# Once Upon a Time - "The Stranger" - S01E20 - 4/29/2012



## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Hate to say it, but I agree with Emma. That wasn't a very convincing argument on his part. But if she's not going to believe him, then she should find out how he knows what he does (blanket, etc). My guess is that her true love for Henry will make her break through the denial.

I will give myself a pat on the back for figuring out Pinocchio in the cabinet with the candlestick... I mean red hat. I did like the underhanded dealings by Geppetto with the Fairy, and the addition of that part of the backstory to what we already knew.

Interesting that Pinocchio left Emma, but I don't know how much protecting he could have done with that winner of a foster father.


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## Doggie Bear (Jan 16, 2008)

Our recording got clipped with about a minute left. What happened after Emma got together with Henry?


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Emma asked him if he wanted to get away from Regina and live with her, he said "more than anything". She said buckle up, he asked where they were going, and she said "We're leaving Storybrooke" and drove off with him in the car.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

I am not clear on one thing...

Why is August's leg turning back to wood? Isn't he being brave, truthful, etc?


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

I know some people didn't want August to be Pinocchio , but I thought it fit as well as anything else has. I just kept waiting for his nose to grow.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

markz said:


> I am not clear on one thing...
> 
> Why is August's leg turning back to wood? Isn't he being brave, truthful, etc?


As a boy he left Emma to fend for herself. And when she hit 28, he was partying on the other side of the world.

He probably has termites.  Wouldn't it be funnier if instead of a writer, he was a pest control guy?


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## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

markz said:


> I am not clear on one thing...
> 
> Why is August's leg turning back to wood? Isn't he being brave, truthful, etc?


I'm not really clear on whether his leg isn't really turning back to wood, but he thinks it is out of guilt, or if it really is changing, but Emma can't see it out of denial.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

martinp13 said:


> As a boy he left Emma to fend for herself. And when she hit 28, he was partying on the other side of the world.
> 
> He probably has termites.  Wouldn't it be funnier if instead of a writer, he was a pest control guy?


Just seems like 28 years is a long time for it to start affecting him from leaving her.

It _would _be funny if he was a pest control guy!


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

martinp13 said:


> Emma asked him if he wanted to get away from Regina and live with her, he said "more than anything". She said buckle up, he asked where they were going, and she said "We're leaving Storybrooke" and drove off with him in the car.


Thanks for this. Mine also cut off. I finally figured out that both tuners have something to record at 9, and they both have "Start 1 minute early", and Dish DVR doesn't do "soft padding" so it cuts away, and that's why I miss the end of this show every week. Fixed that, but with only 1 episode to go.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Shakhari said:


> I'm not really clear on whether his leg isn't really turning back to wood, but he thinks it is out of guilt, or if it really is changing, but Emma can't see it out of denial.


I forgot to mention that last night. They left us with that nagging bit of doubt. Even we the audience don't know which is "the truth". He sees it as wood, she sees it as skin. He says "I'm sick" and "I'm dying", but hasn't explained why he thinks that.

My personal opinion is that he's right, and it's wood. The pain thing/seizure thing pushes me that way. Also, in FTL they didn't know what would happen to Pinocchio on the other side. Maybe some FTL magic fades over time in our world. It's really a coin flip/script revision.


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## LooseWiring (Jan 6, 2003)

Okay, was it just my own perverse nature or was the Blue Fairy letting it ALL hang out last night?

I thought it was just me until Julie looked up and said "Woah!".


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

markz said:


> I am not clear on one thing...
> 
> Why is August's leg turning back to wood? Isn't he being brave, truthful, etc?


Magic made him a real boy, lack of magic is what is turning him to wood.

The curse was coming which would make magic no longer exist and turn Fairy Tale Land into Storybrooke. FTL doesn't exist anymore, only Storybrooke. Pinnochio has been in the real world (outside of Storybrooke) for the last 28 years.

Lost reference of the night: Phuket.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

LooseWiring said:


> Okay, was it just my own perverse nature or was the Blue Fairy letting it ALL hang out last night?
> 
> I thought it was just me until Julie looked up and said "Woah!".


That was my favorite scene.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

LooseWiring said:


> Okay, was it just my own perverse nature or was the Blue Fairy letting it ALL hang out last night?
> 
> I thought it was just me until Julie looked up and said "Woah!".


Yeah, lots of gratuitous fairy boob shots last night. Not up close, but that outfit left zero to the imagination.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

LooseWiring said:


> Okay, was it just my own perverse nature or was the Blue Fairy letting it ALL hang out last night?
> 
> I thought it was just me until Julie looked up and said "Woah!".


