, and then they didn't.
> 
> Separately, TiVo seemingly often has stated that a software fix is being looked into or is coming, and then nothing comes for a considerable time (if ever), longer than people would have expected. Most recently, fixes for the Edge platform software.
> 
> All of this is such that some or many people (at least here), I think, often take TiVo's statements with a grain of salt (or more), and see them as hopefuls rather than will-be's.*
> 
> * And I'm not aiming to be malicious here. It's just a pattern I've seen with TiVo, just like how one might expect certain behaviors from one's lovable but looney uncle.


So at CES in January 2019 they talked about the Mini Wireless adapter and said it'd be out in the 2nd quarter. It came out in Nov. They were very late.

At the same CES they announced the free steaming apps. A new CEO killed those.

And over the years software updates may take longer than expected (hardly unusual in any industry).

This makes them infamous of being late/slow?


----------



## Mikeguy

cwoody222 said:


> So at CES in January 2019 they talked about the Mini Wireless adapter and said it'd be out in the 2nd quarter. It came out in Nov. They were very late.
> 
> At the same CES they announced the free steaming apps. A new CEO killed those.
> 
> And over the years software updates may take longer than expected (hardly unusual in any industry).
> 
> This makes them infamous of being late/slow?


Well, it sure doesn't make them infamous for being on time/fast.  It's just the way that TiVo is, it seems to me, from all appearances. (And it's not just software updates--it's many software fixes, time and again. I still don't know if the Edge platform fully works as it's supposed to.)


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

We've talked about their glacial speed in various ways for years.

Android streaming support "coming soon" for 2 years. They issued some joint press release regarding DLNA support that went nowhere. Comcast customers are still waiting on their cablecard-free security solution. And their VOD solution. During a research panel some of us were told profiles were "on the timeline". I reckon nobody bothered to wait for the Twitch app that was supposedly in the works.

Some just off the top of my head, plenty more that were forgotten. These things didn't have specific dates, but they don't need them. At some point they can safely written off as never happening.


----------



## Noelmel

Does anyone know is there a pattern like does TiVo have a day they usually release products on? Like past releases of Edge, Bolt, minis etc? Like how Apple almost always does keynotes on Tuesday’s and launches on Fridays? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

After 7 previews they've still shown very little.

You'd think they'd do an unboxing and run us through the out of box experience and give us some actual substance and feel for how it works instead of repeating their "we merge content" schtick half a dozen times. Plug the 5000 apps. 

Seems like in late February they were all thrown together in about an hour (same clothes every video).

But I guess there's now confirmation of Disney integration.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Noelmel said:


> Does anyone know is there a pattern like does TiVo have a day they usually release products on? Like past releases of Edge, Bolt, minis etc?


Tuesdays. Edge, Bolt Vox, Mini Vox, original Bolt, Roamio, and Premiere were all Tuesday launches.


----------



## Noelmel

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Tuesdays. Edge, Bolt Vox, Mini Vox, original Bolt, Roamio, and Premiere were all Tuesday launches.


Thanks! That's exactly what I was wondering. So we have 2 Tuesday's left in April.... fingers crossed for this week. I really wanna play with this before I have to go back to work in May lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dan203

cwoody222 said:


> So at CES in January 2019 they talked about the Mini Wireless adapter and said it'd be out in the 2nd quarter. It came out in Nov. They were very late.
> 
> At the same CES they announced the free steaming apps. A new CEO killed those.
> 
> And over the years software updates may take longer than expected (hardly unusual in any industry).
> 
> This makes them infamous of being late/slow?


To be fair this has gone back to the beginning. I was around in the early, early, days when even some very essential and core features didn't exist. (like the ability to rearrange the SP list) And at the time we were promised v2 of the software for almost a year before it was finally released. They've also announced a bunch of features, partnerships and even products at CES over the years that were later killed off or never came to fruition. I even personally sold them a piece of software I wrote, and worked on it with them for many months to make it better, only to ultimately have it shelved and never released.

Now I don't think that will be the case with this Android TV device, but it's possible it could be released with bugs or limitations that take too long to fix and frustrate users. That's happened many times in the past. Just look at how long it took them just to convert all the screens in TE3 to HD. Like 3 generations of hardware.


----------



## BillyClyde

BigJimOutlaw said:


> You'd think they'd do an unboxing and run us through the out of box experience and give us some actual substance and feel for how it works instead of repeating their "we merge content" schtick half a dozen times. Plug the 5000 apps..





BigJimOutlaw said:


> Tuesdays. Edge, Bolt Vox, Mini Vox, original Bolt, Roamio, and Premiere were all Tuesday launches.





Noelmel said:


> Thanks! That's exactly what I was wondering. So we have 2 Tuesday's left in April.... fingers crossed for this week. I really wanna play with this before I have to go back to work in May lol
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I bet they release the unboxing video this Tuesday and the Stream 4K on the last Tuesday of April.


----------



## Noelmel

BillyClyde said:


> I bet they release the unboxing video this Tuesday and the Stream 4K on the last Tuesday of April.


Haha probably. They had been doing them every Friday but then got off track maybe that's why they did 2 to catch up

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cwoody222

BigJimOutlaw said:


> We've talked about their glacial speed in various ways for years.
> 
> Android streaming support "coming soon" for 2 years. They issued some joint press release regarding DLNA support that went nowhere. Comcast customers are still waiting on their cablecard-free security solution. And their VOD solution. During a research panel some of us were told profiles were "on the timeline". I reckon nobody bothered to wait for the Twitch app that was supposedly in the works.
> 
> Some just off the top of my head, plenty more that were forgotten. These things didn't have specific dates, but they don't need them. At some point they can safely written off as never happening.


Things talked about in research panels and things Comcast users simply want hardly count.


----------



## innocentfreak

cwoody222 said:


> Things talked about in research panels and things Comcast users simply want hardly count.


https://www.multichannel.com/news/comcast-tivo-working-non-cablecard-approach-375989


----------



## Diana Collins

realityboy said:


> The Reelgood app is supposed to launch shows on Roku using your phone. I haven't tried it yet though.


The Roku integration is working great for me. I have the app on my iPad and it collects content from all the major sources (and a lot of niche ones) and presents them on a page than can be sorted, filtered and grouped, provides curated lists, and genre groupings, plus a "TV Roulette" that picks a title at random. There is a small remote icon that you launch, pick the Roku to control (we have 4) and it takes you directly to the selected content.


----------



## Seth141

Diana Collins said:


> The Roku integration is working great for me. I have the app on my iPad and it collects content from all the major sources (and a lot of niche ones) and presents them on a page than can be sorted, filtered and grouped, provides curated lists, and genre groupings, plus a "TV Roulette" that picks a title at random. There is a small remote icon that you launch, pick the Roku to control (we have 4) and it takes you directly to the selected content.


I have also had success with it. I've been playing around with it all weekend. My hope is that the new TiVo streaming device can provide the same functionality but without having to use our phones.


----------



## mschnebly

Diana Collins said:


> The Roku integration is working great for me. I have the app on my iPad and it collects content from all the major sources (and a lot of niche ones) and presents them on a page than can be sorted, filtered and grouped, provides curated lists, and genre groupings, plus a "TV Roulette" that picks a title at random. There is a small remote icon that you launch, pick the Roku to control (we have 4) and it takes you directly to the selected content.


Wow, this is really nice.


----------



## cwoody222

innocentfreak said:


> https://www.multichannel.com/news/comcast-tivo-working-non-cablecard-approach-375989


I was talking about returning Comcast VOD, not the non-CC solution.

But for that link, it was not a product or service TiVo announced to customers. It was reporting based on an FCC filing. TiVo was working on something and never promised anything. They weren't "late" or scrapped anything. They never announced it.


----------



## davezatz

BigJimOutlaw said:


> We've talked about their glacial speed in various ways for years. [...] Some just off the top of my head, plenty more that were forgotten. These things didn't have specific dates, but they don't need them. At some point they can safely written off as never happening.


Remember when Nintendo announced TiVo integration on Wii? How many years for cellular streaming on iPhone? How many years to complete the HDUI?


----------



## cwoody222

davezatz said:


> Remember when Nintendo announced TiVo integration on Wii? How many years for cellular streaming on iPhone? How many years to complete the HDUI?


Aww, I did really want that WiiU integration...


----------



## cybergrimes

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Some just off the top of my head, plenty more that were forgotten. These things didn't have specific dates, but they don't need them. At some point they can safely written off as never happening.


This could easily be on Philips but I'll throw in the TiVo/Philips partnership with a Philips branded PVR that was touted as coming out fall of 2017. I don't remember seeing any news about since beginning of that same year. Philips PVRs 'Powered By TiVo' Planned For Fall | HD Guru


----------



## Dan203

innocentfreak said:


> https://www.multichannel.com/news/comcast-tivo-working-non-cablecard-approach-375989


They could integrate this into the new Stream 4K the same way they're currently integrating Sling. Although one of the big issues they had with that panel back in 2014 was that the MSOs wanted to control the experience, they didn't want to allow deep linking into their content because they wanted to be able to show ads and try to up sell people in their own UI. DVR makers wanted to bypass all of that and just deep link to the content directly.


----------



## Seth141

Noelmel said:


> Thanks! That's exactly what I was wondering. So we have 2 Tuesday's left in April.... fingers crossed for this week. I really wanna play with this before I have to go back to work in May lol
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So what do we think? Are we thinking tomorrow is the day?


----------



## Teavo

I'm voting no.


----------



## jaselzer

Teavo said:


> I'm voting no.


Unfortunately not even this month. I am guessing July maybe. But they will not even let us know when. They will completely ignore the fact that the CEO promised April.


----------



## Teavo

They are missing a HUGE marketing opportunity with stay at home. Before too long nobody will want to go near a streaming device or show due to burnout. Then bye bye any decent sales opportunity.


----------



## Mikeguy

Teavo said:


> They are missing a HUGE marketing opportunity with stay at home. Before too long nobody will want to go near a streaming device or show due to burnout. Then bye bye any decent sales opportunity.


I agree. But who knows if TiVo has them manufactured, yet/can get them?


----------



## jaselzer

I agree. TiVo is a weird sort of “their own worst enemy”.


----------



## trip1eX

I don't think it matters one (way) or the other. The odds are greatly against them no matter what.


----------



## mattyro7878

Can we hope the Sling freebie is a half hearted promo in conjunction with Tivo?? Would Sling be doing this if there was no virus?


----------



## Teavo

I don't think it relates. Many stream services and channels have been opening up due solely to the stay at home orders. Not because of TiVo. I doubt they are even counting on TiVo to help boost sales.


----------



## mdavej

mattyro7878 said:


> Can we hope the Sling freebie is a half hearted promo in conjunction with Tivo?? Would Sling be doing this if there was no virus?


I think the Sling promo is ENTIRELY because of the virus. Sling runs on millions of Roku, Fire, Apple and Android devices, not to mention phone, tablets and browsers. The few thousand Tivo Stream 4k units that might sell in the next few months are a tiny drop in the ocean of devices already out there.

If Tivo or Sling wanted to move product, they would promote it. Besides these useless youtube videos that get a couple thousand views, I haven't seen any other promotion anywhere by either party. All Sling would have to do during the "Happy Hour" commercial every 5 minutes is mention the new Tivo device. They've been completely silent.


----------



## Teavo

Who knows. TiVo may toss out a few hundred of these to rid themselves of stock and when depleted, and realizing they were too late to the game, they'll wash their hands of it and say it was a fun experiment and that's that.

Sadly anyone buying it probably will never see any updates after day one


----------



## Teavo

I also wanted to add that to have a fraction of a chance, TiVo better have these for sale at several local big box stores like Roku and Firesticks are. If all they are is an order online only deal, they are DOA.


----------



## Seth141

This response to someone’s twitter question was posted a few hours ago. I now think it’s tomorrow.


----------



## mrsean

jaselzer said:


> I agree. TiVo is a weird sort of "their own worst enemy".


It's always been this way for Tivo.


----------



## GSJ

And by the way, TiVo Stream 4K is coming in just days, so keep your eye out on our Facebook Page for some very exclusive news!


----------



## WVZR1

GSJ said:


> And by the way, TiVo Stream 4K is coming in just days, so keep your eye out on our Facebook Page for some very exclusive news!


there's many of us that don't do that 'FACE thing' and there's likely many more that shouldn't!!!!


----------



## Teavo

I agree. I wish all businesses would avoid making FB their only webpage.


----------



## GSJ

WVZR1 said:


> there's many of us that don't do that 'FACE thing' and there's likely many more that shouldn't!!!!




Fortunately, it's a public Facebook page, so you can look at it without getting Zuckerberg cooties, and I'm sure it will be announced via other venues. (Like e-mail, if you signed up on the official page.) I'm sure it will get plenty of discussion here, too.


----------



## jaselzer

hmm, I might be wrong about what I said. This sounds super hopeful!

I could be a wise-ass and point out that "coming in just days..." could mean sometime in the neverending future, but then I would be giving CWoody222 a justifiable reason to attack


----------



## shwru980r

I might buy one if it's possible to side load the Android Tivo app and control it with a Bluetooth mouse and if there is a browser.


----------



## WVZR1

GSJ said:


> Fortunately, it's a public Facebook page, so you can look at it without getting Zuckerberg cooties, and I'm sure it will be announced via other venues. (Like e-mail, if you signed up on the official page.) I'm sure it will get plenty of discussion here, too.


There ain't NO NEED TO PEEK!!!


----------



## Dan203

shwru980r said:


> I might buy one if it's possible to side load the Android Tivo app and control it with a Bluetooth mouse and if there is a browser.


It's an Android TV device, so it should have some side loading capability. Although I guess TiVo could turn off access to that feature via their UI, which would mean you'd have to access it via SSH or some other means like you use to have to do on older Fire tablets. May not be easy, but it should be possible. Now whether or not there are enough hacker types out there who'll buy one and figure out how to do it is a different story.


----------



## Dan203

Based on their latest Facebook post from 20 minutes ago it sounds like they might still be launching it today....




__ https://www.facebook.com/


----------



## Noelmel

^^ came here to post the same thing. Here's a screenshot for those who can't see the link










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dan203

Given that it's already after 5pm on the West coast it's unlikely to launch today. But it's possible they could post the announcement, and take the NDA off reviews, tonight and open up ordering tomorrow.


----------



## foghorn2

Very close............


----------



## janitor53

Really wish they'd surprise with DVR firmware switching to this. Would absolutely breathe new life into their business.


----------



## Dan203

janitor53 said:


> Really wish they'd surprise with DVR firmware switching to this. Would absolutely breathe new life into their business.


People just started reporting that Comcast has started moving channels to IPTV only. It's the beginning of the end for their traditional retail DVR.

Although I wouldn't mind seeing services other than Sling being offered for direct integration.


----------



## steinbch

It looks like their website is being updated right now. The main page loads but most links direct you to a maintenance page. Maybe it is coming tonight still.


----------



## Seth141

steinbch said:


> It looks like their website is being updated right now. The main page loads but most links direct you to a maintenance page. Maybe it is coming tonight still.


That must be what's happening. Exciting!


----------



## Noelmel

Exciting! Does Amazon and The Weakness usualy have things the same time as the website or later on. I ended up getting my Lux remote off Amazon not sure does Tivo site charge shipping? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mrizzo80

TiVo or Best Buy should be the best bet, right? Amazon is de-prioritizing stuff like this.


----------



## Seth141

Update: If you go to the “contact us” page, the TiVo stream 4k is now listed as one of the devices to pick. It’s imminent now.


----------



## TKnight206

Dan203 said:


> People just started reporting that Comcast has started moving channels to IPTV only. It's the beginning of the end for their traditional retail DVR.
> 
> Although I wouldn't mind seeing services other than Sling being offered for direct integration.


Are you referring to https://www.tivocommunity.com/commu.../xfinity-dropping-linear-hd-channels.576336/? I don't think Comcast is dropping channels.

Before, the 1000+ channels would be duplicates of the lower 999- channels, but unique and mapped in a way that like channels would be next to each other. These 1000+ channels tended to be QAM. But it sounds like some of them have been converted to IPTV, whereas the 999- legacy channels stayed on QAM.

Also, there are sometimes new channels added which are truly IPTV-only.
For example, TeenNick has been 480i for the longest time on Comcast, but now there is an HD version of it in the upper 1000+ range, but no SD duplicate. The higher channel doesn't work on TiVo since it's an HD IPTV channel. If you want to watch TeenNick on TiVo, you have to watch it in 480i on the lower channel number.

On TE3, go to the guide.
Set Guide Options to *Channels: All*
Then sort by channel name.
Find TeenNick, perhaps by putting in the numbers for that channel if you already know.
You should be able to see the HD IPTV one below it in the guide, even though TiVo can't tune it in.
If you have the right package, the SD one should come in, but not the higher numbered channel.
(I think TeenNick is Digital Preferred?)

Has there been a situation where they removed a QAM channel completely then added it to IPTV? I assume not, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited to add: The International channels, which were available on QAM, I think are now IPTV-only. That's so unfortunate.


----------



## foghorn2

unless something changes, dont expect hulu on this..


----------



## BillyClyde

Seth141 said:


> Update: If you go to the "contact us" page, the TiVo stream 4k is now listed as one of the devices to pick. It's imminent now.


Yeah, I found this but most of the links don't work yet. So I'm sure it's imminent.

Tivo Customer Support Community


----------



## jaselzer

Not yet and I am going to say that I am disappointed. Why can't Tivo simply announce when they will release the product rather than this adolescent type of "teasing".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cwoody222

jaselzer said:


> Not yet and I am going to say that I am disappointed. Why can't Tivo simply announce when they will release the product rather than this adolescent type of "teasing".
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nothing will make you happy.

If it doesn't get released in April, they lied.

If it does, you don't like the way they did it.


----------



## jaselzer

cwoody222 said:


> Nothing will make you happy.
> 
> If it doesn't get released in April, they lied.
> 
> If it does, you don't like the way they did it.


"Nothing will make you happy": Inaccurate
"If it doesn't get released in April, they lied": Quite literally true unless they clarify and amend their previous statement stating that April is the launch month.
"If it does, you don't like the way they did it": That is also true. They could release it in ten minutes from this moment and I would still believe they poorly handle product and customer communication.

And a rollicking good morning to you Chris! Have a good day. Warmly, John


----------



## ellinj

foghorn2 said:


> unless something changes, dont expect hulu on this..


I thought I read somewhere that you will be able to install apps from the Google, but I am guessing you could be referring to guide integration. Is there something toxic about the relationship between Hulu and Tivo that I haven't heard about?


----------



## Lenonn

shwru980r said:


> I wonder if Tivo will push pre roll ads to this device.


I asked on Twitter. Their response:


> Thank you for consulting TiVo. However, there's no further announcement yet regarding the features of the TiVo Stream 4K. To learn more about it, you can visit this link: TiVo Stream 4K - Coming soon


----------



## WVZR1

Dan203 said:


> People just started reporting that Comcast has started moving channels to IPTV only. It's the beginning of the end for their traditional retail DVR.


You might pay more attention to those that are being moved from QAM to IPTV. I don't believe CableCARD TiVo is dead but further 'development' certainly is unlikely. I'd think the lack of quality HDD likely contributed as much to 'loss of interest' as QAM to IPTV.


----------



## janitor53

Dan203 said:


> People just started reporting that Comcast has started moving channels to IPTV only. It's the beginning of the end for their traditional retail DVR.
> 
> Although I wouldn't mind seeing services other than Sling being offered for direct integration.


I'm talking about OTA. OTA is where the growth is, you can see it because of all the new players in the space: channel master, amazon, channels app, tablo, etc, and the investment in the form of ATSC 3.0. In fact, sling is a perfect integration for this because some places don't have the networks on sling. It seems like pure insanity not to take advantage of this, but tivo has been operating this way for years.


----------



## mattyro7878

I feel like a man waving a $50 bill and nobody notices. Maybe they know people are gonna buy the Stream4k whether it's today, tomorrow or Christmas.


----------



## WVZR1

mattyro7878 said:


> I feel like a man waving a $50 bill and nobody notices. Maybe they know people are gonna buy the Stream4k whether it's today, tomorrow or Christmas.


You might need to add a 'AJ - $20' to get any attention!!!!


----------



## jaselzer

I feel it is a strange form of behavior when they tease "coming very soon!". Why not simply state a date of launch? Unless, of course, they cannot determine one.


----------



## Noelmel

foghorn2 said:


> unless something changes, dont expect hulu on this..


The sneek peak videos show Hulu integration and it's listed on the TiVo stream 4K page on the website










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mikeguy

jaselzer said:


> "If it does, you don't like the way they did it": That is also true. They could release it in ten minutes from this moment and I would still believe they poorly handle product and customer communication.


Sorry, but, and with the greatest of respect, they don't have any obligation to communicate with customers as to the bringing out of the device. They announced earlier when it would come out, they issued a bunch of "feature featurettes" on the device, they set up webpages about the device complete with an update sign-up option--what more do they need to do, as they, themselves, no doubt are scrambling a bit (esp. in a pandemic) to coordinate lots of departments (marketing, shipping/receiving, product fulfillment, product support, third-party vendors, etc.) to bring the product out?


----------



## Mikeguy

jaselzer said:


> I feel it is a strange form of behavior when they tease "coming very soon!". Why not simply state a date of launch? Unless, of course, they cannot determine one.


Well, of course they don't want to set a precise date (or time of day, lol)--dates can be missed, esp. in the midst of a pandemic. People here already are complaining about the setting of a _month_.


----------



## jaselzer

Mikeguy said:


> Sorry, but, and with the greatest of respect, they don't have any obligation to communicate with customers as to the bringing out of the device. They announced earlier when it would come out, they issued a bunch of "feature featurettes" on the device, they set up webpages about the device complete with an update sign-up option--what more do they need to do, as they, themselves, no doubt are scrambling a bit (esp. in a pandemic) to coordinate lots of departments (marketing, shipping/receiving, product fulfillment, product support, third-party vendors, etc.) to bring the product out?


Mikeguy, I appreciate your politeness when disagreeing(thank you): In general, I agree with your statement that "they do not have an obligation to communicate with customers....". However, in this circumstance, I feel Tivo does have an obligation to do so. Specifically, the CEO announced that the Streamer will be launched in April. Fine, and I understand, there are still 8 days left in the month. Once a company makes a declaration, as Tivo's CEO did, they are also obligated to announce any deviation from the previous announcement. This is the reason why most companies do not state specifics and will say things such as coming soon, etc. Because once you state something specific you are obligated to be specific and responsive to any changes. But, I do absolutely agree with you in general. Companies do not have an obligation to make such information available to the public. It is only in this specific circumstance I feel otherwise.

Regards, John


----------



## Mikeguy

jaselzer said:


> Mikeguy, I appreciate your politeness when disagreeing(thank you): In general, I agree with your statement that "they do not have an obligation to communicate with customers....". However, in this circumstance, I feel Tivo does have an obligation to do so. Specifically, the CEO announced that the Streamer will be launched in April. Fine, and I understand, there are still 8 days left in the month. Once a company makes a declaration, as Tivo's CEO did, they are also obligated to announce any deviation from the previous announcement. This is the reason why most companies do not state specifics and will say things such as coming soon, etc. Because once you state something specific you are obligated to be specific and responsive to any changes. But, I do absolutely agree with you in general. Companies do not have an obligation to make such information available to the public. It is only in this specific circumstance I feel otherwise.
> 
> Regards, John


I agree--the courtesy of an announcement would be nice, including if plans/schedules have changed. But again, just to remind everyone and as you noted, April still has 30 days in it.  And TiVo still is on schedule with the earlier announcement (which, candidly, I'm shocked about, given TiVo's track records).


----------



## jaselzer

Mikeguy said:


> I agree--the courtesy of an announcement would be nice, including if plans/schedules have changed. But again, just to remind everyone and as you noted, April still has 30 days in it.  And Amazon still is on schedule with the earlier announcement (which, candidly, I'm shocked about, given Amazon's track records).


What announcement from Amazon?


----------



## Mikeguy

jaselzer said:


> What announcement from Amazon?


Oops, lol, my bad--I meant TiVo (corrected). (Don't get excited!)


----------



## jaselzer

LoL, I DID get excited!!!


----------



## Mikeguy

jaselzer said:


> LoL, I DID get excited!!!


(Sorry about that! There's also a thread going on here at TCF about Amazon's* (sometimes kinda poor) order fulfillment/delivery estimates nowadays, and I mixed up the disappointments, lol.)

* Yes, I really do mean Amazon here.


----------



## foghorn2

View attachment 48267
View attachment 48267


Noelmel said:


> The sneek peak videos show Hulu integration and it's listed on the TiVo stream 4K page on the website
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hulu is not allowing native access to the Device Tivo is using. If you look lower on the web page, the Hulu logo is missing now.


----------



## Dan203

Disappointed. After all the teasing yesterday I thought for sure it would be released today.


----------



## foghorn2

Dan203 said:


> Disappointed. After all the teasing yesterday I thought for sure it would be released today.


If you signed up, you will receive an email so you can purchase it directly from tivo.


----------



## Dan203

foghorn2 said:


> If you signed up, you will receive an email so you can purchase it directly from tivo.


Today? I thought I did sign up a while ago, but never got an email.


----------



## Dan203

foghorn2 said:


> If you signed up, you will receive an email so you can purchase it directly from tivo.


Just tried two different devices (iPad and Android tablet) and that page doesn't work on either. Click "sign up" and nothing happens.


----------



## jaselzer

I, quite awhile ago, signed up twice on the email notification page and have yet to receive any notification. Maybe I will sign up a third time for fun.

Postmortem: you are right: the email signup notification is not working. Fun times:tonguewink:


----------



## mattyro7878

We should all be grateful we are annoyed that we cant give our $50 away fast enough for something 90% of us don't need. There are thousands of people sitting in cars for over 12 hours to get some food.


----------



## Noelmel

foghorn2 said:


> View attachment 48267
> View attachment 48267
> 
> 
> Hulu is not allowing native access to the Device Tivo is using. If you look lower on the web page, the Hulu logo is missing now.
> 
> View attachment 48268


I noticed that too the Hulu icon was never there. But I've watched the videos several times and they demonstrate it and shows the Hulu icons and the girl mentions Hulu shows. Guess we'll just have to wait and see when it finally is released

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jaselzer

Just chatted with Tivo support. You can imagine their response: "Check the website for available dates. W


mattyro7878 said:


> We should all be grateful we are annoyed that we cant give our $50 away fast enough for something 90% of us don't need. There are thousands of people sitting in cars for over 12 hours to get some food.


What you say is true. We are discussing "first world problems" when it comes to the Streamer.


----------



## Teavo

What's strange is at the bottom of their ad page where fine print is, it still says Hulu requires a subscription.


----------



## Marc

In the middle of their /comingsoon page, it says:


> Kick app flipping and remote juggling off the couch. The movies, shows and sports you love from Netflix, *Hulu*, Prime Video, live TV and more, all in one easy-to-use integrated experience.


----------



## foghorn2

Marc said:


> In the middle of their /comingsoon page, it says:


SEI Robotics is not allowed by Hulu, unless things change, that will continue to be "soon".


----------



## Dan203

foghorn2 said:


> SEI Robotics is not allowed by Hulu, unless things change, that will continue to be "soon".


Just because this appears to be the same hardware doesn't mean they'll have the same restrictions. TiVo has an existing relationship with Hulu, it's mentioned all oven the product page and they specifically showed it in those videos. So it seems likely they're going to have Hulu support even if SEI Robotics does not.


----------



## Noelmel

Dan203 said:


> Just because this appears to be the same hardware doesn't mean they'll have the same restrictions. TiVo has an existing relationship with Hulu, it's mentioned all oven the product page and they specifically showed it in those videos. So it seems likely they're going to have Hulu support even if SEI Robotics does not.


I agree. I mean it works with OnePass now on TiVo so I expect the same. Hopefully anyways. Because it also does Netflix and thought I read Apple TV channels doesn't work with Netflix

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## foghorn2

Dan203 said:


> Just because this appears to be the same hardware doesn't mean they'll have the same restrictions. TiVo has an existing relationship with Hulu, it's mentioned all oven the product page and they specifically showed it in those videos. So it seems likely they're going to have Hulu support even if SEI Robotics does not.


The restriction is that the Air Tv device is primarily a Sling Streamer, which the Tivo Stream 4K is also.
Lets see how consumer friendly the jerks at Hulu (Disney and all the others) really are.


----------



## BillyClyde

Noelmel said:


> I agree. I mean it works with OnePass now on TiVo so I expect the same. Hopefully anyways. Because it also does Netflix and thought I read Apple TV channels doesn't work with Netflix
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Netflix works with AppleTV deep linking. I've been watching a bunch of shows this way, including Lost in Space, Tiger King, Waco, etc.

Is this a new Stream 4K video at the bottom of this page? I don't recall seeing it before.

Tivo Customer Support Community

Also, late last night the top left tile was for the Stream 4K, but now it's removed.


----------



## foghorn2

Noelmel said:


> I agree. I mean it works with OnePass now on TiVo so I expect the same. Hopefully anyways. Because it also does Netflix and thought I read Apple TV channels doesn't work with Netflix
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Netflix does not have live steaming channels, Hulu does.


----------



## Dan203

foghorn2 said:


> The restriction is that the Air Tv device is primarily a Sling Streamer, which the Tivo Stream 4K is also.
> Lets see how consumer friendly the jerks at Hulu (Disney and all the others) really are.


Just because Sling is more integrated doesn't mean this is a "Sling streamer". It's not Sling branded in any way, and in fact the only branding on the remote is for Netflix. So I'm not sure you can look at this as the Air TV with the TiVo logo slapped on it. They may be using the same underlying hardware, but the entire interface is basically TiVos TE4.


----------



## foghorn2

Dan203 said:


> Just because Sling is more integrated doesn't mean this is a "Sling streamer". It's not Sling branded in any way, and in fact the only branding on the remote is for Netflix. So I'm not sure you can look at this as the Air TV with the TiVo logo slapped on it. They may be using the same underlying hardware, but the entire interface is basically TiVos TE4.


Its just a Tivo app that loads up first in place of the android Sling app which is still there behind the scenes for the tight integration.

Much like the Sling integration with the Live TV function on the FireTV. And Hulu of course is on the FTV
Since both the Tivo streamer and the Firetv have similar functionality in that respect, Hulu should be on the new streamer.
Time will tell.


----------



## Dan203

foghorn2 said:


> Its just a Tivo app that loads up first in place of the android Sling app which is still there behind the scenes for the tight integration.
> 
> Much like the Sling integration with the Live TV function on the FireTV. And Hulu of course is on the FTV
> Since both the Tivo streamer and the Firetv have similar functionality in that respect, Hulu should be on the new streamer.
> Time will tell.


I don't think that's how it works at all. Google's provider tier only allows one app to load and take over the UI. In this case that has to be the TiVo app. There can't be some Sling app running in the background. In all likelihood TiVo and Sling made some sort of deal that allows TiVo to access Sling's APIs directly so that it can access their cloud DVR directly.

Don't forget TiVo has been selling this AndroidTV platform to MSOs since late 2018. The catch has always been that there is some sort of API layer it needs to access the MSOs cloud DVR, there is no baked in DVR functionality. The only difference here is that this device is running on cheaper hardware, with a TiVo remote and branding, and the API layer connects to Sling instead of the MSOs direct back end cloud DVR.


----------



## foghorn2

Dan203 said:


> I don't think that's how it works at all. Google's provider tier only allows one app to load and take over the UI. In this case that has to be the TiVo app. ....


Well on the AirTV 4k, Sling is just a app that loads first, Andriod TV is still there, you can go to Android TV and kill the Sling APP. I can switch back and forth between Kodi, Sling, YouTube..all running at once. We shall see if Tivo is just another app on Andriod TV like Sling is.


----------



## jaselzer

BillyClyde said:


> Netflix works with AppleTV deep linking. I've been watching a bunch of shows this way, including Lost in Space, Tiger King, Waco, etc.
> 
> Is this a new Stream 4K video at the bottom of this page? I don't recall seeing it before.
> 
> Tivo Customer Support Community
> 
> Also, late last night the top left tile was for the Stream 4K, but now it's removed.


My guess is that someone realized they prematurely put the 4KStreamer up for customer support and since it is not released there cannot be any CS for it. I think that video below is new, but I am not sure. In any event, all our expectations of this being released like now, have been dashed to the ground. Sad


----------



## BillyClyde

jaselzer said:


> My guess is that someone realized they prematurely put the 4KStreamer up for customer support and since it is not released there cannot be any CS for it. I think that video below is new, but I am not sure. *In any event, all our expectations of this being released like now, have been dashed to the ground. Sad*


Cheer up, lil' buckaroo. It'll be out soon enough!


----------



## pfiagra

From the TiVo Blog post of April 20, 2020:

And by the way, TiVo Stream 4K is coming in just days, so keep your eye out on our Facebook Page for some very exclusive news!


----------



## mattyro7878

If we are using a family members log in for say Disney+, will I be able to use it with the Stream4k?? This will be my first streamer other than my tv


----------



## jaselzer

mattyro7878 said:


> If we are using a family members log in for say Disney+, will I be able to use it with the Stream4k?? This will be my first streamer other than my tv


The answer is yes. There is no universal sign in for all the apps you will be using. So you will be signing in on each app independently and therefore it should be no problem using your family member's account.


----------



## EWiser

How long do we think it will be before the first post complaining about the device?


----------



## jaselzer

We are already complaining. LOL


----------



## EWiser

Got getting just the device itself.


----------



## jaselzer

?


----------



## trip1eX

mattyro7878 said:


> If we are using a family members log in for say Disney+, will I be able to use it with the Stream4k?? This will be my first streamer other than my tv


 logins are device agnostic.


----------



## mattyro7878

I guess we are looking at next Tuesday . Others have stated big releases have been on Tuesdays so... (I'm using reverse psychology on TiVo- see if it works!)


----------



## schatham

It will have cutting edge 2008 tech.


----------



## mattyro7878

I'm relying on my Samsung tv for streaming. There is a roku TLC tv in the living room but I really have no streamer in my bedroom. Samsung doesn't cut it as it won't do Appletv. I would like to ram that Tivostream4k right into my big Sony receiver and have all my streaming needs on one input on a device I use daily.


----------



## mdavej

mattyro7878 said:


> I'm relying on my Samsung tv for streaming. There is a roku TLC tv in the living room but I really have no streamer in my bedroom. Samsung doesn't cut it as it won't do Appletv. I would like to ram that Tivostream4k right into my big Sony receiver and have all my streaming needs on one input on a device I use daily.


Sorry, but I'm not seeing Android TV as a supported platform for AppleTV+, nor have I seen it in any of Tivo's screenshots. I'm afraid you'll be stuck with multiple devices for a while.


----------



## jaselzer

mattyro7878 said:


> I guess we are looking at next Tuesday . Others have stated big releases have been on Tuesdays so... (I'm using reverse psychology on TiVo- see if it works!)


If you really wanted to use reverse psychology, you will have to let Tivo know that you truly do not care when they release the 4KStream or even perhaps you could care less that they ever release it! I think if you were to state that, then you will definitely see Tivo immediately launch the 4KStream just to prove you wrong.....or perhaps not


----------



## spiderpumpkin

pfiagra said:


> From the TiVo Blog post of April 20, 2020:
> 
> And by the way, TiVo Stream 4K is coming in just days, so keep your eye out on our Facebook Page for some very exclusive news!


The comments on their FB post show a very confused customer base when it comes to this new device.


----------



## JeffInDFW

I just posted that on Facebook on their page. A large majority of the replies there show they have no idea what this is. Half seem to think this is an app that goes on their Tivo DVR. 1/4th of them are clear that they believe this product offers zero advantage over a Roku or Fire stick. And the majority of the last 1/4th are so clueless about ANYTHING that it is hard to decipher what the heck they are talking about. I'm also surprised at the venom being spewed at Tivo. I know online forums and Facebook are the natural habitat of the troll, but a large percentage of the posters are Tivo customers who are clearly very angry at the company. I wish I worked at Tivo in a VP level position, as there is actually a lot in those posts that Tivo could use to see the perception of the company. To be blunt, Tivo the company has shown there is still talent in the building, but there has been NO rudder from upper management for so long that the company has gone nowhere fast for a very very long time.

Now....For Gods sake, can Tivo please release the damn stream 4k. At midnight on 4/30 if it has not been released, I am ordering the 5 new Rokus in my Amazon cart and not looking back.


----------



## jaselzer

JeffInDFW said:


> I just posted that on Facebook on their page. A large majority of the replies there show they have no idea what this is. Half seem to think this is an app that goes on their Tivo DVR. 1/4th of them are clear that they believe this product offers zero advantage over a Roku or Fire stick. And the majority of the last 1/4th are so clueless about ANYTHING that it is hard to decipher what the heck they are talking about. I'm also surprised at the venom being spewed at Tivo. I know online forums and Facebook are the natural habitat of the troll, but a large percentage of the posters are Tivo customers who are clearly very angry at the company. I wish I worked at Tivo in a VP level position, as there is actually a lot in those posts that Tivo could use to see the perception of the company. To be blunt, Tivo the company has shown there is still talent in the building, but there has been NO rudder from upper management for so long that the company has gone nowhere fast for a very very long time.
> 
> Now....For Gods sake, can Tivo please release the damn stream 4k. At midnight on 4/30 if it has not been released, I am ordering the 5 new Rokus in my Amazon cart and not looking back.


Honestly JeffInDFW, I completely agree with you about the midnight 4/30 issue, especially in light of the fact that Tivo's recent posts state; "very soon", "just days", etc. about the launch. As much as I love Tivo, there are alternatives and I watch cable tv less and less and less these days to the point where I just use my Tivo now as a cable box. I have no problem letting my Tivo DVR's stay in my rack until something goes wrong. Then I will dump them and go with a standard cable box to watch what limited cable I do watch and keep using my Apple TVs and Rokus.


----------



## mattyro7878

I just went to the Facebook page and left in 2 minutes. I go to read the comments . I don't want a voice over of idiots pushing a product on me that I'm already interested in. I did see a lot of tivo hate.


----------



## spiderpumpkin

This device is not going to make sense to people that think it's the newest TiVo DVR or can use it to access their other TiVo recordings. 

It's Sling recording abilities instead of TiVo recordings is like if Amazon released a new Kindle that couldn't access your Amazon ebooks but could access your Apple iBooks. 

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk


----------



## jaselzer

To be honest, what serious minded company posts on Twitter: "Tivo Stream 4K is ALMOST here." WTF, does ALMOST mean? Why be so god dam vague?


----------



## Dan203

foghorn2 said:


> Well on the AirTV 4k, Sling is just a app that loads first, Andriod TV is still there, you can go to Android TV and kill the Sling APP. I can switch back and forth between Kodi, Sling, YouTube..all running at once. We shall see if Tivo is just another app on Andriod TV like Sling is.


I understand that. What I'm saying is that in this case TiVo will be the app that loads first, not Sling. This isn't just going to be an AirTV with a TiVo app. This is going to be an Android TV device, in provider mode, where the TiVo app loads first and is the default dashboard it drops back to when you exit another app. The only way that works with Sling integration is for the TiVo app to have direct control over Sling APIs. The only other option I can think of is if they physically launch the Sling app every time you load a recording or click on a channel, but that would be really clunky so I doubt they'll go that route.


----------



## Dan203

spiderpumpkin said:


> This device is not going to make sense to people that think it's the newest TiVo DVR or can use it to access their other TiVo recordings.
> 
> It's Sling recording abilities instead of TiVo recordings is like if Amazon released a new Kindle that couldn't access your Amazon ebooks but could access your Apple iBooks.


Not quite the same thing. There are some technical limitations that make streaming from their traditional DVRs harder than it seems. The current TiVo DVRs use a very specific type of hardware based encryption for MRV streaming that is likely not compatible with Android or a device of this size and power. They also record the cable stream directly, which mean recordings typically have higher bandwidth requirements and don't stream well over wifi.

So that leaves the realtime transcoder like they use in the mobile apps. However if you've ever used the mobile apps you know those don't provide the best user experience when it comes to trickplay. They buffer enough to allow you a couple of replays or skips, but once you exceed the limits of the buffer it takes several seconds to resync the video. Live TV also works very differently. When you select a show to watch live it has to actually start a recording on the TiVo. It can't stream directly from the live buffer. So using this method would work, sort of, but it wouldn't provide the same user experience people are use to with a Mini and would likely cause more complaints than anything else. (did you ever try the old FireTV app? It was terrible!)

Minis work well because they are basically just stripped down DVRs using real MRV. They contain basically the same chipset as the main DVR (or a sister chipset) just without some of the extra bits, like the hard drive and tuners, that make them able to record. This is why the Mini VOX costs $180 and not $50.

This device is not meant to be a supplement to their traditional DVRs. They're meant to be the first step on a path forward once linear cable dies and there is no longer a market for traditional DVRs.


----------



## Mikeguy

jaselzer said:


> To be honest, what serious minded company posts on Twitter: "Tivo Stream 4K is ALMOST here." WTF, does ALMOST mean? Why be so god dam vague?


Are we getting a bit anxious waiting?


----------



## Dan203

It is kind of lame to post stuff like *very* and ALMOST and really mean next week. If they knew all along it was actually going to be next week, and there wasn't some logistics holdup, then they are terrible at marketing.

Also if they actually knew long ago that it wasn't going to be released until the absolute last week, almost last day, in April then why tell everyone April. Say May and surprise everyone with an "early" release, don't say the technical month when you know everyone is going to assume the first week or two of that month.


----------



## jaselzer

Mikeguy said:


> Are we getting a bit anxious waiting?


 YES



Dan203 said:


> It is kind of lame to post stuff like *very* and ALMOST and really mean next week. If they knew all along it was actually going to be next week, and there wasn't some logistics holdup, then they are terrible at marketing.
> 
> Also if they actually knew long ago that it wasn't going to be released until the absolute last week, almost last day, in April then why tell everyone April. Say May and surprise everyone with an "early" release, don't say the technical month when you know everyone is going to assume the first week or two of that month.


 I absolutely agree with you.


----------



## foghorn2

Dan203 said:


> I understand that. What I'm saying is that in this case TiVo will be the app that loads first, not Sling. This isn't just going to be an AirTV with a TiVo app. This is going to be an Android TV device, in provider mode, where the TiVo app loads first and is the default dashboard it drops back to when you exit another app. The only way that works with Sling integration is for the TiVo app to have direct control over Sling APIs. The only other option I can think of is if they physically launch the Sling app every time you load a recording or click on a channel, but that would be really clunky so I doubt they'll go that route.


Yeah, thats what the FireTv does with its integration with Sling, and it sucks big time


----------



## mrizzo80

I don’t understand stringing out the release date announcement either. Just announce when you expect it to be available. 

There’s no competitive advantage reason to keep a lid on the release date. 

They aren’t building excitement by doing this. They are just ticking off their current enthusiast customers right now.


----------



## jaselzer

mrizzo80 said:


> I don't understand stringing out the release date announcement either. Just announce when you expect it to be available.
> 
> There's no competitive advantage reason to keep a lid on the release date.
> 
> They aren't building excitement by doing this. They are just ticking off their current enthusiast customers right now.


"

Because they do not honestly know when it will be ready to launch. They have some reason to hope or believe it will be soon, but their using the word "soon" loosely enough to feel they are properly communicating with potential customers. The release will not be this month. Otherwise, they would give a date. I cannot tell you why there is a problem with the release(perhaps supply chain issues with the virus, perhaps software issues, perhaps licensing issues with streaming services, etc.) But as disappointed as I am to have to say this, we are not "close to release" in the way all of us in the thread normally think about the words "soon" or "close". It will not be April, and we can hope for May but we have no reason to believe it will be even at that point. I am deeply disappointed, truly I am. But all the signs point to obfuscation regarding the actual date. They just do not want to say it because they are way off from the release.


----------



## foghorn2

They are doing that to create drama and excitement for the product launch.....



for about 10 or 15 or so of us who really care


----------



## trip1eX

Dan203 said:


> It is kind of lame to post stuff like *very* and ALMOST and really mean next week. If they knew all along it was actually going to be next week, and there wasn't some logistics holdup, then they are terrible at marketing.
> 
> Also if they actually knew long ago that it wasn't going to be released until the absolute last week, almost last day, in April then why tell everyone April. Say May and surprise everyone with an "early" release, don't say the technical month when you know everyone is going to assume the first week or two of that month.


It's kind of generic/cheesy. Not that I care or think it matters in this case.


----------



## mattyro7878

I keep checking back here to see if everyone is going nuts cuz it has been released.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

Naw they're going nuts because it has _not_ been released. Because TCF.


----------



## JeffInDFW

With them adding the word "VERY' to "coming soon", it would be a total jerk move to have the release be after the end of April (which was over 2 weeks away at that point). I'm pretty sure it will be out before next Wednesday April 30.

Oh....and I'm one of the guys who signed up with my email address to get updates over a month ago and still have not received a single email. Not inspiring of faith.....


----------



## jaselzer

JeffInDFW said:


> With them adding the word "VERY' to "coming soon", it would be a total jerk move to have the release be after the end of April (which was over 2 weeks away at that point). I'm pretty sure it will be out before next Wednesday April 30.
> 
> Oh....and I'm one of the guys who signed up with my email address to get updates over a month ago and still have not received a single email. Not inspiring of faith.....


I am also one of those guys that signed up with my email address. We do not even get an acknowledgement of having done so.


----------



## GSJ

We were watching Wheel of Fortune last night (don't judge) and the preroll ad was for the TiVo Stream 4K. Of course, you can't repeat the preroll ads and I was distracted, so I don't remember much about it. It did look to be slightly higher quality than the typical preroll ad, but it didn't have any info about where/when to buy the darn thing, of course.


----------



## aaronwt

I used half a dozen of my email addresses. So I'll be less likely to miss their email saying the TiVo Stream 4k is available for sale.

Sent from my Tab A 8.0


----------



## cwoody222

GSJ said:


> We were watching Wheel of Fortune last night (don't judge) and the preroll ad was for the TiVo Stream 4K. Of course, you can't repeat the preroll ads and I was distracted, so I don't remember much about it. It did look to be slightly higher quality than the typical preroll ad, but it didn't have any info about where/when to buy the darn thing, of course.


Is this what you saw?

They've been running this video as a preroll recently. It's been around awhile online, they just added it to the preroll inventory.


----------



## jaselzer

I try to wrap my head around any rational idea that NOT stating a release date, but rather throwing out terms such as "soon" and "almost", reflects marketing genius. I simply cannot come up with a reasonable strategy that makes any sense whatsoever. I do not know what it is meant to accomplish. I hate to say it but the only answer that comes to my mind is simply that they literally do not have a clear date for release and they are winging it when it comes to trying to maintain whatever momentum exists with respect to this product.


----------



## pfiagra

:clapping:


jaselzer said:


> I try to wrap my head around any rational idea that NOT stating a release date, but rather throwing out terms such as "soon" and "almost", reflects marketing genius. I simply cannot come up with a reasonable strategy that makes any sense whatsoever. I do not know what it is meant to accomplish. I hate to say it but the only answer that comes to my mind is simply that they literally do not have a clear date for release and they are winging it when it comes to trying to maintain whatever momentum exists with respect to this product.


Congratulations! This is your 37th post in this thread expressing your frustration over the lack of detailed information on the release date. If I had to bet, I'd put my money on this not being the last.


----------



## jaselzer

pfiagra said:


> :clapping:
> 
> Congratulations! This is your 37th post in this thread expressing your frustration over the lack of detailed information on the release date. If I had to bet, I'd put my money on this not being the last.


Let me prove you right, so you can feel good about yourself, simply by responding to your post. Now I have proven you correct, congratulations. It is not every day that one can claim complete vindication!!!


----------



## mattyro7878

Ok. Big Friday release. I can smell it.


----------



## jaselzer

I smell it too, but we might be smelling different things


----------



## Teavo

I smell TiVo sadness.


----------



## snerd

jaselzer said:


> I do not know what it is meant to accomplish.


My theory: they've seen your posts here and they're just toying with you.


----------



## GSJ

cwoody222 said:


> Is this what you saw?
> 
> They've been running this video as a preroll recently. It's been around awhile online, they just added it to the preroll inventory.


That's the one. Thanks!


----------



## SugarBowl

When did it launch ?


----------



## mattyro7878

Its getting late for the big Friday release!!


----------



## jaselzer

SugarBowl said:


> When did it launch ?


When did what launch?


----------



## Dan203

jaselzer said:


> When did what launch?


I think he's referring to the title of the thread. Which is a bit misleading.


----------



## cwoody222

SugarBowl said:


> When did it launch ?


It hasn't.


----------



## jaselzer

That is true: It is misleading. 

The answer is that it has NOT launched. Personally, I think we are looking at a summer launch, no where near "Almost" nor "Very Soon" as the adverts have tried to make us think.

Tivo is the best example of how a consumer products company should NOT behave.


----------



## Dan203

jaselzer said:


> That is true: It is misleading.
> 
> The answer is that it has NOT launched. Personally, I think we are looking at a summer launch, no where near "Almost" nor "Very Soon" as the adverts have tried to make us think.
> 
> Tivo is the best example of how a consumer products company should NOT behave.


Well TiVo use to be Rovi who use to be Macrovision. This is not the same company that invented the DVR in 1998. They died a few years back and were swallowed by a bigger fish who assumed their identity.


----------



## jaselzer

Dan203 said:


> Well TiVo use to be Rovi who use to be Macrovision. This is not the same company that invented the DVR in 1998. They died a few years back and were swallowed by a bigger fish who assumed their identity.


Yes it seems to be the case, unfortunately.


----------



## BillyClyde

Why is their shopping site still down if they're not retooling it to launch this thing? I still get the following message when I go there:



> "*We'll be right back*
> 
> We're busy improving our site to supercharge your shopping experience; unfortunately credit card transactions will not be completed during this time. We will be back as quick as SkipMode zips through a commercial break. Please reach out to Customer Support team Tivo Customer Support Community for any transactions in the meanwhile."


----------



## cwoody222

The Store isn't down for me. It wasn't the other morning when others reported it down.

Maybe it's just an error that some people are seeing?


----------



## jaselzer

Not down for me either


----------



## Noelmel

It was down for me this whole time as well until a few min ago. If I hit “products” it had an updating the site error 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Seth141

BillyClyde said:


> Why is their shopping site still down if they're not retooling it to launch this thing? I still get the following message when I go there:


So I actually discovered that it's different based on the browser I'm using. In safari I get the same error message, but when I use chrome it is not down.


----------



## Dan203

Does the shopping site actually work for anyone? When I try to add something to my cart it just does nothing. Same as the button on the Stream 4k page for entering your email. It's like their whole site is broken and they don't even know it.


----------



## jaselzer

Just sad. So unfortunate just how dysfunctional TiVo is as a company.


----------



## Mikeguy

Would be a real bummer if the Stream 4K had been out this entire week but no one was aware if it, because the TiVo website was broken.


----------



## cwoody222

Nope, I added stuff to my cart minutes ago, trying to replicate the error others were seeing. Worked fine.

I also just added my email to their list. Went to a “THANK YOU” message.

Sorry, Dan, it’s just you 

So this past Tuesday we all thought the shop was “down” and a product launch was imminent and it was really just an error for some, not all!


----------



## jaselzer

LoL. Personally, I will be deeply disappointed but not surprised if we hear nothing for weeks about the Streamer.


----------



## cwoody222

No problems with Chromium Edge on Windows or Safari on my iPad.


----------



## jaselzer

Worked fine on my laptop, Chrome.


----------



## Dan203

Must be one of the extensions I have installed. I tried Edge and Opera, neither of which have any extensions, and they both worked.


----------



## Dan203

Weird so I disabled all my extension. Restarted. Then tried it again and it worked. So I enabled them one by one and tried each time hoping to find the culprit. But this time it worked, with all of them enabled. The only other thing I did was clear the cache. Maybe I had some old, bad, page stored in the cache and that was getting pulled instead.


----------



## Dan203

Noelmel said:


> It was down for me this whole time as well until a few min ago. If I hit "products" it had an updating the site error


Maybe the cache thing explains all of our issues. If TiVo has some wonky cache header that's preventing people from pulling an updated version of the site from their servers it could cause the browser to pull an old broken version from cache until we force it to reload or clear the cache.


----------



## BillyClyde

cwoody222 said:


> The Store isn't down for me. It wasn't the other morning when others reported it down.
> 
> Maybe it's just an error that some people are seeing?





jaselzer said:


> Not down for me either





Noelmel said:


> It was down for me this whole time as well until a few min ago. If I hit "products" it had an updating the site error
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow that's very strange. I'll try Chrome.



jaselzer said:


> Just sad. So unfortunate just how dysfunctional TiVo is as a company.


This doesn't mean that they aren't retooling their websites for the eminent launch of the Stream 4K. All these issues could be from doing just that.

Stop being such a "Negative Nancy"! You must be a hoot at parties!


----------



## shwru980r

I would think they would release this device on a Monday. Fridays are for bad news.


----------



## schatham

I hope it launches while Sling TV is free after 5pm. Nice way to test the Sling Tivo interface.


----------



## Teavo

The window is closing quicker every day as we start seeing things loosening up and warm weather is here. 

Like I said earlier, people are going to run as far as they can from their TV's very very soon so no need for buying another streamer. 

TiVo, you are the poster child for bad marketing and product introductions.


----------



## Mikeguy

Apart from the people here (or even in this thread, lol), my guess is that the majority of the people who might buy this device don't know about an April intro. date, and probably don't care all that much. Including because, they're thinking about other things right now.


----------



## tenthplanet

With everything that's going (and the general economic uncertainty) I won't hold it against them if they delay releasing it. It might even be better marketing to wait.


----------



## Teavo

So why bother with all the videos and the constant " coming real soon!" crap?


----------



## tenthplanet

Teavo said:


> So why bother with all the videos and the constant " coming real soon!" crap?


Look to movie trailers, coming soon allows you to float/change a date. When an actual TV ad is done then the date is usually fixed. Tivo is still in the trailer phase.


----------



## Dan203

tenthplanet said:


> Look to movie trailers, coming soon allows you to float/change a date. When an actual TV ad is done then the date is usually fixed. Tivo is still in the trailer phase.


This is a little different. They literally posted on Facebook on Tuesday with a message saying it was coming *very* soon and to keep an eye on their page. The way it was worded I thought for sure it was going to be the next day. They're actively teasing their customers. If the day is truly floating then they sadists.


----------



## jaselzer

I general, I agree that the current situation warrants unexpected delays and changes of strategy.However, TiVo announced in January that the streamer will be released in April and they have as of 2 days ago teased numerous times that the streamer 4K is coming imminently. If TiVo where to now state that they were joking and delay the release, it would not only be terrible marketing, it would indicate some strange sociopathic behavior and bring in to question TiVo’s management’s competency on a deep level. Already, they are pushing the limits of “very soon”.


----------



## davezatz

And what exactly is almost here? Pre-orders? Or the actual unit? They could conceivably start taking orders next week ... for June shipment. We shall see. 

Like some, I also wonder if there was a blip in the schedule given the Facebook tease.


----------



## jaselzer

davezatz said:


> And what exactly is almost here? Pre-orders? Or the actual unit? They could conceivably start taking orders next week ... for June shipment. We shall see.
> 
> Like some, I also wonder if there was a blip in the schedule given the Facebook tease.


It is also on twitter: "ALMOST here"(caps are Tivo's). "ALMOST here" and "very soon" is by any normal interpretation, just a few days. Coming Soon when you see it up on the screen is the same thing Tivo first posted on their website and we all knew it meant coming in a few months. Those few months have passed.


----------



## Narkul

Dan203 said:


> Well TiVo use to be Rovi who use to be Macrovision. This is not the same company that invented the DVR in 1998. They died a few years back and were swallowed by a bigger fish who assumed their identity.


Invasion of the DVR Snatchers


----------



## SOUTHDAYTONA DON

davezatz said:


> And what exactly is almost here? Pre-orders? Or the actual unit? They could conceivably start taking orders next week ... for June shipment. We shall see.
> 
> Like some, I also wonder if there was a blip in the schedule given the Facebook tease.


Do you or anyone else know what this product is suppose to do? What would make me to give up my ROKU? Give up my REELGOOD software?


----------



## jaselzer

SOUTHDAYTONA DON said:


> Do you or anyone else know what this product is suppose to do? What would make me to give up my ROKU? Give up my REELGOOD software?


Either your joking or trolling.


----------



## Mikeguy

SOUTHDAYTONA DON said:


> Do you or anyone else know what this product is suppose to do? What would make me to give up my ROKU? Give up my REELGOOD software?


It would replace (or supplement, if you want) your Roku device. It attempts to differentiate itself by trying to integrate services, as I understand it: rather than your accessing content within each service, going one-by-one, it allows you to access content across the services. It also has a deal with Sling where, for a monthly subscription fee, you can use the Sling cloud DVR. And then it uses the award-winning TiVo peanut remote (well, a mini version of it).

Perhaps others here have other ideas about its purported benefits.


----------



## SOUTHDAYTONA DON

Mikeguy said:


> It would replace (or supplement, if you want) your Roku device. It attempts to differentiate itself by trying to integrate services, as I understand it: rather than accessing content within each service, going one-by-one, you access content across the services. It also has a deal with Sling where, for a monthly subscription fee, you can use the Sling cloud DVR. And then it uses the award-winning TiVo peanut remote (well, a mini version of it).


I could only get NETFLIX app to work using my BOLT AUX, forget the other apps.


----------



## Mikeguy

SOUTHDAYTONA DON said:


> I could only get NETFLIX app to work using my BOLT AUX, forget the other apps.


This device uses a different platform than the TiVo DVRs, one that's actually modern and up-to-date  --almost certainly, it's going to have a much better functionality and certainly a greater breadth.

The question in my mind is, as you said: will it offer benefits to make it worthwhile to replace your current other streamers--will people replace (or supplement) their Roku, Fire, and Apple TV devices with this.


----------



## cwoody222

Mikeguy said:


> It would replace (or supplement, if you want) your Roku device. It attempts to differentiate itself by trying to integrate services, as I understand it: rather than your accessing content within each service, going one-by-one, it allows you to access content across the services. It also has a deal with Sling where, for a monthly subscription fee, you can use the Sling cloud DVR. And then it uses the award-winning TiVo peanut remote (well, a mini version of it).
> 
> Perhaps others here have other ideas about its purported benefits.


It also integrates Sling TV's live TV guide into the TiVo UI so you won't have to explicitly open the Sling app to browse or watch live tv. (Assuming you're a Sling subscriber)

So your watchlists from your (supported*) streaming apps, Sling live tv and Sling DVR recordings will all be in one place, with the TiVo UI.

*if a particular app doesn't support the direct integration, it should still likely be available as a standalone app. Since the device runs AndroidTV, there is little chance any mainstream app won't be available.


----------



## Seth141

cwoody222 said:


> It also integrates Sling TV's live TV guide into the TiVo UI so you won't have to explicitly open the Sling app to browse or watch live tv. (Assuming you're a Sling subscriber)
> 
> So your watchlists from your (supported*) streaming apps, Sling live tv and Sling DVR recordings will all be in one place, with the TiVo UI.
> 
> *if a particular app doesn't support the direct integration, it should still likely be available as a standalone app. Since the device runs AndroidTV, there is little chance any mainstream app won't be available.


I think the exception to what you said is the AppleTV+ app. Apparently there is a workaround though using the Firefox app for Android TVs.


----------



## Mikeguy

cwoody222 said:


> It also integrates Sling TV's live TV guide into the TiVo UI so you won't have to explicitly open the Sling app to browse or watch live tv. *(Assuming you're a Sling subscriber)*
> 
> So your watchlists from your (supported*) streaming apps, Sling live tv and Sling DVR recordings will all be in one place, with the TiVo UI.
> 
> *if a particular app doesn't support the direct integration, it should still likely be available as a standalone app. Since the device runs AndroidTV, there is little chance any mainstream app won't be available.


And that's the rub that gets in my way as to this aspect (especially as a TiVo DVR subscriber): yet another subscription fee ($30/month, IIRC?).* Hey, TiVo, here's an idea: if someone already has a TiVo DVR subscription, why don't you throw the Sling subscription in for free?  Instead of using Sling, how nice it would have been for TiVo to have used, oh, I don't know, _TiVo_. 

* After a year of those fees, you could have purchased a TiVo Roamio OTA DVR (including its own TiVo Lifetime subscription).


----------



## cwoody222

Seth141 said:


> I think the exception to what you said is the AppleTV+ app. Apparently there is a workaround though using the Firefox app for Android TVs.


You're correct. I'm not an AppleTV+ subscriber and forgot about them. That one is probably not coming to Android devices any time soon.


----------



## mattyro7878

didnt I see applettv+ as well as disney listed as apps that are available?


----------



## cwoody222

mattyro7878 said:


> didnt I see applettv+ as well as disney listed as apps that are available?


AppleTV+, no. It's not available on Android devices.

Disney+ is available on AndroidTV devices so we can ASSUME it'll be included but I do not believe TiVo has confirmed. It is not one of the logos used in their marketing.

Tivo has also not confirmed which services will be integrated into their one search. Just because an app is available to launch On the device does not mean it'll have tight integration.

The whole point of the device is to integrate services so we should hope most of the big ones are integrated but we really won't know until launch.

Of course, app integration was the whole promise of OnePass and we know how that worked out.


----------



## Seth141

cwoody222 said:


> AppleTV+, no. It's not available on Android devices.
> 
> Disney+ is available on AndroidTV devices so we can ASSUME it'll be included but I do not believe TiVo has confirmed. It is not one of the logos used in their marketing.
> 
> Tivo has also not confirmed which services will be integrated into their one search. Just because an app is available to launch On the device does not mean it'll have tight integration.
> 
> The whole point of the device is to integrate services so we should hope most of the big ones are integrated but we really won't know until launch.
> 
> Of course, app integration was the whole promise of OnePass and we know how that worked out.


They have said in some of their videos that Disney+ will be accessible.

Can someone explain what the difference will be with direct integration of an app vs Google play app integration with an android tv device? I have had Roku, fire and appletv devices over the years but this will be my first android tv device so I'm unclear as to how this works.


----------



## Mikeguy

cwoody222 said:


> Of course, app integration was the whole promise of OnePass and we know how that worked out.


It is sad when you think that TiVo is (abandoning/let stagnate) the app aspect of its DVRs, seemingly kinda/sorta in part so that it can get_ another_ financial stream from a further device that the consumer would need to buy. This all was "supposed to be" part and parcel of the Bolt platform.


----------



## mattyro7878

I really dont care if some streams are not in the search. If i CAN ACCESS dISNEY AND aPPLE, i WOULD BE HAPPY.


----------



## cwoody222

mattyro7878 said:


> I really dont care if some streams are not in the search. If i CAN ACCESS dISNEY AND aPPLE, i WOULD BE HAPPY.


99% chance you're NOT gonna get Apple.

Best you'll probably be able to do is use a browser, as Seth said above.


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/AndroidTV/comments/emo61p


----------



## Charles R

cwoody222 said:


> AppleTV+, no. It's not available on Android devices.


It's supported on Fire TV which runs Android.


----------



## Dan203

Is there a way to get apks off of FireTV? If so maybe you could side load the FireTV apk on AndroidTV?


----------



## cwoody222

Charles R said:


> It's supported on Fire TV which runs Android.


Well, you can be hopeful if you want but I think you're gonna be disappointed.


----------



## foghorn2

SOUTHDAYTONA DON said:


> Do you or anyone else know what this product is suppose to do? What would make me to give up my ROKU? Give up my REELGOOD software?


 I does what Roku can do and more, run lots of google play apps like Kodi, better interface, live tv steaming guide and integration with Sling. Better dvr like remote, but small and modern.


----------



## trip1eX

SOUTHDAYTONA DON said:


> Do you or anyone else know what this product is suppose to do? What would make me to give up my ROKU? Give up my REELGOOD software?


new peanut-shaped remote? androidtv?


----------



## BillyClyde

cwoody222 said:


> AppleTV+, no. It's not available on Android devices.
> 
> Disney+ is available on AndroidTV devices so we can ASSUME it'll be included but I do not believe TiVo has confirmed. It is not one of the logos used in their marketing.
> 
> *Tivo has also not confirmed which services will be integrated into their one search. Just because an app is available to launch On the device does not mean it'll have tight integration.*
> 
> The whole point of the device is to integrate services so we should hope most of the big ones are integrated but we really won't know until launch.
> 
> Of course, app integration was the whole promise of OnePass and we know how that worked out.


I'm thinking all you have to do is see what apps are deep linked on Caavo and then you'll have your answer here.


----------



## cwoody222

There’s a guy on the Facebook TiVo owners group that says he’s beta testing the Stream.

Maybe Zatz can go pry some info out of him for his blog?


----------



## jaselzer

It's in beta? LOL


----------



## Teavo

Seems much to late to be in beta mode, especially when it's hitting shelves VERY soon. lol


----------



## cwoody222

Teavo said:


> Seems much to late to be in beta mode, especially when it's hitting shelves VERY soon. lol


Beta tests could be going right thru launch. They may be testing software and/or features that won't be ready at launch.

It's not like a beta test would have to completely end before a product is shipped.


----------



## mattyro7878

oh, no. we must dump on the unseen unused product in every way we can, dont you know the rules?


----------



## Dan203

Teavo said:


> Seems much to late to be in beta mode, especially when it's hitting shelves VERY soon. lol


They typically keep the beta open until launch. Sometimes they even keep it going after launch to test the next software update they plan to release shortly after launch. The beta still going means nothing in terms of when it will launch. (I was in the original S3 beta for over a year. It launched after about 9 months of that)


----------



## SOUTHDAYTONA DON

jaselzer said:


> Either your joking or trolling.


----------



## jaselzer

This whole thread is devoted to exactly what the Stream 4K is about.


----------



## morac

Dan203 said:


> They typically keep the beta open until launch. Sometimes they even keep it going after launch to test the next software update they plan to release shortly after launch. The beta still going means nothing in terms of when it will launch. (I was in the original S3 beta for over a year. It launched after about 9 months of that)


In the past, hardware products have had predetermined launch dates, either because those were the original chosen date or they got pushed back too many times and needed to launch regardless of the software status. Frequently they are launched with known bugs, hence the continued beta testing.


----------



## jaselzer

What a shame


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mattyro7878

Today's the day. I feel it in my bones. I've been checking my passwords so I can log in to each provider and stream away!!!


----------



## jaselzer

mattyro7878 said:


> Today's the day. I feel it in my bones. I've been checking my passwords so I can log in to each provider and stream away!!!


I love your optimism! I just want to remind you that you will physically have to receive the unit before you can "stream away"(just a minor technical issue)


----------



## mattyro7878

Oh yeah, huh. Free overnite delivery, right??


----------



## jaselzer

mattyro7878 said:


> Oh yeah, huh. Free overnite delivery, right??


Of course, once you order which you can do "Very Soon" because it is "Almost Here", you will be able to ship it overnight to be received "Very Soon" and it will be "Almost Here".


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Bravely and boldly guessing late tonight/tomorrow, per the Tuesday rule.


----------



## JeffInDFW

"TiVo Stream 4k is coming *very* soon.
Like keep-your-eyes-on-our-Facebook-page soon."

One week later......

SO....they used two of their videos in one day a while back, then posted the above to their Facebook page, then nothing for the next week. Odd. I wonder if they thought it would launch last Wednesday and then held off at the last minute? They should have kept the "once a week" schedule with their videos and ran that #7 video last week, and the Facebook "coming *very* soon, like keep your eyes on our Facebook page soon" post should have been put up tomorrow with the Wednesday last day of April release. Well......assuming they release it then.


----------



## jaselzer

I agree, but I also feel it is a very big "IF" about Tivo launching the stream this month. Something simply does not feel right about the circumstances. My intuition says we will not be seeing this item anytime in the near future(and I am deeply disappointed, btw.).

They also ran it on Twitter: "Tivo Stream 4K is ALMOST here"(caps are Tivo's).

So, seriously, is there any other reasonable interpretation except that the smell is one of bull****?


----------



## BillyClyde

JeffInDFW said:


> "TiVo Stream 4k is coming *very* soon.
> Like keep-your-eyes-on-our-Facebook-page soon."
> 
> One week later......
> 
> SO....they used two of their videos in one day a while back, then posted the above to their Facebook page, then nothing for the next week. Odd. I wonder if they thought it would launch last Wednesday and then held off at the last minute? They should have kept the "once a week" schedule with their videos and ran that #7 video last week, and the Facebook "coming *very* soon, like keep your eyes on our Facebook page soon" post should have been put up tomorrow with the Wednesday last day of April release. Well......assuming they release it then.


Maybe they got confirmation of them shipping from overseas (China?) so they made the "Coming very soon" announcements, believing that would be the case. Then once they hit our shores, they unexpectedly got held up in distribution or something? I've heard companies say this has happened during this crisis.


----------



## jaselzer

It is a possibility, but here is the issue. You brought it up yourself: "I’ve heard companies say this has happened during this crisis.": For me, the issue is not that the Stream is delayed but the fact that Tivo(which still has 4 days to make good on the April promise)does not make a statement about it.


----------



## Seth141

jaselzer said:


> It is a possibility, but here is the issue. You brought it up yourself: "I've heard companies say this has happened during this crisis.": For me, the issue is not that the Stream is delayed but the fact that Tivo(which still has 4 days to make good on the April promise)does not make a statement about it.


Forget about a statement. That's not only it. They DID make a statement. They posted during the pandemic implying that the release was imminent.


----------



## jaselzer

Seth141 said:


> Forget about a statement. That's not only it. They DID make a statement. They posted during the pandemic implying that the release was imminent.


Exactly


----------



## BillyClyde

jaselzer said:


> It is a possibility, but here is the issue. You brought it up yourself: "I've heard companies say this has happened during this crisis.": For me, the issue is not that the Stream is delayed but the fact that Tivo(which still has 4 days to make good on the April promise)does not make a statement about it.


Maybe they are hopeful that they'll get the delays sorted out before the end of April, which is their only real statement to date, to which they'd then have met their promise. If they can't at some point, then they make a statement about it. Until then there's no reason to, since they haven't missed their promised release time as of yet.


----------



## wmcbrine

JeffInDFW said:


> ... with the Wednesday last day of April release.


Thursday.


----------



## shwru980r

I guess they thought everyone would be too hungover from the weekend to notice the release.


----------



## jaselzer

BillyClyde said:


> Maybe they are hopeful that they'll get the delays sorted out before the end of April, which is their only real statement to date, to which they'd then have met their promise. If they can't at some point, then they make a statement about it. Until then there's no reason to, since they haven't missed their promised release time as of yet.


There is no way that Tivo does not yet know if they are releasing the Stream this month or not. They would have to be literally beyond dysfunction not to know if they are releasing a material product within the next 3 days.


----------



## BillyClyde

jaselzer said:


> There is no way that Tivo does not yet know if they are releasing the Stream this month or not. They would have to be literally beyond dysfunction not to know if they are releasing a material product within the next 3 days.


Then give them the three days to do so!


----------



## jaselzer

Why would I not? I have not accused them of breaking their promise. I do feel that their "ALMOST here" and "very soon" are disingenuous, but that certainly does not mean they wont release the Stream. Though personally my opinion is that they will not release it in April.


----------



## WVZR1

Ya'll are pretty damn easy to 'entertain' 59 goin' on 60 and will likely see 70 by month's end. I'll bet some of ya'll sat on the curbs and hoped the covers 'blew off' of the new cars when they were delivered early fall in the 60's!

***I'd imagine 'most/many' have made determinations of it's value! It's somewhat difficult to imagine this much interest in WiFi only device OR maybe that is the 'interest'!


----------



## jaselzer

WVZR1 said:


> Ya'll are pretty damn easy to 'entertain' 59 goin' on 60 and will likely see 70 by month's end. I'll bet some of ya'll sat on the curbs and hoped the covers 'blew off' of the new cars when they were delivered early fall in the 60's!
> 
> ***I'd imagine 'most/many' have made determinations of it's value! It's somewhat difficult to imagine this much interest in WiFi only device OR maybe that is the 'interest'!


Incomprehensible


----------



## shwru980r

Has Tivo sent messages to their DVR customers about this device on their retail Tivos? I don't remember seeing one.


----------



## Mikeguy

shwru980r said:


> Has Tivo sent messages to their DVR customers about this device on their retail Tivos? I don't remember seeing one.


Nothing here recently as to this actually being available.


----------



## shwru980r

Mikeguy said:


> Nothing here recently as to this actually being available.


Seems like a huge marketing failure not to utilize the messaging system on their retail DVRs to advertise this new device.


----------



## blacknoi

As pessimistic as the past few pages of this thread (justifiably) has become, I'm still hopeful to get the product in my hands. ...whenever that is.


----------



## jaselzer

shwru980r said:


> Has Tivo sent messages to their DVR customers about this device on their retail Tivos? I don't remember seeing one.


Yes, I received one in the messages on my TiVo quite awhile ago.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jaselzer

blacknoi said:


> As pessimistic as the past few pages of this thread (justifiably) has become, I'm still hopeful to get the product in my hands. ...whenever that is.


But we all are hopeful that sometime this Streamer will be released. I am not sure what you mean by your post. The issue is not that we are not hopeful that sometime we can buy this item. It is the fact that Tivo stated it will be for sale in April and then backed that up a week ago with disingenuous teases that the Streamer was literally about to be released and then Tivo disappeared from the face of the earth, so to speak.


----------



## tommiet

jaselzer said:


> But we all are hopeful that sometime this Streamer will be released. I am not sure what you mean by your post. The issue is not that we are not hopeful that sometime we can buy this item. It is the fact that Tivo stated it will be for sale in April and then backed that up a week ago with disingenuous teases that the Streamer was literally about to be released and then Tivo disappeared from the face of the earth, so to speak.


Just like last years announcement of new hardware.... Not surprised. Just too many devices that have been in the market for some time. Tivo will fail.


