# Netflix on TiVo



## Hew (Apr 18, 2004)

Its early December in few minutes. According to this article :http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/10/tivo-boxes-to-stream-netflix-movies-too-tivo-nflx- 
Netflix on TiVo goes live soon. I remember reading somewhere that it would be available on the 1st of December.

What are the chances that we'll see Netflix on Amazon before the end of tomorrow?


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## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

You might see Netflix around the 10 Dec. Every thing I read about it was around the first part of the month when it would start. When they start downloading HD I might start a subscription to Netflix.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I don't think we'll see it until after the new SW update gets to all the boxes.


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## Hew (Apr 18, 2004)

What is the SW update?


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## garrubal (Oct 17, 2008)

Hew said:


> What is the SW update?


Software update?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

They are referring to the new 11.0 software. TiVo rolled it out to a limited number of people to make sure there were no significant issues they had missed. Everyone is expected to get it later this month.


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## Hew (Apr 18, 2004)

Duh, of course sw means software update. Just didn't get it right away since I thought sw were two different words rather then SoftWare. Thanks for actually giving me the details bkdtv.

Have any of the thousands of beta testers posted any pics yet?


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## Rolow (Jun 1, 2004)

I have the 11.0 but no Netflix functionality yet.
My Roku used to get 4 dot for quality until netflix was released on the xbox 360 now most of the time its 2 dots. Some times it stops twice in a 43 minutes tv episode to buffer a problem I never had before the xbox360. I can only imagine what it will be like when they add Tivo users and HD


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## Aflat (Aug 29, 2005)

Netflix already streams in HD, but right now I think the 360 is the only box that can receive the HD. Not all titles are HD, They launched HD about 2 weeks ago with about 300 HD titles. A few of those titles are TV shows. Heroes, NCIS and Numb3rs can all be watched in HD, and even better you can watch them 1 day after they are shown on air. At least that is how it is supposed to work, I know the Nov 25th episode of NCIS was available on the 25th, by 9am EST, before it was shown on air, in the US(no clue if it aired somewhere else previously)


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Hew said:


> Have any of the thousands of beta testers posted any pics yet?


TiVo is known to run closed Betas with NDA - Non-Disclosure-Agreements


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Hew said:


> Duh, of course sw means software update. Just didn't get it right away since I thought sw were two different words rather then SoftWare. Thanks for actually giving me the details bkdtv.
> 
> Have any of the thousands of beta testers posted any pics yet?


tivo.com has a picture of the top level Netflix interface when you first click on Movies&Video link.


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

Aflat said:


> Netflix already streams in HD, but right now I think the 360 is the only box that can receive the HD. Not all titles are HD, They launched HD about 2 weeks ago with about 300 HD titles. A few of those titles are TV shows. Heroes, NCIS and Numb3rs can all be watched in HD, and even better you can watch them 1 day after they are shown on air. At least that is how it is supposed to work, I know the Nov 25th episode of NCIS was available on the 25th, by 9am EST, before it was shown on air, in the US(no clue if it aired somewhere else previously)


My Samsung Blu-Ray Bdp2550 is able to get the Netflix HD without a problem. I haven't noticed any difference in picture quality between my XBox 360 and my Samsung Blu-ray Player.

TGC

P.S. Keep in Mind though that while HD is better than the SD... it is NOWHERE NEAR the HD Quality you will get from a Blu-ray movie!


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## Eitel (Aug 25, 2003)

Is not part of an update. The Tivo boxes just need to be authorized to use the Netflix server. It will come out soon.


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## ldconfig (Sep 7, 2004)

When it hit the press every single article said dec 1 ... not the 10th not the 15th but the 1st. Two weeks ago i contacted Netflix and asked them when they said their side has been ready for months and just waiting on Tivo. I should order a roku or LG blu-ray cause that way it will get turned on about 30 seconds after my credit card gets charged ... thats how my luck always goes lol
have a great day
still stuck in 9.4
ld


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## djwilso (Dec 23, 2006)

ldconfig said:


> When it hit the press every single article said dec 1 ... not the 10th not the 15th but the 1st. Two weeks ago i contacted Netflix and asked them when they said their side has been ready for months and just waiting on Tivo. I should order a roku or LG blu-ray cause that way it will get turned on about 30 seconds after my credit card gets charged ... thats how my luck always goes lol
> have a great day
> still stuck in 9.4
> ld


Just have some patience. Why not set Jan 1 2009 as the date everything will be up and running in your mind and then you won't be disappointed when TiVo doesn't have it going on Dec 1 2008? It's only 31 more days.

I have a feeling that TiVo is doing everything that they can to get the software ready for the masses.

Dennis


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

The article linked to in the OP said "early December". Netflix just says December 2008. An article in the NYT just says it will be available


> in December.


 http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/30/technology/internet/30tivo.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

I haven't read a single article that promised availability on December 1.



ldconfig said:


> When it hit the press every single article said dec 1 ... not the 10th not the 15th but the 1st. Two weeks ago i contacted Netflix and asked them when they said their side has been ready for months and just waiting on Tivo. I should order a roku or LG blu-ray cause that way it will get turned on about 30 seconds after my credit card gets charged ... thats how my luck always goes lol
> have a great day
> still stuck in 9.4
> ld


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## discwog (May 12, 2008)

Sign up to get all the details from Tivo delivered to your e-mail here:

http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/netflix-signup.html?WT.ac=tivo_home_netflix_netflixprdet_tile

Netflix on TiVo will be available in December! TiVo customers will be able to instantly watch over 12,000 movie & TV episodes from Netflix via any broadband connected TiVo® HD, TiVo® HD XL and TiVo® Series3™ DVRs.


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## weldon (Jun 17, 2001)

I keep checking this thread, hoping to see something. I resubbed to Netflix this week, just so I could check this out on my Mac and on my TiVo. Can't wait to play with it!


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

Hew said:


> Its early December in few minutes. According to this article :http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/10/tivo-boxes-to-stream-netflix-movies-too-tivo-nflx-
> Netflix on TiVo goes live soon. I remember reading somewhere that it would be available on the 1st of December.
> 
> What are the chances that we'll see Netflix on Amazon before the end of tomorrow?


Sometime in December is correct.

Many of us have *YET* to get the Fall 2008 update. *NEITHER *of my TiVo S3/HD units have the update.

The update is *REQUIRED* before you can get Netflix. Thus... Netflix *WON'T *be turned "ON" until the full *ROLL OUT* of the FALL 2008 update has been *COMPLETED*!

Yes, many have it. Their TiVos are ready for the switch to turn *ON* netflix.

