# Cooling a Tivo HDD - Any ideas?



## Mark Ward (Sep 14, 2003)

Well with a lot of trial error and some help here I finally got my Dad's Tivo S1 in Cyprus to download the program data.

One thing that is concerning me is that the HDD is running VERY hot, around 45-46C, not surprising when the outside temperature was 35degrees.

I took a replacement HDD with me but that gave similar heat numbers. I think I'm going to have to try and source an HDD that is known to run cooler, maybe a 5400rpm one?

In addition I was wondering if anyone has tried using some method of HDD cooler on the HDD inside the Tivo. I'm thinking something like a heatsink like the Zalman Heatpipe Hard Disk Cooler?

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Mark.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Most dedicated HDD coolers are designed to screw to the underside of hard drives, and are so not directly suitable for tivos.

These type won't fit: underside cooler - though you could use double sided tape to put them on top (!),

These zalman coolers should work (assuming there is clearance above) as they fix to the side of the drive, and sit on top ..not sure exactly how much cooling the heatpipes give though.

...or you could just put an 80mm fan in front of the hard drives using a spare molex connector, as I have done in the past.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Mark Ward said:


> I took a replacement HDD with me but that gave similar heat numbers. I think I'm going to have to try and source an HDD that is known to run cooler, maybe a 5400rpm one?


I can heartily recommend a Samsung HA250JC - expensive, but runs very cool and quiet compared to 7200rpm drives


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

I don't think I'd be especially concerned about a 45C temperature, especially if that's only 10 degrees more than the ambient - you'll struggle to significantly reduce that differential without using some serious cooling.

Buying a new disk because your worried that the disk might faile so you would need to buy a new disk seems a rather circular argument!


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## Mark Ward (Sep 14, 2003)

blindlemon said:


> I can heartily recommend a Samsung HA250JC - expensive, but runs very cool and quiet compared to 7200rpm drives


Thanks, I'll try to get one of those.



TCM2007 said:


> I don't think I'd be especially concerned about a 45C temperature, especially if that's only 10 degrees more than the ambient - you'll struggle to significantly reduce that differential without using some serious cooling.
> 
> Buying a new disk because your worried that the disk might faile so you would need to buy a new disk seems a rather circular argument!


I subsequently found out that the 45degrees is actually the CPU temperature. The Hard Disk (either of the 2 I tried) run too hot to the touch to be picked up. I'm really familar with how hot HDDs are in our servers at work and the tivo HDD runs ridiculously hotter.

I'm 2000 miles away from the Tivo and the HDD that's in there has been running for many years (4+) so I'm happy to start again with a new HDD and leaving the other one behind as a backup for emergencies.

A HDD that runs cooler is an obvious choice and I'm hoping that the HDDcooler may just fit in with a little case modding (removing the normal HDD Bay Mounts perhaps). Anything I can do to make the thing run a little cooler.

Thanks,

Mark.


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## Mark Ward (Sep 14, 2003)

mikerr said:


> Most dedicated HDD coolers are designed to screw to the underside of hard drives, and are so not directly suitable for tivos.


I was considering some case surgery, removing the current tray arrangement 



> These type won't fit: underside cooler - though you could use double sided tape to put them on top (!),
> 
> These zalman coolers should work (assuming there is clearance above) as they fix to the side of the drive, and sit on top ..not sure exactly how much cooling the heatpipes give though.


It is the Zalman ones I have bought, they arrive tomorrow hopefully. I'm pretty sure there's enough room, but I'm not adverse to a little case modding if not.



> ...or you could just put an 80mm fan in front of the hard drives using a spare molex connector, as I have done in the past.


That is a great idea, would an 80mm fit though? I'll need to research some REALLY quiet fans for this but sounds ideal. If the Zalman works I'll do both.

Thanks,

Mark.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Mark Ward said:


> The Hard Disk (either of the 2 I tried) run too hot to the touch to be picked up. .


That'll be hotter than 45C then!

Have you tried cleaning the fan; it can get well gunked up with dust.


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## terryeden (Nov 2, 2002)

My standard advice is to open up the casing and blow out all the dust. Get a few cans of compressed air and make sure there's not a spec left - pay particular attention to the fans.

That should help keep the temperature down.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

...what about putting the TiVo next to an AC unit or external fan?


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## Mark Ward (Sep 14, 2003)

terryeden said:


> My standard advice is to open up the casing and blow out all the dust. Get a few cans of compressed air and make sure there's not a spec left - pay particular attention to the fans.
> 
> That should help keep the temperature down.


