# Top Shot ALL STARS (Season 5) - Entire Season



## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

If you've been  becuase your _Top Shot_ season pass hasn't been picking up any new episodes, you will probably want to tweak it.

Wednesday, May 29th at 10E/9C, _*Top Shot All Stars*_ premieres with a cast of returning marksmen/woman, including Gabby Franco . Here's the list of competitors:

Adam Benson	Season 1 / 6th
Alex Charvat	Season 3 / 5th
Blake Miguez	Season 1 / 7th
Brian Zins	Season 2 / 2nd
Chee Kwan	Season 4 / 6th
Chris Cerino	Season 1 / 2nd
Gabby Franco	Season 4 / 8th
Gary Quesenberry	Season 3 / 3rd
Gregory Littlejohn	Season 4 / 2nd
Jamie Franks	Season 2 / 5th
Joe Serafini	Season 2 / 4th
Kelly Bachand	Season 1 / 5th
Kyle Sumpter	Season 4 / 5th
Peter Palma	Season 1 / 4th
Phil Morden	Season 3 / 6th
William Bethards	Season 4 / 7th

And a link to the cast page on History's web site: http://www.history.com/shows/top-shot/cast

I'm actually really looking forward to this!


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

I like the fact it is shooting only, no teams


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## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

Nice!


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Thanks for the heads-up, I would've missed it.


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## RainyCity4 (Jun 23, 2003)

My son and I met Kyle Sumpter and he is a boy scout merit badge counselor for Crime Prevention and he invited my son to his police station for a guide of their jail (required by the merit badge).

Suffice to say that he was a VERY nice gentleman and he's exactly who he was on the Top Shot and I'm rooting for him all the way!

Brent


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

Looking at the places they finished in, it would be a bit of a reach to call all of them All-Stars but "Players Who Have Already Done This Before" doesn't have the same ring to it. No teams and no nomination range semms promising. I'm looking forward to it.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

Thanks for letting us know! I really like this lineup....I'm glad most of it is made up of the non-drama-queens from previous episodes. Of the few that did slip through, Greg's probably the worst, and he's nothing like George or especially Jake. 

I would have liked to see Michele Viscusi again though, just for the entertainment value  I would also have loved to see Tara join again; a lot of fans have been wanting her to return after she had to leave and see her father for one last time.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

Just a bump in case you missed this, in time to set your recording for the premiere.


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

glad to see Gabby. Whe was a really neat person and a deadly good shot.


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

I would also like to say thanks for the reminder that the name is different for this season. If not for this thread I would have missed the premier and maybe more.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

This will be my first season of watching. Anybody know if the other seasons are available on Netflix?


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

pmyers said:


> This will be my first season of watching. Anybody know if the other seasons are available on Netflix?


Doesn't look like it's available for streaming (which is all I have right now). Don't know about DVD.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Only season 1 is available at Netflix on DVD. Seasons 2-4 are listed as 'Save', so it looks like they haven't been released.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

A bit pricey, but all prior episodes should be available on iTunes and maybe Amazon on Demand. Watching the prior episodes gives you a feel of their abilities as well as the way they "play with others."


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## gschrock (Dec 28, 2001)

RonDawg said:


> A bit pricey, but all prior episodes should be available on iTunes and maybe Amazon on Demand. Watching the prior episodes gives you a feel of their abilities as well as the way they "play with others."


Looks like they're free for Amazon Prime. I might have to go back and watch season 1 and 2, I think I started watching in season 3.


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## HIHZia (Nov 3, 2004)

No surprise Littlejohn choked under pressure. 

He never would have made it so far last time under this format.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

That one guy wasted no time talking about "ratfinks". Jeez!


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

I like how they got rid of the 'voting'. Just send the two people who did the poorest to the challenge. It works well.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Yeah, the politics really annoyed me before, some of the better shooters went home because of the voting thing.


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

Also interesting how many of the competitors hung out with each other after the season ended, even from different seasons.

--Carlos V.


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## nmiller855 (Sep 26, 2000)

I like that they didn't bring that poor sport coach back. I have a mental block when it comes go his name.
I will enjoy watching these contestants. I recorded it but haven't watched it yet.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

Donbadabon said:


> I like how they got rid of the 'voting'. Just send the two people who did the poorest to the challenge. It works well.


