# Comcast COE credit change (and other pricing changes)



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Just received our current Comcast bill and they included a handful of pricing changes. The 2 that caught my eye that are directly TiVo related is the COE credit changing from $2.50 to $5.00 and Service to additional TV with CableCARD changing from $7.27 to $4.95. The COE credit corresponds with a price increase for "TV box" from $2.50 to $4.60 (although interesting that they didn't make it the same which I think is what they are legally required to do).

The other ugly increases are Broadcast TV Fee is going up from $10 to $12, Regional Sports Fee is going up from $3.60 to $3.90 and Internet is going up $3 across the board. Starz is dropping from $12.00 to $8.99.

Scott


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## smark (Nov 20, 2002)

HerronScott said:


> Just received our current Comcast bill and they included a handful of pricing changes. The 2 that caught my eye that are directly TiVo related is the COE credit changing from $2.50 to $5.00 and Service to additional TV with CableCARD changing from $7.27 to $4.95. The COE credit corresponds with a price increase for "TV box" from $2.50 to $4.60 (although interesting that they didn't make it the same which I think is what they are legally required to do).
> 
> The other ugly increases are Broadcast TV Fee is going up from $10 to $12, Regional Sports Fee is going up from $3.60 to $3.90 and Internet is going up $3 across the board. Starz is dropping from $12.00 to $8.99.
> 
> Scott


It's not the same as you are forgetting the remote rental.


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## schatham (Mar 17, 2007)

Are you saying we go from ($2.50) to $5.00 for 1 primary cable card.
That's a $7.50 increase.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

schatham said:


> Are you saying we go from ($2.50) to $5.00 for 1 primary cable card.
> That's a $7.50 increase.





HerronScott said:


> the COE credit changing from $2.50 to $5.00


No, I said the *credit* goes from $2.50 to $5.00 and of course as with any Comcast costs, YMMV depending on your local franchise and region. 

Scott


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

My NEW RATE CARD is dated 12/20 and reflects the changes mentioned. If you're a Comcast/Xfinity customer your 'most current' rate card should be available from your account information page.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

HerronScott said:


> The other ugly increases are Broadcast TV Fee is going up from $10 to $12, Regional Sports Fee is going up from $3.60 to $3.90


Here in New England, the Broadcast Fee went from $10 to $14.95 and Sports went from $8.25 to $8.75.
$23 for Local Channels and one sports channel! I get more locals with my antenna for FREE!

And, the interesting thing about the Customer Owned Equipment (COE) credit is that they were just recently offering a LOWER price for TV and with faster Internet, taking away the COE credit. So they have essentially taken away the credit they are now increasing.

This is why I just dumped cable TV. At least there is still a good deal for the cheapest Internet $49.95 for 25Mbps. (No fees or taxes.)


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

pl1 said:


> Here in New England, the Broadcast Fee went from $10 to $14.95 and Sports went from $8.25 to $8.75.
> $23 for Local Channels and one sports channel! I get more locals with my antenna for FREE!
> 
> And, the interesting thing about the Customer Owned Equipment (COE) credit is that they were just recently offering a LOWER price for TV and with faster Internet, taking away the COE credit. So they have essentially taken away the credit they are now increasing.
> ...


the rate card from our market is a bit different:








with a multiple product discount listed individually (my triple-play actually has an even bigger discount than listed here, it was a (grandfathered) competitive offer vs. wow):


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## spiderpumpkin (Dec 1, 2017)

Nice, that means I'll be getting two cable cards for free. First one for my Tivo is free and my HDHR Prime card will be free after $10 credit.


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## schatham (Mar 17, 2007)

pl1 said:


> Here in New England, the Broadcast Fee went from $10 to $14.95 and Sports went from $8.25 to $8.75.
> $23 for Local Channels and one sports channel! I get more locals with my antenna for FREE!
> 
> And, the interesting thing about the Customer Owned Equipment (COE) credit is that they were just recently offering a LOWER price for TV and with faster Internet, taking away the COE credit. So they have essentially taken away the credit they are now increasing.
> ...


I'm in MA and have not seen this yet. I thought Starter $49.99 internet was only 10mb. If it's now 25mb I might get that and drop cable also.

Edit: I just went to Comcast and checked, they did raise them, but I have not received a bill with the new rates yet. I guess my next one will.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

pl1 said:


> Here in New England, the Broadcast Fee went from $10 to $14.95 and Sports went from $8.25 to $8.75.
> $23 for Local Channels and one sports channel! I get more locals with my antenna for FREE!
> 
> And, the interesting thing about the Customer Owned Equipment (COE) credit is that they were just recently offering a LOWER price for TV and with faster Internet, taking away the COE credit. So they have essentially taken away the credit they are now increasing.
> ...


Hmm, I just checked latest, seems there is no customer owned equipment credit now. So bill going up (two cable cards, $5 COE credit gone, $10 for the second card billed as "additional outlet"). Maybe since they want to dump cable cards, don't want anyone to hang on to them for credits  Regardless just another way for my favorite company to raise a "commitment" contract price, legally I suppose. They probably have to raise prices to pay their lawyers to make sure all their "fees" and price increases are legal.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

schatham said:


> I'm in MA and have not seen this yet. I thought Starter $49.99 internet was only 10mb. If it's now 25mb I might get that and drop cable also.
> 
> Edit: I just went to Comcast and checked, they did raise them, but I have not received a bill with the new rates yet. I guess my next one will.


The speed is now 25Mbps, as verified at my house.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

tommage1 said:


> Hmm, I just checked latest, seems there is no customer owned equipment credit now. So bill going up (two cable cards, $5 COE credit gone, $10 for the second card billed as "additional outlet"). Maybe since they want to dump cable cards, don't want anyone to hang on to them for credits  Regardless just another way for my favorite company to raise a "commitment" contract price, legally I suppose. They probably have to raise prices to pay their lawyers to make sure all their "fees" and price increases are legal.


