# Question about current DirecTV HD Stuff



## Joe Siegler (May 10, 2000)

First off, I know parts of this cause volitile discussions regarding the D* HD DVR's, and TiVos, and all that. I'm not looking to start another thread regarding hotly debated opinions. I'm looking for some facts as to how things work, and whatnot. If you just want to slag off one of the options or another, go to another thread, eh? Thanks.

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I've got a question about current DirecTV activity. I used to be a DirecTV user some years ago, and left D* for TWC about two years ago or so when I got fed of up how DirecTV (mis)handled the TiVo software base. That was a painful decision, as I had a grandfathered free DVR fee, but I was willing to surrender that because I'd be getting a "real" TiVo with TWC.

So I've been here for a few months, and like most people I'm aware of the somewhat nebulously future dated "new" TiVo HD DVR for DirecTV. Given the way that DirecTV treated the TiVo code base, I didn't hold out hope that we'd get a "real" TiVo on DirecTV, just a subset. Still, one can hope. 

Anyway, back to current. I've had some epic problems with TWC in Dallas, and in regards to the Tuning Adapter I have with my TiVo. I finally got it running, but it was a MASSIVE problem to do so, and since then my bill has been screwed up, as they've been charging me $2.50 a month for the TA, which is supposed to be free (by their own admission). If they continue to fight me over it, or worse, refuse to change it, it's enough to make me look at going out the door to DirecTV again. What I want to know is this.

If I contacted DirecTV today, and said I wanted to sign up for service, I'd ask for the HD DVR. What is DirecTV sending out these days as a DVR? What's the current model numbers and all that? I'm a little unclear as to what their current offering is.

While I know they're not "TiVo" as such, at this point, I'm wondering exactly WHAT functionality is gained/lost by switching from a TiVo to the D* HD DVR. Is there a thread somewhere that does a comparison? If so, can someone link to it? Tkx.

These are the things that I like most about my TiVo, and am wondering if there's a comparable replacement feature in the D* HD DVR. I'm going to guess NOT, but I thought I'd take a stab.

1) KidZone - As I have a five year old, I've gotten very appreciative of the feature that lets me lock the TiVo down to just want I want her to see. I'm sure there's some sort of parental controls on the D* model, but the "sandbox" mode that the KidZone feature is works very well.

2) Internet video downloads - I download a ton of things automatically from CNet.com & revision3.com (gotta love HD Nation), so this would be a big loss if there's no way to do that with the D* DVR.

3) Wishlists. I believe the D* DVR solution has some concept of wishlists, but it's not exactly like the way TiVo does it. I'm most interested in this, actually. How's the D* version of this play out vs. TiVo's implementation?

4) OTA - TiVo's can blend the regular service provider with OTA - does the D* DVR do that?

I only have service on a single TV, so I don't so much care for multi room viewing and whatnot. I haven't used TiVo suggestions in ages, I've had them turned off. 

I realize that should I decide to go to DirecTV before the new DirecTiVo comes out I'll lose some service stuff - and there's no guarantee I'll get it back either when the new model comes out. But I wanted to weigh the options vs what I would gain by going to DirecTV.

Thanks for any info. I just hope this doesn't spawn a "that DVR sucks" kind of thread. Don't need any more of THOSE.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Joe Siegler said:


> If I contacted DirecTV today, and said I wanted to sign up for service, I'd ask for the HD DVR. What is DirecTV sending out these days as a DVR? What's the current model numbers and all that? I'm a little unclear as to what their current offering is.


All their HD DVRs run on the same software base and have the same software features, they all have a little different hardware, mostly just bigger hard drives in the newer models. You can't specify which model you will get but you really want the latest, the HR24 because it is much faster. You can buy (well lease) it online with someone like Solid Signal or get one at Costco to make sure you get one. If you can an MRV install however you most likely will get the HR24 since it's the MRV base model.

HR20 - The original, has OTA tuners installed
HR21 - HR20 with no OTA tuners (get AM21 module).
HR22 - HR21 with larger hard drive and BBC built in
HR23 - HR22 with DECA built in I believe
HR24 - HR23 but MUCH faster and is the base MRV model.

Basically do everything you can to get an HR24, but the CSR nor an installer can guarantee you one no matter what they say.



> While I know they're not "TiVo" as such, at this point, I'm wondering exactly WHAT functionality is gained/lost by switching from a TiVo to the D* HD DVR. Is there a thread somewhere that does a comparison? If so, can someone link to it? Tkx.