I am anxiously awaiting as well. I have tested Netflix on both my Blu-Ray and my XBox. It is quite nice. Even though their isn't any DD5.1 or a great selection.

*TGC*


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

Hew said:


> Its early December in few minutes. According to this article :http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/10/tivo-boxes-to-stream-netflix-movies-too-tivo-nflx-
> Netflix on TiVo goes live soon. I remember reading somewhere that it would be available on the 1st of December.
> 
> What are the chances that we'll see Netflix on Amazon before the end of tomorrow?


I was hoping it would be working on monday. I wanted to watch sliders from netflix on my tv


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## kosherbacon (Sep 12, 2005)

Hopefully when this is rolled out there will be a lot of HD content. It looks like Amazon unbox is going to offer in HD via TiVo soon, so you know that Netflix will as well. I predict HD contant might not come right away, but by the end of 2009, thousands of titles will be available.


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## Doh (May 18, 2001)

While we wait, I saw someone in the media today suggest that bluray might never take off if downloading HD takes off first. I think there will probably be a market for bluray, but I could see the average consumer settling for HD downloads. What do you think?


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## [email protected] (Dec 1, 2007)

Doh said:


> While we wait, I saw someone in the media today suggest that bluray might never take off if downloading HD takes off first. I think there will probably be a market for bluray, but I could see the average consumer settling for HD downloads. What do you think?


Won't happen as long as ISPs are setting ridiculously low caps for monthly bandwidth use - a single HD movie will put some folks over the limit.

Even the Comcast 250GB/month limit isn't enough for one movie a day, and you *know* some people are going to want to download more than that.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Doh said:


> While we wait, I saw someone in the media today suggest that bluray might never take off if downloading HD takes off first. I think there will probably be a market for bluray, but I could see the average consumer settling for HD downloads. What do you think?


 Apples and oranges. Blu Ray 1080p/24 titles generally consume >> 20 GB using VC-1 video. Contrast that to for example Netflix streaming 720p/30 HD titles around 2 GB/hour using VC-1 video. i.e. The quality gap is huge and closing the gap would mean an incredible amount of bandwidth needed for streaming to make them comparable.
Not to mention that currently for HD streaming you generally don't get lossless audio or even captions, etc. I see plenty of space for both methods to co-exist. If I want absolute best quality then Blu Ray is the way to go. If I want convenience then HD streaming has it's place. I like having option of both.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

moyekj said:


> Apples and oranges. Blu Ray 1080p/24 titles generally consume >> 20 GB using VC-1 video. Contrast that to for example Netflix streaming 720p/30 HD titles around 2 GB/hour using VC-1 video. i.e. The quality gap is huge and closing the gap would mean an incredible amount of bandwidth needed for streaming to make them comparable.
> Not to mention that currently for HD streaming you generally don't get lossless audio or even captions, etc. I see plenty of space for both methods to co-exist. If I want absolute best quality then Blu Ray is the way to go. If I want convenience then HD streaming has it's place. I like having option of both.


The issue is I don't think 99% of Americans care one bit about the difference. Cable companies are already compressing HD channels like crazy, and only a small few even notice. If streaming movies work and is integrated into the devices they use, they are not going to care about the quality difference.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Doh said:


> While we wait, I saw someone in the media today suggest that bluray might never take off if downloading HD takes off first. I think there will probably be a market for bluray, but I could see the average consumer settling for HD downloads. What do you think?


I am not one to chase the absolute video quality. I can see the differences when I look for them but they do not bug me if not there. I am not one to just pay to get the absolute best quality - I look for value point and ease of use.

I was almost ready to buy a Blu-ray player - but that was to get a netflix streaming device  with some other capability - not so much that i wanted Blu-Ray. Now TiVo will take care of that issue. I can stick with DVD player till then.

So my buying path is
look for LCD/plasma TV with tru2way built in
then get a blu ray player after they have been on market a while and matured
get TiVo with tru2way when it comes out.


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## Doh (May 18, 2001)

Interesting. I hadn't heard of tru2way before, but from what I can tell: 1) it seems like it will be a couple of years at best before it's widely available; and 2) if I really like my tivo, it seems as though I could just wait for it to be added to tivo.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

I think a Blu-ray player with a Netflix enabled TiVo is a good combination. You can get all of the latest movies in Blu-ray, and get lots of TV shows and older movies on demand through Netflix streaming. I've used my 360 for Netflix content and for HD content, the quality is ok. Unless it is an action movie, I don't think I would even bother getting it in Blu-ray if I can just stream it. A great action movie with good sound will still be worth it to get on Blu-ray though.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Doh said:


> Interesting. I hadn't heard of tru2way before, but from what I can tell: 1) it seems like it will be a couple of years at best before it's widely available; and 2) if I really like my tivo, it seems as though I could just wait for it to be added to tivo.


yes, my idea on my buying plan is to wait for what is coming. It was based out of being happy with the SD and little bit of HD world I am in now. YMMV.
Tru2waywill not be downloaded to any TiVo in use today. It needs new hardware and will be aprt of a series 4 that TiVo is working on now. Probably be out in 2010. Till then my Tivo HD and some series 2 DTs are doing me great. 
It really is more the TV I want tru2way enabled so I can use it without a cable box, but that is becuase I am not in any hurry to buy a big LCD TV today. YMMV.



rainwater said:


> I think a Blu-ray player with a Netflix enabled TiVo is a good combination.


I agree. If TiVo had not provided Netflix streaming I would have bought one now to get the streaming to the TV. When I do buy a Blu-ray I will have Netflix streaming on my checklist for comparing them.


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## Doh (May 18, 2001)

ZeoTiVo said:


> yes, my idea on my buying plan is to wait for what is coming. It was based out of being happy with the SD and little bit of HD world I am in now. YMMV.
> Tru2waywill not be downloaded to any TiVo in use today. It needs new hardware and will be aprt of a series 4 that TiVo is working on now. Probably be out in 2010. Till then my Tivo HD and some series 2 DTs are doing me great.
> It really is more the TV I want tru2way enabled so I can use it without a cable box, but that is becuase I am not in any hurry to buy a big LCD TV today. YMMV.


Are you planning on using the tru2way with the series 2?

I'm just trying to understand better. For a tv using a Tivo with cablecards (series 3 and later), tru2way doesn't seem to offer much benefit (except SDV?) and it seems tru2way tvs and series 4 may both be out around 2010 (I guess there are some tvs now, but 2010 was I think the Sony estimate).


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

When I had Netflix I remember that ,although you could watch the movie live, you could also wait for the movie to download before watching it. My connection is only 6 Mbps and certainly not enough for HD. Do you guys know how it will work on the S3 ?


