# MOCA Without Broad Band Internet



## SprintDrive (11 mo ago)

I have an Xfiniity Triple Play package and was thinking of downgrading to just TV. I currently have a Bolt and three minis networked over MOCA. Will MOCA work without Broad Band?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

TL;DR: Yes. But the MoCA segment will need a link to the Internet, for the sake of the TiVo boxes.

- - -
MoCA’s just a means of establishing a network link over coax and doesn’t require ANY Internet connection, let alone a cable Internet setup; one could setup a local LAN link between a couple computers, sans any Internet connection, via MoCA, same as for Ethernet.

You just need coax interconnection between two or more locations and the MoCA-capable devices to establish the link(s).

*But …* if you want this MoCA segment and the devices networked through it connected to the Internet, exactly one of the MoCA devices needs to be connected via Ethernet to the router’s LAN, to bridge the network traffic between the router/Internet and the MoCA-connected devices. (Effectively the MoCA access point.)

And the TiVo boxes will still require LAN and Internet connectivity, aside from the cable TV signal fed via the coax.

If the BOLT is acting as your main MoCA/Ethernet bridge, you’ll simply need to switch the router to which it is connected via Ethernet — and then reboot all TiVo devices, starting with the BOLT, to ensure that they adjust to the new DHCP-managed IP address space. 

(So, theoretically, the MoCA LAN extended from the router connected to the new ISP will flow over the coax alongside the now unused cable Internet DOCSIS signals.)


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## SprintDrive (11 mo ago)

I currently have a separate cable modem and router that I own. Would I still need the cable modem, if I no longer have internet? Should I then just run the coax directly to the bolt and ethernet from the router to the bolt? I think I would need a small amount of data to download the guide data for the Tivo. Could I tether an old smartphone to the router to provide mobile data?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

> Would I still need the cable modem, if I no longer have (cable) internet?


No.



> Should I then just run the coax directly to the bolt and ethernet from the router to the bolt?


In that room, yes. That should re-establish the MoCA network.



> I think I would need a small amount of data to download the guide data for the Tivo.


TiVo’s hit the Internet for more than just guide data, nowadays; the boxes regularly retrieve info to populate the OnePass listings and the various other metadata objects in the UI.



> Could I tether an old smartphone to the router to provide mobile data?


Possibly.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

The Bolt and Minis need regular connections to TiVo HQ to verify they’re all on the same account, or else the Minis won’t work.

Personally I wouldn’t recommend trying to rely on a not-always-on smartphone for service.

Its 2022, while possible to go without, realistically speaking, TiVos require a stable and fairly constant internet connection for features to function normally.


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## SprintDrive (11 mo ago)

cwoody222 said:


> The Bolt and Minis need regular connections to TiVo HQ to verify they’re all on the same account, or else the Minis won’t work.
> 
> Personally I wouldn’t recommend trying to rely on a not-always-on smartphone for service.
> 
> Its 2022, while possible to go without, realistically speaking, TiVos require a stable and fairly constant internet connection for features to function normally.


Thanks, for letting me know. I didn't realize there were extra internet requirements for newer Tivos. I was just using a hotspot that had a free 200mb per month plan to update guide data on series 2 DVRs a few years ago and only needed about 75mb per month. How much data do you think I would need per month on a Bolt and three MINIS? I was planning on keeping the smartphone always charging and always on. There are some fairly cheap mobile data plans available from MVNOs that are significantly cheaper than paying for broadband.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

SprintDrive said:


> Thanks, for letting me know. I didn't realize there were extra internet requirements for newer Tivos. I was just using a hotspot that had a free 200mb per month plan to update guide data on series 2 DVRs a few years ago and only needed about 75mb per month. How much data do you think I would need per month on a Bolt and three MINIS? I was planning on keeping the smartphone always charging and always on. There are some fairly cheap mobile data plans available from MVNOs that are significantly cheaper than paying for broadband.


You can probably add HSI service from Comcast for as little as $20 per month.


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## SprintDrive (11 mo ago)

chiguy50 said:


> You can probably add HSI service from Comcast for as little as $20 per month.


