# V69 error  Media Bridge?



## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

I have 2 Tivo Roamio Basics. One in the family room is wired to my router, the second in the bedroom is connected wirelessly. I would like to be able to stream recorded shows from the family room Tivo to my bedroom Tivo. However, I get the V69 error (Network too slow) after a few minutes while trying to stream/watch.

I have read many threads here (as well as Tivos website) that say that streaming in this manner will not work (wired to wireless). I also understand that connecting by MOCA or wired ethernet would solve this problem, but neither of these options are going to work for me.

If I put a Media Bridge in the bedroom that would connect to my router wirelessly and allow my bedroom Tivo to connect to the Bridge by wired ethernet, would this trick the Tivo and allow the streaming to work? 

Has anyone tried this with success or not (my guess is that it will not work, but I thought Id ask)?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

kazak99 said:


> I have 2 Tivo Roamio Basics. One in the family room is wired to my router, the second in the bedroom is connected wirelessly. I would like to be able to stream recorded shows from the family room Tivo to my bedroom Tivo. However, I get the V69 error (Network too slow) after a few minutes while trying to stream/watch.
> 
> I have read many threads here (as well as Tivos website) that say that streaming in this manner will not work (wired to wireless). I also understand that connecting by MOCA or wired ethernet would solve this problem, but neither of these options are going to work for me.
> 
> ...


The internal wireless of a basic Roamio is not so good. Like you, I have a wired box next to my router, and another on a different floor. I use a wired to wireless adapter. Right now I'm using an ASUS EA-N66R. That has only one port. I have two Mini boxes using Linksys WUMC710. I have one Mini box next door using a TiVo wireless N adapter. It's only 20 feet from the router, but there is a wall in between also.

The power and speed of the router is very important. I have a Netgear R8000. Ugly but solid.

Sorry, but this configuration is not supported. Use Ethernet or MoCA. Plenty of help in that configuration.


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

JoeKustra said:


> The internal wireless of a basic Roamio is not so good. Like you, I have a wired box next to my router, and another on a different floor. I use a wired to wireless adapter. Right now I'm using an ASUS EA-N66R. That has only one port. I have two Mini boxes using Linksys WUMC710. I have one Mini box next door using a TiVo wireless N adapter. It's only 20 feet from the router, but there is a wall in between also.
> 
> The power and speed of the router is very important. I have a Netgear R8000. Ugly but solid.
> 
> Sorry, but this configuration is not supported. Use Ethernet or MoCA. Plenty of help in that configuration.


Hi Joe, thanks for your reply. Are you using the ASUS EA-N66R in AP or bridge mode?

Looking at the speed of transfers in my current configuration the wireless Tivo shows my throughput at 24Mb/s (Settings> Network> View Network Diagnostics> View Transfer History> 3.Incoming...).

Any idea what your transfer throughput is?

Thanks


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

kazak99 said:


> Hi Joe, thanks for your reply. Are you using the ASUS EA-N66R in AP or bridge mode?
> 
> Looking at the speed of transfers in my current configuration the wireless Tivo shows my throughput at 24Mb/s (Settings> Network> View Network Diagnostics> View Transfer History> 3.Incoming...).
> 
> ...


I have no idea what mode the ASUS is using. I do know that a transfer from my PC to the basic Roamio is almost 100Mbps with Desktop and to the other Roamio is about 95Mbps. Your point is well taken though. HD viewing should work fine at 24Mbps. My cable channels never go past 18Mbps. Perhaps there is an issue with your router? Everything I use, except my printer, is 802.11ac unless I turn on the TiVo wireless N supplied Mini.

I find that the internal wireless of the Roamio is ok if used for guide updates but sometimes stutters if used with the Mini on the WUMC710. Even this computer is using a Netgear EX7000 adapter since I have no wires between rooms or floors. If I use internal Roamio wireless to the wired Roamio the speed drops to 60Mbps.

There are other choices for wired to wireless adapters or sometimes they are called range extenders. I don't suggest TP-Link. Maybe power line adapters would be better? Try turning off QoS on the router.


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

JoeKustra said:


> I have no idea what mode the ASUS is using. I do know that a transfer from my PC to the basic Roamio is almost 100Mbps with Desktop and to the other Roamio is about 95Mbps. Your point is well taken though. HD viewing should work fine at 24Mbps. My cable channels never go past 18Mbps. Perhaps there is an issue with your router? Everything I use, except my printer, is 802.11ac unless I turn on the TiVo wireless N supplied Mini.
> 
> I find that the internal wireless of the Roamio is ok if used for guide updates but sometimes stutters if used with the Mini on the WUMC710. Even this computer is using a Netgear EX7000 adapter since I have no wires between rooms or floors. If I use internal Roamio wireless to the wired Roamio the speed drops to 60Mbps.
> 
> There are other choices for wired to wireless adapters or sometimes they are called range extenders. I don't suggest TP-Link. Maybe power line adapters would be better? Try turning off QoS on the router.


Thanks again, Joe.

Here's an illustration of the 3 modes you can choose with your ASUS EA-N66R (just sub the RP-N12 with your EA-N66R). The solid connector lines are ethernet wires.








Just curious to know which method you use with your EA-N66R & second Tivo, in relation to me wanting to try my second Tivo with a wired Media Bridge to see what the speeds are like and to use the ethernet port instead of Tivo's internal wireless (even though this ultimately is a wireless based system).

Cheers


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Ok, that's not me. I have a short length of CAT5 from the Roamio to the EA-N66R. I configure it with my PC since it can't be configured remotely. The unit seems to be still supported since I found new firmware on the ASUS site. The Roamio thinks it's wired. The security is set by me before I connect it to my Roamio. Also, Newegg has it cheapest. It's only 802.11a but still 5GHz.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...agj1tt_8rOfBdKai9I0I8aAik08P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

The LED can be disabled. If you want to add more devices, I would go with the WUMC710 since it has more ports. Bottom line: I watch (frequently) programs on the wired Roamio from the "wireless" Roamio all the time. I have never had a stutter or any error. But remember, I'm using a tri-band dual core router. That helps.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Linksys-WUMC710-Wireless-AC-Universal-Media-Connector/22098038

I'm sure you can find other options.


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

I should mention that I use an Asus RT-N66U router as well as an Asus N300 RP-N12 Extender/Access Point in AP mode. Certainly not the fastest equipment anymore or AC capable, but solid nonetheless. All of my wiring is Cat 6a or 7 and all switches (TP Link and Asus) are gigi-bit.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

kazak99 said:


> I should mention that I use an Asus RT-N66U router as well as an Asus N300 RP-N12 Extender/Access Point in AP mode. Certainly not the fastest equipment anymore or AC capable, but solid nonetheless. All of my wiring is Cat 6a or 7 and all switches (TP Link and Asus) are gigi-bit.


Then I'm mystified why your transfer speed is so slow. If the router has options, I would see if they affect things. I know my older R7500 would kill speeds with QoS enabled. The R8000 is so much better.


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

It sounds like you are using the ASUS EA-N66R as a Media Bridge - good to know. Thank you for the sharing the information about your connection, equipment, and speeds.

I might have to try using an old router as an AP and then use my RP-N12 as a Bridge.


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

JoeKustra said:


> Then I'm mystified why your transfer speed is so slow. If the router has options, I would see if they affect things. I know my older R7500 would kill speeds with QoS enabled. The R8000 is so much better.


My second Tivo, in the upstairs bedroom, is connecting wirelessly to the Asus RP-N12 on the first floor - that is directly under this bedroom. I'll try tweaking the QOS settings to see if it ramps up the speed. Thanks.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

History: over three years or so ago I moved into this house as semi-permanent house sitter. It had basic/old cable. I needed internet and cable access on a second floor. At the time I had just bought my first TiVo since my cable was not encrypted and I had four Sony DHG units. A lot has happened, and being retired, I had a lot of time. I have gone through a lot of routers, access points, USB adapters, and bunch of stuff I forget. I finally found this solution. I also have two Premiere units that get little use. But I don't have much in the way of budgetary concerns and I've been into wireless since the 60's.