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

slimoli said:


> When I had Netflix I remember that ,although you could watch the movie live, you could also wait for the movie to download before watching it. My connection is only 6 Mbps and certainly not enough for HD. Do you guys know how it will work on the S3 ?


 Netflix is strictly streaming only, no downloading, so I suspect on Tivo it will be same way just as it is with all current Netflix clients.
6 Mbps should be sufficient for Netflix HD streaming:
http://blog.netflix.com/2008/11/encoding-for-streaming.html


> We experimented with first-generation WMV3 encodes at 4000kbps and 5500kbps, but settled on second-generation HD encodes with VC1AP at 2600kbps and 3800kbps, which extends their accessibility down to lower home broadband connections.


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

Doh said:


> While we wait, I saw someone in the media today suggest that bluray might never take off if downloading HD takes off first. I think there will probably be a market for bluray, but I could see the average consumer settling for HD downloads. What do you think?


I think their will be a balance of both. Why?

What your *NOT* getting with HD downloads is a 30-50mbps 1080-24p picture. Your also *NOT *geting DTS-HD or DD-HD (5.1, 6.1, 7.1) Audio. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.

And finanly your* NOT *getting the "EXTRAS".

There are movies I could careless about the Extras, then there are some movies I *WANT* my extras. Millions of americans do, otherwise there wouldn't be *ANY* DVD's /Blu-Rays with extras at all!

Watching Old Movies or TV Shows in HD is great. Since they were made before DD5.1, 6.1 or 7.1, the audio is good enough for a download/stream.

However there are movies I would *NEVER* want to Stream/Download. My Star Trek/Star Wars Movies... The Pixar Films, Etc....

*CURRENTLY* you just *CAN'T* get the picture *AND* sound quality from a HD download/stream that you can get from a Blu-Ray.

Blu-ray will be around *until *which day you can get the *SAME PICTURE & SOUND *quality from a download/stream that you can get from a Blu-ray.

TGC


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Doh said:


> Are you planning on using the tru2way with the series 2?
> 
> I'm just trying to understand better. For a tv using a Tivo with cablecards (series 3 and later), tru2way doesn't seem to offer much benefit (except SDV?) and it seems tru2way tvs and series 4 may both be out around 2010 (I guess there are some tvs now, but 2010 was I think the Sony estimate).


you can not use tru2way on any existing TiVo out now.

tru2way will add Cable company VOD/PPV access and whatever other interactive stuff the cable company can come up with. SDV is also covered internally.
By then I expect we will have other media options form other sources on TiVo so if I buy a series 4 will depend on what new I think I get of course.
sadly it does look like cable cards will still be used with tru2way so that hassle remains but perhaps it will work better with tru2way. Won't know till it all comes out I guess.

and sure I will mainly use the TiVo tru2way and all, but some in my family still watch live TV  and getting one with tru2way would I hope make it simpler for them to access all the digital goodness without me telling them 20 times a month to change the channel on the cable box or else power it back up, etc.

but this is way off Netflix on TiVo so I'll be quiet on this now.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

Moyekj

Thank you for the excellent article.


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

rainwater said:


> The issue is I don't think 99% of Americans care one bit about the difference. Cable companies are already compressing HD channels like crazy, and only a small few even notice. If streaming movies work and is integrated into the devices they use, they are not going to care about the quality difference.


The quality difference on the cable networks isn't that much. I can barely notice the difference.

I CAN however notice the difference between blu-ray and the cable version.
Example: LOST on Blu-ray, and LOST on broadcast cable. THEIR is a DIFFERENCE.

There is also a HUGE HUGE Difference in quality between Blu-ray and HD Download/streaming. Picture and Audio.

Some movies/TV shows I want the ulitmate BEST quality I can get. Other Movies/TV Shows I don't care so much about. HD download/streams are fine.

I still *DON'T *Beleive your going to knock my Blu-ray off the market so soon. Especially since many cable companies are in fact putting download caps on their systems.

True 250gb/month is alot. Good enough for some. It isn't however good enough for me. I have been watching my download bandwidth ever since news of bandwidth caps has hit the news. I am of those few that easily go over. I am averaging about 600-700gb/month.

Then again I heavily use my Slingbox/Slingcatcher & I have Rhapsody running 24/7, Netflix streaming (currently Blu-ray/Xbox) as well as all the "normal" internet usage.

The other is cost as well. Those with *NETFLIX* streaming are *ALSO STILL* getting DVD/Blu-ray's in the mail. So I will still have a choice of both. Amazon Unbox HD will be strictly download. But I also won't be using Amazon Unbox HD because of cost. Netflix is cheaper for me in the long run.
For those only renting 3 movies a month or less... Amazon Unbox HD would probably be cheaper.

TGC


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

Doh said:


> Are you planning on using the tru2way with the series 2?
> 
> I'm just trying to understand better. For a tv using a Tivo with cablecards (series 3 and later), tru2way doesn't seem to offer much benefit (except SDV?) and it seems tru2way tvs and series 4 may both be out around 2010 (I guess there are some tvs now, but 2010 was I think the Sony estimate).


tru2way will be able to offer VOD, PPV, SDV as well as *NEW *services that aren't even currently being offered yet. tru2way will make our TV &/or TiVo's just like the cable company box's in that it can send DATA back *TO* the cable company as well.

2010 is the estimated time for tru2way TV's, TiVo's and other DVR's to hit the market in quantity.

I personally am not in a big hurry for tru2way devices. I dont' care about VOD or PPV never used them when I had them on the cable box. SDV isn't in our area so no rush their either. Personally I am taking the "Wait n see" approach to tru2way and waiting to see what other benifits and *VALUE* it will add.

Don't get me wrong. I am not against tru2way. Many like their Vod & PPV and have SDV issues as well. For those, tru2way will be the holy grail!

TGC


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

TexasGrillChef said:


> The quality difference on the cable networks isn't that much. I can barely notice the difference.
> 
> I CAN however notice the difference between blu-ray and the cable version.
> Example: LOST on Blu-ray, and LOST on broadcast cable. THEIR is a DIFFERENCE.


I have seen numerous studies about HDTV users. The majority are not even receiving HD service on their tv. Again, users of this forum in the minority. For most people, the HD quality that Netflix provides will be plenty good enough for movie watching. People who spent more than $300 on a Blu-ray player will obviously feel different. Of course they will notice the difference.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

rainwater said:


> The issue is I don't think 99% of Americans care one bit about the difference. Cable companies are already compressing HD channels like crazy, and only a small few even notice. If streaming movies work and is integrated into the devices they use, they are not going to care about the quality difference.