The single biggest improvement in the show. It's the way it should have been all along.

A bit of hypocrisy from some of the contestants though who said this is the way it should have been, rather than the Nomination Range. A few of them, Gunny especially, was very much part of cliques in their respective series that conspired to get rid of the "unpopular" people regardless of skill level.



Amnesia said:


> That one guy wasted no time talking about "ratfinks". Jeez!


That was Adam, and his comment was referring to Kelly Bachand, even though the "current calibre" of people (or whatever BS he mentioned) he claims would likely prevent that from happening. Kelly himself has admitted that perhaps he was a bit immature during the filming of Season 1; clearly he's more grown up more than Adam since that series.



nmiller855 said:


> I like that they didn't bring that poor sport coach back. I have a mental block when it comes go his name.


That was Jake (Season 3) and I seriously, seriously doubt he'll ever come back. He's got way too much pride, and IIRC the reason he quit was because they dared voted him into elimination. I'm surprised he even appeared in the Season recap, where he came across as being even more mentally unbalanced.


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## gschrock (Dec 28, 2001)

I've got mixed feelings about the "Proving Ground" for deciding the bottom two to go to the challenge. I like that it's not the voting, but at the same time, this very much favors those that are pistol shooters. Anyone that their specialty is more in the rifles, that's a disadvantage for them. The rest of the competition the gun type changes enough that it evens out some of the disparity there, but for it to always be a pistol for that part seems a bit tough.


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

gschrock said:


> I've got mixed feelings about the "Proving Ground" for deciding the bottom two to go to the challenge. I like that it's not the voting, but at the same time, this very much favors those that are pistol shooters. Anyone that their specialty is more in the rifles, that's a disadvantage for them. The rest of the competition the gun type changes enough that it evens out some of the disparity there, but for it to always be a pistol for that part seems a bit tough.


Why would it always be pistol, they could use cross-bow, throwing knife, blowgun or other short distance weapons for a challenge.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

gschrock said:


> I've got mixed feelings about the "Proving Ground" for deciding the bottom two to go to the challenge. I like that it's not the voting, but at the same time, this very much favors those that are pistol shooters. Anyone that their specialty is more in the rifles, that's a disadvantage for them. The rest of the competition the gun type changes enough that it evens out some of the disparity there, but for it to always be a pistol for that part seems a bit tough.


I would think that any of these for whom pistol is not their 'specialty', but is going onto the show to compete would at least practice the crap out of it to be able to succeed. I would think someone at that skill level could get good enough. The one area I'll take a step back on that is it didn't seem like they were all aware of that aspect before they got there. A lot different just shooting at a target with someone's name on it than actually shooting a 'closest to dead center' deal with a pistol.

That's just one man's opinion, though.


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

I prefer skill based reality shows with minimal politics. The pace was fast and they made a sport where there is not a lot of visible action into something interesting. I thought the excessive explosions in the grenade launcher competition was a nice touch even though the rounds were obviously inert.


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## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

sieglinde said:


> I thought the excessive explosions in the grenade launcher competition was a nice touch even though the rounds were obviously inert.


The problem with that is all the smoke. It can hide your next target, or as seen last year or the year before, your opponent's.


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

But to me that was a part of the challenge


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## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

sieglinde said:


> But to me that was a part of the challenge


Depending on the wind it isn't fair though. Previously when we've seen this challenge the wind was blowing left to right. This was HUGE advantage to the guy on the left. As soon as his target exploded the wind took the smoke away... and covered his opponent's targets. Not fair play.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

Ya, but you have to remeber it was Littlejohn shooting, so I'm not really sure how much the smoke had to do with it! LOL


(But, yes, I do understand it's quite a disadvantage to no be able to see your targets. )


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

In previous attempts with this weapon the smoke seemed to play a part. In this one, unless they did some judicial editing, I didn't see Littlejohn's targets obscured by smoke at all.


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## gschrock (Dec 28, 2001)

Ment said:


> Why would it always be pistol, they could use cross-bow, throwing knife, blowgun or other short distance weapons for a challenge.


We'll obviously see after future episodes, but the way Colby was talking it definitely sounded like this would be the weapon for all of them.


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## Tivortex (Feb 29, 2004)

I'm glad the series is back, I'd heard somewhere it was cancelled.

I really like the format tweeks. They provide more focus on the main event, shooting.

