# What's the monthly cost?? 12.95 or 19.95



## Toyzruskid1976 (Dec 14, 2010)

Someone clue me in here. My folks are sending me a TiVo premier for Christmas. I had been talking about it forever and apparently they got a good deal on one. 
I talked with TiVo today just to see what impact this would have on my finances and they told me that since I had my own premier device I'd get the service for 12.95 with a year contract.

The more I read online about everything the more I'm really confused. The box was bought online I believe through an Amazon retailer. Since it was not bought at a big box store it shouldn't be part of the 299 for 99 deal which requires you to pay 19.95 a month?

I'm lost... shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth, but 12.95 to 19.95 is a big jump
clue me in? I guess I'll figure it out when the box gets here. I get to turn in my 20 dollar a month DVR from TWC in exchange for a 2.50 a month cable card (which they surprisingly said I could pick up instore... I thought TWC required a tech visit for a card)

Hopefully this is a good gift lol


SOLVED - Called TiVo and they gave me the 12.95 rate I was quoted on line.


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## JTL2 (Dec 2, 2010)

Going from TWC to TiVo is definitely an upgrade, I just did it this past weekend. I briefly visited Amazon, and this is that it says in the fine print:



www.amazon.com/TiVo-TCD746320-Premiere-DVR-Black/dp/B0036OR910 said:


> Product Information: TiVo Premiere and TiVo Premiere XL devices purchased with a $200 instant discount during the holiday promotion period (11/14/10 to 12/31/10) require $19.99/month subscription fee and a 1-year minimum commitment. Early termination fee and other restrictions apply. See manufacturers website for details.


Right now, TiVo is offering a special if you get it through their website, that you get the box free if you sign for two years at $19.99/mo. So it might be worth returning it to Amazon, cuz if you're going to keep it for longer than a year, you're going to paying $19.99/mo for the second year anyway.


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## Toyzruskid1976 (Dec 14, 2010)

So why did TiVo tell me it was 12.95 with a contract? And for the life of me I cannot find the link that they pointed me to.. it's like it was a magical link.


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## shaown (Jul 1, 2002)

I believe the only way to get the 12.95 rate - is to pay 299 for the Premiere through Tivo.com 
Any price near $100 online is going to trigger the 19.95 rate.

Thanks,
-Shaown


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## Madrox17 (Aug 4, 2004)

So without the TiVo, you're still paying $20/month for a DVR? That's not really a jump in price then, except the $2 for the cablecard.

I would hope you'd pay that extra $2 gladly to escape from some lame DVR to the greatness which is (a free) TiVo...?


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## Quake97 (Apr 24, 2006)

Here's the deal, to clarify...

$12.95 if you pay full price from TiVo. There's always a one year agreement no matter what you do here. You can save some money if you prepay for a year. It's a good idea since you're locked in for a year anyway.

$19.95 gets you a free TiVo. You're basically paying the extra $7/month over two years to offset the discount they're giving you.

Joe


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## wp746911 (Feb 19, 2005)

I thought most cable companies gave you a free cable card- that has been my experience at least in houston and fort worth with 2 different companies.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I went to Amazon and looked at the deals they are offering, the note is pretty clear:



> *Product Information: *TiVo Premiere and TiVo Premiere XL devices purchased with a $200 instant discount during the holiday promotion period (11/14/10 to 12/31/10) require $19.99/month subscription fee and a 1-year minimum commitment. Early termination fee and other restrictions apply. See manufacturer's website for details.


But hey, once you get the Tivo, call them and try to activate it. If they give you the $12 rate - Great! If they wan't the $19 rate then you can decide if you want to return it or keep the deal.

Unfortunately, if you get the $19 rate - then your family did not get a "good" deal, they just passed the cost to you.

But you will not know until you try to activate it.

Personally, I always recommend that people go with the lifetime service. It is more $ up front, but I have always saved money on the back end. So if you are interested in lifetime you can see if that is available to you as well.


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## Quake97 (Apr 24, 2006)

wp746911 said:


> I thought most cable companies gave you a free cable card- that has been my experience at least in houston and fort worth with 2 different companies.


Verizon doesn't give free CCs for FiOS. They're $3.99/month.

Joe


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## fredct (Nov 15, 2004)

JTL2 said:


> Right now, TiVo is offering a special if you get it through their website, that you get the box free if you sign for two years at $19.99/mo. So it might be worth returning it to Amazon, cuz if you're going to keep it for longer than a year, you're going to paying $19.99/mo for the second year anyway.


I don't believe this is true. If you get the 1-year deal, doesn't your price go down to $12.95 for the second year (or whatever the rate is a year from now anyway)?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

fredct said:


> I don't believe this is true. If you get the 1-year deal, doesn't your price go down to $12.95 for the second year (or whatever the rate is a year from now anyway)?


The answer to that question is unknown at this time, some people believe the current service agreement says the rate has to be $19.95/mo for the life of these discounted TiVos, others believe at the end of the commitment period (1 or 2 years) you will be able to pick a different plan from what ever is available at that time. The one thing we are all pretty sure of is that at the end of a person's commitment period if they do nothing they will continue to be billed $19.95/mo.

