# LOST - What They Died For - 5/18/10



## michad (Sep 9, 2002)

Okay I'm loving this. Am I again in the minority?


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I loved it.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

This is what I wanted last week. Answers and reasons why things were happening or needed to happen.

Jack, the new guardian.

I loved the explanation for why Kate's name was crossed off....but then why wasn't Jin and Sun's?


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

michad said:


> Okay I'm loving this. Am I again in the minority?


I liked it. Lost, at its rare best, is not simply clever, but has a core of feeling that this episode did. I felt empathy for both brothers, which I think is at the core of any real meaning to this mess.

BTW I'm not buying Jack as the new Jacob.


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## brermike (Jun 1, 2006)

I loved it, too. I really liked last week's too, but I like it even more with seeing tonight's episode. Now that we've seen the history, seeing Jacob explaining thing to the losties felt so emotional. They were basically brought there to save the world or die trying.

Love this show and can't believe it will be over in 5 days!


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

betts4 said:


> This is what I wanted last week. Answers and reasons why things were happening or needed to happen.
> 
> Jack, the new guardian.
> 
> I loved the explanation for why Kate's name was crossed off....but then why wasn't Jin and Sun's?


Maybe their daughter is the proposed candidate?

Fun episode, I don't know what I'm going to do next Tuesday


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## brermike (Jun 1, 2006)

betts4 said:


> This is what I wanted last week. Answers and reasons why things were happening or needed to happen.
> 
> Jack, the new guardian.
> 
> I loved the explanation for why Kate's name was crossed off....but then why wasn't Jin and Sun's?


I think this tells us that the Kwon was Jin since Sun was a mother. Jacob dud have mommy issues afterall. He'd want mothers to stay with their kids if possible. Probably why Littleton was crossed off, too.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

michad said:


> Okay I'm loving this. Am I again in the minority?


Nope, much better than last week in my opinion... Some solid answers/reasoning, and forward motion on all fronts (significantly in the sideways realm--can't wait to see how it all culminates). Kind of surprised that Widmore died, but glad it was Ben that did it, just because those two kids have hated each other for years. Speaking of Ben, I seriously hope he dies. Any chance he had for redemption died when he not only sold Widmore out, but killed him himself, then offered to kill everyone else. He needs to die.



betts4 said:


> I loved the explanation for why Kate's name was crossed off....but then why wasn't Jin and Sun's?


Good question. I don't know if I'm buying that it could be Jeon, since everyone else was in the present--it's not like he had a bunch of other future people on the list. Would be weird to have a bunch of names for now, but then put one for the future. I also think it's interesting that candidates can't kill themselves, but Jin did just that. Kind of makes me lean towards either a plot hole, or Sun was the candidate all along.

Not sure I'm buying Jack either--that was way too easy. I'm fine with it if it is though. And now that we know more about Mib, I no longer think there will have be an "evil" replacement for him to battle with Jack for eternity--MIB was a mistake--an accident. It is not necessary for there to be immortal good and immortal bad guys locked in eternal battle.

Can't wait for sunday.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Loved it here too. Things are progressing along nicely. Love Jack as the new Jacob.

Richard sure took a fall, but I'm betting he's still alive. He can't really die can he?


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I think any of them around the fire would be easy picks. We already knew they were chosen ones. Hugo, Sawyer, Desmond, Kate, any of them could have been guardians. Now, if suddenly Jacob turned to Miles and asked HIM, it would be a twist.


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

I loved the scene by the fire, especially what Jacob said to Kate. We've all been speculating for weeks on whether she was or wasn't a candidate because she was crossed out on the wall and not the lighthouse, and Jacob simply says... "Hey, the job is still yours if you want it."


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

I guess this is the ultimate way of showing that Jack is now completely a man of faith instead of a man of science


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Jacob is burning the ashes. Can ashes burn? Why does he show up to Hurley (and others) as the little boy and then to everyone by the fire as the older Jacob. 

How does this affect the flash sideways? will it change Jacks?


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

If anyone can see him is Jacob really dead?!!


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

gossamer88 said:


> If anyone can see him is Jacob really dead?!!


That's the last of him, in the ashes.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Loved that Hurley knows everything in the flash sideways. Loved him saying "You didn't tell me Anna Lucia would be here!"

I predict that sideways Locke will make his way to the main reality, and suddenly MiB will be in trouble, possessing the form of a body that's still alive.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I am going to miss this show with all it's questions and all the debate and speculation that it caused. It was fun!


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## JLWINE (Jun 18, 2002)

Yet another great episode--I will be sorry to see this show go.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

jking said:


> I loved the scene by the fire, especially what Jacob said to Kate. We've all been speculating for weeks on whether she was or wasn't a candidate because she was crossed out on the wall and not the lighthouse, and Jacob simply says... "Hey, the job is still yours if you want it."


I cheered for that, it was in so many ways the perfect answer to "why isn't Kate a candidate?"



Philosofy said:


> Loved that Hurley knows everything in the flash sideways. Loved him saying "You didn't tell me Anna Lucia would be here!"


That got another cheer from me, I was totally jazzed that A: she was there, and B: Hurley is in on the plan.
And then there was the Rousseau scenes, I was so glad they brought Mira back for that, and Ben getting all weepy.

Is it Sunday yet? is it?
how about now, is it Sunday?


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

mrdazzo7 said:


> And now that we know more about Mib, I no longer think there will have be an "evil" replacement for him to battle with Jack for eternity--MIB was a mistake--an accident. It is not necessary for there to be immortal good and immortal bad guys locked in eternal battle.


Jack vs Ben for eternity?


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Is Richard pretty well gone? Smushed?


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## Dad (Oct 27, 2001)

Oh, Ben, are you good or are you bad? Does he really want to help Flocke or did he just want Widmore dead? If he is really helping Flocke to get the island and just found that Flocke wants it destroyed now, does he flip again? Do the sideways lives have any bearing on the Island or is it only way (Jack's cut on his neck). Can Bens evilness on the island impact Ben hooking up with Rousseau and getting Danielle back?

Gonna miss this show bad!


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## T-Wolves (Aug 22, 2000)

Loved seeing Ana Lucia, Rousseau (she cleans up nice!), and Alex again! For some reason, seeing those old familiar faces makes me emotional. This show takes you places other shows never have.

It had to be Jack -- when he left the Island before, he was unhappy and knew they had to come back. And just leaving the main Island a few episodes ago, he knew he had to go back. He was definitely *destined *to be the next protector of the Island.

I'm not buying Ben being a bad guy -- I think he's biding his time and waiting for a chance to get revenge on MIB-Locke for manipulating him into killing Jacob.

Interesting that we didn't really find out what happened to Richard. I would be surprised if that was his death scene.

Loved Sawyer's comment about Jack being the new Jacob (paraphrasing): "And I thought he had a God complex before..."

I asked in last week's thread how the "initiation" could be done with Jacob dead. I guess I have my answer! For one episode anyhow, Jacob put some logs on the fire and came back to life!? It was very satisfying that the Losties finally got to confront Jacob face-to-face.

No idea why they used the Jacob child actor in one scene and Mark Pellegrino in the next. Odd.

I was a bit surprised that Locke in the flash-sideways now says that he wants Jack to fix him. There's not enough time left in the show to do that. I wonder how that figures into the ending.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

MikeMar said:


> Jack vs Ben for eternity?


Oooohhh. Could be.

I was wondering why Jack would have to keep protecting the island if they killed MIB. Ben may well be the answer to that.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Can't believe Lost is almost over..

Great episode.

Why could Ben kill Widmore now?

Laughed out loud when I thought James called him Flocke. Now though I think he just said "if Locke", not "if Flocke"..

When Desmond told them he'd free them, but they needed to do what he told them too, I thought of MiB freeing Richard. I half expected to hear him tell them that he was glad to see them out of those chains.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

mqpickles said:


> Oooohhh. Could be.
> 
> I was wondering why Jack would have to keep protecting the island if they killed MIB. Ben may well be the answer to that.


Maybe the same reason that Mother and the people before her had to? People will still find the island..


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

So MiB wants to destroy the island. In the sideways, it is. 

I can't wait to see how it all comes together.


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## vman (Feb 9, 2001)

Also loved it - especially compared to last week. It does seem Jack replacing Jacob was a bit too straightforward - something tells me Jack doesn't last long in the role and one of the others replaces him (perhaps Jack sacrifices himself to stop/kill MIB and one of the others assumes the "protector" role the mom had).


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## Queue (Apr 7, 2009)

Who will be Jack's Richard?


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

I get the feeling that Jacob had the worst time of any of the Island's protectors. Allison Janey probably just went mad from being alive for so long. And Allison didn't have Jacob's method of picking a successor. Does anyone else think the same?


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

No way will it be Jack. 
There's gonna be a twist before it ends. 
I predict.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Thank you Lost.

I knew you wouldn't let me down. I knew it.



Totally awesome. It was like they consulted me before deciding what to show this episode.

I never gave a rat's patooty about Richard. Buh bye.

I loved how Jacob told them he selected them because they were flawed and how Kate was scratched off when she became a mom.

Rather than draw out the "who will take over for Jacob?" question, I loved that Jack quickly volunteered. Perfectly done.

Ben's "so you said there were other people to kill?" -- great line, great performance.


Good stuff. Enjoyed it thoroughly.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Philosofy said:


> Loved that Hurley knows everything in the flash sideways. Loved him saying "You didn't tell me Anna Lucia would be here!"
> 
> I predict that sideways Locke will make his way to the main reality, and suddenly MiB will be in trouble, possessing the form of a body that's still alive.


I like that. :up:

And perhaps Hugo brings him. Hugo and Desmond bring Locke back, which gives Jack the opening he needs to kill MIB.

I was kind of expecting the "fireside gang" to agree to all be the guardians collectively. None of them have much reason to get back to the real world, and I expected them to come to an agreement that they'd do it together. But actually I think that's a cop out conclusion.


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## vman (Feb 9, 2001)

Couple other thoughts -

Thinking about it more, seems like Ben's killing Widmore could have been "good" - to keep MIB from learning too much from Widmore (and it was weird Widmore totally caved liked that and started spilling the beans).

Also not sure where Richard, Ben and Miles have been for the past few days (seems like it has been at least 2 days since they split from Jack etc to take on their "blow up the plane" mission - while they were apparently hiking to Dharmaville, Jack and friends found MIB's camp, snuck away, went to the other island, got captured/freed, went to the plane, went back to the sub and commandeered it, got the sub blown up, and swam back to the main island. And all this with Hurley in tow! Ben et al are not fast hikers!


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## vman (Feb 9, 2001)

But I still loved the episode!


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## HDTivoDesire (Apr 6, 2003)

That's it! I'm out. Season pass deleted.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Locke tells Ben that Ben gets to keep the island. Then he tells Ben he's going to destroy the island. What's in it for Ben if there's no island?


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

aindik said:


> Locke tells Ben that Ben gets to keep the island. Then he tells Ben he's going to destroy the island. What's in it for Ben if there's no island?


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## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

I was pretty vocal in my dislike of last week's episode. You know what? This episode actually made up for, and even validated last week's.

Bravo. Can't wait for Sunday.


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

I lived in these houses 30 years before you did. Otherwise known as last week. 

I love Miles.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Bryanmc said:


> I lived in these houses 30 years before you did. Otherwise known as last week.
> 
> I love Miles.


That too was a great line. :up:

...and perhaps it's because I think I'd be like that, but I'm surprised more characters on the show don't have more WTF type comments like Miles does.


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## desulliv (Aug 22, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> Can't believe Lost is almost over..
> 
> Great episode.
> 
> ...


When I heard the same from James, i went back and listened to it a couple of times. Finally turned on CC. It reads: "if Locke".


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

mqpickles said:


> Oooohhh. Could be.
> 
> I was wondering why Jack would have to keep protecting the island if they killed MIB. Ben may well be the answer to that.


Well, there's always Mankind.

Hurley: "Dude, where have you been?"
Jacob: "Vancouver."

I'm actually a little disappointed that it wasn't Hurley but I guess that when it came down to it, he didn't want the job.

And Ben, Ben, Ben, Ben.
Still such a weasel.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

desulliv said:


> When I heard the same from James, i went back and listened to it a couple of times. Finally turned on CC. It reads: "if Locke".


Naw, he was saying "F Locke".


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

T-Wolves said:


> I was a bit surprised that Locke in the flash-sideways now says that he wants Jack to fix him. There's not enough time left in the show to do that. I wonder how that figures into the ending.


Not only do I think there is time left to do it, but the surgery and subsequent first step of sideways Locke will be the main trigger for him to remember the island, which will be the main catalyst for the final defeat of MIB. However that happens.

Desmonds goal is to get all the candidates to remember the island. His running Locke down leads him to see Jack again and finally consent to the surgery.

My guess is Locke remembering the island is the key to everything.

-smak-


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## T-Wolves (Aug 22, 2000)

smak said:


> Not only do I think there is time left to do it, but the surgery and subsequent first step of sideways Locke will be the main trigger for him to remember the island, which will be the main catalyst for the final defeat of MIB. However that happens....-smak-


You might be right -- I thought that all the Losties would be gathering at the "concert" that night, but I guess we only know for sure that Jack, David, David's Mom, maybe Claire, Desmond, and Kate will be at the concert. We don't know where Hurley and Sayid are heading. I thought that Sawyer (and Miles) would appear in pursuit of the "escaped" prisoners.

You have to think they'll show us this "concert" if Desmond needs to take Kate to it, and we're supposedly going to see David's Mother at it. But I suppose they could show the concert early in the finale and then skip ahead a while to Locke's surgery.

Or maybe Jack fixes Locke's back right after their conversation in his office?


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Boy, Jack is going to be ticked at himself for wrecking the lighthouse when he needs to start looking for his own replacement.


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

When Ben was off the Island he paid a visit to Whidmore who asked if he was going to kill him. Ben said "You know I can't do that. I'm going to kill your daughter". 
So if Ben couldn't kill Whidmore then, why can he now? Unless rules don't mean anything.

By the way, jog my memory. What happened to Miles?


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

jamesbobo said:


> When Ben was off the Island he paid a visit to Whidmore who asked if he was going to kill him. Ben said "You know I can't do that. I'm going to kill your daughter".
> So if Ben couldn't kill Whidmore then, why can he now? Unless rules don't mean anything.
> 
> By the way, jog my memory. What happened to Miles?


When Alex was killed Ben said that he (Widmore) broke the rules. So I guess the rules can be broken or they misinterpreted them, somehow. Or maybe they weren't rules at all but the ramblings of a crazy old woman. Or maybe Widmore isn't all dead yet.

So, as someone already brought up, the Island is destroyed in the sideways reality, and fLocke wants to destroy it in the other one (what are we calling it, anyway?) So what does that mean, exactly? MiB still finds a loophole and kills Jacob then leaves? The sideways reality didn't seem all that bad compared to the body count in the main line. Maybe smokey simply cannot exist without the Island, and when he tried (tries?) to leave he will simply return to the light and that will be that.


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## mmilton80 (Jul 28, 2005)

Can't wait for the concert on Sunday!

I wonder if burning Locke's body will make Flocke move on.

Notice that Jacob blessed a pool of water. This seems to open the door for another candidate to step in if Jack does not perform his duties (or to relieve Jack from doing so). It could also lead to a take on the book Tuck Everlasting.

Looking forward to Sunday.


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

wprager said:


> Or maybe Widmore isn't all dead yet.


There's a thought. Maybe Ben shot him knowing that he can't kill him, but he can try to stop him from giving Flocke the information he wanted.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Now, that was a good episode. I'm still not thrilled with the "light in the center of the island" stuff but that's ok.

I have a hard time believing that Jack will still be the island's guardian after the final episode.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

What's Desmond's goal in the sideways reality? To destroy it? Once he makes people remember, then what?

If Hurley remembers who Anna Lucia is, does he also remember that in the Island reality Libby is dead? He can't possibly want that.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

I'm glad I've got Monday off from work. I wish it was a week. It was hard enough watching this last regular episode of LOST. The finale is going to wear me out. I'm so very sad to see it go.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

cheesesteak said:


> Now, that was a good episode. I'm still not thrilled with the "*light in the center of the island*" stuff but that's ok.
> 
> I have a hard time believing that Jack will still be the island's guardian after the final episode.


Maybe it's "Beta".


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Fool Me Twice said:


> I'm glad I've got Monday off from work. I wish it was a week. It was hard enough watching this last regular episode of LOST. The finale is going to wear me out. I'm so very sad to see it go.


Monday is a stat holiday in most parts of Canada (Victoria Day), so I'm covered


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

vman said:


> Also loved it - especially compared to last week. It does seem Jack replacing Jacob was a bit too straightforward - something tells me Jack doesn't last long in the role and one of the others replaces him (perhaps Jack sacrifices himself to stop/kill MIB and one of the others assumes the "protector" role the mom had).