I did this before taking the Tivo to Cyrus, it's still pretty shiny in there.



> ...what about putting the TiVo next to an AC unit or external fan?


 It is actually at below TV height but directly under the wall mounted AC unit, however AC is only on when the room is being used and there really isn't anywhere else to put it.

Mark.


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## PaulWilkinsUK (Mar 20, 2006)

Could try wafting it with your cap ...


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## Mark Ward (Sep 14, 2003)

OK, so the Zalman HDD Cooler arrived today and it fit in just fine.

I'm not sure how efficient it will be at cooling the super hot HDD in Cyprus but I guess I'll find out. Is there a telnet commend to read the temperature from a Tivo HDD? I also decided to move the HDD over to the other bay, directly in front of the extraction fan to hopefully further help efficiency removing heat.

I've also had a play at where I could position another Tivo fan in the case and the only 2 ways I can easily see are In the other bay diagonally or In the other bay blowing accross the HDD. I reckon diagonally would be better as it blows more towards the extraction fan, but I haven't yet come up with a suitable method of fixing it.

Mark.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

Adding another fan adds noise, PSU strain and a mechanical point of failure and I'm not sure how effective it will be without more ventilation - it could just muddy the air flow in the case?

I can't remember if the standard fan blows or sucks? I would have thought after adding the cooler adding vents either above/ below/beside the the hot HDD would be the next most effective step? 

If I were in your situation I'd be seriously considering adding some slots either in the disk side of the top casing or in the top casing above the disk. I guess it depends on how happy you are to dremel & file the case. Let us know how you get on.


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

Mark Ward said:


> .... Is there a telnet commend to read the temperature from a Tivo HDD?


Yes use smartctl, make sure its the version below in your hack/bin directory and not the TiVo supplied /bin directory. V5.1-9 is version I have.

As you can see my drive temp is 46C.


```
bash-2.02# ./smartctl -A /dev/hdb
smartctl version 5.1-9 Copyright (C) 2002-3 Bruce Allen
Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE     WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   060   057   006    Old_age      -       226772554
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0003   096   096   000    Old_age      -       0
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age      -       39
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   036    Old_age      -       0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   084   060   030    Old_age      -       303848181
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   075   075   000    Old_age      -       22564
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013   100   100   097    Old_age      -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age      -       46
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   046   052   000    Old_age      -       46 (Lifetime Min/Max 0/14)
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered  0x001a   060   056   000    Old_age      -       226772554
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age      -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000    Old_age      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   200   200   000    Old_age      -       0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate   0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age      -       0
202 Unknown_Attribute       0x0032   100   253   000    Old_age      -       0
```


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## Davyburns (Jan 7, 2004)

I have had trouble with cooling in my pc (It has 7 internal hdd)and i combated it using a modded case side with a 250mm fan and 2 more internal 80mm fans.
I also have a piece of software called HDD inspector, which monitors the hdd's temperature, which are all running at 29 -33c. The software also tells me that the critical temp is 55c.
(in case your wondering why 7 HDD's, the PC is the hub of 3 networks with 3 operating systems, and I have a very large collection of Movies backed up. I intend to move to externals as and when they fail, but at the moment, everything is running just fine)


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## Lckob (Mar 29, 2008)

I've used those passive Zalman HDD coolers, and after testing, have concluded that their effectiveness is moderate at best. The heatpipes seem like a good idea, but really seem to be their more for show than vapor cooling. The extra mass of the aluminum side brackets seem to do more in the short run by providing more mass and surface area for heat dissipation. IMO, the best cooling solution is clear airflow, added heat dissipative mass <fins> and an active cooler <quiet fan>.

Now if you can fit the Zalman into the case, the next thing I would do is to see if there is volume clearance to mount a large intake fan <120 mm would be prime> Of course this would entail some case mods - most notably cutting an appropriate sized hole < 4.75 aprox> with screw holes for mounting (and a grill fan - preferably one with a removable dust screen - if intake <available from computer parts stores like Cyberguys>. Note that if aesthetics is not critical, you can always mount the fan OUTSIDE the case, thereby not impacting interior limitations. As for power, you can tap the existing fan power by splitting it or if not sure as to the output drain, you could always use an external dc power adaptor switched to the appropriate voltage ....

