# For people who want to keep Tivo and directv



## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

I've been coming here the past few years as a Tivo lover who also wants to keep Directv(been a customer since 95).
It's getting harder to find a thread for people like me even though this page is supposed to be about DirectvHD Tivos. 
Is it possible to have a thread about any information, news, ideas about HDdirectTivos in the future? Since Directv said a few months ago that they are exploring ways to improve their relationship with Tivo and John Malone will be taking over control by the end of the year this seems a reasonable possibility. 
Since this is a Tivo forum is this too much to ask?


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## bsnelson (Oct 30, 1999)

No, it's not too much to ask. There's a 600+ post thread about that very topic here. 

Brad


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

That 600+ thread is mostly about the HR20 and the various ways that people are moving to it.
There are a lot of threads for people who don't mind giving up Tivo for the HR20.
This whole page is supposedly called "DirecTV HDTY Tivo's". Can't we have one thread that's just about that?


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

Cudahy said:


> That 600+ thread is mostly about the HR20 and the various ways that people are moving to it.
> There are a lot of threads for people who don't mind giving up Tivo for the HR20.
> This whole page is supposedly called "DirecTV HDTY Tivo's". Can't we have one thread that's just about that?


I agree with you. It would be nice to just keep in touch about Tivo and DirecTV without having the HR20 army over here.


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## joed32 (Jul 9, 2005)

Why can't there be a thread that is Tivo only? Is it against the rules or just unenforceable?


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

> this page is supposed to be about DirectvHD Tivos.


Not anymore


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

JohnB1000 said:


> Not anymore


Then they need to be honest about it and change the name of the forum.

That move is stupid and indefensible. There is no other forum here that discusses completely disparate platforms. Not even DBStalk puts TiVo and HR20 discussion in the same forum. It smacks of a desperate attempt to hang on to traffic that is no longer a part of their demographic.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Cudahy said:


> I've been coming here the past few years as a Tivo lover who also wants to keep Directv(been a customer since 95).
> It's getting harder to find a thread for people like me even though this page is supposed to be about DirectvHD Tivos.
> Is it possible to have a thread about any information, news, ideas about HDdirectTivos in the future? Since Directv said a few months ago that they are exploring ways to improve their relationship with Tivo and John Malone will be taking over control by the end of the year this seems a reasonable possibility.
> Since this is a Tivo forum is this too much to ask?


What would be the point in a thread where hundreds of people post that they know nothing about any future plans for an HD DirecTivo?


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

...and what would be the point for someone to come along and post what you just posted in a thread called "For people who want to keep Tivo and directv"?


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## doncoolio (Jul 9, 2006)

fasTLane said:


> ...and what would be the point for someone to come along and post what you just posted in a thread called "For people who want to keep Tivo and directv"?


....Reality?


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## badmonkey (Apr 8, 2003)

Are *here even any rumblings abou* a new HD Direc*iVo? I* seems *o me *ha* all of *he people in any posi*ion *o provide *his *ype of informa*ion have said *ha* i* is no* happening. A* leas* no* any *ime in *he near fu*ure. I* seems *o me *ha* *he *hread would be filled only wi*h people s*a*ing *heir wish/hope for a new *iVo powered Direc*V HD DVR. Which is OK, bu* doesn'* really yield any good informa*ion.

*ha* said, I, for one, would love *o see *hem crea*e a new HD Direc*iVo. I'm *hrilled wi*h my HR20 and, unless *here is a compelling reason, would likely no* swi*ch back *o a *iVo powered Direc*V HD DVR (IMO, I found *he *iVo in*erface *oo car*oony and unresponsive - especially in comparison *o *he HR20) bu* compe*i*ion is always good.


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## madbeachcat (Jan 31, 2002)

*he upgrade hasn'* gone *o well so far I see.


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

Why are people who are not interested in keeping Tivo with Directv posting on this thread? If they really thought there is no chance of this happening they would ignore it. I suppose this a hopeful sign. 
After the official statement about Directv trying to reach a new agreement with Tivo it's just been a matter of waiting for Malone to take over to see if anything would happen. It was supposed to happen in August; we're still waiting.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Cudahy said:


> Why are people who are not interested in keeping Tivo with Directv posting on this thread?


You misunderstand us. We all love Tivo. We would love to have an HD DirecTivo that does mpeg4. If it does happen someday, it will be in 2009 or later. It is too late for it to happen in 2008 already.

