# commercial skip feature is awesome!



## kisby (Mar 31, 2002)

I recorded Blood and Oil tonight on ABC. Within a couple minutes of the end of the show, the commercial skip feature was available and works like a dream! I could get used to this!


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

kisby said:


> I recorded Blood and Oil tonight on ABC. Within a couple minutes of the end of the show, the commercial skip feature was available and works like a dream! I could get used to this!


Until they start allowing broadcasting full frontal nudity on commercials


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Glad to hear it's working well! I loved this feature on my ReplayTVs, and I was super excited when I heard TiVo was implementing it on their new boxes. Is TiVo the only one with this technology built into their DVRs now, or does Dish have something similar?


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

gweempose said:


> Glad to hear it's working well! I loved this feature on my ReplayTVs, and I was super excited when I heard TiVo was implementing it on their new boxes. Is TiVo the only one with this technology built into their DVRs now, or does Dish have something similar?


The Hopper (DISH's flagship DVR) has a similar feature.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

tarheelblue32 said:


> The Hopper (DISH's flagship DVR) has a similar feature.


 Except it's 24 hours to 1 week later to kick in vs a few minutes on the TiVo.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

moyekj said:


> Except it's 24 hours to 1 week later to kick in vs a few minutes on the TiVo.


And only applies to the broadcast networks.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

moyekj said:


> Except it's 24 hours to 1 week later to kick in vs a few minutes on the TiVo.





Dan203 said:


> And only applies to the broadcast networks.


Right, I said "similar" not "the same".


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

Good to hear that the TiVo Bolt commercial skipping appears to work well.. Since we are mentioning other ad skipping DVRs, I have been using the PlayLater streaming DVR which offers commercial skipping with some streaming sites. It doesn't come with human interaction and may not be as precise but I have had good results with USA Network and a few others I have used. It appears the name is changing but I haven't updated recently so my PC still thinks it is PlayLater.

https://www.playon.tv/features/adskip


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

How does the TiVo know where the commercials are? Are the beginning and end points tagged by an actual human being?


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

During the recent Q&A here with Tivo's CMO, it was described as a mix of human and software intervention to tag for commercials. Nothing more specific on the process has been disclosed, at least not that I'm aware of. 

Given that description, I'm guessing software guesses at the locations immediately after the show is completed and a human then verifies/corrects the log, thereby explaining why it takes a few minutes after the show is over for the feature to become available.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

I think it's the reverse: humans mark the commercials, and software confirms. I remember TiVo reporting that the Super Bowl wardrobe malfunction was the most-replayed moment in its recording history. The news took me by surprise, because it hadn't occurred to me that the mothership was keeping track of when its viewers were rewinding and fast-forwarding. Now that I know they do, my assumption is that the data for the commercial-skipping is crowd-sourced: TiVo aggregates the ffw data from us live as we watch. If 90% of almost-live viewers are ffw-ing over a given time-span, then TiVo marks it as a commercial. The commercial skipping is available so soon after airing because they need some minimum number of just-behind-live viewers for accurate data.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

tatergator1 said:


> During the recent Q&A here with Tivo's CMO, it was described as a mix of human and software intervention to tag for commercials. Nothing more specific on the process has been disclosed, at least not that I'm aware of.
> 
> Given that description, I'm guessing software guesses at the locations immediately after the show is completed and a human then verifies/corrects the log, thereby explaining why it takes a few minutes after the show is over for the feature to become available.


What does the Bolt skip mode do when the program is delayed, like after a football game that runs over by say 1/2 hour, 60 min. and programs on CBS that follow are good examples. Now I pad 1 hour on each of the programs I want that follows the football game..


