# Upgrade Tivo Series 3 (1TB HDD) to 1.6TB SSD ?



## warrenandclark (Aug 15, 2018)

Hi - I am trying to upgrade my dad's tivo while preserving his movie collection. He has a Tivo Series 3 HD (Model 648250B, with the OLED and thermometer shaped front). 

His Tivo has a 1tb WD greendrive inside it and i would like to upgrade this to a 1.6 tb Intel SSD, without losing his recorded movie archive. 

I tried using Rosswalker's guide to do the upgrade with an MFSLive CD, v 1.4 
using the command:

"backup -qtTao - dev/sda | restore - s 128 -xzpi - dev/sdb" 

This failed with the error message "backup target not large enough for entire backup by itself" even though the destination drive is much larger than the source. (1.6TB v 1 TB)

Thinking the problem might be that the version of MFStools was too old, I then downloaded, burned and tried using the "mfstools3.2 Suse 64-bit linux ISO" that was posted elsewhere on these forums.

Unfortunately, my workbench computer is 32-bit and wont run it. Is there a 32-bit .ISO of mfstools 3.2 out there somewhere? 

Is it even possible to clone or expand a Series3 Tivo that already has a 1tb hard drive in it? 

(I am guessing that this hard drive was already expanded by a previous owner, since this model wasn't sold with a 1tb hdd) 

What is the safest way to migrate his movie collection to a new SSD or HDD?

Any help is greatly appreciated!


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

warrenandclark said:


> Hi - I am trying to upgrade my dad's tivo while preserving his movie collection. He has a Tivo Series 3 HD (Model 648250B, with the OLED and thermometer shaped front).
> 
> His Tivo has a 1tb WD greendrive inside it and i would like to upgrade this to a 1.6 tb Intel SSD, without losing his recorded movie archive.
> 
> ...


I may have a 32 bit version someplace. If I find it. I'll send you a PM. Unfortunately it will not have all the fixes but it will work for what you need it to.


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## Anotherpyr (May 6, 2015)

I thought SSDs weren't considered a good option as TiVos are constantly recording?

SSD in a TiVo?


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## warrenandclark (Aug 15, 2018)

jmbach said:


> I may have a 32 bit version someplace. If I find it. I'll send you a PM. Unfortunately it will not have all the fixes but it will work for what you need it to.


That would be great. Either a Bootable 32-bit MSFtools Live ISO, or even just a copy of the MStools v 3.2 binary would be great.

(I think it should be possible to use the binary after booting from a Knoppix v7.2 CD, right?)

Also, once I have MStools v3.2 running, Can I use the same piped syntax as with version 1.4, or is it better to use the newer mfstool "copy" command?

-Wg


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

warrenandclark said:


> That would be great. Either a Bootable 32-bit MSFtools Live ISO, or even just a copy of the MStools v 3.2 binary would be great.
> 
> (I think it should be possible to use the binary after booting from a Knoppix v7.2 CD, right?)
> 
> ...


Sent you a PM about the ISO.

Use the newer copy command, it is quicker.


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## Luke M (Nov 5, 2002)

Anotherpyr said:


> I thought SSDs weren't considered a good option as TiVos are constantly recording?
> 
> SSD in a TiVo?


If you don't mind the cost and uncertain durability, they should work.

In fact, for the Bolt, which uses a 2.5" drive, an SSD may be the best option in a year or two, given improvements in SSDs and dwindling availability of suitable hard drives.


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## warrenandclark (Aug 15, 2018)

jmbach said:


> Sent you a PM about the ISO.
> 
> Use the newer copy command, it is quicker.


Thank you for the help! I burned the 32-bit ISO, booted, logged in with "root", password "tivo", checked my drive numbers with "cat /proc/partitions" then used:

"mfscopy -ai /dev/sdX /dev/sdY"

(replacing X and Y with my drive letters) and the transfer process seems to be properly underway, with about a 5 hour ETA. My understanding is that this will both transfer and expand in one step. I will post again with results as soon as it completes and I get the Series 3 put back together.


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## warrenandclark (Aug 15, 2018)

Anotherpyr said:


> I thought SSDs weren't considered a good option as TiVos are constantly recording?
> 
> SSD in a TiVo?


I am a little worried about sector alignment and not having any way to TRIM, but I figured I would give it a shot in the hope that it makes the interface a bit quicker. The Specs on this "data center drive" (intel DC3520 1.6TB) indicated a lot longer working life than earlier generations of SSDs. (Plus there is a 5 year warranty, which might be longer than this tivo is even supported with guide data.)

Hopefully I can get it working, and If so, I will post any results obtained (speed changes, reliability, etc).


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## Anotherpyr (May 6, 2015)

Luke M said:


> If you don't mind the cost and uncertain durability, they should work.
> 
> In fact, for the Bolt, which uses a 2.5" drive, an SSD may be the best option in a year or two, given improvements in SSDs and dwindling availability of suitable hard drives.


I believe there are other posts where they've been tested and do work. It's really been a question of cost and lifetime. And yes the lifetimes have been increasing and costs decreasing. I just would've thought given the price and availability of the 3.5" drives it's not the best solution.

Eventually spinning drives may go the way of the tape drive.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

warrenandclark said:


> Is it even possible to clone or expand a Series3 Tivo that already has a 1tb hard drive in it?
> 
> (I am guessing that this hard drive was already expanded by a previous owner, since this model wasn't sold with a 1tb hdd)
> 
> What is the safest way to migrate his movie collection to a new SSD or HDD?