If what they show'd in the flash sideways that the island is destroyed, then there won't be a NEED for a protector. I think that's how it's going to end. Island sinking and everyone goes into the Flashsideways life.


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## sshedlock (May 14, 2004)

brermike said:


> I think this tells us that the Kwon was Jin since Sun was a mother. Jacob dud have mommy issues afterall. He'd want mothers to stay with their kids if possible. Probably why Littleton was crossed off, too.


This hit me another way (But I am probably wrong). All of the candidates were flawed, but Kate was taken off when she became a mother. Is it possible that this help fix her flaw, hence why she was crossed off?


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I'd like to see Vincent in the sideways universe.


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## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

It's odd to me that the cave was actually Jacobs, and not MiB as many have theorized... so Jacob had both the lighthouse and the cave?

Also, as protector, Jack will now be able to go off island like Jacob.. and be on the island.. seems like a good gig to me...


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## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

Anyone else think Locke's surgery won't go so well? If he codes right in the middle of it, that would pretty much qualify as a near death experience. That's going to be the trigger IMO.


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## Rinkdog (Dec 21, 2005)

No way does Widmore trust that Ben won't sell him out to Locke. Makes no sense.


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> Laughed out loud when I thought James called him Flocke. Now though I think he just said "if Locke", not "if Flocke"..


I didn't LOL but my brian did do a "Hey now!" when he said it and I had to jump back because I missed about 20 seconds of show while I processed what had happened there.


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## mmilton80 (Jul 28, 2005)

scheckeNYK said:


> Anyone else think Locke's surgery won't go so well? If he codes right in the middle of it, that would pretty much qualify as a near death experience. That's going to be the trigger IMO.


I wonder if Jack will make a small incision in Locke's kidney sac, telling Flocke to let everyone off the island (but Jack). Then Jack and Flocke end up alone on the island...Jack protecting the island from Flocke for eternity (or as long as he can).


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

scheckeNYK said:


> Anyone else think Locke's surgery won't go so well? If he codes right in the middle of it, that would pretty much qualify as a near death experience. That's going to be the trigger IMO.


Wouldn't him getting hit by Desmond's car qualify as a near death experience? I also wondered if the plane crash he had when he was piloting wouldn't ALSO qualify? But I'm not quite sure when that happened, pre or post his time on the island.


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## whitson77 (Nov 10, 2002)

I died laughing when Desmond started his car and Ben yelled, "Don't you dare."

That was one of the funniest things in Lost.

I love Miles, but I have a feeling Ben being able to contact him with a walkie is a very bad thing for his future. He was genius when they asked him where he was going, "I'll be running through the woods..."


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## ronsch (Sep 7, 2001)

Put me in the camp that says Jack becoming the protector was way too easy and straightforward. I'm also in the camp that says that Ben is just pretending to help MiB.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

ronsch said:


> Put me in the camp that says Jack becoming the protector was way too easy and straightforward. I'm also in the camp that says that Ben is just pretending to help MiB.


I agree with you on the first.

Jack won't be the permanent protector there'll be a twist.

OTOH, Ben as the permanent MIB replacement seems plausible to me. (Meaning Ben isn't just _pretending_ to help MIB/Flocke).

We'll see Sunday!


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

whitson77 said:


> I died laughing when Desmond started his car and Ben yelled, "Don't you dare."
> 
> That was one of the funniest things in Lost.
> 
> I love Miles, but I have a feeling Ben being able to contact him with a walkie is a very bad thing for his future. He was genius when they asked him where he was going, "I'll be running through the woods..."


Ben is only out for Ben. Giving Miles up to Locke doesn't get Ben anything, especially if he now wants to save the Island for himself.

I'm not even sure killing Widmore was Ben looking out for himself though. That may have been pure revenge.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I almost did the Happy Dance when Flocke killed Zoe.

Widmore's death was kind of uneventful for such a power player.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> I almost did the Happy Dance when Flocke killed Zoe.
> 
> Widmore's death was kind of uneventful for such a power player.


Widmore's role in this whole thing still perplexes me. Was he really working for Jacob? Ben said something like, you don't even KNOW Jacob!! I agree, for such a power player, his part in the whole scheme seems a bit lame. Yes, I know he was responsible for bringing back Desmond, but it still doesn't hit me the right way...

We shall see!!

Is it Sunday yet?


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## thenightfly42 (Mar 5, 2002)

T-Wolves said:


> I'm not buying Ben being a bad guy -- I think he's biding his time and waiting for a chance to get revenge on MIB-Locke for manipulating him into killing Jacob.


Ben, at this point in the story, flipped halfway to bad when he remembered how his daughter was murdered, and seeing Whidmore completed that. I don't think that FLocke really had to promise him anything at that point, he was ready to go along with him. There's still a possibility he may flip again before the show is over, but I doubt it.


aindik said:


> Locke tells Ben that Ben gets to keep the island. Then he tells Ben he's going to destroy the island. What's in it for Ben if there's no island?


I was wondering that as well. I was surprised that FLocke admitted that his promise was a lie so quickly. Is he losing his cool?

Another question; where's the C4? Does Miles have it?

And a comment: back at the beginning of the series, people were assuming that Hurley was going to die, because the "fat funny guy" is always targeted for death. I'm really glad that he's still there, entering the final episode.

(When did Desmond meet up with Hurley in the flash-sideways?)


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Funny, I don't think I've anticipated something to watch on TV as much as this since Game 7 of the 1994 Stanley Cup Finals. I will NOT pick up the phone, or answer the door, or, perhaps even talk to my wife (she's not a Lost fan) until this is over at 11:30


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

thenightfly42 said:


> (When did Desmond meet up with Hurley in the flash-sideways?)


Mr. Cluck's.


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

Whoa, I just had a thought. Who changed the most dramatically throughout all of LOST? It's gotta be Locke who was an underacheiver with no confidence at all, who went on to walk and then became the most powerful part of the show. What if this WHOLE SHOW, from beginning to end, was just something that Locke dreamed while he was under the anesthesia that Jack is about to give him during his surgery. 

Just a thought....


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> Funny, I don't think I've anticipated something to watch on TV as much as this since Game 7 of the 1994 Stanley Cup Finals. I will NOT pick up the phone, or answer the door, or, perhaps even talk to my wife (she's not a Lost fan) until this is over at 11:30


Hell, those are my standard rules for Law & Order reruns.


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

I loved the episode, but wasn't thrilled with the wrap on Widmore. I thought the explanation of "Jacob came to me and convinced me to change my ways" was a bit too neat, plus I'm left still wondering what his initial purpose was. I guess, back in the freighter days, Widmore's assumed plan (according to Ben, I think) to "kill every living thing on the island" was his way to get access to the light. 

On a similar note, help me remember this correctly: When Michael was about to blow up the freighter, Christian (who we now know was MIB) showed up and said something along the lines of, "You can go now," a line relating to Michael's inability to kill himself because he still had to serve a purpose. So...how did Christian (MIB) get on the freighter? Is that a fair question considering what we now know about the smoke and it's inability to travel over water?

Sorry to get sidetracked on an episode I loved, but this was bothering me and I need to get past it.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

jradford said:


> On a similar note, help me remember this correctly: When Michael was about to blow up the freighter, Christian (who we now know was MIB) showed up and said something along the lines of, "You can go now," a line relating to Michael's inability to kill himself because he still had to serve a purpose. So...how did Christian (MIB) get on the freighter? Is that a fair question considering what we now know about the smoke and it's inability to travel over water?
> 
> Sorry to get sidetracked on an episode I loved, but this was bothering me and I need to get past it.


It's a mystery, as is Christian's appearance to Sun and Frank on the main island while MIB/Locke was on Hydra Island.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

sshedlock said:


> This hit me another way (But I am probably wrong). All of the candidates were flawed, but Kate was taken off when she became a mother. Is it possible that this help fix her flaw, hence why she was crossed off?


I think that would work. I also am thinking it ties into the whole bit about the island not being a good places for mothers, hence babies dying or not being born there.



Turtleboy said:


> Ben is only out for Ben. Giving Miles up to Locke doesn't get Ben anything, especially if he now wants to save the Island for himself.
> 
> I'm not even sure killing Widmore was Ben looking out for himself though. That may have been pure revenge.


Yes. He started getting back to the Ben we all know and hated when he saw the grave of his daughter and remembered it was Widmore's man that did it.

I still can't believe just in one second Richard is gone.



jradford said:


> On a similar note, help me remember this correctly: When Michael was about to blow up the freighter, Christian (who we now know was MIB) showed up and said something along the lines of, "You can go now," a line relating to Michael's inability to kill himself because he still had to serve a purpose. So...how did Christian (MIB) get on the freighter? Is that a fair question considering what we now know about the smoke and it's inability to travel over water?


That is a good point. Question is, was there a boat he could have traveled on? I don't remember. But that may be how it happened.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I am thinking the lack of pregnancy on the island is somehow either a MiB or Jacob thing. Or heck, maybe an Island thing. 

I mean, thinking back to how they came to be - by an accident of the woman washing up to shore and being 9 months preggo. The babies lived - just as Aaron did, and just as Alex and...wasn't there someone else....that guy that Charlie killed? The women were already pregnant when they came to the island.

And for that matter, Sun was too. Maybe that is why Jin didn't mind so much dying with Sun instead of staying alive to care for their daughter. It really wasn't his.....


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

betts4 said:


> I still can't believe just in one second Richard is gone.


If he is dead, it kinda sucks that they never did explain how he could just suddenly appear out of nowhere. Maybe that's one of the things that was filmed specially for the DVD--the "original scripted content" that they may or may not have finished filming (I'm trying hard to remain spoiler free for the finale, so it's fuzzy to me what's going on there.) I'm really looking forward to that blu-ray complete set.


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

T-Wolves said:


> You might be right -- I thought that all the Losties would be gathering at the "concert" that night, but I guess we only know for sure that Jack, David, David's Mom, maybe Claire, Desmond, and Kate will be at the concert.


My guess is Charlie will be at the concert also, as I'm sure it will be the Drive Shaft concert.


----------



## Queue (Apr 7, 2009)

Could Ben be double crossing the smoke monster? And what happened to Miles? I thought he went into the closet with Widmore and the girl but when the door is opened it's only Widmore and Terry (is that her name?).

And why did Ben give the walkie talkie to Miles? I think he's playing a game against smokey but used the opportunity to kill Widmore himself. But why did he? A couple of seasons ago he popped up in Widmore's bedroom and couldn't kill him then because of "the rules".


----------



## Queue (Apr 7, 2009)

And how can Ana Lucia not be ready? She's dead in the island side of things. Is there a 3rd alternate something?


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

betts4 said:


> I think that would work. I also am thinking it ties into the whole bit about the island not being a good places for mothers, hence babies dying or not being born there.


I think the candidates are people who, if they left the real world, nobody would miss them. People who lead, as Jacob said, "lonely existences." That used to be true for Kate, until it wasn't.

Still makes no sense out of Sun or Jin.

I also thought the deaths of Richard and Widmore were remarkably anticlimactic.

Desmond calling Jack to lie to him about Oceanic finding the casket was interesting. But if Desmond knew about the concert, why would he need to do that? Belt and suspenders?

Also, Miles will be at the concert (it's at his dad's museum - is his dad still Dr. Chang, who we saw in Hurley's sideways but was totally the wrong age?), and so will Charlotte. Miles invited Sawyer, who will probably reluctantly show up.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Dnamertz said:


> My guess is Charlie will be at the concert also, as I'm sure it will be the Drive Shaft concert.


Perhaps, but my thought was more along the lines of it being a concert involving Faraday and his mother.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Yeah, I don't think it's a Drive Shaft concert. It's at a museum, and both Miles and Kate are dressing up for it.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

wprager said:


> When Alex was killed Ben said that he (Widmore) broke the rules.


No, actually, he said aloud "He changed the rules!", not broke, and we don't know who the "he" was...


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

betts4 said:


> I am thinking the lack of pregnancy on the island is somehow either a MiB or Jacob thing. Or heck, maybe an Island thing.


I'm pretty sure it's been virtually established that it's a result of the Incident...


jkeegan said:


> No, actually, he said aloud "He changed the rules!", not broke, and we don't know who the "he" was...


We also don't know what rules he's referring to. I don't think this is a Jacob-style rules of nature rule, but rather an agreement between Ben and Charles that in their little feud, family was off-limits. When Keaney killed Alex, he changed the rules so that Ben could now kill Penny.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

jamesbobo said:


> There's a thought. Maybe Ben shot him knowing that he can't kill him, but he can try to stop him from giving Flocke the information he wanted.


Ooh. Like.


----------



## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

MikeMar said:


> Jack vs Ben for eternity?


My thoughts exactly.


----------



## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

Widmore and what he's been up to make zero sense, I hope they clear something up about that in the finale. 

The notion that Jacob speaks a few words into a water source and Jack drinks it making him "like Jacob" is pretty silly, goes along with most of the storyline the last season or so I guess. So now Jack can't be killed by smokeLocke, which makes Ben's Sayid-like turn to a cold-stone-killer required eh. 

This was better than last week's dreck, and I'm looking forward to the finale to see if the writers can pull one out of the hat. I had similar hopes for BSG and wasn't rewarded, hopefully the Lost writers can do better


----------



## Mike Wells (Mar 9, 2000)

Great episode - Can't wait till Sunday.

I also don't buy Jack as the protector. If he _is_, I don't like that payoff. Our entire story has been, ultimately, about the choice of a replacement for Jacob. Jacob brought them here for that purpose.

So, in the end it comes down to the few survivors sitting around a fire till one jumps up and volunteers? I don't buy it. I expected Jacob to at least poll the others to see who would also take up the job. Maybe pull out a bag of rocks, all black with one white rock and have them draw or something. "the island has spoken" maybe. (or not - that would be cheesy)


----------



## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

aindik said:


> I think the candidates are people who, if they left the real world, nobody would miss them. People who lead, as Jacob said, "lonely existences." That used to be true for Kate, until it wasn't.
> 
> Still makes no sense out of Sun or Jin.
> 
> ...


Yeah, pretty sure Jacob even said something to this effect, that one of the reasons they were chosen (other than having flaws) is that they are all basically alone. Kate having Aaron meant she wasn't alone anymore, and that someone in the real world needed her.

Only sense I can make out of the Sun and Jin thing is that only one of them was apparently the candidate. So whichever one it was didn't have to be crossed off as long as their daughter still had the other one. Obviously both of them getting killed wasn't in the plan, but maybe that's why Kwon wasn't crossed off.

I suspect the quick deaths of Widmore and Richard (if they are both dead) is the writers' way of telling us everyone just doesn't get to go out in a blaze of glory. Sometimes the main actors get killed quickly just like the redshirts too.

Yeah, interesting would be the word about Desmond's call to Jack. Interesting that absolutely nothing else was said about the casket, Jack going to pick it up, or anything, the whole rest of the episode. Am I wrong, or is the next time we see Jack when he is hammering on the keyboard when Locke comes into his office?

Miles will be there. And Sawyer. And David and his Mom (Juliet) too.


----------



## DrZoidberg42 (Oct 6, 2005)

stevieleej said:


> Are Rose & Benard still alive? I could see them being the island keepers.


They have been living together on the island with Vincent at their old camp I believe.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I'm pretty sure it's been virtually established that it's a result of the Incident...


Maybe but it seemed in last weeks episode that the fake mom was happy to have some babies around. Maybe because she now had someone to train, as her mom did (who may have been pregnant when she got there.....centuries of pregnant women coming to the island). I have to go back and watch again, but were there any children shown in the village that MiB goes to live in?


----------



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

I don't think Jack will get a chance to operate on Locke. They'll be brought to the Island, and the Island will heal him.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Philosofy said:


> I don't think Jack will get a chance to operate on Locke. They'll be brought to the Island, and the Island will heal him.


The Island is on the bottom of the ocean in that timeline, which happened sometime after Ben was there as a kid, and left with his father. Probably when the bomb exploded.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Fool Me Twice said:


> It's a mystery, as is Christian's appearance to Sun and Frank on the main island while MIB/Locke was on Hydra Island.


Mystery, agreed. Meaning the writers don't necessarily think through everything. Which is understandable.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Dnamertz said:


> My guess is Charlie will be at the concert also, as I'm sure it will be the Drive Shaft concert.


I thought it was Jack's kid's concert. And the Japanese Temple dude's kid is in it too.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Queue said:


> Could Ben be double crossing the smoke monster? And what happened to Miles? I thought he went into the closet with Widmore and the girl but when the door is opened it's only Widmore and Terry (is that her name?).
> 
> And why did Ben give the walkie talkie to Miles? I think he's playing a game against smokey but used the opportunity to kill Widmore himself. But why did he? A couple of seasons ago he popped up in Widmore's bedroom and couldn't kill him then because of "the rules".


