# Roamio vs XBox One?



## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

OK, I had a Roamio Pro on order from SS, but the delay and some other monetary things made me rethink so I cancelled the order....for now.....I think....

Reason is, I am second guessing because of the features and excitement over the new Xbox One and its possible DVR and TV abilities. I followed some threads on AVS for a bit when it was announced but have since lost touch. I hypothesized there that what if it could accept an Ethernet or USB tuner like the HDHomerun or Ceton products instead of just passing thru the hdmi, aka the GoogleTV, and if so, possibly also be able to store recordings locally or on an external drive, making a pretty impressive DVR and media machine. I also thought the old 360's may be then used as extenders for the XBone, like a TiVo mini/ MC extender, all with (hopefully), no monthly costs involved.

My question is, does anyone know anything new about the XBone, for reasons mentioned above, that may make my second guessing of plunking down all this cash on new TiVo gear and Lifetime Service, valid???


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

HarperVision said:


> OK, I had a Roamio Pro on order from SS, but the delay and some other monetary things made me rethink so I cancelled the order....for now.....I think....
> 
> Reason is, I am second guessing because of the features and excitement over the new Xbox One and its possible DVR and TV abilities. I followed some threads on AVS for a bit when it was announced but have since lost touch. I hypothesized there that what if it could accept an Ethernet or USB tuner like the HDHomerun or Ceton products instead of just passing thru the hdmi, aka the GoogleTV, and if so, possibly also be able to store recordings locally or on an external drive, making a pretty impressive DVR and media machine. I also thought the old 360's may be then used as extenders for the XBone, like a TiVo mini/ MC extender, all with (hopefully), no monthly costs involved.
> 
> My question is, does anyone know anything new about the XBone, for reasons mentioned above, that may make my second guessing of plunking down all this cash on new TiVo gear and Lifetime Service, valid???


MS has already stated that the XBOne is not a DVR. Of course there could be something in the future, but they are not talking about it now. They went out of their way to say that it's not a DVR.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

I understand its not a DVR as it sells at retail, but does anyone know if it will have the "capability" of being one with an Ethernet/USB tuner and external HD plugged in. I think what they're saying with not being a dvr is in reference to the HDMI pass through, not some other external tuner and storage solution. I do think I heard that it should support external tuners in Europe.


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## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

The Xboc One is a fullly featured x86 computer with tons of horsepower as well as low power modes. Microsoft can make it do whatever it wants. It can support U-Verse with a software update and can support Digital Cable with an external USB device.

So, they CAN, but WILL they? It's unlikely.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Yeah that's kind of what I was hoping to find out with this thread....."will" they?! I was hoping someone was more in "the know" about it than I currently am. I guess it's about the same as last I checked in on it over at AVS. Maybe I'll just hold off a couple months and find out before I decide.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I doubt it.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Probably no. More likely are more Internet streaming deals with cable sub. I think TW is signed up right now.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Thanks, but if it doesn't have some sort of DVR capabilities, either local or in the cloud, then I'm out and I guess Roamio is the choice then!


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## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> Yeah that's kind of what I was hoping to find out with this thread....."will" they?! I was hoping someone was more in "the know" about it than I currently am.


No one knows anything.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

It's not going to have DVR functionality at launch. Maybe they'll decide to add it a year from now, or more, but it's definitely not going to have it at launch. So if you have to choose one or the other right now, and you need a DVR, then the TiVo is clear choice.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

I currently use DirecTV genie with an HR24 and 2 minis, so I'm set. I just want to cut down costs, get back a little more control and of course get something new and exciting!!! I've had a TiVo since the beginning and am itching to have it again whole home here. The only reason I got DTV here when I moved is to get my local sports teams from Philly.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Well TiVo doesn't work with DirecTV so if you still need that then I suggest you stick with the Genie and get the XB1 instead.

