# LOST "Catch-22" 4-18-07



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

"Are you two arguing about who's your favorite Other?"

Great line!


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

"If we don't play every 108 minutes, the island explodes!" 

Why were we supposed to assume that the chopper survivor would be Penny? We didn't even know it was a woman until they pulled off the mask. Instead of Penny, it was....................who???????

A parachute from a helicopter? WTH?


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Oh, another Stephen King reference. Hurley and Charlie are arguing over who would win, The Flash or Superman. Straight out of Stand By Me. (aka The Body.)


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

Before someone else says it, The picture on the Monks desk had the old lady that Desmond meet on the street earlier and was told about the guy with red shoes.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

No Rose, but we heard Bernard's name. And we now know he likes Phil Collins.

Not as good as the last Desmond episode, but that's a high bar.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

So, another vehicle crashes when approaching the island. Starting to think there is a force field around the perimeter of the island.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

NatasNJ said:


> Before someone else says it, The picture on the Monks desk had the old lady that Desmond meet on the street earlier and was told about the guy with red shoes.


Thanks. I figured that was a significant picture, but I didn't see who it was.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

This episode marks the television debut of Brian K. Vaughan, one of the hottest comic book writers in recent years (Y the Last Man, Ex Machina, Runaways)...AND THEY MISSPELLED HIS NAME!


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> This episode marks the television debut of Brian K. Vaughan, one of the hottest comic book writers in recent years (Y the Last Man, Ex Machina, Runaways)...AND THEY MISSPELLED HIS NAME!


I was just about to post this-BKV is truly a genius. Ex Machina is one of the best pieces of American fiction in years.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Good episode.

We have learned the origin of Desmond's "Brother" salutation.

Also ... has a week passed already since Sawyer was banned from using nicknames? He called Kate "Freckles" many times.

Finally, do you think Jack gave the spoon Kate licked to Juliet, or did he use that one himself?


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

drew2k said:


> Also ... has a week passed already since Sawyer was banned from using nicknames? He called Kate "Freckles" many times.


She commented about that, but he said it didn't count for her since she wasn't there when he lost the bet.


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

Was that supposed to have been Ruth at the end or some other person we don't know?


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

scottykempf said:


> A parachute from a helicopter? WTH?


It wasn't so much the parachute that had me going WTH, but the helicopter. What's the range of the average chopper?


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

drew2k said:


> Also ... has a week passed already since Sawyer was banned from using nicknames? He called Kate "Freckles" many times.


Kate called him on that, and he said that since she wasn't present when the agreement was made, she was exempted. Since she doesn't mind "freckles" anyway, this just drew a flirty smile/smirk from her.

So, I think it's been less than a week.

GREAT episode BTW.

The girl who parachuted out of the helicopter... Not Penny (obviously), but *someone who knows Desmond!!*

She said his name, and then lost consciousness.

Someone working for Penny, perhaps? Someone who Desmond met while he and Penny were together?


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

mqpickles said:


> She commented about that, but he said it didn't count for her since she wasn't there when he lost the bet.


I can't believe I missed this conversation! Was it when Sawyer wandered into her tent while she was dressing? I might have missed everything that was said ...


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

drew2k said:


> I can't believe I missed this conversation! Was it when Sawyer wandered into her tent while she was dressing? I might have missed everything that was said ...


You got it.  It was actually as they were leaving the tent, so she had her shirt on at that point. Close enough. (I have one thing in common with Tom. Kate's not my type.)


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Fish Man said:


> The girl who parachuted out of the helicopter... Not Penny (obviously), but *someone who knows Desmond!!*
> 
> She said his name, and then lost consciousness.
> 
> Someone working for Penny, perhaps? Someone who Desmond met while he and Penny were together?


I'm guessing someone who works for Penny. That's why she had the picture stuck in the book, to refer to so she would recognize him when she found him.



Spoiler



Her name is Naomi. Can't remember where I read that.


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

astrohip said:


> It wasn't so much the parachute that had me going WTH, but the helicopter. What's the range of the average chopper?


Helicopters can be launched from large ships.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Great episode.

Several thoughts:

1) Now that we actually saw a picture of the ring-store lady in a real flashback, we know the last Desmond flashback episode (that she was in) wasn't just all a dream he had when he turned the key.. she's real.

2) It was great to see a Charlie-death-sequence-through-the-eyes-of-Desmond. It was even cooler that the first two times we heard about we DIDN'T see, giving us time to imagine what it's like.

3) Good to see yet another example of Hurley, master manipulator. 

4) When Desmond was at the very end of his vow of silence and the guy was finally getting around to telling him that he was "in", and then Desmond finally said "Thank you", I joked "No!!! Too soon, you were supposed to go longer..", and it made me think of this:





5) Whomever said we'd never see the pingpong table again was wrong.

6) Really enjoyed seeing the origin of Broothahh

7) Liked the smile on Desmond's face when Charlie asked if he could bring his guitar.

Great episode. Glad I hadn't watched any previews for this week - didn't even know it was a Desmond episode!


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

What about when Sawyer asked Kate about seeing Jack and Juliet together? 
"You don't need an excuse, you just have to ask." or something like that. :up: :up:


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

jkeegan said:


> Great episode. Glad I hadn't watched any previews for this week - didn't even know it was a Desmond episode!


I've been avoiding the previews for several weeks, and I am very happy to be going into these episodes with no particular expectations.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

JKeegan said:


> Great episode. Glad I hadn't watched any previews for this week - didn't even know it was a Desmond episode!





hefe said:


> I've been avoiding the previews for several weeks, and I am very happy to be going into these episodes with no particular expectations.


Good thinking, guys. I'm wishing I had resisted the spoilers. (Fortunately, I'll probably forget most of them in the next day or two.)


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I was very much enjoying the whole Sawyer/Kate/Jack bits. In fact a nice play on all the characters involved tonight. The ping pong game was fun and Jin telling ghost stories was fun, Sawyer and Kate having sex again was fun. Yep. Even Desmond being fired as a monk. 

I want to watch it again and pay more attention to some of the stuff. But, it was enjoyable.


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

Did we ever hear the name of the monk Desmond was interacting with?


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

I like the whole "Catch-22" aspect to Desmond - he is destined for future things, as everyone keeps telling him, but he keeps trying to change the future. Finally we got to see a glimpse of what his flashes are like. 

I assume the book from the backpack was a version of Catch-22 ... anyone know which language? And what else was in that backpack? Nothing looked clear to me.


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

Delta13 said:


> I assume the book from the backpack was a version of Catch-22 ... anyone know which language?


Portuguese, which fits with the monitoring station at the close of last season.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I assumed german for some reason although I have no reason to because it was clearly not when I paused it and looked more closely.

That girl looked like alex in one shot, but then not so much in the next.

Didn't flash win in one of the foot races with supes and then it was a draw in another?


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> Great episode.
> 
> 1) Now that we actually saw a picture of the ring-store lady in a real flashback, we know the last Desmond flashback episode (that she was in) wasn't just all a dream he had when he turned the key.. she's real.


Not necessarily proof. She could have just been a face he'd seen in the past (in the photo) he conjured up in the time travel dream (if it was a dream, I don't know one way or the other). Hasn't that ever happened to you? Someone you barely know or have just seen somewhere shows up in a dream?


jkeegan said:


> 4) When Desmond was at the very end of his vow of silence and the guy was finally getting around to telling him that he was "in", and then Desmond finally said "Thank you", I joked "No!!! Too soon, you were supposed to go longer..", and it made me think of this:


Hah... I yelled "Didn't say 'Simon Says', you're out!" at the TV when Desmond said "Thank you."


Dennis said:


> Did we ever hear the name of the monk Desmond was interacting with?


"Brother?"


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

drew2k said:


> Finally, do you think Jack gave the spoon Kate licked to Juliet, or did he use that one himself?


Ahh, spooning. That move to 10pm gives the writers more freedom, eh? They even added a zipper sound during the Kate-Sawyer tussle, to help those who were apparently unclear as to exactly what was going on in his tent. 

And c'mon, Jack's a doctor. He gave the spoon to Juliet. Germs!


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## Sir_Q (Jun 27, 2002)

We looking forward to Charlie dieing and not coming back this time. :-/


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

Answering my own question -- we never hear the monk's name, but the press release for the episode calls him "Brother Campbell".

Oh -- loved Jin's flashlight-under-the-face-all-in-Korean campfire ghost story!


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

So do any sites have the English translation of Jin's ghost story yet?

Greg


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## BriGuy20 (Aug 4, 2005)

I wasn't blown away by the episode. Good but not great. Lost's great episodes more than make up for the average ones, though.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> Didn't flash win in one of the foot races with supes and then it was a draw in another?


Pre-Crisis, I think they usually tied.
Post-Crisis, Wally West beat Supes in a foot race.

More than you ever wanted to know about Flash Vs. Superman.

BTW, good Desmond episode. And who is that mystery woman?


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

More Book of Genesis. Last week it was Jacob and Rachel, this week it's Desmond as the reluctant Abraham and Charlie as Isaac. Abraham passed God's test, but as Brother Campbell said maybe Desmond underestimates the value of sacrifice.

Overall really good writing in this episode. I liked these two exchanges:

Desmond: I was supposed to leave everything that mattered behind, sacrifice all of it for a greater calling.
Ex-Fiance: Well it's a good thing a bloody shepherd didn't help you up, or I suppose you'd be off with the sheep, wouldn't you?

Of course that's exactly what will happen. Jack Shephard is the shepherd, and now Desmond is off with the sheep.

Desmond: What am I supposed to do now?
Brother Campbell: Whatever comes next.

This right before the Charlie sacrifice scene. Desmond has seen the future and knows what comes next.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

NatasNJ said:


> Before someone else says it, The picture on the Monks desk had the old lady that Desmond meet on the street earlier and was told about the guy with red shoes.


Yeah, I spotted that right away because the picture looked so horribly fake and they lingered on it so long.  I wonder if that has any significance.

Decent episode, but not up to par with the last few week's worth.


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## lordargent (Nov 12, 2002)

Noooo, I thought the addict was gone 

/death list
1) Charlie
2) Claire
3) The Baby


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

scottykempf said:


> Oh, another Stephen King reference. Hurley and Charlie are arguing over who would win, The Flash or Superman. Straight out of Stand By Me. (aka The Body.)


Both the movie and short story were great.


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

Jin's ghost story was classic.

I guess the big development that the producers were touting was the woman and the chopper. I hope they don't let her die though.

This show is amazing. There are tons of different storylines going on at once, not one of them close to a resolution, and I don't care. I'm just enjoying the ride.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

scottykempf said:


> Oh, another Stephen King reference. Hurley and Charlie are arguing over who would win, The Flash or Superman. Straight out of Stand By Me. (aka The Body.)


