# Game of Thrones "The House of Black and White" S05E02 4/19/15



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Interesting episode...it picked up speed a little over last week.

The Wall - I knew there was no way Jon was going to take the Stark name, since that would make him Lord of Winterfell, and I've assumed that role is being saved for Bran (even though he's still young). But did we actually know that Jon was up for the position of Lord Commander? I had assumed the position was going to go to him somehow, but I never heard any mention of him being a candidate, and until they vote, they almost made it seem like he wasn't even a candidate. I was getting ready for Sam to make a last minute nomination for Jon, but since they already had all the voting chips and everything setup, clearly he was already in the running.

Kings Landing - Interesting that Cersei doesn't even have Lannister support (who was that who snubbed her?). It's all falling apart on her really quickly. I wonder what Qyburn is planning on doing with that dwarf head. I'm also wondering if we're going to see what ever became of the Mountain after his experiments (and is the dwarf head related to this).


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

LordKronos said:


> I was getting ready for Sam to make a last minute nomination for Jon, but since they already had all the voting chips and everything setup, clearly he was already in the running.


No, they only had chips for the two candidates. Apparently, they added a third set after Sam's speech.


LordKronos said:


> (who was that who snubbed her?)


That was her uncle, Tywin's brother, her ex-boy-toy (current a monk)'s father.


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Although I liked this episode, it felt more like a first episode. And the first could have easily been the second.

Was surprised that Stannis did not punish Jon for mercifully killing Mance. Instead he rewards him!


----------



## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

More dragons, please.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

gossamer88 said:


> Was surprised that Stannis did not punish Jon for mercifully killing Mance. Instead he rewards him!


Well, he was using the threat of punishment as a bribe to take him up on his offer to be his puppet at Winterfell (although that was an un-Stannis-like move; usually, he puts principle ahead of everything). But the brothers forestalled any either-or Stannis could have executed by electing him Commander.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> No, they only had chips for the two candidates. Apparently, they added a third set after Sam's speech.


Maybe it was just the editing-for-dramatic-effect, but it seemed like he was already in the running. Everyone had all the chip, they were recapping the rules by explaining who each chip was for, Sam interrupted, and as soon as sam finished, they got to the vote...so it was like (even though they didn't get to Jon in the voting rules) everyone already knew how to vote for Jon. I'll have to rewatch and see if there were originally 2 or 3 voting posts on the table before sam spoke.



> That was her uncle, Tywin's brother, her ex-boy-toy (current a monk)'s father.


 Oh, Lancel's dad. I didn't recognize he was the same guy as last week.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

gossamer88 said:


> Although I liked this episode, it felt more like a first episode. And the first could have easily been the second.


I felt the opposite. Last week was just setting up so many different things, setting all the stages, but very little actually happened. This week we only covered a few of the stories, but got more depth in them.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

LordKronos said:


> Maybe it was just the editing-for-dramatic-effect, but it seemed like he was already in the running. Everyone had all the chip, they were recapping the rules by explaining who each chip was for, Sam interrupted, and as soon as sam finished, they got to the vote...so it was like (even though they didn't get to Jon in the voting rules) everyone already knew how to vote for Jon. I'll have to rewatch and see if there were originally 2 or 3 voting posts on the table before sam spoke.


I didn't get the impression Sam was interrupting the explanation...I thought he was interrupting before the voting could begin, in order to nominate Jon. Until Sam spoke, there was no hint that anybody was considering Jon...all the "speeches" before then were about the other two candidates.


----------



## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

Loved Sam's description, "...sitting in a puddle of his own making."


----------



## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

LordKronos said:


> The Wall - I knew there was no way Jon was going to take the Stark name, since that would make him Lord of Winterfell, and I've assumed that role is being saved for Bran (even though he's still young).


Don't most people believe that Bran and Rickon were killed by Theon Greyjoy? Sansa and Arya are just considered "missing" at this point though and Winterfell would go to their husbands or sons if and when they turn up again.



LordKronos said:


> I wonder what Qyburn is planning on doing with that dwarf head. I'm also wondering if we're going to see what ever became of the Mountain after his experiments (and is the dwarf head related to this).


