# Bolt + Roamio + 5 minis Moca question



## mb117 (Nov 26, 2009)

On Fios, fully wired, recently built house, so all my runs are clean. I recently got a Bolt for my new 4K Samsung TV and have an Ethernet port right by the tv in the family room so it's plugged into the Bolt and the network settings show 'Ethernet Connection'. It works fine.

I have an older Roamio Plus as well and the room it's now in doesn't have an Ethernet port so it's just running Moca, but previously it showed Ethernet + Moca in the family room. The Roamio was, and still is, powering my 5 minis. Pre-Bolt, my Roamio and 5 minis were all running fine in the family room with network settings Ethernet + Moca. 

After installing the Bolt and the roamio, when I try to turn on Moca on my Bolt in network settings, my entire Internet connection in the house goes down, even the non-Tivo equipment. Nothing, absolutely, nothing works. After thinking I had a Fios problem for a week and having a truck roll to replace my router only to have the same issue, i concluded (correctly by process of elimination) that there is a major conflict when both the Bolt and Roamio have Moca turned on in network settings.

My questions are:
1) What's the basic setup for a Bolt, Roamio Pro, and 5 minis (e.g. Roamio=Moca on, Bolt=Moca off, etc..)
2) Do I even need to turn on Moca settings on the Bolt, and if so, what are the advantages of this?
3) Is this type of conflict between boxes normal, and if I need to have Moca running on both Bolt and Roamio, how do I fix it? I tried turning both boxes' Moca channels to Auto but that didn't work and after a few reboots, they both go back to 15.
4) Is it supposed to work such that the minis grab a tuner from either the Bolt or the Roamio, depending on how many things I have recording on the Bolt or Roamio at any given time?

I guess I really don't understand how Moca works, in practice, with my Tivos.

thanks for any help you can provide.


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## beyondthetech (Jan 2, 2015)

Only turn on the MoCA settings on the Bolt if you're using only its coaxial connection for network and digital TV connectivity. Otherwise, leave it Ethernet and it will talk to all the MoCA connected devices through the FiOS ONT while still getting the digital TV signal through the coaxial connection.

MoCA is automatically provided by the FiOS ONT and coexists with your FiOS router's setup, so they're all on the same network. I believe MoCA is limited to 8 devices and 130Mbps max speed, but if that's your only method to get a TiVo device up and running (i.e. no nearby Ethernet connection), then use it.

The Minis will grab whatever you select as your DVR for shows and tuning in its Settings.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

beyondthetech said:


> Only turn on the MoCA settings on the Bolt if you're using only its coaxial connection for network and digital TV connectivity. Otherwise, leave it Ethernet and it will talk to all the MoCA connected devices through the FiOS ONT while still getting the digital TV signal through the coaxial connection.
> 
> MoCA is automatically provided by the FiOS ONT and coexists with your FiOS router's setup, so they're all on the same network. I believe MoCA is limited to 8 devices and 130Mbps max speed, but if that's your only method to get a TiVo device up and running (i.e. no nearby Ethernet connection), then use it.
> 
> ...


Just to clarify a few things. Tivos use MoCA 1.1 except for the Bolt which uses MoCA 2.0 and both of these standards allow up to 16 devices. The older MoCA 1.0 standard only allowed up to 8 devices. It is the Verizon routers, either the Actiontec's or the newest Greenwave Gateway G1100, are what provides MoCA to the LAN side. The ONT(Optical Network Terminal) when not switched to Ethernet does use MoCA WAN but this does not connect with the MoCA LAN side, which comes from their router. If you have an Ethernet install and are using your own (non-MoCA) router, you will have to use the builtin "create a MoCA network" on the Bolt/Roamios or a standard MoCA adapter to establish a MoCA network.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Sounds like a standard conflict between two devices trying to create the moca network.

The Tivos don't need the ethernet connection. Setting them to moca-only is plenty. The router does the rest automatically.


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## mb117 (Nov 26, 2009)

Thanks, everyone. This forum has been a great resource. I've got the Bolt set to Ethernet only and the Roamio set to Moca only and things seem to be working perfectly now. 

It was maddening because I assumed that both the Bolt and the Roamio had to be set to Moca and they do NOT like each other when they both have Moca in their network settings.