In the last 3 months Directv signed up more new customers than they ever have before. They have no incentive to go back to Tivo and support two completely different HD DVR's at the same time. It would double their DVR costs but not increase their revenues significantly. You need to come to grips with reality. It is a waste of time sitting around waiting for the phone to ring.


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## cramer (Aug 14, 2000)

HiDefGator said:


> They have no incentive to go back to Tivo and support two completely different HD DVR's at the same time.


Small correction... DTV has never "supported" the DTivo. They pay Tivo, Inc. to support the thing. Many of us would gladly pay Tivo, Inc. for a "S3 Dtivo". DTV will never (under current management) allow that because then people would be giving money to someone who isn't DTV; they already don't want to pay the $1 per (tivo) DVR subscriber or pay them to license anything.

Will there be any more DTivo's? Not likely unless there are some serious changes at DTV. Or the FCC reverses it's decision allowing DBS providers to monopolize their receivers.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

cramer said:


> Small correction... DTV has never "supported" the DTivo. They pay Tivo, Inc. to support the thing.


Every time I had a technical problem with a DTivo I called Directv tech support. It was their support staff that had to be trained on how to support the Dtivo.

When Tivo produced new software for the DTivo, Directv had to test it and download it to their boxes. That work was done by their staff.

I know "support" is loaded word and I certainly understand your interpretation of it as well but I stand by my statement.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

HiDefGator said:


> Every time I had a technical problem with a DTivo I called Directv tech support. It was their support staff that had to be trained on how to support the Dtivo.
> 
> When Tivo produced new software for the DTivo, Directv had to test it and download it to their boxes. That work was done by their staff.
> 
> I know "support" is loaded word and I certainly understand your interpretation of it as well but I stand by my statement.


D* = hardware swap outs, hartdware trouble shooting, etc, total training = unplug, replug and follow a script, if not working will send refurb, same with all their equipment

Tivo = software development, QnA is probably a joint effort, Tivo ultimately responsible for modifications/failure of the software


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

HiDefGator said:


> You misunderstand us. We all love Tivo. We would love to have an HD DirecTivo that does mpeg4. If it does happen someday, it will be in 2009 or later. It is too late for it to happen in 2008 already.
> 
> In the last 3 months Directv signed up more new customers than they ever have before. They have no incentive to go back to Tivo and support two completely different HD DVR's at the same time. It would double their DVR costs but not increase their revenues significantly. You need to come to grips with reality. It is a waste of time sitting around waiting for the phone to ring.


You know, a lot of what you're saying is pure speculation. There is already a support mechanism in place for both boxes. How do you know that they wouldn't get more revenue by having 2 boxes? Look at how many new customers they picked up from all of us who love the Tivo. There is nothing to say that wouldn't continue. Until Malone says something to the contrary, I think there is still hope for those of us wanting a new DTivo product.


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## robnalex (Sep 8, 2002)

RS4 said:


> I think there is still hope for those of us wanting a new DTivo product.


I was an early adopter of the HR10 and shortly thereafter got a 2nd one. I have gotten more enjoyment from my HR10s than any electronic toy I've ever owned, not because of the TiVo software (though I do love TiVo), but because I could time-shift HD. Before there was a DTV HD DVR I had a DTV Sony HD-100 HD receiver and a DirecTiVo Sony SAT-T60 SD DVR. Until the HR10 came along I almost never watched live HD programming because I couldn't time-shift it.

At this point in time, being married to TiVo and hoping DTV will someday provide a MPEG4 TiVo DVR that will put out all the channels is like being married to a woman who used to put out great sex but who is gradually losing interest.

Last month I added 2 HR20s (which have thus far performed flawlessly) to my system and retired one of my HR10s. I still have 1 HR10 hooked up, which is a nice luxury, but its days are numbered.

If, at some point in the future, DTV offers a new HD TiVo DVR I might consider getting one, but if the HR20s are still performing well and doing what I need, I might not want to bother. Sort of like the ex-wife coming back years later proclaiming that she's rediscovered the joy of sex- it might just be too little too late, Baby.

And I think DTV knows this and that the vast number of its new HD DVR subscribers have never experienced TiVo. By the time they would be able to offer a new HD TiVo DVR most people's response (including some like me who love TiVo) will likely be: "Who cares? What I have now works just fine."