The guy is like Dr. Frankenstein, so whatever he's up to has got to be creepy.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I didn't get the impression Sam was interrupting the explanation...I thought he was interrupting before the voting could begin, in order to nominate Jon. Until Sam spoke, there was no hint that anybody was considering Jon...all the "speeches" before then were about the other two candidates.


I'll have to rewatch. The candidates were already known, and that was just a chance for anyone to make some last minute campaigning for the candidates. When they were done, they said how to cast your vote and started to state who each chip was for, and I thought Sam interrupted in the middle of the second candidate's "the round chip is for so and so" explanation. But I guess re-watching will be key.

But I suppose the important thing is, you seem to agree that, up to this point, we had no real indication that Jon was actually a candidate. So I was right all along, but just got the mistaken impression from this episode that I had missed something earlier.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

sbourgeo said:


> Don't most people believe that Bran and Rickon were killed by Theon Greyjoy? Sansa and Arya are just considered "missing" at this point though and Winterfell would go to their husbands or sons if and when they turn up again.


If Jon were made a real Stark, then he would be second in line after Rob, but before Bran, Rickon, and the girls. When I said "that role was being saved for Bran", I didn't mean by the people in westeros...I meant the author. I feel like Bran's story is to come back and take that role as King in the North and then do something really big related to whatever he's learning right now. If Jon were to be made a Stark, then Bran would never be eligible for that position as long as Jon were alive.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Didn't Ja Hadar(sp?) go to the wrong, old face? As I remember, when he left Arya he had changed to a different guy. (OK. I suppose he can choose any face he wants.)

If he's some sort of high falutin unique king /wizard / god of Braavos, why was he bumming around Westeros to be picked up as a criminal and imprisoned to be sent to the wall?


----------



## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

MikeAndrews said:


> Didn't Ja Hadar(sp?) go to the wrong, old face? As I remember, when he left Arya he had changed to a different guy. (OK. I suppose he can choose any face he wants.)
> 
> If he's some sort of high falutin unique king /wizard / god of Braavos, why was he bumming around Westeros to be picked up as a criminal and imprisoned to be sent to the wall?


Ja'quen Hagar is a "faceless man". They are the assassins of Westeros.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

MikeAndrews said:


> Didn't Ja Hadar(sp?) go to the wrong, old face? As I remember, when he left Arya he had changed to a different guy. (OK. I suppose he can choose any face he wants.)


I suppose the face he wears at a given time depends on actor availability. 


MikeAndrews said:


> If he's some sort of high falutin unique king /wizard / god of Braavos, why was he bumming around Westeros to be picked up as a criminal and imprisoned to be sent to the wall?


He was there to recruit Arya? OK, it's a reach, but stranger things have happened on this show...maybe it's her destiny.


----------



## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

Did the actor who plays uncle Kevan change? I remember him being blond and heavier set


----------



## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

It wasn't jaqeun...just the same face as the one he wore when aria met him originally


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

An interview with Tom Wlaschiha who plays Jaqen:
http://www.vulture.com/2015/04/game...ium=referral&utm_campaign=pubexchange_article

He rightly says that Arya could have ended the series by naming the top three to be killed.

Again from me: If there are other "faceless men" why does Arya's answer the door? Why do the men of Braavos know to send her there?

----

Another guess on my part: The Titan statue stops being a statue and turns into a vengeful monster when Braavos is threatened.

Oh. Daenerys' dragon (named "Dragon?") has a strong resemblance to the dog-faced Luck Dragon in The Never Ending Story.


----------



## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

Just FYI to everyone, the link is a bit spoilery

The dragon's name is drogon... a nod to khal drogo


----------



## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

Every time I watch the intro now all I hear in my head is "Peter Dinklage, Peter Dinklage, Peter Dinklage, Peter Dinklage, Peter Dinklage, Peter Dinklage, Peter Dinklage, Peter Dinklage, Peter Dinklage, Peter Dinklage, Peter Dinklage, Peter Dinklage"


----------



## tlc (May 30, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> No, they only had chips for the two candidates. Apparently, they added a third set after Sam's speech.
> 
> That was her uncle, Tywin's brother, her ex-boy-toy (current a monk)'s father.


So, the monk is the skinny blond cousin that Tyrion blackmailed? Or was there another cousin boinking Cersei? The former seemed really ineffectual. But it seems like the monk may not be.



