# I Work for Virgin Media, Can I Help?



## Nero2

All,

I was just as surprised as all of you with todays Virgin/Tivo announcement. Even though I work for Virgin Media, as you can imagine its a big organisation. Ive had a Tivo for almost seven years now, and dont live in a Virgin Cable area, so personally Im interested in how it all pans out.

I may be able to act as conduit for any who have questions/queries/suggestions, trying to find out within VM are the appropriate contacts. Obviously I cannot/will not post anything that is in the slightest bit commercially/technically sensitive, but I dont mind trying to plug some of the info gaps.

Ask away.

Thanks

Nero2


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## cwaring

Not wanting to pee on your Cornflakes or anything, but I was going to post this as another possible avenue.
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1152653


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## Raisltin Majere

Can you ask them to expand their networK?


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## Nero2

cwaring said:


> Not wanting to pee on your Cornflakes or anything, but I was going to post this as another possible avenue.
> http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1152653


My cornflakes are nice and dry. 

The thread you linked to is largely concerned with expanding our cable network, I was merely offering to help as a conduit re the Tivo proposition. I know they are linked, but they are not the same.

Thanks


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## Nero2

Raisltin Majere said:


> Can you ask them to expand their networK?


No


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## cyril

Will Virgin produce a TiVo Freeview and/or Freesat box for those of us not in a cable area? (only 1km damnit!)

I would like a 6 tuner Freesat/Freeview combination HD TiVo please


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## cwaring

Nero2 said:


> My cornflakes are nice and dry.
> 
> The thread you linked to is largely concerned with expanding our cable network, I was merely offering to help as a conduit re the Tivo proposition. I know they are linked, but they are not the same.
> 
> Thanks


Fair enough


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## ColinYounger

Nero2 - how about putting our names forward for any pre-release testing?


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## scgf

Yeah! Please?!


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## martink0646

Hi Nero,

I live in East Anglia, PE13 post code and my area is cabled for analogue as I have mentioned more than once in recent posts. At the risk of banging a drum and becoming a bit boring, can you let me know the official policy for upgrading analogue to digital and possibly some contacts I can speak with. I ring periodically and the last couple of times I have been told by customer service types that it won't be upgraded, full stop. Any thoughts or help would be appreciated. Thanks

Martin


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## AMc

Simple really - a Freeview Tivo box with Video On Demand through ADSL please. 

Freesat would be a bonus as you get a bit more HD. I'd be happy to subscribe to phone and ADSL through Virgin (well I already do  ) in the same way as Sky give you "free" broadband and calls. I'd happily pay for Virgin Freeview Tivo, broadband and phone.


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## BrianHughes

AMc said:


> Simple really - a Freeview Tivo box with Video On Demand through ADSL please.
> 
> Freesat would be a bonus as you get a bit more HD. I'd be happy to subscribe to phone and ADSL through Virgin (well I already do  ) in the same way as Sky give you "free" broadband and calls. I'd happily pay for Virgin Freeview Tivo, broadband and phone.


Ditto. Simples...


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## steveroe

AMc said:


> Simple really - a Freeview Tivo box with Video On Demand through ADSL please.
> 
> Freesat would be a bonus as you get a bit more HD. I'd be happy to subscribe to phone and ADSL through Virgin (well I already do  ) in the same way as Sky give you "free" broadband and calls. I'd happily pay for Virgin Freeview Tivo, broadband and phone.


+2


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## Milhouse

I have a Virgin Media digital service, but Virgin Media won't sell it to me.

About 4-5 years ago my analogue cable box had to be swapped out and the engineer tested my cable feed and confirmed I was receiving both analogue and digital - he even left me with a fully enabled digital box for two weeks as he wasn't able to replace my analogue box.

It was a sad day when he returned to install the replacement analogue box. I called up Virgin Sales while we were both watching a perfect digital TV picture and were gobsmacked when Sales told me, categorically, that I did not have a digital service.

Me: "But I'm watching your digital service, right now!"
Virgin Sales: "No, you're not"

Needless to say I ended up switching to Sky, particularly as Virgin continued to shut down channels on the analogue service - I can't imagine there are many channels left.

If anyone from Virgin Media is interested in resolving the issue the postcode is CR0 1SZ and you could probably get yourselves close to 60 new customers (it's three blocks of flats) just by fixing your computer system. Feel free to PM me.


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## JudyB

Milhouse said:


> I have a Virgin Media digital service, but Virgin Media won't sell it to me.


This sounds similar to the situation one of my colleagues had a few years back. At the time BT were being very slow to roll out ADSL to anywhere remotely rural and there was a cable box at the end of his drive (probably NTL at the time) but no ADSL at the exchange. When he contacted the supplier about getting a broadband cable connection he was told that he could not sign up, despite the proximity of the box and many of his neighbours having a broadband service.

In his case the reason given was that the cabling quality was too poor and was not "good enough" to supply broadband (unless they were already supplying one!). In the end he waited a few more months and signed up for ADSL when it became available.


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## Milhouse

JudyB said:


> This sounds similar to the situation one of my colleagues had a few years back.


Yes, sounds very similar. When the engineer first came to see me he was surprised I couldn't get digital because he had installed it at a property just a few doors away from me the previous week, so I know that properties on my street have it, and can get it legitimately it's just the stupid VM computer that says "no".

I was discussing it with a friend this afternoon and if/when this TiVo box is launched I might be tempted to sign up with Virgin for service (giving a false or family address that has the digital service, ie. my parents address although the billing address would be my address as I'm not attempting to steal the service) and then obtain a TiVo box but just plug it into my cable. Convoluted, but should work, no? What's the authentication on the VM network, card+box?


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## tenwiseman

Hello Nero,

Funny coincidental name choice. There is a company called Nero that have worked with TiVo US on a product called LiquidTV.

Virgin now claim to have an Exclusive deal with TiVo for the UK. Would this exclusivity prevent Nero launching LiquidTV over here for freesat/freeview?

Not everyone is so keen on Cable!


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## dmchapman

Milhouse said:


> If anyone from Virgin Media is interested in resolving the issue the postcode is CR0 1SZ and you could probably get yourselves close to 60 new customers (it's three blocks of flats) just by fixing your computer system. Feel free to PM me.


Try contacting them via twitter? They've always been much more responsive and useful than the call centre IME...

http://twitter.com/VIrginmedia

And if we are collecting beta testers, count me in! I'm in Folkestone CT19.

