# Lifetime Service Resurrected



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

I received word last night that Lifetime Service is being permanently resurrected out of promotional status. (Well, as permanent as these things go...) Not sure how good a deal it is ($399/year or $299/year for secondary units), but wanted to share.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

If you log into your TiVo account and select "Price Plans" The $299.00 is showing up know as an option now. 

Thanks,


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

I thought the reason TiVo got rid of Lifetime service was that it wasn't cost-effective. What changed?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

davezatz said:


> I received word last night that Lifetime Service is being permanently resurrected out of promotional status. (Well, as permanent as these things go...) Not sure how good a deal it is ($399*/year* or $299*/year* for secondary units), but wanted to share.


After 10 years, that'd have cost $3,990 and $2,990, respectively. Not much of a bargain! Did TiVo mention why they'd charge annually for lifetime on a unit?


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Crap, I broke my rule of no posting prior to morning coffee.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

Good for TiVo! The option of Lifetime Service for $399 (or $299 for additional units) is apparently good for TiVo and definitely good for its customers regardless of which payment plan they ultimately choose. 

https://www3.tivo.com/store/home.do
(Click on TiVo service pricing.)

Existing TiVo customers now also have the options of monthly service for $9.95 or annual service for $99.95 on additional units!


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## clam729 (Nov 28, 2004)

All of my units (and units I bought for others - 8 total) are on Lifetime except one. That one is monthly. Is it possible to switch that to Lifetime now ? The last time I checked I was told I could deactivate the Tivo - add it to my Account - lifetime it - then give it back to my brother.

Would be much easier if I could just upgrade his in place.

UPDATE : I logged into my brother's account. I can add a new S2 DT w/Lifetime for $389. If I ordered that and have it shipped to him - he'll have 2 TiVo's - the original (on monthly) and the new (on Lifetime). Once he receives the new one, then I could cancel the monthly one, right ? I'll just have him ship it to back to me - maybe I'll add it to my account (for a fourth).

This way, he is getting Lifetime and a new S2 DT - seems like a better way to go, right ?


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## Doh (May 18, 2001)

I don't understand the $399/299. Now, $399 is only available to tivo owners, but they have no problem if I buy it and then give to a friend. Is the same true of the $299 option, or are they somehow going to try and monitor (like with MSD) whether it's still at my house? What if I buy it, and have it at my house for a couple of years, and then decide to sell it? Will it lose lifetime? That doesn't seem like such a good deal.


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## DrewTivo (Mar 30, 2005)

Yeah, I could use some clarification on the $299 option more generally.

Does it mean that you have to have at least one other machine that is either lifetime (at $399 or earlier purchase) or is on a full-price subscription?

What would happen if after buying the $299 sub you dropped the full-price unit (say, because the contract ran out)?


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## DrewTivo (Mar 30, 2005)

Amnesia said:


> I thought the reason TiVo got rid of Lifetime service was that it wasn't cost-effective. What changed?


Presumably at the time they thought that they were better off getting $299 for 3 years instead of for a lifetime. Now maybe they've concluded that $400 is better than $300 and that people upgrade their units frequently enough that it's not really costing them much. That is, if the typical Tivo person buys another tivo after 3 years they would typically replace the old unit anyway, so letting them keep the second unit with "free" service (i.e., continued lifetime) isn't really giving up revenue, but is consumer friendly.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

DrewTivo said:


> Yeah, I could use some clarification on the $299 option more generally.
> 
> Does it mean that you have to have at least one other machine that is either lifetime (at $399 or earlier purchase) or is on a full-price subscription?
> 
> What would happen if after buying the $299 sub you dropped the full-price unit (say, because the contract ran out)?


This is my question as well.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Amnesia said:


> I thought the reason TiVo got rid of Lifetime service was that it wasn't cost-effective. What changed?


Well, for one thing, Dish Network is about to hand over hundreds of millions of dollars to them.....

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080515/tivo_ahead_of_the_bell.html?.v=1


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Adam1115 said:


> Well, for one thing, Dish Network is about to hand over hundreds of millions of dollars to them.....
> 
> http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080515/tivo_ahead_of_the_bell.html?.v=1


I have a hard time reading much actual info in that article. It seems to be mostly speculation. Any of us could do that.


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## DrewTivo (Mar 30, 2005)

Adam1115 said:


> Well, for one thing, Dish Network is about to hand over hundreds of millions of dollars to them.....
> 
> http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080515/tivo_ahead_of_the_bell.html?.v=1


That has nothing to do with anything. If it was profitable before Dish, it's profitable now. If not, not. I'm guessing they learned from the "limited" availability of lifetime that it was a good idea--clearly Tivo hasn't figured out consumer behavior very well, which is why they keep changing their pricing plan options.


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## cliffr39 (Mar 23, 2008)

I'm not sure $400 is a good price just to get the guide data - that's really all it is... can't be that expensive for them to harvest it from tvguide.com... and to grace me with allowing me to use equipment I purchased (since you cannot record without service).


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

Amnesia said:


> I thought the reason TiVo got rid of Lifetime service was that it wasn't cost-effective. What changed?


I don't recall the exact time-frame of that assessment, but it was four or five years ago that I read about that in one of their annual reports.

In addition to the lifetime service costing more now, TiVo actually makes money on the sale of their DVRs, instead of losing money or breaking even, which during that prior time-frame, was part of the equation.

Its also possible that they've lowered their costs associated with offering the service, so that may also make it financially attractive to offer the lifetime once again, but that is just speculation on my part.

All in all, I wouldn't apply the assessment of five years ago to today's circumstances; clearly a lot has changed internally and externally for TiVo.

I'm just glad that the lifetime is now available to everyone, and not just existing customers; we've had a lot of folks, especially DIRECTV / TiVo customers with lifetime on their older DirecTiVo boxes that have been ineligible for these promotions.

Lou


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

cliffr39 said:


> I'm not sure $400 is a good price just to get the guide data - that's really all it is... and to grace me with allowing me to use equipment I purchased (since you cannot record without service).


If you use the equipment for more than 31 months, it is a good deal. Especially if you consider selling your unit somewhere down the line, because that lifetime service will retain a good portion of its value (if not all of it) to the next person who ends up using it.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

cliffr39 said:


> I'm not sure $400 is a good price just to get the guide data - that's really all it is... can't be that expensive for them to harvest it from tvguide.com... and to grace me with allowing me to use equipment I purchased (since you cannot record without service).


You can't just scrape listings from tvguide.com and use them for commercial purposes.

Tivo buys their guide data from Tribune Media, and you can bet that it's for commercial purposes, the rates aren't as cheap as you would think.

Not to mention that you're also paying for support and continued software development, bringing the addition of features that make a Tivo "a Tivo" and not just some run on the mill cableco DVR that does one thing (poorly).


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## nirisahn (Nov 19, 2005)

I'm not clear on the $399 vs. $299. If I already own a TiVo or 2 and I buy a new one, will I pay $399 or $299 for service? Or is it if I buy 2 or more new TiVos that I pay $399 for the first TiVo and $299 for any additional TiVos?

I just went to tivo.com to check this out and it has $399 for lifetime, but that it expired 2/18/08 and that $299 is for three years. There must be another link that I missed.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Cool.
I have one Series 2 with lifetime, and one Series 3 with MSD at $6.95/month, with two years remaining. If I bought a third TiVo (TiVoHD), would I be able to put Lifetime on it for $299?

Would I be able to transfer my MSD service to the new TiVoHD and buy Lifetime for the Series 3? Which one do you guys think is the unit with the most longevity, Series 3 or TiVoHD?


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

If you log into your account at tivo.com, the pricing will be displayed for you.

nirisahn, I would guess $299. One thing we noticed on the site is that the 'popup' that appears when you get the plan details is showing the older promotion information on one of our computers, and the newer info on a different one. 

MickeS, your next TiVo purchase would cost $299 for the lifetime service. I don't think you can do any transferring, but you should also be able to (and should have always been able to) purchase a lifetime on the 2nd unit you have, but that is something I'd check with TiVo on. 

A new Series3 and a new TiVo HD should last about the same length of time, the most common failure point in either unit is a hard drive, and that is easily replaced. Beyond that, its essentially a crap shoot.

But, the Series3 will disappear from the market sooner, rather than later (unless something changes) so if you value those extra features, you may not want to wait too much longer. But all in all, these units are pretty much the same.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

tivoupgrade said:


> In addition to the lifetime service costing more now, TiVo actually makes money on the sale of their DVRs, instead of losing money or breaking even, which during that prior time-frame, was part of the equation.


I also thing TiVo sees more revenue oppurtunity in the active susbscriptions from 3rd party deals likes ads and Tivocasts and UNBOX. Also TiVo may see good revenue generation in moving older lifetime to a new box for 199$ that they bring out every so often. That is different from a 6 or 7 year old S1 still hanging on their cost structure.

Plus they just may have seen the light that a substantial group of consumsers just do not like any plan but pay once and be done.

Now I have to deal with considering if 299/6.95* = 43 months is worth a lifetime or not

* - old grandfathered month to month sub.


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## drosoph (Mar 21, 2000)

I want the Lifetime Service for the Web Special Refurb TiVo HD!!!


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## Bettamojo5 (Apr 12, 2004)

Do you have to have more than one Tivo to get lifetime service? I have an HD Tivo that I bought last December and pay monthly service on. I went to the mange my account page and I do not have an option to change to lifetime service. Can I call Tivo and set it up that way?


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## MAFletch (Feb 14, 2008)

I just got lifetime on a second S3 box in February for $399 (since at that time it was only available until 2/13/08). I just got off the phone with them to request a $100 credit and had no luck since I was out of the 30 day window. It sucks that activating 60 days too early cost me an extra $100.


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## MicahG (Feb 16, 2008)

so if I have a 2 Tivo's right now. One is activated and has lifetime on it. The other isn't activated. I should be able to get the $299 lifetime for the second unit right? And when you say that it's not transferable, that doesn't mean that later down the line I can't sell that $299 unit right?


