# RGB to Component Converter options...



## The Obo (Feb 22, 2005)

I have just purchased a new plasma and after reading various threads here have decided that feeding the plasma from the Tivo via Component is the best option.

I'd like some advice on which is the best value piece of kit to do this...

These are the options I am looking at:

_1. QED QCV RGB Scart to Component Video Converter_ (£70)
http://www.avland.co.uk/qed/qcv/qcv.htm

_2. Keene RGB to Component Transcoder _ (£72 on eBay)
http://www.av-sales.com/K-APTUS1-139-30.htm

This would plug directly into the back of the Tivo - probably not a very good idea...

_3. Maplin Electronics SCART to Y-U-V Convertor _ (£79.99)
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=35810&TabID=1&source=23&doy=9m3

_4. J.S Technology RGB to Component (YUV) Video Converter_ (£145)
http://www.js-technology.com/produc...id=36&osCsid=f8e901699d1ad23535ded549fd40bb84

Has anyone had any experience with any or all of these?
Is there any difference between them? If so, what?
(other than the JS Technology box also passes through the sound - which I don't need anyway)

Thanks for your help!!


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## nathan (Feb 18, 2002)

I'm reasonably sure that 1) and 3) are the same thing - a CYP box that can be found cheaper here:

http://www.threedoubleyou.com/otherconverters.htm

I've got one connected to a series 5 Panny plasma. No complaints on the picture quality from me.


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## The Obo (Feb 22, 2005)

Thanks Nathan - I thought 1 & 3 looked like the same thing - I was probably gonna order option 1 - you just saved me a tenner - Cheers!

unless anyone else has a better buy or reason to choose something different?


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

Some Plasma (Panasonic series 7 I think being case in point) to can feed the TiVo SCART R,G and B into the VGA 15pin input to get the best "unprocessed" connection and the sync in via the component/RGB board. Alter settings in setup to allow this.

The RGB in via the VGA is much cripser than that of the component/RGB board.

In older/other panels you had to by a little box that converted the composite sync from SCART to seperate VSYNC/HSYNC for the VGA input.


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## The Obo (Feb 22, 2005)

Thanks Ian... I think 

The plasma in question is a TH42PWD7 (series 7 I assume)

I don't quite understand what you're saying here though...

I am hoping to feed all my components through my Denon amp to the screen via Component (the AMP has 3 component inputs)

I read somewhere that you can switch the Panasonic input board from Component to RGB, but thought this would be a pain to do everytime I changed inputs...

Does the RGB - VGA solution you mention require a box similar to the RGB-Component boxes below? or just a cable? How exactly would this work?


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## swarrans (Jan 7, 2003)

I have a Panny PW6 and use the JS Technology RGB to component converter that then goes into my Denon amp (along with another component input from my DVD player). I then use a Van Damme component cable from the Denon to the VGA socket on the plasma - very neat and very good picture quality. I haven't tried the other convertors but if you believe the AV Forums the JS Tech one is much better than the others (and more expensive of course!).
Beware however, because I don't think the PW7 can accept a component input via the VGA socket (PW6 and PW8 do though!) so you would need a component input module for your panel.
If you fancy spending hours researching the options the AV Forums are the place to go...

Simon


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## The Obo (Feb 22, 2005)

Thanks Simon.... now I'm getting very confused!  

Luckily my PW7 came with a free Component board so it's no more expense...

The whole RGB - Component - VGA discussion is getting me in spin!


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## thechachman (Nov 28, 2004)

The PW6 series can accept RGB/YUV via the VGA port but the PW7 series cannot.

The JS tech scart to component box can be gotten 'gently used' on AVf for £75-80 usually


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## sanderton (Jan 4, 2002)

You can hack the TiVo to output component natively I believe.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=230291&highlight=sdi


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## The Obo (Feb 22, 2005)

sanderton said:


> You can hack the TiVo to output component natively I believe.


Yes, I have read this but sounds like a nightmare to get working...

I've had another thought:

As my DVD player has the option to output RGB or YUV via component output.... and my plasma has the option to accept RGB or YUV via the component input, can't I just run RGB everywhere?

