# Verizon FiOS: First 4K broadcast tonight 5/11



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Try it out if you have a Bolt and let's see what happens. It's supposedly a QAM broadcast.

From the DSLR boards:

"The NASCAR 5/11 event at 7:30p in Kansas will be available in 4K on channel 1499– however, note that 1499 may not be active until the event starts. Broadcast by FS1 4k."

Set a manual recording for 7:30 to 11 PM ET. There is no useful guide data for this blank channel.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Right now a card showing in MPEG2 HD.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Video PID is showing "unknown" right now, but on screen it's showing 2160p.


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## jay_man2 (Sep 15, 2003)

Showing 2160 here. Nice.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

23 mbps bitrate.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Appears to be a successful broadcast and test. The Diagnostics screen doesn't entirely know what to do with it, but it's recording and displaying.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Will the bolt downrez if you don’t have a 4K tv? I’m not at home to test.


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## mrsean (May 15, 2006)

I'm getting a black screen with a blue box saying "This channel is not authorized. Contact your cable provider for more information (V58)." I can hear the audio from the event though. This is on a Roamio btw.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

mrsean said:


> I'm getting a black screen with a blue box saying "This channel is not authorized. Contact your cable provider for more information (V58)." I can hear the audio from the event though. This is on a *Roamio* btw.


That would certainly present a hurdle in tuning/processing the 4K video.


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

It works! Audio and video both working for me. Too bad I don't like NASCAR.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

I only have HD TV but Bolt is tuning program and is outputting normal HD. So, I guess it is down rezzing. Picture looks pretty damn good. Sound is better on regular FS1. 

Fios box won’t tune as it is not 4K


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

I tried to record this on my Roamio just for fun. I recorded a 3-hour block from 7-10pm.

It only recorded 6 minutes. Well, that's what the progress bar shows. And I can't FF past the 6min mark.

I only get a Verizon Fios message screen (same that was present early in the afternoon) but right at that 6min mark the audio changes from some VZ muzak to the FOX Sports theme. It seems to be on a loop.

I imagine maybe at 7:30 when the program began I'd hear the audio from the race but since I can't FF I didn't listen to the FOX Sports theme on the loop for 24 minutes to find out


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## martzta (Nov 11, 2003)

I did a quick comparison with the regular FS1 channel and didn't see much of a difference. Probably due to the scaling done by the bolt and/or tv or their compression. Just for the heck of it I tried to tune the channel on a mini and just got a black screen. Makes sense since it doesn't support 4k. But hey, at least it's a start.


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## markjrenna (Mar 23, 2006)

Looked fantastic! Eats DVR space like crazy though!


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## rdrrepair (Nov 24, 2006)

Assuming it took up twice the storage space of 3 hrs of HD? Will there be a repeat?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

martzta said:


> I did a quick comparison with the regular FS1 channel and didn't see much of a difference.


You didn't state whether your TV is 4K, and if the BOLT otherwise outputs 4K to the TV from the supported streaming apps.


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## martzta (Nov 11, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> You didn't state whether your TV is 4K, and if the BOLT otherwise outputs 4K to the TV from the supported streaming apps.


Sorry, yes 4k TV and Bolt output 4K. Both looked good, just not much difference to me.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

markjrenna said:


> Looked fantastic! Eats DVR space like crazy though!


Interesting. Did anyone record the whole thing, and how much space did it consume?



BigJimOutlaw said:


> 23 mbps bitrate.


What's the math say, then? 28 GiB for the 3-hr recording? Can KMTTG offload it?


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## JerryB01 (Feb 15, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> Interesting. Did anyone record the whole thing, and how much space did it consume?
> What's the math say, then? 28 GiB for the 3-hr recording? Can KMTTG offload it?


Here the info from my recording:
33.4 GiB, 3 hr 30 min
1 Video stream - HEVC
3840*2160 (16:9) at 59.94 (60000/1001) FPS, HEVC (Component) (Main [email protected]@Main)
1 AudioStream: AAC LC
English, 48.0 kHz, AAC LC (ADTS) (Version 2)


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

dammit... if I had known I could have recorded it but I was away yesterday and didn't see this until this morning.
Any future tests scheduled?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JerryB01 said:


> 33.4 GiB, 3 hr 30 min


Thanks. So must be close to the same bitrate posted above, as 3.5 hours at that bitrate comes to ~33.7 GiB.