Rob Helmerichs said:


> I didn't get the impression Sam was interrupting the explanation...I thought he was interrupting before the voting could begin, in order to nominate Jon. Until Sam spoke, there was no hint that anybody was considering Jon...all the "speeches" before then were about the other two candidates.


Yeah. Sam's speech _was_ the nomination.



MikeAndrews said:


> Again from me: If there are other "faceless men" why does Arya's answer the door?


I don't think he did. Someone who later happened to wear a face that we saw someone else wear earlier answered the door. I think that that face is in the repertoire of more than one person.


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

MikeAndrews said:


> Oh. Daenerys' dragon (named "Dragon?") has a strong resemblance to the dog-faced Luck Dragon in The Never Ending Story.


I was thinking more like Draco.


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

The three dragons are named Drogon, Viserion, and Rhaegal.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

tlc said:


> So, the monk is the skinny blond cousin that Tyrion blackmailed? Or was there another cousin boinking Cersei? The former seemed really ineffectual. But it seems like the monk may not be.


When he was a squire, he was very unsure of himself, impressionable, and easily manipulated. He seems to have found his calling, no pun intended, as a monk.


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

MonsterJoe said:


> Did the actor who plays uncle Kevan change? I remember him being blond and heavier set


Same guy from season one.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I agree with the others that Jon wasn't a candidate until Sam spoke up. They didn't bother showing us any new explanation for the third candidate because it wasn't necessary. 

That was some surprisingly detailed CGI of Drogon's face. Pretty cool. 

I wonder if Maisie Williams should be scared. If Arya is training to be a faceless assassin, then that means they'll be able to replace Maisie with other actresses.

Littlefinger made a pretty good point that Brienne hasn't been very effective at protecting her masters.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I agree with the others that Jon wasn't a candidate until Sam spoke up. They didn't bother showing us any new explanation for the third candidate because it wasn't necessary.


Jon Snow did wave Sam off when he was looking to speak.



DevdogAZ said:


> That was some surprisingly detailed CGI of Drogon's face. Pretty cool.


Like I said, the same old stop motion that made the Luck Dragon 20 years ago.



DevdogAZ said:


> Littlefinger made a pretty good point that Brienne hasn't been very effective at protecting her masters.


Brienne is still good enough with a sword to gut knights sent after her.


----------



## tlc (May 30, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I wonder if Maisie Williams should be scared. If Arya is training to be a faceless assassin, then that means they'll be able to replace Maisie with other actresses.


I imagine she's very popular with the audience, so I think they'll use her face for her _character_ as much as possible. Unless she asks for more money, that is.

Ditto for the Ja'qen _face_. We may see it on this character (I assume it's a different character) because the actor was popular...


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

MikeAndrews said:


> Brienne is still good enough with a sword to gut knights sent after her.


And let's face it, in both cases there was absolutely nothing she (or anybody else) could have done about it...


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And let's face it, in both cases there was absolutely nothing she (or anybody else) could have done about it...


Of course we know that, but to anyone else who wasn't there or didn't get all the details, it looks like Brienne isn't very good at her job.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

MikeAndrews said:


> DevdogAZ said:
> 
> 
> > That was some surprisingly detailed CGI of Drogon's face. Pretty cool.
> ...


Urk, _30_ years ago. Well, maybe Falcor was a lot of puppetry, too.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

sbourgeo said:


> Don't most people believe that Bran and Rickon were killed by Theon Greyjoy? Sansa and Arya are just considered "missing" at this point though and Winterfell would go to their husbands or sons if and when they turn up again.


Yeah, the general opinion is that Bran and Rickon are dead. Arya is assumed to be dead too, since no one has seen her since she disappeared after Ned was killed. (except Brienne, Pod, and the Hound) If Sansa turns up won't Cersei try to have her arrested for killing Joffrey?



DavidTigerFan said:


> Ja'quen Hagar is a "faceless man". They are the assassins of Westeros.


Is that their main focus? Killing people?



tlc said:


> I don't think he did. Someone who later happened to wear a face that we saw someone else wear earlier answered the door. I think that that face is in the repertoire of more than one person.


That's an interesting idea--I hadn't thought of that. 

Arya's list is getting shorter, and she hasn't even had to work at it. 

I love the look on Brienne's face when people force her to explain how Renley died. Poor girl.


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> Is that their main focus? Killing people?