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## michael1248 (Feb 14, 2002)

If I (very reluctantly!!!) call DirecTV and try to obtain a good deal on a HR20, but still want to keep my TiVo, would I still get the (MPEG 2) HD channels on my TiVo as well as on my DirecTV DVR, without paying double?


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

michael1248 said:


> If I (very reluctantly!!!) call DirecTV and try to obtain a good deal on a HR20, but still want to keep my TiVo, would I still get the (MPEG 2) HD channels on my TiVo as well as on my DirecTV DVR, without paying double?


You will get the MPEG 2 as long as they are broadcast, however the channels being moved to the new HD tier will no longer be available to you unless of course you pay the additional money. Thats my understanding at least. Now if you dont get an HR20 you will continue to recieve the channels you get now until the MPEG2 conversion is complete and the signal is shut off.


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

The several million directv customers that have a regular Tivo may factor in to Malones' decision. They could lose a couple hundred thousand customers over time there in addition to the HDTivo customers that continue to switch rather than give up Tivo.
It may only be a few hundred thousand customers but why give those up?


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Cudahy said:


> It may only be a few hundred thousand customers but why give those up?


Because you reach a point of diminishing returns.

At what $$ point does doing what it takes to keep those customers, outweight the cost of loosing them else where.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Cudahy said:


> The several million directv customers that have a regular Tivo may factor in to Malones' decision. They could lose a couple hundred thousand customers over time there in addition to the HDTivo customers that continue to switch rather than give up Tivo.
> It may only be a few hundred thousand customers but why give those up?


You also have to keep in mind that 99.9% of the DTivo's that are still active are SD units. So many of those, like me, already have HR20's in additon to the SD DTivo I still have active. If and when they decide to switch to HD many will stay with their current provider that is offering 100+ HD channels. The idea that Directv will experience mass subscriber loss by not having Tivo is a fantasy.


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

In addition, they added a net 240,000 customers last quarter, which implied that many more are coming rather than going. I seriously doubt that if 50,000 TiVo users leave a month, that it would even be noticed. So they would net 190,000 new subscriptions at an average subscription rate of 78 dollars a month. Yes 18.7 million is a lot of money but so is 14.8 million, and thats additional revenue each quarter. So it doesnt make sense that they will spend extraorbanant amounts to keep people, they did that for 6 months. Eventually, as Earl says, it will come to a point where the amount of people left will not impact the bottom line and they will be left out, or at least a decision will have to be made whether or not the product they are selling is more important than the device used to receive it.


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

Cudahy said:


> The *several million directv customers that have a regular Tivo *may factor in to Malones' decision. They could lose a couple hundred thousand customers over time there in addition to the HDTivo customers that continue to switch rather than give up Tivo.
> It may only be a few hundred thousand customers but why give those up?


Can you share your source is for this data?

TiVo is saying that the real number is a fraction of this. It never was several million. It is not even a few million. It is barely a couple million...

TiVo's last report shows that they still had 2.48 million DIRECTiVo subscribers but losing over 100,000 a quarter. And the rate of loss is accelerating.

We will not begin to see the effects from the new HD channels until the March 2008 10-Q.

DIRECTV reported installing over 1,032,000 new subscribers in the last quarter in addition to upgrades and add-ons.

A third early morning installation time was added as well as three Sunday installation times. Still, installers are saying they are swamped.

A straight-line regression shows that there will be 1.5 million DIRECTiVo subscribers left when the current DIRECT-TiVo contract ends 1/1/2010. But the geometric projection could put it under a half million left.

The bottom line is that DIRECTV does not really have the capacity to add customers much faster than they are.

Here is more detail.

- Craig


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

milominderbinder said:


> Can you share your source is for this data?
> 
> TiVo is saying that the real number is a fraction of this. It never was several million. It is not even a few million. It is barely a couple million...
> 
> ...


If they have gross adds of 1,032,000 and net adds of 240,000, that says to me they are losing 800,000 in the quarter. I can't imagine they're too excited about losing that many folks.

With all of the HD advertising, you would assume they would be adding more. This is the time the numbers should be the highest.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

RS4 said:


> If they have gross adds of 1,032,000 and net adds of 240,000, that says to me they are losing 800,000 in the quarter. I can't imagine they're too excited about losing that many folks.


