# So You Think You Can Dance Season 11 (spoilers OK)



## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

SYTYCD Season 11 starts Wednesday 5/28. Nigel Lythgoe is making noises as if Fox is seriously considering ending the show after this season, but I don't see it happening as long as it gets decent summer ratings.

A couple of changes this year:

First, no more "plane tickets to Vegas" - Vegas Week is now in LA somewhere. I wonder how they're going to handle this at the LA auditions.

Second, in each of the four audition city episodes, there will be two "dance crews" shown; viewers send Twitter tweets with one or the other's hashtag, and the one (out of all eight, I presume) with the most tweets gets to perform in the show's finale. Note that there was zero mention of this in any official audition announcement.


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## Tracy (Mar 12, 2000)

I really like this show and hope it doesn't go away. Not sure what I would do to revitalize it, though. I guess the dance crew feature is to attract younger viewers.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

Tracy said:


> Not sure what I would do to revitalize it, though.


I know what I wouldn't do, and that is to bring in Justin Bieber.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

_Not_ looking forward to the Biebs on my TV...


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Cearbhaill said:


> Not looking forward to the Biebs on my TV...


That's why they make FF buttons.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Anyone else catch "Big Ballet" on Ovation last night?
If there is interest I'll start a thread.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

TonyD79 said:


> That's why they make FF buttons.


Yeah, I ff through all the Bieber parts--don't even know what that's all about--don't even care. Otherwise it seems like the same old show. Good summer fare. :up:

The guy whose Dad died sure did suck at choreography. He looked so awkward. I could do better.


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## Tracy (Mar 12, 2000)

Bieber and his buddy were just phoning it in. Very stupid.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

Does anything after the group/Bieber stuff start have any bearing on the 'real' show? I just stopped it after they were done with the regular auditions. Did I miss anything of any importance?


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## cl8855 (Jan 2, 2009)

love this show! that is all


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## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

cl8855 said:


> love this show! that is all


Me too! It just seems so good natured. Only downside for me is screaming Mary, but there's always mute for her and FF for biebs.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

David Platt said:


> Does anything after the group/Bieber stuff start have any bearing on the 'real' show? I just stopped it after they were done with the regular auditions. Did I miss anything of any importance?


It was all about getting people to tweet for which dance crew they wanted to see perform on the show (for the finale?)

It is fun to see someone's crew if there's a contestant in the show who is part of a crew, but for the most part, I wish the crews would have their own showcase. If Nigel wants to clone ABDC he should just do that and not half-ass it.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

David Platt said:


> Does anything after the group/Bieber stuff start have any bearing on the 'real' show? I just stopped it after they were done with the regular auditions. Did I miss anything of any importance?


Did you see the Chicago (or as they called it, "Chi-Beria") auditions? There were two "appearances" of the crews; after they danced, they showed day 1 of the Chicago auditions (which ended with...


Spoiler



Caleb (the boy who was put through to choreography in New Orleans but was told by Nigel that he needed much more partner work) showed up in Chicago (in real time, this would have been four weeks later), was put through to choreography again, and this time made it to LA


...then ended with a recap of the two crews and how the vote currently stood. (Assuming the west coast tally was up-to-date and not just a repeat of the eastern broadcast tally, the women had something like 75% of the vote.)


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

1. I REALLY want the female tap crew to be on the show.
2. ENOUGH with the dancing Dads, ok?


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

jehma said:


> 1. I REALLY want the female tap crew to be on the show.


I have a feeling Nigel does as well. I wouldn't be surprised if he put them up against what he feels is the weakest crew of the other seven. If I read correctly, this isn't an "elimination contest", so being up against a weak crew would be an advantage as your vote percentage would be inflated as a result.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Is the "female tap crew" part of the Bieber section? Is it any good, because I just ff through it.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> Is the "female tap crew" part of the Bieber section? Is it any good, because I just ff through it.[/QUOTE
> Bieber just introduces the acts. Once he is off and the dancing starts, it is safe.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

That Don Guy said:


> Did you see the Chicago (or as they called it, "Chi-Beria") auditions? There were two "appearances" of the crews; after they danced, they showed day 1 of the Chicago auditions (which ended with...* SPOILER *...then ended with a recap of the two crews and how the vote currently stood. (Assuming the west coast tally was up-to-date and not just a repeat of the eastern broadcast tally, the women had something like 75% of the vote.)


I somehow missed this post last week-- I thought the regular audition part was over when the dance crew stuff started, so I stopped watching then. I didn't realize that only lasted for a few minutes and then they returned to the regular audition process with the Chicago stuff. Thanks! Watching now!


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

From the second audition show: Loved the audition with "Mary Poppins". 

And it looks like Breaksk8 has gotten a lot better since I last saw them (on ABDC) -- good for them. But I still wish Nigel would just put the crews on the show as guests and forget all the silly 'tweet for your favorite' crap. The Bieber segments are just painfully bad.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

murgatroyd said:


> From the second audition show: Loved the audition with "Mary Poppins".


Was she amazing or what?
So feminine and ... _womanly_!


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

Cearbhaill said:


> Was she amazing or what?
> So feminine and ... _womanly_!


I liked it when they sent the guy from KC up to battle with the other poppers. It did seem like he stepped up his game when he had to respond to them.

But when Mary P. came off the stage and then she and Fik-shun were playing off each other, that was something else.

That is why I love the audition shows.


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## Tracy (Mar 12, 2000)

After we watched the KC guy do his audition and then the other 3 came up to battle, Fik-shun went first and he was so much better than the auditioner. He had the moves, the humor and the charisma.


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## Tracy (Mar 12, 2000)

I was also really shocked when they sent the brown-haired girl with self-esteem issues to choreo instead of giving her a ticket.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

Tracy said:


> After we watched the KC guy do his audition and then the other 3 came up to battle, Fik-shun went first and he was so much better than the auditioner. He had the moves, the humor and the charisma.


