# Tivo STOP the AD's!!!



## techie714 (Aug 19, 2007)

Does anyone know if there is a way to stop these dumb Tivo ad's. Apparently paying $300.00 for the unit PLUS $300.00 for service is just not enough money to not get ads. This just really bothers me. Does anyone else hate these ads? Next Tivo will have you pay another $25.00 per year to continue to use your fast forward button.


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## Lazlo123 (Nov 7, 2006)

I'm on board!! Along those same lines, Cox Cable keeps allowing commercials to be aired on my TV, EVEN THOUGH i am already PAYING for the cable service. They also keep allowing banner ads and whatnot to show up on seemingly RANDOM websites I visit. Likewise, I have to have billboards thrown in my face driving down the highway even though i am paying taxes that built the road i am driving on! And I already own my Mazda, i don't need to have more Mazda logos on my car! You already got me Mr. Mazda! And what about these magazines!! I purchase them with my hard earned money and they are STUFFED with ads for Axe, sony, shampoos, the list goes on and on. I AM PAYING GOOD MONEY FOR THESE SERVICES. Why am i getting bombarded with these ads!!!  

The horror! I suppose next I'll have to keep putting more gas, oil etc into my car JUST to keep it running, even though I'VE ALREADY PAID FOR IT.


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## matt314159 (Jan 14, 2007)

Lazlo123 said:


> I'm on board!! Along those same lines, Cox Cable keeps allowing commercials to be aired on my TV, EVEN THOUGH i am already PAYING for the cable service. They also keep allowing banner ads and whatnot to show up on seemingly RANDOM websites I visit. Likewise, I have to have billboards thrown in my face driving down the highway even though i am paying taxes that built the road i am driving on! And I already own my Mazda, i don't need to have more Mazda logos on my car! You already got me Mr. Mazda! And what about these magazines!! I purchase them with my hard earned money and they are STUFFED with ads for Axe, sony, shampoos, the list goes on and on. I AM PAYING GOOD MONEY FOR THESE SERVICES. Why am i getting bombarded with these ads!!!
> 
> The horror! I suppose next I'll have to keep putting more gas, oil etc into my car JUST to keep it running, even though I'VE ALREADY PAID FOR IT.


Lazlo, that's not a fair comparison at all. With a premium priced service such as tivo, I think it is a VERY REASONABLE expectation to not want to have extra advertisements.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

techie714 said:


> Does anyone know if there is a way to stop these dumb Tivo ad's.


Sure - don't use your Tivo. 

(You agreed to them as part of the service agreement).



> Apparently paying $300.00 for the unit PLUS $300.00 for service is just not enough money to not get ads.


Correct. Read the financials. Tivo generally loses money on the hardware.



> This just really bothers me.


 Sorry to hear that. At least Tivo doesn't force you to watch them, unlike some other advertising options.



> Does anyone else hate these ads?


No, I've been a TCF member for years. Never seen a thread like this before from a new user.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Hehe... yeah never seen one of these before. 

Seriously, this is one of those "get over it" issues. It isn't that how much you paid doesn't matter, but rather that how much you paid is not so much as to justify your expectations that there won't be any advertisements.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

techie714 said:


> Does anyone know if there is a way to stop these dumb Tivo ad's. Apparently paying $300.00 for the unit PLUS $300.00 for service is just not enough money to not get ads. This just really bothers me. Does anyone else hate these ads? Next Tivo will have you pay another $25.00 per year to continue to use your fast forward button.


You are by no means alone.

BTW from what I've been reading you'll also soon be seeing ads on your cellphone and your ipod video. And I expect there will be those who will tell you that they are also good things.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

After seeing this post and a similar one on the S3 forum I had to take a look at the menus to see what they were talking about. Oh yeah, i found the menu option to view some ads. Never noticed them before. Boy is that obtrusive!!

Tivo doesn't force you to watch any ads. It merely gives you the option (in a very unobtrusive way) to view them.

Compared to cable menu ads that take up half the real estate on the guides this is absolutely no problem.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

bicker said:


> Hehe... yeah never seen one of these before.
> 
> Seriously, this is one of those "get over it" issues. It isn't that how much you paid doesn't matter, but rather that how much you paid is not so much as to justify your expectations that there won't be any advertisements.


yah, it is just as easy as ignoring threads that start with "I hate ads" ... oh wait a minute... now I replied...Doh!


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

jrm01 said:


> Compared to cable menu ads that take up half the real estate on the guides this is absolutely no problem.


And compared to being attacked by a swarm of hornets a single bee sting is no problem.....


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## techie714 (Aug 19, 2007)

I still think that the majority of Tivo subscribers cant stand these intrusive ads. I'm sure eventually someone will figure out how to stop them via a hack or something.


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## MaryT (Dec 3, 2001)

How are they intrusive? You have to ask to see them.


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## techie714 (Aug 19, 2007)

MaryT said:


> How are they intrusive? You have to ask to see them.


There in the main menu & that bothers me. I like a clean looking Tivo interface. Not one with a bunch "Watch this great infomercial about soap" or "Click here to see how cheese is made".

BTW: I didnt mean to come off rude. =)


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

I very rarely see the main menu as I quickly use the shortcuts to move around.


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## jmoak (Jun 20, 2000)

techie714 said:


> There in the main menu & that bothers me. I like a clean looking Tivo interface. Not one with a bunch "Watch this great infomercial about soap" or "Click here to see how cheese is made".


If mine had a bunch of stuff like that I'd be right there with you.

Seeing how I've never had more than one on the main menu and it's always been pretty easy to avoid, it's just never really bothered me.

How come I've never had more than one and you've got a bunch?


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

intrusive? wow, I don't even notice what it says most of the time.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

techie714 said:


> I still think that the majority of Tivo subscribers cant stand these intrusive ads.


On the contrary, I think that the majority of TiVo subscribers *can* stand these ads. Very few, if any, have said that they were such that it caused them to abandon their subscription.


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## mike3775 (Jan 3, 2003)

I usually hit my Tivo button twice, taking me right to now playing, I rarely ever see Tivo Central unless I want to change something in settings.

The ads don't bother me at all.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

The adds don't bother me - heck I even look at them from time to time. My bottom line is I want TiVo to stay in business - if these adds help I am all for it. 

Thanks,


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

I don't care for them either. 