Looks to be a good season.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Ment said:


> ...they could use cross-bow, throwing knife, blowgun or other short distance weapons for a challenge.


...or they could use a rifle!


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

Amnesia said:


> ...or they could use a rifle!


For a short distance target? Might as well put a scope on it for these guys.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

Azlen said:


> Looking at the places they finished in, it would be a bit of a reach to call all of them All-Stars but "Players Who Have Already Done This Before" doesn't have the same ring to it.


All of the contestants here made it to Green Team status, so while not necessarily "All-Stars", the "Best of the Best" moniker that Colby likes to mention does seem to fit.

I noticed that Seasons 2 and 3 are each underrepresented by one person, and the other two seasons have an extra person to make up for it. I'm wondering if it's because the middle seasons had more than one person from their Green team unwilling/unable to attend this time around, and/or certain ones were specifically left off the invitation list?



Tivortex said:


> I'm glad the series is back, I'd heard somewhere it was cancelled.


At one point last season, that was the fear as History Channel had not yet decided on renewal even though it was getting close to the final episode. Colby had asked the show's fans to urge History Channel to renew it.


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## jeff92k7 (Jan 18, 2006)

Okay...this may have been discussed in an earlier season thread, but...

What's with all the backpacks the contestants carry around. They don't carry the firearms around. They probably do carry their own eyes and ears, but they wouldn't need a big backpack for those small things. So what gives? What's in the backpacks that always look full.


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

Water, food, sunscreen, books, spare shirts (for the 'confessional' filiming), hats, etc.

--Carlos V.


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

I would imagine there is quite alot of free time in-between setting up targets and practice rounds. Do they do the reaction interviews on site or back at the house.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

jeff92k7 said:


> What's with all the backpacks the contestants carry around. They don't carry the firearms around. They probably do carry their own eyes and ears, but they wouldn't need a big backpack for those small things. So what gives? What's in the backpacks that always look full.





Unbeliever said:


> Water, food, sunscreen, books, spare shirts (for the 'confessional' filiming), hats, etc.


Also for contestants involved in the elimination competition, they have to pack up everything, as the loser doesn't get to go back into the house.


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## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

Fun episode last night. Love the trick shots.


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

The proving ground was done with a rifle so it is not always a pistol


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## gschrock (Dec 28, 2001)

sieglinde said:


> The proving ground was done with a rifle so it is not always a pistol


Yup, and I'm glad to see them vary that, makes my complaint moot.


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

Maybe a bow will be used or one of those weird weapons like a sling shot


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## jeff92k7 (Jan 18, 2006)

sieglinde said:


> Maybe a bow will be used or one of those weird weapons like a sling shot


I always think that the crossbows, long bows, sling shots, etc cheapen the show. Maybe that's just me. I want to see shooters competing at shooting, not flinging arrows and other nonsense. Leave the arrows on 'Top Archer' (I hereby claim that name under copyright law....History can call me to lease naming rights...lol)


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

jeff92k7 said:


> I always think that the crossbows, long bows, sling shots, etc cheapen the show. Maybe that's just me. I want to see shooters competing at shooting, not flinging arrows and other nonsense. Leave the arrows on 'Top Archer' (I hereby claim that name under copyright law....History can call me to lease naming rights...lol)


I think that for that particular challange (to see which 2 go to the elimination round) anything thing they use is fine...but I agree that I wouldn't want to see an entire challange revolving around some type of archery.


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

Ok, it's straining credulity a bit that Chee knocked out Gabby in the previous season, and Gabby returns the favor in this one. I can see it at the end of the season when the group is small, but not the beginning. That was a very uncharacteristic flyer that Gabby had in the selection round.

--Carlos V.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

Gabby has been known to throw shots before. She did on the .50 cal that got her eliminated last season. I am more inclined to believe that Chee "sandbagged" this one in order to let her continue.

Speaking of sandbagging, can Jamie make it more freakin' obvious that he was sandbagging during practice?


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## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

RonDawg said:


> Speaking of sandbagging, can Jamie make it more freakin' obvious that he was sandbagging during practice?


I think the bigger question is did William really think Jamie wasn't sandbagging?


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## gschrock (Dec 28, 2001)

RonDawg said:


> Gabby has been known to throw shots before. She did on the .50 cal that got her eliminated last season. I am more inclined to believe that Chee "sandbagged" this one in order to let her continue.