Every morning I go down to the kitchen, hit the TV power on, then Live TV on a Mini and watch TV for an hour or so. I still haven't found a 4k TV I like or I would buy it tomorrow. I don't see a Bolt in my future since, like my computer, any gain would not be cost effective. I'll wait for a while. I may have to move at anytime and all my stuff can go with me. I also use a UPS on everything. Nothing ever breaks, so I'm always looking for an excuse to buy something new.


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

JoeKustra said:


> Then I'm mystified why your transfer speed is so slow. If the router has options, I would see if they affect things. I know my older R7500 would kill speeds with QoS enabled. The R8000 is so much better.


Adjusting the QoS settings on my router has not led to any real improvements (without QoS: 24Mb/s and with QoS: 26Mb/s).


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

kazak99 said:


> Adjusting the QoS settings on my router has not led to any real improvements (without QoS: 24Mb/s and with QoS: 26Mb/s).


I should have asked before. On the wireless TiVo, what's the signal strength and are you using 5GHz or 2.4GHz?


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

JoeKustra said:


> I should have asked before. On the wireless TiVo, what's the signal strength and are you using 5GHz or 2.4GHz?


Signal strength on the wireless Tivo is 97-100% I am using the 2.4GHz band (the Asus AP is only 2.4 - not dual-band).


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

kazak99 said:


> Signal strength on the wireless Tivo is 97-100% I am using the 2.4GHz band (the Asus AP is only 2.4 - not dual-band).


Thanks. I don't what to say. It's your money. There's no way to find the bottleneck unless you want to get a copy of the old Desktop (non-Plus version) and see what speeds you get with your network. I find Windows 8 has a good Task Manager speed readout for the network connection. I don't have Win 10 and the Win 7 Task Manager is not as friendly. You might look around to see which power line adapters work best.

http://assets.tivo.com/assets/exe/tivotogo/TiVoDesktop2.8.3.exe

Update:
So I just tried streaming to my wireless Roamio from the wired Roamio. The program was The Late Show. With 2.4GHz I couldn't get 15 seconds without an error. With 5GHz it took about a minute.

However, I started to transfer the program, waited a minute, then started watching the partial transfer. No problems.

But this method won't work on copy protected programs and you lose SM if present.


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## PCurry57 (Feb 27, 2012)

kazak99 said:


> Thanks again, Joe.
> 
> Here's an illustration of the 3 modes you can choose with your ASUS EA-N66R (just sub the RP-N12 with your EA-N66R). The solid connector lines are ethernet wires.
> 
> ...


Repeater mode would only make it worse because that actually cuts bandwidth in half.

I have successfully used DLINK DAP-1522's 5Ghz N. At one point I had DirecTV HD DVR's and as a beta tester of their whole home I had one of these on both DVR's. When I dropped DirecTV for TiVo and TWC/OTA I continued to use these very successfully because of a lack of coax wiring to use MOCA in the bedroom (OTA only). There were rare but occasional connection drops restored quickly and easily enough.

The key is to ensure your using the 5Ghz band and not the 2.4Ghz band. N 2.4 just isn't going to be fast enough because of your neighbors overlap.

I've since upgraded from dual band N to AC and moved, connection drops decreased. Having cable coax in every room now I switched to MOCA and never lose the connection albeit MOCA is slower than AC or Gigabit wired.


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

JoeKustra said:


> Update:
> So I just tried streaming to my wireless Roamio from the wired Roamio. The program was The Late Show. With 2.4GHz I couldn't get 15 seconds without an error. With 5GHz it took about a minute.


Hi Joe, were you able to stream/watch (rather than transfer) using the 5GHz band?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

kazak99 said:


> Hi Joe, were you able to stream/watch (rather than transfer) using the 5GHz band?


Like I said, for about a minute. In other words: no. I'm back on the ASUS streaming the same program without any problems. The ASUS is right beside the Roamio, so it's not a geographic problem. My "center" is surrounded by many metal objects and there is no line of sight. The signal was 100% on 2.4GHZ and 85% on 5GHz. I live in a semi-rural area, so interference is not an issue.


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

I checked my speeds on my computer (Win 10) using old Tivo Desktop and Task Manager Network Connections and the throughput speeds look identical to what the Tivo is reporting (~24Mb/s).

It would seem there is no solution without going to a wired ethernet or MOCA. 

Thanks for all you input, Joe.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

kazak99 said:


> I checked my speeds on my computer (Win 10) using old Tivo Desktop and Task Manager Network Connections and the throughput speeds look identical to what the Tivo is reporting (~24Mb/s).
> 
> It would seem there is no solution without going to a wired ethernet or MOCA.
> 
> Thanks for all you input, Joe.


You can get 100' of CAT5 from Monoprice pretty cheap. I've done that. I also have 100' of RG-6 for testing.

You might start a thread in the Coffee House forum and ask about power line adapters.

Wait for BF and get a better router. Good luck.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

> Are you using the ASUS EA-N66R in AP or bridge mode?





> Here's an illustration of the 3 modes you can choose with your ASUS EA-N66R (just sub the RP-N12 with your EA-N66R). The solid connector lines are ethernet wires.
> (image)​Just curious to know which method you use with your EA-N66R & second Tivo, in relation to me wanting to try my second Tivo with a wired Media Bridge to see what the speeds are like and to use the ethernet port instead of Tivo's internal wireless (even though this ultimately is a wireless based system).


To trick the Roamio into thinking it has a fully-wired connection, you would need to configure the wireless device in "media bridge mode," having the wireless device act as a wireless client for any devices connected to its Ethernet port(s), such as the TiVo. The Roamio needn't be any the wiser, provided the wireless connection is sufficient to support HD-quality Multi-Room Streaming (MRS) between TiVos.

I'm using an ASUS-EA-N66R in this way, but with its Ethernet port connected to a network switch, so multiple devices can benefit from the link -- though typically never at the same time.



> HD viewing should work fine at 24Mbps.


Though an average transfer rate of 24 Mbps does not mean that the connection is sustaining 24 Mbps, consistently, which can be problematic given that HD content can run as high as 18+ Mbps. Any lags from wireless interference could cause a sufficient delay to trigger buffering or "speed too low" errors.



kazak99 said:


> I should mention that I use an Asus RT-N66U router as well as an Asus N300 RP-N12 Extender/Access Point in AP mode.


If the RP-N12 is in AP mode, then your Roamio is still using its built-in wireless. The RP-N12 needs to be in "bridge mode," so that it is effectively acting as a wireless adapter for the Roamio, to which the RP-N12 would be wired via Ethernet (either directly or via a network switch).



> I might have to try using an old router as an AP and then use my RP-N12 as a Bridge.


Sounds like this would be the right direction, but may be hindered by the "old" in old router. Success will be dependent on the effective throughput and latency (hiccups) in the wireless connection b/w the RP-N12 and the old router.

Does your main router not have the power/coverage to reach the RP-N12 when placed in the upstairs bedroom?



> It would seem there is no solution without going to a wired ethernet or MOCA.


I think Joe's made it clear that a wireless connection for TiVo MRS is doable, but you'd just need to have a sufficiently-powered wireless access point or router as your base station, and a wireless media bridge hard-wired to your TiVo. (And it will be helpful that one of the TiVos involved in the MRS session will be truly hard-wired to the LAN.)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

p.s. You haven't really given us a full layout of your home (rooms, device locations, coax runs and outlets, signal entry points, etc), so I'll have to take your word on a wired (Ethernet or MoCA) solution not being possible. Note, however, that a partial Ethernet or MoCA solution may allow you to position one or more wireless APs more advantageously, to improve your wireless signal coverage.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

This is a good price. https://www.neweggbusiness.com/product/product.aspx?item=9b-33-320-249


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

Hi KrKauf, thanks for your response.

