# The State Of Status In The States



## TrainManG (Apr 21, 2003)

Information coming on the worrying news I got in the States last week.

Will post Friday.

Watch this space.

Geoff.


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## Tim L (Jan 5, 2002)

Talk about suspense! Still checking your facts, I gather?


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Best thread title ever


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## mista_c (Aug 2, 2003)

TrainManG said:


> Watch this space.
> 
> Geoff.


You wouldn't happen to work for Tivo UK/ Sky would you? This is what they keep telling me everytime I ask for an update on this issue or for the 'snooze' fix to be applied.


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## TrainManG (Apr 21, 2003)

mista_c said:


> You wouldn't happen to work for Tivo UK/ Sky would you? This is what they keep telling me everytime I ask for an update on this issue or for the 'snooze' fix to be applied.


No, I definitely don't!!!!

I teach people to drive trains now, but, in the 'problems with accounts' thread there is a short CV which someone requested.

I doubt that Sky would say that I work for them, just that I am across the problem - at least I hope I am!!

As to the delay, I have to go to Preston in about 20 mins as my Partner was visiting her father and has broken her wrist after being hit by a car. Gotta drive her back!!

Geoff.


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## mista_c (Aug 2, 2003)

This was a joke... Perhaps my humour is too dry.. 

Anyway, I await your news with some anticipation (or trepidation?) and appreciate your efforts in trying to get to the bottom of this.

Oh, I spoke with customer services last night and (after complaining that this wasn't acceptable etc) they called me back, told me that they'd just spoken with Tivo US, and they were in the 'final stages of resolving the problem'. They seemed to think a proper fix would be applied in the next few days (if not, by Sunday) and at the very least Tivo UK/Sky would be able to snooze accounts themselves again. I'm not holding my breath though...


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## Tim L (Jan 5, 2002)

mista_c said:


> Oh, I spoke with customer services last night and (after complaining that this wasn't acceptable etc) they called me back, told me that they'd just spoken with Tivo US, and they were in the 'final stages of resolving the problem'.


Are you sure they didn't say they were working on a 'final solution'?


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## Tim L (Jan 5, 2002)

The Day is upon us. What will the news be? Free lollipops for loyal customers?


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Nah. They're finally stopping the UK service from Sept 1st 

(I'm *joking*! I really have no idea!)


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Am I the only one that feels there's some grandstanding and ego puffing going on?


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## ghstone (Apr 12, 2003)

Tim L said:


> The Day is upon us. What will the news be? Free lollipops for loyal customers?


for one week only upgrade your monthly sub to a lifetime for £50... after that no more monthly subs as the cost of collection and administration outweighs the value to TIVO inc.

moght not be too far off actually...


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

ColinYounger said:


> Am I the only one that feels there's some grandstanding and ego puffing going on?


No, you're not the only one...


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Tim L said:


> The Day is upon us. What will the news be? Free lollipops for loyal customers?


Announcement of the new Series 3 TiVo for the UK - and the problems with account transfers have been caused by upgrades to the server software required to support UK S1 and S3 machines at the same time.

Just my $0.02


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

blindlemon said:


> Announcement of the new Series 3 TiVo for the UK - and the problems with account transfers have been caused by upgrades to the server software required to support UK S1 and S3 machines at the same time.
> 
> Just my $0.02


That, or they're shutting down the existing UK EPG service. Anything in between and I'll be very disappointed after this build up!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Tim L said:


> Are you sure they didn't say they were working on a 'final solution'?


For instance "due to the now great antiquity of the UK Tivo S1 recorder and lack of dual tuners etc and increasing difficulties in continuing to support it in the UK Tivo have managed to negotiate a special deal for all UK Tivo customers with Virgin and Sky where they will generously install you with their latest HD PVR entirely free of charge and also give you the first 6 months subscription free so long as you sign an 18 month contract to their top HD channel package"............

No hang on that won't work and they will have to wait till at least mid 2009 so there is also an established Freeview and Freesat HD PVR option available too subject to a special low box price deal with certain specific manufacturers for ex Tivo customers..............

On the other hand isn't Tivo now planning to try and launch its service worldwide and on PC based platforms too? Or has that project been canned due to the impending global economic recession?


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

If they were to end the UK Tivo EPG service I am sure they would give us some warning and perhaps end it on 1/4/09.

Automan.


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## ghstone (Apr 12, 2003)

Hmm, surely the whole reason for the S1 still being in use, and our continued support of it, is that it isn't a dual tuner satelite, cable or Freeview box ?

If the first TIVO I bought had only worked with Analogue TV, we would have stopped using it long ago - the signal on the 4 channels we can receive has got worse, to the point where we only have one clear channel. I then got a DiY FTA Satellite solution with Quad LNB and switched the Tivo over to use that, and I've since added another with FreeSAT. If the promised Freeview coverage ever arrives (2012 ?) and my Tivos still work then I'll try that too.

I don't really want a Tivo with built in anything, what I want is a TIVO that can control anything and does HD.

Graham


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## ghstone (Apr 12, 2003)

Automan said:


> If they were to end the UK Tivo EPG service I am sure they would give us some warning and perhaps end it on 1/4/09.
> 
> Automan.


To tie in with the Fiscal year, or to have one last laugh ?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

They really ought to stop selling the Lifetime Subs first and then carry on for at least another 20 months to avoid any demands for refunds and other adverse publicity.

Of course that won't happen in a force majeure situation such as bankruptcy of Tivo Inc or a sudden hostile takeover by Sky though.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> sudden hostile takeover by Sky though.


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Not going to happen.


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## ghstone (Apr 12, 2003)

they still sell lifetime subs ? I hadn't realised....


