# Terminator: Sarah Connors Chronicles "The Turk" OAD:1-21-2008 *spoilers*



## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Man Sarah's dreams are just totally freaky...

I do love the references to historcial advances.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

I don't get the stuff that was going on at the school, at all. That was just... messed up.

Is Cameron devolving before our very eyes? I mean, she started off "yeah, my dad sells tractors, what does yours do?" and all human and stuff... but since then, she's been getting more and more weird, less and less human-like. It's really getting quite frustrating.

I really, REALLY hated this episode.


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

I'm totally confused about what's going on at school as well, though somebody does seem to be a decent artist.


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## emandbri (Jul 5, 2004)

I don't get it either. I'm just guessing but I was thinking the blond chick was having an affair with the chem teacher but how what was on the door points to her I don't know.


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

LoadStar said:


> I don't get the stuff that was going on at the school, at all. That was just... messed up.
> 
> Is Cameron devolving before our very eyes? I mean, she started off "yeah, my dad sells tractors, what does yours do?" and all human and stuff... but since then, she's been getting more and more weird, less and less human-like. It's really getting quite frustrating.
> 
> I really, REALLY hated this episode.


I agree.

I was looking forward to her "school girl charm" she had in the first episode, well 1st scene in 1st episode anyway.

I hope Sara doesn't think she solved anything by torching the guys house, he will just make a bigger better one. Should of wacked him.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

LoadStar said:


> Is Cameron devolving before our very eyes? I mean, she started off "yeah, my dad sells tractors, what does yours do?" and all human and stuff... but since then, she's been getting more and more weird, less and less human-like. It's really getting quite frustrating.


No kidding.

I liked the regenerating robot stuff, and the stuff about Sarah's date. I even would have liked the school stuff, if they had not contradicted themselves so much from what was in the pilot. That was extremely bad writing, as if we wouldn't remember what happened one week ago? I guess it served the plot to have her act normal at first before we knew she was a Terminator, so they did it. 

That was more than annoying, it ruined what could have otherwise been an enjoyable episode.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

emandbri said:


> I don't get it either. I'm just guessing but I was thinking the blond chick was having an affair with the chem teacher but how what was on the door points to her I don't know.


I'm guessing she knew that it was going to reveal her name on the door eventually (Sheridan, maybe?)


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## Waldorf (Oct 4, 2002)

That's the only thing I could think of... first day, it was an "A", then a "DAN", and her last day, a "IDAN"... they certainly could've done that much better.

That being said, as ham-fisted as some of this stuff is, I'm still dedicated until Fox's judgement day.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

LoadStar said:


> Is Cameron devolving before our very eyes? I mean, she started off "yeah, my dad sells tractors, what does yours do?" and all human and stuff... but since then, she's been getting more and more weird, less and less human-like. It's really getting quite frustrating.


I expected the story to slow down due to the new (time) environment but yeah, I'm wondering if Summerator is suffering from time lag as well as she was more natural in the pilot.
Hopefully, this will be adjusted in upcoming episodes.



Waldorf said:


> That's the only thing I could think of... first day, it was an "A", then a "DAN", and her last day, a "IDAN"... they certainly could've done that much better.


I dunno, it seemed pretty obvious that she was the focus of it and probably having sex with her teacher when she had her meltdown in the hallway.
I wonder if Summerator will follow up on this or this was just to show how "John shouldn't get involved."
Her "Don't be a freak" was pointed and well done.

Interesting morality debate on whether or not they should kill Andy. I'd like to see this in more depth in the future.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

LoadStar said:


> Is Cameron devolving before our very eyes? I mean, she started off "yeah, my dad sells tractors, what does yours do?" and all human and stuff... but since then, she's been getting more and more weird, less and less human-like. It's really getting quite frustrating.
> 
> I really, REALLY hated this episode.


I had the complete opposite reaction. I not only loved this episode, but thought it was a step up from the previous ones and hoped that they could continue the momentum.

I don't think there have been any consistency issues in how Cameron has been acting. She is very good at learning human behavior well enough to mimic it, but does not grasp the underlying subtlety. They highlighted this trait during the last episode when we discovered that the resistance fighters were using a poster of a kitten to hide the safe. It was out of place enough for humans to notice, but not for a Terminator.

So I don't think it's that surprising that jumping 10 years into the future and encountering a whole new sub-culture of kids with their own slang would put her out of place. She might be able to learn a formal language faster than any human, but without having a firm grasp of the subtleties of human nature, her learning of informal language would be much more difficult.

As far as how natural she was acting when originally meeting John, her interaction was very limited. She might have been in the area long enough to pick up what was necessary in order to act natural for the few sentences she spoke to John, or perhaps she was trained specifically for that first encounter. But either way, just because she could act naturally in that situation doesn't mean she could in others the way we would expect a human to be able to.


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

I thought it was a pretty good episode, but definitely the weakest of the three so far. Mainly because of the aforementioned "student/teacher affair" subplot. It was just way out of left field, confusing, and didn't really fit well.

I also agree that Cameron was a better teenager when she first met John. 

By the way, I probably missed it mentioned somewhere but is Cameron's name an intentional nod to James Cameron?


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

My guess is the whole student suicide plot was to highlight John's hero qualities.

"I thought I was supposed to be this big hero", or something like that.

If there is nothing further about it, then it was a stupid way to go about it, but I kinda figure that since there will be more scenes in the school, then we'll find out soon enough.

-smak-


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

BitbyBlit said:


> She might have been in the area long enough to pick up what was necessary in order to act natural for the few sentences she spoke to John, or perhaps she was trained specifically for that first encounter.


I think we're over-analyzing this too much (yeah, I know, it's what we do here  )... Somewhere between the pilot script and the 1st batch of new scripts, either different writers got involved, or someone decided to tweak the character.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jschuur said:


> I think we're over-analyzing this too much (yeah, I know, it's what we do here  )... Somewhere between the pilot script and the 1st batch of new scripts, either different writers got involved, or someone decided to tweak the character.


Yeah, it's pretty common for shows to evolve between pilot and series. They probably just decided she needed to be (or at least start out) more terminatory.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

LoadStar said:


> I don't get the stuff that was going on at the school, at all. That was just... messed up.
> 
> Is Cameron devolving before our very eyes? I mean, she started off "yeah, my dad sells tractors, what does yours do?" and all human and stuff... but since then, she's been getting more and more weird, less and less human-like. It's really getting quite frustrating.
> 
> I really, REALLY hated this episode.


Totally agree....this ep was VERY disappointing. And the Cameron issue is very surprising; how could they so quickly allow her "personality" to derail?

We can only hope this gets better fast otherwise viewers (like me) will leave in droves.


jschuur said:


> ...Somewhere between the pilot script and the 1st batch of new scripts, either different writers got involved, or someone decided to tweak the character.


Yeah, but this is WAY more than a tweak.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

I thought the episode was rather good. The characters are developing much better than they were previously. The actors/writers seem to be finding their stride pretty quickly. Dekker's delivery of John's speech to his mom about what he's supposed to be was spot on, too. Good job.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

When the Terminator was with the Scientist, and talking through the ski mask, why did the mask puff-out when it talked?
I am not asking this to try and say it was a goof, I am really curious if the terminators talk via expressed air through a vocal chord system.


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

Donbadabon said:


> When the Terminator was with the Scientist, and talking through the ski mask, why did the mask puff-out when it talked?
> I am not asking this to try and say it was a goof, I am really curious if the terminators talk via expressed air through a vocal chord system.


Well, they are made to mimic humans, so there should be a system very similar to our throat, vocal cord system, and without the fleshy part of the system is why he sounded so electronic.


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## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

Donbadabon said:


> When the Terminator was with the Scientist, and talking through the ski mask, why did the mask puff-out when it talked?
> I am not asking this to try and say it was a goof, I am really curious if the terminators talk via expressed air through a vocal chord system.


At that point I don't think it would have been able to at that point because it was still just an endoskeleton. Now that it has the biological component back, I'd think it would mimic human voice with some kind of vocal cord system.


