# It's What Roamio Has Inside that Counts



## sbiller

Perhaps we can post tear-down pics here...?


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## monkeydust

Hmm... that's the 3TB version and that HD is available for 137.99 at amazon.com right now.


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## aaronwt

So it's still using a WD drive. I hope there aren't any issues with it. 

Now we need a pic of the inside of the base Roamio. And I guess the Roamio Plus also to verify that it is identical to the Pro.

Don't look at me though. I won't be opening up mine unless someone comes out with a method to upgrade the Plus hard drive before I pick up my Roamio Pro. But it's great that there are plenty of people that don't mid opening up their units. Thanks!!


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## mlippert

Since the Premiere's were underpowered, does anyone know what cpu is in the new Roamio's? I read some reviews saying it was the most responsive TiVo ever, but I'd still like to know details, and what others think of those details.


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## Tico

mlippert said:


> Since the Premiere's were underpowered, does anyone know what cpu is in the new Roamio's? I read some reviews saying it was the most responsive TiVo ever, but I'd still like to know details, and what others think of those details.


http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2013-06/tivo-series-5/


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## zgamer

mlippert said:


> Since the Premiere's were underpowered, does anyone know what cpu is in the new Roamio's? I read some reviews saying it was the most responsive TiVo ever, but I'd still like to know details, and what others think of those details.


The Roamio Plus has a Broadcom BCM7241, assuming the Pro has the same proc but haven't seen a opened up base model yet.

From Broadcom I'm seeing the following specs: 40 nm, HD IP/CATV STB, 3K DMIPS App CPU, DDR3, 700M p/s OpenGL ES 2.0 3D graphics, USB, SATA, ethernet & SVC Decoding


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## moyekj

1 important spec for some people is what tuner chip is being used? Hopefully not Maxlinear as is the case for Elite/XL4 units.


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## ncbill

somebody please open up the smaller, base Roamio and find out if it has a 2.5" instead of 3.5" hard drive.

iirc, the largest 2.5" sata drive available @ retail is only 1.5TB.


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## Philmatic

This is delicious!


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## Philmatic

The size of the WiFi card (Top left) seems to indicate that it was a last minute decision, seems to have been glue on after the final design of the motherboard. No reason to not include this in the original design of the motherboard and integrate it.


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## BigJimOutlaw

My dose of nerd porn for the day. 

One good take-away is that there's no additional active cooling for the Stream chip. So that'll manage any extra noise that some noticed with the Stream.

I see a rev2 coming someday?


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## sbiller

BigJimOutlaw said:


> My dose of nerd porn for the day.
> 
> One good take-away is that there's no additional active cooling for the Stream chip. So that'll manage any extra noise that some noticed with the Stream.
> 
> I see a rev2 coming someday?


And nobody commented on the clever title! 

I will need to attribute that title to a beloved blogger who was a day 1 reviewer of the Roamio.


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## brentil

You can tell TiVo has finally made it to the modern era, they have heatsinks on the CPUs now!


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## Kolenka

Philmatic said:


> The size of the WiFi card (Top left) seems to indicate that it was a last minute decision, seems to have been glue on after the final design of the motherboard. No reason to not include this in the original design of the motherboard and integrate it.


It is possible it is meant to be removable on certain SKUs. Say if only the Pro was going to have it during design.


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## P42

Sam can we get some more high rez pictures? Thanks!

I see a lot of unused but silk screened space on the board, as if there are other version of the board for other markets. For example, in the bottom right we can see a space for two additional inputs or outputs. I leave it to the folks more knowledgeable than me to identify all the various chips etc.


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## BiloxiGeek

Here's a thought. If that add-on card at the top left of the image is the WiFi adapter and you weren't going to use WiFi, could that be removed to save on power use and heat generation? 

Taking the thought a bit further, could the connector on the main board then be used to something else? Not sure what would be useful but I do remember the Sony SVR-2000's had the edge connnector that was apparently for factory troubleshooting use and somebody out there designed and manufactured the Cache Card's and TurboNet cards so those TiVo's could connect to ethernet instead of using a phone line.