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## ghstone (Apr 12, 2003)

surely Sky aren't big enough ? I din't think they had any presence in the U.S., which as we all know is 'the world' as far as Wall Street is concerned...


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

ghstone said:


> surely Sky aren't big enough ? I din't think they had any presence in the U.S., which as we all know is 'the world' as far as Wall Street is concerned...


Buying TiVo is one way of improving the dreck software Sky currently ship with their PVR hardware. Unfortunately it would also eliminate TiVo as a choice for anybody else not using the Sky platform.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Sky itself isn't, but Sky is owned by news-corp, rupert murdoch's company, which is "quite large" internationally 

It owns the fox network in the US amongst others...


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikerr said:


> Sky itself isn't, but Sky is owned by news-corp, rupert murdoch's company, which is "quite large" internationally
> 
> It owns the fox network in the US amongst others...


Sky are only part owned by Newscorp as my friend who works at the firm of accountants who audit Sky is very keen to point out.


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## ghstone (Apr 12, 2003)

Yes, and they are quite keen to distance themselves from SKY when it suits -any adverse publicity, talk of monopolies when they announce another takeover etc.


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

Pete77 said:


> Sky are only part owned by Newscorp as my friend who works at the firm of accountants who audit Sky is very keen to point out.


I don't believe that - you have a friend?


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

Milhouse said:


> I don't believe that - you have a friend?


He did (sorta) say accountant


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

pgogborn said:


> He did (sorta) say accountant


Or more specifically "works at the firm of accountants" - could be the tea boy!


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Remember, Pete's a Sky shareholder and his 'friend' is the advisor.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

ghstone said:


> To tie in with the Fiscal year, or to have one last laugh ?


A last laugh 

Re Sky, don't they own a slice of Tivo which they gained when they (Tivo USA) broke the deal when Tivo pulled out of the U.K?

Automan.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

TCM's site has some Sky news.

Portent?


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

ColinYounger said:


> TCM's site has some Sky news.
> 
> Portent?


Sounds like a very bad idea - they should focus on delivering a stable platform that doesn't crash every week and reliably performs it's primary function which is to record programmes in their entirety! Only once that objective is achieved should they then start adding these bells & whistles!

What they are discussing in that article sounds a lot like TiVo2Go, no? Only I'm sure the Sky/NDS version will crash the STB part-way through the file transfer, taking the programme content with it.


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## ghstone (Apr 12, 2003)

Automan said:


> A last laugh
> 
> Re Sky, don't they own a slice of Tivo which they gained when they (Tivo USA) broke the deal when Tivo pulled out of the U.K?
> 
> Automan.


I understood Tivo to have pulled out of the UK after SKY launched SKY+, have I got his the wrong way round ?


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Well they didn't "pull out" so much as be completely overwhelmed by the Sky marketing machine, who switched to promoting their own Sky+ over Tivo.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Milhouse said:


> Or more specifically "works at the firm of accountants" - could be the tea boy!


Wrong. He's one of the Partners and unlike me has no problem affording the top level of monthly Sky pay subscription.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ColinYounger said:


> Remember, Pete's a Sky shareholder and his 'friend' is the advisor.


I'm about as likely to ever buy shares in Sky as I am in one of my other most hated UK companies - namely Easyjet.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

pgogborn said:


> He did (sorta) say accountant


Is there some kind of public holiday today over in the USA?

Surely the matter of my friend at the firm that audits Sky was not of its own right interesting enough to suddenly see you return to making a post on the UK side of the forum?


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## ghstone (Apr 12, 2003)

Pete77 said:


> Is there some kind of public holiday today over in the USA?
> 
> Surely the matter of my friend at the firm that audits Sky was not of its own right interesting enough to suddenly see you return to making a post on the UK side of the forum?


could it be that like those of us in the UK, Tivo fans stateside are also waiting with baited breath to find out what's going on at Tivo HQ ?
I've left this thread open most of the day and just kept refreshing the page in the hope that TrainManG would report back, but the Pub is now calling so I'm off.

i'll leae myself a note not to post any replies when I return


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Is there some kind of public holiday today over in the USA?
> 
> Surely the matter of my friend at the firm that audits Sky was not of its own right interesting enough to suddenly see you return to making a post on the UK side of the forum?


I tried to resist, the spirit was willing but the flesh was weak - I am still sore that somebody once suggested that you could be me 

But if it helps last week my TiVo hard drive shuffled off its mortal coil to meet its maker.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

pgogborn said:


> I tried to resist, the spirit was willing but the flesh was weak - I am still sore that somebody once suggested that you could be me


I thought time was meant to be the great healer and all that kind of thing.



> But if it helps last week my TiVo hard drive shuffled off its mortal coil to meet its maker.


Would that be an HD Tivo S3 hard drive shuffling off its mortal coil? Those of us in the third world land of the Sky controlled UK can only dream of such luxuries.

I take it you are not an avid follower of the Olympic Games then?


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Would that be an HD Tivo S3 hard drive shuffling off its mortal coil? Those of us in the third world land of the Sky controlled UK can only dream of such luxuries.


TiVo Series 1 - I am a Brit residing on the South coast of England.

(obviously I remember you better than you remember me )


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

I do hope this "thoroughly researched" announcement isn't just one big wind up because that's what it's beginning to feel like...


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## TrainManG (Apr 21, 2003)

Am writing the facts at the moment. Just got back from Preston.
Novel how my small announcement has created the strange meanderings from the original topic. From what I've read - so far- nobody has come close!

Geoff.


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## TrainManG (Apr 21, 2003)

Right, here we go.

I went to the US and Alviso the week before last and attempted to speak with 'someone in the know'.