They have to offer a COE credit for any service that includes Comcast-provided equipment. Does your $10 ADO rate not include a Comcast box? If it does and you are using a CableCARD instead. they have to give you a COE credit equal to the rate they charge for the box alone. For us that has been $2.50 for the box, but this rate increase takes the box charge to $4.60 so the COE credit has to increase.

Scott


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

HerronScott said:


> They have to offer a COE credit for any service that includes Comcast-provided equipment.


I was always getting a COE credit until recently when I changed my double play plan and I was told that my Internet speed would increase and I would lose my COE. Here is my current bill before I went to Internet only. If you are correct, then they are violating their agreement.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

pl1 said:


> I was always getting a COE credit until recently when I changed my double play plan and I was told that my Internet speed would increase and I would lose my COE. Here is my current bill before I went to Internet only. If you are correct, then they are violating their agreement.


Check and see if your Double Play package is supposed to include equipment. We're still on a discounted legacy one, but looking at our current rate chart which also has the package that you are subscribed to now, it doesn't actually mention anywhere that it includes hardware and has the following note.










This is why you wouldn't get a COE credit if that's the case.

Scott


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

HerronScott said:


> Check and see if your Double Play package is supposed to include equipment. We're still on a discounted legacy one, but looking at our current rate chart which also has the package that you are subscribed to now, it doesn't actually mention anywhere that it includes hardware and has the following note.
> 
> View attachment 45383
> 
> ...


That is probably why.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

HerronScott said:


> They have to offer a COE credit for any service that includes Comcast-provided equipment. Does your $10 ADO rate not include a Comcast box? If it does and you are using a CableCARD instead. they have to give you a COE credit equal to the rate they charge for the box alone. For us that has been $2.50 for the box, but this rate increase takes the box charge to $4.60 so the COE credit has to increase.
> 
> Scott


They ended up putting the $5 COE back, not sure what the delay was, usually the credit shows up BEFORE the actual bill is released. We don't use any Comcast equipment other than the two cable cards. They did raise the local channel fee from $10 to $13.70. Was going to be $14.60, that would have been 46%, maybe some regulation prevented that but I'm sure they will "catch up" next year. Total "fees" now $26.07, 13.70 TV, 8.25 sports, 4.12 franchise/regulatory. Franchise went up .22, does not SEEM like much but over 5%. Glad don't rent modem/gateway, that is up to $14 a month now, $168 a year to rent a modem? You can buy a really nice modem for that, even a gateway (modem and router in one). Or separates. If you are using really high speed internet make sure you get a Docsis 3.1 modem, 3.0 not enough for the really high speeds. Cheapest internet now $53, next cheapest $73.

For anyone looking for TV discounts with Comcast ask them about the latino package. It is actually the same as the regular package as far as I can see, just adds some latino channels. They usually have a nice discount on that, when I asked customer service lady about it she said she tries to offer it to people to save them money but many get insulted so don't take it. Geez, same package but more channels and CHEAPER, you don't have to WATCH the latino channels  Assuming they still have it, last I checked was a year ago.


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## spiderpumpkin (Dec 1, 2017)

I'm now getting a $5 equipment credit for each of my Tivo Bolt Vox cablecards. Before the latest bill the credit was only $2.50 each. So now, I'm getting 2 cablecards for free because first additional outlet/card is free and the second additional outlet/card is now free due to $10 credit. 

I'm tempted to get a third cablecard for an extra HDHR Prime I have which would mean I could get 3 cablecards/outlets for a total of $5 a month.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

Remember who owns NBC, MSNBC, PeaCock when you think of Comcast and how they keep screwing with your rates/bills/cable cards.


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## billbillw (Aug 15, 2005)

In Atlanta area. I just saw my Xfinity bill for March and to my surprise, they have upped my customer owned credit to $10 (for one cable card), from $2.50. No charge for the single card, so that's a net reduction of $7.50 in my bill. Not complaining. No change to other fees this month, but a couple months ago, they increased broadcast and sports fees, so this brings it back down some. Still paying $106 for a plan that is advertised as $90. No additional outlets, no modem or other fees.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

I haven't gotten my March statement yet (my billing cycle ends on the 17th of the month), but I noticed recently that I was granted an additional $5.00 COE credit on Feb 20. That's added to the $2.50 credit I had already received on Feb 10 for my single CableCARD.

I am curious to find out what this portends (permanent increase or one-time adjustment? compensation for some other increase? unprovoked Comcast largesse?).


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

chiguy50 - just looked at my new 3/14 statement & I got these (2) $5 COE credits:
Customer Owned Equipment - Adjustment Feb 20-$5.00
Customer Owned Equipment - Adjustment Mar 12-$5.00

On top of the one from my 2/14 statement:
Customer Owned Equipment -Adjustment Feb 12-$2.50

I'm waiting to see the next statement before I assume it's going to be a $10 COE credit going forward...but I'll take ANY (more) credits they want to give us at this point...


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

dishrich said:


> chiguy50 - just looked at my new 3/14 statement & I got these (2) $5 COE credits:
> Customer Owned Equipment - Adjustment Feb 20-$5.00
> Customer Owned Equipment - Adjustment Mar 12-$5.00
> 
> ...


Same here: Two new $5.00 COE's, one on Feb 20 and another on Mar 10.

My guess is that the COE was increased to $5.00 effective back to Jan 1 and that additional payment we received on Feb 20 was a make-up for the first two months of the year.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Ah, that could explain why I thought mine was $10.


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## billbillw (Aug 15, 2005)

billbillw said:


> In Atlanta area. I just saw my Xfinity bill for March and to my surprise, they have upped my customer owned credit to $10 (for one cable card), from $2.50. No charge for the single card, so that's a net reduction of $7.50 in my bill. Not complaining. No change to other fees this month, but a couple months ago, they increased broadcast and sports fees, so this brings it back down some. Still paying $106 for a plan that is advertised as $90. No additional outlets, no modem or other fees.