Yes. It's hard to say more without getting into spoilery territory.


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

stellie93 said:


> Is that their main focus? Killing people?


Yes. They're hired assassins.



stellie93 said:


> I love the look on Brienne's face when people force her to explain how Renley died. Poor girl.


And Little Finger made a good point that everyone she's assigned to protects dies.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

DevdogAZ said:


> Littlefinger made a pretty good point that Brienne hasn't been very effective at protecting her masters.


his point's were good, but i was surprised by littlefinger publically looking and sounding so desperate in front of brienne, sansa, and the guards while he was working to keep sansa's support - it seemed to contrast his normal "cool under pressure" demeanor to me. was this crack in his behavior a hint that his concern will be legitimized later on?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

stellie93 said:


> Arya's list is getting shorter, and she hasn't even had to work at it.


Speaking of that, what was the fourth name on her list? Cersei, Walder Frey, The Mountain, _________. I couldn't understand that last name.


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> Speaking of that, what was the fourth name on her list? Cersei, Walder Frey, The Mountain, _________. I couldn't understand that last name.


Merwyn Trant, one of the Kingsguard.


----------



## danielhart (Apr 27, 2004)

LordKronos said:


> If Jon were made a real Stark, then he would be second in line after Rob, but before Bran, Rickon, and the girls. When I said "that role was being saved for Bran", I didn't mean by the people in westeros...I meant the author. I feel like Bran's story is to come back and take that role as King in the North and then do something really big related to whatever he's learning right now. If Jon were to be made a Stark, then Bran would never be eligible for that position as long as Jon were alive.


I think/surmise Bran is supposed to be a key player in battling the White Walkers. That seems to be his destiny,


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

danielhart said:


> I think/surmise Bran is supposed to be a key player in battling the White Walkers. That seems to be his destiny,


Yeah, and we haven't checked in with Bran since they hooked up with the Ice King(?) HODOR!


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

MikeAndrews said:


> Yeah, and we haven't checked in with Bran since they hooked up with the Ice King(?) HODOR!


Bran (and I assume Hodor!) won't be in this season at all.


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Arya's list, with updated stats:

- Cersei (for her role in the execution of her father).
- Walder Frey (for his role in killing her brother and mother).
- The Mountain (for leading the brutal torture at Harrenhal).
- Meryn Trant (for killing Syrio Forel - though we never saw his death - and aiding Cersei in her coup)
- Polliver (for killing her friend Lommy, stealing her sword Needle and taking part in the brutal torture at Harrenhal. Killed by Arya, who mockingly repeated the same words Polliver said to Lommy when he killed him with her Needle.)
- Joffrey (for ordering the execution of her father. Killed during his own wedding.)
- Rorge (for threatening to rape her and for attacking her and the Hound. Killed by Arya just after adding him to the list.)
- The Hound (for killing her friend Mycah. Arya believes him to be dead - and is probably right.)
- Tywin Lannister (for leading the Lannisters against her brother. killed by ​Tyrion.)


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> Bran (and I assume Hodor!) won't be in this season at all.


I must have missed where in the first 2 episodes we were told this.


----------



## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Arya's list, with updated stats:
> 
> - Cersei (for her role in the execution of her father).
> - Walder Frey (for his role in killing her brother and mother).
> ...


Wasn't Sir Illyan Payne on there?


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

DavidTigerFan said:


> Wasn't Sir Illyan Payne on there?


He was, but apparently Benioff/Weiss sneakily took him off because the actor who portrayed him is/was dying of cancer.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Littlefinger made a pretty good point that Brienne hasn't been very effective at protecting her masters.


I think the point is, to us as viewers we know Brienne has done nothing wrong, and both her charges (Catylen, Renly) died beyond her control.

But to the people of Westeros, who don't know any of what really happened (ghost killers, really?), she is a poor protector.



tlc said:


> Unless she [Arya] asks for more money, that is.


I believe all the major characters have been signed thru season 7. And since the showrunners have said many times they want to end this in seven seasons... voila!

Which brings up the sad fact... only 28 episodes left! 



heySkippy said:


> I must have missed where in the first 2 episodes we were told this.


It was widely known and reported during the off-season that Bran/Hodor and that entire story line were taking this season off.


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

heySkippy said:


> I must have missed where in the first 2 episodes we were told this.