FYI that this is entirely normal. You'll find similar numbers each quarter for Dish and Comcast and Time Warner as well. Net adds of 240K with the low churn they have is fantastic. In other words things are very good and everyone is very excited by this.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

I think you are confusing (or your reponse was unclear) CUSTOMER SUPPORT with hardware updates and design. D* is/was the only point of contact for CUSTOMERS (subscribers) for any DirecTiVo support. If you called TiVo they would refer you to D*.


cramer said:


> Small correction... DTV has never "supported" the DTivo. They pay Tivo, Inc. to support the thing.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

nrc said:


> ...That move is stupid and indefensible. There is no other forum here that discusses completely disparate platforms. Not even DBStalk puts TiVo and HR20 discussion in the same forum...


 I see your point, but I don't support it. My opinion is that the position is very smart rather than stupid, and completely defensible. I have ranted on and off forever that keeping the HR2x platform out of discussions here was a bonehead move, and kudos to Mike Lang and the TC for having both the introspection to realize the validity of that argument, and the balls to reverse course.

I don't like the "army" any more than the rest of us, but the plain and simple fact is that like it or not (and I most-assuredly DO NOT like it) the HR2x platform is the successor to the HR10 which has an obviously-short shelf life, and in the world of DTV those are the only platforms that are available. Having a place to discuss the pros and cons of making a move from one to the other is a no-brainer, as this is the dilemma that all of us face, and is the first option to be considered before moving to a different vendor altogether.

I love the idea of a HR10-only forum, but it's a pipe dream. In the reality of DTV, that boat sailed about a year ago. The good news is that even if the "army" dominates some of these threads, its easy to skip over or ignore responses that don't suit you. Those responses keep your threads alive, BTW.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

milominderbinder said:


> ...
> 
> The bottom line is that DIRECTV does not really have the capacity to add customers much faster than they are...


Craig, no offense but that sounds more like speculation rather than the bottom line, and isn't supported by any of the data.

We may have conflicting reports about the numbers, but what is undeniable is that the HR2x (and SD platform) numbers will grow while the HR10 numbers (and SD DirecTivo platform) numbers will sink. That is not a knock on the HR10 nor validation for the HR2x, just the reality of the outcome of DTV's decision to push Tivo out.

At some point there will be a perception by DTV that they can stand to lose those still hanging on to Tivo that won't be converted, and they will stop supporting it altogether. At that point it probably will be a doorstop, not even able to receive data to keep OTA alive, effectively boat-anchoring it onto the dustbin of history. A sad day, but one most of us will live to see.

That's the way things are looking. There is hope, but it's the bottom of the 9th with two outs and nobody on. The hope is that Malone has the wisdom to investigate Tivo as a niche platform, and makes a deal to support it. It could happen. I think Tivo on cable or Tivo on the Macintosh platform is actually more likely. There is certainly no guarantee that we will have a Tivo HD platform at all for DBS (or for cable, for most) after 2010 or anything resembling it, a bleak, and very grim prospect, but the odds-on favorite to be the the actual future we are relegated to.

We can bicker about the numbers or whine about our fate all we want, but it will not make one bit of difference, so we're doing nothing but wasting our time doing that. If any of you refuse to go gently into that dark night, then I suggest making your feelings known to Malone, DTV, and Tivo. Enough pressure could actually mold Malone's perception of the value of continuing with Tivo. That's about the only positive effect we have power over, and if we don't do that in numbers large enough not to ignore, we don't even have that. That, is the bottom line.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

TyroneShoes said:


> Having a place to discuss the pros and cons of making a move from one to the other is a no-brainer, as this is the dilemma that all of us face, and is the first option to be considered before moving to a different vendor altogether.


The trouble is that the announcement doesn't say that it's ok to discuss DirecTV DVRs in regard to the decision to make the move. It says that it's ok to discuss other DTV DVRs without reservation.

How does that work? When the last HR10 thread dies (probably because it was choked out by discussion of other DVRs) does this become a DirecTV DVR enclave within a "TiVo Community?"

Maybe we should just start encoraging the HR10 owners to post in the DBStalk HR10 forum where they have a forum of their own.


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

nrc said:


> Maybe we should just start encoraging the HR10 owners to post in the DBStalk HR10 forum where they have a forum of their own.


Well why wouldnt they be posting there? Seems like it would make sense.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

jimb726 said:


> Well why wouldnt they be posting there? Seems like it would make sense.


