# 14.8b Software Update removes Streaming



## eddieb187 (Jan 17, 2009)

Tried to access TiVo Central this afternoon on my Premiere XL and got the THX intro. Obviously my XL rebooted during the night. 
After the intro I checked to see if there was a Software Update and now I have Version 14.8b.
I have two Premiere XLs, I checked the other one and it's still on 14.8 U2.
I called TiVo customer service and was told that there is a new Update being rolled out and it will remove the Streaming Feature that was recently added.
When I got off the phone I tried it, and sure enough the Streaming Feature was in fact removed. Does not work on 14.8b. 
I tried it on my Premiere with 14.8 U2 and streaming still works. So only the box you are watching has to have streaming enabled. Not the other box.

The customer service rep did not have much info on the update beyond the fact that there were some issues with streaming and they had to pull it. 
Also he could not tell me if or when Streaming will be put back.
I hope they can fix it and return this great feature soon. Most of the content from my cable provider is copy protected and cannot be transferred. 
Streaming was a must have feature for me.

Contact TiVo and ask them to please put it back.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

eddieb187 said:


> The customer service rep did not have much info on the update beyond the fact that there were some issues with streaming and they had to pull it.
> .


Great- second update in a row that "removes" functionality (a rollback) and adds really nothing. The saga continues...


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

eddieb187 said:


> The customer service rep did not have much info on the update beyond the fact that there were some issues with streaming and they had to pull it.


Using the same logic of it having "some issues" they would have to recall every single Premiere unit. Streaming didn't work well for me for shows longer than 1/2 hour so I rarely used it but for those it did work for that sucks.


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## P42 (Jan 7, 2003)

Is it removing functionality that was announced by Tivo? Or functionality that they slipped in for a larger beta test or in error?


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

It was pretty obvious that it was a bug that exposed streaming functionality before it was ready. So they're damned if they leave it because it's another buggy, half-baked feature, and they're damned if they remove it because it's removing functionality.

There's no pleasing some people. "That's just what Jesus said, sir."


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## TheWGP (Oct 26, 2007)

Eh, I'll be shocked if we see actually-enabled streaming much before the next quarterly earnings report / call. Gotta remember that's what drives anything and everything at Tivo these days. Not the engineering team's fault - the issues at Tivo are with management and policy.

This was called back in the thread where people reported streaming working - the first thing Tivo would do would be to remove it. Can't blame them, impossible situation really.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

if 14.8b removes the high number of reboots I've been experiencing with 14.8U2, then I'll be a very very happy camper


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

You would think they could have just left it. It wasn't hurting anything. They probably could have learned a lot about the problems people were having by reading this forum.


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## yoheidiho (Mar 31, 2011)

dianebrat said:


> if 14.8b removes the high number of reboots I've been experiencing with 14.8U2, then I'll be a very very happy camper


I'm in the same boat. I think I will force multiple connections to the TiVo servers to get ate update/rollback.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

aadam101 said:


> You would think they could have just left it. It wasn't hurting anything. They probably could have learned a lot about the problems people were having by reading this forum.


The main problem is a bunch of people for whatever reason seemed to be making a decision to buy the Premiere based on the buggy, unsupported, accidental unlocking of streaming.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

rahnbo said:


> The main problem is a bunch of people for whatever reason seemed to be making a decision to buy the Premiere based on the buggy, unsupported, accidental unlocking of streaming.


Yea add me as a sucker for 2 new premieres. :down:

Maybe I just won't active them and wait and see. @ $59.00 each It was not a big investment. Hell perhaps I'll pull the HDDs and use them in a new HTPC build.


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## Stuxnet (Feb 9, 2011)

I hope this doesn't rollback my daily TiVo cartoon


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Crap! I had been using the streaming pretty regularly with no issues. As long as I didn't try multiple concurrent streams and multiple recordings while streaming, I didn't have any issues. Of course that was not ideal, but at least it had been working for me.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

rahnbo said:


> The main problem is a bunch of people for whatever reason seemed to be making a decision to buy the Premiere based on the buggy, unsupported, accidental unlocking of streaming.


Yeah. The last thing Tivo wants to do is sell more units.


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## eddieb187 (Jan 17, 2009)

I didn't have any problems with streaming.
I hope they can fix the issues and officially release it.
Great feature.


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## seattlewendell (Jan 11, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> Crap! I had been using the streaming pretty regularly with no issues. As long as I didn't try multiple concurrent streams and multiple recordings while streaming, I didn't have any issues. Of course that was not ideal, but at least it had been working for me.


Same here. I had zero problems as long as there were no other active streams. I was a great way to watch restricted (red circle) content on my other Tivo's.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

rahnbo said:


> The main problem is a bunch of people for whatever reason seemed to be making a decision to buy the Premiere based on the buggy, unsupported, accidental unlocking of streaming.


Heh, sounds like the same problem of people buying a Premiere for the buggy, unsupported, accidental release of the HDUI.

<ducking>


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

slowbiscuit said:


> Heh, sounds like the same problem of people buying a Premiere for the buggy, unsupported, accidental release of the HDUI.
> 
> <ducking>


The release of the HDUI wasn't accidental. It was just irresponsible.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

aadam101 said:


> The release of the HDUI wasn't accidental. It was just irresponsible.


And necessary as TiVo was out of new TiVo-HD units at that time.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

slowbiscuit said:


> Heh, sounds like the same problem of people buying a Premiere for the buggy, unsupported, accidental release of the HDUI.
> 
> <ducking>


No need to duck. I totally agree and was speculating only to why they might have removed streaming. I think most of us saw that one coming. When I bought my Premieres I had a reasonable belief they would fix all the stuff that was so bad about it. After all, for the previous years of owning other units they had done so and had made them nearly bullet proof. But, we didn't know better back then when we bought Premieres (and THD was suspiciously unavailable) and the Premiere is still a mess to me.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

rahnbo said:


> No need to duck. I totally agree and was speculating only to why they might have removed streaming. I think most of us saw that one coming. When I bought my Premieres I had a reasonable belief they would fix all the stuff that was so bad about it. After all, for the previous years of owning other units they had done so and had made them nearly bullet proof. But, we didn't know better back then when we bought Premieres (and THD was suspiciously unavailable) and the Premiere is still a mess to me.


I have only one Premiere, so I don't have a dog in this fight. But I am willing to believe that they removed streaming for some honorable reason, like because it was buggy and maybe they even suspected it of causing other bugs. The removal does suggest that they don't think they can get streaming debugged anytime soon. As for TiVo HDs, I doubt that they were sending them to the crusher; I think people have said that they just ran out of them.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

dianebrat said:


> if 14.8b removes the high number of reboots I've been experiencing with 14.8U2, then I'll be a very very happy camper


Are you sure it was rebooting, and not just playing the TiVo animation a lot? I was getting the startup animation a lot, but not because of a reboot. (I checked my unit's uptime to confirm this.)

I switched to HDUI and then back to SDUI and it appears that I'm not getting the TiVo animation all the time any longer.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

dianebrat said:


> if 14.8b removes the high number of reboots I've been experiencing with 14.8U2, then I'll be a very very happy camper





Fofer said:


> Are you sure it was rebooting, and not just playing the TiVo animation a lot? I was getting the startup animation a lot, but not because of a reboot. (I checked my unit's uptime to confirm this.)
> 
> I switched to HDUI and then back to SDUI and it appears that I'm not getting the TiVo animation all the time any longer.


yes very sure, 30 days ago I had a rash of reboots over 3 days, could not make it an evening watching things without 1 or 2, then I got 25 days of stable operation (but with lots of random tivo start guy animations!) then Wednesday of this past week 2 more nights of almost constant reboots.

I was away for the weekend but will see what happens tonight.


