# TiVo Desktop reporting excessive copy protection



## DaveLinger (Dec 4, 2008)

Hello,

I have Comcast service in Morgantown, WV (26505). I have one M-card.

I bought a license for TiVo Desktop Plus years ago, and I saw a commercial I wanted to get a snapshot from today, so I recorded it.

Then I installed TiVo Desktop, and upgraded it to Plus. I clicked "choose recordings to transfer", but about 90% of the shows I see are copy protected, and can't be transferred.

This includes:

EVERYTHING from the following channels:

Food Network
Discovery
G4
Current
FX

In fact, even my podcast/"web videos" are showing up as copy protected. Literally everything except Fringe, and shows from Spike TV.

I'm assuming this is not right. What should I do first?


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

DaveLinger said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have Comcast service in Morgantown, WV (26505). I have one M-card.
> 
> ...


Your assumption is incorrect. You can call Comcast and ask them to set the CCI byte to '00' on those channels. They will say no. They are within their legal rights to set the copy protection on those channels and others, except for local broadcast channels (probably why Fringe is not copy protected given your examples of shows). There is a LOT of discussion on this practice within these forums and elsewhere.


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## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

You should tune to these channels and go into settings>account&system info>dvr diagnostics; and scroll down to the CCI Byte field. If it is not "0x00", ComCast is setting the copy protect byte for this channel.

Not much you can do about it if that is the case. Check your local network channels as they are forbidden by the FCC to set the flags on these.


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## Airhead315 (Jun 11, 2009)

DaveLinger said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have Comcast service in Morgantown, WV (26505). I have one M-card.
> 
> ...


Hey! I'm also in Morgantown(live by the stadium). I have this same problem, Comcast is setting the CCI bit on ALOT of channels. Legally, comcast cannot set the CCI bit on local broadcast channels like CBS, ABC, NBC... Unfortunately they can set the bit on anything else.

FYI, saw a guy installing fiber optic cable for verizon the other day and asked if it was for FIOS. He stated no and added that verizon would not be interested in installing fios in the area due to the impending sale to frontier. So looks like our only option is Comcast since the Tivo HD cannot handle sattelite and we are way to far from the broadcasts to get OTA.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

That sucks. In my area, Comcast has all the channels flagged as 0x00 except for the premiums. I just know one day some idiot is going to flip the switch, and there goes my precious MRV.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

gweempose said:


> In my area, Comcast has all the channels flagged as 0x00 except for the premiums. I just know one day some idiot is going to flip the switch, and there goes my precious MRV.


And, at that point, you'll have to ask yourself whether the bogus setting by Comcast (which in most cases is not authorized by the content owner but simply at Comcast's whim) has any moral or ethical force, or whether you are free to reestablish the prior state by technological means.


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## a68oliver (Jul 15, 2000)

All hope is not lost. 

In my market, central Indiana, Comcast had copy protection set when they bought the cable franchise a few years ago. They removed it and set it to 0x00 this last year when they were doing system upgrades. They have now switched me from a combination of analog and digital to all digital.

I don't know if this is their master plan as they convert systems to all digital.


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## HeatherA (Jan 10, 2002)

Just pulled up TiVo desktop for my new TiVo HD on Insight in Columbus Ohio and everything is copy protected except local stations and a few bravo shows. 

Stupid...


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## Gavroche (May 27, 2007)

DaveLinger said:


> In fact, even my podcast/"web videos" are showing up as copy protected. Literally everything except Fringe, and shows from Spike TV.


Just wanted to comment with regards to the web videos issue. I had to laugh when I pressed the info button to see the full description on the President Obama weekly podcast. At the end of the description it says "(PUBLIC DOMAIN)" and right under that it says you can not transfer or download it from your Tivo "due to copyright restrictions set by the copyright holder."


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Gavroche said:


> Just wanted to comment with regards to the web videos issue. I had to laugh when I pressed the info button to see the full description on the President Obama weekly podcast. At the end of the description it says "(PUBLIC DOMAIN)" and right under that it says you can not transfer or download it from your Tivo "due to copyright restrictions set by the copyright holder."


Yeah. All downloads are "copy once" for no damned reason...especially since you can go to any computer in the world and download a do-whatever-you-want unprotected copy.

I figger that Tivo wants to count every copy so they can put the arm on the providers to charge them or sell ads. They must have a deal for the featured shows already, as they the dumped Podshow network shows and signed up Revision3.