Good catch - And along with that - 4 guys on a mission, the whistling, the campfire ghost story telling, the someone almost dieing, and the body. Once I was reminded of the short story, it all fits.

I was also thinking "poor Desmond, always drinking something too expensive for him, first the scotch, now the wine, when will they give him a break?". I was waiting to hear that the wine cost 108 dollars (or quid or whatever) and actually went back and replayed it to check.


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## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

Charlie getting the arrow in the neck was crazy...


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## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

So I'm wondering, if charlie had gotten the arrow would it have been Penny in the chopper?


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

danplaysbass said:


> So I'm wondering, if charlie had gotten the arrow would it have been Penny in the chopper?


An arrow in Charlie is worth a Penny in a chopper!

That almost sounds like" a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush".


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

Here's the thing. Desmond saw Charlie get killed with the arrow. He also saw Charlie and Jin holding the parachute. Didn't he know that he had to save Charlie in order for him to hold the parachute? Or did he save him because he didn't want that on his concience?


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

scottykempf said:


> A parachute from a helicopter? WTH?


I'm more interested in why a helicopter pilot was wearing an air mask and had a sun visor on when flying at night. Was she also in a high altitude pressure suit? I suppose it's mostly just a plot device to conceal the identity of who's underneath, but still was *way* too odd.


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## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

There are some military helicopters with the capability of emergency ejection. First the rotor blades shoot off then the pilot ejects. Since Penny seems very wealthy and connected it's not to much of a stretch to think that she may have a private heli with this feature.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

danplaysbass said:


> Charlie getting the arrow in the neck was crazy...


That was just TERRIBLE writing. This show has just JUMPED THE SHARK.

After all that talk about Superman and the Flash, then they slip in Green Arrow with NO FORESHADOWING AT ALL!

What a bunch of hacks...obviously they're just making it up as they go along.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

danplaysbass said:


> So I'm wondering, if charlie had gotten the arrow would it have been Penny in the chopper?


My thought exactly. Shrodinger's Penny.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That was just TERRIBLE writing. This show has just JUMPED THE SHARK.
> 
> After all that talk about Superman and the Flash, then they slip in Green Arrow with NO FORESHADOWING AT ALL!
> 
> What a bunch of hacks...obviously they're just making it up as they go along.


You forgot the smiley :up:


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

mqpickles said:


> I'm guessing someone who works for Penny. That's why she had the picture stuck in the book, to refer to so she would recognize him when she found him.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Someone wondered if it was Ruth? Ruth was Desmond's previous fiance. However, if the spoiler above is correct and that's her name, then


Spoiler



it's another Bilbical reference. Naomi was the mother-in-law of Ruth.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

wprager said:


> You forgot the smiley :up:


If it was necessary, then the world is in sadder shape than I thought.

Then again, I am constantly learning that no matter how sad a shape I think the world is in, it turns out to be in sadder shape than I had thought...


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Do you think someone (Jack?) should tell Kate that women who get pregnant on this island tend to have a rough time of it? Or did Sawyer also find some Widmore condoms that he keeps in his stash?


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## mark1278 (Nov 6, 2006)

_That was just TERRIBLE writing. This show has just JUMPED THE SHARK.

After all that talk about Superman and the Flash, then they slip in Green Arrow with NO FORESHADOWING AT ALL!

What a bunch of hacks...obviously they're just making it up as they go along._

STOP watching if you are this irritated. Seriously.

They mentioned a food drop in this episode. I wonder how it's being delivered if no one can land safely on the island. I'm really excited about the finale because I think that it'll be great.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

Fish Man said:


> The girl who parachuted out of the helicopter... Not Penny (obviously), but *someone who knows Desmond!!*
> 
> She said his name, and then lost consciousness.
> 
> Someone working for Penny, perhaps? Someone who Desmond met while he and Penny were together?





Delta13 said:


> I like the whole "Catch-22" aspect to Desmond - he is destined for future things, as everyone keeps telling him, but he keeps trying to change the future. Finally we got to see a glimpse of what his flashes are like.





danplaysbass said:


> So I'm wondering, if charlie had gotten the arrow would it have been Penny in the chopper?


danplaysbass, I am thinking along those same lines. Maybe even to the point that Desmond has monkeyed with things so much, "Penny" is now a different person. IE, that was Peny, but she has a different manifestation in this timeline.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Interesting episode...
Dessi gets down with the bru-thas
Kate gets wicked needy and robs Sawyer of 'essential bodily fluids'
We get to see the frakin' Hobbit die horribly, not just once but time and again
Any episode with Penny is worth watching
The island obeys the Law of Conservation of Babes - one gets killed, another appears to take her place!


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> If it was necessary, then the world is in sadder shape than I thought.





mark1278 said:


> STOP watching if you are this irritated. Seriously.


Time to rethink your view on the world, Rob.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

My thought is that the girl in the helicopter works/worked for Dharma and that Desmond knows her through there (now their could be a Penny/Dharma connection). This is based on:



Spoiler



Next week's preview shows lots of Dharma stuff.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> Time to rethink your view on the world, Rob.


I weep for the future.


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

I think the obvious answer is that Penny hired a group to check out the magnetic anomoly that she was looking for. She hired those Potuguese guys to look for the anomoly, now she hired a rescue team. The picture was for the team so that they recognized Desmond.

Someone after the first Desmond episode this season made the prediction that during Desmonds time in the past (or a future jump?), Desmond tells Penny that he must go, but that she should look for a magnetic anomoly which he will create in the future. Basically asking her to rescue him. This would explain why Penny is looking for it at the end of Season 2.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

gchance said:


> So do any sites have the English translation of Jin's ghost story yet?
> 
> Greg


The way he held up his sleeve at the end, I bet it's the old urban legend about "the hook."


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I don't think there's any validity to speculation that desmond changed things with penny. In this episode he said that he is a coward and that's why he's not with her, which implies to me that he left her unannounced and not had some intricate plan to save the universe with her help.


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> I don't think there's any validity to speculation that desmond changed things with penny. In this episode he said that he is a coward and that's why he's not with her, which implies to me that he left her unannounced and not had some intricate plan to save the universe with her help.


Maybe left a note?


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I weep for the future.


Weep a little for the present too, while you're at it.


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## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

TAsunder said:


> I don't think there's any validity to speculation that desmond changed things with penny. In this episode he said that he is a coward and that's why he's not with her, which implies to me that he left her unannounced and not had some intricate plan to save the universe with her help.


I'm not sure you understand what we're saying. I think that by desmond saving charlie he may have changed the future (think of the Back to the Future movies). In other words, if he had let charlie die, it may be possible that it would have been penny in the parachute instead of mystery girl.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

danplaysbass said:


> I'm not sure you understand what we're saying. I think that by desmond saving charlie he may have changed the future (think of the Back to the Future movies). In other words, if he had let charlie die, it may be possible that it would have been penny in the parachute instead of mystery girl.


Right, I was responding to a different post. I don't agree or disagree with your point, which also crossed my mind.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

So, Penny sends the babe pilot to act as bait to attract Desmond?


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## Jericho Dog (Feb 10, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That was just TERRIBLE writing. This show has just JUMPED THE SHARK.
> 
> After all that talk about Superman and the Flash, then they slip in Green Arrow with NO FORESHADOWING AT ALL!
> 
> What a bunch of hacks...obviously they're just making it up as they go along.


Aha!
The truth finally comes out!

You've felt that way for a long time and wouldn't admit it!!

Good for you for coming out of the closet with your Lost-hate.

NTTAWWT....


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## Jericho Dog (Feb 10, 2006)

Lee L said:


> danplaysbass, I am thinking along those same lines. Maybe even to the point that Desmond has monkeyed with things so much, "Penny" is now a different person. IE, that was Peny, but she has a different manifestation in this timeline.


Two people still had the pic of Des and Penny, including the "new" Penny if that's what you're saying.....

I don't think so.

Good try though...


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

danplaysbass said:


> I'm not sure you understand what we're saying. I think that by desmond saving charlie he may have changed the future (think of the Back to the Future movies). In other words, if he had let charlie die, it may be possible that it would have been penny in the parachute instead of mystery girl.


That's what my wife was saying too, but that just doesn't feel right...the whole idea of changing the future is that you do something that has a direct effect on a future event, and the summation of changes causes a certain thing to happen/not happen/happen differently. Like in Back to the Future, McFly has to make sure he didn't cause his parents not to get together. I don't see how Charlie dying or not at that boobie trap, after the helicopter crash, would affect who was in the helicopter. If that's the case, there has to be quite a convoluted reason.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Perhaps the 'magic box' is a reference to the box in the Schrodinger's Cat quantum theory conundrum. Future potential realities spread over all possibilities and probabilities until resolved. And perhaps time is not the linear phenomenon we perceive. Desmond may have acquired and manifest an ability to interact in a manner analogous to the 'box.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

Jericho Dog said:


> Two people still had the pic of Des and Penny, including the "new" Penny if that's what you're saying.....
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> Good try though...


Except we only saw that picture _before_ Desmond saved Charlie. If we look at it again now that Desmond has changed the timeline will it be the old Penny or the new mystery-girl "Penny"???

FWIW, I hate "change the timeline" stories because they make absolutely no sense to me, so I actually hope this isn't where they're going with the story.


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## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

hefe said:


> That's what my wife was saying too, but that just doesn't feel right...the whole idea of changing the future is that you do something that has a direct effect on a future event, and the summation of changes causes a certain thing to happen/not happen/happen differently. Like in Back to the Future, McFly has to make sure he didn't cause his parents not to get together. I don't see how Charlie dying or not at that boobie trap, after the helicopter crash, would affect who was in the helicopter. If that's the case, there has to be quite a convoluted reason.


I absolutely agree with this, except this is LOST. They can do whatever they want.


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## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

Just some random observations and responses.

Brother Campbell (the head monk) said they had bottled 108 cases of wine.

The hula-girl was the same as one Hurley had on the dashboard of his Hummer back in one of his flashbacks.

The sat-phone was showing good reception but it was also displaying an "Internal Error" message before it shut off. (Or did Hurley shut it off deliberately? Hmmm...)

The parachutist is played by Marsha Thompson. She obviously recognized Desmond and, assuming that the backpack was hers, had a picture of Desmond and Penny. We can presume that she is working for Penny, who is following up on the anomaly the guys at the listening station detected at the end of season 2.


Desmond talks to the head monk about the biblical story of Abraham and Issac (where God asks Abraham to sacrifice Issac to prove his faith). In this episode, Desmond has a vision of Charlie being killed and seems to think that if he follows the vision exactly (thus letting Charlie die) that he will find Penny. In the end, he saves Charlie's life.

Locke, back in season 1, had a vision in which Boone is killed. But, when the situation arrives, he allows Boone to die. He even later says that Boone was a sacrifice demanded by the Island. Connection or coincidence?