I'd need a SCART to RGB phono lead from Tivo to my amp (which I can't seem to find anywhere!) and then my amp would pass through RGB rather than YUV

Would this work? 
Has anyone tried it?
Anyone know where to get a SCART RGB to 3-point phono lead?
What about the RGB Sync?


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## The Obo (Feb 22, 2005)

thechachman said:


> The JS tech scart to component box can be gotten 'gently used' on AVf for £75-80 usually


"Usually?"... Where exactly would I look for that?


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

thechachman said:


> The PW6 series can accept RGB/YUV via the VGA port but the PW7 series cannot.


Incorrect. With the PW7 series, as is sitting on the floor behind me at work, you can select RGB or Component via the VGA PC input. Selecting component input from a display engine PC makes for great effects whilst DVD watching!!!!


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

The Obo said:


> I'd need a SCART to RGB phono lead from Tivo to my amp (which I can't seem to find anywhere!) and then my amp would pass through RGB rather than YUV


What about this from Maplin
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?criteria=L91BA&DOY=10m3

SCART to 6 phono.

Even better would be to find a SCART out to phono only, they used to do them as I had one to connect my DVD player to my old TV via the phono RGB inputs.


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## The Obo (Feb 22, 2005)

Ian_m said:


> What about this from Maplin
> http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?criteria=L91BA&DOY=10m3
> 
> SCART to 6 phono.
> ...


Looks like this will do the trick nicely: 

http://www.keene.co.uk/pages/cat/11lea/11F.html (See Item KLD160)

As it's only £15 I think I'll give it a go and try sending everything RGB to the Panasonic component board via the Denon Amp.

If it doesn't work, or the DVD quality is not as good with RGB compared to component (which it shouldn't be) then I'll look into the RGB - Component converter...


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## nathan (Feb 18, 2002)

The Obo said:


> Looks like this will do the trick nicely:
> 
> http://www.keene.co.uk/pages/cat/11lea/11F.html (See Item KLD160)
> 
> ...


Be a good chap and post back here with your findings please. If it works I'll try one with my series 5 plasma, getting rid of an extraneous box would make the spagetti cabling I've got at the moment a little simpler.


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## The Obo (Feb 22, 2005)

nathan said:


> Be a good chap and post back here with your findings please. If it works I'll try one with my series 5 plasma, getting rid of an extraneous box would make the spagetti cabling I've got at the moment a little simpler.


Sure thing.

It'll probably be end of next week by the time I get all the pieces delivered and put together....


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

Its the Keene Syncblaster range that allows you to input SCART to the VGA connector and Plasmas, thus getting getter quality than the RGB input. Also gets round the issue of Macrovision messing up Plasma displays. Why Plasma manufacturers can't design a decent RGB SCART input I don't know. Mind you it keeps Keene etc in business.

If you want to make your own its a LM1881
http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM1881-X.html
It takes composite sync from the SCART and converts it to 5V VSYNC and HSYNC for the VGA input.


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## The Obo (Feb 22, 2005)

The Obo said:


> If it doesn't work, or the DVD quality is not as good with RGB compared to component (which it shouldn't be) then I'll look into the RGB - Component converter...


More thoughts...

1. If I go down this "RGB everywhere" route and use RGB from the DVD player instead of Component - will I lose Progressive Scan?

2. Could/Should I use a cable like this: (Is this what you mean Ian_m?)
http://keene.co.uk/pages/cat/12ada/12F.html (Item SBB401)
to feed the RGB to the plasma's VGA Input rather than the (free) component board?

I suppose I could send the Tivo to the VGA port via RGB and the DVD to the Component board using Component (progressive scan) BUT I'd really prefer the Amp to do the switching rather than having to switch input on the TV AND the Amp (for sound) every time I change imputs....

options... options....


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## swarrans (Jan 7, 2003)

1. Yes, progressive scan is only relevant to component. However, it's not a "given" that sending your plasma a progressive scan component signal will be better than an non-progressive component one - it depends whether it's your DVD player or plasma that has the best de-interlacing electronics. You might not see much if any difference to RGB even (although mine was noticeably better with component)

I personally doubt your amp can switch an RGB signal using the inputs designed for component, but I'm happy to be proved wrong!