I've got the XFINITY triple play now, but they raised the price by $30 per month in July. I can get a free cell phone plan from walmart with 100MB of data per month. If 100MB per month is enough for the Tivo I can just tether a smart phone to my router and cancel the internet and voice from xfinity and use the cell phone for calling, texting and data for my tivo and just pay for cable TV.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

SprintDrive said:


> I've got the XFINITY triple play now, but they raised the price by $30 per month in July. I can get a free cell phone plan from walmart with 100MB of data per month. If 100MB per month is enough for the Tivo I can just tether a smart phone to my router and cancel the internet and voice from xfinity and use the cell phone for calling, texting and data for my tivo and just pay for cable TV.


I'd suggest 100MB is too low for multiple Tivos, are you not streaming or using anything else in the house with the internet?


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

SprintDrive said:


> I've got the XFINITY triple play now, but they raised the price by $30 per month in July. I can get a free cell phone plan from walmart with 100MB of data per month. If 100MB per month is enough for the Tivo I can just tether a smart phone to my router and cancel the internet and voice from xfinity and use the cell phone for calling, texting and data for my tivo and just pay for cable TV.


Where are you located (zip code)?

Depending on your service area, you could get Xfinity 300Mbps HSI with gateway and unlimited data included for as little as $30 p.m. (or $20 p.m. w/o the gateway and unlimited data) if you also sign up for Xfinity Mobile cellular service. XM can cost as little $15 p.m. for 1GB of data. You can get this as a stand-alone service or bundled with CATV and/or other services such as VoIP or Home Security. Again, plans and prices vary by region.

And even if you are currently on a term contract for your triple play plan, you can always switch without penalty so long as you maintain at least one Xfinity service active on your account.


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## SprintDrive (11 mo ago)

dianebrat said:


> I'd suggest 100MB is too low for multiple Tivos, are you not streaming or using anything else in the house with the internet?


It's for one Tivo Bolt and three MINI's. Internet is only used for contacting Tivo servers for guide data and other housekeeping for the TIVO's at this residence.


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## SprintDrive (11 mo ago)

chiguy50 said:


> Where are you located (zip code)?
> 
> Depending on your service area, you could get Xfinity 300Mbps HSI with gateway and unlimited data included for as little as $30 p.m. (or $20 p.m. w/o the gateway and unlimited data) if you also sign up for Xfinity Mobile cellular service. XM can cost as little $15 p.m. for 1GB of data. You can get this as a stand-alone service or bundled with CATV and/or other services such as VoIP or Home Security. Again, plans and prices vary by region.
> 
> And even if you are currently on a term contract for your triple play plan, you can always switch without penalty so long as you maintain at least one Xfinity service active on your account.


I have an XFINITY triple play package already. $168 per month. Not sure how much I would save by dropping internet and voice. Already have mobile service with AT&T at a great price, plus got 4 new S22 phones for free, but have to stay with them for three years.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

SprintDrive said:


> It's for one Tivo Bolt and three MINI's. Internet is only used for contacting Tivo servers for guide data and other housekeeping for the TIVO's at this residence.


“Other housekeeping” doesn’t address the continual metadata lookups associated with OnePass, SkipMode and other UI objects like the Discovery Bar. Plus there’s software updates, though that’s more of a concern for those running TE4 (v21.*).


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## SprintDrive (11 mo ago)

krkaufman said:


> “Other housekeeping” doesn’t address the continual metadata lookups associated with OnePass, SkipMode and other UI objects like the Discovery Bar. Plus there’s software updates, though that’s more of a concern for those running TE4 (v21.*).


OK yes, thank you. I meant to include those tasks that you mentioned earlier. I'm on TE3 because that's what I've been using for over 15 years.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

SprintDrive said:


> I have an XFINITY triple play package already. $168 per month. Not sure how much I would save by dropping internet and voice. Already have mobile service with AT&T at a great price, plus got 4 new S22 phones for free, but have to stay with them for three years.


Well, you didn't mention your location, but subscribing to Comcast for just CATV alone--depending on the channel tier (Choice/Popular/Ultimate) and/or add-on premiums--could reduce your bill by $70 or more. 

We would need more information about your location as well as what's included in your current triple play bundle and what add-ons you would want to keep in order to give a more precise estimate of your potential cost savings.


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## SprintDrive (11 mo ago)

chiguy50 said:


> Well, you didn't mention your location, but subscribing to Comcast for just CATV alone--depending on the channel tier (Choice/Popular/Ultimate) and/or add-on premiums--could reduce your bill by $70 or more.
> 
> We would need more information about your location as well as what's included in your current triple play bundle and what add-ons you would want to keep in order to give a more precise estimate of your potential cost savings.