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## Jericho Dog (Feb 10, 2006)

bdlucas said:


> Except we only saw that picture _before_ Desmond saved Charlie. If we look at it again now that Desmond has changed the timeline will it be the old Penny or the new mystery-girl "Penny"???


But they found a picture in the book from the backpack.

That was after Charlie should have died.


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## 7thton (Mar 3, 2005)

It looked especially bad in HD.



MickeS said:


> Yeah, I spotted that right away because the picture looked so horribly fake and they lingered on it so long.  I wonder if that has any significance.


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## Tsiehta (Jul 22, 2002)

mark1278 said:


> _That was just TERRIBLE writing. This show has just JUMPED THE SHARK.
> 
> After all that talk about Superman and the Flash, then they slip in Green Arrow with NO FORESHADOWING AT ALL!
> 
> ...


lmao!!!!!!


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

7thton said:


> It looked especially bad in HD.


I noticed it as well, it was obviously for all of us to see, but it looked like a cheap Photoshopped picture from fark.com. REALLY bad, like they took a snapshot of the monk and stuck a posed studio shot of the woman onto it.

I do have a problem with the picture of Desmond & Penny though. I haven't rewatched, but when the guy took their picture, it was an instant camera. He gave them the photo right then. There was ONLY ONE. Yet Desmond has his (folded in half), while the one in the book is a perfect one. Where did the second picture come from? Either this is a plot-point or again, continuity's screwed up.

As far as changing time a la Back to the Future... the actions don't have to be directly related. This isn't speculation, just an example, but try this... supposedly Charlie's fate is to die, and no matter how hard Desmond tries, the universe will right itself. That being the case, what if the universe replaced Penny with this other woman, who will later be involved in Charlie's death?

The point is it doesn't matter HOW the future is changed, it will lead to Charlie's death, if you follow what they've established. That may or may not be where the writers are going with it.

Greg


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

gchance said:


> I do have a problem with the picture of Desmond & Penny though. I haven't rewatched, but when the guy took their picture, it was an instant camera. He gave them the photo right then. There was ONLY ONE. Yet Desmond has his (folded in half), while the one in the book is a perfect one. Where did the second picture come from? Either this is a plot-point or again, continuity's screwed up.


I thought the same thing. I'll have to rewatch to make sure it's the same photo, but assuming it is, how did the parachutist get another copy? Perhaps the first time it was taken, Penny kept it - then Desmond kept it during his deja vu episode...or vice versa.


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Delta13 said:


> Weep a little for the present too, while you're at it.


In Mark1278's defense, Rob had me going for the first line, and I should have known better. I was pretty alarmed because he'd never said anything like that before. Then LOL with the second line. (Nicely done, Rob.)

Also, as a new guy around here, it's not surprising that Mark would be less able to recognize Rob was teasing.

Then there's the fact that most of it reads very much like some serious posts we've seen around here. (Again, nicely done, Rob.)

On another note, put me in the camp that does not think Des caused Penny to be replaced with another gal. That wouldn't be changing the future; it would be changing the past because by time Des saved Charlie, the woman was already hanging in the tree. (Reminiscent of Charlie first season by the way, Ben second season, maybe more.) She would have boarded that helicopter much earlier.

tanstaafl -- Thanks about hula girl. I thought it was a reference, but couldn't place it.


----------



## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

scottykempf said:


> What about when Sawyer asked Kate about seeing Jack and Juliet together?
> "You don't need an excuse, you just have to ask." or something like that. :up: :up:


"You don't have to _use_ me, Freckles..."


----------



## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

scottykempf said:


> So, another vehicle crashes when approaching the island. Starting to think there is a force field around the perimeter of the island.


Yeah, the track record for vehicles arriving on the Island isn't good.

The Black Rock - Artz said that a tsunami could have carried it inland, but it still wrecked there.
The Drug Smuggler's plane - Still no clue as to how it got to the Island from Nigeria.
Henry Gale's balloon - It crashed for some reason
Rousseau's ship - Crashed for some reason
Desmond's sailboat - Crashed in a storm then (apparently) couldn't leave
"Adam" and "Eve" - Still don't know where they came from, but we'll throw them in too.
Flight 815 - Obvious

Maybe that's why the Others come and go to the Island by submarine. Maybe you can approach the Island underwater (and maybe fly over it at a high altitude, hence the food drops and the high altitude gear the newcomer was wearing) but not approach it safely at low altitude or on the surface. Hmmm...


----------



## acej80 (Jan 19, 2003)

gchance said:


> I do have a problem with the picture of Desmond & Penny though. I haven't rewatched, but when the guy took their picture, it was an instant camera. He gave them the photo right then. There was ONLY ONE. Yet Desmond has his (folded in half), while the one in the book is a perfect one. Where did the second picture come from? Either this is a plot-point or again, continuity's screwed up.
> Greg


I don't think there is any significance to this. Good color copiers can make excellent copies of photos, so even though it was an instant camera, there can be copies of the photo.


----------



## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

acej80 said:


> I don't think there is any significance to this. Good color copiers can make excellent copies of photos, so even though it was an instant camera, there can be copies of the photo.


Yes, but Desmond left Penny right when the photo was taken, and took it with him.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

acej80 said:


> I don't think there is any significance to this. Good color copiers can make excellent copies of photos, so even though it was an instant camera, there can be copies of the photo.


Except Penny would never have been able to make the copy. Remember, she dumped Des moments after the shot was taken, because that's when he started waffling and telling her he wasn't good enough for her. She never had possession of the picture to make a color copy, and they were broken up before Des would have had a chance to make it. The next time Des & Penny saw each other was when he was jogging up and down the bleachers with Jacko.

Greg


----------



## MegaHertz67 (Apr 18, 2005)

acej80 said:


> I don't think there is any significance to this. Good color copiers can make excellent copies of photos, so even though it was an instant camera, there can be copies of the photo.


A digital scan and a decent color printer can do the same.


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

gchance said:


> Except Penny would never have been able to make the copy. Remember, she dumped Des moments after the shot was taken, because that's when he started waffling and telling her he wasn't good enough for her. She never had possession of the picture to make a color copy, and they were broken up before Des would have had a chance to make it. The next time Des & Penny saw each other was when he was jogging up and down the bleachers with Jacko.
> 
> Greg


At the end of Season 2, we see Penny being awakened by a call from the Portuguese guys. Wasn't the photo on the night stand?

Not that it proves or disproves anything. Just trying to remember when/where we've already seen the pic.


----------



## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

"Ardil-22" is indeed Portuguese for "Catch-22" which kind of blows my alternate theory about the parachutist out of the water, but I'll advance it anyway...

Perhaps the parachutist was working for the Others and was bringing the dossier to Ben. We already know they have the worldwide resources to compile these incredibly detailed dossiers on all of the survivors, which gives Ben the "exploitable weakness" for each of them. The Others knew Desmond was in that hatch for years(?)- they could observe it from Pearl - but since it was well-fortified they probably never attempted to infiltrate it and thus couldn't identify him to collect data. That is, until they stole his boat from Sayid, Sun & Jin.

Then again, if they are telling the truth about not being able to communicate with the outside world since the anomaly, how would they tap those resources?


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

gchance said:


> Except Penny would never have been able to make the copy. Remember, she dumped Des moments after the shot was taken, because that's when he started waffling and telling her he wasn't good enough for her. She never had possession of the picture to make a color copy, and they were broken up before Des would have had a chance to make it. The next time Des & Penny saw each other was when he was jogging up and down the bleachers with Jacko.
> 
> Greg


Yeah but desmond did not immediately teleport to the island. There was plenty of time for her to hire PIs and other snoops. Plus maybe Desmond himself made a copy and didn't take the copy with him, and the copy is therefore from his apartment after the fact.


----------



## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

I really don't think there's anything significant about Penny having a copy of the picture. We saw a copy of it on her bedside table back in the season finale of second season after all.

We know Penny had access to Desmond's stuff at some point after they broke up. (Maybe when she went to his apartment to get her things. Or she could possibly have somehow gained access to his personal belongings while he was in prison.) Remember, she wrote a letter to him and left it in his book. Presumably she could have taken the photo and made a copy of it at that same time.

I sort of look at it like I do the photo of the clock lady on the head monk's desk in this episode. Yes, the picture is an obvious (badly done) photoshop, but I don't think we're supposed to be wondering "Why does the monk have a photoshopped picture of himself with someone on his desk?" I think either we're just supposed to go "Oh, the head monk knows the clock lady" or just accept it as another easter egg left there by TPTB for us to find. I don't think that the fact that it is photoshopped is supposed to be significant and I don't think the question of how Penny got a copy of the photo is supposed to be significant either. She just does.


----------



## pcguru83 (Jan 18, 2005)

This really means nothing, but I thought it was interesting nonetheless. The interface of the Sat phone looks strikingly similar to that of Apple's upcoming iPhone. Even with the brief flash we saw, I thought so during the episode. After seeing this screenshot, the similarities are even more striking:










The Home icon on the phone is the _exact_ same icon used for the Home folder in OS X.


----------



## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

gchance said:


> I noticed it as well, it was obviously for all of us to see, but it looked like a cheap Photoshopped picture from fark.com. REALLY bad, like they took a snapshot of the monk and stuck a posed studio shot of the woman onto it.
> 
> I do have a problem with the picture of Desmond & Penny though. I haven't rewatched, but when the guy took their picture, it was an instant camera. He gave them the photo right then. There was ONLY ONE. Yet Desmond has his (folded in half), while the one in the book is a perfect one. Where did the second picture come from? Either this is a plot-point or again, continuity's screwed up.
> 
> ...


This is kind of a Final Destination reference...


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

danplaysbass said:


> This is kind of a Final Destination reference...


That's great if you've seen Final Destination, which I haven't. I suppose that just goes to show that I was right in not watching it, thinking it was an old concept that's been overused.

BTW the first thing I thought when I saw that sat phone was iPhone.

Greg


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

hefe said:


> I've been avoiding the previews for several weeks, and I am very happy to be going into these episodes with no particular expectations.


Agreed....that's why I've been sworn in as a card-carrying member of the Spoiler Police.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> If it was necessary, then the world is in sadder shape than I thought.
> 
> Then again, I am constantly learning that no matter how sad a shape I think the world is in, it turns out to be in sadder shape than I had thought...


Then stop thinking it's bad - you're repeatedly making it worse! %#$%ing feedback loops!

Emo Phillips:

So I picked up a pamphlet, and it said "By the time you finish reading this, someone in the world will have died from.." .. so I stopped reading right there!


----------



## MegaHertz67 (Apr 18, 2005)

philw1776 said:


> Perhaps the 'magic box' is a reference to the box in the Schrodinger's Cat quantum theory conundrum. Future potential realities spread over all possibilities and probabilities until resolved. And perhaps time is not the linear phenomenon we perceive. Desmond may have acquired and manifest an ability to interact in a manner analogous to the 'box.