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

Noticed Comcast-Nashville has copy protected the TruTV channel now. Weird.


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## dwsutton (Jan 19, 2008)

janry said:


> Noticed Comcast-Nashville has copy protected the TruTV channel now. Weird.


Just got a second HD unit for MVR and today I find almost all recordings are copy protected on comcast in Franklin TN. Jerks.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

And FIOS is just the opposite. Nothing is restricted. The restrictions should really be somewhere between the two.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

dwsutton said:


> Just got a second HD unit for MVR and today I find almost all recordings are copy protected on comcast in Franklin TN. Jerks.


You really should escalate this to their corporate office - in the ATL, only the premiums and a few movie channels are protected. It is not Comcast policy to protect everything, but some areas are apparently worse than others and might need some 'encouragement' to get in line. Others have had success in pressing the issue.


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## qz3fwd (Jul 6, 2007)

Sounds like you need a "Secret Decoder Ring" or have your Tivo socketed.


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## lynnalexandra (Apr 27, 2009)

I am so frustrated by the increasing copy protected shows. Not premium channels - and not new releases. I can't transfer my recordings of Hans Christian Andersen from 1952, Last Tango in Paris (1973), My darling Clementine (1946). The two things I want to be able to do are are transfer them to my bedroom for watching at night (that's why I bought two tivos with lifetime service) - or transfer to my computer, edit out commercials and send back to Tivo (so it takes up less space - I'm almost filled to capacity on my 2TB upgraded Tivo HD). These seem to be reasonable intentions - not to distribute content - just watch and story it in the Tivo of my choice.

I see this trend continuing which makes the entire Tivo solution a poor one. If I originally had these go to my computer (and installed a HD tv tuner inside my desktop), could I record it to my pc - and then be able to edit using VideoRedo - could I save it as an mpeg and transfer it.

Pretty soon they will be spoiling the best feature I liked in Tivo - multi-room viewing. We don't have Fios in DC yet - and rumors are it could take a couple of more years - if that.

Any thoughts about whether there'll be a way to remove this protection just for use within our own homes and among our own Tivos?

I'm a newbie - and pretty discouraged.
Thanks.
Lynn.


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## missor88 (May 27, 2009)

Cox Cable in New Orleans has begun copy-right protecting ABC shows, which is HUGELY inconvenient. 

It's my understanding that they're not supposed to do this with local channels, but they clearly are. I'm relatively certain they are doing it with all the major network shows (NBC, CBS and FOX), as I was looking at a stream of copy-right protected notices next to a bunch of my shows several weeks ago, but now that most network shows are in rerun, I haven't had many on my TiVo to really examine the situation more thoroughly. All this chatter made me finally just go and check, and confirm the ABC issue, since some of those shows are still on the TiVo. For example, V and Eastwick. All recordings from my local PBS station are also copyright protected.

I know the suggested solution for this issue regarding local channels is to call your cable provider, but, as inconvenient as it is, I don't think my annoyance level with this issue is high enough to warrant it. Yet. I'm still seething with anger from a few years ago when they told me that using any cable box other than one rented from them was illegal, leading to an epic battle, so I'm not sure I'm ready for the stress of this fight.


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## StanSimmons (Jun 10, 2000)

I fought with Time Warner in Dallas for over a year on this same subject.

I finally gave up... and hacked all my TiVoHD's. None of my shows have the CCI byte set any more. I can watch TV my way once again. 

The hack requires socketing the boot rom on the main board. If you aren't VERY good at soldering, there are a few places that will do it for you, but they aren't cheap. After you get a hacked rom installed, it is a simple matter to modify the software to just ignore the CCI byte when recording a show.


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

janry said:


> Noticed Comcast-Nashville has copy protected the TruTV channel now. Weird.


Noticed this weekend the copy protection has been removed from TruTV. :up:


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## jacknife76 (Apr 20, 2010)

orangeboy said:


> Your assumption is incorrect. You can call Comcast and ask them to set the CCI byte to '00' on those channels. They will say no. They are within their legal rights to set the copy protection on those channels and others, except for local broadcast channels (probably why Fringe is not copy protected given your examples of shows). There is a LOT of discussion on this practice within these forums and elsewhere.


What do I do when the CCI byte is ALREADY set to 0x00, yet I can't transfer ANYTHING NEW from TiVo to TiVo. I have a new premier/HD and an old series 2, but I thought that wouldnt matter in terms of MRV. (beyond the HD stuff)
I cannot transfer recordings from ANY channel, including NBC, CBS, ABC, etc., they all have a red slash symbol.
I feel like something is wrong...

