# The Flash 3/17/15 "Out of Time"



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Well, I guess it's fair to fake-kill somebody if you hit the reset button in the same episode.

So does the reset also erase the revelation of Harrison Wells as Dr. Evil?

Does it erase Barry and Iris?

It was a very eventful episode, up until the last minute. Now, I'm wondering if anything really happened, or at least will still have happened?


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## southernbills (Dec 14, 2002)

What an incredible episode. From the previews for next week, it looks like Barry has upset the space time continuum. But Wells seemed to know what was happening when he was at the coffee shop. Has he seen this version of the future before?


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## Michael S (Jan 12, 2004)

I'm guessing Barry went more then 88 MPH.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

I'm enjoying this series quote a bit. Even if it did the whole hackneyed "go off the rails but then do a time reset at the end" thing. Looks like the only permanent part of the episode will be that Barry now can add "go so fast I travel back in time" to his list of abilities. 

I liked seeing Liam McIntyre join the large list of Spartacus alumni who have been on Flash and/or Arrow.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

I really really liked this episode. I consider it one of the best hours of TV superhero time I've seen in a long time.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Hooooolllllllyyyyyokye, MA!

I didn't expect that.
I thought that the mirror image issue would be addressed in a future episode or was even portending an appearance by Sam Scudder.


Lots of reveals which I'm guessing are getting reset next episode.

But we have confirmed that Welles is Eobard Thawne and he did use the superspeed after image trick.


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

was definitely a fun episode!


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Awesome episode. But I too wish they hadn't hit the "reset button." I couldn't get a read on how far back he went though. Did he go all the way back to before his mom got killed?


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

Peter000 said:


> Awesome episode. But I too wish they hadn't hit the "reset button." I couldn't get a read on how far back he went though. Did he go all the way back to before his mom got killed?


He went back to the beginning of the episode. Back where he saw himself and stopped on the way to the Morgue and he saw his "reflection".

"Taxi! Oh, come on! I'm going to be late!"

--Carlos V.


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

danterner said:


> I'm enjoying this series quote a bit.


Ask and ye shall receive.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

scooterboy said:


> ask and ye shall receive.


Ha!


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Really great episode, I might watch it again today.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

I'm interested to see how they resolve the 'two Barry's in the same timeline' issue.

To my mind, if the later Barry changes something that stops earlier Barry from needing to run back and forth on the boardwalk, then later Barry shouldn't exist anymore (unless something else happens that facilitates his trek through time).

But based on the previews, why does either Barry have a memory of a timeline that ostensibly no longer exists?


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

I absolutely knew that a reset button was coming, I can't believe I didn't realize how it was going to happen though.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

My question is when Dr. Wells/Reverse Flash told Cisco "you have been dead to me for centuries" is in what time does Wells/RF live?


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

Awesome episode!! Given the downward slope of Arrow this is starting to be the better of the shows. Hoping Arrow works out the kinks


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

mwhip said:


> My question is when Dr. Wells/Reverse Flash told Cisco "you have been dead to me for centuries" is in what time does Wells/RF live?


The present, duh! He's been stranded here for 15 years.

Before that, apparently, centuries in the future.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

I don't understand why they even had Cisco build that "wizard's wand" if the characters were going to basically ignore it. As soon as it was built, I would have expected either Barry or Joe to carry it all times. Barry ended up using it once and then where was it while Joe was out hunting Martin, or when Barry and Iris went to try to get Joe back?

And once again Barry only loses because of extreme stupidity. After Barry saved Joe from the car attack, he just sat there instead of capturing Martin. And then he did it AGAIN right after he used the wand in the police station, he just stood there rather than capturing Martin. WTF?


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Get use to it, it's basically the only way Barry could ever possibly lose a fight.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

john4200 said:


> And once again Barry only loses because of extreme stupidity. After Barry saved Joe from the car attack, he just sat there instead of capturing Martin. And then he did it AGAIN right after he used the wand in the police station, he just stood there rather than capturing Martin. WTF?


Can't argue the first one, but for the police station attack, he wasn't just standing there, he ran the chief to the hospital.

Now that Barry can travel through time, he shouldn't lose any fight technically.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

morac said:


> Can't argue the first one, but for the police station attack, he wasn't just standing there, he ran the chief to the hospital.


Actually, he was just standing there for several seconds before he ran the chief to the hospital. Plenty of time to capture and secure Martin and then come back for the chief.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

These shots are for dramatic purposes, I've concluded.

Either that, or Barry is extremely UN-street smart, which is hard to believe, since he spent his entire childhood trying to avoid bullies.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

john4200 said:


> Actually, he was just standing there for several seconds before he ran the chief to the hospital. Plenty of time to capture and secure Martin and then come back for the chief.


Does Barry actually think super fast or just move super fast? He paused to decide what to do and he decided to run the chief to the hospital. Maybe he decided he didn't want to waste even a fraction of a second longer than needed to get the chief help.

His speed is inconsistent. We've been told he can barely break the sound barrier (768 mph), yet when we've seen him dodge bullets (average 1,700 mph), the bullets still move when "slowed" down to his speed, indicating he's moving at least Mach 2.

In this episode we see a bolt of lightning moving at the same speed "slowed" down bullets usually are. Lightning travels on average 224,000 mph -- or about 3,700 miles per second. If at his speed, bullets are still "moving", there's no way he should be able to dodge lightning. If he can dodge lightning than bullet movement shouldn't be visible.

He has been boosting his speed according to the show, but if he can move so fast that something traveling 224,000 mph is moving slowly, nothing should be able to touch him.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

Morac, excellent points, it has started to bug me about his speed inconsistencies, especially bad was the lightning scene, just not possible given his limitations shown prior.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

There is nothing that says he has to move at maximum speed all the time. He can go a range of speeds.

Dodging lightning would have, presumably, been out of his range, but he's upped his game. Adrenalin perhaps. Or, as has been suggested elsewhere, Barry can go as fast as he needs to go, based on his need of the moment. I don't know that he can actually control that speed, but he can GO that speed, clearly.

