# TP-Link alternatives?



## Tipperton (May 23, 2017)

Hi everyone!

I hope you all are fed, fat, happy, and avoiding the dreaded covid19 creep!

I am totally blind and live alone in a one bedroom apartment. I currently have a 1 TB Bolt DVR in my living room hooked up via ethernet to my WiFi router in my dining room where I have my home office. In my bed room, I have a Mini that is hooked up, also by ethernet, to a TP-Link AC750 WiFi extender which has its wireless networks turned off and is only used to connect the Mini to my WiFi router to make the connection to the Bolt DVR in the living room.

I set up this arrangement last December and January and it has been working great with only one problem since then. But now that one small problem has become so much of a problem that I am now looking for an alternative to the TP-Link. The problem is that the audio, and probably the video too, now constantly cuts in and out frequently and the Mini frequently reports that it has lost the connection to the Bolt DVR. I believe that this problem is coming from the TP-Link because I have no playback problems with the Bolt DVR itself when I listen to my show in the living room and because I often stream internet radio stations through the WiFi router and never have any problems like this.

So,, does anyone know of an alternative solution that I could use to link my Mini to my Bolt DVR? I would have loved to be able to run ethernet cable between my router and my bed room, but that isn't really an option because it just isn't practical without drilling a lot of holes in a lot of walls which I'd rather not do.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer, it will be greatly appreciated.


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## Hercules67 (Dec 8, 2007)

In no way should you consider me an expert. I do not know if anything I say below will work for you. Putting that aside I do work with networks, Wi-Fi and such. You can say I am IT adjacent, not a system expert. There is something else you might consider as part of your problem:

Until recently, I lived in an Apartment myself. With two TiVos, both connected thru wireless, I had to deal with two issues: The many other people/houses/apartments running Wi-Fi around me and the strength of my own Wi-Fi signal. There is such a thing as two many wi-fi signals and wi-fi channel saturation (signal upon signal upon signal). What did I do? Although I ended up setting a really cheap TP-Link router as a repeater/extender, I also switched channels for my Wi-Fi to numbers that were mostly NOT used by those around me. Although my TiVos didn't have that many problems, my PLEX Server which I mostly used with my Bolt and my Roku stick, FAILED a whole lot. But changing the Wi-Fi channels I broadcast on, fixed all my signal strength issues. Give that a shot and see if anything improves. (The changes need to happen at your ROUTER.)


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## Tipperton (May 23, 2017)

Your suggestion about switching channels might have been an idea except how would I know what channel to switch to. My router doesn't tell me anything about the clarity or how much traffic is on any of the available channels, plus a tech from the cable company has already switched the router from automatic channel selection to manual and selected a channel.

To be honest I am only guessing that the problem is the TP-Link. That was what I am hoping was an educated guess based on how the other involved devices behave when used for similar purposes with other devices. I could easily be wrong. I just don't know how I would go about troubleshooting this problem other than to try swapping parts of the set up out for something else and see what happens.


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## High Technology (Apr 16, 2006)

Wi-Fi is not ideal for streaming from a TiVo, since the bitrates are pretty high from TiVo (vs. streaming services which are often compressed more). And as noted above, there is such a thing as too much Wi-Fi. The 5GHZ band is less crowded, and I see you have an TP-Link that is dual-band, so if your main router is also 5GHZ capable, you can you try turning the 2.4GHZ off on the TP-Link in the hopes that a 5ghz link works better.

Assuming that isn't a good solution, am I correct in assuming you don't have a cable outlet in the bedroom? If you do have a cable drop in the bedroom, then you could use the cable line to link the Mini to the Bolt. That's MOCA, and the Bolt can be set up to act as a MOCA switch (take Ethernet and link to the COAX), and effectively puts your network on the cable line. You can then connect the Mini to the COAX in your bedroom and it should find the Bolt. Other than as noted below, no additional hardware is needed.

