# The remote is weird



## Dan203

There are a few weird things about the remote...

1) Should have noticed this in the photos, but there is no play/pause or FF/RW buttons. In most apps this means you have to use the on screen controls, which is a bit disappointing.

2) It uses IR for control of the TV and receiver but it doesn't have any way to change the IR that I can find. I assume it must some how read the type of equipment you have via CEC, but it doesn't actually control via CEC because if you cover the end of the remote the TV/receiver functions don't work.

3) It appears to use a technology called ANT+ instead of BT. The description in the ANT+ app says it's mainly used by health and fitness trackers.

I was wrong about ANT+. It is BT. Not sure why that ANT+ service is installed by default.


----------



## cyterio

It does have have standard FF, REW, and Play/Pause, they just don’t label it. You use the directional pad left and right to FF and REW, and the Select/Enter button to pause. They should have put small graphics on the remote to denote this but they didn’t.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Dan203

cyterio said:


> It does have have standard FF, REW, and Play/Pause, they just don't label it. You use the directional pad left and right to FF and REW, and the Select/Enter button to pause. They should have put small graphics on the remote to denote this but they didn't.


No they don't. Those are just select and right/left. In some apps it works that way, but mainly just Netflix and Sling.

I paired a FireTV remote to mine and the buttons on it work as expected.


----------



## Dan203

I found an app called Button Mapper that allows you to assign different actions for buttons, including different actions for double and long presses. This might help with the lack of play/pause.


----------



## leiff

I wonder if that's the same app people used to re map the Netflix button on the nvidia shield remote


----------



## Dan203

leiff said:


> I wonder if that's the same app people used to re map the Netflix button on the nvidia shield remote


I tried to remap the Netflix button but it didn't work. I also tried long press versions of select, left and right but that caused a bit of weirdness in the UI. So I just remapped Skip to Pause/Play. That button doesn't really seem to be used much anyway.


----------



## Rikki_Rocket

Dan203 said:


> There are a few weird things about the remote...
> 
> 2) It uses IR for control of the TV and receiver but it doesn't have any way to change the IR that I can find. I assume it must some how read the type of equipment you have via CEC, but it doesn't actually control via CEC because if you cover the end of the remote the TV/receiver functions don't work.


Yes this is one feature I haven't seen mentioned much. Pairing the remote allows the power button to turn on/off my receiver *AND* my TV. Volume and mute buttons control my receiver. And it did it auto-magically, I didn't have to go through a bunch of setup screens to pick my receiver and TV manufacturer and try a bunch of codes like I had to on my Bolt.

Like you, I don't see a way to change the IR - but it's working properly right? - what exactly do you want to change?


----------



## cybergrimes

Rikki_Rocket said:


> Yes this is one feature I haven't seen mentioned much. Pairing the remote allows the power button to turn on/off my receiver *AND* my TV. Volume and mute buttons control my receiver. And it did it auto-magically, I didn't have to go through a bunch of setup screens to pick my receiver and TV manufacturer and try a bunch of codes like I had to on my Bolt.
> 
> Like you, I don't see a way to change the IR - but it's working properly right? - what exactly do you want to change?


I have CEC turned off due to some issues the Vizio implementation has caused with HDMI handshaking, etc. I was expecting a traditional code based setup like traditional TiVo or even the Nvidia Shield, also running Android TV.

It just sounds like this weird CEC to IR isn't going to allow for much troubleshooting.


----------



## cherry ghost

Rikki_Rocket said:


> Yes this is one feature I haven't seen mentioned much. Pairing the remote allows the power button to turn on/off my receiver *AND* my TV. Volume and mute buttons control my receiver. And it did it auto-magically, I didn't have to go through a bunch of setup screens to pick my receiver and TV manufacturer and try a bunch of codes like I had to on my Bolt.
> 
> Like you, I don't see a way to change the IR - but it's working properly right? - what exactly do you want to change?


My power button also turns both my TV and receiver on/off, but the volume button only controls the TV. I don't use the TV for volume. Also, the input button doesn't work on my TV or receiver.


----------



## babsonnexus

Rikki_Rocket said:


> Yes this is one feature I haven't seen mentioned much. Pairing the remote allows the power button to turn on/off my receiver *AND* my TV. Volume and mute buttons control my receiver. And it did it auto-magically, I didn't have to go through a bunch of setup screens to pick my receiver and TV manufacturer and try a bunch of codes like I had to on my Bolt.


Does it auto-magic know if you move it to a new TV? For instance, I think I want to do the setup on a TV without a receiver and then move it to a TV with a receiver. Will it auto-magic detect the change, or will I have to go through a setup process? What happens if I want to take it on the road with me when we can travel again?


----------



## Dan203

Rikki_Rocket said:


> Yes this is one feature I haven't seen mentioned much. Pairing the remote allows the power button to turn on/off my receiver *AND* my TV. Volume and mute buttons control my receiver. And it did it auto-magically, I didn't have to go through a bunch of setup screens to pick my receiver and TV manufacturer and try a bunch of codes like I had to on my Bolt.
> 
> Like you, I don't see a way to change the IR - but it's working properly right? - what exactly do you want to change?


I'd want the Input button to control the input of my receiver instead of my TV. That's how I have my Slide Pro setup for my Bolt.


----------



## spiderpumpkin

Can the Roamio or Roamio Slide Pro or Vox remotes be paired with new Stream 4K?


----------



## foghorn2

Looks like the remote manipulation options are not yet available in the android remote setup screens. I hope they fix this, not everyone uses CEC or has it.


----------



## Breadfan

Even with CEC the volume/mute buttons don’t do anything on my TCL TV. 
The power button will turn the TV on and off, though.


