# Heroes 10/8/2007 (S02E03) "Kindred"



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

So when does Denny Crane show up? 

It was nice seeing Nichelle Nichols again. 

And boy I was just waiting for someone to tell Claire to shut up. Cool way to do it, West.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

So why the heck didn't Peter just take the box?


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Wow, Nichelle Nichols is old.

If they want her appearance to be a "surprise" then they shouldn't list it in the opening credits.

Did Peter's tattoo actually change, or was it just the show pointing out to us that the symbol is buried in it.

Does the Company know that Mohinder lives with Parkman and Molly? If so, don't they care? If not, their intelligence stinks.

I still don't care about the Wondertwins. Too many new people.

The sword has "Open Ando" written on it, and no one else opened it in 400 years to see the messages inside? It reminds me of another Bill and Ted's when they talk about "when this is all over, remember to go back and put this here." It's silly.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

The twins are very annoying.

YES I GET IT, if they seperate she becomes toxic, and her brother can fix it if he gets there fast enough.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

vertigo235 said:


> The twins are very annoying.
> 
> YES I GET IT, if they seperate she becomes toxic, and her brother can fix it if he gets there fast enough.


But last episode, it just happened when he was too far away, and she couldn't control it.

In this one, she was fine for quite a while when he was far away, and it was only till they made her angry, or to be more accurate, afraid (at her prodding), like the Hulk, does it happen.


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## jtown0620 (Jun 17, 2004)

How come the boy wonder twin always has the lame power?! On the super friends the boy could only turn himself into a bucket of ice or a cup of water. Like wise, the girl on Heroes gets the cool black stuff and gets to kill everyone while her brother has to clean up the mess!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Turtleboy said:


> Did Peter's tattoo actually change, or was it just the show pointing out to us that the symbol is buried in it.


It didn't change, it just faded in such a way that we could see the symbol.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

I wish that Sylar had been left out for a good while longer. I'd rather see a new bad guy and really didn't need or want to think about him instead.


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## TreborPugly (May 2, 2002)

Hah. Sylar is just a garden variety serial killer now. (Maybe the powers he tries to steal will go to some new big bad guy)

I also think Peter's tattoo healed away, revealing the symbol in the middle before completely healing. (Although why he wouldn't have healed constantly as she tried to tattoo him, who knows!)


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## TreborPugly (May 2, 2002)

Oh, and it's awesome to actually watch the show on the night it airs and then talk about it before there are 100 posts!


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## WinBear (Aug 24, 2000)

Very interesting twist with Sylar. I'm wondering why they brought back Candace just for this one-shot appearance with another actress. I'm hoping everything that happened there was part of her illusion power.

Ooh, the plot thickens. West has been tagged by HRG before everything came to a head. I guess Claire can't bring him home to meet dad.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Cool.

Uhura is in the show too. 


I'm getting back to the point where I am not sure if I can trust HRG. 

Candice didn't die.. But she is dead now. Oh well. Her previous look was better anyway. Who/what is Nikki going to give up to get "cured"? Micha??


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

Sylar killing the girl and not getting her power out of it was ironic. Though her head wasn't cracked wide open like the others either.... or maybe they didn't show that.

The wonder twins are bothering me.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

I can't believe Candace was stupid enough to leave herself vulnerable to Sylar like that; it's not like she couldn't have just made him think she was that close to him.

It would have been funny if, instead of playing that video game, Ando was caught by his boss surfing TCF. 

And Ando should know better than to touch the blade on an antique sword with his bare fingers.


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## TreborPugly (May 2, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> Who/what is Nikki going to give up to get "cured"? Micha??


I figured that she would be asked to do something for them first, before getting "cured," just like always. She's always taking one more job for some "noble" reason.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Oh yeah, and more shirtless Peter was nice.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

After Sylar couldn't use her power I wondered briefly if Candice hadn't made him imagine the whole thing, and she's not really dead. It does seem extraordinarily stupid of her to handle him so casually.

