# Grumpy old Tivo owners



## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

The biggest worry I have about the new Virgin Tivo is that this place will soon be overrun by a load of new Tivo owners asking about how to use the fancy features of their new Premiere boxes and I may have to retire hurt from this forum.

Can we propose a grumpy old UK series 1 Tivo forum for those of us stuck with series 1 outside cable areas?


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## djb2002 (May 1, 2006)

I agree - We should have a TiVo Thomson section, and TiVo Virgin section 

Thanks


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

I don't think there'll be any need for a Forum on here as all support will be done via VM, who now have some forums of their own.

Don't forget that you won't _own_ these new boxes. They'll be 'rented' from VM like everything else


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## bigwold (Jun 4, 2003)

If it's for 'grumpies' or 'old' put me down for it.


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## katman (Jun 4, 2002)

djb2002 said:


> I agree - We should have a TiVo Thomson section, and TiVo Virgin section
> 
> Thanks


Hmmm..... if a VirginMedia customer had in the past owned a Series 1 Tivo would they still qualify as a Tivo Virgin LOL


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

We may still have some people here who got their TiVo from VirginMedia - in a previous tie-up when they were NTL.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

ozsat said:


> We may still have some people here who got their TiVo from VirginMedia - in a previous tie-up when they were NTL.


Really? Box details please; if you can remember. I was a Telewest customer until 2007!


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## PhilG (Jan 15, 2002)

djb2002 said:


> I agree - We should have a TiVo Thomson section, and TiVo Virgin section
> 
> Thanks


We don't need a new forum for US, we just need to rename this one

It's the newbies (if there are any) who need a new forum


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

cwaring said:


> Really? Box details please; if you can remember. I was a Telewest customer until 2007!


It was the series 1 box.

NTL were the supplier of the box for a while - no new box - no support.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/video-recorder-maker-tivo-in-talks-with-ntl-689892.html


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

That article said "...in talks..." but I don't think it eveer actually happened, did it?


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## Fred Smith (Oct 5, 2002)

AMc said:


> Can we propose a grumpy old UK series 1 Tivo forum for those of us stuck with series 1 outside cable areas?


What about those of us stuck with a series 1 *inside* cable areas.


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## melmatic (Nov 24, 2009)

cwaring said:


> That article said "...in talks..." but I don't think it eveer actually happened, did it?


pressoffice.virginmedia.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=205406&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=934716

25/06/02

NTL and TiVo sign deal to enhance digital cable TV

 NTL customers to benefit from digital video recorders and services
 Features include high quality digital recordings without a video tape plus live TV pause and record whole series functions
 Deal delivers incremental growth opportunities for TiVo and builds on NTL's digital TV offer

NTL and TiVo today announced a deal which will market TiVo's stand-alone digital video recorders to NTL customers throughout the UK. The deal will bring NTL customers all the benefits of the TiVo DVR service alongside NTL's high quality cable TV service.

TiVo DVRs, which are manufactured by Thomson, will enable NTL customers to digitally record and store programmes for playback at any time, without the hassles of videotape or VCR timers.

Available to NTL customers from Monday 1 July, via a dedicated sales support line, the TiVo service will allow cable viewers to pause live TV and create their own instant replays  a particularly useful tool when watching major sporting events such as Wimbledon and the Commonwealth Games.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

melmatic said:


> http://pressoffice.virginmedia.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=205406&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=934716
> 
> 25/06/02
> 
> NTL and TiVo sign deal to enhance digital cable TV


Well okay then. Like I said, I was with TW 

Was it popular?


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

I remember when all this was fields...


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## Major dude (Oct 28, 2002)

cwaring said:


> I don't think there'll be any need for a Forum on here as all support will be done via VM, who now have some forums of their own.
> 
> Don't forget that you won't _own_ these new boxes. They'll be 'rented' from VM like everything else


Don't like it - it's all red and grey and corporate and non TiVo like.

I want to stay right here as its somewhere special for us UK 
TiVo freaks.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

I notice that TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs have their own separate forum section over on the US side of the forum.

