# Careful about your DTV commitment



## pasqua (Nov 25, 2002)

I recently cancelled my DTV service. I did it grudgingly but I just didn't want to give up on TiVo. I switched to Comcast and I now have two TiVoHD's which are functioning well. I had no problem with CableCard setup.

However, I got a letter today from DTV saying that I had cancelled my service before my commitment was up. I wondered how this could be since I confirmed months ago that my commitment was complete. I've even got an email from DTV confirming it.

Well, a couple of months ago one of my DirecTiVo's failed so I replaced it. They consider this replacement box to be new equipment and new service. That restarted my commitment. No one informed me of this when I replaced the TiVo nor when I called to cancel my service. This seems preposterous to me. I own the TiVo, I don't rent it from them. I'm still working on an escalation. If you care, you can read more details about it on TooFrickinHard.com.

I just wanted to warn anyone else who might fall into the same trap.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

How long did they extend your commitment? 1yr or 2yrs? How much $ do they want for ending early?

I agree that the commitment should not restart with a replacement unit. 

Have you thought about keeping the unit activated at the lowest level of programming until the commitment expires?


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## Dkerr24 (Oct 29, 2004)

Ok, I'm going to take the other side here for a minute. 

When your DTivo failed, you were offered a replacement DVR. How much did Directv charge you for that replacement DVR? Surely you realized that if they didn't charge you for the replacement DVR, there must be some other commitment required. 

You didn't ask? 

They didn't tell you? 

I'd say it's just as much the responsibility of the customer to ask if there are any commitments to get free replacement equipment as it is for Directv to tell you what you will agree to by taking replacement equipment.

I replaced the hard drives in my units when they failed instead of committing to another 2 years.


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## gdish (Dec 16, 2007)

I just switched from receiver only to my OWN DVR (DVR40) unit today. I had to raise a stink (on Christmas Eve no less) and have a drawn out discussion explaining that they don't own my unit. The guy kept telling me that it was a leased unit. Well, no, it's my unit. Finally had to get the MOD to get it straight, but they did add it without extending a 2 year. So ... as the thread warns... beware. If I hadn't brought it up, I would be in a 2 year extension right now without realizing it.

Greg


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## pasqua (Nov 25, 2002)

Dkerr24 said:


> When your DTivo failed, you were offered a replacement DVR. How much did Directv charge you for that replacement DVR? Surely you realized that if they didn't charge you for the replacement DVR, there must be some other commitment required.


As I mentioned, I did not get a replacement unit from DTV. I bought a new TiVo myself to replace the TiVo that I had previously bought myself. Of course if they had given me a receiver for free or subsidized it in any way I would have expected there to be strings attached. Since I was replacing a unit that I paid for with another unit that I paid for I did not expect any impact on my commitment.

My reason for posting this message (in addition to venting) was to warn others to be more inquisitive than I was. Even if you can't imagine that some action will affect your commitment, you had better ask.


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## ttodd1 (Nov 6, 2003)

If you bought the new unit from BB or CC then you signed a piece of paper stating that you would activate it within a certain amount of time AND you are committed to x amount of years/months/whatever to DTV. If you got it from ebay or such and called to have it activated then I agree with Jim that a replacement unit should not increase your commitment.


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## pasqua (Nov 25, 2002)

ttodd1 said:


> If you bought the new unit from BB or CC then you signed a piece of paper stating that you would activate it within a certain amount of time AND you are committed to x amount of years/months/whatever to DTV. If you got it from ebay or such and called to have it activated then I agree with Jim that a replacement unit should not increase your commitment.


Bought it from an individual via craigslist.


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## cramer (Aug 14, 2000)

ttodd1 said:


> If you bought the new unit from BB or CC ...


No DTivo has been available at retail for several years. As such, no DTivo has ever been *leased* -- they started this crap long after they stopped shipping DTivos.

The issue is DTV's greed and incompetence -- second only to cable companies in lack of training their employees. They automatically mark everything as leased... even a 1st generation standard receiver (over a decade old) will be added as leased if you try to activate one today. (been there, don't recommend it. They're just as confused by the lack of a RID.) If you want to (re)activate a receiver, you _must_ call them and be transfered to the "access card department" to have the machine marked as owned and have the _automatic_ contract removed.


