# Who is planning on downgrading to TE3 because of pre-roll ads?



## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

I'm just curious who is thinking about downgrading from TE4 to TE3 in light of the new pre-roll ads.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

This development has given me pause with the idea of sidegrading from my current TE3 to TE4 (which I continually am evaluating), even as an experiment.


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

Mikeguy said:


> This development has given me pause with the idea of sidegrading from my current TE3 to TE4 (which I continually am evaluating), even as an experiment.


I do the same thing with one of my boxes. But it got prompty sidegraded back to TE3 once these pre-rolls popped up. Tivo_Ted's confirmation that TE3 will never be subject to the pre-rolls were reason enough for me to jump hard left...or back.


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## KevTech (Apr 15, 2014)

I went back to TE3 as soon as I saw the post about pre roll ads as I wanted to do it before TE3 downgrade may possibly be blocked.



TiVo_Ted said:


> At this point, TiVo have no plans to implement pre-roll ads on TE3.


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## spiderpumpkin (Dec 1, 2017)

I'm on TE3 and I hope my hard drive doesn't fail after they stop allowing the downgrade.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

The introduction of the preroll ad feature got a short mention and discussion in Leo Laporte's "This Week in Tech" podcast that came out last evening. He didn't like the feature and railed at it, saying that, but for the fact that he paid a lot for his 3 TiVo boxes with Lifetime, he would get rid of them.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

pre-roll ads on tivo were brought up/touched upon in a broad discussion about the streaming wars on CNBC with former Tivo CEO Tom Rogers.


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## caseybea (Oct 14, 2010)

Between loss of transfer of pc files to tivo in TE4, I never had plans to upgrade. This whole issue cements the decision. The day I'm forced to upgrade (or my bolt dies), I'm gone as a tivo customer. There is NO WAY IN HELL I would buy a new box with adware.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

trip1eX said:


> pre-roll ads on tivo were brought up/touched upon in a broad discussion about the streaming wars on CNBC with former Tivo CEO Tom Rogers.


In the coming year with so many high-quality, non-advertising streaming possibilities, "advertising streaming, I think, is going to be at a real disadvantage."


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

Well I am a TE3 person. I have multiple Tivos, I do have one Bolt on TE4 as I wanted to test it, see if an external 3.5 could withstand software updates (so far it has). But if they are going to take away the ability to roll back coupled with the ads I think my "test" may be over.


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

tommage1 said:


> Well I am a TE3 person. I have multiple Tivos, I do have one Bolt on TE4 as I wanted to test it, see if an external 3.5 could withstand software updates (so far it has). But if they are going to take away the ability to roll back coupled with the ads I think my "test" may be over.


I bought a Bolt (Summer Sale) with the intention of of a TE4 trial of sorts - I didn't feel the need to 'RUSH'. The events of the past few days pushed me to doing a TE3 "Roll-Back' last evening. Being a new box with no DVR storage present nothing was lost! Happy I'm NOT - I was looking forward to the TE4 Experience - who knows where TE4 will go? It seems to have issues - not knowing when/if a TE4 'lock' might be applied I just did it!


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

There's no box to check for:

I don't care.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

I thought of downgrading and finally realized I would lose AutoSkip... save a few seconds there and lose a few minutes everywhere... doesn't sound logical.


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## Balzer (Nov 12, 2006)

I will not downgrade. I will wait until the ads start appearing, then call in to complain enough that they disable the ads on my Bolt.


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

Charles R said:


> I thought of downgrading and finally realized I would lose AutoSkip... save a few seconds there and lose a few minutes everywhere... doesn't sound logical.


I had actually bought a Mini VOX also and was looking forward to the experience of 'auto-skip' etc. Having absolutely no TE4 experience I thought it maybe a good move & let the SoftWare 'geniuses' see how smoothly they can get everything sorted. I suffered through an L3TV/T-Vision transition that the S'ware geniuses seem to have come from a 'curb-side' workday pool! It was a struggle that I certainly didn't want duplicated. I'd think the option to return to TE4 and maybe 'opt-out' of ads will maybe stick around or change to the point it's maybe not as much a nuisance as most expect!

I had 2 cases with TiVo support. They insisted 'ads feature' could be dismissed urging me to try! The 2d was since mine was still in wrapper how about a return. They said 'return' was no problem but ironically their responses actually came after I had done the install. Did they see the install being done? Who knows!!! Less than 20 minutes after activation 9:15 PM EDT or so I got the responses.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

tommage1 said:


> Well I am a TE3 person. I have multiple Tivos, I do have one Bolt on TE4 as I wanted to test it, see if an external 3.5 could withstand software updates (so far it has). But if they are going to take away the ability to roll back coupled with the ads I think my "test" may be over.


I'd like to have a TE4 test box as well--but with the prospect that TiVo could turn off the TE4 rollback feature at any time and without any warning, I'm fearful that the box could be stranded on TE4, and with pre-roll ads besides.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

Mikeguy said:


> I'm fearful that the box could be stranded on TE4, and with pre-roll ads besides.


Couldn't you keep a backup drive with TE3 and reinstall it if needed...


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

Charles R said:


> Couldn't you keep a backup drive with TE3 and reinstall it if needed...


Nope, TE3/TE4 isn't stored on the drive, it is stored in flash memory.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

Charles R said:


> I thought of downgrading and finally realized I would lose AutoSkip... save a few seconds there and lose a few minutes everywhere... doesn't sound logical.