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

MicahG said:


> so if I have a 2 Tivo's right now. One is activated and has lifetime on it. The other isn't activated. I should be able to get the $299 lifetime for the second unit right?


it seems so, yes.


> And when you say that it's not transferable, that doesn't mean that later down the line I can't sell that $299 unit right?


No, it means that you can't transfer that lifetime service to a brand new Series 5 in 2012.


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## Majik45 (Apr 28, 2008)

So if I just bought a lifetime in the last 2 weeks for $399 I can get a $100 refund by calling them?


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Majik45 said:


> So if I just bought a lifetime in the last 2 weeks for $399 I can get a $100 refund by calling them?


If you're within the 30 day window, then you should be able to call and cancel, then resub with this deal (although the CSR should just make it easy and do the adjustment for you).


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## Majik45 (Apr 28, 2008)

Just called them and they credited my account with $100. My HD tivo with Lifetime subscription now cost me $500 total as I got in on the $200 HD Tivo deal that ended April 30th. AWESOME!


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## DrewTivo (Mar 30, 2005)

nirisahn said:


> I'm not clear on the $399 vs. $299. If I already own a TiVo or 2 and I buy a new one, will I pay $399 or $299 for service?


$299. If you log in to your account and then purchase a tivo, the lifetime service option will show up as $299.

BTW, unless there's some restriction on canceling other accounts, this is a nice treat for current subscribers--basically giving them $100 off lifetime. (I.e., if you have a tivo under contract and want a new one, but don't want two, but this, wait a month, and then cancel the other one. You've saved $100 on lifetime).


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

> Originally Posted by *ZeoTiVo*
> Now I have to deal with considering if 299/6.95* = 43 months is worth a lifetime or not


Yup same question I have just got the TiVo HD and haven't set it up yet. The Tivo Series 2 that I was supposed to transfer the service off of still have some use to me so for $299 I will likely get lifetime for the new TiVo HD. If I do will have $665 into a new TiVo HD with lifetime, a TiVo wireless adapter and a 500 gig WD My DVR Expander external hard drive guess that's not bad.

Thanks,


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Yeah I decided to keep my Series 2 Lifetimed and not take advantage of the transfer offers they've had. I guess there's just a part of me that thinks that the inability to control external boxes with the S3/THD could bite me in the ass... since the Series 2 will almost be guaranteed to work at least with SD satellite and cable for a long time, and it still does TTG/TTCB/music, I prefer to keep it at Lifetime.

This offer, to outright buy LT for a new unit, is more attractive to me.


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## sirbob (Apr 8, 2008)

Oh no, I just picked up my Tivo HD w/ Lifetime on April 10th using the $200 promotion so I'm a mere 5 days out of the window for getting the $100 credit. So sad,

Ryan


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

sirbob said:


> Oh no, I just picked up my Tivo HD w/ Lifetime on April 10th using the $200 promotion so I'm a mere 5 days out of the window for getting the $100 credit. So sad,
> 
> Ryan


I would still try and ask them for the credit. Worst that could happen is that they turn you down.


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## alyssa (Dec 7, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Now I have to deal with considering if 299/6.95* = 43 months is worth a lifetime or not
> 
> * - old grandfathered month to month sub.


Old's cool
+:up:



drosoph said:


> I want the Lifetime Service for the Web Special Refurb TiVo HD!!!


One would think, all new units bought through Tivo might have all service plans available eventually. Have you called up CS & asked?


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## sirbob (Apr 8, 2008)

MickeS said:


> I would still try and ask them for the credit. Worst that could happen is that they turn you down.


I had the same line of thought but was sadly turned down. Oh 5 days, why must you taunt me.

However, if anyone else in a simillar situation of being over the 30 day mark by a week or so calls in and gets a switch-er-o do tell and I'll try again,

Ryan


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

GoHokies! said:


> No, it means that you can't transfer that lifetime service to a brand new Series 5 in 2012.


Unless they get rid of lifetime again in 2011 for not being cost effective and then offer a "once in a lifetime, lifetime transfer" in 2012.


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## brettatk (Oct 11, 2002)

I'm sort of hoping for a "special" lifetime transfer option when the next series of Tivo's come out. Or they could just mess up like they did when I transferred my Series 1 lifetime to my Tivo HD and not charge me at all.


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## Hokie-Dave (Feb 19, 2006)

Just called up and got my credit. It took all of 10 minutes. The lady in the billing department said that they have something in their system setup to do the credit for them if you are within 30 days so they do not have to go through the process of cancelling your account, crediting the $399, then reactivating it and charging you $299. I even got a confirmation email for the credit while I was on the phone with them.

TiVo Customer Service was a pleasure to deal with.

dave


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Now I have to deal with considering if 299/6.95 = 43 months is worth a lifetime or not


I am in the same situation. My first thought was, "If you are capable of replacing the hard drive (more than likeky the only part of the TiVo that would wear out within four years), then go for it."
Note that, unlike with the 3-year plan, the lifetime plan does not extend the length of the parts warranty.

My second thought was, "I think I'll wait to see if they are working on a new machine that will somehow allow things like Video On Demand access without needing a separate cable box before investing that kind of money on a box I might want to replace."

(Then again, according to the TiVo website, if you get a lifetime service and then sell the box to someone else, they get the lifetime service for that box as well.)

-- Don


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## SeanTivo (Sep 13, 2006)

DrewTivo said:


> That has nothing to do with anything. If it was profitable before Dish, it's profitable now. If not, not. I'm guessing they learned from the "limited" availability of lifetime that it was a good idea--clearly Tivo hasn't figured out consumer behavior very well, which is why they keep changing their pricing plan options.


If you want the answer to why they flip flopped on this again, read the Comcast/Tivo forum.

The Comcast rollout has been a disaster. DTV is ramping up efforts to replace the DTV Tivo's. The result is Tivo's sub base is shrinking. By a lot.

What choice do they have except to try growing Stand Alone subs by offering deals?

They have an earnings call in 2 weeks. I can't wait to hear Rogers explain why they are doing this after previous calls where he explained why they were dumping lifetime service because it didn't make sense for Tivo.


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## alyssa (Dec 7, 2003)

That Don Guy said:


> My second thought was, "I think I'll wait to see if they are working on a new machine that will somehow allow things like Video On Demand access without needing a separate cable box before investing that kind of money on a box I might want to replace."
> -- Don


yeah but say you've got 2 tivo's, one lifetimed & one at $6.95. If you bought a third tivo at the $299 lifetime offer & kept the $6.95 unit subed for the kiddo/workout/guest room tv. 
Then when the S4 comes out you'd have a $6.95 sub to transfer to it.
Yeah, I'm desperately trying to talk myself into a second hd tivo to replace my S2.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I also thing TiVo sees more revenue oppurtunity in the active susbscriptions from 3rd party deals likes ads and Tivocasts and UNBOX. Also TiVo may see good revenue generation in moving older lifetime to a new box for 199$ that they bring out every so often. That is different from a 6 or 7 year old S1 still hanging on their cost structure.
> 
> Plus they just may have seen the light that a substantial group of consumsers just do not like any plan but pay once and be done.
> 
> ...


I always look at it this way. Say in 1/2 the time, 22 months you decide you want something new, or don't want it anymore.

That would have been $153 @ $6.95, but you paid $299.

The question is, could you sell it at a $146 (or more) premium with lifetime on it, then selling it without, and I think the answer has to be yes.

-smak-


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

smak said:


> I always look at it this way. Say in 1/2 the time, 22 months you decide you want something new, or don't want it anymore.
> 
> That would have been $153 @ $6.95, but you paid $299.
> 
> ...


That's a really good point. I have a Tivo HD that I'm paying $6.95/mon on. I think I might just pull the trigger on this. I also have a S3 in the middle of a 3 year pre-pay. Having the Tivo HD on lifetime will give me more options when the 3 -year pre-pay on the S3 runs out. I can put it on a monthly or yearly MSD plan.

Edit: Too bad Tivo's web site does not allow me to switch service plans on existing boxes. Looks like I have to make a call.


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

This story was mentioned on Friday's episode of Buzz out Loud (CNET podcast) with credit to GizmoLovers and zatznotfunny. 

Funny quote by Molly: "According to Dave Zatz (I don't know who that is) ..."


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

smak said:


> I always look at it this way. Say in 1/2 the time, 22 months you decide you want something new, or don't want it anymore.
> 
> That would have been $153 @ $6.95, but you paid $299.
> 
> ...


The problem with that Is that I have 4 kids and currently 4 active TiVo DVRs 3 of them dual tuners. I tend to move DVRs around versus a straight replacement of one so if I sell - it is older tech. Also I am not energetic about selling stuff. Double also my single tuner S2 has lifetime that is just creeping over 4 years old - it currently servce TiVo to my Sister and Borther in law in Switzerland via Slingbox. I hope to transfer its lifetime to a Series 4 when that comes out.

That is actually at the heart of my delimena as I will likely end up with one more TiVo HD before the S4 comes out and would I hang onto that TiVo HD for 43 months - I think the answer is yes though it depends on how much bette and easier the S4 might be - eg cable cards or not, more horsepower under the hood etc..


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## keepthewebopen (Feb 15, 2008)

So is the $299 pricetag on lifetime subs for existing subscribers good for naked HD Tivos or do you have to purchase the $598.99 bundle?

Tivo.com only allows you to purchase the lifetime sub when you bundle it with the $299 HD tivo, but I'm wondering if I could buy an HD Tivo elsewhere and then buy a $299 lifetime sub over the phone.

What say you tivo gurus?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

keepthewebopen said:


> So is the $299 pricetag on lifetime subs for existing subscribers good for naked HD Tivos or do you have to purchase the $598.99 bundle?
> 
> Tivo.com only allows you to purchase the lifetime sub when you bundle it with the $299 HD tivo, but I'm wondering if I could buy an HD Tivo elsewhere and then buy a $299 lifetime sub over the phone.
> 
> ...