Plus, even if you don't need that, I'm not sure switching to TV would really save you any money. In most cases cable is more expensive then DirecTV and a whole home setup with TiVo equivalent to your Genie is going to cost a minimum $1,300 if you want lifetime (Roamio Plus + 2 Minis) or $600 + $27/mo ($15 + $6 x 2)


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> Well TiVo doesn't work with DirecTV so if you still need that then I suggest you stick with the Genie and get the XB1 instead.
> 
> Plus, even if you don't need that, I'm not sure switching to TV would really save you any money. In most cases cable is more expensive then DirecTV and a whole home setup with TiVo equivalent to your Genie is going to cost a minimum $1,300 if you want lifetime (Roamio Plus + 2 Minis) or $600 + $27/mo ($15 + $6 x 2)


I know directv doesn't work with the current tivos, that's not at all what I'm asking or saying. Look I've had, on and off, both of these since their inception (dtv in 1994 and TiVo jan 2000), plus I've been in the TV and Radio broadcast business even longer. I have a TiVo/Slingbox setup in Philly now, so no need for all the expensive sports packages on dtv. I can save about $60/month in programming and box fees going to Oceanic TWC and getting about the exact same channel package. I am putting the entire purchase on a credit card with 24 months same as cash, so to pay off in that time it's about $55/month, so about $5/month savings, but of course I get residual value of the TiVo equipment that I would own instead of lease, and then after 2 years the savings are real.

Does that explain it now?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

It explains what you're doing, but not your conundrum. The XB1 and the TiVo are very different things. I still don't understand why you're trying to choose between them. If you want a game system then get an XB1, if you want a TiVo and to save $5/mo then get the TiVo. There is very little overlap in functionality so they're not really interchangeable.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

I didn't say they "were" the same, I was hypothesizing because I'm not really in a hurry to have to switch at the moment since I have the Genie. What I don't want to do is spend all that money on the Roamio and minis then a few months later the XBone comes along and does support external tuners and HDDs with DVR functionality and no lifetime or monthly fees. 

I am salivating over all the TiVo love, but I don't want to use that to make an irrational decision either, so I'm looking for a reality check I guess. I was basically asking if anyone knew more than I currently did that would give me enough info that it'd be worth it to at least wait and see......get it????

D you even know what an Xbox 360 can do with a pc, wmc and a tuner? If you did you wouldn't be replying as you are I'd think. The XBone basically can and will possibly replace the "pc" part of the equation, as someone mentioned previously.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Philmatic said:


> The Xboc One is a fullly featured x86 computer with tons of horsepower as well as low power modes. Microsoft can make it do whatever it wants. It can support U-Verse with a software update and can support Digital Cable with an external USB device.
> 
> So, they CAN, but WILL they? It's unlikely.


^^^^^^here^^^^^^^


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

HarperVision said:


> Yeah that's kind of what I was hoping to find out with this thread....."will" they?! I was hoping someone was more in "the know" about it than I currently am. I guess it's about the same as last I checked in on it over at AVS. Maybe I'll just hold off a couple months and find out before I decide.


There's no way they're going to use Cablecard PC tuners to get video, so how exactly is the Xbone going to be a DVR? Via some yet to be determined net streaming provider, someday? And then they'd have to run Media Center locally when by all accounts they've shut down active development on that software?

This is wishful thinking IMO, and not a reason to justify whether or not to upgrade a Tivo. The Roamio has absolutely nothing to do with the Xbone.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

in THEORY they could make it a DVR for AT&T U-verse customers... but if they were going to do that, why not do it with the Xbox 360? And why no announcement? That would be exciting if the XBone could be a UVerse tuner. I think it's safe to assume that is not in the immediate (first year of launch) future.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

HarperVision said:


> D you even know what an Xbox 360 can do with a pc, wmc and a tuner? If you did you wouldn't be replying as you are I'd think. The XBone basically can and will possibly replace the "pc" part of the equation, as someone mentioned previously.


I'm very aware of what Media Center and XBox can do together. It's kind of my business. (Ever heard of VideoReDo?) And with tuners like the HDHomeRun out there, which are CableCARD tuners that function via Ethernet, it would be very, very, easy for MS to add DVR functionality to the XB1. However I don't think they will. They've actually stopped developing Media Center on the PC so for them it's a an end of life product.

