# Series 3 Verizon FIOS HD compat?



## mchad

I was just about to order a Series 3 from TIVO, when I decided to ask that they gaurantee me that it will work with Verizon FIOS HD (I currently have cablevision, however FIOS is already installed in my building and I will be switching as soon as it is available). The sales rep transferred me to tech, who after 15 minutes told me that they had no information on whether it will work with FIOS HD. 

So, does anyone REALLY know if a Series 3 will work with FIOS directly (No verizon box to video inputs, IR blasters, etc)?


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## soulposition

I'm calling VZ in a few to order my CableCards from them. I was told by the installer that I could move to CableCard whenever I wanted but it would be like pulling teeth because VZ doesn't want to support the CableCard.



mchad said:


> I was just about to order a Series 3 from TIVO, when I decided to ask that they gaurantee me that it will work with Verizon FIOS HD (I currently have cablevision, however FIOS is already installed in my building and I will be switching as soon as it is available). The sales rep transferred me to tech, who after 15 minutes told me that they had no information on whether it will work with FIOS HD.
> 
> So, does anyone REALLY know if a Series 3 will work with FIOS directly (No verizon box to video inputs, IR blasters, etc)?


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## rainwater

soulposition said:


> I'm calling VZ in a few to order my CableCards from them. I was told by the installer that I could move to CableCard whenever I wanted but it would be like pulling teeth because VZ doesn't want to support the CableCard.


I think Verizon has a multi-stream cable card so you would only need one of them.


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## dt_dc

mchad said:


> So, does anyone REALLY know if a Series 3 will work with FIOS directly (No verizon box to video inputs, IR blasters, etc)?


My official answer: Call up Verizon and ask them.

My unofficial answer: Yes, it will work. There may be a few glitches ... but ... Verizon is working those out. Sometimes diligently ... somtimes not so much. But ... main thing is to call Verizon and ask for CableCard availability / installations.


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## TampaDon

Hi.

I just called FIOS.

They have cable cards but the old ones not the new ones. They told me you would have NO interactive GUIDE, NO video on demand, and NO Pay Per View unless you call their automated telephone number to order a pay per view movie.

Cards cost $2.95 per month.

Don


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## rainwater

TampaDon said:


> Hi.
> 
> I just called FIOS.
> 
> They have cable cards but the old ones not the new ones. They told me you would have NO interactive GUIDE


Who needs the FIOS guide when you will have the TiVo interactive guide?


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## TampaDon

Hi.

I forgot to mention that I was told the Cable Cards DO require a site visit and cannot be picked up and that fee is $24.95.

Don


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## Leo_N

TampaDon said:


> Hi.
> 
> I just called FIOS.
> 
> They have cable cards but the old ones not the new ones. They told me you would have NO interactive GUIDE, NO video on demand, and NO Pay Per View unless you call their automated telephone number to order a pay per view movie.
> 
> Cards cost $2.95 per month.
> 
> Don


Yes, it'd be a hassle for PPV and you would lose OnDemand, but you don't want their intereactive guide anyway, Tivo will have its own built in.


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## mchad

Can one of you post a response when you have it up and running? FIOS isn't quite available in my condo yet (they have run all the supporting infrastructure already, but haven't turned up the service or began individual installs) so I can't really call them to discuss ordering cablecards yet...

I could use an S3 with my cable, but until I hear that it is actually working with FIOS in HD, I am hesitant to order one...

Thanks!


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## dt_dc

My FiOS TV install is tommorow ... but ... unfortunately I'll be holding off on the S3 for a while.

I'd be happy to test one for Tivo though  (I know ... I'm so kind)


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## mchad

I've waited 2 years for an HD Tivo (no, I can't have Direct TV in my building) and now that it is finally available, I have to wait to see if I can actually use it! Arrgh!


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## musicforme

I plan on ordering my Tivo from the VIP link today and will call Verizon once I have the S3 in-hand. I hope to be up and runing on Fios TV by the end of next week.


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## mchad

I'll be standing by...

Thanks


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## Jazhuis

TampaDon said:


> They have cable cards but the old ones not the new ones. They told me you would have NO interactive GUIDE, NO video on demand, and NO Pay Per View unless you call their automated telephone number to order a pay per view movie.


There *are* no new cable cards that support those features yet. That's the Cablecard 2.0 standard that people talk about. The closest thing to a "new" Cablecard out there will be the multistream CC 1.0 cards, which just happen to use one card for two streams.

So currently, no Cablecard will give you VOD or PPV through your device. But you're still technically close to the cutting edge of the whole thing -- I love how they call them the "old" cards, so it sounds like you're getting ancient junk.


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## JohnBrowning

I'm running a CableCARD in my Mitsu TV fed by VZ FIOS with no problems whatsoever. While VZ had some problems initially getting the card init'd, I think those were just familiarity issues. I'll probably order an S3 in a month or so and don't anticipate any issues with moving the CC from the TV to the S3. I expect I'll have to call VZ and have them whack the CC, but, that should be no big deal.


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## bkdtv

Verizon FiOS fully supports the Series3. (You don't get VOD/PPV, obviously.)

FiOS has ordered multistream cards, which will eliminate the need for a second CableCard, but those won't arrive until November.


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## TampaDon

Hi.

New to this stuff. What exactly is a multistream card? Where can one be seen?

Don


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## mchad

Thanks for the follow up. Now, to sit and wait for verizon install to become available... 

FYI, I called Cablevision (Westchester, NY) and ordered two cards, which will be delivered in person on Monday (for the bargain price of $46... Great). When asked what brand of TV I had, I replied I don't know yet, I am buying them this weekend. No further question. Each card is billed at $1.25/month.


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## wdave

/subscribe -- Fios crew wiring my neighborhood this week -- can't wait to dump Comcast.


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## ah30k

David Bolling said:


> /subscribe -- Fios crew wiring my neighborhood this week -- can't wait to dump Comcast.


Laying conduit (orange tubing) or actual fiber? They laid the conduit and put in in-ground service boxes in my 'hood months ago but have not run any fiber yet. You may also need to wait for Verizon to get a franchise license for your area as well. They might just start with FiOS internet.


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## wdave

ah30k said:


> Laying conduit (orange tubing) or actual fiber? They laid the conduit and put in in-ground service boxes in my 'hood months ago but have not run any fiber yet. You may also need to wait for Verizon to get a franchise license for your area as well. They might just start with FiOS internet.


Thanks for pointing out the difference. Yes, they have press releases on their website saying they have a franchise license for my county (granted Jan 2006), and also something announcing Fios TV installation underway for my city (dated May 2006). They also hung a "coming soon" flyer on my door last week talking about all three services (voice, tv, internet). So it looks real.


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## Jonathan_S

TampaDon said:


> Hi.
> 
> New to this stuff. What exactly is a multistream card?


The original cable card can only decode one stream (basically one channel) at a time.
A multistream can can decode multiple (I think up to 5) streams (channels) at a time.

This is useful if you have a device, like an S3 TiVo, that can tune more than one channel simultaneously.

But the only difference between a multistream and non-multistream cable card is how many channels they can decode at once.


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## classicX

David Bolling said:


> Thanks for pointing out the difference. Yes, they have press releases on their website saying they have a franchise license for my county (granted Jan 2006), and also something announcing Fios TV installation underway for my city (dated May 2006). They also hung a "coming soon" flyer on my door last week talking about all three services (voice, tv, internet). So it looks real.


Link?

I'm interested in seeing if / when it will be available in my neighborhood.


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## mchad

ah30k said:


> Laying conduit (orange tubing) or actual fiber? They laid the conduit and put in in-ground service boxes in my 'hood months ago but have not run any fiber yet. You may also need to wait for Verizon to get a franchise license for your area as well. They might just start with FiOS internet.


Interesting. They have been in my building (12 floor condos) for the past month running conduits up the stairwell then into each floor. THere is also a "coming soon" notice in the mailroom. I wonder how long out it is. This all happening in downtown White Plains, NY, which is pretty metro now (Trump is even building here)

I have seen VZ trucks laying the orange conduit you mention on the streets, but I haven't seen great wheels of fiber yet.... I am surprised to hear that the conduit would be layed without fiber already in it? Sounds like double the work, no? Why not lay the fiber at the same time as the conduit...


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## ah30k

mchad said:


> Why not lay the fiber at the same time as the conduit...


They use pretty heavy machinery to bore the earth and push the conduit under streets and along curb lines. Perhaps (just a guess) this process is too rough for the fragile fiber. What is interesting in my 'hood is that they did not run conduit to each house, just the in-ground junction boxes spaced around every two or three houses. They will still need to trench to the homes.


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## mchad

ah30k said:


> They use pretty heavy machinery to bore the earth and push the conduit under streets and along curb lines. Perhaps (just a guess) this process is too rough for the fragile fiber. What is interesting in my 'hood is that they did not run conduit to each house, just the in-ground junction boxes spaced around every two or three houses. They will still need to trench to the homes.


Interesting. I actually think that individual residences don't get "fiber". I believe that fiber is run to hubs or junction boxes and copper is what actually goes to the residential installs. At least that is what a coworker told me about his father's install in NJ...


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## TexasAg

mchad said:


> Interesting. I actually think that individual residences don't get "fiber". I believe that fiber is run to hubs or junction boxes and copper is what actually goes to the residential installs. At least that is what a coworker told me about his father's install in NJ...


They run fiber to the ONT, which is the box on the outside of your house. From there, they split off the voice, data, and video.


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## dt_dc

mchad said:


> I actually think that individual residences don't get "fiber". I believe that fiber is run to hubs or junction boxes and copper is what actually goes to the residential installs. At least that is what a coworker told me about his father's install in NJ...


Fiber to the side of the house ... there's an ONT on the side of the house ... out of the ONT there's CAT5 (data, VOD), coax (linear video), twisted pair (phone) and power (for battery back-up) into the house.


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## mchad

TexasAg said:


> They run fiber to the ONT, which is the box on the outside of your house. From there, they split off the voice, data, and video.


Ok, so I wonder how they will handle apartments. There are 9 units per floor in my building, and they ran a 4" conduit up the stairwell with a 14"x10" box on each floor. From there, a smaller (2") conduit was run in the hallway above each door to the units...


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## wdave

classicX said:


> Link?
> I'm interested in seeing if / when it will be available in my neighborhood.


Community specific information is here:

Verizon in the Community

then click on the link for your specific state. They have breaking news and press releases about their rollout, as well as propaganda for communities where they may be struggling to get franchise licenses.


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## musicforme

I just got off the phone with Verizon and scheduled an install for 9/22.

Since I already have Fios Internet, they knocked $5 off the cost of the service. Here is how my bill will break down:

FiOS TV Premier $34.95
Sports Package $ 5.95
CableCard $ 2.95
CableCard $ 2.95
SD Cable Box $ 3.95

The lady I spoke with said I was the first person she spoke with about the new Tivos. She didn't blink or stutter at all when I mentioned the CableCards were going in it.


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## TexasAg

musicforme said:


> I just got off the phone with Verizon and scheduled an install for 9/22.
> 
> Since I already have Fios Internet, they knocked $5 off the cost of the service. Here is how my bill will break down:
> 
> FiOS TV Premier $34.95
> Sports Package $ 5.95
> CableCard $ 2.95
> CableCard $ 2.95
> SD Cable Box $ 3.95
> 
> The lady I spoke with said I was the first person she spoke with about the new Tivos. She didn't blink or stutter at all when I mentioned the CableCards were going in it.


Mine was hemming and hawing about how "their system doesn't work with Tivo" and "their system doesn't support Tivo." When I pushed her, she said something about the Tivo not being able to "read the data." I told her I didn't case about VOD or PPV and I'd be getting the guide data from somewhere else. She stopped real quick and set up the install date.


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## aaronw

I'd just like to reiterate for everyone that if you have FiOS (my parents do), you do not *necessarily* have FiOS TV. They are still in the process of getting TV franchises with the various counties and cities. For example, they *just* got a tentative agreement with Montgomery County, MD to offer TV:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/13/AR2006091301956.html


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## musicforme

aaronw said:


> I'd just like to reiterate for everyone that if you have FiOS (my parents do), you do not *necessarily* have FiOS TV. They are still in the process of getting TV franchises with the various counties and cities. For example, they *just* got a tentative agreement with Montgomery County, MD to offer TV:


This may be true in MD and in other states, but not in Texas.

Texas passed a law earlier in the year for a state wide franchise agreement. Verizon and AT&T (formally SWB) can both offer television service as long as they honor existing franchise agreements with the individual cities.


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## bproteau

I've been reading the various posts on Tivo compatibility with Verizon FIOS TV. Like others I'm dismayed by the small non-upgradable DVR hard drive Verizon offers. I have a Panasonic TH-58PX600U and would like to get more recording time. I have also been spoiled by Tivo's interface.

I'm still a little confused and need a couple points clarified.

(1) To get full Tivo functionality with FIOS TV it seems I'll need 2 cable cards. I assume one goes in the TIVO and one in the TV?

(2) Is anyone actually doing this and can vouch for full functionality without any channel changing lag or other problems? (I'm aware of the On Demand and PPV limitation)

I don't think I've come across a post where someone is actually doing this and having it work flawlessly. If anyone does get this working please post your experiiences and/or problems.

Regards


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## bkdtv

> (1) To get full Tivo functionality with FIOS TV it seems I'll need 2 cable cards. I assume one goes in the TIVO and one in the TV?


Both go into the Series3 -- one for each of the built-in digital cable tuners. The Series3 has two CableCard slots on the back. You do *not* need a CableCard or CableCard slot on your TV.

Note when FiOS receives stock of multistream CableCards in November, you'll only need one CableCard instead of two. A multistream CableCard is able to support multiple tuners, whereas a standard CableCard only supports one -- which is why you need two of those in the Series3.

The Series3 works great with FiOS.


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## bproteau

> Both go into the Series3 -- one for each of the built-in digital cable tuners. The Series3 has two CableCard slots on the back. You do not need a CableCard or CableCard slot on your TV.


Thanks for clarifying BKDTV.

So, it sounds like you have the exact setup described working for you. HDTV, Series 3 TIVO, 2 cable cards? Is that correct?

Have their been any guide related issues or recording problems you've seen?

Anything else to note?


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## Jazhuis

ah30k said:


> They use pretty heavy machinery to bore the earth and push the conduit under streets and along curb lines. Perhaps (just a guess) this process is too rough for the fragile fiber. What is interesting in my 'hood is that they did not run conduit to each house, just the in-ground junction boxes spaced around every two or three houses. They will still need to trench to the homes.


Most implementations run conduit far before they run anything through it, for various reasons. In an ideal situation, you run your conduit and pull/junction boxes down the length of your run. Then you come back later with the spools of fiber and the various equipment for pulling it, and pull a single run of fiber as far as it can go. Then you come back later, and do any splits/splices that you need to do.

The reason being, each splice in a fiber line has a dB loss, so you want to minimize splices as much as possible. Even better is that a single run of fiber tends to be subdivided in the cable itself: a 72-strand fiber cable may be 6 buffer tubes of 12 fibers each. That way, you can have a single buffer that runs, relatively unspliced, all the way to the end of your run, while you're breaking the others out that need to splice closer in.

Thus, it's generally a better idea to wait until all your conduit is in before you run your fiber, unless you really like using ($$$) repeaters.

</too much information about fiber>


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## Peanuthead

bkdtv said:


> The Series3 works great with FiOS.


Are you actually DOING this, as the poster asked?
I am very interested in this also, as I want to replace my FIOS DVR,
but want to make sure that there are no significant issues before
purchasing the Tivo.

Thanks.


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## classicX

musicforme said:


> I just got off the phone with Verizon and scheduled an install for 9/22.
> 
> Since I already have Fios Internet, they knocked $5 off the cost of the service. Here is how my bill will break down:
> 
> FiOS TV Premier $34.95
> Sports Package $ 5.95
> CableCard $ 2.95
> CableCard $ 2.95
> SD Cable Box $ 3.95
> 
> The lady I spoke with said I was the first person she spoke with about the new Tivos. She didn't blink or stutter at all when I mentioned the CableCards were going in it.


Wow. The TV Premier price is significantly cheaper than anything Comcast (my cable provider) offers outside of basic cable (which is just locals and public access). I'd be interested to see your channel lineup.

I have been hoping FIOS internet would be ready in my neighborhood (New Jersey) since I signed the papers to build my new house. It's been over a year now and I don't see it as being even in the planning stages. :-(

With prices like that I would jump in about 12 seconds ago.

No, that last statement didn't make any sense but you get what I meant, so _there_!


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## dcpmark

aaronw said:


> I'd just like to reiterate for everyone that if you have FiOS (my parents do), you do not *necessarily* have FiOS TV. They are still in the process of getting TV franchises with the various counties and cities.


Yeah. I've had 15/5 Fios internet service for a while here in Redondo Beach, CA, but now that the S3 is here, I am DYING to get FiosTV to replace DTV. I just spoke with a city rep, who said that they won't approve an agreement until Verizon finishes building out the fiber network over the entire city, which probably won't happen until early next year..... . Now I've got to decide whether to purchase an S3 in advance to take advantage of the limited offer S1-to-S3 lifetime service swap, or wait to see what TiVO will offer next year...


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## musicforme

classicX said:


> I'd be interested to see your channel lineup.


http://www22.verizon.com/content/fiostv/channel+lineup/channel+lineup.htm

Select TX - North Texas Area. You'll be stunned what I'm getting, I know I still am.


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## bkdtv

> Are you actually DOING this, as the poster asked?
> I am very interested in this also, as I want to replace my FIOS DVR,
> but want to make sure that there are no significant issues before
> purchasing the Tivo.


I waited an extra two days hoping to get the box cheaper via Amazon, so the answer is no, I don't have this setup yet, because my CableCard installation appointment isn't until Monday.

That said, I've had discussions the head of FiOS' engineering department and was assured 1) they've seen the Series3 working with their system, and 2) it works very well with their system, outside of VOD.

Wait until Monday if you want my personal experience w/ FiOS and the Series3.


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## bkdtv

More FiOS channel lineups for download here:

http://fioswatch.com/channel-lineups/


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## classicX

musicforme said:


> http://www22.verizon.com/content/fiostv/channel+lineup/channel+lineup.htm
> 
> Select TX - North Texas Area. You'll be stunned what I'm getting, I know I still am.


DEAR GOD. all that for $40 a month....... [heart attack=+1]

I have a deal like that with Comcast (Digital Silver for $40 per month) but that was only for six months and runs out on December 5th, when the price goes to nearly $80 per month.

And I don't even need the sports package, so I'd be fine with paying for four cablecards per month.

All the HD channels I get (except INHD1/2) plus: MTVHD, National Geographic HD, and Wealth TV HD (WHAT THE HECK IS WEALTH TV?? My wife would LOVE that channel).

Is that a lifetime price or promotional???

Plus they have THIS. Good heavens, I hope they get TV in NJ.


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## bkdtv

> Is that a lifetime price or promotional???


Service is $39.95/mo but you get $5/mo off if you also subscribe to Internet service. If you subscribe to Verizon phone service, you get another $5/mo off.

Here's the typical FiOS TV + Internet bill.










Subtract $16.90/mo off that bill if you aren't renting their DVR and set-top box.

In NY and NJ, that gets you 10Mbps Internet with 2Mbps upstream. If you want even faster Internet, 20Mbps with 5Mbps upstream is $10/mo more.


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## classicX

That's about the same price as I'm getting from Comcast with more channels and faster internet.

Anyone know if Verizon is working on getting TV in NJ? Right now it's only internet.


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## ATB

classicX said:


> That's about the same price as I'm getting from Comcast with more channels and faster internet.
> 
> Anyone know if Verizon is working on getting TV in NJ? Right now it's only internet.


Both Gov. Corzine and the Senate have finally approved Verizon's NJ state wide franchise. I think rollout is supposed to start Nov/Dec ish. Could have been if NJ gov hadn't done its usual heel dragging. I have been enjoying my FIOS internet for a while now...looking forward to a series 3 and TV.


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## bigDvette

I spent 2 hours calling Verizon and talking to techs to confirm a few things.

All Verizon Cablecards are 2.0 versions, but they only work 1 way (downstream) and not upstream and as stated earlier that means no guide and no VOD. No problem for me.

2.0 Cablecards are not the same as multistream. The Verizon cards are not multistream so you will need 2 cards to record 2 shows at once off of the digital cable. You could record one OTA or analog cable and one digital cable channel together, but not 2 digital unless you have 2 cards.

The 2 cards go in the tivo, nothing goes in the TV cablecard wise.

Whether they will send you the cards or make you pay to install them is based on your area evidentially as they are mailing me my cards. I already have 1 card. They gave me the number to call and activate the cards. Push back and you may get them to send them to you.

The fiber goes directly to your house and the ONT breaks it up in to TV, Internet and phone. TV takes longer to get than internet in most places as franchises aren't in place.

Comcast does not offer any speed close to FIOS. When you get TV they upgrade your bandwidth both down/up to 30/5. No your down is limited to what you pay, but the up goes to 5 for everyone. Not only that, but it is reliable as anything I've ever had only having obvious issues when we loose electricity.

And on that topic, I love Comcasts and the DSL companies commericals listing that you loose fios when the power is out. Well I also loose my router, computer, network disks, tivos, tv and refridgerator.

My Tivos will be here on Tuesday and my cards will be here Tuesday as well and I will post my experience.


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## TexasAg

bigDvette said:


> I spent 2 hours calling Verizon and talking to techs to confirm a few things.
> 
> All Verizon Cablecards are 2.0 versions, but they only work 1 way (downstream) and not upstream and as stated earlier that means no guide and no VOD. No problem for me.
> 
> 2.0 Cablecards are not the same as multistream. The Verizon cards are not multistream so you will need 2 cards to record 2 shows at once off of the digital cable. You could record one OTA or analog cable and one digital cable channel together, but not 2 digital unless you have 2 cards.
> 
> The 2 cards go in the tivo, nothing goes in the TV cablecard wise.
> 
> Whether they will send you the cards or make you pay to install them is based on your area evidentially as they are mailing me my cards. I already have 1 card. They gave me the number to call and activate the cards. Push back and you may get them to send them to you.
> 
> The fiber goes directly to your house and the ONT breaks it up in to TV, Internet and phone. TV takes longer to get than internet in most places as franchises aren't in place.
> 
> Comcast does not offer any speed close to FIOS. When you get TV they upgrade your bandwidth both down/up to 30/5. No your down is limited to what you pay, but the up goes to 5 for everyone. Not only that, but it is reliable as anything I've ever had only having obvious issues when we loose electricity.
> 
> And on that topic, I love Comcasts and the DSL companies commericals listing that you loose fios when the power is out. Well I also loose my router, computer, network disks, tivos, tv and refridgerator.
> 
> My Tivos will be here on Tuesday and my cards will be here Tuesday as well and I will post my experience.


This has been discussed many times here on the forums. There are no 2.0 cablecards out yet. In fact, there are no multistream 1.0 cards out yet. The only cards out are unidirectional 1.0 cards.

You can tell the tech was wrong since he said the 2.0 cards were not bidirectional. That's the whole point of 2.0 - bidirectional communication.

These are simply 1.0 CC.

FYI - Please let us know how it goes. My cablecard install in scheduled for Friday. And please PM me the phone number they gave you. I might need it (if my tech is having problems)! Thanks.


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## bigDvette

What the tech said is that they don't enable the upstream capabilities of the 2.0 card yet. He pulled out a bunch of manuals to read a bunch of specs to me. He may have been stating that they won't enable 2 way communication. I will have 3 cards in my hands tomorrow and I will compare to the card in my Tv which I know is 1.0 and post the model number on the card.

There are definitely no multi-stream 1.0 or 2.0 cards yet.

I'll admit I could be wrong, but in either case verizon does not have multistream cards nor do they allow for 2 way communication. That I think we all agree on.

Tivo's arrived today, but no cards yet from Verizon. I could pull my TV one out, but I'll give it another day.


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## TexasAg

bigDvette said:


> What the tech said is that they don't enable the upstream capabilities of the 2.0 card yet. He pulled out a bunch of manuals to read a bunch of specs to me. He may have been stating that they won't enable 2 way communication. I will have 3 cards in my hands tomorrow and I will compare to the card in my Tv which I know is 1.0 and post the model number on the card.
> 
> There are definitely no multi-stream 1.0 or 2.0 cards yet.
> 
> I'll admit I could be wrong, but in either case verizon does not have multistream cards nor do they allow for 2 way communication. That I think we all agree on.
> 
> Tivo's arrived today, but no cards yet from Verizon. I could pull my TV one out, but I'll give it another day.


Good luck - I'm still waiting on my S3 from Tivo and hoping I get it before my CableCARD install on Friday. I've loved Verizon's TV service and really hope the install goes well and everything works with the S3. Please keep us posted!


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## terramar

I had 4 cable cards installed in a pair of S3's yesterday. Verizon wouldn't send out the cards, they had to roll somebody out for an install. He'd done only one or two other cable installs, and had never heard of a Tivo that used cablecards. He just handed them over to me and stood back.

Installation went fine. I went through the documented steps and installed the cards. I went ahead and put both cards in at once in each of the two S3s, while he plugged his laptop in and logged in to a verizon site to enable the cards. It took just a few minutes, and we were receiving all channels just fine. No problems, no hiccups.

Picture quality is terrific, and everything is working just as it should. If there are no problems in the next week, then I'm canceling DirecTV. Anybody needs some HDVR2's?


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## joegarrett

Just wanted to provide some info on Verizon FIOS. I don't have a S3 at this time but instead use the FIOS DVR. When we've got 2 shows recording and want to watch something live we can't unless we use OTA and then only locals. So, because my TV (JVC HD-52G886) has a cablecard slot I called Verizon and ordered a cablecard to go into the TV so now we'll be able to record 2 shows and watch a live show.

Ordering the CC from Verizon was easy and cost $2.95 per month, I believe.

Also, I did explain to the tech that people could be calling in for 2 CC for the new S3. He hadn't heard of it but was writing down what I was telling him to pass to supervisor for distribution to other techs.

For what it's worth.


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## musicforme

terramar said:


> Picture quality is terrific, and everything is working just as it should.


I have my install scheduled for tomorrow and hope to report similar results. I can't wait to get all the additional HD channels for only $6 more than Comcast's basic service.


----------



## BobCamp1

bigDvette said:


> Comcast does not offer any speed close to FIOS.
> 
> I love Comcasts and the DSL companies commericals listing that you loose fios when the power is out. Well I also loose my router, computer, network disks, tivos, tv and refridgerator.


The need for speed is why cable cos. are deploying SDV ASAP. Very stiff competition from Verizon.

You will lose all Internet service when the power goes out. Your POTS phones (i.e. ones not using VoIP) will work for six hours, as there is a UPS inside the ONT on the side of your house. After that, you'll have to (gasp) use your cell phone.

I've been in hurricanes where the power and phone came back on in 24 hours, but the cable was out for weeks. Fortunately, I had DirecTV. BTW, have you seen THOSE commercials?


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## legalaliens

terramar said:


> Picture quality is terrific, and everything is working just as it should. If there are no problems in the next week, then I'm canceling DirecTV. Anybody needs some HDVR2's?


Did you compare the PQ with the S3/Cablecards to the PQ with the FiOS HD boxes (the Motorola DVR and the Motorola HD Receiver)?

What I'm getting at is, along time ago, somebody posted something somewhere (sorry I'm not more specific, but my memory really sucks!) that insinuated that the Motorola boxes provided by Verizon are not able to completely render the full resolution of the received signal. In other words, while the FiOS infrastructure delivers channels at full bandwidth, their STB's don't deliver full bandwidth to your TV.


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## bproteau

> I had 4 cable cards installed in a pair of S3's yesterday. Verizon wouldn't send out the cards, they had to roll somebody out for an install. He'd done only one or two other cable installs, and had never heard of a Tivo that used cablecards. He just handed them over to me and stood back.


Sounds great terramar! I've been waiting for this kind of post. Please update your experiences after a weeks use.

I wanted to verify there are no guide related issues (i.e. You see all the channels you'd expect to see and no issues scheduling recordings or season passes.)

Glad everything went smooth.


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## musicforme

Verizon is here now. The installer wasn't told he needed CableCards, so someone is bringing them out to the house while he's here. He doesn't have a problem with me putting them in the Tivo, but he was trying to sell Verizon's dvr pretty hard.

He's currently working on the side of the house and I'll post more once he's finished.


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## soulposition

VZ CableCard install is finally done after 10 hours. I'm so happy to have ditched that piece of **** Moto box and have my beloved TiVo back. After only playing with it for a few hours I'm ready to replace the other Moto box with an S3 this weekend.

Turns out that when the installer gets his list of jobs in the morning they don't really read what they have todo. So when my installer saw he had a "C" order he just assumed it was a change order (which technically it was) but didn't know he had to bring CableCards, so of course he had to go get those. 

When he got back and we installed them, he ended up talking to a trainee that ended up screwing up the whole deal. This involved me having to have several orders created for my cards. Only to find out after 9 hours that the major problem was that the original DVR was not taken off my account. I have no idea why that would be the problem but once that was removed my cards worked beautifully. 

What I love about the TiVo over the Motorola box:

- Menus are faster, like blazingly faster.
- Picture seems clearer (even on SD channels). 

What I miss about the Motorola box: Nothing.


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## terramar

No guide-related problems, and no troubles scheduling recordings.

I haven't really compared the PQ with the verizon box. I switched to fios tv simultaneously with getting the S3s. I had them put in a box, but quite honestly, except for a few minutes of playing around with the VOD features, I haven't used it. Once my full new home theater setup is done (still working on the component video matrix switching for the other TVs in the house), I'll show the VOD stuff to my wife. If she can live without it (and I'm certain she can - we never do PPV even, since we always have plenty to watch on the Tivos), we'll send the box back.

Tom


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## musicforme

musicforme said:


> He's currently working on the side of the house and I'll post more once he's finished.


Well, I thought all was going well earlier this afternoon. *I actually got a phone call from someone at Verizon reading this message thread.* He wanted to make sure all was going well with the install and walked the tech through the process.

I thought it was all going ok and let the Verizon tech go before the guided setup finished. It completed earlier and the Tivo said it wasn't able to get the channels from the CableCard.

Once my wife finishes watching ER, I'm going to call Verizon and start the troubleshooting process with them.


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## legalaliens

soulposition said:


> What I love about the TiVo over the Motorola box:
> 
> - Menus are faster, like blazingly faster.
> - Picture seems clearer (even on SD channels).
> 
> What I miss about the Motorola box: Nothing.


Picture seems clearer? I know it is difficult without doing a side by side comparison, but can you really see an improvement in PQ (both HD and SD)?

I really like FiOS TV. The HD is great and the price is right. I have been disappointed in the SD PQ. I had hoped the Motorola STB's were the problem because I've always intended to upgrade to the S3 anyway.


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## musicforme

musicforme said:


> Once my wife finishes watching ER, I'm going to call Verizon and start the troubleshooting process with them.


I'm up and running now. Just to be sure I didn't have a bad CableCard, we put one of them in my tv to make sure it worked.

He remarried them to my Tivo and went through the guided setup and it started working. As a side note, the "test channels" part of the CableCard menu never worked for me.

One of the best parts of the call is when the tech asked for the number I was calling from in case we got disconnected.


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## mlkeller

Yeah, went a little rough here in Northern VA, but it's almost working now. When tech first came, he said they did an install in a S3 yesterday and the cable cards did not work, plus they only had one the warehouse (despite the fact that we put the order in for 2 cards a week and a half ago), so they could only setup one today. Also was not willing to put it into the S3, just was going to activate the card and leave it for us (ended up having to stay for us to plug in since needed number from card to activate). Despite that, still was not working when he left (same error about not able to retrieve channels).

A few more calls to Vz tech support and we finally were put in touch with the person who "is working on creating the procedures for cable cards since we are just starting to get more orders for them" and it turned out they entered something wrong earlier during the activation. He keyed something and presto, it worked.

A bit miffed about only having one card, but we'll fix that when cust support opens Monday... they need to get their act together b/c I'm sure more cablecard orders are coming (the S3 is _SO_ much better than their buggy DVR)


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## Ken7

I just installed a Series 3 with FIOS. One thing that I've noticed around the internet is that many people wind up comparing the PQ of the Series 3 via HDMI to their old PVR that used component. I don't believe this is a fair comparison. My old Motorola FIOS box was hooked up via HDMI and that's the way I've got the Series 3 connected.

I don't yet have the cable cards installed, but I did scan for OTA HD channels and compared the picture on those to the FIOS HD Broadcast channels on the Motorola box. The pictures were essentially identical. This shows the improvement in PQ of the new Series 3 vs what I used to get with D*'s HD Tivo. Using D*'s Tivo via OTA HD, I found the PQ was never the match for non-Tivo HD D* receivers. The other thing it shows is just how good the PQ (via HDMI) of the Motorola box combined with FIOS's transmission of network HD channels is. 

The only negative thus far is the somewhat longer channel changes vs. the Motorola DVR. Hopefully the cable card install will go smoothly.


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## TexasAg

I had the Motorola hooked up via HDMI, and I can say that Fios SD is much better on the S3 than on the Motorola. I really wouldn't expect HD to be any different. And I haven't noticed a slower channel change. If anything it is slightly faster.

Been running with 2 CableCARDs since yesterday. Absolutely no problems, just great picture!


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## legalaliens

TexasAg said:


> I had the Motorola hooked up via HDMI, and I can say that Fios SD is much better on the S3 than on the Motorola. I really wouldn't expect HD to be any different.


Thanks! That is what I was hoping to hear. SD on the Motorola (at least on my setup) is not very good.


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## Ken7

Please remember when comparing SD on any box, the important question is how do you have the signal output from the box? As an example, I always set my HD boxes to ouput 1080i all the time, regardless of the channel's resolution. In a case like that, you won't see much if any difference in picture quality between units.


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## joegarrett

A quick update!

Verizon dropped off a Moto 4.21 CC on Sunday. I got around to installing and activating last night. Spent about 15-20 minutes on phone with tech. He got the CC authorized and now I'm receiving all subscribed channels on my JVC 52G886.
I also have a Moto DVR connected via HDMI. Having been a DTiVo user until Jan 2006, there are a few things I miss about TiVo but I've become use to the Moto DVR and the price of the S3 + monthly fee + programming fee really don't make sense to me at this point. IMHO  

The Verizon tech did ask me if I was putting the CC in an S3, but wished that TiVo had sent out tester units so the cable companies could have some training with them before rollout. Sounds like Verizon is becoming familiar with the S3 and CC's.


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## Ken7

Joe, don't you find it a pain not knowing what channel you're on and not having the program info? I know what you mean about the total cost of the S3 and carrying fees. It doesn't make sense that it actually costs more on a monthly basis even after you buy the thing! 

On another note, I'll be carefully watching this S3 audio dropout issue. I'm still only using it for OTA HD until the CCs come. If it continues I may well return the unit and stay with the Motorola. I should be getting my CC on Monday. It's funny how FIOS has been very quick to come to my house on virtually anything, but with the CC appointment it was a week later. I guess they're not too anxious to give these things out.

Interestingly they originally told me I could have only 1 CC since I already have 6 boxes (4 HD and 2 SD). They told me I was maxed out. I then told them to remove 1 Motorola PVR and that cleared up the issue. I was really hoping to keep the Motorola for a month or so to see if the S3 measured up and if not, just plug the Motorola back in. No such luck.


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## joegarrett

Ken7 said:


> Joe, don't you find it a pain not knowing what channel you're on and not having the program info?


Do you mean no guide on the TV? Not really, the only time we flip over to the TV is if we have 2 recordings going and want to watch something live. It's there more for the exception than the rule. :up:


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## Beetlejuice

I just ordered the S3 tivo and set up service with Verizon. Prices were in line with what I've read on this page... to the penny. I was amazed however, that the woman who took the call still had not been informed by her Verizon management that there was a new Tivo in town. I had to explain to her about the dual cable card setup but she was familiar with cable card ready TVs and such. So, at least that didn't phase her.

I was also amazed that she really didn't care what I was plugging them into and when I asked about plugging them in the Tvio and what number should I call to activate them, she said they would already be activated and I would not have to do anything. We'll see!!

But I'm glad all you folks here in this room have been the brave souls to go out on this leap of faith so skeptics like me can learn from from your experiences. 

I'll post the results when they happen.


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## TexasAg

Beetlejuice said:


> I just ordered the S3 tivo and set up service with Verizon. Prices were in line with what I've read on this page... to the penny. I was amazed however, that the woman who took the call still had not been informed by her Verizon management that there was a new Tivo in town. I had to explain to her about the dual cable card setup but she was familiar with cable card ready TVs and such. So, at least that didn't phase her.
> 
> I was also amazed that she really didn't care what I was plugging them into and when I asked about plugging them in the Tvio and what number should I call to activate them, she said they would already be activated and I would not have to do anything. We'll see!!
> 
> But I'm glad all you folks here in this room have been the brave souls to go out on this leap of faith so skeptics like me can learn from from your experiences.
> 
> I'll post the results when they happen.


She's wrong - Verizon will need to know the pairing (the cablecard serial number and the corresponding number from the Tivo) for each card before you can get service.


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## Beetlejuice

TexasAg said:


> She's wrong - Verizon will need to know the pairing (the cablecard serial number and the corresponding number from the Tivo) for each card before you can get service.


That's what I'm figuring too. It didn't sound right but I learned a long time ago to not argue with a wall. The wall will win every time. ;-)

I'll be here when the tech does the install.

If it sounds too good to be true....


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## terramar

TexasAg said:


> She's wrong - Verizon will need to know the pairing (the cablecard serial number and the corresponding number from the Tivo) for each card before you can get service.


 I don't know - maybe I was just being dense, but the installer who came to my house sat there with his laptop and only entered in info from the cable cards - he didn't take down any of the numbers from my S3 screen to activate the card. I could have missed him doing it, but given that he seemed somewhat afraid of the TiVo, I think I would have noticed him staring at the screen and writing stuff down.


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## TexasAg

Maybe Verizon is doing something weird, but CableCARDs normally don't work unless the cable system can match each card's serial number with the number provided by the Tivo or other device. I know my installer did write down the numbers and entered them into Verizon's system.


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## wbradney

classicX said:


> That's about the same price as I'm getting from Comcast with more channels and faster internet.
> 
> Anyone know if Verizon is working on getting TV in NJ? Right now it's only internet.


They're going door-to-door in Morris Plains signing people up for FIOS. I asked when TV was going to be available and the guy said "early November".

I just got through with my Cablevision CableCard install today, and it's working great, but I'd love to switch to FIOS Internet & TV. By my reckoning my monthly bill will drop from about $140 to about $80, for a faster connection that's still S3-compatible. Hell, I might even switch from Lingo to Verizon for my VOIP if I can save a bit more and get billed all at once. And then there's always the feeling of sticking it to the cable company (although I'm sure Verizon's customer support will become just as crappy once they gain some traction in TV).


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## PatMcNJ

"I have been hoping FIOS internet would be ready in my neighborhood (New Jersey) since I signed the papers to build my new house. It's been over a year now and I don't see it as being even in the planning stages. :-(
"

It depends upon where you are in NJ. I am in Monmouth County, we were wired up over the summer by Verizon (my development aleady had all utilites underground). Trucks were here for several weeks...... We have been told we will be among the earliest to be switched on, November perhaps. I sure HOPE so. 

Then I want to get my Series 3, and switch to FIOS.


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## musicforme

Have any of you had problems with your standard def channels being garbage? We tried to watch "PGA Sunday" on the USA channel this morning and it was crap. It looked like a bad satellite feed or something. A couple episodes of "A Baby Story" that my wife watches had the same problem.

We never had a problem with any of those shows on Comcast, and she's starting to elude to wanting to switch back to Comcast.


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## evlg

Just ordered FIOS TV to go with my new Series 3 that I picked up today at the Fry's in Plano, TX

The order on the phone went very smooth. I told the CSR that I wanted 2 Cablecards and 1 STB for the other room and she was very helpful. She did give the speech about VOD and Guide Data, but didn't try to pressure me or anything.

Scheduled for install next Wednesday, can't wait!

For now I have the TiVo hooked up to an antenna for OTA recording, but the reception here isn't very good for all the locals. Getting all the channels in HD will be really excellent.


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## snathanb

evlg said:


> For now I have the TiVo hooked up to an antenna for OTA recording, but the reception here isn't very good for all the locals. Getting all the channels in HD will be really excellent.


What part of town are you in that reception isn't good? I live 45 miles from the broadcast towers (about 10 miles east of Wylie) and I get very good reception on every digital station in town.


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## musicforme

musicforme said:


> Have any of you had problems with your standard def channels being garbage? We tried to watch "PGA Sunday" on the USA channel this morning and it was crap. It looked like a bad satellite feed or something. A couple episodes of "A Baby Story" that my wife watches had the same problem.


Well, it looks like the problem I described above is a bit worse than I originally thought. I went through all my standard def channels, and there are around 20 of them that are unwatchable regardless of the day or hour.

I checked several of those same channels on my standard-def box and they come through just fine. I also tried switching tuners on the Tivo wondering maybe I had a bad tuner, but that didn't help either. I plan on calling Verizon this weekend once I have some free time to sit on the phone with them.


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## Ilene

Verizon is out here today installing my Fios Internet and TV. I switched from TW mainly because Megazone said it works with Verizon Fios in the FAQ. The installer just about stroked out when I asked if he had cablecards, he didn't. Had to call a manager to bring them out. Only brought 2 because he said that is all that they can get at a time. Both of them are insisting that they will not work. I am praying that if I follow the instructions that came with the TiVo box and the ones that were posted in another thread, that it will work. 
All the while I am trying to understand why TiVo would design a box to use technology that cable companies are seem so reluctant to support. 

I really need the name and number of the Verizon tech that another poster got such good help with. 

More to come when they are finished.


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## ah30k

Ilene said:


> All the while I am trying to understand why TiVo would design a box to use technology that cable companies are seem so reluctant to support.


TiVo is selling a product/service that threaten revenue streams (VOD etc) for the cable companies. It is no surprise to me that the MSOs are reluctant to support the CableCARD. TiVo still has a right to sell product into that environment.


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## evlg

snathanb said:
 

> What part of town are you in that reception isn't good? I live 45 miles from the broadcast towers (about 10 miles east of Wylie) and I get very good reception on every digital station in town.


I'm in Plano and can't get ABC to come in worth a damn. Tried several antennas and orientations but couldn't get a good signal. Not sure where the interference is coming from.

NBC is pretty good, CBS good, FOX good, PBS OK but not great. The other random channels like 33 and 27 are also OK but not great.

Can't wait to get FIOS installed to avoid these problems altogether.


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## Ilene

This is a continuation of my previous thread. The entire process of rewiring for telephone, internet and cable took about 7 hours. It took nearly 2 hours to get the cablecards to work. I had printed out an article that another forum member recommended: http://techdigs.net/content/view/46/42. While it is very Comcast focused, we were able to glean enough info to help. It would have been nice if the instructions that TiVo says to hand to the installer was actually complete, but it really wasn't.

Hopefully this will help:
1) Ask for the cablecards and *write down * the Serial Number (SN) and the UnitAddress (UA) that is on each of the cards. Your installer will need to repeat the numbers over and over. 
2) Make note of which one you put in the bottom slot, this cablecard 1. 
3) When you put the card in the bottom slot, a screen will show up with the card in green. I waited several minutes just staring at this screen and nothing happened. There is an option for Configure Card 1, so I decided to select it.
4) A black screen with white information shows up. This is the MMI screen that TiVo has a picture of in their instructions. According to the info in the techdig article, the HOST and DATA numbers are critical. 
5) The tech will need to provide the Host and Data info to the guy on the phone. It will take that person several tries to type the long string of numbers and letters. 
6) Because they could not do one and then the other, I had to put CC2 in before we finished with CC1. 
7) The screen pops up showing 2 CCs in green and there is a new option for Configure CC2. We waited a few minutes before I selected the Configure CC2. The HOST and DATA information are unique for each CC.
8) It appeared that the person on the phone had a lot of trouble keeping the information straight between the 2 cards. He kept mixing the Host and Data information between the 2 different serial numbers. Since I couldn't see the screen he had to enter this into, I can't comment on why this was so difficult. 
9) I can tell you that they had to reenter this information many times. I heard that they were getting an error message, but I could not find out what the message was. The TiVo Config screens time out, so I had to go through the TiVo Central menu many times to get back to the CC screens. 
10) When they are successful, TiVo will automatically go to the Test Channel screen. For me this happened to CC1. All of the sudden the TV station it is testing appears in the background. We told them to stop messing with it because whatever they did, it was working. 
11) We asked them to do whatever, to the second card. They did and the TiVo screen changed to the Test Channel screen automatically.

I am up and running. So far everything is working the way it is supposed to although I have a ton of rehooking and unhooking to do.


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## musicforme

musicforme said:


> I plan on calling Verizon this weekend once I have some free time to sit on the phone with them.


I spoke with a Fios tech support guy tonight. We tried a couple things with the CableCards (including testing them in my tv) and he thinks I have at least one bad CableCard, possibly both of them.

He tried resetting both of them and the USA channel (and others) still came through garbled.

I really hope they get something figured out. My wife is none too pleased that some of her shows aren't watchable due to a handful of garbled channels.


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## Beetlejuice

musicforme said:


> Well, it looks like the problem I described above is a bit worse than I originally thought. I went through all my standard def channels, and there are around 20 of them that are unwatchable regardless of the day or hour.
> 
> I checked several of those same channels on my standard-def box and they come through just fine. I also tried switching tuners on the Tivo wondering maybe I had a bad tuner, but that didn't help either. I plan on calling Verizon this weekend once I have some free time to sit on the phone with them.


I just got Verizon over on Friday in Lewisville, TX to install fios tv. The installation of the cards was fairly painless and the installer didn't need the CC info provided by the Tivo box. Either they already had the numbers from the CC or they used the address of the ONT network terminal outside. The installer just called in and told the office to "turn on the premiere channels" and they did. That being said...

The recepeption on all of the verizon provided local SD channels on cable are crap. When the channel is changed to the local SC cable channel, it looks great for about 5 seconds and then starts pixelating and dropping audio really bad. This is on every local cable channel. The only "locals" that come in clear are channel 6 which is WGN and any cable only provided local access info channels with no OTA transmission. Of course WGN does not have an OTA channel in Texas either. This is very odd because EVERY verizon cable channel above 30 comes in crystal clear with no interference whatsoever. I think the cable cards are working fine. If they were "bad", then I really think I would be having problems on other cable only channels. But this only happens on the S3 with CCs. The Vz STB going into a S1 Tivo does not have this problem.

So, at least here in the Lewisville-Grapevine area, it would seem logical to conclude that the local channels that are getting bad reception on cable are probably getting interference from the OTA channels of the same or even adjacent frequencies. This problem was happening when the installer was here so we tried a lot of different things to try and rule out on-premise interference. We ran a dedicated coax directly to the Tivo to rule out other jacks acting as an antenna, I turned off all my 2.4, 5.8 GHz phones, all electronic equipment in my entertainment center except for the TV of course. Heck I even turned off the microwave and refrigerator. We ensured that the ONT was properly grounded.

AFter talking to the Vz, level 2 support, the tech engineer recommended that the ONT be replaced with a model that is being used for new fios installations. My ONT was installed early last year when we got fios internet.

So... Is the ONT really the problem? Who knows. I believe that Lewisville and Grapevine both use the service out of Keller. At least that was the only Verizon option on the Tivo guided setup. Is the interference being interjected at the ONT or is the interference actually being transmitted by the central office over the fios. It doesn't matter where it enters the systems, the fiber optic can transmit that just as easily as cable. Of course the RF interference cannot be picked up by the fiber optic cable.

I haven't called Tivo to report this problem yet but will do so tomorrow. I suppose the real question is... Is it Verizon's problem for providing an interference signal or is it Tivo's problem for not recognizing that this could be a problem on local channels and not adequately filtering the OTA from the cable input? I think this has the potential of getting a little messy. At the moment I do not have a commitment from Verizon regarding the replacement ONT but will post what happens.


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## bkdtv

Channel numbers <50 on FiOS are analog and the quality is not particularly good.

You will want to remove all channel numbers <50 from the guide and use the digital versions of the locals in the 800s.


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## Beetlejuice

bkdtv said:


> Channel numbers <50 on FiOS are analog and the quality is not particularly good.
> 
> You will want to remove all channel numbers <50 from the guide and use the digital versions of the locals in the 800s.


This is true... but there are a couple of annoyances that can occur when it comes to that solution. That's not really a fix, but merely a work-around. Hopefully a temporary one.

1. In the event that a local channel broadcasts a program in letterboxed 780p 4x3, the picture on my nice 48" plasma shows up as a little bity picture with letterbox and side panels. My monitor has no adjustment for this when vewing 780p. This is annoying. With a clear SD signal, my TV can go into Widescreen mode and chop the letterbox and side panels, allowing the full 48" screen to be used. Maybe if I had a later model TV this wouldn't be a problem, but that ain't happenin' for some time.

2. Also, If I want to record a 780p program with side panels onto a VCR or standard DVD, the picture is downconverted ok and will record, but.... when this is played back on a standard TV the picture, with side panels, is squeezed into a 4x3 ratio making everything look tall and thin. The SD channel doesn't have this problem.

3. And last but not least, I don't enjoy paying money for something that doesn't work the way it is supposed to. I have faith that this will be rectified and in the meantime will use my S1 Tivo to record things that I might potentially want to record or view as a full-screen.

But thanks for the suggestion.


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## bkdtv

> 1. In the event that a local channel broadcasts a program in letterboxed 780p 4x3, the picture on my nice 48" plasma shows up as a little bity picture with letterbox and side panels. My monitor has no adjustment for this when vewing 780p. This is annoying. With a clear SD signal, my TV can go into Widescreen mode and chop the letterbox and side panels, allowing the full 48" screen to be used. Maybe if I had a later model TV this wouldn't be a problem, but that ain't happenin' for some time.


Tivo really needs to provide the option to crop off the side bars and zoom letterbox content broadcast on the HD channels. The SA8300HD already does that, so I'm not sure why Tivo didn't include that capability.


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## Beetlejuice

That would be nice. But I think ideally, if replacing the ONT doesn't fix the local SD interference(or other) problem, the Tivo engineers should get with the Verizon engineers and find out what's going on. From what I've seen here, this doesn't seem like an isolated incident. I hope Verizon will change the ONT as recommended. If they do, I will certainly let you guys know.

And just for record, I used the Tivo cable input signal level check to make sure that it wasn't just due to a low level signal. It's running at 98%. It doesn't get much stronger than that.

And also for the record, so far Verizon has been very willing to help and has not passed the buck or pointed any fingers. The installer that came to the house was very thorough as well as patient waiting for me to install the cable cards and go through the guided setup.

I wish I had a cable card TV to see if the same local SD problem happens on the TV and not just on the Tivo. Hmmmm!


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## acvthree

bkdtv said:


> Tivo really needs to provide the option to crop off the side bars and zoom letterbox content broadcast on the HD channels. The SA8300HD already does that, so I'm not sure why Tivo didn't include that capability.


Doesn't the Tivo Aspect -> zoom do this?

I don't have an S3, but the manual sounds like this is the correct function.

Al


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## bkdtv

> Doesn't the Tivo Aspect -> zoom do this?
> 
> I don't have an S3, but the manual sounds like this is the correct function.


The S3's aspect modes only work on SD channels. The aspect modes will zoom letterboxed SD content to fill the screen, but not the [relatively rare] letterboxed SD content _that is upconverted to HD_.


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## acvthree

A hi-def set top box that doesn't do hi-def aspect ratio?

Is this assumed to be a permanent restriction?

Al


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## musicforme

Beetlejuice said:


> The recepeption on all of the verizon provided local SD channels on cable are crap. When the channel is changed to the local SC cable channel, it looks great for about 5 seconds and then starts pixelating and dropping audio really bad. This is on every local cable channel. The only "locals" that come in clear are channel 6 which is WGN and any cable only provided local access info channels with no OTA transmission. Of course WGN does not have an OTA channel in Texas either. This is very odd because EVERY verizon cable channel above 30 comes in crystal clear with no interference whatsoever. I think the cable cards are working fine. If they were "bad", then I really think I would be having problems on other cable only channels. But this only happens on the S3 with CCs. The Vz STB going into a S1 Tivo does not have this problem.


You have my sympathy. I have around 15 channels that are crap. Just so happens that two of them have shows my wife watches on a regular basis.

If you have a case number from your call with Verizon, could you please PM it to me so my tech appointment on Tuesday could reference it if replacing my CableCards doesn't fix my problem?

I also have one of the old ONTs. I've had Fios Internet since March 2005.


----------



## Beetlejuice

musicforme said:


> If you have a case number from your call with Verizon, could you please PM it to me so my tech appointment on Tuesday could reference it if replacing my CableCards doesn't fix my problem?


No, unfortunately I don't have a case number. I didn't call it in. Well, not yet anyway. This was all a verbal transaction between me and the installer who had the 2nd level support on the phone. He said he was going to submit that order based on the recommendation. He was already above and beyond the call of duty. It was 7PM and he was on his own time and not getting paid. A real trooper.. I'm going to call in and report this officially tomorrow or Tuesday and report what happened... just to make sure that there is a paper trail. Well, a virtual paper trail anyway. 

I promise to keep you updated. Let us know if the CC replacements do anything. I don't think it's the cards but , hey, you never know.


----------



## musicforme

Beetlejuice said:


> I promise to keep you updated. Let us know if the CC replacements do anything. I don't think it's the cards but , hey, you never know.


I doubt it is the cards too. One of them worked just fine in my tv and the crap channels worked just fine. We tried using that "good" one in the Tivo and the crap channels were still crap.

I'll definately post here on Tuesday with the results of the tech's visit.


----------



## snathanb

bkdtv said:


> The S3's aspect modes only work on SD channels. The aspect modes will zoom letterboxed SD content to fill the screen, but not the [relatively rare] letterboxed SD content _that is upconverted to HD_.


Actually, if you set the TV type to 4:3, then the aspect stretch modes will work during HD broadcasts.

Since several of the local OTA channels here broadcast 4:3 content with sidebars, I keep my Tivo set to 4:3 all the time so that I can cycle throught the stretch modes when necessary. On my set during true 16:9 HD broadcasts there is so very little difference between what the TIVO puts out in 16:9 and 4:3 modes, that it is not worth switching it all the time.

The Samsung SIR-T151 that the Tivo replaced does the exact same thing, only will stretch when in 4:3 mode.


----------



## acvthree

Does that really accomplish the same thing?

Is there a descrete code for 16:9 to 4:3 swap?

So, this sounds like the hardware is capable, but the software restricts zoom on HD in 16:9 mode.

Is there anyone with contacts within Tivo that could ask if they are planning on removing this restriction in a future software release?

Al


----------



## musicforme

If anyone was waiting to hear the results of my tech appointment today, I had to reschedule it to this Friday. I had some stuff come up at work and today wasn't a good day for me to be out of the office.


----------



## Beetlejuice

snathanb said:


> Actually, if you set the TV type to 4:3, then the aspect stretch modes will work during HD broadcasts.
> 
> Since several of the local OTA channels here broadcast 4:3 content with sidebars, I keep my Tivo set to 4:3 all the time so that I can cycle throught the stretch modes when necessary. On my set during true 16:9 HD broadcasts there is so very little difference between what the TIVO puts out in 16:9 and 4:3 modes, that it is not worth switching it all the time.


I tried that. EXCELLENT!! Using the 4x3 setting for a nice wide screen TV defies all logic, but it works. I compared the difference while watching the live Today show this morning which is now in 1080i HD. I couldn't tell one single bit of difference in the quality. And, like you say, the aspect ration button works with this setup. But when you think about it, the quality really shouldn't be any different. The setting is only for the aspect ratio, not the resolution. So, I'm sold. Thanks for the tip.

Tivo... this should be in the user manual. The AR button is talked about in general but this scenario should be included.


----------



## Ilene

evlg said:


> Just ordered FIOS TV to go with my new Series 3 that I picked up today at the Fry's in Plano, TX
> 
> The order on the phone went very smooth. I told the CSR that I wanted 2 Cablecards and 1 STB for the other room and she was very helpful. She did give the speech about VOD and Guide Data, but didn't try to pressure me or anything.
> 
> Scheduled for install next Wednesday, can't wait!
> 
> For now I have the TiVo hooked up to an antenna for OTA recording, but the reception here isn't very good for all the locals. Getting all the channels in HD will be really excellent.


Is no news, good news? I am sure that you did not get the same tech as I did because he acted like he never wanted to do it again, but I told him that now he knew how to do it and it wouldn't take him as long.


----------



## musicforme

Well, the short story is that I'm still getting crap on the same signals.

The tech from Verizon had zero experience with CableCards which didn't surprise me. He took a new coax cable plugged it into the outlet behind my tv and into his tester. The signal tested out fine, so one possible cause was eliminated.

He then proceeded to run that same coax cable to my tv and tried out both CableCards in it. All the channels that were crap on the Tivo were clear as could be.

At this point he said that everything that Verizon had to provide was functional, but he was willing to hang around while I called Tivo tech support. The lady on the phone was adament that if it were a Tivo problem that if one channel didn't work, then none of them would. We explained to her that we verified that both CCs worked in my Tv. She asked to check the signal level and it bounced from the mid-80s to the low 90s.

We then proceeded to try a different HDMI cable and try a component cable to remove those as possibilities. No change, still crap on the same channels. At this point the Verizon guy said that he thought it was the Tivo and that he needed to leave. I didn't disagree with him and was thinking the same thing.

Once he left, the tech at Tivo asked me to reboot my S3. I pulled the power cable per her instructions and got the screen that the system was being updated, so that added some time to the reboot. 

Once it came back up we checked the crap channels, and they were still crap. At this point she asked if it were possible to run a coax directly from the side of my house to the Tivo to be sure it wasn't a signal issue. I informed her that I have Fios and it wasn't going to get any clearer and what she was asking for wasn't possible.

She then started to state that the Tivo uses a small part of the signal which lowers it when you're using the live tv. I'm not sure if this is true or not, but it sounds like a bunch of bunk to me. I've always been under the impression when watching live tv, you're watching it from a buffer on the hard drive.

Now that we had exhausted the things to try, the line got pretty quiet. She started to ask when I bought it and where. I told her I bought it at Frys and was pretty sure I was beyond my window to return it, plus I wasn't sure where my receipt it located. After outlining for her everything we had tried, she agreed to exchange my S3.

After sitting on hold for a while for level 2, I finally got a RMA and an ETA of receiving an "advanced exchange" in approx 7 to 10 business days. Once I get the new S3, I'll revisit this thread and let y'all know if those channels work or not.


----------



## TexasAg

Anybody noticing their S3 breaking up slightly on HD channels? When I watch some shows (usually channels 801-810), they sometimes will pixelate/macroblock somewhat, then settle down, then do it again. This can last entire shows. It's never the entire picture, just parts of it. Sometimes it actually loses audio when it's doing this. 

I've never noticed it on channels 811+, and I don't think it's happened on any SD channels. It also doesn't do it all the time. 

I've swapped tuners during a show where it was happening and it continued. My signal strength was usually 100, so I tried putting a 9db attenuator (a 3db and a 6db) before the Tivo. That dropped the signal strength to around 96 or 97, but it still did it. 

I'm wondering if others have seen this or if it's a problem with my TV line or my S3.


----------



## JohnBrowning

TexasAg said:


> Anybody noticing their S3 breaking up slightly on HD channels? When I watch some shows (usually channels 801-810), they sometimes will pixelate/macroblock somewhat, then settle down, then do it again. This can last entire shows. It's never the entire picture, just parts of it. Sometimes it actually loses audio when it's doing this.
> 
> I've never noticed it on channels 811+, and I don't think it's happened on any SD channels. It also doesn't do it all the time.
> 
> I've swapped tuners during a show where it was happening and it continued. My signal strength was usually 100, so I tried putting a 9db attenuator (a 3db and a 6db) before the Tivo. That dropped the signal strength to around 96 or 97, but it still did it.
> 
> I'm wondering if others have seen this or if it's a problem with my TV line or my S3.


I saw this periodically on a couple of the football games over the weekend. I'm in Plano. I don't have the S3 yet and have a Moto CableCard in my Mitsu TV.


----------



## TexasAg

I saw it on the Cowboys game on Sunday. I've also seen it on Law & Order (NBC) and Without a Trace (TNT). Glad to know it might not be the S3 or CableCards.


----------



## musicforme

TexasAg said:


> I saw it on the Cowboys game on Sunday. I've also seen it on Law & Order (NBC) and Without a Trace (TNT). Glad to know it might not be the S3 or CableCards.


I had the same problem from time to time prior to owning my S3 or CableCards. Welcome to part of the fun of digital transmissions.


----------



## Beetlejuice

musicforme said:


> She then started to state that the Tivo uses a small part of the signal which lowers it when you're using the live tv. I'm not sure if this is true or not, but it sounds like a bunch of bunk to me. I've always been under the impression when watching live tv, you're watching it from a buffer on the hard drive.
> 
> After sitting on hold for a while for level 2, I finally got a RMA and an ETA of receiving an "advanced exchange" in approx 7 to 10 business days. Once I get the new S3, I'll revisit this thread and let y'all know if those channels work or not.


You are correct. Live TV is buffered from the hard drive. If it weren't you wouldn't be able to pause "live TV".

Last week I promised to let you all know how my S3 box replacement went. To recap, the S3 was getting severe pixelation on the local only cable channels. Only the channels that have an associated OTA channel in the area. The local cable channels that are public access, and the WGN-Chicago station which appears on local cable channel 6, did not pixelate at all. This was happening on both cable card slots with both cable cards. Swapping CC did not help. So, at this point it was impossible to determine if it was the S3 or Verizon. All of the higher cable channels including the HD worked fine. The OTA HD channels also are fine.

Well, I got the replacement S3 set up, and for a short while it looked like the pixelating channels were unchanged. However, after the box warmed up a bit and I got the setup completed, there was a change. Slot 1 CC was working perfectly with no pixelation. Slot 2 still has the severe pixelation. I swapped the cable cards, one at a time of course, and the pixelation problem stayed with the slot 2. I swapped them back to be sure, and again, slot 2 is the culprit on the new box. So, I know for certain that the problem is in the S3 box, and it is not a Verizon or CC problem. Now, if I can find an S3 box where both slots are working perfectly.


----------



## Beetlejuice

Beetlejuice said:


> Well, I got the replacement S3 set up, and for a short while it looked like the pixelating channels were unchanged. However, after the box warmed up a bit and I got the setup completed, there was a change. Slot 1 CC was working perfectly with no pixelation. Slot 2 still has the severe pixelation. I swapped the cable cards, one at a time of course, and the pixelation problem stayed with the slot 2. I swapped them back to be sure, and again, slot 2 is the culprit on the new box. So, I know for certain that the problem is in the S3 box, and it is not a Verizon or CC problem. Now, if I can find an S3 box where both slots are working perfectly.


Well, I may have been a bit premature. Slot 1 of the replacement S3 box has been working great for the last day and a half. Now it has broken down and is pixelating again just like Slot 2. I still think it's the box based on the troubleshooting I did earlier and swapping cards. At the time the problem definitely followed the slots and nothing else. But it didn't start up until a little while ago when I was trying out some fast forwarding, rewinding and changing channels. Who knows what the trouble is. I'm getting tired of this.


----------



## ashu

(possible smeek)
Have you checked your HD signal strength for the local/OTA-equiv channels on your cable/FIOS feed?


----------



## Beetlejuice

ashu said:


> (possible smeek)
> Have you checked your HD signal strength for the local/OTA-equiv channels on your cable/FIOS feed?


Yes. 97% on cable and OTA.


----------



## musicforme

Well, crapola.

I received my replacement S3 today. The same channels are having the same problems. I can't recall if the Golf channel was this fubar'd on the old one, but it is horrible on the new Tivo.

I'm watching the signal strength bounce around like a rubber ball on the crap channels. It goes from the mid 80s to the low 90s, sometimes losing the signal. The good channels are at 99 to 100 all the time.

I'm not a cable expert by any imagination. Is there any chance that the splitter in my attic could be my problem? I'm not well versed in this stuff, and I'm scrambling to find the problem. I'd hate to have to switch back to Comcast and lose all the high def channels. My wife is a golf NUT and not being able to watch the Golf channel is not an option in our house.

Looks like I'm in for another phone call to Verizon to ask more specific questions about the tests they can run. What kills me is that the CableCard works like a champ in my tv, but not in my Tivo.


----------



## Beetlejuice

musicforme said:


> Well, crapola.
> 
> Looks like I'm in for another phone call to Verizon to ask more specific questions about the tests they can run. What kills me is that the CableCard works like a champ in my tv, but not in my Tivo.


I think I will call Verizon too. Since I replaced the box, the ONT seems like the only thing left. I've got nothing to lose.... but the problem. It's strange that we are in the same North Texas area and have the same problem but on different channels.

And to answer your question... yes, a bad splitter, cable, or ground can cause all kinds of problems. If your cable is good, the ONT might be causing the erratic signal fluctuations. I don't remember if you tried this, but if you haven't already, try running an RG6 cable directly from your ONT to your S3 as a test. 50 feet of cable at Home Depot isn't going to set you back that much and may uncover your wavering signal strength.

I'm curious to know what happens.


----------



## winpitt

David Bolling said:


> Community specific information is here:
> 
> Verizon in the Community
> 
> then click on the link for your specific state. They have breaking news and press releases about their rollout, as well as propaganda for communities where they may be struggling to get franchise licenses.


And of significant note is the fact that Verizon's information is pure crap. It is nothing more than Propaganda. They completely misrepresent reality. I'm a member of our Franchise Authority and have attempted to get Verizon to talk to us for over a year. They refuse. They are banking on political contributions to our elected officials and an uneducated public to allow changes to occur which would eliminate the requirement for them to even have such agreements. The effect is nothing more than horrible for the consumer.


----------



## winpitt

musicforme said:


> This may be true in MD and in other states, but not in Texas.
> 
> Texas passed a law earlier in the year for a state wide franchise agreement. Verizon and AT&T (formally SWB) can both offer television service as long as they honor existing franchise agreements with the individual cities.


Good luck to you in TX. That's the worst possible thing that can happen. Your consumers just lost a lot of rights - and leverage. It has nothing to do with Franchise fees, either. BTW, a few points that have not affected you yet but most certainly will.

1) They only need to honor the existing agreements until the expiration of such agreements.

2) All Cable MSOs also now get the same freedoms as do Verizon and ATT. That means that they can now decide to not provide service to any part of any community - or charge higher maintenance costs (very very high) for those "less dense" or "less affluent" communities. The provision allows them to "cherry pick".

3) Texas has absolutely no capability to monitor or manage service levels, meaning that there will be no oversight whatsoever for service now. For ANY TV service.

Your law effectively sets you back to how cable was in the 1980s, prior to the Telecommunications Act of 1996.


----------



## winpitt

ATB said:


> Both Gov. Corzine and the Senate have finally approved Verizon's NJ state wide franchise. I think rollout is supposed to start Nov/Dec ish. Could have been if NJ gov hadn't done its usual heel dragging. I have been enjoying my FIOS internet for a while now...looking forward to a series 3 and TV.


See my earlier posts. Verizon's great PR campaign and your politicians greed railroaded you. Not your fault, but frankly you never got accurate information about Verizon and Franchise Agreements.

You will absolutely regret that happening. Or to be more specific, your residents in general will regret it happening.


----------



## slocko

can you post some links to what you are referring to? i would like to get more information on the dark side of state wide franchise. thxs.


----------



## winpitt

ah30k said:


> TiVo is selling a product/service that threaten revenue streams (VOD etc) for the cable companies. It is no surprise to me that the MSOs are reluctant to support the CableCARD. TiVo still has a right to sell product into that environment.


But frankly it is also understandable that they should not have to dedicate a high number of resources for what is certainly a small niche market. There are very few cablecard users and very little demand. Their service resources obviously will be focused on the majority of their requriements - which are not cc.

I don't like it, but certainly understand it.


----------



## snathanb

Beetlejuice said:


> I think I will call Verizon too. Since I replaced the box, the ONT seems like the only thing left. I've got nothing to lose.... but the problem. It's strange that we are in the same North Texas area and have the same problem but on different channels.


Now where did I put those spare ONTs?


----------



## bilbo

winpitt said:


> And of significant note is the fact that Verizon's information is pure crap. It is nothing more than Propaganda. They completely misrepresent reality. I'm a member of our Franchise Authority and have attempted to get Verizon to talk to us for over a year. They refuse. They are banking on political contributions to our elected officials and an uneducated public to allow changes to occur which would eliminate the requirement for them to even have such agreements. The effect is nothing more than horrible for the consumer.


no, what is pure crap is that i was thinking of getting showtime, and comcast wants to charge me an additional $19 on top of my nearly $100 monthly bill. Plus I need a digital converter box (because the channel for Showtime is around channel 320, i believe) for $5 per month just for the privilege of getting Showtime (tmc comes with it too -- woo hoo). So to pick up one channel my Cable bill would go up almost $25 (to over $120 per month)?

even with a $50 rebate, it hardly seems worth it. and i no longer get espn classic or cmt because it has been moved off of expanded basic (but i got a letter lauding comcast's improvements). know how much fios charges for showtime (plus tmc and starz and ifc)? $12 per month.

plus fios is under $80 per month for more channels and better quality internet connection than comcast can provide (hey brian roberts, i don't care about your speed burst advertisements because all my neighbors are sucking up the limited bandwidth you have provided for my block).


----------



## TexasAg

winpitt said:


> And of significant note is the fact that Verizon's information is pure crap. It is nothing more than Propaganda. They completely misrepresent reality. I'm a member of our Franchise Authority and have attempted to get Verizon to talk to us for over a year. They refuse. They are banking on political contributions to our elected officials and an uneducated public to allow changes to occur which would eliminate the requirement for them to even have such agreements. The effect is nothing more than horrible for the consumer.


Personally, I've had Fios (Internet and TV) for a year, and it's been rock solid (other than the piece of junk DVR they use and possibly some glitches in the TV signal).

But hey, what do I know. Clearly, based on this informative, rational post, I can honestly now say I'M DOOOOMED!


----------



## winpitt

TexasAg said:


> Personally, I've had Fios (Internet and TV) for a year, and it's been rock solid (other than the piece of junk DVR they use and possibly some glitches in the TV signal).
> 
> But hey, what do I know. Clearly, based on this informative, rational post, I can honestly now say I'M DOOOOMED!


So you're saying it's not rational? Do you have any knowledge of how Franchise Agreements work? The Telecommunications Act of 1996? "Cherry-Picking"? Build-Out Requirements? Right to Carry"

I am absolutely not saying that the FiOS Service isn't a great offering. That's not the point at all. The point is that changes to the existing law will have a strong negative effect that - while possibly not affecting you personally, at least yet - will most certainly affect a lot of other people.

If you would care to intelligently discuss this I'm game.


----------



## winpitt

slocko said:


> can you post some links to what you are referring to? i would like to get more information on the dark side of state wide franchise. thxs.


I can point you to the actual legislation, but depending on where you are the state stuff will vary. The federal stuff is related to HR5252 and Senate Bill 2628.


----------



## TexasAg

winpitt said:


> So you're saying it's not rational?


No, I'm saying your post was a nice little rant about how Verizon won't talk to you and your LFA. I'm not surprised you feel this way. Verizon is trying to deploy a huge fiber optic network to deliver voice, data, and video services in numerous states. Rather than trying to negotiate with individual towns, they've chosen to try and get statewide franchises for the video service. Given the fact that they are bypassing you and your LFA to get a franchise, I'm not surprised you're bitter.

Personally, I don't give a flip if Verizon won't install their highly expensive fiber optic network in neighborhoods where they likely can't recover the cost for years and years (if ever).

However, since this is a thread discussing the S3's compatibility with Fios, how about complaining over in AVS, dslreports, or another thread in a different forum here dedicated to the evil that is Verizon?


----------



## musicforme

Thought I would let y'all know that I posted over on Broadband Reports last night about my Fios and Tivo issues. Some people think that it might a splitter issue, either a bad splitter in the chain or that the ONT is putting out too strong of a signal and a splitter is needed to lower it.

Either way, I'll be dinking around with those tonight and see if it makes a difference.


----------



## TexasAg

musicforme said:


> Thought I would let y'all know that I posted over on Broadband Reports last night about my Fios and Tivo issues. Some people think that it might a splitter issue, either a bad splitter in the chain or that the ONT is putting out too strong of a signal and a splitter is needed to lower it.
> 
> Either way, I'll be dinking around with those tonight and see if it makes a difference.


I didn't realize how hot the signal was until I put 9db of attenuation on mine, and the Tivo still showed a 96-97% signal strength. It's quite a bit stronger when the signal is generated at the side of your house compared to down the block.


----------



## winpitt

TexasAg said:


> No, I'm saying your post was a nice little rant about how Verizon won't talk to you and your LFA. I'm not surprised you feel this way. Verizon is trying to deploy a huge fiber optic network to deliver voice, data, and video services in numerous states. Rather than trying to negotiate with individual towns, they've chosen to try and get statewide franchises for the video service. Given the fact that they are bypassing you and your LFA to get a franchise, I'm not surprised you're bitter.
> 
> Personally, I don't give a flip if Verizon won't install their highly expensive fiber optic network in neighborhoods where they likely can't recover the cost for years and years (if ever).
> 
> However, since this is a thread discussing the S3's compatibility with Fios, how about complaining over in AVS, dslreports, or another thread in a different forum here dedicated to the evil that is Verizon?


No, you are incorrect - completely. My statements are about how Verizon is refusing to talk to LOTS of franchise authorities, and is demanding the elimination of a number of critical provisions of existing law. I am not bitter. I am (as well as others) fighting this as it is counter-productive and only provides negative value to the consumer at large. Build-out requirements are only part of the equation. Service is yet another part.

But, it's nice to know that you don't care about anyone else.


----------



## TexasAg

winpitt said:


> No, you are incorrect - completely. My statements are about how Verizon is refusing to talk to LOTS of franchise authorities, and is demanding the elimination of a number of critical provisions of existing law. I am not bitter. I am (as well as others) fighting this as it is counter-productive and only provides negative value to the consumer at large. Build-out requirements are only part of the equation. Service is yet another part.
> 
> But, it's nice to know that you don't care about anyone else.


Which has nothing to do with whether the S3 is compatible with Fios.

And I do care about others, just not whiners.


----------



## winpitt

TexasAg said:


> Which has nothing to do with whether the S3 is compatible with Fios.
> 
> And I do care about others, just not whiners.


So then I suppose that your definition of a whiner is somebody with an interest not the same as yours.

Oh well.


----------



## TexasAg

winpitt said:


> So then I suppose that your definition of a whiner is somebody with an interest not the same as yours.
> 
> Oh well.


Nope, to me a whiner is someone who hijacks a thread to complain about a company they don't like.


----------



## winpitt

TexasAg said:


> Nope, to me a whiner is someone who hijacks a thread to complain about a company they don't like.


Again, another misrepresentation. Don't have an issue with Verizon and can certainly understand why they're trying to do what they are. They've done a great job spinning this (as evidenced by your position). I guess I actually have a problem with people like you who for whatever reason rudely criticize others who are trying to actually discuss the merits and facts.


----------



## TexasAg

winpitt said:


> Again, another misrepresentation. Don't have an issue with Verizon and can certainly understand why they're trying to do what they are. They've done a great job spinning this (as evidenced by your position). I guess I actually have a problem with people like you who for whatever reason rudely criticize others who are trying to actually discuss the merits and facts.


Yawn. You don't like Verizon or their actions (you can pick which), start a thread in the appropriate forum complaining about it. (And feel free to call all of us who don't buy your position victims of "spin").

Your posts here have absolutely nothing to do with the Fios service's compatibility with the S3 (or ANYTHING to do with the S3, for that matter).


----------



## musicforme

Guys, please take your franchise agreement stuff to private messages. I'm almost to the point of putting you both on my ignore list.


----------



## Dmon4u

The whole Franchise discussion was beaten to death over at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=590208

The one guy that was stomping on Verizon stayed for a while, then got frustrated and went away.

The ultimate 'trouble' these Town Councils and other local groups have can be summed up by the Town that wanted Verizon to pay for a Statue of the Mayor or the one that wanted them to pay for the cost of maintaining the community Swimming Pool or other towns that had other such local necessities. In my area Comcast pays for a local Festival and chips in an additional $150,000 for a 'bonus' into the town coffers. I wonder how Comcast (meaning the local subscribers) can afford this ?

Check out all the further comments over there and add your own to start another round of misery !


----------



## winpitt

Dmon4u said:


> The whole Franchise discussion was beaten to death over at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=590208
> 
> The one guy that was stomping on Verizon stayed for a while, then got frustrated and went away.
> 
> The ultimate 'trouble' these Town Councils and other local groups have can be summed up by the Town that wanted Verizon to pay for a Statue of the Mayor or the one that wanted them to pay for the cost of maintaining the community Swimming Pool or other towns that had other such local necessities. In my area Comcast pays for a local Festival and chips in an additional $150,000 for a 'bonus' into the town coffers. I wonder how Comcast (meaning the local subscribers) can afford this ?
> 
> Check out all the further comments over there and add your own to start another round of misery !


OMG. What complete crap. Please do not send out clearly completely wrong information about this. Just for your information, Franchise authorities don't get "Statues" or any other sort of revenue. There is only one thing that the community gets in terms of financial returns from the cable providers, and that is ONLY franchise fees - which even the state or federal proposals provide. If your community sucks that bad I'd suggest that either you are simply repeating false rumor or your community just sucks. The only non-financial benefit the municipality can get is in the form of Public Access TV. That means a local municipal TV channel(s) for non-profit use. Additionally, those franchise fees are paid by the consumer and passed on to the local municipality - basically a tax. Therefore franchise fees have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with this debate.

Please learn what you're talking about. Don't mean to be rude, but can't tolerate false statements like this. I'm not accusing you of lying, but possibly of swallowing some BS story.


----------



## Dmon4u

Move your comments over to the other Forum and we could continue this.

My last comments here are:

Funny, the Comcast (my local) info is printed in the regional paper (The Patriot-News) and nearly every other local paper every year. Seems odd they'd lie about this.

The other info has been around since the first franchise agreements and negoiations have come to light over the last year or so. If I recall, all these were posted and confirmed over at BroadbandReports.

As for my area, my Hummelstown Borough Council info is documented by the Newspapers and Town Officials. Much of this info including copies of Newspaper stories were posted at BroadbandReports. The Borough Councils story was that though we were first in our area to get FiOS, they punted the Sept. 28th 2005 (this after a month of delay) vote on a TV Franchise agreement to the WSCOG (West Shore Council of Goverments) supposedly because of costs. Also minutes of an August meeting came out showing that this was all a forgone conclusion http://hummelstown.govoffice2.com/v...ds/{F2BDC492-C09E-42C7-843C-36B6B06B3B29}.PDF and not something that was delayed. The real story, known to members of the Council (some, friends of mine) and also printed latter, was that they wanted more Traffic Lights to be put up and all of them to be paid for and maintained by Verizon. None of this is disputed in my area, by anyone. Only frustration by certain Borough Council Members at not getting these 'extras' caused this whole communitee to be stranded without a TV Franchise agreement with Verizon.


----------



## winpitt

Dmon4u said:


> Move your comments over to the other Forum and we could continue this.
> 
> My last comments here are:
> 
> Funny, the Comcast (my local) info is printed in the regional paper (The Patriot-News) and nearly every other local paper every year. Seems odd they'd lie about this.
> 
> The other info has been around since the first franchise agreements and negoiations have come to light over the last year or so. If I recall, all these were posted and confirmed over at BroadbandReports.
> 
> As for my area, my Hummelstown Borough Council info is documented by the Newspapers and Town Officials. Much of this info including copies of Newspaper stories were posted at BroadbandReports. The Borough Councils story was that though we were first in our area to get FiOS, they punted the Sept. 28th 2005 (this after a month of delay) vote on a TV Franchise agreement to the WSCOG (West Shore Council of Goverments) supposedly because of costs. The real story, known to members of the Council (some, friends of mine) and also printed latter, was that they wanted more Traffic Lights to be put up and all of them to be paid for and maintained by Verizon. None of this is disputed in my area, by anyone. Only frustration by certain Town Council Members at not getting these 'extras' caused this whole communitee to be stranded without a TV Franchise agreement with Verizon.


We can move this to another thread, but not another forum. And if you have proof of the above, start a thread and show it. To me (having a great deal of experience in this area) it is nonsense.


----------



## JohnBrowning

winpitt said:


> No, you are incorrect - completely. My statements are about how Verizon is refusing to talk to LOTS of franchise authorities, and is demanding the elimination of a number of critical provisions of existing law. I am not bitter. I am (as well as others) fighting this as it is counter-productive and only provides negative value to the consumer at large. Build-out requirements are only part of the equation. Service is yet another part.
> 
> But, it's nice to know that you don't care about anyone else.


We get the point!! You don't like VZ or how they do business. That's fine, that's your right, and you've made yourself very clear. I don't have a problem with the statewide franchise. I see no need for every dinky town across the state to get involved. I'd prefer EVERYONE have free access to the utility easements, as long as they meet quality and workmanship standards, without every junior politician in earshot demanding the "right" of approval. Its called "competition" and its good for everyone. The competition VZ has brought to my town has given me a new choice, a better quality product, and lower prices.

+1 to the Free Market!!


----------



## Beetlejuice

Anybody else got anything on poor reception with cable channels or ONTs?


----------



## winpitt

JohnBrowning said:


> We get the point!! You don't like VZ or how they do business. That's fine, that's your right, and you've made yourself very clear. I don't have a problem with the statewide franchise. I see no need for every dinky town across the state to get involved. I'd prefer EVERYONE have free access to the utility easements, as long as they meet quality and workmanship standards, without every junior politician in earshot demanding the "right" of approval. Its called "competition" and its good for everyone. The competition VZ has brought to my town has given me a new choice, a better quality product, and lower prices.
> 
> +1 to the Free Market!!


I keep waiting to let this drop but then somebody has to add a nonsense response that I don't want to less without address.

The competition existed BEFORE the state franchise agreement. Verizon chose to wait to enter the market deliberately because they believed people like you would not understand the legislation and believe the spin, allowing them to get concesssions (that they should not have gotten). They could have entered the market any time they wanted. In other areas that's what they did - in other words where they didn't have as much confidence that the state would roll over for them fast enough. Your definition of competition as it relates to this discussion is patently false.

*I'll say it again - I have nothing whatsoever against Verizon. I understand what they are trying to do, and don't blame them for trying to take advantage of some ineffective politicians and uneducated consumers.*

There is no protection or goverance now for your quality and service issues. None. While responsibility for oversight has been assigned, there are no resources within that government organization to actually EXECUTE on those responsibilities.

Honestly, I sincerely suggest that if you do not understand the legislation, READ IT. That's far more productive than simply making claims about "competition", etc when they are clearly incorrect. Verizon in almost every single case HAD ALREADY DEPLOYED FIBER to those areas prior to the state franchise agreement being put in. Are you suggesting that if the state hadn't rolled over they would have either removed the fiber or not lit it up? BS. They would have been there regardless.

THAT is the point. Verizon is going to deploy FiOS (thankfully) whether the federal or individual states give in to them. The difference is this. If they get their way, they'll deploy it to less communities. And, if they get their way their service requirements will be lower. THOSE are the facts.


----------



## musicforme

I posted my testing results last night over at Broadband Reports and thought I would share them here (someone in this thread asked to see them, thanks for the interest!). 
-------------------------------------------
Ok, I finally got some TV time tonight after my wife hit the sack. Getting in the way of Gray's Anatomy was not an option!

I took a look at the splitter in my attic, and it looks like the Verizon installer put in a new one. I checked the stats on it, and it has the 5mhz to 1 ghz previously mentioned in this thread. It is a 1 to 6 splitter.

I followed the co-ax as best I could in the attic and it does not appear to be split anywhere between the one I previously mentioned and its descent down the wall behind my tv.

I also went through the channels I wrote down as having the bad picture quality and checked the "tuned frequency". Hopefully this is the proper number that someone requested. It was available on multiple screens and seemed pretty important to me for that reason. Several times while checking it the "SNR" (signal to noise?) bounced from Poor to Good. Where applicable, I'll put a "*" next to the frequency. I also scanned all my channels below 50, and all but one of them were 100 strength. I believe channel 6 was somewhere around 97 or 98 and looked fine.

Channel Tuned Frequency

50 417
54 417
65 429
101 417
134 417*
135 417*
160 429*
164 417
190 423*
204 417*
230 429*
234 429*

I also tried a couple of splitters between the wall and my Tivo. A "high performance" splitter (5 mhz to 2 gig) did not change the signal strength. I tried an OLD one I found in the attic tonight (probably came with the house when built in the early 1990s) and the signal strength dropped a couple of points, but still in the low to mid 80s.

Any ideas? As long as I can still demonstrate to my wife that there are things still to try, she's on board with sticking with Verizon. I'm not looking forward to Sunday morning when we can't record and watch "PGA Sunday" on the USA Channel.
-------------------------------------------
Winpitt, I added you to my ignore list. I'm tired of reading your drivel. I'm sure I'm not alone in those that don't appreciate you polluting this thread. Happy trails...


----------



## Beetlejuice

musicforme said:


> Any ideas? As long as I can still demonstrate to my wife that there are things still to try, she's on board with sticking with Verizon. I'm not looking forward to Sunday morning when we can't record and watch "PGA Sunday" on the USA Channel.


I just found something that we might be able to take to Tivo. In case you missed it earlier, I mentioned I was having some good luck with the crap channels on CC slot-1 but CC slot-2 was serverly pixelated. My previous S3 was bad on both slots.

I went back and rechecked the signal levels on different channels. It seems that all the channels that are coming in good, all above 50 and WGN, are hitting 100% and the displays says "Digital Signal Acquired". When I switch to one of my local cable channels that pixelate mostly on slot-2, I get a level of around 95% to 97% and the display says "Digital Signal Acquired" but occasionally in parentheses says *"(No signal on tuner two)"*. Now... There is only 1 cable coming into the S3, why would 1 tuner be ok, and the other tuner not be ok, if it was a Verizon problem???

Now, since I have previously swapped cable cards and the problem stays on tuner 2, I believe this is proof that the problem is in the S3 and not with Verizon. And something else of interest, since the S3 warns that using the signal level test will suspend all recording, it's my understanding and belief that this allows you to view the signal without being processed to put on the hard drive. In other words, that part of the S3 is being taken out of the picture and isolating the problem to the tuner or in other cases, maybe both tuners.

I can't explain why the 100% channels are ok and the 96% channels are not unless the tuners are not sensative enough and require a 100% signal. I've previously tried using a TV signal amp but that didn't help. I'm going to try again and check the levels. Stay tuned (no pun intended).


----------



## AbMagFab

I suggest you get a Viewsonics signal booster/splitter, either a single one in-line from the source, or one to split to each TV. I did the latter, and have significantly improves picture quality on all TV's on the analog side, and no issue on the digital side.

I did this with my OTA feed a while ago, and these Viewsonics devices seem like magic. They amp the low stuff, and don't seem to overamp anything that is already okay.

(I have no interest in Viewsonics, I just have had great luck with the devices).

I bought new on eBay, for about 20% less than other discount retailers, for what it's worth.


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## dnorthway

For those individuals in Plano TX that have Verizon Fios and the new TIVO Series 3, how did you get it to work. I have the Verizon guys here for 3 hours until they finally got the cable card working on the TV. But, then when we put them into the TIVO box, I got the message acquiring channel information but could go no further. Verizon says the cards are working correctly because they work on the TV. TIVO says it has to be something on Verizon's side. I am stuck in the middle. Any thoughts?


----------



## Ilene

dnorthway said:


> For those individuals in Plano TX that have Verizon Fios and the new TIVO Series 3, how did you get it to work. I have the Verizon guys here for 3 hours until they finally got the cable card working on the TV. But, then when we put them into the TIVO box, I got the message acquiring channel information but could go no further. Verizon says the cards are working correctly because they work on the TV. TIVO says it has to be something on Verizon's side. I am stuck in the middle. Any thoughts?


I documented this in an earlier post (probably didn't see it with all the off topic posts in between trashing Verizon)
The entire process of rewiring for telephone, internet and cable took about 7 hours. It took nearly 2 hours to get the cablecards to work. I had printed out an article that another forum member recommended: http://techdigs.net/content/view/46/42. While it is very Comcast focused, we were able to glean enough info to help. It would have been nice if the instructions that TiVo says to hand to the installer was actually complete, but it really wasn't.

Hopefully this will help:
1) Ask for brand new, never been used cablecards and write down the Serial Number (SN) and the UnitAddress (UA) that is on each of the cards. Mine were Motorolla. Your installer will need to repeat the numbers over and over. 
2) Make note of which one you put in the bottom slot, this cablecard 1. 
3) When you put the card in the bottom slot, a screen will show up with the card in green. I waited several minutes just staring at this screen and nothing happened. There is an option for Configure Card 1, so I decided to select it.
4) A black screen with white information shows up. This is the MMI screen that TiVo has a picture of in their instructions. According to the info in the techdig article, the HOST and DATA numbers are critical. 
5) The tech will need to provide the Host and Data info to the guy on the phone. It will take that person several tries to type the long string of numbers and letters. 
6) Because they could not do one and then the other, I had to put CC2 in before we finished with CC1. 
7) The screen pops up showing 2 CCs in green and there is a new option for Configure CC2. We waited a few minutes before I selected the Configure CC2. The HOST and DATA information are unique for each CC.
8) It appeared that the person on the phone had a lot of trouble keeping the information straight between the 2 cards. He kept mixing the Host and Data information between the 2 different serial numbers. Since I couldn't see the screen he had to enter this into, I can't comment on why this was so difficult. 
9) I can tell you that they had to reenter this information many times. I heard that they were getting an error message, but I could not find out what the message was. The TiVo Config screens time out, so I had to go through the TiVo Central menu many times to get back to the CC screens. 
10) When they are successful, TiVo will automatically go to the Test Channel screen. For me this happened to CC1. All of the sudden the TV station it is testing appears in the background. We told them to stop messing with it because whatever they did, it was working. 
11) We asked them to do whatever, to the second card. They did and the TiVo screen changed to the Test Channel screen automatically.

Jared will probably kill me, but you might want to request him as the installer. He is one of their best techs. I would also be willing to help. Just let me know.


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## wmcbrine

Reading strings of numbers over the phone is such an obvious failure point... I wonder why they don't just make a web interface for the techs (or even the customers) to access.


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## Roderigo

Ilene said:


> 3) When you put the card in the bottom slot, a screen will show up with the card in green. I waited several minutes just staring at this screen and nothing happened. There is an option for Configure Card 1, so I decided to select it.
> 4) A black screen with white information shows up. This is the MMI screen that TiVo has a picture of in their instructions. According to the info in the techdig article, the HOST and DATA numbers are critical.


Not really cause & effect between step 3 & 4. The MMI would have come up on it's own if you had just waited



Ilene said:


> 8) It appeared that the person on the phone had a lot of trouble keeping the information straight between the 2 cards. He kept mixing the Host and Data information between the 2 different serial numbers. Since I couldn't see the screen he had to enter this into, I can't comment on why this was so difficult.


This is exactly why the Tivo instructions say to do one card at a time. There's no technical reason, but really easy to get things mixed up.


----------



## Ilene

Roderigo said:


> Not really cause & effect between step 3 & 4. The MMI would have come up on it's own if you had just waited
> 
> This is exactly why the Tivo instructions say to do one card at a time. There's no technical reason, but really easy to get things mixed up.


I totally understand that you are supposed to do one card at a time, but when the installer tells you that Fios requires that all connections (including the cable box in the other room) be activated at the same time, I was forced to put in the second card. And I am sorry that I did not make myself clear in that what the tech on the phone kept messing up with was the 4 series of numbers for the one card. It got no better when we worked on the 2nd card.

My point to this post is that like others have said, it is too bad that we have no control over the activation process. We cannot enter the numbers and submit them, we cannot see what the tech on the phone is doing or not doing.

I believe that TiVo will suffer as a result that there is nothing in it for the cable companies for these installs to be successful - in fact it costs them money as they will not have the revenue from leaving their own DVRs and the added PPV and VOD services.


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## neplokh

Has anyone have FIOS and Tivo Series3 successfully installed in Centreville, VA or anywhere else in Northern VA area? Since last saturday countless number of Verizon techs and supervisors tried including multiple site visits by verizon techs. Results are identical, channels 50 and above don't work. They've tried at least 4 different cable cards and this is a second Tivo (first one exchanged per advice from tivo tech support) I am looking for a name of your tech so I can request them when I call their tech support number. I am this close to calling COX and ordering service from them despite it being $20 more expensive for identical content.


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## ashu

Also try the avsforums official Series 3' thread, as well as the 'Washington DC area HDTV' thread. I vaguely remember someone mentioning they had an S3 with CableCards ... but likely from Comcast or Adelphia.

I will soon, but with Adelphia, and I'm eager to confirm FIOS cards work as well (a little North West of you) ... with the FIOS rollout now underway in my 'hood.

Here ...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=722696

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=517400


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## musicforme

neplokh said:


> Results are identical, channels 50 and above don't work.


Nothing above 49 works for you? That is different than what I'm getting. Most of my channels DO work, but I identified at least 15 that don't. I stopped counting at 15.

I plan on doing some more troubleshooting tomorrow night since my wife is going to be out of the house for a while. I'll post my results once I have them.


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## JohnBrowning

Note that the first 50 channels are basic, unencrypted, analog cable. I also had this problem when I first had FiOS installed. The solution was geting a knowledgable support engineer on the phone who knew how to cold init the CableCARD. All has been happy since and I can freely move the CC back and forth between my TV and S3.


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## mlkeller

JohnBrowning said:


> Note that the first 50 channels are basic, unencrypted, analog cable. I also had this problem when I first had FiOS installed. The solution was geting a knowledgable support engineer on the phone who knew how to cold init the CableCARD. All has been happy since and I can freely move the CC back and forth between my TV and S3.


Yup, had same problem when they added my second cable card...tech knew to check channel 51 and when it was not there he told the rep on the phone to send a re-init signal (I think that was the term he used) to the card, and that seem to do it.


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## TexasAg

Anybody having trouble getting CNN Headline News? It's channel 71 AND channel 520 on Fios. My S3 won't work on either tuner for either channel. The CableCard menu shows that the tuner is tuned to the station.

It should work since it is included in the standard Fios package, and I get all of the surrounding channels. Also, it's not an analog channel and it's happening on two widely spaced channels, so it's not the problem of the missing analog channels some have had. I've confirmed that the Verizon STBs in my house still get it.

This has me stumped - both CNNH channels are missing on 71 and 520, while everything else works.


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## musicforme

I did some testing tonight and posted the results over at the Broadband Reports site. The contents of my post are below.
----------------------------
Ok, I have some good results to report.

I stopped by Radio Shack and put some terminators on four of the ends of the splitter. I thought the splitter was a 6 way splitter, but was an 8 way.

When checking the signal strength on the Tivo in the main room, it went from the mid 80s to the upper 80s and still pixelated.

I removed one of the terminators and ran a 50 ft cable to the master bedroom and hooked up to the Tivo. SUCCESS!! The signal was between 96 to 98 and no pixelation on the problematic channels.

So at this point, it appears the problems are with the existing cabling in my house. I need to call in to Tech Support and see how much it will cost to have a tech come out and replace the cable from the splitter to behind my tv.

Thanks for all the input from everyone!


----------



## Ilene

TexasAg said:


> Anybody having trouble getting CNN Headline News? It's channel 71 AND channel 520 on Fios. My S3 won't work on either tuner for either channel. The CableCard menu shows that the tuner is tuned to the station.
> 
> It should work since it is included in the standard Fios package, and I get all of the surrounding channels. Also, it's not an analog channel and it's happening on two widely spaced channels, so it's not the problem of the missing analog channels some have had. I've confirmed that the Verizon STBs in my house still get it.
> 
> This has me stumped - both CNNH channels are missing on 71 and 520, while everything else works.


I am experiencing the same missing channels 71 and 520. I wonder if it is a North Texas thing or a Fios thing? I would assume this is happening in cableCARD connected TVs too.


----------



## musicforme

Ilene said:


> I am experiencing the same missing channels 71 and 520. I wonder if it is a North Texas thing or a Fios thing? I would assume this is happening in cableCARD connected TVs too.


TexasAg and I have discussed this same problem over on Broadband Reports.

I took one of my CableCards out of my Tivo last night and put it in my TV. The above channels work just fine in my TV, so it is something specific with the Tivo.


----------



## TexasAg

musicforme said:


> TexasAg and I have discussed this same problem over on Broadband Reports.
> 
> I took one of my CableCards out of my Tivo last night and put it in my TV. The above channels work just fine in my TV, so it is something specific with the Tivo.


Bad news.

Anybody have any idea why the Tivo would fail to work with both CableCards on two widely-spaced channels (71 and 520) from the same source (CNN Headline News)?


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## Thos19

I had Fios internet installed in my house in Abington, MA. It blows away Adelphia/Comcast.

My next task: pestering the Town Selectmen into letting Verizon Fios TV !!!!!!

Thos.


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## ashu

TexasAg said:


> Bad news.
> 
> Anybody have any idea why the Tivo would fail to work with both CableCards on two widely-spaced channels (71 and 520) from the same source (CNN Headline News)?


[humor]
Does Fox News work? If it does, I'd suggest a Conspiracy Theory!


----------



## TexasAg

ashu said:


> [humor]
> Does Fox News work? If it does, I'd suggest a Conspiracy Theory!


We sometimes like to watch Glenn Beck's show (but just sometimes, which is why it's no big loss for me if it never works).


----------



## willettg

I live in Irving TX, and have had FiOS video service about 5 months, using the Motorola HD DVR. Verizon activated two cable cards in my TiVo/S3 today (fairly smooth process). I am having problems with three channels that work fine with the Moto DVR:

CH 81 - CSPAN3: No audio on TiVo, works fine on Moto

CH 200 - Hallmark Channel: Not working on TiVo, works fine on Moto

CH 520 - CNN Headline News: Not working on TiVo, works fine on Moto. Oddly enough, CH70 for CNN Headline News is working fine.

It appears others are having problems with CH 70/520 - how about 81 and 200? Is this a TiVo S3 problem or a FiOS cablecard problem?


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## TexasAg

I can confirm that I am missing channel 200 in addition to channels 71 and 520. I am also missing audio on channel 81.

Very strange stuff.


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## fox112000

Sorry for posting on this S3 thread, but I'm not sure where else to go. I have 2 Motorola QIP2500-3 boxes, the horrible fios DVR & an S2 Tivo. When I ordered fios, I was assured my Tivo would work fine. Then the tech showed up to install. He told me my Tivo would not work (would only function as a VCR). Not having ever been on any of these tivo forums, I assumed he was right & had a fit! Spent almost 2 hrs on the phone with verizon, while the tech just sat here. He refused to start any work until everything was worked out. Finally verizon decided to give me the DVR free for a yr, since they were now saying my tivo wouldn't work. I thought that was a good compromise until I started using the DVR! It's horrible! And now, the tv that was hooked up to the DVR is fried! It started making some weird popping electrical noises & then sizzled. I disconnected everything & tried just plugging it into the wall, but it just sizzles. Anyone think this could be related to fios/dvr? or just bad luck with the tv?

Anyway, the techs left my house without even attempting to hook up the Tivo on the 2nd tv, and I think he even used some of my Tivo cables for his connections. Needless to say, I can't figure out what's supposed to be hooked up where, & I'm having withdrawl. I've been without the Tivo for a wk now! We had also previously been having Tivo update over the phone, but can now probably just do it through the network. Can anyone tell me exactly how to connect the Motorola QIP2500-3 box with the S2 tivo, & what I need to do on the Tivo end (or at least direct me to some complete instructions), in simple non-tech language? I've been searching for the last few hrs & can only find bits of info here & there. I really don't want to listen to my kids complaining that they're missing sesame street for another day!
Thanks for anyone's help!!


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## ashu

fox, I know I'm being lazy here too, but hunt down the remote code thread (maintained by a username that contains the word charles. I think!). That will mention whether/if that Motorola box can even be controlled by TiVo's IR signals. I believe they can.

I don't know if you have any recourse about the fried TV. Was this a Motorola 6412 HD DVR? Connected by an HDMI cable to the TV, I presume?


----------



## willettg

I submitted FiOS TV Help Request vz283009nm2 to report this issue.



TexasAg said:


> I can confirm that I am missing channel 200 in addition to channels 71 and 520. I am also missing audio on channel 81.
> 
> Very strange stuff.


----------



## TexasAg

willettg said:


> I submitted FiOS TV Help Request vz283009nm2 to report this issue.


Thanks.

I'm not sure if it'll help, though. I don't think it's a Verizon problem since musicforme plugged one of his CableCards into his TV and got channels 71 and 520. That seems to show that this is a Tivo problem.

Maybe we'll get lucky and it will be a Verizon thing - they have the wrong setting or something, so it's messing up the ability of a DVR to display and record. The fact that it's the same for both copies of CNNH on two different channels might mean that the setting is wrong for CNNH. Still, I have a feeling this is something with the Tivo.


----------



## willettg

TexasAg: 
Verizon Tier-2 support says this is a known TiVo S3 problem. What's odd is that I can get CNN Headline News on CH71 but not on CH520.

My Sony HDTV has a cable card slot. Can I move one of my S3 cable cards to the Sony TV? Does VZ have to re-activate it if I do? I want to verify the problem is TiVo's and not VZ's. Also, I don't want to pay for another activation fee to move the card.



TexasAg said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I'm not sure if it'll help, though. I don't think it's a Verizon problem since musicforme plugged one of his CableCards into his TV and got channels 71 and 520. That seems to show that this is a Tivo problem.
> 
> Maybe we'll get lucky and it will be a Verizon thing - they have the wrong setting or something, so it's messing up the ability of a DVR to display and record. The fact that it's the same for both copies of CNNH on two different channels might mean that the setting is wrong for CNNH. Still, I have a feeling this is something with the Tivo.


----------



## TexasAg

willettg, musicforme says he has moved his CableCard from the S3 to his TV and back without problem. 

I have not tried it due to the difficulty in rotating my TV to get access to the slot (the TV is recessed, and the opening just barely fits the TV without including me next to it). So, I can't verify it, but it sounds like it is OK.

It's weird that it works for you on channel 71. I know channel 71 was not working for us as of last night.


----------



## willettg

I moved one of the cable cards from my TiVo S3 to my Sony HDTV. All of the problems with CH 70, 81, 200, and 520 do NOT exist with the cable card in the Sony TV. So this is definitely a TiVo issue.

BTW, CNN Headline News on CH 70 now does not work (it definitely did before).

I will be submitting a trouble report to Tivo on this.



TexasAg said:


> willettg, musicforme says he has moved his CableCard from the S3 to his TV and back without problem.
> 
> I have not tried it due to the difficulty in rotating my TV to get access to the slot (the TV is recessed, and the opening just barely fits the TV without including me next to it). So, I can't verify it, but it sounds like it is OK.
> 
> It's weird that it works for you on channel 71. I know channel 71 was not working for us as of last night.


----------



## wmcbrine

It's interesting that people are able to move the cards from one device to another. So much for the cards being "married" to a device. Also makes it even more pointless for them to require a technician to set up.


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## ashu

wmcbrine said:


> It's interesting that people are able to move the cards from one device to another. So much for the cards being "married" to a device. Also makes it even more pointless for them to require a technician to set up.


Not all cable companies block your ability to do that. They likely will stop working shortly ... if the company can get its act together 

Comcast cards usually can't be moved around, and removal-reinsertion requires re-enabling due to the newly created ID (one of them - data?)


----------



## willettg

I opened a case with TiVo (#5490836) on the issue with I am having with four channels in the TiVo S3: 

CH 70 - CNN Headline News: OK in program guide, but no video or audio on TiVo. 

CH 81 - CSPAN3: OK in program guide, have video but no audio on TiVo. 

CH 200 - Hallmark Channel: OK in program guide, but no video or audio on TiVo. 

CH 520 - CNN Headline News (duplicate of CH 70): OK in program guide, but no video or audio on TiVo. 

These channels work fine when tuned by the Motorola HD DVR. I individually moved both of my TiVo cable cards to my Sony HDTV, and all four channels work OK on both cards. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Called TiVo support today (Sat 11/4/06; talked to "Eric"). He says that I have two bad cable cards and I need to get Verizon to replace them. After that, if the problem still exists, they might escalate the problem to TiVo engineering.

I argued, to no avail, that the fact that both cable cards work in my Sony TV would prove the issue to be TiVo's.

Did I just get an incompetent CSR on my call today, and need to call back?

What am I missing here? Who should be my advocate? Why do I have to be in the middle?

TiVo has just released a (very expensive) product to compete in the CE environment for cable TV. One would think they would jump right on a problem like this, and not leave their customers hanging in the breeze.

Is there any way to get TiVo to listen to me?

Is it a technical possibility this problem is Verizon's and not Tivo's??


----------



## Galway1

FIOS was to come today to install cable cards. They did not show. I pushed them for a visit later in the afternoon. They are coming. BUT- in the course of trying to get service, I talked to their (FIOS) fiber service desk. He said there are serious compatibility issues and that cable cards won't work with TIVO. An email was sent out last week to their reps.

Called TIVO and talked to service rep. She asked around and they told her that 9 of 10 times the cable cards start up ok but then fail. She opened a case file for me and connected me to a higher level tech rep. He, (Bobby) asked his peers if they knew of a problem. All of them said that they have never succeeded in getting cable cards to work with FIOS. NONE.

I have a thousand bucks tied up in this and now it all has to be taken apart and returned. Plus I took time from work to wait for FIOS. 

I have loved TIVO since 1999. But am out of the TIVO users until it works as it should.

By the way, I had lifetime TIVO with DirecTV but it does not tranfer over to just the TIVO box. Service rep said that TIVO did not get any money from DirectTV so it will not extend service.

Phooey.

Sorry, this is in Northern Virginia area. And I have phone and internet on FIOS as well as TV. I quit DirectTV when the rain came too many days for my patience.


----------



## TexasAg

So you listened to the Verizon folks who want you to rent their STB/DVR, and you didn't bother looking around to see if other people had gotten their S3 to work with Fios before you returned your S3?

I have an S3 working with Fios almost perfectly. I'm just missing a couple stations that I hardly ever watch.


----------



## bkdtv

S3 working perfectly with FiOS in N. VA here.


----------



## TomStapes

After reading about everyone's experience with FiOS and TiVo S3 (and ignoring some off-topic discussions...), I am now chomping at the bit for FiOS TV. I live in Jersey, and if everything goes well with the State Board of Public Utilities over the next couple of weeks, they should get their state-wide franchise license before the end of the year.

I've got an S2 w/ Lifetime that we are going to transfer over to the S3, but our TV is SD, so I don't have the ability to swap CC's around if there is a problem. I won't be able to say whether the problem is with Verizon or with TiVo.

So, my question - When I place my order, should I order a STB to check for problems for the first month or two, or is that more problematic than it's worth? It might be nice to check out the VOD services as long as it is around...


----------



## TexasAg

TomStapes said:


> So, my question - When I place my order, should I order a STB to check for problems for the first month or two, or is that more problematic than it's worth? It might be nice to check out the VOD services as long as it is around...


I never had this problem (missing channels or missing audio) with the STBs or DVRs from Fios. In fact, I can get channels 71, 81, 200, and 520 properly with the Fios STBs I still have. So, you probably can't check for the problem using them.

I think it's a problem with (i) the CableCards or (ii) the Tivo (or maybe both).

I never really used the VOD stuff except for a few kids' shows. I never really thought highly of it. But hopefully you'll enjoy the Fios TV service as much as I have (and it looks amazing on HDTVs).


----------



## Galway1

By the way, Texas Ag, FIOS said that TIVO Series 3 did not work with FIOS but TIVO said (as I stated in my post) that they can't get TIVO Series 3 to work with FIOS either. 

So, no I did not just listen to Verizon, I listened to TIVO, who has a major stake in my succeeding.

And on this entire string I see a few comments that TIVO Series 3 works with FIOS in Virginia, but no specifics.

Even the long link that answers so many questions about the specifics of what Series 3 does and what it works with says that TIVO works with FIOS but all of the links that users have posted seem to say that the reality is significantly different than what is stated but not proved nor supported.


----------



## JohnBrowning

TiVo Series 3 works fine with FiOS. I don't see what all the stink is about? From the TiVo's point of view, its a digital cable connection PERIOD! I'm currently only running a single cableCARD, but, installation was trivial.
- Install TiVo
- Move CableCARD from TV to TiVo
- Run Guided Setup
- Enjoy TiVo!!

Quit spreading FUD and just enjoy the show!!!


----------



## TexasAg

It's funny, because it appears Verizon doesn't require the pairing numbers for the CableCards to work (you can move them between devices without requiring a call to Verizon).

This may change obviously, but it means that it's actually easier right now to set up the S3 with Verizon than it is for other cable providers.


----------



## willettg

See my post #175. Do you have problems with the same four channels? Other than this issue, I am very pleased with the TiVo S3



JohnBrowning said:


> TiVo Series 3 works fine with FiOS. I don't see what all the stink is about? From the TiVo's point of view, its a digital cable connection PERIOD! I'm currently only running a single cableCARD, but, installation was trivial.
> - Install TiVo
> - Move CableCARD from TV to TiVo
> - Run Guided Setup
> - Enjoy TiVo!!
> 
> Quit spreading FUD and just enjoy the show!!!


----------



## terramar

I am still having trouble on two separate S3s on Fios in Manhattan Beach, CA.

The ffwd and rewind speed skip erratically. Watching the counter at the bottom, you can see it cruise along, minute-by-minute, and then it will jump up suddenly anywhere from 1 to 10 minutes (occasionally even more). Sometimes it even jumps backwards.

Imagine seeing the numbers go like this:

17 18 19 21 22 26 24 25 29 23 24 25

It's almost impossible to fast-forward or rewind to a specific spot in a show. Two calls to Tivo over the last two weeks, two promised that they'll "get back to me in a day or so", and I've still not heard from them.

Anybody else seeing this?????? We're getting desperate - if we don't get a fix soon, my wife is going to insist we scrap the S3s and Fios and go back to DirecTV.

t


----------



## TexasAg

Someone over at dslreports posted that channels 71 and 520 work in Herndon, VA. Not real sure why the S3 would work in some places and not others, esp. since the CableCards seem to work in TVs when the S3 doesn't.


----------



## Ilene

TexasAg said:


> I can confirm that I am missing channel 200 in addition to channels 71 and 520. I am also missing audio on channel 81.
> 
> Very strange stuff.


I am experiencing the same issues. When I called Verizon about it, they said that since I didn't have La Conexion, that I shouldn't be getting channel 520. I quickly dropped the conversation as I didn't want to lose the other channels. Too bad we can't tell if this is a North Texas problem or not since I can't find anyone reporting this that is not in our area. At this point I am assuming it is a TiVo issue and hope that they fix it in their next update.


----------



## HD_Dude

For suburban DC, FIOS is finally here!

WTOP Article

"Hello, Comcast?"

"Yes, how can I help you?"

"I'd like to cancel service...."

Daydreams sometimes come true...lol


----------



## jcaudle

Now how about FIOS in the rest of Fairfax County, not just Herndon. Although I will say that I think Cox is a better cable provider than Comcast.


----------



## dt_dc

jcaudle said:


> Now how about FIOS in the rest of Fairfax County, not just Herndon.


Fios TV is being rolled out throughout Fairfax County ... not just Herndon. It just takes time ...

I'm in Fairfax (not Herndon) with Fios TV.


----------



## terramar

Would anybody/everybody with Fios and the S3 tell me if they are having the same "jumping" problem with fast forward that I've described? It would really help me with Tivo.

They did have me do something to generate some sort of debug file that they are looking at, but so far, no answers.


----------



## musicforme

musicforme said:


> So at this point, it appears the problems are with the existing cabling in my house.


I haven't visited this thread in a while and thought I'd share my update.

I finally climbed in my attic over the weekend and replaced the old co-ax from the splitter with a new co-ax that has four layers of shielding in it. I had a heck of a time fishing for the new co-ax as it was coiled up in the wall with the existing co-ax, Cat 6 and phone cable. I mangled a coat hanger and was able to get it up in the wall cavity to shake things loose.

My signal level went from the mid-80s up to 96-100 with the new cable. The channels that would heavily pixelate no longer have problems. Unfortunately, this means my wife will be watching her season pass for "Baby Story" on TLC now. ugh!


----------



## pnrmurph

terramar said:


> Would anybody/everybody with Fios and the S3 tell me if they are having the same "jumping" problem with fast forward that I've described? It would really help me with Tivo.
> 
> They did have me do something to generate some sort of debug file that they are looking at, but so far, no answers.


I just had FiOS TV installed, including CableCards for my S3 on Sat. 12/9 and have noticed the stange jumping when fast forwarding. Seems to happen only on the fastest fast foward. Other than that, everything else seems fine.


----------



## SCSIRAID

pnrmurph said:


> I just had FiOS TV installed, including CableCards for my S3 on Sat. 12/9 and have noticed the stange jumping when fast forwarding. Seems to happen only on the fastest fast foward. Other than that, everything else seems fine.


That should be fixed in 8.1 firmware. Its an mpeg decoding issue.


----------



## terramar

SCSIRAID said:


> That should be fixed in 8.1 firmware. Its an mpeg decoding issue.


Can you provide the basis for your information, please?


----------



## SCSIRAID

terramar said:


> Can you provide the basis for your information, please?


Tivo engineering support person. They have called me several times on the audio dropout/pixelation issue and I had a long conversation with the rep late one evening.


----------



## terramar

SCSIRAID said:


> Tivo engineering support person. They have called me several times on the audio dropout/pixelation issue and I had a long conversation with the rep late one evening.


Thanks. I've made about 5 phone calls into tech support, and now they're asking me to do some remote gymnastics to allow them to gather some timing info......but they still keep claiming that the problem is something they've never heard of before, and I'm just getting completely frustrated.

My wife is starting to suggest that we dump the S3 and Fios and go back to DirecTV.


----------



## TexasAg

terramar said:


> Thanks. I've made about 5 phone calls into tech support, and now they're asking me to do some remote gymnastics to allow them to gather some timing info......but they still keep claiming that the problem is something they've never heard of before, and I'm just getting completely frustrated.
> 
> My wife is starting to suggest that we dump the S3 and Fios and go back to DirecTV.


Just use the 30-second skip. I rarely ever use FF 3x with Fios.


----------



## globalreset

Hey all. Just did the guided setup for my brand new series3. I currently have the fios tv, with their hd dvr. I have an installer coming out next week to setup the cablecard(s).

I saw lots of references to the newer cable cards with support for multistream coming in during November (last month). Does anyone know if these ever appeared? I'm just curious if I can tell the installer to only put one card in and keep the other. Funny enough, I trust the forum users a lot more to tell me what kind of hardware I'm getting than I do Verizon's installers.


----------



## SC0TLANDF0REVER

jcaudle said:


> Now how about FIOS in the rest of Fairfax County, not just Herndon. Although I will say that I think Cox is a better cable provider than Comcast.


No doubt. A buddy of mine out in Leesburg has FiOS Internet w/ TV coming real soon (and he's in 'stacked housing').
I'm chomping @ the bit to get 15Mbps down/2Mbps up w/ an S3 + Slingbox = Nirvana.

Stacked Housing = Condos/Apartments in Telco speak.


----------



## Tank99

I just switched apartments here in Tampa Florida and prior to that I was about to have FIOS installed in my old apartment. I was on their schedule to have them pull the fiber into my individual apartment. It took them two days to get it pulled into my new one, but got the internet working after a long wait. Since I was the first one in my 400 unit complex they wanted to get my Internet up first, so I had to keep Brighthouses Cable for about a week in my new apartment. During that time the Series3 HD box worked just as well as it did in my other apartment running Brighthouses. Then they guy came in and installed the two Verizon FIOS cable cards and like the other guy said it took him a little while to get it going, but he got it. Also as the other guy said, they do have them, they do not like to offer it, but they do provide them when asked.

Two additional things with this:

1.	To get around the PPV and on demand not offered through the cable cards I had them provide me an extra HD box on the same TV. So if I want to watch PPV or on demand I just switch to another video source. I have had the cable cards installed in my HD box for three weeks now and have yet to switch over to watch it because, well TiVo Series3 is just that good, I dont want to switch, besides I have tons of stuff already TiVoed  as for the on demand guide, who needs theirs when you have the TiVo one, heck yeah!
2.	My only problem is that once I switched over to the Verizon Fios TV the individual program information for each show is very slow in coming up. It will display everything at a good speed, I get into the list of individual programs, but the second I switch to the description of the show it takes a good 10 to 15 seconds to come up and its driving me nuts. I have reset my box but it is still slow in displaying. I thought perhaps because the FIOS TV has so many more channels than Brighthouses that was the problem, but I dont know. It worked at regular speed when I had Bright house installed on my Series3, but now with the Verizon FIOS its really slow in displaying.

Can anyone help with this issue? Also if anyone has any questions about using FIOS I will answer you.

Tracy


----------



## wdave

FIOS is wired but not quite available in my neighborhood yet. So I stopped at the FIOS kiosk at my local mall this morning and asked about pricing. I was told:

$35.95 FIOS TV base price
$ 5.95 for each cable card
$ 2.95 for each "cable box"

I have an S3 with my main TV, plus two other TVs in the house, so she said I'd be paying:

35.95 + 5.95 (x2) + 2.95 (x2) = $53.75

Does that sound right? That's not what I thought I've read other's billing looks like for cable cards and extra outlets.


----------



## TexasAg

wdave said:


> FIOS is wired but not quite available in my neighborhood yet. So I stopped at the FIOS kiosk at my local mall this morning and asked about pricing. I was told:
> 
> $35.95 FIOS TV base price
> $ 5.95 for each cable card
> $ 2.95 for each "cable box"
> 
> I have an S3 with my main TV, plus two other TVs in the house, so she said I'd be paying:
> 
> 35.95 + 5.95 (x2) + 2.95 (x2) = $53.75
> 
> Does that sound right? That's not what I thought I've read other's billing looks like for cable cards and extra outlets.


My cards are $2.95 a piece. The $5.95 figure might be for M-stream cards, maybe?


----------



## acvthree

I was quoted $3.95 yesterday and told there were no multi-stream cards. That I would be charged the $3.95 for each of the cards.

I was also told that no one has ever ordered a cable card from Verizon and they had to go to second level support to place an order for two card with one television. They even brought in technical support who had never heard of a Tivo that used cable cards.

<sigh>

Al


----------



## homeguy

Is there a way to add a hard drive to the Fios HD DVR Box that Verison uses for their DVR?


----------



## mr_pink

Well, tivo3 running just fine here in Long Island, NY w/ 2 cablecards from FiOS. 

As of last week, they do not have multistream cable cards. Ive also read that the current series3 software does not even support multistream (contrary to what the manul says) - so I'm not even sure why people keep talking about it.

I'm paying $2.95/mo for each card.


----------



## TexasAg

I just noticed yesterday that I was getting channel 200 (Hallmark channel). This was one of the channels that I was missing. I'm still not getting 71 or 520, though.


----------



## Ziggy86

Did the FIOS TECH have an idea what Tivo was and how it needed to be setup?

We don't have FIOS TV in my area of queens yet but I sure hope when we do that they know what is needed for users of S3



mr_pink said:


> Well, tivo3 running just fine here in Long Island, NY w/ 2 cablecards from FiOS.
> 
> As of last week, they do not have multistream cable cards. Ive also read that the current series3 software does not even support multistream (contrary to what the manul says) - so I'm not even sure why people keep talking about it.
> 
> I'm paying $2.95/mo for each card.


----------



## mr_pink

Ziggy86 said:


> Did the FIOS TECH have an idea what Tivo was and how it needed to be setup?
> 
> We don't have FIOS TV in my area of queens yet but I sure hope when we do that they know what is needed for users of S3


They knew what it was but had never installed one. The tech arrived with only 1 cablecard (even though I confirmed like 5 times before they showed up that they would be bringing two) - but it wasnt a big deal he just left and came back 20 minutes later with another one - and a new verizon friend who seemed more experienced - (I think he just wanted to see a series 3 tivo  ) They had a tech bulletin they printed out from the office that explained FiOS specific tivo3 stuff.

We had a discussion about multistream cards - they had never heard of them but were really interested - they called some supervisors and everything to try and find out but noone had heard of any multistream cablecards coming in any time soon - or even that they were going to be getting them. I'm not sure where all this "Verizon will have multistream cards by November" talk originated from - but noone they had access to had ever heard that.

They insisted on following their tech notes instead of the "Give this to your cablecard installer" onesheet that comes with the tivo. The main difference was they powered the unit all the way off before inserting each card - took some extra time (two full bootups worth) - but seemed to work just fine.

They fatfingered one of the values the tivo spat back for hostid when entering it onto their activation portal - which required a 30 minute phone call to a tech somewhere to fix as it wouldnt let them go back and change it.

Overall I was pretty pleased. The Verizon techs, even the more inexperienced one - were head and shoulders above anyone from cablevision thats ever been to my house.


----------



## Ziggy86

glad it worked out for you. Do you have an HD TV? If so how does it look with FIOS?

Steven


----------



## mr_pink

Ziggy86 said:


> glad it worked out for you. Do you have an HD TV? If so how does it look with FIOS?
> 
> Steven


Well, Ive had HD over D*, HD from Cablevision and now HD from FiOS. I have both the s3 tivo on fios as well as their own dvr box (so I need 4 tuners, sue me  )

I would rate the services/stb's Ive had in terms of pure picture quality from best to worst:

S3 Tivo
Cablevision HD DVR (SA8300HD)
FiOS HD DVR (Some Moto POS)
D* (Standalone Samsung HD box)

The PQ from FiOS through the S3 is a really noticable improvement over their own STB. Cablevisions STB was better than Verizons even - in terms of PQ.

I must admit though - the truly obnoxious amount of VOD available from fios has me using their STB more than I thought I would.


----------



## ashu

Good it all worked out for you 

You have to be the first person on this planet that rated the SA8300HD ABOVE the Moto 6412 (or family) - if indeed that's the Moto you have from FIOS.  Unless you're ONLY talking about PQ!


----------



## mr_pink

ashu said:


> Good it all worked out for you
> 
> You have to be the first person on this planet that rated the SA8300HD ABOVE the Moto 6412 (or family) - if indeed that's the Moto you have from FIOS.  Unless you're ONLY talking about PQ!


I said "in terms of pure picture quality" - I thought that was pretty clear. He was asking about how it looked, so thats what I was rating - has nothing to do with features or usability.

But - I'm not sure at this point I would rate the Moto significantly above the SA8300 - they are both equally miserable in the usability department.


----------



## ashu

Whoa - missed that  Saw the "I would rate ..." and jumped straight to the list!

And I agree they're both miserable in terms of UI & reliability, compared to an S3.


----------



## globalreset

Finally got my cablecards installed today. Had a horrible time of it too.

Had a morning appt scheduled. At around noon, I called customer service to see where they were. They said they lost my work order but would have someone out within the hour. 3 hours later a guy shows up with no cabled cards.  He comes back in about 30 minutes with the cards.

Took about 10 minutes to get them all setup, though he had no idea how to do it. I told him to just hand me the cards and I would take care of it. Wrote down the serial numbers, inserted the first one, told him to activate it (which he did, rather quickly, on his laptop), inserted the second one, had him activate it (he had to "open a second port/outlet" for this to work, have no idea what that means). Once they were both running, I did get an error message from the TiVo saying that it couldn't decode all of the channels. I checked a lot of them (all the locals, all the HDs, all the premiums, and all the news channels) and I only found channel 71/520 missing. The tech was surprised by that but I told him that I understood it to be a known issue (thanks to this forum) and he didn't have to worry about it.

I was pleased to see that I have 100% signal strength on all channels. It's curious that I als have 100% on 71 and 520. In any case, the PQ looks great on my Sony Bravia XBR2 40" screen.

Btw, what is everyone using for the output format. At first, I selected Native, thinking that seemed like the best bet for a high-end lcd (just let the TV handle it). But I got really annoyed by the constant signal switching. I would see a tiny bit of screen noise, followed by a black screen for a second or two, then the show would appear in the proper resolution. When I set it to 1080i fixed, although there is some delay to tune the show, the screen never "blanks out" (I still see the TiVo info banner).


----------



## ashu

For a TV with a good scaler, you should leave it to Native and let the TV scale up/deinterlace signal as needed. The TiVo has a decent scaler, but it isn't great. Decide based on picture quality, not (based) on the minor inconveniece of longer pauses during an occasional activity like Channel Surfing. In fact, teach yourself to stop Channel Surfing and only use the Now Playing List


----------



## globalreset

ashu, that is an excellent point. You are, essentially, preaching to the choir. This isn't my first TiVo and I abandoned channel surfing years ago. However, this is my first HDTV... And I can't help but surf the HD channels every once in a while. You're right though that this will definitely die down once my regular shows start back up again... I should probably switch it back to native.

Btw, I upgraded my series 3 to a 500gb drive today. Very painless. I'm excited about having 65 hours of HDTV recording space now.


----------



## ashu

HD *does* make channel surfing addictive again. I have caught myself 10 minutes into the Sumo wrestling championship wondering why on EARTH I was watching that nonsense. The answer: Because it was in HD!

Using the NPL does have to be relearnt, once HD is combined with the convenience of an S3


----------



## acvthree

I had Verizon television installed today.

I've had the Verizon Fios for about two months, but the television portion was not turned on when I had the other services installed and I wanted to let few more S3s be installed before I tackled mine.

In one simple statement, I cannot imagine how this could have gone any better.

I was set up for an installation between 8:00 and 12:00. The installer called around 8:15 to say he would arrive in 10 minutes. This gave me time to fill up my coffee cup. 

He arrived on time and I had him move the truck to the back driveway. We went over the previously installed Fios which was a very clean install. I said I wanted his install to be just as clean. He said "no problem". We then went in and looked at the standard STB installation for the excersize room and the Tivo series 3 installation in the den.

We then discussed how we would hook up to my cable job. He wanted to replace all of the connectors and after seeing him do one, I was happy to have him change those out.

He first tested the signal strength coming from the ONT. We then ran two new cables to the location in the attic where I wanted to put the splitter. He drilled though the outside wall into the garage just next to where the Ethernet and power entered from the ONT. He placed a new connector on the end and connected to the ONT. He put a connector on the other cable to connec to the router (NIM) and did a clean cabling job next to the existing Ethernet line into the attic. He made some calculation based on the signal strength and chose a splitter with a number of links based on that signal strength. We moved into the attic. He mounted the splitter on the board where I have my home theater cableing connected. He put new connectors on all the cables, tested the signals and connected them to the splitter.

We then moved to the excercise room where he installed the STB. He put on new cables from the wall to the STB and from the STB to the TV. He tested the signal strength in between. He brought up the STB, showed me how it worked and even set up the remote to power the TV.

Onto the Series 3. I had made some joking comments when he arrived about him being the series 3 expert. He laughed but didn't say anything. When we sat down and started on the Tivo, I understood that it really wasn't a joke. He was very knowledgeable about the Series 3, even to the point of knowing that the slot 1 for the cable cards was on the bottom without looking at the back of the Tivo. I asked and he said he was installing one or two a week and that he really liked them and that he never had problems with the installs. He wrote the cable card numbers into his notepad and then started up his laptop. I turned everything on. He put both cards into the series 3. I mentioned that people seemed to have an easier time installing one at a time but he said it worked better with both in with the Verizon software. After installing the cable cards the cable card screen came up. He used the information from the cards to do the provisioning. All of that was done from the laptop with no call in to a support person. He provisioned the first one and the good "error" came up. He said "yep". He provisioned the second and when the "error" came up he said "yep" again. Obviously, this was old hat for him. It took about 10 minutes for all the shows to come up. The HBO didn't come up. He said "didn't you order HBO?" I said yes and he went back to the laptop. A few clicks later and HBO was up and running. 

That was it. He gave me his card and said if I had any problems to call him first. That usually it was something minor and he could do most things with his laptop.

I asked for his managers email address so I could send him an email about what a great job this guy had done.

I believe this was one of the best installation experiences I've ever had.

Al


----------



## douggmc

acvthree said:


> ...
> 
> I believe this was one of the best installation experiences I've ever had.
> ...
> 
> Al


I'll second that regarding my FIOS TV install in Tampa, FL. Very thorough and experienced installers (2 of them). As a side note, they were unionized CWA (I think "Communication Workers of America") that had both been with the Verizon (and the previous names) for years. Something to be said for the quality of decently paid unionized workers doing an install compared to the barely english speaking 20 year olds from Directv that invariably do poor jobs and have to come out multiple times!


----------



## resanders

{I believe this was one of the best installation experiences I've ever had.}

I live in New Jersey and can't wait to get FiOS TV installed on 1/14 and I hope my experience is as good as yours. Incidentally, has anyone had a successful NJ install, yet?


----------



## 6079 Smith W

resanders said:


> I live in New Jersey and can't wait to get FiOS TV installed on 1/14 and I hope my experience is as good as yours. Incidentally, has anyone had a successful NJ install, yet?


Red Bank, NJ here. I've had FIOS internet for almost a full year.

I had my FIOS TV install on 12/31, and it was completely smooth sailing.

The installer was very professional, and insisted on running all new coax rather than re-use the rat's nest of wire and splitters that had accumulated in this old house over the years.

I'm knowledgeable enough with the FIOS technology that he didn't mind me watching what was happening and asking questions. He wasn't very comfortable with the computer part of the FIOS stuff yet, so was thankful for my assistance.

When it came time to plug in the cablecards into the brand new S3, everything went through right the first time, even though this was his first time activating a TiVo. In fact, he made sure to take notes on what he had put in the various fields in his laptop service activation application.

Start to finish it took a good 7 to 8 hours, most of that time being the running of the new coax.

Just waiting for my Lifetime DirecTV service transfer to go through and I'll be off DTV for good.


----------



## bareyb

Leo_N said:


> Yes, it'd be a hassle for PPV and you would lose OnDemand, but you don't want their intereactive guide anyway, Tivo will have its own built in.


You can always rent one of their boxes for interactive PPV and OnDemand. I think the box costs me 10 bucks a month or so. Much of the time I call it in anyway so I can record it and watch it on my TiVo (if you use their box it will only record on their box, but it is convenient late at night when you don't feel like calling). Overall it hasn't really been a big deal.


----------



## Ilene

To acvthree - I think that you can thank some of us early trail blazers for the NTX Verizon area and our TiVo installs for making yours go easy. I am very excited for you. 
You can see from my other posts in this forum, my installer was less than thrilled to be installing cableCards, but non the less we were successful - it took almost 10 hours for wire, etc for both internet and tv. All was well until one of the cards failed. The bottom card was actually causing both tuners to pixellate. 

Called Verizon and the tech shows up for the appt nearly 6 hours late.
The guy that came, didn't have a card with him - had to go back to the office in the dark as it was almost 7 pm, couldn't find one, saw one laying on a desk (I think) and brought it. It was a bad card (confirmed it today). Another tech came over to help him out and he knew what he was doing. He did the install on his computer (was it Tim who helped you?). Tim also replaced my splitters, tested my signals. I also added gold caps from RadioShack over the unused coaxs to prevent interference. It pixellated, but quit after I did a restart. 

Since the new card was bad, I could only watch non local stations on card2, but at least I had 2 tuners. So we watched CNN, ESPN, National Geographic etc on tuner 2 and ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox on card1.
So I took the chance to see if the 3rd time was the charm. So far I can say, it was.
2 guys showed up (not sure why - unless one was learning). When I told him what I needed, he said - don't worry - no problem. He knew what to do. I showed him the Conditional Access screens for both cards. He agreed that card1 was bad. I took out card1 and replaced it with his new card - which he assured me was new and good. Almost immediately, the MMI screen came up. He then called in to have it activated. Got the "good" error message! Yea! Had to restart the TiVo to get the accessing channels message (I was praying because I don't think it is recommended to do this), but he said it was OK for me to that and I am proud to say that we are good to go. 

GO NORTH TEXAS VERIZON FIOS! I love that it is all digital! Hurry and order today, prices go up tomorrow.


----------



## String

I have install for FIOS in Montgomery County, MD setup for Friday. I ran the setup for my S3 last night. The issue is that They do not have MC FIOS as an option during setup. 

Is anyone else already setup in my area? How do I get tivo to do the hookup for channels Etc. for FIOS in my area.

Thanks


----------



## JohnBrowning

The techs across the country are obviously now getting more experience with CableCards. When I first had mine installed in my Mitsu TV, it took several days until I got the right VZ support tech on the phone that knew how to properly cold init the cablecard. Everything has work just fine ever since. When I installed my S3, I just moved the cablecard from the TV to the TiVo and all is happy! VZ makes it convenient by NOT marrying the CC to the device. I've not bothered getting a second CC for my TiVo. If I can get a multistream card in the future, I'll probably do that.


----------



## jacobp

String,
FIOS TV is available in Montgomery County, MD??? I live in Potomac and I did not realize it was available yet. Where do you live, if you don't mind me asking.


----------



## AbMagFab

jacobp said:


> String,
> FIOS TV is available in Montgomery County, MD??? I live in Potomac and I did not realize it was available yet. Where do you live, if you don't mind me asking.


MoCo approved it in late November, but I'm not aware of any area being activated yet. I call Verizon about every two weeks, and they keep telling me it hasn't been activated yet in MoCo anywhere, but it's coming soon.

Perhaps the previous poster is confused, or the installer is confused, and they're just installing internet now? MoCo isn't even listed on the channel lineup page yet (although Anne Arundal and Howard are listed).

I'd imagine once it's available in MoCo, it'll show up on the Tivo.


----------



## ashu

I doubt VZ changes their channel lineup much. Just run GS (for MoCo) with Howard or Fairfax/Herndon as your location


----------



## passatdream

I am running a Series3 with two Verizon FiOS cable cards (with HD) and I'm not having a single problem. Installation was quick and worked perfectly the first time. Love it.


----------



## String

AbMagFab said:


> MoCo approved it in late November, but I'm not aware of any area being activated yet. I call Verizon about every two weeks, and they keep telling me it hasn't been activated yet in MoCo anywhere, but it's coming soon.
> 
> Perhaps the previous poster is confused, or the installer is confused, and they're just installing internet now? MoCo isn't even listed on the channel lineup page yet (although Anne Arundal and Howard are listed).
> 
> I'd imagine once it's available in MoCo, it'll show up on the Tivo.


No confusion here. I have install setup for Friday. A friend of mine had his installed today. MoCo approved Verizon at the end of november, and my neighborhood started allowing installs at the end of december. I am in Silver Spring.

If you need I can post a pic on Friday.


----------



## String

ashu said:


> I doubt VZ changes their channel lineup much. Just run GS (for MoCo) with Howard or Fairfax/Herndon as your location


On my tivo, it does not have Fairfax/Herndon, just Howard/Annapolis. The issue, I believe, is that they get baltimore locals, not DC Locals. Gotta be up and running for Jack on sunday night!


----------



## dtee

I had the FiOS installation last Wednesday. All went reasonably well, until I realized I was getting pixelation on only 5 HD channels. Had FiOS out today to swap cards and the cards came locked and were not able to be swapped . So they checked out everything else from the ONT to the Tivo and all measured very well. Their guru said it had to be the tuners in the TiVo as the Cable card is only an encryption device. I called TiVO for an RA number and they said it had to be bad cable cards! All the other channels are terrific and the HD is fine on all but those five channels. When I let the TiVO test the signal strength on these channels it is variable, form 82-94, and as such pixelates. I am now frustrated as I don't know who is really right. TiVo says if it was the box all the channels and the guide would pixelate. Any ideas would be appreciated. The kicker is on both tuners the problem is identical with two different cable cards.


----------



## resanders

6079 Smith W said:


> Red Bank, NJ here. I've had FIOS internet for almost a full year.
> 
> I had my FIOS TV install on 12/31, and it was completely smooth sailing.
> 
> The installer was very professional, and insisted on running all new coax rather than re-use the rat's nest of wire and splitters that had accumulated in this old house over the years.
> 
> I'm knowledgeable enough with the FIOS technology that he didn't mind me watching what was happening and asking questions. He wasn't very comfortable with the computer part of the FIOS stuff yet, so was thankful for my assistance.
> 
> When it came time to plug in the cablecards into the brand new S3, everything went through right the first time, even though this was his first time activating a TiVo. In fact, he made sure to take notes on what he had put in the various fields in his laptop service activation application.
> 
> Start to finish it took a good 7 to 8 hours, most of that time being the running of the new coax.
> 
> Just waiting for my Lifetime DirecTV service transfer to go through and I'll be off DTV for good.


That's good to know. I've had two S3's for a couple months and it's running fine with Cablevision CCs although it took them about five to six visits (I understand it's a learning process) and one replacement S3 (bent pin in slot 1) later. But, I think Verizon has a more seamless approach to installation... they use laptops for activating and binding the cards which should be a lot quicker than sitting on the phone. I'll let you know how my install goes.


----------



## TexasAg

resanders said:


> That's good to know. I've had two S3's for a couple months and it's running fine with Cablevision CCs although it took them about five to six visits (I understand it's a learning process) and one replacement S3 (bent pin in slot 1) later. But, I think Verizon has a more seamless approach to installation... they use laptops for activating and binding the cards which should be a lot quicker than sitting on the phone. I'll let you know how my install goes.


They don't actually appear to bind the cards. In my case, I can swap the cards freely between the slots, and I know others have said they can take the cards out of the S3 and put them in their TVs without problem.

But I do agree that Verizon installs do seem more seemless - it makes a lot of sense for them have those laptops, since they can enter all of the information right there.


----------



## globalreset

dtee said:


> I had the FiOS installation last Wednesday. All went reasonably well, until I realized I was getting pixelation on only 5 HD channels. Had FiOS out today to swap cards and the cards came locked and were not able to be swapped . So they checked out everything else from the ONT to the Tivo and all measured very well. Their guru said it had to be the tuners in the TiVo as the Cable card is only an encryption device. I called TiVO for an RA number and they said it had to be bad cable cards! All the other channels are terrific and the HD is fine on all but those five channels. When I let the TiVO test the signal strength on these channels it is variable, form 82-94, and as such pixelates. I am now frustrated as I don't know who is really right. TiVo says if it was the box all the channels and the guide would pixelate. Any ideas would be appreciated. The kicker is on both tuners the problem is identical with two different cable cards.


I just started getting the same problem as of last night (Jan 9). I've had the cable cards in the TiVo working fine since Dec 27. But last night, I noticed my recording of House was severely pixelated and dropping audio. I switched over to the FiOS DVR and it was fine (luckily I hadn't cleared my scheduled recordings off their box yet). I noticed that I'm only getting it on the HD Locals. All other channels (including all other HD channels) work fine. And my signal strength reads 100 for both cards when they are on any other HD channel. As soon as I tune an HD local (on either card), I see the variable signal strength (82-94-ish) with an occasion NOT AVAILABLE message.

I'm at a loss as to what other debug I can do. I unplugged my router from the coax, thinking that the IP routing it does over coax could be interfering. I unplugged the tv's in the house from the coax as well. There was no change. I've rebooted the TiVo and reseated the cards as well....

Has anyone else dealt with this problem?? I'm very anxious for a solution.


----------



## TexasAg

I had the exact same problem on HD locals only. I did two things. 

First, I put a 9db attenuator (actually a 6db one + a 3db one) that Verizon left when they did my install. The signal is pretty hot since it gets generated at the side of your house rather than 500 feet away. That dropped my average signal strength to around 97 for HD locals.

Second, I got a terminating resistor from Radio Shack for the OTA antenna input (the second coax input) on the S3.

Not real sure which one fixed the problem, but I don't have that problem any more.


----------



## globalreset

Thanks for the feedback, TexasAg. I'll be stopping by Altex today to try to grab a terminator and an attenuator. I'll report back later if that fixes it for me.


----------



## JohnBrowning

Just this past weekend I started having pixelation issues only on the local HD channels. All of the cable HD channels are fine except Discovery HD. It has always had pixelation problems for me. I need to move the cableCARD back into the TV to see if it is consistent.


----------



## TexasAg

My S3 rebooted last night, and we have begun receiving channel 71 (CNN Headline News). Not sure why - I don't think we got a software update (maybe we did and it was just a small fix).

This was one of the channels that the S3 said we were receiving, but it simply displayed a black screen.


----------



## globalreset

So, I picked up the terminator and the 9db worth of attenuators yesterday and was all set to try them out last night. Before I attached them I noticed that, after two nights of pixelation, the problem just went away. A solution us engineer's hate. I went ahead and attached both to the system and I'll probably try removing them a few times this weekend to see if it comes back (just so I can test the hypothesis that we're fixing the problem).


----------



## JohnBrowning

I only saw the pixelation on DHD last night.


----------



## AndyMorrison

TexasAg said:


> My S3 rebooted last night, and we have begun receiving channel 71 (CNN Headline News). Not sure why - I don't think we got a software update (maybe we did and it was just a small fix).
> 
> This was one of the channels that the S3 said we were receiving, but it simply displayed a black screen.


I found that channel 71 (and 520) magically appeared earlier today too. I don't believe my machine rebooted.


----------



## dtee

Pixellation back after 4 days of perfect service. Same 5 channels that I had posted earlier. Problem had gone away since Tuesday and came back about the same time I noticed it last week. Almost like a switch was thrown somewhere. Bizarre. I know if I call VZ they will send out the crew to "prove" to me it's the TiVo. Last time they almost went so far as to swap out the ONT. I had my fingers crossed that this would not be a chronic problem, I'm not so optimistic at this point. I'm still unsure about how the stations are tuned. Does the TiVo have tuners that actually tune the channels or is that the job of the cable cards. 

PS: When I had contacted TiVo last week the tech said that he 8.1 update might help this problem. I just hope it eliminates the audio drop out when changing stations using the guide. Thats just annoying, but this pixelation issue approaches deal breaker territory. 

Good luck to all in this matter and enjoy the weekend.


----------



## dtee

All the bad channels are back again at full (94-97) strength. This is definitely a signal strength issue on the Verizon Fios side. When the signal is above 94 on HD no problems at all are experienced. When below that threshold, pixelation occurs. With a good signal the tuners do their job just fine. If the tuners were bad the problems would be consistant at all signal levels, I would presume. The affected channels are all national feeds and are all HD. Anyone else experiencing these or other problems with Fios. All in all with the exception of this problem the Fios experience has been pretty positive.


----------



## TexasAg

dtee said:


> All the bad channels are back again at full (94-97) strength. This is definitely a signal strength issue on the Verizon Fios side. When the signal is above 94 on HD no problems at all are experienced. When below that threshold, pixelation occurs. With a good signal the tuners do their job just fine. If the tuners were bad the problems would be consistant at all signal levels, I would presume. The affected channels are all national feeds and are all HD. Anyone else experiencing these or other problems with Fios. All in all with the exception of this problem the Fios experience has been pretty positive.


Keep in mind, the S3's signal strength meter measures the strength of the desired signal and noise, not just the desired signal. Verizon techs have meters they can use to measure the desired signal only. Sounds like they need to check the wiring.


----------



## resanders

resanders said:


> That's good to know. I've had two S3's for a couple months and it's running fine with Cablevision CCs although it took them about five to six visits (I understand it's a learning process) and one replacement S3 (bent pin in slot 1) later. But, I think Verizon has a more seamless approach to installation... they use laptops for activating and binding the cards which should be a lot quicker than sitting on the phone. I'll let you know how my install goes.


OK... the install on Sunday (1/14) went well... their activation process seems a lot quicker than Cablevision and I think Cablevision's cablecards may be older or need new firmware/updated cards. The channels look great... some HD channels didn't come in but that's because I didn't include them on my original order so I should see them tonight. The S3 automatically updated ALL channels on my season passes so I was happy about that. Overall, I feel the FiOS TV programming content is better! No NEWS12NJ but I've heard there might be a FiOS ONE news channel?? It seems my internet is a little slow but I think that is just a system resource issue. Incidentally, does anyone know how to clear unnecessary processes in Windows Task Manager? Good luck to all new FiOS TVers out there!


----------



## dcoxarc

Okay, I am going to be getting FIOS and wanted to get the S3. I've seen a lot of posts about transfering your lifetime subscription to the new S3, but I just got off the phone with Tivo and they told me that - sorry - you can't do that and you'll have to pay your monthly subscription. Anyone else run into this?? And if you haven't, how are you getting your lifetime subscription transfered?? Any info would be great. Personally, I think it's crap. I've been with Tivo since they first came out. I used the montlhy for a year or so, but then switched to the lifetime. For them to say tough because they have a new HD version is rude. Anyway, thanks for the help.


----------



## bilbo

go to tivo.com/vip and call that phone #. the lifetime transfer is only for stand alone tivo units. directv tivos are not eligible.


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## dcoxarc

Bilbo - Thank you so much for that info!


----------



## jimtronic

bilbo said:


> directv tivos are not eligible.


They changed the policy on this, DirecTV units are eligible, I just did it yesterday. IF you look at the fine print on that link they removed the disclamer.


----------



## Jasper

I just had the FIOS tv installed last week and everything works great. The cable cards took about 20 min to install and it was relatively painless. The tech had only installed them one other time so it was a learning process for both of us, but it really was easy. 
I receive all of the channels I'm supposed to, including 71, and have had zero problems.


----------



## siersema

This may be a redundant question but I am a newbie to Tivo units. I have Directs Tivo units and like them. I am thinking of getting a S3. If I have Verizon FIOS TV, do I need to pay monthly charges to Tivo?


----------



## TexasAg

siersema said:


> This may be a redundant question but I am a newbie to Tivo units. I have Directs Tivo units and like them. I am thinking of getting a S3. If I have Verizon FIOS TV, do I need to pay monthly charges to Tivo?


Yes, and you'll need to rent two single-stream or one multi-stream CableCard from Verizon. Each card is $3/month. I don't think the multi-stream CableCards are available yet, so you'd be looking at $6/month to Verizon.


----------



## acvthree

The cable cards are $4 a month now, so $8 total.

Al


----------



## bilbo

jimtronic said:


> They changed the policy on this, DirecTV units are eligible, I just did it yesterday. IF you look at the fine print on that link they removed the disclamer.


thanks for the correction, jimtronic.

the last time i checked the tivo.com/vip website it explicitly said lifetimed DirectTV Tivos were ineligible, but Tivo seems to keep changing the rules while the game is being played. i was aware of a window in December for LT'ed DirectTivo owners -- I am glad the window is back open again.

Tivo should try to sell as many S3's as possible IMHO (that would be best for all who have purchased/transferred LT IMHO because Tivo's longterm viability is still in question).


----------



## jhimmel

acvthree said:


> The cable cards are $4 a month now, so $8 total.
> 
> Al


I just ordered two more today, and was told I would be charged $2.95 each, not $4.

Jim H.


----------



## acvthree

Thanks for the information. 

I haven't gotten my first bill, but I was quoted $3.95 in Carrollton, Texas. I just went out on the web site and can't find a price listed. It just says for a low price.

Where are you located? I wonder if it is location dependent. Either that or the person who quoted me was incorrect or I heard them wrong.

$2.95 would be great.

Al

Al


----------



## jmcain

I just today spoke with a Verizon technician who has already installed FIOS in Northern VA. He told me that he has completed installations with TiVo Series 3 components. Since Series 3 accepts cable cards ($2.99/mo/ea), it can be connected via FIOS and present a "better HD picture" than I receive over the air. It, however, cannot be used in the multiroom viewing media center. BTW, the set top boxes that connect to the media center do not currently provide HD--just standard video.


----------



## jmcain

I just today spoke with a Verizon technician who has already installed FIOS in Northern VA. He told me that he has completed installations with TiVo Series 3 components. Since Series 3 accepts cable cards ($2.99/mo/ea), it can be connected via FIOS and present a "better HD picture" than I receive over the air. It, however, cannot be used in the multiroom viewing media center. 

BTW, the set top boxes that connect to the media center do not currently provide HD--just standard video. Since all of my TVs are HD, FIOS still cannot provide me with multiroom viewing for at least two to three more months.


----------



## ATB

Probably a silly question, but since FIOS has different channel line ups in each region (2 in NJ alone), how does the S3's guide know the channel line up?


----------



## acvthree

You give the S3 your zip code and then it give you the choices for your area. Fios will be one of them. It thien uses that information to determine which channel line up to use.

Al


----------



## ashu

jmcain said:


> I just today spoke with a Verizon technician who has already installed FIOS in Northern VA. He told me that he has completed installations with TiVo Series 3 components. Since Series 3 accepts cable cards ($2.99/mo/ea), it can be connected via FIOS and present a "better HD picture" than I receive over the air. It, however, cannot be used in the multiroom viewing media center.
> 
> BTW, the set top boxes that connect to the media center do not currently provide HD--just standard video. Since all of my TVs are HD, FIOS still cannot provide me with multiroom viewing for at least two to three more months.


Yeah, the TiVo S3 & Verizon's Media Center viewing solution thingamajig are completely unrelated.

Not sure about the 'better than OTA' claim. Verizon likely retranmits locals just as they receive them - usually OTA! I doubt they massag it to look better  That's just sales talk.

But I DO agree that they (Verizon) won't do what DirecTV?dish (always) and Cable (sometimes - but not in our area) do - and that is massage the HD feeds down to use less bandwidth! That' because they have more than enough bandwidth for all the channels they currently carry.


----------



## avpman

Tank99 said:


> 1.	To get around the PPV and on demand not offered through the cable cards I had them provide me an extra HD box on the same TV. So if I want to watch PPV or on demand I just switch to another video source. I have had the cable cards installed in my HD box for three weeks now and have yet to switch over to watch it because, well TiVo Series3 is just that good,
> 
> Tracy


I'm also in Tampa and just got my FIOS and S3. When you say _"To get around the PPV and on demand not offered through the cable cards I had them provide me an extra HD box on the same TV._" Did they provide the additional box for free or at a monthly charge?


----------



## kurtster

OMG I'm glad I found this thread!

I went to the Burlington Mall in Burington, MA and spoke to the person in charge of the FIOS kiosk in the mall. She told me FIOS TV would NEVER work with TiVO because of things Tivo's business practices. Hah! People have their S3 working with FIOS I see and she is full of it.

Frankly I couldn't believe how she kind of went off on Tivo like they did something to anger Verizon. I don't think the people working at this kiosk have a clue how cool Tivo is and why people want it.

Anyway, I'm still with DirecTV and two HR10-250s but my Internet service is FIOS. I can't bring myself to switch just yet because I will lose the MLB Extra Innings package, and the cost of two S3s and a switch to FIOS TV would be more of a financial hit than I can take right now. I've got two HDTVs so putting SD on one of them would drive me nuts. Can't wait 'till prices come down on S3 boxes eventually. Sweet things they are.


----------



## acvthree

It is an interesting reaction. It wasn't quite that bad, but I had the same sort of response from the person I placed the order with.

It's really too bad. Tivo Series 3 and Fios seem to be a great match. A good marketing team would see an opportunity here to bring in some high end customers.

Al


----------



## rdrrepair

http://fioswatch.com/2006/09/13/tivo-releases-series3-hdtv-dvr-for-digital-cable/

TiVo FiosTV press release!!!


----------



## TexasAg

That press release is almost 5 months old!!!


----------



## wmcbrine

willettg said:


> CH 81 - CSPAN3: No audio on TiVo, works fine on Moto


Same here, also on 496 (Bridges), and my local sports networks CSN (65) and MASN (66).



> CH 200 - Hallmark Channel: Not working on TiVo, works fine on Moto


No problems with 200 here.



> CH 520 - CNN Headline News: Not working on TiVo, works fine on Moto. Oddly enough, CH70 for CNN Headline News is working fine.


70 is CNN; 71 is Headline News.

71/520 is blank for me as well.


----------



## avpman

wmcbrine said:


> Same here, also on 496 (Bridges), and my local sports networks CSN (65) and MASN (66).
> 
> No problems with 200 here.
> 
> 70 is CNN; 71 is Headline News.
> 
> 71/520 is blank for me as well.


FIOS, Tampa, Florida.
70: CNN
71: CNN Headline News
520:CNN Headline News

All active on my S3


----------



## wmcbrine

avpman said:


> FIOS, Tampa, Florida.
> 70: CNN
> 71: CNN Headline News
> 520:CNN Headline News
> 
> All active on my S3


Yeah, I think 70 is active for everyone, and willettg was just getting it confused with 71. 520 is just a mirror of 71, so you'll either get both or get neither.

How about the sound on 81 and 496?


----------



## avpman

wmcbrine said:


> Yeah, I think 70 is active for everyone, and willettg was just getting it confused with 71. 520 is just a mirror of 71, so you'll either get both or get neither.
> 
> How about the sound on 81 and 496?