Nope, Miles fled.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

aindik said:


> I think the candidates are people who, if they left the real world, nobody would miss them. People who lead, as Jacob said, "lonely existences." That used to be true for Kate, until it wasn't.
> 
> Still makes no sense out of Sun or Jin.


... and if you go back and look, I'm not sure if it makes sense for others too.

Was everyone who's name was in the cave a loner at the time they came to the island?

Heck, even Hurley still has a mom who loves him and depends on him emotionally.


----------



## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

Dad said:


> Oh, Ben, are you good or are you bad?...





Turtleboy said:


> Ben is only out for Ben...


I agree with TB. I think Ben is just intelligent. When FLocke approached him when he was sitting on the porch, Ben was probably pretty sure Flocke would know if he were lying about anything, and kill him outright.



Bryanmc said:


> I lived in these houses 30 years before you did. Otherwise known as last week.
> 
> I love Miles.





whitson77 said:


> I love Miles, {...} He was genius when they asked him where he was going, "I'll be running through the woods..."


Another good one was when Richard said he was going to just talk to Flocke, and Miles replies "Good luck with that...rolleyes".

Miles: a (proven,) grounded realist!



aindik said:


> I think the candidates are people who, if they left the real world, nobody would miss them. People who lead, as Jacob said, "lonely existences." That used to be true for Kate, until it wasn't.
> 
> Still makes no sense out of Sun or Jin...


I don't think that's it at all. Jack is a very talented surgeon. Sun is/was the daughter of a powerful business man. Of course someone would miss them. The candidates were just flawed with their own problems...


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I think they're doing a good job of explaining enough, which is good, and not too much, which is lame.

For example,



> The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together.


 = Good.



> QUI-GON : Midi-chlorians are a microcopic lifeform that reside within allliving cells and communicates with the Force.
> ANAKIN : They live inside of me?
> QUI-GON : In your cells. We are symbionts with the midi-chlorians.
> ANAKIN : Symbionts?
> QUI-GON : Life forms living together for mutual advantage. Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually speak to you, telling you the will of the Force


 = Lame.


----------



## Ekims (Oct 18, 2002)

uncdrew said:


> I thought it was Jack's kid's concert. And the Japanese Temple dude's kid is in it too.


This is what I asssumed, which is why Jack's kid's mom will be there. Julie Bowen is in Hawaii anyway for filming Modern Family, perhaps for this very reason..


----------



## mmilton80 (Jul 28, 2005)

It is interesting that Jacob said that they were chosen because they alone in the real world. And in the sideway world, mostly everyone seems to have a connection with someone.


----------



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Turtleboy said:


> The Island is on the bottom of the ocean in that timeline, which happened sometime after Ben was there as a kid, and left with his father. Probably when the bomb exploded.


I mean the Sideways cast will come to the regular timeline Island. They will jump to the other reality where the Island is.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

betts4 said:


> Maybe but it seemed in last weeks episode that the fake mom was happy to have some babies around. Maybe because she now had someone to train, as her mom did (who may have been pregnant when she got there.....centuries of pregnant women coming to the island). I have to go back and watch again, but were there any children shown in the village that MiB goes to live in?


There were normal pregnancies right up through the 70s. It's only the post-Incident period that has the childbirth problem.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

betts4 said:


> I am thinking the lack of pregnancy on the island is somehow either a MiB or Jacob thing. Or heck, maybe an Island thing.


I felt they already addressed the pregnancy thing..

Up until the bomb went off, people were having babies just fine there.

Juliete(damn still can't remember the spelling) was brought to the island to figure out why women die during pregnancy on the island. She later flashes back in time to the 70s, falls into the well that was the Swan station, hits the bomb with a rock, and..... causes the very thing that she was brought there to figure out.

I think the bomb going off made it such that pregnant women die. They talked about her findings, where the baby's cells would become to aggressive or something. I think that's because of the bomb. Wasn't a problem before the bomb (Ethan was born) and it's an elegant story resolution and an ironic twist to have HER be the cause she was looking for.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> I felt they already addressed the pregnancy thing..
> 
> Up until the bomb went off, people were having babies just fine there.
> 
> ...


Not all pregnant women die in childbirth. To die in childbirth, you have to have been on the island both at conception time (why Claire didn't die) and at birth (why Sun didn't die). That doesn't sound like something that can be caused by a bomb in any normal scientific sense.


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

Philosofy said:


> I predict that sideways Locke will make his way to the main reality, and suddenly MiB will be in trouble, possessing the form of a body that's still alive.


I wonder if MIB needed Locke to be dead not because he couldn't take his form earlier, but because whoever's form he took would be able to kill him. It will be interesting if the loophole that allowed him to kill Jacob also allowed him to be killed.



jkeegan said:


> Laughed out loud when I thought James called him Flocke. Now though I think he just said "if Locke", not "if Flocke"..





desulliv said:


> When I heard the same from James, i went back and listened to it a couple of times. Finally turned on CC. It reads: "if Locke".





SeanC said:


> I didn't LOL but my brian did do a "Hey now!" when he said it and I had to jump back because I missed about 20 seconds of show while I processed what had happened there.


I did a mental double-take. I was watching, then all of the suddenly thought, "Wait, did he just say Flocke?" After jumping back, I realized the same thing you guys did. Of all the people to give MIB a name, Sawyer would be the one to do it, so it wouldn't have surprised me if he had.

I'm still unclear as to whether the entire sideways universe is Jacob's failsafe or Desmond is Jacob's failsafe within the sideways universe created by something else. Given MIB's plan to destroy the island, it would seem to be the latter. But if the sideways universe is what happens when MIB is free, it doesn't seem so bad. On the other hand, it seems weird that having a destroyed island would be part of both Jacob and MIB's separate plans. Unless of course Jacob wanted MIB to destroy the island, and sent Widmore knowing what MIB would find out about Desmond, which might only be a partial truth.

I wonder if Desmond is able to hold the light inside of him, thus protecting it even after the island is destroyed. Perhaps this is how he knows what he needs to do.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Sorry about the smeek Rob


----------



## ozzman73 (Nov 27, 2006)

More importantly, what is the failsafe? I think Desmond, because he can withstand large electromagnetic discharges will be sent down the grotto(?), or source or whatever it was that made MIB into the smoke monster. Desmond wouldn't die but could set things right (somehow)

OK not a completely developed theory, but we work as a team at TCF, right?


----------



## ronsch (Sep 7, 2001)

aindik said:


> I think the candidates are people who, if they left the real world, nobody would miss them. People who lead, as Jacob said, "lonely existences." That used to be true for Kate, until it wasn't.
> 
> Still makes no sense out of Sun or Jin.


They weren't necessarily people that nobody would miss but Sun and Jin definitely qualify as "lonely and flawed". Remember that at the beginning of the show Sun was getting ready to dump Jin and had even had an affair and secretly learned English so she could get along in America without him.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

I thought the conversation between Jack and Jacob about finding the light was interesting. Jacob told Jack that it is located beyond the bamboo stand, and Jack said he was familiar with the area and there is nothing there. Jacob replied that he'll be able to find it now. It kind of reminds me of other things that have not been seeable when they should have been apparent (the lighthouse, etc). It's not that the light source is difficult to find, it's that it's impossible to find because it's not there at all unless you are supposed to be looking for it.

Kind of cool that Jack is Jacob's replacement (if in fact there's no further twist yet to come), considering how similar their names are. I never noticed before just now how close their names actually are.



smak said:


> Not only do I think there is time left to do it, but the surgery and subsequent first step of sideways Locke will be the main trigger for him to remember the island, which will be the main catalyst for the final defeat of MIB. However that happens.
> 
> Desmonds goal is to get all the candidates to remember the island. His running Locke down leads him to see Jack again and finally consent to the surgery.
> 
> ...


I could envision a scene shot from the same angles as the pilot episode, where Locke wiggles his toes on the beach. Only this time, he's wiggling his toes post-surgery.



betts4 said:


> That is a good point. Question is, was there a boat he could have traveled on? I don't remember. But that may be how it happened.


I still have a problem with the water rules, too. I don't think it could be that he traveled to the freighter by boat, because that would be one hell of a huge loophole: "You can't cross water, except on a boat." On the other hand, if the rule is "You can't go IN the water" then I'm not sure what happened two episodes ago when Jack pushed Flocke into the water by the sub and he climbed right out, apparently unaffected. Perhaps getting him wet served to disable his ability to smokify, temporarily.



ozzman73 said:


> OK not a completely developed theory, but we work as a team at TCF, right?


Live together, die alone.

...which, in light of last night's episode and Jacob's explanation about why they were selected, is an expression that takes on new significance...


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

ronsch said:


> They weren't necessarily people that nobody would miss but Sun and Jin definitely qualify as "lonely and flawed". Remember that at the beginning of the show Sun was getting ready to dump Jin and had even had an affair and secretly learned English so she could get along in America without him.


But then they had a kid. They should have been crossed off the list at that time, like Kate was.

Perhaps Sun was crossed off the list but Jin wasn't (because he was on the island and not with his child), but if Jin was the candidate, why was he able to kill himself?


----------



## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

pjenkins said:


> So now Jack can't be killed by smokeLocke


Jack couldn't be killed by Flocke already, which is why Flocke had to try and get them to kill each other. The question is, now that Jack has been anointed, are the others able to be killed by Flocke?


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

jkeegan said:


> No, actually, he said aloud "He changed the rules!", not broke, and we don't know who the "he" was...


Technicality. Point is, changed or broken, the rules do not have to be kept.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

aindik said:


> Not all pregnant women die in childbirth. To die in childbirth, you have to have been on the island both at conception time (why Claire didn't die) and at birth (why Sun didn't die). That doesn't sound like something that can be caused by a bomb in any normal scientific sense.


It wasn't the bomb per se, it was the electro-magnetic anomaly that was triggered when they drilled into it, probably aggravated by the bomb, and more or less controlled by the button in the hatch.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It wasn't the bomb per se, it was the electro-magnetic anomaly that was triggered when they drilled into it, probably aggravated by the bomb, and more or less controlled by the button in the hatch.


If electromagnetism was the reason, wouldn't it have either killed Claire's baby or Sun's?


----------



## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

JETarpon said:


> Boy, Jack is going to be ticked at himself for wrecking the lighthouse when he needs to start looking for his own replacement.


He'll have 2000 years to build a new one.


----------



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

aindik said:


> But then they had a kid. They should have been crossed off the list at that time, like Kate was.
> 
> Perhaps Sun was crossed off the list but Jin wasn't (because he was on the island and not with his child), but if Jin was the candidate, why was he able to kill himself?


But Jacob had no problem ripping that Japanese guy away from his kid (IIRC. Did Jacob save his kid in exchange for the servitude, or did the kid die?)


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

ronsch said:


> They weren't necessarily people that nobody would miss but Sun and Jin definitely qualify as "lonely and flawed". Remember that at the beginning of the show Sun was getting ready to dump Jin and had even had an affair and secretly learned English so she could get along in America without him.


Jacob had billions of humans to choose from, didnt' he?


----------



## mmilton80 (Jul 28, 2005)

ronsch said:


> They weren't necessarily people that nobody would miss but Sun and Jin definitely qualify as "lonely and flawed". Remember that at the beginning of the show Sun was getting ready to dump Jin and had even had an affair and secretly learned English so she could get along in America without him.


I was hoping that we would find out which Kwon...but it appears both were candidates. Could they have been protectors together?


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

MacThor said:


> He'll have 2000 years to build a new one.


Or maybe the new protector will simply use the common technologies of his 21st century time period, a massive database with wide scereen TV to scout out his future candidates.

Jack's selection was too predictable from a LOST standpoint making me join those others who think a further twist awaits. But then I was convinced that Sawyer would wake up from his head injury with a leak connection to the LAXworld and apparently he didn't. Liked the scene where Sawyer realized his precipitous action resulted in his friends' deaths and Jack, whom Sawyer had blamed for Blondie's death, told Sawyer that no, he wasn't responsible Flock was.

I'm really pissed that I have 7AM major surgery the Monday after LOST finale. Hafta record it and watch later. I'll kill any nurses for talking about the ending in my presence. And post-op if instead I wake up on some remote island, I'm gonna be really pissed. Well, unless Kate is there.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

aindik said:


> I think the candidates are people who, if they left the real world, nobody would miss them. People who lead, as Jacob said, "lonely existences." That used to be true for Kate, until it wasn't.
> 
> Still makes no sense out of Sun or Jin.
> 
> ...





uncdrew said:


> ... and if you go back and look, I'm not sure if it makes sense for others too.
> 
> Was everyone who's name was in the cave a loner at the time they came to the island?
> 
> Heck, even Hurley still has a mom who loves him and depends on him emotionally.





ronsch said:


> They weren't necessarily people that nobody would miss but Sun and Jin definitely qualify as "lonely and flawed". Remember that at the beginning of the show Sun was getting ready to dump Jin and had even had an affair and secretly learned English so she could get along in America without him.


And I'd hardly say that Jin was happy.
He'd become a thug for his father-in-law which was someone he didn't want to be nor was he happy doing it.

And Hurley was miserable in his life and while his mother was around, she also seemed to be content when his father came back.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Maybe Jack said yes just to get access and that he'll blow up the island.

I'd be cool with that ending.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

It's a shame I went straight to bed after watching last night. Here we go. 



dianebrat said:


> And then there was the Rousseau scenes, I was so glad they brought Mira back for that, and Ben getting all weepy.


This was amazing to me, especially considering early in the season, she was one of the actors they said they weren't able to get to come back. It was a great surprise.



T-Wolves said:


> Loved seeing Ana Lucia, Rousseau (she cleans up nice!), and Alex again!


You've never seen her in Babylon 5?



uncdrew said:


> Ben's "so you said there were other people to kill?" -- great line, great performance.


It reminded me of A Fistful of Yen from Kentucky Fried Movie, where the guy doesn't want to take on the mission until he's told he can kill 20, 30 people. 



TheMerk said:


> I was pretty vocal in my dislike of last week's episode. You know what? This episode actually made up for, and even validated last week's.
> 
> Bravo. Can't wait for Sunday.


Which only goes to show, snap judgments are made much too often.



uncdrew said:


> ...and perhaps it's because I think I'd be like that, but I'm surprised more characters on the show don't have more WTF type comments like Miles does.


Because that would be ridiculous.



jamesbobo said:


> When Ben was off the Island he paid a visit to Whidmore who asked if he was going to kill him. Ben said "You know I can't do that. I'm going to kill your daughter".
> So if Ben couldn't kill Whidmore then, why can he now? Unless rules don't mean anything.
> 
> By the way, jog my memory. What happened to Miles?


WIDMORE!











mmilton80 said:


> Notice that Jacob blessed a pool of water.


We don't know that he blessed it, for all we know he just spoke some magic words. Technicality, I know, but I don't see it as a blessing at all.



pjenkins said:


> The notion that Jacob speaks a few words into a water source and Jack drinks it making him "like Jacob" is pretty silly, goes along with most of the storyline the last season or so I guess.


Well, it's exactly what his mother did to him. I suppose it was silly then, too.



uncdrew said:


> ... and if you go back and look, I'm not sure if it makes sense for others too.
> 
> Was everyone who's name was in the cave a loner at the time they came to the island?
> 
> Heck, even Hurley still has a mom who loves him and depends on him emotionally.





JYoung said:


> And Hurley was miserable in his life and while his mother was around, she also seemed to be content when his father came back.


Hurley's mom isn't exactly supportive. She's disappointed in just about everything he does, even post-lottery where he's bought her the world.



Ekims said:


> This is what I asssumed, which is why Jack's kid's mom will be there. Julie Bowen is in Hawaii anyway for filming Modern Family, perhaps for this very reason..


You know, that's a very good point. Almost a spoiler. 

Now to click Submit Reply and see the 500 messages that people wrote as I typed this.

Greg


----------



## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

gchance said:


> Well, it's exactly what his mother did to him. I suppose it was silly then, too.


yes, it was. the entire backstory last week wasn't very well done at all, imo.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I wonder if there were any accidental passengers at all on the plane, or if every single one of them was brought to the Island.

It doesn't even have to be b/c they were a candidate. Maybe Rose was brought there to be healed.


----------



## Honora (Oct 16, 2006)

aindik said:


> But then they had a kid. They should have been crossed off the list at that time, like Kate was.
> 
> Perhaps Sun was crossed off the list but Jin wasn't (because he was on the island and not with his child), but if Jin was the candidate, why was he able to kill himself?


At the beginning their marriage was horribly broken (he was changed by working for Sun's dad, and she was unhappy enough with that change that she had an affair and planned to escape him). They fell in love with each other again, but were separated for three years.