That's not true at all. Many people were not able to realize the difference until 50" and higher displays became affordable but when you drive a BMW it's very hard to be happy with a Corolla. Netflix will be a great addition because you can select thousands of titles and even hard to find movies but will take few years before it can match Bluray quality. I want Netflix and I want to keep renting BD.


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

*One thing I would like to note that has NOT been previously mentioned............*

While I do *LOVE* my blu-ray with it's superb picture & sound quality as well as all the cool BD-LIVE "EXTRAS".... Blu-ray's as well as DVD's are in fact *BAD *for our envirment. Blu-rays & DVD's are *NOT GREEN*!

The harmful chemicals & other products used in manufacturing the disks, the energy used in the production, transportation & sale of the disks, as well as the energy and chemicals used in the manufacturing/transportation of the DVD/Blu-ray case & inserts are very bad for our enviroment. Not to mention if you have to *DRIVE* your gas guzzling carbon emitting vehicle down to your local video store to buy/rent one of those DVD/Blu-rays, that even includes the DVD/Blu-rays delivered by the postman who is *DRIVING* as well.

Downloads/Streaming are *BETTER *and *"GREENER"* for our enviroment than the use of DVD's/Blu-rays.

Personally... what I would ulitmately love...

Have all the same picture AND sound quality as well as ALL the extras that BD-Live is offering ALL wrapped up into a download/stream.

For A download/Stream to "WORK" the same way a DVD/Blu-ray works with "MENUS" and "OPTIONS" etc...

When all that happens.. I will give up Blu-ray.

One other point.... This Christmas... over a million Blu-ray players will be sold in TEXAS alone at Best Buy & Circuit City. My local Best Buy for "Black Friday" received over 500 Blu-ray players and they almost sold out of all of them that day alone!

TGC


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

rainwater said:


> I have seen numerous studies about HDTV users. The majority are not even receiving HD service on their tv. Again, users of this forum in the minority. For most people, the HD quality that Netflix provides will be plenty good enough for movie watching. People who spent more than $300 on a Blu-ray player will obviously feel different. Of course they will notice the difference.


I will agree with you to some point, and many at least up till this christmas are still using OLD NON-HD TV's... even many millions of americans will *STILL *be on OLD NON-HD TV's even after this Christmas and the 2-17-09 cut off.

For those... of course downloads/streaming will be no worse than even DVD. HD streaming will even be a moot point for them

The vast majority of those who have spent $300 or more on a Blu-ray player (Not counting the PS/3) are also those that more than likely also have one of the higher end larger size HD-TV's. Where picture quality is easier to notice than on a 32" or smaller screen.

Many even claim that on a 32" or smaller HD-TV screen you can't even notice the difference between 1080i/p and 720p.

I do have a decent quality 32" LCD HD-TV in my bedroom. I have not yet hooked up my Blu-ray or XBox to test Netflix &/or Blu-ray quality on it. I do have a TiVo HD hooked to it. Once Netflix is available on the TiVo (Which I am looking forward too) I will compare quality of netflix on it to my 65" Pioneer Elite Plasma.

Sorry to digress there. My point being is that *ALOT* depends on the TV set your using. The smaller your set is the less your going to notice the difference. Example my 65" plasma picks up imperfections in OTA broadcasts. My 32" doesn't.

So I agree with you in that those with smaller sets, older sets are NOT going to care about picture quality as much and as long as they are getting somewhat satisfactory picture.

Then again think of it like this too... if the *MASS PUBLIC DIDN"T* want better Picture & Sound Quality. We *WOULDN"T* have HD at all!

We have HD capability because at the heart of everything, in *TRUTH*... we all do in fact want the *BEST* picture and sound quality available... As long as it is *affordable*!

TGC


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

slimoli said:


> That's not true at all. Many people were not able to realize the difference until 50" and higher displays became affordable but when you drive a BMW it's very hard to be happy with a Corolla.


This holiday season, sells of tvs larger than 40 inches are going down. I never said there isn't a market for high quality HD. But I don't think the mass market is even close to being ready for Blu-ray at this point.


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

slimoli said:


> That's not true at all. Many people were not able to realize the difference until 50" and higher displays became affordable but when you drive a BMW it's very hard to be happy with a Corolla. Netflix will be a great addition because you can select thousands of titles and even hard to find movies but will take few years before it can match Bluray quality. I want Netflix and I want to keep renting BD.


Here here!

Think about this too... There MUST be a reason why Netflix Streaming is ALSO a feature on SOME blu-ray players!

My Samsung BD-P2550 plays blu-ray AND does Netflix too! Someone realized that Even those of us who want Blu-ray will STILL want to Stream as well. 

TGC


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## PAP (Oct 6, 1999)

Absolutely. Kids have friends over unexpectedly, no movie they want to watch. Or same for adults - tivo streaming of netflix content is probably the most exciting thing I've seen or anticipated seeing since i got my first tivo 6 years ago.


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## westside_guy (Mar 13, 2005)

I think some of you are missing the point - and I think it underscores what others have said about this forum's users not being representative of the population at large. It's not just a matter of whether or not you can "see the difference". There are a lot of people who can see the difference between HD and non-HD, but it just doesn't matter to them very much.

Frankly, for a lot of stuff I'm in that camp myself. I don't really care if I can see the news anchor's nose hair.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

westside_guy said:


> I think some of you are missing the point - and I think it underscores what others have said about this forum's users not being representative of the population at large. It's not just a matter of whether or not you can "see the difference". There are a lot of people who can see the difference between HD and non-HD, but it just doesn't matter to them very much.
> 
> Frankly, for a lot of stuff I'm in that camp myself. I don't really care if I can see the news anchor's nose hair.


yah, only something as visual as Lord of the Rings or the like would wnat me to get real HD like a Blu-ray disc.
I recorded American Idol in Hd off OTA and all we did was make fum of Ryan Seacrest suit and how Simon Cowell looked eerily the same as SD. 

Now I do want better than analog cable/VHS but I am still not hooking up cable cards for each TV just to do that even.

For such as me, decent streaming quality with its compression will be fine and the few things I care about will just have to wait as I am not spending $1000 for the TV either. I do have a couple of 19" LCDs one for bedroom and one for home office that are great - I definitely like the LCD technology but I can also wait for that tru2way TV.

