# Any way to use an HD Antenna with a Premiere 4?



## janineanne (Dec 22, 2014)

I have a TiVo Premiere 4, which doesn't have a built-in ATSC tuner. We just cancelled cable and I've hooked up an HD antenna to get local channels. I've been trying to figure out if there's any sort of external box which can translated the ATSC signal to the MoCA signal the TiVo expects. Not only can I not find any product that says it can do this, I can't even find anyone else talking about it. Is this really that crazy of an idea?


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Only the Premiere 2 tuner models, the earlier Series 3 dual tuner models, an the 4 tuner Roamio can use OTA.

Premiere 4/XL4 is for cable only and Roamio Plus/Pro can only use digital cable.


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## janineanne (Dec 22, 2014)

Yes, I know. What I'm looking for is an external box that would convert the signal from the antenna to something that would look like digital cable to the TiVo. Maybe that's not possible, or would be so expensive that I'm better off buying a new TiVo. But I wanted to check with the experts here to find out if such a thing exists.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

janineanne said:


> Yes, I know. What I'm looking for is an external box that would convert the signal from the antenna to something that would look like digital cable to the TiVo. Maybe that's not possible, or would be so expensive that I'm better off buying a new TiVo. But I wanted to check with the experts here to find out if such a thing exists.


New TiVo. Or Google ATSC to Cable and sort through all the results, none of which will do any good.


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## PCurry57 (Feb 27, 2012)

janineanne said:


> I have a TiVo Premiere 4, which doesn't have a built-in ATSC tuner. We just cancelled cable and I've hooked up an HD antenna to get local channels. I've been trying to figure out if there's any sort of external box which can translated the ATSC signal to the MoCA signal the TiVo expects. Not only can I not find any product that says it can do this, I can't even find anyone else talking about it. Is this really that crazy of an idea?


Yes, this is a really crazy idea. The TiVo isn't looking for a moca signal to tune channels. Moca had nothing to do with tv signals, it's data period. A different wiresystem to cat 5/6. Much like the old style Ethernet coax, arcnet also used coax other token ring networks used a wide variety of wire systems from ibm type 2 to twisted pairs not unlike speaker wire.

Moca is simply data over coax that coexsist with cable tv.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

ThAbtO said:


> Premiere 4/XL4 is for cable only and Roamio Plus/Pro can only use digital cable.


Premiere 4/XL4 is also *digital* cable only.


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## MeInDallas (Jul 31, 2011)

You can find a buttload of used 2 tuner Premieres that do OTA, with no subscriptions on Ebay for dirt cheap right now, if you wanna go that route. Looking thru the completed auctions they are going for around $20-$30 some with free shipping. The lifetimed ones seem to be going for between $200-$250.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MeInDallas said:


> You can find a buttload of used 2 tuner Premieres that do OTA, with no subscriptions on Ebay for dirt cheap right now, if you wanna go that route. Looking thru the completed auctions they are going for around $20-$30 some with free shipping. The lifetimed ones seem to be going for between $200-$250.


But you might get lucky and get an unsubbed Premiere on which you can get $99 Lifetime.

Best hope of that is finding someone with one first subbed at least 3 years ago and not yet cancelled and getting them to get the deal and reimbursing them the hundred bucks on top of purchase price.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

janineanne said:


> I have a TiVo Premiere 4, which doesn't have a built-in ATSC tuner. We just cancelled cable and I've hooked up an HD antenna to get local channels. I've been trying to figure out if there's any sort of external box which can translated the ATSC signal to the MoCA signal the TiVo expects. Not only can I not find any product that says it can do this, I can't even find anyone else talking about it. Is this really that crazy of an idea?


The 4 tuner TiVo expects a QAM signal, not MoCa. MoCa is a networking thing.

The answer to your question is no. There is no box that will convert an ATSC signal to a QAM signal that the TiVo can use.

FYI you can get a Roamio OTA at BestBuy for $50 plus $15/mo for service. If you're already paying monthly for your current TiVo then this wont be any different and you can probably sell the Premier 4 for enough to cover the cost of the Roamio.


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## ADent (Jan 7, 2000)

You would be better off getting a new Roamio - if the Premiere 4 does not have lifetime. 

If it has lifetime then you would want to swap with someone or sell it.


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## phone man (Nov 4, 2011)

You'll need an OTA capable Tivo as others have mentioned. And, congrats on getting rid of cable TV. $100 a month not thrown away is a great thing.


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## Pacomartin (Jun 11, 2013)

MeInDallas said:


> You can find a buttload of used 2 tuner Premieres that do OTA, with no subscriptions on Ebay for dirt cheap right now, if you wanna go that route. Looking thru the completed auctions they are going for around $20-$30 some with free shipping. The lifetimed ones seem to be going for between $200-$250.


