# Lost - S3E06 - "I Do"



## mattpol (Jul 23, 2003)

My first time starting a thread like this! Very exciting for some reason (wow my life is pathetic!).

Anyway, pumped for tonight, but not looking forward to the several month break ahead. I have never had to deal with this as a watch the first two seasons on DVD, I don't know how I'll deal.

Enjoy! I know I will.


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## TomK (May 22, 2001)

It's advertised as the 'best Lost ever' (or something like that). Time will tell.


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## packerfan (Jan 8, 2002)

Kate should have told Jack that they are on a different island. I hate this show. I can't figure out why I keep watching.


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## Grumpy Pants (Jul 1, 2002)

I wonder if Lost will lose viewers over this. Actually I already know one that they have lost. Stupid, stupid show. See ya Lost.


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## TomK (May 22, 2001)

At least tonight's show wasn't filled with a bunch of goofy numbers to wonder about.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

mattpol said:


> My first time starting a thread like this! Very exciting for some reason (wow my life is pathetic!).


Congrats, and nice job! All that's missing is the episode date in the subject. 



> Enjoy! I know I will.


I don't know if I'll be in the minority, but I absolutely hated this episode, and I think I now feel official Lost frustration.

Kate and James made whoopee? Big whoop!

We found out Kate was married to Cap'n Mal in Miami, she thought she was pregnant and was upset she wasn't, and she skipped out on Mal to keep him from getting nabbed as aiding a fugitive. Big whoop!

They buried Eko with his stick, and Locke saw "Lift your eyes up and look to the north". Does it mean anything in THIS episode? No. So I have to wait for the payout. Big whoop!

The only part I enjoyed was Jack thinking he's big man telling Ben he wants off this island. Well, that's easy. Take him to the other island! Big whoop!

OK. Just needed to get that out. Now I can sit back, chill, see what everyone else got out of this episode that I didn't, and wait for February.

Oh yeah. I can't wait!


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

What a squandered opportunity. At this point the creators are simply coasting on fumes.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

I think it's now ironic that they had a shark with a Dharma symbol on it. 'Cause they jumped it.

YAWN!

BORING!

I'm supposed to wait till when for what?

Again - YAWN!


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

:down: :down: :down: 

Wow thanks for yanking my chain Lost. Tattooed shark officially jumped. Kate and Sawyer get it on  . Kate still in useless chippie mode. What happened to the Kate who would kick a U.S. Marshall's ass? I guess the writers forgot about that while they were thinking of how to waste six episodes on the "others." 

I was going along with the ride, but tonight was just too much. I can't believe I pushed my South Park recording back until later for this dreck. Mr. Ecko you had the right idea, get out of town.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Would it just be easier if I poked my self with something sharp then endure this torture? My biggest complaint with Lost is the number of questions it fails to ignore/answer while bringing up new ones. Like what was the point of Alex?

Looks like we will have to wait until episode 120 before they take 2 hours to answer every single question.


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## pcguru83 (Jan 18, 2005)

Wow...just wow. This episode was a joke, right? This episode was just some kind of bit, a skit maybe? We get the real cliff-hanger next week, right? _Right?_


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

Just horrible. The acting was bad all around. The high school level love triangle with Freckles is a joke. The camp level is just WAY too high. Even composer Giacchino seems to be phoning it in. 

I don't know if I'm going to waste my time with more of this sludge come February. This has just become too painful to watch considering how interesting this show once was. I can't count how many times I've said to myself, "What the f--- is this lame crap?" during this season so far, but this episode was definitely a new low.

I just want all of the "others," plus Jack, Kate and Sawyer to die. The Locke/Desmond/Sayid tribe still interests me, barely, but this current tangent is just so dull and endlessly mysterious.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Sawyer didn't kill Picket's wife. Why does he hold him responsible? God this was lame.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Well, I for one, *loved it*. That was Lost at its best. I completely didn't expect him to cut into Ben -- I thought the X-Rays were a set up. Do they even have X-Ray equipment there? It was taken only a week ago (or did they just put a blank on his back and get him to belly-up to the Swan hatch? Kate's cop hubby -- have we seen him before? He was *very* familiar. Nice twist at the end when Jack turned the tables on them. Of course it's all just a *very* long con (Ben did say to Sawyer that they were better at it than he was).


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## MegaHertz67 (Apr 18, 2005)

Why doesn't anybody ask the "Others" any direct questions?

"Why are you here?"

"If you can leave, why don't you?"

"If you have access to x-ray equipment, a sterile operating room and all of the instruments, why don't you have a surgeon that can perform surgery?

If you really are the good guys, why dont you prove it and do something worthy of the title like help the survivors instead of screw with them?

Dont get me wrong, I enjoy the show. I know it is getting somewhere. But can it get there a little sooner please?


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

wprager said:


> Kate's cop hubby -- have we seen him before? He was *very* familiar.


Nathan Fillion. Played Malcolm Reynolds, former Brown Coat, Captain of Serenity (Firefly class vessel).


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## kjnorman (Jun 21, 2002)

I agree that this was fairly dull.

I am not sure if I can be bothered to continue to watch it when it comes back in February...


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

drew2k said:


> Nathan Fillion. Played Malcolm Reynolds, former Brown Coat, Captain of Serenity (Firefly class vessel).


Thanks, that's it (I haven't seen the series, but watched the feature; my friends have the series on DVD and it will be filling in the void between finishing BSG 2.5 and when season 3 comes out on DVD). Another Canuck on the show, and they're not even filming it in Vancouver


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

We'll, if you all hold true to your threats, Lost threads should be a lot easier to read next year. However, I'll be surprised if more than 1 person leaves.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

drew2k said:


> I don't know if I'll be in the minority, but I absolutely hated this episode, and I think I now feel official Lost frustration.


Good to see I'm not alone so far, in this thread and in a few online articles ...

Is Lost fascinating or frustrating its fans? Show prepares to go on three-month hiatus  Will viewers wait?

'Lost:' Tangled up in darkness

Counterpoint: 'Lost' Still, a rare find on TV


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

kjnorman said:


> I agree that this was fairly dull.
> 
> I am not sure if I can be bothered to continue to watch it when it comes back in February...


OK, can I make a bet with all of you who insist you're done with this? If you post 13 weeks from now you owe me a quarter.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

LordKronos said:


> We'll, if you all hold true to your threats, Lost threads should be a lot easier to read next year. However, I'll be surprised if more than 1 person leaves.


I already know I'll be back in February, just to see if this frakking island (read: writers) will start revealing answers.

I'm actually hoping there's somewhat of a fan backlash with this fall-finale, and that the show runners realize they don't need to live by the motto "slow and steady wins the race." Start throwing us some bones!


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

wprager said:


> Well, I for one, *loved it*. That was Lost at its best. I completely didn't expect him to cut into Ben -- I thought the X-Rays were a set up. Do they even have X-Ray equipment there? It was taken only a week ago (or did they just put a blank on his back and get him to belly-up to the Swan hatch? Kate's cop hubby -- have we seen him before? He was *very* familiar. Nice twist at the end when Jack turned the tables on them. Of course it's all just a *very* long con (Ben did say to Sawyer that they were better at it than he was).


We must be alone here....I loved it too. I was screaming at my tv and clutching hubbys hand. Thought the line that Jack gives Ben about "I didn't say I was going to do it....and Ben says something about being disappointed. Jack looks at him and says 'at least you won't be disappointed for long.' that was great!!! :up:

Why can't it be accepted that things have changed on the show, but that it hasn't gone to hell in a hand basket? The show is still awesome, even though it's not what you were expecting. And the change is good. The questions are still there...but others have been answered. More insight to the characters and they are growing/changing/flexing as they stay on the island.

I would like more inter character communication....but that is almost a trademark of Lost now.

So, on tomorrows menu at the Others breakfast? Kidney pie?


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

wprager said:


> Kate's cop hubby -- have we seen him before? He was *very* familiar. Nice twist at the end when Jack turned the tables on them. Of course it's all just a *very* long con (Ben did say to Sawyer that they were better at it than he was).


No, no, you're wrong. He is Caleb from Buffy the Vampire Slayer.


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## caslu (Jun 24, 2003)

Guess I'm also in the minority here since I thought the episode was Lost at it's best...and definitely one of the best this season (which admittedly, has not been as good as s1 or s2 but is still way better than most of the stuff on TV - watching Jericho before Lost only makes Lost seem that much better).

Maybe I was just glad to see Jack sticking it to the Others and finally getting the upper hand for a change but whatever the reason, the cliffhanger left me wanting more... in a good way.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

I won't say that I'll stop watching the show, becuase I won't. However, I won't miss the show while it's gone for 3 months, and won't be on the edge of my seat the night it comes back.

Thumbs down for me, last week was better.

Z


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

pcguru83 said:


> Wow...just wow. This episode was a joke, right? This episode was just some kind of bit, a skit maybe? We get the real cliff-hanger next week, right? _Right?_


Why?

I don't get it... have you guys really been watching the same show as me all this time? This was classic "Lost" at its best. Loved it. The only bad part was that it'll be 3 months until the next episode.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

Yeah. Lame epsiode. Gave us nothing really. Well now we know there is a JACOB character. Another higher up or something. FUN!

And didn't the backstories in S1 and S2 have some connection with the other characters on the island? Wasn't that the nice twist of the back stories to show how everything on the island is connected to some degree? But now they just stories from the past that don't really have ANY connection with the others on the island and don't take the characters anywhere. Who cares if Kate left yet another man. WE ALREADY KNEW SHE WAS A DIRYTY WHORE! She doesn't do taco night. WHO CARES!

Sick of lame backstories. Sick of dragged out story lines that never get answered and the pile up of 100 more questions. I am not wanting all the answers but I am wanting something interesting to watch. Kates backstory was a WASTE OF TIME. Just like Lockes backstory was, Jacks, Sawyer, Jin and EKo. NO CONNECTIONS and no real advancement. LAME!

I will watch in the Fall but only because I have Tivo and won't have to think about it. But Season 3 might be the end for me if they keep this crap up. YES CRAP!

And the fact you can even bring Jericho up in the same sentence as Lost shows you how much Lost has fallen off its once high level. Jericho is junk on a good premise and so is LOST now. Sad...


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## TheDewAddict (Aug 21, 2002)

I didn't think it was the best episode, but it wasn't the worst either. 50 minutes of "blah, who cares" followed by a pretty decent 12 minutes at the end. It's not the show it once was, but I still generally enjoy watching it.


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## kjnorman (Jun 21, 2002)

wprager said:


> OK, can I make a bet with all of you who insist you're done with this? If you post 13 weeks from now you owe me a quarter.


Yeah I will probably owe you a quarter! But my excuse will be that my wife likes it and there are so few shows we watch together these days. So I'll "suffer" it for the sake of my family


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## flyersfan (Nov 11, 2002)

I'm also in the "it was OK, but not amazing" camp. I think I'm still in shock/denial about Eko being gone. I *loved* that character and thought he was interesting enough to fill 1/2 a season's worth of back-story without getting boring.

I agree that seeing Jack gain the upper hand was nice. And remember, Ben didn't promise to take him off the island, he promised to send him HOME. He can't dump him back with the other survivors on a technicality (although I don't guarantee Ben will honor his word).

The most frustrating thing about Lost, and it's something we'll almost certainly never have resolved, is the lack of a direction question. Can't SOMEONE sit down with Ben and ask "why?" to a dozen or more questions? They're trying to make the world better and/or save it - how? Wouldn't I be more likely to join your cause (or should I call it a cult) if you explain exactly what you're trying to do instead of manipulating/beating/terrorizing me? Even Scientologists aren't as obtuse.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

betts4 said:


> Thought the line that Jack gives Ben about "I didn't say I was going to do it....and Ben says something about being disappointed. Jack looks at him and says 'at least you won't be disappointed for long.' that was great!!! :up:


I liked that too, and it really shows how much Jack has changed with events. He was always known for poor bedside manner, but this was icy cold.

Overall, I thought the episode was pretty good, and the last 15 minutes were really good, but it does not come near being the best one which, btw, is undisputably Walkabout, and whatever is second is a distant second, maybe where Hurley wins the lottery, or where Robert Patrick sends Sawyer to kill the wrong guy. (Hmm, just realized that, at least to me, the best episodes relate heavily to the backstory.)

NatasNJ -- As for Kates backstory being a waste of time. Agreed. But hers are always among the worst.

Another thing I liked was that Jack changed his mind after seeing Kate and Sawyer together, although I am not entirely sure what that signifies.

So, do you think Kate and Sawyer really did it? All they really showed was topless kissing, and this is Lost, so we cannot be sure.


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## renov (Jan 27, 2006)

I thought the episode was ok. I think the reason I didn't like it more is because I was expecting alot more. It was built up a lot and was touted as being a finale for the fall season. It just didn't have the feel of a season finale which is what I was expecting. 

I took what the guy said about Sheppard not being on Jacob's list to mean that Ben decided to take him on his own when he found out he was a spinal surgeon and would be able to operate on him if he could convince him to. It's amazing how one little piece of dialogue can produce so many questions. 

Could Jacob be eye-patch guy?


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## avery (May 29, 2006)

In general, the lack of "answers" doesn't bother me as much as it does some others. If the "book" interests me, I'm putting my trust in the author and not skipping to the last chapter to see how it ends. 

That aside though, this episode was really disappointing in every other way. And made worse because it was the "big build-up" mini-season finale to leave us with. Maybe it might have passed for just a weak episode if it wasn't. It didn't resonate with me. Should have been far better. 

Even so, I'll be watching in February.


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## renov (Jan 27, 2006)

mqpickles said:


> I liked that too, and it really shows how much Jack has changed with events. He was always known for poor bedside manner, but this was icy cold.
> 
> Overall, I thought the episode was pretty good, and the last 15 minutes were really good, but it does not come near being the best one which, btw, is undisputably Walkabout, and whatever is second is a distant second, maybe where Hurley wins the lottery, or where Robert Patrick sends Sawyer to kill the wrong guy. (Hmm, just realized that, at least to me, the best episodes relate heavily to the backstory.)
> 
> ...


Uh oh. Here we go again with a did they or didn't they discussion.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Wow. Some 35 posts so far and only 4 or 5 people actually liked the episode.

Did I call it or what? 

It's just getting so glaringly stupid. Either the writers have to pull something really major, or this show is just going to dwindle further towards stupidity as the writers reveal they were just playing a joke with the whole series and they had no idea where to go after the pilot but thought they'd meander around and make it look like there was meaning everywhere.

One of about 3,000 things I'd have done way differently then Jack is to have immediately asked how Kate got there is the place is supposedly under water. Everybody just accepts all the nonsense and never asks a question once they get told something.

But really I'm just amazed at all the people who're really disliking or disappointed in this episode. Even I didn't think it was THAT bad. 

On a positive note, it was good to see Nathan Fillion again.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

zordude said:


> I won't say that I'll stop watching the show, becuase I won't. However, I won't miss the show while it's gone for 3 months, and won't be on the edge of my seat the night it comes back.
> 
> Thumbs down for me, last week was better.
> 
> Z


I approve this message! 

Episode 5 showed so much promise. This was a letdown, to me. Put me also in the camp that hasn't understood most of the flashbacks this season. They just seem ... disjointed is the best to say it. Kate's always on the run, can't settle down? Thanks for clearing that one up.

And I hate the silly plot device of Pickett wanting to kill Sawyer. I can't take it seriously.

Even Locke went back to secretive Locke mode, a change from last week. On the bright side, we didn't have to listen to the new birds Heckle and Jeckle talk.

Oh, and Kate couldn't tell Jack they were on "Alcatraz" when they saw each other. Kate didn't find out until later on from Sawyer.

Not the best episode to end the "fall season" on.


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## Philly Bill (Oct 6, 2004)

I liked it. I like them all though. I sure wouldn't watch it if it pissed me off as much as it seems to some of you.

Looks like Sawyer is the only one getting any on this island. Twice now... from the two hottest chicks. In a cage under surveilance even. :up:


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## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

MegaHertz67 said:


> Why doesn't anybody ask the "Others" any direct questions?


The annoying thing is that when they do ask someone a direct question, the person dosn't respond...whether its the "others" or someone in their own group.

