# Tuning Adapter not working!



## iconoclast (Oct 27, 2014)

I think this is a Cox issue rather than a TiVo issue but, Im posting hoping someone has had this issue & can advise. 

When I bought my TiVo end of October & turned in my Cox DVR & picked up my Cable Card, I was surprised to find I required a Tuning Adapter (Cisco) from Cox. While unhappy I needed another piece of equipment, I followed instructions for setup & had Cox pair it & it has worked well until today. TiVo did not record a show @ 5PM & History said reason was...no signal. I checked that channel & it was not working. I checked all my channels & listed 38 HD channels not working! All the other ones are working just fine. (I only watch HD channels.) Yes, my TiVo channels are set up correctly.

TiVo message said Tuner not communicating & to restart it or call Cable Company. 
I tried turning Tuning Adapter (T.A.) off/on & even unplug/replug. No help. 

I call Cox & they said they unpaired & repaired & had me unplug both TiVo & T.A. for 30 min. I plug back in & same problem! I tried unplug/replug USB cable & off/on T.A. again--no help.

I went to Tuner diagnostics on TiVo & it says no Tuner connected!

I check Cable Card Diagnostics & it says no/wrong cable card!

I call Cox again & get the Cable Card department & they say nothing they can do, from their end it shows System is paired. I should wait 3 days till Saturday & have Cox technician come out to troubleshoot. Finally I convince him to unpair/repair system again & I again unplug TiVo & T.A. & now I am waiting 30 min. 

I missed & am missing several recordings as I deal with this.

I think I am trapped. With TiVo I must use Cox & if Cox has junk T.A. & cable cards, I have few options. Cannot switch to satellite & use the TiVo.

Unless I can fix it tonight, I plan to go to Cox Th & make then give me new (another used) T.A. & cable card. 

Any suggestions?


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

It does not make sense why it wold work properly for 30 days and now even a full unplug-reboot cannot get the TA working, perhaps the TA is bad, What are your signal levels?

I would probably replace both it and the power supply. Make sure the USB cable did not slip out, try a new USB cable too. Make sure they give you a TA sealed in plastic, that still has the plastic across the face plate. There is also a Manufacture Date on the bottom ask for the newest date.

After getting a new Tuning Adapter, (CableCARD also) , it will need to download the latest firmware, which may take 20min. let it just sit for at least that long.

The Cisco Tuning Adapter needs to be unplugged and rebooted about every 3 to 4 weeks. It may run for longer but chances are it won't.

I check channels 100-105 and 1137 daily to see if the TA is working.

I recommend rebooting the TA every 3-4 weeks, Some put the TA on a programmable lamp timer, some even reboot them every day.

I wrote the following helpful info:
Cisco Tuning Adapter Status Troubleshooting

Here is a listing of most all the HD channels you need the Tuning Adapter to receive. I have left out most of the Sports Pak channels that are all SDV in the 1300's and 1400's

*Cox Phoenix SDV HD Channels* *Updated: Jan 30, 2015*
1007	-	Cox7HD
1020	-	KTAZ - Telemundo HD
1025	-	Spike HD
1029	-	MTV HD
1031	-	FS1HD
1038	-	HLNHD
1040	-	AETVHDP
1045	-	TruTV HD
1055	-	Galavision HD
1056	-	SCCER
1057	-	Animal Planet HD
1058	-	TVLand P HD
1061	-	HSTRYHP
1063	-	MSNBC HD
1066	-	MoviePlex HD
1067	-	FXXPHD
1068	-	FBNHD
1071	-	Turner Classic Movies HD
1072	-	National Geographic P HD
1073	-	Fox Sports Arizona Plus HD
1074	-	TVGNHD (POPHDP)
1076	-	UDNHD 
1094	-	FBNHD
1098	-	QVCHD
1100	-	OWNHD
1101	-	HUB HD
1102	-	Science HD
1103	-	Destination America HD
1104	-	Investigation Discovery HD
1106	-	Nick Jr HD
1130	-	Hallmark Channel HD
1131	-	LMN HD
1133	-	DIY HD
1134	-	Cooking HD
1135	-	FYI HD
1136	-	H2 HD
1137	-	BBC America HD
1138	-	Disney XD HD
1144	-	Nat Geo Wild HD
1157	-	Fuse HD
1180	-	WEtv HD
1181	-	Esquire HD
1202	-	HBO Signature HD
1203	-	HBO Family HD
1205	-	HBO Zone HD
1210	-	HBO East Feed HD
1211	-	HBO2 East Feed HD
1213	-	SCCR HD
1221	-	MoreMax HD
1222	-	ActionMax HD
1223	-	ThrillerMax HD
1225	-	CineMax East Feed HD
1226	-	MoreMax East Feed HD
1230	-	5StarMax HD
1242	-	Showtime Showcase HD
1243	-	Showtime Extreme HD
1250	-	The Movie Channel HD
1261	-	Starz Edge HD
1262	-	Starz In Black HD
1263	-	Starz East Feed HD
1264	-	Starz Kids & Family HD
1265	-	Starz Cinema HD
1266	-	Starz Comedy HD
1295	-	Epix HD 
1299	-	NFL RedZone HD
1305	-	MLB Network HD
1308	-	NBA TV HD
1310	-	NHL Network HD
1312	-	CBS Sports Network HD
1315	-	Tennis Channel HD
1320	-	BTN HD
1330	-	ESPN U HD
1331	-	ESPNews HD
1337	-	Gol TV HD
1362	-	Epix HD
1364	-	Encore HD
1365	-	Encore Suspense HD
1366	-	Encore Classic HD
1385	-	IFC HD
1387	-	SUNDHD
1388	-	IndiePlex HD
1389	-	RetroPlex HD
1390	-	Hallmark Movie Channel HD
1401	-	KFPH-CA UM HD
1402	-	Galavision HD
1404	-	KTAZ - Telmun HD
1406	-	KTVW - Uni HD
1426	-	Cartoon Network HD
1440	-	Gol TV HD
1651	-	NBA League Pass/MLS Direct Kick HD
1671	-	MLB Extra Innings/NHL Center Ice HD
1672	-	MLB Extra Innings/NHL Center Ice HD2
1677	-	BTN HD Overflow
1692	-	Fox Soccer Plus HD
1699	-	NFL RedZone HD 
1900	-	MCPLAYHD
=================================
The following SD channels also need a Tuning Adapter:
*Cox Phoenix SDV SD Channels	*
45	-	TruTV
52	-	E!
55	-	Gala
58	-	TVLand
59	-	BET
66	-	MoviePlex
67	-	FXX
69	-	NBCSN
70	-	Weather Channel
71	-	TCM
73	-	FSAZTUC
74	-	TVGN (POP)
76	-	UDN
82	-	AZNC
90	-	KTVKDT
==================================
*Most every SD channel above 100 is also SDV* needing a Tuning Adapter.


