# Remove Commercials?



## conehead65 (Feb 26, 2009)

Can anyone tell me, does Tivo series 2 remove commercials automatically?


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

conehead65 said:


> Can anyone tell me, does Tivo series 2 remove commercials automatically?


no


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

dianebrat said:


> no


I think you meant to say:

No.


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## conehead65 (Feb 26, 2009)

Waaa


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

But it does make it very easy to skip commercials...


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## reh523 (Feb 28, 2006)

The one thing Media Center does better than Tivo

DVRMSToolbox


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

ReplayTV famously added an automatic commercial skip feature, which brought down law suits on them from every major network. The cost of defending themselves from these lawsuits drove their parent company, SonicBlue, into receivership. The first thing that the company which bought ReplayTV from SonicBlue did was remove the feature .


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## conehead65 (Feb 26, 2009)

Amazing stuffs guys !!! 
Media Center with extras sounds cool !!!
There is a Replay TV box for sale locally, I wonder if the capabilities are in the box or with the service? Do you need a service like with Tivo?


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

streambaby (HME application for streaming video to series 3 Tivos) has capability to skip commercials while playing back a video file. You simply have to supply an accompanying cut file (a .edl file generated manually or with help from comskip).

Of course if you go through all the trouble to generate a proper cut file you may as well edit the video file and remove the commercials from the video file in the 1st place.

ReplayTV 500x series or 4xxx series skip commercials automatically. You can probably find lifetime service units pretty cheaply these days, but who wants to be stuck with SD video these days... I still have a couple of units but use them only for desperate backup purposes and for their ability to automatically find and record all season & series premieres, something that sadly Tivo to this day has not added to it's standalone units.


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## jkalnin (Jan 8, 2003)

While it would be a nice feature, with 30 second skip and triple speed FF it is really not necessary. Unless your so busy that 2 seconds it takes to skip through commercials is unbearable.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

jkalnin said:


> While it would be a nice feature, with 30 second skip and triple speed FF it is really not necessary. Unless your so busy that 2 seconds it takes to skip through commercials is unbearable.


...or you are a 5 year old like my daughter whom I would prefer didn't see dozens of commercials everytime she watches a show. She hasn't mastered 3X FF or 30 sec skip yet, so an auto skip commercials feature would be really cool.


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## conehead65 (Feb 26, 2009)

Thanks Guys, 
I thought it would be good for disc space to omit 18 minutes of advertisements in every hour. Darn advertisements, lol


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## Revolutionary (Dec 1, 2004)

+1 for dvrmstoolbox

I'm using it to replace Tivo Desktop Plus. Pull a recording over, use DSD to make it an MPG, then use DTB to cut the commercials and convert it to an X.264 MP4. Beautiful.


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## jkalnin (Jan 8, 2003)

What about VideoRedo Plus? No need for DSD as VideoRedo supports .tivo files. It has commercial detection in the software, and you can automatically remove all commercials. Resave the file, move it back to your TiVo. Done.

http://www.videoredo.com/en/ProductPlus.htm


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

conehead65 said:


> Can anyone tell me, does Tivo series 2 remove commercials automatically?





dianebrat said:


> no





Turtleboy said:


> I think you meant to say:
> 
> No.


Actually, the answer is probably "yes". Yes, you can tell him a Tivo series 2 will not remove commercials automatically.


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## Revolutionary (Dec 1, 2004)

jkalnin said:


> What about VideoRedo Plus? No need for DSD as VideoRedo supports .tivo files. It has commercial detection in the software, and you can automatically remove all commercials. Resave the file, move it back to your TiVo. Done.
> 
> http://www.videoredo.com/en/ProductPlus.htm


I'm sure VideoReDo is great, and props to Dan and all, but I should have said that DvrMSToolbox does all that *automatically*. I set it up once, and now it does the rest without my intervention.

Yes, it is (very) complicated to set up, but now when I wake up in the morning, my Tivo-recorded programs are waiting for me in mp4 format with no commercials, and, compared to Tivo Desktop, better picture quality. And actually, its easier to set up if you aren't transcoding to MP4.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Revolutionary,

Curious as to how accurate DvrMSToolbox is at detecting commercials and cutting accurately? 

Scott


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Revolutionary said:


> I'm sure VideoReDo is great, and props to Dan and all, but I should have said that DvrMSToolbox does all that *automatically*. I set it up once, and now it does the rest without my intervention.


The free Autoprocessor add-on for VideoRedo will "watch" your TiVo Recordings folder for new TiVo recordings and process files automatically.


Click image for larger.

I am still curious whether the commercial detection in DvrMSToolbox does a better job than the VideoRedo defaults.