That being said there was something in the XB1 announcement about it being able to dual boot Windows 8. If someone can figure out how to install MCE into that copy of Windows 8 then it might be possible to convert and XB1 into a HTPC using an HDHomeRun or maybe even a Ceton USB tuner. We wont really know for sure until they get into the hands of people willing to try. MS certainly isn't going to announce the capability.


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## anthonymoody (Apr 29, 2008)

There's another way Msft (or Sony) could make either of the next gen consoles DVRs. It'd take two things:

1) A cable app, ala the twc app coming for Xbox one 

2) A cable provider like Cablevision who is heavily pushing their DVR in the cloud service. No DVR box is required in the home, only a regular HD box. Though there is lag, it basically works the same as having a local DVR box.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

That cloud DVR uses the VOD system, which still requires a tuner.


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## TrooperOrange (Apr 23, 2012)

The xbone TV functionality just seems like crap to be frank.

Another UI on top of my existing UI that only can tune live TV via an IR blaster? Are you kidding me? Sounds like one giant mess.

If there were to offer any cable/dvr type service in the future with the xbone I would bet money it would be IP based.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I doubt seriously we'll see any official DVR functionality. However we'll have to wait and see what the hackers can do. It is basically an x86 PC and they said it could boot into Win8, so it may not be that hard to make it into an HTPC.


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## anthonymoody (Apr 29, 2008)

Dan203 said:


> That cloud DVR uses the VOD system, which still requires a tuner.


Perhaps as currently deployed. But there is zero technical reason that the app couldn't be developed to include cloud DVR functionality and delivery via the app. None.

Whether it happens is a separate question obviously. But that's a way more likely scenario than any USB/wmc/Ceton outboard tuner scenario IMO.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I think a standalone company tried to do that once and they got sued out of existence. Maybe if Cablevision survives this lawsuit and wins we'll see another company attempt it. But the cable companies don't really have an incentive to use a pure IP solution when it's easier for them to use the VOD system in place.


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## anthonymoody (Apr 29, 2008)

Dan203 said:


> I think a standalone company tried to do that once and they got sued out of existence. Maybe if Cablevision survives this lawsuit and wins we'll see another company attempt it. But the cable companies don't really have an incentive to use a pure IP solution when it's easier for them to use the VOD system in place.


Well, Cablevision has already survived this lawsuit and my assumption was that what I described would result from a good working partnership between a cable co and msft/sne. In other words, CV and say Msft would work together to make it happen.

As for motivation, I think down the road we'll see the geographic boundaries currently governing cable (tv) operations come to an end. They'll all chase a national footprint where every household is a potential customer. But they would do that not by pulling lines and installing boxes everywhere, but by being essentially just another OTT delivery service. So you'd still need a local broadband solution but could choose from any number of "cable" companies for TV. At that point, the features delivered by company's app, and the methods in which the app as available (eg on game consoles and BR players) matter.

Said in a much simpler way...wouldn't it be awesome if TWC, Comcast, et al had tv/dvr apps that were as ubiquitously available as Netflix's app is today? Talk about competition! And since this seems to be where apple, intel and others are already trying to get to, I think we can count on the incumbents to join the party and fight fire with fire sooner or later.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

That would be awesome but a lot of laws would have to be changed for that to happen. I think we're at least a decade, maybe more, out from that happening.


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## anthonymoody (Apr 29, 2008)

Which laws? You mean cable franchises? I wouldn't think so, if marketed as an OTT service...


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

If you offered it as an OTT service the cable companies might start doing things like lowering data caps or throttling bandwidth to prevent you from using it. Since cable companies are usually also the only good broadband provider for most people (DSL sucks) cable companies have a lot of leverage to make sure such a service wouldn't succeed.


