# cancellation 'policy' takes money for *nothing*



## MarcRWC (Jan 27, 2015)

I just noticed that I have been receiving an annual charge for a unit that has not been in operation for over 3 years. Shame on me for not noticing the details on my statement every December (buried among the many holiday season charges), but it was a clear mistake and TiVo certainly could make it right. Nope. I'm not sure what happened 3.5 years ago when I initiated my service on the new unit - was it my fault or theirs the old service wasn't discontinued or transferred?, but taking nearly $400 for *absolutely nothing* is at best unethical, and, in my mind, stealing. They have the chance to make it right and credit my account, keeping a customer and keeping them happy. But they won't even offer half measures, only token appeasement (which, in case you can't tell, isn't working).

Turns out my cable company will give me the HW for free *and* charge me less per month than I pay for TiVo. I'm sure the HW is comparable or at least good enough, and anything I can't get through that DVR I can get on my Roku.

See you later TiVo....


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

You may win for the longest period of time for someone to not notice being billed so much. Did you call your credit card company to complain?


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

I can't say that I have much sympathy for you. This situation is mostly your own fault. You clearly need to be looking at your financial statements better. 

Good luck with the cable company DVR. You're going to need it. And you might want to look at your cable bill better than you have been looking at your credit card bill. Don't count on the cable company DVR to be "free" forever.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MarcRWC said:


> I just noticed that I have been receiving an annual charge for a unit that has not been in operation for over 3 years. Shame on me for not noticing the details on my statement every December (buried among the many holiday season charges), but it was a clear mistake and TiVo certainly could make it right. Nope. I'm not sure what happened 3.5 years ago when I initiated my service on the new unit - was it my fault or theirs the old service wasn't discontinued or transferred?, but taking nearly $400 for *absolutely nothing* is at best unethical, and, in my mind, stealing. They have the chance to make it right and credit my account, keeping a customer and keeping them happy. But they won't even offer half measures, only token appeasement (which, in case you can't tell, isn't working).
> 
> Turns out my cable company will give me the HW for free *and* charge me less per month than I pay for TiVo. I'm sure the HW is comparable or at least good enough, and anything I can't get through that DVR I can get on my Roku.
> 
> See you later TiVo....


They were charging you for making the TiVo service available.

You never told them you didn't want the service anymore.

How is it their fault that you didn't use the service for which you were paying?

Did the TiVo quit working and you just didn't bother looking into getting it fixed?

If it still works, that 3 years may very well qualify you to get a lifetime subscription on the unit for only $99, which would give it some resale value.

What's the model number? (starts with TCD and is on the sticker on the back)


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

I have a feeling that this will be another "one post wonder." We'll never hear from the OP again.

For what it's worth, I too have very little sympathy.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

On the bright side, you got along fine without that extra $100 each year for the past 3 1/2 years.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

MarcRWC said:


> I just noticed that I have been receiving an annual charge for a unit that has not been in operation for over 3 years. Shame on me for not noticing the details on my statement every December (buried among the many holiday season charges), but it was a clear mistake and TiVo certainly could make it right.


How do you expect Tivo to make your mistake right? That's asking them to reward you for being financially irresponsible. How does that make it right? You made the mistake (4 years in a row), live with it.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

We've seen this a bunch of times. Someone thinks they canceled, they didn't, they are charged for an indefinite amount of time until they notice. In the case of monthly charges the best TiVo can do is refund 90 days of charges. In this case, since it's annual, I assume they will credit you the charge that just happened in November but that's it.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

MarcRWC said:


> I just noticed that I have been receiving an annual charge for a unit that has not been in operation for over 3 years. Shame on me for not noticing the details on my statement every December (buried among the many holiday season charges), but it was a clear mistake and TiVo certainly could make it right. Nope. I'm not sure what happened 3.5 years ago when I initiated my service on the new unit - was it my fault or theirs the old service wasn't discontinued or transferred?, but taking nearly $400 for *absolutely nothing* is at best unethical, and, in my mind, stealing. They have the chance to make it right and credit my account, keeping a customer and keeping them happy. But they won't even offer half measures, only token appeasement (which, in case you can't tell, isn't working).
> 
> Turns out my cable company will give me the HW for free *and* charge me less per month than I pay for TiVo. I'm sure the HW is comparable or at least good enough, and anything I can't get through that DVR I can get on my Roku.
> 
> See you later TiVo....