Darren


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## magician

dmchapman said:


> Try contacting them via twitter? They've always been much more responsive and useful than the call centre IME...
> 
> http://twitter.com/VIrginmedia
> 
> And if we are collecting beta testers, count me in! I'm in Folkestone CT19.
> 
> Darren


ME TOO


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## browellm

Yep, count me in for beta testing .

Postcode: NG13


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## Nero2

Boys and Girls,

Perhaps I committed to helping a little bit too early, maybe overtaken with the collective excitement of a return of Tivo to these hallowed lands. At present there is very little (actually nothing) that Im able to divulge re the Tivo/Virgin tie up, but as soon as I can, I promise youll be the first to hear.

As to beta testers, I fully expect that Virgin Media will want some, as soon as the flag goes up I'll try to get you on the list.

Re the other issues you have with Virgin Media provisioning can I suggest that you follow Darrens tip and try the Twitter link:

http://twitter.com/VIrginmedia

, it is staffed by some very capable staff.

Thanks

Nero2


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## Nero2

tenwiseman said:


> Hello Nero,
> 
> Funny coincidental name choice. There is a company called Nero that have worked with TiVo US on a product called LiquidTV.
> 
> Virgin now claim to have an Exclusive deal with TiVo for the UK. Would this exclusivity prevent Nero launching LiquidTV over here for freesat/freeview?
> 
> Not everyone is so keen on Cable!


Nickname is just a coincidence - honest.

As yet cannot comment on the exclusivity.

Thanks

Nero2


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## bryl

If you need beta testers in the chester area (+20miles of fibre optic cable and set of croc clips?! ) Failing that pen me in for testing if a Tivo enabled 'virgin free tv' box ever materialises (with a few weeks notice I'm sure I can switch to virgin broadband )


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## ericd121

Nero2 said:


> As to beta testers, I fully expect that Virgin Media will want some, as soon as the flag goes up I'll try to get you on the list.


I, too, would put myself forward for beta testing.

Also, are all the Virgin workplaces in digital cabled areas?

Yes, I'm seriously thinking of applying for a job with them, but only if I can move to a 'Tivo' enabled area!


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## cyril

I'll be moving to a virgin cabled area from Jan 2010 to March 2010.
Is that enough time to be a beta-tester?


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## Davyburns

Nero2 said:


> As to beta testers, I fully expect that Virgin Media will want some, as soon as the flag goes up I'll try to get you on the list.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Nero2


Hi, I would also like to volunteer. I am currently with Virgin

Davy


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## magician

'Virgin confirmed it was replacing its existing TV infrastructure with a new IP-based TV transmission platform based on Cisco's Digital Video Headend technology. TiVo's hardware and software, which Virgin expects to make available during 2010, will run on this system'.............What happens to ALL existing boxes? is the front end the same?....does it just affect tx?


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## cwaring

ericd121 said:


> Also, are all the Virgin workplaces in digital cabled areas? Yes, I'm seriously thinking of applying for a job with them, but only if I can move to a 'Tivo' enabled area!


I know of people who work for Virgin who don't live in areas served by VM  I wouldn't mind a job with them either, but I wouldn't be able to move to get one. I'm hoping they might open a "VM Shop" here in Harrogate. (Yes, I know there's one in Leeds but it's not so convenient to get to on a daily basis!)


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## DeadKenny

Milhouse said:


> Me: "But I'm watching your digital service, right now!"
> Virgin Sales: "No, you're not"


When I first got mine installed (they were CableTel at the time, just before they bought NTL and took their name), the flat downstairs had cable, but they refused to believe I could get cable. "Computer says no" basically. According to them the postcode said the street wasn't cabled and yet look out of my window and half the houses have cable, there's a cable cabinet just a few doors down, and their name on plates on the floor.

It took a strongly worded letter to head office to convince them.

That was the biggest mistake I made though. I should have steered clear of them, but getting cable was the start of a huge nightmare.


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## beastman

question = when is this going to be available?
suggestion = give me a shiny new box to beta "test"  (Stockport SK3)


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## cwaring

You can form a (dis)orderly queue behind me and the rest of us


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## ptruman

Where do we start? 

I personally like the V+ box existing setup, although it has flaws which I'd like to see "cured" :

a) If you're watching an HD channel/recording and something happens (another recording) the one you're watching goes all stuttery unless you pause/rewind a sec and carry on

b) Both SCARTS should ideally be RGB (widescreen switching!)

But, on the TiVo specific front, I'd like :

c) As close to the TiVo interface as we can get (i.e. thumbs up/down, search by title/keyword/genre etc etc)

d) Therefore a decent EPG with (at least) a two week view. I already pay TiVo £10 a month for this, so wouldn't object to paying Virgin (up to) that £10 for the same service

e) Full integration with V+, i.e. making TiVo Home/Central the interface to the Virgin V+ content - as it's "on demand" & available. Maybe include that content (live searched) in the search facility (i.e. find "Bernard" would find anything with Bernard Cribbins on "live" TV, and "Bernard" in Black Books on V+)

f) Maybe have the option to "record & keep" stuff from V+, so you don't miss it when it cycles out

g) Expandable hard drives? (or NAS connected?)

h) Definitely keep the triple tuner setup in the V+ box - that's a MUST have

i) An export option (even if it's DRMd - I'd like to watch my TV via my PC, or my PSP for example, which I can with PSP/PS3 PlayTV)

Oh yes, and I'd happily trial it - we have a hacked TiVo (250GB), 10MB cable V+ HD service 

Any more ideas?


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## TCM2007

ptruman said:


> Where do we start?
> 
> I personally like the V+ box existing setup, although it has flaws which I'd like to see "cured" :
> 
> a) If you're watching an HD channel/recording and something happens (another recording) the one you're watching goes all stuttery unless you pause/rewind a sec and carry on
> 
> b) Both SCARTS should ideally be RGB (widescreen switching!)


If it's HD, why would you use SCARTs?


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## deshepherd

Having decided against going V+ the features that need to be changed for the TiVo version are

- implement "keep-at-most" option for SP ... my sons have phases of programs they are into so if its "scooby doo", "ben 10" or whatever I'm happy to set up a SP with a "keep at most 2" knowing that if (as tends to happen) there's a program 3 or 4 times a day then the disk wont get filled with this (or worse still, if you fail to spot ScoobyDoo weekend!)