I have TE3 and use kmttg (best app ever) to perform autoskip.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

snerd said:


> Nope, TE3/TE4 isn't stored on the drive, it is stored in flash memory.


If I remove my TE3 drive and insert a blank one, TiVo installs TE3 and than I upgrade to TE4. Now I remove the drive and reinstall the TE3 drive what happens?


snerd said:


> I have TE3 and use kmttg (best app ever) to perform autoskip.


I tried it a few times and it was rather clunky... never could take to it.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

Charles R said:


> If I remove my TE3 drive and insert a blank one, TiVo installs TE3 and than I upgrade to TE4. Now I remove the drive and reinstall the TE3 drive what happens?


I'm guessing it treats it like a blank drive and formats it for TE4.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

snerd said:


> I'm guessing it treats it like a blank drive and formats it for TE4.


I'll guess it boots TE3... wonder who guessed right.


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## compuguy (Aug 18, 2014)

I'm considering downgrading. Though I may try to opt out of the ads by calling TiVo support...


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

Charles R said:


> I'll guess it boots TE3... wonder who guessed right.


Just did two hard drive replacements. I can confirm other posts that TE3 is retained as it is on flash not the hard drive.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

UCLABB said:


> Just did two hard drive replacements. I can confirm other posts that TE3 is retained as it is on flash not the hard drive.


Appreciate the testing! However I'm not clear as to the results. What path did you take/results you saw?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

exdishguy said:


> Tivo_Ted's confirmation that TE3 will never be subject to the pre-rolls


@TiVo_Ted didn't directly say this. TE3 being in maintenance mode doesn't preclude TiVo making an exception, at some point in the future, to add this new feature. All he said was that TiVo does not currently have any plans to push pre-rolls ads to TE3, with the later maintenance mode comment.


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## Noelmel (Nov 6, 2014)

I liked TE3 I do like TE4 better and could never loose all my recordings. And I do love auto skip. Haven’t seen the ads yet in Roamio so guess if/when they come I’ll try my luck calling to see if my 5+ years on lifetime qualifies to be removed. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Charles R said:


> If I remove my TE3 drive and insert a blank one, TiVo installs TE3 and than I upgrade to TE4. Now I remove the drive and reinstall the TE3 drive what happens?


You'd need to specify the model of the DVR, whether BOLT, Roamio, etc.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

krkaufman said:


> You'd need to specify the model of the DVR, whether BOLT, Roamio, etc.


Not really as I'm asking about all of the above... are there different results per device? If so, what are they... thanks.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

krkaufman said:


> @TiVo_Ted didn't directly say this. TE3 being in maintenance mode doesn't preclude TiVo making an exception, at some point in the future, to add this new feature. All he said was that TiVo *does not currently have *any plans to push pre-rolls ads to TE3, with the later maintenance mode comment.


And this strategically having been said.


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## dslunceford (Oct 19, 2000)

The ads won't be a reason to downgrade...when I went to mention the ads to the family, though, I got an earful about how they hate TE4 vs the old TiVo (recently moved to Bolt and Mini Vox in main viewing areas...Roamio still on TE3 in a kids game room that doesn't get much/any real use). The WAF will be much better motivator for me *if* I choose to move. I have enough recorded on the Bolt right now that it would be a bit of a PITA to move.


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

I tested TE4 briefly on a new Bolt I bought some time back. Hated it and upgraded (in my opinion) to TE3. The pre-roll ads wouldn't get me to drop Tivo since I have to fast forward or skip ads before and during the shows anyway.

If I'm ever forced to use TE4 I won't buy any new Tivo equipment. If I have to use the same UI as the cable company provides, I might as well save the big capital outlay.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

bobfrank said:


> I tested TE4 briefly on a new Bolt I bought some time back. Hated it and upgraded (in my opinion) to TE3. The pre-roll ads wouldn't get me to drop Tivo since I have to fast forward or skip ads before and during the shows anyway.


 I keep seeing this posted, but a larger part of the problem is the implementation by TiVo can cause huge delays before you can even get to the point where skip actually does anything. That is the larger problem. TiVo has a long/bad history of anything GUI related that fetches things on their servers. If the implementation was seamless it would be a lot more tolerable.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

moyekj said:


> I keep seeing this posted, but a larger part of the problem is the implementation by TiVo can cause huge delays before you can even get to the point where skip actually does anything. That is the larger problem. TiVo has a long/bad history of anything GUI related that fetches things on their servers. If the implementation was seamless it would be a lot more tolerable.


Exactly--that's why I asked TiVo_Ted about the glitchiness originally and wanted to mention it to him. Watching the original video of pre-roll in action was like watching a somewhat painful alpha feature. And hearing about its operation since (a many-second blackscreen?) only furthers that dire condition. The TiVo Experience is not supposed to be painful.*

* Why oh why does TiVo have such a habit of releasing glitchy, alpha "features"?


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## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

Mikeguy said:


> Exactly--that's why I asked TiVo_Ted about the glitchiness originally and wanted to mention it to him. Watching the original video of pre-roll in action was like watching a somewhat painful alpha feature. And hearing about its operation since (a many-second blackscreen?) only furthers that dire condition. The TiVo Experience is not supposed to be painful.*
> 
> * Why oh why does TiVo have such a habit of releasing glitchy, alpha "features"?