Wow...well-read, smart people scare me sometimes.

There are so many levels upon which this show attempts to work. There are literal references, religious references, scientific references, cultural references...to multiple cultures. They work in mythology, both urban and classical. They tell stories in multiple time lines per character, per episode. They tell us tales about boogey men (the talies, the others, Mittelos Bioscience, the Dharma initiative, the Hanso Foundation) and then tells us tales from the boogeyman's point of view.

And then we scream and jump on a single inconsistency that we see in an episode, and some one inevitably calls for the shark and whether it has indeed been jumped. I don't think it has, but I can understand viewers being frustrated by the show.

I, for one, am enjoying the ride. I agree that the pacing and content of the episodes can be inconsistent from week to week, but imo that is part of the fun. The next few weeks will certainly be interesting.

And count me in as one who has stopped reading spoilers and seeking out info about next week or next season. I want to be surprised and have those "oooooh, cool" moments that seem to come along fairly often in an hour of Lost.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

At least they had the guys on the beach ask the same question about ejecting from a helicopter that's been asked here. So hopefully there will be an answer to that.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

tanstaafl said:


> I really don't think there's anything significant about Penny having a copy of the picture. We saw a copy of it on her bedside table back in the season finale of second season after all.


Indeed.


----------



## kcarl75 (Oct 23, 2002)

Anyone care to speculate what the bright burst of light on Hurley's face, during their hike in the woods signified?


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

kcarl75 said:


> Anyone care to speculate what the bright burst of light on Hurley's face, during their hike in the woods signified?


It wasn't light on Hurley's face, it was a lens flare. You get that on a camera lens sometimes when a bright light shines directly on a lens. The light is from behind Hurley.










In any case, I think it was just a little joke. At the moment it "flashes," Hurley is saying, "In case you haven't noticed, dude, I'm not exactly the Flash."


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Another thing I thought about last night:

Desmond went from:

Needing to stay on top of pushing a button very regularly or a horrible thing would happen.

to:

Needing to stay with Charlie and save him regularly or a horrible thing would happen.

Just like with the button, he can't go away from it (Charlie) very far, or stop paying attention for too long, or he fails.

It's like when the hatch was destroyed, the island (or something) came up with a replacement test/challenge for him, just like when Hurley gave away the food, new food drops came, or when Charlie burned the last of his drugs, they found a plane filled with more drugs.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

tanstaafl said:


> Desmond talks to the head monk about the biblical story of Abraham and Issac (where God asks Abraham to sacrifice Issac to prove his faith). In this episode, Desmond has a vision of Charlie being killed and seems to think that if he follows the vision exactly (thus letting Charlie die) that he will find Penny. In the end, he saves Charlie's life.
> 
> Locke, back in season 1, had a vision in which Boone is killed. But, when the situation arrives, he allows Boone to die. He even later says that Boone was a sacrifice demanded by the Island. Connection or coincidence?


Good observation..


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

tanstaafl said:


> Maybe that's why the Others come and go to the Island by submarine. Maybe you can approach the Island underwater (and maybe fly over it at a high altitude, hence the food drops and the high altitude gear the newcomer was wearing) but not approach it safely at low altitude or on the surface. Hmmm...


Certainly makes one think back to those pictures from "The Other xx Days" of a black smudge of something flying in just before the plane crashes into the water..... Maybe the black smoke can't go underwater? Maybe the black smoke was driven up into the sky to avoid Desmond's lack-of-button-pushing magnetic frenzy, and while up there it found a plane to attack? Maybe the black smoke - a defense mechanism as Danielle called it - attacks all incoming vehicles it can find/reach?


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

tanstaafl said:


> Locke, back in season 1, had a vision in which Boone is killed. But, when the situation arrives, he allows Boone to die. He even later says that Boone was a sacrifice demanded by the Island. Connection or coincidence?


Did he?

I recall the vision or dream where he sees a bloodied, but not dead Boone saying "Teresa falls up the stairs, Teresa falls down the stairs" or something like that. I don't recall if there was anything Locke saw that specifically would lead him to believe that going into the plane would kill him. Or I could be forgetting something...


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

tanstaafl said:


> I really don't think there's anything significant about Penny having a copy of the picture. We saw a copy of it on her bedside table back in the season finale of second season after all.
> 
> We know Penny had access to Desmond's stuff at some point after they broke up. (Maybe when she went to his apartment to get her things. Or she could possibly have somehow gained access to his personal belongings while he was in prison.) Remember, she wrote a letter to him and left it in his book. Presumably she could have taken the photo and made a copy of it at that same time.


This seems like a very plausible explanation.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

pcguru83 said:


> This really means nothing, but I thought it was interesting nonetheless. The interface of the Sat phone looks strikingly similar to that of Apple's upcoming iPhone. Even with the brief flash we saw, I thought so during the episode. After seeing this screenshot, the similarities are even more striking:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There it is people.
Definite proof of a time warp!
An Apple iPhone product from 2007 manifested in 2004.


----------



## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

Does anyone else think that Desmond has replaced Walt as "the key" on the show? Remember back in season one the producers said Walt - and his "abilities" to visualize something and it happening - was the key? Now that it seems "Waaaaaalt" and Michael ("Daaaaaaad") are gone for good (riddance!), Desmond has visions that come to pass - although he can change the outcome.

It will be interesting to follow to the end. Desmond is one of my favorite characters now, although last night's episode was just average.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

MegaHertz67 said:


> ...I, for one, am enjoying the ride. I agree that the pacing and content of the episodes can be inconsistent from week to week, but imo that is part of the fun. The next few weeks will certainly be interesting.
> 
> And count me in as one who has stopped reading spoilers and seeking out info about next week or next season. I want to be surprised and have those "oooooh, cool" moments that seem to come along fairly often in an hour of Lost.


+ me


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

"What do you want? A mix tape?"

ahhh, memories.... dual deck cassette recorder, collection of love song cassettes strewn about, stressing over the titles of the songs and the order to put them in... air supply was always my staple...


the monk:

gave me a anderson cooper/phil from amazing race vibe...


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

MacThor said:


> "You don't have to _use_ me, Freckles..."


That's something I noticed with Kate. She does use men.
She's used Sawyer.
She used bank robber.
She used her childhood friend.
She used Nathan Filion (to try and lead a normal life).
She used the Aussie Farmer.
She used Jack for ????



philw1776 said:


> There it is people.
> Definite proof of a time warp!
> An Apple iPhone product from 2007 manifested in 2004.


(Waits for people to scream that Steve Jobs does not do anything original  )


----------



## ReenieS (Sep 30, 2002)

scottykempf said:


> So, another vehicle crashes when approaching the island. Starting to think there is a force field around the perimeter of the island.


I think they're in a bubble under the ice floes. Thus, the submarine.


----------



## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

Can someone please explain why there is so much hatred of Charlie? What has he done on the show to cause such negative thoughts? 

I happen to like Charlie as a character. He's nice and flawed. Just like the rest of the cast. Heck, their flaws brought them to the island.


----------



## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

I like Charlie too. His scenes with Claire are sometimes cumbersome, but his buddy scenes with Hurley are great.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

It's the Dominic Monaghan show!


----------



## ReenieS (Sep 30, 2002)

ReenieS said:


> I think they're in a bubble under the ice floes. Thus, the submarine.


Which would also explain why all the magnetics are so skewed up on the island.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

What's the deal with the sun up in the sky then? Is that some sort of artificial light? Is the sky fake? (not attacking, just pointing out what keeps me from liking that theory very much)


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Sirius Black said:


> Can someone please explain why there is so much hatred of Charlie? ....


Easy...he has Kate (Evangeline)!


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

MacThor said:


> Does anyone else think that Desmond has replaced Walt as "the key" on the show? Remember back in season one the producers said Walt - and his "abilities" to visualize something and it happening - was the key? Now that it seems "Waaaaaalt" and Michael ("Daaaaaaad") are gone for good (riddance!), Desmond has visions that come to pass - although he can change the outcome.
> 
> It will be interesting to follow to the end. Desmond is one of my favorite characters now, although last night's episode was just average.


I just hope that they somehow deal with what happened to Walt. That story was such a large part of the show at first, and now it's completely disappeared.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Sirius Black said:


> Can someone please explain why there is so much hatred of Charlie? What has he done on the show to cause such negative thoughts?
> 
> I happen to like Charlie as a character. He's nice and flawed. Just like the rest of the cast. Heck, their flaws brought them to the island.


Probably same reason "everyone" hated Nikki and Paolo. I don't know WHAT that reason is though.


----------



## bigrig (Jul 1, 2004)

Am I the only one who thought chopper-girl was Rousseau's daughter?


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

bigrig said:


> Am I the only one who thought chopper-girl was Rousseau's daughter?


I don't know which post it was, but someone posted that they thought it looked like Alex to them. So, there are two of you, at least!

ETA:

Here it is: post #27.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Sirius Black said:


> Can someone please explain why there is so much hatred of Charlie? What has he done on the show to cause such negative thoughts?


It's not the show.
It's that he's a Hobbit!
And he's boinking Kate.
Is that enough?


----------



## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

Bierboy said:


> Easy...he has Kate (Evangeline)!


There is that but that's in "the real world". I'm talking about people wishing the character dead. It's like my wishing Wesely Wyndam Price dead because he went and married Alyson Hannigan. I'm just talking about on the show.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

From what I can gather, for every Lost character, there are several TC members who hate him/her for no real reason. Often times it's the same TC members even. So far I haven't heard anyone say they hate Hurley or Sayid. So in the minds of certain TC members, Lost would be much better if everyone except those two were killed off.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

ReenieS said:


> I think they're in a bubble under the ice floes. Thus, the submarine.


A bubble. Interesting.


----------



## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

Yeah, I think it's just jealousy that Dominic is with Evangeline. (She's not showing a bit BTW)

Some people are still pi**ed he offed Ethan before the losties could question him.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

hefe said:


> A bubble. Interesting.


If that's from Walt's comic book, that a spaceship sitting in the Arctic.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

MacThor said:


> Yeah, I think it's just jealousy that Dominic is with Evangeline.


Nah, I don't like him because he's whiny and _completely _irrational. A lot like Michael was. And like Jack gets sometimes.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

JYoung said:


> If that's from Walt's comic book, that a spaceship sitting in the Arctic.


I see a bubble. 

Plus, there's mountains, so it can't be the Arctic. It could be the Antarctic.


----------



## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

philw1776 said:


> And he's boinking Kate.
> Is that enough?


Hey, they could be waiting until they are married.  

Hefe, what you are saying are mountains could be the edge of the ice pack.

Oops, looked more closely and you are right, there are mountains way out in the background.