What's the process of setting up DvrMSToolbox with a TiVo? Do you use TiVo Desktop set to import downloaded recordings into Windows Media Center? Or do you use another download tool to automatically remove the .Tivo wrapper first?


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

mikeyts said:


> ReplayTV famously added an automatic commercial skip feature, which brought down law suits on them from every major network. The cost of defending themselves from these lawsuits drove their parent company, SonicBlue, into receivership. The first thing that the company which bought ReplayTV from SonicBlue did was remove the feature .





conehead65 said:


> Amazing stuffs guys !!!
> Media Center with extras sounds cool !!!
> There is a Replay TV box for sale locally, I wonder if the capabilities are in the box or with the service? Do you need a service like with Tivo?


The capabilities are in the box. Three models of ReplayTV offer _Commercial Advance_. 4000 Series ReplayTVs include service in the price. 4500 and 5000 Series require that service be activated separately. 5500 Series eliminated _CA_.
http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/support/replaytv/faqs.asp

Although 4500 and 5000 Series ReplayTV both have _CA_ they differ markedly from each other. The 5000 Series brought many TiVo like changes but can't transfer programs with 4500's. Because ReplayTV had advertised that it would, they offered a free exchange of 5000's's for 4500's which probably was a significant factor causing ReplayTV's eventual demise as a standalone DVR.

A problem with _CA_ is that it works erratically at best. Sometimes, depending on the program source, it works flawlessly but other times it's flakey. Sometimes CA doesn't work the first time but if you accidently see a commercial that interests you, CA will skip it every time thereafter.

I've been told just the opposite by a ReplayTV old-timer, but have found that although _CA_ can be turned on and off for new recordings, once a program is recorded with _CA_ it stays on after being turned off for new recordings.

From experience I don't like the way _CA_ works, and always turn it off. I use ReplayTV and Toshiba's TiVo DVD in conjunction with hi-def STBs and DVRs to archive programs in standard def. If you're interested in buying a RTV5040, PM me.



HerronScott said:


> Revolutionary,
> 
> Curious as to how accurate DvrMSToolbox is at detecting commercials and cutting accurately?
> 
> Scott


I too am curious about how accurate it is.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

fallingwater said:


> The capabilities are in the box. Three models of ReplayTV offer _Commercial Advance_. 4000 Series ReplayTVs include service in the price. 4500 and 5000 Series require that service be activated separately. 5500 Series eliminated _CA_.
> http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/support/replaytv/faqs.asp


This is in line with what I wrote. The 4000 Series and 5000 Series were produced when the product belonged to Sonicblue; after they sold it to D&M Holdings, which continued the brand through its Digital Networks North America property, the new ReplayTV division of DNNA launched the 5500 Series a few months after, without "Commercial Advance" and "Send Show", the two features the networks sued to have removed. I don't know if DNNA continued to sell any remaining stock of pre-5500 models, but they didn't manufacture more them. (They also never pushed a firmware update to remove the features from existing units, whose maintenance they assumed). They stopped making ReplayTV units altogether in 2005, a couple of years after they bought the company, and most recently sold their related IP to DirecTV.

From a 2003 NY Times article on the subject:


> Last month the maker of ReplayTV, a line of digital video recorders that allows consumers to record and store hours of their favorite television programs on hard drives instead of tape, agreed to remove two features from its devices that simplified life for consumers but complicated business for entertainment providers.
> 
> ReplayTV's new 5500 model, which will go on sale next month, will no longer be able to skip entire commercials automatically without recording them or to send recorded programming over the Internet to other ReplayTV users outside a home network. The recorders will, however, still be able to store large libraries of programming indefinitely and allow users to skip manually through recorded commercials in 30-second increments.
> 
> ...


It would have been interesting to see the results of the networks' suit against Sonicblue had it been allowed to continue through its end. They certainly would have won on the issue of "Send Show"--the operation was a blatant act of copyright infringing distribution. "Commercial Advance" is another matter. I don't see how it's much different from an end user editing out of the program by hand to make a second copy for personal use, which would be perfectly legal (I think ).


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## Revolutionary (Dec 1, 2004)

bkdtv said:


> The free Autoprocessor add-on for VideoRedo will "watch" your TiVo Recordings folder for new TiVo recordings and process files automatically.
> 
> 
> Click image for larger.
> ...


[Sorry, this is a long one...]

That's very interesting about Autoprocessor, I didn't know about that tool. Thanks! How good of a job does VRD do at commercial detection? I could easily integrate it into my setup if it is better. I'll have to test it (see below). Does Autoprocessor work with the VRD free-trial?