Ok, I get it, sometimes when hearing the truth, it's a bit painful like when you walk into the light from being in the dark awhile. (No need to quote Plato)

Here goes...TiVo under Rovi is not a tech company. They suck at technology because that's not Rovi' thing.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Joe3 said:


> Ok, I get it, sometimes when hearing the truth, it's a bit painful like when you walk into the light from being in the dark awhile. (No need to quote Plato)
> 
> Here goes...TiVo under Rovi is not a tech company. They suck at technology because that's not Rovi' thing.


Condescension never is a particularly attractive characteristic, and rarely wins people over. 

I said "TiVo" for a reason--this is a well-established and entrenched _TiVo_-company trait.


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

krkaufman said:


> @TiVo_Ted didn't directly say this. TE3 being in maintenance mode doesn't preclude TiVo making an exception, at some point in the future, to add this new feature. All he said was that TiVo does not currently have any plans to push pre-rolls ads to TE3, with the later maintenance mode comment.


Fair enough. I was lucky enough to roll back so I just have to hope you're wrong (no offense) and that TE3 will remain in maintenance mode.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Mikeguy said:


> And this strategically having been said.


He just said it; characterizing the statement is going beyond what was said.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

krkaufman said:


> He just said it; characterizing the statement is going beyond what was said.


Yep, and in my humble opinion, he said it for a real reason rather than simply as extra words. That was my only point.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

exdishguy said:


> Fair enough. I was lucky enough to roll back so I just have to hope you're wrong (no offense) and that TE3 will remain in maintenance mode.


No offense taken not having been "wrong," since my point was merely that there is no guarantee that the ads will NOT come to TE3, not that the ads would eventually find their way to TE3.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Mikeguy said:


> Yep, and in my humble opinion, he said it for a real reason rather than simply as extra words. That was my only point.


Presuming someone else's intent is, objectively, not humble.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

krkaufman said:


> Presuming someone else's intent is, objectively, no humble.


But going by their very own words and typical expertise is, in my humble opinion.


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

moyekj said:


> I keep seeing this posted, but a larger part of the problem is the implementation by TiVo can cause huge delays before you can even get to the point where skip actually does anything. That is the larger problem. TiVo has a long/bad history of anything GUI related that fetches things on their servers. If the implementation was seamless it would be a lot more tolerable.


For the time being, since I'm still on TE3 and will remain on TE3 and Tivo doesn't have any current plans to put the ads on TE3, the pre-roll ads will have no effect on me. If there is a change and I'm forced to go to TE4 or if the ads do come to the TE3 software I'll have to evaluate how big a problem they are. I spent most of my life watching live TV then fast forwarding (relativy slowly on my VCR) before getting my Series 1 Tivo. So the pre-roll ads might be better than the alternatives to Tivo. I'll see if/when the time arrives.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

I know it is the principle of the move...but in actual everyday use case, what is the difference between skipping a pre-roll ad, and skipping a real live television ad that is recorded right before the show starts?

Again, I understand the principle of the matter...and I agree that it sucks that we purchase a lifetime subscription (or even a monthly subscription), only to have to face an additional ad that is meant to generate revenue (and SHOULD subsidize the subscription pricing)...

But from a use case perspective, how big a deal is this? (Bracing for an avalanche of passionate responses...)


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## egeek84 (Sep 19, 2019)

I downgraded to TE3 last night on my Bolt Vox and Bolt Vox Minis and I am so happy. It looks better to me and I don't have to worry about ads. Happy camper here!


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

egeek84 said:


> I downgraded to TE3 last night on my Bolt Vox and Bolt Vox Minis and I am so happy. It looks better to me and I don't have to worry about ads. Happy camper here!


Oh nice! Not being very "Bolt savvy", I didn't know that it could be downgraded to TE3...

Was Bolt always shipped with TE4, or was it originally shipped with TE3?


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

MikeekiM said:


> But from a use case perspective, how big a deal is this? (Bracing for an avalanche of passionate responses...)


For starters it doesn't support AutoSkip and reportedly (in its current form) there can be "quite" the delay waiting for the ad to be served. And to top it off attempting to manually skip the ad may cause several issues... including dropping to live TV/rebooting the device/blank screen for up to 30 seconds.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

Charles R said:


> For starters it doesn't support AutoSkip and reportedly (in its current form) there can be "quite" the delay waiting for the ad to be served. And to top it off attempting to manually skip the ad may cause several issues... including rebooting the device.


Ouch... Yeah, that's bad...

Actually, I could envision a regular problem loading up the pre-roll ad, and being faced with the blue spinning circle...and maybe it gets "stuck" there... Ugh...


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

MikeekiM said:


> I know it is the principle of the move...but in actual everyday use case, what is the difference between skipping a pre-roll ad, and skipping a real live television ad that is recorded right before the show starts?


My guide lists The Tonight Show starting at 11:34pm. Every night I record it. I get 30 to 45 seconds of commercial(s). So it's a habit to hit the SM button immediately. I can adapt.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

JoeKustra said:


> My guide lists The Tonight Show starting at 11:34pm. Every night I record it. I get 30 to 45 seconds of commercial(s). So it's a habit to hit the SM button immediately. I can adapt.


I record my local evening news at 10pm, and I also get about 20-25 seconds of commercials (very consistent). I always do a quick 30 second skip, and I miss 5-10 seconds of the news, which is usually just the intro music and flashy news logo...