Well, there are a couple here but DBSTalk is probably the place you want to go. And what is "missing" is probably pretty subjective.
I think the big ones, and again you may not care about these are:
1) Suggestions
2) Tivo style list guide
3) Advanced wishlists
4) 50 limit on season passes

* For 2 there is a list style type guide you can pull up per channel on the HR2x so it's close, but not the same.
* For 3 this only matters depending on what you search for. You can do very advanced searching on the HR2x. There are some things it can do the Tivo can't and there are some thing the Tivo wishlist can do the HR2x can't.
* The 50 limit gets some people. However, if you have multiple DVRs in the house networked then their playlists and record lists are combined so if you had two HR2x's then you'd effectively have 100 season passes. There are other work arounds as well.

So again, it all depends on what and how you use your Tivo and how important these are.



> These are the things that I like most about my TiVo, and am wondering if there's a comparable replacement feature in the D* HD DVR. I'm going to guess NOT, but I thought I'd take a stab.
> 
> 1) KidZone - As I have a five year old, I've gotten very appreciative of the feature that lets me lock the TiVo down to just want I want her to see. I'm sure there's some sort of parental controls on the D* model, but the "sandbox" mode that the KidZone feature is works very well.


No. There are some pretty advanced parental controls but I'd guess they aren't comparable.



> 2) Internet video downloads - I download a ton of things automatically from CNet.com & revision3.com (gotta love HD Nation), so this would be a big loss if there's no way to do that with the D* DVR.


Pretty simple if you have a PC since the DirecTV DVRs are fully DLNA compliant. Run a DLNA server on your PC like PlayOn and you can stream anything including Netflix, Hulu, EPSN3 and every video podcast on the planet and stream locally downloaded videos as well. Tversity may also be an option. But it's not "built in" if that's what you're asking.



> 3) Wishlists. I believe the D* DVR solution has some concept of wishlists, but it's not exactly like the way TiVo does it. I'm most interested in this, actually. How's the D* version of this play out vs. TiVo's implementation?


As I noted above, it really, really depends on what you search for. The HR2x's have some pretty advanced searching tools including boolean operators which really digs down into things. But again, it really depends on your searches and you really won't know until you try it. If you're really worried about it I might suggest a post on DBSTalk with some wishlist examples you do now asking if you can do those same searches on the HR2x.



> 4) OTA - TiVo's can blend the regular service provider with OTA - does the D* DVR do that?


Yep. HR20 has the OTA tuners built in, all others can use the external OTA tuner the AM21 which connects via USB to the HR2x.


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## joed32 (Jul 9, 2005)

You're leaving the Tivo that you really like over $2.50 per month?


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## mistergogolak (Jul 14, 2008)

I too have been getting the business from TWC here in South Carolina and just finished my contract with TWC. I'm considering returning to D* as well. The cable options where I live are severely limited - HTC, TWC. No FIOS, UVERSE, etc. They have made it very difficult to be a TIVO owner on their network. 

Do you guys have thoughts on whether it is better to buy your own gear and have someone come and professionally install vs letting the D* contractor bring out what's on the truck? From the above message I would think I would at least want an HR24 rather than play DVR roulette. What about the dish?

And, joeed? It's not just the $2.50. It's the cable card charges, the jacked up pricing for certain packages, the constant channel drops from TWC, the need to reboot once a week, the demands for new two year contracts to come out and fix their screwups... I'm willing to bet the $2.50 per tuner was the final straw. I can name that tune in three notes...


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

mistergogolak said:


> Do you guys have thoughts on whether it is better to buy your own gear and have someone come and professionally install vs letting the D* contractor bring out what's on the truck? From the above message I would think I would at least want an HR24 rather than play DVR roulette. What about the dish?


All DirecTV receivers are leased, no matter where you "buy" it. Still leased.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I may be leaving TiVo for DirecTV and 2 HR24-500's and one HD receiver H24-700. I will be saving about $50-$55 per month by going back to DirecTV. I have a few friends with this setup and they like it a lot. I like the DLNA features as well and I would gain VOD and the ability to buy PPV.

I've had so much trouble getting my TiVo Premiere and (2) Series 3's to do MRV consistently and they always seem to break. I've had a ton of cable card issues as well.

I love the TiVo interface but I feel that TiVo is no longer the cutting edge DVR out there.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?


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## whitepelican (Feb 15, 2005)

tazzmission said:


> I like the DLNA features as well<snip>
> 
> Anyone have any thoughts on this?