And yeah, its back to $5 for the March statement. So I guess they were back crediting for January. Unfortunately, my promo rate just ended so my total bill just jumped by ~$30. Time to call and see what retention dept can offer.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

Our bill (two cable cards) has been bouncing around the last 3 months. Was too high one month, then got larger credit the next month, then went up again (but not as much as the first month). It LOOKS like there might be extra $5 credit now (for two cable cards, so 2.50 extra each). Before you start thanking Comcast my opinion is it is some legal thing, they have to do it. Could be wrong but my experience with Comcast is they want to get as much as they legally can, many times by increasing fees instead of straightforward price increases.

On another note seems they are dropping MoviePlex. The one commercial free movie channel you get with "basic/digital starter" TV package. Though the movies are fairly "vintage" still a lot of good classics and again commercial free. Supposedly was going to happen March 24, but now delayed due to the virus. I'm guessing they will drop it as soon as they can. I consider that a major loss channel wise, I watched it quite a bit. Of course monthly bill will drop since they are dropping what I consider a major channel, right??????


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

I'm going to guess that the increase of the COE to $5.00 was occasioned by the standardization of the fee for STB rental under the Simple & Easy regimen. Previously the fees varied among the regions depending on the type of device.

Whether or not designed to comply with the FCC regulations on CableCARD, it has the effect of equating the value of providing your own digital video device to renting one from Comcast.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Since you basically get a $15/mo. discount now for using Tivo instead of the X1, a used lifetime Roamio can pay for itself in less than 2 years.

I would take the bet that QAM will still be around (enough) in 2 years if I was looking at Tivo vs. another cable solution today. Comcast is moving very slowly in getting everything off of QAM.


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## UncleJeff (Dec 4, 2016)

When my previous Comcast plan expired and I rolled into a new plan, Comcast quietly dropped my cable-card [COE] credit without telling me. Now the tech says "Sorry, the system won't let me put it in;" and "My supervisor says the [COE] was a temporary promotion."

I told them that the credit is mandated by the FCC. Was I misinformed? Where do we stand?


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

UncleJeff said:


> When my previous Comcast plan expired and I rolled into a new plan, Comcast quietly dropped my cable-card [COE] credit without telling me. Now the tech says "Sorry, the system won't let me put it in;" and "My supervisor says the [COE] was a temporary promotion."
> 
> I told them that the credit is mandated by the FCC. Was I misinformed? Where do we stand?


the credit cannot be added, but the billing system is supposed to eventually attach it to your account if your cablecard is the primary receiver - it's in the comcast fee schedule as a $10 credit.


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

UncleJeff said:


> I told them that the credit is mandated by the FCC. Was I misinformed?


The FCC does not explicitly state that a COE discount is required, only that a provider can not require the individuals to use the provider STB, and that CableCARDs must be reasonably priced. For those plans that include a STB that means you get a discount for COE.

A number of the more recent Comcast bundles (at least in some locations) no longer include any STB (every box, including the first, is an additional fee), so there is no COE discount to provide on those plans. Read your rate card carefully to see if a STB is included in the bundle you chose, and only then would a discount be appropriate.


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## KevTech (Apr 15, 2014)

CommunityMember said:


> A number of the more recent Comcast bundles (at least in some locations) no longer include any STB (every box, including the first, is an additional fee), so there is no COE discount to provide on those plans.


Ya I had the same thing happen to me as the plan I went to does not include any box while the previous one did.

I was then provided the section that states your plan must include equipment to get the discount.


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

CommunityMember said:


> A number of the more recent Comcast bundles (at least in some locations) no longer include any STB (every box, including the first, is an additional fee), so there is no COE discount to provide on those plans. Read your rate card carefully to see if a STB is included in the bundle you chose, and only then would a discount be appropriate.


BUT in many, if not all those same areas, the CC's are now $0 rated...so there is NO need for the COE credit, since you're NOT paying ANY outlet charge on the CC to begin with. (notably areas that are now on Simple & Easy pricing) My area is like this & my CC is now $0 rated...there are others here that have posted the same thing...


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

I have three CCs and my new contract is no charge for all CCs. 

It used to be $9.95 x 2 - $2.50 x 3


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

chiguy50 said:


> I'm going to guess that the increase of the COE to $5.00 was occasioned by the standardization of the fee for STB rental under the Simple & Easy regimen. Previously the fees varied among the regions depending on the type of device.
> 
> Whether or not designed to comply with the FCC regulations on CableCARD, it has the effect of equating the value of providing your own digital video device to renting one from Comcast.


As I noted earlier this year (see above), Comcast's COE credit is now tied to the STB rental fee. Therefore, with the TV box rental fee under S&E increasing to $7.50 as of January 1, the COE is also being raised from $5.00 to $7.50 as reflected in the below notice pertaining to my area. Note that some of these fees (such as RSN) will vary from region to region, but the STB and COE schedules should be uniform across the S&E landscape.

OTOH, RSN and, especially, Broadcast TV fees are skyrocketing, so "Comcast giveth and Comcast taketh away."


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

CommunityMember said:


> The FCC does not explicitly state that a COE discount is required, only that a provider can not require the individuals to use the provider STB, and that CableCARDs must be reasonably priced. For those plans that include a STB that means you get a discount for COE.


Although a moot point now that the FCC has rescinded the CableCARD requirement, the rules did in fact mandate a de facto COE credit (viz. "discount," as you aptly mentioned). See the below quoted section from 47 CFR 76.1205:

"For any bundled offer combining service and an operator-supplied navigation device into a single fee, including any bundled offer providing a discount for the purchase of multiple services, such provider shall make such offer available without discrimination to any customer that owns a navigation device, and, to the extent the customer uses such navigation device in lieu of the operator-supplied equipment included in that bundled offer, *shall further offer such customer a discount from such offer* equal to an amount not less than the monthly rental fee reasonably allocable to the lease of the operator-supplied navigation device included with that offer."