I'm not convinced Chee sandbagged. As I recall, when Gabby did this particular task last season, she absolutely nailed it, and I think was the one that shot the smallest targets? So she's shown in the past that she's damn good at it. And I don't think Chee did particularly well that season on the task either. I'm guessing this particular task is right up the alley on what Gabby did as part of her olympic shooting. She was very calm and collected when going about that challenge, and Chee was anything but (but I still don't think he sandbagged it). Personally, I'm guessing Gabby could have knocked out half the group on that particular challenge.


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

Gabby taking a flyer on the rifle (1000 yard shot) is understandable. But an Olympic pistol shooter taking a flyer on a modern pistol, while not impossible, is highly unlikely.

I agree with gschrock. This challenge was right up Gabby's alley.

--Carlos V.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

Unbeliever said:


> Gabby taking a flyer on the rifle (1000 yard shot) is understandable. But an Olympic pistol shooter taking a flyer on a modern pistol, while not impossible, is highly unlikely.
> 
> I agree with gschrock. This challenge was right up Gabby's alley.
> 
> --Carlos V.


The SIG in her small hands combined with the heavy and longer DA pull doesn't make it seem all that unlikely that she would throw that flyer.

Remember she also did poorly in the challenge with the same gun and I don't even think she hit her first bottle.


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

snowjay said:


> The SIG in her small hands combined with the heavy and longer DA pull doesn't make it seem all that unlikely that she would throw that flyer.
> 
> Remember she also did poorly in the challenge with the same gun and I don't even think she hit her first bottle.


Agree with you its the first round that would have tripped her up if anything after that it was smooth sailing for her. Chee probably had more of a mental distraction this time around being that he was going to be the one to take her out twice.


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

snowjay said:


> The SIG in her small hands combined with the heavy and longer DA pull doesn't make it seem all that unlikely that she would throw that flyer.


Everybody was shooting SA on that run. Or at least I remember way more than 1 person was shooting SA. I need to go back and check if Gabby specifically was shooting SA as well.

--Carlos V.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

Unbeliever said:


> Gabby taking a flyer on the rifle (1000 yard shot) is understandable. But an Olympic pistol shooter taking a flyer on a modern pistol, while not impossible, is highly unlikely.
> 
> I agree with gschrock. This challenge was right up Gabby's alley.


Just because a particular challenge is "right up" someone's alley doesn't mean they can't screw up. Denny Chapman, the cowboy trick-shooter from Season 1, totally bombed the trick shooting competition. And "World Class Grenadier" Greg Littlejohn bombed, yes, the grenade launcher challenge not once, but twice.

Gabby may be a great shooter, but she also seems easily distracted. This season is especially showing that mental focus is just as important as any fine motor skill. All have shown they have the latter...but can they be focused all of the time?


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

I am rooting for Abby for a variety of reasons including gender. I am surprised there are not more women champion shooters since small motor skills is a woman's forte. Maybe more dedicated hobbiests who become professionals who are men. More male military members and police. etc. So far the sportsmanship has been very good in this show.


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

I'm not saying it is impossible. I'm saying that her and Chee losing it at the same time when the field is still large is what's straining credulity.

Edit: Ron, we're not disagreeing. My post stated "while not impossible". Yes, I agree mental focus is important, and I agree that's what knocked Littlejohn off both times. 

--Carlos V.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

Unbeliever said:


> I'm not saying it is impossible. I'm saying that her and Chee losing it at the same time when the field is still large is what's straining credulity.
> 
> Edit: Ron, we're not disagreeing. My post stated "while not impossible". Yes, I agree mental focus is important, and I agree that's what knocked Littlejohn off both times.


I think this competition is really who has the best mental discipline. All have already proven to the producers they can hit the broad side of a barn, and many have some impressive titles. Yet someone like Athena Lee manages to lose early despite her titles, while a firearms "nobody" like Jay Lim beats her (and several others with greater firearms experience) to Green Team status. Chris Cheng was also a firearms nobody and yet he won over a lot of military/former military/law enforcement/ex-LE competition.