No sound on those two channels. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


----------



## wmcbrine

avpman said:


> No sound on those two channels. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


Anyone else? I suspect the problem is universal.

We need to get Tivo and Verizon working on this. I did call VZ about it last week... they said they'd get back to me, but haven't. But if this is a system-wide problem, dealing with it on the CSR level probably won't work anyway. What can we do, that won't just get Tivo and VZ pointing fingers at each other?


----------



## fl_dba

Is the SDV problem coming down the road for some cable companies something that FIOS might also try to use someday? Or is it not relevant for this technology.


----------



## ah30k

fl_dba said:


> Is the SDV problem coming down the road for some cable companies something that FIOS might also try to use someday? Or is it not relevant for this technology.


Verizon has its hands full right now just rolling out the basics. Remember they are decades behind the traditional cable companies in terms of established experience. Once they settle down and hit steady state, they might consider it. The FIOS infrastructure is slightly different from the cable companies in that they use IP for much of their interactive content. This frees some bandwidth for now.


----------



## jhimmel

wmcbrine said:


> Anyone else? I suspect the problem is universal.


No sound on 81 here.


----------



## Black Max

No sound on channels 81 and 496 in my area either.


----------



## wmcbrine

wmcbrine said:


> What can we do, that won't just get Tivo and VZ pointing fingers at each other?


...and the finger pointing has officially begun. Verizon did get back to me after I posted yesterday, and sent out a crew. They wanted to try swapping CableCards, but didn't have any, so they just checked the error logs on my one VZ STB (fine) and left, promising to come back with CCs today. A different crew came with CCs today, but they never tried them. They tested the signal on the line (fine), then called home, and said they were told "it's a Tivo compatibility problem." They wouldn't do anything else at that point. Not that I think that swapping the cards would've helped.



P.S. Anybody in the Metro D.C. area, or Anne Arundel/Howard County, are you getting sound on CSN (65) or MASN (66)?


----------



## Roderigo

wmcbrine said:


> Anybody in the Metro D.C. area, or Anne Arundel/Howard County, are you getting sound on CSN (65) or MASN (66)?


Seems like you're having the same issue as another thread. Here's a tivo response:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4811900&&#post4811900


----------



## resanders

I live in New Jersey... Is anyone having problems with receiving certain FIOS HD National channels (TNT (825), ESPN (826), etc? ) I was on the phone with tech support last night and they've escalated the problem and hopefully will get to the bottom of it. I was able to have WWE on demand and France channel added but no luck with HD content although I was set up with HD premium channels (HBO, Cinemax, etc.) when they first installed. I tried to clear and delete everything and re-run guided setup to see if that would bring in those channels but no luck. Just curious if anyone else is expriencing a similar problem.


----------



## rileyfamily

I have Verizon FIOS in Anne Arundel County, Maryland. Have two Series 2's working with STB's and blasters - no problems. My Series 3 with 2 cablecards is having the same problems listed above. No audio on 65, 66 & 81 and nothing at all on 71 (520) and 871. Just got off the phone with Verizon (2nd call about this). Got a good guy who said that it is a known issue and they are "working" on it. Verizon is pointing fingers at TiVo and TiVo is pointing back at Verizon. The tech pointed out that various providers around the US are having issues with different channels. ??? Probably doesn't help anyone but this is what I have so far.


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## wmcbrine

rileyfamily said:


> No audio on 65, 66 & 81 and nothing at all on 71 (520) and 871.


871 is fine here, but it's only on part-time. (MPT alternates their HD subchannel with three more SD subchannels.) You should be seeing "SIGN OFF" in the guide when it's not on. No?

Tivo is also providing incorrect data for MPT's HD subchannel on Fios, 806; but that's a subject for another thread...


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## wdave

wmcbrine said:


> P.S. Anybody in the Metro D.C. area, or Anne Arundel/Howard County, are you getting sound on CSN (65) or MASN (66)?


Howard County here, just installed yesterday. I can confirm the same system wide problems as everyone else:

71, 520: No picture, no sound
65, 66, 81, 496: No sound


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## bilbo

Southeastern Pennsylvania with an S3 (and an S2)
Pixelation problems (due to CableCard?) with SciFi (160)
Also noticed pixelation problems on Travel Channel (150) and Bravo (165)
Verizon's Motorola QIP2500-3 that my S2 is hooked up to seems to get these channels fine.
I noticed problems last night; my wife mentioned it to me a day or two ago.


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## bkdtv

If you are in DE / PA, some channels on FiOS will exhibit severe pixelization / macroblocking this week while they replace and reconfigure some equipment. It should clear up in a few days.


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## wmcbrine

I see sporadic pixelation on a number of channels, but nothing consistent, nor that I can say is different on S3 vs. VZ STB (although I hardly watch the VZ STB). But the most pixelation I've seen has been on WGN (29), on the set that's hooked up via _analog_.


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## bilbo

thanks for the info bkdtv, but the pixelation only appears on my television hooked up to my series3 with the cablecards. i recorded the second showing of dresden files and battlestar galactica on my series 2 (which is hooked up to a motorola qip2500-3 digital cable box) without any problem. why would i only have problems with the series3 that uses the cablecards?


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## acvthree

I didn't see any pixilization on those channels here.

Have you check the cable connections? I think that would be more likely than the cable cards themselves. It is also a comment element between both cable cards.

Al


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## bilbo

my cable connection seems good, and i used to receive four channels (scifi, bravo, travel, and tbs - channel 52) without any problem. i'm hoping it is some sort of verizon's infrastructure as bkdtv mentioned earlier. my signal strength is low on these channels now (around 95-96, whereas all the other channels are 98, 99, or 100) -- i don't know what the signal strength was a week ago on these channels, but i would guess it was 98 or 99.


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## acvthree

I'm glad you could understand what I had written. I'm not sure I could have. Sorry about that. 

I think you may have to get someone out to test the strength coming out of the ONT and then work back from there. Otherwise, I don't have a good suggestion.

Al


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## Ron Tobin

Last night, while watching American Idol (HD channel 803), severe pixelation began, causing loss of the audio stream, and it never recovered. The next show we watched was CSI NY (HD channel 800) and it began with occasional audio dropouts but no real pixelization.

We just got Fios installed on Monday, and at the same time I transferred my lifetime subscription to the new S3. Needless to say, this was not a very good start with my VZ viewing experience. We are contemplating abandoning Dish Network and Comcast, in favor Verizon Fios.

I called VZ tech support, and they had me test some other digital channels, beginning in the 200s, and almost all of them exhibited the same pixelization characteristics. When I told them which receiver I was using, they stated that the Fiber Optic system is not compatible with the HD Tivo, and they don't support it. They had me try my other HD receiver (Moto 6200) to confirm that the signal coming to my house is fine.

So now we're in the finger point mode: VZ claiming incompatibility, and I'm sure Tivo will say it's a VZ problem. Should I just give up on the S3 until the VZ cable card and Tivo can work in harmony? Perhaps get the VZ DVR in the interim?

BTW, this morning I turned on the S3, and all is fine. I even ran the "test channels" on each of the cable cards, and there's no problems. Intermittents are a bear to deal with.

Any comments would be appreciated.


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## CrispyCritter

Ron Tobin said:


> Last night, while watching American Idol (HD channel 803), severe pixelation began, causing loss of the audio stream, and it never recovered. The next show we watched was CSI NY (HD channel 800) and it began with occasional audio dropouts but no real pixelization.
> 
> We just got Fios installed on Monday, and at the same time I transferred my lifetime subscription to the new S3. Needless to say, this was not a very good start with my VZ viewing experience. We are contemplating abandoning Dish Network and Comcast, in favor Verizon Fios.
> 
> I called VZ tech support, and they had me test some other digital channels, beginning in the 200s, and almost all of them exhibited the same pixelization characteristics. When I told them which receiver I was using, they stated that the Fiber Optic system is not compatible with the HD Tivo, and they don't support it. They had me try my other HD receiver (Moto 6200) to confirm that the signal coming to my house is fine.
> 
> So now we're in the finger point mode: VZ claiming incompatibility, and I'm sure Tivo will say it's a VZ problem. Should I just give up on the S3 until the VZ cable card and Tivo can work in harmony? Perhaps get the VZ DVR in the interim?
> 
> BTW, this morning I turned on the S3, and all is fine. I even ran the "test channels" on each of the cable cards, and there's no problems. Intermittents are a bear to deal with.
> 
> Any comments would be appreciated.


They don't support it, but they still have to send a signal that is within specs.

There was a bunch of people in one of the Texas areas (it might have been Dallas) with the same problem. The belief was that the FIOS signal was much too strong (for some on all channels, for others on specific frequency ranges). After a couple of weeks of this, everything cleared up and as far as I know has not returned. I don't know if it was ever confirmed to be too strong of a signal; you might search and see if you can find those threads. But the experiences there indicate it was a Verizon problem (despite their initial denials.)


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## bkdtv

Ron,

The same behavior happens with the Motorola STBs/DVRs on occasion -- on those boxes, you fix it by turning the box off and that back on. Sometimes, even bringing up certain menus fixes the problem. It looks like some kind of buffer issue.


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## Ron Tobin

CrispyCritter said:


> They don't support it, but they still have to send a signal that is within specs.
> 
> There was a bunch of people in one of the Texas areas (it might have been Dallas) with the same problem. The belief was that the FIOS signal was much too strong (for some on all channels, for others on specific frequency ranges). After a couple of weeks of this, everything cleared up and as far as I know has not returned. I don't know if it was ever confirmed to be too strong of a signal; you might search and see if you can find those threads. But the experiences there indicate it was a Verizon problem (despite their initial denials.)


Not sure if I found the exact threads you're referring to, but I what I will do (when I'm home later) is check the signal level and also see if there's any attenuation on that line. The particular feed to the S3 was split by Verizon for them to install the router at that location in my home. However, I've not yet signed up for their internet service while evaluating the TV service. But I'm ready to go for internet, once I make that decision.


----------



## Ron Tobin

bkdtv said:


> Ron,
> 
> The same behavior happens with the Motorola STBs/DVRs on occasion -- on those boxes, you fix it by turning the box off and that back on. Sometimes, even bringing up certain menus fixes the problem. It looks like some kind of buffer issue.


Not practical though when watching a previously recorded show, since this pixelization is in the saved recording.


----------



## Ron Tobin

Can anyone tell me what the correct cable signal level should be on the S3? Is 98 too high? Should it be attenuated down to the lower 90s? I'm wondering if, when it pixelized, it was peaking over 100.


----------



## globalreset

I'm a Dallas FiOS customer and I experienced the severe pixelation during American Idol last night as well. I was less than a third of the way through it when it started and it continued through the rest of the show (making for a very upset wife).

I previously posted that I added the line terminator and the attenuators, though the problem had mysteriously cleared up on its own. Last night, the problem was pretty strong on all of my HD locals. So I took the opportunity to play with the attenuators a bit. I tried 0, 3, 6, 9, 10, 13, and 16 db (using a few combinations of attenuators I picked up) and saw very little effect on the problem.

Each cycle of testing involved me going to a analog (or SD local) channel (like channel 4), watching a second of video with no pixelation, and going back to an HD local (like channel 804). Typically I could watch a few seconds of the HD local before it started to pixelate again. Occasionally, I'd have to flip around the HD local channes before it started up again. Once it starts, changing the channel to any HD local shows constant pixelation. The only way to get it to clear up again (even if momentarily) was to go back to (e.g.) channel 4 then back to the HD local.

No amount of attenuation had any effect on the pattern I saw here. Signal strength on the HD Local channels oscillated around in about the same region (maybe plus or minus 2 points) of 84-92-ish (with "no signal" messages flashing sporadically).

Since this problem was so intermittent before but stayed strong all last night (and even continued this morning), I assume Verizon is really tearing some stuff up somewhere. Although, it's obvious that TiVo could handle this problem with a patch to their boxes (since my Verizon FiOS DVR, playing side-by-side with the S3, shows no problems in the signal)... I can understand TiVo's argument that they shouldn't have to. But since the S3 did cost a small fortune, I kind of expect them to.

I'd love to hear some kind of official word on this... As I detest contacting tech support (so they can just put me on hold and make me wait for them to talk down to me).


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## TexasAg

I was the one who said that the OTA terminating resistor and the attenuators might help. Looks like I was wrong. While it seemed to work for me for quite a while, I noticed the problem was back last night. It may have cleared up on its own at the same time I was trying the OTA terminating resistor and the attenuators. I hadn't noticed it for so long since I'd switched to an OTA antenna and have been recording everything on local HD stations from that. 

At this point, I'd suggest that anyone with Fios use an OTA antenna. I can understand Tivo not wanting to create specialized code for every cable provider, and it does seem like this problem affects Fios users almost exclusively. 

Also, I will say that the S3 has an extremely good OTA tuner. I'm 35-40 miles away from the HD towers in Dallas. I can get every single local HD station using a home-made antenna formed by stripping the shielding off of about 3.5 feet of coax cable, where the stripped cable is mounted horizontally in an interior closet in my house. I used an amplifier to help improve the reception. The signal strength shown by the S3 is as low as 68-69 on some days, but the programs recorded by the S3 are still perfect. It is also able to receive both VHF and UHF stations.


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## Ron Tobin

TexasAg said:


> I was the one who said that the OTA terminating resistor and the attenuators might help. Looks like I was wrong. While it seemed to work for me for quite a while, I noticed the problem was back last night. It may have cleared up on its own at the same time I was trying the OTA terminating resistor and the attenuators. I hadn't noticed it for so long since I'd switched to an OTA antenna and have been recording everything on local HD stations from that.
> 
> At this point, I'd suggest that anyone with Fios use an OTA antenna. I can understand Tivo not wanting to create specialized code for every cable provider, and it does seem like this problem affects Fios users almost exclusively.
> 
> Also, I will say that the S3 has an extremely good OTA tuner. I'm 35-40 miles away from the HD towers in Dallas. I can get every single local HD station using a home-made antenna formed by stripping the shielding off of about 3.5 feet of coax cable, where the stripped cable is mounted horizontally in an interior closet in my house. I used an amplifier to help improve the reception. The signal strength shown by the S3 is as low as 68-69 on some days, but the programs recorded by the S3 are still perfect. It is also able to receive both VHF and UHF stations.


FWIW, since I made my initial post, I've attenuated my signal down to about 90 on the Tivo signal strength meter and have not had any problems. Of course, I'm in a different market than you folks.


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## TexasAg

Ron Tobin said:


> FWIW, since I made my initial post, I've attenuated my signal down to about 90 on the Tivo signal strength meter and have not had any problems. Of course, I'm in a different market than you folks.


Then it could be I didn't attenuate it enough. I only used 9db and got it down to around 94 or 95. Still, it works for me now, so I won't go messing with it.


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## Ilene

Fios Plano Tx
Glad it's not just me. I was recording Idol in HD and 45 minutes into the show began watching. OMG! Pixelation/audio non existent. I went to the cableCARD screens and noticed that both cards were Missing_Program_Rekey etc. Switched over to non-HD Idol and watched the rest of the show. 

I received 8.1 last night, which causes the S3 to restart. Went back to the cableCARD screens and card #1 conditional access screen looks great,  for card #2. HD-Locals work on card#1, but pixelates on card#2. 

I have had recurrent problems with card slot #2. Not sure if this coincides with the 2 update packages. 
I have called TiVo about this many times, but because either a new card clears it up, or something does, I cannot get TiVo to replace my unit. He said/she said. I am well out of my 30 days/90 days so I think I am stuck. 

I am going to ask Verizon to rehit card#2 to see if it will enable and clear it up. If it doesn't, then I might need to talk to you, TexasAg, about OTA and how it works in conjunction with Fios.


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## globalreset

We should all have a meetup in plano! This is a pretty aggravating problem.

Ilene, can you explain what you mean about the conditional access screen looking great? I've been checking all those screens under the cablecard configuration menu and they don't have much meaning for me. Also, I don't know how I can tell for certain if it's one card or the other (both seem wonky to me as I switched between tuners while watching live HD locals), but I did notice that when I use the signal strength menu option, I do see an occasional message: "Lost signal on Tuner Two" (or something similar)... It never said Tuner One.

I got 8.1 last night as well, after I spent a couple of hours trying to debug the issue. I was really hoping 8.1 would solve all my problems... But I saw no change in the pixelization behavior.

When I bought my house, I took down an OTA antenna because I was never going to use it... Looks like I might need to put it back up. I hate giving up though... It's depressing.


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## globalreset

Of course I see the problem consistently for all hours of the night last night and first thing in the morning before work... but when I get home from work, it's cleared up.

We're at Verizon and TiVo's mercy on this one. Must really look into the OTA option this weekend.


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## PlanoHD

I have a TIVO S3 and Verizon FIOS in Plano, TX. My cablecards have been working fine since November 2006 with occasional pixelation that always cleared up on its own but it was not a big deal. 

The pixelation became a constant problem this week on Monday, 2/19 or Tuesday, 2/20 on my local HD channels only (801 -806). I called Verizon several times during the week and the standard thing for them to do was to reset the cablecards which seemed to work once but not the following times that I called. They eventually decided that a technican should come out to the house. 

The Verizon technicans came by today (Saturday, 2/24) and spent a few hours trying to find the problem. They replaced splitters and cables, rebooted the ONT, and tested signal strengths. They also replaced one of the cablecards (since they only had one with them) but the pixelation continued. They eventually gave up and said that it must be the TIVO. 

I bought the Best Buy extended warranty and was able to exchange it for a new one tonight. I got it all setup but the pixelation problem still exists with the new TIVO S3!! It must be Verizon FIOS or the cablecards but I don't know where to go from here....


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## jhimmel

Contact TiVo and let them know.
They may not be able to help you, but they might add it to the list of issues that need looking into. What's strange is that it worked at one time. Something must have changed.

I have FiOS in the NY area, and do not have that problem - luckily.

Jim H.


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## jbowden

I live in Plano and my PQ is fine. Once in a while (rare) I will take a hit of pixalation but that is it. I suggest you call Tivo and see it they can offer any assistance.


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## acvthree

I live in Carrollton and haven't seen the pixelization you are discussing, however, I get my locals over the air via antenna.

Have you tried an antenna input for your locals? I know that may not be available to you, but I just thought I would mention it.

Al


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## pl1

PlanoHD said:


> ...The pixelation became a constant problem ...


Just curious. If you hit pause for 30 seconds or back up about 30 seconds, does the picture look alright? I have a station (comcast analog) that I can not watch at all live but is almost fine recording or in the buffer. And someone else here in this forum found the same thing to be true for them.


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## evlg

I'm in Plano, TX with FIOS and 8.1 didn't fix anything for me. If anything it seems to have gotten worse.

This is the most frustrating issue imaginable. The whole point of S3 TiVo is HD recording, and my HD locals are almost always broken with the pixelation issue.

What am I supposed to do at this point?


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## PlanoHD

Here are the responses to some of the questions for my last post.

I don't have an HD antenna but I am considering the option. Does anyone have a recommendation?

I tried pausing live tv and then rewinding a few seconds later. The pixelation was recorded also so it doesn't seem to make any difference on my Tivo.

I live in far East Plano. What part of Plano do you live in if you have the local HD pixelation issue?

I tried running a cable from another room to the Tivo H3 in a different room. The pixelation problem still exists. I wanted to rule out that the line in the wall had a problem.

I'm curious if anyone has the local pixelation problem on local HD channels without a Tivo? (i.e. An HD TV with an HD set top box and no Tivo). I can't try this since I only have one HD TV and I'm using the cablecards through the Tivo to tune the HD channels.

I live in far East Plano. What parts of Plano do others live in that have the local HD pixelation issue?


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## globalreset

I've got the sporadic (though very bad and consistent when it happens) pixelation and I'm over near 75 and Spring Creek in Plano. Maybe the attenuators are helping and, like TexasAg hinted at, it's just a matter of getting enough attenuation. Right now, my national HD is tuned at 94 and my local HD is tuned at 92. Without attenuators (and during a no-pixelation time) all channels are pegged at 100 for signal strength. During pixelation, regardless of the attenuators, my signal strength bounces from the mid-70's to upper-80's.


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## Ilene

I am at Parker and Alma in Plano with Verizon Fios. I too have reported in this thread my challenges with pixelation on HD locals via CableCARDS. I have terminators capping anything that was "exposed". 
We all had high hopes for 8.1 and unfortunately it has not only provided no relief, so far I can say it seems to be worse. I have totally given up watching or recording anything on HD Locals (801, 802, 803, 804 - 809). This problem does not seem to affect channels 810 and above. It's frustrating because like the previous poster said, we bought S3s so that we could watch HD. Before I got 8.1, pixelation was sporadically occurring, since 8.1 it hasn't gone away.
TexasAg has recommended trying OTA for locals, but in doing the research, it appears that I will not be able to get FOX in HD. I am not sure that I can set up Season Passes for OTA either. 
So for now, I record in SD. :-(


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## JohnBrowning

I'm near Legacy and Alma. I get almost continuous pixelation on Discovery HD. I get it occasionally on the broadcast HD channels. I saw a few instances late in the NASCAR race on Sunday. Fox seems to be the worst of the broadcast channels for me. I have seen a FEW instances over the past few months of pixelation across all of the broadcast channels, but, not a lot. Was anybody watching the broadcast channels on Saturday afternoon during the high winds? I wonder if the VZ antennas are just being blown off their aimpoints. I was too busy propping my fence back up on Saturday to look at TV!!

I'm now curious to see if the Discovery HD pixelation follows the channel assignment or the programming when the channel re-jiggering occurs on 3/6.


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## TexasAg

Ilene said:


> I am at Parker and Alma in Plano with Verizon Fios. I too have reported in this thread my challenges with pixelation on HD locals via CableCARDS. I have terminators capping anything that was "exposed".
> We all had high hopes for 8.1 and unfortunately it has not only provided no relief, so far I can say it seems to be worse. I have totally given up watching or recording anything on HD Locals (801, 802, 803, 804 - 809). This problem does not seem to affect channels 810 and above. It's frustrating because like the previous poster said, we bought S3s so that we could watch HD. Before I got 8.1, pixelation was sporadically occurring, since 8.1 it hasn't gone away.
> TexasAg has recommended trying OTA for locals, but in doing the research, it appears that I will not be able to get FOX in HD. I am not sure that I can set up Season Passes for OTA either.
> So for now, I record in SD. :-(


Ilene, you are not too far from me in Plano, and I can get Fox just fine. NBC and ABC have the lowest signal strength, but the S3 still handles signal strengths as low as high 60s just fine. You can also do season passes for OTA. But, you'd need to rerun guided setup to tell the S3 that you use both cable and OTA antenna, and you'd need to redo your season passes to the OTA stations (there isn't a way to transfer a season pass from one station to another).


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## kas25

I am in NJ and would like to get the S3 but it sounds like I may have just as many issues as the Motorola 6416? Is this fair to say or are these obscure channels that are having issues?


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## Greeble

kas25 said:


> I am in NJ and would like to get the S3 but it sounds like I may have just as many issues as the Motorola 6416? Is this fair to say or are these obscure channels that are having issues?


I'm in Piscataway NJ and have never had pixelation problems with the S3 on FIOS. (freehold) The only problem I have is the common fastforward skipping problem, which is currently being looked at by a TIVO engineer.


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## kas25

Greeble said:


> I'm in Piscataway NJ and have never had pixelation problems with the S3 on FIOS. (freehold) The only problem I have is the common fastforward skipping problem, which is currently being looked at by a TIVO engineer.


Thanks. What about having no audio on certain channels. How long does it take to get cablecards from Verizon and can I send the S3 back within 30 days?


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## Greeble

kas25 said:


> Thanks. What about having no audio on certain channels.


Never had any audio issues other than the guide skip that has been fixed in 8.1. However I don't have a fancy audio setup, I just use stereo.


kas25 said:


> How long does it take to get cablecards from Verizon


I got the cards when I had FIOS installed so I don't know, but since card installation is a lot quicker than a new FIOS installation I imagine it would be pretty quick.


kas25 said:


> can I send the S3 back within 30 days?


I dunno, maybe someone else can answer that one for you.


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## wmcbrine

As of today (if not earlier), CNN Headline News (now on 81) is working for me. (And I see in the diagnostics that its video and PCR pids now match.) My only remaining works-on-Fios-STB-but-not-on-the-S3 channel is 313, GolTV, which has audio but no picture.


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## JonInVA

Greetings all,

FIOS TV customer since November '06, just purchased my S3 and had my CableCARD install this afternoon. The install seems to have gone well save for one glitch: I'm receiving HD locals (801-808) but not HD nationals (825 and above). Black screen and no audio on these channels (TNT, ESPN, etc).

Has anybody else had this problem? The two (two!) Verizon installers that came out seemed to know their stuff, and claimed to have done successful S3 CableCARD installs before. They were absolutely stumped by this problem, and after several attempted re-activations they suggested I call the Verizon Fiber Solutions Center tech support line and request to have HD removed from my account, and added back.

I called the FSC and they were just as perplexed, but they said they'd try it. FSC told me it would take a while (they'd have to coordinate with another group, apparently), so they are going to call me back when they're done.

Thoughts? Words of encouragement? Predictions of doom and gloom?

Oh, and FWIW one HD local I have broadcasting HD content at the moment (my local PBS affiliate) looks pixellated.  I'll worry about that problem when I can see all of my HD channels.


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## TexasAg

JonInVA, call Verizion and tell them that you are not getting these channels. Chances are, the techs or the office folks forgot to authorize the cards to get those channels. They can do it remotely, and it should work.

I had the same problem on my install.

Also, my local HD channels pixelate on one tuner and not the other (but the tuner that pixelates switches). It's looks like a problem mainly with Fios users. If you've got an antenna (I just use a stripped coax cable), you won't have to worry.


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## JonInVA

Thanks TexasAg - call placed, problem described, ticket opened, and they're going to get back to me today. I'll give them a few hours and then if they haven't called back, I will. I'll post again when I've got something to report.


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## ashu

When (If?) I get FiOS here in Ashburn myself, I plan to get a 6412 or plain-jane HD box from them too, in addition to the 2 CableCards, at least temporarily, so I can diagnose such issues and check whether it's an account authorization issue, or something CableCard/S3 related.

Jon, would you please PM me a more specific location/intersection/address (whatever you're comfortable with) please? I'm trying to figure out VZ's cryptic/pseudo-random FiOS rollout in Loudoun county


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## JonInVA

After two phone calls, the Fiber Solutions Center (aka FIOS tech support, 1-888-553-1555) confirmed what the field installer had suspected... "HD content" was somehow not included on the order for my two new CableCARDs - despite the fact that I've had it for 3 months on the Moto 6416 that my S3 is replacing. It was therefore not provisioned for the cards, explaining my missing HD National channels.

Unfortunately, the FSC guys couldn't reach any Encore Video reps to enable HD content for the two cards. I found it a bit surprising that the FSC couldn't make the change themselves, but the FSC rep explained that tech support personnel are not allowed access to the provisioning systems. I suspect Sarbanes-Oxley is at work there, given experiences I've had at my own job, so I could relate.

Anyway, they've noted everything in my support ticket and they want me to call back tomorrow so that they can try again to reach an Encore Video rep. The FSC reps were very apologetic and even frustrated themselves about not being able to fix the problem - but I understand that these things happen. Hopefully by this time tomorrow I'll be able to report success.


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## Infohiker

I have series 3 and I am using 2 Verizon Cable cards. The installation was a lot more difficult than the original install with the VZ HDDVR . The techs were not familiar with the S3, and dispatch did not have the order set up correctly. 
If you are going to order cable cards, be really specific with the dispatch. Our dispatcher decided that all we were doing was removing the DVR and replacing with a regular VZ STB. 
Our techs came out, and had cable cards with them. However, VZ allows only one change to a work order a visit. 2 cable cards = 2 changes, so there was a lot of discussion between tech and HQ about this. Long story short, they did it and got it running ok. 
OK means that we have some pixilization that we did not have before. Techs spent hours trying to rewire, etc. Eventually they have decided that it is a problem on the lines (one not preexisting when we were using the propietary DVR) and so they are doing another visti tommorow. 
Away from the mildly annoying pixelization (on only a few channels), everything is running fine. Seems hard to beleive, but the resolution seems even better than it was with the VZ HDDVR. which was better than the old DTV HD. So right now, I am thinking that if they fix the pixelization issues, I am going to have the best possible setup I have ever seen. I cannot think of anything else I can do to improve the setup I have. Scary. I have been chasing TV nirvana for years, and I think I am almost there. 
Now if only the networks would only provide quality programming.


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## JonInVA

The saga continues. I called FSC back shortly after noon today, and as I described the situation to the rep I got he quickly came to the conclusion that this was "definitely" a billing problem. He didn't even open up the support ticket that I told him had all of the information in it from last night. He just blindly transfered me to Encore Center, and the woman I got there started questioning whether or not it was even possible to receive HD channels on CableCARDs. No lie.

She finally called FSC back, had somebody take a look at my support ticket, and after about 20 minutes on hold while they discussed the problem she tells me:

"Well sir, it seems that the installer was correct. You've had HD Content all along, it was on the order for your CableCARDS, but FSC is showing that it was never actually enabled on the cards. Everything looks fine in the billing system - FSC had to actually run diagnostics on your cards to confirm that the appropriate code had not been activated. HD Content must have dropped off of your order. I apologize for the confusion and the inconvenience."

Which matched the gist of what they were telling me last night. Now here's the real kicker... nobody in the office this weekend seems to be able to fix this. Encore took a contact number from me and said that somebody would be able to correct the issue within the next 24-48 hours. They'd call me back when it's fixed.

I'm getting the impression that FSC and Encore had to escalate my ticket, and the Tier Two video guys don't have to work weekends.


----------



## Ron Tobin

Infohiker said:


> I have series 3 and I am using 2 Verizon Cable cards. The installation was a lot more difficult than the original install with the VZ HDDVR . The techs were not familiar with the S3, and dispatch did not have the order set up correctly.
> If you are going to order cable cards, be really specific with the dispatch. Our dispatcher decided that all we were doing was removing the DVR and replacing with a regular VZ STB.
> Our techs came out, and had cable cards with them. However, VZ allows only one change to a work order a visit. 2 cable cards = 2 changes, so there was a lot of discussion between tech and HQ about this. Long story short, they did it and got it running ok.
> OK means that we have some pixilization that we did not have before. Techs spent hours trying to rewire, etc. Eventually they have decided that it is a problem on the lines (one not preexisting when we were using the propietary DVR) and so they are doing another visti tommorow.
> Away from the mildly annoying pixelization (on only a few channels), everything is running fine. Seems hard to beleive, but the resolution seems even better than it was with the VZ HDDVR. which was better than the old DTV HD. So right now, I am thinking that if they fix the pixelization issues, I am going to have the best possible setup I have ever seen. I cannot think of anything else I can do to improve the setup I have. Scary. I have been chasing TV nirvana for years, and I think I am almost there.
> Now if only the networks would only provide quality programming.


I recently got 2 VZ cable cards for my S3. I found that I was getting sporadic pixelization that wasn't seen on my other HD Verizon box. While Verizon doesn't officially support the Tivo, their tech support suggested that I attenuate the signal, which was reading 100 on the Tivo cable strength meter. I inserted a 6db attenuator, which brought it down to 90, and I haven't had a problem since.


----------



## wmcbrine

JonInVA said:


> "HD content" was somehow not included on the order for my two new CableCARDs


The crazy thing about all this is that Verizon doesn't charge separately for HD. So why is it a separate item in their provisioning?

Even Verizon's standard-def set-top-box can tune in the HD channels and play the audio.


----------



## ATB

wmcbrine said:


> The crazy thing about all this is that Verizon doesn't charge separately for HD. So why is it a separate item in their provisioning?
> 
> Even Verizon's standard-def set-top-box can tune in the HD channels and play the audio.


I had the same problem when my FIOS TV was 1st installed with the Verizon Motorola box. They only enabled 1/2 of my HD stations. Verizon has amazing picture qualiy vs. DTV, but dealing with their people is awful.


----------



## ATB

kas25 said:


> How long does it take to get cablecards from Verizon?


These days in NJ, it seems to take 2-4 weeks to get an apt for anything, including getting a CC install. That is if the installer even bothers to show up when they are supposed to. Everything is working for me now, but I was close to giving up on these jokers after all the time I spend with clueless people on the phone. Their national folks seem okay, but once you have to be transfered to their NJ office (when it is open) everything goes bad. Must be staffed by a bunch of monkies.


----------



## JonInVA

Around 6pm EST Sunday night I checked on my National HD channels... and I'm happy to report that I'm now receiving everything as expected. Somebody at Verizon must have worked on my support ticket Sunday afternoon, as I've yet to receive the "follow-up" phone call.

My installation metrics:

Requested CableCARD install: Fri, Feb 23rd
Appointment window granted: Fri, Mar 2nd between 1-5pm
Installers arrived: Fri, Mar 2nd at 1:30pm
Installers departed: Fri, Mar 2nd at 2:30pm

It took another two phone calls to the Fiber Solutions Center, one to the Encore Center, and roughly 48 more hours before I started receiving all of my HD channels.

You can now consider me a pretty happy Verizon FIOS customer / TiVo S3 owner. On my HD channels I see a lot of 100% signal strength, so if I notice any significant pixellation I'll try the signal attenuation fix.

My only word of caution? At no time did I ever mention TiVo during any of my tech support calls. I simply said "I just had two CableCARDs installed and I'm not receiving all of my HD channels on either card." There's really no reason for them to know that they're both plugged into a TiVo S3.


----------



## kas25

I just got the S3 and the cablecards arrive Friday. My question is if I want to keep a basic Verizon box for on-demand, I will need two lines. Is there a simple splitter I can use to split the current line into two or does Verizon have to run another line?


----------



## JonInVA

kas25 said:


> Is there a simple splitter I can use to split the current line into two or does Verizon have to run another line?


Absolutely. I've actually got a central COAX distribution point in my house, which acts as my primary splitter from the FIOS ONT. A patch the distribution point feeds my S3, while a second patch feeds my S2 DT.

For the S2 DT, I've got a second splitter after the coax comes out of the wall... one side feeds the S2 DT directly (for analog basic), the other feeds a standard Motorola FIOS STB which the S2 commands via serial cable (for digital channels). That way the S2 DT can record two programs at once... so long as one of the programs is coming from analog basic.

Even with those two splits, signal strength is great. You just need to make sure the splitter is rated for a "wideband" digital cable signal... there are probably a bunch of posts around recommending a few good ones.


----------



## kas25

JonInVA said:


> Absolutely. I've actually got a central COAX distribution point in my house, which acts as my primary splitter from the FIOS ONT. A patch the distribution point feeds my S3, while a second patch feeds my S2 DT.
> 
> For the S2 DT, I've got a second splitter after the coax comes out of the wall... one side feeds the S2 DT directly (for analog basic), the other feeds a standard Motorola FIOS STB which the S2 commands via serial cable (for digital channels). That way the S2 DT can record two programs at once... so long as one of the programs is coming from analog basic.
> 
> Even with those two splits, signal strength is great.


Good news. Just a simple coax splitter will do?


----------



## Diesel

Anyone else seen an issue like this?

Installer came out today and installed both cards. It was his first cablecard job so he wasn't sure what to do initially. After fiddling around and finally getting the correct serial numbers input, CableCard 2 came up fine, but CableCard 1 either didn't show a picture or was just pixel static. The wierd thing was that it could still pull the channel information...just not the picture.

After a few tries of de-activating and re-activating, he was out of ideas. I suggested swapping card 1 and card 2. After doing this, neither card came up and it made us both nervous so we switched them back to their original slots. Well now....CableCard 1 and 2 were BOTH up.

Everything was great, we figured maybe it just wasn't fully seated or something and so he packed up and left. 10 minutes later, CableCard 1 was malfunctioning again. Not sure what else to try before I call them and bring a tech out again.

I'm nervous too that in the meantime, my scheduled recordings are going to default to Card 1 and just record garbage.

Any ideas are appreciated.

Thanks!


----------



## hmelman

I'm in Newton, MA. I've had a Series 3 on Comcast for 4 months working fine. Yesterday, I switched to FIOS TV. They brought two cable cards and both installed fine. I tested a couple of channels (a low one, a digital cable one and an HD one) and all looked fine. I went through Guided Setup and all was well. I was impressed that my season passes were remembered and remapped to the new channel numbers (I thought I'd have to reenter them).

Then I went to CNN (80) and had some bad pixelation. CNNH (81) had the same problem. I went throught all the channels and found 8 that gave me problems. The other six were: 51 TNT, 52 TBS, 60 ESPN, 64 ESPN2, 163 COURT, 227 TOON. Checking the TiVo diagnostics they were all at frequency 447,000kHz and had difficulty locking in the channel. Signal Strength bounced around. All other channels are fine. I can view these problem channels on the other TV with a Verizon (motorola) set-top box just fine. I saw this thread and tried a 6db inline attenuator (from a local electronics store for $4, neither Radio Shack nor Home Depot carries them) and no help. I'm running 8.1.1.

I called FIOS, they tested the line remotely and saw no problems. They reinitialed the cable card, no change. He took the list of failing channels from me. I talked to FIOS several times last night and different FIOS people said different things about TiVo. One said they didn't support it, I said it was a cable card device it should be no problem. Their solution was to schedule someone to come out and check the line. I decided to delay that (I've been through 2 full days of FIOS installation).

I called TiVo. His view was that since the Series 3 previously worked with comcast it must be a FIOS problem. I said that since the Verizon set-top box is working fine Verizon will say it's the TiVo's fault. He got fairly defensive that he didn't say it was definately a Verizon problem. I tried to suggest that it could be a grey area in the spec and just be a technical issue between the two vendors and asked him to check a problem database to see if there was any info but I don't think he did. All in all, he wasn't helpful.

I called FIOS and scheduled a service call for the next day. I think the pixelation got worse as the evening progressed. This morning I turned on the problem channels and they work no problem. I've tried different problem channels on different tuners and they work. I've had the verizon set-top box connected to the other TV on one of the problem channels and not, and no difference.

I suspect that there was a problem with their transmission at that frequency that the TiVo is susceptable to. The FIOS tech guy that took the channel numbers probably had someone look into it and they corrected something. The frustrating part (as a software engineer) is there's no way to know. Does anyone know enough about this to know what could or could not affect a particular frequency? Could it be the cables? The FIOS install used all their own splitters. Could be it the cable card (or would that affect all channels similarly)? Is it likely the signal generated at the ONT or from the FIOS area distribution?


----------



## flipit

hmelman said:


> I'm in Newton, MA...
> 
> Then I went to CNN (80) and had some bad pixelation. ...I can view these problem channels on the other TV with a Verizon (motorola) set-top box just fine.


I'm in Richmond, VA, and have had FiOS since early January. Last night, for the first time ever, I had bad pixelation on most of the HD channels. A signal test showed that the signal strength was cycling pretty rapidly between 0 and 90+. No problem with the signal through the FiOS STB.

Didn't check this morning before work, but I'm hoping it was a temporary transmission problem.


----------



## JonInVA

hmelman said:


> I talked to FIOS several times last night and different FIOS people said different things about TiVo. One said they didn't support it, I said it was a cable card device it should be no problem.


The few times I've had to call Verizon to troubleshoot my CableCARDs, I didn't even mention that I had a TiVo. That way I didn't have to listen to any moronic "Hey Bill! I got another guy with a TiVo on hold, do we even officially support those?" I just said "neither one of my two CableCARD are currently receiving channels XYZ." It kept me from wanting to strangle someone.



hmelman said:


> I suspect that there was a problem with their transmission at that frequency that the TiVo is susceptable to. The FIOS tech guy that took the channel numbers probably had someone look into it and they corrected something. The frustrating part (as a software engineer) is there's no way to know. Does anyone know enough about this to know what could or could not affect a particular frequency? Could it be the cables? The FIOS install used all their own splitters. Could be it the cable card (or would that affect all channels similarly)? Is it likely the signal generated at the ONT or from the FIOS area distribution?


My original FIOS installer explained to me that the signal being sent over the COAX is physically generated by the ONT. This is why FIOS TV customers usually have very strong digital cable signals. Sounds to me like your problem might be a bad splitter, too many splits, a bad run of COAX, or a loose connection. My S3, for example, is only one split downstream from the ONT feed, and my signal strength is usually between 98-100 on every digital channel.


----------



## TexasAg

You know, I think all of the channels I had problems with pixelization were also in the 400MHz range. Not sure if they were all at the 447MHz range.


----------



## hmelman

After a little bit having the TiVo tuned to 80 the pixelation is back. It seems to be time related. If it hasn't been on the channel for a while it can tune it, but after a while it has problems. Perhaps a buffering issue? 

There are two splits to the TiVo. Both splitters installed by Verizon. Previously under comcast there was only one splitter. I can try without the splitter but as it goes to the router, that won't be a viable longterm solution for me.


----------



## Greeble

I now have horrible pixelation on 3 of my HD channels. Everything was working fine up until about a week ago. (Recorded an HD movie off of one of the now problematic channels) The channels are UHD, DHD and WealthHD.

If I check the cable card status. It keeps losing lock and the signal varies wildly. (Down to the 70s up to 90s, always changing) Where as the other channels seem to be all consistent and are in the high 90s. It sounds like I have a different problem than the typical signal strength too high deal some FIOS folks are getting. 

EDIT: Frequency is 747000khz


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## hmelman

If you tune to a problematic channel and go into Messages & Settings -> Account & System Information ->Diagnostics you'll see 4 blocks of information. The first two are for the channels tuned and the 2nd two are for the cable cards. If you look in the first two, the 3rd item is Channel, find the block for the problematic channel. Then the 4th item in the block is Frequency. What frequency do you see? Is it the same for all the problematic channels? Is it 447000 KHz?


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## hmelman

I have a splitter before the TiVo that wasn't there when I used comcast. I removed it and the pixelation was a little better but not perfect. One tuner did ok (94-100 with lock), the other had more problems (55-100, intermittant lock). I also noticed that the coax cable from the splitter is my original and the others are Verizon's coax, I wonder if they might be better at 447MHz? My guess is that the signal has to be boosted at the ONT and I'll have to Verizon in to do this.


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## acvthree

The signal coming out of the ONT is usually very hot. There have been many people, including me, that Verizon put splitters on just to attenuate the signal.

It's a good idea to have Verizon come out. The problem could be something as simple as a bad cable connector or a bad splitter. They can check the signals at several locations and figure this out.

Al


----------



## quantrill

hmelman said:


> Then I went to CNN (80) and had some bad pixelation. CNNH (81) had the same problem. I went throught all the channels and found 8 that gave me problems. The other six were: 51 TNT, 52 TBS, 60 ESPN, 64 ESPN2, 163 COURT, 227 TOON. Checking the TiVo diagnostics they were all at frequency 447,000kHz and had difficulty locking in the channel. Signal Strength bounced around. All other channels are fine. I can view these problem channels on the other TV with a Verizon (motorola) set-top box just fine. I saw this thread and tried a 6db inline attenuator (from a local electronics store for $4, neither Radio Shack nor Home Depot carries them) and no help. I'm running 8.1.1.


I just had my installation on 3/6. It was a fairly painless process considering that the tech had never done cablecards NOR a Series 3. One of the cards was DOA, he returned the next evening after I got home from work with a new cablecard and all seemed well. Yesterday I set up a Season Pass for PTI on ESPN (60) and noticed pixelation on the recording. I checked the signal strength and saw that it was fluxuating between 95-97 (all other channels are solid 100) AND displayed something close to the message "(no signal on tuner 1)". This was a surprise to me so I played around a bit forcing it to use tuner one, and I indeed had no signal. I then proceeded to to a signal test on every channel (this took awhile) and found the exact same channel list was affected: TNT (51) TBS (52) ESPN (60) ESPN2 (61) CNN (80) CNNH (81) COURT (163) TOON (227). Some of the stations map to two channels (part of the realignment I assume) and both displayed the same problem.

I agree that this appears to be an issue with the S3 handling a certain freq as transmitted by Verizon. I live in Burtonsville, MD so this does not appear to be a localized phenomena. Perhaps as more of us call in with the same channel list, a lightbulb will go off above a Verizon engineer's head and we'll get resolution.


----------



## PlanoHD

I live in Plano, TX and checked my Verizon FIOS local HD channels last night. It looks like they "miracoulsy" started working on my TIVO S3. They are still working this morning so I have hope that the problem has been fixed. Is the problem fixed for anyone else in the area?


----------



## Ilene

Maybe we should start our own thread so that we can keep up with North Dallas Fios. 
I am Parker and Alma and was seeing extreme pixelation at the same time as you were. I looked at all of the diagnositic screens before calling Fios to reinitialize my cards as neither were communicating with the CP provider. Afterwards, the problem still existed. My TiVo also froze 2x during this timeframe, so I had to reboot twice. I find this happens when the cableCards are "not working".

A couple of days later, it mysteriously cleared up at the same time it cleared up for you. So far so good. But I have seen this before, where they are working and for some unexplained reason, the pixlation returns. I am no longer recording anything I care about in HD. The digital picture is almost as good - colors are just a wee bit less vivid, but at least it is clear.
It is too frustrating to miss shows and have to watch them via the broadcast companies web site on my computer.



PlanoHD said:


> I live in Plano, TX and checked my Verizon FIOS local HD channels last night. It looks like they "miracoulsy" started working on my TIVO S3. They are still working this morning so I have hope that the problem has been fixed. Is the problem fixed for anyone else in the area?


----------



## acvthree

Are you only seeing this in Fios locals? Do you see this on any other channels?

I'm in Carrollton and I haven't seen any of the pixelization you are talking about, but I get my local HD OTA.

Al


----------



## Ilene

acvthree said:


> Are you only seeing this in Fios locals? Do you see this on any other channels?
> 
> I'm in Carrollton and I haven't seen any of the pixelization you are talking about, but I get my local HD OTA.
> 
> Al


Yes, I have had consistent pixelation on local HD via Fios  - channels 801 - 809. The non-locals used to begin with 810 and above before the channel line up change on 3/6, but I don't remember where they begin now, but non-locals for me have been pretty consistently clear. We watch CNN 519 a lot and there are times when all of the CNNs pixelate as well.
The pixelation (and corresponding audio drop out) comes unexpectantly after many days of working perfectly. It clears up, usually, several days later. Because I cannot find rhyme, reason or pattern, I no longer record in HD (I cannot tell you how many House, 24, American Idol, NCIS and the Unit I have had to delete).

Local HD OTA is obviously not Fios, so while I appreciate your comments that you are not seeing pixelation, it is really irrelevant to a discussion that HD locals via Fios pixelates. If you are watching OTA, you are not watching through Fios.


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## PlanoHD

I spoke too soon. The pixelation problem is back on channels 801 - 809 (local HD channels). I too have to stop recording on HD channels.


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## RealityCheck

I think it's time the FCC mandates "Clear QAM" extended basic. For people who don't sub. to premium services, it would solve so many problems (goodbye CableCARDs!).


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## Ilene

Saw your post and checked out my 2 tuners and cableCard screens, everything perfect until about 30 minutes ago when I lost cableCard 2 (missing program_rekey) so that tuner is pixelating. CableCard1 is still enabled with no errors.



PlanoHD said:


> I spoke too soon. The pixelation problem is back on channels 801 - 809 (local HD channels). I too have to stop recording on HD channels.


----------



## hmelman

At least since Sunday my service (8 non-HD channels at 447MHz) has cleared up with no pixelation. No one was here to do any work and I did nothing myself, it just cleared up on it's own. I'm getting 100% signal with lock on both cards. I had told FIOS which channels I had problems with and assume they did something about it but I don't that that's the case.


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## quantrill

Same here, there was one re-occurrence late last week but since then (as far as I can tell) I've had no further issues with any of the channels on that frequency.


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## captain_video

I got my FIOS service activated several weeks ago but I sent my S3 Tivo out to get the PROM modded right afterwards so I've actually been without FIOS on my HDTV until yesterday. I had recorded a few shows right after I activated the service but didn't get a chance to watch them until last night. I wasn't prepared for what I saw. I had a couple of recordings of Battlestar Galactica and the Dresden Files that I made from the SciFi channel the day they installed my FIOS setup. With DirecTV, both of these shows always looked grainy and very soft, almost like trying to watch a VHS tape on a big screen. With FIOS, both of these shows looked much sharper and approached DVD quality. It was like seeing them both for the first time. 

I knew that FIOS would provide more detail in my HD programming but I never expected it to improve the standard definition channels to such a degree. I was originally planning on having FIOS on a trial basis to see if I liked it better than DirecTV. I think now I'll be with FIOS for the long haul. DirecTV will have to show me they have a better product than FIOS when they switch over to mpeg4 and add their new HD lineup. The thing is, FIOS will also be adding more HD channels so it looks like it's going to be a neck and neck race between them. Right now my money's on FIOS.


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## Gregor

What sort of PROM modification did you get?


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## ashu

Oooh - more disallowed subtle TiVo hacking talk. This should get interesting 

As for the HD improvement, you were comparing uncompressed HD to a really awful source (DirectTV's HD Lite). Ther differece is supposed to be massive


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## musicforme

Thought I would chime in here that I've had very few pixellation issues on HD channels over in Grapevine.


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## captain_video

> Oooh - more disallowed subtle TiVo hacking talk. This should get interesting


And just what do you consider to be "disallowed talk" with regards to a PROM mod? Modifying your S3 Tivo PROM is only part of the equation towards getting your S3 hacked. It's no different that what R10 and 540xx Tivo owners discuss in other forums here all the time with no repercussions. There's nothing involved that allows you to steal service or circumvent the Tivo fees. It just allows you to install some of the same hacks enjoyed by other Tivo owners that have "Zippered" their Tivos or hacked them in a similar manner from scratch. There is nothing going on that violates any forum rules.


----------



## flipit

Greeble said:


> I now have horrible pixelation on 3 of my HD channels. Everything was working fine up until about a week ago. (Recorded an HD movie off of one of the now problematic channels) The channels are UHD, DHD and WealthHD.
> 
> If I check the cable card status. It keeps losing lock and the signal varies wildly. (Down to the 70s up to 90s, always changing) Where as the other channels seem to be all consistent and are in the high 90s. It sounds like I have a different problem than the typical signal strength too high deal some FIOS folks are getting.
> 
> EDIT: Frequency is 747000khz


Greeble:

Have you found a solution? I seems I have the exact same problem on the exact same channels (in Richmond, VA). Like you, this is also a recent development, as I didn't have the problem before.


----------



## bilbo

hmelman said:


> I called TiVo. His view was that...


I always knew people referred to him as the Tivo guy, but thanks for clearing that up!


----------



## captain_video

For those of you that are installing your own splitters in the line you might want to check with Verizon to make sure you're using the right kind, especially if you have any standard boxes that require two-way communication, such as VOD. I had a Monster Cable wideband splitter setup prior to the installers' arrival and they looked at it and said it wouldn't work. I belive the one I had only had one leg that would pass power and the correct type requires that all legs are power pass, but I'm not 100% sure. It turned out that I had a four-way splitter and they needed five outputs so they installed their own. Apparently the coax feed from the ONT goes to the splitter and then out to the wireless router. 

This surprised me since Comcast split out their cable modem signal at the entrance to the house and then ran the 2nd line to the various other TV connections throughout the house using additional splitters. I dropped Comcast cable years ago after DTV started providing my locals so I just had the single cable line going straight to the cable modem.


----------



## Greeble

flipit said:


> Greeble:
> 
> Have you found a solution? I seems I have the exact same problem on the exact same channels (in Richmond, VA). Like you, this is also a recent development, as I didn't have the problem before.


No, still having the same problem with the same 3 channels. I had a truck roll schedualed but had to cancel it because I couldn't be home then. I'm going to try to scheduale another truck on Friday.


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## flipit

Last might, my pixelation problem with UHD, DHD and WealthTV disappeared. At least for the time being, everything appears to be performing great (as it was before about a month ago). Hope this is a permanent fix.


----------



## bareyb

DHD has been bad on my S3 lately as well. Unwatchable. I'll try a test and record some shows on my Comcast DVR too and make sure it's an S3 issue and not a problem with Comcast. I'll report back later... First major problem I've had with dropouts on the S3 and also just started about a week ago. Makes me wonder if it's not a Comcast problem... Seems odd all our boxes are only messing up on the same channels...


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## Ron Tobin

I have an S3 with VZ cable cards.

I was watching the spring training baseball game on ESPN-HD and it started pixelizing very badly. I went to the diagnositics screen and the signal was jumping between 81 and 89, losing signal lock each time there was a change in the reading, which must have been pixelizing. I have another HD set with a Moto 6200 tuner, and turned on that set. Naturally, the picture was fine, while the S3 w/cable continued to pixelize.

Now where do I begin? Is this a VZ problem with the cable card or a Tivo issue? Any comments would be appreciated, particularly by anyone who has had success identifying the cause.


----------



## stockwatch_1999

Ilene said:


> Yes, I have had consistent pixelation on local HD via Fios  - channels 801 - 809. The non-locals used to begin with 810 and above before the channel line up change on 3/6, but I don't remember where they begin now, but non-locals for me have been pretty consistently clear. We watch CNN 519 a lot and there are times when all of the CNNs pixelate as well.
> The pixelation (and corresponding audio drop out) comes unexpectantly after many days of working perfectly. It clears up, usually, several days later. Because I cannot find rhyme, reason or pattern, I no longer record in HD (I cannot tell you how many House, 24, American Idol, NCIS and the Unit I have had to delete).
> 
> Local HD OTA is obviously not Fios, so while I appreciate your comments that you are not seeing pixelation, it is really irrelevant to a discussion that HD locals via Fios pixelates. If you are watching OTA, you are not watching through Fios.


I can report that Montgomery County, MD seems to have the same local HD pixelation problems (801-809) as the folks down in Texas. Verizon fiber support seems at a loss so if anyone has found the solution to this problem, please post. Otherwise, I am afraid I'm back to Comcast.


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## dochogan

4 visits from Vzn, still no working S3+CC 

I see references in this thread to "the good error message," and other vague hints to assist troubleshooting a bad install; I can't find anything stating what "the good error message" is, or what indicators I should be looking for (to point out to the Vzn guy) to show that we have a problem more specific than "it doesn't work".

Can anyone post some troubleshooting info, please? I'm almost 2 weeks down!

Thanks!


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## Ron Tobin

VZ tech spent four hours at my home today checking signal quality. Every channel is within spec, yet piixelization continues on ESPN, ESPNHD, NFLHD, HDNet and HDNet Movies. If you look at the diagnostics screen you can see the signal jumping all over the place. And those channels happen to be on 717mhz, 723mhz and 735mhz. I even got Tivo support to talk with the VZ guy. Tivo suggested an amp to boost the signals on those channels, but that didn't help.

I'm almost at the point of giving up on Tivo S3/VZ CC compatability. I think the VZ tech went above and beyond. I saw the signal quality readings on his eqt. And this is my second Tivo box, as the first one was replaced by Tivo when I started reporting the problems. And VZ, this AM also changed out the cable cards, to no avail.


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## jtkohl

Do you have an OTA antenna connected too? Try a terminator on the antenna input on the S3?
I've seen some comments in other threads that local broadcasts can interfere with some channels on the cable at the same frequency.
(Anybody know the frequency ranges of UHF OTA broadcasts, by channel?)

UPDATE: Hmm, according to http://www.picomacom.com/specs/pico/APPENDIX.pdf, those frequencies are UHF channels 55, 56, 58.
Any local stations broadcasting on those? (Keep in mind that channel frequency assignments don't match channel numbers anymore.)


----------



## Ron Tobin

jtkohl said:


> Do you have an OTA antenna connected too? Try a terminator on the antenna input on the S3?
> I've seen some comments in other threads that local broadcasts can interfere with some channels on the cable at the same frequency.
> (Anybody know the frequency ranges of UHF OTA broadcasts, by channel?)
> 
> UPDATE: Hmm, according to http://www.picomacom.com/specs/pico/APPENDIX.pdf, those frequencies are UHF channels 55, 56, 58.
> Any local stations broadcasting on those? (Keep in mind that channel frequency assignments don't match channel numbers anymore.)


In my case, I have local digital channels close to those listed above. I believe I have one at 57 and another at 59. And I do have an ASTC antenna attached.

So are you suggesting that I disconnect the OTA antenna and terminating that connection? Certainly, anything is worth a try.


----------



## Joe Q

Like others, I have complained and complained to Directv about their lousy 'HD Lite' to no avail.

Until recently, I did not have a choice but no longer:
Verizon will be at my house on Tuesday, May 22 to install their FIOS TV and then I ditch Directv after being with them for nearly 10 years.

I have a modified HR 10-250 HDTIVO that is on my home network which allows me to do some really useful things with it but after May 22, it will lose its usefullness.

Verizon will be installing their HD DVR which I assume will be the Motorola 6416 and I am trying to figure out why many folks with FIOS get the Series 3 instead of using the Moto box.

If it makes sense, I will get a Series 3 for my FIOS service but when I compare the Moto box to the Series 3, it does NOT make sense to get an S3.

What am I missing here:

1) I can archive via Firewire from the Motorola Box but not with the S3
2) The Moto box costs $13 per month versus $17 for the S3
3) I would have to get 2 cablecards at $6 ($4 card 1+ $2 card 2) per month to be able to use the S3 with FIOS
4) I would have to buy the S3 for a decent chunk of change whereas the Moto box is covered under #2
5) I lose some FIOS features if I use a Series 3 box instead of the Moto box.
6) I don't have to buy an extended warranty because the Moto box is a rental
7) The S3 has a bigger disk and is expandable but since I can use the Firewire to offload shows (like a I do today over Ethernet with my HR 10-250) there is no need to get a bigger disk. That is the reason why I have kept my Hr10-250 with it's standard 250gb DISK

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks


----------



## wmcbrine

Joe Q said:


> I am trying to figure out why many folks with FIOS get the Series 3 instead of using the Moto box.


Well, the general opinion is that it's better. I can't attest to that from my own experience, but I do have a Fios SD STB, which I understand is much the same (apart from the DVR features). Using it makes me glad I have a Tivo S3 for my main set.

My reasons were a) I'd heard bad things about the Fios DVR, and b) I wanted to make things easy for other household members who were used to the DirecTV Tivos. (Changing services is pain enough!)



> _1) I can archive via Firewire from the Motorola Box but not with the S3_


Yes, and that's a major point. I think most of us assumed that we'd have TivoToGo sooner rather than later.



> _2) The Moto box costs $13 per month versus $17 for the S3_


Dunno where you get $17. I pre-paid three years at $8.31 per month. Of course, that doesn't include CableCard fees, nor the upfront price. On the third hand, Fios DVRs are going up to $16.



> _5) I lose some FIOS features if I use a Series 3 box instead of the Moto box._


On the other hand, you lose some Tivo features if you use the Moto box instead of a Series 3. 



> _6) I don't have to buy an extended warranty because the Moto box is a rental_


I didn't have to buy an extended warranty, either.

I notice that Verizon is charging $550 for "non-returned or damaged" DVRs.


----------



## Joe Q

Thanks for the reply. 
The dollar figures are simply rounded off figures I found via a quick search on some websites and not based on a multi year commitment.
I just used these for rough comparisons. 

I am early in my research on the best way to have a DVR for the new TV service so I obviously have more to learn about the Series 3 .

Can you clarify something from your reply:
You are using Verizon's SD DVR,have a Series 3 but are NOT using the Series 3 for your Verizon TV service. Correct?

Why is that?

I do need to look into 'tivotogo' as I am not familiar with that.


----------



## bkdtv

Joe Q said:


> Verizon will be installing their HD DVR which I assume will be the Motorola 6416 and I am trying to figure out why many folks with FIOS get the Series 3 instead of using the Moto box.


The Motorola DVR used by FiOS has greatly improved in stability over the past 12 months. It is no longer "buggy" as it was a year ago, but it still lacks in usability compared to the Series3. My main issue with the FiOS DVR is the storage capacity.

I would be satisfied with the Motorola DVR if it weren't for its 160Gb capacity, with no expansion in sight. In contrast, the Series3 has 250Gb and you can easily add a 750Gb eSATA drive for a little over $200.

Remember that FiOS doesn't re-compress and degrade the quality of its HDTV, and as a result, one-hour of HDTV on FiOS often requires significantly more space than it does on the DirecTV DVR. It's not uncommon for a single, one-hour high-definition recording to consume 5-6% of capacity on the FiOS DVR. Capacity on the FiOS DVR will range from 16-24 hours of HDTV depending on what channels you record.



Joe Q said:


> 7) The S3 has a bigger disk and is expandable but since I can use the Firewire to offload shows (like a I do today over Ethernet with my HR 10-250) there is no need to get a bigger disk. That is the reason why I have kept my Hr10-250 with it's standard 250gb DISK


You can archive recordings from the local networks to a PC using Firewire, as they are marked "copy freely," but not much else. The cable channels on FiOS are flagged as 5C "copy one generation" which means you can't record them using Firewire unless you have an authorized 5C device, like a JVC HDTV D-VHS recorder. PCs are not authorized 5C devices. The Tivo Series3 has no problem recording any FiOS channels.

As noted above, FiOS is increasing the cost of their Motorola DVR from $12.99 to $15.99/mo for customers that add it after July 13. If you add the DVR before July 13, you are "grandfathered" at the $12.99/mo price.


----------



## wmcbrine

Joe Q said:


> Can you clarify something from your reply:
> You are using Verizon's SD DVR, have a Series 3 but are NOT using the Series 3 for your Verizon TV service. Correct?


Not at all. I'm using Verizon's SD STB (NOT DVR) for one TV. (Verizon doesn't offer an SD DVR, BTW; all their DVRs are HD.) It's not a DVR, but operates the same as the DVR otherwise, or so I understand -- same menus, same guide, etc. And yes, I'm also using my Series 3's with Fios, on other TVs.


----------



## String

I have had both boxes. I found that the SD using the moto box on an HD TV was unwatchable. I think HD differences were negligible.


----------



## Ziggy86

Does the Verizon DVR allow you to watch one program and record another at the same time? How does it compare to the Tivo series 2 I have now. Just wondering if it is worth the cost to upgrade to the series 3 or just get verizons unit?


----------



## bkdtv

Ziggy86 said:


> Does the Verizon DVR allow you to watch one program and record another at the same time?


Yes, it does. The FiOS DVR will also let you simultaneously record two different HD or SD channels while you watch a third, pre-recorded program.

The FiOS DVR offers the same basic functionality as the Tivo Series3, but with an an inferior interface and some missing features (no wishlists, no dual buffered tuners, etc). Of course, it also has 35% less storage capacity and doesn't support eSATA hard drives for expansion.


----------



## Ziggy86

the storage feature is what I will miss the most but I heard you can back up the recordings , is that correct? If so how do you back up a program


----------



## bkdtv

Ziggy86 said:


> the storage feature is what I will miss the most but I heard you can back up the recordings , is that correct? If so how do you back up a program


You can save recordings from the *locals* to a PC for viewing (you can't copy them back to the Tivo). It's somewhat complicated.

You connect the FiOS Motorola DVR to a PC via Firewire then use a program like CAP DVHS to capture the recording in realtime while it plays. Once again, this only works on local channels.


----------



## cipsi

Hey everyone,

I actually WAS considering switching from the Motto DVR to the S3 but have decided to pass after reading all this. I have had FIOS for over 6 months now and to get the Motto DVR to work at my place I had 7 different service guys at the house and they installed 2 different fiber lines, and 3 different DVR's to the house. The signal quality is still not where it should be, but I am getting all the channels with little problems. I really am afraid that the cablecard/S3 interaction would get me NO HD channels and I don't want to take another week off of work as Verizon tries to suss it all out! My wife hates FIOS TV and wishes I would have never switched from DTV. We had DTV for over 12 years with 3 modded S2 tivos( anyone interested in buying them?) I am just not really willing to invest a bunch of time and $ for the off chance the S3 will work for us. And furthermore, I don't really want another Verizon Tech in my house! I am going to wait until all this settles down before I make any changes. Who knows, maybe Verizon will strike a deal with Tivo like DTV and they will make a special unit just for them.

Just for everyones information, here is what I like and dislike about the Motto DVR.

Motto Likes:

VOD
PPV
Wigets are cool, although not quite useful yet.
Cost ($600 for the s3 + monthly $9 = $26/month verses $16/month motto)

Dislike:

-The DVR functionality sucks (TIVO is 10000x better)
-You cant use the DVR(play a recorded show) if the Fios service is down!
-Stop/jump/fast forward/rewind stop working occasionally.
-The frickin 30 jump cues up, so if the dvr does not respond and you hit the button repeatedly the darn thing catches up fast forwarding beyond where you want to be.
-Misses shows my Tivo used to catch, like a season pass to Survivor will also record the last reunion show, the Motto did not! 
-Conflict resolution does not work right if you have 2 shows recording.
-You cant record 2 shows and watch VOD - this should work like a recorded show.


----------



## Joe Q

bkdtv said:


> You can save recordings from the *locals* to a PC for viewing (you can't copy them back to the Tivo). It's somewhat complicated.
> 
> You connect the FiOS Motorola DVR to a PC via Firewire then use a program like CAP DVHS to capture the recording in realtime while it plays. Once again, this only works on local channels.


I have been with Fios for only 2 weeks now but I am home recovering from surgery so I have a lot of time on my hands to mess wih this.

Since the Verizon FIOS signal is so much LESS compressed than what I was used to with Directv and my HDTIVO, that 160 Gbyte disk fills up really fast so I needed a way to offload and delete stuff for later viewing.

I have been doing extensive testing on the Motorola 6416 archiving capabilities.

The statement about locals is not true. It all has to do with whether the 5C flag is set and is dependent upon the area that you are in,apparantly.
More on that later in this post.

So far, I have found 3 ways to archive material from the Motorola 6416.
The first 2 are activley being used by me and the third will be later this week after my JVC from Ebay shows up.

A) DVD Recorder which will record ANYTHING coming out the S-VIDEO connection on the Moto 6416. That includes High Def stuff but that sort of defeats the purpose of high def. No copy protection issues to deal with.

B) CapDVHS from the Motorola 6416 box to a PC over firewire. Channels that have the 5C flag set will get recorded BUT they are encrypted.
There are many ways of playing back TS (transport Stream files) that Capdvhs makes.

C) A 5C compliant D-VHS deck like the Mits 2000/JVC 30K/JVC 40K or the JVC DH5U.
This will let you record and playback anything coming out of the Firewire connectoin on the Moto 6416.
IN theory, you could use a 5C compliant HDTV OTA tuner like the Samsung T165 but I have chosen not to pursue that

Further details:

1) Think of a really simple to use VHS recorder.
I bought a Sony RDRGX355 Upconverting DVD recorder which has an HDMI output.
It is designed to be used with Cable and Satellite STB's as it has an IR Blaster to control Cable and Satellite STB's.

You can setup timer recordings/instant record or Synchro recordings

I use the IR Blaster to have the DVD recorder tune the Verizon FIOS Motorola DVR to the channe/duration you want recorded or merely to start recording at a time when the DVR is scheduled to record.

Synchro recording is supposed to start recording when a signal apears on it's inputs and stop when it disparears. Perfect for using with the DVR but so far, I have not been able to get that to work with the Motorola/Sony combo . I will

I use the reusable DVD+RW disks for the daily 'soaps' that my wife likes and I will offload the Standard Definition programming to one of the many DVD formats that it supports.
You can of course record HD programming but that kind of defeats the purpose.

To record something in the DVR list (The now showing list) ,You start a movie playback from the Motorola's DVR menu and hit record on the DVD recorder. 2 button presses if the movie is an hour, etc.

When the recording is done, you can delete the DVR recording at your leisure to free up disk space and then use the DVD Recoirder to watch the 1080i upconverted DVD.

On SD material, the DVD recordings,even on the SP (2 hour mode) setting, look to me as good as the original. I assume it looks so good is because the Motorola only upconverts SD to 480P yet the DVD recorder upconverts to 720P/1080i

2) Recording via Capdvhs over Firewire
The method lets you record either what you have playing in the DVR list or whatever is showing on the Box at the time.
This is where the 5C business comes in.
If you go to d11 INTERFACE STATUS from the front panel on the DVR you will see both tuners listed. The 5C flag is the CCI flag. If it is NON zero, then this is a copy protected show and the recording you make to the PC will be encrypted data.
If it is 0 then you can play back a perfectly good recording.

I have been compiling a list of 5C encrypted channels in my area and here is the list so far as to what I have done. I have started with my Favorites list and will continue to fill out the spreadsheet.

*http://southriver.web.aplus.net/
Pick the abbreviated version.

Notice that such channels as National Geographic Channel HD s NOT encrypted*

3) If you have a 5C compliant Device such as the JVC 30K D-VHS deck and it has an mpeg2 decoder in it, you can forget about this 5C business and record your shows onto D-VHS.
Depending upon the 5C setting, you may not be able to make copies of the tape which is perfect for us because all we want to do is to unload from the DVR to free up space.


----------



## Gerhard

Well,

I just had my FIOS TV installed.

I got 2 cablecards and two set-top-boxes.

They've been having trouble with the initalization of the equipment on the Verizon TV network here. So it's been slow for the commands to traverse the network...

It appears that they must first send a initalization command to the CC's and the STBs.

Then they need to send another command to all of the units to enable them to recieve the digital channels. "This is called authorization."

The cable guy had no clue what to do with cable cards, but even with the delayed initalization and authorization... one of the two cable cards was working when he left.

Normally I'd be annoyed, but the folks at Verizon seem to be substantially better then ComCast... who they are replacing.

Not to mention that I get more channels, another set-top-box, and it's $40.00 per month cheaper!


----------



## Gerhard

I can say that after 24 hours I have noticed that the 800 series HD channels do have a fair amount of pixelation.

Humph.h


----------



## bielen

This past March I switched from DirecTV with Tivo to Verizon FIOS with their networked DVR. For the most part, everything works, however, I really loved the ease of use of the Tivo interface.

I haven't switched to HDTV, but plan to do so before the end of the year.

I have a few general questions:

1) I've been reading about compatibility issues especially in regard to pixelation with programming. Is this a frequent occurance?

2) Are there usually issues getting the CableCards configured through Verizon?

3) With DirecTV, there was a coax output so I could run the signal to a second televison and use an RF remote to control the TV from a different room? Is there any way to do this with the Series3? I don't see a coax out on the back of the unit.

Thanks


----------



## Gregor

1. I think you'll find pixelation on any system reported here. It's certainly not specific to Verizon.
2. Don't know
3. No coax out on the S3. Component, composite, s-video and HMDI.


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## Jasper

I have had FIOS for about 6 mo now and I got my series 3 a week after the FIOS TV was installed. My experience here in VA has been :
1) No pixelation on HD channels, I do have an ocassional hiccup now and again but that goes with any broadcast service. I do think the picture quality is much better than Directv.
2) I had no problems with the cablecard install. I did not tell the phone rep why I wanted the c.c. 's, as at the time no one had heard of a Series 3 Tivo.... The installer had also never seen a Series 3 Tivo but I walked him through it with the info at the beginning of this thread. It took about 15 minutes to install the c.c.'s and everything has worked flawlessly since. YMMV
3) no coax out...


----------



## pauldy

bielen said:


> This past March I switched from DirecTV with Tivo to Verizon FIOS with their networked DVR. For the most part, everything works, however, I really loved the ease of use of the Tivo interface.
> 
> I haven't switched to HDTV, but plan to do so before the end of the year.
> 
> I have a few general questions:
> 
> 1) I've been reading about compatibility issues especially in regard to pixelation with programming. Is this a frequent occurance?
> 
> 2) Are there usually issues getting the CableCards configured through Verizon?
> 
> 3) With DirecTV, there was a coax output so I could run the signal to a second televison and use an RF remote to control the TV from a different room? Is there any way to do this with the Series3? I don't see a coax out on the back of the unit.
> 
> Thanks


We never had a problem with pixelation until we had a problem with a cable card and had to fight with TiVo to get them to fix it. Once we got the unit back we now have a few channels that are really bad about it. My best guess is some units have the issue some don't and its luck of the draw and probably not provider related.

I think the biggest issue with getting the cable cards setup has just been ignorance on the part of the installers. This should be a relative non-issue now as the cards have been out for a while and the installers should have at least a little experience with them vs non months back.

You can pipe it to a second display using the component output but not rf. I don't know why they don't support digital rf out because unlike analogue rf the minimal signal loss does not directly equate to a loss in picture quality.


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## eggpro

I live in socal.. i just fios tv on thursday.. moving from direct tv after 10 years MUCH better picture.. I haven't received any pixelation problems.. (yet) the tivo series 3 works without any problems although when I was loading the guide off the tivo server my tivo crashed.. I tryed it again, and it worked like a charm. I have the Component feed my hd tv and I have the S video feed and second audio feed going to my sling box. the only thing i've notice if you have a 2nd tv, sling etc. hooked up the output format for set 16x9 or 4:3 is global setting meaning if you have a 16x9 tv you want to want HD it is set for 16x9 and your second tv 4:3 everything is going to be anmorphic. thats kind of a bummer.. luckily my sling box can receive a 16:9 signal and center cut it (pilarbox)
I hope that helps.


----------



## litkaj

Just thought I'd toss in here here that I had an installer come out on Monday to "install" the CableCARDs in my new S3. Aside from some confusion about that 161-4 error, everything went smoothly and the guy was done in about 45 minutes.

I've checked out all of the channels and it doesn't look like I have any of the PQ issues that some of you described. All of my channels are registering on the TiVo with 97% signal strength or higher with about 85% of them pegged at 100%.

One thing worth mention is that about 4 hours after the installer left, my new S3 took a dump and refused to turn back on. I exchanged it for a new one, fully expecting to need to call Verizon to have them reactivate my cards, but I was simply able to swap them from the busted TiVo into the new one and they worked as expected. It looks like Verizon may not be pairing the cards to a specific device during the activation process.


----------



## JustAllie

I searched this thread and didn't find anything, so I thought I'd just ask:

Has anyone else with Verizon FiOS run into an error that says "*CableCARD 1 is not in normal operation*"?

I got this error using two different CableCARDs when the Verizon tech came over yesterday to do my install. (Up until now I've just been using the Series3 for analog stations, and I finally got around to requesting the CableCARDs.)

The Verizon tech called whoever it is that they call with technical questions, and that person had no answer. So I called TiVo tech support and they thought it was probably the CableCARD slot(s), and they're sending me a replacement TiVo.

I convinced the Verizon tech to leave the CableCARDS behind so that I can try them myself when the new TiVo arrives, rather than trying to schedule another Verizon visit. Apparently there is an 800 number I can call to activate them. If they don't work, I can call to schedule a visit to get two new cards to try.

While I await the arrival of the replacement TiVo to see if this one works with the CableCARDs, I just wondered if anyone else had this issue.

By the way, I also had the screen about error code 161-4 popping up, but I couldn't ignore it and go ahead with the activation because instead of getting the screen with the Host ID and so on, we got a screen that just said "CableCARD 1 is not in normal operation."


----------



## pfortin

JustAllie said:


> IHas anyone else with Verizon FiOS run into an error that says "*CableCARD 1 is not in normal operation*"?
> (


Yes...when Verizon installed the CableCards we had a few of them come up with this issue...we have 2 Series 3s and it took about 8 CableCards to get 4 good ones. The card would look OK on insertion - but when the activation was sent - the card would not activate properly and then go into this mode which would cause a repeated error to pop up every couple seconds...my advice would be to pull out the card and try another.


----------



## JustAllie

pfortin said:


> ...my advice would be to pull out the card and try another.


Well, we tried two, and the Verizon guys only seem to carry around the number that they actually need that day. In fact, the tech said that they often don't have CableCARDs at all even if you've set up the appointment specifically for a CableCARD install, and then a supervisor needs to bring one out, or they end up having to schedule a second truck roll. The Verizon tech seemed to indicate that it was a regular issue for them, since he said the techs only find out what is needed for a given appointment after they arrive at the appointment, and they're not allowed to cart around a bunch of spare CableCARDs. 

Anyway, we tried both of the ones the guy brought with him, so it's certainly possible that they're both faulty, but maybe it was the TiVo. I guess we'll find out!


----------



## JustAllie

JustAllie said:


> Well, we tried two, and the Verizon guys only seem to carry around the number that they actually need that day. In fact, the tech said that they often don't have CableCARDs at all even if you've set up the appointment specifically for a CableCARD install, and then a supervisor needs to bring one out, or they end up having to schedule a second truck roll. The Verizon tech seemed to indicate that it was a regular issue for them, since he said the techs only find out what is needed for a given appointment after they arrive at the appointment, and they're not allowed to cart around a bunch of spare CableCARDs.
> 
> Anyway, we tried both of the ones the guy brought with him, so it's certainly possible that they're both faulty, but maybe it was the TiVo. I guess we'll find out!


Follow-up: The replacement TiVo exhibits the exact same symptoms with these CableCARDs.

The Verizon tech support guy I just talked to on the phone is trying to find someone who can figure out what's wrong, to see if replacement cards are needed or if these just need to be activated. I don't see how they can be activated if I can't even get the CableCARD menu to display the HostID. It just says "CableCARD 1 is not in normal operation."

Sigh.


----------



## JustAllie

OK, we finally got two CableCARDs that work. We had to try 7 different cards in total.

For future reference, this part of TiVo's online support documentation was kind of helpful:



> The CableCARD will take a minute or two to initialize. During this time, the CableCARD screens will display a message such as "Card not in normal operation". This does not indicate damage to the CableCARD; as soon as initialization is complete, the message will be replaced with information generated by the CableCARD and the installer will be able to proceed with activation.
> 
> If you see the message Updating Firmware when you insert a CableCARD, or if the configuration screen does not appear within 5 minutes, it means that your cable provider is updating the CableCARD's internal software. DO NOT remove the CableCARD or unplug the DVR until the firmware update is complete! Doing so may permanently damage the CableCARD.
> 
> <snip>
> For Motorola CableCARDs, many cable providers send an activation signal that causes the DVR to issue error 161-4. This is normal and can be ignored. *If you see 161-4 more than once, or if you see any other 161-x signal, it means that the card is damaged and needs to be replaced.*


All of the non-working CableCARDs we tried gave the 161-4 error dozens of times, not just once.

I wonder if the other CableCARDs were damaged when someone yanked them during a firmware update.


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## Flojomojo

My Cable Card installation required 2 technician visits -- the first tech didn't activate the premium channels on one card. The hardware was fine, but neither installer, nor the people on the other end of the phone, had any clue about what they were doing. I had to walk them through the process, and they didn't seem particularly interested in learning something new. Disappointing, but they did arrive on time and were reasonably polite about the whole thing.

That said, now that everything is in place and working as expected, this setup is much better than anything else -- picture quality is superb and the dual tuners work seamlessly. I don't miss the junk of On Demand at all, which is a bit of a surprise.


----------



## JustAllie

By the way, the tech couldn't answer this question, and now I'm really curious -- why do I get two copies of some channels? I'm not talking about a standard and an HD version, or an analog and a digital version -- they seem to be identical. 

For example, channel 160 is the SciFi Channel, and so is channel 560. (This is in the Northern VA FiOS lineup.) These are both in the digital category, but not in the HD category (which is up in the 800s).


----------



## TexasAg

JustAllie said:


> By the way, the tech couldn't answer this question, and now I'm really curious -- why do I get two copies of some channels? I'm not talking about a standard and an HD version, or an analog and a digital version -- they seem to be identical.
> 
> For example, channel 160 is the SciFi Channel, and so is channel 560. (This is in the Northern VA FiOS lineup.) These are both in the digital category, but not in the HD category (which is up in the 800s).


Fios has a Spanish-language package, which includes the channels in the 500s. I think these are duplicates that are to be replaced at a later date.


----------



## JustAllie

TexasAg said:


> Fios has a Spanish-language package, which includes the channels in the 500s. I think these are duplicates that are to be replaced at a later date.


So I guess I should tell my TiVo to ignore the channels in the 500s or risk finding that all my recordings of Stargate Atlantis are in Spanish next season?


----------



## litkaj

JustAllie said:


> So I guess I should tell my TiVo to ignore the channels in the 500s or risk finding that all my recordings of Stargate Atlantis are in Spanish next season?


Only if you're paying for the Spanish channels. If you don't there's no signal.


----------



## TexasAg

litkaj said:


> Only if you're paying for the Spanish channels. If you don't there's no signal.


There are a couple stations, including the SciFi channel, in the 500s that you get even without the Spanish-language channels.


----------



## oViTynoT

Yeah, it's silly that Verizon "bundles" duplicate channels into another channel block just to make their "packaging" simpler...

Those "Spanish" channels really aren't. The *footnote says that "Spanish is available as secondary audio" on those channels. Otherwise, they're the exact same feed with just a different channel number and a (sometimes) translated Information block...


----------



## LibrarianJane

We live in Virginia Beach, VA, and Verizon began our FiOS installation on Saturday, June 23. We previously had Verizon standard phone service, Cox internet, and Verizon DSL. The installer did not bring the 2 cable cards that were ordered--this seems to be their standard procedure from what I've been reading--and he worked about 6 hours getting the telephones, internet, and televisions more-or-less working. He didn't change the voice mail over to the new account (but same Verizon telephone number), and of course, the Tivo Series 3 did not get its cable cards. He also left several messy places where he worked. He said he would be back first thing on Monday with the cable cards, but on Monday around 8:30 a.m. he called to say he couldn't get the cable cards, but that another installer would bring them on Tuesday. This time there were two installers, but one admitted he knew nothing. The other said he had installed cable cards once, and that was about six months ago. Then he asked for the television's original remote so that he could get the information that he needed to install the cable cards. I told him that there was no information that he could get from the tv that would assist in setting up the cable cards in the Tivo. He was quite dismissive to me and essentially told me I didn't know what I was talking about, and he continued to search the various television menus for quite a few minutes before giving up and going to the Tivo. Meanwhile I held my tongue and went to my computer and printed out the cable card instructions from the Tivo site, and gave them to him. Through trial and error over about an hour and a half, he managed to get the cards working.

We didn't watch much television over the next several days so we don't know if the pixelation was there from the beginning, but now although most channels work just fine there is severe pixelation on Channels 800, 803, and 805--the local broadcast channels. When my husband called Verizon about this, the person he spoke with seemed quite surprised and suggested that he contact Tivo.

One more thing about FiOS. When I tried to set both our Series 3 and Series 2 Tivos after converting to both FiOS television and internet, I couldnt get them to connect to the network. The Tivos could see the network, but they wouldnt connect. The problem must have been the change in the router that came with the conversion to FiOS, because to make a long story short, I bought Tivo Wireless G adapters (Model AG0100) and after connecting them, the Tivos connected the network with no problem.


----------



## Gerhard

Anyone is the Montgomery Country, Maryland Area having problems with there Verizon FIOS TV service and their Tivo 3 over the last week?

I'm getting what I'd call garble (distortion) on the screen of many of my channels intermittantly.

My cable card installation was a few months ago, and everything pretty much went well. However, now I'm seeing this issue.

To say that Verizon has been a PITA is an understatement, but for us it's not be on the technology side, but with there billing. They turned off our service because the tech never told them he finished the install, so we got a free month of FIOS TV... I can't imagine that them reactivating the cards would cause any issues.

Oh, an I didn't let the tech install the new router or any of the additional on-demand stuff... I simply want normal TV service.


----------



## litkaj

Gerhard said:


> Anyone is the Montgomery Country, Maryland Area having problems with there Verizon FIOS TV service and their Tivo 3 over the last week?


I'm in Chester County, PA and I have had problems with a couple channels (only 2 or 3) over the past week (although I haven't seen it in the past two days). I was getting artifact, as if the signal was too weak, for a second or so, every ~20 seconds, for a total of 4-5 minutes, before it would go back to being fine.

It's affecting my STB in the bedroom as well as the S3, so, at least here, it's not the TiVo. It seems to be on the broadcast side BEFORE Verizon transmits to me since the S3 never claims that the signal drops below "100".


----------



## Gerhard

I've only been seeing at the S3... When they came an installed FIOS here, they removed my professional in-line distribution amp and put in their splitter. The amp I use give a +3DB gain without distortion. The S3 report 94dB at the unit...

Humph.

Gerhard


----------



## DCIFRTHS

Gerhard said:


> I've only been seeing at the S3... When they came an installed FIOS here, they removed my professional in-line distribution amp and put in their splitter. The amp I use give a +3DB gain without distortion. The S3 report 94dB at the unit...
> 
> Humph.
> 
> Gerhard


What amp were you using?


----------



## Gregor

litkaj said:


> I'm in Chester County, PA and I have had problems with a couple channels (only 2 or 3) over the past week (although I haven't seen it in the past two days). I was getting artifact, as if the signal was too weak, for a second or so, every ~20 seconds, for a total of 4-5 minutes, before it would go back to being fine.
> 
> It's affecting my STB in the bedroom as well as the S3, so, at least here, it's not the TiVo. It seems to be on the broadcast side BEFORE Verizon transmits to me since the S3 never claims that the signal drops below "100".


How much trouble was installing the cable cards? When I asked a Verizon tech doing an install for my neighbor he told me that Verizon wasn't supporting cablecards for Tivo yet.


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## acvthree

There are a lot of us with Verizon that have had a Tivo Series 3 for months. Mine was installed before Christmas and was a very quick and easy installation. You tech was confused.

Al


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## JustAllie

Gregor said:


> How much trouble was installing the cable cards? When I asked a Verizon tech doing an install for my neighbor he told me that Verizon wasn't supporting cablecards for Tivo yet.


They're certainly installing them down here in Virginia -- although the techs complained that they don't get a lot of demand for them, and thus most of the techs have never installed one in a TiVo before. You'd do well to read as much documentation about the installation as possible, because the tech will probably not know how to navigate the TiVo menus or what to do if there is any sort of problem with the installation.

Ask them to bring a bunch of CableCARDs if at all possible, because most of them don't work. I think we tried 7 cards on 3 different service calls to get me 2 working CableCARDs. Oh, and at first we thought the problem was the TiVo, so I had to swap out the TiVo for a replacement, too. (Definitely skip that step unless you've tried a bunch of CableCARDs, because I seriously doubt the TiVo was at fault.)

This post I made after my experience has a link to TiVo's online documentation regarding CableCARD installation, and the part that I found particularly helpful when I was dealing with bad cards. The problem I was having was a "CableCARD 1 not in normal operation" error, and the gray CableCARD MMI screen never showed up when the bad cards were installed.


----------



## flipit

JustAllie said:


> They're certainly installing them down here in Virginia -- although the techs complained that they don't get a lot of demand for them, and thus most of the techs have never installed one in a TiVo before. You'd do well to read as much documentation about the installation as possible, because the tech will probably not know how to navigate the TiVo menus or what to do if there is any sort of problem with the installation.
> 
> Ask them to bring a bunch of CableCARDs if at all possible, because most of them don't work. I think we tried 7 cards on 3 different service calls to get me 2 working CableCARDs. Oh, and at first we thought the problem was the TiVo, so I had to swap out the TiVo for a replacement, too. (Definitely skip that step unless you've tried a bunch of CableCARDs, because I seriously doubt the TiVo was at fault.)...


I second that installations are happening without question in Virginia. I had two FiOS CableCards installed in my first S3 in January, and two more installed in my second in June. Each time, it was the tech's first S3 install (3 techs came for first install in January just to watch a TiVo install, 2 techs for second). I was lucky in that I didn't have any bad cards. First 2 worked in each S3.


----------



## TiVotion

I think "we don't support cablecards in TiVos" is the standard answer you get from any provider. They say it because they don't understand the subject, and it's the best answer they can come up with.

"Not supporting", I can understand. They can "not support" (ie, not provide service for) cablecards in my TiVo all they want - BUT, that doesn't mean they can't help me install a couple cablecards in my TiVo.

When I first got my S3 on release day, I had cable TV. I called the cable company and even though they didn't really understand, I told them I needed 2 cards and they were both going in one device, a Series 3 TiVo. The guy didn't question it. The installer came and he'd never heard of such a device, but I handed him the "instructions for installers" sheet that came with the S3 and I helped him through it. Both cards worked fine on the first try once he called in to have them activated.

When I recently switched to FIOS, of course the CS rep on the phone had no idea what I was talking about concerning the cablecards, but again I told her they were both going in one device. FIOS tech (2 of them) showed up, and neither one of them had ever heard of the S3 either. But I again walked them through the setup, and this time one of the techs activated both cards from his laptop computer while sitting on the floor in my living room. In a couple minutes, both cards came up. Again, no problem.

The only thing I'd advise is, when you call to request the cards, make sure the CS rep knows that both cards are for one device, so they don't try to charge an "extra outlet activation" (extra TV) hookup fee.

Nobody at Verizon seemed to know for sure, but I finally got it out of the installers that they don't carrry the cards around with them. They're sent out with jobs. They might occasionally end up with a stray one on the truck, but as a rule, they're sent out with the workorder.

Knock on wood, I've had no problems with 2 rounds of activation with 2 different providers. Biggest problem I had was the button on the bottom cable card slot on the S3 is busted. It will no longer push the card out of the slot.


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## JustAllie

TiVotion said:


> Nobody at Verizon seemed to know for sure, but I finally got it out of the installers that they don't carrry the cards around with them. They're sent out with jobs. They might occasionally end up with a stray one on the truck, but as a rule, they're sent out with the workorder.


I heard the same thing from every tech I dealt with. They don't carry them around with them. In fact, one guy said they sometimes don't even look at the work order to see if they might need one until they're already at your house, and so they have to go back to the office to get them or have a supervisor drive some out to them.


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## TiVotion

Yep. That's the impression I got. Nobody on the phone end of customer service knew for sure. In fact, one guy I got tried to tell me they carry them around on the truck, which I questioned. Another person said no, and another wasn't sure (I had to call several times, as my original workorder mysteriously disappeared. Somehow Verizon thought I had FIOS TV, and I didn't!).

All in all, the techs don't seem to care for cablecards. And they are very leery of them. My techs were relieved, and they even thanked me, for knowing how to work the TiVo, and for knowing where the cablecard information screens were. So my other bit of advice is, help your installer out - learn the cablecard menus and be prepared when they stick the cards in to know how to get back to those screens. It will help your installer a lot. And follow the directions carefully. Insert the first card in the bottom slot, activate, check channels, then once that's working, rinse and repeat with the other card slot.


----------



## Gerhard

Note the tab on the right side of the Verizon page says "Cable Cards:"

http://www22.verizon.com/content/fiostv/customer+support/faqs/faqs.htm

Gerhard


----------



## Gerhard

As to the line (whole house) amp I've got:

Electroline
EDA-FT08100
"Drop Amp"

7 output

+3dB gain
0dB reverse loss

5-42 & 54-1000MHz & 6kV Surge Protection

(powered)

Made for use with cable modems and whole house installations, and specifically does not block the return path to the head end.

Verizon Splitter:

PDI
6 Way at 11.5dB loss per connection
5-1000MHz
PDI-6WMS-5 combo-wave
"Mega Splitter"
(not powered)

I've got absolutely no problem with the drop amp I purchased, and it works flawlessly. The Verizon tech told me that it couldn't be used, but considering that they install the same amps when the splitters degrade the signal too much, I thought he really had no clue what he was talking about.

(But, then again, I'm a systems engineer... and I can read the documentation from the vendor...)


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## Gerhard

Since I'm hogging the thread anyway...

I did notice that some of the channels are at 97% and others are at 100% signal strength.

Yesturday, with the drop amp reinstalled, I was seeing signals around 90%.

So I think there may be intermittant issues FIOS TV in the Germantown, MD area.

Gerhard


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## stephenju

Hi newbie here.

I just had FIOS TV installed last week with no STBs but a CC in my Panasonic plasma. It's working great.

I've been waiting for a cheaper HD TiVo for a long time and now the new TiVo HD is announced and it's said to support MCard out of the box. So my question is does Verizon provide MCard now?

Also, if somehow I find out the card in my TV is an MCard, can I just pull it out and plug it into TiVo and activate it with Verizon by calling some number?

Thanks.

BTW. I am in Boston area.


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## bdraw

M-Cards are out in the wild, but who knows what your chances of getting one is. You may have to really raise some hell to get one. They do say M-Card or multi-stream right on the card, so they are easy to identify.

As for swapping CableCARDs, you're not supposed to be able to, but many have been.


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## wmcbrine

I have the sneaking suspicion that, when M-Cards become available, they'll cost the same to rent as two regular cards.


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## Martin Tupper

stockwatch_1999 said:


> I can report that Montgomery County, MD seems to have the same local HD pixelation problems (801-809) as the folks down in Texas. Verizon fiber support seems at a loss so if anyone has found the solution to this problem, please post. Otherwise, I am afraid I'm back to Comcast.


Was there ever a resolution to this? I had FIOS TV installed yesterday in Falls Church, VA, and sure enough, my local HD channels (801-809 & 860-???) are pixelating. What have people done to resolve these issues?


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## bdraw

Why not just use an antenna? You'll probably get more channels anyways.

One of the favorite things about the S3 is how well it integrates OTA and Cable/FIOS. I know it's silly, but it's also nice to have the locals where they belong, at channel 3, 10, 13, and 28, rather than 803, 810 etc.


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## Martin Tupper

bdraw said:


> Why not just use an antenna? You'll probably get more channels anyways.
> 
> One of the favorite things about the S3 is how well it integrates OTA and Cable/FIOS. I know it's silly, but it's also nice to have the locals where they belong, at channel 3, 10, 13, and 28, rather than 803, 810 etc.


I've been using OTA exclusively for 3 months with my Series 3. However, multipath issues and different tower locations prevent me from getting all of my locals reliably with my current (silver sensor) antenna. While I could invest in an array of rooftop antennae to (hopefully) improve the reliability of my reception, that's what I'm paying Verizon for.


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## bdraw

Martin Tupper said:


> While I could invest in an array of rooftop antennae to (hopefully) improve the reliability of my reception, that's what I'm paying Verizon for.


I'm with you on that one, all the channels should work, period.

But at the same time, if I liked everything about FIOS except one problem that may or may not be fixed down the road; and I could resolve this myself while at the same time take advantage of a few other benefits, then why not?

Also, whether you have Comcast or FIOS, the OTA antenna can come in handy for when your service is unavailable because of a storm, the quality is sometimes better and more channels to boot. All this for under $100, seems hard to beat.

Here is my current antenna config.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/01/30/ota-hd-demystified/


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## musicforme

Gerhard said:


> Since I'm hogging the thread anyway...
> 
> I did notice that some of the channels are at 97% and others are at 100% signal strength.
> 
> Yesturday, with the drop amp reinstalled, I was seeing signals around 90%.
> 
> So I think there may be intermittant issues FIOS TV in the Germantown, MD area.


I doubt a problem in your area would cause a lower signal strength on the S3.

The ONT on the side of your house generates the signal strength for the co-ax in your house. I had some issues early on with my Series 3 last year and ended up replacing some old co-ax in my attic.


----------



## Gerhard

Martin Tupper said:


> Was there ever a resolution to this? I had FIOS TV installed yesterday in Falls Church, VA, and sure enough, my local HD channels (801-809 & 860-???) are pixelating. What have people done to resolve these issues?


Interestingly, I notice that when I first has the FIOS TV Installed, the 800 series channels had motion based pixelization. (Like a highly compressed signal...)

After a day or two, it suddenly stopped.

The recent pixelization that we were experiencing here was most like distortion, similar to what happens what wind moves a satelite dish back and forth...

Gerhard


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## pugsley07302

Gerhard said:


> Anyone is the Montgomery Country, Maryland Area having problems with there Verizon FIOS TV service and their Tivo 3 over the last week?
> 
> I'm getting what I'd call garble (distortion) on the screen of many of my channels intermittantly.
> 
> My cable card installation was a few months ago, and everything pretty much went well. However, now I'm seeing this issue.
> 
> To say that Verizon has been a PITA is an understatement, but for us it's not be on the technology side, but with there billing. They turned off our service because the tech never told them he finished the install, so we got a free month of FIOS TV... I can't imagine that them reactivating the cards would cause any issues.
> 
> Oh, an I didn't let the tech install the new router or any of the additional on-demand stuff... I simply want normal TV service.


 Yep - same problem in North Bethesda -- pixelating on non-HD channels - very badly on Comedy Central and FX... are you having same issue?


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## bdraw

Had my FIOS CableCARD installed today, they guy had 5 cards with him and none were multi-stream cards. He said he hadn't heard of the M-Card before. Overall I am very satisfied with my install. Both guys were knowledgeable and they did a great job. 

Thanks to this forum on the heads of of that 161-1 error, it saved me some grief. One card of the four I had installed, still isn't showing up as authorized, but we couldn't get it working. I told him I would wait a few days before calling support.


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## megory

Ahk! No FIOS over here yet. I'm stuck with Bright House. Who knows how much the BH cards cost?


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## bdraw

In Tampa they charge $4/mo, FIOS charges $3/mo. Both are overpriced, but $3 is better than $4. Hopefully when the S3 is upgraded to support M-Cards, I can cut by bill down even further.


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## megory

bdraw said:


> In Tampa they charge $4/mo, FIOS charges $3/mo. Both are overpriced, but $3 is better than $4. Hopefully when the S3 is upgraded to support M-Cards, I can cut by bill down even further.


Right now I pay app. $32:

DVR Service 9.95 
Digital Add'l Outlet .95 
DVR Service 6.95 
DVR Smart Box 6.95 
HD DVR Smart Box 6.95

Plus $12.95 TiVo

When I get the new TiVonI'll pay for 2 cards, and whatever else they stick me for. Oh yeah, and the price of the Tivo and the new TV (so I'll save money, huh.)


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## bdraw

I'll let you know when I get my first bill.


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## Gerhard

megory said:


> Right now I pay app. $32:
> 
> DVR Service 9.95
> Digital Add'l Outlet .95
> DVR Service 6.95
> DVR Smart Box 6.95
> HD DVR Smart Box 6.95
> 
> Plus $12.95 TiVo
> 
> When I get the new TiVonI'll pay for 2 cards, and whatever else they stick me for. Oh yeah, and the price of the Tivo and the new TV (so I'll save money, huh.)


I was paying about $140.00/month for Comcast, and with the same service from Verizon I'm paying $90.00/month.

I really should break out the bill and see what the specific charges are.

Basically, I'm getting the 15/2 FIOS Internet service with FIOS TV for what I used to pay for just Comcast.


----------



## megory

Gerhard said:


> I was paying about $140.00/month for Comcast, and with the same service from Verizon I'm paying $90.00/month.
> 
> I really should break out the bill and see what the specific charges are.
> 
> Basically, I'm getting the 15/2 FIOS Internet service with FIOS TV for what I used to pay for just Comcast.


I also have charges of $73 which include a conglomeration of my internet services and assorted TV services (written in near bafflegab) so my total monthly charges are 113.10


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## bdraw

I waited a few days and still no luck on the 2nd CableCARD in my TiVo. It still insisted it was NOT_SUBSCRIBED in the conditional access CableCARD menu. So I called tonight and the guy said, sure I can fix that, just give me a sec. Honestly I didn't believe him, but a few minutes later I was up and running. I have to say that it seems like Verizon has a handle on things, especially compared to Bright House Networks. We'll see if I say the same thing after I request a M-Card for the TiVo HD I'm expecting.


----------



## megory

bdraw said:


> I waited a few days and still no luck on the 2nd CableCARD in my TiVo. It still insisted it was NOT_SUBSCRIBED in the conditional access CableCARD menu. So I called tonight and the guy said, sure I can fix that, just give me a sec. Honestly I didn't believe him, but a few minutes later I was up and running. I have to say that it seems like Verizon has a handle on things, especially compared to Bright House Networks. We'll see if I say the same thing after I request a M-Card for the TiVo HD I'm expecting.


Congratulations! You are a terrific canary for us!


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## bhaas

Is VZ sending any QAM chnls in the clear? If so, is the card necessary at all if one does not watch premium channels? I'm curious, because the FIOS system is inherently less prone to cable theft since its optical up to your house, thus VZ may not feel the need to encrypt all their digital chnls, just the a la carte ones?

I know the card serves for more than just decrypting, but...

Has anyone (Anne Arundel Maryland, specifically) been able to view/record without the card(s) installed? I know 2-49 are analog and it'll see those with or without the card.

If digitals are watchable without the card, what ones? locals only? all the SD non-premiums? SD+HD non-premiums?

I do not have any premium channels, just the standard pkg. 

thx.


----------



## JustAllie

bhaas said:


> Has anyone (Anne Arundel Maryland, specifically) been able to view/record without the card(s) installed? I know 2-49 are analog and it'll see those with or without the card.
> 
> If digitals are watchable without the card, what ones? locals only? all the SD non-premiums? SD+HD non-premiums?


Just 2-49 are viewable without the CableCARD(s) installed.


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## bhaas

thanks


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## bdraw

FIOS does have alot of clear QAM channels, but I'm not sure about watching them via the S3. The first 40 channels are clear, as well as all the OTA HD channels and many of the music channels. 

What isn't there ire channels like ESPN-HD, Discovery HD etc.


----------



## PlanoHD

I have Verizon FIOS in Plano, TX. My Series 3 started having problems again in mid-July. HD and non-HD channels are now pixelating so much that most of the recordings can't be watched. For a while, the problem was on non-HD channels but now it's on both. Several months ago, I was having problems with pixelation on local HD channels but it magically went away after a month or so of going back and forth with TIVO and Verizon about the problem. Does anyone know what the latest TIVO software update is and when it came out?


----------



## Ilene

Ditto here also in Plano.
After months of trying nearly everything posted in all the threads with no success, I decided to check all my connections from the TiVo to the TV including the cable from the wall. I also checked my modem connections, making sure everything was securely connected. Don't really know if this worked or not, but from 4/10 - mid-July the pixelation went away. I officially received 8.3 on 5/10, but I wonder if the beta version being out there positively affected things. Now like PlanoHD, it's back!!! (I haven't repeated the above-too much work to get behind the furniture to recheck the wiring and the modem connections.)

What's changed? Nothing on my part (I did attach an external drive, but that was weeks ago). But TiVo did release the cheaper version of the S3 with 8.1. Just seems too coincidental to me....

I am not too worried about this right now, but when the fall season starts up, I won't be happy. I record "must see TV" on my S2 as a back up (luckily it is a recorder so I can burn a DVD to watch in the living room - as most that have posted here have been whining about - I would prefer to MRV from my S2 to my S3, but we all know that we can't do it. Really don't understand the logic. From me to me, non "digital". And if I were to transfer from S3 to S2 wouldn't be in HD (but I am getting off topic -sorry).


----------



## PlanoHD

After reading some of the recent posts about the Series 3 slot 2 issues, I decided to remove the card in slot 2. The pixelation appears to be gone and I am hopeful that perhaps I will have one tuner until TIVO fixes the problem. However, this leaves me with only one working tuner. The "experiment" is still underway but this is what I did:

1. Removed the card in slot 2.
2. Restarted the TIVO.
3. Re-programmed the card in slot 1 through the TIVO setup menus.


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## Gerhard

pugsley07302 said:


> Yep - same problem in North Bethesda -- pixelating on non-HD channels - very badly on Comedy Central and FX... are you having same issue?


Yepper... but it's not a specific channel with any rhyme or reason to it... it just seems to happen.

As of the other day, I was still getting distortion type pixelization every once in a while.


----------



## Ron Tobin

Does anyone have a chart, sorted by frequency, of what channels are on what frequencies? That would be alot easier way to isolate the problem. It's very time consuming having to tune to each channel and then go to the diagnostics screen to determine the frequency.

It's also interesting that different pockets of the country have different issues. It's definitely a Verizon/Cable Card issue and Verizon needs to stop giving as an excuse that "they don't support Tivo". It's the cable card that they are supporting.


----------



## bdraw

I have two S3 TiVos connected with FIOS and I don't have any problems what so ever, here in Tampa FL. One of the TiVos was from the initial batch, since I bought it day one; and the other I just received a few weeks ago. I also live in a brand new house with RG6 coax, and only one high quality splitter between the TiVos and the brand new ONT (just installed last week). 

I know it's a pain, but maybe it would be worth a try to buy a brand new 50' RG6 coax cable from Home Depot and run it directly from the ONT to the TiVo to rule out any wiring problems. It might be possible that the TiVos are more sensitive to interference than other devices/software versions.


----------



## Gerhard

bdraw said:


> I have two S3 TiVos connected with FIOS and I don't have any problems what so ever, here in Tampa FL. One of the TiVos was from the initial batch, since I bought it day one; and the other I just received a few weeks ago. I also live in a brand new house with RG6 coax, and only one high quality splitter between the TiVos and the brand new ONT (just installed last week).
> 
> I know it's a pain, but maybe it would be worth a try to buy a brand new 50' RG6 coax cable from Home Depot and run it directly from the ONT to the TiVo to rule out any wiring problems. It might be possible that the TiVos are more sensitive to interference than other devices/software versions.


Yeah, I know that our house is wired with the heavy stuff... but there are some splitters and such, so that's why I put in the drop amp.

It's only intermttant, so that tells me that it's not a signal problem on the house side.


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## bdraw

Intermittent problems could be the amp itself, only one way to know for sure. To much signal can be worse than not enough.


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## Gerhard

bdraw said:


> Intermittent problems could be the amp itself, only one way to know for sure. To much signal can be worse than not enough.


The problems exisied prior to the amp's install and they really haven't changed much. (Haven't happened in the last two days...)

The drop amp is a very high end unit and specificially made for this type of application. I'm positive based on the symptoms that it's not the issue.


----------



## Flenser

I put in a call for Comcast to come back and install video service again. :-(

History: S3 purchase after four days of a Comcast DVR. Two moto CableCards from Comcast, no issues for months. Switch to FIOS TV when it's available in my town. No problems for a couple of months, then pixillation. Tech comes out, they screw with the router, replace the ONT, mess with the interior wiring, and everything seems fixed. Two weeks later, pixillation. Tech comes out, messes with everything and declares it's the TiVos.

I have two S3s with a total of four CableCards; all show the same problems. Some channels have minor pixillation, others are unwatchably bad, others give me a grey screen since they can't even tune in.

The thing that makes me think that it's the TiVo is that I can switch to one of the not-so-bad channels, and it's flawless for a count of 10, then it starts dropping audio and pixillating. Switch to another channel and back to the first, and it's flawless for another count of 10. That sounds like a buffering issue or something to me.

I'm fairly t'd off, but thank goodness it's not sweeps week.


----------



## Gerhard

Well,

I finally caught the pixelization / signal issue as it was happening, and immediately went to the diagnostic screen in the Tivo 3.

What I noticed was that the signal's dB range would fall to 0 and then jump to 74, then 86, then 0, and repeat in and around those ranges.

So the issue is that the Tivo is loosing it's signal lock on specific channels as the signal appears to cut out.

More over, it was only happening on CCard #1, CCard #2 was rock solid.

Does that sound like the two CCard issue that's been mentioned?

Gerhard


----------



## bhaas

ah30k said:



> They use pretty heavy machinery to bore the earth and push the conduit under streets and along curb lines. Perhaps (just a guess) this process is too rough for the fragile fiber. What is interesting in my 'hood is that they did not run conduit to each house, just the in-ground junction boxes spaced around every two or three houses. They will still need to trench to the homes.


time for a little mythbusting:
there is nothing fragile about fiber! Glass itself has amazing tensile strength, the individual fibers are cocooned in kevlar then wrapped in 3mm plastic, and the bundle is inside armored cable. Its almost the same stuff that has been sharkproofed for 20 years under the ocean. Backhoe fades are certainly a reality, but that happens with CATV and power, too.

VZ is not running fiber to individual houses until they specifically sign up for FIOS. Eventually they will replace the copper plant to everyone, but its far easier to let market forces dictate when to yank the copper at each house.


----------



## PlanoHD

I had posted recently that it looked like the pixelation was fixed on my S3 by removing the card from slot 2 and re-programming the card in slot1. This only worked for a very short time. Now I have regular pixelation even with one card.

I also have observed the signal problems that Gerhard mentioned. My S3 has trouble locking onto the channel when the pixelation is occurring.

Has anyone called TIVO for help?


----------



## Gerhard

I'm going to have to go with the ONT is loosing a signal on that channel and that that is causing the issue.

It's go to be a Verizon Head End or Distribution issue...


----------



## JonInVA

PlanoHD said:


> My S3 has trouble locking onto the channel when the pixelation is occurring... Has anyone called TIVO for help?


I've had pixellation on the same six FiOS TV "HD National" channels (825, 826, 827, 828, 833, 834 here in Loudon County VA) since I purchased my Series 3 back in February. It's always on these same six channels, and it always shows itself across all six channels simultaneously after the tuner has been locked onto any one of these six for 5+ minutes. If I change the channel on that tuner to any other channel but these six, wait 10-20 seconds, and then tune back, I'll have a solid picture for another 5 or so minutes.

It's very consistent, and very repeatable.

The best theory I've ever heard about the issue is that the S3 is having a hard time keeping the CableCARD paired up when tuned to one of these six channels, possibly because of something Verizon was doing on the fiber side, or something the ONT was doing on the coax side. I've tried everything I can think of on the COAX side to no avail.

I'm not at all surprised to hear that others are experiencing similar phenomena, or that the TiVo HD buyers are experiencing what appear to be even worse problems.

If the Verizon Motorola 6416 works fine, and an S3 with CableCARDs does not, then there is some sort of fundamental incompatibility here. I've never once tried to place blame, because it's useless and I've got an engineering background. I know how this stuff goes.

I just hope enough people experience it such that TiVo can actually isolate the issue. TiVo support engineers: feel free to contact me if you're trolling. I'd be very willing to run some test scenarios with you guys - I'm just completely burnt out on tech support call centers and avoid them like the plague.


----------



## bdraw

It's interesting that those are the only channels you're having problems with since those are the ones that require a CC to decode. But since it isn't all of the CC channels, it may be the frequency those channels are on. If you have a regular QAM tuner, maybe you could do a scan to see if those channels are next to each other.

The S3 may just be more susceptible to signal loss than the Moto DVR. I used to have a Pace STB that was much more susceptible to strong/weak signals than any other brand STB the cable company distributed. But it was still possible to get a perfect picture by tweaking the signal levels (amp/attenuator).

Not sure about VA, but here in Tampa, neither of my S3's have a problem with those FIOS channels and my friend also has a S3 and FIOS and doesn't have problems. I am expecting a TiVo HD soon, so I'll report back once I try it out.


----------



## Ron Tobin

bdraw said:


> .......... here in Tampa, neither of my S3's have a problem with those FIOS channels and my friend also has a S3 and FIOS and doesn't have problems. I am expecting a TiVo HD soon, so I'll report back once I try it out.


Ben:
As I reported either here, or on another thread, here in Sarasota I've now developed pixelization problems with some SD channels. My HD pixelization problems have mysteriously gone away. But what's interesting, is that when pixelization issues arise, the frequencies are grouped together. I've isolated my SD pixelization to a group in the 400mhz area.

I called into VZ tech support and they are scheduling yet another service call to my house. But I told them that I need someone that is familiar with and understands cable cards, inasmuch as it's the cable cards that are having difficulties decoding the information and causing the pixelization. Not overly confident that they will be able to fix it (other than suggesting that I dump my Tivo S3 and switch to a Fios DVR) but I have no choice but to start this nonsense again.

It's got to be a distribution center problem, i.e., Temple Terrace or Sarasota. Not sure how their signals are distributed.


----------



## bdraw

Ron,
Since the problem doesn't seem to affect Tampa, I doubt it is Temple Terrance, I think it was more likely a problem in your house (ONT, wires, etc) or Sarasota.


----------



## Ron Tobin

bdraw said:


> Ron,
> Since the problem doesn't seem to affect Tampa, I doubt it is Temple Terrance, I think it was more likely a problem in your house (ONT, wires, etc) or Sarasota.


I suspect then, that if Tampa is fine, then it's something either along the way from Temple Terrace or the local distribution point. When I had the HD problems, they did all the wire tests, splitter tests, changed out the ONT, yet still never landed on the cause or a solution.

I'll post results after their visit.


----------



## andrewket

Gerhard said:


> Well,
> 
> I finally caught the pixelization / signal issue as it was happening, and immediately went to the diagnostic screen in the Tivo 3.
> 
> What I noticed was that the signal's dB range would fall to 0 and then jump to 74, then 86, then 0, and repeat in and around those ranges.
> 
> So the issue is that the Tivo is loosing it's signal lock on specific channels as the signal appears to cut out.
> 
> More over, it was only happening on CCard #1, CCard #2 was rock solid.
> 
> Does that sound like the two CCard issue that's been mentioned?
> 
> Gerhard


This is going to sound really dumb, but try inserting some attenuation on your RF feed. FIOS's RF signal is really hot, especially over RG6. It may be too strong for the receiver inside the Tivo.

Andrew


----------



## Ron Tobin

No resolution to my issues. After over 3 hour visit yesterday by VZ tech, who was inexperienced with cable cards, and spent most of his time on the phone with support, he said that the cable cards have known issues. I got him to leave me a VZ DVR, along with the cable cards, until the problems get resolved.

For anyone interested, these are the frequencies, with the channels in brackets, where I'm having problems:

441 mhz [161, 140, 123, 108, 160]
447 mhz [80, 81]
453 mhz [101, 110, 150]
435 mhz [120]
417 mhz [119]

Besides calling VZ and trying to avoid paying for both cable cards and a DVR, I need to escalate this through technical support, since it's a local problem. Can anyone give me any advice as to how and with whom to approach this? It's not a problem with my ONT, cable, splitters, attenuators. It's a system/cable card compatibility problem.


----------



## PSUMattDE

Hey Ron-
If you want some good help from Verizon FIOS people - become a member at DSLReports.com - and then go to the Verizon Direct forum:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/vzdirect

They have higher-tier technicians that will work with you to fix any problems.

Either Joe or Gustavo will help you out - they've helped me with many a TV problem.

Good luck.


----------



## Ron Tobin

PSUMattDE said:


> Hey Ron-
> If you want some good help from Verizon FIOS people - become a member at DSLReports.com - and then go to the Verizon Direct forum:
> 
> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/vzdirect
> 
> They have higher-tier technicians that will work with you to fix any problems.
> 
> Either Joe or Gustavo will help you out - they've helped me with many a TV problem.
> 
> Good luck.


Thanks. I've already posted a detailed question there. Hopefully, it will get resolved.


----------



## PlanoHD

I called TIVO last week and they suggested that I call Verizon to have them initialize the cable cards. The person at TIVO got on a 3-way call with me and we asked Verizon to initialize the cable cards but The Verizon tech instead initialized my set top boxes. I explained to the Verizon tech that my S3 TIVO did not use the set top boxes but he did not seem to know how to initialize the cable cards as the TIVO never showed any signs of having been initialized. The Verizon tech decided to send out someone to the house to initialize the cards. I had reservations about it since I have already spent hours with Verzion techs at the house while they tried to figure out the pixelation problem.

The Verizon technician who came out to the house was very nice and was willing to do whatever needed to be done to fix the problem. However, I have already spent too much time on this problem and did not want to waste more time. I explained to the Verizon technician that I just wanted the TIVO cards initialized as requested by TIVO but that the Verizon tech who I had worked with on the phone did not seem to know what to do. He got on the phone and called someone at Verizon who was able to initialize my TIVO cable cards within minutes. This time I did notice that the TIVO lost its signal and a TIVO screen came up indicating there was a problem with the signal and that I should contact my cable company.

The pixelation problem seems to have cleared up my pixelation issues for now. I can only be hopeful that it actually did something.


----------



## legalaliens

andrewket said:


> This is going to sound really dumb, but try inserting some attenuation on your RF feed. FIOS's RF signal is really hot, especially over RG6. It may be too strong for the receiver inside the Tivo.
> 
> Andrew


How would I go about "inserting some attenuation on my RF feed"? Can you put that in lay man's terms?


----------



## cxpistol

I have been reading this thread for a year and enjoy all the updates. I joined the HD ranks last November, and have had pixelation from time to time on different channels that went away in less than 24 hours, but this week, bad pixelation on 6 channels 825 thru 834. The interesting thing is that not only do I have 2 CC's in the TIVO, but another CC is directly inserted into a Sony TV in another room. Same exact problems!! Had verizon techs out yesterday, and they checked all the wiring, and replaced the ONT, but still pixelation continued in both rooms. An hour after the tech left, everything is fine, at least for now???? I actually record important local shows off the ANT, I hate season passing pixelated garbage, but wonder what am I paying for????


----------



## GadgetGav

Super smooth FiOS TV install yesterday (just outside Rt128 in MA).
Two Moto CableCards installed without a hitch, re-ran guided setup, everything looks great. I'd made sure to set up the TiVoHD before hand and restart it after a service update, and the Verizon guy had done a couple of TiVos before, but there were no problems at all. Very happy.


----------



## kurtster

Boy after reading all the problems with the S3 and FIOS I'm not so sure I want to switch. It sounds like we're beta testers for both companies. This stuff isn't cheap. I can understand FIOS being new technology implementation and all but it's the 3rd gen for Tivo. With the price points for all this gear they really ought to be rock solid by now.

My HDMI port died last night on by DirecTivo HD unit so now I'm on Component video. :-(


----------



## andrews777

musicforme said:


> I plan on ordering my Tivo from the VIP link today and will call Verizon once I have the S3 in-hand. I hope to be up and runing on Fios TV by the end of next week.


They were booking 5 business days out here, so you may want to schedule your install a bit earlier.

I have to wait until next Wednesday to get Fios now! 

They just launched it in my area and enabled it last night. 

Brad


----------



## TheBar1

In case you missed this other thread, TiVo will begin offering a $200 rebate on the Series3 for purchases made between 9/16/07 and 1/26/08.

As a recent FiOS joiner (8/16/07) from the DirecTV w/TiVo realm, I have been patiently awaiting just such a deal to get the WAF going. Of course the stars will still need to align for me on getting a Multistream cable card from Verizon.


----------



## bdraw

The Series3 doesn't support M-Cards yet.


----------



## F4Boy

From another Post:

I just got off the phone with Tivo tech support letting them know of Audio drops/pixeliztion I'm having with FIOS on the SD channels 2-49 and the music channels 6xx. I currently have version 8.3.x. They are aware of this issue and a software upgrade is in the works, but they don't know when it will be available, of course. 

Also, I checked the Moto DVR and there seemed to be 'surging' audio on the music channels. After a reset, the Moto DVR was fine. Just want to post my symptoms in case it may help us solve this problem.


----------



## cxpistol

had verizon tech our today, checked all wires, splitters, signal strength, and the ont has already been replaced...........still no luck on channels 825 thru 834, intermittent pixelation............tech called it in to network support and they think they know what it is and will resolve it by 3pm today...........Iamb working the night shift and look forward to getting home for MNF. but I recorded channel 60, instead of 826, what faith..............


----------



## kpepling

I had some pixelation on ESPNHD today. Not sure if it's a cablecard issue, TiVoHD issue or ESPNHD issue. Did anyone else notice any issues today during the pregame show? I've only had my cards installed on thursday but I haven't noticed any other issues before today. I also wasn't having any issues on any other channels. The breakup I was getting was really bad too, including audio breakup. Pretty much unwatchable at times.


----------



## Gerhard

F4Boy said:


> From another Post:
> 
> I just got off the phone with Tivo tech support letting them know of Audio drops/pixeliztion I'm having with FIOS on the SD channels 2-49 and the music channels 6xx. I currently have version 8.3.x. They are aware of this issue and a software upgrade is in the works, but they don't know when it will be available, of course.
> 
> Also, I checked the Moto DVR and there seemed to be 'surging' audio on the music channels. After a reset, the Moto DVR was fine. Just want to post my symptoms in case it may help us solve this problem.


I've been having the audio drop problem too!!!

Have to reboot the Tivo to fix it!!!

Is this common???!?!!?


----------



## naybag

I have been considering purchasing a new HD tivo to replace my S2 tivo, because I find the Verizon Fios DVR seriously lacking. But the topics in this thread give me a great deal of pause. Anyone care to lavish praise on their S3 combined with Fios experience? 

If it matters, I am in the Washington Metropolitan region and my husband would have huge problems if ESPN was pixelated during Monday night football or Pardon the Interruption.


----------



## andrews777

naybag said:


> I have been considering purchasing a new HD tivo to replace my S2 tivo, because I find the Verizon Fios DVR seriously lacking. But the topics in this thread give me a great deal of pause. Anyone care to lavish praise on their S3 combined with Fios experience? If it matters, I am in the Washington Metropolitan region and my husband would have a fit if


I never had a Fios unit, but my 2 Tivo HDs work OK. They are not as easy to use (IMHO) as my Dish 522s were, but they are OK once you learn them.

How is that for a wishy-washy recommendation? 

Brad


----------



## Gerhard

naybag said:


> I have been considering purchasing a new HD tivo to replace my S2 tivo, because I find the Verizon Fios DVR seriously lacking. But the topics in this thread give me a great deal of pause. Anyone care to lavish praise on their S3 combined with Fios experience?
> 
> If it matters, I am in the Washington Metropolitan region and my husband would have huge problems if ESPN was pixelated during Monday night football or Pardon the Interruption.


The S3 works pretty well, that's not an issue. The features are great and it's really more a matter of ironing out the few kinks.

The sound drop thing has only happened a few times, and with regard to FIOS, the biggest issue I've had is with their billing department.

The "block" aka pixelization (not signal drop, but fine pixelization) does happen.

That can be a little annoying. Is it a deal killer, not really. Would it be nice if Tivo got off their butts and fixed it, YES!

Gerhard


----------



## bdraw

No box is perfect and the TiVo is better than what FIOS or anyone else offers.


----------



## hooper

naybag said:


> I have been considering purchasing a new HD tivo to replace my S2 tivo, because I find the Verizon Fios DVR seriously lacking. But the topics in this thread give me a great deal of pause. Anyone care to lavish praise on their S3 combined with Fios experience?
> 
> If it matters, I am in the Washington Metropolitan region and my husband would have huge problems if ESPN was pixelated during Monday night football or Pardon the Interruption.


I had the Verizon DVR for about 6 months until upgrading to the Tivo HD. Painlees install even with a tech who had never seen a cable card before. I couldn't stand the remote lag or the guide data. I could put up with the Comcast DVR, but the Verizon one is a big steaming pile of crap.

Luckily I still have a lifetime Series 1 box and was eligible for MSD, otherwise I wouldn't have bought the new unit due to cost.

I haven't noticed any issues, but I haven't had the box very long and am more of a casual user. I put up with close to 5 years of pixellation problems on Comcast.... so am very tolerant.


----------



## kpepling

I just read the following article.

If Verizon switches FiOS to completely IPTV what does that mean for us TiVo users? I know that currently we would be SOL. Would the potential SDV dongle also work for IPTV?


----------



## joysbox

point blank - Verizon HD FIOS works with the S3.
I have it with two cable cards, no issues what so ever.
who knows what will happen in the future, but it is working for me (Northern VA)
fine.


----------



## bdraw

FIOS works now, why worry too much about tomorrow?

Because it's fun, so here we go. Why install the ONT and spend all the money on STBs only to replace it all in 3 years? The IPTV options existed when they started to roll out FIOS, why not go with it in the first place? IPTV is used around the world and with AT&T U-Verse. The technology was available they decided to go in another direction, I doubt that reason will change and be implemented in 3 years.


----------



## AbMagFab

bdraw said:


> FIOS works now, why worry too much about tomorrow?
> 
> Because it's fun, so here we go. Why install the ONT and spend all the money on STBs only to replace it all in 3 years? The IPTV options existed when they started to roll out FIOS, why not go with it in the first place? IPTV is used around the world and with AT&T U-Verse. The technology was available they decided to go in another direction, I doubt that reason will change and be implemented in 3 years.


And remember, this is FTTH, not FTTN. They have tons of extra bandwidth on that fiber, and could easily *add* IPTV to the existing service. That way, they support both the QAM model, and the IPTV model. Just drop another box in the house, or another output from the ONT.

FIOS has by far the best infrastructure to support just about anything going forward, and more than enough bandwidth to do it (they are actually working on doubling the bandwidth as we speak, and can improve it my 1-2 orders of magnitude with existing technologies).


----------



## naybag

naybag said:


> I have been considering purchasing a new HD tivo to replace my S2 tivo, because I find the Verizon Fios DVR seriously lacking. But the topics in this thread give me a great deal of pause. Anyone care to lavish praise on their S3 combined with Fios experience?


Although there were no glowing reviews, I have just placed an order for the HD Tivo. Sounds like other than not completely working, it's still far preferable than the Fios DVR. Last night, on the Fios DVR, all of the programming was 30 minutes behind. This meant that Chuck started taping at 8:30pm, Heroes at 9:30, and Journeyman at 10:30!!!! Luckily I had all of Heroes, but only the 2nd half of Chuck and the 1st half of Journeyman.


----------



## DingoAce10

HELP!!! Just got my Tivo S3 yesterday...Called VZ Fios to get 2 new cablecards not knowing there might be an issue...Now I have the service manager calling me back to tell me something about the CCs having limitations? If it is just PPV, The Guide (hate that anyways) and OD I am not that worried...I have another CC running in my TV so if I need thoughs I can just switch to that input.

Please help! I hate the VZ DVR SO MUCH!!! I want tivo! Wanted to get an answer before they call me back.


----------



## ah30k

bdraw said:


> FIOS works now, why worry too much about tomorrow?
> 
> Because it's fun, so here we go. Why install the ONT and spend all the money on STBs only to replace it all in 3 years? The IPTV options existed when they started to roll out FIOS, why not go with it in the first place? IPTV is used around the world and with AT&T U-Verse. The technology was available they decided to go in another direction, I doubt that reason will change and be implemented in 3 years.


Easy to question the decision but lets look at the results. How many orders of magnitude more subscribers do you think Verizon has compared to AT&T. Who made the right call?

Verizon went with this technology because they could re-use much of the largely mature cable technology and design a low-risk solution that works in the near term.


----------



## Ron Tobin

DingoAce10 said:


> HELP!!! Just got my Tivo S3 yesterday...Called VZ Fios to get 2 new cablecards not knowing there might be an issue...Now I have the service manager calling me back to tell me something about the CCs having limitations? If it is just PPV, The Guide (hate that anyways) and OD I am not that worried...I have another CC running in my TV so if I need thoughs I can just switch to that input.
> 
> Please help! I hate the VZ DVR SO MUCH!!! I want tivo! Wanted to get an answer before they call me back.


That's it. No VOD, no PPV, no widgets or anything else that's interactive. Those are the cable card's limitations.


----------



## DingoAce10

Thanks! What are the other "interactive" things that I might be missing? and are they fixing this or is that just a limitation and that is it?


----------



## acvthree

DingoAce10 said:


> Thanks! What are the other "interactive" things that I might be missing? and are they fixing this or is that just a limitation and that is it?


It is just a limitition. For some of the features Tivo has alternatives, like Amazon unbox instead of PPV.

Al


----------



## acvthree

Hmmmm, here is an idea.

When he calls, ask him if his DVR supports Amazon unbox. If he says no, ask him when they are going to fix that limitation.

Al


----------



## DingoAce10

Sorry, I already talked to the tech and he said it was a false alarm and that it will work fine, but since the Cards are not made by them, they don't fully support them. But the Tivo site has troubleshooting options to get it working correctly.

Not sure what Amazon unbox is, but it sounds interesting...I will check it out.


----------



## dallastx

Bought an HD at Costco on Tuesday. Guided setup went fine giving me channels 1-49. Called Verizon for cable cards, the guy came yesterday (Wed). Like others have said, the cable guy new nothing about TiVo or cable cards.

The installation went smoothly anyway. TiVo displays four numbers for each cable card. The guy didn't know what fields to enter so he called a guy and gave him the numbers over the phone. It turns out that he only used the "Host" and "Data" numbers. Had to run Guided Setup again to get all the digital channels including HD and premium.

I found the HD a little slow in displaying the guide. I think it's do to displaying it in HD. The grid form of the guide is very slow.

So far I love the HD. It beats the Verizon 6416. All that's left is replacing the hard disk with a 500GB Seagate DB35-SCE.


----------



## JasonJ75

dallastx said:


> Bought an HD at Costco on Tuesday.
> 
> So far I love the HD. It beats the Verizon 6416. All that's left is replacing the hard disk with a 500GB Seagate DB35-SCE.


Another Fios refugee here...Got my TiVo at Costco too. 

My HOA signed a deal with Verizon so everyone in my neighborhood has Fios and unfortunately we all have the same ridiculously pathetic DVR. You should see the rants on our community intranet, particularly since Vz rolled out the new software.

The corrupted or missed recordings (their guide missed the first half of the Hero's premier), and general navigation stupidity has people buying TiVos left and right. When the tech (dedicated to our community) came over to my house on Tuesday he said all he does lately is install CCs in "these new TiVos."

Two of my converts came online this week...I should be getting a cut of TiVo's goodness.


----------



## JustAllie

So my neighbor just got FiOS and despite my gentle proddings, they got the Verizon DVR. 

Should I wait a few weeks and then start sending her links to the TiVo.com web specials?


----------



## dallastx

I replaced the 160GB disk with a 500GB disk last Friday. Now I'm totally happy with 70 hours of HD capacity.

It will probably jinx me to say that I've had no problems so far. The cable cards work perfectly.


----------



## brimonte

I am a verizon tech that has been installing fios for 2 years now. Today i had a trouble where a series 3 tivo tuner with dual cable cards that was pixelating and couldn't find the problem. I came to find out that there is an internal problem with the box that is allowing RF leakage and causing the problem. It mostly happens on the lower frequency HD channels, but is also known on cartoon channels and HBO. Supposedly Tivo knows about the problem and is working on it. As I find more information on this I will post it.


----------



## Ron Tobin

brimonte said:
 

> I am a verizon tech that has been installing fios for 2 years now. Today i had a trouble where a series 3 tivo tuner with dual cable cards that was pixelating and couldn't find the problem. I came to find out that there is an internal problem with the box that is allowing RF leakage and causing the problem. It mostly happens on the lower frequency HD channels, but is also known on cartoon channels and HBO. Supposedly Tivo knows about the problem and is working on it. As I find more information on this I will post it.


Thanks for your post. Would you happen to know if your customer got the latest software update? It's supposed to address pixelization and sound drop off issues, but there haven't been many postings by users who have gotten the update and reported if it helped or didn't help.


----------



## wbradney

I received the Fall 9.1 software last night, and it hasn't resolved my pixellation problem, which consumes more and more channels every week, it seems.


----------



## stevieboy

I have Fios and I'm getting two CC's installed for my new HD TiVo on Thursday. Anything I should do to make the install go smooth? Also, has anyone gotten 2 CC's for the price of one because it is only one outlet? GREAT FORUM!!!

Thanks 
Steve


----------



## Ron Tobin

stevieboy said:


> Also, has anyone gotten 2 CC's for the price of one because it is only one outlet?
> 
> Thanks
> Steve


Each cable card is $2.98, so you're looking at $5.96 for your two cable cards.

P.S. Send your installer my way, when finished, as they still owe me one card relative to the home visit I had this past Saturday.


----------



## brimonte

as far as i know....he has yet to call them. and as far as our tech support is concerned, they haven't fixed it yet. anything else i hear I'll post it.


----------



## jerich007

Hello -

I'm seriously considering picking up a Series3 from Costco... my question is: are there any options for doing something like Verizon's MultiRoom DVR setup? I'd love to use the Series3 centrally in the living room, and using another device (homebrew or otherwise) to access it from the bedroom, office, etc.

Thanks
- J


----------



## bdraw

jerich007 said:


> I'm seriously considering picking up a Series3 from Costco... my question is: are there any options for doing something like Verizon's MultiRoom DVR setup? I'd love to use the Series3 centrally in the living room, and using another device (homebrew or otherwise) to access it from the bedroom, office, etc.


No, there will be MRV in November, but that will require a TiVo at every TV.


----------



## frombhto323

bdraw said:


> No, there will be MRV in November, but that will require a TiVo at every TV.


Do you mean every TV that you want to utilize MRV with must have a TiVo, or every TV in the house, regardless? I plan on having 2 TiVos in my house with 2 Fios boxes at the other TVs. I hope you are not saying this won't work.


----------



## TexasAg

frombhto323 said:


> Do you mean every TV that you want to utilize MRV with must have a TiVo, or every TV in the house, regardless? I plan on having 2 TiVos in my house with 2 Fios boxes at the other TVs. I hope you are not saying this won't work.


What are you expecting, that the Tivo boxes talk to the Verizon DVR boxes? They're completely different boxes using completely different technology to do MRV (IP vs. Moca).


----------



## bdraw

I mean every TV that has a TiVo will be able to watch content from any TiVo in the house.


----------



## frombhto323

TexasAg said:


> What are you expecting, that the Tivo boxes talk to the Verizon DVR boxes? They're completely different boxes using completely different technology to do MRV (IP vs. Moca).


No. I was just trying to verify that all TVs did not need to have Tivos in order for MRV viewing to work between those TVs that do. I asked the question because it seems obvious to me that MRV won't work on a TV that does not have a Tivo box connected to it.


----------



## TexasAg

frombhto323 said:


> No. I was just trying to verify that all TVs did not need to have Tivos in order for MRV viewing to work between those TVs that do. I asked the question because it seems obvious to me that MRV won't work on a TV that does not have a Tivo box connected to it.


You're right, MRV works between any two Tivos (depending on what kind they are and if they've all been updated, hopefully shortly).


----------



## aaronwt

bdraw said:


> No, there will be MRV in November, but that will require a TiVo at every TV.


Why wouldn't you have a TiVo at every TV? No point in having a TV without a TiVo connected to it.


----------



## JustAllie

aaronwt said:


> Why wouldn't you have a TiVo at every TV? No point in having a TV without a TiVo connected to it.


Wait... a TV will work without a TiVo attached to it? 

I have not tried that since... um... the fall of 2000.


----------



## denm316

Hello,

I just got my Series 3 and Verizon is coming out to install the Cable Cards on Saturday morning. Is there anything I should know that can help me out or make the porcess a little easier.

Anyone using a Series 3 in the Bucks County area of PA.

Thanks,
-Dennis


----------



## bdraw

Yes, go ahead and run guided setup before they get there.
Then make sure they use slot 1 first.
They will need 4 numbers to enter into their computer.
One is on the back of the card and the other three show up under the CableCARD menu (can't remember which menu item, but I think it's the top one).
After they activate the card there will be an error, I believe it's 161-4, but read through this thread to be sure.
It might take some time for them to activate, don't assume the card is bad unless you get an error. Take that error number and search this thread to see if anyone else has gotten it before.

Honestly, there have been a few issues, so to be on the safe side it'll be worth your while to read this entire thread.


----------



## andrews777

You may get a bunch of those errors. I did, but things have been working fine for weeks after everything was setup.

Brad


----------



## JustAllie

bdraw said:


> Yes, go ahead and run guided setup before they get there.
> Then make sure they use slot 1 first.
> They will need 4 numbers to enter into their computer.
> One is on the back of the card and the other three show up under the CableCARD menu (can't remember which menu item, but I think it's the top one).
> After they activate the card there will be an error, I believe it's 161-4, but read through this thread to be sure.
> It might take some time for them to activate, don't assume the card is bad unless you get an error. Take that error number and search this thread to see if anyone else has gotten it before.
> 
> Honestly, there have been a few issues, so *to be on the safe side it'll be worth your while to read this entire thread*.


I second this motion -- there are useful posts buried in the thread that will help you out when the technician arrives.


----------



## cxpistol

verizon techs have been out 3 times now trying to correct my pixelation problem on channels 825 thru 834. still no luck, but they seem to be intent on fixing this. I know it's not the Tivo series 3 because I have a cable card directly in a 32" Sony and it does the same thing. I'll send another post when this gets fixed.


----------



## gages97

I am currently a DirectTV user with the HR10 unit.

I have FIOS for internet and phone. 3 questions:

1. For the FIOS TV what additional cables need to be run from the ONT to inside the house? Is this coax cable and if so how many?

2. Once in the house, how does the distribution work? Does the cable from the ONT come into some type of splitter/multiswitch and how many ports does the splitter/multiswitch have?

3. I assume that the cable between the splitter/multiswitch is coax. If I am going to use 2 cablecards in the Tivo, I assume I need 2 coax cables (like I do now for the 2 DirectTV tuners)


Thx,


Steve


----------



## acvthree

1. Is your internet Ethernet now? There will also need to be one coax from the ONT.

2. The coax would go to a splitter. My installer chose the splitter to match the decibal level of the output from the ONT (ONTs have a hot output and some attenuation is sometimes needed). For my installation, that was an 8 way splitter even though four of the outputs are terminated.

3. No. Just one cable to the HDTivo. For my installation I have one coax cable going to my Series 3, one cable to the Actiontec router (needed for some of the TV functions) and one cable to a standard STB is a secondary room. You will also need to run an Ethernet to the HDTivo or use WiFi (the preference is Ethernet).


----------



## Raphael

I am currently a DirectTV user with the HR10 unit.

I have FIOS for internet and phone. 3 questions:

1. For the FIOS TV what additional cables need to be run from the ONT to inside the house? Is this coax cable and if so how many?
If you already have FIOS Internet then no new cables are needed. The do hook some sort of box up to an ethernet connection to help control FIOS-OnDemand.

2. Once in the house, how does the distribution work? Does the cable from the ONT come into some type of splitter/multiswitch and how many ports does the splitter/multiswitch have?
They just connect the ONT to your existing TV distribution cables. So they'll disconnect the coax running from DTV and connect it to the ONT.

3. I assume that the cable between the splitter/multiswitch is coax. If I am going to use 2 cablecards in the Tivo, I assume I need 2 coax cables (like I do now for the 2 DirectTV tuners)
Just need one coax into the TIVO. The 2 Cablecards can split the signal.


----------



## gages97

Raphael,

Currently there is ethernet, phone, and the ups cabels coming from the ONT. I don't need anything else coming from the outside for TV?

DirecTV uses a multiswitch which is not a simple spliier/amplifier, sounds like FIOS needs a simple cable distribution spliter.

You sure about #3?


Steve


----------



## mamosley

Raphael said:


> I am currently a DirectTV user with the HR10 unit.
> 
> I have FIOS for internet and phone. 3 questions:
> 
> 1. For the FIOS TV what additional cables need to be run from the ONT to inside the house? Is this coax cable and if so how many?
> If you already have FIOS Internet then no new cables are needed. The do hook some sort of box up to an ethernet connection to help control FIOS-OnDemand. Depends on the ont. Some ont's are configured with internet running over cat 5 to the router then you still have the coax for the video. Some onts are running the video and cat 5 over coax.
> 
> 2. Once in the house, how does the distribution work? Does the cable from the ONT come into some type of splitter/multiswitch and how many ports does the splitter/multiswitch have?
> They just connect the ONT to your existing TV distribution cables. So they'll disconnect the coax running from DTV and connect it to the ONT. Fios doesnt need the the distribution block that satellite providers need. One coax from ont to a splitter that feeds all the rooms.
> 
> 3. I assume that the cable between the splitter/multiswitch is coax. If I am going to use 2 cablecards in the Tivo, I assume I need 2 coax cables (like I do now for the 2 DirectTV tuners)
> Just need one coax into the TIVO. The 2 Cablecards can split the signal.


 2 Cable cards, one coax cable. If you have the actiontec router and only a coax cable for your internet currently if you get fios tv to replace direct tv the same coax gets connected to the splitter that feeds all the rooms. In most instances the satellite distribution block get replaced with a splitter.


----------



## gages97

Right now I have Cat5 from the ONT into the ActionTec router. Sounds like I will need to run a single coax from the ONT to the inside of the house.

In this case, does the Coax replace the Cat5?


----------



## acvthree

No. The coax does not replace the Cat5. It could be done that way, but you should tell the installer not to do that. 

You will have two cables from the ONT, one Ethernet and one CoAx.

The Coax is then split to go to the various TVs, HDTivos and one connection back to the Actiontec.

The actiontec will send a message back to the headend over the Ethernet for VOD requests.

Al


----------



## gages97

Got it.

So Coax from ONT to a splitter in the house with a connection to ActionTec coax port and then the Tivo's with the cablecards?

What programming has to happen on the AxtionTec?

Currently I have 2 x coax from my wiring panels to each room. Does each cablecard take a separate coax feed?


----------



## mamosley

acvthree said:


> No. The coax does not replace the Cat5. It could be done that way, but you should tell the installer not to do that.
> 
> You will have two cables from the ONT, one Ethernet and one CoAx.
> 
> The Coax is then split to go to the various TVs, HDTivos and one connection back to the Actiontec.
> 
> The actiontec will send a message back to the headend over the Ethernet for VOD requests.
> 
> Al


It depends on the ont. Newer ont's are configured and provisioned for moca. which means your internet and tv signal are running over the coax to the ont. Yes you can request the ethernet port be turned on for data but then you have to convince the field tech to run the cat 5 for you and if its not on the order he has every right to say no. Then you have to speak with billing and ask for a data jack install which there is a charge for and at that point they will make the ethernet port active. Besides, coax has more bandwidth than ethernet and me personally I would rather deal with one less wire and like to have the ability to simply move the router from coax outlet to another when I re-arrange furniture.


----------



## mamosley

gages97 said:


> Got it.
> 
> So Coax from ONT to a splitter in the house with a connection to ActionTec coax port and then the Tivo's with the cablecards?
> 
> What programming has to happen on the AxtionTec?
> 
> Currently I have 2 x coax from my wiring panels to each room. Does each cablecard take a separate coax feed?


Fios doesnt use rf return like cable companies do. The stb's send the request over ip traffic thru the coax. You dont have to 'program' the Actiontec. It is good to go out of the box. Your tivo with two cable cards needs only one coax cable. period.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

mamosley said:


> It depends on the ont. Newer ont's are configured and provisioned for moca. ...


This is how my friend's install was done (private house). I wonder how they will be doing the install in my co-op? Currently they are discussing molding for the install...

If they put an ONT, that handles more than one "household", in the hallway, next to the cable boxes, they could install power outlets, run coax to each apt, and we would get internet and TV via coax. Phone would remain on the already installed POTS lines.

The scenario above would be the easiest setup for the residents, as no one in the building has electricity in the closet where the POTS lines run from the riser in the meter room. This closet is probably where they would mount the ONT as they could just tap into the in-wall phone lines. I don't see anyone installing an outlet in the closet, and running an extension cord is not a viable option.

I wonder what they will do


----------



## acvthree

mamosley said:


> It depends on the ont. Newer ont's are configured and provisioned for moca. which means your internet and tv signal are running over the coax to the ont. Yes you can request the ethernet port be turned on for data but then you have to convince the field tech to run the cat 5 for you and if its not on the order he has every right to say no. Then you have to speak with billing and ask for a data jack install which there is a charge for and at that point they will make the ethernet port active. Besides, coax has more bandwidth than ethernet and me personally I would rather deal with one less wire and like to have the ability to simply move the router from coax outlet to another when I re-arrange furniture.


Yes, but he currently has Ethernet.

There have been long discussions on this. There is some minor latency benefit to having both Ethernet and Coax.

Either way, the installer would use the existing Ethernet if requested.

Al


----------



## acvthree

gages97 said:


> Got it.
> 
> So Coax from ONT to a splitter in the house with a connection to ActionTec coax port and then the Tivo's with the cablecards?
> 
> What programming has to happen on the AxtionTec?
> 
> Currently I have 2 x coax from my wiring panels to each room. Does each cablecard take a separate coax feed?


Unless you have specifically turned off the coax networking, no changes would be needed on the Actiontec.

You only need one coax to the HDTivo. The HDTivo splits the signal to both tuners internally. The cablecards are just for decyption on each tuner. If you are lucky and get the M-card (multi-stream card) you will only need one card.

Al


----------



## mamosley

DCIFRTHS said:


> This is how my friend's install was done (private house). I wonder how they will be doing the install in my co-op? Currently they are discussing molding for the install...
> 
> If they put an ONT, that handles more than one "household", in the hallway, next to the cable boxes, they could install power outlets, run coax to each apt, and we would get internet and TV via coax. Phone would remain on the already installed POTS lines.
> 
> The scenario above would be the easiest setup for the residents, as no one in the building has electricity in the closet where the POTS lines run from the riser in the meter room. This closet is probably where they would mount the ONT as they could just tap into the in-wall phone lines. I don't see anyone installing an outlet in the closet, and running an extension cord is not a viable option.
> 
> I wonder what they will do


In your type of situation there is an mdu (multiple dwelling unit) ont that goes where the main telco close is. More than likely the molding is for the coax for tv. Pots lines still connect from your dwelling to the mdu in the telco closed. More than likely the internet will be vdsl so you will have a zyxel modem connected to a phone line and the actiontec connected to that.


----------



## mamosley

acvthree said:


> Yes, but he currently has Ethernet.
> 
> There have been long discussions on this. There is some minor latency benefit to having both Ethernet and Coax.
> 
> Either way, the installer would use the existing Ethernet if requested.
> 
> Al


Depends on the field tech if he is willing to run cat5 with out the data outlet install on the order whether he will connect the internet or not (for new installs)


----------



## acvthree

I suppose, but this is not a new order. The Ethernet (data) is already there.

Are you saying that if the data install is not on the order, that the installer will removed the existing Ethernet and install coax?

That doesn't make sense. It would be more work for the installer.

Al


----------



## acvthree

And, then again, why would I assume anything would make sense. Sorry. Brain lock.

Al


----------



## AbMagFab

mamosley said:


> Depends on the field tech if he is willing to run cat5 with out the data outlet install on the order whether he will connect the internet or not (for new installs)


Make it easy for him. Give him an ethernet jack and tell him you just need it plugged in "there". That's what I did.

The FIOS techs so far have been much better than any other tech I've seen (e.g. Comcast, DirecTV). They seem knowledgable, flexible, and they seem to care about getting things done right. (Okay, all but one, but I've had 6 out so far for various reasons, so that's a pretty good record.)


----------



## mamosley

acvthree said:


> I suppose, but this is not a new order. The Ethernet (data) is already there.
> 
> Are you saying that if the data install is not on the order, that the installer will removed the existing Ethernet and install coax?
> 
> That doesn't make sense. It would be more work for the installer.
> 
> Al


No, they wont remove the existing run. Sorry I didnt explain myself. On a new install, if its set up for moca depending on the tech the wont run cat 5 just because you ask them, some will most wont. At that point is when the cx would have to call billing and ask for a data jack install if you dont want to run internet over coax.


----------



## acvthree

Mamosley,

That is definitely consistent with what I've read and experienced.

Just as AbMagFab said, I've found the techs (and for me also with the exception of just one guy, I wonder if it was the same guy) at Verizon to be some of the best I've worked with. For me, my install was before the networking over coax change, but he looked at the cat5 wiring I had already done and seemed to be trying to do an equivalent job. I thought it was an excelent and very clean installation.

As always, mileage may vary.

Al


----------



## DCIFRTHS

mamosley said:


> In your type of situation there is an mdu (multiple dwelling unit) ont that goes where the main telco close is. More than likely the molding is for the coax for tv. Pots lines still connect from your dwelling to the mdu in the telco closed. More than likely the internet will be vdsl so you will have a zyxel modem connected to a phone line and the actiontec connected to that.


I have seen pictures of VDSL installations, and that is definitely one way for them to do it. The building down the block from me got this type of installation (fiber into each unit), my building is larger with about 250 units. It probably makes the most sense, financially, to use VDSL.

Last time I checked, VDSL was not as fast as the MOCA implementations. Is this still the case?

If they use VDSL, is it true that the only copper involved is from the riser in the basement to my unit?

My board is keeping everyone in the dark on the negotiations 

Thanks!


----------



## bdraw

I already had a CAT5 ran from where the ONT is, but the installer refused to use it. He said they don't do it like that anymore and used a router with a coax input. It works great, but I did think it was odd, that they wouldn't use the existing cat5 cable.


----------



## acvthree

acvthree said:


> And, then again, why would I assume anything would make sense. Sorry. Brain lock.
> 
> Al


Like I said...

Al


----------



## mamosley

bdraw said:


> I already had a CAT5 ran from where the ONT is, but the installer refused to use it. He said they don't do it like that anymore and used a router with a coax input. It works great, but I did think it was odd, that they wouldn't use the existing cat5 cable.


Probably because he would have to make a call to some body and have them enable the ethernet port on the ont. Also jut by chance if you happened to have some problems with the service soon after you were installed, whether it had to do with your cat5 or not and you put in a trouble ticket it goes against the tech that did the install.


----------



## aaronwt

mamosley said:


> Probably because he would have to make a call to some body and have them enable the ethernet port on the ont. Also jut by chance if you happened to have some problems with the service soon after you were installed, whether it had to do with your cat5 or not and you put in a trouble ticket it goes against the tech that did the install.


It only took my tech a couple of minutes on the phone to change my ONT from coax to cat5. It was supposed to be set for cat5 anyway since that is what I requested when I signed up. It's definitely better using my own router instead of the actiontec. I just plug the actiontec into one of the ports on my router and the STB still works fine for VOD and the widgets.


----------



## acvthree

Some people have reported connecting the Ethernet themselves and calling in to have the ONT configured properly.

Al


----------



## wmcbrine

Prior to 9.1, there was one (national) channel on Fios that still didn't work right with the Series 3: channel 313, GolTV. There was sound, but no picture. With 9.1, it finally works. :up:

(I say "national" in case someone, somewhere, has problems on a local channel via Fios; I don't.)


----------



## bdraw

I finally heard back from Verizon's press relations about M-Card availability.


> We will definitely offer the M-card, beginning sometime next year.


To which I asked why; technological or business reasons? And unfortunately they weren't wiling to share this with me.

So yeah, I'm not very impressed with their PR department, but hey at least they responded.


----------



## denm316

So I have an od pixelation issue. I have had my Series 3 box for about 3 weeks with no problems at all. It seems that all of a sudden SD channels are starting to pixelate, channels like A&E and Comedy Central are barley watchable. All HD channels are working fine with no pixelation at all.

Any recommendations on this, it seemed through most of what I read that most people get pixelation on the HD channels. I am in the Bucks County, PA area, right outside of Philly.

Thanks For The Help,
-Dennis


----------



## jimf

We got FIOS about a week ago and it appeared to be working fine when the tech left. A day? two days? later some channels weren't tuning. Figuring it could just be the Tivo S3 being picky about having swapped from Comcast to FIOS I rebooted it. Stations seemed to tune just fine.

For a couple of days. Then some stopped working again.

We just ran a sweep of all of the channels and all the analog channels work, all the digital broadcast channels work, but none of the digital cable channels work. This is true of both tuners. The non-Tivo boxes in the house aren't having any trouble. The S3 worked flawlessly for a year on Comcast.

My question is: Has anyone heard of this kind of failure? I have no idea if this is a FIOS issue or a Tivo issue.

Thanks for any help,

jim frost


----------



## 21364guy

I just received and activated my TiVoHD today. I called verizon to find out about cable cards. The rep on the phone offered an option to ship the cards to me rather than having a truck come out so I took them up on the offer. Has anyone else gone this way with fios? In reading the posts here it seems like everyone has dealt with an installer. This is in Howard County, Maryland.


----------



## aaronwt

I was told specifically that they can't do that. Although even with an installer it's much easier than with Comcast. With FIOS the installer just enters the info on their notebook PC to activated the cable cards which makes it rather quick. With Comcast they had to yell the info over the phone several times until they entered the proper info. Then you had to wait and if it didn't work they had to call back again which took more time. The FIOS way was much more efficient.


----------



## winter

21364guy said:


> I just received and activated my TiVoHD today. I called verizon to find out about cable cards. The rep on the phone offered an option to ship the cards to me rather than having a truck come out so I took them up on the offer. Has anyone else gone this way with fios? In reading the posts here it seems like everyone has dealt with an installer. This is in Howard County, Maryland.


I have heard of cases where FIOS customers were offered this option and then later it turns out the CSR was confused and they required a truck roll to install them.

Please let us know if they really do send the cablecards for a self-install; it would be a major improvement over the current situation.


----------



## 21364guy

winter said:


> I have heard of cases where FIOS customers were offered this option and then later it turns out the CSR was confused and they required a truck roll to install them.


You got it exactly right. My wife called today to check on our order... after being on hold for quite a while they told her no self-install was possible. They called back later (after figuring out where our first cablecard order went?) and offered an install tomorrow afternoon. So hopefully we'll be up and running tomorrow


----------



## twilleyj

21364guy said:


> You got it exactly right. My wife called today to check on our order... after being on hold for quite a while they told her no self-install was possible. They called back later (after figuring out where our first cablecard order went?) and offered an install tomorrow afternoon. So hopefully we'll be up and running tomorrow


Is Verizon charging you an install fee?!


----------



## dswartz

verizon does not do self-installs. $25 for a tech visit...


----------



## jgarman

I have a tech out here NOW (I'm in Northern VA) and he is swearing up and down that FiOS is "INCOMPATIBLE" with TiVO!! He has compared the fact that I have seen so many people "on the internet" who "have this working" to the Weekly World News publishing pictures of Bigfoot! (the implication being of course that NONE of you have actually made this work!) So what magic words do I need to say to this guy to just leave the CableCards with me and try it myself?? Who should I call at Verizon/TiVO to help this process along? Help!


