# Roamio Wifi--What is the Truth?



## Latitude94941 (Dec 15, 2013)

Have searched the threads and contacted Tivo technical support, but have only gotten conflicting answers to my question:

I just purchased a Roamio Plus. It is installed next to sensitive audio equipment, so I want to make sure the Roamio's wifi is not active. When setting up the Roamio, I never connected via wifi--only by Ethernet.

Can anyone tell me whether the Roamio's wifi will be off in this scenario? Or, as some have reported, is it always active, even if it is connected by Ethernet?

Thanks...


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Latitude94941 said:


> Have searched the threads and contacted Tivo technical support, but have only gotten conflicting answers to my question:
> 
> I just purchased a Roamio Plus. It is installed next to sensitive audio equipment, so I want to make sure the Roamio's wifi is not active. When setting up the Roamio, I never connected via wifi--only by Ethernet.
> 
> ...


It would be as active as any Computer with built in WiFi that you never set up, some computers have an on/off switch for the WiFi so I will assume that some signal as a receiver would be working, but I don't think you would have any transmissions that would be a problem for your sensitive audio equipment, I am sure all TiVos (without built in WiFi ) have some RF transmission, but at FCC approved levels.


----------



## Latitude94941 (Dec 15, 2013)

Thanks, Les,

I realize that the Roamio will emit RF no matter what, but I'm specifically referring to wifi transmissions. I do have a computer in this same installation, but the wifi is set to off.

Trying to get definitive answer--some have said if wifi never set up on Roamio then it will not be active. Others have suggested entering a bad wifi password to disable wifi--but would this really be a solution?


----------



## sleepdragon (May 22, 2010)

open up the roamio and manually remove the wifi board

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=507711

wifi board is the one on the upper left hand corner


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

sleepdragon said:


> open up the roamio and manually disconnect the wifi


Have you tried that ? as I would like to do that but I was concerned that the software would notice and give out an error.


----------



## Time_Lord (Jun 4, 2012)

what type of audio equipment is so sensitive in a home environment that can't deal with commonly found RF transmissions found in a home?

Or are you one of those Audiophiles that chases the unobtainable theoretical performance by buying all kinds of crazy cables and connectors thinking that somehow a $100 digital cable will sound better than a $5 digital cable? (Hint if its digital, and the cable works reliably there is no difference, to your ears or to fancy scopes).

-TL


----------



## ltxi (Feb 14, 2010)

It was a good question. No one needs more unnecessary/extraneous 2.4 Ghz radiation running around in one's house.


----------



## Latitude94941 (Dec 15, 2013)

sleepdragon said:


> open up the roamio and manually remove the wifi board
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=507711
> 
> wifi board is the one on the upper left hand corner


I'd also be interested in giving this a try. Would just desoldering/disconnecting the wires at the top of the board do it? Is there another method to disconnect the board without physically removing it?


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

ltxi said:


> It was a good question. No one needs more unnecessary/extraneous 2.4 Ghz radiation running around in one's house.


One extra device shouldn't make any difference. I have dozens of active WiFi devices without any issues. Although half of mine do use 5Ghz.


----------



## ltxi (Feb 14, 2010)

aaronwt said:


> One extra device shouldn't make any difference. I have dozens of active WiFi devices without any issues. Although half of mine do use 5Ghz.


No one needs more unnecessary/extraneous 2.4 Ghz radiation running around in one's house.


----------



## Latitude94941 (Dec 15, 2013)

Thanks for all the responses, but to stay on topic, let's please not debate general wifi and RFI issues in this thread, or what does or does not make an audible difference in a recording/playback signal chain. Discussions for another place and time.

For now, let's just stipulate that someone wants to either:

A) Determine that the Roamio's wifi adapter is not broadcasting when connected via Ethernet (and having never been connected via wifi).

Or

B) Somehow shut off or disconnect the wifi adapter if it is indeed broadcasting.

How would someone accomplish the above?


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Latitude94941 said:


> Thanks for all the responses, but to stay on topic, let's please not debate general wifi and RFI issues in this thread, or what does or does not make an audible difference in a recording/playback signal chain. Discussions for another place and time.
> 
> For now, let's just stipulate that someone wants to either:
> 
> ...