My only remaining question is should I expect the same data speed and video quality to the Roamio from streaming services like Netflix, Amazon, HBOGo, etc, using Moca, as data speed to the Bolt which is connected via Ethernet. The reason I ask is that I thought coax has a 100mb speed limit, which is the reason why Verizon has told me that if i wanted to increase my Internet plan to 150mb or 300mb over the 100mb I currently have, then they need to rewire for Ethernet only out of the ONT.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2016)

fcfc2 said:


> Just to clarify a few things. Tivos use MoCA 1.1 except for the Bolt which uses MoCA 2.0 and both of these standards allow up to 16 devices. The older MoCA 1.0 standard only allowed up to 8 devices. It is the Verizon routers, either the Actiontec's or the newest Greenwave Gateway G1100, are what provides MoCA to the LAN side. The ONT(Optical Network Terminal) when not switched to Ethernet does use MoCA WAN but this does not connect with the MoCA LAN side, which comes from their router. If you have an Ethernet install and are using your own (non-MoCA) router, you will have to use the builtin "create a MoCA network" on the Bolt/Roamios or a standard MoCA adapter to establish a MoCA network.


I suspect I already know the answer to this, but is there an adapter you could put on a 2.0 network that would allow it to work on a 1.0 device?


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> I suspect I already know the answer to this, but is there an adapter you could put on a 2.0 network that would allow it to work on a 1.0 device?


Hi,
I only tested one MoCA 1.0 device on a MoCA 2.0 setup, that was an older Netgear MCAB1001 adapter, and as soon as I connected it, the entire MoCA network died, there was zero throughput. Since I had been previous advised by both Actiontec support and a guy from the MoCA alliance that the older MoCA 1.0 was not compatible with MoCA 2.0 devices, I simply accepted this as a given. 
I do vaguely recall a post from someone claiming that they had been able to get an older Actiontec W1424WR Rev A-E, all MoCA 1.0, to "work" with MoCA 2.0 adapter, but I did not try this myself and have doubts. 
I suppose there might be some device that will work, but without testing myself, I would not bet on it.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

mb117 said:


> Thanks, everyone. This forum has been a great resource. I've got the Bolt set to Ethernet only and the Roamio set to Moca only and things seem to be working perfectly now.
> 
> It was maddening because I assumed that both the Bolt and the Roamio had to be set to Moca and they do NOT like each other when they both have Moca in their network settings.
> 
> My only remaining question is should I expect the same data speed and video quality to the Roamio from streaming services like Netflix, Amazon, HBOGo, etc, using Moca, as data speed to the Bolt which is connected via Ethernet. The reason I ask is that I thought coax has a 100mb speed limit, which is the reason why Verizon has told me that if i wanted to increase my Internet plan to 150mb or 300mb over the 100mb I currently have, then they need to rewire for Ethernet only out of the ONT.


Hi, 
Assuming both Tivos are streaming from the same internet source, and that the Fios connection is 100/100 or less, you will be limited by the top internet speed period. But all of the streaming sources actually use much less bandwidth than videos recorded on your Tivos and even with a 100Mbps limit, several concurrent streams should have no problem. Theoretically, Cat 5e has a much higher "potential" throughput, but real world differences just streaming, you will see no difference, assuming both Ethernet and MoCA are functioning properly.
Until recently Verizon ONT's were only MoCA 1.1 on the WAN side so, the advice was that up to 75/75 the standard install was coax, and 100/100 and above was via Ethernet. Verizon has started issuing a new ONT(Model I forget) which now has MoCA 2.0 on the WAN side so when paired with their newest Gateway G1100 router, also handle up to 300/300 via coax. But these new ONT's are still rare in the wild, so don't expect anything above 75/75 via coax.
EDIT: Correction, the newest ONT with MoCA 2.0 is still limited to 100/100 max.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> I suspect I already know the answer to this, but is there an adapter you could put on a 2.0 network that would allow it to work on a 1.0 device?


If MoCA 1.1 adapters are backward compatible with MoCA 1.0, then you could build a secondary "MoCA 1.1/1.0" network with all MoCA 1.0 devices attached to it, and connect it to the same LAN with a Cat5e/Cat6 cable.