I admit, I made a comment about blue fairy boobs to my wife!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

tiams said:


> The curse was coming which would make magic no longer exist and turn Fairy Tale Land into Storybrooke. FTL doesn't exist anymore, only Storybrooke. Pinnochio has been in the real world (outside of Storybrooke) for the last 28 years.


It's not the curse that makes magic not exist in our world, it's the fact that magic doesn't exist in our world (which is why Mr Gold's son wanted to come here). FTL didn't become Storybrooke; Storybrooke is where the FTL characters were transported.

How to reconcile the fact that magic doesn't exist in our world with the fact that magic seems to exist in our world is an open question. One which, hopefully, has an answer beyond a writer's "oops." Perhaps bringing magical beings here brought (some) magic into our world?


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

tiams said:


> Lost reference of the night: Phuket.


Also, when Pinocchio first entered our world and an airliner flew overhead - was that an Oceanic emblem on the tail? Hard to tell but I think it was.

He also mentioned 8:15 but we've probably already noted that.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It's not the curse that makes magic not exist in our world, it's the fact that magic doesn't exist in our world (which is why Mr Gold's son wanted to come here). FTL didn't become Storybrooke; Storybrooke is where the FTL characters were transported.
> 
> How to reconcile the fact that magic doesn't exist in our world with the fact that magic seems to exist in our world is an open question. One which, hopefully, has an answer beyond a writer's "oops." Perhaps bringing magical beings here brought (some) magic into our world?


The curse is why there is no magic in Storybrooke. They have said that. 
Storybrooke is Fairy Tale Land without magic.

Storybrooke is what Fairy Tale Land became, it is not the real world. Our world contains places like Boston and Phuket. Storybrooke is a self-contained place that nobody who was in Fairy Tale Land at the time of the curse can leave. Just like Fairy Tale Characters could not leave Fairy Tale Land without and enchanted wardrobe.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It's not the curse that makes magic not exist in our world, it's the fact that magic doesn't exist in our world (which is why Mr Gold's son wanted to come here). FTL didn't become Storybrooke; Storybrooke is where the FTL characters were transported.
> 
> How to reconcile the fact that magic doesn't exist in our world with the fact that magic seems to exist in our world is an open question. One which, hopefully, has an answer beyond a writer's "oops." Perhaps bringing magical beings here brought (some) magic into our world?


Mr. Gold's son isn't in Storybrooke. Storybrooke didn't exist until the curse.


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## LooseWiring (Jan 6, 2003)

tiams said:


> The curse is why there is no magic in Storybrooke. They have said that.
> Storybrooke is Fairy Tale Land without magic.
> 
> Storybrooke is what Fairy Tale Land became, it is not the real world. Our world contains places like Boston and Phuket. Storybrooke is a self-contained place that nobody who was in Fairy Tale Land at the time of the curse can leave. Just like Fairy Tale Characters could not leave Fairy Tale Land without and enchanted wardrobe.


Then how did Henry & Emma get there? How did Emma & August drive out to the diner?


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

LooseWiring said:


> Then how did Henry & Emma get there? How did Emma & August drive out to the diner?


Emma and August are not part of the curse because they were transported out of FTL in the enchanted wardrobe before the curse. They were not transported to Storybrooke, they were transported to the real world.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

tiams said:


> Emma and August are not part of the curse because they were transported out of FTL in the enchanted wardrobe before the curse. They were not transported to Storybrooke, they were transported to the real world.


And they drove to Storybrooke. Busses go there. Henry was able to leave.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Ereth said:


> And they drove to Storybrooke. Busses go there. Henry was able to leave.


Right, because Henry was never in FTL.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

martinp13 said:


> I forgot to mention that last night. They left us with that nagging bit of doubt. Even we the audience don't know which is "the truth". He sees it as wood, she sees it as skin. He says "I'm sick" and "I'm dying", but hasn't explained why he thinks that.
> 
> My personal opinion is that he's right, and it's wood. The pain thing/seizure thing pushes me that way. Also, in FTL they didn't know what would happen to Pinocchio on the other side. Maybe some FTL magic fades over time in our world. It's really a coin flip/script revision.


Or August's condition is strictly psychosomatic due to his guilt about not doing what he was supposed to.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

tiams said:


> Right, because Henry was never in FTL.