I was wondering about that too.



Rob Helmerichs said:


> I didn't get the impression Sam was interrupting the explanation...I thought he was interrupting before the voting could begin, in order to nominate Jon. Until Sam spoke, there was no hint that anybody was considering Jon...all the "speeches" before then were about the other two candidates.


That's how I saw it.


----------



## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

astrohip said:


> It was widely known and reported during the off-season that Bran/Hodor and that entire story line were taking this season off.


I heard that too but I can see how some people would consider it a spoiler.


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Azlen said:


> I heard that too but I can see how some people would consider it a spoiler.


If someone thinks that the absence of an entire storyline for an entire season is a spoiler, being spoiled is the least of their problems.


----------



## ACoolDude (Dec 11, 2001)

Shaunnick said:


> If someone thinks that the absence of an entire storyline for an entire season is a spoiler, being spoiled is the least of their problems.


I think the absence of an entire storyline for an entire season should be called a HODOR.

HODOR!


----------



## hairyblue (Feb 25, 2002)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Arya's list, with updated stats:
> 
> - Cersei (for her role in the execution of her father).


Cersei is a horrible woman but she did beg Joffrey to not kill Ned. When Joffrey said women have soft hearts and he ordered Ned's death, Cersei say to Joffrey "No, please Joffrey." Or did I remember this wrong?


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

Azlen said:


> I heard that too but I can see how some people would consider it a spoiler.


I hadn't. A lot of us avoid spoilers, usually successfully.


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

hairyblue said:


> Cersei is a horrible woman but she did beg Joffrey to not kill Ned. When Joffrey said women have soft hearts and he ordered Ned's death, Cersei say to Joffrey "No, please Joffrey." Or did I remember this wrong?


I don't think Arya is aware of that. Also, it occurs to me that Arya could also hate Cersei for making her get rid of her direwolf Nymeria.


----------



## wedgecon (Dec 28, 2002)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Yes. It's hard to say more without getting into spoilery territory.


They were discussed in a small council meeting in the first season. The King wanted to hire the faceless men to kill Denerays but Littlefinger told them they could hire an army of sell swords for the price of the faceless men. So they ended up hiring the cheap assassin who tried to poison her.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

ACoolDude said:


> I think the absence of an entire storyline for an entire season should be called a HODOR.
> 
> HODOR!


Yeah, but you think everything should be called a HODOR.


----------



## ACoolDude (Dec 11, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, but you think everything should be called a HODOR.


I think that you thinking that I think everything should be called a HODOR, should be called a RODOH.

But, whatever, It's all a moo point anyway.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, but you think everything should be called a HODOR.


I'm of the opinion that "Hodor" really means, "Take a flying leap at a rolling doughnut".


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm surprised we haven't yet discussed Dany's massive political blunder. Why did she insist on publicly executing this guy? And why didn't this guy get a trial when his crime was killing the other guy before he could stand trial? Seems that Dany has a severe lack of good counselors who know how to play the political game. It's a good thing Tyrion and Varys will be there soon. She needs them badly.


----------



## Fixer (Mar 29, 2005)

I'm curious as to why Dorne wasn't included in the intro. Last week, Pentos was in the intro, but was replaced with Braavos this week. On the Westeros side, The Eryie was still in, even though there weren't any scenes there.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Fixer said:


> I'm curious as to why Dorne wasn't included in the intro. Last week, Pentos was in the intro, but was replaced with Braavos this week. On the Westeros side, The Eryie was still in, even though there weren't any scenes there.


Traditionally, the locations in the opening credits don't mirror the episode exactly. Usually, a location will be there for several episodes in a row, regardless of whether anything in the episode takes place there. And it usually takes a couple episodes of things happening at a location before a new location makes it into the credits. I suspect we'll see Dorne either next week or the week after.


----------



## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

That's not how I remember. The locations in the credits are not necessarily the locations that appear in the show, but sometimes they represent the families that appear in the show.

We got Winterfell for Starks, even though Rob was in the field most of the time, for instance. 

I don't think I've ever noticed a show where the credit sequence didn't mirror the actual episode, if not by location, then by characters (for the main houses, anyway).