Sun becoming a mother should have taken her off the list, but she still wanted her husband back, and Jin wanted her back. Once they were together, they weren't candidates anymore. So they were able to die.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

But no doubt Sun's parents love her and want her. Jacob could have very easily picked someone more alone than the group he selected.

And if the qualification was "lonely", "flawed" and "alone", the world is still full of many more qualified than our Losties. But of course those aren't the only criteria -- Jacob hand selected these very few.


----------



## Rinkdog (Dec 21, 2005)

aindik said:


> Yeah, I don't think it's a Drive Shaft concert. It's at a museum, and both Miles and Kate are dressing up for it.


It has to be the piano concert with Jack's son. Just a guess.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Jacob -- the 2000 year old virgin. 
I really liked this episode. Sawyer, Hurley, Kate & Jack really got side-tracked on their quest to get to Desmond. 
And Richard ... he cannot die, so ...


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

getreal said:


> Jacob -- the 2000 year old virgin.
> I really liked this episode. Sawyer, Hurley, Kate & Jack really got side-tracked on their quest to get to Desmond.
> And Richard ... he cannot die, so ...


What makes you think he was a virgin?


----------



## eMarkM (Apr 28, 2003)

I really don't think there will be a twist with Jack. Why would there be? He's been anointed, just like Jacob was, and he's now the new Jacob. I don't think it's that difficult to believe. They set it up for Jack to go from ****** Man of Science to sympathetic Man of Faith for the last two seasons and this completes the transition. For there to be a "twist" and it ends up being someone else in the finale kind of eradicates that whole arc.

However, I think it's entirely possible he won't hold the job for very long because it will "end". Probably with them figuring out how to kill FLocke somehow and unwinding sideways world.

Ben is playing a deeper game with FLocke and I think he'll be a key to defeating him in the end. He had his vendetta with Widmore, but I don't think he just flipped back to evil and is willing to kill the other candidates. Otherwise that whole, powerful redemption scene with Illana was for nothing.


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## ronsch (Sep 7, 2001)

eMarkM said:


> However, I think it's entirely possible he won't hold the job for very long because it will "end". Probably with them figuring out how to kill FLocke somehow and unwinding sideways world.


Even if Flocke is killed the light will still need to be protected.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

ronsch said:


> Even if Flocke is killed the light will still need to be protected.


Not if it's all underwater


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> Not if it's all underwater


Or extinguished.


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

danterner said:


> Kind of cool that Jack is Jacob's replacement (if in fact there's no further twist yet to come), considering how similar their names are. I never noticed before just now how close their names actually are.


Funny you should mention this. I was just searching the history of my name (Jamie... James, don't ask me why). During the search I ran across the name Jacob and learned that, according to wikipedia anyway, the name Jack has been used before as a nickname for Jacob.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_(name)


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

uncdrew said:


> Or extinguished.


Or inside someone who carries it with them.

That's what I'm thinking Desmond is. He's "special" because what happens when he taps into the light (IOW, when he is exposed to massive amounts of radiation) is different from what happens when anyone else does. When he taps in, he absorbs it all and keeps it within him (everyone else extinguishes it). IOW, what the island once did - protect the light - Desmond's body now does.


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## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

aindik said:


> Desmond calling Jack to lie to him about Oceanic finding the casket was interesting. But if Desmond knew about the concert, why would he need to do that? Belt and suspenders?


My guess is that it was so that Jack could "let go".



eMarkM said:


> I really don't think there will be a twist with Jack. Why would there be? He's been anointed, just like Jacob was, and he's now the new Jacob. I don't think it's that difficult to believe. They set it up for Jack to go from ****** Man of Science to sympathetic Man of Faith for the last two seasons and this completes the transition. For there to be a "twist" and it ends up being someone else in the finale kind of eradicates that whole arc.


Gotta disagree on this one. It makes no sense to me that they would go to the trouble of showing last week that in order to take over for his "mother", Jacob had to accept the deal and drink from that particular bottle of wine. Earlier in the season, Jacob still had that same bottle, with no noticeable difference in the amount of wine remaining, and showed it to Richard. This was presumably hundreds if not thousands of years after taking the bottle from his mother. IMO, the only reason to have shown the two scenes with the wine bottle is if that has to be the way to transfer power from one island protector to the next. I think that there will be a twist, and it will involve Jacob knowingly tricking everyone into thinking that Jack is the new protector when he never really was. Hurley is destined to take over for Jacob. If it wasn't clear earlier in the season, it became apparent as soon as Hurley told Kate and Sawyer that he was glad the new protector was Jack instead of him.

I will also predict that Jacob will successfully help put an end to Smokey's reign, but that ultimately, Sawyer or Jack will get pushed into the stream that leads to the light and become an entirely new Smokey altogether. Remember that Jacob's brother was shown to actually be a pretty good guy who just wanted to leave the island. The only morally questionable action we saw him take was killing the woman who made him an orphan, lied to him his whole life, destroyed his chances to leave the island, and proceeded to kill the people he chose to live with. It was only after being pushed in the stream by Jacob and turning into Smokey that he became the badass that everyone needs protection from. I think that fate awaits one of our castaways (although it might be a short lived fate depending on how the sideways storyline plays into the end game).


----------



## T-Wolves (Aug 22, 2000)

A few further thoughts:
- We saw MIB-Locke arrive alone (right?) on the outrigger. So where is Claire? Left behind again?
- *Somebody *helped Desmond out of the well. Sayid told Jack that Desmond was still in the well, so it wasn't Sayid. So who got Desmond out? Bernard/Rose? _DogenZombie/LennonZombie_? Vincent? Miles? Widmore/Zoe?
- Now that Jack is the new Jacob, is the Temple's jacuzzi back in working order again?

Julie Bowen was on a talk show a few weeks ago, and I thought she indicated that she was *not *going to be on any Lost episodes this season. I remember thinking that Jack's ex-wife in the sideways world must be somebody else (probably Juliet).


----------



## Boot (Mar 15, 2000)

Interesting that the current Jack and Locke are the current Jacob and MiB, and in the sideways world, Jack is about to cut Locke with a knife (surgery). And we know that a knife was used to kill Jacob and his mom. I wonder if the surgery is forbidden to happen now, per the island rules? Or if that's the loophole that will kill MiB?


----------



## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

3D said:


> My guess is that it was so that Jack could "let go".
> 
> Gotta disagree on this one. It makes no sense to me that they would go to the trouble of showing last week that in order to take over for his "mother", Jacob had to accept the deal and drink from that particular bottle of wine. Earlier in the season, Jacob still had that same bottle, with no noticeable difference in the amount of wine remaining, and showed it to Richard. This was presumably hundreds if not thousands of years after taking the bottle from his mother. IMO, the only reason to have shown the two scenes with the wine bottle is if that has to be the way to transfer power from one island protector to the next. I think that there will be a twist, and it will involve Jacob knowingly tricking everyone into thinking that Jack is the new protector when he never really was. Hurley is destined to take over for Jacob. If it wasn't clear earlier in the season, it became apparent as soon as Hurley told Kate and Sawyer that he was glad the new protector was Jack instead of him.


You may be right, but I don't think the power lies in the bottle of wine, but in the "blessing" that was given before Jacob (and Jack) drank. If the wine was so important, I don't think Jacob would have given it to MiB to "pass the time."


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

3D said:


> Gotta disagree on this one. It makes no sense to me that they would go to the trouble of showing last week that in order to take over for his "mother", Jacob had to accept the deal and drink from that particular bottle of wine. Earlier in the season, Jacob still had that same bottle, with no noticeable difference in the amount of wine remaining, and showed it to Richard. This was presumably hundreds if not thousands of years after taking the bottle from his mother. IMO, the only reason to have shown the two scenes with the wine bottle is if that has to be the way to transfer power from one island protector to the next.


Didn't Richard also drink from that same wine bottle? If so, clearly it's not drinking from the wine that makes you the protector (although it may have something to do with making you ageless, if not immortal).


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Didn't Richard also drink from that same wine bottle? If so, clearly it's not drinking from the wine that makes you the protector (although it may have something to do with making you ageless, if not immortal).


We saw him and Jacob drinking SOMETHING. We didn't see Jacob pour the wine (although when he was holding the bottle, the cork was off).

Greg


----------



## vman (Feb 9, 2001)

Philosofy said:


> But Jacob had no problem ripping that Japanese guy away from his kid (IIRC. Did Jacob save his kid in exchange for the servitude, or did the kid die?)


That was part of the deal - Jacob could save the son, but Dogen would never see him again.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

aindik said:


> Or inside someone who carries it with them.
> 
> That's what I'm thinking Desmond is. He's "special" because what happens when he taps into the light (IOW, when he is exposed to massive amounts of radiation) is different from what happens when anyone else does. When he taps in, he absorbs it all and keeps it within him (everyone else extinguishes it). IOW, what the island once did - protect the light - Desmond's body now does.


Maybe he will just have to expel it every 108 minutes or so....  "watch out guys, here comes some more light....phhhhaaarrttt......


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

gchance said:


> We saw him and Jacob drinking SOMETHING. We didn't see Jacob pour the wine (although when he was holding the bottle, the cork was off).


I went back and read a recap of "Ab Aeterno" on TV.com, and you're right, it doesn't specifically say that Richard drank from the wine bottle. However, it did remind me of something I had completely forgotten - Jacob gave the wine bottle to MIB at the end of the ep as something to "pass the time", at which time MIB takes the wine bottle and smashes it.

Clearly, if the wine bottle was essential to Jacob finding a successor, he wouldn't have given it to MIB. So if there's a twist to Jack being the protector, it's not because Jacob blessed water and not wine.

ETA: or, what jking already said.


----------



## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

wprager said:


> Monday is a stat holiday in most parts of Canada (Victoria Day), so I'm covered


Remind me: she died in season 3, right?


----------



## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

wprager said:


> Or maybe they weren't rules at all but the ramblings of a crazy old woman.


The shows writers are men.


----------



## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

DreadPirateRob said:


> I went back and read a recap of "Ab Aeterno" on TV.com, and you're right, it doesn't specifically say that Richard drank from the wine bottle. However, it did remind me of something I had completely forgotten - Jacob gave the wine bottle to MIB at the end of the ep as something to "pass the time", at which time MIB takes the wine bottle and smashes it.
> 
> Clearly, if the wine bottle was essential to Jacob finding a successor, he wouldn't have given it to MIB. So if there's a twist to Jack being the protector, it's not because Jacob blessed water and not wine.
> 
> ETA: or, what jking already said.


Oh well, didn't take long for that theory to get debunked. I had forgotten about MIB smashing the bottle (and to tell you the truth, only vaguely remember it now, although I'll take your word for it). That said, I'm still in the camp that thinks whatever Jacob did last night did not turn the power over to Jack.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

vman said:


> ... Ben's killing Widmore could have been "good" - to keep MIB from learning too much from Widmore (and it was weird Widmore totally caved liked that and started spilling the beans).


Widmore was supposed to be wanting to harness the energy of the Island, so this sudden and quick end to his character rings hollow ...



smak said:


> Not only do I think there is time left to do it, but the surgery and subsequent first step of sideways Locke will be the main trigger for him to remember the island, which will be the main catalyst for the final defeat of MIB. However that happens.


If Locke doesn't survive the sideways surgery, he may cause MiB/FLocke to become vulnerable in the Other timeline.



scheckeNYK said:


> Anyone else think Locke's surgery won't go so well? If he codes right in the middle of it, that would pretty much qualify as a near death experience. That's going to be the trigger IMO.


+1



Steveknj said:


> Widmore's role in this whole thing still perplexes me. Was he really working for Jacob?


I think Widmore was lying when he said that Jacob had convinced him of the error of his ways.



jradford said:


> When Michael was about to blow up the freighter, Christian (who we now know was MIB) showed up and said something along the lines of, "You can go now," a line relating to Michael's inability to kill himself because he still had to serve a purpose. So...how did Christian (MIB) get on the freighter? Is that a fair question considering what we now know about the smoke and it's inability to travel over water


I do not think that Christian's appearance on the freighter was MiB. That was a ghost.



ozzman73 said:


> More importantly, what is the failsafe? I think Desmond, because he can withstand large electromagnetic discharges will be sent down the grotto(?), or source or whatever it was that made MIB into the smoke monster. Desmond wouldn't die but could set things right (somehow)
> 
> OK not a completely developed theory, but we work as a team at TCF, right?


There may be something there ... 



danterner said:


> I could envision a scene shot from the same angles as the pilot episode, where Locke wiggles his toes on the beach. Only this time, he's wiggling his toes post-surgery.


Or the wiggling shadowy object in the foreground as Locke looks down could lead into a Viagra logo superimposing the corner of the screen and a voice-over saying that if it lasts for more than four hours, consult your physician. 



philw1776 said:


> I'm really pissed that I have 7AM major surgery the Monday after LOST finale. Hafta record it and watch later. I'll kill any nurses for talking about the ending in my presence. And post-op if instead I wake up on some remote island, I'm gonna be really pissed. Well, unless Kate is there.


Hopefully your dural sac will be safe ... good luck with the surgery! 



vertigo235 said:


> What makes you think he was a virgin?


Did you see how chafed his hands were? 



Boot said:


> Interesting that the current Jack and Locke are the current Jacob and MiB, and in the sideways world, Jack is about to cut Locke with a knife (surgery). And we know that a knife was used to kill Jacob and his mom. I wonder if the surgery is forbidden to happen now, per the island rules? Or if that's the loophole that will kill MiB?


If they show a 2000 year old huge dagger next to the scalpel and forceps, I'd worry for Locke.


----------



## thenightfly42 (Mar 5, 2002)

I almost had a heart attack with something I noticed during the commercials... 


> Verizon Customers Can Send ABC LOST Farewell Messages
> MAY 11, 2010
> 
> Exciting news for Verizon customers! You can send Farewell Messages that may air before the finale of ABCs hit series LOST!
> ...


(source: http://www.disneydreaming.com/2010/05/11/verizon-customers-can-send-abc-lost-farewell-messages/)

Fortunately, that's during the recap show before LOST, not during the actual finale episode. For a moment, I thought they had managed to come up with something that would be even worse than the "Countdown to V" bug.


----------



## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

Oh, and sorry if this is a smeek, cause I've only skimmed this thread... but wasn't it mentioned somewhere in this episode that "a few days ago" someone had run Locke down in the parking lot? Geez, Locke. You were violently run down and flipped over a car. Take a few days off!


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

At the beginning of the episode, Jack looked in the mirror and there was a cut on his neck. It didn't appear that he just shaved, so it just appeared there. Yet, in the scenes from the sub and just after they got off, I didn't see any cut there. I really think it has some significance. Any thoughts on this?

Oh, and it appears that Ben is manipulating MiB. Whenever I see him do that, I get the urge to see him compete on Survivor.


----------



## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

Philosofy said:


> At the beginning of the episode, Jack looked in the mirror and there was a cut on his neck. It didn't appear that he just shaved, so it just appeared there. Yet, in the scenes from the sub and just after they got off, I didn't see any cut there. I really think it has some significance. Any thoughts on this?


Jack noticed the same phenomenon earlier in the season too.


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## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

I doubt that Jack and company saved Desmond.

I think it's funny that people think Jack became the anointed one too quicky. It's only been in progress for 119 episodes 

I think Ben is legitimately with Locke now. He does whatever he can to survive at any given time... whether that happens to fall on the side of good or evil.

I loved the episode, but I do think it would be awesome if we could have an every now and then "Island Chronicles" where we go back and see detailed stories about things that weren't fully fleshed out. Like Henry Gale's story.. or the building of Jacob's cabin.. or Jacob/Smokey right after Smokey was created... or who the people were hunting the boar... seems like it could be a lucrative property and I can't believe they'll just let it sit there untapped...


----------



## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

Philosofy said:


> At the beginning of the episode, Jack looked in the mirror and there was a cut on his neck. It didn't appear that he just shaved, so it just appeared there. Yet, in the scenes from the sub and just after they got off, I didn't see any cut there. I really think it has some significance. Any thoughts on this?
> 
> Oh, and it appears that Ben is manipulating MiB. Whenever I see him do that, I get the urge to see him compete on Survivor.


Interesting that someone got their throat cut in the same episode... though I have no idea how the two could possibly connect.

I also think they dropped the ball on the Widmore resolution. They could have gotten Desmond to the island some other way and the payoff for Widmore vs Ben and Widmore in general was beyond weak.


----------



## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

I must comment on the voice-over for the finale event. (There were absolutely no spoilers in the preview, BTW). My wife used a term she has never used for *anything* in the six seasons of "Lost" -- not even "Expose."

"Lame"

I have to agree. Sounded like a promo for Disney World.


----------



## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

MacThor said:


> Sounded like a promo for Disney World.