However, you have to ask yourself if using the product and the benefit you gain from it is more important than glancing at those ad selections. That's the real question. Is it worth not using TiVo because of it?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

bicker said:


> On the contrary, I think that the majority of TiVo subscribers *can* stand these ads. Very few, if any, have said that they were such that it caused them to abandon their subscription.


in a long past thread on this topic - I challenged people posting that they did not like the ads to call TiVo and cancel while giving them an explicit reason to register their complete dislike of ads.
No one took me up on that challenge back then. I would make it again but I no longer feel like providing content for TCF by engaging in long debates


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> in a long past thread on this topic - I challenged people posting that they did not like the ads to call TiVo and cancel while giving them an explicit reason to register their complete dislike of ads.
> No one took me up on that challenge back then. .....


Which only proved that most feel there is enough to like about their boxes to keep them in spite of our distaste for the ads.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> in a long past thread on this topic - I challenged people posting that they did not like the ads to call TiVo and cancel while giving them an explicit reason to register their complete dislike of ads.
> No one took me up on that challenge back then. I would make it again but I no longer feel like providing content for TCF by engaging in long debates


You do still seem to want to get your words in though.

Your plan is flawed and that's been stated to you just as often.

Not everything worth complaining about is worth quitting over. People complain over their cubicle, they don't quit their job. People complain that their spouse is consistently tardy, they don't get divorced over it. People complain that they have a headache, they don't commit suicide over it.

So keep your silly challenge and just accept that some things bother other people more than they bother you, or I could challenge you that if you don't like these threads, to simply state so once and then quit them. Maybe you are onto something.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

The "ad" is one line on a menu screen many seldom see, now if it were a screen crawl I'd take issue, but it's hardly noticeable.


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## Dr_Diablo (Nov 24, 2003)

techie714 said:


> There in the main menu & that bothers me. I like a clean looking Tivo interface. Not one with a bunch "Watch this great infomercial about soap" or "Click here to see how cheese is made".
> 
> BTW: I didnt mean to come off rude. =)


You are far from being alone in this regard...

Isn't this the reason one drifts away from network TV ? To not have to endure all of these commericals? I also don't see why cable costs are going up when the programing stops around 2 AM until 6ish or later...

Who wants to work in the evening to come home to infospam?


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Dr_Diablo said:


> Who wants to work in the evening to come home to infospam?


one line of text one one screen is infospam?

I must be immune to the click or die vibes my TiVo is sending out.


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## jcaudle (Aug 16, 2004)

has anyone been to the movie theaters recently? Higher prices for tickets and refreshments, and you still have to look at preshow ads.


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## jmoak (Jun 20, 2000)

Dr_Diablo said:


> ...To not have to endure all of these commericals? ...


Ok... Now I am confused.

Langree and I only have one extra line on the main tivo screen to contend with, whereas you and techie714 seem to be deluged by them.

Can one of you guys post a screenshot of what's on your main tivo screen?

Thanks!


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Perhaps their could be multiple pricing tiers Adsupported, and clean. Many web sites work that way.

I have nothing against Tivo making additional forms of revenue, I just think they should provide us with options.

On the other hand I think Tivo has an opportunity here to do something interesting. Using the same technology they do with suggestions they could tailor the ads to something you might actually be interested in. I could see an ads folder that I might go into if it analyzed my viewing habits and tailored things better.

This means you need a broker for ads and not a specific product so they could select from a wealth of products. They could also tailor ads to a local zip area. Using Tivo cast they could easily pull down ads from server and not from cable bandwidth.

I think the problem most people have with ads is its stuff they are not interested in. However when your remodeling and your looking at bath products how often do you search magazines. My wife even puts in Tivo keywords searches for shows along those lines.

I would love to be able to use suggestion and other ad tailoring devices to control what I see and stuff it in a folder.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

who even sees the main menu that often for that long? really?

If it annoys you that much learn the shortcuts like tivo+tivo goes right to now playing list and the time on the main menue can be measured in tenths of a second.

I never bothered to learn but i believe tivo+<insert number> gets you to pretty much any place in the menues without going to the main screen.

If you have a universal remote just program the list button and one click gets you to the now playing list.

beyond all that- i happen to have the kidzone turned on and it sends me straight to the now playing list pretty much all the time- you have to exit the list to do anything. maybe you can set up kidzone to allow any content and then it just becomes a way to go straight to the now playing list? Just a thought.

Just some thoughts how to minize your pain.

Myself I say bring it on- load the showcases all you want. It keeps my monthly costs down and maybe one day I'll stumble on something i want to buy.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Billy66 said:


> You do still seem to want to get your words in though.
> 
> Your plan is flawed and that's been stated to you just as often.
> 
> Not everything worth complaining about is worth quitting over.


what is flawed? I never said stop posting, I just wondered if anyone is truly, really bugged or as you say just complaining again, but no biggie to me, have fun 

PS - they have Product Watch as a palce to get specific ads by "season passes". It never took off as advertisers did not seem to want to keep paying for content there.


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

techie714 said:


> There in the main menu & that bothers me. I like a clean looking Tivo interface. Not one with a bunch "Watch this great infomercial about soap" or "Click here to see how cheese is made".
> 
> BTW: I didnt mean to come off rude. =)


I'd actually watch a clip showing how cheese is made. I'd click on it multiple times if they actually SENT me cheese.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> what is flawed? I never said stop posting, I just wondered if anyone is truly, really bugged or as you say just complaining again, but no biggie to me, have fun
> 
> .


You see, that *is* the flaw. The test of whether or not they would cancel TiVo is NOT a valid determiner of whether or not they are bugged. You did and do suggest they cancel TiVo or stop complaining right? That's the flaw.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Billy66 said:


> You see, that *is* the flaw. The test of whether or not they would cancel TiVo is NOT a valid determiner of whether or not they are bugged. You did and do suggest they cancel TiVo or stop complaining right? That's the flaw.


I don't think I ever said stop posting in the old thread but could be wrong as it wa a while back. I rarely say stop posting though as anyone has just as much right as I to post. I just want to gauge if anyone is ever really going to do something that TiVo would really notice. I guess this topic just tickles my funnybone and intrigues me. Please continue complaining, don't mind me.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

On my main menu, I've had (have) at most, 2 extra lines at the bottom.
A star ad, and an ad with a little Tivo guy next to it.
Doesn't bother me.

Now if those 2 lines were put at the TOP of the menu, then I'd have a problem.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Zeo,

Where are you getting that from? I know you never asked anyone to stop posting. You ask people to prove their complaints are really bugging them by canceling their service. That's even more drastic than not posting.