----------



## The Bird

My first Tivo was a 14-hour series 1 PVR with $200 lifetime service. That's how long I've been a devotee. What a great company it was. The new company seems to be filled with false promises. You would think after their last failed promise that they would be very careful to put a reasonable expectation on this one, but here we go again, so sad.


----------



## jaselzer

blacknoi said:


> As pessimistic as the past few pages of this thread (justifiably) has become, I'm still hopeful to get the product in my hands. ...whenever that is.





The Bird said:


> My first Tivo was a 14-hour series 1 PVR with $200 lifetime service. That's how long I've been a devotee. What a great company it was. The new company seems to be filled with false promises. You would think after their last failed promise that they would be very careful to put a reasonable expectation on this one, but here we go again, so sad.


Though I feel the same way, to be fair, we need to give them through Thursday this week.


----------



## babsonnexus

So while the Help pages to the Stream 4K exist as links on TiVO's website, they generally all end in 404 nothing there. But this one does exist:

Activate Your Stream 4k

So, an activation code of some kind is needed? I'm assuming this is only live because of Beta users, not because anything is necessarily coming *very* soon.

BTW, I don't know how I missed this one, but on TiVO's blog What's New on TV | April 20-26 - TiVo Blog posted on April 20, 2020 it said specifically (with my emphasis added):



> And by the way,* TiVo Stream 4K is coming* in _*just days*_, so keep your eye out on our *Facebook Page* for some very exclusive news!


----------



## babsonnexus

And a couple of interesting things. I figured out that the activation code is 6 digits and it has not yelled at me directly for some wonderful codes like 123456 and 999999. However, every time it went to a link that resolved in a blank screen:

TiVo | Best OTA DVRs, Cable DVRs and Streaming

Removing each sub-area does not get you anything but 404 errors, no no dice there. However, I don't know if this was here before, but there is now an option on my TiVO Account page for "Change your TiVo+ PIN".










When I clicked that, I ended up with this error:












> This feature is for TiVo+ channels and is available for TiVo Stream 4K customers only. You do not have a TiVO Stream device on your account. To purchase a Stream 4K device, visit *URL*.


The "URL" links to a 404 error.

So what I learned today is that the Streak 4K will have to be linked to an existing or new TiVO account which requires you to put in activation code. After binding to your account, you'll be able to Change your PIN for TiVo+ to do... something? (Ordering PPV or add-on channels, maybe? Maybe order Sling through TiVo so TiVo gets a cut?)


----------



## Dan203

Something unexpected must have happened. Either a drop dead bug in the software or some sort of hardware delay. No way they post that "*very* / ALMOST" stuff last week and then delay for a week or more. Something must have got screwed up.


----------



## cwoody222

babsonnexus said:


> And a couple of interesting things. I figured out that the activation code is 6 digits and it has not yelled at me directly for some wonderful codes like 123456 and 999999. However, every time it went to a link that resolved in a blank screen:
> 
> TiVo | Best OTA DVRs, Cable DVRs and Streaming
> 
> Removing each sub-area does not get you anything but 404 errors, no no dice there. However, I don't know if this was here before, but there is now an option on my TiVO Account page for "Change your TiVo+ PIN".
> 
> View attachment 48507
> 
> 
> When I clicked that, I ended up with this error:
> 
> View attachment 48508
> 
> 
> The "URL" links to a 404 error.
> 
> So what I learned today is that the Streak 4K will have to be linked to an existing or new TiVO account which requires you to put in activation code. After binding to your account, you'll be able to Change your PIN for TiVo+ to do... something? (Ordering PPV or add-on channels, maybe? Maybe order Sling through TiVo so TiVo gets a cut?)


Good finds!


----------



## mattyro7878

Im sure these codes are meant to link with your various Bolts, Roamios and Premieres. You lnow, One passes, to do lists...things like that; and of course MY SHOWS. Wouldnt that be nice?


----------



## foghorn2

Dan203 said:


> Something unexpected must have happened. Either a drop dead bug in the software or some sort of hardware delay. No way they post that "*very* / ALMOST" stuff last week and then delay for a week or more. Something must have got screwed up.


Theres lots to screw up with the ChinaRoboics device, esp HDMI/CEC issues, then you have the Hulu stuff..
Its all software stuuf you figure the Google lords would have fixed by now. And up until recently the Prime app would not keep you logged in. Believe me, theres a lot of bugs and only experienced people should get this for now.


----------



## babsonnexus

TiVo Blog Posted April 28, 2020: What's New on TV | April 27-May 3 - TiVo Blog



> And by the way,* TiVo Stream 4K is coming* in just days, so keep your eye out on our *Facebook Page* for some very exclusive news!


Hmmmmm... that quote looks oddly familiar... Well, two days are still in the "just days", "April", and "*soon*" categories...


----------



## dadrepus

Look, because of the pandemic, they are all working from home, walking their dogs, looking for TP like everyone else. Give them a break.


----------



## humbb

dadrepus said:


> Look, because of the pandemic, they are all working from home, walking their dogs, looking for TP like everyone else. Give them a break.


*Kirkland Signature Moist Flushable Wipes, 632 Wipes*


----------



## jaselzer

dadrepus said:


> Look, because of the pandemic, they are all working from home, walking their dogs, looking for TP like everyone else. Give them a break.


I do not understand what you are advocating. Are you saying that the pandemic justifies inserting misleading language in to their blogs, twitter and Facebook account? You do not feel that TiVo is incapable of providing more definitive statements even if that statement makes it clear that the launch date is fluid, that it will not be released in April but that they are working to launch the Stream as soon as possible. I will not give them a break because they're intentionally obfuscating the reality.


----------



## babsonnexus

dadrepus said:


> Give them a break.


As @jaselzer says, I think we'd give them a break if they'd stop saying release was imminent!


----------



## Dan203

humbb said:


> *Kirkland Signature Moist Flushable Wipes, 632 Wipes*


https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/05/21/flushable-wipes-are-terrible-plumbing/


----------



## humbb

Dan203 said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/05/21/flushable-wipes-are-terrible-plumbing/


Ok, then:
*Cottonelle Ultra ComfortCare Soft Toilet Paper*


----------



## Spencerz

They also offer the Stream 4K interface to operators now ?

It's called TiVo Stream ? 
TiVo Stream


----------



## jaselzer

There is no “also”. We retail consumers do not have it. So there is no “also”.


----------



## Spencerz

...yet


----------



## jaselzer

Spencerz said:


> ...yet


You are correct.


----------



## davezatz

Spencerz said:


> They also offer the Stream 4K interface to operators now ?
> 
> It's called TiVo Stream ?
> TiVo Stream


That's a good indication it hasn't been killed. I assume there was a last minute, at least a one week delay given the 'very soon' language. We shall see.


----------



## jaselzer

davezatz said:


> That's a good indication it hasn't been killed. I assume there was a last minute, at least a one week delay given the 'very soon' language. We shall see.


I hope so and I hope you are correct. However, I just want to point out that the information linked by Spencerz is from January/February. It is not current as of now.


----------



## Spencerz

jaselzer said:


> I hope so and I hope you are correct. However, I just want to point out that the information linked by Spencerz is from January/February. It is not current as of now.


Looks like to me the page got indexed by Google only yesterday. Are you sure ?


----------



## jaselzer

These days I am not sure of anything


----------



## jaselzer

Except for one thing: TiVo is a s...head if the Stream is not launched by midnight tomorrow. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cwoody222

Cue the complaining...

TiVo Stream 4K to Arrive 'In the Next Few Weeks' | TV Technology


----------



## mattyro7878

OH LORD! Bring on the naysayers.


----------



## jaselzer

Nice find!!!

LoL, the TiVo moronic executives have gone from “April” to “almost here” to “very soon” to “just days” to “SHOULD(my caps) in the next few weeks”. See it in July, maybe.

You can tell me I was right. It is my birthday, so go for it.


----------



## Teavo

Not surprised. Fire their marketing team.


----------



## The Bird

Well at least it is an answer.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

lol. I don't think anybody would blame them for a delay considering the circumstances, but it is weak sauce to be silent and drag people along to the last minute. Their opacity has always been ridiculous.


----------



## babsonnexus

I just had to prove this was a recent article (tough when the article neglects to have dates in the text), but I found the virtual conference that was mentioned:

Next TV | NYC TV Week Spring 2020


----------



## jaselzer

I emailed this Matt Milne asking for some explanation as to why there seems to be such a disconnect between the statements recently made on Facebook, Twitter and the Tivo Blog, and his recent statement "should be in the next few weeks".

We shall see


----------



## aaronwt

cwoody222 said:


> Cue the complaining...
> 
> TiVo Stream 4K to Arrive 'In the Next Few Weeks' | TV Technology


That web page also had a link to an article about Amazon renewing their NFL streaming deal for Thursday night games.
Only now, Amazon will also get one regular season Saturday game that is exclusive to Amazon streaming.

And I guess by then we will be able to watch it on the TV stream 4K. I hope it's also broadcast in UHD and HDR.


----------



## Mikeguy

BigJimOutlaw said:


> I don't think anybody would blame them for a delay considering the circumstances . . . .


^ This.


----------



## jaselzer

What means this: TV Stream 4K? I have not seen it nor heard it nor watched it. It may just be a creation of an active imagination. Time will tell......or not.


----------



## Mikeguy

cwoody222 said:


> TiVo Stream 4K to Arrive 'In the Next Few Weeks' | TV Technology





> Speaking during a keynote session today at Future Media's Virtual Spring TV Week online conference, Milne said *TiVo product developers have been working at home amid the pandemic to get the Android TV-based OTT device ready to market*.
> 
> At CES in January, where TiVo introduced the $70 dongle and successfully created buzz for it, the company touted an April release date for the TiVo Stream 4K.
> 
> "It's a testament to our whole team that we've been able conduct the necessary product test and will have high quality product we can launch to market," Milne said.


Cut them some slack, it seems to me.


----------



## jaselzer

Mikeguy said:


> Cut them some slack, it seems to me.


There seems to be a mis-communication between us: The issue is not that they missed the April date. It is completely understandable under the circumstances that deadlines are not met. What is not understandable nor comprehensible nor acceptable is the fact that last week they put out statements that led everyone to believe that within a couple of days this Streamer would be released. That is specifically the issue. And by the way, the only issue.


----------



## mattyro7878

This would all be fine and understandable due to Covid-19. The constant "any day now" is just wrong. All those little videos should have included an added on disclaimer that "Tivo is like any other company in these trying times...blah blah". At least stop pushing the April launch.


----------



## foghorn2

aaronwt said:


> That web page also had a link to an article about Amazon renewing their NFL streaming deal for Thursday night games.
> Only now, Amazon will also get one regular season Saturday game that is exclusive to Amazon streaming.
> 
> And I guess by then we will be able to watch it on the TV stream 4K. I hope it's also broadcast in UHD and HDR.


Good luck, the Andriod TV Prime App is old and clunky. It wont even play commercials for IMDB titles, which is a good thing, but they purposefully stretch and degrade the PQ apparently in spite.


----------



## Dan203

jaselzer said:


> There seems to be a mis-communication between us: The issue is not that they missed the April date. It is completely understandable under the circumstances that deadlines are not met. What is not understandable nor comprehensible nor acceptable is the fact that last week they put out statements that led everyone to believe that within a couple of days this Streamer would be released. That is specifically the issue. And by the way, the only issue.


Yeah I fully expected a delay due to the pandemic, but then those tweets and Facebook posts went out and I got my hopes up.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

^^ Correct. Slack has been given. Probably nobody's angry at a May launch. The problem is they could have been transparent about it weeks ago but instead strung everybody along to the end of the month. The social media person(s) may have been thrown under the bus by not being told either.


----------



## samsauce29

BigJimOutlaw said:


> ^^ Correct. Slack has been given. Nobody's angry at a May launch. Just the stringing along by social media. They could have been transparent about it weeks ago but made the choice not to.


Agreed. I was all set to try it out as Roku has been locking up a bit for me here and there. With this, I may still do that, but not exactly at launch.


----------



## jaselzer

samsauce29 said:


> Agreed. I was all set to try it out as Roku has been locking up a bit for me here and there. With this, I may still do that, but not exactly at launch.


The problem is that we do not know what time frame we are actually looking at: Based on the link that Spencercz so diligently found, we are now on notice that there is no longer an official time frame. This fellow stated "should be in a few weeks"; that could be 2 weeks or 10 weeks or even that they could not do it under these circumstances. Sucks tbh


----------



## Mikeguy

jaselzer said:


> There seems to be a mis-communication between us: The issue is not that they missed the April date. It is completely understandable under the circumstances that deadlines are not met. What is not understandable nor comprehensible nor acceptable is the fact that last week they put out statements that led everyone to believe that within a couple of days this Streamer would be released. That is specifically the issue. And by the way, the only issue.


Maybe they thought, and still think, that it will be any day now. Impediments make it hard to predict.

Yep, perhaps they should have said, we were aiming at April but present circumstances have thrown extra challenges at us, we're trying to get this great new device to you as soon as possible--stay tuned. For me, though, that's pretty much understood with all of life at present, and it's really not a big deal. For what probably is a small number of people, though (and here), it seems to be a bigger ~issue.

What this also shows is, it's good to have a Margret/TiVo_Ted/TiVo liaison here, to answer emerging questions from the fan base.  And to keep the fandom flamed/not flamed (depending on which direction you take it, lol).


----------



## foghorn2

Mikeguy said:


> ..
> 
> What this also shows is, it's good to have a Margret/TiVo_Ted/TiVo liaison here, to answer emerging questions from the fan base.  And to keep the fandom flamed/not flamed (depending on which direction you take it, lol).


For all 15 more or less of us who really care?


----------



## jaselzer

16, I think you forgot to count me as one who really cares....and I do!! I am deeply disappointed by this turn of events.


----------



## Mikeguy

foghorn2 said:


> For all 15 more or less of us who really care?


Well, I was thinking a bit more generally.


----------



## mrizzo80

I wonder what is included in the “we are investing $100M/year in search and discovery” claim. 

Is that “new” money for the ongoing streaming wars? (doubt it) Is that salary and benefit costs for the entire company? Is that their non-hardware operating costs?


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

mrizzo80 said:


> I wonder what is included in the "we are investing $100M/year in search and discovery" claim.
> 
> Is that "new" money for the ongoing streaming wars? (doubt it) Is that salary and benefit costs for the entire company? Is that their non-hardware operating costs?


They've been reporting over $100m/year in "research and development" costs for many years. It's never matched their output.

They've also made some dubious purchases, like Digitalsmiths for $135 million for their recommendation engine. After 2+ years of Hydra it still thinks I care about kids shows and the Kardashians, and it's coming soon to Stream 4K.


----------



## JeffInDFW

People are mad because Tivo has told us all along "April". On April 20, they announce "TiVo Stream 4k is coming *very* soon. Like keep-your-eyes-on-our-Facebook-page soon." On April 28th, they finally say, "the next few weeks". That is chief revenue officer speak, IMO that means June to July. To still be so uncertain that he can only offer "next few weeks" means SOMETHING is still unknown on their end. If the product was completely finished and sellable product was on its way to Tivo, he would have been able to say "We have an on sale date of May 15th" which is 2 weeks instead of saying "a few weeks". I'll still order one when they finally release them, but I am not waiting any longer. I'm ordering 4 new Rokus right now. My family has been trapped at home mad because we can only watch Disney+ and YouTubeTV on our home theater because all our Roku are old and can't play those services. I've been telling them we are waiting for the new Tivo stream 4K. Yeah, they will be mad when new Rokus arrive and they realize they could have been watching those services all along instead of dad making them wait. LOL!


----------



## jaselzer

JeffInDFW said:


> People are mad because Tivo has told us all along "April". On April 20, they announce "TiVo Stream 4k is coming *very* soon. Like keep-your-eyes-on-our-Facebook-page soon." On April 28th, they finally say, "the next few weeks". That is chief revenue officer speak, IMO that means June to July. To still be so uncertain that he can only offer "next few weeks" means SOMETHING is still unknown on their end. If the product was completely finished and sellable product was on its way to Tivo, he would have been able to say "We have an on sale date of May 15th" which is 2 weeks instead of saying "a few weeks". I'll still order one when they finally release them, but I am not waiting any longer. I'm ordering 4 new Rokus right now. My family has been trapped at home mad because we can only watch Disney+ and YouTubeTV on our home theater because all our Roku are old and can't play those services. I've been telling them we are waiting for the new Tivo stream 4K. Yeah, they will be mad when new Rokus arrive and they realize they could have been watching those services all along instead of dad making them wait. LOL!


Sorry........but it is always the dad's fault. You are right about your interpretation. They are no where near about to launch this product. It would be interesting to watch news agency really take them to task for their disingenuous statements.

In any event, I came here and posted ALOT when I thought that the Stream 4K would be coming real soon. I am absolutely certain we are looking at the late June/mid July time frame. So I am backing off of my obsessive compulsive behavior when it comes to this item. When and if it comes, great. If not, I have 3 Rokus and 1 Apple TV that all work beautifully.


----------



## Teavo

Probably lucky if we see it by Christmas.


----------



## BillyClyde

If the delay was to install your local TiVo DVR integration into the Stream 4K, then I’m all for waiting “a few weeks”, just in time for the country to open and nobody to ever want to sit on their couch for hours on end again!


----------



## cwoody222

JeffInDFW said:


> People are mad because Tivo has told us all along "April".


But the thing is they haven't been saying that "all along". They put "April" in a press kit after CES in January (which then made its way to online news stories) and their CEO made comments in passing at the same time.

In the 12 weeks (approx) since they have never said "April" again. What they HAVE said - a Facebook post here, and a tweet there - has been vague. They didn't even start to put out teaser videos until early March.

We made it worse here (which is not representative of the world at large) because we became convinced it was gonna launch on a Tuesday, then we became convinced their online store was down (it wasn't), then we started parsing what the definition of "very soon" meant.

Taken at face value, without the speculation and supposition here in this thread, their public comments hardly amount to anything.

At the end of the day, assuming they launch in the next "few" weeks, no one outside this forum would even shrug their shoulders at them saying "*very* soon" and not delivering 4 (gasp!) weeks later.


----------



## Noelmel

Maybe their keep your eyes peeled to our fb very soon was a hint at a pre order or official release date announcement? I just hope we get some update tomorrow


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Narkul

BillyClyde said:


> If the delay was to install your local TiVo DVR integration into the Stream 4K, then I'm all for waiting "a few weeks", just in time for the country to open and nobody to ever want to sit on their couch for hours on end again!


I will not allow a return to outdoor life interfere in any way with my couch sitting.


----------



## schatham

Not only did they miss out on everyone sitting home, but also at a time when their was $1200 free being sent to everyone. 

I'm losing interest at this point myself.


----------



## Dan203

schatham said:


> I'm losing interest at this point myself.


I'm wavering a bit as well. Especially now that I'm reading about potential problems with Hulu and Prime, and that there is no Android TV version of AppleTV+. I really like the remote (the other streamer remotes all suck!) but if the device itself has issues with the services I use then what's the point?


----------



## foghorn2

Dan203 said:


> I'm wavering a bit as well. Especially now that I'm reading about potential problems with Hulu and Prime, and that there is no Android TV version of AppleTV+. I really like the remote (the other streamer remotes all suck!) but if the device itself has issues with the services I use then what's the point?


Right, just because an app is on Google Play, it does not mean its a new updated app or compatible (whitelisted) with this device. Hence issues with Hulu and Prime. AppleTv is on FTV, an andriod app, but that does not mean they allow it on these devices. The providers are calling the shots. They are making it impossible for a truly unifying ultimate experience. They are going to favor their own devices, something Tivo cant even do with their own DVR for F'ks sake.


----------



## Dan203

AppleTV has every app I want but the remote is HORRIBLE! I can't stand the stupid touch thing! Whoever thought that up should be shot. And it's also just lacking some crucial buttons. I was really looking forward to this because of the remote. I assumed that Android TV would have just as much support as Android phones, but it appears that's not the case.


----------



## Jim1348

Dan203 said:


> AppleTV has every app I want but the remote is HORRIBLE! I can't stand the stupid touch thing! Whoever thought that up should be shot. And it's also just lacking some crucial buttons. I was really looking forward to this because of the remote. I assumed that Android TV would have just as much support as Android phones, but it appears that's not the case.


Well, how ironic that you mention that. When I quit Dish Network several years ago, I went with Sony PS Vue for a time, then Direct TV Now/AT&T TV Now for a couple of years and now a month ago to Sling TV. Somewhere along the line, possibly/probably my Sony PS Vue run, I received a "free" Apple TV for subscribing for (probably) three months. It has received very little use since I have had other devices. A week or so ago, while setting up devices for Sling TV, I offered the Apple TV for the area that my wife is most often. Her response was also pretty much that the remote control is horrible!


----------



## BillyClyde

Dan203 said:


> I'm wavering a bit as well. Especially now that I'm reading about potential problems with Hulu and Prime, and that there is no Android TV version of AppleTV+. I really like the remote (the other streamer remotes all suck!) but if the device itself has issues with the services I use then what's the point?





Dan203 said:


> AppleTV has every app I want but the remote is HORRIBLE! I can't stand the stupid touch thing! Whoever thought that up should be shot. And it's also just lacking some crucial buttons. I was really looking forward to this because of the remote. I assumed that Android TV would have just as much support as Android phones, but it appears that's not the case.





Jim1348 said:


> Well, how ironic that you mention that. When I quit Dish Network several years ago, I went with Sony PS Vue for a time, then Direct TV Now/AT&T TV Now for a couple of years and now a month ago to Sling TV. Somewhere along the line, possibly/probably my Sony PS Vue run, I received a "free" Apple TV for subscribing for (probably) three months. It has received very little use since I have had other devices. A week or so ago, while setting up devices for Sling TV, I offered the Apple TV for the area that my wife is most often. Her response was also pretty much that the remote control is horrible!


Well here's my thought on it and the remotes for these devices. My plan is to buy the Stream 4K at the $50 intro price. If it doesn't meet my needs and expectations, I am going to use the Stream 4K's remote and set it up to work my AppleTV 4K, which you can make work with any IR remote.

So yeah, either way I get something for my $50 outlay. The remote probably isn't worth $50, but at least it's not a total loss either and I also get the chance to play with the Stream 4K to see what it can do. Plus if by chance they improve it with FW later on, it could then be worth putting back into service, especially if they add TiVo DVR integration!


----------



## shwru980r

It seems like Tivo would send a message to their DVRs notifying users of the the release. Someone said there was a message about this device a while back that I vaguely remember now.


----------



## trip1eX

Dan203 said:


> AppleTV has every app I want but the remote is HORRIBLE! I can't stand the stupid touch thing! Whoever thought that up should be shot. And it's also just lacking some crucial buttons. I was really looking forward to this because of the remote. I assumed that Android TV would have just as much support as Android phones, but it appears that's not the case.


I think the remote is good and gives me every function I need. But you can use 3rd party remotes with the Appletv.

btw, you can sell the atv remote on ebay. It looks like they have been selling for between $30-$40.


----------



## mdavej

BillyClyde said:


> Well here's my thought on it and the remotes for these devices. My plan is to buy the Stream 4K at the $50 intro price. If it doesn't meet my needs and expectations, I am going to use the Stream 4K's remote and set it up to work my AppleTV 4K, which you can make work with any IR remote.


What if the remote is bluetooth?


----------



## Hamstring

shwru980r said:


> It seems like Tivo would send a message to their DVRs notifying users of the the release. Someone said there was a message about this device a while back that I vaguely remember now.


I got a pre roll ad last week. Lol.


----------



## SullyND

Dan203 said:


> AppleTV has every app I want but the remote is HORRIBLE!


I use the remote on my phone. You can program an AppleTV to use another remote. Do you have a peanut with a 1/2 switch? I used to have one of mine programmed to control my 1G AppleTV when switched to 2. Alternatively you could set an IR peanut to a different remote address and dedicate it to AppleTV.



> *Teach an infrared remote to control Apple TV*
> 
> Open Settings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> on Apple TV.
> 
> Go to Remotes and Devices > Learn Remote, then follow the onscreen instructions.


----------



## DeltaOne

Dan203 said:


> AppleTV has every app I want but the remote is HORRIBLE!


As the OP mentioned, you can use other remotes. I configured another remote for the Apple TV but it left some things to be desired too, so I went back to the Apple TV remote.

I did discover a sensitivity setting for the Apple TV remote in Settings. Changing it to "slow" helped a little.


----------



## Dan203

I tried an IR remote. It doesn’t work well for my setup. The TV is mounted on the wall and the Apple TV is mounted on the wall behind it. So the only way to get IR back there is if I aim it just right to bounce it off the wall. It's really unreliable and frustrating to try and use. 

My main issue with the regular remote is the touch thing. It's not all that great for navigation and worse every time I pick up the remote I touch it and cause the video to scrub. Also it lacks dedicated forward/back buttons and trying to move just a little bit, like to repeat a section you didn’t quite hear, is nearly impossible.


----------



## BillyClyde

mdavej said:


> What if the remote is bluetooth?


I'm sure it will have IR capability as well, so it can control your TV's volume, input, etc.


----------



## Triride44

Another report of the "Few Weeks" delay on Cord Cutters News.

TiVo Says its Stream 4K is Still Coming 'In the Next Few Weeks' - Cord Cutters News

I still plan to get one whenever its available (Maybe on Amazon Prime Day) or the pre-Christmas sales.


----------



## babsonnexus

Guys, just to be clear, there is a bigger issue than even potential customer disappointment. It is one thing for us to expect a date and it not to happen, but TiVo's executive officers--including their CEO--made a material statement about a launch window and said they were betting the future of the company on it (at least the Products and Services business, which is half the company). There is already an investors' lawsuit for the company not acting in good faith and withholding critical material from investors (IE, the owners):

SHAREHOLDER ALERT: WeissLaw LLP Reminds TIVO, MINI, MEET, and DLPH Shareholders About Its Ongoing Investigations

Executive level people putting out statements like this had an impact on the stock and valuation of the company in relation to the merger with Xperi. They can delay, that is fine, but delaying has now changed a material component of the declared company's future. In other words, if they say this product is what they are betting their financial future on, withholding information on the launch window is a FTC-level violation. And if you think these have to be in official press releases to be considered, just looked what happened when Elon Musk put out a flippant Tweet about Tesla going private. Messaging of any kind is valid.

On top of this, TiVo is announcing Q1 earnings on May 6, 2020:

TiVo (TIVO) Reports Next Week: Wall Street Expects Earnings Growth

While the device would have no impact on Q1 sales, the costs of developing and some manufacturing would be in Q1, plus all their projections for the remainder of the year. While forward-looking statements are not GAAP or IFRS, they do constitute material statements for investors at large. They are going to be hammered in Q&A, especially if they don't say anything themselves without being prompted, and any movement of the stock after that will just add more fire to that lawsuit. It is not an unlikely outcome that activist investors manage to take over a significant part of the board of directors and sell off chunks of the company for parts to get their money back.

I am not kidding here when I say being secretive and not even just saying, "Sorry, but due to Covid-19 and other unforeseen circumstances we will not be able to launch the TiVo Stream 4K in April as previously announced. Please stay tuned for an updated launch date!" could lead the final destruction of what is left of the TiVo products business. This is not just hyperbole; I have lived through this exact same type of situation at a former company to these results.


----------



## cwoody222

Can anyone find an article quoting the CEO saying “April”? I can’t.

I can find plenty of articles from January where the CEO made other disparaging comments about their DVR business and his pivot to streaming.

And those same articles mention the “April” date, presumably taken from the press kit distributed on/after CES.

But I can’t locate an article with the words “April” coming out of the CEO’s mouth.

I’s seriously asking if anyone can - have we all retcon’ed what was actually said?


----------



## babsonnexus

cwoody222 said:


> Can anyone find an article quoting the CEO saying "April"? I can't.


Press release from TiVo (January 7, 2020) directly that says:

TiVo Unveils TiVo Stream 4K
TiVo Unveils TiVo Stream 4K | Tivo



> TiVo Stream 4K will be available to customers beginning April 2020 with initial launch pricing of $49.99 (MSRP of $69.99), and will be available via TiVo.com and other popular retail sales channels.


So, not out of the CEO's mouth, but the equivalent.

I'm trying to find pictures from the actual booth at CES 2020, but it doesn't look like anyone has posted all of their photos that show this date as visible there. All the reporters got the same press kit that said the same; that's why the articles give that date. So did he say it out loud? Maybe. In a recording? Perhaps. But did he hand someone a piece of paper that said the above? Absolutely!


----------



## slowbiscuit

..and of course that date was given before the current world event.


----------



## cherry ghost

Dan203 said:


> I tried an IR remote. It doesn't work well for my setup. The TV is mounted on the wall and the Apple TV is mounted on the wall behind it. So the only way to get IR back there is if I aim it just right to bounce it off the wall. It's really unreliable and frustrating to try and use.


This is a situation where you'd want a Harmony with a hub.


----------



## cwoody222

I think we’re all guilty of revisionist history here, all “remembering” that the CEO said it in an interview.

I’m not claiming the press kit isn’t official or anything but is interesting if we’re mad at him for saying something he didn’t.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

Dan203 said:


> I tried an IR remote. It doesn't work well for my setup. The TV is mounted on the wall and the Apple TV is mounted on the wall behind it. So the only way to get IR back there is if I aim it just right to bounce it off the wall. It's really unreliable and frustrating to try and use.
> 
> My main issue with the regular remote is the touch thing. It's not all that great for navigation and worse every time I pick up the remote I touch it and cause the video to scrub. Also it lacks dedicated forward/back buttons and trying to move just a little bit, like to repeat a section you didn't quite hear, is nearly impossible.





cherry ghost said:


> This is a situation where you'd want a Harmony with a hub.


A cheap little IR extender would probably work too.


----------



## mdavej

BillyClyde said:


> I'm sure it will have IR capability as well, so it can control your TV's volume, input, etc.


Doubtful it will shoot IR for anything but TV. Even though Tivo and DirecTV RF remotes are mode switchable, streaming remotes are not. Just ask anybody who's tried to learn IR from those Roku and Fire remotes with IR TV control. It's impossible. For your sake, I hope I'm wrong. We shall see.

In any case, you can get a nice universal peanut shaped remote right now. I've had several of these for years. They're even PC programmable similar to Harmony. And they're really cheap. The JP1 community wrote some software for this model to expand it to unlimited devices and macros.
https://www.amazon.com/OARUSB04G-ONE-4-Device-Universal-Remote/dp/B00THCZ9RQ

This remote is insanely complicated out of the box, so the low ratings are totally justified. That's why we wrote JP1 software for it to really make it sing and dance. See the reviews that mention JP1 and this excellent youtube video to get an idea of what it's really capable of:
Remote for Technically Inclined People


----------



## DeltaOne

Dan203 said:


> My main issue with the regular remote is the touch thing. It's not all that great for navigation and worse every time I pick up the remote I touch it and cause the video to scrub. Also it lacks dedicated forward/back buttons and trying to move just a little bit, like to repeat a section you didn't quite hear, is nearly impossible.


Agreed. I keep thinking a third party will make a great remote for the Apple TV...but to my knowledge that hasn't happened yet.


----------



## ellinj

Cavo we have a thread here on that. Works great and controls the Apple TV via bluetooth.


----------



## Mikeguy

babsonnexus said:


> Guys, just to be clear, there is a bigger issue than even potential customer disappointment. It is one thing for us to expect a date and it not to happen, but TiVo's executive officers--including their CEO--made a material statement about a launch window and said they were betting the future of the company on it (at least the Products and Services business, which is half the company). There is already an investors' lawsuit for the company not acting in good faith and withholding critical material from investors (IE, the owners):
> 
> SHAREHOLDER ALERT: WeissLaw LLP Reminds TIVO, MINI, MEET, and DLPH Shareholders About Its Ongoing Investigations
> 
> Executive level people putting out statements like this had an impact on the stock and valuation of the company in relation to the merger with Xperi. They can delay, that is fine, but delaying has now changed a material component of the declared company's future. In other words, if they say this product is what they are betting their financial future on, withholding information on the launch window is a FTC-level violation. And if you think these have to be in official press releases to be considered, just looked what happened when Elon Musk put out a flippant Tweet about Tesla going private. Messaging of any kind is valid.
> 
> On top of this, TiVo is announcing Q1 earnings on May 6, 2020:
> 
> TiVo (TIVO) Reports Next Week: Wall Street Expects Earnings Growth
> 
> While the device would have no impact on Q1 sales, the costs of developing and some manufacturing would be in Q1, plus all their projections for the remainder of the year. While forward-looking statements are not GAAP or IFRS, they do constitute material statements for investors at large. They are going to be hammered in Q&A, especially if they don't say anything themselves without being prompted, and any movement of the stock after that will just add more fire to that lawsuit. It is not an unlikely outcome that activist investors manage to take over a significant part of the board of directors and sell off chunks of the company for parts to get their money back.
> 
> I am not kidding here when I say being secretive and not even just saying, "Sorry, but due to Covid-19 and other unforeseen circumstances we will not be able to launch the TiVo Stream 4K in April as previously announced. Please stay tuned for an updated launch date!" could lead the final destruction of what is left of the TiVo products business. This is not just hyperbole; I have lived through this exact same type of situation at a former company to these results.


Sorry, but, one word: pandemic.


----------



## trip1eX

Dan203 said:


> My main issue with the regular remote is the touch thing. It's not all that great for navigation and worse every time I pick up the remote I touch it and cause the video to scrub. Also it lacks dedicated forward/back buttons and trying to move just a little bit, like to repeat a section you didn't quite hear, is nearly impossible.


The menu button is the back button for menu navigation.

A left edge click is the usual way to go back 10 seconds in apps. On YTTV, you can also tap the left edge of the trackpad to go back 10 seconds and keep the thumbnail image open. Very handy for skipping commercials. Right edge click sends you forward 10 seconds. You can also use the voice buttton to skip forward/back any amount of time you want.

the touchpad is good for scrubbing longer amounts of time and for navigation of menus. You can adjust the sensitivity to your liking. But I can see how one might need to get used to it. I never really had an issue picking it up. I did get a feeling that Apple did something to make what you describe not happen. They might have made the remote sleep when you aren't using It for a longer period of time. But I probably am just more used to it.


----------



## babsonnexus

Mikeguy said:


> Sorry, but, one word: pandemic.


Hahahahahaha, you think lawsuits and investors trying to strip companies of resources to line their own pockets won't happen because of a worldwide pandemic? My friend, it is already happening with bunches of companies out there--so many it's not even worth listing. But don't take my word for it; feel free to Google or just go to the front page of any finance/market website.

I would like to point out that the lawsuit I linked to is just from a couple of days ago. It is happening to TiVo right now! The Xperi merger is going on right now! Business is still going on, and thus so are the pushbacks and payouts.

Like everyone has said, they'd be fine if they just made an official announcement of any kind saying the prior date will be missed and they'll have an announcement in the future. Instead, they are opening themselves up to all the fallout that is ongoing and is yet to come.


----------



## Mikeguy

babsonnexus said:


> Hahahahahaha, you think lawsuits and investors trying to strip companies of resources to line their own pockets won't happen because of a worldwide pandemic? My friend, it is already happening with bunches of companies out there--so many it's not even worth listing. But don't take my word for it; feel free to Google or just go to the front page of any finance/market website.
> 
> I would like to point out that the lawsuit I linked to is just from a couple of days ago. It is happening to TiVo right now! The Xperi merger is going on right now! Business is still going on, and thus so are the pushbacks and payouts.
> 
> Like everyone has said, they'd be fine if they just made an official announcement of any kind saying the prior date will be missed and they'll have an announcement in the future. Instead, they are opening themselves up to all the fallout that is ongoing and is yet to come.


What I'm saying is, the pandemic is going to excuse a multitude of estimates, including from 3 months ago before anyone had even considered the possibility, as well as those more recent ones expressed in such nebulous terms as "coming soon" and "almost here." Even in the best of times, my guess is that a missed estimate for a product intro. is not going to form a valid basis for a lawsuit claim, absent severe circumstances.

Lawsuits are a near-dime a dozen--pay a filing fee and you have one. And certain lawyer groups love filing them, to make attorneys' fees.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

babsonnexus said:


> Hahahahahaha, you think lawsuits and investors trying to strip companies of resources to line their own pockets won't happen because of a worldwide pandemic? My friend, it is already happening with bunches of companies out there--so many it's not even worth listing. But don't take my word for it; feel free to Google or just go to the front page of any finance/market website.
> 
> I would like to point out that the lawsuit I linked to is just from a couple of days ago. It is happening to TiVo right now! The Xperi merger is going on right now! Business is still going on, and thus so are the pushbacks and payouts.
> 
> Like everyone has said, they'd be fine if they just made an official announcement of any kind saying the prior date will be missed and they'll have an announcement in the future. Instead, they are opening themselves up to all the fallout that is ongoing and is yet to come.


Don't be so melodramatic. It's not even a lawsuit. They issue "shareholder alerts" about merger "investigations" every other day that are copy-paste boilerplate. Ambulance chaser fishing for victims.



Mikeguy said:


> Lawsuits are a near-dime a dozen--pay a filing fee and you have one. And certain lawyer groups love filing them, to make attorneys' fees.


This.


----------



## Dan203

cherry ghost said:


> This is a situation where you'd want a Harmony with a hub.


I ordered one yesterday.


----------



## shwru980r

Hamstring said:


> I got a pre roll ad last week. Lol.


I mean a true message under messaging and settings.


----------



## Dan203

DeltaOne said:


> Agreed. I keep thinking a third party will make a great remote for the Apple TV...but to my knowledge that hasn't happened yet.


I bought one of those Swedish ones everyone is talking about being developed in conjunction with Apple. I thought because it was developed with Apple it would be BT/RF like the original remote. But it's not, it's IR. Which as I explained above doesn't work for me. So I paid WAY too much for a remote on eBay thinking it would solve my issue, and it doesn't even work. Argh.


----------



## jaselzer

I have a Harmony remote with a Hub and it works perfectly with Apple TV.


----------



## Dan203

trip1eX said:


> The menu button is the back button for menu navigation.
> 
> A left edge click is the usual way to go back 10 seconds in apps. On YTTV, you can also tap the left edge of the trackpad to go back 10 seconds and keep the thumbnail image open. Very handy for skipping commercials. Right edge click sends you forward 10 seconds. You can also use the voice buttton to skip forward/back any amount of time you want.
> 
> the touchpad is good for scrubbing longer amounts of time and for navigation of menus. You can adjust the sensitivity to your liking. But I can see how one might need to get used to it. I never really had an issue picking it up. I did get a feeling that Apple did something to make what you describe not happen. They might have made the remote sleep when you aren't using It for a longer period of time. But I probably am just more used to it.


I didn't know "edge clicks" were a thing. I mainly use the Apple TV for YouTube (regular, not YTTV), Netflix, HBOGo and Vudu. (Also occasionally ATV+, Hulu, Disney+, Prime, DC, CuriosityStream, etc... I literally have them all ) I'll have to test it out and see if that works in all my apps.


----------



## davezatz

slowbiscuit said:


> ..and of course that date was given before the current world event.


I could cut them some slack BUT they said very soon, days away during current world event. So something changed.


----------



## Dan203

trip1eX said:


> The menu button is the back button for menu navigation.
> 
> A left edge click is the usual way to go back 10 seconds in apps. On YTTV, you can also tap the left edge of the trackpad to go back 10 seconds and keep the thumbnail image open. Very handy for skipping commercials. Right edge click sends you forward 10 seconds. You can also use the voice buttton to skip forward/back any amount of time you want.
> 
> the touchpad is good for scrubbing longer amounts of time and for navigation of menus. You can adjust the sensitivity to your liking. But I can see how one might need to get used to it. I never really had an issue picking it up. I did get a feeling that Apple did something to make what you describe not happen. They might have made the remote sleep when you aren't using It for a longer period of time. But I probably am just more used to it.


Ok edge clicking does work in most apps so this is very helpful. I still hate the remote, but slightly less now.


----------



## jaselzer

davezatz said:


> I could cut them some slack BUT they said very soon, days away during current world event. So something changed.


I am with Zatz.


----------



## trip1eX

I completely cut them all slack. It always felt like a bit of a soft launch anyway with there never being a hard release date. The early adopter discount also gave off that impression. And now the pandemic.

The problem I have is I can't figure out why people care so much about the exact release date. They took over 5 years to make a streaming box as it is. What's another week or two or another month?


----------



## Dan203

Come on guys! You still have a few hours left in April to launch this thing.


----------



## shwru980r

babsonnexus said:


> Guys, just to be clear, there is a bigger issue than even potential customer disappointment. It is one thing for us to expect a date and it not to happen, but TiVo's executive officers--including their CEO--made a material statement about a launch window and said they were betting the future of the company on it (at least the Products and Services business, which is half the company). There is already an investors' lawsuit for the company not acting in good faith and withholding critical material from investors (IE, the owners):
> 
> SHAREHOLDER ALERT: WeissLaw LLP Reminds TIVO, MINI, MEET, and DLPH Shareholders About Its Ongoing Investigations
> 
> Executive level people putting out statements like this had an impact on the stock and valuation of the company in relation to the merger with Xperi. They can delay, that is fine, but delaying has now changed a material component of the declared company's future. In other words, if they say this product is what they are betting their financial future on, withholding information on the launch window is a FTC-level violation. And if you think these have to be in official press releases to be considered, just looked what happened when Elon Musk put out a flippant Tweet about Tesla going private. Messaging of any kind is valid.
> 
> On top of this, TiVo is announcing Q1 earnings on May 6, 2020:
> 
> TiVo (TIVO) Reports Next Week: Wall Street Expects Earnings Growth
> 
> While the device would have no impact on Q1 sales, the costs of developing and some manufacturing would be in Q1, plus all their projections for the remainder of the year. While forward-looking statements are not GAAP or IFRS, they do constitute material statements for investors at large. They are going to be hammered in Q&A, especially if they don't say anything themselves without being prompted, and any movement of the stock after that will just add more fire to that lawsuit. It is not an unlikely outcome that activist investors manage to take over a significant part of the board of directors and sell off chunks of the company for parts to get their money back.
> 
> I am not kidding here when I say being secretive and not even just saying, "Sorry, but due to Covid-19 and other unforeseen circumstances we will not be able to launch the TiVo Stream 4K in April as previously announced. Please stay tuned for an updated launch date!" could lead the final destruction of what is left of the TiVo products business. This is not just hyperbole; I have lived through this exact same type of situation at a former company to these results.


Hamstring reported he got a pre roll ad last week. Not sure what the specifics of that ad was.



Hamstring said:


> I got a pre roll ad last week. Lol.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Dan203 said:


> I'm wavering a bit as well. Especially now that I'm reading about potential problems with Hulu and Prime, and that there is no Android TV version of AppleTV+.


Eww, Hulu and Prime apps both have 1.5 star ratings. If anybody depends on either of those apps, I'd check out their Android TV reviews.

I use Prime too much to wanna put up with that. Will wait for Stream reviews.

Hulu
Prime


----------



## Dan203

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Eww, Hulu and Prime apps both have 1.5 star ratings. If anybody depends on either of those apps, I'd check out their Android TV reviews.
> 
> I use Prime too much to wanna put up with that.
> 
> Hulu
> Prime


Seems like a lot of the 1 stars are people complaining about incompatibility with Mi Box, which I understand is one of the first Android TV devices to ever get released and is still running a pretty old version of the OS.

I'm hoping that TiVo might be able to bring some legitimacy to Android TV. Right now the only devices you can get are the NVidia Shield, which is expensive and gaming focused, and some oddball Chinese products like the Air TV and Mi Box. TiVo will be the first company that's actually "in the business" to produce an Android TV devices for mass consumption. Maybe they can push the whole platform in the right direction. They do have an existing relationship with a lot of these streaming providers, and I think NBC still owns a big stake in the company even after the Rovi buyout. Maybe they could make the first good Android TV device and make it worthwhile for these streaming companies to put more care into their apps for the platform.

Tall order for the TiVo of today, but it's possible.


----------



## tommiet

Tivo is too busy trying to find others to take to court...... No time for new hardware.


----------



## Dan203

I've pretty much decided I'm going to buy one no matter what. It's only $50. I've spent more than that on a sh*tty game I only ever played for 10 minutes. If it sucks then I'll keep it around in hopes that one day it'll improve. (or maybe I can at least use the remote for AppleTV or FireTV instead)


----------



## BillyClyde

mdavej said:


> Doubtful it will shoot IR for anything but TV. Even though Tivo and DirecTV RF remotes are mode switchable, streaming remotes are not. Just ask anybody who's tried to learn IR from those Roku and Fire remotes with IR TV control. It's impossible. *For your sake, I hope I'm wrong. We shall see.*
> 
> In any case, you can get a nice universal peanut shaped remote right now. I've had several of these for years. They're even PC programmable similar to Harmony. And they're really cheap. The JP1 community wrote some software for this model to expand it to unlimited devices and macros.
> https://www.amazon.com/OARUSB04G-ONE-4-Device-Universal-Remote/dp/B00THCZ9RQ
> 
> This remote is insanely complicated out of the box, so the low ratings are totally justified. That's why we wrote JP1 software for it to really make it sing and dance. See the reviews that mention JP1 and this excellent youtube video to get an idea of what it's really capable of:
> Remote for Technically Inclined People


I have Harmony remotes at all TVs, so for my sake, it's all moot anyway.

Thanks for the info on that peanut remote, but I'll pass on the complicated setup, especially since I have the Harmonies which are way too easy to configure.

As Dan says below, I'm still getting one either way since the cost is so relatively cheap.



Dan203 said:


> I've pretty much decided I'm going to buy one no matter what. It's only $50. I've spent more than that on a sh*tty game I only ever played for 10 minutes. *If it sucks then I'll keep it around in hopes that one day it'll improve. (or maybe I can at least use the remote for AppleTV or FireTV instead)*


Yeah, that's what I said!


----------



## Charles R

Dan203 said:


> TiVo will be the first company that's actually "in the business" to produce an Android TV devices for mass consumption.


That occurred many, many (10) years ago... such as the Logitech Revue or should we say Google TV.


----------



## morac

Dan203 said:


> My main issue with the regular remote is the touch thing. It's not all that great for navigation and worse every time I pick up the remote I touch it and cause the video to scrub. Also it lacks dedicated forward/back buttons and trying to move just a little bit, like to repeat a section you didn't quite hear, is nearly impossible.


Apple changed it so you can't scrub a video unless you pause it so that shouldn't be happening.

To repeat the last ten 10 seconds, touch but don't press on the left side of the touch pad until a back arrow with a 10 shows up and then press. Alternately you can ask Siri to jump back x seconds or ask "what did he say".


----------



## Dan203

morac said:


> Apple changed it so you can't scrub a video unless you pause it so that shouldn't be happening.
> 
> To repeat the last ten 10 seconds, touch but don't press on the left side of the touch pad until a back arrow with a 10 shows up and then press. Alternately you can ask Siri to jump back x seconds or ask "what did he say".


Yeah I didn't realize about the edge thing until it was mentioned up thread. It's a bit touchy, but does work. I'd still prefer dedicated skip forward/back buttons.


----------



## Mikeguy

davezatz said:


> I could cut them some slack BUT they said very soon, days away during current world event. So something changed.


Pandemics can make the best-laid plans difficult.


----------



## ebockelman

Dan203 said:


> Maybe they could make the first good Android TV device and make it worthwhile for these streaming companies to put more care into their apps for the platform


That's already been done by Nvidia. The SHIELD is probably the best streaming device you can buy today.

Both Prime and Hulu work great on it.


----------



## Dan203

ebockelman said:


> That's already been done by Nvidia. The SHIELD is probably the best streaming device you can buy today.
> 
> Both Prime and Hulu work great on it.


It's also $150-200, quite large, has a really weird remote, and IMHO a not so great UI.

Over the years TiVo has (mostly) done two things well.... their UI and their remote. If they can bring those things to this device I think it will be better for most people than an Nvidia Shield. And the price point is certainly more approachable.


----------



## ebockelman

Dan203 said:


> It's also $150-200, quite large, has a really weird remote, and IMHO a not so great UI.
> 
> Over the years TiVo has (mostly) done two things well.... their UI and their remote. If they can bring those things to this device I think it will be better for most people than an Nvidia Shield. And the price point is certainly more approachable.


Yeah, the remote is weird, although not Apple TV level weird. The UI is different, but you pick it up very quickly. I find it easier than the current crop of streamers.

Definitely agree on the Tivo points. The Stream 4k price point is great, and if the nail the UI it could be a big win. I'm in to pick one up if they'll take my money.


----------



## Acerxz

The new remote is great. The shield is an excellent device.


----------



## Dan203

Acerxz said:


> The new remote is great. The shield is an excellent device.


The triangular wand thing?

Admittedly I've never used it, but it looks very strange to me.


----------



## foghorn2

Shied and ATV too expensive. Just want the Tivo Experience with Sling/Streaming with Kodi (local files) in one device.
I already wasted lots of money on Tivo DVR's. No more expensive stuff!


----------



## smark

Dan203 said:


> It's also $150-200, quite large, has a really weird remote, and IMHO a not so great UI.
> 
> Over the years TiVo has (mostly) done two things well.... their UI and their remote. If they can bring those things to this device I think it will be better for most people than an Nvidia Shield. And the price point is certainly more approachable.


large? I have one and it's a bit wider than a ATV4K sitting next to it and at least half the height.


----------



## davezatz

I have mixed emotions on my SHIELD.  But no questions about the v2 remote: it's good (vs my crazy Apple TV remote). Also, it is small. Don't let the pictures fool you. By the by, my SHIELD TV PRO with a USB drive (and networked HDHR) has been my TiVo-replacement DVR since January. It's been a fairly solid solution.


----------



## mattyro7878

foghorn2 said:


> Shied and ATV too expensive. Just want the Tivo Experience with Sling/Streaming with Kodi (local files) in one device.
> I already wasted lots of money on Tivo DVR's. No more expensive stuff!


Really no reason to spend a lot of money on new TiVo boxes. My Roamio plus was $60 and is going on year 3. My Premiere4 was $34 . Only had that for a few weeks. New is nice but not necessary.


----------



## babsonnexus

__ https://www.facebook.com/


----------



## jaselzer

Tivo continues with their bull**** instead of being straight about reality.


----------



## GBK33

really is a bummer that they are missing the window of stay at home mandate, they could be selling these by the thousands


----------



## PSU_Sudzi

There are probably dozens of people disappointed by this lololol.


----------



## jaselzer

I am one of them tbh


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

davezatz said:


> I have mixed emotions on my SHIELD.  But no questions about the v2 remote: it's good (vs my crazy Apple TV remote). Also, it is small. Don't let the pictures fool you. By the by, my SHIELD TV PRO with a USB drive (and networked HDHR) has been my TiVo-replacement DVR since January. It's been a fairly solid solution.


Using which DVR app? HDHR, or maybe Channels DVR, or Tablo? I searched for "Shield" on your site but didn't immediately find an article on that.


----------



## davezatz

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Using which DVR app? HDHR, or maybe Channels DVR, or Tablo? I searched for "Shield" on your site but didn't immediately find an article on that.


I'm using SHIELD as both a Channels DVR hub and a Channels display client. It sits at the family room TV and is fed from a used HDHomeRun Prime with FiOS TV CableCARD in the office and augmented by my mom's Comcast TVE account to add Big Ten channel and Sprout. Other rooms/tvs have Apple TV and Fire TV for playback.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

davezatz said:


> I'm using SHIELD as both a Channels DVR hub and a Channels display client. It sits at the family room TV and is fed from a used HDHomeRun Prime with FiOS TV CableCARD in the office and augmented by my mom's Comcast TVE account to add Big Ten channel and Sprout. Other rooms/tvs have Apple TV and Fire TV for playback.


Excellent. IMHO, Channels DVR is the best TiVo alternative.


----------



## tommiet

Well... Give Tivo a break.. They didn't say what year it would be ready.. Just before the end of April.


----------



## janitor53

davezatz said:


> I'm using SHIELD as both a Channels DVR hub and a Channels display client. It sits at the family room TV and is fed from a used HDHomeRun Prime with FiOS TV CableCARD in the office and augmented by my mom's Comcast TVE account to add Big Ten channel and Sprout. Other rooms/tvs have Apple TV and Fire TV for playback.


I know everyone is different, has different wants and needs, different budgets, etc. but to make TV this complicated seems insane to me. No one should have to augment anything with multiple "borrowed" accounts, multiple pieces of hardware, etc. Maybe the Tivo stream is made to consolidate this kind of mess....I don't know.


----------



## Dan203

smark said:


> large? I have one and it's a bit wider than a ATV4K sitting next to it and at least half the height.


The ATV is large as well. This TiVo thing is a dongle that hangs off the HDMI port, not a full size box that needs to sit on a shelf or be hung on the wall.


----------



## Dan203

janitor53 said:


> I know everyone is different, has different wants and needs, different budgets, etc. but to make TV this complicated seems insane to me. No one should have to augment anything with multiple "borrowed" accounts, multiple pieces of hardware, etc. Maybe the Tivo stream is made to consolidate this kind of mess....I don't know.


Unfortunately this is the direction we're heading. I currently subscribe to cable ($170ish/mo) and 9 different streaming services.  (Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, ATV+, Disney+, YouTube Premium, CBS All Access, DC Universe and CuriosityStream) My wife was just asking me about Sundance Now, and I'm currently looking at Peacock and HBO Max, so we could have even more in the future. It's really getting insane.


----------



## Noelmel

Dan203 said:


> Unfortunately this is the direction we're heading. I currently subscribe to cable ($170ish/mo) and 9 different streaming services.  (Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, ATV+, Disney+, YouTube Premium, CBS All Access, DC Universe and CuriosityStream) My wife was just asking me about Sundance Now, and I'm currently looking at Peacock and HBO Max, so we could have even more in the future. It's really getting insane.


There's a limited time HBO MAX pre order deal that started yesterday. I just signed up today. I posted the email I got in another thread if you didn't see it's also on their website.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dan203

Noelmel said:


> There's a limited time HBO MAX pre order deal that started yesterday. I just signed up today. I posted the email I got in another thread if you didn't see it's also on their website.


I saw, that's what I was referring to when I said I was "looking at" it.


----------



## wmcbrine

Dan203 said:


> The ATV is large as well.


Eh, I realize it's bigger than a dongle, but it's smaller than the _good_ streamers from Roku (Ultra) or Amazon (Cube), which are more comparable -- Apple just doesn't offer a low-end streamer, basically. It's also smaller than a TiVo Mini (much less a Roamio, Bolt or Edge).


----------



## shwru980r

GBK33 said:


> really is a bummer that they are missing the window of stay at home mandate, they could be selling these by the thousands


With so many people losing their jobs, I think discretionary spending is decreasing. First thing to cut is cable, internet and steaming services.


----------



## Dan203

wmcbrine said:


> Eh, I realize it's bigger than a dongle, but it's smaller than the _good_ streamers from Roku (Ultra) or Amazon (Cube), which are more comparable -- Apple just doesn't offer a low-end streamer, basically. It's also smaller than a TiVo Mini (much less a Roamio, Bolt or Edge).


I know, it's not huge, just comparatively bigger than what TiVo is offering. And I think the smaller size will be a selling point. I think the smaller dongle form factor is preferable to most people. The extra performance, and add on bits, that the bigger cube units offer just aren't that important to most people. I think if Apple made a "stick" version of the ATV it would likely outsell the bigger one too.


----------



## smark

Dan203 said:


> I know, it's not huge, just comparatively bigger than what TiVo is offering. And I think the smaller size will be a selling point. I think the smaller dongle form factor is preferable to most people. The extra performance, and add on bits, that the bigger cube units offer just aren't that important to most people. I think if Apple made a "stick" version of the ATV it would likely outsell the bigger one too.


For some, I don't like the sticks generally due to WiFi interference and most I can't hard wire with Ethernet.


----------



## mattyro7878

Dan203 said:


> Unfortunately this is the direction we're heading. I currently subscribe to cable ($170ish/mo) and 9 different streaming services.  (Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, ATV+, Disney+, YouTube Premium, CBS All Access, DC Universe and CuriosityStream) My wife was just asking me about Sundance Now, and I'm currently looking at Peacock and HBO Max, so we could have even more in the future. It's really getting insane.


We are in the same boat. I was ashamed to admit it so thanks for putting it out there. The thing is I have no place spending almost $300 on "the tube". ( cable, internet, streaming, tivos and cablecard. How did we get here??


----------



## Dan203

smark said:


> For some, I don't like the sticks generally due to WiFi interference and most I can't hard wire with Ethernet.


According to someone on Reddit the AirTV Mini can be used with a ChromeCast ethernet power cord. Since the TiVo device seems to be based on the same hardware as the AirTV Mini I'm betting this trick will work for it as well. (FireTV Sticks also have an ethernet adapter)


----------



## Dan203

mattyro7878 said:


> We are in the same boat. I was ashamed to admit it so thanks for putting it out there. The thing is I have no place spending almost $300 on "the tube". ( cable, internet, streaming, tivos and cablecard. How did we get here??


They're all just small little amounts on the credit card. You don't notice them as much as that giant $200 cable bill.


----------



## davezatz

janitor53 said:


> I know everyone is different, has different wants and needs, different budgets, etc. but to make TV this complicated seems insane to me. No one should have to augment anything with multiple "borrowed" accounts, multiple pieces of hardware, etc. Maybe the Tivo stream is made to consolidate this kind of mess....I don't know.


I'm a tinkerer and not necessary advocating. But being able to add cable channels I don't get unified alongside my own cable package is an amazingly clever capability. As is recording online content. TiVo can do neither of these.

As to folks desire for simplicity, well that's exactly why TiVo is currently a non-factor - most have gone with, are satisfied with the set-tops the cablecos provide. And some like X1 and Dish Hopper are actually quite good. (And I think we'll soon find out folks are also largely satisfied with the streamers and connected televisions they already possess.)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## schatham

What are the odds this will have the Xfinity app?


----------



## Bierboy

wmcbrine said:


> Eh, I realize it's bigger than a dongle, but it's smaller than the _good_ streamers from Roku (Ultra) or Amazon (Cube), which are more comparable -- Apple just doesn't offer a low-end streamer, basically. It's also smaller than a TiVo Mini (much less a Roamio, Bolt or Edge).


The Apple TV is smaller in length and width than the Roku Ultra, but is much "taller". I have both. FWIW, the ATV leaps and bounds ahead of anything by Roku (and, yes, I know it's much more expensive). I have YTTV, and there were always glitches using it with the Roku Ultra.


----------



## Bierboy

Dan203 said:


> I know, it's not huge, just comparatively bigger than what TiVo is offering. And I think the smaller size will be a selling point. I think the smaller dongle form factor is preferable to most people. The extra performance, and add on bits, that the bigger cube units offer just aren't that important to most people. I think if Apple made a "stick" version of the ATV it would likely outsell the bigger one too.


They may not be important to "most people", but I think when performance is leaps and bounds beyond what the "sticks" offer, THEN it does become a factor. And that's what the  TV is.


----------



## wmcbrine

Bierboy said:


> The Apple TV is smaller in length and width than the Roku Ultra, but is much "taller".


Yeah I know, I just didn't want to overcomplicate my post.


----------



## aaronwt

Dan203 said:


> They're all just small little amounts on the credit card. You don't notice them as much as that giant $200 cable bill.


That's why I'm glad mine is only $90 after all taxes and fees on Fios. For gigabit internet, custom TV, and home phone service. .

I used to pay $120 a month, just for TV, when I had DirecTV in the early 2000s.But that was the only way for me to get HD content besides OTA. Since Comcast only had SD back then. For the Last thirteen years I've paid less and less for a triple play on FiOS. Every time I renewed my two year contract.

Sent from my Tab A 8.0


----------



## cwoody222

Wow that’s a great fios price. I pay $137 for gigabit and extreme TV and 2 cable cards (but somehow I only get charged for 1).


----------



## foghorn2

I just pay $49 for the internets and $30 for Sling Blue. OTA is free and lots of owned content on my NAS, $80 total for all the content I want, I'm done!


----------



## foghorn2

aaronwt said:


> That's why I'm glad mine is only $90 after all taxes and fees on Fios. For gigabit internet, custom TV, and home phone service. .........


Thats a good deal if its after all taxes. With COX the same would be about $120 with taxes


----------



## Dan203

That's cheap. Here we have 10/100 internet and the Silver cable package (no phone) for $175/mo. They offer a much better deal for new customers for 2 year, but will not give that same deal to existing customers. 

Our only other option here is ATT Uverse which isn't compatible with TiVo so not really an option.


----------



## davezatz

aaronwt said:


> That's why I'm glad mine is only $90 after all taxes and fees on Fios. For gigabit internet, custom TV, and home phone service. .


My FiOS plan is priced similarly. It's way cheaper to keep what I have vs go Internet-only and pickup Sling or YouTube TV, etc.


----------



## chiguy50

Just to put the value proposition into perspective, last November I negotiated a Comcast CTV/HSI bulk-services agreement (BSA) for our 335-member HOA that included the following services and equipment for each unit owner: Blast! HSI with no data cap, Preferred CTV plus HBO and SHO, one XG1v4 DVR w/60 hours cloud storage, two Xi6 client STB's, and one XB6 gateway. The 10-year deal included a bunch of additional benefits for the association, among them a $21K signing bonus (aka "door fee") with a five-year opt-out, and stipulated that annual price increases would be capped at five percent.

The total monthly per unit cost, including ALL taxes and fees, came to $70.

Believe it or not, my Board of Directors turned down the deal. We are now entering the final year of the BSA I negotiated back in 2011 for CTV (Digital Starter tier) alone, for which we are paying close to $40 monthly on a per unit basis.


----------



## Bierboy

aaronwt said:


> That's why I'm glad mine is only $90 after all taxes and fees on Fios. For gigabit internet, custom TV, and home phone service...


I'm at $110 total for Fibre Internet 200/200 (no cap) and YTTV - so not that much more. Using an  TV 4K which is just awesome.


----------



## trip1eX

aaronwt said:


> That's why I'm glad mine is only $90 after all taxes and fees on Fios. For gigabit internet, custom TV, and home phone service. .


does that include equipment costs? What is the tv package? Pretty standard one or a limited basic type of package?


----------



## trip1eX

chiguy50 said:


> Just to put the value proposition into perspective, last November I negotiated a Comcast CTV/HSI bulk-services agreement (BSA) for our 335-member HOA that included the following services and equipment for each unit owner: Blast! HSI with no data cap, Preferred CTV plus HBO and SHO, one XG1v4 DVR w/60 hours cloud storage, two Xi6 client STB's, and one XB6 gateway. The 10-year deal included a bunch of additional benefits for the association, among them a $21K signing bonus (aka "door fee") with a five-year opt-out, and stipulated that annual price increases would be capped at five percent.
> 
> The total monthly per unit cost, including ALL taxes and fees, came to $70.
> 
> Believe it or not, my Board of Directors turned down the deal. We are now entering the final year of the BSA I negotiated back in 2011 for CTV (Digital Starter tier) alone, for which we are paying close to $40 monthly on a per unit basis.


 Why did they turn it down?


----------



## aaronwt

trip1eX said:


> does that include equipment costs? What is the tv package? Pretty standard one or a limited basic type of package?


That includes all discounts, taxes, fees, and the one cable card I rent. I think its around $80 before the taxes, fees, and cable card.

So $90 and some change is what I pay each month. I'm also using the auto payment option to get a $5 discount. But that is one of the discounts already included in the $90 price as pay.

I have the Custom TV option so I could pick a package that doesn't include sports. Otherwise with a package with sports the cost is over $10 more a month from the Regional sports networks etc.

I used to have the Ultimate TV option along with Gigabit Internet and home phone service. But I was paying around $150 a month when I had it.

So I dropped that to Custom TV and also have Philo and Hulu to get access to content from channels I don't have on Custom TV.

The main reason I did this was because of the poor video quality FiOS has now. But the lower cost each month was an additional benefit.

Sent from my Galaxy S10


----------



## Hamstring

shwru980r said:


> Hamstring reported he got a pre roll ad last week. Not sure what the specifics of that ad was.


It was for the TiVo 4K streamer. Just like the website video.


----------



## trip1eX

Dan203 said:


> I know, it's not huge, just comparatively bigger than what TiVo is offering. And I think the smaller size will be a selling point. I think the smaller dongle form factor is preferable to most people. The extra performance, and add on bits, that the bigger cube units offer just aren't that important to most people. I think if Apple made a "stick" version of the ATV it would likely outsell the bigger one too.


I don't think the smaller size is a selling pt because an AppleTV can easily be hid behind a tv on the wall. It is the much cheaper price a smaller but less powerful device brings to the table.


----------



## chiguy50

trip1eX said:


> Why did they turn it down?


Seems like a no-brainer, right?

Actually, I had prepared a decision paper in which I myself listed a number of "cons" as well as four or five alternative approaches. I am a retired U.S. Army NCO, and that is the way I am accustomed to presenting a problem solution to the command authority. But my recommendation was to approve the proposed agreement.

The reason that our BOD turned it down was, ultimately, due to cowardice and a lack of leadership. They were afraid to have to defend raising the monthly dues to pay for it. It would have meant an additional assessment of approx. $30 (or $25 in the first year if we had applied the $21K door fee to that year's budgetary obligation) on top of the $38.25 that our current agreement is costing us monthly on a per-unit basis for just Digital Starter TV w/limited equipment (and not including the HD Technology Fee).

Their lack of courage was all the more inexcusable given the statistics that I was able to compile that showed that our homeowners would have wound up saving a net $60 on average per month AFTER the dues increase based on what they were spending now for combined Comcast HSI & CTV for LESSER services and equipment.

You can lead a horse to water . . .


----------



## shwru980r

trip1eX said:


> I don't think the smaller size is a selling pt because an AppleTV can easily be hid behind a tv on the wall. It is the much cheaper price a smaller but less powerful device brings to the table.


Seems like the price would be insignificant if this new Tivo device becomes a one device solution. Not sure if it is a good idea to sacrifice horsepower.


----------



## trip1eX

shwru980r said:


> Seems like the price would be insignificant if this new Tivo device becomes a one device solution. Not sure if it is a good idea to sacrifice horsepower.


Well I didn't say it was a good idea to sacrifice horsepower to make it cheaper. I mean I own 2 AppleTVs. I see the advantages of having more horsepower. So I agree with you there that the cheap dongle will probably hurt the experience. 

But people buy those dongles because they are cheap not because they are smaller than an ATV. ATV is small enough to easily hide behind a tv although maybe that is less the case with a very slim tv today with a slim wall mount.


----------



## trip1eX

chiguy50 said:


> Seems like a no-brainer, right?
> 
> Actually, I had prepared a decision paper in which I myself listed a number of "cons" as well as four or five alternative approaches. I am a retired U.S. Army NCO, and that is the way I am accustomed to presenting a problem solution to the command authority. But my recommendation was to approve the proposed agreement.
> 
> The reason that our BOD turned it down was, ultimately, due to cowardice and a lack of leadership. They were afraid to have to defend raising the monthly dues to pay for it. It would have meant an additional assessment of approx. $30 (or $25 in the first year if we had applied the $21K door fee to that year's budgetary obligation) on top of the $38.25 that our current agreement is costing us monthly on a per-unit basis for just Digital Starter TV w/limited equipment (and not including the HD Technology Fee).
> 
> Their lack of courage was all the more inexcusable given the statistics that I was able to compile that showed that our homeowners would have wound up saving a net $60 on average per month AFTER the dues increase based on what they were spending now for combined Comcast HSI & CTV for LESSER services and equipment.
> 
> You can lead a horse to water . . .


 What were the cons you listed? What were the alt plans?

the cons I see are that those who aren't interested would be subsidizing it for the rest.

2nd, with tv going to streaming, cabletv doesn't have the appeal it once had. I mean I don't have cabletv right now and I imagine I never will again have traditional cabletv.

3rd, not sure I would be a fan of the 60gb cloud dvr from the cable company.


----------



## chiguy50

trip1eX said:


> What were the cons you listed? What were the alt plans?
> 
> the cons I see are that those who aren't interested would be subsidizing it for the rest.
> 
> 2nd, with tv going to streaming, cabletv doesn't have the appeal it once had. I mean I don't have cabletv right now and I imagine I never will again have traditional cabletv.


I don't have the decision paper in front of me at the moment, but you hit on two of the cons--everyone pays regardless of whether they want the service or prefer to maintain an identical service from a different provider, and we commit to this provider for both HSI and video for a period of 10 years (although we could opt out without penalty after five years and prior to that would simply have to pay back a pro-rated share of the 21K "door fee" and return all equipment or transfer it to the respective residential accounts). Those are just two of the common drawbacks to a BSA which you have to weigh against the significant cost reduction (in our case around 50% over the discounted retail pricing) and other advantages.

I don't want to go into the alternatives, since they are specific to our property. But you have to judge whether you have confidence that the provider from whom you are contracting will satisfy your service needs over the period in question and whether the costs are worth the investment.

Some of the ancillary benefits (in our case they would have included Comcast building out our infrastructure and providing common area services at no cost to us) can also sweeten the deal.



trip1eX said:


> 3rd, not sure I would be a fan of the 60gb cloud dvr from the cable company.


The XG1v4 DVR has a 500GB HDD and is actually a well regarded device. The 60 hours of cloud storage is separate from (and reportedly mirrors) the HDD storage.


----------



## Dan203

trip1eX said:


> I don't think the smaller size is a selling pt because an AppleTV can easily be hid behind a tv on the wall. It is the much cheaper price a smaller but less powerful device brings to the table.


The price is likely the #1 reason. But, to me at least, the size is also a plus.


----------



## BillyClyde

Has anyone posted this Cord Cutters News video about the Stream 4K from 3 days ago?


----------



## slowbiscuit

chiguy50 said:


> I don't have the decision paper in front of me at the moment, but you hit on two of the cons--everyone pays regardless of whether they want the service or prefer to maintain an identical service from a different provider, and we commit to this provider for both HSI and video for a period of 10 years (although we could opt out without penalty after five years and prior to that would simply have to pay back a pro-rated share of the 21K "door fee" and return all equipment or transfer it to the respective residential accounts). Those are just two of the common drawbacks to a BSA which you have to weigh against the significant cost reduction (in our case around 50% over the discounted retail pricing) and other advantages.


Did you also try to negotiate just an HSI deal with Comcast? That way folks could add on whatever TV they wanted (or not).


----------



## trip1eX

Dan203 said:


> The price is likely the #1 reason. But, to me at least, the size is also a plus.


IN what way is the "smaller than AppleTV" size a plus? I'm just curious because it's hard for me to see that when I have 2 Appletvs just resting behind my tvs hanging on the wall. I don't see what a smaller than Appletv size gains a person except I can imagine some exceptions I suppose. LIke someone who has a thin tv mounted super close to the wall and has no external cables connected to it from behind the wall.

But I see what it loses for me. I'm going to get a less powerful device that is going to work worse.  But it is a lot cheaper.


----------



## shwru980r

BillyClyde said:


> Has anyone posted this Cord Cutters News video about the Stream 4K from 3 days ago?


This looks like the 3rd gen fire Tv pendant with the cord on the side instead of the corner. Target had the 3rd gen pendant for $17 a couple years ago to clear them out. The fire tv pendant didn't sell that well.


----------



## chiguy50

slowbiscuit said:


> Did you also try to negotiate just an HSI deal with Comcast? That way folks could add on whatever TV they wanted (or not).


Well, we already have an existing BSA for CTV alone (Digital Starter tier) that I negotiated in 2011. It will lapse in May 2021, which was the primary motivation behind the negotiations I conducted last year for a contract to follow on or replace that one. Our homeowners are largely very happy with the service they are currently receiving, and therefore continuing (and improving on) it was a logical starting point me. But, yes, I considered every imaginable approach.

However, as I think you are well aware, Comcast's business focus is on their broadband services and the CTV part can be considered a throw-in. By my analysis it was much more cost-effective to combine CTV with HSI rather than to contract for just one or the other. I could also have proposed a shorter-term agreement than the 10-year window; but we were getting over $150K in customer-provided equipment (CPE), and I knew that Comcast's bean counters would need to factor the amortization of that investment into the price that they quoted us. (Take another look at the elements of the package I listed above and consider what a retail customer would have to pay net p.m. just for those items alone even after all commonly available discounts. By my calculations at the time, our $70 p.m. was worth $180 on the retail market--and that does not factor in the ancillary benefits or the advantage of knowing that annual increases would be capped at five percent.)

At the same time, I also considered and solicited proposals for several different options and had discussions/negotiations with other providers as well. I could have aimed for achieving a lower-cost, more basic package, but the best cost savings are in a more comprehensive deal--not to mention the convenience for our less than technically proficient users to have all the newest, most advanced CPE provided, professionally installed, and maintained courtesy of their membership in the HOA.


----------



## Dan203

trip1eX said:


> IN what way is the "smaller than AppleTV" size a plus? I'm just curious because it's hard for me to see that when I have 2 Appletvs just resting behind my tvs hanging on the wall. I don't see what a smaller than Appletv size gains a person except I can imagine some exceptions I suppose. LIke someone who has a thin tv mounted super close to the wall and has no external cables connected to it from behind the wall.
> 
> But I see what it loses for me. I'm going to get a less powerful device that is going to work worse.  But it is a lot cheaper.


I had to buy a special mount to hang the AppleTV behind my TV. I also had to plug in a wall wart for it, vs my FireTV which I just plugged into one of the USB ports on the TV.

And to be fair the performance difference between the AppleTV and the FireTV 4K Stick are negligible. At least for basic streaming.


----------



## aaronwt

Yes, I have two ATV 4K boxes and at least two of other streamers. They are all pretty fast. But my ATV 4K boxes are my least used streamers. I easily prefer my Shield TVs and 4k Rokus and my 4k FireTVs to my ATV 4K boxes. So I'm curious how I will like the TiVo Stream 4K.

Sent from my Tab A 8.0


----------



## mattyro7878

I got a good feeling about a Monday release tomorrow.


----------



## cwoody222

mattyro7878 said:


> I got a good feeling about a Monday release tomorrow.