February??? Day Break better be damn good!!!


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Dnamertz said:


> February??? Day Break better be damn good!!!


 That reminds me, I thought it was pretty cheap that ABC is promising to show little Lost snippets/teasers during episodes of Daybreak.

No thanks. I'll watch Daybreak on its own merits or (more likely) skip it and do something else with my life for a while.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Well, I'm disappointed in the amount of vitriolic whining from such fairweather fans of LOST. :down: 

I enjoyed the episode.

And the line about "Shepard wasn't even on Jacob's list" was obviously significant.
Looking forward to February when it picks up from where it left off. :up: :up:


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

I liked it. Not Lost at it's best, but good enough.

I do wish they'd stop focussing so much on the Other's camp and work all the rest of the cast back in to the plot somehow.

I also don't get the complaints about not asking questions. What show have you been watching? That is and always has been Lost's style.


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## PhantomDilbert (Nov 6, 2005)

I liked it. I'll keep watching it. It wasn't the best episode but I think the interview below shows the producers do get it...and will deliver. Courtesy of a co-worker..

Spoilers below...

Heres an interview with the shows producers and TV Guide. Hallelujah - they will finally explain how Locke ended up in the wheelchair! And double Hallelujah  no Michael and WAAAAAAAAAAAAAALT this season J

Hello!
Damon Lindelof: Congratulations on your 100th column.
Carlton Cuse: Yes, congratulations.

Thank you! We have limited time, so I'm going to cut right to the chase. More than anything, AA readers wanna know if Michael and/or Walt will appear this season.
Carlton: We have a very clear plan for this season, and I don't think we'll get back to Michael and Walt's story this season.
With Eko gone, you no longer have any African-American men in the cast.
Carlton: Harold Perrineau's story is not finished. He is not on the show currently, but I think everybody is very curious to know what happened to Michael and Walt, and we hope to get back to that story. That character is still out there in the Lost universe.

One frustration I'm hearing is that viewers don't understand why you would bring in new characters like Paolo (Rodrigo Santoro) and Nikki (Kiele Sanchez) when it seems like you're already having trouble servicing the original characters.
Damon: That's a legitimate concern, and I wouldn't say that we have difficulty servicing the initial cast. I do think that we acknowledge that the franchise of Lost  if there was one since we don't have bodies on gurneys or clients coming into law firms  is the introduction of new characters. We basically get two criticisms: One is that we're not with our main people enough, and the other is [that people are] sick and tired of seeing redundant flashback stories. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. And another criticism we've been getting since the very beginning of the show is, "How come we never hear from, or incorporate into the story, the other passengers, the ones who are sort of carrying logs around in the background?" Obviously we knew it'd be tricky starting to fold Rodrigo and Kiele into the show as if they'd been there all along. But it was an effort on our part to sort of deal with two out of those three criticisms. Although the inevitable, Why aren't we spending more time with Claire instead of spending time with people we don't know yet?" was going to come up. We suffer the slings and arrows of criticisms at almost every creative turn, and again, it's all in the service of the uber-story that is Lost.

Personally, I'd be happy if the show just featured Matthew Fox, Michael Emerson and Elizabeth Mitchell every week.
Damon: We're going to spin them off. It's going to be called "Ben & Friends."

One other complaint I'm hearing this season is that new mysteries are being presented before old ones are solved. Can you say anything about that?
Carlton: We're always in this sort of balancing act. [We want] to keep the audience engaged by the underlying mysteries of the show, but we also want to try to answer questions and give people some satisfaction. And I think maybe the pendulum has swung a little too much into the Well, we need more answers category, and we try to be attentive to that. I think there are some upcoming episodes  after the break in the spring  that will answer a number of the open questions. We certainly plan to tell the audience this year how Locke got in the wheelchair.
Damon: We'll be getting a lot more detailed about what happened to Locke, Eko and Desmond following the immediate aftermath of the hatch exploding, imploding or potentially doing something else.
Carlton: We're doing a flashback story where you'll find out how Jack got his tattoos. 
Damon: And we'll begin peeling back layers of who the Others are, how long they've been on the island, what their origins are. That's really the sort of uber-plot of Season 3. And here's the thing: At the end of season 2, we downloaded a hell of a lot of mythology in those last couple episodes. We explained why the plane crashed and whether or not the button was the real deal. But at the same time, every time we close one door we have to open up another or else we risk falling victim to the Twin Peaks curse, which is that once they told you who killed Laura Palmer, there was no reason to watch the show anymore. 
Carlton: What you might also be feeling is that kind of sense that we're basically working on Episode 60, so that's a lot of hours to not know, What's the nature of this island? Where is this island?" The overarching mysteries of Lost remain unanswered. But those questions have to remain unanswered until the show ends. That's something we don't know and we're not in control of when it is going to end. We will attempt to answer some of the transitory questions, but obviously, the big ones have to stay unanswered.

Will Adewale be back for that flashback episode you just referred to?
Damon: It might not necessarily be a flashback episode.

But you said we're going to go back and find out what happened right after the hatch imploded or whatever.
Damon: Yes, we are. It might be a flashback, but we're not going to tell you how that information gets relayed.
Carlton: It might be a flash-forward or a flash-sideways.
Damon: It will certainly be a flash-something.
Carlton: It could be a flash in the pan.
Damon: Look, here's the thing, Michael. We believe audiences aren't really asking, When are we going to get our answers? They're asking, "Are we going to get our answers?" And that's a very savvy question for them to be asking, because of the nature of the television business, it's sort of like, "Are they just stringing us along?" And all Carlton and I can say is that we are absolutely committed to giving you those answers. We know what the answers are, and we're telling them in the most creatively satisfying way for us as storytellers.

A reader named Denise sent in what I think is a really good question. When the plane crashed, Ben told Goodwin that if he ran he could be at the crash site in an hour. Now if they're on two different islands, how could he possibly do that? Walk on water?
Carlton: That island isn't necessarily where they live. It's not necessarily the same place where we saw those guys in the beginning of the teaser of the season premiere this year. I think that would be a very reasonable explanation as to how Goodwin and Ethan could run from the Others' home camp to the crash site.

OK. Another reader, Baude, wants to know when we're going to find out what happened to those kids who were abducted. 
Damon: I think you'll begin to get a real sense of the answer to that question in about the second episode back after the break  a very real sense.

Does it tie in at all to the fact that Juliet's a fertility doctor?
Damon: I think that's a reasonable connection.

Is the guy with the eye patch going to figure prominently this season?
Carlton: Oh yeah.
Damon: Prominently.

And what about the outside world?
Damon: Obviously, this is the big sort of dangler from Season 2. We broke perspective off the island for the first time  at least that's what we're leading everybody to believe  and, certainly, that ball is in motion and rolling down the hill at a very fast rate. That is pretty much what begins to dominate Season 3 once we come back from the break. It takes a couple of episodes to get up to speed, but the fact that the island may have been seen is pretty much the entire story arc of the second half of the year.

Is it too soon to talk about what this season's "challah" will be?
Carlton: Yes.
Damon: We've already gone on record as saying we're going to call it the "matzo" this year.
Carlton: Our biggest concern on the show is that we're going to run out of Jewish bread products.
Damon: There aren't that many.

Is there going to be a sort of "challah"-type thing at the end of tonight's episode?
Carlton: No.
Damon: It's not a game-changer. 
Carlton: But there's a good cliff-hanger.
Damon: It's a much more conventional cliff-hanger in the vein of Jack Bauer going on a slow boat to China. 
Carlton: We believe it's a cliff-hanger that will make the audience want to come back and watch the show when it picks up in February.
Damon: It will hopefully be good enough to incur major frustration from the audience as to "How dare we go off the air for 13 weeks and leave them hanging in that fashion!"
Carlton: The angrier we make them the better the cliff-hanger is, I guess.

You guys have been quoted as saying you're going to drop a "bomb" during the second half of the season. 
Damon: There are two bombs being dropped, one of which is a character bomb, and that will happen within the first three episodes after the break. And the other is a more significant story bomb, a game-changer, as it were, and that will happen shortly after.


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## skinnyjm (Feb 10, 2005)

Great, a LOVE triangle.
The only two differences between LOST and a daytime soap...
LOST airs in the evening and only once per week...but now...not until February 2007! :down: 

What's gonna happen???,
the last 30 seconds of the last LOST episode,
PeeWee Herman will wake up in his flannel PJs, stretch out his arms and say "Wow!, That was a weird dream".


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

The Kate scenes with her cop husband were there to show that Kate is not capable of "settling down'"with a good man. 
It was needed to show why she picked Ford over Jack.

And I don't have a problem with Pickett hating Ford. He's a convenient target and Ford ain't that lovable.

And in February, 


Spoiler



all your questions will be answered in the first two episodes and the next 14 will consist of an hour of recorded organ music.


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## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

PhantomDilbert said:


> Damon: It's a much more conventional cliff-hanger in the vein of Jack Bauer going on a slow boat to China.
> ...
> Damon: There are two bombs being dropped, one of which is a character bomb, and that will happen within the first three episodes after the break. And the other is a more significant story bomb, a game-changer, as it were, and that will happen shortly after.


Seriously they couldn't have included a bit of a bomb to carry us over until February? Especially when they have TWO lined up before the season finale, which will most likely be the third ("the matzo"). My fiancee and I joked that Jack would open up Ben and find a Dharma logo on his organs. Cheesy, but would have had more punch than this.

And they can't touch 24 for holding an audiences interest. Jack on a boat to China was more cliffhanger than anything in this episode and 24 in general has been able to take a relatively small premise and grow it bigger and bigger with each season topping itself and being better than the last. This when they had a nuke go off halfway through season two. L O S T (oh and how i used to love it to death) has done the opposite and taken a huge premise and explained it away little by little until its shrunk and become less interesting.

The first season was full of mystery and mysterious things. Black rocks, Others, visions, miraculous healing, psychic children. numbers, french women, monsters, polar bears, sickness and lots of revealing backstories with lots of numbers and connections. Almost all of which you didn't see coming in advance.

Now you have a guy with an eyepatch and a foot with four toes. Oh and Desmond that might see the future. But they took all the creepiness and mystery out of everything except the monster, and nothing that they have introduced carries that sense of forboding. And that was a key ingredient in season one. And part of two.

No story element or image has been like the pilot in the tree or the sound of the monster. The column of smoke or the bare feet sneaking through the jungle. The revelation that some one with the survivors wasn't on the plane. Sayid suddenly getting captured and interrogated in french. Finding a metal door in the ground on a deserted island. A godly beam of light shining up. The "cursed" numbers on the hatch. A slave ship inland. A boat appearing silently out of the dark, demanding your child, and then blowing up your raft.

I want creepy mysterious lost of season one back. I'm not worried about what is answered when. Or which characters are hooking up with who. Do whatever you want with that, but what happened to the creepy season one L O S T?


----------



## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

I'm shocked it's the next day and only 1 page, made smeeking easier


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## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

From TVSquad:

Eko's Prayer stick was different than last time Locke had it -- just after it fell from the trees. This time -- someone had added more scripture to it. Who?Don't know if it matters or not --

If this is true, and it did change, I totally did not catch it. I just thought the north quote caught his eye.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

flyersfan said:


> I agree that seeing Jack gain the upper hand was nice. And remember, Ben didn't promise to take him off the island, he promised to send him HOME. He can't dump him back with the other survivors on a technicality (although I don't guarantee Ben will honor his word).


In THIS episode, Jack told Ben, "I want what you promised me - I want to get off this island." Ben responded that he would make it happen. In THIS episode, neither Ben nor Jack discussed taking Jack home, so certainly, Ben can dump Jack on the other island and keep his promise.

By the way, in the earlier episode, where Jack did talk about going home, Ben said he could do it but no one ever said where "home" was. For Jack, home for the last two months has been a beach-side tent on a mysterious island.

Why do I quibble so? Because of the feckless nature of the show so far this season ...


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Vito the TiVo said:


> From TVSquad:
> 
> Eko's Prayer stick was different than last time Locke had it -- just after it fell from the trees. This time -- someone had added more scripture to it. Who?Don't know if it matters or not --
> 
> If this is true, and it did change, I totally did not catch it. I just thought the north quote caught his eye.


This was the quote I posted earlier about casting your eyes up and looking to the north. It was on the prayer stick and Locke noted the new quote.

I believe I first saw this on the prayer stick in the 3rd episode, when we saw the aftermath of the hatch explosion.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

MSNBC has an analysis of the fall finale and Season 3 that says much better than I could what I am finding troubling about the show so far this season:

Why are the Lost bad guys so dumb? (Fall season cliffhanger doesn't leave viewers on edge of their seats)


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

kjnorman said:


> Yeah I will probably owe you a quarter! But my excuse will be that my wife likes it and there are so few shows we watch together these days. So I'll "suffer" it for the sake of my family


Oh, like I did a couple of years ago with AI. And now I'm hooked.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

They kill off the deep and interesting Eko but continue the shallow and lame Sawyer-Kate-Jack triangle? Why do I care which one Kate loves? She'll just be in love and making booty calls with the other one a couple of months from now.

There's not a single thing that make sense in the Others-centric plot. Nothing. I'm beginning to believe that the Lost producers outsourced this season to a group of fan fiction writers. I hate the Others and I don't mean "hate" as in good vs. evil. I mean "hate" as in "You're illogical, silly and an unwanted, seemingly never ending plot diversion. Get off my tv."

And, yes I'll still be watching when this show comes back in February. I'm invested in my bitterness. Next season is very much in question, though.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Count me among the few that liked this episode and the whole season so far.

[ill-timed Rumsfeld mode]

Are there things I would have done differently? Yes.

Are there things that annoy me about the show? Yes.

Am I as frustrated as some of the other fans? No way.

Will I be back in February? Of course!

[/ill-timed Rumsfeld mode]

I was so sick of Alias after the third season that I stopped watching it for good. I am nowhere near sick of LOST.

I have no reason to think that Ben (if he lives) will free Jack. After all, as far as we know, they freed Walt & Michael.

I also have no problem with the changes we have seen in Kate. After all, she has gone through quite a bit on these islands. That could take a lot of fight out of someone. Now she is conflicted between her feelings for Sawyer & Jack. She doesn't know why Sawyer suddenly gave up his fighting (when he though his heart would explode).

Yes, the flashbacks this season have been different since they don't interconnect characters, but I am just gonna wait and see what the writers want me to see.

I just don't feel the need to be playing armchair quarterback. If I could make shows better than these people, I certainly wouldn't be sitting in rural Indiana working on computers!


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Vito the TiVo said:


> The first season was full of mystery and mysterious things. Black rocks, Others, visions, miraculous healing, psychic children. numbers, french women, monsters, polar bears, sickness and lots of revealing backstories with lots of numbers and connections. Almost all of which you didn't see coming in advance.
> 
> Now you have a guy with an eyepatch and a foot with four toes. Oh and Desmond that might see the future. But they took all the creepiness and mystery out of everything except the monster, and nothing that they have introduced carries that sense of forboding. And that was a key ingredient in season one. And part of two.
> 
> ...


 :up: Great post! Only, I like the guy with the eye patch, and love the foot with four toes. For me, the four-toed statue has the same power that the Black Rock and Adam & Eve did in suggesting a strange and fantastic history of the island. And Eye Patch recaptures some of the fear and awe that the Others instilled. But, those two things only took up seconds of screen time. For the most part, the Others storyline has been dull.


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

Please, all the bashers...go watch CSI: North Dakota or something. They give you answers EVERY week. Enjoy. Would make this thread much more bearable.

This is the best show on TV bar none. Nothing gets people talking like Lost. The fact that some are so frustrated is a testament to how good the show is. 

- Looks like Ben raised Alex (or is a father figure). Alex wanted to see him and Ben was worried about her. Juliet lied to Ben about her asking about him. Another interesting mystery to watch unfold. Alex also claimed that they killed her boyfriend which I assume is the guy in the cage.

- Zeke went from bada$$ to wimp really quickly.

- No Michael or Walt? That stinks.

- I'm in the camp that Ben really is a the noble one and Juliet is not.

- I'm thinking Jacob is probably Ethan. Since Ethan is the one that made the list of the fusies.