I did setup my old router as the AP and the Asus RP-N12 as the Media Bridge. Unfortunately the old router is a big hindrance. My throughput speeds went back down to 13Mb/s (which was the speed I was getting when using only the old router to the wireless Tivo (without the ASUS RP-N12 AP).

There are walls and a masonry fireplace that divides the main part of the house from the family room (wired Tivo) and upstairs bedroom (wireless Tivo). My main router signal (Asus RT-N66U) reaches the family room and bedroom upstairs, but at extremely weak levels, pretty much unusable. 

I think what you said about "Any lags from wireless interference could cause a sufficient delay to trigger buffering or speed too low errors" is a great point and is probably a major part of the reason that I am not having success with the equipment I am using. I think that there is merit and a much larger chance of success by upgrading to faster equipment too.

Wired ethernet is feasible, but difficult. It is not work I want to do on my own or hire others to do at this point (running a line through walls to the attic and then running a line down from the attic through an exterior wall for the outlet).

Regarding MOCA, the cable supply line comes to an exterior box on the house. From that box the line splits to a cable that runs to the upstairs bedroom via the exterior of the house and a cable that runs to the basement and plugs into an amplifier/splitter. Everything on the bottom floors of the house (not the upstairs) receives its signal from the basement amp/splitter (internet and phone modems and TV cable runs). I don't know if MOCA would work with this configuration due to the initial split in the exterior box and the placement of adapters and POE.


@Joe: that is a good price - thanks!


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

kazak99 said:


> Regarding MOCA, the cable supply line comes to an exterior box on the house. From that box the line splits to a cable that runs to the upstairs bedroom via the exterior of the house and a cable that runs to the basement and plugs into an amplifier/splitter. Everything on the bottom floors of the house (not the upstairs) receives its signal from the basement amp/splitter (internet and phone modems and TV cable runs). I don't know if MOCA would work with this configuration due to the initial split in the exterior box and the placement of adapters and POE.


Hi,
Based on your description of your layout, there is no reason that MoCA would not work, except for the possibility of a non-MoCA friendly amp, and that could be replaced with one that is compatible with MoCA. If you want to get MoCA to that wireless Roamio, you would need 1 or possibly 2 MoCA filters, 2 MoCA adapters, and possibly one of these, WCB3000N adapters up in that bedroom if you want real good coverage up there. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Actiontec-M...639868?hash=item25bf9eb77c:g:EJkAAOSw2GlXJAfz
The WCB3000N is not strictly needed, just pointing out the nice thing about an active MoCA network is you can put this type of device anywhere you want better wireless and have coax.
If you post the make and manufacturer of that amp, I can tell you if it will work with MoCA.


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

fcfc2 said:


> Hi,
> Based on your description of your layout, there is no reason that MoCA would not work, except for the possibility of a non-MoCA friendly amp, and that could be replaced with one that is compatible with MoCA. If you want to get MoCA to that wireless Roamio, you would need 1 or possibly 2 MoCA filters, 2 MoCA adapters, and possibly one of these, WCB3000N adapters up in that bedroom if you want real good coverage up there. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Actiontec-M...639868?hash=item25bf9eb77c:g:EJkAAOSw2GlXJAfz
> The WCB3000N is not strictly needed, just pointing out the nice thing about an active MoCA network is you can put this type of device anywhere you want better wireless and have coax.
> If you post the make and manufacturer of that amp, I can tell you if it will work with MoCA.


The amp is an Extreme Broadband Engineering Infinity Premise Amplifier, Model IPA1008D-RSVF (supplied by the cable company, Charter).


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

kazak99 said:


> The amp is an Extreme Broadband Engineering Infinity Premise Amplifier, Model IPA1008D-RSVF (supplied by the cable company, Charter).


Hi, 
Sorry, I just spent about 20 minutes trying to find out if that unit is MoCA friendly....could find absolutely no definitive answer, but the absence of any mention of MoCA compatibility is not a good sign. If you want to try and get a direct answer, you might send an email to those folks....hopefully, they will be able to tell you for certain. http://www.extreme-broadband.com/support.html
In your situation if you need to find another MoCA friendly amp, consider one of these, http://www.ebay.com/itm/PPC-EVOLUTI...362300?hash=item25bfe6c67c:g:dLcAAOSwv0tU3zP~
I recommend the "blue" label only version as the older red label is not MoCA friendly and some other brands have builtin MoCA filters which will not work in your case. You would need a MoCA filter on the input of that first 2 way splitter, the amps with the builtin filter will block getting MoCA to the bedroom.
The reason you may need a 2nd filter is because some cable modems are not MoCA friendly, some are like the Arris/Motorola 6xxx series. I can tell you if you give the make and manufacturer.


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

fcfc2 said:


> Hi,
> Sorry, I just spent about 20 minutes trying to find out if that unit is MoCA friendly....could find absolutely no definitive answer, but the absence of any mention of MoCA compatibility is not a good sign. If you want to try and get a direct answer, you might send an email to those folks....hopefully, they will be able to tell you for certain. http://www.extreme-broadband.com/support.html
> In your situation if you need to find another MoCA friendly amp, consider one of these, http://www.ebay.com/itm/PPC-EVOLUTI...362300?hash=item25bfe6c67c:g:dLcAAOSwv0tU3zP~
> I recommend the "blue" label only version as the older red label is not MoCA friendly and some other brands have builtin MoCA filters which will not work in your case. You would need a MoCA filter on the input of that first 2 way splitter, the amps with the builtin filter will block getting MoCA to the bedroom.
> The reason you may need a 2nd filter is because some cable modems are not MoCA friendly, some are like the Arris/Motorola 6xxx series. I can tell you if you give the make and manufacturer.


Thanks for the advice and links, fcfc2.

The cable/internet modem is a Motorola Surfboard SB6121.
The phone modem is an Arris Touchstone TM602.

I don't think my current amp is MoCA friendly. I found these 2 MoCA amps also:

Extreme Broadband IPA2008DL2-RSVF
http://www.extreme-broadband.com/amplifiers.html

PCT PCT-VCF-18AUPIN
http://www.pctstore.com/RF_amplifier_9_port_amplifier_PCT_VCF_18A_p/pctvcf18aupin.htm


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

kazak99 said:


> Thanks for the advice and links, fcfc2.
> 
> The cable/internet modem is a Motorola Surfboard SB6121.
> The phone modem is an Arris Touchstone TM602.
> ...


The PCT brand has the builtin MoCA filter, will not work for you, most all of theirs has the same feature. The extreme broadband site give absolutely no specs on any amplifier regarding MoCA compatibility, they have a go nowhere link that says MoCA amplifiers, send them an email if you want but I wouldn't waste my time, I gave you the brand that will work in your situation. BTW if you use all of those ports fine, but if not pick up some 75 Ohm F-type terminators and put one on any open coax ports including unused wall outlets.
EDIT: You are likely to need one extra filter for the input to that Arris Touchstone TM602.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

kazak99 said:


> @Joe: that is a good price - thanks!


Simple, right? 

Sorry, I couldn't resist. I wish you the best.


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

Thanks again, fcfc2,

Do you have any recommendations for the MoCA adapters (third-party, or the Tivo ones)?

I understand that one of the filters would go at the phone modem input, one at the initial splitter input on the outside box, but I'm not sure where the third would go (cable modem input?) I'm also assuming you mean PoE filter, correct?


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

kazak99 said:


> Thanks again, fcfc2,
> 
> Do you have any recommendations for the MoCA adapters (third-party, or the Tivo ones)?
> 
> I understand that one of the filters would go at the phone modem input, one at the initial splitter input on the outside box, but I'm not sure where the third would go (cable modem input?) I'm also assuming you mean PoE filter, correct?