If you can't understand the flaw in that argument is that there is ground after complaint but before cancellation, then I'm not sure I can make you understand that.

In either case, your challenge was ridiculous the first time and your repetition of it equally so.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

jcaudle said:


> has anyone been to the movie theaters recently? Higher prices for tickets and refreshments, and you still have to look at preshow ads.


I haven't. 
Reason? Higher prices for tickets and refreshments, and you still have to look at preshow ads.


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## matt314159 (Jan 14, 2007)

Billy66 said:


> You do still seem to want to get your words in though.
> 
> Your plan is flawed and that's been stated to you just as often.
> 
> ...


+1, well said, billy. I think essentially telling people to quit Tivo or quit complaining is ridiculous. In general, people understand that advertising is revenue for the company and can subsidize the cost for the end user. Dating back to the early days of Juno and NetZero, where you would get a free or discounted service to endure ads, or to think of some of the more popular forum websites (howardforums comes to mind for cell phones) where the site is free thanks to ad sponsorship, but if you're wiling to pay a premium, you can make the ads go away.

But tivo subscribers already pay a premium. Somebody signing up for tivo today has to choose whether to pay $17 a month, or endure a ridiculous 3 year contract, or prepay 3 years in advance to get a decent rate. And ON TOP OF THAT tivo still foists advertising off onto the consumers? I think it is a very valid complaint, and something's wrong here if people don't see that.

here we come to the part where the tivo fanboys verbally tar and feather me, and ride me out of town on a rail.

Ready, Set, GO!


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Is this about those yellow star ads again? I can't think of any other ads, but since those are not what I'd describe as even remotely obtrusive, I figure I must be wrong.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Has the OP considered that the monthly rate for TiVo service would probably be higher if it weren't for these "ads"?


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## matt314159 (Jan 14, 2007)

Hard to imagine their rates any higher than they already are.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Billy66 said:


> Zeo,
> 
> Where are you getting that from? I know you never asked anyone to stop posting. .


I meant keep posting in the form of keep complaining. Anyone can legitimately not like the ads on TiVo just like saying they hate all the flyers in the Sunday paper they never get anymore. Still a complaint and for that person valid from their perspective. Fine. I just take a person who stopped subscribing to the Sunday paper or a TiVo more seriously on the complaint than someone who still subscribes. Scour the forum, we might find 1 or 2 posters who left TiVo over the ads. Given that, why would TiVo stop selling ads?

Corollary - If TiVo stopped the ads would they gain enough extra subs to and up with more revenue than with ads?


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

matt314159 said:


> Hard to imagine their rates any higher than they already are.


1 Year: $22.95
2 Years: $18.95
3 years: $14.95

There now, that wasn't hard.

Seriously, if people aren't canceling over this, and it's keeping subscription costs at something reasonable that the market will support, where's the problem?


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## matt314159 (Jan 14, 2007)

GoHokies! said:


> 1 Year: $22.95
> 2 Years: $18.95
> 3 years: $14.95
> 
> ...


It's the "something reasonable that the market will support" that I don't get. Tivo's already [thread=364945] hemorrhaging [/thread] customers. It's hard to imagine that their rates could get any higher without precipitating the greatest mass exodus the company has ever seen.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

I've wasted more time reading this thread than all the time added together I've spent reading TiVo ads.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

matt314159 said:


> It's the "something reasonable that the market will support" that I don't get. Tivo's already [thread=364945] hemorrhaging [/thread] customers. It's hard to imagine that their rates could get any higher without precipitating the greatest mass exodus the company has ever seen.


well it is the first time they net lost subscribers and they have had the rates and contracts for a while now. Seems to me there is a tighter correlation to a lack of midrange priced HD TiVo than to ads or rates.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

zalusky said:


> Perhaps their could be multiple pricing tiers Adsupported, and clean. Many web sites work that way.


That would be a nice option, but with many already complaining that the Tivo service is too expensive, do you really think those folks are going to pay MORE for seeing no gold star ads?


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

jfh3 said:


> That would be a nice option, but with many already complaining that the Tivo service is too expensive, do you really think those folks are going to pay MORE for seeing no gold star ads?


Yea but what about the rest of my above comments where they could use the wonderful Tivo technology to try to figure out ads I might actually be interested in either from a entertainment point of view or by figuring out the shows I watch.

Those ad dollars would pay a lot more than spam ad dollars.


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## matt314159 (Jan 14, 2007)

ZeoTiVo said:


> well it is the first time they net lost subscribers and they have had the rates and contracts for a while now...


Now wait a second, didn't the rate increase take place in late 2006?

Look at the number of new net subscribers. 

```
Subscriptions in thousands:
     Three Months Ended  
			7/31/07  4/30/07  1/31/07  10/31/06  7/31/06  4/30/06  1/31/06  10/31/05
TiVo-Owned Subscription 
Gross Additions:  	 41	   57      163      101       74        91      221       92

Net Additions/(Losses): 
       
TiVo-Owned   		(19)       1      101       53       30        51      183       55 
DIRECTV   	 	(126)   (103)     (91)     (37)     (29)        2      173      379
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------                       
Total Net               (145)   (102) 	  10 	    16        1        53      356      434
Additions
```
My first assumption here is that Tivo's latest rate hike was Sunday, November 5th, 2006. This is based on the Stickey FAQ in this forum.

The first full quarter after the Q4 2006 price increase their net adds shrank to only 1,000 new subscribers, down SIGNIFICANTLY already from previous quarters. And the following quarter, they lose another 20,000 subscribers.

I know they're saying it's because of lackluster HD growth, but I find it hard to believe that it's all mere coincidence that their number of net new subscribers spirals to near zero the first full quarter following the Q4 '06 rate hike.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

jfh3 said:


> That would be a nice option, but with many already complaining that the Tivo service is too expensive, do you really think those folks are going to pay MORE for seeing no gold star ads?


Not to mention another variable for the "The price structure is too confusing" crowd. 

Matt, thanks for putting that chart together. While correlation != causation, that's a pretty healthy dip there. We'll have to see what this quarter looks like with the advent of the THD to see if those numbers come back any.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

RoyK said:


> Which only proved that most feel there is enough to like about their boxes to keep them in spite of our distaste for the ads.


In other words, the service provided is *worth* the price, both in terms of money and advertising eyes.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Billy66 said:


> People complain over their cubicle, they don't quit their job.