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

MikeekiM said:


> Was Bolt always shipped with TE4, or was it originally shipped with TE3?


The latter. The BOLT OTA and the upcoming Edge are the only TE4-only boxes.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

MikeekiM said:


> I know it is the principle of the move...but in actual everyday use case, what is the difference between skipping a pre-roll ad, and skipping a real live television ad that is recorded right before the show starts?
> 
> Again, I understand the principle of the matter...and I agree that it sucks that we purchase a lifetime subscription (or even a monthly subscription), only to have to face an additional ad that is meant to generate revenue (and SHOULD subsidize the subscription pricing)...
> 
> But from a use case perspective, how big a deal is this? (Bracing for an avalanche of passionate responses...)


That's pretty much what TiVo_Ted said earlier, based on his own experience with the use of the pre-roll ads system. But at least part of the issue (apart from the, "I don't want any stinking ads on my box" position  ) has been the implementation, as noted above, including as a result of the pre-roll ads being streamed to the box rather than being stored locally and applied seamlessly. Watching the original video of the pre-roll ad system in action, I could just imagine the pain/non-"TiVo Experience" nature of that, especially show after show after show (I probably watch most of my OTA content as recorded, if even just a few minutes behind the transmission).


MikeekiM said:


> Oh nice! Not being very "Bolt savvy", I didn't know that it could be downgraded to TE3...
> 
> Was Bolt always shipped with TE4, or was it originally shipped with TE3?


It's not "downgraded," but "sidegraded."


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

MikeekiM said:


> Ouch... Yeah, that's bad...
> 
> Actually, I could envision a regular problem loading up the pre-roll ad, and being faced with the blue spinning circle...and maybe it gets "stuck" there... Ugh...


To clarify Charles R said, TE3 doesn't support autoskip. It does allow skip with one button press. So a really minor difference. TE3 does NOT have the pre-roll ads. There are other benefits of TE3 such as PC to Tivo transfers and a guide that most users seem to prefer.


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

egeek84 said:


> I downgraded to TE3 last night on my Bolt Vox and Bolt Vox Minis and I am so happy. It looks better to me and I don't have to worry about ads. Happy camper here!


That should be "upgraded" not "downgraded" to TE3.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

Mikeguy said:


> It's not "downgraded," but "sidegraded."


LOL... I love that... "sidegraded"... Very nice...


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

MikeekiM said:


> LOL... I love that... "sidegraded"... Very nice...


I try to be ecumenical (in both directions).


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

Mikeguy said:


> I try to be ecumenical (in both directions).


TE3 and TE4 each have different pros and cons compared to the other. Neither is clearly superior. It is really a personal choice as to which pros/cons are more important to you.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Lurker1 said:


> TE3 and TE4 each have different pros and cons compared to the other. Neither is clearly superior. It is really a personal choice as to which pros/cons are more important to you.


That's why I like the term "sidegrading" (in whichever direction).


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

bobfrank said:


> It does allow skip with one button press. So a really minor difference. TE3 does NOT have the pre-roll ads. There are other benefits of TE3 such as PC to Tivo transfers and a guide that most users seem to prefer.


Surprisingly (to me) I found AudoSkip to be a big difference - sort of the _you don't appreciate what you have until you (almost) lost it._ TE4 doesn't have pre-roll ads either with a phone call. And in a couple of decades of use I never found the "other benefits" of any benefit.


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## AntiPC (Jul 22, 2005)

I sidegraded last weekend. I tried TE4 since getting the summer sale bolt. There were a number of factors:

-Transferred recordings froze
-Box would pop up with No Internet Connection after hibernating, and I'd have to reset with thumbs down-thumbs up-play-play
-Reports of coming pre-roll ads
-Used to old interface and WAF
-Rumors of not being able to sidegrade in the future


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

AntiPC said:


> -Rumors of not being able to (rollback to TE3) in the future


This was debunked by @TiVo_Ted. See >here<.


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## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

bobfrank said:


> To clarify Charles R said, *TE3 doesn't support autoskip.* [*TE3*] *does allow skip with one button press*. *So a really minor difference.*


Keep drinking the TE3 Kool-Aid!

Auto-Skip is so well implemented that most of the time I don't even notice it. It just works. I now use my remote so infrequently that when I need it I have to look around for it.

Feel free to like and use TE3 but please stop talking about TE4 as if you use it (the latest version) daily.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

CloudAtlas said:


> Auto-Skip is so well implemented that most of the time I don't even notice it. It just works. I now use my remote so infrequently that when I need it I have to look around for it.


Which, to me, is what makes the pre-roll ads that much more annoying. Short of opting-out, you now have to have the remote handy.

A compromise, I would think, is that the pre-roll ads would NEVER be inserted before any show tagged with SkipMode data *IF* AutoSkip is enabled. So AutoSkip would effectively remain auto-skip. (There is PLENTY of content that lacks SkipMode tags.) We got a deal, @TiVo_Ted ?


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

CloudAtlas said:


> Keep drinking the TE3 Kool-Aid!
> 
> Auto-Skip is so well implemented that most of the time I don't even notice it. It just works. I now use my remote so infrequently that when I need it I have to look around for it.
> 
> ...


Why so hostile because I prefer TE3? I tried TE4 and didn't like it. Why do I have to be using TE4 daily in order to comment on the skip mode difference? In my opinion the difference between auto skip in TE4 and the need to press one button to skip in TE3 is minor. You don't. Fine. Who cares?