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## reneg (Jun 19, 2002)

danterner said:


> I think it's the reverse: humans mark the commercials, and software confirms. I remember TiVo reporting that the Super Bowl wardrobe malfunction was the most-replayed moment in its recording history. The news took me by surprise, because it hadn't occurred to me that the mothership was keeping track of when its viewers were rewinding and fast-forwarding. Now that I know they do, my assumption is that the data for the commercial-skipping is crowd-sourced: TiVo aggregates the ffw data from us live as we watch. If 90% of almost-live viewers are ffw-ing over a given time-span, then TiVo marks it as a commercial. The commercial skipping is available so soon after airing because they need some minimum number of just-behind-live viewers for accurate data.


To me, that sounds a lot more complex to implement than software marks, human confirms.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

lessd said:


> What does the Bolt skip mode do when the program is delayed, like after a football game that runs over by say 1/2 hour, 60 min. and programs on CBS that follow are good examples. Now I pad 1 hour on each of the programs I want that follows the football game..


It will be interested to see how well this work, with varying pre-padding of shows... and our clocks sure better be synced.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Maybe it syncs the clock more frequently now to ensure they stay synced.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

kisby said:


> I recorded Blood and Oil tonight on ABC. Within a couple minutes of the end of the show, the commercial skip feature was available and works like a dream! I could get used to this!


Everyone has failed to ask the obvious question: How were you using the CommercialSkip feature last night when the Bolt isn't scheduled to start shipping until today?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Everyone has failed to ask the obvious question: How were you using the CommercialSkip feature last night when the Bolt isn't scheduled to start shipping until today?


I expect TiVo has had their army of drones tagging shows for a while, now, getting them all trained-up... as well as to support testing of the features. It wouldn't make any sense for TiVo to wait until the exact hour of the release to suddenly prod their zombies into action.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

lessd said:


> What does the Bolt skip mode do when the program is delayed, like after a football game that runs over by say 1/2 hour, 60 min. and programs on CBS that follow are good examples. Now I pad 1 hour on each of the programs I want that follows the football game..


Well I found out how it worked for Madam Secretary on the east cost. Show was just shy of 30 min late and recording was padded 30 min. When recording was started pushing the "D" button used for SkipMode brought you to the start of Madam Sec. and then SkipMode continued to work correctly for whole show.

Great Job TiVo! :up:


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Still hoping they bring this down to the Roamio Pro. Even if they charge an extra fee for lifetime users I bet a lot of us would pay it. (as long as it was reasonable)


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## kisby (Mar 31, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Everyone has failed to ask the obvious question: How were you using the CommercialSkip feature last night when the Bolt isn't scheduled to start shipping until today?


It was released for sale yesterday. Commercial skip started working on day 1.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> Everyone has failed to ask the obvious question: How were you using the CommercialSkip feature last night when the Bolt isn't scheduled to start shipping until today?


They have them in stock at a lot of BestBuy locations.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

I'm in the dark ages now. I have to hit my skip button 2-10 times and maybe throw in 1-2 8 second skip back button presses as well.


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## andyw715 (Jul 31, 2007)

danterner said:


> I think it's the reverse: humans mark the commercials, and software confirms. I remember TiVo reporting that the Super Bowl wardrobe malfunction was the most-replayed moment in its recording history. The news took me by surprise, because it hadn't occurred to me that the mothership was keeping track of when its viewers were rewinding and fast-forwarding. Now that I know they do, my assumption is that the data for the commercial-skipping is crowd-sourced: TiVo aggregates the ffw data from us live as we watch. If 90% of almost-live viewers are ffw-ing over a given time-span, then TiVo marks it as a commercial. The commercial skipping is available so soon after airing because they need some minimum number of just-behind-live viewers for accurate data.


Difficult to skip when watching live. I think these annotated shows have the commercial markers within minutes of airing.

Video redo does a decent job if you set up a template per channel. Usually by waiting for the network watermark. 
In any event the software could be processing live and humans verify the segments. Those segments could then be verified by human shortly after the commercial actually aired.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

trip1eX said:


> I'm in the dark ages now. I have to hit my skip button 2-10 times and maybe throw in 1-2 8 second skip back button presses as well.