Any thoughts?


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

jacknife76 said:


> What do I do when the CCI byte is ALREADY set to 0x00, yet I can't transfer ANYTHING NEW from TiVo to TiVo. I have a new premier/HD and an old series 2, but I thought that wouldnt matter in terms of MRV. (beyond the HD stuff)
> I cannot transfer recordings from ANY channel, including NBC, CBS, ABC, etc., they all have a red slash symbol.
> I feel like something is wrong...
> 
> Any thoughts?


Which way is the transfer? Premiere to the Series2? Series2 to the Premiere?


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## jacknife76 (Apr 20, 2010)

Both -- series 2 to premier and vice versa

Interesting note -- I CAN transfer all of the shows recorded when we had DirecTV, which is why I don't believe it's the TiVo units. (we just switched to Comcast a few weeks ago)


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## turbobozz (Sep 21, 2006)

jacknife76 said:


> What do I do when the CCI byte is ALREADY set to 0x00, yet I can't transfer ANYTHING NEW from TiVo to TiVo. I have a new premier/HD and an old series 2, but I thought that wouldnt matter in terms of MRV. (beyond the HD stuff)
> I cannot transfer recordings from ANY channel, including NBC, CBS, ABC, etc., they all have a red slash symbol.
> I feel like something is wrong...
> 
> Any thoughts?


Not much you can do other than complain to cable company about the excessive flagging and complain to TiVo about their MRV copy vs. streaming implementation.

I use OTA whenever possible to avoid the cable co excessive flagging.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

turbobozz said:


> I use OTA whenever possible to avoid the cable co excessive flagging.


I thought it was illegal for the cable companies to flag OTA stations.


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## jacknife76 (Apr 20, 2010)

But what am I to complain about, exactly? Technically, they have the CCI set at 0x00 for the standard channels, but I still get the circle-slash symbol when I try to transfer (except, as I have said, the old recordings from DTV).

If by flag, you mean the 7day/24hour thing, I have only seen that once so far, with Law & Order CI on USA, which I find strange b/c there are always repeats. Maybe that is why. Although, then you would have to set the season pass to allow repeats. But I digress.

So... I still am not sure where to go from here, everything points to us being allowed to transfer from TiVo to TiVo, from what I have read. But we can't. Could it be something with our wireless network and how we set it up?

Arg!


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## turbobozz (Sep 21, 2006)

gweempose said:


> I thought it was illegal for the cable companies to flag OTA stations.


I've had to switch some season passes over to OTA to allow MRV.
I don't know why or the legality behind the cable co flagging, but I'm very sure there are many threads somewhere on these forums here discussing it.


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## turbobozz (Sep 21, 2006)

jacknife76 said:


> But what am I to complain about, exactly? Technically, they have the CCI set at 0x00 for the standard channels, but I still get the circle-slash symbol when I try to transfer (except, as I have said, the old recordings from DTV).
> 
> If by flag, you mean the 7day/24hour thing, I have only seen that once so far, with Law & Order CI on USA, which I find strange b/c there are always repeats. Maybe that is why. Although, then you would have to set the season pass to allow repeats. But I digress.
> 
> ...


If you can see another tivo's recordings inyour NPL, then I would assume your network is fine.
The Tivos have to be on the same account, but it sounds like they are.

What to complain about? Not being able to use MRV on the TiVo. It won't get any fixes for you though.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

jacknife76 said:


> Both -- series 2 to premier and vice versa


That's weird. Because the S2 doesn't see the cable card flags, so the CCI byte is irrelivant to it. Setting CCI wouldn't stop a S2 recording from being avalible for transfer (since it's a recording of the analog output of your cable box)

Although IIRC it does refuse to transfer anything that was macrovision protected when recorded. Maybe the cable box is macrovision-ing everything?


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## whitepelican (Feb 15, 2005)

ferrumpneuma said:


> What kind of maintenance does this add? Does Tivo still phone home and operate as normal? Do the tweaks need to be redone after every phone call?


You have to know what you're doing at least a little bit to set everything up initially. After that, the Tivo works as normal. The only time the tweaks need to be redone is after a software upgrade.