I would hope Fik-shun would be better than the guy from KC.

But it did seem like the guy from KC danced a little better in the battle than he did during his audition. That was Nigel's excuse for sending him to choreography, anwyay.

In the past, they've been keen on giving dancers an experience if the dancers seemed sincere about their work.



Tracy said:


> I was also really shocked when they sent the brown-haired girl with self-esteem issues to choreo instead of giving her a ticket.


Wasn't she coming back from dancing after having been away for a year and a half? Maybe they expected her to do well there, but wanted her to get some experience.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

They have so many awesome dancers and they seem to just let most of them through without going through all the "we only have 10 spaces left" type of thing. I guess all that's edited out. 

I remember when Idol was first on the auditions shows had tons of really bad singers. I never watched them. They don't seem to mess around with no talent people much on either show any more. :up:


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

It seems like a lot of the spotlighted people you see in the audition rounds never make it to the top 20.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

Okay, who's with me on this? 

I am really getting tired of the editing on the auditions. If someone is really good, I want to see the entire performance. I don't necessarily want to see the judges' reaction shots. If Mary Murphy is yelling out that she really likes something, I can hear it and I know it's her -- I don't need to also SEE it. 

Besides, don't a lot of people have big screen TVs? If they wanted to put in a reaction shot so bad, why not do it as an inset?

There have been times when I really did like certain reaction shots, but over the what, 17 seasons, it probably averages less than 1 per season.

Yes, I ***** about this EVERY season but the 2nd audition show seemed to have especially bad editing.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

zalusky said:


> It seems like a lot of the spotlighted people you see in the audition rounds never make it to the top 20.


I keep thinking I should go back to my tapes/recordings and crank the numbers.


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## cl8855 (Jan 2, 2009)

murgatroyd said:


> Okay, who's with me on this?
> 
> I am really getting tired of the editing on the auditions. If someone is really good, I want to see the entire performance. I don't necessarily want to see the judges' reaction shots. If Mary Murphy is yelling out that she really likes something, I can hear it and I know it's her -- I don't need to also SEE it.
> 
> ...


agree totally, i wish we could see all the full auditions, many of these and the vegas (now LA) solos are better than much of the show, and i'd love to see more/the rest


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## Tracy (Mar 12, 2000)

I actually like seeing the reaction shots, but agree that putting them in the corner of the screen would be much better and would also somewhat confirm that they actually happened when the editing is saying they happened (if they had the judges on the corner throughout the performance.)


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

zalusky said:


> It seems like a lot of the spotlighted people you see in the audition rounds never make it to the top 20.


This has been happening for years. Remember, they already know who the final 40 are ("Not Vegas Anymore Week" was in mid-April, and there's no dancing after that until the top 20 are announced), and have a pretty good idea of who will be in the final 20. They want to show good dancers who won't be continuing this season as much as possible.

I am also under the impression that a number of dancers are considered good enough to be in this year's top 20, but not reaching the top 10, so they will be left out of the 20 and "get another year of work under their belts" so if they come back next year, they have a good chance of winning; they may want to focus on them as well. I have a feeling this was done with Twitch.



murgatroyd said:


> Okay, who's with me on this?
> 
> I am really getting tired of the editing on the auditions. If someone is really good, I want to see the entire performance. I don't necessarily want to see the judges' reaction shots. If Mary Murphy is yelling out that she really likes something, I can hear it and I know it's her -- I don't need to also SEE it.


Is it the editing, or the directing? Keep in mind that Nigel himself directs all of the non-live shows. That may have something to do with it.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

That Don Guy said:


> Is it the editing, or the directing? Keep in mind that Nigel himself directs all of the non-live shows. That may have something to do with it.


I don't know who is responsible, but I wish they would stop.

How can I watch a dancer's transitions, or how they command the stage, or any of the other things the judges are praising the dancers for, if they spend a huge chunk of seconds out of the auditions showing what the judges are doing?

It's especially annoying when I am trying to watch how a dancer fills out a bar of music, and they cut away to the judges before the dancer's hands and arms reach full extension.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

All competition reality shows are doing this- the show is featuring the judges more than the competitors. This years Idol could well have been called "Watch JLo Get The Goosies."

FWIW I think any show that claims to feature dance should show us the entire dance, head to toe, with zero cut aways. Period.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

Cearbhaill said:


> All competition reality shows are doing this- the show is featuring the judges more than the competitors. This years Idol could well have been called "Watch JLo Get The Goosies."


Five or so years ago, the Emmys were seriously considering adding a category for reality show judges. At first, the Academy said that it was too late to add the category for that year, then it was quietly dropped.

Another question about SYTYCD: does Nigel watch the dancers in their initial audition? (One or two days before the "onstage" audition, everybody in those lines you see waiting to get in has to dance, usually something like 10 at a time; "the version I heard was," they try to get 10 dancers of a similar style together and have them dance in that style, and any "leftovers" are grouped together and told to dance freestyle/contemporary.) Sometimes I don't quite get why Dancer A gets a ticket while Dancer B has to go through choreography. Okay, when they're "specialists" in something that usually doesn't involve dancing with a partner, I understand, but there was at least one contemporary dancer in the LA audition that had to go through choreography for some reason, and this is almost always Nigel's call.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

That Don Guy said:


> Another question about SYTYCD: does Nigel watch the dancers in their initial audition? (One or two days before the "onstage" audition, everybody in those lines you see waiting to get in has to dance, usually something like 10 at a time; "the version I heard was," they try to get 10 dancers of a similar style together and have them dance in that style, and any "leftovers" are grouped together and told to dance freestyle/contemporary.)


I'm just guessing, but I doubt it is Nigel himself. Note that on the pre-shows for Project Runway, you see previous contestants like Mondo as part of the screening panel -- you won't see the regular on-air judges at that stage of the evaluations. The same holds true for other competition shows I've seen, like ABDC.