Well, my thoughts are that being DLNA compliant is a nice thing, but the DirecTV DVRs "MediaShare" is the crappiest implementation I could ever imagine for a media player. I found it to be completely worthless due to the horrible interface and the complete lack of any trickplay (no ffwd/rew are available at all). So, if you have a store of audio/video on a PC or NAS, I wouldn't look to DirecTV DVRs as being a great solution for a media player.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

whitepelican said:


> Well, my thoughts are that being DLNA compliant is a nice thing, but the DirecTV DVRs "MediaShare" is the crappiest implementation I could ever imagine for a media player. I found it to be completely worthless due to the horrible interface and the complete lack of any trickplay (no ffwd/rew are available at all). So, if you have a store of audio/video on a PC or NAS, I wouldn't look to DirecTV DVRs as being a great solution for a media player.


Ah, ok. Well I have (2) PS3's for that I guess. That is what I have been using as TiVo Desktop is horrible too.


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## whitepelican (Feb 15, 2005)

tazzmission said:


> Ah, ok. Well I have (2) PS3's for that I guess. That is what I have been using as TiVo Desktop is horrible too.


Tivo Desktop is horrible, but PyTivo and StreamBaby are both fantastic for serving video to the Tivo. With DirecTV, there are no good options.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

PlayOn works very well to stream to DirecTV, but you still don't get FFW or RRW.

If you have a PS3 that is near the best for streaming stuff to it (like using PlayOn) and it's not really worth looking for a replacement unless you just go with an HTPC.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

Can DLN be used to stream from the HR2x to a DLNA enabled TV set without the need for having an H2X receiver at that set?


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

CuriousMark said:


> Can DLN be used to stream from the HR2x to a DLNA enabled TV set without the need for having an H2X receiver at that set?


No. DRM encryption prevents it. A PS3 for example can see your HR2x receivers and even display their playlists but it can't play them due to DRM.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

I half expected that to be the case. True interoperability, the goal of DLNA, isn't really happening here then. DTV is just using it as base technology.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

I think DirecTV is using DLNA as a way to get content into the box, not out. Yet anyway. All that would really have to happen is other companies license the DirecTV DRM.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

CuriousMark said:


> Can DLN be used to stream from the HR2x to a DLNA enabled TV set without the need for having an H2X receiver at that set?


There's a free program called DIRECTV2PC that will play anything from an HR2x on your network connected DLNA enabled PC. So a PC costs more than a H2x, but if you already have one available, there you go.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

balboa dave said:


> There's a free program called DIRECTV2PC that will play anything from an HR2x on your network connected DLNA enabled PC. So a PC costs more than a H2x, but if you already have one available, there you go.


Yes, I am well aware, but that does not address my point. many TVs now have DLNA clients built in, mine does and it can receive from Playon directly without needing any DTV box.

I was thinking how cool it would be if I could use that TV as a whole home DVR receiver (like an H-2x) without needing to pay DTV to rent a receiver at that location. Of course that is not to be and the reasons are entirely understandable. If I were DTV I would want to keep my system fully contained in hardware I could collect money on.

DLNA was originally hyped as a way for all systems to share across manufacturer or service provider boundaries. It in fact never met that expectation and for economic and competitive reasons probably never will. As a consumer I am mildly disappointed that it didn't succeed in that promise. I can understand DTVs motivations for not supporting that aspect of DLNA.

Currently, in my TiVo centric household I use TiVo Desktop, which lets me auto copy SD shows from my S2 DVRS, convert them automatically to iPod format and shove them into iTunes for me. All in the background when the computer is idle with only occasional cleanup to conserve disk space. I could watch on that PC too, but it is an office machine and I don't use it that way, but the option is there. I would love such a feature from DirecTV, but I doubt that will ever happen, which is fine, I can always keep my S2 on a D12 for that purpose.

DRM is going to keep every bit of content walled into a fortress that belongs to whoever got that piece of content into your home. Easily moving things between devices once you have them is not likely to happen. The providers are going to want you purchase a separate copy for each device. This is just the world we are now living in.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

CuriousMark said:


> Yes, I am well aware, but that does not address my point. many TVs now have DLNA clients built in, mine does and it can receive from Playon directly without needing any DTV box.
> 
> I was thinking how cool it would be if I could use that TV as a whole home DVR receiver (like an H-2x) without needing to pay DTV to rent a receiver at that location. Of course that is not to be and the reasons are entirely understandable. If I were DTV I would want to keep my system fully contained in hardware I could collect money on.
> 
> ...


Such impatience. My Samsung TV has Apps for Hulu Plus, Blockbuster, Netflix and Vudu. Maybe not today, but someday it might get a DirecTV app.

For the record, there are no transfer or copy protection issues with DirecTV2PC. This is a real time streaming solution that lets the PC work very much like an H2x receiver. Porting this to a TV App is not far fetched at all, and would be well within the D* "containment" boundaries.