Going fast enough to break the time stream would put him superluminal. I would argue that his speed would require increased energy for increased speed, but they seem to be ignoring that. It would, however, be a viable explanation as to why he can outrun lightning, but when a bullet is fired towards him, he only goes fast enough to avoid the bullet, not fast enough that the bullet would be frozen in time.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

morac said:


> Does Barry actually think super fast or just move super fast? He paused to decide what to do and he decided to run the chief to the hospital. Maybe he decided he didn't want to waste even a fraction of a second longer than needed to get the chief help.
> 
> His speed is inconsistent. We've been told he can barely break the sound barrier (768 mph), yet when we've seen him dodge bullets (average 1,700 mph), the bullets still move when "slowed" down to his speed, indicating he's moving at least Mach 2.
> 
> ...


Logically, he has to be able to process information at least as fast as he can move. Imagine driving a car that can move at, say, 1000 mph, and turn and maneuver at that speed just as if it were a regular car, on regular streets. A normal person would never be able to drive it at that speed on anything but a straight highway, because we wouldn't be able to react quickly enough to make turns and avoid obstacles. Barry can; ergo, he processes information "at speed."

From what I can gather, his limitations aren't really on his powers, just on his ability to harness them. In the comics:



Spoiler



almost all speedsters are connected to something called the 'Speed Force' and their ability to tap into it at any given time is what regulates how fast they can move.



The fact that he moves more slowly depending on the stimulus is not problematic for me - he simply moves as fast as is required to accomplish a certain goal, and no faster.

He can technically exceed the speed of light, which is how he was able to travel through time. But he never "needed" to do so, until he needed to do so. In previous episodes, Cisco always gave him a particular speed that he needed to achieve - this time, Kaitlin never gave him a number. She more or less challenged him, but saying that "I don't think you can run that fast." So Barry was probably just running faster and faster since he didn't know what it would take.

</exposition>


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, I guess it's fair to fake-kill somebody if you hit the reset button in the same episode.
> 
> So does the reset also erase the revelation of Harrison Wells as Dr. Evil?
> 
> ...


I think that time-traveling Barry will still have his memory of the alternate timeline, so he will remember the kiss with Iris, but he did not know about Dr. Wevil, so I guess that was just for the viewers.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

Maybe this was shown on the preview, but will Barry bet back in time WITH the other Barry and able to influence events for him or will he replace himself in the timeline? I assume it is the former.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

classicX said:


> Logically, he has to be able to process information at least as fast as he can move. Imagine driving a car that can move at, say, 1000 mph, and turn and maneuver at that speed just as if it were a regular car, on regular streets. A normal person would never be able to drive it at that speed on anything but a straight highway, because we wouldn't be able to react quickly enough to make turns and avoid obstacles. Barry can; ergo, he processes information "at speed."


Being able to process information quickly doesn't necessarily mean being able to perform logical thinking quickly. He may just have lightning fast reflexes.

Though I just remembered that he's read books at super speed, so apparently he can do higher level thinking very fast as well. Since he's obviously not doing things at super speed all the time (he wouldn't be able to communicate with other if he was), maybe it takes a second or two to get up to speed.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

morac said:


> Being able to process information quickly doesn't necessarily mean being able to perform logical thinking quickly. He may just have lightning fast reflexes.
> 
> Though I just remembered that he's read books at super speed, so apparently he can do higher level thinking very fast as well. Since he's obviously not doing things at super speed all the time (he wouldn't be able to communicate with other if he was), maybe it takes a second or two to get up to speed.


He would have to be able to "think fast" just to be able to run from point to point at super speed (e.g. to decide what route to take and so on).

Of course we are way overthinking this.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

cmontyburns said:


> He would have to be able to "think fast" just to be able to run from point to point at super speed (e.g. to decide what route to take and so on).
> 
> Of course we are way overthinking this.


and doing it way too slowly


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

classicX said:


> I think that time-traveling Barry will still have his memory of the alternate timeline, so he will remember the kiss with Iris, but he did not know about Dr. Wevil, so I guess that was just for the viewers.


I suspect that the next episode will entail Barry trying to change certain events and finding out why he can't muck around with time too much (and thus won't be able to save his mother).

Not a full "Flashpoint" event but enough where he gets the message.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Something from this episode has me confused. When Cisco was studying the containment field, what did he discover? Why did the Reverse Flash reveal himself? It appeared he got the containment field working, then, all of a sudden, the RF was in the field. Then Dr. Wells appeared. I don't understand this scene at all?


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

I think it was showing that Dr. Wells had prerecorded the reverse flash to be a hollogram inside the containment field. 

The recording of reverse flash was the same as before.


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## GAViewer (Oct 18, 2007)

JYoung said:


> I suspect that the next episode will entail Barry trying to change certain events and finding out why he can't muck around with time too much (and thus won't be able to save his mother).
> 
> Not a full "Flashpoint" event but enough where he gets the message.


I am guessing that when the current Barry goes back and tries to save his mother, that he winds up having to save young Barry and therefore can't save his mother. The scene with his mother shows both yellow and red streaks and then young Barry is yanked away.


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## MikeCC (Jun 19, 2004)

vertigo235 said:


> I think it was showing that Dr. Wells had prerecorded the reverse flash to be a hollogram inside the containment field.
> 
> The recording of reverse flash was the same as before.


That's right.

If you rewatch that scene, note that the Reverse Flash's dialog seemed to show him talking with Wells. RF's dialog made him sound as if RF was responding to questions. Originally those questions and comments had been made by Wells, but without Wells there, it was clear that the image was previously recorded for Wells to pretend to interact with it.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Right, and RF didn't actually escape from the containment field, the hologram just stopped playing I guess, and Wells did his dual image trick, although I guess a much more advanced version that allowed him to change clothes and punch himself while doing it. hmm


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

That makes sense. I didn't catch it was a recording.