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

Great episode. I enjoyed the cliffhanger. It's nice seeing the Losties take charge for a bit, although I'm not sure how Jack will get out of there when he's done operating on Ben. Since he pulled this stunt, I'm sure that could invalidate his deal.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Another thing... A slingshot?


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

I'm in the "ho-hum for the first 50 minutes then GREAT ENDING" camp.

Jack getting the upper hand and Zeke seeming genuinely terrified at the prospect of Ben dieing was great! :up:

If Ben dies does this leave Juliet the leader? Is Zeke horrified at this possibility?

Not the best episode ever but a decent mid-season cliffhanger.

The risk ABC is taking, IMHO, is that the 2.75 month hiatus will let some fans "forget" about the show and they won't come back. Not because they "hated" the show, but because their enthusiasm for it waned over that amount of time.

I'll be back, however.


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## Rinkdog (Dec 21, 2005)

It is a TV show. It's purpse is to entertain. C'mon, if they answered everything in one episode or got off the island somehow there would be no show for next week. Thank god there was no internet when Giligan's Island was on. I sure some of you people would have gone bonkers with the weekly we almost escaped tease. If you can't stand something different in a TV sho please do yourself a favor and just watch one of the 17 versions of C.S.I. or Law and Order.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

mask2343 said:


> Please, all the bashers...go watch CSI: North Dakota or something. [snip]
> 
> - No Michael or Walt? That stinks.


Do you want answers every week? Maybe this show isn't for you. Leave it to those of us sophisticated enough to appreciate it. May I suggest "Blue's Clues"? I think you'll find it's mystery show more your speed.

KIDDING!


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Rinkdog said:


> If you can't stand something different in a TV sho please do yourself a favor and just watch one of the 17 versions of C.S.I. or Law and Order.





mask2343 said:


> Please, all the bashers...go watch CSI: North Dakota or something.


Wow! You two must subscribe to the same mailing list or something.


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## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

Aha! A picture apparently taken of a recent Lost set shows an important clue as to the nature of the Island!

Picture

Could this mean that



Spoiler



the Island is in the alternate reality that was being taken over by the Cybermen, and is a refuge from the big robotmen who can't cross the ocean? And the red police call box is the TARDIS of that universe?


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

JYoung said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> all your questions will be answered in the first two episodes and the next 14 will consist of an hour of recorded organ music.


<whiny Lost hater mode>Yeah, but they'll probably never tell us who was


Spoiler



playing the organ


</whiny Lost hater mode>


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

It's not a matter of wanting all of the answers. It's a matter of just getting a few of the answers. Answering one not so big question all the while providing thirty more questions is not progress. This show now has so many dangling plot points that it is making the Sopranos seem like a tight ship. 

My wife and I watched the first two seasons on DVD right before this season started. We were completely addicted. Though it did lose it's way a bit in the middle of season two. It pulled us back in during the final stretch. I really enjoyed the first threes episodes of this season, but the last few have gotten weaker and weaker. They should have stuck with their original plan and kept the others 2 or 3 episode arc instead of trying to stretch it into 6 or 7. It just isn't going anywhere. 

I have also reached a point of being sick of the "main" characters back stories. Yes I do want to know why Locke was crippled. But that is all I want to know. I don't need an episode wasted on Jack's day at the tattoo parlor. I certainly never need another Charlie, Kate, or Sawyer flashback again. What I need are just a couple of the 20 or so big answers that we are waiting for, and for Charlie and Kate to die horrible deaths.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

NatasNJ said:


> Yeah. Lame epsiode. Gave us nothing really. Well now we know there is a JACOB character. Another higher up or something. FUN!


Yeah, and he probably has an eye patch.



NatasNJ said:


> Sick of lame backstories. Sick of dragged out story lines that never get answered and the pile up of 100 more questions.


Well, maybe they'll eventually put out a sepcial DVD set of just the storyline without the backstories -- like they did with X-Files (mythology set).



NatasNJ said:


> I am not wanting all the answers but I am wanting something interesting to watch.


Well, I was interested. In fact I was close to riveted. Even though I knew they wouldn't kill off Sawyer (or would they?) I was on edge.



NatasNJ said:


> Kates backstory was a WASTE OF TIME. Just like Lockes backstory was, Jacks, Sawyer, Jin and EKo. NO CONNECTIONS and no real advancement. LAME!


I'll give you that one. We learned that Kate was (maybe still is) married (I say maybe because she must have traded those tickets for a ticket to Hawaii, and I have not idea how long she was in Hawaii before the Marshall caught up with her). And not much else, I'm afraid. Maybe we'll be seeing more of Nathan Fillion in the future.



NatasNJ said:


> I will watch in the Fall but only because I have Tivo and won't have to think about it. But Season 3 might be the end for me if they keep this crap up. YES CRAP!


Are you sure you want to wait until Fall?


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

drew2k said:


> This was the quote I posted earlier about casting your eyes up and looking to the north. It was on the prayer stick and Locke noted the new quote.
> 
> I believe I first saw this on the prayer stick in the 3rd episode, when we saw the aftermath of the hatch explosion.


The quotation is from Genesis, but immediately after the quote we see John 3:5, with the chapter:verse part much less visible than John. Taken together, it appeared as being directed to Locke:

"Lift up your eyes and look North" John


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

I thought this was great episode of Lost, taken by itself. And I can't believe people are *****ing that it won't be back until February. I love this no repeat format. It's brilliant. But I have a much bigger gripe.

Part of the producers concession for having the six episodes now and fourteen when we come back was that this would play out like a six part mini-series and be resolved at the end. LIARS! Now I don't know whether to believe it or not when they say they're not in purgatory. I mean, this is really taking the audience for a trip if they're going to tell such bold-faced lies. I'll be back, of course. Anyone who can stick with season 3 of Alias can stick with this show for long run.


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## bqmeister (May 13, 2006)

I'm doubtful the numbers will ever be brought up again. I'll be shocked if we see them again.

for that, I'm upset with Lost, but I liked this episode and will continue to watch.

And I welcome this hiatus. 13 weeks or so is perfect for me. Plenty of time to setup my HD Projector.

No more lost in SD for me!


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

NoThru22 said:


> Part of the producers concession for having the six episodes now and fourteen when we come back was that this would play out like a six part mini-series and be resolved at the end. LIARS! Now I don't know whether to believe it or not when they say they're not in purgatory. I mean, this is really taking the audience for a trip if they're going to tell such bold-faced lies. I'll be back, of course. Anyone who can stick with season 3 of Alias can stick with this show for long run.


A thought just struck me (ouch) -- the _producers_ are The Others.


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## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

JYoung said:


> The Kate scenes with her cop husband were there to show that Kate is not capable of "settling down'"with a good man.
> It was needed to show why she picked Ford over Jack.


Exactly. Kate can't be with someone whom she feels couldn't "handle" her past. Sawyer can, Jack....well, we don't know. This plays into that dynamic established waaaay back in season 1 where she started to tell Jack, and he said it didn't matter. Then later Jack did ask her about it - but it was too late in Kate's eyes, particularly as Jack was being accusatory and confrontational at the time.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

wprager said:


> The quotation is from Genesis, but immediately after the quote we see John 3:5, with the chapter:verse part much less visible than John. Taken together, it appeared as being directed to Locke:
> 
> "Lift up your eyes and look North" John


That's exactly how I read it!


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

flyersfan said:


> They're trying to make the world better and/or save it - how? Wouldn't I be more likely to join your cause (or should I call it a cult) if you explain exactly what you're trying to do instead of manipulating/beating/terrorizing me? Even Scientologists aren't as obtuse.


Actually, its interesting that you mention Scientology. Do you know the real story that Scientologists believe? About the alien space lord Xenu? Its a story that they don't tell their followers right away. If you aren't familiar with Xenu, read a few paragraphs on that link before continuing on with this post.

Now think about it. Imagine a Scientologist is trying to recruit you. If they tell you about Xenu right off the bat, you'll laugh your @$$ off at them and walk away. Instead, they keep it a secret until you've invested quite a bit of money (according to this page, the cost to make it to OT III and learn this part of their doctrine is $33,835). Now, once you've invested as much time and money into the church as it takes to reach OT III level, if they tell you the story of Xenu, you have 2 options:

1) Accept the story
2) Realize how crazy it is, and suddenly come to grips with the fact that you've wasted a lot of time and money on (and invested your life and beliefs in) a bunch of crazy whack jobs

People don't accept such a sudden blow as #2 so easily. Most would subconsciously "choose" option 1 just because its a lot more comforting.

Now apply this back to lost. What if what the Others are doing is something just as crazy as believing in Xenu?

Manipulating/beating/terrorizing are time proven methods to break someone's will and get them to join you. Its been done both to prisoners of war as well as by kidnappers. It doesn't always work, but there are plenty of stories of it working.


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## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

NoThru22 said:


> And I can't believe people are *****ing that it won't be back until February. I love this no repeat format. It's brilliant.


I couldn't agree more! I was one of those thoroughly disgusted with ABC rationing us a couple episodes at a time last year, all sandwiched between reruns during the holiday season. I can find other things to watch between now and February (just as I did during all the reruns last year).

Cheryl


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## jr461 (Jul 9, 2004)

I thought the episode was good overall, however, as mentioned earlier, I don't know why at the very end on the intercom Kate didn't tell Jack that they were on a different island and that there was no place to run. This was well after she learned of this from Sawyer. A little hole in his plan.

I am also getting a little tired of the backstories, but there is still a tie in. Not only the one mentioned earlier concerning Kate's inability to stay in one place causing her not to choose the "good" man on the island, but also the exchange where settling down and not running anymore would get the authorities off her back. Does she believe them? Same on the island - do they believe Ben that he will let them go if Jack does the operation.

I like the hiatus rather than showing 1 or 2 eposides, then 2-3 weeks off, then 1-2 on, then 2-3 off. Take a break and then continue uninterrupted.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

wprager said:


> I'll give you that one. We learned that Kate was (maybe still is) married (I say maybe because she must have traded those tickets for a ticket to Hawaii, and I have not idea how long she was in Hawaii before the Marshall caught up with her). And not much else, I'm afraid. Maybe we'll be seeing more of Nathan Fillion in the future.


I think that you mean Australia and not Hawaii.
And since Kate didn't use her real name, the marriage isn't legal.

I do have to say that I don't think that this was a huge cliffhanger but I suspect that I'm a lot more patient than other people when it comes to this.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

I'm happy with the current 6+break+14 format, but personally, I would prefer the 24 treatment...don't give us anything until January and do it in one big block. Its possible that with all the complaints about this 3 month break from Nov to Feb, they'll decide its better to just wait it out and do it in 1 run next season.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

mqpickles said:


> Another thing I liked was that Jack changed his mind after seeing Kate and Sawyer together, although I am not entirely sure what that signifies.


I was thinking along the lines of: if you really love someone, you want them to be happy, even if doing so doesn't make you happy. When jack saw the monitor and realized that the 2 of them had had hooked up, he figured that he had to save sawyer for her.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

mask2343 said:


> - I'm thinking Jacob is probably Ethan. Since Ethan is the one that made the list of the fusies.


No. We saw in the season opener that Ben called him Ethan even before the plane crashed.


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## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

So I'm assuming they let Kate and Sawyer get in on in hopes of getting her prego so they have a new baby to "experiment" on perhaps? 

We'll be back in February...even though it is gettting a bit frustrating to watch..we're still addicted enough to keep up with it til the end....


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

drew2k said:


> MSNBC has an analysis of the fall finale and Season 3 that says much better than I could what I am finding troubling about the show so far this season:
> 
> Why are the Lost bad guys so dumb? (Fall season cliffhanger doesn't leave viewers on edge of their seats)


I don't think it said anything very well:



> Its hard to believe that a group smart enough to have Locke, Sayid and company running around in circles for more than two seasons would give one of the castaways access to their leader, anesthesia, medical instruments, and their secret plans to kill a fellow passenger, even if that person does happen to be a noted surgeon specializing in spinal surgery who has just seen footage of the woman he has the hots for in a compromising position with his rival.


Ben's in a very bad position. His ONLY hope for survival is to let Jack do the surgery. If he doesn't, he dies.

Jack's in a very bad position, and his best chance is to drag things out as long as possible and hope for a break. But drag it out too far and the tumor grows, and then Jacks lost all of his leverage. His only real chance is to do the surgery and then see what happens. Of course, doing the surgery also loses his leverage, so he turns the surgery itself into the ultimate leverage. Of course...his other option was to go with Juliet's plan, but I think he decided it was a bad one. He doesn't know how much he can trust her, and if it turns out he can't, he's lost ALL leverage.

There wasn't a whole lot of choice on either side. Both sides were in a bad position, and they just winged it together.


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## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

Did anyone else notice...or maybe i was seeing things...that when Kate was breaking the lock on sawyers cage they showed the lock the first time and it already looked open. Then she continues to hit it a few more times until they definitely show it open.


----------



## stiffi (Jun 14, 2006)

Figaro said:


> It's not a matter of wanting all of the answers. It's a matter of just getting a few of the answers. Answering one not so big question all the while providing thirty more questions is not progress. This show now has so many dangling plot points that it is making the Sopranos seem like a tight ship.
> 
> My wife and I watched the first two seasons on DVD right before this season started. We were completely addicted. Though it did lose it's way a bit in the middle of season two. It pulled us back in during the final stretch. I really enjoyed the first threes episodes of this season, but the last few have gotten weaker and weaker. They should have stuck with their original plan and kept the others 2 or 3 episode arc instead of trying to stretch it into 6 or 7. It just isn't going anywhere.
> 
> I have also reached a point of being sick of the "main" characters back stories. Yes I do want to know why Locke was crippled. But that is all I want to know. I don't need an episode wasted on Jack's day at the tattoo parlor. I certainly never need another Charlie, Kate, or Sawyer flashback again. What I need are just a couple of the 20 or so big answers that we are waiting for, and for Charlie and Kate to die horrible deaths.


If that picture is true about filming in Honolulu, it looks like we're in for at least 1 more Charlie flashback.


----------



## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

mask2343 said:


> Please, all the bashers...go watch CSI: North Dakota or something. They give you answers EVERY week. Enjoy. Would make this thread much more bearable.


You don't seem to be comprehending what other people are writing. We just want a high quality TV show with writing that respects the viewers. The mystery of "Lost" is probably what attracted us in the first place, but we don't have any desire to be led on endlessly or aimlessly. (I think I already reached my tolerance for that in college. )


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

I haven't seen it mentioned yet, so I'm jumping in with both feet.

So far we've seen "unmarried woman has sex = death" with both Shannon and Ana-Lucia.

Will Kate break that trend?

Diane


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I must have missed soemthing. What's that about 4 toes? Who is Jacob?

I liked the Jack part of the storyline, and hated, hated, hated the kate storyline. First off, it was boring. Secondly, I don't think sawyer would say I love you. Third, I think it was really manipulative and stupid that the guy was going to kill sawyer. I guess the idea is, people watching the OR knew Ben and Juliet were distracted thus they could get away with it?

This is Alias type stuff with the stopping the death at the very last second. 

Still, I like that Jack finally manned up. I inferred from this episode that Jack was willing to gamble with Sawyer's life until he saw that Kate loved him. Then he did the whole altruistic thing and agreed to surgery just so he could get them out.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

stiffi said:


> If that picture is true about filming in Honolulu, it looks like we're in for at least 1 more Charlie flashback.


You forgot about Desmond Brotha! If it is a charlie flashback I will shoot my tv.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

dianebrat said:


> I haven't seen it mentioned yet, so I'm jumping in with both feet.
> 
> So far we've seen "unmarried woman has sex = death" with both Shannon and Ana-Lucia.
> 
> ...


Dear god I hope not.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

danplaysbass said:


> Did anyone else notice...or maybe i was seeing things...that when Kate was breaking the lock on sawyers cage they showed the lock the first time and it already looked open. Then she continues to hit it a few more times until they definitely show it open.


I thought I saw that and then decided I saw it wrong. Didn't feel like rewinding to confirm it though.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

danplaysbass said:


> Did anyone else notice...or maybe i was seeing things...that when Kate was breaking the lock on sawyers cage they showed the lock the first time and it already looked open. Then she continues to hit it a few more times until they definitely show it open.