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## yoheidiho (Mar 31, 2011)

Same rebooting issue here.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

never even noticed streaming...... hmm.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

New Premiere set up Wed night with SW 14.5-01

SW this morning is 14.8.U2-01 - Is this the SW version that enabled streaming?

Shouldn't it have updated to 14.8b? or does TiVo do incremental updates?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

CoxInPHX said:


> New Premiere set up Wed night with SW 14.5-01
> 
> SW this morning is 14.8.U2-01 - Is this the SW version that enabled streaming?
> 
> Shouldn't it have updated to 14.8b? or does TiVo do incremental updates?


My Premiere is still at the 14.8.U2-01 software version.

Not sure why some where rolled to the 14.8b and others were not.

In any event the undocumented streaming feature was only between 2 Premieres running the 14.8.U2-01 software (and of course on the same LAN). So unless you have another Premiere is matters little.


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## angel35 (Nov 5, 2004)

I am still waiting for the 14.b. Should i care?? Whats new in the update??


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

atmuscarella said:


> My Premiere is still at the 14.8.U2-01 software version.
> 
> Not sure why some where rolled to the 14.8b and others were not.
> 
> In any event the undocumented streaming feature was only between 2 Premieres running the 14.8.U2-01 software (and of course on the same LAN). So unless you have another Premiere is matters little.


Yes, I did purchase 2 Premieres on sale for $59, when I saw postings of streaming. But the day after I ordered them, I saw 14.8b was pushed, so I decided to hold off on activating both and just went with the one.

It will be interesting to see if it gets updated to 14.8b at the next DL window.

I'll play around with the one for now and not activate the second until streaming is official, or unless I get another itch.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

angel35 said:


> I am still waiting for the 14.b. Should i care?? Whats new in the update??


I JUST swapped out the HD in my Premiere XL that's been having issues to a clean 1.5TB Seagate and it updated overnight, to 14.8U2 

I'm going to just copy my 2TB WD to the 2TB Seagate and see if it's hardware and not lose my programs.


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## angel35 (Nov 5, 2004)

I have a new update 14.c Can some one tell me what this does???


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

You are the first to report this. Do you see anything different?


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## angel35 (Nov 5, 2004)

jrtroo said:


> You are the first to report this. Do you see anything different?


No. I dont see any thing different


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

The update is 14.8c. My Premiere updated overnight.


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## angel35 (Nov 5, 2004)

scandia101 said:


> The update is 14.8c. My Premiere updated overnight.


On my update the 8 is missing. IT says 14.c no 8 ???wich is right. Well the 8is now back so its 14.8c. so its right now.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I show both of mine with now with 14.8C. No idea what it does.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> I show both of mine with now with 14.8C. No idea what it does.


If it stops the reboots I kept getting with 14.8U2 it's a keeper in my book


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

I thought you were a huge fan of the Premiere! Reboots are unacceptable, especially since they take way too long on the Premiere.


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## jdgarrido (Jan 17, 2005)

I also got 14.8c but i don't have another premiere to test the streaming. Hopefully someone can confirm if it was enabled again.


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## forum1 (May 25, 2011)

dianebrat said:


> If it stops the reboots I kept getting with 14.8U2 it's a keeper in my book


Yes. I said the same thing to a TiVo support rep last night and I don't think he totally got it. I made it very clear that overall stability has gotten worse for me, and I'm not using the unsupported streaming feature.

Ever since my two Premiere units received 14.8.U2 back in late May I have seen sporadic reboots that have had nothing to do with a user triggering the unsupported, unofficial streaming feature. After both of my units rebooted for the second time in four days, seemingly by just going from watching Live TV to TiVo Central by pressing the TiVo button, I contacted TiVo support. Back then they made it sound like they knew about the issue but were still trying to get more information from boxes in the field. I was expecting a quick patch to be released, but so far I am still on the same junk software 2+ months later.

Of course every time I read a thread here I see someone else experiencing reboot or freeze symptoms for numerous suspected reasons, on various software versions. At this point I don't know what to expect. I guess a stable DVR is just too much to ask from a company that has been in the industry for well over a decade.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

forum1 said:


> Yes. I said the same thing to a TiVo support rep last night and I don't think he totally got it. I made it very clear that overall stability has gotten worse for me, and I'm not using the unsupported streaming feature.
> 
> Ever since my two Premiere units received 14.8.U2 back in late May I have seen sporadic reboots that have had nothing to do with a user triggering the unsupported, unofficial streaming feature. After both of my units rebooted for the second time in four days, seemingly by just going from watching Live TV to TiVo Central by pressing the TiVo button, I contacted TiVo support. Back then they made it sound like they knew about the issue but were still trying to get more information from boxes in the field. I was expecting a quick patch to be released, but so far I am still on the same junk software 2+ months later.
> 
> Of course every time I read a thread here I see someone else experiencing reboot or freeze symptoms for numerous suspected reasons, on various software versions. At this point I dont know what to expect. I guess a stable DVR is just too much to ask from a company that has been in the industry for well over a decade.


There's definitely a subset of us here that had completely stable units until 14.8U2 rolled out, I don't think it's a core issue with U2, just an interaction with a handful of units for some obscure reason.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

jdgarrido said:


> I also got 14.8c but i don't have another premiere to test the streaming. Hopefully someone can confirm if it was enabled again.


At least four of my boxes have 14.8c. I cannot stream between them.


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## eddieb187 (Jan 17, 2009)

I have 14.8c and can confirm that streaming is still disabled.
I haven't noticed any changes either. I just got 14.8b not long ago.
I wish TiVo would let customers know what's being updated.
I have to find out on the web.
A new useful feature could be added and you would never know it.


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## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

Any ideas when they will actually push this out? tried connecting repeatedly no change. Although last week had a lot of slow issues with my tivo. Forced a reboot and that resolved the problem.

any way 
good luck all


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

JACKASTOR said:


> Any ideas when they will actually push this out? tried connecting repeatedly no change.


This was a recording:

You will get it when it comes out.
Connecting repeatedly is a total waste of time.
They send it out in phases.
Nobody knows their schedule.
Just wait like everyone else.

Based on previous track record, you can also add these:

It probably won't fix whatever bug you have.
And/or, it will create new bugs you didn't have before.
And/or, they will revert the version shortly after.


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## torshire (May 3, 2006)

456,000 subscribers dumped their TiVo service in the last 3 months. TiVo better get their act together, because a few more quarters like that, and there won't be anyone left.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

torshire said:


> 456,000 subscribers dumped their TiVo service in the last 3 months. TiVo better get their act together, because a few more quarters like that, and there won't be anyone left.


There will be a few big fat subscribers called "cable companies". That seems to be the only ones whom Tivo cares about with respect to customer satisfaction.

Does anyone else see the irony in this? In this forum, cableco DVRs are generally regarded as inferior junk. Tivo wants to become a cableco DVR. They're turning into the thing they're meant to replace.

Now, if someone could just step it up and take Tivo's spot as maker of a quality DVR aimed at customer satisfaction... Unfortunately I don't see it happening with the cablecard nuisance being too big an impairment to sales.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

smbaker said:


> Does anyone else see the irony in this? In this forum, cableco DVRs are generally regarded as inferior junk. Tivo wants to become a cableco DVR. They're turning into the thing they're meant to replace.


TiVo isn't trying to be like cable company DVRs. They are trying to get their software on cable company dvrs. You make it sound like they are trying to create crappy dvrs like cable companies have. There's quite a difference.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

smbaker said:


> Now, if someone could just step it up and take Tivo's spot as maker of a quality DVR aimed at customer satisfaction... Unfortunately I don't see it happening with the cablecard nuisance being too big an impairment to sales.


TiVo is an excellent DVR.

The problem is people don't want a DVR they want a a combination DVR/streaming media device and that is what TiVo tried to be and is currently failing at.