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## wtherrell (Dec 23, 2004)

OMG my containment field has collapsed! Must be the hypertron ionization.
So Why didn't Joe or someone take the Wizard Wand with them when they went hunting Mardon. What did I miss?


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

Philosofy said:


> That makes sense. I didn't catch it was a recording.


I didn't quite get that either. But this makes more sense.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

morac said:


> ...
> In this episode we see a bolt of lightning moving at the same speed "slowed" down bullets usually are. Lightning travels on average 224,000 mph -- or about 3,700 miles per second. If at his speed, bullets are still "moving", there's no way he should be able to dodge lightning. If he can dodge lightning than bullet movement shouldn't be visible.


Duh, it's supervillain lightning. Supervillain lightning is slower than regular lightning.

Seriously, he's outrun lightning before. The electrical villain that was after Wells shot electricity at him and Barry outran it. I guess if you can say that if a person can control the weather or shoot electricity, then maybe whatever mechanism is used isn't just a static discharge. Still, it's a valid point. Lightning would normally be too fast. TV lightning is more dramatic when it's slowed down.

As for bullets, they vary in speed, but some do travel about 800mph, more than slow enough for Barry to at least dodge them.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

It was a very fun episode. I do agree with some of the criticism. Again there was a villain surrounded by police with guns who somehow manages to not get hit with a bullet. And the wand... yeah, why leave the thing laying there? If I was Joe, I just would have casually walked up to it and picked it up. And why the heck did he leave without it again. One last bone to pick (at least, before the big one) is that there seems to be very little gray areas in the villains. They're all homicidal maniacs who don't seem to mind about committing mass murder. C'mon, at least give them _some_ standards.

Lots of cool action, and the reveal about Wells answers a lot of questions. But as soon as he killed Cisco, you just knew that it's going to be reversed somehow. From a story-telling aspect, that's lame when you're told "everything you just saw doesn't matter, as it'll have never happened." Dallas' dream sequence, all the substories of Flashpoint... what's the point? It'll be interesting though to see how it's resolved. Mainly, if Barry will retain the memory of everything up to that point. There's always the chance that he'll change history and then just become part of the new timeline, without ever knowing that Iris feels that way about him. My prediction though is that he'll do things to prevent stuff from happening (saving the captain from paralysis), knows how Iris feels about him, but without the pressure of Joe being near death, Iris' emotions won't be forced to the surface and Barry will wuss out and decide to hold back and wait for Iris to reach the point again naturally.

Oh, and kudos for giving the captain not just a boyfriend, but a fiancée. It's amazing that DC and Marvel and comics publishers have gay characters but Star Trek, whose entire purpose is to have a more enlightened society, is still gay-phobic.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

My brother clued me into something I haven't seen mentioned here yet: could we have just seen the origin of Vibe?


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

Philosofy said:


> My brother clued me into something I haven't seen mentioned here yet: could we have just seen the origin of Vibe?


Not unless Wells does that to Cisco again in the repeat timeline. (And we're not really sure what he did, except that it likely killed the kid... Or did it?)

I did hear somewhere that both Cisco and Kaitlin* get their powers eventually on the series. I just don't like what that might mean for her.

*We're spelling her name wrong. Both in the comics and at imdb.com it's "Caitlin".

- - -​
One thing that gets me about this episode is the fact that Barry's running barely fast enough to build up some type of concussive wave to push the ocean wave back, then suddenly he's passing the speed of light and time traveling? Kind of a big jump.

As for what happened to Barry in the time jump, since he ended up right at the very spot he'd been at earlier in the episode, seeing and hearing EXACTLY the same things, I think he somehow merged with his younger self. Why that didn't happen the first time, I dunno.

I hate it when time-travel is done by writers who don't think out the "mechanics". It ruins good scifi and turns it into a cartoon.

Yes, I know The Flash is a comic book character, but even the comic book version usually makes some sense.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

bobcarn said:


> Oh, and kudos for giving the captain not just a boyfriend, but a fiancée. It's amazing that DC and Marvel and comics publishers have gay characters but Star Trek, whose entire purpose is to have a more enlightened society, is still gay-phobic.


Have you read any of David Gerrolds post on that topic? Roddenberry promised him, personally, before TNG aired, that there would be gay characters. Then came back after talking to the suits and had to walk it back.

There were a couple of episodes that flirted with it. Crusher falling in love with a symbiote, who changed bodies and was now female; Riker with the people who weren't allowed to even have gender.

But you are right. No overt gay characters, though they did have a gay helmsman that they simply never acknowledged....


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

bobcarn said:


> Lots of cool action, and the reveal about Wells answers a lot of questions. But as soon as he killed Cisco, you just knew that it's going to be reversed somehow. From a story-telling aspect, that's lame when you're told "everything you just saw doesn't matter, as it'll have never happened." Dallas' dream sequence, all the substories of Flashpoint... what's the point? It'll be interesting though to see how it's resolved. Mainly, if Barry will retain the memory of everything up to that point. There's always the chance that he'll change history and then just become part of the new timeline, without ever knowing that Iris feels that way about him. My prediction though is that he'll do things to prevent stuff from happening (saving the captain from paralysis), knows how Iris feels about him, but without the pressure of Joe being near death, Iris' emotions won't be forced to the surface and Barry will wuss out and decide to hold back and wait for Iris to reach the point again naturally.


The one thing the scene with Wells and Cisco did is make them both more real as characters.

Wells/Thawne isn't just a muhahaha two dimensional homicidal kind of guy.
He does truly care about both Cisco and Caitlin.
It may not stop him from killing them but he does care.

And Cavanaugh played that scene superbly. I truly bought that he did have paternal feelings for Cisco and did regret that he had to kill him.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

Talk Soup had a funny clip about The Flash this week, when Barry is on the phone with Caitlin asking how does he stop it - to which McHale said "uh yeah Barry what's the only thing you can do? Run fast! Duh!"


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## alpacaboy (Oct 29, 2004)

pjenkins said:


> Talk Soup had a funny clip about The Flash this week, when Barry is on the phone with Caitlin asking how does he stop it - to which McHale said "uh yeah Barry what's the only thing you can do? Run fast! Duh!"