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

dishrich said:


> BUT in many, if not all those same areas, the CC's are now $0 rated...so there is NO need for the COE credit, since you're NOT paying ANY outlet charge on the CC to begin with. (notably areas that are now on Simple & Easy pricing) My area is like this & my CC is now $0 rated...there are others here that have posted the same thing...


As we have just pointed out, the amount that the operator charges for the CableCARD is not directly related to the COE credit. Rather, that credit is meant to reflect the relative cost of renting the operator's STB within the bundled pricing of a given service tier.

The policy was designed to allow a customer to forgo the rental equipment included in his subscription package in favor of a third-party navigation device without being penalized by having to pay the full amount for said bundle.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

NorthAlabama said:


> the credit cannot be added, but the billing system is supposed to eventually attach it to your account if your cablecard is the primary receiver.


I believe that you are correct in stating that Comcast billing CSR's do not have the option of adding this code to an account but that it must be system-generated.

That has certainly been my experience lately. I lost the COE credit back in May and was unsuccessful in having it restored. Rather, I eventually reached a regional rep who manually entered 12 monthly $5.00 "service adjustment" credits as a workaround for the upcoming year. Now, as last week, I believe the COE credit has been automatically restored to my account. It will be interesting to see whether next month's statement includes the new $7.50 COE credit alongside the regular $5.00 manually entered service adjustment.



NorthAlabama said:


> it's in the comcast fee schedule as a $10 credit.


I'm not sure where you see $10 listed for the COE credit. It used to be $2.50, then was raised last January to $5.00 and is now going up to $7.50 as of next month.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

chiguy50 said:


> I'm not sure where you see $10 listed for the COE credit. It used to be $2.50, then was raised last January to $5.00 and is now going up to $7.50 as of next month.


ours was $2.50, then $5, then $10 - the new fee card beginning 1/1/21 lowers it to $7.50.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

NorthAlabama said:


> ours was $2.50, then $5, then $10 - the new fee card beginning 1/1/21 lowers it to $7.50.


That's the first I've heard of a $10 COE credit. Are you sure that is not a double payment as opposed to a single monthly COE credit?


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

chiguy50 said:


> That's the first I've heard of a $10 COE credit. Are you sure that is not a double payment as opposed to a single monthly COE credit?


it was on the rate card, i checked several times.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

chiguy50 said:


>


Good lord, $30 just w/ these two fees. I need to find some of our old bills to see how much these fees have grown over time.


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## humbb (Jan 27, 2014)

krkaufman said:


> Good lord, $30 just w/ these two fees. I need to find some of our old bills to see how much these fees have grown over time.


And there have been zero live pro sports (the bulk of the content cost) on the RSNs since around the end of September.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> Good lord, $30 just w/ these two fees. I need to find some of our old bills to see how much these fees have grown over time.


ours are $18.50/$8.65 beginning in january, not much better.


humbb said:


> And there have been zero live pro sports (the bulk of the content cost) on the RSNs since around the end of September.


and we've received partial credit for all of 1 month.


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

chiguy50 said:


> That's the first I've heard of a $10 COE credit.


As always with Comcast, location, location, location (in terms of features, line items, and fees).


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> and we've received partial credit for all of 1 month


I like how Comcast adjusted data usage overages for the pandemic, as though it ended and everyone got back to work in July...


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

CommunityMember said:


> As always with Comcast, location, location, location (in terms of features, line items, and fees).


Yes, but now with S&E, most if not all of these variables have been standardized. It just remains for those Comcast divisions/regions to be brought along that have not yet been converted to S&E.

It is my understanding that this process is still ongoing, although I have been surprised by the lethargic pace if indeed the corporate policy-makers are behind the change since it looks to me to represent a win/win for Comcast: streamlined operations leading to reduced cost, less support headaches, potentially more revenue, and a better customer experience with much of the confusion removed over fee structure and service packages.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

krkaufman said:


> I like how Comcast adjusted data usage overages for the pandemic, as though it ended and everyone got back to work in July...
> 
> View attachment 55719


Well, in fairness, they did raise the cap from 1GB to 1.2GB. But then, they also cut the allowed months of overage in any 12-month period from two to one before the fees kick in.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> I like how Comcast adjusted data usage overages for the pandemic, as though it ended and everyone got back to work in July...


and they're still offering free xfinity hot spot access to _anyone_ (even non-customers) through the end of the year - to me, that's been the most generous pandemic gift of any service provider for so many who are struggling.


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

dishrich said:


> BUT in many, if not all those same areas, the CC's are now $0 rated...


So they finally eliminated the "Service to Additional TV" line item fee (used to be called something like an "Outlet" fee) in Simple and Easy pricing areas? The one example I have of a rate card in what I thought was a S&E pricing region still had the ~$10/mo "Service to Additional TV" fee even when the CableCARD went to $0/mo


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

CommunityMember said:


> So they finally eliminated the "Service to Additional TV" line item fee (used to be called something like an "Outlet" fee) in Simple and Easy pricing areas? The one example I have of a rate card in what I thought was a S&E pricing region still had the ~$10/mo "Service to Additional TV" fee even when the CableCARD went to $0/mo


it's going to be $7.50 here, same as the coe credit offset:


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

CommunityMember said:


> So they finally eliminated the "Service to Additional TV" line item fee (used to be called something like an "Outlet" fee) in Simple and Easy pricing areas? The one example I have of a rate card in what I thought was a S&E pricing region still had the ~$10/mo "Service to Additional TV" fee even when the CableCARD went to $0/mo


No, as of January 1, 2021, the "Service to Additional TV" fee has now been adjusted to $7.50 in order to match the STB rental fee and COE credit amounts.

See, it's "simple and easy."