I don't see why things can't be the same here with this forum re-named as Tivo UK Series 1 Thomson DVRs and a new forum section entitled Tivo UK Series 3 Virgin DVRs also being added. UK General Chit Chat could continue to serve everybody with a UK related non Tivo matter to discuss.

I also think its total nonsense to suggest that Virgin Tivo customers won't need their own section of Tivocommunity any more than that it would be sensible to suggest that people who got their Tivos from DirecTv or Seven in Australia should only be entitled to discuss things in the web help forums run by those companies. I notice that there is now already a Tivo NZ/Australia forum section on Tivocommunity, although if I lived out there and owned a Tivo I would be pressing for each country to have its own separate forum section.

We all surely know that Virgin will clearly not be prepared to accept or allow direct hostile criticism of software deficiencies or missing features on their own shiny new machines and will only allow discussion of things that are useful to the maintenance of a positive PR image by Virgin.

Also many existing Tivo owners living in Virgin areas will be getting new Virgin Tivos so that in reality there is going to be a large amount of crossover between the old and new forum sections in terms of the regulars....

As I don't live in a Virgin Cable area I'm still hoping that Virgin will be able to launch some form of IPTV Tivo based version of their service to the rest of the UK.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> I also think its total nonsense to suggest that Virgin Tivo customers won't need their own section of Tivocommunity any more than that it would be sensible to suggest that people who got their Tivos from DirecTv or Seven in Australia should only be entitled to discuss things in the web help forums run by those companies.


Given that most of the talk on here is based around hacking the unit, something that you will not be able to do with your VM Tivo without breaking the T&C of your contract, what would be the point? 


Pete77 said:


> We all surely *know* that Virgin will clearly not be prepared to accept or allow direct hostile criticism of software deficiencies or missing features on their own shiny new machines and will only allow discussion of things that are useful to the maintenance of a positive PR image by Virgin.


By "know" you mean "assume" of course


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Given that most of the talk on here is based around hacking the unit, something that you will not be able to do with your VM Tivo without breaking the T&C of your contract, what would be the point?


What about discussions involving anomalies and oddities in Guide Data (broken SPs, orphaned episodes etc), weirdnesses in what Wishlists do and don't match and of course the basis on which programs end up being recorded by Suggestions just for some starters.

I don't think any of those will be against the Terms and Conditions.

Anyhow people still seem to hack their TomTom units to add new features and add on programs regardless of what the Terms and Conditions may say. Also usually the Terms and Conditions only say that they won't support you and you will void your warranty by hacking the unit. But Its usually only actually illegal to try and deprive your supplier of money by trying to obtain the underlying service from them without paying.


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## steveroe (Oct 29, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Anyhow people still seem to hack their TomTom units to add new features and add on programs regardless of what the Terms and Conditions may say. Also usually the Terms and Conditions only say that they won't support you and you will void your warranty by hacking the unit. But Its usually only actually illegal to try and deprive your supplier of money by trying to obtain the underlying service from them without paying.


This is a very good analogy. It surely follows that Virgin won't mind people hacking the equipment that they don't own then - presumably.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> What about discussions involving anomalies and oddities in Guide Data (broken SPs, orphaned episodes etc), weirdnesses in what Wishlists do and don't match and of course the basis on which programs end up being recorded by Suggestions just for some starters.
> 
> I don't think any of those will be against the Terms and Conditions.


True, but I also think that VM won't have a problem with discussing those on it's official forums.



> Also usually the Terms and Conditions only say that they won't support you and you will void your warranty by hacking the unit. But Its usually only actually illegal to try and deprive your supplier of money by trying to obtain the underlying service from them without paying.


Yes, because in most cases _you own_ your equipment. In this case, the box will be _rented_ of VM as part of your package. There's the difference.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Yes, because in most cases _you own_ your equipment. In this case, the box will be _rented_ of VM as part of your package. There's the difference.


People who rent their homes long term on an unfurnished basis often still seem to end up repainting them or replacing the kitchen.