----------



## bdraw

Tell him it's a CableLabs certified device, which means he has no choice but to install them. Tell him you will file a complaint with the FCC.

Tell him you will give him the 4 numbers he needs to activate it in his system. One number is on the back of the CableCARD and the other three on on the CableCARD screen.

If all else fails, tell him you'll give him $20 for at least trying. Sucks, but it works.


----------



## jgarman

aaronwt said:


> I was told specifically that they can't do that. Although even with an installer it's much easier than with Comcast. With FIOS the installer just enters the info on their notebook PC to activated the cable cards which makes it rather quick. With Comcast they had to yell the info over the phone several times until they entered the proper info. Then you had to wait and if it didn't work they had to call back again which took more time. The FIOS way was much more efficient.


Does anyone have more information on what the installer has to enter into his laptop to make the CableCards work? I have a feeling that unless I tell him exactly what to do he will not be willing to help me at all. Thanks!


----------



## TheBar1

Try this from a post on Page 3 of this thread. It's a little old, but may help get you going while I try some more powerful Google-Fu...



Ilene said:


> This is a continuation of my previous thread. The entire process of rewiring for telephone, internet and cable took about 7 hours. It took nearly 2 hours to get the cablecards to work. I had printed out an article that another forum member recommended: http://techdigs.net/content/view/46/42. While it is very Comcast focused, we were able to glean enough info to help. It would have been nice if the instructions that TiVo says to hand to the installer was actually complete, but it really wasn't.
> 
> Hopefully this will help:
> 1) Ask for the cablecards and *write down * the Serial Number (SN) and the UnitAddress (UA) that is on each of the cards. Your installer will need to repeat the numbers over and over.
> 2) Make note of which one you put in the bottom slot, this cablecard 1.
> 3) When you put the card in the bottom slot, a screen will show up with the card in green. I waited several minutes just staring at this screen and nothing happened. There is an option for Configure Card 1, so I decided to select it.
> 4) A black screen with white information shows up. This is the MMI screen that TiVo has a picture of in their instructions. According to the info in the techdig article, the HOST and DATA numbers are critical.
> 5) The tech will need to provide the Host and Data info to the guy on the phone. It will take that person several tries to type the long string of numbers and letters.
> 6) Because they could not do one and then the other, I had to put CC2 in before we finished with CC1.
> 7) The screen pops up showing 2 CCs in green and there is a new option for Configure CC2. We waited a few minutes before I selected the Configure CC2. The HOST and DATA information are unique for each CC.
> 8) It appeared that the person on the phone had a lot of trouble keeping the information straight between the 2 cards. He kept mixing the Host and Data information between the 2 different serial numbers. Since I couldn't see the screen he had to enter this into, I can't comment on why this was so difficult.
> 9) I can tell you that they had to reenter this information many times. I heard that they were getting an error message, but I could not find out what the message was. The TiVo Config screens time out, so I had to go through the TiVo Central menu many times to get back to the CC screens.
> 10) When they are successful, TiVo will automatically go to the Test Channel screen. For me this happened to CC1. All of the sudden the TV station it is testing appears in the background. We told them to stop messing with it because whatever they did, it was working.
> 11) We asked them to do whatever, to the second card. They did and the TiVo screen changed to the Test Channel screen automatically.
> 
> I am up and running. So far everything is working the way it is supposed to although I have a ton of rehooking and unhooking to do.


----------



## TheBar1

Also, have you already checked here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=363797


----------



## dswartz

Dunno what to tell you. He is required by fcc regulations to install them. I don't care what he claims about "not supported". they are!


----------



## jgarman

I just have to vent... my FiOS tech just stormed out my door to find another CableCard... even though I had explicitly asked for TWO CableCards when I ordered the service, he decided that he would only bring ONE with him. I am on hold with TiVO HD support right now to find a technician who can talk this guy through the process. He has spent at least 20 minutes arguing with me about how they do not support TiVO, that it will not work, and that this is absolutely hopeless (not to mention the comparison of people posting that FiOS and TiVO work to those who post pictures of Bigfoot online!)

I am at my wits end... hopefully this will end well, but at this point the installer is taking it as a personal affront that I am asking him to install some CableCards. Geez!

BTW- I just wanted to thank all you guys for your wonderful postings, your help that you've provided me so far, and your kind words. I couldn't do this without you. I certainly feel for TiVO if this is how cable operators treat people who are just trying to use technology that is MANDATED by the federal government... no wonder the FCC had to step in...


----------



## acej80

Man, I'd call this guys supervisor, and tell her/him that you do not want this guy in your house, and they need to send a competent installer. There is no reason at all that you should have to go thru something like that to get a system installed and working properly.


----------



## jgarman

acej80 said:


> Man, I'd call this guys supervisor, and tell her/him that you do not want this guy in your house, and they need to send a competent installer. There is no reason at all that you should have to go thru something like that to get a system installed and working properly.


He claims that he was on the phone with his supervisor three times already, and the supervisor claims the same thing: FiOS no worky with TiVO... so I don't trust him to give me a good number for his supervisor. I thought about calling Verizon FiOS support, but 1) last time I called I gave up after being on hold for 70 minutes, and 2) I had to practically pull teeth when ordering the CableCards in the first place. I don't see them being all that supportive.... perhaps it's time to vote with my feet, and I haven't even had the service for more than an hour at this point.


----------



## jgarman

Well, my story does have a happy ending. Once I finally got the FiOS tech back in my house with two cablecards, it all worked on the first try. Excellent! It took all of about 20 minutes, and that's mostly because he insisted on checking the numbers on the cards about five times each and inserting/removing the cards from the TiVO several times to boot. But once he gave the numbers to the Verizon guy on the phone who activates the CableCards (who by the way was very knowledgeable about Series 3 TiVOs) it all worked without a hitch.

Thanks again to everyone. I cannot believe the hassle that he put me through, but in the end he actually admitted that he would be happy to install CableCards into more TiVOs! TiVO: 1 FiOS: well... so far i'm happy...


----------



## 21364guy

jgarman said:


> Well, my story does have a happy ending. Once I finally got the FiOS tech back in my house with two cablecards, it all worked on the first try. Excellent! It took all of about 20 minutes, and that's mostly because he insisted on checking the numbers on the cards about five times each and inserting/removing the cards from the TiVO several times to boot. But once he gave the numbers to the Verizon guy on the phone who activates the CableCards (who by the way was very knowledgeable about Series 3 TiVOs) it all worked without a hitch.
> 
> Thanks again to everyone. I cannot believe the hassle that he put me through, but in the end he actually admitted that he would be happy to install CableCards into more TiVOs! TiVO: 1 FiOS: well... so far i'm happy...


Glad it worked for you. I'm sitting here waiting for my verizon tech to show (3-7PM they say) and hoping it will be nothing like the hassle you experienced.


----------



## 21364guy

Hmmm... so here's a summary of my attempt to get cablecard from verizon:

1. Call on Monday, CSR offers me a "self-install" for $4.99.
2. Wife calls on Thursday to check the status of our order and is told no "self-install" option is possible. They call her back and offer an install on Friday, 3-7PM
3. I leave the office early on Friday... at 6:30 I call them to find out if they're coming. Nope, and they never contacted me to reschedule. The CSR says he's putting this all on our ticket and supervisor should call to see what they can do for us.

I think TiVo could be in trouble with their cablecard strategy if it's this much trouble for everyone to actually get service (i.e. due to the ineptitude of the service providers). So at this point I have no idea when we'll get digital and HD service


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## bdraw

The strategy has to work it's the only option they have, we just have to keep the FCC informed of the cable co's feet dragging.


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## gages97

I have read that you can add a Motorola NIM100 box in line with the coax cable from the splitter and run Ethernet over MOCA. 

This would be an easy eay of getting a 100Mb/s connection to each Tivo without having to run a cable.

Anyone done this?


----------



## 21364guy

So I've had two techs at my house for over three hours now. Both s-cards are in the TiVo and they don't work. They are motorola cards and in conditional access we see:

connected: yes
enabledbyCP: no
Auth: unknown
Host Validation: Unknown 00

They've been on the phone having their techs enable the cards several times, but nothing much happens. We have seen the error 161-4 a few times. Any ideas on where to go???


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## bkdtv

gages97 said:


> I have read that you can add a Motorola NIM100 box in line with the coax cable from the splitter and run Ethernet over MOCA.
> 
> This would be an easy eay of getting a 100Mb/s connection to each Tivo without having to run a cable.
> 
> Anyone done this?


Yes. I've had that setup for awhile.


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## CrispyCritter

161-4 is a "good" error. You'll often get it on good setups, indicating that communication exists with the CableCard, but that you don't yet have full communication to the head end. You can ignore it - it's positive in that it indicates the cablecard is not dead, like 161-1 would. Don't worry about Host Validation yet, for some folks (like me) it remains "Unknown" (it indicates proper pairing and some franchises don't do that). The enabledbyCP should be "yes", and Auth should be something else (I've forgotten).


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## 21364guy

Do folks know if the fios installer needs the CableCARD(tm) number or the Unit Address? I think we've been using the former could that be why things are failing?


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## 21364guy

HD at last  I had pretty much given up hope but after switching to new cards and going thru Guided Setup from the start, everything worked. This has to be about the most frustrating installation I've ever experienced. Total time at my house was over 6 hours... just to install two cablecards!


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## lennier

21364guy said:


> Do folks know if the fios installer needs the CableCARD(tm) number or the Unit Address? I think we've been using the former could that be why things are failing?


Take him to the Cablecard Pairing screen. He'll need the Host and Data numbers for each cablecard.

I just had Verizon in to install mine. The tech had no idea what to do, as it was his first cablecard install. I had all the instructions handy so it went pretty quickly.
We were worried at the 161-4 error, but found out that was a non-issue pretty quickly.

The verizon guy was very impressed with the tivo, and hung around until I restarted guided setup, so he could see how it worked.


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## gages97

My installer claimed that you could not insert cards with the Tivo on so he made me turn it off. Insert card1 program, off, then card 2. No matter this worked.

Key is to have patience. After the card is in it takes a good 2-4 minutes for the card info to come up. Then when you go to test channels again a good 2-4 minutes for the test channel to come up. You don't have to do anything it just pops up.

My guy had a laptop which I conencted to my wireless lan. He was able to activate the cards from a program on his laptop (via the verizon vpn), so no calls required.

BTW, I got the NIM100 box working. Plug in the coax cable from the splitter in the basement (the one that normally goes right into the Tivo) into the NIM100, connect the out cable from the NIM100 to the Tivo, and the ethernet port of the Tivo to the NIM100. I now have 100Mb/s ethernet running over moca!


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## mamosley

gages97 said:


> BTW, I got the NIM100 box working. Plug in the coax cable from the splitter in the basement (the one that normally goes right into the Tivo) into the NIM100, connect the out cable from the NIM100 to the Tivo, and the ethernet port of the Tivo to the NIM100. I now have 100Mb/s ethernet running over moca!


That's what the nim is, an ethernet to coax bridge.


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## aaronwt

I just had four new cable cards activated and two moved from a TiVoHD to a Series 3. It went rather quick. The tech was only there an hour to set up the 6 cable cards. It is definitely faster than Comcast since the FIOS tech just enters the info on their laptop while Comcast has to repeatedly yell the info on the phone several times until they get it right.
So now I have 8 cable cards with FIOS plus an HD STB. I wonder what will happen to my bill?


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## gages97

I know this is off topic, but now that my series 3 is running on FIOS, I am going to dump the rest of my DirecTV stuff. If you read the S3 rebate carefully, you are only entitled to 2 rebates per household. So, I will end up with a mix of S3s and HDs. 

Any major differences between the S3 and HD aside from mrv transfer speed?


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## aaronwt

No. Not really.


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## doconeill

Just got two TivoHDs hooked up. No real problems, although after getting the CableCards initialized and then authorized, when I went to Test Channels, it seems to confuse the TiVo - the backgrounds went away, and then I couldn't get the channels to come up again. I restarted both, and everything looks fine.

Even the Conditional Access screen didn't show authorization at first. Right now, one TiVo has EnabledByCP on both, but Auth: MISSING_PROGRAM_REKEY on one of them, the other SUCCEEDED.

On the other, one is SUCCEEDED, and the other still says "unknown" (and EnabledByCP is still No), but both tuners are working fine.

I'm still sorting out my home network as I got a STB for a third TV, and needed to set up the Actiontec router in line with my modified Linksys router.


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## cougfan

Can I expect any issues moving from two DirecTv HR10s to two Tivo HDs using cable cards?  

Assuming the cable card install goes well, do I need anything else at the TV end that I don't already have? I've already got two cable runs at each tv running from my telecom box in the garage. 

One TV has a Cat5e jack next to it, but the other does not. Do my Tivo HDs need a cat5 connection with FIOS?

Lastly, does FIOS typically charge a monthly fee for the cable cards?

Thanks for the help.


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## acvthree

It should go smoothly.

You'll need (want) to have some kind of network connection. Wireless or Ethernet over power line will work just fine.

The cards are $2.95 a month each. You'll need two S-cards or one M-card.

Al


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## Marc

doconeill said:


> Even the Conditional Access screen didn't show authorization at first. Right now, one TiVo has EnabledByCP on both, but Auth: MISSING_PROGRAM_REKEY on one of them, the other SUCCEEDED.


I had a similar problem with my setup today. One CableCARD showed the MISSING_PROGRAM_REKEY message, while the other showed SUBSCRIBED. On the SUBSCRIBED one, I could tune to all of the subscribed channels, while the other CableCARD was limited to channels 2-49.

I called Verizon and they reactivated all of my cards. Once that was done, all four cards in two TiVo HDs reported SUBSCRIBED.

The process took about half an hour, mostly because activating the CableCARDs in a TiVo was new to the guy on the phone and he had to seek assistance from someone else. All in all, getting it fixed was handled relatively smoothly.


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## gages97

I just migrated from Direct TV to FIOS. You only need 1 coax cable per Tivo. Verizon will install a passive splitter at the inside installation location. One coax cable will go to the actiontec router. The other available coax ports connect to your stbs or tivos.

Installing the 2 x Cablecards will get you dual tuners. You will want an ethernet connection.


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## dslunceford

acvthree said:


> You'll need (want) to have some kind of network connection. Wireless or Ethernet over power line will work just fine.
> 
> Al


Given the TV is running through the same ONT as the Internet for a FiOS install, is there not a way to splice the Coax to run your network/Ethernet connection? Or if you don't have cat-5 already wired, is PowerLine or Wireless the best bet?


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## dslunceford

I think I found my answer in the MRV sticky discussion in this forum:



> Coax networking (known as MoCA)
> 
> This is a popular solution among Verizon FiOS customers. Verizon already supplies every customer with an Actiontec router that supports 100Mbps networking over the coax cable in (or outside) the home. You simply add one Motorola NIM100 adapter for each TiVo. These adapters are periodically found on ebay for $30-$60/ea. Up to seven NIM100s can be used to provide 100Mbps ethernet connections wherever you have coax cable.
> 
> You split the your coax prior to the TiVo, with one coax feed going to the TiVo and the other coax feed going to a NIM100. The NIM100 has a 100Mbps ethernet port, which you connect to the 100Mbps port on the TiVo with ethernet cable. The adapters configure themselves, so there is nothing else you have to do.


There are only five of these on eBay right now and all at around $60+ shipped. The TiVo wireless G is $39 shipped, and powerline is around $64 for a pair (Same Actiontec tivo.com sells @ amazon after rebate)

So at best, to hook up three TiVos I'd be looking at:
$210 for 3 NIM 100s (100 Mbps); includes $30 ethernet to usb adapter for S2 box
$158 for the Powerline (85 Mbps); includes $30 ethernet to usb adapter for S2 box
$117 for the Wireless (54 mbps)

I think I'll stick with wireless for the time being, especially as the TiVo G adapters seem to be holding their price well on eBay


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## drhump

this moca thing hp intriguing. Can you throw a switch on one of these adapters to have more than one port? What kind of TTG speed improvements have you guys seen?


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## bkdtv

drhump said:


> this moca thing hp intriguing. Can you throw a switch on one of these adapters to have more than one port? What kind of TTG speed improvements have you guys seen?


Under typical conditions, TivoToGo is CPU limited to around 8Mbps on the TivoHD and 15Mbps on the Series3. TiVo has said they are looking to improve TTG performance on the TivoHD, but I wouldn't expect a miraculous improvement.

Coax networking (MoCA) makes the biggest difference for MRV. With MRV, one Series3 can transfer a recording to another Series3 at up to 44Mbps. Throughput with the 802.11g wireless adapter maxes out at around 15Mbps, and 10Mbps or less if you have don't have a good wireless signal. In contrast, MoCA delivers real-world throughput of 100Mbps, more than fast enough to support 44Mbps MRV with a Series3.

I was lucky enough to get my NIM100s for about $30-35/ea before the increase in demand.


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## dslunceford

bkdtv said:


> I was lucky enough to get my NIM100s for about $30-35/ea before the increase in demand.


Is eBay pretty much the only place for these, or is there another retail source?


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## TexasAg

dslunceford said:


> Is eBay pretty much the only place for these, or is there another retail source?


As far as I know, there is no retail source.

I'm more interested in why the guy selling one of them on Ebay calls it a "Verizon" NIM. The equipment for Fios service all belongs to Verizon.


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## dslunceford

21364guy said:


> I just received and activated my TiVoHD today. I called verizon to find out about cable cards. The rep on the phone offered an option to ship the cards to me rather than having a truck come out so I took them up on the offer. Has anyone else gone this way with fios? In reading the posts here it seems like everyone has dealt with an installer. This is in Howard County, Maryland.


When I placed my order with FiOS for TV, I was dealing with their Executive Support team (had other issues with my service), and the person taking my order mentioned that they were starting up a process to mail out CC for self-install. I'm also in the DC metro area. Frankly, I think you could be better off, as long as the phone or PC support they have to register the cc numbers goes smoothly...


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## Dick Kalagher

Another reason to get a NIM100 is that if your Actiontec router ever goes on the blink, you could use a NIM100 and another router to keep the internet going until you got a replacement. (Assuming the Actiontec is connected to the ONT via coax.)


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## acvthree

Dick Kalagher said:


> Another reason to get a NIM100 is that if your Actiontec router ever goes on the blink, you could use a NIM100 and another router to keep the internet going until you got a replacement. (Assuming the Actiontec is connected to the ONT via coax.)


A little more complicated than that.

The NIM functionality may be in a NIM100, an ActionTec that includes a NIM or some of the newer ONTs.

The ActionTec may or may not include NIM functionality. Some are empty where the NIM components were located.

In my set up, the NIM is in the ActionTec, but that is not always the case.

Al


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## kgt12

21364guy said:


> I just received and activated my TiVoHD today. I called verizon to find out about cable cards. The rep on the phone offered an option to ship the cards to me rather than having a truck come out so I took them up on the offer. Has anyone else gone this way with fios? In reading the posts here it seems like everyone has dealt with an installer. This is in Howard County, Maryland.


Let us know if they actually mail these to you.

I'm also in Howard County, MD (amazing how many local people there are on this forum). I currently have cable, but Fios will be installed in 1.5 weeks.

I'm hoping for a smooth transaction, because my comcast experience has been anything but smooth.

Cheers.


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## wdave

kgt12 said:


> Let us know if they actually mail these to you.
> 
> I'm also in Howard County, MD (amazing how many local people there are on this forum).


We should all get together sometime. I'll even offer to host. You'll love the Fios. They showed up for my cable card install, but that's because they had to do the whole multi-hour installation process at the same time.


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## aaronwt

bkdtv said:


> Under typical conditions, TivoToGo is CPU limited to around 8Mbps on the TivoHD and 15Mbps on the Series3. TiVo has said they are looking to improve TTG performance on the TivoHD, but I wouldn't expect a miraculous improvement.
> 
> Coax networking (MoCA) makes the biggest difference for MRV. With MRV, one Series3 can transfer a recording to another Series3 at up to 44Mbps. Throughput with the 802.11g wireless adapter maxes out at around 15Mbps, and 10Mbps or less if you have don't have a good wireless signal. In contrast, MoCA delivers real-world throughput of 100Mbps, more than fast enough to support 44Mbps MRV with a Series3.
> 
> I was lucky enough to get my NIM100s for about $30-35/ea before the increase in demand.


Why would the TiVo transfer over MOCA faster than Ethernet? If the speed is CPU limited how would MOCA be faster. My S3 boxes max out at around 22 mbs and that is with it tuned to blanl channels and in standby mode. My network has no problem going over 500mbs throughput when doing transfers from multiple pCs.


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## bkdtv

aaronwt said:


> Why would the TiVo transfer over MOCA faster than Ethernet? If the speed is CPU limited how would MOCA be faster. My S3 boxes max out at around 22 mbs and that is with it tuned to blanl channels and in standby mode. My network has no problem going over 500mbs throughput when doing transfers from multiple pCs.


MoCA is just 100Mbps ethernet over coax.

MoCA is not faster than wired ethernet. I was comparing it to wireless ethernet.


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## aaronwt

Doesn't MoCA go up to 270mbs?


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## drhump

bkdtv said:


> Coax networking (MoCA) makes the biggest difference for MRV. With MRV, one Series3 can transfer a recording to another Series3 at up to 44Mbps.


nice. can i insert a switch or some such between the NIM100 and my S3?

i need at least one more port at the locations of each of my TiVo's. in fact, i just ordered some Buffalo 4-port wireless-g bridges that i was planning to implement over the next week or so.


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## bkdtv

drhump said:


> nice. can i insert a switch or some such between the NIM100 and my S3?


You certainly fan.

I have each one of my NIM100s connected to a D-Link 10/100Mbps switch. The TiVo, a Slingbox, a PS3, and a HD-DVD player are all connected to that switch.



aaronwt said:


> Doesn't MoCA go up to 270mbs?


MoCA itself can. But the ethernet jack on the Actiontec router and NIM100 is limited to 100Mbps.

One benefit of the higher throughput is that it allows Verizon to support multiple 15+Mbps HD VOD streams without slowing network traffic, even on faster Internet plans like 50/10.


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## winter

TexasAg said:


> As far as I know, there is no retail source.
> 
> I'm more interested in why the guy selling one of them on Ebay calls it a "Verizon" NIM. The equipment for Fios service all belongs to Verizon.


Not sure what you mean - VZ does not own all equipment relating to FIOS, the Actiontec router being one example.

MoCA isnt a VZ-specific standard, other manufacturers (DLink, Linksys) have announced that they will product MoCA products (that could be in used in place of the Motorola NIM) but I havent seen anything actually for sale yet.


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## TexasAg

winter said:


> Not sure what you mean - VZ does not own all equipment relating to FIOS, the Actiontec router being one example.
> 
> MoCA isnt a VZ-specific standard, other manufacturers (DLink, Linksys) have announced that they will product MoCA products (that could be in used in place of the Motorola NIM) but I havent seen anything actually for sale yet.


But I'm pretty sure no one "buys" the NIM, it belongs to Verizon. The fact that other companies might sell MoCa devices does not change the fact that this is Verizon's device.


----------



## BigHat

Well it seems that some of the N VA techs aren't enamored with S3s. When mine called he warned me that I was going to have problems with pixelization etc.

Anyway, the phone and internet went well, but I only got one of 4 cable cards to work. The Tivo keeps shifting to the CableCard error page and the 161-4 error. We couldn't even get to the pairing page on them.

Looks like I have a trouble call coming next week to get new cards. Oh well, DTV still active until this all gets resolved.

My question: The Tivo tech support page warns that some cards (s cards here) may start with a firmware update on installation that may take 40 mins. Should you remove the card during the process you will corrupt the card and render it unless. True? My tech was popping cards repeatedly. He knew of no warning against this behavior.

Any advice on how I might make this going more smoothly next time around would be appreciated. I had cut and pasted lots of the tips from this thread into a Word document and gave it to the tech, but he seemed to be on his own program.


----------



## teasip

I haven't purchased mine yet, but, doesn't the TiVo come with a one page installation guide for CC's that the installer can refer to step by step?


----------



## BigHat

teasip said:


> I haven't purchased mine yet, but, doesn't the TiVo come with a one page installation guide for CC's that the installer can refer to step by step?


It has CC info in the manual but it's not worth much in my view.


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## bkdtv

teasip said:


> I haven't purchased mine yet, but, doesn't the TiVo come with a one page installation guide for CC's that the installer can refer to step by step?


Yes, it does.

Many Verizon installers [without CableCard experience] forget to register CableCards when they pick them up from the office. No Verizon CableCards will work unless they are pre-registered in Verizon's system. This cannot be done via the computer. The rep can do it over the phone at your home, but they are supposed to do it when they pick up the cards in the first place.


----------



## BigHat

bkdtv said:


> Yes, it does.
> 
> Many Verizon installers [without CableCard experience] forget to register CableCards when they pick them up from the office. No Verizon CableCards will work unless they are pre-registered in Verizon's system. This cannot be done via the computer. The rep can do it over the phone at your home, but they are supposed to do it when they pick up the cards in the first place.


But doesn't the installer need to TIVO service number(s) in order to do it? Isn't that the issue? Pairing the card to the slot?


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## bkdtv

There are three required steps for Verizon.


 Add the serial number of each CableCard to Verizon's list of authorized devices. This cannot be done by computer from your home. This is supposed to be done by someone at the regional Verizon office, but it can also be done over the phone. If the rep at the office does not do this, everything else is just a waste of time.

CableCards will not work until they are entered into Verizon's list of authorized devices.

 Add the correct serial number for the CableCard to the customer's account using the software activation program. This is typically done on the installer's notebook from the customer's home, but it can also be done over the phone if the rep is new.

 Add the correct CableCard pairing information to the customer's account using the software activation program. This is typically done on the installer's notebook from the customer's home, but it can also be done over the phone if the rep is new.

The pairing information below is displayed about 120 seconds after a CableCard is inserted.








CableCards should be installed and activated one at a time to avoid mixing up the information for each card (Tivo's instructions are also written to avoid that). The installer should install and activate the CableCard in the main (right) slot first. After that CableCard is activated, repeat these steps for the second (left) slot.

If the installer misses any of these steps, or there is an error in any information, the CableCard will not work.

Tune to an encrypted channel you are supposed to receive, such as 825 or 826 and then go to the System Information -> CableCard.. -> Conditional Access screen. A correctly activated FiOS CableCard will appears as follows:










For each CableCard, it should say *Connected: yes, EnabledByCP: yes* and *Auth: Subscribed* on an encrypted digital cable channel.

If it doesn't say all of that, then it means your card is not authorized and will not work. If the installer already left, and the cards were not activated, you should be able to activate them over the phone by calling Fiber Solutions @ 888-553-1555; when you call, say your CableCards were not activated properly.


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## jgarman

After my horrible experience trying to convince my stubborn installer to activate and install my CableCards, I contacted Verizon Executive Service. They have made it clear to me that all techs should be trained in this procedure and that there was no excuse for the technician's actions (and they were nice enough to provide a rather significant credit). I was very impressed by their response which included calling me and emailing me the day after I sent them the letter--which happened to be a Sunday. Thanks again for your help and hopefully in the future we won't have so much trouble getting CableCards out of VZ!


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## aaronwt

BigHat said:


> Well it seems that some of the N VA techs aren't enamored with S3s. When mine called he warned me that I was going to have problems with pixelization etc.
> 
> Anyway, the phone and internet went well, but I only got one of 4 cable cards to work. The Tivo keeps shifting to the CableCard error page and the 161-4 error. We couldn't even get to the pairing page on them.
> 
> Looks like I have a trouble call coming next week to get new cards. Oh well, DTV still active until this all gets resolved.
> 
> My question: The Tivo tech support page warns that some cards (s cards here) may start with a firmware update on installation that may take 40 mins. Should you remove the card during the process you will corrupt the card and render it unless. True? My tech was popping cards repeatedly. He knew of no warning against this behavior.
> 
> Any advice on how I might make this going more smoothly next time around would be appreciated. I had cut and pasted lots of the tips from this thread into a Word document and gave it to the tech, but he seemed to be on his own program.


Don't let the installer touch the TiVo remote. You should be the only one going through the TiVo menus. This one thing makes things go much quicker. 1.5 weeks ago I had 4 new cable cards installed and two cards moved from one box to another. It only took 1 hour to complete. I placed all the boxes in one room and connected the coax from FIOS to each box before the tech arrived. I also did the guided setup for FIOS the night before(not sure if this made any difference but I did it anyway)
Then with the cable card installs we staggered them. We would stick the card in one box, then insert in the second box etc. When we got back to the first box it would be showing the info the installer needed to input in the laptop and we proceeded that way. It really sped things up. Also make sure the installer has their serial numbers written down for each cable card and the box it's going in ahead of time. This will also speed things up.
This was the first CC install in TiVos for my tech and with only me changing the menus in the TiVo and staggering the card install it really shaved alot of time off the install. Also putting all my boxes in the same room with the back of the box facing where the installer would sit helped alot too.


----------



## westcoastexport

kgt12 said:


> Let us know if they actually mail these to you.
> 
> I'm also in Howard County, MD (amazing how many local people there are on this forum). I currently have cable, but Fios will be installed in 1.5 weeks.
> 
> I'm hoping for a smooth transaction, because my comcast experience has been anything but smooth.
> 
> Cheers.


I am in Fairfax County and Verizon just said they would mail my cable card. As a neophyte with cable cards, do I need 2 cards to run tivo series 3?


----------



## wmcbrine

westcoastexport said:


> I am in Fairfax County and Verizon just said they would mail my cable card.


Nice!



> _As a neophyte with cable cards, do I need 2 cards to run tivo series 3?_


Yes.

The Tivo HD can use a single card, _if_ you can get a multistream card (good luck with that). But that doesn't work for the Series 3, yet... hopefully it will with a software upgrade, but we don't know. (I'd have expected this to be in 9.1 or 9.2, but apparently it wasn't.)


----------



## BigHat

westcoastexport said:


> I am in Fairfax County and Verizon just said they would mail my cable card. As a neophyte with cable cards, do I need 2 cards to run tivo series 3?


Wow!! This is the first I've heard of this. Please post the info that comes with the cards and how the install goes, etc. 
Normally this costs you a $25 service call. Since I'm in the middle of a screwed up install, I'll probably have to have them delivered but this process isn't rocket science when all the required prep work is done.


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## westcoastexport

BigHat said:


> Wow!! This is the first I've heard of this. Please post the info that comes with the cards and how the install goes, etc.
> Normally this costs you a $25 service call. Since I'm in the middle of a screwed up install, I'll probably have to have them delivered but this process isn't rocket science when all the required prep work is done.


Will do. However, it looks like I need them to send me the second card before I can actually install this. Based on what i've read here, I may need them out here anyway...


----------



## BigHat

westcoastexport said:


> Will do. However, it looks like I need them to send me the second card before I can actually install this. Based on what i've read here, I may need them out here anyway...


The Verizon tech calls the service center and gives him his tech ID and a bunch of other jargon to start. Certainly didn't sound like DTV activation that's customer friendly.


----------



## wmcbrine

P.S. To clarify, you can always run with a single card. It's just that it turns your Tivo into a single-tuner device (unless it's a multistream card in a Tivo HD).


----------



## aaronwt

westcoastexport said:


> I am in Fairfax County and Verizon just said they would mail my cable card. As a neophyte with cable cards, do I need 2 cards to run tivo series 3?


The two people I heard of that had this same thing happen got a call at one point and was told that a tech needs to do the install that the original service rep was wrong and there were no self installs. The techs that I talked to said that it is FIOS policy to have a technician visit for a cable card install. Besides it will also go much quicker with the tech there since they only have to enter the info in their laptop.


----------



## westcoastexport

aaronwt said:


> The two people I heard of that had this same thing happen got a call at one point and was told that a tech needs to do the install that the original service rep was wrong and there were no self installs.
> 
> Yep, you are correct. After calling to order a second card yesterday, they told me they were scheduled to come out tomorrow (today). Yikes! I don't even have the box yet. I rescheduled for 11/27. I'll post the results of the install.


----------



## drhump

does anyone know if a NIM100 will power a Power over Ethernet switch? just looking to cut a power brick out of the equation.

ohhh, and one more question... i got confused reading previous posts... do i need to split the cable and then route to both the NIM100 and the S3? or can i just run the cable to the NIM100, and the out from the NIM100 directly to the S3?


----------



## TimAtkins1

drhump said:


> does anyone know if a NIM100 will power a Power over Ethernet switch? just looking to cut a power brick out of the equation.
> 
> ohhh, and one more question... i got confused reading previous posts... do i need to split the cable and then route to both the NIM100 and the S3? or can i just run the cable to the NIM100, and the out from the NIM100 directly to the S3?


Pretty sure the answer to your first question is no.

As to the second question, you split the coax in 2. One split goes to the TiVo into the cable in jack to provide the TV signal to the TiVo. The other split goes into the NIM and then an Ethernet cable runs from the NIM100 to the Ethernet port of the TiVo. This split provides network connectivity to the TiVo.


----------



## drhump

TimAtkins1 said:


> As to the second question, you split the coax in 2. One split goes to the TiVo into the cable in jack to provide the TV signal to the TiVo. The other split goes into the NIM and then an Ethernet cable runs from the NIM100 to the Ethernet port of the TiVo. This split provides network connectivity to the TiVo.


right... but doesn't the NIM100 have a coax IN and an OUT? can i use that in lieu of a splitter?


----------



## bkdtv

drhump said:


> right... but doesn't the NIM100 have a coax IN and an OUT? can i use that in lieu of a splitter?


It does, but the NIM100 didn't work [for me] when I used the coax out.

It does work fine with a splitter.


----------



## JStew

jgarman said:


> After my horrible experience trying to convince my stubborn installer to activate and install my CableCards, I contacted Verizon Executive Service. They have made it clear to me that all techs should be trained in this procedure and that there was no excuse for the technician's actions (and they were nice enough to provide a rather significant credit). I was very impressed by their response which included calling me and emailing me the day after I sent them the letter--which happened to be a Sunday. Thanks again for your help and hopefully in the future we won't have so much trouble getting CableCards out of VZ!


I hope everything was resolved to your satisfaction. I just had two cards installed into my Series 3 and the Verizon tech never saw a Series 3 before. I handed him the card and less than 15 minutes after arriving, he was gone. I reran the quide and everything was back up to speed in less than 45 minutes, all thanks to this forum.


----------



## Fuzz

I just got a letter from Verizon stating that they are raising the cost of the cable cards by $1 starting in January. If I am reading the letter correctly, it appears that everyone who already has a card with be grandfathered in to the old price. The big question is: for how long?


----------



## bkdtv

Fuzz said:


> I just got a letter from Verizon stating that they are raising the cost of the cable cards by $1 starting in January. If I am reading the letter correctly, it appears that everyone who already has a card with be grandfathered in to the old price. The big question is: for how long?


If you are a current subscriber, you pay the old price until January 2009.

Verizon expects to have MCARDs in 1Q 2008, so if you have a TiVoHD, you can replace two CableCards with one at that time. Hopefully, TiVo will support MCARDs on the Series3 before that $1 per CableCard price increase in 2009.


----------



## bizzy

hopefully, tivo will support m cards in the s3 before 2090.


----------



## gages97

Nim100 in and out without splitter works fine for me (on 2 tivo S3s)


----------



## BigHat

Tech came yesterday and replaced the 3 bad c cards. As the units gained a pictured it was VERY pixelated. I was quite concerned.

After a short while I tried it again, and couldn't make a channel pixelate. I had got some signal reducers from the installer should I have need to drop the signal strength. My installer said he doubted it would be needed as I have a 4-way splitter in place. He also gave gave me an extra splitter to swap out if required. Any way, so far so good without any added measures.

Dropped DTV down to the "retired grandmother on Social Security" plan until football season reaches the playoffs. Boy is that an ugly package -- mostly shopping and religious channels. We'll see what happens, but the DTV rep mentioned that the HD Season Ticket will be on the new sats next year. That will mean a new dish, etc.


----------



## drhump

i bought 3 NIM 100's off of ebay. i have to say i think that is the best technology investment i have ever made. if you have FiOS and are relying on wireless to network any device that is close to a coax run, especially a TiVo, you will not regret deploying these. install was complete plug and play using the process described in previous posts (split coax, connect coax, connect ethernet, connect power, done.).

i watched a 1 hour HD show recorded off of CBS via MRV the other night. started watching immediately and was able to FFWD thru all commercials without catching the buffer. this is the way it was meant to be.

highly recommeded.

dave


----------



## Fuzz

bkdtv said:


> If you are a current subscriber, you pay the old price until January 2009.
> 
> Verizon expects to have MCARDs in 1Q 2008, so if you have a TiVoHD, you can replace two CableCards with one at that time. Hopefully, TiVo will support MCARDs on the Series3 before that $1 per CableCard price increase in 2009.


Did you notice that Verizon is raising the price of a service call, too? Do you think they'll charge us to swap out the 2 S-Cards for the M-Card?


----------



## psuzebra

So I have an appt scheduled for Wednesday to get two CableCards for my TivoHD. I just happened to check my order status online and saw that it lists "Cable Card - Honor Do Not Offer". Does anyone know what that means?


----------



## dslunceford

drhump said:


> i bought 3 NIM 100's off of ebay. i have to say i think that is the best technology investment i have ever made. if you have FiOS and are relying on wireless to network any device that is close to a coax run, especially a TiVo, you will not regret deploying these. install was complete plug and play using the process described in previous posts (split coax, connect coax, connect ethernet, connect power, done.).
> 
> i watched a 1 hour HD show recorded off of CBS via MRV the other night. started watching immediately and was able to FFWD thru all commercials without catching the buffer. this is the way it was meant to be.
> 
> highly recommeded.
> 
> dave


Agreed. I bought just two as I had already purchased a wireless unit -- the two THD boxes got the NIM, the S2 got the wireless and it all works just fine. I actually may hold off on expanding a drive in one of the HDs given how easily move shows back and forth....

So a question....if I wanted to also network in an XBox or Playstation to the NIM, I could just add a switch/hub like this, right? http://www.amazon.com/Switch-5-PORT...8?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1196098855&sr=1-8

Just plug switch/hub into output of NIM, then TiVo, Xbox, PS2 into the switch ports?


----------



## fishtank22

Just an FYI. I have VZ Fios TV and TivoHD. I have two cards in my TivoHD. It works great. Never a problem. and I am convinced that the HD quality is better than Cable (Better compression). And I never get that blocking/pixelation that you sometimes see when watching cable tv.


----------



## segadc

So do you still need to get two cards with Verizon? Did they never release that multicard one? How much is it monthly for two cards?


----------



## dslunceford

segadc said:


> So do you still need to get two cards with Verizon? Did they never release that multicard one? How much is it monthly for two cards?


Mcards were supposed to be released in Nov., but they have none as yet. Current pricing is $2.99 per card, going up to $3.99 ea. starting in January (but locked at $2.99 if you signed up for multi-year commitment).


----------



## wmcbrine

psuzebra said:


> So I have an appt scheduled for Wednesday to get two CableCards for my TivoHD. I just happened to check my order status online and saw that it lists "Cable Card - Honor Do Not Offer". Does anyone know what that means?


Hmm... It could be an instruction to their CSRs, meaning "honor requests for CableCards, but don't offer them" (i.e., don't be the one to bring them up), which would seem to reflect Verizon's actual policy -- they don't advertise CableCards anywhere that I've seen, and they're not even available via the online signup (or at least, they weren't when I did it). But I can't believe that they'd want to expose that policy on the online status page. Then again, they could've done it by mistake.

Or, you could rearrange the words as "Do Not Honor Offer". I hope that's not what it means.


----------



## JustAllie

Well.

Just called Verizon about getting CableCARDs for the new TiVoHD. (A single MCard didn't seem to be an option.) 

They are sending them to me to do a self-install. Given that I had to walk the techs through the process last time, it does seem simpler to have me do it myself. But I guess we will see what happens. 

For some reason it's going to take over two weeks to get these things. Grumble.


----------



## Joe Q

JustAllie said:


> Well.
> 
> Just called Verizon about getting CableCARDs for the new TiVoHD. (A single MCard didn't seem to be an option.)
> 
> They are sending them to me to do a self-install. Given that I had to walk the techs through the process last time, it does seem simpler to have me do it myself. But I guess we will see what happens.
> 
> For some reason it's going to take over two weeks to get these things. Grumble.


*Did you ask them if you could get the cards at their Upper Marlboro depot?*

I think you are reasonably close to there plus that depot is where they have all their stuff for the technicians that serve that area. 
I read somewhere that their service area is something like 50 miles which explains why Upper Marlboro is MY service depot.

When you call them, maybe you can ask if there is a service depot closer to you.

I know about that place and was there in September because they let me drop off my HD DVR at that location rather than coming by to pick it up which would have cost me $25.

I am pleased that they are letting you do a self install.

In September when I needed 2 cable cards for my Cable Card PC,they told me that current policy required a technician.
They told me that they were looking into changing that policy so perhaps they finally have.

Thanks to your post, I am going to call them and ask them if they do now allow self installs.
I want to put a third ATI Cable Card Tuner in my system (the price has dropped by $200) but my schedule is too full until Christmas to find time off to sit around and wait for a technician so I have to hold off until the holidays.

I suspect that they will have me go to the Upper Marlboro depot to get the card and it is only about a 25 minute trip from where I live. I am only a few minutes south of Annapolis.

Please post a reply if they let you get the cards from Upper Marlboro.
Be sure to get a few because those Cable Cards are notorious for being defective.

Joe


----------



## aaronwt

The FIOS policy for cable cards is to do a truck roll. The two people I know who were initially told they could do a self install, were later told they needed a truck roll. They didn't charge me anything when I had 4 more cable cards installed. I don't know if it was a mistake or what but so far I haven't been charged. Also with the tech there all they have to do is enter the info on their laptop to quickly get everything working. I know with Comcast it took forever getting the cards setup with the tech yelling the info over the phone several times plus waiting on hold. The FIOS way with the technicians laptop is light years ahead of the way Comcast does cable card installs.


----------



## JustAllie

Joe Q said:


> *Did you ask them if you could get the cards at their Upper Marlboro depot?*


That's, like, totally on the wrong side of DC from me. I hope they have a closer depot than that. Anyway, it doesn't matter, because the woman I was talking to was probably in Thailand or someplace like that -- she didn't seem to know much about what was going on, never heard of an MCard, yadda yadda. It sounded like they're going to ship me two cards and a mailing label, and I use the mailing label to ship the set-top box back to them at no cost to me. Sweet.

If they decide that a truck roll is needed, I guess they'll have to call me to arrange it.


----------



## sbl

dslunceford said:


> Mcards were supposed to be released in Nov., but they have none as yet. Current pricing is $2.99 per card, going up to $3.99 ea. starting in January (but locked at $2.99 if you signed up for multi-year commitment).


I'm in the process of setting up TV/internet services at a new home in So Cal and was quoted $3.99 per card. The rep couldn't answer any questions about whether Mcards were available.

Is leasing the only option for cable cards w/ Verizon FIOS?


----------



## aaronwt

The cards are very expensive. If you could buy them you would be paying several hundred dollars for each one. I'd rather pay the monthly fee. SO far though FIOS hasn't added the extra 4 cables cards I added to my bill. I have 8 cable cards with them and they are only charging me for 4.(at $2.99 each). PLus they still haven't started charging me for the HBO the tech added to my account from his laptop. I guess sometimes their crappy billing system works out in favor of the customer. I'm not in any hurry to add the extra $30 in fees from the extra cable cards an HBO. If it takes 2 to 3 billing cycles to add the double/triple play, maybe it takes that long to add other things.


----------



## wmcbrine

aaronwt said:


> Also with the tech there all they have to do is enter the info on their laptop to quickly get everything working. I know with Comcast it took forever getting the cards setup with the tech yelling the info over the phone several times plus waiting on hold. The FIOS way with the technicians laptop is light years ahead of the way Comcast does cable card installs.


For some reason, my Fios installer did _not_ use his laptop (or even bring one into the house), but called in, the old-fashioned way. And of course, he messed up a couple digits, and I had to call back later to get one of my cards activated.  But at least that was an easy call.


----------



## GoHokies!

What a great amount of information here, thanks for everyone.

I'm buying a house in Odenton, MD (Anne Arundel County) and have the FIOS install set up for 28 December. Right now it's just a basic install with one SD box, as I'm not sure I'm going to have everything in the house for the Tech to set up the cable cards and such.

It appears from reading the thread that folks are having better luck w/ pixelation on the THD than the S3. I have an S3 now and am likely going to be buying a THD for my parents for Christmas. Would it be beneficial to give my folks the S3 and keep the THD for myself, or is there not a big enough difference between the two to worry about it. Anything else that I need to keep in mind? (I'll definitely be hitting up ebay for a few NIM100's once I figure out where I'm going to want network connections, that's an awesome and unexpected side effect of FIOS!).

One month until I can tell Comcast to BUGGER OFF!!!


----------



## ah30k

GoHokies, S3 here and no pixelation problems to report in quite some time. I did have them in the beginning. I haven't checked in with this thread in a while so hopefully my post is not too far off topic.


----------



## BigHat

ah30k said:


> GoHokies, S3 here and no pixelation problems to report in quite some time. I did have them in the beginning. I haven't checked in with this thread in a while so hopefully my post is not too far off topic.


No S3 problems for me either.


----------



## westcoastexport

JohnBrowning said:


> I'm running a CableCARD in my Mitsu TV fed by VZ FIOS with no problems whatsoever. While VZ had some problems initially getting the card init'd, I think those were just familiarity issues. I'll probably order an S3 in a month or so and don't anticipate any issues with moving the CC from the TV to the S3. I expect I'll have to call VZ and have them whack the CC, but, that should be no big deal.


Just had Verizon out here to install two cards for my V3 box. 5 hours later, I only have 1 card installed. They gave my guy 3 cards total, 2 of which had already been activated at someone else's house and wouldn't work here. Although he stated that he was familiar with TiVo, I found him to lack a lot of knowledge. He tried and was very patient, but ultimately hamstrung by the previously activated cards.

Unfortunately, this will require him to come back an install the final card with no timetable to accomplish that.

During the install I called TiVo for support. The support person told me that the box I was sold (it arrived from Amazon this week) had a version of the software (8.01) that was two versions old and would require 48 hours to update. He said that I would not have service until then!! I am now trying to find programs to record and many do not even show up (30 Rock, CSI: Las Vegas). A message appears stating that the box is only currently programmed through 11/29, but based on a number of searches, that is inaccurate.

My Verizon technician made a couple of comments that I can't verify:

1. Cable cards are going to be eliminated because they are so unreliable;
2. MCards are even less reliable, only working 20% of the time.

Uncertain where this could leave us, but I doubt he had all of the facts.

I love having TiVo back, but feel that I am only part way there. I look forward to my second card and the software updates.


----------



## aaronwt

I have 8 cable cards working just fine on FIOS. They have been very reliable so far. Unfortunately it sounds like your tech is very uninformed. 
The installation of 6 cable cards recently for me only took one hour for installation.


----------



## BigHat

westcoastexport said:


> Just had Verizon out here to install two cards for my V3 box. 5 hours later, I only have 1 card installed. They gave my guy 3 cards total, 2 of which had already been activated at someone else's house and wouldn't work here. Although he stated that he was familiar with TiVo, I found him to lack a lot of knowledge. He tried and was very patient, but ultimately hamstrung by the previously activated cards.
> 
> Unfortunately, this will require him to come back an install the final card with no timetable to accomplish that.
> 
> During the install I called TiVo for support. The support person told me that the box I was sold (it arrived from Amazon this week) had a version of the software (8.01) that was two versions old and would require 48 hours to update. He said that I would not have service until then!! I am now trying to find programs to record and many do not even show up (30 Rock, CSI: Las Vegas). A message appears stating that the box is only currently programmed through 11/29, but based on a number of searches, that is inaccurate.
> 
> My Verizon technician made a couple of comments that I can't verify:
> 
> 1. Cable cards are going to be eliminated because they are so unreliable;
> 2. MCards are even less reliable, only working 20% of the time.
> 
> Uncertain where this could leave us, but I doubt he had all of the facts.
> 
> I love having TiVo back, but feel that I am only part way there. I look forward to my second card and the software updates.


Your experience is a bit like mine. It took two trips to get four cable cards working. I think the tech's training is poor in the NOVA area. As a data point, I almost had to reschedule my second appt as the tech couldn't locate replacement cards. How the hell could that be the case?

I think your tech is BSing you on the cards. They'd rather just plug in their piece of sh*t DVR, so no excitement about cable cards. The FCC will force CC use, but the cable lobbyists managed to get a break on the time line. Don't remember all the details. No idea why an M card would fair so badly either.


----------



## westcoastexport

aaronwt said:


> I have 8 cable cards working just fine on FIOS. They have been very reliable so far. Unfortunately it sounds like your tech is very uninformed.
> The installation of 6 cable cards recently for me only took one hour for installation.


My lack of knowledge re the installation surely cost me a lot of time. With his computer down (dead battery) and having to call tech support and waiting on hold (probably an hour total on hold) and the slowness of TiVo's "test channel", it was pretty grueling. Trying to activate already activated cards wasn't too helpful either.

I agree about the cards and his opinion. Verizon cuts their revenue in half by installing 2 new cards and eliminating the revenue on HD DVRs. I am sure this is why they are raising rates on CCs.


----------



## BigHat

westcoastexport said:


> My lack of knowledge re the installation surely cost me a lot of time. With his computer down (dead battery) and having to call tech support and waiting on hold (probably an hour total on hold) and the slowness of TiVo's "test channel", it was pretty grueling. Trying to activate already activated cards wasn't too helpful either.
> 
> I agree about the cards and his opinion. Verizon cuts their revenue in half by installing 2 new cards and eliminating the revenue on HD DVRs. I am sure this is why they are raising rates on CCs.


Mine showed up with a dead laptop the first time too. On the second visit I got to witness a shouting match between the tech and V rep who insisted he use the laptop as he should or use the moronic voice driven menu, automated system.


----------



## psuzebra

So I tried to get my new TiVO HD working with two CableCARDs this morning. The FIOS guy came with 5 CableCARDs in hand, he had never done a TiVo installation before but was very patient while we tried to work through some of the problems.

We first tried a CableCARD in slot 1, but we kept getting 161-4 errors over and over. So he tried another CableCARD in slot 1, same result.

He then took the CableCARD and moved it from slot 1 to slot 2. After a minute, the pairing information came up for CableCARD 2. He went ahead and initialized and activated the CableCARD through his laptop. Then we went to "Test channels" and it was stuck on the "Acquiring channel info" screen for 15 mins or so.

At this point, I called up TiVo's tech support to get some help.

First, they had us power down and restart the TiVo. After it started back up, they had us install a third CableCARD into slot 1. Still getting repeating 161-4 errors.

We then moved that third CableCARD to slot 2. Pairing info came up after a minute or two and the tech went ahead and initialized and activated the card. We went to Test channels, it showed the Acquired channel info screen for about two minutes and then we were able to see the broadcast! However, as I scanned through the channels, it became obvious that I was only getting the local channels (3-49, 810-817) and none of the cable channels.

However, of greater concern was getting a CableCARD to work in slot 1. We tried inserting the remaining two CableCARDs that he brought in slot 1 as well as the ones we already tried. They all give 161-4 errors over and over. TiVo tech support concluded that the slot was bad and is sending out a new unit.

In the meantime, did anyone else have a similar experience? Did anyone else have a defective CableCARD slot? Also, does anyone know why I was only getting local channels on the working CableCARD?


----------



## acvthree

Do you mean that you got the 161-4 each time you tried a card or over and over with the same card? From the Tivo instructions...

>>For Motorola CableCARDs, many cable providers send an activation signal that causes the DVR to issue error 161-4. This is normal and can be ignored. If you see 161-4 more than once, or if you see any other 161-x signal, it means that the card is damaged and needs to be replaced.

http://tivosupport2.instancy.com/Ti...-be94-4f14-8e2c-8ae7b4eb5249&anchor=undefined

Al


----------



## psuzebra

acvthree said:


> Do you mean that you got the 161-4 each time you tried a card or over and over with the same card? From the Tivo instructions...
> 
> >>For Motorola CableCARDs, many cable providers send an activation signal that causes the DVR to issue error 161-4. This is normal and can be ignored. If you see 161-4 more than once, or if you see any other 161-x signal, it means that the card is damaged and needs to be replaced.
> 
> http://tivosupport2.instancy.com/Ti...-be94-4f14-8e2c-8ae7b4eb5249&anchor=undefined
> 
> Al


Over and over with the same card. Over and over with all of the CableCARDs that the tech brought. Over and over in slot 1, but the same card worked in slot 2.


----------



## Peanuthead

aaronwt said:


> The FIOS policy for cable cards is to do a truck roll. *The two people I know *who were initially told they could do a self install, were later told they needed a truck roll.


Make that three people... I was told by VZ that they would send me the CableCards, then the next day they called back and said that they had to send out a tech. to install the cards.
After 3.5 hours they still could not activate either card.
It turns out that VZ had flagged the cable CARDS as cable BOXES in their system so they could never get them configured. The encryption field was showing DES (Data Encryption Standard) and according to the VZ L2 tech. this had to be changed before the cards would work. Well the next day they modified their system to show cards vs boxes and the cards started working automatically.
Very aggrevating to have to go through all of this. 
So this is something else to ask VZ, "Are my cards configured as cards vs boxes in your system"?


----------



## westcoastexport

BigHat said:


> Mine showed up with a dead laptop the first time too. On the second visit I got to witness a shouting match between the tech and V rep who insisted he use the laptop as he should or use the moronic voice driven menu, automated system.


Verizon came back tonight. The technician said he would be back after 4 pm. He showed up at 7. He put the second card in (he got the first card got working last night) and called Verizon to activate. Their system is down and they couldn't do it. I now have that responsibility tomorrow.

I have noticed in the <24 hours that I have had TiVo that non-HD channels are much grainier than the Fios box was. There wasn't any graininess in their live TV signal. Has anyone experienced this?


----------



## acvthree

Not really. Exactly the opposite in fact. The Series 3 seems to do a good job on SD signals.


----------



## bkdtv

westcoastexport said:


> U have noticed in the <24 hours that I have had TiVo that non-HD channels are much grainier than the Fios box was. There wasn't any graininess in their live TV signal. Has anyone experienced this?


Until the CableCards are activated, channels 1-50 are analog. The analog channels do not look nearly as good as the digital versions, which is what you get with the TiVoHD once the CableCards are activated.

As soon as the CableCards are activated, analog 1-50 is replaced with digital versions of 1-50.


----------



## bkdtv

_Reposted as a reminder..._

There are three required steps.


 Add the serial number of each CableCard to Verizon's list of authorized devices. This cannot be done by computer from your home. This is supposed to be done by someone at the regional Verizon office, but it can also be done over the phone. If the rep at the office does not do this, everything else is just a waste of time.

CableCards will not work until they are entered into Verizon's list of authorized devices.

 Add the correct serial number for the CableCard to the customer's account using the software activation program. This is typically done on the installer's notebook from the customer's home, but it can also be done over the phone if the rep is new.

 Add the correct CableCard pairing information to the customer's account using the software activation program. This is typically done on the installer's notebook from the customer's home, but it can also be done over the phone if the rep is new.

The pairing information below is displayed about 120 seconds after a CableCard is inserted.








CableCards should be installed and activated one at a time to avoid mixing up the information for each card (Tivo's instructions are also written to avoid that). The installer should install and activate the CableCard in the main (right) slot first. After that CableCard is activated, repeat these steps for the second (left) slot.

If the installer misses any of these steps, or there is an error in any information, the CableCard will not work.

Tune to an encrypted channel you are supposed to receive, such as 825 or 826 and then go to the System Information -> CableCard.. -> Conditional Access screen. A correctly activated FiOS CableCard will appears as follows:










For each CableCard, it should say *Connected: yes, EnabledByCP: yes* and *Auth: Subscribed* on an encrypted digital cable channel.

If it doesn't say all of that, then it means your card is not authorized and will not work. If the installer already left, and the cards were not activated, you should be able to activate them over the phone by calling Fiber Solutions @ 888-553-1555; when you call, say your CableCards were not activated properly.


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## westcoastexport

If it doesn't say all of that, then it means your card is not authorized and will not work.[/QUOTE]

this worked fine for card #1, but because Verizon's system was down, they couldn't activate #2. I have all of the required info, so if they allow me to activate over the phone, i should be okay. However, nothing seems easy with these cards.


----------



## westcoastexport

having just installed series3, i am also noticing audio breaks. they are very short but aggravating breaks in the audio signal. anyone having this issue?


----------



## westcoastexport

bkdtv said:


> Until the CableCards are activated, channels 1-50 are analog. The analog channels do not look nearly as good as the digital versions, which is what you get with the TiVoHD once the CableCards are activated.
> 
> As soon as the CableCards are activated, analog 1-50 is replaced with digital versions of 1-50.


not certain if it matters, but this was an older episode of Seinfeld on channel 52, TBS.


----------



## bkdtv

westcoastexport said:


> having just installed series3, i am also noticing audio breaks. they are very short but aggravating breaks in the audio signal. anyone having this issue?


Make sure you have the latest 9.2a software. I am going to assume that you do.

Open System Information -> Diagnostics. Do you see a lot of RS Uncorrected Errors? If so, your FiOS signal is probably too strong for the TiVo and you'll need some attenuation. More about that here.

RS Uncorrected Errors is how the TiVo measures signal errors that cause pixelization and audio dropouts.


----------



## westcoastexport

bkdtv said:


> Make sure you have the latest 9.2a software. I am going to assume that you do.
> 
> Open System Information -> Diagnostics. Do you see a lot of RS Uncorrected Errors? If so, your FiOS signal is probably too strong for the TiVo and you'll need some attenuation. More about that here.
> 
> RS Uncorrected Errors is how the TiVo measures signal errors that cause pixelization and audio dropouts.


Until they get both cards installed, I don't think trying to diagnose this is worth it.

BTW, I don't have 9.2. I have 8.01 which is supposed to be upgraded to 9.2 within 48 hours of TiVo activation. I only have a phone line to the S3 right now (just bought the wireless USB modem yesterday) and can't be sure that it isn't timing out. Looks that way based on connection results.


----------



## dallastx

I've had my Series 3 HD for a couple of months and generally am very satisfied. Howver, I've started watching football games on my 6416 because the TiVo seems to drop frames on quick action like football. Since the picture from the 6416 is perfect, it doesn't appear to be the Verizon signal.

I notice this also on some shows on The CW.

One of my biggest complaints about the FiOS 6416 was the fast forward and rewind. The new program seems to have corrected that problem completely.

Now if they could just copy TiVo's program descriptions and offer larger disks I'd be happy with with 6416.

An aside, is there a way to see the entire TiVo program description when it's too long for the display box?


----------



## bkdtv

dallastx said:


> I've had my Series 3 HD for a couple of months and generally am very satisfied. Howver, I've started watching football games on my 6416 because the TiVo seems to drop frames on quick action like football. Since the picture from the 6416 is perfect, it doesn't appear to be the Verizon signal.


I assume you've checked to be sure there are no RS Uncorrected errors on your TiVo's diagnostics screen?

Assuming there are no such errors, a reboot will usually fix this "stutter" issue.



dallastx said:


> An aside, is there a way to see the entire TiVo program description when it's too long for the display box?


Yes. Press the INFO button on the remote.


----------



## bcwaller

I just bought my first ever TiVo (Series 3) after years of ReplayTV and Cable company DVRs. The Verizon FiOS software was so awful that I chose to buy the TiVo and get rid of their DVR. I called for installation of the cable cards on Saturday and got scheduled for Monday AM. This was in Redondo Beach, CA. Installation took a half hour for both cards and another half hour to update the TiVo for the new setup.


----------



## sommerfeld

Just had FIOS TV installed in Arlington MA and connected to a Series 3 with two single-stream cable cards.

Pulling the drop cable and getting the right light to the ONT took forever but once the ONT was up and happy, the cablecard install went quickly.

One confusing bit was that the provisioning application on the installer's laptop asked for (among other things) 13-digit "pod id", which turned out to be the cablecard number as reported by the pairing screen; that number was not printed on the outside of the card.


----------



## ChickenCheese

Is there anything I need to do to go from Comcast's cablecards in my Series 3 to Fios' cable cards? Any kind of reset?


----------



## Martin Tupper

You'll need to rerun the guided setup.


----------



## ChickenCheese

Martin Tupper said:


> You'll need to rerun the guided setup.


Can I do that before the appointment, so it's ready for them? Or do I need to do that after they install the cable cards?


----------



## bkdtv

ChickenCheese said:


> Can I do that before the appointment, so it's ready for them? Or do I need to do that after they install the cable cards?


You can do it before.


----------



## aaronwt

And it will have you do it again after the CC install.


----------



## sommerfeld

ChickenCheese said:


> Is there anything I need to do to go from Comcast's cablecards in my Series 3 to Fios' cable cards? Any kind of reset?


If you can't get at the back of the S3 in its normal location, make sure you have enough slack in all the cables to let you pull the unit out while still plugged in.

FiOS inside and outside wiring and setting up the ONT and its battery box take a while; the cable cards come up as the very last phase of the install. If my experience was any guide, you should have plenty of time after they arrive to pull the comcast cable cards and re-run guided setup in parallel with their install.

Mid-way through guided setup, there will be a screen where it asks you if it guessed right on a channel -- just accept whatever channel name it gives you (it will obviously be wrong moving from comcast to fios).

When the FiOS installers get everything hooked up and you see analog channels, have them insert the first card, get it working, and then insert the second card.

You then run guided setup a second time to get guide data for the rest of the channels. That will take a while; they don't need to stick around for that -- you'll be better off testing new channels w/o guide data while they're there.


----------



## psuzebra

psuzebra said:


> So I tried to get my new TiVO HD working with two CableCARDs this morning. The FIOS guy came with 5 CableCARDs in hand, he had never done a TiVo installation before but was very patient while we tried to work through some of the problems.
> 
> We first tried a CableCARD in slot 1, but we kept getting 161-4 errors over and over. So he tried another CableCARD in slot 1, same result.
> 
> He then took the CableCARD and moved it from slot 1 to slot 2. After a minute, the pairing information came up for CableCARD 2. He went ahead and initialized and activated the CableCARD through his laptop. Then we went to "Test channels" and it was stuck on the "Acquiring channel info" screen for 15 mins or so.
> 
> At this point, I called up TiVo's tech support to get some help.
> 
> First, they had us power down and restart the TiVo. After it started back up, they had us install a third CableCARD into slot 1. Still getting repeating 161-4 errors.
> 
> We then moved that third CableCARD to slot 2. Pairing info came up after a minute or two and the tech went ahead and initialized and activated the card. We went to Test channels, it showed the Acquired channel info screen for about two minutes and then we were able to see the broadcast! However, as I scanned through the channels, it became obvious that I was only getting the local channels (3-49, 810-817) and none of the cable channels.
> 
> However, of greater concern was getting a CableCARD to work in slot 1. We tried inserting the remaining two CableCARDs that he brought in slot 1 as well as the ones we already tried. They all give 161-4 errors over and over. TiVo tech support concluded that the slot was bad and is sending out a new unit.
> 
> In the meantime, did anyone else have a similar experience? Did anyone else have a defective CableCARD slot? Also, does anyone know why I was only getting local channels on the working CableCARD?


So I got the new TivoHD unit yesterday. The FIOS tech had left two of the CableCARDs that worked in slot 2 of the previous unit, since TiVo tech told us that if it works in slot 2, then the CableCARD isn't broken.

I plug in the THD and start guided setup. On the CableCARD screen, I insert a CableCARD into slot 1. Doncha know it, I start getting 161-4 errors over and over again. I pop it out and insert it into slot 2. After a minute, the pairing screen comes up.

I then insert the other CableCARD into slot 1, and that gives 161-4 errors as well. Swap that into slot 2 and the pairing screen comes up.

At this point, I have no idea what's going on. I decide to remove both CableCARDs and force a connection to download 9.2a. It installs and I try everything again. Same result.

Called up TiVo tech support and explain the problem again. Gets escalated, noone has a clue, and they gave me a problem ticket. At this point, I have two apparently-working CableCARDs and my second TiVoHD and still can't watch anything.


----------



## litkaj

161-4 errors are actually expected. If you leave the card in there for about 5 minutes you should get the pairing screen.


----------



## wdave

litkaj said:


> 161-4 errors are actually expected. If you leave the card in there for about 5 minutes you should get the pairing screen.


:up: and I'm surprised Tivo tech support doesn't know this.

You might have to wait an inordinate amount of time for the pairing screen to come up, like 5-10 minutes. Don't consider it failed unless you've waited 10 minutes.


----------



## litkaj

wdave said:


> :up: and I'm surprised Tivo tech support doesn't know this.
> 
> You might have to wait an inordinate amount of time for the pairing screen to come up, like 5-10 minutes. Don't consider it failed unless you've waited 10 minutes.


They ought to, it says it right on the CableCARD install sheet...


----------



## Roderigo

litkaj said:


> 161-4 errors are actually expected. If you leave the card in there for about 5 minutes you should get the pairing screen.


The 161-4 error is only good if it appears once, and then, only when the cable company sends one type of hit to the card. If you get the error message consistently, then it's likely a hardware problem. In this case, since the error is always happening on the same slot, and the card works in the other slot, it sounds like a tivo hardware problem. If the error followed the card, it would likely be a card hardware error.


----------



## sommerfeld

litkaj said:


> 161-4 errors are actually expected. If you leave the card in there for about 5 minutes you should get the pairing screen.


Hmm. During my install it took a couple minutes before the pairing screen showed the three numbers they were looking for: "cable card" (which was called "pod id" on the installer's application), "host", and "data".

Once those numbers were entered in to the installer's laptop, the head end sent down initialization messages to the cards, and the tivo reported two 161-4 errors reported per cable card, shortly after the installer said he was sending each "hit" (there's an "init" message and an "activation" message).

at that point I went into the "test channels" menu for that card, and shortly thereafter all the channels started working through that card.

we then repeated for the 2nd card.


----------



## bizzy

its always baffled me why tivo doesn't include info on the "161-4 Error" screen saying that it is expected and good; or even that they call it an "Error".

Pathetic.


----------



## JustAllie

Verizon FiOS installation management is a cluster****. 

What a mess. They decided they needed to send a tech rather than letting me do a self-install, but because they sent the tech out on a "maintenance" ticket instead of an "installation" ticket, the system would not allow him to activate the cards. He had the cards in the TiVo, all the numbers and info he needed, all that he needed was the activation signal... no dice. And he couldn't get a new ticket. I've called and still can't get a new installation appointment. They're going to have to call me tomorrow. And of course I'm too busy to be out of work for another appointment anytime soon. Who knows when this will happen now.


----------



## phoneticman

Hi,

I am a new user to Tivo (I just got married and my wife turned me on to it). In any case, got the S3, ordered FiOS and got two cable cards for the S3. Install went just as planned. I did lose some channels shortly after the tech left, but a reset of the cards and the box and everything has been up for 2 days without issue. I am in Falls Church, VA...


----------



## JustAllie

phoneticman said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am a new user to Tivo (I just got married and my wife turned me on to it). In any case, got the S3, ordered FiOS and got two cable cards for the S3. Install went just as planned. I did lose some channels shortly after the tech left, but a reset of the cards and the box and everything has been up for 2 days without issue. I am in Falls Church, VA...


Welcome to the TiVolution!!! :up:


----------



## Roderigo

bizzy said:


> its always baffled me why tivo doesn't include info on the "161-4 Error" screen saying that it is expected and good; or even that they call it an "Error".


I would guess they do this because it *is* and error.

From SCTE 28, Appendix E, 161-4 is:


> Host sets data channel RS bit but POD fails to set FR bit within 5 second timeout.


The reason it's a "good" error, is because motorola for some reason seems to cause this error as part of it's normal operation when the card is initialized. But, if this error persists, then it's no longer a "good" error, and somethings pretty wrong w/ either the tivo or (more likely) the cards.


----------



## bizzy

Would it kill them to add a line of text that advises when the error is expected?


----------



## slocko

Wow, new to Tivo and new to married life! Remember, the Tivo will treat you better than your wife


----------



## psuzebra

Roderigo said:


> The 161-4 error is only good if it appears once, and then, only when the cable company sends one type of hit to the card. If you get the error message consistently, then it's likely a hardware problem. In this case, since the error is always happening on the same slot, and the card works in the other slot, it sounds like a tivo hardware problem. If the error followed the card, it would likely be a card hardware error.


Right, and sorry I left that out, but the TiVo tech mentioned that as well. If we get it more than a couple of times, there's something wrong.

We did wait 5-10 minutes on one of the cards, but it just kept looping on the 161-4 error with no real progress. Once we moved the same card from slot 1 to slot 2, there was no 161-4 error and the pairing screen came up within 60-90 seconds. TiVo originally thought it was a problem with the hardware of slot 1 so they exchanged the unit, but the new unit is exhibiting the same issue with the same CableCARDs.

I've since heard back from TiVo and they don't know what the issue is. The guy didn't think it was a problem with the TiVo since the probability of me receiving two units with bad hardware in slot 1 is so miniscule. He was willing to do another exchange but I didn't want to do that again until all other options were exhausted.

So I called up Verizon, they tried re-initializing the cards from their end, etc etc. But because we couldn't get the pairing screen up for slot 1, they couldn't reactivate the card. They are sending a tech out this morning with more CableCARDs to try.


----------



## dmbfan36_23

has anyone been able to get a multistream card from Verizon?


----------



## psuzebra

psuzebra said:


> Right, and sorry I left that out, but the TiVo tech mentioned that as well. If we get it more than a couple of times, there's something wrong.
> 
> We did wait 5-10 minutes on one of the cards, but it just kept looping on the 161-4 error with no real progress. Once we moved the same card from slot 1 to slot 2, there was no 161-4 error and the pairing screen came up within 60-90 seconds. TiVo originally thought it was a problem with the hardware of slot 1 so they exchanged the unit, but the new unit is exhibiting the same issue with the same CableCARDs.
> 
> I've since heard back from TiVo and they don't know what the issue is. The guy didn't think it was a problem with the TiVo since the probability of me receiving two units with bad hardware in slot 1 is so miniscule. He was willing to do another exchange but I didn't want to do that again until all other options were exhausted.
> 
> So I called up Verizon, they tried re-initializing the cards from their end, etc etc. But because we couldn't get the pairing screen up for slot 1, they couldn't reactivate the card. They are sending a tech out this morning with more CableCARDs to try.


Woohoo, everything works!
It took almost 5 hours to finally get the CableCARDs to work, but I get all of the channels.

We ended up going through 8 CCs before we found two that would activate correctly. Of course, the tech was having trouble with his laptop so he had to keep calling home to do the initialization-activation, and since it was Sunday, there were probably only 5 people working in the office so we were on hold a half hour at a time.

We got MISSING_PROGRAM_REKEY a few times, but fixing those just required a re-activation. Sometimes the initial activation just doesn't work for some reason even though Verizon's system says it was successful. When we got MISSING_PROGRAM_REKEY, we were able to download the channel list as well as see all of the local channels (2-49, 810-817) but none of the premier channels.

The only weird hiccup was when we were testing the channels for the CC in slot 2. It randomly rebooted the TiVo twice, but it was working fine after the third time and worked fine until we went to bed last night. Dunno.

Also, no pixelation so far that other people have reported with FIOS.


----------



## bdraw

dmbfan36_23 said:


> has anyone been able to get a multistream card from Verizon?


No, and according to Verizon press relations, they won't be available until sometime in 2008. My guess is by July 1st 2008, which is when Verizon's integrated security ban waiver expires.


----------



## dallastx

Thanks BKDTV. Rebooting did the trick.

You're tip about the info/display button to show the entire program description only works for programs in either the Now Playing or To Do lists. It doesn't work in the Guide.

Thenks again.


----------



## dmbfan36_23

the CSR just said "a cablecard? wow, I've never been asked for one.. we're not supposed to offer them anymore... 'honor not offer'".... I said yeah, you have to give me one if I ask and he laughed... now I'm trying to convince him to give it to me without a truck roll since I had to install the last one myself when the tech didn't know what to do 

EDIT: ok, they have to do a truck roll and charge me $24.99, but because I had to do the install myself last time and convinced the guy that I know how to do it, he's putting a $24.99 credit on my account at the same time


----------



## Tony1746

I am having FiOS installed next week. I currently have a Series 3 with two Comcast S-cards (everything works great). I would like to know the correct procedure for replacing the cable cards. I realize I need to go back through the guided setup. Should I perform a reset of the system first (after pulling out the old cards)? Does it make a difference?

Because CC installs can be tricky (took two tries w/Comcast), I don't want to make it any more difficult by not having the system in the best state.

Thanks...!!


----------



## HazelW

Tony1746 said:


> I am having FiOS installed next week. I currently have a Series 3 with two Comcast S-cards (everything works great). I would like to know the correct procedure for replacing the cable cards. I realize I need to go back through the guided setup. Should I perform a reset of the system first (after pulling out the old cards)? Does it make a difference?
> 
> Because CC installs can be tricky (took two tries w/Comcast), I don't want to make it any more difficult by not having the system in the best state.
> 
> Thanks...!!


I would remove the cards and run guided setup again telling it you have FIOS. You should not have to reset the system, but rebooting it would not hurt.


----------



## bdraw

I did this, all I did was pull the CableCARDs, reinstall the FiOS ones, and after they were activated the TiVo asked me to rerun guided setup. Everything worked perfectly and all my season passes were automatically updated to reflect the new channel numbers.


----------



## Tony1746

bdraw said:


> I did this, all I did was pull the CableCARDs, reinstall the FiOS ones, and after they were activated the TiVo asked me to rerun guided setup. Everything worked perfectly and all my season passes were automatically updated to reflect the new channel numbers.


OK. Sounds great. I'll try it and keep my fingers crossed !!!!!


----------



## JRWilliams308

This thread has truly been a fountain of knowledge for me.

My wife bought "me" a TivoHD for Christmas, I was so anxious to set this puppy up I thought about calling Verizon on Christmas to get my cablecards. But I waited...

So I call up on the 26th, get a quote on the rental at $2 (not $2.95, but big deal) and get my order number and am told I could go to the Customer Center in White Plains, NY(10 County Center Road, White Plains, NY 914-422-5011, if anyone needs it) pick the puppies up any day after the "install date". Ok so I go today 12/27 as I told the rep I'd do. Boy do I wish I saw this thread sooner. Those knukleheads don't know what a cablecard is, nor how to get one. Waste of my day off, jeez...

Anyways, here's the relevant part for the thread. I call up the FiOS service line to B*it*h and that rep informs me, oh no.. you can't pick those up.. you have to order it and there's a $49 service charge.

** Thump **

When I come to, I start ripping. "This is crazy" "I ain't paying $50 bucks for some guy to come out here for 15 minutes" blah blah "get me a supervisor" She felt my pain and aggravation for my wasted day I think, so since a Sup wasn't available she's going to call me back in the am and get one on the line. I'm wondering from the couple of people who successfully got them to let them do a self install, where there any trigger words that you used. any tips?

and is this the first $49 charge the first anyone has heard of? sounds like everyone else is getting quoted at $24.95.

Thanks, looking forward to spending some quality time on this board (I'm another ReplayTV convert)

By the way, for that other ReplayTV convert, the latest Tivo build appears to let you play ReplayTV video too. PM me if you interested in how I did it...


----------



## bkdtv

JRWilliams308 said:


> and is this the first $49 charge the first anyone has heard of? sounds like everyone else is getting quoted at $24.95.


That $49 charge may be the fee to to install another TV outlet in your home (i.e. run the cable outside the home, drill through the wall, etc). They may have quoted that charge if you didn't make it clear that this was an existing TV outlet.

If you are just getting the Tivo installed with CableCards on an existing outlet, the fee should only be $24.99.


----------



## bdraw

They tried to charge me to return 2 cards. I told them there was no way I'd pay for someone to come by my house and pick up cards. I called back and found out I could drop them off at a local Verizon store. Too bad, they don't let you pick them up as easily.

Either way the trip charge should be free considering they wont let you self install and the installers have so little clue as to how to install a card, that I've had to do it every time. This isn't an isolated incident as I've had 10 CableCARDs installed, 6 with FiOS and 4 with BHN.


----------



## JRWilliams308

Update..

FiOS rep I spoke with today advises the quoted price IS for the install of 2 cards. So I'm being charged twice, one for each card NOT for one installation. 

I went ahead and setup up the appointment, because I just can't bear looking at my TivoHD with only Amazon Unbox and my various other downloaded content on it. I need this puppy working. But I'm certainly going to be sending some complaint letters, who knows, maybe they'll get scared when they see I cc'd the BBB and the FCC

Verizon is REALLY making this difficult.


----------



## wmcbrine

JRWilliams308 said:


> But I'm certainly going to be sending some complaint letters, who knows, maybe they'll get scared when they see I cc'd the BBB and the FCC.


Verizon is too big to be scared by anyone, alas.


----------



## GoHokies!

GoHokies! said:


> What a great amount of information here, thanks for everyone.
> 
> I'm buying a house in Odenton, MD (Anne Arundel County) and have the FIOS install set up for 28 December. Right now it's just a basic install with one SD box, as I'm not sure I'm going to have everything in the house for the Tech to set up the cable cards and such.
> 
> It appears from reading the thread that folks are having better luck w/ pixelation on the THD than the S3. I have an S3 now and am likely going to be buying a THD for my parents for Christmas. Would it be beneficial to give my folks the S3 and keep the THD for myself, or is there not a big enough difference between the two to worry about it. Anything else that I need to keep in mind? (I'll definitely be hitting up ebay for a few NIM100's once I figure out where I'm going to want network connections, that's an awesome and unexpected side effect of FIOS!).
> 
> One month until I can tell Comcast to BUGGER OFF!!!


Update: The install was yesterday and went off without an issue, 2x cablecards in the S3 (along with 2x SD STBs) working flawlessly. The installers were quick and knowledgeable - so far I'm VERY impressed with FIOS.

Hopefully today will go as well (but I doubt it), I'm sitting at my parents waiting for the Comcast guy to come with an M card for the THD I got them for Christmas. I'm sure glad I left the house at 0530 to be here for the 7-10 install window, since it's 0930 now and no sign of them!


----------



## Bandit LOAF

Howdy,
I just had a strange experience with Verizon. I called to order two CableCARDS... the woman I spoke to seemed to understand what they were, but also insisted that they didn't require an installation. I'll be pretty darned happy if that's the case, but it doesn't seem to mesh with anything else I've read online. Has anyone else experienced this? They say they'll be shipped to me via UPS... but the back of my head worries that I'll be calling Verizon to figure out where they disappeared to in two weeks (or at least be stuck with two inactive cards...)


----------



## Eudmin

How are you guys getting anyone on the phone at Verizon? 

I keep trying the 800-688-2880 number to change my upcoming FIOS order for a couple cable cards rather than an HD box since I got a Tivo HD for Christmas, but I just can't get past the "due to an unusually high call volume your call cannot be answered at this time" message. 

I even occasionally get transferred to someone in tech support who tries to be helpful and transfer me to an internal sales line which still says it cannot be answered. The phone company can't answer their phones, sheesh.

Edit: Woah, was on hold for the 5th time while typing this and actually got someone who says that they will add cable cards to my order. Actually, the first thing she said was that she needed to advise me that Tivo does not work with FIOS. I told her that wasn't correct, and she said "OK, I just needed to note that I had told you that." What's that all about? She did end up adding them to my order, though. $3 each.


----------



## Eudmin

The installer just left. Tried 4 cable cards and only 1 ended up working.

The first cable card would never show anything other than all zeros in the CableCard, Host, and Data fields even after waiting a very long time.

The second cable card did show some info, and we thought it was going to work. It had come out of someone else's TV, so it was assumed to be good. We recorded those data fields and tried activating it with the laptop, but never got any hit on it. Then the person on the "FCS" line told him to deactivate, reboot the Tivo, then reactivate it. Well, he wasn't able to reactivate it. It somehow wouldn't remove it from the system so his laptop program was complaining about duplicate serial number or some such. He called FCS back again and we again never received any hits on it, no 161-4 errors and the Conditional Status kept saying unknown.

The third cable card worked flawlessly in slot 1! Exactly as the directions said it should.

The fourth cable card went into slot 2, but it had the problem of all zeros in the CableCard, Host, and Data fields. He called his regional office and verified that it had been authorized for use, but it never did update that info and give us the info to pair it.

He gave me his cell number and I'll call after work tomorrow for him to head over with 4 more cable cards.

Picture sure does look good on card 1 though. 8)


----------



## PhiTauBill

Like many, I am a soon-to-be ReplayTV convert (although I had a couple of expanded Series 1 TiVos back in the day)...

I've had FIOS for about 6 months with LOTS of router/guide issues... I purchased a NIM online, and am using my own D-Link, but still have intermittent Guide/VOD/DVR issues. I recently decided make the Tivo leap again and return my three HD STBs (at a cost of $9.95, $9.95 and $12.95, respectively) in favor of 2 TiVoHDs.

I just got off of an excruciating 30 minute call with the Verizon folks to order 4 CableCARDs for my two brandy new TiVoHD units. After getting through the initial bullsh%$ about it not working with Tivo and me letting them know they must install them by FCC mandate, they quoted me the following fees:

Recurring
$ 2.99 per cable card X 4 - $11.96 per month. OK. That makes sense.

One-Time
$49.95 service downgrade fee. WTF? I'm feverishly trying to look this up. Anyone have a link to FIOS TV Terms of Service? If so, please provide. I can't locate them.

$24.99 per STB return fee x 3 - $74.97. Again, WTF?

$24.95 per CableCARD install fee x 4 = $99.80. Seriously, this is crazy... has anyone else had this issue. I eventually just decided that they are insane, and I will deal with it when the bill arrives, but I'd love to hear from anyone else of they've heard of such insanity.

My appointment is set for Tuesday, 1/8/2008. I'll keep you abreast of my progress.

In the meantime, please share any similar experiences or tidbits of advice.

Regards,
Bill


----------



## TheBar1

PhiTauBill said:


> Recurring
> $ 2.99 per cable card X 4 - $11.96 per month. OK. That makes sense.


A necessary evil, at least until Verizon makes MCards available.



> $49.95 service downgrade fee. WTF? I'm feverishly trying to look this up. Anyone have a link to FIOS TV Terms of Service? If so, please provide. I can't locate them.


First time I've heard of this one - Yikes!



> $24.99 per STB return fee x 3 - $74.97. Again, WTF?


I think you can get around this by tellling them you will drive the STBs to a Verizon store to turn them in.



> $24.95 per CableCARD install fee x 4 = $99.80. Seriously, this is crazy... has anyone else had this issue. I eventually just decided that they are insane, and I will deal with it when the bill arrives, but I'd love to hear from anyone else of they've heard of such insanity.


I think this fee basically ties to the truck roll itself. I would think that you can get this reduced to a flat $24.95 if you ask (politely) to speak with the CSR's manager.

Let us know if you get around these roadblocks. I have not made the leap back to TiVo since getting FiOS (was a DirecTiVo user for years), and I'm basically waiting for M-Cards to make my move.

I've gotten some good research out of the DSL Reports FiOS TV forum here:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/vzfiostv

Good Luck!


----------



## TimAtkins1

PhiTauBill said:


> Like many, I am a soon-to-be ReplayTV convert (although I had a couple of expanded Series 1 TiVos back in the day)...
> 
> I've had FIOS for about 6 months with LOTS of router/guide issues... I purchased a NIM online, and am using my own D-Link, but still have intermittent Guide/VOD/DVR issues. I recently decided make the Tivo leap again and return my three HD STBs (at a cost of $9.95, $9.95 and $12.95, respectively) in favor of 2 TiVoHDs.
> 
> I just got off of an excruciating 30 minute call with the Verizon folks to order 4 CableCARDs for my two brandy new TiVoHD units. After getting through the initial bullsh%$ about it not working with Tivo and me letting them know they must install them by FCC mandate, they quoted me the following fees:
> 
> Recurring
> $ 2.99 per cable card X 4 - $11.96 per month. OK. That makes sense.
> 
> One-Time
> $49.95 service downgrade fee. WTF? I'm feverishly trying to look this up. Anyone have a link to FIOS TV Terms of Service? If so, please provide. I can't locate them.
> 
> $24.99 per STB return fee x 3 - $74.97. Again, WTF?
> 
> $24.95 per CableCARD install fee x 4 = $99.80. Seriously, this is crazy... has anyone else had this issue. I eventually just decided that they are insane, and I will deal with it when the bill arrives, but I'd love to hear from anyone else of they've heard of such insanity.
> 
> My appointment is set for Tuesday, 1/8/2008. I'll keep you abreast of my progress.
> 
> In the meantime, please share any similar experiences or tidbits of advice.
> 
> Regards,
> Bill


I was charged one $29.99 fee. It covered the truck roll, turn in of an HD DVR and a SD STB and install of 2 cablecards.


----------



## naybag

PhiTauBill said:


> One-Time
> $49.95 service downgrade fee. WTF? I'm feverishly trying to look this up. Anyone have a link to FIOS TV Terms of Service? If so, please provide. I can't locate them.
> 
> $24.99 per STB return fee x 3 - $74.97. Again, WTF?
> 
> $24.95 per CableCARD install fee x 4 = $99.80. Seriously, this is crazy... has anyone else had this issue. I eventually just decided that they are insane, and I will deal with it when the bill arrives, but I'd love to hear from anyone else of they've heard of such insanity.


These fees are ridiculous. I think you should send a letter to the FCC, since it seems they are using price gouging as a tactic to dissuade people from getting and using cable cards.

I got my tivo a few months back and was not charged to have my box returned. I believe i was charged $25.00 for the service visit.


----------



## bkdtv

PhiTauBill said:


> Like many, I am a soon-to-be ReplayTV convert (although I had a couple of expanded Series 1 TiVos back in the day)...
> 
> I've had FIOS for about 6 months with LOTS of router/guide issues... I purchased a NIM online, and am using my own D-Link, but still have intermittent Guide/VOD/DVR issues. I recently decided make the Tivo leap again and return my three HD STBs (at a cost of $9.95, $9.95 and $12.95, respectively) in favor of 2 TiVoHDs.
> 
> I just got off of an excruciating 30 minute call with the Verizon folks to order 4 CableCARDs for my two brandy new TiVoHD units. After getting through the initial bullsh%$ about it not working with Tivo and me letting them know they must install them by FCC mandate, they quoted me the following fees:
> 
> Recurring
> $ 2.99 per cable card X 4 - $11.96 per month. OK. That makes sense.
> 
> One-Time
> $49.95 service downgrade fee. WTF? I'm feverishly trying to look this up. Anyone have a link to FIOS TV Terms of Service? If so, please provide. I can't locate them.
> 
> $24.99 per STB return fee x 3 - $74.97. Again, WTF?
> 
> $24.95 per CableCARD install fee x 4 = $99.80. Seriously, this is crazy... has anyone else had this issue. I eventually just decided that they are insane, and I will deal with it when the bill arrives, but I'd love to hear from anyone else of they've heard of such insanity.


Thankfully, whoever gave you the above information was misinformed.


 There is a $24.99 charge for a "truck roll" to install *all* the CableCards you requested. It is *not* a "per CableCard" fee.

 There is a $24.99 charge for a "truck roll" to remove STBs and DVRs that you do not want (IIRC).

If the STBs and DVRs are removed during the same visit that your CableCards are installed, you only pay the $24.99 "truck roll" fee once, not twice.

There is a $49.99 charge for a "truck roll" to cancel TV service and remove all related equipment (IIRC).

Basically, there is at least a $24.99 fee any time that a FiOS service technician must visit your home for something other than maintenance / support. These "truck roll" charges are in line with most other cable companies.

CableCard installation requires a truck roll, so you can't avoid that $24.99 fee. However, you can avoid other fees by driving to the nearest FiOS office and dropping off the equipment you do not want. In some service areas, you can also request a Fedex return label for the STBs and DVRs.


----------



## PhiTauBill

Thanks All, for the very helpful information. I guess the best that I can hope for is that if this order is processed the way the sales rep indicated, that the billing people will have a better understanding of what is what when I call in to correct her, and eliminate those fees. In the meantime, I'll continue my search for the FIOS TV Terms of Service.


----------



## acvthree

Here are the New Jersey drop off locations...

http://www22.verizon.com/Residentia...Support/Account+Issues/QuestionsOne/98776.htm


----------



## Eudmin

I got my second cable card Friday night. The installer came back after his normal work hours with only 1 cable card and said that we should just cross our fingers. We put it in, and the pairing screen popped up. He called in on his phone and didn't even have to give them any of the info on the pairing screen. He just chose the serial number of the card from the audible menu on his phone (they had it checked out to him), told them my phone number (also to the automated system), and they sent out two hits and 10 minutes later it was receiving channels.

The wait time after receiving the hits worried us. I thought the Conditional Access screen would update right away, but even though the diagnostics screen didn't show that it was downloading anything it still took a while for it to start working on with the test channels.

It took a repeat of Guided Setup to get both tuners going instead of just the one I had, but it works great now.


----------



## acvthree

>>>He just chose the serial number of the card from the audible menu on his phone (they had it checked out to him), 

Is this new? It sure seems like a good way to avoid a lot of problems.

Al


----------



## JRWilliams308

Just to update all.

I finally (after 2 1\2 days of missed or non-scheduled appointments) got a tech visit. on Saturday. He immediately asked why was I going with a Tivo DVR. "Have you tried ours" "it's better". I smiled. Told him theirs was crap. I had already returned it. Nice guy though...we actually had a good time.

We better have, since he was here for nearly 3 hours...

First suggestion, ask your installer if they've installed cable cards on a Tivo yet. I did, and he said yes, but later revealed that he meant he'd installed cable cards on "some of our boxes" (wait, our boxes? I thought Verizon and the Cable Ops where still fighting introduction of their own cable card boxes).

Anyways, after several calls to his support group, and a couple of times double checking the serial numbers. We couldn't figure out why the channels weren't detecting. I finally said screw it, it's time to restart (we'd done the guided setup 3 times already).

Viola. Both cablecards came up and I was immediately watching and recording HD. What a beautiful sight.

SO remember, "when in doubt, reboot!"


----------



## PhiTauBill

PhiTauBill said:


> Like many, I am a soon-to-be ReplayTV convert (although I had a couple of expanded Series 1 TiVos back in the day)...
> 
> I've had FIOS for about 6 months with LOTS of router/guide issues... I purchased a NIM online, and am using my own D-Link, but still have intermittent Guide/VOD/DVR issues. I recently decided make the Tivo leap again and return my three HD STBs (at a cost of $9.95, $9.95 and $12.95, respectively) in favor of 2 TiVoHDs.
> 
> I just got off of an excruciating 30 minute call with the Verizon folks to order 4 CableCARDs for my two brandy new TiVoHD units. After getting through the initial bullsh%$ about it not working with Tivo and me letting them know they must install them by FCC mandate, they quoted me the following fees:
> 
> Recurring
> $ 2.99 per cable card X 4 - $11.96 per month. OK. That makes sense.
> 
> One-Time
> $49.95 service downgrade fee. WTF? I'm feverishly trying to look this up. Anyone have a link to FIOS TV Terms of Service? If so, please provide. I can't locate them.
> 
> $24.99 per STB return fee x 3 - $74.97. Again, WTF?
> 
> $24.95 per CableCARD install fee x 4 = $99.80. Seriously, this is crazy... has anyone else had this issue. I eventually just decided that they are insane, and I will deal with it when the bill arrives, but I'd love to hear from anyone else of they've heard of such insanity.
> 
> My appointment is set for Tuesday, 1/8/2008. I'll keep you abreast of my progress.
> 
> In the meantime, please share any similar experiences or tidbits of advice.
> 
> Regards,
> Bill


Well, I promised an update, and here it is. Verizon called me Saturday night (1/5/2008) and indicated they had availability on Sunday (1/6/2008) a.m. which I gladly accepted b/c that meant I wouldn't have to work from home on Tuesday (1/8/2008), my originally scheduled time.

Unfortunately, once Sunday morning rolled around, they called me and indicated that they had NO cablecards in the area, and did not know when they would have more. That's not good consdering the fact that I need 4, and failure rates seem to be in the 25-50% range... seems like I'd want the installer to have at least 6 of them to have a good chance of success... so, he said they'd place the job order in "jeopardy", whatever the [email protected] that means... [sigh] I wonder if I'll ever have my cablecards...

Anyone have asimilar experience where there are NO cablecards available?

I'll keep you posted on my progress... at least point I am not too hopeful that it will be done tomorrow, Tuesday, as originally scheduled.

We'll see...

Regards,
Bill


----------



## philhu

That is a standard way to get out of installing cable cards. Not just Fios, butr alot of cable companies, incluiding Comcast in alot of areas.

They MUST give them, but the suppliers have no incentive to make them, so the cable company points at the manufacturer and says, 'none availabe'

I know someone who waited 5 months and then the order 'got lost', so they wanted him to wait some more.

Now, Comcast Boston brought out 2 shiny M-Cards for my 2 tivos, and they were in and gone in 15 minutes, at $2.95 per card. Total $5.90/month for BOTH tivo's!!

I even kept my std cable box, I was so impressed, to get Comcast On-Demand.


----------



## wrp

I've logged more that 8 hours during the past 5 weeks on the phone with Verizon trying to get 2 additional cablecards for a second Tivo - but no one at Verizon can get this done. They tried several times to mail them to me, but of course Verizon needs a truck roll. And they don't know how to cancel the work order. I'm beginning to think I might have to first completely cancel the fios-tv, and then start all over. Any other suggestions?


----------



## Bandit LOAF

wrp said:


> I've logged more that 8 hours during the past 5 weeks on the phone with Verizon trying to get 2 additional cablecards for a second Tivo - but no one at Verizon can get this done. They tried several times to mail them to me, but of course Verizon needs a truck roll. And they don't know how to cancel the work order. I'm beginning to think I might have to first completely cancel the fios-tv, and then start all over. Any other suggestions?


I've been in exactly the same boat - I finally called them again and sat through another hour of holds to find someone who knew that cablecards had to be installed... they're theoretically going to take care of it on the 15th.

My experience was that the lady who answers the phone for the local Maryland office is the problem (it's been the same woman every time I've gotten that far)... everyone else in the forwarding chain seems to understand how it's supposed to work. When I got to that point today I explained the whole problem again and she checked with her supervisor and finally scheduled the truck roll.

I'm not really sure what will happen to the last order where they swore up and down that they could just mail me the cards... I guess we'll see what my bill looks like in a month!


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## wrp

Unless they actually cancelled the older order, nothing will happen on 1/15


----------



## Bandit LOAF

wrp said:


> Unless they actually cancelled the older order, nothing will happen on 1/15


Any idea why that is?

Edit: You sufficiently terrified me, so I called up Verizon again... the first person who responded was able to find the 1/15 appointment without being prompted and claimed that the 1/14 listing was now "empty." Of course, I've had Verizon insist things to me before -- so who knows!


----------



## Eudmin

acvthree said:


> Is this new? It sure seems like a good way to avoid a lot of problems.
> 
> Al


I don't know if it's around all over, but I swear that's what happened.

He navigated the telephone menus after quoting his technician number and the number on his Secure Key. I heard them quoting serial numbers for the other CableCard that I had installed successfully already and asking if he wanted to deactivate it.

He said "no" to the deactivation so they asked about the one that he had checked out, he said "yes" and a few minutes later I got a 161-4 error from the "initialize" hit (according to the tech) and another 161-4 error from the "activate" hit (also according to the tech) and after an initial panic for about 10 minutes where it seemed that it wasn't working it just started working. It was receiving OOB messages the entire time, so maybe it was just downloading stuff.

So far, in my experience, if the test channels on the cablecard menu work, then the setup is done and a guided setup and/or reboot will set it all right. We had some confusion when we were able to get the test channel on cablecard 2 to tune, but were not able to switch tuners on live TV. A guided setup set that right.


----------



## aaronwt

I never had to reboot any of my TiVoHD boxes or Series 3 boxes when the cable cards were installed. I glad I had the rest of mine done 2 months ago since people seem to be having problems now.


----------



## SamReidland

Verizon support guy came to the house today and installed my cable cards in my HD TiVo. I had set up the TiVo a few days ago and installed the latest software (9.2 I think). He put both cards in and wrote down the various numbers, went to his truck to do the laptop thing. Came back in and all worked perfectly. The entire process took about 30 to 40 minutes. Most of the he was in his truck activating the cards. He had done TiVo before. He did say that some go well and some do not. I guess I was lucky.

I had several TiVos back when they were new, up until about a year ago when I got FIOS. I finally got fed up with their DVR. Glad to be back on TiVo.


----------



## DeWitt

I just went through a FIOS Install in my mothers building (Multi unit - fiber to ONT in Unit)

The Tech mentioned that he has done several TIVO installs. (He was a very experienced senior tech) He mentioned that he found the Tivo's sensitive to a too hot line from the ONT. I could blame this on the cable cards rather than the Tivo, but the issue is the same...

He said that if he carefully checked levels and attenuated them to specification level everything worked fine.


----------



## ah30k

DeWitt said:


> I could blame this on the cable cards rather than the Tivo, but the issue is the same...


Don't think so. The RF receivers/tuners are in the host not CableCARD. The CableCARD interface is purely digital. Nice try though.


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## ufo4sale

Why is it, that on my TivoHD, I only get HD channels on one cable card but not the other?


----------



## gnatz

I used to have DirecTV HDTivo, but moved over to FIOS and just bought a standalone TivoHD. With the D* HDTivo, Tivo service was managed by DirecTV, so there was no need to open an account with Tivo. However, now that I have a standalone TivoHD unit, will I need to obtain Tivo service prior to having cablecards installed in the TivoHD, or can I wait to activate Tivo service after the cablecard installation? TIA


----------



## bkdtv

gnatz said:


> I used to have DirecTV HDTivo, but moved over to FIOS and just bought a standalone TivoHD. With the D* HDTivo, Tivo service was managed by DirecTV, so there was no need to open an account with Tivo. However, now that I have a standalone TivoHD unit, will I need to obtain Tivo service prior to having cablecards installed in the TivoHD, or can I wait to activate Tivo service after the cablecard installation? TIA


You will need to sign up within the first week of running guided setup. You can pay $12.95/mo, $129/yr ($10.75/mo), or $299/3yrs.



ufo4sale said:


> Why is it, that on my TivoHD, I only get HD channels ons one cable card but not the other?


If you don't get a picture on one tuner, then one of your CableCards wasn't properly activated. When both cards are activated properly, you will get all the same channels on both tuners.

You should be able to resolve this over the phone, but before you can do that, you need to find out which CableCard needs activation. To do that, set each tuner to a different digital channel, such as 825 and 826. I'm assuming you know how to switch tuners, i.e. press the right arrow to bring up info display, then down press down arrow to select the other tuner.

Go to the System Information -> CableCard X.. -> Conditional Access screen. A correctly activated FiOS CableCard will appears as follows:










For each CableCard, it should say *Connected: yes, EnabledByCP: yes* and *Auth: Subscribed* on an encrypted digital cable channel. Do that for both CableCard 1 and CableCard 2 to determine which CableCard that doesn't match the above.

Once you verify which of the two cards still needs to be activated, take out the card and write down its serial number. Then plug it back in and pull up the System Information -> CableCard .. -> CableCard Pairing screen (shown below) for that card. Call Fiber Solutions @ 888-553-1555 before 6pm.










Tell Fiber Solutions that one of your CableCards was not properly activated. Tell them you know the card serial number and have all the activation information on the screen.


----------



## davidac

gnatz said:


> I used to have DirecTV HDTivo, but moved over to FIOS and just bought a standalone TivoHD.


I too am in the process of dropping D* and getting FiOS. Installer is supposed to come today. Just a note on tivo sevice. you can also qualify for lifetime service as a D* tivo customer even though it is not managed by tivo anymore. At least that is what I was told and that is what I paid for though they haven't activated it yet. Supposedly because of the unique circumstance it can take up to 5 days. Well this is day 5. Still waiting. My status says internal testing on the Tivo. So it works for now anyway.


----------



## rob.williams

I called for cable cards for my new HD TIVO, and the CSR said that as of "last week" they can send out the cards without a technician. Should I expect a follow-up call telling me that they will need to roll a truck?


----------



## bkdtv

rob.williams said:


> I called for cable cards for my new HD TIVO, and the CSR said that as of "last week" they can send out the cards without a technician. Should I expect a follow-up call telling me that they will need to roll a truck?


The CSR was mistaken. The computer system gives them the option to ship CableCards to customers, but all of those orders are canceled later in processing.

A $25 truck roll is required. If you ask a sales rep to ship you cards, that will delay installation by 1-2 weeks. You save that time by asking for a truck roll from the start.

When you request the installation, be sure you indicate that the CableCards are going to your existing TV, not a new TV outlet. Verizon will charge you extra if they think the CableCards are going to new TV, requiring another TV outlet installation.


----------



## Bodie

bkdtv said:


> I'm assuming you know how to switch tuners, i.e. press the right arrow to bring up info display, then down press down arrow to select the other tuner.


That or just press the "Live TV" button once.


----------



## PhiTauBill

PhiTauBill said:


> Well, I promised an update, and here it is. Verizon called me Saturday night (1/5/2008) and indicated they had availability on Sunday (1/6/2008) a.m. which I gladly accepted b/c that meant I wouldn't have to work from home on Tuesday (1/8/2008), my originally scheduled time.
> 
> Unfortunately, once Sunday morning rolled around, they called me and indicated that they had NO cablecards in the area, and did not know when they would have more. That's not good consdering the fact that I need 4, and failure rates seem to be in the 25-50% range... seems like I'd want the installer to have at least 6 of them to have a good chance of success... so, he said they'd place the job order in "jeopardy", whatever the [email protected] that means... [sigh] I wonder if I'll ever have my cablecards...
> 
> Anyone have asimilar experience where there are NO cablecards available?
> 
> I'll keep you posted on my progress... at least point I am not too hopeful that it will be done tomorrow, Tuesday, as originally scheduled.
> 
> We'll see...
> 
> Regards,
> Bill


Once again, another update...

I never had a service visit on January 8, 2008. When I called Verizon again, they indicated that they had no idea when cable cards would be back in stock from the manufacturer. Great news...

I called customer service again this evening, January 15, 2008, and this time the representative decided it would be best to schedule another truck roll. The best date he could get me was February 4, 2008, more than a full month following my initial order date (I expect a full refund of my STB fees for this period, but I'll tackle that later). I'm still not particularly hopeful that this will go well as he was pretty wishy-washy on guaranteeing cablecard availability (I need 4 for my two TivoHDs), but I guess I have no choice at this point. Since I've gotten so jazzed up over the conduct of the salespeople, I've went ahead a filed an FCC complaint... we'll see what I hear on that end... perhaps the NJ BPU deserves a strongly worded communication, as well.

Anyone had a cable card install in NJ lately?

Regards,
Bill


----------



## steak

I guess cable cards are in abundance here in NoVA. I called Verizon today and they offered to come out on Thursday but I told them Friday was better. They said okay and are supposed to be coming out to install 2 cable cards into my new S3.

Here's hoping all works out well!!!


----------



## gnatz

steak said:


> I guess cable cards are in abundance here in NoVA. I called Verizon today and they offered to come out on Thursday but I told them Friday was better. They said okay and are supposed to be coming out to install 2 cable cards into my new S3.
> 
> Here's hoping all works out well!!!


Same here in my neighborhood. I called Monday and they're coming out Thursday with 2 cards....fingers crossed.


----------



## davidac

So I had my install yesterday. technician had no cable cards and no knowledge that I needed them. He just called his boss and they brought them over some 3 hours into the install. We got them installed. and an HD box in the bedroom. Then he had to call in to get the cable cards activated. He has to sit on hold for 40 minutes. Finally gets a guy, he activates the box and the first cable card, we keep him on the line and insert the second cable card, give him the numbers and he activates that supposedly. says it is a little back up. The first cable card works on all channels. The status in the menus looks good. The second cable card gets the locals only. No encrypted digital channels, no HD. He says to wait a little while. He goes out to his truck to pack up. We wait. Still doesn't work. He says to call in and that I will have quicker access to someone than he did. He leaves. I wait another hour, still not working. I call in. wait 40 minutes or get a call back in 40 minutes. Get a call back in 40 minutes to say I will get a call back in 10 more minutes. get a call back in 10 more minutes, and the guy I get is useless. Re-seat the HDMI cable is his only suggestion. Which even though I know that is not gonna do anything I do so. And of course it doesn't. He is telling me he is waiting on the help desk to tell him what to do, I am thinking he is the help desk. Guess I was wrong. I told him my installer told me to ask to talk to a Network Technician. He says he can open a case with them but I cannot talk to them. OK open a case but don't have them call me back tonight I am going to bed. Did I mention I was told to expect the installer bet ween 8 and 10 AM. Installer did not arrive till around 2. Not his fault, doing what he was told to do. Or course no on told me this. Anyway, back up this morning. locals, and HD work, but no digital encrypted, so I need to call again. I am so looking forward to that. and I also have a problem with the HD box. I have to unplug it and plug it back in the get a video signal to come out of the HDMI port. So much for a remote control turning on the TV. Needless to say this hasn't gone as smoothly as I had hoped.


----------



## Bandit LOAF

> Edit: You sufficiently terrified me, so I called up Verizon again... the first person who responded was able to find the 1/15 appointment without being prompted and claimed that the 1/14 listing was now "empty." Of course, I've had Verizon insist things to me before -- so who knows!


Just thought I'd follow up -- the installer did show up last night and he was very friendly and was happy to listen to me when we ran into trouble (which is to say that he was happy to listen to you kind people, vicariously.)

The process took about two and a half hours because we kept finding cards that hadn't been properly activated... but he was willing to stay (until 8 PM!) and keep swapping them out and calling them in over and over until we had two that worked.

Some of Verizon's phone people need a better script but their techs are top notch -- they really put Comcast to shame. I'm so deliriously happy to have a working Tivo again... my poor old Series 2 died several months back and I've been living without since then.


----------



## rob.williams

rob.williams said:


> I called for cable cards for my new HD TIVO, and the CSR said that as of "last week" they can send out the cards without a technician. Should I expect a follow-up call telling me that they will need to roll a truck?


Just a quick follow-up. Of course, they needed to roll a truck. However, they didn't tell me when they were going to come by. I got a call at 11:20AM telling me that they were at my house, as I had an 8AM-5PM appointment scheduled. Mind you, I called yesterday to get the cable cards. They were as surprised as I was, as appointments are usually 16 days out, according to the installer.

Usually, this wouldn't be a problem, but I was at my wife's Lasik appointment, and couldn't get home until Noon. They couldn't wait, so had to reschedule me. For the 29th, of course.

Oh well...

(edit - I just noticed FTD's post below. The tech I spoke with said this was going to be his first card install, so he and his supervisor were there to activate the cards.)


----------



## FullThrottleDave

Just wanted everyone to know that some of the Verizon techs in Oregon are learning about Tivo HD and Cable Cards. Two came out this morning to install two single cards in a new TivoHD. They were aware that one at a time was the way to go and were patient with the process. 
After activating the card in the first slot we moved to the second slot and I started the guided setup, They then left promising to call at the end of the day.
The card in the second slot became authorized but slot 1 did not. I called and they were able to swing by again. 
They updated the firmware in the router, (which should not have done anything) and the de-authorized and re-authorized the card in slot 1. 
I re-ran guided setup and both are now working!


----------



## rifleman69

FullThrottleDave said:


> Just wanted everyone to know that some of the Verizon techs in Oregon are learning about Tivo HD and Cable Cards. Two came out this morning to install two single cards in a new TivoHD. They were aware that one at a time was the way to go and were patient with the process.
> After activating the card in the first slot we moved to the second slot and I started the guided setup, They then left promising to call at the end of the day.
> The card in the second slot became authorized but slot 1 did not. I called and they were able to swing by again.
> They updated the firmware in the router, (which should not have done anything) and the de-authorized and re-authorized the card in slot 1.
> I re-ran guided setup and both are now working!


Should have never let them leave in the first place. Firmware in the router doesn't do anything for the TiVo's so you're correct on that.


----------



## steak

steak said:


> I guess cable cards are in abundance here in NoVA. I called Verizon today and they offered to come out on Thursday but I told them Friday was better. They said okay and are supposed to be coming out to install 2 cable cards into my new S3.
> 
> Here's hoping all works out well!!!


Well I had my CC install today and all went very well. The technician had experience with installing CC's into Tivo boxes and within 40 minutes I had both installed and working. The tech told me that they have had many people move over to TIVO from their Moto boxes due to the technical problems with the IMG on the FIOS DVRs.

He also knew about the potential attenuation issues and gave me an attenuator to use in case I had problems along with his cell phone number in case he needed to come back out to adjust the signal.

That has to be one of the best techs I have ever had from VZ!

Now I have to setup all my season passes!


----------



## PhiTauBill

PhiTauBill said:


> Once again, another update...
> 
> I never had a service visit on January 8, 2008. When I called Verizon again, they indicated that they had no idea when cable cards would be back in stock from the manufacturer. Great news...
> 
> I called customer service again this evening, January 15, 2008, and this time the representative decided it would be best to schedule another truck roll. The best date he could get me was February 4, 2008, more than a full month following my initial order date (I expect a full refund of my STB fees for this period, but I'll tackle that later). I'm still not particularly hopeful that this will go well as he was pretty wishy-washy on guaranteeing cablecard availability (I need 4 for my two TivoHDs), but I guess I have no choice at this point. Since I've gotten so jazzed up over the conduct of the salespeople, I've went ahead a filed an FCC complaint... we'll see what I hear on that end... perhaps the NJ BPU deserves a strongly worded communication, as well.
> 
> Anyone had a cable card install in NJ lately?
> 
> Regards,
> Bill


A final update, for now...

Well, after forwarding my complaints up the chain a bit at Verizon, I received two calls this week, one from a Verizon corporate representative, and then a second one from an area tech supervisor to escalate my request and schedule an appointment ASAP. The Verizon tech came this morning (Saturday, 1/19), and I am extremely happy to report that both TivoHDs are working beautifully. The tech was very knowledgeable, and had done several TiVo installs. He had some issues getting my premium channels on the 2nd cable card for both TiVos, and I suspect that had something to do with the fact that he did insterted both cable cards at once from the get-go, but I didn't care, because he kept working until all the channels were authorized and working well.

While he was there, I asked him about my issues with the ActionTec router (which I had set up as a bridge to my own D-Link router due to issues with my security system accessing the internet through via UPnP on the ActionTec), and he was able (after calling for authorization since this was set-up as a video only "truck roll") to switch me over from MoCA to LAN (supplying a NIM for the IMG/VOD for my last remaining cable box) as well (taking my ActionTec out of the loop), so that I killed two birds with one stone. I couldn't be happier!

When I had spoken with the Verizon corproate representative, he assured me that verizon does support cable cards, and that the sales representative that gave me some misleading information (both about capabilities and costs) would be receive some corrective training. Further, for my troubles, they would waive the $24.99 "truck roll" (my words, not theirs) fee and $24.99 service downgrade fee.

With respect to cable card availability, it does seem that they are still a little tight on supply, and that the holiday push of TiVo sales likely exceeded their expectations. Hopefully, they'll have it resolved soon.

For now, though, I'll go on the record as a satisfied customer despite the hideous start to this saga. Hopefully, as time goes by, they'll have the remaining kinks in the system worked out. Verizon has only been in the video game for a couple of years after all, and in my area (Mercer County, NJ) for less than a year, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt with respect to a learning curve.

Best of luck to all of you in reaching similar result.

Regards,
Bill

P.S. As a ironic post-script, Verizon switched over my area to the new IMG on their STBs earlier this week, and I have to say that is quite a bit of an improvement over the prior guide in functionality. It's not enough to have me longing for a cable STB or anything, but I dare say that it is a pretty attractive interface.

P.P.S. While he was here, I asked the tech when he anticpated the next HD expansion from Verizon would come, and he indicated that they expect that, by the end of February, there should 100 HD channels. I hope he's right!


----------



## aaronwt

Service downgrade fee? FIOS has a fee for everything. Luckily they also seem to be open to waiving those fees if you complian loud enough.


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## markgrogers

Brand new Series 3 hooked-up yesterday. Ran set-up with Comcast cable per TiVo instructions even though today was FIOS install. Networking (ethernet); TiVo Home Media installed on PC every working great. TiVo connected and updated software. Tested recording, transfer, etc., all perfect.

FIOS Tech arrived and set up cable boxes on 2 TVs. Splitter on coax cable from wall puts signal into Verizon/Moto cable box & into TiVo. Inserted Cable Card into bottom slot per instrucitons. 161-4 error came up immediately. Per other posts here, I waited for progress- hours went by still 161-4 error. 

TiVo still says "161-4 error- Call your cable provider". Verizon Tech Guys says there is no one to call and nothing he can do unless the screen with the cable card ID info gets displayed. He sets up 2 TVs with cable boxes and they work fine. He leaves, I ask him to leave the cable cards.

I try re-booting TiVo, waiting again, still 161-4. I switch-out first card, and place 2nd card in bottom slot- still 161-4. I reboot TiVo again, wait again- nada- still 161-4. Its now been 6 hours, multiple reboots of TiVo, 2 different Moto cable cards both tried in bottom slot. No matter what I have tried, still 161-4 error.

Called Verizon Tech Guy (he gave me his number). He still says nothing he can do unless screen with card info appears. His diagnosis: bad TiVo unit; suggests sending it back. 'Told him TiVo was set-up and functioning perfectly earlier today (pre-FIOS). He has no suggestions- just return bad TiVo unit.

Any help/suggestions much appreciated. 

Thanks if you read this far.

Mark


----------



## Bodie

markgrogers said:


> 161-4 error came up immediately. Per other posts here, I waited for progress- hours went by still 161-4 error.
> 
> TiVo still says "161-4 error- Call your cable provider". Verizon Tech Guys says there is no one to call and nothing he can do unless the screen with the cable card ID info gets displayed. He sets up 2 TVs with cable boxes and they work fine. He leaves, I ask him to leave the cable cards.
> 
> I try re-booting TiVo, waiting again, still 161-4. I switch-out first card, and place 2nd card in bottom slot- still 161-4. I reboot TiVo again, wait again- nada- still 161-4. Its now been 6 hours, multiple reboots of TiVo, 2 different Moto cable cards both tried in bottom slot. No matter what I have tried, still 161-4 error.
> Mark


From: the CableCard installation FAQ:



> 14. There was an error message during the installation of the CableCARDs. Now what?
> 
> Depends on the error message. If you received a 161-4 error code, this can be safely ignored (it is actually a "good" error).


----------



## wmcbrine

PhiTauBill said:


> P.S. As a ironic post-script, Verizon switched over my area to the new IMG on their STBs earlier this week, and I have to say that is quite a bit of an improvement over the prior guide in functionality. It's not enough to have me longing for a cable STB or anything, but I dare say that it is a pretty attractive interface.


I can't agree. Pretty, yes; but the functionality is actually a step backwards in some important respects that you may not have noticed yet.



> _P.P.S. While he was here, I asked the tech when he anticpated the next HD expansion from Verizon would come, and he indicated that they expect that, by the end of February, there should 100 HD channels. I hope he's right!_


That's overstating it a bit, I think. Last I heard, the official word from Verizon (via press releases) was 150 HD channels by the end of the year, but starting with 30 by... an unspecified time in the near future.

They have to cut off their analogs to add more than 30 (and maybe even to add that many), BTW, and do some network upgrades to allow all 150.


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## markgrogers

Yes- thanks- saw this, which is why I waited (and waited...and waited...). 

Per those posts about the "good error", after waiting 10-20 minutes the card was recognized and the "gray" screen that Verizon needs to "activate" the card appears.

Unfortunately for me, no gray screen ever appears- just the 161-4 error. If I try to change screens and go to any other TiVo screen, after a second or two, the 161-4 error screen pops back up.

So, for others, this may have been a "good error" since after ignoring it for 10-20 minutes they progressed beyond it. In my case, I am just !&#37;$#$!ing stuck with 161-4 no matter how long I wait (and I am not kidding when I said I waited hours- with card switches, reboots, etc., in between).

'Still looking for any help/suggestions.

Thanks again.


----------



## wkearney99

Look into the diagnostic screens and see if you're actually getting a signal (it'll show a value measured in dB). Mine showed up as 26dB. 

Do you have another device that could use the cablecards? I plugged mine into my Pioneer plasma. One worked right away. The other required the VZ tech to activate it again. Once both worked I put 'em back in the Tivo. Neither worked, so I swapped them around and rebooted. I re-ran the entire guided setup program, again. That got them working.

My suggestion? With your current setup, remove the cablecards (just pop 'em out of the slot) do a channel scan again. Yes, without the cards inserted. Mine took a while and resulted in someone just shy of 500 channels detected (460-something?). If you don't see that many channels being detected then there's no hope of the cards working. The channels are "there" and detectable without a cablecard. But they can't be tuned and viewed without the card. If your Tivo by itself doesn't detect those channels then you have either a cabling problem or the Tivo itself is bad. You want to make sure it's not a cabling problem FIRST. If necessary, string a known-good RF cable directly from the ONT to the Tivo. It's entirely possible the ONT is mis-configured or bad.

Once that was done I rebooted, again with the cards still not inserted. Upon reboot I inserted the cards and re-ran the whole guided setup again. 

There really is too much mystery involved with these damn things. I would help a lot if there was some sort of more comprehensive debug or monitoring info we could read while they're in the Tivo.


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## dslunceford

bkdtv said:


> For each CableCard, it should say *Connected: yes, EnabledByCP: yes* and *Auth: Subscribed* on an encrypted digital cable channel. Do that for both CableCard 1 and CableCard 2 to determine which CableCard that doesn't match the above.


What if EnabledByCP is "no?" My cable cards seem to work fine (save some blocking on a couple of channels), but as I prepare to switch out to a new THD, I notice that though I get all channels, on the one THD, both cards have "No" for this line.


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## markgrogers

Thanks for suggestions. I have run the guided set-up 2-3 times. I do get channels 2-49. Signal is strong. No other CC devices to test in, unfortunately. Its gotta be the cards. I'm going to make some calls and see what I can find-out.

I agree that there's a bit too much mystery w/ CCs in general. Its still somewhat new, and its certainly a very low priority for Verizon and other companies because its a very small market segment and they won't get rich(er) fast enough off of it to worry too much about it.

The Verizon tech that was here was a very nice, intelligent guy. Displaced from AT&T when they got out of cable, studying for CompTia and Networking certification- so no dummy. But, he barely knew cable cards existed and had only helped with one other CC install at a local electronics store (only got one card working at the store, he says). He did a great job with the regular TV set-ups and was flexible in making sure that audio & video routing via receiver, etc. was done how I wanted.

Thanks again for your suggestions- I'll keep trying here.


----------



## markgrogers

Well, in case anyone else needs this info, my problems were solved by a great guy at the Verizon FiOS Fiber Solutions Center in CA, together with a second FiOS installer visit, and a little help from the TiVo "Cable Card Hotline".

The culprits were a set of 2 DEFECTIVE(?) Motorola Cable Cards. The two original cards showed a persistent "161-4 error" screen and never produced the screens with the necessary information for Verizon to "activate". When swapped-out for a set of 2 new cable cards of the same make, the "MMI" screens (the "gray" screens that indicate they hold info for you cable provider) popped-up in about 3-4 minutes after the cards were installed. They "activated" the cards remotely from the _Fiber Solutions Center_, and we "configured" #1 (bottom) via the TiVo menu and the channels appeared within a few moments.

Card #2 (top) took much longer to show the channels. Even after it was remotely "activated", no channels appeared for about 2 hours. I'm not sure if it was necessary, but I actually completed the TiVo Guided Set-Up with only card #1 configured. After Guided Set-Up was complete, card#2 began showing the channels almost immediately. (I am not sure if card#2 was simply ready after waiting 2 hours, or if the Guided Set-Up completion was the trigger that made it work).

TiVo has never looked so good and the number of channels is staggering. FiOS TV seems like the bargain of the year for us.

Here are a few things I learned:

*1-Verizon here in Eastern PA only offers single-stream cable cards*. The Fiber Solutions Center tech in CA indicated that only single-stream cards are available from Verizon, nationally, so you will need 2 for dual-tuner operation.

*2-Be sure to order the cards when you place your initial order for FiOS service.* I did not, and as a result, trying to "add them" to my "order" was a painful process that cost me hours on hold, and many minor headaches. It seems that once the "order" is placed, it is initially somehow frozen for days afterward. When I called the first time the order was "in progress" and I could not add cards to the hardware ordered. I was advised to call back in a week or so. On the second call, I was told that adding the cards to the order would result in a delay of my installation date by almost a month. I was advised to simply ask the installer to put them in since they allegedly carry spare cards. The first installer I spoke with (installing at my neighbor's home) said he never heard of cable cards and had no idea what I was talking about. The installer who came to my house
DID have cards, but had only assisted on one other cable card install at a dealer showroom (he said they only got one card working and gave up). He was reluctant to install the cards, but he eventually gave it a half-hearted effort. When the "161-4 error" screens came up and remained for more than an hour, he said he had to leave and suggested that I return my brand-new Series 3 TiVo because it was bad. I convinced him to leave the cards, and I tried myself for hours (not knowing that it was the cards that were bad).

*3- Be sure you have your TiVo updated with the newest software and humming along BEFORE the FiOS install.* Even TiVo suggests this as there are tweaks related to the cable cards in the newer releases (in my case 9.2A) AND it pretty much rules out the possibility of bad TiVo hardware if the cable card install gets borked and you need to troubleshoot.

*4- Follow the TiVo instructions for card installation.* Do card #1 in bottom slot first. I also recommend completing the TiVo Guided Set-Up with only card #1 once its "activated" and the high channels (above 49) show up via the card. The installers seem to want to jam them both in at once, and 2 different installers did not even want to look at the TiVo instructions (the 2nd guy eventually did, but only because the Fiber Solutions Tech guy was running the show via phone and wanted to follow the TiVo installation script).

*5- The "161-4 error" screens are NOT always "good errors".* Other posts here indicate that getting the "161-4" error was a good thing. Indeed it is- IF- after a few minutes- the card initializes and the gray "MMI" screens that Verizon needs to activate the cards appear. In my case the "161-4" errors were persistent because the cards were defective. I suggest that if you wait 10 minutes or longer and still see no gray "MMI" screens after inserting a card that you try to convince the installer that you need to try another card (tell him he'll be on his way sooner if he forks over new cards). In my case, BOTH of the first cards supplied to me were dogs.

*6- If you run into trouble, ask the tech to call the Verizon Fiber Solutions Center for help.* The installers were not trained on installation of cable cards- some seem to have no knowledge of their existence. Even when they do know about cable cards they are not happy dealing with DVRs other than the Verizon models they supply. They want to give up quickly and blame it on TiVo if the cards don't work. The tech guy at the _Fiber Solutions Center _was stellar (he owned a TiVo himself). He pulled up TiVo's support site and this community site and read what I was takling about. He got TiVo on the line, and the first TiVo tech gave him a number for a TiVo "_Cable Card Hotline_" in Albuquerque. The guy in Albuquerque held the Fiber Solution Techs hand (they were on speaker phone with the installer and me) and got the job done.

Overall, I was very pleased with Verizon's support. The installers were a little iffy on the cable cards but did a great job with everything else. Once the _Fiber Solution Center_ tech took over, things happened. He got the cards added to the order. He got another installer to come by with new cards. He got on the web and researched stuff, called TiVo, and called me back- twice when there were going to be delays. He got my TiVo humming with 2 new cards within 6 hours. No one has ever taken this much trouble in supporting an installation before, so kudos to Verizon for killer support. (Now if only the cable cards were as reliable).


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## wkearney99

markgrogers said:


> Thanks for suggestions. I have run the guided set-up 2-3 times. I do get channels 2-49. Signal is strong.


If you're only getting 2-49 then you have a problem. I don't mean tune in and SEE those channels. I mean letting a channel scan work its way through the whole set. If it doesn't count up to nearly 500 then you have a cabling or tuner problem.


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## edrego

I purchased 2 Tivo HDs last weekend and got them setup with Verizon on 01/21. At first we had the issue where we the tech tried to active the cards, no channels would come through. He wanted to try and activite them all at once and I told him that we should be doing them one at a time per the Tivo instructions. After a little back and forth, he called into FSC and got a tech on the line. I told them that we should do the activations one at a time and so we did and we got one tivo up and running with both cards with all channels. 

We did the 2nd tivo and channels came up and I thought everything was working, however, no channels above 50 except the rebroadcast of the local channels in HD on channels 801+

So had to make several calls into Verizon support. They tried deactivate/activate and still was the same problem. They escalated the issue to the engineering department and they worked on it for 2 days. Finally, they had a deadline to get it resolved by 5 pm yesterday. I called in at lunch time and talked to a tech and he reviewed the case notes and then performed a "cold init" and he said that this command was not performed before by the previous techs and this should resolve the problem. When I got home and checked the 2nd tivo, all the channels were working and problems resolved.

I suggest that you make sure the installer follows the directions that are from Tivo to the letter. If the cards get activated and you still only see channels 1-49, have the FSC folks do a cold init on the cards. This will essentially wipe all the settings from the cards and reset them to the default settings. Apparently an "deactivate/activate" doesnt wipe the cards settings. (which I wasn't aware) 

Now, I have 2 fully functioning Tivo HDs delivering superior video to my TVs. Wow, the picture quality is amazing!!!!!


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## pickanyone

I haver a tivohd. Verizon installer came last week and tried SEVEN cards in slot 1. All of them could get 2-49 and 801-808. He put the last card he had in slot 2 and it got ALL the channels.

Another guy came and only brought 2 cards. The slot 1 card got 2-49 and 801-808, and slot 2 got ALL the channels again. He then claimed it was a box issue and not a card issue.

I called tivo and was taken to the condition access screen which showed that the slot 1 card had
authorized by CP: NO
and
missing_program_rekey

error

She said that this meant it was a card and not a tivo error. However I was then put through to a tivo superviser who did think it could be a tivo problem. So they have sent me a new box. installer about to arrive...

reading this thread makes me think it might have been a card setup error all along.

will pass on any useful info from my upcoming install


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## markgrogers

Thanks, Pickanyone.

I am curious to hear how switching in the new TiVo works. 'Here's hoping the guy they send has a whole pocketful of cards, because they seem to have a high failure rate.

My TiVo_FiOS setup is the best thing I've ever had for home entertainment. 'Hope yours gets squared-away soon.


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## pmininni

I had my TiVoHD cablecards installed with Fios yesterday. Ran into problem but the post by bkdtv witht he screenshots saved the day. Kudos for the images. Thanx!
- Install ONE at a time.
- Let the installer do the activation and initialization via their laptop.
- My cards would never show EnabledByCP: Yes. This was always no.
- Error 161-4 was common as he troubleshot. I explained to him that others were able to get it done by calling the Solutions number.
- He was working with the Tech trying all different things. Then it worked.
- The tech on the phone did a "Cold Init". This caused Connected: Yes and EnabledByCP: Yes and Auth: SUBSCRIBED to show up. Those three are a must. 
Even a MISSING_PROGRAM_REKEY error means they need to do the init then the Cold Init. Keep in mind that the techs on the phone need to be able to see the cablecard as well. This can take about 10 minutes.
- The second card was the same scenario but different errors in the beggining. Once zapped by their laptop tool IVAAP and then the "Cold Init" it came right up.

Hope this helps.
-Paul

Also, Standard channels and high def channels were the only ones that worked. No encoded channels were visible.


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## coachtrav

I use a series 3 with two cable cards and it works great. Only thing you can not get is the on demand channel 900. Something about nims or something. Not sure what that is but I believe they said it was a software issue. Other than that it works well. I have had an issue with HDMI. On a change of channels sometimes it goes blank. I have to unplug and then repulg to work(just the cable not the power). TIVO says its the tv or the cable or something other than their box. Guess what fios says...its the box or your tv. Anyone have this issue. Is hdmi that much better than RGB cables.


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## wmcbrine

coachtrav said:


> Only thing you can not get is the on demand channel 900.


It's not really on channel 900, or any channel -- Fios VOD is delivered by IP. Which the Tivo _could_ handle, in principle, if Verizon and Tivo cooperated on the software.



> _I have had an issue with HDMI._


It's the TV and/or the Tivo (or, yes, the cable). But Fios isn't relevant there. The issue would remain with any provider (or indeed, with none).

The reason you see it on a change of channels is probably because the output resolution is changing. You could try setting the Tivo to output a fixed resolution. (In principle, this would slightly downgrade a 720p image if you set the output to 1080i, or vice versa. In practice it's hard to see the difference. But it all depends on your set.)



> _Is hdmi that much better than RGB cables._


Nope.


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## vildi98

Initial install of cable cards seemed to go well. I thought both cards were working. Two days later card # 2 no good. After 4 days of calling solution center I finally get someone to agree to send a tech out. Of course many problems getting tech to show up by their "commit time".

Tech came yesterday and tried to a new card no good. His support person of course says its the TIVO, try to reboot. OK fine did a soft boot then told to try a hard boot. Once the tivo booted back on Card one is bad!!!. Try to re run guided set up but it gets stuck at "preparing" after it asks about my premium channels. Now I have no cards working. 

I ask the tech to try the cable card in TV just to be sure its the TIVO. He is kind enough to try and the card no good in TV. So now I am suppose to have an "expert" tech come tonight with new cable cards to try again. Who hopefully will have the cards registered in their database, as that seems to have been the problem with the two bad cards.

My question is really about the reboot wiping out the one card that worked, has this happened to anyone else? Also concerned about tivo getting hung up during guided setup.

Hopefully tonight will go smooth, but based on past experience I'm not hopeful.


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## markgrogers

vildi98 said:


> So now I am suppose to have an "expert" tech come tonight with new cable cards to try again. Who hopefully will have the cards registered in their database, as that seems to have been the problem with the two bad cards.


I was initially told by the installer (the day after) that the problem was that the cards had NOT been "checked-out" of inventory and therefore would not appear as valid on the Verizon system. This turned-out to be false according to the Fiber Solutions tech, who confirmed the cards HAD been "checked-out". I think that the "check-out" thing is away to verify that the cards are Verizon's and not 3rd party or customer-supplied. Apparently it's common that cards that are not "checked-out" are floating around.



vildi98 said:


> My question is really about the reboot wiping out the one card that worked, has this happened to anyone else? Also concerned about tivo getting hung up during guided setup.


Reboots did not change the status of my cards whatsoever. Based upon my experience, I'd guess that its more likely that that card was near-death or never quite fully working and the reboot just exposed the flaw. The failure rate of the cable cards seems very high.

Did you update your TiVo software prior to the install (newest versions for each model are listed on the TiVo site)? The tech on the "TiVo Cable Card Hotline" told us the newer software had tweaks for cable card compatibility. Did your TiVo work properly pre-FiOS install? If so, there is a 99% chance the problems are NOT the TiVo, but are related to buggy/defective cable cards.

Good luck tonight.


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## rucka

Just made the switch a couple days ago from Com**** to FIOS. It was a lengthy process (we did the full TV/FIOS/Phone install), but so far so good. Overall the HD pic is comparable if not better. We also tried the comparison between HDMI and component and HDMI lost in our house on both TVs (one LCD, 1 DLP) -- color me surprised!


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## vildi98

After 2.5 hours tonight and 3 cable cards later I am very happy to say both cards now work. The tech had to deactivate and reactivate cards with a tech at the solution center. Conditional access screen good on both cards. I tested all digital channels and even recorded off both tuners while tech was still here just to be sure. Hopefully my cards won't go bad in couple of days.


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## dsa1971

I have 2 tivo hd boxes with 2 scards in each. All cards appear to be currently working even though one card still lists MISSING_PROGRAM_REKEY on the conditional access screen. The verizon tech today that came out to "repair" things that didn't go right on Saturday told me that if the cards need to be reinitialized then after they are reinitialized I should remove the cards and then reinsert them. Does this make any sense?


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## Marc

If you're getting the MISSING_PROGRAM_REKEY message, they aren't working properly. In my case, one of the two cards was AUTHORIZED, but the other had the same message you saw. I could tune into all channels on one tuner, but the other channel could only tune in channels 2-49.

You should contact the Verizon Fiber Solutions Center (888-553-1555) and have them reinitialize the cards. They can do it over the phone.


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## dsa1971

Marc said:


> If you're getting the MISSING_PROGRAM_REKEY message, they aren't working properly. In my case, one of the two cards was AUTHORIZED, but the other had the same message you saw. I could tune into all channels on one tuner, but the other channel could only tune in channels 2-49.
> 
> You should contact the Verizon Fiber Solutions Center (888-553-1555) and have them reinitialize the cards. They can do it over the phone.


I'm receiving all the channels I am supposed to even with the MISSING_PROGRAM_REKEY message which is only on the one card. I've tested this through the Test Channels option. The other 4 cards say SUBSCRIBED. For now, I may just leave it because Verizon has already wore me out with techs who are just guessing at how to setup and troubleshoot the cablecards.


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## capnkt

Well...I am in the middle of a frustrating game of "Cable Card Lotto".

So far I have one THD with two fully functioning cable cards, and another THD with two non functioning cards.

The Verizon tech was a very good guy, and started out the install by saying "I have only done this one other time.", he basically said "You can install the cards, and I will take care of the computer details".

The first Tivo seemed to work for awhile, then stopped after a couple of hours. Two calls to Verizon, and two days later they seem to be working, with all of the channels.

The other Tivo seems to be a different story. I have been on the phone with tech support four times, with no luck yet. They have re-intialized the cards a couple of times, allegedly did a "cold init" last night, and I still do not have all of the channels.

The information provided from the conditional access screen shows that they are connected, Auth=Subscribed, encryption=conforming CSA, EnabledByCP, etc., however it does vary from time to time. Occasionally they will say "Auth:Unknown". There have been numerous "Repeat guided setup", as well as umpteen "restart system" & hard resets (pull the plug) with no apparent changes or improvements.

The other two cards have been this way for a couple of days. I receive some of the HD's and some of the analogs below CH 49, otherwise the channel lineup seems to be kind of hit or miss. Some are there, and others are "channel not available".

Both units have been upgraded to 1TB internal drives. I have considered putting the stock hard drive back in the unit to see if it made a difference, but the with the other unit running & stable for almost a week, I am a little apprehensive.

I work in the custom A/V business, and would NEVER recommend this process to one of our customers. I am much more patient with these kind of things, and would probably go broke trying to resolve these issues for a customer.

Verizon's video quality & the Techs & CSRs couldn't be nicer. They have always been very patient & understanding on the phone. However, it would be great to have my other Tivo working properly.

Any suggestions?


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## markgrogers

After my own trials and tribulations, here is my humble input:

As long as your TiVos were working properly BEFORE the cable cards were inserted, and you have the TiVo software updated, THEN I would be 95% certain that the problem is *bad cable cards. *

We spent hours tinkering with set-ups, re-boots, switching cards from one slot to another, trying only one card, etc. The ONLY thing that worked was replacing the cable cards with new ones. When we did that, the system set-up and ran by the book (the only deviation from the TiVo instructions in my set-up was that I ran the guided set-up after the first card was recognized before the 2nd card in the unit came online).

As I and other have noted here, the cards themselves are _notoriously_ flaky. I have never seen any other modern electronic component that has such a high DOA/failure rate. Many of the cards are DOA or die after brief usage. The Verizon people don't want to admit this, and point fingers at the TiVo, but it has been noted many times over in posts here that the problems are related to bad cable cards supplied by Verizon.

I agree that if you were in business, then recommending this process to customers would be an repeating nightmare. It is certainly not a priority for Verizon. Until they switch away from the Motorola cards, or insist that Motorola radically improve the quality, the problems will continue.

I can only suggest asking for replacement cards (again). Once mine were replaced, the unit set-up and ran quickly and has been stable now for about a month.

'Hope you draw some lucky cards next time.


----------



## Ron Tobin

We're both in Sarasota, and I've been through a countless number of cards in order to get my Tivo working. And it seems that for every tech visit I've had, it's the first cable card installation the guy has done. You'd think, by now, that they have has some experience with cable cards.


----------



## mamosley

Cable cards really arent as common for installers to deal with as you guys would like to believe. And the stock check out status mentioned by a previous poster happens with stbs some times also. I most freequently get those on self install calls but not on cable cards since those have to come out with a tech any way. Even though I work for vz I have time warner and had to go through several cards before the last tech came out with a multi stream card that worked and havent had any problems since.


----------



## webin

As of yesterday, the Verizon Fiber Solutions Center "doesn't know what a multi-stream cable card is". This would lend evidence that we can't expect them to become available for a while yet. The July 1st date that has been mentioned would seem like the earliest we can expect CSRs to receive training on them... and probably longer for inventory to arrive.

That's kind of annoying considering Comcast customers are getting them now.


----------



## ah30k

Comcast has had just a little more time to get their headends settled out than Verizon don't ya think?

Also, Verizon has their standards set a little higher than Comcast w.r.t. system up time. As a result, they are rolling out new features and systems more cautiously.


----------



## mamosley

webin said:


> As of yesterday, the Verizon Fiber Solutions Center "doesn't know what a multi-stream cable card is". This would lend evidence that we can't expect them to become available for a while yet. The July 1st date that has been mentioned would seem like the earliest we can expect CSRs to receive training on them... and probably longer for inventory to arrive.
> 
> That's kind of annoying considering Comcast customers are getting them now.


You will probably find them on verizon.com/fiostv before the average csr even knows what they are.


----------



## fpp777

I am about 75 days from my new house being finished and I plan on using FIOS with my THD. I have read this entire thread. I was checking to see if anyone has had a recent install and if they had any problems. I am in Keller, TX which is just north of Fort Worth.


----------



## sescofresco

Well, I have been a FiosTV user in the DC Area for a year now and I truely hate the Verizon DVRs. I have 3 currently and all have been replaced at least once. One has the honor of being replaced 3 times. I was a DirecTV user for 7 Years prior with Tivo. I ran across this deal from TiVo http://www.tivo.com/promo/factory_renewed_dvr.html which sparked my interest in TiVo again. I called up Verizon FiosTV and received a quote of *$3.99/month for a SINGLE Stream CableCard*. It still requires a tech but there is no installation fee. Also, no charge for picking up the crappy DVR. So I am heading back to Tivoland. I will start with one THD and slowly migrate.


----------



## jmairs

I'm living in Fairfax VA (just outside of D.C) and switched over to a Costco.com TIVOHD with FIOS

It was a painful 4 hour process using 3 cable cards. Both tuners are recording.

The Home Network Apps (i.e. streaming music and transcoding video from your PC) worked for a couple of days but now my Tivo Desktop software does not think there is a TivoHD on the network. I get a 3 number error code which when I googled shows up on the forums back in 2005. 

I sure wish that Tivo had a Netflix Play it Now plugin!!!

Netflix play it now only takes 20 seconds to buffer and then plays fine. I don't understand why across my own network it takes Tivo much longer to copy and transcode an mpeg 4 avi file. Must be all that transcoding.

Is the Tivo transcoding my mpg2, mpg4 files to the internal Tivo format in order to play them?

John


----------



## clover_kid

[/QUOTE]It still requires a tech but there is no installation fee. Also, no charge for picking up the crappy DVR. So I am heading back to Tivoland. I will start with one THD and slowly migrate.[/QUOTE]

I'm told I have to pay an $80.00 fee to roll a truck. How do you get around this?

Thanks

C_K


----------



## webin

clover_kid said:


> How do you get around this?


Call up and complain to customer service. There's no reason a technician site visit should cost that much. Out of curiosity... that's about what they charge for "installs" that involve moving Ethernet outlets and possibly things related to installing OTNs.


----------



## gomets11

Just got my TivoHD hooked up. I'm in Tampa, FL. There was a little hitch, but after the tech called the FIOS Helpline installation went smoothly.

Steps to follow:
1) Insert card one
2) Have Tech fully authorize it. I guess on normal installs, they only authorize the card/box for the analog channels and then authorize it again for the digital channels. The key is to have them fully authorize the card even though this isn't normal for them.
3) Make sure you got your channels
4) Insert card two
5) Have Tech fully authorize it.
6) Make sure you get channels on both tuners

Questions my Tech had: What is the POD ID?
I got this picture that solved that problem from another thread:


----------



## webin

Just got my TivoHD set up with FiOS and a pair of cablecards. The installer was here for 90 minutes total. Installing the cablecards went relatively painlessly. The installer forgot to record the serial number of the first card, and had to remove it to check, but it didn't complain when it was reinserted. There is a 30 second delay after card insert before the info window pops up, and my installer was fiddling with the menus trying to find the right screen before it popped up on it's own. After being initialized, the card only produced a grey screen (which can be considered a "no video" condition), and I suggested rebooting the TiVo. After a long boot up wait, the card worked fine, and we moved on to the second card... experiencing no trouble.

In testing channels, we discovered that I didn't get anything over channel 49, and no HD over channel 810.... basically nothing in the "high end" national stuff. A call to the tech center got someone to "deactivate and reactivate" the cards, and the installer explained something about their HD boxes getting that second hit automatically. Whatever the case, both cards were up and running.

We then found macroblocking on channel 803 (CW), but no where else. The installer determined that the cable to the wall, the splitters outside, and the wall junction were all working normally, and decided to swap out my ONT box. He "upgraded me from 806 to 812" (which I assume are model numbers), which essentially meant that my Internet was now connected via coax to the router instead of Ethernet. He explained that the coax (MoCa) has more bandwidth available to work with, so while I won't ever need or use that bandwidth, I won't complain. Doing this ONT upgrade corrected the picture quality issue on channel 803, and I haven't seen any other PQ issues on ANY channel.

So now everything is set up, and I'm a pretty happy camper. The install process was easier than I had expected, and I now have HD, and a dual-tuner tivo (which I've never had). I found myself watching boxing on ESPN for no reason other than it was in HD.


----------



## wmcbrine

webin said:


> He explained that the coax (MoCa) has more bandwidth available to work with, so while I won't ever need or use that bandwidth, I won't complain.


Did he also explain that the coax has higher latency? Left that bit out, didn't he?

As for the higher bandwidth, it's specious. In theory, yeah, you could get something like 175 Mbps via MoCA, vs. 100 Mbps via the 100 Mbps Ethernet port on the ONT. Only... a) Verizon doesn't offer any service that fast, and b) they could just make it a GigE port instead, and you'd have 1000 Mbps capability on the Ethernet line -- not possible with MoCA AFAIK.

The point of a MoCA installation is only to save the installers from having to run multiple lines -- one for data, one for video. You should not let them change an existing Ethernet installation to MoCA, and there is no reason for them to do so.

BTW, the ONT swap (and it's ONT, not OTN -- it stands for Optical Network Terminal) was probably a waste; most likely, the only reason it fixed your problem is that the newer ONTs put out a signal that's not as "hot". You could've achieved the same result with an attenuator, which the installer should've known to try. But the Verizon-supplied boxes are more tolerant of "hot" signals than the TiVos, so what the installer's meter labels as "good" sometimes isn't, for TiVo.


----------



## acvthree

If the Ethernet cable is still there, you can connect it yourself, call Verizon and ask to be previsioned for Ethernet. 

If you are not a heavy gamer or just a tweaker (like me), I doubt you will notice a difference.

Al


----------



## webin

acvthree said:


> If the Ethernet cable is still there, you can connect it yourself, call Verizon and ask to be previsioned for Ethernet.
> 
> If you are not a heavy gamer or just a tweaker (like me), I doubt you will notice a difference.


Hmm... I am a gamer, but my online games are more lag tolerant (I don't play twitchy shooters). I'll take the "wait and see" approach to see how it all settles out. The Ethernet cable is still in place, just not hooked into the box.... could that be re-attached to the current box, or does that mean putting the old box back in place?

And yeah, I know it's ONT.... I can just never manage to get it straight in my brain.


----------



## acvthree

I don't know that particular ONT, but just open up the user door and look for an RJ45 connection. I believe all of the ONTs are capable of Ethernet.

Is this an outside setup? If the Ethernet cable is just dangling in the weather, I'd go ahead and make the hookup no matter what just to protect the cable.

You will also need to change settings on the ActionTec router. I don't remember the exact changes, but they were pretty obvious when I looked.

Al


----------



## tivo33

I have had Fios with my S3 for a year now and I love it. However, what I miss on my S3 is the VOD I get on my other Fios Dvr's. I am not familiar with the mcard. I guess this means multistream which would enable VOD????


----------



## Gregor

tivo33 said:


> I have had Fios with my S3 for a year now and I love it. However, what I miss on my S3 is the VOD I get on my other Fios Dvr's. I am not familiar with the mcard. I guess this means multistream which would enable VOD????


No. Multistream means that only 1 cable card is needed. Unfortunately the only Tivo that can use M cards right now is the HD. S3 still needs 2 cards, whether they be Multistream or Singlestream.


----------



## acvthree

No. M-card would theoretically allow you to use a single card for multiple tuners.

That seems to work for the HDTivo, but, for now, doesn't for the S3. You would still need two m-cards and they would function as two single stream cards.

VOD would require something completely different.

ac


----------



## tivo33

Ok, I understand. What does the mcard actually do for me then. I don't care if it is one or two cards. The only benefit is saving $2.99 a month. Is there any hope of VOD with the a Tivo box?????

BTW I spoke to a CSR the other day. I complained about the lack of any new HD channels. He stated that Fios would be adding 200 channels of HD programming this summer. Whether that will happen or not I am not sure.


----------



## Gregor

tivo33 said:


> Ok, I understand. What does the mcard actually do for me then. I don't care if it is one or two cards. The only benefit is saving $2.99 a month. Is there any hope of VOD with the a Tivo box?????
> 
> BTW I spoke to a CSR the other day. I complained about the lack of any new HD channels. He stated that Fios would be adding 200 channels of HD programming this summer. Whether that will happen or not I am not sure.


It just saves you $2.99 a month.

I'm not holding out hope that the current models of Tivo will get VOD.


----------



## wmcbrine

200 channels of HD by this summer greatly exceeds previous estimates, but they are planning a big expansion in HD this year. (It's in their press releases. Don't listen to CSRs.)

Fios VOD on TiVo could in principle be done with just a software update, but it would require TiVo and Verizon to cooperate on it. I'm not holding my breath for it, either -- although, if it's true that the YouTube feature will entail true streaming support, and do it via HME, then I think that makes a Fios VOD app more likely.


----------



## webin

From another thread, moved here to keep on topic:



richsadams said:


> Webin, you say you're "near Portland". Where exactly and how would you rate your overall experience w/Verizon and FIOS? TIA!


I'm out in Hillsboro. I put "near Portland" because I didn't expect anyone to know where Hillsboro is (except those in Lake Oswego, of course).

I went with Verizon for my Internet/Phone provider because when I bought my house in November, the ONT was already installed. I assumed this would make the initial install cheaper, but they still ended up sticking me with the full installation fee because I wanted the ethernet outlet in a different spot (It's presumably free for new installs). When they rolled out TV service in my area, I gave them a few months for the flurry of initial installs to die down before ordering my service.

Now that I have all my services from Verizon (TV/Phone/Internet/Cell), and have the hardware I'm sticking with (CableCards), I'd say that I'm pretty dern happy with the service. I think the TV looks better than anything I've seen, and I'm happy with their lineup and selection of HD channels (which don't cost extra). When I committed to a 2 year agreement, they gave me a free upgrade to 15mbps (download) Internet, which is 2.5x faster than what I had with Comcast (and I've tested to to verify I get that full speed). I've never experienced a service dropout like I had with Comcast. I found all the installers that I've had at my house (3 total, one for each service upgrade I did) to be very knowledgeable and friendly. I actually would have played some Guitar Hero with one of them if he wasn't on the clock.

The customer service and billing side of the experience hasn't been quite as good. I'd rate them even, or a little below what I'd expect from Comcast. Upon signing up, I asked for Double Play (TV wasn't available yet), and it took them about 6-8 weeks to actually get me enrolled. After a couple calls (and one two hour wait on hold), I stumbled on a wonderful CS rep (who happened to be in Seattle instead of Texas) that fixed the billing issues and refunded the extra money I was paying for each service separately. It took the billing department 3 months to get me properly enrolled in One Bill, which combines Cell and Triple Play bills into one statement. Finally, after 4 months now, they still haven't set up the Direct Payment which I asked for in November, and I'm told I should enter that online.

So overall, I'm a pretty happy Verizon customer. As long as you don't have to interact with the customer service department very often, it's an excellent experience. As of right now, I see no reason why I would ever want to go back to Comcast or any other service provider. In the coming years, I really think that the size of the delivery pipe will be the determining factor in the quality of services provided. Verizon just has so much room to work with there's no way Comcast can compete (in number of channels, picture quality, internet speed, etc) unless they upgrade their network to run fiber to the home like Verizon has.


----------



## richsadams

webin said:


> From another thread, moved here to keep on topic: <snip>


Excellent info! Thanks! :up:


----------



## necrotaur

Hey guys,

Long time lurker, first time poster. I was an avid Tivo fan since my series 2 DTV boxes. I switched to FIOS this past December and finally broke down to buy a TiVoHD. Love the box and have Verizon in to do the CableCard installs today. This is the first one the installer has done, so wish me luck! I'll report back how it goes.

-- Steve


----------



## necrotaur

Ok,

Tech was here and install was done. Honestly, I think the installs seem to be smoother as long as the field person is willing to call in AND the support people on the other side have been dealing with TiVos more often.

Couple quick notes on the install:

- The tech hung out in his van for a while and called another tech. The "other" guy told him he shouldn't do TiVos because he heard of other guys who did installs and broke them. He suggested that my tech give me the cards and install them myself, including activation. I told him I am more than happy to put the cards in myself, but he gets a direct line to support where I would be on the line for an hour or more and I would like him to activate them. He was willing to do the entire install after that. Overall he was super friendly and was actually the same guy who did my original install.

- There have been reports of multistream cards in the field. This install was still two s-cards. Activation was fine on both cards first time around. I tested both tuners and everything looks ok.

- No line tests were done and no attenuators were installed. I'll check later, but I have my own Radioshack variable attenuator that I used for my OTA signal. I'll use that if I run into the pixelation issues others have reported.


So anyway, I am not a big poster on these boards, but I have found it to be an very valuable reference. I thought I would post my experience, in case it helps others.


Let me know if you guys have any questions that I didn't report on.

-- Steve


----------



## lew

The Verizon STB uses MoCA. The program information (guide data), VOD and maybe PPV is done via data not video. Log into the router, you can see the IP address assigned to your STB. No need for wireless no need to run a cat 5wire to the box.

The installer uses a splitter, one leg goes to the modem/router and the other leg goes to distribute video. MoCA doesn't save any installation time or material. Is a few feet of coax and a splitter less expensive then a few feet of cat 5? Are you be suggesting Verizon run a Cat 5 cable to each STB? That's a bigger installation issue and I'm not sure if the STB even support ethernet.

MoCA is required if the customer is getting FiOS TV. A customer just getting FiOS for internet might be able to request ethernet. I think Verizon prefers MoCA so they don't have to change it if/when the customer adds video.

edited to add I don't know if you can convince an install to skip MoCA if you're not using any of Verizon's STB. They may want an install that easily allows you, or a future customer at your address, a Verizon STB. It's a shame the tivo S3 doesn't natively support MoCA. It would be nice to worry about running cat 5 or having to use a wireless adapter.



wmcbrine said:


> The point of a MoCA installation is only to save the installers from having to run multiple lines -- one for data, one for video. You should not let them change an existing Ethernet installation to MoCA, and there is no reason for them to do so.


----------



## lew

wmcbrine said:


> Fios VOD on TiVo could in principle be done with just a software update, but it would require TiVo and Verizon to cooperate on it. I'm not holding my breath for it, either -- although, if it's true that the YouTube feature will entail true streaming support, and do it via HME, then I think that makes a Fios VOD app more likely.


FiOS is going to go to IPTV instead of the SDV route cable companies are using. It's the same technology as VOD. I'm hoping tivo is working on a solution, othewise I wasted the money I spent on lifetime service.


----------



## ilh

lew said:


> MoCA doesn't save any installation time or material. Is a few feet of coax and a splitter less expensive then a few feet of cat 5?


Sure it does. They only need to route one cable to the STB location instead of two, and more importantly, in many cases they are likely reusing existing coax already in place.

The interesting thing with respect to TiVo is the TiVo doesn't need any additional _hardware_ to talk to FiOS for VOD, PPV, or potential SDV since it could just use its ethernet port for the IP communication. That is, if FiOS and TiVo could work together to get the software to interoperate.


----------



## wmcbrine

lew: There's MoCA from the router to the STB, and there's MoCA from the router to the ONT -- two separate issues. MoCA will be used between the router and STB regardless of what's used between the router and the ONT. The connection between the router and the ONT is all I'm talking about.