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## jacknife76 (Apr 20, 2010)

Jonathan_S said:


> That's weird. Because the S2 doesn't see the cable card flags, so the CCI byte is irrelivant to it. Setting CCI wouldn't stop a S2 recording from being avalible for transfer (since it's a recording of the analog output of your cable box)
> 
> Although IIRC it does refuse to transfer anything that was macrovision protected when recorded. Maybe the cable box is macrovision-ing everything?


Yes, I know -- I saw that there was no CCI on the S2. (by the way, the 24hr/7day "flag" on that program was on the S2, as well)
We have no cable box on the premier, but, of course, on the S2.

I am totally confused as to why this would be. Sersiously, I went and tuned to every standard channel and all of them said 0x00. I feel calling Comcast will produce nothing, since they barely know what they are doing as it is. It took 3 people and 3 call-outs to get someone who knew how to even set up the TiVo so we could get our HD channels. Maybe they did something then. Hmmm, we only had a few recordings before they finally got the HD working. I wonder if we still have them, I should check the dates, see if those are available for transfer. We didnt have the wireless network set up before then, as we were waiting for routers.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

jacknife76 said:


> Yes, I know -- I saw that there was no CCI on the S2. (by the way, the 24hr/7day "flag" on that program was on the S2, as well)
> We have no cable box on the premier, but, of course, on the S2.
> 
> I am totally confused as to why this would be. Sersiously, I went and tuned to every standard channel and all of them said 0x00. I feel calling Comcast will produce nothing, since they barely know what they are doing as it is. It took 3 people and 3 call-outs to get someone who knew how to even set up the TiVo so we could get our HD channels. Maybe they did something then. Hmmm, we only had a few recordings before they finally got the HD working. I wonder if we still have them, I should check the dates, see if those are available for transfer. We didnt have the wireless network set up before then, as we were waiting for routers.


As as 3rd point of reference have you tried installing the (free) TiVo Desktop software on your computer? Does it also show that all those shows on both TiVos are non-transferable?


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## jacknife76 (Apr 20, 2010)

Jonathan_S said:


> As as 3rd point of reference have you tried installing the (free) TiVo Desktop software on your computer? Does it also show that all those shows on both TiVos are non-transferable?


We will try that. We just got a new computer, too 
Complete media overhaul, it seems. Waiting for airport stuff from Mac... Will try and let you know.
Thanks for the help!


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## jacknife76 (Apr 20, 2010)

So, interesting finding last night. I finally got a chance to look into the copyright restriction on the S2. I assumed it had the "no" symbol for the same reason as our Premier (claims copyright issue, even tho the CCI is set to 0x00 on those channels). 

On the S2, I actually went into the specific show info and saw the explanation given for no-transfer was that it was an HD recording. Then I went back out and looked at recordings and dates on all programs and realized that the S2 will allow me to transfer from the Premier for all other than HD recordings. I guess I didn't pay enough attention to that, assuming the S2 was doing the same thing as the Premier.

But I still can't transfer from the S2 to the Premier, even on supposedly non-copyrighted recordings.

(For those of you that are interested!)
Oh, and the computer shows the same (non-transferable)


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## msteele (May 30, 2008)

I've got Comcast in Montgomery County, MD, and at some point in the past week, they turned on the copy protect flag on a whole bunch of non-premium, non-HD channels. I know they at least got Comedy Central, Cartoon Network, Nick, E!, Travel, and HGTV, because we record a lot on those stations, and I can no longer transfer them with the TiVo-to-go software this week. No more TV shows on my iPod during my commutes. 

Is there any point to calling Comcast to complain? Will they do anything, or will I just end up pulling my hair out trying to explain the technical issue to whatever call center employee I get routed to?


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

I would go this route. I believe Comcast corporate policy is not to protect anything but the premiums and a few movie channels.


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## perilousp69 (Nov 18, 2003)

Fios in Seattle just changed to Frontier and now tons of cable shows are being blocked. Nothing was blocked under Verizon. I know it's the fault of the content providers, but I'll still miss it. 

I've been using Tivo Desktop for years to get my shows to my iPod Touch and now to my HTC Hero. These cable morons don't seem to realize that 

1) I'm more likely to watch their shows on the go than at home (wife doesn't watch Futurama, Colbert)

2) I generally skip the commercials less when I'm in a mobile environment.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

perilousp69 said:


> Fios in Seattle just changed to Frontier and now tons of cable shows are being blocked. Nothing was blocked under Verizon. I know it's the fault of the content providers, but I'll still miss it.