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## jay_man2 (Sep 15, 2003)

I tried playing back the recording from my Series 4, and the sound played but the screen was black. I figured it wouldn't play back properly, but was curious.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> You didn't state whether your TV is 4K, and if the BOLT otherwise outputs 4K to the TV from the supported streaming apps.


I don't have 4K but could see a difference. No breakup edges on lights or flares. The long shots of the track were almost perfect. Fast action had less blur. And that was from a down resolution to 1080. Everything just seemed more real.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Based on a comment I read on the Verizon FiOS TV forum at DSL Reports, it sounds like Verizon may have taken down a bunch of SD QAM channels from various pro sports packages to free up the space for this one 4K HDR QAM channel.

It's cool that 4K is becoming more common on live TV and that the Bolt can access it, at least from FiOS.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

For me kmttg fails when it tries to decode the .tivo file, so I can't play it back. I would have gotten some full-res snapshots if I could.

No other events are currently scheduled.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

NashGuy said:


> Based on a comment I read on the Verizon FiOS TV forum at DSL Reports, it sounds like Verizon may have taken down a bunch of SD QAM channels from various pro sports packages to free up the space for this one 4K HDR QAM channel.
> 
> It's cool that 4K is becoming more common on live TV and that the Bolt can access it, at least from FiOS.


They did take down the SD versions of extra innings, etc. Not sure that was the reason as they could have just put a blank on those channels for a few hours. They took them 100% down. Since they have them all in HD, they were redundant.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

TonyD79 said:


> They did take down the SD versions of extra innings, etc. Not sure that was the reason as they could have just put a blank on those channels for a few hours. They took them 100% down. Since they have them all in HD, they were redundant.


It could be coincidental but I wonder if the fact that those SD channels were completely taken down means that the new 4K channel will be permanent going forward?


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## Salacious Crumb (Jan 1, 2019)

I want 8K.
Tvs already out - best buy has a 65" for $4500.


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## JLV03 (Feb 12, 2018)

I don't know why, but I was always under the impression that the Bolt lacked the tuning hardware for 4k and did 4k for apps only. I'm guessing it has 4k QAM hardware but nothing for OTA (as ATSC 3.0 isn't released yet or at the time of Bolt's launch)?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JLV03 said:


> I don't know why, but I was always under the impression that the Bolt lacked the tuning hardware for 4k and did 4k for apps only. I'm guessing it has 4k QAM hardware but nothing for OTA (as ATSC 3.0 isn't released yet or at the time of Bolt's launch)?


Correct. See here for a possible solution:

TiVo ATSC 3.0


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I recorded a portion of the UHD NASCAR broadcast and kmttg showed it had a bitrate of around 23Mb/s. From what I saw that seemed to make the quality similar to the UHD the streaming services have at 15Mb/s. WHich puts it about on par with the quality of a 2K BD. But it looks better because of HDR and the higher color volume.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> I recorded a portion of the UHD NASCAR broadcast and kmttg showed it had a bitrate of around 23Mb/s.


Any luck downloading and then decoding it using KMTTG?


BigJimOutlaw said:


> 23 mbps bitrate.





BigJimOutlaw said:


> For me kmttg fails when it tries to decode the .tivo file, so I can't play it back. I would have gotten some full-res snapshots if I could.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> Any luck downloading and then decoding it using KMTTG?
> ​


Yes I had no problem downloading it to a PC with kmttg and stripping the .tivo extension. I was then able to stream it to other devices or play it back on the pc.

From the TiVo I was able to get HDR from my SOny UHD TV, since it can handle HLG HDR. But my TCL UHD TV only handles Dolby Vision and HDR10. So I could only view it SDR.


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

Is there any chance that the file information could be provided to PyTivo developers? My understanding is that the main barrier to getting 4K to transfer was the lack of any real-world 4K recordings on which to model the transfers.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

aaronwt said:


> Yes I had no problem downloading it to a PC with kmttg and stripping the .tivo extension. I was then able to stream it to other devices or play it back on the pc.
> 
> From the TiVo I was able to get HDR from my SOny UHD TV, since it can handle HLG HDR. But my TCL UHD TV only handles Dolby Vision and HDR10. So I could only view it SDR.