----------



## acej80 (Jan 19, 2003)

tanstaafl said:


> I really don't think there's anything significant about Penny having a copy of the picture. We saw a copy of it on her bedside table back in the season finale of second season after all.
> 
> We know Penny had access to Desmond's stuff at some point after they broke up. (Maybe when she went to his apartment to get her things. Or she could possibly have somehow gained access to his personal belongings while he was in prison.) Remember, she wrote a letter to him and left it in his book. Presumably she could have taken the photo and made a copy of it at that same time.
> 
> I sort of look at it like I do the photo of the clock lady on the head monk's desk in this episode. Yes, the picture is an obvious (badly done) photoshop, but I don't think we're supposed to be wondering "Why does the monk have a photoshopped picture of himself with someone on his desk?" I think either we're just supposed to go "Oh, the head monk knows the clock lady" or just accept it as another easter egg left there by TPTB for us to find. I don't think that the fact that it is photoshopped is supposed to be significant and I don't think the question of how Penny got a copy of the photo is supposed to be significant either. She just does.


Thanks tanstaafl. That's what I was trying to get at, and you said it way better than I ever could have.


----------



## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

hefe said:


> Did he?
> 
> I recall the vision or dream where he sees a bloodied, but not dead Boone saying "Teresa falls up the stairs, Teresa falls down the stairs" or something like that. I don't recall if there was anything Locke saw that specifically would lead him to believe that going into the plane would kill him. Or I could be forgetting something...


Yeah, that's the scene I'm talking about; maybe it's a difference in interpretation (especially since I'm looking at it in hindsight). I was taking the vision of a obviously bloodied Boone to indicate that something bad was going to happen to him; kind of a "speaking from beyond the grave" thing. You are correct that he didn't explicitly see Boone dead, but I think it was clear that he had the idea that something very bad could or would be happening to Boone and took no action on it. Like, say, telling Boone "In the same dream that I saw this plane I also saw you badly injured; be very careful."

He does later tell Jack that Boone was a "sacrifice demanded by the Island". I think that was in the first season finale.


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Sirius Black said:


> There is that but that's in "the real world". I'm talking about people wishing the character dead. It's like my wishing Wesely Wyndam Price dead because he went and married Alyson Hannigan. I'm just talking about on the show.


For the record, although I think Charlie will be offed before the end of the season, he doesn't really bother me, and I certainly don't want him dead.

I thought Paolo and Nikki were kind of annoying, but I didn't wish them dead until they showed in the episode where they actually died just how horrible they were. Even then I can't say I _wanted _ them dead, but they got what they had coming.

I didn't cry any tears for Ana-Lucia either, but then again, I think the overall body count would be higher if she were still alive. That woman had a hair trigger.


----------



## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

Lee L said:


> Hey, they could be waiting until they are married.


Or they could just be naked in a bed together but not doing anything beyond that.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

stalemate said:


> Or they could just be naked in a bed together but not doing anything beyond that.


Or maybe they just bundle...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundling_(tradition)


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

stalemate said:


> Or they could just be naked in a bed together but not doing anything beyond that.


....uh......no.....


----------



## Jericho Dog (Feb 10, 2006)

hefe said:


> Did he?
> I recall the vision or dream where he sees a bloodied, but not dead Boone saying "Teresa falls up the stairs, Teresa falls down the stairs" or *something like that. I don't recall* if there was anything Locke saw that specifically would lead him to believe that going into the plane would kill him. Or *I could be forgetting something...*


What??

Are you losing your powers?
You can't let us all down!


----------



## TiMo Tim (Jul 20, 2001)

DLiquid said:


> More Book of Genesis. Last week it was Jacob and Rachel, this week it's Desmond as the reluctant Abraham and Charlie as Isaac.


And let's not forget Phil Collins.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Delta13 said:


> Ahh, spooning. That move to 10pm gives the writers more freedom, eh? They even added a zipper sound during the Kate-Sawyer tussle, to help those who were apparently unclear as to exactly what was going on in his tent.
> 
> And c'mon, Jack's a doctor. He gave the spoon to Juliet. Germs!


Kate spooned Jack who spooned Juliet, but Sawyer got forked.


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

TiMo Tim said:


> And let's not forget Phil Collins.


good one


----------



## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Sirius Black said:


> Can someone please explain why there is so much hatred of Charlie? What has he done on the show to cause such negative thoughts?
> 
> I happen to like Charlie as a character. He's nice and flawed. Just like the rest of the cast. Heck, their flaws brought them to the island.


Me too. At different times, Charlie makes me smile and cringe and laugh and cry. Compare him with Jack, who lately just makes me cringe ALL the time.


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

getreal said:


> Kate spooned Jack who spooned Juliet, but Sawyer got forked.


Been Kated twice now -- a sympathy Fork and a revenge Fork.


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> From what I can gather, for every Lost character, there are several TC members who hate him/her for no real reason. Often times it's the same TC members even. So far I haven't heard anyone say they hate Hurley or Sayid. So in the minds of certain TC members, Lost would be much better if everyone except those two were killed off.


Why, I hate Hurley and Sayid.



(No, actually I don't ...)

In "One of Us" there was the zoomed out scene of Sayid and Sawyer watching Jack with Claire - there was a guy holding a torch, about ten feet from the hut. He was right next to a fire. (!) This guy clearly has no purpose in life, and I think they should kill him off immediately.


----------



## BriGuy20 (Aug 4, 2005)

MacThor said:


> It will be interesting to follow to the end. Desmond is one of my favorite characters now, although last night's episode was just average.


+1 :up:


----------



## FlugPoP (Jan 7, 2004)

bigrig said:


> Am I the only one who thought chopper-girl was Rousseau's daughter?


 At first glance I thought the same thing.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Sirius Black said:


> There is that but that's in "the real world". I'm talking about people wishing the character dead. It's like my wishing Wesely Wyndam Price dead because he went and married Alyson Hannigan. I'm just talking about on the show.


Wesley dead!!! nooo!! oh wait, he did die, but Wesley is adorable and sexy and awesome. Tell you what, you take Willow...I mean Alyson and I get Wesley!


----------



## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

Completely off topic, but Westly had one of the most dramatic changes in overall character of any, fictional character, in a television show I can remember (outside of Babylon 5). I kind of wish Lost had such real character development. The only one I can think of is Locke, but he seems more aimlessly moving than moving in a direction.

I never, for one moment, thought that it was going to be Penny. She just wouldn't go herself.

You could almost see Desmond mentally debate if he was going to save Charley this time or not. On one side, since he could, saving him would be the moral thing to do. On the other side, EVENTUALLY the universe will win and Charley will die, and if things continue as they have been recently, it will have its way quite soon.

For someone who has been committed to saving the world, and now to saving Charlie, his early fear of commitment seems rather ironic. Oh, the writers did it that way on purpose! :


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Jericho Dog said:


> What??
> 
> Are you losing your powers?
> You can't let us all down!


Hey, I forget plenty. That's why I gotta look it up. 

I'm pretty good at searching, though.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

drew2k said:


> Me too. At different times, Charlie makes me smile and cringe and laugh and cry. Compare him with Jack, who lately just makes me cringe ALL the time.


Jack...must die.
There, now I'm back in Season 1 form!


----------



## Richard R1 (Sep 20, 2002)

While the real-life identity of Mystery Girl was revealed in an earlier post (Marsha Thomason), I can't believe no one has recognized her from her earlier role as Nessa Holt on "Las Vegas". Or, was it so obvious that it didn't need mentioning?

Just where did Penny get a copy of Desmond's photo? Why, from his Myspace website profile, of course!


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

Jericho Dog said:


> But they found a picture in the book from the backpack.
> 
> That was after Charlie should have died.


Oh yeah, guess I got the timeline wrong. But wait - maybe it's wrong because Desmond changed it. 

See? That's the problem with "timeline shift" plots - there's no logic, so you can do anything. Bleh.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Jericho Dog said:


> What??
> 
> Are you losing your powers?
> You can't let us all down!


Hefe's powers only extend to spoken dialogue (from scripts). What Locke saw in the vision is outside of Hefe's ability.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Richard R1 said:


> While the real-life identity of Mystery Girl was revealed in an earlier post (Marsha Thomason), I can't believe no one has recognized her from her earlier role as Nessa Holt on "Las Vegas". Or, was it so obvious that it didn't need mentioning?


So that's where she went after she left "Vegas." She went to work for Penny.


----------



## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

TiMo Tim said:


> And let's not forget Phil Collins.


Nice. You're probably joking, but I bet that's an intentional connection. Adam, Eve, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Rachel, and Ben. They were running out of names in Genesis so they had to move to Ruth and Naomi (Book of Ruth). Then of course there's Aaron, biblical brother of Moses.

A lot of times I think they're just throwing this stuff in to mess with our heads, like they do with the philosopher names (Locke, Hume, Rousseau), but in this episode they went further and actually modelled the plot on a story from Genesis.

Now I'm waiting for the butterflies, flutterbyes, and gutterflies.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Richard R1 said:


> Just where did Penny get a copy of Desmond's photo? Why, from his Myspace website profile, of course!


Nice try...Desmond has been on the island since at least 2001, and MySpace was created in 2003.


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

DLiquid said:


> Nice. You're probably joking, but I bet that's an intentional connection. Adam, Eve, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Rachel, and Ben. They were running out of names in Genesis so they had to move to Ruth and Naomi (Book of Ruth). Then of course there's Aaron, biblical brother of Moses.
> 
> A lot of times I think they're just throwing this stuff in to mess with our heads, like they do with the philosopher names (Locke, Hume, Rousseau), but in this episode they went further and actually modelled the plot on a story from Genesis.
> 
> Now I'm waiting for the butterflies, flutterbyes, and gutterflies.


One more name from Genesis: Sun.


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

6 pages of posts and nobody has posted a screenshot of Kate getting dressed in her tent? What's wrong with you people?!?!?

(BTW, I think they used a body double for Evangeline Lilly in that scene. They never showed her body and her face in the same scene, at least not until she had her shirt on.)


Oh, and I couldn't let an episode called "Catch-22" go by without pointing out a few things about the book (Catch-22 spoilers below):

1) Catch-22 is a book that meanders back and forth in time and is well-known to have dozens of timeline errors - many things couldn't have happened in the order described - discontinuities like A happens after B, B happens after C, and C happens after A).

2) The book takes place almost entirely on ..... get this ..... an island. An island where the bombardier pilots of the 256th Squadron are "trapped" (in that they can't go home because their tours of duty keep getting extended by the military brass).

3) A major character (Orr) keeps emergency crashing his plane into the ocean throughout the book and parachuting to safety (it turns out at the end that he was practicing his crashes so he could fake his own death in a crash and escape to Sweden)


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

scottykempf said:


> So, another vehicle crashes when approaching the island. Starting to think there is a force field around the perimeter of the island.


I keep thinking of some kind of Gilligan's Island reference.. some astronauts or a rock band should show up some week.


----------



## skinnyjm (Feb 10, 2005)

One thing I noticed in this ep that didn't seem right...
Don't the British still say "sacked", not "fired" ?


