# Some SD content stretched horizontally



## pgoelz (May 1, 2005)

OK, this should have a simple answer. But the answer eludes me because of all the possible variables  

I'm using a Bolt on Comcast, with HDMI to a 16X9 TV. The TV is set to 16:9 and the Bolt is currently set to 1080P (60fps) and 1080P (passthrough only) and "panel" mode. Everything is fine except one or two (but NOT all) SD OTA broadcast channels are stretched horizontally to fill the frame instead of 4:3 pillar boxed. I thought it might be the way they were actually broadcast but when I view them live with an antenna into the TV they appear 4:3, pillar boxed correctly. 

The "zoom" button does nothing. With all video modes enabled, the stretched channel AND another non-stretched channel are both reported by my TV to be 720 X 480 @60Hz. 

Is this something that the Bolt is doing? Or Comcast?? And if so, why just one or two channels? Most SD channels display 100% correctly. Is it possible that this particular channel is broadcast in 480i (the original format I assume) and since the Bolt doesn't support 480i it is screwing things up converting it? 

And before you ask, enabling 720p and 1080i does not resolve it. 

What a complicated mess we have right now with all the video permutations in the wild today! 

Paul


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## pgoelz (May 1, 2005)

UPDATE:
Did some creative searching and it looks like the issue might be with Comcast. The symptoms fit a problem that was reported in a thread on a Comcast forum where Comcast set the 16:9 flag on SD content so the TV or STB stretched the 4:3 video to 16:9. 

Trouble is that I think it is near impossible to get through to anyone at Comcast who even would know what I am talking about. I wonder if the broadcaster could have better luck.... it is their signal that Comcast is screwing up, after all. 

Paul


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

pgoelz said:


> UPDATE:
> Did some creative searching and it looks like the issue might be with Comcast. The symptoms fit a problem that was reported in a thread on a Comcast forum where Comcast set the 16:9 flag on SD content so the TV or STB stretched the 4:3 video to 16:9.
> 
> Trouble is that I think it is near impossible to get through to anyone at Comcast who even would know what I am talking about. I wonder if the broadcaster could have better luck.... it is their signal that Comcast is screwing up, after all.
> ...


Is one of the channels MeTV? I think I noticed this recently when testing aspect mode on an SD channel and the impact on the Amazon app. What other channels are you seeing it on?

Scott


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

HerronScott said:


> Is one of the channels MeTV? I think I noticed this recently when testing aspect mode on an SD channel and the impact on the Amazon app. What other channels are you seeing it on?
> 
> Scott


The MeTV issue is different from the one reported by the OP and is definitely MeTV's doing, not Comcast's.

I corresponded with MeTV about this last August. Their explanation was this:



> What you are seeing is correct. We made some minor tweaks to enhance the viewing experience of those watching with widescreen televisions.


Basically, they are attempting to at least partially mollify the idiots who think that the sidebars are wasting space on their TVs. I say partially since the sidebars are still there on most shows, just somewhat smaller.

Calling this an "enhancement" is on a par with TiVo calling the program data source change an improvement.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

I have two Metv affiliates. One is perfect 4:3 and the other is slightly stretched. The slightly stretched one thinks it is full screen 480.


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

The problem could be either screwed up source transmission OR a defective Bolt. On my first Bolt, the zoom function was defective and worked exactly backwards: if the received signal was HD 16:9, the zoom button would change the aspect ratio (it should NOT, if connected to a 16:9 TV), but if the received signal was SD 4:3, the zoom button did absolutely nothing.

The key to diagnosing this as a defective Bolt is to see if it is 100% consistent on every SD channel vs HD channel, but you have to be careful and really know how the channel is broadcasting. For example, MeTV deliberately destroys their picture as noted above, and getTV LOOKS like it should be an SD 4:3 broadcast, but is really 720p 16:9 (thus the zoom function should NOT work on getTV). It helps to turn on all available video output modes and then see what the TV says it is getting from the TiVo.

Update with new information - I just found some new SD 480i channels that are sending out real 16:9 content that disables the TiVo zoom function, so now it seems we cannot know for sure when to expect this to work!