My wife said this, word for word.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

aindik said:


> Or inside someone who carries it with them.
> 
> That's what I'm thinking Desmond is. He's "special" because what happens when he taps into the light (IOW, when he is exposed to massive amounts of radiation) is different from what happens when anyone else does. When he taps in, he absorbs it all and keeps it within him (everyone else extinguishes it). IOW, what the island once did - protect the light - Desmond's body now does.


Well duh. That's obvious, right?



Kidding, but I do think that's Widmore's plan.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

DreadPirateRob said:


> I went back and read a recap of "Ab Aeterno" on TV.com, and you're right, it doesn't specifically say that Richard drank from the wine bottle. However, it did remind me of something I had completely forgotten - Jacob gave the wine bottle to MIB at the end of the ep as something to "pass the time", at which time MIB takes the wine bottle and smashes it.
> 
> Clearly, if the wine bottle was essential to Jacob finding a successor, he wouldn't have given it to MIB. So if there's a twist to Jack being the protector, it's not because Jacob blessed water and not wine.
> 
> ETA: or, what jking already said.


And where did they get wine from anyway? I want those answers!!! 

Was it some old stuff that turned to vinegar? Was it a fine 1970s Dharma private label wine? Washed up on shore wine?


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

GDG76 said:


> I doubt that Jack and company saved Desmond.
> 
> I think it's funny that people think Jack became the anointed one too quicky. It's only been in progress for 119 episodes


...and they didn't have much more time to draw it out.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I liked how they had Jack stitching Kate up in a scene that was eerily reminiscent of the pilot episode. Only in reverse. I almost expected her to bring up the story Jack told while she was stitching him.


----------



## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

Since Jacob seemed fond of noting the candidate's similarity to himself, I thought it was curious that the candidate who took his place just happens to be the only one with a (half-)sibling that's perhaps a bit, er, _annoyed_ with him on the island.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

betts4 said:


> I liked how they had Jack stitching Kate up in a scene that was eerily reminiscent of the pilot episode. Only in reverse. I almost expected her to bring up the story Jack told while she was stitching him.


Yeah I expected her to count to five..


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> Wouldn't him getting hit by Desmond's car qualify as a near death experience? I also wondered if the plane crash he had when he was piloting wouldn't ALSO qualify? But I'm not quite sure when that happened, pre or post his time on the island.


It's not the near-death experience itself, it's that coupled with a realization about the other timeline. Locke had that realization as a result of what Ben said that Desmond said. He needs to "let go."

As for the private plane crash, that is completely irrelevant, since it happened prior to Flight 815 landing from Sydney.


betts4 said:


> I still can't believe just in one second Richard is gone.


If Smokey could kill Richard, he'd have been dead a long time ago. Also, if he were really dead, they wouldn't have left his death so ambiguous (getting flung in the air by Smokey, never seeing a body). I'm fairly certain Richard is still alive.


betts4 said:


> And for that matter, Sun was too. Maybe that is why Jin didn't mind so much dying with Sun instead of staying alive to care for their daughter. It really wasn't his.....


Sun wasn't pregnant when she came to the Island. When they found the medical hatch, they determined that she became pregnant after the plane crash.


aindik said:


> Yeah, I don't think it's a Drive Shaft concert. It's at a museum, and both Miles and Kate are dressing up for it.


Earlier this season in the sideways, Widmore tasked Desmond to recruit Charlie to play at a concert, because his wife (or was it Daniel?) had this idea about fusing classical music with rock. I'm guessing that this concert where they wanted Charlie to play, is the same concert that Miles' dad's museum is putting on, is the same concert Daniel is going to play at, is the same concert Jack's son is going to play at. All the Losties will wind up there somehow or other. 


Mike Wells said:


> So, in the end it comes down to the few survivors sitting around a fire till one jumps up and volunteers? I don't buy it. I expected Jacob to at least poll the others to see who would also take up the job. Maybe pull out a bag of rocks, all black with one white rock and have them draw or something. "the island has spoken" maybe. (or not - that would be cheesy)


But because Jacob never got a choice in becoming the protector of the Island, Jacob wanted them to have a choice, not have the Island choose them.


philw1776 said:


> I'm really pissed that I have 7AM major surgery the Monday after LOST finale. Hafta record it and watch later. I'll kill any nurses for talking about the ending in my presence. And post-op if instead I wake up on some remote island, I'm gonna be really pissed. Well, unless Kate is there.


Why wouldn't you still be able to watch the show the night before? Who cares if you don't get much sleep. You'll be spending most of the day in bed after the surgery anyway, right?


MacThor said:


> I must comment on the voice-over for the finale event. (There were absolutely no spoilers in the preview, BTW). My wife used a term she has never used for *anything* in the six seasons of "Lost" -- not even "Expose."
> 
> "Lame"
> 
> I have to agree. Sounded like a promo for Disney World.


Totally agree. The voice they used for that was totally out of place and made me not even pay attention to what was being said.


----------



## T-Wolves (Aug 22, 2000)

:up::up: I occasionally check out the "Totally Lost" videos that the guys from Entertainment Weekly (Doc Jensen) create. The ones for last week (with Mark Pellegrino and Titus Welliver) are hilarious (6 parts):


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Earlier this season in the sideways, Widmore tasked Desmond to recruit Charlie to play at a concert, because his wife (or was it Daniel?) had this idea about fusing classical music with rock. I'm guessing that this concert where they wanted Charlie to play, is the same concert that Miles' dad's museum is putting on, is the same concert Daniel is going to play at, is the same concert Jack's son is going to play at. All the Losties will wind up there somehow or other.


I thought that concert was supposed to be that same day at Eloise's birthday party, when Desmond met Penny and Daniel in the sideways.


----------



## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

A few quick and dirty bullet points:
- Richard is definitely not dead. He can't die, remember AND you don't kill off a major character that quickly.
- I like Jack as the protector of the island. I don't foresee any twist and I don't know why people think there is. Jack has been the leader from Day One and it is fitting it is him at the end. That said, I do predict that Jack's tenure will end because, well, it's the end. "It only ends once. Everything else is progress."
- I agree with gchance that snap judgments are made far too quickly, especially with episodes. Was last week's episode weak in some places? Yes, but this week's validated it very well, which goes to show they DO know what they're doing.  Jacob admitting he made a mistake wouldn't have had the same resonance if we hadn't seen it last week.
- Is it Sunday already?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

aindik said:


> I thought that concert was supposed to be that same day at Eloise's birthday party, when Desmond met Penny and Daniel in the sideways.


Yeah, you're probably right. I don't remember the specifics. But wasn't that one some kind of benefit concert for the museum (it was being held on the grounds of the museum, right?) So it would seem odd for the museum to be putting on another concert so soon after the first. I don't really understand the chronology of the sideways. Has Kate been sitting in that jail cell for several days? Has Sayid? Why would they move someone to "county" after several days in a precinct lockup?


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

The sideways timeline is all jacked up, considering how much has happened to Locke in the same time as what happened to Jin & Sun, such that they are being wheeled into the hospital at the same time.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

gchance said:


> You've never seen her in Babylon 5?
> 
> Greg


I think you're a bit delusional about the popularity of that show. Even at this forum, that skews heavily toward sci-fi, I'd guess that less than 20% of the active participants in the Lost threads have seen B5.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

aindik said:


> The sideways timeline is all jacked up, considering how much has happened to Locke in the same time as what happened to Jin & Sun, such that they are being wheeled into the hospital at the same time.


Exactly. Supposedly, Keamy came to visit Jin the morning after the plane landed, and the shootout at the restaurant happened later that day. So Sun is being wheeled into the hospital the day after the plane landed. Meanwhile, Locke is also being wheeled into the hospital at the same time, but since the plane landed, he's lost his job, gotten a new job through Rose at Hurley's temp agency, begun substitute teaching at Ben's school, and encouraged Ben to engineer a coup against the principal.

Sayid was apparently picked up by the police at the restaurant shootout the same day that Sun was shot and taken to the hospital. And he's sitting in the pokey with Kate, who, IIRC, said that it had been a week between when she met Sawyer at the airport, and when he then arrested her for running into his car.


----------



## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Was it just me or did it really happen that every single time the name "Locke" was spoken it was preceded by the word "if"?
If so it was a great fan shoutout!


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think you're a bit delusional about the popularity of that show. Even at this forum, that skews heavily toward sci-fi, I'd guess that less than 20% of the active participants in the Lost threads have seen B5.


Like me. I've never had one once of desire to watch Babylon 5.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

aindik said:


> But then they had a kid. They should have been crossed off the list at that time, like Kate was.
> 
> Perhaps Sun was crossed off the list but Jin wasn't (because he was on the island and not with his child), but if Jin was the candidate, why was he able to kill himself?


Well, I, for one, don not consider the selfless act of giving your life for someone (in this case, to keep his wife from dying alone) the same as suicide. It just isn't.

Also, do we know for a fact that he is dead? Queue Mikhail, riding a giant turtle, holding a tank of oxygen.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Philosofy said:


> But Jacob had no problem ripping that Japanese guy away from his kid (IIRC. Did Jacob save his kid in exchange for the servitude, or did the kid die?)


But was Dogen a candidate? Dogen is not a Japanese first name, is it? So I assume it is a surname, which means he is *not* a candidate. If Dogen is his first name then he could be.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Bryanmc said:


> Jack couldn't be killed by Flocke already, which is why Flocke had to try and get them to kill each other. The question is, now that Jack has been anointed, are the others able to be killed by Flocke?


They would no-longer be candidates, but not *needing* to kill has never stopped fLocke or smokey before. It can be argued that Zoe *needed* to be killed, but not from a story-line point of view.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Like me. I've never had one once of desire to watch Babylon 5.


And I have also, not even once, had an ounce ... well you see what I did there ...


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think you're a bit delusional about the popularity of that show. Even at this forum, that skews heavily toward sci-fi, I'd guess that less than 20% of the active participants in the Lost threads have seen B5.


He was just asking a question  But may be we need a poll.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Last night I dreamt that Jack, having had a drink of Jacob's Kool-Aid, is now a smoke monster, but a good one. I envisioned a scene where he is running through the jungle and automatically turns into good smokey as he blocks an attack by black smokey against his compatriots. 

Someone else here must've had some dream related to last night's episode. No?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

wprager said:


> He was just asking a question  But may be we need a poll.


If only that were the only time he's mentioned Babylon 5 in threads related to other shows.


----------



## Philly Bill (Oct 6, 2004)

Wil said:


> BTW I'm not buying Jack as the new Jacob.


I am. I figured from when the candidate stuff started that he'd end up staying on the island.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Like me. I've never had one once of desire to watch Babylon 5.


goodness.. I'm debating rewatching again, I know, I know..


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think you're a bit delusional about the popularity of that show. Even at this forum, that skews heavily toward sci-fi, I'd guess that less than 20% of the active participants in the Lost threads have seen B5.





DreadPirateRob said:


> Like me. I've never had one once of desire to watch Babylon 5.





wprager said:


> He was just asking a question  But may be we need a poll.





DevdogAZ said:


> If only that were the only time he's mentioned Babylon 5 in threads related to other shows.


I will mention Babylon 5 if there's a connection or something's similar, too, the same as I might mention Star Trek or Lost in Space.

I suppose you're feeling the same way I do when people ask, "You didn't see them in <insert Joss Whedon show here>". Like it or not, this forum skews towards genre shows.

And I'm not posting a poll. Not this time.

Greg


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

aindik said:


> I thought that concert was supposed to be that same day at Eloise's birthday party, when Desmond met Penny and Daniel in the sideways.


I thought it was the concert at the museum that they were talking about. The place where Eloise was when Des went to talk to her was something else. Or not....

If you've never seen B 5 and you're going to be missing Lost, I suggest you watch it. It's not a good as Lost, but it's really good. Thanks to Greg for getting me started on it here a while back. :up:

I took the fact that Ben risked himself to save Locke in the sideways as a hint that he has not gone bad in the other timeline. It seems like there's a connection there.

I thought Ben had the C4 in his backpack. I wonder if you can blow up MiB if you get him at just the right time?

So if Jack is like Jacob now, does he know everything? All the rules? Can he make his own rules? What about the other candidates? Are they still candidates or is that all over now? I'm still assuming Locke can't just kill any of them himself, but if so, why didn't Jacob tell them that. (I know, I know) The only way I see Jack not being the new Jacob is if he dies trying to kill MiB and someone else has to be chosen.


----------



## ct1 (Jun 27, 2003)

stellie93 said:


> If you've never seen B 5 and you're going to be missing Lost, I suggest you watch it.


Especially if you like the 'long arc'. Things that seemed trivial in season 1 become important in season 4.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

gchance said:


> I will mention Babylon 5 if there's a connection or something's similar, too, the same as I might mention Star Trek or Lost in Space.
> 
> I suppose you're feeling the same way I do when people ask, "You didn't see them in <insert Joss Whedon show here>". Like it or not, this forum skews towards genre shows.
> 
> ...


You're welcome to talk about it. I've got no problem with that. I'm just pointing out that you do talk about it a lot.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

ct1 said:


> Especially if you like the 'long arc'. Things that seemed trivial in season 1 become important in season 4.


Did the have the whole thing worked out at the beginning or just make it up as they went along?


----------



## ct1 (Jun 27, 2003)

uncdrew said:


> Did the have the whole thing worked out at the beginning or just make it up as they went along?


They just ret-con very convincingly...  

(It was a little weird toward the end.. They had it planned as a 5 year story, but then got canceled so they had to accelerate to finish in 4, but then got renewed and had to stretch/extend through the 5th.)


----------



## ct1 (Jun 27, 2003)

uncdrew said:


> Did the have the whole thing worked out at the beginning or just make it up as they went along?


They just ret-con very convincingly...  

(It was a little weird toward the end.. They had it planned as a 5 year story, but then got canceled so they had to accelerate to finish in 4, but then got renewed and had to stretch/extend through the 5th.)

(BTW, interesting factoid: B5 is one of my wife's favorite shows and she ok-ed the purchase of our first TiVo series 1 just for a B5 marathon.)


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

ct1 said:


> (It was a little weird toward the end.. They had it planned as a 5 year story, but then got canceled so they had to accelerate to finish in 4, but then got renewed and had to stretch/extend through the 5th.)


It wasn't actually canceled, they just didn't know during the fourth season whether or not there would be a fifth. So they took the storylines that were going to run through the last two season, rushed some of them to wrap them up in the fourth, and delayed introducing others so they would have material for the fifth. Which is what ended up happening.

It really messed up the pacing of the show, but the content was more or less what it would have been had they known before Season 4 that there would be a Season 5.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

uncdrew said:


> Did the have the whole thing worked out at the beginning or just make it up as they went along?


...yes

;-)


----------



## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

MacThor said:


> I must comment on the voice-over for the finale event. (There were absolutely no spoilers in the preview, BTW). My wife used a term she has never used for *anything* in the six seasons of "Lost" -- not even "Expose."
> 
> "Lame"
> 
> I have to agree. Sounded like a promo for Disney World.


The voice sounded to me like the voice of that short psychic/medium lady in the Poltergeist movies. Not sure if she's even still alive though.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

About to start my rewatch, but I had a few short things to say that I forgot to mention first.

1) Liked seeig the echoed "what if it happened for a reason" talk between Locke and Jack

2) glad to hear someone (especially Jacob) use the word "flawed" to describe them. Patchy (McCail? Don't remember his name) told Kate that the reason they weren't on some list is because they were flawed. Looks like they outranked him after all though, eh? 

3) Miles tells Ben "Well I lived in these houses 30 years before you did".

That's actually incorrect, right? As a kid Ben lived there at the same time as Miles.. He didn't live in some other "work man" barracks or something, did he?

Ok, time to rewatch.


----------



## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

jking said:


> danterner said:
> 
> 
> > Kind of cool that Jack is Jacob's replacement (if in fact there's no further twist yet to come), considering how similar their names are. I never noticed before just now how close their names actually are.
> ...


And Jack is often a nickname for John as well. Woah!


----------



## DrZoidberg42 (Oct 6, 2005)

appleye1 said:


> The voice sounded to me like the voice of that short psychic/medium lady in the Poltergeist movies. Not sure if she's even still alive though.


Her name was Zelda Rubinstein and she passed in January.


----------



## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

DrZoidberg42 said:


> Her name was Zelda Rubinstein and she passed in January.


Maybe they had Sean Connery dub her voice?

Sorry, Lost always puts me in a stream of consciousness mode.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

My unedited rewatch notes:

Rewatch 5/19/2010

Jack's neck mirror bleed... Hmm..

Cereal: Super Bran.. Almost feel that's gotta be an anagram..

Maybe the SIDEWAYS is purgatory? [edit: nah]

Locke: "I heard there was an incident in the parking lot."

Ford: (sarcastic) Thanks for saving the tax payers the trouble of hunting you down.
Desmond (cheerfully): You're welcome!