Adapters, these are the best value, IMO, https://www.amazon.com/Yitong-Technology-Ethernet-Adapter-YTMC-51N1-M2/dp/B019MDRX5A
Only 2 filters needed, MoCA POE (Point of Entry) and Whole Home DVR filters are functionally the same thing, one on the input of that first splitter and one on the telephony modem.


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

Wow, thanks for the great info fcfc2! That's a great price for the adapters as well as the amp!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> This is a good price. https://www.neweggbusiness.com/product/product.aspx?item=9b-33-320-249


On the wireless front... At that price, you could buy two of these (ASUS EA-N66R) and set one up as an AP in that downstairs room, hard-wired back to your router (in place of your RP-N12, I believe), and then use the 2nd as the media bridge for the upstairs bedroom Roamio.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> On the wireless front... At that price, you could buy two of these (ASUS EA-N66R) and set one up as an AP in that downstairs room, hard-wired back to your router (in place of your RP-N12, I believe), and then use the 2nd as the media bridge for the upstairs bedroom Roamio.


If I didn't already have two spares I would buy one. It works well with my Roamio in media bridge mode. Perhaps you meant to post to the OP? I use a Netgear R8000 router downstairs.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> If I didn't already have two spares I would buy one. It works well with my Roamio in media bridge mode. Perhaps you meant to post to the OP? I use a Netgear R8000 router downstairs.


Yeah, at that price, I'm thinking about getting one or two for some as yet unknown need.

And my comment *was* intended for the OP; at this point, I've seen enough to know that you (JoeKustra) don't need my advice on wireless networking for TiVos. I *was* hoping, though, that you might confirm that a pair of these would work well for the OP, as suggested, as an AP and media bridge -- at least theoretically, barring some seriously impenetrable flooring.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> Yeah, at that price, I'm thinking about getting one or two for some as yet unknown need.
> 
> And my comment *was* intended for the OP; at this point, I've seen enough to know that you (JoeKustra) don't need my advice on wireless networking for TiVos. I *was* hoping, though, that you might confirm that a pair of these would work well for the OP, as suggested, as an AP and media bridge -- at least theoretically, barring some seriously impenetrable flooring.


I'd have to say "probably". But my media room has TiVo Roamio and Premiere, AVR, Roku 3, this PC, and Blu-ray. The Roamio is on the ASUS. The rest use a Netgear EX7000. It has five Ethernet ports. I use the internal wireless on the TV since I don't need to stream with it.

I was using a Netgear R7500 that would constantly stop talking to the EX7000. Netgear's tech support isn't very friendly. I went with the R8000 since I have more money than time and it has been rock solid. It supports USB3 and an eSATA drive also. It even has TiVo support, similar to Desktop. As long as I shield it from my modem it doesn't cause problems with errors.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> I'd have to say "probably". But my media room has TiVo Roamio and Premiere, AVR, Roku 3, this PC, and Blu-ray. The Roamio is on the ASUS. The rest use a Netgear EX7000. It has five Ethernet ports. I use the internal wireless on the TV since I don't need to stream with it.


I'm thinking that the OP may have luck with this simple setup, so long as they're only trying to provide a wireless link to the upstairs bedroom Roamio from directly below on the 1st floor, and not using the proposed 1st floor EA-N66R as a general purpose AP. In fact, I would think that they might configure both EA-N66R devices strictly for the 5 GHz band, to avoid any interference and dedicate the connection to the upstairs Roamio. (Making the assumption that the 5 GHz connection would make it through the flooring.)


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> I'm thinking that the OP may have luck with this simple setup, so long as they're only trying to provide a wireless link to the upstairs bedroom Roamio from directly below on the 1st floor, and not using the proposed 1st floor EA-N66R as a general purpose AP. In fact, I would think that they might configure both EA-N66R devices strictly for the 5 GHz band, to avoid any interference and dedicate the connection to the upstairs Roamio. (Making the assumption that the 5 GHz connection would make it through the flooring.)


Sorry, I have no experience with that configuration. Everything talks to my router, and except for a printer and one Mini, they all use 5GHz and 802.11ac (some are just 802.11a). The one Mini uses a TiVo wireless N and is next door, but on the same floor and room as the router. It uses the wired basic Roamio as host. My kitchen Mini uses the ASUS connected basic Roamio. That's the worst case connection. But it works every morning. The WUMC710 connected to it indicates a 55% signal.

I guess we'll see how the OP makes out with MoCA. There's plenty of help in that configuration.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> I guess we'll see how the OP makes out with MoCA. There's plenty of help in that configuration.


Thanks for the feedback on the wireless front. As for MoCA, I'm not sure any amplifier, as located, will help with that upstairs bedroom.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

fcfc2 said:


> Based on your description of your layout, there is no reason that MoCA would not work, except for the possibility of a non-MoCA friendly amp, and that could be replaced with one that is compatible with MoCA.





fcfc2 said:


> In your situation if you need to find another MoCA friendly amp, consider one of these, PPC EVOLUTION 9-PORT AMPLIFIER SIGNAL BOOSTER CABLE TV EVO1-9-U/U w/ POWER *NEW* | eBay
> I recommend the "blue" label only version as the older red label is not MoCA friendly and some other brands have builtin MoCA filters which will not work in your case. ... the amps with the builtin filter will block getting MoCA to the bedroom.


Finding an amplifier that will allow MoCA signals to flow laterally, across the amp's output ports, will be simple enough; however, I haven't come across an amp that allows MoCA signals to flow, unimpeded, upstream and downstream, as would be needed for MoCA to reach the OP's upstairs bedroom -- per my understanding of his setup:






​
Does this PPC amp allow MoCA to flow between the input and outputs? I had a hard time finding any MoCA compatibility info for it, until I read the installation document (PDF) -- which left me with some new questions, regarding why the special prioritization for connecting MoCA devices.















I'm also wondering whether the passive EMTA/modem port also has MoCA connectivity, given its omission from the "MoCA Compatible!" info bubble.

---

*Looking at other vendors*, this specs sheet for the PCT-VC-F19A "MoCA Bypass" amplifier underscores that "MoCA Bypass" amps aren't bypassing MoCA around the amps vertically.


> The built-in triplex filter constrains the MoCA signals to the home network while providing the necessary MoCA bypass connection around the amplifier to enable in-home networking between eMTA, set-top boxes and other devices (for example: gaming consoles, PCs, laptops, tablets, etc.).


Rather, this "MoCA Bypass" amp is bypassing the amplifier "laterally" to ensure the MoCA signal can travel between the amplified output ports and the passive, non-amplified modem/EMTA output port -- but "constrains the MoCA signals to the home network." This type of amp would be needed to support, as the specs sheet says, the latest "next-generation MoCA gateways," whereas amps such as the above PPC amp may not provide MoCA connectivity between the passive EMTA/modem port and its other MoCA-definitely-supported (on a sliding scale) output ports.

