# New DirecTv HDTiVo, when??



## dirk1843 (Jul 7, 2003)

Where are the ones in the know watching for a release date for the new DirecTv HDTiVo??


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## NickIN (Dec 26, 2002)

I would like to know too. But I doubt anybody knows more than 2nd half of 2009. Or more likely, the ones that possibly know like their jobs and don't want to lose them. Anyway...disappointed we didn't see a prototype at CES.


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## MighTiVo (Oct 26, 2000)

I just cancelled DTV and was told on that call they weren't coming until the end of the year.


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## melissa12345 (Sep 9, 2007)

i spoke to my directv guy and also a salesman from tivo today and both said sometime in September.


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

Based on recent announcements and rumors from CES, I think the best case is end of 2009. More likely, early 2010.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

As has been posted in several threads, Tivo CEO said at the Citi conference that it was delayed until 2010 and they refused to talk about it at all at CES. So take that as you will. Basically I wouldn't be counting on it for at least another year to year and a half.


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## MontyL (Dec 15, 2003)

Great... last I'd read was mid-year, sometime last fall, and she said we could wait. Good thing even standard def DirecTV is clean enough to display 80" diagonal. 

The wife won't allow anything that doesn't have a peanut remote in the house. 

(Yep, been here 5 years, have 5 total posts)


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

My guess is that it will be 2010 before it can complete a beta program and ship in quantity. If it is available sooner you might as well consider yourself a beta tester by getting one anytime this year. I bought one of the original HR10's when they were first released and wish I had waited 6 months or even 12 instead.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

MontyL said:


> Great... last I'd read was mid-year, sometime last fall, and she said we could wait. Good thing even standard def DirecTV is clean enough to display 80" diagonal.
> 
> The wife won't allow anything that doesn't have a peanut remote in the house.
> 
> (Yep, been here 5 years, have 5 total posts)


No promise that there will even be that type of remote on the unit when it comes out. Suspect that it will be more on the line of the current remotes so they don't have to stock another one for replacements

have 3 of those floating around in some junk drawer still with their original batteries, one of the first things I got rid of on the HR10's that I have


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

sjberra said:


> No promise that there will even be that type of remote on the unit when it comes out. Suspect that it will be more on the line of the current remotes so they don't have to stock another one for replacements
> 
> have 3 of those floating around in some junk drawer still with their original batteries, one of the first things I got rid of on the HR10's that I have


Yea, unless Tivo foots the bill I would highly doubt they (DirecTV) would have a different remote on this Tivo box then what they have now. Doesn't matter to me since all original remotes promptly get programmed into my universal and hit the remote graveyard box never to see the light of day again.


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## robpickles (May 19, 2005)

This probably means that Verizon FIOS will be ready in my area before this new DirecTv Tivo box comes out.

When it does, I might just go get myself that HD Tivo box that you can put the Verizon card in. Which model is that again? (Series 3 - MPEG4?)

Rob


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

It's now called TiVoHD (and TiVoHDXL). The "Series 3" model has been dropped.

Here in New Hampshire we will never see FiOS TV as Verizon abandoned northern New England entirely, and Fairpoint Communications, which took over the phone and network business, has no interest in TV service.


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## MontyL (Dec 15, 2003)

Probably should have went with "if it ain't TiVo, it ain't in the equipment stack", rather than use the peanut remote to describe it, but you got the idea.

Beta?!?! Where do I sign up? 

stevel: Sorry about that, but it was an executive decision to spin NH off to Fairpoint, possibly with some bias created by the state government itself. We want the baby to thrive, and any sticking point in either the community or state is liable to get the same response. I can't swear by it, but NH may be being used as an example of "they didn't want to play the game our way". Personally, I'm wondering why my own region hasn't been sold off in a similar manner, citing overbuild costs vs. coverage and take rates. Comcast is probably getting concerned about their losses to FIOS here in the northwest, but I'll likely never see it in my own neighborhood nor ever put my fiber qualifications to use...


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## melissa12345 (Sep 9, 2007)

Response (Mary G. - 100102577) - 01/25/2009 05:15 AM 
Dear melissa,

Thanks for writing. We are pleased to announce that we've reached an agreement with TiVo to extend our business relationship. This agreement will allow us to continue to support and develop TiVo products for our customers. As part of this agreement we will also be working with TiVo to develop a new HD DVR.