FYI, WinMFS would do this for you as well. I moved 2 S3 OLED's that I had earlier expanded from the original 250MB drive to 1TB drives to 2TB drives.

Scott


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## warrenandclark (Aug 15, 2018)

The 1.6 Tb Intel SSD doesn't yet work. I used the 32bit mfstools iso copy command and it seemed to transfer my data and recordings , but when I put the new SSD into the series3 and plug it in, it doesn't finish booting. 

It hangs either at "welcome ! Powering up" or on a blank grey screen just after that. 

(Usually with all the TiVo lights lit up on the oled display)

I don't know if I should try a kickstart code, or try to recopy the drive using a different method..........?

(Like DD, or WINMFS)

Does anyone have any suggestions? 
-WC


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

Hmm. You could try a kickstart 58 (and maybe 57) to see if you can get it to boot up. If it does not boot then if you use dd to make an exact replica of the original drive and if it does not boot (assuming the original drive boots) then the TiVo does not like your SSD. If it boots, then use WinMFS to do the copy and expansion. However, I have not had an issue using MFSTools 3.2 on an OLED S3.


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## warrenandclark (Aug 15, 2018)

So I tried kick-starts but I don't even think they did anything (I think it hung before the point that kick-starting is feasible. )

I then tried a straight DD copy from the 1tb greendrive to the 1.6tb Intel SSD . And the result was exactly the same-- the SSD would not boot at all, freezing at the golden "welcome to TiVo screen" 

So I think the TiVo hates this SSD. I wonder if maybe it has something to do with SATA speeds (I remember I had a laptop a long time ago that would only work with lower-speed SATA II SSD drives )

Has anyone here successfully used a Series3 Tivo with a SATA III (6gbps) drive ? 

Does anyone have any other ideas to help these items coexist?

Has anyone else gotten a large SSD to work on a S3 tivo ? (1tb or larger)?


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

Could you post a video of the TiVo booting to include the front of the TiVo and the TV screen. 

One issue I can think of is if the power supply caps are going bad and the power is not stable enough for the SSD.


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## warrenandclark (Aug 15, 2018)

So I gave up on the SSD, bought a 2GB Seagate "skyhawk" surveillance drive, and cloned to that with the "mfstools copy" command. There seemed to be some errors while copying, but it completed and the Series 3 now boots and runs fine. (And now I have 2700+ hours of recording time,).

The 2tb Skyhawk drive does seem to boot more slowly than the 1tb 7200 rpm drive that was in there before, and the interface is *maybe* just a tiny bit laggier. But after a week of testing it seems to be working just fine. It would have been awesome to have the snappiness of an SSD, but after all my efforts it just wasn't working.

Thank you to everyone here who helped me troubleshoot and work on this project.


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## mswlogo (Mar 18, 2009)

I see this Intel 1.6 TB SSD didn’t work with the series 3. 

Are there known SSD’s that do work?

I don’t care about salvaging exisiting data.

I’d buy a newer Tivo and have tried 3 times but picture quality just can’t touch the Series 3.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

mswlogo said:


> I'd buy a newer Tivo and have tried 3 times but picture quality just can't touch the Series 3.


I can't say that we noticed any difference moving from our 2 original S3 OLED to a Roamio Pro on a 65" Panasonic plasma. At least at the time we shifted, Comcast wasn't downconverting everything to 720p. 

Scott


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## carlo_b_me (Aug 24, 2019)

@jmbach I too have an old 32-bit linux machine and when I boot from the .iso for MFSTools3.3 I downloaded, it complains about 32-bit. Is the 32-bit build .iso available somewhere or should I try to download the source from OpenSUSE and try to "make my own" (i.e. compile my own) by poking around in the Makefiles ? Or, could I try using 64-bit USB Boot drive in my new MacBook Pro and try to boot from it and then connect SATA drives in through a Thunderbolt->USB3.0->SATA 6.0Gb/s dual drive enclosure ?


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

carlo_b_me said:


> @jmbach I too have an old 32-bit linux machine and when I boot from the .iso for MFSTools3.3 I downloaded, it complains about 32-bit. Is the 32-bit build .iso available somewhere or should I try to download the source from OpenSUSE and try to "make my own" (i.e. compile my own) by poking around in the Makefiles ? Or, could I try using 64-bit USB Boot drive in my new MacBook Pro and try to boot from it and then connect SATA drives in through a Thunderbolt->USB3.0->SATA 6.0Gb/s dual drive enclosure ?


I would vote for the latter. The 32 bit version I have is old and does not have a lot of the improvements or fixes. I can send you a PM with the latest source. If you can compile a 32 bit version, it would be nice if you could create an ISO as well. I do get a few requests a year for a 32 bit version of the ISO. I just do not have a system to create one.


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

However, the 32 bit build I have should be okay for any series 3 or earlier TiVo.


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## carlo_b_me (Aug 24, 2019)

jmbach said:


> I would vote for the latter. The 32 bit version I have is old and does not have a lot of the improvements or fixes. I can send you a PM with the latest source. If you can compile a 32 bit version, it would be nice if you could create an ISO as well. I do get a few requests a year for a 32 bit version of the ISO. I just do not have a system to create one.


I'll wait for your PM with the latest source ... Also, if you have "hints" as to what I may need to do to to the makefiles to have it build in a 32-bit linux host and make command flags for building the .iso Also, I may try to compile using my MacBook Pro to get a version compiled for use on OSX... (but I better walk before I run. .
BTW: could you send me your OLD 32-bit just so I have an example of what it should look like when I'm finished?


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