- implement "save until I delete" .... its useful to be able to keep stuff that we know we want to watch but not quite yet - from what I gathered V+ implemented a simple FIFO system which just doesn't suit the usage we've developed through TiVo

- as already mentioned having as much advance EPG as possible.

- bigger disks if VM are serious about rolling out HD channels.

- decent response to the UI ... big factor in not going for V+ was the appalling interaction speed from my V-box if i ever delve into the catchup TV menus ... we're talking about waiting 5-10 secs for display to update in response to a key press which makes scrolling through the alphabetic lists extremely hard!


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## mikerr

ptruman said:


> Full integration with VoD, i.e. making TiVo Home/Central the interface to the Virgin VoD content - as it's "on demand" & available. Maybe include that content (live searched) in the search facility (i.e. find "Bernard" would find anything with Bernard Cribbins on "live" TV, and "Bernard" in Black Books on VoD)


+1

SPs don't need to record (and cause clashes) if its available on demand, 
so it could have "virtual recordings" in now playing, which are just tags into the VoD system.

Doing it that way, even the dumb non-PVR boxes could possibly have limited "recording" functionality 
- storagewise it would only be keeping track of links to VoD programmes, nothing more.


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## TimCullen

I too would like to volunteer as a Beta tester. I use both V+ and Thomson Scenium Tivo boxes at present so know both pretty well.


Tim


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## deshepherd

mikerr said:


> +1
> 
> SPs don't need to record (and cause clashes) if its available on demand,
> so it could have "virtual recordings" in now playing, which are just tags into the VoD system.


Hmm ... though going down this route is pretty much accepting a time limit on recordings ... I think most VOD progs are only available for 7 days after broadcast. I suppose this could be linked to a "record locally/link to VOD if available" option.

Sounds like something that could go wrong (plus, in my limited experience, VOD often in an "unavailable, try later" state) and, as above, invites a limit in how long you can expect to keep recordings which is not at all in line with TiVo usage in our house!


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## Major dude

ColinYounger said:


> Nero2 - how about putting our names forward for any pre-release testing?


Me too


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## childe

Just in case Nero is able to influence the selection of beta testers, please add me too.

I used to work in what was Telewest's product development dept and tried to persuade them (about 7 years ago I suppose) to work with Tivo when they were developing the TV Drive (which is now the V+ box). I was told this had been considered but rejected on the grounds of Tivo being too expensive, and because they needed to support their interactive services, which they thought Tivo could not do. I was very disappointed, and even more so when I saw my first V+ box - it can't even search by programme! I hope with this partnership we can finally get Tivo functionality into the V+


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## ericd121

cwaring said:


> I know of people who work for Virgin who don't live in areas served by VM


Which is why I asked the question.

I'm desperate to get a Virgin Media fibre with a Tivo on the end of it;
I'm not so desperate to work for Virgin Media: it's a means to an end
(i.e. an HD Tivo on a cheaper subscription).

*[Edit]* I realise my original question wasn't succinct enough to illicit the information I wanted. (Sorry Carl. ).
*
Revised Question.*

Which Virgin workplaces are in digital cabled areas?


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## NCG_Mike

I'm in Bristol on Virgin Media with a *terrible* set top box that needs to be unplugged after using the interactive stuff - even movies. I'd be up for testing a TiVo cable box as I miss using my old series one since it kept locking up.

Postcode is BS8.


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## Dave Parry

Seeing that everyone is keen to get on the Beta test bandwagon, so would I.
Already have VM digital and a tivo. RG12 area if that helps. :up:


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## Mark Bennett

Sky HD and Tivo here, but in a VM area and willing to Beta... 

GU14


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## warrenrb

I think they would definitely need a beta tester or two in Northern Ireland... just in case, y'know, that makes a difference... 

And as a long-time VM/NTL/Cabletel customer and Tivo user, I seem to fit the bill...

Joking aside, it would be a nice reward for our dogged persistence and loyalty to Tivo over all these years, wouldn't it?


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## Ovit-UK

Another Belfast person still using my Tivo with a V+ 


More than happy to offer my services as a tester 


Ovit


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## ptruman

TCM2007 said:


> If it's HD, why would you use SCARTs?


VCR/DVD output?  (why lose what you've got already, and you therefore don't force everyone to have to go buy an HDMI enabled recorder)


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## itm

Yep I'd love to beta test also. I'm an existing Virgin customer with an old original Tivo, West London (Richmond)


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## microbe

Band waggon -> Jump on!
Cable from TW since 199something, Tivo likewise from the good old days when they were finding oddities in the back of Comet and Powerhouse warehouses and had forgoten what they were so sold off cheap!
Also got a "lovely" freeview PVR, probably third maybe fourth in as many years as they're soooo reliable compared to Tivo (not).
Would love to give a new box a run for the money, so long as it's a parallel trial run alongside the existing set up, just in case. For Some reason wifey isn't as enthused as us lot, why mess with it if it works.
Good question.

Paul


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## UncUgly

I love a good band wagon !

North Surrey / South London ex TW area. No longer with Virgin, but looking to move off Sky. All my family are enthusiastic about Tivo, and my 14 yr old daughter was quietly excited about the ability to record 2 and watch a third channel, and please that Virgin also have Sky One as she 'couldn't cope with out her House fix'

Chris


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## ally

i would be interested in beta testing this too, i am in newcastle on telewest.


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## royfox

Hi All.
I've been working away for a while but am still running my TIVO (god bless it) and have Virgin installed. 
I have tried the V+ box and it was better in my opinion than the Sky+ box.

I seem to have missed the announcement from Virgin / TIVO. Does anyone have a link to the story?

I would very much like TIVO back into the UK either as a standalone or indeed built into the V+ box. Sounds like a fantastic plan to me.

Im currently paying (and have been for nearly 9 years now) my 10 pounds a month sub to TIVO, would be happy to pay this to whom ever in the future.

PS.. Would love to beta test this service. May be an ideal candidate as i myself are a self confessed gadget freak.. in fact if you google gadget.. it has a picture of me holding one..
On the flip side. My wife hates gadgets BUT she absolutely loves TIVO, in fact, it was said recently that TIVO would be the only gadget she would insist we have.. 

So we could cover both aspects in one household..


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## cwaring

royfox said:


> I seem to have missed the announcement from Virgin / TIVO.