If you need to keep the MoCA traffic of your LAN, you could use two MoCA 1.1 adapters, with one on the "MoCA 2.0/1/1 network" and one on the "MoCA 1.1/1.0 network" with a Cat5e/Cat6 cable between them.

Quite a kludge, but it would work.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2016)

snerd said:


> If MoCA 1.1 adapters are backward compatible with MoCA 1.0, then you could build a secondary "MoCA 1.1/1.0" network with all MoCA 1.0 devices attached to it, and connect it to the same LAN with a Cat5e/Cat6 cable.
> 
> If you need to keep the MoCA traffic of your LAN, you could use two MoCA 1.1 adapters, with one on the "MoCA 2.0/1/1 network" and one on the "MoCA 1.1/1.0 network" with a Cat5e/Cat6 cable between them.
> 
> Quite a kludge, but it would work.


Trying to figure out how I can make 6 FiOS QIP-2500s that are 1.0 work on a FiOS Quantum 2.0 network.

I can see it working if there was a 2.0 to 1.0 bridge, but have no idea if such a device exists.


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## mb117 (Nov 26, 2009)

beyondthetech said:


> Only turn on the MoCA settings on the Bolt if you're using only its coaxial connection for network and digital TV connectivity. Otherwise, leave it Ethernet and it will talk to all the MoCA connected devices through the FiOS ONT while still getting the digital TV signal through the coaxial connection.
> 
> MoCA is automatically provided by the FiOS ONT and coexists with your FiOS router's setup, so they're all on the same network. I believe MoCA is limited to 8 devices and 130Mbps max speed, but if that's your only method to get a TiVo device up and running (i.e. no nearby Ethernet connection), then use it.
> 
> ...


Helpful, thanks.

Mods: sorry for the shameless selling


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## mb117 (Nov 26, 2009)

fcfc2 said:


> Hi,
> Assuming both Tivos are streaming from the same internet source, and that the Fios connection is 100/100 or less, you will be limited by the top internet speed period. But all of the streaming sources actually use much less bandwidth than videos recorded on your Tivos and even with a 100Mbps limit, several concurrent streams should have no problem. Theoretically, Cat 5e has a much higher "potential" throughput, but real world differences just streaming, you will see no difference, assuming both Ethernet and MoCA are functioning properly.
> Until recently Verizon ONT's were only MoCA 1.1 on the WAN side so, the advice was that up to 75/75 the standard install was coax, and 100/100 and above was via Ethernet. Verizon has started issuing a new ONT(Model I forget) which now has MoCA 2.0 on the WAN side so when paired with their newest Gateway G1100 router, also handle up to 300/300 via coax. But these new ONT's are still rare in the wild, so don't expect anything above 75/75 via coax.


I think I have one of those rare, new ONT boxes (see attached pic). I had serious Internet speed issues for months and two VZ techs came by in January and installed a new ONT, which is the small black box below the light colored dinosaur. They had to leave the older one because there was about 60 feet of fiber slack wound up in it. I now get OVER 100mb down and up all the time (between 100-110 and i pay for 100). I was tickled at how fast it was so naturally I wanted FASTER for only $10/month more but when I tried to order 150/150 online, it said i had to order a truck roll so i called VZ CS and they told me that I needed a truck roll to change some wiring because my set up can only handle 100/100. I go from the ONT via coax direct into the Actiontec router upstairs via a coax run and then from the router back down via ethernet to my gigabit splitter that sends it to my other ports in other rooms around the house. Is what they told me not true? Do they just want to get the $49.95 truck roll fee?

And all my wiring is Cat5e....


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

mb117 said:


> I think I have one of those rare, new ONT boxes (see attached pic). I had serious Internet speed issues for months and two VZ techs came by in January and installed a new ONT, which is the small black box below the light colored dinosaur. They had to leave the older one because there was about 60 feet of fiber slack wound up in it. I now get OVER 100mb down and up all the time (between 100-110 and i pay for 100). I was tickled at how fast it was so naturally I wanted FASTER for only $10/month more but when I tried to order 150/150 online, it said i had to order a truck roll so i called VZ CS and they told me that I needed a truck roll to change some wiring because my set up can only handle 100/100. I go from the ONT via coax direct into the Actiontec router upstairs via a coax run and then from the router back down via ethernet to my gigabit splitter that sends it to my other ports in other rooms around the house. Is what they told me not true? Do they just want to get the $49.95 truck roll fee?
> 
> And all my wiring is Cat5e....