All very secretive there and they didn't want to speak to me, so I went to the local Radio stations and questioned reporters there about the local relationships with TiVo.

They are regarded as a bit 'strange' and not too forthcoming. Probably worried about people stealing their development, I suppose.

Anyway, someone overheard me whilst I was at TiVo HQ and followed me when I left the building, prior to my Radio visits, and spoke to me. Nice chap, who was very aware of the problems we are experiencing in the UK.

He is some sort of IT dept member, and gave me some interesting - and possibly for some - worrying information.

It seems they are trying to fix the problem but are not being allowed any funds to do so. Thus it is taking forever, and may possibly never be fixed. (IMHO.)

They are, as someone else has mentioned here, trying to put a patch in to allow SKY to 'snooze' the units locally, but they are more interested in the Aussie launch and the phenomenal uptake of the HD system in the US to spend any appreciable time on 'our little problem'.

The chap inferred it may be something to do with the hyphens in our SNs, but they're not too sure. The new units in the US use a different sort of registration system. A bit like automatically setting up a new SKY box, apparently. Saves them time and money. (More profit, I suppose.)

More to follow.

We are now in regular contact and, as I get more info from him, I'll post it, but I now need my bed. Been up 26 hours.

Geoff.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TrainManG said:


> All very secretive there and they didn't want to speak to me.


What would one expect in a company where the UK Tivo service is now apparently such a dirty word that they refused to even foot the bill to renew the domain name www.tivo.co.uk



> He is some sort of IT dept member, and gave me some interesting - and possibly for some - worrying information. It seems they are trying to fix the problem but are not being allowed any funds to do so. Thus it is taking forever, and may possibly never be fixed. (IMHO.)
> 
> The chap inferred it may be something to do with the hyphens in our SNs, but they're not too sure. We are now in regular contact and, as I get more info from him, I'll post it, but I now need my bed. Been up 26 hours.


But I wonder if your Deep Throat at Tivo will still feel in a position to continue talking to you once he realises what he has revealed to you is being published in a thread on the UK section of www.tivocommunity.com:rolleyes:

It does seem odd that Tivo refuse to fix a problem that will slowly but surely deprive them of nearly all monthly subscription income from UK Tivo owners. A cynical mind might believe there has been a deliberate internal sabotaging of the UK subscription software routines in order to hasten the business case for termination of the UK Tivo service sooner rather than later.:down:


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

pgogborn said:


> TiVo Series 1 - I am a Brit residing on the South coast of England.
> 
> (obviously I remember you better than you remember me )


You last said to me that you only participated in the US sections of tivocommunity these days. I suppose I incorrectly assumed a move across the pond from those comments.

Does that mean that if the BBC decide to run another Broadcast Assassins session that you will be there after all?


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## ghstone (Apr 12, 2003)

Ok, read my own post-it to self , but in the light of Geoff's post, a thought:-

How about they outsource the whole thing to folks in the UK who actually care enough, and have enough technical knowledge, to sort it out ?

This is just software, I've been doing this for over 25 years and as we say 'anything is possilble it just takes time and money';

So redirect the UK subs calls to a UK based system, pass the subscription validation part of the code over to the UK AND let them manage the subscription collection, paying a proportion back to TIVO inc in the U.S. who retain control of the actual content distribution.

A UK based outfit could take on all code maintenance of the validation piece and it would be in their interest to provide a good service to UK TIVO users, as otherwise there would be no fundng.

While the organisation I work for, and indeed myself and colleagues, could easily do this, I am not in a position to make it happen now - we do bigger things - but it is sonething which I could put together as a new venture, the skills, people, infrastructure, access to a call centre etc is all there.

Of course in the UK we have Escrow agrreements, so that if a supplier is unable to fulfill it's commitment the Intellectual Property required to provide it is made available to the customer or a Third party - I don't suppose there is one with TIVO ? - and it might not apply if said company withdraws the service, rather than folds, but food for thought, we all bought a lifetime service right ?

So, back to how we were then - don't reassign subs, and if you buy a monthly subbed unit, beware !

Graham


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## ghstone (Apr 12, 2003)

TrainManG said:


> Right, here we go.
> 
> The chap inferred it may be something to do with the hyphens in our SNs, but they're not too sure.
> 
> Geoff.


So, a simple 'shim' is al that is needed.

The serial number must exist in their database, otherwise lifetime subs would not work, so either fix the existing code (probably can't put the data in the right format to interrrogate the Database fior monthly suibs) or convert all current stored UK serial numbers to the new format and intrroduce a shim which converts them on the fly.

Given the data formats and processes this is trivial, but I can understand that in a support department this doesn't feature highly on their list of things to fix. esp as it doesn't benefit those actualy paying to run the department.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

With the low number of monthly subs the income must be quite low and I expect after nearly eight years the head honcho's and the boss of their finance department consider it to be flogging a dead horse.

It maybe their cost to tribune (or whoever provides the epg) is costing them more than they make out of the UK business.

Our boxes have had a good run, and a lot longer than my BSB Squarial lasted 

TV will never be the same in the UK without Tivo 

Automan.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

TrainManG said:


> Information coming on the worrying news I got in the States last week..


OK....


TrainManG said:


> It seems they are trying to fix the problem but are not being allowed any funds to do so.





TrainManG said:


> they are more interested in the Aussie launch and the phenomenal uptake of the HD system in the US to spend any appreciable time on 'our little problem'.


Maybe it's me, but I don't see anything remotely surprising or worrying in any of this. *Of course* they are more interested in the Australian launch at the moment;* of course* they don't want to throw buckets of money at fixing problems with reactivation of a few 'snoozed' UK subs....