Thanks,


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

atmuscarella said:


> The answer to that question is unknown at this time, some people believe the current service agreement says the rate has to be $19.95/mo for the life of these discounted TiVos, others believe at the end of the commitment period (1 or 2 years) you will be able to pick a different plan from what ever is available at that time. The one thing we are all pretty sure of is that at the end of a person's commitment period if they do nothing they will continue to be billed $19.95/mo.
> 
> Thanks,


From TiVo Payment Plans:



> 5. After the end of the commitment associated with your monthly service plan, TiVo will continue to charge you on a monthly basis at the then-current monthly service plan rate, subject to the terms of the TiVo Service Agreement.
> 
> 6. After the end of your annual commitment, TiVo will continue to charge you on an annual basis at the then-current annual rate. You will receive a notification approximately 30 days prior to your renewal date to notify you of the renewal. Your credit card on file with us will be charged the then-annual renewal rate on your renewal date. You will have up to 30 days after the renewal date to change or cancel your service plan and receive a full refund.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

Who wants to buy a Tivo when trying to figure out the cost takes this much discussion? I can't imagine this new price structure is going to help them.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

aadam101 said:


> Who wants to buy a Tivo when trying to figure out the cost takes this much discussion?


The OP is getting the TiVo as a gift. So who would want to buy a TiVo? Someone that isn't particularly concerned with the pricing since they're giving it away. It looks like the OP just wants to know what to expect next. While there's been threads about the Holiday Pricing program, I don't know if the topic of gifting has been brought up yet.



aadam101 said:


> I can't imagine this new price structure is going to help them.


As mentioned before, there's been threads about the Holiday Pricing program and it's merits (little or no upfront costs), and it's drawbacks (higher monthly costs), so I imagine TiVo wanted to give the option for those that didn't have a lot to spend upfront, like those not wanting to blow the Christmas budget on one item (the TiVo).

Not to derail this thread, but it's apparent that you're dead against _anything_ that TiVo does. Why exactly do you participate in a TiVo forum? Simply trolling?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

The payment plan section also says this:



> 2.1.2 When purchasing a TiVo Premiere box from a third party retailer at $99.99 (includes an instant $200 savings off MSRP) for the TiVo Premiere box or $299.99 (includes an instant $200 savings off MSRP) for the TiVo Premiere XL box, you may only subscribe to the TiVo Service on a monthly basis for $19.99 a month with a one (1) year commitment *(renews monthly after one year).*


The part I put in bold is what concerns some people. Also what orangeboy quoted does not tell you what TiVo will consider "the then-current monthly service plan rate" to be for these boxes. Right now TiVo considers the "current monthly service plan rate" for these boxes to be $19.95/month - no real reason to think that will change.

Ultimately I think TiVo will drop the monthly rate if someone calls and complains after the end of their 1 or 2 year commitment - however I do not believe they will automatically drop their rate and will go on changing them $19.95/mo for as long as possible.

Thanks,


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## plazman30 (Jan 23, 2005)

Toyzruskid1976 said:


> Someone clue me in here. My folks are sending me a TiVo premier for Christmas. I had been talking about it forever and apparently they got a good deal on one.
> I talked with TiVo today just to see what impact this would have on my finances and they told me that since I had my own premier device I'd get the service for 12.95 with a year contract.
> 
> The more I read online about everything the more I'm really confused. The box was bought online I believe through an Amazon retailer. Since it was not bought at a big box store it shouldn't be part of the 299 for 99 deal which requires you to pay 19.95 a month?
> ...


If you can produce a receipt that the TiVo was purchased PRIOR to November 14th, then TiVo will give you the price of $12.95 a month. If you can't, then you'll be stuck at $19.95 a month for the life of the product.

I bought a TiVo off of Craigslist for $150. The seller had a receipt from Amazon dated October 29th, and TiVo gave me the cheaper price.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

aadam101 said:


> Who wants to buy a Tivo when trying to figure out the cost takes this much discussion? I can't imagine this new price structure is going to help them.


Well people like options and all this does is give people more options. For people who don't have a TiVo now the no upfront costs and $19.95 for 24 months is really not a bad deal.

Thanks,


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

plazman30 said:


> If you can produce a receipt that the TiVo was purchased PRIOR to November 14th, then TiVo will give you the price of $12.95 a month. If you can't, then you'll be stuck at $19.95 a month for the *life of the product*.
> 
> I bought a TiVo off of Craigslist for $150. The seller had a receipt from Amazon dated October 29th, and TiVo gave me the cheaper price.


That is not true...

As orangeboy posted, you will be billed at the *then current monthly rate*.


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## plazman30 (Jan 23, 2005)

bradleys said:


> That is not true...
> 
> As orangeboy posted, you will be billed at the *then current monthly rate*.


My chat with a TiVO rep told me that after your commitment is up (1 year for $99.00 or 2 years for the free box), your monthly rate stays at $19.95.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

plazman30 said:


> My chat with a TiVO rep told me that after your commitment is up (1 year for $99.00 or 2 years for the free box), your monthly rate stays at $19.95.


I would trust what's in black and white on the policies page over anything verbal on the phone (or typed in a chat session).


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

bradleys said:


> That is not true...
> 
> As orangeboy posted, you will be billed at the *then current monthly rate*.


Yes and the current monthly rate for these boxes is $19.95 & I would not expect it to go down.


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## Quake97 (Apr 24, 2006)

aadam101 said:


> Who wants to buy a Tivo when trying to figure out the cost takes this much discussion? I can't imagine this new price structure is going to help them.


Actually, I disagree. It makes the barrier of entry nill. When every cable provider just charges a monthly fee for their DVRs, this will help TiVo when it comes to people that say, "I have to pay for my DVR? Its free from Comcast/Verizon/etc."