One very important thing is that you'll want a MOCA filter sitting on your incoming cable line, else your network will be visible to anyone else in your building (or nearby buildings) that you share the incoming coax with that also uses MOCA. The MOCA filters are cheap, maybe $10-15 on eBay and/or Amazon. MOCA would be my preferred approach as it's virtually identical to having wired ethernet, and I have 2 Minis hooked up via MOCA and they have worked flawlessly.

If MOCA is not an option, then the next thing I might try is powerline. I have no experience with this, so perhaps others can chime in on how powerline ethernet works with TiVos.


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## Tipperton (May 23, 2017)

When I first set up this network all that I had on it was my computer, the Bolt, and some mobile devices. The computer and the Bolt were both wired in with ethernet cables, everything else connected via WiFi. So to keep things simple I turned off the 5GHz band and did everything on the 2.4GHz band.

Then I added the Mini. First I tried using a pair of TP-Link power line ethernet links but for them to work both outlets have to be on the same circuit and the two outlets I had available were not on the same circuit, so they didn't work for me. So I tried the TP-Link WiFi extender. It worked and since I didn't need the WiFi extensions, I turned them off and left only the link to my main network running. This was still on the 2.4GHz band. Then I started having these connection drop outs between the Mini and the Bolt, so I reconfigured the TP-Link and the router to move the Mini's network to the 5GHz band. Unfortunately this didn't solve the drop outs.

The way this apartment is set up and that several of my neighbors have TVs in their bedrooms, putting a drop in there might not be a problem for the cable company because the cable that feeds my main network has to pass through or very close to the bedroom to get to the living room.

Thanks a bunch for that tip about the Moca filter, I wasn't aware that I'd need one to maintain my network's security. Let me guess, TiVo sells one.


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## High Technology (Apr 16, 2006)

Just make sure if the cable drop goes in, it comes off the line coming into your apartment -- not from a neighbors. The cable company might view the whole building as a single feed, in which case it would be fine for a cable box, but then your MOCA signal couldn't be filtered at the line coming into your apartment.

If you go this route, the filters are really cheap -- Weaknees is like $13 and they are as low as $6-7 on Amazon: It might be worth buying one from TiVo or Weaknees since they are so inexpensive and there are two types out there -- one that filters video and not internet (typically used by the cable companies if you don't subscribe to video), and the one that filters MOCA out and let's video pass (this is the one you want). Here's one that should work from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Filter-MoCA-...5Q2Q7KFB8ESXR9B5K3&qid=1634428652&sr=8-3&th=1

Sorry to hear that Powerline and 5Ghz aren't working for you -- if you've tried other frequencies on the 5GHZ band (realizing you need someone to help you do this), then MoCA might be the only real alternative. The problem with all of the Wi-Fi is most routers are set up to use the bookend channels (channel 1 or channel 11, or sometimes the middle channel 6 for the 2.4GHZ band), and you may be better off on interim channels like 4 or 8. In an apartment building, there just may not be enough frequencies on the 2.4GHZ band as the automatic scanning function may have put other routers on all of the channels (remember the channels are wider than a single channel, so if you pick channel 4, you'll be centered on 4, but you'll really span channels 2 to 4.

Many default to something similar for 5GHZ, though there are a lot more channels to choose from. So a good 5GHZ router should have been able to find an open channel that would work well, thought 5GHZ has a tougher time with physical obstructions like walls (especially plaster walls with metal lattice behind them, as found in many older apartment buildings). So you'd not want to try to bury your router behind other devices (especially electronic ones), and you'd want to have your extender also out in the open (i.e., as much line of sight as possible).


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## lhvetinari (Jun 24, 2019)

I ran a Mini off wireless (using the recommended TP Link AC750 travel nano router) for quite some time. A few things to note:

TiVos, in general, are EXTREMELY sensitive to network drops and stutters. Minis offer no real "buffer" function - they expect to get the datastream off the host with fairly low latency and no interruptions, like one would see on a good wired network. They have no compensation for poor links, if there's congestion or re-transmission delays on WiFi they just won't work (and will bomb out, usually with a v87 Lost Connection error).