Sorry, but I fail to see the problem. In fact, as I see it:-

- Australian launch = *good news!*
- Phenomenal uptake of the HD system in the US = *very good news!*


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> What would one expect in a company where the UK Tivo service is now apparently such a dirty word that they refused to even foot the bill to renew the domain name www.tivo.co.uk


Or possibly because they had no idea who he was and could quite easily have been from a competing company.



Pete77 said:


> It does seem odd that Tivo refuse to fix a problem...


Are they 'refusing' are are they having problems? I thought it was the latter.

But no, you're probably right


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## katman (Jun 4, 2002)

blindlemon said:


> OK....
> Sorry, but I fail to see the problem. In fact, as I see it:-
> 
> - Australian launch = *good news!*
> - Phenomenal uptake of the HD system in the US = *very good news!*


Just need to see one more line added to that......

- UK Relaunch with Series 3 = *absolutely brilliant news!!!!!!*

Heres hoping


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> Maybe it's me, but I don't see anything remotely surprising or worrying in any of this. *Of course* they are more interested in the Australian launch at the moment;* of course* they don't want to throw buckets of money at fixing problems with reactivation of a few 'snoozed' UK subs....
> 
> Sorry, but I fail to see the problem. In fact, as I see it:-


Surely it is a definite problem and business issue for you, Tivoland and Tivocentral as you are not likely to see any more redundant (due to Sky HD or Sky+ upgrade etc) monthly subbed boxes being resold in to the hands of new Tivo customers and then upgraded via your service?

This is because the new owner of a monthly subbed box will not now be able to take out a subscription for it. I can hardly see the old owner being willing to leave their card details with Tivo while the new owner pays them £10 per month by Standing Order?


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Surely it is a definite problem and business issue for you, Tivoland and Tivocentral as you are not likely to see any more redundant (due to Sky HD or Sky+ upgrade etc) monthly subbed boxes being resold in to the hands of new Tivo customers and then upgraded via your service?


To be honest, only a very small proportion of my sales is accounted for by this scenario.

By far the greatest number (I'd guess at least 95%) is people replacing their original 40gb drives (still!) and other long term TiVo owners re-upgrading or replacing failed upgrade drives fitted a few years ago.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

I don't see this as a surprise - more that some here find it a surprise. What's in it for them to fix it? Also, why are we all diving on the speculation of a grandstandee?

TCM's poll showed around 20&#37; pay monthly. All 31 of them. That doesn't even cover OzSat's salary. D) 

We've got a legacy product that can't be supported forever. For those in the know, there's an (illegal) solution to the lockout detailed in the other place. For the rest, TiVo doesn't care if they lapse.

What interests me is the Unasked. Why TrainManG is so involved? Why does he have so many TiVos? Why is he bearing our torch? Let's know the motivations before we get involved.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

ColinYounger said:


> What interests me is the Unasked. Why TrainManG is so involved? Why does he have so many TiVos? Why is he bearing our torch? Let's know the motivations before we get involved.


Perhaps he wants all the old Tivo's to provide background route projections for use with train driving simulators 

Automan.


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## TrainManG (Apr 21, 2003)

Additional info I forgot - I was so tired.

They did say they have 'no plans at this time' to close the UK service. I suppose if they're not doing anything to it then it costs them very little to keep going.

My 'Deep Throat' as someone seems to have christened him is amused the way this thread keeps wandering, and he told me that the release of compatible HD kit in the UK is unlikely from TiVo. 'Watch for the new Humax kit' he said. I know very little about Humax, maybe someone can enlighten me.

Rather suprised at blindlemon's quote about 'brilliant news' etc. I thought he was a supporter of the UK system. Seems not!

Off out now, expecting a few more nuggets from my contact tonight.

Geoff.

(Definitely in favour of keeping it going!)


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## TrainManG (Apr 21, 2003)

*Just noticed this!*



ColinYounger said:


> What interests me is the Unasked. Why TrainManG is so involved? Why does he have so many TiVos? Why is he bearing our torch? Let's know the motivations before we get involved.


Getting a little confrontational aren't you?

I just thought I could help using my old TV contacts.

Don't think I'll bother anymore.

Byeee!!

GB.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TrainManG said:


> 'Watch for the new Humax kit' he said. I know very little about Humax, maybe someone can enlighten me.


The Freesat PVRs due out some time soon will be made by Humax. Should be a near replacement for Tivo for those who must have HD recording, can erect a satellite dish and don't need access to any pay Sky television channels.

See www.freesat.co.uk/index.php?page=products.Products&type_id=3

Of course I doubt it will provide for Suggestions or Advanced Wishlists and I expect it will only have a 7 day EPG rather than 21 days as Tivo has.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TrainManG said:


> Getting a little confrontational aren't you?
> 
> I just thought I could help using my old TV contacts.
> 
> Don't think I'll bother anymore.


The forum's Chief Boy Scout can be a little unpredictable.

In the main he is a happy and friendly sort of chappy but some things can sometimes set him off (usually things I say) and he then spares no mercy at all in wielding the knife in the most vicious of ways.

I certainly appreciate your efforts to find out what is going on from the horse's mouth as, I am sure, do many others in the forum. So please don't be put off from posting by Colin's comments.


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## mista_c (Aug 2, 2003)

ColinYounger said:


> I don't see this as a surprise - more that some here find it a surprise. What's in it for them to fix it? Also, why are we all diving on the speculation of a grandstandee?
> 
> TCM's poll showed around 20% pay monthly. All 31 of them. That doesn't even cover OzSat's salary. D)
> 
> ...


