# R.I.P. HME



## wmcbrine

Well, it looks like this is it for HME going forward. Not that they didn't give up on it long ago, but as of the latest TiVo software release, 20.7.2, there seems to be no way to even run an HME app.

I'll keep my Reversi server running for at least the next year (it's pre-paid), for the benefit of anyone with an older model TiVo that doesn't get "upgraded" to HME-less software. After that, I'll see what the demand is. I won't be able to play it anymore myself, except in the simulator. (Actually, my Minis haven't been updated yet. But I assume the same will happen there.)

HME for Python will receive no further updates. (I'd already pretty much given up on HME/VLC, for other reasons.)


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## wmcbrine

Stupidly, "Add an App" still appears on the Roamio under 20.7.2, but it doesn't seem to work (gives an error message). My existing Reversi entry disappeared from the Roamio when I rebooted it to 20.7.2.


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## Dan203

Now you just have to port your games over to HTML5 and put them on the Opera store.


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## davidblackledge

Yep. I guess it's a relief in a way, but frustrating in others.

I'll continue to very slowly pursue Opera TV (I have a preliminary working port of my Archive On Demand video app)... but I may end up spending my free time playing TF2 until I retire and have some more time to invest.


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## Allanon

Dan203 said:


> Now you just have to port your games over to HTML5 and put them on the Opera store.


Too bad the Tivo from my cable company doesn't allow the Opera Store. We had it for 2 weeks but then it was blocked.


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## windracer

Pouring a little out here for HME ...  

Good times ...


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## davidblackledge

wmcbrine said:


> Stupidly, "Add an App" still appears on the Roamio under 20.7.2, but it doesn't seem to work (gives an error message). My existing Reversi entry disappeared from the Roamio when I rebooted it to 20.7.2.


Whoops... we're not getting off that easy.

While "other" and uncategorized entries disappeared, "music" and "photos" entries still show up in the new gigantic apps list if you wait for them to load (they did on my post-update Roamio+)

So just change your Reversi TiVoConnect file to give your game such a category and it'll show up again.
E.g. right between the "details" and "links" tags add:
<Genres>
<Genre>photos</Genre>
<Genre>other</Genre>
</Genres>

(throwing in "other" genre in case they change it back)
Soon, or at least this weekend, I'll move at least my main apps on enterwebz.tv there.

I don't know if that will help the error message for "add an app," but at least existing users should be OK.


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## moyekj

As I posted in streambaby thread it is still possible to launch HME apps via RPC. So HME apps still run, TiVo just broke launching them.

Also, for series 4 units HME still works with SDUI, so switching to SDUI temporarily is possible for launching HME apps.

But yeah, it's becoming so inconvenient to launch HME apps now it's not worth the trouble.


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## bradleys

moyekj said:


> As I posted in streambaby thread it is still possible to launch HME apps via RPC. So HME apps still run, TiVo just broke launching them.
> 
> Also, for series 4 units HME still works with SDUI, so switching to SDUI temporarily is possible for launching HME apps.
> 
> But yeah, it's becoming so inconvenient to launch HME apps now it's not worth the trouble.


It looks like to started to work agai today.


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## davidblackledge

bradleys said:


> View attachment 30192
> 
> 
> It looks like to started to work agai today.


Oooh nice screenshot ;]

Buuuuut... you'll notice it's only "photos" and "music" genre listings (and the "edit" app which I listed under all genres). The "video" and "other" genre listings are getting left out. I'll recategorize WordSmythe, Archive On Demand, etc. as "photos" this weekend so they'll show up again, too.


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## Lurker1

davidblackledge said:


> Whoops... we're not getting off that easy.
> 
> While "other" and uncategorized entries disappeared, "music" and "photos" entries still show up in the new gigantic apps list if you wait for them to load (they did on my post-update Roamio+)
> 
> So just change your Reversi TiVoConnect file to give your game such a category and it'll show up again.
> E.g. right between the "details" and "links" tags add:
> <Genres>
> <Genre>photos</Genre>
> <Genre>other</Genre>
> </Genres>
> 
> (throwing in "other" genre in case they change it back)
> Soon, or at least this weekend, I'll move at least my main apps on enterwebz.tv there.
> 
> I don't know if that will help the error message for "add an app," but at least existing users should be OK.


Does this information help in any way to get local HME apps back on the apps list? I can't find anything like a TiVoConnect file.


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## davidblackledge

Lurker1 said:


> Does this information help in any way to get local HME apps back on the apps list? I can't find anything like a TiVoConnect file.


Unfortunately, no, Genres are only a feature of Add-an-app servers, not local-network announced apps.