 Someone already mentioned it. You need to physically disconnect the WiFi board. That is the only way to be 100% sure you have no extraneous signals. Although I think that is an extreme measure considering all the wifi devices out there.


----------



## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

You can always cut the wires. If you decide you want wifi again, wire nut the wires back together. I'm only half kidding. If you're worried about warranty issues, I got nuthin'.


----------



## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

Instead of cutting anything, just disconnect the antenna wires. The two little gold colored tabs at the top of that board should pop right off and snap back on at a later date if you need them. They're just like the antenna wires on a laptop.

If you never set wifi up in the first place I don't think it would ever transmit anything. Giving it the wrong SSID or password would be my last choice, as it would keep trying to connect.


----------



## duncan7 (Sep 17, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> You need to physically disconnect the WiFi board. That is the only way to be 100% sure you have no extraneous signals.


I thought nuking it from orbit was only way to be sure.


----------



## Time_Lord (Jun 4, 2012)

disconnecting the antennas on the wifi board in the TiVo doesn't stop the TiVo from transmitting, it just severely reduces the effective range.

I'd be more worried about the big antenna sticking out the back of the audio equipment... you know the unshielded 2 or 3 conductor wire called the power cord!

Snake oil salesmen aren't out of business yet!


----------



## Time_Lord (Jun 4, 2012)

I think I found the answer to your electromagnetic issues...

http://www.lessloss.com/blackbody-p-200.html

The cost starts at just over $1323, but with your super sensitive audio equipment this should fit in and solve the issue.


----------



## Latitude94941 (Dec 15, 2013)

Time_Lord said:


> disconnecting the antennas on the wifi board in the TiVo doesn't stop the TiVo from transmitting, it just severely reduces the effective range.
> 
> I'd be more worried about the big antenna sticking out the back of the audio equipment... you know the unshielded 2 or 3 conductor wire called the power cord!


I suspect you're right that disconnecting the wires will only cut the range, not the signal.

By the way, for the reasons you mentioned, I do use shielded AC cables in my recording set up.


----------



## moon_tower (Feb 2, 2008)

Put your Tivo in a homemade Faraday cage. You'll have to put your remote on IR though.


----------



## Latitude94941 (Dec 15, 2013)

ggieseke said:


> If you never set wifi up in the first place I don't think it would ever transmit anything.


Thanks. I have now heard the same thing from several sources, but does anyone know how I can confirm this? If this is indeed the case, would sure hate to be disconnecting wifi board or some of the other scenarios that we've been kicking around here (although the earlier suggestion to nuke it from space does seem rather exciting).


----------



## sleepdragon (May 22, 2010)

FYI, TiVo T6 (MOS version of the Roamio Plus) does not come with WiFi board and they run on the same version of software as far as I know...


----------



## ferrumpneuma (Jun 1, 2006)

moon_tower said:


> Put your Tivo in a homemade Faraday cage...


Imagine how chocolaty the mid-range would be! 2.4 Ghz radiation totally screwed with the danceability of my audio system.:down::down::down:


----------



## DigitalDawn (Apr 26, 2009)

The following will get rid of all RF interference:

Trace a line around your TiVo with this:


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

DigitalDawn said:


> The following will get rid of all RF interference:
> 
> Trace a line around your TiVo with this:


Funny


----------



## Time_Lord (Jun 4, 2012)

DigitalDawn said:


> The following will get rid of all RF interference:
> 
> Trace a line around your TiVo with this:


Wait do you think it'll work? I know it can't be cheap if it's aimed at audiophiles. You think I can purchase it for $1,000??? If I get two would it work even better?

This reminds me of an article posted by some audiophile I read a year or two back, he claimed that the output from his music that he stored on a harddisk was drastically improved when he replaced the SATA cable with some uber expensive one.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Time_Lord said:


> Wait do you think it'll work? I know it can't be cheap if it's aimed at audiophiles. You think I can purchase it for $1,000??? If I get two would it work even better?
> 
> This reminds me of an article posted by some audiophile I read a year or two back, he claimed that the output from his music that he stored on a harddisk was drastically improved when he replaced the SATA cable with some uber expensive one.


If you replaced a $5 cable with a $200 cable your music would sound better, or you would go crazy, better to have your music sound better. I know somebody that has one of these expensive audio systems and when they go away more than a few days they remove the speaker cables to bring to a special audio store that re-energize speaker cables. True audiophiles are different than most people.