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## iconoclast (Oct 27, 2014)

After the 2nd Cox unpair/repair via phone, & waiting 30 minutes, it worked! Got all channels back! Now Cable Card Diagnostics (Dx) shows Cable Card 1 & T.A. Dx shows software v. STA1.0.0_1520_LR_F.2001

Thanks so much for your helpful, detailed reply, CoxInPhx!
I set up my TiVo 10-24-2014 so, it worked ~ 5-5 weeks. I had never restarted the T.A.

I followed your Troubleshooting instructions & my Level is listed in 2 places; -6 & further down -5 (dBmV) I also see that I do have the latest Firmware for T.A. (The 1st Cox tech had said that she updated it but, I dont know if she did or what it may have been b4 her update)

Virtually all the channels you list were missing when I had the T.A. problem. I had written down my missing channels & compared with yor list & I did not have 1052 listed as missing but, this could have been an error on my part. 

I plan to reset my T.A. monthly according to your instructions. 

The Cisco STA 1520 I received from Cox on 10-24-14 was clearly used even though they re-shrikwrapped it. (Scratches & smudges, etc.) 11-26-2008 is the date on the unit.

I will call tomorrow to see if I can swap it for a new or at least much more recent unit. I will also swap out the power supply. I assume the Power supply is also from 2008. Hopefully, they will allow this. When I get the new T.A. home I assume I will again need to call Cox so they can pair it to my TiVo.

I think I will leave my TV set on channel 1025 so, I can see daily if it is working. Ill make a note. I appreciate all the tips. If I can discover the T.A. Not working early in the day, it will give me time to fix it b4 that evenings shows begin to record.


So, after all that if I do experience the same lost channels issue again, which steps should I do & in what order? Should my 1st step be to immediately reset T.A?
Tuning Adapter Reset:
1. Unplug the USB of the TA to the TiVo
2. Unplug the AC to the TA (not the TiVo)
3. Wait three minutes
4. Plug in the Power to the TA BUT NOT the USB
5. Wait three minutes. The TA should on it's own acquire its IP address (changes in the rate of flashing of the green led from slow to fast).
6. Plug in the USB to the TA from the TiVo

Should I restart the TiVo?
Will I always need to call Cox for them to unpair/repair & then Unplug TiVo, Unplug T.A. Wait 30 min & replug?

Will I ever need to turn T.A. off/on or always unplug/replug instead? 

When this 1st happened TiVo message on screen said to turn off/on T.A but when I pressed front power switch, nothing happened. The green light remained on steady. Only after I unplugged/replugged did light go out & then on flashing & then I could turn on & of via power switch. 

Regards,

Steve


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

If everything is working now, I would NOT go through the process of getting a newer TA or CableCARD, newer does not mean better. Getting everything Re-Paired may be more pain than it is worth. Only replace it if the TA stops working more often than 30 days on a regular basis. You may also need to have Cox adjust your signal levels. Mine work fine and are very low averaging -5 to -9 for the FDC, and -1 to -5 on the Tuners.

Cox AZ has been doing a lot of channel remapping and maintenance since the firmware update to F.2001, Oct 6, 2014, so the TAs have been failing more frequently than normal, and offline for periods of time in the overnight hours, sometimes requiring a reboot the next morning, to get then functioning again.

When leaving a tuner on a SDV channel (1025) the channel will eventually time-out and when you turn on the TV, just Channel-Up, Channel Down to see if it returns. If it does return the TA is working correctly.

If you do lose SDV channels again, just unplug the power to the TA, for 30secs and plug back in. It should reconnect to the TiVo in about 10-15mins. If it does not unplug again. The power button on the front does not fully reboot the TA. I never touch that button.

Generally, there is no need to reboot the TiVo. Although I do reboot my TiVos about every 30 days.


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

It's a good rule of thumb to power cycle Cisco TA's every couple weeks. If left alone for extended periods, they inevitably lock-up and make you miss recordings until you notice and reboot it.


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## iconoclast (Oct 27, 2014)

I am going to reset the T.A. each month using CoxInPhxs instructions.
I will check daily for channel 1025 (SpikeTV) which required the T.A. to receive.

If this loss of channels happens again, I will go to Cox & insist on a new T.A. & power supply (Or at least a newer one)

I dislike the fact that I require a T.A!

Regards,

Steve


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## delgadobb (Mar 6, 2004)

Tuning Adapters are the devil's work. I've missed dozens (if not hundreds) of recordings over time due to a crashed/frozen tuning adapter. You only find out after the fact when you have blank recordings & get error message(s) about a channel not being available. 

Funny thing is - I've had numerous conversations with techs out to my home (both direct Cox employees & contractors). To a fault, all say some variation of 'Tuning Adapters are junk', calling it 'crap technology' - all with the caveat that they won't say it on the record cuz they don't want to lose their job. The employees seem to have a universal disdain for them, but I suppose one way to look at them is job security; as long as TAs are in the field, techs will stay busy  

I've made numerous rants to Cox about this & it probably falls on deaf ears. My argument is if they're moving towards MPEG-4, why not just be done with it & get rid of Tuning Adapters, which are clearly a drag on their staff & cause confusion with all but the most adept employees? My TivoHDs can't receive MPEG-4 channels, but I can live with that if it gets rid of Tuning Adapters - my setup was basically trouble-free when it was just cable cards before they started using Tuning Adapters. 