Lines reversed.. Jack asked Sawyer exactly where this well was, and Sawyer said what Sayid had said. I think they read each other's lines.

Still don't understand the kid version of Jacob appearing and grabbing the ashes.

Bright red flowers next to Jacob's fire

They showed Locke's shoes stepping on the dock. Where did Christian's shoes go again?

I misremembered exactly how the smokevsRichard scene looked. Single framed it. Richard isn't far away - he's gotta be near.

In my first viewing, when Jacob told everyone to sit down and he'd explain everything, and they went to commercial, I was a bit angry and loudly proclaimed "god damn it we're not going to get to hear that conversation are we! Damn it!!"

Ford: "Tell me something, Jacob. Why do I gotta be punished for your mistake?"

Sunday can't come soon enough..


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

And by the way, before the confusion/hecticness/etc of the finale thread starts, I just wanted to say it's been a fun 6 years posting and reading with you all. This was the only show I really talked online about, and I did all of that talking here. It's been fun. Very sad to see it end. Still, can't wait until Sunday.

Thanks everyone for being my extended Lost family.


----------



## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

jkeegan said:


> Where did Christian's shoes go again?


Locke is presumably still wearing them, wherever his corpse is now.


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

T-Wolves said:


> :up::up: I occasionally check out the "Totally Lost" videos that the guys from Entertainment Weekly (Doc Jensen) create. The ones for last week (with Mark Pellegrino and Titus Welliver) are hilarious (6 parts):


Oh man, those were great! :up:


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I'm not normally attracted to tough acting women but Michelle Rodriguez rings my chimes.


----------



## mulscully (May 31, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> And by the way, before the confusion/hecticness/etc of the finale thread starts, I just wanted to say it's been a fun 6 years posting and reading with you all. This was the only show I really talked online about, and I did all of that talking here. It's been fun. Very sad to see it end. Still, can't wait until Sunday.
> 
> Thanks everyone for being my extended Lost family.


Believe me, I enjoyed reading your always well thought out posts. You provided me with so much insight into the show.

Thank You:up:


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

jkeegan said:


> And by the way, before the confusion/hecticness/etc of the finale thread starts, I just wanted to say it's been a fun 6 years posting and reading with you all. This was the only show I really talked online about, and I did all of that talking here. It's been fun. Very sad to see it end. Still, can't wait until Sunday.
> 
> Thanks everyone for being my extended Lost family.


YES!!!!! Thank you all for all the fun.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

So what about Rose, Bernard, and VINCENT! 

I am going to be bother, but could let it go, but would like, the writers to close the loop on the whole "Walt is special" drama from the beginning of the show. 

Also, once the Oceanic 6 got back to real life, why were Ben and Sayid killing all those people to protect the six? Who was trying to harm them and why? Does this have anything to do with the visit Jacob paid Widmore after the freighter explosion?

Who built that statue that Jacob was living in?


----------



## mmilton80 (Jul 28, 2005)

jkeegan said:


> And by the way, before the confusion/hecticness/etc of the finale thread starts, I just wanted to say it's been a fun 6 years posting and reading with you all. This was the only show I really talked online about, and I did all of that talking here. It's been fun. Very sad to see it end. Still, can't wait until Sunday.
> 
> Thanks everyone for being my extended Lost family.


I was thinking the same thing. The only reason why I became active in the TiVo Community is because of LOST. It really has been a great ride. These threads have been a tremendous source of LOST knowledge.

I wonder who will start the final LOST thread?


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

I think we should have Jeff Keegan start it now, have the mods Locke....er ...lock it until Sunday evening.

Just sayin'


----------



## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

I like a lot of the theories proposed here. I would be happy with a lot of them.



T-Wolves said:


> :up::up: I occasionally check out the "Totally Lost" videos that the guys from Entertainment Weekly (Doc Jensen) create. The ones for last week (with Mark Pellegrino and Titus Welliver) are hilarious (6 parts):





Fool Me Twice said:


> Oh man, those were great! :up:


Everyone should REALLY watch these. The first one is hilarious...but they are all awesome!


----------



## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

betts4 said:


> Also, once the Oceanic 6 got back to real life, why were Ben and Sayid killing all those people to protect the six? Who was trying to harm them and why? Does this have anything to do with the visit Jacob paid Widmore after the freighter explosion?


I always assumed no one was out to get them, that Ben was lying to Sayid and using him to take out some of Widmore's network.


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

I was listening in to Geronimo Jack's Beard this morning.  On the What They Died For podcast, Jorge and Sidekick22 had on Henry Ian Cusick as their guest.  He was awesome. 

Some interesting comments from the podcast: 

1) Jorge was speculating on who he thought would end up being Jack's kid's Mom.  As was mentioned here in the forum, Jorge noted that Modern Family was shooting an episode in HI and that Lost would have easy access to Julie Bowen for a day.  I am still in the camp,though, that it is going to be Juliette. 

2) Based on the conversation between Jorge, Sidekick, and Henry Ian, there was a scene cut for time.  The scene provides how Jack ended up with the cup that he offers to Jacob for the magic water.  In the scene, Jack is seeing stuff wash ashore from the sub.  He sees a backpack.  Included in the backpack is the cup.  Also in the backpack and shown to the camera is a copy of White Noise by Don DeLillo.  Here's a synopsis of that book from amazon.com&#8230;very interesting&#8230;as most books are to the story: 



> White Noise captures the particular strangeness of life in a time where humankind has finally learned enough to kill itself. Naturally, it's a terribly funny book, and the prose is as beautiful as a sunset through a particulate-filled sky. Nice-guy narrator Jack Gladney teaches Hitler Studies at a small college. His wife may be taking a drug that removes fear, and one day a nearby chemical plant accidentally releases a cloud of gas that may be poisonous. Writing before Bhopal and Prozac entered the popular lexicon, DeLillo produced a work so closely tuned into its time that it tells the future.


 

3) Henry Ian Cusick noted that they did several takes on his "fight" scene with Michael Emerson.  He said that on one take, he stepped too close to ME and accidentally hit him pretty hard under his eye.  ME went down pretty quickly and was taken to the hospital to be looked at (HIC said he was fine).  The hospital freaked at first as ME still had all the make-up blood all over him.  

One other thought of a connection I might like to see tying the finale to early seasons is the Desmond "see you in another life, brutha".  It would be neat to see Jack running in the stands again, in the sideways, have him meet Des, Des says the line, and then we zoom to present day on the Island, or something like that. 

I really liked this episode and I can't wait to see the finale.  I know some ?s will not be answered.  I am looking forward to having those 2.5 hours wash over me.  Hell, I'll admit it now, I expect I will shed a tear or two, for the characters and the end of the best series of TV ever.  Heck, I was watching the official Lost Video Podcast this morning.  It was footage and stuff related to Lost Live last week when they pre-aired What They Died For with Michael Giaconno's (sp) Orchestra playing live.  They were cutting in and out to slow-mo shots of the cast coming out and waving to the crowd over the awesome score.  THAT brought a tear to my eye. 

I hope those looking for "all the answers" are able to "let it go" (ha!) long enough that you can appreciate the finale.  I think it will be quite emotional on many fronts.  I think Darlton will hit it out of the park.

Oh, ETA: Ben IS Russell Hantz!!


----------



## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

jkeegan said:


> And by the way, before the confusion/hecticness/etc of the finale thread starts, I just wanted to say it's been a fun 6 years posting and reading with you all. This was the only show I really talked online about, and I did all of that talking here. It's been fun. Very sad to see it end. Still, can't wait until Sunday.
> 
> Thanks everyone for being my extended Lost family.


Thanks Jeff. Have really enjoyed your posts over the years, and I feel exactly the same way. I was just watching the following video and thought I should share it here. Some of you might not like rap/r&b, but it's a well done video and I think sums up what a lot of us are probably feeling right now. These guys obviously love the show.


----------



## vman (Feb 9, 2001)

jlb said:


> I was listening in to Geronimo Jacks Beard this morning.* On the What They Died For podcast, Jorge and Sidekick22 had on Henry Ian Cusick as their guest.* He was awesome.*
> 
> Some interesting comments from the podcast:*


I listened to it as well - awesome and very funny podcast. one of their best. One other thing they mentioned in there (I'll spoil it just in case - it's about Claire):



Spoiler



It sounds like there was another scene cut where FLocke asks/tells Claire that she needs to kill some people for him, and she refuses - very interesting they cut this, as it was odd she was not in this episode at all and this scene really shows her coming farther and farther back from the "bad" side.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

"I have to go to Target. To buy socks."-Benjamin Linus.


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Yeah, that was a great Emerson Cameo for the Top 10!


----------



## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> "I have to go to Target. To buy socks."Benjamin Linus.


Were Lindelof and Cuse interviewed on the show as well?


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

vman said:


> I listened to it as well - awesome and very funny podcast. one of their best. One other thing they mentioned in there (I'll spoil it just in case - it's about Claire):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Claire was in the episode, but only in one scene in the sideways at Jack's house.

What I thought was interesting from Geronimo Jack's Beard is that they only aired the stuff they recorded back when the episode was filmed. Nothing new after watching it on TV like they've had in the other episodes.


----------



## grue (Jul 17, 2003)

Miles' comment about the "secreter" room cracked me up.


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

danterner said:


> Live together, die alone.
> 
> ...which, in light of last night's episode and Jacob's explanation about why they were selected, is an expression that takes on new significance...


Well, as far as protecting the island is concerned, it's more like die together, live alone. 



aindik said:


> But then they had a kid. They should have been crossed off the list at that time, like Kate was.
> 
> Perhaps Sun was crossed off the list but Jin wasn't (because he was on the island and not with his child), but if Jin was the candidate, why was he able to kill himself?


I think once they were off the island, they were no longer protected. Otherwise they all could have stayed near the bomb, and it wouldn't have gone off. Flocke needed someone to pull the wires once they were away from the island so that the bomb would be activated outside of the island's protection.


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

aindik said:


> ......
> What I thought was interesting from Geronimo Jack's Beard is that they only aired the stuff they recorded back when the episode was filmed. Nothing new after watching it on TV like they've had in the other episodes.


I got you on that one....I went back into PodTrapper and the explanation is in the summary:



> Hi, folks. Unfortunately due to the fact that Jorge is in New York and Sidekick22 is in Hawaii, we are unable to give you the "Listener Emails" and "Recap" portions of this podcast. But, to make up for it, we gave you a special guest! We recorded this podcast on March 26, 2010.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

BitbyBlit said:


> Well, as far as protecting the island is concerned, it's more like die together, live alone.
> 
> I think once they were off the island, they were no longer protected. Otherwise they all could have stayed near the bomb, and it wouldn't have gone off. Flocke needed someone to pull the wires once they were away from the island so that the bomb would be activated outside of the island's protection.


Both Jack and Michael were prevented from committing suicide while in the United States.


----------



## mulscully (May 31, 2003)

jlb said:


> I think we should have Jeff Keegan start it now, have the mods Locke....er ...lock it until Sunday evening.
> 
> Just sayin'


+1 :up:


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

T-Wolves said:


> :up::up: I occasionally check out the "Totally Lost" videos that the guys from Entertainment Weekly (Doc Jensen) create. The ones for last week (with Mark Pellegrino and Titus Welliver) are hilarious (6 parts):


What a couple of smart, funny, interesting guys!


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

On GJB, Jorge posted a pic of the shiner Emerson got from HIC:


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Just out of curiosity, how long has the series finale been in the can?


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> And by the way, before the confusion/hecticness/etc of the finale thread starts, I just wanted to say it's been a fun 6 years posting and reading with you all. This was the only show I really talked online about, and I did all of that talking here. It's been fun. Very sad to see it end. Still, can't wait until Sunday.
> 
> Thanks everyone for being my extended Lost family.


...and thank you too. 

There will be another show someday that gets us engaged again. Might be awhile, but it will come.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> Just out of curiosity, how long has the series finale been in the can?


Damon and Carlton both tweeted that they were done editing it on May 3.


----------



## michad (Sep 9, 2002)

jlb said:


> I think we should have Jeff Keegan start it now, have the mods Locke....er ...lock it until Sunday evening.
> 
> Just sayin'


I concur.

I'm only started the last two cus of the iPad-ease of posting and I still have that stigma of threadkiller.


----------



## mmilton80 (Jul 28, 2005)

michad said:


> I concur.
> 
> I'm only started the last two cus of the iPad-ease of posting and I still have that stigma of threadkiller.


and imagine if no one posted in the LOST finale thread!?!


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

jlb said:


> On GJB, Jorge posted a pic of the shiner Emerson got from HIC:


Is Desmond a lefty?


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> And by the way, before the confusion/hecticness/etc of the finale thread starts, I just wanted to say it's been a fun 6 years posting and reading with you all. This was the only show I really talked online about, and I did all of that talking here. It's been fun. Very sad to see it end. Still, can't wait until Sunday.
> 
> Thanks everyone for being my extended Lost family.


You're welcome. But the thanks are owed to you. I read these threads all day long the first two or three days after each episode, and I always look forward to the 'jkeegan' posts. I'll come back several times a day until you finally post. Yeah, a lot of your ideas are stream-of-consciousness wacky, but that's half the fun. And when you're spot on with some observations, you're *really* spot on. Like slap-my-forehead how could I have missed that spot-on.



mmilton80 said:


> I wonder who will start the final LOST thread?





jlb said:


> I think we should have Jeff Keegan start it now


This is crazy. I woke up in the middle of the night last night, had a wild dream involving a good friend, a buffet table full of food, a handicapped person I accidentally insulted (in the dream, not IRL) and Jeff Fahey, who still looked like Lapidus. (Prolly a result of too much blotter 35 years ago, but that's another story.) IAC... as I lay in bed going WTF was THAT about, I started thinking about the last LOST thread, and how I really hoped someone "good" would start it, rather than some thread crapper ("uggh, I waited six years for that?"). My thoughts turned to Jeff as one of the more prolific and insightful (and positive) LOST posters.

So there are two thoughts from all of this:
1) Jeff, go ahead and start it now. We'll overlook the rules this time.
2) I gotta get a life. 



jlb said:


> I really liked this episode and I can't wait to see the finale.* I know some ?s will not be answered.* I am looking forward to having those 2.5 hours wash over me.* Hell, I'll admit it now, I expect I will shed a tear or two, for the characters and the end of the best series of TV ever.* Heck, I was watching the official Lost Video Podcast this morning.* It was footage and stuff related to Lost Live last week when they pre-aired What They Died For with Michael Giaconno's (sp) Orchestra playing live.* They were cutting in and out to slow-mo shots of the cast coming out and waving to the crowd over the awesome score.* THAT brought a tear to my eye.*
> 
> I hope those looking for "all the answers" are able to "let it go" (ha!) long enough that you can appreciate the finale.* I think it will be quite emotional on many fronts.* I think Darlton will hit it out of the park.


Well said! :up:



Peter000 said:


> Were Lindelof and Cuse interviewed on the show as well?


Nope, Top Ten only, didn't say five other words. They will be on Jimmy Kimmel tomorrow night.



cheesesteak said:


> Just out of curiosity, how long has the series finale been in the can?


I remember seeing a post that they finished around the beginning of this month.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

uncdrew said:


> Did the have the whole thing worked out at the beginning or just make it up as they went along?


You know, it's funny because a lot of the complaints such as these were the exact ones people were saying as it was airing. Only back then, it wasn't message forums, Twitter, & Facebook, it was Usenet. This is why early on I kept saying over and over, give it time, trust them when they say they know what they're doing.

That said, unfortunately very recently there have been many shows whose producers have said just that and have been wrong (Heroes, Flashforward).



ct1 said:


> They just ret-con very convincingly...
> 
> (It was a little weird toward the end.. They had it planned as a 5 year story, but then got canceled so they had to accelerate to finish in 4, but then got renewed and had to stretch/extend through the 5th.)
> 
> (BTW, interesting factoid: B5 is one of my wife's favorite shows and she ok-ed the purchase of our first TiVo series 1 just for a B5 marathon.)


My favorite retcon was the same thing that Lost did with Penny. An original actress who appeared in one episode wasn't available, replaced her, then had to reshoot scenes from the original so it was the new actress. Heh.



jkeegan said:


> And by the way, before the confusion/hecticness/etc of the finale thread starts, I just wanted to say it's been a fun 6 years posting and reading with you all. This was the only show I really talked online about, and I did all of that talking here. It's been fun. Very sad to see it end. Still, can't wait until Sunday.
> 
> Thanks everyone for being my extended Lost family.


Thank you, Jeff, it wouldn't have been the same without you. Perhaps we should do a Lost rewatch. 



uncdrew said:


> ...and thank you too.
> 
> There will be another show someday that gets us engaged again. Might be awhile, but it will come.


Yup, I've been on this forum since 2002, and don't think there have been threads as engaging as this one that I've participated in. I have to say that because, of course, there are plenty of shows I don't watch.