Virgin aren't going to care about any software hacking since any unit that goes back to them is bound to go through a full factory reset and general refurb. They might draw the line at you cutting holes in the back of the unit to add new interfaces but if you keep the unit a few years its bound to be scrapped anyway rather then recycled to a new customer so again they won't really care.

The main reason why Virgin don't let you own the equipment is (a) so that free equipment maintenance can also be a feature of the service and (b) as a disincentive to desubscribing from them completely as a customer. However their primary motivation is certainly not to prevent you from making minor customer improvements to your equipment.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Virgin aren't going to care about any software hacking since any unit that goes back to them is bound to go through a full factory reset and general refurb. .


Can you imagine how much it would cost to send an engineer to replace a 'faulty' box that some pillock has inexpertly hacked so it won't boot and so can't be reset over the network?

As the one of the primary costs to service providers is support I would expect Virgin to take a very dim view of hacking THEIR machines. I'm sure people will have a go but to expect it to be sanctioned or unofficially accepted is naive.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

AMc said:


> Can you imagine how much it would cost to send an engineer to replace a 'faulty' box that some pillock has inexpertly hacked so it won't boot and so can't be reset over the network?
> 
> As the one of the primary costs to service providers is support I would expect Virgin to take a very dim view of hacking THEIR machines. I'm sure people will have a go but to expect it to be sanctioned or unofficially accepted is naive.


If Virgin have such a nanny state attitude towards customers then it sounds like yet another reason for me to stick with the Tivo S1 for many more years to come. Apart that is from me not living in a Virgin cabled area and there being seemingly a very small prospect that I ever will do.

I find your patronising and paternalistic attitude towards other "pillocks" (apart that is from yourself and your recent tedious DailyMail saga as a result of not having properly backed up the various hacks on your Tivo box as a responsible end user would have done) who hack their boxes whilst being quite happy to hack your own Tivo box more than a little hypocritical. So long as someone is willing to pay the service call out fee or box swapout fee if they screw their box up for such a reason then that seems fair enough.

People wouldn't need to hack their boxes if the manufacturers provided all the features that end users actually want. TomTom is a particularly bad case in point denying customers simple features such as average journey speed, altimeter or distance to the next waypoint on their route (rather than just the final destinaton) quite needlessly.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> People who rent their homes long term on an unfurnished basis often still seem to end up repainting them or replacing the kitchen.


Yes, and once again that's _completely different _ 



Pete77 said:


> I find your patronising and paternalistic attitude .....


Just as I find _your_ attitude - "I can do whatever I want with whatever I want whether I own it or not and regardless of any T&C I agreed to be bound by when I took the service" - similarly baffling


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Just as I find _your_ attitude - "I can do whatever I want with whatever I want whether I own it or not and regardless of any T&C I agreed to be bound by when I took the service" - similarly baffling


A lot of Terms & Conditions about not opening the manufacturer'ss box and it invalidating the warranty are purely to do with them keeping warranty costs down.

At the end of the day if I can't own my Virgin Tivo box and am only a miserable renter restricted by unnecessarily limited terms and conditions than that is one reason I don't like the company compared even to Sky. Of course you as a natural renter (as in you did not even invest in a Tivo Lifetime sub but thought that paying month after month made more sense) who has also never owned your own home probably see nothing wrong with that.

Even Sky lets you own your equipment after a year and you don't have to pay any more to them if you don't want to view only non subscription channels. Same thing with Tivo's Lifetime sub but clearly not with Virgin's Pay Once and Pay Forever Tivo arrangements.


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## steveroe (Oct 29, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> People who rent their homes long term on an unfurnished basis often still seem to end up repainting them or replacing the kitchen.


That would depend on the terms and conditions of the rental contract. If the contract permitted it then it would hopefully also cover the liability for repair and maintenance on such changes, should the renter or owner be responsible for those changes?

Pete - the analogy does not hold up. If, when they release their Tivo, they follow their current practice then you won't own the Virgin Tivo you will rent it and as such the terms and conditions of the rental will prohibit you from altering it in any way.