My Xfinity Plan details show:

Up to 300Mbps download speed
125+ Channels
US & Int'l Calling


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

SprintDrive said:


> My Xfinity Plan details show:
> 
> Up to 300Mbps download speed
> 125+ Channels
> US & Int'l Calling


As I have said, we can not give you precise feedback unless you tell us where you are located since Comcast's pricing and service vary from region to region.

However, based on the above plan elements and a recurring monthly cost of $168 net, you should save around $67 if you drop HSI and VoIP, leaving just the "Popular TV" (125+ channel) CATV service. That approx. cost (again, depending on your location) includes the service, BTV and RSN fees, and taxes, along with a $10 discount for auto bill pay and paperless billing. Any equipment rental (e.g., DVR or STB) would be additional.


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## SprintDrive (11 mo ago)

chiguy50 said:


> As I have said, we can not give you precise feedback unless you tell us where you are located since Comcast's pricing and service vary from region to region.
> 
> However, based on the above plan elements and a recurring monthly cost of $168 net, you should save around $67 if you drop HSI and VoIP, leaving just the "Popular TV" (125+ channel) CATV service. That approx. cost (again, depending on your location) includes the service, BTV and RSN fees, and taxes, along with a $10 discount for auto bill pay and paperless billing. Any equipment rental (e.g., DVR or STB) would be additional.


Ok, yes, thank you, don't need an exact figure. It seems like it might be worth it to drop internet and voice. I can get this free mobile plan from walmart. Just have to pay $10 for the sim. 300 minutes, 1000 texts and 100MB per month. More than enough minutes and texts for my needs. The only question is if 100MB of data is enough for a Tivo Bolt and 3 Mini's.



Robot or human?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

SprintDrive said:


> Just have to pay $10 for the sim. 300 minutes, 1000 texts and *1000MB* per month. More than enough minutes and texts for my needs. The only question is if *1000MB* of data is enough for a Tivo Bolt and 3 Mini's.


*100MB* is the limit, per the link. (And your previous post.)


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## SprintDrive (11 mo ago)

krkaufman said:


> *100MB* is the limit, per the link. (And your previous post.)


Sorry, I meant to say 100. Do you think 100MB will be enough?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

SprintDrive said:


> Sorry, I meant to say 100. Do you think 100MB will be enough?


I would be surprised if it were, but I have no actual data to offer.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Related threads: 

Ever wonder how much internet data a TiVo box consumes?
How much bandwidth does Tivo use?


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

SprintDrive said:


> Sorry, I meant to say 100. Do you think 100MB will be enough?


I’ll repeat what I said before, its on the low side.
you’ve also never answered the other question, do you really not use anything else that has an internet connection in the house?


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## SprintDrive (11 mo ago)

dianebrat said:


> I’ll repeat what I said before, its on the low side.
> you’ve also never answered the other question, do you really not use anything else that has an internet connection in the house?


No other mobile data streaming at this residence. I suppose the phone service part of the triple play package might use a small amount of data. Two people live there and one person uses the phone service that comes with xfinity triple play and the other uses a cell phone with no mobile data. Nothing is signed in on any of the apps on the Tivo. They just watch what they record from cable TV. The previous setup a few years ago was two series2 Tivos on dish network for several years and I was using a free hotspot plan with 500mb per month and I think they were averaging 60mb per month use with guide data. I saw another plan from Tello that offers 500mb per month for $5 per month with unlimited 2G data if that runs out.









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Build your own plan with minutes, texts and data starting at only $5/month. No contract, no hidden fees! You can also buy a new phone from Tello or bring your own mobile. It's all up to you.




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## SprintDrive (11 mo ago)

krkaufman said:


> Related threads:
> 
> Ever wonder how much internet data a TiVo box consumes?
> How much bandwidth does Tivo use?


Thanks for the links. One guy said he was using 600MB per month for a Bolt after using Freedompop for an S3, so it's looks like I'll need a 1GB plan.