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

bobfrank said:


> Why so hostile because I prefer TE3? I tried TE4 and didn't like it. Why do I have to be using TE4 daily in order to comment on the skip mode difference? In my opinion the difference between auto skip in TE4 and the need to press one button to skip in TE3 is minor. You don't. Fine. Who cares?


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## compuguy (Aug 18, 2014)

CloudAtlas said:


> Keep drinking the TE3 Kool-Aid!
> 
> Auto-Skip is so well implemented that most of the time I don't even notice it. It just works. I now use my remote so infrequently that when I need it I have to look around for it.
> 
> ...


That is one of features I like about TE4. That and the traditional guide. The UI lag is annoying (there is a bit even on the bolt), but it used to be *way* worse....


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

krkaufman said:


> Which, to me, is what makes the pre-roll ads that much more annoying. Short of opting-out, you now have to have the remote handy.
> 
> A compromise, I would think, is that the pre-roll ads would NEVER be inserted before any show tagged with SkipMode data *IF* AutoSkip is enabled. So AutoSkip would effectively remain auto-skip. (There is PLENTY of content that lacks SkipMode tags.) We got a deal, @TiVo_Ted ?


Aren't they the ones that manually insert the skip tags? Wouldn't the fact that Tivo wants to sell ads be a pretty big motivator to not to insert tags?


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## Davelnlr_ (Jan 13, 2011)

Wow, surprising results. 63% are using the previous version. I really thought it would be much lower.


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## Davelnlr_ (Jan 13, 2011)

compuguy said:


> That is one of features I like about TE4. That and the traditional guide. The UI lag is annoying (there is a bit even on the bolt), but it used to be *way* worse....


The only channel I watch that got auto-skip was Comedy Central. The loss of the live guide, and the thumbs rating system is why I rolled back. I really liked the layout of TE4, and how nice it looked in 4K. It made no sense why they dumped several of the features that made Tivo different from every other DVR out there.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

exdishguy said:


> Aren't they the ones that manually insert the skip tags? Wouldn't the fact that Tivo wants to sell ads be a pretty big motivator to not to insert tags?


Yep, but what's the alternative again?


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## compuguy (Aug 18, 2014)

Davelnlr_ said:


> The only channel I watch that got auto-skip was Comedy Central. The loss of the live guide, and the thumbs rating system is why I rolled back. I really liked the layout of TE4, and how nice it looked in 4K. It made no sense why they dumped several of the features that made Tivo different from every other DVR out there.


Agreed. I don't get why they 86'ed the thumbs rating system either in TE4. I'm indifferent about the TE3 live guide. Its not like they are going to get rid of the buttons from the TiVo remote either, because they are used to acknowledge certain functions (like rebooting the box)....


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

I'll say again...the thumbs which has been there for over a DECADE, was the best feature for tivo. I used to spend hours up and down thumb programs, got my suggestions pretty good. Oh yeah! Still do! I run TE3, for thumbs, file transfer between tivos and from kmttg/desktop

Other features got removed before te4 came out. The old web/podcast stuff which recorded a podcast/web show just like a real show, complete with a season pass for it was VERY COOL!


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Charles R said:


> Not really as I'm asking about all of the above... are there different results per device? If so, what are they... thanks.


Since the OS is on flash for Roamios and Bolts, trying to put a drive that was used with TE3 back in doesn't really make a difference for the OS. Bolt's will definitely reformat any drive other than the current or a copy/clone of the current drive (related to the database moving to flash). Not sure about Roamio's though (Greg?).

Scott


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

compuguy said:


> Agreed. I don't get why they 86'ed the thumbs rating system either in TE4. I'm indifferent about the TE3 live guide. Its not like they are going to get rid of the buttons from the TiVo remote either, because they are used to acknowledge certain functions (like rebooting the box)....


They came up with a new, snazzy Suggestions system based on more complicated algorithms and which was supposed to react in a near-instantaneous manner--and which didn't work, spectacularly. And then they said that they were going to fix the system, but then dropped the ball, spectacularly (it's been more than a year-and-a-half, now), unless something is happening now. Personally, I think that they simply should have returned to what worked (and still does, under TE3), at least in the interim.


philhu said:


> I'll say again...the thumbs which has been there for over a DECADE, was the best feature for tivo. I used to spend hours up and down thumb programs, got my suggestions pretty good. Oh yeah! Still do! I run TE3, for thumbs, file transfer between tivos and from kmttg/desktop
> 
> Other features got removed before te4 came out. *The old web/podcast stuff which recorded a podcast/web show just like a real show, complete with a season pass for it was VERY COOL!*


I forgot about that feature--I discovered it just before it was closed down, boy it was_ great_! It opened up another world of show channels. I never understood why TiVo closed it down--that just limited content and did nothing positive. (The alternative is simple--watch the podcast/web shows on your PC (or you can transfer them, if you're on TE3, to your TiVo box). But the earlier system just made the collection and viewing of the shows easy and convenient.)