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## anthonymoody (Apr 29, 2008)

Agreed they have tons of leverage. I do think that the open Internet will ultimately be legislated to prevent throttling as a discriminatory/anti-competitive thing. But we shall see. 
Data caps as a de-facto form of throttling is a tougher case to prove and so may ultimately be the downfall of my hopes...


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

What about this:

"Microsoft moves into TV
I can't argue with TiVo as it stands right now, but over the longer term, the company looks to be facing competition from a number of heavy-hitting tech giants. TiVo excels at standing in between consumers and cable providers, but other companies, such as Microsoft , are about to enter that space.

The upcoming Xbox One is far more than a video-game console. Rather, as its name suggests, it aims to be the one device consumers turn to for all of their entertainment needs. When Microsoft unveiled the device, it actually focused more on its TV capabilities than its gaming prowess.

By attaching an existing cable box to the Xbox One, cable subscribers can access their content through hand gestures and voice commands. Simply saying, "watch HBO" will change the channel. The Xbox One serves up recommendations, and lets owners see trending shows and movies. It allows for multitasking, Internet browsing, and live voice calls. Microsoft has partnered with the NFL for fantasy football, and plans to roll out additional features in the future.

At $500, it's more expensive than the Roamio, but unlike TiVo's offering, it can play the latest console games. For someone with the money to spend on the ultimate TV experience, the Xbox One might be the better buy."

From here: http://www.dailyfinance.com/2013/09/03/tivos-roamio/

I don't know about all you guys, but as I'm writing this and I'm currently hooking up my new pro as we speak, and I also have a couple SD HDHR Prime 3CC tuners with WMC and Xbox extenders (and most likely an XBone coming in November for my son), I get a sick feeling that if I keep the TiVo Roamio Pro, even though I can loop it thru the XBone, that it'll have so much other tech and options in it that I'm going to feel like I wasted a crap ton of $$$ on it along with the Minis and Lifetime service?

PLEASE someone reassure me that my future visions (which have been surprisingly very accurate over the years I might add!) may be skewed or incorrect. :-/

Mahalo,
Dave "torn between 2 awesome geek toys" Harper


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## anthonymoody (Apr 29, 2008)

Dave I have the same anxieties as you. I have a feeling that sooner or later either a PS4 or XBO (or appletv...) will eliminate the need for a separate cable box entirely via OTT apps (I think the hdmi passthrough of the XBO, combined with IR repeaters and double overlays is a poor solution). 

In the meantime though I will enjoy my Roamio Plus. And, my gut is that it will be in the range of at least a couple-3 years before an app based solution offers *all* the features of the TiVo, if ever.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Thanks Anthony! I'm not so much worried about OTT replacing broadcast cable DVR just yet. What i mean is, why wouldn't I just use my HDHomerun Primes and my PC with WMC and XBox 360 extenders for now, and then add the XBone into the mix in Nov? I've been messing with my son's 360 and I gotta tell you the GUI, interface, integration and OTT apps and performance are pretty impressive and it's only going to get better once XBone is released. I have Time warner and they just released their app for the 360 to watch over 300 channels, they have a very cool ESPN app, FOXNow, TV news apps and all the regular apps like netflix, hulu, vudu, amazon, plays your home media, etc etc etc.

I just have this gut feeling that if not immediately, then soon after release that there will be some cool interaction with your 360s and most importantly for this forum's clientele, the hub of your whole home media system including using external Ethernet or USB tuners and HDDs as a stop gap to what you're saying with OTT apps replacing it eventually. 

I personally think this change in TV is happening a lot sooner than many people here think and Microsoft is a LOT bigger to be able to roll with these changes than TiVo can. Don't get me wrong one bit though, I LOVE me some TiVo too!!! I just can't shake these feelings. 

Cheers,
Dave "are you ready for some football!!!" Harper


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## Joe Siegler (May 10, 2000)

I don't think TiVo will go away. I think Apple probably has a better shot of making a dent than Microsoft does.