Yep, I was wondering why she kept hitting it.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

dianebrat said:


> I haven't seen it mentioned yet, so I'm jumping in with EIGHT TOES.
> 
> So far we've seen "unmarried woman has sex = death" with both Shannon and Ana-Lucia.
> 
> ...


There, I fixed your post.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

pcguru83 said:


> Wow...just wow. This episode was a joke, right? This episode was just some kind of bit, a skit maybe? We get the real cliff-hanger next week, right? _Right?_


Not a skit, a sketch 

I was let down by this "cliffhanger," just as this season as a whole has been somewhat of a letdown for me. I still like Lost very much, but it no longer draws me to my television like a moth to flame the way it once did. I wish that Damon and Carlton would take some story pacing lessons from Tim Kring.

I don't think we'll see Kate dying any time soon, despite the sex=death axiom. But if Evangeline gets a moving violation, of course all bets are off. Actually, I was more thinking that Sawyer's number may soon be up - especially after his "I love you" discussion with Kate: it seems that when characters die on Lost, it happens shortly after they've come to terms with themself and moved past various issues they've had throughout their life. That's one of the things that keeps the "it's purgatory despite the writers' denials" theory alive for some people.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

MegaHertz67 said:


> Why doesn't anybody ask the "Others" any direct questions?
> 
> ..."If you have access to x-ray equipment, a sterile operating room and all of the instruments, why don't you have a surgeon that can perform surgery?...


Very good question! I also hated the fact that Freckles didn't tell Jack that they aren't on the same island!

I too miss the "kick-ass Kate". If she really thought they were going to kill Sawyer why wouldn't she really fight to the death?


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

How does the walkie talkie work in a bunker under water?

Also, if Jack send's Kate (and Sawyer?) to safety, how does he know it will be in range of the walkie - talkie....

Just the little things that I get to nit pick


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Paperboy2003 said:


> How does the walkie talkie work in a bunker under water?
> 
> Also, if Jack send's Kate (and Sawyer?) to safety, how does he know it will be in range of the walkie - talkie....
> 
> Just the little things that I get to nit pick


The O.R. is not in the underwater place where they were holding him. Remember they walked him there to try to save the chick Sun capped?


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

A couple of timeline questions...

How long have Kate/Jack/Sawyer been held captive by the Others?

I know the x rays are a week old but how long would Ben have known about his tumor? Did he know about it before Kate/Jack/Sawyer were captured?


----------



## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

I dunno...seemed like it was just down the hall......


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> I know the x rays are a week old but how long would Ben have known about his tumor? Did he know about it before Kate/Jack/Sawyer were captured?


He said he found out about it right before the crash ("And then a spinal surgeon fell out of the sky").


----------



## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> A couple of timeline questions...
> 
> How long have Kate/Jack/Sawyer been held captive by the Others?
> 
> I know the x rays are a week old but how long would Ben have known about his tumor? Did he know about it before Kate/Jack/Sawyer were captured?


I thought he said something to the effect that 2 days after he found out he had the tumor, a spinal surgeon fell out of the sky. THey've been on the island(s) for about 60-70 days now, correct?


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## RangersRBack (Jan 9, 2006)

We still enjoy the show, but it's not what it used to be. Hopefully it'll find it's way back.

We have the same issues as some of you regarding how frustrating it is that people don't share information. Kate not telling Jack they're on another island is an example, and so him giving them basically an hour head start won't really matter, unless they're triathletes and can swim two miles through Dharma sharks.

When Jack was getting ready to do something nefarious during surgery, I thought he was going along with Juliet's plan. After he did what he did, and we thought about it, we wondered why he didn't make Kate and Sawyer's release part of his bargain to do the surgery in the first place. Like 'I don't operate until Kate tells me they're safe via walkie talkie', or whatever way they can verify they're back with the Locke group. THEN he does the surgery. What he's doing now seems pointless even if they werent' on another island, and of course Jack has no plan himself to get out alive.

The show used to be virtually an hour of WOW!, now it seems to be 55 minutes of pretty good, followed by five minutes of WOW! (Sawyer sees another island, 'run Kate, you have an hour', etc.)

Agreed this hasn't slipped into Alias territory yet. We too just stopped watching because it became so trivial. But it's fallen behind shows such as Rescue Me, The Shield, Deadwood, Nip/Tuck, Six Feet Under when it was on, and even the Sopranos, as a much watch.

We'll still watch it, because it's still good, but it's not great anymore, at least not these six episodes.


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Paperboy2003 said:


> I dunno...seemed like it was just down the hall......


Well if that was the case then why did they put a bag over his head, march him outside over to there, and blare sirens so Sawyer and Kate couldn't yell to him?


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Figaro said:


> What I need are ... for Charlie and Kate to die horrible deaths.


Well, they *are* getting married in the real world, which is just about the same...


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

stiffi said:


> If that picture is true about filming in Honolulu, it looks like we're in for at least 1 more Charlie flashback.


If you look at more pictures from the set, it has a shot of a building with a sign that says "Widmore Industries", which seems to indicate a Desmond flashback.


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

astrohip said:


> Well, they *are* getting married in the real world, which is just about the same...


I thought she said no more marriages. After her first one kinda went south when she abondoned her hubby in order to do Lost.


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Does anyone remember Penny's father's name? Was it Jacob Widmore?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

jr461 said:


> I don't know why at the very end on the intercom Kate didn't tell Jack that they were on a different island and that there was no place to run.


Well , first of all we have not yet seen the end of the conversation - the show ended in the middle of the whole ordeal.

Second, it makes very little sense for her to do so. What would that accomplish? All it would do is put Jack at a disadvantage, and leave them back where they were. Better to take the chance and run and hope that they find a boat or some other way off the island.


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

cherry ghost said:


> Does anyone remember Penny's father's name? Was it Jacob Widmore?


No, that was Charles.


----------



## robbhimself (Sep 13, 2006)

they found the lost island:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/11/09/new.island.ap/index.html

hahahaha


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## ducker (Feb 21, 2006)

Ok... no one brought this up really yet...

What was with that chick going crazy looking for Ben? I believe it was Alex, (confirmed here ) And then later Ben asks, "Did Alex say anything to you about me?" At which Juliet (I think) lied and said no...

Why was Alex looking for him? If Alex is on the fringe, and isn't really that accepted by the main group of "Others" Why would Ben care about her?

She definetly is up to something... the episode before, when she was whispering from the bushes to Kate too.


----------



## crazywater (Mar 7, 2001)

pmyers said:


> Very good question! I also hated the fact that Freckles didn't tell Jack that they aren't on the same island!
> 
> I too miss the "kick-ass Kate". If she really thought they were going to kill Sawyer why wouldn't she really fight to the death?


Well she may have been a bit distracted by the gun pointed at Sawyers head and all...

Geez...

I thought it was a great episode, I liked that Jack finally got the upper hand and a few good one-liners in on Ben. I would like to see the tougher Kate back but in Lost time aren't we only a couple of weeks out from when she was taken hostage? She could be shaken from that but we did see her yelling Sawyer to fight back...


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

ducker said:


> Ok... no one brought this up really yet...
> 
> What was with that chick going crazy looking for Ben? I believe it was Alex, (confirmed here ) And then later Ben asks, "Did Alex say anything to you about me?" At which Juliet (I think) lied and said no...
> 
> ...


I don't know what Alex was doing, but there was some dialogue in there that said something to the effect of, "How did she get over here?" which definitely says that the majority of the others still live on the main island. At least that clears up some discussion that has been going on in these threads.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Meant to ask earlier...did anyone watching the HD feed have a digital breakup around 16 mins, lasting about a minute? When the HD-TiVo hit it, it froze, I could not get it past that point without doing a 3X FF. I checked later on my SA8300HD, and it had the same garbage. This is on a Time Warner HD feed in Houston. I then checked the S2 TiVo (cable also, but SD feed), and it played fine. But watching that minute on SD after an hour of HD Lost is not fun  

So was it Time Warner, Houston, or everywhere HD?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

dswallow said:


> One of about 3,000 things I'd have done way differently then Jack is to have immediately asked how Kate got there is the place is supposedly under water. Everybody just accepts all the nonsense and never asks a question once they get told something.


But she walked down there with a hood over her head, and Jack had already been walked out of there at least twice with a hood over his head, so anything she could have told him about his location, he could have deduced himself. In fact, we don't even know if they put the hood over his head when they took Jack out for Colleen's funeral, so it's possible he doesn't even have any questions about where he is.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

RangersRBack said:


> Agreed this hasn't slipped into Alias territory yet. We too just stopped watching because it became so trivial. But it's fallen behind shows such as Rescue Me, The Shield, Deadwood, Nip/Tuck, Six Feet Under when it was on, and even the Sopranos, as a much watch.


I'm not sure about nip/tuck. On the one hand, every show is like a shark jumping episode. Everyone sleeps with everyone else, their two dads, nannies, patients, old people, dead people, serial killers, etc. On the other hand, we can't really say the show "jumped the shark" since it's been like that from day one... hmm... tough call...


----------



## scsiguy72 (Nov 25, 2003)

drew2k said:


> They buried Eko with his stick, and Locke saw "Lift your eyes up and look to the north". Does it mean anything in THIS episode? No. So I have to wait for the payout. Big whoop!


Well, It ment something to Locke. And the Quote said "Lift your eyes up and look to the north" 
John 1:3:10


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## Jericho Dog (Feb 10, 2006)

This thread is fun to read, so many different opinions and frustrations!

It's been said before, and I wholeheartedly agree, that the show is unfolding like a novel.
Whenever they make a 2 hr. movie from a book they have to dump a lot to make it fit the time. (Like they took a good portion of the book Jurassic Park, where they explained how they made the Dinos, and reduced it in the movie to a cartoon!) and usually the backstories are the first to go.

Yeah..., it's annoying they don't share info with each other.

Yeah..., it's annoying the backstories make the 'current' action drag out.

Yeah..., it's annoying we don't get to see as much of the characters we 'want' to see.


But I'm enjoying the ride.
I think it's better than most shows on TV, BECAUSE of the fact they're taking their time with the main story.
We're used to 'fast-food' TV these days and it can be frustrating to not get all the answers right away, but this more like an investment in a good book.

If some of you don't think it's worth it, hey, that's your thing. No big deal. There's plenty of other stuff to do, that's your choice.
I, for one, look at the show as a fun ride and an interested to see where they're going to end up.


I did enjoy the runnin' and gunnin' through the jungle better then some of the stuff lately, but it's still fun to watch, and some of the best TV.

(or should that be T.V. or just Tv... tv...?)


----------



## flyersfan (Nov 11, 2002)

LordKronos said:


> Actually, its interesting that you mention Scientology. Do you know the real story that Scientologists believe? About the alien space lord Xenu? Its a story that they don't tell their followers right away. If you aren't familiar with Xenu, read a few paragraphs on that link before continuing on with this post.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> Manipulating/beating/terrorizing are time proven methods to break someone's will and get them to join you. Its been done both to prisoners of war as well as by kidnappers. It doesn't always work, but there are plenty of stories of it working.


Actually, I do know the story on Xenu. It's hard to believe any new recruit of Scientology wouldn't know about it by now. But your point is well taken and my analogy was poor. The Others may be VERY similar.

In fact, the more that I think about it, the more my reasons for wanting The Others to give some answers don't hold up. Rational thoughts and actions are inadequate in this scenario.

I have a random question which I'll save for another post.


----------



## flyersfan (Nov 11, 2002)

Maybe I missed something, but has anything come of the cliffhanger we saw at the end of S2? The EMP burst (or whatever that was before the hatch exploded) was picked up at a station in Antarctica and relayed to what I believe was Desmond's lover. Should we just assume that over the weeks (of island time, not our real time) she is preparing for an expedition to the island?

I thought we'd see more of that thread by now.


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

RangersRBack said:


> ...we wondered why he didn't make Kate and Sawyer's release part of his bargain to do the surgery in the first place. Like 'I don't operate until Kate tells me they're safe via walkie talkie', or whatever way they can verify they're back with the Locke group. ...


If he did as you suggested, he'd have to bargain with Ben. Now he has to bargain with what's his name, who was not prepared to all of a sudden have to make decisions that could affect Ben's life. Adds the element of surprise.


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## Cragmyre (Mar 8, 2004)

Didn't Kate find out they were on a seperate Island after she met up with Jack? She may have tried to tell Jack while using the talkies...but Jack wasn't letting her get in a word in edgewise.


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## spelcheker (Nov 5, 2002)

Kate doesn't love Sawyer.

That was a pity you-know-what.

She didn't even answer him when he asked.

(not that I care)


----------



## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

dianebrat said:


> I haven't seen it mentioned yet, so I'm jumping in with both feet.
> 
> So far we've seen "unmarried woman has sex = death" with both Shannon and Ana-Lucia.
> 
> ...


No problem, clearly from the flashback Kate is married 

Z


----------



## 7thton (Mar 3, 2005)

Get these freaking people out of the frakking cages. It is boring. That is all.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Vito the TiVo said:


> Seriously they couldn't have included a bit of a bomb to carry us over until February? Especially when they have TWO lined up before the season finale, which will most likely be the third ("the matzo"). My fiancee and I joked that Jack would open up Ben and find a Dharma logo on his organs. Cheesy, but would have had more punch than this.
> 
> And they can't touch 24 for holding an audiences interest. Jack on a boat to China was more cliffhanger than anything in this episode and 24 in general has been able to take a relatively small premise and grow it bigger and bigger with each season topping itself and being better than the last. This when they had a nuke go off halfway through season two. L O S T (oh and how i used to love it to death) has done the opposite and taken a huge premise and explained it away little by little until its shrunk and become less interesting.
> 
> ...


I think the thing that you're not realizing is that the first season was mysterious because they introduced a whole bunch of mysterious possibilities and then the fans went crazy with imagination and theories and stuff. So in our minds, especially those reading these threads, there were thousands of outlandish possibilities, any of which could come to pass.

However, now that they've answered some questions, it's limited the possibilities of what the answers to the mysteries are. Therefore, it's less mysterious because stuff has been answered and stuff has been ruled out.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either it remains mysterious and everyone complains about the fact that they're not answering any questions, or they answer some questions and therefore it's less mysterious. What the producers have tried to do is straddle that fence, because they can't answer every question or there will be no further story to tell. At the same time, if they answer no questions, they'll lose all their viewers to frustration. So they have come up with what they consider to be a happy medium. Unfortunately, not all the viewers are on the same page. Some are less patient, and are still frustrated with the slow-moving plot. Others are more patient and have faith that it will all work out satisfactorily in the end.

But unless you've never complained about them not answering questions, you can't complain that it's not mysterious enough anymore. Those two things just can't happen together.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

flyersfan said:


> Maybe I missed something, but has anything come of the cliffhanger we saw at the end of S2? The EMP burst (or whatever that was before the hatch exploded) was picked up at a station in Antarctica and relayed to what I believe was Desmond's lover. Should we just assume that over the weeks (of island time, not our real time) she is preparing for an expedition to the island?
> 
> I thought we'd see more of that thread by now.


The EMP (or whatever) blast was the lastest blast. In LOST time this only happened a few (3-4) days ago. So she (name?) probably hasn't had much time to digest and analyze what happened.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

What's with all the Charlie hating? I love me some Drive Shaft.

YOU, ALL EVERYBODY! Sing it with me..."YOU, ALL, EVERYBODY!"

Seriously, I know what the problem with this season so far is. Not enough Charlie and not enough Hurley.

The episode was pretty good still. But like others have said it didn't seem to pick up until the last few minutes. 

There has to be a way to get between the two islands pretty fast. Alex has been seen on both islands on different occasions, Ethan and Goodwin were able to make it the the crash sites fast enough. Could the underwater hatch have like a tunnel between the two islands???


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

unicorngoddess said:


> ...There has to be a way to get between the two islands pretty fast. Alex has been seen on both islands on different occasions, Ethan and Goodwin were able to make it the the crash sites fast enough. Could the underwater hatch have like a tunnel between the two islands???