... actually there is kind of a neat solution for the power and cooling model.
If you model of Tivo has fairly good air intakes on the bottom of the unit, you can use a laptop cooler to provide a active air current below the unit, while providing a case mounted fan "pulling the warm air out of the case <no filter needed > Many laptop coolers of this type use standard USB connectors for power, which means that if you have a pc near or an av device with a spare connector, the power issue is solved ... even if you don't, the rise of mp3 music players has made usb power adaptors very common and cheap.

I've used a variation of this last model for many av devices <past warrenty> and have found that it is quite effective at eliminating heat buildup due to poor airflow.


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## Mark Ward (Sep 14, 2003)

AMc said:


> Adding another fan adds noise, PSU strain and a mechanical point of failure and I'm not sure how effective it will be without more ventilation - it could just muddy the air flow in the case?
> 
> I can't remember if the standard fan blows or sucks? I would have thought after adding the cooler adding vents either above/ below/beside the the hot HDD would be the next most effective step?
> 
> If I were in your situation I'd be seriously considering adding some slots either in the disk side of the top casing or in the top casing above the disk. I guess it depends on how happy you are to dremel & file the case. Let us know how you get on.


I don't think that an extra fan would give any problems to the PSU, after all my original configuration when new had 2 HDDs in it, a 30gb and a 10gb.

I'm with you on the airflow though, it occurred to me that I might be adding complications, which is why for now I'm not going to add another fan. When I go to Cyprus next I'll take the bits so I can if need be.

Current fax *extracts* air. I'm not up on my physics but I'm wondering whether a 2nd fan *directly infront of* (attached to) the existing fan would extract a great volume of air?

It would be reall easy to screw a 2nd Tivo fan to the 1st one.

I might just have a play and find out. My chief hurdle so far has been the fact I only know the CPU temp, but the post below yours may provide a solution to telling the HHD temp.

Thanks,

Mark.


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## Mark Ward (Sep 14, 2003)

Ian_m said:


> Yes use smartctl, make sure its the version below in your hack/bin directory and not the TiVo supplied /bin directory. V5.1-9 is version I have.
> 
> As you can see my drive temp is 46C.


That's brilliant, I just telnet'ed into my Tivo from work. Turns out my HDD is *hda* not *hdb* but the temp is 40c. Obviously this is my UK Tivo. I don't have remote access to the Cyprus Tivo yet due to some firewall issues relating to CYTA internet. Thanks.



Lckob said:


> I've used those passive Zalman HDD coolers, and after testing, have concluded that their effectiveness is moderate at best.


This is my suspicion too. Now I know how to measure HHD temp I'll leave the machine idle for 24 hours, measure the temp, remove the zalman and measure again a further 24 hours later.



> Now if you can fit the Zalman into the case, the next thing I would do is to see if there is volume clearance to mount a large intake fan <120 mm would be prime> Of course this would entail some case mods - most notably cutting an appropriate sized hole < 4.75 aprox> with screw holes for mounting (and a grill fan - preferably one with a removable dust screen - if intake <available from computer parts stores like Cyberguys>. Note that if aesthetics is not critical, you can always mount the fan OUTSIDE the case, thereby not impacting interior limitations. As for power, you can tap the existing fan power by splitting it or if not sure as to the output drain, you could always use an external dc power adaptor switched to the appropriate voltage ....
> 
> ... actually there is kind of a neat solution for the power and cooling model.
> If you model of Tivo has fairly good air intakes on the bottom of the unit, you can use a laptop cooler to provide a active air current below the unit, while providing a case mounted fan "pulling the warm air out of the case <no filter needed > *Many laptop coolers of this type use standard USB connectors for power, which means that if you have a pc near or an av device with a spare connector, the power issue is solved ... even if you don't, the rise of mp3 music players has made usb power adaptors very common and cheap.*
> ...


This is a worthwhile experiment I reckon, I hadn't considered a Laptop cooler. I don't have a PC nearby but USB plugs are easy enough to get these days.

Thanks,

Mark.


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## Mark Ward (Sep 14, 2003)

blindlemon said:


> I can heartily recommend a *Samsung HA250JC* - expensive, but runs very cool and quiet compared to 7200rpm drives


JUst bought 3 of these brand new off eBay for £28.99 each plus shipping (£31.31 each delivered). That's 1 each for my current 3 Tivos! 

If he'd had more I'd have bought a couple of spares.

Thanks,

Mark.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Mark Ward said:


> JUst bought 3 of these brand new off eBay for £28.99 each plus shipping (£31.31 each delivered). That's 1 each for my current 3 Tivos!


Bloody hell  You're lucky I wasn't looking on eBay for them otherwise I would have had 'em... 

Good for you though :up:


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