It didn't start w/Frontier switchover that happened on 7/1/10. It started around 6/7/10. Phantom Gremlin discovered it on 6/10/10. See http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=450307.

VZ's replies (or lack of) have been useless. Please help up fight this battle w/Frontier/VZ now.

Contact to your VZ/Frontier, your regulatory body, HDNET, and Current TV (assuming the latter two are protected for you).


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## vurbano (Apr 20, 2004)

If you want MRV then sell the tivo and get moxi. Tivo shows no signs of integrating streaming into their boxes. I still am not convinced that FIOS CP will be applied in all regions but if it is that is probably the plan.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

vurbano said:


> If you want MRV then sell the tivo and get moxi. Tivo shows no signs of integrating streaming into their boxes. I still am not convinced that FIOS CP will be applied in all regions but if it is that is probably the plan.


Maybe things will change with the Premiere. The Premiere has the horsepower to easily stream while the series 3 did not.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

vurbano said:


> If you want MRV then sell the tivo and get moxi. Tivo shows no signs of integrating streaming into their boxes.


For me, I don't care about MRV so whether TiVo changes its implementation is irrelevant. I don't have >1 active TiVo, let alone multiple ones that are networkable. (Series 2 SA is loaned out and I never had a USB Ethernet or Wi-Fi adapter anyway.)

I _do care_ about transferring the shows to my PC so that I can archive them to DVD +/-R in AVCHD format. I doubt Moxi's streaming implementation does anything to help my scenario.


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## tyrendo (Jul 3, 2010)

Have two S2 Tivos and was getting ready to purchase an S3 when started getting red flags on most programs I record. This makes Tivo about useless to me so won't purchase the S3. Was very frustrating having recorded programs deleted because I didn't watch them in the alloted time. We take extended vacations and programs I want to watch get deleted because of the time allotment. I enjoy cooking and was archiving some cooking shows that have recipes I may want to try sometime in the future but can no longer do this on Tivo.

My solution was to record shows on my computer and stream to the TV with a media extender. Thus I can watch when I want to. And with the programs on my computer I can save them to DVD for future use.


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## waltinvt (Mar 15, 2009)

We replaced our Charter box with a Tivo Premier about 6 months ago and up until recently could transfer anything to the PC without any copy protection flags. Now just about everything is flagged. I contacted Tivo and they blame it on the cable company.

One of the big reasons I went with Tivo was the ability to transfer and watch recorded shows on other platforms in the house.

I believe this is deliberate by Charter because customer owned Tivos have cut into their own DVR leasing scam so much. This move takes away one of the big advantages Tivo had over the SA cable box.


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## waltinvt (Mar 15, 2009)

vurbano said:


> If you want MRV then sell the tivo and get moxi. Tivo shows no signs of integrating streaming into their boxes. I still am not convinced that FIOS CP will be applied in all regions but if it is that is probably the plan.


Hey Vurb, how goes it? I tried to get Moxi for over a year but turned out our local Charter is incompatible, so buying our own Tivo was the only alternative to leasing their Scientific Atlanta box. At first everything was transferable from Tivo to PC but Charter apparently flipped the switch and now just about everything is flagged. Tivo is still far superior to the SA box but loosing the ability to transfer shows plus no access to cable's VOD is a big factor.


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## wtkflhn (May 12, 2006)

missor88 said:


> Cox Cable in New Orleans has begun copy-right protecting ABC shows, which is HUGELY inconvenient.
> 
> It's my understanding that they're not supposed to do this with local channels, but they clearly are. I'm relatively certain they are doing it with all the major network shows (NBC, CBS and FOX), as I was looking at a stream of copy-right protected notices next to a bunch of my shows several weeks ago, but now that most network shows are in rerun, I haven't had many on my TiVo to really examine the situation more thoroughly. All this chatter made me finally just go and check, and confirm the ABC issue, since some of those shows are still on the TiVo. For example, V and Eastwick. All recordings from my local PBS station are also copyright protected.
> 
> I know the suggested solution for this issue regarding local channels is to call your cable provider, but, as inconvenient as it is, I don't think my annoyance level with this issue is high enough to warrant it. Yet. I'm still seething with anger from a few years ago when they told me that using any cable box other than one rented from them was illegal, leading to an epic battle, so I'm not sure I'm ready for the stress of this fight.


 It must be something wierd in New Orleans, I'm looking at a digital copy from ch 711, WGNO (ABC) and it is copying just fine! I'm on Cox in Metairie, LA.

DON H


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