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## brettatk (Oct 11, 2002)

Unless you already have a wireless adapter then I'd just go for the bundle. But as mentioned you must already have a tivo active in order to do this. Once you go in to activate the new Tivo the lifetime sub should show up.


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## Majik45 (Apr 28, 2008)

Well, Tivo screwed up my $100 refund on the lifetime price. I got on my credit card website this morning, and saw a $6.95 charge on there from Tivo which is weird considering I have a 3 year pre-pay on and old Series 2, and then I just bought a new HD Tivo on April 30th with lifetime. I logged into my account online to see what the deal was and here's what I find. I got the HD Tivo for $199 back with the deal that ended in April and bought the lifetime subscription for $399. Well, I see tivo refunded both of those prices in my accounts, and then recharged me for a Tivo HD at $299 and lifetime subscription at $299. Well because the price of the actual Tivo went up with the way they did it, I actually got charge $6.95 more or whatever it was because the tax on the tivo was now more. I guess I'll have to call them again to fix it.


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## keepthewebopen (Feb 15, 2008)

lessd said:


> Yes, and no phone call needed, you can do it on the TiVo web sight (if you have another active TiVo in your account)


You mean $299 lifetime will be listed when you put in the TSN of the box you want to activate, right? So, for example, you could purchase a $299 Tivo at Bestbuy and the $299 lifetime sub will be available when you go to activate under your existing account, right?

Because on the tivo store if you try to purchase a refurb unit or any other discounted unit it will not allow you to order together with a $299 lifetime sub.



brettatk said:


> Unless you already have a wireless adapter then I'd just go for the bundle. But as mentioned you must already have a tivo active in order to do this. Once you go in to activate the new Tivo the lifetime sub should show up.


The wireless adapter bundle doesn't seem to work with the MSD. The available bundles are:
1. $299 HD Tivo + $299 MSD lifetime sub
2. "Bluemoon" promo: $698.99 HD Tivo w/ wireless adapter and lifetime sub
3. "Webspecial": $199 refurb HD Tivo + 1 year-service commitment
4. "NEA" promo: $199 refurb HD Tivo + any service commitment (from 1-year to $399 lifetime sub).

When I log into my account and add each of these deals to my cart #1 is the only one which gives the $299 MSD lifetime sub. For example, deal #2 shows up at $698.99 whether I'm logged into my existing service account or not.

Now, lessd is reporting that if you enter the TSN to activate a new Tivo then the $299 MSD shows up too. However, the only place I know of to get an HD Tivo for as low as $199 (or $299 w/ free wireless adapter) is via one of the above bundles. So unless Tivo will issue a $100 refund, I can't get both a $199 HD Tivo (or $299 w/ free wireless) AND a $299 lifetime sub.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

keepthewebopen: I just got a new TiVo HD + wireless adapter on a special Tivo promotion for $199.99 and then purchased lifetime for the unit at $299.99 or $500 total. The promotion was limited and you had to receive the offer directly from TiVo, but I am guessing if you are willing to wait a few months something similar will come along that will be available to more people. TiVo seems to have lots of different offers, but once something is offered the first time it seems to come back around again (unless they offer something better).

Good Luck,


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

keepthewebopen said:


> You mean $299 lifetime will be listed when you put in the TSN of the box you want to activate, right? So, for example, you could purchase a $299 Tivo at Bestbuy and the $299 lifetime sub will be available when you go to activate under your existing account, right?
> 
> Because on the tivo store if you try to purchase a refurb unit or any other discounted unit it will not allow you to order together with a $299 lifetime sub.
> 
> Now, lessd is reporting that if you enter the TSN to activate a new Tivo then the $299 MSD shows up too. However, the only place I know of to get an HD Tivo for as low as $199 (or $299 w/ free wireless adapter) is via one of the above bundles. So unless Tivo will issue a $100 refund, I can't get both a $199 HD Tivo (or $299 w/ free wireless) AND a $299 lifetime sub.


You can get a new TiVo-HD at Amazon for $260 inc S&H, if you have a TiVo account with a active TiVo in it, then when you go to active the new TiVo one of the payment options will be $299 Lifetime (the $299 three year deal is no more). That is simple, there may be a way to purchase directly from TiVo and get the same deal..I don't know.


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## scurby2 (Feb 6, 2008)

Great news on the $299 lifetime. I got a free HD tivo through my Tivo credit card points a few months ago and hadnt activated it yet, until now. This just saved me $100 and I can cancel the crappy time warner hd dvr rental box and save $15 a month on that. Now i just hope I get all the HD channels though Time Warner.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

windracer said:


> Funny quote by Molly: "According to Dave Zatz (I don't know who that is) ..."


Ouch! 

Edit: I think we need to start a letter writing campaign.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

davezatz said:


> Ouch!
> 
> Edit: I think we need to start a letter writing campaign.


They mention you on the Engadget HD podcast quite a bit 

-smak-


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Seems a little screwed up to me. Before signing in to Tivo web site the 3 year pre-pay of $299 is available, but after logging in it's not!? I know the $299 lifetime option is there, but lifetime is tied to that particular box only where 3 year pre-pay is not (can be moved to other boxes), so it would be good to have the 3 year pre-pay option still available as a current Tivo subscriber.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

moyekj said:


> Seems a little screwed up to me. Before signing in to Tivo web site the 3 year pre-pay of $299 is available, but after logging in it's not!? I know the $299 lifetime option is there, but lifetime is tied to that particular box only where 3 year pre-pay is not (can be moved to other boxes), so it would be good to have the 3 year pre-pay option still available as a current Tivo subscriber.


WOW you would be TiVos dream as i am sure they would like to sell 3 year prepaid instead of the lifetime Sub.


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

davezatz said:


> Ouch!
> 
> Edit: I think we need to start a letter writing campaign.


Well, at least they mentioned you by name. When they said "Gizmo Lovers" I was sure I was going to hear Megazone mentioned.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

moyekj said:


> Seems a little screwed up to me. Before signing in to Tivo web site the 3 year pre-pay of $299 is available, but after logging in it's not!? I know the $299 lifetime option is there, but lifetime is tied to that particular box only where 3 year pre-pay is not (can be moved to other boxes), so it would be good to have the 3 year pre-pay option still available as a current Tivo subscriber.


I'm with lessd, I'm not sure why you would want to spend the same amount of money on a monthly prepaid as on a true Lifetime subscription. Yes you can't move the Lifetime to another box (unless as a warranty exchange) but it also gives that TiVo much greater resale value.

If you really want to go the prepaid route, the $99 1 year offer is still available on the MSD plan, and as long as TiVo doesn't increase the price in the meantime, is slightly cheaper ($297 vs $299) over that same 3 year period.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

RonDawg said:


> I'm with lessd, I'm not sure why you would want to spend the same amount of money on a monthly prepaid as on a true Lifetime subscription. Yes you can't move the Lifetime to another box (unless as a warranty exchange) but it also gives that TiVo much greater resale value.
> 
> If you really want to go the prepaid route, the $99 1 year offer is still available on the MSD plan, and as long as TiVo doesn't increase the price in the meantime, is slightly cheaper ($297 vs $299) over that same 3 year period.


 Good points. The $99/year offer I overlooked completely and is a suitable replacement option. That in addition to the $299 lifetime actually gives better MSD options than previously available.


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

RonDawg said:


> I'm with lessd, I'm not sure why you would want to spend the same amount of money on a monthly prepaid as on a true Lifetime subscription. Yes you can't move the Lifetime to another box (unless as a warranty exchange) but it also gives that TiVo much greater resale value.
> 
> If you really want to go the prepaid route, the $99 1 year offer is still available on the MSD plan, and as long as TiVo doesn't increase the price in the meantime, is slightly cheaper ($297 vs $299) over that same 3 year period.


Perhaps its just an issue of TiVo eventually phasing out, or modifying the pre-paid plans; up until a few days ago, the lifetime wasn't offered in quite the same way, and maybe there are plans to either lower that price, or remove it altogether?


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

Unless there's a contract, you always run the risk of the price of your subscription going up, but given a choice of paying the exact same price for a 3 year subscription and a lifetime one, I would always go for the lifetime one.

The current $299 Lifetime deal is much more palatable, albeit only available to current subscribers.


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## jkalnin (Jan 8, 2003)

I got my TivoHD in February, and I am a little pissed about this price drop now. First off, I spent over $700 and was unable to get any reward points for it - annoyed...

Next, my TivoHD is hardly as amazing as my S2 Tivo. So far I've had to restart it around 4 times to fix video freezing errors, and it has reset itself another few times for who knows what reason - more annoyed.

Now, I see that the price for lifetime is $100 less. This is all adding up to me being pretty unhappy with my latest Tivo experience. Back with S2 I would brag to everyone how great Tivo is. Now, with my TivoHD, I tell people to just stick with their DVRs.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Prices always drop, and you weren't able to get any "points" for your purchase because there is no such program anymore.

You shouldn't be having the hardware problems you are, but that's a matter for a different thread.


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## jkalnin (Jan 8, 2003)

GoHokies! said:


> Prices always drop, and you weren't able to get any "points" for your purchase because there is no such program anymore.
> 
> You shouldn't be having the hardware problems you are, but that's a matter for a different thread.


True, true, and false. If I was alone with the problems I'd just replace it, but it seems there are a ton of people with the TivoHD having the exact same issues.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

jkalnin said:


> True, true, and false. If I was alone with the problems I'd just replace it, but it seems there are a ton of people with the TivoHD having the exact same issues.


And there are a ton more that are not.

Regardless of how many others are having the problem, my statement stands true: You shouldn't be having those hardware issues - it isn't operating as designed. (also, this is a debate for another thread)


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

Given the Tivo australia development (no sub fee) and Motley fool's article regarding that, anyone think there is a chance Tivo US may get rid of the sub fee also down the line? If Tivo provides a free basic service, and a paid premium service, assuming having lifetime means you get the premium service, would you get the lifetime now?