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

Mikeguy said:


> They came up with a new, snazzy Suggestions system based on more complicated algorithms and which was supposed to react in a near-instantaneous manner--and which didn't work, spectacularly. And then they said that they were going to fix the system, but then dropped the ball, spectacularly (it's been more than a year-and-a-half, now), unless something is happening now. Personally, I think that they simply should have returned to what worked (and still does, under TE3), at least in the interim.
> 
> I forgot about that feature--I discovered it just before it was closed down, boy it was_ great_! It opened up another world of show channels. I never understood why TiVo closed it down--that just limited content and did nothing positive. (The alternative is simple--watch the podcast/web shows on your PC (or you can transfer them, if you're on TE3, to your TiVo box). But the earlier system just made the collection and viewing of the shows easy and convenient.)


Yes suggestions thumbs and podcast record were the 2 features that put tivo above other stuff that was out there. They were real features that were unique back then


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## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

tarheelblue32 said:


> I'm just curious who is thinking about downgrading from TE4 to TE3 in light of the new pre-roll ads.


Never plan to upgrade to TE4.


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## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

I sure hope Rovi/TiVo doesn't start drilling holes in the TE3 lifeboat. Just read another article in TechHive quoting Rovi/TiVo as basically sayings and I'm "paraphrasing," We just got the deal of our lives, man. We got a real life saving deal for tickets on SS Cable Titanic. Our High School dropout administration thinks it's a cool idea. 

Oh, an a dios you stupid retail college bound nerrrds~ We're SS Cable Titanic bound!


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## gor88 (Jan 3, 2008)

I have a Bolt that is inactive now that I never upgraded to Hydra. 

Last December I bought a TiVo Roamio OTA 1GB DVR (not VOX) with all-in for $250. It came with Hydra, so I immediately Googled how to roll it back and did so before I put it in full service. I didn't like it and knew it would fail the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) test. She loved the previous interface that closely resembles the old DirecTV Series 2 TiVo SD receivers of yore.


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## sd2528 (Nov 5, 2006)

Wow. I didn't realize the Hydra numbers were that bad until seeing this poll. I know it's not scientific and subject to selection bias based on who posts here but still.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

I don't think I would have bought a Tivo to start with, if I knew they were going to insert ads.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

gor88 said:


> I have a Bolt that is inactive now that I never upgraded to Hydra.
> 
> Last December I bought a TiVo Roamio OTA 1GB DVR (not VOX) with all-in for $250. It came with Hydra, so I immediately Googled how to roll it back and did so before I put it in full service. I didn't like it and knew it would fail the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) test. She loved the previous interface that closely resembles the old DirecTV Series 2 TiVo SD receivers of yore.


You could buy a dual tuner premiere and switch back to the SD interface. I've got one running this way and it works great as a DVR with the old Tivo interface.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Guys, guys, thumb ratings? Really? Thinking for ourselves is old technology. Tivo bought Digitalsmiths (the recommendation algorithm) for $135 million, and by golly for that price they know what we want to watch more than we do! Tivo doesn't waste money and they are absolutely not shoehorning their investment into their product pipeline to justify it.

I only watch an endless stream of science, sci-fi, and superhero movies and shows, but who am I to argue when I see the Kardashians and Real Housewives on my smartbar every other day? They know what's best.


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## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

shwru980r said:


> I don't think I would have bought a Tivo to start with, if I knew they were going to insert ads.


I concur! That's a show stopper.... pun intended.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

sd2528 said:


> Wow. I didn't realize the Hydra numbers were that bad until seeing this poll. I know it's not scientific and subject to selection bias based on who posts here ...


... and further skewed/filtered by the thread title, which would tend to draw more of those disgruntled with the TE4 interface and pre-roll ads.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

sd2528 said:


> Wow. I didn't realize the Hydra numbers were that bad until seeing this poll. I know it's not scientific and subject to selection bias based on who posts here but still.


They're not. Tivo management has posted that Hydra numbers are quite good. This poll is 100 TE3 people (so far) out of millions. It's meaningless aside from the obvious fact that nobody likes forced ads, especially when we pay to use Tivo in the first place.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

mdavej said:


> They're not. Tivo management has posted that Hydra numbers are quite good. This poll is 100 TE3 people (so far) out of millions. It's meaningless aside from the obvious fact that nobody likes forced ads, especially when we pay to use Tivo in the first place.


You mean, I'm not representative? (Thank heavens.  )


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## sd2528 (Nov 5, 2006)

mdavej said:


> They're not. Tivo management has posted that Hydra numbers are quite good. This poll is 100 TE3 people (so far) out of millions. It's meaningless aside from the obvious fact that nobody likes forced ads, especially when we pay to use Tivo in the first place.


Yeah but if you don't post here, how would you know you can downgrade? Do they advertise it? The only reason I knew I could and how to do it with as little pain possible is because I knew about this place.


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## dcpmark (Feb 8, 2006)

Question...how do I know if I’m running TE3 or TE4 on my Roamio Pro and my Minis? I’m old so I may or may not have upgraded in the past. 

Thanks!


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

dcpmark said:


> Question...how do I know if I'm running TE3 or TE4 on my Roamio Pro and my Minis? I'm old so I may or may not have upgraded in the past.
> 
> Thanks!


TE3 says "TiVo Central".
TE4 says "TIVO HOME".


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## ppartekim (Jan 18, 2007)

If TE4 has ads then I guess I have never seen them or they just as easy to skip over like every other commercial ads that plastered every where one looks and therefore forgettable and unseen just more noise in the background. Forced ads like hulu or TV just means it’s time to go grab that beer/food, use the bathroom, play with the dog, etc. ..