Hi, 
I found the thread which addresses this issue but it is still unclear and there are is some conflicting information with no 100% certainty. Here it is, https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r3...uantum-100-100-Upgrade-no-Ethernet-Switchover
I am not an expert on the various types of ONT's but at this point Verizon has apparently just upped the limit on what they term GPON ONT's to 100/100 vs the older BPON units which are still capped at 75/75 for MoCA WAN. But the way I read it, anything over 100/100 is going to have to be switched to Ethernet, so Ethernet will have to be installed from the ONT to your router to upgrade to 150/150 and you may still need a new ONT also.
The information regarding the new MoCA 2.0 ONT is incorrect, at least as of this time MoCA 2.0 WAN is not a factor on increased internet speeds. The ONT which is MoCA 2.0 WAN capable but not implemented is the Alcatel G-821M, 
http://www.mocalliance.org/products/certificates/MIC0161-Alcatel-secured140910b.pdf


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> Trying to figure out how I can make 6 FiOS QIP-2500s that are 1.0 work on a FiOS Quantum 2.0 network.
> 
> I can see it working if there was a 2.0 to 1.0 bridge, but have no idea if such a device exists.


What I described is a way to build your own 2.0 to 1.0 bridge using two MoCA 1.1 adapters.


```
{MoCA 2.0 network} -- [MoCA 1.1 adapter] -- Cat5e/Cat6 -- [MoCA 1.1 adapter] -- {MoCA 1.0 network}
```


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## mb117 (Nov 26, 2009)

fcfc2 said:


> Hi,
> I found the thread which addresses this issue but it is still unclear and there are is some conflicting information with no 100% certainty. Here it is, https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r3...uantum-100-100-Upgrade-no-Ethernet-Switchover
> I am not an expert on the various types of ONT's but at this point Verizon has apparently just upped the limit on what they term GPON ONT's to 100/100 vs the older BPON units which are still capped at 75/75 for MoCA WAN. But the way I read it, anything over 100/100 is going to have to be switched to Ethernet, so Ethernet will have to be installed from the ONT to your router to upgrade to 150/150 and you may still need a new ONT also.
> The information regarding the new MoCA 2.0 ONT is incorrect, at least as of this time MoCA 2.0 WAN is not a factor on increased internet speeds. The ONT which is MoCA 2.0 WAN capable but not implemented is the Alcatel G-821M,
> http://www.mocalliance.org/products/certificates/MIC0161-Alcatel-secured140910b.pdf


Thanks. I forgot to mention that when they installed the new ONT they also moved me at the switch up the block to GPON from BPON, which apparently makes a BIG difference in QOS, from what they told me. I've been pretty lucky that the Fios techs in my area have been really good. The 2 guys said that the new ONT they installed can handle any speed that VZ offers. The reason why I think they're just playing CYA at the home office is that when i run speed tests now I consistently get OVER 100/100 with my current coax set up, which it appears they're throttling based on my service level. Who knows if it could handle up to 150/150 on coax, but they'll never push it through for me to find out without wiring full ethernet out of the ONT. I just need to figure out how to run an ethernet line up one floor without tearing up a wall because the wall port upstairs in the kitchen that has my coax feed into the router also has my one ethernet port that needs to send the ethernet traffic down to my switch in the basement to feed the rest of the house. The good thing is that the basement is still unfinished so I can come up (relatively) easily from underneath.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

beyondthetech said:


> I believe MoCA is limited to 8 devices and 130Mbps max speed, but if that's your only method to get a TiVo device up and running (i.e. no nearby Ethernet connection), then use it.


MoCA 1.0 is limited to 8 devices and about 130Mbps.

MoCA 1.1 is limited to 16 devices and about 170Mbps (PHY rate 270Mbps)

MoCA 2.0 is limited to 16 devices and about 400Mbps (PHY rate 700Mbps)

MoCA 2.0 bonded is limited to 16 devices and about 800Mbps (PHY rate 1400Mbps).


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