If they dont want to support it anymore, fine, let BSkyB know, let the community know, and we can all be on our merry way, to MCE, Sky+, whatever. If youve read the thread here then youll have seen the anecdotal evidence whereby BSkyB were providing a temporary solution by snoozing accounts, only for Tivo US to later say, er hang on, you shouldnt be doing this, and lo and behold, BSkyB are now unable to do this themselves. Kinda suggests that the technical issue is a red herring, but Ive never been one for conspiracy theories, so I wont draw any conclusions just yet.

Regardless of the train guys motives, I can only speak of my own experience. Over the years, I have purchased 4 Tivos in total, one for myself, and the other three for relatives. The most recent one was as a gift for my Aunt, and Im now having to waste a considerable amount of time travelling to her house to see if its activated yet, chasing up the issue with customer services etc.

Oh, and if this is a precursor to Tivo returning to the UK, most of us here would of course be glad, but I wonder how many existing tivo users there are in the UK who are happy with what theyve got and wouldnt want to upgrade? I cant see Tivo charging a monthly fee like they did before, so I doubt if the price of a new unit would be subsidised. My guess is wed probably be looking at a price of £200+. Many of us who post here would probably upgrade, but as much as they love their Tivos, I cant see any of my relatives doing so.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Contrary to what others think, I deliberately used the confrontational. Why? Because I think a certain forum member is stringing us along and expected the toys out of the pram approach if their position was challenged.


TrainManG said:


> Don't think I'll bother anymore.
> Byeee!!
> GB.


Whoops. Seems I was right.

Caveat Emptor.


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## TrainManG (Apr 21, 2003)

ColinYounger said:


> Contrary to what others think, I deliberately used the confrontational. Why? Because I think a certain forum member is stringing us along and expected the toys out of the pram approach if their position was challenged.Whoops. Seems I was right.
> 
> Caveat Emptor.


Hmmm. This from someone who wears a bag on his head?

I didn't regard your post as a challenge, just as remarks from a 'forum Chief Boy Scout' (see an earlier post) that indicate someone else might be expressing a point of view for a change.

No toys out of the pram here, but having spent some time reading other posts by you, I note you don't appreciate most forms of criticism. So, no criticism here, either.

Anyway, it's my money I'm spending on trips to the States, and on the phone calls - and - I seem to be getting some sensible answers from people who may have far more knowledge about the system than most of the people based in the UK!!

So,

Qui ago per mucro vadum pereo per mucro.

Geoff. (Still here.)

(Enough bickering, back to the topic!)


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

TrainManG said:


> Hmmm. This from someone who wears a bag on his head?


And you have a generic Santa. So what?

My opinion is that you were 'bigging' yourself up a little, with that "Want to know more? I'll tell you on Friday" business.

Still, I'm sure we're all grateful for the time you have put into this.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

TrainManG said:


> Rather suprised at blindlemon's quote about 'brilliant news' etc. I thought he was a supporter of the UK system. Seems not!


Um, not sure how you got that from what I wrote... 

Yes, I'm a supporter of the UK system, and to that end TiVo as a whole. The way I see it, the continued and increased success of TiVo in other territories is the best chance we have of getting a new TiVo in the UK. If TiVo is failing worldwide, what chance do you think there is for a new UK TiVo? On the other hand, if everything is going great and TiVo is being taken up all over the world, then eventually the UK will be back on the radar :up:

Just my $0.02


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## TrainManG (Apr 21, 2003)

cwaring said:


> And you have a generic Santa. So what?
> 
> My opinion is that you were 'bigging' yourself up a little, with that "Want to know more? I'll tell you on Friday" business.
> 
> Still, I'm sure we're all grateful for the time you have put into this.


Actually, I had to go up to Derby on Monday, for 3 days. Then, on Wednesday, my Partner broke her wrist at her father's and I had to go back up to Preston (about 2 hours after I had returned to Harlow) in order to drive her and her car back as she had appointments over the weekend. (Consultant Obstetrician.) I got back at 1955 on Friday.

If you read the original post, I was supposed to give the details on Wednesday and was delayed due to the above reasons.

My Partner apologises for breaking her wrist and causing the delay and giving you opportunity for doubt.

There are far to many regular posters in this forum 'Bigging Themselves Up' without me needing to!!!!!!

Geoff.

Definitely the end of the off-topic stuff!


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Pete77 said:


> The Freesat PVRs due out some time soon will be made by Humax. Should be a near replacement for Tivo for those who must have HD recording, can erect a satellite dish and don't need access to any pay Sky television channels.
> 
> See www.freesat.co.uk/index.php?page=products.Products&type_id=3
> 
> Of course I doubt it will provide for Suggestions or Advanced Wishlists and I expect it will only have a 7 day EPG rather than 21 days as Tivo has.


If the Humax Freesat PVR is the device in question at best it will be no better than the average Freeview+ box but with a slightly different choice of channels and HD.

The FreeSat EPG is poor and so far does not evidently even contain any series link data or the equivalent to the old PDC we had in the days of the VCR.

Program descriptions are also VERY POOR but does include program titles for all channels in the lineup unlike the Tivo EPG which for some tells you nothing...

Automan.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

TrainManG said:


> Actually, I had to go up to Derby on Monday, for 3 days.


Sorry. I must have missed that post.



TrainManG said:


> There are far to many regular posters in this forum 'Bigging Themselves Up' without me needing to!!!!!!


Erm... no. If we ignore my comment as I was wrong there's no-one here doing that.


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

So this saga comes to an end, and it's a damp squib as largely expected by many of us I'm sure. According to your grass who may work in the TiVo IT Department (or for someone else entirely - did you get a name, rank, serial number?) TiVo are having problems transferring/activating a few monthly UK accounts because of a misplaced hypen - wow, that's a bummer but hardly enlightening, not to mention a pretty lame excuse for any "switched on" tech company which TiVo clearly is. In fact so lame, it's almost hard to believe.