I didn't say they shouldn't. But under the current "all DTV DVRs" policy of this forum the HR10 traffic may get drowned out and they'll be better off in a forum dedicated to the HR10.


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

nrc said:


> I didn't say they shouldn't. But under the current "all DTV DVRs" policy of this forum the HR10 traffic may get drowned out and they'll be better off in a forum dedicated to the HR10.


'Splains that.


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

RS4 said:


> If they have gross adds of 1,032,000 and net adds of 240,000, that says to me they are losing 800,000 in the quarter. I can't imagine they're too excited about losing that many folks.
> 
> With all of the HD advertising, you would assume they would be adding more. This is the time the numbers should be the highest.


In July, DIRECTV advertising dropped dramatically. From August 1st until October 14th, DIRECTV had all but turned off advertising.

We talked about that in a number of threads. It was very limited marketing in targeted DMA's primarily in their own local affiliate slots. If you had Comcast, you would have seen almost no DIRECTV ads (but a lot of Comcast ads). And those were the same old generic Alien spoofs.

This freed up a tremendous number of local affiliate slots for sale increasing their ARPU.

Sunday, October 14th marked the first ads Pumping out over 70 ND Channels.

So during the third quarter, there were no ads at all for the new HD channels. And there were only limited showings of the old ads. Gross adds in the third quarter were primarily word-of-mouth.

We will begin to see the effects of the Pumping Out 70 Channels campaign in the Q4 numbers.

As to Churn, it is the bane of the telecom, satellite, and cable worlds. It hovers remarkably near 1-2% lost customer a month in all of these sectors. Check out 10-Q's from Cingular, Sprint, Dish, DIRECTV, etc. Here is a comparison. Note some data is years old at this point.

HD DVR installations have twice the cables, are more likely to need switches, and have more complicated dish installations. So although they have added the new 6 AM appointment slot and more installers, they can still barely do a million new adds a quarter.

This leaves only retention or Churn as it is known in the cable industry. How do you get Churn down?

One key change that has had very positive results for the cell providers was going to 1 year, then 18 months, and now 24 month and even 36 month contracts in some markets.

They learned the hard way that the "try before you buy" market has the worst one-year and five -year retention rates. DIRECTV attributes it's reduction in churn to better credit screening, better programming content, and longer contract terms.

- Craig


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

TyroneShoes said:


> Craig, no offense but that sounds more like speculation rather than the bottom line, and isn't supported by any of the data...


I noted the subjective basis for this as the posts from installers.

Installers are posting that they are now running seven-twelves if they can endure it. First rolls are at 6 AM and often still working into the evenings. If they can survive it, they can take installs up to seven days a week in many markets.

Remember the installer posts from 18 months ago when installers were talking about what they were doing on the side with the down time to make ends meet?

Another subjective source is posts of install lead-times. Last spring few waited even a week. Some users today can still find a cancellation created opening in less than a week. More realistically, they are waiting two, three, or four weeks depending on market.

The challenge for DIRECTV is to keep the advertising down so that they can keep the growth at a sustainable pace. Last fall it got away from them and they had people on wait lists for 8 to 10 weeks and longer.

One other huge decision is to go back to a limited number of self installs:

DIRECTV Q3 2007 Earnings Conference Call Transcript 
_...move more towards drop shipping a box to a home that is already set up for the upgrade and not require a truck roll..._

That will free them up to have more truck rolls available for new installs. I hope they roll that out slowly. Last winter's Site Survey showed that self-install greatly increased crib death. We read post after post of multiple "bad" units until DIRECTV actually came out and did their own install. Then the user coincidentally finally got a "good" unit.

- Craig


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

I think everyone is in agreement that if Malone has no interest in allowing a TivoHD option we will all have to choose between giving up Tivo or going to cable. Some posters think that Directv losing a few hundred thousand to cable means nothing. Malone might not feel that way. He may be more interested in maximizing both profit and number of subscribers.
A 2 or 3 dollar extra fee for Tivo subscribers would more than make up for the investment.
Until he takes over it's pure specuation either way. 
I'm not asking for a forum or even a page, just a thread for Directv subscribers who want to keep their Tivo.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

milominderbinder said:


> In July, DIRECTV advertising dropped dramatically. From August 1st until October 14th, DIRECTV had all but turned off advertising.
> 
> We talked about that in a number of threads. It was very limited marketing in targeted DMA's primarily in their own local affiliate slots. If you had Comcast, you would have seen almost no DIRECTV ads (but a lot of Comcast ads). And those were the same old generic Alien spoofs.
> 
> ...