I know this is a moot point as you don't live in a Virgin cabled area, but if you did and you don't agree to the Terms and Conditions of the contract then you shouldn't enter into it.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> I find your patronising and paternalistic attitude towards other "pillocks" (apart that is from yourself and your recent tedious DailyMail saga as a result of not having properly backed up the various hacks on your Tivo box as a responsible end user would have done) who hack their boxes whilst being quite happy to hack your own Tivo box more than a little hypocritical.


Wow you're really on form today aren't you? The important difference is I OWN my Tivo. It belongs to me. If I RENTED my Tivo it would be unreasonable to expect to be able to open the lid and mess around inside. I'm not sure how you fail to appreciate this simple difference.

As my Tivo was rebooting as a result of a corruption in /var restoring from my recent backup would have been pretty stupid wouldn't it? As it was I took the opportunity to clean install all my hacks including upgrading Dailymail from 0.3 to 1. You weren't obliged to help with my problems and you didn't bring anything to the process either - if you find my posts dull feel free to press the ignore button.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Of course you as a natural renter (as in you did not even invest in a Tivo Lifetime sub but thought that paying month after month made more sense) ... .


Actually, that was a more of a 'lack of money' problem than anything else.



> Even Sky lets you own your equipment after a year and you don't have to pay any more to them if you don't want to view only non subscription channels.


That's because they build the cost into your subscription; and why they tie you to a minimum 12-months, so they make that money back. It's not _really_ "free" you know 



> Same thing with Tivo's Lifetime sub but clearly not with Virgin's Pay Once and Pay Forever Tivo arrangements.


That's because _IT'S RENTED_


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

steveroe said:


> Pete - the analogy does not hold up. If, when they release their Tivo, they follow their current practice then you won't own the Virgin Tivo you will rent it and as such the terms and conditions of the rental will prohibit you from altering it in any way.


My point is I don't like renting things because it always costs much more in the long run.

Hence I find it totally unsatisfactory that Tivo are only re-launching in the UK with an organisation that only rents its equipment.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

AMc said:


> Wow you're really on form today aren't you? The important difference is I OWN my Tivo. It belongs to me. If I RENTED my Tivo it would be unreasonable to expect to be able to open the lid and mess around inside. I'm not sure how you fail to appreciate this simple difference.


But there should be an option to buy your Virgin Tivo box too. That is my point and the be all and end all of it. TomTom will try to rope you in for map subscriptions and traffic subscriptions and all sorts but if you ignore them and just stick with the product you own it will still navigate you from A to B. If TomTom only rented their units I wouldn't get one.



> As my Tivo was rebooting as a result of a corruption in /var restoring from my recent backup would have been pretty stupid wouldn't it?


I would have assumed that as an IT professional that you maintained a series of backups of your hacks at various points in time, thus allowing you to revert to a hack backup set that you knew was not corrupted. Especially when you so readily condemn other "pillocks" who cannot be trusted to use their equipment competently.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> That's because they build the cost into your subscription; and why they tie you to a minimum 12-months, so they make that money back. It's not _really_ "free" you know


No if you desubscribe after only paying £75 for a Sky Pay Once Watch Forever box and dish then Sky definitely lose money on that install. Its a gamble on their part. They win with the customers who continue to subscribe.



> That's because _IT'S RENTED_


And I don't like renting things. Why don't Virgin have an option to buy your own equipment?


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> I would have assumed that as an IT professional that you maintained a series of backups of your hacks at various points in time, thus allowing you to revert to a hack backup set that you knew was not corrupted.


And as an IT professional I know when restoring an old backup of software, not settings or data is a false economy.

If my Windows computer went south I wouldn't restore from a backup C:\ Windows, I'd reinstall Windows and the software I need now not everything I've ever installed since day 1. 
As I've already said I was UPGRADING dailymail hence the questions I could have reinstalled my old version without assistance .



Pete77 said:


> Especially when you so readily condemn other "pillocks" who cannot be trusted to use their equipment competently.


 I'm not condemning anyone, pillock or otherwise modifying their own equipment at their own risk. When you rent something it's not yours to modify and if you break something you've rented then to expect someone else to come and clean it up is unreasonable.