Is there any chance you could send me a sample of the original .tivo file? If you're a VideoReDo user you should be able to use Trim & Copy to grab a few hundred MB and then you can upload it here....

Upload Files to VideoReDo

That upload script will accept up to 2GB. If you need to upload a bigger chunk this will allow up to 10GB...

Upload Files to VideoReDo

After you're done shoot me an email at support AT videoredo.com with subject Attn Dan Haddix.

I'd like a sample of this file both for VideoReDo and pyTivo development purposes


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Anyone with a Mini VOX able to report results for this 4K program ... when tuned by a BOLT vs a Roamio or Premiere?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> Anyone with a Mini VOX able to report results for this 4K program ... when tuned by a BOLT vs a Roamio or Premiere?


Yes, I was able to select the channel and get it on my Mini VOX. From the Bolt host.

Sent from my Galaxy S10


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> I don't have 4K but could see a difference. No breakup edges on lights or flares. The long shots of the track were almost perfect. Fast action had less blur. And that was from a down resolution to 1080. Everything just seemed more real.


Gotta agree. Not a nascar guy but the amount of hard lines, fast motion, etc. could make for a mess. But I saw no signs blocking, motion blur, etc. It was a very nice pic, even on a 1080p screen.


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## JerryB01 (Feb 15, 2015)

Dan203 said:


> Is there any chance you could send me a sample of the original .tivo file? If you're a VideoReDo user you should be able to use Trim & Copy to grab a few hundred MB and then you can upload it here....


I don't want to hijack a Tivo thread but I have a copy of the file recorded to my NAS from my HDHomeRun Prime if that would be of any help. I haven't tried editing it in VideoRedo but it does open an play in the V6 beta.


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## mrsean (May 15, 2006)

Can some explain to me how a Bolt can see a 4K cable broadcast and a Roamio only 1080i? I thought they both only have ATSC 1.0 tuners.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

mrsean said:


> Can some explain to me how a Bolt can see a 4K cable broadcast and a Roamio only 1080i? I thought they both only have ATSC 1.0 tuners.


Two factors: CPU and tuners.

The CPU in the Bolt is capable of decoding and displaying 4K and HEVC video, while the Roamio's can't.

The tuners are a separate matter. ATSC is an OTA standard. Existing cable standards can allow for 4K HEVC broadcasts. ATSC 1.0 standards do not.


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## mrsean (May 15, 2006)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Two factors: CPU and tuners.
> 
> The CPU in the Bolt is capable of decoding and displaying 4K and HEVC video, while the Roamio's can't.
> 
> The tuners are a separate matter. ATSC is an OTA standard. Existing cable standards can allow for 4K HEVC broadcasts. ATSC 1.0 standards do not.


Wow. I never knew this. Thanks, BiJimOutlaw!

Now for the next question. Could a Mini Vox display 4K HEVC video if the host box is a Roamio?


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

JerryB01 said:


> I don't want to hijack a Tivo thread but I have a copy of the file recorded to my NAS from my HDHomeRun Prime if that would be of any help.


It would not, but thanks for the thought.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

JerryB01 said:


> I don't want to hijack a Tivo thread but I have a copy of the file recorded to my NAS from my HDHomeRun Prime if that would be of any help. I haven't tried editing it in VideoRedo but it does open an play in the V6 beta.


Actually would like to see that as well. We'd like as many 4K HEVC samples as we can get


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Not sure if an undecoded .tivo file is useful, but in case it is I send over a 5 minute snip. I can't seem to decode it with kmttg. It might have a bad setting or something.


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## JerryB01 (Feb 15, 2015)

Dan203 said:


> Actually would like to see that as well. We'd like as many 4K HEVC samples as we can get


First 200 MB of the file uploaded and email sent to support as outlined in the provided URL.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Fox Sports is broadcasting the World Cup partly in 4K next month. Verizon hasn't confirmed airing it yet, but it could be the next opportunity. We might not know for sure until a day or two prior. But heads up.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

Wow! I totally missed that. Are you saying I can watch 4K broadcasts via my Bolt+ 3TB on FIOS?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

thyname said:


> Wow! I totally missed that. Are you saying I can watch 4K broadcasts via my Bolt+ 3TB on FIOS?