The diagram from the PCT MoCA Bypass amp specs sheet may make the bypass clearer:















edit: p.s. Informative, semi-related thread on SmallNetBuilder, discussing MoCA bypass amps, with a bit of MoCA "across"/"through" amp confusion tossed in:
MoCA 2.0 with Cable Amplifier​
.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Exploring alternatives... what happens to your 1st floor Roamio's signal levels/reception (and your telephone & Internet service) if you remove your amp from the line, and replace it with a couple (MoCA-compliant) splitters -- trying to minimize the passive loss for the Family Room coax feed?

e.g.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

An amp like you have posted, and actually one of the few without a builtin filter will allow MoCA frequencies to go beyond the amp's input, hopefully well enough to reach that upstairs bedroom.
If it did not, then what is the reason PCT and others bother to put a MoCA filter on their amps? If the MoCA signals would not go back up line why is the filter needed?
Assuming there are not any other impediments, i.e., multiple additional splitter on that line it will work fine, the only other thing I would consider is putting a MoCA rated 2 way at that initial splitter location.
On MoCA friendly amps, the amplification is restricted to the sub 1GHz channels, and the frequencies above that all unrestricted, that is what makes them "friendly".
Fios used to use a PDI 10dB single in and out on lines which were exceptionally long runs or had inaccessible splitters, these provided the necessary boost to the signal on the problem runs, but the MoCA equipment/cable boxes continued to get MoCA signals fine.
My bet is the OP's setup will work fine even without swapping out that first splitter.
EDIT: Hopefully, the OP will let us know one way or the other.
EDIT2: The passive ports are not amplified to allow the cable signal to continue to flow unimpeded to things like modems/VOIP's in case power is lost to the amp for any reason. Most telephony modems have some type of battery backup in them that will allow for a couple hours of use if power is lost.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

fcfc2 said:


> If it did not, then what is the reason PCT and others bother to put a MoCA filter on their amps? If the MoCA signals would not go back up line why is the filter needed?


I have assumed that the built-in filters were to ensure that no MoCA signals pass through the amp, rather than some channels/frequencies possibly slipping through owing to a prior lack of concern for higher frequencies, and to ensure that MoCA signals are efficiently mirrored prior to their reaching the amplifier circuitry. Also, the purpose of the built-in MoCA filter is often advertised as reducing junction box clutter, with the typical use assumed to be as a drop amplifier.



fcfc2 said:


> An amp like you have posted, and actually one of the few without a builtin filter will allow MoCA frequencies to go beyond the amp's input, ...


At least in the case of the PCT amp specs I linked above, the specs explicitly say that the design "constrains the MoCA signals to the home network." This series would appear to effectively filter the MoCA signals from passing through the input port.

Fingers crossed, then... both for success and our hearing about it.


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

A crude rendering, but relative layout of my house in terms of room alignment and equipment placement (thanks krkaufman for your interpretation). This is a cross-section rather then a footprint view.










Aside from the Initial splitter and the Coax amp the only other splitters I use are at the 2 Tivo Roamios which splits the cable - one for the Tivo and the other for the Tuning Adaptor box.

The two cable runs from the initial splitter measure:
Splitter to Coax amp ~10 feet
Splitter to Bedroom ~50 feet

BTW fcfc2, are you using (or have you used) the PPC Evolution amp you are recommending?

Thanks again!


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

That's a really nice diagram.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

kazak99 said:


> BTW fcfc2, are you using (or have you used) the PPC Evolution amp you are recommending?
> 
> Thanks again!


Hi again,
I don't need or use amps right now, but I have several of those amps and the 5 port versions and several others as well. Before I posted this I connected a PPC Evolution 5 port version(Blue label) to one of my coax outlets via it's input,(I do have a MoCA network up and running) and then connected a MoCA 2.0 adapter to one of the amps out ports and powered it up. About a minute later all of the lights were a solid green, it is connected to the rest of my MoCA network through it's "in" port.....if you want me to dig out one of the 9 port versions and test that, I will do it, but I will happily bet you a nickel that it will work in exactly the same fashion.
Do remember to place a MoCA filter on the input of that first splitter and pretty certain, on that Arris Phone Modem.
EDIT: I decided to dig out one of the 9 port versions for you and do the same kind of test. As expected, it worked immediately with the lower ports but because of some unclear wording in the instructions, I tried to connect to one of those upper 4 ports and I could not get a connection only using that one port but this is with only that one being used. 
The instructions caution you about which ports to use when MoCA is enabled which I will repeat.
1. Connect the hub or primary MoCA device to P1.
2. Connect the longest cable runs to P2-P4.
3. Connect the shortest cable runs to P5-P8.
4. If there are 4 or less MoCA devices, utilize P1-P4 only.
Clearly, there is a differential amount of loss between P1-P4 and P-5-P8. The higher ports have the greater amount of loss at the MoCA frequencies. I don't know how for certain what the impact will be in your situation. My testing is not a "real" world situation where there will be several MoCA devices operating on multiple ports at the same time. I still am pretty confident it will work for you but you may have to do a bit of trial and error on which ports to use on which runs. 
I don't know what else to tell you because I know of no other brand of multiport amp that doesn't have a builtin MoCA filter. If it were me, I would use the recommendations on the paperwork and stick your Tivos on the lower tier of ports and see if you get a MoCA connection in that upstairs bedroom. The only thing in addition to adding the MoCA filter on the first 2 way would be to swap that splitter for a MoCA rated one, Verizon or Holland, but only if you can't get a connection.
Good luck and please let us know how you make out.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kazak99 said:


> Aside from the Initial splitter and the Coax amp the only other splitters I use are at the* 2 Tivo Roamios* which splits the cable - one for the Tivo and the other for the *Tuning Adaptor box*.





fcfc2 said:


> Do remember to place a MoCA filter on the input of that first splitter and pretty certain, on that Arris Phone Modem.


Plus 2 more MoCA filters, to be installed on the inputs of each of your tuning adapters. (see here for more info) So 4 MoCA filters total.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kazak99 said:


> There are walls and a masonry fireplace that divides the main part of the house from the family room (wired Tivo) and upstairs bedroom (wireless Tivo). My main router signal (Asus RT-N66U) reaches the family room and bedroom upstairs, but at extremely weak levels, pretty much unusable.


Any reason the cable modem and ASUS RT-N66U couldn't be placed in the Family Room?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> That's a really nice diagram.


Yes, nice diagram. And good bonus details, as well; which leads me to ask...



kazak99 said:


> Wired ethernet is feasible, but difficult. It is not work I want to do on my own or hire others to do at this point (running a line through walls to the attic and then running a line down from the attic through an exterior wall for the outlet).
> 
> Regarding MoCA, the cable supply line comes to an exterior box on the house. From that box the line splits to a cable that runs to the upstairs bedroom via the exterior of the house and a cable that runs to the basement and plugs into an amplifier/splitter. Everything on the bottom floors of the house (not the upstairs) receives its signal from the basement amp/splitter (internet and phone modems and TV cable runs).





kazak99 said:


> The two cable runs from the initial splitter measure:
> *Splitter to Coax amp ~10 feet*
> Splitter to Bedroom ~50 feet


Running a wired Ethernet line all the way to the upstairs bedroom is off the table, but what about... *running one additional coax run from the outside box's "Initial Splitter" to the basement amp location, ~10 feet ?*

With a couple quality barrel connectors you could feed your cable provider signal directly to the amplifier, and then feed the upstairs bedroom off the amplifier outputs, like the rest of your locations. I haven't reviewed your current amp's specs, but this rewiring might even let you get away with keeping that amp (though you probably should consider an upgrade to one of those fancy MoCA Bypass amps, given your telephone service runs off the coax).








.


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> Any reason the cable modem and ASUS RT-N66U couldn't be placed in the Family Room?


The main reason is that it keeps the modem and router right next to my work desk in the basement, which makes it extremely easy for me to access.


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

fcfc2 said:


> Hi again,
> I don't need or use amps right now, but I have several of those amps and the 5 port versions and several others as well. Before I posted this I connected a PPC Evolution 5 port version(Blue label) to one of my coax outlets via it's input,(I do have a MoCA network up and running) and then connected a MoCA 2.0 adapter to one of the amps out ports and powered it up. About a minute later all of the lights were a solid green, it is connected to the rest of my MoCA network through it's "in" port.....if you want me to dig out one of the 9 port versions and test that, I will do it, but I will happily bet you a nickel that it will work in exactly the same fashion.
> Do remember to place a MoCA filter on the input of that first splitter and pretty certain, on that Arris Phone Modem.
> EDIT: I decided to dig out one of the 9 port versions for you and do the same kind of test. As expected, it worked immediately with the lower ports but because of some unclear wording in the instructions, I tried to connect to one of those upper 4 ports and I could not get a connection only using that one port but this is with only that one being used.
> ...