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

Under the current structure of TiVo Inc (as an independent corporation with the DVR business their core), i don't think they will offer any sort of free or reduced cost service beyond what they do now. 

They will need to be bought out by some conglomerate that can subsidize the service, come up with a different business model, or significantly add advertisibg to the system, to offer a reduced cost or free service.


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## wblynch (Aug 13, 2003)

Funny that there are several free Electronic Program Guides for home PCs. It's truly difficult for me to believe that the value of a guide can be more than $3 to $5 a month.

TiVo should offer a Tivo Lite where all you get is the guide and no extras. (like the stupid Music Plus videos, the 360 Radio stations and the Suggestions)


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

wblynch said:


> Funny that there are several free Electronic Program Guides for home PCs. It's truly difficult for me to believe that the value of a guide can be more than $3 to $5 a month.


There's a few fees associated with the guide data besides just licensing the guide data itself. TiVo leases a bank of phone numbers (though not as many as it used to) and it also is bound to have a huge monthly broadband service bill.

That said, I would think both things would be more than offset by the ads TiVo displays and the selling of anonymous user viewing information to 3rd parties.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

wblynch said:


> Funny that there are several free Electronic Program Guides for home PCs.


I haven't seen any that have listings 12 days in advance and with the level of detail that TiVo has, but there might be some.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

morac said:


> it also is bound to have a huge monthly broadband service bill.


The only reason they would have a "huge" broadband bill would be thru incompetence and stupidity. Of course, no shortage of that at TiVo. Internet bandwidth is almost "too cheap to meter". Remember that phrase from the early days of nuclear power? 

But I really mean it. Too cheap to meter. For example, to transfer high volumes from Amazon's cloud you pay $0.10 per GB.

So, let's assume that TiVo is grossly incompetent (a realistic assumption) and assume that TiVo needs to transfer an entire Gigabyte of data to your box every month, just to keep your schedule up to date. Cost: 10 cents. Compare that to the $10/mo (more or less) that TiVo charges for each box.

And I really don't want to hear about all that Unbox crap, Cranky Geeks, whatever else TiVo wants to push at me. I don't want the cost of that bundled into my basic service.

In addition, let's say I have multiple TiVos in my house. Why can't they be smart enough to update their schedule from each other? For a household with 4 TiVos the monthly cost for schedule info: 2.5 cents each. Helps put that "multi service discount" into perspective, doesn't it?


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

Maybe Tivo has a personal vendetta against you?


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## DrewTivo (Mar 30, 2005)

wblynch said:


> Funny that there are several free Electronic Program Guides for home PCs. It's truly difficult for me to believe that the value of a guide can be more than $3 to $5 a month.
> 
> )


What's the value of the interface? It's classic consumer marketing--the interface is a fixed cost that truly should be included in the price of the box. But it's more attractive to sell the box at a lower price with higher monthly payments than have the prices reflect the true costs, which would mean box prices of $100-200 more (to cover software) and monthly fees that are $5 instead of $10-15. Maybe tivo should confuse its plans more and offer a "semi-lifetime" plan for $200, but with monthly fees of $5 instead of whatever.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

Drew, TiVo pays a monthly fee for each user to cover the Tribune service that gathers and packages up the guide data.


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## wblynch (Aug 13, 2003)

DrewTivo said:


> What's the value of the interface?


I value the interface at $29.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> The only reason they would have a "huge" broadband bill would be thru
> 
> In addition, let's say I have multiple TiVos in my house. Why can't they be smart enough to update their schedule from each other? For a household with 4 TiVos the monthly cost for schedule info: 2.5 cents each. Helps put that "multi service discount" into perspective, doesn't it?


first off the guide data in itself is just text and obviously not a lot of data to transmit -especially when it is smartened up to just send new, changed,deleted info.

The cost is obviously in amintaing the hardware and software to send those updates and obviously TiVo would not just maintain one set for guide data and then replicate it all for all the spiffy new features you do not want. And tribune is smart enough to ask for payment per TiVo in use so sahring the guide data only decreases bandwidth by the small amount of text data.

So it is not the "bandwidth" but the systems to support the TiVo service that TiVo would have to cost out and come up with the business model to cover with a profit added in.

So if the monthly or lifetime service is something you think is being billed at too high a rate, why have you not switched to some alternative?


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## DrewTivo (Mar 30, 2005)

ah30k said:


> Drew, TiVo pays a monthly fee for each user to cover the Tribune service that gathers and packages up the guide data.


I understand that . . . point being that the monthly cost to *Tivo* of my using the box I purchased is whatever that monthly fee is--probably $3-4 or so. But the monthly subscription is significantly more than that, which is because Tivo needs to cover its development costs for the software in the box as well as the box hardware. But the software is a fixed cost that once loaded is done--why should people pay monthly for it? The reason is that it allows tivo to charge a lower upfront box price.


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## DrewTivo (Mar 30, 2005)

wblynch said:


> I value the interface at $29.


Never used a Comcast DVR, eh?


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## makeinu (Nov 24, 2006)

DrewTivo said:


> What's the value of the interface? It's classic consumer marketing--the interface is a fixed cost that truly should be included in the price of the box


Where did you get off saying that the interface is a fixed cost? Doesn't your Tivo get software updates?

On the other hand, I'm sure if you run Windows you're getting software updates for "free". Microsoft chooses to amortize the ongoing development costs into the fixed cost of the software. Tivo gives you a choice.



DrewTivo said:


> I understand that . . . point being that the monthly cost to *Tivo* of my using the box I purchased is whatever that monthly fee is--probably $3-4 or so. But the monthly subscription is significantly more than that, which is because Tivo needs to cover its development costs for the software in the box as well as the box hardware. But the software is a fixed cost that once loaded is done--why should people pay monthly for it? The reason is that it allows tivo to charge a lower upfront box price.


As much as we'd like to think that computers run themselves, the reality is that they don't and there is an entire profession built around updating and maintaining computer systems (IT).

If you don't think so then go ahead and run your own DVR with free guide data on your PC. I guarantee you it won't be a one shot deal. You are going to have to maintain that system.

I personally run most of my own servers, but in the case of recreational video recording I outsource the job to Tivo. I have a lifetime sub, but even if I didn't I'd probably subscribe to Tivo because based on the hourly wage I earn it'd still be cheaper than doing it myself.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

makeinu said:


> Where did you get off saying that the interface is a fixed cost?


Does the cost go up for every unit sold?

I agree they are always spending R&D money but by definition if it does not vary with quantity then it is fixed.


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## ilh (Dec 21, 2007)

Support costs certainly go up with number of units.


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

I am really tempted to get a 2nd HD unit with the lifetime for $600. I have two Series 2 units with lifetime now (and another HD unit on the MSD monthly plan). How easy would it be to sell one of the Series 2 units to recoup some of my cost? I would probably sell the modified unit. I forget how much extra drive space there is but I think it was a 120G addition. I'd have to look that up.

I've never sold anything on ebay (bought stuff before) so I don't know how hard it is (especially since I'd have no reputation). Being able to get some money out of the old unit would go a long way toward convincing the wife that buying a new HD unit makes sense.

I don't see any option for upgrading my existing monthly unit to a lifetime. Am I missing something?


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## desiboy (Oct 3, 2007)

To put it in perspective... a one-time nice dinner for two+ out can set one back by $50... and it's all out next day. Come on, just get life(time) !



ZeoTiVo said:


> ...
> Now I have to deal with considering if 299/6.95* = 43 months is worth a lifetime or not
> ...


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

desiboy said:


> To put it in perspective... a one-time nice dinner for two+ out can set one back by $50... and it's all out next day. Come on, just get life(time) !


I have 2 lifetime boxes and 6 active TiVo DVRs in my house so getting lifetime is not a block in itself. I just do not have a problem with paying monthly either and have 3 TiVo DVRs paying month to month with no contract at 6.95 a month.It is grandfathered and as long as I keep them in good standing the rate is not going up


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

Well I called Tivo and changed my monthly HD to lifetime. I did not see a method for doing that online and wondered if they were allowing that. When the person asked if I wanted to do it, I just said yes. I hadn't really gotten to the point where I had decided but figured what the heck.

Then I asked about buying lifetime for a retail purchase which is also OK. Also not obvious to me poking around the Tivo site. I could see that I could buy one from them and pay $299.

So I bought one from Amazon (well from someone through Amazon's front end) for $226 new. So that will be here next week. So I just spent $826 on stuff that I hadn't even considered when I woke up this morning. Thanks a lot guys. Sheesh.

I hope that I can sell a Series 2 and get back $150-200 to bring that down...


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## staceyeileen (Jan 3, 2002)

Is it possible to purchase the refurb HD web special for $199 from tivo.com with lifetime service for $299? I am not seeing this option even after I log into my tivo account.


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## DrewTivo (Mar 30, 2005)

ah30k said:


> Does the cost go up for every unit sold?
> 
> I agree they are always spending R&D money but by definition if it does not vary with quantity then it is fixed.


Yes, that was my point, if not well written/put. Technically the guide data is fixed cost, but since they license on per user basis, to tivo it's not.

Customer support does need to be in there, agreed, so add that to the guide data price.

Basic point still stands, though.


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

DrewTivo said:


> Yes, that was my point, if not well written/put. Technically the guide data is fixed cost, but since they license on per user basis, to tivo it's not.
> 
> Customer support does need to be in there, agreed, so add that to the guide data price.
> 
> Basic point still stands, though.


I'm having a hard time understanding your point. Is it that TiVo is charging too much for guide data? Or is it that the only aspect of the TiVo service you value is guide data?

As I'm sure you'll agree, the TiVo service offers much more than guide data. Comparing today's TiVo operating environment to the original ones eight years ago, reveals many more differences.