Well, we know you're in the marketing side of D*, so you should know.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Cudahy said:


> A 2 or 3 dollar extra fee for Tivo subscribers would more than make up for the investment.


I doubt the accountants would agree with you.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

When a door closes, somewhere a window opens.

Time to start a new thread? 



> EchoStar will continue to pursue its appeal of the patent-infringement judgment that TiVo won http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6470703.html against it, according to Ergen.
> 
> "We believe we're right, and we don't believe we infringed," Ergen said. "Win or lose [the appeal] we plan to have conversation with TiVo about how we can work together."


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## ArcticGabe (Dec 27, 2001)

For me I can't decide what is worse: staying with D* and losing my Tivo, or signing up with the dreaded Comcast and buying a Series 3 HD.

I am still ultimately jealous of all of the OTA and cable Tivo owners and all of the great features that they have on their units that us D* customers are only left to drool over (i.e. Tivo-to-go, internet TV downloads, etc.) 

THIS is why I still hold on some faint glimmer of hope that D* will come to it's senses and offer a *FULLY-FEATURED* HD Tivo. Else, it's like TyroneShoes says, "... a dark night ..." for a future.


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

ArcticGabe said:


> For me I can't decide what is worse: staying with D* and losing my Tivo, or signing up with the dreaded Comcast and buying a Series 3 HD.
> 
> I am still ultimately jealous of all of the OTA and cable Tivo owners and all of the great features that they have on their units that us D* customers are only left to drool over (i.e. Tivo-to-go, internet TV downloads, etc.)
> 
> THIS is why I still hold on some faint glimmer of hope that D* will come to it's senses and offer a *FULLY-FEATURED* HD Tivo. Else, it's like TyroneShoes says, "... a dark night ..." for a future.


But even when they had one, it wasnt "Fully Feathered". They allowed some of the options but not everything. Also, I would not think that they would allow features on someone else's reciever that they cannot have on their own. Can anyone say DLB?


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## dslunceford (Oct 19, 2000)

ArcticGabe said:


> For me I can't decide what is worse: staying with D* and losing my Tivo, or signing up with the dreaded Comcast and buying a Series 3 HD.
> 
> I am still ultimately jealous of all of the OTA and cable Tivo owners and all of the great features that they have on their units that us D* customers are only left to drool over (i.e. Tivo-to-go, internet TV downloads, etc.)
> 
> THIS is why I still hold on some faint glimmer of hope that D* will come to it's senses and offer a *FULLY-FEATURED* HD Tivo. Else, it's like TyroneShoes says, "... a dark night ..." for a future.


I finally lost hope and when I couldn't get a decent deal on a DTV HD DVR. I decided to finally pull up stakes and move to FiOS. Bundling Internet, phone and TV together and adding $99 annual contracts on three stand-alones actually comes out cheaper (by a whopping $20 annually ) than my current outlay. I'm out of pocket $250 for a TiVo HD and that seemed worth it to me...especially when I have 6 DTiVo boxes, including an hr10-250, that I plan to ebay/craigslist to offset costs...


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

ArcticGabe said:


> For me I can't decide what is worse: staying with D* and losing my Tivo, or signing up with the dreaded Comcast and buying a Series 3 HD.
> 
> I am still ultimately jealous of all of the OTA and cable Tivo owners and all of the great features that they have on their units that us D* customers are only left to drool over (i.e. Tivo-to-go, internet TV downloads, etc.)
> 
> THIS is why I still hold on some faint glimmer of hope that D* will come to it's senses and offer a *FULLY-FEATURED* HD Tivo. Else, it's like TyroneShoes says, "... a dark night ..." for a future.


Might want to select the second option, the latest new release hardware (HR21) is still built on the HR20 code base


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## ArcticGabe (Dec 27, 2001)

dslunceford said:


> I finally lost hope and when I couldn't get a decent deal on a DTV HD DVR. I decided to finally pull up stakes and move to FiOS. ...


HA! FIOS! Yeah, there's something else I'm left wishing for. I can't get past AT&T's lowest speed DSL at my house (you know the story, too far from CO, blah, blah.)