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## brentil

P42 said:


> Sam can we get some more high rez pictures? Thanks!
> 
> I see a lot of unused but silk screened space on the board, as if there are other version of the board for other markets. For example, in the bottom right we can see a space for two additional inputs or outputs. I leave it to the folks more knowledgeable than me to identify all the various chips etc.


This same hardware is also the Pace XG1 designed for them by TiVo so there may be extra features on those not used here.


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## aaronwt

BiloxiGeek said:


> Here's a thought. If that add-on card at the top left of the image is the WiFi adapter and you weren't going to use WiFi, could that be removed to save on power use and heat generation?
> 
> Taking the thought a bit further, could the connector on the main board then be used to something else? Not sure what would be useful but I do remember the Sony SVR-2000's had the edge connnector that was apparently for factory troubleshooting use and somebody out there designed and manufactured the Cache Card's and TurboNet cards so those TiVo's could connect to ethernet instead of using a phone line.


I would think the stream chip would be more of a heat generator than the WiFi chips.


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## P42

IMO yes, thought it is not a significant source of power consumption or heat. It is also possible that the OS / software checks for it's existence, and will fail to boot if it is absent. The older Tivos, S1 and S2, were not as locked down as the current generation, hence the ability for those tweeks.

As for the wifi card been removable, several possible reasons. It keeps the mainboard a nice regular shape. It provides an easy way to change it for different markets - I know the number of G channels differs. It is possible that it was an option to get the wifi chip and supporting bits that way, saving design work on the mainboard. 

If it was a lat minute add, they'd have thrown a USB wifi dongle into the box.


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## P42

Didn't know that brentil, that is interesting. Thanks!


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## sbiller

P42 said:


> Sam can we get some more high rez pictures? Thanks!
> 
> I see a lot of unused but silk screened space on the board, as if there are other version of the board for other markets. For example, in the bottom right we can see a space for two additional inputs or outputs. I leave it to the folks more knowledgeable than me to identify all the various chips etc.


We will need to wait for some other(s) to break-open their units. I actually don't have a unit. I requested the pic from a blogger who had a day 1 review unit.


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## P42

Cool Sam, I'm sure by the weekend we'll have our fill of pics


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## MeInDallas

Well they decided to mount the drives right side up this time 

And someone said the largest 2.5 drive available is 1.5TB, but Western Digital has a 2TB Green drive thats the WD20NPVX for $179 @ Newegg. Not an A/V drive though.


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## Dan203

So it is a 2.5" drive in the base unit?


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## MeInDallas

I dont know, I'm trying to see if anyone has posted about it yet.


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## jmpage2

I've been googling around but haven't found an answer. How does the CPU in the Pro/Plus/Basic compare with the CPU in the Mini, speed-wise?


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## jfh3

I will have a base unit tomorrow and will post some internal pics unless someone beats me to it.


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## hefe

jfh3 said:


> I will have a base unit tomorrow and will post some internal pics unless someone beats me to it.


Cool, thanks!


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## MeInDallas

jfh3 said:


> I will have a base unit tomorrow and will post some internal pics unless someone beats me to it.


Thank you! We look forward to it!


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## Big Boy Laroux

As someone who just replaced a PSU on his TiVoHD, i hope to god this PSU has non-plagued capacitors...


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## BigJimOutlaw

jmpage2 said:


> I've been googling around but haven't found an answer. How does the CPU in the Pro/Plus/Basic compare with the CPU in the Mini, speed-wise?


Not positive of the CPU in the base model, but if it's the same as the Plus/Pro then on paper Roamio is theoretically 3x as fast. (3000 dmips vs 1100 dmips). Tivo is claiming "up to" 2.5x in real-world tasks.

It eats the UI for breakfast in the video clips... The responsive RF remote is helping too.


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## MeInDallas

Dan203 said:


> So it is a 2.5" drive in the base unit?


I called Weaknees and confirmed it is a full size 3.5" drive in the base model. They now have upgraded models on their website for sale.