Those panels are probably made up of some of the other production staff / choreographers / alumni connected with the show, people who usually won't be called on to be judges on-air.



That Don Guy said:


> Sometimes I don't quite get why Dancer A gets a ticket while Dancer B has to go through choreography. Okay, when they're "specialists" in something that usually doesn't involve dancing with a partner, I understand, but there was at least one contemporary dancer in the LA audition that had to go through choreography for some reason, and this is almost always Nigel's call.


In the early days of the show, this was spelled out a little more explicitly. The soloists who are really, really good get a ticket, even when it's pretty likely they won't make it onto the main show, because Nigel wanted to show them off to the other dancers at the start of Vegas week. He wants the trained dancers to get a good look at the performance ability of the street dancers, and vice-versa, to make everyone step up their game. Nigel knows that some of those dancers won't make it past the first cut, but the way it used to be, all the dancers still got to see them do their solos. It also gives him a chance to see how dancers might have worked on their solos and improved in between the audition and Vegas week.

The dancers who are sent through to choreography are not as strong in performance quality. They don't have the 'star' quality the producers are looking for. The contemporary dancers who are sent to choreography also may not be as strong in technique as the ones that were given a ticket right away.

I don't worry so much when I can't see why one contemporary dancer gets a ticket and another goes to choreography, because they aren't showing me the entire audition. They're farting around showing me judges' reaction shots, and messing about with camera cuts. So I know I'm missing transitions, nuances, all sorts of stuff about how people use the stage, because the flow of the dance is being smashed up into fragments. It's very possible that some of the subtler points that make the best of the dancers good or the middle-of-the-pack ones go to choreography get lost because of the way the audition is shown to us.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

murgatroyd said:


> I'm just guessing, but I doubt it is Nigel himself. Note that on the pre-shows for Project Runway, you see previous contestants like Mondo as part of the screening panel -- you won't see the regular on-air judges at that stage of the evaluations. The same holds true for other competition shows I've seen, like ABDC.
> 
> Those panels are probably made up of some of the other production staff / choreographers / alumni connected with the show, people who usually won't be called on to be judges on-air.


I realize that Nigel wouldn't make the call as to who advances and who doesn't; Idol works the same way. Ironically, in the early seasons of Idol, it was Nigel's job to decide who made it through to audition in front of Simon / Randy / Paula and who didn't.

What I was wondering was, does Nigel get an "early look" at the dancers to see who he thinks could handle other choreographers' dances / working with a partner and who might not be able to (to make it a little easier to decide the next day who gets a ticket as opposed to who has to go through the choreography round)?

Speaking of which, points off for having Cat mention past finalists' last names. She mentioned the last names of the "All-Stars" who were the LA Day 1 choreographers, but didn't for the ones who were the Chicago choreographers, which is the way the show usually works.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

That Don Guy said:


> What I was wondering was, does Nigel get an "early look" at the dancers to see who he thinks could handle other choreographers' dances / working with a partner and who might not be able to (to make it a little easier to decide the next day who gets a ticket as opposed to who has to go through the choreography round)?


Oh, I see. Pre-judging.

My experience with watching lots of figure skating says it isn't necessary for him to get an early look. He isn't trying to rank the dancers who are in each group. He's simply deciding on a callback.

If I watch a group of 32 skaters, it's usually pretty obvious who belongs in the last warm-up group, and who shouldn't make the cut down to 24.

Where pre-judging comes in handy is when you are evaluating a skater for habitual errors in technique -- e.g. you want to see if a skater under-rotates all the time, or messes up the edge on the entry to the Lutz every time. All of these points come into play when you are trying to rank the skaters. You want to judge on what you see during the competition, and not what you saw on the practice ice, but if one skater has a gorgeous Lutz with a clean entry edge, you also want to make sure they get more credit for their good execution than the skater who habitually flutzes (starts as if doing a flip jump, then switches to the proper entry edge for the Lutz at the very last moment).

The same kind of error in technique on SYTCD will make itself known pretty quickly (I remember one contestant being called out for 'lobster hands'), so I don't know if it's really necessary to get an early look-over, just to divide people between group A (gets a ticket) or B (goes to choreography).

Note also that SYTYCD used to tell us all the numbers (200 dancers to Vegas week, and eventually things got cut down to 40 and then 20), but as the years have gone by, they seem to have become more relaxed about how many dancers they start out with, and how the cut-down happens. Cat tells us the numbers, but IIRC the numbers vary from season to season. They probably have the same goals (it seems necessary, from a production / scheduling standpoint alone) but it seems they wing it a bit more than they used to. Or maybe not, and they've simply changed the way they tell us the Story.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

murgatroyd said:


> Note also that SYTYCD used to tell us all the numbers (200 dancers to Vegas week, and eventually things got cut down to 40 and then 20), but as the years have gone by, they seem to have become more relaxed about how many dancers they start out with, and how the cut-down happens. Cat tells us the numbers, but IIRC the numbers vary from season to season. They probably have the same goals (it seems necessary, from a production / scheduling standpoint alone) but it seems they wing it a bit more than they used to. Or maybe not, and they've simply changed the way they tell us the Story.


You can determine how many people start at the callbacks by adding up all of the numbers Cat says advanced from the regional auditions. I think the cut to a specific 40 is relatively new; I seem to recall reports from a few years ago that something like 34 made it out of Vegas Week one year.

Also remember that SYTYCD is like the WWE; as far as most of the fans are concerned, We Know Only What They Want Us To Know. How many people who watch the show still think that the "Green Mile" was (until this season...well, and the one season where they went to the dancers' homes to tell them) always held in Vegas at the end of Vegas Week, rather than the truth (somewhere in southern California about a month later)?


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

That Don Guy said:


> What I was wondering was, does Nigel get an "early look" at the dancers to see who he thinks ...


Nigel strikes me as such a control freak that I am pretty sure he wouldn't NOT be in on the pre-judging.