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

ppartekim said:


> Forced ads like hulu or TV just means it's time to go grab that beer/food, use the bathroom, play with the dog, etc. ..


But that is what made TiVo great, it gave us the ability to skip over those ads and reclaim the 33% of TV viewing time that ads consumed so that we could use that time as we choose. Going back to the "just do other crap while ads are on" is a huge step backwards.


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## dcpmark (Feb 8, 2006)

Lurker1 said:


> TE3 says "TiVo Central".
> TE4 says "TIVO HOME".


Sweet! I never ugraded any of my Tivos....score one for senility!


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

dcpmark said:


> Sweet! I never ugraded any of my Tivos....score one for senility!


And my own motto is "You're only young once . . . but you can be immature forever!"


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

chiguy50 said:


> And my own motto is "You're only young once . . . but you can be immature forever!"


When people remark I look younger than I am, I say "I work really hard at not acting my age".


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## seaninde (Sep 23, 2019)

What's the difference between TE3 and TE4 everyone talks about? Is it a platform update or something? Doesn't the software just always update? Just trying to learn.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

seaninde said:


> What's the difference between TE3 and TE4 everyone talks about? Is it a platform update or something? Doesn't the software just always update? Just trying to learn.


You're buying an Edge as your first TiVo, right? So you'll have TE4 with no possibility of downgrading (or sidegrading, as folks like to say here) to TE3.

TE4 is TiVo Experience 4, a.k.a. Hydra, a.k.a. Mira, the latest user interface. Many of us prefer keeping Tivo Experience 3 for features lost in TE4 like one of our favorite Guide formats, and to avoid the new pre-roll advertisements in TE4 (in case some cannot call TiVo to opt-out of those) among other things. The "sidegrade" and upgrade can be done manually on older units, and there are instructions on that in other threads here.

But you needn't worry about any of that, and can just focus on how much better your new Edge will be compared to your regular old cable box. Looking forward to seeing your review.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

seaninde said:


> What's the difference between TE3 and TE4 everyone talks about? Is it a platform update or something? Doesn't the software just always update? Just trying to learn.


TE4 is an optional software/UI upgrade for Roamio and BOLT DVRs (and their connected Minis), though the BOLT OTA and new Edge series are TE4-only boxes. Premiere and earlier DVRs are not eligible for TE4.

See this post for an attempt at summarizing the pros & cons.


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## dcpmark (Feb 8, 2006)

dcpmark said:


> Sweet! I never upgraded any of my Tivos....score one for senility!


Actually, thanks to the above post, now I remember why I didn't upgrade.....no Live Guide with TE4. That is a 100% showstopper for me....it's my absolute favorite feature of Tivo. Pretty much every other feature has been replicated by the competition, as far as I can tell.


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## zubinh (Jun 7, 2004)

Ironically, one week after the pre-roll ads were confirmed, I moved to TE4 from TE3. When I get the pre-roll ads, I'll just call to opt out. I really like TE4. Its got a fresh, modern UI and Auto Skip is great. I never cared for the live guide or the Thumbs feature in TE3.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I fired up my last Lifetime Premiere this morning. I really hate messing with TE3. But that is what my GF uses. So I will be swapping out her rarely used lifetime Roamio OTA, with my lifetime Premiere. Then I will put the lifetime Roamio OTA in place of the $6.95 a month ROamio BAsic I've had since the Roamio launch. And then I will cancel service on the ROamio Basic.
And of course, switch the ROamio OTA over to TE4.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> A compromise, I would think, is that the pre-roll ads would NEVER be inserted before any show tagged with SkipMode data *IF* AutoSkip is enabled. So AutoSkip would effectively remain auto-skip. (There is PLENTY of content that lacks SkipMode tags.) We got a deal, @TiVo_Ted ?


And how about a rewards program, where we earn points for not skipping ads, then can use those points to acquire credits towards the associated streaming services?


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## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

This "scientific" poll Suggests that the Majority of Tivo Users do NOT seem to like TE4...LIKE ME. 

I wonder why? LOL


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

WHy did the 47% never upgrade to TE4? FOr instance my GF never has because she doesn't like change. SHe was dragged kicking and screaming from the SDUI to TE3. After that she liked TE3 better. And she seems to like TE4, when she is at my place using it. But, again, she doesn't like to change things up. So she will probably stick with TE3 until she is forced to change.


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## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

aaronwt said:


> WHy did the 47% never upgrade to TE4? FOr instance my GF never has because she doesn't like change. SHe was dragged kicking and screaming from the SDUI to TE3. After that she liked TE3 better. And she seems to like TE4, when she is at my place using it. But, again, she doesn't like to change things up. So she will probably stick with TE3 until she is forced to change.


I don't like STUPID TILES and I NEED my Live Guide and Screw them for taking the NORMAL transfer procedures away and the PUSH. I would love to have the supposed audio cutout fixed and Maybe the voice, BUT NO. Also I like the way your GF thinks about this topic! 

I think you should get paid for Promoting TE4, SINCE YOU ALWAYS DO!!!


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## muzzymate (Sep 2, 2004)

Sorry if this is answered elsewhere, but can I run TE4 on my Bolt DVR while the attached Minis are on TE3? The WAF doesn't like the idea of the ads but doesn't like the idea of losing all the recordings either.