I think this is the most plausible theory in my opinion. It would explain the problem people have with Ben telling Ethan & Goodwin to run to the crash site. It explains Alex getting back & forth.

This theory gets my vote!


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:


> There has to be a way to get between the two islands pretty fast. Alex has been seen on both islands on different occasions, Ethan and Goodwin were able to make it the the crash sites fast enough. Could the underwater hatch have like a tunnel between the two islands???


It has been clearly explained on the show, and also in the podcast that the camp we saw the Others living in during the opening scene of the season was on the main island while the cages and all the stuff we've been seeing recently is on the small island. Ethan and Goodwin did not have to go from one island to the other when the plane crashed.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Although I agree that this brief season was sub-par, I'm still into the show despite its blatant faults and the major irritation (to me) that nobody communicates with each other.

Kate's defiance as they were about to kill Sawyer was kick ass; it's not Alias where the heroine has those preposterous martial arts moves. Can anybody tell me the critical 'story' Jack reminded us that he told Kate when they 1st met?

Suggested plot device: Nathan Fillon hooks up with Penny next spring in their mutual search for their lost lovers

Could Julliet be in league with or 'forced' to do the bidding of the mysterious Jacob (patch guy?) to dispose of Ben?


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

I'm assuming it's the story about the nearly botched spinal surgery, being afraid, where he taught Kate about counting to five.

It's clever of Jack because nobody else would know the story, and if Kate wasn't safe she'll tell some other story and Jack will know....

I guess I'm never remembering Kate being all kick-a$$. I know she blew up her (step?)-dad, but she was terrified in the pilot.......


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## carosil (Aug 20, 2006)

flyersfan said:


> I'm also in the "it was OK, but not amazing" camp. I think I'm still in shock/denial about Eko being gone. I *loved* that character and thought he was interesting enough to fill 1/2 a season's worth of back-story without getting boring.


Having read the whole thread, I'll reserve my opinions about this episode until I've had more time to digest it, but I think I'm in the "'OK, but not amazing' camp" with you. I didn't care for the cliffhanger because I thought the melodrama from Fox was a little weak near the end, but that's neither here nor there. However, your feelings about Eko, I completely ... well ... echo. 

I loved that character. Apparently (and I haven't read any direct info to support this - just been told by other fans) the actor had other projects he's working on/wanting to work on, so this was a way to remove him from the show, but I'm still feeling gut-punched over his departure. Yeah, yeah, flashbacks yet to come that include him, blah blah blah, but I still wanted to see more development of his relationship with Locke and their seeming duality in the 'priest' role for the Oceanic survivors. (And I still harbor notions that Rose might step up in that role, but that's a whole 'nother thread...).

For me, the most frustrating aspect of Eko's death is that he seemed to derail from his path to "redemption" in episode 05. Even when the fusies had Benry in the hatch, Eko came to him and confessed his sin of killing the two Others when they came for the tailies. He said that he needed to ask Benry's forgiveness for that (all of this before we had solid confirmation that Ben was an Other). Most of his actions on the Island showed him reconciling his past and atoning for his sins prior to the Oceanic flight (and not just his semi-warlord past -- recalling his ambivalent and selfish approach to his task of investigating the miraculous resurrection of the daughter of the psychic who sent Claire on the flight...).

But in his death episode, he confronts the Island/Yemmie to say that he apologizes for nothing - "I did what I had to do to survive," and all that. So was the act of making peace with himself (if not in the sense of redemption that we'd normally expect) the trigger that got him killed? Or did the Island kill him for -not- redeeming himself? I'm tempted to believe the former because (and this is why I'm posting this in the episode 06 thread instead of 05) it seems like he's found his peace - with himself, with Yemmie, with his existence in general - and (thanks to all who pointed out the John I verse, BTW -- I missed that) he's "passed his mantle" to Locke by way of his Jesus Stick (one of the better lines the writers have given to Charlie, incidentally  ).

As for the other details - I don't particularly care how The Others get from one island to another, and I don't care if Jack-with-bag-over-his-head-walking-by-the-cages had to walk, oh, I dunno, _up stairs_ to exit the place where he's being held (which I don't need to be shown explicitly to accept it as an understood (and honestly, I don't think it's completely underwater, but that's yet _another_ thread)), and I don't care how fast Ethan can run. I'm hooked on the spiritual slant to the show, have been since the beginning, and probably will be until they pull it off the air. The technical mysteries aren't what drive me to watch.

(Though I will add (and can I squeeze in any more parentheticals?) that - now that we have this clairvoyance/skewed time issue with Desmond, would anyone care to speculate on - from the crash victims' perspective - how long the Black Rock has _really_ been on the island?  )


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

MegaHertz67 said:


> Why doesn't anybody ask the "Others" any direct questions?
> 
> "Why are you here?"
> 
> ...


I agree with all of the above, but as for the surgery, it may well be that Ben's tumor is so advanced/in such a precarious area that it would take a world-class surgeon to perform the surgery, and not just any hack with a scalpel.

Also, clearly the equipment and facilities on the island are somewhat antiquated, so it may well be that the original Dharma project (if that's what the "zoo" area is part of) did in fact have a surgeon, but that surgeon may have since died in the 30-40 years since the facility was constructed.

I seem to have blanked on the eye patch guy - when did we see him, and under what circumstances? Could he be "Jacob"?


----------



## KRS (Jan 30, 2002)

Ben said:


> OK, it's my lucky day. I have this tumor and a spinal surgeon fell out of the sky. How do I proceed? Do we:
> 
> 1) Send people to secretly infiltrate the two groups of crash survivors, have them kill and intimidate them, pretend I am a dead balloonist if I get captured, keep lying while getting tortured and interrogated in their hatch, kidnap the pregnant woman, kidnap that kid, grab that guy from Oz when he comes looking for his kid, blackmail him into tricking a group of his people to come attack our camp, take them hostage, send the father and son off on the boat, cage and torture the hot chick and macho dude, send the fat guy back to their camp, lock the doctor in an underwater bunker, don't tell him anything, and hope that he decides that he wants to help me.
> 
> ...


The main island has interesting secrets that may well have some sort of ~logical resolution (military experiments, magnetic fields, everyone's crazy, etc). But I just don't see any way of answering why Ben and the Others act the way they do.

By the way, who is this Sayid character?


----------



## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

carosil said:


> For me, the most frustrating aspect of Eko's death is that he seemed to derail from his path to "redemption" in episode 05. Even when the fusies had Benry in the hatch, Eko came to him and confessed his sin of killing the two Others when they came for the tailies. He said that he needed to ask Benry's forgiveness for that (all of this before we had solid confirmation that Ben was an Other). Most of his actions on the Island showed him reconciling his past and atoning for his sins prior to the Oceanic flight (and not just his semi-warlord past -- recalling his ambivalent and selfish approach to his task of investigating the miraculous resurrection of the daughter of the psychic who sent Claire on the flight...).
> 
> But in his death episode, he confronts the Island/Yemmie to say that he apologizes for nothing - "I did what I had to do to survive," and all that. So was the act of making peace with himself (if not in the sense of redemption that we'd normally expect) the trigger that got him killed? Or did the Island kill him for -not- redeeming himself? I'm tempted to believe the former because (and this is why I'm posting this in the episode 06 thread instead of 05) it seems like he's found his peace - with himself, with Yemmie, with his existence in general - and (thanks to all who pointed out the John I verse, BTW -- I missed that) he's "passed his mantle" to Locke by way of his Jesus Stick (one of the better lines the writers have given to Charlie, incidentally  ).


I think that it was Eko's final realization that he does not need to apologize for his life. Ever since he brother was shot and forced on the airplane, he was working towards redeeming his past sins. It was only once he realized that his past "sins" were all part his larger role in life, that he accepted them and stopped trying to atone for them. (Then he dies.)

The pattern seems to follow that most major characters die only after they achieve some sort peace with their life and existance. Boone reconciled with his feelings for Shannon. Shannon reconciled her life and found someone to love in Syaid. Ana-Lucia came to grips with her anger over being shot. Eko reconciled his past with his existance.


----------



## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

DreadPirateRob said:


> I seem to have blanked on the eye patch guy - when did we see him, and under what circumstances? Could he be "Jacob"?


He was on one of the monitors in the Pearl Station last week


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

markz said:


> I think this is the most plausible theory in my opinion. It would explain the problem people have with Ben telling Ethan & Goodwin to run to the crash site.


Man...I've posted this image in almost every thread this season:










Theres no need to quickly get between islands in order to explain how Ethan and Goodwin got there so fast. The village (where they were at the time of the crash) is on the SAME island as the losties. The following picture shows a continuous, ocean-free path of land from the village to the tail section.










I think when episode 7 airs, I'm just going to copy and paste this post before anyone even says anything about it.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

LordKronos said:


> Man...I've posted this image in almost every thread this season:
> Theres no need to quickly get between islands in order to explain how Ethan and Goodwin got there so fast. The village (where they were at the time of the crash) is on the SAME island as the losties. The following picture shows a continuous, ocean-free path of land from the village to the tail section.
> 
> I think when episode 7 airs, I'm just going to copy and paste this post before anyone even says anything about it.


LOL!!

Not to mention the fact that, as I said before, Cuse and Lindeloff clearly stated in the podcast that the village we saw at the beginning of the season is not on the same island as the research station where we've spent a majority of the last six episodes.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

devdogaz said:


> LOL!!
> 
> Not to mention the fact that, as I said before, Cuse and Lindeloff clearly stated in the podcast that the village we saw at the beginning of the season is not on the same island as the research station where we've spent a majority of the last six episodes.


Well if you couldn't tell already, it seems that a lot of people must be doing other things while "watching" the show. Lost orgies? We may never know! Or even want to. 

Who the hell is Jack? Why is Charlie always strung out? Does he have the flu?


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

It's not that I don't pay attention to the show, I just don't listen to pod cast the clearly explain every detail to me. This is the one show I prefer to watch spoiler free so I don't read much outside information. So, from my POV I've seen that there are two islands. If the prison island that they are on now is different from where the others' village is, fine. But that still means they have to have a way to get back and forth between the two isands easily. Unless I'm missing something else that was clearly told to us in the pod casts.


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

AstroDad said:


> He was on one of the monitors in the Pearl Station last week


No wonder I forgot about him.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:


> It's not that I don't pay attention to the show, I just don't listen to pod cast the clearly explain every detail to me. This is the one show I prefer to watch spoiler free so I don't read much outside information. So, from my POV I've seen that there are two islands. If the prison island that they are on now is different from where the others' village is, fine. But that still means they have to have a way to get back and forth between the two isands easily. Unless I'm missing something else that was clearly told to us in the pod casts.


I don't do the podcasts either, those two guys are beyond annoying with their love for themselves. It's been mad pretty clear in the show that the others have a sub and boats so I don't question that they can traverse the water between the islands with ease. It has also been made pretty clear that they don't actually live on the prison island.

Hell last night they said that Alex was taken home which one would imagine would imagine that home is the nice little sub division that the others had on the main island.

Silly Alex, bringing a slingshot to a gun fight.


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## Grumpy Pants (Jul 1, 2002)

getreal said:


> Well, I'm disappointed in the amount of vitriolic whining from such fairweather fans of LOST. :down:
> 
> I enjoyed the episode.
> 
> ...


Fairweather fans? This isn't baseball. If a show starts to suck, I stop watching. There is no loyalty involved. I am sick and tired of this show so I am going to stop watching.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Grumpy Pants said:


> Fairweather fans? This isn't baseball. If a show starts to suck, I stop watching. There is no loyalty involved. I am sick and tired of this show so I am going to stop watching.


Maybe you should just try a happier pair of pants first?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Grumpy Pants said:


> Fairweather fans? This isn't baseball. If a show starts to suck, I stop watching. There is no loyalty involved. I am sick and tired of this show so I am going to stop watching.


OT: but if it was baseball, it would be important to keep following a team that sucks?


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Grumpy Pants said:


> Fairweather fans? This isn't baseball.


Thank GOD. If it had been, I never would have gotten through the pilot.

Greg


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I can't wait until Aragorn returns and wrests the island kingdom from Ben.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Figaro said:


> Hell last night they said that Alex was taken home which one would imagine would imagine that home is the nice little sub division that the others had on the main island.


See, that's more of what I'm talking about. I do feel it was made clear that Alex's home was on the other island...but the question is how did/does she get back and forth? Last night's episode wasn't the first time we've seen her on the prisoners' island.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:


> See, that's more of what I'm talking about. I do feel it was made clear that Alex's home was on the other island...but the question is how did/does she get back and forth? Last night's episode wasn't the first time we've seen her on the prisoners' island.


She tied a rope to an arrow an then shot it to the small island with a fantastic slingshot shot. She then climbed over to the smaller island.

She probably stowed away on a boat or sub trip. They seemed really surprised that she was there. She has been there for a while so maybe she snuck over with them at the beginning. Or she was at the dock when they kidnapped Jack and Co. so maybe she is just in on the con.

Since they obviously got to the other island even after they gave a boat to Michale and Waaaaaaaaaallllllllt, they probably used the sub or they have another boat.


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## Grumpy Pants (Jul 1, 2002)

MickeS said:


> OT: but if it was baseball, it would be important to keep following a team that sucks?


A fair weather fan is really a term that refers to a fan of a sports team that only states they are a fan when the team is winning. to me it doesn't apply.

I am saying I am no longer a fan of this show. When the Red Sox do not do well, I will do say that I am no longer a fan. I might not watch as often, but will retain my 'fandom'.


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## ducker (Feb 21, 2006)

unicorngoddess said:


> See, that's more of what I'm talking about. I do feel it was made clear that Alex's home was on the other island...but the question is how did/does she get back and forth? Last night's episode wasn't the first time we've seen her on the prisoners' island.


well think about it... if her home is usually on the "main island" why was she looking like all scruffy in crapy clothes. Not as if she was activly resting on the island... but more looking like an abandoned person on the island... how we all invisioned all "the others" to be looking like before learning about their village and the other island.

So it would seem that she's currently running around out in the jungle.


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## KRS (Jan 30, 2002)

FYI, the actress playing _slingshot girl_ also starred on Malcolm in the Middle for a bit as Malcolm's girlfriend. My wife caught that one.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

KRS said:


> FYI, the actress playing _slingshot girl_ also starred on Malcolm in the Middle for a bit as Malcolm's girlfriend. My wife caught that one.


Wow so there were at least 2 people who watched that show!


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## RangersRBack (Jan 9, 2006)

KRS said:


> FYI, the actress playing _slingshot girl_ also starred on Malcolm in the Middle for a bit as Malcolm's girlfriend. My wife caught that one.


I remember that...she was REALLY young then!


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

RangersRBack said:


> I remember that...she was REALLY young then!


3 people.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Figaro said:


> 3 people.


And with me, still 3 people! 

No, actually I have watched it off and on.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Grumpy Pants said:


> I am saying I am no longer a fan of this show.


So why would a non-fan continue in this forum? I certainly do not participate in forums for shows of which I am not a fan. 



unicorngoddess said:


> ... it was made clear that Alex's home was on the other island...but the question is how did/does she get back and forth?


Two words: VACCUUM TUBES. 

I have a new theory about Ben's x-rays. What if his x-ray actually showed a normal spine, but Juliet spilled some coffee on it when she set her mug over the area of the "apparent tumor"? That way she can convince Ben to go under the knife and she can pull off her coup by using Dr. Jack Kervorkian to perform the operation!

You're welcome. I've got an answer for every mystery on the island.
They may not be the correct answer, mind you, but I'll have an answer!


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Grumpy Pants said:


> A fair weather fan is really a term that refers to a fan of a sports team that only states they are a fan when the team is winning. to me it doesn't apply.


I know, but I've never understood that reasoning - why would anyone be a fan of a team that isn't good? If the winning team I liked all of a sudden started losing, why should I like them?

I agree with your reasoning about TV shows, I just don't understand why it doesn't apply to baseball.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

MickeS said:


> I know, but I've never understood that reasoning - why would anyone be a fan of a team that isn't good? If the winning team I liked all of a sudden started losing, why should I like them?


And that, my friends, explains Arizona sports in a nutshell.