My own network looks like this:



Code:


+---------+
|   ONT   |
+---------+
 |       |
 |cat5   |coax
 |       |
 |   +----------+
 |   | splitter |
 |   +----------+
 |       |    |coax
+-----------+ v
|  router   |
+-----------+
 |cat5  |cat5
 v      v

My FiOS was first installed before they even offered TV, so I just got the cat5 line; later, they added a coax line. In this configuration, data travels from the STB over coax to the router, but from the router over cat5 to the ONT.

What Verizon wants to do now, for new installs, is this:



Code:


+---------+
|   ONT   |
+---------+
         |
         |coax
         |
     +----------+
     | splitter |
     +----------+
         |    |coax
+-----------+ v
|  router   |
+-----------+
 |cat5  |cat5
 v      v

...which is fine, I guess, if you don't mind the extra latency or the lock-in to the Actiontec router. You will note the savings (to Verizon) consists of one less, probably long, cat5 run -- not that expensive in itself; it's mainly the labor they're saving. But in the case where there's _already_ a cat5 run, then there is no reason, even from Verizon's perspective, to switch the ONT <-> router data traffic over to MoCA. That's what we're talking about here. Probably the only reason it happened was poor training (i.e., "just do them all this way").


----------



## richsadams

necrotaur said:


> Ok,
> 
> Tech was here and install was done. Honestly, I think the installs seem to be smoother as long as the field person is willing to call in AND the support people on the other side have been dealing with TiVos more often.


Hey Steve, welcome to the forum! :up: And thanks for the excellent post. We tend to focus on the horror stories and it's good to know that things can and do go well...probably most of the time...particularly with the new kids on the block (FIOS TV).

I'm getting more excited about them coming out and laying the lines now so I can jump on board. Buh-bye Comcast!


----------



## winter

lew said:


> MoCA is required if the customer is getting FiOS TV. A customer just getting FiOS for internet might be able to request ethernet. I think Verizon prefers MoCA so they don't have to change it if/when the customer adds video.


I have FIOS TV and I don't have MoCA at all in my network - as you noted later you only need MoCA if you use VZ's STBs, I am using TivoHD.



> I don't know if you can convince an install to skip MoCA if you're not using any of Verizon's STB. They may want an install that easily allows you, or a future customer at your address, a Verizon STB.


 It is definitely possible - in my case the ethernet cable from the ONT to the inside already existed so there was no extra work required for them to enable it (e.g. they didn't have to run an extra cable). Just FYI.


----------



## aaronwt

When I signed up for FIOS lat Summer that is what I told them I wanted. An Ethernet connection. They wrote down on the work order to bring a specific model ONT that had Ethernet capability. Otherwise they would have brought a different model which was only capable of MoCA. And I've tried the Ethernet connection with the Actiontec and my Dlink router. The Dlink router beats teh Actiontec hands down. The Actiontec might work well with a few devices, but I have 3 dozen devices connected on my Network and with the Actiontec things were't as fast as they should be. Using my Dlink, all my connections are very fast and have no bandwidth problems like with the Actiontec.


----------



## ilh

Bandwidth between your devices or bandwidth to the Internet?


----------



## dforemsky

Has anybody had any luck with having Verizon just send you the cable cards and install them yourself? It seems kind of silly to pay the truck roll fee just to install the cards. The instructions seem pretty straightforward to follow and I'd rather just make a phone call or two rather than waiting around for a tech and paying the extra fee.


----------



## aaronwt

ilh said:


> Bandwidth between your devices or bandwidth to the Internet?


To the Internet. the Actiontec didn't do a good job of prioritizing the bandwidth like my Dlink router does.


----------



## Flyinace2000

I read through most of this thread, but was wonding if VZFIOS was sending out M cards yet? I am thinking about getting one or two TivoHD's and would rather only to have to pay for one cable card and not 2 per tivo.


----------



## necrotaur

I had my cablecards installed about a week and a half ago, and they were still s-cards.

-- Steve


----------



## Flyinace2000

That's disappointing.


----------



## Flyinace2000

I also lucked out and got the ethernet and coax run from my ONT to my "server room" (aka laundry room depending on who you ask in my house). Though, i had FIOS internet installed nearly a year ago and video service just 2 weeks ago.


----------



## dpark

necrotaur said:


> I had my cablecards installed about a week and a half ago, and they were still s-cards.
> 
> -- Steve


My install was 5 days ago and they were S-cards as well.


----------



## Flyinace2000

I just called FIOS and they confirmed that they only have S-Cards for now and they are not self install. Its gonna cost a $80 to have a tech come out. BOOO


----------



## richsadams

Flyinace2000 said:


> I just called FIOS and they confirmed that they only have S-Cards for now and they are not self install. Its gonna cost a $80 to have a tech come out. BOOO


Did you already have FIOS...adding a TiVo to the mix or are they charging you an $80 install fee as a new customer?


----------



## Flyinace2000

I just had FIOS TV installed 2 weeks ago and am swapping out the HD DVR and a HD STB with 4 cable cards. Not thrilled about the $80

-Will


----------



## TheBar1

Flyinace2000 said:


> I just had FIOS TV installed 2 weeks ago and am swapping out the HD DVR and a HD STB with 4 cable cards. Not thrilled about the $80
> 
> -Will


Will - I don't think the truck roll should cost you that much. They may be charging you to remove your FiOS DVR, in which case you might be better off returning it to a local office. The truck roll to install your CableCards should not be costing you more than 20-25 bucks...


----------



## Flyinace2000

Can anyone confirm this cost?

Really? I will call them. Their local office is is only 15 or 20 minutes from my house and only 5 minutes from work.

Thanks!

-Wil


----------



## Scyber

TheBar1 said:


> Will - I don't think the truck roll should cost you that much. They may be charging you to remove your FiOS DVR, in which case you might be better off returning it to a local office. The truck roll to install your CableCards should not be costing you more than 20-25 bucks...


I think fios increased the costs of the truck roles after the new year. To $79.99 IIRC.


----------



## Flyinace2000

Either way, i am calling right now to see what they say.


----------



## Flyinace2000

$80 is what it costs. Booooo


----------



## Flyinace2000

Can i just buy the card's on ebay? I found a guy seling SA PKM800 for about $30?


----------



## Gregor

Flyinace2000 said:


> Can i just buy the card's on ebay? I found a guy seling SA PKM800 for about $30?


\

Probably not. From what I've read here, no cable company will activate a card you own.


----------



## ilh

...and Verizon uses Motorola CableCARDs.


----------



## Flyinace2000

I guess thats the price i pay for not getting cable cards when i originally signed up.


----------



## webin

I paid for three service calls before I settled on my current TivoHD/CableCard setup:
1) Initial install, which included moving an ethernet cable and hooking up a router, but no TV
2) Install TV service once it became available, which included running coax through the side of my house to get to the router, adding a set top box, and taking out the ethernet cable from the first install.
3) Install cable cards and remove the set-top box.

This was all within the span of 3 months. It pays to get everything done right the first time, but it's not terrible to do it bit by bit.


----------



## Flyinace2000

At least i got my first install free


----------



## aaronwt

ilh said:


> ...and Verizon uses Motorola CableCARDs.


So does Comcast here. All my boxes( on Comcast and FIOS) have motorola single stream cards.


----------



## joshablett

Hi - apologies if this is a dup question, but I couldn't find it via search or browsing.

The only thing keeping me from signing up for FIOS is that their reps tell me that while they can install two CableCards in my Series 3 Tivo, neither of the CableCards will be able to get HD content. I'm in the Rhode Island area, so not sure if that varies regionally.

Has anyone else had that experience? Or, more importantly, is anyone getting HD content on their Series 3 over both CableCards?

Thanks in advance -- Josh


----------



## ilh

Yes, you can get HD with the S3 and THD. The reps are, as usual, clueless.


----------



## TheBar1

Scyber said:


> I think fios increased the costs of the truck roles after the new year. To $79.99 IIRC.


It's possible the prices have gone up, but I had 2 CCs installed on my new TiVo HD on 2/11. I was billed $14.50 for that service call. I was not billed for the subsequent service call later that week to swap out one of the CCs that was not working properly.

The FiOS HD DVR pick-up fee is something like $40, so surrendering it to a local office should save you some $$$. Just make sure you call FiOS Customer Service to get an Equipment Return authorization code (also called the Pick-Up Work Order #). You'll need to provide that when you fill out the paperwork at the local office. In NJ, I was able to get an authorization code by calling 908-717-5402.

One last tip - Don't forget to review your bill carefully after you return your FiOS DVR. If you're like me, FiOS is billing you a month in advance for the DVR Rental fee (common industry practice), which means that it should not only drop-off as a line item on your next bill, but that you should also get a credit based on the day of the billing month you returned the equipment. FIOS Billing being so reliable (NOT!), of course I had issues with not getting charged/credited properly for this, but a call to the number above helped me straighten that out - at least until I get next month's bill 

Good luck!


----------



## richsadams

joshablett said:


> Hi - apologies if this is a dup question, but I couldn't find it via search or browsing.
> 
> The only thing keeping me from signing up for FIOS is that their reps tell me that while they can install two CableCards in my Series 3 Tivo, neither of the CableCards will be able to get HD content. I'm in the Rhode Island area, so not sure if that varies regionally.
> 
> Has anyone else had that experience? Or, more importantly, is anyone getting HD content on their Series 3 over both CableCards?
> 
> Thanks in advance -- Josh


Welcome to the forum. :up:

As ilh says, you should have no problems getting any/all channels you'd like including anything broadcast in HD. Just make sure that one of those reps isn't also an installer!


----------



## Flyinace2000

I called the regular 800 umber and they specifically said that i would not save any money by bringing the boxes back myself. I will try calling that 908 number in the morning.


----------



## holee

The cable card installer should be able to pick up an deactivate the Verizon set boxes. Mine did. He even left me the remote.


----------



## Flyinace2000

I know he is able to do this, but i don't need to pay him $40 to do so when i work minutes from their offices. Point is to try and avoid the $80 fee for him to place cards in my Tivo.


----------



## rocko

Flyinace2000 said:


> I know he is able to do this, but i don't need to pay him $40 to do so when i work minutes from their offices. Point is to try and avoid the $80 fee for him to place cards in my Tivo.


No getting around that. Even if you had the cards and popped them in yourself the tech still needs to authorize them. Have him return the box while he's there and save that fee at least.


----------



## Flyinace2000

Well the TiVos will be delivered on thrusday but CC install won't be until the 28th.


----------



## TheBar1

Flyinace2000 said:


> I know he is able to do this, but i don't need to pay him $40 to do so when i work minutes from their offices. Point is to try and avoid the $80 fee for him to place cards in my Tivo.


Will - You might want to reschedule your appointment as just the install of your two new CableCards in the TiVo. This is what I did, which resulted in the $14.50 truck roll mentioned in my earlier post. Once My TiVo was running without any problems for a few days, I packed-up my FiOS HD DVR and returned it to my Verizon local office. I ended up paying for a few extra days rental on the FiOS DVR, but this may have eliminated all of the potential headaches I could have had with a Verzon CSR that might have over-charged me for the truck-roll. Just make sure they don't smack you with an "extra outlet" install fee.

If you're not in NJ, the 908 phone number I posted earlier may not work. I found out about the number because it was posted next to the phone in my FiOS Local Office (Denville, NJ). I showed up there with my FiOS HD DVR, and was told to call that number and get the return authorization code from the CSR before coming back up to the counter to fill out the paperwork. Annoying, but worth saving the money. Maybe you could do the same thing (play dumb and not call for an auth number until you walk into your FiOS office).

Again, good luck.


----------



## Flyinace2000

When did you have yours installed?


----------



## TheBar1

Flyinace2000 said:


> When did you have yours installed?


I had the CableCards installed in a new TiVo HD on 2/11/08. I turned in my FiOS HD DVR on 2/29/08.


----------



## Flyinace2000

Thanks. I will call them.

just curious, what part of NJ you from. I am in Oakland.


----------



## Scyber

TheBar1 said:


> I had the CableCards installed in a new TiVo HD on 2/11/08. I turned in my FiOS HD DVR on 2/29/08.


Sorry, My original post was wrong. The original plan was to increase rates at the new year, I believe it was pushed back to mid-february/early March. I think this was to coincide with the SD DVR release. I believe This is also when they increased the Cablecard rate to 3.99.

The new rate for non-repair/non-new-install for truck rolls is $80. You might be able to convince a CSR to get a cheaper rate, but $80 is the standard rate.

There was a post on dslreports.com detailing the new rates. I'll post a link later tonight when I have a faster connection for searching.


----------



## Flyinace2000

Thanks!


----------



## TheBar1

Flyinace2000 said:


> Thanks. I will call them.
> 
> just curious, what part of NJ you from. I am in Oakland.


I'm in Parsippany now, but I lived in Oakland a long time ago. Small world.


----------



## TheBar1

Scyber said:


> There was a post on dslreports.com detailing the new rates. I'll post a link later tonight when I have a faster connection for searching.


I did some digging on the DSLReports FiOS Forums and here's the thread I found:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19602630-Fees-for-service-visit-swapping-STBs

Sounds like you may be out of luck, Will. Sorry...


----------



## monsterbucket

I'm on the phone with Verizon right now to switch out my HD DVR box for a pair of cable cards to use on my HD Tivo which is being shipped to me as I type.

There won't be a tech visit required says the phone dude - he is mailing me the pair of cable cards and I will do a self-install. Beyond that he is mailing me a recovery kit (read: empty box) for me to mail back the HD DVR.

If someone is planning to do the same thing as me (replace their HD DVR with a pair of cable cards) request that it be a self-install and save yourself the tech visit fee.

----EDIT----

So I thought it sounded too good to be true. Phone dude came back and said this would require a tech visit. Will cost me 24.99 for the visit, but the dude will take the HD DVR with him. UBER LAME!!!!


----------



## TheBar1

monsterbucket said:


> I'm on the phone with Verizon right now to switch out my HD DVR box for a pair of cable cards to use on my HD Tivo which is being shipped to me as I type.
> 
> There won't be a tech visit required says the phone dude - he is mailing me the pair of cable cards and I will do a self-install. Beyond that he is mailing me a recovery kit (read: empty box) for me to mail back the HD DVR.
> 
> If someone is planning to do the same thing as me (replace their HD DVR with a pair of cable cards) request that it be a self-install and save yourself the tech visit fee.


If this self-install goes through as described, monsterbucket, you'll be the first person I've heard this working for. FiOS CSRs have been notorious for offering a self-install option, only to backtrack days later after they learn it's not feasible. Please let us know if you actually receive the CableCards in the mail, as promised.


----------



## monsterbucket

Sorry about the misleading glimmer of hope in my first post... at least the phone dude came back during the call and scheduled the appointment for me rather than leaving me to believe I was going to get the cablecards in the mail.

Install is scheduled for next Thursday - I am hoping I have the Tivo in hand by then ;-)

I'll post again once the install is complete. Hopefully it will be as smooth as my initial install was.


----------



## cre8tor

Just ordered my CCs today, no mention of a truck roll or install appt. CS rep said they should be here in a few working days. $3.99 each

Pics will be provided if they actually show up.


----------



## Flyinace2000

Where are you located.....why were you only charge $25 and i was charged 80?


----------



## Cgrisamore

Flyinace2000 said:


> Where are you located.....why were you only charge $25 and i was charged 80?


Been a FIOS user now for over a year and in February finally got a HD TV and decided to retire my Series 2 Tivo for a Tivo HD. Verizon came out and did my cablecard install for free! They told me that $25 was the regular price for a technician to come out but they waived the fee as I had also requested a high definition STB (for a separate TV) and they were experiencing a nationwide shortage. My reply to this was "Hmm..guess I better call DirecTV". In addition to the totally free cablecard install, they sent me a $25 Visa gift card and gave me a $10 per month credit for the next 6 months.

No I am NOT making this up.


----------



## monsterbucket

Flyinace2000 said:


> Where are you located.....why were you only charge $25 and i was charged 80?


I'm located in MA, just north of Boston. Not sure why you're getting charged $80, but all I can advise is that you call up and get it either reduced or waved...


----------



## ilh

Anyone in the Boston FiOS area have luck with dropping of STBs without having to pay for a truck roll? I want to get rid of their HD DVR and a basic SD box, but definitely don't want to pay $80 to do it.


----------



## Flyinace2000

Check out this leaked Verizon docment found at the Consumerist.com









Truck rolls now cost 79.99 for STB installs.

Full Article


----------



## richsadams

Flyinace2000 said:


> Check out this leaked Verizon docment found at the Consumerist.com
> 
> Truck rolls now cost 79.99 for STB installs.


Amazing...but sadly not surprising.


----------



## TheBar1

Flyinace2000 said:


> Check out this leaked Verizon docment found at the Consumerist.com
> 
> Truck rolls now cost 79.99 for STB installs.


It's cut-off, but there seems to be some language in that same bullet to suggest that self-installation may be an option to help avoid the truck roll fee. Very interesting!


----------



## Flyinace2000

4 CableCards installed! At first they were not locking onto any channels, but after a reboot both cards worked perfectly. The bad news was that this was the first TiVoHD (cable card) install, but he was told to do the cards ONE at a time.


----------



## siersema

Flyinace2000 said:


> At least i got my first install free


The cost to roll a truck may have a $80 fee. But if I follow your thread correctly you are still inside the 30 day window of customer satisfaction. Tell them that they can install the cards to keep you or you can ask them to remove everything and restore you to the previous carrier. They may rethink their motivation and want to retain customers - customer retention is high on all vendors' lists.


----------



## Flyinace2000

I think i am gonna ask for a credit since i had to do most of the install my self. The tech never did a cable card install before and i had to do most of the work. Or i might just send Verizon an invoice for the 1 hour professional development i gave to one of their techs.


----------



## webin

Flyinace2000 said:


> Or i might just send Verizon an invoice for the 1 hour professional development i gave to one of their techs.


That's hilarious... the thought of billing them for training. I was lucky in that my CC installer had "done a few tivos" before, and was able to do mine without any trouble. He actually knew how to switch the active tuner before I did (I was new to dual-tuners).


----------



## cre8tor

Well, 

We are all set up with our CCs now. The story goes as follows - spoke with two CS reps who said repeatedly that the CCs would be sent via mail and that we would recieve them in a couple of days.

Two days go by and we receive the automated phone call about an installer appointment, we say what the hell just have the installer handle it. Installer arrives and clearly states that it's only $25.00 to do the install of which I question several times and ask "isn't it $80 for a truck roll" and he says nope it's only a $25 charge for the CC install

He's unable to complete the install because we had yet to set up our Tivo account (my fault) but he offers to leave the cards and tells us that we can activate them.

I activated the cards with one small problem - the second card had to be activated twice, no big deal all is well now. 

Now we just wait and see what shows up on the bill.  - BTW we never received the CCs in the mail


----------



## richsadams

cre8tor said:


> Well,
> 
> We are all set up with our CCs now. The story goes as follows - spoke with two CS reps who said repeatedly that the CCs would be sent via mail and that we would recieve them in a couple of days.
> 
> Two days go by and we receive the automated phone call about an installer appointment, we say what the hell just have the installer handle it. Installer arrives and clearly states that it's only $25.00 to do the install of which I question several times and ask "isn't it $80 for a truck roll" and he says nope it's only a $25 charge for the CC install
> 
> He's unable to complete the install because we had yet to set up our Tivo account (my fault) but he offers to leave the cards and tells us that we can activate them.
> 
> I activated the cards with one small problem - the second card had to be activated twice, no big deal all is well now.
> 
> Now we just wait and see what shows up on the bill.  - BTW we never received the CCs in the mail


Thanks for the post...at least there's hope. :up:


----------



## JacksTiVo

richsadams said:


> Amazing...but sadly not surprising.


I am having Verizon FiOS installed next week. I had ordered two CableCards for my S3 and one digital converter box for my S2. I later realized that I needed an additional digital converter box (DCB) for another TV and called them back. A very knowledgeable CSR told me not to modify my order since it will change the install date and that she would check on the order status two days after the install date. If completed she would then have a DCB mailed to me for a "self-install".

If this works, then I would suggest that when ordering an additional CC, STB or DCB that you indicate that you want to do a "self-install" to avoid a "truck roll". Who knows it may save you the cost of a truck roll.

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that Verizon FiOS is working very hard to avoid getting a reputation that the cable companies have with respect to poor customer service. I am old enough to remember the good old days before the divestiture of AT&T, when a knowledgeable telephone company installer would arrive on schedule to fix or install telephone service at "no charge" to you. (Of course, you paid for it by other means since telephone service was expensive with long distance calls costing upwards of $1.00 per minute to to call the West Coast.)

In any event, I hoping I will have a pleasant experience with Verizon FiOs service.


----------



## holee

I've found that Verizon FiOS CS can be touch and go, but it's more due to their system than the people.

Everyone I've talked to genuinely cares and tries their best. But there is so much bureaucracy and miscommunication internally that mistakes get made - a lot. I've found it helps to get one or two people as your "sponsors" whenever something goes wrong. 

When it gets fixed, it gets done right, but sometimes it takes a while.


----------



## johncoyne

I just switched from Direct TV to FIOS this past week hooking up two HD Tivo units. Everything is working great (except for that freezing problem that has occured that a lot of people have already posted about!)
John, NY


----------



## Primate

I had FIOS installed Monday, I had ordered on the internet and didn't see anywhere to order cable cards for my Tivo HD. 
When the installers got here I asked them if they happened to have any cable cards with them. They said they didn't but would check if another tech nearby had them. A little later one of them left and came back with the cards.
He said he hadn't done a TIVO install in several months but was able to reach someone on the phone to walk him through it.
The entire install including the cabling and ONT installation went great. I have no complaint about them.
The only problem I see is the installers said the fiber crew ran my fiber from the wrong node and they'll have to come back and rerun it.


----------



## marioc21

I just signed up for FIOS TV on Monday. I didn't see the option for cablecards either. I started a chat session with one of the online agents and they told me to put my order in and then call Verizon customer service once I had my order number. I did that and the next day I called and made the change to my order. I put two cable cards into the order since the Verizon rep told me they don't offer the multistream cards.


----------



## monsterbucket

Verizon is at my house right now installing the cable cards to replace my HD DVR.

I am a tad worried as my wife just called and I talked to the tech - sounds like he hasn't done this before.

First he said he would install only one cable card to which I told him I had ordered two so as to take advantage of the dual tuner Tivo. 

then he asked if one cable card went into the tivo and the other went into my tv. I let him know that both go in the Tivo.

Is it that rare for someone to swap out their HD STB from Verizon for a Tivo with cable cards? After reading through this thread it sounds like there are very few technicians who have done this sort of thing before...


----------



## richsadams

monsterbucket said:


> Is it that rare for someone to swap out their HD STB from Verizon for a Tivo with cable cards? After reading through this thread it sounds like there are very few technicians who have done this sort of thing before...


I'd say it's much more common for well-established cableco tech's to have swapped out generic DVR's for TiVo than for Verizon tech's only because Verizon hasn't been in the television signal delivery business very long. That said, the last Comcast tech that installed our cable cards admitted that he had only done it twice before. I've no idea how long he'd been contracting for Comcast, but I suspect that they have a revolving door problem based on various posts here and elsewhere. On the positive side he did get it right for the most part.

Now we're going to switch to FIOS so I'm a bit apprehensive as well.


----------



## hmm52

Hey Rich

I don't know how soon your FiOS installation is but I wouldn't sweat it, except for one thing. I assume it's a new territory with many green trainees, as in my case. The first tech(s) to show up might not have a clue about cablecards or TiVos but a supervisor will soon arrive who knows them inside & out. So not to worry about this as long as you've got the day. My install went from 8:00AM-8:30PM since they replaced every last piece of quad shield I had installed (too thick for their terminals) and because of card authorization difficulties. My wife wasn't real pleased to come home to 4 techs in the living room; me & the Big Boss in the bedroom trying to fire up the 4th card, cats hiding under the comforter on bed. Can't say they weren't thorough.

The green people to be wary about are the ones you won't see - at the service depot and in billing. My cards were not registered properly at the depot before they went out on the truck. Much time was consumed trying to authorize them. The Big Boss eventually was able to force all 4 through with many angry phone calls. A mistake. I don't want to think about the hours I wasted last year trying in vain each month to get the billing corrected. Eventually it came to a head in December, as I knew it would, when FSC said they couldn't setup a service call because of equipment discrepancies in their system. An inventory with FiOS tech had to be done, all cards pulled, and callbacks made to two different departments to make 1 step forward. Once an incorrect entry gets into Verizon's *SYSTEM*, nothing short of a nuclear weapon will dislodge it. Known issue. After all this, they still billed me incorrectly for an additional outlet, swapped out for phantom STB. As 1 time $20 charge, pointless to call. The moral of the story is to check the work order carefully. If there's anything wrong with it, I'd postpone the install. Less aggravation in the long run even if the cost consequence is not much.


----------



## richsadams

Thanks for the positive words hmm52...I think.  It does seem that there are more complaints about billing and customer service than about the Verizon techs.

They just finished installing the lines in our neighborhood (the streets and driveways are still covered with spray paint graffiti!  ) but haven't sent out their offers yet. They did the same in my brother-in-law's area across town and things seem to be going well there so hopefully the local FIOS Folks have some experience under their belts by now.

Not sure when it will happen (our install), but I keep reading everyone's posts here with great interest. Thanks to all for the valuable feedback! :up:


----------



## monsterbucket

Even though the tech who came initially yesterday had to call for backup the install was completed in under 4 hours. 

The first guy had never done a cable card install, but neither had the second guy. My wife said they were both very friendly, but said she was shocked when the techs had to call the regular service number (same as you or I) to get anywhere.

the signal looks great and both cards are working flawlessly now. 

I guess I got lucky on the install, now I gotta wait to see how they handle the bill


----------



## ah30k

After getting my letter saying FiOS in my area was going all digital and I could get free digital adapters I called and ordered two adapters. Simple phone call and they are mailing them! I am guessing at this point that they are DCT700s but am not sure. With this switch from regular STBs, I can save 2x$4.99 each month. The only down-side to replacing my SD-STBs with the digital adapter is that I will likely have to move from serial cable control to IR-blaster control. 

Perhaps the wrong forum since it is not S3 specific, but... WWYD?


----------



## hmm52

To be fair, the Verizon billing personnel were always pleasant and tried their best to straighten things out - definitely *not* always the case with Comcast. And they were able to waive & credit back one time charges. It was the incorrect recurring ones that they were powerless to change in the *SYSTEM*. It isn't only VZ. It's gotten to the point where I loathe giving up my credit card for recurring charges as it's often worth your life to cancel.


----------



## Jamisohn

ah30k said:


> After getting my letter saying FiOS in my area was going all digital and I could get free digital adapters I called and ordered two adapters. Simple phone call and they are mailing them! I am guessing at this point that they are DCT700s but am not sure.


I also called Verizon to get the free digital adapters. They arrived 3 days later, and they are the DCT700s.


----------



## ilh

I just received my free DCT700. I'm not sure it works though as I couldn't get any picture out of it over composite (didn't check RF out). I'll look into it more this evening.

BTW, when we called to request it, we also requested to return an HD STB and an SD STB. The DCT700 arrived with two RMA numbers and UPS shipping labels. Since I don't have the STB boxes, it says I can take them to a UPS Store where they will package them for free. The net result is it appears I can return the two STBs for free without a truck roll. Yea.


----------



## webin

I had cable cards installed about 6 weeks ago... I just reviewed my Verizon bill for that time frame and discovered I was not charged the "truck roll" fee for the site visit.


----------



## hmm52

Me neither. But was charged $20 twice for additional outlets. Once phantom. Once legit. Never have been charged for any visit back to 11/06.


----------



## ira_l

hmm52 said:


> Me neither. But was charged $20 twice for additional outlets. Once phantom. Once legit. Never have been charged for any visit back to 11/06.


I was charged $39 in three equal installments for one additional outlet. What does this mean?


----------



## hmm52

How many guesses do I have? One of my add. outlet $20 charges was billed in 3 installments, the other not. Initial service order seemed really screwy so I asked for confirmation e-mail of exact numbers. I used this later to negotiate bills which didn't of course match. Best bet for you is to tell them you were misinformed of charges upfront.

First try: *Verizon's billing department is very creative.*


----------



## Flyinace2000

My first bill was all messed up. But the rep i spoke to was very helpful and credited the amounts needed. There were two charges that were being billed in 3 installments, he couldn't stop them from being charged, so he credited the entire amount up front. Lets see what happens when bill number 2 comes out.


----------



## aaronwt

ira_l said:


> I was charged $39 in three equal installments for one additional outlet. What does this mean?


It means they tried to screw you like everyone else. They tried that crap with me after I was told upfront the prices and had a page the sales rep wrote the prices on for me. I got them to credit my account with all that crap they charged me for that they weren't supposed to.

I still have to get them to credit me $10 every month for getting their cellphone service. The only reason I switched to Verizon was because they told me I could get $10 off every month for as long as I had the other 3 services with the cell service. But of course they don't have that in their computer system to automatically deduct it. So they have to manually credit my account every two or three months which is really becoming a PITA.


----------



## David Platt

I've been a FiOS TV customer since December, and this month's bill was the first one that was the amount it should have been. I have never seen such a byzantine billing system; since I was previously a FiOS internet customer, the internet department was billing the tv department for my monthly service, and there were always random charges or credits on there that neither department could explain-- last month, for example, my bill for TV and internet was $342, and nobody could explain why.

After months of complaining and being promised credits that never showed up, I *finally* got them to combine the two separate accounts into one and give me one large credit that covered everything I felt I was owed. If the FiOS TV and internet wasn't far and away the best option from a product standpoint, I would have dropped them long ago simply because their customer service is so bad.


----------



## JediTim

Tomorrow is my big day for a conversion from my DirecTV TiVo's to Verizon FiOS with two TiVo HD Units with Lifetime subscription. I previously posted this under a new thread but thought I should make comments here as well.

I have terminated all my connections to the units with one remaining currently as a SD TV with S-Video inputs and the other into a new LG LVD TV with a HDMI input. I have enusred the software versions were updated from the 8.1 from the boxes I received to the current 9.3a.

I am really hoping that the install tomorrow goes relatively smooth...I already have the ONT installed from the Phone & Internet connection so this should be a little quicker. My two concerns are hoping that the installer has previously dealt with CableCARDs / Tivo and the potential problems with the 9.3a software. However, in reading the posts on the 9.3a I am unsure how widespread the problem is...it doesn't appear as though everyone is having the problem.

Tim


----------



## Jamisohn

I will be having Verizon install CableCARDS into my new Tivo HD on Friday. The CS rep said that she would have the cards mailed to me, or that I could pick them up. From what I have read on this forum, I knew that is NOT the case, so I asked her to check with someone else if a tech install was needed. (I thank everyone here for all the invaluable info!) As expected, she came back and said that it was, and that the customer is not permitted to do their own install. So, I am hoping that the install goes well!


----------



## JacksTiVo

My install is scheduled for Wednesday and I will post my experiences. I have underground utility service so they are due here today or tomorrow to install the fiber cable under my lawn. There are so many utility identification flags on my lawn to avoid digging up my gas, electric, cable, telephone and water lines that it looks like a used car lot.


----------



## richsadams

JacksTiVo said:


> My install is scheduled for Wednesday and I will post my experiences. I have underground utility service so they are due here today or tomorrow to install the fiber cable under my lawn. There are so many utility identification flags on my lawn to avoid digging up my gas, electric, cable, telephone and water lines that it looks like a used car lot.


I think we should be in the little orange flag and spray paint business...we could retire in a week based on what's in our neighborhood! 

Thanks to all for posting your experiences. We're still waiting for Verizon to finish up here. I'm more apprehensive about getting the billing right from the get-go than the technical side of things now. It'll be good to hear how the installs go for everyone. :up:

BTW, Comcast has gone on a major marketing campaign here boasting about how they have fiber optics, yadda, yadda. Yeah, maybe in their systems, but the stuff that's running around the streets here has been rotting away for decades in some cases. If they actually had FIOS I might consider staying on...just can't wait for that "big pipe" now.


----------



## hmm52

The same heard from Philadelphia Comcast. And the yield from a storm drain size pipe feeding a garden hose is what exactly???

At this point you know to setup an 1.5" hanging folder in file cabinet for VZ correspondence/notes/bills/offers. Done that yet?


----------



## richsadams

A special Verizon folder? Good idea! Of course that's the wife's domain.  We have Verizon cell phones, so she may be able to expand that one. The cell phone folks have been pretty good about billing, etc. Hopefully that will hold true with FIOS.


----------



## ah30k

richsadams said:


> We have Verizon cell phones, so she may be able to expand that one. The cell phone folks have been pretty good about billing, etc. Hopefully that will hold true with FIOS.


I think I got a one-time credit (maybe $25 or so) for switching to combined billing.


----------



## richsadams

ah30k said:


> I think I got a one-time credit (maybe $25 or so) for switching to combined billing.


Cool. :up: Always worth a try!


----------



## hmm52

Extra brownie points to your wife if she makes the billing error calls as well as filing chores. Cellular is by far the largest contributor to VZ's revenue stream. The goose that lays the golden eggs in that realm?... SMS messaging.Go figure.

Spoken as a stockholder - Come on kids, your buddies haven't heard from you in over 10 minutes. Being in class is no excuse. We're not Ma Bell anymore.


----------



## richsadams

Ha! If only. No, I'm the bad guy when it comes to making calls about errors on our billing, car repairs, home improvements, etc., etc. But I'll take that over filing and accounting any day!


----------



## JediTim

*Posted in another thread but wanted to keep it here as well*
Well the install is already completed...here is a summary.

The FiOS installer (Nick) arrived around 9:05AM for an afternoon appointment...I was still at work when my wife called me. He said that he had a repair job he could go to first...I was able to come home before he arrived.

He came back at 10:20 and stated he had *never done a CableCARD install * previously...this was his first but he spoke with some other people and could call someone if he needed help. I explained to him that I knew from reading the forums how to get through the install and he was pleased.

He first went to the ONT that had been previously installed for the internet / phone and connected it along with a new ground wire. He then went checked where the line came into my home...determined that the original installer had utilized a splitter in my basement with the with the -3Db line going into the router. The -7Db line then went into another splitter in a Leviton Structured Media Center where I had installed a 1x4 2 GHz Passive Video splitter. He wasn't sure if he would need to switch the lines for the video distribution but decided to check the lines first to see what the signal was at the end of the run. He checked each line and determined that the strength of the signal was within the range required for each of my lines.

His first install was for their set top box which installed in less than five minutes. he then went to my LG HD LCD TV...I gave him the instructions for the CableCARD installer...he didn't realize that he needed to install one card at a time...he installed the first card and followed the on screen instructions...the fault 161-4 appeared and I let him know that this is normal and should only occur once per car...within three minutes the CableCARD screen appeared and he needed to contact his office...the first card was activated within five minutes and the second card was completed after about thirty minutes. He was then off to the other TV in the family room...I re-ran the guided setup while he was on the second TV.

The second TV, currently a Sony tube TV, took about the same amount of time...he appeared to be a little more at ease and stayed on the line with the home office throughout the activation process. After he completed this I re-ran the guided setup on this HD unit as well.

*Observations *
I must say the process went a lot smoother than I expected since he had no experience. He has worked for Verizon since he graduated High School and is there for twenty years...he said that they were initially very busy at the beginning installing FiOS w9ith the free TV offer...he doesn't believe they expected the overwhelming response early on...this is why not everyone had received their TV. He also indicated that they were circulating around the "garage" the new HD channels and other channels that would be available by what he believed would be mid to late July...he also said that the entire network would be digital before the end of the year.

The whole process took about two hours for two TiVo HD units and a Verizon set top box. I am currently running version 9.3a and in this short time (1.5 hours) have not had any issues with the software: cool: This installation was a replacement for me from DirecTV; I didn't want Cablevision and live in Plainview, New York (Long Island).

As a side note...I have been using FiOS Internet for four months and have experienced on average 45Mbs upload / 4.5Mbs download for a 20/5 service...even though I am not getting a great upload speed I can live with considering the excellent download speeds I have experienced.

Tim


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## richsadams

Tim - thanks very much for the detailed write-up. It gives me a greater comfort level that they'll get it right when they tackle our system (which is much like yours). Enjoy! :up:


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## JacksTiVo

So far my experience with Verizon Fios has been impressive in that they are working very hard to avoid getting a reputation that the cable companies have developed, i.e. missed appointments and arriving late ("waiting for the cable guy").

Their contractor arrived promptly at 8Am this morning to install the fiber underground from the service box to the side of my house. They buried 100 feet of fiber cable in less than 1/2 hour. In the meantime, I have received reminder emails to expect them tomorrow and at 4PM today a real person called to state that the tech would arrive between 9 & 10 AM for the 8 to 12PM appointment window they gave me.

More to follow tomorrow after the installation.


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## aaronwt

Just wait until the lines start getting cut. I've had my FIOS line cut by the Comcast contractor 3 times. And the FIOS contractor has cut the Comcast line 3 times.
If FIOS would just bury the fiber going to the units in my area in conduit it would save them some money. I'm dreading when Comcast comes back to bury the next line. FIOS cut it back in November and a temporary line has been there for 6 months now.
I know for sure two cuts were done on purpose, and who knows maybe all of them. There is definitely something going on when Miss Utility marks where the cables are yet the contractor still digs there when they don't need to.

The next time it happens I'm going to try to make sure the contractor gets in some serious trouble for purposely ignoring the markings, because this is just ridiculous.


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## JacksTiVo

As promised here is a summary of how my install went yesterday.

Tech called to let me know he was on his way and arrived about 9AM. (He reminds me of the telephone company installers who used to provide in home service prior to the break-up of the former AT&T in the early 1980's, i.e professional, friendly, etc.)

We spotted a location for the ONT in my garage and he informed me that the cat. 5e wiring I had installed per the Verizon Web site was no longer needed since they have combined the router with the modem. That means you will have to discard your wireless router for theirs.
He had the hardware and fiber optic cable connected into the services boxes in about 2 hours and he told me that he had to drive about 1/2 mi. away to make a pole top connection to energize my fiber since I was the first on my block. Of course his bucket truck wouldn't start and he had to wait for a tow back to the garage to get another truck. That wasted almost 2 hours between waiting for the tow truck, him having lunch and returning. (BTW, the 2nd truck's bucket would not work so he climbed a ladder to make the pole connection. He violated some Verizon safety rules using a ladder, but he wanted to get the install done.)

I ordered all three services so the first thing he did was transfer my telephone over to Verizon. It was effortless.

The connection of the modem router was somewhat troublesome in that my old router was set with an IP address of 192.168.2.1 while Verizon's uses 192.168.1.1 and all of my Tivo's and PC's and network storage units had static IP addresses. I spent a good deal of time changing over to the new IP address format, but the FiOS router works very well in assigning IP addresses via DHCP. Both my S2 using ethernet and S3 using wireless had absolutely no difficulty in connecting to the Internet via FiOS. BTW, the wireless router default is WEP 64 bit, but I changed it today to 128 bit security. 

For TV he first installed the DCT700 on the S2. I went through guided setup and it worked flawless with the S2. You tune the DCT700 with the IR blaster which I had not used in several years.

Finally we tackle the CableCards on the S3. My first problem was that the eject button for card 2 did not work, so I used a needle nose pliers to eject it. The S3 did its thing in recognizing the new card and the tech used his laptop to enter the information to pair it. He must have entered a wrong number since after about 1/2 hour of waiting, I suggested he call-in to pair it. The person on the other end knew what she was doing because she had it up and running in 5 minutes. I told the tech to keep her on the phone to pair the 2nd card and that took another 5 minutes. The S3 is working like a charm.
Note, the Motorola CableCards did not need any firmware updates as compared to my experience with SA cards.

Because of the truck breakdown he left my house at about 6PM, a long, but successful day.

Now the unhappy experience, I called Cablevision to cancel my services. It was a very unpleasant experience since the CS representative kept asking why I was leaving, bad mouth FiOS, offering free basic TV service for one month and not listening to my only reason for leaving. That is, they are switching to SDV and are thus discriminating against CableCard and TiVo users.

I repeated to him the conversation I had with a representative of Cablevision who had called me after I complained about the SDV move. She stated that SDV is a business decision Cablevision has decided to implement and I had then told her that I would then make my own "business" decision to consider FiOS.

The bad part of FiOS TV, there are too many channels and I have to memorize all new channel numbers. The good part, beautiful sharp video, so I'll have to live with the bad.(LOL)

BTW, I have had no sign of an overpowering signal affecting the S3. 

I hope this is of use to some of you.


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## richsadams

JacksTiVo said:


> As promised here is a summary of how my install went yesterday. <snip> I hope this is of use to some of you.


Awesome write-up Jack! :up: I'm a little apprehensive about having to reconfigure all of my network settings...but hey, if that's what it takes. Thanks again for that, it was very helpful!


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## JediTim

Jack,
I had the same issue with Cablevision...FiOS isn't good, we can offer a better deal, stay with us etc. I aksed why they would offer a better deal prior to my move and all I received was a blank stare

I am glad that I made the move and have everything under one account...so far so good and none of the frozen picture issues.

Good luck,
Tim


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## ah30k

richsadams said:


> I'm a little apprehensive about having to reconfigure all of my network settings...but hey, if that's what it takes. Thanks again for that, it was very helpful!


If everything uses DHCP then you should not have any problems at all. Just set your wireless security key on the new Verizon router to the same as it was before and you're off an running. I did use static IPs for my TiVos since I sometimes use Orb over the internet to access my NPLs and static IPs let me know which one is which at all times.

I agree about too many channels. I wish TiVo would allow me to say I do not subscribe to the spanish tier and the premium tiers then automatically un-check all of those 100 channels.


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## richsadams

ah30k said:


> If everything uses DHCP then you should not have any problems at all. Just set your wireless security key on the new Verizon router to the same as it was before and you're off an running. I did use static IPs for my TiVos since I sometimes use Orb over the internet to access my NPLs and static IPs let me know which one is which at all times.


Good to hear. I do use DHCP w/WPA security and just hate entering those mile-long alphabet soup keys.  Guess I can use my router as a bridge eventually...I feel the need for speed!


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## wmcbrine

JacksTiVo said:


> The connection of the modem router was somewhat troublesome in that my old router was set with an IP address of 192.168.2.1 while Verizon's uses 192.168.1.1


The Fios router doesn't _have_ to use 192.168.1.x. That's just the default. You can change the address in the router.

Also, while they'll definitely want to install their router (to support video on demand), you _can_ get it set up to use Cat5 for the network connection, especially if you already have a line run, as it sounds like you did. You should insist on this. (Unfortunately, I think the newly-trained installers may not even be told about this option, so they may not be prepared to do it. I'm not certain that all models of ONT support it, either, although I think they do.) If you get a Cat5 network connection, then you can use the router of your choice, and piggyback the Actiontec just for the STBs.



ah30k said:


> I agree about too many channels. I wish TiVo would allow me to say I do not subscribe to the spanish tier and the premium tiers then automatically un-check all of those 100 channels.


Hey, be glad that you can uncheck them at all -- you can't on the Verizon-supplied boxes. (You can take them out of Favorites, but in the case of the La Connexion channels, not without simultaneously removing the Premiere package equivalents; and the Favorites list can't be set as the default guide anyway, which is really, really lame.)


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## rifleman69

ah30k said:


> I agree about too many channels. I wish TiVo would allow me to say I do not subscribe to the spanish tier and the premium tiers then automatically un-check all of those 100 channels.


You had the option in the guided setup to do this. If you haven't already unchecked those channels, run it again.


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## BruceShultes

ah30k said:


> If everything uses DHCP then you should not have any problems at all. Just set your wireless security key on the new Verizon router to the same as it was before and you're off an running. I did use static IPs for my TiVos since I sometimes use Orb over the internet to access my NPLs and static IPs let me know which one is which at all times.


I used another method so I did not need to change my Static IP addresses.

After the Verizon router was installed and we checked that the connection worked using a direct Ethernet cable connection to one of my PC's, I connected my original router running an ethernet cable from one of the output ports on the Verizon router to the input port on my router.

After doing this, everything that I originally had set up for a wireless connection worked fine without any changes to the settings.


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## JacksTiVo

Thanks for the useful information about using my old router. I have one of those OLPC XO laptops and it is having difficulty with the security settings on the Verizon router. I am also having problems with my S1 with the turbonet card accessing the Internet either via ethernet or a wireless bridge. Does anyone know how to delete static IP addresses for devices stored in the Verizon router database?

BTW, the wireless performance of the Verizon router is excellent. The signal strength from my old Belkin router to the S3 was generally in the 40-50% range. Now with the Verizon router it is in the high 70-80% range.


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## dalesd

I had my Fios install today. Two motorola S-cards in my THD.

Things seemed to go well. The installer checked a couple of channels, low numbers and high numbers, and things looked good.

Later, however, some channels were working, and others weren't. It took me quite a while to figure out that one of my cable cards was Not Authorized.

I followed the steps in bkdtv's instructions, and clearly Cable Card 1 is Not Authorized.



bkdtv said:


> For each CableCard, it should say *Connected: yes, EnabledByCP: yes* and *Auth: Subscribed* on an encrypted digital cable channel.
> 
> If it doesn't say all of that, then it means your card is not authorized and will not work. If the installer already left, and the cards were not activated, you should be able to activate them over the phone by calling Fiber Solutions @ 888-553-1555; when you call, say your CableCards were not activated properly.


So I know the rule is, do one card at a time, and do slot 1 before slot 2. Does this still apply if I need to reauthorize the card? I ask because I just got off the phone with Fiber Solutions and they couldn't get that card to "initialize".

They've promised me that they'll get it resolved in 72 hours. (quite a promise, considering it's Friday night on Memorial Day Weekend.)

So the THD has a card that doesn't work, but it doesn't seem to know that it doesn't work. It will try to record stuff on the bad tuner. Is there a workaround for that? I suppose I could pull the CableCard, but I think Verizon will need it installed to get it working. (right?)

Anyway, the rest of the install was pretty easy. I already had Fiber to the house, the ONT, and all that stuff; they were just adding TV (it was just approved by my town).

My ONT was already provisioned to use Ethernet to my Linksys router. (Not MoCA to the Verizon Actiontec router.) They left that alone and just ran the coax from the ONT direct to the TiVoHD.

I am glad they didn't put the Actiontec back in the loop. First, as a NAT router, its major flaw is that it can't handle lots of connections (i.e. BT). Second, I don't like having something with a backdoor in it on my network.

Here's a "before" picture: (I don't have an "after" yet.)
Flickr picture


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## Joe Q

aaronwt said:


> The Dlink router beats teh Actiontec hands down. The Actiontec might work well with a few devices, but I have 3 dozen devices connected on my Network and with the Actiontec things were't as fast as they should be. Using my Dlink, all my connections are very fast and have no bandwidth problems like with the Actiontec.


My setup is like yours in that I have I have a lot of stuff to connect together.

I have the 15 Mbit Verizon Internet speed and no complaints there.

I had to add a network switch to one of the 4 ports on the Actiontec so I could have a wired connection for these devices on the network:
5 PC's,XBOX 360/Hdhomerun/Vonage/AV Receiver/HTPC/DVD player and other stuff I am sure I have forgotten.

So when you say bandwidth problems with the Actiontec, are you referring to it's 100 mbit wired connections or it's internet connections?

*I ask because I need to be sure that I am getting the most out of my 100 mbit network. *
For instance, Sometimes, my Xbox as a Media Extender will say "Network Problem" when the picture gets all pixelated.

Also,I have the Homerun on one PC writing it's data to the media Center PC's RAID. The Media Center 'sometimes' has trouble recording 4 things all at once(2 Cable card tuners/Homerun)
Notice the 'sometimes' - your post makes me wonder if the Actiontec is a bottleneck


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## dalesd

Regarding the Backdoor on the Actiontec router, Port 4567 is wide open. 
More info here: http://www.compu-help.us/205.htm 
and a possible fix here: http://www.fiosfaq.com/content.php?contentid=79

BTW, my installation (Verizon Premiere (TV), 20/5 internet, phone) doesn't use the Actiontec router at all. The installer ran a new RG6 cable from the ONT directly to the TiVo. No splitter, no router.


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## Joe Q

dalesd said:


> BTW, my installation (Verizon Premiere (TV), 20/5 internet, phone) doesn't use the Actiontec router at all. The installer ran a new RG6 cable from the ONT directly to the TiVo. No splitter, no router.


Interesting.

Where does the split occur to go to a router?

I ask that because you said that you had Internet service as well as phone,which I asume is an IP based phone like Vonage or AT&T.

Therefore, You need something,like a router, that acts as a DHCP server to dole out the IP addresses as well as having several ports on it.
That would allow you to connect a PC(s) to the 'router' and the Vonage/AT&T phone adaptor

Unless I am missing something here?

Does the TIVO have a built in router that allows all this to happen?

Sorry for all the questions but I am battling problems due to low signal strength thanks to all the splitters needed to connect all this gear and it seems as though you may have an approach I should look into

Thanks


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## willettg

The coax carries the broadcast video directly to the Tivo. The Tivo still needs an ethernet connection to get TV guide info and software updates.


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## dalesd

The ONT has an Ethernet jack on it. That's where I connect the WAN port of my Linksys. The yellow wire on the picture above.

Likewise, the ONT has a separate set of terminals for the phone. Look just to the right of the lights on the ONT.


__
https://flic.kr/p/1346376109


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## acvthree

You only need the ActionTec if you are doing VOD or PPV. Since the Tivo doesn't do that, it is not needed.

Did they put an attenuator on the cable feed? I would have guessed that it would be too hot for the Tivo without a splitter in there somewhere.

Al


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## dalesd

acvthree said:


> You only need the ActionTec if you are doing VOD or PPV. Since the Tivo doesn't do that, it is not needed.


That's what I told the installer. Well, that's what he told me when I explained how I wanted things hooked up. "But you need that to get guide data and VOD." I explained that was fine with me, because TiVo has its own guide data and doesn't do VOD. He was kinda new, but when the "TiVo expert" installer showed up, he went along with it.


acvthree said:


> Did they put an attenuator on the cable feed? I would have guessed that it would be too hot for the Tivo without a splitter in there somewhere.
> 
> Al


There isn't one on the ONT. I haven't checked the back of the TiVo. Lemme go look now...
Yes, 8db.


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## acvthree

Sounds like a good install and setup. Enjoy!

Al


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## webin

acvthree said:


> You only need the ActionTec if you are doing VOD or PPV. Since the Tivo doesn't do that, it is not needed.


You know, that's a good point. I started with a Fios STB, so I needed the ActionTec, but always had the desire to put my linksys router back into the network, probably as a sub router running to my computers. I never got around to it because the ActionTec doesn't seem like too bad a piece of hardware (albiet, one Verizon can access remotely). Now that I'm using TivoHD, I may just take it out and use just my trusty old linksys.


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## dalesd

webin said:


> You know, that's a good point. I started with a Fios STB, so I needed the ActionTec, but always had the desire to put my linksys router back into the network, probably as a sub router running to my computers. I never got around to it because the ActionTec doesn't seem like too bad a piece of hardware (albiet, one Verizon can access remotely). Now that I'm using TivoHD, I may just take it out and use just my trusty old linksys.


I ran in to difficulty with this at first. When you swap your router for the Actiontec you'll need to do one of the following: 
(A) call Verizon Fiber Solutions and ask them to break the lease of your IP address, 
(B) clone the WAN MAC address of the Actiontec to your Linksys, 
(C) release the WAN IP address from the Actiontec (through the web interface, then immediately disconnect it from the ONT)
(D) wait about an hour (with no router plugged in to the ONT).

Long story short, I can confirm that A, B, and C work. Guy on the phone at Fiber Solutions said that D works, but I haven't tested it.


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## acvthree

webin said:


> You know, that's a good point. I started with a Fios STB, so I needed the ActionTec, but always had the desire to put my linksys router back into the network, probably as a sub router running to my computers. I never got around to it because the ActionTec doesn't seem like too bad a piece of hardware (albiet, one Verizon can access remotely). Now that I'm using TivoHD, I may just take it out and use just my trusty old linksys.


The Verizon STB still works. You just can't do VOD or PPV.

Several months ago my ActionTec router died on a Friday afternoon.

I unplugged the ActionTec. Installed a NetGear router I was not using. Called Verizon and had them break the link. Everything works great.

Eventually I'll get the ActionTec repaired/replaced, but I think I'll leave the my own router as the primary. At least I can replace it quickly if it breaks.

Al


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## Scyber

dalesd said:


> I ran in to difficulty with this at first. When you swap your router for the Actiontec you'll need to do one of the following:
> (A) call Verizon Fiber Solutions and ask them to break the lease of your IP address,
> (B) clone the WAN MAC address of the Actiontec to your Linksys,
> (C) release the WAN IP address from the Actiontec (through the web interface, then immediately disconnect it from the ONT)
> (D) wait about an hour (with no router plugged in to the ONT).
> 
> Long story short, I can confirm that A, B, and C work. Guy on the phone at Fiber Solutions said that D works, but I haven't tested it.


You should only need to do C. That is how I did it before (no call, no mac clone). A call shouldn't be necessary unless you can't get to the web interface on the actiontec. Of course it probably doesn't hurt to get someone from Verizon on the phone just in case it doesn't work right.


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## richsadams

dalesd said:


> The ONT has an Ethernet jack on it. That's where I connect the WAN port of my Linksys. The yellow wire on the picture above.
> 
> Likewise, the ONT has a separate set of terminals for the phone. Look just to the right of the lights on the ONT.
> 
> 
> __
> https://flic.kr/p/1346376109


Nice job highlighting each item on your picture. :up: Nice setup as well.


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## Joe Q

My equipment does not look anything like yours.

I have enclosed a picture of the ONT which is mounted outside

The Battery backup that the coax from the ONT goes to is the next picture along with a small powerd device next to it that I am not totally sure what it does.
I am guessing that it is the trickle charger for the battery

Those 2 devices are in the basement and the coax cable is split there,in the basement.
One coax run goes to my Actiontec router and the other coax goes to my DVR. All of which are upstairs.

The third picture is the amplifier that I put on a 3 foot long coax cable that comes out of the battery backup.
It is BEFORE the 2 way splitter and I needed that because I have too many splitters upstairs for all the stuff hooked to the cable

Please ignore the romex cable. To try and eliminate the pixelation/"No TV signal message" propblems I have been fighting, I did so much experimenting with various spliiters and brands of amplifiers that it is merely 'stuffed' into the area where it would fit.

*There are NO ethernet ports/jacks on anything except the Actiontec router which is where I plug in my PC's and my ethernet switch (for expansion)*







Any ideas?

Thanks


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## Scyber

Joe Q said:


> *There are NO ethernet ports/jacks on anything except the Actiontec router which is where I plug in my PC's and my ethernet switch (for expansion)*


Actually, if you open up the ONT, you should see an ethernet port there. With newer installs, Verizon is using COAX for both the TV and the ethernet connection to the Actiontec router. This works fine, but it prevents you from using a 3rd party router. They will (on request) run ethernet to the actiontec, but it will cost you a truck roll post install. Most likely you can't run the ethernet yourself b/c the port is disabled in the ONT.


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## Joe Q

Scyber said:


> Actually, if you open up the ONT, you should see an ethernet port there. With newer installs, Verizon is using COAX for both the TV and the ethernet connection to the Actiontec router. This works fine, but it prevents you from using a 3rd party router. They will (on request) run ethernet to the actiontec, but it will cost you a truck roll post install. Most likely you can't run the ethernet yourself b/c the port is disabled in the ONT.


Great info!!

It can not hurt to open the thing up and try it out.

Even though it is outside, I should be able to see if it works by connecting up one of my spare routers and then hook my laptop to it.
I will post back my results later this evening

Thanks


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## acvthree

Scyber said:


> Actually, if you open up the ONT, you should see an ethernet port there. With newer installs, Verizon is using COAX for both the TV and the ethernet connection to the Actiontec router. This works fine, but it prevents you from using a 3rd party router. They will (on request) run ethernet to the actiontec, but it will cost you a truck roll post install. Most likely you can't run the ethernet yourself b/c the port is disabled in the ONT.


A number of people have run the Ethernet themselves and then just called Verizon to have them enable the Ethernet remotely. Mainly, Verizon just doesn't want to spend the extra time running the Ethernet. Most people don't care (or know) one way or the other.

Al


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## acvthree

Joe Q said:


> Great info!!
> 
> It can not hurt to open the thing up and try it out.
> 
> Even though it is outside, I should be able to see if it works by connecting up one of my spare routers and then hook my laptop to it.
> I will post back my results later this evening
> 
> Thanks


You will have to make a call to Verizon to have them enable the Ethernet on the ONT. It is a simple procedure and is done remotely. Just tell them you want to use your own router and please enable the Ethernet (you may have to make a second call to have them release the address). I haven't heard of anyone getting push back.

Al


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## rocko

The ethernet is there on the coax. You can (I have) hook up a NIM-100 which will provide your network connection. I used one to replace my wireless NIC on my S3. Run the output to a cheapo switch and have room for the Wii and XBox (plus 4 more devices). MRV runs like a raped ape.

Only thing is I think the Actiontec is still serving up the IP addresses. I haven't tried the NIM-100 without the Actiontec yet.


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## rcji

I've been reading some of the previous post and just wanted a few things clear. I just got my tivo hd and I currently have verizon fios. 1) Do they have to come to your house and install it for you or can you pick up your own card and do it yourself? When I called up twice 1 person said someone has to come to your house and the other person said you can do it yourself.
2) Are all the verizon fios cards now multi stream that let you use one card for the dual tuner to work?
thanks!


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## webin

1) No, an installer MUST come to your house to install cable cards. Many CS Reps get confused by something in their system and will tell you that you can do it yourself, but no one has ever actually been allowed to do that.
2) Verizon still uses S-Cards, and probably will for a while. The M-Cards have to get "certified" on the Verizon system, and they aren't really moving fast on that. You will need 2 S-Cards in your TivoHD to get dual tuner functionality.


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## JediTim

I had FiOS installed several weeks ago and the installer needed to come to the house and install two S cards...he contacted the office and activated the cards during the install.

I have two Tivo HD units and four S cards. I am charged $3.99 per card per month.
Tim


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## dalesd

webin said:


> 1) No, an installer MUST come to your house to install cable cards. Many CS Reps get confused by something in their system and will tell you that you can do it yourself, but no one has ever actually been allowed to do that.


That "must" is purely from Verizon's point of view.
Anyone savvy enough to buy and hook up a TiVo HD is savvy enough to read a few numbers off the screen into the telephone to the Verizon home office.
Other than the act of delivering the card(s), there's no particular reason for tech must come to your house.


----------



## webin

dalesd said:


> That "must" is purely from Verizon's point of view.
> Anyone savvy enough to buy and hook up a TiVo HD is savvy enough to read a few numbers off the screen into the telephone to the Verizon home office.
> Other than the act of delivering the card(s), there's no particular reason for tech must come to your house.


I agree completely. I am more than competent to install the cards... though the installer had a sweet web app they use to do the activation (come to think of it, how was he connected to the Internet? My wireless router is locked down pretty good). The installer was useful in swapping my ONT with a newer model and verifying the system was functioning correctly.

I think the "must" boils down to company policy. If an installer is on site to do the work and verify functionality, they are more guaranteed to have a properly configured system that is less likely to cause service calls and tech support later.


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## pilotbob

webin said:


> (come to think of it, how was he connected to the Internet? My wireless router is locked down pretty good).


I'm sure they have Verizon EVDO/HDSPA cell phone broadband cards in their laptops.

BOb


----------



## rcji

Thanks! I thought too it was a little ridiculous that they "have" to come and do it just to pop in a card and activate it. I would of done it myself but be my guest if thats what I have to do. I think I'll just stick with one card for now if it's still the single stream. I can live without the dual tuner. Thanks again for the help!


----------



## ilh

Verizon could easily supply customers with a web site to type in the numbers. When I recently received a DCT700 from them, it came unactivated, and it was a self-activation over the web. Within a few minutes of activating online, it came alive. I can't see why they couldn't do exactly the same thing with CableCARDs.


----------



## rocko

pilotbob said:


> I'm sure they have Verizon EVDO/HDSPA cell phone broadband cards in their laptops.
> 
> BOb


Correct - Panasonic Toughbooks with cellular connection, actually. BTW, the Verizon tech that installed the cards in my THD got a "successful" activation using his laptop but, in reality, was unsuccessful. After scratching our heads wondering why no premium channels were working he ended up calling the FSC to have them authorize the cards


----------



## webin

My installer had a similar experience. More or less successful activating both cards on his laptop, but in testing, determined that he needed to call someone to re-initialize one of the cards.


----------



## jcostom

FiOS guys just arrived. 2 of them, one in training. The other guy's never done a TiVo. BUT, they're thrilled that I've been reading and know a thing or two about what they need to do to get it done.

Fingers crossed.

Fortunately, they're not monkeying with the existing FiOS Internet already in the house. They only need to plug the crappy Actiontec router into the coax loop for the TVs, or so they say, and can leave the Cat 5 connection to my (much better) router alone & working.


----------



## jcostom

jcostom said:


> FiOS guys just arrived. 2 of them, one in training.
> Fortunately, they're not monkeying with the existing FiOS Internet already in the house. They only need to plug the crappy Actiontec router into the coax loop for the TVs, or so they say, and can leave the Cat 5 connection to my (much better) router alone & working.


Well, they're still here. Internet stayed up the whole time. Because my ONT is an older non-MoCa compatible one, they did need to install the Actiontec connected to both the coax as well as to Ethernet, though they were ok with plugging the WAN side of their router into a port on mine, so as not to disrupt anything I had already setup.

CC's are both activated, but currently reporting NOT_SUBSCRIBED. They're outside taking 15 for lunch. We get 2-49 and the HD Locals, but nothing else on either tuner on the THD. Afterward, we call the fiber solutions center.

The Standard Def STB they installed downstairs in the kids playroom is working fine on all appropriate channels at least, so they're happy.

These guys were sure glad I was here to help them walk through this stuff, and I in return are grateful for the wisdom of the gang here. Hopefully all will be righted shortly..


----------



## webin

I wouldn't fret too much about the NOT_Subscribed yet... I'm sure they'll be able to call headquarters, get them to reinit it or something, and you'll be up and running soon. It's interesting that they are leaving both Coax and Cat-5 connected to the router.... you could remove the cat-5 and just get your internet through the coax (as I currently do).


----------



## acvthree

And be locked into the Verizon actiontec as your router? There are downsides to MoCA only.

Al


----------



## jcostom

acvthree said:


> And be locked into the Verizon actiontec as your router? There are downsides to MoCA only.
> 
> Al


Right on!

My regular router is a Juniper SSG 5 (one of the perks of working there), and does all kinds of amazing stuff the Actiontec couldn't even dream of doing...

Anyhow, long story short, the guys just left. It's all working 100% now.

They called in, got the cards re-initialized and blammo, working like a champ.


----------



## acvthree

Nice feature set!

Is there a gigabit version of that router?


----------



## jcostom

acvthree said:


> Nice feature set!
> 
> Is there a gigabit version of that router?


Not today, but gigabit router/firewalls on the scale of an ssg 5 are mostly a solution looking for a problem.. Really, how many of us have > 100 Mbps for our Internet connection?

Besides, it's a product that's really targeted at the enterprise market.. But, I digress..

Holy crap, FiOS tv on the THD is unbelievable. Even the VZ installer guys thought it was better than their dvr..


----------



## webin

jcostom said:


> Holy crap, FiOS tv on the THD is unbelievable.


Welcome to the club


----------



## rocko

webin said:


> Welcome to the club


+1 :up:


----------



## richsadams

jcostom said:


> Really, how many of us have > 100 Mbps for our Internet connection?


Well, after reading this Verizon press release it would seem it may be closer than we think.



> "The appetite for bandwidth shows no signs of slowing down. Neither will we. We've already had successful trials of the 100-megabit home, which will be a reality faster than anybody thinks."


Woo hoo!

Enjoy your new HD PQ! :up: Can't wait to see VZ FIOS on our Series3 and THD too.


----------



## guitarded

Fios will work but youll need cable cards or a box, the tivo guide still will work, remember it connect through the phone line or internet to get that info, it doesnt get it from the cable company, plenty of tivo lovers have fios


----------



## dalesd

guitarded said:


> Fios will work but youll need cable cards or a box, the tivo guide still will work, remember it connect through the phone line or internet to get that info, it doesnt get it from the cable company, plenty of tivo lovers have fios


Is this a 942-post deep smeek? Is that a record?


----------



## richsadams

dalesd said:


> Is this a 942-post deep smeek? Is that a record?


Ha! Good one! :up:


----------



## Gerhard

Hey, anyone in the DC / VA / MD area notice any changes or issues with their S3 / Verizon service on Friday?

Gerhard


----------



## wmcbrine

Gerhard said:


> Hey, anyone in the DC / VA / MD area notice any changes or issues with their S3 / Verizon service on Friday?


Friday? Nope.

Yesterday? TiVo bungled a few channels in their Fios lineup, changing the guide data for 10, 11, 16, 811, and 866 to some Richmond affiliates. But they fixed it within a few hours.

Today? Recordings of D.C. United game mysteriously did not happen.

Other than that, nothing. What exactly were you looking for?


----------



## Gerhard

wmcbrine said:


> Friday? Nope.
> 
> Yesterday? TiVo bungled a few channels in their Fios lineup, changing the guide data for 10, 11, 16, 811, and 866 to some Richmond affiliates. But they fixed it within a few hours.
> 
> Today? Recordings of D.C. United game mysteriously did not happen.
> 
> Other than that, nothing. What exactly were you looking for?


That was basically it... I wasn't sure if they removed FOX or put it somewhere else. I was primarily annoyed that FOX-HD seemed to go away... and I was thinking that maybe FIOS did something to the channel lineup without any forewarning.


----------



## NSPhillips

For a while my Series 2 thought there was a Fox channel on 10 and a MyNetwork TV on 11. But then it got fixed. Didn't have the same issue with the Series 3.


----------



## Hilltop Sailor

I know this is a repeat question, but I cannot find it with the search engine. Can someone post (again) the answer to the problem of TiVo not working correctly on only some FiOS channels? My TiVo works great on everything but the Comedy and Fox News channels. On those two channels, the signal often breaks-up. The non-TiVo, FiOS-supplied HD STB's elsewhere in my house get these two channels fine. Neither FiOS's nor TiVo's phone CSR's will discuss the problem with me because there is no mutual support agreement in place between the two of them.


----------



## wrp

Hilltop Sailor said:


> I know this is a repeat question, but I cannot find it with the search engine. Can someone post (again) the answer to the problem of TiVo not working correctly on only some FiOS channels? My TiVo works great on everything but the Comedy and Fox News channels. On those two channels, the signal often breaks-up. The non-TiVo, FiOS-supplied HD STB's elsewhere in my house get these two channels fine. Neither FiOS's nor TiVo's phone CSR's will discuss the problem with me because there is no mutual support agreement in place between the two of them.


There are probably thousands of posts here about this problem. Basically, the Tivo HD tuner is very sensitive to a signal that is too strong, and you need to put attenuators in the coax cable going into the Tivo box. It's also difficult to get this right, since if you put too much attenuation your signal will be too weak and you'll also get pixelation.

And signal level reported by Tivo also changes by the hour - there's either a problem with the Tivo not reporting this signal level correctly, or the Fios Ont boxes are actually putting out different signal levels for different channels at different times of the day.

This is a mess, and Tivo still has no solution for it.


----------



## Hilltop Sailor

wrp said:


> There are probably thousands of posts here about this problem. Basically, the Tivo HD tuner is very sensitive to a signal that is too strong, and you need to put attenuators in the coax cable going into the Tivo box. It's also difficult to get this right, since if you put too much attenuation your signal will be too weak and you'll also get pixelation.
> 
> And signal level reported by Tivo also changes by the hour - there's either a problem with the Tivo not reporting this signal level correctly, or the Fios Ont boxes are actually putting out different signal levels for different channels at different times of the day.
> 
> This is a mess, and Tivo still has no solution for it.


Thanks for the answer and not flaming me. You are a saint.


----------



## riffjim4069

marioc21 said:


> I just signed up for FIOS TV on Monday. I didn't see the option for cablecards either. I started a chat session with one of the online agents and they told me to put my order in and then call Verizon customer service once I had my order number. I did that and the next day I called and made the change to my order. I put two cable cards into the order since the Verizon rep told me they don't offer the multistream cards.


I was installed on April 2nd and passed on TiVo because of the multistream cablecard issue...cablecard fees alone to support 3 TiVo HD boxes (6 x $3.99) would be more than $28 per month after franchise fees and a slew of taxes. I love FiOS TV and Internet, but their CableCard pricing is excessive and, in my opinion, limits consumer choice. Before I moved, Comcast offered the M-Card at $2 per month: Comcast $6 per month plus fees/taxes vice Verizon $24 per month plus fees/taxes to support 3 TiVo HD boxes.

I called Verizon this morning and they STILL only offer the S-Card. I am sorry, but Comcast has been offering the M-Card in my former area since Oct/Nov 2007. There is no reason, other than to limit consumer choice, for Verizon to still be pushing the S-Card at $3.99 per. Anyway, I filed a complaint with the FCC and suggest others do the same. Cut and paste if you wish, it's up to you.

http://esupport.fcc.gov/complaints.htm

Limit 1000 characters:

_I am not sure how to categorize my complain with Verizon (V*), but their CableCard (CC) policy regarding FiOS TV indicates they are not fairly supporting a consumers reasonable access to use 3rd party set-top-boxes (i.e. TiVo, etc.)

V* does not support multistream (M-Card) CC with FiOS TV, while competitors, such as Comcast, have been doing so since Aug 2007. I haven't purchased TiVO because V* does not offer the M-Card (dual-tuner)...only the singlesteam (old S-Card). Verizon's rental fee for the CC was $1.99 last year, but it was raised to $3.99 as of 1 Feb. In order to use a dual-tuner TiVo HD DVR, I would need to rent two S-Card type CCs at $7.98 per unit. Yikes! That's over $28 just in CC fees alone if you include fees and taxes for 3 TiVos. I would much rather rent a single M-Card at $3.99 insteads since it will do the same thing as two S-Cards.

I believe V*'s CC practice limits consumer choice and violates the spirit of FCC initiatives directing more consumer choice_


----------



## bcaslis

Are you sure Verizon doesn't support M cards? I called yesterday to schedule an installation on Saturday for a Tivo HD with FIOS. After much discussion I was told that their cable cards are M cards, so I only ordered one. If that's not true then it's a real problem for me.


----------



## ah30k

bcaslis said:


> Are you sure Verizon doesn't support M cards? I called yesterday to schedule an installation on Saturday for a Tivo HD with FIOS. After much discussion I was told that their cable cards are M cards, so I only ordered one. If that's not true then it's a real problem for me.


Many employees see the Motorola M logo and assume M-Card. I don't think they support M-Cards yet.


----------



## webin

bcaslis said:


> Are you sure Verizon doesn't support M cards? I called yesterday to schedule an installation on Saturday for a Tivo HD with FIOS. After much discussion I was told that their cable cards are M cards, so I only ordered one. If that's not true then it's a real problem for me.


To date, there are no Verizon customers with M-Cards. I wouldn't bank on you randomly being the first.


----------



## bcaslis

webin said:


> To date, there are no Verizon customers with M-Cards. I wouldn't bank on you randomly being the first.


You're probably right. Called them again and can't get a definite answer one way or another. Tech support sounded like they think they are s-cards but they weren't sure. Of course now they can't change the order for one card. $3.99 for a single s-card? Really makes me wonder if it's worth getting a Tivo HD for FIOS.


----------



## jb1677

After reading over the past year or so all the horror stories of people having cablecard installs attempted I waited, and waited..... and waited. Finally I decided to give it a try, and sure enough it turned into a disaster.

Somehow after a complete day, 3 technicians, 4 CableCards and a false promise that the tech would come back after grabbing a bite to eat I find myself left with just locals - in HD and non HD - but nothing else. No other channels at all. Both cards still display Auth: NOT_SUBSCRIBED and HOST Validation: Unknown 00. 

I thought after all this time things would be better. A call to FSC gave me nothing but a promise of a callback within 24 hours. If its anything like the last tech's promise to come back after getting some food then I imagine I will never hear from the FSC. The person also suggested that I be at home for the call, I am sure my work will understand (NOT)

O well, just venting.... but wow, the support and tech staff sure is bottom of the barrel these days. When I have FIOS internet installed way back when the tech was great, a true pro, now no so much.


----------



## aaronwt

Like other service providers it's a crap shoot on what type of technician you get. Some are knowledgeable and some aren't. But from my experience, the Verizon techs generally seem better trained than the Comcast and DirecTV techs.


----------



## hmm52

jb1677 said:


> After reading over the past year or so all the horror stories of people having cablecard installs attempted I waited, and waited..... and waited. Finally I decided to give it a try, and sure enough it turned into a disaster.
> 
> Somehow after a complete day, 3 technicians, 4 CableCards and a false promise that the tech would come back after grabbing a bite to eat I find myself left with just locals - in HD and non HD - but nothing else. No other channels at all. Both cards still display Auth: NOT_SUBSCRIBED and HOST Validation: Unknown 00.
> 
> I thought after all this time things would be better. A call to FSC gave me nothing but a promise of a callback within 24 hours. If its anything like the last tech's promise to come back after getting some food then I imagine I will never hear from the FSC. The person also suggested that I be at home for the call, I am sure my work will understand (NOT)
> 
> O well, just venting.... but wow, the support and tech staff sure is bottom of the barrel these days. When I have FIOS internet installed way back when the tech was great, a true pro, now no so much.


You've heard of the power of positive thinking? I've never had an experience with Verizon like yours. The closest would be the initial Internet only install, in '05 I think, when the tech was cursing his employer 5 ways to Sunday for not providing additional personnel to direct traffic while he was up on a pole - on a very quiet road. The problem in PA is shortage of techs, not training. With cablecard installs, a good tech can compensate for a deficit on the other end of the line. Tell VZ that the only reliable way to reach you is your cell phone #. That's worked for me. What area of the country are you in?

Host Validation:Unknown 00 is normal with VZ. Auth: Not Subscribed is not.

Once a card is authorized and intialized (properly), it will take 3 minutes or less for all channels including premiums to come up. 2 cards X 3 techs X all day with no success = 0 productivity.


----------



## hmm52

Yesterday I had a Verizon cablecard fall asleep or die again, the 2nd since 11/06. Normally I say "Agent" when the automated self test prompt begins but let it run this time. Despite the chatter about "your STBs", it woke up the card and all channels returned in a minute. A power cycle of Toshiba TV might have served the same purpose but I didn't think of it. First card actually was dead. Also after use in the Toshiba. - A cablecard killer? 5 cards in 4 CC devices. Random chance of only 2 failures in same single CC device is 4 percent. Prior to call, just the local HDs and analogs were being tuned. Analogs still around one + week after "shutoff" with periodic red warning screens, mostly in prime time. Good PR?


----------



## jb1677

hmm52 said:


> You've heard of the power of positive thinking? I've never had an experience with Verizon like yours. The closest would be the initial Internet only install, in '05 I think, when the tech was cursing his employer 5 ways to Sunday for not providing additional personnel to direct traffic while he was up on a pole - on a very quiet road. The problem in PA is shortage of techs, not training. With cablecard installs, a good tech can compensate for a deficit on the other end of the line. Tell VZ that the only reliable way to reach you is your cell phone #. That's worked for me. What area of the country are you in?
> 
> Host Validation:Unknown 00 is normal with VZ. Auth: Not Subscribed is not.
> 
> Once a card is authorized and intialized (properly), it will take 3 minutes or less for all channels including premiums to come up. 2 cards X 3 techs X all day with no success = 0 productivity.


I have 2 hours left on my promised callback time from the FSC. I still haven't heard from the installer that left for lunch, I suppose he still may come back 

I am located in MD, outside of Baltimore. My previous experience with the FIOS tech's was excellent, my Internet installer was great and did a professional job down to minor details like zip tieing the routers ac adapter power cord and affixing it neatly to a panel where everything was mounted.


----------



## hmm52

That would be a pretty leisurely lunch in Philadelphia. Maybe not for Baltimore. I'd call Verizon back, open a trouble ticket and note it. Give your cell # as only contact #. If you don't get call confirming appointment by evening before, don't bother clearing time in the following day. Get tech's name and cell phone # when he shows. You're probably getting rid of all your cablecard problems in one shot, the initial one.


----------



## jb1677

Called back to the FSC, gave a quick synopsis of my issue, the tech sounded confused and said something to the effect of "I think we just need to reset the cards". 30 seconds later I had my channels.

I guess the long and short of it is:
1) Just let the installers put the cards in and kick them out!!!
2) Keep calling the FSC until you get someone who can help 

O well, thanks for leting me vent in this thread, hopefully it will give some other lost soul hope one day.


----------



## aaronwt

Shouldn't be any need to kick them out. They should have a laptop with them, and they can enter the info right there. If done properly it only takes a few minutes. And never let the tech use the TiVo remote. Use it yourself to navigate the menus. That will also speed things up.


----------



## webin

My tech made good use of the Tivo remote... he had done a CC install once before, but actually knew what he was doing (but still had to call FSC once to get a re-init like you did).

If I had had my way, I woulda had the tech hand me the cards, and told him to go home and let me handle the install.


----------



## acvthree

I agree, my tech went through the menus faster than I could follow. I thought I was a "tivo wizard" and I was humbled.

It really depends on the tech.


----------



## richsadams

webin said:


> If I had had my way, I woulda had the tech hand me the cards, and told him to go home and let me handle the install.


+1 :up:


----------



## hmm52

jb1677 said:


> I guess the long and short of it is:
> 1) Just let the installers put the cards in and kick them out!!!
> 2) Keep calling the FSC until you get someone who can help


I agree with your second point but not with the first.

There are 3 things that need to be done correctly for cablecards to work - for all channels in your package:

1) Cards need to be checked out of inventory and entered into system for install before they leave on truck in the morning. 
2) Authorization of cards is first step done by tech upon arrival at house. On other end is billing and channel package info for your service. 
3) Initialization of cards in your device

My install in '06 stumbled on the first step. It required major arm twisting by "Big Boss" over the phone to allow sequential progress for 4 cards. Full function occurred 12.5 hours after arrival of first tech. (related billing errors followed for 1 year) While reinitialization can be requested anytime by phone, it won't do much good unless first 2 steps were done properly by VZ personnel. It's the cableco's responsibility to get everything working. The techs shouldn't leave (_quick_ lunch excepted) until you see all the channels you're paying for, and they've given you some VZ attenuators.


----------



## bcaslis

I got two cable cards installed in a Tivo HD yesterday by Verizon (second appointment for this, on the first one nobody ever showed up). I wasn't home, but it seemed to go fairly smoothly. It seems to be operating fine except for severe pixelization on some channels at times. When I first tried it at about 7pm there was severe breakup on channel 855, but two hours later when I went back to do more testing, I wasn't seeing any problems. As far as I can tell the tech didn't put in a low-pass filter or any attenuators. Has anyone seen any difference with the low-pass filter than Tivo seems to recommend from their support note?


----------



## hmm52

When testing in and out, the low pass filter, originally installed 11/07, has made no difference with pixelation in my setup. If I had a lot of MOCA activity, perhaps it would. But I don't. Attenuators make a huge and immediate difference. Anybody with a THD or S3 should get an assortment of them from VZ tech during initial install. Funny that you're having problems with 855. It was one of 2 premium HDs that regularly troubled my S3; the other was Comcast Sports Net. That figures. During rough patches, signal will vary hour to hour. Not unusual. Call the install tech for attenuators if he left his card.


----------



## nemein

I just got an HD Tivo last weekend. So far getting the Cox Communications (Northern Va) cable cards to work w/ it has been a pain. One installer tried two cards on Monday, another was out last night and tried a third card but w/ all of them so far all I get is the basic channels and basic HD, nothing in the so called "digitial tier" (SD or HD). I posted this in the Cox cable card thread, but I also thought I would ask here since so far it looks like there are fewer problems w/ the FIOS cable cards than w/ those from Cox. Is that the case? Has anyone else in the NOVA area switched from Cox to FIOS? What was your experience? Have people had fewer problems w/ FIOS in general?

I'm just trying to decide whether to keep the Tivo in general (which so far I think is a definite improvement over the Cox DVR), or switch to FIOS or ???

TIA


----------



## RossoNeri

bcaslis said:


> You're probably right. Called them again and can't get a definite answer one way or another. Tech support sounded like they think they are s-cards but they weren't sure. Of course now they can't change the order for one card. $3.99 for a single s-card? Really makes me wonder if it's worth getting a Tivo HD for FIOS.


If you've used their DVR, you'd feel it was worth it. I used home grown system for 8 months and just finally had it. Getting a TiVo is definitely worth it for me, even if it;s more expansive than the crap they give. Reinforces teh adage that you get what you pay for.


----------



## riffjim4069

RossoNeri said:


> If you've used their DVR, you'd feel it was worth it. I used home grown system for 8 months and just finally had it. Getting a TiVo is definitely worth it for me, even if it;s more expansive than the crap they give. Reinforces teh adage that you get what you pay for.


I tend to agree...to a point. We have given the FiOS Motorola HD DVR 3-months and, while it's not horrible, it is certainly not living up to our expectations. However, paying Verizon $8 in CableCARD fees per each unit, plus fees and taxes, leaves a bad-taste-in-my-mouth considering Comcast was only charging $2 per multistream CableCARD.

Anyway, I contacted Verizon Executive Customer Advocacy at 800-483-7988, option 3, and filed a complaint. I later received a call from a customer relations representative from the Dallas tech support center who said: the multistream cards are currently being tested; the cards will be deployed as soon as testing is completed; customers may or may not receive notification when the new CableCARDS are available; the M-Card will be available before the end of the year, but she suspects they will be available starting in August; no idea if they would be leased at the same rate as the S-Card.

I also asked about CableCARD self-installation. The rep said that some areas in Maryland, Virginia, and New Jersey were doing this (I am not sure how accurate this statement is), and they are evaluating allowing customer to install their own CableCARDS in North Texas.


----------



## bcaslis

RossoNeri said:


> If you've used their DVR, you'd feel it was worth it. I used home grown system for 8 months and just finally had it. Getting a TiVo is definitely worth it for me, even if it;s more expansive than the crap they give. Reinforces teh adage that you get what you pay for.


Well I think it depends. I've had the Pioneer Series 2 with DVD burner for four years so I'm familiar with Tivo. I'v also used the FiOS DVR for the past three weeks or so.

I think if you use the Tivo primarly for recording and transfering or archiving programs to a computer, then the Tivo wins. But if you are primarily just viewing live TV and occassionally recording programs (and have no need for DVD burning or copying to computer) then the FiOS DVR wins. Why? Well, honestly I really like the FiOS UI better for watching TV. For recording programs, the Tivo wins but not by much. It's certainly not enough of a difference to justify paying for the Tivo, paying a Tivo subscription or lifetime fee, and then paying $8 a month in Verizon cable card costs. The only thing to me that the Tivo wins resoundingly on is the ability to transfer programs to a computer for viewing, archiving, or burning to DVD. If I could do this on the FiOS DVR, I honestly would have no need for the Tivo.

The FiOS UI is much better than the earlier version they had (which I've seen but not had). I really think it's better than the Tivo UI. I could give examples but it's not really my intention to bash the Tivo. But I have no need for the things Tivo seems to be adding lately like Amazon and Rhapsody. I use iTunes for my digital content and no amount of "new" features from Tivo is going to get me to change that. I'd like to see improvements to the box for making viewing better rather than this peripheral junk. For viewing TV, the provider boxes have surpassed Tivo (IMHO), and for recording they are getting close.


----------



## wmcbrine

bcaslis said:


> The FiOS UI is much better than the earlier version they had (which I've seen but not had).


It's not. It _looks_ better, but it doesn't work as well. They broke basic functionality, like the ability to select which channels you view in the guide... something they've improved since the introduction of the new software, but it's still not where it was.

I don't really see how anyone could rate this as superior to the TiVo interface, either, except (again) in terms of pure appearance rather than function. However, I only have a standard STB from Fios rather than a DVR, so perhaps I'm missing something.


----------



## bcaslis

wmcbrine said:


> It's not. It _looks_ better, but it doesn't work as well. They broke basic functionality, like the ability to select which channels you view in the guide... something they've improved since the introduction of the new software, but it's still not where it was.
> 
> I don't really see how anyone could rate this as superior to the TiVo interface, either, except (again) in terms of pure appearance rather than function. However, I only have a standard STB from Fios rather than a DVR, so perhaps I'm missing something.


To each their own. The guide in the FIOS devices just works better for me than the Tivo's. As for selecting which channels, I can make a favorites list. The only thing the Tivo offers missing is to select channels you get versus all channels. But with so many channels, I'm just going to use favorites, or if I'm just looking around I might use all channels. The missing feature in the FIOS is a complete don't care for me.

Another case is when I change a channel, I get the big Tivo display with information that either hangs around way too long or I set an option where it disappears immediately. Neither work well for me. The FIOS one gets me the info I want, is only around for a couple of seconds and is just faster than the Tivo display. From my view, I couldn't see how anyone could prefer how the Tivo UI works in this case. Additionally just typing in a channel or changing the channel is clearly faster on either FIOS box than on the Tivo HD.

On the other hand, I do think the Tivo UI is better for looking through a list of recorded programs. But for live TV, my personal opinion is that the FIOS boxes are better. Given that Tivo's subscription numbers are still going down (in the last report I saw), I think they need to pay attention to this stuff. You're not going to be gaining subscribers if first impressions by buyers is that your product doesn't look as good as one that is cheaper from your TV service provider.


----------



## wmcbrine

bcaslis said:


> Another case is when I change a channel, I get the big Tivo display with information that either hangs around way too long or I set an option where it disappears immediately. Neither work well for me.


Just hit "Clear" to clear it when you want. Also, if you don't want the full banner every time (I don't either), set it to use one of the smaller banners -- just press the right arrow key when the info banner is up. I prefer the bar that includes the title, but not the full info. Unfortunately I find that this setting comes unstuck fairly often.


----------



## bcaslis

wmcbrine said:


> Just hit "Clear" to clear it when you want. Also, if you don't want the full banner every time (I don't either), set it to use one of the smaller banners -- just press the right arrow key when the info banner is up. I prefer the bar that includes the title, but not the full info. Unfortunately I find that this setting comes unstuck fairly often.


Thanks, those are good suggestions. I've have to try the different banners tonight, I had forgotten that was possible.


----------



## ericlhyman

JediTim said:


> Tomorrow is my big day for a conversion from my DirecTV TiVo's to Verizon FiOS with two TiVo HD Units with Lifetime subscription. I previously posted this under a new thread but thought I should make comments here as well.
> 
> I have terminated all my connections to the units with one remaining currently as a SD TV with S-Video inputs and the other into a new LG LVD TV with a HDMI input. I have enusred the software versions were updated from the 8.1 from the boxes I received to the current 9.3a.
> 
> I am really hoping that the install tomorrow goes relatively smooth...I already have the ONT installed from the Phone & Internet connection so this should be a little quicker. My two concerns are hoping that the installer has previously dealt with CableCARDs / Tivo and the potential problems with the 9.3a software. However, in reading the posts on the 9.3a I am unsure how widespread the problem is...it doesn't appear as though everyone is having the problem.
> 
> Tim


Did you notice much improvement in your SD and HD picture quality after the switch? I am considering a switch.


----------



## TheBar1

ericlhyman said:


> Did you notice much improvement in your SD and HD picture quality after the switch? I am considering a switch.


I switched from DirecTV to FiOS last year, and there is a very obvious improvement on the SD channels I'm now getting with FiOS. I never had HD with DirecTV, so I can't offer an opinion there.


----------



## thegeek

TheBar1 said:


> I switched from DirecTV to FiOS last year, and there is a very obvious improvement on the SD channels I'm now getting with FiOS. I never had HD with DirecTV, so I can't offer an opinion there.


I too have been remarkably impressed in the difference between FiOS SD and DirecTV. With DirecTV I had forgotten how good even SD can look.

To the best of my knowledge, HD and everything else on FiOS goes out untouched from the video provider. No recompression or tinkering of that sort. Just google for "HD lite" and DirecTV to get your answer on what DirecTV does with their HD feeds.


----------



## webin

You are correct that Verizon doesn't recompress the video like Comcast and DirectTV do (and probably others). The reason is that there's no need. The delivery technology Verizon is using (fiber optic to the home) means they have a MASSIVE capacity compared to other content providers. Comcast and DirecTV use a soda straw, and Verizon has a fire hose (or maybe a couple fire hoses).


----------



## riffjim4069

I ordered a $179 refurished TiVO HD from yesterday. I decided that I could no longer live with the FiOS HD DVR...especially since Verizon cannot tell me when, or if, eSATA will ever be enabled, and I have a WD My DVR that is currently not being used. Earlier that day, I called Verizon's Fiber Solutions Center and they told me a couple things: the M-Card will only be available in the new receivers (FCC's requirement for separable security), and I would have to schedule an appointment for installation since they don't permit self-install. Ugh!...continue to get a different story each time I call. Anyway, I elected to order a free digital set-top-box (due to the upcoming analog to all digital conversion), and take care of the Cablecard issue another day.

This morning I decided to order Cablecards and was told that a Verizon Tech could install the cards at $74.99, or they could mail the cards, install it myself, and save the installation fee, plus taxes, fees, etc. Needless to say, I opted to install it install it myself and save $80 for ten minutes of work. As it turns out, I cannot order Cablecards until my previous order (free digital STB) is completed (received, activated, plus one business day for processing). I love the FiOS broadband and TV, but their billing and ordering systems is terrible. 

Oh well, at least their CSRs are always friendly and speak english!


----------



## crapmaster

The FiosTV is being rolled out in the Seattle area where I leave and I'm thinking to jump into wagon. I currently have the Fios internet service, connected via coax from ONT to the Actiontec router. A couple of questions (I apologize if this has been addressed already, I spent 10-15 minutes searching around the forums and did not find the answer).

1) Does the Actiontec router support NAT forwarding, meaning can I hook up my own router to one of the ports to add ports ? The Actiontec is in the upstairs closet where the communications panel is, and I need ethernet hook-ups for Tivo S3 and PS3 in the downstairs living room, and have only single ethernet port there.

2) Even more basic question, if Verizon provides multicast cable cards in the future, will that mean that the TiVo S3 will have 4 tuners, if populated with 2 cards ? I suspect no, that you can only use a single card, but would like to get a confirmation.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## wmcbrine

1. Yes, but that's not what you want to do. What you want is a network _switch_, not a second router. (Or a hub, but hubs have been largely phased out since switches are so cheap now.)

2. There are only two tuners usable at a time, regardless of card type. ISTR that multistream CableCards actually support up to six simultaneous streams, but the TiVo can only use two of them.

Also, the S3 (as opposed to the THD) doesn't, as yet, support the multistream feature -- multistream cards operate in single-stream mode. And it's rumored that this may never be fixed.


----------



## crapmaster

wmcbrine said:


> 1. Yes, but that's not what you want to do. What you want is a network _switch_, not a second router. (Or a hub, but hubs have been largely phased out since switches are so cheap now.)
> 
> 2. There are only two tuners usable at a time, regardless of card type. ISTR that multistream CableCards actually support up to six simultaneous streams, but the TiVo can only use two of them.
> 
> Also, the S3 (as opposed to the THD) doesn't, as yet, support the multistream feature -- multistream cards operate in single-stream mode. And it's rumored that this may never be fixed.


Thanks for the quick response wmcbrine. Can you please elaborate your first anwser, I thought all routers have a built-in switch ? I would not use the wireless portion of the box (and would disable that, if there is an option to do that), I just need more 100MB ethernet ports.


----------



## webin

If you already have the second router, yes, you could hook it up. Some people put their own router behind the actiontec so that verizon can ping the verizon router and install their firmware updates (through the unclosable back door open port), and then use their own more secure router to feed their LAN. What wmcbrine was referring to was a dedicated switch such as http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Sate...nksys/Common/VisitorWrapper&lid=4856933028B08 that would happily direct traffic on your network without trying to be the traffic cop.


----------



## wmcbrine

crapmaster said:


> Can you please elaborate your first anwser, I thought all routers have a built-in switch ?


They do, but that's the only part you need, so you're wasting your money and making your setup unnecessarily complicated by buying and installing a full router when only a switch is required.

webin, your link points to a router. Here are some plain switches:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=3697306&type=product&id=1051384141038
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7169244&type=product&id=1110266457435
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7650357&type=product&id=1134699430298

Apart from the price, the advantage of these is that you just plug them in and go. There is no setup. You take your one port, connect it to the "uplink" port on the switch (if it has one -- modern switches tend to be autosensing), and hook up your various devices to the other ports on the switch. That's it; you're done.


----------



## webin

wmcbrine said:


> webin, your link points to a router. Here are some plain switches:


That's what I get for posting instead of sleeping.


----------



## crapmaster

Thanks guys, I got it. The reason I was looking to use a wireless router is that I have one of those lying around, I'm not looking to buy anything new. So your reasoning makes perfect sense, I will give it a try with my existing router. Thanks again, case closed I hope.


----------



## crapmaster

Allrights, I hooked my Netgear WGT624v3 router into the port 1 of the Actiontec. While I get an IP address on the PC connected to Netgear, I don't have internet connection on that PC. I'm guessing the problem is the firewall on the Actiontec. When browsing to the Actiontec configuration page, I see the Netgear as IP 192.168.1.2 connected to Actiontec. I tried to muck around with the firewall settings (I tried port forwarding with all ports open, I tried making static NAT for 192.168.1.2, and I tried making Netgear as DMZ, but nothing seems to work. I cannot (apparently) completely disable the firewall on the Actiontec, but I did that on the Netgear to remove that from the equation.

I need some help, any tips or links to other forums would be greatly appreciated to resolve this.


----------



## wmcbrine

My tip is to use a switch. If there's a way to set the Netgear to operate as a simple switch, use that. Otherwise, you're just causing yourself unnecessary grief.

Still, it should work (after a fashion) if you just plug in the WAN port on the Netgear to a regular port on the Actiontec. You don't have the Netgear set up for PPPoE, do you? It needs to be set for DHCP. And no, you shouldn't have to mess with firewalls and DMZs.


----------



## aaronwt

Once you setup a DMZ, the Actiontec shouldn't be a factor. I have mine set this way, and the firewall on the Actiontec set on the lowest setting. My Actiontec does nothing when you check the log except renew it's IP address every two hours. My Dlink router plugged in to one of the Actiontec ports that is on a DMZ is the device that blocks things with the firewall and hands out IP addresses using DHCP.

I find this setup easiest, since the Actiontec is still conneted to the ONT, that way, if Verizon needs to do anything remotely, I don't have to change things around. With my Dlink being on a DMZ, everything is just as fast as if I had the Dlink connected directly to my ONT.


----------



## rocko

crapmaster said:


> Allrights, I hooked my Netgear WGT624v3 router into the port 1 of the Actiontec. While I get an IP address on the PC connected to Netgear, I don't have internet connection on that PC. I'm guessing the problem is the firewall on the Actiontec. When browsing to the Actiontec configuration page, I see the Netgear as IP 192.168.1.2 connected to Actiontec. I tried to muck around with the firewall settings (I tried port forwarding with all ports open, I tried making static NAT for 192.168.1.2, and I tried making Netgear as DMZ, but nothing seems to work. I cannot (apparently) completely disable the firewall on the Actiontec, but I did that on the Netgear to remove that from the equation.
> 
> I need some help, any tips or links to other forums would be greatly appreciated to resolve this.


Did you disable the DHCP server on the Netgear? If the attached device thinks the Netgear is the gateway it's going to be disappointed.

The Actiontec should still be the boss - that's how I have it set up on my network anyway.


----------



## crapmaster

Thanks guys, I got it working. The key indeed was to disable the DHCP on Netgear, and also not to use the WAN port of the Netgear, but any of the LAN ports. So the set-up works now as expected. Thanks again all.


----------



## dbphotos

I've read through a lot of these posts and am thinking it's tme for me to switch from DTV to FIOS and the new Series 3 HD TIVO with M-Card. I'm in North Texas. Does anyone know of any continuing issues with FIOS an TIVO?

I'm a hug TIVO fan and can't stand the DTV HD DVR. I have TIVO on 2 non-HD t.v.'s in my house and just think they do a far superior job of what they are designed to do and they allo me to listen and watch podcasts.

Anything I should be aware of or concerned with if I switch to FIOS/TIVO setup?

Thanks!


----------



## webin

dbphotos said:


> ... Series 3 HD TIVO with M-Card.
> Anything I should be aware of or concerned with if I switch to FIOS/TIVO setup?
> 
> Thanks!


Good choice. The only thing I notice from your comments... Verizon doesn't offer M-Cards. You can only get 2 S-Cards, which will cost you $7.98 a month.


----------



## FiosUser

dbphotos said:


> I've read through a lot of these posts and am thinking it's tme for me to switch from DTV to FIOS and the new Series 3 HD TIVO with M-Card. I'm in North Texas. Does anyone know of any continuing issues with FIOS an TIVO?
> 
> I'm a hug TIVO fan and can't stand the DTV HD DVR. I have TIVO on 2 non-HD t.v.'s in my house and just think they do a far superior job of what they are designed to do and they allo me to listen and watch podcasts.
> 
> Anything I should be aware of or concerned with if I switch to FIOS/TIVO setup?
> 
> Thanks!


I have FIOS and a Tivo S3. The problem you will have is pixelation. You have to keep updating your connections every few months or so with attenuation, etc.

I got my pixelation fixed, but after a handful of months the pixelation returned. It has been a few weeks since it returned and I'm still going through combinations of different amounts of attenuation (a few weeks because it is hard to find time in between recordings to reboot the Tivo--since the Tivo reboot takes so dang long).


----------



## dalesd

FiosUser said:


> I have FIOS and a Tivo S3. The problem you will have is pixelation. You have to keep updating your connections every few months or so with attenuation, etc.
> 
> I got my pixelation fixed, but after a handful of months the pixelation returned. It has been a few weeks since it returned and I'm still going through combinations of different amounts of attenuation (a few weeks because it is hard to find time in between recordings to reboot the Tivo--since the Tivo reboot takes so dang long).


I'm a recent FiOS TV customer (just a few months now) and I haven't had a single problem with pixelation. My installer included an attenuator on the cable that goes into the TiVo.

I had an initial problem with getting the S-cards activated. The install was Friday of Memorial Day Weekend. They still weren't working right Sunday morning, and I had a tech there Sunday morning of Memorial Day weekend. (He got them working.)


----------



## webin

dalesd said:


> ...and I had a tech there Sunday morning of Memorial Day weekend. (He got them working.)


Wow. That's a tech that's dedicated to his work.


----------



## FiosUser

dalesd said:


> I'm a recent FiOS TV customer (just a few months now) and I haven't had a single problem with pixelation. My installer included an attenuator on the cable that goes into the TiVo.
> 
> I had an initial problem with getting the S-cards activated. The install was Friday of Memorial Day Weekend. They still weren't working right Sunday morning, and I had a tech there Sunday morning of Memorial Day weekend. (He got them working.)


What size attenuator do you have?


----------



## dalesd

I think it's 9dB.


----------



## webin

I'm fairly happy with 6dB on my line. Others around here use as much as 20dB. Your results can definitely vary. The best bet (in my opinion) would be to buy a pack of them so you can mix and match as needed. I got mine from SmartHome.com http://www.smarthome.com/7800.html


----------



## riffjim4069

riffjim4069 said:


> I ordered a $179 refurished TiVO HD from yesterday. I decided that I could no longer live with the FiOS HD DVR...especially since Verizon cannot tell me when, or if, eSATA will ever be enabled, and I have a WD My DVR that is currently not being used. Earlier that day, I called Verizon's Fiber Solutions Center and they told me a couple things: the M-Card will only be available in the new receivers (FCC's requirement for separable security), and I would have to schedule an appointment for installation since they don't permit self-install. Ugh!...continue to get a different story each time I call. Anyway, I elected to order a free digital set-top-box (due to the upcoming analog to all digital conversion), and take care of the Cablecard issue another day.
> 
> This morning I decided to order Cablecards and was told that a Verizon Tech could install the cards at $74.99, or they could mail the cards, install it myself, and save the installation fee, plus taxes, fees, etc. Needless to say, I opted to install it install it myself and save $80 for ten minutes of work. As it turns out, I cannot order Cablecards until my previous order (free digital STB) is completed (received, activated, plus one business day for processing). I love the FiOS broadband and TV, but their billing and ordering systems is terrible.
> 
> Oh well, at least their CSRs are always friendly and speak english!


Ugh! Why is getting TiVo so difficult!

Factory "reNEWed" TiVo HD arrived last week. When I opened the box, I noticed the unit had multiple scratches on the faceplate and a few minor dents and dings. None of my electronic components are scratched and/or dinged, and I've had a 26-year old Yamaha receiver travel with me to the far-east and back several times. Scratches, dings, and what appeared to be greasy finger print smudges are what I consider to be factory renewed condition.

Anyway, TiVo reluctantly agreed to pay for return shipping...can't believe they told me I had to pay return shipping after they mailed such a horrid POS. Since this was not an "Exchange", I was told to send back all the unopened items (remote, manual, cables, etc.) - I was told this one a "Return" and reissue. Additionally, I checked off the items on TiVo's return checklist and I enclosed a letter stating referencing my conversation with the TiVo representative.

On Monday, the replacement TiVo HD arrives. This time, the unit is appears to be in factory renewed condition so I can't wait to get it working. Well, I noticed there was no bag of goodies (remote, cables, etc.) in the box so, after screaming, I called TiVo. The TiVo representative was unable to help me since he could only ship a remote and power cable, so I asked to speak to a supervisor. The folks at TiVo are very friendly, but it took almost 40 minutes before he could figure out how to order the missing items. Ugh!

Now on to Verizon...as you will recall, a Verizon tech gave me the option of self-install or rolling a truck and paying Verizon $74.99 to install the Cablecards. Needless to say, I selected the self-install method at $0.00 and was told the cards would be mailed to our home address. Today I realized that almost 2-weeks have passed so I viewed our online account and notice the order lists a service time scheduled for tomorrow between 8am - 5pm. This is very surprising since I didn't schedule a service appointment, my Cablecards were supposed to be mailed, I received no calls or email to confirm the appointment I did not make, and there was no way in heck I am going to pay $74.99 for someone to slide in a Cablecard and pair the device.

Well, I called tech support and explained my situation. I was then passed over to the orders section where a very nice lady explained the previous representative "screwed-up" since Verizon doesn't allow a customer to install Cablecards - they must be installed by a service tech. Ugh! As it turns out the $74.99 installation charge is only a $19.99 additional outlet charge, but someone needs to be home tomorrow from 8:00am - 5:00pm...and I still haven't received my bad of goodies from TiVo. I guess I could borrow the power cord from my Pannasonic DVD burner and program my MX-700 Univeral Remote, but I really don't want someone touching my stuff (to include my wife) while I am away at work.

Anyway, so much for my simple Cablecard self-install. And here I thought I was special.


----------



## richsadams

riffjim4069 said:


> <snip> Anyway, so much for my simple Cablecard self-install. And here I thought I was special.


 Soooo, things can only get better?!


----------



## riffjim4069

richsadams said:


> Soooo, things can only get better?!


Well, yesterday evening I received a call from Peter at the local "Call ahead group" regarding tomorrows installation. When I explained what had happened, he apologized for the confusion and told me he would personally mail the Cablecards to our home address. Great!

Anyway, this morning my wife gets a call from Mary at the local dispatch telling her that Peter made a mistake and the cards would have to be installed by a Verizon Tech. My wife wasn't too happy since since she will be having a little dental work this afternoon, but Mary agreed to waive installation charges and work around my wife's schedule.

Verizon's billing and ordering system is horrible, and the left-hand often doesn't know what the right-hand is doing...but they sure are friendly and willing to go the extra mile in most cases.


----------



## richsadams

riffjim4069 said:


> Well, yesterday evening I received a call from Peter at the local "Call ahead group" regarding tomorrows installation. When I explained what had happened, he apologized for the confusion and told me he would personally mail the Cablecards to our home address. Great!
> 
> Anyway, this morning my wife gets a call from Mary at the local dispatch telling her that Peter made a mistake and the cards would have to be installed by a Verizon Tech. My wife wasn't too happy since since she will be having a little dental work this afternoon, but Mary agreed to waive installation charges and work around my wife's schedule.
> 
> Verizon's billing and ordering system is horrible, and the left-hand often doesn't know what the right-hand is doing...but they sure are friendly and willing to go the extra mile in most cases.


Ouch. What a nightmare!

We have Verizon cellular and agree...their billing and ordering system is a disaster. They seem to have a horrible time getting things right in the first place and then...and THEN if you have to change anything, say your prayers. We've been trying to get them to change our billing address for over six months now! Just the address!! Unbelievable.

I really want to switch from Comcast to Verzon FIOS, but the whole billing thing (not to mention attenuation, but I think I can deal with that) is making me think twice...or three or four times. Sigh.


----------



## riffjim4069

richsadams said:


> I really want to switch from Comcast to Verzon FIOS, but the whole billing thing (not to mention attenuation, but I think I can deal with that) is making me think twice...or three or four times. Sigh.


We had a Comcast (Internet only) for 7+ years because they were the only broadband player in our area. My my opinion:

FiOS broadband is superior (faster, cheaper, and more reliable) to Comcast; FiOS TV has the best picture quality and is a better value than Comcast (hardware/software are about the same); FiOS Phone...well, to be honest we were happy with our sub-$10 VOIP service for many years and will likely cancel phone service after our 1-year obligation; FiOS Customer Service is head-and-shoulders superior to Comcast (rarely did we talk to someone who could speak understandable English...and these Comcast reps were in Louisianna, Mississippi and Alabama)

If you can get passed the ordering and billing systems (finally got my first accurate bill after 4-months of service), then FiOS is a very solid and cost effective product. However, if you're happy with Comcast in your area, then by all means stay the course.


----------



## richsadams

All good points, thanks. :up: The techy side of FIOS is REALLY appealing to me...but not so much the wife. She was happy with her 19" CRT color TV when we met and still doesn't quite get all of the Hi Def, DD5.1, thunder woofer thing, but tolerates it.  She _does _however handle the bills and nothing ticks her off more...well, almost nothing...than when a company can't get their billing system straight. She handed Verizon off to me a while back and I've just now gotten them sorted, I think. Soooo...if Momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy. 

But I'll deal with the "war department" for a bigger pipe and better PQ any day, so FIOS will happen at some point.


----------



## winter

riffjim4069 said:


> Well, yesterday evening I received a call from Peter at the local "Call ahead group" regarding tomorrows installation. When I explained what had happened, he apologized for the confusion and told me he would personally mail the Cablecards to our home address. Great!
> 
> Anyway, this morning my wife gets a call from Mary at the local dispatch telling her that Peter made a mistake and the cards would have to be installed by a Verizon Tech.


I'm still amazed that after all this time the VZ reps keep telling people that they can mail out the cablecards when they can't.

I chuckle every time someone posts that VZ said that the cards will be mailed out because I know full well that they will later post that VZ made a mistake and the cards can't be self-installed.


----------



## Flyinace2000

i really wish they would let us do self installs. I mean it is pretty brainless. Insert cards and give Verizon some numbers. Clickity Clickity Done.


----------



## webin

I think the reason they keep saying that is if you are getting a new set-top box, they can mail it, and they aren't trained well enough on cable cards to realize that they are a whole other ball of wax.


----------



## MidgetBorderCollie

I just had a very pleasant experience with Verizon FIOS in the DC area. The tech originally called me with about 30 minutes to go in my 8a. to 11a window, but I had to leave right at 11, and he told me that wouldn't be enough time, but he agreed to come back at 2, when I would be back at the house. He called again a 1:55 and was at the house at 2. He left about 15 minutes ago. He seemed to spend most of his time waiting for TIVO to do its thing. He was very knowledgeable about the process and seemed to have experience with the TIVO HD. He did have to call the home office once and get one of the cards refreshed (I am a little bummed they didn't have an M card - but I'll keep trying to get one), but all is working well. I am still repeating guided setup to get my new channels into the guide, but we're almost done with that too.

I read this thread originally and started to worry that I had made a mistake in buying the TIVOHD, but then I thought to myself, it's probably just that people that have uneventful installs don't bother to post. So if you are thinking about getting an TIVO HD to go with your Verizon FIOS service in Northern Virgina, I say - GO FOR IT!


----------



## Ziggy86

Thanks for the positive feed back


----------



## webin

Welcome to the club MBC  I got my TivoHD and Fios last March, and had a similarly nice install experience. One thing to note is that Verizon still doesn't offer M-Cards. You can keep trying to get one, but don't expect results for a while.


----------



## Gregor

I'm getting FIOS on 8/23. Ordered some attenuators from smarthome, putting an outletn in where their box will be, is there anything else I should do?


----------



## y8s

Northern Virginia FiOS still doesn't have Multi-stream cablecards yet. 

I had the sales woman transfer me to the tech guy who said they have been trained on their use and installation but that they wouldn't be available until "later this year" with "no definite timeline". 

But he had experience with them to some degree so that's promising. He seemed to indicate that the switchover was part of the all-digital TV changes next year--to eliminate differences between providers. 

So the Verizon truck (79.99) is coming tomorrow morning with two s-cards. The saleswoman was already aware that a truck had to roll even though there was a mail-out option. Smart of her to check ahead. 

Matt


----------



## V7Goose

FiosUser said:


> I have FIOS and a Tivo S3. The problem you will have is pixelation. You have to keep updating your connections every few months or so with attenuation, etc.
> 
> I got my pixelation fixed, but after a handful of months the pixelation returned. It has been a few weeks since it returned and I'm still going through combinations of different amounts of attenuation (a few weeks because it is hard to find time in between recordings to reboot the Tivo--since the Tivo reboot takes so dang long).


FiOS service does NOT have to pixelate! And it does NOT need attenuation. If you make them set it up correctly and fix their problems, it works perfectly with the best quality picture. See post #10 in this thread for more detailed info on how to find and prove their problems:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6580907#post6580907

Good luck,
Goose


----------



## webin

Just followed your link and ready your entire post over there (I had skipped it this morning because I didn't feel like reading long posts). I find your observations to be fairly interesting, and to the best of my knowledge, new and unique. I can't remember anyone else mentioning finding the uncorrected errors in the Verizon box. My interpretation would be that the issue isn't in signal strength, but in how Tivo handles signal errors.

Would it be possible to transfer your post, or at least the main points of it, to the Pixellation troubleshooting thread: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=361244&page=28. I don't want your information to get lost in some other thread. In particular, I'd be interested in any insight you might have about what they found as the source of the issue (if you know), and how they fixed it.


----------



## V7Goose

I don't mind copying that info into the pixelation thread - I just don't want to look like a goofy cross-poster by doing that too much!

From my experience, it was very clear that my TiVo S3 did not handle signal errors near as well as the Motorola STB. While this problem was going on, the affected channels would have various degrees of pixelation and freezing ever few minutes - programs completely ruined. But the STB would only show an occasional line, maybe once an hour. The key was to pay attention to both CORRECTED and the UNCORRECTED errors. Both S3 and STB showed HUGE numbers of corrected errors - something like 30,000 every 5 seconds. The S3 reported uncorrected errors down around 1,000, where the STB uncorrected number was more like 5 - that is why I so rarely saw the problems on their hardware. But they were still there. All of the channels on the unaffected frequencies consistently showed 0 Corrected and uncorrected errors. Strangely enough, none of the techs who worked on this problem even knew about the error count screen in their own diagnostics. Every time I had to teach it to one of them, they were surprised.

BTW - as part of this troubleshooting, not only did they change the ONT 3 times (seems they could not believe it wasn't the problem, even though they could see signal errors on the line going into it!), but they ran a new coax straight from the ONT to the TiVo to prove that nothing in the house, such as bad coax or cheap splitters, was causing the problem. I think that running a new coax directly to one of the boxes is critical when "proving" to them that the error counts are in their signal!

They eventually found bad equipment in the central office - had to wait for a maintenance window at 0darkthirty Sunday morning to bring system down and switch it out. Then everything cherry.


----------



## Gregor

V7Goose said:


> I don't mind copying that info into the pixelation thread - I just don't want to look like a goofy cross-poster by doing that too much!
> 
> From my experience, it was very clear that my TiVo S3 did not handle signal errors near as well as the Motorola STB. While this problem was going on, the affected channels would have various degrees of pixelation and freezing ever few minutes - programs completely ruined. But the STB would only show an occasional line, maybe once an hour. The key was the UNCORRECTED errors. Both S3 and STB showed HUGE numbers - something like 30,000 every 5 seconds. The S3 reported uncorrected errors down around 1,000, where the STB uncorrected number was more like 5 - that is why I so rarely saw the problems on their hardware. But they were still there. All of the channels on the unaffected frequencies consistently showed 0 uncorrected errors. Strangely enough, none of the techs who worked on this problem even knew about the error count screen in their own diagnostics. Every time I had to teach it to one of them, they were surprised.
> 
> They eventually found bad equipment in the central office - had to wait for a maintenance window at 0darkthirty Sunday morning to bring system down and switch it out. Then everything cherry.


how do you get into those error screens on the STB?


----------



## rocko

Gregor said:


> how do you get into those error screens on the STB?


http://www.dslreports.com/faq/15925


----------



## y8s

Follow-up on my cablecard install:

It took under 20 minutes for two cards to be installed in my TiVo HD. Both show up as SUBSCRIBED. that cost roughly 240/hr


----------



## JacksTiVo

JacksTiVo said:


> As promised here is a summary of how my install went yesterday...
> ...Now the unhappy experience, I called Cablevision to cancel my services. It was a very unpleasant experience since the CS representative kept asking why I was leaving, bad mouth FiOS, offering free basic TV service for one month and not listening to my only reason for leaving. That is, they are switching to SDV and are thus discriminating against CableCard and TiVo users.
> 
> I repeated to him the conversation I had with a representative of Cablevision who had called me after I complained about the SDV move. She stated that SDV is a business decision Cablevision has decided to implement and I had then told her that I would then make my own "business" decision to consider FiOS.


Just to give an update on my experience with FiOS for the last three plus months and the followup calls from Cablevision.

The FiOS service continues to be great. The Internet speeds exceed what I pay for (20/5) and I have never had to restart the modem/router as I had many times with Cablevision. When I initially had some technical problems their Tech support personnel were very friendly and helpful. They are also local, in fact they work out of the Freehold, NJ tech support center, the town next to mine. When my initial upload speed was only 4.5 they kept working on it until it was correct with no excuses that it was "rounded up" to 5 or it was my PC. It is now about 8.5.

In the beginning of August FiOS added a significant amount of HD channels so that the total is now 100. They are all non-compressed and all tune with the S3's CableCards. The channel lineup change that occurred with the introduction of the new HD channels was screwed up by a combination of Verizon, TiVo and Tribune for about a week. Fortunately, I did not miss any of my SP shows since I was able to work around the problem.

The FiOS telephone service is exactly the same as if you had the old copper wire service, that is, not over the Internet, however, with fiber the sound is perfect with not static or cross talk. The only thing I miss is some of the features that were included by Cablevision, in particular, call forwarding (Verizon charges extra for it). On the other hand they just introduced a new free feature that provides caller ID, voice mail and telephone directory on your PC as a pop-up.

Now to Cablevision. They have called and I have spoken to them at least four times since I terminated service. The first followup call came the next day after I terminated and was the one in which they expressed surprise. It went like this: "Mr. XXXXXX you have been a customer for 26 years, why did you leave us?" I gave her the same SDV explanation, again. She offered to pay any FiOS cancellation charges and they would give me about a $17 discount/month (from $144) off my bill. I told her that making my S3 obsolete was the reason I left them.

I have continued to receive calls from Cablevision at least once per month and per my caller ID records they call almost daily until someone answers the telephone since they will not leave a message. The last call offered me the same service I had had for a $45 discount/month for two years ($99/month). Yet there is still no SDV adapter available.

I hope this posting is somewhat helpful to those considering leaving a cable provider or are interested in negotiating a lower rate by threatening to leave. Per my experience, they are willing to adjust their pricing to retain customers.


----------



## richsadams

Thanks for the update Jack...it was indeed helpful. :up: I've been keeping up with your various trials and tribulations and I'm glad to hear that things are going well.

Although they've installed everything in our neighborhood VZ hasn't offered up FIOS just yet. The more positive feedback I read the less nervous I am about jumping ship.

Are you still using a splitter to attenuate your signal...or have you had to do anything more for good PQ? TIA!


----------



## JacksTiVo

richsadams said:


> Thanks for the update Jack...it was indeed helpful. :up: I've been keeping up with your various trials and tribulations and I'm glad to hear that things are going well.
> 
> Although they've installed everything in our neighborhood VZ hasn't offered up FIOS just yet. The more positive feedback I read the less nervous I am about jumping ship.
> 
> Are you still using a splitter to attenuate your signal...or have you had to do anything more for good PQ? TIA!


I still have the splitter although I am not sure I even need it. PQ is crystal clear.


----------



## richsadams

JacksTiVo said:


> PQ is crystal clear.


Now _that's_ a sentence I love to hear!


----------



## Gregor

Jack, I appreciate your update. Tomorrow, I'm getting FIOS and ending a 26 year association with Comcast. Can't wait!


----------



## FiosUser

I am using a splitter and one or two (can't remember) attenuators.

I've had to change this configuration a couple of times since I first got Tivo (with FIOS).

I'm not sure why the signal from FIOS changed, but it did (and apparently does every so often).

I haven't had the channel realignment yet, but am dreadding it. About a month ago, I received the CNBC and the USA HD channels but the Tivo guide will not show any guide data for those channels.


----------



## Gregor

Lemme tell y'all about my fun with Verizon today.....pull up a chair, this is gonna take awhile. Smoke 'em if ya got 'em.

I'm hearing impaired, and sometimes it's hard for me to understand folks on the phone.

Today I got a call from someone claiming to be from Verizon that needed to verify changes I was making to my phone service. It was hard to understand, but I thought I got through the call OK. It's basically a 3rd party making sure that changes to phones are done by the right people and they aren't being changed without the customer knowing. In my case I had ATT as LD and inter-lata serive and Verizon as the main phone service, this was all being changed to Verizon.

I hadn't gotten a call from Verizon confirming my install appointment for tomorrow, so I logged into verizon.com to check the order status. My original order status was "cancelled" on 8/20 and a new order placed on 8/20 for the same 3 services. The phone service was "on Hold" and the internet and video was "on schedule". The installation date on the new order was blank, so I called Verizon with the help of an online relay service.

I got bounced around to 3 or 4 different operators before someone could tell me what the hold on the phone service was, and it was indeed on hold due to the 3rd party confirmation on phone changes, so an operator finally got me to the 3rd party and I could get it all straightened out. Basically they want yes or no answers to their questions while recording.

Got all that straightened out, and the order online now showed "On schedule".

Hung up and called back to Verizon to see about the install date originally promised for tomorrow (8/23). Got to a rep right away who started trying to figure out what happened. Never could figure out what happened, but worked for a long time to get the installation re-scheduled for tomorrow, as promised. This took over an hour to accomplish, mostly me waiting on hold, and the rep trying to find the right person to reschedule the install they'd cancelled 2 days ago. No one could explain why my order got cancelled 2 days ago, but they would work with the new order. Finally the rep comes back and says they can do the install on 8/23 as promised, and it will take all day. When he asks if there's anything else, I ask him to check if the 4 cable cards I ordered are on the new order. He checks and they are not, and he gets me transferred to the billing dept to get the order fixed. (At this point I'm about an hour into the call, again, mostly on hold). The new rep tries to add the cards to the order, fails and calls in a "specialist" who also fails. She tells me that she can't do it, and the cards are in short supply anyhow. I ask for a supervisor. After a short wait the super comes on-line and I explain the whole issue to her, telling her I'm not happy about having to spend 2 hours straightening out a mess Verizon caused, and I don't want to hear "the computer won't let me" as an excuse. She calls the dispatch office to get them to modify my order. After another 30 minutes on hold, she succeeds in getting them added and confirms to me the the tech will bring 4 cards to the install tomorrow.

I guess the cautionary tale here is to check your order status online while you're waiting for the install, and to start walking up the chain if things don't look right.

I'll report back tomorrow what happens. I'm considering cancelling the install if the tech shows up without cable cards, I don't really want to be without my S3s for any length of time....


----------



## FiosUser

I'm sorry to tell you that your install tomorrow may not happen. They might do a no-show.

This happens to me each time I have an order (6 times so far). 

Their system is broken somehow for some houses. 

I have finally worked out a process where I call in for an order and then get the order number once it is all complete. Then, I have to call some guy's cell phone number that works in the dispatch department, give him my order number, and tell him what I ordered.

Somewhere between customer service and the dispatch department the order for my house gets lost (and they do not know why and cannot fix it).

Every time I call this guy's cel phone he gets mad at me and acts like he's never talked to me before and wants to know how I got his number (he actually gave it to me a long time ago when I originally had the problem--ha ha I guess he thought I would never have the problem again and just gave it to be to try to make me happy). It was hilarious at first but now it is painful.


----------



## Gregor

FiosUser said:


> I'm sorry to tell you that your install tomorrow may not happen. They might do a no-show.
> 
> This happens to me each time I have an order (6 times so far).
> 
> Their system is broken somehow for some houses.
> 
> I have finally worked out a process where I call in for an order and then get the order number once it is all complete. Then, I have to call some guy's cell phone number that works in the dispatch department, give him my order number, and tell him what I ordered.
> 
> Somewhere between customer service and the dispatch department the order for my house gets lost (and they do not know why and cannot fix it).
> 
> Every time I call this guy's cel phone he gets mad at me and acts like he's never talked to me before and wants to know how I got his number (he actually gave it to me a long time ago when I originally had the problem--ha ha I guess he thought I would never have the problem again and just gave it to be to try to make me happy). It was hilarious at first but now it is painful.


If they do a no-show I will be very unhappy, especially after spending a lot of personal time getting this straightened out (or so I hope.)

In all honesty, they can't be worse than Comcast. I'm tired of dealing with Comcast...


----------



## sender_name

just a q? about the pixelations and signal skips. i am getting that on USA HD and SCIfi HD right now..But the signal strenght is jumping form 70&#37; to 99% slowly up and down...and I have a 10:1 ratio of corrected to uncorrected w/ 30,000 uncorrected and climbing. Is this an indicator of an attenuator being needed, or is it a different error all together? I asked the tech when he was here if i needed an attenuator and he said since they are all digital it isn't necessary, but i had to show him how to install the tivo cable cards so i don't really know if he understood my concerns...anyone? tia!


----------



## sender_name

hate to 2x post but i was doing some research..I have fios set top box qip6200-2. How do you view signal strenght/errors corrected uncorrected? Also, what role does rebooting the tivo play in the whole resolution of the pixelation on hd channels


----------



## sender_name

further research reveals (trial and error via tivo diagnostics..)

Fios Tv errors...
Ch. 680 Scifi HD
141000khz
SNR is jumping 33 to 37dB and signal strenght is 60-100 variable, no pattern
Ch. 550 USA HD
135000khz
same deal...
So it looks like a problem in that range, 135000-141000 and of course there is no correlation between channel # and frequency range so i am hunting and pecking for more


----------



## Gregor

FiosUser said:


> I'm sorry to tell you that your install tomorrow may not happen. They might do a no-show.
> 
> This happens to me each time I have an order (6 times so far).
> 
> Their system is broken somehow for some houses.
> 
> I have finally worked out a process where I call in for an order and then get the order number once it is all complete. Then, I have to call some guy's cell phone number that works in the dispatch department, give him my order number, and tell him what I ordered.
> 
> Somewhere between customer service and the dispatch department the order for my house gets lost (and they do not know why and cannot fix it).
> 
> Every time I call this guy's cel phone he gets mad at me and acts like he's never talked to me before and wants to know how I got his number (he actually gave it to me a long time ago when I originally had the problem--ha ha I guess he thought I would never have the problem again and just gave it to be to try to make me happy). It was hilarious at first but now it is painful.


Total no-show.


----------



## ogre1

Had unwatchable pixelation on NBCHD, particularly during Olympics (other random channels/shows too). Had SNR ~36-38db w/ RS uncorrected off-the-charts during 'bad' times. Read a couple threads/posts stating may help, so tried a new splitter (5mhz-2ghz replacing 5-900mhz one), but absolutely no difference. Added 6db of attenuation & things much improved (SNR down to 30-32db). Still get occ pixelation, but at least Olympics are watchable now. Thanks everyone.

Signal path:
Fios > TivoHD > Pio 74txvi receiver > Pio 1120HD 50" plasma


----------



## lrhorer

Gregor said:


> Total no-show.


I feel for you. It seems these days most comany's idea of idea of "customer service" is to annoy the customer more and more until they quit calling.
Someone needs to pass a law requiring all service companies (including doctors and dentists) to be liable for up to four times the customer's effective hourly salary for any delay in excess of 30 minutes beyond the appointment time. The BS of scheduling a truck roll "any time between 8:00 and 5:00" should be illegal, as well. If they were forced to pay $175 an hour or so for not showing up, you had better believe they would have showed up.


----------



## Gregor

lrhorer said:


> I feel for you. It seems these days most comany's idea of idea of "customer service" is to annoy the customer more and more until they quit calling.
> Someone needs to pass a law requiring all service companies (including doctors and dentists) to be liable for up to four times the customer's effective hourly salary for any delay in excess of 30 minutes beyond the appointment time. The BS of scheduling a truck roll "any time between 8:00 and 5:00" should be illegal, as well. If they were forced to pay $175 an hour or so for not showing up, you had better believe they would have showed up.


Rescheduled for Wednesday morning. Supposedly my order got "stuck in the system" so the techs never got it. I asked V to waive the installation charges, and the billing folks said they couldn't do anything about charges that weren't billed yet. So I have to call back after the install and they said they will remove the charges then.

More to come...


----------



## SCVTFR747

Jack,

I'm in Northern NJ (Dad's in Howell though). I'm switching from Cablevision to FIOS. Did you run into any problems getting the Verizon cable cards installed/activated. Do I need to do a complete reboot of TIVO so it's like it just came out of the box?

Thanks,

Scott


----------



## JacksTiVo

SCVTFR747 said:


> Jack,
> 
> I'm in Northern NJ (Dad's in Howell though). I'm switching from Cablevision to FIOS. Did you run into any problems getting the Verizon CableCards installed/activated. Do I need to do a complete reboot of TIVO so it's like it just came out of the box?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Scott


The Verizon cable cards will install very easily. To make it go quicker, while the Verizon Tech is installing the ONT hardware in the house, re-run Guided-Setup on the TiVo and select Verizon "_your location_" as the service provider. Also remove the Cablevision CableCards. Remember, when installing teh CC's make sure you insert teh first card in slot no. 1 first and finish its installation, prior to installing the second card in slot no. 2.

The Verizon CableCards have operated flawlessly since first installed.


----------



## SCVTFR747

Jack,

Thanks for the quick response. I'll let you know how it goes. The big day is 9/3.

Scott


----------



## kazz244

Gregor said:


> Rescheduled for Wednesday morning. Supposedly my order got "stuck in the system" so the techs never got it. I asked V to waive the installation charges, and the billing folks said they couldn't do anything about charges that weren't billed yet. So I have to call back after the install and they said they will remove the charges then.
> 
> More to come...


I wish you luck. I had a similar problem getting install to come out when promised to work on a Tivo install that required 2 S cards. It turned out that, at the time, the techs were unfamiliar with cable cards, so no one wanted to do them. I had to badger the dispatcher to send out a new tech after 2 no shows.

I happened to catch a guy who finished his first job early, and was looking for something to do. He did the cable cards no problem, and was extremely helpful.

This probably sounds like I'm not happy with Verizon, but I am. A problem with install and billing, but no worse than I had with Comcast. And, the Verizon product is far superior.


----------



## FiosUser

Gregor said:


> Rescheduled for Wednesday morning. Supposedly my order got "stuck in the system" so the techs never got it. I asked V to waive the installation charges, and the billing folks said they couldn't do anything about charges that weren't billed yet. So I have to call back after the install and they said they will remove the charges then.
> 
> More to come...


They will not show up again. I'm telling you. This is exactly the same problem I had.

In order to fix it (well, to get someone's cell phone or direct line) you have to email Verizon's executive customer support complaining about the no-shows.

Here is the email address you need to send a polite, firm complaint to:
[email protected]


----------



## JacksTiVo

I finally received a "clean" bill from Verizon. By clean I mean without any of the installation charges, credits or adjustments etc.

For those considering dropping cable service here is the breakdown of what I pay to Verizon:

FiOS Triple Freedom (2 year fixed rate) $104.99
includes unlimited phone service, TV and Internet at 20/5 speed. (You can save $10/mo if you take a one year contract and 10/2 Internet speed.)

CableCard rental: $7.98

International calling: $1.00 per month ($3/mo. discount for one year)

HBO $15.99

Movie and Sports Package (Showtime, Starz, etc.) free until Dec. 31. (Normally $17.99/mo)

Internet Security suite (virus, firewall, spyware, etc. $4.99/mo ($60/year). (I subscribed to their service since I have three PC's and subscriptions for Symantec's protection services is something like $69/year per PC.

Taxes, fees & other charges = $15.28

So I am paying about $150 per month which is about $4/month higher than I was paying for Cablevision. However, I am getting a lot more for my money.
I now have two free STB on my other TV's including the one with the S2 so I now have all channels available to all sets. With Cablevision I only had access to analog channels on my S2 and other TV and they were converting more channels to digital. I now have 100 uncompressed HD channels on my S3 with no threat of SDV and/or the need for another box to keep it working.

In addition, I received in the mail a $200 American Express gift card from Verizon after being a FiOS customer for 1 month.


----------



## richsadams

Thanks for the update and detailed breakdown Jack. All good stuff. :up:


----------



## Gregor

FiosUser said:


> They will not show up again. I'm telling you. This is exactly the same problem I had.
> 
> In order to fix it (well, to get someone's cell phone or direct line) you have to email Verizon's executive customer support complaining about the no-shows.
> 
> Here is the email address you need to send a polite, firm complaint to:
> [email protected]


V called twice today to confirm Wednesday's appointment. Once with an automated caller, the second a live caller.

Thanks anyway for the contact, I hopefully will not have to use it.


----------



## JacksTiVo

Gregor said:


> V called twice today to confirm Wednesday's appointment. Once with an automated caller, the second a live caller.
> 
> Thanks anyway for the contact, I hopefully will not have to use it.


They will also call on Wednesday to tell you they are on their way.


----------



## JasonE

JacksTiVo said:


> On the other hand they just introduced a new free feature that provides caller ID, voice mail and telephone directory on your PC as a pop-up.


This is cool, what is the service called?

- jason


----------



## JacksTiVo

JasonE said:


> This is cool, what is the service called?
> 
> - jason


Verizon Call Assistant


----------



## V7Goose

FiosUser said:


> They will not show up again. I'm telling you. This is exactly the same problem I had.
> 
> In order to fix it (well, to get someone's cell phone or direct line) you have to email Verizon's executive customer support complaining about the no-shows.
> 
> Here is the email address you need to send a polite, firm complaint to:
> [email protected]


I'm sorry you obviously had such a bad experience with them, but you can't assume everyone will. I have never had them miss an appointment (a little late once, but still came). In addition, they have not charged me for either truck roll to just put in cable cards. The guy that came out last week to put them in my new THD unit had never done a TiVo before, but had absolutely no problems. In addition, despite my pointing out the instructions said to do slot 1 first, he just stuck them both in at the same time. In fact, he activated the second card first, and everything still went just fine! It just took him about 10 minutes more to get card 1 working because he miss-typed the serial number when he tried to activate it.

So, my experience in North Texas with FiOS: They have been very reliable in showing up on all appointments. Neither the tech that did the CCs in my S3 last year nor the one that did my THD last week had ever done a TiVo before, but both had no concerns and no problems activating the cable cards. When pushed by my repeated complaints of problems on certain frequencies, they found and fixed problems with the signal quality coming to my house WITHOUT my having to play games with attenuators, and they gave me a good credit for the amount of time I had to live with the signal errors. Lastly, the FiOS picture quality is WAY WAY WAY better than any cable or satellite signal I have ever seen. The company is not perfect - I have my complaints on some things with them, but they have generally done an acceptable job for me.

Oh, one other really nice thing - they don't use any maddening copy protection flags on the signals they broadcast!


----------



## slocko

Hi all. I just ordered two HD Tivos. I'm going to need 4 cards right? 2 for each Tivo? 

Is lifetime service worth it? I'm debating it. 

I just dumped Directv after 6 years. Got tired of not getting new HD channels since I had the HR10-250. My HD locals came off an OTA antenna, but they were very susceptible to atmospheric conditions. I was using Vonage which was pretty good service, unfortunately, once a year, a storm will take out the adapter and they wouldn't replace it. And finally I got tired of the tangle of coax cables, splitters, and amplifiers. 

I've been using the FIOS HD DVRs but the lack of recording capacity and the interface is not as nice as Tivo, makes it less than desirable. Dealing with Verizon is a pain in the butt. You get bounced around, someone tells you one thing, someone else something else. It took countless calls to get a feature added that makes your the red light on your phone light up when you have vmail. No one knew what code to punch in to activate it. Some said it wasn't supported. Same thing for changing the number of rings before going to voicemail. Took a while to find somebody who knew how to do it. Signing up online to combine all services was another pain in the arse. Since I already had FIOS internet from years ago, the online system had a hard time dealing with that scenario. But luckily I already knew from the past, how painful it can be so I was mentally prepared to deal with it. And I work from home so it gives me more flexibility with spending time on the phone.


----------



## JasonE

JacksTiVo said:


> Verizon Call Assistant


Thank you,

- jason


----------



## slocko

Call assist is another thing I'm currently trying to add, and getting the run around.



JasonE said:


> Thank you,
> 
> - jason


----------



## sender_name

just an fyi...you can pretty much get any online deal over the phone just by asking. I couldn't select cable cards in optional equipment through the online special offer...so I called and they honored it


----------



## slocko

i tried, but they told me the 10 dollars off a month for your phone bill for the first year was only an online offer.


----------



## SCVTFR747

JacksTiVo said:


> The Verizon cable cards will install very easily. To make it go quicker, while the Verizon Tech is installing the ONT hardware in the house, re-run Guided-Setup on the TiVo and select Verizon "_your location_" as the service provider. Also remove the Cablevision CableCards. Remember, when installing teh CC's make sure you insert teh first card in slot no. 1 first and finish its installation, prior to installing the second card in slot no. 2.
> 
> The Verizon CableCards have operated flawlessly since first installed.


Jack,

Not sure if you have the internet. One thing I'm confused about is the wireless router. Does that mean all of my computers need a wireless adaptor? Right now I have a router, but I can still connect to it with an ethernet line. Thanks.


----------



## SCVTFR747

SCVTFR747 said:


> Jack,
> 
> Not sure if you have the internet. One thing I'm confused about is the wireless router. Does that mean all of my computers need a wireless adaptor? Right now I have a router, but I can still connect to it with an ethernet line. Thanks.


Jack,

I'm referring to FIOS internet off course.

Scott


----------



## webin

SCVTFR747 said:


> Jack,
> 
> Not sure if you have the internet. One thing I'm confused about is the wireless router. Does that mean all of my computers need a wireless adaptor? Right now I have a router, but I can still connect to it with an ethernet line. Thanks.


When you sign up for FiOS service, Verizon provides their own router for use with Internet service, very similar to this one: http://www.actiontec.com/products/product.php?pid=189

It's basically an off-the-shelf router you could buy at Best Buy (it has a very handy features Verizon likes). It offers 4 ethernet ports, plus Wireless-G (which is why it gets the name wireless router). Assuming you put it near your computers, there's no reason to add wireless adapters to your computers, the ethernet cables will work just like they do now for you.


----------



## JacksTiVo

SCVTFR747 said:


> Jack,
> 
> Not sure if you have the internet. One thing I'm confused about is the wireless router. Does that mean all of my computers need a wireless adaptor? Right now I have a router, but I can still connect to it with an ethernet line. Thanks.


I have all three FiOS services. Verizon will provide you with a combination modem/router that is both wireless and has 5 ethernet ports. Thus you will be able to hardwired directly and/or wirelessly from your PC or TiVo. In my case the S2 is connected via a USB to ethernet adapter and my S3 is via a TiVo wireless adapter. The wireless function of the router is excellent since the signal is about 50% stronger than the Belkin wireless router that I previously had.

The nice thing about the Verizon service is that all the components are supplied by them and thus they are fully compatible. My experience with Cablevision is that they supplied a Motorola modem, I had a Belkin router and they supplied SA CableCards that always seemed to be either defective or needing a firmware update. The Motorola components supplied by Verizon all have worked from day one.


----------



## rocko

Another nice side benefit -

Since Verizon runs MoCA on the coax you can get wired 'net connectivity anywhere you have a TV (connected to the coax, of course). Just hook up a NIM-100 and say buh-bye to wireless TiVo/XBox/PS3/whatever connections.

Bribing the Verizon tech with beer is a sure-fire path to at least one free NIM (mine left me 2). Otherwise, they seem to be plentiful on eBay for about the price of the TiVo wireless adapter.


----------



## FiosUser

V7Goose said:


> I'm sorry you obviously had such a bad experience with them, but you can't assume everyone will. I have never had them miss an appointment (a little late once, but still came). In addition, they have not charged me for either truck roll to just put in cable cards. The guy that came out last week to put them in my new THD unit had never done a TiVo before, but had absolutely no problems. In addition, despite my pointing out the instructions said to do slot 1 first, he just stuck them both in at the same time. In fact, he activated the second card first, and everything still went just fine! It just took him about 10 minutes more to get card 1 working because he miss-typed the serial number when he tried to activate it.
> 
> So, my experience in North Texas with FiOS: They have been very reliable in showing up on all appointments. Neither the tech that did the CCs in my S3 last year nor the one that did my THD last week had ever done a TiVo before, but both had no concerns and no problems activating the cable cards. When pushed by my repeated complaints of problems on certain frequencies, they found and fixed problems with the signal quality coming to my house WITHOUT my having to play games with attenuators, and they gave me a good credit for the amount of time I had to live with the signal errors. Lastly, the FiOS picture quality is WAY WAY WAY better than any cable or satellite signal I have ever seen. The company is not perfect - I have my complaints on some things with them, but they have generally done an acceptable job for me.
> 
> Oh, one other really nice thing - they don't use any maddening copy protection flags on the signals they broadcast!


Glad you had such a good experience. I actually was not making a blanket statement, but was referring to the specific story the person was telling--there were too many specific similarities to my past problems to be something to ignore.

You obviously had none of these similarities which proves the problem doesn't happen to everyone. But, the problem does happen and the symptoms look like what this person was going through.


----------



## webin

rocko said:


> Bribing the Verizon tech with beer is a sure-fire path to at least one free NIM (mine left me 2). Otherwise, they seem to be plentiful on eBay for about the price of the TiVo wireless adapter.


Why are these things not available from retail outlets? I'm fairly happy with the Tivo Wireless Adapter (which I got for free), but it these NIM-100s were being sold somewhere other than eBay, I'd be willing to try them out.


----------



## rocko

webin said:


> Why are these things not available from retail outlets? I'm fairly happy with the Tivo Wireless Adapter (which I got for free), but it these NIM-100s were being sold somewhere other than eBay, I'd be willing to try them out.


1 -I don't think they're manufactured anymore and B - I'm pretty sure they're Verizon-specific hardware-wise.


----------



## richsadams

If you do a search for "NIM 100" there are many threads here with more info including this one and this sticky. For those using MRV and/or transferring programs to their PC on a regular basis, the speed difference between wireless and MoCA is amazing. We don't have VZ FIOS yet, but when we do we'll certainly have look at using it.


----------



## webin

Yah, I was too lazy to search... I think I might read up on it anyway because it's an interesting aspect of FiOS setups. I'm unwilling to buy one from ebay though, so I'm probably out of luck for a while (seems cisco/linksys is developing one called the MEB200).


----------



## JonHB

I thought some of the pixelation issues on FIOS were being attributed to the THD not working well with MOCA??


----------



## webin

Well, that's a theory, but we haven't been able to prove it conclusively. In fact, I had my ONT reconfigured so it doesn't produce MOCA signals at all, and still get pixelation. My current top theory is that the signal issues are being generated in the Verizon central office, and being sent out to both Tivo and Verizon set-top box users.... but the tivo doesn't do a good job of hiding the errors compared to the set-top box. This is V7Goose's theory, based on his experiences getting picture quality completely cleared up in Texas.


----------



## Gregor

Had a great experience with the FIOS install today. The 2 techs arrived within the time window (8-12) and had everything working before they left.

Arrived at 9:30 and left around 3. Only snag was getting the cable cards working, they had them configured right, but had to call someone on the backend side to get the cards authorized to get the premium and HD channels.

Very nice experience overall. They did a very nice job locating the ONT in my basement and tidying up wires so it looks a lot better than the rat's nest that Comcast left.

Even with my AV cabinet being very complex, (4 Tivos, STB, DVD, Wii, etc) they were very positive about making everything work right.

Great picture, too!


----------



## webin

Gregor said:


> (4 Tivos, STB, DVD, Wii, etc)


Holy Cow!


----------



## jklst14

hey all,
I currently have the Comcast Triple play package and after months of setup headaches, it has worked perfectly for about a year. Now Fios is finally available in our area and I'm debating a switch. I would like the faster speeds of Fios but I am terrified of going through the whole cable card setup stuff again. So I was just wondering what people out here might recommend.

Thanks,

JKL


----------



## webin

Any potential hassle is far outweighed by the better picture quality and higher internet speeds.


----------



## JacksTiVo

jklst14 said:


> hey all,
> I currently have the Comcast Triple play package and after months of setup headaches, it has worked perfectly for about a year. Now Fios is finally available in our area and I'm debating a switch. I would like the faster speeds of Fish but I am terrified of going through the whole cable card setup stuff again. So I was just wondering what people out here might recommend.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> JKL


Search my posts from May 5, 2008 and August 22, 2008 describing my experience and costs. I am very satisfied with FiOS and would not hesitate to recommend the service to others.


----------



## Gregor

jklst14 said:


> hey all,
> I currently have the Comcast Triple play package and after months of setup headaches, it has worked perfectly for about a year. Now Fios is finally available in our area and I'm debating a switch. I would like the faster speeds of Fios but I am terrified of going through the whole cable card setup stuff again. So I was just wondering what people out here might recommend.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> JKL


I just did a FIOS bundle install today and it went very well. The Techs did a great job and the cable card experience was pretty good. Verizon in my area uses a web application to enter the cable card numbers, a huge improvement over Comcast reading the numbers over the phon.

I'm very pleased, it took multiple visits by Comcast to get the cable cards right.


----------



## jklst14

thanks for the input! I think I'm going to give at a try. Wish me luck!

- jkl


----------



## Fahtas1

I got fios last week and cancelled cablevision. I wanted scifi hd which wasn't on cablevision. i was also pissed that they put voom on sdv. I told cablevision so. 
Of course the installer didn't show up with cablecards --not on the order so he said---but another truck brought them. The installer said that "nobody is using cable cards anymore and 1 out of 1000 installs needs them. I guess we have a dying technology. Tivo better get a tru2way box soon. 

The installer did a great job but left the 4 cablecard installs until the end. All but the last cablecard installed easily. It seems that with the 4 other fios boxes I needed for my house, the 4 cable cards put the grand total over 7 which kicks out the last cable card install. An initial install can only have 7 boxes or cable cards. To learn this info took like 4 calls to his tech support. He got a ton of misinformation about what to do . Finally a tech guy deleted one box which freed up a spot and presto---the card worked. 
I was impressed with the installer. He stayed to like 9 at night and personally called me in the am to make sure that the deleted box was turned on by cust service in the am. 
Fios is great with tivo---very clear---
My only problem is that AMD HD isn't on fios---no mad men in hd --and MSNBC isn't on Fios either---kind of odd. I didn't know that when I signed up.


----------



## juicygrl88

Let me tell you since 24 August I have been trying to get Verizon to give me cablecards and I've had no luck with them. I posted this in a separate post as I didn't have this one.


----------



## Gregor

Fahtas1 said:


> I got fios last week and cancelled cablevision. I wanted scifi hd which wasn't on cablevision. i was also pissed that they put voom on sdv. I told cablevision so.
> Of course the installer didn't show up with cablecards --not on the order so he said---but another truck brought them. The installer said that "nobody is using cable cards anymore and 1 out of 1000 installs needs them. I guess we have a dying technology. Tivo better get a tru2way box soon.
> 
> The installer did a great job but left the 4 cablecard installs until the end. All but the last cablecard installed easily. It seems that with the 4 other fios boxes I needed for my house, the 4 cable cards put the grand total over 7 which kicks out the last cable card install. An initial install can only have 7 boxes or cable cards. To learn this info took like 4 calls to his tech support. He got a ton of misinformation about what to do . Finally a tech guy deleted one box which freed up a spot and presto---the card worked.
> I was impressed with the installer. He stayed to like 9 at night and personally called me in the am to make sure that the deleted box was turned on by cust service in the am.
> Fios is great with tivo---very clear---
> My only problem is that AMD HD isn't on fios---no mad men in hd --and MSNBC isn't on Fios either---kind of odd. I didn't know that when I signed up.


My initial install had 10 devices, with the last 4 being cable cards. No problems other than having to have them linked to my account to get the right channels, which required a phone call.


----------



## Jasper

> and MSNBC isn't on Fios either---kind of odd. I didn't know that when I signed up./
> 
> 
> 
> That's strange....I have always had MSNBC here in Herndon, VA, but we are still on the analog system.
Click to expand...


----------



## wmcbrine

Fahtas1 said:


> The installer said that "nobody is using cable cards anymore and 1 out of 1000 installs needs them. I guess we have a dying technology. Tivo better get a tru2way box soon.


Tru2Way devices will still use CableCards. And, it doesn't matter how reluctant the cable companies are to provide them (very). It's the law.

Far from dying, in fact, the cable companies must now use the cards themselves, going forward, in their own set-top boxes. Unfortunately I don't think they're mandated to deploy them separately, so they can still play dumb about installation procedures, and even pretend to have none in stock.



> _--and MSNBC isn't on Fios either---kind of odd. I didn't know that when I signed up._


This problem is specific to your area, where Cablevision has an exclusive contract with MSNBC. I think it's due to expire in the not-too-distant future, at which point Fios should pick up the channel. They already carry it everywhere else.


----------



## Ziggy86

JacksTiVo said:


> Search my posts from May 5, 2008 and August 22, 2008 describing my experience and costs. I am very satisfied with FiOS and would not hesitate to recommend the service to others.


Any pixelation issues with Fios and your Tivo.


----------



## Gregor

Ziggy86 said:


> Any pixelation issues with Fios and your Tivo.


I had some that I noticed last night. Followed the instructions in the pixellation sticky and got rid of it. -10db seems to be the right number for my Tivos.


----------



## JacksTiVo

Ziggy86 said:


> Any pixelation issues with Fios and your Tivo.


None recently. I have the new version ONT that Version is installing and I understand it does not overpower the S3.

I understand some pixelation and sound skips are most probably caused by signal transmission issues from the satellites to the cable providers receiving antennas.

My most serious problem is that I have a vintage(?) 2000 Sony 53" projection
HD ready television. They designed it to automatically detect the type of definition in the signal from the external tuner (in this case the TiVo S3, previously the SA HD STB). That is, is the signal from the tuner 480, 720 or 1080i? The set then displays briefly on the screen the type of signal it is receiving.

So when there is very fast action or bright flashes the video goes black and then the TV resets and displays that it is again receiving a 1080i signal. Very, very annoying and I am going to be replacing it this Fall. There is no way I can set the Sony TV to a fixed 1080i input. I have experimented with all kinds of S3 output formats, but that does not fix the issue.

I know it is the TV because another forum member described the exact same experience with the exact same Sony model that I have. A classic example of when you are an early adapter of new technology.


----------



## Jasper

Hey Jack, my Dad's new VIZIO does that. I thought it was the OTA tuner in his HR10-250......Could you please point me it the direction of that Sony thread. Thanks 

Sorry for the Hijack guys


----------



## JacksTiVo

Jasper said:


> Hey Jack, my Dad's new VIZIO does that. I thought it was the OTA tuner in his HR10-250......Could you please point me it the direction of that Sony thread. Thanks
> 
> Sorry for the Hijack guys


It was not a Sony thread, but discussed in a TiVo community forum see: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=389181


----------



## SuperRob

Had my install today. Mostly painless, after solving some residual networking issues in the house. Cable box and one cable card came up fine. Second cable card seems to only be getting the basic channels, and HD locals, but isn't getting anything 550 and above. I'll need to call to see if I can get that ironed out. Any ideas anyone?


----------



## webin

The second card isn't properly initialized... probably in the Verizon system. A call to the Fiber Solutions Center should remedy your issue.


----------



## SCVTFR747

Help!

FIOS was installed, but TIVO won't connect wirelessly. It identifies the verizon router, but after I put in the wep key shown on the router, it won't connect. As a workaround the verizon guy used a really long ethernet cable, but that's a temporary solution. Any suggestions? Is it correct to enter the wep key when tivo asks for the password? Or should I say there's no password?


----------



## webin

Your question might be better placed in the Help forum..... I don't remember the specifics of setting up the wireless connection, but I would recommend first disabling WEP on your router (so that you have an open hotspot), and see if tivo and connect to that. Then try putting a WEP key back in.... I think it's in the password slot, but I can't remember off the top of my head.


----------



## Gregor

SCVTFR747 said:


> Help!
> 
> FIOS was installed, but TIVO won't connect wirelessly. It identifies the verizon router, but after I put in the wep key shown on the router, it won't connect. As a workaround the verizon guy used a really long ethernet cable, but that's a temporary solution. Any suggestions? Is it correct to enter the wep key when tivo asks for the password? Or should I say there's no password?


Check to see that you're keying it in correctly. The only allowable characters are 0-9 and A-F. Also be sure you're connecting to the right router, I can see 7 FIOS routers from my house!


----------



## rocko

SCVTFR747 said:


> Help!
> 
> FIOS was installed, but TIVO won't connect wirelessly. It identifies the verizon router, but after I put in the wep key shown on the router, it won't connect. As a workaround the verizon guy used a really long ethernet cable, but that's a temporary solution. Any suggestions? Is it correct to enter the wep key when tivo asks for the password? Or should I say there's no password?


I'm pretty sure the Actiontec stores and displays the WEP key in hex format. You need to make sure you're entering the key in hex mode during the TiVo network setup.


----------



## Gregor

rocko said:


> I'm pretty sure the Actiontec stores and displays the WEP key in hex format. You need to make sure you're entering the key in hex mode during the TiVo network setup.


Good catch!

Yes the key is in hex.

(Also good practice to change the key to WPA....)


----------



## SuperRob

Got home today, and the second card was working fine. Must have just taken a while to kick in.

So now the new question ... anyone know when TiVo will have a correct channel lineup for the Seattle, Washington market? I'm using Portland, OR right now because TiVo didn't have a listing for FIOS Seattle yet.


----------



## dpoterek

I have 2 Tivo HD's....one newly installed and one a few years old. 

The olderr until started with Pixelation and partial records a few weeks ago. 

The new box has 2 cable cards installed and has pixelation and sometimes gray channels (both tivo's get this problem). 

Comcast has cycled thru several cards and they are not sure what to do. 

I notice only 1 of the 2 cards in each unit says subscribed....I pointed this out to the techs, but they say the pairing signals show successfull at the head end. 

What diagnostics can I do to ensure cards are working properly, or to look for any signs of trouble via the tivo diagnostics screens? 

I have been a subscriber for years, but I am ready to put a couple S3's up for sale and get a Comcast DVR.


----------



## Ziggy86

Does the pixelation happen for a few seconds? DOes it happen many times during a show? I am curious because Fios is available in my area now but I am worried about this issue. Does it make the viewing very bad because I can deal with it happening for a second or two once during a show.

Steven



dpoterek said:


> I have 2 Tivo HD's....one newly installed and one a few years old.
> 
> The olderr until started with Pixelation and partial records a few weeks ago.
> 
> The new box has 2 cable cards installed and has pixelation and sometimes gray channels (both tivo's get this problem).
> 
> Comcast has cycled thru several cards and they are not sure what to do.
> 
> I notice only 1 of the 2 cards in each unit says subscribed....I pointed this out to the techs, but they say the pairing signals show successfull at the head end.
> 
> What diagnostics can I do to ensure cards are working properly, or to look for any signs of trouble via the tivo diagnostics screens?
> 
> I have been a subscriber for years, but I am ready to put a couple S3's up for sale and get a Comcast DVR.


----------



## dpoterek

It can be for a few seconds or it can go to a gray screen. I also have it pop to the cablecard screen. So the results vary each time.