 - Ya now that I have seen SkipMode & QuickMode in action I can say I would like both. But having a 2 year old Roamio that I paid $590 with lifetime and just recently dropped a 3TB drive in I am not sure what price point it would take to get me to move to a Bolt or Bolt OTA if/when they come out. My guess is I will wait several years, the Roamio is just too good to spend much now. Not to mention that I also have a Premiere, TiVo HD, & Series 3 all with lifetime. The Roamio was an easy choice because the Premiere's OTA tuners just didn't work well for me and both the TiVo HD & Series 3 are glitchy (all 3 are unplugged now). But who know maybe TiVo will make me an offer I can not refuse .


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## NJ Webel (Dec 8, 2004)

atmuscarella said:


> Well I found out how it worked for Madam Secretary on the east cost. Show was just shy of 30 min late and recording was padded 30 min. When recording was started pushing the "D" button used for SkipMode brought you to the start of Madam Sec. and then SkipMode continued to work correctly for whole show.
> 
> Great Job TiVo! :up:


Did _you_ pad Madam Secretary yourself ahead of time?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Padding shouldn't matter. I don't know exactly how TiVo did it, but if it were me I'd base the whole system off of a universal 24 hour clock. Then as long as the clock in the TiVo matched the server they would sync up. To account for clock drift they could either have the TiVo check in with the server more frequently or they could compare the local time to the server time when the jump points were downloaded and offset them accordingly.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Yes it's almost a certainty the commercial bookmark time points are in GMT just like anything else time related in TiVo database. Would be interesting to see if RPC info actually shows what the time points are for the show.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

NJ Webel said:


> Did _you_ pad Madam Secretary yourself ahead of time?


Madam Secretary was padded after the recording started but before Madam Secretary actually started. CSI Cyber was also tested and worked the same as Madam Secretary, it was padded ahead of time.

I agree with Dan padding shouldn't matter. My guess is it would work even if the show wasn't padded enough and part of it was missing. Will be interesting to see what people find out over time.


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## zerdian1 (Apr 19, 2015)

kisby said:


> I recorded Blood and Oil tonight on ABC. Within a couple minutes of the end of the show, the commercial skip feature was available and works like a dream! I could get used to this!


I understand that 20 or so channels were selected (by committee) do you know what they are?
I would assume THE FOUR BASICS ARE THERE: CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, 
DOES ANYONE HAVE A LIST?


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## mrizzo80 (Apr 17, 2012)

zerdian1 said:


> I understand that 20 or so channels were selected (by committee) do you know what they are?
> I would assume THE FOUR BASICS ARE THERE: CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX,
> DOES ANYONE HAVE A LIST?


https://www.tivo.com/popup/skipmode-channels


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## kisby (Mar 31, 2002)

Even re-runs are getting the commercial-free love! I just watched Big Bang Theory in 20 minutes (regular speed, not fast) with no commercials!


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

kisby said:


> I recorded Blood and Oil tonight on ABC. Within a couple minutes of the end of the show, the commercial skip feature was available and works like a dream! I could get used to this!


OK, one thing not yet answered.. What exactly does "was available" mean?

That is, how do you tell when it ISN'T available from when it is?

is it simply hitting D and nothing happens? (Or for those who can stand the noises, they probably get a BONK noise.)


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## kisby (Mar 31, 2002)

mattack said:


> OK, one thing not yet answered.. What exactly does "was available" mean?
> 
> That is, how do you tell when it ISN'T available from when it is?
> 
> is it simply hitting D and nothing happens? (Or for those who can stand the noises, they probably get a BONK noise.)


On your list of recorded shows, there is a green "skip" icon next to the ones with commercial skip available. What impresses me is how quickly this is available. Within a very few minutes after a show has aired, this feature is available. I (almost) never watch TV shows live. I record them and watch at my convenience, after all that's what a DVR is all about. For me, this feature is a dream and well worth the cost of the Bolt!