 It was just this past Wednesday that they said "a few weeks".


----------



## Dan203

I've got a good feeling this thing aint coming out until CA reopens and TiVo employees are allowed to go back to work.


----------



## cwoody222

Dan203 said:


> I've got a good feeling this thing aint coming out until CA reopens and TiVo employees are allowed to go back to work.


If that's a/the reason for the delay (which would be understandable), then that would also explain why a new date hasn't been announced nor a pre-sale offered .

(I'd also say a pre-sale wasn't offered because TiVo never does them; they probably don't have the processes or systems in place. Plus, demand for this device really doesn't warrant a need.)


----------



## mattyro7878

Just like new streaming services are still entering the fray, Tivo will not be the only new streamer to come out. There are maybe 10 devices five of which everyone can name . Roku, fire apple, nvidia and chromecast being the major players. So the Stream4k is sure to be followed by ...who knows?? Will my next receiver have a built in roku? Amazon and Roku have deals with tvs. I'm sure others will follow. I'm tired of hearing "why are they jumping in now?" New streamers will be coming out until the chip in our heads can just stream whatever we think.


----------



## chuvak

Dan203 said:


> I've got a good feeling this thing aint coming out until CA reopens and TiVo employees are allowed to go back to work.


Based on TiVo's increased social media activity, I'm guessing Wednesday. Starting Friday, they have tweeted about the Stream 4k each day. They have also started a pic collage on Instagram the same day. If they continue at a pic a day (fourth pic went up today), and it's a six pic collage, they'll finish Wednesday. The captions for the pics:

It's coming ⏳

...when this collage is complete.

In days, TiVo will fix television...

...all over again.


----------



## trip1eX

Dan203 said:


> I had to buy a special mount to hang the AppleTV behind my TV. I also had to plug in a wall wart for it, vs my FireTV which I just plugged into one of the USB ports on the TV.
> 
> And to be fair the performance difference between the AppleTV and the FireTV 4K Stick are negligible. At least for basic streaming.


But it was still small enough to fit behind the tv right? So not a size issue. That is a convenience of install and a price issue for you since you bought a mount. I just used a couple of zip ties originally and now it is just loosely sitting behind the tv which is mounted on the wall.

the usb power could be a plus in some situations I guess. But your tv needs an outlet anyway so how big of a plus is that? Not a size thing though in any case. It can be a price and convenience of install advantage.

And I disagree the performance difference is negligible. But I do think some people won't care just like some people were fine with running Netflix on a TiVo Roamio. At the end of the day you do get to watch the show.


----------



## GBK33

I took a chance and DM'd them on facebook and got this response. I asked when the Stream 4k will be released. This is from today

Hi George. Thank you for consulting TiVo. However, we don't have updates yet regarding its's release. You might want to discuss your thoughts about this here: https://bit.ly/2xmUAKj

They are not going to like my "thoughts"


----------



## mattyro7878

chuvak said:


> Based on TiVo's increased social media activity, I'm guessing Wednesday. Starting Friday, they have tweeted about the Stream 4k each day. They have also started a pic collage on Instagram the same day. If they continue at a pic a day (fourth pic went up today), and it's a six pic collage, they'll finish Wednesday. The captions for the pics:
> 
> It's coming ⏳
> 
> ...when this collage is complete.
> 
> In days, TiVo will fix television...
> 
> ...all over again.


See...things like this should not be posted unless it is the truth (and we know how many tiles the collage will have). This is giving hope when A) there really is none or B) they are ready to drop this product for real. I am not on Instagram so...


----------



## mdavej

trip1eX said:


> But it was still small enough to fit behind the tv right? So not a size issue.


This is what happens when there's nothing left to talk about. The thread devolves into an argument over who has the biggest dongle.


----------



## jaselzer

LOL, I have been posting my responses to their twitter bull****. Tivo just tweeted a new one: "Tivo is about to fix television again". I replied that I would really like it if they would just stop posting this BS, since their own revenue officer already stated that "it should be a few weeks". And the word "should" definitely makes me suspicious.


----------



## shwru980r

Dan203 said:


> I had to buy a special mount to hang the AppleTV behind my TV. I also had to plug in a wall wart for it, vs my FireTV which I just plugged into one of the USB ports on the TV.
> 
> And to be fair the performance difference between the AppleTV and the FireTV 4K Stick are negligible. At least for basic streaming.


I get a warning on my Fire TV pendant 3rd gen that it doesn't have enough power and to use the original power adapter when I plug it in to the USB port of my TV.


----------



## Dan203

shwru980r said:


> I get a warning on my Fire TV pendant 3rd gen that it doesn't have enough power and to use the original power adapter when I plug it in to the USB port of my TV.


My TV happens to have a special 2A port that's always on.


----------



## shwru980r

There seem to be a few headwinds that might diminish the success of this new device. 

1. Tivo is not utilizing the messaging system in their DVRs to advertise this device to existing customers.
2. Tivo chose a design similar to the Fire TV 3rd generation pendant that didn't sell very well.
3. Tivo has a reputation for slow apps with diminished functionality.


----------



## jaselzer

So, here is what is going on with Tivo's Instagram: They have posted , so far 4 photos of a collage. The collage seemingly is complete when there are 6 photos as best as I can ascertain. Therefore, Tivo is suggesting that after they post two more photos the Stream 4K will be released. The issue is that Tivo has proven themselves to be disingenuous. Therefore, when will they release further photos to complete the collage? How soon after the release of the photos will the Stream 4K be released? Will it be a pre-order or the an actual shippable purchase? Whomever is in charge of their marketing really needs to a realignment or to go back to school.


----------



## jaselzer

chuvak said:


> Based on TiVo's increased social media activity, I'm guessing Wednesday. Starting Friday, they have tweeted about the Stream 4k each day. They have also started a pic collage on Instagram the same day. If they continue at a pic a day (fourth pic went up today), and it's a six pic collage, they'll finish Wednesday. The captions for the pics:
> 
> It's coming ⏳
> 
> ...when this collage is complete.
> 
> In days, TiVo will fix television...
> 
> ...all over again.


Sorry Chuvak, I see you posted this already.


----------



## trip1eX

shwru980r said:


> There seem to be a few headwinds that might diminish the success of this new device.
> 
> 1. Tivo is not utilizing the messaging system in their DVRs to advertise this device to existing customers.
> 2. Tivo chose a design similar to the Fire TV 3rd generation pendant that didn't sell very well.
> 3. Tivo has a reputation for slow apps with diminished functionality.


 Those are headwinds afaik, but the biggest headwind is they are competing against bigger fish with already established platforms including tvs with built-in streaming tech. They aren't going to be able to compete without a product that is much much better. And I don't see that happening.

There's always that chance, but given their budget and that we have seen them go through mergers and lay off people and get rid of engineering staff... plus first hand experience of using their combined streaming/DVR UI on their DVRs, I don't see it.

Probably their best chance is to release something with enough "potential" so that one of these bigger fish buys them out.


----------



## Dan203

If they accepted pre-orders most people who care would shut up, at least for a while. Seems like a simple thing to setup just to calm the unruly masses.


----------



## eherberg

shwru980r said:


> 1. Tivo is not utilizing the messaging system in their DVRs to advertise this device to existing customers.


I would think it is intentional that they don't want this advertised to an installed customer base that is diminishing in usage and revenue (traditional DVR users) and rather market exclusively to the area increasing in usage (streaming-only customers).

Marketing to existing TiVo users is just going to keep one foot stuck in an older market that the device doesn't support anyway, while reinforcing to new users already comfortable with non-hardware DVR use the company's link to their parent's way of consuming media.

Hell - if I were them, I would distance myself from the TiVo name itself and come up with a new branding to further reinforce that distance.


----------



## cwoody222

eherberg said:


> I would think it is intentional that they don't want this advertised to an installed customer base that is diminishing in usage and revenue (traditional DVR users) and rather market exclusively to the area increasing in usage (streaming-only customers).
> 
> Marketing to existing TiVo users is just going to keep one foot stuck in an older market that the device doesn't support anyway, while reinforcing to new users already comfortable with non-hardware DVR use it's link to their parent's way of consuming media.
> 
> Hell - if I were them, I would distance myself from the TiVo name itself and come up with a new branding to further reinforce that distance.


More likely they're waiting until there's a firm action the user can take ("buy now").

The Messages feature really isn't where you tease, like preroll and social media.

I'm sure they'll send a Message when details are more firm.


----------



## trip1eX

cwoody222 said:


> More likely they're waiting until there's a firm action the user can take ("buy now").
> 
> The Messages feature really isn't where you tease, like preroll and social media.
> 
> I'm sure they'll send a Message when details are more firm.


that and let the early adopters work out the bugs first.


----------



## mattyro7878

There were a whole lot of flip phones out there..some with screens and internet access. Then the I-Phone was released and every phone since then was based on that look and feel. I'm not saying this is gonna be an I-Phone but if it does what the others do but a little better and has a couple unique operations it can become a player. maybe major maybe not. Say all you want about how horrible this company has got- my experience is as good as it ever has been. My boxes reliably record what I ask them to. They are responsive and maintained (except my Premiere) . All ive seen over the years are larger hard drives, more tuners, and a hi-def UI. Thanks Tivo!


----------



## Charles R

Dan203 said:


> If they accepted pre-orders most people who care would shut up, at least for a while. Seems like a simple thing to setup just to calm the unruly masses.


Masses? You mean the two or three people (of which I'm not sure are actually interested) that endlessly post?


----------



## Dan203

Charles R said:


> Masses? You mean the two or three people (of which I'm not sure are actually interested) that endlessly post?


There are actually quite a few people like that on their Facebook page too if you read through the posts there.


----------



## jaselzer

Charles R said:


> Masses? You mean the two or three people (of which I'm not sure are actually interested) that endlessly post?


Do you mean.......like me?


----------



## Charles R

Dan203 said:


> There are actually quite a few people like that on their Facebook page too if you read through the posts there.


I don't doubt it... and I don't doubt (as well) most aren't actually interested in purchasing one.


----------



## trip1eX

mattyro7878 said:


> There were a whole lot of flip phones out there..some with screens and internet access. Then the I-Phone was released and every phone since then was based on that look and feel. I'm not saying this is gonna be an I-Phone but if it does what the others do but a little better and has a couple unique operations it can become a player. maybe major maybe not. Say all you want about how horrible this company has got- my experience is as good as it ever has been. My boxes reliably record what I ask them to. They are responsive and maintained (except my Premiere) . All ive seen over the years are larger hard drives, more tuners, and a hi-def UI. Thanks Tivo!


Company isn't horrible. But they are a day late and dollar short here. And their 1 UI for streaming and recordings never was great. and in the meantime they have been downsizing and going thru various mergers.

Plus competitors have the 1 UI for everything. I have it on my Appletv. I never felt compelled to use it. I don't think 1 UI to rule them all is everything it is cracked up to be.


----------



## shwru980r

eherberg said:


> I would think it is intentional that they don't want this advertised to an installed customer base that is diminishing in usage and revenue (traditional DVR users) and rather market exclusively to the area increasing in usage (streaming-only customers).
> 
> Marketing to existing TiVo users is just going to keep one foot stuck in an older market that the device doesn't support anyway, while reinforcing to new users already comfortable with non-hardware DVR use the company's link to their parent's way of consuming media.
> 
> Hell - if I were them, I would distance myself from the TiVo name itself and come up with a new branding to further reinforce that distance.


But I think the consensus among members on this forum is to already use a separate device for streaming and if you are a Tivo owner using a separate device for streaming, then you might appreciate a streaming device with the same interface and similar remote as the DVR. If this new device becomes a success they could even go so far as to discontinue support for apps on their DVRs and tell everyone to buy the new streaming device. If they had a unified remote that could control the DVR and their new streaming device, that could be a big selling point for existing Tivo users.


----------



## eherberg

Possible -- but considering that they're already partnering with a cable-like streaming company in Sling, I don't see the desire to undercut traditional cableboxes by drawing more attention to streaming alternatives. Sling and it's peers are already catering to that middle group of wanna-be cord cutters … the group that still wants cable, but just at the lower price. The focus for the future for company growth is to entice cord cutters and the cord cutter-light crowd. I don't see that meshing with current box owners.


----------



## Noelmel

They just posted another teaser on their Facebook. Also one from Saturday not posted here yet. They're really ramping up the promo now so really hope it's actually "soon"










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jaselzer

If you follow their Instagram and if they issue a daily post( which they have been since Friday) then they should be releasing Wednesday night or daytime Thursday. Let’s see if they stick to it or are just manipulating. The collage is 6 panes and as of today they posted 4 of them. That means Wednesday is the final one. Their post says coming when the collage is complete. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## spiderpumpkin

So they know when it's coming out and it's only like a week late. Why didn't they say exactly when so the press could have written the date. Instead, they just got some bad press saying the TiVo Stick was delayed.


----------



## shwru980r

Noelmel said:


> They just posted another teaser on their Facebook. Also one from Saturday not posted here yet. They're really ramping up the promo now so really hope it's actually "soon"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looks like they will supply Velcro adhesive strips to secure this device to the back of the TV. What kind of TV are they using?


----------



## shwru980r

spiderpumpkin said:


> So they know when it's coming out and it's only like a week late. Why didn't they say exactly when so the press could have written the date. Instead, they just got some bad press saying the TiVo Stick was delayed.


It's not a stick. It looks similar to the Fire TV 3rd gen pendant.


----------



## mdavej

Noelmel said:


> They just posted another teaser on their Facebook. Also one from Saturday not posted here yet. They're really ramping up the promo now so really hope it's actually "soon"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You forgot to post the whole thing:
"All your favorite shows, one screen. No switching between apps. *Except for the shows on your Tivo or any other streaming service besides Sling*."


----------



## trip1eX

i'm on board with the "STream overflows when the 6 pieces of the collage are complete" theory.


----------



## jaselzer

Two issues: I am hopeful again, but: there is no assurance that TiVo will post daily a piece of the collage. Let’s see if they do post another piece today. Also, despite TiVo stating that once the collage is complete the stream will be launched(Literally what they said is this: (“TiVo....when the collage is complete”); therefore, they simply might’ve meant that it’s not going to be launched before the collage is complete but we have no idea how long after the collage is complete they will launch it. Remember the old adage, “full me once shame on you, full me twice shame on me.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## babsonnexus

Once upon a time in 1995, there was a product that had had over half of the market share. By 1998, that product had reached a whopping 64%. At the same time, a competitor that came out in 1995 had by then reached 34%. By the end of 1999, their two market shares had completely reversed. The newcomer did not have a superior product, but had a superior distribution channel. By 2003, the so-called newcomer controlled 96% of the market and the original dominant player had dropped to just 3%. Would this be the end of the story? No! Others launched competitors, chipping away at their lead.

However, going in to 2008, the main player still had 86% of the market. Sure it was less, but they felt secure in their position. They should not have been, though, as that complacency allowed a new competitor that launched that year to overtake them as the top product by 2014. At that time, this very late-to-the-game competitor controlled 34% of the market and the once-dominant player had just 23%. Today, that latecomer controls 62% of the market and the old dominant player less than 7%.

Yet that very same late comer may be making similar mistakes compared to the player it overtook as it is starting to see declining share. They are failing at listening to their customers' concerns and desires. What was once an open system is becoming closed off, and there are great concerns about security and ability. The signs are already there for a new competitor to overtake them or an old competitor to rise from the seeming ashes.

This is the story of the internet browsers Netscape, Internet Explorer/Edge, and Chrome.

Want to do another one? At one point in history, Yahoo was the official search engine of the most popular browser: Netscape. It helped tremendously as Yahoo grew to third place by the middle of 1998, controlling 15% of the market. The dominant players AltaVista (22%) and Lycos (20%) seemed entrenched and the smaller players like Excite, AskJeeves, and AOL had market shares in the single digits. It looked like the market was full with large dominant players and tons of smaller players. But something interesting happened later that year: a new search engine called "Google" was launched.

Google surprised many by growing quickly, taking 11% of the market by the beginning of 2000. Still, nothing could stop the meteoric rise of Yahoo which now sat alone at top with 20% of the market. Yet things stalled out; by the middle of 2002 Yahoo was the overall king with 22% of the market, but Google was nipping at their heals. Just a quarter later, and their roles were reversed. From that point forward, it was not even a competition such that by the middle of 2010 Google owned 68% of the market and second place Yahoo had just 10% of the market. Today, Google owns the market with 78% of the share and Yahoo is somewhere distantly down the list at a little over 2%.

At the same time, Google should not rest easy. The Chinese search engine Baidu is the second largest in the world at 13% and rapidly growing (it helps that Google search is banned in China). At the same time, even tiny competitors like DuckDuckGo (<1%) are slowly chipping away. Google's position is hardly guaranteed for all eternity.

What is the moral of these stories? Just because there is a dominant player or set of players in the market, and just because someone comes late to the game, it does not mean the late player cannot overtake and become the dominant player. It has happened countless times in history, and these are but a couple of relevant and recent examples.

This is why the TiVo Stream 4K+ (with the correct execution) can become a significant and even dominant player with enough time and right decisions. Roku, Amazon Fire TV, and Apple all have a lot going against them that their archetype predecessors also had difficulty with.

Roku used to be an open and neutral system, but it is closing in on itself and the Roku Channel, prioritizing its own content over other--and also prioritizing advertisement over user experience. Roku has also been fighting with suppliers, such as the carriage deal with Fox that almost made it so the latter's apps were not available on its service for the SuperBowl. At the same time, Roku gained its share by being built-in to TV's, but with that success they are trying to charge TV builders more (or give them less a cut of revenue share). They can and will be undercut on price alone, and that can change the entire tide.

Amazon has always been a closed system that puts its own content first and offers little in the way of integration with services that are not their own. While Roku has been able to work well with TV builders, Amazon has not because they build their own products in direct competition. Most do not want to work with Amazon for this reason, and Amazon can be undercut.

Apple makes an overpriced product that the other dominant players can already undercut. While it might have a superior technical product in some ways, it seems to have a see than desirable user experience (especially in the remote). They also fight with suppliers trying to take revenue they are not entitled to (see, Netflix subscriptions when purchased from the App Store).

TiVo could win this market with having an open ecosystem (building on Android helps), having a better user experience (single-location search/bookmark), neutrality (do not push TiVo+ above other options), and price (especially with TV makers, not necessarily users). I'm not saying they will win, or that winning is even necessary to be successful. However, I am saying not to discount them just because they are late to the game. The complacency, intransigence, and lack of customer-focused efforts by the dominant players may yet be their undoing. Or, they see what TiVo is doing and steal it/buy them out and bring it into their own system (or just bury it). We don't know, but to discount the possibility would be foolish of them and us.


----------



## SOUTHDAYTONA DON

Dan203 said:


> If they accepted pre-orders most people who care would shut up, at least for a while. Seems like a simple thing to setup just to calm the unruly masses.


----------



## davezatz

babsonnexus said:


> TiVo could win this market with having an open ecosystem (building on Android helps), having a better user experience (single-location search/bookmark), neutrality (do not push TiVo+ above other options), and price (especially with TV makers, not necessarily users). I'm not saying they will win, or that winning is even necessary to be successful. However, I am saying not to discount them just because they are late to the game.


They won't win and largely won't be successful because a lack of resources and fortitude, if recent history is any indication. Their engineering teams are stretched thin, can't completely execute in a timely fashion, and pull the plug before giving something a chance. They'll be picking up their 6th CEO (probably next month) in about 4.5 years. Leadership flux, including many other execs coming and go, contributes to the frequent shifts in strategy. Beyond that, the TiVo name doesn't mean much these days and they're fighting the likes of Apple and Amazon with infinite budgets and market awareness.


----------



## foghorn2

tivo partners with uranus, details coming...


----------



## babsonnexus

davezatz said:


> They won't win and largely won't be successful because a lack of resources and fortitude, if recent history is any indication. Their engineering teams are stretched thin, can't completely execute in a timely fashion, and pull the plug before giving something a chance. They'll be picking up their 6th CEO (probably next month) in about 4.5 years. Leadership flux, including many other execs coming and go, contributes to the frequent shifts in strategy. Beyond that, the TiVo name doesn't mean much these days and they're fighting the likes of Apple and Amazon with infinite budgets and market awareness.


Oh, I'm not discounting those! TiVo is a horribly run company and Xperi has no experience in consumer products. I'm just saying being late to the game is no reason they can't win. All of what you have listed are reasons they probably won't succeed!


----------



## babsonnexus

Newswire: Pluto TV Partners With TiVo to Expand the TiVo+ Content Network

TL;DR: Pluto is going to be integrated into the live guide alongside TiVo+. Relevant to this thread:



> Pluto TV will be rolling out in the coming weeks to customers on TiVo EDGE.... Pluto TV will also soon become available on the upcoming TiVo Stream 4K device.


So mayhap this is part of the delay to have Pluto integrated on day 1?


----------



## janitor53

Interesting that it's coming to Edge and Stream...I wonder if Edge is going to get some of the stream integration moving forward?


----------



## cwoody222

I wouldn’t discount it coming to all the current devices that run TiVo+.

Makes no sense for Pluto to only get the tiny install base of the Edge and the yet-non-existent install base of the Stream.

This is written in typical PR speak. Just because they mention their high end product doesn’t mean low end products won’t get to play too.

I wouldn’t assume any other Stream features coming to the DVR’s. This release is really about adding content to TiVo+ which is likely device agnostic, with them taking the opportunity to name-drop their current flagship and upcoming product in the same release. Reading into it more than that would be a mistake, I think.

Pluto actually has some good content. If the actual content is integrated into the guide (unlike the current way TiVo+ is “integrated”) I could see myself watching more of it.

I’d even use TiVo+ on my Mini to get Pluto content... if they could ever get my Mink to display something other than a black screen when I try to launch TiVo+.


----------



## chuvak

chuvak said:


> Based on TiVo's increased social media activity, I'm guessing Wednesday. Starting Friday, they have tweeted about the Stream 4k each day. They have also started a pic collage on Instagram the same day. If they continue at a pic a day (fourth pic went up today), and it's a six pic collage, they'll finish Wednesday. The captions for the pics:
> 
> It's coming ⏳
> 
> ...when this collage is complete.
> 
> In days, TiVo will fix television...
> 
> ...all over again.


Fifth pic added:

5. All your favorite shows and movies, from your different apps... ‍♀​


----------



## cwoody222

jaselzer said:


> Two issues: I am hopeful again, but: there is no assurance that TiVo will post daily a piece of the collage. Let's see if they do post another piece today. Also, despite TiVo stating that once the collage is complete the stream will be launched(Literally what they said is this: ("TiVo....when the collage is complete"); therefore, they simply might've meant that it's not going to be launched before the collage is complete but we have no idea how long after the collage is complete they will launch it. Remember the old adage, "full me once shame on you, full me twice shame on me."
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not to burst your bubble here but I think you're making a large assumption that "...when this collage is complete." is the end of "It's coming"

These are social media posts meant to peak interest and increase engagement. They're not riddles meant to be solved to gain insight into the great release date secret.

But if we want to parse for hidden meanings, I read the captions as,

"All your favorite shows and movies, from your different apps... when this collage is complete.
"In days, TiVo will fix television... all over again."
"It's coming"

"It's coming" has no ellipses and is the "final" image (bottom right). It's the virtual period at the end of the collage sentence.

PS they did not "literally" say "TiVo... when the collage is complete", "TiVo" in your quote is their username, placed to the left of their caption, by Instagram.


----------



## jaselzer

cwoody222 said:


> Not to burst your bubble here but I think you're making a large assumption that "...when this collage is complete." is the end of "It's coming"
> 
> These are social media posts meant to peak interest and increase engagement. They're not riddles meant to be solved to gain insight into the great release date secret.
> 
> But if we want to parse for hidden meanings, I read the captions as,
> 
> "All your favorite shows and movies, from your different apps... when this collage is complete.
> "In days, TiVo will fix television... all over again."
> "It's coming"
> 
> "It's coming" has no ellipses and is the "final" image (bottom right). It's the virtual period at the end of the collage sentence.
> 
> PS they did not "literally" say "TiVo... when the collage is complete", "TiVo" in your quote is their username, placed to the left of their caption, by Instagram.


Your explanation is more than reasonable. Unfortunately. I was hoping that it was to mean an imminent launch.

However, I did read the instagram posts in the order of their release as this: "It's coming...", "....when this collage is complete.""In days, Tivo will fix television...", "....all over again".

So, it did read to me that Tivo is stating that they intend to launch when the collage is complete. I suppose there is much hopeful thinking in my reading of the posts in the order they were released.


----------



## aaronwt

babsonnexus said:


> Newswire: Pluto TV Partners With TiVo to Expand the TiVo+ Content Network
> 
> TL;DR: Pluto is going to be integrated into the live guide alongside TiVo+. Relevant to this thread:
> 
> So mayhap this is part of the delay to have Pluto integrated on day 1?


great! Another product on TiVo with commercials. The last thing I want to do is watch something that has commercials with it.


----------



## mattyro7878

babsonnexus said:


> Once upon a time in 1995, there was a product that had had over half of the market share. By 1998, that product had reached a whopping 64%. At the same time, a competitor that came out in 1995 had by then reached 34%. By the end of 1999, their two market shares had completely reversed. The newcomer did not have a superior product, but had a superior distribution channel. By 2003, the so-called newcomer controlled 96% of the market and the original dominant player had dropped to just 3%. Would this be the end of the story? No! Others launched competitors, chipping away at their lead.
> 
> However, going in to 2008, the main player still had 86% of the market. Sure it was less, but they felt secure in their position. They should not have been, though, as that complacency allowed a new competitor that launched that year to overtake them as the top product by 2014. At that time, this very late-to-the-game competitor controlled 34% of the market and the once-dominant player had just 23%. Today, that latecomer controls 62% of the market and the old dominant player less than 7%.
> 
> Yet that very same late comer may be making similar mistakes compared to the player it overtook as it is starting to see declining share. They are failing at listening to their customers' concerns and desires. What was once an open system is becoming closed off, and there are great concerns about security and ability. The signs are already there for a new competitor to overtake them or an old competitor to rise from the seeming ashes.
> 
> This is the story of the internet browsers Netscape, Internet Explorer/Edge, and Chrome.
> 
> Want to do another one? At one point in history, Yahoo was the official search engine of the most popular browser: Netscape. It helped tremendously as Yahoo grew to third place by the middle of 1998, controlling 15% of the market. The dominant players AltaVista (22%) and Lycos (20%) seemed entrenched and the smaller players like Excite, AskJeeves, and AOL had market shares in the single digits. It looked like the market was full with large dominant players and tons of smaller players. But something interesting happened later that year: a new search engine called "Google" was launched.
> 
> Google surprised many by growing quickly, taking 11% of the market by the beginning of 2000. Still, nothing could stop the meteoric rise of Yahoo which now sat alone at top with 20% of the market. Yet things stalled out; by the middle of 2002 Yahoo was the overall king with 22% of the market, but Google was nipping at their heals. Just a quarter later, and their roles were reversed. From that point forward, it was not even a competition such that by the middle of 2010 Google owned 68% of the market and second place Yahoo had just 10% of the market. Today, Google owns the market with 78% of the share and Yahoo is somewhere distantly down the list at a little over 2%.
> 
> At the same time, Google should not rest easy. The Chinese search engine Baidu is the second largest in the world at 13% and rapidly growing (it helps that Google search is banned in China). At the same time, even tiny competitors like DuckDuckGo (<1%) are slowly chipping away. Google's position is hardly guaranteed for all eternity.
> 
> What is the moral of these stories? Just because there is a dominant player or set of players in the market, and just because someone comes late to the game, it does not mean the late player cannot overtake and become the dominant player. It has happened countless times in history, and these are but a couple of relevant and recent examples.
> 
> This is why the TiVo Stream 4K+ (with the correct execution) can become a significant and even dominant player with enough time and right decisions. Roku, Amazon Fire TV, and Apple all have a lot going against them that their archetype predecessors also had difficulty with.
> 
> Roku used to be an open and neutral system, but it is closing in on itself and the Roku Channel, prioritizing its own content over other--and also prioritizing advertisement over user experience. Roku has also been fighting with suppliers, such as the carriage deal with Fox that almost made it so the latter's apps were not available on its service for the SuperBowl. At the same time, Roku gained its share by being built-in to TV's, but with that success they are trying to charge TV builders more (or give them less a cut of revenue share). They can and will be undercut on price alone, and that can change the entire tide.
> 
> Amazon has always been a closed system that puts its own content first and offers little in the way of integration with services that are not their own. While Roku has been able to work well with TV builders, Amazon has not because they build their own products in direct competition. Most do not want to work with Amazon for this reason, and Amazon can be undercut.
> 
> Apple makes an overpriced product that the other dominant players can already undercut. While it might have a superior technical product in some ways, it seems to have a see than desirable user experience (especially in the remote). They also fight with suppliers trying to take revenue they are not entitled to (see, Netflix subscriptions when purchased from the App Store).
> 
> TiVo could win this market with having an open ecosystem (building on Android helps), having a better user experience (single-location search/bookmark), neutrality (do not push TiVo+ above other options), and price (especially with TV makers, not necessarily users). I'm not saying they will win, or that winning is even necessary to be successful. However, I am saying not to discount them just because they are late to the game. The complacency, intransigence, and lack of customer-focused efforts by the dominant players may yet be their undoing. Or, they see what TiVo is doing and steal it/buy them out and bring it into their own system (or just bury it). We don't know, but to discount the possibility would be foolish of them and us.


This is what I have been saying all along...things change!!


----------



## PSU_Sudzi

Dan203 said:


> If they accepted pre-orders most people who care would shut up, at least for a while. Seems like a simple thing to setup just to calm the unruly masses.


I'm sure all 17 preorder customers are very upset.


----------



## Johnwashere

aaronwt said:


> great! Another product on TiVo with commercials. The last thing I want to do is watch something that has commercials with it.


I am not a fan of commercials either but this pluto TV seems to have real cable channels for free- so thats a plus. Also cord cutters would probably be happy about that.


----------



## Mikeguy

jaselzer said:


> Remember the old adage, "full me once shame on you, full me twice shame on me."


You might want to rethink that.


----------



## foghorn2

Pluto its much like Uranus, lots of crap.

Well the content is good, but the commercials are modern and very annoying. So annoying I dont watch Pluto at all. Id rather watch classic commercials on YouTube. 

Prime example, We watched Beavis and Butthead on Pluto for 2 days. On the third day the commercials were so annoying I got the DVD set and never looked back at Pluto or Uranus.


----------



## trip1eX

babsonnexus said:


> Once upon a time in 1995, there was a product that had had over half of the market share. By 1998, that product had reached a whopping 64%. At the same time, a competitor that came out in 1995 had by then reached 34%. By the end of 1999, their two market shares had completely reversed. The newcomer did not have a superior product, but had a superior distribution channel. By 2003, the so-called newcomer controlled 96% of the market and the original dominant player had dropped to just 3%. Would this be the end of the story? No! Others launched competitors, chipping away at their lead.
> 
> However, going in to 2008, the main player still had 86% of the market. Sure it was less, but they felt secure in their position. They should not have been, though, as that complacency allowed a new competitor that launched that year to overtake them as the top product by 2014. At that time, this very late-to-the-game competitor controlled 34% of the market and the once-dominant player had just 23%. Today, that latecomer controls 62% of the market and the old dominant player less than 7%.
> 
> Yet that very same late comer may be making similar mistakes compared to the player it overtook as it is starting to see declining share. They are failing at listening to their customers' concerns and desires. What was once an open system is becoming closed off, and there are great concerns about security and ability. The signs are already there for a new competitor to overtake them or an old competitor to rise from the seeming ashes.
> 
> This is the story of the internet browsers Netscape, Internet Explorer/Edge, and Chrome.
> 
> Want to do another one? At one point in history, Yahoo was the official search engine of the most popular browser: Netscape. It helped tremendously as Yahoo grew to third place by the middle of 1998, controlling 15% of the market. The dominant players AltaVista (22%) and Lycos (20%) seemed entrenched and the smaller players like Excite, AskJeeves, and AOL had market shares in the single digits. It looked like the market was full with large dominant players and tons of smaller players. But something interesting happened later that year: a new search engine called "Google" was launched.
> 
> Google surprised many by growing quickly, taking 11% of the market by the beginning of 2000. Still, nothing could stop the meteoric rise of Yahoo which now sat alone at top with 20% of the market. Yet things stalled out; by the middle of 2002 Yahoo was the overall king with 22% of the market, but Google was nipping at their heals. Just a quarter later, and their roles were reversed. From that point forward, it was not even a competition such that by the middle of 2010 Google owned 68% of the market and second place Yahoo had just 10% of the market. Today, Google owns the market with 78% of the share and Yahoo is somewhere distantly down the list at a little over 2%.
> 
> At the same time, Google should not rest easy. The Chinese search engine Baidu is the second largest in the world at 13% and rapidly growing (it helps that Google search is banned in China). At the same time, even tiny competitors like DuckDuckGo (<1%) are slowly chipping away. Google's position is hardly guaranteed for all eternity.
> 
> What is the moral of these stories? Just because there is a dominant player or set of players in the market, and just because someone comes late to the game, it does not mean the late player cannot overtake and become the dominant player. It has happened countless times in history, and these are but a couple of relevant and recent examples.
> 
> This is why the TiVo Stream 4K+ (with the correct execution) can become a significant and even dominant player with enough time and right decisions. Roku, Amazon Fire TV, and Apple all have a lot going against them that their archetype predecessors also had difficulty with.
> 
> Roku used to be an open and neutral system, but it is closing in on itself and the Roku Channel, prioritizing its own content over other--and also prioritizing advertisement over user experience. Roku has also been fighting with suppliers, such as the carriage deal with Fox that almost made it so the latter's apps were not available on its service for the SuperBowl. At the same time, Roku gained its share by being built-in to TV's, but with that success they are trying to charge TV builders more (or give them less a cut of revenue share). They can and will be undercut on price alone, and that can change the entire tide.
> 
> Amazon has always been a closed system that puts its own content first and offers little in the way of integration with services that are not their own. While Roku has been able to work well with TV builders, Amazon has not because they build their own products in direct competition. Most do not want to work with Amazon for this reason, and Amazon can be undercut.
> 
> Apple makes an overpriced product that the other dominant players can already undercut. While it might have a superior technical product in some ways, it seems to have a see than desirable user experience (especially in the remote). They also fight with suppliers trying to take revenue they are not entitled to (see, Netflix subscriptions when purchased from the App Store).
> 
> TiVo could win this market with having an open ecosystem (building on Android helps), having a better user experience (single-location search/bookmark), neutrality (do not push TiVo+ above other options), and price (especially with TV makers, not necessarily users). I'm not saying they will win, or that winning is even necessary to be successful. However, I am saying not to discount them just because they are late to the game. The complacency, intransigence, and lack of customer-focused efforts by the dominant players may yet be their undoing. Or, they see what TiVo is doing and steal it/buy them out and bring it into their own system (or just bury it). We don't know, but to discount the possibility would be foolish of them and us.


Except Netscape is Tivo. MS is the cable company. And Google is streaming.

Also every successful company beats back competitors. Pointing that out is about as relevant to Tivo's situation as pointing out that people win the lottery.

I don't know what you mean by people not wanting to work with Amazon or them being "closed." afaik you can buy various streaming services through amazon in Amazon channels. Amazon has sold tens of millions of FireTVs. So much for the customer not liking "closed." I don't sense tv manufacturers don't want to work with Amazon because they build competing products. I think tv manufacturers want to own the streaming platform in their tvs because that is recurring revenue.

Apple is going to play in the high end of the market no doubt. They will probably make the most profits while ceding market share to others. The average review score on Amazon for AppleTV is 4.6 which is no lower than Roku and above Amazon's devices. That tells me the user experience is as good or better than the others. Apple wanting a cut from Netflix through their store doesn't mean Netflix isn't on AppleTV. And like Amazon, you can buy many streaming services directly through Apple.

Closed doesn't matter to the market. Roku does advertising but it seems tasteful so far. There is one big static ad. Also you have to have your head in the sand if you think Tivo isn't going to do the same. I don't see a big push to prioritize Roku content. And it certainly doesn't stop anyone from having any app anywhere they want on the UI. I wouldn't expect Tivo to be immune to content fights either as they likely will want to make a little bit of money from distributing apps of various streaming services.

YOu forgot the other major player - tv manufacturers - Samsung, LG and Sony. Their streaming capabilities are quite good now. IF you get a new tv there is no reason to buy a new streaming box for it roughly speaking. I always preached the external box, but times have changed and now I see little need to get an external box. Maybe that changes after you own the tv for awhile as the streaming tech ages. And yes some people will want xyz streaming box for abc reason that is personal to them, but that doesn't change the bigger picture. These guys will remain a major player. And having the tech in the tv is a big advantage.

Tivo...well you have to look at their current UIs on their dvrs for insight in what to expect. I mean the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. We have seen their 1 UI for recordings/streaming and its positives and negatives. Did it light the world on fire? I don't think so. Also Apple has a 1 UI for everything. I think Amazon lets you watch content from other services thru their UI - they do on Tivo dvrs in some fashion. The not pushing Tivo+? I think they are obviously going to "push" it, but like Roku I don't think it's the concern you make it out to be. I have a RokuTV. I saw they have some services but I never was beat over the head about them ad nauseum. I fully expect the Stream to have ads from Tivo. That's a complete no-brainer in my mind. Tivo isn't going to be able to undercut anyone on price. They don't even make their own hardware. They have no leverage like lots of the other guys do.

But there's a chance. They could have some card up their sleeve. It's not impossible. LIke you said they don't have to be the dominant player to survive. Their could be room for a 5th niche player. But I think their best chance is to have something with enough potential that they get bought out by someone else like maybe by Sony which has AndroidTV on their tvs. I don't know anything about Sony's smarttv UI and experience, but perhaps if it's not too great they might be interested in what Tivo has.


----------



## Joe3

davezatz said:


> They won't win and largely won't be successful because a lack of resources and fortitude, if recent history is any indication. Their engineering teams are stretched thin, can't completely execute in a timely fashion, and pull the plug before giving something a chance. They'll be picking up their 6th CEO (probably next month) in about 4.5 years. Leadership flux, including many other execs coming and go, contributes to the frequent shifts in strategy. Beyond that, the TiVo name doesn't mean much these days and they're fighting the likes of Apple and Amazon with infinite budgets and market awareness.


Everything you mentioned points to the Board of Directors being where the virus that is taking this company out lives. As they say, the fish stinks from the head down. Their corporate proliferation of disasters is also a sign that one or more Board members more than likely has a major conflict of interest and that the Board members need to be investigated. The revolving door of CEOs has been and is more than likely a front for a corrupt Board to hide behind.


----------



## mattyro7878

Ive been away for a few hours. Did I miss the release?


----------



## Dan203

mattyro7878 said:


> Ive been away for a few hours. Did I miss the release?


Yep and it's already sold out, sorry.


----------



## cwoody222

If only there had been a presale.


----------



## shwru980r

The other thing to consider with this device is if it can be rooted. When amazon released their first fire tv devices a cottage industry was born rooting them and reselling with gray market apps. Maybe the reason for the delay is because this device can be exploited.


----------



## Noelmel

Just followed them on Instagram yesterday to see this collage everyone talking about. Just now clicked on their "story" I guess by accident and a picture flashed that seemed to be the retail box of this. But it disappeared and I wanted to screen shot it. Had instagram for awhile but new to "stories" and don't get how they work but I went back to it to watch again and it's gone. Scrolled down to their older pics posted but it's not there. Similar to the one of the Edge box but this picture it was on the right side and black and purple. Maybe I just imagined this as wishful thinking??

Then decided to check their Twitter and did anyone see this lol...









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dan203

Didn't he do some sort of promotion for them at some point?


----------



## jaselzer

Noelmel said:


> Just followed them on Instagram yesterday to see this collage everyone talking about. Just now clicked on their "story" I guess by accident and a picture flashed that seemed to be the retail box of this. But it disappeared and I wanted to screen shot it. Had instagram for awhile but new to "stories" and don't get how they work but I went back to it to watch again and it's gone. Scrolled down to their older pics posted but it's not there. Similar to the one of the Edge box but this picture it was on the right side and black and purple. Maybe I just imagined this as wishful thinking??
> 
> Then decided to check their Twitter and did anyone see this lol...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I saw this. But I'm trying to pretend I didn't.


----------



## dbattaglia001

Noelmel said:


> Just followed them on Instagram yesterday to see this collage everyone talking about. Just now clicked on their "story" I guess by accident and a picture flashed that seemed to be the retail box of this. But it disappeared and I wanted to screen shot it. Had instagram for awhile but new to "stories" and don't get how they work but I went back to it to watch again and it's gone. Scrolled down to their older pics posted but it's not there. Similar to the one of the Edge box but this picture it was on the right side and black and purple. Maybe I just imagined this as wishful thinking??
> 
> Then decided to check their Twitter and did anyone see this lol...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You weren't imagining it...


----------



## foghorn2

Dan203 said:


> Yep and it's already sold out, sorry.


Yeah, and it was only $25, free shipping direct from China overnight.


----------



## jaselzer

I already got mine. Setting it up now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Noelmel

dbattaglia001 said:


> You weren't imagining it...
> View attachment 48752


That's crazy I watched the story like 3 times and it didn't show it again haha. Well thanks for getting the screen shot!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mikeguy

Dan203 said:


> Yep and it's already sold out, sorry.


That's what happens when they only make a couple dozen.


----------



## foghorn2

Mine works great, but no Hulu Fulu carp, thats a good thing!

This is more confusing than a mouse in a burlesque show !


----------



## pfiagra

Another "days away" post on TiVo's blog (May 5, 2020)

What's New on TV | May 4-10 - TiVo Blog


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

It's up. $50 price and free shipping lasts to the 27th.

TiVo Stream 4K | Make your favorite apps feel like TV


----------



## Rikki_Rocket

TiVo Stream 4K is available for sale now on TiVo.com! I just ordered two of them ($49.99 each) - supposed to be delivered on Saturday. Check it out!


----------



## mattyro7878

My order number was S00099. I take it I was the 99th person to take the plunge. My first stand alone streamer. (He said with tears).


----------



## monkeydust

I ordered one but wasn't there supposed to be some adapter available for wired ethernet? I really don't want to use WiFi if I don't have to.

EDIT: After looking around their website, I'm wondering if I can use my old Wii U ethernet adapter. I'll probably give it a shot since I'm not using it for anything.


----------



## monkeydust

mattyro7878 said:


> My order number was S00099. I take it I was the 99th person to take the plunge. My first stand alone streamer. (He said with tears).


S00099 is the Product number. Order number should be in subject of email.


----------



## keithg1964

My order numbers is TS000018299 It is supposed to be delivered tomorrow with free shipping.

PS for some reason could not order on computer, had to use my phone to order. It would not add to cart. Strange.


----------



## cwoody222

Mine is on its way! Saturday, standard shipping. I hope the tech blog reviews are up today.

#TS000018305

I can’t believe they missed April by only 6 days.

A lot of consternation here for a whole lotta nothing.


----------



## EWiser

Now the complaining about the actual device can begin.


----------



## Lenonn

18596 here.


----------



## jaselzer

cwoody222 said:


> Mine is on its way! Saturday, standard shipping. I hope the tech blog reviews are up today.
> 
> #TS000018305
> 
> I can't believe they missed April by only 6 days.
> 
> A lot of consternation here for a whole lotta nothing.


I am very glad it is launched and already ordered mine. But cwoody222, you just don't really get what it is we were complaining about. You just want to be obnoxious. In fact, yesterday were you not the one who claimed you "did not want to burst my bubble" that I was wrong about the interpretation of the Instagram posts. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you were simply.....wrong.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Noelmel

Got mine so excited! Wish it was on Amazon just because I have a lot of Amazon credit card points and a gift card but oh well. My luck it’ll be on there later today when I get home from work lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## babsonnexus

#18737

It's supposed to be delivered on Saturday, but I'm a little concern it is going somewhere else...



















Thankfully, in the e-mail the Federated States of Micronesia turned back into RI, but so happy their front-end lookup table is set up so well! Gives me great confidence!

@Rikki_Rocket , you made me consider getting two of them, but figured let's see how one goes for now.


----------



## babsonnexus

Question for those who have ordered. After the order, it brought me to this screen:










I didn't want to start the free trial yet, but there is no option to skip for now. Can I click that button and then not start the free trial now anyway? What is in in step 3?


----------



## Rikki_Rocket

babsonnexus said:


> #18737
> @Rikki_Rocket , you made me consider getting two of them, but figured let's see how one goes for now.


I was up early #17921 - us early guys are going to probably need a software update right away - since ours has been most likely sitting packaged in a box for awhile already .

I figured for $50 and free shipping why not get two. Usually with TiVO the remote alone is $50 LOL.


----------



## pfiagra

The lighting in this photo makes it look like a T-Mobile product.


----------



## samsauce29

babsonnexus said:


> Question for those who have ordered. After the order, it brought me to this screen:
> 
> View attachment 48760
> 
> 
> I didn't want to start the free trial yet, but there is no option to skip for now. Can I click that button and then not start the free trial now anyway? What is in in step 3?


I linked my existing Sling TV account (from a previous trial) and step 3 was just "success". I suspect you can bail out of the step 2 screen.


----------



## GBK33

I linked mine to sling, but my sling account is only for the free sling services and it worked so I’m sure you can either X out of it or change it later. I ordered two as well. We’ll see how it goes


----------



## cherry ghost

babsonnexus said:


> Question for those who have ordered. After the order, it brought me to this screen:
> 
> View attachment 48760
> 
> 
> I didn't want to start the free trial yet, but there is no option to skip for now. Can I click that button and then not start the free trial now anyway? What is in in step 3?


I chose "continue shopping" and it skipped Sling.


----------



## trip1eX

monkeydust said:


> I ordered one but wasn't there supposed to be some adapter available for wired ethernet? I really don't want to use WiFi if I don't have to.
> 
> EDIT: After looking around their website, I'm wondering if I can use my old Wii U ethernet adapter. I'll probably give it a shot since I'm not using it for anything.


well if you can you're going to need an additional adapter. The specs says it has micro usb and usbc.


----------



## GBK33

Sling is pretty good, but my main issue is it has no local networks. I wish they would give us the option of choosing between multiple services. YouTube TV is IMO the best one.


----------



## janitor53

If they can bring this functionality to their OTA DVR line then I'd be interested, since sling doesn't have locals this device doesn't solve any issues for me. I'm still switching back and forth between devices.


----------



## Rikki_Rocket

janitor53 said:


> If they can bring this functionality to their OTA DVR line then I'd be interested, since sling doesn't have locals this device doesn't solve any issues for me. I'm still switching back and forth between devices.


Yes true - but at least the interface will "look like" one device and have decent remotes.
ROKU is pretty good but their remote sucks and the Sling interface is cumbersome - that's what this device should solve.

But yes I agree - just put this functionality on their OTA DVRs would be best. Game over for everyone else.


----------



## monkeydust

trip1eX said:


> well if you can you're going to need an additional adapter. The specs says it has micro usb and usbc.


Thanks. I'll have to see if I have an adapter lying around here or will need to buy a new one.


----------



## rdb4133

Thanks for the heads up everyone. Order # TS000020597 I'm in Houston and it says with free shipping it will be delivered tomorrow. I'll believe it when I see it haha


----------



## cwoody222

The set up guides and instruction manuals are available on TiVo.com.

It says it must be plugged into an outlet, not a USB port. I hope that’s not the case. Not sure I have an extra outlet behind my TV.


----------



## BillyClyde

GBK33 said:


> Sling is pretty good, but my main issue is it has no local networks. I wish they would give us the option of choosing between multiple services. YouTube TV is IMO the best one.





janitor53 said:


> If they can bring this functionality to their OTA DVR line then I'd be interested, since sling doesn't have locals this device doesn't solve any issues for me. I'm still switching back and forth between devices.


I ordered three Stream 4Ks, and also one of these to integrate my local channels right into the SlingTV Guide:

AirTV2:
Stream Local HD Channels | AirTV

I guess I'll see if or how it works whenever I get them all. My bet is it does since it works with the AirTV Mini (similar device to Stream 4K) and AndroidTV devices like the Shield.


----------



## stuart628

a couple of questions....Will this work with att tv? is there a att tv app also I see the remote has number keys wonder if I could direct tune to att channel numbers.....number 2 will this have a channels dvr server app and work with that? I Get all my locals through my antenna and att tv....third question anyone get the apple tv+ app to work from firestick on these or will there be any hope? I would LOVE to jump on this 50 dollar deal and replace my apple tvs, as I have always loved the tivo brand and think this would be the way to go for my family and I!

And i know these are just getting into the wild, just thought I would throw the questions out there, thank you all!!!


----------



## foghorn2

rdb4133 said:


> Thanks for the heads up everyone. Order # TS000020597 I'm in Houston and it says with free shipping it will be delivered tomorrow. I'll believe it when I see it haha


I think the whorehouses, I mean warehouses are in Texas ....


----------



## foghorn2

janitor53 said:


> If they can bring this functionality to their OTA DVR line then I'd be interested, since sling doesn't have locals this device doesn't solve any issues for me. I'm still switching back and forth between devices.


It will work with the Air TV Tuner, nothing like the buffering trickplaying Tivo experience, ..yet


----------



## Triride44

I'm using the Sling AirTV2 because it puts all my locals into the guide, and I can see what on without switching from streaming to OTA TiVo. Once I know what or when I want to watch I can switch over and watch my OTA Roamio.


----------



## BillyClyde

stuart628 said:


> a couple of questions....Will this work with att tv? is there a att tv app also I see the remote has number keys wonder if I could direct tune to att channel numbers.....number 2 will this have a channels dvr server app and work with that? I Get all my locals through my antenna and att tv....third question anyone get the apple tv+ app to work from firestick on these or will there be any hope? I would LOVE to jump on this 50 dollar deal and replace my apple tvs, as I have always loved the tivo brand and think this would be the way to go for my family and I!
> 
> And i know these are just getting into the wild, just thought I would throw the questions out there, thank you all!!!


I highly doubt it will have the horsepower to run a Channels DVR Server. You'd need something like an nVidia Shield Pro for that. It should however work just fine as a Channels DVR Client. Just download the Channels DVR app in the Google Play store. I doubt very highly it'll integrate into the TiVo UI though, the way SlingTV does.


----------



## foghorn2

Triride44 said:


> I'm using the Sling AirTV2 because it puts all my locals into the guide, and I can see what on without switching from streaming to OTA TiVo. Once I know what or when I want to watch I can switch over and watch my OTA Roamio.


Thats exactly how I use it. Maybe we will get to control and stream from our OTA Tivos someday.


----------



## stuart628

BillyClyde said:


> I highly doubt it will have the horsepower to run a Channels DVR Server. You'd need something like an nVidia Shield Pro for that. It should however work just fine as a Channels DVR Client. Just download the Channels DVR app in the Google Play store. I doubt very highly it'll integrate into the TiVo UI though, the way SlingTV does.


Sorry thats what I meant, the dvr client.... I have a hp MP9 as my server and it runs great....thank you! any word on att tv does anyone know? will the app work? also ANY chance at all on direct channel tune like the osprey box since the remote has numbers?


----------



## EWiser

TiVo's $50 Stream 4K dongle is ready for cord-cutters


----------



## babsonnexus

From the User Manual (Page 12 of 33)...

https://explore.tivo.com/content/dam/tivo/explore/how-to/TiVoStream4K_VG.pdf



> I SIGNED UP FOR A FREE TRIAL ON TIVO.COM
> 
> When you purchased your TiVo Stream 4K on TiVo.com, you had the option to sign up for a 7-day free trial from Sling. (A free trial is available to new Sling customers only.) To get the most out of the trial, start using your TiVo Stream 4K as soon as you receive it, since the free trial begins as soon as you sign up. See Installation and On-Screen Setup to get started.If you signed up at that time, see I'm all signed up. What now?


So my question is answered for sure: DO NOT SIGN UP FOR SLING UNTIL YOU HAVE THE DEVICE!

There is a way to sign up for the free trial on the device.


----------



## keithg1964

keithg1964 said:


> My order numbers is TS000018299 It is supposed to be delivered tomorrow with free shipping.
> 
> PS for some reason could not order on computer, had to use my phone to order. It would not add to cart. Strange.


Got tracking info; Shipping from about 30 miles away,


----------



## babsonnexus

Next concern: There is nothing in the User Guide about using a different audio source than the TV. It doesn't mention anything about how it understands how to control your TV, but Roku's can do this without codes so I'm sure that is fine. However, I'm concerned that it shares Roku's problems of needing another device to control A/V receivers (I use a Sideclick for one of my Roku's, which would not be possible with the shape of this remote).


----------



## smark

BillyClyde said:


> I ordered three Stream 4Ks, and also one of these to integrate my local channels right into the SlingTV Guide:
> 
> AirTV2:
> Stream Local HD Channels | AirTV
> 
> I guess I'll see if or how it works whenever I get them all. My bet is it does since it works with the AirTV Mini (similar device to Stream 4K) and AndroidTV devices like the Shield.


Would be curious around that as well. One would think it would see it and you can link to your Sling account as well. I thought you needed Local Channels DVR: Public Beta for it...

Edit: Maybe that is the old one.


----------



## ohmyjosh

I have a couple questions I'm hoping someone can answer since their ads for the product don't really answer much...
1) Can I stream from a Tivo Bolt in the house to this device on another tv? Like if I "record" a currently airing show downstairs on the Bolt, can I watch it "live" on this device upstairs?
2) Will this have Plex?

Thanks for the info.


----------



## smark

ohmyjosh said:


> I have a couple questions I'm hoping someone can answer since their ads for the product don't really answer much...
> 1) Can I stream from a Tivo Bolt in the house to this device on another tv? Like if I "record" a currently airing show downstairs on the Bolt, can I watch it "live" on this device upstairs?
> 2) Will this have Plex?
> 
> Thanks for the info.


1. No.
2. Yes, because it's available on Android TV. Though it won't be integrated into the Tivo Stream App.


----------



## foghorn2

babsonnexus said:


> Next concern: There is nothing in the User Guide about using a different audio source than the TV. It doesn't mention anything about how it understands how to control your TV, but Roku's can do this without codes so I'm sure that is fine. However, I'm concerned that it shares Roku's problems of needing another device to control A/V receivers (I use a Sideclick for one of my Roku's, which would not be possible with the shape of this remote).


Whatever you tv uses for audio, thats what this device will use, you can configure the remote to the tv the old fashioned way. If you have a receiver hooked up to the TV and the TV and receiver have CEC on, then it will control the volume that way.


----------



## babsonnexus

ohmyjosh said:


> 1) Can I stream from a Tivo Bolt in the house to this device on another tv? Like if I "record" a currently airing show downstairs on the Bolt, can I watch it "live" on this device upstairs?


No, in this first phase these is no integration whatsoever to existing TiVo products. They have said it might be coming (most likely through the Android App that didn't get launched last year), but do not make any purchasing decision on integration to existing TiVo products.



ohmyjosh said:


> 2) Will this have Plex?


The product is basically a skin over Android TV. If an app--like Plex--is available for Android TV, then it will be available to install. That said, it does not mean it is fully integrated. For instance, I am getting an HDHomeRun (the new NextGen 3.0 one) and setting up a DVR with it on my Plex server. So I'll have OTA through Plex and all of the Plex recordings. But the "TiVo Steam App for Android TV" that acts as a skin will not be able to read the OTA channels and add them to the Guide right now. Also, it will most likely not deep link into the recorded and file-related content. As such, we will have to launch the Plex app separately for those functions. I could be wrong about the latter, at least for file-related content, but we'll see!


----------



## babsonnexus

foghorn2 said:


> ... you can configure the remote to the tv the old fashioned way. If you have a receiver hooked up to the TV and the TV and receiver have CEC on, then it will control the volume that way.


How do you know that for sure? I have my current TiVo remote setup to so the power button turns on the TV and then turns on the receiver. Volume/Mute buttons control the receiver. I'm not concerned about pass-through sound once it is on, I am concerned about turning on the Receiver and controlling volume on the receiver directly (not through the TV).


----------



## mdavej

stuart628 said:


> a couple of questions....Will this work with att tv? is there a att tv app also I see the remote has number keys wonder if I could direct tune to att channel numbers....


Possibly.

I have some experience running the AT&T TV app on Android TV boxes.

First, it's not in the Play store, so you'll have to sideload an APK from a Fire stick. Second, if the Tivo UI completely takes over the Andriod TV interface, sideloading may be impossible, as is the case on AT&T's own Android box, the C71KW.

Second, whether or not channel numbers work is at the whim of AT&T. On the Fire TV app, they worked for a few months, then stopped working, then started working again, then stopped again. Each new version either broke or restored that functionality. When I did all my testing, I had to use a bluetooth keyboard, so having an actual remote with numbers will be an improvement.

Third, even if you can't direct tune with the number buttons, voice might work, i.e., "watch channel 123" or "watch history channel". But I think this is less likely.



> third question anyone get the apple tv+ app to work from firestick on these or will there be any hope?


Depends on the sideloading question above. In my experience, most Fire stick APKs run fine on Android TV, but some with custom front ends like this one may not let you sideload at all because they don't expose the option to allow 3rd party sources. But from the screen shots in the manual, it looks like the Tivo UI is just another app, and everything else is exposed just like a normal Android TV box, which is a very good sign. This is the approach the Channel Master Stream+ took, and it worked quite well. I could sideload just about anything until the providers themselves started blocking certain apps.

Let us know how it works out.


----------



## rdb4133

foghorn2 said:


> I think the whorehouses, I mean warehouses are in Texas ....


LOL  Yeah I'd think so.


----------



## rpenrod1

Will the USB have other functions than just power under Android? How about external storage,etc?


----------



## Jim1348

I just ordered one of these, too. I also selected the link it to my Sling TV account.


----------



## pldoolittle

babsonnexus said:


> No, in this first phase these is no integration whatsoever to existing TiVo products.


TiVo's foundation, and core technology set, is content integration into a single pane of glass.

I am dumbfounded that a TiVO streaming device for use in the home can integrate content from a dozen different non-TiVo providers located all over the planet, but cannot stream content from a TiVo device (with an already developed API) located on the same LAN.

I am amazed that a TiVo set top box cannot aggregate metadata and content from a TiVo stream device and present it.

I am shocked that the Tivo Mini has not been re-engineered to run the latest streaming apps being created for Android.

If TiVo ran McDonalds they would have launched the McRib sandwich without any meat.


----------



## aaronwt

I just placed my order for the TiVo Stream 4K. I chose standard shipping since it was free. For delivery on May 9th.


----------



## osu1991

I ordered one this morning, to try out and just got the tracking number for delivery tomorrow from Fed Ex. I usually get things in one day when I have had replacement Tivo's sent out. They ship out of DFW, so its one day to Tulsa.


----------



## aaronwt

BigJimOutlaw said:


> It's up. $50 price and free shipping lasts to the 27th.
> 
> TiVo Stream 4K | Make your favorite apps feel like TV


I only got an email about it a few minutes ago. So I placed my order right away. I didn't realize it had already been available for many hours.


----------



## aaronwt

Lenonn said:


> 18596 here.





Rikki_Rocket said:


> I was up early #17921 - us early guys are going to probably need a software update right away - since ours has been most likely sitting packaged in a box for awhile already .
> 
> I figured for $50 and free shipping why not get two. Usually with TiVO the remote alone is $50 LOL.


Wow!! I must be way back in the queue. My order number is 24554.


----------



## jimpmc

Can an ethernet port be added via one of the USB connections? If so, would any kind work?


----------



## mattyro7878

aaronwt said:


> Wow!! I must be way back in the queue. My order number is 24554.


Thats a cool $1.2 million so far. I wonder what kind of "first day projections" they had in mind? 50k ? 100k ?


----------



## Cozmo85

Wonder how they will be about updating android.


----------



## Hamstring

I ordered one. Curious to see if it’s any good. Unfortunately, I need Roku for Comcast On Demand.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

mattyro7878 said:


> Thats a cool $1.2 million so far. I wonder what kind of "first day projections" they had in mind? 50k ? 100k ?


Don't think it started at zero. Earliest overnight order number posted so far was in the 17k's.


----------



## aaronwt

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Don't think it started at zero. Earliest overnight number posted so far was in the 17k's.


And do the order numbers actually increase by one? Some places have order numbers that increase by two or more. No idea why though.

I just hope they don't run out. I guess I will need to order a second one while it's at $50 and they have stock. Since I like to duplicate my devices in my two UHD setups.


----------



## Todd Miller

jimpmc said:


> Can an ethernet port be added via one of the USB connections? If so, would any kind work?


There's a good chance the chromecast ethernet adapter (which also comes with the chromecast ultra) will work. I don't know if anyone has tried that yet though.


----------



## Mikeguy

babsonnexus said:


> From the User Manual (Page 12 of 33)...
> 
> https://explore.tivo.com/content/dam/tivo/explore/how-to/TiVoStream4K_VG.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> I SIGNED UP FOR A FREE TRIAL ON TIVO.COM
> 
> When you purchased your TiVo Stream 4K on TiVo.com, you had the option to sign up for a 7-day free trial from Sling. (A free trial is available to new Sling customers only.) To get the most out of the trial, start using your TiVo Stream 4K as soon as you receive it, since the free trial begins as soon as you sign up. See Installation and On-Screen Setup to get started.If you signed up at that time, see I'm all signed up. What now?
> 
> 
> 
> So my question is answered for sure: DO NOT SIGN UP FOR SLING UNTIL YOU HAVE THE DEVICE!
> 
> There is a way to sign up for the free trial on the device.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads-up. And that's a pretty foolish and consumer-antagonistic policy.


----------



## leiff

If I add a lux remote for $55 I noticed there's no shipping charged for the luxe remote. Is this a rare opportunity to get in luxor note with free shipping? Even though it's kind of expensive wondering if I should get it


----------



## Mikeguy

aaronwt said:


> I only got an email about it a few minutes ago. So I placed my order right away. I didn't realize it had already been available for many hours.


Yep, you probably missed out on the good ones and will get a scratch-and-dent one instead.


----------



## Mikeguy

Return policy (from the fine print):


> The TiVo 30-day Money-Back Guarantee applies to Stream 4K purchases made on Tivo.com for thirty days from the date of purchase, and if you return the TiVo Stream 4K within 15 days of the service cancellation date, then you will receive a full refund on the purchase price. Customer is responsible for return shipping.


Although in actual operation in the past (and despite the fine print), hasn't TiVo typically picked up the return shipping on the return of TiVo DVRs under the policy (and, if so, I wonder if it will do so here)?


----------



## foghorn2

Mikeguy said:


> Yep, you probably missed out on the good ones and will get a scratch-and-dent one instead.


NAh they will ship aaron the raw developer Andriod device and make him download the Tivo Rom.


----------



## Mikeguy

The Stream 4K is also being promoted via TiVo DVRs--there was a marketing message in my box's Messages section this a.m.


----------



## foghorn2

Mikeguy said:


> The Stream 4K is also being promoted via TiVo DVRs--there was a marketing message in my box's Messages section this a.m.


"Get rid of this old dying Dinosaur and purchase our new snappy streaming device"


----------



## trip1eX

aaronwt said:


> I just hope they don't run out. I guess I will need to order a second one while it's at $50 and they have stock. Since I like to duplicate my devices in my two UHD setups.


I always thought you only ordered wifi devices 10 at a time.


----------



## Mikeguy

foghorn2 said:


> "Get rid of this old dying Dinosaur and purchase our new snappy streaming device"


I only skimmed the message and so missed that part. But I did catch the mention that the Stream 4K and TiVo DVRs will be fully integrated in a future, upcoming software update.


Spoiler



Kidding!!!


----------



## trip1eX

They should put an ipod clickwheel on the STream 4k remote. It looks perfect for it. Be great for scrubbing thru a video or a list.


----------



## Joe3

Hey, if you want to record first run shows to watch later, sign-up with our competition to record them. Pay no attention to why. Don't let a little counterproductive company deal get in the way of a private kick-back. Just join the parade.


----------



## mrsean

foghorn2 said:


> I think the whorehouses, I mean warehouses are in Texas ....


Thanks for referencing one of my favorite movies ever.


----------



## andydumi

Mikeguy said:


> I only skimmed the message and so missed that part. But I did catch the mention that the Stream 4K and TiVo DVRs will be fully integrated in a future, upcoming software update.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Kidding!!!


Wait, it really won't stream from a Tivo DVR? These would be great to put on every other TV in the house if that were possible. Really not there?


----------



## cwoody222

andydumi said:


> Wait, it really won't stream from a Tivo DVR? These would be great to put on every other TV in the house if that were possible. Really not there?


Correct.

They have a product that streams from their DVRs, it's the Mini.

This ain't that.


----------



## andydumi

cwoody222 said:


> Correct.
> 
> They have a product that streams from their DVRs, it's the Mini.
> 
> This ain't that.


Oh we have one of those. Was just hoping this is a lower cost/better integrated version of those.


----------



## Mikeguy

andydumi said:


> Oh we have one of those. Was just hoping this is a lower cost/better integrated version of those.


TiVo's CEO said, back in January, that it's something to consider/look into (or words to that effect). If he's a relative of yours, let him know what you think.


----------



## babsonnexus

Someone on Facebook suggested loading the TiVo Android app on the device, then you should be able to stream from your box to the stick (especially if they are on the same network). I think this might have to be a side-load situation since there is a difference between the regular Play Store and the TV Play Store, and it certainly won't be integrated into a single menu and thus defeating the purpose of having "one interface to rule them all", but it's... uhh... something!


----------



## JeffInDFW

Tivo in January, "Its coming in April".

I wait till the end of April.

Tivo schmuk at end of April, "It's coming in a few weeks".

I give up and order Rokus.

A few days later Tivo releases it. Lesson? Tivo is out to kill me.

I walked downstairs and found the package on my doorstep with all my new Rokus. I sit down and open this thread and find the damn thing was finally released a few hours ago. WHAT!?!?! SOOOOOOOO........ I've now ordered Tivo Stream 4ks and have already processed a return on the Rokus. I'm in Dallas, ordered at 2:30pm central and expected delivery is Friday. Order# TS000031565


----------



## Steveknj

I'm intrigued by this but trying to figure out why I want one? What will make this stand out from the other streaming sticks/boxes I have, be it, Roku, FireTV, SmartTV, etc. Someone will need to give me a compelling reason. It's cheap enough at $49 so might pull the trigger anyway.


----------



## aaronwt

JeffInDFW said:


> Tivo in January, "Its coming in April".
> 
> I wait till the end of April.
> 
> Tivo schmuk at end of April, "It's coming in a few weeks".
> 
> I give up and order Rokus.
> 
> A few days later Tivo releases it. Lesson? Tivo is out to kill me.
> 
> I walked downstairs and found the package on my doorstep with all my new Rokus. I sit down and open this thread and find the damn thing was finally released a few hours ago. WHAT!?!?! SOOOOOOOO........ I've now ordered Tivo Stream 4ks and have already processed a return on the Rokus. I'm in Dallas, ordered at 2:30pm central and expected delivery is Friday. Order# TS000031565


Why not use both? No streaming device out there has access to everything. There are things on my Roku that I like to use. Things on FireTV 4K sticks I like. Things on my ATV 4K sticks I like and also things on my SHield Tvs I like.

I'm curious where the TiVo Stream 4K dongle will fit in my usage. Will my use be near my most used streamers, the Shield Tvs. Or will my use be near my least used streamers, the ATv 4Ks.


----------



## Jim1348

jimpmc said:


> Can an ethernet port be added via one of the USB connections? If so, would any kind work?





Todd Miller said:


> There's a good chance the chromecast ethernet adapter (which also comes with the chromecast ultra) will work. I don't know if anyone has tried that yet though.


I am wondering the same thing. For the $15.00 or so dollars, if very well may be worth it!

Ethernet Adapter for Chromecast - Google Store

Best Ethernet adapters for your Chromecast or Fire TV Stick


----------



## cwoody222

Steveknj said:


> I'm intrigued by this but trying to figure out why I want one? What will make this stand out from the other streaming sticks/boxes I have, be it, Roku, FireTV, SmartTV, etc. Someone will need to give me a compelling reason. It's cheap enough at $49 so might pull the trigger anyway.


For me, it's about letting me "favorite" my streaming shows so I can see them all in one place. I still watch a lot of broadcast so I see those shows on my TiVo My Shows page. I don't use my TiVo Roamio's "bookmark" feature for streaming shows because so many new shows and episodes take FOREVER to show up on TiVo. Plus, I don't really use my TiVo for streaming. I use a FireTV Cube on my 4K TV, my Vizio app for Netflix (for Dolby that the Fire doesn't do) and then a Roku on my non-4K TV.

So if I don't "see" the current shows I'm watching across streaming services, I forget about them. I don't usually binge and I'll find myself starting a show on a streaming service and then forgetting about it because it's "buried" within the app.

Sometimes I even forget which streaming service has which shows so even when I remember, I have to hunt and peck to find them.

If the Stream 4K lets me keep handy links to all my currently watching streaming shows front-and-center and front-of-mind, that will make me happy.

The fact that it's 4K and has Dolby means it gets to live on my main TV, too.


----------



## humbb

cwoody222 said:


> I don't use my TiVo Roamio's "bookmark" feature for streaming shows because so many new shows and episodes take FOREVER to show up on TiVo.


I honestly don't mean to be snarky here, but why would you expect shows to show up sooner on the TiVo Stream 4K than on the TiVo DVRs? And if they do, maybe the same improved guide data will migrate to the DVRs eventually?


----------



## cwoody222

humbb said:


> I honestly don't mean to be snarky here, but why would you expect shows to show up sooner on the TiVo Stream 4K than on the TiVo DVRs? And if they do, maybe the same improved guide data will migrate to the DVRs eventually?


Im hopeful that they got it right this time.

But we will soon see!


----------



## mrizzo80

I ordered one. Was going to order at 6am this morning but was in bed and TiVo doesn’t support Apple Pay. Why retailers don’t embrace frictionless checkout processes is something I’d love to know. 

My order number was in the low 18000s. 

Delivery estimate is Sunday, so I lost a day from this morning. 

I’m concerned about the bad TiVo metadata and I also wish this thing had Alexa support. Any hope for that coming?

The TiVo.com cart/checkout process presentation and flow was... bad.  Margret would not have approved that mess.


----------



## babsonnexus

humbb said:


> I honestly don't mean to be snarky here, but why would you expect shows to show up sooner on the TiVo Stream 4K than on the TiVo DVRs? And if they do, maybe the same improved guide data will migrate to the DVRs eventually?


You want to know something crazy? The search engine on the DVR is different than the one on the app which is different than the one on the web. It is also different than another app that TiVo/Rovi corp owns that is not TiVo but uses TiVo/Rovi metadata. You can try this out yourself just searching for random things and seeing how it comes back. For whatever reason, they recreate the wheel with each product in its search and metadata capabilities instead of a universal one. So yeah, I do expect (hope?!) that this one will be better and different than the current one(s).

Is there a system architect merging all of this together so they don't have 4x replicated overhead with errors? I'd wager not.


----------



## cwoody222

mrizzo80 said:


> I ordered one. Was going to order at 6am this morning but was in bed and TiVo doesn't support Apple Pay. Why retailers don't embrace frictionless checkout processes is something I'd love to know.


Do they have to pay Apple a percentage when they use Apple Pay?

If so, there's your reason.


----------



## BillyClyde

I was wondering. Since it appears the TiVo Stream 4K is just an app, as shown on the AndroidTV homepage image, can this same app be downloaded and installed on any other AndroidTV device, like the nVidia Shield?












smark said:


> Would be curious around that as well. One would think it would see it and you can link to your Sling account as well. I thought you needed Local Channels DVR: Public Beta for it...
> 
> Edit: Maybe that is the old one.


Yes that's the older original one, but both should work.



foghorn2 said:


> I think the whorehouses, I mean warehouses are in Texas ....


Best Little _Warehouse _in Texas!


----------



## smark

I'm curious on how the starting of content will work from the various apps. Will it launch into Netflix's user interface? Play the episode directly and come back to the Tivo front end after it ends? Hopefully we can do a "OnePass" as well.


----------



## mrizzo80

cwoody222 said:


> Do they have to pay Apple a percentage when they use Apple Pay?
> 
> If so, there's your reason.


According to this, no.

About Apple Pay for merchants

A front page google result from 2014 said Apple took a 0.15% cut then.


----------



## mrizzo80

I’m also curious how app switching will work. Guess it depends on how much memory is in this thing. My Firestick 4k doesn’t seem to hold video apps in memory very long. Hoping this is better.


----------



## BillyClyde

Sounds like a similar device here. I guess they're going to have some more competition soon!

Google's next streaming device will shake up the Android TV world


----------



## Mikeguy

I haven't seen any discussion of TiVo's Recommendations feature on the Stream 4K--will be interesting to see if the feature fares better there than on TiVo TE4 DVRs.


----------



## andydumi

BillyClyde said:


> Sounds like a similar device here. I guess they're going to have some more competition soon!
> 
> Google's next streaming device will shake up the Android TV world


Yea, that's supposed to be the next Chromecast essentially. Blends a Chromecast and Android TV into one device.


----------



## Mikeguy

BillyClyde said:


> Sounds like a similar device here. I guess they're going to have some more competition soon!
> 
> Google's next streaming device will shake up the Android TV world


Presumably, Google was up early today and ordered the first 100 of the TiVo Stream 4Ks, to check 'em out.


----------



## BillyClyde

andydumi said:


> Yea, that's supposed to be the next Chromecast essentially. Blends a Chromecast and Android TV into one device.


Did you read the article though? They're going to have content aggregation throughout the apps, just like this Stream 4K. Maybe this is going to be another clone, similar to and joining the AirTV Mini and Stream 4K.


----------



## aaronwt

I just placed my second order for a TiVo Stream 4K. The order numbers are over 37500 now.

And the FedEx tracking for the order I placed this afternoon shows a delivery on Saturday. Hopefully FedEx doesn't deliver it to the wrong address.