----------



## Time_Lord (Jun 4, 2012)

lessd said:


> ... and when they go away more than a few days they remove the speaker cables to bring to a special audio store that re-energize speaker cables. True audiophiles are different than most people.


PT Barnum was right, there's a sucker born every minute


----------



## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

Latitude94941 said:


> Thanks. I have now heard the same thing from several sources, but does anyone know how I can confirm this? If this is indeed the case, would sure hate to be disconnecting wifi board or some of the other scenarios that we've been kicking around here (although the earlier suggestion to nuke it from space does seem rather exciting).


A laptop running Wireshark is the only thing I can think of that would prove it one way or the other. Run a several hour capture and filter the results based on the MAC address of the WiFi card in the TiVo (it's printed on the card).

Edit: Nuking it from space sounds fun, but the EM pulse would surely destroy your audio system anyway if it's that sensive.


----------



## leiff (Aug 24, 2005)

Im looking in the inside of my Romeo basic right now. I operate permanently with lid off because it runs cooler and quiter this way. I see the Wireless lan module attached with a screw and it appears it would snap right off. I'd like to do this since I don't use the WiFi and I'm paranoid about WiFi signals. can I get confirmation this snaps of as easily as it looks without damage?


----------



## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

ggieseke said:


> ...Edit: Nuking it from space sounds fun, but the EM pulse would surely destroy your audio system anyway if it's that sensive.


Wrapping the audio equipment in a tin foil hat would work


----------



## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

leiff said:


> Im looking in the inside of my Romeo basic right now. I operate permanently with lid off because it runs cooler and quiter this way. I see the Wireless lan module attached with a screw and it appears it would snap right off. I'd like to do this since I don't use the WiFi and I'm paranoid about WiFi signals. can I get confirmation this snaps of as easily as it looks without damage?


Are you paranoid about Wi-Fi cancer, or is it something else?


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Extraneous RF signals are everywhere. Even without man made devices.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

This thread should get on the John Stewart TV show


----------



## ltxi (Feb 14, 2010)

Fun for all and all for fun.....but I tell you this. My new Asus router introduces above white noise crap into my adjacent computer's flat panel sound bar unless the antennas and/or display are positioned just right.

No one needs more unnecessary/extraneous 2.4 Ghz radiation running around in one's house.


----------



## leiff (Aug 24, 2005)

in all honesty I get headaches from WiFi signals believe me or not, tis the truth, so yes id like to take module out of my Romeo basic.


----------



## dahacker (Jan 14, 2004)

leiff said:


> in all honesty I get headaches from WiFi signals believe me or not, tis the truth, so yes id like to take module out of my Romeo basic.


Sorry to hear that. If I had EM sensitivity, I would definitely already have a spectrum analyzer and would certainly know full well if the Roamio WiFi transmitter were on or not before having to clip it.

Also, if you have EM sensitivity, I don't think taking the cover off the Roamio is helping you any.


----------



## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

lessd said:


> ....... True audiophiles are different than most people.


There's probably a government grant to some university to study these brain differences. Well worth the additional charge to our Chinese credit card.


----------



## DigitalDawn (Apr 26, 2009)

1"s and 0's are 1's and 0's.

Since it's analog, one could make a case for higher-end speaker wire. Not sure the rate of return for $1000 per foot vs. $5.00 per foot makes sense. However, I would be open to a blind A/B test to confirm.


----------



## leiff (Aug 24, 2005)

the green board raised from the main board is the WiFi module. you can see it is attached by one screw and 1 black piece of plastic in the far corner. im hoping the black piece can be easily detached after screw is removed and the moduale can be safely removed and reattached later if I want to


----------



## tim1724 (Jul 3, 2007)

ltxi said:


> Fun for all and all for fun.....but I tell you this. My new Asus router introduces above white noise crap into my adjacent computer's flat panel sound bar unless the antennas and/or display are positioned just right.
> 
> No one needs more unnecessary/extraneous 2.4 Ghz radiation running around in one's house.


It can't be the 2.4 GHz signal. That would be far, far, far too high-pitched to hear.