But you seem to be arguing that Storybrooke is NOT part of the real world. Yet you can drive to and from the real world to it, which contradicts your position that Storybrooke isn't part of the real world.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

Ereth said:


> But you seem to be arguing that Storybrooke is NOT part of the real world. Yet you can drive to and from the real world to it, which contradicts your position that Storybrooke isn't part of the real world.


It's at least connected to the real world, such that real world people (or Emma and Pinochio) can enter and leave it at will.

But (some) magic clearly works there (after all something held time unmoving for 28 years, Regina killed the huntsman by crushing his remote heart, and Emma apparently did fix the Mad Hatter's hat) and the cursed inhabitants are unable to leave. So it doesn't seem to be entirely the real word.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Ereth said:


> But you seem to be arguing that Storybrooke is NOT part of the real world. Yet you can drive to and from the real world to it, which contradicts your position that Storybrooke isn't part of the real world.


I'm not sure what it is you don't understand. The only people who have come to Storybrooke from the outside world are relatives of Fairy Tale characters. Pinnochio and Emma would have lived in Fairy Tale Land if they had not been transported out. Henry would have been born there. Thats what allows them to enter Storybrooke. Outsiders don't drive into Storybrooke. Storybrooke is not like the real world where Emma and Pinnochio grew up. It is a cursed place where time didn't even move until Emma showed up. Nobody who was cursed can leave.


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## lodica1967 (Aug 5, 2003)

tiams said:


> I'm not sure what it is you don't understand. The only people who have come to Storybrooke from the outside world are relatives of Fairy Tale characters. Pinnochio and Emma would have lived in Fairy Tale Land if they had not been transported out. Henry would have been born there. Thats what allows them to enter Storybrooke. Outsiders don't drive into Storybrooke. Storybrooke is not like the real world where Emma and Pinnochio grew up. It is a cursed place where time didn't even move until Emma showed up. Nobody who was cursed can leave.


Even the intro says that the FT characters were banished to "our world". There may be special rules but it is still the "real world".


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

lodica1967 said:


> Even the intro says that the FT characters were banished to "our world". There may be special rules but it is still the "real world".


The intro is not canon and not written by the writers. It also said only one knows the truth and that wasn't true either. In the real world, does time stand still?


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## lodica1967 (Aug 5, 2003)

So your argument is that they remain in Fairy Tale Land and not out world? (Just trying to understand your opinion)


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

lodica1967 said:


> So your argument is that they remain in Fairy Tale Land and not out world? (Just trying to understand your opinion)


Storybrooke is Fairy Tale Land. Just cursed.


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## lodica1967 (Aug 5, 2003)

tiams said:


> Storybrooke is Fairy Tale Land. Just cursed.


And you don't believe that Storybrooke is in our world?


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

tiams said:


> I'm not sure what it is you don't understand. The only people who have come to Storybrooke from the outside world are relatives of Fairy Tale characters. Pinnochio and Emma would have lived in Fairy Tale Land if they had not been transported out. Henry would have been born there. Thats what allows them to enter Storybrooke. Outsiders don't drive into Storybrooke. Storybrooke is not like the real world where Emma and Pinnochio grew up. It is a cursed place where time didn't even move until Emma showed up. Nobody who was cursed can leave.


Who was driving the bus that Henry used to leave Storybrooke to go to Boston to find Emma? Just the fact that there WAS a bus implies a regular bus route, with people.

Now, you can argue that that's a plot hole if you want, but to argue that Storybrooke isn't a place where people COULD go is silly. At the very least they can make phone calls to there, so the phone company has to have people to run cables, right? Or how else would David's wife have manage to get a job interview out of town?


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

tiams said:


> The intro is not canon and not written by the writers. It also said only one knows the truth and that wasn't true either. In the real world, does time stand still?


I don't know if time stands still, but my town seems to be about 5 years behind everywhere else.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Ereth said:


> Who was driving the bus that Henry used to leave Storybrooke to go to Boston to find Emma?


Maybe he walked to the outskirts of town and got on the bus there; I don't know.


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## lodica1967 (Aug 5, 2003)

markz said:


> I don't know if time stands still, but my town seems to be about 5 years behind everywhere else.


Now THAT was funny!:up:


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

lodica1967 said:


> And you don't believe that Storybrooke is in our world?


Not anymore than Fairy Tale Land was. Fairy Tale Land turned into Storybrooke when it was cursed.


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## LooseWiring (Jan 6, 2003)

tiams said:


> Storybrooke is Fairy Tale Land. Just cursed.