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

chiguy50 said:


> Well, in fairness, they did raise the cap from 1GB to 1.2GB.


Heh, I was viewing that bump as similar to the "through June 30" overage waiver.



NorthAlabama said:


> and they're still offering free xfinity hot spot access to _anyone_ (even non-customers) through the end of the year


That does seem generous.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

The Comcast bill alone is enough to sell a person on YTTV.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

CommunityMember said:


> So they finally eliminated the "Service to Additional TV" line item fee (used to be called something like an "Outlet" fee) in Simple and Easy pricing areas? The one example I have of a rate card in what I thought was a S&E pricing region still had the ~$10/mo "Service to Additional TV" fee even when the CableCARD went to $0/mo


not exactly answering your question, but when I switched to a new plan (well basically to lock in a similar plan though the internet speed was supposedly higher than what the previous one said).. they finally got my cable cards separated and now I am being charged $10 outlet fee.. AND I haven't called in to complain (but I did use what I thought was a general feedback page in either this thread or one other and it ended up being a high level contact form) about the $5 box they're supposedly charging me for (when I switched plans online, they MADE me pick a box but I came IN I think the exact same day it was delivered to return it and get the cable cards turned back on -- previously they had been "two cablecards in one unit").

but anyway, I definitely don't have free cablecards AND am being charged an outlet fee.. I'm still on a plan for almost 2 more years so my sports fee isn't going up too??? I hope. I watch WSOP and the hot dog eating contest on ESPN, and have been recording World Poker Tour for years but have a million banked up.. (I have been eating into some other shows, like 2 year old Battlebots)


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

CommunityMember said:


> So they finally eliminated the "Service to Additional TV" line item fee (used to be called something like an "Outlet" fee) in Simple and Easy pricing areas?





chiguy50 said:


> As I noted earlier this year (see above), Comcast's COE credit is now tied to the STB rental fee. Therefore, with the TV box rental fee under S&E increasing to $7.50 as of January 1, the COE is also being raised from $5.00 to $7.50 as reflected in the below notice pertaining to my area.


After seeing chiguy's post, I just pulled up our area's new price list - it's now increased from the $5 that it's been for at least the past year on S&E pricing, to $7.50...bastards!  But it's regardless of which type of TV box you get on ANY outlets...including any/all DVR (with actual HDD's) boxes, X1 or legacy, or even DTA's.
I have 1 CC, 1 legacy DVR, 1 X1 DVR & 1 DTA...while the CC is $0 rated, all my Comcast boxes are now $5 each. (which I presume all 3 will increase to $7.50 each  ) There are now 2 tiers of paid DVR service ($10/150 hours cloud strorage & $20/300 hours cloud storage) but I'm getting the $10 one free for the duration of this new 2 year contract I got put on back in June.

edit: in looking at my price notice, it also appears that TV subs on legacy packages, will be having any additional outlets above the 1st, LOWERED to $7.50; *it's the fee posted in chiguy's price listing, right under the RSN fee increase.* (I assume they'll still get their 1st outlet "free"/as part of their TV package) So now ALL TV subs will be paying the same amount per added outlets, while legacy subs still get the primary box FREE. So I guess I would have been better off NOT switching to S&E, had I thought this was happening. 
Also just remembered seeing this article re: these increases:
Comcast to raise internet and TV prices nationwide next year


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

trip1eX said:


> The Comcast bill alone is enough to sell a person on YTTV.


That may appear self-evident on the face of it, but Comcast CATV as an add-on to their HSI service can still be roughly comparable to or cheaper than YTTV's current (and rising) $65. See also below.



dishrich said:


> So I guess I would have been better off NOT switching to S&E, had I thought this was happening.
> Also just remembered seeing this article re: these increases:
> Comcast to raise internet and TV prices nationwide next year


I included a link to the below article in an email I sent this month to our HOA's Board of Directors showing that, as of earlier this year, the total average monthly cable service bill in the U.S. comes to a staggering $217.42.

Maddeningly (to me), a year later the BOD is still dithering over whether to sign a new bulk-services agreement I had negotiated with Comcast for $70 per unit/month that includes, among many other significant benefits, all of the following items: Blast!/Extreme HSI w/xFi Complete (no data caps), XB7 gateway, Preferred TV with XG1v4 DVR and two Xi6 clients, HD Technology fee, HBO Max, SHO, and _all taxes and fees_. SMH

Obviously, not everyone can take advantage of bulk-services pricing which leverages the power of large numbers of captive users. However, it remains true that there are deals to be had, and many (most?) customers are overpaying by not advocating sufficiently for themselves.

REPORT: The Average Cable Bill Now Exceeds All Other Household Utility Bills Combined


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Comcast should break out the cost of ESPN too. That would allow them to advertise an even lower price for cabletv. TAke out $10/mo for ESPn plus the $10 for the RSN plus the $20 for broadcast networks and the cost of their cable package is then in the $20/mo range right?


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

chiguy50 said:


> Maddeningly (to me), a year later the BOD is still dithering over whether to sign a new bulk-services agreement I had negotiated with Comcast for $70 per unit/month that includes, among many other significant benefits, all of the following items: Blast!/Extreme HSI w/xFi Complete (no data caps), XB7 gateway, Preferred TV with XG1v4 DVR and two Xi6 clients, HD Technology fee, HBO Max, SHO, and _all taxes and fees_. SMH


Dang, that's a good deal for a flat $70 a month! Honestly, 70 bucks would be an OK price for just 300 Mbps internet (which I think is the download speed for their Blast Extreme tier) with the gateway equipment included and no data cap. (AT&T Fiber's regular price for 300/300, including equipment and no data cap, is $75 after the first-year promo rate.)

So the deal you negotiated with Comcast is like getting full cable TV with multi-room HD DVR and the two most popular premium services added on for free. Nice work.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

NashGuy said:


> Dang, that's a good deal for a flat $70 a month! Honestly, 70 bucks would be an OK price for just 300 Mbps internet (which I think is the download speed for their Blast Extreme tier) with the gateway equipment included and no data cap. (AT&T Fiber's regular price for 300/300, including equipment and no data cap, is $75 after the first-year promo rate.).