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## bqmeister (May 13, 2006)

getreal said:


> I have a new theory about Ben's x-rays. What if his x-ray actually showed a normal spine, but Juliet spilled some coffee on it when she set her mug over the area of the "apparent tumor"? That way she can convince Ben to go under the knife and she can pull off her coup by using Dr. Jack Kervorkian to perform the operation!


Ben explained to Jack that he was diagnosed BEFORE the plane crashed. Jack asked if he believed in God and Ben responded that God gave him (Ben) a spinal surgeon 2 days after being diagnosed with a spine problem.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

getreal said:


> Two words: VACCUUM TUBES.


Oh, you mean like The Internet


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## UBUBUB (Dec 1, 2005)

For the last time, can we please get over the whining about the hiatus please! We all asked for it last year after getting non-sequential repeats and clip shows. Had they not gone on hiatus, (after having already endured 3 repeats), we probably would have gotten a new show next week, then maybe 2 more in December and 2 more in January, all new in February (sweeps), all repeats in March, some new in April, and the season finale in May. American Idol starts in January anyway with 3 episode audition weeks. That and the USA shows will tide me over after the holidays.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:


> See, that's more of what I'm talking about. I do feel it was made clear that Alex's home was on the other island...but the question is how did/does she get back and forth? Last night's episode wasn't the first time we've seen her on the prisoners' island.


Also, when she showed up with the slingshot she also told Kate to run for it. So even though Sawyer has been shown both islands in order to deter him from escaping, perhaps the fact that Alex was calling for Kate to run means that it's worth it to do so... there are places to hide, or a few boats that would be quickly found tied off at a pier, etc.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

bqmeister said:


> Ben explained to Jack that he was diagnosed BEFORE the plane crashed. Jack asked if he believed in God and Ben responded that God gave him (Ben) a spinal surgeon 2 days after being diagnosed with a spine problem.


Oh, tongue-in-cheek emoticon, where were you when I needed you??

I have another theory about the smoke monster, but it has to do with a monster who is actually smoldering and tries to put out the smoke by grabbing Losties and patting them all over it's body until they wind up dead. Why doesn't it just jump into the water, you might ask? Well, of course, in a flashback sequence we would learn that it had a bad experience in a bathtub as a young monster and is now deathly afraid of water.

It seemed like the obvious explanation to me, anyway.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Geez, getreal--SPOILER TAGS!!!


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

MickeS said:


> I know, but I've never understood that reasoning - why would anyone be a fan of a team that isn't good? If the winning team I liked all of a sudden started losing, why should I like them?


Because they are a presence in your local community, generate revenue, represent local pride, etc.?


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

philw1776 said:


> Can anybody tell me the critical 'story' Jack reminded us that he told Kate when they 1st met?


The one about him operating on a 16 year old girl and being terrified. He decided to give his fear 5 seconds, so he counted to 5 and then was good to go.

[Edit]Crap, I searched high and low for the word "critical" but the answer to the question was posted immediately below *without* quoting the question. I tried not to smeek, I really did


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

UBUBUB said:


> For the last time, can we please get over the whining about the hiatus please!


Has there been a lot of whining about the mid-season break? I think comments such as "I can't wait for February" are being misconstrued as complaints, instead of being viewed as support for the show. Just look at my post on page 1: I was bitterly disappointed in the fall-finale, but I still can't wait for February! I want to see how this is going to turn out, after all!


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

LordKronos said:


> Theres no need to quickly get between islands in order to explain how Ethan and Goodwin got there so fast. The village (where they were at the time of the crash) is on the SAME island as the losties. The following picture shows a continuous, ocean-free path of land from the village to the tail section.


I agree with this 100%. Shots within the first episode of the season (which you posted stills of) make it obvious that their village is on the same island as the losties.

However, I still really like the theory that the "underwater hatch" (where Jack is being held) provides an underwater tunnel access between the two islands.

It seems that The Others spend quite a bit of time on *both islands*. And while they could be using a boat to ferry themselves between them, a tunnel would be a lot more convenient. It seems to me it would rather cramp The Other's style to have to go between the islands in groups on a boat. I'll bet there's a tunnel.

To clarify:

The Others' village: On the same island as (most of) our losties.

The "zoo" (where Sawyer and Kate are being held): On the "Alcatraz" island. (They are also "working" somewhere on the Alcatraz island.)

The "underwater hatch" (where Jack is being held): Provides an underwater access between the two islands. (By theory proposed by some of us, that is.)

The operating room: ??? Could be on either island. If it's in the underwater hatch, that would be a continuity error since the walkie talkie would not have worked.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

JYoung said:


> I think that you mean Australia and not Hawaii.


Oops. 

P.S. That's two  for me in a row.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

Yaawwwwn.


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's been underwhelmed with LOST this season. I haven't been enjoying TV as much lately, but I think it's because I've been watching some mediocre new shows, and my favorite show LOST has gone from a great show to an okay show.

It's really sad, because I used to like LOST so much that Wednesday was a special day because of it. I kept all of last season on my TiVo, and I would go back and watch bits of episodes, looking for clues and connections. These last few episodes, sometimes I don't even bother to rewind if I miss a line of dialog.



Vito the TiVo said:


> But they took all the creepiness and mystery out of everything except the monster, and nothing that they have introduced carries that sense of forboding. And that was a key ingredient in season one. And part of two.


You've hit upon my main complaint. What happened to the scary moments, and the eerie and unexpected twists? These Others are not creepy or mysterious, they're dull, dumb, and grumpy.



devdogaz said:


> You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either it remains mysterious and everyone complains about the fact that they're not answering any questions, or they answer some questions and therefore it's less mysterious.


I think you misinterpreted his post a little. The first two seasons had this spooky Twilight Zone element that has gradually died off. There are still hints of it here and there, but it's more or less gone. They could have revealed the Others and kept the show spooky and weird, but instead we have the bland and angry book club Others. Total letdown, in my opinion.

The flashbacks have also lost their edge. As some of you have pointed out, some of this season's flashbacks have been giving us the same messages as past flashbacks. And where are all of the intricate flashback connections among the losties?

Regarding this episode, I did enjoy the scenes with Jack. It was nice to see him grow a pair and strike back, especially when Sawyer and Freckles more or less gave up and decided to go for a conjugal visit.

I still have a lot of hope for this show. The first two seasons were so good that I just can't accept that it's destined for mediocrity. I will continue to watch until the end, and I hope the writers can dig themselves out of this rut.


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## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

Thank you for clarifying my original post. Its less about answers vs. no answers. But there was mystery and intrigue and the tone of the show was simply spookier. That has all seem to slip away.

Answer the questions, fine, but there has to be more spooky things. Yes, the foot and maybe the eyepatch man touch on that. But it is really spooky to any one that there was another hatch with another guy in it?


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

Vito the TiVo said:


> But it is really spooky to any one that there was another hatch with another guy in it?


YES!!!! I thougth that was fairly spooky, and I do think they introduced him in this episode as a way to begin a real reveal about The Other's in February. Add in "Jacob," and I'm excited to hear more about him.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Some interesting ideas on ew.com

If you're not familiar with this jeff jensen guy, he posts a new theory on Lost seemingly every other day, and most of them are totally ridiculous (one example: the Others used to be animals). Some of this makes sense, though.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I think all the hype about this "cliffhanger" is part of the problem. Definately a let-down from that perspective. Still a so-so Lost is better than a good episode of most shows. 

I was also disappointed that Cap'n Mal had such a small role. I was hoping he would be a new "other." He would fit right in with Ben and Juliet--he has the cold stare down pat. Of course, if he would show up on the island sometime in the future that would be great.

Did Ben use some little pet name for Juliet as he was going under--Julienne or something?

So, who let Jack out of his cage, I assume on purpose to see Kate and Sawyer on the monitor? It was a woman's voice, so it wasn't Ben. 

It seems odd that they aren't going to rerun any Lost episodes--or are they? I'd be ready to rewatch these by Christmas. Maybe they think the DVD's will sell better this way.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

stellie93 said:


> So, who let Jack out of his cage, I assume on purpose to see Kate and Sawyer on the monitor? It was a woman's voice, so it wasn't Ben.


I thought it sounded like Alex.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

mqpickles said:


> I thought it sounded like Alex.


Yes, I'm almost certain that's who it was.


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## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

astrohip said:


> Meant to ask earlier...did anyone watching the HD feed have a digital breakup around 16 mins, lasting about a minute? When the HD-TiVo hit it, it froze, I could not get it past that point without doing a 3X FF. I checked later on my SA8300HD, and it had the same garbage. This is on a Time Warner HD feed in Houston. I then checked the S2 TiVo (cable also, but SD feed), and it played fine. But watching that minute on SD after an hour of HD Lost is not fun
> 
> So was it Time Warner, Houston, or everywhere HD?


I will smeek to answer your question. I recorded it on my 622 from the OTA input and had zero problems, not even an artifact.


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

stellie93 said:


> It seems odd that they aren't going to rerun any Lost episodes--or are they? I'd be ready to rewatch these by Christmas. Maybe they think the DVD's will sell better this way.


I don't think they ever said there wouldn't be repeats between now and February. I would guess Day Break has it's run and then they'll repeat some of these LOST eps before the second part of the season starts. That's just a guess though.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

stellie93 said:


> I was also disappointed that Cap'n Mal had such a small role.


No clue who you are referring to there.

It also sounded to me like Alex telling Jack to open the door. She seems to be pretty resourceful and can probably squirrel herself around the ducts to show up where she would be least expected as she searches for Carl, her boyfriend. He probably turned into the polar bear which attacked Eko and now has a burnt face thanks to Locke.  I wanna see Rousseau make an appearance again. Where did she go since netting Ben?
And why did the Others reject Aaron in favor of abducting Waaaaalllttt, only to discover that he has powers, and then to abruptly let him go with traitorous Michael? 

Oh, there's lots to look forward to in February.


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## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

mqpickles said:


> I thought it sounded like Alex.


Then why did Ben ask about Alex, he would have let her let Jack free?.?./.>?


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

UBUBUB said:


> For the last time, can we please get over the whining about the hiatus please! We all asked for it last year after getting non-sequential repeats and clip shows. Had they not gone on hiatus, (after having already endured 3 repeats), we probably would have gotten a new show next week, then maybe 2 more in December and 2 more in January, all new in February (sweeps), all repeats in March, some new in April, and the season finale in May. American Idol starts in January anyway with 3 episode audition weeks. That and the USA shows will tide me over after the holidays.


No one is complaining about the hiatus. People are complaining that the plot progression has been pooptastic.


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## Grumpy Pants (Jul 1, 2002)

getreal said:


> So why would a non-fan continue in this forum? I certainly do not participate in forums for shows of which I am not a fan.
> !


What are you confused about? It isn't that hard to understand I had been a fan of the show, but not any longer. So I came into the thread to post my opinion about this episode. Which I have the right to do.

I was also interested to see if there were other viewers here that feel the way I do. After this thread, I will probably not return to the Lost threads... as I won't be watching any longer. But I am still interested in the posts dropped in this one

Am I only allowed to post "positive" opinions in a TVST thread? Who are you RUmsfeld? You don't have to agree with me, but you do not have to contest the legitimacy of my posting here.

 :down:


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

getreal said:


> No clue who you are referring to there.


Kate's husband was played by Nathan Fillion, who played Captain Mal on Firefly (and the Serenity movie).


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## Grumpy Pants (Jul 1, 2002)

MickeS said:


> I know, but I've never understood that reasoning - why would anyone be a fan of a team that isn't good? If the winning team I liked all of a sudden started losing, why should I like them?
> 
> I agree with your reasoning about TV shows, I just don't understand why it doesn't apply to baseball.


I think there are fans that will stick with a team, regardless of how bad they are and for how long. The rest of us are just fair weather. I do not think anyone will show that kind of loyalty to a TV show if it goes on long enough.

I think sports fans find a much stronger connection with 'their team' than viewers do with 'their show'. That is why there are more baseball caps out there than ABC caps. It is a diffierent type of fandom. Sports teams can represent your city, town, school state or other affiliation.

I also think it can be taken negativley. It is like calling someone a bandwagoner. As if to say "I am not a _real_ fan if I do not stick with it." I was a fan. I am just saying that I am no longer.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Grumpy Pants said:


> Am I only allowed to post "positive" opinions in a TVST thread? Who are you RUmsfeld? You don't have to agree with me, but you do not have to contest the legitimacy of my posting here.
> 
> :down:


I understand your moniker, GP.  No offense was intended. I was simply asking a rhetorical question after reading a slew of posts lambasting the latest episode and the mini-season. Quoting an exerpt from your post just summed up the sentiment of a number of folks. And nobody contested your right to post anywhere, or the legitimacy of your opinions. Take a chill pill, dude, and try on some happy pants. 

As a viewer who has enjoyed the entire run of LOST to date, I have not seen anything so drastically different as far as writing style, pacing, plot, etc. in this mini-season and am confused as to how you and some others have such little patience for the way things are shaping up.

_To all disgruntled LOST viewers who have said you are giving up on the show:_
Do you walk out of movies at the first moment there is a lull in the story? 
Do you skip ahead to the end of a novel, or simply give up on a novel if the story that seemed gripping at the start seems to slow down or challenge your thinking in the middle? 
Do you leave your spouse/significant-Other at the first inkling that the excitement is waning?

C'mon, gang .... as my moniker says, get real!! LOST is just a collaborative and creative work of fiction which is unfolding at its own pace. It has challenged our thinking in the past and we were up to it. Now the story is taking on a new direction as we spend time with the Others and we need to stick with it. Or not. But the whining is the part that gets tiring for those of us who still enjoy the show.

That's all. Okay, so I'm done whining about the whining. Wine anyone? I'm cracking open a nice Merlot. :up:


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

getreal said:


> _To all disgruntled LOST viewers who have said you are giving up on the show:_
> Do you walk out of movies at the first moment there is a lull in the story?
> Do you skip ahead to the end of a novel, or simply give up on a novel if the story that seemed gripping at the start seems to slow down or challenge your thinking in the middle?


Get real right back at you!

Apples and oranges. In your first two questions you're comparing apples and oranges. A movie is finite. A novel is finite. Lost is an ongoing work of fiction, with no end in sight. First time? You think this fall cliffhanger is the first time fans of Lost have been teased and mislead? Get real! No one likes to be teased. Do you like it when a date, someone you've been seeing for a long time, promises you the best night of your life, a night that will change everything, and then when the nights over your expectations weren't met because your date didn't put out as promised?

By the way, I haven't given up on the show, but I am disgruntled. Call me "disgruntled pants".


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## Todd (Oct 7, 1999)

getreal said:


> I understand your moniker, GP.  No offense was intended. I was simply asking a rhetorical question after reading a slew of posts lambasting the latest episode and the mini-season. Quoting an exerpt from your post just summed up the sentiment of a number of folks. And nobody contested your right to post anywhere, or the legitimacy of your opinions. Take a chill pill, dude, and try on some happy pants.
> 
> As a viewer who has enjoyed the entire run of LOST to date, I have not seen anything so drastically different as far as writing style, pacing, plot, etc. in this mini-season and am confused as to how you and some others have such little patience for the way things are shaping up.
> 
> ...


Couldn't have said it better myself! :up:


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

drew2k said:


> No one likes to be teased. Do you like it when a date, someone you've been seeing for a long time, promises you the best night of your life, a night that will change everything, and then when the nights over your expectations weren't met because your date didn't put out as promised?
> 
> ... Call me "disgruntled pants".


Well, now you're speaking in a language I can understand. That was a good way to summarize your frustration.
Thanks, disgruntled pants.


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

Did someone say wine?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

drew2k said:


> Lost is an ongoing work of fiction, with no end in sight.


Actually, the end _is_ in sight--at the end of the fifth season. They've almost reached the halfway point.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

RBlount said:


> The pattern seems to follow that most major characters die only after they achieve some sort peace with their life and existance. Boone reconciled with his feelings for Shannon. Shannon reconciled her life and found someone to love in Syaid. Ana-Lucia came to grips with her anger over being shot. Eko reconciled his past with his existance.


I may be out of line creatively here, but I have a possibly heretical theory about this. I don't think it's the reconciling that causes the death, I think it's the upcoming death that makes the writers wish to "finish up" a character.