In fact, depending on how TiVo implemented it, it's even possible that is WHY they're not showing up - perhaps local apps are assumed as "other" genre by default on the TiVo, and the TiVo apps list is restricting listings to "music" and "photos" only. But don't take my word for it, I haven't looked at local apps in a while and I'm just throwing out a theory.


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## eohrnberger

wmcbrine said:


> Well, it looks like this is it for HME going forward. Not that they didn't give up on it long ago, but as of the latest TiVo software release, 20.7.2, there seems to be no way to even run an HME app.
> 
> I'll keep my Reversi server running for at least the next year (it's pre-paid), for the benefit of anyone with an older model TiVo that doesn't get "upgraded" to HME-less software. After that, I'll see what the demand is. I won't be able to play it anymore myself, except in the simulator. (Actually, my Minis haven't been updated yet. But I assume the same will happen there.)
> 
> HME for Python will receive no further updates. (I'd already pretty much given up on HME/VLC, for other reasons.)


Hmm. With HME killed with this update, I guess that would also kill pyTiVio too, wouldn't it?

Reason I'm asking is that I've been a Galleon user for years (decades?) and that won't work. Does pyTiVo use another type of interface? Does it have similar capabilities to Galleon?


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## wmcbrine

eohrnberger said:


> Hmm. With HME killed with this update, I guess that would also kill pyTiVio too, wouldn't it?


No, pyTivo is HMO rather than HME.


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## windracer

Same with Galleon (formerly known as JavaHMO) ... that was HMO. Can't believe someone is still running that! Even _I_ gave up on it a long time ago.


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## eohrnberger

windracer said:


> Same with Galleon (formerly known as JavaHMO) ... that was HMO. Can't believe someone is still running that! Even _I_ gave up on it a long time ago.


Hey. It did what I wanted / needed, and it worked pretty well.

If Galleon and pyTiVo are both using the HMO interface, and the update killed Galleon, then the same update would have killed pyTiVo then.

If Galleon is using HME, and pyTiVo is using HMO, and only HME is been killed with the update, then it's worth trying pyTiVo to re-gain the lost capabilities, isn't it?


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## windracer

I'm pretty sure Galleon wasn't using HME (I worked on it for a while when jtkohl revived it after Leon abandoned it) but it could be not working for other reasons.


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## HerronScott

windracer said:


> I'm pretty sure Galleon wasn't using HME (I worked on it for a while when jtkohl revived it after Leon abandoned it) but it could be not working for other reasons.


Looks like John Kohl updated the Sourceforge page with the following:

"Galleon is a home media server using TiVo's discontinued HME protocol. It only works on TiVo versions earlier than 20.7.2."

Scott


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## HerronScott

eohrnberger said:


> If Galleon is using HME, and pyTiVo is using HMO, and only HME is been killed with the update, then it's worth trying pyTiVo to re-gain the lost capabilities, isn't it?


pyTivo isn't broken so yes you should give it a try. 

Scott


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## windracer

HerronScott said:


> Looks like John Kohl updated the Sourceforge page with the following:
> 
> "Galleon is a home media server using TiVo's discontinued HME protocol. It only works on TiVo versions earlier than 20.7.2."


Huh, I stand corrected. It's been a long time, my last contribution to Galleon was March 2013 to fix the expired cookie problem. I guess JavaHMO was the HMO version and Galleon was the HME version. Either way, RIP.


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## eohrnberger

Well now.

Put up pyTiVo, and the shares are exactly where the shared were for Galleon. Cool.

Can download from the TiVo to local, and on the way, puts it into straight MPG format. Nice.

Still may run Galleon, as it does automatically pull pattern patching recordings to the Linux machine. That's useful.

Now, I just gotta write up an openrc init script for pyTiVo - well, that'll be with tomorrow morning's coffee I guess.

Good. I can dump Plex, it's just way too much of a heavy weight.


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## davidblackledge

windracer said:


> Huh, I stand corrected. It's been a long time, my last contribution to Galleon was March 2013 to fix the expired cookie problem. I guess JavaHMO was the HMO version and Galleon was the HME version. Either way, RIP.


Really it uses both. It served files audio and image files via HMO the same way pyTiVo does, and it provided most other stuff like Weather with HME. The confusing items were like the Jukebox which was an HME audio player that I think used the HMO configuration to find the music files.


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## Lurker1

davidblackledge said:


> Really it uses both. It served files audio and image files via HMO the same way pyTiVo does, and it provided most other stuff like Weather with HME. The confusing items were like the Jukebox which was an HME audio player that I think used the HMO configuration to find the music files.


Galleon also has Music and Photos apps that work better and are more configurable than the TiVo built-in apps. I use(d) those every day for many years.