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## tammyinmi (Jun 4, 2005)

pasqua

I just had a simuliar situation happen to me. I have been a D* customer for 8 years and I have owned 5 receivers in my time with them. I too did not want to give up my tivo DVR's but wanted HD service. I recently tried to upgrade to HD service with them and was told I had a LOS issue that would not allow the upgrade. After many failed attempts and bad customer service from D*, I decided to cancel D* and move to cable and purchased a TivoHD. I too asked the CSR at D* about any possible commitments since I did activate a used tivo DVR a while back. They informed me I was under no commitment. About 2 weeks later I had my cable installed and I called to cancel my D*. After cancelling my account, the CSR told me that I had a lease DVR and that I was under a 2 year commitment and was going to be charged $175 and I was going to have to return the DVR. I explained to them that the DVR was not a lease and that I purchased it as a open-box demo when CompUSA was going out of business. I didn't care if they wanted the box back. I was not paying for any commitment cancellation. I was informed by them that I was under no commitment and wanted to know why now I was being told I was. They said that if I had any credit card or payment information on file that they were going to charge the cancellation fee no matter what. That was the tipping point for me. I then became very upset and loud with them on the phone and demanded to talk to a manager. That was a waste of time, cause he told me the same thing. Only that I had the ability to write a letter to disagree with the charge and see what would happen. I ended the phone call with the plan to write a letter. About an hour later, I received a phone call from D* retention department, offering me a free year of DVR service and 6 months of my HBO if I would consider returning to D*. I explained to them the previous converstaion I had and they transferred me to someone in the access card department and they were able to mark on my account that the last DVR was not a lease, but owned. The way to change this was to re-activate my account and mark it owned, then re-cancel the account. Then she started a escalation case and told me that they may charge me during this process. By doing so that only prompted another phone call a few hours later from retention again, and I told them I was not going to explain the story all over again. To this day I have not been charged or have not heard anything from D* except for the 39.00 bill for partial month of service. Hope that your situation works out, and I think that others should know what D* is capable of doing to you to prevent you from cancelling service.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

I hate contracts. I would suggest anybody who has a CSR say there is no committement write notes in your account and fax a you a letter. Verbal conversations never go anywhere.


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## ttodd1 (Nov 6, 2003)

cramer said:


> No DTivo has been available at retail for several years. As such, no DTivo has ever been *leased* -- they started this crap long after they stopped shipping DTivos.
> 
> The issue is DTV's greed and incompetence -- second only to cable companies in lack of training their employees. They automatically mark everything as leased... even a 1st generation standard receiver (over a decade old) will be added as leased if you try to activate one today. (been there, don't recommend it. They're just as confused by the lack of a RID.) If you want to (re)activate a receiver, you _must_ call them and be transfered to the "access card department" to have the machine marked as owned and have the _automatic_ contract removed.


I do not believe you are correct. There had been reports - granted a few months ago - that there were still some R10s to be found. And I also do believe that some of the DTivos were indeed leased.


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## patonenow (Jul 22, 2005)

PASQUA, The folks at D* don't know their one hand from the other and that should come as no surprise to many.
HOWEVER, they are totally responsible for anyone that represents themselves as a D* csr or supervisor whether it is actually D* theirselves or a contracted agency.
My suggestion is to send a" letter" or notice or preponderence to file a lawsuit right to their legal department as then that alone forces them to have to actually look at the issue. And the arbitration clause in the contracts doesn't mean you can't do that as it is actually up to the judge to allow or disallow that.And their have been past cases where people have been allowed to sue if settlement can't be reached.
All I'm saying is if you want or expect more than lip service from D* and no action then go that route. Just look at the tivo "update" 6.3e issue and their first denying it and later their famous "we'll give you a R15" as their only answer.You may hear more about that fact later but in the meantime they are getting enough rope to hang theirselves.They are and will be held responsible and it's sad they ONCE were a great company but now one to be scared to even do business with anymore.
The legal address for them is on their website.Good luck!


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## hddude55 (Jan 5, 2007)

pasqua said:


> ...
> My reason for posting this message (in addition to venting) was to warn others to be more inquisitive than I was. ....