Actually, Extreme is now 400Mbps and you can get it for $50 with a 12-month agreement ($40 if you have an Xfinity Mobile cell line). I myself have Extreme Pro (nominally 600Mbps, but actually 720Mbps with overprovisioning) on a 24-month agreement and pay $50 with the XM discount. But that is for the service alone without equipment or waiver of the data cap.

The best we can get from AT&T in my location is 50Mbps and I believe they want $55 the first year including their mandatory gateway. (N.B.: I had contacted the AT&T bulk sales rep for our region and she had informed me that they were not offering bulk residential service at this time in our area.)

I also sat down with the Google Fiber reps regarding an HSI-only bulk agreement and their initial offer was for 20% off the retail rate for either 100 or 1000Mbps service with a 2-year lock-in. That would include a write-off of the considerable build-out costs.



NashGuy said:


> So the deal you negotiated with Comcast is like getting full cable TV with multi-room HD DVR and the two most popular premium services added on for free. Nice work.


Thanks. I put a lot of work into getting the best bang for the buck for our homeowners. (Frankly, a package deal like that does not fall from the sky; it was the result of some hard-nosed negotiations.)

Some of the ancillary benefits I did not mention include a five-figure build-out to run coaxial lines and supply service to three digital receivers in our fitness center where we now contract with AT&T for CATV; another digital receiver w/service for our clubhouse; up to three wi-fi extenders to service our common areas; "professional installation" in each unit at the homeowner's convenience; a $22,000 door fee (signing bonus); 5% annual cap on fee increases; and a five-year no-cost opt-out on the 10-year term agreement.

The proposal was for Blast! HSI but if we were to revive it now I would try to up that to Extreme (since the retail pricing is now virtually identical) and would ask for a bump-up to Peacock Premium Plus from the included Premium. I'm pretty sure I could swing the former; the latter would be a bit more of a stretch, but I would ask for it.

I mention all this just to point out that there are deals to be had. All of these items had to be run past the Comcast bean-counters at various points, so you know that they computed that they would amortize their investment and make sufficient profit over the medium term to justify the contract.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

there is no way for me to save money ala carte with streaming over comcast bundling, as long as they keep renewing my "new customer" offer (and they know it, too) - any combination is considerably more expensive than what i pay now.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

trip1eX said:


> The Comcast bill alone is enough to sell a person on YTTV.


No, it's not. Not in all areas.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

chiguy50 said:


> That may appear self-evident on the face of it, but Comcast CATV as an add-on to their HSI service can still be roughly comparable to or cheaper than YTTV's current (and rising) $65. See also below.


Exactly correct - I'm now paying $130/mo. all-in for 400mb HSI and all cable channels. That more than makes up for YTTV's add-on cost, and you get Tivo's far superior viewing experience to go with it.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

chiguy50 said:


> That may appear self-evident on the face of it, but Comcast CATV as an add-on to their HSI service can still be roughly comparable to or cheaper than YTTV's current (and rising) $65.


this is true in our market with bundling - yttv would be a considerable price increase over cable, with a loss of instant tuning and quickplay features i enjoy.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

On my residential bill (CATV service is provided via our HOA's bulk contract) I am paying a net $45 for Extreme Pro (600Mbps) HSI per month as a result of bundling, discounts and recurring credits, whereas the full retail price is a deceptively steep $103. That retail price goes up to $106 on January 1; but I will not only not be affected (my 24-month agreement locks in the price until May 2022), my monthly total will actually decrease by $2.50 due to an increase in the COE credit from $5.00 to $7.50.

Note as per the above that Comcast offers the multi-service discounts to residential customers regardless of how you get the services. IOW if you are a new occupant of a rental or condo complex that provides CATV or HSI from Comcast, you already qualify for these discounts on your first additional service. That's a pretty nice bennie IMHO.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

slowbiscuit said:


> No, it's not. Not in all areas.


Yeah in all areas, but I'm talking about the complexity of the billing - the price menu pic on the other page. A simple one price is a big selling pt for lots of people. Hence my comment. I didn't say either or was cheaper


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

trip1eX said:


> Yeah in all areas, but I'm talking about the complexity of the billing - the price menu pic on the other page. A simple one price is a big selling pt for lots of people. Hence my comment. I didn't say either or was cheaper


that's a rate card, not a bill. there are at least two ways to display monthly charges, the paper bill/pdf, and the explanation of charges in billing, but the amazing part? when you sign up, the comcast rep. now accurately tells you your monthly charges before you get a bill, taxes and all fees. they also send you an update of these charges when you add services. so, comcast probably has the most thoroughly explained and easily accessible detail of their charges than any service provider with which i've subscribed.

at&t bills, on the other hand, might as well be written in sanskrit.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

I agree that the standardized, all-inclusive pricing is an attractive feature of both YTTV and Google Fiber (both services fall under Alphabet Inc.'s corporate umbrella). With GF, the listed retail service price is all you pay, inclusive of all equipment and fees (in most cases, even the construction/installation fee is waived with a 12-month agreement). That IMHO is the way it should be across the board.

Comcast is headed part way in that direction with its Simple & Easy scheme, although the roll-out has been painfully slow. Now, if the incoming U.S. Congress or the FCC could see their way past the industry lobbyists to enact consumer-friendly regulations requiring providers to provide full disclosure up front in all of their advertised pricing, then that would alleviate the competitive pressure that induces companies such as AT&T and Comcast to tout deceptively low fees.