----------



## dslunceford

I'm still noticing pixelation on a couple of channels, but waiting until new channel lineup kicks in here on 9/22 before calling VZ back out to check it again. It's been a while since I poked my head in this thread...in general, are folks finding that the new ONT (asking for a replaceent) is fixing their issues?

Also, a question on how SPs will hold up when VZ switches around the channel locations. Will I need to go back and re-setup those for channels that have moved ("standard" HDs moving out of 800s down to the 500/600 range). I know SPs follow "time," but because they are channel dependent, I would think I'd need to go in and reset.


----------



## Ziggy86

I currently have the 611 ONT from Fios and I have heard it had some problems.

If I opt for Fios TV will they change this to the new one if I ask for it, if they don't I will not be getting FIOS tv


----------



## webin

I'm fairly certain they will want to upgrade your ONT to whatever the latest model is. When I added TV service in February, they tech wanted to swap out my ONT before he did anything else. If you ask, I'm almost certain you can get yours replaced.


----------



## Gregor

What's the new ONT model #?


----------



## JacksTiVo

Gregor said:


> What's the new ONT model #?


The ONT they installed in my home in May is model 612.


----------



## Ziggy86

Mine is 611, I have had it for about two years but we only have phone and internet now, looking to get TV in a few weeks.


----------



## mamosley

Ziggy86 said:


> I currently have the 611 ONT from Fios and I have heard it had some problems.
> 
> If I opt for Fios TV will they change this to the new one if I ask for it, if they don't I will not be getting FIOS tv


Which router do you have, the actiontec or dlink? It really depends on the tech whether or not they will swap out the ont. If you have more than two phone lines, forget getting the new ont, it only has 2 voice ports.

As far as a previous post concerning providers having to use cable cards in their stbs. Yup, you can no longer as a provider purchase equipment that does security and channel tuning in one device, but you dont have to stop using the current ones you have that do either.


----------



## sender_name

so using my tivo's card diagnostics i have Id a channel range that is corrupted...it is all channels from 135000khz to 153000khz. It is about 10 hd channels. I called tech support and they did a bunch of remote cable card reboots and are sending a tech out monday. I am pretty sure it is an issue on their end because in that range i get 1,000,000's of errors in 1/2 hour and 100,000 uncorrected errors that result in programming skips etc. I told them all of this and they are coming out to see...I will let you all know what happens


----------



## urkel-Os

Ziggy86 said:


> I currently have the 611 ONT from Fios and I have heard it had some problems.
> 
> If I opt for Fios TV will they change this to the new one if I ask for it, if they don't I will not be getting FIOS tv


I think the answer to your question is "maybe." I have a 611 ONT and have been told that the hardware at my CO will not support newer ONTs. I have the same problems as this poster. VZ has been unable to fix it -- inline low pass filter in the ONT didn't do anything, and the results with attenuators have been unsatisfactory (still some pixellation, and now the signals on some non-pixellating channels are too weak to tune).

Fyi, the pixellation was more or less eliminated with attenuators until a couple of months ago, which seemed to coincide with the removal of analog in this area. So I am speculating that there was some change at the CO that made it worse. I hope the channel realignment will put the six affected channels on different frequencies or at least allow me to get a new ONT here. Wonder what VZ would charge to replace the ONT...


----------



## Gregor

JacksTiVo said:


> The ONT they installed in my home in May is model 612.


I checked and that's what I have, and I had to fix the pixellation problem with S3s.


----------



## sender_name

a verizon tech told me that attenuators are not necessary anymore with the series 3 since they eliminated the analog and went all digital...


----------



## Gregor

sender_name said:


> a verizon tech told me that attenuators are not necessary anymore with the series 3 since they eliminated the analog and went all digital...


I'm supposedly all-digital and I have the pixellation problem.


----------



## webin

sender_name said:


> a verizon tech told me that attenuators are not necessary anymore with the series 3 since they eliminated the analog and went all digital...


It's too bad verizon techs aren't required to get their engineering degree before telling people stuff...


----------



## ira_l

webin said:


> I'm fairly certain they will want to upgrade your ONT to whatever the latest model is. When I added TV service in February, they tech wanted to swap out my ONT before he did anything else. If you ask, I'm almost certain you can get yours replaced.


Not necessarily!

I still have the Model 611 ONT. I added FiOS TV to my (existing) FiOS Internet in January 2008. The low pass filter solved my pixellation problems.


----------



## sender_name

Ok...I had a tech out yesterday to check out my pixelation. He confirmed... 1. It was not the tivo's fault, 2. The cards were working ok. 3. Buy hooking up to the coax he could see that there as a smalls signal issue in the Khz frequency range that all of my pixelating channels were on. The frequency range that the bad channels (Massive uncorrected errors) are sent on and a bad "something" card at the head was most likely the culprit and needs to be cleaned or replaced. There are several cards at the head that handle ranges of channels and the one that handles like 135000khz to 150000khz is bad in my town...i think he said each one handles 15,000 khz so you will have probs across that range..


I do want to point out that the attenuator solution doesn't work when this is the problem..But would work if coax was too hot from the ont. If you are experiencing errors on only a few channels then it's not hot signal..


----------



## webin

Sounds just like the solution V7Goose reached, where he convinced Verizon to replace something in their head end. It makes me really want to check out which frequencies I'm experiencing issues on.

What market are you in sender_name?


----------



## sender_name

I am in Northboro Ma. We just got fios tv like Aug. 1. We have had internet/phone for over a year but tv took a while. I love it. except for the bad channels...



webin said:


> What market are you in sender_name?


edited my profile...i didn't realize i was so secretive


----------



## kurtster

FIOS TV being installed as I type. Let's just say the installer doesn't like TiVo so much. He thinks they're a doomed cause because they're a hassle for installers and TiVo corporate doesn't like to work with Verizon. He said Verizon went to TiVo and tried to resolve incompatibilities and TiVo told Verizon they they shouldn't have to change anything to work with Verizon so Verizon tells all their customers to go with their own DVR because its more compatible and gets all of the channels. He straight up told me there may be channels I can't get with the Series 3. He is going to watch me install the TiVo portion and call to authorize the cards when needed. 

More info once we're done with the instal...


----------



## Ziggy86

Good luck with your install, make sure he leaves you some attenuators so you can try and fix any pixelation that may occur.


----------



## aaronwt

kurtster said:


> FIOS TV being installed as I type. Let's just say the installer doesn't like TiVo so much. He thinks they're a doomed cause because they're a hassle for installers and TiVo corporate doesn't like to work with Verizon. He said Verizon went to TiVo and tried to resolve incompatibilities and TiVo told Verizon they they shouldn't have to change anything to work with Verizon so Verizon tells all their customers to go with their own DVR because its more compatible and gets all of the channels. He straight up told me there may be channels I can't get with the Series 3. He is going to watch me install the TiVo portion and call to authorize the cards when needed.
> 
> More info once we're done with the instal...


That sounds odd considering I have Three Series 3 TiVos and one TiVoHD on FIOS with eight cable cards and have zero problems. Install of the TiVos was very quick. As long as the tech knows what they are doing TiVO installation is a piece of cake.

I have access to all FIOS channels except for VOD. Unfortunately it sounds like the tech doesn't have a clue and those are the techs that have problems installing TiVo.

Plus he should be using his laptop for the cable card install. No calls to anyone are needed. Everything can be done for the authorization from their laptop, if they know what they are doing.


----------



## Ziggy86

aaronwt said:


> That sounds odd considering I have Three Series 3 TiVos and one TiVoHD on FIOS with eight cable cards and have zero problems. Install of the TiVos was very quick. As long as the tech knows what they are doing TiVO installation is a piece of cake.
> 
> I have access to all FIOS channels except for VOD. Unfortunately it sounds like the tech doesn't have a clue and those are the techs that have problems installing TiVo.
> 
> Plus he should be using his laptop for the cable card install. No calls to anyone is needed. Everything can be done from their laptop, if they know what they are doing.


Any issues with pixelation on your Tivos with FiOS?


----------



## aaronwt

Ziggy86 said:


> Any issues with pixelation on your Tivos with FiOS?


No.

I did have problems from Comcast on a TiVoHD and had to put an attenuator inline, but that same box had no problems with pixelation from FIOS. I didn't have any problems with FIOS and didn't need any attenuators with the FIOS signal.
I have an 8 way splitter on the output of the ONT that the tech put in place since the ONT signal was so hot.


----------



## wmcbrine

kurtster said:


> TiVo told Verizon they they shouldn't have to change anything to work with Verizon


They shouldn't. Verizon is supposed to be putting out a straight QAM signal, but they don't always keep it clean. Verizon's own boxes seem to have better error correction than TiVo's, but we shouldn't have to rely on that -- there shouldn't _be_ any errors. On the other hand, if it's possible for TiVo to improve their error correction, they should -- not just for the sake of Fios, but on general principles.


----------



## richsadams

aaronwt said:


> No.
> 
> I did have problems from Comcast on a TiVoHD and had to put an attenuator inline, but that same box had no problems with pixelation from FIOS. I didn't have any problems with FIOS and didn't need any attenuators with the FIOS signal.
> I have an 8 way splitter on the output of the ONT that the tech put in place since the ONT signal was so hot.


Thanks for continuing to post your VZ/FIOS experiences here (and on the AVS Forum)...it gives me hope that if/when we switch from Comcast that things will go okay. :up:

Some of the horror stories you hear/read such as kurtster's make me wonder if switching is a good move as we haven't had any issues with any of our TiVo's for a couple of years now.

I really (really!) want FIOS non-compressed HD PQ as well as the big broadband pipe, but I really (REALLY! ) hate dealing with technical issues that only someone else can resolve...particularly if they have a pre-conceived notion about things they know little about.

I'm just glad to hear that things can and do go well, probably most of the time as most people that are enjoying their FIOS fed TiVo's aren't likely to show up here. Thanks again!


----------



## richsadams

wmcbrine said:


> They shouldn't. Verizon is supposed to be putting out a straight QAM signal, but they don't always keep it clean. Verizon's own boxes seem to have better error correction than TiVo's, but we shouldn't have to rely on that -- there shouldn't _be_ any errors. On the other hand, if it's possible for TiVo to improve their error correction, they should -- not just for the sake of Fios, but on general principles.


+1 :up: :up:


----------



## slocko

my tech had never installed cable cards in a Tivo and he still managed to get the job done with no problems. he was a really nice guy and even expressed interest in getting his own tivos. lol


----------



## kurtster

Okay it's done but not as expected. He had to run off to another call while the TiVo said it would need 30 min to download program data.

I get all local channels both SD and HD but NO cable channels, HD or otherwise. Is there anything I can do on my end to make them show up? It sees the channels are there and has program data for them but no image appears for any cable channels.

The Verizon DVR gets everything the way it should, but man the menus are ridiculous on that thing. It's like navigating a Windows file structure and there's seemingly no way to edit whether "subscriptions" (their equivalent to Season Pass) record First run only or all. I guess it's just going to grab all of them. Blah. i have to get this S3 working.


----------



## SeanC

kurtster said:


> I get all local channels both SD and HD but NO cable channels, HD or otherwise. Is there anything I can do on my end to make them show up? It sees the channels are there and has program data for them but no image appears for any cable channels.


It sounds like your cards aren't authorized (not sure if that is the exact terminology). By default CCs on FIOS will receive all the locals, including HD. When I had my install one card worked right, the second card only did locals, they had to come back and swap it out.


----------



## webin

It's entirely possible that you can finish the install yourself by calling the Fiber Solutions Center at 1-888-553-1555.

Edited to change "FiOS Services Center" to "Fiber Solutions Center". Also, I hate acronyms.


----------



## rocko

webin said:


> It's entirely possible that you can finish the install yourself by calling the FiOS Service Center at 1-888-553-1555.


Just to add my $.02 - On both of my CableCARD installs the tech had to call in to get the cards properly activated - even though the activation process on their laptops reported success.

I agree that a call to the FSC should get you squared away.


----------



## Gregor

rocko said:


> Just to add my $.02 - On both of my CableCARD installs the tech had to call in to get the cards properly activated - even though the activation process on their laptops reported success.
> 
> I agree that a call to the FSC should get you squared away.


That was my experience as well. Once the phone call was made, the cards started receiving all channels.


----------



## kurtster

Bingo. you guys are dead right. I called the support number and within minutes all channels appeared. After using DTV for 15 years I have to say, SD channels have NEVER looked better. Holy cow there was a noticeable increase in quality on SD channels. 

Now, for the first time, I have way more than a handful of HD channels, I've got gobs of them. CNNHD is stunning. So is Sci-Fi HD (Here comes the BSG finale in HD! Woo hoo!). I wish I could get MSNBC and an MLB package in HD but I'm sure those are coming in the future. Here's a summary of the results:

PROS:
&#8226; Reasonably quick installation
&#8226; Finally! TiVo and plentiful HD channels have arrived.
&#8226; No glitches (as some early adopters reported) noticed in the first few hours at all.
&#8226; Amazing picture quality. Noticeable upgrade from the HR10-250. I had expected them to be close to OTA HD broadcasts, but I didn't expect it to rival terrestrial quality and they do.
&#8226; Motorola DVR can do cool stuff with VOD and PPV.
&#8226; Single cable runs can provide dual-tuner (DTV w/HR10-250 required two cables to each location)
&#8226; More channels than DTV for about the same cost. Includes Outdoor channel (my brother is on the show Off Road Adventures - Tune in!)

CONS:
&#8226; $6/month CableCard fees despite having a lifetime TiVo subscription
&#8226; Waaaay too many channels. Dozens of channels are duplicated, making the process of going through the hundreds of channels and removing duplicates in the high number range (1500-1800) takes a lot of time. Also lots of Premium International channels that needed to be removed from the Channel List.

&#8226; Installer was either ignorant of TiVo advantages, towing the company line, or just plain stupid. NOTE TO VERIZON EMPLOYEES: When a new customer tells you they've chosen FIOS because after 15 years of loyal service, DirecTV forced them to choose between TiVo and DTV, and the customer wants TiVo, try not to tell the new customer how uninteresting TiVo is and how the they are going to go away eventually anyway. 

&#8226; Motorola DVR is really bad. Too much going on when the guide button is pressed, even in the alternate view. The third view doesn't give enough info. The folder view is so mechanical and non-human in its design that I want to throw my remote at the TV when i see lists of folders like that. The USB ports are turned off (WTF?). This port disabling crap is one of the things that makes TiVo so cool. There's a community built around enabling dead ports, or buying new boxes that have them enabled like the S3. Motorola and other like them just don't get it. It's a bit of a tangent I know, but when I see this box I'm reminded of why for more than 20 years phone companies like Motorola ignored the importance of user interface, opting to focus on utilitarianism and function over style and smoothness. It wasn't until Apple introduced the iPhone that the phone providers woke up out of their user interface coma. This DVR's menus are scarily similar to that of Motorola phones, which is bad IMO.

&#8226; No MLB package at any price

Sorry to bag so long on their DVR. Probably not appropriate here, but I thought i'd help anyone thinking about the jump to know what to expect. There was no option to order FIOS TV without a set top box or DVR and still get the bundle deal price. At least the DVR is free for a year.


----------



## kurtster

I've noticed some anomalies in aspect ratio on some material. For example, I downloaded the first episode of Til Death free from the Amazon service ability on this S3. The show appears to be squished vertically to force a letterboxed look from 16:9 source material. The show isn't HD but is the full width of a 16x9 image. If I stretch the screen vertically (as I would for a 2.35:1 presentation) it properly fills the 16x9 frame.

That could be explained as an Amazon problem but I also noticed on TBSHD the show Sex and the City (noticed in passing...I wouldn't watch that if you paid me) was stretched horizontally. it appears to be a 4 x 3 image being stretched at the source to fill the 16x9 screen. Using the Aspect button on the TiVo remote has no effect. Settings are for 16x9 TV and Letterbox/Pillarbox option. These are the only source material i've noticed this with. All other channels appear normal.


----------



## aaronwt

Several channels do that crap with 4:3 content.


----------



## nemein

Just did the switch to FIOS from Cox myself yesterday. Overall it went fairly smoothly, the tech did have to call twice to get the pairing to work properly, but when he left everything was working fine (and unlike w/ Cox I mean everything/all the channels). I haven't had much time to play around w/ it yet so I'm not sure about the quality/pixilation issues but I'll keep an eye out for it. It does seem like changing the channels take a little longer but it's not too bad.

One thing I did notice (not sure anyone has mentioned this) if you swap the top two items on your season pass list it'll re-sequence all of them and change the channels to what they should be/what the new one are.


----------



## Ziggy86

Keep us posted as to your picture quality and pixelation issues, hope you have none.


----------



## sender_name

aaronwt said:


> Several channels do that crap with 4:3 content.


TNTHD, HGHD both do that...so it gives it a fish bowl effect...everyone on the edges is 10ft tall...I was watching an Angel rr on TNTHD the other day and it was just too much to take. After getting use to real hd that stretch crap is horrible. I would rather expand the SD letterbox via tivo aspect


----------



## 3morgans

I have a Series 3 (original) and am in the Northern Virginia area. I have a new install of FIOS scheduled for Friday. I have called Verizon twice to ensure the tech is going to bring two cable cards, but when I call, they say they can't see the installer notes. They also say that since cable cards aren't serialized they don't sign them out, the installer would just have them on the truck. I highly doubt that is true.

Any suggestions to ensure that this install appointment isn't a waste of my time? I don't want to have to schedule another appointment just to get my TiVo up and running.

Eric


----------



## Gregor

3morgans said:


> I have a Series 3 (original) and am in the Northern Virginia area. I have a new install of FIOS scheduled for Friday. I have called Verizon twice to ensure the tech is going to bring two cable cards, but when I call, they say they can't see the installer notes. They also say that since cable cards aren't serialized they don't sign them out, the installer would just have them on the truck. I highly doubt that is true.
> 
> Any suggestions to ensure that this install appointment isn't a waste of my time? I don't want to have to schedule another appointment just to get my TiVo up and running.
> 
> Eric


Escalate the call to a supervisor. I got the same answer and I finally told them "I don't want to hear that your computer won't let you do something".

I had to be persistent


----------



## nemein

It also seems to matter when you order. I initially responded to one of those MANY MANY fliers they would send in the mail but it was after hours so I got passed on to some sort of call service center. The guy I talked too and setup the initial order w/ told me I could add the S cards on later. I called back during normal hours to verify the order and the person I talked to that time said orders couldn't be changed like that so I had to cancel that one and create a whole new order that specifically stated S cards were needed.


----------



## aaronwt

3morgans said:


> I have a Series 3 (original) and am in the Northern Virginia area. I have a new install of FIOS scheduled for Friday. I have called Verizon twice to ensure the tech is going to bring two cable cards, but when I call, they say they can't see the installer notes. They also say that since cable cards aren't serialized they don't sign them out, the installer would just have them on the truck. I highly doubt that is true.
> 
> Any suggestions to ensure that this install appointment isn't a waste of my time? I don't want to have to schedule another appointment just to get my TiVo up and running.
> 
> Eric


You might not have a choice but to have a second appointment, especially if there are any problems with the cable cards. One of my cards crapped out on me several hours after the install. But at least they were accommodating with the return appointment.


----------



## richsadams

kurtster said:


> I've noticed some anomalies in aspect ratio on some material.


Thanks for the updates and glad to hear things are working well. :up: So no low-pass filters, attenuators or anything? Just a line in to TiVo? Good news.

As aaronwt mentioned, a number of channels try to pass off 4:3 content as HD by modifying the picture when it was never HD to start with. Reminds me of Ted Turner trying to colorize old movies. :down: Amazon has the same issue although you should be able to use the aspect ratio to fill the screen. There are several threads about it elsewhere. Hopefully one day they'll go with true HD.

So enjoy!


----------



## nemein

One other thing I've noticed already is the file sizes on the shows are larger. I'll go back and double check that the recording settings haven't changed but for example previously a typical Myth Busters eps would be around 1.2G, now it's about 2.2G. Does that sound right? I guess it means the quality is a little better but it's going to throw off my DVD burning


----------



## ilh

Recording settings are irrelevant for digital cable channels as the TiVo simply dumps the digital stream to disk. FiOS does generally have higher bit rates (i.e., higher quality) than competitors.


----------



## nemein

ilh said:


> Recording settings are irrelevant for digital cable channels as the TiVo simply dumps the digital stream to disk. FiOS does generally have higher bit rates (i.e., higher quality) than competitors.


I'm pretty sure w/ Cox I did get the "quality" option on both Myth Busters and Iron Chef (the two I'm archiving onto DVD). I just haven't checked it under FIOS yet to see if that's still there or not.


----------



## sender_name

nemein said:


> I'm pretty sure w/ Cox I did get the "quality" option on both Myth Busters and Iron Chef (the two I'm archiving onto DVD). I just haven't checked it under FIOS yet to see if that's still there or not.


if you are recording standard def than you can chose your quality...if you are recording an HD channel you cannot set the quality b/c it is a fixed digital signal, reguardless of wether it is actually HD Widescreen or just a 4x3 carried on an hd channel.


----------



## ilh

You cannot set the recording quality on _digital_ SD either. It is a fixed digital signal (MPEG2) just like HD.


----------



## nemein

sender_name said:


> if you are recording standard def than you can chose your quality...if you are recording an HD channel you cannot set the quality b/c it is a fixed digital signal, reguardless of wether it is actually HD Widescreen or just a 4x3 carried on an hd channel.


I understand that, but I thought it went beyond that as well. W/ Cox there were some non-HD channels that didn't offer the quality selection, I just haven't checked if these programs still offered that or not... or if somehow they switched from the non-HD version of the channel to the HD version. Although I don't think that's the case because most of the HD files seems to be 5-10G.


----------



## nemein

ilh said:


> You cannot set the recording quality on _digital_ SD either. It is a fixed digital signal (MPEG2) just like HD.


That's what I expect happened. W/ Cox, even though it was supposedly digital service, I believe the channels weren't actually digital whereas w/ FIOS they are now. Like I said I'll look into it more when I get a chance.


----------



## DeWitt

Just a quick note to relay my so far positive experience. Installed this morning in NJ. We are a new area, Fios has only been available for a few months. Cable cards came up no problem. So far everything looks fine, no pixellation. Tech told me they where told the Tivo needed a really hot signal! he wanted to run it with an unsplit line. I had him put it in as it was and everything looks great. 

It is worth noting that I ran all new RG6 quad shield cable.


----------



## nemein

nemein said:


> That's what I expect happened. W/ Cox, even though it was supposedly digital service, I believe the channels weren't actually digital whereas w/ FIOS they are now. Like I said I'll look into it more when I get a chance.


That does seem to be the case. I just checked and I no longer seem to have a "quality" option on anything, even those that w/ Cox I did.


----------



## Ziggy86

DeWitt said:


> Just a quick note to relay my so far positive experience. Installed this morning in NJ. We are a new area, Fios has only been available for a few months. Cable cards came up no problem. So far everything looks fine, no pixellation. Tech told me they where told the Tivo needed a really hot signal! he wanted to run it with an unsplit line. I had him put it in as it was and everything looks great.
> 
> It is worth noting that I ran all new RG6 quad shield cable.


Keep us posted. I live in Queens and they just started to install FiOS tv, I am holding off until I hear how things go but all this pixellation talk has me concerned. Hopefully since this is new to my area maybe they will have the latest equipment and it will not cause this problem.

I thought a hot signal causes TIVO problems.


----------



## acvthree

A lot of us, maybe most of us, don't experience pixilization and haven't had to use any filters to achieve that result. It just worked from the very beginning.

Al


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## Ziggy86

That is good news, I guess you just hear about the problems.

Thanks for letting me know.
Steven


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## kurtster

Thanks for everyone's advice and help. Nearly a week has passed and it's freakin' great. I'm so glad I did this. 

One thing I didn't mention is that I called to order the cable cards before the tech arrived and they had no issues with adding them, and when he came, he had them so I can't complain one bit about the process of asking for the cards and having the tech bring them.

I'm really hating this Motorola DVR. What's with the ridiculous pixeliation/artifacting on this DVR whenever you pause an image? It's like their interlacing/de-interlacing and really doing it poorly. Freeze-frames are awful. I may pick up one of the refurb TiVo HD units. I have some questions maybe someone can answer:

1.) Will I be able to transfer to and from the Series 3 and the TiVo HD without any weird stuff?

2.) Can I just call up Verion and ask them to mail me two more Cable cards? Has anyone else here with FIOS had to order more cards because they bought a second TiVo?

Thanks again.


----------



## aaronwt

I was told I needed a truck roll when I added my 7th and 8th cable cards. 

If they didn't charge so much for a truck roll, and didn't charge me extra for CC I would get two more cable cards. But I'm already paying $24 a month for the ones I have.


----------



## DVRaholic

Just had New Verizon Fios service installed on my Series 3 on Wednesday

My area was turned on for Internet and phone in July, finally turned on for Video a few weeks ago

I initally had the Double play, transferred over to the Triple play without asking twice 

It Took them a while to get the Cable cards activated on my Series 3
Tech insisted on doing both at the same time even though I showed him the Series 3 instructions 
But we eventually got them going

Picture has been PERFECT no problems whatsoever on the HD channels. 

Tech did put a 6 db Attenuator on the line as he said the signal was coming in very hot, so this more then likely eliminated any potential problems

The HD channels are noticeably sharper then Directv's Mpeg-4 HD (at least to my eyes they are 

ESPN-HD looks Fantastic tonight!!!

I'm so glad I made the Switch 


FYI.. My ONT is the Motorola 1000


----------



## nemein

I'm curious about the pixelation problem everyone has been talking about. I noticed on some shows I was watching today (recorded not live if that matters) occasionally part of the screen would go kind of fuzzy for lack of a better description. It wasn't as noticeable as what would happen w Cox sometimes when parts of the screen would be obviously "blocky" and frequently change to different/random/solid colors. So if the former description is what people are talking about I think I can live w/ that. If it's more similar to what I would see w/ Cox I haven't seen anything like that yet.


----------



## richsadams

nemein said:


> I'm curious about the pixelation problem everyone has been talking about. I noticed on some shows I was watching today (recorded not live if that matters) occasionally part of the screen would go kind of fuzzy for lack of a better description. It wasn't as noticeable as what would happen w Cox sometimes when parts of the screen would be obviously "blocky" and frequently change to different/random/solid colors. So if the former description is what people are talking about I think I can live w/ that. If it's more similar to what I would see w/ Cox I haven't seen anything like that yet.


Most are referring to macroblocking such as you described from Cox, nothing "fuzzy". What you saw sounds like a random broadcast issue, likely from the source so probably nothing to worry about.


----------



## richsadams

DVRaholic said:


> Just had New Verizon Fios service installed on my Series 3 on Wednesday <snip>
> I'm so glad I made the Switch


Great to hear and encouraging to those of us waiting (and waiting, and waiting) for FIOS.

Enjoy!


----------



## nemein

One other really odd problem I've been encountering since switching to FIOS is the Tivo Desktop app is frequently crashing now and isn't doing the regular xfers it's supposed to be doing. I guess I should mention when I did the install I had to change to location of the router so the machine running the app was previously hardwired but it is now on wireless (as is the Tivo both before and after) but that's the only real change I can think of (aside from getting the ActionTech router... or whatever it is). Has anyone else seen a similar problem? I think I may be able to move this machine and hopefully find a work around, it's just very odd...


----------



## markp750

Here in the burbs of DC we just got the massive channel rearrangement. My lineup is all screwed up since this morning. Wrong logos, no program info, etc. I suppose all of my season passes are going to record gray or the wrong shows. 
How long does this info take to get updated? Will the Season passes automatically correct themselves or will I have to go in and rebuild them?

Thanks,
Mark P.


----------



## aaronwt

markp750 said:


> Here in the burbs of DC we just got the massive channel rearrangement. My lineup is all screwed up since this morning. Wrong logos, no program info, etc. I suppose all of my season passes are going to record gray or the wrong shows.
> How long does this info take to get updated? Will the Season passes automatically correct themselves or will I have to go in and rebuild them?
> 
> Thanks,
> Mark P.


Use the 21044 zipcode in the guided setup and pick the Arundel channels. This is what I did with my four boxes. I just unchecked the Baltimore stations and kept the DC stations checked. All the other stations are the same. All my season passes changed to the correct channel numbers and my boxes are ready to record tonight. The HD channels are there in the guide mapped properly. This is the best solution for now and the only thing you need to do is uncheck the Baltimore stations since they aren't on the DC lineup. While the Arundel Mills area has both the DC and Baltimore stations in their FIOS lineup.


----------



## markp750

Nope. Didn't work. I tried Repeat Guided setup with first my own zip code and then the one you sent me for Anne Arundle county. No luck. Still wrong logos and many gray channels on the old line up. Oh well, I will just wait and expect many gray season passes. 
Jeese, I miss DirecTV's perfect interface. Anyone want to buy my Hughes DVR340 with about 350 hours of record time?

Mark P.


----------



## wkearney99

Try using zip 10001 and select the New York Plus lineup. That works over here in Bethesda 20817.


----------



## markp750

wkearney99 said:


> Try using zip 10001 and select the New York Plus lineup. That works over here in Bethesda 20817.


I did realize that I still selected Md Fios instead of Anne Arundlel so lets try this again. Gosh, this should be EASY.

Mark P.


----------



## markp750

OK, It worked. I did the Anne Arundle zip code and selected Ann Arundle instead of DC Fios. Now I have correct channels. Channels are showing correct but Season Passes are still wrong. What a mess. Il will wait to see if this mess corrects itself. 

Marl P.


----------



## rocko

markp750 said:


> OK, It worked. I did the Anne Arundle zip code and selected Ann Arundle instead of DC Fios. Now I have correct channels. Channels are showing correct but Season Passes are still wrong. What a mess. Il will wait to see if this mess corrects itself.
> 
> Marl P.


It will take a little bit but the SPs will correct themselves.


----------



## nemein

A quick way to force an update of the SPs seems to be to swap the order of the top two. One other thing to note is even after the SPs and channels were all correct, the "To Do" list may still show the wrong channels. It didn't seem to matter though, it recorded the correct shows for me tonight


----------



## aaronwt

nemein said:


> A quick way to force an update of the SPs seems to be to swap the order of the top two. One other thing to note is even after the SPs and channels were all correct, the "To Do" list may still show the wrong channels. It didn't seem to matter though, it recorded the correct shows for me tonight


Right after I did the guided setup I had the box connect to the TiVo service. As soon as that was completed all my favorites I set up with teh new channels showed up and all my season passes changed to the correct new channel numbers.
If you don't force a connection it could take a while for things to be right. Everything was fine on my four boxes after forcing a connection. Although the whole process, including the guided setup to over 40 minutes for me which included the OTa channel scan..


----------



## pandiegirl

ilh said:


> You cannot set the recording quality on _digital_ SD either. It is a fixed digital signal (MPEG2) just like HD.


Ah, so that explains why I can't control the quality. Does anyone know how many hours the TiVo HD (regular, not XL) can record of the standard definition digital video? I just upgraded a Comcast/TiVo Series 2 to Fios/Tivo HD (the 160 GB, not the older 250 GB series 3 model) and I was surprised to find that after adding about 10-12 shows to my Season Pass manager, I wasn't able to add anymore because I'd run out of necessary space. I've not added any HD shows, and have all the usual settings like recording no more than five episodes of each show and deleting shows when the space is needed, so I'm a little worried. Could I be inadvertently recording everything in HD mode, without actually getting HD, of course, as these are not HD channels I'm recording.

What a pain about the DC channel lineup. I got home to discover that my Daily Show was instead No Reservations on the Travel Channel. Thanks on the tip to use the Arundel channels.


----------



## aaronwt

My hourlong SD shows on FIOS seem to be between 1 GB and 7.5GB depending on the channel. Some SD channels seem to take up as much space as an OTA HD channel even though it's an SD channel.

When you look at the description of the program in the "Now Playing List" hit the info button and at the bottom of that screen you can see how much space the recording uses.


----------



## richsadams

I've run into situations where I've recorded the same show (SD and HD) on our Series3 and our TiVo HD and the recording size is different...almost always larger on the THD.


----------



## b0rg

I called Verizon to order new FIOS service in NJ. I was going to order online, but I can't get CableCards ordered from their website, as far as I can tell.

The CSR told me that there would be an installation fee of $79 PER card. Is this accurate? It will cost me $160 to have someone come out and installed the cards? It's absolutely ridiculous. I believe Comcast charged me $25 total.

Please let me know if anyone has had similar experience, and if you been able to get out of paying that inane amount.

Thanks so much!


----------



## SeanC

Sounds wrong to me, the initial install for me, phone, internet, cable box, and 2 cable cards was for a single 80 dollar charge.


----------



## wmcbrine

They charged you for your initial install? WTF?


----------



## b0rg

So what should they charge me? I assume at the very least they should charge once for both cards, not for each?


----------



## wmcbrine

Initial install, they should charge you $0. The $80 is a per-visit charge (definitely not per-card) for post-install tech visits. That would apply if, for example, you'd had Fios installed, and only later decided to get a TiVo HD, and needed cards. Even in that case, you may not have to pay it.

Disclaimer: I haven't had a tech visit since they imposed the $80 policy, so I may not have the fine points down.


----------



## b0rg

I just called back and placed my order. Spoke with a very nice lady (Lynn) which was super helpful. No CableCard install fees at all.

Much happier..


----------



## webin

Yah, whoever you talked to before was highly confused.


----------



## sender_name

yeah...I think someone was being lazy and didn't want to do any more work before they took their break...You can get them to waive just about every fee there is...


----------



## dlesando

All you need is the cable cards that verizon will supply for 6.99 a month.
I have had no problems until verizon decided to renumber their channels. It took a few days and then tivo updated the guide and it works great.

Dan...


----------



## jap3

b0rg said:


> I just called back and placed my order. Spoke with a very nice lady (Lynn) which was super helpful. No CableCard install fees at all.
> 
> Much happier..


Please let me know how you make out with the S3 and Fios. I just got mine installed last week in Salem, NJ. I love the internet over DSL. I'm not too impressed with the TV. I've had D*TV for 10 years and Tivo Standalone, DirecTivo an HD Tivio.

My SD channels are not as clear as D*Tv. I do like the variety of HD with Fios though. I have a MOTO box and I HATE the fios guide. :down::down::down:

When you do get your cable card(s) can you let us know if they are the "S" or "M" cards? Everything I've read said the "M" cards should be out by now. Though I did read one post that said October.

Thanks, 
John


----------



## wmcbrine

jap3 said:


> My SD channels are not as clear as D*Tv.


Mine (with a Series 3 TiVo) were way, way clearer on Fios than they were on DirecTV (with an HR10-250). I guess a lot depends on your receiver.


----------



## lrhorer

jap3 said:


> When you do get your cable card(s) can you let us know if they are the "S" or "M" cards? Everything I've read said the "M" cards should be out by now. Though I did read one post that said October.


M-cards have been out since early 2007. I suppose it's possible Verizon doesn't have any stock of them pending their use of all their old S-card stock, but I find it unlikely.


----------



## jap3

wmcbrine said:


> Mine (with a Series 3 TiVo) were way, way clearer on Fios than they were on DirecTV (with an HR10-250). I guess a lot depends on your receiver.


I re-read my post and it was unclear. I don't have a S3...yet. My HR10-250 is clearer than the MOTO box that came with Fios.


----------



## wmcbrine

No, that was clear. That's why I said "I guess a lot depends on your receiver."


----------



## nemein

Wow... I see what people mean about the pixelization problem now  The HD shows recorded over the last couple of days have been almost unwatchable. The SD shows seem to be fine though.


----------



## JacksTiVo

nemein said:


> Wow... I see what people mean about the pixelization problem now  The HD shows recorded over the last couple of days have been almost unwatchable. The SD shows seem to be fine though.


I posted on another thread, http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=347640, that my recent problem with pixelation was caused by loose connections of the coax cables into my S3 and by using too many 90 degree swivel connectors. All of my connections are now wrench tight and I removed all 90 degree connectors and my picture and audio have never been better. That is not to say that the older FiOS ONT model 711 are also troublesome with pixelation. My ONT is model 712.


----------



## sinanju

dlesando said:


> All you need is the cable cards that verizon will supply for 6.99 a month.
> I have had no problems until verizon decided to renumber their channels. It took a few days and then tivo updated the guide and it works great.
> 
> Dan...


While ordering service, when I told Verizon that Comcast was currently charging me $0 for the first card and $1.74 for the second card in my S3 and that a $7/mo charge to replace the STB they'd otherwise give me for free was a deal breaker, they agreed to take those charges off of my bill.

We'll see what actually happens.


----------



## webin

sinanju said:


> they agreed to take those charges off of my bill.


Wow, I'm jealous.


----------



## jap3

wmcbrine said:


> Mine (with a Series 3 TiVo) were way, way clearer on Fios than they were on DirecTV (with an HR10-250). I guess a lot depends on your receiver.


So, are you saying that with a S3 on Fios your reception was clearer than an HR10-250 on DTV? I'm so close to buying an S3. I may pull the trigger tomorrow. Just not sure if I should get the S3 that has been discontinued or the Tivo HD. I'm wondering if the S3 (discontinued) will have the ability to get the latest software upgrades.


----------



## wmcbrine

jap3 said:


> So, are you saying that with a S3 on Fios your reception was clearer than an HR10-250 on DTV?


Absolutely.



> _Just not sure if I should get the S3 that has been discontinued or the Tivo HD. I'm wondering if the S3 (discontinued) will have the ability to get the latest software upgrades._


Yes, it will get software updates for the foreseeable future, just like the oldest of the Series 2's still gets. (Admittedly, they no longer support the S1.) Whether it's worth the premium vs. a TiVo HD, though, is questionable.


----------



## aaronwt

If I had my way all my boxes would be Series 3 boxes. INstead of only three of them while the other four are TiVoHD boxes.
The Series 3 boxes have been much better in every way in my setups. The only two things I like better about the TiVoHD is the location of the cable card slots and the price. 
But on regular usage I would have a serious problem using the TiVoHD everyday in my main system. After fast forwarding or rewinding it always takes the DD signal 1 to 2 seconds to come back up. But from my Series 3 boxes it comes back up in a split second.
My TiVoHD boxes in my other locations are set for pcm output so they don't have this problem.


----------



## DeWitt

jap3 said:


> So, are you saying that with a S3 on Fios your reception was clearer than an HR10-250 on DTV? I'm so close to buying an S3. I may pull the trigger tomorrow. Just not sure if I should get the S3 that has been discontinued or the Tivo HD. I'm wondering if the S3 (discontinued) will have the ability to get the latest software upgrades.


Night and day difference from the HR10-250. HD channels look just like OTA to me on my new Tivo HD with Fios. Suprisingly it is even better than the HR10-250 was on OTA signals.


----------



## Dzipi

I had an Verizon Fios installation yesterday, techs spend most of the time on other issues (FIOS - phone, TV and internet installation). When we finally got to the point of installing cable cards it was very late and here is what I am stuck with currently (I am at work and I'll call them later today, they were trying hard but they did not do it before - so I am afraid thay can't help a lot):

- Tivo is showing only broadband/local channes - in Standard def. and HD, but nothing else I apologize is this has alreayd been asked, but anyone had this issue before?

- Which zip code should I select during the Guided Setup? I live in Redmond,WA (98052) and Verizon is not offered as an option. Tried a couple of ?educated? guesses but got nowhere...


Thanks in advance!


----------



## bkdtv

Dzipi said:


> - Tivo is showing only broadband/local channes - in Standard def. and HD, but nothing else I apologize is this has alreayd been asked, but anyone had this issue before?


This is what you see when your CableCards have not been properly authorized.



Dzipi said:


> - Which zip code should I select during the Guided Setup? I live in Redmond,WA (98052) and Verizon is not offered as an option. Tried a couple of ?educated? guesses but got nowhere...


That's the first I heard of that. Submit a lineup report:

http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport/contactsupport/lineup_tool.html


----------



## jap3

wmcbrine said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> Yes, it will get software updates for the foreseeable future, just like the oldest of the Series 2's still gets. (Admittedly, they no longer support the S1.) Whether it's worth the premium vs. a TiVo HD, though, is questionable.


Very good. I was looking at the TivoHD today and almost pulled the trigger. But I got an email today from a certain upgrade place offering a discontinued Series 3 for $399. It's a bigger hard drive and after the comments from aaronwt I may just get the S3. I'll decide before bed tonight. Thanks for your comments regarding this. I love this place.


----------



## tividiot

Dzipi said:


> Which zip code should I select during the Guided Setup? I live in Redmond,WA (98052) and Verizon is not offered as an option. Tried a couple of ?educated? guesses but got nowhere...


Try 98072 (which is Woodinville). Worked for me.


----------



## pjb923

This is getting really frustrating. I am trying to order FIOS and finally got someone on the phone that knows what cablecards are and confirmed that they should work with the Tivo. I placed the order, making it very clear that I needed 2 cablecards and a DVR for a 2nd room, and the 20/5 internet service.

When I got the email confirmation it said:

You ordered: FiOS Internet [10Mbps/2Mbps]

FiOS TV Order Details:
You ordered: Essentials
-DVR Provisioning
-Digital Adapter - DCT 700
-Service Installation
-Free Existing outlet (up to 3)

She read the entire order to me on the phone. 2 cablecards and a DVR, and 20/5 service. Where are my cablecards, and where did the DCT 700 come from?

Looks like I'll be making yet another phone call to Verizon.


----------



## richsadams

pjb923 said:


> This is getting really frustrating. I am trying to order FIOS and finally got someone on the phone that knows what cablecards are and confirmed that they should work with the Tivo. I placed the order, making it very clear that I needed 2 cablecards and a DVR for a 2nd room, and the 20/5 internet service.
> 
> When I got the email confirmation it said:
> 
> You ordered: FiOS Internet [10Mbps/2Mbps]
> 
> FiOS TV Order Details:
> You ordered: Essentials
> -DVR Provisioning
> -Digital Adapter - DCT 700
> -Service Installation
> -Free Existing outlet (up to 3)
> 
> She read the entire order to me on the phone. 2 cablecards and a DVR, and 20/5 service. Where are my cablecards, and where did the DCT 700 come from?
> 
> Looks like I'll be making yet another phone call to Verizon.


That sort of thing worries me too. I haven't ordered FIOS yet, but our cell phone billing experience with VZ seems to echo what others here are saying...they are less than stellar.  Apparently their tech side is pretty good, but when it comes to getting something done on the paper-side of the equation, VZ gets a D- in our report card. We tried to have our address changed and it took them over seven months! Simple thing...we moved, please change our address. We did it on line, we called, we did it on line again, we called again, and again and again. What a nightmare. Hope they get their act together one of these days. :down:


----------



## nemein

So I just received my first FIOS bill and I'm confused... First they said everything would be broken out (so a $ for the TV, $ for the I'net and $ for the phone) but it's not, everything is just listed as FIOS bundle. This really sucks because work reimburses me for I'net access, provided I can show what I paid. Here's where it gets really odd though. I used to access my DSL bill/receipts [paid for it w/ a CC] online. When I logged in to look at that there is a charge there still. One that is higher than was I was paying for DSL so I assume it is the FIOS charge, but it seems to me they are billing me twice now (once online charged to the CC, and then a paper bill covering some of the same service). I'm going to call them later but I figured I'd ask here to see if anyone knew anything or had a similar experience.


----------



## nemein

nemein said:


> Wow... I see what people mean about the pixelization problem now  The HD shows recorded over the last couple of days have been almost unwatchable. The SD shows seem to be fine though.


Well it seems it was just the recordings early last week (last Mon & Tues) that were screwed up, so hopefully it's a transient sort of thing. It was kind of stormy those nights IIRC, is this setup that susceptible to storms/interference like that?


----------



## passatdream

I have FiOS and two Tivos. I have one S3 and one Tivo HD. Both have two cable cards. Verizon provides single-stream cable cards, so you will need to of them to use the dualtuner functionality. I've had no problems with Verizon's CableCards.

Chris.


----------



## sender_name

nemein said:


> So I just received my first FIOS bill and I'm confused... .....


Verizon has an online billing statement that is all broken down. That's what i use. Perhaps somewhere on your bill it directs you to the website for a more detailed bill?

EDIT: I just checked mine and they do indeed have a VERY detailed bill online.


----------



## sender_name

pjb923 said:


> This is getting really frustrating. I am trying to order FIOS and finally got someone on the phone that knows what cablecards are and confirmed that they should work with the Tivo. I placed the order, making it very clear that I needed 2 cablecards and a DVR for a 2nd room, and the 20/5 internet service.
> 
> When I got the email confirmation it said:
> 
> You ordered: FiOS Internet [10Mbps/2Mbps]
> 
> FiOS TV Order Details:
> You ordered: Essentials
> -DVR Provisioning
> -Digital Adapter - DCT 700
> -Service Installation
> -Free Existing outlet (up to 3)
> 
> She read the entire order to me on the phone. 2 cablecards and a DVR, and 20/5 service. Where are my cablecards, and where did the DCT 700 come from?


The Digital Adapter is a $4/month box that allows the standard def channels (like 0-499) to be viewed on a standard def tv. It is essentially a micro cable box. I have one in my bedroom for my tivo series 2 and 24" standard def tv. 
If you have told them you have 2 tv's and only ordered 1 HD box they might have sent a Dig. Adapt for the 2nd tv...if you have a standard def tv or a series 2 tivo you will need a dig adapter//


----------



## pjb923

sender_name said:


> The Digital Adapter is a $4/month box that allows the standard def channels (like 0-499) to be viewed on a standard def tv. It is essentially a micro cable box. I have one in my bedroom for my tivo series 2 and 24" standard def tv.
> If you have told them you have 2 tv's and only ordered 1 HD box they might have sent a Dig. Adapt for the 2nd tv...if you have a standard def tv or a series 2 tivo you will need a dig adapter//


I know what the digital adapter is, and I know that I don't need one. I have an HD Tivo and made it very clear on the phone that I needed 2 cablecards and a DVR for a 2nd room. She even got a tech on the phone with us to verify the availability and compatibility of the cable cards. Then she repeated the entire order back to me, re-stating that I needed 2 cablecards. 20 minutes later I received the order confirmation that I posted here.

I tried calling them back before I left work today, but didn't want to spend any more time on hold and gave up. I'll try again tomorrow.


----------



## timmymac123

I called Billing. I had to work the young woman a little bit.
First I called my local Verizon office to see if they had the cards on hand...which they did. They mentioned if I had an Order Number, I could just stop by and pick up the cards.

So I asked about Cable cards. I mentioned I wanted to pick them.
It sounded odd to her, but she accomodated.
I got my order number for two cards and ppicked them up.

I got home, put one in my tivo and called support to activate them.

Another weird call....the support guy asked if I was a tech...he he.
I of course said no, how much brains does it take to read two numbers
to a support person on the phone...he laughed.

After a few minutes and one remote reset later (I was only getting local HD, he did a reset and that provided the rest of the HD channels) I was off an running at my leisure with no support person on site!

--tmac


----------



## sender_name

timmymac123 said:


> I called Billing. I had to work the young woman a little bit.
> First I called my local Verizon office to see if they had the cards on hand...which they did. They mentioned if I had an Order Number, I could just stop by and pick up the cards.
> 
> So I asked about Cable cards. I mentioned I wanted to pick them.
> It sounded odd to her, but she accomodated.
> I got my order number for two cards and ppicked them up.
> 
> I got home, put one in my tivo and called support to activate them.
> 
> Another weird call....the support guy asked if I was a tech...he he.
> I of course said no, how much brains does it take to read two numbers
> to a support person on the phone...he laughed.
> 
> After a few minutes and one remote reset later (I was only getting local HD, he did a reset and that provided the rest of the HD channels) I was off an running at my leisure with no support person on site!
> 
> --tmac


NICE...
It is so simple to do the cards when you are familiar with the tivo interface...I was tempted to post on youtube "How to configure fios cards for tivo"


----------



## webin

timmymac123 said:


> After a few minutes and one remote reset later (I was only getting local HD, he did a reset and that provided the rest of the HD channels) I was off an running at my leisure with no support person on site!


Congrats! You are the very first person I've heard of that managed to convince Verizon to let you do the job yourself. Of course we can all handle it, but they won't let us!


----------



## richsadams

timmymac123 said:


> <snip>
> 
> After a few minutes and one remote reset later (I was only getting local HD, he did a reset and that provided the rest of the HD channels) I was off an running at my leisure with no support person on site!
> 
> --tmac


Well done! :up: But didn't you miss having nothing to do for four hours while you sat around waiting for the VZ tech to show up?!


----------



## pjb923

I wanted to give a quick update on my order status. I called back to update my order with cable cards in place of the digital adapter. 

Calling the number provided on my order status page I am greeted by a maze of menus, always asking for the phone number you are calling about. Since i don't have a Verizon phone, I just hit pound a few times to get through this first stage. Then I am asked what service I am calling about and press the button for Fios and say that I am calling to update an existing order. Once I am finally connected to a person I start to read my order number and he says "oh, this is about Fios... I will need to transfer you". Ok, why did I have to choose the Fios option in the menu if they are going to send me to someone that can't help me with Fios??

Next person picks up and asks for me Verizon business phone number. I tell them I don't have a phone number, but I have an order confirmation number. Her response... "I can't help you if this is regarding a residential account, let me transfer you." She was nice enough to give me the direct number for Fios support making my next call much easier, and she transferred me to the correct department this time. 

I explained the error on my confirmation and she made the appropriate changes to my order. A few hours later I saw that the order had been updated and now shows 1 cablecard and 1 digital adapter. I called back again and was told that the status on the website is not updated and that my order is correct in their system. She also managed to try to sell me their phone service before we hung up. 

My installation date is Saturday Oct. 25th, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed until then. I will be armed with information about attenuators, low pass filters and cablecard installation when the techs show up.


----------



## webin

Don't you just love the Verizon phone system? Even if I do find a convenient path through the subsections, I always seem to get transferred incorrectly as least once.

I've done some simple phone system routing programming, and I can't imagine how complicated their flowchart must be.


----------



## Jonathan_S

webin said:


> Don't you just love the Verizon phone system? Even if I do find a convenient path through the subsections, I always seem to get transferred incorrectly as least once.


I love the part where you call the same number four times in two days and it presents you with 2 or 3 different menu trees. You can't even memorize your way through.

Or the fact that it tries it's damndest to avoid connecting you to tech support after you've got a scheduled visit. (Um, guys, I'm trying to cancel the now-unnecessary tech visit.)


----------



## sender_name

i just hit random buttons until i get a person...and then i go from there...Somtimes i even try to get as far from the correct person as possible...call fios and make your way to the business cellular or something


----------



## rocko

I've found that if you say "agent" at any time during the call you are released from voice-prompt hell and connected to a live person. The bad news is that it's a crapshoot whether or not that talking head can actually help


----------



## Dana_B

Called Verizon to start getting some of the new channels offered. Like SpeedHD.

*If you do the same get an order number before you hang up.*

I had to call twice to get it installed as the order the first time was never entered into the system and one of the first questions I got in regards to the order was the order number. I did not have one. Placed the order again and got an order number and new channels in less then a minute showed up.

TiVo HD Fios cable cards
1gb internal upgrade


----------



## JacksTiVo

I recently posted my experience with stuttering audio & pixelation on another thread (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=407509). In my case it wasn't FiOS and the need for a low pass filter, but an issue with the My DVR Expander.

In any event in reading some recent posts, i thought I would provide what I hope are some helpful comments.
If your FiOS service has gone 100% digital, Verizon will give you two digital to analog converter boxes at no monthly charge. I initially was charged $3.99/mo per box.

When I converted to FiOS from NJ Cablevision cable service I was pleased with the quality of the HD video and saw some improvement as compared to Cablevision's HD.
My TV was a 53" Sony rear projection set purchased in June 2000. It was HD ready at the time so adding the S3 was not a problem.

After saving money in my "mad money" account (I save a few dollars each month to buy myself gadgets, toys and such without having to worry that my DW will complain about the expenditure), I finally had enough to purchase a new LCD HD TV.
Wow, the FiOS HD is absolutely unbelievable. I purchased a 52" Samsung series 6 unit that received high marks from Consumer Reports & CNET. The FiOS picture is so good and lifelike that it almost feels as if you are looking out of your window.

In other words, if you want to experience the full extent of the FiOS service, you should have a newer model HD TV, not one that is 8 years old.


----------



## dave843

I just had FIOS installed on Friday. It went fairly well. But the installer hadn't done a cablecard installation in a couple of years, and had never done a Tivo. So he didn't know what he was doing. But he was friendly, and willing to learn. He let me deal with the Tivo. He wrote down the numbers, and I ran the Tivo. After trying to activate the first card for a few minutes, he figured out that the cablecards were not on my account (so they would not activate). After adding them to my account, they activated.

But now the fun part -- I got two M-Cards. The installer mentioned that my cards were brand new when he picked them up. So it looks like Verizon is slowly moving to the M-Cards.


----------



## slocko

does that mean you only needed one card? why did he install 2?


----------



## dave843

slocko said:


> does that mean you only needed one card? why did he install 2?


According to the Series 3 and Tivo HD FAQ, the Tivo HD supports the dual-tuner capabilities of the M-card, but the Series 3 does not. This means that the Series 3 must have two cable cards to use both tuners (it doesn't matter if the cards themselves support it or not). Hopefully the Series 3 will support it at some point.



> Can I use one Mutli-Stream CableCARD, or M-Card?
> 
> Currently the TiVo HD supports M-Card, but the Series3 does not yet support it. While the Series3 Viewers Guide has the following on page 102: Note: A single multi-stream CableCARD decoder installed in the bottom slot on the back of the DVR enables dual tuner functionality., this is incorrect! I spoke with Bob Poniatowski (aka TiVoPony) of TiVo by phone on Thursday, September 21st, 2006 and he clarified that. He also later made a post at TiVoCommunity.com which contained the following:
> 
> There is currently no certification process for multi-stream cards (MCARD) in uni-directional devices such as the Series3. We are tracking the creation of the certification for this very closely and will work with CableLabs as this certification is finalized and becomes available. In the mean time, you will need two cable cards in your Series3 to enable dual tuner functionality (MCARDs in a uni-directional device act as SCARDs).
> 
> The Series3 should support M-Card via a software update in the future.


----------



## SeanC

There have been comments on this board from TivoPony that have made it sound unlikely that the S3 will ever be upgraded to support the M card's dual tuner capability.


----------



## aaronwt

Oh well. It's not worth it for me anyway. Just to have them come out to install M cards would cost a lot and only save me $2 on each tiVo.


----------



## JustAllie

I just had two family members contact me in the past week ranting about Verizon's crappy DVR that they insisted on installing with the Verizon FiOS TV service.

I'm now officially going to just cut and paste my recommendations for what equipment to ask for so that my friends and family members can use their TiVos with FiOS, and reassuring them that no matter what the Verizon tech says, FiOS _is_ compatible with TiVo, and they do _not_ "have" to get the Verizon DVR.


----------



## JStew

Has anyone recently had a Vz truck roll to install cards? I had it done about a year ago and it was $25.00 for the tech to come do the job. Recently, there have been grumblings that the cost is presently at $79.00. Can anyone confirm this?


----------



## Gregor

JustAllie said:


> I just had two family members contact me in the past week ranting about Verizon's crappy DVR that they insisted on installing with the Verizon FiOS TV service.
> 
> I'm now officially going to just cut and paste my recommendations for what equipment to ask for so that my friends and family members can use their TiVos with FiOS, and reassuring them that no matter what the Verizon tech says, FiOS _is_ compatible with TiVo, and they do _not_ "have" to get the Verizon DVR.


I think the current "deal" with FIOS is a free DVR for a year. My parents took it, and really like it, but they've never had a DVR. Unfortunately, I've never been able to convince them how great Tivo is.


----------



## sender_name

sender_name said:


> so using my tivo's card diagnostics i have Id a channel range that is corrupted...it is all channels from 135000khz to 153000khz. It is about 10 hd channels. I called tech support and they did a bunch of remote cable card reboots and are sending a tech out monday. I am pretty sure it is an issue on their end because in that range i get 1,000,000's of errors in 1/2 hour and 100,000 uncorrected errors that result in programming skips etc. I told them all of this and they are coming out to see...I will let you all know what happens


Just quoting myself here...

The pixelation was fixed by verizon at the office. The PON? card was swapped out and the specific fiber connected to it was cleaned (this is what the tech determined had to be done) and now i have no uncorrected errors in that range. Actually i have no errors...So i am now re-recording all the Stargate atlantis eps that were pixelated 

Ahh..I needed my USAhd and ScifiHD


JStew said:


> Has anyone recently had a Vz truck roll to install cards? I had it done about a year ago and it was $25.00 for the tech to come do the job. Recently, there have been grumblings that the cost is presently at $79.00. Can anyone confirm this?


when i had my install done (the guy brought the cards) the cost was 3x $6.99 (over 3 months) for the entire install...


----------



## V7Goose

JStew said:


> Has anyone recently had a Vz truck roll to install cards? I had it done about a year ago and it was $25.00 for the tech to come do the job. Recently, there have been grumblings that the cost is presently at $79.00. Can anyone confirm this?


Both time I had them come out to install cable cards (about 18 months ago, then again two months ago) there was no cost for the truck roll. The only thing on my bill is the additional cost per card per month.


----------



## JStew

V7Goose said:


> Both time I had them come out to install cable cards (about 18 months ago, then again two months ago) there was no cost for the truck roll. The only thing on my bill is the additional cost per card per month.


Thanks, sender and Goose. I think customer service gave out wrong information (again).


----------



## smcmanus

Verizon cable cards. I do not know if others have run into this. Verizon tech support advised me that I needed 2 single stream cards and that Tivo 3 will not handle the M series (multistream) card at this time, bu tthey are coming out with a different tivo next year that will. He stated that the M series cards are bigger than the S series and will not fit in the current series 3 box. The tech wanted to drop ship the cards to be, but Verizon billing insisted they could only be installed by a service tech and the charge for the service call is $79. I live in the Philadelphia area, so I do not know if this is the same everwhere. The cards are being installed tomorrow, so we'll see how it all works.


----------



## Jonathan_S

smcmanus said:


> Verizon tech support advised me that I needed 2 single stream cards and that Tivo 3 will not handle the M series (multistream) card at this time


Sort of correct for the original series 3, not true for the TiVo HD and TiVo HD XL.


smcmanus said:


> but they are coming out with a different tivo next year that will.


There are already two TiVos out that fully support M-cards.


smcmanus said:


> He stated that the M series cards are bigger than the S series and will not fit in the current series 3 box.


Nonsense. The cards are the same size. 
Heck, even the original series 3 will _work_ with M-cards; it just can't use more that 1 stream from one. (So you need two M-cards for dual tuner support).


----------



## debtoine

We just jumped ship from cable to Fios. Our install is next Friday, and I can't wait. 

No more worrying about tuning adapters for us.

deb


----------



## sender_name

Dammit...I just had Fios extreme HD activated and I turned FX HD and it is garbage with uncorrected errors...Time to call Vz and have them clean another PON card and fiber...It only took 2 months for them to track down the error on the 135,000 range now this one is in the 335,000 i think...


----------



## richsadams

smcmanus said:


> Verizon cable cards. <snip>


Welcome to the forum! Per Jonathan's note, the VZ rep obviously knew little about the subject matter. "M" cards are bigger than "S" cards?! 

In any case as long as the tech they send out isn't the same guy you should be fine. Give him the TiVo HD cable card installation sheet or the Series3 installation sheet (not sure which you have) that came with your TiVo, make sure he follows it (in particular make sure he/she installs and pairs cable card 1 first and then 2...trying to activate them both at the same time is the most common mistake) and everything should be fine.

With regard to the $79 truck roll charge, IIRC others here have pushed back, cajoled and/or threatened VZ and had the charge reduced or waived. YMMV.

Feel free to report back! :up:


----------



## webin

<removed my snarky reply to a spammer>


----------



## richsadams

webin said:


> <removed my snarky reply to a spammer>


Oh come on...where's the fun in that?


----------



## eddietr

Well, I'm about to give up after 6 months of S3 + FIOS.

All was fine for about 4 months with 2 M cards. But for the past two months one of the two cards will stop working every couple of days. Then I restart the TiVo or call and have the card "pinged" and that card will work again.

And then invariably a day or two later the other one will stop. So effectively I'm restarting our TiVo 3 times a week and more importantly I'm losing a lot of shows.

So Verizon replaced both M cards. Then we replaced the TiVo. And still the same behavior.

Which is strange considering all was well was for 4 months. Very frustrating.

So I guess the plan now is to go with our antenna and iTunes for a while. No sense in paying for service when half our cable shows don't tape anyway.


----------



## moneytrain8

I had Fios installed on Tuesday. I have two TiVo HD boxes. It was beautiful.

When Comcast came out 18 months ago, it literally took 6 visits to get my cable cards working correctly. Each one was hours long, with some 47 IQ contractor on the phone with a 48 IQ dispatcher who couldn't seem to get Comcast's Enigma-esque codes in place to give me the channels I paid for. Each time met with some new act of idiocy and miscommunication. It still didn't fully work even after that, I was missing channels - luckily they were the crappy ones I didn't care about and not the HD ones.

ANYWAY... Verizon came out at 9 a.m... I had phone, Internet and Extreme HD in under 3 hours. He had the cable cards activated in minutes, which was made super easy by a thumb drive that allowed him to activate via my computer. I have all my channels, the TiVo works beautifully. I have tons of HD channels with dozens more to come in the net 60 days.

Comcast... are you listening? Get rid of the dolt subcontractors and use Comcast employees (the Comcast cable cards only worked after a visit form a real Comcast employee).

I'm sure people have horror stories about Verizon. I had a great tech who knew what he was doing... but I have heard plenty of good Verizon stories, which I nearly NEVER hear about Comcast installs.


----------



## richsadams

Verizon installed all of the fiber optics, etc. in our neighborhood back in June and I've been waiting for them to let me know when FIOS was available but I hadn't heard from them (expecting a flyer, letter or something). This morning I was out walking the dog on the next street over when I spied a VZ truck with a repairman pulling some equipment out of the back. I stopped and asked him if/when FIOS would be available at my house? He said he was installing it for my neighbor and that it might be available for our house already. I asked him if he had any dealings with TiVo's and he told me that he had and that they had one particular frequency that was "too hot" and required attenuation. He also said that they had just started receiving "M" cable cards and that seemed to cure the problem. He started to explain attenuation, cable cards and such and I told him that I'd been following this forum and what I had learned (thanks to the brilliant contributors here :up: ). He looked a little stunned, smiled and said that I seemed to know as much as he did and that he should hand me the equipment and let me do the install myself. Well, I don't know _that_ much I told him.

He took my address and phone and said he'd check on availability on his laptop when he was done with his current installation. He called back in about two hours and said that he had confirmation that our house was ready.  But then... After reading so many pro's and con's here I'm still on the fence. Right now I have Comcast and it's okay, but I would really love to have all of the uncompressed HD channels as well as the huge broadband pipe.

It's decision time I guess. I suppose I can wait, but I'm not sure why other than I'd hope that things will get better with regard to attenuation. If they have "M" cards now that might be the key. Hmmmm...what to do.


----------



## moneytrain8

Rich... They put M cards in my two TiVos this week, although you and I are in _slightly_ different areas.


----------



## richsadams

moneytrain8 said:


> Rich... They put M cards in my two TiVos this week, although you and I are in _slightly_ different areas.


And it sounds like everything is as it should be. :up: No attenuation, no problems?


----------



## JacksTiVo

richsadams said:


> Verizon installed all of the fiber optics, etc. in our neighborhood back in June and I've been waiting for them to let me know when FIOS was available but I hadn't heard from them (expecting a flyer, letter or something). This morning I was out walking the dog on the next street over when I spied a VZ truck with a repairman pulling some equipment out of the back. I stopped and asked him if/when FIOS would be available at my house? He said he was installing it for my neighbor and that it might be available for our house already.
> He took my address and phone and said he'd check on availability on his laptop when he was done with his current installation. He called back in about two hours and said that he had confirmation that our house was ready.  But then... After reading so many pro's and con's here I'm still on the fence. Right now I have Comcast and it's okay, but I would really love to have all of the uncompressed HD channels as well as the huge broadband pipe.
> 
> It's decision time I guess. I suppose I can wait, but I'm not sure why other than I'd hope that things will get better with regard to attenuation. If they have "M" cards now that might be the key. Hmmmm...what to do.


Rich,
Visit the Verizon FiOS Web site and enter your zipcode. The site will advise if it is available to your home. They did not send any flyers or sales reps into my neighborhood. After they install the optical terminal boxes (if you have underground service the terminals boxes are in the larger boxes) they are good to go since they test each fiber back to the central office as they "wire" each terminal.

Their system is all prefab. After installing the ONT in your home, they plug the prefab optical cable into it and then run the optical cable from your service box through the conduits to the nearest terminal box, where they plug in the other prefab end of the optical cable.

I have had no attenuation issues with the ONT712. The FiOS service is superior to standard cable and with my new Samsung LCD TV the picture is so sharp that sometimes it appears you are looking out of a window.

I had cable service with the same company for 26 years, so it was hard to depart since I was comfortable with them. But when the SDV became an issue I was able to make up my mind rather quickly to change to FiOS.


----------



## richsadams

JacksTiVo said:


> Rich,
> Visit the Verizon FiOS Web site and enter your zipcode. The site will advise if it is available to your home. They did not send any flyers or sales reps into my neighborhood. <snip>


Thanks for the info and positive feedback Jack. I did indeed check on line a while back and it said FIOS was available at my house. I just hadn't done anything about it because of my TiVo questions/concerns and was glad I was able to ask the VZ installer about it.

When they installed the lines in my brother-in-law's neighborhood they sent him a big promo package in the mail. I was kind of waiting for that as well to see if they had any "deals". (According to the VZ web site I can apparently get their DVR free for one year...oh boy!  )

In any case, thanks again. Hearing about your and other's positive experiences plus knowing that they're using "M" cards now is a plus. I think I'll pull the trigger as soon as I can find time to stay home for a day and ensure they get everything right.


----------



## markp750

Hi all.
Just read a Tivo message about new HD channels added. They are now in my lineup but I receive nothing. Just gray. I have a series 3 with two cards.
Will these new channels appear in a few days or does some tech have to update my cards?

Thanks in advance.

Mark P.


----------



## wmcbrine

markp750 said:


> Just read a Tivo message about new HD channels added. They are now in my lineup but I receive nothing.


You have to call Verizon to switch to the "Extreme HD" package.


----------



## markp750

wmcbrine said:


> You have to call Verizon to switch to the "Extreme HD" package.


And how much extra per month is that??

Mark P.


----------



## wmcbrine

Read the thread I linked to.


----------



## moneytrain8

Rich... Yup, no issues so far with the M cards. Looks as good as it did with Comcast. No sure HD can look that much "better" anyway.  Good luck with whatever you decide.

Extreme HD/Phone/Internet is $99 a month (plus taxes/fees) here in Baltimore. When you are on the phone, tell them you want to the $10 a month discount you'd get from ordering online. They'll give it to you with little/no pushing. Otherwise it's $109/month. Still cheaper than the $160 I gave Comcast each month for the same thing.


----------



## Gregor

moneytrain8 said:


> Rich... Yup, no issues so far with the M cards. Looks as good as it did with Comcast. No sure HD can look that much "better" anyway.  Good luck with whatever you decide.
> 
> Extreme HD/Phone/Internet is $99 a month (plus taxes/fees) here in Baltimore. When you are on the phone, tell them you want to the $10 a month discount you'd get from ordering online. They'll give it to you with little/no pushing. Otherwise it's $109/month. Still cheaper than the $160 I gave Comcast each month for the same thing.


Actually, the HD looks better that Comcast (imho). Remember that Verizon does not re-compress HD channels, while Comcast does. I noticed an immediate difference in PQ when I changed.


----------



## richsadams

moneytrain8 said:


> Rich... Yup, no issues so far with the M cards. Looks as good as it did with Comcast. No sure HD can look that much "better" anyway.  Good luck with whatever you decide.
> 
> Extreme HD/Phone/Internet is $99 a month (plus taxes/fees) here in Baltimore. When you are on the phone, tell them you want to the $10 a month discount you'd get from ordering online. They'll give it to you with little/no pushing. Otherwise it's $109/month. Still cheaper than the $160 I gave Comcast each month for the same thing.


Thanks for the support...and the tip! When I looked everything up on line and ordered it, (but didn't complete the order) the same services came out to $109.  Wonder if it's $10 higher out here? Our Comcast bill is about $160 as well, so whatever it ends up being will be a huge savings! Thanks again. :up:



Gregor said:


> Actually, the HD looks better that Comcast (imho). Remember that Verizon does not re-compress HD channels, while Comcast does. I noticed an immediate difference in PQ when I changed.


A number of other folks here said the same thing. That's what I'm looking forward to!!


----------



## aaronwt

I have fourteen months on two of my cable cards and around eleven months on six cable cards with FIOS. They have been working fine. Although I have the single stream cards.



eddietr said:


> Well, I'm about to give up after 6 months of S3 + FIOS.
> 
> All was fine for about 4 months with 2 M cards. But for the past two months one of the two cards will stop working every couple of days. Then I restart the TiVo or call and have the card "pinged" and that card will work again.
> 
> And then invariably a day or two later the other one will stop. So effectively I'm restarting our TiVo 3 times a week and more importantly I'm losing a lot of shows.
> 
> So Verizon replaced both M cards. Then we replaced the TiVo. And still the same behavior.
> 
> Which is strange considering all was well was for 4 months. Very frustrating.
> 
> So I guess the plan now is to go with our antenna and iTunes for a while. No sense in paying for service when half our cable shows don't tape anyway.


----------



## David Platt

richsadams said:


> Thanks for the support...and the tip! When I looked everything up on line and ordered it, (but didn't complete the order) the same services came out to $109.  Wonder if it's $10 higher out here? Our Comcast bill is about $160 as well, so whatever it ends up being will be a huge savings! Thanks again. :up:


Just to give you a bit of comparison since I'm in your area, I have the 20/5 internet, TV with HBO, and phone and I pay right around $160/month.


----------



## richsadams

David Platt said:


> Just to give you a bit of comparison since I'm in your area, I have the 20/5 internet, TV with HBO, and phone and I pay right around $160/month.


Thanks David...sounds good, especially the speedy/unlimited broadband connection. As someone else mentioned, if we start downloading movies from Netflix that will cause us to hit Comcast's bandwidth cap pretty quickly (particularly if/when they offer HD downloads). It'll be a great not to have to worry about that with VZ.

Thanks again! :up:


----------



## Gregor

richsadams said:


> Thanks for the support...and the tip! When I looked everything up on line and ordered it, (but didn't complete the order) the same services came out to $109.  Wonder if it's $10 higher out here? Our Comcast bill is about $160 as well, so whatever it ends up being will be a huge savings! Thanks again. :up:
> 
> A number of other folks here said the same thing. That's what I'm looking forward to!!


One thing that's not in the $109 price is all the taxes, franchise fees, etc, so that will affect your savings.


----------



## sender_name

i see people posting that they have multiple M cards in the same tivo...I thought the s3 only needed 1 M card or 2 S cards...if you have an M card and only need 1 that would save you $4 a month on renting 2 cards


----------



## rocko

sender_name said:


> i see people posting that they have multiple M cards in the same tivo...I thought the s3 only needed 1 M card or 2 S cards...if you have an M card and only need 1 that would save you $4 a month on renting 2 cards


The S3 requires 2 cards regardless of S or M. The TiVo HD and HDXL can operate with a single M card or 2 S cards.


----------



## Distortedloop

rocko said:


> The S3 requires 2 cards regardless of S or M. The TiVo HD and HDXL can operate with a single M card or 2 S cards.


Are you sure about that...?


----------



## sender_name

yeah, i thought the S3 was multi card compatible


----------



## philhu

Distortedloop said:


> Are you sure about that...?


Yes, the S3 has a 'bug' that requires 2 cards for 2 tuners

The HD can use 1 M-card


----------



## tdel73

Verizon is coming tomorrow to install FIOS...crossing fingers that all goes well!!

EDIT: the install went very smoothly yesterday, he got the Tivo up and running in no time, so far so good! Thank god I'm done with Cablevision!!


----------



## markp750

Darn, I was hoping to watch the Shuttle launch tonight and I can't find it on FIOS. I guess they don't carry it. Jeeze.

Mark P.


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## markp750

NASA TV that is.

Mark P.


----------



## webin

The shuttle launch is being broadcast in HD on HDNet, channel 569. Coverage starts at 4:30 pst (7:30est) and runs 35 minutes.


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## markp750

Thank you. Fantastic.

Mark P.


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## markp750

Thank you. Fantastic. I'll be there.

Mark P.


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## wmcbrine

You want NASA TV, see HME/VLC (in my sig). But yeah, for shuttle launches I'd recommend HDNet.


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## tdel73

can you watch shows on demand with fios and Tivo?


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## wmcbrine

TiVo doesn't support Fios' VOD, but they have their own (more or less), via TiVoCasts and Amazon Unbox (now just called Amazon VOD, I think). Plus Netflix soon!


----------



## tdel73

wmcbrine said:


> TiVo doesn't support Fios' VOD, but they have their own (more or less), via TiVoCasts and Amazon Unbox (now just called Amazon VOD, I think). Plus Netflix soon!


cool thanks for the heads up!


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## scotthoffman1977

I have two Series 2 TiVo's (one 40-hour and the other 80-hour w/dual tuner) and was scheduled for a Verizon Fios install this morning. I don't currently have HD nor did I order it. The salesman that I dealt with assured me both my TiVo's would work and that he was ordering "cable cards" for both of them.

The technician that came out to install this morning said there's nowhere on either Series 2 to insert the cable card. 

A) Is this true, and B) is there an alternative to ditching the TiVo's? Any help would be appreciated!!!


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## Jasper

Only the Series 3 Tivo's have cable card slots. You would need to use Verizon's set top box w/ your Series 2 Tivo's just like you did w/ cable.


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## scotthoffman1977

Jasper said:


> Only the Series 3 Tivo's have cable card slots. You would need to use Verizon's set top box w/ your Series 2 Tivo's just like you did w/ cable.


Thanks for the input. The problem for me was the IR cables didn't work well and (just like Comcast) Verizon doesn't support TiVo's box controlling theirs.

Man...it looks like I'm going to have to shelve my TiVo's for their multi-room viewing DVR system.


----------



## Jasper

I would seriously consider upgrading to the Series 3 Tivo. It ends up being more expensive in the beginning but over time you would re-coup your money plus be ready to upgrade to HD. From what I have heard the FIOS DVR's suck and don't have nearly the recording capacity that you can get w/ a Tivo.

Check out this thread reference using an HDTivo for non-HD tv:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=410653


----------



## Ziggy86

Jasper said:


> I would seriously consider upgrading to the Series 3 Tivo. It ends up being more expensive in the beginning but over time you would re-coup your money plus be ready to upgrade to HD. From what I have heard the FIOS DVR's suck and don't have nearly the recording capacity that you can get w/ a Tivo.
> 
> Check out this thread reference using an HDTivo for non-HD tv:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=410653


I thought they were doing away with series 3, I would go for TivoHD unit and it is cheaper than S3 I believe.


----------



## webin

scotthoffman1977 said:


> The problem for me was the IR cables didn't work well


Really? I used the Verizon set top box to control my Series 2 for several months (before upgrading to TivoHD and an HDTV), and never had any issues whatsoever. I tested it with both IR Blasters and a serial connection, and neither gave any trouble. Do NOT shelve tivo because of a minor issue like this. You can make them work.


----------



## scotthoffman1977

webin said:


> Really? I used the Verizon set top box to control my Series 2 for several months (before upgrading to TivoHD and an HDTV), and never had any issues whatsoever. I tested it with both IR Blasters and a serial connection, and neither gave any trouble. Do NOT shelve tivo because of a minor issue like this. You can make them work.


I didn't test the IR leads on the Verizon STB, but with Comcast's box they "misfired" about 50% of the time. Neither Comcast's nor Verizon's box allow themselves to be controlled via serial connection.


----------



## webin

Don't confuse the set top box with the digital adapter. The digital adapter (DCT-700) is a small sleek thing with no LED numbers on the front. I never used one from Verizon, but had one with Comcast with no IR Blaster trouble. These don't have a means for serial control.

The set top box (http://www22.verizon.com/residential/fiostv/EquipmentDetails/EquipmentDetails.htm?Media=3) is much more robust, and is serial controllable (but even then, I opted for IR Blasters).


----------



## wmcbrine

I have no problem controlling the DCT-700 with my TiVo 540, although it is a little slow. And I recommend not doing anything else with the remote until the channel is actually changed.

Don't just assume that bad performance with Comcast's box will translate to Verizon's.


----------



## rocko

My 2 S2s control the SD Verizon STBs (Moto QIP-2500 I believe) just fine. IR blasters work fine. Serial control is fine unless you try to tune to a 4 digit channel - that is above chanel 999. FWIW, lots of other folks have reported no problem controlling the low-end DCT700 as well.

I also seem to remember one of my S2s controlled the HD STB fine - for the short period I had one.

Be patient when running Guided Setup and you'll be OK with Verizon STBs and your S2.


----------



## rcji

Can anyone confirm if the M Cards are available in the New York area? I called Verizon about it and they either told me they don't know anything about it or they just heard about it and don't know when it will be available.


----------



## wkearney99

FWIW, verizon came out and put an M-card into my new TivoHD. I inquired as to whether he had any others on him. He did, and we replaced the two S-cards with one M-card in my other TivoHD. Now to go wrestle with billing for them.

Oh, and when I asked to switch from Moca internet (coax) to ethernet they've totally bungled it. Now I've got neither coax nor ethernet. Three different calls now and the finger-pointing between departments goes on. FIOS, great technology operated by an utterly incompetent bureaucracy.


----------



## wkearney99

rocko said:


> My 2 S2s control the SD Verizon STBs (Moto QIP-2500 I believe) just fine. IR blasters work fine. Serial control is fine unless you try to tune to a 4 digit channel - that is above chanel 999.


I had absolutely nothing by trouble with my S2 and a QIP-2500. Serial just wouldn't work at all (it did, for about 2 days). IR was unreliable. That and the box would just HANG all the time. No thanks. I switched to a TivoHD with an M-card and it's working great. Even better, the TivoHD downconverts the HD stations to display on the old CRT TV I'm using for it.


----------



## nugga22

I've been looking at getting a lifetime subscription for a while now, but never had a decent opportunity. My parents want a TiVoHD and TiVoHD is offering a decent package which includes a lifetime subscription. Could I just swap my TiVoHD with the new box which has the lifetime subscription without having Verizon come out to reinstall the cable cards? I'd just give my parents my old TiVoHD with a gift card for service while keeping the new box with the lifetime plan. If switching the boxes will be too much of a hassle, I guess I'll just keep looking for other options. Thanks for any advice!


----------



## wkearney99

I swapped the cablecards from one TivoHD with a new one and they both worked fine. This was to test that the wiring was setup properly before the FIOS tech came out to deliver some new cards for it. This was also within the same house, not moved from anywhere else. 

I believe the system is "supposed to" be tied to the cards AND the box, but mine worked fine. YMMV, of course but it can't hurt to try it first. Even if it does fail you should be able to call them to make the change. Near as I can tell, a truck roll is only "required" because of high failure rates with the cards (or the slots in the units). Once you have a working card and slot for it the rest can be handled over the phone. I know, I did this once when for some reason mine got confused. They deleted the existing config and reprogrammed it based on my reciting the various numbers to them over the phone. Worked fine


----------



## tdel73

now that FIOS is carrying the MLB extra innings package, will you be able to get that with Tivo? I know with Cablevision you couldn't because of the cable cards...


----------



## Scyber

wkearney99 said:


> I swapped the cablecards from one TivoHD with a new one and they both worked fine. This was to test that the wiring was setup properly before the FIOS tech came out to deliver some new cards for it. This was also within the same house, not moved from anywhere else.
> 
> I believe the system is "supposed to" be tied to the cards AND the box, but mine worked fine. YMMV, of course but it can't hurt to try it first. Even if it does fail you should be able to call them to make the change. Near as I can tell, a truck roll is only "required" because of high failure rates with the cards (or the slots in the units). Once you have a working card and slot for it the rest can be handled over the phone. I know, I did this once when for some reason mine got confused. They deleted the existing config and reprogrammed it based on my reciting the various numbers to them over the phone. Worked fine


Verizon does not pair the cards with the device. Once your card is authorized, you should be able to swap it out and place it in any device. I know I have a swap my cards around quite a few times since I have gotten them.


----------



## acroswel

I recently switched from DirecTV (with DirecTivos) to FIOS and after trying out their DVR, I'm going back to Tivo. Ordered TivoHDs and just called Verizon to order the cable cards. Based on information here I assumed I was going to have to pay for a truck roll, but without any prompting the CSR said she was UPSing them to me and I'd get them in 3-5 days...


----------



## wmcbrine

They frequently say that, but it turns out not to be true. It's a bug in their system -- it looks to them like they can mail you cards, but the order gets blocked somewhere further down the line. And apparently it is actually Verizon's policy not to mail cards.

You may still be able to get them delivered without being charged for it, though.


----------



## acroswel

Update to my last post. It's just as wmcbrine thought. Someone from Verizon actually showed up at my house only about 30-40 minutes after I called to order the cards. Fortunately my wife was at home, but my new Tivos (ordered yesterday) weren't yet... I NEVER would have guessed someone would be sent so fast. I'll have to call and schedule something once the Tivos arrive.


----------



## webin

acroswel said:


> about 30-40 minutes after I called


WOW! I wish the billing department worked that fast.... I'm at 6 months and counting to get the bundle price I ordered.


----------



## MapleLeaf

I'm looking to move to FiOS for both my internet and TV (from Verizon DSL and Comcast, respectively), and have been trying to educate myself on what exactly the move to FiOS will entail. I've been doing some MSN Live'ing (that doesn't roll off the tongue quite as nicely as "googling", does it? ) to educate myself a bit, but I'm a newbie at this, so please forgive me if I've gotten some of the terminology or concepts wrong.

First off, I want to use my own router and forego the Actiontec router that Verizon provides. So my understanding is that I will need to request that Verizon reconfigures the ONT to pass data through the ethernet interface instead of the MoCA (coax) interface, which is apparently the default. Once I've done that, I can set aside the Actiontec router and hook up the ONT's ethernet interface to the WAN port of pretty much any modern router I choose and, at least for internet connectivity, it should "just work". Is that correct? And if all I wanted was internet and didn't care to have TV, I would be done, right?

So now let's throw TV into the mix. For TV, I would normally require both a video signal as well as a data signal. The latter would be for features such as guide data, on-demand, and PPV, which would all be encapsulated in an STB. However, I don't plan on getting any Verizon STB's and instead will be feeding all TV signals to either an S3 or a THD. Given that, do I have to worry about supplying a data signal? I would think I would just be able to connect the ONT's MoCA interface to a coax splitter and from there, feed individual coax lines to my various S3 and THD units throughout the house.

If for some reason I really wanted/needed to provide a data signal, then since I've re-routed the data signal from the ONT's MoCA interface to its ethernet interface, that's when things would get complicated. At that point, I'd have to re-introduce the Actiontec router back into the mix (by placing it behind my primary router). However, I'm hoping I can avoid having to do that.

So in summary, what I want to do is provide FiOS internet and TV to my house, with the caveats that I want to provide my own router and I don't believe that I require data for TV. Given that, I believe the key is simply to ensure that Verizon re-configures the ONT to pass data through its ethernet interface instead of its MoCA interface. After that, I simply connect my own router to the ONT's ethernet interface and I connect my S3's/THD's to the ONT's MoCA interface. Does that sound right? Is it really that simple?

Oh, and a few other points. First, I understand I'll have to swap out the Comcast-provided cable cards in my S3's/THD's with Verizon-provided ones (hopefully with multi-stream cards for the THD's). Should I expect any complications with performing such a swap-out? Second, do I have any choice over where Verizon will install the ONT (and accompanying BBU)? Ideally, I'd like it installed in the house close to my structured wiring centre, but much of what I've read seems to indicate that it needs to be installed outside of the house so that Verizon techs can gain access to it whenever they want.

Thanks!


----------



## wkearney99

If you're not using any FIOS TV set top boxes then you do not need the Actiontec router. If you use any Verizon TV boxes then you will need to provide a Moca network connection for them. You could do this by setting up the Actiontec as a bridge and still use your own router. My advice, get the Actiontec but have it set up using CAT5 ethernet and not coax Moca. Then when the techs leave, put your own router on their instead and save the Actiontec for whenever you actually need Moca (perhaps never).

There is such a thing as a CAT5 to Moca converter. The Motorola NIM-100 does it. And they used to supply them before using the Actiontec.

As for switching from Moca to ethernet, it's done over the phone. The Moca light goes out and the ethernet one lights up. Just had mine changed 2 weeks ago. My actiontec has been boxed up and a Linksys WRT54G running DD-WRT took its place.

They generally put the ONT next to wherever your current phone box is located outside. They then run wire into the house to the battery backup box. I don't think you can get the ONT installed inside a residence. They can run the CAT5 from the ONT into your structured wiring center. I ran my own CAT6 wire from my rack out to the ONT, mainly to save time on the install (and keep some phone tech from mucking about with my rack).


----------



## Dmon4u

Actually, they have been installing the ONT's inside (basements typically) for years now. I have mine and 3 neighbors have theirs that way !


----------



## winter

MapleLeaf said:


> First off, I want to use my own router and forego the Actiontec router that Verizon provides. So my understanding is that I will need to request that Verizon reconfigures the ONT to pass data through the ethernet interface instead of the MoCA (coax) interface, which is apparently the default. Once I've done that, I can set aside the Actiontec router and hook up the ONT's ethernet interface to the WAN port of pretty much any modern router I choose and, at least for internet connectivity, it should "just work". Is that correct? And if all I wanted was internet and didn't care to have TV, I would be done, right?


Yes, exactly. The ONT hand-off is an RJ45 ethernet jack using DHCP. Any router that can act as a DHCP client will work (and that's almost any router I can think of).



MapleLeaf said:


> So now let's throw TV into the mix. For TV, I would normally require both a video signal as well as a data signal. The latter would be for features such as guide data, on-demand, and PPV, which would all be encapsulated in an STB. However, I don't plan on getting any Verizon STB's and instead will be feeding all TV signals to either an S3 or a THD. Given that, do I have to worry about supplying a data signal? I would think I would just be able to connect the ONT's MoCA interface to a coax splitter and from there, feed individual coax lines to my various S3 and THD units throughout the house.


Again exactly correct.



MapleLeaf said:


> So in summary, what I want to do is provide FiOS internet and TV to my house, with the caveats that I want to provide my own router and I don't believe that I require data for TV. Given that, I believe the key is simply to ensure that Verizon re-configures the ONT to pass data through its ethernet interface instead of its MoCA interface. After that, I simply connect my own router to the ONT's ethernet interface and I connect my S3's/THD's to the ONT's MoCA interface. Does that sound right? Is it really that simple?


Yep, its that simple...that's how I am running: Cisco ASA as my border device (connected to ONT), using Tivo HD (no VZ STB's)



MapleLeaf said:


> Second, do I have any choice over where Verizon will install the ONT (and accompanying BBU)? Ideally, I'd like it installed in the house close to my structured wiring centre, but much of what I've read seems to indicate that it needs to be installed outside of the house so that Verizon techs can gain access to it whenever they want.


I've read that if you have pre-drilled the required (large) hole from the outside to the inside for the fiber cable/connector, that its a much easier sell to get the VZ installer to put it inside. Some people have had no problem getting installed inside, in other cases they have protested they won't have access unless someone is home; seems to be a YMMV. If you have everything ready, including space for them to install their stuff inside I would imagine it will be smooth sailing.

In terms of switching from MoCA to ethernet - its best to just let the installer hook it up with MoCA and the Actiontec router and then once everything is tested/working make the switch yourself (after they have left). Keep in mind that if you ever have problems you may have to put the Actiontec back for VZ for troubleshooting purposes.


----------



## aaronwt

You can also just use the FIOS ActionTec or new Westell modem they are using. And then just connect you own router to one of the ports on the FIOS router and set up a DMZ on that port. That way if there are any problems you don't have to mess around with reconnecting the FIOS supplied router since FIOS typically will not trouble shoot anything when their router is not connected.
This is how I have my FIOS connection setup with my DLINK DGL4500 router and previously with my DGL4300 router. I have had no problems doing it this way. And on the couple of occasions when there was a problem with the ONT. They were able to trouble shoot it right away since I had my ActionTec already connected to the ONT.
I've had it connected this way for over a year now.For the first few months of service I had my own router connected to the ONT and there were a few times that there were problems. But they would not look at anything until I connected the Actiontec directly to the ONT which was a pain to do. So since then I just leave the Actiontec connected to the ONT with my router on a DMZ. This setup has worked perfectly. And I download around 1TB every month. No problems and no need to ever reboot any of the routers.


----------



## pghkirwan

I just made the switch from Comcast to FIOS. The install went well, even tho it was the tech's first adventure with a Tivo setup.

my question: is it possible to split the signal from a FIOS STB into a Tivo HD and the TV and get the same functionality I had with the Comcast setup? (there were no boxes or cablecards on this unit) 

Or, should I exchange the STB for a cablecard? Hopefully an Multistream card.

Our S3 does have 2 cable cards - we had been transferring HD shows between the THD and the S3 - we can still do that. I'm trying to get rid of a remote or three. 

Thanks,

Don


----------



## wkearney99

pghkirwan said:


> my question: is it possible to split the signal from a FIOS STB into a Tivo HD and the TV and get the same functionality I had with the Comcast setup? (there were no boxes or cablecards on this unit)


No, the S3 units will only record from an RF signal (NTSC or ATSC). No set top box outputs ATSC and the old channel 3 RF would look terrible. But why would you want to still bother using a FIOS STB? With cablecards you've no need for an STB at all (excepting video on demand).


----------



## Jonathan_S

pghkirwan said:


> my question: is it possible to split the signal from a FIOS STB into a Tivo HD and the TV and get the same functionality I had with the Comcast setup? (there were no boxes or cablecards on this unit)


You can't put a FIOS STB in front of the TiVo, like wkearney99 said, the TiVoHD needs the RF signal not the output of another STB.

If you do want to use a FIOS STB in addition to your TiVo, presumably for PPV or On Demand programmming here how you could do that. Split the FIOS coax between the wall and the TiVoHD. Then run the output of the splitter to both the TiVoHD and to a FIOS STB. Then hook each box up to different inputs on your TV.

When you want to use the FIOS STB or TiVoHD you'd switch to the appropriate input on the TV.

(This setup doesn't bother the TiVoHD. It still has an unaltered RF feed from FIOS and can record scheduled items no matter what you're doing with the FIOS STB)


----------



## wkearney99

Jonathan's right on the mark with that advice. 

Bear in mind, the series 3 Tivos (S3 and TivoHD) will not record from anything other than an RF signal. They will not record from composite, component, svideo or HDMI. They can record manually from an RF channel. If you can convert a signal to RF then you could set up a manual recording on from that on an S3. But unless you've got really deep pockets there aren't any inexpensive ATSC modulators so you're stuck with old-school NTSC RF (aka channel 3). 

Personally I'd really like to see an ATSC modulator at a sub-$100 price point. Nothing like that on the market yet.


----------



## SirWells

Quick question. I'm about to switch to Fios from Time Warner Cable in NYC. As far as the internet is concerned, can I just use their router, turn off the wireless and use my own wireless N router by plugging it into one of the ports on the Verizon router? I keep reading conflicting reports about running a dedicated Cat 5 line and such. There is cable wiring within my walls so if I can use my existing cable without having visible wires around my house, I'd be much happier.

Secondly, since I have cablecards from Time Warner Cable in my two Tivo Series 3's right now, is there anything I should do to get the Tivo's ready for Verizon? Will I lose whatever shows I already have saved? Just wondering if I need to watch everything in the next week or copy it over to my Mac.


----------



## Timber

SirWells said:


> Quick question. I'm about to switch to Fios from Time Warner Cable in NYC. As far as the internet is concerned, can I just use their router, turn off the wireless and use my own wireless N router by plugging it into one of the ports on the Verizon router? I keep reading conflicting reports about running a dedicated Cat 5 line and such. There is cable wiring within my walls so if I can use my existing cable without having visible wires around my house, I'd be much happier.
> 
> Secondly, since I have cablecards from Time Warner Cable in my two Tivo Series 3's right now, is there anything I should do to get the Tivo's ready for Verizon? Will I lose whatever shows I already have saved? Just wondering if I need to watch everything in the next week or copy it over to my Mac.


I've got this change coming up too. Can I add that I'd like to know if I just rerun Guided Setup and the existing Season Passes will automagically map over to FIOS?

Thanks! 

-=Tim=-


----------



## jay_man2

Timber said:


> I've got this change coming up too. Can I add that I'd like to know if I just rerun Guided Setup and the existing Season Passes will automagically map over to FIOS?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -=Tim=-


I'm moving from Comcast to Fios on Wednesday, and have the same questions as Timber and SirWells. 

I've already backed up all the shows on my S3 to my Mac just in case.


----------



## Jasper

You should not loose your shows. You will have to re-run guided setup with the new cards, but that will not affect previously recorded material. 

The season passes should map over to fios, just give it a few hours....


----------



## wmcbrine

No, you will not lose anything. Yes, the TiVo will attempt to remap your season passes to the new channels. (But check them manually, because they could end up moved from HD to SD, for one thing.)


----------



## Jasper

Sir Wells

As far as the wireless internet stuff goes, I don't know, but I would suggest you check out dslreports forum, they are very knowledgeable about that type stuff there.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/vzfiber


----------



## DeWitt

SirWells said:


> Quick question. I'm about to switch to Fios from Time Warner Cable in NYC. As far as the internet is concerned, can I just use their router, turn off the wireless and use my own wireless N router by plugging it into one of the ports on the Verizon router? I keep reading conflicting reports about running a dedicated Cat 5 line and such. There is cable wiring within my walls so if I can use my existing cable without having visible wires around my house, I'd be much happier.


This is exactly how I have mine set up and it works great.


----------



## wkearney99

SirWells said:


> Quick question. I'm about to switch to Fios from Time Warner Cable in NYC. As far as the internet is concerned, can I just use their router, turn off the wireless and use my own wireless N router by plugging it into one of the ports on the Verizon router? I keep reading conflicting reports about running a dedicated Cat 5 line and such. There is cable wiring within my walls so if I can use my existing cable without having visible wires around my house, I'd be much happier.


The simplest solution would be to just use their router for both. But you can use yours and disable just wifi on the verizon unit. However, you will probably need to reconfigure your router so that it behaves as an 'access point' instead of a full router. This way you won't have one router behind the other, which raises hassles for some things. Make sure your router can be configured as an access point (most can, but some cannot). What make/model is it?

You can run a line from the fiber ONT to the verizon router using EITHER coax or CAT5. If you're using Verizon set top boxes, AT ALL, you'll need to have coax to the Verizon router.

There are ways to avoid using the verizon router entirely but that's well beyond the scope of a Tivo forum. The suggestion to read dslreports.com is a good one, as they cover doing just that, and more.

You may or may not need to replace the in-house wiring depending on what was used and what condition it's in. If it's marginal (or unknown) then the FIOS setup includes wiring install, have them put new stuff in place of (or alongside) what's there now.


----------



## jay_man2

wkearney99 said:


> The simplest solution would be to just use their router for both. ....


In my case, I have an Apple Time Capsule and wireless-N network. I don't want to use the Fios wireless G wifi and slow Time Machine backups to the Time Capsule to a crawl.

It's encouraging to hear that it can be done, and I'll post my experience with the install later this week.


----------



## SirWells

It seems it may be easier to just use my coax cabling and using the Actiontek router with my Dlink N router. If they can run a dedicated Cat5 line, I'd give that a shot. I'm never going to use Verizon set top boxes as I'll be using by Tivos.

Glad to hear I won't lose all my shows and that the season passes will actually transfer. My Tivo continues to amaze me!

Thank you for all your help everyone!


----------



## g1230g

I have FIOS HD and of course the Motorola HD DVR is absolute junk (at $19.99 rental no less), along with the regular DVR. I want to ditch the Motorola junk and upgrade.

I need a higher capacity hard drive and the Tivo series 3 seems to be popular around these parts.

Any pro or con comments, or common complaints, on integrating the Tivo DVR's into the FIOS system, is appreciated, and Verizon said they will mail the cards out.

Also, has anyone been able to use the DTV branded Hughes DVR's with Verizon cable cards?

Thanks.


----------



## wkearney99

By DTV I'm guessing you mean DirecTV. Those units will not work with anything other than DirecTV service. Their card slot is not the same as a CableCard slot. Nothing can be done to make a DirecTV unit work with anything other than DirecTV.

Yes, the FIOS motorola stuff is utter garbage. 

Read the thread here for various Tivo with FIOS observations, no point in everyone rehashing it when you can just go re-read it. 

As for the drive upgrades, there are likewise other threads here that cover it. I pulled the drive out of my TivoHD and replaced it with a 750GB unit, works great if a little louder than the factory drive. But, again, read the other threads on this.


----------



## rocko

jay_man2 said:


> In my case, I have an Apple Time Capsule and wireless-N network. I don't want to use the Fios wireless G wifi and slow Time Machine backups to the Time Capsule to a crawl.
> 
> It's encouraging to hear that it can be done, and I'll post my experience with the install later this week.


Many folks, myself included, use their wireless-N routers instead of the Actiontec. Like suggested you should turn off the firewall on your router and disable the DHCP server. One other tip is to connect your router using a LAN port instead of the WAN port.


----------



## g1230g

wkearney99 said:


> By DTV I'm guessing you mean DirecTV. Those units will not work with anything other than DirecTV service. Their card slot is not the same as a CableCard slot. Nothing can be done to make a DirecTV unit work with anything other than DirecTV.
> 
> Yes, the FIOS motorola stuff is utter garbage.
> 
> Read the thread here for various Tivo with FIOS observations, no point in everyone rehashing it when you can just go re-read it.
> 
> As for the drive upgrades, there are likewise other threads here that cover it. I pulled the drive out of my TivoHD and replaced it with a 750GB unit, works great if a little louder than the factory drive. But, again, read the other threads on this.


Thanks for the response. I did re-read back to page 34, but was hoping for more current info. Either way, it does sound fairly straight forward with very few known issues with the series 3.


----------



## aaronwt

wkearney99 said:


> The simplest solution would be to just use their router for both. But you can use yours and disable just wifi on the verizon unit. However, you will probably need to reconfigure your router so that it behaves as an 'access point' instead of a full router. This way you won't have one router behind the other, which raises hassles for some things. Make sure your router can be configured as an access point (most can, but some cannot). What make/model is it?
> 
> You can run a line from the fiber ONT to the verizon router using EITHER coax or CAT5. If you're using Verizon set top boxes, AT ALL, you'll need to have coax to the Verizon router.
> 
> There are ways to avoid using the verizon router entirely but that's well beyond the scope of a Tivo forum. The suggestion to read dslreports.com is a good one, as they cover doing just that, and more.
> 
> You may or may not need to replace the in-house wiring depending on what was used and what condition it's in. If it's marginal (or unknown) then the FIOS setup includes wiring install, have them put new stuff in place of (or alongside) what's there now.


One router behind another causes no hassles as long as you don't try to use the same IP address range. I've been using 221.214.xx for 10 years as an IP address range for my own network. Nothing is going to conflict with that so it doesn't cause any problems. I have 40 devices on my network with no problems by having my Dlink DGL4500 connected to a DMZ port on the Actiontec.

Also even if you do use the Actionec with your own router behind it, still try to get an Ethernet connection from the ONT to the Actiontec. That way, if there are ever any problems with the Actiontec, you can still put your own router in there and be up and running instead of waiting for them to send a replacement. But for me my Actiontec has been fine for the 16 months I've had FIOS.


----------



## SirWells

aaronwt said:


> One router behind another causes no hassles as long as you don't try to use the same IP address range. I've been using 221.214.xx for 10 years as an IP address range for my own network. Nothing is going to conflict with that so it doesn't cause any problems. I have 40 devices on my network with no problems by having my Dlink DGL4500 connected to a DMZ port on the Actiontec.
> 
> Also even if you do use the Actionec with your own router behind it, still try to get an Ethernet connection from the ONT to the Actiontec. That way, if there are ever any problems with the Actiontec, you can still put your own router in there and be up and running instead of waiting for them to send a replacement. But for me my Actiontec has been fine for the 16 months I've had FIOS.


I read some posts on DSL Reports and some on here about the configuration you'd have to do on the Actiontek router in order to use your own router in conjunction with it. Some seem more detailed than others, what is it that a really need to do? Just turn off the wireless on the Actiontek? Do I need to do anything on my own DLink router? I just want wireless N...


----------



## teasip

Cat5 from ONT to Airport Extreme. Cable from LAN on APE to LAN on AT. In other words, I've got my N router in front of the AT which I use for TV only. Turn off obtain IP on the AT as well as the wireless and you're good to go. Takes less than 3 minutes.


----------



## wkearney99

aaronwt said:


> One router behind another causes no hassles as long as you don't try to use the same IP address range.


My comment was directed toward the hassles of being behind a dual set of NAT addresses. It's a hassle that's easily avoided by using your router as an access point. If you use double NAT networks then you end up with some firewall and port forwarding hassles. Those can be 'worked around' but why bother? There's more to the hassles but that's a discussion best left to other web forums like dslreports.



> I've been using 221.214.xx for 10 years as an IP address range for my own network. Nothing is going to conflict with that so it doesn't cause any problems.


Why are you bothering with a public address range that's already allocated to APNIC? Why not just use one of the established private network numbering ranges? 192.168.x.x, 10.x.x.x and 172.16-31.x.x are specifically set aside for use as private networks. Using one of those ranges seems like it'd make a lot more sense.



> Also even if you do use the Actionec with your own router behind it, still try to get an Ethernet connection from the ONT to the Actiontec.


I believe it's one or the other, coax MOCA or cat5 ethernet, for an active connection. You don't really ever 'have to' use coax from the ONT. The only time you need coax is if you're going to use Verizon set top boxes. Even then you can still add the set top boxes later and still stay with CAT5 to the ONT. You'd just have to use the Actiontec (or some NIM100 units) to bridge the traffic from coax back to cat5.


----------



## wkearney99

SirWells said:


> I read some posts on DSL Reports and some on here about the configuration you'd have to do on the Actiontek router in order to use your own router in conjunction with it. Some seem more detailed than others, what is it that a really need to do? Just turn off the wireless on the Actiontek? Do I need to do anything on my own DLink router? I just want wireless N...


You can reconfigure the actiontec to act as a bridge. And then use your own router for handling all IP traffic. As for your D-link, which model is it? If it can be configured to behave as just an access point then you'd probably want to use that. That way all it does it provide a wireless connection to the actiontec network. It that works, and fulfills your needs then you're all set. But there are some situations where custom firewall settings might be needed. If you're only doing simple browsing, gaming and the like then you'd be fine with the d-link as an access point. But if you've got that thing configured for VPN, port forwarding to servers and that sort of stuff then perhaps not.

During the initial setup phase you may want to stick with just the verizon gear. Once that's proven to work then integrate the d-link. That way if you have to deal with verizon support you'll have a basic setup they know how to deal with. Start adding other stuff and the support people won't be of any help (as if they were anyway). Get it working first.


----------



## wkearney99

teasip said:


> Cat5 from ONT to Airport Extreme. Cable from LAN on APE to WAN on AT. In other words, I've got my N router in front of the AT which I use for TV only. Turn off obtain IP on the AT as well as the wireless and you're good to go. Takes less than 3 minutes.


The thing you have to be careful about is dealing with bandwidth for the set top boxes. The actiontec, apparently, does a better job of managing bandwidth so the set top boxes get enough bandwidth for VoD and other IP services. When you use your own router FIRST you may run into some problems with that. Just keep that in mind. Some consumer-grade routers are not capable of keeping up with some of the faster speeds. But at the same time the actiontec sucks at handling a lot of simultaneous sessions.


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## SirWells

wkearney99 said:


> You can reconfigure the actiontec to act as a bridge. And then use your own router for handling all IP traffic. As for your D-link, which model is it? If it can be configured to behave as just an access point then you'd probably want to use that. That way all it does it provide a wireless connection to the actiontec network. It that works, and fulfills your needs then you're all set. But there are some situations where custom firewall settings might be needed. If you're only doing simple browsing, gaming and the like then you'd be fine with the d-link as an access point. But if you've got that thing configured for VPN, port forwarding to servers and that sort of stuff then perhaps not.
> 
> During the initial setup phase you may want to stick with just the verizon gear. Once that's proven to work then integrate the d-link. That way if you have to deal with verizon support you'll have a basic setup they know how to deal with. Start adding other stuff and the support people won't be of any help (as if they were anyway). Get it working first.


I have the D-Link DIR-655 Extreme N Wireless Router. I'd like everything to run from the D-Link, as it would be as close to my current setup. I use a cable modem from Time Warner Cable that goes directly into my D-Link router. I guess running the coax to the Actiontek and then running my D-Link would be pretty similar to the setup I have now. The Actiontek would take the place of the cable modem and my D-Link would handle everything else.

So what would I need to do to make sure the D-Link does everything and the Actiontek serves only to take the coax signal to my D-Link?


----------



## richsadams

aaronwt said:


> One router behind another causes no hassles as long as you don't try to use the same IP address range. I've been using 221.214.xx for 10 years as an IP address range for my own network. Nothing is going to conflict with that so it doesn't cause any problems. I have 40 devices on my network with no problems by having my Dlink DGL4500 connected to a DMZ port on the Actiontec.
> 
> Also even if you do use the Actionec with your own router behind it, still try to get an Ethernet connection from the ONT to the Actiontec. That way, if there are ever any problems with the Actiontec, you can still put your own router in there and be up and running instead of waiting for them to send a replacement. But for me my Actiontec has been fine for the 16 months I've had FIOS.


I'm glad this came up...and I guess I'm with SirWells post above. Only knowing enough to be dangerous, I'm going to ask a dumb question before we jump to FIOS.

IIRC there are a number of folks here using their own routers. I have a D-Link DIR-655 Xtreme N router with three D-Link DGS-2205 gigbit switches behind it and couldn't be happier with everything. Everything I have uses Ethernet with the exception of one laptop we like to carry around the house and my cell phone while I'm home so using 802.11n with it's strong signal strength is desirable.

So my question is: is there an advantage to using VZ's Actiontec router over your own (or is it necessary in the FIOS setup - sounds like it is)? TIA!


----------



## webin

richsadams said:


> So my question is: is there an advantage to using VZ's Actiontec router over your own (or is it necessary in the FIOS setup - sounds like it is)? TIA!


If you are keeping any verizon set top boxes, the actiontec is supposedly needed for VOD, the STB's on-screen guide, and the silly widgets they offer. If you are using only tivo's, any router will do ya.


----------



## justlen

Out here in Seattle I made the switch from Comcast to FIOS a few months ago:

-I had the tech connect the Westell to the ONT via Ethernet.
-CableCard setup went flawless.
-Re-ran Guided Setup and all my Season Passes reconfigured

After the Tech left I disconnected the Westell and connected my Airport Extreme. It wouldn't connect until I called tech support and had them release the Westell MAC address from the DHCP pool. Then the Airport connected and worked.

After a bit of time I ran some speed tests and realized I wasn't getting the speeds I had signed up for. I swapped the routers, did the whole DHCP thing with Tech support and BAM I was flying.

So there is something to be said for the Westell.


----------



## richsadams

webin said:


> If you are keeping any verizon set top boxes, the actiontec is supposedly needed for VOD, the STB's on-screen guide, and the silly widgets they offer. If you are using only tivo's, any router will do ya.


Sounds good. Of course no STB's for our TiVo's but I forgot to mention that I have a basic Comcast STB for EyeTV on my iMac. I don't care about VOD and EyeTV provides their own guide. I'd like to keep that going of course, so it sounds like I will need a VZ STB. Will that require the Actiontec to work? TIA for the assistance.


----------



## SirWells

So if you use the Actiontek (or whatever router Verizon gives you) when it's connected via coax, but attach your own router to it and disable the Actiontek's wireless settings, you should be just as good as if you had a Cat5 going directly to your router, right?


----------



## aaronwt

SirWells said:


> I read some posts on DSL Reports and some on here about the configuration you'd have to do on the Actiontek router in order to use your own router in conjunction with it. Some seem more detailed than others, what is it that a really need to do? Just turn off the wireless on the Actiontek? Do I need to do anything on my own DLink router? I just want wireless N...


Just turn off wireless and have a differnet IP range for the Dlink. That is all. And also set up a DMZ for the IP address the FIOS router hands out to the DLINK.
This is all I have done and it works perfectly with no problems.


----------



## SirWells

aaronwt said:


> Just turn off wireless and have a differnet IP range for the Dlink. That is all. And also set up a DMZ for the IP address the FIOS router hands out to the DLINK.
> This is all I have done and it works perfectly with no problems.


I'll need to find out how to set up the DMZ and different IP range... Anybody know how this is done?

I think I'm going to go about it this way...


----------



## Jonathan_S

justlen said:


> It wouldn't connect until I called tech support and had them release the Westell MAC address from the DHCP pool. Then the Airport connected and worked.


You don't actually _have_ to call tech support for this if you don't want to. 
The Actiontec has an option (I recall it being fairly easy to locate) to do a DHCP release.

If you do that before unhooking it you won't have to ring up tech support just to swap routers.


----------



## wkearney99

richsadams said:


> So my question is: is there an advantage to using VZ's Actiontec router over your own (or is it necessary in the FIOS setup - sounds like it is)? TIA!


It's free with the setup. It is necessary for set top boxes, unless you obtain a rather expensive alternative (the moto NIM100 units). That and the setup techs will not debug anything else besides the Actioncrap unit. It's not a bad router if you're only doing casual web surfing with only a couple of computers. Start cranking a lot of traffic, or needing fancier in-bound configurations and it's worth supplementing it.


----------



## SirWells

wkearney99 said:


> It's free with the setup. It is necessary for set top boxes, unless you obtain a rather expensive alternative (the moto NIM100 units). That and the setup techs will not debug anything else besides the Actioncrap unit. It's not a bad router if you're only doing casual web surfing with only a couple of computers. Start cranking a lot of traffic, or needing fancier in-bound configurations and it's worth supplementing it.


And supplementing with your own router it just as good as replacing it altogether (obviously if not using Verizon's VOD and menu)?


----------



## mae

aaronwt said:


> Just turn off wireless and have a differnet IP range for the Dlink. That is all. And also set up a DMZ for the IP address the FIOS router hands out to the DLINK.
> This is all I have done and it works perfectly with no problems.


There seem to be a bunch of us abandoning our cablecos (Comcast in my case) for FIOS. Like Rich, I know enough only to be dangerous.

I'd like to keep my current setup (the wireless reaches the whole house from the basement) using my trusty Linksys WRT54g and antennas with gain. I've never needed a DMZ and don't know if it goes on the Actiontec or my router.

Would someone please post their settings on the Actiontec and what needs to be set on the routers? Maybe it could be set up as a sticky or even move these discussions to an "official" FIOS thread with it at the top like we have for other providers.

What does everyone think?


----------



## SirWells

mae said:


> There seem to be a bunch of us abandoning our cablecos (Comcast in my case) for FIOS. Like Rich, I know enough only to be dangerous.
> 
> I'd like to keep my current setup (the wireless reaches the whole house from the basement) using my trusty Linksys WRT54g and antennas with gain. I've never needed a DMZ and don't know if it goes on the Actiontec or my router.
> 
> Would someone please post their settings on the Actiontec and what needs to be set on the routers? Maybe it could be set up as a sticky or even move these discussions to an "official" FIOS thread with it at the top like we have for other providers.
> 
> What does everyone think?


I'm with you!


----------



## richsadams

mae said:


> Would someone please post their settings on the Actiontec and what needs to be set on the routers?


That would be great! That and a schematic showing the setup if you want to (mostly) keep your existing network would be very welcome. :up:


----------



## mae

I PM'ed Dan about setting up an "official" thread. I suggested that this thread could be designated since it already has a fair amount of info. By listing it with the other official threads, newbies would find it faster.


----------



## rocko

richsadams said:


> That would be great! That and a schematic showing the setup if you want to (mostly) keep your existing network would be very welcome. :up:


Something like this, perhaps?

*The network*










This is an admittedly busy schematic of my actual setup. It has a mix of just about all possibilities with a FIOS setup. Note the split before the STB when using a NIM - the NIM seems to strip out the MOCA required by the STB. If you want to hang all of your hardwired stuff off of your router feel free. I actually have a few switches in the mix but I left them out for the sake of clarity. My PC's aren't really relevant for this excercise.

Otherwise, pick one that you need. YMMV.

*Turning off wireless in the Actiontec*










If you'd like to see something additional or need clarification let me know and I'll fix the pictures or add whatever I can.


----------



## mae

Rocko,

Thanks. That's great.

I do have a few questions.

1) Should the jumper go from a LAN port on the Actiontec to a LAN port or the WAN port on the router?
2) What's the default address on the Actiontec? I have some printers with static IPs and if the DHCP server is other than 192.168.1.1, they'll have to be reset to be within the Actiontec's range.
3) Does a DMZ need to be set up? How?
4) Some of the house wiring is old RG-59 (but not the main split that now goes to a cable modem). How robust is the FIOS signal and MOCA? I have a Motorola bidirectional amp, will it work or need to be removed?

BTW, this thread will be linked as the "official" thread in the sticky at the top.

Mark


----------



## richsadams

rocko said:


> Something like this, perhaps?
> If you'd like to see something additional or need clarification let me know and I'll fix the pictures or add whatever I can.


Awesome! You rock! :up: I'll study it and if I get confused (it could happen  ) I'll let you know. Thanks very, very much!


----------



## rocko

mae said:


> Rocko,
> 
> Thanks. That's great.
> 
> I do have a few questions.
> 
> 1) Should the jumper go from a LAN port on the Actiontec to a LAN port or the WAN port on the router?
> 2) What's the default address on the Actiontec? I have some printers with static IPs and if the DHCP server is other than 192.168.1.1, they'll have to be reset to be within the Actiontec's range.
> 3) Does a DMZ need to be set up? How?
> 4) Some of the house wiring is old RG-59 (but not the main split that now goes to a cable modem). How robust is the FIOS signal and MOCA? I have a Motorola bidirectional amp, will it work or need to be removed?
> 
> BTW, this thread will be linked as the "official" thread in the sticky at the top.
> 
> Mark


1) My jumper goes from LAN port to LAN port 
(not WAN on your router)
2) The default on the Actiontec is 192.168.1.1 - you're in luck
3) I just turn off the firewall on my Linksys. This effectively makes all ports a DMZ.
4) FIOS is notoriously "hot". As you can see I have mine split 3 times in one place. My wiring has been around for over 10 years and handles it fine. You will most likely *not* need the amp.


----------



## igrok

Rocko, great diagram!

I just wanted to confirm that the tivos being fed from the nim100s, which get their ether pre-actiontec, are still being given DHCP from the actiontek so that their ether connection is fine. That is, I currently have mine set up as follows:

ONT>coax to splitter

>splitter-output-1>actiontek>ether to bridged router and switch>tivos and computers

>splitter-output-2>splitter>coax to all tivos

So all the tivos are getting coax essentially straight from the ONT, and getting ether and DHCP through the actiontec.

Putting a NIM-100 before each tivo, I can just have the single coax coming in to the NIM-100, which then will feed separately a coax and ether to the tivo. But since the ether has not gone "through" the actiontec, do the tivos still get DHCP from the actiontec so as to be accessible to each other and my computers? I guess my question is whether the actiontec can see the tivos in this topology?


----------



## rocko

igrok said:


> Rocko, great diagram!
> 
> I just wanted to confirm that the tivos being fed from the nim100s, which get their ether pre-actiontec, are still being given DHCP from the actiontek so that their ether connection is fine. That is, I currently have mine set up as follows:
> 
> ONT>coax to splitter
> 
> >splitter-output-1>actiontek>ether to bridged router and switch>tivos and computers
> 
> >splitter-output-2>splitter>coax to all tivos
> 
> So all the tivos are getting coax essentially straight from the ONT, and getting ether and DHCP through the actiontec.
> 
> Putting a NIM-100 before each tivo, I can just have the single coax coming in to the NIM-100, which then will feed separately a coax and ether to the tivo. But since the ether has not gone "through" the actiontec, do the tivos still get DHCP from the actiontec so as to be accessible to each other and my computers? I guess my question is whether the actiontec can see the tivos in this topology?


The answer is yes. The coax doesn't go "through" the Actiontec but it is connected. This is effectively how mine is set up, lousy picture aside. Everything on the network, TiVos included, get their IP served up by the Actiontec. Note the connection type is COAX on one of the NIM connected TiVos - just like the Verizon STB.


----------



## igrok

Excellent! I just bought a three-pack of NIM100s for $88 on ebay, and plan to put them in front of my tivos. Since one of them is using the wireless adapter, I can return that, and just cry over the time I spent running ether to my other units.

I also wonder whether you've had any pixelation issues like some of us. With all the suggestions of attenuators, and diplexers or low pass filters (as suggested by verizon itself), I'm wondering whether this separation of the ether and coax by the NIM will fix the problem. In any event, passing the tv and ether by one cable will help me clean up some wiring. Do you find that the NIMs attenuate the signal at all?


----------



## rocko

igrok said:


> Excellent! I just bought a three-pack of NIM100s for $88 on ebay, and plan to put them in front of my tivos. Since one of them is using the wireless adapter, I can return that, and just cry over the time I spent running ether to my other units.
> 
> I also wonder whether you've had any pixelation issues like some of us. With all the suggestions of attenuators, and diplexers or low pass filters (as suggested by verizon itself), I'm wondering whether this separation of the ether and coax by the NIM will fix the problem. In any event, passing the tv and ether by one cable will help me clean up some wiring. Do you find that the NIMs attenuate the signal at all?


Not at all. The backward diplexer trick has helped with most of the uncorrected errors with my S3, however. BTW, good buy on the NIMs. I bribed my Verizon installer with beer and got 2 free


----------



## mae

Rocko,

Thanks. That should make it easy. I'll just change the address on the Linksys to something higher and everything else should work.

Some of my RG-59 is thirty years old, but was pretty high quality and physically seems fine, no cracking. It wouldn't be easy to replace, since I've finished off a lot of the access and I'm not as young as I was back then.

Have a Merry Christmas.

Mark


----------



## richsadams

rocko said:


> Something like this, perhaps?


How does this look? I'd use the same settings as you suggested on the Actiontec and the wireless router...unless I don't need to have a static IP (kind of a pain). The only unknown (for me) is the STB connection for my computer (currently using Comcast STB/WinTV HVR950/EyeTV). TIA!


----------



## rocko

richsadams said:


> How does this look? I'd use the same settings as you suggested on the Actiontec and the wireless router...unless I don't need to have a static IP (kind of a pain). The only unknown (for me) is the STB connection for my computer (currently using Comcast STB/WinTV HVR950/EyeTV). TIA!


All connections for video are coax so the Actiontec isn't actually connected to anything except your other router and whatever hard-wired Ethernet devices you want to hang off of the Actiontec (via Cat 5/6). You split the coax coming from the ONT - one split goes to the Actiontec - the other to your STB and TiVo(s) via another splitter.


----------



## richsadams

rocko said:


> All connections for video are coax so the Actiontec isn't actually connected to anything except your other router and whatever hard-wired Ethernet devices you want to hang off of the Actiontec (via Cat 5/6). You split the coax coming from the ONT - one split goes to the Actiontec - the other to your STB and TiVo(s) via another splitter.


Got it, thanks...I was concentrating on the network connections...didn't include the coax connections to TiVo's and the STB. Those already exist as well. Thanks very much! :up:


----------



## rocko

richsadams said:


> Got it, thanks...I was concentrating on the network connections...didn't include the coax connections to TiVo's and the STB. Those already exist as well. Thanks very much! :up:


I was commenting since I saw a CAT5/6 connection from the Actiontec to the STB which doesn't belong. Also the connection from the ONT to the Actiontec is not CAT5/6 - as your footnote/legend suggests.


----------



## richsadams

rocko said:


> I was commenting since I saw a CAT5/6 connection from the Actiontec to the STB which doesn't belong. Also the connection from the ONT to the Actiontec is not CAT5/6 - as your footnote/legend suggests.


Good catch...my mistake. Those connections s/b denoted as Coax. Thanks again!


----------



## Dmon4u

For those interested, a (very) simple FiOS STB vs TiVo or Media Center review:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/12/24/verizon-fios-hd-dvr-review/


----------



## teasip

No problems on my end with putting the AE before the ActionTec with regard to FiOS VOD/guide data, etc..


----------



## wkearney99

teasip said:


> No problems on my end with putting the AE before the ActionTec with regard to FiOS VOD/guide data, etc..


Try using a set top box for video on demand while simultaneously doing a lot of downloading from a computer. The actiontec will throttle the computer traffic so it doesn't overrun the VoD. But considering how crappy the STBs are too use, it's not like anyone smart enough to rearrange their routers is going to be bothering with the STBs.


----------



## teasip

Usually not an issue at my house since I don't download a lot of material, and almost never doing so while infrequently watching VOD. For me, the easiest approach was the AE then the AT. I've still got my original NIM100 in the closet for whenever I pull the trigger and give up on the Verizon HD-DVR (waiting on M card availability first in N. Texas). I've even got the attenuator pack in case that is needed as well.


----------



## jay_man2

My Fios install on Christmas Eve morning went very well. While the installer and the guy he was training installed the ONT outside, and battery backup and power supply on the inside wall, I installed the Actiontec, HD DVR, and two HD set-top boxes. 

The existing coax that had been connected to the Motorola cable modem (Comcast) was connected to the Actiontec, with cat5 to my Apple Time Capsule. When I went into the Airport utility to connect to the Actiontec, it recognized that the connection to the Time Capsule had changed, gave me a couple of options, including bridge mode which I selected, and we were up and running.

The cablecard install was a breeze too. I have two M-cards in my S3, and the installer was able to input the data and initialize the cards from his laptop. I re-ran guided setup, and later that evening did see that my season passes were all properly re-mapped to the new channels.

I have the 20/5 internet service, phone and HD Extreme bundle with the Home Media DVR and two HD set-top boxes, and my S3 with two M-cards and couldn't be more please with the service and the installation.


----------



## richsadams

jay_man2 said:


> My Fios install on Christmas Eve morning went very well.


Thanks very much for the report...very encouraging! :up:

How is your PQ? Are you seeing any issues?

Thanks again, enjoy and happy New Year!


----------



## Timber

jay_man2 said:


> My Fios install on Christmas Eve morning went very well. While the installer and the guy he was training installed the ONT outside, and battery backup and power supply on the inside wall, I installed the Actiontec, HD DVR, and two HD set-top boxes.
> 
> The existing coax that had been connected to the Motorola cable modem (Comcast) was connected to the Actiontec, with cat5 to my Apple Time Capsule. When I went into the Airport utility to connect to the Actiontec, it recognized that the connection to the Time Capsule had changed, gave me a couple of options, including bridge mode which I selected, and we were up and running.
> 
> The cablecard install was a breeze too. I have two M-cards in my S3, and the installer was able to input the data and initialize the cards from his laptop. I re-ran guided setup, and later that evening did see that my season passes were all properly re-mapped to the new channels.
> 
> I have the 20/5 internet service, phone and HD Extreme bundle with the Home Media DVR and two HD set-top boxes, and my S3 with two M-cards and couldn't be more please with the service and the installation.


This IS very encouraging, I'm about 10 days away from my install (Cox to Verizon.) Is there a way to quickly force the remapping of season passes or does it just happen? 

Thanks!

-=Tim=-


----------



## Mchero

jay_man2 said:


> My Fios install on Christmas Eve morning went very well. While the installer and the guy he was training installed the ONT outside, and battery backup and power supply on the inside wall, I installed the Actiontec, HD DVR, and two HD set-top boxes.
> 
> The existing coax that had been connected to the Motorola cable modem (Comcast) was connected to the Actiontec, with cat5 to my Apple Time Capsule. When I went into the Airport utility to connect to the Actiontec, it recognized that the connection to the Time Capsule had changed, gave me a couple of options, including bridge mode which I selected, and we were up and running.
> 
> The cablecard install was a breeze too. I have two M-cards in my S3, and the installer was able to input the data and initialize the cards from his laptop. I re-ran guided setup, and later that evening did see that my season passes were all properly re-mapped to the new channels.
> 
> I have the 20/5 internet service, phone and HD Extreme bundle with the Home Media DVR and two HD set-top boxes, and my S3 with two M-cards and couldn't be more please with the service and the installation.


Jay

Why two M-Cards? I'm running just one M-Card on my Comcast cable.


----------



## rocko

Mchero said:


> Jay
> 
> Why two M-Cards? I'm running just one M-Card on my Comcast cable.


S3 - needs 2 cards regardless whether they're single or multi-stream.


----------



## rocko

Timber said:


> This IS very encouraging, I'm about 10 days away from my install (Cox to Verizon.) Is there a way to quickly force the remapping of season passes or does it just happen?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -=Tim=-


Once the new lineup is downloaded and indexed the remapped SPs should be available immediately.


----------



## Timber

I know the tech will make the decision when he comes here but I'm curious about this.

At the point that phone service hits my house I have two connection mediums to my office which is where my computer is: either coax or Cat5. Which do y'all think they'll use for that connection?

-=Tim=-


----------



## wmcbrine

It's their policy nowadays to use coax. But you should ask them to use cat5.


----------



## jay_man2

Timber said:


> This IS very encouraging, I'm about 10 days away from my install (Cox to Verizon.) Is there a way to quickly force the remapping of season passes or does it just happen?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -=Tim=-


It just happened, but it wasn't instantaneous. I don't know how long over a 12 hour period it took after running the Guided Setup.

There's no way that I found, other than deleting and recreating the season pass, to do it any faster. Since I'm in a lull period, with no shows queued in the To Do list, I could afford to wait.


----------



## jay_man2

rocko said:


> S3 - needs 2 cards regardless whether they're single or multi-stream.


Exactly. To get two tuner functionality, the S3 needs two cards, whereas the TiVo HD supports one M-card to provide two tuner functionality.


----------



## jay_man2

richsadams said:


> Thanks very much for the report...very encouraging! :up:
> 
> How is your PQ? Are you seeing any issues?
> 
> Thanks again, enjoy and happy New Year!


The picture quality is excellent, and I've not experienced any issues. No pixelation or audio dropouts with the S3, like I had with Comcast.

And the internet service is great, with consistent up and download speeds. No more sharing bandwidth in the neighborhood, like with Comcast. Dedicated bandwidth, same as DSL service.


----------



## richsadams

jay_man2 said:


> The picture quality is excellent, and I've not experienced any issues. No pixelation or audio dropouts with the S3, like I had with Comcast.
> 
> An the internet service is great, with consistent up and download speeds. No more sharing bandwidth in the neighborhood, like with Comcast. Dedicated bandwidth, same as DSL service.


Music to my ears...um, eyes! :up:


----------



## SirWells

Another question. With Time Warner Cable, the only shows I could copy to my hard drive or send via MRV were the the basic stations, CBS, NBC, Fox, ABC, PBS, etc. How is Verizon as far as blocking certain channels from being sent to other Tivo's for MRV or sending to a hard drive? I understand that premium channels won't work but Discovery or History Channel?


----------



## Gregor

SirWells said:


> Another question. With Time Warner Cable, the only shows I could copy to my hard drive or send via MRV were the the basic stations, CBS, NBC, Fox, ABC, PBS, etc. How is Verizon as far as blocking certain channels from being sent to other Tivo's for MRV or sending to a hard drive? I understand that premium channels won't work but Discovery or History Channel?


HBO is copy protected on my system. don't see restrictions on other premium channels. Discovery and HC have no restrictions.


----------



## SirWells

Just to clarify, if I did have coax running to the Actiontek, turned the Actiontek into a bridge to my DLink router, would I experience the same upload and download speeds as I would if I had Cat5 connected from the ONT directly to my DLink router?

I plan to ask the Verizon installer to give me a dedicated Cat5 line from the ONT. I just was curious in case he wouldn't do it...


----------



## David Platt

SirWells said:


> Another question. With Time Warner Cable, the only shows I could copy to my hard drive or send via MRV were the the basic stations, CBS, NBC, Fox, ABC, PBS, etc. How is Verizon as far as blocking certain channels from being sent to other Tivo's for MRV or sending to a hard drive? I understand that premium channels won't work but Discovery or History Channel?


At least in the Portland market, nothing is copy-protected. I've never run into a show I couldn't transfer. I just did an HBO program to make sure.


----------



## wmcbrine

SirWells said:


> Just to clarify, if I did have coax running to the Actiontek, turned the Actiontek into a bridge to my DLink router, would I experience the same upload and download speeds as I would if I had Cat5 connected from the ONT directly to my DLink router?


Bandwidth would be the same, but latency might be affected.


----------



## richsadams

David Platt said:


> At least in the Portland market, nothing is copy-protected. I've never run into a show I couldn't transfer. I just did an HBO program to make sure.


Yep, MRV is no problem here...but I can't transfer HBO, Showtime and some programs to my computer due to copy protection.


----------



## SirWells

richsadams said:


> Yep, MRV is no problem here...but I can't transfer HBO, Showtime and some programs to my computer due to copy protection.


I remember how excited my wife and I were were MRV was finally enabled and then we discovered we couldn't copy anything! Time Warner Cable red flagged everything except channels you'd pick up over their air. I'm so excited for my installation tomorrow!


----------



## SirWells

wmcbrine said:


> Bandwidth would be the same, but latency might be affected.


I think I remember now about reading something on DSL Reports that the latency would be around 10 milliseconds. Regardless, I'm going to try my best to have the Verizon tech run me a dedicated Cat5 line.

I live in a garden apartment so there are multiple ONT boxes that are shared around the development. The ONT box that is closest to my set of buildings is literally on the outside all of my apartment. Probably the easiest install as the wiring would be minimal compared to other apartments in the complex. From what you have all said and even the person I spoke to with Verizon, these techs will do basically anything you ask them to. Keeping my fingers crossed.


----------



## David Platt

richsadams said:


> Yep, MRV is no problem here...but I can't transfer HBO, Showtime and some programs to my computer due to copy protection.


That's really weird, since we're basically in the same market. I can transfer anything, including HBO/Showtime shows, to my computer with TiVo Desktop.


----------



## richsadams

rocko said:


> All connections for video are coax so the Actiontec isn't actually connected to anything except your other router and whatever hard-wired Ethernet devices you want to hang off of the Actiontec (via Cat 5/6). You split the coax coming from the ONT - one split goes to the Actiontec - the other to your STB and TiVo(s) via another splitter.


Reworked the proposed network...










Make sense? TIA! :up:


----------



## richsadams

David Platt said:


> That's really weird, since we're basically in the same market. I can transfer anything, including HBO/Showtime shows, to my computer with TiVo Desktop.


That is strange. I don't have my PC hooked up anymore, but copy protected shows showed up with the "no" symbol next to them on TiVo Desktop. Using iTiVo on my Mac copy protected recordings don't even show up.


----------



## SirWells

My Verizon installer is on his way. The only thing that's worrying me is he said he just got a crash course on how to install them from his boss, as he's never done a cablecard installation before! At least I know what to do on the Tivo end, hopefully this goes well!


----------



## rocko

richsadams said:


> Reworked the proposed network...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Make sense? TIA! :up:


Much better. No reason that shouldn't work :up:

When are you pulling the trigger on the FIOS install?


----------



## richsadams

rocko said:


> Much better. No reason that shouldn't work :up:
> 
> When are you pulling the trigger on the FIOS install?


Thanks very much!

I'm still dragging my heals when it comes to the actual install. Many here are enjoying FIOS problem-free, but then others are experiencing different levels of frustration. I realize that when things are good people rarely join a forum to say so, but still. I'm one of those borderline perfectionists that fusses whenever A/V glitches occur. It makes my wife, um, uncomfortable when I say something in the middle of a movie or whatever.

To be honest, our Comcast setup (more or less what you see in the schematic) is working fine. I'm just hungry for better HD PQ and that big broadband pipe. Plus it'll save some money every month (for the first year or two anyway).

I'm really grateful for your and everyone's feedback here though. :up: I discussed it with a VZ tech that was at a house down the street recently and starting spitting out all sorts of details that I'd picked up here. He said that he should just hand me the cable cards, attenuators and let me do the installation myself since it sounded like I knew as much or more than he did (in a very nice way). I don't think so! Who would I blame if something went wrong?

So I'm struggling with the "if it ain't broke..." syndrome. The fact that my wife is starting to hurt herself from rolling her eyes when I talk about it is getting a bit old though. Either way it's not making for a good and loving relationship with TiVo or my wife so I need to get off the fence/pot soon. 

Thanks again!


----------



## rocko

richsadams said:


> Thanks very much!
> 
> I'm still dragging my heals when it comes to the actual install. Many here are enjoying FIOS problem-free, but then others are experiencing different levels of frustration. I realize that when things are good people rarely join a forum to say so, but still. I'm one of those borderline perfectionists that fusses whenever A/V glitches occur. It makes my wife, um, uncomfortable when I say something in the middle of a movie or whatever.
> 
> To be honest, our Comcast setup (more or less what you see in the schematic) is working fine. I'm just hungry for better HD PQ and that big broadband pipe. Plus it'll save some money every month (for the first year or two anyway).
> 
> I'm really grateful for your and everyone's feedback here though. :up: I discussed it with a VZ tech that was at a house down the street recently and starting spitting out all sorts of details that I'd picked up here. He said that he should just hand me the cable cards, attenuators and let me do the installation myself since it sounded like I knew as much or more than he did (in a very nice way). I don't think so! Who would I blame if something went wrong?
> 
> So I'm struggling with the "if it ain't broke..." syndrome. The fact that my wife is starting to hurt herself from rolling her eyes when I talk about it is getting a bit old though. Either way it's not making for a good and loving relationship with TiVo or my wife so I need to get off the fence/pot soon.
> 
> Thanks again!


You can always go for the FIOS broadband now and fuss over the TV later - that's what I did. At least that will get the ONT infrastructure in place - you can add the TV and CableCARDS/STB later and cancel within 14 days if you're not happy. The good news is that you can use the existing cabling. The bad news is if you need to cancel dealing with Verizon billing is another nightmare in itself.

I understand the WAF - been there done that. I can say that, despite some rare PQ issues, I don't regret making the move from Cablevision for a nanosecond.


----------



## naclone

I have verizon coming to do an install on Friday. I have an S3 and a DT, both of which currently connect wirelessly via a belkin N1 vision. a few questions in preparation of the install:

1. do i need to do anything before removing the RCN cable cards that are in the S3 now? or is it as simple as powering off the unit, taking them out and replacing them with the verizon cards and rerunning guided setup?

2. is there anyway i can get the verizon tech to set everything up so that I can still use the belkin N1 or will I have to reconfigure things myself after he's left (just wondering if their policy is to only set it up one way or if there is flexibility)?

3. what is the current best practice with regard to attenuation/diplexing? should i make sure the tech brings along equipment for this or should i just see how the install goes? it's difficult to ascertain whether the pixelation issue is universal or less widespread. 

I've read all of this thread and the other fios thread, but a lot of it is still over my head unfortunately. any tips prior to the install would be greatly appreciated. 

otherwise, i'll just hope for the best.

thanks!


----------



## jay_man2

naclone said:


> I have verizon coming to do an install on Friday. I have an S3 and a DT, both of which currently connect wirelessly via a belkin N1 vision. a few questions in preparation of the install:
> 
> 1. do i need to do anything before removing the RCN cable cards that are in the S3 now? or is it as simple as powering off the unit, taking them out and replacing them with the verizon cards and rerunning guided setup?
> 
> ...


When my install was done recently, we did not even power off the S3. I just pulled the old Comcast cards out, the FiOS tech installed the new cards, then we got the data off the screen for each card, he input the data into his laptop, and a few minutes later we were doing the channel test on both cards. Very easy.

After he left I reran guided setup, and later that evening all my season passes had properly been remapped to the new channel numbers.


----------



## wmcbrine

David Platt said:


> That's really weird, since we're basically in the same market.


It's not weird. He's not on Fios. You're talking Fios, he's talking Comcast.


----------



## naclone

jay_man2 said:


> When my install was done recently, we did not even power off the S3. I just pulled the old Comcast cards out, the FiOS tech installed the new cards, then we got the data off the screen for each card, he input the data into his laptop, and a few minutes later we were doing the channel test on both cards. Very easy.
> 
> After he left I reran guided setup, and later that evening all my season passes had properly been remapped to the new channel numbers.


thanks. sounds fairly painless.

anything else i should keep in mind? this kind of thing always stresses me out.


----------



## richsadams

rocko said:


> You can always go for the FIOS broadband now and fuss over the TV later - that's what I did. At least that will get the ONT infrastructure in place - you can add the TV and CableCARDS/STB later and cancel within 14 days if you're not happy. The good news is that you can use the existing cabling. The bad news is if you need to cancel dealing with Verizon billing is another nightmare in itself.
> 
> I understand the WAF - been there done that. I can say that, despite some rare PQ issues, I don't regret making the move from Cablevision for a nanosecond.


Good idea regarding the broadband, then TV installation, baby steps and all. I might just go that route. :up:

I hear you about VZ's billing dept. We've had VZ Cell phones for a while now and are still trying to get them to change our home address...it's been over a year now. Sheesh!

Thanks for the tip(s)!


----------



## richsadams

wmcbrine said:


> It's not weird. He's not on Fios. You're talking Fios, he's talking Comcast.


D'oh!


----------



## David Platt

richsadams said:


> D'oh!


Double D'oh. 

I assumed he was talking about Verizon, since that what I was responding about. I forgot that Rich didn't have FiOS yet.


----------



## SirWells

Finally up and running with Fios, but only after a 9 hour installation! The installer was a very nice guy but completely inept and was in way over his head. He told me all he was given were two days of training. I was helping up the entire time. Other techs had to come and help him from time to time. He arrived at around 10 AM and we didn't even begin with the cable cards until around 6 PM! I could go on and on but I won't. The important thing is everything finally worked in the end, well sort of.

The cable card installation went well, although the tech had to call up again to inquire why one of my Tivo's were only picking up Verizon's local package only. I restarted the Tivo at the same time Verizon sent a hit to the cards. That Tivo started to work right after, so I'm not sure what exactly did it, but I'm not worrying. On a side note, the installer told me that in training they were taught about cablecards so quickly, because they said the odds of installing them were very slim. Of course, this guys first installation are cablecards! But I digress...

I originally asked for a Cat5 line but realized that what I thought was the ONT outside my building (which serviced about 20 apartments) was really more of a Super ONT. From that box outside, a direct fiber line would be brought into each apartment. From there, a separate ONT box along with battery backup would be installed. Apparently this is something pretty new to Fios, or at least in my area. I had both boxes installed on the top shelf of my hall closet. I had to hide them from view and minimize the amount of space they took up so my wife wouldn't kick me out of the house.

The only main issue that I ran into was trying to bridge the Actiontek. I walked through the entire setup from a thread on DSL Reports. My DLink wouldn't pick up an IP address. I was thinking maybe the range of IPs the DLink used were the same as the Actointek, messed around with the ranges, etc. It got to the point where I had to reset the Actiontek and start over, which I did, to no avail. Finally, I gave up, was going to just use the Actiontek. At that point, I couldn't even access the Actiontek to change settings. I called up Verizon where I was basically chastised for attempting to bridge the Actiontek. I had to wait two hours for the Actiontek to work because I attempted to use another device and pick up an IP. Ended up waiting until this morning, had to reset the router, but finally the Actiontek is working again. I really have no clue what's going on.

Big question, if I'm just using the net for Xbox Live, Netflix streaming, video chat, the occasional bit torrent transfer, will the Actiontek be ok? I keep reading about this NAT issue and I'm wondering if it really applies to me...


----------



## SirWells

Ok, apparently the Xbox 360 and Fios have major issues. I have to find out how to bridge the Actiontek to my DLink...


----------



## rocko

SirWells said:


> Ok, apparently the Xbox 360 and Fios have major issues. I have to find out how to bridge the Actiontek to my DLink...


Errm, not for nothing, but I would caution you not to believe everything you read - unless you read it here, of course 

I'm hanging an XBox, a Wii, 10 computers, 2 FIOS STBs and 4 TiVos off my Actiontec while running torrents out the wazoo and piggybacking a Linksys WRT300N. No real problems - I do reboot the Actiontec about once a week.

There's nothing special you need to do to piggyback your DLink off the Actiontec. Look back to page 45 of this thread for some details.

And relax.


----------



## SeanC

SirWells said:


> I had to wait two hours for the Actiontek to work because I attempted to use another device and pick up an IP. Ended up waiting until this morning, had to reset the router, but finally the Actiontek is working again. I really have no clue what's going on.


While the Actiontek is a pretty crappy router (from a power user point of view), rocko is right, everything should work fine. My neighbor does bittorrent and xbox live with no problems with the Actiontek.

But that's not why I'm replying. The leases that the DHCP system that FIOS uses are ridiculous. Once the system hands out an IP on your connection it will not supply another until it times out or you get FIOS tech support to break the lease. Some agents know this and will do it as a troubleshooting step, some don't. You're better off requesting that they break the lease if you can't get the Actiontek to grab an IP.


----------



## Distortedloop

richsadams said:


> Good idea regarding the broadband, then TV installation, baby steps and all. I might just go that route. :up:
> 
> I hear you about VZ's billing dept. We've had VZ Cell phones for a while now and are still trying to get them to change our home address...it's been over a year now. Sheesh!
> 
> Thanks for the tip(s)!


I never had problems with Verizon for either traditional phone service, or when I had them for cellular service, but you sure hear a lot of people ***** about them on the forums. Definitely one of those your mileage may vary things.

One drawback to the idea of stepping in one service at a time is you give up some deep discounts on the services if you don't bundle, don't you?

I switched from a perfectly fine TWC TV/Internet combo to FIOS six weeks ago and couldn't be happier. My internet is twice fast (and pretty much really is in terms of download speeds) and the PQ on TV is far less compressed, plus I have three times as many channels in HD, and three times as many premium movie channels, FOR LESS MONEY.

Very very pleased, and absolutely no issues with the TiVO Series 3 install, even though my installer had never done one before. The only glitch of the day was they didn't have the S-Cards in stock at his local office when he rolled to my house, so he installed the ONT and internet while we waited for an installer from another area to hand deliver the two cards to my house. Now that's impressive.


----------



## Distortedloop

rocko said:


> No real problems - I do reboot the Actiontec about once a week.


From my point of view, THAT'S a real, and big, problem. I've been using routers in the house for over a decade; I've gone through a few different brands and models, but without exception, be it D-Link, Netgear, of Linksys, all of my routers would never require a reboot, even for a year at a time unless I wanted to change a setting or upgrade firmware that required a reboot.

If you're rebooting once per week for stability or some such reason, that seems like an unreasonably short up time for a consumer level device, which should pretty much be plug in and forget, just like any other consumer appliance.


----------



## rocko

Distortedloop said:


> From my point of view, THAT'S a real, and big, problem. I've been using routers in the house for over a decade; I've gone through a few different brands and models, but without exception, be it D-Link, Netgear, of Linksys, all of my routers would never require a reboot, even for a year at a time unless I wanted to change a setting or upgrade firmware that required a reboot.
> 
> If you're rebooting once per week for stability or some such reason, that seems like an unreasonably short up time for a consumer level device, which should pretty much be plug in and forget, just like any other consumer appliance.


I do it out of habit, not necessity. That comment was probably irrelevant for the purpose of this conversation.


----------



## wmcbrine

I don't know why rocko is rebooting once a week, but I don't think I've ever had to in two years.

The only thing I'll criticize my Actiontec for is refusing to talk to my Eee PC wirelessly, but I'm not sure which device is at fault there.


----------



## Scyber

IIRC, the actiontec router has an undersized NAT table. And once it is full it causes issues (requiring a reboot). This isn't a problem for normal web browsing, but some uses (such as torrents) will fill up the NAT table quickly.


----------



## richsadams

Distortedloop said:


> One drawback to the idea of stepping in one service at a time is you give up some deep discounts on the services if you don't bundle, don't you?


Thanks for the advice and the positive VZ feedback. I thought about the bundling bit later...they offer phone/broadband/TV for $99 here (and a little more if you want faster broadband, HBO, etc.) All-in-all it would still be less than Comcast. So yes, I'm pretty sure if I just went with broadband the price wouldn't be as good. I'll probably dive in with both feet...soon. 

What broadband speed did you end up with? If you had it to do again, would you go with a faster or slower connection? TIA!


----------



## SirWells

rocko said:


> Errm, not for nothing, but I would caution you not to believe everything you read - unless you read it here, of course
> 
> I'm hanging an XBox, a Wii, 10 computers, 2 FIOS STBs and 4 TiVos off my Actiontec while running torrents out the wazoo and piggybacking a Linksys WRT300N. No real problems - I do reboot the Actiontec about once a week.
> 
> There's nothing special you need to do to piggyback your DLink off the Actiontec. Look back to page 45 of this thread for some details.
> 
> And relax.


I ended up hardwiring my Xbox 360 to the Actiontech and it runs much better now.

I still want to bridge the Actiontec to my DLink. I think the DLink uses the same IP addresses at the Actiontec. To access the DLink I would use 192.168.0.1 while the Actiontec is 192.168.1.1. I think they both use the same number system for devices though. I tried to change them on my DLink but nothing seemed to work and then the entire Actiontec shut down on me!


----------



## Timber

richsadams said:


> Thanks for the advice and the positive VZ feedback. I thought about the bundling bit later...they offer phone/broadband/TV for $99 here (and a little more if you want faster broadband, HBO, etc.) All-in-all it would still be less than Comcast. So yes, I'm pretty sure if I just went with broadband the price wouldn't be as good. I'll probably dive in with both feet...soon.


Be careful to compare apples to apples and also make sure you factor in taxes. My cable and FIOS bills were pretty close once I included boxes, unlimited phone, cable cards, etc and got the cable co. to give me an aggressive quote and included tax. However I went for FIOS for the better picture and higher confidence in Verizon rather than Cox on phone service.

-=Tim=-


----------



## Distortedloop

richsadams said:


> What broadband speed did you end up with? If you had it to do again, would you go with a faster or slower connection? TIA!


With Time Warner, I had the 10/2 service. FIOS I opted for the 20/5 service, which seemed like the best compromise on speed for torrents/downloads vs price. I'm considering doing more online backups of large amounts of data, and even 5 up is pretty intolerable for that, so I'm considering upping to the 20/20. Of course, if I could even remotely justify the huge premium for the 50 down service, I'd jump on it, but it's a $100/mo premium for that extra speed, and I just can't justify it. It would be sweet, though.



Timber said:


> Be careful to compare apples to apples and also make sure you factor in taxes. My cable and FIOS bills were pretty close once I included boxes, unlimited phone, cable cards, etc and got the cable co. to give me an aggressive quote and included tax. However I went for FIOS for the better picture and higher confidence in Verizon rather than Cox on phone service.


Good advice to make sure you're comparing comparable services. As stated earlier, my TV/Internet package, whether you include taxes or not, is less than Time Warner was on a dollar basis, and FIOS is giving me so much more for that (faster internet, better picture quality, and a ton more HD and premium movie channels).

It's pretty easy for the richsadams to run through the package pricing tool on FIOS website to get a comparison. Just make sure to take into account that every television will require a FIOS STB or DVR unless you have CableCard ready TiVos or TVs, and you'll have to account for that as Tim points out. My only gripe with FIOS' pricing is to get this good deal requires the 1 year contract with cancellation fee crap (similar to cellphone contracts), while Time Warner never required a contract. Since I don't plan on canceling, not a real concern, but another pricing consideration to consider when comparing.


----------



## rocko

SirWells said:


> I ended up hardwiring my Xbox 360 to the Actiontech and it runs much better now.
> 
> I still want to bridge the Actiontec to my DLink. I think the DLink uses the same IP addresses at the Actiontec. To access the DLink I would use 192.168.0.1 while the Actiontec is 192.168.1.1. I think they both use the same number system for devices though. I tried to change them on my DLink but nothing seemed to work and then the entire Actiontec shut down on me!


You should be able to set your DLink to something like:
IP address: 192.168.1.2
DNS: 192.168.1.1
Subnet: 255.255.255.0

Turn off DHCP on the DLink and you should be good to go. Remember to connect the DLink using a LAN port, not the WAN port. If you want to use the DLink for wireless access turn off the wireless on the Actiontec.


----------



## SirWells

rocko said:


> You should be able to set your DLink to something like:
> IP address: 192.168.1.2
> DNS: 192.168.1.1
> Subnet: 255.255.255.0
> 
> Turn off DHCP on the DLink and you should be good to go. Remember to connect the DLink using a LAN port, not the WAN port. If you want to use the DLink for wireless access turn off the wireless on the Actiontec.


So connect LAN on the Actiontek to the Internet (Wan) port on the DLink?


----------



## rocko

SirWells said:


> So connect LAN on the Actiontek to the Internet (Wan) port on the DLink?


No. Connect LAN to LAN.


----------



## Jonathan_S

SeanC said:


> The leases that the DHCP system that FIOS uses are ridiculous. Once the system hands out an IP on your connection it will not supply another until it times out or you get FIOS tech support to break the lease. Some agents know this and will do it as a troubleshooting step, some don't. You're better off requesting that they break the lease if you can't get the Actiontek to grab an IP.


In my experience Verizon's system will honor a DHCP release. So if you accidentally grabbed an IP address with one router, going into its config and hitting DHCP release will cause their DHCP server to drop the lease. Then your other router will be able to get a new DHCP lease without involving Verizon tech support.


----------



## sinanju

Jonathan_S said:


> In my experience Verizon's system will honor a DHCP release. So if you accidentally grabbed an IP address with one router, going into its config and hitting DHCP release will cause their DHCP server to drop the lease. Then your other router will be able to get a new DHCP lease without involving Verizon tech support.


You can do a release but, in my experience, the following renew will get you the address you had before.


----------



## Distortedloop

sinanju said:


> You can do a release but, in my experience, the following renew will get you the address you had before.


That shouldn't be a problem (if it's even the case) in the context of the issue of trying to switch from the Verizon provided router to your own. Doesn't matter what public ip address you get on the new router, as long as your recognized by Verizon's routers upstream.

Another option I didn't see anyone mention for the original person with the issue was you should be able to "clone" the MAC address of the Verizon provided router in your own router. Look around in your settings for that feature. Then any connection back to the network, Verizon will just think you're the router they provided to you.


----------



## SeanC

Jonathan_S said:


> In my experience Verizon's system will honor a DHCP release. So if you accidentally grabbed an IP address with one router, going into its config and hitting DHCP release will cause their DHCP server to drop the lease. Then your other router will be able to get a new DHCP lease without involving Verizon tech support.


Ah, yes. I have seen this but only in one specific situation. Only their CrAptiontek (I think I'll copyright that ) can do it.

I've had several different Linksys routers (all with DDWRT), and my laptop hooked up directly to the FIOS, none of them could do a release. That is to say, we could send the command, but trying to switch to another device, the new device would not be able to pull an IP.

When I have to troubleshoot with FIOS I put the CrAptiontek in as the primary router. When we're done and my internet is working again I can go in and do a release on the CrAptiontek and switch back to my Linksys. I've done that many times, and it does work.

I suppose it could be a minor bug in DDWRT.... but then that doesn't explain why XP can't release it.

Have you done the release with anything other than the CrAptiontek?


----------



## SirWells

rocko said:


> You should be able to set your DLink to something like:
> IP address: 192.168.1.2
> DNS: 192.168.1.1
> Subnet: 255.255.255.0
> 
> Turn off DHCP on the DLink and you should be good to go. Remember to connect the DLink using a LAN port, not the WAN port. If you want to use the DLink for wireless access turn off the wireless on the Actiontec.


Ok, so I should redo the how to make the Actiontec a bridge via these instructions:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r17679150-Howto-make-ActionTec-MI424WR-a-network-bridge

Then change the IP address of my Dlink. I think the DNS and Subnet are the same. Do I then reboot both routers or just plug them together (via both LAN ports)? Do I plug my hardwire connections into the DLink then? I don't have to mess around with renew or release of IP addresses? I just don't want to have to call up Verizon again because my router locked me out again. That was not fun...

After what I did last time, I wish I had step by step instructions with accompanying graphics to match. LOL...