DvrMSToolbox is really just a process-automater, although it does handle a few important tasks on its own. One of those is commercial detection and removal for DVR-MS files. It integrates either ShowAnalyzer (paid) or Comskip (free) to detect commercials. If you are cutting those commercials from a .dvr-ms, then it will cut the commercials natively. If, like I do, you are cutting them from an .mpg, you have to invoke mencoder to do the cutting. This sounds complicated, but there is a pre-fab'ed profile for mencoder that includes the functionality (it doesn't so much "cut" the commercials as omit them from the output file as it converts the .mpg, even if mencoder is just copying the audio and video streams from the source into a new .mpg).

Using the default settings, comskip is terrible at HD MPEG2, and ShowAnalyzer is not much better. I had to really work to tweak Comskip, and it still is not great, just decent. I really dialed things back because, on my first ever run of Comskip, it cut a 1-hour HD recording down to 6 minutes.  Now it cuts MOST commercials, but still occasionally cuts out the first few seconds of a new scene.

As for the process, you don't have to invoke or even have MCE to use DTB. I use TivoDesktop Plus to automatically pull recordings over and DirectShowDump to free them. DTB is setup to watch the Tivo Recordings folder for new .mpg files. When it detects a new one, DTB runs Comskip to generate a .edl file, then invokes mencoder to copy the .mpg to a new .mpg container without the commercials (you can also set it up to copy the original metadata into the new file, but I don't bother), and then it deletes the original .mpg. I then have a separate profile that converts the new MPG to h.264 MP4 for my PSP (you can go straight to MP4 with mencoder if you want, but I like having the option to shuttle the MPG back to the Tivo without commercials). I also have these profiles also set up to auto-catch/convert new "non-Tivo" .mkv files, too. 

It takes a LOT of time to set up the profiles, but once they are done, it is "fire and forget."


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

mikeyts said:


> They certainly would have won on the issue of "Send Show"--the operation was a blatant act of copyright infringing distribution. "Commercial Advance" is another matter. I don't see how it's much different from an end user editing out of the program by hand to make a second copy for personal use, which would be perfectly legal (I think ).


not so sure on sendshow - it would depend on what was being sent and how replay controlled it. NFL broadcasts specifically prohibit rebroadcast and so forth. OTA shows could probably be sent without issue - other content falls somewhere in between. I wish TiVo would revisit the send feature they were working on. Most likely TiVo just let the feature go as being too complex from a legal standpoint to deal with.

as for editing the commercials out - I would think that illegal and wonder why no one has gone after the DVD recorders that allow for on box editing. Ah well - if it is at home use then likely the broadcasters consider it not worth going after and other laws can be used for anyone distributing the edited content beyond the home.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> not so sure on sendshow - it would depend on what was being sent and how replay controlled it. NFL broadcasts specifically prohibit rebroadcast and so forth. OTA shows could probably be sent without issue - other content falls somewhere in between.


I wrote a long counter argument defending my position, but this topic is an endless, dark and harry rathole that I've climbed down before in other forums, in threads that went on for many months whose post counts climbed into high 4 figures. Let's just agree to disagree .


> as for editing the commercials out - I would think that illegal and wonder why no one has gone after the DVD recorders that allow for on box editing.


Why do you think that would be illegal? As far as I know, you can make as many copies of broadcast television as you'd like and you can do whatever you want the recordings (except give or sell a copy while keeping any for yourself ). You can chop them up into little pieces and serve them tossed in a salad. Why do you think that you can't legally edit them and view the edited copies in your home? Moreover, I don't believe that the Commercial Advance feature of ReplayTV creates an edited copy, as software like VideoReDo does--it just dynamically skips playback of ads, leaving the original copy intact.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

mikeyts said:


> Moreover, I don't believe that the Commercial Advance feature of ReplayTV creates an edited copy, as software like VideoReDo does--it just dynamically skips playback of ads, leaving the original copy intact.


well no legal brief on the sending of shows - I posted that at best it is a legally complex feature for TiVo - so sure we can leave it at that - not much difference in the stance for eitehr of us.

clearly the content providers thought they had a case on the commercial advance in replay. Some groups tried to promote DVD players that could be set to skip over movie content that was not G etc.. They got sent packing due to copyright violation. 
I am fairly sure that editing someone else's content is illegal and the only thing in the VCR tape case from which all home recording of TV flows said was that recording for later playback was a fair use and legal. Of course there is little to be gained by content providers over worrying if home users chop up recordings and sprinkle them on salads or whatever so I doubt we will see a case unless some consume device gives them cause for concern, real or imagined.

so I do not have much else to argue on it anyway and will continue to edit my home stuff as needed as well


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Some groups tried to promote DVD players that could be set to skip over movie content that was not G etc.. They got sent packing due to copyright violation.


No, they didn't:
http://www.familysafemedia.com/edited_movies_-_parental_contr.html

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=2598456


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

Not Sold Online

Not Sold in Stores


Yay Walmart!