Remember, Microsoft was going to take control of everything with the MSN TV back in the day, and also with the Zune to dethrone the iPod, and the Surface kill the iPad. We'll see how much of an impact it really has.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

I'd agree with you in those other points, but their Xbox platform is a whole other story and is wildly successful.


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## anthonymoody (Apr 29, 2008)

I hear you about interface and performance. I use a ps3 for both bluray and all non-iTunes media streaming...amazon, Netflix, Vudu and they all work phenomenally. 

I've eyed the TWC app situation on Xbox with envy. I have family who are subs and would check it out if they ever rolled it out on PS3 (or 4...)


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

anthonymoody said:


> I hear you about interface and performance. I use a ps3 for both bluray and all non-iTunes media streaming...amazon, Netflix, Vudu and they all work phenomenally.
> 
> I've eyed the TWC app situation on Xbox with envy. I have family who are subs and would check it out if they ever rolled it out on PS3 (or 4...)


Egg-zackley!!!


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

This may all be a moot point for me anyway cuz I'm having the tuning and black screen issue on my pro, so I hooked up my hdhr prime, paired the cable card with it and have been testing windows MC and the very same channels I had so many issues tuning on the TiVo come popping right up in milliseconds in Media Center! The hardware may be making my decision for me. :/


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## anthonymoody (Apr 29, 2008)

Sometimes I wish I didn't hate windows so much


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

WEll the Time Warner app doesn't time shift nor skip commercials. 

The ESPN app is great for watching content they aren't showing on the ESPN channels, but I found the picture to be substandard. And the controls to skip through the video to be substandard as well. 

The WMC experience won't change with the xbox one so ...not seeing the problem here.

You either want WMC or Tivo. Want to time shift programs and skip commercials or not.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

trip1eX said:


> WEll the Time Warner app doesn't time shift nor skip commercials.
> 
> The ESPN app is great for watching content they aren't showing on the ESPN channels, but I found the picture to be substandard. And the controls to skip through the video to be substandard as well.
> 
> ...


I think you and many others are missing the entire point of the thread. I'm NOT talking about just the WMC experience that I and so many people have been using for years with a pc and extenders. Sure, that's the first, interim stage of this, but what I AM talking about is whether the XBox One will REPLACE the current PC portion of that setup (using an external Ethernet or USB cable card tuner and external hard drive (geez how many times do I have to say that in is thread?!?!?!), a la' the Ceton, Silicon Dust, ATI, etc), which we already know from a GUI standpoint is a much different experience for the guide, etc. than the current Windows Media Center. Then you can use the XBox 360s as extenders and media hubs at each of your other TVs which is where you get your *LIVE TV, PAUSED TV, TIME SHIFTED RECORDED TV*, apps such as TWC, espn, Netflix, Hulu, amazon, etc etc etc.(similar to a roku and many more than TiVo currently or may ever have!) Then of course there's the whole IPTV possibilities. I could go on and on.

I KNOW you can't time shift or skip commercials within those apps, but you're also missing the point there as well. Those apps are an ADDED BONUS to the DVR functionality you're already getting with the tuner, e-HDD, XBone, 360 setup I just mentioned above! Imagine you have an HDHR Prime 3CC which only has 3 tuners, and 2 are recording and someone else is watching the third, well NOW you can and have the option of watching another channel of live TV with the TWC or espn apps, without another physical tuner!

What I see is TiVo "promising" a lot, which does sound cool, but right now Microsoft already has it, and is a LOT bigger company which bodes well for research and implementation of future technologies and capabilities.

Are you seeing the problem NOW? Is anyone even really reading this whole thread? I guess a few hundred years ago you would've told me the world is flat if I would've mentioned I believe there's strong evidence that its round. 

So, you either want to try to understand what I'm trying to get across here, or not. Want to move into the future, or not.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Well sure there's lots of boxes that can run apps but none of them other than an HTPC can do it alongside WMC (and that won't change since the Xbone won't do WMC), so what's your point?

At best the Xbone will be yet another streamer and possibly a crappy cloud-based DVR, but it won't work as you dream it will. And it will actually be worse without WMC.