 So you have posted this information in at least two forums to let people know they should be more inquisitive? Maybe you should just learn from your mistake and not try to blacken a company's name for your admitted failure.


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## parzec (Jun 21, 2002)

Thanks for spreading the word on this dispicable business practice. Keep us posted on your progress!


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

cramer said:


> No DTivo has been available at retail for several years. As such, no DTivo has ever been *leased* -- they started this crap long after they stopped shipping DTivos.


Incorrect. CC was selling brand new R10's earlier this year. They were, however, according to CC's web site, leased units.


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

hddude55 said:


> So you have posted this information in at least two forums to let people know they should be more inquisitive? Maybe you should just learn from your mistake and not try to blacken a company's name for your admitted failure.


Wow, you are an ass.


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## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

bengalfreak said:


> Wow, you are an ass.


Yep







HEE HAWW


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## jeffro1 (Jul 26, 2005)

I have one for you. I had a Samsung that lost sat 2 and CS sent out THEIR brand of dvr and it had the same exact problem. Sent their's back and they sent a second of THEIR brand...never took it out of the box. In the mean time I had seen where if you disconnect the S-video it might fix missing sat prob...not sure if a fluke, just luck, or what but the original Samsung was working like it should again. I sent Their brand back to them after receiving the return kit from them. I confirmed with one CSR that since I have my original equipment that I bought again and sent them theirs back that I didnt have a new contract. However on my next bill it shows not mirroring fee but lease fee. I contacted CS again and was told they put me in a new committment and a letter was sent out to me. Never got the letter and no explanation. My bill still says lease fee (which they told me at CS that is now called "mirroring fee") and I sent an email and even got no response from that. What do I do now? 

Jeff


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## ADent (Jan 7, 2000)

For awhile DTV was making a commitment of 1 year for ANY activation - new or used or free or leased or whatever.


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## tasha99 (Dec 29, 2007)

It is very important to read and keep contracts from companies like Directv. I got some new dvrs through them and was very disappointed that they weren't Tivos (despite the pictures being Tivo on the website). They wouldn't change them out for me, but I decided to try them since the fine print in the contract said I would have an early cancellation penalty UNLESS I returned both units to DTV. About a year and a half later, I decided to switch--the new dvrs were buggy and I was moving anyway. The CSR at DTV said I would have to pay penalties ($175 per box, if I remember right), but I pulled out my contract and read the relevant parts to her. Sure enough, she got her supervisor on the phone who said I was correct. They arranged a pickup by sending me FedEx boxes and I shipped them back to DTV. DTV even paid the shipping fee, though I would have gladly paid it.


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## spudly (Sep 19, 2001)

Certainly this is no problem in playing devils advocate, but DirecTV has been practicing this type of "mistake" for sometime.

For example, as a subscriber for many years (before they became like a cable company and you had to purchase/own the receivers) I had a unit fail while under warranty. The unit I OWNED was replaced. However the act of activating my newly replaced unit, the CSR (mistakenly? incorrectly? wrongly) marked it as "leased" even though I pro actively confirmed that this was a unit I owned. While the receiver was eventually reverted back to "owned" status, the original lease designation automatically kicked off a new 2 year contract despite no mention of this during any phone call (nor should there have been, I made zero programming changes).

I did not find out about this commitment until sometime later when an completely different issue came up and I weighed my options about leaving DirecTV and they were quick to point out I could not do so do to my contract! I had to spend more time and effort dealing with this matter that if it were not for my grandfathered lifetime DVR (TiVo) that I'd likely be done with 'em. To this day, the only ammunition I have is an email that claims they will waive my ETF if I choose to leave DirecTY.

So whether intentional or not, DTV uses very deceptive practices in extending contracts/commitments. Often the consumer doesn't know that their actions with CSR will result in undesired results until it is too late.

-Spudly


Dkerr24 said:


> Ok, I'm going to take the other side here for a minute.
> 
> When your DTivo failed, you were offered a replacement DVR. How much did Directv charge you for that replacement DVR? Surely you realized that if they didn't charge you for the replacement DVR, there must be some other commitment required.
> 
> ...


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## 20TIL6 (Sep 7, 2006)

"So whether intentional or not, DTV uses very deceptive practices in extending contracts/commitments. Often the consumer doesn't know that their actions with CSR will result in undesired results until it is too late."