----------



## cybergrimes

foghorn2 said:


> Looks like the remote manipulation options are not yet available in the android remote setup screens. I hope they fix this, not everyone uses CEC or has it.


It's a pisser, the TiVo remote experience is the main reason I ordered.


----------



## foghorn2

I paired the Tivo remote to the Airtv mini 4k, it turns the tv and receiver off/on via CEC, but no volume controls.


----------



## wigglemans

Hopefully they make an update for the control to have the ability to control A/V receivers and sound systems


----------



## Dan203

Mine seems to be using IR. If I cover the end it doesn’t control the TV or the receiver. I tried all the various CEC options on both devices just to see what they did, but none of it mattered.


----------



## fredi

Dan203 said:


> ...I paired a FireTV remote to mine and the buttons on it work as expected.


I wonder if you can pair the TiVo Stream 4K remote to the FireTV?


----------



## BillyClyde

fredi said:


> I wonder if you can pair the TiVo Stream 4K remote to the FireTV?


Or to an AppleTV?


----------



## fredi

BillyClyde said:


> Or to an AppleTV?


That would be even better, I hate the AppleTV remote


----------



## babsonnexus

I am happy to report that the remote understood my TV and receiver situation perfectly with no programming whatsoever, so I'm impressed! My only concern at the moment is when my wife turned on the TV this morning, it changed the input to the Stream instead of the TiVo box on the main input that it was left on last night. I'm going to be monitoring this to see if it still happening. I think this might have something to do with CEC.


----------



## Dan203

BillyClyde said:


> Or to an AppleTV?


No. The AppleTV doesn't even see it. Even though I know it's in pairing mode because my iPad does. Must not be broadcasting the right type of device for AppleTV.


----------



## cherry ghost

babsonnexus said:


> I am happy to report that the remote understood my TV and receiver situation perfectly with no programming whatsoever, so I'm impressed! My only concern at the moment is when my wife turned on the TV this morning, it changed the input to the Stream instead of the TiVo box on the main input that it was left on last night. I'm going to be monitoring this to see if it still happening. I think this might have something to do with CEC.


Just curious, how did she turn on the TV; TiVo DVR remote, Stream 4K remote, or TV remote?


----------



## babsonnexus

cherry ghost said:


> Just curious, how did she turn on the TV; TiVo DVR remote, Stream 4K remote, or TV remote?


TiVo DVR Remote (Slide Gen 2), which uses IR for the TV and Receiver. Strangely, when she turned on the TV, a TiVo+ station was playing, but we definitely left it just sitting in the My Shows folder last night. Not sure what happened and have not had a chance to look yet today.


----------



## osu1991

babsonnexus said:


> I am happy to report that the remote understood my TV and receiver situation perfectly with no programming whatsoever, so I'm impressed! My only concern at the moment is when my wife turned on the TV this morning, it changed the input to the Stream instead of the TiVo box on the main input that it was left on last night. I'm going to be monitoring this to see if it still happening. I think this might have something to do with CEC.


I noticed that this morning on mine. I pushed the tivo button on my Roamio and the tv turned on and I saw HDMI 1 come up onscreen, when I came back in the room, the tv was on HDMI 2 and the Stream home screen was up.


----------



## cherry ghost

babsonnexus said:


> TiVo DVR Remote (Slide Gen 2), which uses IR for the TV and Receiver. Strangely, when she turned on the TV, a TiVo+ station was playing, but we definitely left it just sitting in the My Shows folder last night. Not sure what happened and have not had a chance to look yet today.





osu1991 said:


> I noticed that this morning on mine. I pushed the tivo button on my Roamio and the tv turned on and I saw HDMI 1 come up onscreen, when I came back in the room, the tv was on HDMI 2 and the Stream home screen was up.


I wonder if using the sleep function on the Stream 4K would stop that?


----------



## babsonnexus

cherry ghost said:


> I wonder if using the sleep function on the Stream 4K would stop that?


I think I figured out the issue, and it was all CEC related. I had to turn off CEC turning on and auto-turning off. Now CEC doesn't turn on, but everything still appears to be working when it comes to receiver controls. Thankfully, TV turns on and stays on the input. But yeah, I watched it turn on, stay for a second where it started, then change the input. Since I made the setting change (on the TV), it seems to be staying still.


----------



## Dan203

Yeah I had to turn off CEC on all my stuff to or I got weird behavior. The oddest thing is that even after doing that, and resetting it, it still automatically assigns the right code to the remote to control my TV. Even though it's plugged in to the receiver directly. So how does it know what TV I'm using if CEC is off?


----------



## cybergrimes

One of my main apps, Emby, is popping it's OSD whenever I press volume up or down. The volume change occurs still. I'll discuss with app devs if I decide to keep this.
Also, totally bummed out that this remote is smaller than a normal TiVo remote, ugh


----------



## BillyClyde

Dan203 said:


> Yeah I had to turn off CEC on all my stuff to or I got weird behavior. The oddest thing is that even after doing that, and resetting it, it still automatically assigns the right code to the remote to control my TV. Even though it's plugged in to the receiver directly. So how does it know what TV I'm using if CEC is off?


EDID?


----------



## Dan203

BillyClyde said:


> EDID?


I actually forgot about that. You're probably right. That's probably how they do it. The weirdness with which option it chooses for which button probably has to do with which devices actually respond with EDID metadata.


----------



## Ed Starfire

I also find the remote weird, my opinion thus far:
1. The center navigation wheel should be a different color. 
2. Most of the buttons are unnecessary. why #s? why Netflix (defeats the content-centric philosophy)? many other buttons - just seems like homage to legacy TiVo peanut.
3. The back of the remote is too slippery, it slides around in my hand too much. 
4. I wish the remote was backlit. 
I'm going to back to the Fire remote with a silicone cover, nice try TiVo.