That(reading that post) made me literally LOL. Glad I wasn't drinking anything.


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

Ereth said:


> ...No overt gay characters, though they did have a gay helmsman that they simply never acknowledged....


Not sure who you mean, but Data, to the extent he could before emotion, liked girls. (He had a relationship with Tasha and kept a hologram statue of her after she died.)

Geordi liked girls, and there's evidence he ends up with Leah Brahms.

Wesley also liked girls.

Who was the helmsman you thought was gay?


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

gastrof said:


> Who was the helmsman you thought was gay?


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

danterner said:


>


True, but I don't think they ever portrayed him as gay, even in the movies.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

RGM1138 said:


> True, but I don't think they ever portrayed him as gay, even in the movies.


I was assuming that's what Ereth meant by saying it was "simply never acknowledged"


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

danterner said:


> I was assuming that's what Ereth meant by saying it was "simply never acknowledged"


We'd been talking about TNG, not TOS.

As for TOS, crazy Sulu from "The Naked Time" liked girls. (He certainly liked Uhura, and the "infection" released supressed feelings, so he obviously was straight.) His alternate in the Mirror universe also liked girls, and again had an interest in Uhura. (Hard to believe he'd be gay in one universe and straight in the other. And again, the evidence says "No" in both.)


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

Ereth said:


> Have you read any of David Gerrolds post on that topic? Roddenberry promised him, personally, before TNG aired, that there would be gay characters. Then came back after talking to the suits and had to walk it back.
> 
> There were a couple of episodes that flirted with it. Crusher falling in love with a symbiote, who changed bodies and was now female; Riker with the people who weren't allowed to even have gender.
> 
> But you are right. No overt gay characters, though they did have a gay helmsman that they simply never acknowledged....


I think they should make Sulu in the new movies gay, just as an homage to George Takei. 

The frustrating part of their homophobia (in the literal sense of the word) is that they made the conscious decision to never portray a gay character, and the suits went to great lengths to enforce. The episode with Riker falling in love with the androgynous girl? He wanted the part to be played by a man, but the networks refused. And the storyline ironically worked against gender and sexuality diversity. Here was a society where everyone was gender-neutral and would essentially be bisexual, and they were portrayed as the bad guys, while the _woman_ merely wanted to live as a female having a heterosexual relationship, with the tragedy being that she couldn't.

J.J. Abrams was made aware of the gay shunning (and was surprised when it was brought up to him), but I don't trust he cares enough about Star Trek to actually fix that aspect of it. Anyway.... back to the Flash.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

gastrof said:


> ...
> One thing that gets me about this episode is the fact that Barry's running barely fast enough to build up some type of concussive wave to push the ocean wave back, then suddenly he's passing the speed of light and time traveling? Kind of a big jump.


I thought about that, and my own internal explanation is that he's not surpassing the speed of light, he's just generating enough speed force and altering his vibrations enough that he can do the time-travel. Remember that he doesn't just move fast, he's generating a special form of energy (the yellow lightning being a sign of it) that bends the laws of physics around him. Even in the comics, he would use a treadmill at times to do the time travel. During those instances, he wasn't traveling faster than light, just generating a LOT of energy.

Hmmmm...... I wonder if the treadmill in the show will be enhanced to function the same way. I always wondered if it would be _the_ treadmill from first time it was introduced when Cisco made it for him.


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

bobcarn said:


> ...my own internal explanation is that he's not surpassing the speed of light, he's just generating enough speed force and altering his vibrations enough that he can do the time-travel. Remember that he doesn't just move fast, he's generating a special form of energy (the yellow lightning being a sign of it) that bends the laws of physics around him. Even in the comics, he would use a treadmill at times to do the time travel. During those instances, he wasn't traveling faster than light, just generating a LOT of energy.
> 
> Hmmmm...... I wonder if the treadmill in the show will be enhanced to function the same way. I always wondered if it would be _the_ treadmill from first time it was introduced when Cisco made it for him.


I think I like you.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

gastrof said:


> I think I like you.


LOL. I am such a geek to spend the time to think that through.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

gastrof said:


> We'd been talking about TNG, not TOS.


Bobcarn said "Star Trek", not any particular series.



> As for TOS, crazy Sulu from "The Naked Time" liked girls. (He certainly liked Uhura, and the "infection" released supressed feelings, so he obviously was straight.) His alternate in the Mirror universe also liked girls, and again had an interest in Uhura. (Hard to believe he'd be gay in one universe and straight in the other. And again, the evidence says "No" in both.)


And, yes, it was rather obviously a reference to the fact that the ACTOR was gay, because I specifically said, in the very post you quoted, that there were no overtly gay characters. Geez, get a clue.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Ereth said:


> And, yes, it was rather obviously a reference to the fact that the ACTOR was gay, because I specifically said, in the very post you quoted, that there were no overtly gay characters. Geez, get a clue.


To be fair, your wording was ambiguous..."gay helmsman who was never acknowledged" could very easily refer to a character who is not overtly gay, not to an actor...


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

Ereth said:


> And, yes, it was rather obviously a reference to the fact that the ACTOR was gay, because I specifically said, in the very post you quoted, that there were no overtly gay characters. Geez, get a clue.


Yes, you did say "no overtly gay characters."

Which doesn't mean 'no gay characters;' it means 'no out gay characters.' When you pair that with the following statement that there was an unacknowledged gay helmsman, I don't see any way to interpret that other than you suggesting there was a closeted gay character. The actor is the one that's gay; not the helmsman.

I'm with gastrof on this one.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Nah, it was quite clear that Ereth was simply winking at the fact that Takei is gay. He was not suggesting that Sulu was gay, because _Sulu wasn't gay_. It was just a warmhearted joke.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

Ah, if it was meant as a joke, then I retract my statement. I didn't see it as that on first reading, but on a second read, I can see how he meant it that way.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> To be fair, your wording was ambiguous..."gay helmsman who was never acknowledged" could very easily refer to a character who is not overtly gay, not to an actor...