AGREED!

My ex called me the other day after she called to cancel her DTV service. Long story short. It used to be my account, probably 13+ years with DTV, and I was a great customer for them during all that time (never a late payment, Sunday Ticket every year, etc). All equipment was owned, all SD TiVo units. Anyway, the account transferred into her name after our divorce.

Well, she bought an HDTV and I had told her about DTV and TiVo parting ways. So she calls DTV up to cancel service; going to cable with a new TiVo HD. She calls them up and gives them the story...No more TiVo, no more DTV customer....and they go into a long winded conversation about sending her replacement equipment for free and all. An HR21 I presume. She says no, they persist, she says no again, they persist, she puts the phone down, they keep persisting.....when she no longer hears them talking, she picks up the phone and again says no, I don't want that. Cancel my service.

Then they lower the boom. They tell her she's got a 1 year committment in effect and breaking it would cost $75. Yeah, I know, what's $75? But here's how they got the committment:

After the account was transferred into her name, they sent her a little postcard to thank her for being such a great customer and all. And they'd like to take $5 off her monthly bill for the next year. A total savings of $60! She told me that she never read anywhere, or was told by anyone, that taking this "great customer thank you offer" would bring with it a 1 year committment.....but it did! And that's what they are sticking her with.

A $75 penalty for a $60 value, of which she says she's only used half. She was livid.

She still got them to cancel her account, but they are still expecting the $75 from her. She offered to pay them $30 (the portion of the discount she used) - again from a "thank you for being a great customer" deal. And I'm just laughing about it all.

What crap. You'd think an account as old as 13+ years would get a bit more respect. But I guess not. I know one thing, she'll never go back to DTV.


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

Its come down to the point that you are going to have to record every call you make with DirecTV. And make sure that you inform them that you are doing so since, in most states, its the law. I don't begrudge them the commitments, as people jump ship all the time as soon as they get a better deal, its the silence about the contract that really gets me going. Its as if they take the tact that we should have known there is an extension. I think the answer to this is to make verbal contracts over the phone illegal. They should have to get your signature on something before anything legal can be enforced. At the very least, they should have to keep a recording of your conversation on record for the length of the agreement.


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## 20TIL6 (Sep 7, 2006)

bengalfreak said:


> Its come down to the point that you are going to have to record every call you make with DirecTV. And make sure that you inform them that you are doing so since, in most states, its the law.


Or in the least, just say that you are recording the call. Whether you are actually recording it or not. It's just a shame really. I used to be such a fanboy of DirecTV. But they are definitely NOT the same company I signed up with all those years ago. The DirecTV I knew back then would not treat customers like this. They'd hook you on products/service/value, not stealth committments.


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## restart88 (Mar 9, 2002)

gdish said:


> I just switched from receiver only to my OWN DVR (DVR40) unit today. I had to raise a stink (on Christmas Eve no less) and have a drawn out discussion explaining that they don't own my unit. The guy kept telling me that it was a leased unit. Well, no, it's my unit. Finally had to get the MOD to get it straight, but they did add it without extending a 2 year. So ... as the thread warns... beware. If I hadn't brought it up, I would be in a 2 year extension right now without realizing it.
> 
> Greg


Don't get me started on the reps of late!

Long story short, I had a receiver that died a few months ago and it took over a week to get to someone who would let me move the card into a receiver that I had bought used. I loved it because it had a serial port for my SA Tivo.

But that receiver died in 2 months. Hey, it was old and it was cheap. But then it took me another week to get the same card moved to another used receiver.

1st 2 reps said it COULDN'T be done and that I had to pay $20 for a new card, even though I pointed out that it just had been done 2 months prior. Next rep tried to sell me a leased receiver for $20 and an 18 month commitment. Next two reps, "our system is updating, call back." Numerous emails went unanswered. FINALLY, got through to a rep who processed the change in -- get this -- 15 seconds! (eyes rolling)

I have usually had pretty good luck with the D* reps, but lately seems like a lot of newbies.


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## jwhitesel (Nov 4, 2004)

I'm in the process of leaving D* for fios and after reading this thread I thought I better check with them on my commitments. I sent them an email from their website and asked them to confirm that I have no commitments and that my equipment is not leased. After about 4 hours they sent me an email back confirming I have no commitments At least I have it writing if they try to pull anything.