And what about the fact that Henry, Emma, & August can come and go as they please? And that Pinnochio and Emma, who were transported to "the real world", can just drive/walk/crawl back into it without knowing it?

Not to mention the postal workers & others can just come and go as they please? Or do packages get delivered and telecommunications & power cables get laid all on their own?

The problem is that there are some really severe inconsistencies introduced with the whole concept of there being *NO* magic in the real world.

If so, what kept this small town LOCATED IN THE REAL WORLD locked in time for 28 years? What kept the real world from noticing a town just appearing all of a sudden?

Too many LOST-style plot holes. Head hurts now...


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## oscarfish (Mar 2, 2009)

Didn't Rumples son use a magic bean to go somewhere without magic? I can't remember exactly what was stated, but I got the impression that it was to our world. If so, then FTL and our world coexist.

And Pinocchio disappeared from the cabinet thing before the curse hit. He had to go somewhere.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Okay so this wasn't as bad as I had feared. At least they explained why he was not a part of the curse and could come and go as Emma could. I should have known he'd be the 7 year old. I even remember other people making the comment but for whatever reason my brain was separating the two as either the boy who found her or as Pinocchio. I think Geppetto screwed them all just to save him too. Had he not sent a boy over to make sure Emma came around to save them in 28 years then Snow would have went, right? So she would have just grown up with the truth.

I also assume that August was right, that she's in denial by not seeing his wooden leg. BTW, did they explain how he got the name August? Did he make it up as a boy? Did he make it up as an adult and has another name from when he was in foster care? I'm sure he wasn't all "hey my name is Pinocchio" when he was found. Also how is his eyes so freaking blue as an adult but look brown as a kid? Redhead with freckles as a child now dark hair and blue eyes. Ugh.

And I was about to throw something at the screen when EQ was trying to kiss on David. (yes, I'm going to call her that at will even when she's being Regina because she has her memories so she knows she's the EQ and so do we) I half expected him to go for it as dumb as he is.

And why is MM and Regina playing games? Do they not remember when MM said "I didn't kill Katherine" and Regina said "I know"?? How the hell is Regina trying to be coy about it talking about Sydney confessing? That scene bugged me.

Not enough Gold but I pretty much always think that on episodes that don't feature him.  I did enjoy this awesome smirk, so there's that.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

oscarfish said:


> Didn't Rumples son use a magic bean to go somewhere without magic? I can't remember exactly what was stated, but I got the impression that it was to our world. If so, then FTL and our world coexist.


That's actually evidence that Storybrook is in our world. To get from FTL to our world takes fairly spectacular magic...as far as we know, it's only been accomplished three times...ones with the beans and twice with the cabinet, whose magic was used up by those trips. Plus once for the curse, which apparently destroyed FTL.

Getting from Storybrook to our world is trivial, although the curse seems to make it more difficult for FTL folk to manage. But as LooseWiring points out, the trip is made routinely.

The curse made Storybrook a different kind of place in ways that are not entirely clear. But it IS clear that it is a different kind of place _in our world_.


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## lodica1967 (Aug 5, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The curse made Storybrook a different kind of place in ways that are not entirely clear. But it *IS *clear that it is a different kind of place _in our world_.


Thanks! I totally agree and was trying to type a response but you said everything I wanted to say.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Storybrooke IS Fairy Tale Land. When Fairy Tale land was cursed, it became Storybrooke. The characters weren't sent to our world. In other words, if the curse were lifted, Storybrooke would fall away and they would be back in Fairy Tale Land, not some town in Maine. Storybrooke is not part of our world, it only exists because of the curse.


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## oscarfish (Mar 2, 2009)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That's actually evidence that Storybrook is in our world. To get from FTL to our world takes fairly spectacular magic...as far as we know, it's only been accomplished three times...ones with the beans and twice with the cabinet, whose magic was used up by those trips. Plus once for the curse, which apparently destroyed FTL.


That's the way it looks to me, but with two not sures. The Mad Hatter didn't use the bean or the cabinet, and do we know the curse destroyed FTL? I have been assuming that FTL was still there, but the people got moved to Storybrooke. If there was no way to get back to FTL, why would the buxom fairy want to send Emma + Snow to our world?