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## collin

P42 said:


> As for the wifi card been removable, several possible reasons. It keeps the mainboard a nice regular shape. It provides an easy way to change it for different markets - I know the number of G channels differs. It is possible that it was an option to get the wifi chip and supporting bits that way, saving design work on the mainboard.


Along this line of thinking, I suspect the wifi is added via card due to FCC certification reasons. If the wifi was directly on the mainboard, they would have to get that board FCC certified, and recertified every time they changed the card (for different markets, to update standards, etc.). This way they can buy off-the-shelf certified wifi modules and just put them in the Tivo units.


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## innocentfreak

No 4TB AV-GP drive so no idea if 3TB is the new limit or if there isn't one. 

Interesting to note the 3TB Plus from weeknees is cheaper than the Pro or same if the coupon still works.


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## MeInDallas

innocentfreak said:


> No 4TB AV-GP drive so no idea if 3TB is the new limit or if there isn't one.
> 
> Interesting to note the 3TB Plus from weeknees is cheaper than the Pro or same if the coupon still works.


Seagate makes a 4TB Pipeline HD model, Western Digital doesnt have one yet.


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## crxssi

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Not positive of the CPU in the base model, but if it's the same as the Plus/Pro then on paper Roamio is theoretically 3x as fast. (3000 dmips vs 1100 dmips). Tivo is claiming "up to" 2.5x in real-world tasks.


In the reviews I read, TiVo is claiming an overall 1.7X not 2.5X.

The big wildcard is going to be the dependence on Internet and TiVo's servers to fill in the stuff on the UI. That is likely unchanged.


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## aaronwt

innocentfreak said:


> No 4TB AV-GP drive so no idea if 3TB is the new limit or if there isn't one.
> 
> Interesting to note the 3TB Plus from weeknees is cheaper than the Pro or same if the coupon still works.


Only slightly cheaper. Then if you want an extended warranty for the 3TB Plus you need to get it from Weaknees. While with the Pro you could get it from TiVo. So with the coupons on both and extended warranties it's cheaper to just get the Roamio pro from weaknees and then get the 3 year extended warranty from TiVo. Although it's only $5 cheaper than getting both the 3TB Roamio plus and warranty from Wekanees.


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## BigJimOutlaw

crxssi said:


> In the reviews I read, TiVo is claiming an overall 1.7X not 2.5X.
> 
> The big wildcard is going to be the dependence on Internet and TiVo's servers to fill in the stuff on the UI. That is likely unchanged.


Yes. That was cnet. Their quote is, "TiVo claims performance is 1.5 to 2.5 times faster, averaging 1.7 times faster."


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## crxssi

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Yes. That was cnet. Their quote is, "TiVo claims performance is 1.5 to 2.5 times faster, averaging 1.7 times faster."


Then you are being an optimist 

Averaging them seems reasonable, but I prefer reality, and with TiVo you know how that can go..... so 1.5X is probably a safer number to throw out for now


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## Dan203

Big Boy Laroux said:


> As someone who just replaced a PSU on his TiVoHD, i hope to god this PSU has non-plagued capacitors...


The Basic one uses an external power brick so if it goes it should be cheap and easy to fix. The Plus/Pro still has an internal power supply so who knows.

In my experience bricks do fail more often, but they typically cost $10-$20 to replace and you can usually find one that'll work at the local RadioShack so you can get back up and running quickly.


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## crxssi

Dan203 said:


> In my experience bricks do fail more often, but they typically cost $10-$20 to replace and you can usually find one that'll work at the local RadioShack so you can get back up and running quickly.


Maybe an aftermarket Ebay one is $10 to $20! OEM AC adapters for laptops and other powerful devices typically run in the $40 to $75 range...

Even Radio Shack brand, which is likely not enough wattage, is $35 to $40. http://www.radioshack.com/product/i...nSession=1&filterName=Category#stuff-you-want


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## BigJimOutlaw

crxssi said:


> Then you are being an optimist
> 
> Averaging them seems reasonable, but I prefer reality, and with TiVo you know how that can go..... so 1.5X is probably a safer number to throw out for now


I said "up to" 2.5x... even used quotes. I did good.