Funny story - when I asked why I wasn't getting some channels upstairs on my Tivo HD that came in on the Roamio, Cox insisted on multiple tech visits. I told them flat-out I thought it was MPEG-4 channels, but wanted to know for sure as it may affect what premium channels I order (i.e. the first 2 HBO HD channels are normal, the remainder are MPEG-4). Not once but twice the supervisor (two different ones) yelled at the tech. Then they got in an argument with me insisting first that the TIVO was broken; next was the cablecard & tuning adapter were faulty & needed replacement. Eventually, the case got escalated & engineering confirmed what I told them I thought it was in the first place - the channels are broadcast differently, which equated to MPEG-4. Techs say they are 'Contour' channels & I can't get them on Tivo (which is incorrect and, as I understand the FCC stuff, illegal - since cablecard customers need to be offered the same options available with their own hardware - correct me on this if I've missed details.) The Roamio gets the 'Contour' or MPEG-4 channels just fine. Internal Cox lingo seems to be they're 'Contour' as that's the new marketing stuff - basically, the channels are MPEG-4 & the Contour hardware supports it, while the old boxes don't. Since they wouldn't escalate me to engineering for a simple conversation, Cox wound up scheduling multiple tech visits & several hours of multiple employees' time to confirm what I suggested to them in the first place. Ain't life grand? 

What I've found most useful in managing the Tuning Adapters is to set a routine to reboot them every 2 weeks, more often if I think of it. My Tuning Adapters (replaced multiple times) still lock up every couple weeks or so - occasionally more frequently. I unplug the power & USB connections for 30 seconds, then reconnect & give it time to restart. Don't ever assume that everything is A-OK - I make duplicate recordings on my Roamios in case one of the Tuning Adapters locks up. This has helped me to minimize missed recordings more recently, although it's silly that I have to do this.


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## iconoclast (Oct 27, 2014)

Yep, Now I am worried about the T.A. Waiting for it to malfunction. When I had originally called TiVo & called Cox to verify that TiVo would work & I just need Cable Card, neither said anything about a T.A!

Im surprised Cox didnt since I may have stayed with Cox DVR if I had known. And this would be w/o knowing about the obvious T.A. problems. Just not wanting to have an extra box. 

I wonder if there is a decent chance that the need for T.A will not continue. Can the cable card be changed/updated to eliminate the need for T.As? Is TiVo the only brand of DVR that requires T.A? Why do Scientific Atlanta (& other?) brand DVRs not need T.A?


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

iconoclast said:


> Yep, Now I am worried about the T.A. Waiting for it to malfunction. When I had originally called TiVo & called Cox to verify that TiVo would work & I just need Cable Card, neither said anything about a T.A!
> 
> Im surprised Cox didnt since I may have stayed with Cox DVR if I had known. And this would be w/o knowing about the obvious T.A. problems. Just not wanting to have an extra box.
> 
> I wonder if there is a decent chance that the need for T.A will not continue. Can the cable card be changed/updated to eliminate the need for T.As? Is TiVo the only brand of DVR that requires T.A? Why do Scientific Atlanta (& other?) brand DVRs not need T.A?


Don't sweat it..... Manually unplug and reboot the Tuning Adapter every 3 weeks and you should not have an issue, I rarely ever do. If you are really concerned just get a Programmable Timer and set it to turn off/on every few days for 1 minute.

All retail CableCARD devices are One-Way only devices, hence the term Uni-Directional Digital Cable Product (UDCP), and need a Tuning Adapter to provide 2-way communication for Switched Digital Video.

Cable Co, STB/DVRs are designed as Two-Way communication receivers/transmitters.

The reason TiVo and other Retail CableCARD devices do not build the hardware into their devices is the Cable Cos will not allow 3rd party retail devices to communicate with the cable plant. Also, there is more than one standard for back channel communication with the cable plant.

SA/Cisco uses Out of band frequencies and DAVIC
SA/Cisco can also be configured to run in DOCSIS Mode
Motorola also has their own standards

TiVo petitioned the FCC to establish an IP standard for SDV tuning requests, the Cable Cos fought it and nothing happened. TiVo currently does have an IP/HTTP software based solution for SDV tuning requests if any Cable provider wants to get on board.


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## iconoclast (Oct 27, 2014)

OK, so it is not really a technical limitation rather the cable companies deliberately want to make it more difficult or customers to use TiVo.

If, tomorrow, Cox relented & allowed TiVO to communicate directly, my TiVo would still require a T.A. However, future TiVos, built with the correct hardware, would no longer need the T.A. Unless TiVo provided an update kit, which would probably void any warranty.


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## delgadobb (Mar 6, 2004)

iconoclast said:


> OK, so it is not really a technical limitation rather the cable companies deliberately want to make it more difficult or customers to use TiVo.
> 
> If, tomorrow, Cox relented & allowed TiVO to communicate directly, my TiVo would still require a T.A. However, future TiVos, built with the correct hardware, would no longer need the T.A. Unless TiVo provided an update kit, which would probably void any warranty.


The key is it looks like it's a moot point.

Switched Digital Video (SDV) is a way to shoe-horn more channels into the same (theoretical) bandwidth. The tuning adapter allowed them to use SDV. Now that Cox is using MPEG-4 (some of them will call it H.264), I haven't seen any new HD channels (of which I'm aware) come on-line with SDV. If that's the long-term play, I wish they'd commit to one thing & just phase out SDV in favor of MPEG-4. I've talked to some supervisors at Cox & get no argument; unfortunately, you can hear crickets chirping as well, so I'm guessing they don't want to acknowledge anything so they can protect their job.

Obviously, there would need to be an infrastructure shift, but it seems like Cox is remapping and/or renaming channels almost daily (my Tivos CONSTANTLY get messages about lineup changes.) If they can do that, they can also plan for the long-haul to get rid of Tuning Adapters & lessen the load on their techs.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

delgadobb said:


> <snip>
> Now that Cox is using MPEG-4 (some of them will call it H.264), I haven't seen any new HD channels (of which I'm aware) come on-line with SDV.
> <snip>


Cox AZ moved all the Contour HD (MPEG4/H.264) channels to SDV several months ago, almost all new HD channels are now both MPEG4/H.264 and SDV.


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## iconoclast (Oct 27, 2014)

This gets technical. Seems the goal is to increase number of HD channels & minimize bandwidth usage while transitioning to MPEG4.