5GHz is a requirement, and signal quality needs to be on the better end of good. Connect the nano router's power to the Mini's USB so you can reboot both by rebooting the Mini. The nano router's firmware separates out access points broadcasting the same network, make sure to connect to the 5GHZ band (and the closest access point, if you have a mesh). 

Might be worth using something like WiFi Analyzer (on an android phone) to check band congestion, if you have neighbours. Pick a free band and you'll get better performance. I have all but deprecated 2.4 entirely in my house, with exception for a few cheap Chinese wifi bulbs.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

I have found the free version of inSSIDer quite helpful to find low use channels. It requires a wireless adapter but not much else. This is my display:







Channel 1 has become popular. I have two RE6500 on two Mini and a WUMC710 on another. This year my reliability has been 100%. My router is a Netgear R8300 and I have about a dozen connected devices, some wired but most not.


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## Tipperton (May 23, 2017)

Line of sight isn't possible here, there no convenient outlets I could use for that and the ones that are available are on oposite sides of the apartment. The router is next the west wall of the dining room that is my home office and the TP-Link is plugged into an outlet on the east wall of the bedroom.

My router is the one that Spectrum provided, if I want Spectrum support to be able to help me when needed, I have to keep it.

My TP-Link isn't the nano, it plugs directly into an AC outlet rather than into a USB port. It has two prongs for the AC outlet, two folding antennas, a reset button, and an ethernet port. All I was told was to get a TP-Link AC750, which is what I got.

This apartment building is an older building, I believe that it was built in the mid to late 60s. It is reinforced concrete block construction, though I do believe that the construction of all the interior walls is wood frame.

I am currently considering whether or not to keep cable TV or to "cut the cord" and switch to streaming for all my TV entertainment, I have until the end of February, when my TiVo program guide subscription would need to be renewed, to decide. If I decide to keep cable TV, I'd cut my channel selection to just the local channels and Music Choice, so I'd want the Moca filter that allows both video and internet.


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## lhvetinari (Jun 24, 2019)

Tipperton said:


> Line of sight isn't possible here, there no convenient outlets I could use for that and the ones that are available are on oposite sides of the apartment. The router is next the west wall of the dining room that is my home office and the TP-Link is plugged into an outlet on the east wall of the bedroom.
> 
> My router is the one that Spectrum provided, if I want Spectrum support to be able to help me when needed, I have to keep it.
> 
> ...


TP Link makes several different devices under the AC750 name. You've probably got the range extender. I only recommend this one for use with Minis: TP-Link AC750 Wireless Portable Nano Travel Router(TL-WR902AC) - Support Multiple Modes, WiFi Router/Hotspot/Bridge/Range Extender/Access Point/Client Modes, Dual Band WiFi, 1 USB 2.0 Port https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01N5RCZQH/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_2JVPQT87TW6B5JGYR3JK

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tipperton (May 23, 2017)

You are right, I got the range extender. In the thread where I got the advice to get the TP-Link for my Mini set up, no mention was made that there were several different models of the TP-Link AC750, so I figured that there was only one and that was the one to get. (frown)

Does the nano have an ethernet port? My Mini doesn't support anything but Moca or ethernet.

Thanks!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Tipperton said:


> Does the nano have an ethernet port?


Yes.

Re: your current "extender" device, can you report its specific model number and version? (For example, "RE205 v3" &#8230; link)

Also, do you know the configuration mode to which it is set? Specifically, have you configured it to function in access point mode, rather than as an extender? (aka "wireless bridge" mode, or "as a wireless adapter"; see here)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Tipperton said:


> I got the range extender. In the thread where I got the advice to get the TP-Link for my Mini set up&#8230;


You bought the RE205 per that thread:


Tipperton said:


> A question: Whomever it was that recommended the TP-Link devices said that the WiFi extender was RE250 but mine says that it is RE205. Did I get the wrong one or did you reverse the 5 and the 0 in your message?