You just said your not even sure you canceled the old service, TiVo does not know or care if your using your TiVo or not, if your paying for the service your getting the service, like getting a gift card and not using it. If you don't have an E-Mail from TiVo confirming your cancelation of service you will be out of luck, how can that be TiVo fault ?
Also most Credit cards don't last 3.5 years, so you must have gotten a updated card in that last 3.5 years, how did your Credit Card get updated at TiVo, could only be by you.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

Another good reason to get lifetime service. Pay it once and you're done. No chance of bogus charges continuing.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Frankly I think there's a combination of fault here. TiVo should automatically hold service on systems that fail to connect after some interval, since the service is not usable if it doesn't. After all, they also claim to terminate benefits of having a lifetime service unit on your account if it doesn't connect at some regular interval.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

dswallow said:


> Frankly I think there's a combination of fault here. TiVo should automatically hold service on systems that fail to connect after some interval, since the service is not usable if it doesn't. After all, they also claim to terminate benefits of having a lifetime service unit on your account if it doesn't connect at some regular interval.


No other business is expected to do that, so I don't know why TiVo would be. If I decide to go on a world cruise for 6 months but I forget to cancel my newspaper subscription and they keep billing my credit card, they won't stop delivering my papers every day even though it would be obvious to the newspaper delivery guy that they keep piling up.

This is a personal responsibility issue. TiVo should not have the responsibility to read peoples minds. If you tell someone to keep billing you for a service, then you should have every expectation that they will continue to do so until you tell them to stop. Adults should not expect to be treated like children that can't take responsibility for themselves. This reminds me of those silly affirmative consent policies universities are implementing.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

$400 is a small price to pay for the privilege of being counted as a Tivo owned subscription in their quarterly results. Not only will the OP now lack this distinction, he'll also be suffering with a cable company DVR. Never fear friend, for $15 a month you can be somebody again. Tivo doesn't judge.

I do so love these threads.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

Just Lock this Thread...:down:

and all other one and done posters


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## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

I admit I have never done anything with Tivo other than lifetime, so forgive me for not fully understanding, but are you saying that you have been charged $100 per year and not noticed until now, 3 years later?

I assume if this is the case and your latest $100 is for the year 2015, you could at least get back your payment towards 2015.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

LoadStar said:


> I have a feeling that this will be another "one post wonder." We'll never hear from the OP again.
> 
> For what it's worth, I too have very little sympathy.


Right. And why do we even bother responding to him rather than taking his word that he is going to punish himself with non-TiVo DVR's in order to spite TiVo?

Amazing that he cares enough to post here but can't be bothered to check his credit card invoices.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

"No, TiVo, I promise I haven't been using this service for the last three years, please refund my money."

"No, Sprint, I promise, I am not making any phone calls on my phone, please refund me all of my phone bill for the last 3 years."

"No, IRS, I promise, I am not using any public goods or services. Please refund my taxes for the last 3 years. Scouts honor."


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## randyb359 (Jan 3, 2009)

If gyms canceled service for all their members who don't go they would go out of business.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

tarheelblue32 said:


> No other business is expected to do that, so I don't know why TiVo would be. If I decide to go on a world cruise for 6 months but I forget to cancel my newspaper subscription and they keep billing my credit card, they won't stop delivering my papers every day even though it would be obvious to the newspaper delivery guy that they keep piling up.
> 
> This is a personal responsibility issue. TiVo should not have the responsibility to read peoples minds. If you tell someone to keep billing you for a service, then you should have every expectation that they will continue to do so until you tell them to stop. Adults should not expect to be treated like children that can't take responsibility for themselves. This reminds me of those silly affirmative consent policies universities are implementing.


You apparently failed to read my post.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

While this is certainly the OP's fault, does TiVo send out a reminder email a week before charging their card or anything? For as many threads about this we get, it seems that TiVo could at least remind the person that they'll be getting a charge soon and to make sure their credit card number and expiration date are up-to-date in the system.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

dswallow said:


> You apparently failed to read my post.


I read it quite thoroughly.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

dswallow said:


> Frankly I think there's a combination of fault here. TiVo should automatically hold service on systems that fail to connect after some interval, since the service is not usable if it doesn't.


That's just silly. Tivo isn't supposed to parent it's customers or guess about customer intentions.



> After all, they also claim to terminate benefits of having a lifetime service unit on your account if it doesn't connect at some regular interval.