At least on FiOS, their Multi-room DVR is $20/month, same as TiVo. When given the choice of having a TiVo or the FIOS DVR, it's not even a discussion, go for the TiVo.

Joe


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## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

TiVo needs to stop playing the price game and fix the product.


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## Judremy (Jun 28, 2004)

Quake97 said:


> Actually, I disagree. It makes the barrier of entry nill. When every cable provider just charges a monthly fee for their DVRs, this will help TiVo when it comes to people that say, "I have to pay for my DVR? Its free from Comcast/Verizon/etc."
> 
> At least on FiOS, their Multi-room DVR is $20/month, same as TiVo. When given the choice of having a TiVo or the FIOS DVR, it's not even a discussion, go for the TiVo.
> 
> Joe


But is that $20/month for the DVR that can stream to multiple rooms? If so, then that sounds better than the Tivo as you can't stream it to anything but other Tivos. Also, with all the blocking of MRV on Tivos due to the cable companies, you can't MRV that much stuff.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

MediaLivingRoom said:


> TiVo needs to stop playing the price game and fix the product.


While TiVo is not a huge company, I still imagine that there are separate departments for both of those responsibilities.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

orangeboy said:


> While TiVo is not a huge company, I still imagine that there are separate departments for both of those responsibilities.


So these two departments don't communicate? There isn't someone in charge at Tivo?


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## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

aadam101 said:


> So these two departments don't communicate? There isn't someone in charge at Tivo?


Tom Rogers has been sleeping at the helm.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

aadam101 said:


> So these two departments don't communicate? There isn't someone in charge at Tivo?


Um, why should they? Do you _really_ think the engineers set on fixing the issues care about what the pricing plans are for the product, or the marketing team brainstorming how to get more TiVos out the door are concerned with how to fix the issues at hand?

And yes, I imagine there is someone in charge at TiVo, and I'm glad it isn't you, if you'd have engineering working on pricing plans and marketing working on product issues. 

Separate departments. Separate responsibilities.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

orangeboy said:


> Um, why should they? Do you _really_ think the engineers set on fixing the issues care about what the pricing plans are for the product, or the marketing team brainstorming how to get more TiVos out the door are concerned with how to fix the issues at hand?
> 
> And yes, I imagine there is someone in charge at TiVo, and I'm glad it isn't you, if you'd have engineering working on pricing plans and marketing working on product issues.
> 
> Separate departments. Separate responsibilities.


But there is still a CEO. He is responsible for the overall success of the company. The software has a LOT of issues but the company spends all of its resources on marketing as the "next revolution" and messing around with the price. The product is hardly revolutionary because the software stinks. The pricing has become more confusing than ever.

They fail at software engineering.
They fail at marketing.
They fail at pricing.


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## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

Tom Rogers blame => <= TiVo users blame


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I went to the TiVo site and the terms are pretty clear. Unfortunately, I was wrong...



> 1 year commitment to the TIVO service required After which your service plan will continue at $19.99 a month on a month-to-month basis.


If you want a different rate you are going to have to call them and enter into another commitment. Not a big deal, but not automatic.


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## plazman30 (Jan 23, 2005)

orangeboy said:


> I would trust what's in black and white on the policies page over anything verbal on the phone (or typed in a chat session).


You can buy a Premiere for $299 and pay $12.95 a month or
You can buy a Premiere for $99 and pay $19.95 a month for a year.

If you do that, you end up paying $84 more. Add $99 to that and you have bought a TiVo for $183. There is NO WAY they're going to give you a box for $183 when they used to sell for $299.

Same goes for the 2 year deal. After 2 years, you will have paid $168 for the TiVo instead of $299.

There is no way both deals don't require ongoing month to month commitments at $19.95 a month.

I think the only thing you can do after your 1 or 2 years commitment is up is to buy a lifetime subscription for the box.


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## plazman30 (Jan 23, 2005)

bradleys said:


> I went to the TiVo site and the terms are pretty clear. Unfortunately, I was wrong...
> 
> If you want a different rate you are going to have to call them and enter into another commitment. Not a big deal, but not automatic.


Sorry, just saw your previous post before I posted my math.

According to the rep I spoke with, unless the used TiVo Premiere has a receipt dated prior to November 14th OR the TiVo is currently on a $12.95 a month plan with TiVo that they can look up and verify in their system, you're stuck with $19.95 a month forever.

Sad part is, if you fulfill your commitment and then try to sell the TiVo used, they'll see in their system is either is or was on a $19.95 plan and probably won't let you activate it at the cheaper rate.

This whole thing is royally screwing the used TiVo Premiere market. There are a bunch of people in my area selling new in box Premieres they got as presents and didn't want, and have no receipt and couldn't unload them before November 14th. They wanted $199 for them, but now they'll be lucky to get $50.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

plazman30 said:


> You can buy a Premiere for $299 and pay $12.95 a month or
> You can buy a Premiere for $99 and pay $19.95 a month for a year.
> 
> If you do that, you end up paying $84 more. Add $99 to that and you have bought a TiVo for $183. There is NO WAY they're going to give you a box for $183 when they used to sell for $299.
> ...


I don't understand your math.