The details of this upcoming HD DVR are still being determined so we don't have all of the specifics yet but we can tell you that the new receiver will have:

Access to over 130 HD Channels
DIRECTV on Demand capability
TiVo's Universal Swivel Search
Tivo's Kidszone

We expect the new receiver to launch in the second half of 2009 and we will provide more information as soon as it is available. You can sign up to receive updates about the new TiVo HD DVR at http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/directv-signup.html.

Thanks again for writing.

Sincerely,

Mary G.
Employee ID 100102577
DIRECTV Customer Service

Make the most of DIRECTV by registering your account on directv.com. You'll learn about exclusive online promotions, new features of DIRECTV and the latest programs and packages. Visit www.directv.com/register today.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

melissa12345 said:


> Response (Mary G. - 100102577) - 01/25/2009 05:15 AM
> Dear melissa,


Yea, standard cut and paste from a CSR of what was in the press release last summer.

Latest word (per Tivo CEO) is early to mid 2010. However Tivo refused to even comment on it at CES so who knows at this point.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I may have spoken too soon about Fairpoint having no interest in TV. I read thid morning that they're doing a pilot of fiber-based TV in Portsmouth and that, if successful, they'll expand it to other fiber-installed customers. I won't hold my breath.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

shibby191 said:


> Yea, standard cut and paste from a CSR of what was in the press release last summer.
> 
> Latest word (per Tivo CEO) is early to mid 2010. However Tivo refused to even comment on it at CES so who knows at this point.


Since this tail continues to grow in the telling and since Roger's comment was unclear and may have contradicted TiVo's statements in their SEC filings, I sent a message to Derrick Nueman with TiVo investor relations. I asked whether Rogers' comment at the Citi Media conference indicated that the new DirecTV TiVo would be delayed until 2010.

He responds, "Our goal remains to have the DirecTV TiVo available in the second half of 2009." That is the latest word from TiVo.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

It's good to have goals.


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

nrc said:


> Since this tail continues to grow in the telling and since Roger's comment was unclear and may have contradicted TiVo's statements in their SEC filings, I sent a message to Derrick Nueman with TiVo investor relations. I asked whether Rogers' comment at the Citi Media conference indicated that the new DirecTV TiVo would be delayed until 2010.
> 
> He responds, "Our goal remains to have the DirecTV TiVo available in the second half of 2009." That is the latest word from TiVo.


Of course thats their goal, the big question is, how realistic is the goal?


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

How many months before release would they have to have beta testing for this to happen?


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## MighTiVo (Oct 26, 2000)

MontyL said:


> Great... last I'd read was mid-year, sometime last fall, and she said we could wait. Good thing even standard def DirecTV is clean enough to display 80" diagonal.
> 
> The wife won't allow anything that doesn't have a peanut remote in the house.
> 
> (Yep, been here 5 years, have 5 total posts)


I thought the same thing, until I switched to digital cable.
It was not available at my house until about 6 months ago, I would have stayed with DTV if they had allowed all the normal S2 TiVo functions on my S2 DTV TiVo (MRV, TTG, HMO, Unbox, YouTube, etc.)

Standard Def Analog Cable is worse than standard def DTV but most all Digital cable and certainly HD cable are incomparable. I have a tough time looking at the saved recordings on the cancelled DTV TiVo now.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

jimb726 said:


> Of course thats their goal, the big question is, how realistic is the goal?


They must have thought it was realistic when they signed the agreement in September.

This is well trodden ground for TiVo. They've worked with DirecTV on these same terms to develop DVRs multiple times in the past. They've been working with the DirecTV infrastructure for years.

And TiVo doesn't have to worry about the hardware. They're porting software to the DirecTV DVR that DirecTV specifies. Barring complications from deficiencies in the DirecTV DVR platform, this should be one of the most straightforward new products they've done.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

nrc said:


> And TiVo doesn't have to worry about the hardware. They're porting software to the DirecTV DVR that DirecTV specifies. Barring complications from deficiencies in the DirecTV DVR platform, this should be one of the most straightforward new products they've done.