The original units 2-tuner premiers were manufactured close to 5 years ago (shipping for 4.8 year). I wonder if TiVo will extend lifetime service on older units for less than $500? I see some posts indicating that some people have bought units on e-bay with lifetime service and they were gypped.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Yes, you can get MSD, but not sure if that applies with a RCN box. You can get cheap lifetime sometimes as well, depending upon the circumstances. If the used box was under service, you can often get 199 offered, and down to 99 if the box was under service for three years. YMMV


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Pacomartin said:


> The original units 2-tuner premiers were manufactured close to 5 years ago (shipping for 4.8 year). I wonder if TiVo will extend lifetime service on older units for less than $500? I see some posts indicating that some people have bought units on e-bay with lifetime service and they were gypped.


Lifetime follows the box and works forever. People are currently getting offered $99 lifetime on Premiere units when they call to cancel monthly service, which is why you can find them so cheap on eBay. Someone pays $99 for lifetime and then turns around and sells the unit for $200-$300.


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## drcos (Jul 20, 2001)

> You would be better off getting a new Roamio


If you only want antenna OR cable, not both. If you want both in the same TiVo, you need the 2 tuner Premiere.


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## John Hafer (Dec 21, 2001)

I guess I am one of the few people who actually does do both. I have a TiVo Premiere (2 Tuner) and have it setup for BOTH OTA digital antenna and Comcast digital cable. It is nice in that both guides are integrated into one. All of or local OTA stations list first in the guide since they have low numbers.

When I found out the new Roamio can not tune BOTH OTA and cable, I decided to stay with my Premiere and I love it.


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## Pacomartin (Jun 11, 2013)

John Hafer said:


> When I found out the new Roamio can not tune BOTH OTA and cable, I decided to stay with my Premiere and I love it.


Where is the value added? Aren't all the OTA stations on cable anyway?

I understand the potential value. If these fights between cable companies and broadcast networks continue, you may have to go two sources. But so far it hasn't happened for long periods of time, and has been limited in scope.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

OTA is my first choice for recording/watching broadcast TV because the pure and crisp picture quality is better than on a compressed cable signal. It's even more noticeable on "480p" sub channels than it is on the HD channels.


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## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

Pacomartin said:


> Where is the value added? Aren't all the OTA stations on cable anyway?


usually the main ABC, CBS and such are on cable or dish, but most of the dash channels ( 9-2, 9-3 ) aren't on cable, and many of the odd broadcasters aren't either. Such as ION and MyTV.


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## John Hafer (Dec 21, 2001)

Pacomartin said:


> Where is the value added? Aren't all the OTA stations on cable anyway?


Actually, not all and when they do, these are usually up in the 800s' channels. I like to have all our local OTA channels where they should be, i.e., ch. 5.1, 5.2, 5.3, etc. which show up first in the guides. Also, when new sub-channels are added, it can take a month or more to add them to Comcast. Even then, not all sub-channels are always added.

Finally, as was also mentioned, I feel that direct OTA picture quality can be better than their compressed cable counterparts.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

"Channel numbers where they should be."

That's funny, because I have moved a few times since I started using TiVo, and I have no idea what any channel number is any more. That's what happens when you stop watching live TV. I think the only channels I sort of know is a couple cable news channels, which would be the only thing I need to watch as it happens. By "sort of" I mean I think they are in the low 700's. LOL


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

That's so true. It was hard, but I taught my mother not to say channel 2 but to say CBS. She would call me up and ask me to "tape" her soap sometimes. Now, if only I could get her to select 502 and not 2. Why SD is still being sent escapes me.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

Pacomartin said:


> Where is the value added? Aren't all the OTA stations on cable anyway?


I had my TiVoHD hooked up to antenna and cable. There are channels I received OTA that I do not get with Comcast. In addition, while I have had my cable go out, my OTA never did, so at the very least I could get local channels.


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## drcos (Jul 20, 2001)

> Where is the value added? Aren't all the OTA stations on cable anyway?


Same deal, Ft. Myers stations aren't on cable in Venice. ABC from antenna is 5.1, from cable not. And different NFL games on Ft Myers stations vs Tampa...
So the Premiere is the way to go for me.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Arcady said:


> "Channel numbers where they should be."
> 
> That's funny, because I have moved a few times since I started using TiVo, and I have no idea what any channel number is any more. That's what happens when you stop watching live TV. I think the only channels I sort of know is a couple cable news channels, which would be the only thing I need to watch as it happens. By "sort of" I mean I think they are in the low 700's. LOL


Whether you know where they are or not is irrelevant. TiVo needs them to be mapped properly to line up the guide data with the channel. If all you want to do is watch live TV or setup manual recordings akin to a VCR then it doesn't matter, but if you want to use any of the automatic recording features of the TiVo or it's guide then you need a CableCARD so the TiVo can get a map.

That being said some people have successfully bought them on eBay. As long as you buy the right brand then it will still get the map even if it's not linked to your account. That's enough to make the unencrypted channels work. Although more and more cable companies are starting to encrypt everything.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> Whether you know where they are or not is irrelevant. TiVo needs them to be mapped properly to line up the guide data with the channel. If all you want to do is watch live TV or setup manual recordings akin to a VCR then it doesn't matter, but if you want to use any of the automatic recording features of the TiVo or it's guide then you need a CableCARD so the TiVo can get a map.
> 
> That being said some people have successfully bought them on eBay. As long as you buy the right brand then it will still get the map even if it's not linked to your account. That's enough to make the unencrypted channels work. Although more and more cable companies are starting to encrypt everything.