Occasionally, on a trial basis, it appears. Sounds like you missed the first go 'round; but fingers crossed that some World Cup games will get the 4K treatment ... and that their info will be posted here to alert all interested parties.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

thyname said:


> Wow! I totally missed that. Are you saying I can watch 4K broadcasts via my Bolt+ 3TB on FIOS?


Yes. You can record it from the QAM tuner. And transfer it to a PC for viewing on other devices.

What I recorded from the FiOS 4K NASCAR broadcast was around a 23Mbps bitrate with HLG HDR. 
It looked similar to the Streaming services top UHD encodes. Which basically look like a good quality 2K BD. Only the 4k streaming and 4K broadcast look better because of the HDR and higher color volume.

Sent from my Galaxy S10


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

krkaufman said:


> Occasionally, on a trial basis, it appears. Sounds like you missed the first go 'round; but fingers crossed that some World Cup games will get the 4K treatment ... and that their info will be posted here to alert all interested parties.


This is great news and very encouraging! Glad to know my Bolt+ can do 4K broadcasts


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

Dan, just curious if you'd had any luck on the PyTivo side, getting 4K transfers working from this content?



Dan203 said:


> Actually would like to see that as well. We'd like as many 4K HEVC samples as we can get


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I haven’t had a chance to even look at it yet. Been very busy lately as we're trying to get VideoReDo v6 out the door.


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

It's very selfish of you to prioritize your professional or personal obligations over rando Internet weirdos demanding free software from you.


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## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> I haven't had a chance to even look at it yet. Been very busy lately as we're trying to get VideoReDo v6 out the door.


Hi Dan,
I remember paying some fee for VideoReDo years ago. What would I have to do and have for hardware to upgrade?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

fyodor said:


> Dan, just curious if you'd had any luck on the PyTivo side, getting 4K transfers working from this content?


kmttg worked for me for transferring the FiOS 4K content to a PC.
It transferred just like the HD content does.

Sent from my Nexus 7(32GB)


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Joe3 said:


> Hi Dan,
> I remember paying some fee for VideoReDo years ago. What would I have to do and have for hardware to upgrade?


Depends on the version. Send me an email at support AT videoredo.com with your full name and I can look up your old key.


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## ingsoc747 (Apr 5, 2017)

exdishguy said:


> It works! Audio and video both working for me. Too bad I don't like NASCAR.


LOL. I know, they couldn't pick something better for their inaugural 4k?


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

There are rumors over at Verizon DSL forums of two channels being created for 4K broadcasts World Cup (women soccer). Starting from this Friday


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## ingsoc747 (Apr 5, 2017)

thyname said:


> There are rumors over at Verizon DSL forums of two channels being created for 4K broadcasts World Cup (women soccer). Starting from this Friday


lol something even less appealing than nascar, at least to me, no offense to anyone else :O


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Looks like this is the story:

Fox has two 4K event channels. Fox Sports 1 and 2. Some other small cable companies have just recently added these channels.

*1498,* while not in the guide yet, is showing up as "Fios 4K1".
*1499* is currently blank but that might change.

Those are the channels for Fios customers to watch.

Service Electric (depending on which one you're a customer of) has some 4K channels at 801-804.

RCN's handful of 4K channels start at 1500.

So 4K cable content is now available outside of Fios too.


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## osu1991 (Mar 6, 2015)

Be nice if Cox added them. I did a trial of Fubo to watch the Kansas race in 4K HDR. Looked pretty good for a stream, other than the in car cameras.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

This is what channel 1498 is showing today
View attachment 41367


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## DigitalDawn (Apr 26, 2009)

RCN's 4K probably won't work with their TiVo service because they use Roamio-based hardware.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

DigitalDawn said:


> RCN's 4K probably won't work with their TiVo service because they use Roamio-based hardware.


RCN provides Bolt equivalents around here.


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## DigitalDawn (Apr 26, 2009)

That's fairly new then. Nice to see. I guess they have started to replace the T6.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

1498 on my fios box says I need a new box for 4K. TiVo shows me a card for France versus North Korea at 3 pm today. 1499 does not tune on fios box. TiVo is blank. No error message. Nothing.

Sound is messed up on 1498 as I hear TiVo sound effects.