And therefore such complaints are generally easily ignored/dismissed. By contrast, many companies place a very high priority on grievances expressed to them during exit interviews.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Billy66 said:


> The test of whether or not they would cancel TiVo is NOT a valid determiner of whether or not they are bugged.


And being "bugged" isn't the issue -- or maybe it is, but it is actually the *intention*. Some advertising is even called "bugs" perhaps for that reason. Advertising is acknowledge to be something that people would prefer to avoid, but yet is often effective in proportion to how adroitly it "bugs" people. (Remember the "HEAD ON" commercials?)


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

matt314159 said:


> I think it is a very valid complaint


"Valid" is just about the only thing it is not. "Valid" would imply that there is a concrete foundation on which a person could base an assertion that the advertising shouldn't be there. There are terms and conditions that are put forward when you subscribe, and they don't promise that there won't be advertising.



matt314159 said:


> and something's wrong here if people don't see that.


No, what's wrong is our "complaining culture". If you want something, then go and get it, and be willing to pay the price. If no one offers it, or no one offers it in an acceptable manner, then make it yourself *or do without*. That's self-reliance and taking personal responsibility for your own desires. That's an ethos on which the United States was built. We've lost that pioneering spirit, wallowing in a quagmire of entitlement.

That's really the biggest problem our consumer sector faces -- we've abrogated our power over our suppliers by absolutely refusing to do without things we find unsatisfactory. We choose suppliers based on cost, not based on how well they serve us, and we continue to pay them even if we find their offerings inadequate.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

matt314159 said:


> It's hard to imagine that their rates could get any higher without precipitating the greatest mass exodus the company has ever seen.


I agree but that are two sides to every equation. In the case of pricing, the ideal would be to price based on value. However, there is a floor below which you cannot price your product, or you'll be losing more and more money with each additional sale... you cannot sell everything for less than cost. I think that's where TiVo is. I'm guessing that it simply doesn't have the ability to produce and provide profitably at a lower cost than it is already charging, and that as they lose subscribers they will hit that floor as it rises, forcing them to again increase rates. Bad situation to be in.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I meant keep posting in the form of keep complaining. Anyone can legitimately not like the ads on TiVo just like saying they hate all the flyers in the Sunday paper they never get anymore. Still a complaint and for that person valid from their perspective. Fine. I just take a person who stopped subscribing to the Sunday paper or a TiVo more seriously on the complaint than someone who still subscribes. Scour the forum, we might find 1 or 2 posters who left TiVo over the ads. Given that, why would TiVo stop selling ads?
> 
> Corollary - If TiVo stopped the ads would they gain enough extra subs to and up with more revenue than with ads?


We've found common ground here Zeo.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

bicker said:


> In other words, the service provided is *worth* the price, both in terms of money and advertising eyes.


For me it is - right now. The service that makes it worth it is MRV (my boxes have TiVo Basic which otherwise provides all the functionality I need. The ONLY reason I keep paying my subscription is MRV) But then I pay the old monthly MSD rates and have NO commitment.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

bicker said:


> (Remember the "HEAD ON" commercials?)


Absolutely!

Would I buy "HEAD-ON"? -- When pigs fly.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

But of course we know you're special, Roy! 

Seriously, ads that "bug" viewers actually _work_. It isn't the only way to have an effective ad, but it is one of the more reliable for-the-money ways.


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## Dr_Diablo (Nov 24, 2003)

MaryT said:


> How are they intrusive? You have to ask to see them.


Yes, true, that was the case until a few days ago..

From the Tivo Central menu you could access, "Showcases & TV Guide" thus being able to view these ads at will...

On my Tivo these ads now just pop up at will during a search within the Tivo menus, at the bottom of the screen...

Granted Tivo is entitled to this form of advertising, yet the end user should have the ability to disable such ads at will... :down:

I opted NOT to "enter to Win a Tivo" just for this logic


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

I don't get why the star ads 'bug' people. Are they the type of people who open the refrigerator and stare with the door open trying to figure out what they want? The same way they press the Tivo button and stare at the screen trying to decide what they want to do with the Tivo? When I access the Tivo main menu, I have a reason for doing so...either to watch a recording or to check my TDL/Search for shows. I honestly can't tell you what ads have been on my Tivo at any point since maybe around Christmas time. Like other posters have said, press Tivo twice (or Tivo and Select) to get to the NPL in a split second or Tivo, down three times, and Select to get to the Search/TDL screen. In no way do the star ads interfere with your ability to watch or record a show like the ads on FX & TNT that take up a third of the screen and include sound WHILE you're watching a show. If you despise the ads so much, call Tivo and let them know that you'd be willing to pay a monthly premium to keep the star ads off of your Tivo, just like you would for HBO and Showtime. Maybe if they get enough of these types of calls, they'll add it as one of their subscription choices.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

Dr_Diablo said:


> Granted Tivo is entitled to this form of advertising, yet the end user should have the ability to disable such ads at will... :down:


If everyone could disable the ads at will, I guarantee the number of advertisers would drop dramatically. That's part of the reason Tivo recordings aren't really counted in ratings because advertisers don't want to pay for people who aren't watching their ads.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

WhiskeyTango said:


> If everyone could disable the ads at will, I guarantee the number of advertisers would drop dramatically. That's part of the reason Tivo recordings aren't really counted in ratings because advertisers don't want to pay for people who aren't watching their ads.


It seems there are three schools of thought here.

1. People who feel that TiVo is cheapening the value of their already highly-priced subscription by trying to make a few more pennies with ads.

2. People who have learned to click their heels three times and repeat "There's no place like home" to avoid the ads.

3. People who find the ads of value and view them.

From what I've read, #1 and #2 far outnumber #3.

Edit: I forgot the fourth school - the individual who feels that if you don't like the Mole sauce you should throw out the whole enchilada.


----------



## hunter69 (Feb 9, 2002)

Can we have an option of more adds and lower monthly cost? The more money that TIVO makes for other sources the less they will drain out of me.


----------



## moxie1617 (Jan 5, 2004)

I wonder how many remember the two Harmony rebates offered to Tivo customers via the Showcase and Gold Star promos(2005 and 2006). I picked up two Harmony remotes and got $50 back each time. Ever since then I check the Showcase weekly. The only thing of value I've received since then was a coupon from Splenda, but I still check the Showcases all the time. Prior to the Harmony rebate I hated the Showcases, esp with DirecTv, that would download them on ch 582. It was the download and not the content of the Showcase that annoyed me.

For $100 they got my attention. I'm in the camp that finds the ads of value and never found them to get in the way of my viewing.