So pretty much yah - I watch mainly on a 32" SD type TV and I am sure that is better than watching SD or streaming on a 60" LCD


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

I've been pretty pleased with the PQ of the highest quality Netflix streaming on my Xbox (supposedly 2.2 Mbps with a possible 3.4 Mbps encoding available if the source quality warrants). The "3 Bar", 1.6 Mbps encodings are okay, but the 2 and 1 bar encodings are somewhere in the YouTube PQ range. (When the service first came online I was stuck with a tenuous wireless connection which hovered around 3.5 Mbps, so I got a look at the lower rate encodings. Since then, we ran a Cat6 cable to the router for a 15-22 Mbps link, so I always get the best quality encodings now). I viewed those lower quality encodings on my 46" 1080p panel--they might look better on some other displays, but I doubt it.

Before it starts streaming, the Netflix server tests the speed of its connection to your client--it selects the highest quality encoding that's no higher than 60% of the connection speed (it needs 40% headroom to avoid buffering delays). So, to get that 3.4 Mbps encoding, the server has to see at least a 4.76 Mbps connection; to get 2.2 Mbps encodings, you need a 3.08 Mbps connection or better. (I made a table of what speed it has to see on your connection to get each quality of encoding and posted it here on AVS Forums).

I've seen some of the HD encodings as well. Whereas they're probably better than upconverted DVDs, they don't come close to Blu-ray. Who cares? If they had surround sound, they'd be more than adequate for 90% of my film watching.

I really hope the TiVo viewer for Netflix streaming video works well and is reasonably convenient to use (the Xbox interface is fairly slick). My 360 is annoyingly loud in operation  and I'd love to have an alternative.


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

mikeyts said:


> I really hope the TiVo viewer for Netflix streaming video works well and is reasonably convenient to use (the Xbox interface is fairly slick). My 360 is annoyingly loud in operation  and I'd love to have an alternative.


From what I can tell. Since I too have the Xbox netflix AND I have Netflix streaming through my Blu-ray player as well. (I don't have a Roku Box). They both test the network connection to determine the best speed/quality combination.

The Netflix interface is suprisingly VERY similar to the Xbox 360. There ARE some differences. You don't get that snazy Xbox type interface flow of your Netflix Que on the Blu-ray player that you get on the Xbox. But still easy to use.

I am going to "Assume" that the interface of the TiVo and Blu-ray will be more similar to each other.

Picture quality of the Blu-ray and Xbox are as far as I can tell, even on my 65" Plasma Identical. HD or SD.

TGC


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## ldconfig (Sep 7, 2004)

Dear Santa all i want for the holidays is Netflix on my Tivo.


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## djwilso (Dec 23, 2006)

ldconfig said:


> Dear Santa all i want for the holidays is Netflix on my Tivo.


Me too. It was in my letter that I sent to Santa. 

So now all the TiVo Elves have to do is deliver the software on Christmas morning. That would be sweeeeeeeeeeet.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

1 word for folks that think better quality is all that matters

Betamax

actually there's probably several words

LaserDiscs

Digital Audio tape

I'm sure there are more

Content availibility, convenience, price/value are all others words that effect the equation.

While I personally think blueray will be just fine I dont think it's just becasue the quality is so much better currently.


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## murrays (Oct 19, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> 1 word for folks that think better quality is all that matters
> 
> Betamax
> 
> ...


...

TiVo

Apple

-murray


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## wkearney99 (Dec 5, 2003)

Netflix has the benefit of already charging you for services. Their streaming is "free". Other services like Unbox charge you per selection. Unbox has the advantage of NOT BEING STREAMED. If you're on a slow or congested internet connection you will not like a streamed source. Certainly not one that can't buffer to the local hard drive. 

You can test your netflix quality now using your computer. View a movie on the PC and see what quality level your connection speed supports. A lower quality picture might look OK on your PC screen but it may look unacceptably grainy on your larger TV. YMMV, of course. 

At present there's room for all choices. For movie watching I prefer the higher quality you currently only get from discs or Unbox downloads. Streaming just doesn't cut it for me, and i'm on a 20/5 FIOS link.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

wkearney99 said:


> At present there's room for all choices. For movie watching I prefer the higher quality you currently only get from discs or Unbox downloads. Streaming just doesn't cut it for me, and i'm on a 20/5 FIOS link.


Note Netflix does offer 720p HD content, which -- as viewed on an Xbox360 -- is of significantly higher quality than anything you get today on Amazon Unbox.

Now, the selection of HD titles on Netflix is currently rather limited, but it should grow with every passing month.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

bkdtv said:


> Note Netflix does offer 720p HD content, which -- as viewed on an Xbox360 -- is of significantly higher quality than anything you get today on Amazon Unbox.
> 
> Now, the selection of HD titles on Netflix is currently rather limited, but it should grow with every passing month.


 Also the SD material from Netflix is 480p and a lot of titles are anamorphic widescreen which makes the SD material better than most Unbox downloads. From what I've seen so far most of the Netflix 1500 Kbps SD selections other than the Starz ones are close to DVD quality for video (for audio Netflix is 2 channel only).


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## coolpepper43 (Mar 2, 2007)

When I tested my connection on Netflixs website for watch instantly I had 3 bars and it says my connection is High. Is that the best connection? Can you get more than 3 bars? How can I check that I am getting the full 3.4Mb connection?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

coolpepper43 said:


> When I tested my connection on Netflixs website for watch instantly I had 3 bars and it says my connection is High. Is that the best connection? Can you get more than 3 bars? How can I check that I am getting the full 3.4Mb connection?


I don't even see bars when using the web site.

You cannot yet get HD through the web site, and only a minority of SD titles are available in 3.4 Mbps versions. Most SD titles are available in 1.6Mbps and 2.2Mbps versions. You might try an episode of Heroes: Season 3.


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## coolpepper43 (Mar 2, 2007)

So are 3 bars the highest it goes? I should be getting the highest, I have a 15Mb rated bandwidth connection and I tested it at speedtest.net and was getting 17,000Kb down.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

coolpepper43 said:


> So are 3 bars the highest it goes? I should be getting the highest, I have a 15Mb rated bandwidth connection and I tested it at speedtest.net and was getting 17,000Kb down.


Four bars is the maximum.

The number of bars will vary from program to program. Some programs are only available with a maximum of 2 bars, whereas others are available with 3 bars. Still other programs are available with 4 bars.

The Netflix blog implies the following:

1 bar = 500 Kbps
2 bars = 1000 Kbps
3 bars = 1600 Kbps
4 bars = 2200 Kbps or 3400 Kbps

The blog says TiVo uses 10 bars, with all 10 presumably being for HD.


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## Playloud (Jan 6, 2008)

I can't wait for Tivo w/ Netflix. Very easy to watch movies. However, for movies that I really like, I will buy them on Blu-Ray. Quality is important for my favorites. Downloading is good for checking out a movie. But for the best movies, I want all the extras and the best quality possible.