Though having said that... Winterfell now has the Bolton sigil on it. But we haven't seen a Bolton this episode, though we did see several Starks. I wonder how they are using Winterfell these days?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

The way I've interpreted it is that we'll always see King's Landing, Winterfell, and The Wall. The rest of the locations in the credits will vary based on the storyline, but occasionally a location will stay in the credits for an episode or two after a storyline at that location ends. And sometimes a new location doesn't make it into the credits until the story has been in that location for a couple episodes already.

Some examples from my brief research at the Game of Thrones Wikia:

- The Dreadfort was featured in the credits of the first seven episodes of S4, however, Ramsay and Theon only appeared in two of those episodes (S04E02 and S04E06).

- Braavos was featured in the credits for the final five episodes of S4, but there was only one episode when any of the action took place there (S04E06) and then in S04E10 Arya gains passage on a boat headed for Braavos.

- The Eyrie was never featured in the opening credits during S4, yet that was the season when Sansa went to the Eyrie with Baelish, Lysa is killed, Arya and the Hound arrive at the Bloody Gate only to be told that Lysa is dead, and then Baelish and Sansa have to testify before a tribunal about Lysa's death.

- Episode S04E09 features six locations in the credits (the main three, plus Moat Cailin, Braavos, and Meereen), but the entire episode takes place at The Wall.


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> I'm surprised we haven't yet discussed Dany's massive political blunder. Why did she insist on publicly executing this guy? And why didn't this guy get a trial when his crime was killing the other guy before he could stand trial? Seems that Dany has a severe lack of good counselors who know how to play the political game. It's a good thing Tyrion and Varys will be there soon. She needs them badly.


I was bothered by the lack of trial, too. All I could figure was that she considered it necessary since she he confessed to her.

I think the public beheading was because she thought it was right and thus far going with her gut has served her well.

Cannot wait for Tyrion!


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JYoung said:


> I'm of the opinion that "Hodor" really means, "Take a flying leap at a rolling doughnut".


I've found it amusing to listen to his dialogue when you imagine "Hodor" means "****"...


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

"Smurf"?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Robin said:


> "Smurf"?


While "smurf" is in essence a four-letter word, in spelling it is not.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

wedgecon said:


> They were discussed in a small council meeting in the first season. The King wanted to hire the faceless men to kill Denerays but Littlefinger told them they could hire an army of sell swords for the price of the faceless men. So they ended up hiring the cheap assassin who tried to poison her.


Perhaps in the book. In the TV show, they discussed assassinating her, but who the would hired to do it was never talked about. When we come into it, Robert has already made the decision, and all the talk that occurs about whether the rumors from Jorah (that Danyerius is pregnant) can be trusted, and whether killing an unborn child is honorable.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I'm surprised we haven't yet discussed Dany's massive political blunder. Why did she insist on publicly executing this guy? And why didn't this guy get a trial when his crime was killing the other guy before he could stand trial? Seems that Dany has a severe lack of good counselors who know how to play the political game. It's a good thing Tyrion and Varys will be there soon. She needs them badly.


Ser S? told her about the madness, cruelty and bad decisions of her father "The Mad King.' She just didn't get it.

Ser Jorah is still out and about. I wonder if he'll come back.

The dragons are also free to fly and toast at will. The populace is also not going to like being BBQd.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

To my prior point about the voting, after rewatching it:
1) There were only 2 voting posts initially. The 3rd post only showed up at the end
2) When Sam interrupted, it wasn't during the 2nd candidates name was being discussed as I thought. He interrupted right after that...a couple of words into the next sentence, which was clearly not another candidate's name, thus there clearly only 2 candidates initially.

So yes, I just misinterpreted this scene.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> While "smurf" is in essence a four-letter word, in spelling it is not.


Funny you guys should mention smurf. I've been listening to a podcast and while the content is above average the hosts throw around the F word so much you could substitute "smurf" and they'd sound like the little blue guys.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

MikeAndrews said:


> Ser S?


Barristan Selmy


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

I believe the assassins patron diety is the red god, same as Mellisandre. I'm getting an evil vibe off that one. Also, as an aside, for those that read the books. Is the story going anywhere, or is it an open ended tale?


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

I think Dany was sort of screwed either way. There's sort of a civil war there between her people...former slave owners vs former slaves. Trial or not, one group was going to be very upset with her decision.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Stormspace said:


> Also, as an aside, for those that read the books. Is the story going anywhere, or is it an open ended tale?