That's a very different situation.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

dswallow said:


> Frankly I think there's a combination of fault here. TiVo should automatically hold service on systems that fail to connect after some interval, since the service is not usable if it doesn't. After all, they also claim to terminate benefits of having a lifetime service unit on your account if it doesn't connect at some regular interval.


I somewhat agree. 
I don't think TiVo should automatically hold service, but clearly they are already paying attention to server logs of the last time a unit has connected.

I think, after the (IIRC) 9 months w/o connecting that would trigger a loss of lifetime multi-service discount, it would be good for TiVo to reach out to anyone on an active monthly plan and alert them that their unit appears to be non-functional. (Heck it's a chance to try to upsell them to a newer TiVo )

That said, I still feel the primary blame is on the OP for failing to notice for years that he was being billed.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

More e-mail notifications from TiVo certainly wouldn't be a bad thing.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

CoxInPHX said:


> Just Lock this Thread...:down:
> 
> and all other one and done posters


Maybe we need to do like other forums where you have to have so many posts before you can create threads. Usually it is only 5 or 10.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

tivo could easily stop monthly billing and suspend service for out of contract units subscribed but not connecting. the problem is tivo has financial motivation to leave these units alone and collecting revenues. why not call, and send a letter or email follow up for the sake of customer service? they manage to follow up when tivo wants customer feedback, why not follow up to verify a unit was correctly left active on an account after it was replaced?

even when a rep at tivo knows a unit was defective and replaced, tivo would rather overlook all billing errors over 90 days old and justify their behavior with contract language that blames the customer (and earns revenue) rather than put a different policy in place that better protects their customers from overbilling. 

this is reported much too often for it to be an anomaly (across many different subscription services), and if tivo suspected someone was stealing service, they would disconnect the fraudulent service immediately, without hesitation - this tells me there's a clear conflict of interest on tivo's part.

and, yes, bottom line, the op should have checked the bill for accuracy, no matter what.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

NorthAlabama said:


> tivo could easily stop monthly billing and suspend service for out of contract units subscribed but not connecting. the problem is tivo has financial motivation to leave these units alone and collecting revenues. why not call, and send a letter or email follow up for the sake of customer service? they manage to follow up when tivo wants customer feedback, why not follow up to verify a unit was correctly left active on an account after it was replaced?
> 
> even when a rep at tivo knows a unit was defective and replaced, tivo would rather overlook all billing errors over 90 days old and justify their behavior with contract language that blames the customer (and earns revenue) rather than put a different policy in place that better protects their customers from overbilling.
> 
> ...


every business has a conflict of interest. 

Should Netflix contact you if you haven't used the service in awhile and ask you if you want to cancel?


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

trip1eX said:


> every business has a conflict of interest.
> 
> Should Netflix contact you if you haven't used the service in awhile and ask you if you want to cancel?


they could ask if you are having any trouble with the service because they noticed it hasn't been used in a while, couldn't they? it would go a long way to keeping a customer's loyalty in the long run if there was a billing error.

if you cancelled your credit card, they'd be in touch really fast, i'm just sayin'.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

NorthAlabama said:


> they could ask if you are having any trouble with the service because they noticed it hasn't been used in a while, couldn't they? it would go a long way to keeping a customer's loyalty in the long run if there was a billing error.
> 
> if you cancelled your credit card, they'd be in touch really fast, i'm just sayin'.


There's your solution. Report your credit card lost every time you cancel a service. 

You'll be shipped a new card and never have to worry about the canceled service continuing to charge you. You might have to update your cc info in a dozen places but small price to pay. 

I don't know. I can't get around that, still, the bottom line is you have to look at your statements anyway. People that are lazy about that open themselves up to problems like this.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

innocentfreak said:


> Maybe we need to do like other forums where you have to have so many posts before you can create threads. Usually it is only 5 or 10.


That would prevent people with problems from being immediately blessed by our knowledge and expertise.

  

But I wish the OP would return.

We've established that he's of the opinion that TiVo got money for nothing, but still unresolved is the issue of who in this case, if anyone, got their chicks for free.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

unitron said:


> ....... We've established that he's of the opinion that TiVo got *money for nothing,* but still unresolved is the issue of who in this case, if anyone, got their *chicks for free*.


LOL, nice Dire Straits reference!  I was actually having the same tune in my head the first time I read the subject of this post!