Here are the numbers and equations from the policy page I linked to earlier:


|- Commitment cost -| + | TiVo| = |Total cost|
$19.99 x 12 = $239.88 + $ 99.99 = $339.87 (i)
$19.99 x 24 = $479.76 + $ 00.00 = $479.76 (ii)
$12.95 x 12 = $155.40 + $299.99 = $455.39 (iii) or 
$399.99 x 1 = $399.99 + $299.99 = $699.98 (iii)



> 2.1.1 When purchasing a TiVo Premiere box and subscription at the same time directly from TiVo, you may select one of the following options:
> (i) You may purchase a TiVo box and service bundle with
> (a) a box fee of $99.99 (includes an instant $200 savings off MSRP) for the TiVo Premiere box or $299.99 (includes an instant $200 savings off MSRP) for the TiVo Premiere XL box and
> (b) a monthly service fee of $19.99 a month with a one (1) year commitment (renews monthly after one year); or​(ii) You may purchase a TiVo box and service bundle on a monthly basis with
> ...


Further math shows that compared with the PLS plan:
(i) 
will take ~18 months @$19.99 to match the price of PLS, making PLS a more economical choice after ~30 months of owning the box
or if the "then current" rate is back down to $12.95,
will take ~28 months @$12.95 to match the price of PLS, making PLS a more economical choice after ~40 months of owning the box

(ii) 
will take ~11 months @$19.99 to match the price of PLS, making PLS a more economical choice after ~35 months of owning the box 
or if the "then current" rate is back down to $12.95,
will take ~17 months @$12.95 to match the price of PLS, making PLS a more economical choice after ~41 months of owning the box

(iii) 
will take ~19 months @$12.95 to match the price of PLS, making PLS a more economical choice after ~31 months of owning the box


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## plazman30 (Jan 23, 2005)

orangeboy said:


> I don't understand your math.
> 
> Here are the numbers and equations from the policy page I linked to earlier:
> 
> ...


Wow, my math was done like this and it probably wrong:

Regular montly rate is $12.95. New monthly rate is $19.99. Difference per month is $7.04. $7.04x12=$84.48. Box costs $99. Therefore after your one year commitment, you have paid:

$12.95x12=$155.40
$7.04x12=$84.48
box price=$99.99

So, if you figure that you're paying an EXTRA $7.04 a month, and you have a one year commitment, the price of the box under the new plan is $99.99+$84.48=$184.47

That means the box is $115.52 cheaper than it is now. There is no way TiVo is going to let you go on a $12.95/month plan when they still have $115.52 to recoup.

Does this math make any sense, or do I need to re-enroll in Kindergarten?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

I think you guys should forget about the math. People who buy stuff on time don't do it because it is cheaper. 

Thanks,


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

plazman30 said:


> Wow, my math was done like this and it probably wrong:
> 
> Regular montly rate is $12.95. New monthly rate is $19.99. Difference per month is $7.04. $7.04x12=$84.48.


Ok, I'm with ya so far!


plazman30 said:


> Box costs $99. Therefore after your one year commitment, you have paid:
> 
> $12.95x12=$155.40
> $7.04x12=$84.48
> ...


Shouldn't that be $99.99+$84.48=$184.47+$155.40=$339.87 because you still have to pay the regular commitment cost as well? 


plazman30 said:


> That means the box is $115.52 cheaper than it is now. There is no way TiVo is going to let you go on a $12.95/month plan when they still have $115.52 to recoup.


I think TiVo's expectation is that you will continue to use their Service after the initial commitment has lapsed, and will recoup the $115.52 after only ~9 months at $12.95, or ~6 months at $19.99. 9 additional months of continued use of their Service doesn't seem too unreasonable of an expectation.

If you cancel the Service after the commitment has elapsed, sure TiVo will lose out on the box, but you'll basically have a doorstop/paperweight/brick after that time and effort. TiVo's history (from Earnings Results) shows that TiVo doesn't plan or expect positive revenue from their hardware.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

aadam101 said:


> ...The software has a LOT of issues *but the company spends all of its resources on marketing* as the "next revolution" and messing around with the price...


You should hide your ignorance. I'm embarrassed for you. 

```
TIVO INC.
               CONDENSED CONSOLIDATED STATEMENTS OF OPERATIONS
              (In thousands, except per share and share amounts)
                           Three Months Ended         Nine Months Ended
                               October 31,               October 31,
                        ------------------------  ------------------------
                            2010         2009         2010         2009
                        -----------  -----------  -----------  -----------
    Research and
     development (1)         20,446       15,370       58,400       44,794
    Sales and
     marketing (1)            6,157        5,727       20,539       16,885
    Sales and
     marketing, subscription
     acquisition costs        1,398        1,206        5,955        3,026
    General and
     administrative (1)      16,162       11,165       41,962       34,634
```


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

I'm assuming those numbers are in thousands, so are we saying they honestly spent 58 million dollars in research and development this year, and still there has been *no progress* on the Premiere since launch?


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

smbaker said:


> I'm assuming those numbers are in thousands, so are we saying they honestly spent 58 million dollars in research and development this year, and still there has been *no progress* on the Premiere since launch?


I updated my post to include that yes, that those number are in thousands.

I wouldn't say there has been "no" progress. At launch, the software was 14.1. 14.7 has been limitedly released. Pandora has been introduced. Fewer lockups have been reported here at TCF. Speed has been improved, but further improvements are definitely needed. Dunno about other improvements, but I'm sure there are some threads here that detail them.

Sign up at the Field Trials site. I'm sure TiVo would love to have your valuable input.