My understanding is that today, the boxes are priced so that TiVo does make money on the sale of each box. Eight years ago, the prices of the boxes reflected a small loss on each sale, with the expectation the subscription prices would ultimately bring them the revenue they needed. The problem with the lifetime service, during that time frame, was that it did not bring in enough revenue to offset the support and development costs. And people kept their units for a lot longer than TiVo ever anticipated.

Clearly, the market situation today is very different in that TiVo must continue to justify the prices of the service they offer by differentiating and providing a user experience that is valued, to some, at something higher than a more commodity offering.

There really isn't any 'right and wrong' here in that some people prefer the additional features and functionality, or prefer the user-interface, and are willing to pay a premium for it. Others don't value it, and would prefer a more commodity-oriented alternative at a lesser price.

But with all of that said, what does that have to do with the 'lifetime service' being resurrected? I think the point of the thread was that its now making sense for TiVo to offer that as an option, whereas several years ago, it was a losing proposition for TiVo to do so.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

At risk of wandering further off topic...


DrewTivo said:


> Technically the guide data is fixed cost, but since they license on per user basis, to tivo it's not.


I think guide data is variable since it does vary with the number of units calling in each month. If your TiVo does not call in every six months they will mark your account as inactive and stop paying royalties to Tribune.

By vary with units, I don't mean that the price gets cheaper at larger quantity (although I see how I could have made that impression); just that the total amount paid to Tribune is a function of q.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

tivoupgrade said:


> The problem with the lifetime service, during that time frame, was that it did not bring in enough revenue to offset the support and development costs. And people kept their units for a lot longer than TiVo ever anticipated.


There are many reasons why the above isn't close to a complete picture of the situation. Here are just a few:


Support is OK, but I don't want "development" if it means I get a product that becomes flakier over time.


I'm not a venture capitalist, I don't want my lifetime subscription to fund "development" of features (such as obtrusive advertising) that benefit TiVo much more than they do me.


In 2000, when I bought my first lifetime, TiVo was a flaky startup that was losing truckloads of money. Now, 8 years later, they're losing boatloads of money. Things have gotten worse. With that in mind, "lifetime" has a reasonable probability of meaning "lifetime of TiVo the company" rather than "lifetime of DVR". I should get a bit of a discount on my lifetime subscription for giving my money in advance to such a flaky company.


If you consider the *marginal* added cost of a lifetime subscription, I'm paying way too much. The guide data and servers aren't that expensive. The *vast majority* of my lifetime money is paying for inept ad campaigns, coast-to-coast flights for Tom Rogers, obscenely high "subscriber acquisition costs", and similar high dollar items that provide very little benefit to me.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> There
> I'm not a venture capitalist, I don't want my lifetime subscription to fund "development" of features (such as obtrusive advertising) that benefit TiVo much more than they do me.
> 
> 
> In 2000, when I bought my first lifetime, TiVo was a flaky startup that was losing truckloads of money. Now, 8 years later, they're losing boatloads of money. Things have gotten worse.


and yet here you are 8 years later - still complaining.
TiVo the company is still in business and significantly improving their financial picture with Tom Rogers running the business like a business.

If I felt like you did in what you posted - I would have switched years ago to some other DVR. Why have you not switched? What compels you to keep providing the venture capital?


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

Phantom Gremlin, Marginal costs only come into play for commodities not differentiated goods. The marginal costs of anything related to TiVo are irrelevant.


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## DrewTivo (Mar 30, 2005)

tivoupgrade said:


> I'm having a hard time understanding your point. Is it that TiVo is charging too much for guide data? Or is it that the only aspect of the TiVo service you value is guide data?


Someone had started a discussion of "tivo lite"--reduced fee for reduced service, and a response suggested that the price reflected the costs of providing service to customers. I was jumping off from there--lifetime probably better reflects the cost structure tivo faces, since most of the costs of tivo's service are fixed--adding another box does not cost tivo anything (development of software, new software, etc.), with the exception of guide data and customer service. But, tivo prices its boxes so that people pay over time for some of these costs rather than paying it all up front (unless they buy lifetime).


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

wblynch said:


> Funny that there are several free Electronic Program Guides for home PCs. It's truly difficult for me to believe that the value of a guide can be more than $3 to $5 a month.
> 
> TiVo should offer a Tivo Lite where all you get is the guide and no extras. (like the stupid Music Plus videos, the 360 Radio stations and the Suggestions)


"Value" is whatever people are willing to pay.

TiVo has already offered "TiVo Lite", called TiVo Basic, which is a "Lifetime" free limited version of TiVo service on two brands (Toshiba and Pioneer) of TiVo powered DVD/HDD recorders. Both are now discontinued but are available 2nd hand on eBay.

TiVo Basic has only 2 days of EPG, no search capabilities, no Season Passes, and only 1 active input. It's great!

I use two "Basic" Toshiba recorders to simultaneously record hi-def sourced programs "on the fly" from Series 3 TiVo's when I want to save them to DVD. The resulting DVD's are incredibly quick and easy to produce, look good, are anamorphic, and no computer skills are required!


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Phantom Gremlin or anyone else,

So do you think your employer gets to tell you how to spend the money they pay you for your labor? I think not. Unless you are a TiVo stock holder what TiVo does with the money it collects from the sale of subscriptions/hardware is non of your business. 

Producers (TiVo) get to decide what they are willing to produce and what they are willing to accept as payment for it. Consumers (us) get to decide if we are willing to take the deal or not. 

How much it costs to produce something does not set the selling price. What the "market" is willing to pay for the product/service ultimately does set the price. When the market is unwilling to pay a price high enough to entice the producer to continue producing the product then the product is no longer produced.

From a consumers point of view I am glad the lifetime service option is back, but TiVo should only be offering it because they believe it is in TiVo's best financial interest to do so. 

Thanks,


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

atmuscarella said:


> Phantom Gremlin or anyone else,
> 
> So do you think your employer gets to tell you how to spend the money they pay you for your labor? I think not. Unless you are a TiVo stock holder what TiVo does with the money it collects from the sale of subscriptions/hardware is non of your business.
> 
> ...


I agree with this.

I can understand why, as consumers, we might want some new feature or a different/less-expensive pricing plan. But in the end, we vote with our dollars, and just because I might want a specific feature or a cheaper price, that doesn't mean it is in TiVo's best interest to do so. And ultimately, what is in their best interest is probably in the best interest of their customers; I'd like them to continue to be around to provide the service that I do pay for, and value, with my dollars.

Are they perfect in their offerings? Definitely not, but I have a lot less gripes with them compared to my content provider; I pay $90 / month and only watch about 5% of the channels that are offered. Nor am I particularly happy with the options and pricing offered by my cell phone carrier; I don't even use my voicemail, call forwarding, and barely even use the "phone" part of my smartphone. But I have to take the bad with the good if I want the features that I value...

[edit] As an aside, every now and then a potential customer asks me for something for free or at a significant discount based upon the logic that it doesn't cost me anything. I've never quite understood that position; as a small business owner, with a couple of employees, we need to make money to survive. If we had investors, it would require even more. Selling stuff is how we make our money and offset the costs of not just the goods we sell, but also the costs of advertising, running payroll, paying unemployment insurance, etc. Its no different than any other business.


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## wblynch (Aug 13, 2003)

I keep reading responses that sound as if they were scripted from Tivo, Inc. justifying Tivo's strategy.

The only thing is... evidently Tivo continues to lose money.

Perhaps if Tivo were to open their minds to suggestions from their customers they could improve their financial position?

As Madman Muntz used to say, "Folks, I lose money on every sale but I make it up in volume!"


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

wblynch said:


> Perhaps if Tivo were to open their minds to suggestions from their customers they could improve their financial position.


Which suggestions were they again? I don't seem to recall any that would include increasing revenue and/or cutting costs. Maybe I'm just forgetful.

Let's see what I can remember... People don't like ads on their screen, they don't like paying more per month, they don't like commitments, they do like lifetime but only if it is cheap, they want old lifetimes to transfer to new units for free, they want more feature development for the S1 to handle digital tuners and more development for the S2 and S3, they want an S4 like yesterday (for less than the S3 was launched at)...


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## makeinu (Nov 24, 2006)

ah30k said:


> Does the cost go up for every unit sold?
> 
> I agree they are always spending R&D money but by definition if it does not vary with quantity then it is fixed.


I believe that the context was fixed relative to monthly usage. The fact that the cost of the software does not vary with each unit is a reason why it _shouldn't_ be included in the price of each unit, not a reason why it should be.

The cost of developing software and keeping it up to date increases with each month of usage, hence being included in the monthly fee, rather than the initial fee of the unit.



DrewTivo said:


> Someone had started a discussion of "tivo lite"--reduced fee for reduced service, and a response suggested that the price reflected the costs of providing service to customers. I was jumping off from there--lifetime probably better reflects the cost structure tivo faces, since most of the costs of tivo's service are fixed--adding another box does not cost tivo anything (development of software, new software, etc.), with the exception of guide data and customer service. But, tivo prices its boxes so that people pay over time for some of these costs rather than paying it all up front (unless they buy lifetime).


Following this logic to it's end you're basically saying that the Tivo experience should be priced at:
1. A one time fee to purchase the box.
2. A single monthly subscription per configuration to pay for the guide data, software development, etc for that particular configuration. Identical configurations should be free because they only require duplicate guide data, software, etc. For example, whereas a TivoHD needs different software than a Series 2 and two Series 2s in two different households may each require different software to be compatible with the cable box, local programming, etc, two Series 2s recording the same service in the same house can use the same software and the same guide data.

The only thing that Tivo is doing right now that doesn't meet this specification is that the multiservice pricing isn't free when running duplicate units in identical setups.

I agree, but how many people really have more than one of the exact same unit being used with the exact same cable box, etc, etc? I know I don't, which is why I personally don't have a problem with the philosophy of Tivo's pricing structure. If I did I'd probably stop purchasing from Tivo.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

Uh, makeinu, where is the shareholder return on investment captured in your pricing model?