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

It may be just me but I don't even see adds on Tivo (unless it's in the Showcase section which is a useless feature these days).


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## jmoak (Jun 20, 2000)

Thunderclap said:


> It may be just me but I don't even see adds on Tivo (unless it's in the Showcase section which is a useless feature these days).


It ain't just you!

If I had a box that *"ads now just pop up at will during a search within the Tivo menus"*, I'd build a Myth box in a heartbeat.

We must have _special service_.


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## Dr_Diablo (Nov 24, 2003)

jmoak said:


> It ain't just you!
> 
> If I had a box that *"ads now just pop up at will during a search within the Tivo menus"*, I'd build a Myth box in a heartbeat.
> 
> We must have _special service_.


I'll bye one plz....


----------



## d_anders (Oct 12, 2000)

Dr_Diablo said:


> I'll bye one plz....


You'd absolutely have no patience with an open source Myth TV box....No cablelabs support for mythtv...no cable cards.

The last time I checked, mythtv only had support for OTA HD, and QAM/cable based tuning of unencrypted channels.

Mythtv is a hobby pvr box, requiring the approriate amount of time to support it.

After spending even more money on the appropriate hardware and a lot more of your time for configuration and management of your box...you would then need to respectively engage a "community" for support, etc.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Dr_Diablo said:


> On my Tivo these ads now just pop up at will during a search within the Tivo menus, at the bottom of the screen...


OK, now you really need to provide a screen shot, because this is unlike anything I've ever seen on my TiVos.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

MickeS said:


> OK, now you really need to provide a screen shot, because this is unlike anything I've ever seen on my TiVos.


Same here. I call shenanigans.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RoyK said:


> Edit: I forgot the fourth school - the individual who feels that if you don't like the Mole sauce you should throw out the whole enchilada.


RoyK thinks I am special as well


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> RoyK thinks I am special as well


Sure do, Zeo. One of a kind.


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## LifeIsABeach (Feb 28, 2001)

MickeS said:


> OK, now you really need to provide a screen shot, because this is unlike anything I've ever seen on my TiVos.


I think he are refering to the fact that adds cycle on the front page. You hit TiVo to go to TiVo Central and see one add. If you hit TiVo again you go to Now Playing. If you then back out to TiVo Central the front page add might have changed (if more than one is on your box). I never understood why people are so annoyed by those. I have never clicked on one and hardly ever even read what the add is about before going to the menu option I want.


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## Curtis (Dec 2, 2003)

LifeIsABeach said:


> adds cycle on the front page.


It is "ad".


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## matt314159 (Jan 14, 2007)

Curtis said:


> It is "ad".


I was waiting to see if somebody would speak up about that.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

Dr_Diablo said:


> On my Tivo these ads now just pop up at will during a search within the Tivo menus, at the bottom of the screen...


If this is the case you must be one of those comcast customers who asked them for a "Tivo" and they gave them their cable DVR.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Curtis said:


> It is "ad".


Or "advert" if you use the Queen's English.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

hunter69 said:


> Can we have an option of more ads and lower monthly cost?


Yes, it's called OTA live TV.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

bicker said:


> On the contrary, I think that the majority of TiVo subscribers *can* stand these ads. Very few, if any, have said that they were such that it caused them to abandon their subscription.


I would not cancel my TiVo subscriptions over them, but I do hate them (the ads).


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

RoyK said:


> It seems there are three schools of thought here.
> 
> 1. People who feel that TiVo is cheapening the value of their already highly-priced subscription by trying to make a few more pennies with ads.
> 
> ...


How about #5  people that might not "love" the ads but are willing to learn to press tivo twice rapidly and ignore the ads so that we can keep our monthly cost as reasonable as it is. Id called them pragmatic.

Some of us just happen to believe (Id say realize but that might be a bit condescending) that TiVo needs to make money in ways besides our monthly fees in order to stay in business and since we all seem to want the features tivo offers it seems to reason we all want them to staty in business. This same people probably believe that if they raised their rates for the current subs to the point needed to remain a going concern enough people would bail that the rates would have to go up and more would therefore bail and it would snowball (see Bickers post about the floor going up.)

If you have a plan for how they could forego the ads and keep the price the same and stay in buiness please share it- there's threads on a regular basis with discussions about new pricing plans. The funny thing is I can't recall any one of them ever saying ditch the ad revenue (although to be honest I dont read all that many of them)

and seriously I'd ask again- once one used the box for a bit and learned where things are and had it set up with their "usual" programs, how much time do people actually spend reading the main menu? I generally hit tivo twice to look at what I have to watch. I do navigate the menu to "find programs" on occasion- but someone above posted how to do that with a shortcut. So what else are people trolling in the menus for? How often do you need to change a setting or read your messages or turn the kidzone on or off, etc, etc. Beyond the ad at the bottom the menu never changes so what's to even read on the screen?


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## matt314159 (Jan 14, 2007)

While i'm still in the camp that Roy listed as #1, I would not at all be adverse to actually lowering the price of a sub with MORE ads, as others have mentioned. If the ads actually brought a discount, i'd be all for it. 

If there were such a thing as a $10/month sub w/ a minimum contract (like a year maybe) but with a targeted banner ad on the program guide, and an ad on the main screen, I'd probably take them up on it. But whether or not a couple more prominantly placed ads in the tivo software would generate enough revenue to subsidize that much of a sub's cost, I don't have any idea.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

matt314159 said:


> While i'm still in the camp that Roy listed as #1, I would not at all be adverse to actually lowering the price of a sub with MORE ads, as others have mentioned. If the ads actually brought a discount, i'd be all for it.
> 
> .... .


I'm mostly in camp 5- so I'd say you are actually already in such a plan as that's what TIvo is doing. They have added ads in an attempt to give you a discount. Thing is it's not an option- it's just what they figure most people would be willing to put up with to keep the price down...


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> How about #5  people that might not "love" the ads but are willing to learn to press tivo twice rapidly and ignore the ads so that we can keep our monthly cost as reasonable as it is. Id called them pragmatic.....


That's #2


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

RoyK said:


> From what I've read, #1 and #2 far outnumber #3.


Which means less than nothing. What actually matters is whether (1) TiVo makes money from having the advertisements and (2) TiVo loses less revenue from subscribers canceling because of the advertisements than they make from the advertisements themselves. Nothing else you mention matters one bit.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

DCIFRTHS said:


> I do hate them (the ads).