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## GoPackGo (Dec 29, 2012)

I saw Cat in person once. She was draw droppingly stunning.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Cainebj said:


> Nigel strikes me as such a control freak that I am pretty sure he wouldn't NOT be in on the pre-judging.


I think they have hinted that the judges do watch rehearsals and prejudging during auditions and during competition.


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## gschrock (Dec 28, 2001)

That Don Guy said:


> Another question about SYTYCD: does Nigel watch the dancers in their initial audition? (One or two days before the "onstage" audition, everybody in those lines you see waiting to get in has to dance, usually something like 10 at a time; "the version I heard was," they try to get 10 dancers of a similar style together and have them dance in that style, and any "leftovers" are grouped together and told to dance freestyle/contemporary.) Sometimes I don't quite get why Dancer A gets a ticket while Dancer B has to go through choreography. Okay, when they're "specialists" in something that usually doesn't involve dancing with a partner, I understand, but there was at least one contemporary dancer in the LA audition that had to go through choreography for some reason, and this is almost always Nigel's call.


I don't know if there's another round before the days of taping (but I don't *think* there is). I went to one of the days of Detroit's taping last year. Basically, they started the day with all the dancers that were auditioning (like I said, I don't know whether there was some sort of pre-screening before this, but I honestly don't think there is, I think the nature of the show keeps the number of applicants down enough that they don't have to). All of the cities judges are there for the initial screening (Twitch was the guest judge on the day I was there). They'd bring the dancers up in groups of ten, play some mind-numbingly repetitive music (I can't remember what it was off the top of my head, but if I never hear it again I won't argue  ). Each dancer gets about 30 seconds or so to show off one at a time. Once they're done, they all kinda move to the middle, Nigel says "Freeze" (and really expects them to freeze in place). From there, the judges discuss for a little bit amongst themselves, have the dancers line up, call some forward so they have two lines, and send one or the other lines home with no feedback. The morning session is pretty much entirely composed of this. I can't remember how many groups there are (I think I commented in one of last season's postings when my memory was a bit fresher), but that first cut is pretty brutal, I'd say out of 10, typically it was 2-4 people going through.

After that, they start having people do the solos. As part of this, they move the family members that are there into a specific set of chairs so they can get family reaction shots too. The dancer does their solo and gets feedback from the judges. One thing I found interesting was that the feedback that they give is actually really pretty significant, and you're only seeing a small portion of it on the show that airs. You might only see a few platitudes on the show when it airs, but they were generally spending a reasonable amount of time providing constructive criticism, stuff that if the dancer pays attention to, they should actually get some benefit from.

I only had the morning session ticket (although they did kinda invite those of us in the morning to come back, but I really had to get to work that day to get in part of a day), so only saw a few solos (none of which went directly to vegas). (The dancer that had the Grandma that did the Macarena that aired last year was one of those that I saw, that bit was absolutely hilarious for those of us in the audience that day.) I'm pretty sure that the girl that won last year auditioned on the other of the two Detroit days, so didn't see her at all.

It's a pretty long day. I can't remember exactly what time they let us in (it was earlier than they actually said they'd let spectators in), and the initial round of cuts ran until about noon. I figured they'd break right then for lunch, but they kept up for a while longer so I got to see that handful of solos. Eventually they did break, and that was when they kicked everyone out of the theater.

Cat was either doing interviews, or was sitting watching some of the early eliminations (she was sitting about 15 feet from me when doing that), it varied as the day went which she was doing.

All in all, I found it to be an exceptionally fascinating process. There's a well-oiled machine behind the scenes that keeps these audition tapings moving along. If you ever get a chance to attend one of the tapings (assuming the show continues on after this year), I'd definitely recommend it. I'd probably suggest shooting for the afternoon segment, because then you'd really get a chance to see a lot of solos.


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## dbranco (Nov 20, 2003)

gschrock said:


> I don't know if there's another round before the days of taping (but I don't *think* there is). I went to one of the days of Detroit's taping last year...


Loved reading your description of a day's taping. thanks for sharing!! :up::up:


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## voripteth (Apr 9, 2003)

It's been several episodes into the new season and I'm worried. Usually by this point we have some favorite dancers who significantly raise the bar from previous seasons. I'm not seeing one this season. Sure there are some very good dancers but no one in the same category as Fikshun, Cyrus or Twitch.

The show feels like it has lost its way with the addition of singers and computer graphics so thick you can barely see the dancers. This is a show about dancers growing into amazing performers. If I wanted to hear singers, I'd tune into a different program!


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## cl8855 (Jan 2, 2009)

I really like both tappers, but I mostly agree, there isnt a crazy good leader right now...


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

Oh, so it's not just me.

This week's show was the first week where I actually thought about voting, or had routines in it where I could pick out routines that were my favorites.

My big peeve continues to be the theatrical lighting and general over-production of the numbers. It's hard to get excited about dancers when I can't see them because the stage is too dark except for the spotlights which shine in my eyes.

The one thing I do like about this season is the guest judge who is the ballerina. She's not afraid to give notes about stuff that needs to be fixed, so you know the feedback isn't going to be one huge slobberfest of love.


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## gschrock (Dec 28, 2001)

They've had singers and other acts in the past, so it's not like that's really new. But I do tend to agree, there doesn't seem to be a stand-out personality in this group of dancers. Hell, I'm lucky if I can remember any of their names.

I do find it interesting that they've added a number of new choreographers this year, so for those that complained about not having anyone new, at least there's that change.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

gschrock said:


> I do find it interesting that they've added a number of new choreographers this year, so for those that complained about not having anyone new, at least there's that change.


Speaking of which, four of the five Emmy nominees for choreography (which will be back on the Creative Arts ceremony after a year on the main broadcast) are from the show: Christopher Scott, Mandy Moore, Travis Wall, and NappyTabs. (Derek Hough of DWTS is the fifth nominee. Remember that they can choose more than one winner.)