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## longrider (Oct 26, 2017)

muzzymate said:


> Sorry if this is answered elsewhere, but can I run TE4 on my Bolt DVR while the attached Minis are on TE3? The WAF doesn't like the idea of the ads but doesn't like the idea of losing all the recordings either.


Sorry, the minis have to match the DVR.


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## dadrepus (Jan 4, 2012)

So, I just set up Pihole on an old Raspberry Pi I had laying around. It is working as my DNS server and is suppose to block ads coming into my house. So far on websites I see a lot of blank spots that used to be filled with ads. I now wish I hadn't down graded just to see if it would work for Tivo. Well too late I guess. Not moving back up, my wife prefers te3. Anybody else game to try it? Pretty simple install if you have a Pi. You just need to give it a static IP from your router or at least a reservation which for practical purposes is the same.


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## dadrepus (Jan 4, 2012)

samccfl99 said:


> This "scientific" poll Suggests that the Majority of Tivo Users do NOT seem to like TE4...LIKE ME.
> 
> I wonder why? LOL


What this poll tells me is not many of the millions of Tivo owners care enough to participate in this poll.


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

The ads were the catalyst but the removal of useful suggestions and the inability to transfer from my series 3 write are things I missed from the old software and will be nice to have back.


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## Rey (Oct 6, 2015)

What did me in was the sh*t in the guide. I tried but couldn't get over it. So after a year with hydra I went back to TE3. Wish I would've done it sooner as overall the roamio pro works better.


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## lhvetinari (Jun 24, 2019)

aaronwt said:


> WHy did the 47% never upgrade to TE4? FOr instance my GF never has because she doesn't like change. SHe was dragged kicking and screaming from the SDUI to TE3. After that she liked TE3 better. And she seems to like TE4, when she is at my place using it. But, again, she doesn't like to change things up. So she will probably stick with TE3 until she is forced to change.


For me, it's just that /little bit/ slower, and it throws me off.

A page down in the TE3 guide is instant, a page down in the TE4 guide does the cool looking scroll animation, and then takes half a second for the new guide data to fill in.

Deleting items en-masse (important with suggestions on) can be accomplished with the clear button on TE3. Doing this in TE4 allows you to delete 2-4 items at once - you can then either give it 2-5 seconds to delete them and catch up or press Clear a few more times and the UI locks up entirely and dumps you back to the home screen.

Changing menu screens gives the cool animation - but then the new menu items take a half second to fill in, like the guide. Animations should hide loading, not load the data after the animation.

Note that this happens on my Roamio Plus and Bolt alike, so it's not just the older box.

That being said, I'd /almost/ take TE4 back just for the ability to watch something on my Mini while bollocking around in the menus.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

aaronwt said:


> WHy did the 47% never upgrade to TE4? FOr instance my GF never has because she doesn't like change. SHe was dragged kicking and screaming from the SDUI to TE3. After that she liked TE3 better. And she seems to like TE4, when she is at my place using it. But, again, she doesn't like to change things up. So she will probably stick with TE3 until she is forced to change.


When TE4 came out, I knew it would probably be riddled with bugs at first, because, well, this is TiVo we're talking about. So I knew I wasn't going to upgrade right away. So I waited. And as the months went by and people on here talked about what they liked and didn't like about TE4, I just realized that there were more things about TE4 than I would dislike than like, so I just never upgraded.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

tarheelblue32 said:


> When TE4 came out, I knew it would probably be riddled with bugs at first, because, well, this is TiVo we're talking about. So I knew I wasn't going to upgrade right away. So I waited. And as the months went by and people on here talked about what they liked and didn't like about TE4, I just realized that there were more things about TE4 than I would dislike than like, so I just never upgraded.


The poll doesn't care about me since I have both. True, I mostly use TE3, and used TE4 more at first, but now it's just there, running, hosting a Mini VOX and keeping my room warmer. I feel I can't complain about TE4 if I don't have it. It's like not voting but complaining about D.C.. Same with the Bolt. I don't have one, so I keep my opinions to myself.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

JoeKustra said:


> The poll doesn't care about me since I have both. True, I mostly use TE3, and used TE4 more at first, but now it's just there, running, hosting a Mini VOX and keeping my room warmer. I feel I can't complain about TE4 if I don't have it. It's like not voting but complaining about D.C.. Same with the Bolt. I don't have one, so I keep my opinions to myself.


So you just have a Mini Vox running TE4, but no host DVR running TE4 that you can even use it with? You should at least unplug it to stop wasting electricity then.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

tarheelblue32 said:


> So you just have a Mini Vox running TE4, but no host DVR running TE4 that you can even use it with? You should at least unplug it to stop wasting electricity then.


Sorry if I wasn't clear. I have a Roamio TE4 host running all the time. It has about 2TB of movies on it and I could move programs with SM to it, but it's not worth the effort. When the bugs are all fixed )) I'll add a cable card to the host. I do get two clear QAM channels, so I can watch it's video performance.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

aaronwt said:


> WHy did the 47% never upgrade to TE4? FOr instance my GF never has because she doesn't like change. SHe was dragged kicking and screaming from the SDUI to TE3. After that she liked TE3 better. And she seems to like TE4, when she is at my place using it. But, again, she doesn't like to change things up. So she will probably stick with TE3 until she is forced to change.


It seems to me like the change is not as drastic between the SDUI and TE3 as it is between TE3 and TE4. I prefer the SDUI on a Premiere because the menus seem more responsive and the apps are too slow and unresponsive on TE3.


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