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## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

Research and development (1) $20,446 for 3 months, where is the iPad app?


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## plazman30 (Jan 23, 2005)

orangeboy said:


> I think TiVo's expectation is that you will continue to use their Service after the initial commitment has lapsed, and will recoup the $115.52 after only ~9 months at $12.95, or ~6 months at $19.99. 9 additional months of continued use of their Service doesn't seem too unreasonable of an expectation.
> 
> If you cancel the Service after the commitment has elapsed, sure TiVo will lose out on the box, but you'll basically have a doorstop/paperweight/brick after that time and effort. TiVo's history (from Earnings Results) shows that TiVo doesn't plan or expect positive revenue from their hardware.


Since they're expecting $12.95 a month, the $115.52 needs to be recouped from the extra $7.04 each month. That's going to take another 17 months.

These boxes do seem to last forever, and TiVo is still supporting the Series 1s with guide data, so they could easily get their money back in the long run.


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## h2oskierc (Dec 16, 2010)

plazman30 said:


> Since they're expecting $12.95 a month, the $115.52 needs to be recouped from the extra $7.04 each month. That's going to take another 17 months.


Not exactly. It costs the company very little more to have 1 million subscribers as it does to have 5 million subscribers. Now that the infrastructure is in place, they may as well sell the boxes without regard for the profit on the hardware. Just like cell phones, the money is in the service.

The Premiere I just paid $100 for may have cost them $300 to make (assuming that they sell them at full price without profit, and I doubt that). The $200 they lost is made up in 10 months of service, and I have to think most Tivo users have their service for a LOT longer than 10 months.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I guarentee that Tivo looses money on Lifetime subscriptions vs. the monthly service fees, but yet it is offered as an option.

What TIVO is banking on is that most consumers will simply not pay attention to the expiration of their committment period and continue to pay the higher price. Since it would take a possitive action by a consumer to call TIVO and ask for a new service contract such as a yearly or lifetime option - I suspect they are correct, and a large number of consumers will continue to pay the higher fee for at least some extended period. 

So I disagree with your math... In general, people do not pay close enough attention to this kind of stuff and I think TIVO will make money on the deal in the end.

So, if you really pay attention to your contract - This could end up being a good deal for you. 

But my personal opinion is; if you can afford the upfront costs, the lifetime option is almost always a better deal!


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## plazman30 (Jan 23, 2005)

bradleys said:


> But my personal opinion is; if you can afford the upfront costs, the lifetime option is almost always a better deal!


If you're the kind of person that wants a new TiVo every time it comes out, then you definitely want to pay monthly instead of lifetime.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

plazman30 said:


> If you're the kind of person that wants a new TiVo every time it comes out, then you definitely want to pay monthly instead of lifetime.


Not if your willing to sell your old TiVo with Lifetime as it will bring your cost down more than monthly as all monthly money is down the drain, you can get back most of your Lifetime cost when you sell, look at what Series 3 with Lifetime service are selling for on E-Bay and compare that to Series 3 without any service. I just looked on completed sales of the TiVo-HD: without Lifetime $104 (inc S&H) (E-Bay 330507650590) with Lifetime $380 (E-Bay 160515750473) so you get back $276 on your Lifetime payment vs the $300 you have put out over say two years vs monthly of $10 or a loss of $240.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Lifetime service at $299 takes about two years to break even (The price can very, you can do your own math). 

I am just now retiring my origional Series 2 which I have had for a loooong time (with Lifetime, it still has value so I may either use it or ebay it). I have had the Series 3 since December 2006 and the TIVO HD since early 2008. You see, that is what's nice about the lifetime service, when I retire a box, I never really retire it - I just move it to another room for FREE! 

Paying the monthly service fee makes no sense to me at all! Heck, I just checked ebay and a Series 3 with lifetime + upgraded HD is going for ~$400 and only $100 without and it looks like I could sell the Series 2 for ~$100... (I think I will keep it)

The only way lifetime would not work is if you had permature hardware failure. But I have never had an issue that the TIVO warrenty didn't take care of. 

No - if you have a desire to keep upgrading, lifetime is a MUCH better deal!


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## PuckCowboy (Dec 15, 2010)

I currently have 2 Tivo Premieres that I just bought Brand new for about $100 a piece via eBay. 

Long story short, since I had older HD boxes current on my account at that moment in time (not anymore though), and the way I opened service with them, Tivo signed me up for $9.95 a month for both Premiere boxes. So Im paying $20.00 for 2 Premieres per month under a year contract, and they assured once the contract is over its just goes Month to Month at that rate.

My question is, is this a deal worth keeping? I'm on FIOS and been trying out the new 7232 500GB Motorola boxes which run $15.00 a month, but would allow me to sell the premieres and get rid of the Cable card fees of $8 a month.

I'm a long time Tivo user, and still like the Premiere... just not sure what to do. Thoughts?


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

PuckCowboy said:


> I currently have 2 Tivo Premieres that I just bought Brand new for about $100 a piece via eBay.
> 
> Long story short, since I had older HD boxes current on my account at that moment in time (not anymore though), and the way I opened service with them, Tivo signed me up for $9.95 a month for both Premiere boxes. So Im paying $20.00 for 2 Premieres per month under a year contract, and they assured once the contract is over its just goes Month to Month at that rate.
> 
> ...


Looks like you got a good deal!