I'm not commenting on whether that's good or bad, so hold your stones.  But it does point away from the Purgatory theory, and I'll bet the producers would even admit to it (if someone ever asked them).

And while not a major role, Arzt for instance didn't find peace with his life, his life ...

_(wait for it)_

... went to pieces.


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## avery (May 29, 2006)

Reading through this thread, there's been not-unexpected speculation as to who Jacob is/could be. To me, the mention that Jack wasn't on Jacob's "list" puts him in some capacity as a decision maker. No in-depth analysis here, but this is what just ran through my mind...

Spiritual references have been a recurring theme throughout the show.

Ben is on record as having lived on the island his whole life. [whether born there or brought at a very young age]

What if Jacob was one of the original leaders of Dharma and still retains his status as the "Elder-Other"... but the reins of authority have passed to Ben, his son?!

_In the Bible, Benjamin was Jacob's son._

.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

drew2k said:


> No one likes to be teased. Do you like it when a date, someone you've been seeing for a long time, promises you the best night of your life, a night that will change everything, and then when the nights over your expectations weren't met because your date didn't put out as promised?


Not fair. The writers of Lost have no control over the previews, and that's been pointed out before (recently). As far as the previews go (with their fantastic claim and scenes pulled out of context) you might as well consider them to be not canon.

So, if you read a story in the New York Times that said this week's episode is going to be the best ever, and it turns out it isn't, are you going to get all huffy and puffy with the Lost writers over it?


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## Dmtalon (Dec 28, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Because they are a presence in your local community, generate revenue, represent local pride, etc.?


As silly as "this" argument has been, this post was even more amusing to me... Generate money for who? Thank God I don't live in Hamilton County, OH (Cincinnati) where they passed a bill to pay for the 'new stadium' where the multimillion dollar contract baseball players can play. Seems like the Reds are generating Debt, not revenue. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong. Not sure what, other than entertainment, professional sports bring to a local economy. Some misc taxes from the ticket sales? I'm sure your average person benefits from those taxes...


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## Grumpy Pants (Jul 1, 2002)

getreal said:


> Well, now you're speaking in a language I can understand. That was a good way to summarize your frustration.
> Thanks, disgruntled pants.


Yeah!!! What he said!!


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

I noticed this production still on Amazon's Season 1 DVD page. It doesn't exactly make things difficult for photoshoppers.


----------



## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

spelcheker said:


> Kate doesn't love Sawyer.
> 
> That was a pity you-know-what.
> 
> ...


I think she does love him. I agree that the whole purpose of the flashback was to show that she could not settle down or love a good person. I don't remember her saying she loved her husband in the entire flashback. Also, she never showed the passion she showed with Sawyer.



devdogaz said:


> I think the thing that you're not realizing is that the first season was mysterious because they introduced a whole bunch of mysterious possibilities and then the fans went crazy with imagination and theories and stuff. So in our minds, especially those reading these threads, there were thousands of outlandish possibilities, any of which could come to pass.


 This is simialr to The Matrix, IMO. Fans assumed or surmised things that in teh end seemed much more interesting to many than what the Watchowski Bros (siblings?) had in mind and were dissapointed.



getreal said:


> I have a new theory about Ben's x-rays. What if his x-ray actually showed a normal spine, but Juliet spilled some coffee on it when she set her mug over the area of the "apparent tumor"? That way she can convince Ben to go under the knife and she can pull off her coup by using Dr. Jack Kervorkian to perform the operation!


That is intersting, because I was thinking last night that if he was truly that bad off, there is no reason to Have Jack kill Ben in the surgery, since Ben would be dead soon anyway. That way he would be dead and she would not have the risk of being exposed as plotting against him.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Dmtalon said:


> Not sure what, other than entertainment, professional sports bring to a local economy.


Well, were kind of off topic here but
1) Jobs for the people who are employed by the stadium (handling tickets, cleaning up, selling overpriced food and souvenirs, security, etc).
2) lots of revenue for nearby businesses (especially those providing parking, food, lodging, and transportation). 
3)taxes on the paychecks for #1 and the revenues for #2, and since a lot of people that attend the event come from other cities, thats a net gain for the city itself.
4)A lot of the arenas wouldn't be economically feasible without a major sports team to support it. But once its there, it's available on other nights and year round for concerts, smaller league sports, etc. And each of those events provides benefits #1, #2, and #3.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

LordKronos said:


> Not fair. The writers of Lost have no control over the previews, and that's been pointed out before (recently). As far as the previews go (with their fantastic claim and scenes pulled out of context) you might as well consider them to be not canon.
> 
> So, if you read a story in the New York Times that said this week's episode is going to be the best ever, and it turns out it isn't, are you going to get all huffy and puffy with the Lost writers over it?


I can be upset at whoever I want to, and I'm certainly not alone. Have you been reading MSNBC? Zap2it? Newsday? This forum? There are lots of articles (and posts) about how Lost is just not as satisfying as it once was. Ratings are also declining. Is that the fault of the ABC promo department, or of the writers?

The writers and the network knew coming in into this season that there would be a fall cliffhanger, with a 13 week break coming up. The writers of Lost know they have no control over previews. Most shows also have to submit scripts to the network for approval before production of said scripts begins. Both hands know what the other is doing. There's enough blame to go around.

As I've already posted, though, I will still be watching, for I am almost as much a captive of the island as the survivors of Oceanic Flight 815.


----------



## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Actually, the end _is_ in sight--at the end of the fifth season. They've almost reached the halfway point.


Are you saying there is a five year story arc for Lost? Five-years and out? I never heard that!


----------



## mitchb2 (Sep 30, 2000)

I also say *yawn* to this episode. Very bad choice to go on hiatus with this. I will have completely forgotten about Lost by February, and will be on to newer pastures.

Long live Heroes.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

mitchb2 said:


> I also say *yawn* to this episode. Very bad choice to go on hiatus with this. I will have completely forgotten about Lost by February, and will be on to newer pastures.
> 
> Long live Heroes.


I am amazed that it took this long for someone to bring up "Heroes" (maybe I missed a message?).


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Delta13 said:


> And while not a major role, Arzt for instance didn't find peace with his life, his life ...
> 
> _(wait for it)_
> 
> ... went to pieces.


Dude, you got some Artz on you.

That still has to be one of my favorite lines in the whole series!


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Fool Me Twice said:


> I noticed this production still on Amazon's Season 1 DVD page. It doesn't exactly make things difficult for photoshoppers.


It doesn't NEED to be Photoshopped. Looks just fine the way it is. 

Greg


----------



## canonelan2 (May 11, 2001)

bqmeister said:


> I'm doubtful the numbers will ever be brought up again. I'll be shocked if we see them again.
> 
> for that, I'm upset with Lost, but I liked this episode and will continue to watch.
> 
> ...


+1 No more lost in SD for me either! We're getting an LCD for the bedroom and a DLP for the living room. :up: Looking greatly forward to some (hopefully better) Lost in HD


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Lee L said:


> That is intersting, because I was thinking last night that if he was truly that bad off, there is no reason to Have Jack kill Ben in the surgery, since Ben would be dead soon anyway. That way he would be dead and she would not have the risk of being exposed as plotting against him.


Sure, _if_ Jack doesn't perform the surgery. If this coup attempt is real and not just some weird mind-game (I'm not convinced), I'm sure Juliet fully anticipated that Jack would eventually do the surgery, one way or another.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

Lee L said:


> I think she does love him. I agree that the whole purpose of the flashback was to show that she could not settle down or love a good person. I don't remember her saying she loved her husband in the entire flashback.


She said it several times.

I think the point was that she couldn't stay put -- as the Marshall said. When hubby told her to get her passport ready, it became clear that she couldn't continue her ruse. Once she started running again, her "deal" with the Marshall was off.


----------



## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

MacThor said:


> She said it several times.
> 
> I think the point was that she couldn't stay put -- as the Marshall said. When hubby told her to get her passport ready, it became clear that she couldn't continue her ruse. Once she started running again, her "deal" with the Marshall was off.


Well, I could be wrong then.


----------



## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

Lee L said:


> Well, I could be wrong then.


Well, you're just proving that the flashbacks were forgettable.


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

MacThor said:


> Well, you're just proving that the flashbacks were forgettable.


They sure have been. The ones with Kate and Locke, especially. Gee, Kate is on the run and can't have a relationship...who knew?


----------



## KarmaPolis (Nov 9, 2006)

Hey man first of all congrats on the post! Im pretty new here as well and hope to take that important step as well soon.

Concerning Lost it was definately not the best episode ever in my humble opinion but their was one thing I loved. Jack! 

I really liked him in the first season, second season he was a whiny lil bastard, and on this show in the end of the episode it seems like he refound himself. I think this is all about how Locke and Jack the two original leaders refinding themselves and leaders. What do you guys think?

Peace!


----------



## Supfreak26 (Dec 12, 2003)

VERY disappointing 1/2 season finale here. 

I was actually enjoying what Jack was doing at the end but it shouldn't have ended there. It was just starting to get good!

The problem with this finale is that every story written about the show stated that the first 6 eps would be treated like it's own little mini-season. Yet here we are at the end of the 6 episodes and we are not much further along than we were at the end of S2! 

Too much hype and no payoff. That's what this show is about and that is why people are getting fed up with it. 

It's like paying for a happy ending and just getting a massage. 

I'll continue to watch but that's not saying much since I watched Charmed and That 70's Show until the end. At least Lost isn't that painful. (yet)


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

mqpickles said:


> I thought it sounded like Alex.


If it was Alex, it seems like she has free run of the underwater hatch, which makes the idea of the underwater tunnel between the 2 islands more likely. She seems to run back and forth pretty frequently.

When Alex "asked about" Ben, I took it that she was asking to bring her concerns to the boss--going over their heads. But when Ben asked about her it sounded more like an affectionate thing. Like he wanted to know if she was concerned about his health. Didn't really sound like she was, to me.


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

Supfreak26 said:


> It's like paying for a happy ending and just getting a massage.


I'd recommend not paying up front. That's one reason I don't watch previews.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Supfreak26 said:


> The problem with this finale is that every story written about the show stated that the first 6 eps would be treated like it's own little mini-season. Yet here we are at the end of the 6 episodes and we are not much further along than we were at the end of S2!


Wow, that just boggles my mind. I guess people really do think differently; I thought they did as much in these six episodes (with the Others) as they did the entire last season (with the Tailies).

I agree, however, that it was a pretty poor cliffhanger for a three-month hiatus.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Supfreak26 said:


> The problem with this finale is that every story written about the show stated that the first 6 eps would be treated like it's own little mini-season. Yet here we are at the end of the 6 episodes and we are not much further along than we were at the end of S2!





Rob Helmerichs said:


> Wow, that just boggles my mind. I guess people really do think differently; I thought they did as much in these six episodes (with the Others) as they did the entire last season (with the Tailies).


Those two statements are not at all mutually exclusive. In fact, that they are not mutually exclusive is exactly the problem.


----------



## TiMo Tim (Jul 20, 2001)

drew2k said:


> First time? You think this fall cliffhanger is the first time fans of Lost have been teased and mislead? Get real! No one likes to be teased. Do you like it when a date, someone you've been seeing for a long time, promises you the best night of your life, a night that will change everything, and then when the nights over your expectations weren't met because your date didn't put out as promised?


And there you have it-- different expectations. Your date said "the best night of your life, a night that will change everything", and you assumed that meant "putting out". Did the network/writers/producers/creators promise you something specific that they didn't deliver? OK, maybe EVERYTHING didn't change, only SOME THINGS.

Please don't lose sight of the fact that "it's only TV."


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

I just finished watching this...

And Captain Mal looked HAWT :up:


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

tivoboyjr said:


> They sure have been. The ones with Kate and Locke, especially. Gee, Kate is on the run and can't have a relationship...who knew?


Well it was more than a relationship - she was married.

But I still do not understand how people can have followed the show this long and not realized that more than anything the show is about the characters and their history. When someone says "nothing happened", I can understand it if they are still expecting a series of story-changing events. But at this point, anyone who IS needs to look for another show. I guess that's what some people are doing, and I can't blame them... but then they have not been paying attention to the show so far.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

nyny523 said:


> I just finished watching this...
> 
> And Captain Mal looked HAWT :up:


Too bad about the Jets this Sunday. I'll be there.

- sawyer


----------



## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

I wonder if next year's 16 episodes will include one or more recap episode?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I'd imagine there will be a recap episode on Jan. 31, the week before new episodes begin, but once the new eps start on Feb. 7, there won't be any repeats or recaps through the end of the season.


----------



## Fl_Gulfer (May 27, 2005)

When Jack looks at him and says 'At least you won't be disappointed for long.' was The best line of the whole series. They must have hired another writer. I am also getting board with the show, and when they pulled this [see ya in Febuary chit] that did it for me. It's bad enough that they cut the seasons for TV shows to 20 weeks a year from 26.


----------



## CarynFromHermosa (Sep 26, 2005)

Did anyone notice that Ben said the same thing to Jack that Desmond did "See you on the other side"? Hmmmm... Maybe Desmond actually knew he was going to see Jack because he already had (presuming he has some weird time travel/future seeing ability).


----------



## avery (May 29, 2006)

Yes. It definitely brought me back to the scene in the stadium with Jack/Desmond. Significance?? I took it merely as a small nod to the fans - just something fun for us to "catch".


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

CarynFromHermosa said:


> Did anyone notice that Ben said the same thing to Jack that Desmond did "See you on the other side"?


I seem to recall the quote as "See you in another life, brothuh!"
He said it to Jack in the stadium in Season 1, and again to Locke just before running away from the hatch early on in Season 2.


----------



## tubsone (Apr 15, 2006)

getreal said:


> Well, I'm disappointed in the amount of vitriolic whining from such fairweather fans of LOST. :down:
> 
> I enjoyed the episode.
> 
> ...


All the fairweather fans and haters.....There's the door,Hit the road before you miss the bandwagon.

LOST?......Best show on Television!


----------



## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

mwhip said:


> Would it just be easier if I poked my self with something sharp then endure this torture?


You could do that. But it would be wrong. Watching Lost, to the extent that in an abstract way you as a small piece of data might affect ratings, helps the economy, helps ABC (or wherever it's on) meet its obligation to use the publicly-owned airwaves to promote the public welfare.

Your comment is so incredibly selfish it was painful for me to respond.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

philw1776 said:


> Too bad about the Jets this Sunday. I'll be there.
> 
> - sawyer


This post should teach us all many things:

1. Don't hijack a Lost thread to talk about an unrelated topic.
2. Don't be an ******.
3. Don't count your chickens before they are hatched. 

We now return to our regularly scheduled Lost thread - and I do apologize to everyone for the hijack...but if you were me, you would have felt compelled to do it, too!!!


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

nyny523 said:


> This post should teach us all many things:
> 
> 1. Don't hijack a Lost thread to talk about an unrelated topic.
> 2. Don't be an ******.
> ...


How many chickens are in the hatch?


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Fl_Gulfer said:


> When Jack looks at him and says 'At least you won't be disappointed for long.' was The best line of the whole series. They must have hired another writer. I am also getting board with the show, and when they pulled this [see ya in Febuary chit] that did it for me.


Did what?



Fl_Gulfer said:


> It's bad enough that they cut the seasons for TV shows to 20 weeks a year from 26.


They did? I guess nobody told the producers of the TV shows.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Figaro said:


> How many chickens are in the hatch?


14-17....


----------



## lonwolf615 (May 19, 2004)

MickeS said:


> But I still do not understand how people can have followed the show this long and not realized that more than anything the show is about the characters and their history. When someone says "nothing happened", I can understand it if they are still expecting a series of story-changing events. But at this point, anyone who IS needs to look for another show. I guess that's what some people are doing, and I can't blame them... but then they have not been paying attention to the show so far.


Thats my feelings exactly. Best post I've ever read about this show.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

tubsone said:


> All the fairweather fans and haters.....There's the door,Hit the road before you miss the bandwagon.
> 
> LOST?......Best show on Television!


If all of us "fairweather fans" jumped ship because we don't like the way this season's series has progressed so far, Lost wouldn't be on next year. Best show on television? Hardly. The Wire and BSG blow Lost's doors off.