Tipperton said:


> &#8230; no mention was made that there were several different models of the TP-Link AC750, so I figured that there was only one and that was the one to get. (frown)


To the contrary&#8230;


krkaufman said:


> Tipperton said:
> 
> 
> > A question: Whomever it was that recommended the TP-Link devices said that the WiFi extender was RE250 but mine says that it is RE205. Did I get the wrong one or did you reverse the 5 and the 0 in your message?
> ...


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## High Technology (Apr 16, 2006)

Just a couple of minor clarifications. 

When I said to try for as much line of sight as possible, it doesn't have to be a clear and open area. What I was suggesting was fewer walls if possible, without obviously reconstructing your house. 

Sometimes when my friends complain about their Wi-Fi, they often have the router tucked behind a TV or buried in an entertainment cabinet or sitting on the floor. Moving your router and extender just a few feet out in the open a bit more can sometimes fix some dropout issues.

On the filters -- these are called POE (point of entry) filters. There are two types -- one that blocks video signals, but lets cable internet through. These would typically be installed by the cable company if you subscribe to internet only (these used to be called video traps). Obviously, you don't want this version.

The other version is what you need -- it's installed where your cable enters the apartment, and prevents the MOCA signals from passing back out of your unit. If lets the video channels and the incoming/outgoing internet to/from the cable modem to pass through, but not the MoCA network signals.


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## Tipperton (May 23, 2017)

My mistake then, I may have been a bit confused as this was all new to me back then. At that time I was simply happy to have gotten it all to work as the TP-Link's user interface isn't exactly friendly to screen readers but with some fussing around I was able to get around that.

AS noted I got the AC750, RE205, I don't know what version, where would I learn that?

For the TP-Link configuration, I would guess that I am just using it as a bridge if that is the correct term. I don't recall any specific mode settings option. Since I don't need them I turned off both the 2G and 5G extended networks, and it logs into only the 5G network on my router, and finally the Mini is plugged into the ethernet port on the TP-Link.

Also, if it weren't for the way the outlet is wired, I could have plugged the TP-Link into either the top or bottom outlet, though plugging it into the top outlet would have blocked access to the bottom outlet, just like most older AC adaptor bricks.

Depending what it will take, I am going to look into having a cable drop put into the bedroom and give Moca a try.

Question: If I use Moca, will the Mini use the Bolt's connection to the internet to verify that it is activated so that the screen reader will work, or do I need to provide the Mini with its own connection to the internet?

Thanks a bunch!


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## lhvetinari (Jun 24, 2019)

Tipperton said:


> My mistake then, I may have been a bit confused as this was all new to me back then. At that time I was simply happy to have gotten it all to work as the TP-Link's user interface isn't exactly friendly to screen readers but with some fussing around I was able to get around that.
> 
> AS noted I got the AC750, RE205, I don't know what version, where would I learn that?
> 
> ...


Assuming the Bolt has internet access via ethernet, you will set it up as a MoCa Bridge in the network configuration. This will share it's network connection over the coax segment. The Mini will be set up as a MoCa client, which will permit communication to the Bolt as well as access out to the internet at large.

If you decide to go with Moca, make sure your feed from the cable pedestal has a MoCa POE filter to stop the traffic from leaving your network and being accessible from a neighbour's cable jacks. If you cannot verify this with your cable provider, you can use encryption to prevent other devices from joining the network without the passcode.


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## Tipperton (May 23, 2017)

Excellent! As long as a drop can be put into my bedroom without making a complete mess of things, it sounds like Moca might be the best option for me.

Thanks!


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## Tipperton (May 23, 2017)

Well, the drop was put in and I got MOCA set up but it turns out to be a no go for me because the screen reader requires that the Mini have it's own internet connection for it to work. It will not work while using the Bolt's internet connection through MOCA, so I have to use the ethernet port on the Mini and that disables MOCA.

Even though they are pretty much useless, it looks like I'll have to call TiVo technical support again. And, no, I do not expect there to be a resolution from them.