What may seem like pie in the sky is actually standard practice in most of the rest of the developed world (assuming we are still counted in that group), and there's no rational reason why we should expect less of our government or even our corporate leadership for that matter.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

NorthAlabama said:


> that's a rate card, not a bill. there are at least two ways to display monthly charges, the paper bill/pdf, and the explanation of charges in billing, but the amazing part? when you sign up, the comcast rep. now accurately tells you your monthly charges before you get a bill, taxes and all fees. they also send you an update of these charges when you add services. so, comcast probably has the most thoroughly explained and easily accessible detail of their charges than any service provider with which i've subscribed.
> 
> at&t bills, on the other hand, might as well be written in sanskrit.


Yeah I should have said price menu. So I relied on you the reader to do some math there in the context of the charts being posted. 

But bill or price menu doesn't change the point. You're obfuscating the point.

The chart just said to me this is one reason people get something like YTTV. They don't have to deal with a complicated convoluted pain the ass chart like that. The chart also means the advertised price is not the price. Because now the majority of the cabletv bill now is from fees and equipment

And you've had Comcast for 20 years right? You don't know simpler pricing in that space than Comcast.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

NorthAlabama said:


> at&t bills, on the other hand, might as well be written in sanskrit.


I am gratified to see that you quickly caught your typo there. As I am sure you know, the name of the world's oldest extant language is not "sandskrit" but rather Sanskrit (संस्कृतम्).


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

trip1eX said:


> Yeah I should have said price menu. So I relied on you the reader to do some math there in the context of the charts being posted.
> 
> The chart just said to me that this is one reason people get something like YTTV. They don't have to deal with a complicated convoluted pain the ass chart like that.
> 
> And you've had Comcast for 20 years right? You don't know simpler pricing in that space than them.


the rate card shows any and all possibilities for any and all customers, and when you've been around as long as comcast, that means there's a lot to list with grandfathered plans.

comcast has simple pricing for new customers just like google - google pricing isn't much better, either, if you dig into all the options.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

NorthAlabama said:


> the rate card shows any and all possibilities for any and all customers, and when you've been around as long as comcast, that means there's a lot to list with grandfathered plans.
> 
> comcast has simple pricing for new customers just like google - google pricing isn't much better, either, if you dig into all the options.


yttv pricing is $65/mo. IT's way simpler. No contest.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

chiguy50 said:


> I am gratified to see that you quickly caught your typo there. As I am sure you know, the name of the world's oldest extant language is not "sandskrit" but rather Sanskrit (संस्कृतम्).


hah! i didn't even realize i'd done it until navigating away from the page, then i thought to myself "did i put a 'd' in sanskrit?"


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

Been there, done that. 

Sing along with me:


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

trip1eX said:


> yttv pricing is $65/mo. IT's way simpler. No contest.


I agree with the proviso that you still have to deal with extra pricing for all of the add-on content providers.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

trip1eX said:


> yttv pricing is $65/mo. IT's way simpler. No contest.


...and about double what i pay, comparing only tv to tv - yeah, way simpler, and much more expensive for all or nothing - then, there's internet. what happened to choices?


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

NorthAlabama said:


> ...and about double what i pay, comparing only tv to tv - yeah, way simpler, and much more expensive for all or nothing - then, there's internet. what happened to choices?


well I never said anything about it being cheaper for you or for anyone else. I said the simple pricing is a selling pt ...after I looked at the Comcast price menu. 

btw, as a rule of thumb, I don't believe anybody's price quotes for their cable tv any more because too many leave out various costs. Almost no one ever includes the cost of Tivo for example. At the same time, I'm quite aware of the deals that can be had.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

The cost of Tivo for many of us here is irrelevant considering that lifetime boxes paid for themselves years ago. Before YTTV and others I had no option other than to rent Comcast's crappy DVRs, so my current Tivo setup has cost me nothing extra and has actually saved me over $100/yr for a few years now. This is not uncommon.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

slowbiscuit said:


> Exactly correct - I'm now paying $130/mo. all-in for 400mb HSI and all cable channels. That more than makes up for YTTV's add-on cost, and you get Tivo's far superior viewing experience to go with it.


I am in the $150 range with 200mb hsi and digital preferred. No premiums and a lot of channels I don't get cuz they are up. I have Xfinity mobile. I should be getting a $10 credit. I gotta push a little harder


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

mattyro7878 said:


> I am in the $150 range with 200mb hsi and digital preferred. No premiums and a lot of channels I don't get cuz they are up. I have Xfinity mobile. I should be getting a $10 credit. *I gotta push a little harder*


Yes, that $10 XM discount is a bit tricky. It appears that if the pertinent billing code is not applied automatically to your account with the service start-up, it becomes a thorny issue to rectify.

I myself persisted until I got a regional customer support rep to manually enter 24 monthly $10 credits as compensation when she found she was unable to generate the proper accounting code. I would guess that a more proper solution COULD have been provided, but that would have required back-channel coordination which the CSR determined was not worth the trouble or as immediately effective as applying a manual "billing correction." (N.B.: TBH, in my case the credit was not made publicly available until a month after I had established the new (Extreme Pro) service, so there was no way I could have realistically expected to get it automatically; but that did not stop me from successfully pursuing it.)

Here's the link if you want to elevate your issue, or you can try submitting your request through social media avenues.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

NorthAlabama said:


> and they're still offering free xfinity hotspot access to _anyone_ (even non-customers) through the end of the year - to me, that's been the most generous pandemic gift of any service provider for so many who are struggling.


comcast has extended free xfinity hotspot access through june 2021. :up:


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

chiguy50 said:


> Yes, that $10 XM discount is a bit tricky. It appears that if the pertinent billing code is not applied automatically to your account with the service start-up, it becomes a thorny issue to rectify.
> 
> I myself persisted until I got a regional customer support rep to manually enter 24 monthly $10 credits as compensation when she found she was unable to generate the proper accounting code. I would guess that a more proper solution COULD have been provided, but that would have required back-channel coordination which the CSR determined was not worth the trouble or as immediately effective as applying a manual "billing correction." (N.B.: TBH, in my case the credit was not made publicly available until a month after I had established the new (Extreme Pro) service, so there was no way I could have realistically expected to get it automatically; but that did not stop me from successfully pursuing it.)
> 
> Here's the link if you want to elevate your issue, or you can try submitting your request through social media avenues.