I knew exactly what Ereth meant and got a chuckle out of it.

Besides, maybe the character himself really was gay, but it was repressed because of the advanced conversion therapy procedures the Federation mandates in the 24th century (one possible explanation for the absence of anything other than purely homogenized heterosexuals).


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

bobcarn said:


> I knew exactly what Ereth meant and got a chuckle out of it.


Oh, I knew what he meant. But irony doesn't always come across well to everybody, and it is not unreasonable for somebody to have taken his words at face value.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

bobcarn said:


> I thought about that, and my own internal explanation is that he's not surpassing the speed of light, he's just generating enough speed force and altering his vibrations enough that he can do the time-travel. Remember that he doesn't just move fast, he's generating a special form of energy (the yellow lightning being a sign of it) that bends the laws of physics around him. Even in the comics, he would use a treadmill at times to do the time travel. During those instances, he wasn't traveling faster than light, just generating a LOT of energy.
> 
> Hmmmm...... I wonder if the treadmill in the show will be enhanced to function the same way. I always wondered if it would be _the_ treadmill from first time it was introduced when Cisco made it for him.


IIRC, in the Silver Age comics, Barry's first time travel experience was an accident and was a result of him altering his vibrations while running.
He returned to his present time by "relaxing his vibrations" to normal (I assume).

He built the Cosmic Treadmill to give himself better control over his time travel (and his Universe hopping so he could easily jaunt over to Earth Two and visit Jay Garrick.)

He could do Time Travel without the treadmill but it was harder.
(Remember when he did it in the Blackest Night while towing Green Lantern Hal Jordan.)

As for the Gay Helmsman of the Enterprise, there are some that believe that  Lt. Hawk played by Neal McDonough was Gay although no canon reference to his sexuality has been seen.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

I think most of us are stuck in a "need to go faster than light to time travel" mentality. Hiro from Heroes didn't go faster than light. We need to think speed force, not just speed. (Although speed force hasn't been introduced in the show yet.)

I'm not sure if I've posted my theory yet, but I think Wells/Thawne is from the future, and tapped into the speed force there. He mastered it enough to travel back in time to kill Barry Allen as a child. But the problem when he got to the past is that there was no speed force. Barry wasn't the first to tap into the speed force, he actually CREATED it (or that nuclear accident created it.) Thawne realized he can't kill Barry, but adult Barry didn't realize that, so he travels back in time to save his mom, and brings the speed force with him. Wells/Thawne taps into it, and we get the speedster battle that kills Barry's mom.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Philosofy said:


> I think most of us are stuck in a "need to go faster than light to time travel" mentality. Hiro from Heroes didn't go faster than light. We need to think speed force, not just speed. (Although speed force hasn't been introduced in the show yet.)


I'm pretty sure it was explicitly mentioned a few episodes ago, in the episode "The Sound and the Fury," when Wells was talking with the AI about speed regulation problems he was having.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

I remember that Wally West had a mental issue with his speed in the comics that acted as a governor on him. He could go incredibly fast when pressed but not be able to summon it on command. The same approach could explain Barry's inconsistent speed limits. 

As for the identity of the Reverse Flash, I seem to remember being mocked on this point way back in the first episode.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> I remember that Wally West had a mental issue with his speed in the comics that acted as a governor on him. He could go incredibly fast when pressed but not be able to summon it on command. The same approach could explain Barry's inconsistent speed limits.
> 
> As for the identity of the Reverse Flash, I seem to remember being mocked on this point way back in the first episode.


Were you the one that said the Lightning transistion was a yellow mask on Dr. Wells?


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Oh, I knew what he meant. But irony doesn't always come across well to everybody, and it is not unreasonable for somebody to have taken his words at face value.


Fair enough. I withdraw the snark and apologize for it.

The "unacknowledged" was really a swipe at a comment that Takei himself made that everybody knew he was gay, and couldn't come out because that would ruin his career. Everybody on the cast, everybody on the crew. All except one guy who was so self-centered, he didn't notice, but who happened to be the star of the show.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

vertigo235 said:


> Were you the one that said the Lightning transistion was a yellow mask on Dr. Wells?


Yes. And I maintain it was. The lightening varies.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> Yes. And I maintain it was. The lightening varies.


Sorry, still disagree there. And I don't think anyone disagreed that he could be Reverse Flash, it was just the "yellow mask" thing...


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

JYoung said:


> ...
> As for the Gay Helmsman of the Enterprise, there are some that believe that  Lt. Hawk played by Neal McDonough was Gay although no canon reference to his sexuality has been seen.


It's not movie canon, but in the official novels that are written, he is. His surviving partner is part of Riker's crew on his ship.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

Philosofy said:


> I think most of us are stuck in a "need to go faster than light to time travel" mentality. Hiro from Heroes didn't go faster than light. We need to think speed force, not just speed. (Although speed force hasn't been introduced in the show yet.)


Exactly. Time travel by moving faster than light is actually not used very often in science fiction.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

Philosofy said:


> I think most of us are stuck in a "need to go faster than light to time travel" mentality. Hiro from Heroes didn't go faster than light. We need to think speed force, not just speed. (Although speed force hasn't been introduced in the show yet.)
> 
> I'm not sure if I've posted my theory yet, but I think Wells/Thawne is from the future, and tapped into the speed force there. He mastered it enough to travel back in time to kill Barry Allen as a child. But the problem when he got to the past is that there was no speed force. Barry wasn't the first to tap into the speed force, he actually CREATED it (or that nuclear accident created it.) Thawne realized he can't kill Barry, but adult Barry didn't realize that, so he travels back in time to save his mom, and brings the speed force with him. Wells/Thawne taps into it, and we get the speedster battle that kills Barry's mom.





danterner said:


> I'm pretty sure it was explicitly mentioned a few episodes ago, in the episode "The Sound and the Fury," when Wells was talking with the AI about speed regulation problems he was having.


Wells was speaking to Gideon and said something along the lines of "I can't maintain my connection to the speed force."