Agree that once we move past all this Cablecard nonsense into the IPTV streaming world, Tivo will look like a sad sack compared to just about everyone else, EXCEPT that it will still be a great DVR. You can't say that about anything else at this point, including the Xbone. It's just wishful thinking at this point that the Xbone could ever replace a Tivo, or even that MS would want it to.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

slowbiscuit said:


> Well sure there's lots of boxes that can run apps but none of them other than an HTPC can do it alongside WMC (and that won't change since the Xbone won't do WMC), so what's your point?
> 
> At best the Xbone will be yet another streamer and possibly a crappy cloud-based DVR, but it won't work as you dream it will. And it will actually be worse without WMC.
> 
> Agree that once we move past all this Cablecard nonsense into the IPTV streaming world, Tivo will look like a sad sack compared to just about everyone else, EXCEPT that it will still be a great DVR. You can't say that about anything else at this point, including the Xbone. It's just wishful thinking at this point that the Xbone could ever replace a Tivo, or even that MS would want it to.


My point is, no one knows that for sure as its an evolving platform that hasn't even been released yet. And you just hit the nail right on the head for the purpose of this thread......it's a "what if" hypothetical discussion and in my mind always has been. When I posted it I was just seeking out anyone who may have more information than I currently did about the XBone's TV potential, and apparently no one here does, so just forget it. I'm just trying to evaluate whether there's a real possibility in the not too distant future that if I purchase my TiVo pro, 3 minis and lifetime for all that I'm not essentially flushing most of the costs invested down the toilet ($1750+) "should" the XBone theory I surmised happens to pan out. There is some evidence that indeed it "may"!

I quote from their website:

"** Supported television tuner *OR* cable/satellite set top box with HDMI output and HDMI cable required (all sold separately)."

Oh yeah, I haven't even mentioned the fact that there's also an Internet browser (IE) and their partnership with the NFL which "could" also mean something similar to NFL Sunday Ticket on it, amongst other things.

I guess no one here knows any more than I do, so it's all moot even discussing it here. To me this is a similar discussion to people asking a few months back if they should buy a premiere 4 and minis with the imminent release of a new TiVo series 5 coming. I'll decide on my own and just wait until its released to see what the future holds.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

slowbiscuit said:


> Well sure there's lots of boxes that can run apps but none of them other than an HTPC can do it alongside WMC (and that won't change since the Xbone won't do WMC), so what's your point?


So WMC was, is and will forever be the ONLY thing to ever have the capability to accomplish this? THAT is my point!



slowbiscuit said:


> At best the Xbone will be yet another streamer and possibly a crappy cloud-based DVR, but it won't work as you dream it will. And it will actually be worse without WMC.


Well I'm certainly glad you're able to see into the future! Can you tell me which stocks are about to hit it big soon and what the name and sex of my first grandchild will be? :-/


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

X-Box One is game machine at it's core. Buy it to play Halo. DVR like functions are vaporware.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Exactly.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

HarperVision said:


> I'm just trying to evaluate whether there's a real possibility in the not too distant future that if I purchase my TiVo pro, 3 minis and lifetime for all that I'm not essentially flushing most of the costs invested down the toilet ($1750+) "should" the XBone theory I surmised happens to pan out. There is some evidence that indeed it "may"!
> 
> I quote from their website:
> 
> "** Supported television tuner *OR* cable/satellite set top box with HDMI output and HDMI cable required (all sold separately)."


Uh yeah, for HDMI passthrough with overlays, not as a DVR (see: Google TV). That's the point you keep missing when comparing it to a Tivo setup. The Xbone as DVR is simply wishful thinking not backed by anything that MS has said about what it will do, TV-wise.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

tenthplanet said:


> X-Box One is game machine at it's core. Buy it to play Halo. DVR like functions are vaporware.


Isn't the XBOne supposed to constantly record the most recent five minutes of gameplay? I think the PS4 is doing the last 15 minutes?