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## makeinu (Nov 24, 2006)

ah30k said:


> Uh, makeinu, where is the shareholder return on investment captured in your pricing model?


Add percent markup to taste and serve.

Profit is, obviously, necessary for any business, but not making it discreet only generates bad will from the customers. Percent markup is the most discreet way to profit.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

makeinu said:


> Add percent markup to taste and serve.


Ah, therein lies the rub. I imagine the taste of the shareholders will be different from the taste of this forum membership. Since much of this discussion is about the price of the service I imagine that would be an important variable.


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

wblynch said:


> I keep reading responses that sound as if they were scripted from Tivo, Inc. justifying Tivo's strategy.


Do you think that those of us who are supportive of TiVo's current strategy are following some sort of script? We support it and are capable of verbalizing that. Whether we are right or not may be another question, but an opinion is an opinion.

I have been following TiVo since 1999, and have also been a stock holder for quite some time. I also happen to think TiVo has significantly improved their offerings and their financial position in the past several years.

Admittedly, I have not recently read an annual or quarterly report, however the last time I checked, the margin of their losses has decreased and the investment community seems to be supportive of the direction of the company; their current stock price also reflects this.

I have always felt that TiVo faced a particular challenge with their attempts to execute a 'differentiated product strategy' as their market became commodity. This was the same challenge that SGI faced in the mid-90's and they failed at it - and some of that DNA was definitely brought into TiVo's genetics when they were founded.

Even today, especially with the economic climate being what it is, it appears to be a challenge to command that value with their current value - I can tell you that is true based upon the number of people I know, even friends, who just stick with their generic DVR's vs using TiVo.

Personally, I don't think lowering their prices and giving people "more for less" will allow them to be viable; they would not be able to sustain the R&D effort and would not increase their volumes sufficiently by watering down their offerings, they just don't have the reach.

Beyond that, the jury is out, from my perspective. I am just glad that it appears they can now financially justify offering the lifetime subscription option again, it was not viable for quite some time, and it now appears to be viable. Perhaps there will be more good surprises around the corner.


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## makeinu (Nov 24, 2006)

ah30k said:


> Ah, therein lies the rub. I imagine the taste of the shareholders will be different from the taste of this forum membership. Since much of this discussion is about the price of the service I imagine that would be an important variable.


Yes, but I imagine the forum membership would be happier to conclude that the product is overpriced than unfairly/deceptively priced.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Just for the record I have no connection to TiVo in anyway - I have owned TiVo stock in the past and made money doing so, but do not currently own any. My problem maybe I just don't see TiVo costing that much for what I get. My DVRs cost me the following: 

Dish 510 (not a TiVo):................$120 plus $6/mo for service
Humax Series 2 TiVo:..................Free after rebate plus $300 for lifetime service
TiVo Series 2:............................Free after rebate plus $7/mo for service
TiVo HD with wireless adapter:......$200 plus $300 for lifetime service

All the DVRs where purchased new and were/are well worth their cost to me. I have to time shift 100% of what I watch due to my work schedule plus I am not sure I could ever stand watching live TV again. 

Thanks,


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## kmill14 (Dec 11, 2006)

For what its worth, TiVo most likely lumps their cost for guide data (amongst some other items I suppose) into a line called "Cost of Service Revenues". Without reading their 10Q report, I am 90% certain that is where they would put it. That Cost of Service Revenues figure runs at about $43mil this past year, and at an average of 4.1million subscribers (that they count) that is less than $11 a year per subscriber for TiVo's ongoing cost of running that box.


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## jk5598224 (Jan 29, 2003)

I am to understand correctly that Lifetime for a second unit is now 299.00? I bought a HDTivo in December and payed 399.00 Lifetime, and so now it is $299.00?? Can I get a credit at all?


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## wblynch (Aug 13, 2003)

Bringing back lifetime subs and lowering the cost for additional units per account to $299 is a great thing.

Some things I have seen mentioned...
Multiple Tivos in one home could share guide data from the master Tivo
Tivo LITE - guide/season pass only, no doodads
Give owners control to adjust their UI (colors/fonts...)

These are simple ways Tivo could lower their costs and improve the customer experience.

R&D money is wasted on features that have limited appeal. If they provide additional revenue streams (Amazon Unbox or Advertisements) then they should be vendor funded and not passed onto the customer base.

I wish I could turn off all the "extras".

I have no information on Scientific Atlantic or Motorola or other DVR manufacturers but it doesn't seem like they're losing money.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> and yet here you are 8 years later - still complaining.
> TiVo the company is still in business and significantly improving their financial picture with Tom Rogers running the business like a business.
> 
> If I felt like you did in what you posted - I would have switched years ago to some other DVR. Why have you not switched? What compels you to keep providing the venture capital?


Yes, I'm still complaining. I'm complaining because of the way the arguments are being framed here. I feel that a Dr. Phil quote is in order: "Don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining."

I keep providing the venture capital because TiVo is still the best solution to my needs. If I could get access to content encrypted by cablecards by using a program like Myth TV, I'd switch in a flash.


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## desiboy (Oct 3, 2007)

Straight out off TiVo's 1Q Transcript...

"...Additionally, as many of you know, over the last six months we have been offering to our sub base a product lifetime option with some success. Because of this we have made the decision to re-introduce the option for all potential customers. We recognize that there are some customers that like the idea of paying for service up front and we like the concept of up-front cash with lower churn risk. Currently we are offering product lifetime at $399 for new customers and at $299 for our current pays. As we have indicated before, TiVo HD is priced in a way that involves a far smaller subsidy of hardware giving us greater flexibility in our service pricing strategies...."


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Yes, I'm still complaining. I'm complaining because of the way the arguments are being framed here. I feel that a Dr. Phil quote is in order: "Don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining."
> 
> I keep providing the venture capital because TiVo is still the best solution to my needs. If I could get access to content encrypted by cablecards by using a program like Myth TV, I'd switch in a flash.


so staying at the forefront and in some ways leading the move to cable cards and legit content downloads is wasted R&D but somehow TiVo is still the best solution. Seems like someone is calling lemonade piss-water to me.


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## brettatk (Oct 11, 2002)

jk5598224 said:


> I am to understand correctly that Lifetime for a second unit is now 299.00? I bought a HDTivo in December and payed 399.00 Lifetime, and so now it is $299.00?? Can I get a credit at all?


Yes. Yes. No.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

atmuscarella said:


> From a consumers point of view I am glad the lifetime service option is back, but TiVo should only be offering it because they believe it is in TiVo's best financial interest to do so.


And why would anyone believe anything else?

It's amazing how much smarter some TiVo Forum posters (not atmuscarella) believe they are compared with TiVo's management!


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

wblynch said:


> Some things I have seen mentioned...
> Multiple Tivos in one home could share guide data from the master Tivo


If they can license the guide data that way. 


> Tivo LITE - guide/season pass only, no doodads


Tivo doesn't want to do that. They rely on the core DVR functionality be pay, as part of their business model. They would need a major investor or partnership to infuse funding to change that.

Offering a "lite" service might not make them much money for the expense.


> Give owners control to adjust their UI (colors/fonts...)


That will cost them R&D money for no gain.


> I wish I could turn off all the "extras".


I just stay out of the HMO/HME menu. I need nothing there. Some probably pay to be there, or at least TiVo has some sort of placement deal.


> I have no information on Scientific Atlantic or Motorola or other DVR manufacturers but it doesn't seem like they're losing money.


Their costs are basically subsidized by subscription to the cable service.


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## hunter69 (Feb 9, 2002)

Tivo made the mistake of producing a quality product. If they had made a product that failed after 3 or 4 years, the lifetime plan would work out for everyone. They keep income rolling in the door, and the people that want to not have monthly fees can pay a lump sum.

With 5 lifetime subs ranging from a S1 to a HD, I am grateful that they did make the wrong decision to create something durable, and allow user repairs in the case of most failures.


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## petew (Jul 31, 2003)

wblynch said:


> Tivo LITE - guide/season pass only, no doodads


Rather than Tivo LITE I'd like to see the old S2's resused as a Tivo MRV Client, I'd willing pay $50-$100 to convert a paid up S2 into a view only box. No Guide Data, No season Passes, Just the ability to view shows xfered from other subscribed boxes on the account with no monthly fee. A daily service call wouldn't be necessary and the only guide data would be that xfered with the recording so there shouldn't be any ongoing cost to Tivo.


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## NotVeryWitty (Oct 3, 2003)

petew said:


> Rather than Tivo LITE I'd like to see the old S2's resused as a Tivo MRV Client, I'd willing pay $50-$100 to convert a paid up S2 into a view only box. No Guide Data, No season Passes, Just the ability to view shows xfered from other subscribed boxes on the account with no monthly fee. A daily service call wouldn't be necessary and the only guide data would be that xfered with the recording so there shouldn't be any ongoing cost to Tivo.


This is a great idea. Sign me up! :up::up::up:


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

wblynch said:


> ...I have no information on Scientific Atlantic or Motorola or other DVR manufacturers but it doesn't seem like they're losing money.


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## cryptmagic (Apr 30, 2002)

Question for you guys can i buy a tivo from amazon.com and then get the lifetime subscription? I already have a couple tivos, just noticed if buy from amazon i save 75 per box, and no tax or shipping?


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## Hokie-Dave (Feb 19, 2006)

cryptmagic said:


> Question for you guys can i buy a tivo from amazon.com and then get the lifetime subscription? I already have a couple tivos, just noticed if buy from amazon i save 75 per box, and no tax or shipping?


Shouldn't be a problem. I bought mine from Costco and got it lifetimed..


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## brettatk (Oct 11, 2002)

I dont see a problem either. When you go to tivo.com and enter the TSN of the Tivo you bought lifetime should be an option provided you already have atleast one other Tivo activated on your account.