I don't know that Barry has to exceed the speed of light to travel through time, but I think it's safe to assume that he can at least approach the speed of light, given the lightning issue discussed here. Although I'm not sure how he was actually able to see the lightning... or anything, for that matter. 

Regarding the speed force, at least in the comics, it's a "fundamental" force, just like gravity, electromagnetism, etc., and Barry's accident connected him to it, giving him the ability to use it.

I will simply wait for the show to explain why Wells can't get back to his own time, but I assume it has something to do with the fact that his connection to the speed force isn't allowing it, for whatever reason. It might also explain why whenever he is standing still (as RF) he appears to be vibrating - it might be just to hide his face / identity, but it could also be that he needs to do that to keep his connection "open."


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

I've been thinking about the episode and what the implications are. Here's what we know so far:
Wells is Eobard Thawne
Wells was trying to kill Barry
Wells is protecting Barry

We can strongly intuit that Well is from the future. He mentions he wants to return to his own "world" and his own "time", and knowing what we know from the comics, we can make a good assumption he's from the future.

But there's still a lot of variables. For example, it's not obvious if he was trying to kill Barry as a child, or Barry as an adult. If he killed Barry as a child, there wouldn't be a speed force and he would be negating his own future. Of course, that reasoning alone is a strong criticism of _any_ time travel story that involves changing the past. Namely, the past will never be changed because it either can't or won't. If it was, any reason for it to be changed would be removed, leaving a timeline that's fixed. But I digress.

So when Wells is trying to kill Barry, he's either trying to kill him when Barry was a child (which doesn't make sense, but that doesn't mean the writers still wouldn't write it that way), or he was trying to kill an adult Barry and for some reason we don't know yet, it happened when both were back when Barry was a child. We have to maintain the possibility that Wells is trying to kill Barry at a _much_ later time. Possibly even after he makes his reappearance after his disappearance during the Crisis. Wells is aware of the upcoming Crisis, and has taken great lengths to ensure Barry's safety. So is he saving Barry for those future events, or just so Barry can generate enough Speed Force so he can return home?


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

bobcarn said:


> If he killed Barry as a child, there wouldn't be a speed force and he would be negating his own future.


You're assuming that Barry is the source of the speed force.

He isn't.

However, Barry's connection to the speed force might be barging Wells' own connection to it, preventing him from further time travel. Barry didn't have a connection to it as a child (as far as we know), but since Barry can travel through time he could technically be "present" at whatever time Wells is also there, or his connection is so strong that his existence is sending rippled throughout the speed force, and through time.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

So if Wells is from the future, did he intentionally cause the particle accelerator malfunction in order to create The Flash, which in turn will help Wells get back to his own time?


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

bobcarn said:


> It's not movie canon, but in the official novels that are written, he is. His surviving partner is part of Riker's crew on his ship.


Unless something has changed that I don't know about, the novels are not canon.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

Donbadabon said:


> So if Wells is from the future, did he intentionally cause the particle accelerator malfunction in order to create The Flash, which in turn will help Wells get back to his own time?


He did intentionally cause the malfunction, but we're not sure yet if it will help him get back to his own time.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

classicX said:


> I don't know that Barry has to exceed the speed of light to travel through time, but I think it's safe to assume that he can at least approach the speed of light, given the lightning issue discussed here. Although I'm not sure how he was actually able to see the lightning... or anything, for that matter.


FYI, Lightning doesn't travel at the speed of light, but it's a common misconception that it does.

Edit: Top google search for this
http://www.komonews.com/weather/faq/4347976.html


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

JYoung said:


> Unless something has changed that I don't know about, the novels are not canon.


They kind of are. They're pseudo-canon. Unless something contradicts the TV shows or movies, they're considered to be "real". And the thing is that because they're protected by the Star Trek franchise, they adhere to the not only to the establish canon from the TV shows and movies, but adhere to the canon they introduced amongst themselves.

Also, there's no new movies or television shows from that universe anymore. All efforts are now in the new universe when it comes to movies, and it'll likely be the same with TV shows if any are made in the future. So the only way to add to the original universe is through novels.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

classicX said:


> You're assuming that Barry is the source of the speed force.
> 
> He isn't.


Actually, he is. _Flash: Rebirth #4._ Perhaps the TV show will deviate from the comics and make it so he isn't, but in the comics, it was revealed (much to Barry's surprise) that the was the one who created the Speed Force.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

bobcarn said:


> Actually, he is. _Flash: Rebirth #4._ Perhaps the TV show will deviate from the comics and make it so he isn't, but in the comics, it was revealed (much to Barry's surprise) that the was the one who created the Speed Force.


I stand corrected.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Great episode... Just binge watched the last 8 episodes over the past few days. It's obvious to me (which means I'm probably wrong) that most of the big events in this episode will wind up not having happened due to Barry going back in time. 

I'm guessing Wells cannot travel back in time anymore, or he would be redoing things that don't go well for him. 

I'm wondering why the DNA test of the blood that Cisco tested didn't match Wells. Best guess is that Wells tampered with whatever reference DNA that the sample was compared to. 

Also, I hate being "that guy", but it would be great if the discussions of previews of upcoming episodes were spoilerized, as per the forum rules.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

bobcarn said:


> Actually, he is. _Flash: Rebirth #4._ Perhaps the TV show will deviate from the comics and make it so he isn't, but in the comics, it was revealed (much to Barry's surprise) that the was the one who created the Speed Force.


I'm waay out of date on the comics, but how do they explain the speedsters that predate Barry, like Jay Garrick?


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

Ereth said:


> Bobcarn said "Star Trek", not any particular series.


But you were the one who specifically mentioned TNG.



Ereth said:


> And, yes, it was rather obviously a reference to the fact that the ACTOR was gay, because I specifically said, in the very post you quoted, that there were no overtly gay characters. Geez, get a clue.


I have one, and reasoned it out well. You didn't say actor. You said "helmsman". That's a character, not the person playing him or her.