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## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

It's been a few days now since the terminator took out the safe house... how long before the remaining resistance fighter reveals himself?


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

Donbadabon said:


> When the Terminator was with the Scientist, and talking through the ski mask, why did the mask puff-out when it talked?
> I am not asking this to try and say it was a goof, I am really curious if the terminators talk via expressed air through a vocal chord system.


I was wondering who this scientest was. How did the terminator know to go to him?


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

BitbyBlit said:


> So I don't think it's that surprising that jumping 10 years into the future and encountering a whole new sub-culture of kids with their own slang would put her out of place. She might be able to learn a formal language faster than any human, but without having a firm grasp of the subtleties of human nature, her learning of informal language would be much more difficult.


I would expect a "learning machine," when encountering an unfamiliar situation that they have not learned an appropriate response to, that they would fall back on training they gathered in the closest analogue to the situation.

More simply, I'd have expected Cameron to default to her learned behavior that she used in a previous school situation. Yes, the updated informal language should and would have thrown her off and caused her to try to have to adapt her responses to accommodate, but otherwise, behaviors learned in a school in 1999 would still be usable in a school in 2007.

Additionally, this episode really seems a step back in Cameron's ability from last week, where we saw her adapt quickly enough, watching the girl outside the ID guy's house and adopting her stature and body language. This episode there didn't seem to be ANY sort of mimic behavior... she was less human than first season Data from Star Trek in this episode.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

jamesbobo said:


> I was wondering who this scientest was. How did the terminator know to go to him?


Seemed to me like he could've been the scientist on record in the future as having developed the artificially grown skin... he just hadn't done so yet because he had colleagues in the present who were incorrect about the research.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

If I were the skin regeneration scientist, I would have hauled ass to parts unknown once the Terminator robot was submerged. No way I would have been there once the process was complete.

I think Cameron as a high school student will get old quickly. Why doesn't Sarah just homeschool John?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> If I were the skin regeneration scientist, I would have hauled ass to parts unknown once the Terminator robot was submerged. No way I would have been there once the process was complete.


There's no way he would have left without finding out what would happen with his creation. And he didn't really have a reason to expect that he would be harmed. If anything, he should have run away when he saw the metal endoskeleton...


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

Was Heisenberg the one who made the math error that made the Nazi's decide an A-bomb wasn't practical?

I didn't like Cameron's regression peronalitywise. Maybe all her recent fighting has knocked some sense out of her. I think one way to play it would be 'well-tuned' to interacting with John (she does tell jokes) but be awkward around strangers.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

MickeS said:


> There's no way he would have left without finding out what would happen with his creation. And he didn't really have a reason to expect that he would be harmed. If anything, he should have run away when he saw the metal endoskeleton...


C'mon. I'm pretty sure that doctor had cable. Nothing good ever happens when a man with a ski mask, goggles and his own trunk full o' blood enters your office.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I thought this was better than last week in most ways and worse in a few. It would seem they answered some of my questions about the need for this terminator, but at the same time opened up a new set of questions. So the terminator is the only one aware of John and Sarah, but why don't the terminators from the future have this knowledge? Seems fishy to me. They will have to write it in a way that they never get found out, right?

The dumb terminator was confusing but I think that's the new direction. Kind of strange... I guess they felt that there wasn't enough humor otherwise. Why not dial it up instead of down and make her all buffy-like? Now THAT would be fun.

Why is John less of a wussy boy this episode? Same reason that cameron is dumber?


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## footballdude (Apr 16, 2004)

OK, they went to the scientist's home with the formula written on the wall and showed blood everywhere and some dead guy with his eyes removed. I thought that would be the scientist which regenned the terminator's skin. Then they cut to the next scene where the scientist is still helping the terminator. Who died?


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

I liked the reference to the 4 year old's fingerprints 

Over all I liked this EP - but poor Penny fell asleep half way through.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

footballdude said:


> OK, they went to the scientist's home with the formula written on the wall and showed blood everywhere and some dead guy with his eyes removed. I thought that would be the scientist which regenned the terminator's skin. Then they cut to the next scene where the scientist is still helping the terminator. Who died?


I think that last scene was a flashback.


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## JDHutt25 (Dec 27, 2004)

Could her regression be explained by her recent reboot?


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

footballdude said:


> OK, they went to the scientist's home with the formula written on the wall and showed blood everywhere and some dead guy with his eyes removed. I thought that would be the scientist which regenned the terminator's skin. Then they cut to the next scene where the scientist is still helping the terminator. Who died?


I believe the only purpose of that scene was to explain why the dead scientist had his eyes removed.

With my confusion over the entire school thing, I had completely forgotten about the questions about who the scientist was, how he was found, etc.

I guess I'll have to get used to this show dumping us into random, unknown situations at times. I'm not a fan of useless exposition, but a little something to anchor the incongruous scenes we're watching would be nice.


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## emandbri (Jul 5, 2004)

footballdude said:


> OK, they went to the scientist's home with the formula written on the wall and showed blood everywhere and some dead guy with his eyes removed. I thought that would be the scientist which regenned the terminator's skin. Then they cut to the next scene where the scientist is still helping the terminator. Who died?


It was very badly done. Pretty sure that was a flashback.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

TAsunder said:


> I think that last scene was a flashback.


That's the way I read it, too.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Nobody mentioned yet the new character we saw. The detective, played by the actress from The Shield (Dani).


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

MickeS said:


> There's no way he would have left without finding out what would happen with his creation. And he didn't really have a reason to expect that he would be harmed. If anything, he should have run away when he saw the metal endoskeleton...


You know, I would have thought that the fact that Cromartie grabbed him by the neck, lifted him in the air, and choked him would have been a big clue.


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## scsiguy72 (Nov 25, 2003)

John:When did you talk to her?

Cameron:2 hours 3 minutes ago..4 minutes


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

scsiguy72 said:


> John:When did you talk to her?
> 
> Cameron:2 hours 3 minutes ago..4 minutes


I LOVED that. Real nice touch....


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

MickeS said:


> I'm guessing she knew that it was going to reveal her name on the door eventually (Sheridan, maybe?)


I saw the "IDAN" on the 'final' door and my mind filled in the gaps so that it said GUIDANCE.

I figure she was sleeping with her Guidance Counselor.


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## ThePennyDropped (Jul 5, 2006)

I think the thing that drives me most batty about how stupid Cameron has become in her personal interactions and language skills is that it's been done before, just as badly. Forty years ago, on the original Star Trek, when Spock occasionally fumbled around with colloquial English or humor, it was annoying. Twenty years ago, when it was Data on ST:TNG who had an illogical lack of understanding of language usage, it was annoying. And now, when it's been done to death elsewhere, it's even more annoying, especially since it seems to be a regression for Cameron.

--Debbie


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Skittles said:


> I saw the "IDAN" on the 'final' door and my mind filled in the gaps so that it said GUIDANCE.
> 
> I figure she was sleeping with her Guidance Counselor.


Yes! That makes sense. That plot wasn't very well written.

Now that I think about it, the three episodes shown so far have really been poorly written. They have just been lucky that they had some built in good will thanks to the Terminator name.


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## MrGreg (May 2, 2003)

Mikkel_Knight said:


> It's been a few days now since the terminator took out the safe house... how long before the remaining resistance fighter reveals himself?


Isn't that who was lurking around Andy's place? I thought we saw a bar code on the prowler's arm.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Drop the high school mystery part and the show wasn't that bad.


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## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

MrGreg said:


> Isn't that who was lurking around Andy's place? I thought we saw a bar code on the prowler's arm.


Yeah - that's what I'm saying... when is he going to "reveal" himself to Sarah...

I mean... if he's been following/watching them for a few days, he's gotta have some kind of clue that they're at least resistance fighters if not the legendary Sarah and Jon themselves...