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## NA9D (May 26, 2008)

cryptmagic said:


> Question for you guys can i buy a tivo from amazon.com and then get the lifetime subscription? I already have a couple tivos, just noticed if buy from amazon i save 75 per box, and no tax or shipping?


I bought mine from a flea market vendor and put a ilfetime on it...


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## gadgetfan (Oct 23, 2003)

brettatk said:


> I dont see a problem either. When you go to tivo.com and enter the TSN of the Tivo you bought lifetime should be an option provided you already have atleast one other Tivo activated on your account.


Since I'm thinking about doing the same thing, I just want to confirm the above: you must already have an active Tivo in order to be able to activate a lifetime subscription on a new one purchased at a retail outlet? So the only way for a Tivo newbie to get lifetime service is to buy direct from Tivo?


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## brettatk (Oct 11, 2002)

gadgetfan said:


> Since I'm thinking about doing the same thing, I just want to confirm the above: you must already have an active Tivo in order to be able to activate a lifetime subscription on a new one purchased at a retail outlet? So the only way for a Tivo newbie to get lifetime service is to buy direct from Tivo?


In order to get the lifetime for $299 you would have to have another tivo on the account. If this is your first Tivo I believe you could still add lifetime to it but for $399. This is just speculation, hopefully someone who has done this will chime in.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

brettatk said:


> In order to get the lifetime for $299 you would have to have another tivo on the account. If this is your first Tivo I believe you could still add lifetime to it but for $399. This is just speculation, hopefully someone who has done this will chime in.


You are correct !!


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## gadgetfan (Oct 23, 2003)

lessd said:


> You are correct !!


Excellent. I've actually got an SD-H400 that only has the Basic service on it, but with the return of lifetime service, we're thinking about picking up a Tivo HD and lifetime, even if we don't have the HDTV to go along with it just yet. If nothing else, we'd be able to take advantage of having a dual-tuner unit.

Just bummed that we missed out on the Fry's deal a few weeks back...we're just a few miles away from one.


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## MarkF2 (Jan 5, 2006)

I'm curious how you guys think this would play out.

I have an S2 as my primary paying $14/mo (rounding) and my HD is my MSD and I'm paying $7/month. I'd like to get a lifetime on the HD which I should be able to get for $299 b/c I have the S2 on the account. Once the lifetime for $299 is active can I cancel the service on the S2?

Thanks


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## MarkF2 (Jan 5, 2006)

MarkF2 said:


> I'm curious how you guys think this would play out.
> 
> I have an S2 as my primary paying $14/mo (rounding) and my HD is my MSD and I'm paying $7/month. I'd like to get a lifetime on the HD which I should be able to get for $299 b/c I have the S2 on the account. Once the lifetime for $299 is active can I cancel the service on the S2?
> 
> Thanks


Oh yeah and then after I have the $299 lifetime I want to add the S2 back in for $7 under MSD, is that possible?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

MarkF2 said:


> Oh yeah and then after I have the $299 lifetime I want to add the S2 back in for $7 under MSD, is that possible?


I doubt you'll be able to get the $6.95/month MSD rate on the S2; after you do what you describe your choices will probably only be the new $9.95/month rate or the $99/year MSD rates.


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## Hokie-Dave (Feb 19, 2006)

MarkF2 said:


> I'm curious how you guys think this would play out.
> 
> I have an S2 as my primary paying $14/mo (rounding) and my HD is my MSD and I'm paying $7/month. I'd like to get a lifetime on the HD which I should be able to get for $299 b/c I have the S2 on the account. Once the lifetime for $299 is active can I cancel the service on the S2?
> 
> Thanks


Did you do a 3yr commitment to get the $6.95 rate, or have you had it for quite a while (probably not since it is an HD). The problem here is that I don't think you will be able to move the HD to lifetime unless you break the MSD contract which would have a cancellation payment.

Here is how I can see this working. Find a free or almost free S1 or S2. Replace the MSD'ed HD with this machine (cancel HD sub). Lifetime the HD. Cancel your $14/month HD. Replace the free or almost free S1/2 that you just put on MSD (6.95) with your S2.

I think this should be legal and should be able to accomplish all online. (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong).


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

I had my HD unit moved to lifetime this week. I haven't owned it for even a year but was on the 6.95 three year plan. There was no problem what so ever. She mentioned that it was breaking the 3 year commitment (which I had forgotten about) and said something along the lines of "of course, that is not a problem" and moved on.

To be clear there was no cancellation charge or issue with breaking the 3 year commitment in order to move to lifetime.


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## radioflyer410 (Nov 24, 2006)

Not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere but Amazon is currently selling the Tivo HD for $228 w/free shipping. You have to add to cart to see the price. This is from Amazon, not a 3rd party seller.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

fallingwater said:


>


What I want to know is, how did that guy extract a Tivocast from his Tivo?


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

radioflyer410 said:


> Not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere but Amazon is currently selling the Tivo HD for $228 w/free shipping. You have to add to cart to see the price. This is from Amazon, not a 3rd party seller.


Ordered one on Tuesday. Got it yesterday, installed it, and activated it with lifetime.

Sweet.

Though it wasn't from Amazon it was from 6Ave when I ordered it. Also it was slightly cheaper.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

steve614 said:


> What I want to know is, how did that guy extract a Tivocast from his Tivo?


PC capture card is a good bet. A better question is why bother uploading it to YouTube when it's available on David Pogue's blog.


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## MarkF2 (Jan 5, 2006)

Hokie-Dave said:


> Did you do a 3yr commitment to get the $6.95 rate, or have you had it for quite a while (probably not since it is an HD). The problem here is that I don't think you will be able to move the HD to lifetime unless you break the MSD contract which would have a cancellation payment.
> 
> Here is how I can see this working. Find a free or almost free S1 or S2. Replace the MSD'ed HD with this machine (cancel HD sub). Lifetime the HD. Cancel your $14/month HD. Replace the free or almost free S1/2 that you just put on MSD (6.95) with your S2.
> 
> I think this should be legal and should be able to accomplish all online. (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong).


Well I just called up and said I wanted to switch to lifetime on my Tivo HD and she said the only catch is I don't have a 30 day cancellation. I said that was fine and the whole transaction was done in 2 minutes.

Now I'm going to call back in a week or 2 and see if I can get an MSD discount on the S2.

I also do have a second S2 that I can do the swap with.

I am also considering getting another Tivo HD and getting lifetime on that one too.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

MarkF2, you just lost $7/month MSD. Should have done what Hokie-Dave suggested.


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## MarkF2 (Jan 5, 2006)

c3 said:


> MarkF2, you just lost $7/month MSD. Should have done what Hokie-Dave suggested.


Well I sort of got screwed. They did add the lifetime but it was effective in 2010 AFTER my $7 3 year deal was over. I called TIVO to ask to cancel my lifetime order because of the 2 year delay, which they said they did (I'll fight it with the credit card if they didn't).

I may still try what hokie-dave suggested since I have an extra S2 sitting around, but there are going to be case notes on my account since it was a big deal to cancel the lifetime order.

The second rep was real nice and basically said I got screwed by that 3 year $7 deal, b/c of the termination fee. I did ask him if I can transfer it (3 year deal) to another unit and he said yes. Tonight I will try to move the 3 year deal onto my spare S2, effectively cancel service on my HD and then tomorrow I'll try to buy the lifetime on the HD.


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## MarkF2 (Jan 5, 2006)

I just did the whole transaction online, shifting all of my plans around, added the lifetime on my HD, put the $7 on the S2 in use and the month to month on my spare S2


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## Hokie-Dave (Feb 19, 2006)

MarkF2 said:


> I just did the whole transaction online, shifting all of my plans around, added the lifetime on my HD, put the $7 on the S2 in use and the month to month on my spare S2


Sounds exactly like I suggested. Glad it worked.

dave


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## MarkF2 (Jan 5, 2006)

Yup, just canceled my spare worked out perfectly.

Thanks for the idea.

Now I have an HD with lifetime and my S2 with 3 years @ $7 with 2 years to go.



Hokie-Dave said:


> Sounds exactly like I suggested. Glad it worked.
> 
> dave


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## hunter69 (Feb 9, 2002)

Where online is the option to change to lifetime? I know I can call, but was looking for an online solution.

Thanks


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## MarkF2 (Jan 5, 2006)

hunter69 said:


> Where online is the option to change to lifetime? I know I can call, but was looking for an online solution.
> 
> Thanks


I couldn't find it when I wanted to change. However it was there when I went to add a unit.

That is why I had to put my spare into play.


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## Hokie-Dave (Feb 19, 2006)

MarkF2 said:


> I couldn't find it when I wanted to change. However it was there when I went to add a unit.
> 
> That is why I had to put my spare into play.


I believe that is correct. Is your current TiVo still under contract? Or is it on a month to month w/ no contract? The only way I saw the lifetime available option was to add a new unit as well. But if you only have one unit, you can't cancel and then add lifetime to that online since you would then not be a customer and wouldn't get the $299 rate. The $299 rate may not even apply to you though. I think it may be for existing customers adding new units into service, not changing their existing unit to lifetime but I could be wrong.

dave


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## hunter69 (Feb 9, 2002)

Thanks for the info. I have 4 Tivos with Lifetime now, and an HD that has the contract ending the end of this month. I will just sit back and wait for my box to go to monthly and try again.


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

hunter69 said:


> Thanks for the info. I have 4 Tivos with Lifetime now, and an HD that has the contract ending the end of this month. I will just sit back and wait for my box to go to monthly and try again.


If you want you can call Tivo and have them change it to a lifetime now. That is what I did. You can't do it online but they will transfer the service with no fee etc. They did that for me. I had a HD that I have owned for less than a year on a three year commitment.