----------



## aaronwt

Breadfan said:


> Even with CEC the volume/mute buttons don't do anything on my TCL TV.
> The power button will turn the TV on and off, though.


HDMI-CEC has been working with my TCL 6 Series from the STream 4K. With Volume Up/Down and mute.
But my issue was that the STream 4K pushed me to having too many devices on HDMI-CEC. So initially my TCL would not see the receiver unless I unplugged the STream 4K. So I was able to turn off the HDMI-CEC stuff in my Shield TV and then my receiver was being seen again.


----------



## Narkul

I bought this for the remote, and it's terrible. No way to program it to operate my older Yamaha receiver. No dedicated rew/ff buttons makes it too awkward to use in Plex and probably many other apps that I have yet to try. Seriously thinking about packing it up and returning it.


----------



## Narkul

The one thing that could save this for me is if in the future there might be a way to pair a standard Tivo Dvr remote to it so the missing buttons would be there.


----------



## moyekj

Narkul said:


> I bought this for the remote, and it's terrible. No way to program it to operate my older Yamaha receiver. No dedicated rew/ff buttons makes it too awkward to use in Plex and probably many other apps that I have yet to try. Seriously thinking about packing it up and returning it.


You can probably use "Button Mapper" app to re-map buttons to dedicatd ff/rew actions. I was thinking of doing that with the "1" and "3" buttons as I don't think there are many apps I use where the number buttons are useful for their intended purpose.


----------



## ptcfast2

cybergrimes said:


> One of my main apps, Emby, is popping it's OSD whenever I press volume up or down. The volume change occurs still. I'll discuss with app devs if I decide to keep this.
> Also, totally bummed out that this remote is smaller than a normal TiVo remote, ugh


It does it with Plex as well. Whatever Tivo uses to map the commands triggers it, and is isn't the same "key" as what the Nvidia Shield uses.


----------



## cybergrimes

ptcfast2 said:


> It does it with Plex as well. Whatever Tivo uses to map the commands triggers it, and is isn't the same "key" as what the Nvidia Shield uses.


Hmm, good to know.

I just put Button Mapper on, it can do the TiVo button, Guide, Info and Skip but does not recognize the Live button. I think @BillyClyde asked about remapping "Live"


----------



## moyekj

Was able to use Button Mapper app to program 1=rew, 2=play, 3=ff


----------



## Narkul

moyekj said:


> Was able to use Button Mapper app to program 1=rew, 2=play, 3=ff


I'll give that a shot, but really wanted the "easy to find in the dark, no need to look" big circle FF/REW.


----------



## CMH

its too small - hopefully an aftermarket regular size one is coming and backlit


----------



## Dan203

CMH said:


> its too small - hopefully an aftermarket regular size one is coming and backlit


I like the small size and form factor. Don't like the missing buttons though.


----------



## CMH

Dan203 said:


> I like the small size and form factor. Don't like the missing buttons though.


well we need original tivo size remote - so we get our buttons and functions back


----------



## Dan203

CMH said:


> well we need original tivo size remote - so we get our buttons and functions back


I tried an original Slide remote, which did pair, but it didn't function. Problem is I'm not sure if it works. I'm pretty sure I stopped using it because it wasn't working, or was working intermittently. And only still have it because I'm a hoarder and never throw anything away. (not really, but feels like it sometimes)


----------



## babsonnexus

Well, now that I turned off the CEC to fix the issue of the HDMI switching when I turn on the TV, my receiver does not automatically turn off when I just turn off the TV power. Whoops! Guess I'll have to make sure when using the IR remote to leave it out long enough so it sends the signal to the receiver to turn off (as well as reprogram the Harmony Hub to turn off both the TV and Receiver and not just the TV in that scene).


----------



## Narkul

moyekj said:


> Was able to use Button Mapper app to program 1=rew, 2=play, 3=ff


I did that but none of the apps even recognize the ff/rew buttons, only the play/pause. Maybe not having ff/rew recognized is an Android issue.


----------



## moyekj

Narkul said:


> I did that but none of the apps even recognize the ff/rew buttons, only the play/pause. Maybe not having ff/rew recognized is an Android issue.


Yes I found that too. At least for Netflix, HBO NOW, Amazon the ff/rew buttons did nothing so not useful to remap. So the only useful one was the 2=play mapping.

Now if there is a way to map the TiVo button to launch ReelGood app that would be great...


----------



## Ralph Coleman

moyekj said:


> Yes I found that too. At least for Netflix, HBO NOW, Amazon the ff/rew buttons did nothing so not useful to remap. So the only useful one was the 2=play mapping.
> 
> Now if there is a way to map the TiVo button to launch ReelGood app that would be great...


I used ButtonMapper to set the double tap of the TIVO button to launch Reelgood app.


----------



## moyekj

Ralph Coleman said:


> I used ButtonMapper to set the double tap of the TIVO button to launch Reelgood app.


Good idea. I think I'll do the same. Long press didn't seem to work.


----------



## Ralph Coleman

moyekj said:


> Good idea. I think I'll use the long press option.


long press didn't work for me. Reelgood showed briefly, then Tivo took over. Thats why I used double press


----------



## Edmund

I don't have a Tivo Stream 4K and I never seen the remote, but I can guess how it works from the posts in this thread. It only knows one IR code set for tv power, volume, and mute its own. It NEVER changes, once the Tivo sees these commands it triggers hdmi-cec pulse to control whatever device its attached. All TV's and Audio devices respond to the SAME hdmi-cec commands no matter what brand it is, so you don't have to program the brand in. If you turn off the hdmi-cec, it won't work.