I don't know why so many people get personally offended because esomebody else criticizes a show like Lost.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

MickeS said:


> They did? I guess nobody told the producers of the TV shows.


My thoughts exactly. I know I suck at math but I know that the six episodes we've seen plus the 16 new ones that start in Feb add up to more than just 20 episodes. It may not be 26 but I don't think there's ever been 26 episodes of LOST in one season.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

unicorngoddess said:


> My thoughts exactly. I know I suck at math but I know that the six episodes we've seen plus the 16 new ones that start in Feb add up to more than just 20 episodes. It may not be 26 but I don't think there's ever been 26 episodes of LOST in one season.


Season 1 had 25 episodes + 1 special/recap show
Season 2 had 24 episodes + 3 special/recap shows


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

dswallow said:


> Season 1 had 25 episodes + 1 special/recap show
> Season 2 had 24 episodes + 3 special/recap shows


Season 1 had a two-part season pilot and a two-part finale though. There's 24 if you count them all individually. And I don't count the recaps as new episodes. And according to ABC.com season 2 only had 23 Episodes.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

unicorngoddess said:


> Season 1 had a two-part season pilot and a two-part finale though. There's 24 if you count them all individually. And I don't count the recaps as new episodes. And according to ABC.com season 2 only had 23 Episodes.


I made a mistake; there's 24 in season 1 and 24 in season 2. Yes, the season 2 finale was a 2-hour episode, but technically it's still 2 episodes. Season 1's "2-hour pilot" was broadcast over 2 weeks as 2 one-hour episodes.

I don't count the specials as anything but pure wasteful garbage meant to attract advertisers and fans too stupid to realize they're recap episodes until they're already watching them.  But that doesn't change the fact they were produced.


----------



## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

Grumpy Pants said:


> Fairweather fans? This isn't baseball.





gchance said:


> Thank GOD. If it had been, I never would have gotten through the pilot.


I watched a baseball game once, but by the end of the third inning, they still hadn't answered any of the questions.



drew2k said:


> Call me "disgruntled pants".


We need a pantsgruntler here, stat!

Jack taking control of the situation was a breath of fresh air. I will be very disappointed when it falls apart on him.

Watching people get worn down and hopeless can start to feel worn down and hopeless. I hope some of what's got this season in such a rut is that, and that when they get out of it, so will we.


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Hunter Green said:


> I watched a baseball game once, but by the end of the third inning, they still hadn't answered any of the questions.


 :up:


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Phew! Caught up! Nothing to say. Didn't smeek.


----------



## mark1278 (Nov 6, 2006)

I read this thread because I enjoy other opinions about the content of the show. If you do not like to watch, then DON'T! STOP WHINING!


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

mark1278 said:


> I read this thread because I enjoy other opinions about the content of the show. If you do not like to watch, then DON'T! STOP WHINING!


If you don't like criticism and opposing viewpoints then don't read and post.


----------



## lonwolf615 (May 19, 2004)

Figaro said:


> If you don't like criticism and opposing viewpoints then don't read and post.


I think all he's trying to say is he wants to discuss the content of the show, not the personal reactions some have towards it. Seems like a reasonable request.


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

personal reactions are some of the best parts.


----------



## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

I loved this episode!

I hated this episode!

I hated that I loved this episode!

I loved that I hated this episode!

All of the above are valid personal reactions, and all are welcome here. If we only discussed plot points, and ignored our reactions to those, how mundane would these threads be?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

It is kind of a nuisance, however, when some of the same people come in week after week and B&M over how the show has jumped the shark.

One wishes they would put themselves out of their misery and change the channel.

Oops, missed this:


drew2k said:


> Are you saying there is a five year story arc for Lost? Five-years and out? I never heard that!


The show was pitched with a five-year storyline. That's been their plan since before filming began.

Of course, if it remains a hit for five years, I'm sure they'll find a way to go on. And I'm sure there's a lot of wiggle room to wrap it up sooner or drag it out longer. But their plan has always been five years.


----------



## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The show was pitched with a five-year storyline. That's been their plan since before filming began.
> 
> Of course, if it remains a hit for five years, I'm sure they'll find a way to go on. And I'm sure there's a lot of wiggle room to wrap it up sooner or drag it out longer. But their plan has always been five years.


I really had no idea about "The Plan" for Lost, and hope we hit year 5 to see how the planned story plays out. If we do reach that mark and the show is still popluar, I'm sure the show runners can easily come up with a spinoff from some of the popular characters, or maybe a prequel about the DHARMA project.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

I've known about the 5-year story plan since the first season DVDs came out (if not earlier - can't remember), and to be honest that's been a large part of why I've been frustrated from time to time by people's "HURRY UP AND ANSWER QUESTIONS!" complaints..

A story that has a well-thought-out story line, with things planned for many years in the future from now, deserves the right to set its own pace, in my opinion. We shouldn't all be bored, of course - it has to be interesting.. But even though I consider myself a man of science, I feel I have more _faith_ in the writers to wrap it up satisfactorily than most of the complainers here.

(As an atheist I feel a need to point out that in this case, I think the "faith" is well deserved, since we've seen story lines planned out since the beginning of the show intertwined throughout the past 3 seasons, and many questions that seemed completely baffling ("Why is there a plate of _metal_ buried beneath the dirt on a remote island???") have actually been answered and now seem like old hat. Whereas I normally consider blind faith a bad thing (since it's undeserved), here it's not quite 'blind' - we have many examples that let (some of) us _believe_ that they'll wrap things up satisfactorily, and that it's going somewhere.)

I hope they do a better job fitting the story on that 5-year frame than Babylon 5 did.. Despite my gut, I let a friend talk me into watching the show (all of it - every episode, in order). The first three seasons actually weren't bad, because there was this sense that it was going somewhere.. Then some external force made them stretch it out or something, wrapping up the main story about two seasons early, leaving the end _reallly_ dull, and almost ruining the earlier seasons.

(And last point - they better end it better than Alias too.. Grrrr)


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jkeegan said:


> I hope they do a better job fitting the story on that 5-year frame than Babylon 5 did.. Despite my gut, I let a friend talk me into watching the show (all of it - every episode, in order). The first three seasons actually weren't bad, because there was this sense that it was going somewhere.. Then some external force made them stretch it out or something, wrapping up the main story about two seasons early, leaving the end _reallly_ dull, and almost ruining the earlier seasons.


What actually happened on B5 was they had a 5-year story, but after the third year they were told that the "network" the show was airing on would fold after the fourth, and there was no word on whether anybody else would pick up the show. So they took the storylines for the last two years, and divided them, ending some of them early during the fourth year, and not introducing some of them until the fifth. The result was that everything that was planned happened, but it was not as organic as it would have been had they stuck to the original plan.

With ABC, it's probably good news/bad news. The odds of ABC going out of business in the next 1.5 years is pretty slim, so we don't have to worry about a B5-type fiasco. On the other hand, if ABC pulls the plug, there won't be anywhere near a year's notice, so they probably wouldn't be able to wrap it up even as well as B5 did. Fortunately, it looks like even with the ratings decline, Lost is continuing to be a strong, if mildly disappointing, performer, so we'll probably get our five years. I just hope that as Year Five rolls around, ABC doesn't get greedy and decide to mess with the story; it would be nice to have them say, "OK, we had our run, let's end it right."


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Where did they say it was pitched with a five year arc? They greenlit the pilot without a script. That's not a five year pitch to me.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The show was pitched with a five-year storyline. That's been their plan since before filming began.
> 
> Of course, if it remains a hit for five years, I'm sure they'll find a way to go on.


Hopefully if they extend it past 5 years, they won't do what the writers of M*A*S*H did when they came up with "After-M*A*S*H". :down: 
We don't need to follow a couple of characters after being rescued from the island.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Figaro said:


> Where did they say it was pitched with a five year arc? They greenlit the pilot without a script. That's not a five year pitch to me.


They greenlit the pilot based on the five-year story that was pitched.

A pitch is not a script. They had the five years planned out (to whatever degree), but obviously they hadn't written five years' worth of scripts.


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

They said on the DVD that they only had an outline for the pilot. I don't remember them saying anything about a 5 year arc.


----------



## Philly Bill (Oct 6, 2004)

Why do we all believe that they're now on the 'Alcatraz' island and not on their original one?

Because Ben showed Sawyer another island a few miles from the one they were standing on and said 'There is YOUR island'?

Why can't they still be on the original island and the one Ben pointed to is just another island that couldn't be seen from the shores of the plane crash? Just to screw with their heads and make them feel like there was no escape?


----------



## lonwolf615 (May 19, 2004)

Philly Bill said:


> Why do we all believe that they're now on the 'Alcatraz' island and not on their original one?
> 
> Because Ben showed Sawyer another island a few miles from the one they were standing on and said 'There is YOUR island'?
> 
> Why can't they still be on the original island and the one Ben pointed to is just another island that couldn't be seen from the shores of the plane crash? Just to screw with their heads and make them feel like there was no escape?


Thought the same thing. It would explain a few things, wouldn't it? 
One of the things about this show is that nothing can be taken at face value, which of course every regular viewer knows. And they know we know, and use our doubts to slip even more past us. 
I still think the greatest strength of the show is the character development. Even within the serial format, most of the episodes are remarkably complete, like a series of short stories that eventually come together to form a whole. To those who complain about "nothing happens", I can only shake my head. There's all kinds of things going on in every episode if one can view it on its own terms without worrying about the overall mystery.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

See, I'd have to rewatch it, but the way I remember it, the reason he brought Sawyer up to the top of the hill was so that he could see not only the other island but also so he could see the rough size of the island he was currently on.. At least that was the impression I got from the land they showed behind them - that they were trying to show something that gave us the impression that the island was actually small (although it's tough to actually film, since you can't create a new island, but rather have to make due with an existing one..  )


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

One reason they can't be on the original island is that Alcatraz is very small, and if Sawyer were standing on high ground, it would be very obvious that the island he was on was nowhere near the size of the island he crashed on.


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## kbohip (Dec 30, 2003)

Okay I'm (way) late to this thread but for some reason I'm one of the only people here who has liked this season for the most part. I guess I just like the introduction of the Others the most. I hated last the last season of Lost and almost stopped watching it altogether, but I really liked this seasons premiere. 

I am quite tired of all the questions this show likes to bring up and never answer though, and I'm REALLY tired of how it has to bring up a lot more questions while answering hardly any of the age old ones. I agree with what someone else here asked earlier in the thread too, why hasn't Jack, Kate, or Sawyer simply asked the Others who they are and how they got there? I know the response would be "wouldn't you like to know" but I'd still at least like one of them to ask the question!


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

kbohip said:


> I agree with what someone else here asked earlier in the thread too, why hasn't Jack, Kate, or Sawyer simply asked the Others who they are and how they got there? I know the response would be "wouldn't you like to know" but I'd still at least like one of them to ask the question!


"We're the good guys, Michael."

Greg


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

kbohip said:


> I agree with what someone else here asked earlier in the thread too, why hasn't Jack, Kate, or Sawyer simply asked the Others who they are and how they got there? I know the response would be "wouldn't you like to know" but I'd still at least like one of them to ask the question!





gchance said:


> "We're the good guys, Michael."


Oh snap! kbohip, you just got served! 

Seriously, it seems like most of the time when people ask why something hasn't been answered, it has been.

Good quick answer/quote, gchance!


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> Oh snap! kbohip, you just got served!
> 
> Seriously, it seems like most of the time when people ask why something hasn't been answered, it has been.
> 
> Good quick answer/quote, gchance!


The correct response to "we're the good guys" (from Michael or Jack or anyone else) is "WTF is that supposed to mean?"


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

aindik said:


> The correct response to "we're the good guys" (from Michael or Jack or anyone else) is "WTF is that supposed to mean?"


:up:

Yes. Discourse is good.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

By the way, WOW! This episode was great! HOLY CRAP! Can you believe that happened?!?! Oh my gosh, now we know Jack did the surgery but we now want to know how Kate and Sawyer will get away!

Hey, are any of you guys watching Daybreak? It's not Lost, but it's pretty good and fills the slot. When's Lost starting back up anyway?


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> By the way, WOW! This episode was great! HOLY CRAP! Can you believe that happened?!?! Oh my gosh, now we know Jack did the surgery but we now want to know how Kate and Sawyer will get away!
> 
> Hey, are any of you guys watching Daybreak? It's not Lost, but it's pretty good and fills the slot. When's Lost starting back up anyway?


Watch Ground Hood Day? Nah. Are you posting unhidden spoilers in there?


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## RangersRBack (Jan 9, 2006)

Figaro said:


> Watch Ground Hood Day? Nah. Are you posting unhidden spoilers in there?


OK dude now that Lost has a fork in it for the season, maybe it's time for another 'Who's going to play Wonder Woman' thread!


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

RangersRBack said:


> OK dude now that Lost has a fork in it for the season, maybe it's time for another 'Who's going to play Wonder Woman' thread!


I think that thread qualifies for the list of "things with forks in them."


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

RangersRBack said:


> OK dude now that Lost has a fork in it for the season, maybe it's time for another 'Who's going to play Wonder Woman' thread!


Shame on you! We must not leer!


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

drew2k said:


> If we only discussed plot points, and ignored our reactions to those, how mundane would these threads be?


Well, for one thing, they wouldn't be 270 posts and growing. And it wouldn't take jkeegan a whole week to get caught up on the discussion.

Anyone care to count up the number of posts actually discussing the episode vs. the number of I-hate-lost/jumped-the-shark/I'm-watching-Heroes-instead/blah-blah-blah posts?


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

LordKronos said:


> Well, for one thing, they wouldn't be 270 posts and growing. And it wouldn't take jkeegan a whole week to get caught up on the discussion.
> 
> Anyone care to count up the number of posts actually discussing the episode vs. the number of I-hate-lost/jumped-the-shark/I'm-watching-Heroes-instead/blah-blah-blah posts?


271!!!!!

Shark thread!

Heroes sucks!

boobs!


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Figaro said:


> Watch Ground Hood Day? Nah. Are you posting unhidden spoilers in there?


Isn't Daybreak show trailers/teasers for Lost? Or maybe I should DID it? I didn't watch, so I am not sure....I just remember something, from somewhere saying there would be.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Sigh. I thought there was at least a gchance someone would recognize it.


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## devlindark (Jul 20, 2005)

This Show was so great Season 1 with the end of them opening the hatch and looking down at the ladder as the camera pulls away down the hatch, GREAT 
pulled me right in, Seaons two with the Tailies was even better.
But now this show has done nothing but JUMP THE SHARK 
I mean they blow up the hatch and there are no answers as to what it was for or about it's just blown up - thats it nothing more said about it, this season has been horrible sence episode 1, the others suck no one knows who what or why they are on the island anymore than they do at this point and the BS commercials claiming there is going to be some great payoff to the viewers each episode was completely misleading because nothing really happened, I feel like I am trapped in a really long episode 1 and they forgot to edit it down to and hour. We as viewers have yet to be given anything that would keep us interested but we will watch no the less and hope that this season does has some payout in FEB


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## skinnyjm (Feb 10, 2005)

...the last 30 seconds of the last _LOST_ episode,

PeeWee Herman (or maybe one of the _LOST_ cast) will wake up in his flannel PJs, stretch out his arms and say
"Wow!, That was a weird dream".


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

devlindark said:


> I mean they blow up the hatch and there are no answers as to what it was for or about it's just blown up - thats it nothing more said about it, this season has been horrible sence episode 1, the others suck no one knows who what or why they are on the island anymore than they do at this point and the BS commercials claiming there is going to be some great payoff to the viewers each episode was completely misleading because nothing really happened, I feel like I am trapped in a really long episode 1 and they forgot to edit it down to and hour.


..and I felt like I was trapped in a really long run-on sentence. 

(just kidding!)


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

skinnyjm said:


> ...the last 30 seconds of the last _LOST_ episode,
> PeeWee Herman (or maybe one of the _LOST_ cast) will wake up in his flannel PJs, stretch out his arms and say
> "Wow!, That was a weird dream".


No, it should definitely be Bob Newhart.


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