And the UK Service isn't due to come an end any time soon.

So, business as usual? 

Honestly, next time you have "breaking news" please don't waste our time in future!!!

PS. I hope your partner (small "p") is quickly on the mend.


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## Davyburns (Jan 7, 2004)

Milhouse said:


> According to your grass who may work in the TiVo IT Department


Please dont use the word "grass" for someone who is trying to help. 
IMHO, grass is a word used and coined by the criminal classes, in order to protect their illegal activities!

(a pet hate of mine)

Off topic, but I'm not the first in this thread.


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## davisa (Feb 19, 2002)

mista_c said:


> If they dont want to support it anymore, fine, let BSkyB know, let the community know, and we can all be on our merry way, to MCE, Sky+, whatever.


Unfortunately, 'whatever' just doesn't seem to exist. After all this time.

TiVo (the company) amazes me. Never have I heard of a company so set on clutching defeat from the claws of victory. (ok, perhaps Acorn managed it...)


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## TrainManG (Apr 21, 2003)

Davyburns said:


> Please dont use the word "grass" for someone who is trying to help.
> IMHO grass is a word used and coined by the criminal classes, in order to protect their illegal activities!
> 
> ( a pet hate of mine)
> ...


Hear hear!

PS. milhouse. Your spelling of partner may only warrant a small 'p'. Mine is worth a geat big *P* 

Geoff.


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## sporran (Aug 9, 2008)

well have had enough waiting and phoning c.s. for my Tivo to be re-activated, just purchased a Sony RDR-HXD870, connected to my Sky box and works a dream, upscales picture to 1080p,records amazingly, and is staggering compared to old technology with no subs per month, or faffing about with epg"s ,daily calls, waiting for america,etc.,and people here now bickering amongst themselves. Life is to short.

Cheerie Bye


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## terryeden (Nov 2, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> What would one expect in a company where the UK Tivo service is now apparently such a dirty word that they refused to even foot the bill to renew the domain name www.tivo.co.uk


All of the literature I have from TiVo - from the box to the manual - list the correct URL as http://uk.tivo.com/

You'll notice it's still active.

I know - from my job - that once a URL stops receiving X hits per month, it will be retired. No point wasting a few quid a month on something no one uses.


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## ghstone (Apr 12, 2003)

sporran said:


> well have had enough waiting and phoning c.s. for my Tivo to be re-activated, just purchased a Sony RDR-HXD870, connected to my Sky box and works a dream, upscales picture to 1080p,records amazingly, and is staggering compared to old technology with no subs per month, or faffing about with epg"s ,daily calls, waiting for america,etc.,and people here now bickering amongst themselves. Life is to short.
> 
> Cheerie Bye


sounds amazing, except... from the reviews I've just read it records from it's own built-in Freeview receiver, not SKY. Not much use in an area where we might just get Freeview in 2012 if we're lucky.

Graham


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## sporran (Aug 9, 2008)

ghstone said:


> sounds amazing, except... from the reviews I've just read it records from it's own built-in Freeview receiver, not SKY. Not much use in an area where we might just get Freeview in 2012 if we're lucky.
> 
> Graham


Hi Graham,

The Sony Does record from my sky box! and as per Tivo you can download the sky epg data to the Sony"s own EPG , and set up recordings and other stuff.
Its why I bought it, you don"t even need freeview as will take EPG from skys Eurosport.

Regards


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

Davyburns said:


> Please dont use the word "grass" for someone who is trying to help.
> IMHO, grass is a word used and coined by the criminal classes, in order to protect their illegal activities!
> 
> (a pet hate of mine)
> ...


He's passing on what is potentially confidential company information. Deep throat, Grass, they all describe someone who is betraying their employer by passing on information without authorisation. Sorry if you find it objectionable, but it is what it is.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Re: the US news - I guess its just a case of not willing to allow developers to spend a day or two fixing the UK part, especially if any fix it may potentially affect the larger userbase of US subs.



sporran said:


> [Sony RDR-HXD870] as per Tivo you can download the sky epg data to the Sony"s own EPG , and set up recordings and other stuff.
> Its why I bought it, you don"t even need freeview as will take EPG from skys Eurosport.


Thats very interesting info - so it will control a sky box (change channels) and grab its own EPG even without freeview reception? From teletext?

Must be the only other consumer box(*) to be able to use its own EPG to control a sky box...?

*MCE doesn't count as its not really a" consumer device".


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## TrainManG (Apr 21, 2003)

mikerr said:


> Re: the US news - I guess its just a case of not willing to allow developers to spend a day or two fixing the UK part, especially if any fix it may potentially affect the larger userbase of US subs.


Exactly the point I was trying to get across - amongst the off-topic vituperation.

BTW, I don't regard my contact as a 'grass' as Milhouse describes him. He told me nothing that could be regarded as confidential, only what is embarrassing to the company.

Geoff.


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

TrainManG said:


> BTW, I don't regard my contact as a 'grass' as Milhouse describes him. He told me nothing that could be regarded as confidential, only what is embarrassing to the company.
> 
> Geoff.


Did he start the conversation with "Pssst" and cover his mouth while talking to you, with his eyes constantly darting back and forth? 

And more importantly, was he authorised to talk to you? If the answer to this question is "no" then I stand by my use of the term "Grass".

I'm grateful he spoke to you, but he is breaking company policy and showing disloyalty to TiVo Inc. by passing on this information, which you yourself admit is embarrassing to TiVo.