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

unitron said:


> That would prevent people with problems from being immediately blessed by our knowledge and expertise.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Damn, beat me to it.


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## CinciDVR (May 24, 2014)

lessd said:


> Also most Credit cards don't last 3.5 years, so you must have gotten a updated card in that last 3.5 years, how did your Credit Card get updated at TiVo, could only be by you.


You'd be surprised. I've had companies post charges to my credit cards even after the card had expired. I've also had a company - not sure if forum rules allow me to name it so I'll just say it provides satellite radio services - update the expiration date of my card without any input from me. How they did it, I don't know, but the expiration date was updated to the correct new expiration date which was 34 months later. If the new expiration date had been an even number of years later, I could see them getting it right by luck or trial and error, but when it was 2 years and 10 months later, that seems like more than luck.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

CinciDVR said:


> I've also had a company - not sure if forum rules allow me to name it so I'll just say it provides satellite radio services - update the expiration date of my card without any input from me. How they did it, I don't know, but the expiration date was updated to the correct new expiration date which was 34 months later.


I have become so fed up with SiriusXM's conniving ways that I only use pre-paid debit cards with known expiries to pay them. It forces them (and me) to contact each other to create a renewal.

And FWIW, I side with "this is your own fault". You should manage your money better. TiVo is not to blame for this. Nor would I expect them to refund any money.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

CinciDVR said:


> You'd be surprised. I've had companies post charges to my credit cards even after the card had expired. I've also had a company - not sure if forum rules allow me to name it so I'll just say it provides satellite radio services - update the expiration date of my card without any input from me. How they did it, I don't know, but the expiration date was updated to the correct new expiration date which was 34 months later. If the new expiration date had been an even number of years later, I could see them getting it right by luck or trial and error, but when it was 2 years and 10 months later, that seems like more than luck.


WOW never heard of that before, E-Bay just told me my on file card was out of date and they could not charge the money I owned them, I corrected the card, now I will have to make sure I look at all charges very carefully.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

CinciDVR said:


> You'd be surprised. I've had companies post charges to my credit cards even after the card had expired. I've also had a company - not sure if forum rules allow me to name it so I'll just say it provides satellite radio services - update the expiration date of my card without any input from me. How they did it, I don't know, but the expiration date was updated to the correct new expiration date which was 34 months later. If the new expiration date had been an even number of years later, I could see them getting it right by luck or trial and error, but when it was 2 years and 10 months later, that seems like more than luck.


Come to think of it, it did seem like at least one company I deal with was able to get my new credit card info without me having to update.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

trip1eX said:


> Come to think of it, it did seem like at least one company I deal with was able to get my new credit card info without me having to update.


When my cards are updated so is the 3 or 4 digit code, hard for me to think someone could guess both. I wonder if co.s can do this today with the Credit Card problems at Target, etc.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

trip1eX said:


> Come to think of it, it did seem like at least one company I deal with was able to get my new credit card info without me having to update.


Usually the way it works is, they can process a card with just the number. But each additional piece of information they give reduces their transaction fees. So they have a financial incentive NOT to process a card with just the number... but unless they have a company policy against it, they can still do it.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Grakthis said:


> Usually the way it works is, they can process a card with just the number. But each additional piece of information they give reduces their transaction fees. So they have a financial incentive NOT to process a card with just the number... but unless they have a company policy against it, they can still do it.


So your saying if the co is willing to pay a little more money they don't even need your exp. date, *WOW*, for some co.s that will be a great way to increase income as many people don't look that much at their Credit Cards, if they do check it the co. will refund the money and get their fee back, I don't like this if true.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

A recurring charge will continue to process, as long as the card number stays the same and the account is open. The expiration date/CVV only needs to be valid on the first authorization.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

lessd said:


> So your saying if the co is willing to pay a little more money they don't even need your exp. date, *WOW*...I don't like this if true.


it's true. consumer reports online kept sending me renewal notices indicating my card had expired, and i ignored since i wasn't planning on renewing. the next month, they had submitted the charge for a new sub anyway, without using the expiration date (same card number). they've since changed their policy, but there are others willing to do the same.