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That's actually evidence that Storybrook is in our world. To get from FTL to our world takes fairly spectacular magic...as far as we know, it's only been accomplished three times...ones with the beans and twice with the cabinet, whose magic was used up by those trips. Plus once for the curse, which apparently destroyed FTL.
> 
> Getting from Storybrook to our world is trivial, although the curse seems to make it more difficult for FTL folk to manage. But as LooseWiring points out, the trip is made routinely.
> 
> The curse made Storybrook a different kind of place in ways that are not entirely clear. But it IS clear that it is a different kind of place _in our world_.


Storybrooke and Fairy Tale Land are the same place. Fairy Tale Land was cursed.

The only people who left Fairy Tale Land (Baelfire, Pinnochio, Emma) were sent to our world, not Storybrooke. Storybrooke didn't exist before the curse.

Fairy Tale Land is not destroyed, it is cursed. If it were destroyed, these characters would never be able to return once the curse is lifted.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

oscarfish said:


> That's the way it looks to me, but with two not sures. The Mad Hatter didn't use the bean or the cabinet, and do we know the curse destroyed FTL? I have been assuming that FTL was still there, but the people got moved to Storybrooke. If there was no way to get back to FTL, why would the buxom fairy want to send Emma + Snow to our world?


I say "destroyed" because when they showed the curse taking effect, it looked like FTL was being wiped out. My assumption is that FTL will be recreated by the breaking of the curse.


tiams said:


> Storybrooke and Fairy Tale Land are the same place. Fairy Tale Land was cursed.
> 
> The only people who left Fairy Tale Land (Baelfire, Pinnochio, Emma) were sent to our world, not Storybrooke. Storybrooke didn't exist before the curse.


Wow, you must be living in some kind of fairy-tale land!


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## lodica1967 (Aug 5, 2003)

tiams said:


> Storybrooke and Fairy Tale Land are the same place. Fairy Tale Land was cursed.
> 
> The only people who left Fairy Tale Land (Baelfire, Pinnochio, Emma) were sent to our world, not Storybrooke. Storybrooke didn't exist before the curse.
> 
> Fairy Tale Land is not destroyed, it is cursed. If it were destroyed, these characters would never be able to return once the curse is lifted.


We may be saying almost the same thing. I think the characters that were *banished* to *our world* by the curse will either:

1. Return to FTL once the curse is broken 
2. Live Happily Ever After in Storybrooke
3. Be able to leave Storybrooke
4. Or some combination of the above based on which character we are talking about.

We just seem to disagree on where Storybrooke is in the current story.


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## oscarfish (Mar 2, 2009)

tiams said:


> Storybrooke and Fairy Tale Land are the same place. Fairy Tale Land was cursed.
> 
> The only people who left Fairy Tale Land (Baelfire, Pinnochio, Emma) were sent to our world, not Storybrooke. Storybrooke didn't exist before the curse.
> 
> Fairy Tale Land is not destroyed, it is cursed. If it were destroyed, these characters would never be able to return once the curse is lifted.


This is not the way I have been thinking about it, but you could be right. You have addressed the issue of where Baelfire was between the time he used the magic bean and when the curse happened.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

tiams said:


> Storybrooke and Fairy Tale Land are the same place. Fairy Tale Land was cursed.
> 
> The only people who left Fairy Tale Land (Baelfire, Pinnochio, Emma) were sent to our world, not Storybrooke. Storybrooke didn't exist before the curse.
> 
> Fairy Tale Land is not destroyed, it is cursed. If it were destroyed, these characters would never be able to return once the curse is lifted.


How do you know this? We have not seen FTL since the swirly winds in the first episode after Emma disappeared into the cabinet. It may be cursed, it may be destroyed, it may look like a hurricane went though... heck, it may not even exist. We have no idea. And we don't know if the characters will ever make it back to FTL.

And honestly, we don't know what Storybrooke is. Between the ambiguous story of "frozen in time" and "our world", and the seeming plot holes of city buses, bosomy fairies, job interviews, bean worlds, wooden legs, and occasional magic... who the hell knows what it all is. I've kind of come up with my personal idea (I'm sure we all have), but I can't prove any of it. I disagree with tiams about 80%, but either of us could be right (or neither of us!).


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I say "destroyed" because when they showed the curse taking effect, it looked like FTL was being wiped out. My assumption is that FTL will be recreated by the breaking of the curse.
> 
> Wow, you must be living in some kind of fairy-tale land!


You don't have to make disparaging remarks about about someone just because you don't agree with them. :down:


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Well, he DID include a smiley face, so I think he was just kidding.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

He's a jerk.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

tiams said:


> You don't have to make disparaging remarks about about someone just because you don't agree with them. :down:


Wow, I guess there's no point engaging with you...