That part seems to be ambigous at best. Is it the same box and just different software or is it a new box? News stories have implied both. My current impression is that it is new hardware and not just software.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

HiDefGator said:


> That part seems to be ambigous at best. Is it the same box and just different software or is it a new box? News stories have implied both. My current impression is that it is new hardware and not just software.


And which is harder? Producing a platform with Tivo software that fits the bill for DTV, or shoehorning Tivo software into an existing or evolutionary HR2x platform? The latter seems to be more daunting to me.


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

nrc said:


> And TiVo doesn't have to worry about the hardware. They're porting software to the DirecTV DVR that DirecTV specifies. Barring complications from deficiencies in the DirecTV DVR platform, this should be one of the most straightforward new products they've done.


Yeah right, because that Tivo software port to the comcast DVR has worked out oh so well.

NOT!!!


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

bengalfreak said:


> Yeah right, because that Tivo software port to the comcast DVR has worked out oh so well.
> 
> NOT!!!


Rogers was quoted as saying that the DTV port will not be a download trying to run atop the DVR native software and a third party stack the way the Comcast DVR does.

He implied that it will be the native software for the box and thus will not be field installable in place of the existing DVR software.

I heard this on a web recording of him speaking at a Hidden Gems conference months ago. They also sell a transcript, but I didn't want to pop for that. Feel free to find it and listen, you may get a different interpretation than I did. His discussion of the DTV DVR was about half way through the recording.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

HiDefGator said:


> That part seems to be ambigous at best. Is it the same box and just different software or is it a new box? News stories have implied both. My current impression is that it is new hardware and not just software.


It may be an existing DirecTV DVR or it may be a new DVR that DirecTV has under development. That will be DirecTV's choice. But whichever DVR they pick, DirecTV will provide the DVR and the documentation for development.

Obviously if they pick a new DVR platform as the target and there are delays to it that would impact TiVo's effort. DirecTV has reason to avoid that since they're obligated to pay TiVo according to the original schedule if there are "non-TiVo delays".


> 2.10 TE Solution Development. Subject to the terms and conditions of this Section 2.10, TiVo shall develop the TE Solution as set forth in the TE Solution Statement of Work (as amended by any mutually agreed PCR related thereto) for use with the designated DIRECTV DVR Platform as set forth below. Notwithstanding anything herein, any issue or dispute concerning or relating to the development of the TE Solution Statement of Work as provided for herein shall not be subject to arbitration pursuant to Section 3.11 below.
> (a) TE Solution Statement of Work Contents. Unless otherwise mutually agreed by the Parties, the TE Solution Statement of Work will include, at a minimum, the following elements: (i) a designation of the first DIRECTV DVR Platform for the TE Solution using the DVR platform used by a DIRECTV manufacturer for one of the following DIRECTV DVR models: [*] ;





> (b) TE Solution Statement of Work Development. The Parties will develop the TE Solution Statement of Work in accordance with this Section 2.10(b). Promptly after the Restatement Effective Date (and in any event no later than [*] following the Restatement Effective Date) and thereafter until execution of the TE Solution Statement of Work, DIRECTV shall provide TiVo access to a project manager and such technical and other information as is reasonably necessary to complete a preliminary version of the TE Solution Statement of Work. DIRECTV shall use commercially reasonably efforts to provide such information to TiVo on a timely basis. In the case that the [*] or [*] is designated as the first DIRECTV DVR Platform for the TE Solution, such access shall include [*] of the applicable DIRECTV DVR model suitable for development, along with access to relevant Platform Documentation for the [*] or [*] , as applicable. If the [*] is designated as the first DIRECTV DVR Platform for the TE Solution, promptly after the Restatement Effective Date, and in any event no later than the timeframe set forth in Section 2.11(b)(ii), DIRECTV shall provide TiVo with relevant Platform Documentation for the [*] and [*] for such model suitable for development.


[*] marks information redacted from the filing.

http://investor.tivo.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=1193125-08-251359

Based on paragraph b it sounds as though DirecTV is chosing between three models. The first two sound as though they are already in production and the third is likely in functional prototype stage.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

nrc said:


> Based on paragraph b it sounds as though DirecTV is chosing between three models. The first two sound as though they are already in production and the third is likely in functional prototype stage.