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## Dan203

crxssi said:


> Maybe an aftermarket Ebay one is $10 to $20! OEM AC adapters for laptops and other powerful devices typically run in the $40 to $75 range...
> 
> Even Radio Shack brand, which is likely not enough wattage, is $35 to $40. http://www.radioshack.com/product/i...nSession=1&filterName=Category#stuff-you-want


The Mini uses a 12v 1a brick. Assuming the TiVo needs a bit more power lets assume a 1.5-2a supply. There is one of those on Amazon, with Prime shipping, for $6. But even if it costs $40 like the RadioShack one it's still cheaper then the $100+shipping it costs to buy a S3 power supply from Weaknees.


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## steve614

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if TiVo made the connector off spec a bit so you'd have to buy the replacement brick from them.


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## tivogurl

steve614 said:


> It wouldn't surprise me one bit if TiVo made the connector off spec a bit so you'd have to buy the replacement brick from them.


Does TiVo have the money and clout for custom stuff? Apple does stuff like that, but they can afford it.


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## Dan203

steve614 said:


> It wouldn't surprise me one bit if TiVo made the connector off spec a bit so you'd have to buy the replacement brick from them.


I hope not because even now I don't see a replacement brick for the Mini listed on their site.


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## jmpage2

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Not positive of the CPU in the base model, but if it's the same as the Plus/Pro then on paper Roamio is theoretically 3x as fast. (3000 dmips vs 1100 dmips). Tivo is claiming "up to" 2.5x in real-world tasks.
> 
> It eats the UI for breakfast in the video clips... The responsive RF remote is helping too.


Thanks. I was referring to speed difference between Roamio and Mini though... Not between Roamio and Premiere.


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## MeInDallas

steve614 said:


> It wouldn't surprise me one bit if TiVo made the connector off spec a bit so you'd have to buy the replacement brick from them.


I wish someone would look at theirs and post the specs so we would know


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## BigJimOutlaw

jmpage2 said:


> Thanks. I was referring to speed difference between Roamio and Mini though... Not between Roamio and Premiere.


Ah. We don't really know. There aren't any detailed published specs for the chip in the Mini.


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## JohnnyO

Another thread had a photo of the inside of the base Roamio unit. Unlike the older units, or the new Plus and Pro units, it appears there is no external fan, but there appears to be a fan between the area where the disk drive is located, and the rest of the machine. How does air get in and out of the unit? Is this likely to have a negative impact on the lifespan of the basic Roamio?


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## MeInDallas

If you look at that pic, you will see on both sides of the unit has vents, so the fan pulls air in by the hard drive, pulls it over and past the drive to cool it, and then blows out the back of the fan across the motherboard to the vents on the other side. right to left in the photo.


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## JohnnyO

Another thread mentioned that while the TiVo web site shows all three new Roamio boxes having 1GB Ethernet, the base unit supposedly only has 10/100 MB/sec Ethernet. With a base unit on order, this is a little frustrating. How efficient is the TiVo when it comes to transferring data? How much longer will it take to move an HD episode of an hour long show from the base Roamer to my Mac using KMTTG vs doing the same transfer with the Plus or Pro? (I can do the math -- I'm really asking if the theoretical network throughput is the limiting factor, or if something else in the path diminishes the value of the 1GB interface when it comes to throughput).

John


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## JohnnyO

MeInDallas said:


> If you look at that pic, you will see on both sides of the unit has vents, so the fan pulls air in by the hard drive, pulls it over and past the drive to cool it, and then blows out the back of the fan across the motherboard to the vents on the other side. right to left in the photo.


Thanks for the detailed info. I think that should do it. Since heat rises, I'm thinking I should shuffle the three components in my entertainment unit to have the heat generating A/V receiver on the top shelf, and the cooler TiVo and Blu-Ray players below it. Right now the TiVoHD is on the top of the three shelves. I do, at least, keep the doors open on that unit at all times, but it still feels warm in there.


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## Series3Sub

Dan203 said:


> The Basic one uses an external power brick so if it goes it should be cheap and easy to fix. The Plus/Pro still has an internal power supply so who knows.
> 
> In my experience bricks do fail more often, but they typically cost $10-$20 to replace and you can usually find one that'll work at the local RadioShack so you can get back up and running quickly.