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## caslu (Jun 24, 2003)

I noticed Phil Morris was listed in the opening credits and I know from the previous episodes that he's probably the recast of Miles Dyson but apart from the fact that Dyson is supposed to be dead (blown up in T2), I didn't see Phil Morris anywhere in this episode so I was wondering (wild speculation follows)...



Spoiler



...is it possible that Miles Dyson didn't die but somehow ended up in the future. Now he's back and is the sole surviving future resistance fighter that we keep seeing in the shadows. Perhaps he's even responsible for Cameron's existence - thus accounting for why she's different and her comment on the resistance knowing her from before.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

As before, the 5.1 sound on this show just rocks!!!!

Regardless, I really am liking this. Sure, maybe it's partially because there is not much on right now, but I really do like this a lot.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

caslu said:


> I noticed Phil Morris was listed in the opening credits and I know from the previous episodes that he's probably the recast of Miles Dyson but apart from the fact that Dyson is supposed to be dead (blown up in T2), I didn't see Phil Morris anywhere in this episode so I was wondering (wild speculation follows)...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I like it.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

caslu said:


> I noticed Phil Morris was listed in the opening credits and I know from the previous episodes that he's probably the recast of Miles Dyson but apart from the fact that Dyson is supposed to be dead (blown up in T2), I didn't see Phil Morris anywhere in this episode so I was wondering (wild speculation follows)...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I too noticed Phil Morris in the credits, and expected a flashback. I think you're onto something.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Mikkel_Knight said:


> It's been a few days now since the terminator took out the safe house... how long before the remaining resistance fighter reveals himself?


Yes, he was lurking around Andy's place when Sarah was having dinner with him, and probably wants to make sure Sarah is on the right side before revealing himself. Remember, according to the info he has, Sarah should already be dead in 2007 and John would be about 25, not 17.


emandbri said:


> It was very badly done. Pretty sure that was a flashback.


Yes, it was badly done. When he first emerged out of the blood, I thought, "He was in the tub the whole time while the cops were searching the house?" Then when the scientist was still alive, I realized it was a flashback, and the red glowing eyes explained why the scientist was killed and his eyes removed.


Skittles said:


> I saw the "IDAN" on the 'final' door and my mind filled in the gaps so that it said GUIDANCE.
> 
> I figure she was sleeping with her Guidance Counselor.


That doesn't make sense though, because if the door was simply going to say GUIDANCE, that doesn't implicate the girl. She clearly thought that whatever information was in that painting was very clearly pointing to her.


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

MickeS said:


> Yes! That makes sense. That plot wasn't very well written.


I agree with this point (though disagree that the other two episodes were poorly written). The school subplot was just plain terrible, and a step backwards for Cameron as a character. Bleh.

I'm hopeful that the story with the time travelling resistance cell takes the forefront soon. That thread has some serious promise for making this a kickass season, versus just a cash-in.

Still not sure how I feel on the casting for Sarah Connor. She is just way too pretty and not enough of a badass.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Skittles said:


> Still not sure how I feel on the casting for Sarah Connor. She is just way too pretty and not enough of a badass.


I agree completely. In T2, Sarah was completely buff and had zero sense of humor. They've really softened her up for this.

"Don't you kiss me"


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

PJO1966 said:


> I agree completely. In T2, Sarah was completely buff and had zero sense of humor. They've really softened her up for this.
> 
> "Don't you kiss me"


It's not like the TV version is Little Miss Sunshine either though. As Lena Headley said in an interview in EW, it wouldn't work for a TV show to play Sarah the same as she was played in T2. It would be boring.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

That whole door, high school confusing thing has me....well....confused. Was the chemistry guy who died at the hands of the Terminator-in-the-bathtub a teacher at the school? If so, did all the students know the guy was dead? Was that the door of the office of the chemistry guy? Did the student have an affair with the guy? Is the student really a Terminator (Studinator)? I'm really getting a headache...


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

PJO1966 said:


> I agree completely. In T2, Sarah was completely buff and had zero sense of humor. They've really softened her up for this.
> 
> "Don't you kiss me"


They've definitely softened her up here, but that's only compared to T2. Do you remember Sarah in Terminator? Here's a comparison:

The Terminator









T2









Sarah Connor Chronicles









It just looks more to me like after she averted the crisis in T2 she just sort of went back to her "normal" state after a few years. Seriously, it just looks like they cast Sarah to look more like she did in the first movie.

Greg


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Skittles said:


> ...Still not sure how I feel on the casting for Sarah Connor. She is just way too pretty and not enough of a badass.


I dunno....at least in her dream, she was firing shot after shot at the Terminators


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

Skittles said:


> Still not sure how I feel on the casting for Sarah Connor. She is just way too pretty...


Yea!!!!! Somebody else noticed!


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## whitson77 (Nov 10, 2002)

LoadStar said:


> I don't get the stuff that was going on at the school, at all. That was just... messed up.
> 
> Is Cameron devolving before our very eyes? I mean, she started off "yeah, my dad sells tractors, what does yours do?" and all human and stuff... but since then, she's been getting more and more weird, less and less human-like. It's really getting quite frustrating.
> 
> I really, REALLY hated this episode.


Agreed. It doesn't make sense that she could seem totally normal in the first episode, but now is a complete robo-moron.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> I dunno....at least in her dream, she was firing shot after shot at the Terminators


I just think it's funny, she always dreams with voiceovers. Wish my dreams had voiceovers.

Greg


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Skittles said:


> Still not sure how I feel on the casting for Sarah Connor. She is just way too pretty and not enough of a badass.


I dunno... she took out a Terminator with a motorcycle. That was pretty bad-ass.

Thoughts on other discussion points:


Almost any character in a series should only be compared with their behaviors from episode 2 on, because pilots are simply different animals. I get that Cameron is behaving differently than she was in the pilot, but that happens on the vast majority of new series. Whether you liked the pilot character better is another matter; I think she's good the way she is now. Clearly, evolving her will be part of her character arc on the show. 
As far as I can tell, the stuff with the girl at school was a case of dramatic overwriting. They just needed a way to show John's heroic potential and the situation needed to build, but do so quickly so they could move on. The vehicle they chose (jumping girl) was kind silly and the lever for it (the artwork) was just stupid. I doubt we'll hear about either one again.
As has been said, Sarah has to be different than she was in T2. That character -- angry, represesed, give-no-quarter -- would quickly become tiresome on TV. I don't even think she'd be an antihero -- she'd just grate. So they needed to soften her up just a bit. I like Headey in the role so far.

ETA: The whole "Turk" think was dumb -- or at least, the machine he built was. Why do writers think computers still (ever?) look like the Bat Computer?


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## warrenn (Jun 24, 2004)

I think they should just forget about high school. Everytime they're in the school setting the plot is stupid. If this was real, he'd never be in school in the first place. It's too big of a risk to send him to the same place day after day. What's he going to learn in school anyway?


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## spot1x (Jun 8, 2004)

My opinion on some of the point you guys have brought up:

Hardcore vs toned down Sarah:

In T2 Sarah had to escape from a mental institution where she had been locked up and abused for years. While in TSCC the past two years she has been living a normal and steady life with a boyfriend that she and her son were very close. T2 only takes place over a couple days. I&#8217;m not going to recap all of T2 but those couple of days was just pure hell for her. I am a pretty relaxed guy but I would definitely be in more of a &#8220;Hardcore&#8221; personality mode coming into the situation of T2 than what she is acting like now in TSCC. We are just seeing more of her personality than the couple of days during the events of T2. 

The situation at the School:

Yeah this was pretty confusing in the way they executed it. When nothing was really resolved at the end on why the girl killed her self I just took it as they would be stretching out the &#8220;School Mystery Story Arc&#8221; over more than this episode. If they don&#8217;t then yes it was very poor writing. I was just taking it as a plot that will take more than one epp to resolve.