----------



## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

skinnyjm said:


> One thing I noticed in this ep that didn't seem right...
> Don't the British still say "sacked", not "fired" ?


They're both used.


----------



## Richard R1 (Sep 20, 2002)

hefe said:


> Nice try...Desmond has been on the island since at least 2001, and MySpace was created in 2003.


Hmmph, pesky little details!


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

hefe said:


> ... Or I could be forgetting something...


Yeah, right


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

ReenieS said:


> I think they're in a bubble under the ice floes. Thus, the submarine.


Similar to what I was thinking. I remember when I was little reading a book where they had to get past the ice to arrive at some "Lost World" type of land. It wasn't _under_ the ice, per se, but it was surrounded by ice.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Sirius Black said:


> Can someone please explain why there is so much hatred of Charlie? What has he done on the show to cause such negative thoughts?
> 
> I happen to like Charlie as a character. He's nice and flawed. Just like the rest of the cast. Heck, their flaws brought them to the island.


Jealousy over Evangeline Lily.
Edit: sorry for the smeek. The Sens just won their round one match up and I was too busy with the hockey boards to catch up on Lost.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

philw1776 said:


> It's not the show.
> It's that he's a Hobbit!
> And he's boinking Kate.
> Is that enough?


Well, we don't know that for sure. It has been implied (they're dating, engaged) but we just haven't been given sufficient proof.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Does a tropical rainstorm ruin an Ovation guitar?


My dislike of Charlie has nothing to do with Evangeline Lilly. The Charlie character is whiney and he's a stalker.

Another x-number of days pass any *still* nobody bothers to ask Juliet what the Others are doing on the island and why they keep bleeping with them? Sheesh!


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

You *have* to watch this first: 
http://www.tenthdimension.com/medialinks.php

One thing that hasn't been brought up yet. In Desmond's flashes you can see three people holding the parachute -- Jin is clearly visible, you can see a bit of Hurley, and then you see the teeshirt and arm of Charlie. Except that Charlie gets killed *before* the find the parachute and use it to catch the parachutist.

So, was it a production error? Filming the scene once from two different angles? Not likely, because the colour of the parachute is also different. It could be the lighting of the scene (some of Desmond's flashes are shown in a silvery light and all). However, if the lighting is different, then it's likely that they filmed it separately, in which case Charlie's presence is not a production error.

The relevant screen caps can be seen at Lost Easter Eggs.

Next, let's take a look at the suggestion that, had he let Charlie die, then the parachutist would have been Penny. I still don't understand why Desmond was thinking that, since his flash of Penny did not show her being the parachutist. However, let's assume for a second that he was correct, and that Penny would have been there. How? Charlie dies *after* the parachutist is already on the Island, and certainly *way after* she got in the helicopter in the first place.

Well, if you watch the demonstration in the link posted above, then you have to consider the possibility of not just time travel (traveling along the 5th dimension to get to a different point in the 4th dimension), but traveling along the sixth dimension to a different "location" along the fifth dimension (the fifth dimension is analogous to alternate timelines for an individual -- Desmond.

So by saving Charlie he is not altering the future (which would not explain why it was Naomi instead of Penny); instead, he is jumping to an alternate timeline.

P.S. Sorry for not spoilerizing the name Naomi, which, frankly, I'm not even sure as to where that name came from (it was mentioned on Lost Easter Eggs but with no attribution).

Seriously, watch the presentation at the above link and this post will make a lot more sense.


----------



## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

stalemate said:


> Was that supposed to have been Ruth at the end or some other person we don't know?


Was there dialog in that scene? I was distracted.....


----------



## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> Does a tropical rainstorm ruin an Ovation guitar?


This was originally posted over on Lostpedia but has since been removed. Take it with whatever sized grain of salt you need.


Lostpedia said:


> Charlie's guitar is an Ovation, which is made from synthetic materials. The sides and back of the body are Lycrachord (a substance having similar properties to plastic) and the top is HPL (high pressure laminate), which is basically wood chips pressed together under extreme pressure. The neck and fret board are also HPL, so water and humidity changes wouldn't affect the guitar itself. My question is how are the metal strings still in such great shape after being on a deserted island for 2 and a half months.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

I'll buy that Lypracord could probably take the humidity and rain on a tropical island without deterioration. (Remember, they've been there less than 3 monts in Lost time).

I don't buy the argument that HPL (The laminated wood that the front of the guitar is made out of) won't warp if it gets wet or is kept in high humidity. It does. New Orleans is humid enough to do so, a tropical island certainly would be. However, it might take more than 3 months for it to be warped enough to be a problem.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Fish Man said:


> I don't buy the argument that HPL (The laminated wood that the front of the guitar is made out of) won't warp if it gets wet or is kept in high humidity. It does. New Orleans is humid enough to do so, a tropical island certainly would be. However, it might take more than 3 months for it to be warped enough to be a problem.


I'm inclined to believe whatever Fish Man has to say about how water warps wood. Sorry, again, man.

..Jeff


----------



## scsiguy72 (Nov 25, 2003)

DLiquid said:


> Nice. You're probably joking, but I bet that's an intentional connection. Adam, Eve, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Rachel, and Ben. They were running out of names in Genesis so they had to move to Ruth and Naomi (Book of Ruth). Then of course there's Aaron, biblical brother of Moses.


So they used a Phil Colins reference as a Connection to Genesis?


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

scsiguy72 said:


> So they used a Phil Colins reference as a Connection to Genesis?


Never even thought of that, but I bet that's what they were doing.


----------



## Bluewookie (Sep 24, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> Does a tropical rainstorm ruin an Ovation guitar?


I own an Ovation guitar, and it'll never be rained on.

But lets just say that it is impervious to rain for the sake of this discussion.

1 person falling on would cause serious damage, even if they are light-weight like Charlie. 2 people falling on it would most certainly have destroyed it beyond repair.

Also, if that wasn't bad enough, an arrow through the neck and fret-board would render it useless.

And finally, I've been telling my wife for the last 2 and 3/4 seasons that the strings on that guitar would be lucky to last 3 weeks in that environment at best. By that time they would be rusted, brittle, and for all intents and purposes unplayable.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Maybe he's got some nylon strings to change to.


----------



## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

scsiguy72 said:


> So they used a Phil Colins reference as a Connection to Genesis?


Plus the song "Coming in the Air Tonight" I suspect.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

wprager said:


> So by saving Charlie he is not altering the future (which would not explain why it was Naomi instead of Penny); instead, he is jumping to an alternate timeline.


You're assuming the other timeline (where Charlie dies) still exists. If you follow that theory, for Desmond (and of course the audience), it was destroyed at the moment Desmond followed the new one. If he wanted that timeline to exist again, he'd have to go back to the point where things changed. Sixth dimension or no, he can't just go to that point without going back first.

Otherwise, he's Old Biff returning the Delorian to the future. Can't be done, Marty & Doc are nonexistent in this timeline, Old Biff is in an alternate 2015. Thank you for playing.

What's my point? I dunno.

Greg


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

gchance said:


> You're assuming the other timeline (where Charlie dies) still exists.


All possible timelines exist simultaneously. They have to -- where else could they go?



> If you follow that theory, for Desmond (and of course the audience), it was destroyed at the moment Desmond followed the new one. If he wanted that timeline to exist again, he'd have to go back to the point where things changed. Sixth dimension or no, he can't just go to that point without going back first.


Actually, that's the exact point of traveling along the sixth dimension. It won't make sense until you watch that presentation, or at least enough of it to get to the sixth dimension. Honestly, give it a try.



> Otherwise, he's Old Biff returning the Delorian to the future. Can't be done, Marty & Doc are nonexistent in this timeline, Old Biff is in an alternate 2015. Thank you for playing.
> 
> What's my point? I dunno.
> 
> Greg


The problem with most time-travel paradoxes is that, while we have gotten somewhat used to thinking in 4 dimensions, we have (we, meaning the writers/movie makers and their audience; quantum physicists are excluded) but not so much beyond that. I wonder if all of these paradoxes are not really paradoxes at all if you add in the extra dimensions.

Now, who else thinks that Juliet may be preggers, and that this is why she really wants to get off the Island at any cost?


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

wprager said:


> Actually, that's the exact point of traveling along the sixth dimension. It won't make sense until you watch that presentation, or at least enough of it to get to the sixth dimension. Honestly, give it a try.


I'm just going to assume that I already watched it in another timeline.


----------



## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

Nice one hefe!


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

hefe said:


> I'm just going to assume that I already watched it in another timeline.


Your call, of course.

Although I seriously doubt that this is how Lost will be resolved, it is none-the-less one of the better explanations on how to visualize dimensions beyond the four we know and love.


----------



## skinnyjm (Feb 10, 2005)

skinnyjm said:


> One thing I noticed in this ep that didn't seem right...
> Don't the British still say "sacked", not "fired" ?





drew2k said:


> They're both used.


I guess I've watched too much Monty Python !

(As if that's possible.)


----------



## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

Bluewookie said:


> [...]And finally, I've been telling my wife for the last 2 and 3/4 seasons that the strings on that guitar would be lucky to last 3 weeks in that environment at best. By that time they would be rusted, brittle, and for all intents and purposes unplayable.


I don't know jack squat about guitars, but since Charlie is a professional musician traveling abroad, one would have to assume that he had packed extra strings and whatnot.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Mike Farrington said:


> I don't know jack squat about guitars, but since Charlie is a professional musician traveling abroad, one would have to assume that he had packed extra strings and whatnot.


Unless the extra strings were hermetically sealed, they'd rust too.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Fish Man said:


> Unless the extra strings were hermetically sealed, they'd rust too.


Not if they're stainless steel.


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

One point I am surprised no one has pointed out yet...........

We have all the talk about changing the timelines....the talk about if Des had let Charlie die would it have been Penny in the flight suit.......

All this talk assumes there was only one person in the helicopter. Why couldn't we also assume that maybe Penny was in the copter with this other woman?


----------



## BriGuy20 (Aug 4, 2005)

Mike Farrington said:


> I don't know jack squat about guitars, but since Charlie is a professional musician traveling abroad, one would have to assume that he had packed extra strings and whatnot.


Bear in mind that they go just about one episode per day. It's only about day 50 on the island, IIRC.

Plus, if we're gonna nitpick, where's Freckles getting all her makeup?


----------



## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

BriGuy20 said:


> Bear in mind that they go just about one episode per day. It's only about day 50 on the island, IIRC.
> 
> Plus, if we're gonna nitpick, where's Freckles getting all her makeup?


It's actually day 80something.

The makeup would have been in the wreckage. No self-respecting female would go to a plane crash without her makeup!


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

tanstaafl said:


> Plus the song "Coming in the Air Tonight" I suspect.


Are you referring to the Sawyer/Kate scene?