Yeah, and no RMA hassle with TiVo (buh, bye, recordings) handing you back a refurb with likely the same vendor PS, nor dealing with 3rd party (weeknees) having to ship back and forth. I would certainly expect Weeknees and others to sell the replacement external PS, for those who want to get from them as opposed to a compatible brick from a less expensive maker/seller.


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## Series3Sub

steve614 said:


> It wouldn't surprise me one bit if TiVo made the connector off spec a bit so you'd have to buy the replacement brick from them.


Oh, yeah. Very good point as others are doing the same. However, it may be a case of insuring that the proper brick is connected and avoid situation where folks who aren't as knowledgeable getting an off spec brick. If TiVo does have odd connector, fine. Just price the replacement reasonably. I really don't have a problem laying out as much as $30 plus (a big mark-up, I know) to get my TiVo back up and running and saving any shipping hassle and cost losing recordings on an exchange with TiVo (we're talking about the masses here, not our embrace of software to move recordings, etc.) or breaking the thing open as with previous models. Of course, gang, this is ONLY the Roamio we're talking about, not the Plus or Pro.


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## Series3Sub

I would really love people to upload videos to YouTube showing us real-life UI and speed of commands and screen changes, etc in real time. I'll keep searching there each day. I feel nearly 100% I will get the Roamio for my OTA needs, but I will wait just a bit to hear of any bugs, etc. to see if I should wait longer for fixes, or, really hoping for, the Roamio performs pretty well upon release, then I'm getting one--after selling my S4's.


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## jrtroo

Fyi_ hot air rises, while heat conducts. The fan is sucking out the hot air that the heatsinc pulls from the chips.


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## innocentfreak

Series3Sub said:


> I would really love people to upload videos to YouTube showing us real-life UI and speed of commands and screen changes, etc in real time. I'll keep searching there each day. I feel nearly 100% I will get the Roamio for my OTA needs, but I will wait just a bit to hear of any bugs, etc. to see if I should wait longer for fixes, or, really hoping for, the Roamio performs pretty well upon release, then I'm getting one--after selling my S4's.







It doesn't show a ton of it, but they do show the UI in action.


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## jcthorne

The power brick is a 12V 2 amp unit using a standard barrel connector with positive voltage on the center electrode. These will be cheap to replace if they fail.

It also means the Roamio base unit uses less power than a Premiere as the power supply is only rated at 24W max which is less than the idle power of the Premiere.


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## dlfl

jcthorne said:


> The power brick is a 12V 2 amp unit using a standard barrel connector with positive voltage on the center electrode. These will be cheap to replace if they fail.
> 
> It also means the Roamio base unit uses less power than a Premiere as the power supply is only rated at 24W max which is less than the idle power of the Premiere.


Minor point but the brick isn't 100% efficient so it will use more than 24W max. On the other hand, the Roamio probably doesn't draw 2A on average.


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## Kolenka

dlfl said:


> Minor point but the brick isn't 100% efficient so it will use more than 24W max. On the other hand, the Roamio probably doesn't draw 2A on average.


Without the data telling us how efficient this particular supply is, it isn't terribly beneficial to talk to about the losses from the transformer.

What would be interesting is the Kill-a-Watt measurements from both a Premiere and Roamio under the same conditions. Throwing a Plus into the mix would be a good idea too.

But, the fact that the Premiere's supply was 120W peak, and the Roamio's supply is 24W peak is still good news. That's quite an improvement and will show up on the power bill.


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## jcthorne

You are correct sir. I overlooked the power supply losses which are included for the internal supply. Still looks to be a bit lower power usage. Will need to measure to be sure. The green drive helps.


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## dlfl

Kolenka said:


> ....
> But, the fact that the Premiere's supply was 120W peak, and the Roamio's supply is 24W peak is still good news. That's quite an improvement and will show up on the power bill.


I thought actual measurements of Premiere power consumption were in the 30 to 40 W range. (?)