How?  



> Does anyone have a link to the story?


http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...for-next-generation-tv-platform-72852687.html
http://pressoffice.virginmedia.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=205406&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1359213&highlight=



> May be an ideal candidate ....


Aren't we all


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## royfox

Hi Carl.. trust you are well?
Thanks for the links..

I've been working in China for a while.. hence, missed the news.. good to hear this is a big possibility. I mentioned to my wife last night.. she is really pleased..

Having read the press release.. it's more than a big possibility.. its a done deal.. thats great news. Well done to Virgin and Tivo..


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## cwaring

I'm fine thanks Roy. You also missed the 'sticky' thread at the top of this very forum


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## -MC-

If there is going to be a beta list put me down for it, Im already a Virgin customer with Virgin broadband and phone.Had Tivo since the first month it was released


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## royfox

cwaring said:


> I'm fine thanks Roy. You also missed the 'sticky' thread at the top of this very forum


DOH.


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## DeadKenny

ptruman said:


> VCR/DVD output?  (why lose what you've got already, and you therefore don't force everyone to have to go buy an HDMI enabled recorder)


Since using TiVo S1 and now Sky+HD I never "archive" anything off the box.

Anything that's really a keeper I can get on DVD, Blu Ray or other means at a better quality than recording crummy analogue signals via SCART (even with RGB it's still not perfect).

No, we finally have a chance to get rid of the god awful SCART sockets the Europeans forced on us. Terrible terrible design and massive waste of space. HDMI means companies can use the same design for European models as anywhere else without compromises to make room for the stupidly large daft SCART sockets. Finally we have connectors that don't fall out easily, bend the pins (or snap off and get stuck in the socket), and can't easily have two connectors next to each other due to the stupid design of the cables (TiVo S1 !).

Good riddance to SCART I say:up: (not that this VM box will get rid of them unless it's purely just for HD users).


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## cyril

DeadKenny said:


> Since using TiVo S1 and now Sky+HD I never "archive" anything off the box.
> 
> Anything that's really a keeper I can get on DVD, Blu Ray or other means at a better quality than recording crummy analogue signals via SCART (even with RGB it's still not perfect).
> 
> No, we finally have a chance to get rid of the god awful SCART sockets the Europeans forced on us. Terrible terrible design and massive waste of space. HDMI means companies can use the same design for European models as anywhere else without compromises to make room for the stupidly large daft SCART sockets. Finally we have connectors that don't fall out easily, bend the pins (or snap off and get stuck in the socket), and can't easily have two connectors next to each other due to the stupid design of the cables (TiVo S1 !).
> 
> Good riddance to SCART I say:up: (not that this VM box will get rid of them unless it's purely just for HD users).


Agreed, though having extra outputs that are always on is useful for distributing the signal to other TVs round the house e.g. my SkyHD box has HDMI to an amp and to 2 HD monitors, component to another HD monitor, scart to TiVo, scart to another TV and RF to rest of TVs such as the bathroom TVs...
I also used to use the SkyHD boxes composite output to a small LCD until it broke.

So an old SkyHD box can output to 6+ Tvs simultaneously!


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## iankb

DeadKenny said:


> Finally we have connectors that don't fall out easily, bend the pins (or snap off and get stuck in the socket) ...


'Though a DVI cable with a DVI-HDMI adaptor plugged into an HDMI socket isn't much better.


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## iankb

DeadKenny said:


> ... we finally have a chance to get rid of the god awful SCART sockets the Europeans forced on us.


Don't blame the stupidity of the French on to the rest of Europe.


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## cyril

iankb said:


> 'Though a DVI cable with a DVI-HDMI adaptor plugged into an HDMI socket isn't much better.


Size-wise HDMI is fantastic.
However it has serious problems -

a) HDCP isn't always reliable
b) doesn't work well or at all over long distances (tops out at about 20m)
c) Unlike all other AV cables almost impossible to fix yourself -probably a deliberate ploy by manufacturers so they can sell you new cables- very un-eco-friendly!
d) much less bend proof at the neck than other AV cables - so you need a bit more free space when installing equipment unless you have an angle-adapter in which case the cable is a bit more likely to fall out
e) very expensive for 10m to 20m cables


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## mrtickle

For all its faults, if it wasn't for scart we wouldn't have RGB quality pictures from our TiVos, DVD players, games consoles, digital TV set-top-boxes, etc. It's a massive leap over composite and has far more bandwidth than S-Video too. Just remember while you criticise it that over in the USA (pre-HDMI), only the expensive top-end equipment had component out, the equivalent to RGB. And it didn't include TiVo series 1! Whereas we had RGB (via scart) on almost _everything_.


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## gazter

mrtickle said:


> For all its faults, if it wasn't for scart we wouldn't have RGB quality pictures from our TiVos, DVD players, games consoles, digital TV set-top-boxes, etc. It's a massive leap over composite and has far more bandwidth than S-Video too. Just remember while you criticise it that over in the USA (pre-HDMI), only the expensive top-end equipment had component out, the equivalent to RGB. And it didn't include TiVo series 1! Whereas we had RGB (via scart) on almost _everything_.


Which is why HDTV was such a big deal in the US, while here, it got a more functionary grunt.

When an american got a hdtv picture he was not only getting the advantage of an increased resolution, but a much improved connection. Composite really is pants, utterly awful, while RGB gives a lovely crisp screen.

I remember with the original playstation and PS2, the difference between composite and rgb was utterly staggering, americans never got to see the difference.
It is understandable why us Brits, used to seeing a 720x576 picture over rgb, werent that fussed with HD.


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## Sneals2000

gazter said:


> Which is why HDTV was such a big deal in the US, while here, it got a more functionary grunt.
> 
> When an american got a hdtv picture he was not only getting the advantage of an increased resolution, but a much improved connection. Composite really is pants, utterly awful, while RGB gives a lovely crisp screen.
> 
> I remember with the original playstation and PS2, the difference between composite and rgb was utterly staggering, americans never got to see the difference.
> It is understandable why us Brits, used to seeing a 720x576 picture over rgb, werent that fussed with HD.


Yep - particularly as most UK broadcasters started to upgrade their production infrastructure to SDI component digital, and widescreen, in the mid-90s, so that the digital platforms had nice clean component digital source pictures to deliver to our RGB connected SD displays.