Pete77 said:


> And I don't like renting things. Why don't Virgin have an option to buy your own equipment?


We get that you're not a renter Pete. Why don't Virgin have an option to buy your own equipment? because they want to maintain end to end control of the service. It's a business model that they've chosen and it's designed to keep subscribers on their books for as long as possible.

Personally I find it unreasonable that Sky will charge you for an installation, then charge you the same amount of money in year 2 as year 1 but if your box dies in year 2 you have to pay them to replace it. 
Virgin charge to install then the same money through the contract and fix or replace your box whenever it goes wrong - providing you haven't wilfully damaged it by for example making unauthorised modifications to the hardware.

The only problem I have with the Virgin/Tivo partnership is at the moment I can't rent one and I'm not looking forward to reading on here all about how shiny their boxes are when they turn up later this year.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2010/03/08/virgin_media_wins_film_4_hd/



> *Virgin Media wins Film 4 HD exclusive*
> Bad news for Freeview HD
> 
> By Tony Smith
> ...


They're really beginning to get on my nerves now


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

AMc said:


> They're really beginning to get on my nerves now


This is obviously retaliation for the C4 HD Sky exclusive deal.

Surely the Competition Commission needs to now investigate why FTA channels from terrestrial tv broadcasters are only being made available to people who sign up for pay tv channel equipment.

The fact that Virgin is not even available to 50% of UK homes makes this all the more ridiculous.


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## DX30 (May 22, 2005)

> But the news is a blow to the fledgling subscription-free service, Freeview HD, which is currently only broadcasting two channels: BBC HD and ITV 1 HD.


If anything the blow was to C4. ISTR that C4 applied for a 2nd Freeview HD slot to show Film4 in HD but were turned down.

See

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/digitaltv/a147408/channel-4-proposes-film4-hd-for-freeview.html


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> This is obviously retaliation for the C4 HD Sky exclusive deal.


Wrong again Pete. C4 HD is available on Virgin


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

RichardJH said:


> Wrong again Pete. C4 HD is available on Virgin


Thanks for correcting me there Richard.

The underlying problem on satellite is that there is not enough space left on Astra 2D to support the launch of high bandwidth new FTA HD channels (there isn't even enough bandwidth left for Fiver or Five USA to be broadcast FTA at all on 2D or also Five and ITV1 in some UK regions). On satellite the only solution is therefore to encrypt them and broadcast them FTV.

Similarly on Freeview there won't be enough space for all the channels to broadcast in HD whilst most Freeview customers with SD televisions do not own boxes that can downscale HD to an SD compatible form. Hence broadcasting in HD only instead of SD is not an acceptable option for the time being. The fact that the government has declared a so called "digital dividend" and is selling off much of the vacated analogue television bandwidth to mobile data providers etc hardly helps.

As with the move to widescreen so called progress brings more chaos and disfunctionality, although on a much larger and more probematic scale than the 4:3 to 16:9 broadcasting format switch-over (where old equipment could at least still show the programs albeit with black bars at the top and bottom).

I assume Virgin aims to capitalise on all this since they presumably have capacity to carry a near unlimited number of switched HD channels to their customers.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> My point is I don't like renting things because it always costs much more in the long run.


But if it's a choice between rent it or not have it? 



Pete77 said:


> Why don't Virgin have an option to buy your own equipment?


You mean buy any old cable-enabled thing and use that, or buy eveything of VM?

If the former, then VM won't be able to offer technical support the item and also they cannot guaratee that using it won't adversely affect their system or your neighbours services.

If the latter, then fine, but what do you do if you decide to ditch cable? Okay. I suppose you could sell it on. It's an idea I suppose 



AMc said:


> We get that you're not a renter Pete. Why don't Virgin have an option to buy your own equipment? because they want to maintain end to end control of the service.


Yes. That's what meant


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

cwaring said:


> You mean buy any old cable-enabled thing and use that...?