No guide data for either channel but 1498 shows as a channel.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

TiVo Bolt+ worked great for the first game today in 4K. Looked very good, definitely 4K Broadcast when compared with regular Hd Fox Sports channel. Although I don’t know how to check the actual resolution on my Samsung KS8500 4K TV.

Also, TiVo does not have any Guide on this channel yet


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Today looked good. Bitrate seemed to be a consistent ~21.5

The card is showing Germany v China Saturday morning at 9 AM.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Comcast is *finally* offering live 4K with the Women's World Cup. But -- typical Comcast -- they're bitstarving the signal at only 18 Mbps. (Optimally pre-encoded on-demand 4K content from Netflix and Amazon is typically 15-16 Mbps.)

Comcast Takes First Shot at Live 4K TV | Light Reading

And, unlike FiOS, they're only offering it via IPTV. (Comcast has repeatedly stated that they will never transmit 4K content via QAM.)

TiVo Bolt fans should hold onto Verizon FiOS TV as long as they can.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

NashGuy said:


> And, unlike FiOS, they're only offering it via IPTV.


Not available in the Roku app?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

NashGuy said:


> Comcast is *finally* offering live 4K with the Women's World Cup. But -- typical Comcast -- they're bitstarving the signal at only 18 Mbps. (Optimally pre-encoded on-demand 4K content from Netflix and Amazon is typically 15-16 Mbps.)
> 
> Comcast Takes First Shot at Live 4K TV | Light Reading
> 
> ...


And that is how it should be. FiOS does not even have the bandwidth for all their HD and SD channels over QAM.. They look nothing like the did ten or even five years ago. So to be able to broadcast the UHD channels over QAM, the bandwidth would need to be further reduced from other channels, or they would need to just stop broadcasting some completely during the UHD broadcasts.

Sent from my Tab S 10.5


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

wmcbrine said:


> Not available in the Roku app?


Good question. I don't know. But even if they are, that's still managed IPTV. I *think* that Comcast won't serve content to the Xfinity Stream app on Roku unless it's connected to Comcast broadband, allowing the video stream to travel only over Comcast's own network. (That said, the mobile versions of their app, for iOS and Android, do offer access to select content when connected via cellular. But I do know that Comcast says their in-home TV service is managed IPTV, not OTT TV.)


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

aaronwt said:


> And that is how it should be. FiOS does not even have the bandwidth for all their HD and SD channels over QAM.. They look nothing like the did ten or even five years ago. So to be able to broadcast the UHD channels over QAM, the bandwidth would need to be further reduced from other channels, or they would need to just stop broadcasting some completely during the UHD broadcasts.


It basically comes down to a choice of avoiding bandwidth crowding (moving to IPTV) vs. being able to access everything (including 4K) with a retail TiVo (keeping everything on QAM). Sounds like you're voting for the former.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Bitrate seemed to be a consistent ~21.5


How do you check bitrate?


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> And that is how it should be. FiOS does not even have the bandwidth for all their HD and SD channels over QAM.. They look nothing like the did ten or even five years ago. So to be able to broadcast the UHD channels over QAM, the bandwidth would need to be further reduced from other channels, or they would need to just stop broadcasting some completely during the UHD broadcasts.
> 
> Sent from my Tab S 10.5


Seems reasonable. However, 1498 is on 243MHz, which according to charts at dslreports has no mpeg4 HD. Not sure what is on that frequency, but it wouldn't impact the majority of Fios's HD channels. I doubt they would put it on a frequency with mpeg2 HD since those are pretty inefficient. Either they opened a new frequency or they are battering SD channels. They did just take down all the SD channels for the sports packages. I doubt that is a coincidence.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

NashGuy said:


> It basically comes down to a choice of avoiding bandwidth crowding (moving to IPTV) vs. being able to access everything (including 4K) with a retail TiVo (keeping everything on QAM). Sounds like you're voting for the former.


I've already voted with my wallet. I switched to watching most of my broadcast content from streaming sources. Strictly because the FiOS HD video quality has become so bad over the last few years.

If the FiOS HD video quality was still like it was five or ten years ago , I would have stayed on the Ultimate HD tier. Instead of dropping down to the Custom TV tier.

Sent from my Tab S 10.5


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

thyname said:


> How do you check bitrate?