----------



## ptcfast2

Edmund said:


> I don't have a Tivo Stream 4K and I never seen the remote, but I can guess how it works from the posts in this thread. It only knows one IR code set for tv power, volume, and mute its own. It NEVER changes, once the Tivo sees these commands it triggers hdmi-cec pulse to control whatever device its attached. All TV's and Audio devices respond to the SAME hdmi-cec commands no matter what brand it is, so you don't have to program the brand in. If you turn off the hdmi-cec, it won't work.


Incorrect. There's a custom APK installed on the Stream that sends the IR code to the remote based on the device connected via HDMI when the remote connects. No CEC is involved when you press Power/Volume/Mute - uses IR. If it can't figure out the code for your device the remote won't control anything.


----------



## cybergrimes

ptcfast2 said:


> It does it with Plex as well. Whatever Tivo uses to map the commands triggers it, and is isn't the same "key" as what the Nvidia Shield uses.


I was about to report it to Emby team, see if they had any thoughts, decided to check another app first and it's also happening to Vudu. 
It's like it presses the info button at the same time, except it doesn't in Netflix, which would show the streaming bitrate, etc.

Just odd


----------



## pbb_memphis

Watch out for funkyness when using an external keyboard connected via USB-C to make changes in Settings. I was trying to add a wifi connection, and although the remote and the external keyboard would let me add the password, neither would register ENTER at all. I tried every key on the remote and every permutation of ENTER on the keyboard. The only way I could end up adding the new wifi connection was to remove the USB-C hub I was using, reboot and then a large onscreen keyboard appeared which allowed me to enter the password and utilize the onscreen keyboard |>, which worked. I think I had been able to use the ENTER key on the keyboard with other aspects of the device earlier, but I'm not sure about that.


----------



## pl1

Dan203 said:


> I paired a FireTV remote to mine and the buttons on it work as expected.


Could you tell me how to pair a Fire TV or Fire Stick remote to the TiVo Stream 4K? I have successfully paired one of my Fire remotes and my Samsung Remote, but none of them function.

This device will not be my GO TO streaming device as is, because of the remote. I actually prefer the TiVo Stream 4K because when I remove the TiVo App, it becomes very uncluttered. I probably use 4 apps total. That's all I really want to see.

Here are my pluses and minuses for the remote: (I am comparing the TiVo Stream 4K remote to my Samsung & Fire Remotes.)

First, let me say that I have loved the TiVo DVR remotes, in all of its versions.

PLUSES:

1. Channel button, which works for YouTube TV. (My Samsung remote also has this.)
2. Input button for sources.

MINUSES:

1. The feel of the remote is terrible for me. It is too light, too rounded and too slippery on the bottom. To skip forward, I need to press the wheel to the right, and it forces the remote to slip out of my hand. I am using double sided sticky tape on the bottom to help me hold it. This also helps me reach the sound toggle upper left without slipping.

2.The placement of the volume and channel buttons are too far away from the middle of the remote. I have a Tivo Bolt remote and when I hold it, my thumb lands right on the volume and channel buttons. Looking at the two remotes I do not see the difference, but for some reason, that is the feel for me.

3.The CIRCLE Home button should be a HOME picture like every other remote out there. The tendency is to press the TiVo button.

4. The number buttons seem totally useless to me.

To me, the most important functions for a streaming remote should be:

1.Power
3.Microphone
4.Rocker
5. return
6. Home
7.Volume/Channel

Here is what my Samsung TV remote looks like.








And if I can get either a Samsung or a Fire Remote to work with the Tivo Stream 4K, I will switch it to my GO TO device.


----------



## Dan203

pl1 said:


> Could you tell me how to pair a Fire TV or Fire Stick remote to the TiVo Stream 4K? I have successfully paired one of my Fire remotes and my Samsung Remote, but none of them function.
> 
> This device will not be my GO TO streaming device as is, because of the remote. I actually prefer the TiVo Stream 4K because when I remove the TiVo App, it becomes very uncluttered. I probably use 4 apps total. That's all I really want to see.
> 
> Here are my pluses and minuses for the remote: (I am comparing the TiVo Stream 4K remote to my Samsung & Fire Remotes.)
> 
> First, let me say that I have loved the TiVo DVR remotes, in all of its versions.
> 
> PLUSES:
> 
> 1. Channel button, which works for YouTube TV. (My Samsung remote also has this.)
> 2. Input button for sources.
> 
> MINUSES:
> 
> 1. The feel of the remote is terrible for me. It is too light, too rounded and too slippery on the bottom. To skip forward, I need to press the wheel to the right, and it forces the remote to slip out of my hand. I am using double sided sticky tape on the bottom to help me hold it. This also helps me reach the sound toggle upper left without slipping.
> 
> 2.The placement of the volume and channel buttons are too far away from the middle of the remote. I have a Tivo Bolt remote and when I hold it, my thumb lands right on the volume and channel buttons. Looking at the two remotes I do not see the difference, but for some reason, that is the feel for me.
> 
> 3.The CIRCLE Home button should be a HOME picture like every other remote out there. The tendency is to press the TiVo button.
> 
> 4. The number buttons seem totally useless to me.
> 
> To me, the most important functions for a streaming remote should be:
> 
> 1.Power
> 3.Microphone
> 4.Rocker
> 5. return
> 6. Home
> 7.Volume/Channel
> 
> Here is what my Samsung TV remote looks like.
> View attachment 49027
> 
> And if I can get either a Samsung or a Fire Remote to work with the Tivo Stream 4K, I will switch it to my GO TO device.


I just went to the remotes & devices section and paired it. Nothing special. I do have a Fire TV stick 4K, so maybe a newer remote? It's the voice one.