Thanks for clarifying and checking into that for me, plus all the great details. P1 to P4 would allow me to run all of my MoCA devices, and I could convert the family room Tivo (with a 3rd MoCA adapter) as well as the Mini in my basement (both currently running off ethernet). Something like this:


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> Running a wired Ethernet line all the way to the upstairs bedroom is off the table, but what about... *running one additional coax run from the outside box's "Initial Splitter" to the basement amp location, ~10 feet ?*
> 
> With a couple quality barrel connectors you could feed your cable provider signal directly to the amplifier, and then feed the upstairs bedroom off the amplifier outputs, like the rest of your locations. I haven't reviewed your current amp's specs, but this rewiring might even let you get away with keeping that amp (though you probably should consider an upgrade to one of those fancy MoCA Bypass amps, given your telephone service runs off the coax).


It's an interesting idea - I will have to mull it over.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

kazak99 said:


> It's an interesting idea - I will have to mull it over.


Since you only need to use the lower 4 ports to feed your MoCA legs, the odds are good that your current setup will work and be able to reach that upstairs bedroom. I would just try that first, but if that doesn't work, then krkaufman's idea of re-routing that one feed going to the upstairs bedroom is you next most likely plan for success. If you find you have to go that route, just replace the first 2 way with a barrel connector and then move the MoCA filter to the input on the amp, no sense in adding in the run from outside to the MoCA travel and it might boost the MoCA signal enough to get those upper ports working better if needed.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

fcfc2 said:


> Since you only need to use the lower 4 ports to feed your MoCA legs, the odds are good that your current setup will work and be able to reach that upstairs bedroom. I would just try that first, but if that doesn't work, then krkaufman's idea of re-routing that one feed going to the upstairs bedroom is you next most likely plan for success.


I hadn't seen where they said they'd ordered the new amp, so wanted to put this alternate approach out there -- in case it allowed their existing amp to work with MoCA, or to broaden their range of usable amps, as their rerouted setup would now be more in-line with the traditional drop configuration (even if the drop was now inside, rather that in the outside, actual "drop" box).



fcfc2 said:


> If you find you have to go that route, just replace the first 2 way with a barrel connector and then move the MoCA filter to the input on the amp, no sense in adding in the run from outside to the MoCA travel and it might boost the MoCA signal enough to get those upper ports working better if needed.


Yes, agreed. As mentioned above, just 2 barrel connectors would be used in the outside box to reroute the coax lines. In the "rerouted" configuration, the MoCA filter previously spec'd for the input to the outside "Initial Splitter" would instead be placed on the input to the amplifier -- unless the amplifier installed in this altered config includes a built-in MoCA filter. As mentioned above, the rerouted setup opens the OP to a wider range of more traditional drop amps, possibly decreasing cost or increasing functionality -- including having the benefit of the built-in MoCA filter on the MoCA-side of the amp circuitry, likely improving their overall MoCA network quality. (Also, it may moot the MoCA connection priority associated with the PPC EVO1-9, valuable should they look to extend MoCA to any other runs -- though I'm left wondering if this is a particular feature of PPC's design, or if PPC has just been more open than other vendors regarding their amp's capabilities.)


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

Will these PoE filters work - Antronix GLF-1002? I notice the db rejection rate is not as strong as the one Tivo sells (40 dB v. TIvo's 70-80 dB). Here's a link to the Antronix PDF data sheet:

http://www.antronix.com/files//DS-1094-SN_GLF-1002.pdf


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kazak99 said:


> Will these PoE filters work - Antronix GLF-1002? I notice the db rejection rate is not as strong as the one Tivo sells (40 dB v. TIvo's 70-80 dB). Here's a link to the Antronix PDF data sheet:
> 
> http://www.antronix.com/files//DS-1094-SN_GLF-1002.pdf


Interesting question. I think that's basically what I used, and no one's complaining. However, your's is the second post I've seen recently debating the merits of the stopband rejection values for MoCA filters -- and then I came across this in an eBay auction for one model:
TiVo authorized MoCA (PoE) filter for TiVo Bolt, TiVo Roamio and prior TiVo models. PoE filters that are not TiVo approved or authorized will likely not work to protect your home network. The TiVo Bolt, in particular, requires a specialized filter that provides 70dB of rejection.​Though perhaps this 70dB qualifier was mistakenly attributed to the TiVo BOLT by the seller, as TiVo's online store associates the need with the use of an OTA antenna regardless of TiVo model (which makes some sense, to block *any* MoCA signals from transmitting out the antenna):
IMPORTANT: If you are using a MoCA network with your TiVo and you are sharing the coax with an antenna (on your roof or set-top), a 70dB POE filter is required.​As for the specific model you linked, I'd prefer the stopband being rated all the way through the MoCA 2.0 frequency range (and beyond), 1675+ MHz, but then I haven't analyzed the specs for other MoCA filters to see whether this is all we can expect, at present.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

This PDF details specs I'd expect for stopband rejection frequencies. It's likely the marketing for the other filters was just tying the stopband to the MoCA 1.1 frequency range, regardless of what the actual specs are.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kazak99 said:


> The amp is an Extreme Broadband Engineering Infinity Premise Amplifier, Model IPA1008D-RSVF (supplied by the cable company, Charter).


Received the following information from Extreme Broadband in reply to a query re: your original amp's MoCA capabilities...


> The IPA1008D amplifier has an upper designed frequency passband up to 1000 MHz and we guarantee the performance to that frequency.
> 
> At the MoCA frequencies 1125MHz -1675MHz they will pass through the amplifier between all of the 8 output ports (output 1-8) but with higher loss. Since we dont spec the amp at those frequencies we cant guarantee its performance at the MoCA frequencies. But it will pass them but at higher losses. Many cable operators have good success with MoCA through these amps by following a few guidelines which I have attached. (PDF)
> 
> We do make an amplifier IPA2008DL2-RSVF that is designed for MoCA and has a MoCA filter built into it. It does not pass MoCA from output ports through the input. For most MoCA applications you dont want the MoCA signal to go out the input.


The instructions in that PDF seem familiar.


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> Received the following information from Extreme Broadband in reply to a query re: your original amp's MoCA capabilities...
> 
> The instructions in that PDF seem familiar.


Wow, thanks so much for getting the details and a response from EB about the amp!!!

I went to the local Charter office today and picked up extra coax cable, barrel connectors, and PoE filter (the Antronix GLF-1002 - it's all they had). The did not carry any other powered amp/splitters.

I have already switched out the initial splitter and joined the two sets of wires with the barrel connectors. No problem with the signals on both Tivos - getting all my channels too.

I have ordered the 2 Yitong Technology MoCA 2.0 Ethernet to Coax Adapter (as recommended by fcfc2).

I will try out the Extreme Broadband amp that I have and see if it works before ordering the PPC Evo.

Any idea where to buy the correct PoE filters (buying 4 from Tivo is around $50 with shipping and tax - ugh). I looked at both ebay and Amazon and couldn't find much of a break. I also tried searching for the Soontai PoE you linked to earlier, krkaufman, but I can't find anyone who sells them. Any third-party PoE filters that meet the Tivo specs?

Here's an updated rendering of the new MoCA plan:


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kazak99 said:


> I went to the local Charter office today and picked up extra coax cable, barrel connectors, and PoE filter (the Antronix GLF-1002 - it's all they had). ...
> 
> Any idea where to buy the correct PoE filters (buying 4 from Tivo is around $50 with shipping and tax - ugh). I looked at both ebay and Amazon and couldn't find much of a break. I also tried searching for the Soontai PoE you linked to earlier, krkaufman, but I can't find anyone who sells them. Any third-party PoE filters that meet the Tivo specs?