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## lodica1967 (Aug 5, 2003)

martinp13 said:


> Well, he DID include a smiley face, so I think he was just kidding.


This. And it's just a TV show. 

Debating is half the fun. (Even if you are wrong   )

That was also a joke....


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## lodica1967 (Aug 5, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Wow, you must be living in some kind of fairy-tale land!





tiams said:


> He's a jerk.


Please tell me you can see the difference in these two comments.

Rob was teasing you within the world we were debating and you were name calling. Not cool.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

photoshopgrl said:


> Okay so this wasn't as bad as I had feared. At least they explained why he was not a part of the curse and could come and go as Emma could. I should have known he'd be the 7 year old. I even remember other people making the comment but for whatever reason my brain was separating the two as either the boy who found her or as Pinocchio. I think Geppetto screwed them all just to save him too. Had he not sent a boy over to make sure Emma came around to save them in 28 years then Snow would have went, right? So she would have just grown up with the truth.


Is it any wonder that Pinocchio has a hard time being brave, truthful and selfless? His father exhibits the opposite of those qualities.

He lied to Snow and Charming in order to save Pinocchio, because he couldn't stand the thought of how hard it would be for him to lose his boy. The entire realm was at danger and he refused to save it, unless he could send the boy. A very selfish act.

Pinocchio is just like his dad.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Ereth said:


> Is it any wonder that Pinocchio has a hard time being brave, truthful and selfless? His father exhibits the opposite of those qualities.
> 
> He lied to Snow and Charming in order to save Pinocchio, because he couldn't stand the thought of how hard it would be for him to lose his boy. The entire realm was at danger and he refused to save it, unless he could send the boy. A very selfish act.
> 
> Pinocchio is just like his dad.


Yes! He even said something to him about it as Geppetto was telling him to get inside the tree.


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## mike_k (Sep 20, 2005)

tiams said:


> Storybrooke and Fairy Tale Land are the same place. Fairy Tale Land was cursed.
> 
> The only people who left Fairy Tale Land (Baelfire, Pinnochio, Emma) were sent to our world, not Storybrooke. Storybrooke didn't exist before the curse.
> 
> Fairy Tale Land is not destroyed, it is cursed. If it were destroyed, these characters would never be able to return once the curse is lifted.


This is what I'm thinking as well. In Storybrooke, we've seen EQ's vault where she keeps the hearts. It was in the graveyard instead of in her castle, but it was the same vault. We've seen a piece of the glass coffin. There is a lot of stuff in Gold's shop from FTL. And it seems clear that Bae, Pinnochio and Emma were not sent to Storybrooke - because it didn't exist yet. I don't think that there is anyone in Storybrooke that is not from FTL. And no one, except those three, can leave - assuming Bae ever makes it to Storybrooke.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

mike_k said:


> This is what I'm thinking as well. In Storybrooke, we've seen EQ's vault where she keeps the hearts. It was in the graveyard instead of in her castle, but it was the same vault. We've seen a piece of the glass coffin. There is a lot of stuff in Gold's shop from FTL. And it seems clear that Bae, Pinnochio and Emma were not sent to Storybrooke - because it didn't exist yet. I don't think that there is anyone in Storybrooke that is not from FTL. And no one, except those three, can leave - assuming Bae ever makes it to Storybrooke.


And the Troll bridge became the Toll bridge.


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## mike_k (Sep 20, 2005)

tiams said:


> And the Troll bridge became the Toll bridge.


And the old mines may or may not be the dwarf's mines.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

tiams said:


> The intro is not canon and not written by the writers. It also said only one knows the truth and that wasn't true either. In the real world, does time stand still?


Wait...what?

The intro is not written by the writers?

Who wrote it, then?


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

Once again we learned an important lesson for why we need to keep traditions alive. Kids, remember, when your parents are trying to teach you how to maintain magical bean farms and enchanted forests, it is because you might need them to save the world some day. Don't roll your eyes, and say, "This is boring. Can I go play video games instead?" If you do, then it's your fault when a father can't teleport to another dimension to find his lost son or a mother is separated from her newborn child because there aren't enough trees for everyone to weather an incoming curse. YOUR FAULT!



markz said:


> Just seems like 28 years is a long time for it to start affecting him from leaving her.