This range costs me less than $3/mo. -- not worth worrying about. Only folks in the high-life-style, NIMBY states that have allowed their electric rates to sky rocket (e.g., CA) worry about that kind of stuff.


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## jcthorne

My Roamio shows 14w running. (Kill a Watt meter) I think all 4 tuners record all the time so not sure one could vary the load other than by using standby.

And my wife says I am officially acting like a nerd with my new nerd toy. Thanks guys.


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## dlfl

jcthorne said:


> My Roamio shows 14w running. (Kill a Watt meter) I think all 4 tuners record all the time so not sure one could vary the load other than by using standby.
> 
> And my wife says I am officially acting like a nerd with my new nerd toy. Thanks guys.


Your wife actually watches what you're doing that closely ?


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## aaronwt

dlfl said:


> I thought actual measurements of Premiere power consumption were in the 30 to 40 W range. (?)
> 
> This range costs me less than $3/mo. -- not worth worrying about. Only folks in the high-life-style, NIMBY states that have allowed their electric rates to sky rocket (e.g., CA) worry about that kind of stuff.


The Premiere was around 25 watts with the Elite being a little less.

So how many watts does the Plus/Pro draw?

14 watts is a very low power draw for the base Roamio compared to the Elite/XL4.


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## Kolenka

jcthorne said:


> My Roamio shows 14w running. (Kill a Watt meter) I think all 4 tuners record all the time so not sure one could vary the load other than by using standby.
> 
> And my wife says I am officially acting like a nerd with my new nerd toy. Thanks guys.


14W while recording is pretty good.



dlfl said:


> I thought actual measurements of Premiere power consumption were in the 30 to 40 W range. (?)
> 
> This range costs me less than $3/mo. -- not worth worrying about. Only folks in the high-life-style, NIMBY states that have allowed their electric rates to sky rocket (e.g., CA) worry about that kind of stuff.


Without actual numbers, can only compare the peaks, and hope the relative differences are somewhat similar. 30-40 down to 14 is still pretty good. Maybe 50% higher than the streaming boxes sitting at about 10W with the latest models.

It also depends on what eats at your bill too. For me, the entertainment center and my home server account for most of my power bill at this point. A couple bucks here and there add up over time.


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## Dan203

The Elite draws 19W. It's better then the 2 tuner Premiere because the analog encoding chip is disabled. The Roamio doesn't even have an analog encoder. However the Plus/Pro have the transcoder for streaming so that might kick it up a bit.


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## jcthorne

dlfl said:


> Your wife actually watches what you're doing that closely ?


Only when she wants to poke fun at me. It was fair, I was kidding her about her girlfriend football get together Sunday.


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## drawz

The daughterboard may also allow TiVo to upgrade wireless technologies easily (e.g. wireless AC) and/or use different suppliers for wifi. In addition, it looks to me like there might be some RAM on that module? Maybe there's more going on there?


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## oceanblue

sbiller said:


> And nobody commented on the clever title!
> 
> I will need to attribute that title to a beloved blogger who was a day 1 reviewer of the Roamio.


Any idea which tuner is inside? Maxlinear again?


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## Unbeliever

steve614 said:


> It wouldn't surprise me one bit if TiVo made the connector off spec a bit so you'd have to buy the replacement brick from them.


What? You don't have a pair of ***** and some wire nuts? *grin*

(or heat shrink tubing and a soldering iron to do it "nice")

--Carlos V.


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## realfun4u

Can we put in a bigger HD (in terms of TB size into a Roamio Pro?

as i would like to go to the biggest capacity i can


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## dianebrat

realfun4u said:


> Can we put in a bigger HD (in terms of TB size into a Roamio Pro?
> 
> as i would like to go to the biggest capacity i can


I'd suggest reading the upgrade thread
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=507695


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## aaronwt

realfun4u said:


> Can we put in a bigger HD (in terms of TB size into a Roamio Pro?
> 
> as i would like to go to the biggest capacity i can


Only if you buy it from Weaknees. There isn't a DIY solution for anything higher than 3TB. And the Pro already comes with a 3TB drive. So if you want to pay $350, you can get a 4TB drive that will work in the Roamio Pro.


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