Grass btw is often considered as slang for informer - I'm sorry if you incorrectly insist it has criminal connotations but on the whole it's just slang for someone who an informant, which itself is defined as "One who gives information against others". So when the hat fits... your TiVo Inc. employee is a grass/informer/stool pigeon/whistle blower/deep throat/etc., whether you like it or not.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Milhouse said:


> He's passing on what is potentially confidential company information. Deep throat, Grass, they all describe someone who is betraying their employer by passing on information without authorisation. Sorry if you find it objectionable, but it is what it is.


Surely only the most sycophantic of large company employed promotion hungry loyalists could possibly interpret things that way when Tivo has actually created the whole situation by not deploying the resources required to adequately maintain a service that many of its customers have already paid up front for and that Tivo are under a contractual obligation to continue to provide to all working Lifetime Subbed UK Tivo S1 machines.

I assume you believe that company obedience and toeing of the line should also prevent even the most dastardly and criminal of activities by large companies and governments from ever being exposed then?


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## speedyrite (May 18, 2002)

mikerr said:


> Thats very interesting info - so it will control a sky box (change channels) and grab its own EPG even without freeview reception? From teletext?
> 
> Must be the only other consumer box(*) to be able to use its own EPG to control a sky box...?
> 
> *MCE doesn't count as its not really a" consumer device".


I have an older Sony HDD/DVD Recorder - the RDR-HXD560. It's well over a year old, mybe coming up 2 years old by now (can't remember exactly).

Anyway, my RDR-HXD560 can be connected to a Sky box (or any satellite decoder) and control it for the purpose of recording from it. The Sky EPG is used to set programs to be viewed and this triggers the Sony to come on and record from the Sky feed. Not quite as sophisticated as the new models by the sound of it. Of course, there are no wishlists! And that will be the big loss if/when TiVo is ever finally gone from the UK.

Oh and one last thing - I'm shocked to see such bad tempered bickering on the UK forum. I mean, I know that "TiVo is more important than life and death" for some members, but is it REALLY more important than that? (With apologies to the late and great Bill Shankly).


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Philips used to do one years ago called the DVDR80 getting it's epg from itv analogue teletext (guideplus) HD & DVD Recorder.

Product could control various STB's including Sky & Sky+ boxes.

Guideplus however pretty poor so it is in the loft with all my other castout gadgets 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Philips-DVDR80-DVD-Recorder/dp/B0000A9Z00

Automan.


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

Pete77 said:


> Surely only the most sycophantic of large company employed promotion hungry loyalists could possibly interpret things that way


It's got nothing to do with sychophancy - it's simply stating the facts. He's passing on internal company knowledge without authorisation that could potentially harm the reputation of his employer.



Pete77 said:


> I assume you believe that company obedience and toeing of the line should also prevent even the most dastardly and criminal of activities by large companies and governments from ever being exposed then?


I'm actually not saying I have an issue with his behaviour, but I am calling him for what he is - a grass. You can make all the outlandish comparisons you like, but the fact remains this individual has passed on what is most likely confidential internal company information without authorisation and if I characterise him as a grass (slang: informer) that's because it's an accurate and factual description - if you don't like my description that's too bad, but that's who we are dealing with here. Wake up and smell the coffee. If he passes on more information in future, great, but unless he has authorisation he'll still be a grass.


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

speedyrite said:


> Oh and one last thing - I'm shocked to see such bad tempered bickering on the UK forum. I mean, I know that "TiVo is more important than life and death" for some members, but is it REALLY more important than that? (With apologies to the late and great Bill Shankly).


I'm not bad tempered - I actually made the grass comment because he is what he is, no real malice intended... it's sad to see others dressing up our informant as some sort of saint though! Perhaps they're prepared to ignore the ethics of his behaviour simply because they believe it somehow benefits them (debatable as there's nothing we can do) or it's allowed them to grandstand on this forum!


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

...so was anything of any importance actually revealed in this thread? I've lost track


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

blindlemon said:


> ...so was anything of any importance actually revealed in this thread?


Don't wish to be mean to the OP who I'm sure meant well but: No.


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## PaulWilkinsUK (Mar 20, 2006)

speedyrite said:


> Oh and one last thing - I'm shocked to see such bad tempered bickering on the UK forum. I mean, I know that "TiVo is more important than life and death" for some members, but is it REALLY more important than that? (With apologies to the late and great Bill Shankly).


I said "Oi Shankly, NO!"


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## mista_c (Aug 2, 2003)

blindlemon said:


> ...so was anything of any importance actually revealed in this thread? I've lost track


Actually, I have some news...all will be revealed tomorrow....


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## TrainManG (Apr 21, 2003)

Automan said:


> Philips used to do one years ago called the DVDR80 getting it's epg from itv analogue teletext (guideplus) HD & DVD Recorder.
> 
> Product could control various STB's including Sky & Sky+ boxes.
> 
> ...


I had one of those, but it had a psu failure about 3 weeks after the guarantee ran out - seemingly a common fault. (Doesn't it make you sick when that happens?)

I wasn't aware it could be controlled from an EPG via Teletext. (Do you mean the old PDC/VPS system?)

I know some of the Panasonic VHS recorders could, but I don't know if their new HDD/DVD recorders can.

Anyone any idea??

Geoff.


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## cleudo (Apr 7, 2002)

.. and how was guideplus injected? was it nationally via Teletext UK? I know it wasn't injected at station level (as pdc was)


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## mista_c (Aug 2, 2003)

mista_c said:


> Actually, I have some news...all will be revealed tomorrow....


Sorry everyone, I was assured yesterday by BSkyB that, according to Tivo US, the problem should now be fixed, and at the very least BSkyB would be able to send the snooze command again. This hasn't happened, so to suffice to say, I am pretty annoyed with both Tivo and BSkyB, who still seem to be blaming each other over this.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mista_c said:


> This hasn't happened, so to suffice to say, I am pretty annoyed with both Tivo and BSkyB, who still seem to be blaming each other over this.