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

bobcarn said:


> Actually, he is. _Flash: Rebirth #4._ Perhaps the TV show will deviate from the comics and make it so he isn't, but in the comics, it was revealed (much to Barry's surprise) that the was the one who created the Speed Force.


Which would have been a real surprise to Max Mercury, who'd actually had more than one speedster identity over a century or more, and who kept accidentally interacting with the SF and time jumping forward, apparently changing his identity in the new era(s) he ended up in.

I hate it when DC ignores their own plainly stated continuity.

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Max_Mercury
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Max_Mercury_(New_Earth)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Mercury



allan said:


> I'm waay out of date on the comics, but how do they explain the speedsters that predate Barry, like Jay Garrick?


See above.

There was a storyline where the Speed Force disappeared or something, and Jay was still able to speed along. They had him saying something like 'I may not be able to tap into the Speed Force now, but I'm still a meta-human', implying he was fast on his own (due to HIS speed-producing accident), even without the SF being involved. Guess it's something similar to Kryptonians and Daxamites being able to move at super-speed, tho' having no connection to the SF at all. They're just "naturally" fast.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

According to the ret-con, the Speed Force exists outside of time, so when Barry created it doesn't matter.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> According to the ret-con, the Speed Force exists outside of time, so when Barry created it doesn't matter.


So it has no mass?


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## cditty (Jun 8, 2003)

Before I read too much in this thread, I must have missed something. The last thing I remember was the doc Wells speeding up his hand and killing Cisco. Did something happen after that? Was there a second episode I missed?


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

cditty said:


> Before I read too much in this thread, I must have missed something. The last thing I remember was the doc Wells speeding up his hand and killing Cisco. Did something happen after that? Was there a second episode I missed?


This is all from seeing this 5 days ago: Barry tried to stop the tidal wave and went so fast to create a barrier that he went back in time. He ran next to himself in the past. This explains how he saw himself earlier(?).

He ended up at the street corner where the lady was hailing a cab.


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## cditty (Jun 8, 2003)

Thanks Tek. I thought for a bit that I missed more than that. Thanks for bringing me up to speed.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

cditty said:


> Thanks Tek. I thought for a bit that I missed more than that. Thanks for bringing me up to *speed*.


I had to chuckle at the phrasing.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

gastrof said:


> But you were the one who specifically mentioned TNG.


I mentioned a couple of plots in TNG and that means I can only talk about TNG? Who made these rules up?



> I have one, and reasoned it out well. You didn't say actor. You said "helmsman". That's a character, not the person playing him or her.


You do know that George Takei talks about being the helsman on the Enterprise, right? In the first person? Yes, he played the helmsman, but when he says "I was the helsman on the Enterprise" or "I was the best helmsman in the galaxy", nobody stands up and corrects him, because it's a pedantic point.

It was obvious to everybody but you that I was referring to George Takei, who played a helmsman. That you are still arguing it puzzles the heck out of me. I told you what I meant. I can't help it that you want me to have meant something else so I could be wrong. That's not going to happen. So what's the point of your argument?


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

allan said:


> I'm waay out of date on the comics, but how do they explain the speedsters that predate Barry, like Jay Garrick?


I've referenced this before.

Jay Garrick, the previous Flash, explained it himself. "Before I met Barry, the fastest I'd ever run was the speed of sound. The very day I met Barry, I ran faster than the speed of light. Barry didn't tap into the Speed Force, he created the Speed Force".

The speedsters prior to Barry Allen never went faster than light. After Barry, suddenly they all could. Barry changed the rules. He altered the universe.


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## SleepyBob (Sep 28, 2000)

Ereth said:


> I mentioned a couple of plots in TNG and that means I can only talk about TNG? Who made these rules up?
> 
> You do know that George Takei talks about being the helsman on the Enterprise, right? In the first person? Yes, he played the helmsman, but when he says "I was the helsman on the Enterprise" or "I was the best helmsman in the galaxy", nobody stands up and corrects him, because it's a pedantic point.
> 
> It was obvious to everybody but you that I was referring to George Takei, who played a helmsman. That you are still arguing it puzzles the heck out of me. I told you what I meant. I can't help it that you want me to have meant something else so I could be wrong. That's not going to happen. So what's the point of your argument?


It wasn't obvious to everybody, Ereth. When I read your comment, I also thought you were clearly referring to a character on the show. I thought, "I know George Takei is gay, but what Star Trek character is he talking about?" I assumed there was something I didn't know about because I'm not an extreme Trekker and you are.

Just because you meant one thing, and what you wrote is consistent with that, doesn't mean that your words can't very reasonably be interpreted differently than what you meant. Yet you act like people are dolts for not getting out of your text what you intended to express.

I do appreciate you sharing your insights and knowledge, though. I don't read comics, so I don't know a lot of the background stuff for the Flash and other superheros.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

WTf is with all the open spoilers regarding things we don't know yet from the tv series?


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> WTf is with all the open spoilers regarding things we don't know yet from the tv series?


I've learned in a "Better Call Saul" thread that if the reference material is older than one year, then spoilers are ok.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> WTf is with all the open spoilers regarding things we don't know yet from the tv series?


What specifically are you referencing?


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

I'm not sure where this belongs, but I'm putting it here:






The Flash stars (but not the actor who plays Barry, who was in Glee and who has an awesome voice) sing the Firefly theme a capella.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

SleepyBob said:


> It wasn't obvious to everybody, Ereth. When I read your comment, I also thought you were clearly referring to a character on the show. I thought, "I know George Takei is gay, but what Star Trek character is he talking about?" I assumed there was something I didn't know about because I'm not an extreme Trekker and you are.
> 
> Just because you meant one thing, and what you wrote is consistent with that, doesn't mean that your words can't very reasonably be interpreted differently than what you meant. Yet you act like people are dolts for not getting out of your text what you intended to express.
> 
> I do appreciate you sharing your insights and knowledge, though. I don't read comics, so I don't know a lot of the background stuff for the Flash and other superheros.


Ok, lets look at that sentence ok?