Tivo has always offered a multi-unit discount @ the $10 rate and it looks like the CSR allowed you to simply replace your existing units with the new units. I suspect she made a mistake to your benifit. I would not expect this to be the normal outcome after purchasing a discounted unit.


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## Toyzruskid1976 (Dec 14, 2010)

SOLVED - I called and they gave me the 12.95 rate. Waiting for my M-Card now from Time Warner. 2.50 + 12.95 for Tivo vs 5.00 + 7.95 TW Crappy Box.
So far the 2.50 extra I'm going to be spending seems like it will be worth it.


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## Tech_Challanged (Nov 28, 2010)

Well I'm no genius, as witnessed by my user name, but I don't get all the fuss about how Tivo makes its money. 
I just did my arithmetic from my end and left it at that.
I went with $0 for the Premiere with $19.95/mo with 2 year contract.
My figures: 
Cable costs/month-HDTV box $6
DVR fee 10.95 Total $16.95
Tivo costs/month- Tivo subscription $19.95
Cable card 1.99 Total $21.94
The risks I assume: The Tivo box blows up in 2 years.
If I don't like Tivo service(I have 30 days to decide.)
The way I see it I get a free DVR and Tivo service for $4.99/month.
Is it a good deal? I don't know. You tell me.


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## amatheu (Feb 6, 2010)

JTL2 said:


> Going from TWC to TiVo is definitely an upgrade, I just did it this past weekend. I briefly visited Amazon, and this is that it says in the fine print:
> 
> Right now, TiVo is offering a special if you get it through their website, that you get the box free if you sign for two years at $19.99/mo. So it might be worth returning it to Amazon, cuz if you're going to keep it for longer than a year, you're going to paying $19.99/mo for the second year anyway.


YOU FINISH PAYING $480.28 FOR THE TIVO AND $528.00 WITH THE CABLE CARD, IS THAT A DEALLL! NOT THAT IS A RIP OFF, CABLE CO. CHARGE ONLY 12.95 A MONTH INCLUDING THE DVR! SO I THINK TIVO IS TIDE THE ROPE TO MUCH FOR THE LOYAL COSTUMERS, I GET A PREMIERE, AND I NOT GET A MULTI USER DISCOUNT, SO, I RETURNED TO BESTBUY AGAIN, GOOD LUCK FOR THOSE WHO BITE THE BAIT


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## popeye123 (Dec 17, 2010)

Wow-Is this messed up!!!
Nothing like keeping it simple!
Still have no idea which is cheaper-Either choice it still costs more than cable. I am trying to justify paying more. So I am trying out how to save the money!

When you call Tivo sales-they push 2 years @ $19.99. They are commissioned sales and need I say more! They are going to get paid highest where Tivo makes the most money-so figure this program makes them the most.

I would figure $99 for unit and 1 year commitment for $19.99. If they are going to allow changing to$12.95 after two years-why wouldn't they do the same after 1 year? Unless they are NOT going to let you change monthly fees once started.

So figure this:
$99 + (19.99 x 12) $240=$339
Now add another year at $12.99 x 12=$156
Then add $339+$156=$495 total payments over 2 years. 
With this you can cancel after 1 year and sell the box for $50 if you do not like or they will not lower monthly payments.

if you take $19.99 x 24=$480 and you have the box with same scenario.

Would you spend $15 more over 2 years with the option of getting out after 1 year if they do not allow you to change to lower price???
What make you think they will lower price in two years vs 1 year. Disclosure wise when you are signing- "The Song Remains The Same" after 1 year vs. 2 years! (class action suit????)

So there fore anyone hoping that they go to lower price do the $99- 1 year plan and you have out!!!

This still sucks though, because there are too many variables!
Somehow if a company gives you too many choices/variables the customers suffer.

Someone give me the simple simplest cheapest solution??? 
Hopefully it will come from Tivo???
Can Tivo COMMIT to stating you can go to lower price after plan ends?
Ask any rep and they will do a song and dance-did you notice that?

Please?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

popeye123 said:


> Wow-Is this messed up!!!
> Nothing like keeping it simple!
> Still have no idea which is cheaper-Either choice it still costs more than cable. I am trying to justify paying more. So I am trying out how to save the money!
> 
> ...


What's messed up is your thought process.

If someone came to you and said they wanted to buy the cheapest car possible and at the same time wanted it to be a Cadillac not a Chevy what would you think? Well that is exactly what you are saying.

TiVo is designed and marketed as superior product and a premium upgrade compared to cable company DVRs. If you do not believe it is a premium/superior product you should not be buying it. To expect a superior product should cost less than an inferior one is foolishness.

However if you would like to know how to purchase a TiVo at the over all lowest cost, the answer is fairly simple. Find a friend who owns an TiVo and has upgrade offers. Then have them buy you a TiVo Premiere with lifetime service. It will cost either $470 or $500 depending on what upgrade offers the person has.

Good Luck,


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## popeye123 (Dec 17, 2010)

atmuscarella said:


> What's messed up is your thought process.
> 
> If someone came to you and said they wanted to buy the cheapest car possible and at the same time wanted it to be a Cadillac not a Chevy what would you think? Well that is exactly what you are saying.
> 
> ...


Interesting-I do have a person that has Tivo with 3 boxes. What is pricing for upgrading? If he upgrades how can I use his box and lifetime subscription in my house? Also, I think he already has lifetime subscription. How does it work as mentioned?
Thanks.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

popeye123 said:


> Interesting-I do have a person that has Tivo with 3 boxes. What is pricing for upgrading? If he upgrades how can I use his box and lifetime subscription in my house? Also, I think he already has lifetime subscription. How does it work as mentioned?
> Thanks.