This is probably the best explanation I've heard of what they might be doing. You may be right. Maybe it is a software download but DTV knew by the time Tivo finished it they would be selling a new box that is currently under development. Thus the reference to a new box. Once the beta starts maybe we will know for sure what they are doing.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

HiDefGator said:


> This is probably the best explanation I've heard of what they might be doing. You may be right. Maybe it is a software download but DTV knew by the time Tivo finished it they would be selling a new box that is currently under development. Thus the reference to a new box. Once the beta starts maybe we will know for sure what they are doing.


Although the software will run on a DirecTV platform I'm pretty sure it won't be available as a software download. The agreement in the filing implies that the TiVo version of the box will have it's own front bezel and remote.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Of course things can change. Just like DirecTV canceling or delaying all but it's most critical capital projects. 

Assuming that DirecTV is supplying the hardware for Tivo to install on it could be something as simple as DirecTV has delayed getting the hardware out for 6 months or so to let the economy recover some. DirecTV has stated in the last few conference calls that they are working on a new hardware platform. So perhaps the Tivo software is to go on this new hardware that will accept both the DirecTV DVR+ and Tivo software depending on what the customer wants. And perhaps that new hardware platform has simply been delayed due to these budget cuts. Or it has been delivered to Tivo and they are having more problems then they thought getting Tivo to work on it. Who really knows at this point and frankly we never will.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

shibby191 said:


> Of course things can change. Just like DirecTV canceling or delaying all but it's most critical capital projects.


Obviously there's no guarantee that this new TiVo will meet the current goal of being available in the second half of this year. But it would be a bit of a blunder for DirecTV to select a new platform as the target and then delay that platform. The terms of the deal state that if there is a "non-TiVo delay" Tivo gets paid on schedule. If that includes the "substantially higher" minimum monthly fees that DirecTV will pay starting in 2010 then a platform delay might not represent much of a savings for DirecTV.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

I suspect that Tivo will end up getting paid whatever the minimum is either way. I don't see hoards of people that have never had a Tivo signing up to pay extra every month for a DirectTivo any faster than they are signing up to pay extra for a ComcasTivo. The difference just isn't there anymore to justify the extra fee.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

HiDefGator said:


> I suspect that Tivo will end up getting paid whatever the minimum is either way. I don't see hoards of people that have never had a Tivo signing up to pay extra every month for a DirectTivo any faster than they are signing up to pay extra for a ComcasTivo. The difference just isn't there anymore to justify the extra fee.


It's fair to say that many DTV subscribers are happy with their DTV DVR and won't switch to TiVo when it's available. It's also fair to say that anywhere you find consumer reviews of DirecTV's house DVRs you'll find lots of people who strongly dislike them. How will that translate to subs? Only time will tell.

By the time the new TiVo unit becomes available there will probably be around a million DTV subscribers left who still own TiVos and there will be three million subscribers who previously owned TiVos. A lot of those will gladly go with TiVo for the interface and dual live buffers if the cost is reasonable.

Certainly bringing subscribers back will take longer than transitioning them directly from a current TiVo DVR to the new model. That's why TiVo has good reason to stay on schedule. The difference between having this unit available in July and having it available in January is probably half a million subscribers at the end of this fiscal year.

Of course, if TiVo were allowed to bring it's full slate of features and content options there would be a laundry list of reasons to switch. Unfortunately this deal is the same as the previous deal so there's virtually no chance that DirecTV is going to allow MRV, TTG, Internet content, or anything else that falls very far from their current offerings.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Since DirecTV is already beta testing MRV, has deployed streaming to a local PC and Internet content is available, it's not as far away as you suggest. It has been said that TiVo's Swivel Search will be available, which implies some network features.

It would be nice to see full TTG-like features


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

stevel said:


> It would be nice to see full TTG-like features


I would hope such a feature will inter-operate with my existing S2 stand alone DVRs. From what you are saying, it may be just as likely, or possibly even more likely, that whatever they come up would inter-operate with their DVRs rather than series 2 units. I am hoping they find a way to make it work for both, but am not going to hold my breath for either. Thanks for the insight.


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