----------



## Jim1348

aaronwt said:


> I just placed my second order for a TiVo Stream 4K. The order numbers are over 37500 now.
> 
> And the FedEx tracking for the order I placed this afternoon shows a delivery on Saturday. Hopefully FedEx doesn't deliver it to the wrong address.


Your order number is: # TS0000229xx

Estimated delivery date:
Saturday 5/09/2020 by end of day.


----------



## zyzzx

Ordered on May 6, 2020 | Order# TS000037xxx


----------



## foghorn2

BillyClyde said:


> I was wondering. Since it appears the TiVo Stream 4K is just an app, as shown on the AndroidTV homepage image, can this same app be downloaded and installed on any other AndroidTV device, like the nVidia Shield?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes that's the older original one, but both should work.
> 
> Best Little _Warehouse _in Texas!


It is just an app, like Ive been saying but Dan thinks it takes over the Android UI. Hulu is surprising here, There Dan is right and looks like their clout got Hulu in there. The remote will be awesome as finally I will be able to channel up/down with Sling and Pluto with dedicated buttons.


----------



## BillyClyde

foghorn2 said:


> It is just an app, like Ive been saying but Dan thinks it takes over the Android UI. Hulu is surprising here, There Dan is right and looks like their clout got Hulu in there. The remote will be awesome as finally I will be able to channel up/down with Sling and Pluto with dedicated buttons.


So do you think this app can just be loaded on something like a Shield or AirTV Mini to get the same functionality, sans the cool remote of course.


----------



## mdavej

BillyClyde said:


> So do you think this app can just be loaded on something like a Shield or AirTV Mini to get the same functionality, sans the cool remote of course.


Where are you going to get the install package?


----------



## BillyClyde

mdavej said:


> Where are you going to get the install package?


Well that's exactly what I'm asking..........



BillyClyde said:


> I was wondering. Since it appears the TiVo Stream 4K is just an app, as shown on the AndroidTV homepage image, *can this same app be downloaded and installed on any other AndroidTV device*, like the nVidia Shield?





BillyClyde said:


> So do you think this app can just be loaded on something like a Shield or AirTV Mini to get the same functionality, sans the cool remote of course.


Can someone with an AndroidTV device check the Google Play App Store to see if that Stream 4K app is there, ready to be downloaded?


----------



## mdavej

BillyClyde said:


> Well that's exactly what I'm asking..........


In that case the answer is no. If it's not in the Play store (not there yet) or the Amazon app store (not there either), there's nowhere to get it.


----------



## BillyClyde

mdavej said:


> In that case the answer is no. If it's not in the Play store (not there yet) or the Amazon app store (not there either), there's nowhere to get it.


Oh believe me.....someone will find it! 

Have you personally checked all those app stores? Not being argumentative, seriously curious is all.


----------



## BillyClyde

Here are other great write ups with glowing reviews:

TiVo Stream 4K Gives You Everything You Need To Finally Cut The Cord

TiVo Stream 4K takes on Roku, Amazon Fire TV with $50 Android TV dongle


----------



## foghorn2

mdavej said:


> In that case the answer is no. If it's not in the Play store (not there yet) or the Amazon app store (not there either), there's nowhere to get it.


Will have to dig around for nested apk files after during/after an update..then extract it.


----------



## BillyClyde

mdavej said:


> In that case the answer is no. If it's not in the Play store (not there yet) or the Amazon app store (not there either), there's nowhere to get it.





BillyClyde said:


> Oh believe me.....someone will find it!
> 
> Have you personally checked all those app stores? Not being argumentative, seriously curious is all.





foghorn2 said:


> Will have to dig around for nested apk files after during/after an update..then extract it.


I guess this snippet from this article I posted above answers this question. It's "proprietary" to the Stream 4K:

_"......The Stream also includes *a proprietary TiVo Stream app *designed to surface content from all of your streaming "bundles" in a single place, powered by TiVo's search and metadata technology......"_

TiVo Stream 4K takes on Roku, Amazon Fire TV with $50 Android TV dongle


----------



## BillyClyde

Another question from that article possibly answered, but with TiVo you never know......

_"...... A TiVo spokesperson told CNET in January that the Stream won't be compatible with the existing TiVo hardware at launch as it was "designed from the ground up," but that integration is on the roadmap....."_


----------



## mdavej

BillyClyde said:


> Oh believe me.....someone will find it!
> 
> Have you personally checked all those app stores? Not being argumentative, seriously curious is all.


Both of them? Of course. Took all of 15 seconds. Kind of scratching my head at why you can't check for yourself.

The moment Tivo puts their app in the Play store is the moment they kill the Stream 4k. But they have done dumber things in the past, so I guess anything is possible.


----------



## cybergrimes

aaronwt said:


> I just placed my second order for a TiVo Stream 4K. The order numbers are over 37500 now.


I ordered 1 this morning, another this afternoon then thought about the price and the 30 day return period... decided to order another 2 to cover all the TVs in the house. I already use Android TV devices so unless there's something awful here it's an easy switch.

Anyway...
22xxx at 1030am
30xxx at 130pm
38xxx at 7pm


----------



## trip1eX

BillyClyde said:


> Here are other great write ups with glowing reviews:
> 
> TiVo Stream 4K Gives You Everything You Need To Finally Cut The Cord
> 
> TiVo Stream 4K takes on Roku, Amazon Fire TV with $50 Android TV dongle


Those aren't glowing reviews. They aren't even reviews. Just announcements that it is out and they will have full reviews later.


----------



## cwoody222

Ugh, shipping via FedEx.

FedEx NEVER delivers on the date they say for me. My pending date says Saturday now.

I’ll bet around 8pm Saturday they’ll update that to Tuesday (but it’ll arrive Monday) with some BS reason. The last two reasons were weather (it was sunny) and a bar code sticker that had to be replaced.

Wish I would have known it was FedEx, I would have paid extra to get it “on time”.


----------



## foghorn2

Fedex is pretty fast here, and even faster now even with the Pandaemic, I think Az was clogging everything up. I ordered something from NM and was shipped USPS and geot here in 3 days. So much for paying for Prime when it takes a month!


----------



## cwoody222

foghorn2 said:


> Fedex is pretty fast here, and even faster now even with the Pandaemic, I think Az was clogging everything up. I ordered something from NM and was shipped USPS and geot here in 3 days. So much for paying for Prime when it takes a month!


Well when I called to complain to FedEx they just BLAME the pandemic. Even though I have no issues at all with Amazon, UPS or USPS, FedEx tells me they ship more and are prioritizing medical deliveries.

The rep today even tried some BS about NYS limiting truck traffic on the roads. He couldn't explain why that wouldn't affect the competitors as well.


----------



## Noelmel

smark said:


> I'm curious on how the starting of content will work from the various apps. Will it launch into Netflix's user interface? Play the episode directly and come back to the Tivo front end after it ends? Hopefully we can do a "OnePass" as well.


From what I read you won't have to search for a show, you add shows you like to watch list and it will play directly from the watch list. It won't launch Netflix and you won't see the Netflix logo. Not 100% on that but we shall see... mine arrives Saturday

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cybergrimes

Noelmel said:


> From what I read you won't have to search for a show, you add shows you like to watch list and it will play directly from the watch list. It won't launch Netflix and you won't see the Netflix logo. Not 100% on that but we shall see... mine arrives Saturday
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nah it will have to launch the Netflix app, thats where Netflix wants it. They want you in that UI where they control the content discovery. Not to mention DRM protection.

edit: jealous, mine is scheduled for Monday


----------



## BillyClyde

trip1eX said:


> Those aren't glowing reviews. They aren't even reviews. Just announcements that it is out and they will have full reviews later.


The Forbes one is a review as he talks about his experience while he used it for a few days. The other one is more of an initial introduction as you say, but both at least with an optimistic tone if not glowing.


----------



## SnakeEyes

trip1eX said:


> Those aren't glowing reviews. They aren't even reviews. Just announcements that it is out and they will have full reviews later.


The Forbes link is but the writing isn't obvious that it is. There is obvious hands on comments toward the end.


----------



## BillyClyde

cwoody222 said:


> ......Wish I would have known it was FedEx, I would have paid extra to get it "on time".


I wouldn't have counted on that either. I paid for 2 day shipping and it said "Guaranteed Delivery Friday May 8, 2020".

Lo and behold TiVo decided to switch that to Ground shipping and when I got my email and also FedEx tracking info it said my delivery wasn't scheduled until Thursday May 14!!!

Needless to say I was furious because I wanted it before the Weekend to play with it. I called and made a serious complaint and the CSR told me that many people have called in about the same change of shipping BS, unbeknownst to everyone who tried to pay for expedited shipping!!! She said they're trying to contact FedEx to have them change the shipping type to 2 day. She also said I need to wait until after Friday to see if I do end up getting it, and if not then I have to call back to request a shipping refund! Ummmm, that's not the point lady!


----------



## trip1eX

BillyClyde said:


> The Forbes one is a review as he talks about his experience while he used it for a few days. The other one is more of an initial introduction as you say, but both at least with an optimistic tone if not glowing.





SnakeEyes said:


> The Forbes link is but the writing isn't obvious that it is. There is obvious hands on comments toward the end.


 Do you some of you really not know what a review is ? Both aren't even close to a review. A little nugget of hands on info in 1 article does not a review make. And all press releases are optimistic.


----------



## trip1eX

cybergrimes said:


> Nah it will have to launch the Netflix app, thats where Netflix wants it. They want you in that UI where they control the content discovery. Not to mention DRM protection.
> 
> edit: jealous, mine is scheduled for Monday


yes it has to launch the app but the show should start automatically. Maybe you will have to select your account first. At least this is how it works on Appletv.


----------



## trip1eX

Noelmel said:


> From what I read you won't have to search for a show, you add shows you like to watch list and it will play directly from the watch list. It won't launch Netflix and you won't see the Netflix logo. Not 100% on that but we shall see... mine arrives Saturday


well if it works like the Appletv you will see the Netflix logo, have to select your account, and if you hit the back button once you will be in the Netflix app. Hit it again and you are back in the ATV app.


----------



## schatham

I hope this has 30 second skip. One of the worse things about streaming is how FF works. Sometimes you can't even see the show progress as it FF.


----------



## EWiser

Netflix does not let their shows be linked out side of their application. So no Netflix shows will not be in any up next list.


----------



## EWiser

schatham said:


> I hope this has 30 second skip. One of the worse things about streaming is how FF works. Sometimes you can't even see the show progress as it FF.


Nope will not have skip of 30 seconds. Streaming services make more money selling you a no ad's version of their service.


----------



## BillyClyde

EWiser said:


> Netflix does not let their shows be linked out side of their application. *So no Netflix shows will not be in any up next list.*


Funny. My AppleTV shows Netflix programs in its Up Next section. Hmmmmm. 





EWiser said:


> Nope will not have skip of 30 seconds. Streaming services make more money selling you a no ad's version of their service.


Almost all of my apps/videos allow 30 sec skip in them. The only ones that don't are On Demand and Hulu that I can think of off the top of my head.


----------



## cybergrimes

BillyClyde said:


> Almost all of my apps/videos allow 30 sec skip in them. The only ones that don't are On Demand and Hulu that I can think of off the top of my head.


That's on a TiVo, there's no Android TV devices with 30 second skip buttons so who knows how every app will respect that button. I know Vudu for example doesn't give two Fs about the play/pause button because it's programmed for simple type remotes with the select/enter "middle of the navigation pad" button. I've had a few apps not care about FF/RW on my Harmony remote until the devs added support. That said, just for jumping ahead the program it would be awesome if most can use it...


----------



## cybergrimes

Getting more technical, the 2019 Nvidia Shield and some other devices use the "Dolby Multistream Decoder MS12" for transcoding Dolby Digital Plus content to regular Dolby Digital, specifically for users who have optical connected audio equipment. I wish there was a technical contact who could touch on this... I guess we'll find out soon enough.


----------



## troasti

Not sure if they are just guessing but...

TiVo enters the streaming market with a $50 Android TV-powered device, TiVo Stream 4K - TechCrunch

_"Thanks to its use of the Android TV platform, the TiVo Stream 4K also has access to thousands of Play Store apps for streaming, including Netflix, YouTube, Amazon Prime Video, Hulu, HBO, Disney+ and others."
_
I really need it to work with *Tablo*..


----------



## Player1138

Wait...so we can not access our Tivo Bolt (or other devices) recordings?

That is really too bad.


----------



## Mikeguy

Player1138 said:


> Wait...so we can not access our Tivo Bolt (or other devices) recordings?
> 
> That is really too bad.


Yep as to TiVo DVR recordings. Although noted as something to consider or some such by TiVo's CEO back in January, when news of the Stream 4K was announced.


----------



## Player1138

Mikeguy said:


> Yep as to TiVo DVR recordings. Although noted as something to consider or some such by TiVo's CEO back in January, when news of the Stream 4K was announced.


I would have totally bought 1-2 of them for TVs in my office and/ore bedroom if I could access my recordings. I guess maybe they have done the research and are seeing more and more people moving away from traditional cable and the need for a DVR.

Personally, I keep cable for live college football...until streaming can fix the delay I can not cut the cord.


----------



## Rikki_Rocket

BillyClyde said:


> Funny. My AppleTV shows Netflix programs in its Up Next section. Hmmmmm.
> 
> 
> 
> Almost all of my apps/videos allow 30 sec skip in them. The only ones that don't are On Demand and Hulu that I can think of off the top of my head.


Yes, there is a skip button on the remote for the TiVO Stream 4K - but as with TiVO DVRs it will only be on the shows that support it.


----------



## Cozmo85

BillyClyde said:


> Here are other great write ups with glowing reviews:
> 
> TiVo Stream 4K Gives You Everything You Need To Finally Cut The Cord
> 
> TiVo Stream 4K takes on Roku, Amazon Fire TV with $50 Android TV dongle


"reviews" PR pieces


----------



## sicariis

I want to get this and try it, and as a Youtube TV user, I'd be willing to try Sling, but their 50 hour DVR is a joke. I think I'll need to wait on the sidelines until either Sling adds more DVR capacity or TIVO adds more Live TV partners. If they already have Hulu integration, can't be that hard to also add Hulu Live for instance.


----------



## smark

sicariis said:


> I want to get this and try it, and as a Youtube TV user, I'd be willing to try Sling, but their 50 hour DVR is a joke. I think I'll need to wait on the sidelines until either Sling adds more DVR capacity or TIVO adds more Live TV partners. If they already have Hulu integration, can't be that hard to also add Hulu Live for instance.


May have to wait. Curious if it's a exclusivity agreement.


----------



## Joe3

Player1138 said:


> Wait...so we can not access our Tivo Bolt (or other devices) recordings?
> 
> That is really too bad.


If they allowed TiVo DVR access to this streamer, they could not force you to go to the competition (Sling) and pay another subscription to record. It makes perfect TiVo/Rovi sense, but not common business sense of a company trying to compete and and succeed. It smells of a sweatheart deal for Sling at the expense $$ of a TiVo opportunity to gain more customers to their existing business. It smells of corporate corruption.


----------



## Furmaniac

Mikeguy said:


> I haven't seen any discussion of TiVo's Recommendations feature on the Stream 4K--will be interesting to see if the feature fares better there than on TiVo TE4 DVRs.


I bought one but I really don't see any mention of it having wishlists. Perhaps you can put the name of an actor or address in and get different shows as you can on Roku, but Roku doesn't store your queries. I hope the TiVo does.
Wishlists also allow us to put keywords in from show descriptions, but I seriously doubt that TiVo will include that feature too. Too bad. I use Wishlists all the time. To me, that makes TiVo a TiVo, more than any other feature it has.


----------



## aaronwt

foghorn2 said:


> It is just an app, like Ive been saying but Dan thinks it takes over the Android UI. Hulu is surprising here, There Dan is right and looks like their clout got Hulu in there. The remote will be awesome as finally I will be able to channel up/down with Sling and Pluto with dedicated buttons.


Why is Hulu surprising on Android TV? It's been on my 2015 Sony Android UHD TV all this time, and on my 2017 Shield TVs too.


----------



## cwoody222

Joe3 said:


> If they allowed TiVo DVR access to this streamer, they could not force you to go to the competition (Sling) and pay another subscription to record. It makes perfect TiVo/Rovi sense, but not common business sense of a company trying to compete and and succeed. It smells of a sweatheart deal for Sling at the expense $$ of a TiVo opportunity to gain more customers to their existing business. It smells of corporate corruption.


Or maybe it was just not feasible to squeeze Mini functionally into a device 1/3 of the price and size?


----------



## aaronwt

trip1eX said:


> well if it works like the Appletv you will see the Netflix logo, have to select your account, and if you hit the back button once you will be in the Netflix app. Hit it again and you are back in the ATV app.


I would think it works like my shield TVs. There is a row that shows content I'm currently watching. So if it's a show on Netflix, I select it and Netflix opens up to the page of the current episode I'm on.

That's what I typically use to keep track of streaming shows I'm in the middle of watching. So the TiVo Stream 4k should at least do that since it's also Android and hopefully improves on it.


----------



## Mike5454

I ordered overnight, I know crazy but of course they shipped via ground. I too can not use sling due to no locals and outside of antenna use. I texted support and I got two answers, one said I can’t use YouTube TV unless I subscribe to sling and the other said of course I can use YouTube tv but they were unsure if it would work with the guide.


----------



## Mikeguy

Furmaniac said:


> I bought one but I really don't see any mention of it having wishlists. Perhaps you can put the name of an actor or address in and get different shows as you can on Roku, but Roku doesn't store your queries. I hope the TiVo does.
> Wishlists also allow us to put keywords in from show descriptions, but I seriously doubt that TiVo will include that feature too. Too bad. I use Wishlists all the time. To me, that makes TiVo a TiVo, more than any other feature it has.


I think that we're talking different things--I was referring to the Stream 4K recommending other shows, etc. that you might like to see, without additional input from you, similar to the TiVo DVR's Suggestions (well, at least under the earlier TiVo DVR user interface, TE3, where this feature actually works)--from the Stream 4K marketing info., the Stream is supposed to be able to make recommendations like that.


----------



## BillyClyde

cybergrimes said:


> That's on a TiVo, there's no Android TV devices with 30 second skip buttons so who knows how every app will respect that button. I know Vudu for example doesn't give two Fs about the play/pause button because it's programmed for simple type remotes with the select/enter "middle of the navigation pad" button. I've had a few apps not care about FF/RW on my Harmony remote until the devs added support. That said, just for jumping ahead the program it would be awesome if most can use it...


No, I'm not talking about a TiVo Remote. See my response below.......



Rikki_Rocket said:


> Yes, there is a skip button on the remote for the TiVO Stream 4K - but as with TiVO DVRs it will only be on the shows that support it.


I'm talking about skipping using the streamer remote's (AppleTV, FireTV, Shield, Harmony Elite, Roku, etc.) center ring's right side and clicking it in many apps such as Channels DVR and tons of others I use all the time.

As an aside, Here is a video from a Beta Tester:


----------



## Mikeguy

sicariis said:


> I want to get this and try it, and as a Youtube TV user, I'd be willing to try Sling, but their 50 hour DVR is a joke. I think I'll need to wait on the sidelines until either Sling adds more DVR capacity or TIVO adds more Live TV partners. If they already have Hulu integration, can't be that hard to also add Hulu Live for instance.


Of course, the DVR capacity problem would be a non-issue if TiVo simply had linked its streaming device back to its own DVRs, rather than only to a competitor's. What a silly concept, however.


----------



## cybergrimes

BillyClyde said:


> No, I'm not talking about a TiVo Remote. See my response below.......
> 
> I'm talking about skipping using the streamer remote's (AppleTV, FireTV, Shield, Harmony Elite, Roku, etc.) center ring's right side and clicking it in many apps such as Channels DVR and tons of others I use all the time.


Wait so you're not talking about the literal "Skip" button"? Clicking right on the remote... so basically the streaming version of "fast forward"?


----------



## BillyClyde

cybergrimes said:


> Wait so you're not talking about the literal "Skip" button"? Clicking right on the remote... so basically the streaming version of "fast forward"?


Yes. If you just click once it jumps 30 secs. If you click and hold it scans through the video like FF. I get the same results using the AppleTV remote's trackpad or the circular ring on all my various streamer remotes.

This is why the Stream 4K's Remote doesn't have a FF/RW button. You use the circular ring for all of it. It's mentioned in one of my posted links or videos too.


----------



## cybergrimes

BillyClyde said:


> Yes. If you just click once it jumps 30 secs. If you click and hold it scans through the video like FF. I get the same results using the AppleTV remote's trackpad or the circular ring on all my various streamer remotes.
> 
> This is why the Stream 4K's Remote doesn't have a FF/RW button. You use the circular ring for all of it. It's mentioned in one of my posted links or videos too.


I think the replies threw this off a bit, it looks like EWiser might have thought you were talking about ad skipping.
Android TV fast forwarding is pretty similar to every other streaming device but at the end of the day it's all on how the app developers program it... some apps skip 10 seconds, some 30...
That's the key here, this is Android TV, I'm confident TiVo hasn't done any high customization of the overall experience otherwise the TiVo bit wouldn't be inside its own app.

edit: it actually says it in that image you shared "Availability of playback control depends on the show and streaming app.", I can't believe we're discussing fast forwarding...


----------



## trip1eX

aaronwt said:


> I would think it works like my shield TVs. There is a row that shows content I'm currently watching. So if it's a show on Netflix, I select it and Netflix opens up to the page of the current episode I'm on.
> 
> That's what I typically use to keep track of streaming shows I'm in the middle of watching. So the TiVo Stream 4k should at least do that since it's also Android and hopefully improves on it.


Yeah I assumed that was a given. 

I'm talking about what happens in addition to that. How it loads and whether you're in the app or not in the universal UI (AppleTV app) of the ATV.


----------



## mdavej

There seems to be a lot of speculation and guessing about how the Sling TV app is going to work on this device. You can try the Sing TV app on any other device any time and get immediate answers to all your questions. Ffwd/Rew, skip, etc. are all going to work exactly the same. Tivo only adds window dressing and the universal search engine.


----------



## trip1eX

sicariis said:


> I want to get this and try it, and as a Youtube TV user, I'd be willing to try Sling, but their 50 hour DVR is a joke. I think I'll need to wait on the sidelines until either Sling adds more DVR capacity or TIVO adds more Live TV partners. If they already have Hulu integration, can't be that hard to also add Hulu Live for instance.


on the positive side, the plus about the STream and YTTV is it has a button for Google ASsistant which is well integrated into YTTV.


----------



## BillyClyde

cybergrimes said:


> I think the replies threw this off a bit, it looks like EWiser might have thought you were talking about ad skipping.
> Android TV fast forwarding is pretty similar to every other streaming device but at the end of the day it's all on how the app developers program it... some apps skip 10 seconds, some 30...
> That's the key here, this is Android TV, I'm confident TiVo hasn't done any high customization of the overall experience otherwise the TiVo bit wouldn't be inside its own app.
> 
> edit: it actually says it in that image you shared "Availability of playback control depends on the show and streaming app.", I can't believe we're discussing fast forwarding...


I never said that about it. He said 30 second skip wasn't supported and I said it can be done, and it is. He's clearly talking about streaming services.......



EWiser said:


> Nope will not have skip of 30 seconds. Streaming services make more money selling you a no ad's version of their service.


----------



## trip1eX

smark said:


> May have to wait. Curious if it's a exclusivity agreement.


I think some providers like a google/YTTV won't participate. They want control of search and the data themselves.


----------



## BillyClyde

List of apps being deep linked into the Stream 4K app:









This shows that the app should eventually be made available on the Google Play Store:
















Also, in the YouTube video I posted a few posts up, I forgot to mention that the beta tester said that the AirTV2 OTA tuner won't integrate into the SlingTV guide in the Stream 4K app section, yet. You can access your local antenna channels with it in the regular SlingTV app in the Android section though. This sucks for WAF and I just bought one.


----------



## cybergrimes

BillyClyde said:


> I never said that about it. He said 30 second skip wasn't supported and I said it can be done, and it is. He's clearly talking about streaming services.......


Yeah, we're all talking about streaming services. That's a given, it's a streaming device...
He's talking about streaming services not supporting skipping of ads because they want to sell you a ad free version. That's the context.


----------



## smark

BillyClyde said:


> List of apps being deep linked into the Stream 4K app:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This shows that the app should eventually be made available on the Google Play Store:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, in the YouTube video I posted a few posts up, I forgot to mention that the beta tester said that the AirTV2 OTA tuner won't integrate into the SlingTV guide in the Stream 4K app section, yet. You can access your local antenna channels with it in the regular SlingTV app in the Android section though. This sucks for WAF and I just bought one.


That sucks. You'd think they'd at least add Locast in for locals for integration.


----------



## trip1eX

BillyClyde said:


> I never said that about it. He said 30 second skip wasn't supported and I said it can be done, and it is. He's clearly talking about streaming services.......


It can be done, but it's up to the app. A YTTV app only skips forward/backward 15 seconds. I doubt that changes on the STream.

Now maybe when Tivo is talking about "supported apps" it means those apps all conform to specifications dictated by the STream app to provide a consistent UI experience. That or it is just a launch exclusivity dealio.


----------



## BillyClyde

cybergrimes said:


> Yeah, we're all talking about streaming services. That's a given, it's a streaming device...
> He's talking about streaming services not supporting skipping of ads because they want to sell you a ad free version. That's the context.


He made a generalized statement in response to someone asking about 30 sec skip since they usually can't see video when doing a scrubbed type FF operation with streaming apps. The person who asked the question had nothing to do with ads. If he mistook the question that's on him and my response stands as fact based on exactly what was written........



schatham said:


> I hope this has 30 second skip. One of the worse things about streaming is how FF works. Sometimes you can't even see the show progress as it FF.





EWiser said:


> Nope will not have skip of 30 seconds. Streaming services make more money selling you a no ad's version of their service.





BillyClyde said:


> .....Almost all of my apps/videos allow 30 sec skip in them. The only ones that don't are On Demand and Hulu that I can think of off the top of my head.


----------



## trip1eX

cybergrimes said:


> Yeah, we're all talking about streaming services. That's a given, it's a streaming device...
> He's talking about streaming services not supporting skipping of ads because they want to sell you a ad free version. That's the context.


There is a distinction to be made between streaming services too:

All the major cabletv over the internet services let you skip ads of recordings. But they each have their own amount of time that is skipped fwd/bck with 1 button press. They don't let you skip ads in their on-demand content.

The direct to consumer on-demand ad supported services like Hulu or CBS All Access don't let you skip commercials.

Anyone who has used Netflix knows how ff/rw through a show works on every streaming app. AS you said I can't believe we're talking about this.


----------



## mattyro7878

Will the Tivo-Comcast war prevent the Xfinity Stream beta from being available?


----------



## trip1eX

mattyro7878 said:


> Will the Tivo-Comcast war prevent the Xfinity Stream beta from being available?


Is it in the Google Play store?


----------



## stuart628

One question i have as I dont have a android streamer (well osprey box, but I dont use that) is single sign on...do we think this box will do single sign on..either through tivo or android tv


----------



## smark

stuart628 said:


> One question i have as I dont have a android streamer (well osprey box, but I dont use that) is single sign on...do we think this box will do single sign on..either through tivo or android tv


For cable providers?


----------



## mattyro7878

trip1eX said:


> Is it in the Google Play store?


It sure is!! So anything in that Google Play store will be available on Stream4k ? Well, anything has its limits; Twitter vand Craigslist are in there but the Stream4k wont do those. The reviews I have been seeing are positive. I havent seen any "this is nothing special" or "Tivo disappoints" . If only it could communicate with our DVRs. That has not been ruled out...yet.


----------



## trip1eX

stuart628 said:


> One question i have as I dont have a android streamer (well osprey box, but I dont use that) is single sign on...do we think this box will do single sign on..either through tivo or android tv


good question. then the other question is will it work with your cable provider of choice and what apps will it work with. well at least those were always questions in the past. Maybe support is much more universal now.


----------



## stuart628

smark said:


> For cable providers?


Well any provider like youtube tv, spectrum, att tv, directv any of them....single sign on is something I Have grown to love especially when setting up new boxes ( I have 6 tv and a theater in my house so sign ons become a pain)


----------



## aaronwt

stuart628 said:


> One question i have as I dont have a android streamer (well osprey box, but I dont use that) is single sign on...do we think this box will do single sign on..either through tivo or android tv


I've never been able to do single sign in on any device. Since I have different email addresses used for different streaming services.


----------



## stuart628

aaronwt said:


> I've never been able to do single sign in on any device. Since I have different email addresses used for different streaming services.


thats not the way single sign on works, for example on apple tv I put my tv provider login in and it takes that and does auto logins to all my apps like espn, hgtv, fox sports (or 90% of them). So you would just use your providers login email and it does the rest...Apple tv and firesticks do this and do it well....I am not sure about android tv and I left roku platform a while ago.


----------



## aaronwt

stuart628 said:


> thats not the way single sign on works, for example on apple tv I put my tv provider login in and it takes that and does auto logins to all my apps like espn, hgtv, fox sports (or 90% of them). So you would just use your providers login email and it does the rest...Apple tv and firesticks do this and do it well....I am not sure about android tv and I left roku platform a while ago.


I see. I don't use those apps since they have commercials.


----------



## Steveknj

cwoody222 said:


> For me, it's about letting me "favorite" my streaming shows so I can see them all in one place. I still watch a lot of broadcast so I see those shows on my TiVo My Shows page. I don't use my TiVo Roamio's "bookmark" feature for streaming shows because so many new shows and episodes take FOREVER to show up on TiVo. Plus, I don't really use my TiVo for streaming. I use a FireTV Cube on my 4K TV, my Vizio app for Netflix (for Dolby that the Fire doesn't do) and then a Roku on my non-4K TV.
> 
> So if I don't "see" the current shows I'm watching across streaming services, I forget about them. I don't usually binge and I'll find myself starting a show on a streaming service and then forgetting about it because it's "buried" within the app.
> 
> Sometimes I even forget which streaming service has which shows so even when I remember, I have to hunt and peck to find them.
> 
> If the Stream 4K lets me keep handy links to all my currently watching streaming shows front-and-center and front-of-mind, that will make me happy.
> 
> The fact that it's 4K and has Dolby means it gets to live on my main TV, too.


I went ahead and ordered it. I'll see how I like it. It's only $50 right? If it does what you describe, it should become my go-to.


----------



## smark

aaronwt said:


> I've never been able to do single sign in on any device. Since I have different email addresses used for different streaming services.


This is from the cable or TV provider to authorize individual channel apps. Apple TVs for example support single sign on for DirecTV so you don't have to enter you DirecTV credentials everytime. YouTubeTV does not.


----------



## babsonnexus

BillyClyde said:


> As an aside, Here is a video from a Beta Tester:


Some notes from this video:


:handok: They released this before the Beta was officially over. Congrats, we all just paid to be late beta testers! I mean, we knew that, but now it's official.


:thumbsup: There is a USB-C port on the side that currently does nothing, but there is a lot that could be done with that both officially (ethernet port, direct connection to external HD for local recordings, etc...) and unofficially (side-loading).


:thumbsdown: Integration with all apps is not there yet. The reviewer specially mentions AppleTV not being integrated. Again, you can load it, but you have to manage it separately. I believe the big ones (Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, Disney+, CBS All Access, HBO Go, etc...) should be OK, but there will be Apps that just aren't integrated out of the gate. They could come later, but the more specialized the app and the smaller the userbase, the less likely this will be.


:thumbsdown: Number buttons do nothing right now except allow you to type numbers in usernames/passwords. The Sling channels don't have numbers, and it appears you cannot resort them alphabetically yet (only by "category"). I don't know if this will change when Pluto gets integrated into the Guide, but right now using the Pluto app the reviewer could not just type in a channel number.


:thumbsdown: If you have an AirTV to watch local channels on your Sling, they will not show up on the Guide (YET!). You have to use the Sling App directly to view those channels. This also applies to recording from those channels. Although the video didn't mention it, I believe this means you would have to go into the Sling app to see your local recordings instead of just going to the bookmark menu, but I'd need someone else to confirm that. This makes me glad I'm already going the HDHomeRun + Plex or Channels DVR route.


:thumbsup: It came with Downloader pre-installed, so he could side-load a bunch of stuff. Some of it is not perfect (like AT&T TV Now), but "it gets the job done". Again, they won't be integrated, but they'll be there. To me, this means that we can sideload the TiVo Android App and access our boxes that way. Can't wait to try this out!!


:thumbsup: The beta tester like it so much he actually bought a second one! He compares it as close to a NVidia Shield.


:handok: It is very close to being the one-stop shop it promises to be. So long as updates are coming, it can get there. If not, it is still a very good Android TV stick with Chromecast.


----------



## Steveknj

I've never had an Android TV device, but can you install other Android apps on these devices? For example, I have the DirecTV app on my Android phone (as I sub to SAT), could that show up on here? I'm thinking of a backup if I have a rainfade situation.


----------



## cybergrimes

Steveknj said:


> I've never had an Android TV device, but can you install other Android apps on these devices? For example, I have the DirecTV app on my Android phone (as I sub to SAT), could that show up on here? I'm thinking of a backup if I have a rainfade situation.


If there's an Android TV compatible version of the app available in the Play Store.
A phone version of an app could be sideloaded with an APK but probably wouldn't respond to your remote since it's expecting touch input.


----------



## smark

Steveknj said:


> I've never had an Android TV device, but can you install other Android apps on these devices? For example, I have the DirecTV app on my Android phone (as I sub to SAT), could that show up on here? I'm thinking of a backup if I have a rainfade situation.


You generally can side load anything. One thing that I look forward to is the ease of installing a VPN app so that one can get around blackouts.


----------



## trip1eX

Steveknj said:


> I've never had an Android TV device, but can you install other Android apps on these devices? For example, I have the DirecTV app on my Android phone (as I sub to SAT), could that show up on here? I'm thinking of a backup if I have a rainfade situation.


YOu can always cast it to your tv as the STream is a Chromecast ...unless that capability is somehow blocked for that app if that is possible.


----------



## cybergrimes

I can see the DirecTV app is not compatible with any of my Android TV devices from the Play website but there is a Dish Anywhere app. Switch it up @Steveknj !


----------



## EWiser

Yes I was talking about ad skipping. 
Netflix hasn't let another apple to link their shows outside of their own application 
Why Netflix Won't Be Part of Apple TV

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## cwoody222

babsonnexus said:


> Some notes from this video:
> 
> 
> :handok: They released this before the Beta was officially over. Congrats, we all just paid to be late beta testers! I mean, we knew that, but now it's official.
> 
> :thumbsdown: Integration with all apps is not there yet. The reviewer specially mentions AppleTV not being integrated. Again, you can load it, but you have to manage it separately. I believe the big ones (Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, Disney+, CBS All Access, HBO Go, etc...) should be OK, but there will be Apps that just aren't integrated out of the gate. They could come later, but the more specialized the app and the smaller the userbase, the less likely this will be.


it's not unusual for a product to be released while testing is still ongoing. Some products NEVER stop testing.

iOS testing continues right thru releases, too.

As for AppleTV+ I didn't hear him say it was on the device but not integrated. He just said it wasn't available.

Being an Android device, that is not surprising.


----------



## dadrepus

So got my notice from Tivo that my unit has shipped but then I check Fedex and it says that only a label was generated. Typical on-line business tactic that tries to make you think things are shipped when in fact they are not.


----------



## dadrepus

cwoody222 said:


> As for AppleTV+ I didn't hear him say it was on the device but not integrated. He just said it wasn't available.
> 
> Being an Android device, that is not surprising.


Nothing on Apple tv I care to watch.


----------



## cwoody222

After dealing with two unrelated FedEx missed deliveries and speaking to a manager today, I have close to zero confidence my TiVo Stream 4k will arrive Saturday like it’s supposed to.

The FedEx manager confirmed that the delivery updates we can see on their website are not as accurate as what their internal systems show.

I have two items that were due to be delivered yesterday and he admitted they are still sitting on a tractor trailer waiting to be unloaded at my local distro center.

So, “out for delivery” doesn’t necessarily mean that.

Yea, that’s messed up.

So maybe I’ll have my new TiVo toy next week sometime.

And while not their fault, I hope Tivo understands their shipping partner is helping to ruin their customer experience.


----------



## pfiagra

I think the TCF moderators have something against the Stream 4K based on the forum being stuck after the Premiere forum.

Or maybe they will move this forum before the Edge forum if it lives up to TiVo’s hype.


----------



## Noelmel

EWiser said:


> Yes I was talking about ad skipping.
> Netflix hasn't let another apple to link their shows outside of their own application
> Why Netflix Won't Be Part of Apple TV
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


The website says and all their videos show Netflix is integrated with this. It works similar to how one pass does now

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mattyro7878

mdavej said:


> Both of them? Of course. Took all of 15 seconds. Kind of scratching my head at why you can't check for yourself.
> 
> The moment Tivo puts their app in the Play store is the moment they kill the Stream 4k. But they have done dumber things in the past, so I guess anything is possible.


Why? I do not understand.


----------



## mdavej

mattyro7878 said:


> Why? I do not understand.


Why buy a $50-$70 Stream 4k when you could run the app for free on the hardware you already have? Unless the remote is worth $50 to you, what does the Stream hardware do that nobody else does?


----------



## Mikeguy

pfiagra said:


> I think the TCF moderators have something against the Stream 4K based on the forum being stuck after the Premiere forum.
> 
> Or maybe they will move this forum before the Edge forum if it lives up to TiVo's hype.


It's listed right after the TiVo DVR sub-forums (perhaps because DVRs still are TiVo's main line of business and get the most attention here?) and before the TiVo Mini sub-forum. Does that make you feel inferior?


----------



## mdavej

Steveknj said:


> I've never had an Android TV device, but can you install other Android apps on these devices? For example, I have the DirecTV app on my Android phone (as I sub to SAT), could that show up on here? I'm thinking of a backup if I have a rainfade situation.


Casting aside, DirecTV has purposely prohibited you from watching on a streaming device so they can keep collecting $7/month/screen. If you want that capability, they want you to switch to AT&T TV, where the profit margin is so much higher they don't miss that $7.


----------



## BillyClyde

mdavej said:


> .....The moment Tivo puts their app in the Play store is the moment they kill the Stream 4k. But they have done dumber things in the past, so I guess anything is possible.





mattyro7878 said:


> Why? I do not understand.





mdavej said:


> Why buy a $50-$70 Stream 4k when you could run the app for free on the hardware you already have? Unless the remote is worth $50 to you, what does the Stream hardware do that nobody else does?


Well, sounds like they're going to be stupid at some point then.....









I bet once they get the Stream 4K app to integrate with your TiVo DVR is when this app will be released in the Play Store. At a cost of course.


----------



## shwru980r

babsonnexus said:


> Some notes from this video:
> 
> :thumbsup: It came with Downloader pre-installed, so he could side-load a bunch of stuff. Some of it is not perfect (like AT&T TV Now), but "it gets the job done". Again, they won't be integrated, but they'll be there. To me, this means that we can sideload the TiVo Android App and access our boxes that way. Can't wait to try this out!!


I side loaded the Tivo Android app on a Mi Android box and I couldn't log in to use it.


----------



## shwru980r

The gimmick is a proprietary Tivo app to aggregate other apps and provide a unified guide and search interface to find shows and launch the corresponding app.


----------



## mdavej

shwru980r said:


> I side loaded the Tivo Android app on a Mi Android box and I couldn't log in to use it.


I've hit the same roadblocks side loading other Android phone/mobile apps on Andriod TV boxes. The way around is to to connect a bluetooth keyboard and an app called Mouse Toggle. Those will allow the navigation and data entry to log in. However, after you do log in, you're still left with a picture formatted for a phone and clunky navigation.


----------



## mdavej

BillyClyde said:


> Well, sounds like they're going to be stupid at some point then.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bet once they get the Stream 4K app to integrate with your TiVo DVR is when this app will be released in the Play Store. At a cost of course.


I'm pleasantly surprised to see "yet".


----------



## morac

So I’ve been following this and now that it’s out I don’t know if it pays for me to get it. I already have an Apple TV 4K, Roku, Fire TV and my Sony Bravia is an Android TV, so basically the only thing I’d get with this is the Tivo app right?

My go to device is the Apple TV for nearly everything. Roku I only use for Comcast. I never use the Fire TV. My Sony I use for casting YouTube and occasionally watching FandangoNow (for their IMAX enhanced titles). 

Does it make any sense for me to get this? I can afford it, but it will probably end up gathering dust.


----------



## Rikki_Rocket

morac said:


> So I've been following this and now that it's out I don't know if it pays for me to get it. I already have an Apple TV 4K, Roku, Fire TV and my Sony Bravia is an Android TV, so basically the only thing I'd get with this is the Tivo app right?
> 
> My go to device is the Apple TV for nearly everything. Roku I only use for Comcast. I never use the Fire TV. My Sony I use for casting YouTube and occasionally watching FandangoNow (for their IMAX enhanced titles).
> 
> Does it make any sense for me to get this? I can afford it, but it will probably end up gathering dust.


You'd be buying it for 1) the seamless experience of bringing all the shows you like together so your don't have to hunt through all those streaming services to find the ones you like 2) integration with Sling in TiVO guide for easier experience 3) Better remote than all of the devices you mentioned.

Apple TV is ok but this will be better.

TiVO is saying they are "Fixing TV...again"! It is your other devices that will gather dust - not the TiVO Stream 4K!

Please consider our cult and buy two of them like everyone else in the forum.


----------



## Mikeguy

Rikki_Rocket said:


> Please consider our cult and buy two of them like everyone else in the forum.


Perhaps when TiVo adds a TiVo app so that the Stream 4K will integrate with TiVo DVRs, as it should have from the beginning . . . .


----------



## Rikki_Rocket

Mikeguy said:


> Perhaps when TiVo adds a TiVo app so that the Stream 4K will integrate with TiVo DVRs, as it should have from the beginning . . . .


That would be nice but then won't everyone who bought a TiVo Mini or Mini VOX be mad? They would have to break off into a separate mini cult.

P.S. typically the followers do not question or think for themselves. Cults are funny like that.


----------



## mrizzo80

Rikki_Rocket said:


> You'd be buying it for 1) the seamless experience of bringing all the shows you like together so your don't have to hunt through all those streaming services to find the ones you like 2) integration with Sling in TiVO guide for easier experience 3) Better remote than all of the devices you mentioned.
> 
> Apple TV is ok but this will be better.
> 
> TiVO is saying they are "Fixing TV...again"! It is your other devices that will gather dust - not the TiVO Stream 4K!
> 
> Please consider our cult and buy two of them like everyone else in the forum.


As they say, every rose has its thorn. I expect the poor metadata to be that for this device.

And when I'm waiting 2 weeks for a new season of some streaming show to pop into OnePass, that's when I'll talk dirty to the 4K.

I will probably end up buying the new Apple TV when it comes out. But after more than a decade of happy usage, I won't forget you, TiVo.


----------



## EWiser

I have an Apple TV and a TiVo mini this device is really not solving any problems for someone who has already been streaming for years. I was hoping for the original app TIVO announced for streaming device to access their recordings. When that was abandoned I bought the TiVo mini and moved on. Don’t really trust the company called TiVo anymore to do what they say.


----------



## BillyClyde

Rikki_Rocket said:


> You'd be buying it for 1) the seamless experience of bringing all the shows you like together so your don't have to hunt through all those streaming services to find the ones you like 2) integration with Sling in TiVO guide for easier experience 3) Better remote than all of the devices you mentioned.
> 
> Apple TV is ok but this will be better.
> 
> TiVO is saying they are "Fixing TV...again"! It is your other devices that will gather dust - not the TiVO Stream 4K!
> 
> Please consider our cult and buy two of them like everyone else in the forum.


@Rikki_Rocket, big Poison fan, or an actual member of the band just here for _Nothin' but a Good Time_?



mrizzo80 said:


> As they say, *every rose has its thorn*. I expect the poor metadata to be that for this device.
> 
> And when I'm waiting 2 weeks for a new season of some streaming show to pop into OnePass, that's when I'll *talk dirty to *the 4K.
> 
> I will probably end up buying the new Apple TV when it comes out. But after more than a decade of happy usage, *I won't forget you, *TiVo.


----------



## Mikeguy

Rikki_Rocket said:


> That would be nice but then won't everyone who bought a TiVo Mini or Mini VOX be mad? They would have to break off into a separate mini cult.


That indeed is a point of consideration, including for TiVo: the possible loss of Mini sales to a Stream 4K or to a streaming device app. In fact, because of this, I was a bit surprised when I first heard that TiVo was developing streamer apps. But there also is a point of differentiation: the quality of the result from a Mini likely would remain superior to that from an app, and an app likely wouldn't have all the show control capabilities of a Mini.


----------



## cwoody222

Mikeguy said:


> That indeed is a point of consideration, including for TiVo: the possible loss of Mini sales to a Stream 4K or to a streaming device app. In fact, because of this, I was a bit surprised when I first heard that TiVo was developing streamer apps. But there also is a point of differentiation: the quality of the result from a Mini likely would remain superior to that from an app, and an app likely wouldn't have all the show control capabilities of a Mini.


If the Stream 4K DID allow TiVo shows to be streamed the complaints would be just what you say - video quality, lousy trick play, no QuickSkip, no managing recordings, etc.


----------



## aaronwt

Sweet! My second TiVo Stream 4k got pushed up from Sunday to Saturday for delivery. So I will hopefully get both delivered on Saturday. Assuming they deliver it to the correct address. Which is what I always worry about for something like this.


----------



## aaronwt

cwoody222 said:


> If the Stream 4K DID allow TiVo shows to be streamed the complaints would be just what you say - video quality, lousy trick play, no QuickSkip, no managing recordings, etc.


You mean all the things I've been able to do on my phone and tablets for years? It worked fine when they had the beta app for Roku or Fire TV.(I don't remember which one it was) But everything did get converted to 720P by the Bolt or Roamio Pro or old TiVo stream, if I remember correctly. But since the FiOS video quality and the DC OTA video quality is crap, it really wasn't a big deal on a 65" TV.


----------



## zyzzx

aaronwt said:


> Sweet! My second TiVo Stream 4k got pushed up from Sunday to Saturday for delivery. So I will hopefully get both delivered on Saturday. Assuming they deliver it to the correct address. Which is what I always worry about for something like this.


Same here. My Sunday FedEx delivery is now a Saturday delivery.


----------



## GBK33

I paid for overnight shipping and am getting screwed. It shipped Wednesday afternoon and is scheduled for Saturday.


----------



## Steveknj

Still Sunday for me....I guess I get no love *sniff*


----------



## cwoody222

aaronwt said:


> You mean all the things I've been able to do on my phone and tablets for years? It worked fine when they had the beta app for Roku or Fire TV.(I don't remember which one it was) But everything did get converted to 720P by the Bolt or Roamio Pro or old TiVo stream, if I remember correctly. But since the FiOS video quality and the DC OTA video quality is crap, it really wasn't a big deal on a 65" TV.


Trick play on the apps aren't nearly as good as on the Mini, which is indistinguishable from the host Roamio. And no Quick Skip.

I also don't see a down res to 720p on a device called the Stream 4k to go over well either.

i never used the FireTV beta app but I've heard it was awful.

I just don't think this tiny little $50 dongle would do any justice to a decent experience of watching locally recorded programs like the Mini delivers.


----------



## cwoody222

Steveknj said:


> Still Sunday for me....I guess I get no love *sniff*


Still Saturday here but I fully expect FedEx to show up Monday or Tuesday.


----------



## smark

Mine came today as was shown. Though Ft. Worth to Colorado isn't too far.


----------



## aaronwt

cwoody222 said:


> Trick play on the apps aren't nearly as good as on the Mini, which is indistinguishable from the host Roamio. And no Quick Skip.
> 
> I also don't see a down res to 720p on a device called the Stream 4k to go over well either.
> 
> i never used the FireTV beta app but I've heard it was awful.
> 
> I just don't think this tiny little $50 dongle would do any justice to a decent experience of watching locally recorded programs like the Mini delivers.


it depends on the quality of the recordings. Around here Comcast, FiOS, and DC OTA looks terrible. So sending 720P is not a big deal. Heck Comcast down converts all their content to 720P anyway.

But my 2160P UHD recordings from FiOS would look terrible downconverted to 720P. Their two UHD channels are the only thing on FiOS that has decent quality now.


----------



## BillyClyde

GBK33 said:


> I paid for overnight shipping and am getting screwed. It shipped Wednesday afternoon and is scheduled for Saturday.


I paid for two day shipping that said it was guaranteed to arrive today. Needless to say it's not. TiVo for God knows why and without asking my approval, changed it to Ground shipping yet kept my extra money! It shows estimated to arrive next damned Wednesday!!! 



cwoody222 said:


> .......I just don't think this tiny little $50 dongle would do any justice to a decent experience of watching locally recorded programs like the Mini delivers.


I bet when used as a Channels DVR Client, you're able to use the "Original" quality setting where it'll play back the original resolution and frame rate up to 1080 HD. Not sure why it can't do this for TiVo DVR recordings, but I think I did read @Dan203 post something about it being a limitation of the host stream device, in other words the original TiVo Stream, Roamio, Bolt, Edge, etc. can only convert and stream at 720p. If so, then it's not the dongle's fault it won't play higher than 720p.

If anyone has an S4K yet who also uses Channels DVR, can you test this? I see no reason why it wouldn't work, at least in home.


----------



## Rikki_Rocket

BillyClyde said:


> @Rikki_Rocket, big Poison fan, or an actual member of the band just here for _Nothin' but a Good Time?_





mrizzo80 said:


> As they say, *every rose has its thorn*. I expect the poor metadata to be that for this device.
> 
> And when I'm waiting 2 weeks for a new season of some streaming show to pop into OnePass, that's when *I'll talk dirty to *the 4K.
> 
> I will probably end up buying the new Apple TV when it comes out. But after more than a decade of happy usage,* I won't forget you*, TiVo.


Guys, I didn't catch all of the Poison song references - thanks for being fans - you guys give me _Something to Believe In.
*@mrrizzo80* - Apple TV No Way! If I had one of those in my house I would be like look what the cat dragged in._


----------



## aaronwt

I see someone on Reddit, in the TiVo section, said that their Chrome Ultra Ethernet adapter works with their TiVo Stream 4K. So that should be good news for the people that want to have a wired connection with it.


----------



## JeffInDFW

Does anyone know how to program the stream 4k remote to control my TV? Samsung

Input, power, channel, volume.


----------



## JeffInDFW

I just set mine up an hour ago, so here are a few first impressions/observations:

It is fast. 

You can go to the Play Store and load YouTube TV, CBS All Access, etc. BUT, there is no integration that I've found with the Tivo Stream App.

Disney+ is integrated with the Tivo Stream App, but when I search for any Disney+ movies, the Tivo Stream App finds it, but shows it is available on Prime Video only. I tried 3 different Disney movies that I know are on Disney+, and none of them showed up as available on Disney+.

I use YouTube TV (not Sling), so I am disappointed in the "Tivo Stream App" itself. The guide has nothing but the crap channels from Tivo's channel (its a lot like Pluto TV). The only use I"ve found for the app so far is to search for tv shows I like and adding them to "My Shows" and then I can watch them on any service instead of having to search each app. I'm still playing with this, so opinions WILL change as I play with it.

On the main screen, I like that it lists all the apps across the top where I can go directly to Netflix, or YouTube TV or whatever. THEN, scrolling down, it has each of those same apps listed on the left side of the screen and content from that app/service listed out to the right. SO....I can move down to YouTube TV and look to the right of the logo and it shows me "ESPN", "CNN", "NBC5", etc. You click on CNN and it goes straight to CNN on YouTube TV! On Disney+, it has a ton of the movies (there is one line for recommendations and another line for watchlist) showing. You click on the movie, and it goes straight to that movie.

The remote feels really great. 

The search function has been very sluggish a few times, and blazing fast other times.

Tivo Stream App crashed twice when going to it from main screen.

Picture quality for some reason is better on the Tivo Stream 4K than my Xbox One on the YouTube TV app.

So, there you go guys. Disappointed in the "Unified Guide" since I don't have SlingTV. I really wish they would have partnered with YouTube TV instead since they give unlimited cloud DVR. I'll add more if something big comes up. I am now on my way upstairs to install one of these on my wifes TV in the bedroom. BTW, setup is very easy. I hope everyone gets theirs soon!


----------



## Rikki_Rocket

*@JeffInDFW* - Thank you for posting your first impressions. I'm very glad to hear about the excellent picture quality, it seems like TiVo really focused on that.

P.S. - Don't let the wife trap you into doing something else around the house tonight. March on Soldier! You have almost completed your mission!


----------



## mdavej

JeffInDFW said:


> I really wish they would have partnered with YouTube TV instead since they give unlimited cloud DVR


I don't think Google will be partnering with anybody:
Google's next streaming device will shake up the Android TV world


----------



## leiff

aaronwt said:


> I see someone on Reddit, in the TiVo section, said that their Chrome Ultra Ethernet adapter works with their TiVo Stream 4K. So that should be good news for the people that want to have a wired connection with it.


 Why is that ethernet adapter particularly affordable as compared to other ethernet adapters?


----------



## cherry ghost

My scheduled delivery was for today all day yesterday and today but it just switched to “pending.” I think it got late and the guy wanted to go home. Oh well.


----------



## CMH

cherry ghost said:


> My scheduled delivery was for today all day yesterday and today but it just switched to "pending." I think it got late and the guy wanted to go home. Oh well.


that's the wrong tude to have, you need complain and get compensation for them missing the delivery window


----------



## cwoody222

CMH said:


> that's the wrong tude to have, you need complain and get compensation for them missing the delivery window


That's what I am trying now with multiple FedEx deliveries.

Problem is, the process to formally make a claim requires a fax or snail mail. Ridiculous.

And even so, FedEx won't owe YOU anything unless you paid for shipping.

Chances are, they'll just refund the shipper. And the shipper won't refund to you since it's not THEIR fault.

Best you can do is take money out of FedEx's pocket but you probably won't get it put into yours.


----------



## cwoody222

cherry ghost said:


> My scheduled delivery was for today all day yesterday and today but it just switched to "pending." I think it got late and the guy wanted to go home. Oh well.


Actually usually that means your item was never actually out for delivery.

It probably arrived at your distribution center so their system ASSUMED it would be out for delivery but it probably sat on a truck waiting to be unloaded for two days.

THEN it was finally pending for delivery.

The problem is a) they're slow as ****e and b) their tacking is grossly inaccurate.


----------



## foghorn2

cwoody222 said:


> Actually usually that means your item was never actually out for delivery.
> 
> It probably arrived at your distribution center so their system ASSUMED it would be out for delivery but it probably sat on a truck waiting to be unloaded for two days.
> 
> THEN it was finally pending for delivery.
> 
> The problem is a) they're slow as ****e and b) their tacking is grossly inaccurate.


----------



## CMH

cwoody222 said:


> That's what I am trying now with multiple FedEx deliveries.
> 
> Problem is, the process to formally make a claim requires a fax or snail mail. Ridiculous.
> 
> And even so, FedEx won't owe YOU anything unless you paid for shipping.
> 
> Chances are, they'll just refund the shipper. And the shipper won't refund to you since it's not THEIR fault.
> 
> Best you can do is take money out of FedEx's pocket but you probably won't get it put into yours.


complain to Tivo for compensation and i am sure they will complain to FedEx cause they paid for shipping and if FedEx missed the promised delivery window, then FedEx will refund Tivo


----------



## schatham

To anyone who has it set up, does HBO and Showtime integrate well?

Also, lets get some screen shots this weekend for those of us who won't get theirs until next week.


----------



## cwoody222

schatham said:


> To anyone who has it set up, does HBO and Showtime integrate well?
> 
> Also, lets get some screen shots this weekend for those of us who won't get theirs until next week.


There is no Showtime integration.

Although some of their screenshots show "Black Monday" in a search result but that could be from Sling.


----------



## cyterio

I can confirm that Channels DVR plays back at original quality on the TiVo Stream 4K just fine. 

I received my device on Friday and my initial impression is that it has potential. I hope they continue to improve the TiVo app on this device and allow additional streaming providers access to the GUIDE. I still use a cable card from Comcast and run everything through a HD Homerun and Channels DVR. How awesome would it be if they added access to the HD Homerun as a source?

Has anyone else had issues with the main Android TV home screen not loading after leaving an app? When I hit the circle (home) button on the remote, I just get a black screen. I can hit the TIVo button or Netflix button and it will open those, but I can’t get back to the home screen unless I reset the box.

Is there a remote control command I can hit to reset the box? Or is the only way to reboot it by pulling the usb power?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## stuart628

cyterio said:


> I can confirm that Channels DVR plays back at original quality on the TiVo Stream 4K just fine.
> 
> I received my device on Friday and my initial impression is that it has potential. I hope they continue to improve the TiVo app on this device and allow additional streaming providers access to the GUIDE. I still use a cable card from Comcast and run everything through a HD Homerun and Channels DVR. How awesome would it be if they added access to the HD Homerun as a source?
> 
> Has anyone else had issues with the main Android TV home screen not loading after leaving an app? When I hit the circle (home) button on the remote, I just get a black screen. I can hit the TIVo button or Netflix button and it will open those, but I can't get back to the home screen unless I reset the box.
> 
> Is there a remote control command I can hit to reset the box? Or is the only way to reboot it by pulling the usb power?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


That would be ideal if I can't have my tivo...especially since channels has tv everywhere access!!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## manhole

My Channels DVR on my NAS streams recorded and live OTA broadcasts encoded with MPEG2 to my Apple TV over WiFi just fine. I don’t see why TiVo couldn’t do the same thing to the Stream 4K.


----------



## stuart628

manhole said:


> My Channels DVR on my NAS streams recorded and live OTA broadcasts encoded with MPEG2 to my Apple TV over WiFi just fine. I don't see why TiVo couldn't do the same thing to the Stream 4K.


It can what we are discussing is tivo putting channels dvr in the tivo app/guide...keep up man 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## osu1991

cyterio said:


> I can confirm that Channels DVR plays back at original quality on the TiVo Stream 4K just fine.
> 
> I received my device on Friday and my initial impression is that it has potential. I hope they continue to improve the TiVo app on this device and allow additional streaming providers access to the GUIDE. I still use a cable card from Comcast and run everything through a HD Homerun and Channels DVR. How awesome would it be if they added access to the HD Homerun as a source?
> 
> Has anyone else had issues with the main Android TV home screen not loading after leaving an app? When I hit the circle (home) button on the remote, I just get a black screen. I can hit the TIVo button or Netflix button and it will open those, but I can't get back to the home screen unless I reset the box.
> 
> Is there a remote control command I can hit to reset the box? Or is the only way to reboot it by pulling the usb power?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I had that when I first set it up. After it did a system update and restart it's worked fine.

Edit: gear icon on top right > device preferences > about is where the restart button is along with the system update button or scroll down from device preferences to reset the device to factory.


----------



## aaronwt

leiff said:


> Why is that ethernet adapter particularly affordable as compared to other ethernet adapters?


Maybe because it only has a 100Mb/s ethernet port? No idea. I will use wireless since I will typically get much higher throughput with wireless AC from my devices than a 100Mb/s Ethernet connection can get.


----------



## morac

So I’m curious if anyone knows if Tivo built this so Dolby Vision works with Sony TVs or they screwed it up like they did with the Edge?


----------



## Seth141

So I received it today and although I think it does have a lot of potential, mine keeps crashing NONSTOP. Is anyone else having this problem?


----------



## mrizzo80

Seth141 said:


> So I received it today and although I think it does have a lot of potential, mine keeps crashing NONSTOP. Is anyone else having this problem?


The overall device itself, like it reboots? Or apps are crashing?

I assume there's no way to force it to look for software updates?

How is this thing powered? Via TV USB or external power? Use the latter if available because USB isn't always enough to power devices.


----------



## mrizzo80

I think mine will show up tomorrow. I was very doubtful it would the day I bought it, but it arrived in the outer suburbs of my city today.


----------



## Alberto Hamade

What does the display setting "4k-smpte" do? Is it 23.976?

I think it might be 4096x2160


----------



## Lenonn

This isn’t going to work on my living room television. The television in question is a Panasonic P50ST50 (inherited from my brother when he got a new television) with only three HDMI ports. The Stream 4K helped me realize that port 3 is dead while port 2 is iffy at best.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

morac said:


> So I'm curious if anyone knows if Tivo built this so Dolby Vision works with Sony TVs or they screwed it up like they did with the Edge?


Here's at least a partial answer, and someone you can ask: https://www.tivocommunity.com/co...post-12043992


----------



## cwoody222

So Stream for me today. FedEx confirmed even though it's saying delivering by EOD it's sitting on a tractor trailer... where it's been since 10:30am.

And they claim they don't deliver on Sundays so my next hope is Monday.

I seriously wish you could pick your delivery carrier. I would NEVER pick FedEx.


----------



## Seth141

mrizzo80 said:


> The overall device itself, like it reboots? Or apps are crashing?
> 
> I assume there's no way to force it to look for software updates?
> 
> How is this thing powered? Via TV USB or external power? Use the latter if available because USB isn't always enough to power devices.


Not the device itself. In particular when using the TiVo stream app. I did have it Plugged into the usb at first and then changed it to the wall. It might be happening less now but still is happening.


----------



## foghorn2

cwoody222 said:


> So Stream for me today. FedEx confirmed even though it's saying delivering by EOD it's sitting on a tractor trailer... where it's been since 10:30am.
> 
> And they claim they don't deliver on Sundays so my next hope is Monday.
> 
> I seriously wish you could pick your delivery carrier. I would NEVER pick FedEx.


----------



## Scooter Scott

Just got mine today and I may have it replace my Roku as a secondary device. I use channels DVR as well and so far it seems to work just fine with that. I would love to see some tighter integration with the TiVo remote but still waiting to see what the devs to test the device themselves.


----------



## Hamstring

Mine won’t turn off when plugged into my receiver. I turn the tv off and TiVo stream turns everything back on.


----------



## Mikeguy

Lenonn said:


> This isn't going to work on my living room television. The television in question is a Panasonic P50ST50 (inherited from my brother when he got a new television) with only three HDMI ports. The Stream 4K helped me realize that port 3 is dead while port 2 is iffy at best.


You might consider an inexpensive HDMI switch--attach it to your TV, and you have an expanded number of HDMI ports. I don't think that many TVs ever have come with enough HDMI ports. 

*Amazon.com : hdmi switch*


----------



## cwoody222

cwoody222 said:


> So Stream for me today. FedEx confirmed even though it's saying delivering by EOD it's sitting on a tractor trailer... where it's been since 10:30am.
> 
> And they claim they don't deliver on Sundays so my next hope is Monday.
> 
> I seriously wish you could pick your delivery carrier. I would NEVER pick FedEx.


I tried to complain to TiVo via their chat, just to let them know their delivery partner failed.

They told me the unit hadn't shipped yet. So they're more clueless that FedEx.


----------



## schatham

mrizzo80 said:


> The overall device itself, like it reboots? Or apps are crashing?
> 
> I assume there's no way to force it to look for software updates?
> 
> How is this thing powered? Via TV USB or external power? Use the latter if available because USB isn't always enough to power devices.


Guy on YouTube says Tivo states to use power, not USB.


----------



## shwru980r

cwoody222 said:


> I tried to complain to TiVo via their chat, just to let them know their delivery partner failed.
> 
> They told me the unit hadn't shipped yet. So they're more clueless that FedEx.


Ask them for a refund of the shipping charges, if you paid for expedited shipping. They are admitting they caused the delay.


----------



## mattyro7878

I've been told all day FedEx will deliver by end of day. It is now 743 in Connecticut. Is there a chance this thing will show? Love to play with it tonight.


----------



## samsauce29

Mikeguy said:


> You might consider an inexpensive HDMI switch--attach it to your TV, and you have an expanded number of HDMI ports. I don't think that many TVs ever have come with enough HDMI ports.
> 
> *Amazon.com : hdmi switch*


I have the GANA switch that is 3 items down in the link. The new Stream 4K is working well through the switch. No issues thus far.


----------



## mattyro7878

Well I just called FedEx and in spite of all day being told it will be here by end of day, it ain't coming. I see no reason to go nutd cuz this is free shipping. Any time I spend may benefit someone but not me.


----------



## mattyro7878

I'm furious. I usually have good luck with deliveries. I am under the impression FedEx delivers on sunday. Just read in this forum they dont. Great


----------



## philco782

cybergrimes said:


> If there's an Android TV compatible version of the app available in the Play Store.
> A phone version of an app could be sideloaded with an APK but probably wouldn't respond to your remote since it's expecting touch input.


Can the TiVo app be easily pulled off the stick? Linus Tech Tips just reviewed the new Nvidia Shield and it looks awesome.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## osu1991

philco782 said:


> Can the TiVo app be easily pulled off the stick? Linus Tech Tips just reviewed the new Nvidia Shield and it looks awesome.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You can disable it in the settings


----------



## aaronwt

mattyro7878 said:


> I've been told all day FedEx will deliver by end of day. It is now 743 in Connecticut. Is there a chance this thing will show? Love to play with it tonight.


Mine was delivered at 7:15PM today.
Although the second one was supposed to be delivered today too. They had updated the delivery day from Sunday to Saturday. But according to the tracking it never even made it to my area on Saturday. Even though it still shows Saturday as the expected delivery date.

EDIT: Now the delivery for the second was just shows "Pending". So I would expect to get it here on Monday. Assuming FedEx ground delivers on Mondays.


----------



## morac

mattyro7878 said:


> I'm furious. I usually have good luck with deliveries. I am under the impression FedEx delivers on sunday. Just read in this forum they dont. Great


I didn't order this, but I've been getting stuff regularly delivered by UPS just fine recently. Fedex appears to be just horrible.

Something I ordered was shipped with Fedex on Monday. It was supposed to arrive this past Thursday, but lost a day because the "barcode label was unreadable and returned". Then it was supposed to be Friday, but was slow so it was changed to Saturday (today). It didn't arrive despite the tracking info showing it left the FedEx center 23 minutes away from me at 4:35 am today. It still shows as arriving today and it's after 10 pm here, so it's obviously not. I don't think Fedex delivers on Sunday so maybe it will get here Monday.

Meanwhile something I ordered was shipped with UPS Thursday and arrived today.


----------



## Jim1348

For those here using the TiVo Stream 4K for Sling TV, if you are also using the AirTV 2, do your local, over the air (OTA) channels, show up in your guide?


----------



## Dan203

cwoody222 said:


> There is no Showtime integration.
> 
> Although some of their screenshots show "Black Monday" in a search result but that could be from Sling.


I think it's from Prime. My suggestions include CBS stuff that I get in Prime due to my CBS Prime subscription.


----------



## manhole

stuart628 said:


> It can what we are discussing is tivo putting channels dvr in the tivo app/guide...keep up man
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I meant to use it as a client from a Roamio/Bolt/Edge host without having to transcode the content (in the same manner a Mini natively pulls MPEG2 or MPEG4 content from its host).


----------



## GBK33

FEDEX is the absolute worst! I ordered two streams Wednesday and paid for overnight delivery. They shipped Wednesday afternoon and I still don’t have them. The tracking changes everyday. It kept saying that they would be delivered Saturday....NOPE! It now has delivery scheduled for Tuesday!!! I called them and they basically said sorry for you’re luck we’re busy. He could care less. I am so disappointed.


----------



## babsonnexus

mattyro7878 said:


> I've been told all day FedEx will deliver by end of day. It is now 743 in Connecticut. Is there a chance this thing will show? Love to play with it tonight.


I think Connecticut is the bottleneck:










14 hours just sitting in Middletown!

As an aside, the package literally had to drive by my house (and my entire State) to get to the Seekonk distribution center. Yeah, I think FedEx needs some work on their operational distribution chain.


----------



## babsonnexus

Jim1348 said:


> For those here using the TiVo Stream 4K for Sling TV, if you are also using the AirTV 2, do your local, over the air (OTA) channels, show up in your guide?


TiVo Launches $50 Streaming Video Player to Take On Apple TV, Roku, Amazon Fire TV



babsonnexus said:


> :thumbsdown: If you have an AirTV to watch local channels on your Sling, they will not show up on the Guide (YET!). You have to use the Sling App directly to view those channels. This also applies to recording from those channels. Although the video didn't mention it, I believe this means you would have to go into the Sling app to see your local recordings instead of just going to the bookmark menu, but I'd need someone else to confirm that. This makes me glad I'm already going the HDHomeRun + Plex or Channels DVR route.


----------



## foghorn2

Most of these shipments are ground, dont expect super fast delivery, in the past they used cargo on planes and we all know theres not that many planes flying around now days.


----------



## cwoody222

foghorn2 said:


> Most of these shipments are ground, dont expect super fast delivery, in the past they used cargo on planes and we all know theres not that many planes flying around now days.


For me, the bottleneck is my local distribution center. Things make it there fast enough and then they sit on tractor trailers waiting to be offloaded onto vans for home delivery for 24-48 hours.

They blame the pandemic but shockingly UPS, USPS and Amazon aren't having these issues.


----------



## cwoody222

mattyro7878 said:


> I'm furious. I usually have good luck with deliveries. I am under the impression FedEx delivers on sunday. Just read in this forum they dont. Great


FedEx delivers 7 days a week. I have another FedEx package coming today (allegedly). TiVo's free shipping doesn't "qualify" for Sunday delivery, FedEx told me.

So even though they're late, FedEx will just sit on your package for an extra day.


----------



## schatham

mattyro7878 said:


> I'm furious. I usually have good luck with deliveries. I am under the impression FedEx delivers on sunday. Just read in this forum they dont. Great


Whats the tracking say for delivery date?

Mine just moved to Tuesday from Monday.


----------



## aaronwt

My second delivery was scheduled for Sunday. Then they rescheduled it for Saturday. Now this morning I see it is rescheduled for Sunday again. Of course it's almost 1Pm now, and it's not even showing that it's on a truck, Out for Delivery.


----------



## aaronwt

foghorn2 said:


> Most of these shipments are ground, dont expect super fast delivery, in the past they used cargo on planes and we all know theres not that many planes flying around now days.


Why aren't there cargo planes flying? I understand passenger planes not flying since there are 90% fewer passengers. But there are still a ton of packages that need to be delivered.


----------



## justinw

Got mine today from fedex


----------



## trip1eX

aaronwt said:


> Why aren't there cargo planes flying? I understand passenger planes not flying since there are 90% fewer passengers. But there are still a ton of packages that need to be delivered.


a lot of cargo was delivered by passenger planes. also with corona i imagine packages aren't processed as fast. anyway if ever there was a time to give delivery time speeds a break then this is it.


----------



## cwoody222

justinw said:


> Got mine today from fedex


Did you pay extra for shipping for use free shipping?


----------



## foghorn2

Ive had one for a while, I ordered another one on day of release,Fedex was supposed to deliver yesterday but it took forever for the truck to go from arridzona to here. So its coming today, and lately they have been delivering on Sundays. 

In general, everything I buy thats not from Amazon comes quicker than if I had ordered from Amazon. Including FedEx shipments.


----------



## justinw

cwoody222 said:


> Did you pay extra for shipping for use free shipping?


Free shipping. It had originally said Sunday when it first shipped, then switched to Saturday, then it was clear when it was 3 states away it wouldn't be delivered yesterday. Then last night it re-updated to today and sure enough I got it.


----------



## cwoody222

justinw said:


> Free shipping. It had originally said Sunday when it first shipped, then switched to Saturday, then it was clear when it was 3 states away it wouldn't be delivered yesterday. Then last night it re-updated to today and sure enough I got it.


Lucky you.

FedEx told me my shipment didn't "qualify" for Sunday delivery.

Doesn't matter anyway, it's still on a truck.


----------



## mattyro7878

babsonnexus said:


> I think Connecticut is the bottleneck:
> 
> View attachment 48888
> 
> 
> 14 hours just sitting in Middletown!
> 
> As an aside, the package literally had to drive by my house (and my entire State) to get to the Seekonk distribution center. Yeah, I think FedEx needs some work on their operational distribution chain.


Mine was in Middletown for a day.


----------



## mattyro7878

Hey!! How did this little box know how to control my receiver?? I am in awe of this technology!!!


----------



## Dan203

foghorn2 said:


> Ive had one for a while


Be careful, I know first hand they can be quite sensitive about that NDA.


----------



## mdavej

mattyro7878 said:


> Hey!! How did this little box know how to control my receiver?? I am in awe of this technology!!!


HDMI-CEC. Pretty common these days.


----------



## philco782

Well, my TiVo Stream 4K is on it's way now. With all the usb powered gadgets in my entertainment center now, does anyone recommend a good USB power distribution brick, like a power strip with just USB ports?

I'm eyeing this one from Anker. I've got several Anker products and they seem like a solid company.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00P936188/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_XJeUEb444Z0V0

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## babsonnexus

According to this review the first update is coming Tuesday (May 12, 2020)!






This was the Beta Tester from before, otherwise I have no idea how he would know this...


----------



## Patrick Hung

I just received mine yesterday, and am still playing with it. Things that I've noted:

No integration with:
CBS All Access
HBO GO
YouTube

I have a Live TV subscription with Hulu, and it's a bit of a mess (much more difficult to navigate than on Hulu on my phone).

I do like the voice search though - it pulls up programs quickly... though for some reason, I tried pulling up a brand new show from Hulu, but it only found teasers, and not the actual two or three already-available episodes.

The feeling is "meh" at this point... waiting to see what Google will do with its next-gen/upcoming Chromecast/Android TV thing.


----------



## sjsaleem

aaronwt said:


> My second delivery was scheduled for Sunday. Then they rescheduled it for Saturday. Now this morning I see it is rescheduled for Sunday again. Of course it's almost 1Pm now, and it's not even showing that it's on a truck, Out for Delivery.


Same with me.


----------



## mrizzo80

I’m in Ohio and just got mine. Ordered it around 6pm on release day. I was actually turning into my neighborhood a bit ago and saw the FedEx truck leaving. 

I used the free shipping option. It was saying Sunday all along but I didn’t have much faith that would happen, so pleasantly surprised.