Ya know, if D* offered me a "try it before you buy it" offer, I might consider giving it a go 'round. I've heard a lot of good and a lot of bad. I'd like the option of forming my own opinion about the HR20 before committing a year of my life to it.


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## fjwagner (Jan 22, 2006)

ArcticGabe said:


> I'd like the option of forming my own opinion about the HR20 before committing a year of my life to it.


try two years!


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

dslunceford said:


> I finally lost hope and when I couldn't get a decent deal on a DTV HD DVR. I decided to finally pull up stakes and move to FiOS. Bundling Internet, phone and TV together and adding $99 annual contracts on three stand-alones actually comes out cheaper (by a whopping $20 annually ) than my current outlay.


With just one DVR (never needed more) I'm saving $20 a month with my cable bundle and TiVo over what I was paying DTV. That was before the $5 "no price increase" price increase for HD.


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## BlueMonk (Oct 8, 2002)

Cudahy said:


> Why are people who are not interested in keeping Tivo with Directv posting on this thread?


Very good question.


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## 20TIL6 (Sep 7, 2006)

BlueMonk said:


> Very good question.


A possible answer:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=366754


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

BlueMonk said:


> Very good question.


It's the free country thing


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

20TIL6 said:


> A possible answer:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=366754


If you really believe what was written there then....... well I just don't know.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

I guess I shouldn't be positing here but I read the thread title and my first thought was that there had to be more than 4 peeps who want to stay with DTV and keep TIVO.


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## jmoak (Jun 20, 2000)

milominderbinder said:


> As to Churn, it is the bane of the telecom, satellite, and cable worlds. It hovers remarkably near 1-2% lost customer a month in all of these sectors.


At one time Directv marketed a hardware platform that, amongst it's users, had a consistent churn rate of less than 0.5%.

_Less than one half of one percent!_

One would have thought that that would have meant something to them.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

jmoak said:


> At one time Directv marketed a hardware platform that, amongst it's users, had a consistent churn rate of less than 0.5%.
> 
> _Less than one half of one percent!_
> 
> One would have thought that that would have meant something to them.


Users had pretty limited choices back then though didn't they? As I recall it was the only dual tuner integrated solution that recorded the digital stream without converting it to analog or using IR blasters. And users had to pay a nice chunk of change for the hardware. $1000 for an HR10 will keep you from dumping it a few months later. It is unfair to assume that the low churn was solely due to the Tivo software.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

So you got a turkey, eh! Must have been an HR20/21.  JUST JOKING, relax everyone !! 


jimb726 said:


> But even when they had one, it wasnt "*Fully Feathered". *They allowed some of the options but not everything. Also, I would not think that they would allow features on someone else's reciever that they cannot have on their own. Can anyone say DLB?


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

incog-neato said:


> So you got a turkey, eh! Must have been an HR20/21.  JUST JOKING, relax everyone !!


<Groan!!>


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## sulli2p (Jan 8, 2004)

Cudahy said:


> I think everyone is in agreement that if Malone has no interest in allowing a TivoHD option we will all have to choose between giving up Tivo or going to cable. Some posters think that Directv losing a few hundred thousand to cable means nothing. Malone might not feel that way. He may be more interested in maximizing both profit and number of subscribers.
> A 2 or 3 dollar extra fee for Tivo subscribers would more than make up for the investment.
> Until he takes over it's pure specuation either way.
> I'm not asking for a forum or even a page, just a thread for Directv subscribers who want to keep their Tivo.


Have not posted in TC for a long time. But my recent DTV experience seems to have driven me back to reading here, and speculating.... As a long time TiVo investor and customer I just tried to upgrade from SD to HD DTV and failed due to incompetent installers. In the process I have been going out and actually reading the user reviews of the HR boxes. It is clear that DTV install and support is out-of-control, and to compensate they are giving away free stuff like I have never seen before. With billions in new HD sats, this just can't continue.

I think there is a huge and growing cost to going a non-TiVo route from a support standpoint and also from a competitive standpoint, though short-term DTV's temporary HD channel lead has muted the marketing case. If Comcast's delayed TiVo turn-up starts to look good and TiVo finishes staking out their legal claims which DTV will need to face soon as their "free pass" expires, and DTV's support expenses continue to grow dramatically, as I believe they are, I think there is a very compelling case for a new TiVo HD box at DTV, and fast.


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