----------



## pl1

Dan203 said:


> I just went to the remotes & devices section and paired it. Nothing special. I do have a Fire TV stick 4K, so maybe a newer remote? It's the voice one.


I have the newest Fire TV 4K stick myself. I don't know why it doesn't work for me.


----------



## trip1eX

pl1 said:


> To me, the most important functions for a streaming remote should be:
> 
> 1.Power
> 3.Microphone
> 4.Rocker
> 5. return
> 6. Home
> 7.Volume/Channel


That is why I like the ATV REMOTE. It just has the important buttons. Very similar to your list.

Except a power button is redundant. And up/down channel button isn't needed.


----------



## pl1

trip1eX said:


> That is why I like the ATV REMOTE. It just has the important buttons. Very similar to your list.


Although I'm not intimately familiar with any Apple products, their approach has always been ease of use. It's just that in the PC market, I could buy (or build) 2 or 3 Windows boxes for the price of one.


----------



## trip1eX

pl1 said:


> Although I'm not intimately familiar with any Apple products, their approach has always been ease of use. It's just that in the PC market, I could buy (or build) 2 or 3 Windows boxes for the price of one.


. Well you definitely are not familiar with Macs but not sure why one would try to bring them up when talking about streaming remotes.


----------



## Dan203

pl1 said:


> I have the newest Fire TV 4K stick myself. I don't know why it doesn't work for me.


To be honest I didn't test it thoroughly, so there might be buttons that don't work. I only tested navigation and that the pause/play button worked.


----------



## Dan203

trip1eX said:


> That is why I like the ATV REMOTE. It just has the important buttons. Very similar to your list.
> 
> Except a power button is redundant. And up/down channel button isn't needed.


The ATV touch remote is garbage!!!! Every f*cking time I even pick it up it pauses or scrubs the video because of the stupid touch pad. I hate it! I'm using a Harmony Hub for my ATV right now. Not the best remote but at least I don't have to pick it up like a live grenade every time I want to use it.


----------



## trip1eX

Dan203 said:


> The ATV touch remote is garbage!!!! Every f*cking time I even pick it up it pauses or scrubs the video because of the stupid touch pad. I hate it! I'm using a Harmony Hub for my ATV right now. Not the best remote but at least I don't have to pick it up like a live grenade every time I want to use it.


lol except you can't scrub the video when you pick it up by accident. And you would have to press a button to pause the show which is pretty easy not to do.

It's actually the best remote on a streaming device by far.

I do think Apple tweaked the remote some somewhere along the line and that one adapts to it. I like it more now than ever.


----------



## Dan203

trip1eX said:


> lol except you can't scrub the video when you pick it up by accident. And you would have to press a button to pause the show which is pretty easy not to do.


You absolutely can. Do it all the time. (or did) Maybe it's app specific. I watch a lot of YouTube. In YouTube if you even touch the touch pad it scrubs the video.


----------



## trip1eX

Dan203 said:


> You absolutely can. Do it all the time. (or did) Maybe it's app specific. I watch a lot of YouTube. In YouTube if you even touch the touch pad it scrubs the video.


That's the app. It's from Google too. They don't care about making a good ATV app. They don't care about following the guidelines.

Also while you can accidentally move the timeline ahead in the Youtube app when picking up the remote, the video will only jump to that point if you click the touchpad or play. If you click the menu button you resume play where you left off even if the timeline was accidentally moved.

Every other app I've used that I can recall doesn't work like that. You have to pause a show first before you can scrub the timeline.


----------



## Dan203

trip1eX said:


> That's the app. It's from Google too. They don't care about making a good ATV app. They don't care about following the "rules."


Well it's still super annoying regardless of who's fault it is. Plus it's not like it's hard to accidentally click that touch part either when you're trying to pick up the remote. I tried living with it for like 6 months. Hated it.


----------



## pl1

trip1eX said:


> Except a power button is redundant. And up/down channel button isn't needed.


Power is to turn on the TV. Channel up/down works with YouTube TV, maybe other apps.


----------



## trip1eX

pl1 said:


> Power is to turn on the TV. Channel up/down works with YouTube TV, maybe other apps.


Any button on the ATV remote turns on the tv. That's why a power button is redundant. I don't know if the ATV remote is the first to do that but it works.

"Works with" is different from needed with regard to the Channel buttons.

I used the guide the switch channels in YTTV. But really I rarely did that because I didn't watch live tv. I record it. Also the UI had that last watched channel list which also could be used to switch between channels as well. And with tv watching overall moving to direct to consumer on-demand...the channel button's usefulness will just continue to decline.


----------



## trip1eX

Dan203 said:


> Well it's still super annoying regardless of who's fault it is. Plus it's not like it's hard to accidentally click that touch part either when you're trying to pick up the remote. I tried living with it for like 6 months. Hated it.


well when you're saying a remote is garbage but the issue you mentioned only happens in one app then that makes it not so much the remote's fault.  Nevermind that you have to also hit a button to make that issue happen still in that 1 app.

I don't have a problem accidentally clicking the touchpad. But maybe I've just learned to not do it over time and forgot about any hassles I had in the beginning.


----------



## Dan203

trip1eX said:


> Any button on the ATV remote turns on the tv. That's why a power button is redundant. I don't know if the ATV remote is the first to do that but it works.


Doesn't work with my 2015 era LG TV. Sometimes I can press the Siri button and get her to turn on/off the TV, but it's hit and miss. I even tried upgrading the firmware on the TV, which required manual download an USB stick, but still no dice.


----------



## Dan203

trip1eX said:


> well when you're saying a remote is garbage but the issue you mentioned only happens in one app then that makes it not so much the remote's fault.
> 
> I don't a problem accidentally clicking the touchpad. But maybe I've just learned to not do it over time and forgot about any hassles I had in the beginning.