The personality Digression of Cameron

This I just took that she had been programmed in the future to setup a friendship with one and only one person. The person that even programmed her was John himself from the future. She was chosen by John for her advanced personality functions but just like any other computer she has to be programmed or in the case of AI learn this behavior. She already fulfilled her programming on how to interact with John now she must learn how to interact with other humans in 2007. Shes adapting and trying now but she will be more robot like while shes going though these changes. I don&#8217;t see any issues with this at all and it will be fun to watch her become more human like, just like it was fun to watch Data and Spock.

Why the Terminator Chose the Scientist.

This was never explained but I took it as he was the dude that developed the process for skin regrowth in the future. Why the Terminator would kill one of his own &#8220;Fathers&#8221; was pretty confusing until you realize that no matter who you kill in the past it seems somebody is going to be hell bent on getting skynet built and thus somebody will pick up the slack and come up with the skin regrowth process in the future no matter what. I know this brings up all sorts of paradoxes if the Terminators were to kill John in the past the resistance in the future would still exist but with somebody else in charge. Who knows I don&#8217;t want to dwell on time travel paradoxes, you can never win lol


----------



## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

caslu said:


> I noticed Phil Morris was listed in the opening credits and I know from the previous episodes that he's probably the recast of Miles Dyson but apart from the fact that Dyson is supposed to be dead (blown up in T2), I didn't see Phil Morris anywhere in this episode so I was wondering (wild speculation follows)...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think it is something else



Spoiler



I believe that the actor could be playing the son, that is back as a resistance fighter


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

warrenn said:


> I think they should just forget about high school. Everytime they're in the school setting the plot is stupid. If this was real, he'd never be in school in the first place. It's too big of a risk to send him to the same place day after day. What's he going to learn in school anyway?


Yeah, haven't they ever heard of homeschooling?


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## spot1x (Jun 8, 2004)

kaszeta said:


> Yeah, haven't they ever heard of homeschooling?


I get the feeling that John wouldnt stay put in the home. He seems to be the one that is excited to be going to school and to fit in with other kids. He knows hes going to grow up and be this great man in the future but now he just wants to act his own age and have friends that is not a hot robot. Plus he has the summenator to protect him and its a different time perioid so skynet has no idea they are in 2007. So now Sarah probably feels this is the safest he has ever been and to let him has some sort of a childhood. Whats wrong with a parent wanting that? Remember as much as she is preparing John for the future she is still hell bent on doing what ever it takes to change that future.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

cmontyburns said:


> As has been said, Sarah has to be different than she was in T2. That character -- angry, represesed, give-no-quarter -- would quickly become tiresome on TV. I don't even think she'd be an antihero -- she'd just grate.


Yep. You just described Ana Lucia from "Lost".


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

spot1x said:


> I get the feeling that John wouldnt stay put in the home. He seems to be the one that is excited to be going to school and to fit in with other kids. He knows hes going to grow up and be this great man in the future but now he just wants to act his own age and have friends that is not a hot robot. Plus he has the summenator to protect him and its a different time perioid so skynet has no idea they are in 2007. So now Sarah probably feels this is the safest he has ever been and to let him has some sort of a childhood. Whats wrong with a parent wanting that? Remember as much as she is preparing John for the future she is still hell bent on doing what ever it takes to change that future.


Additionally, just by being home schooled he "stands out" from any other kid his age who would be attending school, and if there was one clear message from this episode, it's "don't stand out."


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Jebberwocky! said:


> I liked the reference to the 4 year old's fingerprints


I didn't get this part. Explain?

(yea, I'm probably dense but it was late; I had just got home from seeing Cloverfield and I squeezed in Prison Break before Terminator)


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

cwoody222 said:


> I didn't get this part. Explain?
> 
> (yea, I'm probably dense but it was late; I had just got home from seeing Cloverfield and I squeezed in Prison Break before Terminator)


They lifted the fingerprints off the bodies in the safe house. They got a match on one of the bodies. The fingerprints belonged to a 4 year-old kid. He'll grow up to join the resistance and come back in time.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

cwoody222 said:


> I didn't get this part. Explain?
> 
> (yea, I'm probably dense but it was late; I had just got home from seeing Cloverfield and I squeezed in Prison Break before Terminator)


they were able to get a fingerprint from one of the freedom fighters send back into time - one of the fed mentioned that had a fingerprint was discovered and that came from a 4 year old kid living in the present time.

(so it must have been bogus was implied and the head fed told the guy to recheck the prints.)

I hopefully got that close enough


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Oh! Gotcha!

I thought the implication was that it was one of the main characters' and I was wondering who was born in 2003!


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## BluesFools (Apr 5, 2000)

He must be one bad-a** 4 year-old to have been fingerprinted before he even got to kindergarten.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

BluesFools said:


> He must be one bad-a** 4 year-old to have been fingerprinted before he even got to kindergarten.


It's pretty common in these days of child abductions for kids to be fingerprinted for security purposes.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It's pretty common in these days of child abductions for kids to be fingerprinted for security purposes.


all three of mine are 

ETA of course I have no idea where the prints are  I'll have to go and ask Penny


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It's pretty common in these days of child abductions for kids to be fingerprinted for security purposes.


But those are mostly unregistered fingerprints. You as the parent are given all the fingerprints and identifying information that was collected so should there be a need for them you have it all together. They're not registering them in any sort of central database (yet) (that we know of).


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

What they might have done is made the cell phone seller dude (forgot his name), be in high school.

Then they'd have something for John to do for a few episodes.

I don't think Cameron's change has been all that bad. First, whatever happened before she found John, she was programmed to do. Now that she's found John, I don't think she's programmed to blend in anymore. And, if she has one of those switches that turns her to learning mode, it's not on.

-smak-


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

dswallow said:


> But those are mostly unregistered fingerprints. You as the parent are given all the fingerprints and identifying information that was collected so should there be a need for them you have it all together. They're not registering them in any sort of central database (yet) (that we know of).


Unless they can scan the paper without physically having it. I was pissed off by this, I thought you fingerprinted your kids and turned it in... nope, you fingerprint your kids, then hold onto the prints "just in case". But they aren't on file anywhere and certainly aren't scanned.

Greg


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

Magister said:


> I think it is something else
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very nice! You should be writing for TV.


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

Magister said:


> I think it is something else
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Phil Morris was in the newspaper clippings picture as Miles Dyson.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> I would expect a "learning machine," when encountering an unfamiliar situation that they have not learned an appropriate response to, that they would fall back on training they gathered in the closest analogue to the situation.
> 
> More simply, I'd have expected Cameron to default to her learned behavior that she used in a previous school situation. Yes, the updated informal language should and would have thrown her off and caused her to try to have to adapt her responses to accommodate, but otherwise, behaviors learned in a school in 1999 would still be usable in a school in 2007.
> 
> Additionally, this episode really seems a step back in Cameron's ability from last week, where we saw her adapt quickly enough, watching the girl outside the ID guy's house and adopting her stature and body language. This episode there didn't seem to be ANY sort of mimic behavior... she was less human than first season Data from Star Trek in this episode.


No kidding! I've seen Eliza programs from 1986 that handle new situations better than her.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> Seemed to me like he could've been the scientist on record in the future as having developed the artificially grown skin... he just hadn't done so yet because he had colleagues in the present who were incorrect about the research.


Except, given that artificial skin is so crucial to the Terminator project, why would he kill the scientist who would eventually invent it.

That's like the _total opposite_ of killing John Connor.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Skittles said:


> I saw the "IDAN" on the 'final' door and my mind filled in the gaps so that it said GUIDANCE.
> 
> I figure she was sleeping with her Guidance Counselor.


What I can't figure out how the girl could figure out that she should be upset from the first painting, which was just a door with an "A" on it.


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## Sherminator (Nov 24, 2004)

Whilst the setup to the suicide was strange, I'm feeling that the setup was for John to grow a pair and develop his leadership skills, which the summernator whilst protecting his anonymity was holding back his credulity as a leader.

I mean, would you follow a person in a fight (for any reason) who wouldn't save someone when they had a perfect opportunity to do so?