Seriously though, it was either the S2 or S4 finales where the thread was just so out of hand that I had to just sit back because attempting a response was completely useless from the sheer volume of posts.



cheesesteak said:


> I'm not normally attracted to tough acting women but Michelle Rodriguez rings my chimes.


Agreed! Speaking of Ana Lucia, as I rewatched last night, two things struck me about her. First, when Hurley asked if she was coming along, Desmond's response was, "She's not ready." Wasn't that Ilana's response to Rom when he said Miles might be a candidate? I also think it implies she'll be ready sometime between that scene and the final hours.

Second, everyone kept talking about how the lives of people in sideways land are seemingly better, but certainly not Ana Lucia's. She's a totally corrupt cop, helping people escape for a hundred grand. She doesn't even remember the original timeline, she's just in it for cash. She even threatened to kill them all if she wasn't paid!

Greg


----------



## vman (Feb 9, 2001)

gchance said:


> My favorite retcon was the same thing that Lost did with Penny. An original actress who appeared in one episode wasn't available, replaced her, then had to reshoot scenes from the original so it was the new actress. Heh.


I don't recall this (but could have forgotten) - are you saying Penny was originally played by someone else in an episode before Sonya Walger?



gchance said:


> Second, everyone kept talking about how the lives of people in sideways land are seemingly better, but certainly not Ana Lucia's. She's a totally corrupt cop, helping people escape for a hundred grand. She doesn't even remember the original timeline, she's just in it for cash. She even threatened to kill them all if she wasn't paid!


I'm not so sure about that - besides being dead in the island world, she also had some pretty major baggage in the original timeline - I forget the exact details, but I thought she killed someone and was trying to cover it up before she went to Australia...


----------



## vman (Feb 9, 2001)

Went back to look it up - Ana Lucia got shot while a cop - while she survived, she was pregnant and lost the baby. When she returned to the force, she still had major emotional trauma - and when the guy who shot her was arrested, she denied it was him - she then went and killed him herself, forcing her to turn in her badge. So not exactly a great life in either world!


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> "I have to go to Target. To buy socks."Benjamin Linus.


That was great.


----------



## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

jking said:


> I always assumed no one was out to get them, that Ben was lying to Sayid and using him to take out some of Widmore's network.


That's how I always saw it, too. I thought Ben was just using Sayid for his own purposes.



gchance said:


> My favorite retcon was the same thing that Lost did with Penny. An original actress who appeared in one episode wasn't available, replaced her, then had to reshoot scenes from the original so it was the new actress. Heh.


Not exactly. They had used an actress in the picture that Desmond had with him when they first started showing Desmond in Season 2. They ended up with Sonya, and went back and reshot the picture, so that it was Sonya in the picture, not the actress/model that appeared in the initial picture with him.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Alpinemaps said:


> Not exactly. They had used an actress in the picture that Desmond had with him when they first started showing Desmond in Season 2. They ended up with Sonya, and went back and reshot the picture, so that it was Sonya in the picture, not the actress/model that appeared in the initial picture with him.


Yeah, that's pretty common...they don't hire an actor until they actually need one, and just use a fill-in for photos in the meantime. They did that on Heroes with Mohinder's father (the book jacket photo), and on Babylon 5 with Sheridan's wife (in photos, and they may have had a stand-in in a brief flashback---old video message?--before they introduced her character into the story a year or two later).


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

vman said:


> I don't recall this (but could have forgotten) - are you saying Penny was originally played by someone else in an episode before Sonya Walger?


It was a different woman in the original photo, yes.



Alpinemaps said:


> Not exactly. They had used an actress in the picture that Desmond had with him when they first started showing Desmond in Season 2. They ended up with Sonya, and went back and reshot the picture, so that it was Sonya in the picture, not the actress/model that appeared in the initial picture with him.


Very similar. Shortly after Sheridan was introduced, his sister brought a 5-minute (maybe shorter) video clip of Anna. When they cast Melissa Gilbert, they reshot the 5-minute video with Melissa. In Lost, they reshot the picture of Desmond & Penny with Sonja Walger this time.

Greg


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

mmilton80 said:


> I wonder who will start the final LOST thread?





jlb said:


> I think we should have Jeff Keegan start it now, have the mods Locke....er ...lock it until Sunday evening.
> 
> Just sayin'





mulscully said:


> +1 :up:





michad said:


> I concur.
> 
> I'm only started the last two cus of the iPad-ease of posting and I still have that stigma of threadkiller.





astrohip said:


> You're welcome. But the thanks are owed to you. I read these threads all day long the first two or three days after each episode, and I always look forward to the 'jkeegan' posts. I'll come back several times a day until you finally post. Yeah, a lot of your ideas are stream-of-consciousness wacky, but that's half the fun. And when you're spot on with some observations, you're *really* spot on. Like slap-my-forehead how could I have missed that spot-on.
> 
> This is crazy. I woke up in the middle of the night last night, had a wild dream involving a good friend, a buffet table full of food, a handicapped person I accidentally insulted (in the dream, not IRL) and Jeff Fahey, who still looked like Lapidus. (Prolly a result of too much blotter 35 years ago, but that's another story.) IAC... as I lay in bed going WTF was THAT about, I started thinking about the last LOST thread, and how I really hoped someone "good" would start it, rather than some thread crapper ("uggh, I waited six years for that?"). My thoughts turned to Jeff as one of the more prolific and insightful (and positive) LOST posters.
> 
> ...


Aww, shucks..

I'm flattered. But unless a moderator tells me to start it and that they'll lock it, I'll just wait until an hour before the finale starts (per the rules) and post it then. (I agree about wanting it to start out positive.  ).. I remember back before we had the rule, people would post for hours before an episode even started, and we'd have to read through 5 pages of PRE-episode comments before even getting to the show!

78 hours, 29 minutes, 5 seconds left...


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

I'm starting to wish I had my RepRap Mendel completed (it's close, but won't be done by Sunday), so I could design and print out a solid 3D Dharma logo while the show was still on the air. I'll still do that once the show and my 3D printer are done, but it won't be quite the same.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

jkeegan said:


> Aww, shucks..
> 
> I'm flattered. But unless a moderator tells me to start it and that they'll lock it, I'll just wait until an hour before the finale starts (per the rules) and post it then. (I agree about wanting it to start out positive.  ).. I remember back before we had the rule, people would post for hours before an episode even started, and we'd have to read through 5 pages of PRE-episode comments before even getting to the show!
> 
> 78 hours, 29 minutes, 5 seconds left...


Could you or Would you start a thread in which we could talk about our memorable moments on Lost? Things that really made us go "YES I love this show!!"

No reveals for the final episode and yes, spoilers for the last six seasons.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

betts4 said:


> Could you or Would you start a thread in which we could talk about our memorable moments on Lost? Things that really made us go "YES I love this show!!"
> 
> No reveals for the final episode and yes, spoilers for the last six seasons.


I'd rather wait four days and do it right!


----------



## ronsch (Sep 7, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, that's pretty common...they don't hire an actor until they actually need one, and just use a fill-in for photos in the meantime. They did that on Heroes with Mohinder's father (the book jacket photo), and on Babylon 5 with Sheridan's wife (in photos, and they may have had a stand-in in a brief flashback---old video message?--before they introduced her character into the story a year or two later).





gchance said:


> It was a different woman in the original photo, yes.
> 
> Very similar. Shortly after Sheridan was introduced, his sister brought a 5-minute (maybe shorter) video clip of Anna. When they cast Melissa Gilbert, they reshot the 5-minute video with Melissa. In Lost, they reshot the picture of Desmond & Penny with Sonja Walger this time.
> 
> Greg


All right! A B5 smeek!

:up::up:


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

mmilton80 said:


> I was thinking the same thing. The only reason why I became active in the TiVo Community is because of LOST. It really has been a great ride. These threads have been a tremendous source of LOST knowledge.


Same here. At the beginning of season 2 a friend kept coming to work with all these observations I had missed, so he gave me the link.

Hurley's podcast is really good this week. Even funnier than usual and lots of tidbits from the script. Most of them have already been mentioned, but they also said that when Richard was flung by MiB the script said, " and that's that" instead of "and he's f'ing dead" like it usually does if someone dies. Some hope for Richard's return, I guess.

Also the script said that there is a rule that MiB (and Jacob/Jack too, I think) has to keep his word if he promises something. Referring to promising not to kill Penny, I guess. Seems like he's already broken that rule... Sidekick22 is with us all in wanting "The Big Lost Book of Rules" to be made available.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I'd rather wait four days and do it right!


Yeah, but what I was thinking was a thread seperate from talking about the last episode. But, whatever.


----------



## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

mmilton80 said:


> I was thinking the same thing. The only reason why I became active in the TiVo Community is because of LOST. It really has been a great ride. These threads have been a tremendous source of LOST knowledge.


Same with me. This is the only LOST forum I read because people on here are great and make good observations.

The day I brought my TiVo home was the day LOST's pilot was on. I set up a season pass for LOST and recorded the pilot. Six years later, it remains #1 on my season pass list. I can't believe I'll have to delete it soon. 

It definitely marks the end of an era for me. The only other show I've gotten so fanatically invested in was the X-Files.


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, that's pretty common...they don't hire an actor until they actually need one, and just use a fill-in for photos in the meantime.


Also, the first time Jack sees Christian in the distance, it's not John Terry.


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

I'm another one who was brought to the Tivo Community through Lost. Sometime early in Season 1, I googled some question, and it brought me here. It's been a great ride.

I know I've enjoyed Lost a lot more than I would have without the help of this group. So, I know I'll forget some, but thanks, GChance, JKeegan, Rob H., Hefe, DevDogAz, Turtleboy, Betts... and especially Fish Man, because his posts were the first ones I remember really impressing me.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I have enjoyed the discussions here much more than any other LOST forum and believe me, I have been to a lot of them! I think what I like most is that it is a small group - not 4,000 fans all trying to push their thoughts on to a board all at once. Some of you echo strongly what I was thinking about the episode and some give new insights. That is what makes it all fun!


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Yeah, TiVoCommunity is probably doomed when Lost ends.


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

aindik said:


> Both Jack and Michael were prevented from committing suicide while in the United States.


Yeah, but I'm thinking things might have changed once Jacob died.

The other possibility is if standing near a bomb that is about to go off doesn't count as committing suicide, perhaps drowning due to a bomb going off doesn't count either.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

BitbyBlit said:


> Yeah, but I'm thinking things might have changed once Jacob died.
> 
> The other possibility is if standing near a bomb that is about to go off doesn't count as committing suicide, perhaps drowning due to a bomb going off doesn't count either.


Standing near a bomb that is about to go off was considered suicide (or prevented for some other reason) when Jack and Richard tried it. Which was after Jacob died.

Anyway, I think what is and isn't suicide is about intent. Jin could have saved himself and decided not to.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, TiVoCommunity is probably doomed when Lost ends.


No, there are still rewatches and lots of tv shows coming up that we'll all say, "But it's no Lost". Endless comparisons to how these flashbacks were done so much better than those.

Never mind all the TV shows we'll watch solely because Josh Holloway or Henry Ian Cusick are in for 5 minutes.

There's a lot to talk about. 

Greg


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

NY Times critic slams LOST on the eve of the finale.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/21/arts/television/21lost.html



> In recent months "Lost" has felt less like a television series than like a gigantic international parlor game, in which the goal is to find answers to questions that often have no real connection to what's happening on screen. You need to take a step back, or 5 or 10, and look past this extraneous (if diverting) exercise to assess the actual show and its legacy.
> 
> Since "Lost" itself favors oracular pronouncements, here's one more: The show had one good season, its first. It was very, very good - as good as anything on television at the time - but none of the seasons since have approached that level, and the current sixth season, rushed, muddled and dull, has been the weakest.


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

aindik said:


> Standing near a bomb that is about to go off was considered suicide (or prevented for some other reason) when Jack and Richard tried it. Which was after Jacob died.


Right, but I'm thinking being on the island still allowed them to be protected after Jacob's death. When Jacob was alive, they were also able to be protected off of the island.

Otherwise MIB's plan rested on not only one of the candidates pulling the wires, but Sayid running away with the bomb. And he did seem surprised (albeit glad) that Desmond was still alive during this episode, so I'm not certain he was aware of Sayid's reversal, let alone planned on it.



aindik said:


> Anyway, I think what is and isn't suicide is about intent. Jin could have saved himself and decided not to.


Actually, maybe intent does play into it, but in a different manner. Jin wasn't trying to kill himself; he just wanted to save Sun. So even though he could have given up on Sun, and left earlier, perhaps that wasn't enough of a reason to consider his death a suicide by TPTB.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

aindik said:


> NY Times critic slams LOST on the eve of the finale.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/21/arts/television/21lost.html


That was posted to its own thread yesterday, and most of us disagreed with him. 

Greg


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

BitbyBlit said:


> Right, but I'm thinking being on the island still allowed them to be protected after Jacob's death. When Jacob was alive, they were also able to be protected off of the island.
> 
> Otherwise MIB's plan rested on not only one of the candidates pulling the wires, but Sayid running away with the bomb. And he did seem surprised (albeit glad) that Desmond was still alive during this episode, so I'm not certain he was aware of Sayid's reversal, let alone planned on it.
> 
> Actually, maybe intent does play into it, but in a different manner. Jin wasn't trying to kill himself; he just wanted to save Sun. So even though he could have given up on Sun, and left earlier, perhaps that wasn't enough of a reason to consider his death a suicide by TPTB.


Once it became clear that Sun was unsaveable, Jin transitioned from trying to save Sun to deciding to die with Sun.

Speaking of Sayid, are we to assume he was no longer a candidate by the time they got onto the sub?


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

gchance said:


> That was posted to its own thread yesterday, and most of us disagreed with him.
> 
> Greg


Ah, sorry. Never mind. I thought it was from today.


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

The great thing about Lost is that it is a caricature of itself. Like the island, some people simply enjoy the mystery; others want to study every detail to make sense of it; there are those who are confused, but are still going along for the ride; and some just want to leave, but can't.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

BitbyBlit said:


> The great thing about Lost is that it is a caricature of itself. Like the island, some people simply enjoy the mystery; others want to study every detail to make sense of it; there are those who are confused, but are still going along for the ride; and some just want to leave, but can't.


And people who ask too many questions get bludgeoned in the head with rocks.


----------



## ronsch (Sep 7, 2001)

aindik said:


> And people who ask too many questions get bludgeoned in the head with rocks.


:up::up:


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

aindik said:


> Once it became clear that Sun was unsaveable, Jin transitioned from trying to save Sun to deciding to die with Sun.


Even though Sun was encouraging him to go, maybe it would have been too late anyway. Also, his primary motivation was still to be with Sun as opposed to wanting to die, so maybe that made a difference. And the other times people were prevented from suicide, they were the cause of what would have otherwise killed them. So maybe candidates are allowed to let themselves die; they just can't be the cause of what kills them.



aindik said:


> Speaking of Sayid, are we to assume he was no longer a candidate by the time they got onto the sub?


I think he was a candidate, but allowed to die for the same reason as Jin. Either they were no longer protected or their deaths were not against the rules.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

ronsch said:


> All right! A B5 smeek!
> 
> :up::up:


Can't be.
It was declared earlier in this thread that no one watches B5.



BitbyBlit said:


> I think he was a candidate, but allowed to die for the same reason as Jin. Either they were no longer protected or their deaths were not against the rules.


Sayid's candidacy was probably revoked when he died and got infected.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

tewcewl said:


> The day I brought my TiVo home was the day LOST's pilot was on. I set up a season pass for LOST and recorded the pilot. Six years later, it remains #1 on my season pass list. I can't believe I'll have to delete it soon.


You don't have to delete it. 

I have all kinds of old stuff on mine. Cracks me up.


----------



## bigbrihaze (Jan 19, 2004)

Turtleboy said:


> What's Desmond's goal in the sideways reality? To destroy it? Once he makes people remember, then what?
> 
> If Hurley remembers who Anna Lucia is, does he also remember that in the Island reality Libby is dead? He can't possibly want that.


Desmond is the Constant, remember? He is The Constant for BOTH worlds instead of a single person. What he is doing now is making the alternated world folks realize their alternate path and thus merge the two times back together.


----------



## T-Wolves (Aug 22, 2000)

JYoung said:


> ...Sayid's candidacy was probably revoked when he died and got infected.


Speaking of that, I re-watched the first 2 episodes of the season last night, and when Sayid returns to life, he makes a point of thanking Jack. Jack says he had nothing to do with it. But we never really have found out how Sayid was resurrected, have we? What if Jack's new Jacobian powers include the ability to go back in time and resurrect dead people?

Another interesting note from the season opener -- Rose says to Jack on the plane: "You can let go now. It's OK to let go." Which is exactly what Desmond wants to tell Locke -- "It's OK to let go."