One thing I find strange; why is there a double elimination (14 to 10) next week? They have already announced the premiere date for the fall season of Hell's Kitchen on Wednesdays, so even if they end with a final four instead of a final six, there's a one-week hole in Fox's schedule now. (Plus, they have the problem of who to invite as "extras" on the tour, although last season's tour had 14 dancers - the top 10, plus the two Nigel "suggested" they include, plus the two remaining tappers from the 20 (presumably so they could do a three-person tap routine with "runner-up guy" Aaron Turner, which they did do).)


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## jay_man2 (Sep 15, 2003)

I'm fast-forwarding through most of the show this season. Just not emotionally attached to any of the dancers.


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## Zephyr (Sep 16, 2005)

Less trained talent to pick from, so the general tenor of the show demands more distractions to stay on to compensate for the drought. One of the acts last night (possibly the bollywood?) elicited "I'm not familiar with the moves..." comment from the judges. OK, so what are mere mortals supposed to get from that? I recall seeing one dance last week that struck me as incredibly good. I couldn't find anything equivalent last night. The show may have another season left but I think we've gotten to the end of the string, a great loss for quality viewing.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

I've been hugely bored by the choreography the last couple of seasons. Even from the choreographers I usually like, like Mandy Moore.

I did like the piece from Dave Scott last night where Tanisha had the black catsuit with the illusion on the sides. Wardrobe had a lot of fun with that one, then turned around and put the another couple in what looked like raggy rehearsal-room clothing. 

The Bollywood number last night would have been fun if it had been danced properly, but the girl in that couple was just awful. All of her shapes were mushy instead of sharp, and I didn't see the same variety of hand shapes that I've seen in other Bollywood routines. (Hey, I don't know the specific meaning of the hand shapes either, but I can see when people do precise ones and when people don't do them at all.)


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Overall - I would say the choreography has been pretty bad this season.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I was thinking I usually have a couple favorites by now, but it's still early. When do they start dancing with "all stars?" I like that better. 

I liked the one where they were all wounded or hurt or something. The blonde girl with the ugly face did good in that, but that's the first time I remember seeing her. But I don't pay a lot of attention...


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Just haven't been as excited about it this year so far. It seems like the Judges are bored and they are giving a lot of lip service. The two hour shows that all my Reality seems to be going to is not helping. I feel like there's less quality and more quantity. I fear they are trying to kill my favorite Golden Goose.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Can't speak too much about this year as I currently have three episodes waiting to be watched.
_That's_ never happened before- I always kinda sorta watched live then got right to it the next night with husband.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

I'm feeling the same way about this year; it's completely underwhelming. Out of the fourteen (is that right?) people left, I'd be hard-pressed to pick more than two or three out of a lineup; the rest are completely nondescript and interchangeable. There's not a single person I'm excited about.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

I sort of have a couple of guys and one of the girls picked out as possible favorites now, but I forgot to vote afterwards.

Which sort of speaks as to how memorable the show is these days.


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## voripteth (Apr 9, 2003)

Cainebj said:


> Overall - I would say the choreography has been pretty bad this season.


I can't think of a Travis Wall number that I didn't love, though.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

Two things I noticed from the 7/30 episode:

First, they made a considerable number of references to the Top 10, but I didn't hear the word "tour" once. (Speaking of which, Nigel didn't tell any of the four eliminated dancers that he would "suggest" to the tour organizers that they be included. I can see Serge being invited so they can have a ballroom partner for Tanisha.)

Second, I realize that it's some sort of "tradition" to use just the first names of past contestants when they are brought back as All-Stars (with the exception of the time they brought back Chelsie Hightower), but new viewers are going to wonder who most of these dancers are if they don't include at least a season number - and remember that there were two dancers named Jasmine last season; my guess is, they didn't want to have her "stick out" by mentioning her last name, and it took them enough years to get Cat to pronounce "judges" correctly, so they don't want to do this over again by having her say "Jasmine H" (or, as she would say it, "Jasmine Haytch").


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Yeah this season has been kind of meh for some reason. Season 4 has always been my favorite. Just can't seem to connect with the dancers like I did that season.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

I'm watching a little less intently than previous seasons. I'm not sure if it's the dancers fault or just because I'm paying less attention. Part of it is that it feels as if we've seen these dances in previous seasons. Obviously we haven't seen the exact choreography but similar stuff. Maybe at top 10, they'll start wowing us with imaginative routines. 

I'll likely start voting when it gets to the top 10. There are only a few standouts for me.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

Is it just me, or are there fewer choreographers in a week than there used to be?

I remember way back when, there would be a lot of numbers from different choreographers, and then there would be one choreographer (or team) that did two routines, and for the choreographer who did two routines in a week, often one would seem distinctly weaker than the other. 

Now we have what, Mandy Moore and Travis doing numbers for the show AND doing the group numbers. This week seemed awfully contemporary-heavy to me. 

Now we're at the point where they call out the names of some people who used to make me say "oh boy, another number from (name)" and now I groan and say "oh, no, not another number from (name)". To me that's a sign they don't have enough choreographers on tap. 

The stupid theatrical lighting that makes the dancers invisible can go away, too.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

murgatroyd said:


> Is it just me, or are there fewer choreographers in a week than there used to be?


No you are definitely correct.
I think they are trying to make Travis a celebrity choreographer before the show gets canned.
And they have also been some other past contestants as choreographers: mostly on the ballroom side - the two - are they russians? sasha and pasha i'm forgetting their names LOL and Lacey Schimmer (which I am sure I am spelling wrong).

Plus - the great choreographers can take ages to perfect a new work - these folks doing 2 or 3 routines a week might be why we are feeling the choreography stinks this year.


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## gschrock (Dec 28, 2001)

Never in my life would I have expected to see a Rob Zombie song being used for a ballroom dance. I had to do a double-take over that one.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

This week was a lot better with the all-star partners and some choreographers who haven't been around this season.