Nice. But Charter wouldn't give you more than the 1 PoE filter? If you can get all 4 from them, that's the way to go. I wouldn't stress too much about the 70dB rejection level; I'm leaning towards that being something strictly related to OTA antenna setups, rather than cable. 40dB should be fine.



> I have already switched out the initial splitter and joined the two sets of wires with the barrel connectors. No problem with the signals on both Tivos - getting all my channels too.


Great to hear! You now have a more traditional top-down coax architecture, even if your "drop" is now in your basement, rather than in the outside junction box. (May want to leave a note in that outside box for the cable technician, so they'll know you fixed their setup and to lessen the chance of their messing it up.)



> I will try out the Extreme Broadband amp that I have and see if it works before ordering the PPC Evo.


Note that with your new wiring setup, should you look to replace your current EB amp, you needn't restrict yourself to the PPC EVO1. You might benefit from looking at an amp with a built-in MoCA filter, providing better reflection of your MoCA signals back onto your coax lines than you'd get with a MoCA filter on the input of an amp. You may also benefit, in the future, from having an amp allowing MoCA connectivity to the passive modem/EMTA port. (Putting aside the special MoCA instructions for both the EB IPA & PPC EVO amps.)

One example: PCT-VC-F19A (specs sheet) (Amazon)



> Here's an updated rendering of the new MoCA plan: (diagram)


Excellent update to the diagram. It looks like it has everything right where it needs to be.

Note that your TiVo Mini could connect via Ethernet *or* MoCA to your network, though your final choice might hinge on which Roamio to which it will connect as its host DVR. If it will primarily attach to the Family Room Roamio, it might be best on Ethernet; if the upstairs bedroom Roamio, MoCA.

edit: I suppose the only thing missing from the diagram, that might be helpful to know, is whether you have battery backup for any of the pictured equipment. (e.g. If the amp's power supply, the cable modem and ASUS router are all on a UPS, then your Internet access, at least wireless, would be available through short power outages.)


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> Nice. But Charter wouldn't give you more than the 1 PoE filter? If you can get all 4 from them, that's the way to go. I wouldn't stress too much about the 70dB rejection level; I'm leaning towards that being something strictly related to OTA antenna setups, rather than cable. 40dB should be fine.


Actually, they gave me 5, so I'll give them a try.



> Great to hear! You now have a more traditional top-down coax architecture, even if your "drop" is now in your basement, rather than in the outside junction box. (May want to leave a note in that outside box for the cable technician, so they'll know you fixed their setup and to lessen the chance of their messing it up.)


Thanks for the barrel connector tip!!!



> Note that with your new wiring setup, should you look to replace your current EB amp, you needn't restrict yourself to the PPC EVO1. You might benefit from looking at an amp with a built-in MoCA filter, providing better reflection of your MoCA signals back onto your coax lines than you'd get with a MoCA filter on the input of an amp. You may also benefit, in the future, from having an amp allowing MoCA connectivity to the passive modem/EMTA port. (Putting aside the special MoCA instructions for both the EB IPA & PPC EVO amps.)
> 
> One example: PCT-VC-F19A (specs sheet) (Amazon)


I'll still try the old one first, and then upgrade to your example, if it fails. Thanks again for the recommendation and the links.



> Excellent update to the diagram. It looks like it has everything right where it needs to be.
> 
> Note that your TiVo Mini could connect via Ethernet *or* MoCA to your network, though your final choice might hinge on which Roamio to which it will connect as its host DVR. If it will primarily attach to the Family Room Roamio, it might be best on Ethernet; if the upstairs bedroom Roamio, MoCA.


Good point. I'll keep the Mini on ethernet for now since it primarily connects to the family room Tivo. If I get a 3rd MoCA adapter for the fam. room Tivo I will switch to Coax for the Mini.



> edit: I suppose the only thing missing from the diagram, that might be helpful to know, is whether you have battery backup for any of the pictured equipment. (e.g. If the amp's power supply, the cable modem and ASUS router are all on a UPS, then your Internet access, at least wireless, would be available through short power outages.)


Basement computer, monitor, Asus RT-N66U router, and Motorola modem are all on UPS backup.

Cheers, krkaufman!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kazak99 said:


> Actually, they gave me 5, so I'll give them a try.


Generous!! (Or were they just trying to get you to go away...?!?!)



> Thanks for the barrel connector tip!!!


No problem; happy to help. Though it only came about because of your diagram and excellent detail regarding the coax run lengths from that outside initial splitter. So give yourself a pat on the back.



> Basement computer, monitor, Asus RT-N66U router, and Motorola modem are all on UPS backup.


What about the amplifier's power supply? (And I'm assuming the telephone modem has an internal battery. Yes?)

Great work; hope the final leg goes as well, once those MoCA adapters arrive. And, again, great communication. (Love when diagrams are provided. SO helpful.)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

p.s. Nice touch. Those actually look like little barrels.


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> p.s. Nice touch. Those actually look like little barrels.


I'm glad you enjoyed my humorous attempt.



> Generous!! (Or were they just trying to get you to go away...?!?!)


Charter told me they no longer supported MoCA. But when the tech in the truck was cutting the cable for me I asked if he had any PoE filters and sure enough he gave me what he had - dumb luck on my part.



> No problem; happy to help. Though it only came about because of your diagram and excellent detail regarding the coax run lengths from that outside initial splitter. So give yourself a pat on the back.


Thank you, again. Sometimes pictures are worth...



> What about the amplifier's power supply? (And I'm assuming the telephone modem has an internal battery. Yes?)


Unfortunately, the Cable amp and phone modem don't have UPS backup (or internal battery power). I've got a cell phone, so not too worried. Maybe sometime in the future I will update - thanks for the suggestion.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kazak99 said:


> dumb luck on my part.


As they say, made your own luck.



> Unfortunately, the Cable amp and phone modem don't have UPS backup (or internal battery power). I've got a cell phone, so not too worried. Maybe sometime in the future I will update - thanks for the suggestion.


Ok, I was just thinking that the benefit of the cable modem and router being on battery power might be moot if the amplifier lost power. Depending on which amp you end up with, you might be able to use a power inserter to feed the amp power from a power adapter plugged into your UPS.

Cheers!


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

I received the Yitong MoCA adapters today and have installed all the new equipment as shown in the diagram below.










I have tried to change the connection type on the Tivo Roamio in the bedroom to MoCA, but there is no MoCA option to choose.

My assumption is that the Extreme Broadband Coax amp is not handling the MoCA signal, therefore the bedroom Roamio is not receiving it.

I just wanted to check to see if I am missing something or if I should check another setting on the Tivo before ordering the new PCT MoCA enabled Coax amp (as suggested by krkaufman above).


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

I think I spoke/wrote too soon. The bedroom is receiving/loading updates and I was able to transfer a show between my 2 Roamios. When update is loaded I will check on status and speeds.


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

Yeehaw! My transfer speed now is 92Mb/s. Streaming between Tivos seems to work too (I'll try it out over the next couple of days to confirm).

THANKS again to Joe, fcfc2, and krkaufman!!!!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kazak99 said:


> Yeehaw! My transfer speed now is 92Mb/s. Streaming between Tivos seems to work too (I'll try it out over the next couple o days to confirm).


Great to hear, even if preliminary.  And this is with the original IPA1008D amp in place, but only sending MoCA laterally across its outputs?

To set a baseline, you may want to document your current MoCA stats, giving you something against which to compare if/when you make changes to your network.

See: Checking MoCA connection quality


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kazak99 said:


> My transfer speed now is 92Mb/s.


Can't ask for much more given your basic Roamios are limited to Fast Ethernet, 100 Mbps. :up:


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> Great to hear, even if preliminary.  And this is with the original IPA1008D amp in place, but only sending MoCA laterally across its outputs?