All my life, I have wanted to be able to push a button and make commercials go away. Now I can.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

kisby said:


> All my life, I have wanted to be able to push a button and make commercials go away. Now I can.


 I was skipping commercials automatically back in early 2000s with ReplayTV, and I didn't even have to press a button. I miss those days and glad to see TiVo finally got the balls to implement something related to commercial skipping.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

mattack said:


> OK, one thing not yet answered.. What exactly does "was available" mean?
> 
> That is, how do you tell when it ISN'T available from when it is?
> 
> is it simply hitting D and nothing happens? (Or for those who can stand the noises, they probably get a BONK noise.)


There's a little Skip icon when it's available.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

kisby said:


> Even re-runs are getting the commercial-free love! I just watched Big Bang Theory in 20 minutes (regular speed, not fast) with no commercials!


Yeah I think they said it was active 4pm to Midnight. So as long as what you're watching is nationally syndicated, and not just local, then it should work.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

moyekj said:


> I was skipping commercials automatically back in early 2000s with ReplayTV, and I didn't even have to press a button. I miss those days and glad to see TiVo finally got the balls to implement something related to commercial skipping.


Urf. Bringing ReplayTV and its fate into the discussion makes me wonder whether TiVo got some balls, or if they've only taken this potentially legally hazardous step out of desperation.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> Urf. Bringing ReplayTV and its fate into the discussion makes me wonder whether TiVo got some balls, or if they've only taken this potentially legally hazardous step out of desperation.


I think the major difference is ReplayTV's feature was automatic. Dish and now TiVo require the user to interact. Thus, if the user wants to see commercials, or is simply lazy, they can.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think the major difference is ReplayTV's feature was automatic. Dish and now TiVo require the user to interact. Thus, if the user wants to see commercials, or is simply lazy, they can.


Quite possibly true, as ReplayTV introduced "SkipNav" (edit: correction: 'Show|Nav') in their final model, the 5500 series, pre-demise, which didn't automatically skip commercials; instead, it would jump to the next commercial marker only when you pressed a button.

edit: p.s. Similar to using Channel Up/Down with the BOLT's SkipMode, ReplayTV's Show|Nav allowed you to jump to the next/previous commercial in/out marker using the left/right arrow button on the remote.


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## geko29 (Dec 13, 2000)

Anybody know if SkipMode works when shows recorded on Roamio/Premiere are played back on Bolt?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

geko29 said:


> Anybody know if SkipMode works when shows recorded on Roamio/Premiere are played back on Bolt?


Not now. No idea if that will change with the next software update.


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## filovirus (Aug 22, 2013)

Tivo must apply the skip mode markings using Eastern/Central time zone airings. How does the function behave in say Mountain or Pacific time zones? Does it become available earlier or after the show is complete?


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

atmuscarella said:


> Not now. No idea if that will change with the next software update.


It doesn't work if it's streamed or transferred to the Bolt?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

cherry ghost said:


> It doesn't work if it's streamed or transferred to the Bolt?


Correct - at least not now. I have some hopes a Roamio software update might change that.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

filovirus said:


> Tivo must apply the skip mode markings using Eastern/Central time zone airings. How does the function behave in say Mountain or Pacific time zones? Does it become available earlier or after the show is complete?


They have to do it for both. East coast recordings are often delayed or preempted by sports whereas West coast recordings rarely are. Also a lot of live events are actually edited for time when they are broadcast for the West coast. Those things would throw off the markers. So if they want it to be accurate they would have to do different markers for the East and West coast airings.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> They have to do it for both. East coast recordings are often delayed or preempted by sports whereas West coast recordings rarely are. Also a lot of live events are actually edited for time when they are broadcast for the West coast. Those things would throw off the markers. So if they want it to be accurate they would have to do different markers for the East and West coast airings.