The easiest way is kmttg. It shows an average bitrate for recordings.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

NashGuy said:


> Comcast is *finally* offering live 4K with the Women's World Cup. But -- typical Comcast -- they're bitstarving the signal at only 18 Mbps. (Optimally pre-encoded on-demand 4K content from Netflix and Amazon is typically 15-16 Mbps.)


I really hate to defend Comcast, because what they do to their HD channels is horrible and inexcusable, BUT they may well have better and more efficient encoding than other providers. They have a LOT of encoding horsepower, and are able to get very efficient encodes.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Bigg said:


> I really hate to defend Comcast, because what they do to their HD channels is horrible and inexcusable, BUT they may well have better and more efficient encoding than other providers. They have a LOT of encoding horsepower, and are able to get very efficient encodes.


Eh, maybe so. I just know that 18 Mbps is the lowest bitrate I've ever heard of for live 4K.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

And TiVo continues to NOT have any Guide on the Verizon channel 1498 (4K channel for World Cup). Oh well...


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## xxsj (Jun 21, 2016)

Bigg said:


> I really hate to defend Comcast, because what they do to their HD channels is horrible and inexcusable, BUT they may well have better and more efficient encoding than other providers. They have a LOT of encoding horsepower, and are able to get very efficient encodes.


In metro denver region, as of about a year ago, they have duplicated all their HD channels in the 1k channel range. When I inquired as to why on their cablecard line, I was told it was to prepare for 4K.

If they only offer IPTV for 4K, and TiVo is not made compatible, I will be done with these bastards. It's bad enough they took away MGM, Cinemax, and TiVo On-Demand&#8230; I've been holding my breath for 4K for far too long.

There's still too many channels to count only offered in SD, let alone the 720p downgrade a few years back.

Glad I didn't commit to lifetime service on the VOX Bolt+, and my lifetime Bolt can do OTA ATSC 1.0 at least&#8230;



BigJimOutlaw said:


> ATSC 3.0 is a new OTA standard, but it would be interesting as an add-on for the cable Bolts as well, since it's just a network tuner.
> 
> New tuning hardware is required.
> 
> ...


And if this product comes to market perhaps the TiVo will be compatible with the IPTV signal from Comcast


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

xxsj said:


> If they only offer IPTV for 4K, and TiVo is not made compatible, I will be done with these bastards. It's bad enough they took away MGM, Cinemax, and TiVo On-Demand&#8230; I've been holding my breath for 4K for far too long.


Comcast isn't doing 4k over QAM. That being said, I wouldn't trust Comcast with 4k given how awful their HD is. Streaming is the future, and DirecTV is the top of the line for traditional pay TV.


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## xxsj (Jun 21, 2016)

Bigg said:


> Comcast isn't doing 4k over QAM. That being said, I wouldn't trust Comcast with 4k given how awful their HD is. Streaming is the future, and DirecTV is the top of the line for traditional pay TV.


DirecTV doesn't have every channel I want. Plus, I also value the open platform for CableCARD technology, I use it with PLEX, I use it with TiVo. My recordings are mine, forever.

I'm hopeful about T-Mobile's new TV service&#8230;


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

xxsj said:


> DirecTV doesn't have every channel I want. Plus, I also value the open platform for CableCARD technology, I use it with PLEX, I use it with TiVo. My recordings are mine, forever.
> 
> I'm hopeful about T-Mobile's new TV service&#8230;


No reason to be hopeful about a new TV service from T-Mobile. If they ever do roll out something else beyond T-Vision (which what they renamed Layer3 TV after buying it), it'll be a purely OTT streaming cable TV service, like AT&T TV or Hulu with Live TV. In other words, it won't work with CableCARD and you won't be able to save recordings locally.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Bigg said:


> Streaming is the future, and DirecTV is the top of the line for traditional pay TV.


You really should check out the HD picture quality from AT&T's OTT services. This week I'm taking a free trial of AT&T Watch TV (along with all the premiums it offers) and accessing it via their app on my Apple TV 4K. It's the same app as the AT&T TV app, but without certain channels or the cloud DVR feature. Anyhow, very impressed with how good live TV looks. Definitely better than DirecTV satellite. And on-demand content looks even slightly better.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

NashGuy said:


> You really should check out the HD picture quality from AT&T's OTT services. This week I'm taking a free trial of AT&T Watch TV (along with all the premiums it offers) and accessing it via their app on my Apple TV 4K. It's the same app as the AT&T TV app, but without certain channels or the cloud DVR feature. Anyhow, very impressed with how good live TV looks. Definitely better than DirecTV satellite. And on-demand content looks even slightly better.