That is correct - still using the BE IPA1008D amp. Transferred a second recording and the throughput speed was 93Mb/s.

Watched a 30 minute show streaming between the 2 Roamios and no problems at all.



> Can't ask for much more given your basic Roamios are limited to Fast Ethernet, 100 Mbps.


Couldn't agree more!

Couple of notes:

On the bedroom Roamio I still don't see the Connect Using MoCA option on the Change Network Settings page. The bedroom Roamio says it is using ethernet.

My Mini is not working - not Live TV or trying to watch My Show recordings from my Family room Roamio and bedroom Tivo (I get a v113 "Can't Watch Now" error). I think I might switch the Mini to Coax cable rather than ethernet.


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

kazak99 said:


> On the bedroom Roamio I still don't see the Connect Using MoCA option on the Change Network Settings page. The bedroom Roamio says it is using ethernet.


Perhaps because it is a basic Roamio rather then a Plus or Pro and does not have MoCA built-in?



> My Mini is not working - not Live TV or trying to watch My Show recordings from my Family room Roamio and bedroom Tivo (I get a v113 "Can't Watch Now" error). I think I might switch the Mini to Coax cable rather than ethernet.


I restarted the Mini and now it works with both the Family room and bedroom Roamios (still connected by ethernet, not coax).


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kazak99 said:


> On the bedroom Roamio I still don't see the Connect Using MoCA option on the Change Network Settings page. The bedroom Roamio says it is using ethernet.





kazak99 said:


> Perhaps because it is a basic Roamio rather then a Plus or Pro and does not have MoCA built-in?


Entirely correct. The basic Roamio only sees an Ethernet connnection.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kazak99 said:


> I restarted the Mini and now it works with both the Family room and bedroom Roamios (still connected by ethernet, not coax).


Good to hear.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> To set a baseline, you may want to document your current MoCA stats, giving you something against which to compare if/when you make changes to your network.
> 
> See: Checking MoCA connection quality


p.s. I realized, after the fact, that the above measurement technique isn't applicable for you, since you don't have any TiVo devices running MoCA, at present. Maybe the Yitong adapters have a configuration UI that reports their stats...?

Anyway, not really a worry if everything's happily humming along.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kazak99, I just came across your final network diagram while researching an issue for another thread, and noticed that your setup might benefit from a similar change as recommended for this other setup, per this post:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10999661

NOTE: _... ignoring the bits about relocating the PoE filter._

In your case, the MoCA adapter would be inserted b/w the Family Room 2-way splitter and either the Roamio or tuning adapter, though feeding the TA coax input from the MoCA adapter would allow for removal of the PoE filter from the TA.​YMMV; if it ain't broke, don't fix it, etc... but I just wanted to toss it over the fence, should you ever find yourself annoyed at loss of TiVo-to-TiVo streaming when your router is rebooted/offline.

p.s. Again, nice diagram.


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> p.s. I realized, after the fact, that the above measurement technique isn't applicable for you, since you don't have any TiVo devices running MoCA, at present. Maybe the Yitong adapters have a configuration UI that reports their stats...?
> 
> Anyway, not really a worry if everything's happily humming along.


I recently switched my Mini connection through MoCA (coax cable) rather than ethernet cable. The results look positive and I have no problems streaming from either of my 2 Roamios. Here is a snap of the results:


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> kazak99, I just came across your final network diagram while researching an issue for another thread, and noticed that your setup might benefit from a similar change as recommended for this other setup, per this post:
> http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10999661
> 
> NOTE: _... ignoring the bits about relocating the PoE filter._
> ...


Very Interesting and I like your reasoning (router outage coverage)! I had always assumed I needed to have one of the adapters connected to the modem/router. If I understand you correctly then my new setup should look like this:










I will have to try this new hookup this weekend.

Thanks again, krkaufman!!!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kazak99 said:


> I recently switched my Mini connection through MoCA (coax cable) rather than ethernet cable. The results look positive and I have no problems streaming from either of my 2 Roamios. Here is a snap of the results: ...


Yep, good PHY rates, and the -13.0 dBm power estimate means MoCA's working at reduced power. (normal power being 0dBm and max boost +3.0 dBm) The max reduction is -30 dBm but I've only seen -27, personally.

Good to hear things are humming.

edit: p.s. Right. I *was* wondering why the power reduction factor wasn't better, and then I just remembered, when looking at your diagram, that your drop amplifier is not a "designed for MoCA" amp.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kazak99 said:


> Very Interesting and I like your reasoning (router outage coverage)! I had always assumed I needed to have one of the adapters connected to the modem/router.


Your main bridging MoCA adapter just needs to connect to the common coax lines and its Ethernet port needs to connect back to the Ethernet LAN ports of your router, though not necessarily directly. (e.g. It could connect to a switch which is in-turn connected back to the router's LAN ports.)



kazak99 said:


> If I understand you correctly then my new setup should look like this:
> 
> http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums...ernet wiring in house v4 MoCA_zps6gqgaxkx.jpg


Close, but a slight tweak is needed. The MoCA adapter needs to connect to the TP-Link switch in order to continue bridging between your coax/MoCA network and your Ethernet LAN home network. As presently diagrammed, the MoCA adapter is only connected to the Roamio, and you're left without any bridge between your coax lines and your Ethernet LAN.

Additionally, the Roamio will also need to connect through the TP-Link switch for its Ethernet connectivity, as in your previous diagram.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

One thing to keep in mind if you do decide to move your main MoCA adapter is the earlier special instructions regarding your not-quite-MoCA-friendly amp, especially the note regarding connecting your main MoCA node to the P1 port on the amp:



krkaufman said:


>





fcfc2 said:


> I decided to dig out one of the 9 port versions for you and do the same kind of test. As expected, it worked immediately with the lower ports but because of some unclear wording in the instructions, I tried to connect to one of those upper 4 ports and I could not get a connection only using that one port but this is with only that one being used.
> 
> The instructions caution you about which ports to use when MoCA is enabled which I will repeat.
> 
> ...


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> Your main bridging MoCA adapter just needs to connect to the common coax lines and its Ethernet port needs to connect back to the Ethernet LAN ports of your router, though not necessarily directly. (e.g. It could connect to a switch which is in-turn connected back to the router's LAN ports.)
> 
> Close, but a slight tweak is needed. The MoCA adapter needs to connect to the TP-Link switch in order to continue bridging between your coax/MoCA network and your Ethernet LAN home network. As presently diagrammed, the MoCA adapter is only connected to the Roamio, and you're left without any bridge between your coax lines and your Ethernet LAN.
> 
> Additionally, the Roamio will also need to connect through the TP-Link switch for its Ethernet connectivity, as in your previous diagram.


Thank you for clarifying the setup, krkaufman. Updated with tweaks:


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kazak99 said:


> Thank you for clarifying the setup, krkaufman. Updated with tweaks:
> 
> http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums...ernet wiring in house v5 MoCA_zpsxytpbfp6.jpg


Yep, that's got it right. Good luck...


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

I made the switch today and the new setup is working great - same speeds when transferring and streaming (~93Mbps). My Mini reports that the Tx and Rx PHY speeds are about the same. The Tx Power Estimate (dBm) shows -5.0.

Thanks again for the tip, krkaufman!!!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kazak99 said:


> I made the switch today and the new setup is working great - same speeds when transferring and streaming (~93Mbps). My Mini reports that the Tx and Rx PHY speeds are about the same. The Tx Power Estimate (dBm) shows -5.0.


Excellent. (i.e. glad my suggestion didn't cause more hassles than it's likely to avoid)

The main improvement possible, at this point, would be upgrading the amp to a MoCA Bypass model, but if things are working through the current amp it's not a necessity.

Enjoy...!


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