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## Mars Rocket (Mar 24, 2000)

I'm just waiting for John to ask the unavoidable question: "Are you fully functional?"

He is a teenage boy, after all. How could this not be what he's thinking about?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Mars Rocket said:


> I'm just waiting for John to ask the unavoidable question: "Are you fully functional?"
> 
> He is a teenage boy, after all. How could this not be what he's thinking about?


If he could just get Cameron to not say anything to his mom, it would be like having the best sex toy ever.


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

Mars Rocket said:


> I'm just waiting for John to ask the unavoidable question: "Are you fully functional?"


I was thinking this 2 episodes ago.

Wait, is that bad?


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

ThePennyDropped said:


> I think the thing that drives me most batty about how stupid Cameron has become in her personal interactions and language skills is that it's been done before, just as badly. Forty years ago, on the original Star Trek, when Spock occasionally fumbled around with colloquial English or humor, it was annoying. Twenty years ago, when it was Data on ST:TNG who had an illogical lack of understanding of language usage, it was annoying. And now, when it's been done to death elsewhere, it's even more annoying, especially since it seems to be a regression for Cameron.


I can sort of see why you're going, but I also understand why so much sci-fi uses this idea -- that aliens/robots don't get humor... because *we* don't even understand why we think things are funny. Humor is such a weird thing (I actually think it's probably analogous to 'miswiring' in the brain).


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Mars Rocket said:


> I'm just waiting for John to ask the unavoidable question: "Are you fully functional?"
> 
> He is a teenage boy, after all. How could this not be what he's thinking about?


Ok, guess I'm the third one in the thread thinking that..


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

jschuur said:


> I was thinking this 2 episodes ago.
> 
> Wait, is that bad?


No, just sick.....she's a freakin' machine, guys!


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## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

busyba said:


> Except, given that artificial skin is so crucial to the Terminator project, why would he kill the scientist who would eventually invent it.
> 
> That's like the _total opposite_ of killing John Connor.


I thought it was pretty clear that the scientist *wasn't* going to invent this technology; the terminator gave him the information he would have never figured out himself. By killing him, the terminator is in fact *restoring* the time line. Also, as they explained, he needed his eyes.


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## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

LoadStar said:


> Additionally, just by being home schooled he "stands out" from any other kid his age who would be attending school, and if there was one clear message from this episode, it's "don't stand out."


How exactly do home schooled kids "stand out"? The terminators use things like government records and other public data to track down their targets; the more you avoid these public institutions, the harder to track down you become.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

dmdeane said:


> How exactly do home schooled kids "stand out"?


Have you _seen_ one???


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## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

busyba said:


> Have you _seen_ one???


Yes, many. What are you implying?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> No, just sick.....she's a freakin' machine, guys!


So is a dildo, what's your point? We can't let women have all the fun!


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

dmdeane said:


> How exactly do home schooled kids "stand out"? The terminators use things like government records and other public data to track down their targets; the more you avoid these public institutions, the harder to track down you become.


1) Anything that's unusual by definition "stands out." Home schooling is unusual by all definitions of the word. The vast majority of kids attend either a public, parochial, or private school... only a tiny number are home schooled. (Only 2.2% of students in 2003 were home schooled. I'd imagine, without looking to find concrete numbers, that if you were to eliminate those that live outside a major metropolitan area, that percentage would drop precipitously, making a decision to homeschool John while living in the middle of LA very unusual indeed.)

2) Those who home school still have to meet the state education requirements. California requires those who home school to choose one of the following options:
- register as a private school and meet all the paperwork requirements that entails
- Hire a certified tutor who would likely have to file all sorts of paperwork with the state
- enroll in an independent study program through either a public or a private school, and file all paperwork that would be required to be a public or private school student, plus whatever additional paperwork is required to participate in an independent study program.

Clearly, not only would home schooling generate just as much government records as attending a public school would (if not more), but it would draw attention simply because it's an unusual choice to make.


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## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

LoadStar said:


> 1) Anything that's unusual by definition "stands out."


Not true. Camouflage is "unusual" but in the right circumstances, it stands out _less_. Context is everything.


> Home schooling is unusual by all definitions of the word. The vast majority of kids attend either a public, parochial, or private school... only a tiny number are home schooled. (Only 2.2% of students in 2003 were home schooled. I'd imagine, without looking to find concrete numbers, that if you were to eliminate those that live outside a major metropolitan area, that percentage would drop precipitously, making a decision to homeschool John while living in the middle of LA very unusual indeed.)


You are confusing "unusual" with "conspicuous". The two are _entirely different things_. I was not saying home schooling wasn't "unusual"; it was saying it was not particularly conspicuous in contemporary America and certainly would not make you more vulnerable to terminators. Seriously, people, how many of you know home schoolers? Do you point and stare and treat them like freaks? Do you run down to the local truant officers to make sure that their children are "legally" being home schooled? In other words do you stick your nose in other people's business and do things that would make home schoolers more conspicuous? Of course you do *not*, unless the family in question is obviously behaving oddly in conspicuous ways, ie, you suspect abuse or criminal acitivty, etc. In most neighborhoods if you kept quiet and kept to yourself, no one would even know whether your kids were home schooled or not. Most people respect other people's privacy.


> 2) Those who home school still have to meet the state education requirements. California requires those who home school to choose one of the following options:
> - register as a private school and meet all the paperwork requirements that entails
> - Hire a certified tutor who would likely have to file all sorts of paperwork with the state
> - enroll in an independent study program through either a public or a private school, and file all paperwork that would be required to be a public or private school student, plus whatever additional paperwork is required to participate in an independent study program.
> ...


No, it would not necessarily. Assuming you abide by the law, you are simply one more student among many, whether you go to a public school or not. But if you aren't going to a public school, your lack of interaction with other people makes you less conspicuous, not more. You are less likely to be involved with the kinds of people who can get you into trouble and can cause undue attention to be drawn to yourself. The ideal situation would be to _reduce_ your interaction with people you don't know, not increase it.

And the State doesn't really know _how_ or _when_ or even necessarily _where_ you are educated as a home schooled kid; the data on home schooled kids is _less_ detailed and specific than public schooled kids. With public schooled kids a terminator not only knows where you are, it knows precisely where you are _according to schedule_, which is even worse. With a home schooled kid, it only knows where your home is - which it can find out in other ways. And you need not actually be at the home where you are registered as a home schooler. These things can be faked if you are really serious about security.

Look, we all know why the writers have put them in a school. It's so they can write stories around school activities. If you were really trying to avoid terminators from the future you'd be entirely off of every government or other data network that existed, living out in a shack in the woods if necessary, homeschooling without government approval and the law be damned. There are a lot more people like that out there than some of you are aware of. You aren't aware of them, because, although they might be _unusual_, they are also damned _inconspicuous_. Unusual people have a high motivation not to be noticed, for many good reasons, and the smart ones do.

Of course, if they were behaving rationally that means there would be no story and it certainly wouldn't be taking place in LA!


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

LoadStar said:


> I would expect a "learning machine," when encountering an unfamiliar situation that they have not learned an appropriate response to, that they would fall back on training they gathered in the closest analogue to the situation.


But the "closest analogue" for her might be something completely different than the "closest analogue" for a human. To draw from another example within the show, the way a computer plays chess is completely different than a human. A computer uses algorithms to calculate optimal moves, while a human uses strategy in an attempt to win. They are two very different methods and motivations, but yet can result in what appears on the surface to be very similar gameplay. However, a slight deviation in a computer's calculated optimal path could mean a change in gameplay that is very different from what would be considered a slight change in a human's strategy.



LoadStar said:


> Additionally, this episode really seems a step back in Cameron's ability from last week, where we saw her adapt quickly enough, watching the girl outside the ID guy's house and adopting her stature and body language. This episode there didn't seem to be ANY sort of mimic behavior... she was less human than first season Data from Star Trek in this episode.


When did she not use mimic behavior that she should have in this episode? And while she did learn a new posture last week, I would say it is safe to say she has no idea of the context in which such a posture is used.