If you end up buying a 2nd hand JS RGB to component converter and switch through your amp I'm sure you'll be very happy with the results and ease of use - I am!

Simon


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## The Obo (Feb 22, 2005)

sanderton said:


> You can hack the TiVo to output component natively I believe.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=230291&highlight=sdi


Do you know if this actually works?
The thread seems come to an end without actually succeeding....


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## The Obo (Feb 22, 2005)

swarrans said:


> I personally doubt your amp can switch an RGB signal using the inputs designed for component, but I'm happy to be proved wrong!


I'm pretty sure it can - it just passes the signal straight through!



swarrans said:


> If you end up buying a 2nd hand JS RGB to component converter and switch through your amp I'm sure you'll be very happy with the results and ease of use - I am!


Yeah, I think this is where I'll end up (gonna try the "all RGB" option first though) - any idea where I could get a 2nd hand JS converter?


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

The Obo said:


> 2. Could/Should I use a cable like this: (Is this what you mean Ian_m?)
> http://keene.co.uk/pages/cat/12ada/12F.html (Item SBB401)
> to feed the RGB to the plasma's VGA Input rather than the (free) component board?


Yes this will connect to a Plasma fine but your source needs Sync on G, which is what the RGsB means and why its only got 3 phonos. TiVo, DVD's etc etc do not generally output sync on green.

The Syncblaster takes the SCART RGB (and sync from composite) and converts to RGB (actually passes through) and TTL level HSYNC and VSYNC for feeding to a Plasma.


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## nathan (Feb 18, 2002)

If you feel the need to try the Keene Syncblaster, let me know as I have one spare looking for a good home. I switched to component recently as I wanted to free up my VGA input for a HTPC (hence I bought a CYP box).


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## swarrans (Jan 7, 2003)

The Obo said:


> I'm pretty sure it can - it just passes the signal straight through!


I think it might be the sync signal that may cause a problem, but it'll be an interesting experiment!

Simon


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## Fozzie (Sep 3, 2001)

As a quick aside, is there any point in using an external box to convert TiVo's RGB to YUV before feeding it in to my Pio 436? Unless I'm missing something, it seems an additional unnecessary conversion; rather to just feed the display RGB and let it do any conversion.

I can understand converting to YUV before feeding an external scaler, but not if it's going straight to the display.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

The problem with RGB is that many display manufacturers seem to be incapable of implementing a good RGB input to their hardware. 

While, in theory, there's no reason why RGB should be inferior to YUV (and you could argue that it should be better), in practice, the same signal converted to YUV and fed in via the Component inputs often looks so much better that it's worth the extra expense.


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## katman (Jun 4, 2002)

blindlemon said:


> The problem with RGB is that many display manufacturers seem to be incapable of implementing a good RGB input to their hardware.


Which is crazy because Red, Green and Blue are the primary colours of light and RGB signals are ultimately what drive the display irrespective of what type of input is fed into it !!!


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

blindlemon said:


> The problem with RGB is that many display manufacturers seem to be incapable of implementing a good RGB input to their hardware.


Which is why all these people go to the effort of inputting SCART RGB signals via the panels VGA input (via Syncblaster) or convert to YUV component. Does seem crazy...


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## mista_c (Aug 2, 2003)

I am currently awaiting delivery of a HDTV LCD Samsung LE32R41BDX, and whilst I expect no problems when watching HDTV, have heard that the TV's scart RGB input is not too good. Seeing as its possible for Tivo to be hacked to output component, would one of these £6 adapters here suffice?


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## The Obo (Feb 22, 2005)

mista_c said:


> I am currently awaiting delivery of a HDTV LCD Samsung LE32R41BDX, and whilst I expect no problems when watching HDTV, have heard that the TV's scart RGB input is not too good. Seeing as its possible for Tivo to be hacked to output component, would one of these £6 adapters here suffice?


Unfortunately not.... if only it was that simple!

As the item says:
"This adapter is bi-directional but will only work with a scart that supports component video. RGB and component are not the same and this adapter will not allow connection of an RGB signal to component.
These adapters may be used with an RGB scart switch to turn it into a component video switch."

If you read my original post at the top - there are 4 different brands of RGB-Component adapters to get you started....