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## earmand (Mar 16, 2019)

Couple other suggestions
1) Talk to Xfinitity and see if there is way to reduce their costs... Explain that you dont need the phone and only need minimal internet and see if than make something work. Most carriers have senior discounts and need based discounts if either apply.
2) If you have other cable providers, check out their teaser rates.... and then ask Xfinitiy of they will match... and if not swithover
3) Mint mobile has great cellular rates and their plans allow free teathering (Note: mint mobile runs over the TMobile network which provides good service). If you prepay a year you can get 4GB for $15/Month. The nice thing with Mint mobile is they dont charge you extra if you go over your plan allocation. They just reduce the data rate. The reduced rate may not be an issue with Tivo; even if you run out of data, the guide updates should download eventually. Just note if you go with a cellular solution, you are going to have to buy a router that supports a cellular sim card... You will probably have to pay $100+ for a cellular router. As mentioned in another post, there are routers that allow you to control what is accessed through the router which would allow you to limit the internet to the Tivo service.


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## SprintDrive (11 mo ago)

earmand said:


> Couple other suggestions
> 1) Talk to Xfinitity and see if there is way to reduce their costs... Explain that you dont need the phone and only need minimal internet and see if than make something work. Most carriers have senior discounts and need based discounts if either apply.
> 2) If you have other cable providers, check out their teaser rates.... and then ask Xfinitiy of they will match... and if not swithover
> 3) Mint mobile has great cellular rates and their plans allow free teathering (Note: mint mobile runs over the TMobile network which provides good service). If you prepay a year you can get 4GB for $15/Month. The nice thing with Mint mobile is they dont charge you extra if you go over your plan allocation. They just reduce the data rate. The reduced rate may not be an issue with Tivo; even if you run out of data, the guide updates should download eventually. Just note if you go with a cellular solution, you are going to have to buy a router that supports a cellular sim card... You will probably have to pay $100+ for a cellular router. As mentioned in another post, there are routers that allow you to control what is accessed through the router which would allow you to limit the internet to the Tivo service.


I performed a test at my residence. I have two cables, One cable is male USB C -> female USB A and a second cable that is male USB A -> female ethernet. I plug the male USB C into my phone, the male USB A into the Female USB A and then plug one end of an ethernet cord into the female ethernet cable on my phone and the other end into the ethernet port on my router. Then I go into settings/connections/mobile hotspot and connections and enable ethernet tethering and my phone will supply internet to the router and all of the devices work. I was able to connect to the tivo servers on my bolt and download guide data with the data supplied by my phone through the router. I think I have established a proof of concept.

I have some old phones and I would like to leave one connected to the router at another residence all the time to supply guide data and keep the Tivo's active I think I just need to find a cheap cellular plan to use in one of my old phones and see if I can tether in the same manner to a router and supply data and verify that I can connect to the Tivo server and download the guide data. I think the only catch is that this configuration does not keep the phone charged, but I think I can buy a hub and maybe a new cable to achieve Ethernet Tethering and charging simultaneously.

I'm familiar with mint mobile, but they seem to want you to pay for multiple months in advance to get the best pricing. I can get 5GB per month from tello paying monthly. I'm using Tello for two other elderly relatives and they have flip phones with zero data and unlimited talk and text for $10 per month each after taxes and fees. I could get another plan from Tello with 500mb of data and unlimited 2g data after the 500mb runs out for $5 per month. And tello allows you to adjust the plan on line and it takes effect the next day. So I could get the cheapest service and adjust on the fly if needed.

Another configuration I thought of is to set up my router as a wireless bridge and connect to a hot spot. I have a free hotspot from tmobile that a got a couple years ago, so i could put a tello sim in that hotspot and keep it charging without further research. Then I could connect the router to the hotspot and then plug the bolt into the router, but then I don't have phone service.

I think verizon will provide cable tv to this residence, but not sure about getting a cable card from them.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

SprintDrive said:


> I think verizon will provide cable tv to this residence, but not sure about getting a cable card from them.


Why not? Verizon has been one of the most reliable and easy going providers to get a CableCARD from over the years, and unlike several of the cable providers they are not making threatening noises about no longer providing them.
(as I look downstairs at my 4 Verizon FiOS CableCARDs I got about 3-4 years ago with no issue and have to re-pair about 1 per year without having any problems)


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## SprintDrive (11 mo ago)

dianebrat said:


> Why not? Verizon has been one of the most reliable and easy going providers to get a CableCARD from over the years, and unlike several of the cable providers they are not making threatening noises about no longer providing them.
> (as I look downstairs at my 4 Verizon FiOS CableCARDs I got about 3-4 years ago with no issue and have to re-pair about 1 per year without having any problems)


Thanks for the advice. I should call verizon. Has verizon moved any channels so they can't be received by the Tivo with a cable card?