I'm doubt anyone here can answer that, since there are still 2 books in the series not yet (fully) written. It could end up wrapped up into a "Dany wins, becomes the good and just ruler, and ushers in 1000 years of peace", or it could be that it takes a last minute turn to say that politics is complicated, and even an ideal leader like Dany can fail miserably, and the wars continue on forever.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

LordKronos said:


> I'm doubt anyone here can answer that, since there are still 2 books in the series not yet (fully) written. It could end up wrapped up into a "Dany wins, becomes the good and just ruler, and ushers in 1000 years of peace", or it could be that it takes a last minute turn to say that politics is complicated, and even an ideal leader like Dany can fail miserably, and the wars continue on forever.


GRRM other books seem to be open ended as far as I can tell, going until they become so boring I quit reading them. I think he's a great author to start a series but that he doesn't want to wrap it up when it's done.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Stormspace said:


> GRRM other books seem to be open ended as far as I can tell, going until they become so boring I quit reading them. I think he's a great author to start a series but that he doesn't want to wrap it up when it's done.


?? Has he ever written another series?


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> ?? Has he ever written another series?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tales_of_Dunk_and_Egg


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

LordKronos said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tales_of_Dunk_and_Egg


Well, that's a number of shorts set in Westeros. I'm pretty sure Song of Ice and Fire is the only actual series he's written (of which the Dunk & Egg stories are a side project)...which makes the statement I was responding to, about Martin never "wrapping up" his series, puzzling.


----------



## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

Stormspace said:


> I believe the assassins patron diety is the red god, same as Mellisandre. I'm getting an evil vibe off that one. Also, as an aside, for those that read the books. Is the story going anywhere, or is it an open ended tale?


They are dedicated to the "Many Faced God" or the "God of Death" not the "Red God" or "Lord of Light"


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, that's a number of shorts set in Westeros. I'm pretty sure Song of Ice and Fire is the only actual series he's written (of which the Dunk & Egg stories are a side project)...which makes the statement I was responding to, about Martin never "wrapping up" his series, puzzling.


He wrote Wild Cards. It's a series that starts some where between WWI and II when a villain releases a poison gas into the atmosphere above New York. The gas causes mutations, some people get handed an "Ace", some get a "Joker", others get something in between or nothing at all. The original protagonist is a guy who calls himself the Turtle. He has some incredible TK powers, but for some reason can't use them unless he's in a protective shell. He uses an modified VW beetle from a junk yard as his shell. It's a good read for at least the first two or three, then it goes downhill for the reasons stated.


----------



## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

LordKronos said:


> I think Dany was sort of screwed either way. There's sort of a civil war there between her people...former slave owners vs former slaves. Trial or not, one group was going to be very upset with her decision.


I think this was a misguided attempt to show that she intends to treat all her subject the same. Up to this point, her decisions have heavily favored the former slaves. Since this particular former slave confessed to murder, this was an opportunity for her to show that she expects justice for everyone, regardless of their (former) place in society. Clearly it backfired on her, but I think this was her line of thinking.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Stormspace said:


> He wrote Wild Cards.


Nope. That's a shared-world anthology series that he edits.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Stormspace said:


> He wrote Wild Cards.


Actually, multiple other people write it and he just pulled them together and edited it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Cards


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

dwatt said:


> They are dedicated to the "Many Faced God" or the "God of Death" not the "Red God" or "Lord of Light"


Ok. I thought I heard the one assassin mention the Red God back in Harrenhall.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Arya's list, with updated stats:
> 
> - Cersei (for her role in the execution of her father).
> - Walder Frey (for his role in killing her brother and mother).
> ...


Thank you for this. I thought her list got awfully short so it makes sense that it's because almost everyone on it is already dead. Too bad about the actor playing the executioner. I was very much looking forward to his death (on the screen!).



Robin said:


> I hadn't. A lot of us about spoilers, usually successfully.


All your base are belong to us.



DevdogAZ said:


> The way I've interpreted it is that we'll always see King's Landing, Winterfell, and The Wall. The rest of the locations in the credits will vary based on the storyline, but occasionally a location will stay in the credits for an episode or two after a storyline at that location ends.


I just hope we get to see Casterly Rock!