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

TonyTheTiger said:


> Not Sold Online
> 
> Not Sold in Stores
> 
> Yay Walmart!


Oh, I didn't see that before posting, that's pretty funny!


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Why would Wal-Mart even have that listed if you can't get it?


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

There's also ClearPlay DVD players, which I noticed online about 5 years back and told my close friend and (then) office-mate about who bought one immediately. He's a devout-but-not-preachy Christian with 6 kids who was always complaining about films that I and others told him about that would be fine for his family if not for some small amount of foul language or trivial bit of nudity. That company would also seem to be alive and thriving. EDIT: Sorry--I thought that "Family Safe Media" site was about something else and I didn't bother to look at the Wal Mart page.

Apparently, Congress passed the Family Entertainment and Copyright Act which quashed suits against these companies. It very specifically supports "sanitizing" technologies, so it wouldn't help to defend a suit against Commercial Advance (unless it specifically edited out only adverts for erectile disfunction, male enhancement products and "Girls Gone Wild" DVDs ). Maybe they could have tried to use that act (had it existed back then) via the "if it's applies to this it should apply to that" argument which was used to support the 1984 Sony v. Universal decision's liberal interpretation of Title 17's "Fair Use" doctrine, which, as written in the statute, specifically only allows use of portions of copyrighted works without permission--but no substantial part of the whole--by journalists, students and scholarly researchers in their work products. 5 of 9 SCJs decided that that could be construed as allowing non-productive use of whole copyrighted works sans permission by consumers in their homes ).


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

gonzotek said:


> Oh, I didn't see that before posting, that's pretty funny!


ah, they passed an act to allow them. Cool - it really is a common sense thing that these were not copyright violators but just people wanting to be mainstream without the vulgarity.
similar items - "Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince" !?
I do not think some of those conservative christian groups would want that to be a similar item 

PS - with all the swearing in the "Short Circuit" movie - which otherwise is a nice family film I bet the movie is about 30 minutes long on one of these players.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

mikeyts said:


> ...I don't see how ("Commercial Advance") is much different from an end user editing out of the program by hand to make a second copy for personal use, which would be perfectly legal (I think ).


It all depends on whether you have to do it by pushing a button or the machine does it automatically.

What do you trust more? A machine or your lyin' eyes? 
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/announcement.php?f=3&a=82


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## kylen (Oct 6, 2002)

Revolutionary said:


> Using the default settings, comskip is terrible at HD MPEG2, and ShowAnalyzer is not much better. I had to really work to tweak Comskip, and it still is not great, just decent. I really dialed things back because, on my first ever run of Comskip, it cut a 1-hour HD recording down to 6 minutes.  Now it cuts MOST commercials, but still occasionally cuts out the first few seconds of a new scene.


Could you post your comskip.ini file? I'm still getting commercials kept and show cut.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

revolutionary,

TVAP will do everything you have in your process. It will work with the free trial versions of VideoReDo but be sure to do the on line registration for the free trial or videos are limited to 30 minutes.

The mp4 encoding is done with a user supplied TVAPpostProcess.cmd batch file where anything that can be called from the batch can be used, typically HandBrake.

With VRD you get the Quick Stream Fix function which "repairs" mpeg2 (or tivo) files and really is "quick". If you get the TVSuite version you can also create DVD's -- but only manually -- TVAP doesn't automate that.

TVAP automatically creates a metadata text file. If you use pyTivo to send the file back to tivo, the full metadata will be there --and you can send .mp4 or any video format back. If you output in .dvr-ms format most of the metadata is put in the output file. See the TVAPreadMe.txt file for details.

To my knowledge there is no commercial-removing software that doesn't require tuning and won't still make a few errors, and that applies to the AdDetective feature of VideoReDo.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

dlfl said:


> To my knowledge there is no commercial-removing software that doesn't require tuning and won't still make a few errors, and that applies to the AdDetective feature of VideoReDo.


_For others..._

This PDF has a few tips for improving the reliability / accuracy of VideoRedo's AdDetective.

Disabling Fast Search and adjusting the detection area to exclude logos seems to help immensely on a few channels like FOX. Most cable channels seem to do just fine with the defaults.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

If you are looking for accurate cuts and want it done quickly it's just better to do it yourself manually. With a little practice using VideoRedo or Womble I can accurately cut out commercials in about 5 minutes per hour of show. Running automated commercial detection (like comskip or AdDetective) takes several minutes, inevitably is not accurate even after a lot of tweaking and then becomes a pain to correct in video editor.

For casual viewing purposes where the cut points are not precise and you don't mind potentially losing part of a show or having extra commercials in it the automated method is nice in that you can fully automate the process and never touch the editor. But if the end goal is to use an editor anyway then I'd rather just do it myself in the 1st place.


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