I found:
TiVo & Cable's Inevitable MPEG4 Transition
http://zatznotfunny.com/2014-08/tivo-cables-inevitable-mpeg4-transition/

And:

During the transition from MPEG-2 to MPEG-4, it will not be possible, due to bandwidth constraints, to broadcast all channels in both MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 format. However, the switched digital video (SDV) system can be used to manage the transition from MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 and to minimize the bandwidth needed by the system until the transition completes.

MPEG-4 TRANSITION USING SWITCHED DIGITAL VIDEO
Download the PDF

http://www.nctatechnicalpapers.com/Paper/2008/2008-mpeg-4-transition-using-switched-digital-video


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## iconoclast (Oct 27, 2014)

I just got off the phone with Cox In Phoenix. The phone support guy claims 3-2015 Cox is finally switching to all digital & there will be no need for the Tuning Adapter with my TiVo & I will be able to get all my channels! 

Sounds too good to be true! He said people will be able to get channels by just hooking the wall cable to their TVs.

I had called bc TiVo had given me a message that there have been channel changes today; 1040 (AETVHD) & 1061(HSTRYHD) deleted 
And the following added; 1036 (HSTRYHD), 1040 (AETVHD), 1099 (IONSPHD), 1328 (LNGHRNH), 1387 (SUNDHD)

Well in the same message TiVo says 1040 is deleted & added?! I check & 1040 is still A&E & seems to work as it always did. I check 1061 & it has no programing & Pawn Stars is not set to record as typical on Thursdays. Guide shows To Be Announced for 1061! 1036 is showing CNN programming but, is listed as History Channel in the guide?! 

I did a communicate with Network session & then restarted the TiVo.

Guide still shows To Be Announced for 1061! But, under My Shows it seems to be recoding Pawn Stars. But just the 2nd new episode & missed the 1st. 
In the Guide channel 1036 is actually listed TWICE (wtf?!) Once as CNN with CNN programming listed on the right & once as History with History channel programing listed on the right! I had changed my Season pass for Pawn Stars from 1061 only to any channel so, maybe the current recording is from one of the two 1036s? 

Cox said I have no channel changes & 3-2015 is when some will change with the move to all digital. I had thought all cable companies, including Cox had done the switch to digital some time back when the government was subsidizing OTA digital antennas for some people. 

I think TiVo gave me misinformation on these channel changes but, dont understand why. I suspect Cox has also given me misinformation.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

iconoclast said:


> I suspect Cox has also given me misinformation.


Of that I have no doubt.



iconoclast said:


> He said people will be able to get channels by just hooking the wall cable to their TVs.


Not unless they are sending through QAM channels in the clear (which they won't) or if your TV has a CableCard slot, which almost none do.



iconoclast said:


> I had thought all cable companies, including Cox had done the switch to digital some time back when the government was subsidizing OTA digital antennas for some people.


OTA broadcasters were required no switch to digital, cable companies were not. And they subsidized converter boxes, not antennas.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

Several items to address here:

1)
Cox is starting a transition to all Digital, eliminating the Analog broadcasts. It will be done market by market over the next 1-2 years. Arizona most likely will be near the end, since it is Cox's largest market.

The first and only market that has been announced is New England, specifically, Connecticut.
http://www.cox.com/all-digital/cox-all-digital.cox

Going all Digital does not mean eliminating SDV and Tuning Adapters, Cox has made a significant investment in SDV tech and the saved bandwidth reclaimed from Analog will be used to deploy Gigabit HSI via DOCSIS 3.1 in the next few years.

2)
There were several mistakes made in the Guide data provided to Tribune Media from Cox this week. I have submitted the corrections and hope they will be fixed soon.
TiVo Channel Line Up issues should be reported here:
http://www.tivo.com/lineup.html and [email protected]

ION SD was moved from Channel 17 to 18, but the Guide data has not been updated and is still showing Channel 17

ION HD was moved from Channel 1017 to 1018, but the Guide data has not been updated and is still showing Channel 1017

1040 AETVHD (East Feed) was switched to 1040 AETVHDP (Pacific Feed). No change in Channel number.

1061 HSTRYHD (East Feed) was switched to HSTRYHP (Pacific Feed). Here a mistake was made which put the Guide data on 1036, which is already CNNHD, it should have stayed on 1061.

1099 IONSPHD, (which is ION Satellite Pacific Feed, for markets without a local ION affiliate), I believe this was a mistake related to the swich of ION from 17 to 18 and 1017 to 1018.

The rest of the changes are all correct.


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## iconoclast (Oct 27, 2014)

OK, You're correct. It was converter boxes people were getting for nearly "free"

http://www.fcc.gov/guides/dtv-transition-did-not-require-cable-systems-switch-digital

I guess we'll see big changes 3-2015 from Cox. I still think that there WERE some channel changes today. I don't see how Cox can continue to have 2 different channels; History & CNN broadcast on channel 1036!

I wonder if I really will be able to lose that @#$!!**&%!! T.A. come March?

Update 12-12-2014, 1 AM:
Both 1036s listed in my TiVo guide are broadcasting CNN despite one supposedly being History. My Pawn Stars recoding WAS from CH 1036 & in fact recorded CNN. 1061 still displays no programming in the channel guide yet, when I tune to it, it does show as History channel with normal History Ch. programing. I communicated with TiVi Network once again & still no changes.

It is now looking as if all the errors are with TiVo &/or the T.A. Not Cox.
Cox does not provide the Channel guide for TiVo.

The idea that History channel 1061 is deleted & 1036 is now History channel (Instead of 1036 being CNN) is denied by Cox & only TiVo sees to buy into this nonsense.


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## iconoclast (Oct 27, 2014)

So, it seems that TiVO was correct in reporting those changes & CoxinPhx explains why TiVo reported 1040 was both deleted & added & I saw no change. 

The Cox rep misinformed me when I called & the hoped for elimination of the T.A. is not to be. 

Hopefully Cox will fix the History 1061 fiasco & my TiVo channel guide will get the correct info soon.


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## sangs (Jan 1, 2003)

Some of you people have the patience of a saint. I have to say, if FiOS ever decides that tuning adapters need to be used, I'm either dumping them or selling my Tivos to use the FiOS equipment. I have very little patience and think these tuning adapter nightmare stories would make my head explode.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

sangs said:


> Some of you people have the patience of a saint. I have to say, if FiOS ever decides that tuning adapters need to be used, I'm either dumping them or selling my Tivos to use the FiOS equipment. I have very little patience and think these tuning adapter nightmare stories would make my head explode.