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## mista_c (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh well! Didn't think it would be that easy but thanks for confirming.

My LCD TV has arrived today and am not that happy with the PQ through the rgb scart input. If I want to go via component, I guess I'll probably be going for one of the CYP adapters. Users on the AV Forums all give the JS Tech convertor the thumbs up, but cannot find comparisons anywhere between this and the CYP/QED/maplin adapters. 

My LE32R41BDX TV has a PC VGA input but have no idea whether or not I could take this route instead...


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

mista_c said:


> My LCD TV has arrived today and am not that happy with the PQ through the rgb scart input. If I want to go ....


Are you sure its not just because its an LCD TV. My mate got an £1500 Sony 32" LCD, got it home, set it up next to his old 28" Sony CRT TV, big mistake. You really see how poor the LCD is on the same source (Sky in his case) compared to CRT. One poor point was viewing angle being significantly less, so poor that in his room the picture was not visible/watchable in two of the seats. Anyway it went back ot Sony shop no questions asked..


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

I wouldn't expect the difference between RGB and Component to make a significant difference. After all - if you are feeding it via Freeview, Sky or Cable the feed TO the Tivo will be RGB. If you are feeding the Tivo composite or using the internal PAL tuner - then you're stuffed by a composite link upstream anyway.

The difference between RGB and Component in quality terms is pretty minimal - it is just a slight colour space conversion and will be minimal. 

LCDs can show up highly compressed MPEG artefacts significantly more than CRTs - partially because MPEG2 was slightly optimised for interlaced displays.

Are you running Tivo on BEST rather than MEDIUM, and have you done all the resolution tweaks on Tivo? I certainly saw the difference between these even on a CRT display.


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## mista_c (Aug 2, 2003)

Thanks for your replies. The LCD was certainly a bit of a shock compared to my sony CRT, but after viewing again this morning I am a bit more accustomed and was reasonably happy with the PQ. It doesn't help that I am viewing the 32" set from 7ft away, perhaps I should've gone for a smaller screen

Have hacked my Tivo and is running in Best mode, but may try cranking these settings up to see if I can make any improvements. Have never been that bothered by the resulting white flashes that occasionally appear at the bottom of the screen.

If the pq difference between rgb and component would be marginal (for my rgb freeview to tivo setup) , then I think I'll hold off from buying a component adapter. Longer term I am probably heading towards building a HTPC anyway, hopefully to record HDTV off of Freesat(?). In the meantime, will be receiving a Snazio 1350 Network player tomorrow, so am looking forward to viewing the TV in 720p and 1080i.

Cheers


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

Having long been a lover of CRT monitors and TVs I was surprised (and a little amused) to see that Samsung are about to launch a 32" HD compatible CRT TV in the UK for £350
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/03/13/samsung_hd_ready_crt_tv/

(BTW very proud of all the abreviations in that post  )


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

AMc said:


> Having long been a lover of CRT monitors and TVs I was surprised (and a little amused) to see that Samsung are about to launch a 32" HD compatible CRT TV in the UK for £350
> http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/03/13/samsung_hd_ready_crt_tv/
> 
> (BTW very proud of all the abreviations in that post  )


Yep - HD compatible not "HD Ready" I suspect. AIUI they don't have 720/50p or HDMI compatibility? (Not sure they even have 1080/60i compatibility - which is an issue if you have an XBox 360)

The Samsungs slim-tube system also has a reputation for pretty poor geometry. It is a real shame - I'd love to be able to buy a decent HD CRT display - and Samsung seem to be one of the few companies acknowledging there is a market for these.


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

mista_c said:


> Thanks for your replies. The LCD was certainly a bit of a shock compared to my sony CRT, but after viewing again this morning I am a bit more accustomed and was reasonably happy with the PQ. It doesn't help that I am viewing the 32" set from 7ft away, perhaps I should've gone for a smaller screen
> 
> Have hacked my Tivo and is running in Best mode, but may try cranking these settings up to see if I can make any improvements. Have never been that bothered by the resulting white flashes that occasionally appear at the bottom of the screen.
> 
> ...


Yep - a PC solution for Freeview is a good idea - as you avoid a second MPEG2 process if you can record and replay the Freeview stream directly.