It's a bad design. I like Apple products, but not everything they do is perfect and this is one of those times. That Swiss cable company that is using Apple TVs as their main box actually had to design their own remote for the Apple TV because they got so many complaints about the remote from their customers. You may like the remote, but I think you're in the minority.


----------



## trip1eX

Dan203 said:


> Doesn't work with my 2015 era LG TV. Sometimes I can press the Siri button and get her to turn on/off the TV, but it's hit and miss. I even tried upgrading the firmware on the TV, which required manual download an USB stick, but still no dice.


ok but that isn't an issue with the fact any button on the ATV remote is the power on button. It would be an issue with AppleTV, HDMI-CEC and your tv. HDMI-CEC has been notoriously flakey over the years.


----------



## Dan203

trip1eX said:


> ok but that isn't an issue with the fact any button on the ATV remote is the power on button. It would be an issue with AppleTV, HDMI-CEC and your tv.


Maybe it's my TV, or maybe it's the ATV not sending the command correctly. It works sometimes, but the majority of the time it doesn't. So who's at fault? I've had other devices use CEC on the TV and they work.


----------



## trip1eX

Dan203 said:


> It's a bad design. I like Apple products, but not everything they do is perfect and this is one of those times. That Swiss cable company that is using Apple TVs as their main box actually had to design their own remote for the Apple TV because they got so many complaints about the remote from their customers. You may like the remote, but I think you're in the minority.


lol. You can't bring up a complaint and then I point out it's not possible the way you described and that it's app specific and then you sum up our discussion as the remote having bad design. 

The conclusion doesn't make sense.

Now I do realize that the remote is unique so the initial reaction for many is a similar reaction to change of any kind. LIke there is no power button on the remote. This alone will throw tons of people for a loop. And I imagine a cable company ...having been in the cable business myself...you're putting boxes into homes of old people especially nowadays where the young customers aren't as keen on cable as 20 years ago. Old people aren't going to adapt to the ATV remote or as a whole are going to have more trouble.

Also who knows what app your cable company example was using. As we saw with the youtube app, a poor app or an app not made for the ATV remote can make the experience of using the remote worse.

It has nothing to do with other Apple products or Apple products being perfect or Apple itself. I just think the ATV remote gets a bad rap and is actually the best streaming remote out there. I think between a few Apple tweaks, better apps and longer term use that it is even better now.


----------



## pl1

trip1eX said:


> Any button on the ATV remote turns on the tv. That's why a power button is redundant. I don't know if the ATV remote is the first to do that but it works.


I wasn't aware of that with Apple TV. How do you turn off the TV?


trip1eX said:


> "Works with" is different from needed with regard to the Channel buttons.


I agree, I was pointing out what I would like for a remote. I didn't mean to insinuate it was needed. It's just my preference.



trip1eX said:


> I used the guide the to switch channels in YTTV. But really I rarely did that because I didn't watch live tv. I record it.


There are many times when I'm watching live TV during the day now that I'm retired. Sometimes I will switch between 2 or 3 channels. Since I can sort the guide the way I want in YTTV, I know just where the channels are that I want to see without having to back out to the guide. So it is a feature I like.


----------



## trip1eX

Dan203 said:


> Maybe it's my TV, or maybe it's the ATV not sending the command correctly. It works sometimes, but the majority of the time it doesn't. So who's at fault? I've had other devices use CEC on the TV and they work.


I don't know who is at fault either. I do know every device has its share of compatibility issues. With your logic, that means everything has bad design right? 

And your issue has nothing to do with the power button being redundant. It is a HDMI-CEC compatiblity issue with your specific tv. I never said the ATV is going to work perfectly every single tv setup out there. I just said the remote is great and the best streaming remote.


----------



## trip1eX

pl1 said:


> I wasn't aware of that with Apple TV. How do you turn off the TV?


HOld down the HOme button for a sec and click Sleep which is the default choice.


----------



## pl1

trip1eX said:


> HOld down the HOme button for a sec and click Sleep which is the default choice.


:thumbsup:


----------



## Dan203

trip1eX said:


> I don't know who is at fault either. I do know every device has its share of compatibility issues. With your logic, that means everything has bad design right?


If it were just the on/off problem I wouldn't blame Apple. There is equal chance that is caused by my TV. The part that's bad design is the touch part. Not just for the accidental touches, but for navigation as well. Having to swipe around to navigate in apps requires a lot more "work" than simply clicking a button. And it's very easy to over shoot and to accidentally swipe a little when you're trying to click causing unwanted behavior.


----------



## trip1eX

Dan203 said:


> If it were just the on/off problem I wouldn't blame Apple. There is equal chance that is caused by my TV. The part that's bad design is the touch part. Not just for the accidental touches, but for navigation as well. Having to swipe around to navigate in apps requires a lot more "work" than simply clicking a button. And it's very easy to over shoot and to accidentally swipe a little when you're trying to click causing unwanted behavior.


Why would you not blame Apple for not powering on your tv if it had a dedicated on/off button that also used only HDMI-CEC? That doesn't make any sense to me because the problem isn't that the ATV remote uses any button to turn on your tv. The problem is it uses HDMI-CEC in your case and there is compatibility issue there with your specific tv or tv setup I should say. Who knows what other equipment is on there like a soundbar or receiver.

I bet if I google ATV and LG tvs that I wouldn't find every LG tv having this problem. But that's just a hunch. And what I'm trying to say there is there isn't any inherent design flaw there. It's a bug specific to your tv. Perhaps specific to a segment of LG tvs. And yes, possibly even to all LGs tvs for all I know, but I would guess this isn't the case given how these things work. LG is a major tv manufacturer. Apple doesn't want its ATV remote to not turn on all tvs from a major manufacturer. And such a widespread bug would get their attention and priority. yada yada yada.