So really how much do the pay you for all of your ATT TV posts across the various forums?


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

xxsj said:


> DirecTV doesn't have every channel I want. Plus, I also value the open platform for CableCARD technology, I use it with PLEX, I use it with TiVo. My recordings are mine, forever.
> 
> I'm hopeful about T-Mobile's new TV service&#8230;


Curious what channel are you missing


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

compnurd said:


> So really how much do the pay you for all of your ATT TV posts across the various forums?


I got paid with a whole free 7-day trial of Watch TV!!!


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

xxsj said:


> DirecTV doesn't have every channel I want. Plus, I also value the open platform for CableCARD technology, I use it with PLEX, I use it with TiVo. My recordings are mine, forever.


Like... what? Comcast has one of the worst HD lineups in the industry.



NashGuy said:


> You really should check out the HD picture quality from AT&T's OTT services. This week I'm taking a free trial of AT&T Watch TV (along with all the premiums it offers) and accessing it via their app on my Apple TV 4K. It's the same app as the AT&T TV app, but without certain channels or the cloud DVR feature. Anyhow, very impressed with how good live TV looks. Definitely better than DirecTV satellite. And on-demand content looks even slightly better.


That's good to hear that it's improving. Previously it was 6 of one, half a dozen of the other with DirecTV. Their streaming services in general, however, are pretty awful from a pricing and UX perspective.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Bigg said:


> Like... what? Comcast has one of the worst HD lineups in the industry.
> 
> That's good to hear that it's improving. Previously it was 6 of one, half a dozen of the other with DirecTV. Their streaming services in general, however, are pretty awful from a pricing and UX perspective.


Pricing isn't too competitive right now. UX has been good with Watch TV for me this week. Still an occasionally small bug in the app, like the highlighted row in the grid guide occasionally being blank until you scroll away and back to it. And I did once have a situation when channel surfing (which has been very quick) where channels just stopped loading. A quick exit and re-entry of the app fixed that. So there's still some little things but it's generally been pretty smooth.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

Back on the 4K topic. Watching 4K football this evening courtesy of FS1 on my bolt


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## SteveD (Oct 22, 2002)

compnurd said:


> Back on the 4K topic. Watching 4K football this evening courtesy of FS1 on my bolt


I had nothing in my guide for this weekend. I guess I should just keep checking the channel.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

**** Red said:


> I had nothing in my guide for this weekend. I guess I should just keep checking the channel.


My cable company isn't updating there guide for these broadcasts. Not sure why not


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

NashGuy said:


> I got paid with a whole free 7-day trial of Watch TV!!!


I get watch tv as part of my cell phone package. Missing sports channels...


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Eagles/Packers game will be on 1498 on 9/26. Starts at 8:20.


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## Salacious Crumb (Jan 1, 2019)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Eagles/Packers game will be on 1498 on 9/26. Starts at 8:20.


Thats the 1st fox tnf game -- wonder if theyll do the entire yr.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

Salacious Crumb said:


> Thats the 1st fox tnf game -- wonder if theyll do the entire yr.


Seems like anyone doing the first is doing them all


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

This is more of a massive wow from my cable company Armstrong but I am getting the Iowa game in HLG HDR coming of out of my Bolt Big Kudos for the HDR aspect


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

compnurd said:


> This is more of a massive wow from my cable company Armstrong but I am getting the Iowa game in HLG HDR coming of out of my Bolt Big Kudos for the HDR aspect


How does it look? Helluva delay on that game.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> How does it look? Helluva delay on that game.


How all sports should look lol


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

compnurd said:


> This is more of a massive wow from my cable company Armstrong but I am getting the Iowa game in HLG HDR coming of out of my Bolt Big Kudos for the HDR aspect


It appears you'll also have the ALCS!


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

WVZR1 said:


> It appears you'll also have the ALCS!


And Thursday night Football!


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Superbowl will be recorded in 4k/upscaled 1080p.