Many US local stations were (some still are) still running composite 4:3 studios upconverted to HD for their local stuff, so even if you are watching a 1080i station feed via HDMI you get a composite footprint on some stuff...

(And anyway PAL 4.43MHz composite analogue broadcasts usually looked a lot nicer than NTSC 3.58MHz composite analogue broadcasts once you got them to a domestic display, and NICAM 728kbps audio sounded a lot nicer than the dual-FM stereo MITS or similar system used in the US...)


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## katman

The basic concept behind the SCART was good, the only problems with it are...

1. The physical connector - a D-type locking connector would have been much better.

2. The fact that they *tried* to make it bidirectional but that only works for composite signals. For S-video or RGB it is unidirectional. - They should have used separate connectors for IN and OUT and they should have been Male and Female connectors so that leads could be daisychained together and also you could just plug the two ends together if you removed a peice of equipment.

3. No switching signal for S-Video - The original spec was only for RGB and Composite, when S-Video was added, they didnt make any provision for automatic switching. I have some TVs that can be set to accept S-video if Pin 8 is asserted but other Tvs that default to Composite and you have to manually switch to S-video

I tend to make my own leads and only wire the pins I need, I also avoid the "hi end" leads that have thick unflexible cable as the strain they exert on the connectors is what either pulls the plugs out of the sockets or breaks the solder joints on single sided PCBs inside equipment.


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## TCM2007

SCARTs; I remember them. Got some in the attic somewhere.


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## BrianHughes

TCM2007 said:


> SCARTs; I remember them. Got some in the attic somewhere.


They're protected. You won't be able to get rid of them you know


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## DeadKenny

katman said:


> 1. The physical connector - a D-type locking connector would have been much better.


The way most manufacturers have the cable sticking out of the connector from the side was stupidity in itself. TiVo being a classic example of the problem as I had a hard time forcing two connectors to sit side by side because of this.



> 3. No switching signal for S-Video - The original spec was only for RGB and Composite, when S-Video was added, they didnt make any provision for automatic switching. I have some TVs that can be set to accept S-video if Pin 8 is asserted but other Tvs that default to Composite and you have to manually switch to S-video


Switching was another annoyance. RGB and widescreen switching signals often had problems with certain brands of TV that seem to have different tolerances to the voltage level to switch, and then SCART switcher boxes often would mess up the signals too.

Still, we have a hassle with HDMI in the form of handshaking issues, especially with HDCP. Occasionally get my HD DVD player deciding HDCP is not supported and so it will only output 576p. Flick the input back and forth and it says yes to 1080p finally. But then I guess we have Hollywood to blame for that one (copy protection requirements).


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## mrtickle

Personally I'd blame the manufacturer of that HD-DVD player, or that TV, or both - and get them to fix it under warranty/Sale of Goods Act (unfit for purpose)! They've not properly implemented the spec by the sounds of it? You shouldn't be suffering even intermittent problems.


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## Pine Cladding

Put me down as another "Shove my head in the sand" but having sent my faithful TiVo in the loft about 9 months ago, this is new (good) news to me. How long have all us Vrgin customers been telling them that they need an EPG along the line of our beloved TiVo's. My wife still can't get used to the current V+ offering and longs for the simplicity of the TiVo box - Hurrah! I say!

And yes, another Beta test volunteer here if they need one


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## OzSat

TCM2007 said:


> SCARTs; I remember them. Got some in the attic somewhere.


SCART is the only video output which works correctly on a SkyHD box. They took the ratio switching off the HDMI when in HD mode.

I know HD should be 16:9 - but not all material is 16:9.

Every other piece of HD kit I have puts in the borders when required for 4:3 material - but still keeps 1080i/p mode.


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## Sneals2000

ozsat said:


> SCART is the only video output which works correctly on a SkyHD box. They took the ratio switching off the HDMI when in HD mode.


If you run the Sky HD box in Automatic (i.e. not a permanent 1080i, 720p etc.), you DO get 576p with aspect ratio signalling when watching 16:9 and 4:3 SD channels.

Doesn't stop the 576i to 576p de-interlacing being totally pants... (The RGB SCART output is better for SD 576i channels if your TV does a better job of de-interlacing, and the chances are it does...)


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## OzSat

Sneals2000 said:


> If you run the Sky HD box in Automatic (i.e. not a permanent 1080i, 720p etc.), you DO get 576p with aspect ratio signalling when watching 16:9 and 4:3 SD channels.
> 
> Doesn't stop the 576i to 576p de-interlacing being totally pants... (The RGB SCART output is better for SD 576i channels if your TV does a better job of de-interlacing, and the chances are it does...)


When SkyHD first launched it did 4:3/16:9 switching in all modes - but not for all tvs.

Rather than fix it for all tvs - or leave it for those that it would work on and tough for those tvs which wouldn't except it - they removed it completely.

V+HD gives you the choice of seeing the 4:3 picture as it should be by putting in the bars left/right - or distorting the picture beyond belief by stretching it - which many people seem to think is better.


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## mrtickle

Sneals2000 said:


> If you run the Sky HD box in Automatic (i.e. not a permanent 1080i, 720p etc.), you DO get 576p with aspect ratio signalling when watching 16:9 and 4:3 SD channels.
> 
> Doesn't stop the 576i to 576p de-interlacing being totally pants... (The RGB SCART output is better for SD 576i channels if your TV does a better job of de-interlacing, and the chances are it does...)


That sounds pants in itself, too. It should output 576i and leave the de-interlacing to the display, or at the very least make it a user-configurable option. It seems that you're forced to choose between losing aspect ratio switching, suffering poor de-interlacing, or downgrading to an analogue output. Typical Sky.


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## DeadKenny

ozsat said:


> SCART is the only video output which works correctly on a SkyHD box. They took the ratio switching off the HDMI when in HD mode.


Is anything other than 16:9 in the HDMI spec?

Any "switching" would have to actually involve hard matting black bars into the picture in the box. Like how Sky do 4:3 material on their HD channel. I don't think you can send a switching signal down the HDMI cable like you could with SCART.



Sneals2000 said:


> If you run the Sky HD box in Automatic (i.e. not a permanent 1080i, 720p etc.), you DO get 576p with aspect ratio signalling when watching 16:9 and 4:3 SD channels.
> 
> Doesn't stop the 576i to 576p de-interlacing being totally pants... (The RGB SCART output is better for SD 576i channels if your TV does a better job of de-interlacing, and the chances are it does...)