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## cl8855 (Jan 2, 2009)

Cainebj said:


> This week was a lot better with the all-star partners and some choreographers who haven't been around this season.


i was thinking this too, some excellent performances


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

yes but there were also some WTH moments
- is it me or do they bring Brandon in every year to do some super-paced discoesque number where they are moving so fast they are going to hurt themselves
- Travis' big ballet contemporary was a big bust - he was making it sound like it was ground breaking and then - not so much
- and as usual - they judges and everyone make a big deal out of a routine that is merely so what - in this case Sonya's was pretty nothing special

I really liked the opening number and was happy to see NappyTabs back.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

Cainebj said:


> - is it me or do they bring Brandon in every year to do some super-paced discoesque number where they are moving so fast they are going to hurt themselves


Yeah, it's stupid. My favorite number of Brandon's is still the cha-cha routine they did, which showed real finesse.



Cainebj said:


> - Travis' big ballet contemporary was a big bust - he was making it sound like it was ground breaking and then - not so much


I could do without the whole 'fusion cuisine' motif.



Cainebj said:


> - and as usual - they judges and everyone make a big deal out of a routine that is merely so what - in this case Sonya's was pretty nothing special
> 
> I really liked the opening number and was happy to see NappyTabs back.


I'm not a huge fan of NappyTabs. Not a hater, either; it's just that I seem to like their stuff about half of the time.

But I was really glad to see them back -- it seemed like a huge breath of fresh air, which says something about how stale some of the other choreography has gotten.

Was the Argentine Tango this week? I would have liked that, too, if I had been able to see it. Still not happy with the theatrical lighting and moving camera POV and stuff that seems to be constantly making flares in the cameras.

Really wish they would get away from the over-production. Less is more.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

kinda off topic but maybe not since she is on this week's show

Allison Holker is going to be a pro-dancer on the upcoming season of Dancing with the Stars. I love her so I am happy about that, but I never thought of her as a ballroom dancer so that's kinda weird.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

Oh, no. I love Allison, but not if it means that DwtS is going to be infested with more contemporary dance.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

murgatroyd said:


> Oh, no. I love Allison, but not if it means that DwtS is going to be infested with more contemporary dance.


That won't happen - it's hard enough teaching the celebrities ballroom moves; do you honestly think you can teach any of them enough contemporary dance in such a short time period that they wouldn't be dangers to themselves and their partners, much less not making fools of themselves? (And even that assumes that the professionals besides Allison have done any serious contemporary work recently, or that they would limit the contemporary routines to Allison and her partner.)


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

murgatroyd said:


> Oh, no. I love Allison, but not if it means that DwtS is going to be infested with more contemporary dance.


Are we having a "Strictly Ballroom" moment!


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

That Don Guy said:


> That won't happen


They've already done it:


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Yeah they added contemporary routines a couple of seasons ago - 

I have always assumed Holker's genre was contemporary - I am sure on SYTYCD she did some ballroom but...


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

Cainebj said:


> Yeah they added contemporary routines a couple of seasons ago


I'm surprised they could find celebrities that could handle contemporary.

I have a feeling somebody thinks "contemporary = choreography Emmys," especially since SYTYCD got four of the five choreography nominations this year (and keep in mind. those were from the 2013 season).


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

I was enjoying the show, and thinking that finally we were getting some good routines for a change, and then ...

... they brought out Control Freakz, the guest crew.

What just happened?

It's like somebody hit a 'clear everything and delete on my brain'. Like, did anybody else dance on the show?

Okay, I'm biased, because I really like the music -- La Valse D'amélie [Orchestra Version] from the soundtrack to Amélie -- but the choreography and performance was magnificent.

There's the long smooth sweeping lines of the music, and the sparkly staccato of the percussion, and the dancers, via their popping, were expressing both aspects of the music at the same time.

It was just superb, and the only thing I can say against it is that I wished it were longer. (The timing on my soundtrack CD says that track is just 2 minutes even.)

I ran it back immediately and I've watched it two times more.

Just breathtaking.

Here's the link to the official clip on the SYTYCD YouTube channel.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Anyone here know if this will be back next summer? Usually by now Nigel says its coming back. I know the ratings are pretty crummy this season.


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## jay_man2 (Sep 15, 2003)

Kamakzie said:


> Anyone here know if this will be back next summer? Usually by now Nigel says its coming back. I know the ratings are pretty crummy this season.


http://renewcanceltv.com/think-can-dance-season-12-fox-hope-renew-end-year/

Not yet renewed.


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## alpacaboy (Oct 29, 2004)

That Don Guy said:


> I'm surprised they could find celebrities that could handle contemporary.
> 
> I have a feeling somebody thinks "contemporary = choreography Emmys," especially since SYTYCD got four of the five choreography nominations this year (and keep in mind. those were from the 2013 season).


I think last season Candace Cameron had a contemporary number pretty early on and actually did pretty well, and she had little to no dance experience going in.

Some of the celebs might not have the flexibility to get a nice line going, but now that I think about it, I don't know if Contemporary would be all that different from the other dances for the celebs. I mean it's not like it's real social lead/follow. It's all "learn this choreography in 1 week, and I'll talk you through it as we perform."


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

NappyTabs (Napoleon and Tabitha Dumo) won this year's Emmy for Choreography. Note that this is for last season, as the Emmy "year" runs from June 1, 2013 to May 31, 2014.

And somebody needs to explain to Nigel how the Emmys work. During the Creative Arts ceremony, he tweeted that SYTYCD won an Emmy for costume design - apparently unaware that this category is one of two categories where they announce the winners two weeks in advance (since there are no nominees - every entry is given its own "yes or no" vote - and they have to tell the winners in advance so they can be at the ceremony to pick up their Emmys and give their acceptance speeches). This could explain why he never mentioned the win after it was announced.

As for whether or not the show will be back next season: I don't see why not - I don't think Fox has anything to show in its place that would get better ratings. Besides - it would give Cat another shot at an Emmy; she lost this year to Jane Lynch (for hosting _Hollywood Game Night_).


