# TiVo Premiere without Subscription?



## SCHNLR (Mar 31, 2012)

Long story short, basically all I want is a box that can receive OTA HD signals and output the video and audio via HDMI to my HDTV. Nothing more. Don't really need DVR functionality.

Why? Because I have a very nice stereo receiver that can only connect to my HDTV via S/PDIF. Audio signals received by the HDTV via HDMI are downmixed to 2CH PCM, a signal my stereo receiver can understand, and are output via S/PDIF. Connecting the OTA antenna to the HDTV directly simply sends a Dolby Digital audio signal via S/PDIF to the receiver and no audio can be heard. I otherwise have no use for a multichannel AV receiver and do not intend to buy one.

The TiVo would simply be there to pass OTA audio via HDMI to the TV. 

So what happens when I simply make the power/antenna/HDMI connections? 

Thanks.


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## GoEagles (Dec 2, 2006)

No, this will not work, you need a TiVo subscription of some type. I believe TiVo sells a $9.95 subscription for OTA service, you can contact them about that.


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## SCHNLR (Mar 31, 2012)

GoEagles said:


> No, this will not work, you need a TiVo subscription of some type. I believe TiVo sells a $9.95 subscription for OTA service, you can contact them about that.


So you're saying the box won't even work without a subscription?


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

SCHNLR said:


> So you're saying the box won't even work without a subscription?


At some point recently TiVo updated the OS to make the boxes a lump without a subscription. If memory serves, prior to that it would work as a tuner, with limited trick-play functionality and nag screens.

I don't know that this "upgrade" was ever brought to the S3 platform, and if not, a used S3 (Original, or TiVoHD) may do what you are looking for.


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## SCHNLR (Mar 31, 2012)

Does anyone know if TiVo still offers the $9.99/mo discount for antenna only users?


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

SCHNLR said:


> Does anyone know if TiVo still offers the $9.99/mo discount for antenna only users?


I think the $9.99 OTA-only subscription expired. And the last I heard, I think a Premiere will still work as an OTA tuner without a subscription, but that's all. You get no recording, no transfers or streaming, no trick play, and with the latest update no buffering of live TV at all, so even having a second tuner does you no good.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

The Premiere will still work as a basic tuner without a subscription, but that is all it will do.

You will have two tuner functionality, but that is rendered moot because there are no 30 minute buffers. Changing channels can only be done via the channel up/down button or by directly entering the channel numbers.
There will be no info in the EPG.

Edit: IIRC, if you get a Premiere with old software and don't let it update the software past version 14.8 (?) you might be able to keep the live TV buffers. I believe removal of the live TV buffers happened with 14.9.


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## SCHNLR (Mar 31, 2012)

steve614 said:


> *The Premiere will still work as a basic tuner without a subscription, but that is all it will do.*
> 
> You will have two tuner functionality, but that is rendered moot because there are no 30 minute buffers. Changing channels can only be done via the channel up/down button or by directly entering the channel numbers.
> There will be no info in the EPG.
> ...


And if I use it as such, will I be nagged all the time?


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

SCHNLR said:


> And if I use it as such, will I be nagged all the time?


I have used one for a bit and so far the nagging is mostly (if not completely) related to when you attempt to do something beyond what's _allowed_. Such as trying to view the schedule or whatnot. I have version 14.5 (I believe) and I can pause, rewind, etc.


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## MacQ2 (Oct 17, 2006)

Schnlr, doesn't your TV have an OTA tuner built in? Or, is it just a monitor?

Anyway, what you are describing is an OTA HD Tuner. Many companies sell these - there is no reason to buy a DVR for that. The DVR adds a spinning hard drive and related heat for no added benefit in your case.

Try Googling "HD OTA Tuner" and you'll see many options and reviews.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

SCHNLR said:


> Does anyone know if TiVo still offers the $9.99/mo discount for antenna only users?


Ended back in November.


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## SCHNLR (Mar 31, 2012)

MacQ2 said:


> Schnlr, doesn't your TV have an OTA tuner built in? Or, is it just a monitor?
> 
> Anyway, what you are describing is an OTA HD Tuner. Many companies sell these - there is no reason to buy a DVR for that. The DVR adds a spinning hard drive and related heat for no added benefit in your case.
> 
> Try Googling "HD OTA Tuner" and you'll see many options and reviews.