*Hopefully* this feed is passed on to the UHD channel.

https://www.tvtechnology.com/news/fox-sports-to-broadcast-super-bowl-liv-in-uhd


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## winter (Jan 28, 2002)

Reviving this thread rather than starting a new one. Have a seasons pass for "NFL" and Thursday night football on VZ FIOS last night taped off 4k channel 1498 instead of the more normal HD station

Enjoyed the 4k picture but I did not enjoy that each 30 second skip caused the screen to go black for several seconds before the picture returned, same problem with "jump back" button.

Since I use the skip button a lot while watching football, this inconvenience outweighed the 4k benefit. I didn't see anyone else mention this issue so I was wondering if that is some artifact of my setup versus my Bolt. Never had this problem with non-4k input before

Setup is Tivo Bolt > Denon AVR-S910W (4k capable receiver) > Samsung 4k TV (Q70T)


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I remember people complaining about that issue with the Edge. But I have not run into it with my Bolt on FiOS.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

winter said:


> Reviving this thread rather than starting a new one. Have a seasons pass for "NFL" and Thursday night football on VZ FIOS last night taped off 4k channel 1498 instead of the more normal HD station
> 
> Enjoyed the 4k picture but I did not enjoy that each 30 second skip caused the screen to go black for several seconds before the picture returned, same problem with "jump back" button.
> 
> ...


I DO have this problem problem, which is why I don't really want to watch 4K on my TiVo. It blacks out when skipping. When FF'ing, it blacks out, then shows FF, then blacks out for a second when set to play. VERY annoying.

What we DO have in common:
1)TiVo Bolt
2)Verizon Fios
3)Samsung 4K TV


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

aaronwt said:


> I remember people complaining about that issue with the Edge. But I have not run into it with my Bolt on FiOS.


So, if it does not happen on your Bolt with Fios, maybe it is the Samsung 4K TV. Unfortunately I only have one 4K TV, so I can't try another.


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## winter (Jan 28, 2002)

pl1 said:


> I DO have this problem problem, which is why I don't really want to watch 4K on my TiVo. It blacks out when skipping. When FF'ing, it blacks out, then shows FF, then blacks out for a second when set to play. VERY annoying.
> 
> What we DO have in common:
> 1)TiVo Bolt
> ...


Thanks for the reply, its good to know that you have the same problem without a Denon receiver so that's one less thing I need to focus on as the source of the problem.

I just played around with different Video Resolution options within Tivo itself and nothing I tried made any difference with respect to this issue.

The black screen that is displayed with a white "comet" moving in a circle is clearly coming from the Samsung itself. I can only speculate that the Samsung is losing HDMI and has to resync each time.

Also noticed the same problem if ,when while watching a 4k show, I press the Tivo button to bring up Tivo Central. I see the Tivo Central screen for a split second, then the Samsung black screen appears with the "working on it" white comet circular animation and then Tivo Central comes back.

Seems like any time there is a transition from a pass-thru 4k source to something in 4K that the Tivo is generating itself causes the glitch. However Tivo is able to overlay onto the 4k video without an issue, e.g. pause/play (which overlays the Tivo bar at the bottom) does not reproduce the issue.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

pl1 said:


> I DO have this problem problem, which is why I don't really want to watch 4K on my TiVo. It blacks out when skipping. When FF'ing, it blacks out, then shows FF, then blacks out for a second when set to play. VERY annoying.
> 
> What we DO have in common:
> 1)TiVo Bolt
> ...


That is interesting. I've used my Bolts with Sony, TCL, and Hisense UHD TVs without ever running into that issue.

Sent from my Tab A7 Gray


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## Stop the Crashes (May 24, 2010)

winter said:


> Seems like any time there is a transition from a pass-thru 4k source to something in 4K that the Tivo is generating itself causes the glitch. However Tivo is able to overlay onto the 4k video without an issue, e.g. pause/play (which overlays the Tivo bar at the bottom) does not reproduce the issue.


That's mostly consistent with my experience, except that the TiVo overlay changes color and brightness depending on the TiVo function being used. I've started a new thread on this. Bolt Problems with 4K QAM Signal, although as has been pointed out, a better title might turn out to be Bolt Problems with 4K QAM Signal sent to Samsung TV.


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