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Utopia? I don't know if it'll have any effect, but it's airing multiple times a week, supposedly for a year so it should be on next summer. I'm sure they could find room for both if they wanted, but if they cancel SYTYCD, they'll still have at least one show on in the summer.


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## gschrock (Dec 28, 2001)

I saw an article recently that basically said the guy in charge at FOX of making the decision would like to have it back if they can make it work. He supposedly likes the show, and would have a hard time imagining it not being back. Of course, that's what you'd expect them to say, so expect a cancellation notice any time now .

Personally I think as long as they can make the financial numbers work it'll be back. Ratings are somewhat down this year, but as far as I know they're still respectable. It's a solid show for the summer.

(Interesting side note. Had a newspaper article here that talked about what acts actually sold out the main hall in our local performing venue here on campus, which supposedly seats about 2500 or so, making it "large" (in their words) in comparison to a broadway theater. Last season for the theater, there were 9 shows that sold out. One of those was the SYTYCD tour, which wasn't even on the original advertising for the season (late announcement), and apparently sold out very quickly. (No idea if the fact that last year's female winner was from Detroit, and this was the closest stop, played into that or not). And it was a fairly pricey ticket as I recall (I don't remember what the pricing was, but it was one reason I didn't go myself, as I recall it was priced as high if not higher than the major broadway acts coming in).)


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## jay_man2 (Sep 15, 2003)

I've yet to watch last week's show. In previous seasons that never happened.


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## HIHZia (Nov 3, 2004)

murgatroyd said:


> I was enjoying the show, and thinking that finally we were getting some good routines for a change, and then ...
> 
> ... they brought out Control Freakz, the guest crew.
> 
> ...


Huh, I had the opposite reaction. I didn't care for it at all and thought the performance looked amateurish and sloppy.


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## ebockelman (Jul 12, 2001)

I have a really hard time with the camera work on this show.

You would have thought in this many seasons they could have a very simple rule in place: NEVER TAKE THE CAMERA OFF THE FEET OF A TAPPER OR EN POINTE BALLERINA!


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Maybe I'm completely off base, but does Tyce Diorio come off as a cocky, arrogant jerk to anyone else?


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## Tracy (Mar 12, 2000)

Robert! Finally!


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## walkerism (Aug 16, 2001)

Kamakzie said:


> Maybe I'm completely off base, but does Tyce Diorio come off as a cocky, arrogant jerk to anyone else?


+1


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

Kamakzie said:


> Maybe I'm completely off base, but does Tyce Diorio come off as a cocky, arrogant jerk to anyone else?


Absolutely. If you ever happen to watch 'Every Little Step,' in which he's one of many hopeful auditioners for a role in a Broadway revival of A Chorus Line, you'll see that he's even worse than he seems on SYTYCD. He's a horrible person.

Edited to correct the autocorrect. 'Auditioners,' not 'auctioneers.'


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Kamakzie said:


> Maybe I'm completely off base, but does Tyce Diorio come off as a cocky, arrogant jerk to anyone else?


Self-indulgent and full of himself. 
And his choreography is generally mediocre.


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## cl8855 (Jan 2, 2009)

David Platt said:


> Absolutely. If you ever happen to watch 'Every Little a Step,' in which he's one of many hopeful auctioneers for a role in a Broadway revival of A Chorus Line, you'll see that he's even worse than he seems on SYTYCD. He's a horrible person.


this + 10000

I like valerie a lot, but she seemed the weakest tonight to me...

RIcky should prob win


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Over the weekend I began hearing that ratings have been so low that there is a serious threat of cancellation after this season.

As fans, let's do what we can to try and prevent that and hashtag away on Twitter!


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

jlb said:


> Over the weekend I began hearing that ratings have been so low that there is a serious threat of cancellation after this season.


The numbers aren't that bad, especially considering it's up against Big Brother _and_ America's Got Talent.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the show moved to a different night next season. The problem is, which one? Tuesday is still up against AGT; Thursday is still up against BB; the show seems to depend on the 18-49 demographic, so Friday is not a good idea; Saturday is out of the question because of baseball, unless Fox moves it to Fox Sports 1 (which I doubt), and even then, the same demographic problem with Fridays applies; Sunday is also pretty much out of the question as Fox isn't going to move The Simpsons (even in repeats) out of the 8:00 slot. That leaves Monday, but I think Fox wants to keep MasterChef there.

There's always Plan B: move the show to FXX.

I think the real problem is, the show seems to be targeted at people who are "dance fans" to the point where they probably already know all of the finalists even before the season starts, although if it really was that way, chances are they would all write in to ask that the show get rid of the viewer vote and have choreographers decide "America's *best* dancer". Who else is going to pay decent money to see them on tour?


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

For me, the problem is that none of the contestants this year have any sort of personality. When we are down to six left and I still don't know their names, that's a problem.
Also, Mary gushing over mediocre performances trying to make a "moment" happen is insulting to me. It's as if she was there purely to put lipstick on pigs.

I've all but quit watching- I think I have four episodes to view on my DVR.
Normally I have it on in the background and watch it the next night, but two weeks ago the hideous music ticked me off so badly I changed the channel and this last week I didn't even bother to have it on while it recorded.
I'll probably just watch the finale.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

I just realized something...

The Season 11 tour starts in early October, and promises that the winner will be in it. What happens when the show starts and there's an announcement:
_"Ladies and gentlemen, we know we promised the Top 10 dancers would be performing, but unfortunately, the winner has a commitment to perform in _On the Town_ on Broadway tonight...er, where is half of the audience going?...anyway, we have invited the four dancers eliminated from the Top 14 to-"_
(voice from the back) _"The box office is closed, and they're not giving refunds!"_
(voice from the audience) _"Storm the stage!"_


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Cearbhaill said:


> For me, the problem is that none of the contestants this year have any sort of personality. When we are down to six left and I still don't know their names, that's a problem.
> Also, Mary gushing over mediocre performances trying to make a "moment" happen is insulting to me. It's as if she was there purely to put lipstick on pigs.
> 
> I've all but quit watching- I think I have four episodes to view on my DVR.
> ...