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Another Varys/Tyrion gem:

Varys: Are we really going to spend the entire road to Volantis talking about the futility of everything?
Tyrion: Youre right, no point.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Nope. That's a shared-world anthology series that he edits.


Not the earlier books. I think he wrote those by himself.

Edit: Checked the Wiki link. Explains the whole thing.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Stormspace said:


> Not the earlier books. I think he wrote those by himself.


Even according to his own official website ( http://www.georgerrmartin.com/bibliography/ ) he only edited them.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

LordKronos said:


> Even according to his own official website ( http://www.georgerrmartin.com/bibliography/ ) he only edited them.


Yeah. Saw that. So much for my nearly geriatric memory.


----------



## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

I love Wild Cards, but it was never designed as a story with a beginning, middle and end. It was always open ended, and, IIRC, came out after the Thieves World shared universe did so well.

Song of Ice and Fire was always planned to have an end. It's just that the middle got away from him. This is particularly sad since one of the joys of Song of Ice and Fire was how fast things were moving in comparison to the middle of The Wheel of Time, which bogged down in such an epic way that it's now the standard joke. Ice and Fire was a refreshing change from that.

Alas, it looks like we actually have to worry about whether Brandon Sanderson has time in his schedule to finish another epic "Trilogy" that went long.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

LordKronos said:


> I think Dany was sort of screwed either way. There's sort of a civil war there between her people...former slave owners vs former slaves. Trial or not, one group was going to be very upset with her decision.


Which is why she shouldn't have done anything in public. And if she had savvy political operatives counseling her, they would have told her that a public execution in that situation is lose/lose.


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)




----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

I've forgotten to link to the weekly "Ask the Maester" columns on Grantland. I find them both informative and amusing. Here's the episode 2 column:

http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/ask-the-maester-game-of-thrones-week-2/


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

MikeAndrews said:


> The dragons are also free to fly and toast at will. The populace is also not going to like being BBQd.


 I think Drogon is the only dragon free right now. As far as we know the other two are still chained up in the basement.



Ereth said:


> Alas, it looks like we actually have to worry about whether Brandon Sanderson has time in his schedule to finish another epic "Trilogy" that went long.


 Argh! He needs to finish _Stormlight_ first!


----------



## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Littlefinger made a pretty good point that Brienne hasn't been very effective at protecting her masters.


Her record on the Kingsguard is certainly no worse than Jaime Lannister (3 dead kings) or Barristan Selmy (2).

Littlefinger's point was well-made, and it's not as if Brienne would rebut with "Well, Lady Stark was not my fault, since she sent me away on a mission to escort Jaime Lannister back to Kings Landing to trade for you, and he only lost a hand while under my protection."

I don't recall if Brienne ever met Sansa in Kings Landing on the show.


----------



## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

MacThor said:


> Her record on the Kingsguard is certainly no worse than Jaime Lannister (3 dead kings) or Barristan Selmy (2).
> 
> Littlefinger's point was well-made, and it's not as if Brienne would rebut with "Well, Lady Stark was not my fault, since she sent me away on a mission to escort Jaime Lannister back to Kings Landing to trade for you, and he only lost a hand while under my protection."
> 
> I don't recall if Brienne ever met Sansa in Kings Landing on the show.


I don't remember that they were ever shown actually meeting, but they were both at Jeoffry's wedding together.


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

GoT on FB


----------



## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

DUDE_NJX said:


> GoT on FB


wow, this is so so good - can't stop laughing.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Shaunnick said:


>


I don't get it.

But Davos always looks like he _really, really_ needs to take dump.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Weekly Tell-me-what-to-do-so-I-can-mess-it-up meeting  :up:


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Forgot to mention that it didn't look like there were many Crows left. There may have been 30 or so votes cast in that election.

Also, I'm looking forward to the sequel to Jamie and Brienne's excellent adventure featuring Jamie and Bronn!


----------



## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

Anubys said:


> Forgot to mention that it didn't look like there were many Crows left. There may have been 30 or so votes cast in that election.


Gerrymandering, no doubt.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I love when Selmy told Danny that half her DNA comes from a crazy, pyromaniac psychopath, and the rest from his sister.


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

DUDE_NJX said:


> GoT on FB


Bruunch!


----------



## ACoolDude (Dec 11, 2001)

Not necessarily for this episode, but this has been me more than once...


----------