Somebody said it earlier in the thread. There is going to be a problem with ISPs that are capping Internet use. Some ISPs have a 40GB cap. How many HD movies do you think you could download before breaking that cap? Fortunately, I currently have Verizon FIOS, which has no cap that I am aware of. Netflix/Tivo will be a nice easy way for me to check out movies on a whim.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

I think that he was talking about the "Your video quality is..." indicator on the Netflix site's Watch Instantly tab, where I've only ever seen 3 bars with my nominally 15 Mbps connection (TWC San Diego "Turbo" cable modem service, with a potential boost to 22 Mbps when bandwidth demand is low). Of course, we have no idea where their servers are and the nearest could be far away from me--Netflix itself is headquartered up in Santa Clara County (as is TiVo, Inc), about 460 miles from me here in San Diego. When I run those online connection speed tests I get a somewhat lower speed to San Francisco than to LA, 100 miles away (though there could be any number of factors responsible for that)--if the closest Watch Instantly server to me is up there, that might explain it.


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## coolpepper43 (Mar 2, 2007)

What kind of connection do I need to get the 4 bars on netflixs website? I have a speed that is 5 times more than 3400 Kbps. I have the fastest connection Time Warner offers. Can anyone here get anything higher then 3 bars on watch instantly home page? If so, how much bandwidth do you have? Or is 3 bars the highest? Where can you look to indicate the bit rate that is streaming through netflixs website?


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

Playloud said:


> There is going to be a problem with ISPs that are capping Internet use. Some ISPs have a 40GB cap. How many HD movies do you think you could download before breaking that cap?


Their maximum HD streaming rate is supposedly 3.8 Mbps, which works out to 1.71 GB/hour, so you'd get a little over 23 hours worth of viewing. That's if you got their maximum bit rate encoding all the time, which would require at least a 5.32 Mbps connection to their server (not the nominal speed of your service, but actual connection speed when you start the movie, which will vary depending upon the route from your home to their server and network congestion). Their second tier HD encodings are 2.6 Mbps, needing at least a 3.64 Mbps connection--anything less and you'll get an SD encoding. The second tier HD encoding works out to 1.17 GB/hour, so you'd get a bit more than 34 hours of that before breaking the 40 GB cap. (These estimates, of course, presume that you do nothing else with your connection ).

Is this a problem? That would depend on your appetite for streaming movies, your budget and what your provider charges for downloading in excess of the cap . I've also read that some providers don't charge extra once you exceed the download quota, but throttle your rate until the end of the month, which would probably put an end to your streaming.


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## Brainiac 5 (Aug 25, 2003)

mikeyts said:


> I've also read that some providers don't charge extra once you exceed the download quota, but throttle your rate until the end of the month, which would probably put an end to your streaming.


With Comcast (which has an admittedly generous 250GB cap), if you exceed the cap twice you're banned from their internet service for a year.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Cox HSI Preferred tier here has a lousy 40GB/month download limit spelled out in T&C, however from discussions in local AVS forum there are many of us blowing way past that so far without any consequences so I guess it's not really enforced here or many other places either.
Of course if this Netflix streaming becomes really popular and eats into their VOD revenues I wouldn't be surprised if enforcement conveniently kicks in all of a sudden...


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

Brainiac 5 said:


> With Comcast (which has an admittedly generous 250GB cap), if you exceed the cap twice you're banned from their internet service for a year.


That 250GB cap shouldn't be a problem for any residential user. If you're downloading more than that, you should buy business service, or at least install a second modem and router (for which TWC'd give you another $50/month charge) .


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

Netflix on Tivo will be the biggest advancement for both. Now if they only had all movies on the watch instantly service.


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## wkearney99 (Dec 5, 2003)

bkdtv said:


> Note Netflix does offer 720p HD content, which -- as viewed on an Xbox360 -- is of significantly higher quality than anything you get today on Amazon Unbox.


You miss my point about streamed vs downloads. Purely streamed is a problem because it's entirely dependent on the current active amount of available throughput. Download, store and view helps alleviate that problem. Even streaming with active buffering to local disc would help, but netflix does not do that. That and if you want to rewatch the program, even to rewind, you consume more bandwidth, again, for the same content.

There are lots of geeks out there that fantasize about unlimited, constant and low-latency connections. Truth is that just does not exist and, frankly, isn't going to exist any time soon. At least not in markets likely to be actual paying customers for the content providers.


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## Scyber (Apr 25, 2002)

coolpepper43 said:


> What kind of connection do I need to get the 4 bars on netflixs website? I have a speed that is 5 times more than 3400 Kbps. I have the fastest connection Time Warner offers. Can anyone here get anything higher then 3 bars on watch instantly home page? If so, how much bandwidth do you have? Or is 3 bars the highest? Where can you look to indicate the bit rate that is streaming through netflixs website?


I don't think there are 4 bars on that website widget. It looks like it only goes to 3 bars.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

Scyber said:


> I don't think there are 4 bars on that website widget. It looks like it only goes to 3 bars.


I didn't think so either, but that Netflix blog article says (under the heading "Delivered Quality"):


> Our first-gen *PC streaming player uses 1-4 bars* to represent the delivered quality, representing 500, 1000, 1600, and 2200 kbps. The 3400kbps encodes are represented as 4 bars. The player measures bandwidth once at the start of the title, and chooses a bitrate for delivery that has at least 40% headroom from the measured speed.
> 
> The Roku, LG, and Samsung, players use four dots during buffering in the same way, and Xbox has *4 bars just like the PC player*. The TiVo player has a similar display, but with 10 thin bars.


If it can display four bars, it must use a different graphic to do it--the three bar display looks full, and the third bar reaches the top of the box (unlike 3 bars in the Xbox player, in which you can see a faint, greyed out fourth bar, higher than the third).

Maybe it's the web player itself which shows four bars when it starts up? I can't check anymore since I opted in to the Silverlight player beta which, though it says "determining your video quality", doesn't show any connection speed indicator. (BTW, the Silverlight player starts up lightning fast with no stupid "Should I acquire the license?" or "Press Play" prompts). Given the Xbox player, I don't watch on the PC anymore.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

Looks like I got the new service update (the official one, not the beta), which mostly seems to reorganize TiVo Central, adding a "Video On Demand" item to the top menu (bundling Showcases with Music & Photos and HME apps). Video On Demand has only Amazon, Disney, Jaman, YouTube, Music Videos from Music Choice, Free Videos (aka TiVoCast) and Home Movies by One True Media--no Netflix yet, though I assume that that's where it'll appear when it shows up.