Chee may not have sandbagged but he was definitely distracted at the thought of sending Gabby home again. At least this time Gabby was able to keep her focus, going so far to say that she refused to check on Chee's progress for fear of being distracted herself.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I was not at all surprised by Gabby winning that final. She's proven time and again that she excels at that type of shooting; she couldn't have asked for a better challenge. I don't think we have to chalk it up to Chee losing focus because he's going up against Gabby to explain the outcome. I think she could have beaten pretty much anyone on that challenge. From what we saw she only missed once or twice.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

I was really impressed with the sportsmanship of this week's episode. Even though doing so could jeopardize their own chances, it was nice to see people calling out the shots and giving suggestions to the individual archers. 

I hope the improvement in sportsmanship and integrity is followed by a ratings boost over last season.


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

I don't think they'll bring this format back again. Its not as exciting for the reality show fan who happens to watch this show vs gun/weapons fan who happens to watch a reality show.

Impressed with Gabby again with the longbow. Pulling it back as far as she did with her smaller frame really impacts your accuracy and she overcame it to score well. The final challenge not so much a fan. Seemed loading the rounds was more important than marksmanship and even though familiarity with a weapon system is part of the challenge, I like ones weighted more towards accuracy.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Ment said:


> I don't think they'll bring this format back again. Its not as exciting for the reality show fan who happens to watch this show vs gun/weapons fan who happens to watch a reality show.
> 
> Impressed with Gabby again with the longbow. Pulling it back as far as she did with her smaller frame really impacts your accuracy and she overcame it to score well. The final challenge not so much a fan. Seemed loading the rounds was more important than marksmanship and even though familiarity with a weapon system is part of the challenge, I like ones weighted more towards accuracy.


I hope you are wrong.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

vertigo235 said:


> I hope you are wrong.


I hope so too. Anybody know what the ratings are so far vs. for the previous seasons?


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

RonDawg said:


> I hope so too. Anybody know what the ratings are so far vs. for the previous seasons?


Don't know the numbers for last season but last episode was a 0.5 in the 10pm timeslot which was the same as Mythbusters which is on the 9pm time slot. Assuming unknown players next season I don't think this format woud be as good for ratings but that just my opinion.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

If it's doing as well as Mythbusters, I would say it's doing quite well


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

I am not a firearms fan. I prefer reality shows that show extreme skill and not drama. I am learning a lot also. Such as don't use a Gatling gun during the zombie apocalypse because it is a fiddley thing to load.. I wonder if there was something wrong with the feed mechanism or if the winner was just more dexterous.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

I'm not sure if this is the case in the main competition but they made a point that Jamie only did one time and the other guy did two clips of time. I wonder if that had something to do with the issues of feeding.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

This is my first season of watching the show...I also watch most reality shows. I find this one refreshing BECAUSE of the lack of drama. I enjoy that you really do determine your own fate.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

pmyers said:


> This is my first season of watching the show...I also watch most reality shows. I find this one refreshing BECAUSE of the lack of drama. I enjoy that you really do determine your own fate.


This is a great season for you to start watching then. All the seasons before this had them 'voting' for who they wanted to go head-to-head in the end. It was so much drama it was almost unwatchable.

I love this season since they got rid of all that mess. I hope they keep it going.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

Donbadabon said:


> This is a great season for you to start watching then. All the seasons before this had them 'voting' for who they wanted to go head-to-head in the end. It was so much drama it was almost unwatchable.


Yeah Season 2 was especially bad. George Rheinas had convinced a select group (which included Gunny and Joe) to be his pals and to as much as possible vote Jaime into elimination. That was the "politics" that Jaime spoke of when he had to go to elimination last week, not from politics or even screwing up, but two of the shooters just shot even better than he did.

Season 4 was perhaps most drama-free of all the seasons prior to this one. Greg tried to pull a George Rheinas, but unlike that of George, Greg's performance was too inconsistent to let him become house bully.


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## jeepair (Apr 22, 2004)

vertigo235 said:


> I'm not sure if this is the case in the main competition but they made a point that Jamie only did one time and the other guy did two clips of time. I wonder if that had something to do with the issues of feeding.


The extra weight of more ammo in the feed slot makes it harder for the rounds to drop. The slot is only open so far and the thickness of the cartridge rim will bind when more cartridges are pushing down from above. You have to 'fan' the bullets several times to make them travel down the slot.