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## anthonymoody (Apr 29, 2008)

I think it's less about what has or hasn't specifically been said than it is (for me) a contemplation of where things may be headed given current trends. It's not enough for me to hold off - indeed I'm a (mostly) happy owner of a Roamio Plus. Once the cc firmware issues have been sorted and I can use all 6 tuners I'll be even happier. And happier still when the Opera App Store and place shifting are enabled. 

Fwiw I still see no reason that DVR functionality couldn't be baked into a cable co OTT app on an XBO or ps4. I'd prefer it to use local storage rather than be cloud based, but either is technically possible afaik. 

All said another way, I'd happily take a Roamio that had a BR player built in and call it a day. Or, similarly, an XBO/ps4 with an OTT cable co/DVR app built in and call it a day.

And that would still leave me with 2 boxes bc I'd still use an appletv for all my iTunes locked content.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The XBox One is basically a PC, so anything is possible. It even runs a version of Windows 8 and allows 3rd party app development, so it's likely we'll see apps from developers like SiliconeDust and CETON to use their external tuners for live TV viewing on the XB1. However DVR functionality requires background processing at the OS level. So the only one that's going to be able to add true DVR functionality is MS. And as of right now they have not even hinted at the possibility. It's something they could do in the future, but who knows when/if that will ever happen. I certainly wouldn't count on it.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

I guess we shall see then, huh? It's still an interesting dilemma and I believe worthy of discussion and consideration when making an expensive decision such as this.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

HarperVision said:


> I guess we shall see then, huh? It's still an interesting dilemma and I believe worthy of discussion and consideration when making an expensive decision such as this.


I'm not sure many people are really making that "decision". There is little, if any, overlap between a Roamio and an XB1. There could be, someday, if MS decides to add DVR functionality. But that's a big if.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

I beg to differ with IPTV, cloud dvr and the external tuner possibilities. To not add that into your decision making process when evaluating the cost over the next couple years like we do when compared to renting a cable box or paying TiVo monthly. If in that timeframe the XBone surpasses TiVo, then it's VERY valid. To not look at this and other technologies emerging (Apple, Intel, etc.) coming fast and furious would be shortsighted when there's such a large cash outlay for tivo hardware and service, that your banking will pay off for you in the "amortized" future.

Time to take off the TiVo colored glasses and see the entire spectrum that is out there! Like I said, I love me some TiVo and I've had one since the first Philips 14hr unit, but I have to consider ALL possibilities.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

TiVos with lifetime tend to retain the vast majority of their value for about 2 years. So why not buy a TiVo now and then if something better comes along sell it. The loss will be almost certainly be less then throwing away money renting a cable company DVR.


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## bradenmcg (Dec 29, 2007)

MS is trying to get out of the "recording TV game." Evidence of this is found in Windows 8 not even including WMC anymore unless you fork over more money for the license. WMC in Win8 was also barely changed/improved -- they basically rolled in all of the patches from Win7, but AFAIK there weren't any massive changes to it.

Just wait until you see what happens with weekly emergency broadcast system tests on a 360 acting as a WMC extender... you'll change your tune quickly.  (It is an incredibly annoying bug that MS has known about for a while and hasn't touched.)

Also, the XBone doesn't include WMC Extender functionality at all.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

bradenmcg said:


> WMC in Win8 was also barely changed/improved -- they basically rolled in all of the patches from Win7, but AFAIK there weren't any massive changes to it.


MS has discontinued development of Media Center. Unless they change their mind Windows 8 will be the last version to even have it as an option. They pulled it completely from Windows embedded which is why that Ceton standalone DVR was pulled from production last minute and all pre-orders canceled.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

HarperVision said:


> Time to take off the TiVo colored glasses and see the entire spectrum that is out there! Like I said, I love me some TiVo and I've had one since the first Philips 14hr unit, but I have to consider ALL possibilities.


The only rose colored glasses here are being worn by you while dreaming about vaporware on the Xbone. I don't think I've seen anyone agree with your 'possibilities'.