I'd rather not have to have a tuning adapter, but I will say that my Cisco tuning adapter on TWC usually works just fine as long as I restart it every 3 to 4 weeks. If it comes down to no tuning adapter or more HD channels, I'd choose more HD channels.


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## iconoclast (Oct 27, 2014)

CoxInPHX said:


> There were several mistakes made in the Guide data provided to Tribune Media from Cox this week. I have submitted the corrections and hope they will be fixed soon.
> 
> TiVo Channel Line Up issues should be reported here:
> http://www.tivo.com/lineup.html and [email protected]
> ...


I reported the still unresolved issue to both using your 2 links. Probably should not have reported to Zap2it since I dont use their service. 
1036 is listed TWICE on Guide! Once correctly as CNN & also as HSTRY (Incorrect) Forced Communication with TiVo Network multiple times last 12 hours & restarted TiVo & no help. HSTRY channel is received but, under 1061(HSTRY correct channel #) guide shows no programming.
I started this under my original T.A. post bc Cox told me that with the 3-2015 digital conversion there will be no need for T.A. with my TiVo. I now think that information is incorrect & since the channel guide snafu is 1036 & 1061 which are channels that do not require the T.A., This side issue is off topic. If not resolved soon, Ill create a new thread.


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## XIBM (Mar 9, 2013)

icon When Charter went all digital in my area I read on a forum that the TA was no longer needed. I unplugged mine and everything comes in fine except one channel which my guess is a CC channel mapping error. So if Cox is using the same head end and implementing as Charter did with all digital, no TA will be required. I have the charter silver package which includes HBO Cinemax etc.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

iconoclast said:


> I reported the still unresolved issue to both using your 2 links. *Probably should not have reported to Zap2it since I don't use their service.*


www.Zap2It.com is Tribune Media Services, Tribune Media Services is the Guide data provider for TiVo, so if Zap2It has it wrong, then TiVo will have it wrong.

Zap2It.com, before their website redesign, used to have a very handy form to directly report Channel Line-Up issues. Reporting to Zap2It.com used to get a resolution much quicker than going through TiVo. However, now all website feedback/email goes through [email protected], and I wonder if they even pass along the issues to the proper department. I always used to get an email confirmation that the info was received and being investigated, now it is just a generic automated reply.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

I see now what happened with History HD and ION TV HD

Tribune Media got Phoenix, mixed up with Tucson.
http://www.cox.com/residential/tv/channel-lineup.cox

In Tucson
1036 is HistoryHD and 
1099 was added as the ION Satellite feed, since Tucson does not have a local affiliate.


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## iconoclast (Oct 27, 2014)

Hmmmn, 

XIBM was able to get rid of T.A after Charter went digital. CoxinPhx (Who I think works as a technician for Cox) seems certain Cox customers will NOT be able to get rid of T.A after Cox goes digital ~3-2015. 

So, my 1061/1036 channel mix up (which I assume affects all Cox customers with TiVo) is apparently due to a Tribune Media error. But, they do not appear to be in any hurry to fix it! Until they do I am unable to set recordings for 1061 unless I do so manually, knowing the exact date & start/stop times like one does with a VCR.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

iconoclast said:


> Hmmmn,
> 
> XIBM was able to get rid of T.A after Charter went digital. CoxinPhx (Who I think works as a technician for Cox) seems certain Cox customers will NOT be able to get rid of T.A after Cox goes digital ~3-2015.


Once Charter goes all digital, I'm sure they will probably get rid of a lot of the SDV channels, but some of the lesser-watched channels will probably still be on SDV. If none of the channels you care about are on SDV, then you can disconnect the tuning adapter anytime you want.


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## XIBM (Mar 9, 2013)

tarheelblue I have a digital box from Charter and I cross checked all the channels it received vs Tivo without TA and they were all there except a sd version of a channel I have in HD and one HD channel that I get in sd. They have been making a lot of channel changes with the new all digital and I think it is just a channel map error on the CC. I have read elsewhere that Charter wants to get rid of the SDV stuff to simplify and make channel changing faster as going all digital gives them back a lot of bandwidth...


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

XIBM said:


> tarheelblue I have a digital box from Charter and I cross checked all the channels it received vs Tivo without TA and they were all there except a sd version of a channel I have in HD and one HD channel that I get in sd. They have been making a lot of channel changes with the new all digital and I think it is just a channel map error on the CC. I have read elsewhere that Charter wants to get rid of the SDV stuff to simplify and make channel changing faster as going all digital gives them back a lot of bandwidth...


That's great for you, so you can probably just chuck the tuning adapter in the closet. But I doubt you were able to check every single premium channel available, including all of the adult content channels and all foreign language channels, because I doubt you get them all in your TV package. Some of them are probably still SDV and would requrie a tuning adapter to receive.


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## XIBM (Mar 9, 2013)

tarheelblue32 said:


> That's great for you, so you can probably just chuck the tuning adapter in the closet. But I doubt you were able to check every single premium channel available, including all of the adult content channels and all foreign language channels, because I doubt you get them all in your TV package. Some of them are probably still SDV and would requrie a tuning adapter to receive.


True but I do have the silver mid level package that has 403 channels - HBO, Cinemax, Star, Discovery, DYI etc. and none of them are SDV.


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## iconoclast (Oct 27, 2014)

Unless Cox gets rid of the SDV channels, it appears I will require the T.A.

There are a few I watch regularly & some I occasionally watch but, I want to have: 
1025 - Spike HD
1029 - MTV HD
1031 - FS1HD
1052 - E! HD
1057 - Animal Planet HD
1058 - TVLand HD
1063 - MSNBC HD
1066 - MoviePlex HD
1067 - FXXHD
1068 - FBNHD
1071 - Turner Classic Movies HD
1072 - National Geographic HD
1102 - Science HD
1103 - Destination America HD
1104 - Investigation Discovery HD
1130 - Hallmark Channel HD
1137 - BBC America HD
1138 - Disney XD HD
1144 - Nat Geo Wild HD


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## iconoclast (Oct 27, 2014)

Ive been keeping channel set to an SDV channel so when l 1st turn on TiVo, I can see if T.A. has lost channels. Every few days I experience the following. Ch 1102, SDV channel, Channel temporarily not available I change to 1103, SDV channel, It is OK & back to 1102 & now it is also OK. As if the T.A. needs to wake up! It did this today. 1-3-2015 & I had just reset the T.A. yesterday for monthly maintenance/preventative!