As for the touchpad, the advantage of it is the versatility and the scrolling through timelines and menus. I agree it's not as reliable as a button press for advancing one specific "jump." But it isn't close to the opposite either and the more you use it the more the gap narrows. Also one can change the sensitivity of it. I used to have the touchpad on a low sensitivity so I would be more accurate. Somewhere along the line, I turned it up because I got used to it. Also some apps are better than others.

And as for the amount of work needed to use a touchpad? I'd have to disagree on that. Although in some apps maybe not. In the YTTV app, if you to want to scroll through the guide it's a pain because it's made for holding the "down arrow" to scroll fast through the guide. Google didn't adapt the YTTV app (last I checked a few months ago) to the touchpad where, if they did it right, you would be able to either edge scroll to move fast down the guide or the faster you swiped on the touchpad the farther it would scroll. This is behavior I have seen in other apps. Instead the use of the touchpad feels more like it simulates a button click in the guide.

Everyone uses touchpads on laptops and touchscreens on phones too so another reason I don't think using a touchpad is more work overall. EVen if you overshoot it easy to swipe your thumb back a bit. I think constantly clicking a button can be a lot of work (relatively speaking) or holding down a button and then timing the release of it.


----------



## Dan203

Like I said. You may like it, but a LOT of people don't. Just because it's new doesn't make it better.


----------



## pl1

trip1eX said:


> HOld down the HOme button for a sec and click Sleep which is the default choice.


Curiosity got the best of me and I tried holding down the Home button on my Fire Stick 4K just to see what it does. I am presented with a big clock and four options:
1. Apps
2. Sleep
3. Mirroring
4. Settings

Sleep mode does not turn off the TV, but while in sleep mode, any key wakes it. If I power off the TV with the power button, no other key will wake it. Just curious.

EDIT: Holding the Home key on the Tivo Stream 4K gives the APPS menu.


----------



## foghorn2

The only thing I like about Apple is the IPhone SE, a small phone that can do everything- thats it. I tried the Apple TV, got rid of it real fast.

The best experience I had was the Tivo Roamio with cable, and before that a Win 7 Media Center HTPC with 2 OTA tuners with the Hulu 10' interface. The WDTV was great too. Apple TV was the worst.


----------



## Dan203

I have spent a lot of money on devices trying to get the Apple TV to work the way I want. (i.e. remote I don't hate and controllable via Alexa) I'm still not there. I'm trying to like it because it has all the apps I want, but I'm not really a fan. 

The Fire TV with the little IR emulator attachment worked pretty good but it was missing a couple of apps I wanted and just had a really cluttered UI, which is why I switched back to the Apple TV.

This new TiVo thing is missing the same apps as the Fire TV and it's missing Apple TV+, so I'm unlikely to use it as my primary streamer. Although I may try once all episodes of Defending Jacob are done and I don't really need ATV+ just to see how I like it day to day.


----------



## trip1eX

Dan203 said:


> Like I said. You may like it, but a LOT of people don't. Just because it's new doesn't make it better.


Along the same lines just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's garbage. 

Just because it doesn't turn on your specific tv model doesn't mean it is bad design. Matter of fact I think this problem of yours has nothing to do with the ATV remote. IT's the ATV itself that uses HDMI-CEC to turn on the tv. The remote signals the ATV. Thus the problem given that it works with what I would assume are the vast majority of tvs is the HDMI-CEC between ATV and your TV (or tv setup.)

And just because some people on the internet profess their hate for it doesn't mean a lot of people don't like it. Also I'm sure some remotes like Harmony remotes have far fewer haters because if you don't want one don't get within 10 ft of them in the first place and because they also sell far fewer.

Here's a perhaps interesting link for some people titled:
*Harmony remotes are fading in relevance as streaming takes over, says Logitech CEO*
https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/8/20905042/logitech-ceo-harmony-universal-remote-streaming-smart-tv-voice-assistant-bracken-

And never said that something is better because it is new. I said the new unique nature of the remote, even IF better, is going to turn off some people.


----------



## trip1eX

pl1 said:


> Curiosity got the best of me and I tried holding down the Home button on my Fire Stick 4K just to see what it does. I am presented with a big clock and four options:
> 1. Apps
> 2. Sleep
> 3. Mirroring
> 4. Settings
> 
> Sleep mode does not turn off the TV, but while in sleep mode, any key wakes it. If I power off the TV with the power button, no other key will wake it. Just curious.
> 
> EDIT: Holding the Home key on the Tivo Stream 4K gives the APPS menu.


lol I'm not positive I follow. YOu're wondering if this works on other devices? I would have guessed no.


----------



## Dan203

trip1eX said:


> Along the same lines just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's garbage.
> 
> Just because it doesn't turn on your specific tv model doesn't mean it is bad design. Matter of fact I think that problem has nothing to do with the ATV remote. IT's the ATV itself that uses HDMI-CEC to turn on the tv. The remote signals the ATV.
> 
> And just because some people on the internet profess their hate for it doesn't mean a lot of people don't like it.
> 
> And never said that something is better because it is new.


So you're essentially saying that the remote doesn't control the TV, the box does, so it's not the remote's fault it can't turn on the TV? And that the issue I have with YouTube, and a few other apps, aren't the remotes fault they're the developer's fault because they don't follow the special ATV "rules"? Gotcha.

If you want proof that a lot of people hate the remote just look at that Swedish cable company I mentioned. They use Apple TV as their primary cable box and their customers complained so much about the remote that they actually designed their own. Seems like they'd need a lot of complaints to go to that much effort.