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## Lurker1

Are we jumping the gun to assume HME is dead and not just temporarily broken? The built-in music app has stopped working too, and no one is suggesting that is dead.


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## davidblackledge

Lurker1 said:


> Are we jumping the gun to assume HME is dead and not just temporarily broken? The built-in music app has stopped working too, and no one is suggesting that is dead.


Let's just call it "not actively supported."
They break a little more of it with every update.
* Bolt was released with add-an-app broken. They eventually "fixed" that by removing the button. 
* They broke add-an-app on everything for a few months, although they did fix it again.
* They broke MP4 playback on all models and MP3 playback on some.
* Now this.

So if I understand the reports correctly, the only HME that works now is Add-an-app (not on Bolt, of course) and then only stuff listed as "Music" or "photos" genres, but "Music" HME apps don't work because of the broken MP3 features on most models, and through HME only MPEG2 videos work.


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## eohrnberger

davidblackledge said:


> Let's just call it "not actively supported."
> They break a little more of it with every update.
> * Bolt was released with add-an-app broken. They eventually "fixed" that by removing the button.
> * They broke add-an-app on everything for a few months, although they did fix it again.
> * They broke MP4 playback on all models and MP3 playback on some.
> * Now this.
> 
> So if I understand the reports correctly, the only HME that works now is Add-an-app (not on Bolt, of course) and then only stuff listed as "Music" or "photos" genres, but "Music" HME apps don't work because of the broken MP3 features on most models, and through HME only MPEG2 videos work.


I'm detecting a downhill slope with your recounting.

How long ago was it that the old TiVo was taken over / sold / transitioned? The old spirit has inertia which typically keeps the going for only so long.


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## wmcbrine

Lurker1 said:


> Are we jumping the gun to assume HME is dead and not just temporarily broken? The built-in music app has stopped working too, and no one is suggesting that is dead.


OK, let me suggest it: The built-in music app is also dead.

TiVo gave up on HME years ago, to all appearances. Existing apps just kept running by inertia. (TiVo dropped their own HME apps long since.) Now and then, they fiddle with some adjacent code, and in the process, break some aspect of HME or HMO. It happens more and more often, and is less and less often fixed when it does.

If you're holding your breath for some official declaration by TiVo, you'll be turning blue.


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## Lurker1

wmcbrine said:


> OK, let me suggest it: The built-in music app is also dead.


OK, your position sounds perfectly reasonable. In your estimation, how long do we have left until PC-to-TiVo video transfers permanently stop working with no warning or explanation? I notice that my pyTivo video shares are now greyed out with a yellow exclamation symbol - that can't be a good sign.


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## M2-

Stream Baby is showing up and working on my new Tivo Bolt software version 20.7.4xxxx. Not at home so can't remember exact version but I just fired up the new Bolt on 10/16/2017.


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## eohrnberger

M2- said:


> Stream Baby is showing up and working on my new Tivo Bolt software version 20.7.4xxxx. Not at home so can't remember exact version but I just fired up the new Bolt on 10/16/2017.


I've got 2 TiVo series 4 here that are still talking to Galleon. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad.

TiVo: Please don't disrupt what I've got. I like it, and I'm using it every day. Thanks in advance.


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## moyekj

My Elite has 20.7.4 and I confirm streambaby now shows up in "Apps" menu again, so looks like local HME apps are once again accessible via TiVo UI. Perhaps this will be last UI update before Hydra, so if one chooses not to go with Hydra (I certainly won't) hopefully this will work for a long time.


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## Dan203

Did they fix music shares too?


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## davidblackledge

davidblackledge said:


> Unfortunately, no, Genres are only a feature of Add-an-app servers, not local-network announced apps.
> 
> In fact, depending on how TiVo implemented it, it's even possible that is WHY they're not showing up - perhaps local apps are assumed as "other" genre by default on the TiVo, and the TiVo apps list is restricting listings to "music" and "photos" only. But don't take my word for it, I haven't looked at local apps in a while and I'm just throwing out a theory.





moyekj said:


> My Elite has 20.7.4 and I confirm streambaby now shows up in "Apps" menu again, so looks like local HME apps are once again accessible via TiVo UI.


EnterWebz users will notice that all listings are now showing again after this update. Looks to me like they simply fixed "other" genre (including local-network HME announced apps).

The interesting thing is, "other" genre items now show up before the "Add an App" buttons, and all others ("music" and "photos" genres) show up AFTER the "Add an App."
I don't list anything as "video" genre normally now...so I'm not sure which zone they show up in.

The bad news is, I have one user reporting Radio Auricle is no longer working for him (I presume on his Premiere... his Series 3 didn't get an update, I think) - so they may have added the mp3 player breakage to series 4 as well.


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