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

iconoclast said:


> Ive been keeping channel set to an SDV channel so when l 1st turn on TiVo, I can see if T.A. has lost channels. Every few days I experience the following. Ch 1102, SDV channel, Channel temporarily not available I change to 1103, SDV channel, It is OK & back to 1102 & now it is also OK. As if the T.A. needs to wake up! It did this today. 1-3-2015 & I had just reset the T.A. yesterday for monthly maintenance/preventative!


It's possible there is some kind of timing out mechanism on the tuning adapter that would prevent you from locking in on a SDV channel indefinitely.


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## jwbelcher (Nov 13, 2007)

tarheelblue32 said:


> It's possible there is some kind of timing out mechanism on the tuning adapter that would prevent you from locking in on a SDV channel indefinitely.


Yea, there's an inactivity timeout. Cablelabs spec requires any user activity on the DVR to be reported to the TA - even if its a simple as pressing the info button. This prevents your SDV channel's bandwidth from being reclaimed while actively watching a tv program. The shortest I've noticed on my cable operator a channel being reclaimed was after 4 hours of inactivity. However, that's only if no one else is also watching that channel on your neighborhood's hub. If others are also actively watching that channel on your hub, it doesn't need to timeout your TA as there would be no bandwidth savings. It tries to be intelligent about when to timeout, its why you mostly see timeouts like this at night when no one on your hub is watching that channel.


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## iconoclast (Oct 27, 2014)

Interesting, So, what happens if many hrs. Inactivity (TV off overnight) And To Do list or Wish list has program to record on this SDV channel? Will it fail to record? To date my fix for no reception on Ch 1102 has been to either scroll up or down to another SDV channel (1101 or 1103) or sometimes I get a message to press select & it will try again to access that channel & that also has worked. Obviously, when unattended & TiVo tries to record ch 1102, after hours of inactivity, TiVo will do neither of these fixes. So, will TiVo record nothing or black screen?


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

iconoclast said:


> Interesting, So, what happens if many hrs. Inactivity (TV off overnight) And To Do list or Wish list has program to record on this SDV channel? Will it fail to record? To date my "fix" for no reception on Ch 1102 has been to either scroll up or down to another SDV channel (1101 or 1103) or sometimes I get a message to press select & it will try again to access that channel & that also has worked. Obviously, when unattended & TiVo tries to record ch 1102, after hours of inactivity, TiVo will do neither of these fixes. So, will TiVo record nothing or black screen?


You would probably get a blank recording in that situation. If you are intentionally setting tuners on certain channels, it is probably better practice to set all the tuners on non-SDV channels.


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## jwbelcher (Nov 13, 2007)

iconoclast said:


> Interesting, So, what happens if many hrs. Inactivity (TV off overnight) And To Do list or Wish list has program to record on this SDV channel? Will it fail to record? To date my "fix" for no reception on Ch 1102 has been to either scroll up or down to another SDV channel (1101 or 1103) or sometimes I get a message to press select & it will try again to access that channel & that also has worked. Obviously, when unattended & TiVo tries to record ch 1102, after hours of inactivity, TiVo will do neither of these fixes. So, will TiVo record nothing or black screen?


Since its aware the SDV channels been reclaimed (hence the prompt), it will automatically ask the TA to tune the channel again if a recording comes up. It will also tell the TA that its re-tuning it for a recording. You can see these statuses under the TA's diagnostics screen. You'll see something like below when browsing diagnostics and selecting SDV SESSION INFO A

SESSION-1
Name-Status: LTSID0-Idle
Session Id: 68ee969b781400000000
SamSvcId/Type: n/a
Source Id: 0
Act Time: n/a
Retries/Resends: 0/0
Retunes: 0
Tuner Status: Inactive
Tuner Use: n/a
Tv/Rec Rsrc: 0/0
SDV Freq: 0 MHz
LUA Tx Time: n/a
Last CCP Err: NoErr
Err Time: n/a

*LUA* - The time when the last user action was reported to the SDV server
*Tuner Use* - An indication of how the tuner is being used 

Main : tuner is being used for main TV display
Rec : tuner is being used for a scheduled recording

Here's a link to help understand the TA diagnostic screens : http://www.cisco.com/c/dam/en/us/td/docs/video/at_home/Set-Tops/STA1520/4025082_B.pdf


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## jwbelcher (Nov 13, 2007)

Also, from my experience, TiVo will use one of your secondary tuners for the recording before taking over the tuner your watching, even if its the same channel. The one exception is when all tuners are actively being used for recordings.


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## iconoclast (Oct 27, 2014)

It is very rare when all tuners are being used. Typically, 1 or 2 are being used, maybe 3-4 for 2 minutes when I have some programs set to record 1 min early & 1 min late. I almost never watch live TV. 
Until I had the channel loss issue, I just left whatever channel was last on set. The reason I now have 1102 or another SDV channel is when I 1st turn on TiVo & want to select something to watch among My Shows, I want to know if T.A. has again lost the SDV channels. 

Hopefully, with the monthly reset, it wont happen again but, this issue where it temporarily loses an SDV channel has me concerned & hating the need for the T.A. Even more!

I saved a PDF of the Dx guide in case I ever need it. 

Im not going to start setting each of the 6 tuners on specific stations. Not sure how or why Id even do that.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

iconoclast said:


> Hopefully, with the monthly reset, it wont happen again but, *this issue where it temporarily loses an SDV channel has me concerned & hating the need for the T.A. Even more!*


Even the STB/DVRs provided by Cox will time out occasionally on a SDV channel, This behavior is not limited to Tuning Adapters.
See the Following: http://forums.cox.com/search/defaul...ble+&sort=&defaultAskForumId=0&pi38=1&group=4

As noted above by *jwbelcher* a Scheduled Recording has it's own message to the TA, which tells it to basically re-tune the channel and stay on as long as it is recording.