----------



## mrizzo80

I’m curious to see how this thing compares to my Firestick 4K. I’m expecting some improvements and some drawbacks. 

I may end up using both of these if I can switch inputs with one of the two remotes.


----------



## foghorn2

Got mine today! Did not pay premium for shipping.


----------



## GBK33

mrizzo80 said:


> I'm in Ohio and just got mine. Ordered it around 6pm on release day. I was actually turning into my neighborhood a bit ago and saw the FedEx truck leaving.
> 
> I used the free shipping option. It was saying Sunday all along but I didn't have much faith that would happen, so pleasantly surprised.


I'm in Ohio too, ordered mine at 9:30am on release day and paid for overnight shipping and still don't have. This is too funny fedex sucks


----------



## stuart628

GBK33 said:


> I'm in Ohio too, ordered mine at 9:30am on release day and paid for overnight shipping and still don't have. This is too funny fedex sucks


I am in ohio (akron) and ordered on release day and got free shipping and they were here Saturday

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BillyClyde

GBK33 said:


> FEDEX is the absolute worst! I ordered two streams Wednesday and paid for overnight delivery. They shipped Wednesday afternoon and I still don't have them. The tracking changes everyday. It kept saying that they would be delivered Saturday....NOPE! It now has delivery scheduled for Tuesday!!! I called them and they basically said sorry for you're luck we're busy. He could care less. I am so disappointed.





GBK33 said:


> I'm in Ohio too, ordered mine at 9:30am on release day and paid for overnight shipping and still don't have. This is too funny fedex sucks


I would check your order emails from TiVo. I don't think it's FedEx's fault. I also paid for 2 day shipping, but TiVo changed it to ground shipping without asking or contacting me, nor refunding the extra money it cost! 

I called them to complain when I noticed this and the lady said they had tons of people calling to complain about this. So it sounds like TiVo screwed up somehow, not FedEx.


----------



## mattyro7878

mdavej said:


> HDMI-CEC. Pretty common these days.


Do not have cece enabled on my receiver. Something else going on.


----------



## Mikeguy

Dan203 said:


> Be careful, I know first hand they can be quite sensitive about that NDA.


Except when they forget to send it to you and get you to sign it.


----------



## Mikeguy

trip1eX said:


> a lot of cargo was delivered by passenger planes. also with corona i imagine packages aren't processed as fast. anyway if ever there was a time to give delivery time speeds a break then this is it.


Although the 5-1/2 weeks for 2 bags of candy from Amazon.com was pushing it.


----------



## foghorn2

If you sub to sling and have the Airtv ota tuner, its not on the Tivo Guide, but if you are watching a sling channel, hit the up button and the locals will appear in the strip.

To watch a recorded ota program, go to My Shows, choose a cloud recording, it will take you the the native sling interface and from there yyou can go to DVR and choose the OTA recordings.

Its a big mess. They have a lot of work to do.


----------



## Mikeguy

GBK33 said:


> I'm in Ohio too, ordered mine at 9:30am on release day and paid for overnight shipping and still don't have. This is too funny fedex sucks


Do be sure to contact TiVo for a refund of the shipping--a shipping screw-up on the TiVo/FedEx end, of which TiVo is aware (and for which TiVo is giving refunds).


----------



## Dan203

foghorn2 said:


> If you sub to sling and have the Airtv ota tuner, its not on the Tivo Guide, but if you are watching a sling channel, hit the up button and the locals will appear in the strip.
> 
> To watch a recorded ota program, go to My Shows, choose a cloud recording, it will take you the the native sling interface and from there yyou can go to DVR and choose the OTA recordings.
> 
> Its a big mess. They have a lot of work to do.


So the locals don't show in the TiVo guide?


----------



## JeffInDFW

I've been watching YouTubeTV on my Xbox One for two months. My wife walked in last night and said, "WOW. That looks amazing! What did you change?". I'm now using the Tivo Stream 4K to watch YouTube TV. Yeah, the improvement in PQ is huge over the Xbox One.


----------



## smark

Dan203 said:


> So the locals don't show in the TiVo guide?


No.


----------



## foghorn2

Dan203 said:


> So the locals don't show in the TiVo guide?


No, and that sucks! Also the ota recordings dont either, I posted the workaround.
Also the sling app on this device is different than the one on their own AirTV Mini 4k, the Tivo one looks identical to the FTV version.


----------



## ellinj

I Got mine setup, A couple of things I noticed in the ten minutes or so that I played with it. Netflix integration seems a bit wonky,searching for Jessica Jones gave me no option to add the show to my list. Doing the same for Community did allow me to add that show. Xfinity doesn't allow you to use HBO Go. (^$%$%#) on android devices. 

Overall I think it has potential but this is clearly MVP.


----------



## cybergrimes

JeffInDFW said:


> I've been watching YouTubeTV on my Xbox One for two months. My wife walked in last night and said, "WOW. That looks amazing! What did you change?". I'm now using the Tivo Stream 4K to watch YouTube TV. Yeah, the improvement in PQ is huge over the Xbox One.


She liked the forced HDR?


----------



## aaronwt

JeffInDFW said:


> I've been watching YouTubeTV on my Xbox One for two months. My wife walked in last night and said, "WOW. That looks amazing! What did you change?". I'm now using the Tivo Stream 4K to watch YouTube TV. Yeah, the improvement in PQ is huge over the Xbox One.


Its a huge step back from my other devices since they will properly show SDR content in SDR. Instead of showing it in fake HDR like the Stream 4k is doing.

Sent from my Galaxy S10


----------



## morac

aaronwt said:


> Its a huge step back from my other devices since they will properly show SDR content in SDR. Instead of showing it in fake HDR like the Stream 4k is doing.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy S10


Wait the Stream shows everything in HDR? That seems like a big defect as I'm pretty sure Android TV doesn't do that, at least my Sony doesn't. I don't think any of the other streaming devices do that, or at least there is an option to not do so.


----------



## cybergrimes

morac said:


> Wait the Stream shows everything in HDR? That seems like a big defect as I'm pretty sure Android TV doesn't do that, at least my Sony doesn't. I don't think any of the other streaming devices do that, or at least there is an option to not do so.


I don't know, I have a Jetstream 4K device that has a few SDR->HDR and HDR->SDR options but they don't seem to do anything. Sometimes when I reboot it the menu looks like over saturated fake HDR until I start playing some SDR content, then back to the menu and it's correctly SDR. I think Nvidia as an OEM has put a lot of work into getting HDR right for it's device, it's not just Android TV getting it right out of the box for any OEM that uses an HDR capable chipset.

Has anyone tried the Stream on an SDR only TV? or setting it to 1080p output? I'm curious if that changes any of this forced HDR business.


----------



## morac

cybergrimes said:


> I don't know, I have a Jetstream 4K device that has a few SDR->HDR and HDR->SDR options but they don't seem to do anything. Sometimes when I reboot it the menu looks like over saturated fake HDR until I start playing some SDR content, then back to the menu and it's correctly SDR. I think Nvidia as an OEM has put a lot of work into getting HDR right for it's device, it's not just Android TV getting it right out of the box for any OEM that uses an HDR capable chipset.
> 
> Has anyone tried the Stream on an SDR only TV? or setting it to 1080p output? I'm curious if that changes any of this forced HDR business.


Your TV should be able to tell you if the input video content is HDR or not. Mine can.


----------



## ellinj

anyone having their tv turn on randomly since installing the stream?


----------



## aaronwt

morac said:


> Wait the Stream shows everything in HDR? That seems like a big defect as I'm pretty sure Android TV doesn't do that, at least my Sony doesn't. I don't think any of the other streaming devices do that, or at least there is an option to not do so.


Yes. My Sony Android TV, Shield TVs, and Rockbox Android box all do not have forced HDR. So I'm hoping that TiVo quickly addresses it. But they really should not have released it with forced HDR to begin with. But then Apple did the same thing with the ATV 4K, and they have a ton of resources at their disposal.


----------



## foghorn2

I think all this forced HDR stuff and the fact that you cant hardware decode MPEG2 is related. The AirTv Mini 4K has no such issues.


----------



## Hamstring

ellinj said:


> anyone having their tv turn on randomly since installing the stream?


Yes, I can';t turn anything off when this is plugged into the hdmi port in my receiver. A crappy ROKU stick has everything for my streaming needs. I hoped this would replace it.


----------



## Dan203

Hamstring said:


> Yes, I can';t turn anything off when this is plugged into the hdmi port in my receiver. A crappy ROKU stick has everything for my streaming needs. I hoped this would replace it.


I had this problem too. Disabling CEC on the TV fixed it. But I wasn't using CEC anyway so it was no big deal for me to disable it.


----------



## hapster85

Mikeguy said:


> I only skimmed the message and so missed that part. But I did catch the mention that the Stream 4K and TiVo DVRs will be fully integrated in a future, upcoming software update.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Kidding!!!


It's asinine that this functionality isn't there from the start. Gives me zero incentive to get one. And that's with probably needing to replace my Fire TV soon, as I'm having to reboot it more and more often.


----------



## Bierboy

I refuse to use anything related to Android.


----------



## sjsaleem

cyterio said:


> I can confirm that Channels DVR plays back at original quality on the TiVo Stream 4K just fine.
> 
> I received my device on Friday and my initial impression is that it has potential. I hope they continue to improve the TiVo app on this device and allow additional streaming providers access to the GUIDE. I still use a cable card from Comcast and run everything through a HD Homerun and Channels DVR. How awesome would it be if they added access to the HD Homerun as a source?
> 
> Has anyone else had issues with the main Android TV home screen not loading after leaving an app? When I hit the circle (home) button on the remote, I just get a black screen. I can hit the TIVo button or Netflix button and it will open those, but I can't get back to the home screen unless I reset the box.
> 
> Is there a remote control command I can hit to reset the box? Or is the only way to reboot it by pulling the usb power?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I also get the same issue. Did you get circle (home) button on the remote to work normal?


----------



## powrcow

sjsaleem said:


> I also get the same issue. Did you get circle (home) button on the remote to work normal?


I also had the circle button go to a black screen issue. But starting things from the Tivostream app worked fine. I power cycled the unit and now everything works. BTW, I think you can hold the power button on the remote for 5 seconds to force the unit to reboot.


----------



## GBK33

I finally got mine!! Hallelujah. I called Tivo and they said they had issues with FedEx and that many of the upgraded shippings went out as the free standard shipping. They refunded my extra shipping costs. What a cluster

I still hate Fedex ;-)


----------



## Alberto Hamade

sjsaleem said:


> I also get the same issue. Did you get circle (home) button on the remote to work normal?


I was getting the black screen too. I can't quite remember what I did to get the home screen again, but it did appear after a while.


----------



## shwru980r

Bierboy said:


> I refuse to use anything related to Android.


Why?


----------



## BillyClyde

GBK33 said:


> I finally got mine!! Hallelujah. I called Tivo and they said they had issues with FedEx and that many of the upgraded shippings went out as the free standard shipping. They refunded my extra shipping costs. What a cluster
> 
> I still hate Fedex ;-)


I got this email earlier today:


----------



## Hamstring

Dan203 said:


> I had this problem too. Disabling CEC on the TV fixed it. But I wasn't using CEC anyway so it was no big deal for me to disable it.


Yeah I kind of like it. I guess I'll use the streamer on another tv.


----------



## cybergrimes

I just moved mine to a secondary TV that's 1080p, SDR only of course, and the forced HDR has no effect since the TV doesn't know what HDR is 
Anyway, yeah looks fine connected to this TV. I'll be leaving it here for now, see what they do with it in the future.


----------



## trip1eX




----------



## mrizzo80

I’m still checking things out, but this is a nice device. 

It’s very similar to a Firestick, but the home screen is far less chaotic; it’s content provider agnostic and not designed to sell VOD like the Firestick is. 

I’ve also experienced some weirdness with black screens and being unable to get back to the home screen. 

The remote feels good in the hand and is much lighter than the TiVo Slide (no keyboard or backlight of course). 

It would be nice if the Stream app could run directly on top of the OS. It’s weird going to the “TiVo home screen” and waiting for the app to reload. That’s my main problem with the devices I use - not enough RAM to pin the most-used apps into memory.


----------



## osu1991

I’ve had it lockup a couple of times if I leave YoutubeTV without pausing the video. I get a playback error and nothing will load from YoutubeTV. It even locks up Philo from playing anything. OTA via HDHomeRun and Plex will still work, but nothing else. I have to reboot the stream and then it takes a while for YoutubeTV to reload and start playing again.


----------



## kpeters59

TiVo Stream 4K: Everything You Need to Know About the New Android TV-Based Dongle | Next TV

-KP


----------



## Dan203

trip1eX said:


>


Makes sense. Chromecast is awkward to use, since you have to use a phone or tablet to control it, and Apple TV is super expensive and has a terrible remote. Roku and Fire TV are both cheap and relatively easy to use.

Although I think Roku will either go away or convert to some flavor of Android in the future. I just think that services will want to consolidate their mobile and TV apps eventually and to do that means either iOS or Android. Maybe some generic HTML5 platform could prevail as a universal for all 3, but platform specific scripting languages, that relatively few developers know, like Brightscript will likely die off.


----------



## pldoolittle

Randomly, TiVo Stream search now does nothing. I can't find a reboot option either.


----------



## CMH

pldoolittle said:


> Randomly, TiVo Stream search now does nothing. I can't find a reboot option either.


go at top of main Android screen and go to settings

go to device preferences and scroll down - it says reset right there


----------



## osu1991

pldoolittle said:


> Randomly, TiVo Stream search now does nothing. I can't find a reboot option either.


Settings gear at top right>device preferences>about>Restart


----------



## cwoody222

Got mine yesterday afternoon after FedEx sat on it for 2 days.

It's a strange little device. Full disclosure: I'm not a big Google services user and usually don't like Google stuff and find it unintuitive. I have an original Chromecast in a drawer somewhere but that's really all I've used of their TV products.

Setup was mostly OK. The wall wart is too big to fit behind my mounted TV so I'm using the USB to power, which I realize is not recommended. I have a Vizio with CEC enabled but so far no issues with a ghost turning on my TV. And my set has a history of doing this even before the Stream!

The remote would not pair with my device at first. I had to continuously do the remote setup a few times to get it to "stick". As reported, no soundbar support is a disappointment. But for $50, I don't expect a premium remote.

Why didn't setup ask me to set my output? I spent some time plugging it into different HDMI ports (not easy on my mounted set) because I couldn't get it to output 2160p. Turns out it was only set for 1080p in the AndroidTV settings 

Search is clunky... it's not even a TiVo search, it's just Google?! And it's not limited to shows? Searching for Amazon's "Homecoming" prompted me for "homecoming dresses". I don't care for that. Then you have to go BACK into the Stream app to add shows? It's a weird experience to bounce back and forth like that.

I know some don't like Hydra but I wish the Stream app looked MORE like Hydra to bring some additional consistency. Aside from remote, I don't get a TiVo-feel from the Stream app.

I wish the Stream had integration with more apps. This isn't really many more than they have now. (I don't use, nor intend to, SlingTV) And I can't get Amazon to work - just brings me to their home screen every time. No way to browse EPISODE lists besides going into individual apps? That's less than my TiVo Roamio offers.

Picture quality was good. I'm not bothered by the oversaturation people have complained about with the auto HDR.

The device is snappy but I've had it flicker to black screen a few times and once the AndroidTV menu refused to open when I hit that button. I had to long-press the button to get a quick-view menu for apps.

My FireTV Cube has become very laggy after some recent updates so I'm looking to replace that. I can't remove it completely because it is my Alexa in that room and controls my TV but we'll see if I use it less. It was my exclusive streamer for that TV set beside using Netflix app on my Vizio just for Dolby Vision. But I can switch Netflix to the Stream for that.

I'll be curious to see what future updates bring... For $50, it's a good little toy.


----------



## cybergrimes

cwoody222 said:


> No way to browse EPISODE lists besides going into individual apps


unless I'm not understanding you-- from the show screen select "Episodes" on the top row
then browse all the episodes, then pick the service to use for playback of that episode

so far Prime Video just opens the app, Hulu and I think Netflix have launched straight to the episode


----------



## cybergrimes

I haven't seen anyone mention in but in the system settings menu there's an area for Google Assistant, in here you can enable/disable individual apps for inclusion in search. It doesn't omit everything, for example there isn't an option to disable YouTube. Those are results Google wants you to see I suppose.


----------



## zyzzx

Does the Stream app track watched episodes or seasons? I don’t see much benefit from the My Shows other than a tile for each show I have watched already, or am currently watching, or might want to watch. It doesn’t seem to track my viewing of each show. Am I missing something? I want My Shows to remove a show’s tile when I’ve completed the most recent season, then re-add the tile when a new season is released. Otherwise, My Shows is mostly useless.

Also, I originally had my Samsung TV CEC turned on but the Stream steals the HDMI input so I turned off TV CEC. Now my ARC back to my Yamaha receiver doesn’t work. I had no problem with the Roku doing HDMI switching correctly.


----------



## cybergrimes

zyzzx said:


> Does the Stream app track watched episodes or seasons? I don't see much benefit from the My Shows other than a tile for each show I have watched already, or am currently watching, or might want to watch. It doesn't seem to track my viewing of each show. Am I missing something? I want My Shows to remove a show's tile when I've completed the most recent season, then re-add the tile when a new season is released. Otherwise, My Shows is mostly useless.
> 
> Also, I originally had my Samsung TV CEC turned on but the Stream steals the HDMI input so I turned off TV CEC. Now my ARC back to my Yamaha receiver doesn't work. I had no problem with the Roku doing HDMI switching correctly.


Need to play with it more. I did add a show that had no episodes available from my sources and it did NOT show up in My Shows.
I also launch a show in Disney+, it shows on the main page as recently watched but not seeing anything to indicate it knows which episodes have been viewed. That would be hard I think.


----------



## BillyClyde

cwoody222 said:


> ....Picture quality was good. I'm not bothered by the oversaturation people have complained about with the auto HDR.....


Being oversaturated isn't how it's supposed to present itself if HDR or Dolby Vision are forced. It's supposed to just remap the HD color space into the UHD one, maintaining the same colors, but leaving the extra space for use when you actually do play an HDR or Dolby video. You may see some results of the dynamic range changing, but not colors.

From what I've read and my experience, if it's oversaturated then it's not setup or calibrated right.


----------



## GBK33

has anyone heard any news of the reported update that is supposed to come sometime today?


----------



## jimpmc

GBK33 said:


> has anyone heard any news of the reported update that is supposed to come sometime today?


Source? This is the first I've heard of that.


----------



## babsonnexus

zyzzx said:


> Does the Stream app track watched episodes or seasons? I don't see much benefit from the My Shows other than a tile for each show I have watched already, or am currently watching, or might want to watch. It doesn't seem to track my viewing of each show. Am I missing something? I want My Shows to remove a show's tile when I've completed the most recent season, then re-add the tile when a new season is released. Otherwise, My Shows is mostly useless.


Nope, see TiVo Stream 4K: Path to Perfection, it is on the bug list.


----------



## cybergrimes

jimpmc said:


> Source? This is the first I've heard of that.


I think in one of the YouTube videos it's mentioned, someone who was testing before release

Looks like this one, mentions a Tuesday update at end of video


----------



## babsonnexus

GBK33 said:


> has anyone heard any news of the reported update that is supposed to come sometime today?





babsonnexus said:


> According to this review the first update is coming Tuesday (May 12, 2020)!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was the Beta Tester from before, otherwise I have no idea how he would know this...


----------



## Paul Billings

I was hoping to use Dish Anywhere with this, but I can't get closed captioning to work. I've tried just about every permutation of closed captioning options available on the device, and nothing works. If if hit the center enter button on the remote and hold it, closed captioning turns on for about 10 seconds, but an overlay on the right 1/3 of the screen for options for turning CC on or off stays on the screen once I left my finger off the center enter button, and CC disappears. Of course, I first activated CC in the Dish Anywhere settings, but that doesn't seem to have any effect.


----------



## Jim1348

GBK33 said:


> has anyone heard any news of the reported update that is supposed to come sometime today?


I had read that, too, a couple of days ago. Hopefully, they will do an update today and it will resolve some issues.


----------



## cwoody222

That guy is a beta tester. If anything, he knows when THEY are getting an update.

Can’t believe they’re allowing a tester to continue in the program while he’s just putting out YouTube videos.


----------



## TonyTheTiger

The NDA on the HARDWARE has been lifted, but is still in place for software betas (or so I was told!).

Tuesday is certainly the day for updates and I think beta testers also get them, but they get later, pre-release software to test before the genpop gets it.


----------



## aprest

*My Review of TiVo Stream 4K*

1. I have three Roku Ultras, one Roku Stick +, a TCI TV with integrated Roku and an Apple TV 4K. I also have a Fire Stick 4K which is now in a drawer because I did not like it. I now have a TiVo Stream 4K to compare to my other streamers.

2. In my recent testing, the TiVo Stream 4K does not perform as well as the Roku Ultras or Apple TV 4K but does provide a great way for casting videos from my computer.

a. I buy a lot of 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray disks from Amazon that come with a digital movie code that I redeem on Vudu or Movies Anywhere. I spend a lot of time watching the streaming digital movies while I am on my treadmill. The Roku Ultra and Apple TV 4K play the UHD 4K movies extremely well. The TiVo Stream 4K does not provide UHD 4K streaming with Vudu or Movies Anywhere. You only get HD streams with no ATMOS sound when using the Vudu and Movies Anywhere apps.​
b. The TiVo Stream 4K is unique in that it offers a Nest app that would allow me to view my Nest cameras on my TV. Unfortunately, I can't sign into my Nest account. I tried over and over again but my User ID and Password failed to enable the app.​
c. The app screen of the TiVo Stream 4K is not nearly as intuitive or user friendly as those for the Roku Ultra or the Apple TV 4K. In addition, I was not able to reorder the location of apps on the TiVo app screen as I can easily do on the Roku Ultras.​
d. I am having the problem of the TiVo Stream 4K device randomly turning on my TV and receiver and changing the HDMI input. I did turn off CEC on my Samsung TV, and will see if that helps.​
e. I have Chromecast installed on my TVs. However, there is no remote that can control what is being cast to the TV. There have been rumors that Google was going to release a new Chromecast device with a remote. The TiVo Stream 4K provides casting capability and its remote can control the volume as well as the forward, pause and reverse of the movie being cast. Thus, I will retire my Chromecast device soon.​


----------



## SugarBowl

aprest said:


> *My Review of TiVo Stream 4K*
> 
> b. The TiVo Stream 4K is unique in that it offers a Nest app that would allow me to view my Nest cameras on my TV. Unfortunately, I can't sign into my Nest account. I tried over and over again but my User ID and Password failed to enable the app.​


The nest app works good for me. Do you have a NEST account, or a google account? There is a nest app for apple tv, and I read somewhere that updating to a google account breaks the apple tv app.

FAQs about accounts for the Nest app - Google Nest Help


Code:


Once you migrate your account, you will no longer be able to use the Nest app on Apple TV or on Android TV.


----------



## mrizzo80

As mentioned above, it’s odd that the google search is not limited to movies and tv shows.

Also, the Hulu integration could be better, but I think the issue might be on Hulu’s end since my Firestick basically does the same thing. I’m not really interested in tracking individual episodes, so I’m fine with just having a tile for that. But when I click that, the OTT provider should just figure out where I’m at and play from there. Hulu shows start with the first episode available, which defeats the point of “my shows” if it doesn’t pick up where you left off. 

For those that want it to track episodes watched, I doubt that is coming. It never came to OnePass on the DVRs to my knowledge. The OTT provider would have to expose your watch history for that to even be possible for TiVo to attempt to do. But if they can pull that off, great.


----------



## moyekj

mrizzo80 said:


> For those that want it to track episodes watched, I doubt that is coming. It never came to OnePass on the DVRs to my knowledge. The OTT provider would have to expose your watch history for that to even be possible for TiVo to attempt to do. But if they can pull that off, great.


 Reelgood app allows you to manually mark what you've watched at least which is probably the only way it can work reliably for any title. I've switched to that app for aggregation and marking what I've watched and what is still left to watch, and I re-mapped TiVo button on the remote to launch that app instead of TiVo since it works much better and has much more complete streaming title information.


----------



## MichaelCoffin

Damnit! Fedex lost my Stream 4K shipment!


----------



## foghorn2

MichaelCoffin said:


> Damnit! Fedex lost my Stream 4K shipment!


Well that should put a nail in the Coffin, Michael.


----------



## pldoolittle

moyekj said:


> Reelgood app allows you to manually mark what you've watched at least which is probably the only way it can work reliably for any title. I've switched to that app for aggregation and marking what I've watched and what is still left to watch, and I re-mapped TiVo button on the remote to launch that app instead of TiVo since it works much better and has much more complete streaming title information.


Have you found any way to alter the My Shows display? Mine is a single row (about 100 wide) that appears to be in order of last added. Completely unusable.


----------



## moyekj

pldoolittle said:


> Have you found any way to alter the My Shows display? Mine is a single row (about 100 wide) that appears to be in order of last added. Completely unusable.


Unfortunately no. I only have 20 series I'm tracking right now though so not too bad. The "Your Lists" row is a skinnier than other rows under Home, and fits about 7 per screen, so not too much scrolling around. Also, since I tend to go through one series at a time rather than jumping around, once I find it I just stay there so don't have to search around so doesn't really bother me.


----------



## BillyClyde

MichaelCoffin said:


> Damnit! Fedex lost my Stream 4K shipment!


How did you find out? Mine seems to have stalled in the same place since Friday and hasn't moved so I'm worried it suffered the same fate. It's supposed to arrive tomorrow, so all hope isn't lost yet, but it's teetering on the edge!


----------



## aprest

SugarBowl said:


> The nest app works good for me. Do you have a NEST account, or a google account? There is a nest app for apple tv, and I read somewhere that updating to a google account breaks the apple tv app.
> 
> Yeas I have a Google Account for my Nest cameras, thermostats, and Protect smoke detectors.
> 
> FAQs about accounts for the Nest app - Google Nest Help
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Once you migrate your account, you will no longer be able to use the Nest app on Apple TV or on Android TV.


Yes, I have


----------



## aprest

My Review Part 2
I have given up on the TiVo Stream 4K. I like the ability to Cast from my PC but the TiVo Stream 4K can't hold a candle to my Roku Ultras or my Apple TV 4K.
To make it worse, even though I have disabled CEC on my Samsung TV, the TiVo Stream 4K has totally screwed up my AV setup. I have a Denon AVR that is connected to a TiVo Premiere, a Roku Ultra, a Sony UHD Blu-ray player and a Chromecast. When I connect the TiVo Stream 4K, it suddenly commandeers my setup and i can't use any of my other devices. When I try to use the Roku, the system switches to the TiVo Stream 4 K. The same thing happens when I try to use the TiVo Premiere, Sony UHD Blu-ray player or the Chromecast. The only solution was to disconnect power to the TiVo Stream. It is weird that everything appears to be working fine and then suddenly the TiVo Stream takes control.

I have been addicted to TiVo since the the early days of TiVo. I have 5 active TiVo Devices (two Premieres, one Bolt +, one XL4 and one Mini VOX) and I also have 5 inactive TiVos in a closet. Other than poor reliability with the Bolt + (I am on my third one in three years), I have been very happy with TiVo products and service.

TiVo should be ashamed of themselves for introducing the TiVo Stream 4K. This thing is not ready for prime time. Hopefully, they will fix it with new firmware, but until then it is unusable as far as I am concerned.


----------



## Furmaniac

I am frustrated with the TiVo 4K Streaming Stick. I searched for a movie called Hitler from 1962 starring Richard Basehart, so I could add it to the My Shows list.(TCM showed it a few years ago and it's interesting because its star was a Jewish actor.)
It said the movie was on Google Play Movies only and there was no way to add it to the My Shows list for that app! The movie happens to be available on Prime video but the search will not display that.
I went to my TiVo DVR to do a voice search for the movie. The result for that movie did not show up at all.
Then I went into the search section on the TiVo DVR and typed in the movie. It showed up and when I clicked on it and showed that it was available on Prime video, and I added it by bookmarking it to the DVR'S My Shows list under streaming movies.
So it seems we have all different search engines being used between the stick and the DVR, and some of them are not very accurate at all times.


----------



## moyekj

Furmaniac said:


> I am frustrated with the TiVo 4K Streaming Stick. I searched for a movie called Hitler from 1962 starring Richard Basehart, so I could add it to the My Shows list.(TCM showed it a few years ago and it's interesting because its star was a Jewish actor.)
> It said the movie was on Google Play Movies only and there was no way to add it to the My Shows list for that app! The movie happens to be available on Prime video but the search will not display that.
> I went to my TiVo DVR to do a voice search for the movie. The result for that movie did not show up at all.
> Then I went into the search section on the TiVo DVR and typed in the movie. It showed up and when I clicked on it and showed that it was available on Prime video, and I added it by bookmarking it to the DVR'S My Shows list under streaming movies.
> So it seems we have all different search engines being used between the stick and the DVR, and some of them are not very accurate at all times.


The TiVo database is flawed. I switched to use "Reelgood" app instead and even re-mapped such that double tap on TiVo button launches Reelgood.


----------



## RIKNIK

I have not been able to get Dolby Vision or HDR10 to work. As I was trying different settings Dolby Vision seems to work with 1080p and 4k30 if I turn the Full UHD off on my TV's input settings, but auto settings do not work at all. Actually, I don't think any HDR is working, it is just the forced HDR on the TIVO unit.
Built in TV apps work fine with Dolby Vision and HDR10 and 10+ and so does my Firestick 4K.
Also, post 1766 by aprest is totally right on. Same problems here. How these problems got past beta testing is beyond me. Most likely TIVO released this knowing it has many problems. We are paying $50 to beta test a flawed unit. This is totally unacceptable. I bought this because of the stated ability to pass 4k HDR programs. This is not only not ready for prime time, it should never have been released with these flaws. Very unethical!


----------



## ellinj

has there been any updates thus far? I really want to turn back on HDMI-CEC.


----------



## Where As

ellinj said:


> has there been any updates thus far? I really want to turn back on HDMI-CEC.


I agree. I'm having the same problem as @aprest , and I assume you are as well. I was having bizarre problems with my other devices (Onkyo AVR, Shield TV, Roku 4, Xfinity X1, FireTV 4k stick) being completely blocked from working. This is especially a problem with the TV not being able to turn the AVR on/off. I just added the TiVO Stream as an experiment, and although I like it, I've completely removed it from my system for the moment since this makes my system unusable.


----------



## aprest

aprest said:


> My Review Part 2
> I have given up on the TiVo Stream 4K. I like the ability to Cast from my PC but the TiVo Stream 4K can't hold a candle to my Roku Ultras or my Apple TV 4K.
> To make it worse, even though I have disabled CEC on my Samsung TV, the TiVo Stream 4K has totally screwed up my AV setup. I have a Denon AVR that is connected to a TiVo Premiere, a Roku Ultra, a Sony UHD Blu-ray player and a Chromecast. When I connect the TiVo Stream 4K, it suddenly commandeers my setup and i can't use any of my other devices. When I try to use the Roku, the system switches to the TiVo Stream 4 K. The same thing happens when I try to use the TiVo Premiere, Sony UHD Blu-ray player or the Chromecast. The only solution was to disconnect power to the TiVo Stream. It is weird that everything appears to be working fine and then suddenly the TiVo Stream takes control.
> 
> I have been addicted to TiVo since the the early days of TiVo. I have 5 active TiVo Devices (two Premieres, one Bolt +, one XL4 and one Mini VOX) and I also have 5 inactive TiVos in a closet. Other than poor reliability with the Bolt + (I am on my third one in three years), I have been very happy with TiVo products and service.
> 
> TiVo should be ashamed of themselves for introducing the TiVo Stream 4K. This thing is not ready for prime time. Hopefully, they will fix it with new firmware, but until then it is unusable as far as I am concerned.


________________________________________________________________-
Update:
I finally got the TiVo Stream 4K to stop screwing up my AV system but to do it I had to disable CEC on my Samsung TV *and* on my Denon AVR. It has been working for half a day now. The casting capability works great using VLC Media Player, but not Videostream for Chrome for some reason (it stalls while buffering). The downside of disabling CEC is that the volume control on the Roku Ultra remote no longer works so I have to use my Logitech Harmony remote to control my Roku Ultra volume. I am still not impressed because it will only play HDX from UHD digital videos using Vudu. I will probably only use the TiVo Stream 4K for casting from my PC to my TV.


----------



## Where As

aprest said:


> ________________________________________________________________-
> Update:
> I finally got the TiVo Stream 4K to stop screwing up my AV system but to do it I had to disable CEC on my Samsung TV *and* on my Denon AVR. It has been working for half a day now. The casting capability works great using VLC Media Player, but not Videostream for Chrome for some reason (it stalls while buffering). The downside of disabling CEC is that the volume control on the Roku Ultra remote no longer works so I have to use my Logitech Harmony remote to control my Roku Ultra volume. I am still not impressed because it will only play HDX from UHD digital videos using Vudu. I will probably only use the TiVo Stream 4K for casting from my PC to my TV.


Having to disable useful features on other components is a non-starter for me. This is the first time I've had a device with these kinds of problems. If it can't work with my system without minor tweaks (to the TiVo, NOT my other equipment), it's not worth the headache. I'm not ready to send it back - maybe they'll fix the issue, and if that doesn't work, I'll throw it on a secondary TV...


----------



## pldoolittle

moyekj said:


> I tend to go through one series at a time rather than jumping around


Me too, but there are three of us sharing the device and we all have a lot of series that are on hiatus, but will come back so they need trackng. TWD, FTWD, Dr Who, Call Saul, Outlander, just to name a few of mine.

I desperately need a sortable list view that mimics the recordings list on TiVO UE3.


----------



## mrizzo80

I really like this device so far. I guess I’m in the minority.


----------



## moyekj

mrizzo80 said:


> I really like this device so far. I guess I'm in the minority.


 Just curious what you like specifically about it? You like the TiVo UI on it? The TiVo streaming database is too full of holes for it to be useful to me even if I did like their UI.


----------



## cybergrimes

I like it because I wanted some reliable Android TV devices for secondary TVs without buying expensive Shields or Mi brand. I also like TiVo remotes, input button on streaming remote is huge for me (and works no problem for me). I expected it would be full sized though...


----------



## mrizzo80

moyekj said:


> Just curious what you like specifically about it? You like the TiVo UI on it? The TiVo streaming database is too full of holes for it to be useful to me even if I did like their UI.


It improves upon the Firestick 4K experience, which has been my tv source for the past year.

I haven't even run into metadata issues yet inside the Steam app, which I expected to. I searched for shows that recently hit Netflix and they were there.

The remote is better than I expected. It's a good middle ground between the Slide remote and the Firestick remote. I love the Peanut.

I have a YTTV subscription, but I rarely use it. I'm nearly all OTT. I couldn't care less that this thing can't talk to DVRs or what shows up in the guide. But even the TiVo+ stuff is kind of nice. I doubt I'll use it but it has more value than I expected.

This device is the closest thing to the "one box" as I've seen, but I don't have linear cable anymore, so maybe my perspective is different than others. When did they start marketing that name? Roamio? (Roamio is the latest TiVo I have. I never upgraded to the Bolt or Edge.)

My main disappointment is the lack of Alexa support. I love just saying "Alexa pause" when I get up to go into the kitchen or restroom.


----------



## cwoody222

I started getting the black screen on my 2nd evening of use.

Turn it on, just a black screen. Only the guide button will make even a noise.

Without a way to reboot from the remote I have to get up to unplug it.

I did find rapidly pressing some Ed buttons freaks it out but just sends my tv into a fit where it turns on and off but still the TiVo doesn’t reboot.

After one reboot my pulling the plug the Stream app wouldn’t load due to a connectivity error. Had to reboot again.

I’m using USB power instead of the wall outlet which TiVo says causes this black screen so I guess this weekend I’m going to try to find a way to fit the wall plug behind my mounted set.


----------



## cwoody222

mrizzo80 said:


> It improves upon the Firestick 4K experience, which has been my tv source for the past year.
> 
> I haven't even run into metadata issues yet inside the Steam app, which I expected to. I searched for shows that recently hit Netflix and they were there.
> 
> The remote is better than I expected. It's a good middle ground between the Slide remote and the Firestick remote. I love the Peanut.
> 
> I have a YTTV subscription, but I rarely use it. I'm nearly all OTT. I couldn't care less that this thing can't talk to DVRs or what shows up in the guide. But even the TiVo+ stuff is kind of nice. I doubt I'll use it but it has more value than I expected.
> 
> This device is the closest thing to the "one box" as I've seen, but I don't have linear cable anymore, so maybe my perspective is different than others. When did they start marketing that name? Roamio? (Roamio is the latest TiVo I have. I never upgraded to the Bolt or Edge.)
> 
> My main disappointment is the lack of Alexa support. I love just saying "Alexa pause" when I get up to go into the kitchen or restroom.





mrizzo80 said:


> My main disappointment is the lack of Alexa support. I love just saying "Alexa pause" when I get up to go into the kitchen or restroom.


I miss this too. I have Alexa and lights in almost every room and use Alexa on my TiVo DVR's so I'm missing it on this device.


----------



## stuart628

cwoody222 said:


> I started getting the black screen on my 2nd evening of use.
> 
> Turn it on, just a black screen. Only the guide button will make even a noise.
> 
> Without a way to reboot from the remote I have to get up to unplug it.
> 
> I did find rapidly pressing some Ed buttons freaks it out but just sends my tv into a fit where it turns on and off but still the TiVo doesn't reboot.
> 
> After one reboot my pulling the plug the Stream app wouldn't load due to a connectivity error. Had to reboot again.
> 
> I'm using USB power instead of the wall outlet which TiVo says causes this black screen so I guess this weekend I'm going to try to find a way to fit the wall plug behind my mounted set.


Actually use voice and say settings...in settings go to apps...then show system apps..the android tv home click on android tv home and hit force stop...hit the circle button to go back home and it fires up...annoying yes but a workaround until they get it fixed which should be soon

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cybergrimes

or disable TiVo home screen row, havent had a single black screen since I did it. They should have just made it a regular optional row instead of some buggy process that locks it in place.

Guide: How to remove "TiVo Recommended" row from home screen


----------



## babsonnexus

All,

In case you have not seen it, I have been tracking all the issues you've mentioned and then some on this thread:

TiVo Stream 4K: Path to Perfection


Please feel free to note any of these and new issues you experience on that thread so I can make sure I'm capturing them all. There are a lot of threads going on now, so I'm sure I'm missing things!


----------



## stuart628

I need to walk back what I said, maybe it was just a first day thing, but my stream 4ks are now syncing the my shows section!!!


----------



## GBK33

babsonnexus said:


> All,
> 
> In case you have not seen it, I have been tracking all the issues you've mentioned and then some on this thread:
> 
> TiVo Stream 4K: Path to Perfection
> 
> 
> Please feel free to note any of these and new issues you experience on that thread so I can make sure I'm capturing them all. There are a lot of threads going on now, so I'm sure I'm missing things!


This is impressive, well done!


----------



## aaronwt

cybergrimes said:


> I like it because I wanted some reliable Android TV devices for secondary TVs without buying expensive Shields or Mi brand. I also like TiVo remotes, input button on streaming remote is huge for me (and works no problem for me). I expected it would be full sized though...


Doesn't the full size DVR remotes cost as much or more than the TiVo stream 4K.


----------



## cybergrimes

Sold for, sure, probably not much more cost to TiVo than this one. Tons of buttons, smaller plastic shell. I laid it next to a Roku remote and its like exactly the same length which I think was on purpose.


----------



## Bierboy

shwru980r said:


> Why?


Religious reasons.

And because I'm locked into the  ecosystem (which is FAR superior to Android)

Honestly the TiVo Stream is a piece of crap. Been using it for three weeks now, and it's junk compared to  TV


----------



## shwru980r

Bierboy said:


> Religious reasons.
> 
> And because I'm locked into the  ecosystem (which is FAR superior to Android)
> 
> Honestly the TiVo Stream is a piece of crap. Been using it for three weeks now, and it's junk compared to  TV


OK, sorry, I didn't mean to question your beliefs in any way. I'm not impressed with the stream either based on what I've read.


----------



## pldoolittle

cwoody222 said:


> I'm using USB power instead of the wall outlet which TiVo says causes this black screen so I guess this weekend I'm going to try to find a way to fit the wall plug behind my mounted set.


This behavior is common on the Raspberry pi with an insufficient power supply.

It may use a usb-c connector, but it's a 3A+ AC adapter.


----------



## leiff

Think I'm good or return my stream 4K and by either a fire stick or roku. I would probably keep this if it could control the volume of my soundbar. I know fire stick would control my sound bar.The reason I'm considering a roku is because its the only Box I know that supports the xfinity stream app. Anyone know if fire stick is easy to hack to support xfi stream app? Or can someone recommend me a roku that would also control my sound bar that's not expensive? 1080p is fine, thx!


----------



## philco782

Just received my TS4K. Have not had a chance to install it yet, busy with work etc... But the thing that strikes me is the likeness to the Edge, the design of the case is basically the same.

Is it true that I can't stream from my Tivo Edge to the TS4k? If so, this reminds me a little about how Apple removed USB-A ports from their Macbook, then they are happy to sell you an iPhone with only a USB-A cable...


----------



## rpenrod1

The more I play with the Tivo Stream 4K convinces me that I should pay the money and buy the Nvidia Shield Pro. Others have experience with the Shield?


----------



## cwoody222

philco782 said:


> Just received my TS4K. Have not had a chance to install it yet, busy with work etc... But the thing that strikes me is the likeness to the Edge, the design of the case is basically the same.
> 
> Is it true that I can't stream from my Tivo Edge to the TS4k? If so, this reminds me a little about how Apple removed USB-A ports from their Macbook, then they are happy to sell you an iPhone with only a USB-A cable...


Yes, as has been discussed a million times, the Stream does not connect to your DVR in any way.


----------



## aaronwt

rpenrod1 said:


> The more I play with the Tivo Stream 4K convinces me that I should pay the money and buy the Nvidia Shield Pro. Others have experience with the Shield?


I have several of the Shield TVs. They are easily better than the STream 4K. But they also cost three to four times as much. And have more processing power so they can be used to play games. But like every streamer they don't do everything. And you are still limited to what apps are available. Like no Apple+ on Google. And no HDR from Youtube.

The majority of use for my SHield TV boxes is playing my local UHD BD HDR rips with their lossless Atmos and DTS:X audio.


----------



## moyekj

I finally caved and bought a Fire Stick 4K from Amazon. For $50 which is same price as discounted TiVo Stream4K it will be interesting to compare the two. I think I'm going to like the Amazon stick better out of the box seeing as it supposedly has support for 10 sec skip back/forwards for Prime Video viewing which AndroidTV seems to be lacking.

I needed another streaming box for a 2nd TV but the TiVo Stream4K has not made a great impression on me yet to want to buy a 2nd.


----------



## aaronwt

Wait until Amazon day to pick up the FireTV 4K Stick for $25 or $30.


----------



## foghorn2

I like the Andriod Tv interface better than the Firestick, hopefully the new google Stick will be plain jane.


----------



## osu1991

My 4k Fire Sticks are still my favorites. 

The stream 4k isn't too bad now that it's been cleaned of the Tivo stuff. Like every device, it still has its quirks that annoy me. I have a 2nd one in the box I may go ahead and set up and leave stock to see if Tivo improves it or not.


----------



## Bierboy

shwru980r said:


> OK, sorry, I didn't mean to question your beliefs in any way. I'm not impressed with the stream either based on what I've read.


I was joking about the first reason...don't worry about it


----------



## aprest

Many of us have had to pull the plug on the TiVo Stream 4K to reboot it which is a pain. I now have it plugged into a smart plug so that I can ask Alexa to "turn off the TiVo Stream" and "turn on the TiVo Stream". Woks great and now I don't have to get up and physically pull the plug which in many cases is hard to get to.


----------



## Rikki_Rocket

aprest said:


> Many of us have had to pull the plug on the TiVo Stream 4K to reboot it which is a pain. I now have it plugged into a smart plug so that I can ask Alexa to "turn off the TiVo Stream" and "turn on the TiVo Stream". Woks great and now I don't have to get up and physically pull the plug which in many cases is hard to get to.


Alexa..."Add 4 Gig more memory to TiVo Stream"

Alexa..."Return TiVo Stream for a full refund"

BTW - Mine has only locked up once. I'm not doing a lot with it though. Mostly just playing Sling through TiVo Stream and Amazon Prime through Android TV.


----------



## aprest

Rikki_Rocket said:


> Alexa..."Add 4 Gig more memory to TiVo Stream"
> 
> Alexa..."Return TiVo Stream for a full refund"
> 
> BTW - Mine has only locked up once. I'm not doing a lot with it though. Mostly just playing Sling through TiVo Stream and Amazon Prime through Android TV.


I tried your first suggestion - it didn't work!


----------



## cybergrimes

aprest said:


> Many of us have had to pull the plug on the TiVo Stream 4K to reboot it which is a pain. I now have it plugged into a smart plug so that I can ask Alexa to "turn off the TiVo Stream" and "turn on the TiVo Stream". Woks great and now I don't have to get up and physically pull the plug which in many cases is hard to get to.


I've got a post in here about disabling the TiVo recommedations row, no lockups/black screens on either of the two that I've been using for a week since I did that. Something about that process is crashing the home screen I guess. Never seen anyone lock a row to the screen, guess they borked something.


----------



## cwoody222

Is there a way to disable Google from loudly repeating “here’s some information about...” every time I search for a show?


----------



## aprest

cybergrimes said:


> I've got a post in here about disabling the TiVo recommedations row, no lockups/black screens on either of the two that I've been using for a week since I did that. Something about that process is crashing the home screen I guess. Never seen anyone lock a row to the screen, guess they borked something.


That has not been my problem. My problem still has to do with CEC turning on my TV at random times. I have reduced the number of times but sometimes I need to reboot to stop it - that is for a few days and then it repeats this. TiVo needs to fix this CEC issue so that things like TiVo Stream and Roku AVR volume control works on all devices.


----------



## cybergrimes

aprest said:


> That has not been my problem. My problem still has to do with CEC turning on my TV at random times. I have reduced the number of times but sometimes I need to reboot to stop it - that is for a few days and then it repeats this. TiVo needs to fix this CEC issue so that things like TiVo Stream and Roku AVR volume control works on all devices.


Gotcha, sorry wasn't following correctly. I don't use CEC so haven't noticed this one ;/


----------



## cwoody222

What is the “Play Next” row that people are disabling even supposed to show?

Mine just constantly shows the same two shows, both from a service that I have enabled in TiVo Stream but that I’ve never used.

And one of the shows is a new show that I’ve never watched.

How are they “next”?


----------



## cwoody222

Guess we have the same old problem as with the DVRs. New shows don’t show up in search.

Searching for new Hulu show “The Great”, it can find it hit there no option to add it to the Stream app.

But I can add it to ReelGood app.

Come on, TiVo. This is your brand new product. People are watching.


----------



## cybergrimes

cwoody222 said:


> What is the "Play Next" row that people are disabling even supposed to show?
> 
> Mine just constantly shows the same two shows, both from a service that I have enabled in TiVo Stream but that I've never used.
> 
> And one of the shows is a new show that I've never watched.
> 
> How are they "next"?


That's an Android TV thing, I've always turned it off these years we've been using the platform. Often I think it shows me things I haven't finished/could be resumed. I never found it useful regardless. It's a bit weird for it to coexist with what TiVo is trying to do here.


----------



## aaronwt

cwoody222 said:


> What is the "Play Next" row that people are disabling even supposed to show?
> 
> Mine just constantly shows the same two shows, both from a service that I have enabled in TiVo Stream but that I've never used.
> 
> And one of the shows is a new show that I've never watched.
> 
> How are they "next"?


I've always used that row. It shows me content that I'm in the middle of watching. So I just select it, and the appropriate app opens up, goes to the show, and the show automatically starts and continues where I left off in the middle of an episode. It has been very helpful in my use with Android TV in remembering what I am in the middle of watching. Since I am typically watching multiple shows from multiple streaming apps on any given day.


----------



## aaronwt

Unless something changes in the next couple of weeks, I have decided to return both of my Stream 4K units. TiVo support has been anything but helpful. Everytime I send them a question about always on HDR, they respond with an answer that has absolutely nothing to do with HDR. One example was them saying to set the display for best output of something to that effect. Which has nothing to do with always on HDR.

I like the cost, size, and speed of the STream 4K units. As well as rock solid wifi, good picture etc. But I really don't want to deal with this stuff just hoping they will fix it. The past history of TiVo shows they move very slowly, if they move at all. The Stream 4K has great potential, but for me always on HDR is a deal breaker.


----------



## mattyro7878

mrizzo80 said:


> I really like this device so far. I guess I'm in the minority.


Squeaky wheels.


----------



## cwoody222

If I leave my TV’s I out left on the Stream and turn the set off, when I turn it on, sometimes the input is just listed as AML_MBOX.

My TV will then likely reboot and then when it comes back, the Stream is properly labeled again and working.

Could this be related to me using a USB port to charge? I tried again and there’s no easy way I’m going to be able to plug it into an outlet.


----------



## mrizzo80

There is Android-level functionally to re-order the apps. 

Shouldn’t the “Apps” row in the home screen honor this configuration? It doesn’t.


----------



## cybergrimes

mrizzo80 said:


> There is Android-level functionally to re-order the apps.
> 
> Shouldn't the "Apps" row in the home screen honor this configuration? It doesn't.


What do you mean? You re-order the home screen apps row independent of the apps drawer.


----------



## mrizzo80

cybergrimes said:


> What do you mean? You re-order the home screen apps row independent of the apps drawer.


Thanks.

For those that don't know, a long press on the home screen apps will allow you to move/remove (most) of them.


----------



## cybergrimes

mrizzo80 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> For those that don't know, a long press on the home screen apps will allow you to move/remove (most) of them.


Glad you sorted it out. Also for any of the app content rows you've setup (YouTube, Vudu, whatever) you can usually press the app icon at the beginning of the row as a shortcut. I have a row for my YouTube subscription content so I don't keep YouTube on the main app row of the home screen.


----------



## Victor White

foghorn2 said:


> Right, just because an app is on Google Play, it does not mean its a new updated app or compatible (whitelisted) with this device. Hence issues with Hulu and Prime. AppleTv is on FTV, an andriod app, but that does not mean they allow it on these devices. The providers are calling the shots. They are making it impossible for a truly unifying ultimate experience. They are going to favor their own devices, something Tivo cant even do with their own DVR for F'ks sake.


I have had 2 devices now for 2 weeks and also have Hulu live and also Prime. I have no problems with either one of the 4K Stream using these apps plus I have Disney+, Sling, Netflix and they work as good as on my Roku, Apple TV or the Firestick.


----------



## cwoody222

Victor White said:


> I have had 2 devices now for 2 weeks and also have Hulu live and also Prime. I have no problems with either one of the 4K Stream using these apps plus I have Disney+, Sling, Netflix and they work as good as on my Roku, Apple TV or the Firestick.


Same. I've been watching Hulu and Prime and Netflix and the apps themselves work fine.

It's the TiVo app and/or Google search that's wonky.


----------



## GBK33

I'm hoping an update comes soon, anyone heard any news?


----------



## Twendel

babsonnexus said:


> All,
> 
> In case you have not seen it, I have been tracking all the issues you've mentioned and then some on this thread:
> 
> TiVo Stream 4K: Path to Perfection
> 
> 
> Please feel free to note any of these and new issues you experience on that thread so I can make sure I'm capturing them all. There are a lot of threads going on now, so I'm sure I'm missing things!


Thanks for the summary Babsonnexus, and for the valuable input of other contributors. 
I have two issues I'd like to add.
First, is expanding system storage but losing installed apps afterwards. Formatting an external drive as a system drive appears as an option home screen notification that the drive is recognized. It works. The BIG HOWEVER, is that apps that install to the drive do not show up as user apps on the menu, though they can be found by digging into system apps. (Note, I am aware of the setting in developer options to allow all apps to install to added drive, but did not do that before seeing this bug).
Second, it appears that the TCM app is not available or supported.


----------



## mattyro7878

Tell ya what...om watching Star Trek3 the search for spock. I've seen it 30 times but never like this. It's in 4k and in spite of being well over 30 yrs old it looks incredible . Score one for the Stream4k


----------



## rczrider

GBK33 said:


> I'm hoping an update comes soon, anyone heard any news?


Nope, but they have until June 4 to make it happen. According to the CSR, I have until June 6 to contact TiVo for an RMA and since I don't trust them, I'm cutting it off at June 4. That's 8 days, TiVo. You have 8 days to convince me to keep this device (which I want to do!).


----------



## RIKNIK

rczrider said:


> Nope, but they have until June 4 to make it happen. According to the CSR, I have until June 6 to contact TiVo for an RMA and since I don't trust them, I'm cutting it off at June 4. That's 8 days, TiVo. You have 8 days to convince me to keep this device (which I want to do!).


DITTO x 10


----------



## BillyClyde

TiVo Stream 4K $49.99 intro price extended until June 25, 2020.


----------



## ElT60

BillyClyde said:


> TiVo Stream 4K $49.99 intro price extended until June 25, 2020.
> ...


 Perhaps an indication of when the substantive bug fixes are coming. June 16-23 window. Going full price now probably wouldn't work all that well. ( long term probably better to "write off" the extended period to get more beta testing done. )

If the competitive systems roll out new upgrades ( new AppleTV , Google's rumored Ultra+AndroidTV , etc. ) before get their software fixed this product will be in a 'bad' place. Amazon threw 'gas on the fire' with the sale on Fire 4K sticks. ( even lower price $39 at the moment. ).

Creating some synergy with Tivo DVRs or Full sizes Tivo remote or something. There is another tweet in that trying to fold in the HBO Max catalog into their guide listings... so 'backfilling' on that too which will take time.


----------



## GBK33

Now I seem to be having wifi connection problem. It says connected but no internet. Have reset router and having no issues on any other connected devices. Anyone seeing this?


----------



## aaronwt

I hope not. It's rock solid WiFi was one of the best things with the Stream 4K.


----------



## cwoody222

ElT60 said:


> Perhaps an indication of when the substantive bug fixes are coming. June 16-23 window. Going full price now probably wouldn't work all that well. ( long term probably better to "write off" the extended period to get more beta testing done. )
> 
> If the competitive systems roll out new upgrades ( new AppleTV , Google's rumored Ultra+AndroidTV , etc. ) before get their software fixed this product will be in a 'bad' place. Amazon threw 'gas on the fire' with the sale on Fire 4K sticks. ( even lower price $39 at the moment. ).
> 
> Creating some synergy with Tivo DVRs or Full sizes Tivo remote or something. There is another tweet in that trying to fold in the HBO Max catalog into their guide listings... so 'backfilling' on that too which will take time.


I highly doubt an extension on the price discount is tied to any software update schedule.

I'd also not hold your breath for a major upgrade such as DVR access or new remote options so soon after release. The device hasn't even been out a month.


----------



## rczrider

ElT60 said:


> Amazon threw 'gas on the fire' with the sale on Fire 4K sticks. ( even lower price $39 at the moment. ).


I only paid $25 for mine (one of several Fire Stick 4K Prime member promos that have happened since it launched) and I'd still argue that the TS4K is a good buy depending on your needs. Obviously some folks are having more trouble than others because of their particular use-case, but if nothing else, this is an upgrade Chromecast Ultra for $50. That's $20 cheaper than the 3.5-year old Ultra.

And unless Google surprises us with an Ultra 2 that's closer to a Shield in terms of performance, the TS4K can reasonably be assumed to be identical (in terms of hardware) to the Ultra 2.


----------



## ElT60

rczrider said:


> I only paid $25 for mine (one of several Fire Stick 4K Prime member promos that have happened since it launched) and I'd still argue that the TS4K is a good buy depending on your needs. Obviously some folks are having more trouble than others because of their particular use-case, but if nothing else, this is an upgrade Chromecast Ultra for $50. That's $20 cheaper than the 3.5-year old Ultra.


 Not really talking about Amazon to hit Tivo with a 1-2 time a year "red light"/"prime member"/"black Friday" special. Talking more so about "hey these guys are having a tough time with buggy roll out".... hit them to a discount on our product while more folks are actively looking for alternatives. Tivo's extended marketing campaign got folks looking who may have been waiting or just not looking around at all. And then stumble out of the gate. ( to be fair the 4K Stick have problems out of the gate. AppleTV 4K wasn't making super high end A/V standard equipment folks happy either out the gate either. )



> And unless Google surprises us with an Ultra 2 that's closer to a Shield in terms of performance, the TS4K can reasonably be assumed to be identical (in terms of hardware) to the Ultra 2.


 Yeah. Pretty much expecting it to be the ADT-3 polished up and placed into a box with more substantial industry design.

"Why Normal folks shouldn't buy a ADT-3... " 
Google ADT-3: Android TV on a dongle you shouldn't buy - 9to5Google

But to think this is the baseline Android TV 10 development box and then Google to highly deviate from it for their own retail product... probably not. If folks spent time tuning for it, might as well just leverage that effort.

I think the biggest difference is going is going to be the remotes rather trying to match Nvidia Shield pricing. It won't be "performance". ( The only gaming tie in would be to Stadia; not on system. ) More likely it will be software completeness ( on a couple of dimensions: content integration/orgaization , "Smarter" Google Assistant (more AI/ML value add), support and upgrades , etc. ) . Also on the remote control. That is a huge leap over the Chromecast which didn't have one at all. Ultra 2 does an "affordable" one or tries some innovation there. Or opens a window for more remote options. [ Wouldn't be too surprising for an Ultra 2 package that didn't have a remote sold "cheaper" than one that did come with a remote. No remote defaults to set up more so as Chromecast 'mode' (just take 'jobs' from other casting devices, and with paired remote bring up rest of interactive screen. ] I'm not expecting Ultra 2 to land at the same price at current one with the remote included.


----------



## aaronwt

ElT60 said:


> Not really talking about Amazon to hit Tivo with a 1-2 time a year "red light"/"prime member"/"black Friday" special. Talking more so about "hey these guys are having a tough time with buggy roll out".... hit them to a discount on our product while more folks are actively looking for alternatives. Tivo's extended marketing campaign got folks looking who may have been waiting or just not looking around at all. And then stumble out of the gate. ( to be fair the 4K Stick have problems out of the gate. AppleTV 4K wasn't making super high end A/V standard equipment folks happy either out the gate either. )
> ............


I remember returning my Fire TV 4K Sticks a few weeks after they first launched. I wasn't going to deal with the same issues they had when the previous UHD FireTV had launched a year before. They had similar issues and more. But after a couple of months Amazon got things working properly. So then I purchased some more FireTV 4K sticks. Only it cost me much less than the launch price. So it worked out in the end for me.

But with the TiVo Stream 4K, I will be returning those too. But I won't expect to be able to get it for a lower price later on though. If I decide to purchase them again. Assuming they can even fix the issues they have.

There are just too many other streaming options now. Not like many years ago when there were only a few. So I would put up with launch issues until they were fixed. But I will not do that any more.


----------



## markjrenna

I just bought one. Arrives in a few days. I wanted to support TiVo. Am I going to hate it? Did I make a mistake?


----------



## RIKNIK

markjrenna said:


> I just bought one. Arrives in a few days. I wanted to support TiVo. Am I going to hate it? Did I make a mistake?


If you don't care about Dolby Vision, HDR, and HDR plus and auto settings that seemingly don't work, then no. I just want to say, they made some very bold claims about this unit, none of them factual. It should not have been released like this. I just ordered a fire tv cube, which I know supports all the HDR formats and Dolby Atmos. If the Stream 4k isn't updated by the time the cube arrives and is setup, I will keep the cube and return the TIVO 4k stream. How it got passed their engineers with these flaws is beyond me.


----------



## moyekj

markjrenna said:


> I just bought one. Arrives in a few days. I wanted to support TiVo. Am I going to hate it? Did I make a mistake?


Besides all the hardware/firmware related issues mentioned above, the TiVo software app that runs on it is pretty much junk/worthless. It's a very feeble attempt at aggregation that other apps such as Reelgood do better and the TiVo streaming show database is full of holes (same as when using TiVo DVR and searching for streaming info). It's basically a complete embarrassment as released. Even if they solve the hardware/firmware related issues the TiVo streaming database will continue to be full of holes just as it has been for many years now so I don't ever expect that to improve at this point.

Having said that, there are threads in this forum on disabling many of the TiVo overlays and CEC and some other things that can fix some issues, and if you use it with a non 4K HDTV and use Reelgood app for aggregation it works OK. So I'm keeping the one I bought for my wife to use that way. For myself I find the Fire TV 4K stick a vastly superior option and is what I'm using.


----------



## Bierboy

markjrenna said:


> I just bought one. Arrives in a few days. I wanted to support TiVo. *Am I going to hate it? Did I make a mistake?*


IMO, yes and yes. But that's just me.


----------



## markjrenna

Well it arrives Sunday. Guess I will try it and I suppose I have 30 days to return it. Sad.


----------



## rczrider

markjrenna said:


> Well it arrives Sunday. Guess I will try it and I suppose I have 30 days to return it. Sad.


Be aware that return shipping may be out of your pocket. There's no mention of the TS4K on that page and some folks have claimed that they received a full refund, but it's unclear. If you're really on the fence, you may want to consider refusing delivery.

I'm still not sure if I'll return mine (I have a couple of more days left), but I will say that if you had any interest in getting a Chromecast 4K, that particular function works flawlessly and you won't find a cheaper device that does it.


----------



## markjrenna

Thank you for the shipping info. We should create a poll. I wonder how many are sending them back as opposed to keeping it. Are they making frequent updates or not at all?


----------



## rczrider

markjrenna said:


> Are they making frequent updates or not at all?


It required an update when it was first powered on, but I don't think there have been any since.

It's only been about a month since release, though, and in TiVo's defense, it does take time to make the update, test, and push out. Don't get me wrong: this thing was buggy from day one and clearly would have benefited from more (or any?) beta testing before release.

I am 100% confident that they will release at least one update in June and possibly another in July-August. I'm guessing the first one will address easy things (maybe opening up some of the hidden A/V settings and turning off mandatory HDR). Maybe the CEC issues. My complaints with the TS4K are relatively minor, but still borderline deal-breakers (like the aforementioned always-on HDR). CEC seems to be a huge problem for folks and one of the bigger reasons to send it back.


----------



## aaronwt

rczrider said:


> Be aware that return shipping may be out of your pocket. There's no mention of the TS4K on that page and some folks have claimed that they received a full refund, but it's unclear. If you're really on the fence, you may want to consider refusing delivery.
> 
> I'm still not sure if I'll return mine (I have a couple of more days left), but I will say that if you had any interest in getting a Chromecast 4K, that particular function works flawlessly and you won't find a cheaper device that does it.


They better not be charging me shipping for a defective product. If they do I will need to take it up with my credit card company. Because my TiVo Stream 4k is easily defective. Either that or they launched it with Beta(or worse, Alpha software). Either case should result with free return shipping.


----------



## aaronwt

rczrider said:


> It required an update when it was first powered on, but I don't think there have been any since.
> 
> It's only been about a month since release, though, and in TiVo's defense, it does take time to make the update, test, and push out. Don't get me wrong: this thing was buggy from day one and clearly would have benefited from more (or any?) beta testing before release.
> 
> I am 100% confident that they will release at least one update in June and possibly another in July-August. I'm guessing the first one will address easy things (maybe opening up some of the hidden A/V settings and turning off mandatory HDR). Maybe the CEC issues. My complaints with the TS4K are relatively minor, but still borderline deal-breakers (like the aforementioned always-on HDR). CEC seems to be a huge problem for folks and one of the bigger reasons to send it back.


You mean easy things that could have easily been addressed before the launch? Yet they decided to launch it anyway with borked software.

To me it seems like the people at TiVo working on this, never even tried using it themselves. If they did, they should be ashamed of the state of the STream 4K when it was released. Because I would like to know why they thought this was ready to be released.


----------



## rczrider

aaronwt said:


> They better not be charging me shipping for a defective product. If they do I will need to take it up with my credit card company. Because my TiVo Stream 4k is easily defective. Either that or they launched it with Beta(or worse, Alpha software). Either case should result with free return shipping.


While I don't disagree in principle, I also don't think they ever advertised free return shipping, nor does any page on their site indicate that return shipping is free if the product is defective (in fact, it says the opposite, that buyer is always responsible for return shipping).

And don't get me wrong: if I return it next week, I will absolutely expect free return shipping given that they (probably) released a device they knew wasn't ready for primetime (though they not have realized just how bad it was).

I just think it's important to understand that there's a difference between good customer service (free return shipping due to it being defective) and policy (which is pretty clear that return shipping is on us).


aaronwt said:


> You mean easy things that could have easily been addressed before the launch? Yet they decided to launch it anyway with borked software.
> 
> To me it seems like the people at TiVo working on this, never even tried using it themselves. If they did, they should be ashamed of the state of the STream 4K when it was released. Because I would like to know why they thought this was ready to be released.


I know little about TiVo since I've never owned or used anything by them before now, but from what I've gathered, my guess is that this thing was probably outsourced. The TiVo Stream app may have been done in-house, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find out they gave a developer specs ("HDR is great, make sure they always have that available!" and "WTF is CEC, that's not important.") turned it on when they got some sample units, and decided it looked good. Based on the survey, they're really focusing on the Stream app (both its current functionality and future improvements) and so that's likely the bulk of what they tested.

Again, just my guess.


----------



## RIKNIK

Just wondering if TIVO monitors this forum? I have been on other product forums where the company actually has a presence and actually addresses questions and complaints. Is it to much to ask that a company spokesperson address these issues or are they so embarrassed of this product launch that they are ignoring customer issues.


----------



## rczrider

RIKNIK said:


> Just wondering if TIVO monitors this forum? I have been on other product forums where the company actually has a presence and actually addresses questions and complaints. Is it to much to ask that a company spokesperson address these issues or are they so embarrassed of this product launch that they are ignoring customer issues.


The survey mentioned this forum, so they're at least aware of it. tivopm is an active(ish) user in the TiVo sub on reddit who (supposedly) works for TiVo.


----------



## Joe3

aaronwt said:


> You mean easy things that could have easily been addressed before the launch? Yet they decided to launch it anyway with borked software.
> 
> To me it seems like the people at TiVo working on this, never even tried using it themselves. If they did, they should be ashamed of the state of the STream 4K when it was released. Because I would like to know why they thought this was ready to be released.


Some here are in a classic state of denial after the acquisition of TiVo by the non tech company, Rovi. Clearly, this is not the first time Rovi has aimed the TiVo ship into the rocks. The first time Rovi steered this ship to wreck, shame on them. The second time, shame on us for ignoring the first time. But the third time Rovi attempts to steer the TiVo ship into the rocks is clearly no accident! As difficult as it is for some to accept, it's being done deliberately.

The TiVo's Board and Rovi need to be investigated for conflicts of interest!


----------



## rczrider

Joe3 said:


> Some here are in a classic state of denial after the acquisition of TiVo by the non tech company, Rovi. Clearly, this is not the first time Rovi has aimed the TiVo ship into the rocks. The first time Rovi steered this ship to wreck, shame on them. The second time, shame on us for ignoring the first time. But the third time Rovi attempts to steer the TiVo ship into the rocks is clearly no accident! As difficult as it is for some to accept, it's being done deliberately.
> 
> The TiVo's Board and Rovi need to be investigated for conflicts of interest!


I know nothing of which you speak, but always remember Hanlon's razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."


----------



## Joe3

rczrider said:


> I know nothing of which you speak, but always remember Hanlon's razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."


Or perhaps, it's better for the stupid to think them stupid. Rather than reveal themselves and be caught.


----------



## ElT60

Joe3 said:


> Some here are in a classic state of denial after the acquisition of TiVo by the non tech company, Rovi. Clearly, this is not the first time Rovi has aimed the TiVo ship into the rocks. ....
> ....
> The TiVo's Board and Rovi need to be investigated for conflicts of interest!


 Rovi and Tivo are not two distinct entities. The Tivo board of directors is the 'Rovi' board of directions. Not sure how get conflicts of interest when the same folks on the exact same board. ( The Rovi name primarily got dropped in that 2016 acquisition).

A contributing issue is probably
TiVo prepares to split its business into two as it pursues sale - TechCrunch
Followed by
"...Today, the company announced those plans have been put on hold as it has instead merged with technology licensor Xperi Corporation, in a $3 billion deal. ..."
TiVo merges with technology licensor Xperi in $3 billion deal - TechCrunch

I don't think this deal is technically complete, but there is clearly some "fog" as to who is going to be in charge when it is done. Xperi makes most money on IP but is more physical tech IP. Maybe that is happy medium that will help the Tivo subset or they'll just spin it out. Most of the Tivo(Rovi) board isn't going to make it through the merger. So there is a new "sheriff' coming to town. But in part that also creates some 'fog' . So the quote above has a good chance of being close to appropriate. ( technically may not be overt stupidity but "not knowing , not skilled " probably plays a role. )

P.S. I think "steering" was the problem. More so lack of steering. It wouldn't be surprising if this streaming box has multiple different objectives at differnt points along the development. For example, the number keys on the remote and then the Tivo App basically ignoring and/or not enabling them in some clear function is probably due to a change of direction. ( at one point tighter integration with OTA was a key objective and then someone late in development waves arms and it wasn't. ). the Tivo suggestions on the AndroidTV home screen ( that seem to be disruptive ) probably a relatively late addition. (and fails). The zig-zagging on objectives probably played a role in its current state.


----------



## Bierboy

The really sad thing about this is there are SO many other better options (both in that price range as well as out of it)...and I've tried several. And stuck with the  TV 4K on my main TV and the Roku Express and Ultra on our other two.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

RIKNIK said:


> Just wondering if TIVO monitors this forum? I have been on other product forums where the company actually has a presence and actually addresses questions and complaints. Is it to much to ask that a company spokesperson address these issues or are they so embarrassed of this product launch that they are ignoring customer issues.


We used to feel listened to here. The TiVo VP/GM of Consumer Business was active on this forum we call TCF, but no longer works for TiVo. A few others were here but are now gone from TiVo and TCF now too. They were probably the targets of negativity more often than they received useful feedback and appreciation for their efforts, so I'm not surprised nobody else wants to be visible here now. I also doubt the company in its latest incarnation is encouraging it.

TiVo employees do interact with users for specific testing and survey purposes on the Facebook Group called TiVo.Innovate. I'm not in the other Facebook Groups, so can't comment on those. Plus there's that person on Reddit someone mentioned up thread.


----------



## Joe3

ElT60 said:


> Rovi and Tivo are not two distinct entities. The Tivo board of directors is the 'Rovi' board of directions. Not sure how get conflicts of interest when the same folks on the exact same board. ( The Rovi name primarily got dropped in that 2016 acquisition).


 I don't know why there is such a lack of knowledge about how a Board of Directors works. I've served on a number of boards and I chaired some as well. A good board does not have members working for the company and should be independent entities or it's not really a board. The Board oversees the workings of the company. The Board of Directors is usually responsible for hiring the CEO. The Board of directors is usually made up of people who are in the field of the mission of the corporation they serve. You have some politicians on the board. Also, you have some people who are in the field of the technology and you sometimes have just ordinary citizens.

Again, the board is responsible for the hiring of the CEO which has been a big TiVo problem. It is the board members background, resumes that have to be look at for any conflicts of interest that they might have with the technology of the company and or its expansion.

Let's just say you have someone on the board or a few members of the board that are coming from a competitive fields of technology and who might not indirectly benefit from the TiVo success, but by TiVo failure. No one really knows because this isn't much of a public Board and its behavior is suspicious based on the choices of past CEOs.

Some boards aren't any good. They have lousy rules of engagement. They could have proxy voting. They could have distant proxy voting and not even be present for votes. They could be voting without a quorum. It could be one guy doing and making all the decisions. The board has to be investigated. It's too much of a coincidence that they keep making the same mistakes over and over and over again. Somethings wrong there and it Has to be investigated because that's where the problem is stemming from. Not the poor saps who are left to engineer this debacle. But right at the top. Beyond the CEOs to the clowns in the clown car that keeps hiring bad CEO's. Maybe they hire based on personal relationships and if their friends or family members of a particular Board member. No one really knows. The board of TiVo has to be investigated for irregularities in voting and rules, if any. No one knows How these guys/gals operate. But their results are always miserable and not adequate enough, and don't meet the standard enough, results. Poor results are strewn across all these threads and that much is clear. So many people can't be wrong. Can't be lying about their experience which is mostly piss pot poor.


----------



## GBK33

markjrenna said:


> I just bought one. Arrives in a few days. I wanted to support TiVo. Am I going to hate it? Did I make a mistake?


I don't think so, I'm liking it more and more every day. With some firmware and feature upgrades it will be great


----------



## aaronwt

This morning I reset the Stream 4K that I had been trying out.

So a few minutes ago I finally called today to return both of my Stream 4K units. They said I would not be charged for return shipping and would get a full refund. I guess I'll see if that will actually be the case.

I figured they would have me ship both of them back in the same box. One hasn't even been opened yet. But they sent me two shipping labels and the CSR said I need to return each one separately.

Of course I just threw out all my small boxes. Now I'll need to find a couple at work that will work with the FedEx return label.

I might revisit the Stream 4K in the future. But the always on HDR and HDMI-CEC issues are just too big of a deal for me to have to deal with. When there is no way to know if or when it will ever be fixed properly. 

I had hoped there would have been a quick update to address some of the issues. But there has been no update after the initial update I had on May 9th. After i first setup the Stream 4K.