If there are any other changes, I haven't noticed them.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

mikeyts said:


> Looks like I got the new service update (the official one, not the beta), which mostly seems to reorganize TiVo Central, adding a "Video On Demand" item to the top menu (bundling Showcases with Music & Photos and HME apps). Video On Demand has only Amazon, Disney, Jaman, YouTube, Music Videos from Music Choice, Free Videos (aka TiVoCast) and Home Movies by One True Media--no Netflix yet, though I assume that that's where it'll appear when it shows up.
> 
> If there are any other changes, I haven't noticed them.


 HME streaming now accepts a *very restrictive* set of .wmv videos (only encodings with VC-1 AP video + 2-channel Constant Bit Rate WMA2 audio) which it didn't with 9.4 software, obviously to work with the impending Netflix HME app.

Plus obviously it has the important scheduling bug fix that some people were suffering from in 9.4.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

mikeyts said:


> I didn't think so either, but that Netflix blog article says (under the heading "Delivered Quality"):
> If it can display four bars, it must use a different graphic to do it--the three bar display looks full, and the third bar reaches the top of the box (unlike 3 bars in the Xbox player, in which you can see a faint, greyed out fourth bar, higher than the third).
> 
> Maybe it's the web player itself which shows four bars when it starts up? I can't check anymore since I opted in to the Silverlight player beta which, though it says "determining your video quality", doesn't show any connection speed indicator. (BTW, the Silverlight player starts up lightning fast with no stupid "Should I acquire the license?" or "Press Play" prompts). Given the Xbox player, I don't watch on the PC anymore.


My impression, which could be wrong...

Certain programs, like Heroes S3, show three bars, and then refresh again showing a display with one bar. I think that may be how they indicate four bars. Their screen only fits three bars, so they display the same screen again with the fourth bar. I've noticed that a number of the Netflix HD programs show up in SD in this manner. Quality is very good.

Sometimes the bars show and then hide so fast on my screen (maybe cause of 20Mbps connection?) that I barely see them. The bars are on my screen for only an instant.


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## SirDucky (Nov 18, 2007)

"Video On Demand and Netflix: In talking with Tivo Tech support this morning (slowness issues since update)... The rep said Netflix was to be included in this update and will appear in the "Video On Demand" section. I told the rep Netflix is not listed and her response was it will be available soon. There was no ETA provided.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

mikeyts said:


> Their maximum HD streaming rate is supposedly 3.8 Mbps, which works out to 1.71 GB/hour...Their second tier HD encodings are 2.6 Mbps, needing at least a 3.64 Mbps connection--anything less and you'll get an SD encoding. The second tier HD encoding works out to 1.17 GB/hour,
> 
> Is this a problem?


Only if you care about the quality of what you are seeing.

For sake of comparison, OTA HD is right around 19 Mbps, and even Time Warner's highly stepped on Los Angeles feed is around 12-13 Mbps. An hour of ER before they started stepping on it was 6.9-7.2 Gig of S3 space; now, it's around 4.9-5.1 gigs and looks like crap (breaks up with large pixelation) much of the time if there's any rapid motion or big light changes, or dissolves, or, you know, anything but static talking heads.

So based on disk usage and the OP's numbers, the "top tier" is compressed THREE TIMES AS HARD as the already crappy TW signal.

No thank you.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

dougdingle said:


> Only if you care about the quality of what you are seeing.
> 
> For sake of comparison, OTA HD is right around 19 Mbps, and even Time Warner's highly stepped on Los Angeles feed is around 12-13 Mbps. An hour of ER before they started stepping on it was 6.9-7.2 Gig of S3 space; now, it's around 4.9-5.1 gigs and looks like crap (breaks up with large pixelation) much of the time if there's any rapid motion or big light changes, or dissolves, or, you know, anything but static talking heads.
> 
> ...


 Those numbers are for mpeg2 encoding. Netflix is using VC-1 AP which is much more efficient, so right there you can cut the size by 1/3 and still not notice a quality drop.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

dougdingle said:


> So based on disk usage and the OP's numbers, the "top tier" is compressed THREE TIMES AS HARD as the already crappy TW signal.
> 
> No thank you.


Be aware that:


 Netflix HD uses 720p24, which takes less bandwidth than 1080i and 720p60 broadcasts.

 Netflix is using VC-1, which delivers a comparable picture in 30-40% less bandwidth than MPEG-2.

 Netflix creates its library of 720p24 encodes from high quality copies. They aren't recompressing an already highly compressed copy _on the fly_ like TWC. The higher the quality of the source, and the more time spend on the encoding, the better the final result will look.
The result is a HD copy that probably doesn't look as good as what you get with your cable or satellite, but it's still far better than SD. You shouldn't see much blocking because other techniques are used to limit bandwidth requirements (i.e. reduction of detail during complex scenes).

Did I mention that all Netflix HD content was commercial free?


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

dougdingle said:


> For sake of comparison, OTA HD is right around 19 Mbps, and even Time Warner's highly stepped on Los Angeles feed is around 12-13 Mbps. An hour of ER before they started stepping on it was 6.9-7.2 Gig of S3 space; now, it's around 4.9-5.1 gigs and looks like crap (breaks up with large pixelation) much of the time if there's any rapid motion or big light changes, or dissolves, or, you know, anything but static talking heads.
> 
> So based on disk usage and the OP's numbers, the "top tier" is compressed THREE TIMES AS HARD as the already crappy TW signal.
> 
> No thank you.


Are you certain that it's TWC's fault? Have you compared the size of recordings of an OTA broadcast to a recording of the same program from the cable rebroadcast? Locally I briefly suspected TWC of messing with the bit rate of NBC, which is now hovering around 12.5 Mbps when it had previously run more like 15-17 Mbps. As it turns out, that bit rate is coming from the broadcaster, who's currently running two SD subchannels in their stream (Universal Sports and Weather Plus, I think) along with the main channel, reducing the potential bit rate of the main channel. It sometimes causes encoding problems in programs with lots of fast motion scenes, but it's not always a problem. Wednesday's episode of _Life_ was crisp and flawless, as was _ER_ on Thursday. Sucks for sports, though.

In any case, that has nothing to do with Netflix streaming video: your local broadcast channels are encoded in MPEG-2, whereas Netflix streaming video is encoded in VC-1 (a encoding promoted and principly created by Microsoft, now an open SMPTE standard which is part of the Blu-ray spec--see this). VC-1 Advanced Profile is a much more efficient encoding than MPEG-2, needing as little as one third the bandwidth to produce equivalent picture quality. Also, NBC is encoded 1080x1920 at 60 fields/sec (30 frames), whereas Netflix encodings are 720x1280 at 24 frames/sec (less than half the pixels/sec; 24 fps is the standard framerate of film).