If someone wants the best DVR you can buy just use a Premiere as a DVR. It works great and is the best you can buy and if you turn off the nearly worthless HDUI it will be even faster and pretty much issue free.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

atmuscarella said:


> If someone wants the best DVR you can buy just use a Premiere as a DVR. It works great and is the best you can buy and if you turn off the nearly worthless HDUI it will be even faster and pretty much issue free.


 Speak for yourself. There is a contingent of us using Premieres with SDUI suffering from the "does not respond to remote control" issue regularly that has been an issue ever since Premiere launched. The S3 doesn't have that issue and is still a more reliable DVR in my household for pure DVR functionality. TiVo is finally stepping up and working on that issue as apparently they were getting enough complaints about the problem to make their radar, which suggests the problem was more widespread than just a few people posting in these forums.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

I haven't had that issue, at least not with the Bluetooth slide remote that I use primarily.


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## jmaditto (Jul 29, 2007)

moyekj said:


> Speak for yourself. There is a contingent of us using Premieres with SDUI suffering from the "does not respond to remote control" issue regularly that has been an issue ever since Premiere launched. The S3 doesn't have that issue and is still a more reliable DVR in my household for pure DVR functionality. TiVo is finally stepping up and working on that issue as apparently they were getting enough complaints about the problem to make their radar, which suggests the problem was more widespread than just a few people posting in these forums.


Setting the resolution helped and even eliminated my freeze issue for a long time....now, over the last few weeks or maybe a bit longer, it started happening again. I just yank the power now and then wait 15minutes for the whole reboot process. TiVo is great on many levels but other stuff is just ridiculous. Better than anything else though.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Fofer said:


> I haven't had that issue, at least not with the Bluetooth slide remote that I use primarily.


 The issue has nothing to do with the kind of remote you use. In the "freeze" state the unit won't respond to IR remote, Bluetooth remote or even iPad remote. There's a long thread about it already so I won't rehash the details here.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Hmm. Well I'm glad I haven't read about it because I'm sure knowing the gory details are what will lead to it plaguing me and my Premiere. Ignorance = bliss and all


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

torshire said:


> 456,000 subscribers dumped their TiVo service in the last 3 months. TiVo better get their act together, because a few more quarters like that, and there won't be anyone left.


TiVo didn't lose that many subscribers in their last quarter. Did you read their earnings report? Churn actually dropped significantly to 1.9%.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Back when the streaming was working for folks....

Was it possible to stream a recording that was pushed to the tivo via pytivo? Those are disabled for transfer.


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## Dr_Diablo (Nov 24, 2003)

torshire said:


> 456,000 subscribers dumped their TiVo service in the last 3 months. TiVo better get their act together, because a few more quarters like that, and there won't be anyone left.


Sad but true, yet what is the alternative?

The cable DVR is at least 15 yrs behind what's present
ly available...

Can't access the tivo now, remotes not working... :down:


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

Dr_Diablo said:


> Sad but true, yet what is the alternative?
> 
> The cable DVR is at least 15 yrs behind what's present
> ly available...


That depends on WHICH cable DVR. The ones here are not that far behind TiVo... HD, multiroom, decent capacity, full guide, multi-tuning recording, online control, mobile apps. Plus you don't have to buy them, don't have to fight with tuning adapters, don't have to wait a week for a replacement when it fails, have full access to all the on-demand, and the monthly cost is about the same.

Any DVD/blu-ray/TV/game console now will do youtube, netflix, amazon, etc. The only things the TiVo Premiere has going for it now (for me anyway) is antenna, a better remote, TiVo suggestions, and a somewhat better UI.


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## PedjaR (Jan 4, 2010)

crxssi said:


> That depends on WHICH cable DVR. The ones here are not that far behind TiVo... HD, multiroom, decent capacity, full guide, multi-tuning recording, online control, mobile apps. Plus you don't have to buy them, don't have to fight with tuning adapters, don't have to wait a week for a replacement when it fails, have full access to all the on-demand, and the monthly cost is about the same.
> 
> Any DVD/blu-ray/TV/game console now will do youtube, netflix, amazon, etc. The only things the TiVo Premiere has going for it now (for me anyway) is antenna, a better remote, TiVo suggestions, and a somewhat better UI.


While that may vary with cable company, with Time Warner, you miss other stuff that some may consider important:

30 second skip
ability to filter channels from guide or searches; can't even remove stuff you don't subcscribe to or On Demand stuff
wishlists, or even a halfway decent search by keyword; the only thing available is search by the first word in the title
folders - your episodes of the same show are scattered
And the bad part of it is that some of the things are not mising because they are behind in development, but for political reasons, so there is not much hope you'll see them - 30 second skip to please content providers; they don't want you to remove channels so that you'll see something you like and maybe order a channel you are currently not subscribed to or On Demand Movie.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

TiVo has their top scientists struggling diligently to understand your problems. (That cartoon never gets old for me; it's so appropriate).

Sigh. Days go by, weeks go by, months go by, years go by, problems persist. As GWB might say to Rogers: "Tommy Boy, you're doing a heck of a job!"


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## forum1 (May 25, 2011)

dianebrat said:


> I JUST swapped out the HD in my Premiere XL that's been having issues to a clean 1.5TB Seagate and it updated overnight, to 14.8U2
> 
> I'm going to just copy my 2TB WD to the 2TB Seagate and see if it's hardware and not lose my programs.


Sorry to hear about all your headaches.

Both of my Premiere boxes have been running version 14.8c for a couple weeks now and so far no errant reboots.


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## randy1649 (Apr 18, 2011)

Havent been in here for a while. Shocked at the streaming removed thing. I have 3 and mine still stream great. Streaming works GREAT on my 3 tivo premiers. Always has!

I REALLY WISH PEOPLE WOULD STOP *****ING SO MUCH TO WHERE THE COMPANY REMOVES A FEATURE JUST BECAUSE SOME, FEW BUT SOME, HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THIS FEATURE OR WITH THAT FEATURE.!!!!!
YES... IM YELLING AT YOU FOLKS *****ING ALL THE TIME!!

If you hate tivo as is, DROP IT...EBAY IT...TRASH IT...CRAIGSLIST IT.... but STOP ALL THE *****ING. 
Obviously, if this feature works for most... it is no doubt YOUR poor quality network or possible that you opened your box and tinkered with it.
I'd HATE to find tivo removed ANY feature after just listening to a few ...."people".... *****ing here on the forums. 
I have learned one thing from hard cold experience... there are "some" people that will NEVER be happy with anything. Period!

Streaming works! Tivo works! 
Update your local network, wiring and or router if you have some issue not experienced by most other users. It just might be some issue on your part, ya know. And probably is just that.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

randy1649 said:


> Havent been in here for a while. Shocked at the streaming removed thing. I have 3 and mine still stream great. Streaming works GREAT on my 3 tivo premiers. Always has!
> 
> I REALLY WISH PEOPLE WOULD STOP *****ING SO MUCH TO WHERE THE COMPANY REMOVES A FEATURE JUST BECAUSE SOME, FEW BUT SOME, HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THIS FEATURE OR WITH THAT FEATURE.!!!!!
> YES... IM YELLING AT YOU FOLKS *****ING ALL THE TIME!!
> ...


Glad you are happy with your TiVos.

However TiVo to TiVo streaming doesn't currently work. MRV does work but that is not streaming. What happens with MRV is the file/show on TiVo A is copied to TiVo B and that is blocked by some cable companies.


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## MC Hammer (Jul 29, 2011)

randy1649 said:


> Havent been in here for a while. Shocked at the streaming removed thing. I have 3 and mine still stream great. Streaming works GREAT on my 3 tivo premiers. Always has!
> 
> I REALLY WISH PEOPLE WOULD STOP *****ING SO MUCH TO WHERE THE COMPANY REMOVES A FEATURE JUST BECAUSE SOME, FEW BUT SOME, HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THIS FEATURE OR WITH THAT FEATURE.!!!!!
> YES... IM YELLING AT YOU FOLKS *****ING ALL THE TIME!!
> ...