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## pgoelz (May 1, 2005)

Yeah, I thought it would be complicated  

No, the channel I am referring to is "This" on WDIV in Detroit. It looks perfect OTA direct antenna to TV, but stretched on the Comcast rebroadcast of the channel. The zoom button does nothing.... I assume because the Bolt is being told the channel is 16:9? 

Other SD channels behave correctly as far as I can see. There might be one or two more that are stretched, but the SD channels we actually watch are OK except for "This". 

Paul


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## pgoelz (May 1, 2005)

Well, I lucked into a back channel into Comcast and might actually get some action on this. Apparently I still had an open ticket from back in December when I was trying to get the cable card for the Bolt paired. Someone from "advanced repair" called me today and after I told him the cable card issue was resolved, we talked about the stretched "This" channel on the Detroit Comcast system (channel 294). He seemed to understand that A) it was OK OTA and B) it was NOT OK on the cable. He said he would look into it and call me back at some point. We'll see. 

Paul


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## pgoelz (May 1, 2005)

OK, Comcast has decided to roll a truck. Apparently this is the only way to address an configuration issue in the Comcast system.... they send a tech to make sure it isn't anything I am doing wrong. That tech then elevates the issue to a line tech, who then (we hope) elevates it further and at some point someone calls the head end like they should have done in the first place and asks them what is up with channel 294. I get it.... they don't want to waste time when it is actually a customer issue (and can then charge the customer for the truck roll). But it sure would have been faster to just call the danged head end and ask  

Ya know, it just occurred to me that I should drop into the Xfinity store (which is close to me) and have THEN tune to channel 294 and see what it looks like on Comcast equipment.......

Paul


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## pgoelz (May 1, 2005)

OK, Comcast has come and gone. He swears up and down that Comcast gets the "This" channel feed off satellite and does not change anything. But there is something different about the "This" channel as opposed to other local SD channels that is confusing Tivo. 

1. The Bolt (on Comcast) displays the "This" channel as if it was HD.... stretched horizontally and the zoom button is non-functional. 

2. The Roamio (OTA) displays the "This" channel the same as the Bolt on Comcast..... stretched horizontally and the zoom button is non-functional. 

3. The TV (OTA) displays the "This" channel as if it was SD.... pillar boxed. 

Since (according to the tech) the "This" channel arrives at Comcast via satellite, I have no idea who to talk to next  

Paul


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

I just wish the TV manufacturers would start providing an "unzoom" function on the TV so you could undo the stretching some channels insist on doing at the broadcast end. (And it would be even better if it could remember the setting on a per-channel basis so you didn't have to keep fooling with it).


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## aspexil (Oct 16, 2015)

Did you get a chance to swing by Comcast to see the channel on their equipment?


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## pgoelz (May 1, 2005)

aspexil said:


> Did you get a chance to swing by Comcast to see the channel on their equipment?


Not yet. I tend to believe the tech that they are simply retransmitting what "This" sends them via satellite. But yes it would be interesting to see what their STB does with channel 294.

I did send an Email to "This" via the "Programming" Email address on their "contact us" page. I'm not holding my breath but I think that is about the end of my options. Even if it IS a Comcast issue, the only way I can get anyone at Comcast to look at it is through a tech visit and the one they sent said it is not their issue. And in the final analysis, I DO at times watch "This" but not enough to get my knickers in much of a twist.

BTW, the tech was impressed that we were using Tivo instead of their "X1" DVR. No contest from what I can glean.....

Paul


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Satellite? I didn't realize that This was anything but local sub-channels. Just using that word makes me doubt that the tech has any idea what he is talking about. They get the feed from WDIV, not satellite.


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## pgoelz (May 1, 2005)

I honestly have no idea if he is correct or not. I asked him several times and he was adamant that the only local channels Comcast gets OTA are the PBS channels. Not sure about local news.... that might not be on the satellite. But "This" is a national network so it makes sense that Comcast AND WDIV get it via satellite. 