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## Tipperton (May 23, 2017)

I just got off the phone with TiVo technical support, and there appears to be no way that I can use MOCA because the screen reader insists that it have a direct connection to the internet in order to verify that the TiVo device it is running on is activated, and it cannot do that through MOCA.

So now my options are to suffer with this barely functioning WiFi link, or to look into running an ethernet cable all the way to my bedroom. What a mess! lol!


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

See post 8. Or a copy here:

Channel 1 has become popular. I have two RE6500 on two Mini and a WUMC710 on another. This year my reliability has been 100%. My router is a Netgear R8300 and I have about a dozen connected devices, some wired but most not.


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## Tipperton (May 23, 2017)

That WUMC sounds interesting. But at that price, I wish I could be sure that the TP-Link is the source of my problems before I replace it with something else.

My router is from Spectrum, it says that it is a Sagemcom [email protected] Router.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

edit: pre.s. Or just ignore all this, since it's just random speculation absent any clue how the screen reader works.



Tipperton said:


> I just got off the phone with TiVo technical support, and there appears to be no way that I can use MOCA because the screen reader insists that it have a direct connection to the internet in order to verify that the TiVo device it is running on is activated, and it cannot do that through MOCA.


How was the screen reader networked when using the TP-Link RE205 device?

Now that you have MoCA connectivity possible at the Mini location, you could just add a standalone MoCA adapter at that location to make the network connection via MoCA (rather than using the Mini's built-in MoCA connectivity), and then connect a network switch to the MoCA adapter to get both the Mini and screen reader connected via Ethernet.

Alternatively, rather than using the MoCA adapter and network switch, you may be able to use a MoCA adapter with 2+ Ethernet ports to provide the Ethernet connections for the Mini and screen reader. For example: https://www.amazon.com/MoCA-2-5-Gigabit-Ethernet-Ports/dp/B0931V5847/

p.s. If the screen reader doesn't require its own network connection, you could just try using any old MoCA adapter to proxy the Mini's (Ethernet) network connection.


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## Tipperton (May 23, 2017)

The RE205 TP-Link device provides direct access to the internet through the router's internet connection, just like the way the Bolt DVR accesses the internet. Apparently the way the screen reader is coded, it cannot use MOCA to access the internet to verify its device's activation status.

Can you tell me more about these MOCA adapters? I believe that what I would need is something that connect to the coax cable and transfers the MOCA network to the ethernet network. Since the Mini can only be a MOCA client, it cannot use both MOCA and ethernet at the same time which is apparently what I would need to have the screen reader work properly.


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## lhvetinari (Jun 24, 2019)

Tipperton said:


> The RE205 TP-Link device provides direct access to the internet through the router's internet connection, just like the way the Bolt DVR accesses the internet. Apparently the way the screen reader is coded, it cannot use MOCA to access the internet to verify its device's activation status.
> 
> Can you tell me more about these MOCA adapters? I believe that what I would need is something that connect to the coax cable and transfers the MOCA network to the ethernet network. Since the Mini can only be a MOCA client, it cannot use both MOCA and ethernet at the same time which is apparently what I would need to have the screen reader work properly.


I'm going to have to do some testing when I get home. I've never used the screen reader, but a moca connection (in which it can access the internet) should be the same as ethernet for the purpose of the reader.

I've got a Bolt Vox TE3 using MoCa I'll test this on tonight.


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## Tipperton (May 23, 2017)

I did some more testing myself, apparently the screen reader can use MOCA to determine device activation status, but there is a lot of lag, it takes 30 to 60 seconds for the screen reader to get the device's activation status, which it has to do for every line of text it has to read, so I'd have to wait 30 to 60 seconds for each menu entry or item on the my shows list before that menu or list entry can be read by the screen reader, and as far as I'm concerned, that close enough to being completely unusable that I do not consider it a viable solution.

Good luck with testing, my TiVo information in case you need it.

I have a 1TB Bolt from before they started offering the VOX model. This doesn't bother me as I have zero interest in voice control.