Problem with auto is you can get problems with handshaking on some set ups if it's often switching between modes, and then the TV has to upscale 576p (and mine is not as good at it as the Sky box is).


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## mrtickle

DeadKenny said:


> Any "switching" would have to actually involve hard matting black bars into the picture in the box. Like how Sky do 4:3 material on their HD channel.


Yes. This is what everyone else's hardware except Sky's does with 4:3 material (exaggeration but you get the point - Freesat HD and Virgin cable HD boxes do it). The *box*, not the broadcaster, creates the pillarboxed output based on the user's local setup choices - so it's still always 16:9 - when it is outputting 4:3 material. Sky's box doesn't bother and just sends the 4:3 to the display, leaving the display to deal with it :-(.


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## AndyW

Me too on the beta please (Guildford GU4). Early Tivo user and current V+ customer, and hoping for all of the above to be incorporated and decent navigation within a programme too - fast forwarding then jumping back a few seconds once you press play, jumping half an hour at a time, etc. 
Ta - Andy


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## WasBeen

Glad the bandwaggon is still rolling, I've got my login now and want to leap on with both feet.

Got V+ & TiVo in Essex, and think cable+TiVo would be a hands down winner!


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## OzSat

When SkyHD first launched the SkyHD box would signal via HDMI for the tv to switch to 4:3 when required even if in 720 or 1080 mode.

A lot of people complained that their tv wouldn't switch and when it was thought they would fix it for all tvs - it was completely removed from 720/1080 mode.

I have a HD versions of Freesat and VM boxes, and two blueray players - all of them generate the black bars left/right rather than signaling the tv to switch - but the visable results is the same.

Seems beyond Sky - but then so many people prefer the distorted pictures in 16:9 mode.


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## Filw

Hello, (yet another) Tivo and V+ user here in BN3 would like to join in with any testing of the new Virgin Tivo box. 

Cheers

Phil


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## swanny

And another beta volunteer here:

Samsung V+ box in GU14 area. Just retired my series 1 TiVo after 8 years of brilliant service.


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## m1ke

Nero2 said:


> Boys and Girls,
> 
> As to beta testers, I fully expect that Virgin Media will want some, as soon as the flag goes up I'll try to get you on the list.
> 
> Nero2


Im a long time Tivo owner and am in a Virgin cable area - i'd definitely act as a beta tester given the chance (and happily jump ship from my current sky sub  to get there too)

But, despite the constant offers I get in the post from Virgin, I dont yet have cable. I'm not going to sign up just yet otherwise i fear it'll be like $ky (where the existing in contract customers arent eligable for any 'new' offers) theyre only interested in the *new* customers.

So assume if i already had a cable sub and V+ box they wont be interested in upgrading me to a newer Tivo enabled one, but as a new subscriber/customer there'd a much better chance....?


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## cwaring

m1ke said:


> So assume if i already had a cable sub and V+ box they wont be interested in upgrading me to a newer Tivo enabled one...


Rubbish! Seriously? Why would they exclude the majority of their user-based from having a new TivoV+? Doesn't make _any_ sense


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## m1ke

cwaring said:


> Rubbish! Seriously? Why would they exclude the majority of their user-based from having a new TivoV+? Doesn't make _any_ sense


simply because looking at any sky offer it always says "applies to new customers only"

so, similarly, why would Virgin want to spend more money on supplying new/updated kit to their existing customers for no payback? (effectively making a loss on the old kit, as theyre recovering the cost of supplying that 'old' box through your subscription)

....to them it makes a lot of sense (ie makes more money)


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## OzSat

cwaring said:


> Rubbish! Seriously? Why would they exclude the majority of their user-based from having a new TivoV+? Doesn't make _any_ sense


I don't think they will upgrade customers from V+ to the new TiVo service - unless they get a fee or subscription increase in return.


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## cwaring

m1ke said:


> so, similarly, why would Virgin want to spend more money on supplying new/updated kit to their existing customers for no payback?


No-one mentioned "no payback"  There's a price rise coming in April, so that'll help towards it


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## OzSat

My guess of the TiVo will cost &#163;10pm extra and will have an installation charged applied to.


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## mikerr

Not from the way the announcement read to me.

TiVo will be the "exclusive supplier of software" to both PVR and non-PVR boxes.

I really doubt VM is going to have a 2 separate PVRs,
the VM TiVo will be replacing V+ and will be a way of VM beating SkyHD for features.

Also from the announcement it seems the TiVo software will be rolled out at the same time as the move to IP infrastructure, 
which will probably be new boxes anyway.


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## mrtickle

I agree with all of that, mikerr. It all points to 100&#37; of the existing Virgin PVR and non-PVR boxes being replaced with TiVos, or, the new "non-recording cable STBs with the TiVo interface" (a world first?). Logically this would be at the same time that customer's street is swapped over to the new IP infrastructure mentioned in the Cisco press release - a huge upgrade rollout which will take months. 

Perhaps some parts of the country which are later down the order in the upgrade programme will still have to supply unlucky new customers with V+ boxes for a temporary period, long after their friends in other areas already have TiVos!


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## britcub

I thought they could add TiVo software to existing V+ boxes via a software update?


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## mikerr

They could do an OTA upgrade (and we know the same hardware that V+ is based on has TiVo software in the US),
but it all depends on how accurate the wording of that announcement is.

As it stands it pretty much reads that TiVo software is for ALL boxes on the new IP infrastructure they are moving to. 
Whether that needs new boxes in the home, or just software updates I don't know.


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## smokie

Oh Nero, I'm a bit late to this! Ex Telecential/NTL customer. now with 3 x V+ and a TiVo would love to be on any beta. I really need to get rid of one of the boxes under the telly. Not least because I have a regular STB feeding the TiVo next to the V+ and I haven;t found a way to control one without messing up the other.


btw I have a friend who I've been trying to help upgrade the HD in his V+. Anyone know where there is discussion on this, as two forums we've tried want to argue more about the legality than the practicality of it (I suspect it's because they haven't got a scooby, whereas I know from past experiences there are some really good tech people here)


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## cwaring

smokie said:


> btw I have a friend who I've been trying to help upgrade the HD in his V+. Anyone know where there is discussion on this, as two forums we've tried want to argue more about *the legality *than the practicality of it (I suspect it's because they haven't got a scooby, whereas I know from past experiences there are some really good tech people here)


They have a very good point, of course


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## mikerr

V+ upgrade is pretty easy, as the box itself will format any drive you put in.
Their software is locked into displaying 80 hours total, so the freespace gauge is wrong,
but other than that everything works without issue.