If you friend is willing he can buy a Premiere with lifetime service for whatever his upgrade offer is and then "gift" you the box for what it cost him/her. Lifetime Service stays with the box and TiVo has no issue with people gifting (or selling) their TiVos with lifetime service on them. Once you have it you can transfer it to your own account by calling TiVo pretty straight forward process. The pricing for upgrade offers has been either $470 or $500 for Premiere's with lifetime service.

Good Luck,


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## dleithaus (Oct 29, 2005)

Since I am in the market, decided to do a quick spreadsheet comparison of the plans:

Unit: $0	
Service: $19.99	/ month 
Commitment: 24 months 
Total cost at 24 months: $479.76 
Total cost at 36 months: $720

Unit: $99	
Service: $19.99 / month 
Commitment: 12 months 
Total cost at 24 months: $578.76 
Total cost at 36 months: $819

Unit: $299	
Service: $12.95 / month 
Commitment: 12 months 
Total cost at 24 months: $609.80 
Total cost at 36 months: $765

For the XL 
Unit: $299
Service: $19.99 / month 
Commitment: 12 months 
Total cost at 24 months: $778.76 
Total cost at 36 months: $1,019

Unit: $499	
Service: $12.95	/ month 
Commitment: 12 months 
Total cost at 24 months: $809.80 
total cost at 36 months: $965

This assumes that the service charges stay the same as when you started service over the entire period of ownership. 

At 2 years, the non-XL $0 down and $19.99 / 24 months is the best deal at 2 and 3 year marks. For the XL, the $299 unit at $19.99 for 12, then continuing another 12 months at $19.99 is the best 2 year ownership deal. This is edged out at 36 months with the other $499 unit deal. 

The differences are noticeable between the 24 month non-XL deals.... not so much with the XL. 

Feel free to rip apart...


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## jbart610 (Dec 31, 2010)

dleithaus said:


> Since I am in the market, decided to do a quick spreadsheet comparison of the plans:
> 
> Unit: $0
> Service: $19.99	/ month
> ...


I did the same math, but after the commit I assumed that one would go with the 12.95 plan. In this scenario, the lines crossed in month 29 making the box purchase + lifetime the best deal starting in month 30.


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## popeye123 (Dec 17, 2010)

So....competition-

1o you think with Google TV and some more competition that the $19.95 price will will be coming down?

2:Cablevision will be coming out soon with what Fios has where you can do a lot of taping and watching on multiple TV's. If this happens don't you think TiVo will have to lower monthly prices?


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

Google TV? LOL.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

dleithaus said:


> At 2 years, the non-XL $0 down and $19.99 / 24 months is the best deal at 2 and 3 year marks. For the XL, the $299 unit at $19.99 for 12, then continuing another 12 months at $19.99 is the best 2 year ownership deal. This is edged out at 36 months with the other $499 unit deal.
> 
> The differences are noticeable between the 24 month non-XL deals.... not so much with the XL.
> 
> Feel free to rip apart...


The XL doesn't have the 19.99 price. It is 26.99 if I remember correctly.

EDIT: Hmm I guess they changed it. Maybe the 26.99 was for the $0 upfront cost which they no longer offer on the XL.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

dleithaus said:


> Since I am in the market, decided to do a quick spreadsheet comparison of the plans:
> 
> Unit: $0
> Service: $19.99	/ month
> ...


You should also take into account PLS. I touched on it in this post:



orangeboy said:


> ...
> 
> |- Commitment cost -| + | TiVo| = |Total cost|
> $19.99 x 12 = $239.88 + $ 99.99 = $339.87 (i)
> ...


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## Cventure (Mar 18, 2009)

I currently own (3) tivos that under the muti-service agreement. Now they are telling me that if I elect to upgrade to a premier XL & do not purchase from Tivo Direct the only service plan that I will be eligible for is the $19.95 per month with a 12 month contract which will revert to a monthly agreement after the original 12 month term. I feel that I am being held hostage & that Tivo is putting the screws to the open & fair market of thier authorized retailers. I may just cancel all of my Tivo subscriptions as a result.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

Cventure said:


> I currently own (3) tivos that under the muti-service agreement. Now they are telling me that if I elect to upgrade to a premier XL & do not purchase from Tivo Direct the only service plan that I will be eligible for is the $19.95 per month with a 12 month contract which will revert to a monthly agreement after the original 12 month term. I feel that I am being held hostage & that Tivo is putting the screws to the open & fair market of thier authorized retailers. I may just cancel all of my Tivo subscriptions as a result.


So what kind of deal are you looking for? A $0 box and $299 PLS?

Expectations != Reality.