More likely it's a faulty power supply in the router. That will put out RF in a range that you could hear when it's picked up by other equipment. Lots of power supplies put out all sorts of noise. Even though switched-mode power supplies should normally switch on and off at a frequency too high to hear (50 kHz or more) you can still often get harmonics off them in an audible range. (And sometimes they feed it back into the mains supply, affecting anything on the same circuit, even if the RF is shielded properly.)


----------



## ltxi (Feb 14, 2010)

tim1724 said:


> It can't be the 2.4 GHz signal. That would be far, far, far too high-pitched to hear.
> 
> More likely it's a faulty power supply in the router. That will put out RF in a range that you could hear when it's picked up by other equipment. Lots of power supplies put out all sorts of noise. Even though switched-mode power supplies should normally switch on and off at a frequency too high to hear (50 kHz or more) you can still often get harmonics off them in an audible range. (And sometimes they feed it back into the mains supply, affecting anything on the same circuit, even if the RF is shielded properly.)


I didn't say, nor even suggest, it was audio frequency interference now did I? :down:


----------



## Davelnlr_ (Jan 13, 2011)

Time_Lord said:


> Or are you one of those Audiophiles that chases the unobtainable theoretical performance by buying all kinds of crazy cables and connectors


Off topic, but that reminds me of a friend who spent $100 for a special shielded A/C power cord made with 10ga wire for his 25 watt tube amp, to make sure he got ALL the power to his amplifier. It never crossed his mind that the other 75' of wire from the outlet to the breaker box was 14ga unshielded romex running through the walls


----------



## ferrumpneuma (Jun 1, 2006)

ltxi said:


> Fun for all and all for fun.....but I tell you this. My new Asus router introduces above white noise crap into my adjacent computer's flat panel sound bar unless the antennas and/or display are positioned just right.
> 
> No one needs more unnecessary/extraneous 2.4 Ghz radiation running around in one's house.





ltxi said:


> I didn't say, nor even suggest, it was audio interference now did I? :down:


You didn't?


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Davelnlr_ said:


> Off topic, but that reminds me of a friend who spent $100 for a special shielded A/C power cord made with 10ga wire for his 25 watt tube amp, to make sure he got ALL the power to his amplifier. It never crossed his mind that the other 75' of wire from the outlet to the breaker box was 14ga unshielded romex running through the walls


In the old VCR days the tapes had some dumb ratings, like how many drop outs per hour, you could pay more for a tape that had 5 per hour than one that had 20 per hour, one could never see the difference with the low resolution you got with any normal tape. Today we have the power conditioner that costs $1500 or more and does not even have a UPS, my friend that has one has to keep resetting the trip for different outlets, his wife goes nuts when he is not home and part od the system does not work. But in their defense power conditioner do look cool.


----------



## Latitude94941 (Dec 15, 2013)

ggieseke said:


> A laptop running Wireshark is the only thing I can think of that would prove it one way or the other. Run a several hour capture and filter the results based on the MAC address of the WiFi card in the TiVo (it's printed on the card).


Thanks, this is helpful.


----------



## Latitude94941 (Dec 15, 2013)

leiff said:


> the green board raised from the main board is the WiFi module. you can see it is attached by one screw and 1 black piece of plastic in the far corner. im hoping the black piece can be easily detached after screw is removed and the moduale can be safely removed and reattached later if I want to


Thanks, Leiff. If you proceed with this, please let us know how it went. Also, did disconnecting the board end up tripping any of the Roamio's self diagnostics?


----------



## Time_Lord (Jun 4, 2012)

lessd said:


> ... But in their defense power conditioner do look cool.


Cool costs money, I think on the really high end stuff you are paying more for aesthetics than anything else.

Back in my youth (damn I'm getting old) I bought a separate AMP and Pre-AMP, I went out and purchased a Hafler amp and pre-amp, talk about lack of aesthetics, the only light on the amp was on the power switch, the same was pretty much true on the pre-amp.

Other than taking up more space did it sound any better than a decent all in one receiver? I don't know but I liked it.


----------



## ltxi (Feb 14, 2010)

ferrumpneuma said:


> You didn't?


audio _frequency_...I amended my post


----------



## leiff (Aug 24, 2005)

Latitude94941 said:


> Thanks, Leiff. If you proceed with this, please let us know how it went. Also, did disconnecting the board end up tripping any of the Roamio's self diagnostics?