----------



## trip1eX

ElT60 said:


> Rovi and Tivo are not two distinct entities. The Tivo board of directors is the 'Rovi' board of directions. Not sure how get conflicts of interest when the same folks on the exact same board. ( The Rovi name primarily got dropped in that 2016 acquisition).
> 
> A contributing issue is probably
> TiVo prepares to split its business into two as it pursues sale - TechCrunch
> Followed by
> "...Today, the company announced those plans have been put on hold as it has instead merged with technology licensor Xperi Corporation, in a $3 billion deal. ..."
> TiVo merges with technology licensor Xperi in $3 billion deal - TechCrunch
> 
> I don't think this deal is technically complete, but there is clearly some "fog" as to who is going to be in charge when it is done. Xperi makes most money on IP but is more physical tech IP. Maybe that is happy medium that will help the Tivo subset or they'll just spin it out. Most of the Tivo(Rovi) board isn't going to make it through the merger. So there is a new "sheriff' coming to town. But in part that also creates some 'fog' . So the quote above has a good chance of being close to appropriate. ( technically may not be overt stupidity but "not knowing , not skilled " probably plays a role. )


Xperi and Tivo are officially merged as of today. TIVO stock symbol is no more. IT's XPER now.

I read after the Xperi merger that the plan is to still spin off the company into 2 parts - IP and Product.

One of the plans for the combined company is to embed the STream 4k on connected tvs. Xperi has relationships with all the tv manufacturers. Similar thing in automotive. They want to use Tivo's metadata search to combine with their HD Radio product and automotive relationships.

I take it Shull is no longer CEO. Jon Kirchner is the CEO of Xperi.

Xperi Holding Corporation - Investor Relations


----------



## Mikeguy

Let's see if anyone new knows what a DVR is, or cares.


----------



## ElT60

Mikeguy said:


> Let's see if anyone new knows what a DVR is, or cares.


" ...The platform will combine Xperi Corporation's leading product offerings in the home, auto and mobile device ecosystems with TiVo Corporation's best-in-class content aggregation, discovery and recommendation engines - creating unique opportunities for content providers, consumer electronics manufacturers and automotive makers. ...
... and bring new and exciting inventions to is licensing customers. ...
... we will be well positioned to achieve even better patent monetization outcomes, greater cash flow generation and long-term value creation." ... "
Xperi and TiVo Complete Merger

If a DVR is a 'content aggregator' then perhaps care. But they are probably not going to directly contract the construction or in some case do primary design physical hardware themselves.

However, if "content aggregator' is the Tivo Guide app on Android TV then a bad sign. If it is the "Tivo next up" on the Android TV home screen even worse sign.

It is harder when a company does several things to talk to the investors about each the smaller value add business. ( they mainly just want to hear about the higher margin stuff that will float the stock price higher. ). I wouldn't necessarily draw deep conclusions on dot the i's and cross the t's of the DVR/Streaming segment from the press release. But it is somewhat indicative that they probably will be looking to spin out heavy duty production product development if they can. Not sure what the good candidates would be .


----------



## Furmaniac

I was wondering if anybody had tried Xumo on it. You can't change channels and you can't get to the guide set back button shows the Guide for a half a second. Works fine on my fire stick and Roku.

As others have noted here I find Pluto much much better than TiVo Plus. Do you think we can expect Pluto to be integrated into TiVo's guide?

Sling is free for everyone while we're home with the Coronavirus pandemic. There is no signing in necessary. But TiVo has not chosen to put sling into the Guide for people who are using it in that matter... that's a shame. People might subscribe to Sling if they like it integrated into TiVo guide and as long as it's free I think TiVo has made one of their usual mistakes there.

TiVo sent me a survey about the stick and I let them have it. The search is very inaccurate. There are programs on Disney Plus and on Prime which give search results showng info but with no button to press to take you to an app. Some just ignore Prime and say it's only on Google Play Movies when that's not so. ..
And when it's only on Google Play, you can't add it to My Shows.

I like neither the main Android screen nor the TiVo screens. Very busy & complicated. RUKO is organized so nicely.


----------



## eherberg

Furmaniac said:


> Sling is free for everyone while we're home with the Coronavirus pandemic. There is no signing in necessary.


The Sling 'Happy Hour Across America' promotion ended on May 15th.


----------



## trip1eX

Furmaniac said:


> As others have noted here I find Pluto much much better than TiVo Plus. Do you think we can expect Pluto to be integrated into TiVo's guide?


Pluto TV Added to TiVo+ Content Network | Broadcasting+Cable


----------



## aaronwt

trip1eX said:


> actually i read PlutoTV content is going to be incorporated into Tivo+.
> 
> Pluto TV Added to TiVo+ Content Network | Broadcasting+Cable



Great, another option with commercials. The last thing I want to do is to watch content with commercials.

It's like things keep going backwards. These streaming services are trying to simulate the way TV was watched in the 70's and earlier. The last thing I want to do it go back to how I watched TV in the 70's. With no way to pause, rewind, FF etc.


----------



## ElT60

Furmaniac said:


> I was wondering if anybody had tried Xumo on it. You can't change channels and you can't get to the guide set back button shows the Guide for a half a second. Works fine on my fire stick and Roku.
> 
> As others have noted here I find Pluto much much better than TiVo Plus. Do you think we can expect Pluto to be integrated into TiVo's guide?


 Eventually. ( I suspect probably on DVRs first).

"... On Tuesday, TiVo announced a partnership with Pluto TV that will give TiVo device owners one-click access to Pluto TV's over 250 live, linear and ad-supported channels and its thousands of movies and TV shows on demand as a part of TiVo's own ad-supported video network, TiVo+. .." 
Pluto TV expands with addition of CBS Sports HQ, new deals with TiVo and Verizon - TechCrunch

Eventually. Both PlutoTV and XUMO have been acquired. XUMO by Comcast.

Comcast Acquires XUMO

At least one of these may be "folded into" the other offers those two larger shops have. ( NBC has "free peacock" just with ads. ). Both moves may disrupt the licensing deals that the content from other content block sellers those shops may have landed because they weren't the "big enemy". Tubi was bought up also ( Fox ).

The approach to live TV on the Stream 4k's app seems to be conflicted by all of the possible options.


----------



## trip1eX

aaronwt said:


> Great, another option with commercials. The last thing I want to do is to watch content with commercials.
> 
> It's like things keep going backwards. These streaming services are trying to simulate the way TV was watched in the 70's and earlier. The last thing I want to do it go back to how I watched TV in the 70's. With no way to pause, rewind, FF etc.


Yeah but it's free. And the content on Pluto is old and can be found on commercial free sources.


----------



## ElT60

aaronwt said:


> Great, another option with commercials. The last thing I want to do is to watch content with commercials.
> ...


 Well a large number of folks want "free" ( no monthly payment) service. But yes Tivo has aggregated a highly skewed amount of folks who do not like commercials onto their product and coupled that sentiment to the brand somewhat. Tivo probably would have better results if looked into how people could pay to make the commercials go away ( and distribute the money to streams whose ads dumped so ). Tivo would have data as to how many do skip things and don't.


----------



## waynomo

I just received my Stream and haven't read a post in this thread so if it's been answered just point me in the correct direction.

I didn't realize there was no Ethernet connection and the the WiFi in the location where I would use the stream is quite frankly pretty poor. A quick search result showed this Reddit post


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/Tivo/comments/gg2li3

where they say that this adapter

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N1X28F...8cfba5084a33c82b0280aac11f706d&language=en_US

will let the Stream connect via Ethernet. It's only 100 Mbps, but that should be enough for 4K HDTV, yes?

Anybody have any experience with this issue?

Is there a better solution out there?


----------



## keithg1964

I got better results on my firestick via wifi than i did when I purchased an adapter for it.


----------



## waynomo

keithg1964 said:


> I got better results on my firestick via wifi than i did when I purchased an adapter for it.


The WiFi signal in my basement is fairly poor. I plan to do some network upgrades (maybe add a mesh network) in the future, but for the time being WiFi is not usable for for video down there. I did a test and I was running a bit over 1 Mbps. That's not acceptable for even SD video.


----------



## RIKNIK

RIKNIK said:


> I have not been able to get Dolby Vision or HDR10 to work. As I was trying different settings Dolby Vision seems to work with 1080p and 4k30 if I turn the Full UHD off on my TV's input settings, but auto settings do not work at all. Actually, I don't think any HDR is working, it is just the forced HDR on the TIVO unit.
> Built in TV apps work fine with Dolby Vision and HDR10 and 10+ and so does my Firestick 4K.
> Also, post 1766 by aprest is totally right on. Same problems here. How these problems got past beta testing is beyond me. Most likely TIVO released this knowing it has many problems. We are paying $50 to beta test a flawed unit. This is totally unacceptable. I bought this because of the stated ability to pass 4k HDR programs. This is not only not ready for prime time, it should never have been released with these flaws. Very unethical!


Submitted this issue to TIVO support on 5/13. Received a reply yesterday 6-1. They sent me a link to the operation manual, totally ignoring the issue. The worst customer support I have ever encountered. Returning the 4k stream tomorrow if there is no fix. These guys absolutely have no clue.


----------



## aaronwt

RIKNIK said:


> Submitted this issue to TIVO support on 5/13. Received a reply yesterday 6-1. They sent me a link to the operation manual, totally ignoring the issue. The worst customer support I have ever encountered. Returning the 4k stream tomorrow if there is no fix. These guys absolutely have no clue.


That sounds similar to my customer service experience with the STream 4K. They were clueless.


----------



## ptcfast2

Called it: Exclusive: This is Google's Android TV dongle, remote, and new UI

The Stream was rushed out because Google's device is about to happen...I think it might even use the same SoC xD


----------



## moyekj

ptcfast2 said:


> Called it: Exclusive: This is Google's Android TV dongle, remote, and new UI
> 
> The Stream was rushed out because Google's device is about to happen...I think it might even use the same SoC xD


Looks like a dud for my interests - no dedicated remote buttons for ff/rew if the picture shown of the remote is correct.


----------



## mdavej

moyekj said:


> Looks like a dud for my interests - no dedicated remote buttons for ff/rew if the picture shown of the remote is correct.


Yeah, Chromecast desperately needed a GUI and a remote, but this one ain't gonna cut it. Sad to see they just copied everything people hate about the Apple remote. You'd think remote buttons were a million dollars each they way everybody skimps on them. Come on, give me enough buttons to operate the damn thing.

Hard pass. Next...


----------



## ElT60

moyekj said:


> Looks like a dud for my interests - no dedicated remote buttons for ff/rew if the picture shown of the remote is correct.


 the picture with the buttons in play view is hard to see if there is another row further done. . But there is a picture of FCC filing above in profile seems to suggest there is just 3 rows. Since this device is focused on YouTube TV the 'right' / 'left' of the 4 way rocker above will just work.

Not sure what the GUI guidelines for Android TV 10 are but that might be a standard that apps should be adherent to. Go left or right on the timeline is more than a straightforward than trying to map back to physical buttons on a long ago VCR. If left / right navigates the general top level interface why do you and a whole another set of buttons to go left / right on the timeline ?????
It is moving in the exact same directions ( just specific to the context the system is in).

It will be interesting if that "Live" tab on the main menu can be attached to something other than YouTube TV on other instances of Android TV main screen. ( or Google just gets a slight fork because 'own' the main sources. )


----------



## trip1eX

aaronwt said:


> Great, another option with commercials. The last thing I want to do is to watch content with commercials.
> 
> It's like things keep going backwards. These streaming services are trying to simulate the way TV was watched in the 70's and earlier. The last thing I want to do it go back to how I watched TV in the 70's. With no way to pause, rewind, FF etc.


 Oh I also wanted to say it is ironic Tivo is becoming a host to ads either on the UI or thru a free streaming service.


----------



## trip1eX

mdavej said:


> Yeah, Chromecast desperately needed a GUI and a remote, but this one ain't gonna cut it. Sad to see they just copied everything people hate about the Apple remote. You'd think remote buttons were a million dollars each they way everybody skimps on them. Come on, give me enough buttons to operate the damn thing.
> 
> Hard pass. Next...


lol it looks my kind of a remote. I'm interested now. Although I don't see +/- volume buttons. I wonder how that works.

And is the circle thingie a clickwheel ala iPod where you can scroll with it. I thought the Tivo STream should have had one. IT would be a nice touch.

I don't get why people think you need more buttons than an ATV remote in the streaming age.


----------



## foghorn2

moyekj said:


> Looks like a dud for my interests - no dedicated remote buttons for ff/rew if the picture shown of the remote is correct.


Agree, these idiots dont know how to design remotes, weather its apple or google, and even the Tivo stick remote sucks.

My favorite so far is still the AirTv 4k remote. This device is highly underrated.


----------



## ElT60

ptcfast2 said:


> Called it: Exclusive: This is Google's Android TV dongle, remote, and new UI
> 
> The Stream was rushed out because Google's device is about to happen...I think it might even use the same SoC xD


 but that also appears to be Android TV 10.

That's is another level of questions that the bug fest release of the Steam 4K presents is whether Tivo is going to stay up to date on Android TV version updates. I'm sure they'll trail months behind Google ( like vast majority of phones trail months / years behind). Or whether this will be like super low cost phones that will never see any substantive upgrade at all for whole service life. (and forced into being happy just for security patches for egregious security gaps. ).

If Tivo is going to fork Android TV as far as they can then what will they have if revenue streams don't look good. Budget for the custom mods could go sideways and fixes take even longer.


----------



## mdavej

trip1eX said:


> lol it looks my kind of a remote. I'm interested now...
> I don't get why people think you need more buttons than an ATV remote in the streaming age.





ElT60 said:


> Not sure what the *GUI guidelines for Android TV* 10 are but that might be a standard that apps should be adherent to. Go left or right on the timeline is more than a straightforward than trying to map back to physical buttons on a long ago VCR. If left / right navigates the general top level interface why do you and a whole another set of buttons to go left / right on the timeline ?????


Lack of standards is the whole problem. Every app is different. If they could all agree that short left/right is skip and held left/right is ffwd/rew, that would be great. But some have it the opposite way, or the arrows don't scrub the timeline at all, or the ffwd/rew buttons don't do anything, or maybe they skip. It's a complete clusterf... I manage to guess wrong most of the time. At least I have a fighting chance with a full array of buttons like the Fire TV remote. It's only 2 more buttons for pete's sake.


----------



## trip1eX

mdavej said:


> Lack of standards is the whole problem. Every app is different. If they could all agree that short left/right is skip and held left/right is ffwd/rew, that would be great. But some have it the opposite way, or the arrows don't scrub the timeline at all, or the ffwd/rew buttons don't do anything, or maybe they skip. It's a complete clusterf... I manage to guess wrong most of the time. At least I have a fighting chance with a full array of buttons like the Fire TV remote. It's only 2 more buttons for pete's sake.


yeah standards are good. I don't have a problem on the ATV guessing how apps work. They seem to mostly work the same.

The exceptions I can think of are Google apps. Google does it's scrubbing and ff/rwd 10 seconds sort of opposite of how every other app seems to work on the ATV.


----------



## aaronwt

trip1eX said:


> lol it looks my kind of a remote. I'm interested now. Although I don't see +/- volume buttons. I wonder how that works.
> 
> And is the circle thingie a clickwheel ala iPod where you can scroll with it. I thought the Tivo STream should have had one. IT would be a nice touch.
> 
> I don't get why people think you need more buttons than an ATV remote in the streaming age.


I hate that thing on my ATV 4K remotes. I thought my 2017 Shield TV remotes were the worst remotes ever. Until I got my first ATV 4K box. Just holding it makes my hands hurt.


----------



## aaronwt

ptcfast2 said:


> Called it: Exclusive: This is Google's Android TV dongle, remote, and new UI
> 
> The Stream was rushed out because Google's device is about to happen...I think it might even use the same SoC xD


SOunds like most if not all of these lower power Android TV devices are using the same Amlogic SoC. Like the Stream 4K uses.

I was pleased with the responsiveness and hardware capability of the Stream 4K.
It was just the TiVo software implementation that was the issue. Even If they would have just had the basic Android TV platform, without mucking with it, the Stream 4K would have worked great.


----------



## aaronwt

moyekj said:


> Looks like a dud for my interests - no dedicated remote buttons for ff/rew if the picture shown of the remote is correct.


That doesn't bother me. Many apps are designed to not need to use FF/Rew/Play/Pause buttons. They are designed to use the D-Pad. It's the apps that are not designed correctly that have issues when there are no FF, rew, etc. buttons.

But no remote was the reason in the past I always returned the Chromecast Ultras I purchased. 
If I get the new one I will wait until it's on sale during the holidays. That way it should only be $50 or less.


----------



## RIKNIK

Gave TIVO 30 days to fix the issues that have been brought up here. No fixes, no fixes announced. Returned the 4k stream today. Pathetic!


----------



## foghorn2

RIKNIK said:


> Gave TIVO 30 days to fix the issues that have been brought up here. No fixes, no fixes announced. Returned the 4k stream today. Pathetic!


Good move, it aint worth $50.


----------



## BillyClyde

RIKNIK said:


> Gave TIVO 30 days to fix the issues that have been brought up here. No fixes, no fixes announced. Returned the 4k stream today. Pathetic!


I was actually about to do the same thing, but then I decided to try Button Remapper app and I remapped the TiVo button to open ReelGood and the Guide button to open my Channels DVR Client app and it has improved my experience tremendously. I did this mostly for my wife, so she doesn't have to dig through apps due to being locked into the inferior (to ReelGood) TiVo Stream app ecosystem and the inferior (to Channels DVR) SlingTV live TV service.

ReelGood seems to be what TiVo should've been.

The other reason I did this is so I could keep these Stream 4Ks just in case they improve upon this by adding DVR support, fix Dolby Vision, improve TiVo Stream app suggestions, recordings access and tracking since I paid less for all three of these than just one of my AppleTVs. Once the price goes up to $69 this will no longer be the case.

The experience is now better than what I get on my AppleTVs. The Stream 4K is much more snappy (better processor?), especially with Channels DVR with things like fast forwarding within a recording or paused video (more RAM for buffers?). Plus the better remote, which is a given compared to that utter garbage known as the AppleTV "remote"!


----------



## rczrider

BillyClyde said:


> Once the price goes up to $69 this will no longer be the case.


I'm with you, though I returned mine because my 30 days was almost up and they extended the discounted price through June 25. I will probably buy another one in the next 3 weeks, then give TiVo through mid-July to make the fixes. If they can't manage it by then, well, there will be other options.


----------



## waynomo

waynomo said:


> I just received my Stream and haven't read a post in this thread so if it's been answered just point me in the correct direction.
> 
> I didn't realize there was no Ethernet connection and the the WiFi in the location where I would use the stream is quite frankly pretty poor. A quick search result showed this Reddit post
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Tivo/comments/gg2li3
> 
> where they say that this adapter
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N1X28F...8cfba5084a33c82b0280aac11f706d&language=en_US
> 
> will let the Stream connect via Ethernet. It's only 100 Mbps, but that should be enough for 4K HDTV, yes?
> 
> Anybody have any experience with this issue?
> 
> Is there a better solution out there?


I don't know if anybody cares, but this does work to connect the TiVo Steam 4K via Ethernet.


----------



## BillyClyde

They fixed the Sony LLDV Dolby Vision issue. It now displays correctly!!! I can confirm it with my HDFury Vertex2.










I would check to see if whatever this update was also fixed some of the other complaints, like image issues with HDR/DV always being on, etc. I didn't have these image issues and it looked fine for me up until now, but I'll test more to see if it's even better now.


----------



## ellinj

was there an actually a software update pushed out?


----------



## Noelmel

ellinj said:


> was there an actually a software update pushed out?


Yes it's build 4734 there's a separate thread now about it

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## aaronwt

Great! right after I returned mine.


----------



## RIKNIK

aaronwt said:


> Great! right after I returned mine.


DITTO. You (we) can always buy it again if substantial improvements are made, plus get another 30 days to try it out.


----------



## BillyClyde

I called to begin a return or at least ask what my drop dead 30 day return policy was (ordered on May 6 but didn’t receive until May 13), and they immediately offered an extra 30 days return period. Did they not offer you that?


----------



## leiff

I got a fedex label to return mine from tivo I bought on launch day but it says I have 10 days until I have to bring it to fedex.


----------



## BillyClyde

leiff said:


> I got a fedex label to return mine from tivo I bought on launch day but it says I have 10 days until I have to bring it to fedex.


If you call them they'll probably give you an extra 30 days if you want it.


----------



## Bierboy

BillyClyde said:


> If you call them they'll probably give you an extra 30 days if you want it.


Can you say "desperate"?


----------



## BillyClyde

Bierboy said:


> Can you say "desperate"?


Yes........"desperate".

How's that?

How is that desperate anyway? They've already sent an update which fixed the CEC, Sony LLDV Dolby Vision, etc. This was right about the 30 day mark. There's a distinct possibility that there'll be another update in the next 30 days which may add DVR access ability and/or fix other persistent issues. To me, given that I paid less than the cost of just 1 of my AppleTVs for 3 TS4Ks, a FREE extra 30 days with nothing to lose and possibly everything to gain is more than worth it!

Doesn't sound desperate to me.


----------



## fattymcbuckles

BillyClyde said:


> Yes........"desperate".
> 
> How's that?
> 
> How is that desperate anyway? They've already sent an update which fixed the CEC, Sony LLDV Dolby Vision, etc. This was right about the 30 day mark. There's a distinct possibility that there'll be another update in the next 30 days which may add DVR access ability and/or fix other persistent issues. To me, given that I paid less than the cost of just 1 of my AppleTVs for 3 TS4Ks, a FREE extra 30 days with nothing to lose and possibly everything to gain is more than worth it!
> 
> Doesn't sound desperate to me.


This thing is a bargain at 50 dollars.I would buy another one but my wife would kill me if a got another streaming device.I already have 3 4K fire sticks,a Nvidia Shield and the TiVo 4K and a few other cheap android boxes.


----------



## rczrider

fattymcbuckles said:


> This thing is a bargain at 50 dollars.


It's not a bargain if it doesn't work right, though. It depends on your use-case. For me, always-on HDR is awful. Looks good for things that benefit from HDR and bad for things that don't. Why can't I turn it off?

Kodi and Plex flicker black upon playback. I've seen there are some "fixes", but it means disabling some features that I want on.

The device locked up on me several times and you have to unplug it in order to reboot.

Don't get me wrong, I'm convinced this is related to software and is therefore fixable. The fact is that it doesn't work _for me_ and I am not convinced TiVo will fix these things since they _seem_ to be related to completely unnecessary modifications they made to Android TV. I believe stock/vanilla Android TV on the TS4K would be fine. It's only $50, but it's not $50 I want to throw away.


----------



## mrizzo80

Has anyone noticed the audio volume fluctuates wildly from app to app? TV volume 15 in, say, YouTube, is almost too loud, but in Netflix I can barely hear the dialogue. 

Any way to normalize this?


----------



## aaronwt

BillyClyde said:


> I called to begin a return or at least ask what my drop dead 30 day return policy was (ordered on May 6 but didn't receive until May 13), and they immediately offered an extra 30 days return period. Did they not offer you that?


They only offered me a replacement. Which, of course, would have made no difference.


----------



## ptcfast2

rczrider said:


> Don't get me wrong, I'm convinced this is related to software and is therefore fixable. The fact is that it doesn't work _for me_ and I am not convinced TiVo will fix these things since they _seem_ to be related to completely unnecessary modifications they made to Android TV. I believe stock/vanilla Android TV on the TS4K would be fine. It's only $50, but it's not $50 I want to throw away.


One thing to remember is that each Android TV device that shares this underlying chipset has their own development team, but the core is still SEI's territory. There's a bunch of junk left on the device and underdeveloped and poorly translated software that shows Tivo has a relatively hands off approach (at least on the US side) when it comes to development of the OS here and bug fixes. The Sling AirTV Mini uses the same board/chipset, and does not have these problems.

The fact that this device has been lurking for over a year and then some, when it's literally an off the shelf design shows how lazy Tivo has gotten as a company. Whoever designed the actual SoC, it's very well designed. It's the fundamental issues with the software that are the problem, and it's not Android TV doing it. You see, while Android TV is fine on its own, you still have to supply the proprietary stuff on a separate "vendor" partition of the system in the latest versions of Android. This means that alllllll the stuff that makes Android TV talk to the actual hardware is up to the company that developed said hardware to write. That's where the device is failing - and hard.

This is NOT a complicated device. It's a tiny little SoC that other manufacturers have been able to use and deliver to consumers without these types of bugs. When you have a new product that fails so horribly *at doing the one thing it's supposed to do* you need to take a good, hard look in the mirror. Tivo has no history of developing a device like this, and if this is their best attempt after a year or two since the rumors first appeared and the FCC filings showed up....holy crap they should be embarrassed.

If no name Chinese manufacturers can spit out Android TV boxes that actually work, and a multi-million dollar company that literally specializes in this stuff can't...it just shows how misguided and lost Tivo has become as a company.


----------



## rajdori

In one of the app (BBC iPlayer), I clicked on "download the video", that crashed tv4k. Now, it's not able to boot, gets into loop when trying to start.

Anyone knows, how to reset it, if I'm not able to boot the device?

Sent from my LM-V350 using Tapatalk


----------



## jaselzer

rajdori said:


> In one of the app (BBC iPlayer), I clicked on "download the video", that crashed tv4k. Now, it's not able to boot, gets into loop when trying to start.
> 
> Anyone knows, how to reset it, if I'm not able to boot the device?
> 
> Sent from my LM-V350 using Tapatalk


There are 2 topics in the Stream forum that deal directly with your issue. If you stroll down the forum titles you will see them. I don't know how to link to each topic but it'll be obvious if you just scroll down a bit.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## vurbano

ptcfast2 said:


> One thing to remember is that each Android TV device that shares this underlying chipset has their own development team, but the core is still SEI's territory. There's a bunch of junk left on the device and underdeveloped and poorly translated software that shows Tivo has a relatively hands off approach (at least on the US side) when it comes to development of the OS here and bug fixes. The Sling AirTV Mini uses the same board/chipset, and does not have these problems.
> 
> The fact that this device has been lurking for over a year and then some, when it's literally an off the shelf design shows how lazy Tivo has gotten as a company. Whoever designed the actual SoC, it's very well designed. It's the fundamental issues with the software that are the problem, and it's not Android TV doing it. You see, while Android TV is fine on its own, you still have to supply the proprietary stuff on a separate "vendor" partition of the system in the latest versions of Android. This means that alllllll the stuff that makes Android TV talk to the actual hardware is up to the company that developed said hardware to write. That's where the device is failing - and hard.
> 
> This is NOT a complicated device. It's a tiny little SoC that other manufacturers have been able to use and deliver to consumers without these types of bugs. When you have a new product that fails so horribly *at doing the one thing it's supposed to do* you need to take a good, hard look in the mirror. Tivo has no history of developing a device like this, and if this is their best attempt after a year or two since the rumors first appeared and the FCC filings showed up....holy crap they should be embarrassed.
> 
> If no name Chinese manufacturers can spit out Android TV boxes that actually work, and a multi-million dollar company that literally specializes in this stuff can't...it just shows how misguided and lost Tivo has become as a company.


I agree.


----------



## vurbano

foghorn2 said:


> Good move, it aint worth $50.


I think it is for the mere fact that the usb port which the firestick doesnt have uses ExFAT and not FAT32. It will not be my main device but its fine for a bedroom TV, no extra OTG cable to buy, no hacking or Kodi required and with a cheap 128GB sandisk USb stick and anyone can record a movie off my IPTV service locally. Ive seen some run 7.5GB. well worth 50 bucks.


----------



## BillyClyde

This looks familiar. I wonder if they're going to come out with something similar for retail that has underlying TiVo GUI, similar to AT&T TV?

eSTREAM 4K | Evolution Digital - Solutions for Broadband Providers


----------



## NashGuy

BillyClyde said:


> This looks familiar. I wonder if they're going to come out with something similar for retail that has underlying TiVo GUI, similar to AT&T TV?
> 
> eSTREAM 4K | Evolution Digital - Solutions for Broadband Providers


Google, which owns Android TV and licenses it for deployment on different brands of hardware, has one set of rules for using Android TV on a retail device, such as the new TiVo Stream 4K dongle, and a different set of rules for using Android TV on a pay TV provider's own set-top boxes. This latter program is known as "Android TV Operator Tier" and that's what Evolution Digital and TiVo are using on the device you linked to. Operator Tier gives the device manufacturer a lot more freedom with the UI. This box starts up in pretty much the same TiVo Hydra UI as what you see on the TiVo Bolt, except with the pay TV provider's cloud DVR used for storage rather than an internal hard drive. This box can only be distributed by pay TV operators to their customers, not sold at retail to just anyone. (And even if it could be sold at retail, it wouldn't work unless paired with that pay TV operator's back end/cloud DVR system.)

AT&T TV has an Android TV Operator Tier box but they only give them/sell them to customers who are signed up for AT&T TV. No one else can buy one (unless you buy a used one on eBay).


----------



## BillyClyde

NashGuy said:


> Google, which owns Android TV and licenses it for deployment on different brands of hardware, has one set of rules for using Android TV on a retail device, such as the new TiVo Stream 4K dongle, and a different set of rules for using Android TV on a pay TV provider's own set-top boxes. This latter program is known as "Android TV Operator Tier" and that's what Evolution Digital and TiVo are using on the device you linked to. Operator Tier gives the device manufacturer a lot more freedom with the UI. This box starts up in pretty much the same TiVo Hydra UI as what you see on the TiVo Bolt, except with the pay TV provider's cloud DVR used for storage rather than an internal hard drive. This box can only be distributed by pay TV operators to their customers, not sold at retail to just anyone. (And even if it could be sold at retail, it wouldn't work unless paired with that pay TV operator's back end/cloud DVR system.)
> 
> AT&T TV has an Android TV Operator Tier box but they only give them/sell them to customers who are signed up for AT&T TV. No one else can buy one (unless you buy a used one on eBay).


Yes thanks. I understood that already. What you reference at the end of your post with AT&T TV is kind of what I am asking for. I would want them to partner up with an Operator, or many, and build a similar Operator Tier box as AT&T TV does, but with a different operator, like maybe Sling/Dish whom they appear to already have a partnership with, then maybe add others like maybe Hulu or YouTube TV.


----------



## BillyClyde

A new semi-positive review:

TiVo Stream 4K Review: One-stop content shop - 9to5Google


----------



## cwoody222

BillyClyde said:


> Yes thanks. I understood that already. What you reference at the end of your post with AT&T TV is kind of what I am asking for. I would want them to partner up with an Operator, or many, and build a similar Operator Tier box as AT&T TV does, but with a different operator, like maybe Sling/Dish whom they appear to already have a partnership with, then maybe add others like maybe Hulu or YouTube TV.


Tivo already does what you want, with many small tier cable operators, including Evolution Digital which you linked to.

Services like Sling, YouTubeTV and Hulu Live (even if Google considers them "operators") have no need whatsoever to sell/rent you a box since their OTT services work with any internet connection. And they have the resources to create apps for a multitude of existing boxes (like Roku).

You've stated many times you like ATT's approach to their box. It's just not going to happen with TiVo. Not with a retail product or one sold by a OTT "operator".


----------



## BillyClyde

cwoody222 said:


> Tivo already does what you want, with many small tier cable operators, including Evolution Digital which you linked to.
> 
> Services like Sling, YouTubeTV and Hulu Live (even if Google considers them "operators") have no need whatsoever to sell/rent you a box since their OTT services work with any internet connection. And they have the resources to create apps for a multitude of existing boxes (like Roku).
> 
> You've stated many times you like ATT's approach to their box. It's just not going to happen with TiVo. Not with a retail product or one sold by a OTT "operator".


Yes I know they already do that for cable ops.

I'm not saying that OTT operators DO the box. I am saying TiVo should, as they always have, make the box to work with the MSOs, as they also always have. Same concept, different method.

Many folks still enjoy the cable/satellite approach and just wanted the next evolution in how that's presented with combining in streaming in an All-in-One box. This is precisely the direction TiVo has been headed in for many years now after they started adding apps to their platform and creating One Passes that melded cable and app shows together in one folder for viewing.

This is what we all wanted just a couple short years ago! It's the natural progression of what should've happened. TiVo Stream just being an app on an Android platform is NOT that! They could've just released the app into the Google Play App Store for God's Sake. The TS4K isn't what a TiVo is!


----------



## NashGuy

BillyClyde said:


> Yes I know they already do that for cable ops.
> 
> I'm not saying that OTT operators DO the box. I am saying TiVo should, as they always have, make the box to work with the MSOs, as they also always have. Same concept, different method.


What you're essentially calling for is a software-based replacement for CableCARD, where there's an industry standard among IPTV/OTT providers so that TiVo (and, presumably, other companies) could create retail devices that would use their own UI and which could two-way communicate with the provider's video servers in order to serve up live TV, cloud DVR and VOD. The Obama FCC considered such (i.e. the "Unlock the Box" initiative) but, against strong resistance to the idea from MSOs, the idea was abandoned in favor of MSOs simply providing their own apps for use on retail streaming devices (e.g. Roku, Apple TV, smart TVs, etc.).

TiVo has no way to just put out a retail device, running a standard software stack, and then have it work with various MSOs' IPTV services since there's no industry standard. Instead, they must strike deals with each MSO, who must then deploy compatible back-end software on their video servers to work with the software on the TiVo "Next-Gen" IPTV box. And a lot of that whole set-up is customizable based on what the MSO wants. For instance, I think TiVo may have a turnkey solution available that includes the back-end server software but MSOs have the option of turning to third-party software providers for that part.

Anyhow, even if there was a software-based version of CableCARD designed for IPTV, it would appear that Google would not allow TiVo to use their Android TV Operator Tier software on such a device. Operator Tier gives pay TV providers a lot of flexibility to customize the UI and it's intended by Google for deployment only on devices that are custom-designed for use with a specific pay TV service and then distributed by that service directly to their customers.



BillyClyde said:


> This is what we all wanted just a couple short years ago! It's the natural progression of what should've happened. TiVo Stream just being an app on an Android platform is NOT that! They could've just released the app into the Google Play App Store for God's Sake. The TS4K isn't what a TiVo is!


Agreed, but I think the TS4K is the best TiVo can do given the rules Google has in place for how their Android TV OS/platform can be used. This all goes back to the fact that TiVo's native app platform was never up to snuff, so they needed to instead adopt Google's via Android TV.


----------



## cwoody222

Well, Nash beat me to a reply, and said it better than I would have 

What Billy is asking for just isn't feasible under the current state of the industry, FCC not desiring to enforce standardization and Google's rules around customization of the Android OS.

TiVo is playing in the CableCard/retail space.
TiVo is playing in the MSO/IPTV space (albeit with smaller cable co.'s but that's just who's interested).
TiVo is playing in the AndroidTV retail space.

They're basically doing all they can that makes sense.


----------



## BillyClyde

TiVo already partnered with Sling for the TS4K’s live TV and guide. They could’ve just as easily built it in the way AT&T did it instead of a separate app. From what I’ve seen, it doesn’t seem that hard as the background is just an app running there as the background for Android TV. You can see it almost happening when you go back to Home on the AT&T TV device. I don’t think it’s as complicated as you’re making it out to be. 

They don’t have to make deals with every MSO, they apparently already have one in Sling, so use them. If it’s successful then maybe others will follow, who knows.

There’s NO reason they couldn’t have still partnered with and used Sling but built it like AT&T TV did instead of a stupid separate app they like they did. As I said, if that was their idea they could’ve just released the app in Google Play and been done with it.


----------



## cwoody222

BillyClyde said:


> TiVo already partnered with Sling for the TS4K's live TV and guide. They could've just as easily built it in the way AT&T did it instead of a separate app. From what I've seen, it doesn't seem that hard as the background is just an app running there as the background for Android TV. You can see it almost happening when you go back to Home on the AT&T TV device. I don't think it's as complicated as you're making it out to be.
> 
> They don't have to make deals with every MSO, they apparently already have one in Sling, so use them. If it's successful then maybe others will follow, who knows.
> 
> There's NO reason they couldn't have still partnered with and used Sling but built it like AT&T TV did instead of a stupid separate app they like they did. As I said, if that was their idea they could've just released the app in Google Play and been done with it.


No they couldn't.

Tivo is not functioning as an MSO with the Stream and cannot customize it to the level of ATT under the terms of the Android TV Operator Tier agreement.

Tivo is not allowed to do what you're suggesting with the Stream 4k. TiVo is not an MSO. ATT is.


----------



## BillyClyde

cwoody222 said:


> No they couldn't.
> 
> Tivo is not functioning as an MSO with the Stream and cannot customize it to the level of ATT under the terms of the Android TV Operator Tier agreement.
> 
> Tivo is not allowed to do what you're suggesting with the Stream 4k. TiVo is not an MSO. ATT is.


Nothing would stop Sling from using TiVo's interface. Sling is an MSO. TiVo and Sling are already partners.


----------



## cwoody222

BillyClyde said:


> Nothing would stop Sling from using TiVo's interface. Sling is an MSO. TiVo and Sling are already partners.


Im not sure if Sling is an MSO according to the Android TV Developer Tier. Other instances are IPTV providers, not live streaming services. And IPTV devices are rented directly from the MSO, not sold at retail.

But let's for sake of argument say Sling is considered an MSO and would be allowed to modify ATV to their heart's content.

Sling is not selling the Stream 4K, TiVo is.

But yes, if Sling decided to sell a product and decided to license TiVo's software in favor of their own, as other IPTV MSO's do, they could.

But what incentive would Sling have to do that? They already sell a similar product using their own royalty free software.

Actually, the fact that Sling's AirTV Mini retail device, which is almost identical to the Stream 4K, does not customize Android any more than the Stream does, points to the fact that Sling isn't considered a MSO (assuming their decision to not customize isn't just that, their decision).


----------



## NashGuy

cwoody222 said:


> Im not sure if Sling is an MSO according to the Android TV Developer Tier. Other instances are IPTV providers, not live streaming services. And IPTV devices are rented directly from the MSO, not sold at retail.


Yeah, this is a good question: does Google allow OTT cable TV providers (e.g. Sling TV) to customize their own Android TV devices (e.g. Sling's AirTV Mini) to the same degree that they allow actual MSOs (multi-system operators) to do so (e.g. AT&T TV)?

If you look at the AirTV Mini (see review & photos here), you see that it boots up in the Sling app rather than booting up to the regular Android TV home screen. Is that an option that Google allows regular retail devices to do? Doesn't the TS4K boot up to the regular Android TV home screen and then you must enter the TiVo Stream app if you want?

That said, the AirTV Mini does still actually have the regular Android TV home screen. Click the home button on the remote and you're there. This is where you go to see and launch your various installed apps.









So, the AirTV Mini is lightly customized. I'm not sure if this is Android TV Operator Tier or not. I don't _think_ so, although maybe it is if booting up in the provider's own app, rather than to the standard Android TV home screen, is an option exclusive to Operator Tier.

Now, the AT&T TV box, OTOH, is clearly using Operator Tier. It not only boots up in AT&T's custom UI, it doesn't even appear to provide access to the regular Android TV home screen at all. (IDK, maybe it's there somewhere hidden under an option in the Settings menu?) If you click the Home button on the AT&T TV box's remote, it just takes you back to the main AT&T TV screen (not to the standard Android TV home screen, as the AirTV Mini's Home button does). There's an on-screen Apps button there, and also a physical Apps button on the remote, but that takes you to a sub-section of the AT&T TV UI where you see your list of installed apps. So you don't even need to leave the AT&T UI to view, launch and install third-party apps. I'm sure that's a feature that's exclusive to Operator Tier.


----------



## BillyClyde

AT&T TV and AT&T TV Now are OTT services, not tied to the MSO you have serving your home.

Both logins work on the Osprey box.


----------



## BillyClyde

Another update coming.

TiVo Announces Another Update to Fix Bugs | Cord Cutters News


----------



## rczrider

BillyClyde said:


> Another update coming.
> 
> TiVo Announces Another Update to Fix Bugs | Cord Cutters News


Too little, too late, I imagine. If the Mi Stick 4K really is shipping for $50 in July, the TS4K is dead. It doesn't work with other TiVo products and the USB-C port* (which is a huge benefit, IMO) works with so few adapters that it's borderline useless.

Yes, the TS4K has Dolby Vision and the Mi Stick doesn't, but as noted in another thread, there are virtually no TVs that can make use of the advantages of DV, so HDR10 (an open standard and therefore without licensing fees) is more than good enough.

I hate the remote, too, but I realize some folks like a remote with a ton of buttons.

Now, if it's actually a FHD/1GB unit that's $50 - with a 4K/2GB unit being more expensive - that's a different story. With the exception of some proprietary goodies Google can bake into their "Sabrina" (aka Chromecast Ultra 2), a device based on the Amlogic S905Y2 isn't worth more than $50, IMO. I could see Xiaomi doing something like $35 for the FHD version and $50 for the 4K variant, though why anyone would opt for the FHD version to save $15, I don't know.

*EDIT: might be that the Mi Stick 4K does, in fact, come with a USB-C port for power which, in theory, could allow for power pass-through and hub/Ethernet adapter usage.


----------



## aaronwt

BillyClyde said:


> Another update coming.
> 
> TiVo Announces Another Update to Fix Bugs | Cord Cutters News





> Those who have been using the new device since it launched in May have been reporting the HDR issue that frequently uses the wrong standard and leaves HDR in "always on" mode. Caused by a 4K TV and the device not pairing together correctly



WTH?? Caused by the device not pairing correctly. I don't think so. It's like that because TiVo screwed up. They didn't even have an option for SDR output.


----------



## NashGuy

BillyClyde said:


> AT&T TV and AT&T TV Now are OTT services, not tied to the MSO you have serving your home.
> 
> Both logins work on the Osprey box.


True. AT&T TV is technically OTT although they don't sell it the same way that OTT services are typically sold. It comes with a dedicated box (which isn't sold at retail, only with the service), it can be bundled with their own internet service, and it has a contract. None of those things are true for AT&T TV Now or other OTT services like YouTube TV, Hulu, etc. Probably for those reasons, Google allows AT&T TV to use Android TV Operator Tier, the same as they allow for the IPTV boxes issued by RCN, WOW!, and other MSOs.


----------



## BillyClyde

aaronwt said:


> WTH?? Caused by the device not pairing correctly. I don't think so. It's like that because TiVo screwed up. They didn't even have an option for SDR output.


I think they mean not pair into the proper HDR mode correctly. Mine was strange and unsaturated but when I forced it to prefer standard HDR it made it look correct, as I stated a long time ago and they referenced in the article here too.


----------



## BillyClyde

NashGuy said:


> True. AT&T TV is technically OTT although they don't sell it the same way that OTT services are typically sold. It comes with a dedicated box (which isn't sold at retail, only with the service), it can be bundled with their own internet service, and it has a contract. None of those things are true for AT&T TV Now or other OTT services like YouTube TV, Hulu, etc. *Probably *for those reasons, Google allows AT&T TV to use Android TV Operator Tier, the same as they allow for the IPTV boxes issued by RCN, WOW!, and other MSOs.


Key word is "probably". I guess we will see when or if some other OTT tries to do the same thing.

Either way, if they're allowed or not, that's the way I would personally prefer it.


----------



## NashGuy

BillyClyde said:


> Key word is "probably". I guess we will see when or if some other OTT tries to do the same thing.
> 
> Either way, if they're allowed or not, that's the way I would personally prefer it.


Bottom line is that Google controls the Android TV platform and they're not going to totally cede control of its UI over to TiVo on an Android TV retail device the way you would prefer. Why should they? But at least Google offers a semi-open platform, which is more than can be said for Apple TV, Roku, or Fire TV.


----------



## BillyClyde

NashGuy said:


> Bottom line is that Google controls the Android TV platform and they're not going to totally cede control of its UI over to TiVo on an Android TV retail device the way you would prefer. Why should they? But at least Google offers a semi-open platform, which is more than can be said for Apple TV, Roku, or Fire TV.


They wouldn't cede it to TiVo. It would be to Sling, as I said.


----------



## cwoody222

BillyClyde said:


> They wouldn't cede it to TiVo. It would be to Sling, as I said.


For what product? Not for the Stream 4k because Sling is not the manufacturer or seller of that device.

The only company would MAYBE would be able to use the Operator Tier for the Stream 4k is TiVo.


----------



## NashGuy

Well, the new Peacock app will be landing on the TS4K and other Android TV devices (along with Apple devices and the Xbox One) on its July 15 launch date. Android and Android TV users will get the $5 Peacock Premium tier for free until Oct. 15.

Peacock streaming service is coming to Android TV and Chromecast

Roku and Amazon Fire TV have yet to reach a carriage deal for Peacock, same as with the new HBO Max app.

Wonder if we'll see the TiVo Stream app integrate Peacock?


----------



## BillyClyde

cwoody222 said:


> For what product? Not for the Stream 4k because Sling is not the manufacturer or seller of that device.
> 
> The only company would MAYBE would be able to use the Operator Tier for the Stream 4k is TiVo.


There's no reason Sling couldn't be the MSO and hardware manufacturer and contract partner with TiVo to use their UI.

I'm done. I've said all I have to say.


----------



## zyzzx

I can’t keep up with these streaming apps. How does Peacock differ from the current NBC streaming app?


----------



## cwoody222

BillyClyde said:


> There's no reason Sling couldn't be the MSO and hardware manufacturer and contract partner with TiVo to use their UI.
> 
> I'm done. I've said all I have to say.


So you're talking about a hypothetical product that doesn't exist, one made/sold by Sling but yet defaults to the TiVo UI, using the Android Operator Tier.

I thought we were here talking about the Stream product. Not hypotheticals.

Plus, why would Sling ever sell a product that default boots to Tivis software?!

Keep dreaming.


----------



## NashGuy

zyzzx said:


> I can't keep up with these streaming apps. How does Peacock differ from the current NBC streaming app?


Well, to watch most of the stuff in the current NBC app, you need to get NBC as part of a cable TV package and then use those credentials to access the app.

Peacock will be its own standalone service, kind of like Hulu. It'll have a bunch of older shows and movies in the free tier and then if you upgrade to the Premium tier ($5), you'll get more stuff, including a few new Peacock Originals, plus next-day access to all NBC shows (same as you can get in the NBC app), early same-day access to their late night shows, etc. Peacock will contain a lot more content than just the stuff currently airing on NBC. If you want to remove adds from the whole thing, then that's another $5 ($10 total). But if you get cable TV and/or broadband from Comcast or Cox, you get the Premium tier for free.

Frankly, it doesn't look super-exciting to me but I should be getting Peacock Premium for free as a Comcast broadband customer, so I'll check it out. Although it's not clear to me if I'll be able to claim my free subscription without taking one of their free Flex streaming boxes too, which I don't really want...

Peacock - Stream TV and Movies Online, Watch Live News and Sports


----------



## Noelmel

zyzzx said:


> I can't keep up with these streaming apps. How does Peacock differ from the current NBC streaming app?


I believe it will replace it with an update like how HBO NOW turned into MAX. Not 100% sure but it will have all that content plus originals (Saved By The Bell & Punky Brewster Reboots plus more new shows)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## zyzzx

NashGuy said:


> Well, to watch most of the stuff in the current NBC app, you need to get NBC as part of a cable TV package and then use those credentials to access the app.


Ah, gotcha. I'm able to authenticate the current NBC streaming app through my cable sub. Thanks.


----------



## NashGuy

cwoody222 said:


> So you're talking about a hypothetical product that doesn't exist, one made/sold by Sling but yet defaults to the TiVo UI, using the Android Operator Tier.
> 
> I thought we were here talking about the Stream product. Not hypotheticals.
> 
> Plus, why would Sling ever sell a product that default boots to Tivis software?!
> 
> Keep dreaming.


Yeah. I mean, hypothetically, if an OTT streaming cable TV service like Sling were to strike a deal with TiVo to license their Hydra UI and use it as the native UI in the Sling app rather than their own design, well, then, yes, they could put that UI on their own custom Android TV device (and in their app for every other device platform too).

Except the TiVo Hydra UI _still_ wouldn't take over the entire device to the extent that it does on an Android TV Operator Tier IPTV box, like the ones from RCN and a few other MSOs. In the Sling hypothetical, the device would be just like Sling's current AirTV Mini in that it would boot up in the Sling (with TiVo Hydra UI) app but it would still have to use Google's standard Android TV launcher/home screen. It would have a button on the remote to get you there and that's where you'd have to go to launch or install third-party apps. Just below is what that looks like on the existing AirTV Mini. It would be no different if Sling used the TiVo Hydra UI in their app.










But if you look at TiVo's "Next-Gen Platform" IPTV boxes running full-on Android TV Operator Tier and issued by MSOs such as RCN for their managed IPTV service, TiVo's Hydra UI *replaces* the standard Google Android TV launcher. These boxes don't have a screen that looks like the one above. In this case, the cable TV service running the Hydra UI doesn't even look like an app from the perspective of the user. It appears to be the entire system that the box runs. If you want to launch or install third-party apps, you click on the "Apps & Games" banner in the Hydra UI and it takes you to a screen like the one below. (Note how the current cable channel you're watching is still visible in the upper right corner of the screen.)










It's not apparent to the user this the box is even running Android TV other than the fact that it features Google Assistant and, in the Apps & Games section, has the Google Play Store app.


----------



## BillyClyde

cwoody222 said:


> So you're talking about a hypothetical product that doesn't exist, one made/sold by Sling but yet defaults to the TiVo UI, using the Android Operator Tier.
> 
> I thought we were here talking about the Stream product. Not hypotheticals.


I didn't say it couldn't be the Stream 4K. You did. I just answered based on that hypothetical you threw out there....


cwoody222 said:


> For what product? Not for the Stream 4k because Sling is not the manufacturer or seller of that device.


.....plus, TiVo has made hardware for MSOs before, wIth their UI on it too!



cwoody222 said:


> Plus, why would Sling ever sell a product that default boots to Tivis software?!
> 
> Keep dreaming.


Why would Comcast partner with TiVo? Why would RCN partner with TiVo? Why would DirecTV partner with TiVo? Why would Service Electric partner with TiVo? Why would Evolution Digital partner with TiVo?

Answer: They can build a better UI than an MSO, and the MSO knows it. That is, until they can steal most of it and try to launch their own horrible version, if they have the will and the capital. (I'm looking at you, Comcast and DirecTV!)



NashGuy said:


> Yeah. I mean, hypothetically, if an OTT streaming cable TV service like Sling were to strike a deal with TiVo to license their Hydra UI and use it as the native UI in the Sling app rather than their own design, well, then, yes, they could put that UI on their own custom Android TV device (and in their app for every other device platform too).
> 
> Except the TiVo Hydra UI _still_ wouldn't take over the entire device to the extent that it does on an Android TV Operator Tier IPTV box, like the ones from RCN and a few other MSOs. In the Sling hypothetical, the device would be just like Sling's current AirTV Mini in that it would boot up in the Sling (with TiVo Hydra UI) app but it would still have to use Google's standard Android TV launcher/home screen. It would have a button on the remote to get you there and that's where you'd have to go to launch or install third-party apps. Just below is what that looks like on the existing AirTV Mini. It would be no different if Sling used the TiVo Hydra UI in their app.
> 
> View attachment 50168
> 
> 
> But if you look at TiVo's "Next-Gen Platform" IPTV boxes running full-on Android TV Operator Tier and issued by MSOs such as RCN for their managed IPTV service, TiVo's Hydra UI *replaces* the standard Google Android TV launcher. These boxes don't have a screen that looks like the one above. In this case, the cable TV service running the Hydra UI doesn't even look like an app from the perspective of the user. It appears to be the entire system that the box runs. If you want to launch or install third-party apps, you click on the "Apps & Games" banner in the Hydra UI and it takes you to a screen like the one below. (Note how the current cable channel you're watching is still visible in the upper right corner of the screen.)
> 
> View attachment 50171
> 
> 
> It's not apparent to the user this the box is even running Android TV other than the fact that it features Google Assistant and, in the Apps & Games section, has the Google Play Store app.


How do you KNOW for a fact they wouldn't do your second example and HAVE TO use the first example? The second is EXACTLY what AT&T TV is, and we've established that's an OTT service. So why oh Mensa TCF members can't Sling do it if they wanted to? Hint....they can....if they wanted to.


----------



## mschnebly

BillyClyde said:


> I didn't say it couldn't be the Stream 4K. You did. I just answered based on that hypothetical you threw out there....
> 
> .....plus, TiVo has made hardware for MSOs before, wIth their UI on it too!
> 
> Why would Comcast partner with TiVo? Why would RCN partner with TiVo? Why would DirecTV partner with TiVo? Why would Service Electric partner with TiVo? Why would Evolution Digital partner with TiVo?
> 
> Answer: They can build a better UI than an MSO, and the MSO knows it. That is, until they can steal most of it and try to launch their own horrible version, if they have the will and the capital. (I'm looking at you, Comcast and DirecTV!)
> 
> How do you KNOW for a fact they wouldn't do your second example and HAVE TO use the first example? The second is EXACTLY what AT&T TV is, and we've established that's an OTT service. So why oh Mensa TCF members can't Sling do it if they wanted to? Hint....they can....if they wanted to.


Do any of your examples sell a retail box with the Tivo UI on them?


----------



## BillyClyde

mschnebly said:


> Do any of your examples sell a retail box with the Tivo UI on them?


AT&T TV sort of does at their retail stores. Sling could on their websites.


----------



## NashGuy

BillyClyde said:


> How do you KNOW for a fact they wouldn't do your second example and HAVE TO use the first example? The second is EXACTLY what AT&T TV is, and we've established that's an OTT service. So why oh Mensa TCF members can't Sling do it if they wanted to? Hint....they can....if they wanted to.


As I've explained before, AT&T TV, while technically structured as OTT (i.e. their servers will work with client devices over any IP network, not just AT&T's own), is sold in a way that makes it more like an operator's own managed IPTV service: it comes with its own dedicated, customized box which is only available to those who take the service; it cannot be signed up for through apps on third-party devices but must be purchased directly from AT&T (through their website, stores, or by phone); it requires a 2-year contract; and it is mainly marketed by AT&T as a bundle deal with their own broadband service.

This is very different from Sling. AT&T's direct competitor to Sling (and other OTT services) is AT&T TV Now. None of the things I mention in the paragraph above are true of Sling (or AT&T TV Now or YouTube TV or Hulu with Live TV or Fubo TV).

Even though AT&T TV isn't _exactly_ like the managed IPTV services that typically use Android TV Operator Tier boxes, it's apparently close enough from Google's perspective to allow them to use Android TV Operator Tier. Because they're doing it. Yet I'm unaware of any other OTT service that does so with a fully customized UI like AT&T TV has.

I don't know why Sling wouldn't do the same thing with their AirTV Mini if they could rather than having to share the device's UI/UX with Google via their standard Android TV home screen for retail devices (the same one used by the Nvidia Shield TV, TiVo Stream 4K, Mi Box, etc.). It seems likely to me that Google has a rule that retail streaming devices, even those branded and sold by an OTT video service like Sling, cannot do the full UI customization that Android TV Operator Tier allows. The concession that Google apparently gave Sling on the AirTV Mini, though, is to let the box boot up into their own Sling app.

At any rate, this speculation about the exact rules of what does and doesn't qualify for full access to Google's Android TV Operator Tier is essentially beside the point unless Sling or some other OTT cable TV service chose to completely replace their own UI with the TiVo Hydra UI. And that's pretty unlikely. Sling took a small step in that direction with their agreement to let their Sling app interface with the TiVo Stream app on the TiVo Stream 4K (just as PlayStation Vue and Philo did with the Fire TV's native grid guide). But even if Google's Android TV Operator Tier rules would allow it, I can't imagine Sling striking a deal with TiVo to let the Sling service work with, and be completely subsumed by, the same overall TiVo Hydra UI that's used on managed IPTV boxes from RCN and other MSOs.

I mean, anything's possible, I guess. It's just very far-fetched. As cwoody222 said, "Keep dreaming."


----------



## mschnebly

BillyClyde said:


> AT&T TV sort of does at their retail stores. Sling could on their websites.


I didn't think they were allow to sell retail. I know Comcast cant and Cox cant (or wont, I don't know). I had heard the ones Tivo makes for Cable Cos. that are IPTV cant be sold retail. It sounds like these would all be rent only. I guess if Sling or Tivo did it they could try to rent them?


----------



## mrizzo80

Anyone else notice on 4x3 content that the backlight is too bright? The black bars are basically gray. I have an LCD TV, so I don’t expect jet black bars, but it’s almost distracting. Fire TV handled this better.


----------



## BillyClyde

NashGuy said:


> As I've explained before, AT&T TV, while technically structured as OTT (i.e. their servers will work with client devices over any IP network, not just AT&T's own), is sold in a way that makes it more like an operator's own managed IPTV service: it comes with its own dedicated, customized box which is only available to those who take the service; it cannot be signed up for through apps on third-party devices but must be purchased directly from AT&T (through their website, stores, or by phone); it requires a 2-year contract; and it is mainly marketed by AT&T as a bundle deal with their own broadband service.
> 
> This is very different from Sling. AT&T's direct competitor to Sling (and other OTT services) is AT&T TV Now. None of the things I mention in the paragraph above are true of Sling (or AT&T TV Now or YouTube TV or Hulu with Live TV or Fubo TV).
> 
> Even though AT&T TV isn't _exactly_ like the managed IPTV services that typically use Android TV Operator Tier boxes, it's apparently close enough from Google's perspective to allow them to use Android TV Operator Tier. Because they're doing it. Yet I'm unaware of any other OTT service that does so with a fully customized UI like AT&T TV has.
> 
> I don't know why Sling wouldn't do the same thing with their AirTV Mini if they could rather than having to share the device's UI/UX with Google via their standard Android TV home screen for retail devices (the same one used by the Nvidia Shield TV, TiVo Stream 4K, Mi Box, etc.). It seems likely to me that Google has a rule that retail streaming devices, even those branded and sold by an OTT video service like Sling, cannot do the full UI customization that Android TV Operator Tier allows. The concession that Google apparently gave Sling on the AirTV Mini, though, is to let the box boot up into their own Sling app.
> 
> At any rate, this speculation about the exact rules of what does and doesn't qualify for full access to Google's Android TV Operator Tier is essentially beside the point unless Sling or some other OTT cable TV service chose to completely replace their own UI with the TiVo Hydra UI. And that's pretty unlikely. Sling took a small step in that direction with their agreement to let their Sling app interface with the TiVo Stream app on the TiVo Stream 4K (just as PlayStation Vue and Philo did with the Fire TV's native grid guide). But even if Google's Android TV Operator Tier rules would allow it, I can't imagine Sling striking a deal with TiVo to let the Sling service work with, and be completely subsumed by, the same overall TiVo Hydra UI that's used on managed IPTV boxes from RCN and other MSOs.
> 
> I mean, anything's possible, I guess. It's just very far-fetched. As cwoody222 said, "Keep dreaming."


I'm sure it's ALL because of money. If Sling wanted to pay the piper (Google), they'd be able to use the Operator Tier I am sure.

Sling didn't want to for their AirTV and TiVo didn't want to pay up for the Stream 4K. So they cheapened out and just built a lame app and watered down hardware. Simple as that.


----------



## cwoody222

TiVo. Is. Not. A. MSO.

They could not have paid Google to use operator tier on the Stream 4k. Period.


----------



## BillyClyde

cwoody222 said:


> TiVo. Is. Not. A. MSO.
> 
> They could not have paid Google to use operator tier on the Stream 4k. Period.


Proof? Links? Documents? Regulations? Do you work for or contract with TiVo? Google?

They have TiVo+ channels and lineup, so what does that make them then?

Bet you dollars to doughnuts if TiVo coughed up enough money to Google, it would happen. Not saying it will or they're actually pursuing that, but if they did, it would.

Even so, we've already "established" that and moved onto Sling as the MSO, which they are and can do. That was the gist of what I was saying.

Amazing how sure you can be based on only speculation and no actual proof, at least yet.


----------



## cwoody222

Sling is not an MSO either!

And even if they are (they’re not), they don’t make the Sling 4k! Whatever they are is completely irreverent to the Sling 4k.

The ONLY way the Sling 4k could use the operator tier is if TiVo is considered an MSO by google and that is nowhere near in the realm of possibility - with or without TiVo+.


----------



## BillyClyde

cwoody222 said:


> Sling is not an MSO either!
> 
> And even if they are (they're not), they don't make the Sling 4k! Whatever they are is completely irreverent to the Sling 4k.
> 
> The ONLY way the Sling 4k could use the operator tier is if TiVo is considered an MSO by google and that is nowhere near in the realm of possibility - with or without TiVo+.


Proof? Links? Documents? Regulations? Or pure speculation?


----------



## cwoody222

None.

Just an intelligent understanding of the industry and business we’re discussing here.


----------



## Brian Docili

mntvjunkie said:


> This definitely plays to Tivo's strength of being able to curate content from all sources, and makes good on the promise of the Tivo Roamio. Since it is Android based, app support isn't an issue, it's simply now about writing the software to use the API's to determine where given content is. *I particularly like that you can set up a "season pass" of sorts to be alerted when something shows up down the line on one of the streaming services, which is something nobody else is doing today.* If they can support all of the streaming service providers, including DVR'ed content by them, this could be a win.
> 
> That being said, what does the business model look like? Is Tivo+ the ONLY way they make money on this, or will there be a subscription cost for the Tivo software? A $50 stick that curates all OTT services isn't a hard sell against Roku, Apple TV, Amazon, etc. But a $50 stick that also costs even $5 a month is a non-starter for me, since Roku, AppleTV, and Amazon all offer "good enough" versions of this with no monthly fee. Apple does it with no advertising, while Roku and Amazon do it with advertising for other apps/channels on the respective platforms.


Since I am reading Page 1 of 97 pages, this has probably already been brought up to you a million times, but to be clear, Apple TV does that as well. It notices the shows that I am streaming on all of the different apps out there and when a new episode appears, it shows up on the "What's next" part of AppleTV. I have FireTV, Roku, Chromecast and to me, this is what makes AppleTV great. I am anxious to see if the Tivo experience is similar. i am sorry if I am beating a dead horse. I can't read all 98 pages here.


----------



## cwoody222

Brian Docili said:


> Since I am reading Page 1 of 97 pages, this has probably already been brought up to you a million times, but to be clear, Apple TV does that as well. It notices the shows that I am streaming on all of the different apps out there and when a new episode appears, it shows up on the "What's next" part of AppleTV. I have FireTV, Roku, Chromecast and to me, this is what makes AppleTV great. I am anxious to see if the Tivo experience is similar. i am sorry if I am beating a dead horse. I can't read all 98 pages here.


In theory yes that's how TiVo is supposed to work too.

But for years they've had issues where new episodes or even whole new series will sometimes take WEEKS to show up as available.

It's really not a feature you can depend on, unfortunately.


----------



## NashGuy

cwoody222 said:


> None.
> 
> Just an intelligent understanding of the industry and business we're discussing here.


There's no point in arguing with him. Just let him believe whatever he wants to believe. Others around here, like super moderator Dan203, were also hoping/speculating that the TiVo Stream 4K would work like TiVo's Next-Gen IPTV boxes (which run on Android TV Operator Tier and have the full Hydra UI), except in conjunction with a nationwide OTT streaming cable TV service (such as Sling) rather than a regional MSO's own IPTV service.

But at this point, reality has set in among TiVo die-hards and only BillyClyde seems to think that such a thing might possibly ever happen.


----------



## Brian Docili

One thing I will say: I have a Sony TV with built in Android TV and that UI sucks. I am assuming TiVO adds their own layer that makes this better, but I could not stand using Sony's interface to Android TV.


----------



## Brian Docili

Can anyone tell me if Stream 4k can logon to the hotels? Of the existing players, only Amazon Fire was able to do it in the past because they have to bring up a web browser and allow you to move your cursor around and put in your name and hotel room number. That is the main reason I still have Fire TV stick. If I could replace that with Stream 4k dongle and still use it at hotels, that would be exciting.


----------



## mdavej

Brian Docili said:


> One thing I will say: I have a Sony TV with built in Android TV and that UI sucks. I am assuming TiVO adds their own layer that makes this better, but I could not stand using Sony's interface to Android TV.


Tivo is just another app. The UI is unchanged. If you want a totally different UI on Android TV, get an AT&T TV box. But that's far worse than the base Android TV UI in my opinion since you no longer have access to most of the system settings and it starts streaming the moment you turn it on. And of course AT&T TV service is insanely expensive, as much as traditional cable or satellite.

Google's new upcoming Chromecast replacement might improve the situation though.


----------



## Alex_7

mrizzo80 said:


> Anyone else notice on 4x3 content that the backlight is too bright? The black bars are basically gray. I have an LCD TV, so I don't expect jet black bars, but it's almost distracting. Fire TV handled this better.


Same here, I had to turn off my dynamic contrast and change my tv settings to "Game" that helped turn the bars black for me


----------



## NashGuy

mdavej said:


> Tivo is just another app. The UI is unchanged. If you want a totally different UI on Android TV, get an AT&T TV box. But that's far worse than the base Android TV UI in my opinion since you no longer have access to most of the system settings and it starts streaming the moment you turn it on. And of course AT&T TV service is insanely expensive, as much as traditional cable or satellite.
> 
> Google's new upcoming Chromecast replacement might improve the situation though.


No one should get an AT&T TV box unless they plan to subscribe to and use the AT&T TV service, given that its UI and remote control are totally customized for it. Of course, that's why AT&T restricts sales of the device to actual AT&T TV customers.

I haven't used any Android TV device since Google redesigned the home screen to the standard one now in use on the Nvidia Shield, TS4K, Mi Box, etc. It seems to get mixed reviews. I often read that Android TV seems underpowered on smart TVs from Sony and others.

Anyhow, yes, the redesigned UI in the leaked screenshots for Google's forthcoming Android TV dongle (code-named Sabrina) definitely look like an upgrade to me. Hopefully Google will be able to get all the major apps to work with their universal watchlist feature, as Apple TV has done with everyone except Netflix. That's the tricky part when it comes to creating a great UX with a content-oriented UI.


----------



## BillyClyde

cwoody222 said:


> None.
> 
> Just an intelligent understanding of the industry and business we're discussing here.


I could say the same.


----------



## BillyClyde

NashGuy said:


> But at this point, reality has set in among TiVo die-hards and only BillyClyde seems to think that such a thing might possibly ever happen.


I didn't say it would happen. I just said it's possible. And it is.


----------



## BillyClyde

mdavej said:


> Tivo is just another app. The UI is unchanged. If you want a totally different UI on Android TV, get an AT&T TV box. But that's far worse than the base Android TV UI in my opinion since you no longer have access to most of the system settings and it starts streaming the moment you turn it on. *And of course AT&T TV service is insanely expensive, as much as traditional cable or satellite. *
> 
> Google's new upcoming Chromecast replacement might improve the situation though.


You can use the cheaper AT&T TV Now with it. You don't have to have the expensive AT&T TV with a 24 month contract.


----------



## NashGuy

BillyClyde said:


> I didn't say it would happen. I just said it's possible. And it is.


Lots of things are _possible _even though they are highly improbable. I guess it's also _possible_ that Google will buy TiVo and use their Hydra UI on all Google video apps and devices. But there are no observable reasons to believe that might happen. Meanwhile, there are several observable reasons to think it won't. Same holds true with the scenario you're wishing for.


----------



## NashGuy

BillyClyde said:


> You can use the cheaper AT&T TV Now with it. You don't have to have the expensive AT&T TV with a 24 month contract.


Unless this has recently changed, AT&T won't sell their AT&T TV box to customers subscribed to AT&T TV Now, only those those with AT&T TV. But if you buy one of those boxes used (off of eBay or wherever), you should be able to use it with an AT&T TV Now account.


----------



## mdavej

BillyClyde said:


> You can use the cheaper AT&T TV Now with it. You don't have to have the expensive AT&T TV with a 24 month contract.


I know. I did precisely that for over a year, until AT&T TV NOW got insanely expensive. Except for Watch, all the AT&T TV streaming services are insanely expensive. My AT&T TV NOW plan started at $35. By the time I cancelled it was up to $70 for the same exact channels or $85+ for even fewer channels.



NashGuy said:


> Unless this has recently changed, AT&T won't sell their AT&T TV box to customers subscribed to AT&T TV Now, only those those with AT&T TV. But if you buy one of those boxes used (off of eBay or wherever), you should be able to use it with an AT&T TV Now account.


Correct. A box off ebay works fine with NOW. Obviously, it's a doorstop without AT&T TV or AT&T TV NOW as you said. The box won't work with Watch either, AFAIK.


----------



## NashGuy

mdavej said:


> The box won't work with Watch either, AFAIK.


Yeah, I've never heard of anyone being able to use the box with AT&T Watch TV. Speaking of which, it probably won't be around much longer anyway. It stopped taking new subscribers today.

AT&T is killing its cheap TV bundle for cord cutters

It was only ever really meant, I think, as a freebie to include with upper-tier AT&T Wireless plans, which is a role that HBO Max now fills.

After having a mess of different brands and services, AT&T is slowly culling their video offerings down to just HBO Max and AT&T TV.


----------



## Alex_7

NashGuy said:


> Yeah, I've never heard of anyone being able to use the box with AT&T Watch TV. Speaking of which, it probably won't be around much longer anyway. It stopped taking new subscribers today.
> 
> AT&T is killing its cheap TV bundle for cord cutters
> 
> It was only ever really meant, I think, as a freebie to include with upper-tier AT&T Wireless plans, which is a role that HBO Max now fills.
> 
> After having a mess of different brands and services, AT&T is slowly culling their video offerings down to just HBO Max and AT&T TV.


I heard pretty soon they will merge HBO Max and ATT TV into one service/app.


----------



## mdavej

Alex_7 said:


> I heard pretty soon they will merge HBO Max and ATT TV into one service/app.


That makes no sense at all.


----------



## Alex_7

mdavej said:


> That makes no sense at all.


I know.. AT&T comes up with the weirdest ideas, don't get me started with all their different tv service names 
AT&T's Stankey: HBO Max, AT&T TV Will Eventually Be Bundled Together


----------



## mdavej

Alex_7 said:


> I know.. AT&T comes up with the weirdest ideas, don't get me started with all their different tv service names
> AT&T's Stankey: HBO Max, AT&T TV Will Eventually Be Bundled Together


Bundled together makes perfect sense, as does giving access to all HBO Max content within the AT&T TV app. But turning HBO Max and AT&T TV into a single product makes no sense. If they did that, then nobody could get just HBO. They'd have to pay $165 for a single product that has 200 channels they don't want. That would never fly. I don't like HBO enough to pay more than $5 for it, much less $165.


----------



## BillyClyde

NashGuy said:


> Lots of things are _possible _even though they are highly improbable. I guess it's also _possible_ that Google will buy TiVo and use their Hydra UI on all Google video apps and devices. But there are no observable reasons to believe that might happen. Meanwhile, there are several observable reasons to think it won't. Same holds true with the scenario you're wishing for.


You two were making it out like it was impossible and simply couldn't happen, but it can and it is _possible_. Sling IS an MSO, no different than AT&T TV (why do you think they had to negotiate their own deals, separate from DirecTV, for channels and still can't offer NFL ST, etc.?) at least enough so that Google would allow them to use Operator Tier, should they decide they wanted to.


----------



## cwoody222

Sling is not an MSO.

Sling is OOT like Hulu Live and YouTubeTV.

Since you want definitions, per the FCC the difference is if the service is transmitted to your home by the same entity or freely over the internet.

Over-the-top media service - Wikipedia

Wikipedia does categorize ATT TV as an OOT service.
AT&T TV - Wikipedia

But, as already discussed in this thread, features of ATT TV (contract, proprietary rented boxes, internet bundles) seems to let them operate in a grey area where Google has allowed them to use the Operator Tier.

But Sling is clearly an OOT, by FCC definition. Therefore, unless google makes an exception, they would not be allowed to use the Operator Tier.

The reason the Operator Tier exists is so a company couldn't use Android to create a better retail device than Googles own devices and create completion for them.

Google cares less about a regional MSO creating an experience on a proprietary rental box since that is less likely to compete with their nationwide retail ambitions.

If Sling sold a retail box using a customized Android TV interface that rivaled Chromecast, google would be competing against themself.

The exception here being Amazon who sells a highly customized retail Android box. We do not know the business relationship between Amazon and Google to allow this situation.

But, back to the topic, Sling is not MSO according to the FCC. They are OOT.


----------



## cwoody222

BillyClyde said:


> Sling IS an MSO, no different than AT&T TV ..... at least enough so that Google would allow them to use Operator Tier, should they decide they wanted to.


Proof? Links? Documents? Regulations? Or pure speculation?


----------



## BillyClyde

cwoody222 said:


> Sling is not an MSO.
> 
> Sling is OOT like Hulu Live and YouTubeTV.


Neither is AT&T TV, as you rightly point out. By the way, you forgot to add AT&T TV to that list. ;-)



cwoody222 said:


> Since you want definitions, per the FCC the difference is if the service is transmitted to your home by the same entity or freely over the internet.
> 
> Over-the-top media service - Wikipedia
> 
> Wikipedia does categorize ATT TV as an OOT service.
> AT&T TV - Wikipedia
> 
> But, as already discussed in this thread, features of ATT TV (contract, proprietary rented boxes, internet bundles) seems to let them operate in a grey area where Google has allowed them to use the Operator Tier.
> 
> But Sling is clearly an OOT, by FCC definition. Therefore, unless google makes an exception, they would not be allowed to use the Operator Tier.
> 
> The reason the Operator Tier exists is so a company couldn't use Android to create a better retail device than Googles own devices and create completion for them.
> 
> Google cares less about a regional MSO creating an experience on a proprietary rental box since that is less likely to compete with their nationwide retail ambitions.
> 
> If Sling sold a retail box using a customized Android TV interface that rivaled Chromecast, google would be competing against themself.
> 
> The exception here being Amazon who sells a highly customized retail Android box. We do not know the business relationship between Amazon and Google to allow this situation.
> 
> But, back to the topic, Sling is not MSO according to the FCC. They are OOT.


I think you mean OTT, not OOT.

The boxes aren't rented. You buy and own them. That's why there's so many on eBay.

OK, I got the acronym wrong. It shouldn't be called MSO, it should be MVPD. And guess what, BOTH AT&T TV and Sling are categorized as an MVPD!