You're confusing streaming with multi-room viewing but I agree with you 100%.

Streaming was obviously still in its testing phase and will be reintroduced when it has been perfected.

Quit, whining about losing a feature that was surreptitiously added so as to avoid the majority of customers discovering/using it before it was ready to be released.


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## torshire (May 3, 2006)

Like many others who've come here to vent, I spent a lot of money on a DVR that does not work as advertised. Now if it were free, I (and I imagine most of the unsatisfied customers who have reported problems with their underperforming Premieres) wouldn't complain at all -- I'd just chuck the junky box (which has spontaneously rebooted twice today alone) into the trash.

But in my case, upgrading my unit + transferring Lifetime service ended up costing me $529 and change. So for those of you who respond to the litany of problems Tivo Premiere users have been having with "Quit yer whining!" I'll make you this deal -- send a check to me for $529 and I'll never say another bad word here or anywhere else about my p.o.s. Tivo. Otherwise, those of us that paid good money to get a lousy product reserve the right to whine all we want.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

This thread is not about other problems, it is about streaming. We all understand there are problems with Premiere, they are well documented in other threads, I have them from time to time too. 

Lets just keep this thread on topic- streaming. Which was never promised and only worked due to an accidential early release of a piece of code.


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## MC Hammer (Jul 29, 2011)

torshire said:


> Like many others who've come here to vent, I spent a lot of money on a DVR that does not work as advertised. Now if it were free, I (and I imagine most of the unsatisfied customers who have reported problems with their underperforming Premieres) wouldn't complain at all -- I'd just chuck the junky box (which has spontaneously rebooted twice today alone) into the trash.
> 
> But in my case, upgrading my unit + transferring Lifetime service ended up costing me $529 and change. So for those of you who respond to the litany of problems Tivo Premiere users have been having with "Quit yer whining!" I'll make you this deal -- send a check to me for $529 and I'll never say another bad word here or anywhere else about my p.o.s. Tivo. Otherwise, those of us that paid good money to get a lousy product reserve the right to whine all we want.


Multi-room streaming was never an advertised feature. You have the right to complain about any feature that was publically announced as available at the time you purchased your box. As this feature does not fall into that category, your argument is invalid.

EDIT: +1 jrtroo


----------



## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

MC Hammer said:


> Multi-room streaming was never an advertised feature. You have the right to complain about any feature that was publically announced as available at the time you purchased your box. As this feature does not fall into that category, your argument is invalid.
> 
> EDIT: +1 jrtroo


You have the right to complain about whatever you want.


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

torshire said:


> Like many others who've come here to vent, I spent a lot of money on a DVR that does not work as advertised. Now if it were free, I (and I imagine most of the unsatisfied customers who have reported problems with their underperforming Premieres) wouldn't complain at all -- I'd just chuck the junky box (which has spontaneously rebooted twice today alone) into the trash.
> 
> But in my case, upgrading my unit + transferring Lifetime service ended up costing me $529 and change. So for those of you who respond to the litany of problems Tivo Premiere users have been having with "Quit yer whining!" I'll make you this deal -- send a check to me for $529 and I'll never say another bad word here or anywhere else about my p.o.s. Tivo. Otherwise, those of us that paid good money to get a lousy product reserve the right to whine all we want.


What exactly did TiVo claim the Premiere could do that yours doesn't do? How does it not work as advertised?

At this point I think the Premiere does pretty much what TiVo said it would do. You may of course be unhappy with how it does what it does or even with the general over all performance, but unless you have a defective unit everything seems to be working at this point.

I have a Series 3 HD, TiVo HD, and a Premiere. They are all excellent DVRs. As far as "Smart" features go the Premiere's work and are better than the S3's or TiVo HD's, but I would still only give them a "C" or "B" grade.

Thanks,


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

randy1649 said:


> If you hate tivo as is, DROP IT...EBAY IT...TRASH IT...CRAIGSLIST IT....


Literally millions have. If it keeps up there will be no more features or boxes for retail. So I suggest folks tell TiVo exactly what they want (like streaming) and give them an opportunity to meet that need. Before they pull the plug.


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## HeatherA (Jan 10, 2002)

randy1649 said:


> Havent been in here for a while. Shocked at the streaming removed thing. I have 3 and mine still stream great. Streaming works GREAT on my 3 tivo premiers. Always has!
> 
> I REALLY WISH PEOPLE WOULD STOP *****ING SO MUCH TO WHERE THE COMPANY REMOVES A FEATURE JUST BECAUSE SOME, FEW BUT SOME, HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THIS FEATURE OR WITH THAT FEATURE.!!!!!
> YES... IM YELLING AT YOU FOLKS *****ING ALL THE TIME!!
> ...


Wow... pretty harsh post there. I have to say that Streaming did not work when it was available on my 2 Premieres. Well actually, it worked until it didn't and it locked up the unit receiving the stream. At which point the only way to unlock it was to reboot. The streaming was cool and I hope it comes back soon, the locking up was uncool and kept me from using the streaming because I knew the outcome.

I didn't ***** or moan and I love TiVo, yet I feel that I can share my experience with the feature... and something that locks the system up tight on most systems is NOT WORKING CORRECTLY. TiVo was right to pull it.

Oh and BTW... both of my Premieres were bought at different times and from different vendors so I can't blame the problem on hardware. My network is blazing fast and hard wired so that wasn't it... and there were many others with the same experience... thankfully TiVo listened!


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Ideally they wouldn't have accidentally-leaked the half-baked-and-obviously-not-ready-for-primetime streaming code in the first place. Then none of us would be complaining that the cool-and-anxiously-awaited-but-still-buggy feature was "unceremoniously" removed.

What TiVo needs to do now, is fix it, and release it, for real, like the big boy companies do. Anything less is just amateur hour...


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

davezatz said:


> Literally millions have. If it keeps up there will be no more features or boxes for retail. So I suggest folks tell TiVo exactly what they want (like streaming) and give them an opportunity to meet that need. Before they pull the plug.


The problem is people always wonder if TiVo is even listening. Sure we finally have something like the elite coming eventually hopefully soon, but if you look back prior to the launch of the premiere people were hoping that would be the premiere.

I really think one of TiVo's big problems which has only made matters worse is their secrecy and complete silence.

I am not saying don't tell TiVo what you want, which I try to send a complete and long list to Margret every 6 months or so, but it makes you wonder if they are really listening. Oh well maybe the next update whenever that is will bring something.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

There are just so many things TiVo has dropped the ball on. I have lost all confidence in them.

Sending a "complete and long list to Margret every 6 months or so?"

I've come to the conclusion that Margret's probably too busy updating her resumé.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> I really think one of TiVo's big problems which has only made matters worse is their secrecy and complete silence.


Agreed. And I suspect there are those who work there frustrated by the silence as well based on some interaction. But it's just their DNA and being publicly traded with fierce, ongoing patent struggles probably restrains them further.

Of course my overarching point was on the "TiVo" community forum which TiVo once helped bankroll and perhaps still does, we should feel free to express ourselves with hopes Pony or Jerry periodically check in and absorb the feedback. The haters will hate and the few remaining fanboys will do their thing.

In the meantime, based on this Insignia TiVo TV I have here, I feel pretty confident new Netflix and YouTube apps are headed our way. Streaming is also inevitable. As to when, you never know with these guys but I'd lay $20 on a 2011 delivery for all of the above.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Unfortunately I get the feeling that some of the TiVo employees that used to or still frequent the site have little if any influence these days.


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## PrimeRisk (Dec 16, 2002)

If I were a TiVo employee and ran around this board, I'd never admit it.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

davezatz said:


> Literally millions have.