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## wkearney99 (Dec 5, 2003)

I can't wait to tell the DirecTV folks to pound sand. Next week FIOS gets installed into a new TivoHD. So long DirecTV.


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## pasqua (Nov 25, 2002)

Just wanted to let people know what happened. DTV did not get back to me in 14 days as they said they would so I got back to them via email. They acknowledged that they had received my email and said they were reviewing the situation. In the end they credited my account for the termination fee they had charged me.

It was a bit of a hassle, but DTV did the right thing in the end.


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## patonenow (Jul 22, 2005)

PASQUA, thank you for letting us know.Kind of shows that if a person sticks to their objective the other party sooner or late has to deal with it. GOOD LUCK!


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## Barryrod (Mar 17, 2006)

Anyone know if you can check your account online to see if you have any commitments?


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## pasqua (Nov 25, 2002)

Barryrod said:


> Anyone know if you can check your account online to see if you have any commitments?


I couldn't find a place to check this online. That doesn't mean there isn't one; perhaps I just couldn't find it. I ended up emailing them to ask.


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

It used to be on your bill, and thus your online copy of your bill, but its not there anymore.


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## Pictor Guy (Apr 6, 2003)

I too am running into trouble with my contract on DirecTV. Last summer I purchased an HR10-250 on eBay. When I added it to my account I asked what my contract commitment was and if adding this receiver would extend it. She said no because it was a used receiver with no commitments and that I had already fulfilled my contract commitments for my other receivers. My other HR10-250 did should up as a lease though. 

After reading this thread I decided to get it in writing and was sent an email stating that my contract would end this summer. When I sent a reply asking for clarification I was told they made a mistake and that my contract ended in the Summer of 2009! What kind of operation has DirecTV turned into that they can't even provide an answer to the contract period? The fact that this information isn't available online reeks of deceit. Where's the transparency?

I've sent another reply asking for more clarification. 

Has the contract period changed over the years from one year to two? And would this be easier fighting as a breach of contract because they're dumping MPEG2 channels?


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

Dkerr24 said:


> Ok, I'm going to take the other side here for a minute.
> 
> When your DTivo failed, you were offered a replacement DVR. How much did Directv charge you for that replacement DVR? Surely you realized that if they didn't charge you for the replacement DVR, there must be some other commitment required.
> 
> ...


The replacement equipment isn't really free when you are paying a monthly fee for the protection plan. You have paid a monthly insurance premium and the while you don't pay out of pocket, it is a covered loss. However, the directv policy is that when an owned receiver is replaced under the protection plan, there is a new 2 year commitment that goes into effect when the replacement receiver is put into service.


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## ninjadvr (Aug 19, 2005)

I used to have DTV before I moved into a condo facing east, then I changed to comcast (now sick of thier dvr and a tivo series3 is being shipped to me as I write). 

I had thier H20 for a while after previously having one of thier Samsung tivo units. I upgraded when the HR10-250 was still available, but by the time a tech appointment was available they changed thier policy and wanted to give me the DTV DVR (MPEG4). I said no way and that I wanted the tivo loaded unit. I ended up buying an HR10-250 from Best Buy. When I moved, DTV claimed it was thier unit. Of course I said absolutely not and that I purchased directly. They claimed it was subsidized. I had to negotiate with them to be able to keep the HR10-250 outright, yet pay a contract cancellation. What I found out was that DTV used to give thier dvr's to customers, effectively we bought them, so when replacements came we keep the old one (I had a couple of old dtv dvrs). But sometime in 2007 or maybe 2006 they changed thier policy and it became a case of leasing units. I coudln't find anything in writting explaining that either. At the time, I just wanted to keep my HR10-250 for possible future use (and to watch the remaining recordings), and wanted to move on. DirecTV like all of them, like changing the goal posts in terms of contracts so agree - be careful. 

Now I'm waiting for FIOS to be installed sometime this year, I hear the fiber optic signal is great, as is the TV, Internet and Phone - but as usual their customer service is terrible.