So therefore:

1. AT&T TV = MVPD = Can and does use Android Operator Tier

2. SlingTV = MVPD = Can also use Android Operator Tier if they want (with enough cash, as I said)

So Google has apparently set the precedent that they'll allow MVPDs to use the Operator Tier. They let AT&T TV use Operator Tier, so they'd certainly let Sling TV use it too. Coincidentally, both AT&T TV and Sling's parent companies have traditional residential TV broadcast platforms too, DirecTV and DISH, so the similarities and possibilities are even more evidence it could happen if they wanted to and Sling provided enough capital to make it worth Google's time.

Thanks for proving my point! Did you even read your own links?

We are just going around and around here. Let's agree to disagree. OK, go ahead and have the last word, but also have a wonderful day and stay safe out there!


----------



## cwoody222

BillyClyde said:


> They let AT&T TV use Operator Tier, so they'd certainly let Sling TV use it too.


Proof? Links? Documents? Regulations? Or pure speculation?


----------



## cwoody222

But again, what device are you talking about?

You are talking about SlingTV. I thought we were here to talk about devices MADE BY TIVO.

TiVo is in no way shape or form any type of video distributor that would qualify to use the Operator Tier. There is no way that any RETAIL device SOLD BY TIVO would be allowed to use the Operator Tier.

It's fine if you're talking about the POSSIBILITY of a device MADE BY SLING but the Stream 4K is not made or sold by Sling.


----------



## NashGuy

Alex_7 said:


> I heard pretty soon they will merge HBO Max and ATT TV into one service/app.





mdavej said:


> That makes no sense at all.





mdavej said:


> Bundled together makes perfect sense, as does giving access to all HBO Max content within the AT&T TV app. But turning HBO Max and AT&T TV into a single product makes no sense. If they did that, then nobody could get just HBO. They'd have to pay $165 for a single product that has 200 channels they don't want. That would never fly. I don't like HBO enough to pay more than $5 for it, much less $165.


The plan that AT&T has discussed/leaked multiple times is that AT&T TV Now (not AT&T TV) will eventually get absorbed into HBO Max as an optional add-on tier. I would argue that that makes a lot of sense. As it stands now, AT&T TV Now is just the contract-free, promo-free, no-custom-box-included version of AT&T TV. Both services offer the same channel packages and line-ups, but have different prices. (AT&T TV is a better value if plan to keep either service for at least a year.) While AT&T TV is marketed as the company's new flagship cable TV service, and aggressively bundled with AT&T home broadband, AT&T TV Now targets cord-cutters and isn't really actively marketed at all any more.

Rather than have AT&T TV Now indefinitely exist as an awkward appendage of the main AT&T TV brand, at some point (maybe late 2020, maybe 2021) they'll kill AT&T TV Now and instead offer one or more live cable bundles as optional add-ons inside of HBO Max, the same thing Hulu has been doing for years. Given that the contract-free HBO Max is the company's main play for cord-cutters, it makes more sense to also make that app home to their contract-free cable TV service targeting that crowd. And as I've said before, HBO Max is becoming the company's foundational video offering and if you only want one service from them, they want it to be HBO Max, not the cable bundle.


----------



## NashGuy

BillyClyde said:


> You two were making it out like it was impossible and simply couldn't happen, but it can and it is _possible_. Sling IS an MSO, no different than AT&T TV (why do you think they had to negotiate their own deals, separate from DirecTV, for channels and still can't offer NFL ST, etc.?) at least enough so that Google would allow them to use Operator Tier, should they decide they wanted to.


No, Sling is not an MSO. They're a vMVPD owned by a satellite TV company (DISH). AT&T is an MSO (multi-system operator that offers both broadband and cable TV) who operates a vMVPD (AT&T TV) as their flagship cable TV service. They market and provision that vMVPD in a way that's more similar to traditional MVPDs than to vMVPDs like Sling, Hulu Live, or AT&T TV Now.


----------



## mdavej

@NashGuy Still makes no sense. If HBO Max morphs into just an AT&T TV / HBO Max combo, the cheapest HBO Max available would be $100 and include a bunch of cable channels most people already have. They would lose millions of cable, satellite, OTA and streaming customers who currently just get HBO Max as a $15 add-on.


----------



## lparsons21

mdavej said:


> @NashGuy Still makes no sense. If HBO Max morphs into just an AT&T TV / HBO Max combo, the cheapest HBO Max available would be $100 and include a bunch of cable channels most people already have. They would lose millions of cable, satellite, OTA and streaming customers who currently just get HBO Max as a $15 add-on.


I think you missed his point. He thinks that HBO Max will be there for $15 but have add-ons available to expand it into some bigger channel selection. Essentially just a marketing change. The problem I see with that is that the prices for ATT subscriptions without contracts and associated ETF are just outrageously high. IMO, just another non-starter.

But IMO, HBO Max, while a fine offering in no way can replace the other subscriptions and certainly would reduce ATT revenues to a fraction of what they are today. And of course there is the issue that HBO Max is not available on 70% of streaming devices out there.


----------



## NashGuy

lparsons21 said:


> I think you missed his point. He thinks that HBO Max will be there for $15 but have add-ons available to expand it into some bigger channel selection. Essentially just a marketing change. The problem I see with that is that the prices for ATT subscriptions without contracts and associated ETF are just outrageously high. IMO, just another non-starter.
> 
> But IMO, HBO Max, while a fine offering in no way can replace the other subscriptions and certainly would reduce ATT revenues to a fraction of what they are today. And of course there is the issue that HBO Max is not available on 70% of streaming devices out there.


Yes, HBO Max (all ad-free) will still be $15, with the option of adding one or more packages of live cable channels with cloud DVR, same as Hulu with Live TV (which is $12 ad-free and then an extra $49 to add the Live TV package with basic cloud DVR). What that HBO Max cable channel add-on package(s) will look like and how much it'll cost, we'll have to wait and see. (There will also be a cheaper, or possibly even free, tier of HBO Max with ads that debuts in 2021.) But all this probably won't happen until the HBO Max app is available on more devices. It'll eventually get there on Roku, I think. Amazon, IDK. (Or care.) Until that time, I guess they'll keep around AT&T TV Now.

At any rate, I don't think AT&T is super-concerned about selling cable TV subscriptions to contract-free cord-cutters. Unlike Google (YTTV) and Hulu, AT&T already has a big business selling cable TV packages to non-cord-cutters via DirecTV, AT&T TV and Uverse TV. They know that business will continue to dwindle away over time but I don't think they're especially interested in hastening that demise by offering competing cord-cutter packages that can be dropped and picked up any time (e.g. subscribe only for basketball season) at monthly prices that would leave them very low profit margins. And that's basically what Google and Hulu are doing. But then these are new additive ventures for those companies and what they're doing with Hulu Live and YTTV doesn't undercut any of their existing core businesses.


----------



## lparsons21

I disagree with ATT’s thinking on this. If nothing else, we found out that live streaming isn’t all that great when new shows/episodes are not there, and in the process we found a plethora of shows all over the place with other apps.

IMO, I don’t think that what ATT is saying publicly about what they want to do with streaming products is more than just a pipe dream that will go away like smoke in a breeze. So far exactly none of their streaming products has been a success by any measure.


----------



## Alex_7

I dropped ATT&T TV Now 

I’ve had it since it used to be Direct tv Now
I was on a grandfathered lineup. Prices began to increase. I was finally fed up and left.


----------



## NashGuy

lparsons21 said:


> I disagree with ATT's thinking on this. If nothing else, we found out that live streaming isn't all that great when new shows/episodes are not there, and in the process we found a plethora of shows all over the place with other apps.
> 
> IMO, I don't think that what ATT is saying publicly about what they want to do with streaming products is more than just a pipe dream that will go away like smoke in a breeze. So far exactly none of their streaming products has been a success by any measure.


All cable TV services are dying. It's all in long-term decline. Satellite TV is dying the fastest but the overall numbers, including when you add in streaming cable TV subs (e.g. YouTube TV), are in decline. Nothing's going to stop that and I think AT&T realizes that. (And just wait until Disney decides to offer all of ESPN's live content as a standalone streaming service without the need for a cable channel package.)

Meanwhile, HBO has continued to gain more subscribers over the past few years by making it available not only via traditional cable packages but also as a standalone streaming service. I don't see any reason why that trend won't continue now that they're making HBO an even better value with HBO Max, which more than doubles the content while holding the price at the same level. HBO Max is their long-term play, and it'll eventually offer live sports and news alongside its on-demand library.


----------



## lparsons21

Regardless of the growth of HBO Max it is still a $15 product which is much less revenue than their other services cost. It would take a heck of a lot of growth to overcome that.

I like HBO Max, it is a great offering but it in no way can be THE service to replace all the other services that have declining subscribers that were paying more than HBO Max costs.


----------



## NashGuy

lparsons21 said:


> Regardless of the growth of HBO Max it is still a $15 product which is much less revenue than their other services cost. It would take a heck of a lot of growth to overcome that.
> 
> I like HBO Max, it is a great offering but it in no way can be THE service to replace all the other services that have declining subscribers that were paying more than HBO Max costs.


Well, first off, the overall profitability of the video entertainment industry is probably going downhill. It's simply the Netflix effect. So any company that was a major cable TV operator will see profits decline as the bundle continues to lose subscribers.

AT&T will offset those losses to some extent, though, with their own direct-to-consumer video service, HBO Max. (Comcast will do the same with Peacock.) The vast majority of HBO Max content is owned by WarnerMedia. The same is not true for the standard bundle of cable channels sold via DirecTV or AT&T TV; AT&T pays other companies a lot of money to include their channels in those bundles.

Revenue from the $15-per-sub HBO Max will never approach the level of revenue they got from their $100-per-sub cable TV packages but it may become more _profitable_ for them (relative to underlying costs) than those cable TV services several years down the road. We'll see. At any rate, from the perspective of an AT&T shareholder, at least the company has a solid offering (HBO Max) in the new form of video entertainment (OTT SVOD) that's replacing the cable TV bundle. The same cannot be said for any other MVPD besides Comcast.


----------



## lparsons21

For a product you think is ATT’s video future it has to be noted that it is still not officially on about 70% of the streaming boxes out there. That’s a huge market they are missing.


----------



## cwoody222

lparsons21 said:


> For a product you think is ATT's video future it has to be noted that it is still not officially on about 70% of the streaming boxes out there. That's a huge market they are missing.


Still?

It's been what? Less than a month?


----------



## lparsons21

cwoody222 said:


> Still?
> 
> It's been what? Less than a month?


No a bit more than a month


----------



## brotherali

God so much crap to scroll past. Isnt there somewhere else to talk about ATT, FCC definitions?


----------



## rczrider

brotherali said:


> God so much crap to scroll past. Isnt there somewhere else to talk about ATT, FCC definitions?


It's probably because the TS4K is a dead topic. Buggy, no fixes, no innovation, and real competition is just around the corner.

If it were more compelling, folks wouldn't turn to other topics.


----------



## foghorn2

YouBoob Tv goes up to $65/mo . Sling can grab those customers since its only $30 min per pack, $50 for both packs.Too bad this stream sucks and the AirTv Mini 4K is the better product. Tivo looses again.

Id rather pay $79 for the superior AirTV(or prepay sling for a few month and get it free) then waste money on a buggy crappy TiVo product.


----------



## rczrider

foghorn2 said:


> Id rather pay $79 for the superior AirTV(or prepay sling for a few month and get it free) then waste money on a buggy crappy TiVo product.


And that's what it comes down to. At this point, the Mi Stick TV 4K and Google Sabrina will be competing with AirTV, not the TS4K, and so can charge more.


----------



## foghorn2

rczrider said:


> And that's what it comes down to. At this point, the Mi Stick TV 4K and Google Sabrina will be competing with AirTV, not the TS4K, and so can charge more.


If they have better remotes, I'd get one, but for now The AirTv is perfect with its remote.


----------



## 241705

As I'm about to go OTA again, I was thinking of buying the TS4K as a supplemental sreaming device. However, it sounds like I'll be better off adding a Roku (or some other, established, streamer).


----------



## mdavej

blackngold75 said:


> As I'm about to go OTA again, I was thinking of buying the TS4K as a supplemental sreaming device. However, it sounds like I'll be better off adding a Roku (or some other, established, streamer).


Since you're going OTA, there is no need for a supplemental streamer. You can do OTA and streaming with the same device. Just run Google Live Channels, Channels, HD Homerun or Sling (Air TV) on the TS4K or some other device. If you already have Fire sticks, just get a Recast and do all your streaming and OTA on that.

Roku would be at the bottom of my list for an OTA and streaming device since it can't run Google Live Channels, as far as I know.

I personally have used Recast for a couple of years now for OTA DVR and streaming. Works great and integrates a couple of other streaming services into the OTA guide.

Although I listed HD Homerun as an option, I wouldn't hesitate to buy their tuner, but I cannot recommend their DVR service/app. It's really terrible. But you can use their tuner with most DVR apps, as long as you don't buy an old one.


----------



## aaronwt

blackngold75 said:


> As I'm about to go OTA again, I was thinking of buying the TS4K as a supplemental sreaming device. However, it sounds like I'll be better off adding a Roku (or some other, established, streamer).


Definitely!!


----------



## NashGuy

mdavej said:


> Since you're going OTA, there is no need for a supplemental streamer. You can do OTA and streaming with the same device. Just run Google Live Channels, Channels, HD Homerun or Sling (Air TV) on the TS4K or some other device. If you already have Fire sticks, just get a Recast and do all your streaming and OTA on that.


I'm intrigued at the possibility of using Google's Live Channels app with free OTA DVR service in conjunction with my HD HomeRun Connect tuners. From what I can gather, though, the most recent version of the app introduced some problems/bugs.

The leaked UI screenshots from Google's upcoming Android TV dongle (code-named Sabrina) show a new "Live" tab in the home screen UI that will incorporate live channels from YouTube TV. I'm hoping that this tab is essentially a new version of the Live Channels app and will continue to support OTA tuners and offer basic free OTA DVR features. (Or, if not that, that they'll fix the Live Channels app's DVR bugs.)

I realize that using Live Channels for DVR means having your recordings stored on a connected hard drive and accessible only on that particular Android TV device. But given that I only watch on my main big-screen TV, that's sufficient for me.


----------



## mdavej

NashGuy said:


> I'm intrigued at the possibility of using Google's Live Channels app with free OTA DVR service in conjunction with my HD HomeRun Connect tuners. From what I can gather, though, the most recent version of the app introduced some problems/bugs.
> 
> The leaked UI screenshots from Google's upcoming Android TV dongle (code-named Sabrina) show a new "Live" tab in the home screen UI that will incorporate live channels from YouTube TV. I'm hoping that this tab is essentially a new version of the Live Channels app and will continue to support OTA tuners and offer basic free OTA DVR features. (Or, if not that, that they'll fix the Live Channels app's DVR bugs.)
> 
> I realize that using Live Channels for DVR means having your recordings stored on a connected hard drive and accessible only on that particular Android TV device. But given that I only watch on my main big-screen TV, that's sufficient for me.


Yeah, Live Channels has always been a little buggy. Perhaps even more now. I honestly haven't used in quite a while. There appeared to be just one developer toiling over it for years. He would frequent the Channel Master Stream+ thread and give us updates.

I hope you're right about Sabrina replacing Live Channels with the Live tab. That would be great. Even if it doesn't, Live Channels own guide already aggregates several streaming sources plus OTA which used to work pretty well, a lot better than Recast, IMO.


----------



## 241705

mdavej said:


> Since you're going OTA, there is no need for a supplemental streamer.


My plan was to use my Roamio and Bolt for OTA viewing/recording, but then adding a streamer for anything I might want to add that I was missing. However, Verizon offered to drop $30/month off of my current package, and that's compelling enough to stay with my service for now.

Back to the original topic: I was really interested in getting the Stream4K, and if it integrated with my existing TiVo boxes it would have been a done deal. Without that, no reason I'd choose the Stream4K over a Roku.


----------



## jaselzer

blackngold75 said:


> My plan was to use my Roamio and Bolt for OTA viewing/recording, but then adding a streamer for anything I might want to add that I was missing. However, Verizon offered to drop $30/month off of my current package, and that's compelling enough to stay with my service for now.
> 
> Back to the original topic: I was really interested in getting the Stream4K, and if it integrated with my existing TiVo boxes it would have been a done deal. Without that, no reason I'd choose the Stream4K over a Roku.


HBO Max is the only reason I can think of tbh.


----------



## NashGuy

jaselzer said:


> HBO Max is the only reason I can think of tbh.


Peacock is another reason. Looks like it probably won't be on Roku (or Fire TV) at launch either, but will be on Android TV devices like the TiVo Stream 4K. In fact, all Android TV and Android devices will get free access to the $5/mo Peacock Premium tier for three months, until Oct. 15.

Peacock to Launch Nationally on Google Platforms and Devices on July 15


----------



## Alex_7

Cool I didn’t know about the free access for Android users. 

seems like roku and amazon are becoming money hungry lately regarding carriage disputes with hbo max and peacock..


----------



## aaronwt

NashGuy said:


> Peacock is another reason. Looks like it probably won't be on Roku (or Fire TV) at launch either, but will be on Android TV devices like the TiVo Stream 4K. In fact, all Android TV and Android devices will get free access to the $5/mo Peacock Premium tier for three months, until Oct. 15.
> 
> Peacock to Launch Nationally on Google Platforms and Devices on July 15


I only wish the $5 tier had no commercials.

It's going to suck in 2022 when Peacock can pull their content from Hulu and only have it available on Peacock. Because then I will need to subscribe to Peacock to get the same content I currently have on Hulu from Comcast NBC channels.

I read in 2021 that Peacock can start streaming those shows but no exclusivity until 2022.


----------



## Noelmel

aaronwt said:


> I only wish the $5 tier had no commercials.
> 
> It's going to suck in 2022 when Peacock can pull their content from Hulu and only have it available on Peacock. Because then I will need to subscribe to Peacock to get the same content I currently have on Hulu from Comcast NBC channels.
> 
> I read in 2021 that Peacock can start streaming those shows but no exclusivity until 2022.


I know that's what I'm afraid of too. I went ahead and did the special deal first year for $29.99 (ads) I already have ad free Hulu. It didn't seem worth an extra $50 for no ads since a lot of the shows will be on both for now (except Peacock originals)

My cousin is currently in the free Comcast / Xfinity beta and said the ads are much less as it is. Maybe only one 30 second one unlike Hulu's multiple 90 seconds

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NashGuy

aaronwt said:


> I only wish the $5 tier had no commercials.
> 
> It's going to suck in 2022 when Peacock can pull their content from Hulu and only have it available on Peacock. Because then I will need to subscribe to Peacock to get the same content I currently have on Hulu from Comcast NBC channels.
> 
> I read in 2021 that Peacock can start streaming those shows but no exclusivity until 2022.


Yeah, if you really need to ditch those 5 minutes of ads per hour, you'll have to pay $10/mo.

I've read that when they do introduce 4K HDR (which is on the roadmap), it will likely be a feature exclusive to the $5 and $10 Premium tiers.

As for NBCU-owned series, yeah, I think they can yank a lot of it away from Hulu, if they want, starting in 2022. But some content will have to remain on Hulu until late 2024. My guess is that they'll be able to take full current and past seasons off Hulu come 2022 but they'll have to keep putting up at least the most recent five episodes of all their current series on Hulu until the start of the 2024 fall TV season. It's at that point when I can see a lot of folks choosing to upgrade from Peacock's free tier to the Premium tier since the free tier only includes next-day access to current NBC series that are in their freshman season.

Also, 2024 is when it looks like Comcast will sell their 1/3 stake to Disney, based on an independent valuation of the business at that time. So Comcast is playing a balancing game; they don't want to de-value Hulu too much before they sell out their stake but OTOH they want to increase the appeal of Peacock.


----------



## rczrider

Regarding Peacock (and all the others)...not advocating, just sharing.


----------



## rczrider

Xiaomi's "Ecosystem Product Launch" is today. They tweeted about the 1080p Mi TV Stick already...I wonder if they'll bring up the 4K variant during the actual event. It would be weird if they didn't (unless, for some reason, they're not prepared to launch it).


----------



## cwoody222

Anyone try Peacock yet today?

Android devices are supposed to get a 3-month free trial of Premium ($4.99/mo). I downloaded the app on my TiVo Stream 4k and signed up for an account. I'm only showing as having the basic plan. Went to their website to try to upgrade and it wants to make me pay.

Tried again using a Gmail address. Same outcome. I signed up ON the TiVo Stream 4K, I don't have an Android phone to signup from.

Anyone figure out how to unlock the free Premium offer? Assuming the TiVo Stream 4k qualifies as an Android TV device (it should).


----------



## Noelmel

cwoody222 said:


> Anyone try Peacock yet today?
> 
> Android devices are supposed to get a 3-month free trial of Premium ($4.99/mo). I downloaded the app on my TiVo Stream 4k and signed up for an account. I'm only showing as having the basic plan. Went to their website to try to upgrade and it wants to make me pay.
> 
> Tried again using a Gmail address. Same outcome. I signed up ON the TiVo Stream 4K, I don't have an Android phone to signup from.
> 
> Anyone figure out how to unlock the free Premium offer? Assuming the TiVo Stream 4k qualifies as an Android TV device (it should).


I tried downloading about an hour ago and wasn't on google play store yet. Downloaded on my iPhone and Apple TV tho. There's another thread about Peacock and I know someone put a screen shot of how to link to your provider but only showed Comcast / Cox / Xfinity

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cwoody222

Figured it out. Shortly after I posted here, I got an email confirmation (to both Gmail and non-Gmail signup emails) which contained a Promo code to get free Premium access (upgraded on the Peacock website).

Email took around 10 minutes to arrive; and I hadn't expected to need that. But, now it works and the app on TiVo Stream 4k show me having Premium.


----------



## shwru980r

blackngold75 said:


> My plan was to use my Roamio and Bolt for OTA viewing/recording, but then adding a streamer for anything I might want to add that I was missing. However, Verizon offered to drop $30/month off of my current package, and that's compelling enough to stay with my service for now.
> 
> Back to the original topic: I was really interested in getting the Stream4K, and if it integrated with my existing TiVo boxes it would have been a done deal. Without that, no reason I'd choose the Stream4K over a Roku.


Roku doesn't have a browser. Content that is not allowed YouTube is on various alliterative video streaming services that you need a browser to view.


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## aaronwt

cwoody222 said:


> Anyone try Peacock yet today?
> 
> Android devices are supposed to get a 3-month free trial of Premium ($4.99/mo). I downloaded the app on my TiVo Stream 4k and signed up for an account. I'm only showing as having the basic plan. Went to their website to try to upgrade and it wants to make me pay.
> 
> Tried again using a Gmail address. Same outcome. I signed up ON the TiVo Stream 4K, I don't have an Android phone to signup from.
> 
> Anyone figure out how to unlock the free Premium offer? Assuming the TiVo Stream 4k qualifies as an Android TV device (it should).


Doesn't that version still have commercials?


----------



## Noelmel

aaronwt said:


> Doesn't that version still have commercials?


Yes but "limited commercials" so less than the free for everyone tier. My cousin has had the Comcast beta for 3 months. She said it's like one 30 second commercial instead of multiple 90 second ones like Hulu.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cwoody222

Yes, but I cared less to get rid of commercials than I did about viewing the original shows (not available on the most basic free plan).


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## NashGuy

aaronwt said:


> Doesn't that version still have commercials?


Still has commercials (reportedly no more than 5 minutes per hour) but has lots more content. Peacock Premium has over 20,000 hrs of content while the free tier has over 13,000 hrs.


----------



## morac

Noelmel said:


> Yes but "limited commercials" so less than the free for everyone tier. My cousin has had the Comcast beta for 3 months. She said it's like one 30 second commercial instead of multiple 90 second ones like Hulu.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The difference between the free and premium tier isn't the number of commercials, it's the catalog size. The free version has a limited selection compared with the premium plan, which has access to the entire catalog. The premium plus plan is almost commercial free (some things still have commercials).

Of note if you have Comcast or Cox you can get the premium plan for free.


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## NashGuy

For anyone who was still holding out hope for TiVo Stream 4K integration with TiVo DVRs, you can stop hoping now...

Our TiVo Stream 4K DVR Extension Dreams Are Dead

Guess you'll have to stick with the TiVo Mini, which just got the backlit remote and a price hike to $200 under the name TiVo Mini Lux.


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## BillyClyde

NashGuy said:


> For anyone who was still holding out hope for TiVo Stream 4K integration with TiVo DVRs, you can stop hoping now...
> 
> Our TiVo Stream 4K DVR Extension Dreams Are Dead
> 
> Guess you'll have to stick with the TiVo Mini, which just got the backlit remote and a price hike to $200 under the name TiVo Mini Lux.


But that statement by TiVoPM was 22 days ago, and about 10 days after that statement, he said what I quoted here:

Major update coming before July according to CNET

What else could be such big news and _"close to this community's hearts"_? Maybe integration with other OTT providers besides SlingTV?


----------



## aaronwt

BillyClyde said:


> But that statement by TiVoPM was 22 days ago, and about 10 days after that statement, he said what I quoted here:
> 
> Major update coming before July according to CNET
> 
> What else could be such big news and _"close to this community's hearts"_? Maybe integration with other OTT providers besides SlingTV?


Maybe the update stops forced HDR for everything? That would be a major update to stop erroneously showing the content that way. Or has that major issue already been addressed?


----------



## osu1991

aaronwt said:


> Maybe the update stops forced HDR for everything? That would be a major update to stop erroneously showing the content that way. Or has that major issue already been addressed?


Nope, still has HDR on all the time.


----------



## NashGuy

BillyClyde said:


> But that statement by TiVoPM was 22 days ago, and about 10 days after that statement, he said what I quoted here:
> 
> Major update coming before July according to CNET
> 
> What else could be such big news and _"close to this community's hearts"_? Maybe integration with other OTT providers besides SlingTV?





aaronwt said:


> Maybe the update stops forced HDR for everything? That would be a major update to stop erroneously showing the content that way. Or has that major issue already been addressed?


Yeah, IIRC, that second software update that was originally slated to roll out by the end of June was supposed to address always-on HDR as well as various lingering bugs. Maybe it ends up hitting by end of July instead.

My guess is that the HDR thing is the new feature "close to this community's hearts". The settings will gain a new option similar to Apple TV 4K's "Dynamic Range Matching" feature that, when turned on, sets the dynamic range and color space to match the native values of the streamed content.

Your guess is a good one too. The live TV guide in the Fire TV UI now supports several different OTT vMVPDs, so perhaps one or more of them have also agreed to integrate with the grid guide in the TiVo Stream app. Or maybe the app will integrate some additional SVOD sources, like Showtime, Starz, Epix and/or Peacock.

Anyway, I was just passing along Zatz's latest posting on the matter. Who knows, he could be wrong. But given that the company *just* refreshed the TiVo Mini product line and upped it to $200, it seems unlikely to me that we'll see them turn around and undercut it with a free software update to a $50 product.


----------



## cwoody222

NashGuy said:


> Yeah, IIRC, that second software update that was originally slated to roll out by the end of June was supposed to address always-on HDR as well as various lingering bugs. Maybe it ends up hitting by end of July instead.
> 
> My guess is that the HDR thing is the new feature "close to this community's hearts". The settings will gain a new option similar to Apple TV 4K's "Dynamic Range Matching" feature that, when turned on, sets the dynamic range and color space to match the native values of the streamed content.
> 
> Your guess is a good one too. The live TV guide in the Fire TV UI now supports several different OTT vMVPDs, so perhaps one or more of them have also agreed to integrate with the grid guide in the TiVo Stream app. Or maybe the app will integrate some additional SVOD sources, like Showtime, Starz, Epix and/or Peacock.
> 
> Anyway, I was just passing along Zatz's latest posting on the matter. Who knows, he could be wrong. But given that the company *just* refreshed the TiVo Mini product line and upped it to $200, it seems unlikely to me that we'll see them turn around and undercut it with a free software update to a $50 product.


Even if the Stream 4K gets the ability to access DVR content it won't nearly replicate the experience the mini offers - in features (full control over One Passes) or picture/audio quality.


----------



## NashGuy

cwoody222 said:


> Even if the Stream 4K gets the ability to access DVR content it won't nearly replicate the experience the mini offers - in features (full control over One Passes) or picture/audio quality.


You're right, it wouldn't be a perfect substitute for the Mini. But for a lot of folks, it would be "good enough" and that would eat into Mini sales.

It's interesting to read consumer reaction to the TS4K on this forum versus other sites. Reviews tend to be significantly more positive elsewhere, such as on reddit, on Amazon.com (where the device is now sold), as well as professional reviews. On reddit's cordcutter forum, folks are asking every day now what they should buy to replace their Roku or Fire TV to gain access to HBO Max and/or Peacock and the TS4K for $50 is the most popular response.


----------



## rczrider

NashGuy said:


> It's interesting to read consumer reaction to the TS4K on this forum versus other sites. Reviews tend to be significantly more positive elsewhere, such as on reddit, on Amazon.com (where the device is now sold), as well as professional reviews. On reddit's cordcutter forum, folks are asking every day now what they should buy to replace their Roku or Fire TV to gain access to HBO Max and/or Peacock and the TS4K for $50 is the most popular response.


This blows my mind. I have zero interest in TiVo as a company; I own none of their previous products or services. I don't care whether it integrates with other TiVo offerings. To me, this is a cheap Android TV dongle with all the right specs (on paper).

And with that in mind...it sucks. TiVo butchered the firmware; some of that seems by design ("Who _wouldn't_ want HDR on all the time?") and some seems be accident (random freezes requiring a power pull). Heck, it seems that the _only_ people who have positive responses to the cluttered remote are those who have other TiVo products. I actively hate Roku and don't particularly care for the Fire Stick 4K, but I'd take either over the TS4K.


----------



## NashGuy

rczrider said:


> This blows my mind. I have zero interest in TiVo as a company; I own none of their previous products or services. I don't care whether it integrates with other TiVo offerings. To me, this is a cheap Android TV dongle with all the right specs (on paper).
> 
> And with that in mind...it sucks. TiVo butchered the firmware; some of that seems by design ("Who _wouldn't_ want HDR on all the time?") and some seems be accident (random freezes requiring a power pull). Heck, it seems that the _only_ people who have positive responses to the cluttered remote are those who have other TiVo products. I actively hate Roku and don't particularly care for the Fire Stick 4K, but I'd take either over the TS4K.


Sounds to me like the worst of the initial bugs got squashed in a firmware update a few weeks back. Some folks don't care about always-on HDR (and many don't even have HDR-capable TVs). I see several folks commenting on how snappy the TS4K is, saying it runs faster than their Roku Ultra, etc.

Again, if you get out beyond this site and read users' opinions, they're a lot more favorable. That said, I personally haven't bought one. If I get an Android TV device in the foreseeable future, it will probably be the one Google themselves will launch in the coming weeks/months.


----------



## aaronwt

NashGuy said:


> Yeah, IIRC, that second software update that was originally slated to roll out by the end of June was supposed to address always-on HDR as well as various lingering bugs. Maybe it ends up hitting by end of July instead.
> 
> My guess is that the HDR thing is the new feature "close to this community's hearts". The settings will gain a new option similar to Apple TV 4K's "Dynamic Range Matching" feature that, when turned on, sets the dynamic range and color space to match the native values of the streamed content.
> 
> Your guess is a good one too. The live TV guide in the Fire TV UI now supports several different OTT vMVPDs, so perhaps one or more of them have also agreed to integrate with the grid guide in the TiVo Stream app. Or maybe the app will integrate some additional SVOD sources, like Showtime, Starz, Epix and/or Peacock.
> 
> Anyway, I was just passing along Zatz's latest posting on the matter. Who knows, he could be wrong. But given that the company *just* refreshed the TiVo Mini product line and upped it to $200, it seems unlikely to me that we'll see them turn around and undercut it with a free software update to a $50 product.


There is a new TiVo Mini? Did they make any improvements?


----------



## NashGuy

aaronwt said:


> There is a new TiVo Mini? Did they make any improvements?


As I understand it, they just swapped out the voice remote for the newer _backlit_ voice remote and changed the product name from TiVo Mini Vox to TiVo Mini Lux. And upped the price from $180 to $200.


----------



## trip1eX

NashGuy said:


> You're right, it wouldn't be a perfect substitute for the Mini. But for a lot of folks, it would be "good enough" and that would eat into Mini sales.
> 
> It's interesting to read consumer reaction to the TS4K on this forum versus other sites. Reviews tend to be significantly more positive elsewhere, such as on reddit, on Amazon.com (where the device is now sold), as well as professional reviews. On reddit's cordcutter forum, folks are asking every day now what they should buy to replace their Roku or Fire TV to gain access to HBO Max and/or Peacock and the TS4K for $50 is the most popular response.


It is interesting how opinions/differ from site to site.

but Reddit skews much younger than this site as a rule of thumb. To me going to Reddit is like asking my 19 yr old what he thinks. (There's positive and negatives to that btw.)

Also Tivo STream 4k has only 15 reviews on Amazon and only half are 5 stars. And 11 of the 15 reviews are Vine customer reviews of free product.

Last the question of what device should I get in order to gain accces to HBO Max and Peacock doesn't speak much for the device except that you can get those 2 apps on it. At this moment in time, the TS4 is the only $50 and under device with a remote that can get HBO Max and Peacock so it's the only answer in town if those are your criteria for a streaming box.


----------



## BillyClyde

NashGuy said:


> Yeah, IIRC, that second software update that was originally slated to roll out by the end of June was supposed to address always-on HDR as well as various lingering bugs. Maybe it ends up hitting by end of July instead.
> 
> *My guess is that the HDR thing is the new feature "close to this community's hearts". *The settings will gain a new option similar to Apple TV 4K's "Dynamic Range Matching" feature that, when turned on, sets the dynamic range and color space to match the native values of the streamed content.


Pretty lame if that's all it is! 



NashGuy said:


> Your guess is a good one too. The live TV guide in the Fire TV UI now supports several different OTT vMVPDs, so perhaps one or more of them have also agreed to integrate with the grid guide in the TiVo Stream app. Or maybe the app will integrate some additional SVOD sources, like Showtime, Starz, Epix and/or Peacock.


That wouldn't be too bad, but I can already get those apps elsewhere on the device, so not anything earth shattering for sure.

The best thing to happen to the Stream 4K is the Channels DVR integration with the remote to turn Channels into your pseudo "TiVo DVR" on the Stream 4K, better than they did for themselves!



NashGuy said:


> Anyway, I was just passing along Zatz's latest posting on the matter. Who knows, he could be wrong. But given that the company *just* refreshed the TiVo Mini product line and upped it to $200, it seems unlikely to me that we'll see them turn around and undercut it with a free software update to a $50 product.


But didn't they do something similar when they decided to no longer charge a monthly fee for the Minis? How did that go?


----------



## rczrider

trip1eX said:


> It is interesting how opinions/differ from site to site.
> 
> but Reddit skews much younger than this site as a rule of thumb. To me going to Reddit is like asking my 19 yr old what he thinks. (There's positive and negatives to that btw.)


For good or bad, though, that's who TiVo should be paying attention to.

TiVo as a company with consumer recognition is dying. As I mentioned before, I have none of their products primarily because I was too young (high school and college, with less disposable income) when they were a big name. I was surprised to learn that TiVo was still around. It wasn't until I learned about their bread and butter being what they sell or license to other companies that it made sense.

If the younger crowd thinks the TS4K isn't that great, then they're "right" because TiVo needs their buy-in to continue developing their money making software and algorithms. You can only keep selling your customers the newest version of whatever it is they make so many times. They need to grow their customer base if they want to keep harvesting data from them (which, let's be honest, is all the TS4K exists for).



trip1eX said:


> Also Tivo STream 4k has only 15 reviews on Amazon and only half are 5 stars. And 11 of the 15 reviews are Vine customer reviews of free product.


I forgot that it became available on Amazon. I refuse to risk buying directly from TiVo again, but if they push an update that actually does something of real value, I'll buy from Amazon so I can return it if it still sucks.

I had pretty much decided I wouldn't bother, but with the Mi TV Stick 4K apparently not yet a thing - and no one knowing when Google's Sabrina will show up (_and_ its expected $80 price tag) - the TS4K is unfortunately the only game in town. How or why TiVo isn't leveraging that, I don't know.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

rczrider said:


> I had pretty much decided I wouldn't bother, but with the Mi TV Stick 4K apparently not yet a thing - and no one knowing when Google's Sabrina will show up (_and_ its expected $80 price tag) - the TS4K is unfortunately the only game in town. How or why TiVo isn't leveraging that, I don't know.


Well, there's still the AirTV Mini for what it's worth (and that worth has been $80 since long before the TS4K, though it's from the same OEM and is basically the same hardware platform). They also offer the AirTV 2 to integrate OTA into Sling and/or other Android apps. Overall reviews have not been stellar, but I've seen at least one happy user post about it here on TCF.


----------



## rczrider

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Well, there's still the AirTV Mini for what it's worth (and that worth has been $80 since long before the TS4K, though it's from the same OEM and is basically the same hardware platform).


I think the AirTV Mini is overpriced for what it is, which is why I was waiting for (what I thought would be) multiple releases of this platform (TS4K, Mi Stick 4K, Sabrina/Ultra 2/whatever). It's the reason I've stuck with my Mi Box (original, not S) and Fire Stick 4K for so long.

If I'm going to pay $80, it'll be for the Google product, as it will almost certainly be the most stable and feature-rich, and have the greatest chance of long-term support. The TS4K is compelling for the sole reason that it's $50, but you trade functionality and stability for that $30. The trade-off is unnecessary; I really can't fathom what TiVo was thinking taking away functionality and imposing unnecessary limitations on the device that have almost certainly led to its lack of stability.

I realize that makes it sound like it's a flaming pile of garbage. It's not. It's just not very good, either. It's what I'd expect from a generic Chinese unit under some temporary, fly-by-night brand.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

rczrider said:


> I realize that makes it sound like it's a flaming pile of garbage. It's not. It's just not very good, either. It's what I'd expect from a generic Chinese unit under some temporary, fly-by-night brand.


Agreed, not very good, and also not very innovative. This is not your father's TiVo, so-to-speak. Entirely different ownership and management twice removed. That makes me sad, as I always loved the brand.


----------



## NashGuy

rczrider said:


> I think the AirTV Mini is overpriced for what it is, which is why I was waiting for (what I thought would be) multiple releases of this platform (TS4K, Mi Stick 4K, Sabrina/Ultra 2/whatever). It's the reason I've stuck with my Mi Box (original, not S) and Fire Stick 4K for so long.
> 
> If I'm going to pay $80, it'll be for the Google product, as it will almost certainly be the most stable and feature-rich, and have the greatest chance of long-term support. The TS4K is compelling for the sole reason that it's $50, but you trade functionality and stability for that $30. The trade-off is unnecessary; I really can't fathom what TiVo was thinking taking away functionality and imposing unnecessary limitations on the device that have almost certainly led to its lack of stability.


What functionality that's typical of an Android TV device with these hardware specs did TiVo take away? Seems to me that they only added stuff with the TiVo Stream app and a remote control with additional buttons that cater to traditional linear TV. Granted, there are stability issues/bugs, some of which TiVo has addressed and some which they say they're still working on.

I agree, though, that for this level of hardware running Android TV, I'd rather pay a little more and get it directly from Google, for the reasons you mentioned. And also because Google's own "Sabrina" dongle appears to run a whole new, and probably better, UI design. Remains to be seen whether or how soon that new UI might come to other Android TV devices.

The specs that leaked for Sabrina shows that it has nearly the exact same hardware as the TS4K. While TiVo's dongle has the Amlogic S905Y2 system-on-a-chip, Sabrina has the Amlogic S905X2. The only real difference is that the latter supports ethernet while the former does not.

The hardware in the TS4K is the same thing that Google put in their ADT-3 dongle, released back in Jan. for Android TV developers. And the hardware in Sabrina is the exact same thing in the Verizon Stream TV box. All of these devices have the same CPU and GPU and the same 2GB of RAM and 8GB of storage. Verizon sells their Stream TV box for $70, and will never sell it in the numbers that Google will sell the Sabrina, so Google should be able to easily hit the same $70 retail price point if they want. If they really want to be a major player in the living room, they should trim their margins and sell it for $60, with holiday sale prices of $50 or less.


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## jaselzer

NashGuy said:


> What functionality that's typical of an Android TV device with these hardware specs did TiVo take away? Seems to me that they only added stuff with the TiVo Stream app and a remote control with additional buttons that cater to traditional linear TV. Granted, there are stability issues/bugs, some of which TiVo has addressed and some which they say they're still working on.
> 
> I agree, though, that for this level of hardware running Android TV, I'd rather pay a little more and get it directly from Google, for the reasons you mentioned. And also because Google's own "Sabrina" dongle appears to run a whole new, and probably better, UI design. Remains to be seen whether or how soon that new UI might come to other Android TV devices.
> 
> The specs that leaked for Sabrina shows that it has nearly the exact same hardware as the TS4K. While TiVo's dongle has the Amlogic S905Y2 system-on-a-chip, Sabrina has the Amlogic X905X2. The only real difference is that the latter supports ethernet while the former does not.
> 
> The hardware in the TS4K is the same thing that Google put in their ADT-3 dongle, released back in Jan. for Android TV developers. And the hardware in Sabrina is the exact same thing in the Verizon Stream TV box. All of these devices have the same CPU and GPU and the same 2GB of RAM and 8GB of storage. Verizon sells their Stream TV box for $70, and will never sell it in the numbers that Google will sell the Sabrina, so Google should be able to easily hit the same $70 retail price point if they want. If they really want to be a major player in the living room, they should trim their margins and sell it for $60, with holiday sale prices of $50 or less.


I was curious about Verizon Stream because I have Fios cable tv. I became less than curious when I realized that the Verizon Stream has no integration with Fios cable tv. It is literally a rebranded Android box. Or am I missing something?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NashGuy

jaselzer said:


> I was curious about Verizon Stream because I have Fios cable tv. I became less than curious when I realized that the Verizon Stream has no integration with Fios cable tv. It is literally a rebranded Android box. Or am I missing something?


Pretty sure the Verizon Stream TV is simply a retail Android TV box with whatever apps that Verizon has chosen to pre-install. The home screen is pretty much the standard Google-designed UI.

No, it cannot work with FiOS TV, which is QAM-based (and therefore works with CableCARD TiVos). Verizon extensively beta tested a next-gen managed IPTV service (based on the OnCue tech they acquired from Intel) a few years ago. It was going to be the update/successor to FiOS TV but in the end they abandoned the whole thing. I think they realized that everything was going OTT and traditional cable TV service was dying anyhow.

So instead of having a next-gen cable TV service of their own to sell their new fixed wireless 5G Home customers, they just offer to sell them YouTube TV, with a one-month free trial. When 5G Home launched, they offered new customers a choice between a free Apple TV 4K and Chromecast Ultra. But then they came out with the Verizon Stream TV and give those away instead. If anyone wants an extra one, it costs $70.

I think broadband operators like the idea of having a 4K streaming device that they can offer their broadband-only subs. Perhaps Verizon gets a kickback from Google when someone subscribes to a streaming service via Google Play on the Verizon Stream TV box. Comcast has their own Flex box, which of course runs their own X1 OS. In terms of cable TV boxes, as well as streaming boxes offered by broadband operators, it seems like everything is moving to either X1 or Android TV. Charter is rumored to be looking at basing their next-gen cable TV and streaming boxes on Android TV.


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## rczrider

NashGuy said:


> What functionality that's typical of an Android TV device with these hardware specs did TiVo take away? Seems to me that they only added stuff with the TiVo Stream app and a remote control with additional buttons that cater to traditional linear TV. Granted, there are stability issues/bugs, some of which TiVo has addressed and some which they say they're still working on.


There are quite a few A/V options that come with stock Android (which are present on Mi Box, for example) that they removed some reason that is undoubtedly stupid. The short of it is that they took something functional and broke it. I'm guessing it's sheer incompetence, but it also wouldn't surprise me to find out that they're doing a lot of data collection under the covers, and that the modifications to Android TV for this purpose is a large part of what's causing issues. Given the (relatively) high amount of data that's being sent from these dongles (way more than with my Mi Box or Fire Stick 4K), it's plausible.

They still haven't fixed the black flashing from Plex and Kodi. Again, probably related to some A/V settings they messed with.

As for the remote, it seems that the only people who find it to be a positive addition are those who use previous TiVo products. The reason other streaming devices have simplified remotes is because the extra buttons are pointless. And TiVo forgot _useful_ buttons like FF and RW.



NashGuy said:


> The specs that leaked for Sabrina shows that it has nearly the exact same hardware as the TS4K. While TiVo's dongle has the Amlogic S905Y2 system-on-a-chip, Sabrina has the Amlogic S905X2. The only real difference is that the latter supports ethernet while the former does not.
> 
> The hardware in the TS4K is the same thing that Google put in their ADT-3 dongle, released back in Jan. for Android TV developers. And the hardware in Sabrina is the exact same thing in the Verizon Stream TV box. All of these devices have the same CPU and GPU and the same 2GB of RAM and 8GB of storage.


No one has suggested otherwise. All of these dongles are running the same SoC and so there's no hardware advantage. It's all software; again, TiVo borked the software for some reason and I have more faith that other companies have not. I certainly expect Google's to operate smoothly and with features that are actually useful (unlike the Stream app).

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced the TS4K exists for the sole purpose of data collection, so they can develop and refine the software / algorithms that are the company's only money maker. I think I'd rather pay $20-30 more for a functional device that isn't collecting as much (because of course the Google product will be data mining)...or at least is collecting it competently.


----------



## NashGuy

rczrider said:


> There are quite a few A/V options that come with stock Android (which are present on Mi Box, for example) that they removed some reason that is undoubtedly stupid. The short of it is that they took something functional and broke it. I'm guessing it's sheer incompetence, but it also wouldn't surprise me to find out that they're doing a lot of data collection under the covers, and that the modifications to Android TV for this purpose is a large part of what's causing issues. Given the (relatively) high amount of data that's being sent from these dongles (way more than with my Mi Box or Fire Stick 4K), it's plausible.
> 
> They still haven't fixed the black flashing from Plex and Kodi. Again, probably related to some A/V settings they messed with.


I doubt the bugs have anything to do with whatever data that the TiVo Stream app collects. I'd chalk it up to this being TiVo's first product like this and they didn't get the firmware right in the rush to get this out the door. Can't see how removing whatever A/V settings you're talking about would be related to data collection. Sounds a bit paranoid.



rczrider said:


> As for the remote, it seems that the only people who find it to be a positive addition are those who use previous TiVo products. The reason other streaming devices have simplified remotes is because the extra buttons are pointless. And TiVo forgot _useful_ buttons like FF and RW.


Or people who want a remote that works with linear channel services too, such as Sling, TiVo+ and the Channels app (which now offers an option to customize the remote so that it works natively with their app). I would agree, though, that the 0-9 buttons are generally a waste unless they begin using channel numbers in the TiVo Stream's grid guide (although the Channels app does make use of them). As for FF and RW buttons, those aren't typical on Android TV remotes. You just use the left and right directional buttons.



rczrider said:


> The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced the TS4K exists for the sole purpose of data collection, so they can develop and refine the software / algorithms that are the company's only money maker.


To the extent that there's any real plan for how the TS4K will meaningfully contribute to the bottom line, I think it lies in a combination of thin margins on the hardware, ad revenue from TiVo+ content, user data collection, and maybe some cut from Google for subscriptions/purchases made on the device. But in the near term, I'd say the TS4K is more about corporate window dressing, to show that TiVo's product division is finally doing *something* about streaming.


----------



## rczrider

NashGuy said:


> I doubt the bugs have anything to do with whatever data that the TiVo Stream app collects. I'd chalk it up to this being TiVo's first product like this and they didn't get the firmware right in the rush to get this out the door. Can't see how removing whatever A/V settings you're talking about would be related to data collection. Sounds a bit paranoid.


I didn't say there was a direct relationship between the removal of specific A/V settings and data collection. I never suggested the Stream app was the only thing collecting data, either.

In fact, I pointed out (as others have) that the TS4K is responsible for a comparatively large upload of data and suggested that changes to the firmware for the purpose of collecting data system-wide _could_ contribute to the device's instability.

The fact is that TiVo doesn't make money on hardware. They don't require you to use the Stream app (and given its shortcomings, doing so would make the device a complete failure). At $50, they are probably close to breaking even or operating on extremely thin margins.

So what's the purpose of the device? Given that there is no subscription revenue associated with the TS4K and TiVo as a company survives on software and licensing, it stands to reason that the device's purpose is to collect data for improvement of their software. I'm not quite sure what argument there is against this logic. And so if we accept it as a likely truth and couple that with the abnormally large data uploads and bugs that are the direct result of TiVo messing with things that make no sense for them to mess with (really, tell me what possible value there is them removing A/V options), it is neither an unreasonable nor "paranoid" conclusion that TiVo modified perfectly functional firmware for the purpose of increasing their data collection.

I'm not here to spout conspiracy theories. It's nothing more nefarious than a company doing what companies do: take a loss or break even on a device or service in trade for information than they can sell. I'm not even suggesting they're collection _personally identifiable_ information. What I'm suggesting is that their attempt to modify functional firmware to fit their business model has produced a buggy and lackluster device.


----------



## NashGuy

rczrider said:


> I didn't say there was a direct relationship between the removal of specific A/V settings and data collection. I never suggested the Stream app was the only thing collecting data, either.
> 
> In fact, I pointed out (as others have) that the TS4K is responsible for a comparatively large upload of data and suggested that changes to the firmware for the purpose of collecting data system-wide _could_ contribute to the device's instability.


Sounds like you're suggesting that TiVo has done something with the device firmware, in order to collect system-wide data, that would probably constitute a violation of their Android TV licensing agreement with Google.



rczrider said:


> The fact is that TiVo doesn't make money on hardware. They don't require you to use the Stream app (and given its shortcomings, doing so would make the device a complete failure). At $50, they are probably close to breaking even or operating on extremely thin margins.


The fact is that neither you nor I know the numbers involved. Based on what I know about the hardware, and based on typical sale prices of similarly spec'ed (but much more popular) Fire TV and Roku devices, yes, TiVo is probably not making much on the hardware priced at $50 after accounting for marketing and distribution costs (although, so far, the TS4K is only available directly from TiVo or, more recently, from Amazon, so that reduces those costs).

But then TiVo's original plan was to up the price to $70. We'll see if they're able to do that. If they do, and they're only breaking even at $50, then at $70, they're making $20, which is a decent margin.

The reality, though, is that the price TiVo can charge for the TS4K will be constrained by how Google prices their own upcoming dongle (as well as how Xiaomi prices their Mi TV Stick 4K, if they release it here in the US). Frankly, I think the TS4K will just get overshadowed by the Google device when it rolls out. But if the TS4K costs a few bucks less, maybe it can still sell OK. The increased consumer (and developer) attention toward Android TV in the wake of Google's device launch might even help it.

And no, no one is forced to use the TiVo Stream app. Google's OEM licensing agreement for Android TV precludes TiVo from forcing usage of the app. But TiVo's marketing for the device completely centers on the app. That app and the TiVo remote are what differentiate the device from other Android TV devices. So they certainly expect and hope that buyers will use the app, both in order to gain user data and also to serve up data-enabled targeted ads in the TiVo+ content. (Frankly, I think TiVo+ is kinda pathetic but they're hoping to make something of it.)



rczrider said:


> So what's the purpose of the device? Given that there is no subscription revenue associated with the TS4K and TiVo as a company survives on software and licensing, it stands to reason that the device's purpose is to collect data for improvement of their software.


Actually, it's not clear to me that Android TV OEMs, such as Google, do not receive any subscription revenue. As I mentioned before, it's quite possible that Google gives their OEM partners a cut of the revenue from Google-billed subscriptions that originate on the OEM's device. So if you sign up for HBO Max on a TS4K and pay Google $15/mo, Google gets to keep maybe 20% or so of that. Out of that, I would bet that TiVo gets some amount, for at least a limited amount of time.



rczrider said:


> I'm not quite sure what argument there is against this logic. And so if we accept it as a likely truth and couple that with the abnormally large data uploads and bugs that are the direct result of TiVo messing with things that make no sense for them to mess with (really, tell me what possible value there is them removing A/V options), it is neither an unreasonable nor "paranoid" conclusion that TiVo modified perfectly functional firmware for the purpose of increasing their data collection.


I'm curious, what are these specific A/V options that the TS4K lacks but that are present on other Android TV devices?



rczrider said:


> I'm not here to spout conspiracy theories. It's nothing more nefarious than a company doing what companies do: take a loss or break even on a device or service in trade for information than they can sell. I'm not even suggesting they're collection _personally identifiable_ information. What I'm suggesting is that their attempt to modify functional firmware to fit their business model has produced a buggy and lackluster device.


From what I've read, Android TV OEMs must themselves code the firmware that binds whatever hardware they pick out to Google's Android TV OS. I don't think TiVo got ready-made working firmware for the TS4K from Amlogic (the SoC manufacturer), SEI Robotics (the device manufacturer) or Google, and then altered it in a way to suck up more user data and, oops, those alterations resulted in some A/V options disappearing. I suspect that TiVo just didn't do a great job in creating their own firmware, hence the initial bugs and instability (and perhaps the reason that it's missing some A/V options).


----------



## rczrider

NashGuy said:


> Sounds like you're suggesting that TiVo has done something with the device firmware, in order to collect system-wide data, that would probably constitute a violation of their Android TV licensing agreement with Google.


Clearly you're more familiar with Android TV licensing than I am. Please, tell me what I suggested that specifically violates said licensing. Because I'm not aware of suggesting anything of the sort.



NashGuy said:


> The fact is that neither you nor I know the numbers involved. Based on what I know about the hardware, and based on typical sale prices of similarly spec'ed (but much more popular) Fire TV and Roku devices, yes, TiVo is probably not making much on the hardware priced at $50 after accounting for marketing and distribution costs (although, so far, the TS4K is only available directly from TiVo or, more recently, from Amazon, so that reduces those costs).


I'm guessing I know far more about it than you, by virtue of me knowing someone who works at TiVo (in software development, but has nothing to do with the TS4K). I don't expect you to know my post history, but I've already addressed this. According to someone who knows more than either of us, literally everything at TiVo loses money (as a department/division) except licensing and the selling of their software / algorithms.



NashGuy said:


> But then TiVo's original plan was to up the price to $70. We'll see if they're able to do that. If they do, and they're only breaking even at $50, then at $70, they're making $20, which is a decent margin.


That will never happen, end of story. The device is a hard sell at $50; if they aren't going to up the price to $70 while competition is minimal, they'd be stupid - I mean, truly dumb - to increase the price when there are other, better options out there.



NashGuy said:


> Google's OEM licensing agreement for Android TV precludes TiVo from forcing usage of the app.


I'm willing to concede that you seem to know more about this than I do. Because devices like Amazon's Fire gadgets all use Android, IIRC, and they're very clearly different. Of course, I'm assuming that's Android and not Android TV, so that may be the difference.



NashGuy said:


> But TiVo's marketing for the device completely centers on the app. That app and the TiVo remote are what differentiate the device from other Android TV devices. So they certainly expect and hope that buyers will use the app, both in order to gain user data and also to serve up data-enabled targeted ads in the TiVo+ content. (Frankly, I think TiVo+ is kinda pathetic but they're hoping to make something of it.)


No doubt. I gleaned as much from the exhaustive survey I took after returning my TS4K. What I cannot fathom is why anyone would use the Stream app or care about useless buttons on a crowded remote when there are better, similar apps out there (like ReelGood) and customers clearly, overwhelmingly prefer simple remotes (and, again, TiVo managed to forget useful buttons like FF and RW when they were cramming too many buttons on it).

So, great, the TS4K is different than other devices...that in no way means it's better. Good job, TiVo, you took existing solutions and made them suck.



NashGuy said:


> I'm curious, what are these specific A/V options that the TS4K lacks but that are present on other Android TV devices?


I no longer have my TS4K to put side-by-side, so you'll have to hope the site search works as well for you as it would for me. My personal pet peeve was that HDR was always on. I get it, a lot of people have older or lower-end TVs that don't support HDR or Dolby Vision, but mine do. And HDR on when HDR should very clearly be off was obnoxious.

I don't recall reading that they fixed this, but I could have missed it. I'm fairly certain the black flashing in Kodi and Plex is still present and that almost certainly has everything do with whatever shenanigans TiVo pulled with video display. If I'm not mistaken (please correct me if I am), the audio output stream menu is still missing certain output options, meaning that those with "nicer" audio systems don't get pass-through like they should.

The amount doesn't matter. The fact is that TiVo - for some reason that is undoubtedly stupid - thought consumers needed fewer choices in their A/V settings. Whatever reason they could stutter out for doing so isn't worth listening to.



NashGuy said:


> From what I've read, Android TV OEMs must themselves code the firmware that binds whatever hardware they pick out to Google's Android TV OS. I don't think TiVo got ready-made working firmware for the TS4K from Amlogic (the SoC manufacturer), SEI Robotics (the device manufacturer) or Google, and then altered it in a way to suck up more user data and, oops, those alterations resulted in some A/V options disappearing. I suspect that TiVo just didn't do a great job in creating their own firmware, hence the initial bugs and instability (and perhaps the reason that it's missing some A/V options).


Unless Android and Android TV operate in wildly different ways, that's only sort of true. I agree that they most likely didn't have some sort of "This works perfectly and only make changes if you want to!" source, but they almost certainly received a source that worked out of the box with Google's own reference development device. Yes, of course, there are modifications that OEMs can make to customize the device. To suggest that they had to actively work on HDR and DV support but thought including the default values for display was too much is silly.

This particular discussion makes it sound like I think the TS4K is a worse device than it actually is. My issue is entirely with TiVo's incompetence. The very fact that you long-term TiVo customers can't even use this (supposedly different) Android TV device to work with your TiVo products is ridiculous. I think you mentioned earlier that you thought this might be a token product to "prove" that they're doing something about streaming. That and extensive data collection are about all I can come up with, because any potential this device had was severely reduced by TiVo's implementation. There's no way they can honestly think they're going to get anywhere with the TS4K.


----------



## mschnebly

rczrider said:


> (really, tell me what possible value there is them removing A/V options)


My guess would be that they are trying to make it as simple and fool proof as possible for the average user.


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## rczrider

mschnebly said:


> My guess would be that they are trying to make it as simple and fool proof as possible for the average user.


Which only makes sense as long as you don't think about it too much.

If you can still turn on debugging, make yourself a developer, and allow for sideloading, that's far from making it "fool proof". Of course, those settings are inherent to Android and maybe they _can't_ disable them. And if that's the case, removing various AV option to make it "simple" seems a lot like worrying about turning off the lights as you walk out of a burning house.


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## mschnebly

rczrider said:


> Which only makes sense as long as you don't think about it too much.
> 
> If you can still turn on debugging, make yourself a developer, and allow for sideloading, that's far from making it "fool proof". Of course, those settings are inherent to Android and maybe they _can't_ disable them. And if that's the case, removing various AV option to make it "simple" seems a lot like worrying about turning off the lights as you walk out of a burning house.


You really think the average buyer knows how to make themselves a developer so they can find all those awesome hidden toys? Like I said, I think they wanted to make it as easy as possible for the "average" buyer. Less complicated when they go into the settings.


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## rczrider

mschnebly said:


> You really think the average buyer knows how to make themselves a developer so they can find all those awesome hidden toys? Like I said, I think they wanted to make it as easy as possible for the "average" buyer. Less complicated when they go into the settings.


I don't really think the average person is going to bother modifying A/V settings unless they have a reason to do it.

TiVo gives them a reason to do it because they broke various A/V functionality for some reason that is still unclear to me.

If what you say is true, they created a self-fulfilling prophecy: "Let's force the user to use whatever A/V _we_ think they should use whether they like or not, so that they won't be tempted to look for the A/V settings!"

Although now that I think about, the average TiVo user is probably of a, uh, "older" demographic and is probably confused by settings. Because let's be honest, the 20-somethings are not "confused" by little things like HDR and PCM. They aren't going to stumble on some setting and set their TS4K on fire. They'll go looking because they know to look.


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## cwoody222

I don’t think “younger” viewers are any more likely to understand or care about things like HDR and PCM.

There are plenty of 25-35 year olds who have absolutely no clue what those mean and don’t care about AV quality. And anyone under 25 is just watching on a laptop or handheld anyway 

Video- and audio-philes know no age range.


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## rczrider

cwoody222 said:


> I don't think "younger" viewers are any more likely to understand or care about things like HDR and PCM.
> 
> *There are plenty of 25-35 year olds who have absolutely no clue what those mean and don't care about AV quality.* And anyone under 25 is just watching on a laptop or handheld anyway
> 
> Video- and audio-philes know no age range.


That particular part of my post was mostly (though not entirely) kidding. You've seen my point: folks either don't care (and aren't going to "stumble" on A/V settings, change them, and then make their TS4K unusable) or they know exactly what they're looking for and will be annoyed (like I and others are) that TiVo removed options for no good reason.

I don't understand any defense of TiVo in this. Sure, _some_ people care about the removal of options more than others, but the point is that leaving things alone would have been fine and removing them clearly isn't fine. Those who care are annoyed and those who don't care don't understand why others are annoyed. Seems to me it's folks who belong to the latter group who made software decisions regarding the TS4K.


----------



## NashGuy

rczrider said:


> I no longer have my TS4K to put side-by-side, so you'll have to hope the site search works as well for you as it would for me. My personal pet peeve was that HDR was always on. I get it, a lot of people have older or lower-end TVs that don't support HDR or Dolby Vision, but mine do. And HDR on when HDR should very clearly be off was obnoxious.
> 
> I don't recall reading that they fixed this, but I could have missed it.


No, they haven't fixed the always-on HDR issue yet. But that's not some kind of A/V setting that is typically present on Android TV devices that TiVo omitted or botched. The norm among Android TV boxes/sticks/dongles is just to have HDR turned on of off systemwide. (That's the way the Apple TV 4K started off too but Apple quickly fixed that with a software update that added the "Dynamic Range Match" option.)

I'm not sure that there are ANY Android TV devices on the market that have a similar systemwide "auto/native" setting to automatically switch between SDR and HDR (and their associated color spaces) depending on the source content. Well, I'm pretty sure Nvidia finally engineered such an option for their expensive Shield TV after it being on the market for a few years, but then I'd read reports of it inconsistently working. And I'm not sure it's ever worked with all the major apps that offer HDR content (Netflix, Prime Video and YouTube).

It shouldn't be THAT difficult to do. Amazon has shown it can be done with AOSP Android and simple hardware, as they implemented it awhile back on the Fire TV Stick 4K. So hopefully TiVo can engineer a similar feature for the TS4K. And hopefully Google has it there from the get-go on their upcoming dongle.


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## rczrider

NashGuy said:


> I'm not sure that there are ANY Android TV devices on the market that have a similar systemwide "auto/native" setting to automatically switch between SDR and HDR (and their associated color spaces) depending on the source content.


My original (not S) Mi Box does this. If you'd like me to hook it up and take a picture of the settings screen showing this, I'll try to remember to do it next time I visit my parents. They don't have a 4K TV, though, let alone one that does HDR.


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## convergent

NashGuy said:


> No, they haven't fixed the always-on HDR issue yet. But that's not some kind of A/V setting that is typically present on Android TV devices that TiVo omitted or botched. The norm among Android TV boxes/sticks/dongles is just to have HDR turned on of off systemwide. (That's the way the Apple TV 4K started off too but Apple quickly fixed that with a software update that added the "Dynamic Range Match" option.)


The HDR situation on Apple TV isn't much better than TS4K. If you can get it to display HDR properly with Disney+ and other services like Netflix, I'd love to see it. You either turn off HDR and matching, or Disney+ looks terrible.


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## NashGuy

convergent said:


> The HDR situation on Apple TV isn't much better than TS4K. If you can get it to display HDR properly with Disney+ and other services like Netflix, I'd love to see it. You either turn off HDR and matching, or Disney+ looks terrible.


I have my default output set to 4K SDR 60Hz with Dynamic Range Matching turned on on my ATV4K. It works fine. If something is available in HDR, it switches over to HDR output for just that video. Otherwise, it outputs everything in SDR. Never had a problem with anything looking bad in any app, including Disney+ (although I only did the one week trial for it, so didn't watch much).


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## BillyClyde

convergent said:


> The HDR situation on Apple TV isn't much better than TS4K. If you can get it to display HDR properly with Disney+ and other services like Netflix, I'd love to see it. You either turn off HDR and matching, or Disney+ looks terrible.


I have tried and been using this new LLDV dolby vision trick using an HDFury and it works awesome with an appletv 4k. It also works with 4k uhd blurays with dv and some players can also convert regular hd and uhd blurays to LLDV too. Results have been great!


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## convergent

NashGuy said:


> I have my default output set to 4K SDR 60Hz with Dynamic Range Matching turned on on my ATV4K. It works fine. If something is available in HDR, it switches over to HDR output for just that video. Otherwise, it outputs everything in SDR. Never had a problem with anything looking bad in any app, including Disney+ (although I only did the one week trial for it, so didn't watch much).


Well when Disney+ switches to Dolby Vision, all colors become very muted. This has been widely reported. It may be dependent on certain TVs, not sure. The only solution is to turn off matching which keeps every SDR.


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## morac

convergent said:


> Well when Disney+ switches to Dolby Vision, all colors become very muted. This has been widely reported. It may be dependent on certain TVs, not sure. The only solution is to turn off matching which keeps every SDR.


I don't think that has anything to do with Disney+ or Dolby Vision. I've found on my Apple TV with my Sony TV that a lot of HDR content is dark and drab, especially Marvel movies. Doesn't matter if I use DV or HDR10.

It looks slightly better on the apps on my TV itself, but I think that has more to do with the display settings on the TV.

I'm also not sure that's technically an "issue". HDR doesn't mean bright colors, it just means a wider range of colors. The content may be mastered to look drab. In other words that's the director's vision, even if people think it looks bad.

HDR tends to look darker in general because TV's don't correct the brightness for HDR like they do for SDR. There's no TV out there currently that can display the full range of brightness for Dolby Vision. Most are no where near close. I have a high end Sony and it's only capable of 1500 nits. Many TV's don't even get to half of that. Dolby Visions goes up to 10,000.

On a side note, a number of shows that Disney+ claims are in HDR, like the Mandalorian, actually aren't. They are simply SDR sent as HDR.


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## convergent

morac said:


> I don't think that has anything to do with Disney+ or Dolby Vision. I've found on my Apple TV with my Sony TV that a lot of HDR content is dark and drab, especially Marvel movies. Doesn't matter if I use DV or HDR10.
> 
> It looks slightly better on the apps on my TV itself, but I think that has more to do with the display settings on the TV.
> 
> I'm also not sure that's technically an "issue". HDR doesn't mean bright colors, it just means a wider range of colors. The content may be mastered to look drab. In other words that's the director's vision, even if people think it looks bad.
> 
> HDR tends to look darker in general because TV's don't correct the brightness for HDR like they do for SDR. There's no TV out there currently that can display the full range of brightness for Dolby Vision. Most are no where near close. I have a high end Sony and it's only capable of 1500 nits. Many TV's don't even get to half of that. Dolby Visions goes up to 10,000.
> 
> On a side note, a number of shows that Disney+ claims are in HDR, like the Mandalorian, actually aren't. They are simply SDR sent as HDR.


I understand everything you are saying. Let me clarify. The Disney+ content is crap in Dolby Vision via Apple TV 4K HDR. Its not just that the colors are desaturated, the colors are also wrong. It looks terrible. You can use Toy Story 3 as a test. With all the same settings, Neflix content in Dolby Vision looks amazing. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I know what I see and its not acceptable. My point is, that you can not configure the Apple TV 4K so that HDR content "just works" across apps, so HDR in general is not just messed up on the Tivo Stream 4K.


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## BillyClyde

convergent said:


> I understand everything you are saying. Let me clarify. The Disney+ content is crap in Dolby Vision via Apple TV 4K HDR. Its not just that the colors are desaturated, the colors are also wrong. It looks terrible. You can use Toy Story 3 as a test. With all the same settings, Neflix content in Dolby Vision looks amazing. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I know what I see and its not acceptable. *My point is, that you can not configure the Apple TV 4K so that HDR content "just works" across apps, so HDR in general is not just messed up on the Tivo Stream 4K.*


Have you tried this method I mentioned here, a few posts up?:
TiVo Launches $50 Streaming Video Player to Take On Apple TV, Roku, Amazon Fire TV

I'm not sure if it'll fix your issue, but it looks pretty amazing on my AppleTV 4K. You do need certain HDFury devices to get it working though, so not sure if you're willing to include the extra costs if you don't have one already.


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## NashGuy

convergent said:


> Well when Disney+ switches to Dolby Vision, all colors become very muted. This has been widely reported. It may be dependent on certain TVs, not sure. The only solution is to turn off matching which keeps every SDR.


Hmm. Well, if there's a problem there, maybe it's on Disney. I've seen no problems with quite a lot of DV and HDR10 content I've played on my LG OLED from my Apple TV 4K from Netflix, Prime Video, Apple and Showtime.


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## convergent

BillyClyde said:


> Have you tried this method I mentioned here, a few posts up?:
> TiVo Launches $50 Streaming Video Player to Take On Apple TV, Roku, Amazon Fire TV
> 
> I'm not sure if it'll fix your issue, but it looks pretty amazing on my AppleTV 4K. You do need certain HDFury devices to get it working though, so not sure if you're willing to include the extra costs if you don't have one already.


You will need to expand a bit on it because I didn't fully understand it and not wanting to weed around in AVSforums trying to figure it out. Which HDFury device do you have... looks like they run up to $400. Is this something you just insert between the ATV4K and the TV and it does its thing, or do you have to be changing things when switching content? I don't mind spending a few bucks to try and get better 4K HDR out of my gear, but not $400.


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## BillyClyde

convergent said:


> You will need to expand a bit on it because I didn't fully understand it and not wanting to weed around in AVSforums trying to figure it out. Which HDFury device do you have... looks like they run up to $400. Is this something you just insert between the ATV4K and the TV and it does its thing, or do you have to be changing things when switching content? I don't mind spending a few bucks to try and get better 4K HDR out of my gear, but not $400.


Oh sorry. Here is a good link. There is another link in the first post to the original findings initially posted on AV Forums. There's great info in both.

Dolby Vision, including HDR10 conversion w/ DTM on...

The best HDFury to use is the Vertex2, but it works with the Vertex1, Integral, Linker and the upcoming Arcana, which sounds like it'll be the best most affordable option. The Vertex2 allows more customization so you can input display parameters which Dolby Vision relies on, so I think it's worth it.


----------



## rczrider

Google Sabrina possibly launching September 30 with a $59 price tag: Google 'Sabrina' Android TV dongle price could be under $50 - 9to5Google

That's from internal inventory systems at Target and Walmart; Home Depot had it in their system for $50.

If this is true, the TS4K is officially dead on October 1. It's not worth saving $10 for buggy firmware and a garbage remote.


----------



## Alex_7

If it allows sideloading apps I'll consider it


----------



## rczrider

Alex_7 said:


> If it allows sideloading apps I'll consider it


It's Android, so it will.


----------



## BillyClyde

rczrider said:


> If this is true, the TS4K is officially dead on October 1. It's not worth saving $10 for buggy firmware and a garbage remote.


How do you know for certain the Sabrina won't have "buggy firmware and a garbage remote", or other issues?


----------



## siratfus

FWIW... the Tivo Stream 4k and Youtube TV is buttery smooth. I'm not talking about the integration because it's still only Sling TV. I'm just talking about using the Youtube TV app on the Tivo stick. There is a little lag using youtube tv on my fire stick, but on the Tivo stick, the navigating, scrolling, selecting, etc., everything is instant. I'm testing out living without tivo and traditional cable tv, and my main concern was the channel surfing and navigation. It is actually even smoother than navigating my Tivo Roamio. But in general, navigating the Tivo stick is so much better than navigating the fire stick which constantly gets stuck or lag. Like you'd be pushing the directional pad down 3 times, and you see no reaction, then all of a sudden it reacts and moves you down 3 times when you no longer want to move. LOL! Bring on Google Sabrina, I will try them all!


----------



## rczrider

BillyClyde said:


> How do you know for certain the Sabrina won't have "buggy firmware and a garbage remote", or other issues?


I don't, of course. But I'm guessing - and it's really just a guess here - that the folks who made Android TV might know a little more about what they're doing than, say, a dying company making a last-ditch effort to stay relevant by purchasing off-the-shelf hardware and using summer interns (apparently) to write the firmware.

I could be wrong. Google is a far cry from perfect. But they're also in a totally different league than TiVo. They're going up against the likes of Amazon and Roku. If the latest TiVo survey is any indication, most folks have forgotten TiVo is even a company anymore. And the ones who knew the name thought they only made expensive and irrelevant DVRs.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

Summer interns, lol.


rczrider said:


> If the latest TiVo survey is any indication,


What survey? Sounds interesting.


----------



## BillyClyde

rczrider said:


> I don't, of course. But I'm guessing - and it's really just a guess here - that the folks who made Android TV might know a little more about what they're doing than, say, a dying company making a last-ditch effort to stay relevant by purchasing off-the-shelf hardware and using summer interns (apparently) to write the firmware.
> 
> I could be wrong. Google is a far cry from perfect. But they're also in a totally different league than TiVo. They're going up against the likes of Amazon and Roku. If the latest TiVo survey is any indication, most folks have forgotten TiVo is even a company anymore. And the ones who knew the name thought they only made expensive and irrelevant DVRs.


Isn't the Sabrina based on the same "off-the-shelf hardware" as the TS4K?

If Google is the expert because they invented Android, then why haven't they built a better machine for Android than nVidia?


----------



## aaronwt

BillyClyde said:


> Isn't the Sabrina based on the same "off-the-shelf hardware" as the TS4K?
> 
> If Google is the expert because they invented Android, then why haven't they built a better machine for Android than nVidia?