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

BriGuy20 said:


> Bear in mind that they go just about one episode per day. It's only about day 50 on the island, IIRC.


The Nikki-Paulo episode was day 84 (or maybe 80). Hurley made a recent comment (can't remember which ep., but one of the last 3) about being there 3 months.



BriGuy20 said:


> Plus, if we're gonna nitpick, where's Freckles getting all her makeup?


Claire too. Must be the magic box.


----------



## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

BriGuy20 said:


> Bear in mind that they go just about one episode per day. It's only about day 50 on the island, IIRC.
> 
> Plus, if we're gonna nitpick, where's Freckles getting all her makeup?


Season 2 Finale was Thanksgiving Day (based on the number of days given from plane crash to anomaly, and plane crash was 9/22/04).

So I'm guessing they're in December now.

Not that we're gonna nitpick. 

PS - Freckles must have found a flight attendant's bag. Have you SEEN how much makeup they wear?


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

This episode was days 86 and 87.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

wprager said:


> Now, who else thinks that Juliet may be preggers, and that this is why she really wants to get off the Island at any cost?


Well, if she was pregnant and she did get off the island it might not matter. Remember, she said herself that whatever is happening to the women happens at conception and that's why she couldn't stop them from dying. That's why she was able to save Claire. And if Sun got pregnant BEFORE landing on the island then she should be safe too.


----------



## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

DUDE_NJX said:


> Are you referring to the Sawyer/Kate scene?


Actually I was thinking of the arrival of the newcomer by helicopter/parachute.


----------



## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

Ah, the nitpicks. For all we know the DHARMA drops could include makeup. As for the guitar strings, I can't see DHARMA drops including those. But this is a guitar that survived a plane crash, remember it on the side of the cliff? If the island is mysterious enough that it could survive that without a scratch, I'm not too concerned that the strings haven't rusted.


----------



## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

jlb said:


> One point I am surprised no one has pointed out yet...........
> 
> We have all the talk about changing the timelines....the talk about if Des had let Charlie die would it have been Penny in the flight suit.......


It was mentioned, rather cryptically however. Look in past posts for mention of Schrodinger (a reference to the quantum physics / philosophy question known as Schrodinger's Cat or Schrodinger's Box).

So we have, essentially, "Schrodinger's Flightsuit".


----------



## MegaHertz67 (Apr 18, 2005)

unicorngoddess said:


> Well, if she was pregnant and she did get off the island it might not matter. Remember, she said herself that whatever is happening to the women happens at conception and that's why she couldn't stop them from dying. That's why she was able to save Claire. And if Sun got pregnant BEFORE landing on the island then she should be safe too.


I'm pretty sure Sun got pregnant on the island. I think that Jin's potency was one of the island's healing miracles...like Locke walking.


----------



## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

jlb said:


> One point I am surprised no one has pointed out yet...........
> 
> We have all the talk about changing the timelines....the talk about if Des had let Charlie die would it have been Penny in the flight suit.......
> 
> All this talk assumes there was only one person in the helicopter. Why couldn't we also assume that maybe Penny was in the copter with this other woman?


That could be it. I have always figured that Desmond thought (or knew, based on his reaction) that it would be Penny because he had already seen it in a previous iteration. Maybe he keeps seeing it over and over, yet still manages to get back there. Suppose he is changing other things too, all trying to eventually make it so Penny rescues him and he somehow breaks the cycle and never goes back. However, this time, he changed somethign that had the effect of replacing Penny.

Of course, it could be nothign to do with timelines.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Schrodeinger's flight suit does not make sense. The cat dies based on direct consequences of the quantum state. In the flight suit theory, who is in the flight suit is not affected even remotely by whether charlie dies or not because they had already jumped. The only way it would work that way is if desmond could somehow transport his consciousness from the two isolated states (state a being penny in flight suit and state b being the other lady). Keep in mind the whole thing would require that quantum mechanics are ultimately behind desmond's "powers"... which I guess could be true, we don't officially know the whole deal with the purple haze.

So on that idea, the button pushy magnetic device somehow alters things on a quantum level and as a result a certain number of possible states exist, isolated from each other, where certain people (desmond, maybe walt) can interact with the decoherent states.

Kind of far fetched... also doesn't explain how desmond can see the future instead of alternate presents.


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

tanstaafl said:


> Actually I was thinking of the arrival of the newcomer by helicopter/parachute.


I keep forgetting to use this ---->>>


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

unicorngoddess said:


> Well, if she was pregnant and she did get off the island it might not matter. Remember, she said herself that whatever is happening to the women happens at conception and that's why she couldn't stop them from dying. That's why she was able to save Claire. And if Sun got pregnant BEFORE landing on the island then she should be safe too.


She said there was nothing else she could do, at least not on the Island. I felt there was a strong implication that there was something she wanted to try but it would only work on the mainland.

From the previews it looks like


Spoiler



the Sun question is brought up next week. And unless I am either mis-remembering what she said or interpreting it incorrectly, Sun herself is not sure.


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

wprager said:


> She said there was nothing else she could do, at least not on the Island. I felt there was a strong implication that there was something she wanted to try but it would only work on the mainland.


Or she was tossing out the idea that if if she were in Miami or somewhere else with a top-flight medical facility, maybe she try other things that might help, as an inducement for him to actually let her go. And he didn't bite.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> Schrodeinger's flight suit does not make sense. The cat dies based on direct consequences of the quantum state. In the flight suit theory, who is in the flight suit is not affected even remotely by whether charlie dies or not because they had already jumped. The only way it would work that way is if desmond could somehow transport his consciousness from the two isolated states (state a being penny in flight suit and state b being the other lady). Keep in mind the whole thing would require that quantum mechanics are ultimately behind desmond's "powers"... which I guess could be true, we don't officially know the whole deal with the purple haze.
> 
> So on that idea, the button pushy magnetic device somehow alters things on a quantum level and as a result a certain number of possible states exist, isolated from each other, where certain people (desmond, maybe walt) can interact with the decoherent states.
> 
> Kind of far fetched... also doesn't explain how desmond can see the future instead of alternate presents.


In quantum theory ALL possibilities exist beforehand, albeit at different levels of probability. Classical quantum mechanics postulates that until an observer overtly makes an observation, thereby causing the quantum probability fields to collapse and resolve into the one selected outcome, all the others exist. Maybe Desi is a human 'quantum computer' able to forsee all possibilities. Now the question is...can he select and influence how he wishes the waveform to collapse?


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Here's another funny iPhone article in connection to LOST: http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/04/20/lost-islanders-snag-an-iphone-before-the-street-date/


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

wprager said:


> She said there was nothing else she could do, at least not on the Island. I felt there was a strong implication that there was something she wanted to try but it would only work on the mainland.


Yes, she also said to Ben at that there's nothing else for her to try on the island and that she needs the equipment of a mainland lab to do anything further. That can be interpreted though... i.e., she wants to go to the mainland to experiment further using available equipment there? Or she saying she can't ever go any farther because the experiments need to be *on* the island, but it's not feasible to get the mainland lab setup she needs on the island?


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Bluewookie said:


> I own an Ovation guitar, and it'll never be rained on.
> 
> But lets just say that it is impervious to rain for the sake of this discussion.
> 
> ...


Is that where the arrow hit? Interesting since it was to land in Charlie's neck. So, in terms of the Genesis metaphor: guitar is to ram as Charlie is to Isaac?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

mqpickles said:


> You got it.  It was actually as they were leaving the tent, so she had her shirt on at that point. Close enough. (I have one thing in common with Tom. Kate's not my type.)


No, it wasn't as they were leaving the tent.

Sawyer approaches Kate's tent. The tent door is closed.
Sawyer: Hey Freckles, you home?
Kate [from inside tent]: I thought you weren't allowed to use nicknames.
Sawyer: Well, you weren't around when I lost the bet, so you're . . .
Sawyer pokes head inside tent and sees Kate in her underwear, pulling on her pants.
Sawyer [voice trailing off]: . . . exempt.


----------



## RunnerFL (May 10, 2005)

Fish Man said:


> I'll buy that Lypracord could probably take the humidity and rain on a tropical island without deterioration. (Remember, they've been there less than 3 monts in Lost time).
> 
> I don't buy the argument that HPL (The laminated wood that the front of the guitar is made out of) won't warp if it gets wet or is kept in high humidity. It does. New Orleans is humid enough to do so, a tropical island certainly would be. However, it might take more than 3 months for it to be warped enough to be a problem.


From selling, and playing, guitars for years I can tell you that the way Ovation's are made they are about 99.9% synthetic [Pieces of crap IMO]. One of their selling points is that they are not effected by the elements. The laminating process that they use totally seals the HPL. I myself wouldn't take it out in the rain though, actually I wouldn't even own one.


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## RunnerFL (May 10, 2005)

Bluewookie said:


> 1 person falling on would cause serious damage, even if they are light-weight like Charlie. 2 people falling on it would most certainly have destroyed it beyond repair.


Very true. I myself was surprised when we saw that it was not smashed.



Bluewookie said:


> Also, if that wasn't bad enough, an arrow through the neck and fret-board would render it useless.


Yup, absolutely unplayable.



Bluewookie said:


> And finally, I've been telling my wife for the last 2 and 3/4 seasons that the strings on that guitar would be lucky to last 3 weeks in that environment at best. By that time they would be rusted, brittle, and for all intents and purposes unplayable.


Just the salt air would render the strings useless within a couple of days.


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## RunnerFL (May 10, 2005)

Fish Man said:


> Unless the extra strings were hermetically sealed, they'd rust too.


D'Addario packs their strings individually in sealed, specially forumlated, plastic that would keep them safe from the elements until opened. So it is plausable.


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## Ruth (Jul 31, 2001)

I don't think all the makeup is so mysterious. It seems obvious that Kate is having her makeup done at the same island beauty salon where she is getting her bikini waxing.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

DLiquid said:


> As for the guitar strings, I can't see DHARMA drops including those. But this is a guitar that survived a plane crash, remember it on the side of the cliff? If the island is mysterious enough that it could survive that without a scratch, I'm not too concerned that the strings haven't rusted.


I thought it was broken, and Locke fixed it for Charlie, like, in the first season. Or am I mis-remembering things?


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

devdogaz said:


> No, it wasn't as they were leaving the tent.
> 
> Sawyer approaches Kate's tent. The tent door is closed.
> Sawyer: Hey Freckles, you home?
> ...


Okay, thanks, Hefe . . . I mean Devdog.


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## rondotcom (Feb 13, 2005)

Jericho Dog said:


> Aha!
> The truth finally comes out!
> 
> You've felt that way for a long time and wouldn't admit it!!
> ...


Actuallt Rob never felt that way until Desmond started changing the future


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

rondotcom said:


> Actuallt Rob never felt that way until Desmond started changing the future


No, I've always hated this show., I've never believed for a second that they had any clue where they're going with it.

Wha..?