I have 5 of them in the folder myself... About 10 hours worth... Personally, I Can't STAND the new trend in reality shows to kill the golden goose by making the shows 2 hours long. My wife and I only have about 2 hours to watch TV together and it irks me that these shows want to monopolize my entire evening. We've tried splitting them into to two one hour chunks, but that just means they sit in the folders even longer and get older and older...

It's just greed pure and simple, and it's a huge part of why I'm not enjoying or keeping up on what used to be, my favorite shows. Too much of a time commitment and too much filler. :down:


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

bareyb said:


> Personally, I Can't STAND the new trend in reality shows to kill the golden goose by making the shows 2 hours long. My wife and I only have about 2 hours to watch TV together and it irks me that these shows want to monopolize my entire evening. We've tried splitting them into to two one hour chunks, but that just means they sit in the folders even longer and get older and older...


"New" trend? What performance-based reality shows (SYTYCD, AGT, Idol, X Factor, DWTS) _haven't_ started their live shows with 2-hour shows every season? The only way you could get them down to one hour is if you got rid of the judges, and the networks are under the impression that a considerable number of people watch these shows primarily to see what the judges do.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

That Don Guy said:


> "New" trend? What performance-based reality shows (SYTYCD, AGT, Idol, X Factor, DWTS) _haven't_ started their live shows with 2-hour shows every season? The only way you could get them down to one hour is if you got rid of the judges, and the networks are under the impression that a considerable number of people watch these shows primarily to see what the judges do.


Worse yet they seem to want to add more judges theses days which adds to the blather and reduces times for the performances.

If it weren't for them being cheap to produce relative to scripted shows I think their time would have passed.


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## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

I think Ricky and Jessica are spectacular dancers.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

That Don Guy said:


> "New" trend? What performance-based reality shows (SYTYCD, AGT, Idol, X Factor, DWTS) _haven't_ started their live shows with 2-hour shows every season? The only way you could get them down to one hour is if you got rid of the judges, and the networks are under the impression that a considerable number of people watch these shows primarily to see what the judges do.


I don't recall _everything_ being two hours until a couple of seasons ago. There may have been one or two 2 hour shows, but not ALL of them. Either that or they were so much more entertaining that I didn't notice how long they were.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

The big guys always had 2 hour performance shows and in some cases 1 hour results shows. Now that ratings are dropping they dumped the results shows.

Survivor, Amazing Race were able to be edited into a 1 hour block and are a different animal entirely.
You can bet that the cooking competitions would have gone two hour if they had the ratings.


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## tem (Oct 6, 2003)

yay for Ricky !

For some reason it went over our heads that there was only 1 winner this year vs. 2 the last 2 seasons, even as they described the prize package. Ricky and Valerie seemed like locks for the top 2 anyhow.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

I missed this season in its entirety (some seasons I watch, some I don't), but my wife and daughter watched and enjoyed it, and so a few months ago I got us all tickets for the tour - the show is tomorrow night. I'm looking forward to it.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

I didn't notice a thread, but SYTYCD was recently picked up for another season with a format twist. Street dancers vs stage dancers.

http://variety.com/2014/tv/news/sytycd-renewed-season-12-1201358766/


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

I'm happy it was renewed albeit the twist sounds kinda lame.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Yeah, gimmicks rarely add anything.
Just get some good dancing people with personalities- last season I barely learned everyone's name, they were all so bland.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

I want the special edition version SYTYCD where the pros from Dancing with the Stars are the contestants. 

Mandy Moore is choreographing so many group number for DwtS, they might as well have a fusion challenge. 

Let Derek Hough have to learn someone else's sadistic choreography for a change.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

I just read another tidbit that Mary Murphy might be stepping down and they might bring in Paula Abdul...


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

murgatroyd said:


> I want the special edition version SYTYCD where the pros from Dancing with the Stars are the contestants.
> 
> Mandy Moore is choreographing so many group number for DwtS, they might as well have a fusion challenge.
> 
> Let Derek Hough have to learn someone else's sadistic choreography for a change.


Oh my, that _would_ be awesome. :up:


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## tem (Oct 6, 2003)

Kamakzie said:


> I just read another tidbit that Mary Murphy might be stepping down and they might bring in Paula Abdul...


As much as I don't especially like MM, this would bring a serious *ugh* from me.

To be honest, I think SYTYCT has run its course and should be humanely put down after this season. Project Runway isn't too far behind.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

tem said:


> To be honest, I think SYTYCT has run its course and should be humanely put down after this season. Project Runway isn't too far behind.


I could say the same for just about all the competition based "reality" shows like DWTS, Idol, The Voice, Inkmaster etc.
It was a phase in television and IMO their expiration date is here.

In fact the only show of this type that I still enjoy is Face Off and that is because the showrunners have made the incredibly wise decision to skip 100% of the drama not directly involved in the actual competition.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

Cearbhaill said:


> I could say the same for just about all the competition based "reality" shows like DWTS, Idol, The Voice, Inkmaster etc.
> It was a phase in television and IMO their expiration date is here.
> 
> In fact the only show of this type that I still enjoy is Face Off and that is because the showrunners have made the incredibly wise decision to skip 100% of the drama not directly involved in the actual competition.


The show I'm enjoying a lot right now is Master Chef Junior. It probably helps that I never watch the original Master Chef for grown-ups and the judges aren't mean.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

murgatroyd said:


> The show I'm enjoying a lot right now is Master Chef Junior.


:up::up:

Chef Ramsay sure is a nice guy when around the kids.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

I should have remembered Master Chef Junior.
I enjoy it and I loathe children.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

We're watching it too. Some of those kids are amazing!


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