Although for once the blame can clearly be laid squarely and fairly at Tivo Inc's door rather than that of the Sky Tivo customer services department.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

cleudo said:


> .. and how was guideplus injected? was it nationally via Teletext UK? I know it wasn't injected at station level (as pdc was)


Yes, once a night (sometime AM) it would tune to ITV1 and at that time Guideplus data was transmitted over the teletext lines.

Of course come mid 2012 it will not work anywhere in the UK 

I also made a mistake re the model, the DVDR80 has no hard drive.

I also got the next model HDRW720 also with Guideplus but also with an intergrated hard disk.

http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/dcbint/cpindex.pl?ctn=HDRW720/05&slg=ENG&scy=GB

Automan.


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## mista_c (Aug 2, 2003)

Pete77 said:


> Although for once the blame can clearly be laid squarely and fairly at Tivo Inc's door rather than that of the Sky Tivo customer services department.


I agree. Its just a farcical situation however, as BSkyB say it is out of their hands and is up to Tivo US to fix this issue, whilst Tivo US have told me this requires co-operation from BSkyB. Incredibly, I've also been told (by Tivo US) that the problem wasn't caused by them!


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Automan said:


> Yes, once a night (sometime AM) it would tune to ITV1 and at that time Guideplus data was transmitted over the teletext lines.
> 
> Of course come mid 2012 it will not work anywhere in the UK
> 
> ...


Philips still offer a product with similar features but with HDMI out and can record in 5.1 sound!

Product now at a sub £200.00 price so I suspect it is not very good 

http://www.empiredirect.co.uk/content/products/details/index~modelcode~PHI-DVDR5570H.htm

Automan.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Automan said:


> Philips still offer a product with similar features but with HDMI out and can record in 5.1 sound!
> 
> Product now at a sub £200.00 price so I suspect it is not very good
> 
> ...


Reduced by £150 from £329.99 though. Its main problem seems to be that it only has a maximum of 4 years useful life left, even in the South East of England. Less in the regions.......


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

I think it can also get its guideplus data via freeview.

Multiplex C (NGWA)
with Sky Three, Dave,
E4+1, Smile TV, Sky
News, Sky Sports News

Or Via Astra

Channel Eurosport UK:
ASTRA 2A: 11856 MHz / 8 27500 V 2/3

http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/dcbint/cpindex.pl?ctn=DVDR5570H/05&slg=ENG&scy=GB

But again who know's for how long before guideplus like Tivo UK stops updating the data...

And also no Freeview+ features 

Automan.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

The newest Panasonic models to use the GuidePlus service were released in March 2008.

So I can't imagine the service closing down any time soon.

See www.europe.guideplus.com/En/our_service/models.html


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## mista_c (Aug 2, 2003)

When I first contacted customer services about this problem, around a month ago now, they kept telling there was a problem with the 'BT link'. Later they told me that this had been investigated further and had found no fault with the signals they were sending, so it was completely Tivo US's fault. After contacting Tivo US, they told me it wasn't actually Tivo US's fault, and so after confronting Tivo UK on this, they confessed to me that this was true. Now I am back to where I started, and they have told me that they now again think the problem has been caused by BT.

This may be a silly question, but would it make any difference if the daily call was made from a networked Tivo? I can't remember how this works, but thought that this connected directly with Tivo's servers.


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

The issue with a network is that transparent proxies and firewalls can get in the way. It certainly used to be the case that some ntl: areas suffered with transparent proxies screwing up the connection. Nottingham, where I lived, was one such affected area.


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## mista_c (Aug 2, 2003)

So is connecting via a network worth a try or would this be a waste of time? It would obviously be a lot of hassle moving my cachecard into the other machine, installing drivers etc, so if anybody has already tried this please let me know.


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## Davyburns (Jan 7, 2004)

Automan said:


> With the low number of monthly subs the income must be quite low and I expect after nearly eight years the head honcho's and the boss of their finance department consider it to be flogging a dead horse.
> 
> It maybe their cost to tribune (or whoever provides the epg) is costing them more than they make out of the UK business.
> 
> ...


I really wish people (even with the best intentions) would not be so negative!
I have no doubt that the "suits" will be monitoring this forum, and remarks like this might lead them to believe that we are all ready to lie down and die!!


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## cleudo (Apr 7, 2002)

> I have no doubt that the "suites" will be monitoring this forum


Soft furnishings of the world unite!


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## 6022tivo (Oct 29, 2002)

Davyburns said:


> I really wish people (even with the best intentions) would not be so negative!
> I have no doubt that the "suits" will be monitoring this forum, and remarks like this might lead them to believe that we are all ready to lie down and die!!


I paid for my lifetime subs with my credit card, so if tivo pulls the plug, I will claim the lifetime back from them... :up:


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## Davyburns (Jan 7, 2004)

6022tivo said:


> I paid for my lifetime subs with my credit card, so if tivo pulls the plug, I will claim the lifetime back from them... :up:


Not everyone had that foresight, although, this post probably has more than a few people scrambling through old statements


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## mista_c (Aug 2, 2003)

mista_c said:


> So is connecting via a network worth a try or would this be a waste of time? It would obviously be a lot of hassle moving my cachecard into the other machine, installing drivers etc, so if anybody has already tried this please let me know.


I've today tried this but doesn't seem to work. The tivo successfully made a call over the internet, but the account remains closed.

Before attempting this, I called up customer services to make sure that Tivo UK didn't need to repeat the activation process again, wait 48 hours etc, but they told me there was no need. Whether this info was correct, I have no idea, as every time I speak with them they give me contradictory information.


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