----------



## aaronwt

I find the easiest way to use my Actiontec and Dlink DGL4500 together is to have the Actiontec connected to the ONT. That way if there are ever any problems, it's already connected to the ONT since FIOS typically won't trobleshoot anything if you don't have the Actiontec connected.
Then connect the WAN port of the DLINK to a LAN port on the Actiontec.
Then assign a DMZ to the IP address that the Actiontec gives the DLINk. Mine is 192.168.1.2.
And then my 40 devices are all connected to my Dlink DGL4500. The only FIOS device connected to the Actiontec is my HD STB I use for HD VOD, but that is connected with MoCA over the coaxial cable.
My Dlink assigns IP addressess to everything but the FIOS STB. I've used an IP range of 221.214.xx.xxx for over 10 years, but it's also easier for me to remember.

I have zero problems this way. Never a need to reboot the Actiontec or the Dlink, even with three VUDU boxes using P2P constantly uploading 24/7. Zero problems gaming with my three Xbox 360s. Zero problems with my TiVos. Zero problems with me having over 1TB of traffic every month. No reboots needed. I get my full 50mbs down and 20mbs up. I've been using this setup for over a year now. Previously with a DGL4300. It has no problems.


----------



## rocko

SirWells said:


> Ok, so I should redo the how to make the Actiontec a bridge via these instructions:
> 
> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r17679150-Howto-make-ActionTec-MI424WR-a-network-bridge
> 
> Then change the IP address of my Dlink. I think the DNS and Subnet are the same. Do I then reboot both routers or just plug them together (via both LAN ports)? Do I plug my hardwire connections into the DLink then? I don't have to mess around with renew or release of IP addresses? I just don't want to have to call up Verizon again because my router locked me out again. That was not fun...
> 
> After what I did last time, I wish I had step by step instructions with accompanying graphics to match. LOL...


I don't remember doing anything special to configure the Actiontec for bridge mode. I would ignore that DSLReports article for now.

Otherwise, I have it set up like Aaronwt. Instead of creating a DMZ on the DLink I just turn off the firewall - the firewall is turned on on the Actiontec. I also connect LAN port to LAN port - I found problems connecting to the DLink WAN port - but whatever works. Actually, now that I look at it again I have both the WAN port *and *a LAN port connected


----------



## SirWells

rocko said:


> I don't remember doing anything special to configure the Actiontec for bridge mode. I would ignore that DSLReports article for now.
> 
> Otherwise, I have it set up like Aaronwt. Instead of creating a DMZ on the DLink I just turn off the firewall - the firewall is turned on on the Actiontec. I also connect LAN port to LAN port - I found problems connecting to the DLink WAN port - but whatever works. Actually, now that I look at it again I have both the WAN port *and *a LAN port connected


So I don't have to configure the Actiontec at all? Just turn off the firewall on the Dlink and connect Lan to Lan? Wouldn't this still leave the small Nat table?


----------



## pilotbob

SirWells said:


> So I don't have to configure the Actiontec at all? Just turn off the firewall on the Dlink and connect Lan to Lan? Wouldn't this still leave the small Nat table?


Yes. If the Actiontec is doing the NAT/DHCP. But, give it a try. I'm pretty sure Actiontec has an updated firmware since all this talk of their NAT table issues. Perhaps they resolved it. I know many people who love the actiontec and have no problems with it.

BOb


----------



## aaronwt

pilotbob said:


> Yes. If the Actiontec is doing the NAT/DHCP. But, give it a try. I'm pretty sure Actiontec has an updated firmware since all this talk of their NAT table issues. Perhaps they resolved it. I know many people who love the actiontec and have no problems with it.
> 
> BOb


I have yet to have any NAT problems. My only actiontec log entries are ip renewals. And my 3 VUDU boxes are running P2P 24/7. And even when I've used UTorrent and run it for several days straight, no problems. No need for a reboot.


----------



## jay_man2

richsadams said:


> Thanks very much for the report...very encouraging! :up:
> 
> How is your PQ? Are you seeing any issues?
> 
> Thanks again, enjoy and happy New Year!


Just an update to my earlier posts. After having FiOS a couple of days, I did notice the pixelation and audio dropouts, but only on ESPNHD with the TiVo.

I ordered the attenuator pack from Smarthome, and put a -20 attenuator on the TiVo coax. That dropped the signal strength and signal to noise ratio, and has solved that issue.

Very happy camper here. And I was able to disconnect Comcast right at the end of a billing period. Sweet.


----------



## richsadams

jay_man2 said:


> Just an update to my earlier posts.


Thanks for that! :up:


----------



## Jonathan_S

SeanC said:


> Ah, yes. I have seen this but only in one specific situation. Only their CrAptiontek (I think I'll copyright that ) can do it.
> 
> I've had several different Linksys routers (all with DDWRT), and my laptop hooked up directly to the FIOS, none of them could do a release. That is to say, we could send the command, but trying to switch to another device, the new device would not be able to pull an IP.
> 
> When I have to troubleshoot with FIOS I put the CrAptiontek in as the primary router. When we're done and my internet is working again I can go in and do a release on the CrAptiontek and switch back to my Linksys. I've done that many times, and it does work.
> 
> I suppose it could be a minor bug in DDWRT.... but then that doesn't explain why XP can't release it.
> 
> Have you done the release with anything other than the CrAptiontek?


I'm almost possitive that I did a release from XP before renewing on my linux box.

We were troubleshooting initial connection problems (which turned out to be a screw-up on their end, when they bumped my speed from 5/2 to 10/2 they apparently input my info on the wrong switch and effectively cut off my service) we'd eleminate both my normal linux box router and their actiontek (which I'd dug out of storage) and were using XPs built in DHCP to try to eliminate variables.

Once we got it working I'm 99% sure I dropped the DHCP lease from my end before hooking my linux router back up.


----------



## SirWells

One of my HD channels (HDNETMovies) stopped working last night on one of my Tivos, while it works on the other. Do the cards in that box need to be hit? *[EDIT: Two days later, the channel is now working. Who knows?]*

There are also channels that do not appear on Verizon's guide, yet the Tivo picks up, however, I receive no picture or sound from those channels, just a gray screen. Maybe these are stations that will be added in the future?


----------



## naclone

just wanted to share my recent FiOS experience...

was a bit of a nightmare initially as my scheduled install window came and went with no tech appearance until several hours later. When the guy showed up he didn't have the cable cards i ordered, nor did he have his Verizon ID so my building staff would not grant him access to the basement. so, a totally wasted day for me. but i rescheduled.

I was porting my phone number over from another carrier and verizon assured me that despite missing my scheduled installation, my existing services would not be interrupted. Well, they were.

I called back and insisted they expedite the install for an earlier time than I had rescheduled, which they did. Sort of.

When i called to confirm a few days later, they didn't have the new date in the system. just the original reschedule.

Finally got a new install date/time (yesterday) and the guys showed up on time and quickly blew through a triple play install in about 2 hours. 

despite telling the guy that i would not be using VOD or the verizon guide data and did not want to use the actiontec, they told me it wasn't optional and had to be installed.

the cable card process was a breeze and the only real hang up was fios not coming up as a provider for my zip code during guided setup so i just plugged in an alternate one.

so far so good with regard to pixelation (i haven't seen any despite running at about 36 SNR). I have some attenuators and supposedly there is a low-pass installed in the basement of the building. not sure if it is relevant or not but i noticed with RCN that the SNR was also around 36 and never had pixelation, so i am hoping that continues.

overall i'm very happy despite the initial frustration with scheduling. i've just found the NIM100 thread so i am interested in checking that out and possibly bypassing the actiontec in favor of my belkin n1.


----------



## killzone

naclone said:


> despite telling the guy that i would not be using VOD or the verizon guide data and did not want to use the actiontec, they told me it wasn't optional and had to be installed.
> 
> .


Since you mentioned triple play, I assume you are getting internet access..

Unless you have another MoCA device or router, you need the actiontec for internet service.


----------



## naclone

killzone said:


> Since you mentioned triple play, I assume you are getting internet access..
> 
> Unless you have another MoCA device or router, you need the actiontec for internet service.


well, i have a wireless router already so i was hoping they could use that instead since i just purchased it recently and have no need for MoCA.


----------



## webin

killzone said:


> Unless you have another MoCA device or router, you need the actiontec for internet service.


Not entirely accurate. Internet can also be sent from the ONT to the router via Ethernet. Though it sounds like in this situation, running an ethernet cable from the basement to the user would be problematic... making the existing coax (moca) the best option.

What you can do is use your new wireless router as a secondary router, so the coax connects to the actiontec, and then you connect your router to that and run your computers from your own router. You'll want to look around this forum a bit for that discussion.


----------



## naclone

didn't realize til i looked just now that the actiontec has both an ethernet cable running to it as well as coax. i thought it was just connected by ethernet.


----------



## socalclimber

I had FIOS Triple Play installed 2 weeks ago, and am happy with FIOS so far, and love the Internet speed 20/5 and HD Exteme TV. I don't mind the advertized price of $109 per month sans taxes(Claremont/Pomona, CA), except that I didn't know that the STB was NOT included in that price, nor have I gotten a bill yet, so I hope I'm not too surprised.

I also ordered a cablecard for my TivoHD. Installer came and did install, but did not bring any cablecards, nor did order say that I ordered a cablecard. And, he said that he never installs cablecards. 

I call Verizon back and stated my frustrations that cablecard was lost in the order and they installed an HD DVR STB instead. After reading up on S-cards vs M-cards, I knew I wanted an M-card for my TivoHD, and Verizon is charging $3.99 per month for those.

I happen to be sick today, so don't mind being around for cablecard install at 10-12noon. No one shows, then they call 12:30PM and say they will be late. I happen to ask to confirm with installer that he is coming with a cablecard, and this should be an M-card, right? He is clueless and says that his order says to install a STB. I say "No," this is a cablecard install for my TivoHD. He says he'll get back to me.

4pm, installer shows up, and says his supervisor will be here shortly with the cablecard. I am hopeful. Supervisor finally shows up at 5pm with cablecard and one of them reads off serial number, and I copy that down (just in case). He inserts card into TivoHD slot#1, and I immediatey see card pop up in tivo screen, BUT it's an S-card! 

I say, "that card is an S-card, and I ordered an M-card." 

The supervisor says, "What's the difference?"

I say, "M-cards can decode 2 channels, and S-cards only 1 at a time."

He says, "Oh, let me check on that."

He calls his supervisor (at regional yard) and he says they can't get the M-cards (or maybe they choose not to). I ask if they can special order one, as I'd prefer NOT to pay the extra $3.99 per month for a second S-card. He talks with 2nd supervisor, and confirms that they don't have the M-cards, and they CANNOT or Will Not order one for me. 

So, I'm frustrated with Verizon over this issue, and will likey just order 2x S-card and be done with it. I think Verizon is too big to give good service, or my service area is below par with rest of nation. 

Frankly, I'm surprised that they say they can't get me an M-card, and I live in a suberb of LA-one of the largest cities in the US-so you would think that Verizon would have M-cards here??


----------



## richsadams

IIRC only a couple of other folks here have been able to get "M" cable cards from VZ. Apparently a majority of the areas they serve only have "S" cable cards.


----------



## Gregor

"Losing" cablecards on an install order is pretty common. My entire installation order got cancelled and I ended up spending quite a bit of time on the phone to get the mess resolved.

Once the installers came, they did a great job, they were very meticulous about getting all 6 cards up and working.


----------



## naclone

my original order was 2 S-cards since i have an S3 as well as an SD STB for my Tivo DT. On a subsequent confirmation call the rep indicated my order was 2 digital adaptors and an SD STB. I told her that i ordered cable cards and not digital adaptors and she said they were the same thing. On a later call when i was going through a bunch of scheduling mess i again tried to confirm my ordered equipment and was told i had 2 digital adaptors and an HD DVR. i told her it was supposed to be just an SD STB with no DVR. and then asked what exactly a digital adaptor was. She said it is the smaller box that looks like a modem - with no LED display. I told her that was not at all what i needed and what i had ordered was 2 cable cards. and that i prefered that they were S-cards since i needed two anyways for the S3. long story longer, what showed up was 2 M-Cards and an HD STB. luckily the guys had an SD box on the truck since the HD boxes are more expensive. The guys opened up the M-cards and knew that they were new but i didn't get the sense they knew what they did differently.

But i feel terrible i have 2 M-cards in my S3 when there are TiVo HD folks out there who can't get their hands on them.


----------



## ah30k

S-Cards are pretty much gone from all the companies inventories. They are not made anymore so don't feel bad about.


----------



## lrhorer

Gregor said:


> "Losing" cablecards on an install order is pretty common. My entire installation order got cancelled and I ended up spending quite a bit of time on the phone to get the mess resolved.
> 
> Once the installers came, they did a great job, they were very meticulous about getting all 6 cards up and working.


Yeah, to be fair - although I'm not sure "fair" is really the best word to use, it has been my experience that utility companies in general, and CATV companies specifically have a very hard time getting orders correctly from the customer's telephone call or office visit to the installer's hands. It's like a game of "Rumors". One of the more common complaints from CATV technicians when I worked for the local cable company was the volume of trouble calls that turned out to be nothing more than installation errors. Of course, sometimes it was an error solely on the part of the installer, but far more often than should have been the case, the error was in the instructions / work order given to the installer. With CableCards you now not only have that chronic issue, but you have - inexcusably in my estimation - a lack of training and familiarity with which to deal on top of the ordinary breakdowns in the chain of command.


----------



## DeWitt

Having now gone though three Fios installs with various family members I can say that the ordering and billing systems are horrible. Best bet is always to call back a second time and re confirm everything.

On the other hand the technicians that have arrived to do the installs have all been very very good. No comparison to the typical hacks the cable companies use.


----------



## jws74

Here's a cablecard installation from Gresham Oregon... I've been a FiOS TV subscriber since the beginning of December, and got a TiVo HD XL for Christmas. We've also had an older LCD tv with cablecard slot that I thought would be nice to finally get up and running without having a STB... so...

After waiting 3 weeks for the install appointment (!), the installer showed up at around 11:00 this morning, and we promptly got the TiVo up and running - no problem at all. It just worked. 

The LG tv, however, wasn't as smooth. The phone people that the technician was talking to apparently didn't know what they were doing (sounded like all they did was verify the numbers, etc, and didn't pay any attention to the fact that there was no OOB data being received/sent).

After fighting with it for quite a while, I thanked the installer and let him leave. At least the TiVo was working, and I still had the second cablecard to work with as a "project".

I left the TV on for about an hour or so, and it started to report that it was getting OOB data. I called the FSC and had to convince them to just send a hit. (The term she used was 'warm reset' fwiw.) They sent the hit, and all of a sudden life was good and everything was working as intended.

I was really anticipating having a much longer appointment than that.

The technician said all he had were M-cards so there's another confirmation that that is all there is in Oregon.


----------



## richsadams

jws74 said:


> Here's a cablecard installation from Gresham Oregon... <snip>


Thanks for the post...all good info. :up:


----------



## socalclimber

ah30k said:


> S-Cards are pretty much gone from all the companies inventories. They are not made anymore so don't feel bad about.


_Except here in the outskirts of the small town of Los Angeles_ (pomona/claremont), where I await the install in 2 weeks of my two S-cards for my TivoHD. It's strange that some areas ONLY have M-cards, and my VZ local yard said they can't get them...just a tad fishy!

I just got my first VZ bill, and can't wait to return the HD DVR STB and avoid the $15.99/month rental charge.


----------



## slocko

So I can replace my 4 S cards with 2 M cards and save 3.99 times 2?


----------



## SeanC

Only if you have a TivoHD, the original Series 3 must use 2 cards whether they are M or S.


----------



## pilotbob

slocko said:


> So I can replace my 4 S cards with 2 M cards and save 3.99 times 2?


Sure if you want to pay the $40 truck roll price.

BOb


----------



## slocko

I'm on a year contract so in 5 months i break even. And honestly, I don't see myself ditching Verizon any time soon.



pilotbob said:


> Sure if you want to pay the $40 truck roll price.
> 
> BOb


----------



## pilotbob

slocko said:


> I'm on a year contract so in 5 months i break even. And honestly, I don't see myself ditching Verizon any time soon.


I'm waiting till I get a second TiVo. since I will have to pay the price anyway. I will have them bring 2 M cards at that time. Till then, I'm not worried.

BOb


----------



## rocko

richsadams said:


> Thanks for the post...all good info. :up:


C'mon, Rich. Do it. You know you want to


----------



## sardonux

I have the Verizon engineer here installing dual MCards in my S3 Tivo right now.

He said that here in the Metro Washington DC area, they don't carry the old SCards anymore. He also mentioned that quality/reliability of them is a big factor on avoiding using them. He is pretty good from a technical perspective, and has been very open to working with me on discovery to make sure everything is installed right.

It is a shame that [at least it sounds like] techs that come onsite vary in experience between geographic areas. I have had nothing but great success with FIOS here since almost 2 years ago when they started offering it and they trounce every other provider available on offerings.


----------



## slocko

I thought with MCards you only needed one in your Tivo?



sardonux said:


> I have the Verizon engineer here installing dual MCards in my S3 Tivo right now.
> 
> He said that here in the Metro Washington DC area, they don't carry the old SCards anymore. He also mentioned that quality/reliability of them is a big factor on avoiding using them. He is pretty good from a technical perspective, and has been very open to working with me on discovery to make sure everything is installed right.
> 
> It is a shame that [at least it sounds like] techs that come onsite vary in experience between geographic areas. I have had nothing but great success with FIOS here since almost 2 years ago when they started offering it and they trounce every other provider available on offerings.


----------



## wmcbrine

slocko said:


> I thought with MCards you only needed one in your Tivo?


Not in the original S3.  It was supposed to support multi-stream cards, but they weren't out yet when it was developed, and TiVo has seemingly abandoned their pledge to make them work. They only "work" in backwards-compatibility mode, as single-stream cards.

They work properly in the TiVo HD.


----------



## ah30k

wmcbrine said:


> ... and TiVo has seemingly abandoned their pledge to make them work.


Where did TiVo pledge to make them work?


----------



## wmcbrine

ah30k said:


> Where did TiVo pledge to make them work?


Right on the back of the unit, for one place.


----------



## slocko

ahhh, thxs for clearing that up.


----------



## ah30k

wmcbrine said:


> Right on the back of the unit, for one place.


This photo doesn't show the bottom wording, maybe you can tell me what it says since mine is not very accessible. While you are at it, what is your definition of a "pledge to get it working"? In my humble opinion someone would have to actually promise or pledge that they would actually do it.

Now if you are claiming they wanted to or hoped to or intended to or implied they would then you'll get no argument. Claiming they pledged to though is totally baseless and adds to the rash of posters on this forum putting words into TiVos mouth that were never actually said.

http://www.gizmolovers.com.nyud.net/Photos/Series3-Review/Medium/TiVo-Box-12.jpg


----------



## sinanju

ah30k said:


> This photo doesn't show the bottom wording


It isn't there. There was a pic from CES, but I don't know if any production units were built with that text on them. Perhaps because the CES text suggests M-Cards couldn't be used in the top slot.

It is, however, documented on page 102 of the original manual as a done deal. There is a caveat about M-Cards not being available at the time of the writing of the document but, as worded, doesn't mention anything about "intended" or "forthcoming" support:

"Note: A single multi-stream CableCARD decoder installed in the bottom slot on the back of the DVR enables dual tuner functionality."

That language hasn't been updated in the manual on TiVo's site: http://www.tivo.com/assets/kdb/TiVo Series3 HD Viewers Guide - Troubleshooting.pdf


----------



## ah30k

Sinanju,
All that you point to supports the claim that TiVo intended for it work. In fact, they thought that it would work until, well, it didn't. Such are the facts and not in dispute.

Now show me where TiVo pledged to make it work as our esteemed colleague claimed they did.


----------



## webin

ah30k said:


> Such are the facts and not in dispute.
> 
> Now show me where TiVo pledged to make it work as our esteemed colleague claimed they did.


This isn't really anything that needs to be argued about. We have the fact that Series3 doesn't work with M-Cards in dual-tuner mode, and it doesn't really have anything to do with FiOS, the topic of this thread.


----------



## sinanju

ah30k said:


> Now show me where TiVo pledged to make it work as our esteemed colleague claimed they did.


Why? I'm not the one claiming the made a pledge. Are you so worked up about this that you can't keep track of who claimed what?


----------



## ah30k

sinanju said:


> Why? I'm not the one claiming the made a pledge. Are you so worked up about this that you can't keep track of who claimed what?


When I asked wmcbrine to show me where TiVo pledged to make it work you chimed in with all of the references TiVo made that it would work (manual pages, web pages, etc) without caveating with 'intended' or 'forthcoming' wording. *Sure sounded to me like you agreed with wmcbrine and his claim.* Or maybe I misread your post.

And yes, I do get worked up over stupid claims that TiVo promised this or pledged this that are totally baseless. Then others chime in and agree with the OP which just gets me even more frustrated. I should let irresponsible comments go without comment but can't seem to do that.


----------



## sinanju

ah30k said:


> When I asked wmcbrine to show me where TiVo pledged to make it work you chimed in with all of the references TiVo made that it would work (manual pages, web pages, etc) without caveating with 'intended' or 'forthcoming' wording. *Sure sounded to me like you agreed with wmcbrine and his claim.* Or maybe I misread your post.
> 
> And yes, I do get worked up over stupid claims that TiVo promised this or pledged this that are totally baseless. Then others chime in and agree with the OP which just gets me even more frustrated. I should let irresponsible comments go without comment but can't seem to do that.


Apparently, you got so worked up you missed the part where I actually mentioned that wmcbrine was incorrect about the labeling on the production S3 vs the CES S3, *contradicting wmcbrine and his claim*.

I was simply presenting facts. Apparently you think the facts have an anti-TiVo bias. Take a deep breath and get a grip.


----------



## webin

Boys. You have a thread to argue about the MCards. Stop doing it here, please. Or better yet, PM each other. Or better still, drop it. No one cares.

//gets out the fire hose


----------



## Timber

-=Tim=-


----------



## drew7777

I've had Fios for five weeks now and have been a Tivo customer for 5+ years. So far I love Fios for their picture quality and internet speed. However, customer service so far has been a nightmare. We tried their DVR and have deemed it inadequate.

I am about to order a Tivo HD but am having problems getting Verizon to ship me cable cards. They are telling me they "can't" ship them and an installer must bring them to me for $79.99. So, who do I need to speak with to have them ship me cable cards so I can install them myself?

Thank you,
-Drew


----------



## TheBar1

drew7777 said:


> So, who do I need to speak with to have them ship me cable cards so I can install them myself?


Drew - I'm pretty sure you are out of luck on that truckroll fee that Verizon charges for CC installs. Do yourself a favor, though, and ask if the Tech can bring you an M-Card as opposed to two S-Cards. The monthly fee is identical, so you could at least save a little on that.

I've observed increasingly positive (but still mixed) results with folks getting the M-Cards from Verizon now. As a two S-Card user, the only thing that is holding me back from an M-Card order is that expensive truckroll fee. Oh well!

Good luck!


----------



## richsadams

rocko said:


> C'mon, Rich. Do it. You know you want to


Okay, okay. Not because of peer pressure mind you (well, maybe a little  ). Comcast just had a rate increase and pushed our monthly over $200.  Enough! I'm calling the tech I originally talked to (the one that was aware that TiVo's in the area needed a little attenuation on a certain frequency/band) and set up an appointment. Hope all goes well...wish me luck!


----------



## David Platt

richsadams said:


> Okay, okay. Not because of peer pressure mind you (well, maybe a little  ). Comcast just had a rate increase and pushed our monthly over $200.  Enough! I'm calling the tech I originally talked to (the one that was aware that TiVo's in the area needed a little attenuation on a certain frequency/band) and set up an appointment. Hope all goes well...wish me luck!


Yay!! Finally!!


----------



## richsadams

David Platt said:


> Yay!! Finally!!


Be nice...I know where you live...well, sort of.


----------



## webin

'Bout dern time, Rich!


----------



## richsadams

webin said:


> 'Bout dern time, Rich!


Sigh.


----------



## rocko

Attaboy. Welcome to the dark side 

Seriously, I doubt you'll regret it.


----------



## slimjim867

Just checking.
Am I correct in assuming that as of today 2/5/09,
that the S3 still does not provide dual tuner functionality with one M card?


----------



## richsadams

slimjim867 said:


> Just checking.
> Am I correct in assuming that as of today 2/5/09,
> that the S3 still does not provide dual tuner functionality with one M card?


That is correct. With regard to cable cards, TiVo Series3's still require two "S" or two "M" cable cards. Money says single "M" card functionality with Series3's will likely never happen.


----------



## adamt56

How is the picture quality when viewed through the TiVoHD box when compared to the Verizon provided STB ?


----------



## jay_man2

adamt56 said:


> How is the picture quality when viewed through the TiVoHD box when compared to the Verizon provided STB ?


With my S3, I think the picture is just a tad better than it is with the FiOS STB. But both are head and shoulders above what I got with Comcast.


----------



## drew7777

Verizon is supposed to come today to delivery my cable card(s). I have a TivoHD and I told the phone rep from Verizon that I needed either two S cards or just one M card. Am I correct in saying that? Will I be able to utilize the dual tuner functionality with just one M card?

I'm asking as I saw a post above regarding M card in a series3 Tivo.

Thanks!
-Drew


----------



## pilotbob

drew7777 said:


> Am I correct in saying that? Will I be able to utilize the dual tuner functionality with just one M card?


Yes with a TivoHD that is correct.

BOb


----------



## drew7777

Ahhh, Tivo, I love you!

The Fios tech showed up, had Maryland cable cards instead of Virginia ones? At any rate, he went to back to the office, swapped them, installed them, and I'm now back to normal with my Tivo.

The install was pretty straight forward; we followed the directions provided by Tivo and there were no hiccups (I had already downloaded program information and updated to the newest version of their software).

Anyone need an 80-hour Series2 Dual Tuner?

Thanks again everyone!
-Drew


----------



## drew7777

Cable cards are installed and working, but I have a couple of questions about things to expect.

1 - I'm getting a full gray screen for a second+ when switching channels. Is this typical?

2 - I tried leaving the Tivo set to Native resolution but when switching between channels and from channels to the Tivo Now Playing screen it would drop the signal and cause the TV (Panasonic TH-42PZ85U connected via HDMI) to display the input# and a black screen. I decided I would set the video format of the TivoHD to 1080i fixed and this has fixed that issue. Should I leave it at 1080i - will it cause problems on SD/ED stations? Is there any way around this - maybe using composite cables? What is recommended.

Thanks again!
-Drew


----------



## bkdtv

drew7777 said:


> Cable cards are installed and working, but I have a couple of questions about things to expect.
> 
> 1 - I'm getting a full gray screen for a second+ when switching channels. Is this typical?


TiVo improved channel changing speed with the latest software. If you just installed your TiVo, it will still have the old software.

Every TiVo ships with the relatively slow v8.1.7 software from early 2007. Furthermore, all guide databases must be indexed in the background for the first ~48 hours after initial setup. The background indexing noticeably slows responsiveness during that period. Most users receive an update to the latest software (now 11.0) after about a week, and guide data must be re-indexed for another ~48 afters after that update, temporarily slowing responsiveness again. The TivoHD does not reach full responsiveness until 48-72 hours after the v11.0 install.

You can usually speed the software update process by forcing a few connections via Settings -> Phone & Network -> Connect to TiVo Service. Once your Phone & Network screen says "Pending Reboot," that means a software update is available for install. Normally, the TiVo would just reboot during the early morning hours to install the update, but you make that happen immediately by selecting Settings -> Restart or Reset System -> Restart the TivoHD. Software updates can take up to an hour to install.



drew7777 said:


> 2 - I tried leaving the Tivo set to Native resolution but when switching between channels and from channels to the Tivo Now Playing screen it would drop the signal and cause the TV (Panasonic TH-42PZ85U connected via HDMI) to display the input# and a black screen. I decided I would set the video format of the TivoHD to 1080i fixed and this has fixed that issue. Should I leave it at 1080i - will it cause problems on SD/ED stations? Is there any way around this - maybe using composite cables? What is recommended.


If you use a native or hybrid output mode, the TiVo will change output resolutions on the fly, depending on the channel you are on. Displays do not change resolutions instantly; some can do it in 1-2 seconds and others can take 5-6 seconds.

If you used a fixed mode, all channels are converted to the same resolution for display, so you eliminate the resolution switching. If you do that, you are using the TiVo to process/upscale your SD channels rather than your TV.

If you are new to the TivoHD, be sure to see my tips post *right here*.


----------



## mae

richsadams said:


> Okay, okay. Not because of peer pressure mind you (well, maybe a little  ). Comcast just had a rate increase and pushed our monthly over $200.  Enough! I'm calling the tech I originally talked to (the one that was aware that TiVo's in the area needed a little attenuation on a certain frequency/band) and set up an appointment. Hope all goes well...wish me luck!


Rich,

How did it go? Now the free (crummy) DVR promotion is over and a $150 rebate promo is on, I'm about to pull the trigger. After (of course) my daughter puts our name in for HER $150 promo!

I have to admit the with everything (currently) working with Comcast and the pixelation issues, I am a little scared. That's why I'm wondering how your switch went.

Thanks.

Mark


----------



## richsadams

mae said:


> Rich,
> 
> How did it go? Now the free (crummy) DVR promotion is over and a $150 rebate promo is on, I'm about to pull the trigger. After (of course) my daughter puts our name in for HER $150 promo!
> 
> I have to admit the with everything (currently) working with Comcast and the pixelation issues, I am a little scared. That's why I'm wondering how your switch went.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Mark


Hey Mark...hasn't happened just yet. I've been in and out of town and only just now has the dust settled enough for me to make an appointment. Wish I had good news for you. When I looked last week the "free" DVR for six months was still good...but I just found the $150 promo. That sounds much better (we don't need the VZ DVR of course).

I'm still wary about the pixelation issue but am dying for the improved PQ and big pipe broadband. Plus the more-or-less very same programming we have w/Comcast at $206 is about $120 from VZ...at least for the first year. Makes it almost a no-brainer!


----------



## mae

richsadams said:


> Hey Mark...hasn't happened just yet. I've been in and out of town and only just now has the dust settled enough for me to make an appointment. Wish I had good news for you. When I looked last week the "free" DVR for six months was still good...but I just found the $150 promo. That sounds much better (we don't need the VZ DVR of course).
> 
> I'm still wary about the pixelation issue but am dying for the improved PQ and big pipe broadband. Plus the more-or-less very same programming we have w/Comcast at $206 is about $120 from VZ...at least for the first year. Makes it almost a no-brainer!


Rich,

It will be about $85/month cheaper for me over the current Comcast/Verizon bills. Even more when the 6 month promo I begged from Comcast is over in 3 months!

If you haven't ordered yet, make sure some family or friend will get the $50 per service ($150) referral bonus for you. There is a web site they use to submit your name and if you sign up in 30 days, they get the credit. My daughter called me during the Oscars last night when she saw a commercial for the new promo. SHE can't wait for me to switch.

Looks like we'll be on about the same schedule.

Mark


----------



## richsadams

mae said:


> If you haven't ordered yet, make sure some family or friend will get the $50 per service ($150) referral bonus for you. There is a web site they use to submit your name and if you sign up in 30 days, they get the credit.


Ah, I hadn't gotten to the "$150 fine print" yet. I don't know of anyone that has FIOS at the moment.  I'll have to think about that. Anyway, we can compare notes later! :up:


----------



## webin

richsadams said:


> Ah, I hadn't gotten to the "$150 fine print" yet. I don't know of anyone that has FIOS at the moment.  I'll have to think about that. Anyway, we can compare notes later! :up:


/hums to himself....


----------



## mae

richsadams said:


> Ah, I hadn't gotten to the "$150 fine print" yet. I don't know of anyone that has FIOS at the moment.  I'll have to think about that. Anyway, we can compare notes later! :up:


Rich,

They are different issues. The referral offer is a standing one for current subscribers, unrelated to the "promo of the month" for new subscribers.

As for the fine print on the current "new subscribers $150) promo", I froze the screen on the commercial last night, and it seems to be a payoff in debit cards over time. I haven't had a chance to either call them or look at the web site.

Mark


----------



## richsadams

mae said:


> Rich,
> 
> They are different issues. The referral offer is a standing one for current subscribers, unrelated to the "promo of the month" for new subscribers.
> 
> As for the fine print on the current "new subscribers $150) promo", I froze the screen on the commercial last night, and it seems to be a payoff in debit cards over time. I haven't had a chance to either call them or look at the web site.
> 
> Mark


Thanks for that Mark...I will take a moment today to perform some due diligence and see what turns up. Debit cards spend just about as good as cash most places so I'm in if that's the case. Report back soon.

Webin...will _you_ be my friend?


----------



## David Platt

richsadams said:


> Webin...will _you_ be my friend?


Damn. Always a day late and $50 short. I was hoping I could be your friend.


----------



## richsadams

David Platt said:


> Damn. Always a day late and $50 short. I was hoping I could be your friend.


D'oh!


----------



## wmcbrine

I'm a friend to anyone who wants to sign up with Fios.


----------



## webin

Heya Rich, thanks for the friend invite... but go ahead and take one of the other guys this time. I've got too much going on this week to deal with a VZ referral and the potential billing issues that might ensue. Oh how I wish that weren't true :-(


----------



## mae

richsadams said:


> Thanks for that Mark...I will take a moment today to perform some due diligence and see what turns up. Debit cards spend just about as good as cash most places so I'm in if that's the case. Report back soon.
> 
> Webin...will _you_ be my friend?


Rich,

Looks like I made my move first...signed up today with an install set for 3/25.

I found out a few interesting things that may be of use to you.

1) The 800(etc) numbers on the ads lead to various call centers where folks don't seem to know much. It turns out VZ opened a store front less than 2 miles away. They do demos but again, had never heard of a cablecard. They exist as a pickup/exchange/drop-off point for boxes. They did give me a number with a local area code that went to a call center where people actually knew things!!!! They knew they had M cards and what a TiVo is. They knew about various internet options and routers.

2) They had various additional deals (over and above the $150 debit card) like a $30 credit and an HD box free for a year. They were able to do a little negotiation. They also understood the referral credit for my daughter.

So, you should try and find an equivalent in your area to bypass the national call centers. If you PM me, I'll give you the local number here and you can ask them.

I'm a little concerned about some 28 year old RG59 that is now hidden, but I'm told that it "should" be OK for the TV and the MoCA due to the usually troubling high signal levels. I've bought a variable attenuator to deal with any issues for the TiVo.

I'll post here on the installation experience in two weeks.

Mark


----------



## richsadams

Many tanks Mark. Sent a P.M.


----------



## johncoyne

I see that you mentioned M cards. Are these now available from Verizon? Also, what's the benefit of the M card over the two cards I use now (I do know you need only one M card, and should (?) then save a bit of money on the card "rental") but are M cards better tech wise? Thanks.
John, NY


----------



## richsadams

johncoyne said:


> I see that you mentioned M cards. Are these now available from Verizon? Also, what's the benefit of the M card over the two cards I use now (I do know you need only one M card, and should (?) then save a bit of money on the card "rental") but are M cards better tech wise? Thanks.
> John, NY


TiVo Series3's require two cable cards, either "S" or "M". TiVo HD/HDXL's can use a single "M", multi-stream or two "S", single-stream cable cards. Initially VZ and other cableco's only offered "S" cable cards. Many posts are now indicating that VZ is starting to deliver "M" cable cards depending on the geographical area.

"M" cards can decode up to six channels simultaneously. Of course TiVo is only capable of processing two. "S" cards only decode one video stream. The setup process takes a little longer with "S" cards because they both have to be activated/paired separately (slot 0 first, then slot 1). That said AFAIK there's no technical advantage to having an "M" card other than removing one failure point. (But if there is I'd also like to know what it might be).

As you mentioned, the only advantage to using one "M" over two "S" cable cards that I'm aware of is the possible reduction in cost to the final user. Some companies charge per card. Sometimes the first card is free, then from as little as $1.50 to $7.00 for each additional card.


----------



## webin

johncoyne said:


> what's the benefit of the M card over the two cards I use now (I do know you need only one M card, and should (?) then save a bit of money on the card "rental") but are M cards better tech wise? Thanks.
> John, NY


Rich outlined the important stuff. From your post, it sounds like you are wondering if you should swap your 2x S-Cards for 1x M-Card.. while you would save $3.99 per month, Verizon will most likely charge you $80 for a "truck roll" to come out and install the M-Card, so if you currently have S-Cards, it'd take 20 months to see any financial benefit from the single M-Card.


----------



## Gregor

webin said:


> Rich outlined the important stuff. From your post, it sounds like you are wondering if you should swap your 2x S-Cards for 1x M-Card.. while you would save $3.99 per month, Verizon will most likely charge you $80 for a "truck roll" to come out and install the M-Card, so if you currently have S-Cards, it'd take 20 months to see any financial benefit from the single M-Card.


The other reason I don't do it is because it's working right and I don't want to go through install hell again.


----------



## richsadams

Gregor said:


> The other reason I don't do it is because it's working right and I don't want to go through install hell again.


Probably the best reason of all! :up:


----------



## TeamW

I ordered a multi-stream card and the guy showed up with a single stream card. I eventually made them come back and install a multi-stream card at their expense, but not without taking a lot of flack from their tech. support. I heard various excuses like: 

"We don't have those right now."

"Those are the old ones and they are out of stock."

and a few other things of similar credibility. 

I pushed back on that nonsense. Finally I got through to a supervisor who let me know this: in the Verizon equipment inventory system - they have one SKU - for "CableCard" they don't have a separate entry for multi-stream cards vs. single stream cards. This is why my original order was screwed up and why you may still have trouble getting them to install a M-Card.

The supervisor put in all kinds of notes in capital letters on my work order to tell the technician he needed to bring out a M-Card rather than an S-Card. That did work.

So don't take any B.S. - they do indeed support and stock multi-stream cable cards, they just don't have any way to enter a request for an M-Card into their system for you. 

So ask for what you need and make them give it to you. While I completely understand the desire to not mess with a 2 card system if it is working right - for new installs you should make them give you an M-Card, as it is stupid to pay them for two cards when you only need one. 

I am in the Wash. DC metro area and got an M-Card three weeks ago. Don't let them jerk you around!


----------



## cnsteph

Okay, I read through the first 8 pages of this thread then my adhd kicked in. So whats the verdict: can Verizon FiOS and Tivo HD work well together? 
Which Tivo should I get?
What equipment do I need (saw a few posts about the Multi cable card)? 
Can someone do a summary for me, please?


----------



## sinanju

cnsteph said:


> Okay, I read through the first 8 pages of this thread then my adhd kicked in. So whats the verdict: can Verizon FiOS and Tivo HD work well together?


Usually.



cnsteph said:


> Which Tivo should I get?


Whichever suits your requirements and budget. The question is unrelated to FiOS -- assuming we're talking about the TiVo HD vs HD XL... that is the forum we're in. A Series 2 Dual Tuner would be a different story.



cnsteph said:


> What equipment do I need (saw a few posts about the Multi cable card)?
> Can someone do a summary for me, please?


A TiVo HD will require one multistream CableCARD or two single stream cards. Since Verizon charges $3.99 each for them, you'll want to try to get the former.


----------



## innocentfreak

I have a quick question. My friend is looking to switch to Fios from Directv and as a result got me looking into it. One thing that confused me is when I looked on the Verizon site for price options I noticed they mentioned Tuning Adaptors for 4.99 but no option for cable cards only. 

Is Fios now requiring tuning adaptors to get all the channels similar to how it appears other companies are requiring it? Or is this just for analog equipment?


----------



## wmcbrine

Verizon does not have tuning adaptors. What you're seeing is the "digital adaptor", which is simply a low-end cable box, with no guide or VOD. (The only on-screen displays are the channel number and the debugging menus.) They call it an adaptor because it provides analog-equivalent functionality, I guess, and they were handing them out for free to customers who signed up back when Fios offered analog service.

And no, they don't have CableCards on their site. You can only order them by phone. It sucks. I might even call it sleazy. But I wouldn't let it deter me from signing up.


----------



## innocentfreak

wmcbrine said:


> And no, they don't have CableCards on their site. You can only order them by phone. It sucks. I might even call it sleazy. But I wouldn't let it deter me from signing up.


Of course in this case it costs you $60 dollars since you lose the discount for ordering online.


----------



## sinanju

innocentfreak said:


> Of course in this case it costs you $60 dollars since you lose the discount for ordering online.


You can negotiate that back. In fact, you can negotiate the price of the cards, too. Since any "deal closer" agreements can only be posted to your bill in $10 increments, they're actually paying me to take the cards.


----------



## sweez

I'm thinking of jumping in with a Tivo HD and FIOS. I live in NYC/Manhattan and FIOS just came to my area. Any successful and hassle-free installations with Mcards in the NYC area? 

I can wait for the installation kinks to be worked out. I dont want to deal with clueless technicians and long customer support calls to order Mcards.


----------



## NYHeel

innocentfreak said:


> Of course in this case it costs you $60 dollars since you lose the discount for ordering online.


What I did was order online with set top boxes and then called to change the order to cable cards. The order is currently showing cablecards. I'll let you know how it goes after next Friday when I have my installation. I already have Fios internet. I didn't try to negotiate anything extra but I did get a $30 first month statement credit which was part of the deal. Could be only for current Fios internet customers.


----------



## innocentfreak

NYHeel said:


> What I did was order online with set top boxes and then called to change the order to cable cards. The order is currently showing cablecards. I'll let you know how it goes after next Friday when I have my installation. I already have Fios internet. I didn't try to negotiate anything extra but I did get a $30 first month statement credit which was part of the deal. Could be only for current Fios internet customers.


yeah I see the 150 cash back and $30 off along with the $5 a month deal when I check my bundle options. Ugh this decision is driving me nuts. Its funny I went through this same thing when I switched to DTV. I found the 100 hour DTivos at the time for clearance at Sound Advice. I bought them and jumped from cable with series 2 to DTV. Of course it was a bigger jump 80 hours to 100 and single tuner to dual tuners. Now the jump isn't so big.

- Decrease in space since all of my Dtivos have 500gb drives and I only record SD. Obviously I could upgrade the drives but I would void warranty versus DTV where I had the protection plan for the two times I couldn't repair the units.
-Tivo fees will result in either no change in what I pay now or actually cost more since I pay 85 and 150 versus 175 or so plus Tivo subscriptions.
-Spoiled by having 4 boxes I can't imagine dropping to less.
-Need to build a server or buy one, which I need to do anyway for backups, to store Tivo shows freeing up space without needing to upgrade.
-initial cost of Tivos when I may get an even better deal through DTV when the new Tivos come out, of course many of the same issues apply since no details yet on the new box. Also I wouldn't have to upgrade all at once.
-the biggest probably I don't even have a HD set.


----------



## mae

I had my install yesterday, and it went very well.

Installation window was 8-12, and tech called about 8:45 and said he would be out at about 9:30. Arrived on that schedule, did a walk through of the job (phone switch from copper, CableCard for TiVo, one HD box, 1 SD box, 2 digital adapters, and their router). The tech had 11 years with VZ, and has been doing FIOS installs since the rollout. He had an M-Card and said that is all he has seen for the past few months. He installed the ONT, provisioned it, and connected it to the phone NID and the existing COAX coming from the Comcast grounding block. The main feed went to a 2 GHz 4-way splitter which he left in place. He had an automated field strength meter that he used to test all 4 runs and found them in spec, even the 28 year old RG59 run to the bedroom. He connected up the router and STBs, attached his laptop to the router and activated the boxes and CableCard. The CableCard activation screen gave him a countdown of about 15 minutes and at the end, we checked the TiVo and all channels (SD, HD, Premium) were coming in fine. The wireless adapter found the new router, I re-ran guided set up and after another 45 minutes or so everything was set, including changes to the Season Passes.

So far, no pixelation, and signal strengths on the TiVo range from 87 to 100 percent, with SNRs running from 35 to 37 db. The lower signal strengths can be attributed to the 4-way split in the basement and the 2-way at the TV. The ONT was newer model, an Alcatel (a little smaller than others I've seen), which the tech said was using a newer fiber protocol (for greater future bandwidth). This may also have had some effect on the overload issue. My variable attenuator is still in the package.

One final note on the router. It is an Actiontec, rev D which was flashed with the newest firmware by the installer. In some parts of the country, they are using either the Rev E or a Westell. Despite all of the issues I read about online, it seems fine and gives as good a signal around the house as my Linksys with a gain antenna. So at least for now, I'm using it for wireless. I have a NIM 100 from E-Bay, and at some point I'll try replacing the TiVo's wireless adapter.

So the fears about OCD installers wanting to rewire everything, the Actiontech router and pixelation were (so far at least) unfounded. I'll wait a few more days to be sure everything is stable, and head over to "Comcast Town" to turn in my equipment and tell them I'm moving out.

OK Rich, you're next!


----------



## DCIFRTHS

mae said:


> ... He installed the ONT, The ONT was newer model, an Alcatel (a little smaller than others I've seen), which the tech said was using a newer fiber protocol (for greater future bandwidth). This may also have had some effect on the overload issue. My variable attenuator is still in the package. ...


Does this ONT also have an Ethernet jack if you didn't want to use MoCA for the internet?

Thanks!


----------



## dresden69

DCIFRTHS said:


> Does this ONT also have an Ethernet jack if you didn't want to use MoCA for the internet?
> 
> Thanks!


Yes... the ONT has an Ethernet port on it, you have to ask the tech to run Ethernet cable and not use Coax... a lot of techs are using Coax because it eases their install times... and when you are given 4 or 5 jobs a day... any 'shortcuts' are taken... So if you want Ethernet... make sure you ask for it...

Or you could take your Actiontec (Or Westtell in the West) and bridge it... there is an awesome document on how to do it on another website called dslreports.com under the FIOS section. This way you could use any router you wanted, just passing the ip address through the actiontec or westtell...


----------



## DCIFRTHS

dresden69 said:


> Yes... the ONT has an Ethernet port on it, you have to ask the tech to run Ethernet cable and not use Coax... a lot of techs are using Coax because it eases their install times... and when you are given 4 or 5 jobs a day... any 'shortcuts' are taken... So if you want Ethernet... make sure you ask for it...
> 
> Or you could take your Actiontec (Or Westtell in the West) and bridge it... there is an awesome document on how to do it on another website called dslreports.com under the FIOS section. This way you could use any router you wanted, just passing the ip address through the actiontec or westtell...


I already have the Ethernet in place  I'm just waiting for Verizon to light up the building. Do you have the same ONT as mae?

Edit: My main concern is that they don't remove the Ethernet port form the newer ONTs. If mae would confirm this for me, I would appreciate it.


----------



## dresden69

DCIFRTHS said:


> I already have the Ethernet in place  I'm just waiting for Verizon to light up the building. Do you have the same ONT as mae?
> 
> Edit: My main concern is that they don't remove the Ethernet port form the newer ONTs. If mae would confirm this for me, I would appreciate it.


I have heard nothing about redesigning the ONT... I think that Verizon has finally gotten a stable ONT, that redesigning it now, would be a bad move... and I believe I have a 612 on the side of my house...

P.S - The tech is going to love that you have the Ethernet in place...


----------



## richsadams

mae said:


> OK Rich, you're next!


D'oh! The pressure!


----------



## richsadams

dresden69 said:


> ... there is an awesome document on how to do it on another website called dslreports.com under the FIOS section.


I took a quick look and didn't find the article. Do you happen to have a link? TIA!


----------



## DCIFRTHS

dresden69 said:


> I have heard nothing about redesigning the ONT... I think that Verizon has finally gotten a stable ONT, that redesigning it now, would be a bad move... and I believe I have a 612 on the side of my house...
> 
> P.S - The tech is going to love that you have the Ethernet in place...


Most of the Verizon techs I have spoken to are very cool. Even the contractors that wired part of my building are more than willing to share information. I'm pretty excited about the install...

I ran a conduit through my ceiling for the DC power cable too (there's no AC outlet in my closet). 

Love that fiber


----------



## mae

DCIFRTHS said:


> Does this ONT also have an Ethernet jack if you didn't want to use MoCA for the internet?
> 
> Thanks!


Yes, but it has to be provisioned by Verizon to work.


----------



## mae

dresden69 said:


> and when you are given 4 or 5 jobs a day... any 'shortcuts' are taken... So if you want Ethernet... make sure you ask for it...


The tech who did my install had only my house. He was heading to a trouble call when he finished up.


----------



## mae

dresden69 said:


> I have heard nothing about redesigning the ONT... I think that Verizon has finally gotten a stable ONT, that redesigning it now, would be a bad move... and I believe I have a 612 on the side of my house...
> 
> P.S - The tech is going to love that you have the Ethernet in place...


It is an Alcatel 211-G. It is a little smaller and in a grey (not white) case, I guess to match the rest of the telco's equipment. Tech said it used GPON instead of BPON as the protocol.


----------



## mae

richsadams said:


> D'oh! The pressure!


Rich,

No pressure, you _KNOW_ you want it!

Mark


----------



## mae

richsadams said:


> I took a quick look and didn't find the article. Do you happen to have a link? TIA!


http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19559467?hilite=bridging+fios

I think you guys in the Northwest are getting Westell's, but the same instructions should work.


----------



## richsadams

mae said:


> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19559467?hilite=bridging+fios
> 
> I think you guys in the Northwest are getting Westell's, but the same instructions should work.


:up: :up: :up:


----------



## MookieDoug

After 2 years of DirecTV, I recently moved to a house that can get FIOS, so I signed up. Since the Tivo I had was a DTV Tivo, and wouldn't work on FIOS, and the multi-room DVR set up sounded nice, I decided to give the FIOS DVR a shot. It only took about 30 minutes before I realized this was a mistake, and about 2 days before I had a new Tivo HD being sent to me. So first, for anyone who has Tivo and is even thinking of going to the FIOS dvr, GO BACK! There are numerous reasons why it's so much worse, and this isn't the forum for that. 

My tech roll is tomorrow morning for the CC install. I've got the Tivo box already sent thru its guided setup, but now I guess I need to make sure I have version 11.x or else the M-card won't work. At least that's what I've gotten from this thread. 

I'm a little worried about pixellation as well. After the FIOS tv install, we noticed that about half of our premium movie channels were pixellated. After a call, they came out, tested the line a million times, then gave me a new FIOS box, and that fixed the problem. Hopefully the Tivo won't bring it back.


----------



## wkearney99

MookieDoug said:


> So first, for anyone who has Tivo and is even thinking of going to the FIOS dvr, GO BACK!


I also had DirecTV and left it because they abandoned Tivo-based DVRs. Now that I've had the combined FIOS TV/Internet/Phone package I have no desire to go back to paying DirecTV more... while getting less. I also succeeded in getting over a dozen friends and neighbors to drop DirecTV as well.

I agree, the Verizon supplied DVR is HORRIBLE.

I've had no pixelization troubles with FIOS and Tivo HD units, both with S cards and a single M card. This across all channels, SD, HD and premiums.


----------



## MookieDoug

MookieDoug said:


> My tech roll is tomorrow morning for the CC install. I've got the Tivo box already sent thru its guided setup, but now I guess I need to make sure I have version 11.x or else the M-card won't work. At least that's what I've gotten from this thread.


FIOS tech arrived at 8:50 am, and the first thing he told me was, "Oh, this is a Tivo cable card install? I've never done one of those before." I told him I have the directions right here for him, and we'd walk through it together. "Good", he said. "I've only done one other one of these anyway." I thought this was going to be trouble, but he (Andy) was actually quite happy for any help I could provide. He had the 1 M-card (he said he was told in the work order from Verizon that he needed 2, but a guy in the shop told him, "no, just use 1 M-card"), so we wrote down the CC #, put it in, it brought up the tech help screen. He wrote down all those figures, powered up his laptop, plugged them in, 15 minutes later the TV was working. I don't have HD (yet), but all channels were working on both tuners.

I do have gray screens for 1/2 second when i change channels or go to Tivo Central, but I only updated to version 11.x last night, so I'm hoping what I read on here, that it'll go away in 48-72 hours is correct.

Sorry for the long post, just wanted to pass along a success story!


----------



## pieler8

The grey screens definitely go away after 48-72 hours. I had the fios install done thursday of last week, they were gone by the weekend.


----------



## exdishguy

pieler8 said:


> The grey screens definitely go away after 48-72 hours. I had the fios install done thursday of last week, they were gone by the weekend.


Can the guys that just got FiOS TV installed tell us what kind of ONT they used? Also, keep us updated on the pixelization issues - good or bad. I'm particularily interested in good installs and trying to find some common denominator as to Tivo works fine in your market vs. others that have had persistent issues.


----------



## reubanks

exdishguy said:


> Can the guys that just got FiOS TV installed tell us what kind of ONT they used? Also, keep us updated on the pixelization issues - good or bad. I'm particularily interested in good installs and trying to find some common denominator as to Tivo works fine in your market vs. others that have had persistent issues.


I have a Motorola ONT1000 and am having no pixelization problems on either the Tivo HD or HDXL.


----------



## aldiesel

exdishguy said:


> Can the guys that just got FiOS TV installed tell us what kind of ONT they used? Also, keep us updated on the pixelization issues - good or bad. I'm particularily interested in good installs and trying to find some common denominator as to Tivo works fine in your market vs. others that have had persistent issues.


Where do you find the model number for your ONT? I had a recent install and the ONT is inside my garage and my neighbor's is on the outside of his house. They are different (obviously). I am getting pixellation on all the HD locals in the 500 range. I am waiting for a low pass filter to arrive that I ordered to see if that helps. Attenuating did not help. I did get the SNR down to 31/32 but to no avail the locals are horrible.


----------



## exdishguy

aldiesel said:


> Where do you find the model number for your ONT? I had a recent install and the ONT is inside my garage and my neighbor's is on the outside of his house. They are different (obviously). I am getting pixellation on all the HD locals in the 500 range. I am waiting for a low pass filter to arrive that I ordered to see if that helps. Attenuating did not help. I did get the SNR down to 31/32 but to no avail the locals are horrible.


Where are you located? I hate to tell you but your situation sounds much like mine....and I've been fighting this for over 6 months.

As far the ONT type, you can probably call the FSC and they should be able to tell you the model. I've never looked carefully enough at mine to tell which Motorola model is installed. I assume you do have a Motorola ONT though?


----------



## aldiesel

I am in Southern New Jersey outside of Philadelphia.



exdishguy said:


> Where are you located? I hate to tell you but your situation sounds much like mine....and I've been fighting this for over 6 months.
> 
> As far the ONT type, you can probably call the FSC and they should be able to tell you the model. I've never looked carefully enough at mine to tell which Motorola model is installed. I assume you do have a Motorola ONT though?


----------



## SWG255

I had FIOS hi-def TV installed back on March 20th, and I have had no pixelization issues on SD or HD channels with my Tivo HD XL. I am in the Northern Virginia area . If it matters, this was not a new FIOS install, i already had internet and phone, this install added the high-definition TV. I had been using DirecTV with an old Sony Tivo. I didn't even think twice about going to the Verizon DVR, I waited so long to switch because my old Tivo was what was keeping me happy with DirecTV.

I'd provide information on my ONT if someone can tell me what to look for.


----------



## pieler8

exdishguy said:


> Can the guys that just got FiOS TV installed tell us what kind of ONT they used? Also, keep us updated on the pixelization issues - good or bad. I'm particularily interested in good installs and trying to find some common denominator as to Tivo works fine in your market vs. others that have had persistent issues.


I believe my ONT model is 612A. I'm in SE Pa. I just opened up the customer part, and it was on the status sticker. I have 2 HD Tivo's and have not seen any pixelation issues so far


----------



## mae

It has been two weeks since I switched from Comcast, and I'm happier than ever I made the change.

Even though I asked to terminate my service with Comcast on 3/30, I'm still being billed until they disconnect me at the tap, now scheduled for 4/13. I've posted the details of this problem, which seems to vary by region on the Comcast thread, http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7195269#post7195269. They claim I'll be credited back to 3/30 after they do the disconnect.

I don't want to double post, so if you're making the switch, you should take a look.


----------



## pieler8

I have the exact same situation as you mae. Cancelled comcast on 3/24 with an effective date of 4/2. They tell me they cannot cancelled me until 4/13 but they will backdate/refund any charges as of 4/2.


----------



## richsadams

When we moved locally we had overlapping service from Comcast. They did the same thing: charged us through the end of the billing period for our orignal house initially and then subsequently credited us the difference on the new account...eventually. But it was a bit of a mess when they crossed up both accounts; discontinued some services on the new one and thought they had changed the old one, etc. Took several months to clean up.

With regard to how they handle things it appears that it's really a local issue. Often Comcast acquired a local cable provider at some point and just kept their policies intact (as long as they benefited Comcast). The inconsistencies in service, quality, support, etc. are legend. I can't really complain about our service though. They've been fairly decent throughout. Too bad they've boosted our "Triple Play" rates over $200/mo. in one year.  We're going to end up with about the same services with more HD, better PQ and faster broadband for almost half the price from VZ. Such is life.


----------



## mae

richsadams said:


> When we moved locally we had overlapping service from Comcast. They did the same thing: charged us through the end of the billing period for our orignal house initially and then subsequently credited us the difference on the new account...eventually. But it was a bit of a mess when they crossed up both accounts; discontinued some services on the new one and thought they had changed the old one, etc. Took several months to clean up.
> 
> With regard to how they handle things it appears that it's really a local issue. Often Comcast acquired a local cable provider at some point and just kept their policies intact (as long as they benefited Comcast). The inconsistencies in service, quality, support, etc. are legend. I can't really complain about our service though. They've been fairly decent throughout. Too bad they've boosted our "Triple Play" rates over $200/mo. in one year.  We're going to end up with about the same services with more HD, better PQ and faster broadband for almost half the price from VZ. Such is life.


Dealing with Comcast is just like what Tip O'Neill said about politics, everything is local.

Come to think of it, there are a bunch of other similarities!


----------



## richsadams

Okay, the peer pressure was just getting to be too much (not to mention that my Comcast bill was as well), so I pulled the trigger.  FIOS install will be on the 27th. I had a lengthy discussion with the VZ tech that I ran into a while back on an install down the street. He remembered me as a "TiVo Guy" and we discussed the signal issues, etc. He said that he was aware of one band that is problematic for some but not everyone. He said that that they were addressing any issues with attenuation at the moment but he expected things to be "normal" in the near future. 

He listened to my wish list and took the time to walk me through all of the options, ensured that he had me down for three cable cards (it turns out that they only have "M" cards here) and then put me in touch with an official order desk person (named Princess...and she was!  ). After my experiences with mistakes with my VZ wireless billing and hearing all of the horror stories about how tough it is to get them to fix their system if it isn't right from the get-go I had her read back every detail to be sure it was what I wanted. She was very patient and calm and did a very nice job of taking care of me.

With everything I'm getting including Extreme HD, HBO & Showtime, Setanta Sports Channel, an extra STB for my computer, 20/5 broadband, phone, etc. my bill will be about $155/mo. ...about $50 less than Comcast (for more of everything except the phone). The price is guaranteed for two years plus I get the current offer of $150 cash back after the first 30 days. It's not cheap by any means, but it's everything we wanted and I can live with that.

Now I have to break the news to Comcast. Such is life. I'm guessing they'll try to retain me, but my mind is made up!  

Wish me luck!


----------



## Gregor

Good luck, Rich!

Comcast made no effort to retain my business. I took the cable boxes and cable modem down to the office and told them I wanted to cancel and that was that.

I got a few offers that were about what I was paying that were addressed to me personally, now I'm just "Occupant".


----------



## mae

richsadams said:


> Okay, the peer pressure was just getting to be too much (not to mention that my Comcast bill was as well), so I pulled the trigger.  FIOS install will be on the 27th. I had a lengthy discussion with the VZ tech that I ran into a while back on an install down the street. He remembered me as a "TiVo Guy" and we discussed the signal issues, etc. He said that he was aware of one band that is problematic for some but not everyone. He said that that they were addressing any issues with attenuation at the moment but he expected things to be "normal" in the near future.
> 
> He listened to my wish list and took the time to walk me through all of the options, ensured that he had me down for three cable cards (it turns out that they only have "M" cards here) and then put me in touch with an official order desk person (named Princess...and she was!  ). After my experiences with mistakes with my VZ wireless billing and hearing all of the horror stories about how tough it is to get them to fix their system if it isn't right from the get-go I had her read back every detail to be sure it was what I wanted. She was very patient and calm and did a very nice job of taking care of me.
> 
> With everything I'm getting including Extreme HD, HBO & Showtime, Setanta Sports Channel, an extra STB for my computer, 20/5 broadband, phone, etc. my bill will be about $155/mo. ...about $50 less than Comcast (for more of everything except the phone). The price is guaranteed for two years plus I get the current offer of $150 cash back after the first 30 days. It's not cheap by any means, but it's everything we wanted and I can live with that.
> 
> Now I have to break the news to Comcast. Such is life. I'm guessing they'll try to retain me, but my mind is made up!
> 
> Wish me luck!


Rich,

I hope you have the same luck I did. Almost 3 weeks and (knock on wood) no problems. I just looked at my first bill online and it seems to be right, so that's the last hurdle. Of course, I turned my Comcast stuff in on 3/30 but they haven't been out to the tap to turn it off yet, so they still consider me a customer. According to the guy who called me after I emailed the CEO and COO that should happen today and they will credit me back to the 30th.

I picked up a NIM 100 on ebay a few weeks before my install and am really happy with using it instead of a wireless adapter. It is much faster and has the added benefit of stripping the MoCA from the line going to the TiVo. I paid $10 (new, but no power brick-a Linksys 12v worked fine) plus shipping. My installer said he didn't have any, but others have reported luck asking for them since they don't use them anymore. The ones currently available on ebay are a lot more, but you might want to keep an eye out for bargains.

Mark


----------



## David Platt

richsadams said:


> Okay, the peer pressure was just getting to be too much (not to mention that my Comcast bill was as well), so I pulled the trigger.  FIOS install will be on the 27th.


Yay! We finally got Rich! I guess we can close the thread now... 

j/k, Rich. I think you made the right choice. You'll love it.


----------



## richsadams

Gregor said:


> Good luck, Rich! ...now I'm just "Occupant".


Oh, I bet they hold you (as they do me) in the highest esteem...I bet you're considered "_Current_ Occupant"! 



mae said:


> Rich, I hope you have the same luck I did.


 Thanks Mark, me too!

I've been casually following all of the MoCA posts but I need to do a little more research. The TiVo's (and everything else) are hard wired/Ethernet, but I do have a couple laptops that need WiFi now and then. I have a D-Link Extreme N wireless router that the tech said I could use instead of using theirs. Guess I'll have to look at how MoCA would work or if it makes sense for me...soon! 



David Platt said:


> Yay! We finally got Rich! I guess we can close the thread now...
> 
> j/k, Rich. I think you made the right choice. You'll love it.


From your lips to VZ's ears!


----------



## richsadams

David Platt said:


> I think you made the right choice. You'll love it.


David, since you're in the same neighborhood, how is your broadband speed? The reason I ask is that Comcast recently boosted theirs. Below is a recent test that I ran using Speakeasy. That was on a very good night using the Seattle connection and it can go down to half of that during the day, but it's generally above 20/5 Mbps.

http://i41.tinypic.com/2mo5zpc.jpg 34448/8592 kbps

Since VZ's is 20/5 I'm a little worried about an actual cut in speed now. Comcast used to have a download "blast" where the speed was higher for the first 10MB and then throttled back. I can't find any info about that now and wonder if that's still the case or if they opened up the pipe to compete w/VZ?

Just downloading a large file from any old site isn't a good measure. So I guess I need to find a test server that will allow a sustained download larger than the typical test sites to see if it eventually falls off.

Anyway, just wondering what you (or anyone else) were seeing. It won't deter me from switching but I was hoping for as fast or faster broadband than what I have currently. TIA!


----------



## webin

richsadams said:


> how is your broadband speed?
> 
> Just downloading a large file from any old site isn't a good measure. So I guess I need to find a test server that will allow a sustained download larger than the typical test sites to see if it eventually falls off.
> 
> Anyway, just wondering what you (or anyone else) were seeing. It won't deter me from switching but I was hoping for as fast or faster broadband than what I have currently. TIA!


I've done a bunch of speed tests (though not recently), and I pretty consistently get within 5% (plus or minus) of the quoted 20 mbps. The best way I can think of to test "real world" speeds that high is to install a bittorrent client (such as utorrent), then cue up about 4 different linux distributions. Let the client open as many connections as it wants, and then set them all the files downloading simultaneously, and you'll be getting a METRIC TON of peers. I think I remember seeing at least 15 mbps down at one time using that technique.

BTW... I'm not sure when I last saw pixellation. I'm considering dropping my attenuation down form 6 to 3dB to see how that works.


----------



## mae

richsadams said:


> Oh, I bet they hold you (as they do me) in the highest esteem...I bet you're considered "_Current_ Occupant"!
> 
> Thanks Mark, me too!
> 
> I've been casually following all of the MoCA posts but I need to do a little more research. The TiVo's (and everything else) are hard wired/Ethernet, but I do have a couple laptops that need WiFi now and then. I have a D-Link Extreme N wireless router that the tech said I could use instead of using theirs. Guess I'll have to look at how MoCA would work or if it makes sense for me...soon!
> 
> From your lips to VZ's ears!


Rich,

I know Comcast loves me...I just got back from a few errands to a message from the County Cable Administration about the complaint I filed against Comcast. If they can continue to bug me, I can continue to bug them! (BTW, the actually DID finally disconnect me this AM, it only took 2 weeks).

If you aren't using any of their set top boxes and you have them wire the ONT to your router via ethernet, there really is no need for MoCA (or their router). From what I've seen, they are using a Westell in the great Northwest, and some have claimed it is better the Actiontec deployed here in former Bell Atlantic territory. It does seem to have some issues with VPN's, so if you don't need it for their STB's you can avoid it altogether. If you do need it, and can easily connect your router to the ONT with ethernet, use the Westell in bridge mode to your router for MoCA for the STBs. Reports of interference by the MoCA channels have really decreased and that setup would only use the LAN channel, no WAN channel needed. Another method would be to use a NIM 100 (if the installer has one) from an ethernet port on your router to put the MoCA on the cable for the STBs. That would avoid having to do any setup on the Westell if you don't need router/switch/access point funtionality from it. With my layout and available cabling, going with MoCA to the router was the path of least resistance and seems to be working fine.

Mark


----------



## woodway

My FIOS service was installed two weeks ago.

Motorola ONT1000JI. The JI apparently stands for "Just Inside", it's a fully integrated unit used for indoor installations - mine is in my basement utility room. It is a pretty good looking unit.

I have two TIVO HD's and one Verizon/Motorola STB installed.

I have no attenuators installed and zero problems with pixelation.

I did have the installer provision ethernet to the router, although the Verizon STB still connects to the network through the router, over coax.

Verizon gave me a Westell router, which I have since replaced with my own Linksys router. The Linksys is faster. I've got the Westell hanging off the Linksys for the sole purpose of giving the Verizon STB internet access. No need to bridge the Westell, just release your IP address and put your own router in it's place.

Someday I will get another TIVO and get rid of the Verizon STB and Westell router all together.

I am pretty happy with FIOS overall :up:


----------



## richsadams

webin said:


> I've done a bunch of speed tests (though not recently), and I pretty consistently get within 5% (plus or minus) of the quoted 20 mbps.


Good info. Thanks my friend! :up: Let us know how the change in attenuation goes. TIA.


----------



## richsadams

mae said:


> Rich,
> 
> I know Comcast loves me... If you aren't using any of their set top boxes and you have them wire the ONT to your router via ethernet, there really is no need for MoCA (or their router). <snip>


 Thanks for that Mark, all good info that I'll need to review and digest. Much appreciated!


----------



## David Platt

webin said:


> I've done a bunch of speed tests (though not recently), and I pretty consistently get within 5% (plus or minus) of the quoted 20 mbps. The best way I can think of to test "real world" speeds that high is to install a bittorrent client (such as utorrent), then cue up about 4 different linux distributions. Let the client open as many connections as it wants, and then set them all the files downloading simultaneously, and you'll be getting a METRIC TON of peers. I think I remember seeing at least 15 mbps down at one time using that technique.
> 
> BTW... I'm not sure when I last saw pixellation. I'm considering dropping my attenuation down form 6 to 3dB to see how that works.


I pretty consistently get within 5% of the advertised speeds as well. I've done a few speed tests for various neighbors that have FiOS, and we're all getting right at the same speed.

Knock on wood, but I haven't had any pixellation problems in quite a while. I think they really have been working on the problem.


----------



## rf75

Bought a THD at Sears, special price; only one was the display, so no box, no cards, no Cablecard instructions, but I did get a manual. FiOS installer coming Friday with M-series cablecard - is there somewhere on the web I can get the install instructions to give him?
BTW the Tivo was sick and a new (refurb?) is being cross-shipped, arriving tomorrow. Presuming I need to install it asap to get the 11.x software!

Didn't see anywhere on the Tivo site to print the cable card instructions ..........


----------



## richsadams

rf75 said:


> Didn't see anywhere on the Tivo site to print the cable card instructions ..........


Welcome to the forum and congrats on your new TiVo! You can find everything you need at www.tivo.com under Support.

Here's a tutorial you can watch...or grab some popcorn and watch it with your new cable tech friend:

http://www.tivo.com/assets/flash/support/hooking_up_tivo_dvr.swf

Here are guidelines about what to do before the installer arrives and instructions that you can print out and hand to the installer:

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/135

Be sure he follows every step carefully and doesn't try to skip over or combine anything. If followed correctly you should be up and running in no time.

TiVo is shipped with the software that was available at the time it was manufactured and will generally be older than the current software release. You should see an automatic upgrade to the current software and all of its features within 48 to 72 hours (usually less). TiVo's priority is to first get all of your guide data, then to upgrade the software.

You can try to force an upgrade by going to Messages & Settings->Settings->Phone & Network->Connect now. Try that a few times. Once the download has completed you may see "Pending restart" listed in the Last Status line on the Phone & Network Screen or on the System Information screen. TiVo will automatically install the upgrade at 2 a.m. your time or you can reboot it (unplug it and plug it back in) and it will update immediately.

Enjoy!


----------



## rf75

Thanks! Don't know why I couldn't find that link. Appreciated.


----------



## calicant

Just called Verizon Fios about cablecards for two Tivo HD boxes. Was told that in my area (Ventura County) I would need 4 cards so they must still be dumping the S-Cards here. I Couldn't place the order since I originally ordered a Home Media upgrade and new HD reveiver for second tv and that order is still pending. I couldn't believe they sent me the same old quirky QIP 6416 DVR and so I am switching to TIVO on both TV sets. It is outrageous that I have to pay for a total of 4 S-cards at double the lease price. However, I'll do anything to avoid paying a bloated lease fee for the inadequate QIP 6416 DVR.

Has anyone in Southern California managed to get M-Cards yet?


----------



## pj1016

calicant said:


> <snip>
> 
> Has anyone in Southern California managed to get M-Cards yet?


Yes, I got an M-Card recently...

pj


----------



## calicant

pj1016 said:


> Yes, I got an M-Card recently...
> 
> pj


Great news! Perhaps there is a chance I'll get M-Cards too.


----------



## mae

richsadams said:


> Okay, the peer pressure was just getting to be too much (not to mention that my Comcast bill was as well), so I pulled the trigger.  FIOS install will be on the 27th.
> Wish me luck!


Rich,

How did the install go?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Mark


----------



## DCIFRTHS

mae said:


> Rich,
> 
> How did the install go?
> 
> Inquiring minds want to know!
> 
> Mark


To state the obvious: Either had a great install, and is busy playing with all his new toys, or he had problems, and can't get here to post.

Let's hope he's just busy playing !!


----------



## mae

DCIFRTHS said:


> To state the obvious: Either had a great install, and is busy playing with all his new toys, or he had problems, and can't get here to post.
> 
> Let's hope he's just busy playing !!


I've noticed his posts on other threads, that's what raised my curiosity.


----------



## richsadams

Boy...you guys are strict...um...I mean good! I wasn't trying to slide. I just wanted to give the new setup some time settle in and to to see if it was going to do something unexpected or perhaps expected before reporting back.

FIOS is four by four as they say and all systems are go! :up: I'll post a more in-depth "review" of the install (all was not perfect, but eventually things were made right) in a couple of days or so.

At the moment phone, broadband and most importantly TV are just about perfect. (Hope that didn't jinx anything  ) No attenuation and no A/V issues at all. Woo hoo!  I haven't had the chance to view all of the channels at length of course (might take a lifetime) but the one's that have been recorded are showing no signs of any problems and skimming through some others looked good as well. I know it's been less than 48 hours, but one can only hope for the best.

Be back soon!


----------



## teasip

If you end up like me I've limited my exposure to pixelation issues by dropping most channels from my favorites listing. I basically use my OTA for locals and FiOS only for sports channels and Discovery channels. Even with the original, hot signal ONT I'm not having to use attenuation other than the provided attic splitter (even before modifying my favorites listing).


----------



## Squirrel

Hi,

The backstory (shortened): Was going to switch to Fios, have Series 2 Tivos. They came, installed everything but couldn't complete install. Needed to come back. In the meantime I realized I would lose the dual tuner option with my TiVo. Cancelled the install. 

Decided that I want Fios. I got an Series 3 HD Tivo which I believe I read would work. But with what? What do I need to ask Verizon for to get want I need. M-Cards? S-Cards? -- I have no idea what either of these are. Not technical.

Also reading something about ONT??? Not sure what that is either. Can someone help me?

Thanks!


----------



## Ziggy86

Tivo Series 3 need two S-cards from what I remember. If you have the TIVO HD unit which is different from the Series 3 it can take either one M card or Two S-cards.


----------



## Rolento76

Ziggy86 said:


> Tivo Series 3 need two S-cards from what I remember. If you have the TIVO HD unit which is different from the Series 3 it can take either one M card or Two S-cards.


When Verizon did my install, they only brought M-cards and I have two Series3s. The Series3 will work fine with TWO M-cards.


----------



## Squirrel

Also if anyone could tell me if there's anything else I will need to make my TiVo's work or need to tell the Verizon people that I may be unaware of.

Thank you!


----------



## mae

Squirrel said:


> Also if anyone could tell me if there's anything else I will need to make my TiVo's work or need to tell the Verizon people that I may be unaware of.
> 
> Thank you!


As previously stated, the original Series 3 requires two cards (single or multi stream). A TiVo HD or HD-XL can use one multi-stream (M) card for both tuners. Your original post said you have an "HD", so if that is the case, you need to tell Verizon that you need an M card. Recent posts (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=386864 have been that is all they are deploying now, since Motorola discontinued single stream cards over a year ago.

The ONT is an "optical network terminal", the white or grey box Verizon uses to convert the fiber to internet, phone and video. They furnish that as part of the install and will hook it to your cabling.

If you have been using your Series 2 with a phone line, you can use that with the HD, but you should consider using ethernet or a wireless adapter.


----------



## MookieDoug

Squirrel said:


> Also if anyone could tell me if there's anything else I will need to make my TiVo's work or need to tell the Verizon people that I may be unaware of.
> 
> Thank you!


The one main thing I would suggest, before your install, is to make sure you go through your guided setup on new Tivo HD several days before the M-card installation. If after a day you don't have software version 11.x, force it to connect again to download the latest software. (And as someone previously said, it will be much faster/easier if you hook it up with a wireless adapter.)

Finally, when they come to do the M-card install, make sure they follow the detailed instructions that Tivo supplies with the Tivo HD. If they do that, it should go very smoothly. (At least mine did.)

And lastly, don't get confused between the early Series 3 Tivos and the Tivo HD. The new Tivo HD uses Series 3 technology (and even says "series 3" on the box in the description), but the new Tivo HD only needs 1 M-card. The old Series 3 Tivo needs 2 cards -- either 2 S- or 2 M-cards.


----------



## toddeades

Hi Everyone!

While I've seen Verizon trucks in my area for months I finally saw a yard sign in my neighbor's yard today and FIOS is ordered. While I'm mostly excited about the internet speeds I had to add the TV package just for the cost.

I've had a Tivo since 2002 and I'm currently with Time Warner. I have 2 Tivo HDs and 1 Series 2 (Single Tuner) box. I'll be moving all 3 over to FIOS.

What should I expect at the install?

What do I need to do with my TIVOs to prep them? 
Should I remove the existing CableCards and run setup?

Can I use a serial cable between the STB and TIVO on my series 2 box?

They will be out next Friday...I can hardly wait.

I'm in Frisco, TX (Far North Dallas)

Thanks!


----------



## webin

toddeades said:


> What do I need to do with my TIVOs to prep them?
> Should I remove the existing CableCards and run setup?
> 
> Can I use a serial cable between the STB and TIVO on my series 2 box?


Woot!
I would take the cable cards out and do a total reset on the TivoHDs. I have no idea if that's really needed, but seems like a good way to clear out the information for the current cards. Then, on all of them, I'd run guided setup and enter your soon-to-arrive FIOS source. You won't be able to test channels, but it will get the tivos thinking in the right direction.

Yes, you can use a serial connection between the Series2 and the Verizon STB, but I found the RF emmiter to be "faster" when doing channel changes and such.


----------



## Rolento76

webin said:


> Woot!
> I would take the cable cards out and do a total reset on the TivoHDs. I have no idea if that's really needed, but seems like a good way to clear out the information for the current cards. Then, on all of them, I'd run guided setup and enter your soon-to-arrive FIOS source. You won't be able to test channels, but it will get the tivos thinking in the right direction.
> 
> Yes, you can use a serial connection between the Series2 and the Verizon STB, but I found the RF emmiter to be "faster" when doing channel changes and such.


When I had my FiOS install done, I didn't remove the cable company cablecards until I was ready to install the FiOS cablecards. I didn't want to miss out on any recordings by pulling out the cards days before my install.

After the ONT install and after my FiOS internet was working, I made sure that my TiVos had an internet connection. Then I pulled out the cable company cablecards and reran guided setup after the FiOS tech confirmed a good signal to the TiVos. During guided setup, we followed TiVo's recommended cablecard install instructions and everything worked fine.


----------



## wmcbrine

MookieDoug said:


> (And as someone previously said, it will be much faster/easier if you hook it up with a wireless adapter.)


Only if you're comparing it to dial-up. Wired Ethernet FTW.


----------



## Distortedloop

wmcbrine said:


> Only if you're comparing it to dial-up. Wired Ethernet FTW.


While I don't disagree that wired Ethernet is generally preferable to wireless, it is definitely easier to put in place in many situations, and could be faster. Wireless G at 54mb/s is faster than the original Ethernet standard of 10mb/s, and Wireless N at 300mb/s is faster than the much more common Fast Ethernet standard at 100 mb/s. Obviously Gigabit Ethernet is the fastest of them all.

Just depends on what router you're using.

Besides, unless you're moving recordings back and forth off your TiVo to another device, the only thing you're moving over the network is some pretty small amount of guide data. Even for that, the actual broadband connection is most likely to be your bottleneck, since most will opt for 20mb/s speed, but even the substantially more expensive 50 is, in perfect wireless conditions, slower than the wireless G you're likely to end up with with the Verizon supplied router.


----------



## toddeades

Rolento76 said:


> When I had my FiOS install done, I didn't remove the cable company cablecards until I was ready to install the FiOS cablecards. I didn't want to miss out on any recordings by pulling out the cards days before my install.
> 
> After the ONT install and after my FiOS internet was working, I made sure that my TiVos had an internet connection. Then I pulled out the cable company cablecards and reran guided setup after the FiOS tech confirmed a good signal to the TiVos. During guided setup, we followed TiVo's recommended cablecard install instructions and everything worked fine.


Since all the channels are changing we will need to setup our Season Passes again....can his be done without having to delete each one individually? Can I do a reset of this without deleting all my recordings.


----------



## sinanju

toddeades said:


> Since all the channels are changing we will need to setup our Season Passes again....can his be done without having to delete each one individually? Can I do a reset of this without deleting all my recordings.


Your season passes should find the new channel locations. When I switched from Comcast to FiOS, I only redid season passes for shows that were only available on SD channels on Comcast but were available in HD on FiOS.


----------



## richsadams

toddeades said:


> Since all the channels are changing we will need to setup our Season Passes again....can his be done without having to delete each one individually? Can I do a reset of this without deleting all my recordings.


As sinanju said, you shouldn't need to make any changes to your SP's. TiVo will automatically remap them to the correct channels after FIOS is installed and you've run Guided Setup again (at which time you'll select VZ FIOS as your provider instead of your current provider). All of ours were updated perfectly. :up:


----------



## wmcbrine

The automatic remapping works pretty well, except when it moves your HD SP to an SD channel, or the like.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

wmcbrine said:


> The automatic remapping works pretty well, except when it moves your HD SP to an SD channel, or the like.


I'm glad you mentioned that. I just switched to FiOS. I checked, and all my season passes were updated, but I didn't verify if they were all mapped to HD channels.


----------



## bkdtv

When you switch providers, the To Do List may list your wishlist recordings on the wrong channels [for the next 12-14 days]...but it should still record from the correct channels.


----------



## tdel73

so my hard-drive crapped out and TiVo is sending me a replacement. Does anyone know if Verizon will let me use the old cable cards or are they going to make a tech come out and install new cards?


----------



## richsadams

tdel73 said:


> so my hard-drive crapped out and TiVo is sending me a replacement. Does anyone know if Verizon will let me use the old cable cards or are they going to make a tech come out and install new cards?


IIRC you don't have to re-pair, etc. FIOS cable cards so you should be good to go.


----------



## tdel73

richsadams said:


> IIRC you don't have to re-pair, etc. FIOS cable cards so you should be good to go.


that would be sweet, guess I'll find out in a week or so.


----------



## Shades

Hey folks,

I'm thinking of making the switch from Cox cable to FIOS and am trying to make sure that it makes sense before I pull the trigger. I have multiple Tivo units, but the one I'll be using primarily is an original series 3 unit, which I'm currently using with my cable setup (via two S-type cablecards) and its been working great, and is already up to date with the latest updates, etc.

I've skimmed through several pages of posts here, and it seems like this shouldn't be a problem but I thought I'd post up and confirm... all I need to support FIOS is two M-type cablecards (since they don't use S-type any longer and the series 3 doesn't support a single M-type card for dual tuners) and connect the Tivo to the FIOS terminal, and I should be good to go?

Are there any other caveats I should be aware of before I consider taking the plunge here? Will I need anything else special to make this work? Will I need to worry about running new lines to my Tivo, or will it run through the Coaxial lines I already have in my home?

One of the big reasons I want to move to FIOS is because they have a lot more HD programming (and for some reason I can only get a few HD channels with cox with my current setup), so I want to make sure I can take the most advantage of that.

Btw, I'm in the Northern Virginia area... there seem to be a number of locals on here, so I'm hopeful that others may have some experience with this transition from Cox to FIOS that may help assuage my fear of potential issues.

If it matters, I'm planning to move my internet service to FIOS as well, but I would hope that would not impact the TV service.

Thank you!


----------



## dresden69

Shades said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> I'm thinking of making the switch from Cox cable to FIOS and am trying to make sure that it makes sense before I pull the trigger. I have multiple Tivo units, but the one I'll be using primarily is an original series 3 unit, which I'm currently using with my cable setup (via two S-type cablecards) and its been working great, and is already up to date with the latest updates, etc.
> 
> I've skimmed through several pages of posts here, and it seems like this shouldn't be a problem but I thought I'd post up and confirm... all I need to support FIOS is two M-type cablecards (since they don't use S-type any longer and the series 3 doesn't support a single M-type card for dual tuners) and connect the Tivo to the FIOS terminal, and I should be good to go?
> 
> Are there any other caveats I should be aware of before I consider taking the plunge here? Will I need anything else special to make this work? Will I need to worry about running new lines to my Tivo, or will it run through the Coaxial lines I already have in my home?
> 
> One of the big reasons I want to move to FIOS is because they have a lot more HD programming (and for some reason I can only get a few HD channels with cox with my current setup), so I want to make sure I can take the most advantage of that.
> 
> Btw, I'm in the Northern Virginia area... there seem to be a number of locals on here, so I'm hopeful that others may have some experience with this transition from Cox to FIOS that may help assuage my fear of potential issues.
> 
> If it matters, I'm planning to move my internet service to FIOS as well, but I would hope that would not impact the TV service.
> 
> Thank you!


You would not need to run any new coax... The tech should be able to use your existing wiring inside the house to get service to that TIVO Box. Something that I have done in my house was made sure that all my TIVOs have a hard Ethernet connection to my router... This has made things like Netflix and Amazon work like a charm. (Along with my own home network). The 20/5 really allows Netflix to shine...

Make sure you get the Extreme HD Package when signing up... this will give you all the HD channels that Verizon has to offer, and mention that you would to try the All Access package, it should be free for 2 months, and that would give you all the Movie channels.

If you have any questions, feel free to message me.. would be more than happy to help out.


----------



## John C

Hi tdel73, 

Let us know how this works out for you. My TIVO just died as well and they are sending a new one to us. 

I am also anxious about getting all to work again. 

John


----------



## tdel73

John C said:


> Hi tdel73,
> 
> Let us know how this works out for you. My TIVO just died as well and they are sending a new one to us.
> 
> I am also anxious about getting all to work again.
> 
> John


will do...I should have the TIVO later this week so I will let you know...


----------



## gtalvola

I got FIOS installed recently in Melrose MA and it's been working quite well. Once or twice there have been some glitches in the image but I used to get that occasionally with Comcast too. I've checked the DVR diagnostics several times and both the RS Corrected and RS Uncorrected are always 0 so I figure they are just transient glitches in the Verizon feed, not any problem with my setup.

However, one thing I've noticed is that there are several non-HD PBS channels that are listed as having HD programs on them. For example, channel 470 WGBHDT is not actually an HD channel, but many of the programs in the guide listing show up as HD recordings. Which sucks if you are trying to use a wishlist to auto-record HD programs and you end up getting non-HD stuff recorded instead.

Who would I talk to to try to get the guide data corrected?


----------



## richsadams

gtalvola said:


> Who would I talk to to try to get the guide data corrected?


From the Forum FAQ:



> Problems with lineups (the list of channels available) or more specific regular problems with guide data can be reported through email to [email protected] or with the web form at http://customersupport.tivo.com/tivoknowbase/root/public/tv1050.htm. For email, make sure to include your TiVo serial number, zip code, and cable company along with a detailed description of the problem. TiVo will try to talk to Tribune to fix the problem, but sometimes the information is not available. For example, techtv and comedy central are frequently mentioned for not having episode information. The channel is not providing the information to Tribune in this case, and TiVo cannot do anything about it. Try contacting the channel directly - maybe if enough people complain, they will change. (Note that TiVo, ReplayTV, and UTV, in addition to many paper/online listings all use Tribune for guide information.)
> 
> If you notice a problem with a specific show that might affect other people, you can also post to the Season Pass Alerts forum. A good example of a problem for this forum is a last minute change in the schedule by the network that TiVo won't get in time or if a first-run season pass thinks a particular episode is a repeat, when it is not.


That said, are you sure that WGBHDT is not an HD channel? The call sign indicates that it is. All of the programs may not be in HD, but anything they broadcast in HD should be on that channel. Their guide data shows both SD and HDTV programming.


----------



## gtalvola

richsadams said:


> That said, are you sure that WGBHDT is not an HD channel? The call sign indicates that it is. All of the programs may not be in HD, but anything they broadcast in HD should be on that channel. Their guide data shows both SD and HDTV programming.


My tivo is set to native mode and that channel comes through at 480i resolution, so it's not HD. Channel 502 is the HD version of WGBH.

Maybe Verizon is scaling an HD signal down to 480i on that channel but leaving the HD indicator in the guide data?


----------



## wmcbrine

richsadams said:


> That said, are you sure that WGBHDT is not an HD channel? The call sign indicates that it is.


No, it only indicates that it's digital. Note that this in Fios' SD subchannels range (450-499); HD locals are in 500-549. Some PBS affiliates don't have their HD subchannel as their main subchannel (and some don't even have an HD subchannel). Then again, this could easily be a case where Tribune has flagged the channel as "WGBHDT" when it should be "WGBHDT2" or something. I've had that problem with some of the PBS affiliates here.


----------



## richsadams

wmcbrine said:


> No, it only indicates that it's digital.


Ah, got it. I noted on the Zap2it listings that they are broadcasting or at least listing HD programming on that channel though. Odd.


----------



## mae

We have the same situation here in Maryland with our PBS stations (Maryland Public Broadcasting and WETA). I think that the cause is the local affiliate. The program is probably an HD one and shows up that way in the Times Mirror data, but the local station broadcasts it in SD. It is particularly frustrating with some travel shows that you know are HD, are transmitted on the main, HD capable channel, but are shown in boxed 16x9 SD. One possible explanation is the local station has it recorded in SD, and really only can transmit it in HD during the actual HD feed from PBS.

Having it occur nationwide with PBS affiliates kind of confirms my theory.


----------



## wmcbrine

richsadams said:


> I noted on the Zap2it listings that they are broadcasting or at least listing HD programming on that channel though. Odd.


Zap2It = Tribune = TiVo's guide. An error in one is an error in the other.


----------



## gtalvola

I reported the incorrect HD flag on channel 470 WGBHDT to Tivo. We'll see if it gets fixed.


----------



## mae

Interesting info in this press release:

http://newscenter.verizon.com/press-releases/verizon/2009/verizon-to-divest-wireline.html

Some relevent quotes:

The operations Frontier will acquire include all of Verizon's local wireline operating territories in Arizona, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Nevada, North Carolina, Ohio, Oregon, South Carolina, Washington, West Virginia and Wisconsin. In addition, the transaction will include a small number of Verizon's exchanges in California, including those bordering Arizona, Nevada and Oregon.

As of year-end 2008, these operations served approximately 4.8 million local access lines; 2.2 million long-distance customers; 1.0 million high-speed data customers, including approximately 110,000 FiOS Internet customers; and 69,000 FiOS TV customers.

Also included are fiber-to-the-premises (FTTP) assets deployed by Verizon in 41 local franchises and the state of Indiana, which pass approximately 600,000 homes and small businesses. Frontier will continue to provide video services in these areas after the completion of the merger.


----------



## richsadams

mae said:


> Interesting info in this press release:
> 
> http://newscenter.verizon.com/press-releases/verizon/2009/verizon-to-divest-wireline.html


Interesting find. :up: Seems a little worrisome but maybe not. I wonder what they consider "_...predominantly rural areas in 14 states..._"? We're in a suburb of the largest city in our state (included on the list), but the population is only a little over a million and they still haven't run fiber optics to everyone here let alone to the folks out in the farmlands. Hopefully they'll continue their expansion plans or perhaps they're just letting this new company do the heavy lifting.

I was surprised that the tech that showed up a few weeks ago to do our install was a contractor, not actually a VZ employee as others have experienced. Seems they are either unable to meet demand themselves or, based on this info, are moving their capital to other areas. Hmmm.


----------



## mae

richsadams said:


> Interesting find. :up: Seems a little worrisome but maybe not. I wonder what they consider "_...predominantly rural areas in 14 states..._"? We're in a suburb of the largest city in our state (included on the list), but the population is only a little over a million and they still haven't run fiber optics to everyone here let alone to the folks out in the farmlands. Hopefully they'll continue their expansion plans or perhaps they're just letting this new company do the heavy lifting.
> 
> I was surprised that the tech that showed up a few weeks ago to do our install was a contractor, not actually a VZ employee as others have experienced. Seems they are either unable to meet demand themselves or, based on this info, are moving their capital to other areas. Hmmm.


The press release certainly wasn't very clear. At points it says all service, but at others it talks (as you say) about "rural". I posted it so that those affected can monitor their local media and forums for details as they emerge.

I think VZ sold some of their business (including FIOS) in northern New England to Fairpoint. Those affected may want to see if there is anything at BBR on how that worked.


----------



## webin

I see this as a move away from a business that is stagnant and/or in decline and a way to let them focus more resources towards building out their fiber network. A post in the VZ Policy Blog (Link) last week indicates that they are more interested in supporting consumers transition to wireless only telephone service.

Only a small percentage of FiOS customers seem to be affected directly. It seems to not be the actual FiOS service they are selling, but just the copper wire telephone service (which less than 200k FioS customers have??).

Edit: Or not. I can't decipher this press release any better than anyone else.


----------



## wmcbrine

gtalvola said:


> I reported the incorrect HD flag on channel 470 WGBHDT to Tivo. We'll see if it gets fixed.


I went to the Verizon web site to check their lineup. As I suspected, they list 470 in your area as WGBHDT2, not WGBHDT. Then I checked Zap2It.com... not only do they have 470 as WGBHDT, they have 502 as WGBHDT2! Doubly wrong.

Unfortunately this also means that, even if you get the channels swapped as they should be, you're still going to see "HD" tags on 470, because they have them on both channels now. However, the guide also indicates (rightly or wrongly) the same lineup on both channels. So I'd just take 470 out of the "Channels You Receive" list.


----------



## richsadams

webin said:


> I see this as a move away from a business that is stagnant and/or in decline and a way to let them focus more resources towards building out their fiber network. A post in the VZ Policy Blog (Link) last week indicates that they are more interested in supporting consumers transition to wireless only telephone service.
> 
> Only a small percentage of FiOS customers seem to be affected directly. It seems to not be the actual FiOS service they are selling, but just the copper wire telephone service (which less than 200k FioS customers have??).
> 
> Edit: Or not. I can't decipher this press release any better than anyone else.


If it's just the copper lines that's fine with me. If it's actually their brand new (to us) FIOS service(s), I'd be somewhat disappointed, although I've no idea what the track record is with the other company. These sorts of mergers and acquisitions always make me queasy. The shareholders may benefit but often the end-user (we consumers) get the short end of the stick.


----------



## mae

richsadams said:


> If it's just the copper lines that's fine with me. If it's actually their brand new (to us) FIOS service(s), I'd be somewhat disappointed, although I've no idea what the track record is with the other company. These sorts of mergers and acquisitions always make me queasy. The shareholders may benefit but often the end-user (we consumers) get the short end of the stick.


For those (potentially) affected, or just interested, there is a lot more discussion on BBR at http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r22381599-Frontier-to-provide-video-for-Oregon-Indiana.

I agree with Rich, it would make me queasy, particularly about future improvements and upgrades. Of course, Frontier could just contract back to VZ to maintain the FTTP services or just the backend stuff like the IMG. I'm curious about how the transfer to Fairpoint went since that may foreshadow how this will play, but haven't had a chance to look.

The idea that they want out of the wireline business to concentrate on things like FIOS seems contradictory, unless their ultimate strategy is to sell off the wireline business and maintain FIOS (perhaps with their rumored VOIP product) either direct or as a service provider to the companies it sells to.


----------



## richsadams

mae said:


> The press release certainly wasn't very clear.


A couple of more articles about it (although none of them really clears things up)...

Verizon Sells Huge Chunk Of Network To Frontier The article highlights "DSL and landlines" as Webin suspected, but then later refers to FIOS service in 41 local franchises. ??? Most worriesome is the statement:



> Just don't expect any additional FTTH expansion, given Frontier just isn't going to have the necessary resources.


FTTH is fiber to home service. Sad if they can't afford to continue to expand the fiber optics network or if they don't feel that it's worthwhile.

Verizon Dishes Off Rural Assets

"New" Frontier Coverage Area Map

Frontier Communications to Acquire Verizon Assets (From Frontier's press release)

They say the transaction will take about a year so I guess we'll just have to wait and see.


----------



## mae

I did a little research on the Fairpoint transfer (an advantage of being retired/self employed).

It doesn't look too good, this thread is on the Fairpoint forum at BBR, http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r22381839-We-are-not-alone-Verizon-sells-assets-to-Frontier:

We are not alone (Verizon sells assets to Frontier)

I just read a news story that Verizon is selling wireline assets in Arizona, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Nevada, North Carolina, Ohio, Oregon, South Carolina, Washington, West Virginia and Wisconsin as well as some assets in California to Frontier Communications Corporation.

I wonder if the "transition experience" of those Verizon customers will be better than the experience we've had with FairPoint ... 

and then there is this article:

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Fairpoint-Issues-Top-Secret-SelfImposed-Improvement-Plan-102033
Fairpoint's Top Secret Improvement Plan
To be reviewed by the same regulators who failed the first time...
02:24PM Tuesday Apr 21 2009 by Karl Bode
tags: competition · business · Op/Ed · trouble · consumers · Fairpoint Communications

As Fairpoint continues to struggle with taking ownership of Verizon's Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont DSL and landline networks, regulators have been pushing the carrier for a detailed timeline of planned improvements. Facing massive work backlogs of 40% and customers who sometimes spend hours on hold without ever reaching a human being, Fairpoint has announced a ten week plan to get things back on track.

The only problem? The company isn't letting the public see any part of the plan or how well they adhere to it. Regulators will of course see Fairpoint's self-administered plan, though one could easily wonder if their judgment has improved. Keep in mind these are the same regulators who rushed to approve the $2.3 billion deal last year against the warnings of consumer advocates, employees, unions and analysts. From the New Hampshire Union Leader:
In a filing with the New Hamsphire Public Utilities Commission, FairPoint said the information is either a trade secret or information related to competitive services, which is protected under state law. The PUC gets the data; the public doesn't. "We consider it to be competitive information, market information, that we don't want our competitors to know about," said FairPoint spokesman Jill Wurm.
Fairpoint might have better luck putting those efforts toward protecting employee data, after the carrier announced this week they misplaced the personal info of some 4,400 employees. Competitors don't really need the data to target Fairpoint. Time Warner Cable is already running local ads (see user submitted pic) aimed at annoyed customers. Obviously some data shouldn't be made public, but it doesn't make sense to not share concrete evidence of your progress with your own customers, given it could compel them to stick around.

Regardless, remember that Verizon was the big winner here. The baby bell used a sophisticated financial maneuver known as a Reverse Morris Trust to dump a significant amount of debt on Fairpoint, grab about $600 million in tax writeoffs, *and sell networks in three largely rural states they had absolutely no interest in upgrading*.


----------



## richsadams

mae said:


> I did a little research on the Fairpoint transfer (an advantage of being retired/self employed).


D'oh! Are Frontier and Fairpoint one in the same or is this "look what happened here" comparison?


----------



## mae

richsadams said:


> D'oh! Are Frontier and Fairpoint one in the same or is this "look what happened here" comparison?


Despite what has been said on BBR, they appear to be unrelated companies with different footprints.

Hopefully, people from Frontier are already studying how to do it better.


----------



## richsadams

mae said:


> Despite what has been said on BBR, they appear to be unrelated companies with different footprints.
> 
> Hopefully, people from Frontier are already studying how to do it better.


Phew!


----------



## mae

I didn't mean to take this thread off topic, but thought the FIOS customers affected should see it.

Maybe anyone interested in following this as it plays out should start a new thread so folks considering a TiVo with FIOS and not being sold off can more easily find what they need.

Mark


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

richsadams said:


> "New" Frontier Coverage Area Map


Sorry, Rich, I think we're out of luck. It looks to me like the Portland suburbs are in the "SpinCo" coverage area, i.e. we're being sold!

Of course, Verizon was a Johnny-Come-Lately around here anyway. They bought the old GTE, which previously served the PDX suburbs.


----------



## richsadams

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Sorry, Rich, I think we're out of luck. It looks to me like the Portland suburbs are in the "SpinCo" coverage area, i.e. we're being sold!
> 
> Of course, Verizon was a Johnny-Come-Lately around here anyway. They bought the old GTE, which previously served the PDX suburbs.


That's what it looks like to me too.  It'll be a drag if they stop expanding FIOS. Comcast needs the competition IMHO.


----------



## tdel73

tdel73 said:


> so my hard-drive crapped out and TiVo is sending me a replacement. Does anyone know if Verizon will let me use the old cable cards or are they going to make a tech come out and install new cards?


well I just received the refurbished Tivo they sent and now I'm having all kind of problems. I did the guided set up and what not and then installed the CC's...it was working for awhile, I was getting all the channels I should. BUT when I hit the tivo button I get a blank screen. I go to hit the live TV button and everything is blank there too. I called support and they had me disconnect the unit moves wires around. It worked for awhile and now I'm having the same problem. My Major issue is I'm switching over to cablevison this week, and the tech won't be able to install the cards because when you hit the TiVo button a see nothing but a black screen. I think I'm done with Tivo it's very frustrating, first having the hard drive wiped out with all my shows on it, now this...I have the Series 3. Anyone have any idea why this would be happening?


----------



## tdel73

tdel73 said:


> well I just received the refurbished Tivo they sent and now I'm having all kind of problems. I did the guided set up and what not and then installed the CC's...it was working for awhile, I was getting all the channels I should. BUT when I hit the tivo button I get a blank screen. I go to hit the live TV button and everything is blank there too. I called support and they had me disconnect the unit moves wires around. It worked for awhile and now I'm having the same problem. My Major issue is I'm switching over to cablevison this week, and the tech won't be able to install the cards because when you hit the TiVo button a see nothing but a black screen. I think I'm done with Tivo it's very frustrating, first having the hard drive wiped out with all my shows on it, now this...I have the Series 3. Anyone have any idea why this would be happening?


disregard this post sorry! I had the Tivo on wrong output setting....All the channels are working so the old CC work for the refurbished Tivo


----------



## webin

tdel73 said:


> disregard this post sorry! I had the Tivo on wrong output setting....


Oops! Glad you go it working.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

richsadams said:


> That's what it looks like to me too.  It'll be a drag if they stop expanding FIOS. Comcast needs the competition IMHO.


Rich: Did you post a review on your FiOS install? If so, where?


----------



## John C

"disregard this post sorry! I had the Tivo on wrong output setting....All the channels are working so the old CC work for the refurbished Tivo "

Thanks for the update. My replacement unit arrived a few days ago. I will work on this over the weekend. I am traveling this week and my wife is really missing her Tivo.


----------



## Johncv

TampaDon said:


> Hi.
> 
> I just called FIOS.
> 
> They have cable cards but the old ones not the new ones. They told me you would have NO interactive GUIDE, NO video on demand, and NO Pay Per View unless you call their automated telephone number to order a pay per view movie.
> 
> Cards cost $2.95 per month.
> 
> Don


Is it possible to get pay per view on HD TiVo?? I am under the impression that TiVo still working on this.


----------



## thinkswithfist

I had Verizon FIOS TV installed in my house on 28 March, and I just received my first bill today (22MAY). As I review it, I'm a bit peeved about the cablecard charges, and wanted to ask others here about their experience. 

Specifically: 
1) I am being charged for $2.99 per month for each single stream cablecard (two in my HD Tivo). Of course, I would prefer if Verizon had a multi-stream card. I was expecting to only pay $2.99 per month per DEVICE. (Comcast only charged me $2.99 per month for their multi-stream cablecard).
2) Verizon seems to have charged a $19.99 "additional outlet" installation charge on EACH cablecard - in other words, they treated each card as a separate outlet. This seems wrong to me - yes, it's two cards, but they are in a single device showing on a single TV. Again, I would prefer if they had a multi-stream cablecard, which would avoid this issue.

Has anyone else had similar or different experiences with their Verizon FIOS cablecards install billing? Thanks in advance!

What was strange to me during this whole process is that I was never quoted a total price for install, not even during the install process (which was probably a subcontractor, anyways). It took until two months later for it all to show up... (and then it taking some analysis to figure out).


----------



## innocentfreak

Verizon is known for having the worst billing practices. I would definitely call them about it. 

I would also check dslreports.com in their Fios Tv forums and see if anyone in your area has gotten M-cards yet. I thought every area was supposed to offer M cards now. You may even find someone who can help you on their since they do have some Verizon employees on there.


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## wmcbrine

A per-card charge is normal and expected, sorry. But the additional outlet charges are ******** and should be removed.


----------



## pilotbob

thinkswithfist said:


> 1) I am being charged for $2.99 per month for each single stream cablecard (two in my HD Tivo). Of course, I would prefer if Verizon had a multi-stream card. I was expecting to only pay $2.99 per month per DEVICE. (Comcast only charged me $2.99 per month for their multi-stream cablecard).


They have been charging me $2.99 per card also. Which is exactaly what their price schedule says. Although I have had them for a long time. It is my understanding that currently they ONLY have M cards. Are you sure you don't have 2 M cards? If so, pull one out, and bring it back and they will stop charging you for it.

I paid $0 for my install... but that was way back when they first brought service into this area. I think I am in my third year with FiOS...

BOb


----------



## KXH

I just bought a Series 3 and got FIOS hooked up today in Northern NJ. They brought out 2 cards because they told me they were SS cards, but when the installer pulled them out they were both Multi Stream cards. He took one back and I am going to call Customer Service tomorrow so they know i only needed one. The only issue i am having is that the HBO's are not showing up in the TIVO channel guide and when you go to channel 899 for HBO HD and then hit channel up it jumps to channel 1500? I am not sure why this is happening but if you manually enter 900, 901 etc it tunes the HD HBO channels just fine, but I can't scroll.


----------



## bkdtv

KXH said:


> The only issue i am having is that the HBO's are not showing up in the TIVO channel guide and when you go to channel 899 for HBO HD and then hit channel up it jumps to channel 1500? I am not sure why this is happening but if you manually enter 900, 901 etc it tunes the HD HBO channels just fine, but I can't scroll.


You need to enable (check) the channels you receive under Settings -> Channels -> Channel List.

The checked channels are the ones that you see when you channel +/-. They are also the channels you see in the guide when the "Channels I Receive" filter is selected in Guide Options.

Since it sounds like you are new to the TivoHD, be sure to see the Using TiVo link in my signature.


----------



## scoombs

KXH said:


> I just bought a Series 3 and got FIOS hooked up today in Northern NJ. They brought out 2 cards because they told me they were SS cards, but when the installer pulled them out they were both Multi Stream cards. He took one back and I am going to call Customer Service tomorrow so they know i only needed one. The only issue i am having is that the HBO's are not showing up in the TIVO channel guide and when you go to channel 899 for HBO HD and then hit channel up it jumps to channel 1500? I am not sure why this is happening but if you manually enter 900, 901 etc it tunes the HD HBO channels just fine, but I can't scroll.


You say you have a Series3, not a TivoHD correct? Then in addition to bkdtv's suggestions for checking your channels, you WILL need both cable cards. S3 needs two CC's no matter SS or MS.


----------



## Brergo

innocentfreak said:


> Verizon is known for having the worst billing practices. I would definitely call them about it.
> 
> I would also check dslreports.com in their Fios Tv forums and see if anyone in your area has gotten M-cards yet. I thought every area was supposed to offer M cards now. You may even find someone who can help you on their since they do have some Verizon employees on there.


The single stream cards are no longer made. Verizon has been using M cards for a while. Apparently their in-house training is poor because not many Verizon people are even aware that there were S cards and are now M cards.

Regarding use of a single M card, will it record 2 seperate channels at the same time? I know it is supposed to, but does it?


----------



## Gregor

Brergo said:


> The single stream cards are no longer made. Verizon has been using M cards for a while. Apparently their in-house training is poor because not many Verizon people are even aware that there were S cards and are now M cards.
> 
> Regarding use of a single M card, will it record 2 seperate channels at the same time? I know it is supposed to, but does it?


Yes on the Tivo HD or HDXL. The Series 3 will need 2 cards, it does not support the multistream function of the Mcard. 2 Mcards work fine.


----------



## John C

How does one tell if you card is single stream or multistream? I had FIOS installed about 3 months ago. 

John


----------



## bkdtv

John C said:


> How does one tell if you card is single stream or multistream? I had FIOS installed about 3 months ago.


Multistream cards have "MCARD" written in large letters across the card. Single-stream cards simply say "CableCard."

Verizon hasn't offered single-stream cards (S-CARDs) since late March or early April, and that was only in CA and parts of PA. As of early April, all FiOS service areas use M-CARDs exclusively.


----------



## Brergo

Gregor said:


> Yes on the Tivo HD or HDXL. The Series 3 will need 2 cards, it does not support the multistream function of the Mcard. 2 Mcards work fine.


Ok thanks. I was talking to a guy I know at Verizon and he was saying that the only way to get a TiVo with cablecards to work with Video On Demand and Pay Per View, etc. is for the TiVo to be able to pull an IP and play with Verizon's network. Any rumors on that coming down the pike?


----------



## richsadams

DCIFRTHS said:


> Rich: Did you post a review on your FiOS install? If so, where?


So busted.  Too much traveling and not enough time to turn around. Well, although I was dragging my heals, fearful of what the unknown might bring, we finally made the switch from Comcast bundled service to Verizon's FIOS bundled service (HD Extreme TV/Phone/Broadband @ 20/5) on April 27th. Both our Series3 and TiVo HD are humming along as if nothing happened. If that's all anyone needed to know you can skip to the next post. 

Still here? Okay.  First I have to credit VZ for over communication. They must have contacted me in every way known to man except carrier pigeon at least a half-dozen times or more to ensure that I knew when my install was being done and that I would be "ready". Me? I was way past ready at that point, but still a bit apprehensive.

The week before a VZ "road crew" (for lack of a better term) came out and dug up the landscaping along the side of the driveway to install a new cable from the street to the side of our house. They put everything back neat and tidy when they were done. As mentioned, at some point they warned me that would happen.

The following Monday the installer arrived about an hour into the four-hour block. To my surprise the kid (and I say that affectionately, but he really was very young) worked for a contractor called "Ajilon Communications", not for VZ who I had seen doing most of the installs in our neighborhood previously. He read the work order and immediately found that he did not have the digital adapter I had asked for (EyeTV for my Mac). He called in and they offered to give me a VZ DVR box for $1 more/mo. I only have so much room in my office, so I declined. They said they'd take it off of my bill and send me a digital adapter whenever I wanted. (They did indeed take it off of my bill.) I haven't had time to order the adapter yet, but I will one of these days.

Then the tech said up front "TiVo huh? I don't know much about them." Gulp. "I think I can help" I said. After installing the ONT and running some new coax and splitters along side the house he came inside and began work on getting the spaghetti factory of wires I like to call our network organized. (Everything is hard-wired coax or CAT5). He installed their modem/router but only as a bridge to my own D-Link Xtreme N router so I didn't have to alter any network settings. I still can't get my Slingbox outside of my network, but that's another thread/forum.

Between us he was able to install two M cards in the Series3 and one in the TiVo HD and get them working in fairly short order. I had to show him the cable card set up screens and such, but after that he was off and running. He handled all of it on a little netbook computer, but couldn't get the program running on my iMac. So I drug out my Windows laptop so he could finish setting things up. He probably got tired of me looking over his shoulder and offering my thoughts but I think I might have actually saved him some time and gave him enough tips to be a little more confident the next time a TiVo is part of the equation.

Since then VZ has done a good job following up with various e-mail and snail mail info...most of which I appreciate but don't have time to read. The most important part was my first bill. After reading some of the horror stories here and elsewhere I was fully prepared to go into battle. But when the bill came...low and behold everything was correct. Hallelujah!! Oh, and based on the various e-mails and postcards it looks like I'll be receiving our $150 cash back bonus pretty soon as well. Nice.

It's been over a month now and to date I've only seen sporadic, albeit somewhat annoying macroblocking/pixeization...almost all on ABC HD. Even that seems to have cleared up for the most part...although I may just not be as aware of it because most of the night-time series we watch are done for the season. A few times when there were problems I was lucky (?) enough to be watching while the program was recording so I could check the RS Corrected and Uncorrected Errors. Generally the Uncorrected errors were in the hundreds but the Corrected Errors were in the millions...sometimes five-million or more! Ouch. TiVo was doing its level best to produce good PQ even if the signal was problematic. (By contrast I had never seen one corrected or uncorrected error w/Comcast.) But again, that seems to have improved without any effort on my part, no attenuation, etc. Other than that I have very little to report with respect problems.

As far as the PQ I can safely say that much of the SD programming is better than Comcast's...not by a huge amount, but clearly better. A good deal of the HD programming seems about the same. Without a side-by-side comparison I could be mistaken. However there are some shows where I can absolutely see a BIG difference in quality. The whites are whiter, the blacks are blacker and the colors are simply stunning. The word "vivid" comes to mind. Not BlueRay shockingly vivid, but darn close. More than a few times my wife and I have raised our eyebrows and said "Wow! That's an amazing picture!"

So for about $50 less per month less we're getting more channels, more HD channels in particular and for the most part a better viewing experience. I know it's only been a little over a month, but right now I give Verizon FIOS :up: :up: No idea why I waited so long to switch.


----------



## mae

richsadams said:


> Oh, and based on the various e-mails and postcards it looks like I'll be receiving our $150 cash back bonus pretty soon as well.


Rich,

Glad it worked out. I'm a little over 2 months into to it, and everything here is still working great as well.

My prepaid Visa came about 2 weeks after my month was up, so yours should come soon. My daughter got a $100 service credit check for my referral as well (they held back $50 because I already had a landline).

Mark


----------



## bankshot

bkdtv said:


> Verizon hasn't offered single-stream cards (S-CARDs) since late March or early April, and that was only in CA and parts of PA. As of early April, all FiOS service areas use M-CARDs exclusively.


I'm having FiOS installed next Monday (the 8th) and I tried to make sure I'll be getting the right kind of card (preferably one M-card). Ultimately I ended up in a 3-way call with a customer service rep and a tech from Verizon's "solutions center." The tech insisted that they only have S-cards in this area (southern California - Chino Hills). He did seem to know the difference between the two types. So my order is currently set to install 2 cablecards.

I'll report back here after the install. I hope you're right and the tech is wrong, but I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## richsadams

mae said:


> Rich,
> 
> Glad it worked out. I'm a little over 2 months into to it, and everything here is still working great as well.


Sweet! :up:


----------



## rocko

Hey Rich - did you ever get your Slingbox issue straightened out? I'm guessing it's s simple matter of opening a firewall port on the Actiontec.


----------



## webin

richsadams said:


> However there are some shows where I can absolutely see a BIG difference in quality. The whites are whiter, the blacks are blacker and the colors are simply stunning. The word "vivid" comes to mind. Not BlueRay shockingly vivid, but darn close. More than a few times my wife and I have raised our eyebrows and said "Wow! That's an amazing picture!"


Check out a show on HDNet (or uHD?) called Sunrise Earth... some of the best video quality you'll see anywhere.... I once literally found myself staring as a picture of a bug on a leaf for five minutes, completely entranced by how good it looked.


----------



## richsadams

webin said:


> Check out a show on HDNet (or uHD?) called Sunrise Earth... some of the best video quality you'll see anywhere.... I once literally found myself staring as a picture of a bug on a leaf for five minutes, completely entranced by how good it looked.


Ha, been there, done that. It is an amazing show...particularly once you get past there being no voice-over, music or anything. I kept a copy of Sunrise New Zealand since we used to live there. It is one of our favorites. The whole series is just amazingly beautiful and peaceful...and what a picture! :up:


----------



## richsadams

rocko said:


> Hey Rich - did you ever get your Slingbox issue straightened out? I'm guessing it's s simple matter of opening a firewall port on the Actiontec.


Still haven't sorted that one out. I've opened ports on both the VZ router (a Westel Ultraline) as well as my D-Link, etc. It worked very well prior, but being behind more-or-less two firewalls now, it's going to take some more initiative on my part. I found a link that talks about it on the Sling web site...have to study it a bit more. Hopefully I can get it working again...can't stand watching hotel TV!


----------



## rocko

richsadams said:


> Still haven't sorted that one out. I've opened ports on both the VZ router (a Westel Ultraline) as well as my D-Link, etc. It worked very well prior, but being behind more-or-less two firewalls now, it's going to take some more initiative on my part. I found a link that talks about it on the Sling web site...have to study it a bit more. Hopefully I can get it working again...can't stand watching hotel TV!


I have my Linksys piggybacked off of the Actiontec and have turned off its firewall. It is unnecessary since the Actiontec firewall is in play.

I recommend you turn off the firewall on the D-Link as it is redundant and also unnecessary.


----------



## richsadams

rocko said:


> I have my Linksys piggybacked off of the Actiontec and have turned off its firewall. It is unnecessary since the Actiontec firewall is in play.
> 
> I recommend you turn off the firewall on the D-Link as it is redundant and also unnecessary.


Good thought and I tried that but still no go. The issue is (I think) that I can't get the port forwarding to work on the VZ router. It's extremely simple to set up on the D-Link and as mentioned, it worked until I added the VZ router ahead of it. Now I don't think I am getting past the VZ router to the D-Link at all. In other words, I think it's my inability to do something that s/b fairly simple. Sooo...back to the drawing board.


----------



## rocko

richsadams said:


> Good thought and I tried that but still no go. The issue is (I think) that I can't get the port forwarding to work on the VZ router. It's extremely simple to set up on the D-Link and as mentioned, it worked until I added the VZ router ahead of it. Now I don't think I am getting past the VZ router to the D-Link at all. In other words, I think it's my inability to do something that s/b fairly simple. Sooo...back to the drawing board.


Since I don't have the Westel I can't offer any firsthand advice. General tactics would include:

Try enabling uPnP on the Westel if possible
Permanently disable the firewall on the D-Link
Rerun the setup on the Slingbox once the above is done

Drop me a PM if you want to take the discussion offline. I have no problem with FIOS and my Slingbox, but like I said, I have the Actiontec, not the Westel.

The good news is the 5M upload speed affords super picture quality - something you'll appreciate on the road :up:


----------



## MapleLeaf

richsadams said:


> Between us he was able to install two M cards in the Series3 and one in the TiVo HD and get them working in fairly short order. I had to show him the cable card set up screens and such, but after that he was off and running. He handled all of it on a little netbook computer, but couldn't get the program running on my iMac. So I drug out my Windows laptop so he could finish setting things up. He probably got tired of me looking over his shoulder and offering my thoughts but I think I might have actually saved him some time and gave him enough tips to be a little more confident the next time a TiVo is part of the equation.


Rich,

I'm switching from Comcast to Verizon's Extreme HD Triple Freedom package as well, so I was hoping you could elaborate a little more on what exactly I will need to do to prep my Tivo's for the switch. I have two Tivo HD's (with an M-Card each) and a Tivo S3 (with two S-Cards).

Is there anything I should do with the Tivo's before the installer arrives? In particular, should I remove the cable cards before the installer arrives? Is it safe just to eject the cable cards whenever I want (and in the case of the S3, in whatever order I want)? Or is there some Tivo menu option buried somewhere regarding safe cable card ejection? Sorry if that's a dumb question, but I haven't touched the cable cards since installing them many months/years ago, so I don't recall the protocol for ejecting them.

Then once the installer arrives and has switched me over from Comcast service to Verizon service, what do I need to do? Do I remove the cable cards at that point (if I didn't do so before the installer arrived)?

After verifying that Verizon's cable cards are M-Cards and inserting them into my Tivo's (do they need to be inserted in any particular order on the S3?), what do I need to do then? Run guided setup all over again? What happens to my existing season's passes? Will they auto-magically get remapped to Verizon's channels?

Is there anything else I should look out for? Just skimming a few pages of this thread, it seems like some people have complained about macroblocking/pixelation issues. Are there currently known and/or widespread concerns in this regard?

Apologies if these questions have been answered before. I skimmed through the first few and last few pages of this thread, but didn't spot anything related to transferring existing Comcast service to new FiOS service.

Thanks!


----------



## webin

MapleLeaf said:


> Is there anything else I should look out for? Just skimming a few pages of this thread, it seems like some people have complained about macroblocking/pixelation issues. Are there currently known and/or widespread concerns in this regard?


The macroblocking/pixelation issues have been a concern, to the extent some people claimed FiOS was unwatchable... but I believe the problem is starting to disappear for most people (complaints are way down), and there are likely to be some changes in the (near?) future to further eliminate this problem.


----------



## richsadams

MapleLeaf said:


> I'm switching from Comcast to Verizon's Extreme HD Triple Freedom package as well, so I was hoping you could elaborate a little more on what exactly I will need to do to prep my Tivo's for the switch.


 Holly cow! It's been over a month and you expect me to remember these things?! 

I honestly didn't do anything to the TiVo's before the tech arrived. Once it was time for cable cards he/we just unplugged TiVo and pulled them out. He put in the new one(s) and fired them back up. For the Series3 I did admonish him that he needed to insert cable card 0 first, pair it and then cable card 1. He said he didn't think so and at about that time he became distracted with a phone call from another tech asking for advice...so quite honestly after showing him the cable card screens (Messages and Settings > Accnt and System Info > Cable Card Decoders > Config Cable Card > Cable Card Menu > Cable Card Pairing > Phew!) he proceeded on his own. Between entering the 3 appropriate numbers on his netbook and such he was able to get things up and running pretty quickly. I know there are some aspects of VZ cable card setups that are different than Comcast's/cableco's, but I'm not sure if it affects the "always pair cable card 0 first..." bit or not. He didn't seem to think that was necessary and I missed seeing if that's what he did or not. For some reason I think he may have completed both at the same time. Perhaps someone with more knowledge about VZ/cable cards can elaborate on that.

After he installed the cable cards and the boxes were back up and running I re-ran Guided Setup while he was there...picked the local VZ provider listed and that was about it.

My SP's were all remapped to the new channels no problem. I've seen a few posts where TiVo apparently became confused by some channels being SD or HD but that didn't happen to us.

As mentioned, I saw a little bit of Macroblocking, but not much. I haven't done anything about it since it's very rare. As Webin said, I think they are getting their signals under control or maybe some clandestine TiVo updates have addressed some of the issues. There's more about those sorts of problems on this thread, but I agree, the complaints seem to have fallen way off.

I was a bit nervous about the whole thing, but it turned out just fine. Be prepared to have the tech there a good part of the day. You'll need to show him where the ONT/Battery backup can be installed (usually on the outside/inside of the garage, etc. - he'll need a power outlet) but as long as you stay within earshot to answer any questions or lead him to your various pieces of equipment, it should go pretty smoothly. I'm really glad we switched now.

Hope that helps...let me know if you think of anything else. Best of luck and enjoy!


----------



## richsadams

rocko said:


> Since I don't have the Westel I can't offer any firsthand advice. General tactics would include:
> 
> Try enabling uPnP on the Westel if possible
> Permanently disable the firewall on the D-Link
> Rerun the setup on the Slingbox once the above is done
> 
> Drop me a PM if you want to take the discussion offline. I have no problem with FIOS and my Slingbox, but like I said, I have the Actiontec, not the Westel.
> 
> The good news is the 5M upload speed affords super picture quality - something you'll appreciate on the road :up:


Thanks for the good advice. :up: When I have a little more time I'm going to work on it some more. I know it can work...just frustrated that I can't get it right for some reason. To keep the yawns to a minimum here I'll PM you when I get stuck...notice I said "when", not "if".


----------



## MapleLeaf

Thanks for the prompt reply, Rich!



richsadams said:


> I honestly didn't do anything to the TiVo's before the tech arrived. Once it was time for cable cards he/we just unplugged TiVo and pulled them out. He put in the new one(s) and fired them back up.


Oh, I didn't realise that the proper protocol for replacing the cable cards was to first power down the Tivo's. Ok, thanks for that tip.



richsadams said:


> For the Series3 I did admonish him that he needed to insert cable card 0 first, pair it and then cable card 1.


I also vaguely recall having to insert cable card 0 and configuring/pairing it before inserting cable card 1 (back when I configured the S3 for Comcast service a few years ago), so I guess I will try to nudge the Verizon installer in that direction to be safe.



richsadams said:


> I was a bit nervous about the whole thing, but it turned out just fine. Be prepared to have the tech there a good part of the day. You'll need to show him where the ONT/Battery backup can be installed (usually on the outside/inside of the garage, etc. - he'll need a power outlet) but as long as you stay within earshot to answer any questions or lead him to your various pieces of equipment, it should go pretty smoothly. I'm really glad we switched now.


I actually already have FiOS internet, so the ONT has already been installed. It's right beside the coax line into the house, so I'm thinking it'll take the installer all of about 5 minutes to switch the coax from the Comcast feed to the ONT. And I echo your trepidation. I'm kinda nervous about it, too. Even though I switched to FiOS internet a while back, I resisted switching to FiOS TV for a few reasons. One was the cost of cable cards ($4/month each, and I need four of them). Another was the absence of a channel I wanted (the Canadian CBC channel, so I could get Maple Leaf games, but that's now moot because Verizon now offers NHL Centre Ice). But probably the biggest reason was basically "if it ain't broke, don't mess with it". My Comcast TV service has, to be honest, been working perfectly well, and I was loathe to switch and risk things not working (and more importantly, risk the wrath of my wife ). But Verizon's latest Triple Freedom package deal was just too good to resist, so I'm finally making the jump (and praying that things go smoothly ).

Thanks again, and I'll let you know how it goes!


----------



## richsadams

MapleLeaf said:


> But probably the biggest reason was basically "if it ain't broke, don't mess with it". My Comcast TV service has, to be honest, been working perfectly well, and I was loathe to switch and risk things not working (and more importantly, risk the wrath of my wife ). But Verizon's latest Triple Freedom package deal was just too good to resist, so I'm finally making the jump (and praying that things go smoothly ).
> 
> Thanks again, and I'll let you know how it goes!


I hear 'ya. I was in the same boat...and if momma ain't happy... 

But all is well. I'm sort of glad we waited a little while to switch. There were a number of "VZ TV" horror stories early on but it seems like they've gotten their act together over the past year or so.

Enjoy!


----------



## IJustLikeTivo

MapleLeaf said:


> Thanks for the prompt reply, Rich!
> 
> Oh, I didn't realise that the proper protocol for replacing the cable cards was to first power down the Tivo's. Ok, thanks for that tip.


Not needed. If the unit is running, it will recognize that a cablecard has been inserted



MapleLeaf said:


> I also vaguely recall having to insert cable card 0 and configuring/pairing it before inserting cable card 1 (back when I configured the S3 for Comcast service a few years ago), so I guess I will try to nudge the Verizon installer in that direction to be safe.


The instruction say to do that but there isn't any real reason to do one vice the other. the machines just sees them as two different tuners to be paired.



MapleLeaf said:


> Thanks again, and I'll let you know how it goes!


MY sister just had hers done two weeks ago, it was flawless. They got the ONT installed and the cable cards were paired nearly instantly as opposed to comcast which has managed to mess both my Tivos up at least once or twice by sending the wrong authorization data to the cards. And they always insist on rolling a tech when the problems has nothing to do with my end. He pulls the card, puts them back, makes a call giving them the same numbers they already have.... Stupid. I think Verizon, being a more technically oriented company to start has better training and techs. Good luck.


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## Jonathan_S

richsadams said:


> For the Series3 I did admonish him that he needed to insert cable card 0 first, pair it and then cable card 1. He said he didn't think so and at about that time he became distracted with a phone call from another tech asking for advice...so quite honestly after showing him the cable card screens (Messages and Settings > Accnt and System Info > Cable Card Decoders > Config Cable Card > Cable Card Menu > Cable Card Pairing > Phew!) he proceeded on his own. Between entering the 3 appropriate numbers on his netbook and such he was able to get things up and running pretty quickly. I know there are some aspects of VZ cable card setups that are different than Comcast's/cableco's, but I'm not sure if it affects the "always pair cable card 0 first..." bit or not. He didn't seem to think that was necessary and I missed seeing if that's what he did or not.


As I understand it, the main reason TiVo recommends pairing the cards one at a time is that it _significantly_ simplifies troubleshooting if one of them doesn't pair correctly.

So it's a good idea to install card 0 and test it before installing card 1, but not strictly _required_.


----------



## richsadams

Jonathan_S said:


> As I understand it, the main reason TiVo recommends pairing the cards one at a time is that it _significantly_ simplifies troubleshooting if one of them doesn't pair correctly.
> 
> So it's a good idea to install card 0 and test it before installing card 1, but not strictly _required_.


Makes sense. However, IIRC aren't there posts that indicated that when the cableco tech tried to do CC 1 first (Vs 0) or both at the same time that problems arose?


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## tdel73

richsadams said:


> Makes sense. However, IIRC aren't there posts that indicated that when the cableco tech tried to do CC 1 first (Vs 0) or both at the same time that problems arose?


When I had FIOS installed my tech installed both CC before having them paired and I'm not having any problems, but I don't know if that is the smart way to go.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

tdel73 said:


> When I had FIOS installed my tech installed both CC before having them paired and I'm not having any problems, but I don't know if that is the smart way to go.


I could be wrong, but my understanding is that the pairing procedure required for Comcast is different than the procedure required for FiOS.

The nature of the difference is that FiOS doesn't really pair CCs to a specific box, only to the account. Much simpler that way. Not sure what keeps you from then taking that CC to your neighbor's house. Maybe the CC is also somehow paired to a specific ONT?


----------



## richsadams

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I could be wrong, but my understanding is that the pairing procedure required for Comcast is different than the procedure required for FiOS.
> 
> The nature of the difference is that FiOS doesn't really pair CCs to a specific box, only to the account. Much simpler that way.


I believe that is the case. Then it would make sense that it doesn't matter which CC is paired first, last or if the info for both is sent down the line at the same time.


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## Distortedloop

Phantom Gremlin said:


> ...Not sure what keeps you from then taking that CC to your neighbor's house. Maybe the CC is also somehow paired to a specific ONT?


And I've often wondered what would be the big deal and objection to cable companies or FIOS if you did take your cable/FIOS box or TiVo to a friend's or neighbor's for the evening. It's kind of like the software license agreement that says you can only use the software on one computer at a time, or an actual physical book (perhaps a better analogy) - you're only watching YOUR account on one TV at any given moment in time. It's not like plugging in at a neighbor who will never pay for subscription channels is making the cable company lose revenue.

Has anyone ever tried this? It would be an interesting legal question to test.


----------



## wkearney99

The the box would only work if the location already service. But presumably you're talking about being able to use the box to obtain channels not already subscribed to using the existing box. Not sure how many people would want to undertake the hassle of plugging/unplugging the equipment to do it.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

Distortedloop said:


> And I've often wondered what would be the big deal and objection to cable companies or FIOS if you did take your cable/FIOS box or TiVo to a friend's or neighbor's for the evening. It's kind of like the software license agreement that says you can only use the software on one computer at a time, or an actual physical book (perhaps a better analogy) - you're only watching YOUR account on one TV at any given moment in time. It's not like plugging in at a neighbor who will never pay for subscription channels is making the cable company lose revenue.
> 
> Has anyone ever tried this? It would be an interesting legal question to test.


Putting aside technical issues for a moment: I wonder if the Terms Of Service stipulates that you have agreed to use your service(s) only at the address that is on your bill / account? If so, then taking your service, TiVo, STb etc., to another location would be breaking the TOS.

I'm sure it's buried in the TOS somewhere


----------



## almahix

pilotbob said:


> They have been charging me $2.99 per card also. Which is exactaly what their price schedule says. Although I have had them for a long time. It is my understanding that currently they ONLY have M cards. Are you sure you don't have 2 M cards? If so, pull one out, and bring it back and they will stop charging you for it.
> 
> I paid $0 for my install... but that was way back when they first brought service into this area. I think I am in my third year with FiOS...
> 
> BOb


I recently bought a third Tivo HD, and when I ordered the cable card I told Verizon that I wanted an M card, and I wanted to replace the 4 S cards in the other 2 Tivos with 2 M cards, and they said they could do all of that, no problem! Even though it ultimately got done right by a knowledgeable technician, the ordering was a nightmare requiring several long phone calls and rescheduling dropped appointments. The tech said he 'could' take back my old cards and an STB, but he said it wasn't on the order and I 'might' never get credit for their return unless I did it myself at the VZ store about 20 miles away!

So now I pay less monthly for 3 M cards than I did for 4 S cards and an STB. I expected them to charge the 79.99 truck roll charge too, but it wasn't on my bill.


----------



## bkdtv

almahix said:


> So now I pay less monthly for 3 M cards than I did for 4 S cards and an STB. I expected them to charge the 79.99 truck roll charge too, but it wasn't on my bill.


Looks like you waited just long enough. Verizon eliminated the $79.99 truck roll for CableCards in late April.


----------



## webin

bkdtv said:


> Looks like you waited just long enough. Verizon eliminated the $79.99 truck roll for CableCards in late April.


Wha?? I haven't heard this. Does that mean I could have them someone out to swap my 2 (fully functional) S-Cards for 1 M-Card and save myself $4/month?

Also: Does that mean I'd have to clean up my living room so I wouldn't feel completely embarased to have someone visit?


----------



## bkdtv

webin said:


> Wha?? I haven't heard this. Does that mean I could have them someone out to swap my 2 (fully functional) S-Cards for 1 M-Card and save myself $4/month?


When you add a new CableCard to your service, there is no charge for the installation visit, even if you have other cards swapped out at the same time. I don't know if the charge applies for those that want to swap out and remove S-CARDs.

I have heard that the CableCard rates increase from $2.99/mo (legacy pricing) to $3.99/ea when you swap out cards.


----------



## webin

bkdtv said:


> I have heard that the CableCard rates increase from $2.99/mo (legacy pricing) to $3.99/ea when you swap out cards.


I'm already paying $3.99 per card ($7.98 total). I got my cards about 2 weeks after the price change in March 2008. If I feel up to the hassle, I may look into this.


----------



## tornZorak

Hi Folks,
After reading tons in this thread I had Verizon over to upgrade an existing double play (with DirectTv/HDRV2) to a triple play (Tivo HD XL). Lots of good advice lead to a relatively easy installation. There were a few snags mostly due to the tech not knowing what to do. I thought I would summarize what happened so that others in the Boston area can be armed with that knowledge.

Ordering: as mentioned by multiple folks the rep who took my order insisting and even "verified" that Verizon only has single-stream cable cards. This resulted in 4 cards being added to my order. The tech said that they only carry multi-stream cards now no matter what the order says. Interestingly the techs are not permitted to carry cable cards - the supervisor controls the stock and gives out the cards on the day of installation. This lead to the tech needing to wait for his supervisor in order to get the cards for my job.

After a bit of wiring we were ready for activation. I was getting two Tivo HD and one cable box installed. In case anyone cares he installed one 2 line splitter to handle the Verizon MoCA router and another 4 line splitter to handle the remaining Tivo's, etc. The MoCA router was connected to my regular home router via its LAN port. This means I am NOT using the verizon router for internet access in my house (I have a Cisco business class router for that). This works just fine - the tech will be very clueless about if it will work or not. Note that the Verizon router will be invisible to your home network since it is connected as if it was connected to the internet (firewall, etc). Do not connect your Tivo's to this router.

The tech has a tool called TechWizard that seems to auto discover the Verizon cable boxes and automatically activates them. It appears that the cable box did contain a cable card. This seems to make activation of these cable boxes really trivial for the tech. However it does not see the Tivo boxes so this confused the tech. Also note that the TechWizard tool will complain that the Verizon router appears to be behind a firewall resulting in an unsupported configuration. I was sweating a bit here because I did not want to have to reconfigure my entire network (especially DHCP/DNS) just to get their router to be supported. However the tech was okay clicking on the Ok continue anyway button. We spent about 20 minutes trying to figure out how to get the TechWizard tool to see the Tivo's - bottom line is it doesn't. At this point the tech mentioned that their is another way to activate cable cards (why didn't you mention this earlier!  So he finished activating the router and cable box and we moved on.

To activate the Tivo cable cards he needed to use his laptop to VPN into Verizon and connect to a special cable card web screen that allows him to enter the information. Most of it was fairly straight forward - serial number , host id, data. However the screen was asking for "POD-ID" which he did not know what it was. However based upon the pattern of numbers it wanted (we entered zeros to see this) we realized it was the Cable Card ID. Once entered both Tivos activated quickly and we were good to go.

It did take a further 10 minutes for the Tivo's to load data. Please note that I had run guided setup the night before on both Tivo's so that they already had guide data, etc. I'm guessing they needed data that came down the cable card channel.

In the end it was actually pretty trivial to setup the cable cards. The only complication was the tech didn't know what to do. It probably should have taken 90 minutes to do everything but it ended up taking 3.5 hours.

BTW - I have not had any real trouble with pixelation. Only 2 channels have had it (GSN and one other). I noted that the Tivo showed wide signal strength fluctuation on these two channels (not on other channels). One of the 4 taps on the 4-port splitter had nothing connected to it so I added a terminator. This eliminated the fluctuating signals and almost all of the pixelation. Also note that everything appears hot (rarely does a channel have under 100 for signal strength). However this does not appear to be causing any harm.

Summary:
- Verizon router does not need to be your primary router. It works fine as a secondary router for TV only (remember to shut off it's wireless).
- The TechWizard application cannot be used to activate the Tivo's
- The tech needs to use the old style cable card setup tools (web)
- A Pod ID is the cable card Host ID

Moving from SD DirectTv to FiOS Extreme HD is amazing. While I realized I was not watching a good quality signal I have to confess I didn't realize just how terrible it was. Once the MRV speed of the Tivo HD was fixed I was ready to move off my old HDVR2 Tivo's (which had all kinds of goodies in it that I didn't want to loose).

Thanks for all the nuggets of information in this thread. It helped quite a bit in ensuring that I knew the right questions and could help the tech puzzle out the bits he didn't know/understand.


----------



## richsadams

tornZorak said:


> After reading tons in this thread I had Verizon over to upgrade an existing double play (with DirectTv/HDRV2) to a triple play (Tivo HD XL). Lots of good advice lead to a relatively easy installation. There were a few snags mostly due to the tech not knowing what to do. I thought I would summarize what happened so that others in the Boston area can be armed with that knowledge. <snip>


Nice post with lots of good info. Thanks for that. :up:


----------



## innocentfreak

tornZorak said:


> Hi Folks,
> After reading tons in this thread I had Verizon over to upgrade an existing double play (with DirectTv/HDRV2) to a triple play (Tivo HD XL).


I think I may do the same thing here shortly. I think one of my big dilemmas is the Dtivos have been rock solid for me so I hate to fix what isn't broken. Not that the Tivo HD models are completely buggy but they seem to have more issues pop up at least on the forums. Of course that also comes with new software. Good to hear the install went smoothly though.

Were you able to use your existing Directv runs or did they have to run new lines for you? I have heard some issues with older Directv lines not being up to the standard of cable Fios needs


----------



## tornZorak

innocentfreak said:


> I think I may do the same thing here shortly. I think one of my big dilemmas is the Dtivos have been rock solid for me so I hate to fix what isn't broken. Not that the Tivo HD models are completely buggy but they seem to have more issues pop up at least on the forums. Of course that also comes with new software. Good to hear the install went smoothly though.


Oddly about a year ago I had one of the Dtivos start to have severe pixelation on one of the tuners. I swapped out everything downstream of the Dtivo and it didn't improve - that means the tuner went bad. So I bought one off Ebay and life was good.

About three weeks ago my other Dtivo started having the same problem. Ugh. I decided I didn't want to go through yet another Ebay, get access card, etc experience. Perhaps it was time to really upgrade 

I really thought hard about buying the HD versus the HD XL. Huge price difference. However I couldn't have lived with the HD harddisk size so it would have been extra money to add more hard disks externally. The real decision was I was unwilling to crack open the case and do a proper upgrade because I didn't want to violate my warranty 1 day into ownership. Fortunately Amazon had/has really decent pricing on the XL so I ended up getting 2 of those.

They immediately updated to 11.0c and they've been rock solid. Granted they've only been running 2 weeks... but still absolutely no problems. Every bit as stable as the Dtivos were. The only minor nits are there are many more options on the screens so they are more cluttered and there are a few adds that I find offensive due to the fact that I pay for service.

However the nits are ignored due to Netflix support - brilliant! The quality is quite good and FiOS internet makes for a rock solid experience (streaming performance). Even the HD movies are perfect.



> Were you able to use your existing Directv runs or did they have to run new lines for you? I have heard some issues with older Directv lines not being up to the standard of cable Fios needs


Well I installed my previous DirectTv installation (dish, wiring, etc). As such I used RG6U-QuadShield on all wiring with home runs to a wiring panel in the basement. I believe this is what Verizon normally uses so they were able to reuse all of my wiring.

As long as you have decent wiring (RG6) you should be okay. Not sure if you'll have problems with RG59 especially if the runs are long. What kind of wiring do you currently have (it's printed on the cable)? How long are the runs (10', 75' 150')?


----------



## bankshot

tornZorak said:


> After reading tons in this thread I had Verizon over to upgrade an existing double play (with DirectTv/HDRV2) to a triple play (Tivo HD XL). Lots of good advice lead to a relatively easy installation. There were a few snags mostly due to the tech not knowing what to do. I thought I would summarize what happened so that others in the Boston area can be armed with that knowledge.


We had FiOS installed here in southern California this past week, with a VERY similar experience to yours. Right down to Verizon insisting over the phone that they only have single-stream cards, but in reality the techs bringing multi-stream cards (yay).

We received our TiVo HD XL from Amazon.com a few days before FiOS installation and initially set it up for OTA. I made sure I forced it to update to the latest software so everything would be ready for the FiOS. It's our first TiVo after having used (or endured) two different DVRs from Time Warner Cable. I'll try to post general impressions of that separately after another week or two of use, but so far we're pretty impressed and excited.

In preparation for the FiOS install, I ran a Cat5e cable from my networking closet out to where the ONT would be installed. I wanted the flexibility of being able to use my own router as primary if I didn't like the one provided by Verizon. The tech was happy to connect the ONT via the Cat5e, though he did seem a little bit confused as to why I wanted it that way.

For the most part, I tried to stay out of the tech's way as he installed everything. We had the ONT installed outside, on the side of the house where electricity and POTS come in. The battery backup went inside the house on the other side of that wall, at the back of a high shelf in the kitchen where it could be easily hidden from view.

About 2 hours into the installation, he had the phone up and running on the fiber and was ready to move on to TV and internet. The Westell router was setup in my network closet, using the Cat5e from the ONT and the existing RG6 that was previously hooked up to my cable modem. After hooking up the router to my own network, internet was up and running.

For the cablecard install, he had to get a second tech to bring the card(s) because he didn't have any on his truck. They were planning to install 2 cards in the TiVo because like the people I'd spoken to on the phone, both techs believed they only had S-cards. I handed them the TiVo instruction sheet for cablecards and let them do their thing. They had to plug into my home network for connectivity on their laptop because apparently the cellular signal wasn't good enough here. Good thing I had an extra port wired in the family room!

Both techs seemed to be somewhat unfamiliar with the cablecard installation/activation process, but they eventually got it working. Both were surprised to see that the TiVo was reporting the first card as multi-stream. After initially trying to install and configure the second card, one of the techs decided to pull it out and try recording 2 channels with only the first card. That worked, confirming that they did indeed have M-cards. We're happy to save the $3.99/month on the second card.

Overall things went pretty smoothly, though it did take the quoted 4-6 hours when all was said and done. No issues with picture quality or with receiving any channels in these first 6 days or so. We're quite happy with the service so far, and the simultaneous switch from the Time Warner DVR to the TiVo has been fantastic as well.

On the internet side of things, I did decide to make my own router the primary router with the Westell sitting inside my network as a Cat5e-to-MOCA bridge. Works great and it saved me the hassle of applying all my custom configurations to the Westell. I will say that it seemed pretty solid from what I saw in its configuration pages, and more than likely it could have worked well as the primary router if I'd taken the time to configure it.

I, too, want to thank everyone who's shared tidbits of information on this thread and in this forum. I've been soaking up all the information here for several weeks in preparation for this install and the switch to the TiVo.


----------



## mae

For those of you considering the big switch, there was an insert in the bill I received today on their next offer (starts Sunday 6/21):

Good news: Free Compaq netbook ($299 value), customer pays tax and shipping

Bad News: New rate of $119, $10 more than current offer
A $50 activation fee
No 2 year price guarantee

So, to compare to the current $150 rebate, add $120 for 12 months and the activation fee of $50, it comes to $320 or $20 more for the netbook. There are rumors of an internet speed increase (not mentioned in the insert) and they might waive the $50 activation fee, since they have sometimes mentioned a $35 activation fee they didn't charge me in March. But there's still the lack of the 2 year guarantee, which could add significantly in the second year.

I've posted the whole insert at BBR, http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r22557296-Next-VZ-Offer

Hope this helps those deciding when/if to pull the trigger. I can say that I've had no problems with Verizon service or billing in the three months since I left Comcast. (I am still trying to get a final bill from Comcast and the ~$5.00 they owe me.)

Mark


----------



## flynz4

richsadams said:


> Nice post with lots of good info. Thanks for that. :up:


Rich,

Since you are on the same network as me (Portland Verizon Fios), I thought I would ask a few questions directly.

My current setup is 3 Verizon FIOS set top boxes/DVRs which I am replacing. I was too spoiled from my days using Tivo Direct TV boxes. I have been on FIOS for about 18 months, and it has been working great for internet/phone/TV. All three DVRs get their TV signal and network signal over the single coax cable.

I have ordered, and waiting for a Tivo HD XL, and two Tivo HDs. I am not too sure when they will be arrive, but they should certainly be here by early July... and I would like to schedule an equipment change at that time.

Here are my questions:

1) I do not have separate internet drops to each of the 3 locations. I can wire to two of them if necessary... but the third is virtually impossible. I know that I can use the WiFi adapters from Tivo (and I will have them available). Should I use them or should I run hard wired internet connections to two of the Tivos?

2) Related to #1, is there any way to get the internet signals off of the existing coax runs to the the FIOS DVRs? I assume that the Tivo does not have an internal tap to the internet signal.

3) How long in advance should I call Verizon for an installation? Is the lead time long enough that I should make an appointment before my equipment arrives?

4) I believe that you have M Cable cards. Should I request those? If so, will I need 3 or 6 for my three Tivos?

5) If I hook up my new Tivos by myself before I have cable cards... will I be able to see anything on the FIOS netowrk?

6) Is there any way to increase my storage of Tivo recordings onto some NAS storage array's that I have on my home network already?

That's it for now. Thanks in advance.

/Jim


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

flynz4 said:


> 1) I do not have separate internet drops to each of the 3 locations. I can wire to two of them if necessary... but the third is virtually impossible. I know that I can use the WiFi adapters from Tivo (and I will have them available). Should I use them or should I run hard wired internet connections to two of the Tivos?


The WiFi adapter works great for letting a TiVo HD download its guide info. However, in my case my wireless signal level is marginal enough that I can't transfer HD recordings in anything approximating real time between one hard wired TiVo HD and one WiFi TiVo HD.

Read the sticky messages above for more details about transfer speed. If fast program transfer is important to you, the WiFi might not be good enough.



> 2) Related to #1, is there any way to get the internet signals off of the existing coax runs to the the FIOS DVRs? I assume that the Tivo does not have an internal tap to the internet signal.


There are MoCA adapters which can get Internet over coax, provided you have things set up properly. Here is a thread discussing that. The NIM100 is now hard to get, but there are other brands available (you will have to do further research on your own; I don't personally use MoCA and don't have detailed knowledge).

Using something like a NIM100 you don't even need a diplexer to tap the signal. The NIM100 has a coax pass thru, so all you would need to do is wire it in series between the coax wall outlet and your TiVo HD.


----------



## flynz4

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Using something like a NIM100 you don't even need a diplexer to tap the signal. The NIM100 has a coax pass thru, so all you would need to do is wire it in series between the coax wall outlet and your TiVo HD.


Phantom Gremlin,

I was just coming back here to post an update after reading for many hours on this forum and saw that you have already replied. Thank you.

I indeed came to the same conclusion that a MoCA is the best solution. I called and canceled the orders for my Tivo WiFi adapters, and ordered 3 MoCA adapters instead.

Now my questions #1 and #2 are answered. Would still love to hear input on the rest.

/Jim


----------



## bkdtv

You can save a lot of money on MoCA adapters by opting to use the [more power hungry] Actiontec or Westell routers in their place. These can often be had for $20-$30/ea on ebay. I haven't gotten around to updating the FAQ with that information, but instructions are here:

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/verizonfios/3.0_Networking#15984


----------



## flynz4

bkdtv said:


> You can save a lot of money on MoCA adapters by opting to use the [more power hungry] Actiontec or Westell routers in their place. These can often be had for $20-$30/ea on ebay. I haven't gotten around to updating the FAQ with that information, but instructions are here:


I already have the three Motorola NIM100 units on order. I guess I spent a $100 more than necessary... but that is OK, I am still satisfied that I made a good choice over the WiFi adapters.

BTW: It was your excellent post (TivoHD Overview) that caused me to pick the MoCA.

/Jim


----------



## richsadams

flynz4 said:


> Rich,
> 
> Since you are on the same network as me (Portland Verizon Fios), I thought I would ask a few questions directly.
> 
> My current setup is 3 Verizon FIOS set top boxes/DVRs which I am replacing. I was too spoiled from my days using Tivo Direct TV boxes. I have been on FIOS for about 18 months, and it has been working great for internet/phone/TV. All three DVRs get their TV signal and network signal over the single coax cable.
> 
> I have ordered, and waiting for a Tivo HD XL, and two Tivo HDs. I am not too sure when they will be arrive, but they should certainly be here by early July... and I would like to schedule an equipment change at that time.
> 
> Here are my questions:


Sorry for the delay in my response...traveling recently with little time for my real passions. Darn work gets in the way sometimes doesn't it? 



flynz4 said:


> 1) I do not have separate internet drops to each of the 3 locations. I can wire to two of them if necessary... but the third is virtually impossible. I know that I can use the WiFi adapters from Tivo (and I will have them available). Should I use them or should I run hard wired internet connections to two of the Tivos?


I think you already received good advice from several folks here.



flynz4 said:


> 2) Related to #1, is there any way to get the internet signals off of the existing coax runs to the the FIOS DVRs? I assume that the Tivo does not have an internal tap to the internet signal.


Same as above.



flynz4 said:


> 3) How long in advance should I call Verizon for an installation? Is the lead time long enough that I should make an appointment before my equipment arrives?


I'd call them now. They are busy and IIRC it was at least three weeks before they could come out on a date that I could live with.



flynz4 said:


> 4) I believe that you have M Cable cards. Should I request those? If so, will I need 3 or 6 for my three Tivos?


All VZ has is "M" (multi-stream) cable cards now. You will need one for each unit.



flynz4 said:


> 5) If I hook up my new Tivos by myself before I have cable cards... will I be able to see anything on the FIOS netowrk?


I wasn't clear about what you have now and to be honest I'm not sure but I believe that you would receive all of the basic channels and any digital that are in the clear. I think someone else posted about that?



flynz4 said:


> 6) Is there any way to increase my storage of Tivo recordings onto some NAS storage array's that I have on my home network already?


Depending on your computer setup you can transfer recordings using TiVo Desktop or some of the other freebie apps. I use Mac's and iTiVo does a very good job...much better than TiVo Desktop at transferring recordings. PyTiVo (or for Mac PyTiVoX) can get them back to your TiVo later. How you store them is your call of course. There's a lot more about transferring recordings, converting them, streaming, etc. on the TiVo Home Media Features and TiVo To Go Forum. The good news is that VZ does not copy protect material. :up:

For me simply upgrading the hard drive space is easier than transferring recordings back and forth. Since you will have three you could easily make one a "storage" unit for MRV (multi-room viewing). Your TiVo HDXL and a Western Digital My DVR Expander would give you 2TB's of recording space and still keep everything under warranty.

I have a couple of posts about my VZ FIOS install experience here and here if you want some additional details.

Enjoy your new TiVos!


----------



## flynz4

richsadams said:


> I wasn't clear about what you have now and to be honest I'm not sure but I believe that you would receive all of the basic channels and any digital that are in the clear. I think someone else posted about that?


Rich,

We already have Verizon Fios (for about 15 months)... but we have been using their crappy DVRs. Prior to Fios, we had Tivo Direct TV (SD), but switched to Fios once we started buying HD televisions. My wife is so fed up with Verizon DVRs that she was asking to go back to the old vacuum tube SD televisions (with bang-on-the-side intermittent picture display) just to get her Tivo back.

My three new Tivo units (2 HD, 1 HD XL) will arrive in about a week or so. I am wondering what I will see if I plug them into my existing Fios network without cable cards. My expectation is zilch... but I am not positive. I have scheduled the three multi-stream cable card installation in 2.5 weeks based on my wife's schedule to sit home and wait for "the cable guy" to come and install the cards. I am just wondering if I can switch out the crappy Verizon boxes in advance, and still view anything on Tivo.

Thanks in advance.

/Jim


----------



## warehouse

Just bought two TIVO HDs during the Father's Day sale and I'm already having trouble with Verizon. I tried to order my cable cards on-line on Friday and some guy popped up on chat and tried to help me. Ordered what he told me to and then followed up on my local Verizon service number to ask about returning my STBs. They informed that I had ordered the wrong thing and since it was the weekend, that I would have to wait until today to call the on-line support to have them fix it. They also insisted that a service tech would have to come out to the house. 

Called on-line support today and they canceled the old order and placed a new order for the cable cards. They told me that I could either have a tech come out for $80 or they would mail me the cards. I told them to mail them to me. Now I'm a little worried that this will all work out. My specific concerns are:

1. Will they actually mail me the cards and if so, will I be able to pair/activate them myself by calling tech support? I checked my account on line and it doesn't show any pending orders. 
2. Will they send me m-cards or s-cards? I've told each person that I want m-cards? 
3. How many more hours I will have to spend on hold with Verizon?