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## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

I make silly mistakes like that, but I don't tell anyone.... I am too embarrassed.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

replaytv said:


> I make silly mistakes like that, but I don't tell anyone.... I am too embarrassed.


what mistake? they asked me to update my info for renewal, and i ignored them because i didn't want to renew. if they hadn't refunded the charge (and allowed me keep my sub, nice apology), i could have simply disputed with the ccd co.

my mistake was with hulu+ - i cancelled, they kept billing, but i didn't check until almost six monthss later. they agreed it was their fault and refunded the entire six months. not checking was my mistake, and ever since, i keep all recurring charges on a single card, and request a new card number when cancelling any service billed to that card. it's a hassel to update the card info for the other services, but it protects me.

here's another reason to get a new card number - directv, att and other companies hide in the fine print their ability to bill any ccd that's ever been used to pay on your account, whether it's your card or not, at any time they believe you owe them money. let's say you cance the service, you return the equipment, verified they received by ups tracking, but then they bill you hundreds of dollars for "unreturned equipment", and take the money from any debit card ever used to pay your bill, without any additional authorization. search the internet, it's happed to many people, and the ccd cos allow them to get away with it, too.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

NorthAlabama said:


> what mistake? they asked me to update my info for renewal, and i ignored them because i didn't want to renew.


Not always about you, sometimes people post responses to the OP.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

CinciDVR said:


> You'd be surprised. I've had companies post charges to my credit cards even after the card had expired. I've also had a company - not sure if forum rules allow me to name it so I'll just say it provides satellite radio services - update the expiration date of my card without any input from me. How they did it, I don't know, but the expiration date was updated to the correct new expiration date which was 34 months later. If the new expiration date had been an even number of years later, I could see them getting it right by luck or trial and error, but when it was 2 years and 10 months later, that seems like more than luck.


I had XM Sirius charge the same account even though the credit card number had changed!

That one really surprised me.

It hadn't been a problem because I was running a large balance on the card. I decided to pay it off and then BAM, they got the charge through. They are relentless. (or at least their servers are.)


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

waynomo said:


> I had XM Sirius charge the same account even though the credit card number had changed!
> 
> That one really surprised me.
> 
> It hadn't been a problem because I was running a large balance on the card. I decided to pay it off and then BAM, they got the charge through. They are relentless. (or at least their servers are.)


Automatic Charge convenience is becoming a bigger problem than I though.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

scandia101 said:


> Not always about you, sometimes people post responses to the OP.


i know i'm not the first commenter on tcf to attribute a post following mine as sometimes being related, but thanks anyway for the unneeded smart aleck response. :up:


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

NorthAlabama said:


> i know i'm not the first commenter on tcf to attribute a post following mine as sometimes being related, but thanks anyway for the unneeded smart aleck response. :up:


It's a thankless job, but somebody's gotta do it.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

NorthAlabama said:


> i know i'm not the first commenter on tcf to attribute a post following mine as sometimes being related,


And...?

or do you really think that saying other people do it too, is some sort of valid excuse?



> but thanks anyway for the unneeded smart aleck response. :up:


and thanks for the unneeded response to to my "unneeded" response to your undeeded response to replaytv's response to the OP.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

unitron said:


> It's a thankless job, but somebody's gotta do it.


I get thanked by plenty of people.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

scandia101 said:


> And...? or do you really think that saying other people do it too, is some sort of valid excuse?
> 
> and thanks for the unneeded response to to my "unneeded" response to your undeeded response to replaytv's response to the OP.





scandia101 said:


> I get thanked by plenty of people.


who's making excuses? i was calling you out, and thanks for further validating my point. :up:


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## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

NorthAlabama said:


> what mistake? they asked me to update my info for renewal, and i ignored them because i didn't want to renew. if they hadn't refunded the charge (and allowed me keep my sub, nice apology), i could have simply disputed with the ccd co.


I was referring to the original poster, not you, but should have made that plain.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

lessd said:


> So your saying if the co is willing to pay a little more money they don't even need your exp. date, *WOW*, for some co.s that will be a great way to increase income as many people don't look that much at their Credit Cards, if they do check it the co. will refund the money and get their fee back, I don't like this if true.


Right.

Though, like I said, most companies have a policy where they won't process cards unless they have a minimum amount of info. Because if the card turns out to be fraudulent, they are liable for the losses when the CC company reverses them AND they paid a higher fee.

My mechanic asks for everything... the 4 digit, the date, the full name, zip code and area code of my home phone. Because that gets him the LOWEST fees.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

replaytv said:


> I was referring to the original poster, not you, but should have made that plain.


Of course, you were, no need to explain the obvious.


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