 If done properly the skip markers would be offset in msecs relative to playback of the show itself, thus immune to specific time zone constraints and making the actual start time of the airing itself irrelevant. i.e. If a commercial block starts at 5 minutes into the show then the skip marker for it would be 300,000 msec point, etc.
So barring the start/end points of commercials being different in different time zones there should be no need for time zone specific tagging.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think the major difference is ReplayTV's feature was automatic. Dish and now TiVo require the user to interact. Thus, if the user wants to see commercials, or is simply lazy, they can.


The networks definitely hated Commercial Skip on the Replays, but not as much as they hated the ability to send shows to other people's boxes. It was such an awesome feature, and that was back when most people still had really slow internet connections. Imagine how well it would work today.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

moyekj said:


> If done properly the skip markers would be offset in msecs relative to playback of the show itself, thus immune to specific time zone constraints and making the actual start time of the airing itself irrelevant. i.e. If a commercial block starts at 5 minutes into the show then the skip marker for it would be 300,000 msec point, etc.
> So barring the start/end points of commercials being different in different time zones there should be no need for time zone specific tagging.


But that's assuming the show is aired exactly the same for East and west coast. As I mentioned above live shows are often edited for length on the West coast so they don't line up with what was aired in the East. Some shows might, others wont. They're going to have to verify anyway so they might as well just do the whole process for both coasts.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

gweempose said:


> The networks definitely hated Commercial Skip on the Replays, but not as much as they hated the ability to send shows to other people's boxes. It was such an awesome feature, and that was back when most people still had really slow internet connections. Imagine how well it would work today.


It was also SD with a bitrate of 3-4Mbp. Most HD shows these days are 12-15Mbps so I think they would probably even out.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

gweempose said:


> The networks definitely hated Commercial Skip on the Replays, but not as much as they hated the ability to send shows to other people's boxes. It was such an awesome feature, and that was back when most people still had really slow internet connections. *Imagine how well it would work today*.


IVS is still alive and well, though perhaps somewhat diminished in its old age, following the demise of the original poopli and all its registered users and Replays. IVS *still* works great for what I need, after a new poopli sprang forth, and transfers can be amazingly fast. I'm still keeping a single ReplayTV alive at each of 2 locations, explicitly to keep my IVS pipe alive. I may drop it down to a single location, but with a few cold backups on the shelf -- one of which may have formerly resided in Northbrook, IL.  *

I did shudder the other day when I saw someone on TCF question whether someone couldn't try writing an app to allow sharing content between TiVos or TiVo households. Good way to get TCF shutdown, if not our TiVos, as well.

----
* (thanks, again)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> It was also SD with a bitrate of 3-4Mbp. Most HD shows these days are 12-15Mbps so I think they would probably even out.


Yeah, the TCFer who posed the "hey, couldn't we write something to share content?" question had explicitly stated that the MPEG2-to-MPEG4 migration was the impetus behind his thought, since the MPEG4 file sizes might make the over-the-Internet transfers more practical (from a technical standpoint; legal... not so much).


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

krkaufman said:


> Yeah, the TCFer who posed the "hey, couldn't we write something to share content?" question had explicitly stated that the MPEG2-to-MPEG4 migration was the impetus behind his thought, since the MPEG4 file sizes might make the over-the-Internet transfers more practical (from a technical standpoint; legal... not so much).


I've actually been thinking about doing this myself for years. Just never had time. Using PC software as the middleman you could easily have TiVos share content as if they were on the same local network. You could even have the server PC transcode to H.264 on the fly to reduce the file size. The hardest part of the whole thing would be to figure out how to decrypt and recode the .tivo file as it was being downloaded, so you wouldn't have to wait for it to finish downloading before it would start transferring to the client PC. Although I think with some modifications to tivodecode it could be done.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

krkaufman said:


> Urf. Bringing ReplayTV and its fate into the discussion makes me wonder whether TiVo got some balls, or if they've only taken this potentially legally hazardous step out of desperation.