Any advice from you experts would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## sender_name

flynz4 said:


> Rich,
> 
> .
> 
> My three new Tivo units (2 HD, 1 HD XL) will arrive in about a week or so. I am wondering what I will see if I plug them into my existing Fios network without cable cards. My expectation is zilch...
> /Jim


Correct...zilch...It's not like cable...Fios tv requires something to decode it, like the cable cards.


----------



## bkdtv

warehouse said:


> 1. Will they actually mail me the cards and if so, will I be able to pair/activate them myself by calling tech support? I checked my account on line and it doesn't show any pending orders.
> 2. Will they send me m-cards or s-cards? I've told each person that I want m-cards?
> 3. How many more hours I will have to spend on hold with Verizon?
> 
> Any advice from you experts would be greatly appreciated!


Verizon's order system only lists CableCards. They can't specify a particular card type. But if you order a CableCard, you will get a M-CARD.

Verizon no longer has anything but M-CARDs in any service area. Verizon hasn't offered S-Cards in any service area for months. Most service areas haven't had S-CARDs since last fall. Unfortunately, the reps on the phone are not educated as to this fact. Many still think that Verizon only offers S-CARDs which is outdated information.

Verizon will not ship CableCards *under any circumstances*, nor do they allow self installs. Unfortunately, this is not clear at all in Verizon's order system; to the representative, it looks like they can place a shipment order just as they can for the Motorola STBs and DVRs. But any such shipment order for CableCards will never complete. CableCards always require a truck roll, no matter what the sales rep told you on the phone.

The $79.99 "truck roll" charge is is meant to encourage customers to accept equipment by mail and discourage users from demanding a truck roll. As of April, the truck roll for CableCards is supposed to be free because the shipment option is not available; Verizon requires a technician to install them. Call the sales department and escalate (ask for a supervisor), then mention that fact. Reiterate that you are entirely comfortable installing the cards yourself, but that Verizon refuses to ship them to you.


----------



## hansenc

I'm fighting with FiOS now about Cable Cards, called last night and ordered 4 cards and told they would ship. However I didn't receive an order number so I called back today to get that, I was then told that they are required to roll a tech out to do the install and that I would get this wonderful "fee" i told them that was crap and asked for a supervisor. She then told me that yes they can ship out the cards and they can be activated over the phone and I was even given the number to call to directly activate them. I'm not sure what to think after reading your post so I might call back later.


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## hansenc

So looks as if I do have a tech coming out on the first to do the cable cards, was told the fee is waved. Now I just hope my Tivo's come before the tech lol.


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## flynz4

bkdtv said:


> Verizon's order system only lists CableCards. They can't specify a particular card type. But if you order a CableCard, you will get a M-CARD.
> 
> Verizon no longer has anything but M-CARDs in any service area. Verizon hasn't offered S-Cards in any service area for months. Most service areas haven't had S-CARDs since last fall. Unfortunately, the reps on the phone are not educated as to this fact. Many still think that Verizon only offers S-CARDs which is outdated information.
> 
> Verizon will not ship CableCards *under any circumstances*, nor do they allow self installs. Unfortunately, this is not clear at all in Verizon's order system; to the representative, it looks like they can place a shipment order just as they can for the Motorola STBs and DVRs. But any such shipment order for CableCards will never complete. CableCards always require a truck roll, no matter what the sales rep told you on the phone.
> 
> *The $79.99 "truck roll" charge is is meant to encourage customers to accept equipment by mail and discourage users from demanding a truck roll. As of April, the truck roll for CableCards is supposed to be free because the shipment option is not available; Verizon requires a technician to install them. Call the sales department and escalate (ask for a supervisor), then mention that fact. Reiterate that you are entirely comfortable installing the cards yourself, but that Verizon refuses to ship them to you.*


I called and ordered my cable cards yesterday. At first they were going to ship them... but then said that the order could not go through... and then discovered that indeed a truck roll was necessary.

They said that prior to yesterday, they could waive the $79 fee... but they just installed a new system and they no longer have the option. It looks like I will have to call back and escalate.

Thank you for your post. I will watch this one closely to see if others are able to get the $79 fee waived.

/Jim


----------



## ciucca

warehouse said:


> Just bought two TIVO HDs during the Father's Day sale and I'm already having trouble with Verizon. I tried to order my cable cards on-line on Friday and some guy popped up on chat and tried to help me. Ordered what he told me to and then followed up on my local Verizon service number to ask about returning my STBs. They informed that I had ordered the wrong thing and since it was the weekend, that I would have to wait until today to call the on-line support to have them fix it. They also insisted that a service tech would have to come out to the house.
> 
> Called on-line support today and they canceled the old order and placed a new order for the cable cards. They told me that I could either have a tech come out for $80 or they would mail me the cards. I told them to mail them to me. Now I'm a little worried that this will all work out. My specific concerns are:
> 
> 1. Will they actually mail me the cards and if so, will I be able to pair/activate them myself by calling tech support? I checked my account on line and it doesn't show any pending orders.
> 2. Will they send me m-cards or s-cards? I've told each person that I want m-cards?
> 3. How many more hours I will have to spend on hold with Verizon?
> 
> Any advice from you experts would be greatly appreciated!


I can safely save Verizon will never mail you the cards. At least as of today the policy is to have a truck roll. I think they instituted this policy to discourage people from getting TIVOs.

2 possible reasons are:

They want your $15.99 a month instead of $3.99.

Tivo owners tend to complain the most about picture quality and pixelation. A little birdie told me Verizon is 1000% convinced the issue is with TIVO and they do not wish to deal with it, since sending techs out to trouble shoot 3rd party equipment costs a lot of money, and only leads to overall price increases for everyone.


----------



## Jack D

bkdtv said:


> Verizon no longer has anything but M-CARDs in any service area. Verizon hasn't offered S-Cards in any service area for months. Most service areas haven't had S-CARDs since last fall. Unfortunately, the reps on the phone are not educated as to this fact. Many still think that Verizon only offers S-CARDs which is outdated information.


So that means you cannot use an S3 if you have Verizon.....


----------



## CrispyCritter

Jack D said:


> So that means you cannot use an S3 if you have Verizon.....


No, M-cards work fine in S3s, but they will run in S-card compatibility mode so you need two of them.


----------



## lew

Jack D said:


> So that means you cannot use an S3 if you have Verizon.....


The S3 will work with 2 M cards.


----------



## rocko

Jack D said:


> So that means you cannot use an S3 if you have Verizon.....


As others have stated, all TiVo models work fine with FIOS. See my sig for equipment - all of which works great. My problem is the Series 2 DT models operate as single-tuner boxes because Verizon does not provide analog programming. Hence, they only use the STBs attached - the internal analog tuner is worthless. I'd like to replace them with HD models but it would be better if I got a job first 

My S3 has 2 'S' cards but will work fine with *either* 2 'M' cards *or* one 'S' *and * 1 'M' card.

My THD works fine with 2 'S' cards but would function just fine with a single 'M' card. Unfortunately, Verizon didn't offer multistream cards at the time of my THD install.


----------



## hansenc

Just to make sure I'm reading this correctly, I do not need two cable cards then for my Tivo HD as long as I get a M card?


----------



## innocentfreak

Correct and I would still ask for M-cards when you call. My friend had his install this past week and they brought S-cards originally so apparently they are still out there.


----------



## blacksnakeball

I am one of those unfortunate FIOS hot signal guys. My new Tivo HD XL just doesn't seem to like the FIOS signal. I have been on this board and the Tivo forum and got some great advice on numerous occasions from bfdtv and others. I have tried a low pass filter and many different combinations of attenuators. I have tried the Radio Shack dial attenuator. But my signal issues have gotten worse over the past month.

I want to love Tivo. I was an early adopter with Replay TV and would still own that box if it could record HD. I spent years with a SA 8300 HD Explorer with Time Warner Cable in Manhattan but I could not pass up the speed and price of FIOS and hate TWC anyway. I started with the crappy Motos from Verizon and had overheating issues and hard drive failure within 2 weeks on my first box. I did some research here and fell in love with Tivo and bought the XL on April 25th.

From day one I have tried the signal fix and I have spent quite a bit of time with VZ at my home (they ave been pretty good about trying to fix on their end) I have also let Tivo know since day one that I am experiencing signal issues.

I met a guy on the Tivo boards who told me he was in a beta program and that a patch was imminent but could not tell me anymore. He said dont waste time with VZ coming to your apartment with any more attenuator crap- there will be a patch.

Based on that info and the totally random nature of my signal issues I have decided to try and wait it out as long as I can before my wife and daughter turn on me. The signal seems to go hot whenever we switch to a channel that is important to us. For me it is SNY in NYC -the Mets channel. I cannot watch a game anymore! My wife has issues with HBO and my daughter's kiddie shows seem to have to problem too. Sometimes the pixellation will be heavy for 10 minutes and then dissipate. Other times I can get a week straight of rock solid picture but lately it has been consistently bad. When it is bad the SNR fluctuates from 37-29 and the signal strength goes from 100-45. The RS uncorrected have been appearing more and more on channels we did not see them on before.

A few weeks into my trial month I called to complain to Tivo and they waived my monthly charge. A few weeks into my second month I called to complain but had to take it up to the next level of CS to get them to give me another month credit. I actually agreed to cancel my service because i was so upset with them. It is set to expire in 3 days.

Still I delay any decisions because I want to believe this can be fixed. I decided I had 3 options. Do nothing and hope that the beta fix comes in soon (yes i have registered for the beta and have begged Tivo to bring me in but their CS people are clueless) Secondly, I though maybe a new cable card from VZ might solve my problems and third I thought perhaps a new box from Tivo might work. Obviously there are people with Tivo and FIOS who are enjoying cable TV - I want to be THAT guy. Anyone think a new card or box might do the trick?

If I can't solve this problem soon I want to return the unit and get my MONEY back. I called J&R Music World where I purchased the box in April and they said any return after 30 days must go through manufacturer. I called Tivo today to find out their return and/or replacement policy and got into a huge pissing match. Basically there L2 tech support rep told me that since it is over 30 days I cannot return the box under any circumstances!!! He says it is a FIOS problem and I waited more than 30 days! He says that since by canceling my monthly service a few weeks ago that somehow this precludes me from pursuing a return or replacement. He says I cannot even get a refurb at cost to me. WTF???

I know I am getting bad info and I am livid. I would consider swapping out the box but I do not want a refurb and do not want to pay anything for shipping. The Tivo L2 guy says I cannot swap or even make a return because there is nothing wrong with the box and it is past 30 days. I asked him how he did not know it was a hard drive issue and even though all signs point to signal problem how can they rule out hardware issues. He said it did not matter I am stuck with this 2 month old box and can only sell it on ebay!

Of course now I just want to return this box and recoup my $5oo+ that I shelled out for it in April. Perhaps I will wait tilll there is a FIOS fix or perhaps I will never buy a Tivo again!

But how would any of you proceed? Are there some corporate people at Tivo that will listen to reason? I went from being a Tivo evangelical to a Tivo hater in one 20 minute phone call.

They have a known issue and yet do not inform consumers that they might experience signal issue with a major provider of HD content? I got the sense that they also know they have problems in Manhattan but of course cannot prove it. What about my 90 day warranty? All I know is the box doesn't work with my cable provider.

Thoughts? Sorry to ramble on but I am spitting blood


----------



## randyb359

blacksnakeball said:


> I am one of those unfortunate FIOS hot signal guys. My new Tivo HD XL just doesn't seem to like the FIOS signal. I have been on this board and the Tivo forum and got some great advice on numerous occasions from bfdtv and others. I have tried a low pass filter and many different combinations of attenuators. I have tried the Radio Shack dial attenuator. But my signal issues have gotten worse over the past month.
> 
> I want to love Tivo. I was an early adopter with Replay TV and would still own that box if it could record HD. I spent years with a SA 8300 HD Explorer with Time Warner Cable in Manhattan but I could not pass up the speed and price of FIOS and hate TWC anyway. I started with the crappy Motos from Verizon and had overheating issues and hard drive failure within 2 weeks on my first box. I did some research here and fell in love with Tivo and bought the XL on April 25th.
> 
> From day one I have tried the signal fix and I have spent quite a bit of time with VZ at my home (they ave been pretty good about trying to fix on their end) I have also let Tivo know since day one that I am experiencing signal issues.
> 
> I met a guy on the Tivo boards who told me he was in a beta program and that a patch was imminent but could not tell me anymore. He said dont waste time with VZ coming to your apartment with any more attenuator crap- there will be a patch.
> 
> Based on that info and the totally random nature of my signal issues I have decided to try and wait it out as long as I can before my wife and daughter turn on me. The signal seems to go hot whenever we switch to a channel that is important to us. For me it is SNY in NYC -the Mets channel. I cannot watch a game anymore! My wife has issues with HBO and my daughter's kiddie shows seem to have to problem too. Sometimes the pixellation will be heavy for 10 minutes and then dissipate. Other times I can get a week straight of rock solid picture but lately it has been consistently bad. When it is bad the SNR fluctuates from 37-29 and the signal strength goes from 100-45. The RS uncorrected have been appearing more and more on channels we did not see them on before.
> 
> A few weeks into my trial month I called to complain to Tivo and they waived my monthly charge. A few weeks into my second month I called to complain but had to take it up to the next level of CS to get them to give me another month credit. I actually agreed to cancel my service because i was so upset with them. It is set to expire in 3 days.
> 
> Still I delay any decisions because I want to believe this can be fixed. I decided I had 3 options. Do nothing and hope that the beta fix comes in soon (yes i have registered for the beta and have begged Tivo to bring me in but their CS people are clueless) Secondly, I though maybe a new cable card from VZ might solve my problems and third I thought perhaps a new box from Tivo might work. Obviously there are people with Tivo and FIOS who are enjoying cable TV - I want to be THAT guy. Anyone think a new card or box might do the trick?
> 
> If I can't solve this problem soon I want to return the unit and get my MONEY back. I called J&R Music World where I purchased the box in April and they said any return after 30 days must go through manufacturer. I called Tivo today to find out their return and/or replacement policy and got into a huge pissing match. Basically there L2 tech support rep told me that since it is over 30 days I cannot return the box under any circumstances!!! He says it is a FIOS problem and I waited more than 30 days! He says that since by canceling my monthly service a few weeks ago that somehow this precludes me from pursuing a return or replacement. He says I cannot even get a refurb at cost to me. WTF???
> 
> I know I am getting bad info and I am livid. I would consider swapping out the box but I do not want a refurb and do not want to pay anything for shipping. The Tivo L2 guy says I cannot swap or even make a return because there is nothing wrong with the box and it is past 30 days. I asked him how he did not know it was a hard drive issue and even though all signs point to signal problem how can they rule out hardware issues. He said it did not matter I am stuck with this 2 month old box and can only sell it on ebay!
> 
> Of course now I just want to return this box and recoup my $5oo+ that I shelled out for it in April. Perhaps I will wait tilll there is a FIOS fix or perhaps I will never buy a Tivo again!
> 
> But how would any of you proceed? Are there some corporate people at Tivo that will listen to reason? I went from being a Tivo evangelical to a Tivo hater in one 20 minute phone call.
> 
> They have a known issue and yet do not inform consumers that they might experience signal issue with a major provider of HD content? I got the sense that they also know they have problems in Manhattan but of course cannot prove it. What about my 90 day warranty? All I know is the box doesn't work with my cable provider.
> 
> Thoughts? Sorry to ramble on but I am spitting blood


Have you checked the connectors on the coax cables? I had problems with pixalation. I would get thousands of rs uncorrected errors in a few minutes sometimes. I tried every combination of attenuators until the picture disappeared. Then one time the connector came off. I had Verizon come out and fix it. Now I still get occasional RS uncorrected errors but they are greatly reduced. I have not seen them hit 1000 since even after several hours tuned to the same station.


----------



## sgip2000

mchad said:


> Ok, so I wonder how they will handle apartments. There are 9 units per floor in my building, and they ran a 4" conduit up the stairwell with a 14"x10" box on each floor. From there, a smaller (2") conduit was run in the hallway above each door to the units...


They will run fiber to a closet in your apartment and then install the ONT there.


----------



## blacksnakeball

I have checked most of my connections but not all. But I also get a rock solid picture on certain channels and even the pixellation on the bad channels will eventually dissipate. My signal issues are so random and persistent that I doubt it is a connector bit I will have the VZ tech check again.

I am really looking for advice on how to return this box until Tivo releases their patch.



randyb359 said:


> Have you checked the connectors on the coax cables? I had problems with pixalation. I would get thousands of rs uncorrected errors in a few minutes sometimes. I tried every combination of attenuators until the picture disappeared. Then one time the connector came off. I had Verizon come out and fix it. Now I still get occasional RS uncorrected errors but they are greatly reduced. I have not seen them hit 1000 since even after several hours tuned to the same station.


----------



## lew

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7348877#post7348877

It looks like the FiOS fix will be released sooner rather then later.

blacksnakeball--Why don't you drop TivoJerry a PM and see if you can be added as "tester".


----------



## lew

bkdtv said:


> You can save a lot of money on MoCA adapters by opting to use the [more power hungry] Actiontec or Westell routers in their place. These can often be had for $20-$30/ea on ebay. I haven't gotten around to updating the FAQ with that information, but instructions are here:
> 
> http://www.dslreports.com/faq/verizonfios/3.0_Networking#15984


I bought an actiontec router on ebay, without a power supply. I assumed one of the "bricks" in my box of stuff would work. Looks like the adapter is 5v but 3amps. I'm going to turn off wireless. A couple of posters in another forum claim the RS unit (1a) works. Does anyone have an opinion?


----------



## pilotbob

blacksnakeball said:


> I have checked most of my connections but not all. But I also get a rock solid picture on certain channels and even the pixellation on the bad channels will eventually dissipate. My signal issues are so random and persistent that I doubt it is a connector bit I will have the VZ tech check again.
> 
> I am really looking for advice on how to return this box until Tivo releases their patch.


Two thoughts...

1. Perhaps you have a flaky cable card. Has VZ tried to replace them?

2. Has TiVo offered to replace your unit? It could of course be defective.

BOb


----------



## warehouse

I'm still having trouble getting my cable cards. My original order went in as "digital adapters" instead of cable cards and they couldn't do anything with their pathetic system until these adapters arrived at my house and that order was marked as complete. Today I received the adapters and promptly took them back to the local Verizon store. The store couldn't order anything so I was forced to make another call to customer service who said that my order was still frozen. They claimed that they will call me back tomorrow to complete the order and then mail me the cable cards. I told them that they couldn't be mailed and she called someone and assured me that they could. 

So tomorrow I'm sure they won't call and I'll have to call again, they will try to mail them, and then after a week they will cancel my order without informing me. I'll then have to call back and start this process over and eventually be charged the $80 for the truck roll. How frustrating!


----------



## innocentfreak

Just a suggestion you may want to post on dslreports in their verizon forums. They have a section where Verizon reps actually handle some issues so they may be able to help you.


----------



## warehouse

innocentfreak said:


> Just a suggestion you may want to post on dslreports in their verizon forums. They have a section where Verizon reps actually handle some issues so they may be able to help you.


I might have to do that. I talked with someone in "Escalation" from Verizon about this problem the other day and they didn't want to budge on the $80 fee. If I end up being charged, I will probably file a complaint with the Maryland Communications Commission since I don't think that this is in the spirit of the law which required the cable cards.


----------



## webin

warehouse said:


> I talked with someone in "Escalation" from Verizon about this problem the other day and they didn't want to budge on the $80 fee. If I end up being charged, I will probably file a complaint with the Maryland Communications Commission since I don't think that this is in the spirit of the law which required the cable cards.


Not to mention they should waive the fee just for good customer support in response to all the run-around you're getting. You might want to start casually mentioning they you're "fed up with how you're being treated and considering dropping the service"... even if it's not true, it might light a fire under them.


----------



## richsadams

webin said:


> You might want to start casually mentioning they you're "fed up with how you're being treated and considering dropping the service"... even if it's not true, it might light a fire under them.


Excellent advice...that will usually get their attention, or at least that of the retention department. The RD seems to have a lot of pull when it comes to keeping people in the system. :up:


----------



## sinanju

warehouse said:


> I'm still having trouble getting my cable cards. My original order went in as "digital adapters" instead of cable cards and they couldn't do anything with their pathetic system until these adapters arrived at my house and that order was marked as complete. Today I received the adapters and promptly took them back to the local Verizon store. The store couldn't order anything so I was forced to make another call to customer service who said that my order was still frozen. They claimed that they will call me back tomorrow to complete the order and then mail me the cable cards. I told them that they couldn't be mailed and she called someone and assured me that they could.
> 
> So tomorrow I'm sure they won't call and I'll have to call again, they will try to mail them, and then after a week they will cancel my order without informing me. I'll then have to call back and start this process over and eventually be charged the $80 for the truck roll. How frustrating!


Try calling +1 800 483 7988. Press "2" when you get to the menu. Explain your problem in polite, pleasant tones. I've had a great deal of luck with those folk lighting fires under the clueless folk I've dealt with in the past.


----------



## blacksnakeball

pilotbob said:


> Two thoughts...
> 
> 1. Perhaps you have a flaky cable card. Has VZ tried to replace them?
> 
> 2. Has TiVo offered to replace your unit? It could of course be defective.
> 
> BOb


they say it is past 30 days even though i have been working all that time to work on a fix. They say it is a FIOS signal problem and that there is no hardware issues with their box.

I have not swapped out the cable card but wil try next...

I can't believe Tivo would reject out of hand, over the phone that this COULD be a hardware issue because I am covered by the 90 day warranty. A faulty tuner perhaps? Hard Drive?


----------



## FiosUser

blacksnakeball said:


> they say it is past 30 days even though i have been working all that time to work on a fix. They say it is a FIOS signal problem and that there is no hardware issues with their box.
> 
> I have not swapped out the cable card but wil try next...
> 
> I can't believe Tivo would reject out of hand, over the phone that this COULD be a hardware issue because I am covered by the 90 day warranty. A faulty tuner perhaps? Hard Drive?


Since you asked what we would do...

You won't get anywhere with Tivo customer service (unless you resort to email carpet bombs, working the channels through VZ business customer service--which is that 1-800 number someone gave out--you can search the net for all the people's names to get to to the big wigs...but that just isn't a definite solution).

Options for you:
1- expire Tivo, keep box, wait for the patch
2- keep everything, add VZ box

I would do #2 and just hang on to the Tivo box you have, and get your Tivo service back, and also get the VZ box back.

Enjoy TV again (as much as possible) with the VZ box for a while while you work on the Tivo problem on the side. It will eventually work. It took me a very long time to figure it out (2 years). My final configuration is a diplexer, with attenuators, and with a splitter that goes nowhere. I am considering a second Tivo for the other room, but am reluctant because of this hassle of finding the sweet spot.

Now that I've come to know about this future "patch", I'll look and listen for it and when it comes out I can jump on the new Tivo.

I suggest this is what you do.


----------



## pilotbob

blacksnakeball said:


> they say it is past 30 days even though i have been working all that time to work on a fix. They say it is a FIOS signal problem and that there is no hardware issues with their box.


Hook it up to an OTA antenna and see if you have the same issue. If so, they can't blame FiOS for that.

BOb


----------



## pujoe1

richsadams said:


> He read the work order and immediately found that he did not have the digital adapter I had asked for (EyeTV for my Mac).


I, too, have EyeTV on the Mac and am planning a shift from DirecTV to FIOS, actually because of the Internet, not TV. I have AT&T DSL right now. I've been pouring over the posts for info, but yours is the first I've seen on the digital adapters. Can you tell me more?

FYI, I had DirecTV TiVos for many years. Most have been replaced with DirecTV HD DVRs. I still have an HR10 HD DVR TiVO. I list these because to say I'm used to having multiple HD DVRs (currently 3). I plan to buy two TIVO HD units and subscribe to Fios.


----------



## richsadams

pujoe1 said:


> I, too, have EyeTV on the Mac and am planning a shift from DirecTV to FIOS, actually because of the Internet, not TV. I have AT&T DSL right now. I've been pouring over the posts for info, but yours is the first I've seen on the digital adapters. Can you tell me more?
> 
> FYI, I had DirecTV TiVos for many years. Most have been replaced with DirecTV HD DVRs. I still have an HR10 HD DVR TiVO. I list these because to say I'm used to having multiple HD DVRs (currently 3). I plan to buy two TIVO HD units and subscribe to Fios.


Welcome to the forum! I'm not sure what you're using from DTV to feed your EyeTV but when I had Comcast I had one of their simple set top boxes (STB) and a remote. I had coax coming from that into my Hauppauge WinTV HVR 950 (same as EyeTV Hybrid) and then out via USB to my iMac.

When I switched over to FIOS they offered a digital adapter for $3.99/mo. which gives all the SD channels (and SD premiums like HBO I subscribe to) but no guide, on demand or pay per view. The box itself looks identical to the Comcast STB (owner's manual here). I considered using one of their regular DVR sized STB's ($5.99/mo.), but I just don't have the room in my office. The small footprint of the adapter works for me.

Enjoy your new TiVo's!


----------



## lew

AFAIK the TivoHD uses the same chipset used by Motorola for the FiOS DVRs. I hope the upcoming patch solves the problem but it sounds like it may be an issue with tivo's software.

See if FiOS will let you try a DVR, without a comittment. Assuming it works I'd go after tivo for a refund. Tivo can't have it both ways, they say there is an issue with FiOS then they should have told you to return the box immediately and not waste time trying stuff. Alternately if it works with FiOS they have to work with you, and replace your tivo, until it works.



blacksnakeball said:


> they say it is past 30 days even though i have been working all that time to work on a fix. They say it is a FIOS signal problem and that there is no hardware issues with their box.
> 
> I have not swapped out the cable card but wil try next...
> 
> I can't believe Tivo would reject out of hand, over the phone that this COULD be a hardware issue because I am covered by the 90 day warranty. A faulty tuner perhaps? Hard Drive?


----------



## pujoe1

richsadams said:


> Welcome to the forum! I'm not sure what you're using from DTV to feed your EyeTV but when I had Comcast I had one of their simple set top boxes (STB) and a remote. I had coax coming from that into my Hauppauge WinTV HVR 950 EyeTV Hybrid) and then out via USB to my iMac.


I have a MacBook Pro. My computer room has no TV at the moment, other than my EyeTV and an OTA from WalMart. I have cat 5 in the room, but no coax from my home run in the master bedroom closet downstairs. My network is primarily WiFi 802.11n, although I do have a powerline adapter to run ethernet to my AppleTV in the media room. I had been running it off Wifi, but decided to go with a higher bandwidth solution.



richsadams said:


> When I switched over to FIOS they offered a digital adapter for $3.99/mo. which gives all the SD channels (and SD premiums like HBO I subscribe to) but no guide, on demand or pay per view. The box itself looks identical to the Comcast STB owner's manual. I considered using one of their regular DVR sized STB's ($5.99/mo.), but I just don't have the room in my office. The small footprint of the adapter works for me.


Thanks. I've truly missed the Tivos the last couple of years as the originals I had with DirecTV got replaced with their own brand HD units. I'm still gathering info on all the options and issues with a switch to Verizon. Haven't made the plunge yet, but I can't resist the high bandwidth Internet as compared to my AT&T DSL.


----------



## pujoe1

wkearney99 said:


> I also had DirecTV and left it because they abandoned Tivo-based DVRs. Now that I've had the combined FIOS TV/Internet/Phone package I have no desire to go back to paying DirecTV more... while getting less. I also succeeded in getting over a dozen friends and neighbors to drop DirecTV as well.


Details on the switch from DirecTV to Verizon FIOS and the switch from DSL to FIOS internet is exactly what I'm looking for. I'm trying to prepare. I've been searching the forum posts. Is there a thread somewhere dedicated to this subject? A search hasn't found anything for me.


----------



## richsadams

pujoe1 said:


> Details on the switch from DirecTV to Verizon FIOS and the switch from DSL to FIOS internet is exactly what I'm looking for. I'm trying to prepare. I've been searching the forum posts. Is there a thread somewhere dedicated to this subject? A search hasn't found anything for me.


Mine was from Comcast to VZ FIOS. I have a couple of posts about my experience if you want some additional details:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7304527#post7304527

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7306598#post7306598

We had the TV/Phone/Broadband package with Comcast and the same now with VZ. The TV PQ has improved quite a bit with FIOS. SD looks much better and some HD is remarkably improved because Comcast was compressing HD signals more and more. I hear DTV was compressing HD even more and folks that have switched are seeing a big improvement. Broadband was mixed because Comcast was improving. During "good" times I was able to get 34/9 (late at night when no one else in the neighborhood was online). Most of the time it ran about 18/6 or so. With FIOS it's a steady 20/4 (s/b 20/5 but up never gets beyond 4 and I haven't fussed about it). It's good to have the steady speed I think and I haven't noticed any slowdowns or outages at all. Phone service is no different. All of that for about $50 less a month. I'm glad we switched.


----------



## pujoe1

richsadams said:


> Mine was from Comcast to VZ FIOS. I have a couple of posts about my experience if you want some additional details:


Thanks. I'll read them.



richsadams said:


> Broadband was mixed because Comcast was improving. During "good" times I was able to get 34/9 (late at night when no one else in the neighborhood was online). Most of the time it ran about 18/6 or so. With FIOS it's a steady 20/4 (s/b 20/5 but up never gets beyond 4 and I haven't fussed about it). It's good to have the steady speed I think and I haven't noticed any slowdowns or outages at all.


Broadband improvement will be easy. My AT&T DSL advertises 6/.7, I think, but actual performance rarely tops about 4 down, most disappointing. To be honest, I'm happy with DirecTV, but the broadband improvement with FIOS is a huge lure. Of course, the only reason I'm not just switching broadband is Tivo. I really miss my Tivo. The DirecTV HD DVR software pales in comparison, and we've had lots of trouble with uncommanded system restarts and lost signals. For important programs, I now set both my HD DVRs to record the same program, hoping one with get it. I think you can see the obvious motivations I have to switch.


----------



## hansenc

Well I have my FiOS cablecard install tomorrow. Wish me luck guys!

Anything I should know before hand?


----------



## bkdtv

My report on the new update:



bkdtv said:


> I have FiOS and received the 11.0d update yesterday.
> 
> I was previously able to eliminate 99+% of all pixelization with 16+dB attenuation. Without this attenuation, most channels exhibited massive pixelization and some channels would not reliably tune.
> 
> I did not notice any problems post-install. To test potential improvement with this release, I removed my attenuation this afternoon. To my surprise, I do not see any pixelization on any channel. I checked all my favorite channels for RS Uncorrected errors, and saw none except for occasional errors in the first second or so after tuning a channel. After the first second, there were no further RS Uncorrected errors. Channels that previously required some attenuation to tune...can now be tuned without attenuation and without pixelization.
> 
> *Verdict:* At least for me, the 11.0d update eliminates the need for attenuation. Pixelization is nowhere to be seen. :up::up::up:


----------



## GmanTiVo

I have had .d now for approx 1 week, removed the -20db attenuator, signal strength back to 100, 37db.

I have left the tuners on the 2 most problematic channes for me (DiscHD and FoodHD) over the weekend. Happy to report Uncorrected errors stayed at 0 for both tuners and not a single pixellation. 

WHOOT WHOOT 

YAY



Thank you Tivo

Gman

ps, I know many are still in the que for the update..... perform a "Kickstart 51" on a daily basis, it may help


----------



## rainwater

GmanTiVo said:


> ps, I know many are still in the que for the update..... perform a "Kickstart 51" on a daily basis, it may help


That isn't going to give you the software any quicker.


----------



## rcalkins27

Hey, I am new to the community, but I have a question I am hoping someone can answer simply.

My parents had a TiVo and Cablevision, now they have Verizon Fios and the Verizon DVRs. My mother wants her TiVo back.

If I get her a S3 TiVo and arrange for a Cablecard(s), will she be able to use the TiVo with relatively little issue? I understand from what I've read here that she won't be able to use the On Demand features or PPV features if she's using a TiVo box instead of the Verizon box.

Also, if the TiVo S3 will work, what will happen with the set-top boxes she has that are *not* DVRs, but are connected to the DVR box she is currently using.

My main concern here is that the set-up be easy and that she won't have any major issues. I don't live too close and can't go by to troubleshoot should there be lots of problems.

I appreciate any help which anyone can offer.


----------



## TheBar1

rcalkins27 said:


> If I get her a S3 TiVo and arrange for a Cablecard(s), will she be able to use the TiVo with relatively little issue? I understand from what I've read here that she won't be able to use the On Demand features or PPV features if she's using a TiVo box instead of the Verizon box.


Welcome, rcalkins27. Your assumptions are correct that the setup is relatively painless. I made a similar switch from FiOS and their DVR back to TiVo about 1.5 years ago, and haven't looked back since. One thing you'll want to consider as far as the PPV feature is connecting your TiVo to broadband internet so you can take advantage of Amazon or NetFlix VOD service. Both are pretty awesome, IMO. Aside from buying a TiVoHD, you'll need to book a service call with Verizon to have the Cablecard installed. Be warned that they will charge you about $100 for the truck roll. Make sure you ask for the "M" Cablecard, since you can save some $$ on having a single M card versus two "S" cards. You may also be able to save some money if you surrender your Verizon DVR to a local field office instead of asking the tech to take it with him. Make sure you ask Verizon about that.



rcalkins27 said:


> Also, if the TiVo S3 will work, what will happen with the set-top boxes she has that are *not* DVRs, but are connected to the DVR box she is currently using.


My FiOS DVR was never networked for MRV, so I'm not quite sure what might happen here.

Good luck!


----------



## rcalkins27

Thanks TheBar1 (Justin). I will review this information with my mother and I will also probably call Verizon myself to ask some more detailed questions.

She really dislikes the Verizon boxes, so if I can figure out a relatively painless way to switch her back to TiVo, that would be great.

Thanks for the help!

Ruth


----------



## bkdtv

rcalkins27 said:


> If I get her a S3 TiVo and arrange for a Cablecard(s), will she be able to use the TiVo with relatively little issue? I understand from what I've read here that she won't be able to use the On Demand features or PPV features if she's using a TiVo box instead of the Verizon box.


Yes, the TiVo works great with FiOS. Some people had signal issues with the previous software but now those are gone with the latest software.



rcalkins27 said:


> Also, if the TiVo S3 will work, what will happen with the set-top boxes she has that are *not* DVRs, but are connected to the DVR box she is currently using.


She can continue to use those Verizon boxes, but they won't be able to access recordings on the TiVo. Verizon's Motorola boxes can only access recordings on the Motorola DVR.

TiVos can access recordings on other TiVos.


----------



## richsadams

TheBar1 said:


> Be warned that they will charge you about $100 for the truck roll.


Didn't VZ drop the CC install truck roll charge recently?


----------



## innocentfreak

There are mixed reports. On the Verizon forums they say there is no option for them to bill for cable card installs so if you get charged it is incorrect and to call back. You can read a thread here about it. Some have been told there will be a charge and then they never get charged.


----------



## TheBar1

richsadams said:


> Didn't VZ drop the CC install truck roll charge recently?


If that's the case. maybe I should request a new M card to replace my two S cards. I'll have to look into that.

Thanks, Rich!


----------



## scoombs

innocentfreak said:


> There are mixed reports. On the Verizon forums they say there is no option for them to bill for cable card installs so if you get charged it is incorrect and to call back. You can read a thread here about it. Some have been told there will be a charge and then they never get charged.


I called today and the guy said there was no way he could get around the system to NOT link a service call with a technician truck roll to a CableCard order. He said the only way he knows to avoid it is if it is a trouble ticket through the fibre solution center.


----------



## randyb359

scoombs said:


> I called today and the guy said there was no way he could get around the system to NOT link a service call with a technician truck roll to a CableCard order. He said the only way he knows to avoid it is if it is a trouble ticket through the fibre solution center.


I had my s cards swapped for an m card. I was told there would be a charge of $79 but I checked my bill today and it is not one there.


----------



## innocentfreak

Question. I just added a third Tivo HD and they are coming out to install the cablecard Friday. I completed guided setup but I am not getting any channels whatsoever including the basic channels. Is this a problem with my setup? I want to make sure everything works before they come out, but I can't seem to find a station that comes in. 

For example when I did guided setup they asked me to confirm I could see channel 48 which is the TV Guide network. I couldn't so I selected it to show me another channel but all of the channels are black screens.


----------



## bkdtv

innocentfreak said:


> Question. I just added a third Tivo HD and they are coming out to install the cablecard Friday. I completed guided setup but I am not getting any channels whatsoever including the basic channels. Is this a problem with my setup? I want to make sure everything works before they come out, but I can't seem to find a station that comes in.


That's normal.

Verizon FiOS does not have any analog channels, and all but locals are encrypted, so you won't get a picture on any channel unless you run a channel scan. If you run a channel scan, you'll get a picture on the QAMs from 71-74 if you enable (check) them in Settings -> Channels -> Channel List.



innocentfreak said:


> For example when I did guided setup they asked me to confirm I could see channel 48 which is the TV Guide network. I couldn't so I selected it to show me another channel but all of the channels are black screens.


As above, there are no analog channels on FiOS, so you won't see a picture on the TVGuide network or any other channel in the guide (unless you run a channel scan and add QAMs 71-74) until you add a CableCard. TiVo has no way to match up the guide data to the appropriate QAM numbers until a CableCard is installed.


----------



## kimifelipe

rcalkins27 said:


> Hey, I am new to the community, but I have a question I am hoping someone can answer simply.
> 
> My parents had a TiVo and Cablevision, now they have Verizon Fios and the Verizon DVRs. My mother wants her TiVo back.
> 
> If I get her a S3 TiVo and arrange for a Cablecard(s), will she be able to use the TiVo with relatively little issue? I understand from what I've read here that she won't be able to use the On Demand features or PPV features if she's using a TiVo box instead of the Verizon box.
> 
> Also, if the TiVo S3 will work, what will happen with the set-top boxes she has that are *not* DVRs, but are connected to the DVR box she is currently using.
> 
> My main concern here is that the set-up be easy and that she won't have any major issues. I don't live too close and can't go by to troubleshoot should there be lots of problems.
> 
> I appreciate any help which anyone can offer.


I don't know if this has been answered yet, but I can tell you about MRV with the fios dvr and our other stb. I am trying it out for a couple months and I really like it. Using the mrv feature is as easy as sitting in front of the non-dvr box and hitting the dvr button - it acts exactly as if the stb were itself the dvr.

One downside is that if you are time-shifting a program which is currently recording, it can play back with some hesitation at times.

I think it is fantastic, and I really like the fios guide and dvr interface. I don't think that $20/mo is such a good deal, though, and I probably will not keep it after the free trial period. However, if the fios box records programs as reliably as tivo I will be tempted as I do like the interface. The major downside is limited and non-upgradeable storage space, and of course no tivo2go. These two things will likely keep me a tivo user.


----------



## kimifelipe

TheBar1 said:


> snip
> Be warned that they will charge you about $100 for the truck roll. Make sure you ask for the "M" Cablecard, since you can save some $$ on having a single M card versus two "S" cards.
> snip


I was not charged at all. The tech showed up with M Cards. The first one would not work, and after about 45 min of messing with it, he got a different card and it was running in about 15 min.


----------



## innocentfreak

bkdtv said:


> That's normal.
> 
> Verizon FiOS does not have any analog channels, and all but locals are encrypted, so you won't get a picture on any channel unless you run a channel scan. If you run a channel scan, you'll get a picture on the QAMs from 71-74 if you enable (check) them in Settings -> Channels -> Channel List.
> 
> As above, there are no analog channels on FiOS, so you won't see a picture on the TVGuide network or any other channel in the guide (unless you run a channel scan and add QAMs 71-74) until you add a CableCard. TiVo has no way to match up the guide data to the appropriate QAM numbers until a CableCard is installed.


Hmm ok. I swear I ran the channel scan also but still wasn't getting a picture since I know they don't get analog. I will just assume everything is working and if not Fios can test to tell me if the line I have isn't connected properly. This is what happens when you have too many lines.


----------



## zyzzx

I've seen a lot of wording here that says Verizon absolutely will not allow a self install of CableCards. The Verizon tech dropped off two MCards yesterday and told me I could install them myself when the TiVo HDs arrived. I went through initial setup of the TiVos last night and called the technical service number today to have the cards activated in the boxes. After 45 minutes on the phone, our TiVos are now accessing FiOS TV.

So YMMV on getting Verizon to hand you the CableCards for a self install. It wasn't easy getting them activated over the phone but it eventually worked. I'm glad I didn't need to setup another visit to my house.


----------



## wmcbrine

zyzzx said:


> I've seen a lot of wording here that says Verizon absolutely will not allow a self install of CableCards. The Verizon tech dropped off two MCards yesterday and told me I could install them myself when the TiVo HDs arrived.


Sure -- but that's not considered a self-install, because a tech left them with you. Now try getting Verizon to _mail_ the cards to you, or try picking some up at a local office -- the things you could do with set-top boxes.

Having the tech hand them to you, and then doing the actual "install" yourself, is pretty common. Doing it after they've left is a little unusual, though.


----------



## zyzzx

Gotcha. The guy needed to call his supervisor to allow him to leave the cards with us without installing them, so I felt fortunate on that part. I'm just glad to have it all working. I guess I got really lucky to have 11.0d released just before I got the TiVos to use with FiOS.


----------



## joe1515

bkdtv said:


> Yes, the TiVo works great with FiOS. Some people had signal issues with the previous software but now those are gone with the latest software.


I am conisdering switching from Cablevision to Fios. I have two series 3 tivo's.

Excuse my ignorance but wich software are you referring too? The signal strenght issue has been the main reason I have not switched yet.

Thanks,

Joe


----------



## bkdtv

joe1515 said:


> I am conisdering switching from Cablevision to Fios. I have two series 3 tivo's.
> 
> Excuse my ignorance but wich software are you referring too? The signal strenght issue has been the main reason I have not switched yet.


The signal compatibility issue was eliminated in the 11.0d software (released last month). There's no longer a reason to have any anxiety about the switch.


----------



## joe1515

bkdtv said:


> The signal compatibility issue was eliminated in the 11.0d software (released last month). There's no longer a reason to have any anxiety about the switch.


Who realeased the software Tivo or Verizon?


----------



## richsadams

joe1515 said:


> Who realeased the software Tivo or Verizon?


All updates for TiVo come only from TiVo (automatically).

BTW, VZ FIOS works quite well with our TiVo's. :up:


----------



## rainbow

kimifelipe said:


> I was not charged at all. The tech showed up with M Cards. The first one would not work, and after about 45 min of messing with it, he got a different card and it was running in about 15 min.


just doublechecking something here. I have the orig series 3/648 series. it has 2 slots for cable cards. I was under the impression that you need a cable card in each slot for both tuners to work - whether they are S or M cards.

I almost went w/Fios, but still have Cox right now due to 2 series 2 tivos that are under contract. When i checked w/Fios, I was told they only had M cards. But if you need 2 cards for 1 tivo, it appeared that they would be charging me for each of the 2 cards. another reason i didn't pull the trigger to go over to Fios at that time.


----------



## vurbano

rainbow said:


> just doublechecking something here. I have the orig series 3/648 series. it has 2 slots for cable cards. I was under the impression that you need a cable card in each slot for both tuners to work - whether they are S or M cards.
> 
> I almost went w/Fios, but still have Cox right now due to 2 series 2 tivos that are under contract. When i checked w/Fios, I was told they only had M cards. But if you need 2 cards for 1 tivo, it appeared that they would be charging me for each of the 2 cards. another reason i didn't pull the trigger to go over to Fios at that time.


Tivohd and xl only require 1 M card. I think the old series 3 requires 2 of the older cards.


----------



## joe1515

I just tried calling FIOS to get some information and of course the sales person told me Fios was not compatible with Tivo.  It is amazing how clueless these companies are.


----------



## pilotbob

joe1515 said:


> I just tried calling FIOS to get some information and of course the sales person told me Fios was not compatible with Tivo.  It is amazing how clueless these companies are.


Oh my god... someone should tell my TiVO it shouldn't be working with FiOS... even though it has been doing so for the last few years.

BOb


----------



## bkdtv

I've had a TivoHD on FiOS since late 2007.

Before the 11.0d software, I required attenuation to reduce my FiOS signal to a level the TiVo could handle. I'm not using any attenuation since that software was released.


----------



## joe1515

I know with cablevision every so often I have to reset the system or remove and reinsert the cards to get everything working properly.

Does fios experiance the same issues?


----------



## richsadams

rainbow said:


> just doublechecking something here. I have the orig series 3/648 series. it has 2 slots for cable cards. I was under the impression that you need a cable card in each slot for both tuners to work - whether they are S or M cards.
> 
> I almost went w/Fios, but still have Cox right now due to 2 series 2 tivos that are under contract. When i checked w/Fios, I was told they only had M cards. But if you need 2 cards for 1 tivo, it appeared that they would be charging me for each of the 2 cards. another reason i didn't pull the trigger to go over to Fios at that time.


Your Series3 requires two cable cards for both tuners to work. It does not matter if they are "S" (single stream) or "M" (multi-stream).

We are charged for each card we have from Verizon...in our case three cards; two for our Series3 and one for our TiVo HD. Reportedly VZ only has "M" cards now, but again, it doesn't matter when it comes to your Series3.


----------



## richsadams

joe1515 said:


> I know with cablevision every so often I have to reset the system or remove and reinsert the cards to get everything working properly.
> 
> Does fios experiance the same issues?


Never had to do that when we had Comcast, and have never had to do that since we switched to FIOS a while back.


----------



## Johncv

joe1515 said:


> I know with cablevision every so often I have to reset the system or remove and reinsert the cards to get everything working properly.
> 
> Does fios experiance the same issues?


Also, is there any close caption issues using Verizon FIOS, I am having issues with close caption on the SyFly channel using Cox.


----------



## sinanju

Johncv said:


> Also, is there any close caption issues using Verizon FIOS, I am having issues with close caption on the SyFly channel using Cox.


I haven't had any FiOS-related issues with CC, but since you don't say what your issues are, I can't tell you if you'd have them on FiOS or not.


----------



## joe1515

My wife and I watch HGTV a lot and on cablevision the audio is always going in and out has any experianced these issues with Fios on this channel?

I about to pull the trigger and switch to Fios.

Joe


----------



## mae

joe1515 said:


> My wife and I watch HGTV a lot and on cablevision the audio is always going in and out has any experianced these issues with Fios on this channel?
> 
> I about to pull the trigger and switch to Fios.
> 
> Joe


My wife watches it constantly, on the TiVo in HD, and in SD on an STB, and hasn't complained (which I am sure she would) since we switched to FIOS last March.


----------



## bkdtv

joe1515 said:


> My wife and I watch HGTV a lot and on cablevision the audio is always going in and out has any experianced these issues with Fios on this channel?
> 
> I about to pull the trigger and switch to Fios.


Doesn't happen on FiOS.


----------



## richsadams

joe1515 said:


> My wife and I watch HGTV a lot and on cablevision the audio is always going in and out has any experianced these issues with Fios on this channel?
> 
> I about to pull the trigger and switch to Fios.
> 
> Joe


Never experienced that and we record quite a bit of HGTV. We were hoping that the split screens they use in "Sell This House" (I think that's the one) would not have any macroblocking/pixelization like we were seeing w/Comcast. Turns out it's the program itself and nothing to do with either provider.  But no problems w/audio on any channel for that matter.


----------



## Scyber

joe1515 said:


> I know with cablevision every so often I have to reset the system or remove and reinsert the cards to get everything working properly.
> 
> Does fios experiance the same issues?


When I was with cablevision this used to happen with my CableCard TV about once every 2 months. Popping the CableCard out and reinserting the card fixed the issue. I didn't have TiVo at the time, so I can't say it was true with TiVo. I have never had any problems with either my TV nor my TiVo's with FIOS.


----------



## ADG

I apologize in advance for this question, but this is a 58 page thread and while I'm sure it has been asked and answered a couple of times I'm trying to avoid going through every post. I have two S3's and have had Cablevision for many years. In general I am pleased with them, especially since I also use their phone and internet services. Is there a good reason to consider switching to FIOS?

Again, I apologize for asking a question I'm sure has already been addressed multiple times in this thread. Thanks much.


----------



## Rolento76

ADG said:


> I apologize in advance for this question, but this is a 58 page thread and while I'm sure it has been asked and answered a couple of times I'm trying to avoid going through every post. I have two S3's and have had Cablevision for many years. In general I am pleased with them, especially since I also use their phone and internet services. Is there a good reason to consider switching to FIOS?
> 
> Again, I apologize for asking a question I'm sure has already been addressed multiple times in this thread. Thanks much.


Overall I was happy with Cablevision except that they didn't carry Discovery Health or BBC America. Now that I have FiOS, those two channels are the most watched. It came down to channel selection for us. And we shaved off about $10-15 a month for the next two years.

EDIT: And to avoid the use of Cablevisions's Tuning Adapter.


----------



## joe1515

I just the ordered the triple package for 134.99 per month. My installation is set up for this Saturday. I will let you know how it goes. Thanks for everyones help.

Is there anything special I should know for the installation? I am switching my service from Cablevision.

Joe


----------



## richsadams

ADG said:


> I apologize in advance for this question, but this is a 58 page thread and while I'm sure it has been asked and answered a couple of times I'm trying to avoid going through every post. I have two S3's and have had Cablevision for many years. In general I am pleased with them, especially since I also use their phone and internet services. Is there a good reason to consider switching to FIOS?
> 
> Again, I apologize for asking a question I'm sure has already been addressed multiple times in this thread. Thanks much.


We know where you're coming from. After a lot of consideration and due diligence we switched from Comcast's "Triple Play" to Verizon FIOS (phone, broadband and TV) for a couple of reasons. (Although we never had any issues with Comcast's customer service.)


Picture quality - Due to finite capacity Cableco's are compressing their signals more and more in order to add HD channels. The result is less than stellar HD PQ. Even though some broadcasters and cable stations compress their signals (and there's nothing anyone can do about that) FIOS delivers full bandwidth broadcasts. SD PQ is markedly improved and HD PQ is as good or in some cases simply stunning as compared to Comcast.
Broadband reliability. Although Comcast was improving speed it was unreliable and dependant on how many others in my area were using it. FIOS broadband is rock solid 24/7.
Price. Comcast continued to raise their rates. We now have the same or more features (including a good deal more HD content) for about $50 less/mo. guaranteed for two years.

YMMV, but we're quite happy with our decision.


----------



## ADG

Rich (and Rolento76) - thanks very much. I appreciate the help. Quick follow up - you don't feel there was any downside? You didn't "lose anything" in the exchange?


----------



## richsadams

ADG said:


> Quick follow up - you don't feel there was any downside? You didn't "lose anything" in the exchange?


Nope...all positive so far. :up:


----------



## ADG

Thanks again. As it turns out I have nothing to consider - just checked and FIOS is not yet available in my area - thought for sure it was.


----------



## richsadams

ADG said:


> Thanks again. As it turns out I have nothing to consider - just checked and FIOS is not yet available in my area - thought for sure it was.


Too bad. It took them a while to get it in here, but once they started they flew through it so hopefully they'll be in your area pretty soon.


----------



## joe1515

Well my tech just left about an hour ago. I switched all three services from Cablevision. Everything went as smooth and easy as can be, my tech was great.

The picture quality is 10 x better it is not even funny. The M cable cards were no issue at all everything worked first try. My internet connection is also faster compared to optonline speed boost.

I would highly recommend switching to Fios. So far I could not be happier. Granted I have only had the service for 1 hour.

Joe


----------



## Rolento76

joe1515 said:


> Well my tech just left about an hour ago. I switched all three services from Cablevision. Everything went as smooth and easy as can be, my tech was great.
> 
> The picture quality is 10 x better it is not even funny. The M cable cards were no issue at all everything worked first try. My internet connection is also faster compared to optonline speed boost.
> 
> I would highly recommend switching to Fios. So far I could not be happier. Granted I have only had the service for 1 hour.
> 
> Joe


Congrats. I love my FiOS services too. The only problems for me was billing. Took me three months to straighten out. My only advice is to keep a copy of the offer/order you placed so you have proof of the prices you are supposed to pay. And stay calm. The reps were fine... I think it was the system they were working with that makes things so frustrating.


----------



## mphtrilogy

question, my contract is up and verizon is sending me an M card, at least I hope its an M card, to replace my two single stream cards so i can save the $4 a month

Do I have to do anything special on the Tivo side to get this M card working?
Just place it in slot 1 and repeat guided setup?

Thanks!


----------



## bkdtv

mphtrilogy said:


> question, my contract is up and verizon is sending me an M card, at least I hope its an M card, to replace my two single stream cards so i can save the $4 a month


Verizon won't ship CableCards under any circumstances, so expect to see an automated message on your answering machine (or voice mail) with the date and time of the installation appointment. With the automated appointment scheduling, you avoid the CableCard installation fee.

As far as replacing the cards, the installer should remove the two S-Cards and insert the M-CARD into slot #1 on the right. Guided setup isn't necessary.


----------



## mphtrilogy

bkdtv said:


> Verizon won't ship CableCards under any circumstances, so expect to see an automated message on your answering machine (or voice mail) with the date and time of the installation appointment. With the automated appointment scheduling, you avoid the CableCard installation fee.
> 
> As far as replacing the cards, the installer should remove the two S-Cards and insert the M-CARD into slot #1 on the right. Guided setup isn't necessary.


Ok thanks. We'll see if it ships, I'll let you know if that policy still holds.


----------



## richsadams

mphtrilogy said:


> We'll see if it ships, I'll let you know if that policy still holds.


Don't hold your breath...it won't happen. Call and make an appointment or you'll be waiting even longer.


----------



## mphtrilogy

richsadams said:


> Don't hold your breath...it won't happen. Call and make an appointment or you'll be waiting even longer.


You ain't kidding.

I called back today.. no box, no M-Card ever shipped.

I have a Tech appointment tomorrow.

I do hope they have multi-stream cards now, i want to change out the 2 Single Cards for one, and give back the DVR for plain old HD box. to save $14 a month.

They did say they would waive the install fee, but the guy said he only made a note of it and I have to call back to make sure it was done next week.

if I did not call today, this could have been in limbo for months.

Thanks for the eye opener.


----------



## richsadams

mphtrilogy said:


> You ain't kidding.
> 
> I called back today.. no box, no M-Card ever shipped.
> 
> I have a Tech appointment tomorrow.
> 
> I do hope they have multi-stream cards now, i want to change out the 2 Single Cards for one, and give back the DVR for plain old HD box. to save $14 a month.
> 
> They did say they would waive the install fee, but the guy said he only made a note of it and I have to call back to make sure it was done next week.
> 
> if I did not call today, this could have been in limbo for months.
> 
> Thanks for the eye opener.


It's amazing after a couple of years now that the VZ CSR's still don't understand that cable cards can't/won't be mailed out. Seems like one memo would cover it, but instead they continue to give out incorrect information and tick off their newest customers. 

In any case, be sure to follow up on the install fee waiver (get a copy in writing).

All that aside, I think you'll be very happy with what you'll soon be seeing. :up:


----------



## paladin732

Hey,

Couple of questions:

1. I went to a "verizon experience" store today to speak to a rep about FiOS and I was informed that, yes, I can get M-cards at 3.99, however, I would also need at least one cable box (at a minimum of 5.99/month) in order to use it. They said that the box is required to get the service. This sounds like total crap to me, because as far as I understand it the whole POINT of a cablecard is to NOT have to have a cablebox. Can anyone confirm that they have just the HD Tivo (or HD Tivo XL or Tivo Series 3) WITHOUT an additional box? 

2. How long after the wires are laid does it typically take for the service to turn on, and is there a way to get the status on how much longer?


----------



## zyzzx

The installation of the fiber and the installation of service are separate. You'll have service when the service installer comes to your house for your appointment. Sometimes the service installer does a temporary fiber run and sometimes the line installer has everything setup for the service installer long before the appointment.

As to your MCard question, yes, the person you talked to at the store is full of it. We have 2 MCards and 2 TiVo HD boxes (1 card for each TiVo HD) and no Verizon boxes.


----------



## bkdtv

paladin732 said:


> Can anyone confirm that they have just the HD Tivo (or HD Tivo XL or Tivo Series 3) WITHOUT an additional box?


Yes, you can. You just got an uninformed rep.



paladin732 said:


> How long after the wires are laid does it typically take for the service to turn on, and is there a way to get the status on how much longer?


This will can vary from weeks to months (or longer). There are a lot of variables involved.

There's not an easy way to get status.


----------



## ah30k

If they already offer TV service in your area and just dug up 'your' neighborhood they you should not have to wait long. If they dug you up but do not yet have the franchise agreements in place yet then it could take a wide variable amount of time.


----------



## richsadams

paladin732 said:


> 2. How long after the wires are laid does it typically take for the service to turn on, and is there a way to get the status on how much longer?


FIOS was available about one month after they laid it in our area. I kept checking the web site (which is cumbersome but seems to work). About three months later a VZ sales person came to our door offering the service and was surprised to find out that we already had it.

Just keep checking and eventually the response will be "yes". BTW, it's worth the wait. :up:


----------



## naclone

I just replaced our last S2 with an HD and called Verizon to order a cable card to replace the 1 FiOS cable box we had. Rep said we had to keep the cable box at $5.99/month. When I asked why, she said "It's just our policy". When I pushed her on it we got disconnected, fortunately.

I called back, got another rep who said they would mail me the cablecard right away plus a box to ship back my cable box -- woopie!

A few days later I got a call from the local dispatch saying they were sending someone out with the card to get the box the next day. kinda short notice, but it all worked out. Guy showed up yesterday, got the card setup and took away the box. 

I'll keep an eye out to see if I get billed for either the install or the cable box I no longer have.


----------



## aaronwt

I turned in my HD STB over six months ago and I still get letters saying that I need to turn the box into them(It also says that my FIOS service is disconnected which is also untrue). But Verizon has listed on the account that I don't have the box. They seem to have some other company collect these boxes and they always have the wrong info.


----------



## richsadams

naclone said:


> I just replaced our last S2 with an HD and called Verizon to order a cable card to replace the 1 FiOS cable box we had. Rep said we had to keep the cable box at $5.99/month. When I asked why, she said "It's just our policy". When I pushed her on it we got disconnected, fortunately.
> 
> I called back, got another rep who said they would mail me the cablecard right away plus a box to ship back my cable box -- woopie!
> 
> A few days later I got a call from the local dispatch saying they were sending someone out with the card to get the box the next day. kinda short notice, but it all worked out. Guy showed up yesterday, got the card setup and took away the box.
> 
> I'll keep an eye out to see if I get billed for either the install or the cable box I no longer have.


A comedy of errors highlighting the poor training the VZ CSR's are still getting after, what, four plus years now? It's pretty simple but they continue to get it wrong.

- TiVo + Cable Card(s) = No STB (Set Top Box)
- Cable Cards are installed by VZ FIOS Rep (truck roll) and will NOT be mailed/shipped (VZ policy).

Will someone at VZ _please_ send out a memo? 

Do keep an eye on your bill. Ours came out just fine but along w/aaronwt's there are a number of horror stories here and elsewhere about (ongoing) billing issues.

Enjoy your new HD experience (and be patient when you tell your friends about what they're missing...they must see to believe!  )


----------



## rocko

richsadams said:


> ...
> Enjoy your new HD experience (and be patient when you tell your friends about what they're missing...they must see to believe!  )


This coming from a guy who took 2 years to pull the trigger ...


----------



## richsadams

rocko said:


> This coming from a guy who took 2 years to pull the trigger ...


Sooooo busted! Well, to be fair it only took me a few months after it was available in our little neck of the woods.


----------



## Scyber

richsadams said:


> A comedy of errors highlighting the poor training the VZ CSR's are still getting after, what, four plus years now? It's pretty simple but they continue to get it wrong.
> 
> - TiVo + Cable Card(s) = No STB (Set Top Box)
> - Cable Cards are installed by VZ FIOS Rep (truck roll) and will NOT be mailed/shipped (VZ policy).
> 
> Will someone at VZ _please_ send out a memo?


Actually I'd prefer they don't send the memo on that 2nd point. I believe most people that have had CSRs tell them they can ship Cable Cards were not billed for the truck roll. Those that have had CSRs tell them they needed a truck roll have been billed the full truck roll fee.


----------



## dresden69

I shouldn't say this... But I work in an FSC for Verizon... and we recently rolled out a document that informed the reps on which boxes worked with FIOS and which ones didn't... after seeing the same question in chat every week or so.. thought it was time to do some self education.

Glad to help out the community... 

P.S - I have 2 Tivo HDs, and will soon add a third to my FIOS service...


----------



## gew95001

I've been trying to research a little bit. Let me tell you my sad tale. I recently had Fios installed and built my own DVR using SageTV (and MythTV) - but was ultimately unsuccessful. There were too many problems with my HD-PVR crashing in SageTV. So, having been a Tivo customer for the last 5 years or so I decided to swallow my pride (and heed my complaining (rightfully) pregnant wife) and find out if the HD Tivos would work well.

One of my wife's biggest complaints (besides the fact that it kept crashing) was the picture quality. Even though the HD-PVR was recording in HD you could definitely see a difference in the picture. I've read a bunch (at least 20 pages) of this thread and it looks like the pixellation issue using Fios cablecards has been largely resolved.

I live in Tewksbury - anybody near me have a Series 3 set up with the cablecards? How's it working? How is the picture quality?


----------



## richsadams

dresden69 said:


> I shouldn't say this... But I work in an FSC for Verizon...


Oh you've stepped in it with both feet now brother. 

Prepare to be queried about all things FIOS!


----------



## bkdtv

gew95001 said:


> I've read a bunch (at least 20 pages) of this thread and it looks like the pixellation issue using Fios cablecards has been largely resolved.
> 
> I live in Tewksbury - anybody near me have a Series 3 set up with the cablecards? How's it working? How is the picture quality?


The FiOS picture with the TivoHD/Series3 is excellent. The pixelization issues were addressed (eliminated) with the release of the 11.0d software in July.

High-definition PQ in fixed output mode is indistinguishable from Verizon's Motorola QIP7xxx boxes. On 40+" displays, the PQ is an obvious improvement over the Hauppauge HD PVR, even at its highest 13.5Mbps CBR setting.


----------



## herbman

gew95001 said:


> I've been trying to research a little bit. Let me tell you my sad tale. I recently had Fios installed and built my own DVR using SageTV (and MythTV) - but was ultimately unsuccessful. There were too many problems with my HD-PVR crashing in SageTV. So, having been a Tivo customer for the last 5 years or so I decided to swallow my pride (and heed my complaining (rightfully) pregnant wife) and find out if the HD Tivos would work well.
> 
> One of my wife's biggest complaints (besides the fact that it kept crashing) was the picture quality. Even though the HD-PVR was recording in HD you could definitely see a difference in the picture. I've read a bunch (at least 20 pages) of this thread and it looks like the pixellation issue using Fios cablecards has been largely resolved.
> 
> I live in Tewksbury - anybody near me have a Series 3 set up with the cablecards? How's it working? How is the picture quality?


In Arlington (assuming you mean MA) with a TivoHD working fine with cablecard. I have two S-cards because they weren't rolling out M-cards yet but I'm trying to find a way to switch without paying a truck roll to save the other 3.99/mo, but you won't have that trouble.

The PQ is great, the pixellation is gone, and the reliability is great.


----------



## dresden69

richsadams said:


> Oh you've stepped in it with both feet now brother.
> 
> Prepare to be queried about all things FIOS!


Hahaha... I say bring it on..


----------



## dresden69

gew95001 said:


> I've been trying to research a little bit. Let me tell you my sad tale. I recently had Fios installed and built my own DVR using SageTV (and MythTV) - but was ultimately unsuccessful. There were too many problems with my HD-PVR crashing in SageTV. So, having been a Tivo customer for the last 5 years or so I decided to swallow my pride (and heed my complaining (rightfully) pregnant wife) and find out if the HD Tivos would work well.
> 
> One of my wife's biggest complaints (besides the fact that it kept crashing) was the picture quality. Even though the HD-PVR was recording in HD you could definitely see a difference in the picture. I've read a bunch (at least 20 pages) of this thread and it looks like the pixellation issue using Fios cablecards has been largely resolved.
> 
> I live in Tewksbury - anybody near me have a Series 3 set up with the cablecards? How's it working? How is the picture quality?


My experience with FIOS and pixilation is it is more centalized to your home more than anything else... if you have pixilation, that is usually a signal issue inside the house... not something that Verizon is doing to you. I would look at your splitters and see about replacing those, get a 5 - 1ghz splitter, or even a 5 - 2.3ghz splitter and see if that solves your pixilation issues.

Enjoy...


----------



## richsadams

dresden69 said:


> My experience with FIOS and pixilation is it is more centalized to your home more than anything else... if you have pixilation, that is usually a signal issue inside the house... not something that Verizon is doing to you. I would look at your splitters and see about replacing those, get a 5 - 1ghz splitter, or even a 5 - 2.3ghz splitter and see if that solves your pixilation issues.
> 
> Enjoy...


Since TiVo's latest upgrade our FIOS service has been almost flawless. Any issues I see now are almost certainly compression artifacts introduced at the broadcast source and very rare. :up:


----------



## Code7135

Odd problem going from Comcast to Fios (both triple-play). After installation with the HD-Extream package, I found that a block of HD channels were dead - 17 channels in the range 619 to 685, and channels 551 and 552. Everything else works great (including the rest of the HD-Extream channels). But the dead channels include FOOD, HGTV, BRAVO and SciFi, so this could be a deal killer for my wife.

Various Tech have been here during four visits. Signal strength is good, and the channels were good on their DVR box when they substituted it. Reflashed cards 4 times, ran direct cable, etc. Nothing has worked.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. I have one of the first Series 3 HD units (took advantage of the lifetime transfer offer when it came out). Vios installed two of the M cards.


----------



## richsadams

Code7135 said:


> Odd problem going from Comcast to Fios (both triple-play). After installation with the HD-Extream package, I found that a block of HD channels were dead - 17 channels in the range 619 to 685, and channels 551 and 552. Everything else works great (including the rest of the HD-Extream channels). But the dead channels include FOOD, HGTV, BRAVO and SciFi, so this could be a deal killer for my wife.
> 
> Various Tech have been here during four visits. Signal strength is good, and the channels were good on their DVR box when they substituted it. Reflashed cards 4 times, ran direct cable, etc. Nothing has worked.
> 
> Any suggestions would be appreciated. I have one of the first Series 3 HD units (took advantage of the lifetime transfer offer when it came out). Vios installed two of the M cards.


Welcome to the Forum. The problem is most likely not your TiVo (or the cable cards, etc.). When they first installed FIOS on our Series3 there were several blocks of HD channels that were "missing". I called VZ and it took them a little while (most of the day) but they finally got them activated. (I had to call several times.) It had everything to do with how our account was set up, what channels we did and didn't receive, etc. (We have HD Extreme so we get most everything.) Whatever the case, it was handled by FIOS tech support over the phone...nothing associated with their or my hardware at all.

It may not be exactly the same situation with you, but I'd certainly continue to pursue it with them...don't let them tell you it has something to do with TiVo because that makes no sense IMHO.


----------



## Code7135

Thanks Rich. (I was hopping you would reply.)

When a supervisor came over yesterday, he replaced my TiVo with their DVR and got all channels on his box. So he concluded that their programming is getting down my cable. But no luck with the TiVo. 

He said he will gather more info and return again today. Thus far they have not blamed the TiVo (except to mention that TiVo does not supply full specs as to what the system input levels should be).

These techs have been willing to spend a lot of time on this, and have a very positive attitude, so I have no complaints there. But I guess my system is becoming a training exercise for them, since VIOS just came to this area.
Thanks again for your help. -Bob


----------



## bkdtv

Code,

To help them get the problem resolved, you might say something like, "I read that others in the area using CableCards aren't able to receive the channel either."


----------



## richsadams

Code7135 said:


> Thanks Rich. (I was hopping you would reply.)
> 
> When a supervisor came over yesterday, he replaced my TiVo with their DVR and got all channels on his box. So he concluded that their programming is getting down my cable. But no luck with the TiVo.
> 
> He said he will gather more info and return again today. Thus far they have not blamed the TiVo (except to mention that TiVo does not supply full specs as to what the system input levels should be).
> 
> These techs have been willing to spend a lot of time on this, and have a very positive attitude, so I have no complaints there. But I guess my system is becoming a training exercise for them, since VIOS just came to this area.
> Thanks again for your help. -Bob


That's interesting. It could indeed then be cable cards. There are horror stories around here where as many as a dozen were tried before the techs came up with two that would actually work...but that was with other cableco's. AFAIK there haven't been any posts about VZ cable cards being problematic.

It still seems unusual that your TiVo would be having any issues with a particular bandwidth and more likely something they're doing at the head end. I'm unfamiliar with the VZ boxes. Did they use the same cable cards in both? Based on other posts the Motorola boxes they use have enough architectural differences that it's sort of apples and oranges when comparing them to TiVo, but I'm wondering if they tried the exact same cards in both their DVR as well as your TiVo.

bkdtv's suggestion is a good one and worth a try. One other idea is to have a three-way call with TiVo. There are a number of posts where TiVo, the cableco and the owners have been able to spend some time on the phone together to resolve any problems. Again, I've never heard of anyone having to do that with FIOS, so you may be a pioneer!

In any case, best of luck and let us know how they resolve things for you.


----------



## rocko

I concur. It's most likely a combination of CableCARD authorization and account (package) configuration. Calling the Fiber Solutions Center (888-553-1555) should be the thing to do - an actual truck roll should be unnecessary.

http://www22.verizon.com/ResidentialHelp/FiOSInternet/General+Support/Top+Questions/QuestionsOne/85220.htm


----------



## Code7135

Hi Rich

That was a stickler. The VZ box did not use cable cards, but was a direct cable input. So it is a different architecture with no ready way to verify the cards (unless the cards are hidden inside).

Thus far VIOS has only used two M cards. When comcast tried to set it up with two S cards a few years ago, they could only get one channel working. Hence we only tried the M cards this time. If all else fails, maybe I will ask them to try S cards this time?

Thanks for your suggestions and help. I will let you know how it ends.
-Bob


----------



## richsadams

Code7135 said:


> Hi Rich
> 
> That was a stickler. The VZ box did not use cable cards, but was a direct cable input. So it is a different architecture with no ready way to verify the cards (unless the cards are hidden inside).
> 
> Thus far VIOS has only used two M cards. When comcast tried to set it up with two S cards a few years ago, they could only get one channel working. Hence we only tried the M cards this time. If all else fails, maybe I will ask them to try S cards this time?
> 
> Thanks for your suggestions and help. I will let you know how it ends.
> -Bob


IIRC someone posted that the VZ DVR's have a cable card inside.

I don't think VZ carries anything but "M" cards anymore, but you might get lucky. (Still think it has more to do with what they're doing at a higher level, but you never know.)

Thanks for keeping us up to date.


----------



## mae

richsadams said:


> IIRC someone posted that the VZ DVR's have a cable card inside.
> 
> I don't think VZ carries anything but "M" cards anymore, but you might get lucky. (Still think it has more to do with what they're doing at a higher level, but you never know.)
> 
> Thanks for keeping us up to date.


Rich,

VZ has two generations of boxes (plus the DTA's) in use. The 6xxx are grandfathered, waiver period boxes w/o cablecards. The 7xxx use M cards folks have pulled (against advice) and had them work in TiVos since VZ doesn't pair cards to equipment.

OP,

There are plenty of folks in Maryland who have successfully received all channels (I'm on the Howard/AA county system, but know folks in Montgomery who have it working as well). Which system are you on?

Have you tried posting on the VZ Direct forum at DLSR(http://www.dslreports.com/forum/vzdirect)? They only work Monday-Friday, but generally have been able to resolve issues that phone calls haven't. We had a problem on two QAMs at our Central Office and couldn't get the folks at the FSC to understand. It was fixed by "VZGustavo" in a few days.

Mark


----------



## richsadams

mae said:


> Rich,VZ has two generations of boxes (plus the DTA's) in use. The 6xxx are grandfathered, waiver period boxes w/o cablecards. The 7xxx use M cards folks have pulled (against advice) and had them work in TiVos since VZ doesn't pair cards to equipment.


Ah, got it.


----------



## Code7135

Mark -
Thanks for the link. I will try them if the next tech visit doesn't resolve this.I am down in Charles County. I think it is a relatively new area for VIOS.


----------



## wmcbrine

It's "Fios", not "Vios".


----------



## richsadams

wmcbrine said:


> It's "Fios", not "Vios".


I think the OP is trying to combine Verizon w/FIOS...VIOS. But you're right...for the folks here, FIOS s/b used so as not to confuse things.


----------



## wmcbrine

richsadams said:


> I think the OP is trying to combine Verizon w/FIOS...VIOS.


Oh, I assumed that too. I just find it really annoying, and an unjustifiable acronym.


----------



## Code7135

Sorry. I'm not that cleaver. (Also not a good speller or typist.)
Just a typo (and the "F" and "V" keys are close together when I am also holding down the caps key).

Thanks again for your help.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

Code7135 said:


> When a supervisor came over yesterday, he replaced my TiVo with their DVR and got all channels on his box. So he concluded that their programming is getting down my cable. But no luck with the TiVo.


One interesting test would be to take one of the newer Verizon DVRs (that are required to use CableCARDs) and first make sure it works as delivered. Then swap TiVo cards <--> Verizon DVR cards and see whether the problem follows the cards or not.


----------



## bkdtv

Code7135 said:


> Thus far VIOS has only used two M cards. When comcast tried to set it up with two S cards a few years ago, they could only get one channel working. Hence we only tried the M cards this time. If all else fails, maybe I will ask them to try S cards this time?


Note if you have the older Series3 model, two CableCards (regardless of type) are always needed to support both tuners. Only the newer TivoHD support both tuners with a single M-CARD (must be in far right slot).



Phantom Gremlin said:


> One interesting test would be to take one of the newer Verizon DVRs (that are required to use CableCARDs) and first make sure it works as delivered. Then swap TiVo cards <--> Verizon DVR cards and see whether the problem follows the cards or not.


I've been told the M-CARDs _in the Motorola DVRs_ are paired, so that may not work. Have you confirmed otherwise?


----------



## Jonathan_S

Code7135 said:


> Thanks Rich. (I was hopping you would reply.)
> 
> When a supervisor came over yesterday, he replaced my TiVo with their DVR and got all channels on his box. So he concluded that their programming is getting down my cable. But no luck with the TiVo.


Probably not the issue, but it did bite me when I first got my TiVoHD. Did you sanity-check that their DVR and your TiVo agree on the channel number for the missing channels? 
(Ie, if you can't receive National Geographic on the TiVo but can on the FIOS box, are they tuned to the same channel number)

I happened to get my TiVoHD installed the same day FIOS did an unannounced line-up change which meant that the channels weren't where TiVo though they were. I thought it was a cable-card problem when it was really a line-up problem. (And when I figured it out I had to cancel the follow-up truck role they'd scheduled to bring out some replacement cable cards)


----------



## richsadams

Jonathan_S said:


> Probably not the issue, but it did bite me when I first got my TiVoHD. Did you sanity that their DVR and your TiVo agree on the channel number for the missing channels?
> (Ie, if you can't receive National Geographic on the TiVo but can on the FIOS box, are they tuned to the same channel number)
> 
> I happened to get my TiVoHD installed the same day FIOS did an unannounced line-up change which meant that the channels weren't where TiVo though they were. I thought it was a cable-card problem when it was really a line-up problem. (And when I figured it out I had to cancel the follow-up truck role they'd scheduled to bring out some replacement cable cards)


Hadn't considered that one. :up:


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

bkdtv said:


> I've been told the M-CARDs _in the Motorola DVRs_ are paired, so that may not work. Have you confirmed otherwise?


I don't have a Verizon DVR so I can't check. But if Motorola/Verizon/Comcast et al were smart they would put some sort of seal over the M-CARDs so they would know if you disturbed them.

Of course all the "company" DVRs violate the spirit if not the letter of the FCC regulations by coming from the factory with CableCARDs pre-installed. In addition, I'd bet that it's company policy to *never* de-mate the cards from the DVR. Is it still "separable" security if it comes mated and it's never separated?


----------



## andrews777

I have Verizon Fios HD and my 3 TivoHDs work fine. I am using single cable cards. One is acting up now, but I don't think that is Verizon's issue.

Brad


----------



## mae

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I don't have a Verizon DVR so I can't check. But if Motorola/Verizon/Comcast et al were smart they would put some sort of seal over the M-CARDs so they would know if you disturbed them.


I have a 7100 HD box (but not a FIOS DVR) although the case is the same. The card is under a plate with a foil seal. That hasn't stopped some people at BBR, who claim to have pulled it and found it worked.

You're right though, the card in these boxes isn't activated per se. They must be cross referenced in their inventory system. The activation process goes by the box number.


----------



## bpgveg14

bkdtv said:


> Verizon FiOS fully supports the Series3. (You don't get VOD/PPV, obviously.)
> 
> Not getting VOD or PPV = Verizon FiOS *DOESN'T* fully support the Series3. :down:


----------



## SeanC

bpgveg14 said:


> bkdtv said:
> 
> 
> 
> Verizon FiOS fully supports the Series3. (You don't get VOD/PPV, obviously.)
> 
> 
> 
> Not getting VOD or PPV = Verizon FiOS *DOESN'T* fully support the Series3. :down:
Click to expand...

Hunh? Not sure what you are saying here. The S3 can't do VOD or PPV, so what is there to support?


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## richsadams

SeanC said:


> Hunh? Not sure what you are saying here. The S3 can't do VOD or PPV, so what is there to support?


Exactly. No TiVo supports VOD or PPV. (Although you can call VZ or any cableco and _order_ PPV events.)


----------



## Code7135

The issue I was having with FIOS not being able to find a block of channels was *finally resolved*! The Verizon folks spent a lot of time and effort on this, but it finally turned out to be something easily corrected (as you folks expected).

As understood by me from their explanation, the card reset involves them running a procedure in their office that has two parts: (Step 1) Initialization of the card, followed after a brief pause by (Step 2) downloading the channel information. The Series 3 TiVo that I have needs some additional time between these two steps. By breaking the procedure and allowing additional time between the steps, the reset worked correctly and my system now receives everything it should.

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions in this forum. It was comforting to know that I had this forum to fall back on.

- Bob


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## richsadams

Code7135 said:


> The issue I was having with FIOS not being able to find a block of channels was *finally resolved*! The Verizon folks spent a lot of time and effort on this, but it finally turned out to be something easily corrected (as you folks expected).


Phew! Congrats Bob. Thanks for reporting the detailed info...it may help someone else in the future. Enjoy! :up:


----------



## gkacher

We went down the road for weeks with Tivo and Verizon trying the attenuators and worrying about signal strength. The reality was that pulling the DVR Expander out of our TivoHD fixed all of our pixelation and rebooting problems. Why hasn't Tivo figured this out with their help desk scripts?


----------



## richsadams

gkacher said:


> We went down the road for weeks with Tivo and Verizon trying the attenuators and worrying about signal strength. The reality was that pulling the DVR Expander out of our TivoHD fixed all of our pixelation and rebooting problems. Why hasn't Tivo figured this out with their help desk scripts?


Per numerous posts on this forum, the problems with FIOS were taken care of back in July with the release of v11.0d. Everyone (on this thread, others as well as the main thread on the subject) was told to remove any attenuation at that time. IIRC that's what TiVo was telling folks as well.

There are also numerous posts on the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ discussing problems with the WD My DVR Expanders and how to diagnose the issues and/or remove them.

If anyone at TiVo was instructing you to do anything different recently, you're right, whoever you talked to wasn't up to speed. You can usually depend on folks here to help out whenever there's a problem...of course you sometimes get what you pay for. 

In any case, it's good to hear that you've figured things out. It's quite possible that the hard drive in the WD My DVR Expander enclosure is still good. More here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7553444#post7553444



> Quite a few recent reports have indicated that the WD My DVR Expanders are failing because something is going south in the enclosure, not with the actual hard drive itself. Several folks have had success by removing the hard drive from the enclosure and installing it in a new one (such as the recommended Antec MX-1). Once re-connected life is good again. Something to keep in mind.


----------



## gkacher

I now see that 11.0d solved the problems. The Community got me to pull the Expander out finally. It's just that when I searched Fios on the board most of the results were attenuator focused. The problems started back in the Spring.

I saw that regarding the drive. I've now disassociated the Expander from the Tivo HD and lost all of the shows. If I pull the drive from the Expander and put it in a 3rd party enclosure will Tivo accept it? Or, do I need to first plug the Expander back in and then turn off the Tivo and stuff the drive into a 3rd party enclosure?

This Tivo is thousands of miles away at a family member's home so I might just go the route of buying a new 1 TB expander from them and an SIIG cable. Is the 1 TB Expander proving to be more reliable than the 500 GB? Has WD made any more to changing out the faulty components of the older 500 GB units? I bought the first 500 GB Expander when they first came to market.


----------



## richsadams

gkacher said:


> I now see that 11.0d solved the problems. The Community got me to pull the Expander out finally. It's just that when I searched Fios on the board most of the results were attenuator focused. The problems started back in the Spring.
> 
> I saw that regarding the drive. I've now disassociated the Expander from the Tivo HD and lost all of the shows. If I pull the drive from the Expander and put it in a 3rd party enclosure will Tivo accept it? Or, do I need to first plug the Expander back in and then turn off the Tivo and stuff the drive into a 3rd party enclosure?
> 
> This Tivo is thousands of miles away at a family member's home so I might just go the route of buying a new 1 TB expander from them and an SIIG cable. Is the 1 TB Expander proving to be more reliable than the 500 GB? Has WD made any more to changing out the faulty components of the older 500 GB units? I bought the first 500 GB Expander when they first came to market.


It looks like the 500GB My DVR Expanders are often failing at about 12 to 18 months (just outside of the 1 year warranty). Several people have had success with continuing to use the actual drive by placing it in a new enclosure (recommended enclosures can be found in the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ).

TiVo recognizes eSATA drives by the exact model number so it really doesn't matter what enclosure it's in. Placing the actual drive in a new enclosure could result in your drive being serviceable once again. Connecting the bare drive to a PC and running a diagnostic program like the free WD Lifeguard could tell you if the drive is okay or not.

Based on various posts about communications with WD, they don't seem very forthcoming about their products or if they've made any changes to them.

The WD 1TB My DVR Expander hasn't been out but a few months now so it's hard to say how the long-term reliability will be. AFAIK no one has reported any issues with them so far.


----------



## rija17876

Hi Everyone,

I am new to this site so please forgive the redundency on the questions. I currentl have V-Fios and their DVR. I am in the market to buy a Tivo. I've read that I need 2 m-cards if I have an old series 3 tivo, and only 1 m-card if new series 3. I am current looking at 2 TIVO boxes to buy. One is a ser.3 model number TCD648250B Lifetime 179 HD Hrs 1TB WD Ext, and the other is the TCD652160 with an internal expanded memory, and comparable offerings. I come to understand the TCD648250B is a better box, or is it(?), but what is also important to me is the number of m-cards required, since I will be spending good money on either. How many m-cards is required in the two models?

I would appreciate any advise.

Thank you all.

Norm


----------



## richsadams

rija17876 said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I am new to this site so please forgive the redundency on the questions. I currentl have V-Fios and their DVR. I am in the market to buy a Tivo. I've read that I need 2 m-cards if I have an old series 3 tivo, and only 1 m-card if new series 3. I am current looking at 2 TIVO boxes to buy. One is a ser.3 model number TCD648250B Lifetime 179 HD Hrs 1TB WD Ext, and the other is the TCD652160 with an internal expanded memory, and comparable offerings. I come to understand the TCD648250B is a better box, or is it(?), but what is also important to me is the number of m-cards required, since I will be spending good money on either. How many m-cards is required in the two models?
> 
> I would appreciate any advise.
> 
> Thank you all.
> 
> Norm


Welcome to the forum. Although all of the TiVo Hi-def boxes are part of the Series 3 family, here is how they are referred to on the forum:









TiVo Series3 (TCD648250B - the "original" HD TiVo)









TiVo HD (TCD652160)









TiVo HDXL (TCD658000)

The differences between the three models can be found on these two threads:

TiVo Series3 : http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=315791

TiVo HD/HDXL: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=419994

The original Series3 requires two cable cards (either "S", single-stream or "M" multi-stream) to operate both tuners. TiVo HD and HDXL's only require one "M" cable card. Cable cards are part of VZ FIOS service charges. I think our first one is free and the other two are $3.49 ea./month.

Each unit has pluses and minuses. We have both and can recommend either. If I were to buy another one I'd probably opt for another of the original Series3 models.

All of our TiVo's work very well w/FIOS. There are two things that are different from the VZ DVR. No VOD. Pay-per-view is not available via a TiVo menu but you can order it on line or call VZ and schedule a show and set TiVo to record it by setting up a manual recording. We don't miss VOD because we have access to streaming Amazon VOD, Netflix and now Blockbuster videos...plus all of the rest of the various broadband features if you have it hooked up to your network.

You can visit the TiVo Series3 HDTV DVR thread for more information on all things TiVo:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=51


----------



## rija17876

Thanks Rich for the picture definition and the other relevant threads on this site. Can I ask for a clarification on the comment: "I think our first one is free and the other two are $3.49 ea./month." Which one is free and which two are $3.49? Or are you saying the first card, regardless of "S" or "M" is free and the second one is $3.40. I'm inclined to buy the series 3, but would like to pay monthly 1 x $3.49 instead of 2 x $3.49. Also, it appears on this site the installation is a crap shoot regarding service charges. Some have been dinged hard while others thought they were going to pay but end up getting a free service call.

Thanks again.


----------



## bkdtv

rija17876 said:


> Thanks Rich for the picture definition and the other relevant threads on this site. Can I ask for a clarification on the comment: "I think our first one is free and the other two are $3.49 ea./month." Which one is free and which two are $3.49? Or are you saying the first card, regardless of "S" or "M" is free and the second one is $3.40. I'm inclined to buy the series 3, but would like to pay monthly 1 x $3.49 instead of 2 x $3.49.


Refer to the above pictures (hint: picture is above title).

Verizon FiOS charges $3.99 for each CableCard, regardless of type. One CableCard (M-CARD) supports both tuners in the TivoHD and TivoHD XL, whereas the discontinued Tivo Series3 model always requires two CableCards to support both tuners.

There is no longer any charge for the CableCard installation.


----------



## richsadams

rija17876 said:


> Can I ask for a clarification on the comment: "I think our first one is free and the other two are $3.49 ea./month." Which one is free and which two are $3.49? Or are you saying the first card, regardless of "S" or "M" is free and the second one is $3.40. I'm inclined to buy the series 3, but would like to pay monthly 1 x $3.49 instead of 2 x $3.49. Also, it appears on this site the installation is a crap shoot regarding service charges. Some have been dinged hard while others thought they were going to pay but end up getting a free service call.
> 
> Thanks again.


As bkdtv points out above, you'd need two cable cards for the original Series3 ("M" or "S") but only one "M" card for a TiVo HD. I checked my bill and also as mentioned, each card we have is $3.99/mo. (I think the "first free card" was a Comcast deal we used to have.)

Also as mentioned VZ no longer charges for initial installations.


----------



## dforemsky

Anybody try to get them to come back out and replace the single stream cards with a multi stream? Would that be a free trip, as well?

(I've been think about doing this to save the 8 bucks a month, but everything cablecard related is working now and I don't want to take the chance in messing it up!)


----------



## rocko

dforemsky said:


> Anybody try to get them to come back out and replace the single stream cards with a multi stream? Would that be a free trip, as well?
> 
> (I've been think about doing this to save the 8 bucks a month, but everything cablecard related is working now and I don't want to take the chance in messing it up!)


+1

Since I replaced my S3 with a THD, I can save 8 bucks/mo. as well. I have 2 S cards in my original THD I'd like to swap out ...


----------



## bkdtv

dforemsky said:


> Anybody try to get them to come back out and replace the single stream cards with a multi stream? Would that be a free trip, as well?
> 
> (I've been think about doing this to save the 8 bucks a month, but everything cablecard related is working now and I don't want to take the chance in messing it up!)


You probably won't have much success if you ask FiOS to replace existing CableCards. But you can ask for an installation of new CableCards (where you'll get M-CARDs), and then when they get there, ask them to take your old cards with them.

In my case, I ordered new CableCards (got M-CARDs), and then after they were installed, I called to return the S-CARDs. In most areas, they'll send you a prepaid envelope to return the cards.


----------



## andrews777

bkdtv said:


> You probably won't have much success if you ask FiOS to replace existing CableCards. But you can ask for an installation of new CableCards (where you'll get M-CARDs), and then when they get there, ask them to take your old cards with them.
> 
> In my case, I ordered new CableCards (got M-CARDs), and then after they were installed, I called to return the S-CARDs. In most areas, they'll send you a prepaid envelope to return the cards.


How do you know they are going to bring M-cards? I would do this in a flash, since it would safe me $12/month (3 TivoHDs), but I don't want to ask them to come out to only get the same cards I have.

Brad


----------



## bkdtv

andrews777 said:


> How do you know they are going to bring M-cards? I would do this in a flash, since it would safe me $12/month (3 TivoHDs), but I don't want to ask them to come out to only get the same cards I have.


S-CARDs were discontinued 18 months ago and Verizon hasn't carried them in any market since late spring / early summer.

Verizon installers don't have S-CARDs unless they were just removed from another customer's home in the past day or two. When the installer calls 30-60 minutes prior to their arrival, tell them you want M-CARDs so they can pick them up from the office if necessary.

My installer in N. VA said he hadn't seen a S-CARD in almost ten months. All they have at the VA/MD office is boxes and boxes of M-CARDs.


----------



## oViTynoT

So that means S3 users are Out of Luck to get new cards if one fails?


----------



## randyb359

dforemsky said:


> Anybody try to get them to come back out and replace the single stream cards with a multi stream? Would that be a free trip, as well?
> 
> (I've been think about doing this to save the 8 bucks a month, but everything cablecard related is working now and I don't want to take the chance in messing it up!)


I called an had Verizon come out to replace my s cards with an m card and they came at no charge


----------



## richsadams

oViTynoT said:


> So that means S3 users are Out of Luck to get new cards if one fails?


Not at all. Series3's can use either "S" or "M" cable cards...they just require two (one for each tuner) as opposed to TiVo HD's/HDXL's which have the ability to utilize one "M" card. I haven't heard of anyone doing so, but AFAIK you could use one "S" and one "M" card in a TiVo Series3.


----------



## rija17876

If S-cards are no longer circulating, but they still work, does anyone have a spare so all I need is one M-card for my S3?


----------



## bkdtv

rija17876 said:


> If S-cards are no longer circulating, but they still work, does anyone have a spare so all I need is one M-card for my S3?


You need a CableCard from Verizon. Verizon won't activate a CableCard unless they provide it.


----------



## reg036

Alright got a quick (and maybe repetitive) question, Fios only has M-cards now, the reason for my question is that I just got a S3 and I would like to swap out my two S-cards out of my HD box, put them in the S3 and just order a new M-card to go into the HD box. I called fiber solutions and they were taken back a bit about whether they had M-cards available and after 20 minutes came back with yes they do but the system only addresses 1 stream on them (I know sounds hokey to me too). TIA


----------



## lew

reg036 said:


> Alright got a quick (and maybe repetitive) question, Fios only has M-cards now, the reason for my question is that I just got a S3 and I would like to swap out my two S-cards out of my HD box, put them in the S3 and just order a new M-card to go into the HD box. I called fiber solutions and they were taken back a bit about whether they had M-cards available and after 20 minutes came back with yes they do but the system only addresses 1 stream on them (I know sounds hokey to me too). TIA


The original S3 until will only address one stream. The Tivo HD and HD XL will access 2 streams and only requires one M card.


----------



## rocko

reg036 said:


> Alright got a quick (and maybe repetitive) question, Fios only has M-cards now, the reason for my question is that I just got a S3 and I would like to swap out my two S-cards out of my HD box, put them in the S3 and just order a new M-card to go into the HD box. I called fiber solutions and they were taken back a bit about whether they had M-cards available and after 20 minutes came back with yes they do but the system only addresses 1 stream on them (I know sounds hokey to me too). TIA


Quick answer = your plan is fine. Transfer the 2 'S' cards to the S3 and order up a 'M' card for the THD. Accountwise, you won't even have to do anything special to move the 2 'S' cards from one box to another. I just replaced a broken S3 with a THD and simply popped the old cards into the new box - no calls to Verizon - period.

In your case you'll need to pair the new card but the old cards are a no-brainer.


----------



## Jonathan_S

rocko said:


> Quick answer = your plan is fine. Transfer the 2 'S' cards to the S3 and order up a 'M' card for the THD. Accountwise, you won't even have to do anything special to move the 2 'S' cards from one box to another.


Verizon fortunatly doesn't bother to pair the card with a specific box, so you're free to move them between boxes without calling them. Other providers aren't quite so permissive.


----------



## Floridaman

I have the Tivo HD XL model dvr. I am using it with Fios and it has the current software 11.0D My signal strength is 100% on all channels and I subscribe to every channel. The SNR reading is 37 on all of the channels. I haven't had any issues with pixellation but just in the past few days have noticed audio drop outs. The sound will cut out for a second then it is fine for a few minutes and then does the same thing again. Tivo is telling me that the signal is way too strong and needs to be adjusted with an attenuator. They also believe this will take care of the audio issue. I thought the 11.0D software addressed these issues. Is the audio cutting out a problem related to SNR or is there a problem with the Tivo unit itself? Should I get an attenuator and if so what db rating should I get? 

Thanks


----------



## jap3

richsadams said:


> As bkdtv points out above, you'd need two cable cards for the original Series3 ("M" or "S") but only one "M" card for a TiVo HD. I checked my bill and also as mentioned, each card we have is $3.99/mo. (I think the "first free card" was a Comcast deal we used to have.)
> 
> Also as mentioned VZ no longer charges for initial installations.


I have an original Series 3. I understand that whether I have an S card or M card I still need two. But will the M cards give me the ability for On Demand? Are there any other advantages of an M card over S card on an original Series 3?

Thanks for your insight.


----------



## SeanC

jap3 said:


> I have an original Series 3. I understand that whether I have an S card or M card I still need two. But will the M cards give me the ability for On Demand? Are there any other advantages of an M card over S card on an original Series 3?
> 
> Thanks for your insight.


No, the M card will not give you access to On Demand. The S3 cannot access Verizon's On Demand in any way. On an original S3 there is no advantage of an M over an S card.


----------



## richsadams

jap3 said:


> I have an original Series 3. I understand that whether I have an S card or M card I still need two. But will the M cards give me the ability for On Demand? Are there any other advantages of an M card over S card on an original Series 3?
> 
> Thanks for your insight.


As Sean said, no VOD w/TiVo and FIOS. With access to a number of Internet options plus Amazon VOD, Netflix and now Blockbuster we don't miss VOD at all. You can still get pay-per-view events by scheduling them w/Verizon and setting a manual recording on TiVo.


----------



## jap3

richsadams said:


> You can still get pay-per-view events by scheduling them w/Verizon and setting a manual recording on TiVo.


I was not aware of this. Thank you for the reply. I'll have to look into that.


----------



## richsadams

jap3 said:


> I was not aware of this. Thank you for the reply. I'll have to look into that.


No problem. It's certainly not as easy as doing it on a DVR, but it works. We get a periodic e-mail from Verizon with all of the PPV events and when you call they'll open that channel up. Sometimes things air all day, other times, say a concert or whatever, they start/stop at a particular time. But if you tune to the channel and then set an appropriate manual recording it works fine. Most of the time, unless I absolutely have to watch something live, I wait until it's available elsewhere and record it or download it then.


----------



## necrotaur

Its been a while since I have posted, but wanted to update about FIOS in Philly. I had purchased a 3rd TiVo HD and ordered cablecards. This time the tech came with M-Cards, and replaced the 4 S-Cards in my other TiVo HD's upon request. The tech was a super nice guy and it went smoothly. Now my cable card rentals for 3 HD boxes are cheaper than with two previously!

On a side note, I had no charge for a truck roll. I haven't for the 3 cable card installs I ordered over the last 2 years. I wonder if I am a lucky one, or more people don't get charged than do.

--Steve


----------



## richsadams

necrotaur said:


> Its been a while since I have posted, but wanted to update about FIOS in Philly. I had purchased a 3rd TiVo HD and ordered cablecards. This time the tech came with M-Cards, and replaced the 4 S-Cards in my other TiVo HD's upon request. The tech was a super nice guy and it went smoothly. Now my cable card rentals for 3 HD boxes are cheaper than with two previously!
> 
> On a side note, I had no charge for a truck roll. I haven't for the 3 cable card installs I ordered over the last 2 years. I wonder if I am a lucky one, or more people don't get charged than do.
> 
> --Steve


Nice! :up: Thanks for the update. IIRC a number of folks have said the VZ stopped charging for truck rolls a few months ago.


----------



## bicker

Howdy. My wife is really putting on the pressure to switch high-speed Internet service, so I'm back considering switching to FiOS.

Regarding television, from what I've just read, on the last four pages, our TiVo S3 will be fine, now that the pixelation problems have been resolved -- we just have to pay about $8 per month for two CableCARDs for it.

Can anyone point me towards a good place where I can get very balanced (and quick) replies regarding high-speed Internet service and telephone service? The questions I have are:

- I've currently got a 802.11n wireless router, and I understand that FiOS only provides a 802.11g wireless router. I understand also that there is a way to bridge the two, wiring my better wireless to their MoCa compatible router. Is that the case? (I need a couple more wired connections anyway. How many wired ports are in the router FiOS typically provides? Or should I plan on buying a hub?)

- I have Comcast Blast! service.... What can I reasonably expect in terms of improvement (or degradation) with regard to Internet service by switching to FiOS 25 Mbps/15 Mbps?

- I have ADT alarm service connected to my telephone. Am I correct in understanding that that won't be affected?

- I have Selective Ring (two telephone numbers, one telephone line). Does FiOS offer anything like that?


----------



## pilotbob

bicker said:


> - I've currently got a 802.11n wireless router, and I understand that FiOS only provides a 802.11g wireless router. I understand also that there is a way to bridge the two, wiring my better wireless to their MoCa compatible router. Is that the case? (I need a couple more wired connections anyway. How many wired ports are in the router FiOS typically provides? Or should I plan on buying a hub?)


Yes, you can attach your own router. Either put the FiOS router in bridge only mode and use your router for all NAT/DCHP stuff. Or, just turn off the wireless on the FiOS router and turn off DCHP/NAT on your router so you will just be using your current N router as a wireless access point.



bicker said:


> - I have ADT alarm service connected to my telephone. Am I correct in understanding that that won't be affected?
> 
> - I have Selective Ring (two telephone numbers, one telephone line). Does FiOS offer anything like that?


FiOS is about Internet/TV, it has nothing to do with phone. Your current phone service will remain unchanged... although they will switch your connection from copper to fiber optic.

BOb


----------



## lew

The Actiontec router supplied by FiOS has 4 ports for wired LAN. I'd assume any newer router would also have at least 4 ethernet ports.

http://www.dslreports.com/forums/all

is a good place for information. There are a couple of threads/sticky that tell you how to use your N router in conjunction with the FiOS supplied router.

Piliotbob--IF Bicker wants/needs to use MoCA (Verizon STB or MoCA adapter for use with tivo) wouldn't he have to use his N router as a wireless access point?

Bicker--If you pick up the right Actiontec router on ebay you can use one of the ports for your tivo and have 3 other ethernet ports for other equipment located in the same area as your tivo.


----------



## bicker

Believe it or not, I've got *six* wired Ethernet devices in the same room. Right now, I've only got four of them connected (the other two using wireless), but I'd rather go all wired if possible. I'll do one of the bridging approaches. I understand that since I'm using TiVo and not a FiOS STB, that I really don't need the MoCA router -- I probably could just connect my own, I suspect.


----------



## rocko

bicker said:


> Believe it or not, I've got *six* wired Ethernet devices in the same room. Right now, I've only got four of them connected (the other two using wireless), but I'd rather go all wired if possible. I'll do one of the bridging approaches. I understand that since I'm using TiVo and not a FiOS STB, that I really don't need the MoCA router -- I probably could just connect my own, I suspect.


You're correct about not needing the Actiontec if there are no STBs involved but the MoCA is convenient.

If you need to extend wired ethernet you can just get a switch and extend one of the 4 wired ports. Another router is unnecessary for that purpose.

However, if you want a wireless-N solution you can do as suggested and piggyback a N router off of the Actiontec. I do it here - it's not difficult.


----------



## bicker

The problem now seems to be that they won't commit to running Cat5 from the ONT to where all my computer and television equipment is, two floors above. No frakking way am I going to accept trying to get wireless connections through two storeys. WTF are they thinking?


----------



## BobCamp1

pilotbob said:


> FiOS is about Internet/TV, it has nothing to do with phone. Your current phone service will remain unchanged... although they will switch your connection from copper to fiber optic.
> 
> BOb


Incorrect.

Verizon offers their own VoIP. Switching to that or any other VoIP would negatively affect modem/fax performance.

If he uses the analog (POTS) over FIOS service, the installation comes with an 8 hour battery. After the battery is dead, you lose dial tone. The phones and alarm systems don't work anymore (unless you have a generator). The line quality using analog over FIOS is slightly better than copper, so if anything you'll get slightly better modem/fax performance.

If he's really paranoid, I think (with managerial approval) he can keep analog over copper which would avoid having to depend on the battery.


----------



## bicker

bicker said:


> Howdy. My wife is really putting on the pressure to switch high-speed Internet service, so I'm back considering switching to FiOS.


Okay, just got done with a manager. FiOS sucks, AFAIC. He told me that, without a doubt, they will not put the router in my loft without either me pre-wiring my home for Cat5, or them tacking Cat5 up from my basement stairs, up my foyer wall, under the lip of a step, over a threshold, and then down the wall in my loft -- exposed wires instead of snaked through the walls. He said that that is now hard and fast Verizon policy. Ridiculous. That more than overcomes any marginal advantage that FiOS might have offered.


----------



## rocko

bicker said:


> Okay, just got done with a manager. FiOS sucks, AFAIC. He told me that, without a doubt, they will not put the router in my loft without either me pre-wiring my home for Cat5, or them tacking Cat5 up from my basement stairs, up my foyer wall, under the lip of a step, over a threshold, and then down the wall in my loft -- exposed wires instead of snaked through the walls. He said that that is now hard and fast Verizon policy. Ridiculous. That more than overcomes any marginal advantage that FiOS might have offered.


But they will snake coax, no? What, exactly, is wrong with MoCA?


----------



## bkdtv

rocko said:


> But they will snake coax, no? What, exactly, is wrong with MoCA?


Nothing, aside from that fact that it forces you to use their router. Verizon's Westell 9100EM router is decent, but you can't get that in all areas (outside of ebay).

With MoCA, there's no need for wireless because you can add a Motorola NIM-100 (or another MoCA adapter) anywhere else in the home that you have coax to get a 100Mbps connection. I have a 100Mbps LAN connection to every PC and every TiVo using MoCA adapters, without ethernet or wireless. This isn't a quasi-100Mbps LAN connection; I see 85-90Mbps usable when transferring files between computers.


----------



## bicker

rocko said:


> But they will snake coax, no?


I dunno... no need, here, since the house is wired with coax already.



rocko said:


> What, exactly, is wrong with MoCA?


My message didn't refer to MoCA.


----------



## rocko

bicker said:


> I dunno... no need, here, since the house is wired with coax already.
> 
> My message didn't refer to MoCA.


Swell - here we go. Since you were going on about CAT-5 I assumed you had something against MoCA.

My bad. Have a nice day.


----------



## Jonathan_S

pilotbob said:


> FiOS is about Internet/TV, it has nothing to do with phone. Your current phone service will remain unchanged... although they will switch your connection from copper to fiber optic.


Since he's got alarm service I'd recommend telling Verizon that and making them leave copper for the phone connection. (They like to pull the copper and run everything over optical; but many alarm systems have issues with that).

And, possibly depending on your area, FIOS does offer triple-play bundles with either normal or VOIP phone service, in addition to TV and Internet.


----------



## rocko

Jonathan_S said:


> Since he's got alarm service I'd recommend telling Verizon that and making them leave copper for the phone connection. (They like to pull the copper and run everything over optical; but many alarm systems have issues with that).
> 
> And, possibly depending on your area, FIOS does offer triple-play bundles with either normal or VOIP phone service, in addition to TV and Internet.


Actually, from the customer perspective, FIOS is POTS on the customer side of the ONT. It is not VoIP in the classic sense, but the other poster is correct insomuch as loss of service once the battery backup runs out in the event of a power failure.

For the record, no one forces you to include phone in the FIOS bundle. It's just cheaper when you get all 3 services.


----------



## Jonathan_S

rocko said:


> Actually, from the customer perspective, FIOS is POTS on the customer side of the ONT. It is not VoIP in the classic sense, but the other poster is correct insomuch as loss of service once the battery backup runs out in the event of a power failure.
> 
> For the record, no one forces you to include phone in the FIOS bundle. It's just cheaper when you get all 3 services.


OK, apparently my knowledge was out of date. It looks like Verizon may have shut down their Vonage competitor, Voicewing, back in March.

When I signed up for FIOS I had the option of not bundling phone or bundling "traditional POTS" (over optical) or bundling Voicewing VOIP. (Or if I'd made a fuss, leaving the copper pairs for really traditional POTS but normally they only do this if you've got an alarm, since alarms often don't work right with POTS over optical)


----------



## lew

I'm confused. Why can't you just put your new router in the same location as your existing router?



bicker said:


> Okay, just got done with a manager. FiOS sucks, AFAIC. He told me that, without a doubt, they will not put the router in my loft without either me pre-wiring my home for Cat5, or them tacking Cat5 up from my basement stairs, up my foyer wall, under the lip of a step, over a threshold, and then down the wall in my loft -- exposed wires instead of snaked through the walls. He said that that is now hard and fast Verizon policy. Ridiculous. That more than overcomes any marginal advantage that FiOS might have offered.


----------



## bicker

Because the manager at Verizon customer support indicated that the router had to be connected to the ONT by Cat5, and the router needs to go two storeys above where the ONT would be.

Evidently, that was bs. FiOS must hire some real losers, if this guy made it to manager.


----------



## rocko

bicker said:


> Because the manager at Verizon customer support indicated that the router had to be connected to the ONT by Cat5, and the router needs to go two storeys above where the ONT would be.
> 
> Evidently, that was bs. FiOS must hire some real losers, if this guy made it to manager.


Complete BS. In fact, coax is widely considered the medium of choice. The router can go wherever you decide it should go.


----------



## bicker

So basically back to square one for me tomorrow. Grrr


----------



## lew

At least in NY the Verizon installers are Verizon employees (not independent contractors) and are capable of snaking wire. You may need to tip. Snaking wire is generally not included with basic installation with cable, FiOS or DTV.


My installation has a splitter coming out of the ONT box. One coax leg goes to the router and the other goes to my cable splitter (for video).

Is there any reason why your router can't be in whatever room is adjacent to your ONT?

Where is your router currently located? Do you already have cat5 running from the room nearest the likely location of your ONT to the present location of your router?


----------



## pilotbob

bicker said:


> Okay, just got done with a manager. FiOS sucks, AFAIC. He told me that, without a doubt, they will not put the router in my loft without either me pre-wiring my home for Cat5, or them tacking Cat5 up from my basement stairs, up my foyer wall, under the lip of a step, over a threshold, and then down the wall in my loft -- exposed wires instead of snaked through the walls. He said that that is now hard and fast Verizon policy. Ridiculous. That more than overcomes any marginal advantage that FiOS might have offered.


I don't get it. Where are they going to put your router? They have to run a cable to your "loft" to get you Internet.

BOb


----------



## pilotbob

BobCamp1 said:


> Incorrect.
> 
> Verizon offers their own VoIP. Switching to that or any other VoIP would negatively affect modem/fax performance.


VoiceWing has nothing to do with FiOS. FiOS is about Internet and TV. If you can go on their web site and find where it says FiOS phone service then I will agree I was incorrect.



BobCamp1 said:


> If he uses the analog (POTS) over FIOS service, the installation comes with an 8 hour battery. After the battery is dead, you lose dial tone. The phones and alarm systems don't work anymore (unless you have a generator). The line quality using analog over FIOS is slightly better than copper, so if anything you'll get slightly better modem/fax performance.


My understanding is that when you get FiOS they switch your POTS to the fiber from the copper.

Does ANYONE have FiOS and still have POTS over copper to the office?

Anyone?

BOb


----------



## richsadams

pilotbob said:


> Does ANYONE have FiOS and still have POTS over copper to the office?


We have the VZ FIOS bundle - TV, Broadband and phone. All work extremely well. All of the original phone wiring (from Comcast) is still in place. VZ phone doesn't affect/interact with anything else. Broadband speed is rock-solid steady (we have 20/5) and video PQ is perfect (excellent to stunning) on all of our TiVo's.

I already had the house wired with CAT5e to every room plus coax was already run to every room so VZ didn't have to do much more than install their equipment in the garage and connect it to one of the existing coax lines and our existing phone line. I made the VZ Westell router a bridge and am using my D-Link Xtreme N router for everything. It's on the second floor.

For bicker, I'd look into having a third party run whatever lines you may need (if you need any) and then just have VZ connect to them. It would certainly be a lot less trouble and FIOS is more than worth it IMHO. I think VZ will send someone out to look at your specific situation for free and they can certainly give you a much more informed opinion.


----------



## bicker

lew said:


> My installation has a splitter coming out of the ONT box. One coax leg goes to the router and the other goes to my cable splitter (for video).


The way it must work for me is that the cable coming out of the ONT gets split first, then on one of the runs, it gets split again, one side going to the router and the other side going to my TiVo S3. The other runs coming off that first splitter also will have DTAs/STBs. That will still work even though the router isn't on the same coax run as they are on, right?



lew said:


> Is there any reason why your router can't be in whatever room is adjacent to your ONT?


Typically, you don't bury your router under the foundation of the house.  (It's subterranean.) Besides, I will accept nothing other than hard-wired runs from my three computers, TiVo S3, BD Live player, and printer, to my router. If the router is not in the loft, like Comcast has it, then no sale.



lew said:


> Where is your router currently located?


In my loft, on the second floor, two floors above the basement.



lew said:


> Do you already have cat5 running from the room nearest the likely location of your ONT to the present location of your router?


No. That's exactly what the FiOS manager asked. Why does that matter if the router can go anywhere where there is coax???

I thought we were getting somewhere, but it sounds like there is still something to this Cat5 issue... Grrrrr


----------



## bicker

richsadams said:


> For bicker, I'd look into having a third party run whatever lines you may need (if you need any) and then just have VZ connect to them.


It isn't worth the bother or expense.



richsadams said:


> It would certainly be a lot less trouble and FIOS is more than worth it IMHO.


I disagree. Talking with my co-workers who have FiOS, I'm convinced that the advantage is marginal at best. I have great service with Comcast. There is no reason to take a step down (we lose the use of our S1, and our S2 becomes less reliable because it will have to operate a box, in a room where we've had a lot of electrical interference in the past -- not to mention that FiOS costs more, because they don't offer something comparable to Digital Economy) to FiOS for television, just to gain a small improvement in HSI.



richsadams said:


> I think VZ will send someone out to look at your specific situation for free and they can certainly give you a much more informed opinion.


No, the way it works is that you place the order, the installer comes and tells you how he's going to do the install, then, presumably you get to fight with him about it, and then you get a take-it-or-leave it choice. Unless the installer is willing to put the router in my loft without any additional expense to us, it wouldn't be worth it, and we'd all have just wasted a day. As I understand it, that's the only way it can work.


----------



## bicker

Okay, update... someone hit on why FiOS won't work in my home:



More Fiber said:


> [Having FiOS TV as well] adds an additional complication, since you need a coax connection from the ONT to your main splitter, and then from your main splitter to each of the STBs (for TV) *and* from the Actiontec back to the main splitter for the MOCA LAN (VOD, guide data to the STBs).


So now we're back to "it won't work". This is how it must be: (showing coax runs, only)



Code:


outside -- ONT ---- splitters
                       |-------- kitchen STB
                       |-------- bedroom STB
                       |-------- splitter in Loft
                                       |----------- router
                                       |----------- CableCARD device

So there is no run back from the router to the main splitter.

So after all that, it seems like the Verizon manager I spoke to was right. FiOS won't work in my home.


----------



## lew

bicker said:


> I have great service with Comcast. There is no reason to take a step down (we lose the use of our S1, and our S2 becomes less reliable because it will have to operate a box, in a room where we've had a lot of electrical interference in the past -- not to mention that FiOS costs more, because they don't offer something comparable to Digital Economy) to FiOS for television, just to gain a small improvement in HSI.


FiOS is currently giving a $150 gift card to new subscribers. That should be enough to pay someone to snake cat5 or coax from your basement to your loft.

I don't think you'd be happy using a S1 or S2 box with FiOS. JMO but I think you need to include the cost of purchasing at least one other S3.

Probably not worth it to you.


----------



## bicker

Around here, no one will come out to snake wiring for just one line. It's basically "rewire a whole bunch of rooms for $500" or nothing.

My wife won't approve a major purchase, like a new TiVo HD, at this time.


----------



## lew

bicker said:


> Around here, no one will come out to snake wiring for just one line. It's basically "rewire a whole bunch of rooms for $500" or nothing.
> 
> My wife won't approve a major purchase, like a new TiVo HD, at this time.


I don't think FiOS makes sense for you, unless you get lucky and one of your local Sears stores has any TivoHds left. One poster just got one for $20.

I think you could split the coax from the ONT and put your FiOS router in the basement. Get a MoCA adapter (NIM100?) use it to install your N router in your loft.

There is a good chance the installer knows someone who will snake wire "on the side".

Again I don't think FiOS makes sense for you regardless.

edited to add--Verizon frequently offers new subscribers a deal on one FiOS DVR. I'm paying just over $8/month (2 year deal). Assuming your wife decides better HIS is worth it you might see what kind of deal you can get on one FiOS DVR. My FiOS DVR recorded Fringe, my tivo missed the show (and I forced a connection at 7:30p)


----------



## DeWitt

bicker said:


> Okay, update... someone hit on why FiOS won't work in my home:
> 
> So now we're back to "it won't work". This is how it must be: (showing coax runs, only)
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> outside -- ONT ---- splitters
> -------- kitchen STB
> |-------- bedroom STB
> |-------- splitter in Loft
> |----------- router
> |----------- CableCARD device
> 
> So there is no run back from the router to the main splitter.
> 
> So after all that, it seems like the Verizon manager I spoke to was right. FiOS won't work in my home.


Mine is set up like that and it works great!

I had all the coax in place when the installer arrived, so no extra charge.

Mine is like this:



Code:


outside -- ONT ---- Basement Splitter
                       |-------- 1st Floor (Free Verizon DVR)
                       |-------- Second floor splitter 
                                       |----------- Verizon STB
                                       |----------- Verizon STB
                       |-------- Third Floor splitter
                                       |----------- router
                                       |----------- Tivo HD


----------



## pilotbob

bicker said:


> So now we're back to "it won't work". This is how it must be: (showing coax runs, only)
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> outside -- ONT ---- splitters
> |-------- kitchen STB
> |-------- bedroom STB
> |-------- splitter in Loft
> |----------- router
> |----------- CableCARD device
> 
> So there is no run back from the router to the main splitter.
> 
> So after all that, it seems like the Verizon manager I spoke to was right. FiOS won't work in my home.


That will work fine. I'm not sure why you think it won't work. As long as all the coax eventually leads back to the ONT as you show you are fine.

BOb


----------



## pilotbob

richsadams said:


> We have the VZ FIOS bundle - TV, Broadband and phone. All work extremely well. All of the original phone wiring (from Comcast) is still in place.


That doesn't say how your phone is connected to the home/central office. The bundled price has nothing to do with the technical connections.

I would bet that your phone wiring is connected to the ONT (optical network teminal) not to the old copper NID (network interface device).

BOb


----------



## bicker

DeWitt said:


> Mine is set up like that and it works great!
> 
> I had all the coax in place when the installer arrived, so no extra charge.
> 
> Mine is like this:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> outside -- ONT ---- Basement Splitter
> |-------- 1st Floor (Free Verizon DVR)
> |-------- Second floor splitter
> |----------- Verizon STB
> |----------- Verizon STB
> |-------- Third Floor splitter
> |----------- router
> |----------- Tivo HD


That seems very promising. If I could get some assurance that there is a way to have a TiVo S2 drive a FiOS STB, this might still be a possibility.

One thing I'm confused about is how that third floor router manages to communicate with that second floor STB. That seems like magic to me.


----------



## bicker

lew said:


> I don't think FiOS makes sense for you, unless you get lucky and one of your local Sears stores has any TivoHds left. One poster just got one for $20.


Maybe I should consider the Moxi HD DVR for $500?


----------



## rocko

bicker said:


> That seems very promising. If I could get some assurance that there is a way to have a TiVo S2 drive a FiOS STB, this might still be a possibility.
> 
> One thing I'm confused about is how that third floor router manages to communicate with that second floor STB. That seems like magic to me.


They're all hooked up to the same coax. It works.


----------



## rocko

bicker said:


> Maybe I should consider the Moxi HD DVR for $500?


Maybe you should.


----------



## richsadams

bicker said:


> It isn't worth the bother or expense.
> 
> I disagree. Talking with my co-workers who have FiOS, I'm convinced that the advantage is marginal at best. I have great service with Comcast. There is no reason to take a step down (we lose the use of our S1, and our S2 becomes less reliable because it will have to operate a box, in a room where we've had a lot of electrical interference in the past -- not to mention that FiOS costs more, because they don't offer something comparable to Digital Economy) to FiOS for television, just to gain a small improvement in HSI.
> 
> No, the way it works is that you place the order, the installer comes and tells you how he's going to do the install, then, presumably you get to fight with him about it, and then you get a take-it-or-leave it choice. Unless the installer is willing to put the router in my loft without any additional expense to us, it wouldn't be worth it, and we'd all have just wasted a day. As I understand it, that's the only way it can work.


So...you've never had FIOS installed but you know "how it works" and have no first-hand experience with PQ and other "advantages" of FIOS over Comcast but believe them to be "marginal". Hmmm...sounds like you're trying to convince yourself that you've made the right decision. Glad we could help with that...or not.


----------



## richsadams

rocko said:


> They're all hooked up to the same coax. It works.


Yes..it does.


----------



## pilotbob

BobCamp1 said:


> One thing I'm confused about is how that third floor router manages to communicate with that second floor STB. That seems like magic to me.


Because you can trace a path from the router to the spliter then to the STB. The MOcA data flows both ways through the splitter... it is bi-directional signal on the same cable.

If you can get a cable TV signal at both the STB and the Router than the STB and the Router will be able to communicate.

BOb


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

pilotbob said:


> Because you can trace a path from the router to the spliter then to the STB. The MOcA data flows both ways through the splitter... it is bi-directional signal on the same cable.


One potential problem is that the MoCA signals are "above" the normal cable TV signals, they're in the 1 GHz range. If you have RG-6 cable and GHz splitters you're probably OK. But if you have RG-59 cable and old 500 MHz splitters you will probably be SOL. I'm speaking theoretically since I have no personal experience with MoCA.


----------



## bicker

richsadams said:


> So...you've never had FIOS installed but you know "how it works" and have no first-hand experience with PQ and other "advantages" of FIOS over Comcast but believe them to be "marginal". Hmmm...sounds like you're trying to convince yourself that you've made the right decision. Glad we could help with that...or not.


Rather, I think I have all the information I need to decide how much each is better than the other, and you just don't *like *the decision.

As it is, I haven't eliminated FiOS from contention. They have clueless customer service personnel, and much worse customer service overall, than Comcast. However, some folks in the FiOS forum spent last night correcting a lot of very bad information Verizon has provided me.

However, thanks for trying to psychoanalyze me and trying to make the very rational and informed decision-making which I regularly engage in sound like something else, just because you didn't like its ramifications.


----------



## bicker

Phantom Gremlin said:


> One potential problem is that the MoCA signals are "above" the normal cable TV signals, they're in the 1 GHz range. If you have RG-6 cable and GHz splitters you're probably OK. But if you have RG-59 cable and old 500 MHz splitters you will probably be SOL. I'm speaking theoretically since I have no personal experience with MoCA.


I'm very concerned about the splitter in the attic, but I suspect that if that's what's holding everything up, the installer will gladly replace it, despite having to climb up a ladder to get to the splitter. As long as they can just use the coax (it's all heavy-duty stuff... RG6) it may work out.


----------



## richsadams

bicker said:


> Rather, I think I have all the information I need to decide how much each is better than the other, and you just don't *like *the decision.


Oh please, don't flatter yourself. I could care less about your decision. Your argumentative know-it-all attitude and ungrateful manner about any help folks try to give you here is just irritating and childish. It just amazes me when people ask for help and then complain and attempt to invalidate what others politely post when they receive it. Weren't you kicked off of this forum for that before? Some folks never learn.


----------



## bicker

richsadams said:


> Oh please, don't flatter yourself.


It's not flattery. It's simply the truth.



richsadams said:


> I could care less about your decision.


Then keep your baseless, antagonistic criticisms of it to yourself.



richsadams said:


> Your argumentative know-it-all attitude and ungrateful manner about any help folks try to give you here is just irritating and childish.


Your comment that I was referring to was not meant as helpful. You know that. You attacked blindly because you didn't like the ramifications of what you read. You probably even knew that I have more than enough insight into the relative merits of the services offered by the various providers in my area, yet you still posted your attack. Stop trying to avoid responsibility for what you wrote.



richsadams said:


> It just amazes me when people ask for help and then complain and attempt to invalidate what others politely post when they receive it.


Nice of you to label comments like "I disagree" as a complaint. Another self-serving rationalization. You might be able to label some of my other comments as impolite, but not these here. The lack of civility in this thread is all on you.



richsadams said:


> Weren't you kicked off of this forum for that before? Some folks never learn.


What are you talking about? I've never been kicked off of this forum. Have you? How many times? What did you learn from it?


----------



## richsadams

bicker said:


> What are you talking about? I've never been kicked off of this forum. Have you? How many times? What did you learn from it?


Hmmm....my mistake...someone else named "bicker" is listed. Must be a coincidence. Me, no never been kicked off or out of anything, but thanks for asking. 'Nuff said.


----------



## bicker

Ridiculous.


----------



## JWThiers

I had considered not posting but I didn't see any clear answer and I figure others might be in a similar situation and might need some advice. If I understand bickers problem concerning the network setup, he is thinking about switching to Fios but has some issue with placement of actual hardware (fios router in basement regular network router in a loft on the third floor, not wanting to run extra wiring etc). I don't have fios but my understanding is that their router and STB's uses MoCA for their networking and if you want to add an ethernet port somewhere if there is a cable coax all you need to do is add a MoCA adapter (Google it if you want to price them out, a quick search found some on amazon for about $70) and you are set. ASSUMING your hardware infrastructure (the cabling and splitters etc) can handle it (RG6 good, RG59 YMMV) what bicker could do is put the fios router in the basement as the Verizon people want put a MoCA adapter in the loft turn off the DHCP server and use his current router as a switch. This would make it so the only change is where the router is (now in the basement on the fios router) and uses his existing network wiring for everything else. On the wireless side (I haven't tried it, but in theory) he could use the B/G on the Fios router and N only on his current router set to Access Point mode.

Concerning S1/S2 tivo's controlling Verizon boxes I have no idea. I have never owned an S1 or S2 and Verizon isn't available in my area nor do they have any plans to be in my area.


----------



## lew

Bicker--If you decide to swich to FiOS:
1) You may be told you can't have 2 routers. This is true, if you use your N router you'll be configuring it in bridge mode and it won't really be operating as a router.
2) You might want to give their DVR a try. You read possible reviews on the new Moxi (and possible new tivo's in 2010) and then decide what equipment you'll replace.
3)I don't know if any of the FiOS boxes can be controlled by tivo via serial. You


----------



## dlfl

richsadams said:


> Hmmm....my mistake...someone else named "bicker" is listed. ...........


What list? Who has access to it?


----------



## bicker

JWThiers said:


> If I understand bickers problem concerning the network setup, he is thinking about switching to Fios but has some issue with placement of actual hardware (fios router in basement regular network router in a loft on the third floor, not wanting to run extra wiring etc).


More specifically was the implication that the router had to be connected to the ONT via Ethernet connection, instead of the reality, that they can be connected to each other solely via coax, as long as you're willing to use a MoCA router as your path to the Internet (regardless of whether you put other routers inside the LAN served by that MoCA router).



JWThiers said:


> I don't have fios but my understanding is that their router and STB's uses MoCA for their networking and if you want to add an ethernet port somewhere if there is a cable coax all you need to do is add a MoCA adapter


It is even easier than that, for me, since I personally only really need one router, in my loft -- the issue was whether their router, supporting their STB's need for MoCA-served access to its data-source, could be located where *I* wanted that one router, as opposed to (as some of the FiOS CSRs and their manager was telling me) that it would have to be (effectively buried) in my basement.



JWThiers said:


> ASSUMING your hardware infrastructure (the cabling and splitters etc) can handle it (RG6 good, RG59 YMMV)


12 year old RG6... very good as far as I can tell. Again, the only weak link might be a barrel connector (I thought originally it was a splitter, but then my wife reminded me that we had Comcast disconnect cable in the second bedroom, and therefore replaced that splitter with a barrel connector) in my attic.



JWThiers said:


> what bicker could do is put the fios router in the basement as the Verizon people want; put a MoCA adapter in the loft; turn off the DHCP server and use his current router as a switch.


Yeah, that's possible as I understand it now, but presumably, based on what a lot of folks on some FiOS specific forums have been telling me since late yesterday, unnecessary. Essentially, Verizon shouldn't impose the requirement of putting their router in the basement: I'm being told it should be placed in my loft where I want it.

If not, I will not permit the installer to install my service, and I'll stick with Comcast.



JWThiers said:


> ... On the wireless side (I haven't tried it, but in theory) he could use the B/G on the Fios router and N only on his current router set to Access Point mode.


I'm going to go down the path of bridging my router onto their router, and use my router solely for Wireless-N traffic.



JWThiers said:


> Concerning S1/S2 tivo's controlling Verizon boxes I have no idea. I have never owned an S1 or S2 and Verizon isn't available in my area nor do they have any plans to be in my area.


My understanding is that S1s never got updated IR codes for DTAs like the Motorola DCT 700, or for STBs like the Motorola QIP 2500, that FiOS uses here in the northeast. The S2s have gotten updated IR codes, of course, but I'm not sure if they have codes for the QIP 2500 -- doesn't matter because if you're going to use a S2, why have a FiOS STB? Just get the DTA, the Motorola DCT 700, and I'm pretty-sure I remember seeing some messages indicating that that is in the TiVo IR database.


----------



## bicker

lew said:


> Bicker--If you decide to swich to FiOS:
> 1) You may be told you can't have 2 routers. This is true, if you use your N router you'll be configuring it in bridge mode and it won't really be operating as a router.


Yeah, I suppose, if you're bridging the two (as I plan to, now). There are approaches (discussed in detail in the thread from which I got a lot of great advice late yesterday) that do involve having two routers, operating as routers. Way too complicated for me, though.



lew said:


> 2) You might want to give their DVR a try. You read possible reviews on the new Moxi (and possible new tivo's in 2010) and then decide what equipment you'll replace.


Yeah, I'll talk with my wife about it. It's free for the first 90 days if we want it. It just seems wasteful given that my TiVo S3 had better work, and I've got 1 TB of storage in it. Having said that, I could use it as a back-up for a few months and then just return it. I can return it just seven miles down the highway, at Jordan's Furniture.



lew said:


> 3)I don't know if any of the FiOS boxes can be controlled by tivo via serial. You


I read some indication that that was the case with at least one box. I'll research that in greater detail over the next week or so.

BTW: I called Verizon *repair* this morning. They asked what number I was calling for repair on and I replied, "Yours!" They tried to call the business office themselves, and got the same error. They transferred me over internally so I could make the fixes to my order, and said that they'd indeed dispatch a repair for themselves to fix the problem with their customer service line. I had a need to make another call later (because the change that I made showed up on their website apparently different from what I asked for -- turned out it is just that the website is buggy -- it shows changes and adds, but does not reflect deletions) and the call went through this time, so evidently they fixed their own line problem pretty quick.


----------



## NotVeryWitty

bicker, FYI, there was a thread in the Coffee House forum a few days ago about using serial cables between a Series 2 and the FIOS SD set-top box: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=436795

I've been considering switching to FIOS, and this is one of the issues I've been worried about (I've got 3 S2's, and can't afford to upgrade them at the present time). According to post #4 in that thread, using serial works for 3-digit channels (I've read elsewhere that the S2 doesn't support sending 4 digits to the serial port). I really want to avoid the IR blasters if I can.


----------



## JWThiers

lew said:


> Bicker--If you decide to swich to FiOS:
> 1) You may be told you can't have 2 routers. This is true, if you use your N router you'll be configuring it in bridge mode and it won't really be operating as a router.


Not exactly, you could use a second router to make a new subnet. But that is a bit more complex than most people are willing to do.


----------



## lew

bicker said:


> Yeah, I'll talk with my wife about it. It's free for the first 90 days if we want it. It just seems wasteful given that my TiVo S3 had better work, and I've got 1 TB of storage in it. Having said that, I could use it as a back-up for a few months and then just return it. I can return it just seven miles down the highway, at Jordan's Furniture.


I'd still use your S3, I'd use the FiOS DVR instead of your S1 unit. That will give you time to decide if you like the FiOS DVR, want to get a 2010 tivo or a Moxi. My FiOS DVR recorded Fringe. You want at least one "real" FiOS STB (either regular or DVR) so you can decide how much use you'll get from VoD. Their VoD provides cc (on at least the shows I checked).


----------



## Ziggy86

2010 Tivo? Are they releasing a new model? Any info on them?


----------



## lew

Ziggy86 said:


> 2010 Tivo? Are they releasing a new model? Any info on them?


Mainly rumors. A tivo that works with DTV has already been announced. A Best Buy version of tivo has been announced.

At some time tivo is going to have to release units based on the newer broadcom chipsets. It makes no sense to think tivo will let Moxi be that far ahead of tivo.

A very knowledgable poster said dropping analog (and OTA) support would allow tivo to either reduce the price or add features (extra tuners) for about the current price.

The new Moxi may make sense for some of us but waiting a few months makes sense.


----------



## Doug G

My two HD Tivos with cablecards both show two channel 572 (ESPN news) in the channel lineup. I can't disable or enable only one, they appear to be connected. Anyone else have this problem? I don't see how it could be just me with two separate units having the same problem. Tried searching and couldn't find anything about this problem so hoping someone knows what's going on.


----------



## Doug G

Posted over on the Boston-VZ thread on AVS and someone indicated this is a provider channel error (572 listed as both ESPN News and ESPN News HD) and submitted a lineup report to Tivo for their Vz region which eventually corrected the problem. I just did the same so hopefully they fix it quickly.


----------



## rage777

bicker said:


> It is even easier than that, for me, since I personally only really need one router, in my loft -- the issue was whether their router, supporting their STB's need for MoCA-served access to its data-source, could be located where *I* wanted that one router, as opposed to (as some of the FiOS CSRs and their manager was telling me) that it would have to be (effectively buried) in my basement.


I don't know why they would tell you where to put it, unless you don't have a coax outlet near where your router is. When my FIOS was installed I told the installer where to put the router. They might be telling you where they want to put the ONT and backup battery, but not the router.


----------



## pilotbob

rage777 said:


> I don't know why they would tell you where to put it, unless you don't have a coax outlet near where your router is. When my FIOS was installed I told the installer where to put the router. They might be telling you where they want to put the ONT and backup battery, but not the router.


+1 I agree. The CSR don't know what they are talking about. They mean the ONT. I mean, the MUST run coax to where your TV to hook up the STB. And, the Router connects to the ONT with coax also.

BOb


----------



## JWThiers

pilotbob said:


> +1 I agree. The CSR don't know what they are talking about. They mean the ONT. I mean, the MUST run coax to where your TV to hook up the STB. And, the Router connects to the ONT with coax also.
> 
> BOb


The only thing that MIGHT be a POSSIBLE issue (I have no idea one way or the other) is IF the router has to be within x feet of the ONT and the run is just too long to meet that (say x + 20. feet). Personally I don't see where it matters that much, just mount the router on the wall next to the ONT and then use your current router as a switch/wireless AP or if that really bothers you just plug the lan out from the new router into the internet in port on your old make a new subnet (You lose the MoCA this way but YOUR network stays the same).


----------



## bicker

The only reason we're switching to FiOS is for a higher-speed, more reasonably priced HSI service. Introducing a wireless bridge, through two floors, is a non-starter.


----------



## JWThiers

bicker said:


> Introducing a wireless bridge, through two floors, is a non-starter.


No need to do it wireless (assuming you have coax where you want your router), you just need a MoCA adapter like this one. For that matter I would think that Verizon includes them (or at least a certain number of them with an install (I don't have verizon in my area so I never got that far into seeing what hardware is included). If they don't include any you would have to buy one, if they only include 1 have them set it up for the computer where you want your router to be and when they leave put the router/switch there (however you choose to set it up as) in its place.

If you don't have a coax where you want to keep your router then to tell the truth you can put a switch anywhere in the network and it would still work it just starts to be a bit of a kludge (more hardware a little more thinking when troubleshooting network issues). There are many options available that use the existing setup. Some less optimal than others its just a matter of being creative and a little flixible. The flexible part is adding a large paperback sized box (a switch/router) into your setup and possibly having to conceal it some way Or just put it on to of your STB.

Of course you could also run the coax /ethernet where you want it either DIY or if they don't include that in the install pay someone.

For those that don't know how to, in simple terms, to set it up as a new subnet, just plug the feed from the verizon router into the internet in on your router. the downside is anything connected thru your router isn't visible to the stuff on the verizon router and you can't use the moca to anything but your router.

To set it up as a switch (Adding more ports to an existing network) turn off DHCP on your router and connect the verizon router to one on the regular lan ports instead of the internet port. This way is probably the best option because everything is still on the same subnet.


----------



## bicker

JWThiers said:


> No need to do it wireless (assuming you have coax where you want your router), you just need a MoCA adapter like this one. For that matter I would think that Verizon includes them (or at least a certain number of them with an install (I don't have verizon in my area so I never got that far into seeing what hardware is included).


The folks on the VZ forums didn't indicate any solution akin to what you're describing. This is the reference I'm using:

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/verizonfios/3.0_Networking

Which of the options are you suggesting? Could you describe the topology of the network you're suggesting?



JWThiers said:


> If they don't include any you would have to buy one, if they only include 1 have them set it up for the computer where you want your router to be and when they leave put the router/switch there (however you choose to set it up as) in its place.
> 
> If you don't have a coax where you want to keep your router then to tell the truth you can put a switch anywhere in the network and it would still work it just starts to be a bit of a kludge (more hardware a little more thinking when troubleshooting network issues). There are many options available that use the existing setup. Some less optimal than others its just a matter of being creative and a little flixible. The flexible part is adding a large paperback sized box (a switch/router) into your setup and possibly having to conceal it some way Or just put it on to of your STB.
> 
> Of course you could also run the coax /ethernet where you want it either DIY or if they don't include that in the install pay someone.
> 
> For those that don't know how to, in simple terms, to set it up as a new subnet, just plug the feed from the verizon router into the internet in on your router. the downside is anything connected thru your router isn't visible to the stuff on the verizon router and you can't use the moca to anything but your router.
> 
> To set it up as a switch (Adding more ports to an existing network) turn off DHCP on your router and connect the verizon router to one on the regular lan ports instead of the internet port. This way is probably the best option because everything is still on the same subnet.


Is there any mystery why people don't like MoCA. None of what you wrote made any sense to me! 

... except for the bits about fishing wires through walls, which I have no interest in pursuing, since I didn't need to do that for Comcast HSI.


----------



## bicker

Okay, reading a bit more on this adapter. If I understand it correctly, essentially, it allows you to turn any coax port in your home into an Ethernet access point, as long as you have a MoCA router connected to the coax in your home. I suspect that I could plug a hub (or another router, configured without DHCP) into that adapter, and have the same effect. 

All docs I've read talk about doing this with a NIM-100 -- I guess this is a replacement for that.

As it is, I'm not going to let them tell me to do that. They're going to put the router in my loft (there's a coax port there). I won't let them bury it in my basement. They can take their service and shove it if they cannot comply with that request.


----------



## lew

Bicker--NIM100 has been discontinued for a long time (at least a year?). A couple of other companies now have products. I don't think the general public knows about MoCA. MoCA adapters are more expensive then wireless.

I'm surprised tivo doesn't include MoCA. Instead of buying a wireless tivo adapter for each unit you'd just buy one MoCA bridge to connect to your router (not required for FiOS customers with a MoCA router).

Your diagram suggests your coax is split twice before it gets to your loft. FiOS will check your signal strenght. I wouldn't be surprised they want to replace your splitters, maybe even replace some connectors. Is there an easy way to change your wiring so it goes to your loft then gets split to your bedroom?

edited to add--based on Dewitt's subsequent post I think the only issue will be if your coax has problems--damaged by a staple for example.


----------



## DeWitt

My instalers wanted a single run to the HD TIVO, as they said they had been told that the TIVO needed a hot signal. I told them how I wanted it wired, and they said OK, just understand it is not how we recommend you do it. Of course I had done my research and knew that the too hot signal was the problem.

I found that although they might make recommendations the installers where open to doing it how I wanted.

As i stated in a previous post it all works fine for me with the router on the third floor. Signal strength is fine even with the splitters. I ued to have to attenuate the signal at the tivo but since the software fix I don't anymore. The Tivo shows 100&#37;.

Internet service is rock solid and very fast. I had good quality cable modem service before, but Fios blows it away. It is really nice not to be on shared node with 250 of my neighbors.

And for the record, my router has a three way and a two way splitter between it and the ONT and over 100 feet of coax. (admittedly high quality quad shield coax...)


----------



## pilotbob

JWThiers said:


> The only thing that MIGHT be a POSSIBLE issue (I have no idea one way or the other) is IF the router has to be within x feet of the ONT and the run is just too long to meet that (say x + 20. feet).


I found this:

What is the recommended maximum range between units?
Recommended maximum of 300 feet of cable between the root node and the coax outlet.

It was here:
http://mocablog.net/faq/

I have the ONT on the outside of my house. It is connected via a coax, perhaps about 30-40 feet long to a distribution box on the outside of the house with a splitter. From that splitter there are 4 drops into the house. Two of them run all the way to the other side of the house (burried under ground)... probably 80-100 feet or so. I have the NIM100 (yes a pretty old FIOS install) attached behind my family room HDTV connected to one of the 100+ foot drops. I have a FiOS STB in the master bedroom. Cable length between them must be about 150 feet or so. The MoCA works fine. I get the guide and VOD without issue. Of course, both of those communicate over the MoCA to the NIM which is connected to my ethernet infrastructure.

BOb


----------



## bicker

lew said:


> Your diagram suggests your coax is split twice before it gets to your loft. FiOS will check your signal strenght. I wouldn't be surprised they want to replace your splitters, maybe even replace some connectors.


Hmmm... actually, I have an amp... that will have to come out for MoCA to work right? That could be a problem that FiOS will have to solve, AFAIC. EDITED: Wait -- FiOS tends to run hot, so I won't need the amp anymore.



lew said:


> Is there an easy way to change your wiring so it goes to your loft then gets split to your bedroom?


No.



lew said:


> edited to add--based on Dewitt's subsequent post I think the only issue will be if your coax has problems--damaged by a staple for example.


Damage I think isn't going to be an issue, but it's a long run, from the subterranean basement to the attic above the second floor, then back down into the loft on the second floor.


----------



## lew

MoCA compatable amps exist. I don't think you'll need one.


----------



## Scyber

From what I have read in this thread, you shouldn't have any issue with the placement of your router. It doesn't need to be near the ONT, they just need the ability to run cat-5 or coax from one to the other. For my original install FIOS had to run over 150ft of cat-5 for my router. They were on opposite sides of the house and their was no attic to run through on the ONT side of the house. They wound up running it outside the house to my other attic.

That reminders me, I have to take down that wire now that I finished re-wiring my entire house...


----------



## JWThiers

bicker said:


> Okay, reading a bit more on this adapter. If I understand it correctly, essentially, it allows you to turn any coax port in your home into an Ethernet access point, as long as you have a MoCA router connected to the coax in your home. I suspect that I could plug a hub (or another router, configured without DHCP) into that adapter, and have the same effect.


You got the general idea. Its just like having another ethernet cable running preinstalled in your house.


----------



## bicker

Scyber said:


> For my original install FIOS had to run over 150ft of cat-5 for my router. They were on opposite sides of the house and their was no attic to run through on the ONT side of the house. They wound up running it outside the house to my other attic.


That's not permitted here.


----------



## rocko

bicker said:


> That's not permitted here.


They're not running CAT-5 for you anyway, so it's irrelevant.


----------



## bicker

Yes true.


----------



## Scyber

Sorry if my post was unclear, I meant to highlight the distances (in wire length) between the ONT and the Router and that VZ would install from that far away. The actual route the wire took was not what I was pointing out.


----------



## rage777

bicker said:


> That seems very promising. If I could get some assurance that there is a way to have a TiVo S2 drive a FiOS STB, this might still be a possibility.


I have my Tivo S2 hooked up with my FIOS STB and it works fine, not great but good enough. It just takes a long time to change channels before recording a show. So if you are on channel 4 and want to record channel 7, you will see some of the channel 4 in the recording. I have found that you can record HD channels also, it just saves them as SD (yeah, I am not sure why you would want to do it either, but I was just testing).


----------



## rocko

S2 boxes work fine with FIOS. You can even use the serial cable with the QIP-2500 Moto boxes but there is still a glitch when switching to a 4 digit channel via the serial cable. 4 digit channels are duplicates in the La Connexion FIOS lineup so this doesn't affect me personally. The serial cable is fine since 4 digit channels are not important to me.

IR blasters work fine - even for 4 digit channels.


----------



## bicker

rage777 said:


> I have found that you can record HD channels also, it just saves them as SD (yeah, I am not sure why you would want to do it either, but I was just testing).


My S2 is connected to a widescreen display, so I suppose I could record the HD version, save it as SD, then stretch it on playback.



rocko said:


> S2 boxes work fine with FIOS. You can even use the serial cable with the QIP-2500 Moto boxes but there is still a glitch when switching to a 4 digit channel via the serial cable.


I've never used a serial cable with my S2. What's the actual cable I need to use?


----------



## rocko

bicker said:


> I've never used a serial cable with my S2. What's the actual cable I need to use?


It's the one that's not the IR blaster. It looks like a mini-headphone plug on both ends.


----------



## dbenrosen

bkdtv said:


> (From post of 10/27) There is no longer any charge for the CableCard installation.


Where did you get that information?

I just got another TiVo and need a cablecard for it. I called and was informed they would charge me $79 to install the cablecard. I argued that there was no other way for me to get the Cablecard, and they offered to mail me for free, and for 3 months of free rental, one of their DVRs. I spoke to a "supervisor" who said the best they could do was split the cost over 3 payments. Somehow this seems to violate the spirit, if not the letter, of the requirement for companies to supply Cablecards for 3rd party devices. I canceled that appointment and used the online chat feature to order one. They scheduled an appointment and didn't say anything about the cost for the installation. I can't imagine they aren't going to try to charge me for it.


----------



## bicker

rocko said:


> It's the one that's not the IR blaster. It looks like a mini-headphone plug on both ends.


Oh, you mean it was shipped with the S2? Hmm.... I don't know if I still have it then... I'll have to look.


----------



## rocko

bicker said:


> Oh, you mean it was shipped with the S2? Hmm.... I don't know if I still have it then... I'll have to look.


Yes, they shipped with my S2DT boxes along with the IR blasters.


----------



## bkdtv

dbenrosen said:


> Where did you get that information?


Verizon corporate.

You won't be charged for the installation.


----------



## JWThiers

bicker said:


> Oh, you mean it was shipped with the S2? Hmm.... I don't know if I still have it then... I'll have to look.


There are actually a couple of different cables depending on what ports are on each device. If the serial ports on the devices look like mini headphone jacks, I think a standard stereo M-M cable will work.


----------



## joe1515

Has any else been having problems with the audio dropping in an out when watching Smallville? 

This is the only issue I ever have.

Joe


----------



## bicker

AAMOF, I have. I attributed it to flakiness of our local CW feed to local service providers, but I could believe that it was a network-wide problem, unless someone says that they are sure that they didn't note any audio drop-outs.


----------



## joe1515

bicker said:


> AAMOF, I have. I attributed it to flakiness of our local CW feed to local service providers, but I could believe that it was a network-wide problem, unless someone says that they are sure that they didn't note any audio drop-outs.


Sorry for my ignorance but I am curios, what does AAMOF stand for?


----------



## bicker

As a matter of fact.


----------



## dlfl

It's usually quicker to Google an acronym, e.g:

http://www.netlingo.com/word/aamof.php

There is an "official" TC acronym glossary, linked from the FAQ tab obove.

But AAMOF isn't in it! Does that mean using it is a "technical foul" ? 

Another thing I've noticed is that (according to the "official" glossary) "OP" means "original poster" or "original post" (depending on context). However some folks here use it to mean "other person", which can be confusing.


----------



## bicker

AAMOF -> http://www.netlingo.com/word/aamof.php


----------



## MookieDoug

_From 10/27_


bkdtv said:


> S-CARDs were discontinued 18 months ago and Verizon hasn't carried them in any market since late spring / early summer.
> 
> Verizon installers don't have S-CARDs unless they were just removed from another customer's home in the past day or two. When the installer calls 30-60 minutes prior to their arrival, tell them you want M-CARDs so they can pick them up from the office if necessary.
> 
> My installer in N. VA said he hadn't seen a S-CARD in almost ten months. All they have at the VA/MD office is boxes and boxes of M-CARDs.


I haven't been on the forums much since my initial install of cable cards for my Fios service back in March. Last week I bought a new Tivo HD XL for my basement, and called to schedule a time to get an M-card for it. The conversation went like this:

Me: I just bought a Tivo and I need a cable card for it.
CSR: Sure...but I imagine you'll want 2 cable cards so you can utilize the dual tuner functionality.
Me: No, I just need 1 M-card.
CSR: We don't have the M-cards yet, only S-cards. 
Me: That's funny, because when Verizon came to install a cable card into my other Tivo in March...let me see, that was 8 months ago...they supplied me with an M-card.
CSR: Well, that's not possible. We don't have M-cards.
Me: I'd be happy to take a photo of it and email it to you if you want.
CSR: That won't be necessary. So do you want 2 cards or 1?
Me: I want 1 M-Card.
CSR: I can't order you an M-card. I can either put you down for 1 single card or 2 single cards. What do you want?

Well, it went on from there like a bad Abbott & Costello routine. I got confirmation from him that A) Even if he orders me 2 S-cards, I'll only be charged for the amount of cards the Tech installs, and B) the tech would call me before arriving. So I'm sure that the local tech/install offices only have M-cards (which I'll confirm with them before they arrive), but it also appears that the CSR reps at Verizon STILL have either not been told, or not trained well enough to know that Motorola only supplies M-cards now. It's amazing to me that they don't seem to care enough to fix their facts.

(Having said all that, watch the tech arrive next week with S-cards only...)


----------



## bkdtv

The Verizon CSR was probably told that during their training course 18-24 months ago. That information is out of date.

You only need to order one CableCard. You'll get a M-CARD.

The installer should call you 30-40 minutes prior to their arrival and ask you about the equipment. Tell them you have a TivoHD that requires one M-CARD.


----------



## bicker

Very likely. It should be noted, though, that a subscriber can say that they want to order one M-card all they want, but if the CSR has no way to enter such an order, and can only enter an order for a certain number of CableCARDs (generic, or worse, for S-cards), then that's as far as a subscriber can expect to get with the CSRs. So you are taking your chances ordering one CableCARD in that situation -- you could end up with an S-card. I think it might be safer to order two, and then return one.


----------



## Scyber

I just got 3 m-cards installed today. 2 replaced 4 s-cards on my 2 existing tivo's and 1 was installed in my new tivo. I just ordered cablecards. Didn't specify s or m. When the installer got here he knew the difference and said he hasn't been issued an s-card for months.


----------



## sender_name

so should I cancel my 2 cards and then reorder 1 card to move from 2 S to 1 M so I only pay for 1 card a month? I mean it makes sense, but how to I explain to the CSR that I am being overcharged because I have outdated stuff...Maybe if i call and claim the cards dont work..


----------



## richsadams

sender_name said:


> so should I cancel my 2 cards and then reorder 1 card to move from 2 S to 1 M so I only pay for 1 card a month? I mean it makes sense, but how to I explain to the CSR that I am being overcharged because I have outdated stuff...Maybe if i call and claim the cards dont work..


There are several other posts by folks that have done just that...ordered a new cable card to cut back on costs. Some FIOS CSR's understand some don't, but in either case the tech's do understand and will bring M cable cards...installing one to replace your two S cards.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

bicker said:


> Very likely. It should be noted, though, that a subscriber can say that they want to order one M-card all they want, but if the CSR has no way to enter such an order, and can only enter an order for a certain number of CableCARDs (generic, or worse, for S-cards), then that's as far as a subscriber can expect to get with the CSRs. So you are taking your chances ordering one CableCARD in that situation -- you could end up with an S-card. I think it might be safer to order two, and then return one.


At the risk of going OT a bit, how did the Fios install go (assuming you made the switch to them)? Everything good with the router over coax in the loft? Happy with everything? (I'll have service in March so it's fun and reassuring to read up-to-date install stories before diving in. lol.)


----------



## bicker

BigJimOutlaw said:


> At the risk of going OT a bit, how did the Fios install go (assuming you made the switch to them)? Everything good with the router over coax in the loft? Happy with everything? (I'll have service in March so it's fun and reassuring to read up-to-date install stories before diving in. lol.)


I don't think it's off-topic at all... Series 3; check. Verizon FiOS; check. Compatibility issues, etc.; check.

Part 1. (I'll post another update after a month, I suppose.) This will be mostly my impressions of Verizon's FiOS roll-out, my sales experience, my install experience, and my initial impressions after a day or so.

As I mentioned previously, there was a bit of a wait for FiOS to come to town. That's not unexpected. They're not obligated to deploy this their most advanced service everywhere all at once. However, after the fiber was run past my home, I started pursuing the issue of when connection options would be made available to me. I made first contact with Verizon on August 31, 2007, and followed-up (almost all to our local area's engineer -- not just the customer support people) on April 7, 2008, May 12, May 29, June 5, August 12, and November 25 before finally getting a call back on December 5 informing me that we could now order service.

The online sales order system is a bit limited. Specifically, it would not allow me to order CableCARDs online, and indeed forced me to order an HD STB (because I wanted the HD service package). This required me to make a telephone call to fix the order (which kind-of defeats the point of having an online ordering system), removing the HD STB and adding the two CableCARDs I needed. In subsequent communications, and in the online order review page, what was actually ordered was never accurate, either showing the canceled HD STB, not showing CableCARDs, or not showing that _two_ CableCARDs were ordered. (The records on Verizon's side were accurate, the two times I called in to check.)

The customer service folks are reasonably helpful, once you get in touch with them (at least with regard to checking up on the installation order), but getting in touch with them is extremely problematic. On three separate occasions, both the business office telephone number and the FiOS customer service telephone number forwarded me to the "Our office is closed; please call back on the next business day" message, during Verizon business hours. Also, they sent the email asking me to confirm the order and installation appointment, or to call in to address problems, at 5:20AM on a company holiday, with my installation appointment scheduled for a time before their business office was supposed to be open again. Essentially, they said, "Call us before XXX," but they were not in their offices before XXX. A call left on the customer advocate's voice mail was not returned until after my installation was more than 3/4 completed.

All my initial concerns about placement of the router were unfounded. The installer put the router exactly where I wanted it, in my loft, and my new HSI service was up and running. I was able to just plug in my secondary router from my Comcast configuration, after simply reconfiguring the DHCP server on the FiOS router to assign only a limited set of IPs (leaving the rest for static IPs for my secondary router and the other devices in my LAN). The router software is easier to use than I thought it would be, and I even managed to out-smart myself resulting in big problems getting my port forwarding working like it had been with Comcast, but that was mostly because I did a bunch of things that looked similar to what I did with my primary router with Comcast, which are simply not necessary with Verizon's router. It's all working now.

I did have a hard time getting Verizon's router to automatically assign certain IPs to certain devices (by MAC address), like I had done with my old primary router. I'm not even sure that there is a way to do it. In the end, I went to each device in turn, that allowed me to do so, and told them not to use DHCP, and just set their static IPs manually. However, I do have one device (my printer) which requires DHCP, and yet I need to be able to refer to it reliably by IP address (in the printer driver config). I think this is mostly HP's fault, though, for not providing an obvious way to have it assert a specific IP address, relying on the router to always assign it the same one.