I guess I'm just not seeing any situations in episodes 2 or 3 that Episode 1 Cameron would have handled any differently. If the pilot had been about Cameron the popular cheerleader who befriended the outsider John, and they became close friends only for John to find out at the end that she was a Terminator sent back in time to protect him, then sure, her actions in episodes 2 and 3 would not make much sense. But the only time where she has seemed more human than any other was at the beginning of the pilot with very limited interaction with only one human being, John.

After she revealed herself to John as being a Terminator, I don't see any other time where she has acted more human than any other. And her previous interaction skills could have been from pre-time travel training for making initial contact with John. With enough practice, even a human can learn to fluently recite passages in a foreign language without really knowing what is being said.


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## Vendikarr (Feb 24, 2004)

busyba said:


> Except, given that artificial skin is so crucial to the Terminator project, why would he kill the scientist who would eventually invent it.
> 
> That's like the _total opposite_ of killing John Connor.


The formula is still on the wall, partially obscured by blood. It's certainly possible to get the blood off without messing up the formula.

While he was looking at the formula, the scientist was muttering about others, who were close, etc. I believe others will pick up the work from the formula, and the original scientist will be credited with the breakthrough, posthumously.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

According to Wikipedia:


> In California, for example, homeschoolers must either a.) be part of a public homeschooling program through independent study or a charter school, b.) use a credentialed tutor, or c.) enroll their children in a qualified private school (Such private schools may be formed by the parents in their own home, or parents may utilize a number of private schools which offer some kind of independent study or distance learning options). All persons who operate private schools in California, including parents forming schools just for their own children, must file an annual affidavit with the Department of Education. They must offer certain courses of study (generally similar to the content required in public schools, but described in one page rather than the hundreds of pages of scope and sequence requirements that public schools must follow) and must keep attendance records, but are otherwise not subject to any state oversight. There is no requirement in California that any private school teachers, whether the school is large or small, must have state credentials, although all teachers must be "capable of teaching".


That would certainly put them pretty high on the radar screen!


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

One thing I REALLY liked about "Journeyman" was that we'd discuss details here in the threads after the show... and then later the writers would address those very details! Those writers knew what was important to the story and how to write it, no matter if it was details that COULD be dismissed.

I don't believe the details we discuss here regarding this show (why Cameron seems to have regressed, what will happen to the scientist's formula, how Cromartie's head got through the portal, and others) will ever be addressed, because they are details that, while important for the overall "feel" of the show, the writers just don't care about.
I hope I will be proven wrong!


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

You've got a kid who is missing nine years of history and pop culture knowlege and references and a robot in high school. They're going to stand out like a gigantic sore thumb every day in high school.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> You've got a kid who is missing nine years of history and pop culture knowlege and references and a robot in high school. They're going to stand out like a gigantic sore thumb every day in high school.


Not as bad as the government scrutiny they'd have to go through to get approved for homeschooling...


----------



## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

busyba said:


> Except, given that artificial skin is so crucial to the Terminator project, why would he kill the scientist who would eventually invent it.
> 
> That's like the _total opposite_ of killing John Connor.


There's enough of the formula that's available behind the blood for someone else to put the pieces together...

I'm guessing that it can be assumed that if Goddard had been killed as a child, that someone else would have become the father of rocketry...


----------



## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> You've got a kid who is missing nine years of history and pop culture knowlege and references and a robot in high school. They're going to stand out like a gigantic sore thumb every day in high school.


just the whole 9/11 thing would be a mind-blower for them. Cyborg, not so much... she'd be able to digest the facts, but the emotions would be completely foreign for her...


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## needo (Jul 9, 2003)

MickeS said:


> I don't believe the details we discuss here regarding this show (why Cameron seems to have regressed, what will happen to the scientist's formula, how Cromartie's head got through the portal, and others) will ever be addressed, because they are details that, while important for the overall "feel" of the show, the writers just don't care about.
> I hope I will be proven wrong!


To be fair I don't care about them either. 

Rewatch the pilot its pretty obvious how Cromartie's head got through the portal.

I do not think Cameron has regressed per se. We are assuming based on a couple minutes in the pilot that she was a well adjusted Terminator living among humans. That might not have been the case as others have pointed out.

What happens to the formula? It's pretty obvious that the other scientists who were close would pick it up and continue there research and get it working.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

needo said:


> To be fair I don't care about them either.
> 
> Rewatch the pilot its pretty obvious how Cromartie's head got through the portal.
> 
> ...


Like I said, they don't NEED to address these things. They can let the viewers fill in the gaps any way they want to. But I like when shows DO pay attention to the details - it shows that they think things through and don't just do things without caring about the consequences.


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## kdelande (Dec 17, 2001)

dmdeane said:


> I thought it was pretty clear that the scientist *wasn't* going to invent this technology; the terminator gave him the information he would have never figured out himself. By killing him, the terminator is in fact *restoring* the time line. Also, as they explained, he needed his eyes.


This was my thinking as well, the Terminator filled in some gaps or fixed some errors in the formula that mankind had as of that time.

The Terminator, equipped with the proper formula, showed the scientist the working formula and asked him, can you do this? Once the scientist figured out what had changed, he went ahead and "did it" in his home lab for the Terminator.

I likened it to Star Trek 4 where Scotty helped with the transparent aluminum to get the past time line up to speed faster to help their own cause. Only here, the Terminator ensured the time line was put back right by offing the scientist who we can assume isn't necessarily the exact person who discovers the correct formula later in time.

KD


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Not as bad as the government scrutiny they'd have to go through to get approved for homeschooling...


Why does he need to be schooled at all? He looks old enough to be in the latter stages of a phd program. Who is going to turn him in for not being at school? Why not just have their identification say he is 18? There really is no need for him to be involved in school anymore in terms of education. He could be going to learn about pop culture and events since their time jump, but otherwise it seems totally pointless to me and an artificial construct put into the plot of the show because "people like high school shows".


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## DougF (Mar 18, 2003)

kdelande said:


> This was my thinking as well, the Terminator filled in some gaps or fixed some errors in the formula that mankind had as of that time.
> 
> The Terminator, equipped with the proper formula, showed the scientist the working formula and asked him, can you do this? Once the scientist figured out what had changed, he went ahead and "did it" in his home lab for the Terminator.
> 
> ...


Plus, Scotty should have killed that dude for making the smart remark about using the keyboard.


----------



## needo (Jul 9, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Why does he need to be schooled at all? He looks old enough to be in the latter stages of a phd program. Who is going to turn him in for not being at school? Why not just have their identification say he is 18? There really is no need for him to be involved in school anymore in terms of education. He could be going to learn about pop culture and events since their time jump, but otherwise it seems totally pointless to me and an artificial construct put into the plot of the show because "people like high school shows".


Gotta follow the Terminator timeline. This is set after T2 so he would still be of schooling age. In addition he seems to crave a semi-normal existence and that is going to school, making friends, meeting girls, etc.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

needo said:


> Gotta follow the Terminator timeline. This is set after T2 so he would still be of schooling age. In addition he seems to crave a semi-normal existence and that is going to school, making friends, meeting girls, etc.


Yeah, the show made it pretty clear to me that it's mostly for his personal benefit. If he's supposed to be a great military leader, interpersonal skills might be of value.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Mars Rocket said:


> I'm just waiting for John to ask the unavoidable question: "Are you fully functional?"
> 
> He is a teenage boy, after all. How could this not be what he's thinking about?


Kind of correlates with Stephen Colbert interviewing the guy the other night about sex with robots with in a few years.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

MickeS said:


> Yeah, the show made it pretty clear to me that it's mostly for his personal benefit. If he's supposed to be a great military leader, interpersonal skills might be of value.


There are those who actually considering seeing to your child's education as good parenting! And while Sarah may have her parental...quirks...perhaps this is something she believes in.


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## JDHutt25 (Dec 27, 2004)

Am I going to be the only one to ask if anyone has a particular screencap?