Older V+ boxes are IDE, Samsung ones are SATA.

Of course you can't then legally connect it back up to VM cable...


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## RichardJH

smokie said:


> Not least because I have a regular STB feeding the TiVo next to the V+ and I haven;t found a way to control one without messing up the other.


It is a shame that all the VM boxes respond to the same remote. I have a standard Pace VM box for my Tivo and a V+ box in the same AV stack and have used a stick on I/R emitter on the Pace box to allow Tivo to control it and then completely covered the front window of the Pace box with black gaffer tape. No more problems.

As for your other query re V+ box look here http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=664153

I am not saying it is legal but it appears that it can be done.


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## cwaring

mikerr said:


> Of course you can't then legally connect it back up to VM cable...


Of course, you can't even legally open it up in the first place


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## smokie

Thanks Carl, as I mentioned in my post I already know all that. I was looking for help on the stuff I don't know about... 

And thanks also to Richard - I'd seen that thread but forgotten about it. Although we already tried most of what's there. But I will give it another go.

Oh, and thanks to Mike too for his input...


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## tankstage

I have shrouded the front of my TiVo controlled box with silver foil. I found that even with various types of tape, the IR managed to get through.

Tank


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## BrianHughes

tankstage said:


> I have shrouded the front of my TiVo controlled box with silver foil. I found that even with various types of tape, the IR managed to get through.
> 
> Tank


And it's protected from CIA mind control too.


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## smokie

Mine are within feet of each other inside a useless "media cabinet", and I need to be able to control both from the same place, although you've given me inspiration to think of a better way of doing things 90% of the time...


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## RichardJH

smokie said:


> Mine are within feet of each other inside a useless "media cabinet", and I need to be able to control both from the same place, although you've given me inspiration to think of a better way of doing things 90% of the time...


Why do you need to control both from a remote when it is best to let the Tivo control its attached STB.


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## smokie

Well that's what's slowly dawning on me. The TiVo output is piped through to the kitchen, where we sometimes watch a recording, or sometimes live TV while a recording is happening. (It's a kitchen/diner so often eat snacky meals there, and use the time to review and delete some of the Suggestions that have been recorded). We control it using a remote in the kitchen and a sender thingy. We also watch TiVo output mostly recorded) in the lounge so need to be able to control it from there. 

Can't pipe the V+ around because the other outputs are disabled due to using HDMI output.

I need to think this through!


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## RichardJH

smokie said:


> Well that's what's slowly dawning on me. The TiVo output is piped through to the kitchen, where we sometimes watch a recording, or sometimes live TV while a recording is happening. (It's a kitchen/diner so often eat snacky meals there, and use the time to review and delete some of the Suggestions that have been recorded). We control it using a remote in the kitchen and a sender thingy. We also watch TiVo output mostly recorded) in the lounge so need to be able to control it from there.
> 
> Can't pipe the V+ around because the other outputs are disabled due to using HDMI output.
> 
> I need to think this through!


This thread may be of help http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=342752&highlight=tvlink+plus

I have now done away with the wireless sender and use the TVLink Plus setup http://www.tvlink.co.uk/tvlinkplus.htm I bought mine on Ebay.

I use mine to control 4 items just double up on the IR emitters by using a double 2.5 headphone adapter and an extra set of emitters


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## nbaker

Any news on beta tests yet? another willing volunteer here NG31 area.


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## beastman

anyone here got an idea of the release date and price for this box?


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## cwaring

Nope. No details yet.


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## OzSat

beastman said:


> anyone here got an idea of the release date and price for this box?


Digital Spy said Q4 - no price given


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## mikerr

Some news links:

Virgin Media confirms Q4 launch:
http://digitalspy.co.uk/digitaltv/news/a252009/virgin-media-confirms-q4-tivo-launch.html

Virgin Media TiVo to include "web apps" and mobile viewing:
http://paidcontent.co.uk/article/41...ia-plans-tivo-web-apps-beside-web-mobile-vod/


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## cyril

I'm moving to a Virgin cable area today - someone sign me up for the beta!


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## Royalflush

I live in a cabled area and am currently using Freeview, I would love to be included in the beta as I am waiting until Tivo is unleashed before joining Virgin, is this likley to happen?


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## Davyburns

Why has this thread gone dead?


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## cwaring

Because there's nothing more to say yet?


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## Pete77

cwaring said:


> Because there's nothing more to say yet?


So either an xmas launch or not until 2011 it would appear.


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## Milhouse

Pete77 said:


> So either an xmas launch or not until 2011 it would appear.


Or both - a soft launch at Christmas, then full steam ahead in early 2011.


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## Pete77

Milhouse said:


> Or both - a soft launch at Christmas, then full steam ahead in early 2011.


Interesting article but from this it looks like Carl's parents would be better off not to move to Virgin Media until a new Virgin Tivo box is actually available.



> Virgin Media has turned to long-term supplier Cisco for its first 'TiVo inside' set-top when the navigation technology becomes the cableco's prime middleware later this year. *However, plans to retrofit TiVo into the operator's existing set-top boxes have hit a stumbling block after it emerged the technology was not suitable for all of the receivers currently deployed on the network.*
> 
> *A new Cisco personal video recorder is due to be shipped shortly before Christmas when TiVo will soft launch. The rollout is anticipated to get underway in earnest early in 2011. The manufacturer has already been named by Spanish cablenet ONO for its own TiVo*
> 
> In an investor call last week Virgin Media CEO Neil Berkett described TiVo as a platform that would work for the cableco's TV customers in the same way that DOCSIS 3 had been implemented for its broadband internet subscribers. *"We will be first mover into next generation TV and I think we will also be best mover. It will be a superior product to Sky's codename Darwin, it will be a better product than Canvas, and it will be first out".*
> 
> *In addition to new deployments it is hoped the TiVo software will be downloaded into a part of the existing installed base. "The current V+ HD, ie non-DVR boxes that we are sourcing from Cisco, are compatible with TiVo, so we could drop TiVo onto those, but the Samsung DVRs are not, so we would probably launch DVRs that we would source from Cisco initially and they would be new to requirements," said Berkett.*
> 
> He explained that TiVo boxes could be rolled out within the existing capital guidance and that if there were a suitable pricing mechanism found, this could be expanded further.