I hate standing in queue at the security check at the airport, but I still do it.


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## matt314159 (Jan 14, 2007)

MichaelK said:


> I'm mostly in camp 5- so I'd say you are actually already in such a plan as that's what TIvo is doing. They have added ads in an attempt to give you a discount. Thing is it's not an option- it's just what they figure most people would be willing to put up with to keep the price down...


I'm not really in any camp since at the moment I don't have a tivo. I refuse to sign up for a monthly plan at their rate or prepay three years in advance. I had an ebay auction that I had won for one, but that fell through when the seller backed out. Now I am keeping my eyes open on eBay to see if I can find a decent price on a lifetime box, because I think anything other than that is a ripoff. Their $300 3 year prepay isnt too bad but for that I can find a lifetime box on ebay.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

matt314159 said:


> I'm not really in any camp since at the moment I don't have a tivo. I refuse to sign up for a monthly plan at their rate or prepay three years in advance. I had an ebay auction that I had won for one, but that fell through when the seller backed out. Now I am keeping my eyes open on eBay to see if I can find a decent price on a lifetime box, because I think anything other than that is a ripoff. Their $300 3 year prepay isnt too bad but for that I can find a lifetime box on ebay.


You can get a lifetime S3 or THD for that?


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## Atomike (Jun 12, 2005)

> I hate standing in queue at the security check at the airport, but I still do it.


You do - but don't you think it's possible that SOME people may not fly as much because of the hassle? Your analogy is good, but it demonstrates the opposite point of view.

Personally, if I didn't have lifetime service, I would drop Tivo and build a MythTV due to ads. Asking someone to pay a premium fee, and then showing ads is not only annoying, it's insulting to your customers. It gives the impression of double-dipping. Concerning the argument that "Tivo needs the money so I don't care about the ads" - well good for you. Why don't you send in extra money each month to supplement your "charity".
And the "I don't even see the ads!" crowd - Yikes. Not very discerning. Just realize that unless you asked for the ads, it's not TV YOUR way - it's TV Tivo's way.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Atomike said:


> You do - but don't you think it's possible that SOME people may not fly as much because of the hassle? Your analogy is good, but it demonstrates the opposite point of view.
> 
> Personally, if I didn't have lifetime service, I would drop Tivo and build a MythTV due to ads. Asking someone to pay a premium fee, and then *showing ads* is not only annoying, it's insulting to your customers. It gives the impression of double-dipping. Concerning the argument that "Tivo needs the money so I don't care about the ads" - well good for you. Why don't you send in extra money each month to supplement your "charity".


There it is again, I have yet to see an ad, no I see a line item, and if I click it I can see the ad. But I don't click it. Hell, the line item barely registers.


----------



## matt314159 (Jan 14, 2007)

Langree said:


> You can get a lifetime S3 or THD for that?


Nope, but a S1 with lifetime (~$200) will look fine on my SDTV for now. Maybe later they'll have another lifetime transfer offer.

If you need HD, you're best off going through tivo


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Atomike said:


> Personally, if I didn't have lifetime service, I would drop Tivo and build a MythTV due to ads. Asking someone to pay a premium fee, and then showing ads is not only annoying, it's insulting to your customers. It gives the impression of double-dipping.


Such specious arguments. They're not "showing" you ads, they are displaying an additional line on a menu. It requires *zero* extra effort to ignore these "ads". And it's not a premium fee, it's what you pay for the TiVo service. There's nothing "premium" about it.

Double dipping? I subscribe to PCMag, send them good money, and they *still* put ads in the magazine. Heck, I have to turn the page to bypass them, that's more effort than the TiVo ads require. And my bank slips little glossy adverts in my monthly statement (well, they used to--I'm eStatements now). I managed to simply bypass them without going all postal.

Revenue is revenue. TiVo can do what they want (within the limits of any contractual agreements, obviously) and we can take it or leave it. That famous free-market choice many of us have. Could TiVo find some level of advertising that would aggravate me enough to leave? Sure. But this ain't even close. Like a .001 on a 1 to 10.

_Edited to add: what langree said, he just types faster, and is more succint, than I am._


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## Atomike (Jun 12, 2005)

> There it is again, I have yet to see an ad, no I see a line item, and if I click it I can see the ad.


Your _pros hens equivocal_ logical fallacy is showing. 
I assume you actually understood what what meant, but simply like to type. If not, I really don't know what to say.



> Such specious arguments.


Irony.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

There are more ads in one baseball game than their have been on the TiVo during the entire time I've owned one. How these one-line items of text bother anyone is beyond me.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Atomike said:


> Personally, if I didn't have lifetime service, I would drop Tivo and build a MythTV due to ads.


A lifetime TiVo still sells pretty easily on eBay. The money you make on it will go a long way towards building your MythTV box. Put your money where your mouth is.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Atomike said:


> Your _pros hens equivocal_ logical fallacy is showing.
> I assume you actually understood what what meant, but simply like to type. If not, I really don't know what to say.


I totally understand, but to call them intrusive and annoying, or even an ad in the proper sense is plain silly.


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## tmesser (Apr 12, 2003)

d_anders said:


> Mythtv is a hobby pvr box, requiring the approriate amount of time to support it.


That's the #1 reason why I haven't spent the time and money to build one. I don't really want another computer in my house that I have to actively support. I spend all day working on Linux systems; when I come home, I just want to sit down for a while and watch TV.

My TiVo just _works_. And I rarely notice the ads.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Langree said:


> I totally understand, but to call them intrusive and annoying, or even an ad in the proper sense is plain silly.


Exactly. Off hand, I can't recall what these "ads" are for.
(That's how much I notice them.)


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## kmill14 (Dec 11, 2006)

Feel free to drop Tivo and use Comcast's DVR ....but be prepared for the most intrusive ad system you could ever imagine.

Tivo has really tried to keep the ads un-intrusive and still offer them to the people who want to check them out. If it helps them keep their head above water to provide customers like you and me great service and innovations, I say go for it.

If it ever go to the point where it was annoying to a lot of people....they would hear enough of it to stop, or people would just leave.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

.

My original statement is below.



DCIFRTHS said:


> I would not cancel my TiVo subscriptions over them, but I do hate them (the ads).


This is how you quoted me.



> I do hate them (the ads).


This was your response to my post.



bicker said:


> I hate standing in queue at the security check at the airport, but I still do it.


1) Why did you leave off the first part of my quote without indicating that you did so?

2) What point were you attempting to make by responding to my post?