----------



## ChickenCheese (Sep 8, 2003)

Skittles said:


> I saw the "IDAN" on the 'final' door and my mind filled in the gaps so that it said GUIDANCE.
> 
> I figure she was sleeping with her Guidance Counselor.


I was thinking that the letters were reversed, since it was on a glass door, and it was spelling Nadi. And wasn't that the girl's name?


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> There are those who actually considering seeing to your child's education as good parenting! And while Sarah may have her parental...quirks...perhaps this is something she believes in.


She can see to it without registering as an official home schooler or sending him to school. There is no need for him to be "in the system" at all. It's an unnecessary risk with minimal benefits.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

It's not that big of a thing but it just seems weird to send John and Cameron to high school where teenagers frack with outsider type kids just because they feel like fracking with them. And what happens when some guy starts hitting on Cameron?


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> It's not that big of a thing but it just seems weird to send John and Cameron to high school where teenagers frack with outsider type kids just because they feel like fracking with them. And what happens when some guy starts hitting on Cameron?


She breaks her streak of days without killing anyone?


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## whitson77 (Nov 10, 2002)

I'd be surprised if John doesn't have sex with his terminator. He is a boy in his prime after all.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

smak said:


> What they might have done is made the cell phone seller dude (forgot his name), be in high school.


How would that have worked? He was a summer intern at Cyberdyne Systems which is why he was on Sarah's radar at all. He then dropped out of CalTech and has spent several years developing the Turk. How would they have fit all of that into a high-school kid's backstory?


TAsunder said:


> She can see to it without registering as an official home schooler or sending him to school. There is no need for him to be "in the system" at all. It's an unnecessary risk with minimal benefits.


That's what I don't get. Everyone here is talking about registering with the state of California as a homeschooler. As far as the state is concerned, John died in 1999 and doesn't exist in 2007, so there's no reason to register him for anything. Putting him in a regular school or registering him for home school are both unnecessary risks.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

whitson77 said:


> I'd be surprised if John doesn't have sex with his terminator. He is a boy in his prime after all.


"I want you to terminate... my virginity!"


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## Waldorf (Oct 4, 2002)

As soon as someone says something about "Come with me if you want to live," I'm leaving this thread.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Waldorf said:


> As soon as someone says something about "Come with me if you want to live," I'm leaving this thread.


Like changing the "with" to "on" and prefacing the sentence with "Don't"?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> That's what I don't get. Everyone here is talking about registering with the state of California as a homeschooler. As far as the state is concerned, John died in 1999 and doesn't exist in 2007, so there's no reason to register him for anything. Putting him in a regular school or registering him for home school are both unnecessary risks.


Well, I've always thought homeschooling was a stupid idea--Sarah is a waitress with no apparent education. I'm just saying homeschooling would be riskier than public school. If John is to get ANY kind of education, it would have to be in the public school system. And I suspect John getting an education is a priority for Sarah (what with preparing him to be the leader of humanity and all, parental issues aside).


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

whitson77 said:


> I'd be surprised if John doesn't have sex with his terminator. He is a boy in his prime after all.


What if Sarah catches them?

_Dear Abby,
16 years ago (by my frame of reference), I was targeted for death by a killer cyborg from the future.
I fell in love with the man who became my protector but he died while protecting me from the cyborg.
However, I was already pregnant with his child who will grow up and lead the human rebellion against our coming machine overlords.

A few weeks ago, another cyborg from the future tried to kill my son, "James" at school.
A second cyborg, in the form of a teenage female dancer was sent back to protect James by his future self.

We evaded the hostile cyborg, left town, and jumped ahead several years.
We have been spending a lot time in close quarters with the female cyborg and it has obvious that James has become attracted to her as he is a 15 year old boy.

My fears were realized this afternoon when I came home from work early and found them in bed together.
I was so stunned that I haven't been able to say anything to them.

Do you think that a future leader of humanity can have a healthy relationship with a female cyborg?_

Meanwhile, John writes...

_Dear Penthouse Forum....... _


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## AJRitz (Mar 25, 2002)

JYoung said:


> What if Sarah catches them?
> 
> _Dear Abby,
> 16 years ago (by my frame of reference), I was targeted for death by a killer cyborg from the future.
> ...


just adds a whole new meaning to "cybersex" . . .


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## DougF (Mar 18, 2003)

"So, Cameron, where does the metal endoskeleton stop and the living tissue begin?"


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Mars Rocket said:


> I'm just waiting for John to ask the unavoidable question: "Are you fully functional?"
> 
> He is a teenage boy, after all. How could this not be what he's thinking about?


What was that line from Sarah last week? I think it was "Could you holster those?" So, yeah, if his mom is thinking along those lines, how could he not? Then, again, he's a geek who hacked into ATM machines when he was, what, 12?


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Bierboy said:


> No, just sick.....she's a freakin' machine, guys!


Yeah, well, so is Boomer and Six.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> That's what I don't get. Everyone here is talking about registering with the state of California as a homeschooler. As far as the state is concerned, John died in 1999 and doesn't exist in 2007, so there's no reason to register him for anything. Putting him in a regular school or registering him for home school are both unnecessary risks.


The problem is that if he's out and about during school (and you know he won't stay home), he could be picked up by the authorities for truancy.
Then they run his prints, DNA, facial recognition......


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

wprager said:


> What was that line from Sarah last week? I think it was "Could you holster those?" So, yeah, if his mom is thinking along those lines, how could he not? Then, again, he's a geek who hacked into ATM machines when he was, what, 12?


She made another comment along those lines in this episode too. Cameron walked by in the background in her underwear, and then when Sarah and John walked into the room, she was dressed. Sarah said something like, "It's much better like that. With clothes on."


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

cheesesteak said:


> It's not that big of a thing but it just seems weird to send John and Cameron to high school where teenagers frack with outsider type kids just because they feel like fracking with them. And what happens when some guy starts hitting on Cameron?


She starts hitting back? I believe it ends very soon after that.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Since they're using fake id's anyhow, why not just make him 18 and say he's out of school. People don't go around asking to see your diploma. On the other hand, I agree that he could get an education and the leadership skills he needs in school. If he can just keep his picture out of the paper and keep her from killing someone, most weird behavior is accepted among kids isn't it? There's lots of crazies in high school--the crazier the better. Can't see where it would draw that much attention.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

stellie93 said:


> Since they're using fake id's anyhow, why not just make him 18 and say he's out of school. People don't go around asking to see your diploma. On the other hand, I agree that he could get an education and the leadership skills he needs in school. If he can just keep his picture out of the paper and keep her from killing someone, most weird behavior is accepted among kids isn't it? There's lots of crazies in high school--the crazier the better. Can't see where it would draw that much attention.


That's what I was wondering too. Just make his papers say he's older. He looks older, so it would be easy to pull off.

About leadership skills and other things... I am not so sure. If he can't stand out in a crowd he'll never learn to be a good leader. And where will all the military tactics be learned?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

This is yet an example of a show where we think about this stuff more than the writers probably ever have.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

footballdude said:


> OK, they went to the scientist's home with the formula written on the wall and showed blood everywhere and some dead guy with his eyes removed. I thought that would be the scientist which regenned the terminator's skin. Then they cut to the next scene where the scientist is still helping the terminator. Who died?


It may be that your question already was answered and I missed it. The answer is that the scenes were shown out of sequence. First we saw the results of his helping (the crime scene). Then we saw him helping. I guess that, in editing, they thought the latter would be a more dramatic way to close the show.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

MickeS said:


> This is yet an example of a show where we think about this stuff more than the writers probably ever have.


bingo

I just watch them to enjoy them, not dissect each and every scene.

But, if that is what you like to do, who am I to say you need to get a life?


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## markbox (May 3, 2004)

I'm wondering how the terminator gets in a tub of blood and 
ends up with an outter appearance of a human being. Does he
look like he did before? What dictates his appearance. Does his 
programming/hardware inject DNA into the growing biological 
material thus re-creating his past appearance? Can he use 
the same technique to change his appearance over time? And, if
he has this ability why couldn't he grow his own eyes?