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## sirfergy (May 18, 2002)

I had a similar situation regarding commitment. They said if I returned my owned HR10-250, they would "excuse" my commitment. It took a total of six months, but I finally got a check for the $225 cancellation fee. I had to write a letter to the billing dispute department, and after they still refused to reverse the charge, I emailed a copy of it to the president of DirectTV. I quickly got a response saying they would take care of it. Unfortunately it took three months after that to get the refund.


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## Barryrod (Mar 17, 2006)

ninjadvr said:


> I ended up buying an HR10-250 from Best Buy. When I moved, DTV claimed it was thier unit. Of course I said absolutely not and that I purchased directly. They claimed it was subsidized. I had to negotiate with them to be able to keep the HR10-250 outright, yet pay a contract cancellation. What I found out was that DTV used to give thier dvr's to customers, effectively we bought them, so when replacements came we keep the old one (I had a couple of old dtv dvrs). But sometime in 2007 or maybe 2006 they changed thier policy and it became a case of leasing units. I coudln't find anything in writting explaining that either. At the time, I just wanted to keep my HR10-250 for possible future use (and to watch the remaining recordings), and wanted to move on. DirecTV like all of them, like changing the goal posts in terms of contracts so agree - be careful.


Welcome to last year.

This has been discussed on the boards here over and over, again and again. Way too many times for me to bother counting.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Dkerr24 said:


> You didn't ask?
> 
> They didn't tell you?
> 
> I'd say it's just as much the responsibility of the customer to ask if there are any commitments to get free replacement equipment as it is for Directv to tell you what you will agree to by taking replacement equipment.


That is ABSOLUTELY not true.

Think for a moment about the terms COMMITMENT and CONTRACT. Those very words require them to INFORM YOU that by taking said action you are agreeing to extend your commitment to directv.

When my cell phone extended my contract due to replacing a broken cell phone, they read to me a statement about how by doing this I was agreeing to a contract, they recorded this conversation.

They can't just SAY you're under contract, with NOTHING in writing or NOTHING verbal discussed.



hddude55 said:


> So you have posted this information in at least two forums to let people know they should be more inquisitive? Maybe you should just learn from your mistake and not try to blacken a company's name for your admitted failure.


Is there some new law that says someone can just SAY they have a contract with you and that makes it true?

As far as I know, the person who 'claims' to have a contract needs to actually be able to produce it (in writing, or a tape) to enforce it.


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## ninjadvr (Aug 19, 2005)

Barryrod said:


> Welcome to last year.
> 
> This has been discussed on the boards here over and over, again and again. Way too many times for me to bother counting.


Well, it seemed to be relevant to this thread, didn't see it discussed elswhere since I haven't been to this board in a while. Not sure what the big deal is...


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

Adam1115 said:


> They can't just SAY you're under contract, with NOTHING in writing or NOTHING verbal discussed.


You are right of course, unfortunately businesses have all the cards when reporting you to credit bureaus. And you can really have alot of hoops to jump thru to get inaccurate credit information removed from your files.


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## Azure (Feb 28, 2000)

If DirecTV is now LEASING their equipment (even though you have to pay $200 for an HD DVR), and you have to return it when you cancel your account, why are there any contract commitments at all? Before you were BUYING the equipment at a subsidized reduced cost, so I could understand being tied to a 1- or 2-year contract. Now, it makes no sense.


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## CrashHD (Nov 10, 2006)

Excellent point. 

There is still the installation related costs that DTV provided (dish, multiswitch+cables, installation labor), but I still don't think that justifies a 24 month committment.


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## restart88 (Mar 9, 2002)

That's assuming they pay for they install. Retail stores still sell the new dish last I checked and some of us are more brave than others.


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## restart88 (Mar 9, 2002)

Originally Posted by Adam1115 View Post
They can't just SAY you're under contract, with NOTHING in writing or NOTHING verbal discussed.

Actually some can and DO. I've read enough from the credit problem boards to know that. And it is frightening!


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

restart88 said:


> Originally Posted by Adam1115 View Post
> They can't just SAY you're under contract, with NOTHING in writing or NOTHING verbal discussed.
> 
> Actually some can and DO. I've read enough from the credit problem boards to know that. And it is frightening!