That is not my problem. I have an audio issue. Read the OP


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## MacQ2 (Oct 17, 2006)

SCHNLR said:


> That is not my problem. I have an audio issue. Read the OP


I did read your OP. This quote was what I was addressing:

"... basically all I want is a box that can receive OTA HD signals and output the video and audio via HDMI to my HDTV ..."

I think what you meant, now that I study your comment further, is a box that can output HD over HDMI but send the audio as PCM rather than Dolby. The Tivo has a setting which allows you to choose.

But, without even searching I think there are plenty of ways for you to convert Dolby to PCM. Just insert such a device between your TV and your receiver. This is not the best forum for advice on that matter. Try avsforum.

Are you sure your TV doesn't give you the option to convert DD to PCM? Many TVs do.

By the way, your OP said this but I think you meant to say it would also pass video - didn't you?
"The TiVo would simply be there to pass OTA audio via HDMI to the TV."

I was also confused by your OP when it said your TV would convert DD coming in via HDMI to PCM for output to your receiver. If your TV does that then a simple HD OTA Tuner should suffice.


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## SCHNLR (Mar 31, 2012)

I have a 1-year-old Panasonic Plasma HDTV. 

It can output sound either via S/PDIF or by HDMI. (No analog outputs.)
Audio received via HDMI (HTPC, Blu-Ray, etc.) is sent via S/PDIF as 2CH PCM.
Audio received via HDMI is sent via HDMI "as is," be it Dolby Digital, etc.
Audio received via the antenna is sent "as is" via either HDMI or S/PDIF.

All of the above functions are automatic with no choice to, for example, force ALL audio, no matter how received, to be sent as PCM via S/PDIF.

So the Dolby Digital audio coming into the TV via the antenna is sent as is via S/PDIF to the stereo receiver that can only decode PCM. It doesn't know what to do with the Dolby Digital OTA TV signal. BUT if I can send TV audio through the TiVo via HDMI to the TV, it will be downmixed to 2CH PCM, and I can then enjoy TV audio through my stereo receiver. Or I can configure the TiVo to output 2CH PCM directly to the receiver. 

The TiVo and the competing Channel Master set-top boxes are the only devices I have found so far that can receive OTA signals and send them out via HDMI.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

SCHNLR said:


> I have a 1-year-old Panasonic Plasma HDTV.
> 
> It can output sound either via S/PDIF or by HDMI. (No analog outputs.)
> Audio received via HDMI (HTPC, Blu-Ray, etc.) is sent via S/PDIF as 2CH PCM.
> ...


If you don't have to pay a subscription on the Channel Master, that may be the way to go for your specific situation (unless you want to replace the stereo or TV or both).

Does the CM have more than one tuner or the ability to record?

What's the model number?


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## MacQ2 (Oct 17, 2006)

Exactly Schnlr, all you need is an HD OTA Tuner. For some ideas other than the ones you have so far see avsforum thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=179095

Your other way to solve this problem is to get an audio decoder to sit between your TV and your receiver. Again, avsforum is a great source for audio info.

You said you don't need DVR ability, but, another option to keep costs down is to buy a used Tivo with Lifetime service on eBay. That avoids monthly costs and gives you full Tivo service - guide, recording and all that. You should be able to find very good used Tivo HD series 3 units with Lifetime for $300-$400. Heck, in about a month I'll be selling one on eBay that was used for less than 1 1/2 years - I've since upgraded my entire house to Premiere. You will have lesser cost options just with the HD OTA Tuner though.


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## SCHNLR (Mar 31, 2012)

But to get back to my original question. I don't think I have read anything here that would prohibit me from using a TiVo Premiere as digital tuner that can output via HDMI.


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## MacQ2 (Oct 17, 2006)

SCHNLR said:


> But to get back to my original question. I don't think I have read anything here that would prohibit me from using a TiVo Premiere as digital tuner that can output via HDMI.[/QUOTE
> 
> It should work fine. It has HDMI output. You said your TV will convert HDMI input to suitable audio S/PDIF PCM output to your receiver so you are fine. I thought it was obvious the Tivo could output via HDMI so I didn't think you were asking about that. I guess I misunderstood what you were looking for - nevermind.
> 
> The other folks have addressed the subscription issues. A quick call to Tivo will verify what abilities the unit will have without a sub.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

It should work, it'll just be an inferior experience to _any_ other ATSC tuner, since it won't even use the PSIP guide data like others will. But I guess standalone ATSC tuners are getting hard to come by?


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