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## HIHZia (Nov 3, 2004)

Sad to see Gabby go. I think Kelly's mistake was to put her first on the domino. I think he should have put her on the sixth slot. That probably wouldn't have gone over well with the boys though.


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

Sorry to see her go. Now I have to figure out who I want to win


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## Tivortex (Feb 29, 2004)

Gabby will be missed in our house. She's an amazing marksperson and a great sport.

I like the general humbleness of the entire cast. It's a refreshing change from smack talking losers on most TV competitions.

I also just love the high speed photography shots, catching bullets in flight and watching shock waves travel through the shooters bodies.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

Tivortex said:


> Gabby will be missed in our house. She's an amazing marksperson and a great sport.


This.



> I like the general humbleness of the entire cast. It's a refreshing change from smack talking losers on most TV competitions.


Or for that matter, the first four seasons of _Top Shot._ I mentioned it earlier, but the sportsmanship is vastly improved, and really showed during the archery competition.



> I also just love the high speed photography shots, catching bullets in flight and watching shock waves travel through the shooters bodies.


I've always found the show's cinematography to be impressive.


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

The bullet hitting the ax blade. Wow


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

Unfortunately a bit of the interpersonal politics has come back, with Kelly once again being seen as the odd-duck in the house. Unless there is something going to happen later in the season, I'm not sure what the point was of even mentioning it. Peter's remark of some of them wanting to see Kelly go to elimination, and Chris' remark of how "once again" Kelly was in the lead in the "Wheel of Colby" challenge, both came across as petty jealously.

That was a close race between Gary and Jamie at the end. Jamie was very confident he was going to win...perhaps a bit too confident after he aced the 1 mile sniper shot last week (which he also won on Season 2, albeit with 2 shots). I was hoping Jamie would have gone a bit further this Season then he did in Season 2.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

I was wondering how much of the Kelly talk was actual tension and how much was producer-manufactured "tension". I think it's kind of natural when Kelly hasn't even come close to having to participate in the elimination challenge for some of them to be curious about how he'd do or to wish he had to be in it. And I can see the comments being totally benign when made.

Is it real jealousy/pettiness, or just editing? Could be either one at this point. And I would hope that it's NOT pettiness, as much as I would hope that it's not just the producers trying to gin up tension for drama's sake. With this group of shooters, I can certainly see them wishing the brash (or not so brash), young kid would have to feel some of the pressure of facing elimination without them being petty.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

Just like in Season 1, I do think that at least a few of them do feel threatened by "the kid." This season especially he seems untouchable, and he's only gone to the Proving Ground because he was part of a losing team, and never had to go to Elimination. Along with Chris and Phil, Kelly is a good candidate for the $100k and the speed boat.

I'm just surprised that the comments have come from Chris and Pete, who in Season 1 were among the most drama-free of that group.


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## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

For the first time this season I watched a few of the house scenes. Of course it would be when they are *****ing about Kelly. It surprised me that Peter would say anything, though he seemed to feel the same about Chris. And I can totally see why Chris would say what he did. He is ultra, ultra competitive. I think more than anyone in the house. Adam, though, he just comes across as a dick when it comes to Kelly. He needs to let it go. I was really hoping he would go to elimination.

I'd love to see Kelly win this but I don't think he will. I have a bad feeling he's going to end up in an elimination challenge with some crazy weapon and lose it. Like, for example, what was shown in next week's preview. I hate seeing weapons like that in elimination challenges. The atlatl as well. The elimination challenges should be more skill based. If Kelly doesn't win I'd like to see Chris or Gary take the prize.


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## JoBeth66 (Feb 15, 2002)

ClutchBrake said:


> For the first time this season I watched a few of the house scenes. Of course it would be when they are *****ing about Kelly. It surprised me that Peter would say anything, though he seemed to feel the same about Chris. And I can totally see why Chris would say what he did. He is ultra, ultra competitive. I think more than anyone in the house. Adam, though, he just comes across as a dick when it comes to Kelly. He needs to let it go. I was really hoping he would go to elimination.
> 
> I'd love to see Kelly win this but I don't think he will. I have a bad feeling he's going to end up in an elimination challenge with some crazy weapon and lose it. Like, for example, what was shown in next week's preview. I hate seeing weapons like that in elimination challenges. The atlatl as well. The elimination challenges should be more skill based. If Kelly doesn't win I'd like to see Chris or Gary take the prize.