I know all of this. Nothing in my post questioned any of this. Are you quoting the right person?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

No I was simply pointing out that even if you don't care where the channels are (I don't either) the TiVo still needs them to be "where they should be" so it can properly assign the data. I quoted you, but I was really just elaborating on the whole idea, not picking on you specifically or trying to correct you in anyway.


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## mp11 (Jan 29, 2008)

ThAbtO said:


> Only the Premiere 2 tuner models, the earlier Series 3 dual tuner models, an the 4 tuner Roamio can use OTA.
> 
> Premiere 4/XL4 is for cable only and Roamio Plus/Pro can only use digital cable.


So a new Romio supports OTA?


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

mp11 said:


> So a new Romio supports OTA?


The 4-Tuner Roamio Basic and of course OTA do. The 6-tuner Plus and Pro do not.


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## cardgone (Nov 22, 2003)

READ CAREFULLY BEOFRE REPLYING.

I have Tivo premiere series 4 and 4 XL tuners here. I just cut the chord but kept basic cable channels 2-99 as it is free with my internet plan. I have taken the Premiere XL box and gone through he entire setup again saying I don't plan to use an M-card, and then it gives me the choice between antenna, cable or both. I picked both. This seem to find all the stations from 2-99 with a few duplicate numbers, (i.e. channel 7 twice but both with different programming). 

However I do not seem to get any HD channels which I know come through this feed also, because when I hook the same cable to my HDTV directly, I get channels like 45-1, 45-2, 80-64, and all are HD channels on the Smarttv that it can pick up from the same cable line. 

Is there anyway to get Tivo to recognize those and will my results be any different if I get the new roamio OTA box?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

cardgone said:


> READ CAREFULLY BEOFRE REPLYING.
> 
> However I do not seem to get any HD channels which I know come through this feed also, because when I hook the same cable to my HDTV directly, I get channels like 45-1, 45-2, 80-64, and all are HD channels on the Smarttv that it can pick up from the same cable line.
> 
> Is there anyway to get Tivo to recognize those and will my results be any different if I get the new roamio OTA box?


Have you tried to enter the channels manually? The "-" key is the ->| key. I guess you have checked the channel list to verify they are missing.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

cardgone said:


> READ CAREFULLY BEOFRE REPLYING.
> 
> I have Tivo premiere series 4 and 4 XL tuners here. I just cut the chord but kept basic cable channels 2-99 as it is free with my internet plan. I have taken the Premiere XL box and gone through he entire setup again saying I don't plan to use an M-card, and then it gives me the choice between antenna, cable or both. I picked both. This seem to find all the stations from 2-99 with a few duplicate numbers, (i.e. channel 7 twice but both with different programming).
> 
> ...


I read this carefully several times and I am totally confused. Do you have an antenna connected to either the TV or the Premiere?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

lpwcomp said:


> I read this carefully several times and I am totally confused. Do you have an antenna connected to either the TV or the Premiere?


I'm not going to get into the morals here, but I was interested if he has clear QAM. The TV says he does. On a Premiere without a cable card a scan does find those channels but does not enable them. They require manual enabling. I don't know why, but it's how my Premiere works. After manual activation they appear in the guide also. However, with every restart there will be a message to redo the guided setup, which can be ignored. I still get 5 analog channels with color bars and one clear QAM channel. I have one Premiere and one Roamio with cable cards and do pay for the service. There is actually no reason the poster has to say he has OTA, since past ch 13 the frequencies are different anyhow. The guide will be useless.

My reading indicates he does not have an antenna.


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## telemark (Nov 12, 2013)

cardgone must have a Clear QAM feed with partial map.

The channels 2-99 that are working would have come from the Tivo guided setup download.

The missing channels should be tunable AFTER a channel scan. The channel numbers will still be wrong, like how JoeKustra described, because it would default to sub-channels. I could be wrong on this point as there's a mechanism to fix the display channel numbers by embedding the data in the channel.

You won't be able to record intelligently until you have a more complete map or everything numbered correctly. The easiest way people have had any success with is buying an eBay CableCard.

The hardest way people had any success with is modifying the SQL tables on the drive. Not recommended.

cardgone:
Could you post your Tivo model numbers (on the back plate) and ZipCode / CableCo?
This topic comes up a lot and there's a lot of disagreement whether it's even possible.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

I've done a channel scan on my Premiere without a cable card. It puts every channel in the channel list. That's over 600 for my feed. They all, except for the analog, have an asterisk after them. I know, from my TV, only one is valid. So I enable it and it shows in my guide. I can watch it and record it (manual) if desired. I also know it's channel 100 in my cable card units by checking the frequency.

When I get promo weekend of HBO, MAX, etc., I can scan the TV and get those channels too. I don't, since all I learn from the "free" weekend is not to buy premium channels. It's not worth it to me.


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