In what scenario could you actually have a "gay helmsmen who they never acknowledged" and yet still have it be canon that he was gay? It can't be done. It's self-contradictory. As I said in my post, there are no overtly gay characters, by which I meant, none that the series would admit are gay. There are no gay characters in Star Trek canon. So, there couldn't be a gay helsman in canon, could there? So I must've meant something else.

In fact, the point I was making was that David Gerrold, the writer famous for "The Trouble with Tribbles", who is gay himself, had many discussions with Roddenberry about breaking that barrier, and that Roddenberry had promised he would, and then backed out of that promise, which caused a rift between Gerrold and Roddenberry. Given how often Gerrold references that rift, I assume he's still angry about it to this day, or at least a little steamed.

Now, I'll grant you that people who have no background in all of this could not know any of that and might possibly not know what the heck I was talking about. But once I explain that I was making a comment about the fact that Takei was gay, and nobody was allowed to know that, a reasonable responder would not then ARGUE with me over whether what I said was true or not. They could have gone "oh, I didn't get that", but "no, you are wrong" is not going to get anywhere. Arguing semantics over whether "helmsman" can only refer to a character and not the actor playing that character is an exercise in futility. How what I wrote was interpreted by the reader is not something I have any control over. I was writing to people who would understand what I meant. It was a throw-away joke, a tossed off reference for people who would get it, and the fact that it's engendered a 3 day argument is, frankly, mind-boggling.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

danterner said:


> I'm not sure where this belongs, but I'm putting it here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is plain awesome.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Quit derailing thread please..


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

robojerk said:


> quit derailing thread please..


 +1


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## Queue (Apr 7, 2009)

danterner said:


> I'm not sure where this belongs, but I'm putting it here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Need to go watch Firefly now.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

robojerk said:


> quit derailing thread please..





davidtigerfan said:


> +1


+2


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

Ereth said:


> Ok, lets look at that sentence ok?
> 
> In what scenario could you actually have a "gay helmsmen who they never acknowledged" and yet still have it be canon that he was gay? It can't be done. It's self-contradictory. As I said in my post, there are no overtly gay characters, by which I meant, none that the series would admit are gay. There are no gay characters in Star Trek canon. So, there couldn't be a gay helsman in canon, could there? So I must've meant something else.
> 
> ...


I understood it. I'm a bit surprised, even by TCF standards, that it's still an issue.

But I digress. I didn't hear about the rift between Roddenberry and Gerrold. I'm going to look that up and see if I can find anything more about it. I'm an old ST fan. I remember being a kid and watching original airings of Star Trek. I remember being horribly afraid during The Man Trap. I'm a trekkie at heart. But I swear, if they continue to insist on being a gay-free 24th-century outer space chik-fil-a, I won't watch the new movies anymore. I'll give a pass on the original series because it's understandable for that time period. Heck, the TV's first interracial kiss on that show was at an angle so you couldn't see the lips touching. So they get a free pass on no gay issues.

Interestingly, they did blur gender lines once, and inadvertently created a same-sex romance. In _Turnabout Intruder_, Janice Lester switched bodies with Captain Kirk, with the intention of keeping Kirk's body. If you dig below the surface, you realize the man helping her was in love with her and was willing to stay with her even if she was in Kirk's body.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I don't understand why half the posts in the thread about a Flash episode are about gay Star Trek characters. If you want to talk about that start your own thread, don't hijack this one.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

morac said:


> I don't understand why half the posts in the thread about a Flash episode are about gay Star Trek characters. If you want to talk about that start your own thread, don't hijack this one.


Welcome to the internets.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)




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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

morac said:


> I don't understand why half the posts in the thread about a Flash episode are about gay Star Trek characters. If you want to talk about that start your own thread, don't hijack this one.


The Flash moves faster than light. What else moves faster than light? The Enterprise!

The Flash can go back in time. What else goes back in time? The Enterprise!

And I think Cisco is a TOS fan.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

I still don't get how there weren't two Flashes/Barry Allens when Flash jumped back a day. That's the only part of the story that really bugged me.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)




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## wtherrell (Dec 23, 2004)

morac said:


> I don't understand why half the posts in the thread about a Flash episode are about gay Star Trek characters. If you want to talk about that start your own thread, don't hijack this one.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

...and the other half are people complaining abut the gay Star Trek posts...


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> ...and the other half are people complaining abut the gay Star Trek posts...


And the 3rd half are making jokes about it.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

And the fourth half are thinking that if someone wants to steer the thread back to the Flash, then post something about the Flash.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

How can you have more than three halves?


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> How can you have more than three halves?


Time travel duplication?


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> How can you have more than three halves?


Cut more than one thing in half?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

allan said:


> Time travel duplication?


But we've already established that time travel replaces things, not duplicates them...


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

danterner said:


> I'm not sure where this belongs, but I'm putting it here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, with Gustin, Martin, Cosnett, and Valdes, all in good voice, I'm ready for the musical episode of the Flash.


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

morac said:


> I don't understand why half the posts in the thread about a Flash episode are about gay Star Trek characters. If you want to talk about that start your own thread, don't hijack this one.


Just be glad you're not in a Big Bang Theory thread.....


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## 59er (Mar 27, 2008)

Craigbob said:


> Just be glad you're not in a Big Bang Theory thread.....


Ugh. Penny's haircut!


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## Drewster (Oct 26, 2000)

danterner said:


> I'm not sure where this belongs, but I'm putting it here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Jesse Martin originated the role of Tony in Rent on Broadway, and turned in some amazing vocals on Ally McBeal too.


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> How can you have more than three halves?


Half of this, half of that and half of the other.

ETA: I have to not post when having fun in the afternoon.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

Drewster said:


> Jesse Martin originated the role of Tony in Rent on Broadway, and turned in some amazing vocals on Ally McBeal too.


The musical theater nerd in me has to correct you: Martin originated the role of Tom Collins in Rent.


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## Drewster (Oct 26, 2000)

Whoops! Thank you for the correction.


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