I've watched several hours of it at this point and can tell you that it's quite decent PQ, with no break-ups that I've seen. Certainly it compares favorably with broadcast HDTV, though not with good Blu-ray encodings. As I stated before, once it has surround sound, it'll be good enough for about 90% of what I watch--I'll rent Blu-ray for the rest. But don't let me sell you on it--if you subscribe to an unlimited Netflix disc rental plan and own a TiVo S3, HD or HD XL you will soon be able to try it for yourself (or you can try it now if you own an Xbox).


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## Playloud (Jan 6, 2008)

I went from TWC in Redondo Beach, CA, to FIOS. I noticed the SD feeds of T:SCC looked noticeably better on FIOS. I transferred the show to my Laptop, and the file size was indeed bigger. I only recently got an HDTV, so I don't know how their HD file sizes compare. However, I can say for sure that TWC's SD feed is heavily compressed.

That's a shame that they are offering "streaming" vs "downloads". Downloads are much better, and with all the copy protection they have, I don't see the need for streaming.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Playloud said:


> I went from TWC in Redondo Beach, CA, to FIOS. I noticed the SD feeds of T:SCC looked noticeably better on FIOS. I transferred the show to my Laptop, and the file size was indeed bigger. I only recently got an HDTV, so I don't know how their HD file sizes compare. However, I can say for sure that TWC's SD feed is heavily compressed.


Are you sure TWC wasn't broadcasting the SD channels in analog? The SD channels on FIOS are digital so you would certainly see a difference in quality and in size.


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## Playloud (Jan 6, 2008)

rainwater said:


> Are you sure TWC wasn't broadcasting the SD channels in analog? The SD channels on FIOS are digital so you would certainly see a difference in quality and in size.


When I got my cable card from TWC, the Tivo quit displaying what quality I was recording at. I think that means it had to be digital, otherwise it would still say "best". I know TWC had all channels in digital in my area, so I am certain I was watching in digital once I got the cable card in.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

mikeyts said:


> Are you certain that it's TWC's fault? Have you compared the size of recordings of an OTA broadcast to a recording of the same program from the cable rebroadcast?


I can't. I am in a complete and total RF hole. I have no OTA whatsoever. The PQ has dropped on TW coincident with the introduction of the initial dozen or so new HD channels a few months ago, and its overcompressed on all the HD channels on two S3's, so I really suspect TW.



> In any case, that has nothing to do with Netflix streaming video: your local broadcast channels are encoded in MPEG-2, whereas Netflix streaming video is encoded in VC-1


Thanks. I'll do a little research. I just noticed that one of my boxes has the version 11 service update which supposedly adds Netflix capability, but it's not showing up in the menus yet.



> I've watched several hours of it at this point and can tell you that it's quite decent PQ, with no break-ups that I've seen.


Since you've already experienced it, what speed connection do you think is required for stutter-free viewing of the streaming data? Does the TiVo buffer some of it, or does it keep just ahead of real time viewing? Can you rewind through the entire movie, or just 30 minutes, or?

Thanks.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

dougdingle said:


> Since you've already experienced it, what speed connection do you think is required for stutter-free viewing of the streaming data? Does the TiVo buffer some of it, or does it keep just ahead of real time viewing? Can you rewind through the entire movie, or just 30 minutes, or?


I can't say I've seen Neflix on TiVo, but I have seen it on a few other devices. You can fast forward and rewind through an entire movie, but the FF and REW isn't smooth; you only see a small fraction of the frames. That's not as nice as DVD, but works well enough to let you find a scene.

Stutter is really not an issue with Netflix, because if your connection can't sustain a certain quality level, they simply drop you down to a lower quality level.

Most of Netflix's content is available in SD @ 1.6Mbps and 2.2Mbps. It's not great, but I think most would agree that quality easily surpasses Amazon Unbox. Most cable users should be able to sustain that level of throughput.

Netflix's HD is currently limited to around 300 titles and is encoded at 3.8Mbps, as mentioned in earlier posts. If you have a reliable 5Mbps or 6Mbps cable connection, you should be fine. If not, Netflix will drop you down to the 2.6Mbps HD version, and if you can't sustain that, they'll stick you with the 1.6Mbps or 2.2Mbps SD version. If you still can't sustain that, you'll get the 1.0Mbps version, or worse yet, the 500Kbps version.

The Netflix $8.99/mo subscription gets you unlimited streaming on one TiVo.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

dougdingle said:


> I just noticed that one of my boxes has the version 11 service update which supposedly adds Netflix capability, but it's not showing up in the menus yet.


Lots of us got that update last night--undoubtably it added some new capabilities necessary for Netflix WI. A week or two ago, they added menus for Jaman and Disney without changing the firmware version; I suspect that the Netflix WI player will be added in the same fashion.


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## weldon (Jun 17, 2001)

Apparently some people already have Netflix running. I just got the update yesterday and I'm chomping at the bit to try Netflix on my TiVo.

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-12/netflix-arrives-on-tivo-today/


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## ilh (Dec 21, 2007)

I got the TiVo update last week, and only just this morning Netflix showed up on the Video on Demand screen. Initial look at an HD source (The Office Season 2) and it looked pretty good.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

I followed weldon's link to the post in Zatz' blog and was about to post it to the AVS Forum TiVo Series3 thread and saw that a couple of people there were saying that it was working--this was at about quarter of midnight, here on the west coast. I checked my TiVo and it was there as well .

I watched an episode of _CSI: Miami_ in "HD" (this particular episode's encoding wasn't very good, with lots of visible artifacts, when I'd seen quite decent ones using the Xbox). Then I watched an episode from _Star Trek: Season One_ (recently an 4:3 HD version was released on disc, transferred from a cleaned up film source with some improved special effects). I got too sleepy to finish it (by that point it was nearly 2 AM), but it looked pretty smooth. There was a glitch in playback--it just suddenly stopped playing and went back to live TV and when I hit the back arrow I was on the "Netflix Account Information" dialog. When I went back and selected the episode again, it smoothly resumed playback from where I left off. Few things are perfect at launch .

The UI wasn't as slick as the Xbox's "3D" string of cover art, but then TiVo has a tiny fraction of the 360's computational and graphics capabilities. The connection speed indicator is different, as is the way it handles FF and REW--I like TiVo's version of the latter better. But it works, it displays HD streams and no Xbox noise in the background. So far, I'm happy with it .


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## weldon (Jun 17, 2001)

Netflix shows up in my menu this morning. Maybe I had to wait until midnight Mountain time for it to show up?

My TiVo is activated, and now I'm playing Heroes Season 3 - Episode 1. Gotta catch up!


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