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## retired_guy (Aug 27, 2004)

I tried to buy lifetime for my HD which was about eight months into a three year %6.95 deal and the TiVo rep said there was no way for him to do it unless I paid the cancellation charge.



jakerock said:


> I had my HD unit moved to lifetime this week. I haven't owned it for even a year but was on the 6.95 three year plan. There was no problem what so ever. She mentioned that it was breaking the 3 year commitment (which I had forgotten about) and said something along the lines of "of course, that is not a problem" and moved on.
> 
> To be clear there was no cancellation charge or issue with breaking the 3 year commitment in order to move to lifetime.


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## wblynch (Aug 13, 2003)

I would think Tivo would be happy to get those $6.95 deals off the books!

But I guess common sense isn't all that common.


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## retired_guy (Aug 27, 2004)

It seems to depend upon which rep you get when you call since they did it for Jakerock. The guy who took my call actually took time to talk to someone else about it before coming back and saying there was no way it could be done on their system.


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## MarkF2 (Jan 5, 2006)

retired_guy said:


> It seems to depend upon which rep you get when you call since they did it for Jakerock. The guy who took my call actually took time to talk to someone else about it before coming back and saying there was no way it could be done on their system.


Ditto for me I had the same experience, the guy tried and asked around. I even mentioned that someone else converted w/o any fees or penalty and they guy said he was sorry, nothing he can do.

What stinks is 3 years at 6.95 = $250 and now for $299 you get lifetime.


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

I find it hard to believe that I got lucky when I called.

Only because that never happens.


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## mikea128 (Jun 15, 2008)

Is there any indication that the lifetime option is going away any time soon for new customers? 

When TiVo, Inc. has changed pricing structures in the past, how much warning has there been? I.E. if lifetime is going away, will we likely have some notice and a chance to jump in before it's gone again?

I ask all these questions because I'll be buying soon (next month or so), but definitely don't want to risk missing lifetime.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Everyone....don't forget there may be an advantage to being at $6.95 on a month to month contract of some sort, as opposed to going LT. LT is for the life of the box. If after some period of time a new type of TiVo comes out, you CANNOT transfer the lifetime to it. However, if you are on a M-T-M contract, and a new TiVo comes out, you shoudl be able to just buy the box at retail and do a TSN swap in "manage my account". That's how I have my TiVoHD at $6.95/mo. I have no desire to go LT on mine at this point.


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## TheLongshot (Jun 16, 2008)

jlb said:


> Everyone....don't forget there may be an advantage to being at $6.95 on a month to month contract of some sort, as opposed to going LT. LT is for the life of the box. If after some period of time a new type of TiVo comes out, you CANNOT transfer the lifetime to it. However, if you are on a M-T-M contract, and a new TiVo comes out, you shoudl be able to just buy the box at retail and do a TSN swap in "manage my account". That's how I have my TiVoHD at $6.95/mo. I have no desire to go LT on mine at this point.


It is this reason why I'm not sure if going lifetime is worth it or not. I just got a TivoHD with the three months free and I'm wondering if it is worth it to lifetime it if tru2way becomes a reality in a couple of years.

Course, CableCard was supposed to address the same problems, and that wasn't all that it was cracked up to be. Who knows if tru2way will be better.

Jason


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

mikea128 said:


> Is there any indication that the lifetime option is going away any time soon for new customers?
> 
> When TiVo, Inc. has changed pricing structures in the past, how much warning has there been? I.E. if lifetime is going away, will we likely have some notice and a chance to jump in before it's gone again?
> 
> I ask all these questions because I'll be buying soon (next month or so), but definitely don't want to risk missing lifetime.


Tivo just reinstated lifetime as a regular subscription option less than three months ago so I wouldn't imagine that it'll go away anytime soon.
As for any warnings in price changing, there isn't any warning at all, they just change it. However, when they entirely removed the lifetime option back in 2006, Tivo did give about a 30 day warning and then they extended it.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

jlb said:


> Everyone....don't forget there may be an advantage to being at $6.95 on a month to month contract of some sort, as opposed to going LT. LT is for the life of the box. If after some period of time a new type of TiVo comes out, you CANNOT transfer the lifetime to it. However, if you are on a M-T-M contract, and a new TiVo comes out, you shoudl be able to just buy the box at retail and do a TSN swap in "manage my account". That's how I have my TiVoHD at $6.95/mo. I have no desire to go LT on mine at this point.


I'm keeping a $6.95/mo Tivo that I don't even need because I just can't give up the rate.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

scandia101 said:


> I'm keeping a $6.95/mo Tivo that I don't even need because I just can't give up the rate.


Yep - I have a toshivo RS TX20 that I really only watch DVDs on since I got two DT boxes for the needed tuners. But I have not dropped it back to TiVo Basic since I wnat to pass on the 6.95 a mnth rate to a digital TiVo as I get more into that series line.


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## retired_guy (Aug 27, 2004)

I'm doing the same thing on my 810H; $6.95/monthly seems the best deal out there today; without it when the 3 year $6.95 lease on my HD expires, I'd have to either pay $9.95 monthly or $99 per year. Instead I plan to put the 810H back on TiVo Basic and transfer the $6.95 deal to the HD. It would perhaps turn out a bit cheaper to drop the 810H to Basic right now and pay the higher fee in 2+ years but I like the idea of keeping the $6.95 deal essentially "forever" as well as the flexibility of having full TiVo services on the 810H for now.


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## mikea128 (Jun 15, 2008)

scandia101 said:


> Tivo just reinstated lifetime as a regular subscription option less than three months ago so I wouldn't imagine that it'll go away anytime soon.
> As for any warnings in price changing, there isn't any warning at all, they just change it. However, when they entirely removed the lifetime option back in 2006, Tivo did give about a 30 day warning and then they extended it.


Thanks for the info! Looks like I don't have to be in any huge rush


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## shrpblnd (Jun 23, 2008)

What stinks is that when I got my Tivo HD, I was told they would "never" have lifetime again, so I signed up for the MSD for 3 years at $6.95.

Now, they won't let me break the contract and change to lifetime, so I am stuck with two more years before I can get out of it. I've tried calling multiple reps and none of them will budge.

This really ticks me off. I can't believe they treat their most loyal customers this way. I am sick and tired of TiVo's arrogance, and I will never buy another TIVO product again.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

shrpblnd said:


> What stinks is that when I got my Tivo HD, I was told they would "never" have lifetime again, so I signed up for the MSD for 3 years at $6.95.
> 
> Now, they won't let me break the contract and change to lifetime, so I am stuck with two more years before I can get out of it. I've tried calling multiple reps and none of them will budge.
> 
> This really ticks me off. I can't believe they treat their most loyal customers this way. I am sick and tired of TiVo's arrogance, and I will never buy another TIVO product again.


It's absurd to think that a CSR would know about unannounced policy changes.

Why would you think a contract should be broken?


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## shrpblnd (Jun 23, 2008)

I was told they would not be offering lifetime again. That was a direct quote from the CSR, and based on that information, I signed a contract. Less than one year later, they change the policy.

Okay, I get that circumstances change, but TiVo needs to take care of their loyal customers. They already got one year's worth of subscription money out of me. I am not asking for that money back. All I am asking is that I get the same treatment that a brand new purchaser of a HD TiVo would get, now today... not 2 more years from now.

I wouldn't think that is too much to ask, but apparently it is. On top of that you have some clear differential treatment depending on which agent you talk to. One person gets to break the contract, another one does not.

Not a good way to encourage loyalty in my book.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

shrpblnd said:


> I was told they would not be offering lifetime again. That was a direct quote from the CSR, and based on that information, I signed a contract. Less than one year later, they change the policy.


I'm surprised that your CSR personally guaranteed that they would never offer lifetime ever again, vs. sayaing something along the lines of "We don't plan on offering it", but regardless, it's not a good idea to base long term decisions based on what a CSR tells you.

Unless there is a stipulation in the contract, it didn't happen.


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## aus1ander (Sep 17, 2004)

Has anyone in a similar situation as mine figured out the answer to whether a discounted Lifetime subscription can become a "Qualified Device" under the MSD terms?

For example, I have an old series 1 with lifetime and my TiVo HD is now on an MSD for 6.95. I have a spare S2 sitting in a closet. If I swab in my S2 for the 6.95 MSD and activate the HD for lifetime ($299) and sell the old S1 (and it eventually disappears off my account when the buyer registers it), will my old 6.95 MSD revert to 12.95? Or will TiVo automatically charge me $100 more for lifetime?

Logic would say that Lifetime is Lifetime, no matter how much you paid for it (ie, I paid $299 for lifetime on the S1 back in 2001, so why shouldn't a discounted Lifetime not be a Qualified Subscription?). Even the fine print in the MSD terms defines Lifetime as a Qualifying Subscription and doesn't differentiate how it was bought...anyone actually do this and have any experiences?


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## pdonoghu (Mar 6, 2003)

Lifetime is lifetime. You primary box needs to be either on a full plan or lifetime to get MSD on the additional units.

What you want to do should work. As MSD is now $9.95/month, I think you can swap a TSN on an existing $6.95/month MSD. If you drop a unit and then add a new one, it will be at the higher price, so make sure you transfer your older price MSDs.


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## aus1ander (Sep 17, 2004)

I just decided to go ahead with it. The only reason I've been using the S1 was to keep my MSD price, so it makes sense to go with LT on the HD and keep the 6.95 plan as long as I can... might even buy another HD in a year or so and swab that in to my grandfathered MSD plan. I wonder how long TiVo will continue to let us do this...(keep grandfathered plans)


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

aus1ander said:


> Or will TiVo automatically charge me $100 more for lifetime?


Surely, you must be joking.


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

To qualify for the $299 lifetime price, do I have to buy the TiVo HD from TiVo directly, or can I buy it at another retailer and still qualify for lifetime at the discounted rate of $299?


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

modnar said:


> To qualify for the $299 lifetime price, do I have to buy the TiVo HD from TiVo directly, or can I buy it at another retailer and still qualify for lifetime at the discounted rate of $299?


If you qualify for MSD, it doesn't matter where you buy it.


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

Thanks!


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