Liking this show a lot.


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## whitson77 (Nov 10, 2002)

wprager said:


> Yeah, well, so is Boomer and Six.


Agreed. I just think if he has to choose between hand or hot robot. He'll eventually choose hot robot. I'm just saying...


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

wprager said:


> Yeah, well, so is Boomer and Six.


Uh.....touche


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

I like this John Conner soooo much better than the goofball from T2.


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## scsiguy72 (Nov 25, 2003)

JDHutt25 said:


> Am I going to be the only one to ask if anyone has a particular screencap?


I know! I almost wore out my rewind button trying to zero in on this one sceen. My screen is too small!


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

JYoung said:


> The problem is that if he's out and about during school (and you know he won't stay home), he could be picked up by the authorities for truancy.
> Then they run his prints, DNA, facial recognition......


They can try, but Summer will kill them first.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

scsiguy72 said:


> I know! I almost wore out my *rewind button* trying to zero in on this one sceen. My screen is too small!


Is that what you call it?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

stellie93 said:


> Since they're using fake id's anyhow, why not just make him 18 and say he's out of school. People don't go around asking to see your diploma. On the other hand, I agree that he could get an education and the leadership skills he needs in school.


Also, I'm pretty sure that while *to us* John looks like a guy in his 20's, in the context of the show he's probably not meant to be able to pass for older than 15.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

The actor just turned 20, so he was 19 when all this was filmed.

-smak-


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## FlugPoP (Jan 7, 2004)

When I saw the girl jump off the building I thought she was going to jump up and run away and then I remembered that I wasn't watching KyleXY.

And Thanks for clarifying the 4 year old finger print thing I wasn't getting it.


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## scsiguy72 (Nov 25, 2003)

FlugPoP said:


> When I saw the girl jump off the building I thought she was going to jump up and run away and then I remembered that I wasn't watching KyleXY.


I was afraid the writers were going to go the way of having Cameron run over and catch her and save her life.

Then I remembered I wasn't watching Bionic Woman


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

whitson77 said:


> Agreed. I just think if he has to choose between hand or hot robot. He'll eventually choose hot robot. I'm just saying...


Change that to ".........hot robot THAT OBEYS HIS EVERY COMMAND."


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## mrmike (May 2, 2001)

scsiguy72 said:


> I was afraid the writers were going to go the way of having Cameron run over and catch her and save her life.


[Sheldon]That scene is rife with scientific inaccuracy, you know...[/Sheldon]


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

mrmike said:


> [Sheldon]That scene is rife with scientific inaccuracy, you know...[/Sheldon]


*sigh* I miss that show.....


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

I think the suicide story will continue. This show is going to be like Veronica Mars or The Pretender where you have shows that do not advance the main story. So while they are searching for answers, there will be episodes where John and Cameron and Sarah deal with other things. Maybe help people.


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

Covering the formula with blood was cute, but pointless. Can't they look through stains like that these days? I would hope that the investigators would want to know what it said, since the perp obviously thought it important enough to deface. Probably too much for the writers, though.


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

caslu said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...is it possible that Miles Dyson didn't die but somehow ended up in the future. Now he's back and is the sole surviving future resistance fighter that we keep seeing in the shadows. Perhaps he's even responsible for Cameron's existence - thus accounting for why she's different and her comment on the resistance knowing her from before.





Spoiler



No that can't be right. If I recall correctly, from the glimpse of his forearm the resistance fighter is white.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

tivogurl said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> No that can't be right. If I recall correctly, from the glimpse of his forearm the resistance fighter is white.


That's what I thought too, but since both times we've seen him, it's been in the shadows, I decided we didn't have conclusive enough evidence of that.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

And who says there can be only one? That's a different show...


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## robpickles (May 19, 2005)

kdelande said:


> I likened it to Star Trek 4 where Scotty helped with the transparent aluminum to get the past time line up to speed faster to help their own cause. Only here, the Terminator ensured the time line was put back right by offing the scientist who we can assume isn't necessarily the exact person who discovers the correct formula later in time.


Somehow I do not think the terminators care about altering the timeline.

If they did they'd be a little more careful about who they kill, instead of taking out anyone in their path. Any person they come in contact with, however statistically unlikely, could alter the future - especially people directly involved with elements of their creation such the regrowth scientist, etc.

Rob


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

robpickles said:


> Any person they come in contact with, however statistically unlikely, could alter the future


Actually every single one of us DO alter the future.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

tivogurl said:


> Covering the formula with blood was cute, but pointless. Can't they look through stains like that these days? I would hope that the investigators would want to know what it said, since the perp obviously thought it important enough to deface. Probably too much for the writers, though.


I thought that the formula was written on a dry erase board.
Smearing blood on the board would definately wipe out the formula -- unless they accidentally used a permanent marker.


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## alyssa (Dec 7, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And who says there can be only one? That's a different show...


don't you go all space time continuum on us! I'll get wicked confused.


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## UTV2TiVo (Feb 2, 2005)

Still no screencap of the underwear scene?


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## RoundBoy (Feb 10, 2005)

Regarding the "blood becomes human":

The terminator was built to have a human covering that grows and maintains a human appearance. The formula was just the method to get the blood like medium the terminator needed to keep the skin alive, and according to the scientist.. give a exponential growth rate (fast healing).

I assumed the terminator has the dna / cells for his 'host' skin. Plus, the previews for next week showed :


Spoiler



Him going to a plastic surgeon asking for reconstructive surgery



"Summernator":

John might have sent back a 'fully functional' cyborg back specifically because he knew she would be interacting with his 16-17 yo self. Or, because she fits in better then a large muscled man walking around with a little boy... quick and flowing seems to be a better counter to the large powerhouse that the original terminator had.

"The hallway art":

it was obviously meant to be something involving the girl with a teacher or someone.. the specifics don't matter, as this show is not meant to be a 'mystery of the week' for John to solve. the girl killing herself probably put that subplot to rest, it only existed to highlight John not exposing himself. If there is art in next week's episode targeting another girl.. then I will be disapointed.

I'm liking this series so far.. the pilot has set up some basics.. but the show needs to come into its own pace.. Its been established that this terminator model is really different then others, and summernaitor was silent when asked about her model number.. as well as withholding information from John / Sarah unless asked directly.
It seems pretty obvious that the terminator's main form of attack is to throw each other through walls. The first great robot war will only end when all drywall on earth is exhausted.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

RoundBoy said:


> It seems pretty obvious that the terminator's main form of attack is to throw each other through walls. The first great robot war will only end when all drywall on earth is exhausted.


Yeah but that goes back to T2 with Arnie and Robert Patrick throwing each other around in the Galleria.
(Although the exterior was the Northridge Fashion Mall.)


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## JDHutt25 (Dec 27, 2004)

OK, I found it....


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

In to this interview, Summer Glau gives an in-story explanation for why the Summernator blended so much better in the first episode than in subsequent ones...


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> In to this interview, Summer Glau gives an in-story explanation for why the Summernator blended so much better in the first episode than in subsequent ones...


What do you call a fanwank when it's done by one of the actors on the show, castwank?


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

You could also call it an explanation. I am skeptical though. I suspect it was something that they decided post pilot. Rather than have her already assimilated, they decided that for character development, it would be better that she learn how to be human from Sarah and John. ...and I doubt you could find two worse examples to emulate.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> In to this interview, Summer Glau gives an in-story explanation for why the Summernator blended so much better in the first episode than in subsequent ones...


Doesn't really do the trick for me.


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

Seems more like a description than an explanation, really.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Hunter Green said:


> Seems more like a description than an explanation, really.


Exactly.


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

This show needs to get better in a hurry. I just don't understand how you can possibly make a show based on the Terminator movies boring. But they have manages it so far. And Lena Headey, whose talent I am normally a great admirer of, has been absolutely abysmal. I've seen three episodes so far and I am not impressed.


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