Also:
- In the opener, Jack goes to the plane's bathroom, and he is bleeding from the neck in the exact same spot as in this episode. Is that foreshadowing that Jack can expect a neck wound in the finale?
- Before Juliet died, she said she had to tell Sawyer something "really, really important." (that "it worked.") I wonder if this is something Sawyer will have to remember in the finale.
- Why is Miles still alive? Are we going to need to talk to dead people in the finale?
- Jack to Locke in the opener: "Nothing is irreversible." I wonder if we'll hear those words again on Sunday.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

tewcewl said:


> The day I brought my TiVo home was the day LOST's pilot was on. I set up a season pass for LOST and recorded the pilot. Six years later, it remains #1 on my season pass list. I can't believe I'll have to delete it soon.





uncdrew said:


> You don't have to delete it.


I'm normally pretty anal about deleting SPs once they are no longer good. I have a feeling LOST will remain on it until the TiVo dies.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

mqpickles said:


> I'm another one who was brought to the Tivo Community through Lost. Sometime early in Season 1, I googled some question, and it brought me here. It's been a great ride.
> 
> I know I've enjoyed Lost a lot more than I would have without the help of this group. So, I know I'll forget some, but thanks, GChance, JKeegan, Rob H., Hefe, DevDogAz, Turtleboy, Betts... and especially Fish Man, because his posts were the first ones I remember really impressing me.


You're welcome. And thanks to you and everyone else for your participation. It's been very enjoyable, and I know it's helped me enjoy the show on a much deeper level than I otherwise could have. 


BitbyBlit said:


> I think he was a candidate, but allowed to die for the same reason as Jin. Either they were no longer protected or their deaths were not against the rules.


I think Sun, Jin and Sayid died as a result of Sawyer pulling the wires on the bomb. The candidates can kill each other, and that's what happened.


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

aindik said:


> And people who ask too many questions get bludgeoned in the head with rocks.


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

gchance said:


> That was posted to its own thread yesterday, and most of us disagreed with him.
> 
> Greg


Not all of us though  Personally, I think that article is a tour de force.

(I also don't agree with the characterization of the article as a "slam" on Lost. The author admits that Lost turned him, a television critic, into a "semiprofessional fan.")


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Bananfish said:


> Not all of us though


Hence the word "most". 

Greg


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Many thanks to Rob H, J Keeg and the many others whose thoughtfull posts over the seasons have made LOST much more enjoyable and understandable (well to a degree) for me.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

BitbyBlit said:


> ... MIB's plan rested on not only one of the candidates pulling the wires, but Sayid running away with the bomb. planned on it.


 Clearly, MiB did NOT plan on Sayid running to the other end of the sub with the bomb (Iraqi suicide bomber?), as that allowed some of the candidates the opportunity for survival.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

getreal said:


> Clearly, MiB did NOT plan on Sayid running to the other end of the sub with the bomb (*Iraqi suicide bomber*?), as that allowed some of the candidates the opportunity for survival.


You are a bad, bad person.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Did Jacob visit Jimmy Kimmel?


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

philw1776 said:


> Many thanks to Rob H, J Keeg and the many others whose thoughtfull posts over the seasons have made LOST much more enjoyable and understandable (well to a degree) for me.


As one of the "many others," you are welcome. 

Btw, best of everything on Monday morning.


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

JYoung said:


> Did Jacob visit Jimmy Kimmel?


I kept looking at the numbers on all the instrument cases.


----------



## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> You're welcome. And thanks to you and everyone else for your participation. It's been very enjoyable, and I know it's helped me enjoy the show on a much deeper level than I otherwise could have.
> 
> I think Sun, Jin and Sayid died as a result of Sawyer pulling the wires on the bomb. The candidates can kill each other, and that's what happened.





philw1776 said:


> Many thanks to Rob H, J Keeg and the many others whose thoughtfull posts over the seasons have made LOST much more enjoyable and understandable (well to a degree) for me.


I love how this thread is half-"What they died for" and half-"what a ride I can't believe it's almost over." It really has been quite a trip, and I can appreciate that at this point many of us are at a "coming to grips that it will be gone" moment even more than a "what does so and so mean?" (of which I'm guilty of in this thread.)

FYI, for all those questions about Lost parties you see around the web? My LOST party is watching with my wife and running up to the computer to see what you guys say, aka what I've done since the pilot episode.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

It's just a TV show.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

I turned down multiple Lost parties because i want to watch it with Laurie like we've watched all of the episodes (and I don't want to be at a theater with people saying "who's that? What he can talk to dead people?? Oh please" etc). But I did agree to let a friend come over at midnight for a rewatch.


----------



## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

uncdrew said:


> It's just a TV show.


Yeah, and TiVo is just a DVR... what's your point?


----------



## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

JYoung said:


> Did Jacob visit Jimmy Kimmel?


I was at the taping of this Jimmy Kimmel show... Josh Holloway was one of the guests. I did have a moment that I felt like quite the nerd - when we were standing in line we could see Josh Holloway arriving; I found myself yelling and waving along with all the women and girls. 

I was a good time... OT; I would recommend the Jimmy Kimmel Show to anyone coming to LA and wants to catch a TV show taping - or I guess even if you live local. The show is located right on Hollywood Blvd across from the Chinese Theater so you can make an afternoon out of it, parking is easy at the Hollywood & Highland structure and they validate your parking at the show (though the traffic in that area sucks, welcome to LA). We only had to wait in line for about an hour (we were fifth in line so we could have easily spent less time in line and still gotten in).

I've been to tapings of other shows and never had it go quite so smoothly; usually parking is a hassle with lots of walking and lots of waiting around and with nothing to do but wait.


----------



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

I hope the final episode ties in and explains what happened to Marshall, Will, and Holly.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Philosofy said:


> I hope the final episode ties in and explains what happened to Marshall, Will, and Holly.


At least they had pylons, a monster, and storms!  Desmond's sailing due east and arriving back at the island was similar to them taking a raft downstream and continually passing the point where they started, too. Oh, and there was time travel. And it's got the word Lost in the title. And they both have a dinosaur named Dopey that carries carts with huge strawberries.

Ok, strike that last one.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jkeegan said:


> And they both have a dinosaur named Dopey that carries carts with huge strawberries.
> 
> Ok, strike that last one.


Hey! Not over yet! Ya never know...


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Hey! Not over yet! Ya never know...


If they go there, I will delete my season pass.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

danterner said:


> If they go there, I will delete my season pass.


Some people are just SO fickle...


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## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

Any good theories on why this episode was titled "What They Died For"?


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

Well, back when the aliens created the island, and were the protectors before humans had evolved to the point where they could become protectors themselves, what other kind of animal could they get other than dinosaurs to haul around strawberries? Just saying....


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

A live stream of some dudes watching LOST for 94 hours straight.
http://www.livestream.com/lostathon


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> Any good theories on why this episode was titled "What They Died For"?


Yes, it's a quote from Jacob in the episode


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

30 hours, 49 minutes left.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

jkeegan said:


> 30 hours, 49 minutes left.


There's gotta be a widget for that that admins could install somewhere.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

BitbyBlit said:


> The great thing about Lost is that it is a caricature of itself. Like the island, some people simply enjoy the mystery; others want to study every detail to make sense of it; there are those who are confused, but are still going along for the ride; and some just want to leave, but can't.


I like this. Yep. And what I have found is that I have been all of those people at various times during the seasons. One episode I 'get' and then the next one has me scratching my head and another one makes me 'yeah, just go with it'.

My summer project will be to watch it from season one but a few episodes a week (or a few all in one weekend).


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## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

So...before the finale comes on, I've been thinking more about the sideways world, and the things we learned this week.

- We know that Desmond is Jacob's ultimate 'fail-safe'. So, is the sideways world the result of Demond? Or something that's going in his head?

- Jack is now 'like [Jacob]'. That being the case - is the sideways world Jack's doing? We've speculated that it was Jacob's doing...maybe it's Jack's?


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

astrohip said:


> I'm normally pretty anal about deleting SPs once they are no longer good. I have a feeling LOST will remain on it until the TiVo dies.


I still have my Journeyman SP active.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

dianebrat said:


> I still have my Journeyman SP active.


You should change your name to Cleopatra.

Queen of Denial.


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

Just for kicks, attempting to start a twitter trending topic for the weekend... #lostquotes. Let's see if we can get it on trending topics for the weekend! Oh, and follow me @rubofthegreen


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

As usual, I'm confused. One week I'm feeling really bad for Ben/Dr Linus. Daughter issues in the best sense with his student. The hint of a little 'something' with Alex's Mom, Rousseau. And the great scene with Illana where he seemingly redeemed himself. But now, apparently the self serving, lying twit is ready to do FLocke's evil bidding, or is he, hated rival Widmore aside?. Wonder how Ben feels now that FLocke says he's out to destroy the island? Dude?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

jking said:


> Just for kicks, attempting to start a twitter trending topic for the weekend... #lostquotes. Let's see if we can get it on trending topics for the weekend! Oh, and follow me @rubofthegreen


Tried throwing a bunch out there..


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> As usual, I'm confused. One week I'm feeling really bad for Ben/Dr Linus. Daughter issues in the best sense with his student. The hint of a little 'something' with Alex's Mom, Rousseau. And the great scene with Illana where he seemingly redeemed himself. But now, apparently the self serving, lying twit is ready to do FLocke's evil bidding, or is he, hated rival Widmore aside?. Wonder how Ben feels now that FLocke says he's out to destroy the island? Dude?


I can tell you one thing about Ben that never changes, he's got a plan. I'm not sure if he's gone back to the dark side, or if it's just a con, but there's a plan.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

I can honestly say I've never been on Ben's side. He's a great character for sure, and amazingly well acted.

But I've never rooted for him or liked him much.


If I ranked the characters I liked, it would go something like:

Hurley
Kate's Boobs
Sawyer
.
.
.
.
Ben
Kelvin Inman
Stuart Radinsky


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

7 hours, 30 minutes.. (or 5 hours 30 minutes until the 2hr distraction).

My next two hours is the 2nd 2-hour dance recital of the day. My daughter Emily is in the 23rd group to perform.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Looking at YouTube vids of favorite scenes and what others have gathered. Moments that were done just perfectly in the acting/directing/filming. What made LOST so good.

The end of Walkabout when we see that Locke is in a wheelchair. And realize the Island healed him.

Sawyer and Kate in the cage having wild last sex before we die.

Jack watching the Red Sox win.

Juliet hitting Sawyer when he is digging and now knowing they will be married and very much in love.

Them all meeting once again on the beach. No words, just wonderful music. 

Sawyer on the raft. Tropical wind whipping in his hair. Hours later, Sawyer in the water with Michael and the whole Dharma shark scene.

Charlie hanging in the tree....our hearts stopped. And Jack saving him.

When Locke looks up at the smoke monster and smiles!


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

betts4 said:


> Looking at YouTube vids of favorite scenes and what others have gathered. Moments that were done just perfectly in the acting/directing/filming. What made LOST so good.
> 
> The end of Walkabout when we see that Locke is in a wheelchair. And realize the Island healed him.
> 
> ...


One that sticks out in my mind is the "raft farewell" scene. I teared up during that.

The Rose & Bernard reunion was another.


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## Keith_R90210 (Jul 26, 2003)

Each of those scenes is great. I'm excited for tonight but saddened at the same time. The one thing I will really miss about this show and one which I feel sets it apart from the rest, is the amazing threads that would go for pages long on this board.

I fell out of the discussions and haven't participated for a long time (just not enough time in the day) but I always have appreciated the great community that this show has and I'll be sad to see that go.

I re-watched the past three episodes over the past two days. The first part of the finale was outstanding and I felt as though it completely sets us up for what is to come. Finally it has come to this which has been building since way early on in the series...the showdown between Jack and Locke(MIB). The fire scene with Jacob was crucial and as others have mentioned the answer to Kate's Q was perfect. I'm interested in seeing how this whole sideways story plot ties up since I haven't really seen a plausible explanation for all the sideways stuff, nor do I really see a clear-cut direction to which it is going.

I know I'm in the minority here, but upon re-watching the Jacob episode from two weeks back, I like it. Finally a real explanation for the whole Jacob thing and the origins of the smoke. Plus, as others have noted it validates the purpose of what Jacob is doing with our 815 survivors.

The "death" of Richard seemed rather fast to me and I don't think that is the end of him. 

I think that is all from me. 

Can't wait for tonight!


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

betts4 said:


> When Locke looks up at the smoke monster and smiles!


Locke wasn't looking up at the smoke monster there.

He described to Eko what he saw (can't remember description, but beautiful, I think something about light, etc). Eko's response (Eko had seen the smoke monster): "That is NOT what I saw..."

Betts, you might have the distinction of being the last person I corrected about lost before the show was over! Lucky you!!


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

jkeegan said:


> Locke wasn't looking up at the smoke monster there.
> 
> He described to Eko what he saw (can't remember description, but beautiful, I think something about light, etc). Eko's response (Eko had seen the smoke monster): "That is NOT what I saw..."
> 
> Betts, you might have the distinction of being the last person I corrected about lost before the show was over! Lucky you!!


That's not what I remember. I remember the look Locke had on his face.

I guess, it's more the smoke monster is looking down at him....

Looking it up - from Lostpedia -

Locke was also the first survivor to see the Monster; he was out tracking boar with Michael and Kate, when it seemed to be closing in on him. The confrontation is presented from the viewpoint of the Monster. *Locke later told Jack: "I looked into the eye of this Island, and what I saw... was beautiful."* ("White Rabbit") He later described the "Monster" as a "bright light" to Eko, who only replied curtly "that is not what I saw". As a result of this incident, Locke came to think of the Island as an entity unto itself with a plan for them all. This account of seeing the Monster seems to be similar to what would later be seen between Juliet and the Monster. ("Walkabout")

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=TaqbyekJHHs&feature=related

I need to go let the dog out one last time and settle myself in for some fun.

See you in another life, brother!


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

I watched the hours of DVD extras from the first five seasons last night and today. Good times. I don't want it to end.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

betts4 said:


> That's not what I remember. I remember the smile of joy that Locke had on his face.
> 
> I guess, it's more the smoke monster is looking down at him....
> 
> ...


Lostpedia is just written by people. Mistakes like assuming he saw "the monster" are common there.

Trust the transcript. He described what he saw, and Eko said that was NOT what he saw. That was pretty clear. Yes he was looking up, and his script direction said he was looking at "the most beautiful thing he'd ever seen" (might not be exact), but Eko made it clear - in that scene Locke hadn't seen what Eko saw.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

jkeegan said:


> Lostpedia is just written by people. Mistakes like assuming he saw "the monster" are common there.
> 
> Trust the transcript. He described what he saw, and Eko said that was NOT what he saw. That was pretty clear. Yes he was looking up, and his script direction said he was looking at "the most beautiful thing he'd ever seen" (might not be exact), but Eko made it clear - in that scene Locke hadn't seen what Eko saw.


I know....I mean I know what Eko said, but what's to say that how he (and others) viewed the Smokey was not how Locked did. I took it to mean was that Locke was seeing the monster in a totally different way than anyone else. He was seeing something about Smokey that others didn't see. Something that made him not fear it. /shrug/ anyway, this is what made me much less surprised that Locke was picked by Smokey/MiB to be his new body.

Maybe it wasn't Smokey that Locke saw, but maybe the beautiful part of the island (bright cave) but I always thought it out as Locke was a different man then Eko so maybe they viewed the monster differently.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Isn't this fun!! Still, down to the wire of the finale and we can discuss stuff!!!


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

betts4 said:


> I always thought it out as Locke was a different man then Eko so maybe they viewed the monster differently.


This. I just watched that particular episode last night. From what I remember they even had the Smokey sound effects.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Peter000 said:


> This. I just watched that particular episode last night. From what I remember they even had the Smokey sound effects.


Yeah I'm not saying it wasn't like a smoke monster, I'm saying it wasn't the black smoke monster we've been seeing.

Watching S3 The Cost of Living right now:

Locke: I saw it once ya know!
Eko: (irritated) and what did you see?
Locke: I saw a very bright light. It was beautiful!
Eko: (shakes his head no) That is NOT what I saw.

Starting recap show now. See you all on the other side!


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Well, there you go. According to Lindelof on the recap show, Locke saw the monster. No mention of why Locke saw it as light and beautiful.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Ah, how sweet the vindication.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

Fool Me Twice said:


> According to Lindelof on the recap show, Locke saw the monster


Only one person I've ever run across understood it any differently.


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

wprager said:


> There's gotta be a widget for that that admins could install somewhere.


They did, it's the jkeegan widget.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Hunter Green said:


> They did, it's the jkeegan widget.


-14 hours, 15 minutes


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> -14 hours, 15 minutes




Greg


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