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

SprintDrive said:


> Thanks for the advice. I should call verizon. Has verizon moved any channels so they can't be received by the Tivo with a cable card?


Thanks to the nature of FiOS there are no bandwidth considerations, so no SDV, thus no TUning adapters, and they have very little interesting in making any changes, so no plan to go near IPTV, and they only encrypt the premium channels and like 5 Fox properties, everything else is fully copyable to another device.


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## SprintDrive (11 mo ago)

dianebrat said:


> Thanks to the nature of FiOS there are no bandwidth considerations, so no SDV, thus no TUning adapters, and they have very little interesting in making any changes, so no plan to go near IPTV, and they only encrypt the premium channels and like 5 Fox properties, everything else is fully copyable to another device.


I just signed up for verizon service. They will install next Friday. I selected the most fios tv package for $120 per month. Thanks again for your advice. Really appreciate it.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

SprintDrive said:


> I just signed up for verizon service. They will install next Friday. I selected the most fios tv package for $120 per month. Thanks again for your advice. Really appreciate it.


Looks like another price increase! They just raised the prices in March by $9. It was $96 for the Most plan (plus the cableCARD fee of $5), then it went to $105 + the cableCARD. Then the cableCARD fee went up to $10 for new customers. Now it's $110 plus the cableCARD fee.


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## SprintDrive (11 mo ago)

pl1 said:


> Looks like another price increase! They just raised the prices in March by $9. It was $96 for the Most plan (plus the cableCARD fee of $5), then it went to $105 + the cableCARD. Then the cableCARD fee went up to $10 for new customers. Now it's $110 plus the cableCARD fee.


Xfinity raised my triple play bill from $135 - $165 but I didn't have the top tier tv package and some channels were not available on Tivo. I'm looking at tethering an old smart phone to my router for internet and pairing a home phone over bluetooth for phone service. I already have 4 lines on AT&T and I can add another line for $22.50 per month with 3GB of hotspot data and adding this line reduces the charge on my other 4 lines by $15. If I port in an eligible number, then I get a $250 bill credit, so I'm going to try and port in the Xfinity voice line. I'll still be paying less than Xfinity with many more channels. I'll have less internet data, but I only use internet for the Tivo to download guide data and other activity with the Tivo service at this residence.


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## SprintDrive (11 mo ago)

Thank you to everyone for the excellent advice. I'm up and running on Verizon with a cable card. I have their single play package with most TV service no internet and no voice. They gave me one Fios set top box at no additional charge and they had to install a Fios router to be able to upload the guide data to the set top box. For internet and voice, I'm using a Samsung galaxy s20 hooked up to a usb hub and then that is then connected to the ethernet port on my router and then I set up ethernet tethering on the S20. The TiVo Bolt is plugged into the router and I have 6 rooms wired for coax with a moca filter installed at the splitter in the crawl space. I currently have 3 tivo minis connected in different rooms to coax. I paid for a $10 per month cell phone plan from freedom pop that gives me unlimited everything with 1.5GB of high speed data. I think that will be enough data for communicating with TiVo for one month. I have a Panasonic cordless phone with Bluetooth paired to the Samsung smart phone so I'm able to make calls from a regular cordless phone. Was able to verify that the bolt and all minis have an internet connection and can download from TiVo. This package seems far superior to what I had with xfinity, because I have the top level of tv service with Verizon and much cheaper internet and voice from freedom pop using a smartphone and a USB hub. I don't plan on using internet for anything other than the Bolt and the minis to communicate with the Tivo servers. Will be interesting to see how much data I really need to keep this up and running. I could downgrade to a free 100mb plan, but I don't think that will be enough data.


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## SprintDrive (11 mo ago)

I'm using ~100MB per day with a Bolt Vox and 3 minis. so the 1.5GB data plan will run out of data in ~15 days. The plan states that it has unlimited everything with 1.5GB of high speed data. Not sure if I can use the slow data via usb to ethernet tethering.


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