That's a pretty irresponsible statement - the overwhelming majority of former Tivo subs are former DirecTV subs that left because DTV moved away from Tivo and left their Tivo users essentially high and dry when they moved to MPEG4.

Tivo hasn't lost millions of subs because of the feature issues in the stand alone product line.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

The numbers sure ain't encouraging:










http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...ter-back-to-mid-2004-subscriber-levels/93811/


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

davezatz said:


> ... with hopes Pony or Jerry periodically check in and absorb the feedback.


Given the downright rudeness and attacks that they received near the end of when they publicly posted here on a regular basis, I doubt we'll ever see the level of openness (which was still less than many hoped for) they once provided ever again.

I would hope that Tivo would officially participate here again at some point, but don't hold my breath.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

PrimeRisk said:


> If I were a TiVo employee and ran around this board, I'd never admit it.


Think we found one


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Fofer said:


> The numbers sure ain't encouraging:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hopefully with the partners and products they now have they will start to increase subscribers again. If not in 3Q2011 then in 4Q2011.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Fofer said:


> The numbers sure ain't encouraging:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you just look at stand alone TiVo owned subs they are down 537,000 from their peek in Jan 2008. What seems really telling to me is what has happened since the Premiere was released with stand alone subs which are down over 200,000 since the Premiere's release.

What I am not clear on is am I 1 sub or do I count as 4 subs because I have 4 active TiVos on my account?

Thanks,


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

atmuscarella said:


> What I am not clear on is am I 1 sub or do I count as 4 subs because I have 4 active TiVos on my account?
> 
> Thanks,


Each active subscription counts as a subscriber. They amortize lifetime subscribers over 5-years (60 months) from a revenue generating perspective.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

jfh3 said:


> Given the downright rudeness and attacks that they received near the end I would hope that Tivo would officially participate here again at some point, but don't hold my breath.


Using the forum as a barometer doesn't require participation. Many companies mine this sort of discussion for product and marketing teams without saying a word. I'm hopeful TiVo still cares enough to do the same.



> That's a pretty irresponsible statement


OK, so I'll go with atmuscarella's analysis instead:

_stand alone subs are down over 200,000 since the Premiere's release._

What we can take from that is folks are retiring older TiVo units and choosing not to replace them with the latest and greatest. Despite the fact that TiVo hardware is as cheap as its ever been. They lose more retail customers per month than they gain - which is generally an unsustainable business. And probably why they're prioritizing things like the Virgin TiVo and Best Buy TV over Premiere updates. Our numbers are small and shrinking.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

sbiller said:


> Each active subscription counts as a subscriber. They amortize lifetime subscribers over 5-years (60 months) from a revenue generating perspective.


Ok this may explain some of the TiVo owned sub loss. I am fairly sure that over the last several years many single tuner TiVos have been replaced and that in some cases a person was able to replace 2 single tuner TiVos with 1 dual tuner unit. I expect the same will happen with the new quad tuner units (1 quad tuner unit replacing 2 dual tuner units). I would also expect that most people who where using a single tuner TiVo for satellite have moved on to their satellite provider's HD DVR.

Of course even if there are reasons for some of TiVo's sub loss it really doesn't change the fact that they are shrinking company not a growing one.

We can all speculate where sub numbers would be if the Premiere had actually been an excellent revolutionary upgrade when released, instead of an excessively buggy evolutionary upgrade. My guess is the number of TiVo owned subs would still have gone down just not as fast/far.

Thanks,


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

jfh3 said:


> Given the downright rudeness and attacks that they received near the end of when they publicly posted here on a regular basis, I doubt we'll ever see the level of openness (which was still less than many hoped for) they once provided ever again.
> 
> I would hope that Tivo would officially participate here again at some point, but don't hold my breath.


Please. On any company/product forum, you're going to find haters and fanboys. This one is no better or worse than others, although I have to admit after the disappointment of the Premiere there are a lot less fanboys around now.

Tivo just doesn't want to listen and participate, for whatever reason. There are plenty of reasonable folks that are willing to converse with them, and Tivo should be willing to ignore the extremes in return. Frankly I think they have plenty of good folks and programmers there, but mgmt is tying their hands on participation and new features.

The subscriber losses may or may not have anything to do with their lack of participation and explanation of software changes, upcoming features, etc., but it can't be helping. Many folks have posted here that they used to evangelize for Tivo, but after the Premiere no more.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

slowbiscuit said:


> Please. On any company/product forum, you're going to find haters and fanboys. This one is no better or worse than others, although I have to admit after the disappointment of the Premiere there are a lot less fanboys around now.


There's a difference between hating on a product and hating on employees of the company that makes said product. Lately there's been a lot of the later any time someone from TiVo posts. To me that's unacceptable whether you hate the product or not. It doesn't surprise me that they don't post here much anymore.


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## Agent86 (Jan 18, 2002)

nooneuknow said:


> TiVoJerry recently posted in some oddball thread here, that given the type of response he gets, he's considering leaving TCF, and public forums, altogether.
> 
> He also said that TiVo's higher-ups, have, in fact, tied his and others' hands. He's not happy about the restrictions/limitations, and feels that before they were imposed, issues seemed to be resolved much faster.*
> 
> ...


I believe this is the post/thread you are referencing.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

nooneuknow said:


> He also said that TiVo's higher-ups, have, in fact, tied his and others' hands. He's not happy about the restrictions/limitations, and feels that before they were imposed, issues seemed to be resolved much faster.


Perhaps the next Director of Corporate Communications will be able to convince his/her senior management peers that the forum is both a marketing, usability, and support opportunity related to these job req bullets below. And that pros far outweigh the cons. Forums were "social media" long before there was social media. I've often pointed out threads to the PR team that I suggested someone respond to. Unfortunately, it does seem like a culture of conservatism has further prevented folks from participating. (And it sucks that I probably had a hand in that.) The only one who appears to have free reign and/or interest these days is Margret on Twitter (@tivodesign). The blog is just marketing fluff, rather than being used as an opportunity to engage folks and on Facebook most of the interesting contributions come from megazone rather than TiVo. Ah well. Like I said... I at least hope they're listening and mining our chatter.

http://hire.jobvite.com/CompanyJobs/Careers.aspx?k=Job&c=qMW9Vfww&j=oXXSVfwr


Develop, manage and implement the communications and public relations strategies and plans to reinforce the brand position and support TiVo's overall corporate business goals globally
Collaborate with senior leadership to develop and execute strategic, comprehensive plans that span multiple business areas, then drive the creation and manage the operational execution of strategic short-term and long-term public relations plans
Work in close collaboration with other marketing functions on the integration of PR into marketing initiatives leveraging ROI based metrics including social media and social marketing


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## mrsean (May 15, 2006)

morac said:


> There's a difference between hating on a product and hating on employees of the company that makes said product. Lately there's been a lot of the later any time someone from TiVo posts. To me that's unacceptable whether you hate the product or not. It doesn't surprise me that they don't post here much anymore.


Sorry, but I co-sign everything that Slowbiscuit said. TiVo and it's employees are far too "thin-skined" IMO. They started a business that deals with the public and now they want to cower and hide when things aren't going well for them. As a company that provides services to the public, they should expect a fair amount of public criticism when their customers are unhappy. As the saying goes, "It comes with the job".

I'd been on this board for five years now and yes, I have seen many of posts where the poster clearly needs to spend less time focused their DVR. However, in practically ever case the poster was asked to remain accurate in their account and respectful in tone to their fellow board members by another poster. If the rude behavior continued then a mod would step in within a timely fashion.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

mrsean said:


> If the rude behavior continued then a mod would step in within a timely fashion.