Thanks. I used the link and am awaiting reply.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

mattyro7878 said:


> Thanks. I used the link and am awaiting reply.


it's been a while since i emailed tom k, so i filled out the form, too, we'll see if it helps.

11 years ago, submitting an email to tom k would be followed up by a professional, experienced agent with the power to resolve issues, but a few years back the response came from a newbie with little knowledge, ability, or concern.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

NorthAlabama said:


> it's been a while since i emailed tom k, so i filled out the form, too, we'll see if it helps.
> 
> 11 years ago, submitting an email to tom k would be followed up by a professional, experienced agent with the power to resolve issues, but a few years back the response came from a newbie with little knowledge, ability, or concern.


If you sent an email 11 years ago, that would have been Tom Karinshak's predecessor, Rick Germano. It was under Rick's aegis that Comcast's customer support began to improve markedly.

Typically, communications to the EVP for Customer Experience are sent down to the pertinent regional support office for resolution. There, it can be potluck regarding the knowledge and moxie of the individual who answers the call. Most (but not all) of the time, my experience has been positive. The very few times that the first rep did not resolve my issue, I have recontacted the office and gotten the desired results.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

slowbiscuit said:


> Exactly correct - I'm now paying $130/mo. all-in for 400mb HSI and all cable channels. That more than makes up for YTTV's add-on cost, and you get Tivo's far superior viewing experience to go with it.


I re-enlisted for 2 more years for that total price (2 CCs) - only 140 channels though. This is $10 more than I paid last year at twice the internet speed.

It is actually a one year contract so this time next year I'll be looking at options. I do like YTTV but without all of those sports channels. I wish they'd offer a $30 option.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

confirmed by regional agent, the simple & easy plans don't include equipment, so no coe credit. 

i was able to get him to resolve a new login issue that just appeared with music choice, and he's checking into an error on the "my account" web page and app, so not a total loss?


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

NorthAlabama said:


> *confirmed by regional agent, the simple & easy plans don't include equipment, so no coe credit.*
> 
> i was able to get him to resolve a new login issue that just appeared with music choice, and he's checking into an error on the "my account" web page and app, so not a total loss?


In principal, this SHOULD apply, but I can not stress enough that YMMV due to quirks and inconsistencies in the current Comcast billing system. It's been a long and awkward transition to S&E and I foresee a long road yet to navigate.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Didn't have the credit on my first S&E bill, and included cablecard is listed. Bummer. With the BS fees increase this month I'm paying about the same as what I had on the prior 2-year contract but with twice as fast HSI. I'll take that. :wink:


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

slowbiscuit said:


> Didn't have the credit on my first S&E bill, and included cablecard is listed. Bummer. With the BS fees increase this month I'm paying about the same as what I had on the prior 2-year contract but with twice as fast HSI. I'll take that. :wink:


That's too bad but probably to be expected. Nonetheless, you can always call up and complain. At the least, the CSR can offer you a fillip of a one-time credit or some other freebie toward mollifying your disenchantment.

I sometimes have a hard time remembering that the COE credit is no longer always tied to CableCARD usage now that so many (although not all) of the S&E plans do not include any digital navigation devices.

I myself am still on a legacy plan (Digital Starter) but lost the COE credit back in June due to some sort of billing system changeover. I got a regional support CSR to manually add 12 monthly "billing correction" credits in lieu of the COE adjustment code, but then last month, lo and behold, the COE credit showed up again alongside the ad hoc credit. I'll be curious to see whether this continues next month and, if so, whether that COE credit increases from $5.00 to $7.50 as scheduled. That would give me a total of $12.50 p.m. in monthly COE credits. Not a bad deal and quite generous of Comcast (even if unintentional).


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

Sure enough, the (now duplicative) COE credit remains and increases to $7.50 as of this month:


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

But you're on a non-S&E plan right? Has anyone on S&E gotten the credit back?


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## Bruce24 (Jan 8, 2003)

Not that I realized it, but I just finished a 24 month promotion in December, the promotion was $50 off my triple play packed. I just checked and the recurring part of my January bill is $14 higher than December.

The changes I found were: 

They replaced the $50 package discount with a $25 discount that is good through 12/21. +$25 
I have a X1 DVR, the charge for this went from $5.00 to $7.50. +$2.50
Taxes and Fees increased by +0.52.
I have a pair of other X1 boxes, the charges went from $19.90 to $15.00. -$4.90
There is no longer a charge for my cable cards...I have two -$9.90

I'm not sure if this was a one time thing or not, but I also had a credit... Courtesy Sports Adjustment for -$6.42. 

I'm going to contact Comcast to see if I can get back to the $50/month discount on my package. When I did this two years ago, I had seen a post in their Community Forum where and employee offered to help a customer find the best deal for an existing customer. I contacted him and he (ComcastMartin) was able to quickly help me. At the beginning of the year my brother mention his bill was high, I had him contact the same guy who was able to save him some money. Hopefully he's still with Comcast.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

why aren't you using tivos??


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## Bruce24 (Jan 8, 2003)

mattack said:


> why aren't you using tivos??


I am, I have two Bolts one in the living room and one in my bedroom which we use most of the time. I also have an X1 box in my living room to allow us to get to on-demand, the other x1 boxes are in the kitchen and office.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Wow I thought I had too many ways to get TV! (and the actual tivos are next to each other -- 10 tuners.. and I access them from my living room with a mini)


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

The additional TV fee was removed from my Jan bill as expected. No other fees were added. My “normal” bill went up about $1.40 though because of the increases to the broadcast and sports fees, though this month I got a credit to the sports fee.

I’m on the Select+ package.


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