Oh, by the way, you're knocking the D* program that plays recordings on a PC because you don't want to watch it, but are defending a program for TiVo that plays recordings you could watch on the same PC because "the option is there." I don't get the logic.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

CuriousMark said:


> I half expected that to be the case. True interoperability, the goal of DLNA, isn't really happening here then. DTV is just using it as base technology.


think interoerabiliy failure is more a case of digital rights management then anything else - DLNA will come out on the losing end there


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

balboa dave said:


> Oh, by the way, you're knocking the D* program that plays recordings on a PC because you don't want to watch it, but are defending a program for TiVo that plays recordings you could watch on the same PC because "the option is there." I don't get the logic.


I didn't knock a thing, I was simply comparing. It sounded like you are not aware of the alternative, so I was explaining it. My point was that for watching they were equivalent. That isn't a feature that interests me however, that is all.

My defense of the TiVo program is for its added capability to transfer a show to iTunes for my iPod or for an iPhone or iPad if I had either of those. Streaming and transfers each have their advantages and disadvantages and those differences support different users with different desires. My explanation of my use case is simply to illustrate why, for me, transfers suit me better than streaming.

I would rather hear your use case and desires than be argued with. Each of our wishes are just as valid as the others. My original reason for responding was because you missed the point I was trying to make, so apparently I wasn't detailed or clear enough in my original post. By explaining my use case, I was making sure others didn't come to the same wrong conclusion based on my posting.

To repeat there is nothing wrong with streaming to a PC or maybe some day to my old Kuro (not likely being as it is out of production now). I just wish that companies like D* and TiVo would have chosen to use DLNA and the standard DLNA encryption and streaming protocols as is and not layered on an additional layer of DRM. Why they did so is completely understandable however from the point of view of their business case.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

sjberra said:


> think interoperability failure is more a case of digital rights management then anything else - DLNA will come out on the losing end there


Absolutely and sadly so!


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## eric_n_dfw (Jul 15, 2003)

I too got fed up with DFW TWC - specifically the technical incompetence around the CableCards & Tuning Adapters and the fact that Tivo MRV is completely useless with them because of their corporate stance on the CCI bit.

My main fears about the HR24 DVR was it's speed/responsiveness, UI and wish-list capabilities. The speed is as good as my Tivo HD, the UI is fine (miss the Tivo list view a little) and I haven't had a chance to play with the boolean search but from what I've read, it looks like it will fit the bill.

No KidZone is a little sad (I have an 8 and 3 year old), but our game room TV has the Parental Controls turned on and it's adequate - they still see all of the recorded titles and guide, but cannot play or preview anything outside of the rating limits. We usually are in/nearby the living room TV, so we're not too worried about it - plus we don't record much that would be a problem.

Netflix and Amazon streaming is supported by my BluRay player so nothing missing there.

OTA channels are sent by the satellite and, contrary to my prior believe, I find DTV's feed to be of the exact same picture quality as the antenna. I still have the antenna hooked into my TV's for times when severe storms that may cause DBS signal fade too. (In which case I'll only be caring about live weather news anyway, so DVR is not critical)

I'm very happy with the pair of DTV HR24-500's that I've had for a couple of weeks now and, although I had a couple of billing issues, DTV has corrected them all.

Oh, and I was worried that the picture quality would be poor compared to OTA and TWC... big no on that. I've seen less macro-blocking and breakup on DTV that TWC and it's as good as OTA on my 1080p, 58" screen so I'm *very* happy from the PQ point of view.

FWIW, gory details about my switch are journaled at this thread: http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=453144


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## Matt L (Aug 13, 2000)

You should try and twist D's arm a bit and get them to send you an AM21. Even if you have to pay for it, it's not too bad. Our local PBS stations have a lot of kids programming on the sub channels that D does not carry, plus for me there are a few channels OTA that D does not carry in any way. It's performance is very good, I have no issues getting a decent signal from Detroit stations 60 miles out.


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## tucsonbill (Aug 11, 2004)

Joe Siegler said:


> First off, I know parts of this cause volitile discussions regarding the D* HD DVR's, and TiVos, and all that. I'm not looking to start another thread regarding hotly debated opinions. I'm looking for some facts as to how things work, and whatnot. .


Unlless you've hacked your TivO dump it and go for the D* DVR. Is it better? No, just different. You'll like it . TiVo isn't particullarly cutting edge anymore. I like mine but I'd dump them in a minute if I didn't have the capability that I had to hack into them. If all you have if basic functionality -- one's the same as the other.


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