Actually, I think that is part of the problem. I have yet to see a direct mod intervention on a rude/out of bounds post. It has gotten to be lord of the flies in here, and it is clear that a strong leadership would help keep things more on track.

What is this thread about? Oh yea, the removal of streaming. I hope they figure it out soon, a working streaming option would certainly help with the BS that users of TW must endure.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

morac said:


> There's a difference between hating on a product and hating on employees of the company that makes said product. Lately there's been a lot of the later any time someone from TiVo posts. To me that's unacceptable whether you hate the product or not. It doesn't surprise me that they don't post here much anymore.


I've never seen any hatred of Tivo employees here, but maybe I'm just reading the wrong threads. Accusing them of incompetence and fiscal mismanagement, sure, but that's not hating. TivoJerry and the few others from Tivo that post here get off pretty easy, at least in direct conversation. Well, maybe except for that clueless CSR that posted in one of the Tivo HD threads a few months ago...


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

slowbiscuit said:


> I've never seen any hatred of Tivo employees here, but maybe I'm just reading the wrong threads. Accusing them of incompetence and fiscal mismanagement, sure, but that's not hating. And I've never even seen this directly posted as a response to TivoJerry or any of the few others that post here.


I agree. I have been on this forum for almost a decade. I remember a time when Tivo employees used to be very active.

That being said, if I was a Tivo employee, I wouldn't post here either. They are working for a dog company with a dog product. There is nothing they can say to change that. The best thing they can do is keep quiet.

Take a look at their Facebook wall. It doesn't matter what they post over there, they get bombarded with complaints. I have no idea why they keep posting. If I was a thinking about buying a Tivo for the first time, that Facebook wall would certainly make me think twice.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

Agent86 said:


> I believe this is the post/thread you are referencing.


The thread is right (as far as being the "oddball thread") and the posting you reference is one a series of posts in that thread from him, that add up to roughly what I posted. I couldn't recall what thread, or I would have went there and placed the link here, as you did. Thanks.

I hadn't seen any posts from him in quite some time. Then voila! He made quite a few posts over several threads. My post was a little inaccurate. I made it sound like he said/implied all that, in one post, in the thread you referenced.

Regardless, I do believe that there was another thread and another post, somewhere, in which he posted something closer to what I said he said/implied, in a longer post. I'll post a link if I find it.

I'm going to delete my other post, and stick with actual quotes and links.


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## ciper (Nov 4, 2004)

davezatz said:


> Perhaps the next Director of Corporate Communications will be able to convince his/her senior management peers that the forum is both a marketing, usability, and support opportunity related to these job req bullets below. And that pros far outweigh the cons. Forums were "social media" long before there was social media. I've often pointed out threads to the PR team that I suggested someone respond to.


Lets see if people get upset that I necro'd this post but I thought the discussion was still valid. There are numerous bugs that the existed since at least 2007 on the TivoHD that were never fixed and that fricking SUCKS considering how much I payed for hardware and lifetime subscriptions. I don't only mean for the THD but I own numerous lifetime series one and series two boxes, and have convinced many friends and family to buy them as well.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

ciper said:


> Lets see if people get upset that I necro'd this post but I thought the discussion was still valid. There are numerous bugs that the existed since at least 2007 on the TivoHD that were never fixed and that fricking SUCKS considering how much I payed for hardware and lifetime subscriptions. I don't only mean for the THD but I own numerous lifetime series one and series two boxes, and have convinced many friends and family to buy them as well.


The first generation iPad was delivered on March 12, 2010 and received it's last software update on May 7th 2012. Two years from release to outdated for a $499 (lowest price) piece of equipment.

It still works and so do the prior gen TiVo's, I am not understanding how this is any different.

Oh, and yes the origional iPad has bugs and crashes all the time - I know, I need to replace one for Christmas.

Upset? No, but as with any consumer electronic - if you want the newest features, then upgrade. You have what you paid for.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

ciper said:


> Lets see if people get upset that I necro'd this post but I thought the discussion was still valid. There are numerous bugs that the existed since at least 2007 on the TivoHD that were never fixed and that fricking SUCKS considering how much I payed for hardware and lifetime subscriptions. I don't only mean for the THD but I own numerous lifetime series one and series two boxes, and have convinced many friends and family to buy them as well.


1st no, I'm not upset.
Just wondering why you think an old discussion in the Premiere forum about a specific problem with Tivo Premieres that was resolved several years ago has any bearing on your complaint about bugs in the TivoHD and earlier models when there are plenty of discussions regarding bugs and issues in the TivoHD forum and Tivo Help Center forum that would be far more appropriate as launchpads to discuss your problems.

Why complain about about nonspecific S1, S2, and TivoHD issues in a forum for the Tivo Premiere models at all rather than in the TivoHD forum or the Tivo Help Center forum?

Help me understand this.


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## forum1 (May 25, 2011)

bradleys said:


> The first generation iPad was delivered on March 12, 2010 and received it's last software update on May 7th 2012. Two years from release to outdated for a $499 (lowest price) piece of equipment.
> 
> It still works and so do the prior gen TiVo's, I am not understanding how this is any different.
> 
> ...


I sure hope the consumer market as a whole doesnt start to hold Apple as a model of behavior for all other electronics/software companies. If you find their practices acceptable, thats good for you. I do not and thus do not own any Apple products.

I own TiVo products because, at least in the earlier years, they had a superior product and a great user community that was supported and encouraged by TiVo proper. Clearly this has changed. I have a lot less interest in giving TiVo another chance after having dealt with far too many Series 4 debacles.

I would certainly argue that I paid for a complete HD UI on the Premiere and have yet to receive it. Im not asking for new features, just the ones that were promised at time of purchase, which includes a level of stability and reliability youd expect from an appliance type device that has a relatively static environment. Beyond that, paying for service should assure some level of sustaining software support for bugs in the existing feature set. Presumably this wouldnt be a long-term or perpetual burden on the vendor if they delivered the features they promised at platform launch and got the system stabilized early on.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

forum1 said:


> I sure hope the consumer market as a whole doesnt start to hold Apple as a model of behavior for all other electronics/software companies.


I sure do. We should be so lucky.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

forum1 said:


> I sure hope the consumer market as a whole doesn't start to hold Apple as a model of behavior for all other electronics/software companies. If you find their practices acceptable, that's good for you. I do not and thus do not own any Apple products.
> 
> I own TiVo products because, at least in the earlier years, they had a superior product and a great user community that was supported and encouraged by TiVo proper. Clearly this has changed. I have a lot less interest in giving TiVo another chance after having dealt with far too many Series 4 debacles.
> 
> I would certainly argue that I paid for a complete HD UI on the Premiere and have yet to receive it. I'm not asking for new features, just the ones that were promised at time of purchase, which includes a level of stability and reliability you'd expect from an appliance type device that has a relatively static environment. Beyond that, paying for service should assure some level of sustaining software support for bugs in the existing feature set. Presumably this wouldn't be a long-term or perpetual burden on the vendor if they delivered the features they promised at platform launch and got the system stabilized early on.


How did you pay for a complete HDUI when Tivo never stated that the HDUI would be completed? Heck, even with the Roamio it's up in the air whether the HDUI will be competely finished. At this point I don't expect the HDUI to be 100% completed on either my Premiere or my Roamio Pro.


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## PrimeRisk (Dec 16, 2002)

forum1 said:


> I sure hope the consumer market as a whole doesnt start to hold Apple as a model of behavior for all other electronics/software companies. If you find their practices acceptable, thats good for you. I do not and thus do not own any Apple products.
> 
> I own TiVo products because, at least in the earlier years, they had a superior product and a great user community that was supported and encouraged by TiVo proper. Clearly this has changed. I have a lot less interest in giving TiVo another chance after having dealt with far too many Series 4 debacles.