It's not *frightening*. They say it. You say prove it. They can't. You say then stop billing me or take me to court because you don't have a contract. They put it on your credit. You file a complaint with all three credit agencies, the BBB, state attorney generals office. It comes off your credit report. They drop it.

PITA? Sure, but companies do this stuff because people don't stand up to companies that try to screw them.

I went through this with a cell phone company.

Me: 'I'd like to cancel.'
CSR: 'Sir, your still under contract, there is a $200 cancellation fee.'
ME: 'No, I'm not under any contract.'
CSR: 'Sir we show you changed your plan on <DATE>' 
ME: 'Yes, that's correct.'
CSR: 'That extended your contract.'
ME: 'Nope, I never agreed to that.'
CSR: 'We have it on tape, we record all of these calls for this purpose.'
ME: 'No, you don't have something on tape that never happened, please produce said tape.' 
CSR: 'I don't have access to that, but our CSR's don't put that your under contract if you aren't.' 
ME: 'Trust me, your CSR's make PLENTY of mistakes.'

They billed me, I didn't pay, they sent it to collections, reported it on my credit. Sent the same letter to everyone and it came off. After they got my complaint they removed the charge from my bill and credit.


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

If its anything like the nightmare I went thru when I was the victim of identity theft (20 years ago before anyone had ever heard of it) that negative mark can keep popping back up on your credit report for years.


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## rob.williams (Oct 15, 2002)

I canceled DTV yesterday. Around 6 months ago, I activated a Series 2 I bought on Craigslist. When I called to cancel, they said it was a leased box, so had another 1.5 years on the commitment. Fortunately, the CSR immediately recognized it wasn't a leased box, and after a 3-4 minute hold, it was fixed. So, maybe they are trying to clean up their act after lots of complaints.


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## restart88 (Mar 9, 2002)

It comes off your credit report.

Like the next poster said, sometimes they come back over and over again.

I still have a CBR claiming I own a home out of state in a city I've never lived in and they have yet to even tell me which subscriber is making the claim.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

bengalfreak said:


> If its anything like the nightmare I went thru when I was the victim of identity theft (20 years ago before anyone had ever heard of it) that negative mark can keep popping back up on your credit report for years.


No, just the term 'identity theft' wasn't as mis-used back then.

Credit card fraud is NOT identity theft, as the credit card companies would like everyone to believe (so that they can charge for unnecessary 'credit monitoring'.) Credit card companies are required BY LAW to remove unauthorized charges. Credit reporting agencies are also required BY LAW to remove fraudulent reports.

Identity theft is when someone steals your SSN, name, makes fake documents and uses those documents to get a job, get arrested, etc. It's MUCH more common now due to lack of illegal immigration enforcement.


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## CrashHD (Nov 10, 2006)

^good info^



Adam1115 said:


> ...Credit card companies are required BY LAW to remove unauthorized charges. Credit reporting agencies are also required BY LAW to remove fraudulent reports...


They're required by law to do it, but they're not required to make it a convenient, hassle-free process. It can still be a nightmare.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

CrashHD said:


> They're required by law to do it, but they're not required to make it a convenient, hassle-free process. It can still be a nightmare.


You're right, but most credit card companies do.

Most people, if their credit card company DID make it a headache, would cancel and move their balance to somewhere else.

I've never had any problems with disputing unauthorized charges.


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

Adam1115 said:


> Credit card fraud is NOT identity theft,


Maybe its not according to you. But the Princeton definition is:

the co-option of another person's personal information (e.g., name, Social Security number, credit card number, passport) without that person's knowledge and the fraudulent use of such knowledge

Seems to me that credit card fraud fits that definition quite nicely.


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## CrashHD (Nov 10, 2006)

Adam1115 said:


> Most people, if their credit card company DID make it a headache, would cancel and move their balance to somewhere else.
> I've never had any problems with disputing unauthorized charges.


I was speaking more of the difficulty correcting incorrect information with credit reporting agencies, than with credit card disputes. In my experience, they have not been as bad as the credit reporting agencies. They make it so difficult to correct bad information, that people actually consider paying things they know they shouldn't owe for. It creates a situation where creditors can behave like terrorists and hold your credit rating hostage. It's not right, but that's the way it actually works. Sometimes it's just easier to shoot the hostage.


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