Board snapped out easily after removing screw. didnt trigger anything. the only way I knew how to test the wifi was repeat guided set up. when I tried doing this and selecting wifi - Romeo locked up. I Then put the board back in, rebooted and selected wifi from guided setup and confirmed wifi was working again as it could see my network so i then removed board again. Ill be keeping wifi board out of my roamio basic for the foreseeable future.


----------



## Latitude94941 (Dec 15, 2013)

leiff said:


> Board snapped out easily after removing screw. didnt trigger anything. the only way I knew how to test the wifi was repeat guided set up. when I tried doing this and selecting wifi - Romeo locked up. I Then put the board back in, rebooted and selected wifi from guided setup and confirmed wifi was working again as it could see my network so i then removed board again. Ill be keeping wifi board out of my roamio basic for the foreseeable future.


Thanks for giving this a try and reporting back. I'll be following in your footsteps as soon as I have the chance.


----------



## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

While I'm not "worried" about it, I also have an interest in the matter, and appreciate those willing to see what happens, or doesn't happen.

I am thankful for not having to be the one to try it, just to see what happens, all of the time, for every matter.


----------



## Latitude94941 (Dec 15, 2013)

For those that have been following along, I wanted to post this information which I received yesterday from Tivo Customer Support:

Thank you for contacting TiVo Customer Support. This is a response to the question you posed to us on reference number XXX. We apologies for the late response. Thanks to testing we have attempted on the TiVo unit we have confirmed that while the TiVo is using an Ethernet connection, the Internal Wireless device is disabled and sends no signal. During the Wireless connection, only communications with the router itself transpire, in any other mode it merely receives, not transmits. We hope that this has answered your questions, if you have any additional questions please feel free to contact our support:


----------



## Time_Lord (Jun 4, 2012)

Latitude94941 said:


> For those that have been following along, I wanted to post this information which I received yesterday from Tivo Customer Support:
> 
> Thank you for contacting TiVo Customer Support. This is a response to the question you posed to us on reference number XXX. We apologies for the late response. Thanks to testing we have attempted on the TiVo unit we have confirmed that while the TiVo is using an Ethernet connection, the Internal Wireless device is disabled and sends no signal. During the Wireless connection, only communications with the router itself transpire, in any other mode it merely receives, not transmits. We hope that this has answered your questions, if you have any additional questions please feel free to contact our support:


of course I found out that this is not true... someplace I posted my issue with wireless, but in a nutshell I did the following:

1) initially setup the TiVo on WiFi
2) after the setup was done I moved to ethernet
3) found that the Roamio was bouncing back and forth between wired and wireless connections
4) disconnected the ethernet
5) gained control of the WiFi controls and programmed a bogus A/P name/password
6) reconnected the ethernet and lived happily ever after (as far as TiVo networking is concerned)

and this behavior was confirmed by somebody at TiVo

-TL


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Time_Lord said:


> of course I found out that this is not true... someplace I posted my issue with wireless, but in a nutshell I did the following:
> 
> 1) initially setup the TiVo on WiFi
> 2) after the setup was done I moved to ethernet
> ...


I think some people have removed the Wi-Fi board in the Roamio itself without causing any problems, I am still not comfortable doing that as some future TiVo update software may look for that hardware and crash if it is not found.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I can run my Romaio BAsic between a wired and wireless connection and it seems to work without issue. When an Ethernet cable is connected, in the network diagnostics area, it shows that it is using the Ethernet connection. if I unplug the cable, it then shows it's using wireless. I plug it back in, and it switched back to the wired connection. But the majoirty of the time I use wireless since I can get the same speeds as the wired connection so it's one less cable to worry about. Especially since the box gets shuttled back and forth to my GFs house.

I remember people mentioning an issue with this, back in the Summer when i got my Roamio Pro. So for that box I never did set it up for wireless. But I got my Roamio Basic in November and have not seen those issues with the wireless and wired connections.


----------



## kherr (Aug 1, 2006)

duncan7 said:


> I thought nuking it from orbit was only way to be sure.


Your just a grunt and can't make such a decision ..... :up:


----------



## PLargent (Nov 13, 2013)

> Your just a grunt and can't make such a decision .....


I believe this is a military operation ... and the corporal is in charge. :up:


----------