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## matt314159 (Jan 14, 2007)

DCIFRTHS said:


> 1) Why did you leave off the first part of my quote without indicating that you did so?
> 
> 2) What point were you attempting to make by responding to my post?


Don't feel too bad, he's done it to me too. Some people are so concerned about arguing and disproving somebody else that they will do whatever they have to, including taking things out of context and putting a "spin" on what you said.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Atomike said:


> You do - but don't you think it's possible that SOME people may not fly as much because of the hassle?


Too few for it to impact the decision to impose the need for the queue, and that was my point.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

DCIFRTHS said:


> 1) Why did you leave off the first part of my quote without indicating that you did so?


It was unnecessary to put my reply into context.



DCIFRTHS said:


> 2) What point were you attempting to make by responding to my post?


That the level of annoyance being discussed isn't a significant factor in the crafting of offerings.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

matt314159 said:


> Some people are so concerned about arguing and disproving somebody else that they will do whatever they have to


And some people just post attacks on individual posters because they have nothing constructive to add to the actual topic being discussed.


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## matt314159 (Jan 14, 2007)

bicker said:


> It was unnecessary to put my reply into context.


Actually, bicker, in your case, it was essential that you NOT put his words in their correct context, otherwise you would have sounded foolish. It would have read as follows:


DCIFRTHS said:


> I would not cancel my TiVo subscriptions over them, but I do hate them (the ads).


followed by 


bicker said:


> I hate standing in queue at the security check at the airport, but I still do it.


which would have been a meaningless statement, because you BOTH SAID THE SAME THING. Instead, you had to take purposely his words out of context, by leaving out the first part of his quote.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

You're mistaken. If I have to explain it to you...


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

bicker said:


> It was unnecessary to put my reply into context.


Extracting only part of my sentence, and replying to it with the response you typed, made my words convey something different than I originally wrote. Can you comprehend that? If not, please see this post as it clearly explains why you were wrong to use only part of my statement.

Additionally, it's just good manners to indicate that part of a quote was edited out. It's called an ellipses. After you leave the cable offices for the day, do you moonlight as a proof reader for the _National Inquirer_?



> Originally Posted by DCIFRTHS
> 2) What point were you attempting to make by responding to my post?


You answered:



bicker said:


> That the level of annoyance being discussed isn't a significant factor in the crafting of offerings.


Are you agreeing that you also would not cancel your TiVo subscription because of the ads? If that is not what you are saying, would you please tell me, in an intelligible sentence, what you are saying?


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

bicker said:


> If I have to explain it to you...


Finish your thoughts, or people may misinterpret your post. I'm guessing it went something like this:

"My brain would explode because even *I* don't know what I am talking about."


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## drunkenovitwolf (Sep 9, 2007)

If Tivo got rid of the ads, they would need to generate the revenue lost some other way. That would mean an increase in the price of the service. I would prefer the ads to paying more $ a month.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

DCIFRTHS said:


> (meaningless prattle omitted)
> 
> Additionally, it's just good manners to indicate that part of a quote was edited out. It's called an ellipses. (more meaningless prattle omitted)


How about just a parenthetical indication?


----------



## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

drunkenovitwolf said:


> If Tivo got rid of the ads, they would need to generate the revenue lost some other way. That would mean an increase in the price of the service. I would prefer the ads to paying more $ a month.


I don't think we can establish such an implication. TiVo likely has the advertisements "because they can". They're obligated to make business decisions in the best long-term financial interests of their owners, and that includes anything that is a net-gain long-term, such as advertising. They're not just trying to fill a quota of revenue -- they're trying to maximize it.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

bicker said:


> I don't think we can establish such an implication. TiVo likely has the advertisements "because they can". They're obligated to make business decisions in the best long-term financial interests of their owners, and that includes anything that is a net-gain long-term, such as advertising. They're not just trying to fill a quota of revenue -- they're trying to maximize it.


Precisely. To think that they would lower subscription rates or not raise them so much if they sold more advertising is naive IMHO. They will both increase advertising -- if they can find people willing to buy it -- if they think it will increase their bottom line while at the same time increase the subscription rates as much as they think they can trying to stay just shy of that critical point that 'breaks the camel's back'.

If they manage to hit the sweet spot (and make enough money there) they will survive. If they err on either side they'll be gone. The days when they survive just because they have the only game in town are gone.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

bicker said:


> How about just a parenthetical indication?


Your repeated avoidance in answering direct questions, that challenge something you have said, with clear and comprehensive answers, is proof enough for me that you really don't see past your nose. I am satisfied. Thanks 

When I read your posts, they make me think of the Billy Joel song _Angry Young Man_. Good luck to you.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RoyK said:


> Precisely. To think that they would lower subscription rates or not raise them so much if they sold more advertising is naive IMHO. They will both increase advertising -- if they can find people willing to buy it -- if they think it will increase their bottom line while at the same time increase the subscription rates as much as they think they can trying to stay just shy of that critical point that 'breaks the camel's back'..


all good points and exactly why the only thing that will stop ads on TiVo DVR is enough cancelling of subs to hurt the bottom line. Anything else is just, well .. complaining 

Now I do think that if the ad business hit some tipping point for TiVo then they would consider lowering rates because more market share that is sustainable by TiVo means more ability to direct the market and generate even more revenue oppurtunities

I do not perceive TiVo as anywhere near such a tipping point however.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

DCIFRTHS said:


> Your repeated avoidance in answering direct questions, that challenge something you have said, with clear and comprehensive answers, is proof enough for me that you really don't see past your nose. I am satisfied.


Factor in that it's just you I'm making fun of at this point, while I continue to engage in a substantive discussion with others participating in the thread.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> all good points and exactly why the only thing that will stop ads on TiVo DVR is enough cancelling of subs to hurt the bottom line.


Absolutely.



ZeoTiVo said:


> Anything else is just, well .. complaining


I have a problem giving it even that much credence. Complaining, to me, has a connotation of justification, foundation, basis... you go to the Complaints Department at a department store to return or exchange merchandise which has (explicitly) failed to live up to reasonable expectations. While the dictionary definition doesn't have such a requirement, it seems to me that it should. "Complaining" without foundation is really just "whining" in my book. YMMV.



ZeoTiVo said:


> Now I do think that if the ad business hit some tipping point for TiVo then they would consider lowering rates because more market share that is sustainable by TiVo means more ability to direct the market and generate even more revenue oppurtunities


Yes... if by lowering the rates they could sell so many more subscriptions and therefore convert than into substantially higher rates for the advertising they sell... indeed, that could work.