A few SW updates back TiVo added a routine to attempt to re-tune SDV channels in the case of a failure the first time, I do not know if that routine is still in the current SW version. It seems it got removed at one point, and now possibly put back in.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

When I became aware that the Tuning Adapters were an inherently hit or miss proposition, (after paying well over $100 for worthless truck rolls), I asked the Cox CR whether people didn't get angry when they found a show wasn't recorded. She said "Depends on what the show was. We try to explain that's just the way it is. It's only TV."

Being lazy I'm just going to let my 2 year commitment period run out and put the unpleasant Cox TV experience behind me, though occasionally I just want to go ahead and pay the $2 to be rid of it. The irony is that with my top level of Internet from Cox, which is very good, the TV bundle deal is quite cheap. But the Tuning Adapter flakiness is just unendurable at any price.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

Wil said:


> When I became aware that the Tuning Adapters were an inherently hit or miss proposition, (after paying well over $100 for worthless truck rolls), I asked the Cox CR whether people didn't get angry when they found a show wasn't recorded. She said "Depends on what the show was. We try to explain that's just the way it is. It's only TV."
> 
> Being lazy I'm just going to let my 2 year commitment period run out and put the unpleasant Cox TV experience behind me, though occasionally I just want to go ahead and pay the $2 to be rid of it. The irony is that with my top level of Internet from Cox, which is very good, the TV bundle deal is quite cheap. But the Tuning Adapter flakiness is just unendurable at any price.


How often do you manually reboot the Tuning Adapter?

I find that every 3 weeks is sufficient to keep it 99.9% reliable.

Have you ever tried using a timer to reboot it every day?


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

CoxInPHX said:


> I find that every 3 weeks is sufficient to keep it 99.9% reliable.


I have found the exact same thing with my Cisco tuning adapter on TWC. A reboot every few weeks seems to keep the tuning adapter happy.


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## Kungfubarbie (Dec 8, 2014)

I wouldn't leave the channel on a "TA" channel when you turn it off because it will tune out and then not record your show. I have had the best luck making sure my tuners were on "regular" (cbs, abc, etc) channels when I turn it off. The recordings on the "TA" channels were more regular then.

Also, I keep an eye on the system info screen - GC, Indexing, and VCM dates. When I saw that they were more than a day or two out of sync, that is when I would restart my TA. These all seemed to work more or less, at least I stopped losing a lot of recordings and getting the "you are out of program info" message when it clearly was not.

I transfered to a Roamio right after Charter went all digital here in MA and it wouldn't get any channels until the card and the adapter were paired correctly, so I'm not holding my breath about getting rid of this monster. 

I also learned that every time they put in a new card, they HAVE to call the cable company to pair it and make sure they read you the numbers so you have the right ones. That turned out to be my big problem, they had paired the two tivos I had incorrectly. It only took 2 visits and 4 phone calls. *inserteyerolliconhere*


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## iconoclast (Oct 27, 2014)

CoxInPHX said:


> Even the STB/DVRs provided by Cox will time out occasionally on a SDV channel......
> 
> As noted above by *jwbelcher* a Scheduled Recording has it's own message to the TA, which tells it to basically re-tune the channel and stay on as long as it is recording. ......


Never had an issue like this with Cox DVRs in 5 1/2 years. I frequently recorded from 1025 SDV channel.

Hopefully the fact that "a Scheduled Recording has it's own message to the TA, which tells it to basically re-tune the channel" will not allow me to miss a recording.

Even though I leave the TiVo set to an SDV channel it has 5 other tuners which are mostly tuned to non SDV channels since most of my recordings are Non SDV channel programming.


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## gespears (Aug 10, 2007)

I have a question. I have two premier's with TAs in the living room. When the TAs fail, they both fail. It's never one then a few days later the other. What do you suppose allows for that? If I was a conspiracy man, I'd be wondering!


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

gespears said:


> I have a question. I have two premier's with TAs in the living room. When the TAs fail, they both fail. It's never one then a few days later the other. What do you suppose allows for that? If I was a conspiracy man, I'd be wondering!


Both TAs failing at the same time is not the usual pattern I experience. That said, between Sept and Dec 2014, I did experience quite a few occasions where all 3 TAs did fail at the same time, usually between midnight and 4am, the maintenance period. This usually happens when Cox makes a change to the channel mapping. There were several channel mapping changes made during that time.

Since December, I have not had any failures, but I have rebooted each TA every few weeks.

I do not believe in a conspiracy theory, I believe what happens is that the TAs do not get daily hits from the headend like the leased STBs do. The leased STBs get daily Guide data pushed to them and thus they do get a daily hit from the headend. That is probably the main difference, plus the leased STBs do have a separate channel map from the TA and CableCARD.

Cox has at least 4 separate channel mappings.
1) Leased equipment using the Rovi Guide
2) Leased equipment using the Contour Guide
3) Retail CableCARDs (for when the TA is not attached)
4) Tuning Adapters (the TA overrides the CableCARD when attached)


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## archers44 (Dec 23, 2004)

I've had a tuning adapter for about a year and never had this problem until about 2 months ago. Now it happens to me daily. I bought a timer to reset the tuning adapter daily but that didn't fix anything. 

Any other suggestions? It took 6 tuning adapters to get one that worked initially so I'm leery to get someone out to look at it. According to my Cox tech the warehouse was programming them incorrectly. The only reason I finally got one that worked was because he made the warehouse test it before he left (and he went through several to get one that worked).


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

CoxInPHX said:


> ........
> A few SW updates back TiVo added a routine to attempt to re-tune SDV channels in the case of a failure the first time, I do not know if that routine is still in the current SW version. It seems it got removed at one point, and now possibly put back in.


I'm suspecting it was put back in based on my experience:

I ran a TiVo HD on TWC with a TA for six years and frequently had the SDV tuning failure (fixable manually by a tune up/down). Four months ago I replaced the THD with a Roamio basic -- everything else the same. I haven't had a single SDV tuning failure so far. I still lose some or all channels every few weeks and have to power-cycle the TA but that's a different problem.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

archers44 said:


> I've had a tuning adapter for about a year and never had this problem until about 2 months ago. Now it happens to me daily. I bought a timer to reset the tuning adapter daily but that didn't fix anything.
> 
> Any other suggestions? It took 6 tuning adapters to get one that worked initially so I'm leery to get someone out to look at it. According to my Cox tech the warehouse was programming them incorrectly. The only reason I finally got one that worked was because he made the warehouse test it before he left (and he went through several to get one that worked).