AIUI that's pretty much what the cableCARD standard in the US mandates. Having to use the providers equipment was seen to be a restriction of trade and was legislated against.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CableCARD

Now to prime another rant , it would require a serious regulator to make both BSkyB and Virgin adopt an encryption scheme that would allow the end user to choose their hardware and allow the hardware manufacturers to innovate beyond the service providers canned offerings.

Imagine if you were able to buy a device that could record from any service provider using a common interface...oh hang on that sounds familiar


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## katman (Jun 4, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Thanks for correcting me there Richard.
> 
> The underlying problem on satellite is that there is not enough space left on Astra 2D to support the launch of high bandwidth new FTA HD channels (there isn't even enough bandwidth left for Fiver or Five USA to be broadcast FTA at all on 2D or also Five and ITV1 in some UK regions). On satellite the only solution is therefore to encrypt them and broadcast them FTV.


In which case they should drop the +1 channels to free up capacity then.

I obviously grabbed the wrong end of the stick when we were told that Digital TV would give us better quality and a greater choice of what to watch.

The broadcasters have opted for minimum bitrates to cram as many channels of crap into a given bandwidth and instead of giving us a greater choice of PROGRAMMES to watch, they have given us a greater choice of CHANNELS on which to watch the SAME programmes 

It annoys the hell out of me that if you miss a decent program it will never be repeated but something not worth watching the first time around will be on Ch4 and will also be on Ch4+1, E4, E4+1, More 4 and More4+1.

Do ITV really need 1, 2, 2+1, 3, 3+1, 4, 4+1 ?? Other than the local evening news I cant remember the last time I watched ITV !!!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

katman said:


> In which case they should drop the +1 channels to free up capacity then.
> 
> It annoys the hell out of me that if you miss a decent program it will never be repeated but something not worth watching the first time around will be on Ch4 and will also be on Ch4+1, E4, E4+1, More 4 and More4+1.
> 
> Do ITV really need 1, 2, 2+1, 3, 3+1, 4, 4+1 ?? Other than the local evening news I cant remember the last time I watched ITV !!!


I totally agree with you. The only reason the +1 channels have been invented is to try and let ITV, C4 and Five grab slightly more market share through the pure percentage of the low numbered channels in the EPG that they now occupy.

There is no case at all for +1 channels when most things are now available to watch again for seven days online.

Unfortunately Ofcom is not a consumer minded regulator and simply makes regulations that permit the preservation of the existing established FTA and Pay tv channel monopolies.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Actually, given that my current Tivo can only record one channel at a time, I actually appreciate the +1s


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Actually, given that my current Tivo can only record one channel at a time, I actually appreciate the +1s


Yes its true that given the sad lack of multiple tuner functionality on our S1 machines they do indeed serve that purpose but in a world of C4HD and BBC Iplayer there really shouldn't be a need for them.

Whilst they are handy for our Tivos we have to face it that as PVRs they are rapidly heading for the Science Museum.

A Virgin Tivo should simply be able to get the required program from the relevant 7 day archive online download sources.


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## bigwold (Jun 4, 2003)

cwaring said:


> Actually, given that my current Tivo can only record one channel at a time, I actually appreciate the +1s


What you need is another TiVo (or two or three or more), although the +1 channels do come in useful sometimes


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Pete77 said:


> I assume Virgin aims to capitalise on all this since they presumably have capacity to carry a near unlimited number of switched HD channels to their customers.


Yup - and don't forget Virgin Cable has a nice two way connection giving it effectively unlimited on demand content ( including youtube etc ) - unmatchable by satellite and freeview's one-way link.


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## CarlWalters (Oct 17, 2001)

cwaring said:


> Actually, given that my current Tivo can only record one channel at a time, I actually appreciate the +1s


Yes - very useful for that I agree.


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## deshepherd (Nov 30, 2000)

bigwold said:


> What you need is another TiVo (or two or three or more), although the +1 channels do come in useful sometimes


Agreed ... but I can't think of any justification for Living+2 ... actually I can't think of any justifcation for Living+1 or Living


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Which is nowhere even in the vicinity of the point


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