ZeoTiVo said:


> I do not perceive TiVo as anywhere near such a tipping point however.


DVRs would really need to become a much more effective tool for delivering advertisements for that to be the case. To be honest, I cannot think, of a single consumer product/service, except for newspapers and magazines, that has ever reached the point where the profit from advertising was enough to justify a substantial decrease in price for the actual product/service itself. Not movie theaters (before and during the previews), not theme parks (ride/attraction sponsorship), not restaurants (Cheesecake Factory has ads in the menus), etc.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Well there is one thing that complaining -- especially in a public forum -- does accomplish and that is to draw attention to a situation to outsiders. You see it isn't just the subscriptions lost from cancellations that affects the bottom line it's also those not gained in the first place because of negative perceptions held by would-be subscribers -- a much more difficult thing to measure indeed.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

RoyK said:


> Well there is one thing that complaining -- especially in a public forum -- does accomplish and that is to draw attention to a situation to outsiders.


Luckily, more and more, these venues are fostering balance. No complaining-without-adequate-foundation (a.k.a. "whining") deserves an un-rebutted soap-box and hopefully, more and more, it won't receive one, and folks will chime in with both substantive rebuttals (arguments to the contrary), and rebuttals just highlighting the weakness of foundation.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

bicker said:


> Luckily, more and more, these venues are fostering balance. No complaining-without-adequate-foundation (a.k.a. "whining") deserves an un-rebutted soap-box and hopefully, more and more, it won't receive one, and folks will chime in with both substantive rebuttals (arguments to the contrary), and rebuttals just highlighting the weakness of foundation.


Your post illustrates the all too common point of view that because one does not share another's opinion on a subject then that opinion has no validity.

The fact that you don't feel that ads on TiVo are annoying and cheapen the user's experience by no means invalidates the opinion of those who do. It merely illustrates that different people perceive things differently.....


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## matt314159 (Jan 14, 2007)

RoyK said:


> Your post illustrates the all to common point of view that because one does not share another's opinion on a subject then that opinion has no validity.
> 
> The fact that you don't feel that ads on TiVo are annoying and cheapen the user's experience by no means invalidates the opinion of those who do. It merely illustrates that different people perceive things differently.....


+!, Well said, Roy. You've hit the nail squarely on the head.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

bicker said:


> I continue to engage in a substantive discussion with others participating in the thread.


Your arrogance is greater than your intellect.


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## ldc3000 (Jun 24, 2004)

bicker said:


> No, what's wrong is our "complaining culture". If you want something, then go and get it, and be willing to pay the price. If no one offers it, or no one offers it in an acceptable manner, then make it yourself *or do without*. That's self-reliance and taking personal responsibility for your own desires. That's an ethos on which the United States was built. We've lost that pioneering spirit, wallowing in a quagmire of entitlement.
> 
> That's really the biggest problem our consumer sector faces -- we've abrogated our power over our suppliers by absolutely refusing to do without things we find unsatisfactory. We choose suppliers based on cost, not based on how well they serve us, and we continue to pay them even if we find their offerings inadequate.


I could not agree with your sentiment more.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

RoyK said:


> Your post illustrates the all too common point of view that because one does not share another's opinion on a subject then that opinion has no validity.


On the contrary, my post illustrates the rare point of view that every opinion is equally valid. You must have read it wrong.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

DCIFRTHS said:


> Your arrogance is greater than your intellect.


Cut the juvenile crap already.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

I know this thread hasn't completely turned into mud slinging but I thought this pic was starting to become relevant:












Thanks


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Well that's the end of this thread.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

atmuscarella said:


> I know this thread hasn't completely turned into mud slinging but I thought this pic was starting to become relevant:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 :up: :up: :up:


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

My HR-20 TiVo NEVER gets ads :up:


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

atmuscarella said:


> I know this thread hasn't completely turned into mud slinging but I thought this pic was starting to become relevant:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Poor taste is never relevant.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

> Originally Posted by *RoyK*
> Poor taste is never relevant.


 Sorry you didn't find the pic amuzing but when I start to see posts in a thread like:


> Your arrogance is greater than your intellect.


I have to ask would anyone really say that to someone's face? Some people lose track of the difference between disagreeing with a persons opinion (which is welcome and expected) and launching personal attacks (which has no place in these forums). The pic was (in my opinion) an amusing way to point this out. So yes I do think the pic was relevant. Sorry it didn't strike you that way but nothing personal was intended.

Thanks,


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

atmuscarella said:


> Sorry you didn't find the pic amuzing but when I start to see posts in a thread like:
> 
> 
> > Your arrogance is greater than your intellect.


On numerous occasions, I have been misquoted, and my words have been twisted by the person I was addressing. This isn't the first time it has happened. In fact, the person I was responding to often does this when someone doesn't agree with his/her opinion. I have stopped responding to anything he/she posts because we don't see eye-to-eye, and I don't like the condescending replies he/she often makes. This case was an exception because I was directly addressed by the poster.



atmuscarella said:


> I have to ask would anyone really say that to someone's face? Some people lose track of the difference between disagreeing with a persons opinion (which is welcome and expected) and launching personal attacks (which has no place in these forums). The pic was (in my opinion) an amusing way to point this out. So yes I do think the pic was relevant. Sorry it didn't strike you that way but nothing personal was intended.
> 
> Thanks,


If I was face to face with the person I typed my response to, and we were (verbally) at the same point in our discussion, I absolutely would have said that to his/her face. I didn't curse, harass, threaten or otherwise say anything that could be construed as "out of line". My commentary was my assessment of the poster's posts.

It's not like I posted a link implying that someone was a _dickwad_


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

atmuscarella said:


> Sorry you didn't find the pic amuzing ....


I agree that personal attacks are out of place in these forums. However your posting seemed to me to be a case of just what you were condemning. Perhaps I'm just old and too sensitive but IMHO such vulgarity is out of place in a forum like this.


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## matt314159 (Jan 14, 2007)

I hate to say it but I think this thread has finished running its course. Do mods ever close threads around here or do they just stay open indefinitely?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

matt314159 said:


> I hate to say it but I think this thread has finished running its course. Do mods ever close threads around here or do they just stay open indefinitely?


it seems personal insults rule is largely ignored. Now this thread has not really crossed that line, in my opinion, since the only just plain old insult was a picture an not aimed directly at anyone


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