The problem is most likely in the provisioning of your account or improper signaling from the Cox plant. I bet you didn't really have five bad TA's before. They just finally lucked onto the proper setup at Cox. CableCARD's frequently are incorrectly accused of being defective for the same type of reasons.


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## archers44 (Dec 23, 2004)

dlfl said:


> The problem is most likely in the provisioning of your account or improper signaling from the Cox plant. I bet you didn't really have five bad TA's before. They just finally lucked onto the proper setup at Cox. CableCARD's frequently are incorrectly accused of being defective for the same type of reasons.


I have no idea. I tried to set 2 up myself and after a 3 hour call with a tech in Phoenix they sent someone out. He couldn't get it to connect and he couldn't get the 2 in his truck to work properly. He did check the strength on my signal and said it was fine. I have a MoCA filter at the point of entrance to my house but was never able to set up a MoCA network.

All I know is the TA conks out daily now when it never did before. it's super annoying. Even with a timer on it that doesn't seem to fix anything. I'm not talking about HD channels either. I'm talking about the basic Food network channel (60). I have no idea what's happening on the upper levels because I haven't checked.

Im in NoVA and we're going on digital later this month so maybe it's related to the switch. The sales guy at the Cox store said I could get rid of the TA when they went all digital but now Cox is saying that's not true. But I made a note in my calendar to check 6 months after he told me that (when he thought we were going all digital).


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Go into TA diagnostics and into the PowerKey section. On the third page (for Cisco/Scientific Atlanta TA's at least) look at the date/time code under "Auth Exp". TA's will quit working exactly to the second at that time. Their authorization must be refreshed by a signal from the cable plant every 20 to 25 days. For the first year I had a TA, I had to call them once a month because the system was not sending that signal.

I doubt this is your problem but it's easy to check.


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## archers44 (Dec 23, 2004)

dlfl said:


> Go into TA diagnostics and into the PowerKey section. On the third page (for Cisco/Scientific Atlanta TA's at least) look at the date/time code under "Auth Exp". TA's will quit working exactly to the second at that time. Their authorization must be refreshed by a signal from the cable plant every 20 to 25 days. For the first year I had a TA, I had to call them once a month because the system was not sending that signal.
> 
> I doubt this is your problem but it's easy to check.


I do have a Cisco TA. Went to the PowerKey section in the TA Diagnostics and I don't have a line for Auth Exp (or at least it's not labeled). The third page is pretty short. I do have a Sub Expires: 0217.015600

Is that what you're talking about?

Thanks for your help!


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

archers44 said:


> I do have a Cisco TA. Went to the PowerKey section in the TA Diagnostics and I don't have a line for Auth Exp (or at least it's not labeled). The third page is pretty short. I do have a Sub Expires: 0217.015600
> 
> Is that what you're talking about?
> 
> Thanks for your help!


Sorry. Yes that is what I meant and clearly your date is way in the future so can't explain your problem. In fact I've never seen my date more than about 30 days in the future.


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## archers44 (Dec 23, 2004)

dlfl said:


> Sorry. Yes that is what I meant and clearly your date is way in the future so can't explain your problem. In fact I've never seen my date more than about 30 days in the future.


Interesting. No idea what it means. Well at this point it's just annoying. If it becomes a problem my attitude will change. I've a TiVo user since 2001 (I have an old Sony TiVo that was just retired) and this past year has really challenged my loyalty. Between the poor customer service from TiVo and the challenge that is getting a straight answer from Cox I wonder if its worth it. Not that a Cox DVR would be any better but at least there would only be one company to deal with.


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## tim1724 (Jul 3, 2007)

dlfl said:


> Sorry. Yes that is what I meant and clearly your date is way in the future so can't explain your problem. In fact I've never seen my date more than about 30 days in the future.


I've never seen it show more than 30 days in the future either. With Charter it is rarely more than 2 weeks in the future.

I regularly experience several problems with Cisco tuning adapters:


Charter fails to re-authorize my TA on time. (The "auth expires" field ends up showing a date in the past.) Luckily this has only happened a few times, and usually I can fix it by hitting the "Refresh" button on the Charter website. (Twice I've had to call them, though.)
The TA stops taking tuning requests from the TiVo. The TiVo still sees the TA as being attached, and you can get into the diagnostics menu, but tuning doesn't work. The best fix is to pull the power from the TA, reboot the TiVo, and then plug in the TA again while the TiVo is booting. If you don't want to reboot the TiVo, you can pull the USB connection between them, power cycle the TA, wait until it finishes booting (green light is solid) and then reattach the USB cable. Power cycling the TA while it's attached to the TiVo (without rebooting the TiVo) tends not to work in my experience. I used to have this problem regularly (every three weeks or so) but a firmware update about a year ago mostly fixed it. (Now it only happens once every six months or so.)
The TA crashes and the TiVo says that it no longer has a TA attached. Simply power cycling the TA generally fixes this.
The SDV headend fails to respond fast enough, and the channel doesn't get tuned. Recent versions of the TiVo software will try to tune the channel again after a few minutes, which usually works (but you may miss the first minute or two of the program). This is rarely an issue anymore.
The SDV headend isn't working. Even Charter-supplied cable boxes can't tune SDV channels in this case. Nothing to do but call them to complain.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

dlfl said:


> In fact I've never seen my date more than about 30 days in the future.





tim1724 said:


> I've never seen it show more than 30 days in the future either. With Charter it is rarely more than 2 weeks in the future.


30+ days in the future used to be the norm for me also.
Although, I have noticed my dates are now 50+ days in the future, I'm not sure when that changed for me.

Current Date: 01/07
TA Sub Expires: 02/29

My CableCARD date has been pushed forward over 30+ days also.
CableCARD Sub Expires: 02/20


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## BRiT wtfdotcom (Dec 17, 2015)

Current Date: 2015-01-16
Sub Expires: 0309..095600
CA Time: 01.16.123100

Cox Clevelend Ohio market, with Cisco TA and Roamio .

Updated last night for 20.5.6.RC21


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