And honestly I wouldn't even care if there was a decent alternative. But because Apple is Apple and they're all secretive and proprietary it's impossible for someone else to make a better remote that supports all the features. Even that Swedish cable one can't use Siri or bring up the task manager to close apps. So I still have to dig out the ATV remote, or use my iPad, when I need to use those features. (there are no menus or on screen buttons to accomplish the same thing, they can only be done using the original remote or an iOS device)


----------



## pl1

trip1eX said:


> lol I'm not positive I follow. YOu're wondering if this works on other devices? I would have guessed no.


I was just wondering if holding the Home key did anything on my devices. As usual, I don't read the manual.


----------



## trip1eX

Dan203 said:


> So you're essentially saying that the remote doesn't control the TV, the box does, so it's not the remote's fault it can't turn on the TV? And that the issue I have with YouTube, and a few other apps, aren't the remotes fault they're the developer's fault because they don't follow the special ATV "rules"? Gotcha.


Yes 110%.

Why would you think it's the remotes fault for not turning on your tv when the box is sending the HDMI-CEC signals to the power on the tv? All the remote does is wake the ATV and then the ATV spits out the signals. Do you think it works a different way? If so please describe. Maybe it was a flaw not to have IR power on for a backup plan just in case. But also realize your tv is the exception not the rule.

And yes in the streaming world, if you make an app that uses the touchpad poorly then it's the app developer's fault. Also your "issue" with Youtube was described inaccurately or the behavior in the app has changed from when you last used it. You said you could accidentally touch the touchpad to scrub through the the show. But that iisn't the case. Yes you will move the timeline but the playback will only skip to that point if you press Play or press the Touchpad to consummate it. If you press menu it picks up where you left off no matter if you accidentally moved the timeline. Given how every other app I've used does it better I would say it's the app's fault.

My experience with 2 Google apps on ATV is that Google didn't fully commit to the ATV platform. You see this sorta thing all the time with software ports. Like MS would port MS office to the Mac and it would always behind features and often never fully take advantage of the strength of the Mac. Or iTunes always seemed to me to work much better on the Mac than on Windows where it felt much worse as if Apple didn't care too much. Videogames the same way. I've seen games ported to the pc from console and the m/k controls and UI are substandard for the pc and the game is poorly optimized. Software is often best on its native platform sorta speak.



Dan203 said:


> If you want proof that a lot of people hate the remote just look at that Swedish cable company I mentioned. They use Apple TV as their primary cable box and their customers complained so much about the remote that they actually designed their own. Seems like they'd need a lot of complaints to go to that much effort.


I already addressed that because you mentioned it earlier. IT's a vague anecdotal example. There are no details to go on. If their customers were traditional cabletv watchers and the experience the cable company was selling was that same linear tv cable experience except on the ATV I could see lots of complaints from customers. And on top of it a lot of cable customers are 50+ yrs old. I wouldn't have switched them to the ATV remote and ATV if that was the experience I was selling. Also the ATV is an app based experience. And as we know with apps, the experience of using the app can vary greatly from developer to developer. Whatever app they were using, if they didn't adjust for the touchpad and the way the ATV remote works then it would have just made the experience even worse and further turned off people.



Dan203 said:


> And honestly I wouldn't even care if there was a decent alternative. But because Apple is Apple and they're all secretive and proprietary it's impossible for someone else to make a better remote that supports all the features. Even that Swedish cable one can't use Siri or bring up the task manager to close apps. So I still have to dig out the ATV remote, or use my iPad, when I need to use those features. (there are no menus or on screen buttons to accomplish the same thing, they can only be done using the original remote or an iOS device)


Sucks that 3rd party remote support isn't complete. I thought it was but I never used a 3rd party remote.


----------



## mattyro7878

babsonnexus said:


> I am happy to report that the remote understood my TV and receiver situation perfectly with no programming whatsoever, so I'm impressed! My only concern at the moment is when my wife turned on the TV this morning, it changed the input to the Stream instead of the TiVo box on the main input that it was left on last night. I'm going to be monitoring this to see if it still happening. I think this might have something to do with CEC.


I dont think this has anything to do with CEC. It learns all it can through HDMI, and takes it from there. Can it know about a receiver that is connected to a tv through ARC? I dont know. I have my stream plugged into my receiver so the tv is an afterthought. Although the receiver is connected to the tv so...what about that?What if you plugged your stream into an input on say an Oppo blu ray which is connected to a receiver than a tv??


----------



## ke3ju

Dan203 said:


> No they don't. Those are just select and right/left. In some apps it works that way, but mainly just Netflix and Sling.
> 
> I paired a FireTV remote to mine and the buttons on it work as expected.


Does the FireTV remote control the TV Power, and Volume?

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


----------



## Dan203

ke3ju said:


> Does the FireTV remote control the TV Power, and Volume?


No. I believe that on the FireTV itself there is an onscreen setup for the TV/Receiver, so I'm not sure the TiVo could accomplish that. Maybe you could trick it by setting that up first using the FireTV itself, and then pairing it to the TiVo Stream, but I haven't tried so I can't say for sure if that would work.


----------



## BillyClyde

ke3ju said:


> Does the FireTV remote control the TV Power, and Volume?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk





Dan203 said:


> No. I believe that on the FireTV itself there is an onscreen setup for the TV/Receiver, so I'm not sure the TiVo could accomplish that. Maybe you could trick it by setting that up first using the FireTV itself, and then pairing it to the TiVo Stream, but I haven't tried so I can't say for sure if that would work.


Mine worked for TV Volume, Power, etc. right after I paired it. It seemed to be using IR and was previously paired with a FTV, so Dan seems to be onto something.


----------