Paul


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

pgoelz said:


> I honestly have no idea if he is correct or not. I asked him several times and he was adamant that the only local channels Comcast gets OTA are the PBS channels. Not sure about local news.... that might not be on the satellite. But "This" is a national network so it makes sense that Comcast AND WDIV get it via satellite.
> 
> Paul


It makes no more sense than it does for any other national network. Comcast gets all local channels from the local channel. The tech is flat out wrong. If you talk to him again, ask him how the heck they get the local news off of satellite, not to mention local commercials within network shows?


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## alexb (Jan 4, 2003)

i have hidden all my SD channels, yet sometimes when i turn on my bolt+ and press the live TV button it seems to default to an SD channel that is stretched (compressed as it has added black bars above and below when it shouldn't?) though this is different to what you describe, i will take a closer look tonight (i also have comcast).


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## pgoelz (May 1, 2005)

lpwcomp said:


> It makes no more sense than it does for any other national network. Comcast gets all local channels from the local channel. The tech is flat out wrong. If you talk to him again, ask him how the heck they get the local news off of satellite, not to mention local commercials within network shows?


You make a good point. If I don't get a response to my Email to "This", I think I'm going to give up on this one. If I can't get a straight answer out of Comcast, This won't talk to me and I can't reach anyone who actually KNOWS how things work, I'm out of options. This one isn't worth my continued effort. At least not now.

Paul


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## pgoelz (May 1, 2005)

alexb said:


> i have hidden all my SD channels, yet sometimes when i turn on my bolt+ and press the live TV button it seems to default to an SD channel that is stretched (compressed as it has added black bars above and below when it shouldn't?) though this is different to what you describe, i will take a closer look tonight (i also have comcast).


Don't be fooled.... some SD channels carry HD content in letterbox format. Viewed correctly on a 16:9 TV, that content would have black top, bottom and sides. We live in VERY confusing times, what with varying aspect ratio, resolution and black levels.

Paul


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

pgoelz said:


> Don't be fooled.... some SD channels carry HD content in letterbox format. Viewed correctly on a 16:9 TV, that content would have black top, bottom and sides. We live in VERY confusing times, what with varying aspect ratio, resolution and black levels.
> 
> Paul


TV shows are fairly easy either 4:3 or 16:9. I guess a SD channel could choose to be broadcasting in 16:9 and adding in the side letter boxing itself for 4:3 shows or stretching them to cause a mess but I am not sure if any channel is doing that and if they are I certainly don't understand why.

Where it gets real crazy is movies, they can have almost any aspect ratio and broadcasting them in 4:3 with top letter boxing causes a 16:9 TV to add in the side letter boxing and it is very unlikely zoom would work correctly unless the movie's aspect ratio was 16:9.


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## alexb (Jan 4, 2003)

pgoelz said:


> Don't be fooled.... some SD channels carry HD content in letterbox format. Viewed correctly on a 16:9 TV, that content would have black top, bottom and sides. We live in VERY confusing times, what with varying aspect ratio, resolution and black levels.
> 
> Paul


You are correct, I had / have following issues:

I was getting SD 5 instead of HD105 because I forgot I set harmony up to go to live TV but it was sending the 105 too early, a delay fixed that
The channel was indeed an SD channel with 16x9 content, however TiVo seem to be ignoring the zoom level set in preferences and the last zoom setting I entered for that channel, it seems that is how comcast does all my local OTA channels.... I will look for a traditional 4:3 with 4:3 content.


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## alexb (Jan 4, 2003)

atmuscarella said:


> I guess a SD channel could choose to be broadcasting in 16:9 and adding in the side letter boxing itself for 4:3 shows or stretching them to cause a mess but I am not sure if any channel is doing that and if they are I certainly don't understand why.


My SD channels broadcast in 4:3 and add top and bottom letterboxing so they can have 16:9 content.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

pgoelz said:


> I honestly have no idea if he is correct or not. I asked him several times and he was adamant that the only local channels Comcast gets OTA are the PBS channels. Not sure about local news.... that might not be on the satellite. But "This" is a national network so it makes sense that Comcast AND WDIV get it via satellite.
> 
> Paul


This is no different than ABC or NBC. Cable systems get them through local channels not satellite.


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