It wasn't time that caused August to start being affected, but rather Emma deciding to stay in Storybrooke. I'm thinking that Emma must have popped some sort of bubble keeping the curse contained within Storybrooke. For the people in Storybrooke this was helpful, as the strength of the curse started weakening. But for August, who was outside the bubble, this was harmful because he started being affected by it.



tiams said:


> Storybrooke IS Fairy Tale Land. When Fairy Tale land was cursed, it became Storybrooke. The characters weren't sent to our world.


I agree with the first sentence, but not the second. I think that much like the characters, Fairy Tale Land had an "identity change", and became Storybrooke. But it did come to "our" world. I don't think Emma, August, Henry, and whoever brought Henry to Regina (whether that was Regina, Rumpel, or an outsider) teleported between worlds when traveling between Storybrooke and the rest of our world. The connection was made when the curse was cast, and after that Storybrooke was physically connected.

Regina didn't say she wanted to turn FTL into a world without happy endings; she said she wanted to take everyone to a world without them. If she could have turned FTL into Storybrooke without sending it to our world, there would have been no need to have any connection to it.

Also, I don't think magic is not allowed in our world; it just doesn't exist for the most part. If magic weren't allowed, the curse could not have affected our world in any way, including making Storybrooke a part of it. The reason Rumpelstiltskin could have been freed from his curse by coming here was because coming here would have isolated him from his curse. It wasn't because magic in general wasn't allowed, but because his specific curse only had a hold in FTL.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Something I noticed on rewatch- when the source of all this trouble Blue Fairy made Pinocchio a real boy she told him that as long as he remained _"brave, truthful, and unselfish"_ he would remain a real boy. The next scene was August telephoning Mr. Gold and then collapsing in another woody spasm.
This phrase _"brave, truthful, and unselfish"_ was repeated again in the episode reminding Pinocchio what is required of him to remain real.
I just wondered if perhaps August is up to something not quite _"brave, truthful, and unselfish"_ and maybe that explained the return of the wood.
Just a thought.

I have never liked the actor that plays August- something about him physically that repels me. But I do have to say that in this episode I warmed to the _character_ a tiny bit- the scenes where he sees Geppetto were pretty effective.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> BTW, did they explain how he got the name August? Did he make it up as a boy? Did he make it up as an adult and has another name from when he was in foster care? I'm sure he wasn't all "hey my name is Pinocchio" when he was found. Also how is his eyes so freaking blue as an adult but look brown as a kid? Redhead with freckles as a child now dark hair and blue eyes. Ugh.


I wondered about his name as well. There has always been an association between the FTL name and the Storybrooke name.

Better names for August (don't know the character's last name) would have been:
1. Woodrow/Woody
2. Elmer
3. Leif
4. Forrest


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

getreal said:


> I wondered about his name as well. There has always been an association between the FTL name and the Storybrooke name.
> 
> Better names for August (don't know the character's last name) would have been:
> 1. Woodrow/Woody
> ...


August W Booth is what he calls himself, right? 
And like Emma since he isn't a victim of the curse, he should have the same name as he had in FTL. Except that he obviously changed it. I'm just curious how it became this.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

photoshopgrl said:


> August W Booth is what he calls himself, right?
> And like Emma since he isn't a victim of the curse, he should have the same name as he had in FTL. Except that he obviously changed it. I'm just curious how it became this.


If he'd stuck with Pinocchio, it woulda kinda ruined the surprise...


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> If he'd stuck with Pinocchio, it woulda kinda ruined the surprise...


Plus, who the hell is named Pinocchio?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

nyny523 said:


> Plus, who the hell is named Pinocchio?


It's actually the #1 baby name in Italy for boys made of wood...


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Cearbhaill said:


> Something I noticed on rewatch- when the source of all this trouble Blue Fairy made Pinocchio a real boy she told him that as long as he remained _"brave, truthful, and unselfish"_ he would remain a real boy. The next scene was August telephoning Mr. Gold and then collapsing in another woody spasm.
> This phrase _"brave, truthful, and unselfish"_ was repeated again in the episode reminding Pinocchio what is required of him to remain real.
> I just wondered if perhaps August is up to something not quite _"brave, truthful, and unselfish"_ and maybe that explained the return of the wood.
> Just a thought.


I think it's pretty clear that his motives have been the opposite of "brave, truthful, and unselfish" since he first appeared in Storybrooke. He stole the book and inserted the story without telling anyone. He's conspiring with someone mysterious on the phone. He lied to Gold and tried to convince Gold that he was Baelfire. He used Henry as cover while he tried to steal something from Gold. This episode was the first time since he's been on the show that he appeared to do something truthful, by telling Emma the truth, but it still seems selfish, because it appears the only reason he's telling her the truth is because he's turning to wood.