My perspective is certainly different on TiVo and their support. I have owned TiVos since 2000 and still own boxes from every series. I believe the support and longevity of TiVos has been great, especially when you compare them to the competition.

I will admit that so far, the Series 4 has been my least favorite. Primarily this is from a performance standpoint. It doesn't bother me that we have a mixture of HD and non-HD menus. I'm much less concerned about how pretty it looks, I want the features and performance. For a long time I still ran the SDUI for that very reason. Now that I have a Roamio Pro, I get all three.



forum1 said:


> I would certainly argue that I paid for a complete HD UI on the Premiere and have yet to receive it. Im not asking for new features, just the ones that were promised at time of purchase, which includes a level of stability and reliability youd expect from an appliance type device that has a relatively static environment. Beyond that, paying for service should assure some level of sustaining software support for bugs in the existing feature set. Presumably this wouldnt be a long-term or perpetual burden on the vendor if they delivered the features they promised at platform launch and got the system stabilized early on.


I don't agree with you here. Ever since IBM started selling software there were promises for the features that would come next. What they were selling was vaporware. I don't think TiVo sells much vaporware. I didn't buy my first series 1 box thinking I was going to get anything more than what they were offering at the time. Same with the series 4, just a HD box with OTA capability and high capacity. No where on my box were there promises of features that weren't in the device. There was no streaming enabled when I bought in and if it had never materialized, I wouldn't be complaining that it didn't. There are no guarantees that anything will be upgraded and enhanced ever. You get what you get when you buy it and if you get anything else, well you are getting bonus points.

As far as sustaining the software goes, I think that TiVo has a pretty darn good track record on that front. The Series 1 and 2 boxes were update way beyond the 2 year window that Apple supported the iPad 1. If memory serves, TiVo updated all series to support the daylight savings time changes enacted in 2007. Backwards compatibility has been maintained also, I can MRV shows to and from my Series 5 and Series 2, 3, and 4 devices.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

PrimeRisk said:


> ...If memory serves, TiVo updated all series to support the daylight savings time changes enacted in 2007...


That's a charitible way of saying they foolishly hard coded the DST changeover dates, despite the change in them as recently as 1986 and mid '70s oil ebargo-inspired experiment with year round DST, and had to fix their screwup.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

unitron said:


> That's a charitible way of saying they foolishly hard coded the DST changeover dates, despite the change in them as recently as 1986 and mid '70s oil ebargo-inspired experiment with year round DST, and had to fix their screwup.


That very well may be, but TiVo wasn't the only company caught flat footed with the DST change. I still have clock radio that "self adjusts" for daylight savings time on the wrong dates.

I suppose they could have built an admin screen to allow the user to change the DST dates. Then everyone could complain that it was still in SDUI!


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## PrimeRisk (Dec 16, 2002)

unitron said:


> That's a charitible way of saying they foolishly hard coded the DST changeover dates, despite the change in them as recently as 1986 and mid '70s oil ebargo-inspired experiment with year round DST, and had to fix their screwup.


Well, I never said their code was bug-free or designed perfectly, just that while they could have walked away from the Series 1 customers, they did not. I would be interested to know how many S1s are still making their daily call, it's probably quite a few.


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## forum1 (May 25, 2011)

aaronwt said:


> How did you pay for a complete HDUI when Tivo never stated that the HDUI would be completed? Heck, even with the Roamio it's up in the air whether the HDUI will be competely finished. At this point I don't expect the HDUI to be 100% completed on either my Premiere or my Roamio Pro.


Maybe you didn't see the same materials I did, but when the Premiere was released there were various marketing materials from TiVo stating the unit had a new, faster responding, HDUI. If you are arguing that they weren't explicit in stating it was a "complete HDUI", without a mix of HD and SD screens that cause your display to re-sync, loss of the video preview window for no good reason , etc. well, I guess you may have got me there! But even with the semantics game aside, TiVo support concurred with me and other customers that the HDUI, in complete form, was late for Premiere launch and assured customers that they were working to complete the HDUI. Three years later we are still waiting. I assume you also would say that because they never gave a specific timeframe on the completion that it absolves TiVo from ever delivering it. You can play semantics all you want, but clearly there are many people on this forum that agree the HDUI had been promised and not delivered.


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## forum1 (May 25, 2011)

PrimeRisk said:


> My perspective is certainly different on TiVo and their support. I have owned TiVos since 2000 and still own boxes from every series. I believe the support and longevity of TiVos has been great, especially when you compare them to the competition.
> 
> I will admit that so far, the Series 4 has been my least favorite. Primarily this is from a performance standpoint. It doesn't bother me that we have a mixture of HD and non-HD menus. I'm much less concerned about how pretty it looks, I want the features and performance. For a long time I still ran the SDUI for that very reason. Now that I have a Roamio Pro, I get all three.


Ive also owned TiVos since 2000, although I no longer own any Series 1, 2, or 3 units. The Series 4 performance issues have certainly bothered me, especially since I purchased these units with the express desire to have a consistent HDUI experience, and what HDUI it does have is something that really slows the box down, as you noted. You may consider the HDUI to be merely an esthetics issue that makes this pretty, but to me its functionality. I dont want the display having to re-sync due to a change in resolution, have the video preview window go away when it doesnt need to, or not be able to see as much data on a single UI screen. What you say you can now get with the Roamio is closer (but still not a complete HDUI from what I have read) to what TiVo promised me with the Premiere.



PrimeRisk said:


> I don't agree with you here. Ever since IBM started selling software there were promises for the features that would come next. What they were selling was vaporware. I don't think TiVo sells much vaporware. I didn't buy my first series 1 box thinking I was going to get anything more than what they were offering at the time. Same with the series 4, just a HD box with OTA capability and high capacity. No where on my box were there promises of features that weren't in the device. There was no streaming enabled when I bought in and if it had never materialized, I wouldn't be complaining that it didn't. There are no guarantees that anything will be upgraded and enhanced ever. You get what you get when you buy it and if you get anything else, well you are getting bonus points.
> 
> As far as sustaining the software goes, I think that TiVo has a pretty darn good track record on that front. The Series 1 and 2 boxes were update way beyond the 2 year window that Apple supported the iPad 1. If memory serves, TiVo updated all series to support the daylight savings time changes enacted in 2007. Backwards compatibility has been maintained also, I can MRV shows to and from my Series 5 and Series 2, 3, and 4 devices.


So you dont feel there were any undelivered items or vaporware. Good for you! It was communicated to me that the Premiere had an HDUI that was more responsive than prior TiVo UIs. I did not receive this in either respect. Im not saying that TiVo didnt add other features that were not part of the original advertised functionality, certainly they did. Im glad those things make you feel you got even more than you bargained for. Im still waiting for something I was sold as part of the initial release feature set.

And here we are again with the premise that because another company has done something less than savory or has certain business practices means its OK for another company to do the same. If that is the rationale you must follow then I guess I really cant expect you to seriously consider my position.

Finally, my sustaining comment was a response to where it was suggested by bradleys that there should be no expectation of sustaining work on a TiVo unit after two years since Apple stopped doing it on the first gen iPad after roughly two years. You also made the same reference. My points were that I wouldnt use Apple as a model for others to imitate, that a TiVo DVR is a different type of device (more appliance like) than an iPad, and that paying for the TiVo service should assure a sufficient level of revenue for TiVo to more than offset any modest sustaining efforts that may be required beyond an initial solid product release. Yes, TiVo does sustaining work beyond two years of product release, but from what some people seem to be saying, they should just cut everyone loose after two years.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

forum1 said:


> ...especially since I purchased these units with the express desire to have a consistent HDUI experience, and what HDUI it does have is something that really slows the box down, as you noted


As far as I understand, it's not merely the HDUI graphics that slow it down, it was TiVo's boneheaded decision to make many of the elements that require frequent refreshing (like the banner on top) to be dependent on the internet. That the Premiere HDUI is crippled in any way when the internet is out is patently ridiculous, if you ask me.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Bottom line is the updates to the Premiere line are numbered.