Very much agreed. Kelly impressed me first season, and he's impressed me even more this season. The kid is just /good/.

I'm loving the drama free proving ground as opposed to the 'nomination range'. For this type of show, it makes sense that the poorest performer goes home. No infighting, no cliques, no BS drama. I really, really hope they keep the format.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

ClutchBrake said:


> For the first time this season I watched a few of the house scenes.


As far as I can recall, this was the first time this season there were so many house scenes. That's one of the things I've enjoyed the most this time around.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

I wonder if the only reason they showed those "Kelly doesn't fit in at the house" scenes was because the guy who won the challenge talked about how much he just wanted to beat Kelly and so the producers wanted to give his comment some context.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

ClutchBrake said:


> ...I hate seeing weapons like that in elimination challenges. The atlatl as well. The elimination challenges should be more skill based...


I disagree because the 2 challanges that got you to the elimination are based on skill, so I say "let the freak flag fly" when it comes to the elimination challange.


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## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

pmyers said:


> I disagree because the 2 challanges that got you to the elimination are based on skill, so I say "let the freak flag fly" when it comes to the elimination challange.


I'd rather flip it then. Make the prior challenge fruity.

You make a great point about two challenges to get there. I kinda forgot about that since there is no voting this year. :up:


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

Wow - I thought Kelly had a pretty decent shot to win the whole thing. I always hate when they mess up something that the mentors expressly tell them not to mess up - especially when they make a point of saying, 'I'm glad he pointed that out and I'll be sure not to mess that up'.

I did figure he was really in trouble, though, when he pooched the proving ground shot with the pistol.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I can't believe Kelly pooched that pistol shot so bad.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

None of the 3 that shot the SIG really excelled.


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## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

I have to admit I'm less interested now that Kelly is gone.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

snowjay said:


> None of the 3 that shot the SIG really excelled.


Including the guy that supposedly uses it all of the time (Chris).


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

I was wondering if the ending was going to be the "Battle of the Second Place Finishers" with Chris and Gunny doing pretty well. But then I realized that Gary finished #3 in his season (Mike Hughes was second) and the highest-scoring Season 4 contestant still remaining is William (with Greg, Kyle and Chee already being eliminated).

I earlier had my predictions of Kelly going to the last episode or two. But with him gone, my predictions are now:



Spoiler



Chris, Gunny, and Gary, with Chris being the most consistent of them all. His first (and so far, only) performance at the Proving Ground was definitely an anomaly.


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

It seems that people, both his fellow shooters and the audience, did not like Kelly. I think his loss will improve the show and the house


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## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

sieglinde said:


> It seems that people, both his fellow shooters and the audience, did not like Kelly. I think his loss will improve the show and the house


The other competitors didn't like him because they were intimidated. Can't imagine the audience not liking him. I LOVED watching him perform.

Granted, I don't watch the house stuff much.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

Ya, I'm kind of missing where the audience not liking him is coming from.

As for the house, I've heard comments about him being more of a loner and such, but I didn't get the impression he was doing things to alienate others in the house. Not like some in past seasons that were in people's faces, etc.

Just


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

I agree. Even in Season 1, where his conflicts with Bill, and later Adam, were well featured, I couldn't see why those two had a problem with Kelly. Bill and Kelly have since buried the hatchet (Bill invited Kelly over on his radio show after the season concluded) and from what Adam said about him at the end of the elimination challenge, it seems like he's buried it as well.

I think the loner part, the fact that's he's so much younger than most of them, and perhaps the lack of commonality outside of firearms (no prior military and/or law enforcement like most of them are) might have fueled the dislike. But he wasn't the troublemaker like George or especially Jake was. And yet George has his defenders (not so much Jake).


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

I really enjoyed this week's main challenge. Just when you thought one pair were going to be just fine (Chris and Phil) and another were going to choke completely (William and Adam), they both surprise you.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

I dunno, Kelly rubs me the wrong way. Sure he's a good competitor but something about his "lonerness" just gets to me. It seems like he didn't even try to fit in. With all the other life experience in that house if I was his age I'd be trying to tap into that and expand my horizons.


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

I agree. He didn't try being just friendly. Though he was not a troublemaker.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

snowjay said:


> It seems like he didn't even try to fit in. With all the other life experience in that house if I was his age I'd be trying to tap into that and expand my horizons.





sieglinde said:


> I agree. He didn't try being just friendly. Though he was not a troublemaker.