As for the buxom blue fairy, I wish her counterpart in the real world weren't the Mother Superior of the convent, so we could see some of that cleavage on a full-sized person.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> If he'd stuck with Pinocchio, it woulda kinda ruined the surprise...


Woody would have given it away too.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

markz said:


> Woody would have given it away too.


As would pretty much anything that's been suggested.

Clearly, they didn't give him a resonant name for that purpose. And his existence in the "mundane" world would give them an excuse to give him a mundane name.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

markz said:


> Woody would have given it away too.


But if his name was August Woodman, that would've been more subtle.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

getreal said:


> But if his name was August Woodman, that would've been more subtle.


ROFL, that's a better porn name.


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

He says he is sick, and he also said in this episode that she Emma came to Storybrook, time started to progress, and THAT was when he first realized that he was now dying. Unfortunately, he was partying on the other side of the world at the time.

His actions have been nothing but selfish, as were Geppetto's when he insisted on saving Pinocchio instead of Charming and pregnant Snow. The Pinocchio CHOSE to leave the orphanage instead of staying and taking care of Emma, as he had promised to--selfish AND dishonest. I don't know about being brave, but he has shown a LOT of non-truthfullness, and selfishness.

According to the blue fairy, who gets her prophecies from where exactly? Emma is destined to break the curse, in her 28th year (I think that's right). Whatever she is doing will enable her to accomplish that goal.

Here is the long-term issue as far as I'm concerned: When the curse is lifted, what happens? Do they all return to FTL, or will lifting the curse be just a stepping stone to returning to where they came from? Master reset, or not? What if some of them want to stay? If Rumple hasn't found his son yet, will he prohibit Emma from succeeding until he finds Bae?

If the "caves" under the city are the remains of the mines of the dwarfs, then that would suggest that FTL did move, or translate to our world. Sometimes a cave is just a cave.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

I have a question about a character and guest star for an upcoming episode/episodes. I'm going to spoilerize, but am hoping someone will know:



Spoiler



When will Sebastian Stan be returning as Jefferson? I've read a few places that he is supposed to be returning for two more episodes season 1 - there are only 2 eps left, right? So he should be in both? Can anyone confirm?



My cable must have gone out on Sunday as I was out of town and nothing recorded, so I missed this episode. I'm not terribly heartbroken about it.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Zevida said:


> I have a question about a character and guest star for an upcoming episode/episodes. I'm going to spoilerize, but am hoping someone will know:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



I don't know for sure about both but he's definitely supposed to be in the next one. Synopsis doesn't mention his character but he's listed in the credits:

Once Upon a Time "An Apple Red as Blood" 121 (ABC, Sun May 6 8 pm). Henry begs Emma to stay in Storybrooke, but Regina is already hatching a plan to get rid of her for good. Meanwhile, in the fairy-tale world, Snow White calls on her allies to attack the Evil Queen and save Prince Charming. Guest Cast: Meghan Ory (Ruby/Red Riding Hood); Eion Bailey (August); Alan Dale (Decker/King George); *Sebastian Stan (Jefferson David)*; Paul Grove (Doc); Lee Arenberg (Leroy/Grumpy); Beverley Elliott (Granny); Michael Coleman (Happy); Gabe Khouth (Mr. Clark/Sneezy); Keegan Connor Tracy (Mother Superior/Blue Fairy).


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

LooseWiring said:


> Okay, was it just my own perverse nature or was the Blue Fairy letting it ALL hang out last night?


The FGFDs were at full inflation! 



Spoiler



(Fairy Godmother Flotation Devices)


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> As for the buxom blue fairy, I wish her counterpart in the real world weren't the Mother Superior of the convent, so we could see some of that cleavage on a full-sized person.


I'm thinking August might have gotten a peek under her habit.

It's obvious that _someone_ gave him wood.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

I loved her in Jake 2.0. Im glad she's back in a completely different kind of role for her. Usually she plays the nerdy girl.


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## jespenshade (Jul 26, 2009)

photoshopgrl said:


> August W Booth is what he calls himself, right?
> And like Emma since he isn't a victim of the curse, he should have the same name as he had in FTL. Except that he obviously changed it. I'm just curious how it became this.


August W Booth...AWB...A Wooden Boy?


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

jespenshade said:


> August W Booth...AWB...A Wooden Boy?


:up:
That would be quite clever!


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