Media Center is actually quite good in this application.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

The Register said:


> The 32in telly has two key features: it's far slimmer than conventional CRTs and - crucially - it's * HD Ready *.
> <snip>
> It's ready to go with an HDMI connector on the back, and presumably there'll be the usual array of SCART and s-video connectors too. Samsung didn't say what the maximum resolution is, but other HD CRTs it's offered elsewhere go up to 1080i.


Could be good - just interesting to see one of the big LCD manufacturers following a slightly different path. Not the Register are doing more than requoting a press release but interesting none the less.


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

Aah - hadn't spotted it was HD-Ready, that is an improvement on their current HD CRTs, which are 1080/50i HD Component only - with no 60Hz HD or 720p compatibility, and no HDMI.

If they've sorted the lousy geometry then that could be very encouraging.


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## sanderton (Jan 4, 2002)

I'm in Hannover at CeBit and have seen the HD Ready Samsung CRT this afternoon.

Pic quality was pretty damn good. Not as pixel sharp as LCD of course, but no visible digital artifacts either.

You pays your money...


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## katman (Jun 4, 2002)

> The 32in telly has two key features: it's far slimmer than conventional CRTs and - crucially - it's HD Ready .


Isnt that just bloody typical !!!!!

I finally replace my 13 year old Mitsubishi AV28 because for the last year is has had a non repairable fault with the E-W correction circuit (part no longer available). The picture was severly bowed but increasing the width enabled the picture to fill the screen. The downside was that menus at the top and bottom of the screen lost some of the text. Wasnt too bad on Tivo but was awful on SKY+

After looking round at LCD and Plasma I was unhappy with the picture quality on them and the fact that they are still too expensive.

I settled on a 32" JVC. Beautiful set with 3 SCARTs, 2 of which are RGB capable. I looked at the Samsung 32" sets but they didnt have the same connectivity.

My setup is now

DVD--> SKY+ ---> AV1 RGB
SKY--> Tivo ---> DVD Recorder ---> AV2 RGB
Xbox ---> AV3 S-Video

I am extremely please with the JVC but isnt it just typical that after waiting so long to buy a new set, something else is about to appear.

I decided that I HAD to buy a new set now as all the shops are dropping CRT from their stock and only selling LCD and Plasma.

One thing that I did notice when looking around was that ALL the LCD and Plasma were being driven with Component/DVI/HDMI from demo discs with very carefully selected content that minimised any artifacts whereas all the CRT sets were fed RF from an instore promotional DVD and generally looked awful.

IMHO the pictures on my new CRT are much better than any of the flat panels I saw on display and it was only £349  

Perhaps I ought to buy another TiVo then they will launch a new UK model


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## Sneals2000 (Aug 25, 2002)

sanderton said:


> I'm in Hannover at CeBit and have seen the HD Ready Samsung CRT this afternoon.
> 
> Pic quality was pretty damn good. Not as pixel sharp as LCD of course, but no visible digital artifacts either.
> 
> You pays your money...


How was the geometry, or was the material quite flattering ? (No horizontals and verticals, and no bright and dark areas at the same time - to highlight poor EHT handling)


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## simon (Oct 7, 2002)

sanderton said:


> You can hack the TiVo to output component natively I believe.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=230291&highlight=sdi


Thanks for the pointer - my new HDTV arrived on Friday, and I spent Friday afternoon getting Mode 0 working, and then soldering up a SCART for component, plugged it in, and voila - component out (albeit in funny colour)

Then a few iicsetw commands and the color is fixed (I think its fixed, my wife is the colour expert, and she is happy...)

I found the common iicsetw setting oversaturated the red, so I used the following: 
# Setup output to give component over SCART
/var/hack/bin/iicsetw 0x8C 0x3A 15
/var/hack/bin/iicsetw 0x8C 0x2D 63
# Correct luminance and colour
/var/hack/bin/iicsetw 0x8C 0x38 30 
/var/hack/bin/iicsetw 0x8C 0x39 16

I will be tuning these to get them perfected - I didn't get a chance to play eternally because my wife said if I changed them once more she'd break my fingers. (while she was watching tv, and after i put the test card up)

S.


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