I'm just basically repeating what a zillion other messages about the Bolt have already said... if I'm getting this wrong, someone please correct me.

Other posters' hypotheses are that the new functionality is *specifically* set up to follow the legal decision made in the DISH case. That is, since DISH's autohop functionality wasn't legally taken away, Tivo's functionality is supposedly working within the specific rules set out in that ruling.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I recorded several shows tonight between NBC, ABC, and the CW. But I have not seen commercial skip available on any of them. Is there anything I need to do to enable it?

For example, It's been almost two hours since the end of the SHIELD episode, and I don't see a commercial skip option for it.

Although I did only setup the Bolt tonight. It had finished connecting around ten minutes before 9PM. But the guide was populated at that point and I setup a bunch of one pass recordings to take place at 9PM, 10PM, and 11PM.

EDIT: Hmmm..... It just showed up on the Neil Patrick Harris Show. It was not there ten minutes ago. But so far that is the only one I see it for.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> I've actually been thinking about doing this myself for years. Just never had time. Using PC software as the middleman you could easily have TiVos share content as if they were on the same local network. You could even have the server PC transcode to H.264 on the fly to reduce the file size. The hardest part of the whole thing would be to figure out how to decrypt and recode the .tivo file as it was being downloaded, so you wouldn't have to wait for it to finish downloading before it would start transferring to the client PC. Although I think with some modifications to tivodecode it could be done.


Yeah, I'd think it's already doable, if cobbled, given what people are doing already with KMTTG, PyTiVo, etc.; but it's not something I'd think anyone would want to publish as a product.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> I've actually been thinking about doing this myself for years. Just never had time. Using PC software as the middleman you could easily have TiVos share content as if they were on the same local network. You could even have the server PC transcode to H.264 on the fly to reduce the file size. The hardest part of the whole thing would be to figure out how to decrypt and recode the .tivo file as it was being downloaded, so you wouldn't have to wait for it to finish downloading before it would start transferring to the client PC. Although I think with some modifications to tivodecode it could be done.





krkaufman said:


> Yeah, I'd think it's already doable, if cobbled, given what people are doing already with KMTTG, PyTiVo, etc.; but it's not something I'd think anyone would want to publish as a product.


I do it now with KMTTG auto downloading from my Philly Roamio+ to my PC here, then I have TiVo Desktop auto publish to my Roamio locally so my shows are sitting in it waiting for me when I get home from work. KMTTG can transcode it too, as you know. It won't do it as it downloads like you're saying, which would be nice, so it has to wait until the entire thing downloads which can be awhile for large shows unfortunately.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> The hardest part of the whole thing would be to figure out how to decrypt and recode the .tivo file as it was being downloaded, so you wouldn't have to wait for it to finish downloading before it would start transferring to the client PC. Although I think with some modifications to tivodecode it could be done.


Not sure why you think it needs modifying; tivodecode works fine in a pipe.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

wmcbrine said:


> Not sure why you think it needs modifying; tivodecode works fine in a pipe.


Does it? I thought I tried it once and it stopped as soon as it hit the EOF of whatever had already been downloaded.

Does it work well with TS files yet?

We may need to switch to this for VRD now that TiVo Desktop is discontinued.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> Does it? I thought I tried it once and it stopped as soon as it hit the EOF of whatever had already been downloaded.
> 
> Does it work well with TS files yet?
> 
> We may need to switch to this for VRD now that TiVo Desktop is discontinued.


Yeah I remember when I first setup my VPN to my R+ in Philly and I tried streaming, the network wasn't fast enough so I figured I would try starting a download and then start playing it locally a little bit later so it builds a buffer. It ended up doing exactly as you're saying and only playing until the EOF at the time I started.

I was upset because I would REALLY like to be able to do this. if you can make it happen that would be amazing!


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