DANG YOU, DESMOND!! DANG YOU TO THE LUKEWARM PITS OF HECK!!!


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

hefe said:


> I'm just going to assume that I already watched it in another timeline.


Hey! I used to get _Alternate Timeline_ TV too, but I could never figure out when the shows were on. 

Just please Hefe, don't reveal any spoilers from there. You know, they may not be true here and you'll mess up Rob even further!


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> DANG YOU, DESMOND!! DANG YOU TO THE LUKEWARM PITS OF HECK!!!


Will the incessasnt bashing of the fine Scotish people never cease?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

philw1776 said:


> Will the incessant bashing of the fine Scottish people never cease?


Hey, when he stops screwing around with my timeline, I'll stop bashing him!


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Delta13 said:


> Hey! I used to get _Alternate Timeline_ TV too, but I could never figure out when the shows were on.
> 
> Just please Hefe, don't reveal any spoilers from there. You know, they may not be true here and you'll mess up Rob even further!


Ooh, ooh, I've got a spoiler...I know what the initials in the title for next week mean.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I see from the Now Playing index that there are a lot of really long threads for this "Lost" show--what's it about? It sounds kind of interesting, and obviously people are into it...and look, it seems I've even posted from time to time.

Hey, what's that in my .sig?!?

Wait a minute.

*Desmond!!*


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

I became a fanatical freak of LOST in short order - and not until Season 3.

Some people I know mentioned I should watch it. I'd never seen an episode before, so I rented Season 1 from Netflix. From the very first episode, I was hooked. 

In the course of about 2 weeks, I watched back to back every single minute of Season 1, every single minute of Season 2, then I began downloading and watching Season 3 on iTunes, until I got caught up with the current broadcast episode.

The hardest thing for me now is having to wait for a week to see another episode. I don't know what I'll do when the season ends. Probably sink into a deep depression.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

TiVotion said:


> The hardest thing for me now is having to wait for a week to see another episode.


Then I guess it's a good thing you didn't start watching until _this _season.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TiVotion said:


> From the very first episode, I was hooked.


Lost is proof that the concept of pilot as hook is merely dying, not quite dead yet.

Because that pilot was one hell of a hook! Within seconds, it had me.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Lost is proof that the concept of pilot as hook is merely dying, not quite dead yet.
> 
> Because that pilot was one hell of a hook! Within seconds, it had me.


True. It also had a great pre-launch ad campaign. We were looking forward to it for weeks before it ever started. (And one of the reasons is now the favorite whipping boy, Dom.)

I wonder how many people would have stayed with Lost if they had seen Season 2 in a short time frame like TiVotion. I definitely prefer the S3 schedule to S2.

TiVotion, FYI, don't know if it's settled, but there's talk of ABC waiting to launch S4 until January '08 and running it straight through to May like Fox does 24. Hope that doesn't make you more depressed.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> DANG YOU, DESMOND!! DANG YOU TO THE LUKEWARM PITS OF HECK!!!


LOL!


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

mqpickles said:


> True. It also had a great pre-launch ad campaign. We were looking forward to it for weeks before it ever started. (And one of the reasons is now the favorite whipping boy, Dom.)


Really? The ads totally turned off my wife and I. We kept making fun of the show, thinking it was some sort of dramatized version of Survivor.

However... My wife and I were on vacation that week and turned on the TV in the evening to see what was on. We watched the pilot and were hooked. We are forever grateful that we were on vacation without our TiVo, or else we never would have discovered Lost.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> No, I've always hated this show., I've never believed for a second that they had any clue where they're going with it.
> 
> Wha..?
> 
> DANG YOU, DESMOND!! DANG YOU TO THE LUKEWARM PITS OF HECK!!!


Ok, so this got me curious if anything else had changed... Even though I realized I shouldn't be able to notice any of the changes, I looked anyway.

Get this.. Despite our long thread to the contrary, it turns out that in our current reality, Jm J Bullock was actually a rather _mediocre_ actor, and not in fact "Great"....???!!?!? WHEN THE HELL DID THAT HAPPEN?!?


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## dkim68 (Apr 23, 2007)

gchance said:


> So do any sites have the English translation of Jin's ghost story yet?
> 
> Greg


Hi Greg, I'm new here, and I'm Korean. I translated Jin's story as best I could. Here it is:

(little girl's voice) Thank God. I was frightened youd left because I double-crossed you.
(narrator) After hearing this, the man smiled and said,
(man's voice) Dont worry, dear girl. You should know that I have A HOOK FOR A HAND!!!


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## kimsan (Jan 23, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> Ok, so this got me curious if anything else had changed... Even though I realized I shouldn't be able to notice any of the changes, I looked anyway.
> 
> Get this.. Despite our long thread to the contrary, it turns out that in our current reality, Jm J Bullock was actually a rather _mediocre_ actor, and not in fact "Great"....???!!?!? WHEN THE HELL DID THAT HAPPEN?!?


Does that mean josquin actually ISN'T a highly valued regular poster in this reality?

My timeline is shattered and yet, hilarity ensues.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

dkim68 said:


> Hi Greg, I'm new here, and I'm Korean. I translated Jin's story as best I could. Here it is:
> 
> (little girl's voice) Thank God. I was frightened youd left because I double-crossed you.
> (narrator) After hearing this, the man smiled and said,
> (man's voice) Dont worry, dear girl. You should know that I have A HOOK FOR A HAND!!!


Thanks...I thought that might be it.


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## Jericho Dog (Feb 10, 2006)

hefe said:


> Thanks...I thought that might be it.


Classic.

That was great hearing it Korean.
And especially since none of them could understand it.

...and Jin still scared Hurley!

HA!


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

dkim68 said:


> Hi Greg, I'm new here, and I'm Korean. I translated Jin's story as best I could. Here it is:
> 
> (little girl's voice) Thank God. I was frightened youd left because I double-crossed you.
> (narrator) After hearing this, the man smiled and said,
> (man's voice) Dont worry, dear girl. You should know that I have A HOOK FOR A HAND!!!


I love it! Thanks.

Greg


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## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

Just to revisit the issue of Desmond's photo of him and Penny... Cuse and Lindelof mention it almost in passing in the latest podcast. I doubt this is spoilery, but I'll spoiler it just to be safe. (Nothing about future episodes, just about the photo.)



Spoiler



I just finished listening to the latest official podcast. In it, Cuse and Lindelof mention, almost in passing, that there were _two_ copies of the picture made when it was taken; one was given to Desmond and one to Penny. They say that the picture that the newcomer had with her was a photocopy of Penny's photo.

So, apparently even though we didn't see it, there were two copies of the photo from the very beginning, at least as far as the writers are concerned. There is no mystery with the photo.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

dkim68 said:


> Hi Greg, I'm new here, and I'm Korean. I translated Jin's story as best I could. Here it is:
> 
> (little girl's voice) Thank God. I was frightened youd left because I double-crossed you.
> (narrator) After hearing this, the man smiled and said,
> (man's voice) Dont worry, dear girl. You should know that I have A HOOK FOR A HAND!!!


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

tanstaafl said:


> Just to revisit the issue of Desmond's photo of him and Penny... Cuse and Lindelof mention it almost in passing in the latest podcast. I doubt this is spoilery, but I'll spoiler it just to be safe. (Nothing about future episodes, just about the photo.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One of my first jobs was at Sears Portrait and we use to take passport photos. The camera we used had dual lenses or something because the pictures had to be done in pairs. So even though we snapped one pic the film developed TWO pictures on it. I guess it wouldn't be too hard to believe the cameraman was using a dual lense camera.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

At the end of Season 2, when the arctic researchers phoned Penny, she had a framed print of her and Desmond on her bedside table by the phone.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

getreal said:


> At the end of Season 2, when the arctic researchers phoned Penny, she had a framed print of her and Desmond on her bedside table by the phone.


True. http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1085-1409.html


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## charlesml3 (Oct 13, 2005)

> Oh, another Stephen King reference. Hurley and Charlie are arguing over who would win, The Flash or Superman. Straight out of Stand By Me. (aka The Body.)


Not quite. True enough "Stand by Me" was based on Stephen King's "The Body." However, in "Stand By Me," Vern and Teddy were arguing Mighty Mouse vs. Superman. Not The Flash.

-Charles


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

dkim68 said:


> Hi Greg, I'm new here, and I'm Korean. I translated Jin's story as best I could. Here it is:
> 
> (little girl's voice) Thank God. I was frightened youd left because I double-crossed you.
> (narrator) After hearing this, the man smiled and said,
> (man's voice) Dont worry, dear girl. You should know that I have A HOOK FOR A HAND!!!


http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0196654/ 
Coincidence that Jin is played by a D. Kim who was born in 1968?


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

mqpickles said:


> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0196654/
> Coincidence that Jin is played by a D. Kim who was born in 1968?


Wow, good catch!

And I was thinking he might be related to Ekim!


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## sn9ke_eyes (Sep 4, 2002)

Am I the only one who don't really see the sat phone looking just like an iphone ? I mean they are both phones with touch screen looking interfaces but I don't really think they look all that similar.

And I don't wish for Charlie's death, but he's definitely my least favorite character. Has nothing to do with anyone the actor is dating, his character is just obsessive, annoying, and sorry.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

sn9ke_eyes said:


> Am I the only one who don't really see the sat phone looking just like an iphone ? I mean they are both phones with touch screen looking interfaces but I don't really think they look all that similar.
> 
> And I don't wish for Charlie's death, but he's definitely my least favorite character. Has nothing to do with anyone the actor is dating, his character is just obsessive, annoying, and sorry.


Charlie's better this season, but he went kind of nutso last season (or was it S1, they're blurring now) when he was feeling threatened by Locke, and then kidnapped Sun.


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

Oh my. Finding out that there may be a huge hiatus between the end of S3 and the start of S4 is gonna make me twitch like a monkey on morphine. Oh well. I'll just have to find some way to cope with my addiction.

I agree on the sat. phone. I didn't think that it especially looked like an iPhone. If anything, it looked to me kinda like a cross between a PDA and a Merlin Wizard (insert dated 80's toy reference here).

Funny, but the concensus in my office is that Charlie is our least favorite character as well. Claire is a 2nd runner up. 

I really, really wish Shannon was still around. That girl was hotter than hot. She didn't add much to the plot for me, but she sure was easy on the eyes.


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## dkim68 (Apr 23, 2007)

mqpickles said:


> Coincidence that Jin is played by a D. Kim who was born in 1968?


lol, my name is David.  That's interesting that we're the same age.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

dkim68 said:


> lol, my name is David.  That's interesting that we're the same age.


Well, you are welcome here all the same. In fact, most of us aren't Lost cast members either. 

Thanks for the translation.


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

DLiquid said:


> Ah, the nitpicks. For all we know the DHARMA drops could include makeup.


Or they're just raiding the village of the others for selected supplies.


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