The Google design works fine. And the TiVo stream would work just as fine if they had not mucked with it.

I was very happy with the speeds of the TiVo stream 4K. But decisons like always on HDR10 or Dolby Vision was a non starter for me.

And the 2019 Nvidia Shiled has gotten better with the recent update. But it is three times as much as the TiVo stream 4K. But like like all streamers it still has issues. Like the Shield has no HDR with YouTube. Or missing apps like Apple TV+. But I still like any Android streamer better than my ATV 4K boxes.

Sent from my Galaxy S10


----------



## BillyClyde

aaronwt said:


> . But decisons like always on HDR10 or Dolby Vision was a non starter for me.


To which I disagree with wholeheartedly, if you make sure everything is set right on your display.

But that's your decision and a discussion for another time.


----------



## mdavej

BillyClyde said:


> To which I disagree with wholeheartedly, if you make sure everything is set right on your display.
> 
> But that's your decision and a discussion for another time.


You can't undo HDR by changing display settings.


----------



## aaronwt

BillyClyde said:


> To which I disagree with wholeheartedly, if you make sure everything is set right on your display.
> 
> But that's your decision and a discussion for another time.


You make sure things are set right for actual HDR10 and DV content. But SDR content that is in HDR won't look like its supposed to.

Sent from my Tab A 8.0


----------



## BillyClyde

mdavej said:


> You can't undo HDR by changing display settings.


I never said you undo it.



aaronwt said:


> You make sure things are set right for actual HDR10 and DV content. But SDR content that is in HDR won't look like its supposed to.
> 
> Sent from my Tab A 8.0


Not if the display does what it's supposed to and maps it correctly. It's on your display and what it does with the metadata it receives, not the TS4K.


----------



## mdavej

BillyClyde said:


> Not if the display does what it's supposed to and maps it correctly. It's on your display and what it does with the metadata it receives, not the TS4K.


Why do you keep posting wrong information about this forced HDR bug? The TS4K takes SDR content and maps it onto an HDR color space. It's this mapping in the TS4K that gives all the colors wrong values. When your display device gets this wrong data that's presented as HDR, it says, "ahh, some HDR, I'll pass it straight through boss", not knowing it came from an SDR source. You can indeed enable HDR tone mapping or mess with your color/brightness/contrast to mask the problem. But that's just lipstick on a pig. Please stop spreading misinformation.


----------



## bradleys

I am new to the cord cutting world and bought both an Apple TV and a TS4K to decide which experience would be best for me and I definitely prefer the TS4K.

The TiVo remote is a significantly better experience than the Apple remote, navigating to and through the channel guide is a better experience and selecting what to record is better integrated.

I will likely return the Apple TV and buy two more TS4Ks


----------



## brotony

bradleys said:


> I am new to the cord cutting world and bought both an Apple TV and a TS4K to decide which experience would be best for me and I definitely prefer the TS4K.
> 
> The TiVo remote is a significantly better experience than the Apple remote, navigating to and through the channel guide is a better experience and selecting what to record is better integrated.
> 
> I will likely return the Apple TV and buy two more TS4Ks


Welcome to the world of streaming. I'd wait if I could before buying another streaming device. Refer to the link in post # 2060 (scroll up). Next generation compatibility is rumored for the Sabrina since the developer edition from last year had HDMI 2.1 compatibility.

The Apple TV 4K is a good streamer but that remote has been excused for too long. There's just no excuse for not having the directional pad out of the box; taps are supposed to work as nav pad but consistency is iffy. Even if Apple wanted to keep the niche touchpad; they should have added a no fuss nav pad, for sanity sake. There's alternative remotes available for it though; I use Logitech Harmony hub and remote for nearly full function with a Harmony remote. One for All may be the cheapest alternative for those that also want to control volume with on their AVR. But since some apps are still only built on the Siri remote touchpad, I'm stuck with the Siri remote on Fubo TV if I want thumbnail previews for skipping ads.

But despite having 3 Apple TV 4K devices and Roku Ultra and Fire TV 4K Stick, I'm interested in seeing what the Google Sabrina has to offer. Hopefully it's got a sensible remote. I watched the TiVo 4K Stream with interest at release but decided to pass with the forced HDR not being fixed (yet) and knowing the Sabrina was rumored to be arriving at some point. The TiVo streamer had a limited window to please the masses but I'm thinking with baked in OS features and added future proofing, the Sabrina is the better device of the two. For what it's worth, I'm hesitant to preorder but more in a position to say I'll wait until I'm wowed, then buy. Bugs. Bugs. Bugs. Dislike them so much.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## BillyClyde

mdavej said:


> Why do you keep posting wrong information about this forced HDR bug? The TS4K takes SDR content and maps it onto an HDR color space. It's this mapping in the TS4K that gives all the colors wrong values. When your display device gets this wrong data that's presented as HDR, it says, "ahh, some HDR, I'll pass it straight through boss", not knowing it came from an SDR source. You can indeed enable HDR tone mapping or mess with your color/brightness/contrast to mask the problem. But that's just lipstick on a pig. Please stop spreading misinformation.


This is not true. You need to learn about how rec709 can be and IS mapped into a BT2020 container, which is what is happening here.

I've said it before. UHD Blurays do this ALL THE TIME by mapping a DCI-P3 color space into the very same BT2020 container! This is NO different.

If it is mapped properly AND your display does what it's supposed to do by going into its HDR BT2020 mode, then it ALL will appear correct, period! I've been watching this way with no special hoop jumping at all.

Have you ever once done a calibration with CalMAN (or similar) where in the process it takes you through mapping ALL the color spaces within that BT2020 color gamut? Why pray tell do you think that is sir?

The only misinformation is coming from your side.


----------



## mdavej

I give up


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

The average consumer would have given up long ago. The most important thing about the above conversation is that the average consumer can't or won't follow the above conversation. They want to plug a device in and have it work. Fire TV and friends do that for the most part, no Geek Squad required.


----------



## BillyClyde

To be clear, I never said they shouldn’t have given the consumer the choice to turn it off or select which mode they wanted. All I’m saying is, the mapping is correct for what it actually does. At that point it’s up to your display to treat the signal the way it’s supposed to.


----------



## 241705

I know the opinions here are mixed and also that earlier in this thread I asked if Roku was a better choice, but I like the idea of a more open system and I'm an Android user so I decided what the heck: I just ordered two TS4Ks and an HDHomeRun OTA tuner. It seems like the TS4K is getting better. Also, I've read posts here about ChannelsDVR (I think many from @Pokemon_Dad?), I've watched many videos about the TS4K and Android TV and that has me interested in the possibilities. I'm more interested in AndroidTV than I am in using the TiVo interface at this point. I figured I'd try out some options over the next 30 days and see if it works well enough for OTA viewing and recording. In any case, streaming apps (and more of them!) that actually launch will be a huge improvement! If all goes as I hope, my current TiVo hardware will be headed to eBay.


----------



## wco81

I like to stream HBO and Showtime because the episodes are available at East Coast time while I'm out on the West Coast.

PQ is better than Comcast Xfiniity HBO and Showtime channels, which are low bitrate 720p.

Also have Amazon Prime and Hulu but don't watch those as much.

But won't give up my Tivo for streaming because streaming doesn't have trick play modes like skipping commercials or even 30 second skips, which are very useful.


----------



## mdavej

Looks like Sling now has it's own version of the Recast, a quad tuner, 1TB OTA DVR add-on to their Sling TV service. Would be a nice addition to the TS4K I think, especially for former OTA Tivo users.
Sling TV Launches AirTV Anywhere DVR | Cord Cutters News


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

mdavej said:


> Looks like Sling now has it's own version of the Recast, a quad tuner, 1TB OTA DVR add-on to their Sling TV service. Would be a nice addition to the TS4K I think, especially for former OTA Tivo users.
> Sling TV Launches AirTV Anywhere DVR | Cord Cutters News


That's a nicely integrated package, possibly everything the Stream 4K should have been. Looking forward to reviews.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

Huh, haven't seen this posted here yet: TiVo Stream 4K Adds Locast in Available Markets | Cord Cutters News


----------



## Alex_7

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Huh, haven't seen this posted here yet: TiVo Stream 4K Adds Locast in Available Markets | Cord Cutters News





Alex_7 said:


> new updates from a reddit post:
> 
> *Live TV from Pluto TV and Locast is now on Stream 4K, plus firmware fixes!*
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This morning, the TiVo team enabled Pluto TV Linear (live TV) and Locast as 2 more fully integrated content providers on the Stream 4K platform! You can now find all your favorite Pluto TV and Locast live channels in the Stream experience.
> 
> For those users who haven't downloaded the Pluto TV or Locast apps yet, you can install both from the Play Store to do this please follow the steps below and enable it in your TiVo Stream app:
> _
> 
> _Go to Android TV home -> Apps -> Get More Apps, search for and download Pluto TV_
> _Within the TiVo Stream app, you can select Pluto TV from My Streaming Services by going to TiVo Stream -> Settings -> My Streaming Services and selecting Pluto TV and/or Locast_
> _When first launching the Pluto TV or Locast app, you may be required to sign in or register, please log in as needed_
> _We also rolled out an updated firmware to 10% of the population that includes all the fixes from last month as well as fixes for the HDHomeRun/Channels DVR issues and Developer options issues. EDIT: the build number for this new firmware is v4896 Looking forward to any feedback you all have._


----------



## cwoody222

mdavej said:


> Looks like Sling now has it's own version of the Recast, a quad tuner, 1TB OTA DVR add-on to their Sling TV service. Would be a nice addition to the TS4K I think, especially for former OTA Tivo users.
> Sling TV Launches AirTV Anywhere DVR | Cord Cutters News


Is this basically just like the Recast?

Plug in your antenna anywhere in the house, pick up your channels and recordings on the app on a variety of devices?


----------



## BillyClyde

mdavej said:


> Looks like Sling now has it's own version of the Recast, a quad tuner, 1TB OTA DVR add-on to their Sling TV service. Would be a nice addition to the TS4K I think, especially for former OTA Tivo users.
> Sling TV Launches AirTV Anywhere DVR | Cord Cutters News


Any word on whether this AirTV device will integrate into the TiVo Stream 4K's SlingTV guide, or will it be like the old ones where the local OTA channels won't integrate and you have to use the actual SlingTV app instead?


----------



## blacknoi

I do dig the integration of locast with the Tivo Stream 4k guide, all for free (assuming you live in one of the markets compatible... I'm in the NYC area so I see it).

Not paying for sling, the Stream's "guide" was just useless (to me) tivo+ content. Now it kind of reminds me of my current tivo (in that the guide actually represents something I want to watch, in a grid format).

Quality is grainy as heck and the nag for the $5/month donation would not make this my primary way to receive locals. But in a pinch, its a nice additional option as a back up.


----------



## mdavej

BillyClyde said:


> Any word on whether this AirTV device will integrate into the TiVo Stream 4K's SlingTV guide, or will it be like the old ones where the local OTA channels won't integrate and you have to use the actual SlingTV app instead?


No idea. But I suspect you'll have to use the SlingTV app.


----------



## mdavej

cwoody222 said:


> Is this basically just like the Recast?
> 
> Plug in your antenna anywhere in the house, pick up your channels and recordings on the app on a variety of devices?


Exactly. But unlike Recast, this is platform agnostic, as far as I can tell. Recast only works on Fire TV and mobile apps.


----------



## 241705

blackngold75 said:


> I know the opinions here are mixed and also that earlier in this thread I asked if Roku was a better choice, but I like the idea of a more open system and I'm an Android user so I decided what the heck: I just ordered two TS4Ks and an HDHomeRun OTA tuner.


The TS4Ks and HDHomeRun showed up yesterday. I spent a few hours last night and I really like this setup. There's a few warts here and there, but I think if I disable the TiVo app and remap some buttons, this is a really usable solution for me. Also tried out Channels DVR - really good and it works with my existing NAS! Still haven't tried out the HDHomeRun DVR software, but I'll give it a shot.

The warts:

unable to get the remote to control volume on my AVR (I think I saw instructions for a workaround)
No surround sound on my AVR for Netflix & Prime - what's the minimum I need: DD+? Darn, I might have to replace my 10-year-old receiver. ;-)
TiVo app would be awesome if it could integrate ChannelsDVR, and if I could choose what gets integrated into that app. As it is, not worth much to me.
Need to remap buttons so the TiVo button does something useful


----------



## blacknoi

blackngold75 said:


> Need to remap buttons so the TiVo button does something useful


Oh where, oh where have my dedicated pause/rew/ff buttons gone, oh where, oh where can they be?


----------



## Jim1348

rczrider said:


> Google Sabrina possibly launching September 30 with a $59 price tag: Google 'Sabrina' Android TV dongle price could be under $50 - 9to5Google
> 
> That's from internal inventory systems at Target and Walmart; Home Depot had it in their system for $50.
> 
> If this is true, the TS4K is officially dead on October 1. It's not worth saving $10 for buggy firmware and a garbage remote.


I may end up buying one of these, too.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

blackngold75 said:


> Need to remap buttons so the TiVo button does something useful


You've probably already seen this, but there's a long thread on that topic over on the Channels Community: https://community.getchannels.com/t/tivo-stream-4k-button-mapper-for-remote/22719

Not sure exactly what to do about the other issues, but they seem solvable. I am sure after you try the HDHR DVR UI, you'll run screaming back to Channels DVR, lol.


----------



## mdavej

blackngold75 said:


> Still haven't tried out the HDHomeRun DVR software, but I'll give it a shot.





Pokemon_Dad said:


> I am sure after you try the HDHR DVR UI, you'll run screaming back to Channels DVR, lol.


Yeah, you should definitely skip the HDHomeRun DVR. I can't even find the words to describe how bad it is.


----------



## 241705

After playing around some more with Channels, I'm pretty sure they're going to get my money for the first year of service. And the TS4K has been solid so far

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## BillyClyde

mdavej said:


> Why do you keep posting wrong information about this forced HDR bug? The TS4K takes SDR content and maps it onto an HDR color space. It's this mapping in the TS4K that gives all the colors wrong values. When your display device gets this wrong data that's presented as HDR, it says, "ahh, some HDR, I'll pass it straight through boss", not knowing it came from an SDR source. You can indeed enable HDR tone mapping or mess with your color/brightness/contrast to mask the problem. But that's just lipstick on a pig. Please stop spreading misinformation.





BillyClyde said:


> This is not true. You need to learn about how rec709 can be and IS mapped into a BT2020 container, which is what is happening here.
> 
> I've said it before. UHD Blurays do this ALL THE TIME by mapping a DCI-P3 color space into the very same BT2020 container! This is NO different.
> 
> If it is mapped properly AND your display does what it's supposed to do by going into its HDR BT2020 mode, then it ALL will appear correct, period! I've been watching this way with no special hoop jumping at all.
> 
> Have you ever once done a calibration with CalMAN (or similar) where in the process it takes you through mapping ALL the color spaces within that BT2020 color gamut? Why pray tell do you think that is sir?
> 
> The only misinformation is coming from your side.





mdavej said:


> I give up





BillyClyde said:


> To be clear, I never said they shouldn't have given the consumer the choice to turn it off or select which mode they wanted. All I'm saying is, the mapping is correct for what it actually does. At that point it's up to your display to treat the signal the way it's supposed to.


Just to clear this up even further, here are posts from AVS Forum discussing this very thing. The "Kris" being referred to is "Kris Deering", ISF Calibrator extraordaire and expert in these matters. Perhaps if you don't believe me, you'll believe him and the actual facts?



MOberhardt said:


> Yes, but that means you need to switch a preset for HDR or SDR. Kris said he was able to set it up so you didn't have to but it wasn't affected by the botched HDR auto gamma. So not switching.





MDesigns said:


> 709 content fits nicely in 2020 colorspace and Lumagen or madVR can be setup to do that conversion. No switching then.


What it sounds like to me is that maybe the TS4K isn't sending out proper HDR metadata to kick some displays into their proper HDR modes so it displays correctly, or maybe the display just ignores it for whatever reason, idk?

I'm now using an HDFury for the LLDV mod, so that must be treating it properly with its EDID and I'm just not seeing what you're seeing, because it looks amazing here on my displays and projector.


----------



## NashGuy

brotony said:


> I'm interested in seeing what the Google Sabrina has to offer. Hopefully it's got a sensible remote.











source: Exclusive: This is Google's Android TV dongle, remote, and new UI


----------



## BillyClyde

NashGuy said:


> View attachment 52334
> 
> source: Exclusive: This is Google's Android TV dongle, remote, and new UI


Lame remote. TiVo's is much more functional and better.


----------



## aaronwt

I'll use a Harmony remote with it. Just like I would have with the TS4K if I had not returned them.

Sent from my Nexus 7(32GB)


----------



## NashGuy

BillyClyde said:


> Lame remote. TiVo's is much more functional and better.


I'd say that the TS4K remote is definitely better for traditional channel-based TV but, for the kind of app-based on-demand viewing that constitutes the majority of usage on these kinds of devices, simpler remotes are better. I mean, it's not a coincidence that Roku, Fire TV, Apple TV and most Android TV devices ship with those simpler remotes. Those companies, I'm sure, have looked into the preferences and usage patterns of their target market.


----------



## mrizzo80

I like the TS4k remote. One of the reasons is quick access to various services with ButtonMapper overriding some defaults. 

Netflix —> Netflix
Guide —> YTTV (Live wouldn’t work)
TiVo 2x —> YouTube
TiVo 1x —> ReelGood


----------



## trip1eX

Looks like an iPod click wheel on the google remote


----------



## Alex_7

I have no use for all the number buttons on the remote. They could’ve used that space for proper pause/play FF RW buttons and app shortcuts buttons. 
But I did end up using a few number buttons as remapped buttons.


----------



## NashGuy

trip1eX said:


> Looks like an iPod click wheel on the google remote


I thought the same thing. Or maybe like the circular trackpad wheel that debuted with 3rd gen iPod (which was the first one I bought). Perhaps it's like a combination of both: clickable in four directions, like a traditional D-button, but can be touch-scrolled either clockwise or counterclockwise to quickly scrub forward or backward through a playback timeline (or right and left through a horizontal menu).

If so, that might combine the best elements of the Apple TV remote, with its useful-yet-frustrating trackpad, and a typical streaming remote.

A potential concern I have, based on that photo I posted, is how the remote might raise or lower the volume. It clearly has a mute button but I don't see vol up/down. Odd. Maybe they're on the side or bottom of the remote, not viewable in the photo.


----------



## BillyClyde

NashGuy said:


> I'd say that the TS4K remote is definitely better for traditional channel-based TV but, for the kind of app-based on-demand viewing that constitutes the majority of usage on these kinds of devices, simpler remotes are better. I mean, it's not a coincidence that Roku, Fire TV, Apple TV and most Android TV devices ship with those simpler remotes. Those companies, I'm sure, have looked into the preferences and usage patterns of their target market.





Alex_7 said:


> I have no use for all the number buttons on the remote. They could've used that space for proper pause/play FF RW buttons and app shortcuts buttons.
> But I did end up using a few number buttons as remapped buttons.


But those simpler remotes have so much open unused space on them. What's the issue with just putting other buttons on them like numbers, play/pause, etc. to make life easier for those that use cable type replacement apps where you can punch in direct channel numbers? It wouldn't take away from what's already there towards the top of the remotes, nor it's functionality.

Maybe these streamer hardware manufacturers can just design and market an alternate remote with all the normal extra buttons, a la' a cable/satellite type remote for those that use their streamer device in that fashion? This could actually be another revenue source for them.


----------



## trip1eX

BillyClyde said:


> But those simpler remotes have so much open unused space on them. What's the issue with just putting other buttons on them like numbers, play/pause, etc. to make life easier for those that use cable type replacement apps where you can punch in direct channel numbers? It wouldn't take away from what's already there towards the top of the remotes, nor it's functionality.
> 
> Maybe these streamer hardware manufacturers can just design and market an alternate remote with all the normal extra buttons, a la' a cable/satellite type remote for those that use their streamer device in that fashion? This could actually be another revenue source for them.


Why include a remote that few are likely to make use of? Apple addresses this part of the market by having a pretty strong 3rd party remote config option. Not sure about the other guys.

Tv is moving towards on-demand streaming and not towards a legacy cabletv clone over the internet so making a big remote for the latter is not the future.

The big remote is a niche market for a smaller company.

*Harmony remotes are fading in relevance as streaming takes over, says Logitech CEO*

It shows you that the market for the bigger remote isn't what it was. Even on Tivo I never used the number buttons at least not in the last 5-10 years of owning a Tivo. I watched recordings 99% of the time. The numbers were shortcut buttons for me but I used them so rarely that I would forget which one was which. The reality was a simple remote like the ATV remote included all the functionality that I was using on the Tivo remote.


----------



## trip1eX

NashGuy said:


> I thought the same thing. Or maybe like the circular trackpad wheel that debuted with 3rd gen iPod (which was the first one I bought). Perhaps it's like a combination of both: clickable in four directions, like a traditional D-button, but can be touch-scrolled either clockwise or counterclockwise to quickly scrub forward or backward through a playback timeline (or right and left through a horizontal menu).
> 
> If so, that might combine the best elements of the Apple TV remote, with its useful-yet-frustrating trackpad, and a typical streaming remote.
> 
> A potential concern I have, based on that photo I posted, is how the remote might raise or lower the volume. It clearly has a mute button but I don't see vol up/down. Odd. Maybe they're on the side or bottom of the remote, not viewable in the photo.


Yeah looks like a circle trackpad plus the dpad and center button. It's a good idea on paper at least. as far as volume goes, i haven't seen a pic of the whole remote. I just assume they got something they are comfortable with because it's a frequently used function.

IF the pics I've seen show every button then they either are going to use voice for volume, or use the circlepad to raise/lower volume with some sort of constraint in place so it isn't accidentally activated in normal use.


----------



## NashGuy

trip1eX said:


> The big remote is a niche market for a smaller company.


Interesting article. I'd say the bigger underlying point there with Logitech is the trend toward having all your entertainment in a single device, and therefore having no need for a universal remote.

I used to love my Logitech Harmony remote but when I got an Apple TV 4K, using it for both streaming and OTA TV, I had little use for the Harmony any more. The ATV4K, my TV and my receiver all support HDMI-CEC, and the ATV4K remote controls the receiver's volume. I do still have a Bluray player, for which I have to use a separate remote, but I couldn't tell you how long it's been since the last time I watched a disc. Physical media is dying.

There will still be demand for specialized video game consoles like Xbox and PlayStation for awhile longer. But at some point, you have to figure all that will move to the cloud and just exist as an app on the major platforms operated by Google, Apple, Amazon and Roku.


----------



## Jeeters

While I still like my Roamios' peanut remote, I'm also a big fan of the 'simpler' remotes that have become popular. That started last summer when I bought a new Samsung TV that came with one of their "smart remotes". I was apprehensive when I first saw it, but it does everything I need it to do quickly. I can even control (mostly) the TiVo with it, but don't usually bother, since the TiVo reacts sluggishly to it.
I watch a DVD/Blu-Ray once or twice a month, and every time I have to use the player's remote that has a full array of buttons for something, I'm like, "ugh".


----------



## mrizzo80

I temporarily switched back to FireTV yesterday to watch NFL games. I noticed the YT app on that platform updated a few days ago and the scrub bar is now the default when you try to fast forward or rewind. This is much better than the old approach. Hopefully Google brings this to Android TV soon.


----------



## aaronwt

I know the regular Youtube app changed a few days ago on my Shield TV. And comes up with the Scrub bar when you rewind/ff.

EDIT: It looks like my FireTV4K stickin this room still has the old youtube app. Where the scrub bar is not the default. The new one on my Shield TVs is better now.
So far my Shield TVs are the only device I've seen the new Youtube app.


----------



## aaronwt

NashGuy said:


> Interesting article. I'd say the bigger underlying point there with Logitech is the trend toward having all your entertainment in a single device, and therefore having no need for a universal remote.
> 
> I used to love my Logitech Harmony remote but when I got an Apple TV 4K, using it for both streaming and OTA TV, I had little use for the Harmony any more. The ATV4K, my TV and my receiver all support HDMI-CEC, and the ATV4K remote controls the receiver's volume. I do still have a Bluray player, for which I have to use a separate remote, but I couldn't tell you how long it's been since the last time I watched a disc. Physical media is dying.
> 
> There will still be demand for specialized video game consoles like Xbox and PlayStation for awhile longer. But at some point, you have to figure all that will move to the cloud and just exist as an app on the major platforms operated by Google, Apple, Amazon and Roku.


The ATV 4K remote is a perfect example of why I need a Harmony remote. Since the ATV remote is so terrible(The older Shield TV remote is almost as bad). Not to mention with 15+ devices in each of my UHD setups, it makes switching TV and receiver inputs as well as HDMI switches much easier. Since I have several five port HDMI switches in each setup.

The Harmony remotes change everything to the correct inputs and turns device on and off. Without it I would need to juggle a bunch of remotes. And HDMI-CEC can't come close to working with that many devices. Once you get to four or five or six devices trying to use HDMI-CEC weird things start happening. So I only have it turned on with a few devices.


----------



## 241705

15+ devices! We're definitely at opposite ends of the spectrum - as I'm trying to get to as few devices as possible, and the TS4K remote seems to work pretty well for that - controls the TS4K, TV and soundbar "automagically". I still have a separate BD player but like @Jeeters said, we hardly use physical media any more.


----------



## mdavej

blackngold75 said:


> 15+ devices! We're definitely at opposite ends of the spectrum - as I'm trying to get to as few devices as possible, and the TS4K remote seems to work pretty well for that - controls the TS4K, TV and soundbar "automagically". I still have a separate BD player but like @Jeeters said, we hardly use physical media any more.


Same here. I had 15+ devices for years that required complex programming on a universal remote. Today I have 2 devices - a smart TV and an AVR, both of which are controlled by the TV remote.


----------



## warrenn

I don't like using alternate TV services like PlutoTV with my Roku remote. There needs to be more buttons for the experience to be smooth. I want to be bring up the guide, move through the guide a page at a time, get info about a show, jump to a certain channel number, etc. The limited number of buttons on the Roku remote makes all this kind of stuff clunky. It's not bad if I'm only watching the service once in a while, but it's a big hassle if I'm trying to watch it a lot. One of the reasons I don't watch services like PlutoTV is because of these hassles in interacting with the service.


----------



## Alex_7

15 devices?! Holy shi..


----------



## mdavej

Alex_7 said:


> 15 devices?! Holy shi..


I often ask those with lots of devices in AV forums what exactly are these devices, usually in the context of finding an appropriate universal remote. The vast majority are obsolete devices that should have been removed a long time ago - VCR, laser disc, tape deck, CD player, DVD player, DVD recorder, multiple streaming devices that all do EXACTLY the same thing (Apple, Roku, Fire, Chromecast), obsolete gaming systems, etc. Just because you still have an obsolete or redundant device doesn't mean you have to continue using it forever.

If you have a lot of devices and are looking to simplify, ask yourself, have I used that device in the past 3 months. If you haven't, at least disconnect it and stop worrying about including it in your universal remote activities.

My smart TV handles all my streaming apps, recording, streaming clients, music apps. My AVR handles the sound. That's all I need.


----------



## xberk

>>My smart TV handles all my streaming apps, recording, streaming clients, music apps.

Recording? What kind of TV do you have?


----------



## BillyClyde

warrenn said:


> I don't like using alternate TV services like PlutoTV with my Roku remote. There needs to be more buttons for the experience to be smooth. I want to be bring up the guide, move through the guide a page at a time, get info about a show, jump to a certain channel number, etc. The limited number of buttons on the Roku remote makes all this kind of stuff clunky. It's not bad if I'm only watching the service once in a while, but it's a big hassle if I'm trying to watch it a lot. One of the reasons I don't watch services like PlutoTV is because of these hassles in interacting with the service.


Ditto!


----------



## mdavej

xberk said:


> >>My smart TV handles all my streaming apps, recording, streaming clients, music apps.
> 
> Recording? What kind of TV do you have?


Fire TV edition TV, basically a TV running Fire TV OS without needing to plug in a stick. Currently using 2 DVRs on it - Recast (local tuners and HDD) and Youtube TV (cloud). Recast hangs off the network and has no remote control requirements other than what's done through the app on the TV. The TVs own built in tuner actually has a live buffer of about half an hour, but I rarely use it.


----------



## aaronwt

mdavej said:


> I often ask those with lots of devices in AV forums what exactly are these devices, usually in the context of finding an appropriate universal remote. The vast majority are obsolete devices that should have been removed a long time ago - VCR, laser disc, tape deck, CD player, DVD player, DVD recorder, multiple streaming devices that all do EXACTLY the same thing (Apple, Roku, Fire, Chromecast), obsolete gaming systems, etc. Just because you still have an obsolete or redundant device doesn't mean you have to continue using it forever.
> 
> If you have a lot of devices and are looking to simplify, ask yourself, have I used that device in the past 3 months. If you haven't, at least disconnect it and stop worrying about including it in your universal remote activities.
> 
> My smart TV handles all my streaming apps, recording, streaming clients, music apps. My AVR handles the sound. That's all I need.


Well for me, in each my two UHD setups, I have an ATV4K, a Roku Ultra or Roku STream 4K, FireTv 4K stick, two Shield TVs(one 2017 and one 2019) , XB1, PS4, and two TiVos in each setup. I use all those devices daily or weekly(well the 2017 Shield TVs really need to be removed). With the 2019 Shield Tvs being used the most.

Then I have multiple UHD BD players and 2K BD players that are used multiple times each month. As well as Popcorn Hour boxes(UHD and HD) and a Netgear streamer(HD) that are used several times each month(the HD ones give me access to full menus from my 2K BD ISO rips). And UHD Android streamers. With the cheap android streamers being rarely used and the 2K devices only being used a few times during three months. The only devices I would really get rid of would be the cheap Android ones since they suck. And the 2017 Shield TVs. Which I either need to sell or to use in a third UHD setup I will be creating soon. When I replace my 2015 Sony UHD TV with a 2019 TCL Series 8 UHD TV. So the 2015 Sony would go in the tertiary UHD setup.

Unfortunately no device does everything well or has access to all the apps I use. Which is why I've always used multiple devices. With my 2019 Shield TVs being closest to perfect.

But then the Shield TVs can't have HDR from Youtube. The ATV 4K can't do HDR or UHD from Youtube. The ATV 4K can't properly send content at 24 Hz( and currently more and more streaming content is being released at an actual 24hz framerate). The Shield Tv doesn't automatically switch to the native framerate (Although I hear that will be coming soon) etc. Every device has certain issues. Over a decade ago I realized I will always need to have multiple devices to get access to everything I want and also access to the best apps or features. SInce every device is not the same or has access to the same features from the same app. Which is why I've always had so many devices in my setups.


----------



## mdavej

aaronwt said:


> Well for me, in each my two UHD setups, I have an ATV4K, a Roku Ultra or Roku STream 4K, FireTv 4K stick, two Shield TVs(one 2017 and one 2019) , XB1, PS4, and two TiVos in each setup. I use all those devices daily or weekly(well the 2017 Shield TVs really need to be removed). With the 2019 Shield Tvs being used the most.
> 
> Then I have multiple UHD BD players and 2K BD players that are used multiple times each month. As well as Popcorn Hour boxes(UHD and HD) and a Netgear streamer(HD) that are used several times each month(the HD ones give me access to full menus from my 2K BD ISO rips). And UHD Android streamers.


Wow, that's a lot of stuff to watch. I watch a couple of hours every night, maybe a movie (streaming) on the weekend. No gaming at all, and couldn't care less about UHD, HDR or discs. Obviously no Tivos anymore since I switched to Recast and streaming.

Hope a box that does handle all that UHD/HDR correctly eventually comes along.


----------



## NashGuy

aaronwt said:


> But then the Shield TVs can't have HDR from Youtube. The ATV 4K can't do HDR or UHD from Youtube.


I forget -- does the TS4K support both 4K and HDR in the YouTube app? Given the chipset and the fact that it's running Android TV, I'd think so.


----------



## aaronwt

NashGuy said:


> I forget -- does the TS4K support both 4K and HDR in the YouTube app? Given the chipset and the fact that it's running Android TV, I'd think so.


Yes. But the TS4K still erroneously forces everything to HDR. Unless that has changed recently. So it's worthless to me.
SDR should be sent as SDR and HDR should be sent as HDR.


----------



## mdavej

aaronwt said:


> Yes. But the TS4K still erroneously forces everything to HDR. Unless that has changed recently. So it's worthless to me.
> SDR should be sent as SDR and HDR should be sent as HDR.


Obviously that's your TV's problem. The TS4K is perfect and has no such bug.
TiVo Launches $50 Streaming Video Player to Take On Apple TV, Roku, Amazon Fire TV


----------



## BillyClyde

mdavej said:


> Obviously that's your TV's problem. The TS4K is perfect and has no such bug.
> TiVo Launches $50 Streaming Video Player to Take On Apple TV, Roku, Amazon Fire TV


Obviously. 

I never said it wasn't a bug to force it on you with no choice to switch it off if that's your preference. I said the mapping it does is a normal occurrence and if your setup, namely the display, is configured properly then you shouldn't see the overblown image as is being reported. This is fact, believe it if you want or not but that doesn't change this fact.


----------



## aaronwt

mdavej said:


> Obviously that's your TV's problem. The TS4K is perfect and has no such bug.
> TiVo Launches $50 Streaming Video Player to Take On Apple TV, Roku, Amazon Fire TV





BillyClyde said:


> Obviously.
> 
> I never said it wasn't a bug to force it on you with no choice to switch it off if that's your preference. I said the mapping it does is a normal occurrence and if your setup, namely the display, is configured properly then you shouldn't see the overblown image as is being reported. This is fact, believe it if you want or not but that doesn't change this fact.


My TVs have zero problem with the TS4K forced HDR. There is no overblown image. The problem is that it actually forces HDR when it should be sending SDR. SDR content is meant to be viewed in SDR, not in HDR. HDR content is meant to be viewed in HDR. 99% of other devices do this correctly.

It's the same to me as a letterboxed movie and someone zooming in on it. Only SDR sent as HDR is much worse. I would never, ever watch a movie that way.


----------



## BillyClyde

aaronwt said:


> My TVs have zero problem with the TS4K forced HDR. There is no overblown image. The problem is that it actually forces HDR when it should be sending SDR. SDR content is meant to be viewed in SDR, not in HDR. HDR content is meant to be viewed in HDR. 99% of other devices do this correctly.
> 
> It's the same to me as a letterboxed movie and someone zooming in on it. Only SDR sent as HDR is much worse. I would never, ever watch a movie that way.


Then we agree the issue is they didn't give a choice. You may want to tell the other folks this that think it maps wrong, since they don't want to believe me or the experts.

BTW, if your HDR 4K bt2020 setting is setup right, then a Rec709 SDR Video gamut and Gamma mapped into it should look identical to a normal SDR Rec709 input. Key wording is "setup right".


----------



## aaronwt

BillyClyde said:


> Then we agree the issue is they didn't give a choice. You may want to tell the other folks this that think it maps wrong, since they don't want to believe me or the experts.
> 
> BTW, if your HDR 4K bt2020 setting is setup right, then a Rec709 SDR Video gamut and Gamma mapped into it should look identical to a normal SDR Rec709 input. Key wording is "setup right".


If that is the case then I have never seem a TV do that. The SDr image is always brighter than it should be. Since SDR is typically around 100 nits. While HDR is much higher. Although I see the new standard with SDR in BT2020 is supposed to be 203 nits now.

Now with my Shield TVs that send SDr Rec709 in BT2020 it looks correct. It is not sending a signal that it is in HDR. Which would be fine if the TS4K actually did that.


----------



## BillyClyde

aaronwt said:


> If that is the case then I have never seem a TV do that. The SDr image is always brighter than it should be. Since SDR is typically around 100 nits. While HDR is much higher. Although I see the new standard with SDR in BT2020 is supposed to be 203 nits now.
> 
> Now with my Shield TVs that send SDr Rec709 in BT2020 it looks correct. It is not sending a signal that it is in HDR. Which would be fine if the TS4K actually did that.


SDR when mapped was (supposed to be) set to the diffuse white level and as you say it was about 100 nits. Now they're saying to use 203 as you say as well. I guess we watch the same YouTube videos from Vincent? ;-) So yeah that will appear a little brighter.

I have a new shield too but when I switch between it and my TS4K they appear identical. Maybe it is my hdfury helping it and ts4k isn't sending good metadata? I am now watching everything in in lldv dolby vision so maybe that attributes to what I see versus others?


----------



## aaronwt

BillyClyde said:


> SDR when mapped was (supposed to be) set to the diffuse white level and as you say it was about 100 nits. Now they're saying to use 203 as you say as well. I guess we watch the same YouTube videos from Vincent? ;-) So yeah that will appear a little brighter. I have a new shield too but when I switch between it and my TS4K they appear identical. Maybe it is my hdfury helping it and ts4k isn't sending good metadata? I am now watching everything in in lldv dolby vision so maybe that attributes to what I see versus others?


I only had my TS4K during the first month it was available. I returned it because of the always on HDR issue. Otherwise I thought it was a speedy device. But I'm glad I did return it since they still have not done anything about the always on HDR.


----------



## osu1991

aaronwt said:


> I only had my TS4K during the first month it was available. I returned it because of the always on HDR issue. Otherwise I thought it was a speedy device. But I'm glad I did return it since they still have not done anything about the always on HDR.


HDR is supposed to be fixed in the next update according to tivopm on Reddit. I kept the ones I ordered. De-TiVo'd one and use it in my office on an old 1080p tv. I like the google live channels app with my HD Homerun Quattro and Plex works fine at 1080p/60 on it.

It is a very fast device, noticeably faster than my 4K Fire Sticks on my 4K TVs. I like the remote too. If HDR is fixed to my liking I'll move the other in place of a Fire Stick. I'll probably try one of googles new devices once they launch, but I'll let others try them first and report before I jump right in like I did with the TS4K.


----------



## 241705

My devices updated (TS4K SW Version V9.0-4.1.11) and now I see additional options under the Remote Control settings for pairing with TV and AVR. And now the TS4K controls the volume on my old AVR. Sweet!


----------



## Alex_7

Tivo Stream killer?

Google Chromecast remote leaks in new image of the dongle - 9to5Google


----------



## mdavej

That's the second time this week. Chris Evans also leaked an image of his dongle.
Marvel actor Chris Evans accidentally posts his nude photo; here is how netizens reacted

But seriously, nice to see those volume buttons on the side to go with that mute button, and the power and input buttons at the bottom.


----------



## NashGuy

osu1991 said:


> I like the google live channels app with my HD Homerun Quattro and Plex works fine at 1080p/60 on it.


Have you used the free DVR feature in the Live Channels app? (Can't remember if I asked you this before.) If so, how is it and what are you using for storage connected to the TS4K?


----------



## mdavej

NashGuy said:


> Have you used the free DVR feature in the Live Channels app? (Can't remember if I asked you this before.) If so, how is it and what are you using for storage connected to the TS4K?


FWIW, I ran Google Live Channels DVR with an HD HomeRun for a few years on another Andriod TV box. It worked really well for me. I used an old hard drive in a powered enclosure. Should work the same on a TS4K.

I think the OP said he tried Live Channels and didn't like it. Not sure why.


----------



## NashGuy

mdavej said:


> FWIW, I ran Google Live Channels DVR with an HD HomeRun for a few years on another Andriod TV box. It worked really well for me. I used an old hard drive in a powered enclosure. Should work the same on a TS4K.


The TS4K has a USB port separate from the power port, right? (Or maybe two USB ports, one for the power cord and another left open?)

Looks like the new Chromecast with Google TV has a single USB-C port that is used for power. If so, that complicates things a bit for connecting peripherals like a hard drive or SD card reader.


----------



## NashGuy

NashGuy said:


> I thought the same thing. Or maybe like the circular trackpad wheel that debuted with 3rd gen iPod (which was the first one I bought). Perhaps it's like a combination of both: clickable in four directions, like a traditional D-button, but can be touch-scrolled either clockwise or counterclockwise to quickly scrub forward or backward through a playback timeline (or right and left through a horizontal menu).
> 
> If so, that might combine the best elements of the Apple TV remote, with its useful-yet-frustrating trackpad, and a typical streaming remote.
> 
> A potential concern I have, based on that photo I posted, is how the remote might raise or lower the volume. It clearly has a mute button but I don't see vol up/down. Odd. Maybe they're on the side or bottom of the remote, not viewable in the photo.


On further reflection, I'm doubtful that the circular D-pad on the new Chromecast's remote will be a touch-sensitive track wheel. Seems too costly to include in a device that's supposed to only cost $50 or $60.

But glad to see in the new photos today that volume up/down buttons are on the right side of the remote. That should work well -- basically like most cell phones I've owned. And a dedicated mute button on the front is great too. Kinda miss that on my Apple TV remote.


----------



## mdavej

NashGuy said:


> The TS4K has a USB port separate from the power port, right? (Or maybe two USB ports, one for the power cord and another left open?)
> 
> Looks like the new Chromecast with Google TV has a single USB-C port that is used for power. If so, that complicates things a bit for connecting peripherals like a hard drive or SD card reader.


I don't know anything about the TS4K. But I've had to deal with limited connections on Fire stick for years. It also had a single connection that had to carry power. I've seen people mention an OTG adapter for USB-C devices. For Fire stick, you can get adapters that spilt so you can connect power and a peripheral (drive, keyboard, enet adapter, IR adapter, etc.).


----------



## NashGuy

mdavej said:


> I don't know anything about the TS4K. But I've had to deal with limited connections on Fire stick for years. It also had a single connection that had to carry power. I've seen people mention an OTG adapter for USB-C devices. For Fire stick, you can get adapters that spilt so you can connect power and a peripheral (drive, keyboard, enet adapter, IR adapter, etc.).


Yeah. I'm thinking something like this might work:
https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Upgraded-Delivery-Pixelbook-A83460A2-dp-B07ZVKTP53/dp/B07ZVKTP53


----------



## mdavej

NashGuy said:


> Yeah. I'm thinking something like this might work:
> https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Upgraded-Delivery-Pixelbook-A83460A2-dp-B07ZVKTP53/dp/B07ZVKTP53


Looks promising. But my gut tells me something like that is too complex and would require some sort of driver on the host. The ones I use on Firestick are just simple splitters. Let us know if it works.


----------



## trip1eX

The google remote has 3 buttons it doesn’t need: input, power and mute.

and mute is given way too much prominence on top of it.
In the streaming age just pause the show or hit the home button or back button or turn the volume down (to mute.)

and if your tv speaker is voice enabled you can mute with voice.


HDMI-CEC takes care of input. And the Home button can double as a power on button and then hold for a sec to turn off.


Side volume buttons are just like my rokutv remote.
Shame if it doesn’t have a touch wheel. Not sure why the seemingly flat circle then.


----------



## foghorn2

Alex_7 said:


> View attachment 52465
> 
> 
> Tivo Stream killer?
> 
> Google Chromecast remote leaks in new image of the dongle - 9to5Google


Does every device have to have a pedo-flix button on it? Sheesh!


----------



## foghorn2

trip1eX said:


> The google remote has 3 buttons it doesn't need: input, power and mute.
> 
> and mute is given way too much prominence on top of it.
> In the streaming age just pause the show or hit the home button or back button or turn the volume down.
> 
> and if your tv speaker is voice enabled you can mute with voice.
> 
> HDMI-CEC takes care of input. And the Home button can double as a power on button and then hold for a sec to turn off.


Mute is prefect for commercials you cant skip, if anything the ad peddlers would not want that on the remote. Good move for consumers.


----------



## tigercat74

foghorn2 said:


> Mute is prefect for commercials you cant skip, if anything the ad peddlers would not want that on the remote. Good move for consumers.


And I like to mute while watching a game when I'm talking to someone on the phone.


----------



## NashGuy

trip1eX said:


> The google remote has 3 buttons it doesn't need: input, power and mute.
> 
> and mute is given way too much prominence on top of it.
> In the streaming age just pause the show or hit the home button or back button or turn the volume down (to mute.)
> 
> and if your tv speaker is voice enabled you can mute with voice.
> 
> HDMI-CEC takes care of input. And the Home button can double as a power on button and then hold for a sec to turn off.
> 
> Side volume buttons are just like my rokutv remote.
> Shame if it doesn't have a touch wheel. Not sure why the seemingly flat circle then.


As others have said, mute is a useful function (especially during unskippable ads). On the ATV4K, the Channels app has a feature where you can shake the Apple remote to mute but that's only for that app and not nearly as convenient as a dedicated button.

HDMI-CEC doesn't take care of input if all your devices don't support it. So while many won't need the Input button, it's nice that it's there, sort of out of the way, for those who do.


----------



## trip1eX

NashGuy said:


> As others have said, mute is a useful function (especially during unskippable ads). On the ATV4K, the Channels app has a feature where you can shake the Apple remote to mute but that's only for that app and not nearly as convenient as a dedicated button.
> 
> HDMI-CEC doesn't take care of input if all your devices don't support it. So while many won't need the Input button, it's nice that it's there, sort of out of the way, for those who do.


no one said there would be zero casualties.

but my 12 yr old plasma supports HDMI-CEC. and the cases for needing a dedicated mute button are weak.

ie so seldom encountered that it's hardly a bother to (worst case) press the - volume button down a few times or hold it down for a second or two.

I know I watch next to zero unskippable ads in the first place.


----------



## NashGuy

trip1eX said:


> no one said there would be zero casualties.
> 
> but my 12 yr old plasma supports HDMI-CEC. and the cases for needing a dedicated mute button are weak.


Good for you. You can avoid using those buttons or maybe just skip buying this device in the first place. Looks like your opinion on this matter is outnumbered here.


----------



## trip1eX

NashGuy said:


> Good for you. You can avoid using those buttons or maybe just skip buying this device in the first place. Looks like your opinion on this matter is outnumbered here.


lol that's the kind of answer people give when the other guy has a pt and they aren't ready to admit it yet.


----------



## jaselzer

Personally, I find "mute" to be very useful. It is really the dedicated Netflix button that has me scratching my head

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 241705

I don't mind the mute button, but as I'm still getting used to the TS4K remote my thumb keeps finding mute instead of the back button 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## Alex_7

jaselzer said:


> Personally, I find "mute" to be very useful. It is really the dedicated Netflix button that has me scratching my head
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Seems like every device that secures the official Netflix app has some sort of agreement to include the Netflix shortcut button on their remote.


----------



## mdavej

trip1eX said:


> ... the cases for needing a dedicated mute button are weak.


I use the heck out of mute, especially these days when watching streaming services with unskipable commercials. Mute is the next best thing to skip. Without mute, I'd have gone insane a long time ago after seeing the same Charmin commercial for the 100th time.

Please, please don't take away my mute button. I don't want to have to yell at my TV at the beginning and end of every commercial when I can just move my thumb 1mm. I also can't afford to subscribe to the commercial-free version of a dozen different streaming services. So they're something I have to deal with one way or another.


----------



## warrenn

Having a mute button is awesome for streaming services with their repetitive, unskippable commercials. If you don't have a button for 30-second skip, then mute is the next best thing. But if you only watch commercial free services, then I can see how mute would be unnecessary.


----------



## aaronwt

Alex_7 said:


> Seems like every device that secures the official Netflix app has some sort of agreement to include the Netflix shortcut button on their remote.


They are the largest streaming service. So it does make sense to have them for a shortcut button.


----------



## Noelmel

Alex_7 said:


> Seems like every device that secures the official Netflix app has some sort of agreement to include the Netflix shortcut button on their remote.


Except Apple TV but maybe that's what Netflix still refuses to be a part of Up Next Channels lol.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## trip1eX

mdavej said:


> I use the heck out of mute, especially these days when watching streaming services with unskippable commercials. Mute is the next best thing to skip. Without mute, I'd have gone insane a long time ago after seeing the same Charmin commercial for the 100th time.
> 
> Please, please don't take away my mute button. I don't want to have to yell at my TV at the beginning and end of every commercial when I can just move my thumb 1mm. I also can't afford to subscribe to the commercial-free version of a dozen different streaming services. So they're something I have to deal with one way or another.


lol what bizarro world do you live in that you are watching tons of unskippable commercials?

Netflix - 0. Prime - 0. HBO - 0. ATV+ - 0. Disney+ - 0. YTTV recordings - 0. Showtime- 0. ...

VOD is the only place I encounter them. And I watch next to zero VoD. The vibe in this forum always felt like avoid VoD at all costs.


----------



## tigercat74

trip1eX said:


> lol what bizarro world do you live in that you are watching tons of unskippable commercials?
> 
> Netflix - 0. Prime - 0. HBO - 0. ATV+ - 0. Disney+ - 0. YTTV recordings - 0. Showtime- 0. ...
> 
> VOD is the only place I encounter them. And I watch next to zero VoD. The vibe in this forum always felt like avoid VoD at all costs.


Hulu basic plan Peacock premium plan both have commercials.


----------



## rczrider

tigercat74 said:


> Hulu basic plan Peacock premium plan both have commercials.


And YouTube. Not the stupid expensive YouTube TV service (people actually pay $65 for that???), just regular YouTube.

Of course, that's why I sideloaded Smart YouTube TV.


----------



## mdavej

trip1eX said:


> lol what bizarro world do you live in that you are watching tons of unskippable commercials?
> 
> Netflix - 0. Prime - 0. HBO - 0. ATV+ - 0. Disney+ - 0. YTTV recordings - 0. Showtime- 0. ...
> 
> VOD is the only place I encounter them. And I watch next to zero VoD. The vibe in this forum always felt like avoid VoD at all costs.





tigercat74 said:


> Hulu basic plan Peacock premium plan both have commercials.


Yep. Also IMDB, Pluto, Youtube (not TV version), Spotify, YTTV on demand, and on demand from any individual provider's app (Comedy Central, History, etc.).

I just finished binging 3 seasons of AP Bio on Peacock which had approximate 1 gazillion commercials. Same story for 4 seasons of Veronica Mars on Hulu. I'd be in the looney bin without that mute button. Granted, I'll probably never watch anything else on Peacock again. But there's still lots of stuff on Hulu and IMDB I like.

In my bizarro world, I can't afford HBO, ATV+, Disney+, Sho, etc. Actually, I guess I could afford all those, but I just don't want to pay for a million streaming services. I'm happy with a mute button and cash in my pocket for more important things than TV.

Anyway, I guess I'm just a tightwad and a glutton for punishment. Now if anybody out there wants to share a login and help a brother out... ;-)


----------



## Alex_7

Amazon is expected to announce new devices on September 24th


----------



## foghorn2

Alex_7 said:


> Amazon is expected to announce new devices on September 24th


Im sick of the amazon sticks, I want real a Andriod TV device for a good price with all its HW capabilities enabled.. So far the Air TV Stream 4K is the only one.

The Tivo sticks screws with deinterlacing and mpeg2, thats why 2 have gone back to tivo.


----------



## tigercat74

rczrider said:


> And YouTube. Not the stupid expensive YouTube TV service (people actually pay $65 for that???), just regular YouTube.
> 
> Of course, that's why I sideloaded Smart YouTube TV.


I love YouTube TV but I watch a lot of sports.


----------



## Alex_7

Amazon's ancient 1080p Fire TV Stick might finally get an upgrade

Amazon gearing up for new streaming sticks right before Googles Sabrina announcement. Strange that they are releasing a 1080p device


----------



## rczrider

Alex_7 said:


> Strange that they are releasing a 1080p device


I guess they agree with Xiaomi that there's a market for it. I think they're stupid, but I'm not a billionaire, so what do I know.


----------



## NashGuy

Alex_7 said:


> Amazon's ancient 1080p Fire TV Stick might finally get an upgrade
> 
> Amazon gearing up for new streaming sticks right before Googles Sabrina announcement. Strange that they are releasing a 1080p device


I guess Amazon figures that they can't abandon the low-end. Gotta have something to compete against the Roku Express and original Chromecast, which both sell for $30. Although this new Fire TV Stick Lite will have a voice remote, which neither of those two have.

The model this replaces sold for $40 (when it wasn't on sale for less). Although it also had volume and power buttons. Maybe this one is priced at $35?


----------



## mrizzo80

ButtonMapper isn’t working as well as it used to. It used to have like a 1-in-20 failure rate. It’s now like 1-in-10. I think there was a TiVo update recently. Maybe they altered the remote sensitivity or something.


----------



## mattyro7878

aaronwt said:


> Well for me, in each my two UHD setups, I have an ATV4K, a Roku Ultra or Roku STream 4K, FireTv 4K stick, two Shield TVs(one 2017 and one 2019) , XB1, PS4, and two TiVos in each setup. I use all those devices daily or weekly(well the 2017 Shield TVs really need to be removed). With the 2019 Shield Tvs being used the most.
> 
> Then I have multiple UHD BD players and 2K BD players that are used multiple times each month. As well as Popcorn Hour boxes(UHD a
> many devices in my setups.


I can see why you have all these devices. I was shocked to see how many devices are connected to my Gateway. In your case it must be a massive amount. All those devices, your Tivos all have MAC addresses; you probably have multiple phones and tablets; I am not saying this is good or bad or needs to be changed-- just that the number of connected devices is much higher than you would think.


----------



## mattyro7878

trip1eX said:


> lol what bizarro world do you live in that you are watching tons of unskippable commercials?
> 
> Netflix - 0. Prime - 0. HBO - 0. ATV+ - 0. Disney+ - 0. YTTV recordings - 0. Showtime- 0. ...
> 
> VOD is the only place I encounter them. And I watch next to zero VoD. The vibe in this forum always felt like avoid VoD at all costs.


CBS All Access has unskippable commercials on their low end plan. Seeing that I watch 2 shows on that platform I pay as little as possible.


----------



## mattyro7878

Alex_7 said:


> Amazon's ancient 1080p Fire TV Stick might finally get an upgrade
> 
> Amazon gearing up for new streaming sticks right before Googles Sabrina announcement. Strange that they are releasing a 1080p device


1080p done well can be very satisfying. My step up from a 1080i to a Samsung 1080p years ago was the first time in a while I was really impressed with a new tv. Usually audio with 1080p is no more than DD 5.1 so thats a drawback.


----------



## dswallow

Alex_7 said:


> View attachment 52465


Button-wise in some ways very similar to the nVidia Shield TV Pro remote, though with fewer buttons and mixing device buttons in the middle of app buttons. I watch Netflix a lot. But I hate having a Netflix button. All that ever happens is I accidentally press it carrying the remote around interrupting whatever I'm already watching, be it on Netflix or some other app. I know I can change it on the nVidia Shield, but just haven't gone and done so. Of course it'll still say "Netflix" on the button.


----------



## Alex_7

New 3rd-gen Fire TV Stick and Fire TV Stick Lite announced by Amazon


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

Alex_7 said:


> New 3rd-gen Fire TV Stick and Fire TV Stick Lite announced by Amazon


Also this, for all Fire models: Amazon announces redesigned Fire TV Interface

In the context of this thread though, I wonder how many people are hacking into Fire Sticks to remove all the Amazon stuff like folks are doing with the TS4K. Seems like a slightly better deal, if you're OK with the remote. I see hacks out there for jailbreaking the system to install other apps, and others for rooting and converting them to pure Android.


----------



## aaronwt

mattyro7878 said:


> I can see why you have all these devices. I was shocked to see how many devices are connected to my Gateway. In your case it must be a massive amount. All those devices, your Tivos all have MAC addresses; you probably have multiple phones and tablets; I am not saying this is good or bad or needs to be changed-- just that the number of connected devices is much higher than you would think.


Yes. I've got over 120 devices on my home network. 
Heck, I added three more devices in the past week.


----------



## foghorn2

aaronwt said:


> Yes. I've got over 120 devices on my home network.
> Heck, I added three more devices in the past week.


as you walk through his house, you brain will increase in temp 1.25 degrees farenhight.


----------



## Alex_7

I meant to originally post this here



















Looks Like Google's new Google TV interface will look very similar to Amazon's new interface.

A redditor managed to snag one early from walmart, it looks very sleek and snappy.




































it runs Android TV version 10









comes with 4.4GB storage


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/googlehome/comments/iz50fb

^video of the UI

I will for sure be purchasing one


----------



## foghorn2

If this (sabrina)will play mpeg2 as good as the the air tv mini 4k with kodi via hardware, I'm getting several.


----------



## Alex_7

My local walmart shows it in stock, I'm going to try to pick one up I might get turned down but its worth a shot.


----------



## NashGuy

foghorn2 said:


> If this (sabrina)will play mpeg2 as good as the the air tv mini 4k with kodi via hardware, I'm getting several.


It should. I've researched the specs on the SoC that this new Chromecast uses (the Amlogic S905X2) and it natively supports decoding MPEG-2 and can handle the .TS (transport stream) container that ATSC 1.0 OTA broadcasts are delivered in. (The Air TV Mini uses the S905Y2 chip which is the same except it does not have an ethernet input.)

I hope the Live tab in the new Google TV home screen will integrate OTA channels from available tuners. I know its live channel grid guide will show channels from YouTube TV.


----------



## NashGuy

Overall, I like what I see in the Google TV UI based on those photos and the video posted above. Except I'm sad to see that the "Play next" watchlist -- which had been just below the large "Staff Picks" graphical carousel of feature titles at the top of the For You tab -- has apparently been replaced with a "Top picks" row of suggested content titles.

I really like the universal watchlist in the Apple TV's TV app. Even the Google Play Movies and TV app for Android mobile -- which is conceptually similar to the Google TV UI -- has a watchlist feature. Not sure why they didn't include one in Google TV unless it was just because they couldn't get enough of the major apps to support it. (All of them except Netflix do on Apple TV.)


----------



## NashGuy

Seems even stranger that they didn't include a universal watchlist in Google TV considering the Chrome browser-based Kaleidoscope project they're building that apparently seeks to do that: Chrome Kaleidoscope - Watch Your Video Streaming Services on One Page - Chrome Story

I did notice that at the bottom of Google TV's main For You tab, you can click to select exactly which streaming services you want Google to provide recommendations from on the For You tab. So at least you shouldn't be shown a bunch of stuff from services you don't pay for or care about. That's good.


----------



## Alex_7

NashGuy said:


> Seems even stranger that they didn't include a universal watchlist in Google TV considering the Chrome browser-based Kaleidoscope project they're building that apparently seeks to do that: Chrome Kaleidoscope - Watch Your Video Streaming Services on One Page - Chrome Story
> 
> I did notice that at the bottom of Google TV's main For You tab, you can click to select exactly which streaming services you want Google to provide recommendations from on the For You tab. So at least you shouldn't be shown a bunch of stuff from services you don't pay for or care about. That's good.


There is a tab at the very right side that is called "Library" That is where your watch list will be, but I'm not sure if it will only be through Movies anywhere service, it asks you to sign in


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## Alex_7

So I took a trip to Walmart and got my hands on the new chromecast! But unfortunately I was not allowed to purchase just yet. It wasn't on the floor shelves so I asked the Walmart dude working there if they had it in stock. He said we have it right here, he then pulls me to the side and opens the locked shelf behind the counter. He let me look and hold the box. He was even cool enough to let me snap this pic. He told me they will go on sale on September 30th, the same day as the Google event.


----------



## foghorn2

NashGuy said:


> It should. I've researched the specs on the SoC that this new Chromecast uses (the Amlogic S905X2) and it natively supports decoding MPEG-2 and can handle the .TS (transport stream) container that ATSC 1.0 OTA broadcasts are delivered in. (The Air TV Mini uses the S905Y2 chip which is the same except it does not have an ethernet input.)
> 
> I hope the Live tab in the new Google TV home screen will integrate OTA channels from available tuners. I know its live channel grid guide will show channels from YouTube TV.


The Tivo stick is the same processor as the Air Stick too, but Tivo screws with the HW capabilities. We shall see if Goggle does the same.


----------



## Alex_7

NashGuy said:


> It should. I've researched the specs on the SoC that this new Chromecast uses (the Amlogic S905X2) and it natively supports decoding MPEG-2 and can handle the .TS (transport stream) container that ATSC 1.0 OTA broadcasts are delivered in. (The Air TV Mini uses the S905Y2 chip which is the same except it does not have an ethernet input.)
> 
> I hope the Live tab in the new Google TV home screen will integrate OTA channels from available tuners. I know its live channel grid guide will show channels from YouTube TV.


It's actually S905X3

Chromecast with Google TV gets full unboxing [Gallery] - 9to5Google


----------



## aaronwt

Alex_7 said:


> It's actually S905X3
> 
> Chromecast with Google TV gets full unboxing [Gallery] - 9to5Google


From what I've read the S905X3 is supposedly around 15% more powerful than the S905X2. And the S905X3 uses less power.


----------



## ListedGuru

So is this google device going to force hdr on all content like the TS4K does? If not I'm in.

-Guru


----------



## NashGuy

Alex_7 said:


> It's actually S905X3
> 
> Chromecast with Google TV gets full unboxing [Gallery] - 9to5Google


Close. Per this report from Android TV Guide on Twitter today, it's actually the S905D3 (a same-gen sibling to the S905X3):

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1309743384681238529
Everyone (including myself) had been expecting the previous-gen S905X2 based on the firmware that had leaked out earlier this year.

So this chip will be a bit faster than what we had been expecting. Plus the Gen 3 line of chips have a AI accelerator that should make for faster processing of voice requests to Google Assistant. (The new Gen 4 line supports AV1 decoding. Alas, that didn't make it into this device. But I'm sure those would've been too costly for Google to put in a $50 device.)

Don't think there's much difference between the -X3 and -D3. From what I can gather, looks like the D series SoCs are intended for TV boxes with more than one tuner. Not sure why Google is using those chips in the Chromecast and Nest Hub.


----------



## NashGuy

ListedGuru said:


> So is this google device going to force hdr on all content like the TS4K does? If not I'm in.
> 
> -Guru


Yeah, this is one of the questions I'm concerned about.

Also wondering if it will, in fact, support Dolby Vision HDR as had been reported based on the earlier build firmware leak. We know things have changed since that build because the actual product is shipping with a new SoC. So other aspects may have changed too. The SoC in the device can certainly support Dolby Vision but it's an optional feature that Google would have to license from Dolby and implement. And I haven't seen any reference to Dolby Vision on any of the photos of the product box or in any of the screenshots.

Another feature I wonder about is variable framerate. Can its output be set to automatically match the native framerate of the content its playing, as can be done on Apple TV and Fire TV?


----------



## NashGuy

Alex_7 said:


> There is a tab at the very right side that is called "Library" That is where your watch list will be, but I'm not sure if it will only be through Movies anywhere service, it asks you to sign in


The Library tab is where your collection of owned titles will be. When I refer to a watchlist, I'm talking about the queue of series and movies you've saved from across various streaming services to watch later. Something like what the TiVo Stream app on the TS4K tries to do, or what the ReelGood app does.


----------



## Alex_7

NashGuy said:


> The Library tab is where your collection of owned titles will be. When I refer to a watchlist, I'm talking about the queue of series and movies you've saved from across various streaming services to watch later. Something like what the TiVo Stream app on the TS4K tries to do, or what the ReelGood app does.


I sure hope they add that as a feature


----------



## Tony from the corner

Greetings. First time poster here although I've had a TiVo Roamio since 2014.

I purchased the TiVo stream 4K from Amazon. Unfortunately I realize it was made in China. I don't feel good about that. Most supply lines have moved to Vietnam and other places. Anyway, this is the personal nit.

So I got it set up today and set up was pretty easy. Although I had to take several tries to pair the remote to the unit. But all is well.

I'm mainly chiming in because I have this temporarily connected to a Samsung Q80R 4K television... Does not have Dolby vision, what supports HDR10 and HDR10+.

I find that the unit is outputting everything as HDR like others have reported. And my Samsung TV indicates it's receiving HDR. But the colors are not washed out or muted or faded or anything.

My critical testing was done using the Plex app to stream MKV Blu-ray rips. So I guess the TiVo is tone mapping SDR to HDR... And I'd imagine it's doing a pretty good job of it because my Samsung Q80R is handling the video just fine.


Edit:
The interface is pretty slick. Kind of makes the fire TV interface look like crap. In my opinion

It looks like the home screen being black was resolved. As soon as I powered up the unit it installed update (I think it was called...) 4896


----------



## NashGuy

NashGuy said:


> Another feature I wonder about is variable framerate. Can its output be set to automatically match the native framerate of the content its playing, as can be done on Apple TV and Fire TV?


Hmm, looks like a variable/native framerate feature may have to wait for an upgrade to Android TV 11. That appears to be a feature that Google has only just made possible with the new version of the OS. And for apps to make use of the feature, they'll have to target Android 11 (API level 30).

Frame rate | Android Developers

The TS4K runs Android TV 9 and the new Chromecast with Google TV is launching with Android TV 10, although I expect it will update to 11 before long.


----------



## rczrider

NashGuy said:


> Close. Per this report from Android TV Guide on Twitter today, it's actually the S905D3 (a same-gen sibling to the S905X3):
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1309743384681238529
> Everyone (including myself) had been expecting the previous-gen S905X2 based on the firmware that had leaked out earlier this year.
> 
> So this chip will be a bit faster than what we had been expecting. Plus the Gen 3 line of chips have a AI accelerator that should make for faster processing of voice requests to Google Assistant. (The new Gen 4 line supports AV1 decoding. Alas, that didn't make it into this device. But I'm sure those would've been too costly for Google to put in a $50 device.)
> 
> Don't think there's much difference between the -X3 and -D3. From what I can gather, looks like the D series SoCs are intended for TV boxes with more than one tuner. Not sure why Google is using those chips in the Chromecast and Nest Hub.


I wonder if that extra bit of processing power - and the neural network accelerator - will be used for Stadia?

I agree, I don't understand the use of the "D" SoC, unless it was cheaper for them to buy. Or maybe they'll offer a USB-C tuner one day, haha.


----------



## mrizzo80

YTTV is constantly freezing on me over the past week or so. The audio continues, but the picture is frozen. I can temporarily fix it by fast forwarding. YTTV Support couldn’t offer much help. Anyone else? I’m going to fire up my Firestick 4K to see if it happens there. 

Not happening on any other video apps. Internet bandwidth is not a problem. Everything in the chain (router, TiVo Stream, etc) has been rebooted.


----------



## fattymcbuckles

mrizzo80 said:


> YTTV is constantly freezing on me over the past week or so. The audio continues, but the picture is frozen. I can temporarily fix it by fast forwarding. YTTV Support couldn't offer much help. Anyone else? I'm going to fire up my Firestick 4K to see if it happens there.
> 
> Not happening on any other video apps. Internet bandwidth is not a problem. Everything in the chain (router, TiVo Stream, etc) has been rebooted.


Mine was doing this to until I got an Ethernet adapter and that seemed to solve the problem so I think it was a WiFi problem. Another thing you can try in YouTube settings is to make sure quality is set to auto


----------



## mrizzo80

fattymcbuckles said:


> Mine was doing this to until I got an Ethernet adapter and that seemed to solve the problem so I think it was a WiFi problem. Another thing you can try in YouTube settings is to make sure quality is set to auto


Thanks. Happy that solved your problem, but I don't see myself going the Ethernet route. It is set to auto - I also throttled it down to 720p over the weekend to no avail.

It only happens on certain channels, I think, usually cable stations. I watched CBS and FOX football on Sunday without issue.


----------



## mrizzo80

YTTV works great on Firestick 4K on a known problem channel on TS4K.


----------



## foghorn2

My local Walmart has the Tivo sticks in stock, Sabrina's are all gone. Telling..


----------



## siratfus

Introductory price for the TS4k of $50 is no longer introductory? LOL!


----------



## krkaufman

foghorn2 said:


> My local Walmart has the Tivo sticks in stock, Sabrina's are all gone. Telling..


The TS4K didn't seem to be flying off the shelves at our local Walmart...






​


----------



## 241705

Do many people (outside of those on this forum) still recognize TiVo as a brand? Pretty much everyone knows Google.


----------



## NashGuy

blackngold75 said:


> Do many people (outside of those on this forum) still recognize TiVo as a brand? Pretty much everyone knows Google.


Yeah. This is why it's hard to see TiVo or anyone else being able to compete against Google in the sub-$100 Android TV streaming device space. (Well, Google's brand power/familiarity is one reason. Other reasons include the fact that Android TV is evolving/rebranding into Google TV, which is right now exclusive to the new Chromecast, and because consumers tend to have more trust in a device where a single company is behind both the hardware and software.)

As long as Google doesn't roll out a $100+ high-end Google TV device aimed at home theater enthusiasts and gamers, the Nvidia Shield TV should be OK. It's already earned its reputation and a loyal little following in that market segment.

So I really see Android TV/Google TV coming down to whatever Google sells (currently, just the new Chromecast), smart TVs, the Nvidia Shield TV, and devices customized by pay TV/broadband operators for distribution to their customers (e.g. AT&T TV box, Sling's AirTV Mini, forthcoming T-Vision dongle, Verizon Stream TV, etc.).


----------



## foghorn2

People still see TiVo as a recorder, and the stick wont do that or play recorded stuff off a Tivo.

I still think if they partnered with Sling and make a great new DVR interface for it, the Tivo stick would be a hit and Tivo would still be there on Sabrina or any other Streamer.

I like Sling, but the cloud DVR interface is lacking.


----------



## Alex_7

mrizzo80 said:


> YTTV is constantly freezing on me over the past week or so. The audio continues, but the picture is frozen. I can temporarily fix it by fast forwarding. YTTV Support couldn't offer much help. Anyone else? I'm going to fire up my Firestick 4K to see if it happens there.
> 
> Not happening on any other video apps. Internet bandwidth is not a problem. Everything in the chain (router, TiVo Stream, etc) has been rebooted.


Happened to me with Netflix yesterday


----------



## foghorn2

Is $41 right now at az, they can't give it away!


----------



## foghorn2

Its 41 at Walmart to. TiVo is dead for many reasons. Foe me they really hit the fan when they screwed with the HW capabilities. And they are still asking for $500 + for lifetime on their DVR's?


----------



## dougtv

I would have gotten this if it at least connected to my TiVo DVRs and played recordings or let me schedule recordings in another room. I get not having Live TV like a TiVo Mini, but at least the TiVo app could have been on the Tivo stream.

It would have been even a step cooler if you could use a single TiVo remote (BT) somehow to switch between TiVo DVR hardware (TE3 or TE4) and TiVo Stream...solving all outdated streaming capabilities of Premiere/Roamio/Bolt.


----------



## Alex_7

I’m getting choppy frame rates while watching baseball on the fox sports app, anyone else experiencing this?
My firestick is playing just fine.

Im about done with this TiVo stream going to replace it soon with the chromecast

EDIT: Wow, the fire tv stick 4K quality is way better than the TiVo stream, for the longest I thought my tv was the problem since it was an older tv model. I thought my tv was having issues displaying correct HDR but now I realize it was the TiVo stream all along. The TiVo stream is going into the junk drawer.


----------



## foghorn2

On my 2 Samsung 4K TVs, one is from 2017, the other is a 2020 model- the PQ from the Firestick 4K is inferior to the new Chrome 4k ,Tivo Stick and The AirTV Mini 4Ks.

The FireSticks put out a dull colorless image. The whole interface too looks lifeless and boring full of junk.

The Xbox One and the HTPC with a Radeon RX card blows all these streamers in PQ, but too hard to navigate. I wish there was a 4k stick that put out PQ as good as a AMD based device.

They all look about the same on a 1080p Panny Plasma.


----------



## aaronwt

foghorn2 said:


> On my 2 Samsung 4K TVs, one is from 2017, the other is a 2020 model- the PQ from the Firestick 4K is inferior to the new Chrome 4k ,Tivo Stick and The AirTV Mini 4Ks.
> 
> The FireSticks put out a dull colorless image. The whole interface too looks lifeless and boring full of junk.
> 
> The Xbox One and the HTPC with a Radeon RX card blows all these streamers in PQ, but too hard to navigate. I wish there was a 4k stick that put out PQ as good as a AMD based device.
> 
> They all look about the same on a 1080p Panny Plasma.


It's an SDR interface. It is still colorful but not like with HDR. I see as much color on my 4K FireTv sticks as I do from my Chromecast with Google TV or any other streamer or game system I have with an SDR UI.


----------



## BillyClyde

This is interesting......

Deeper Dive-TiVo Stream 4K burrows deeper into legacy pay TV

So they're partnered with MSOs, so why couldn't they be using the Operator Tier of Android, as was discussed previously? I wonder if their Guide is integrated into the Stream the same as Sling's is?


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

BillyClyde said:


> So they're partnered with MSOs, so why couldn't they be using the Operator Tier of Android, as was discussed previously? I wonder if their Guide is integrated into the Stream the same as Sling's is?


Article says these are for broadband-only subs, so I'm assuming operator tier wouldn't apply. No channel subscription involved.


----------



## BillyClyde

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Article says these are for broadband-only subs, so I'm assuming operator tier wouldn't apply. No channel subscription involved.


It's all cloud streaming and DVR, so don't see why it wouldn't apply.


----------



## NashGuy

RCN already has a page on their site for the TS4K. It looks like it's the same as the current retail version. And RCN is clearly pushing Sling as an alternative to their own cable TV service.

Introducing TiVo® Stream 4K -Get Control Of Your TV | RCN


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

BillyClyde said:


> It's all cloud streaming and DVR, so don't see why it wouldn't apply.


Video providers can distribute operator tier boxes to video customers. Broadband alone doesn't apply.

Tivo has an operator tier box available. I WISH that's what the Stream was.


----------



## NashGuy

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Tivo has an operator tier box available. I WISH that's what the Stream was.


Some of the regulars on here used to hope/speculate that TiVo might come out with something like that as a retail device and create their own OTT vMVPD to be used in conjunction with it as the backend service (or strike a deal with an existing one, like PS Vue, so that it could be entirely accessed and controlled through TiVo's own UI). Doesn't look like that will ever happen. And even if it did, I still think the device would have to start up in the Android TV home screen since it would be a retail device (i.e. same situation as Sling's AirTV Mini).


----------