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## cwaring

Pete77 said:


> Interesting article but from this it looks like Carl's parents would be better off not to move to Virgin Media until a new Virgin Tivo box is actually available.


Too late. They're a month in and quite happy


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## Tony Hoyle

Won't be a problem anyway.. if Tivo needs a new box, VM will supply a new box (maybe with an upgrade fee). It's one of the few advantages of VM owning all the boxes.


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## Pete77

cwaring said:


> Too late. They're a month in and quite happy


What make of box do your parents have? I'm confused about all these Samsung DVRs that are now out there. I thought they were originally supposed to be using Scientific Atlanta kit, which is Tivo compatible.


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## cwaring

There are two models available. I have the older SA box (which is nearly as big as the Tivo!) while my parents have the newer, smaller, Samsung.


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## Pete77

cwaring said:


> There are two models available. I have the older SA box (which is nearly as big as the Tivo!) while my parents have the newer, smaller, Samsung.


So our campaign succeeded in persuading Virgin management of the wisdom of adopting the Tivo interface due to both its high level of functionality and its retro compatibility with the Scientific Atlanta PVR hardware but meanwhile the dumb bean counters at Virgin had started supplying Samsung DVR equipment to customers because it was presumably cheaper or may be just because it was smaller and neater?

It would be interesting to see figures for what percentage of current V+ boxes come from Scientific Atlanta and what percentage from Samsung but I expect they will no doubt be confidential.................

Anyhow its clear that your parents should have taken my advice to wait as they may now be amongst the last rather than the first to get a Virgin PVR with a Tivo interface.


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## cwaring

Pete77 said:


> So our campaign succeeded in persuading Virgin management of the wisdom of adopting the Tivo interface...


There is no evidence whatsoever to support this conclusion.


Pete77 said:


> Anyhow its clear that your parents should have taken my advice to wait as they may now be amongst the last rather than the first to get a Virgin PVR with a Tivo interface.


They have no clue you even exist. Never mind the fact that I haven't given then your "advice"


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## Pete77

cwaring said:


> There is no evidence whatsoever to support this conclusion.


But nor is there any firm evidence available that undermines it.

The fact is that you yourself set up a petition in this regard and that a large number of existing UK Tivo owners also emailed senior manager at Virgin Media and/or their customer services department to draw attention to both our own existing confidence in the Tivo interface and the potential of the Scientific Atlanta hardware to run a Tivo based application.

Less than a year later Virgin announced they were partnering with Tivo........


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## iankb

Pete77 said:


> So our campaign succeeded in persuading Virgin management of the wisdom of adopting the Tivo interface ...


In case you haven't noticed, TiVo owners are in the minority in this country; by a very large margin.

And since when have marketing people ever taken notice of a minority, even you Pete.


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## Pete77

iankb said:


> And since when have marketing people ever taken notice of a minority, even you Pete.


Quite often if they are themselves a member of that minority

Just look at some of the more oddball very small telephone exchanges with only 1,000 phone lines that happen to have been LLU enabled by one company while other much larger exchanges with up to 4,000 lines do not have any LLU enablement at all.


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## cwaring

Pete77 said:


> But nor is there any firm evidence available that undermines it.


True. Unfortunately, we will never know the truth one way or the other.



> The fact is that you yourself set up a petition in this regard...


Yes and I'm pretty sure that, valiant effort though it was, it also had little impact on the decision. 1,000 people ain't much when you have a user-base measured in the millions.


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## Pete77

cwaring said:


> Yes and I'm pretty sure that, valiant effort though it was, it also had little impact on the decision. 1,000 people ain't much when you have a user-base measured in the millions.


But if 300 people write a letter in a short period suggesting the same policy change to a company its still considered to be a weighty input.

That's just because most of their customers are always far too busy watching The Simpsons or The Premier League to ever get up off their big fat behinds and put pen to paper.

The point is perhaps we were helping to reinforce an idea that one of The Directors already had but that he couldn't get anywhere with at Board Meetings without evidence there was more widespread love for the Tivo product in the UK amongst those who already had experience of it.

We may have helped provide that evidence. All I know is they were content with the usual rubbish interface for their DVRs and suddenly they had a Road to Damascus conversions and changed their collective corporate minds.

A Spanish cable company has also signed a deal with Tivo but that makes sense as the Spanish are a complicated lot who are passionate and motivated by things other just than the financial bottom line.


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## cwaring

Well I hope my petition helped, but I'm not convinced 



Pete77 said:


> A Spanish cable company has also signed a deal with Tivo but that makes sense as the Spanish are a complicated lot who are passionate and motivated by things other just than the financial bottom line.


They do indeed need Tivo over there. If for no other reason than to help viewers cope with the 15-20+ minute ad breaks


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## iankb

Pete77 said:


> But if 300 people write a letter in a short period suggesting the same policy change to a company its still considered to be ...


... spam.


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## FemiH

Why don't you just call them and ask them and settle this once and for all! Do big corporates listen to the little guys? Mebbe if the little guys put together a coherent argument...


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## dieselnutjob

I'm a bit late in on this....
I have a TiVo which was under heavy duty use until a few months ago when I got a V+ box.
The TiVo is actually still sat there hoovering up freeview programs that mostly don't get watched...
Anyway the reason I went for V+ was because with five people in the house the TiVos ability to only record one program at a time was starting to become an issue.
The V+ is a fantastic piece of kit, but it still only records what we tell it to record. So even now we might suddenly discover that a favourite series has started up again and we have already missed the first two weeks.
At that point I will look at the TiVo and 99% of the time it will have picked up those missing two programs because it already knew that we liked them.
For me this is the single biggest issue with the V+ box which is that you really have to know what's on to tell it to record it. 
The TiVo already know what we want to watch and records it anyway; what a fantastic idea.
Put that functionality into a V+ even without even changing the hardware and that would be an absolutely fantastic device.


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## aleks

At last - I've limping my poor prototype TiVo along for almost a decade. I tried a brief flirtation with a Humax but we really didn't understand each other. As soon as Virgin annunce their TiVo I'm there...


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## cwaring

Well they "announced" it last year, so what you waiting for?


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