I haven't noted a really significant improvement in speed, though. I went from Comcast's 15/5 service to FiOS' 20/15 service, and it is only a marginal improvement as far as I can tell (even after running FiOS' optimizer). That was the main advantage we were hoping to capitalize on, so that's a little disappointing.

Telephone service, itself, was pretty-much unaffected. However, the installer screwed up. He disconnected the alarm system without paying attention to how it was wired up. When he reconnected it, he didn't put it back the way it was, and within an hour it started going off, and reporting a failure-to-communicate error. It also would fail to report the alarm if the trespasser simply picked up the telephone. The installer had no idea what he had done wrong, despite the alarm company trying to explain it to him. (The way alarm systems work, when configured properly, is that the telephone line goes through the alarm system, so that when the alarm is tripped, the system can take over the telephone line and make the call. What the installer did was bypass the alarm system. Instead of being wired A -> B -> C​he wired itA -> C
B -> C​The alarm company came out and fixed the error -- $165 later. I just heard from the Verizon foreman who agreed to reimburse me for the bill.

I think we're supposed to have voice mail, but I haven't set it up. (I actually don't know how -- the installer gave me a welcome package I'll have to read through.) Our existing Ring-Mate service, though, came through just fine. We're happy about that.

Finally, television: Right off the bat, I lose something: My TiVo S1, which I've been using happily, just like an old VCR, for about 10 years, is not compatible with FiOS in any way, shape, or form. I simply have to take it out of service. My TiVo S2 used to be able to record directly from the cable, using its own tuner. However, in October, Comcast severely limited the number of channels that my TiVo S2 could access (which, incidentally, was actually what changed the Comcast versus FiOS decision from "slightly in Comcast's favor" to "slightly in FiOS' favor"). With FiOS, my TiVo S2, just like my TiVo S1, cannot access any channels from the cable directly, but it can control a FiOS DTA via IR remotes. Given how much trouble I had trying to get the IR remotes to work five years ago, when I tried this with an old Comcast STB, I'm pretty impressed with how successful the TiVo S2 seems to be, using the FiOS DTA as its source for cable. And, of course, we get hundreds of channels now, available to us this way, whereas even at its best, our TiVo S2 could only get 50 or 60 channels from Comcast.

The installer did bring two CableCARDs, which is what my TiVo S3 needs. (It won't work as a dual-tuner DVR with one CableCARD, even if it is a M-card.) There was some problem with one of the CableCARDs, but he resolved it with his little laptop and a quick phone call, before I even realized there was a problem. (I was inserting the first CableCARD into the TiVo S3, and waiting for the TiVo to digest it.) In remarkably little time, the CableCARDs were installed and properly authorized, and I had all the channels I was paying for. Picture quality and signal reliability seem to be very good, though not really better than Comcast -- however, note that I have had great quality and reliability with Comcast in this regard, for a couple of years. What will be a really good test, though, in terms of picture quality, would be A&E or TNT or even USA... if there is any PQ advantage to FiOS, I should see it on those channels. Our first chance to check will be this weekend, when we'll probably watch an episode of White Collar recorded off Comcast and one recorded off FiOS, back-to-back.

A note about the TiVo S3, though this has nothing to do with FiOS specifically. I was pleasantly surprised to see it match up all my Season Passes with the new channel number. I didn't like the idea of having to recreate all 50 Season Passes!

I'm not a big fan of the billions and billions of HD channels. Most of the HD channels that FiOS and DirecTV have had for a while, that Comcast is only just now starting to provide, are utter crap, and hold very little interest for my wife or I. Having said that, we will appreciate WGN America HD, if it provided more reliable access to Legend of the Seeker in HD. (Our local station that shows Legend of the Seeker tends to move it around without updating their program guide data!) The only other channel that FiOS offers that Comcast does not, that has captured my wife's interest, at least, is Veria, though that's not in HD. However, I think there might be others, again SD channels -- not HD, that may capture our attention, and accessible, now, to our TiVo S2. That'll be a plus.

We do have a three month trial for HBO and Cinemax, and it really shows where a lot of the bandwidth is going: 25 HD channels, and even more SD channels, devoted just to those two premiums... I won't count right now, but I bet there over 50 HD channels, and an even larger number of SD channels, which are either premium or on the Sports tier. When we cancel HBO and Cinemax, the advantage of FiOS TV will be seriously undercut.


----------



## dbenrosen

bicker said:


> Finally, television: Right off the bat, I lose something: My TiVo S1, which I've been using happily, just like an old VCR, for about 10 years, is not compatible with FiOS in any way, shape, or form.


I have my S1 working happily with Fios. I have one of the mini STBs (the little black box with no display for $3.99/mo) and my S1 controls it using the IR blasters. It works GREAT. I use it to record the kids shows. It gets all of the stations I subscribe to (not the HD, but the S1 is SD only anyway) without the extra features of a full STB (TV Guide, VOD, etc.). It is PERFECT for use in this manner.

I just didn't want someone reading your post to think the S1 is not compatible with Fios. If I understand your post correctly, you were using the S1 without a subscription and were programming by time/channel.


----------



## pilotbob

@biker:

Good report just a few things.

When did you test the FIoS? I expect that you will see less degradation during busy hours compared to Comcast where you shared fiber bandwidth with everyone else on the same node.

I also have an HP printer (photosmart). The setup software doesn't have a way to set a static IP... but, when I went through the menus on the HP it self there was a way to change it from DHCP to a static IP.

BOb


----------



## bicker

dbenrosen said:


> I have my S1 working happily with Fios. I have one of the mini STBs (the little black box with no display for $3.99/mo) and my S1 controls it using the IR blasters. It works GREAT. I use it to record the kids shows. It gets all of the stations I subscribe to (not the HD, but the S1 is SD only anyway) without the extra features of a full STB (TV Guide, VOD, etc.). It is PERFECT for use in this manner.
> 
> I just didn't want someone reading your post to think the S1 is not compatible with Fios. If I understand your post correctly, you were using the S1 without a subscription and were programming by time/channel.


Yes, thanks for the clarification.... I don't have a valid subscription. It is great to know that, with a valid subscription, the S1 would be able to drive the DTA.


----------



## bicker

pilotbob said:


> I also have an HP printer (photosmart). The setup software doesn't have a way to set a static IP... but, when I went through the menus on the HP it self there was a way to change it from DHCP to a static IP.


I'll check into it, but that is indeed where I looked.


----------



## bkdtv

bicker,

The optimizer should be unnecessary on Vista (latest SP) and Windows 7.

If you decide to stick with FiOS, you might keep your eye out for a Westell 9100EM (MoCA router) at a good price. They are available periodically on ebay for $30-$35. That MoCA router offers somewhat better performance, especially if you do anything involving hundreds or thousands of simultaneous connections. It also handles static IP connections better than some (all?) of the Actiontecs.

Depending on the Actiontec model you received, you may be able to re-locate that in a different room (ex: near a TiVo) to provide a 100Mbps ethernet connection from a new MoCA router in your loft.


----------



## NotVeryWitty

pilotbob said:


> I also have an HP printer (photosmart). The setup software doesn't have a way to set a static IP... but, when I went through the menus on the HP it self there was a way to change it from DHCP to a static IP.


Most HP printers have a telnet interface where you can set things like a static IP address -- that's how I set mine up. Google "hp printer telnet static ip".


----------



## bicker

I was issued a Westell 9100 by FiOS.


----------



## rocko

bicker said:


> I was issued a Westell 9100 by FiOS.


Lucky dog ...


----------



## triger716

I just lost all encrypted channels on my Tivo HD. It has been working fine since I had FIOS installed two weeks ago, but now I only get local channels. All other channels are just black. No messages or anything.

I rebooted the TIVO and removed and reinserted the CableCard which didn't resolve the issue. I did not loose any channels on my HD-STB.

Any ideas? Or am I going to have to call Verizon to try to re-pair / reactivate the CableCard?


----------



## rocko

NotVeryWitty said:


> Most HP printers have a telnet interface where you can set things like a static IP address -- that's how I set mine up. Google "hp printer telnet static ip".





triger716 said:


> I just lost all encrypted channels on my Tivo HD. It has been working fine since I had FIOS installed two weeks ago, but now I only get local channels. All other channels are just black. No messages or anything.
> 
> I rebooted the TIVO and removed and reinserted the CableCard which didn't resolve the issue. I did not loose any channels on my HD-STB.
> 
> Any ideas? Or am I going to have to call Verizon to try to re-pair / reactivate the CableCard?


Yes. A call to the Fiber Solutions Center would be in order.

http://www22.verizon.com/ResidentialHelp/FiOSTV/General+Support/Top+Questions/QuestionsOne/98796.htm


----------



## mjryder

Verizon tech just left the house at 7:30pm. 

Here's the story: Last night, all was well with my Series 3 TiVO HD with 1 dual-tune CableCARD. This morning all I had were SD & HD local channels. 

They tried re-provisioning it during 3 separate phone support sessions, and finally sent someone out with a new card. After a couple of hours, he left. Still no solution. There was an update (IMG 1.7?) rolled out to STB and CableCARDs last night here in Western New York, from what the tech told me. 

Seems too coincidental that this problem happens just after that... The TiVO with the CableCARD was flawless since my install in October. Anyone else with this problem?


----------



## triger716

mjryder said:


> Verizon tech just left the house at 7:30pm.
> 
> Here's the story: Last night, all was well with my Series 3 TiVO HD with 1 dual-tune CableCARD. This morning all I had were SD & HD local channels.
> 
> They tried re-provisioning it during 3 separate phone support sessions, and finally sent someone out with a new card. After a couple of hours, he left. Still no solution. There was an update (IMG 1.7?) rolled out to STB and CableCARDs last night here in Western New York, from what the tech told me.
> 
> Seems too coincidental that this problem happens just after that... The TiVO with the CableCARD was flawless since my install in October. Anyone else with this problem?


Hmm I'm in WNY too... Coincidence I think not.

I've been out most of the day so I haven't had a chance to do anything with it yet but I will call Verizon in the morning to see what they say.

Also I never thought about the cable card getting an update but I guess they must in order to keep up with the changes Verizon makes to their system.


----------



## mjryder

Not to get too confident about the update theory (I'm not) but a few more people would strengthen our case. I had one more go with telephone support. They're trying, but getting closer and closer to just blaming the TiVO unit itself. Good luck. I'll post any results back in this thread.


----------



## mjryder

Just to be specific, I get channels in SD and HD until I hit USA/USAHD, which is 50(SD) and 550(HD)... 50, 550 and onward, nothing but blank gray screens.

My service is in Tonawanda.


----------



## triger716

mjryder said:


> Just to be specific, I get channels in SD and HD until I hit USA/USAHD, which is 50(SD) and 550(HD)... 50, 550 and onward, nothing but blank gray screens.
> 
> My service is in Tonawanda.


Exactly the same except mine are black and not gray. (I assume that's because I have the side masks set to black and not gray.)

I'm in Orchard Park.


----------



## rocko

triger716 said:


> Exactly the same except mine are black and not gray. (I assume that's because I have the side masks set to black and not gray.)
> 
> I'm in Orchard Park.


Black/grey is, indeed, based on sidebar color. Is USA still hosed? Just asking since they are OK here in Jersey.


----------



## triger716

rocko said:


> Black/grey is, indeed, based on sidebar color. Is USA still hosed? Just asking since they are OK here in Jersey.


Yes, everything higher than 50/550 is still hosed.


----------



## rocko

triger716 said:


> Yes, everything higher than 50/550 is still hosed.


If Verizon isn't helping or acknowledging the problem maybe you should start a thread to see if it's a regional thing. Didn't someone else from your area complain about the same thing ?


----------



## mjryder

So here's the deal: Today the tech walked in very skeptical of his ability to help me because I was another in a string of CableCARD customers who went dead Thurs that he has tried and failed to restore service to. He services the northtowns, so he is most likely referring to some other customers besides those represented so far in this thread. We waited the requisite 20mins for the activation to take hold on the CableCARD I have in my TiVO now. No luck. He says that his support people have decided that he should aggregate his other CableCARD related calls onto this service ticket. At least there seems to be an acknowledgement that some common event happened to knock our CableCARDS out. 

He also said that the recent brand new installs have had STBs activate properly, but the CableCARDS at those startups were not authorizing. Since customers have 15 days to decide whether to bail on the contract, I'd assume they'll be pushing very hard to get to the bottom of this.


----------



## rf75

Well I just checked and get the same thing, no channels above 50/550. I have a TivoHD on FiOS and have had zero problems with it since install almost a year ago. Going to call now ... oh, I'm in Hamburg.


----------



## innocentfreak

still fine in Tampa.


----------



## richsadams

All clear here as well.


----------



## rf75

rf75 said:


> Well I just checked and get the same thing, no channels above 50/550. I have a TivoHD on FiOS and have had zero problems with it since install almost a year ago. Going to call now ... oh, I'm in Hamburg.


Spent about 45 mins on the phone with FiOS tech, he tried sending a command to the Cablecard and then had me power cycle the Tivo, twice, reseated the coax, but to no avail. Opened an urgent ticket with FiOS video; I told him about the other reports on this board and he checked with their db and apparently had no record of a problem. Suggested I check with Tivo too. Seriously doubt Tivo has anything to do with it since some channels work fine. Didn't look at all of them (but Animal Planet SD and HD come in ...). All locals work fine. Hope this doesn't take a zillion trips around the tech support loop, don't have time right now!

I got the ticket number, if you think it would help for you to reference it in your conversations with FiOS I will send it to you (but I won't post it here).


----------



## bicker

All is well in MA.


----------



## triger716

It seems like a pretty localized issue to the Western NY area. From what I've read there is also an issue with cablecards in people's HTPC's as well so it is not just a Tivo issue.

Hopefully they find the issue soon as while I have a HD-STB as backup, I miss my Tivo.


----------



## SC0TLANDF0REVER

So in the main CC thread it says that I need two MCards for a S3.
Is this also true for FiOS? The install guy is here now, so I might have to rent their box (to record second show) until I can get a 2nd card if needed.


----------



## bicker

The TiVo S3, specifically, treats all CableCARDs as single-stream, even if they're M-Cards.


----------



## SC0TLANDF0REVER

bicker said:


> The TiVo S3, specifically, treats all CableCARDs as single-stream, even if they're M-Cards.


Thanks! He called someone to see if they can bring another MCard... crossing fingers


----------



## SC0TLANDF0REVER

NM - found the answer.


----------



## mjryder

Tech just called and said they're successfully authorizing the CableCARDs. Wants me to check periodically throughout the next hour or so.


----------



## tstrade

mjryder said:


> Tech just called and said they're successfully authorizing the CableCARDs. Wants me to check periodically throughout the next hour or so.


I'm in OP and have 4 Tivos down since Friday night. Same story - tech came out to the house, replaced all 4 MCards, spent 4+ hours here...all to no avail. I've called a couple of times today and they told me a tech is going to the CO with a TV that takes Cablecards tomorrow at 1PM. So I hope your information is more correct than mine!!!!!!


----------



## SereneRoc

mjryder said:


> Tech just called and said they're successfully authorizing the CableCARDs. Wants me to check periodically throughout the next hour or so.


That's great! I just had Verizon install my CableCards on Saturday, spent eight hours trying to help the Verizon tech figure out why so many channels were missing and ended up getting frustrated with Fios. This morning they did tell me that they hoped to get everything sorted out today. It would be great if you could let us know if/when you get full service back!


----------



## rf75

tstrade said:


> I'm in OP and have 4 Tivos down since Friday night. Same story - tech came out to the house, replaced all 4 MCards, spent 4+ hours here...all to no avail. I've called a couple of times today and they told me a tech is going to the CO with a TV that takes Cablecards tomorrow at 1PM. So I hope your information is more correct than mine!!!!!!


Tomorrow?!? Let's see that puts us down Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and maybe Monday, aka the better part of a week. Now if was a cynic I'd say they are treating Cablecard customers as 2nd class citizens. If all the FiOSTV DVRs were down would the same care-less attitude prevail? Hmm. Thank grid I have ReplayTVs still hooked to STBs ...


----------



## mjryder

No change yet... Will post as soon as something changes.


----------



## mjryder

tstrade said:


> I'm in OP and have 4 Tivos down since Friday night. Same story - tech came out to the house, replaced all 4 MCards, spent 4+ hours here...all to no avail. I've called a couple of times today and they told me a tech is going to the CO with a TV that takes Cablecards tomorrow at 1PM. So I hope your information is more correct than mine!!!!!!


Me too!


----------



## SC0TLANDF0REVER

So between me not getting enough sleep last night, and the FiOS guy leaving for another appt - no joy. CCs are not working. Any ideas? Is there a FiOS number I can call that specializes in troubleshooting?

Found it:
http://www22.verizon.com/ResidentialHelp/FiOSTV/General+Support/Top+Questions/QuestionsOne/98796.htm
Calling now


----------



## tstrade

I heard from a very nice level 2 guy that called me and he said that he and another guy are raising he|| to get visibility to this thing. He told me it was absolutely an issue on their end. Specifically, an IP issue. The cards are not sending back a message an ack of some sort so the content never gets permission to be sent. This may be why we see black screens and it looks to the Tivo as though it is tuning to a valid station. If the cards weren't activated, we wouldn't even see local channels (clear QAM) and would be more likely to see the Tivo warnings to "contact your cable company" to subscribe to the channel you are trying to tune to.

So we wait. Verizon sure seems to hate Tivo customers. At least the level 2 guy was very nice and appreciative of what we are going through. He seemed like a knowledgeable and nice guy so I have high hopes that he'll get the visibility he needs to get things fixed by tomorrow. He even knew the current Tivo firmware version...which told he that he actually had a clue what he was talking about.


----------



## SC0TLANDF0REVER

So is this a Verizon Service area-wide issue or just the NE?


----------



## tstrade

SC0TLANDF0REVER said:


> So is this a Verizon Service area-wide issue or just the NE?


Sounds like it is just in WNY at the moment.


----------



## SC0TLANDF0REVER

Just got off the phone w/ Fiber Solutions @ 800-426-9504 (transferred from the dept @ the link above).
He checked the CCs and had me reboot, did a 'test channels' and I was able to see regular, premium and HD channels.
I'm currently doing the antenna scan.

All is good.


----------



## SC0TLANDF0REVER

tstrade said:


> Sounds like it is just in WNY at the moment.


It's be great if they could do a 'roll back' to the previous version of firmware for those affected.


----------



## tstrade

SC0TLANDF0REVER said:


> Just got off the phone w/ Fiber Solutions @ 800-426-9504 (transferred from the dept @ the link above).
> He checked the CCs and had me reboot, did a 'test channels' and I was able to see regular, premium and HD channels.
> I'm currently doing the antenna scan.
> 
> All is good.


So much for just WNY - you're in VA? I wonder if your issue was different than ours? Sounds encouraging though....maybe I'll call the FSC again.


----------



## triger716

tstrade said:


> So much for just WNY - you're in VA? I wonder if your issue was different than ours? Sounds encouraging though....maybe I'll call the FSC again.


Sounds like SC0TLANDF0REVER's issue was more likely he had a tech that didn't know what how to properly set up the Cablecard. How many of us heard "Boy I've never done a Tivo before" when the tech first walked through the door for the install.

I'm not sure what it means (or if it's true) but someone named "bufftek" posted the following over at DSLreports


> the problem in buffalo is they are trying to run 2 condition access systems there. SA and motorola and its not working properly.


----------



## tstrade

triger716 said:


> I'm not sure what it means (or if it's true) but someone named "bufftek" posted the following over at DSLreports


That is consistent with what I heard too. WNY will be one of the test areas for new Cisco/SA equipment and it sounds like Verizon could use a refresher course in change management. How in the world the SA gear could ever be exposed to live/production customers without some semblance of testing and warnings to customer support about possible calls is beyond me.


----------



## rocko

tstrade said:


> So much for just WNY - you're in VA? I wonder if your issue was different than ours? Sounds encouraging though....maybe I'll call the FSC again.


I'm sure his/her issue was not related. It sounds like that was a new install. I know that my tech had to call in to pair the cards even after doing the laptop activation thing.


----------



## SereneRoc

So, any updates on the channel outages in WNY? I called today to see what's up and was emphatically told that it's just my CableCards at issue. They're sending a guy out with "lots of CableCards" on Thursday. Guess I'm in for another long session with Verizon. I'm already fed up and I haven't even been a Fios customer for a week!


----------



## mjryder

My service is still out.


----------



## tstrade

mjryder said:


> My service is still out.


Same here. Heard from Tier 2 guy today and he was on a conf-call with Motorola trying to sort things out. But no news after that and I'm still out of commission as well.


----------



## tstrade

SereneRoc said:


> So, any updates on the channel outages in WNY? I called today to see what's up and was emphatically told that it's just my CableCards at issue. They're sending a guy out with "lots of CableCards" on Thursday. Guess I'm in for another long session with Verizon. I'm already fed up and I haven't even been a Fios customer for a week!


Rolling a truck with more CableCARDs is costly and a waste of their time and yours. Tier 2 knows full well what happened and they are trying to figure out why they can no longer get return IP messages from the CableCARDs since someone made changes to accommodate this SA stuff mentioned above. So this is not really a CableCARD issue per se but rather a conditional access system issue (as mentioned above) that needs to be resolved by the network guys. A field tech will just end up being as frustrated as the first field tech they dispatched.


----------



## SereneRoc

SO, I just got off the phone with Verizon. After spending about three hours answering the tech's phone calls and switching back and forth between channels, I temporarily got service to my missing channels. I helped isolate the problem (his words, not mine) and they should be fixing everyone's cards/the network this evening. He told me that I should have service restored sometime tomorrow morning. Hope this helps!


----------



## tstrade

SereneRoc said:


> SO, I just got off the phone with Verizon. After spending about three hours answering the tech's phone calls and switching back and forth between channels, I temporarily got service to my missing channels. I helped isolate the problem (his words, not mine) and they should be fixing everyone's cards/the network this evening. He told me that I should have service restored sometime tomorrow morning. Hope this helps!


Yup, they are undoing what they did last Friday and they are pretty confident that it will restore our service. The channels you were able to receive earlier today was likely a few channels they put in the clear temporarily (to select CableCARDs) to see if Motorola encryption was in fact the issue. It was.

I have to say, I'm thoroughly impressed with the Verizon Tier 2 guys - class acts and definitely some very good engineers there. We'll see if they can bring us back to life in the wee hours of the night tonight.


----------



## tstrade

We're back on-line! Just going through all of my channels in my programming package on a couple of my Tivos, but so far, it does seem that we're back in business in WNY.

Whew...just in time for a likely snow day tomorrow for the kids.


----------



## richsadams

tstrade said:


> We're back on-line! Just going through all of my channels in my programming package on a couple of my Tivos, but so far, it does seem that we're back in business in WNY.


Excellent news! Thanks very much for your patience and keeping us posted. Hopefully VZ learned whatever lesson(s) that came out of this experience so that they won't replicate the issue elsewhere. Enjoy!


----------



## mjryder

All fixed! Man, did I miss my TiVO...


----------



## MookieDoug

bkdtv said:


> The Verizon CSR was probably told that during their training course 18-24 months ago. That information is out of date.
> 
> You only need to order one CableCard. You'll get a M-CARD.
> 
> The installer should call you 30-40 minutes prior to their arrival and ask you about the equipment. Tell them you have a TivoHD that requires one M-CARD.


So FIOS showed up last Friday to install a cable card in my new Tivo HD XL unit. The tech showed up, said, "what kind of card do you need?" I said, "I need 1-M card." He said, "Okay. I wasn't sure, so I brought both kinds." So apparently, up here in MA, they still have both M and S-cards. (I'm assuming they have leftover S-cards from years gone by, but still bring them just in case. Not a bad idea.)

When the tech saw the Tivo, he goes, "I've never done a cable card install on a Tivo before." I said, "It's easy...when we did the one upstairs in March it only took 20 minutes or so." He then handed me the card and said, "Okay, sounds like you know what you're doing." So I installed the card myself, he called Fios, gave the card and Host ID #'s, 5 minutes later I was up and running. If we weren't talking about the Patriots for so long, he would have been gone in less than 10 minutes.

I still have no clue why Verizon won't simply hand out the cards instead of wasting Tech's times to do truck rolls when the process seems quite straight-forward and simple. I haven't rec'd an updated bill yet, so no idea if they truly will charge me the $79 truck roll or not. Crossed fingers they won't.


----------



## joe1515

Is any one else not receiving any signal for HGTV and the food Network? I have been having this issue since yesterday. Everything else is working fine. 

I have fios in New York, Long Island.

Joe


----------



## rocko

joe1515 said:


> Is any one else not receiving any signal for HGTV and the food Network? I have been having this issue since yesterday. Everything else is working fine.
> 
> I have fios in New York, Long Island.
> 
> Joe


FoodHD (664) and HGTVHD (665) are both fine in Bergen County (NJ).


----------



## joe1515

rocko said:


> FoodHD (664) and HGTVHD (665) are both fine in Bergen County (NJ).


They just started working again this afternoon.

Joe


----------



## jimtedjeske

Unbelievable!! I just had the same problem of losing all channels above 50 here in the Pittsburgh area. I have already had a few calls with Verizon so I am already at a high degree of frustration on this but when I read the thread I thought I could get Verizon in Pittsburgh to talk to Verizon in New York to identify the problem and the solution. Apparently, they don't or won't talk to each other, they don't have the number for NY and there is no way to communicate. It almost makes me nostalgic for Comcast.


----------



## dcollens

Well I did make the plunge over the holidays. Installation went extremely well. There were a couple of problems, but most were resolved quite quickly.

Everything is up and working well with the exception of the published speeds. I need to check things out and see if there are any tweaks that I need to do, although the tech said that with Window 7 there should be no need.

The one problem that I did encounter was adding my wife as a sub account. Her last name has the letters "NOC" in it and VZ is telling me that there is no way to get around the rule that that is not allowed in any of their account/email names. This is the first provider that I have encountered with such arcane naming rules. Not like her name is a swear word.

Otherwise quite happy with the service to date.

dc


----------



## doopstr

Hi, is Verizon 100&#37; M cards on new cablecard installations or do I need to request that? I'm in central NJ.


----------



## wmcbrine

It should be all M cards now, yes. If you try to specifically request them, you'll probably only end up confusing the CSR. They have a hard enough time with the word "CableCard".


----------



## MookieDoug

doopstr said:


> Hi, is Verizon 100% M cards on new cablecard installations or do I need to request that? I'm in central NJ.


I had one installed last month, the tech said they had both S and M cards, asked which I wanted. I'm assuming they have either old inventory of S cards, or are keeping the ones that folks are switching out.


----------



## doopstr

Well that was fast. I put the order in yesterday, tech showed up this AM with an M card. It worked on the first shot, imagine that.

I do agree with the suggestion to not confuse a CSR and keep them on script.


----------



## hrr57

Scotland,

I just received a Tivo S3 as a Xmas gift, I called FIOS Tech Service and the lady told me that the cable cards will not work with FIOS...after reading this thread I figured the FIOS people don't know what I'm talking about. Do you mind sharing how you were able to get the M cards and the installation. Reason I'm asking is that I live Ashburn, VA, and more than likely will be dealing with the same Verizon people.


----------



## rocko

hrr57 said:


> Scotland,
> 
> I just received a Tivo S3 as a Xmas gift, I called FIOS Tech Service and the lady told me that the cable cards will not work with FIOS...after reading this thread I figured the FIOS people don't know what I'm talking about. Do you mind sharing how you were able to get the M cards and the installation. Reason I'm asking is that I live Ashburn, VA, and more than likely will be dealing with the same Verizon people.


Obviously, I'm not Scotland, but ...

Verizon doesn't know so take anything they say with a grain of salt. If you have the original S3 (the one with the CableCARD slots in the back) you need 2 cards, regardless of S or M. So order 2 cards. End of discussion.


----------



## wesbc

Hi,

I'm looking to possibly order verizon fios as a new customer. On the website ordering system, I only see the following options. 

Standard Def Set Top Box
Digital Adapter
High Def Home Media DVR
High Def DVR
High Def Set top box.

Since they are offering their Media DVR for free 3month, thought I might try that, but at the sametime would like to order the cablecard for my soon to be order Tivo HD. So my question is what option do I select. Digital Adapter? From what I read that is just a set top box with no function. Trying to elimate extra charge and the possiblity of them screwing up my bills.

Thanks


----------



## bkdtv

wesbc said:


> Since they are offering their Media DVR for free 3month, thought I might try that, but at the sametime would like to order the cablecard for my soon to be order Tivo HD. So my question is what option do I select. Digital Adapter?


The digital adapter is not a CableCard. It's a set-top box for SDTVs without a guide or VOD.

You have to call to order a CableCard.


----------



## bicker

It doesn't matter what you select -- what you want isn't listed, so no matter what you're going to have to call in, after you submit your order, and change your order to reflect what you actually want.

That's what I did. It worked out for me. I don't remember what I actually selected -- probably the DTA -- but whatever it was, I just called in afterward and fixed it.


----------



## Cor

If you need to see a Cable Card front and back look on my webpage.
http://www.cjansen.net/Cor/Tivo/Tivo1.htm
The MAC and Serial are altered to avoid problems for myself.


----------



## wesbc

Thanks for the quick replies. Just trying to see if I can avoid a call, but looks like not.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

bicker said:


> It doesn't matter what you select -- what you want isn't listed, so no matter what you're going to have to call in, after you submit your order, and change your order to reflect what you actually want.


About 1 or 2 years ago, in the bowels of hell that is the Verizon web site, I *did* find a way to order CableCARDs on the web in conjunction with an initial order. But I didn't at the time, and don't know if I could find the form again. IIRC you had to go through multiple pages of pretending to order service when you came to a screen that gave you that option. But maybe they removed it.


----------



## NotVeryWitty

Phantom Gremlin said:


> About 1 or 2 years ago, in the bowels of hell that is the Verizon web site, I *did* find a way to order CableCARDs on the web in conjunction with an initial order. But I didn't at the time, and don't know if I could find the form again. IIRC you had to go through multiple pages of pretending to order service when you came to a screen that gave you that option.


I think once you get deep inside the cave, you have to type "xyzzy".


----------



## rocko

NotVeryWitty said:


> I think once you get deep inside the cave, you have to type "xyzzy".


Nothing happened.


----------



## NotVeryWitty

rocko said:


> Nothing happened.


----------



## innocentfreak

Phantom Gremlin said:


> About 1 or 2 years ago, in the bowels of hell that is the Verizon web site, I *did* find a way to order CableCARDs on the web in conjunction with an initial order. But I didn't at the time, and don't know if I could find the form again. IIRC you had to go through multiple pages of pretending to order service when you came to a screen that gave you that option. But maybe they removed it.


I had sent a message to the rep on twitter and he said they are working on a self install option.



> we are working on a self install process - order, ship, install, provision - all need to be supported electronically


----------



## metamorphasis

Hi..... I am new to all of this and am in the process of ordering Fios and looking into which is the best way to utilize a Tivo. I have had a free DVR from Direct TV and don't get the concept of renting one from VERIZON for 16.99 monthly! I don't need a DVR on my second tv downstairs, do I have to rent their {Fios} set top box or is there another option? I am assuming I cant use the Direct TV DVR equipment with Fios? What cable cards would I have to order to make this transition work? I appreciate everybody's help!


----------



## bicker

DirecTV equipment indeed will not work with FiOS. FiOS does charge for every piece of equipment you rent from them here, and you cannot receive any of their services without either a set-top box rented from them, a DVR rented from them, or a CableCARD rented from them -- except for the local over-the-air broadcast channels, which I've read can be tuned in using a clear QAM tuner (but, of course, without any program guide data in your TiVo S3/HD).

So, for your first television, where you want a DVR, the TiVo HD is a great option. You'll just need to rent a CableCARD from FiOS to make it work well.

For your second television, where you don't want a DVR, you have very few choices: Here, FiOS offers a digital adapter (essentially a set-top box without a program guide) for a little less than they charge to rent a set-top box.


----------



## andrewket

I've lost all of my HBO channels (400-) on all three of my Tivos (M-cards). Channel 899 (HDHBO) still works.

Based on this thread it looked like the missing channel issues had been fixed, but apparently that is not the case. A reboot/rescan didn't fix the issue.

Anyone else in Metro DC (northern VA) that can check to see if they are seeing the same thing? 

Andrew


----------



## JWThiers

is it fios?


----------



## bkdtv

Do you receive all of the HBO channels in the 800-900 range?


----------



## rage777

metamorphasis said:


> Hi..... I am new to all of this and am in the process of ordering Fios and looking into which is the best way to utilize a Tivo. I have had a free DVR from Direct TV and don't get the concept of renting one from VERIZON for 16.99 monthly! I don't need a DVR on my second tv downstairs, do I have to rent their {Fios} set top box or is there another option? I am assuming I cant use the Direct TV DVR equipment with Fios? What cable cards would I have to order to make this transition work? I appreciate everybody's help!


Are you saying you want to get a Tivo or do you already have a Tivo? If you don't need HD, then the SD STB is a lot cheaper then the HD STB. If you don't need HD, then I would suggest the digital adapter that is about $6 a month. If you get an HD Tivo, then you can get a single M card that is also $5 or $6 a month. If you like to order pay per view or on demand stuff, then I think you need a STB. If you have a series 2 Tivo already, then you can use a digital adapter with the Tivo.


----------



## dbenrosen

rage777 said:


> Are you saying you want to get a Tivo or do you already have a Tivo? If you don't need HD, then the SD STB is a lot cheaper then the HD STB. If you don't need HD, then I would suggest the digital adapter that is about $6 a month. If you get an HD Tivo, then you can get a single M card that is also $5 or $6 a month. If you like to order pay per view or on demand stuff, then I think you need a STB. If you have a series 2 Tivo already, then you can use a digital adapter with the Tivo.


In my neck of the woods (Northern NJ), the digital adapter is $3.99/month. I use it with my Series 1 TiVo since I don't need any of the bells and whistles of a full STB. The STBs (HD or SD) are $5.99/month. Upgrading the HD STB to an HD DVR adds an additional $9 or $10/month (total is $15.99-$16.99/month).

Unless you want to use VoD with the STB, if you are using an older TiVo (Series 1 or 2) to control a decoding box, the digital adapter is all you need.


----------



## andrewket

JWThiers said:


> is it fios?


Yeah, sorry, FIOS. Now they are coming up but they are very pixelated. 899 (HD HBO) is fine.

A


----------



## Rosenkavalier

MSNBC HD is being added nationally to FIOS TV, and (I think) should be in all markets as I type this (Thursday afternoon, Feb. 11). It is on Channel 603 - details are here: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r23763917-MSNBC-HD-coming-soon.

I was able to see the channel by going directly to 603 with the remote, and when I went to the Channel List I could select 603/MSNBCHD as a 'Channel I Receive'. I then forced a service call/download, but after the download/processing there was still no guide data from TiVo showing up. So right now I can watch live or schedule a manual recording by date/time without any program data to back it up.

This being added to complete the all-HD NBC suite of channels for the Olympics.


----------



## richsadams

Thanks for the heads-up on FIOS 603 MSNBC HD. It looks great here. I did the same thing...added it to my channel lineup and then forced a connection. No info yet. The guide just says "To be announced". It'll be good to see things in HD on this channel...finally!


----------



## wmcbrine

Also ION HD is being added -- market-by-market (it's a local broadcast affiliate), but they're doing them all at pretty much the same time. No guide data for that yet, either, of course.


----------



## richsadams

wmcbrine said:


> Also ION HD is being added -- market-by-market (it's a local broadcast affiliate), but they're doing them all at pretty much the same time. No guide data for that yet, either, of course.


Cool. What channel? (I'm being lazy ).


----------



## wmcbrine

Since it's market-by-market, it will vary. It's whatever your current Ion channel is (somewhere in the locals), if you have one, plus 500. Mine is 513.


----------



## richsadams

wmcbrine said:


> Since it's market-by-market, it will vary. It's whatever your current Ion channel is (somewhere in the locals), if you have one, plus 500. Mine is 513.


Thanks for that...513 is a local channel (not ION) so I'll have to do a little research. No rest for the wicked.


----------



## rocko

richsadams said:


> Thanks for the heads-up on FIOS 603 MSNBC HD. It looks great here. I did the same thing...added it to my channel lineup and then forced a connection. No info yet. The guide just says "To be announced". It'll be good to see things in HD on this channel...finally!


FIOS had all the NBC-esque stations for the Summer Olympics in Bejing - it was great. But don't get too attached to MSNBC since it will be gone in 2 weeks.

Also, still no guide data ...


----------



## wmcbrine

No, MSNBC-HD is here to stay, as I understand it. And they didn't have it for the last Olympics. (They had some special channels just for the Olympics instead, though.) I don't think it existed then.


----------



## rocko

wmcbrine said:


> No, MSNBC-HD is here to stay, as I understand it. And they didn't have it for the last Olympics. (They had some special channels just for the Olympics instead, though.) I don't think it existed then.


I stand corrected 

MSNBC had an exclusive deal with Cablevision since forever, it seems. Apparently that deal is no more.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/verizon-fios-tv-adds-msnbc-hd-84114482.html


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Thanks for that...513 is a local channel (not ION) so I'll have to do a little research. No rest for the wicked.


Rich, it is 505 and still no guide data but you can select it!


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## rocko

MPSAN said:


> Rich, it is 505 and still no guide data but you can select it!


Not around here - 505 is the local FOX affiliate in NYC.


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## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Rich, it is 505 and still no guide data but you can select it!


Got it! I forced another connection and received guide data for 505 and 603. After connecting the loading took quite a while. Yesterday it got the info and loaded in less than a minute. Today it took about 40 minutes for the TiVo HD and about 30 minutes for the Series3. So it must have been indexing the new guide data. Plus there was a new channel added - 1768/RGTI which had nothing on and I've no idea what it is. By the guide data it looks like a Brazilian TV station. I Googled it and came up with nothing. 

Anyway, the guide data for MSNBC and ION is current now.


----------



## MPSAN

richsadams said:


> Got it! I forced another connection and received guide data for 505 and 603. After connecting the loading took quite a while. Yesterday it got the info and loaded in less than a minute. Today it took about 40 minutes for the TiVo HD and about 30 minutes for the Series3. So it must have been indexing the new guide data. Plus there was a new channel added - 1768/RGTI which had nothing on and I've no idea what it is. By the guide data it looks like a Brazilian TV station. I Googled it and came up with nothing.
> 
> Anyway, the guide data for MSNBC and ION is current now.


I keep getting extra stations as well. Not sure what any of them are! I can check 603. Perhaps my guide data updated but I have not had TV on today. Not sure if I care about ION.


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## MPSAN

rocko said:


> Not around here - 505 is the local FOX affiliate in NYC.


Rich and I are in the same area.


----------



## rocko

MPSAN said:


> I keep getting extra stations as well. Not sure what any of them are! I can check 603. Perhaps my guide data updated but I have not had TV on today. Not sure if I care about ION.


I had to go into Settings-Channels and check 603 to get it to show up ...


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## richsadams

MPSAN said:


> Not sure if I care about ION.


I took a quick look at the guide and there were a lot of paid programming shows and some other odd things that weren't of great interest. I think I may uncheck it from my channel list. Although the Family Feud marathon was really tempting. 



rocko said:


> I had to go into Settings-Channels and check 603 to get it to show up ...


Me too. :up:


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## V7Goose

rocko said:


> I had to go into Settings-Channels and check 603 to get it to show up ...


I had to go into Settings-Channels and UN-check it to STOP it from showing up!

Besides the fact that even having that channel on my TV gives me the willies, the weird thing to me is that you had to add the check mark yourself. Every time I get a message from TiVo that a channel lineup change has occurred, any added channels are automatically checked and I have to manually remove them. Are you guys saying that those new FiOS channels are NOT automatically checked for you after you get the lineup change message? 
Goose


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## renepaul

I have DirecTv and Fios is coming with CableCards on Monday. My HDTivo is coming today. TiVo says I should run guided setup at least a day or two before tech comes. How do I run guided setup if I don't have Fios yet. Is the guided setup just for updates? Also does guided setup need to be run before the tech installs the Cablecard with Fios. Form experience guided setup takes a few hours. Does the tech have to wait for the guided setup then install card or vice versa?


----------



## CrispyCritter

There is an option in guided setup for "getting cablecards later". You want to run it mainly to get the new software, but also to get correct channels for testing. You don't want the rep to wait for guided setup.


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## BigJimOutlaw

As you said, Guided Setup can take a while. That's why they tell you to run it in advance. After that, you should also force a couple of connections to get the latest software updates (about 2-3 times).

The 2nd or 3rd connection will have a distinctly longer download time. This will be an important software update that will help the Tivo work better with Fios. Once it's finished downloading, reboot the box to begin the software update.

Then you're (finally) all set for the tech to arrive.

This way, you and the tech won't have to wait around a long time to make sure the installation worked. You'll have the latest software and guide information ready to go when he gets there. It sounds like a lot of prep work, but it's worth it. It'll take about an hour or so, start to finish.


----------



## richsadams

renepaul said:


> I have DirecTv and Fios is coming with CableCards on Monday. My HDTivo is coming today. TiVo says I should run guided setup at least a day or two before tech comes. How do I run guided setup if I don't have Fios yet. Is the guided setup just for updates? Also does guided setup need to be run before the tech installs the Cablecard with Fios. Form experience guided setup takes a few hours. Does the tech have to wait for the guided setup then install card or vice versa?


In addition to the above advice, here's most everything you need to know:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=419994#A1

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=363797

BTW, you will be _very_ happy with FIOS...and occasionally amazed at the improvement in PQ over DTV. Welcome to the club and enjoy!


----------



## richsadams

BigJimOutlaw said:


> The 2nd or 3rd connection will have a distinctly longer download time.


There is actually only one update. The OP's TiVo will almost certainly have v9.4 and the update will go directly to v11.0d. Other house housekeeping activity will occur however.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

richsadams said:


> There is actually only one update. The OP's TiVo will almost certainly have v9.4 and the update will go directly to v11.0d. Other house housekeeping activity will occur however.


Yes, there's only 1 software package with several cumulative updates. I didn't mean to suggest there were piecemeal updates. Only that the Tivo will need to connect a few times until it's recieved.


----------



## richsadams

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Yes, there's only 1 software package with several cumulative updates. I didn't mean to suggest there were piecemeal updates. Only that the Tivo will need to connect a few times until it's recieved.


Got it. :up:


----------



## hoyty

I think I had read that FIOS doesn't pair the cablecards to a particular device, does anyone know if this is correct? I ask since I am curious if I get either a Series 4 or a Media Center tuner if I can just pull the card(s) from my Series 3 (org) and move them to another device?


----------



## bicker

The FiOS tech who installed me said as much.


----------



## richsadams

hoyty said:


> I think I had read that FIOS doesn't pair the cablecards to a particular device, does anyone know if this is correct? I ask since I am curious if I get either a Series 4 or a Media Center tuner if I can just pull the card(s) from my Series 3 (org) and move them to another device?


That is correct...although I can't verify if it works between devices, only TiVo's. I don't see why switching between devices would be any different though.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

richsadams said:


> That is correct...although I can't verify if it works between devices, only TiVo's. I don't see why switching between devices would be any different though.


It would be great if it worked between all TiVos. E.g. change hard drives or buy a TiVo premiere as a replacement --- move the CableCARD w/o needing a truck roll.


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## richsadams

Phantom Gremlin said:


> It would be great if it worked between all TiVos. E.g. change hard drives or buy a TiVo premiere as a replacement --- move the CableCARD w/o needing a truck roll.


With FIOS I'm pretty sure that's the case...but perhaps not? I can switch mine between my TiVo Series3 and TiVo HD. Seems like it shouldn't make a difference.


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## hsuthard

I'm hoping someone here logs on today!

I spent six and a half hours on the phone last night trying to get my Tivo working. I just received a refurbished Tivo Series 3 HD from Tivo last night as my prior refurb never quite worked right (it kept spontaneously rebooting). It arrived around 6pm on the UPS truck and by 6:30 I had it out of the box and upstairs. I took the cablecards from the Tivo that's going back and put them in the new TivoS3 and turned everything on, went through guided setup, etc. 

I went ahead and called Verizon and asked them to reset the cablecards. They did, and mentioned that from now on I could use their new software, In-Home Agent, to do these cablecard things myself. Turns out that's not true, but for a short while I had some hope. 

Anyway, I let him reset my two cards, hung up, and went back and restarted my Tivo. No luck, they're still not showing as activated or paired ( the VAL: field shows a ? instead of a YES and the Messages on the Network Status screen isn't populated or incrementing). 

So, I called back and asked Verizon to again activate and pair my cards. This tech insisted they needed to send out an installer for that, but I eventually convinced her to do it for me over the phone. Hung up, rebooted, and still no luck.

Next, I call Tivo, hoping they can help me narrow down the problem and communicate more clearly/simply with Verizon. I'm still hoping to avoid having someone come out. The tech walks me through several of the screens and decides they 100&#37; are not working cablecards, unless of course the Host ID numbers don't match. He instructs me to call verizon and make sure the Host ID and Data numbers match exactly and if they do then to order two new cablecards.

I call Verizon for the third time and have them eventually check the Host ID numbers. It takes a good 30 minutes of arguing and waiting to even get to this point. Why? Why can't they just listen to my polite, reasonable request? Why do they have to try other things first? I've told them this is my third call of the night! Anyway, they do finally check and the Host ID number DO NOT match. On either card. So, we set about correcting the Host Id and Data numbers for both cards. 

Once this is done, though, nothing is changing on my Tivo. After a little more digging (where?), the Verizon Tech determines these cards have been disabled. He enables them, and then has to de-activate and re-activate them. During this process (which has taken well over two hours by now), at some point a return order comes through on my account. He has no idea where this has come from and neither do I (I've been on the phone for the past four hours, I couldn't have done it!). One of the cablecards has been removed from my account, nonetheless, and since he's only tech support he doesn't have access to cancel the return order. I have to hang up, call another number, cancel the return order, and then call back and finish the card activation. Grrrr.

So I do. I call and try to cancel the order, but even though I have the order #, no one can seem to find it in the system. They insist it doesn't exist and the order # I have isn't valid. So, I call back Tech Support. Of course, the guy I'd been working with for three hours doesn't answer, so I have to spend the first 30 minutes going over my situation again from the beginning. I insist that he read the carefully worded case notes on my trouble ticket, but he's not interested. (Again, WHY???) 

Eventually he agrees to activate my cards. This process seems to take over 45 minutes each time they try, is it really that lengthy of an ordeal? At any rate, he's happy that he's activated the cards and instructs me to reboot. At this point, it's 12:45 am and I'm exhausted. I tell him I'll reboot and go to bed and call back in the morning. I have absolutely no faith that any of this has worked. I'm about to go try it again now and see if anything has changed overnight. I did force a couple of connections as well in hopes that updated software might help the connection process.

Any advice or consolations for me? Please tell me there have been worse installs. I was thankful that at least this time there weren't four Verizon guys in my house watching the thing. And I did have one Verizon guy stay until after 10pm one night trying to get it resolved so he could list it on his day's ticket as completed. 

If I hadn't had so many good experiences with Tivo over the past 15 years or so, I would surely have given up by now.


----------



## hsuthard

OK, the reboot didn't help. I called Tivo and they determined the cablecards are both bad. I'll just mention that I went through all this believing the cablecards were good since they had worked before in the old Tivo Series 3 being returned. I'm now on hold with Verizon waiting to order new cablecards.


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## rocko

hsuthard said:


> OK, the reboot didn't help. I called Tivo and they determined the cablecards are both bad. I'll just mention that I went through all this believing the cablecards were good since they had worked before in the old Tivo Series 3 being returned. I'm now on hold with Verizon waiting to order new cablecards.


Your first mistake was calling Verizon at all. If your CableCARDS work in one unit, they'll work in any unit.

Rebooting should never be necessary, BTW.

I would recommend calling the Fiber Solutions Center directly at (888) 553-1555 if you haven't been speaking to them already. These are the guys that the installation techs call to get the cards activated when they roll a truck. Make sure you note the Serial numbers of the cards and relate them correctly to the slot/host ID.

http://www22.verizon.com/ResidentialHelp/FiOSInternet/General+Support/Top+Questions/QuestionsOne/85220.htm


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## markgrogers

If you read back in this forum, you will see that bad cablecards is a fairly common complaint- so it it not terribly unusual that you got some bad cards. It is just unfortunate that you, me and others have to jump through hours of hoops before anyone can conclude that the cards are bad. I went through similar problems about 2 years ago here in Pennsylvania. Some of the Verizon people who came to my house had never even seen a TiVo before- and they did not want to follow TiVo's cablecard instructions. (They thought my Slingbox was something out of the Jetsons).

It is also not unusual the the Verizon people don't know or care much about TiVo- they would prefer and make more money if you pay for their DVR, so they get very little training and pay little attention to issues surrounding cable cards. It almost makes you wonder if they deliberately try to frustrate folks with cablecard issues- hoping that you'll give-up and just use their crappy DVR (I had one for awhile for free on my 2nd TV- and trust me, it is crappy, slow and hard to use compared to TiVo).

Its unfortunate, but I think you just have to picture yourself as swimming upstream on getting your set-up working. It may be the 4th of never before Verizon ever really concentrates on making TiVo/Cablecard set-up a priority.

AND Yes, as Rocko says, by all means call *Fiber Solutions*- they were the only ones who really got things working for me.


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## hsuthard

I have been talking with the Fiber Solutions Center. This last call to Verizon just ended with them insisting everything on their end was fine. However, the cards still aren't receiving ANY signal. They're calling me back (after lunch, I assume) for further work; they plan to conference in a Tivo guy. 

The tech I was working with insists he's run through a Validation with a Series 3 customer before; I can't find anywhere that there's any Validation option I can activate on the Tivo?

This isn't my first Tivo, or even my first Tivo Cablecard install. I've been doing this for years and it's never easy. I know that, and I think I've been very patient and accommodating. I'm using this place to vent a bit because this is JUST INSANE!!! I don't want to put any of the techs off, kwim?


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## hsuthard

And Mark, the whole reason I'm trying to get this working is so my son can use his new Slingbox and watch Tivo through his ipod Touch. I haven't even MENTIONED the slingbox to Verizon for fear of what they might say or do LOL. The first cablecard install we did with Verizon ended with no less than five Verizon installers meeting at our house and sitting in our theater room watching the setup and oohing over the box. I felt like maybe I was contributing a bit to the Tivo Knowledge Base at the local Fios center.


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## pilotbob

I thought that correct way to set up cable cards was to follow the cablecard set up directions?

http://www.tivo.com/assets/pdfs/CableCARDInstall_TiVoHD.pdf

You certainly didn't follow them.

For example...

you run guided setup FIRST before installing any cable cards.

then with the unit ON you insert the first cable card, wait for the config screen to come up....

then after that is working you insert the second...

then you run guided setup again.

I've gotta say... the steps you said you followed sound NOTHING like this.

BOb


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## hsuthard

Bob, do you think running the guided setup with the cablecards inserted have caused my problems?

If so, then what should I do next?

I will point out that not a single Tivo or Verizon tech has mentioned this to me, nor was it stated in the sheet that came with my box to follow any specific instructions . . . I turned to this thread after running the setup and a couple of tech support calls . . .


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## pilotbob

hsuthard said:


> Bob, do you think running the guided setup with the cablecards inserted have caused my problems?


I think it is fully worth following the steps as defined in the setup guide.

If those cableCards were working in the other series 3 then how can they be bad and how can they not be activated? It doesn't make sense.

Seems it's worth a try... but I can't guarantee success because as someone else said, you called Verizon and who knows when they screwed up on your account.

BOb


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## hsuthard

OK, I'm re-running the guided setup without any cards inserted and we'll go from there.


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## pilotbob

hsuthard said:


> OK, I'm re-running the guided setup without any cards inserted and we'll go from there.


Good luck... I hope you can get it going.

Make sure you insert the cards one at time while the TiVo is on.

BOb


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## markgrogers

hsuthard: My post about my experience with this is back on 1/25/2008 if you are interested. It sounds as if not much has changed. Verizon is still not really training their installers on cable cards and they are buying cards from manufacturers with high defect rates. You'll be educating installers one at a time as they visit and play cable-card roulette with your TiVo for a long tome to come.

And the instructions that pilotbob linked above are the ones that I begged my Verizon installers to follow, but they seemed more interested in doing it their own way. I finally did get a cooperative guy who did follow the instructions (but, of course, the cable cards were bad so it didn't help).

Anyway, good luck on your quest- for what its worth, once set-up, I have had no problems with the cards for 2 years.


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## richsadams

hsuthard said:


> OK, I'm re-running the guided setup without any cards inserted and we'll go from there.


I was also working under the assumption that you had run Guided Setup before doing anything else. If running GS doesn't change things, you might want to run a Clear and Delete everything and then run GS again. C&D will wipe any "left over" data and bring your TiVo back to all of the out of the box defaults.

Our FIOS install on our Series3 didn't go perfectly...the tech kept ignoring the installation instructions and insisted he could activate both cards at the same time. But after having no success he finally followed the instructions and almost everything was okay. I say almost because he just checked a few channels before leaving. Later I found that all of the pay channels with the HD Extreme package weren't working. After spending a half hour on the phone with their tech support they did something on their end to resolve that. (They apologized for the trouble.) I had to wait for about an hour before everything was in working order. It's been flawless since.

Best of luck...it will get fixed and hopefully soon!


----------



## hsuthard

Well, I re-did the guided setup with no change. Verizon called me back to continue trouble shooting, and we conferenced in a Tivo tech as well, but still no luck. The cards aren't communicating at all (the Messages field isn't populating and the OOB Signal won't lock and the Val field won't register). The only change Verizon has been able to affect is to change the EBCP field from Yes to No and then back again. 

I think I'm ready to try new cablecards, although while I'm waiting for them to come out I may try Rich's suggestion to clear & delete and re-run.


----------



## hsuthard

OK, I just did a clear & delete everything and re-ran guided setup. I'll force a couple of connections as well. I scheduled a technician to come out on Monday and made sure they made a note to bring several cablecards. It's just so frustrating because these Verizon guys really do try their best, but they just can't seem to get it right.

Think I should try to have Verizon activate the cards again now that I've done the clear & delete? Or should I just turn off the tv and wait until Monday?


----------



## Garloo

FWIW, my Fios install was also difficult, but not nearly as bad as yours.

I have a Series 3 HD that I used with Time Warner before switching to Fios. The software is current at Version 11.0d.

The tech tried to install two M cards, which is supposed to be possible with an S3 HD, but the unit did not accept them and the Fios system did not recognize them. Upon further testing the tech determined one of the M cards was defective, but even after replacing it, no luck with either CC. We spent several hours doing everything per the Tivo guided install and with the assistance of Tivo telephone tech support.

Finally, he went back to the office and dug up two old S cards, and the second he slipped them in, they were recognized and the system worked.


Garloo


----------



## hsuthard

I know there are some installation horror stories out there. I did do a full clear and delete everything and re-ran the guided setup. I installed the cards one at a time and had them individually activated following the instructions carefully. But no luck. I have a tech scheduled for Monday, and I had the last guy add to the notes that S-cards would be preferred if possible. I'll update on Monday to let you all know how quickly and successful the install is going


----------



## cwerdna

markgrogers said:


> hsuthard: My post about my experience with this is back on 1/25/2008 if you are interested. It sounds as if not much has changed. Verizon is still not really training their installers on cable cards and they are buying cards from manufacturers with high defect rates. You'll be educating installers one at a time as they visit and play cable-card roulette with your TiVo for a long tome to come.


It's definitely a case of YMMV, and it might depend on the area. I have FiOS in Redmond, WA and my install last year (Sept or October 09) went fine. The CableCARD portion of it took <15 minutes. See http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7690012&highlight=cablecard#post7690012

My card is from Motorola.


----------



## V7Goose

richsadams said:


> That is correct...although I can't verify if it works between devices, only TiVo's. I don't see why switching between devices would be any different though.


I can verify that at least in North Texas you can move Verizon cable cards between any compatible device without any problem whatsoever. But I got a nasty surprise with M cards recently.

I finally decided to force them to come out and swap my two S cards in the THD unit for M cards so I could effectively get another card at no more cost. My wife gets mad when I have both tuners busy on the main TiVo so she cannot watch something else, so I thought I'd just take the extra card from the THD and put it in the Sony plasma TV so she could always switch over and watch live TV on any channel when the TiVo was busy. I already knew the FiOS cable cards worked fine in this TV since I had pulled them from the TiVos and tried it.

The nasty surprise is that the new M card would not work in either the Sony plasma TV or the S3. I knew that the S3 would not use an M card as a dual tuner, but I assumed it would at least use them the same as an S card. BAD assumption! Neither my S3 nor my Sony TV will use any M card for anything but analog channels, even tho the same cards work perfectly in the THD. I had to call them back out to swap one of the new M cards back to an old S card just to use it! Other than that mess, I have never had even the slightest problem getting new cable cards from FiOS set up.
Goose


----------



## pghkirwan

jimtedjeske said:


> Unbelievable!! I just had the same problem of losing all channels above 50 here in the Pittsburgh area. I have already had a few calls with Verizon so I am already at a high degree of frustration on this but when I read the thread I thought I could get Verizon in Pittsburgh to talk to Verizon in New York to identify the problem and the solution. Apparently, they don't or won't talk to each other, they don't have the number for NY and there is no way to communicate. It almost makes me nostalgic for Comcast.


I had the same problem with my S3 and FIOS here in Pittsburgh - it worked fine for over a year after the initial install. Began having problems with non-local channels a couple of months ago and had a service tech come out. He removed the two attenuators that were attached to the S3, pinged the cards and, voila, everything worked fine until just recently. The same issue started again - we get the local stations but nothing over 50/550.

Called Fiber Solutions and talked with the CSR - he checked the cards from their end and saw no problems with the 2 S cards in this box. rebooted the S3 and the channels showed up. The CSR said that the SNR should be ~36 - and it was for both cards. He also suggested that the problem may be with the S3...

Here I am, 2 days later and I can't get the non-local channels.

Interesting thing is that this problem's only affecting my S3. I have a THD (with a recently installed M-card) that is not having any problems with reception.

Could record on the THD and use MRV to transfer to the S3 in the living room, but, that's not the point.

Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks,

Don


----------



## hsuthard

hsuthard said:


> I know there are some installation horror stories out there. I did do a full clear and delete everything and re-ran the guided setup. I installed the cards one at a time and had them individually activated following the instructions carefully. But no luck. I have a tech scheduled for Monday, and I had the last guy add to the notes that S-cards would be preferred if possible. I'll update on Monday to let you all know how quickly and successful the install is going


Well, it's up and running!! The Verizon guy was here for almost three hours, but it's working perfectly now. He ended up replacing the coax outlet in the wall and the cable, and that seemed to do it. He had initially tested the strength of my coax and found it to be okay, but after a couple of cablecard activation dances, he tested it again and found it to be sub-par and variable. Once he replaced the coax outlet and cable we instantly had a signal and the activations were able to take. So I did need him to come out after all.

Now I'm getting frustrated with the slingbox LOL. I can get it working straight from the router, but it doesn't seem to like the wireless bridge I have. I'm going to save that problem for tomorrow ;-)


----------



## richsadams

hsuthard said:


> Well, it's up and running!! The Verizon guy was here for almost three hours, but it's working perfectly now. He ended up replacing the coax outlet in the wall and the cable, and that seemed to do it. He had initially tested the strength of my coax and found it to be okay, but after a couple of cablecard activation dances, he tested it again and found it to be sub-par and variable. Once he replaced the coax outlet and cable we instantly had a signal and the activations were able to take. So I did need him to come out after all.


Hey...that's great news! Congrats and enjoy! :up:


----------



## lb3

pieler8 said:


> I have the exact same situation as you mae. Cancelled comcast on 3/24 with an effective date of 4/2. They tell me they cannot cancelled me until 4/13 but they will backdate/refund any charges as of 4/2.


Yeah, that's how Comcast seems to work. They charged me the full bill, then mailed me a check for the credit. Seems kind of stupid, but whatever... Maybe they're hoping you won't cash the check. 

Fios services have been working great for me. I do have some complaints about Verizon though.

1. They have overbilled me twice since I upgraded to a HD package from the base non-HD package I originally got. First, they charged a cancellation fee of $175. I got on online chat and they removed it quickly. However, the next month they added "Games on Demand" and Starz. Plus they Back billed me for the previous month too. I got on online chat again and they removed it quickly. Curious to see what next month holds....

2. I have 2 Tivo HDs. One was installed back in August and one was installed in January. The first one has 1 M-Card. The 2nd has 2 S-Cards. The installer didn't have any M-Cards. I didn't get charged for the extra card the 1st month, but it is on my bill now. So that's an extra $3.99 on my monthlybill. Going to call and try to get the 2nd S-Card for free when I have the time, but I am doubtful.


----------



## richsadams

lb3 said:


> Yeah, that's how Comcast seems to work. They charged me the full bill, then mailed me a check for the credit. Seems kind of stupid, but whatever... Maybe they're hoping you won't cash the check.
> 
> Fios services have been working great for me. I do have some complaints about Verizon though.
> 
> 1. They have overbilled me twice since I upgraded to a HD package from the base non-HD package I originally got. First, they charged a cancellation fee of $175. I got on online chat and they removed it quickly. However, the next month they added "Games on Demand" and Starz. Plus they Back billed me for the previous month too. I got on online chat again and they removed it quickly. Curious to see what next month holds....
> 
> 2. I have 2 Tivo HDs. One was installed back in August and one was installed in January. The first one has 1 M-Card. The 2nd has 2 S-Cards. The installer didn't have any M-Cards. I didn't get charged for the extra card the 1st month, but it is on my bill now. So that's an extra $3.99 on my monthlybill. Going to call and try to get the 2nd S-Card for free when I have the time, but I am doubtful.


Our experience with VZ tech has been very good. OTOH our experiences with VZ billing have been far less than satisfactory. That seems to be the consensus here and on almost every related forum I've ever visited. Their websites are kludgey and not at all user friendly IMO as well.

To be fair I've only had very poor experiences with Verizon Wireless which I had for a couple of years before we switched to FIOS. Based on that I was very concerned that they wouldn't get our FIOS package right initially. It seems to take an act of congress for them to get things straight with my cell phone account. Even the most simple things like changing our address on the cell account took them six months to correct. Comcast was just the opposite; the billing was always spot on, but their tech support less than desirable. Luckily everything on FIOS is fine.

I guess it's always something, but VZ really needs to invest in the customer support side of the business as it leaves a very bad taste in people's mouths.

Best of luck and I hope they get your account ironed out.


----------



## 241705

FiOS does not make it easy to get CableCards, that's for sure.

I decided to turn my FiOS TV service back on since they were offering some good deals if you sign-up online. Of course, you can't order CableCards online but you also can't get the deal if you call. So, I ordered online and indicated 1 HD set-top box needed just so I can complete the order and get the discount.

Afterwards, I had to call to cancel the HD box and request two CableCards instead. The guy on the phone was "pretty sure you can't have TV service without at least one set-top box"! I convinced him you could, and he said he updated the order. So, now the order says 1HD box PLUS 2 CableCards. I hope that will all be straightened out after the install is done...


----------



## richsadams

blackngold75 said:


> FiOS does not make it easy to get CableCards, that's for sure.
> 
> I decided to turn my FiOS TV service back on since they were offering some good deals if you sign-up online. Of course, you can't order CableCards online but you also can't get the deal if you call. So, I ordered online and indicated 1 HD set-top box needed just so I can complete the order and get the discount.
> 
> Afterwards, I had to call to cancel the HD box and request two CableCards instead. The guy on the phone was "pretty sure you can't have TV service without at least one set-top box"! I convinced him you could, and he said he updated the order. So, now the order says 1HD box PLUS 2 CableCards. I hope that will all be straightened out after the install is done...


I ran into the same issue when I placed our original order so I called in and told them I wanted the online offer but I couldn't complete the order because I needed cable cards. The CSR was actually quite understanding and worked it out without any issues. When the installer arrived (a contractor, not an actual VZ employee) he had down a set top box along with the cable cards. I explained things and he was pretty savvy. He called it in and the set top box was never included on our account.

However, as mentioned, once they have something in their system, it's almost in stone. I'd call them back because sure as heck once they activate your account that's what you'll get charged for. So I'd make sure things are right before they show up. Then I'd be sure to follow up with the installer and the office even before you get your first bill. I know it sounds like overkill but there are many, many posts here and elsewhere that have some real horror stories that could have probably been avoided if things were set up right in the first place.

Seems like a shame anyone should have to go through all of that, but that seems to be the norm unfortunately. The good...or great news is that once you experience FIOS you'll be very happy!

Best of luck!


----------



## georgemoe

After waiting two years for FiOS to get to my street, I finally got it installed today. No major issues other than HDMI will not work for FiOS/cbl channels.  I get the HDCP error on all cable channels. My OTA channels via the Tivo HD display fine but not the FiOS channels. The tech actually left after I switched over to component to get things to display. I'm not faulting him on this but he didn't really have much experience with Tivo's.

I called the Tivo CableCard Hotline who checked a number of screens and finally concluded that the cable card (M) was not authorized properly. It needed to be rehit. I called Fiber Solutions who rehit the card but nothing happened. They then proceeded to Google for a solution. 

I've tried to Google this issue myself and I'm coming up empty. HDMI works fine on the Tivo ant channels but not with FiOS/mCard. I changed inputs, cables, etc. No help. I'll eventually try some searches at dbstalk but I've hit a wall spending all day either with the installer or on the phone. About 8 hrs total.

Any ideas on this here? Thanks for your help!

George


----------



## rocko

blackngold75 said:


> FiOS does not make it easy to get CableCards, that's for sure.
> 
> I decided to turn my FiOS TV service back on since they were offering some good deals if you sign-up online. Of course, you can't order CableCards online but you also can't get the deal if you call. So, I ordered online and indicated 1 HD set-top box needed just so I can complete the order and get the discount.
> 
> Afterwards, I had to call to cancel the HD box and request two CableCards instead. The guy on the phone was "pretty sure you can't have TV service without at least one set-top box"! I convinced him you could, and he said he updated the order. So, now the order says 1HD box PLUS 2 CableCards. I hope that will all be straightened out after the install is done...


I had the same waltz with a CSR yesterday. Since I ordered and new Premier XL and I Wooted a S3 refurb, I figured I'd retire my 2 S2DT boxes. I currently have 4 'S' cards on my 2 THDs so let's do the math.

Keep 2 'S' cards for the S3. Check.

Order 3 'M' cards - 2 for my existing THDs and 1 for the new PXL The CSR can't guarantee 'M' cards but that's basically all they have anyway so, Check.

Return 2 'S' cards. Check.
Return 2 STBs. BS alert. A STB is required? Huh?

After a chat with a very nice and knowlegable girl at Fiber Solutions we came to the conclusion that the STB is a billing requirement, not a technical requirement. The CableCARDs will work just fine without a STB.

So that begs the question - if I return both STBs does that magically hose my account so the CableCARDS stop working?

I guess I'm asking other FIOS customers - Did you originally order CableCARDs and a STB and then return the box?


----------



## SoBayJake

rocko said:


> Return 2 STBs. BS alert. A STB is required? Huh?
> 
> After a chat with a very nice and knowlegable girl at Fiber Solutions we came to the conclusion that the STB is a billing requirement, not a technical requirement. The CableCARDs will work just fine without a STB.
> 
> So that begs the question - if I return both STBs does that magically hose my account so the CableCARDS stop working?
> 
> I guess I'm asking other FIOS customers - Did you originally order CableCARDs and a STB and then return the box?


I've never had STBs on my account, so I can't imagine that a billing requirement exists for an STB.

*edited to note I never had STBs on my account - only CableCards.


----------



## Scyber

I've never had a FIOS STB in my house, it is not a billing requirement.


----------



## richsadams

rocko said:


> I guess I'm asking other FIOS customers - Did you originally order CableCARDs and a STB and then return the box?


As mentioned earlier, they had me down for a STB and the tech brought one, but of course none was needed and it was never added to my account. So, perhaps that's the case...they can't process an order w/o including a STB? Seems crazy, but then...


----------



## rocko

richsadams said:


> As mentioned earlier, they had me down for a STB and the tech brought one, but of course none was needed and it was never added to my account. So, perhaps that's the case...they can't process an order w/o including a STB? Seems crazy, but then...


Thanks. I thought I posted a "nevermind" after reading you comments above but I guess not ...


----------



## mae

My HD and/or DVR expander died back on 3/1, and I'll post that saga on a new thread.

BUT, knowing I'd be without, I called VZ and asked about swapping my HD box (which was at the end of a one year free period) for a DVR. CSR said I couldn't have a regular DVR free, but could have the home media one (yeah, I know it is the same with different authorizations) free for a year. I took the HD box to a VZ store a few miles from here, swapped and activated it.

The billing has been right, $19.99 charge and $20 credit.

The experience has taught me how much I like my TiVo, but it beats watching in realtime!

So if you are calling them anyway to do a card order or swap, you might as well ask about a free year of either a box or DVR.

BTW, I got a Premiere XL today, put the M card in and had no problem getting all channels, including encrypted ones.


----------



## richsadams

mae said:


> BTW, I got a Premiere XL today, put the M card in and had no problem getting all channels, including encrypted ones.


Nice to hear. Our Premiere XL is supposed to arrive Friday. I pulled the cable card out of our TiVo HD so hopefully when I slip it into the new TiVo it will be back to business as usual. Looking forward to the new HD GUI!


----------



## mae

richsadams said:


> Looking forward to the new HD GUI!


Rich,

Don't have too high expectations. While mine is still indexing, the HDUI is VERRRY slow. In fact, on first boot, it wouldn't move off TiVo Central. Pulled the plug and rebooted. Still was crawling. Kept flipping back to old menus for some functions (see the new forum). Finally went to classic and it works great! The menus are really fast. Best Buy had an HD XL on clearance for $349 and I almost bought that, but figure as long as the old UI is there at fast, I can wait while they get it right. Besides I remember how development on old platforms stopped, so I figured I'd jump on the train early.

Mark


----------



## richsadams

mae said:


> Rich,
> 
> Don't have too high expectations. While mine is still indexing, the HDUI is VERRRY slow. In fact, on first boot, it wouldn't move off TiVo Central. Pulled the plug and rebooted. Still was crawling. Kept flipping back to old menus for some functions (see the new forum). Finally went to classic and it works great! The menus are really fast. Best Buy had an HD XL on clearance for $349 and I almost bought that, but figure as long as the old UI is there at fast, I can wait while they get it right. Besides I remember how development on old platforms stopped, so I figured I'd jump on the train early.
> 
> Mark


Yeah, I expect it'll be a little slower, particularly for the first few days while it's doing some housekeeping. Even after that I don't expect miracles...it is Flash based after all. The one thing I think I'll really appreciate is the "PIP" in the menus so I don't have to leave what I'm watching. The rest is eye candy of sorts, but will be fun to see. Hopefully it won't be too slow. Enjoy!


----------



## Revolutionary

rocko said:


> I had the same waltz with a CSR yesterday. Since I ordered and new Premier XL and I Wooted a S3 refurb, I figured I'd retire my 2 S2DT boxes. I currently have 4 'S' cards on my 2 THDs so let's do the math.
> 
> Keep 2 'S' cards for the S3. Check.
> 
> Order 3 'M' cards - 2 for my existing THDs and 1 for the new PXL The CSR can't guarantee 'M' cards but that's basically all they have anyway so, Check.
> 
> Return 2 'S' cards. Check.
> Return 2 STBs. BS alert. A STB is required? Huh?
> 
> After a chat with a very nice and knowlegable girl at Fiber Solutions we came to the conclusion that the STB is a billing requirement, not a technical requirement. The CableCARDs will work just fine without a STB.
> 
> So that begs the question - if I return both STBs does that magically hose my account so the CableCARDS stop working?
> 
> I guess I'm asking other FIOS customers - Did you originally order CableCARDs and a STB and then return the box?


I think it is an initial order requirement. I also ordered online but didn't need the HD STB, so I called and updated the order. I nixed the HD STB and asked for 2 cable cards instead. We also have an S2, so I ordered the basic digital adapter for that. The girl on the phone didn't bat an eye, but when I checked the order later that day, it now showed 2 CCs and an HD STB.

The tech called me before he came out to verify my equipment order. He noticed that I had two cablecards, one basic adapter, and an STB on the order, and asked if that was right, because it looked like I only had 2 outlets. I said that all that should be on there was the cable cards and the basic adapter. He explained that they need to have at least one gateway device per outlet on the order or it will not process, which is why the STB was still there, but it was no problem for him to cancel it upon install. We'll see how it gets billed, but I have no STB after install.

I infer from this that their fulfillment system makes sure that each outlet you identify has a required device, but since you can't order cable cards online, those don't count.


----------



## mae

richsadams said:


> Yeah, I expect it'll be a little slower, particularly for the first few days while it's doing some housekeeping.


Rich,

Well, it hung again on the HD menus. Had to reboot. Called in, their only suggestion was to reboot, but opened a ticket. I'll let it do whatever and leave it in classic over night before trying again.

Mark


----------



## richsadams

mae said:


> Rich,
> 
> Well, it hung again on the HD menus. Had to reboot. Called in, their only suggestion was to reboot, but opened a ticket. I'll let it do whatever and leave it in classic over night before trying again.
> 
> Mark


Well, that's a little worrisome. Although there are only a few others here that have received their Premieres, I haven't seen anyone post anything unusual. Hopefully it just needs to get itself organized and things will be good.


----------



## rocko

Thanks to all. I'll have the tech pick up the STBs along with the 2 space 'S' cards when he shows up. 

Since my appointment is in the afternoon I'm betting this guy will be willing to trade beer for NIM-100s. My 2 previous techs were happy to drink and part with obsolete equipment. Mheh heh heh


----------



## SoBayJake

They still carry NIM-100s? I might need them to bring me some additional CableCards if that's the case!


----------



## mae

richsadams said:


> Well, that's a little worrisome. Although there are only a few others here that have received their Premieres, I haven't seen anyone post anything unusual. Hopefully it just needs to get itself organized and things will be good.


Rich,

OK, problem was hitting the exit key on a Harmony set up for the HD. This is noted as causing the unit to hang on the impressions thread on the Premiere forum. Of course I found it there, but TiVo didn't know about the issue. Changed the exit key on the Harmony to Live TV and all is well. Strange it didn't hang in the classic interface though!

Mark


----------



## mae

rocko said:


> Thanks to all. I'll have the tech pick up the STBs along with the 2 space 'S' cards when he shows up.
> 
> Since my appointment is in the afternoon I'm betting this guy will be willing to trade beer for NIM-100s.


Don't get your hopes up. When I was installed in March, 2009, I asked the tech if he had any on his truck (he had been installing FIOS since the rollout). He said he hadn't seen any around the garage for over a year.


----------



## rocko

SoBayJake said:


> They still carry NIM-100s? I might need them to bring me some additional CableCards if that's the case!


They've been unnecessary since deployment of the newer routers (Actiontec and Westel) but apparently some still are kicking around on trucks.

Go figure - I'm always happy to help these guys clean out their trucks


----------



## richsadams

mae said:


> Rich,
> 
> OK, problem was hitting the exit key on a Harmony set up for the HD. This is noted as causing the unit to hang on the impressions thread on the Premiere forum. Of course I found it there, but TiVo didn't know about the issue. Changed the exit key on the Harmony to Live TV and all is well. Strange it didn't hang in the classic interface though!
> 
> Mark


Wow...that's very good to know. I use a Harmony as well and would have been upset if that happened to me...not to mention that the wife would have had a fit (she didn't think we needed "..._another_ TiVo?!" anyway  ). Thanks for the heads-up! :up:


----------



## mae

richsadams said:


> Wow...that's very good to know. I use a Harmony as well and would have been upset if that happened to me...not to mention that the wife would have had a fit (she didn't think we needed "..._another_ TiVo?!" anyway  ). Thanks for the heads-up! :up:


Rich,

I called back and sat on hold to let them know the resolution and close the case. I figure they have enough real bugs to squash. The CSR was very interested, took down the details and said he would enter it into their database. His theory was that the legacy code recognized the IR signal, while the new code had no idea what to do with it.

Of course, I'm sure plenty of folks have old peanuts sitting around (I bought a few on WOOT) and will have the same problem if they hit the exit key on that.

Glad I avoided the wife being annoyed. I found and fixed it before she got home!

Mark


----------



## richsadams

mae said:


> Glad I avoided the wife being annoyed. I found and fixed it before she got home!


If momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy!


----------



## 241705

Tech showed up this morning with the two cards I'd ordered: one for my TivoHD and one for my Premiere. About 30 minutes later, everything was working perfectly, and the CableCard installs went exactly as described in the instructions.


----------



## richsadams

blackngold75 said:


> Tech showed up this morning with the two cards I'd ordered: one for my TivoHD and one for my Premiere. About 30 minutes later, everything was working perfectly, and the CableCard installs went exactly as described in the instructions.


Sweet. Enjoy! :up:


----------



## bma

Has anyone ever gotten M-Cards that are detected as S-Cards in the THD (not S3)?

I have gotten two cards now that act like this. It clearly says on it Motorola M-Card; TiVo's CC hotline said the first time I called that the card was likely faulty because the second number in "FW Version" was '-.-' (null), and the new card has the same setup. The FiOS tech said he's installed these cards in THDs fine before and are detected as M-Cards, so wondering if my THD is faulty... would be nice to only have to pay for one CC instead of two to get both tuners working.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

bma said:


> Has anyone ever gotten M-Cards that are detected as S-Cards in the THD (not S3)?


Yes, sort of.

On some (not all) of my TiVo HD boxes, when the card was first inserted the TiVo said something like "S-card detected". But about 5 or 10 seconds later the screen switched to "M-card detected". The other boxes detected the M-card immediately after it was inserted.

So clearly there is an algorithm that the TiVo is following that is perhaps not infallible.


----------



## DeWitt

On the Tivo HD an M card MUST be in slot one.


----------



## bma

DeWitt said:


> On the Tivo HD an M card MUST be in slot one.


Yes, it was in slot 1. It also never changed from "S-Card" (waited about 30 seconds). I'm going to try and snag a third card from them to try one more time; but am starting to suspect the TiVo and not the cards...


----------



## hoyty

I have had FIOS for a few months. I only have a Series 3 and no Verizon STB. Recently my 5 year old 27" Westinghouse bit the dust and I swapped with a 4 year old one from spare bedroom. The orginial only had DVI + RCA and the new one has HDMI. Since the switch we are getting fairly regular sound drops on lots of channels. Anyone else experience this? I am thinking of switching back to analog audio to see if it fixes it since the Westinghouse is stereo only anyway.


----------



## mayhews

I have a Series 3 HD with cable cards and Verizon Fios. They did the install over a year ago with no problems, and everything ran flawlessly until Monday night at 9:05, when there was suddenly no signal. ("Searching for signal on ..."). Tried the usual things, no joy.

Called tech support this morning and after 45 minutes the tech was able to do something that caused an error message (Error 161-4) on each of the cable cards, but could not get it working. He dispatched a tech who tested the cable, reconnected it and VOILA!, picture and sound. Of course, an hour later it was gone (and so was he).

Before I put myself through another day of tech support hell, is there anything other than the simultaneous failure of both cable cards that might cause this? Is it possible that one of them wasn't working for a while without my being aware of it?


----------



## rage777

mayhews said:


> I have a Series 3 HD with cable cards and Verizon Fios. They did the install over a year ago with no problems, and everything ran flawlessly until Monday night at 9:05, when there was suddenly no signal. ("Searching for signal on ..."). Tried the usual things, no joy.
> 
> Called tech support this morning and after 45 minutes the tech was able to do something that caused an error message (Error 161-4) on each of the cable cards, but could not get it working. He dispatched a tech who tested the cable, reconnected it and VOILA!, picture and sound. Of course, an hour later it was gone (and so was he).
> 
> Before I put myself through another day of tech support hell, is there anything other than the simultaneous failure of both cable cards that might cause this? Is it possible that one of them wasn't working for a while without my being aware of it?


I had a similar problem where my internet and cable went out. Called tech support and they fixed the problem. About 20 minutes later it went out again. Called back and they fixed the internet but had to do a truck roll for the cable. I then found out that my circuit breaker to the Fios backup battery popped. I put it back and then it worked fine. So, you might want to check the backup battery and see if you had a breaker pop.


----------



## wmcbrine

hoyty said:


> ... HDMI. Since the switch we are getting fairly regular sound drops on lots of channels. Anyone else experience this?


Yeah. Try the Dolby Digital to PCM option.


----------



## 3morgans

I have a current FIOS install with two cablecards on a Series 3. Works perfectly.

I am moving to Philly and was setting up my new install and the CSR was trying to tell me that the cablecards are SD only. I am pretty sure this is not true, but just wanted to verify with anyone out there who has had a successful install in the Philly area. Anyone have any feedback?

I think I need to tell them to bring me a settop box (they can't remove from the order) and two cablecards and I should be good to go. I'll have the install tech remove the settop box from the order upon install.

-Eric


----------



## 241705

3morgans said:


> I have a current FIOS install with two cablecards on a Series 3. Works perfectly.
> 
> I am moving to Philly and was setting up my new install and the CSR was trying to tell me that the cablecards are SD only. I am pretty sure this is not true, but just wanted to verify with anyone out there who has had a successful install in the Philly area. Anyone have any feedback?
> -Eric


I recently had two CableCards installed (1 for a TivoHD, 1 for a Premiere) in Northern DE (Philly VHO). Two things:
1. A set top box is not required, and after a brief "education" of the customer service rep they were able to remove that from the order.
2. The Tivo with CableCard gets ALL of the digital channels in your package, both SD and HD.


----------



## zyzzx

3morgans said:


> I am moving to Philly and was setting up my new install and the CSR was trying to tell me that the cablecards are SD only. I am pretty sure this is not true, but just wanted to verify with anyone out there who has had a successful install in the Philly area. Anyone have any feedback?


The CSR lied to you.


----------



## richsadams

3morgans said:


> I have a current FIOS install with two cablecards on a Series 3. Works perfectly.
> 
> I am moving to Philly and was setting up my new install and the CSR was trying to tell me that the cablecards are SD only. I am pretty sure this is not true, but just wanted to verify with anyone out there who has had a successful install in the Philly area. Anyone have any feedback?
> 
> I think I need to tell them to bring me a settop box (they can't remove from the order) and two cablecards and I should be good to go. I'll have the install tech remove the settop box from the order upon install.
> 
> -Eric


I don't know if the CSR was intentionally lying, but obviously misinformed. There's no such thing as an "SD Cable Card". You just need two "S" (single stream...which are pretty rare any more) or two "M" (multi-stream) cable cards and you'll be good to go.

Regarding the set top box, we had to do the same thing. Apparently their system won't generate a work order w/o a STB being included. The installer will understand that you don't need it and take it off of the work order.

Enjoy your new digs!


----------



## mae

According to this thread on DSL Reports, VZ will be setting the CCI flag nationwide..

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r24453129-TIVO-Upcoming-changes-will-affect-MRV-Functionality

[TIVO] Upcoming changes will affect MRV Functionality

Verizon is planning on implementing copy-once on CableCARD recording devices and it looks like the TiVo multi-room viewing functionality in particular will be affected.

It has been already been implemented in OR and WA and is the start of a national deployment.

See this post in particular for the details:
»Re: Frontier FIOS TV: not even Frontier yet and already FAIL http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r24453024-

And these two threads from the start:

»Frontier FIOS TV: not even Frontier yet and already FAIL

»Anyone in Oregon, Washington, or Indiana 6/7/10


----------



## zyzzx

No!


----------



## aaronwt

So far this has only been in areas being converted to Frontier.
I have not heard of anyone outside of future Frontier areas having any issues yet. I know I have not seen anything in my area yet either.

Only time will tell if it's implemented. If it is, Oh well. I'll continue using my TiVos but just make sure I stick a larger drive in all my remaining boxes.

I just put a 2TB drive in one of my Premieres a couple of weeks ago. I'll just have to pick up some more from dvr_dude and go back to having duplicate recordings on multiple boxes. So I have access to everything at multiple locations. Which is how I did it before I had FiOS.


----------



## rifleman69

aaronwt said:


> So far this has only been in areas being converted to Frontier.
> I have not heard of anyone outside of future Frontier areas having any issues yet. I know I have not seen anything in my area yet either.


It's coming, straight from Verizon's mouth.


----------



## aaronwt

rifleman69 said:


> It's coming, straight from Verizon's mouth.


I better order my larger drives soon then.

Although I wouldn't call this response that was posted straight from Verizons' mouth. If that was the case then many other things would have happened in the past based on info "straight from Verizons' mouth"


----------



## rifleman69

aaronwt said:


> I better order my larger drives soon then.
> 
> Although I wouldn't call this response that was posted straight from Verizons' mouth. If that was the case then many other things would have happened in the past based on info "straight from Verizons' mouth"


I would, it was obtained by our local franchising authority. Can't be more black and white than that. It is however a canned answer as the exact same terminology has been given out by Verizon to other subscribers...including those not in the Frontier footprint. Legal told them what to say and not say obviously.


----------



## eagle104

Just finally got Fios installed, was holding out due to a DT Tivo, and the cablecard part went flawlessly. As I was in the bedroom hooking up the STB to my gimped now 1 tuner DT Tivo he got the Tivo HD going. I have a free 6 months new Media HD DVR FIOS box to get me through till I guess I can figure out how to procede with a new TIVO for the bedroom.


----------



## BrownSanta

i just had fios installed yesterday and my s3 is up and running without any issues. obviously no vod but thats not really that important to me.

my biggest complaint is learning all the new channels since they arent the same as comcast.


----------



## richsadams

BrownSanta said:


> i just had fios installed yesterday and my s3 is up and running without any issues. obviously no vod but thats not really that important to me.
> 
> my biggest complaint is learning all the new channels since they arent the same as comcast.


Welcome to the forum! Congrats and enjoy...I know you will!


----------



## Rdian06

Forgive me for not searching the thread fully. Did go through the last 6 or so pages and didn't find what I was looking for.

I'm getting ready to switch to FIOS and was trying to figure out how much I'm going to get charged for CableCards.

I have two S3 OLED units which I know require two cards each. Do they charge the same rate for each card or is there a discounted rate for the second card in each TiVo.

I just got a TiVo Premiere which will replace one of the S3's which will mean I'll only need 3 cards instead of 4. Trying to figure what the cost savings will be if get another Premiere to replace the second S3.


----------



## SoBayJake

Rdian06 said:


> Forgive me for not searching the thread fully. Did go through the last 6 or so pages and didn't find what I was looking for.
> 
> I'm getting ready to switch to FIOS and was trying to figure out how much I'm going to get charged for CableCards.
> 
> I have two S3 OLED units which I know require two cards each. Do they charge the same rate for each card or is there a discounted rate for the second card in each TiVo.
> 
> I just got a TiVo Premiere which will replace one of the S3's which will mean I'll only need 3 cards instead of 4. Trying to figure what the cost savings will be if get another Premiere to replace the second S3.


All CableCARDs from FiOS are $3.99 each (plus taxes). A truck-roll for JUST CC installation is free, and they are free at the time of FiOS installation too.


----------



## Ron Tobin

Rdian06 said:


> Forgive me for not searching the thread fully. Did go through the last 6 or so pages and didn't find what I was looking for.
> 
> I'm getting ready to switch to FIOS and was trying to figure out how much I'm going to get charged for CableCards.
> 
> I have two S3 OLED units which I know require two cards each. Do they charge the same rate for each card or is there a discounted rate for the second card in each TiVo.
> 
> I just got a TiVo Premiere which will replace one of the S3's which will mean I'll only need 3 cards instead of 4. Trying to figure what the cost savings will be if get another Premiere to replace the second S3.


I just got a TiVo Premiere, too, and had to have a truck roll for delivery of the M Card for the Premiere. They get $3.99 for the M card.

I'm selling my Tivo S3 w/lifetime service (it's on Ebay now) and I need to return the 2 S cards from that unit. I was paying $2.99 for each of those cards. As I'm writing this I'm wondering if perhaps I should hold on to the S3 instead of renting the Verizon HD box.

My understanding is that there's no charge for a truck roll just to install the cable card.


----------



## wmcbrine

I just moved, and I'm wondering myself if I'll end up paying the old $3 or new $4 rate for the old cards I kept. (As a Fios subscriber, when you move, they essentially set you up as a new account.) But I know I'll pay $4 for the new card in my Premie. The Rent Is Too Damn High&#8482;, either way.


----------



## kidfried

I'm switching form Cablevision OptimumTV to Verizon Fios TV with a TivoHD and I just purchased a Motorola M-Card cable card so that I will not have to rent the Verizon cable card.

I inquired about doing this with verizon's customer service live chat. Here's what they said:
Dan(14:00:54): one last question. Since I have a cable card. Will I be able to return the Verizon one when the service man comes over so I don't have to pay the rental fee each month
Angela(14:01:24): No. You must order Verizon's cable card and it must be installed by Verizon. 

Basically they require you rent their card. Is this consistent with what everyone else has experienced?


----------



## wkearney99

I don't know that you can get away with not renting a card. I've never heard of being able to buy one. 

Their database needs to be updated to allow a given card number to operate. I don't think they'd allow a card to be active without there also being a monthly rental for it. I suppose anything's possible, like their database of active cards could be separate from monthly billing. But you'd end up with an orphaned card that doesn't exist in their database. From what I've encountered with field techs and cablecard activations there seems to be a very precise number of steps they have to follow in order to get them working. I'd also think tying an active card to a billing account would also prevent field techs from inappropriately activating service. 

I'd have to imagine at some point their database would get purged of any cards not associated with active accounts. So eventually any orphaned cards would be deactivated. At least that's what a sensible revenue-generating system would do. I can't testify that Verizon does much that could be even remotely called sensible but they do know how to bill for things. 

I guess they could associate your card with a monthly billing. But why bother? You'd be paying the same monthly fee regardless.

As for live chat, they couldn't reliably tell you if water was wet.


----------



## richsadams

kidfried said:


> Basically they require you rent their card. Is this consistent with what everyone else has experienced?


Yes. The cards are proprietary.


----------



## wkearney99

richsadams said:


> Yes. The cards are proprietary.


I don't think the cards are proprietary. I think they've just 'regular' cablecards. What's important is that their ID numbers be entered into Verizon's database in order for them to be activated and function. Now, it may be possible that Verizon has schemed to have the cards uniquely identifiable, but I doubt it.


----------



## richsadams

wkearney99 said:


> I don't think the cards are proprietary. I think they've just 'regular' cablecards. What's important is that their ID numbers be entered into Verizon's database in order for them to be activated and function. Now, it may be possible that Verizon has schemed to have the cards uniquely identifiable, but I doubt it.


Agreed, they are standard cable cards, but they are identified as Verizon's and VZ won't use any cards but their own, so for all intents and purposes they are proprietary.


----------



## emkorial

aaronwt said:


> I better order my larger drives soon then.
> 
> Although I wouldn't call this response that was posted straight from Verizons' mouth. If that was the case then many other things would have happened in the past based on info "straight from Verizons' mouth"


I personally doubt it's going to happen, FIOS is losing customers and losing money, pissing off existing customers isn't good for the bottom line.

I rarely MRV anyway, but if Fios did do this I'd kick them to the curb and go to Comcast. Fios isn;t that great anyway, looks great on paper, in reality, it's the same as any other cable service: overpriced and doesn't deliver what is advertised.


----------



## SoBayJake

emkorial said:


> I personally doubt it's going to happen, FIOS is losing customers and losing money, pissing off existing customers isn't good for the bottom line.
> 
> I rarely MRV anyway, but if Fios did do this I'd kick them to the curb and go to Comcast. Fios isn;t that great anyway, looks great on paper, in reality, it's the same as any other cable service: overpriced and doesn't deliver what is advertised.


Aside from billing nightmares, what don't they deliver? I get all the channels I am supposed to get, picture quality is excellent, and my download speeds are correct.


----------



## wmcbrine

emkorial said:


> FIOS is losing customers and losing money


Where do you get that from?


----------



## kidfried

fyi my verizon tech was not super knowledgable, he said my motorola card was the exact same as he uses with fios, but he had not been told that i had requested a cable card rental for some reason and did not have one with him. He tried to activate mine but told me he could not and I'd have to request a rental. I'll feel it out one more time with verizon on the phone. Certainly is illogical to have to pay their rental fee when all they have to do is activate and validate my card.


----------



## SoBayJake

kidfried said:


> fyi my verizon tech was not super knowledgable, he said my motorola card was the exact same as he uses with fios, but he had not been told that i had requested a cable card rental for some reason and did not have one with him. He tried to activate mine but told me he could not and I'd have to request a rental. I'll feel it out one more time with verizon on the phone. Certainly is illogical to have to pay their rental fee when all they have to do is activate and validate my card.


I don't know how CableCARDS work exactly, but if they have an embedded secret, then they might have to come from the cable co inventory.

The Verizon Headend might not know how to communicate with a non-Verizon CC. The CC interface to the STB is standard, but the CA (conditional access) system might not be. The CA portion is proprietary.


----------



## richsadams

My money says there's cable card rental fee's in the OP's future.


----------



## pieler8

My tivo series 3 HD isn't receiving any premium channels. The locals are coming in fine. 

fios tech re-paired the m card. on the conditional access screen i'm seeing this

Con: Yes EBCP: Yes Val: V 0x00

Nothing else below that. 

Would anyone know the problem?


----------



## pieler8

pieler8 said:


> My tivo series 3 HD isn't receiving any premium channels. The locals are coming in fine.
> 
> fios tech re-paired the m card. on the conditional access screen i'm seeing this
> 
> Con: Yes EBCP: Yes Val: V 0x00
> 
> Nothing else below that.
> 
> Would anyone know the problem?


ignore this, just did a manual update to 11.0k, fixed it!


----------



## kurtster

emkorial said:


> I personally doubt it's going to happen, FIOS is losing customers and losing money, pissing off existing customers isn't good for the bottom line.
> 
> I rarely MRV anyway, but if Fios did do this I'd kick them to the curb and go to Comcast. Fios isn;t that great anyway, looks great on paper, in reality, it's the same as any other cable service: overpriced and doesn't deliver what is advertised.


I'm going back to FIOS. Comcast is killing me with the fee hikes over time. I started with $99/month with Starz and HBO, now I'm up to $170/mo. $18 of that is for 4 cable cards without ever doing anything to change my service. They also won't let me transfer HBO or Starz content from my HDXL to my Series 3. FIOS had no such restriction when I was with them.


----------



## Revolutionary

Wow, I forgot all about this thread. Almost 2 years on, and there's still no sign of the dreaded 0x02 flag on my FIOS channels.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

Revolutionary said:


> Wow, I forgot all about this thread. Almost 2 years on, and there's still no sign of the dreaded 0x02 flag on my FIOS channels.


Move to Frontier-land, you'll get all the 0x02 flags on FiOS that you could ever desire.

I'd like to believe that the stock market rewards Verizon for its (relative) competence as compared to Frontier, as manifested by the differing Copy Control Information flags in the two systems. But it's probably much simpler than that. Frontier is (probably) just utterly inept. They recently cut their dividend (for the 2nd time in two years). They haven't yet gone bankrupt, but that's what happened to two other entities, Fairpoint Communications and Hawaiian Telecom, that Verizon previously sold subscribers to.


----------



## vurbano

Revolutionary said:


> Wow, I forgot all about this thread. Almost 2 years on, and there's still no sign of the dreaded 0x02 flag on my FIOS channels.


you know i think its still on only one channel. the silly HUBHD channel that I never watch anyway. And never will as long as its there.


----------



## das335

I recently kicked the Verizon DVR to the curb and added a cablecard to my TiVO HD. I did the self-install and it took about 10 minutes to get the cablecard up and running. No issues.

Just prior to all of this, I had a router/ONT issue and had both replaced. To eliminate any questions, I removed a 2nd Actiontec router I used as a MoCa switch and replaced it with my old Motorola NIM 100.

When I connected the TiVo to the Verizon cable feed, I used the TV output coax jack on the NIM 100, since it was available.

Ok, here is the mystery. Today I decide to cleanup some of the cables left over after removing the Verizon DVR. Bad Idea. 4 hours later and a lot of TiVo restarts, I finally got everything working "normally" again with my original cable connection from the NIM 100.

It appears that the NIM 100 TV output has the MoCa frequencies filtered out. When I look at signal strengths using this setup, I get mostly 90 - 100 with a SNR of 36 - 37.

If I simply use the signal straight from the Verizon connection thru a cable company provided 2-way splitter, I get signal strengths of 40 -70 and several of the channels (600,602,603,619...) show 0 for strength. 

I searched and found a lot on using a low pass filter (LPF) and saw that some people had used a satellite diplexor as an alternative. I had a Radio Shack one available so I gave it a try. The results where similar to the 2-way splitter test. I still had low signal strengths (< 70) and saw pixellation on several channels (SNR about 26). Most of the missing channels were still not found.


Finally , here are the questions:

1) Can anyone verify that the NIM 100 does block the MoCa frequencies (like a LPF) on its TV output jack ?

2) Can I use 2 way splitters that are rated for 5-900 MHZ to block (or filter) MoCa frequencies on the output side ?

3) When I restart the TiVo (with it connected to the NIM TV output), I often get a "Acquiring Channel Information, please wait" type message and it takes about 10 minutes to get to Live TV. Is this normal ? 

I have used my TiVo HD with antenna for about 3 years with almost no problems so I am a bit spoiled. 


I will try and get a LPF from Verizon but I need to have a backup in case the NIM 100 stops working. I hope to run cat-6 wiring in the future and reuse the NIM 100 in another room.

Sorry for rambling, it was a long and unproductive day


----------



## shamilian

das335 said:


> Finally , here are the questions:
> 
> 1) Can anyone verify that the NIM 100 does block the MoCa frequencies (like a LPF) on its TV output jack ?
> 
> 2) Can I use 2 way splitters that are rated for 5-900 MHZ to block (or filter) MoCa frequencies on the output side ?
> 
> 3) When I restart the TiVo (with it connected to the NIM TV output), I often get a "Acquiring Channel Information, please wait" type message and it takes about 10 minutes to get to Live TV. Is this normal ?
> 
> I will try and get a LPF from Verizon but I need to have a backup in case the NIM 100 stops working. I hope to run cat-6 wiring in the future and reuse the NIM 100 in another room.
> 
> Sorry for rambling, it was a long and unproductive day


1) It likely has an internal diplexer.

2) No, Just because they say what they do between 50-900MHz they say nothing about what happens outside that range.

3) That is a long time check your OOB signal level

I called the FIOS help line and request the LPF. They provided an in-line filter that filters above 860MHz.

First check the signal strength without the splitter ( they can be bad, so can cable connections ). Check at various channels using the DVR diag screen and note the frequencies not the channel numbers.

If you have a few bad channels ( in nearby frequencies) that usually means that you have a bad connection/cable/splitter....


----------



## das335

Thanks for the info. I will get a Low Pass Filter (LPF) and see how it works. Things are fine right now but I want to have options.


----------



## pacor

I have a TIVO HD with a verizon cable card working. I have another TIVO HD in a different room with no cable card, just antena. Can I move the cable card from one TIVO HD to the other without having to have a Verizon tech come by? It is just as easy as get the card out of one TIVO and insert it on the other and do the setup?


----------



## wkearney99

The cablecards are designed to be paired with the Tivo. If they are then you cannot move the card between them. I believe Verizon pairs them, so no you can't do what you're suggesting.

And you probably don't want to either. For one you run the risk of the socket getting worn out or damaged by pulling/replacing the card all the time. Then there's the disruption of the service, you'll have the Tivo without the card getting confused about what channels it can get. 

If you've got a Tivo HD then it only needs one M-type cablecard.

The cards rent cheap, just rent it from verizon.


----------



## SoBayJake

Unless it's a new policy, Verizon does NOT pair them. I have moved all my cards around as recently as 2 months ago without issue.


----------



## unitron

pacor said:


> I have a TIVO HD with a verizon cable card working. I have another TIVO HD in a different room with no cable card, just antena. Can I move the cable card from one TIVO HD to the other without having to have a Verizon tech come by? It is just as easy as get the card out of one TIVO and insert it on the other and do the setup?


When you say "just antenna" do you have cable running to that thing or not?


----------



## teasip

Verizon doesn't pair but why would you want to move them unless you were having issues and wanting to exclude the CC's as a potential source? Same question as unitron, coax from Verizon splitter to TV or an actual OTA antenna on the second TiVo? I'm using the Verizon feed to a third TV without a converter box or CC just to get the QAM locals.


----------



## wmcbrine

SoBayJake said:


> Unless it's a new policy, Verizon does NOT pair them. I have moved all my cards around as recently as 2 months ago without issue.


It is a (relatively) new policy, and they do pair them. However, this doesn't necessarily mean that you can't move them -- I think a paired card moved to a different unit will just act the same as an unpaired card. And on Fios, an unpaired card is sufficient, since all channels (except 131/1952) have CCI = 0.


----------



## deepthinker

This is all changing as of July 31st. I just got a letter in the mail from Verizon today and have found one other online so far saying your card must be activated and that starting July 31st they will be enforcing the copy once broadcast flags. I don't see how to attach my own scan of the PDF, but someone on another forum has scanned the letter already.

http://www.dslreports.com/r0/download/2013367~a4e3a0515b2e82182c1e90ace4d3dbf3/5112_HBO_LTR_v1r4.pdf


----------



## Jonathan_S

deepthinker said:


> This is all changing as of July 31st. I just got a letter in the mail from Verizon today and have found one other online so far saying your card must be activated and that starting July 31st they will be enforcing the copy once broadcast flags. I don't see how to attach my own scan of the PDF, but someone on another forum has scanned the letter already.
> 
> http://www.dslreports.com/r0/download/2013367~a4e3a0515b2e82182c1e90ace4d3dbf3/5112_HBO_LTR_v1r4.pdf


I saw the same thing in an engadet article and was coming to post that.

I'll miss being able to backup anything to my computer. Hopefully Verizon will apply the copy protection bits sparingly; but I guess we'll have to wait and see.


----------



## dgb99

It'll be interesting to see if my TV goes out...

I have an original Series 3 Tivo that I basically did the Cablecard installation on when I first got it because the 'installer' had no idea what he was doing. Neither did I really but I had some helpful guides from these forums. No idea if I did it 'right' back then other than that it worked.

Sometime in the last year, the hard drive died and I replaced it with a new hard drive from Weaknees. I figured I would have to redo the Cablecard procedure but was surprised that it worked right from poweron.

Now if I go to channel 131 like the flyer says, I get a canned commercial which, again based on the flyer, indicates I should not have to do anything. However, the error message looked familiar so I went through the Tivo menus to the Cablecard pairing menus and I can see that exact message.

So who's taking bets on whether my FIOS TV will work on August 1st? Based on Verizon's outstanding customer support and communication methods, I'm guessing it will not work...


----------



## SoBayJake

At least someone at Verizon seems to understand the CCI byte!

Most local cable headend support people don't seem to. I know Verizon has the super headends, so since they (hopefully) set the CCI byte there for just the channels they went, and local channels shouldn't have it set, we might get lucky.

Cross your fingers (or TiVo antennae!)


----------



## aaronwt

dgb99 said:


> It'll be interesting to see if my TV goes out...
> 
> I have an original Series 3 Tivo that I basically did the Cablecard installation on when I first got it because the 'installer' had no idea what he was doing. Neither did I really but I had some helpful guides from these forums. No idea if I did it 'right' back then other than that it worked.
> 
> Sometime in the last year, the hard drive died and I replaced it with a new hard drive from Weaknees. I figured I would have to redo the Cablecard procedure but was surprised that it worked right from poweron.
> 
> Now if I go to channel 131 like the flyer says, I get a canned commercial which, again based on the flyer, indicates I should not have to do anything. However, the error message looked familiar so I went through the Tivo menus to the Cablecard pairing menus and I can see that exact message.
> 
> So who's taking bets on whether my FIOS TV will work on August 1st? Based on Verizon's outstanding customer support and communication methods, I'm guessing it will not work...


It should still work. It would only be an issue on certain premium channels if the CC is not paired to the TiVo.

Sent from my HTC ReZound using Forum Runner


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

dgb99 said:


> So who's taking bets on whether my FIOS TV will work on August 1st? Based on Verizon's outstanding customer support and communication methods, I'm guessing it will not work...


Wouldn't hurt to double-check with both tuners if you're using 2 cards. If you're seeing content on 131 (looping Fios info) then you're fine. It's paired.


----------



## jon96cobra

I just got Fios from having Comcast. I just got my first bill and the cable cards price is 3.99 per card. I have a Series 3 so I have to have the 2 cards. I also have a series 2 Toshiba connected to a Digital adapter for the bedroom TV. I just have the double play with internet. I don't see the discount for the Tivo box like I did with Comcast on the bill. What should the line item say for the discount since I'm using my own boxes?


----------



## aaronwt

jon96cobra said:


> I just got Fios from having Comcast. I just got my first bill and the cable cards price is 3.99 per card. I have a Series 3 so I have to have the 2 cards. I also have a series 2 Toshiba connected to a Digital adapter for the bedroom TV. I just have the double play with internet. I don't see the discount for the Tivo box like I did with Comcast on the bill. What should the line item say for the discount since I'm using my own boxes?


There is no discount. Each cable card is $3.99. Whether you have one or eight. It's still a lot less than what Comcast charges since Comcast has a digital outlet fee for each device.

Sent from my HTC ReZound using Forum Runner


----------



## jtkohl

deepthinker said:


> This is all changing as of July 31st. I just got a letter in the mail from Verizon today


I got one of those letters too. Made the mistake of trying to follow the instructions 
First evening wasted: could not pair the existing two s-cards in my S3. VZ sent replacement cards via UPS
Second evening wasted: swapped in the new cards, was able to activate them (and see encrypted subscribed channels, such as HGTV, etc.)
But channel 131 showed cards not paired.
Wasted an hour on the phone with a rep who couldn't find any way to pair them. He deauthorized and reauthorized, but now I get only unencrypted channels. Tech coming tomorrow morning. Perhaps he'll be able to pair them?
Or at least restore my subscribed channels


----------



## Thos19

Like jtkohl, I tried to work with Verizon via phone to pair the two Motorolla cable cards (M-Cards in my case.) Everything had worked fine, prior. He deauthorized and reauthorized twice, and now I get only unencrypted channels on one card, while the other says it has no signal at all. The tech said his screen told him both cards were "active" on his end.

Gotta wait until Saturday for a tech visit. 

Thos.


----------



## jtkohl

In my case, the tech came by with two M cards. He took out the two S cards I had, put in the M cards, spent some time doing something (while I did work in the other room), and about 45 mins later all channels were working and pairing was complete. He took the two S cards with him in exchange.


----------



## billys9319

jtkohl said:


> In my case, the tech came by with two M cards. He took out the two S cards I had, put in the M cards, spent some time doing something (while I did work in the other room), and about 45 mins later all channels were working and pairing was complete. He took the two S cards with him in exchange.


I tried 6 S-Cards and all would not pair but when Verizon shipped a M-Card by mistake it paired right away. I now have two M-cards and both are paired. Looks like Verizon S-Card will not pair for some reason.


----------



## wkearney99

I believe it's only the actual Series 3 model, and not the Tivo HD or others that require more than one M-card. We've got two Tivo HD models here, each has only one M-card. Previously they had two S-cards each but when Verizon came out with M-card support I had them swapped out (and now only pay one card rental each instead of two).


----------



## klj

wasn't sure where to dump this so i figured i would try here. i have a tivo hd and the "fios prime hd" package. i upgraded to the "fios extreme hd" package to get more of the sports stations. 

my question is do i need to run setup again or just sit back and wait to get the additional stations?


----------



## innocentfreak

klj said:


> wasn't sure where to dump this so i figured i would try here. i have a tivo hd and the "fios prime hd" package. i upgraded to the "fios extreme hd" package to get more of the sports stations.
> 
> my question is do i need to run setup again or just sit back and wait to get the additional stations?


Once the CableCARD gets authorized you will be fine as long as the channels are checked under the channel settings on TiVo.


----------



## aaronwt

billys9319 said:


> I tried 6 S-Cards and all would not pair but when Verizon shipped a M-Card by mistake it paired right away. I now have two M-cards and both are paired. Looks like Verizon S-Card will not pair for some reason.


The old S cards used to work. I used to have eight of them from FiOS. WIth six of them in my three S3(OLED) boxes I had at the time and two in a TiVoHD. But at some point I changed them all out to M-cards.


----------



## billys9319

I could get all the channels with the S-cards but for 131 which means they were not paired correctly and would stop working in August. I could only get 2 M-Cards to pair correctly in my Series 3 Tivo.


----------



## PatMcNJ

Hi all. Thinking of finally dumping Cablevision for FIOS..... 

I have some stupid questions, so bear with me. Will FIOS mean I no longer have to deal with hooking up a tuning adaptor to get some stations? (not even connected now, it is tricky to get working and I had to get a new Tivo(Elite!) a few months back, and have not bothered with it yet). I think I STILL did not get some stations, even with the Tuning adaptor, but who cares I guess.

Second, can you get on Demand programming using the Tivo with FIOS? Could not get it with Cablevision, without the cable box.

Last, I have the Apple airport router, I love it, just so flawless. I have to ditch that and use Verizons router? I read this thread and so mention of ways to use both routers, but I did not understand the posts, too technical for me.

I asked the Verizon rep some of these questions, over the phone, and I could sense his eyes glazing over, and face going blank as soon as I said "Cable Cards". He kept offering me a "free" Fios DVR, and I kept saying I did NOT want one. I have an Elite, Series 3 (just repaired by Weaknees), and a couple of Series 2s, and 3 of them have lifetime service).

THANKS for your responses in advance. I have the Optimum service, and one thing I would miss is watching live TV on my iPhone and iPad, it is pretty cool....


----------



## wkearney99

FIOS needs no tuning adapters.

No, you cannot currently use FIOS VOD with a Tivo. 

If you're not using any FIOS set top boxes then, yes you can use your Airport instead. If you need to use any FIOS boxes then you WILL have to use their router. But there are various ways to configure things to allow continued use with your Airport.


----------



## jtkohl

Anybody done tests to see which channels now have CCI restrictions on them, after the pairing deadline has passed?


----------



## rage777

PatMcNJ said:


> Last, I have the Apple airport router, I love it, just so flawless. I have to ditch that and use Verizons router? I read this thread and so mention of ways to use both routers, but I did not understand the posts, too technical for me.





wkearney99 said:


> If you're not using any FIOS set top boxes then, yes you can use your Airport instead. If you need to use any FIOS boxes then you WILL have to use their router. But there are various ways to configure things to allow continued use with your Airport.


wkearney99 is correct, but that is the one thing I really love about the Fios Actiontec routers - MoCA. Having an older home, this is the best way to get network capability to all my computers and Tivos. The Actiontec routers are pretty cheap and it is easy to setup the MoCA.


----------



## wmcbrine

jtkohl said:


> Anybody done tests to see which channels now have CCI restrictions on them, after the pairing deadline has passed?


None yet, here. See here for updates:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=489184


----------



## cyberbeach

When I go to any HBO channel on my LR Tivo Series 3, it shows the Activate cable card screen / clear to exit. The BR no problem.

I called FIOS. 30 minutes waiting on hold.

The Verizon support rep said that his "documentation" shows that Series 3 is no longer compatible with HBO. He said that, not me.

He supposedly pushed a cable-card refresh but I see no changes.

Verizon originally took several days and hours of my time to get HBO to work with my M-card.


----------



## SoBayJake

cyberbeach said:


> When I go to any HBO channel on my LR Tivo Series 3, it shows the Activate cable card screen / clear to exit. The BR no problem.
> 
> I called FIOS. 30 minutes waiting on hold.
> 
> The Verizon support rep said that his "documentation" shows that Series 3 is no longer compatible with HBO. He said that, not me.
> 
> He supposedly pushed a cable-card refresh but I see no changes.
> 
> Verizon originally took several days and hours of my time to get HBO to work with my M-card.


Did they ask for the Host ID, etc? If not, the cards aren't paired, and they need to be re-paired. Just pushing a refresh won't do anything if things aren't in the system right.


----------



## cyberbeach

SoBayJake said:


> Did they ask for the Host ID, etc? If not, the cards aren't paired, and they need to be re-paired. Just pushing a refresh won't do anything if things aren't in the system right.


In the back of my mind, I knew that they are idiots who don't know their own system and that I would have to come here, research the issue, and then call back and tell them what to do.

<flame on>
Some kind of stupid optimism made my call them first. Maybe it's because of the hours and hours and hours it took to get this card paired up in the first place 3 years ago.

I'm just tired of having to do this. But I guess I'll do it one more time. I won't be crying when Apple sends Tivo to join RIM and relegates Verizon to a commodity fiber-rental service.
<flame off>

Sincerely appreciate your help. I will call them again tomorrow night and politely instruct them to do what I have learned here needs to be done. Thanks.


----------



## cyberbeach

I called them back.

When I got to the part where the computer says, "state your problem", I said, "cable card needs to be re-paired".

To my total amazement, the computer then said, "If your screen is blank or you see a cable card activation screen, say yes". I said yes. Then it asked me if I wanted to re-activate my card!

It prompted for the cablecard id on the tv where I have no problem, so I said "skip it", and then it prompted for the cablecard id on the tv with the problem. I entered the host id and then the data id. Strangely, it asked for both again, and I entered them both again. 

It then said that it would reactivate within 30 minutes.

We'll see...


----------



## cyberbeach

It worked! Got HBO channels back.

The trick for me is to use the automated system - it's much smarter than the human tech support reps, who told me that Series 3 wouldn't work with HBO anymore and I should call Tivo.


----------



## wmcbrine

Here's probably why they would think that: They seem to be incapable (based on my own experience and multiple reports) of pairing single-stream cards in their system (not that it can't be done, just that it doesn't fit into their procedures), AND they have the idea (based on some conversations with techs) that the original Series 3 will only take single-stream cards (as opposed to the truth, that it will take multi-stream cards but only operate them in single-stream mode).


----------



## wkearney99

cyberbeach said:


> The trick for me is to use the automated system - it's much smarter than the human tech support reps...


When I've used similar menus with other companies the escalation seemed to work better too. As in, the menus would get to a point where it'd give up and pass you to a rep. Those reps generally seemed better at solving the problem. That's a lot less stressful than the usual hassle of trying to convince the tier 1 rep they don't know WTF they're talking about and to escalate the call...


----------



## Distortedloop

cyberbeach said:


> I'm just tired of having to do this. But I guess I'll do it one more time. I won't be crying when Apple sends Tivo to join RIM and relegates Verizon to a commodity fiber-rental service.


I dread that day, if it ever comes. Apple's already shown hints of their true colors in many ways; they'll be just as tyrannical, if not more so, than Verizon, and no better for the "advanced" consumer than TiVo or other options. Apple wants 100% control of your device, they'll tell you how you can and can't use it, and they'll limit its features to the 80%.


----------



## wkearney99

Distortedloop said:


> I dread that day, if it ever comes. Apple's already shown hints of their true colors in many ways; they'll be just as tyrannical, if not more so, than Verizon, and no better for the "advanced" consumer than TiVo or other options. Apple wants 100% control of your device, they'll tell you how you can and can't use it, and they'll limit its features to the 80%.


Exactly right. Far better to have diversity of choices rather than getting stuck with a single vendor.


----------



## NismoRR

I've got the problem of no HBO/Cinemax channels on my S3 with two S cablecards. Been unsuccessfully dealing with V* for a week. Yesterday they finally decided to replace the two S cards with one M card. Is this the right solution? I've been reading prior posts and it's a bit confusing but it sounds like the S3 might need TWO M cards. Just trying to make sure I'm getting the right info which will fix this issue. Thanks!


----------



## L David Matheny

NismoRR said:


> I've got the problem of no HBO/Cinemax channels on my S3 with two S cablecards. Been unsuccessfully dealing with V* for a week. Yesterday they finally decided to replace the two S cards with one M card. Is this the right solution? I've been reading prior posts and it's a bit confusing but it sounds like the S3 might need TWO M cards. Just trying to make sure I'm getting the right info which will fix this issue. Thanks!


If yours is an original OLED S3, then (from what I've read here) it will indeed require two M cards. A TiVo HD would require only one M card.


----------



## wkearney99

If you have a Tivo HD you can use one M card (I have two set up that way). But if you have an actual Series 3 TCD648250B then you need two cards; they can be either S or M type. The other models in the 'series 3' can use either a single M card or two S cards. It's just the TCD648250B that required two physical cards; one for each tuner.


----------



## NismoRR

Thanks for the fast replies. Indeed I have an S3. I also have a Tivo HD with one M card and thought that's all I needed for the S3 as well. Oops. Now I have to deal with another call to V* later. Always eventful and and time consuming. Appreciate the help.


----------



## V7Goose

NismoRR said:


> I've got the problem of no HBO/Cinemax channels on my S3 with two S cablecards. Been unsuccessfully dealing with V* for a week. Yesterday they finally decided to replace the two S cards with one M card. Is this the right solution? I've been reading prior posts and it's a bit confusing but it sounds like the S3 might need TWO M cards. Just trying to make sure I'm getting the right info which will fix this issue. Thanks!


As others have already mentioned, the original OLED S3 units must have two cable cards (of either type). Your problem is simply that the cards are not paired properly.

When I got the original letter from Verizon, I tested channel 131 and had no problem, so I threw the letter away and forgot about it. But when they started the copy protection, I lost HBO & Max on all my cable cards (one S3 with 2 S cards, one HD with an M card and one TV). The fools at Verizon just dismissed my suggestion that they needed to be properly paired - after about four hours or more on the phone with no success, they got approval to send a tech out. He knew there was nothing he could do on site, but spent a couple more hours on the phone with his boss trying to figure out what was wrong. When he finally decided to try and re-pair the cards as I suggested, the problem was solved.

I have seen another post that said someone had great success just using their automated help system to re-pair the cards. Personally, I absolutely refuse to speak to the automated voice response systems for any reason whatsoever - I will happily cancel my subscription before I do that. But if you don't despise them as much as I do, that might be a really good option to try. Good luck.


----------



## NismoRR

V7Goose said:


> When I got the original letter from Verizon, I tested channel 131 and had no problem, so I threw the letter away and forgot about it. But when they started the copy protection, I lost HBO & Max on all my cable cards (one S3 with 2 S cards, one HD with an M card and one TV). The fools at Verizon just dismissed my suggestion that they needed to be properly paired - after about four hours or more on the phone with no success, they got approval to send a tech out. He knew there was nothing he could do on site, but spent a couple more hours on the phone with his boss trying to figure out what was wrong. When he finally decided to try and re-pair the cards as I suggested, the problem was solved.
> 
> I have seen another post that said someone had great success just using their automated help system to re-pair the cards. Personally, I absolutely refuse to speak to the automated voice response systems for any reason whatsoever - I will happily cancel my subscription before I do that. But if you don't despise them as much as I do, that might be a really good option to try. Good luck.


Goose, thanks for this. I'll tell ya, I never got any letter from Verizon, at least that I remember. Like you, I'm not a fan of ANY automated system, but I'll say this, the V* customer service people STILL have no idea what they're talking about concerning cablecards. I can't believe how uninformed they are. I think I started Tivo service with FIOS about five years ago, and they were clueless then, at the beginning which 'maybe' could be somewhat understandable at the time. I ordered another M card just now (sounds like I might not even need them) but the first thing the CSR said is that "HBO doesn't work with cablecards."  Then I explained what I thought was the issue, telling her "S cards are the problem and that people using M cards have no issue." Like I said I have a Tivo HD with 1 M card with no problems and told her so. She checked some stuff and then agreed with me. Lots of misinformation which helps none of us.

I say all this because I basically have no faith in the tech support at V*. I had spoken a "tech" about this problem, and we was the one that said the S cards are the problem. He tried to DEACTIVATE my S cards with the hope of reactivating them, but was unsuccessful. I assume re-pairing the cards is a different endeavor, and would think the tech would be able to suggest it, as you just did. Obviously, I'm not the only one having this issue.

SO...even though I can't stand automated assistance, I think that voice support is WORSE. That's ridiculous for a customer to think. I may just try the automated route and see what happens. Ch 131 works fine for me.


----------



## wmcbrine

V7Goose said:


> I lost HBO & Max on all my cable cards (one S3 with 2 S cards, one HD with an M card and one TV). ... When he finally decided to try and re-pair the cards as I suggested, the problem was solved.


So, you're saying you actually have S cards that are successfully paired? Are you sure about that? If so, I think you're the first to report that.


----------



## V7Goose

wmcbrine said:


> So, you're saying you actually have S cards that are successfully paired? Are you sure about that? If so, I think you're the first to report that.


Absolutely. I have three different S cards that are successfully paired - two in an S3 and one in a Sony TV. I originally had four S cards (two in the S3, two in the HD). About two years ago I had Verizon replace all of them with M cards, just so I would have more options in the future at the same price. BUT, neither the S3 nor the Sony TV would receive premium channels on unpared M cards, so I had them come back out the next day and put the original S cards back in. That was much easier than trying to wait for them to figure out how to get the new M cards working. I never had a problem with the M card in my HD box (at least not until they started the copy protection!), so I still ended up with the extra card for the TV at no additional cost.

When they started the copy protection a few weeks ago, I lost HBO and Max on all four of the cards - the fix was exactly the same for each of them - just proper pairing.

If you are really interested, you can do some searching on this forum - I reported back then about not being able to get my S3 to work with M cards at all.
Goose


----------



## fmagic

I am trying to activate a new TivoHD with Verizon FIOS CableCard (MCard) and having a lot of trouble... I get to the point on the Conditional Access screen where it shows "Con:Yes EBCP:Yes Val:? 0x01, but can't get any further with Verizon. They've de-activated and re-activated this CableCARD several times without any progress. We did try swapping the CableCards between systems (I have multiple TiVo's) and they can get the cards working in the other TivoHD's, but not this particular one. I don't see anything further on the conditional access screen on this problem unit, but the other TivoHD's show a lot more lines of information. Any ideas what is going on? TiVo offered to do a 3-way call with Verizon, but my hopes are not high based on past experience getting cards activated with Verizon.


----------



## cyberbeach

Distortedloop said:


> I dread that day, if it ever comes. Apple's already shown hints of their true colors in many ways; they'll be just as tyrannical, if not more so, than Verizon, and no better for the "advanced" consumer than TiVo or other options. Apple wants 100% control of your device, they'll tell you how you can and can't use it, and they'll limit its features to the 80%.


I was ranting - sorry about the comment - I love Tivo - just bit the bullet and bought one XL 4, probably get more soon...


----------



## headless chicken

Anyone have some luck with Verizon only charging for one cable card for their S3? It sucks to have to pay for two when they're for the same device.

If only there were some kind of software update that could make the Series3 capable of dual tuner functionality with only one cable card. <sigh>


----------



## Johncv

headless chicken said:


> Anyone have some luck with Verizon only charging for one cable card for their S3? It sucks to have to pay for two when they're for the same device.
> 
> If only there were some kind of software update that could make the Series3 capable of dual tuner functionality with only one cable card. <sigh>


By S3 I take you're referring to the OLD display TiVo with SS cards? Sorry I dont think any software update can change a SS card slot to a MS card slot. Not sure it even possible to hack it and install a MS card slot.


----------



## headless chicken

Johncv said:


> By S3 I take you're referring to the OLD display TiVo with SS cards? Sorry I dont think any software update can change a SS card slot to a MS card slot. Not sure it even possible to hack it and install a MS card slot.


Yes, what other Series3 is there?


----------



## Ilene

Because the S3 needs 2 cards if you want to be able to tune to 2 different cable channels (doesn't matter if they are single or the newer multi stream) Verizon charges you for both because they see it as 2 pieces of equipment. I have rented 2 cards for 6 years (without the ability to actually purchase them). 
I have just purchased the Premiere Elite and will be either retiring or using the S3 with one cc and also OTA. Haven't made up my mind yet.


----------



## unitron

headless chicken said:


> Yes, what other Series3 is there?


The original S3, the one with the OLED display, is the TCD648250.

The next two Series 3 platform models were the HD (the TCD652160), and the identical looking HD XL (the TCD 658000).


----------



## Johncv

unitron said:


> The original S3, the one with the OLED display, is the TCD648250.
> 
> The next two Series 3 platform models were the HD (the TCD652160), and the identical looking HD XL (the TCD 658000).


Thank you,  I do have to agree that OLED display was one sweet box too bad TiVo could not carry it over to the other boxes due to cost.


----------



## headless chicken

unitron said:


> The original S3, the one with the OLED display, is the TCD648250.
> 
> The next two Series 3 platform models were the HD (the TCD652160), and the identical looking HD XL (the TCD 658000).


Oh right. Its Series3 to me is synonymous with the beautiful OLED display. I forgot the Tivo HD and HD XL are also technically third generation. IMHO, the original S3 with an upgraded HD is the only way to go.



Ilene said:


> I have just purchased the Premiere Elite and will be either retiring or using the S3 with one cc and also OTA. Haven't made up my mind yet.


I pulled the trigger on a Premiere Elite when it was $311 a couple of weeks ago at electronics-expo.com. I thought it was a clearance sale to get rid of the Elites but it I actually received the rebranded XL4. I returned the unit after a week because the Premiere XL4 looks and feels like a downgrade from the Series3.

I'm much happier with my upgraded 1TB Series3 with Lifetime. It may not have 4 tuners or be able to record 300 HD hrs (I can always upgrade the drive again), but the interface is much better, there is an LCD clock display that shows you what is recording, the search function is much faster and 30 second skip works.


----------



## aaronwt

The S3 has an LCD display? 

Sent from my HTC ReZound using Forum Runner


----------



## unitron

aaronwt said:


> The S3 has an LCD display?
> 
> Sent from my HTC ReZound using Forum Runner


Apparently headless chicken is a spring chicken and not old enough to remember that before Liquid Crystal Diode time displays there were similar looking Light Emitting Diode displays, which I suspect the Organic Light Emitting Diode array of the S3 has.


----------



## headless chicken

aaronwt said:


> The S3 has an LCD display?
> 
> Sent from my HTC ReZound using Forum Runner


Typo. You can see I initially refer to the display as OLED.

I love having the time visible too, which was conspicuously absent on the Premiere Elite. Its the only clock in my living room.


----------



## Johncv

headless chicken said:


> Typo. You can see I initially refer to the display as OLED.
> 
> I love having the time visible too, which was conspicuously absent on the Premiere Elite. Its the only clock in my living room.


You could hang a clock on your wall.  I have a nice big one that set itself to the atomic clock.


----------



## headless chicken

Johncv said:


> You could hang a clock on your wall.  I have a nice big one that set itself to the atomic clock.


I've got original artwork on all my walls. I'd rather not have an obtrusive and ugly clock, thank you.


----------



## dgbretz

I have a Series 3 with OLED display with 2 FIOS cablecards. I got the letter referenced above a while back and came here concerned about whether I would lose channels. The general consensus was that I didn't need to worry about it since I didn't have premium channels, especially if I could 'see' channel 131.

I checked channel 131 and it worked fine...still does. No worries at the time...

Today, there is a free HBO/Cinemax weekend so I figured I would Tivo a bunch of movies like I usually do. However, all the HBO/Cinemax movies show me the cablecard screen with a quasi-error message that says:
The Cablecard considers the host to have only one-way RF capability.

I tried re-pairing the cards through automated voice system and that does not appear to have worked.

I have a plain jane free digital adapter on an upstairs TV and I'm getting the free preview up there just fine.

Any suggestions?


----------



## aaronwt

dgbretz said:


> I have a Series 3 with OLED display with 2 FIOS cablecards. I got the letter referenced above a while back and came here concerned about whether I would lose channels. The general consensus was that I didn't need to worry about it since I didn't have premium channels, especially if I could 'see' channel 131.
> 
> I checked channel 131 and it worked fine...still does. No worries at the time...
> 
> Today, there is a free HBO/Cinemax weekend so I figured I would Tivo a bunch of movies like I usually do. However, all the HBO/Cinemax movies show me the cablecard screen with a quasi-error message that says:
> The Cablecard considers the host to have only one-way RF capability.
> 
> I tried re-pairing the cards through automated voice system and that does not appear to have worked.
> 
> I have a plain jane free digital adapter on an upstairs TV and I'm getting the free preview up there just fine.
> 
> Any suggestions?


You could potentially lose 22 channels in a few weeks when FiOS switches them from MPEG2 to MPEG4. Since the Series 3 boxes don't work with MPEG4 channels. Well they can work with a software update, but since the S3 hasn't been made in years it's unlikely that they would put out an update.


----------



## SoBayJake

dgbretz said:


> I have a Series 3 with OLED display with 2 FIOS cablecards. I got the letter referenced above a while back and came here concerned about whether I would lose channels. The general consensus was that I didn't need to worry about it since I didn't have premium channels, especially if I could 'see' channel 131.
> 
> I checked channel 131 and it worked fine...still does. No worries at the time...
> 
> Today, there is a free HBO/Cinemax weekend so I figured I would Tivo a bunch of movies like I usually do. However, all the HBO/Cinemax movies show me the cablecard screen with a quasi-error message that says:
> The Cablecard considers the host to have only one-way RF capability.
> 
> I tried re-pairing the cards through automated voice system and that does not appear to have worked.
> 
> I have a plain jane free digital adapter on an upstairs TV and I'm getting the free preview up there just fine.
> 
> Any suggestions?


I tried the automated system and didn't work. I tried the chat system and that worked.


----------



## dgbretz

Do you know what the chat did that was different?


----------



## SoBayJake

dgbretz said:


> Do you know what the chat did that was different?


No clue. They both asked for the same information. It was late, and I could have mistyped something.


----------



## dgbretz

double post...


----------



## dgbretz

Hmmmm...I wish I knew what they did but after an hour on the phone it is working. The person I was actually talking to was working with 'Level 3' support.

I've seen the list of channels that are being switched to MPEG4 and figured it wasn't a big deal. I know I'm using old equipment.

I'm disappointed but not surprised by the level of support Tivo has provided for the Series3.


----------



## wkearney99

One tip I've found helps, make a copy of the cablecard's ID numbers and make sure they jibe with the numbers you see on the screen. And make the copy 200% larger so you can actually read the tiny type on there. That and make sure you're not transposing zeros with letter O characters. My suprizon rep made that mistake when setting ours up originally.

Otherwise you're stuck dealing with the demonstrably incompetent ways some local cable operations handle pairing the cards.


----------



## dgbretz

I did have to repeat the Cablecard info over the phone at least 10 times. I had actually given up after being on the phone about 30 minutes. I figured I would just have to repeat the whole guided setup if I ever wanted to see any premium channel content.

One take away for me from this is that it appears the channel 131 test to see if your cablecards are properly paired does not work in all cases...


----------



## am95

For the last several months I only had one cable card that I switched between two boxes. I did this about once a week and at first it was a breeze with the automated phone system but that stopped working so then I had to start calling in which became a nightmare. Your either going to get someone who knows exactly what they are doing or someone who doesn't have a clue in which case it will never get resolved. They'll tell you that a new card is needed or they need to send someone out. If this happens hang up and talk to someone else. 

If you think this is something you might have to do in the near future after you get it resolved, I'd recommend asking the competent tech support person to make notes of what exactly they did and giving you the reference number if case you have to call back and end up with someone that's clueless.


----------



## wkearney99

I wouldn't expect the socket used for the cablecard to hold up to regular insert/removal efforts. Those pins in there are pretty fragile. Yeah, it "ought to" be able to withstand a fair number of them, but I doubt anybody actually expects that to happen. And when the socket goes, so does the device. Just how much of a bargain is it to swap the cards around and call in all the time?


----------



## SoBayJake

dgbretz said:


> Any suggestions?


Do the online chat or call.


----------



## GmanTiVo

SoBayJake said:


> Do the online chat or call.


Sorry for the dumb & lazy question, what # are you guys calling in and what "online chat" are you referring to?

I need to re-pair my 2 S3 OLED FIOS singlestream cable cards.

I have never gone to the FIOS website nor have had to call since the initial install in 2007.

Thanks,

Gman


----------



## SoBayJake

GmanTiVo said:


> Sorry for the dumb & lazy question, what # are you guys calling in and what "online chat" are you referring to?
> 
> I need to re-pair my 2 S3 OLED FIOS singlestream cable cards.
> 
> I have never gone to the FIOS website nor have had to call since the initial install in 2007.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Gman


Verizon Fiber Solutions Center 1-800-VERIZON (1-800-837-4966)

Chat from here: http://www22.verizon.com/support/residential/index.htm
(select TV, the issue, etc)


----------



## GmanTiVo

SoBayJake said:


> Verizon Fiber Solutions Center 1-800-VERIZON (1-800-837-4966)
> 
> Chat from here: http://www22.verizon.com/support/residential/index.htm
> (select TV, the issue, etc)


ty!

So, called in around noon on Saturday and armed with all the helpful posts here and in other threads I had the Tech Support guy speak to the CableCard group, do a "manual validation", (gave him all the S cablecard info needed) but after waiting 30 min. nada.

I just bit the bullet, drove 10min. to the VZ shop, got 2 M cards, and swapped out the S cards, called to 1) activate (automatic phone service), waited 60min. then 2) called back to speak to Tech Support to do a "manual validation", gave all the M card info and was told the process could take a couple of hours (it is 7pm by now). Went out to dinner and forgot to check that evening.

The next morning I promptly checked ch 131 and all the HBOs (900s and 400s) and all working perfectly! 

Thanks all, hope every S3 OLED owner like myself can be successful like myself with M cards.

Note: my Data # did not change during the process as reported by some.

Also a shout out to Chrisentia, aka "Lady Boss", who overseas all the North NJ VZ stores and Carlos "da man who knows it all" in the rte 17 N. VZ store for once again making my visit to VZ a nice and short one. :up:

Gman


----------



## humm

I have had very good luck when actually speaking with a verizon fios service person on the phone - surprisingly very helpful. This was not an issue with my Tivo, though - the S3 was great with FIOS.


----------



## RichardnVA

I have a Series 3 and use it with Verizon Fios without any problems.


----------



## wmcbrine

With Fios CableCards going up to $5 each in August, and with my overall Fios bill having gone up 12% in two months, I think it might be time for my OLED S3 to retire to OTA-only.


----------



## real_goose

I recently installed an M card from Ebay in my S3 HD. Now I have guide data for all the clear QAM stations on my local FiOS system. I mainly use the HD for OTA, but there are several QAM channels I was also watching. The addition of guide data makes me very happy.

Although it is claimed to be common knowledge, I learned about it in the last week from another thread: www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=465274


----------



## teasip

Quick and excellent experience via chat with regard to finally pairing an M card with the TiVo HD this morning. Took about 10". Value no longer "?" in the CC conditional access screen.


----------



## Bytez

real_goose said:


> I recently installed an M card from Ebay in my S3 HD. Now I have guide data for all the clear QAM stations on my local FiOS system. I mainly use the HD for OTA, but there are several QAM channels I was also watching. The addition of guide data makes me very happy.
> 
> Although it is claimed to be common knowledge, I learned about it in the last week from another thread: www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=465274


I thought you have to rent a cablecard from Verizon for it to work? I rather buy one if that's not the case.


----------



## wmcbrine

Bytez said:


> I thought you have to rent a cablecard from Verizon for it to work? I rather buy one if that's not the case.


Read what you quoted again... The eBay card just gets you mapping of the _clear_ (unencrypted) QAM channels (basically just the locals). You can already tune these with no card at all, but they're kind of useless that way on a TiVo, since the guide data doesn't match up. An eBay card fixes that.

But if you want your TiVo to receive all the normal cable channels that you're subscribed to, then (unless you subscribe to the locals-only package) you have to rent the card from Verizon, yes.


----------



## real_goose

Bytez said:


> I thought you have to rent a cablecard from Verizon for it to work? I rather buy one if that's not the case.


Actually it turns out you do need a cablecard from Verizon to get started. The disk died in my HD with the Ebay cablecard. I used a disk with a new image and was surprised when the HD could not pull channels with cablecard that had been in it for years.

But then I figured it out - I put an authorized cablecard in first to pull the channel mapping and then put the Ebay card back in. Verizon cards don't need pairing except for HBO (and perhaps some other premiums) which I don't have.

Now I again have guide data for the clear QAM channels I can receive on my HD. I had to go delete all the other channels the authorized card mapped, since I can't receive those channels. But my experience is that that any changes in channels from Verizon get added to the HD with the Ebay card. Periodically I need to go in and remove the majority of added channels I can't receive. (Curious to see what happens next month when Frontier takes over.)


----------



## Old_Drums

Speaking of Frontier, anyone know what their support phone number is? I got the letter saying they were taking over, but it had no contact information.


----------



## real_goose

real_goose said:


> But my experience is that that any changes in channels from Verizon get added to the HD with the Ebay card. Periodically I need to go in and remove the majority of added channels I can't receive. (Curious to see what happens next month when Frontier takes over.)


So far, no problems with Frontier FiOS. The Ebay cablecard is still working and receiving channel updates.


----------



## Merrick2019

Hi All,

Hoping for help with a problem. A few weeks ago one of my two identical TiVo Series 3 HDs, side by side, stopped receiving many channels. Verizon FiOS. Most premium channels subscribed (probably all?). Many HD and some premium channels tuning, many not. The other TiVo Series 3 still running perfectly. The TiVo Roamio Pro in another room also working perfectly. Got on the phone to reset cablecards (two M cards in this box, two S cards in the box that works correctly). Got one M card working correctly and the other still with the problem tuning some premium channels but not others. So they declared the single M card is the problem and sent me a new M Card - replaced it and activated it - same behavior. So on the phone again, many attempts to reset. Phone tech had me eject and reseat cards. Had me swap cards. Reboot. Many attempts. Now NEITHER card tunes all channels. So I schedule a tech to come out. While I'm waiting for the tech to come the OTHER Series 3 starts behaving EXACTLY the same way later that week.

Tech came out. Checked signal - fine. Installed two new M Cards in the first box with the problem - the one that originally had M cards - and nothing. He activates the cards and they tune some but not all channels. Tuning enough premium channels that the Tech says, "that proves the cards are activated - I can check the signal, I can make sure the cards are activated - that's all Verizon can do - after that it's up to you." He claims my two Series 3 TiVos just failed in an identical way at almost exactly the same time and that's just the way it is.

I am skeptical. One failing like that, sure. But they both now tune EXACTLY the same channels and don't tune EXACTLY the same channels after all of Verizon's mucking around and resetting cards and switches. Now, to be fair, the Roamio has never hiccuped the whole time - so anything wrong on the Verizon side would have to be affecting only the Series 3 boxes. Also - this is not an MPEG4 problem - there are some MPEG4 channels I cannot decode, but there are only a few on FiOS and also there were these periods where one Series 3 was working perfectly and the other not so much.

So here's my question - does anyone know enough about Verizon's side of the equation that this could be a screwed up setting on their side and can you explain it to me so that I can try to call a tech to fix the problem?

I have had them screw up my internet settings multiple times, argued for them to do the appropriate reset on their side, always unsuccessfully, they send a tech out to replaced "failed equipment", he puts in a new ONT and new battery, reboots, same problem, calls to have Verizon settings rest back at the center, now it works, and I get new equipment out of the deal - but had to be home and had no internet for a few days waiting. It can be amazingly frustrating. But I just don't know enough about the cable side to be sure it could or could not be them.

Any thoughts?

Thanks for any suggestions!
Merrick


----------



## wkearney99

I haven't had an S3 on Fios for a while. Might it be a channel encoding issue? I can't recall, is there a way to have the Tivo show you current video signal codec data? Are there codecs the S3 are known not to be able to handle, that the Roamio will?


----------



## Merrick2019

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the suggestion. Like I said, though, the Series 3 is known to be unable to decode MPEG4 (Roamio does) but that's not the problem here. As I explained, the problem first started with one Series 3 tuning all channels (excepts MPEG4) perfectly and the other not. Working with the phone tech one of the two decoders in the malfunctioning TiVo started working correctly again - so three separate tuners out of four in two Series 3s decoding all channels (except MPEG4) and one tuner not. Then over the course of the next two weeks (and lots of mucking around by Verizon) all four tuners now fail to decode many channels. If it was an encoding issue there could never be a situation where some cards can decode channels that other cards cannot.

Thanks again,
Merrick


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## bicker

I recently had to swap out my replacement 1TB drive from my S3 for its original drive. That makes me wonder what the ravages of time might be wreaking on other hardware in the S3.


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## Merrick2019

I certainly don't rule out the possibility of hardware failure, but both TiVos in very rapid succession - failing while Verizon is having me swap cards, do reboots, and flipping switches on their end? And it still makes exceptionally little sense, to me at least, why the TiVos all, for instance, tune every HD channel on the DC Metro lineup from 503/The CW to 533/WJAL local inspirational channel then won't decode the next channel up 550/USA and pretty much everything above that.

Perhaps someone knows about channel groupings and there's information in there that might explain what I'm seeing, but the boxes are decoding plenty of 1080i content, they just stop decoding channels at about 550 and everything above that. It's the nearly simultaneous failures and the otherwise identical failure (after FiOS mucked around) that has me suspicious, and I was just hoping someone had an idea.

Just for additional information - I think I've changed the hard drives in these each three times. Once almost immediately to expand to the Series 3 max at release, then once later when one drive started failing in one I swapped both out for good measure, then when "vitamin k" finally hit I maxed the drives out one more time. So the drives should be good. And I've taken care of the leaky capacitor problem on both as well. As you say any hardware can fail. That's Verizon's contention, for sure.

Oh - also, one TiVo has two S cards and the other has two M cards because they are significantly different vintage. The TiVo with two S cards was purchased pretty much when the Series 3 was released and S cards is all there was and the second TiVo was purchased a couple of years later when M cards were out. So it seems a little odd again that they failed at almost exactly the same time.

Thanks again!


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## HerronScott

Can you confirm that you have 2 S3 OLED (TCD648250)? I assume so since you mention needing 2 CableCARDS and not being able to receive MPEG4 channels but want to make sure.

What happens on the channels that you are not receiving? Any error messages? If you go into DVR Diagnostics, what's the Signal strength information and Video PID information for the channels you are not receiving?

We don't have any CableCARDs in our S3 OLED so not sure which screen should show the pairing information (plus we have Cisco/SA and I think FIOS uses Motorola).

Scott


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## Merrick2019

Yes. S3 OLED. Cannot decode MPEG4 (which is perhaps five channels on FiOS).
There are varied responses - some channels simply give grey screen - others pull up the cable card error screen that says, "

For instance, all of these cards now successfully decode channels 532/WHUT PBS HD and 533 WJAL SonLife HD. The next two channels are 550/USA HD and 552/TBS HD. Those simply give gray screen. After those is 553/FX HD and that throws the cable card error screen. After that some give simple gray screen and some give the cable error screen. And of course we're talking about four separate cable cards here, so I gathered information across that range of channels for one card.

532/WHUT PBS HD (successfully tuned)
513000kHz
QAM 256
Signal Strength 86
Signal Lock Yes
Program Lock Yes
SNR 34 dB
Video PID 0x439 (unknown)

533/WJAL SonLife HD (successfully tuned)
531000kHz
QAM 256
Signal Strength 86
Signal Lock Yes
Program Lock Yes
SNR 34 dB
Video PID 0x515 (unknown)

550/USA HD (not tuned, gray screen only)
135000kHz
QAM 256
Signal Strength 50
Signal Lock Yes
Program Lock Yes
SNR 28 dB
Video PID 0x19C9 (unknown)

552/TBS HD (not tuned, gray screen only)
567000kHz
QAM 256
Signal Strength 90
Signal Lock Yes
Program Lock Yes
SNR 35 dB
Video PID 0x1AB9 (unknown)

553/FX HD (not tuned, cable card error message)
291000kHz
QAM 256
Signal Strength 81
Signal Lock Yes
Program Lock Yes
SNR 33 dB
Video PID 0x1C67 (unknown)

Channel 550/USA HD looks too weak and does report corrected frames. 552 and 553 look perfectly good, report no corrected frames, they look like they should be decoding. I just don't get it. That's part of why I'm finding it hard to believe the TiVOs have a problem.

Any thought?

Thanks!
Merrick


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## sender_name

Similar Grey screen issue here in Massachusetts and I was trying just now to see if there is any way for the Tivo series 3 to tell me if it's an MPEG 4 channel.. I started another thread but was reading through this one and saw your issue. They really are helpless as at no point did they mention the mpeg 4 mpeg 2 issue which should have been an immediate thought for a series 3. I have 2 of them with lifetimes and if I can't get local channels there is no point. Maybe I can get some OTA antennas to see if that works..


sender_name said:


> So here is my issue...
> I have a Series 3.
> I am on Fios TV massachusetts. Wednesday night around midnight I think they did an Emergency broadcast test...fine whatever, not what I would focus on... The tivo did the usual kick you out to live programming so you can see the emergency.
> 
> Well ever since that I have not been able to get any HD channels on frequencies 573,000 (502,511,546,514,518,521) or 495,000 (510,504,508,509,505). Those channels show a grey screen only. No prompt for subscription or anything. These are all the LOCAL HD affiliated channels, NBC, ABC, CBS etc.
> The DVR Diagnostic shows 100% signal with no corruptions or fixes.
> I borrowed another (EXACT same model) Series 3 tivo from someone in town on the same Fios and their tivo also doesn't get the channels, but did get all THEIR channels...
> I have had 2 new cards installed.
> Tech replaced the ONT with a new Gigabit one
> 
> Two of the channels are greyed out but have audio...
> They are baffled as to what might be causing this. Verizon is at the point where they have scheduled another follow up to plug in some equipment here to test the actual channels but since they've had no other complaints they think it's something specific with the Series 3 tivo. I wouldn't be surprised to find if I the last series 3 tivo in my town


Ha...

And a bizarre thing which contradicts any MPEG 4 issues is for 2 channels, 518 and one other...I get audio only and if I leave it paused I will eventually get picture too but have no ability to rewind/pause just a play triangle overlays with no buffering. If I "live tv" to the other tuner and then back to 518 the picture is gone again..


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## Merrick2019

I am even more convinced this is a game that Verizon is playing. My third TiVo - a Roamio Pro - just developed the IDENTICAL problem today. I was unable to get anyone who can do anything for real on the phone because Verizon pretty much only provides reasonable service between 9 and 5, but the tech I got saw that my service had been suspended. Don't have any idea what that is all about - will have to wait until tomorrow to rectify it - but the tech said my problem is because my account is suspended. Here's the thing - I'm sending this message over my FiOS internet connection - which is working just fine thank you very much - and I am still getting all DC FiOS channels 533 and below even though my account is supposedly suspended - and NO channels ABOVE 533 - EXACTLY like what has been going on on the two Series 3's I wrote about two months ago. When my account is suspended?

They obviously have a variety of switches they can throw and whatever switch they threw didn't effect my internet or my phone at all and only affected half of my cable channels - JUST LIKE TWO MONTHS AGO.

This is REALLY aggravating, but I think they made a mistake and did something that allowed me to see under the hood.

When I talk to them tomorrow I will report on what I find out.


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## sender_name

Well my one saving grace COULD be that they sent out 2 techs...One had experience with cable card issues and he said someone with a Cable Card TV (Not a tivo) was also experiencing the same problem in my service area...So they are kicking it back to the distribution hardware for further investigating...Time for credits...At this point the only TV we're watching is HGTV, NESN and local channels...So it might be time for OTA (if I can get the channels) and a cord cut...


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## aaronwt

Merrick2019 said:


> I am even more convinced this is a game that Verizon is playing. My third TiVo - a Roamio Pro - just developed the IDENTICAL problem today. I was unable to get anyone who can do anything for real on the phone because Verizon pretty much only provides reasonable service between 9 and 5, but the tech I got saw that my service had been suspended. Don't have any idea what that is all about - will have to wait until tomorrow to rectify it - but the tech said my problem is because my account is suspended. Here's the thing - I'm sending this message over my FiOS internet connection - which is working just fine thank you very much - and I am still getting all DC FiOS channels 533 and below even though my account is supposedly suspended - and NO channels ABOVE 533 - EXACTLY like what has been going on on the two Series 3's I wrote about two months ago. When my account is suspended?
> 
> They obviously have a variety of switches they can throw and whatever switch they threw didn't effect my internet or my phone at all and only affected half of my cable channels - JUST LIKE TWO MONTHS AGO.
> 
> This is REALLY aggravating, but I think they made a mistake and did something that allowed me to see under the hood.
> 
> When I talk to them tomorrow I will report on what I find out.


Sounds like they screwed up your cable card on the account. I've had this happen a couple of times on FiOS. Where the result was like you. With only local channels showing up. The solution for me was to get a new cable card. After having them troubleshoot for two hours the first time, I wasn't going to deal with it any more. So I got a new cable card. And the second time I didn't waste my time and got a new cable card right away.

Sent from my Nexus 7(16GB)


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## sender_name

Following up on this..Massachusetts...I have not been getting Fox Sports 2 HD (CH 584) but have been getting SD Ch. 84. I called ages ago to report this and they told me that it's no longer part of my package...whatever...So whenever I turn it I get a grey screen and nothing...Well today when the tech came out who knew WAY more about tivo stuff (I guess he's their go to tivo guy) he looked it up and sure enough THAT channel was (and has been for a while) an MPEG4 channel. I never noticed because every other channel that shares that frequency was something ridiculous that I would Never watch..Like GEM network and some religious stuff...
So we then looked up the channels for the 2 frequencies I am not getting 495K and 537K and ONE channel in the group, 546, was listed as MPEG4 which was quite odd as it was believed that you would not switch over 1 channel on a frequency...
So I remain convinced that local channels have been switched to MPEG4 and nobody as of yet at FiOS can tell me that or knows how to find out. I am waiting for the knowledgeable guy to call me back to discuss this. I might TRY and call tomorrow if i have 2 free hours to sit on hold.


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## HerronScott

Sounds like time to look around for a used Roamio (we took advantage of one of the TiVo longtime user upgrades back in 2015 to move from 2 S3 OLEDs with lifetime to 1 Roamio Pro with lifetime and have been happy with the move).

Scott


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## Martin Dineen

Roamio with cable card and FiOS. Had TiVo on phone, and two trucks (FiOS supervisor and tech) on site. Couldn't sync (3rd) card, so Tivo agreed to send new device. Am told this device will be both cable card and OTT. After hanging up on TiVo, the FiOS supervisor got everything working. Note, importantly, only cable feed hadn't previously worked (was able to use all apps, eg Netflix). After FiOS supervisor left, the box completely shut down; no cable feed and no apps. Roamio box completely non-functioning. #1 Question, why no apps? #2 Question, when will new TiVo box arrive? TiVo told me it's in-transit, but when I called for FedEx tracking number, me TiVo told me let that will let me know when they know. Nine days, and counting. Bizarre. Feedback greatly appreciated.


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## sender_name

Martin Dineen said:


> Roamio with cable card and FiOS. Had TiVo on phone, and two trucks (FiOS supervisor and tech) on site. Couldn't sync (3rd) card, so Tivo agreed to send new device. Am told this device will be both cable card and OTT. After hanging up on TiVo, the FiOS supervisor got everything working. Note, importantly, only cable feed hadn't previously worked (was able to use all apps, eg Netflix). After FiOS supervisor left, the box completely shut down; no cable feed and no apps. Roamio box completely non-functioning. #1 Question, why no apps? #2 Question, when will new TiVo box arrive? TiVo told me it's in-transit, but when I called for FedEx tracking number, me TiVo told me let that will let me know when they know. Nine days, and counting. Bizarre. Feedback greatly appreciated.


you should put this in the Roamio forum...
TiVo Roamio DVRs
maybe a mod can move it.


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## HerronScott

Martin Dineen said:


> Roamio with cable card and FiOS. Had TiVo on phone, and two trucks (FiOS supervisor and tech) on site. Couldn't sync (3rd) card, so Tivo agreed to send new device. Am told this device will be both cable card and OTT. After hanging up on TiVo, the FiOS supervisor got everything working. Note, importantly, only cable feed hadn't previously worked (was able to use all apps, eg Netflix). After FiOS supervisor left, the box completely shut down; no cable feed and no apps. Roamio box completely non-functioning. #1 Question, why no apps? #2 Question, when will new TiVo box arrive? TiVo told me it's in-transit, but when I called for FedEx tracking number, me TiVo told me let that will let me know when they know. Nine days, and counting. Bizarre. Feedback greatly appreciated.


If you don't have any apps, it sounds like no Internet connectivity (which could go along with no cable as well). Only TiVo can answer your second question.

Scott


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## sender_name

HerronScott said:


> If you don't have any apps, it sounds like no Internet connectivity (which could go along with no cable as well). Only TiVo can answer your second question.
> 
> Scott


Yes...I was going to propose pinging the tivo from a pc and looking for it on your domain under your router table/map...


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