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## Cventure (Mar 18, 2009)

No Orange Boy, I do expect a service for nothing. That is outright insulting. I am willing to pay the same monthly subscription fee for the very same service. All I have stated here is how difficult it is to deal with TIVO when they want to control all aspects of free marketing. Why have authorized retailers if you are going to penalize all of their purchasers that most likely don't have a clue that they are going to be penalized an additional $7.00 per month unless they purchase directly from TIVO @ a higher sales price with a lower monthly subscription fee. Didn't these same Authorized retailers have to purchase this same equipment under some form of terms? 
My cable provider, Cox Communications, has offered all cable subscribers that require a tuning adaptor free DVR's for 12 months usage @ no cost, which in my case is (3) to not utilize Tivo in my home. There have been numerous reception issues over the many years that I have been a Tivo subscriber and are rearing their ugly head again since Cox has required their supplied tuning adaptors in order to receive all of their digital channels. Lets do the math; I currently pay Tivo $12.95 X 12 = $155.40 a year for the primary subscription + $9.95 X 12 months X (2) additional subscriptions + 3 X $4.00 X 12 months for cable cards for an annual total of $538.20. 
And now Tivo's policy is to restrain free trade & make me a hostage via the monthly service upcharge if I purchase from an Authorized retailer to simply permit me to upgrade my existing equipment. I was even considering keeping the Tivo that I want to replace in my teenagers room @ an additional $9.95 per month for an additional yearly income to Tivo of $119.40.
I truly enjoy the ease of Tivo & channel guide, but this is steadily becoming financially absurd. 
That initial saving of $538.20 is becoming more attractive with every keystroke if for no other reason but principle. I may soon have (2) TIVO Series III HD's + a less than 2 month old Premiere XL for sale if anyone is interested


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Cventure said:


> And now Tivo's policy is to restrain free trade & make me a hostage via the monthly service upcharge if I purchase from an Authorized retailer to simply permit me to upgrade my existing equipment. I was even considering keeping the Tivo that I want to replace in my teenagers room @ an additional $9.95 per month for an additional yearly income to Tivo of $119.40.
> I truly enjoy the ease of Tivo & channel guide, but this is steadily becoming financially absurd.


C'mon, seriously? You can upgrade your existing boxes for $470 + tax for a lifetime Premiere, which is a pretty good deal. Or you can pay less than that upfront and more each month, your choice.

You can also buy a Moxi, or build a Ceton-based HTPC if you want another HD DVR. But those choices will have their own costs and issues.


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## dleithaus (Oct 29, 2005)

Just completed the $299 XL and $19/month deal. Just so tired of the Bresnan DVR. Did not forget upgrading my wireless network to "N", along with a portable wireless N router to plug into the LAN port, and a "slide remote". All told, about $500. Again, anything is better than that damn Bresnan DVR!


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

dleithaus said:


> Just completed the $299 XL and $19/month deal. Just so tired of the Bresnan DVR. Did not forget upgrading my wireless network to "N", along with a portable wireless N router to plug into the LAN port, and a "slide remote". All told, about $500. Again, anything is better than that damn Bresnan DVR!


Welcome to the light!

You would have been fine with an regular B or G wireless network, too.


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## dleithaus (Oct 29, 2005)

netringer said:


> Welcome to the light!
> 
> You would have been fine with an regular B or G wireless network, too.


Good to know, but my G router was older and required increasingly frequent resets.... just a good time to upgrade.


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## xultar (Jun 15, 2005)

Cventure said:


> I currently own (3) tivos that under the muti-service agreement. Now they are telling me that if I elect to upgrade to a premier XL & do not purchase from Tivo Direct the only service plan that I will be eligible for is the $19.95 per month with a 12 month contract which will revert to a monthly agreement after the original 12 month term. I feel that I am being held hostage & that Tivo is putting the screws to the open & fair market of thier authorized retailers. I may just cancel all of my Tivo subscriptions as a result.


That is exactly what I did. I told them to cancel all my boxes and stick them where the sun don't shine.


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## sting (Dec 11, 2003)

amazon.com site has removed the requirement of $19.99/mo fee to buy their discounted Premiere boxes since January 1. What does this mean?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

sting said:


> amazon.com site has removed the requirement of $19.99/mo fee to buy their discounted Premiere boxes since January 1. What does this mean?


That Amazon does not have any more stock so the TiVo is coming from 6th AV and they do have the $19.99/month offer on their sight. This is the problem with what TiVo is doing as the relaters should not be responsible for how/what TiVo sub terms are.


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## timon0x31 (Dec 26, 2010)

plazman30 said:


> My chat with a TiVO rep told me that after your commitment is up (1 year for $99.00 or 2 years for the free box), your monthly rate stays at $19.95.


I got two from Costco for $85 each but Costco did not list the higher rate. I then had a long talk with a TiVo rep and got them to agree to give me the standard yearly $99 rate once the year commitment at $19.95/mo is up. Not bad.


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## joball70 (Jan 1, 2011)

The rising tivo subscription cost=1 less customer....Good riddance.


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## TomA2 (Jan 22, 2011)

Strange. I just bought a Premier DVR from woot.com on January 13 for $64.99 shipped. I just registered it and the price is $12.95. Would never have considered it if it was $19.95. 

Guess I should have bought a few more...


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

TomA2 said:


> Strange. I just bought a Premier DVR from woot.com on January 13 for $64.99 shipped. I just registered it and the price is $12.95. Would never have considered it if it was $19.95.
> 
> Guess I should have bought a few more...


The refurbished DVRs that were available from Woot were not subject to the $19.95/month subsidy/subscription payment, but were eligible as a normal, fully purchased receiver; regular prices, regular multi-service discount availability, lifetime eligible, etc.

This was documented on the Woot info page itself, that it was eligible for the $12.95/normal pricing. And had you bought 2 or more for the same account, the 2nd and additional units would also be eligible for the $3/month multi-service discount pricing (i.e., $9.95/month pricing, if paid monthly).


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