If I'm not mistaken, there was basically just the one shot of him sitting reading a book with one of the other guy's in voice over talking about him being a loner, etc.

He could have been the nicest guy and gotten along just fine with everybody, but if that's all the producers decided to show, to support a fabricated 'tension' in the house, I just can't jump to some of the conclusions about him not trying to fit in, etc.

He's basically a different generation, and when everybody is sitting around telling stories, sharing experiences, etc., it's natural that he'd be a fish out of water. He could be soaking in all kinds of knowledge, but at some point he'd be more like a fly on the wall and it's natural that he'd seem distant.

I just don't buy that he's universally disliked or anything like how the producers may have been trying to portray him. But in the end, that's just my opinion. :shrug:


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

His personality did not really play a role in this season. I hope future seasons with new shooters also don't play up personalities. Getting rid of teams and nomination rounds helped greatly.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

Gunny really saved himself during Elimination. I didn't think he was going to get the perfect score necessary to win, given how poorly he did during the Proving Ground. 

The smoke from the main challenge was annoying. I know the explosions look great for the sake of TV, but as we could see from the POV-cam it made it really hard to see the targets near the top of the circle.


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

Gunny was amazing. The zip line looked very stable so his planning and focus could come into play


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

BTW after he threw that shot at Proving Ground, what did Chris ask him that caused Gunny to say "At Colby's feet"? I've tried replaying the scene several times but Chris' voice was too low and muffled for the microphones to pick up clearly.

(I'm guessing Chris asked "So where did the shot go?" and Gunny's response was that his aim was so far off it might as well have hit Colby's feet. But that's just a guess.)


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

In essence, you guessed correctly.

--Carlos V.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

sieglinde said:


> Gunny was amazing. The zip line looked very stable so his planning and focus could come into play


I have to say that I was disappointed in both the stability and the speed of that zipline. There was about zero movement and it was way too slow. I was expecting more "drama" from the zip line.


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

Yeah I wanted the zip to go faster, they could line up and aim pretty easily in this one.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

They should be hanging upside down from the zip line while spinning in a circle!


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## gschrock (Dec 28, 2001)

I've got to agree, I actually thought the challenge seemed a bit easy. There seemed to be plenty of time to line up on the targets as the zipline moved. Maybe if it'd been at least 50% faster there'd have been some, but I'm actually surprised the one guy missed a target.


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

how about starting from the bottom and going up, they'd have choose whether to stay with a target they missed or try and hit the one closest to them.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I would have preferred they gone down a regular zipline. The ones where your butt is just basically in a sling and your feet are dangling. That "slide" they had them in just gave way too much stability, especially with their feet and legs being supported.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

Awesome season finale. Phil was not one of my predictions to even make it to the final episode, much less win the season. He finished #6 in his season, and yet he pulled ahead of two #2's (Chris and Gunny) and a #3 (Gary). Technically, he also beat another #2 (Greg) as well, though that happened on the first episode. He absolutely smoked the first two competitions, and while he almost lost his initial lead on Chris after initially smoking the third compeition, took advantage of Chris' difficulties with the crossbow to win it. 

I do hope that not only does the series continue, but that they continue to adopt the "proving ground" method of going to elimination, rather than being "nominated." Colby, when he sat down with the final contestants at the house, was really impressed with the level of sportsmanship, as was I. Hopefully he can convince the producers at Pilgrim TV to continue with the revised format.


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## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

Fantastic finale. I had been rooting for Chris and Gary since the beginning but I have to admit by the end I found myself rooting for Phil. That was easily the best season yet and I hope we get more in a similar format. The sportsmanship among these guys truly made it a pleasure to watch.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Phil won a couple of those final contests with his feet. That guy can sprint.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

I hope they keep the method of elimination (no voting each other out, all based on performance) in the next season. It works so much better than the tribal votes.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

heySkippy said:


> Phil won a couple of those final contests with his feet. That guy can sprint.


Yup. Chris even acknowledged this when he said Phil made him "feel old" for the first time.


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## Odds Bodkins (Jun 7, 2006)

Season was fantastic and every contestant seemed honored to be there, ergo, no manufactured drama. I agree that the Proving Ground has to stay.


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