My Mini is also from before the Vox models were offered. Unlike newer models of the Mini, this one does not have built in WiFi support.

Thanks a bunch for the help, I love my TiVos, I just hate the company's toxic attitude towards the visually impaired. The last time I spent some time at my parents' house, I was able to use the TiVo app on my iPhone to listen to several of my recorded shows I had on my Bolt, that was really neat!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Tipperton said:


> Can you tell me more about these MOCA adapters?


Functionally similar to what your RE205 was doing, but using MoCA rather than wireless. A MoCA adapter simply offers a bridge between Ethernet and MoCA, so you could use one at the Mini location to keep the Mini configured as an Ethernet client &#8230; but with the Mini's traffic bridged to the coax by the MoCA adapter, and then back to the router LAN via the BOLT's built-in MoCA bridge. (The BOLT is the functional equivalent of a wireless access point in the scenario.)


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## lhvetinari (Jun 24, 2019)

Tipperton said:


> I did some more testing myself, apparently the screen reader can use MOCA to determine device activation status, but there is a lot of lag, it takes 30 to 60 seconds for the screen reader to get the device's activation status, which it has to do for every line of text it has to read, so I'd have to wait 30 to 60 seconds for each menu entry or item on the my shows list before that menu or list entry can be read by the screen reader, and as far as I'm concerned, that close enough to being completely unusable that I do not consider it a viable solution.
> 
> Good luck with testing, my TiVo information in case you need it.
> 
> ...


YouTube massacred the video quality, but here's a quick test from my bedroom TiVo. It's a Bolt Vox on TE3 with MoCa networking as the internet connection. Bolt Vox is identical to the Original Bolt.

https://youtube.com/shorts/RjukH26WVuk?feature=share

No delays or anything while I page around. Might be something with the particular Mini you're using?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tipperton (May 23, 2017)

One thing I forgot to mention, my Bolt is running TE4. I was mislead into upgrading by someone who claimed that TE4 would solve the screen reader problems I was experiencing with TE3. Unfortunately, TE4 did not solve any of the screen reader problems in TE3, even worse, TE4 had even more screen reader problems than TE3 did. I initially wanted to get down to where I didn't care that much about the recordings on the Bolt so I could downgrade back to TE3, but after more than a year using TE4, I am now used to it and unless I can be assured that I am not being mislead again about downgrading to TE3, I'm inclined to keep using TE4., 

The cable company did not deliver the MOCA filter that I was promised that they had and would install on my line so I can't use MOCA without encryption, (I could but I don't want to broadcast my MOCA network for all to see and gain access to), but it appears as though encryption introduces its own problems because I could never get the MOCA network working with encryption turned on. I could get my own MOCA filter, but the cable tech said that it has to be installed in the cable box which I have no access to. I guess I'll have to harass them until they install it, then try again when I can get sighted help, because I have to unplug the ethernet cable from the Mini and when I do that I lose the screen reader.

This all would have been completely unnecessary if only TiVo's screen reader was implemented properly. I can understand the need to verify activation status for licensing purposes, I think that succeeding to connect to the TiVo service and downloading program guide data should have been enough for that thus requiring only one check each day, but instead TiVo decides that the screen reader has to check activation before every line of text it has to read before it will read it. That is the only explanation I can come up with to explain why the screen reader quits working as soon as the TiVo device loses its internet connection.


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## Tipperton (May 23, 2017)

Well, I guess that settles that.

At least with spectrum, I cannot use MOCA because there is no way to tap into the line feeding my apartment. It appears as though these lines were put in as these buildings were being built so there is no junction box on the back of the building, instead the cables run underground from the main junction 200 feet away all the way to the building, and inside the walls inside the building.

So it appears that ethernet is my only option.

How so very disappointing.


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## Tipperton (May 23, 2017)

Update: After getting an in house tech to come out instead of a contractor, I am so happy to say that I now have a working MOCA network! Hopefully this will solve all my drop out and lost connection problems between the Bolt and the Mini.

Thanks a bunch for all the help and advice! It is very much appreciated.


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