We go through this exact conversation every time a new model comes out. It is obvious and predictable.

You have a TiVo, if you don't think it met your expectations, that is absolutely your right to feel slighted. But it isn't going to change a dang thing.

It didn't help the people who *****ed and complained when the Series 2 came out with MRV, it didn't help the guys when the S3 came out with HD, it didn't help the OLED people when the HD came out with single M-Card support, it didn't help the Premiere 2 tuner users when the mini wasn't supported and all your *****ing and complaining isn't going to turn your S4 into an S5.

So you can 1) continue to whine and cry that you feel slighted, you can 2) find another product that meets you needs and treats you better then TiVo, or you can 3) upgrade.

Outside of those options - you are just wasting everyone's time.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

While I'd agree with your analysis of TiVo's upgrade pattern, and the inevitability of disappointment they've ingrained in us, I feel compelled to add that sometimes venting (and commiserating with others who may agree) simply feels good. If anyone reading this thread feels their time is "wasted," then I'd suggest they unsubscribe, or not click it to read it in the first place.

Because telling someone who's posting on an internet forum that they're "waiting everyone's time" seems like an even bigger waste of time to me.

<shrug>


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

The thing is Fofer, nobody does business any differently then TiVo in this regard. And actually, I would disagree with the claim that it is in some way wrong.

I agree, I can and will step away, but ignoring this stuff just promotes this self entitlement everyone seems to be full of.

At least you're consistent - you always complain.

Now the woodwork opens up and anyone feeling like they are being passed up has a complaint - and it happens every time.

If you want the new features, sell your lifetime TiVo for $300 and upgrade! It really is that easy.


For now, I decommissioned my S3 OLED and HD units and replaced them with a Roamio Plus and a Mini. I moved my Premiere upstairs.

I couldn't be happier!


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

bradleys said:


> At least you're consistent - you always complain.


Ummm... this is false. But whatever.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Fofer said:


> Ummm... this is false. But whatever.


It was an attempt at just a little levity. I should've included an emoticon.


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## forum1 (May 25, 2011)

bradleys said:


> Bottom line is the updates to the Premiere line are numbered.
> 
> We go through this exact conversation every time a new model comes out. It is obvious and predictable.
> 
> ...


Maybe I am mistaken, but all of your examples sound like people with a prior generation unit complaining about not having new features that were only advertised and introduced in a later generation unit. I was not doing that. What I was doing, in response to your post #97, was saying that we shouldnt expect TiVo to take cues from Apples iPad by dropping even sustaining efforts (for bugs and crashes like you said) after only two years. Aside from being a different type of device, the subscription service revenue TiVo receives should allow for a longer sustaining effort, and historically TiVo has delivered this. I was also providing an example of at least one undelivered feature, that was promised as part of the Premiere release, in response to your you got what you paid for comment. Others brought the Roamio into the mix, and on that front, I can say I am not interested in the Roamio at this point as even it is not offering a complete HD UI. Im not complaining that my S4 is not an S5.



bradleys said:


> Now the woodwork opens up and anyone feeling like they are being passed up has a complaint - and it happens every time.


As far as opening up the woodwork again, I think you did a good of this with your post #97. I had no plans to respond to post #96, and feel that scandia101 had the most appropriate response without inciting further discussion.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

You may very well get more of the screens converted - not sure at this point what value it brings (based on what is remaining) - but TiVo hasn't said that it will not update those screens. They also haven't specifically said they were planning on updating them on the Roamio any time soon.

If you can't tell, I kind of see the remaining HDUI screens as little more then a convenient Red Herring issue. 

And I did purchase the S3 OLED, and we were promised multi stream cable card support. That is far more significant (monthly fee) then a few admin screens that haven't been updated to HDUI.

Get a Roamio or don't, that is your decision.


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## cram501 (Oct 23, 2002)

bradleys said:


> And I did purchase the S3 OLED, and we were promised multi stream cable card support. That is far more significant (monthly fee) then a few admin screens that haven't been updated to HDUI.


Tivo never promised M-card support for the original S3 when it was released. They hinted that it should be capable of supporting it. Later they said they wouldn't add m-card support because it was risky and the number of units was so small.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6598668#post6598668

I didn't find it too irritating since it worked as expected with two cards.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Having to use two cards is irritating because that typically means a higher monthly cable bill. If TiVo did this right, it would save customers money on that cable bill. I'd be annoyed if I still had a DVR that was making me pay my cable company more money than I should've had to, monthly, because TiVo didn't do it right.


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## forum1 (May 25, 2011)

bradleys said:


> You may very well get more of the screens converted - not sure at this point what value it brings (based on what is remaining) - but TiVo hasn't said that it will not update those screens. They also haven't specifically said they were planning on updating them on the Roamio any time soon.
> 
> If you can't tell, I kind of see the remaining HDUI screens as little more then a convenient Red Herring issue.


Yeah, I got that it's trivial from your perspective. Others have also made the observation that they don't use the remaining SD screens often. But from my perspective it's quite a mess. For example, if I navigate to Settings & Messages > Settings > Displays > Customize Discovery Bar OR Video Window; The UI actually ends up going from HD, to SD, and then back to HD on the final configuration screen. It seems like it has gone schizophrenic.

For a less obscure path, I'd like to be able to read and delete Messages without losing the video window. I actually get a lot of regular messages about lineup changes due to the Verizon FiOS TV service.



bradleys said:


> And I did purchase the S3 OLED, and we were promised multi stream cable card support. That is far more significant (monthly fee) then a few admin screens that haven't been updated to HDUI.


While I am not familiar with the promises made back then about this, I'll take your word for it. That certainly sucks.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

forum1 said:


> Yeah, I got that it's trivial from your perspective. Others have also made the observation that they don't use the remaining SD screens often. But from my perspective it's quite a mess. For example, if I navigate to Settings & Messages > Settings > Displays > Customize Discovery Bar OR Video Window; The UI actually ends up going from HD, to SD, and then back to HD on the final configuration screen. It seems like it has gone schizophrenic.


I'll ask this in all seriousness, how often do you actually do that?

I haven't seen an SDUI screen in ages for normal operation after the last update that filled in a few of the HDUI blanks.

However this has nothing to do with the actual thread, this should be in one of the other Premiere threads that deals with these issues.


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## forum1 (May 25, 2011)

dianebrat said:


> I'll ask this in all seriousness, how often do you actually do that?
> 
> I haven't seen an SDUI screen in ages for normal operation after the last update that filled in a few of the HDUI blanks.


Hi dianebrat! It's been a while since we've exchanged posts. I hope all is well. 

To answer your question, of course I don't muck with the Settings much. I only provided that specific UI path example because it doesn't just cause a switch from HD to SD once as you progress, but actually switches again, bringing you *back* to an HD screen for the final destination. It's extra messy and shows how the piecemeal HDUI efforts have produced some pretty ugly and annoying behavior.

I did however state that I access the Messages screen quite a bit (at least weekly, often more) to read and delete the frequent channel lineup messages I get. I really wish this screen were converted to the HDUI format so that the video window could remain active while reading and deleting messages.



dianebrat said:


> However this has nothing to do with the actual thread, this should be in one of the other Premiere threads that deals with these issues.


I refer you back to the last two days of posts to explain how things got here. With that, I think its time for me to do a little cleanup of my subscribed threads.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

dianebrat said:


> However this has nothing to do with the actual thread, this should be in one of the other Premiere threads that deals with these issues.


Nothing posted after 9/28/11 belongs in this thread.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> Nothing posted after 9/28/11 belongs in this thread.


I agree, I was hoping to point folks out to existing more appropriate threads, but I doubt that will happen


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