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## tbielowicz (Apr 16, 2009)

If anything, I can see Apple or Msft acquiring TiVo if they decide to really go after this segment. 

I hear rumors that Apple with be launching a new Apple TV in October. We will have to wait on that one. 

I do love the features where you can voice control and hand motion control the Xbone. That is just awesome. The current Kinect is ok as long as you are close and alone in the room, but the new Kinect seems to be vastly improved. 

Time will tell, but I feel that all new DVR functionality will move to the cloud 3-5 yrs from now.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

slowbiscuit said:


> The only rose colored glasses here are being worn by you while dreaming about vaporware on the Xbone. I don't think I've seen anyone agree with your 'possibilities'.


It's not vaporware at all because at worst from day one I'll be able to hook my HDMI tuner (tivo, cable dvr, xbox 360 MCE, directv etc) through it and take advantage of its tv integration functionality and WAY more apps than Roamio, as well as Blu ray and gaming and a host of other functions. Plus at least it has the "possibility" of being more (IPTV, cloud dvr, etc), which is also most likely more than you can say about TiVo.

Look, I'm not trying to bash TiVo. I said it many times, I LOVE it......for what it is. It's just a LOT of $$$ initial investment so I'm trying to think ahead and also weigh my options and the easiest path to get there later on.

Have you ever setup WMC whole home with decent extenders and multiple tuners with cablecards? Its essentially tivo without the high priced "service charges" that i personally am starting to feel would be better spent towards things like bigger storage, upgrading components, etc. If so and it worked well with a good setup, I think you and others would see my point a lot more clearly.

Damn, I feel like a Windows guy in a Mac Forum, sheesh!


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

bradenmcg said:


> Just wait until you see what happens with weekly emergency broadcast system tests on a 360 acting as a WMC extender... you'll change your tune quickly.  (It is an incredibly annoying bug that MS has known about for a while and hasn't touched.)[/URL].





Beryl said:


> The emergency broadcast system doesn't work right on the Roamio. Instead of the emergency screen with text, it just shows a blank blue screen with the TiVo logo in the top left right corner and the audio portion of the announcement.
> 
> It works fine on the Series 3 & 4 models.


I guess it doesn't work on Roamio either, so that point's moot. :-/

Oh and I know it's not going to be an extender. That's not my intention for it anyway. Guess it pays to read what's written here.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Solution.... Just do like I did and buy both.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

I certainly may do just that!


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

HarperVision said:


> It's not vaporware at all because at worst from day one I'll be able to hook my HDMI tuner (tivo, cable dvr, xbox 360 MCE, directv etc) through it and take advantage of its tv integration functionality and WAY more apps than Roamio, as well as Blu ray and gaming and a host of other functions. Plus at least it has the "possibility" of being more (IPTV, cloud dvr, etc), which is also most likely more than you can say about TiVo.
> 
> Look, I'm not trying to bash TiVo. I said it many times, I LOVE it......for what it is. It's just a LOT of $$$ initial investment so I'm trying to think ahead and also weigh my options and the easiest path to get there later on.
> 
> Have you ever setup WMC whole home with decent extenders and multiple tuners with cablecards? Its essentially tivo without the high priced "service charges" that i personally am starting to feel would be better spent towards things like bigger storage, upgrading components, etc. If so and it worked well with a good setup, I think you and others would see my point a lot more clearly.


Yes, I have a WMC system with extenders right now. I also have a Tivo Elite, and had HDs and Premieres before that. Both of these setups have pluses and minuses, but personally I prefer using the Tivo (the wife uses WMC). You cannot say that either is better than the other on a factual basis, it all depends on how you use them.

What makes you think the Roamio couldn't do future IPTV or cloud-based DVR services? sbiller already posted a thread about Tivo wanting to do cloud services for cableCos, and IPTV is just waiting on an industry standard for Tivo to implement. Granted, the Xbone might get there quicker because just about anyone is faster to market than the snail-like Tivo, but they'll be the best DVR for whatever comes after cards IMO.


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