Peter's plot is annoying, and not just because of the truly horrible Irish accents.

I was hoping Hiro was coming back and I was pleased to think they were ending that plotline, but then they didn't... *sigh*.


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> The sword has "Open Ando" written on it, and no one else opened it in 400 years to see the messages inside? It reminds me of another Bill and Ted's when they talk about "when this is all over, remember to go back and put this here." It's silly.


Yah we were wondering that as well.. I love how NOBODY noticed the end of the sword opens with a note in it since 1640 

But we still disbelief everything while watching this show, and love it


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## avery (May 29, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It didn't change, it just faded in such a way that we could see the symbol.


And then didn't it fade away completely - symbol included?

Or is that just a visual drawback of not having HD?!


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

avery said:


> And then didn't it fade away completely - symbol included?
> 
> Or is that just a visual drawback of not having HD?!


First, most of the tattoo faded, leaving behind a very warped version of The Symbol.

Then the reamining ink straightened out and formed The Symbol.

Then, a few seconds later, the ink faded completely.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

scottjf8 said:


> Yah we were wondering that as well.. I love how NOBODY noticed the end of the sword opens with a note in it since 1640


Maybe it's like in Back to the Future, when the picture of Marty and his siblings fade... maybe this sword only added the text and the messages once Hiro went back in time and "redid" events.

Time travel logic can be changed to fit the stories anyway...


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

I got the impression Sylar may have her power. But, he forgot to ask her how it works. It's possible the power is to let others see and experience what you make them while you still continue to experience reality.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Sadara said:


> Sylar killing the girl and not getting her power out of it was ironic. Though her head wasn't cracked wide open like the others either.... or maybe they didn't show that.
> 
> The wonder twins are bothering me.


So he ate her brains for nothing...


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Mmm...Brains.


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

busyba said:


> I can't believe Candace was stupid enough to leave herself vulnerable to Sylar like that; it's not like she couldn't have just made him think she was that close to him.


We don't know that that's not exactly what happened. It would explain why Sylar seemingly didn't get her powers.

It's funny that when we first saw Sylar and Candice in "Hawaii", all I could think of was how fake the shot looked.


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

getbak said:


> We don't know that that's not exactly what happened. It would explain why Sylar seemingly didn't get her powers.
> 
> It's funny that when we first saw Sylar and Candice in "Hawaii", all I could think of was how fake the shot looked.


I thought it was a Corona commercial.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Looked like when Jodie Foster saw her father in _Contact_.


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

hefe said:


> Looked like when Jodie Foster saw her father in _Contact_.


  :up:


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> Wow, Nichelle Nichols is old.
> 
> If they want her appearance to be a "surprise" then they shouldn't list it in the opening credits.


I don't think they have a choice about the credits, that's a union thing.

And you'd be old too, if you were born in 1932 as she was.


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## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

I liked that they showed Candace in her true form (which was alluded to in season one in her conversation with Micah and confirmed in the graphic novels). That alone leads me to believe that she is actually dead.

I liked the old Candace better too.

I thought West was going to mention the Haitian, not HRG. That whole thing begs the question, why wasn't the Haitian able to remove those memories?


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## brnscofrnld (Mar 30, 2005)

danplaysbass said:


> I
> 
> I thought West was going to mention the Haitian, not HRG. That whole thing begs the question, why wasn't the Haitian able to remove those memories?


I was thinking that as well. But then again, if he removed his memories we would not have this little story line developing now.

And who didn't think that some kind of relationship wasn't going to happen between West and Clair?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

danplaysbass said:


> I liked the old Candace better too.


Then don't miss Reaper!


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Still not feeling the Heroes love this season. 

West is annoying. He needs to get hit by a bus. Not too smart, flying away with Claire in the middle of the afternoon. It's not like they were in the middle of nowhere.

Peter discovers he has all these powers but decides to take up with a two bit gang. Right.

Hiro's plotline feels like it was "borrowed" from Shakespeare.

How the heck did Mohinder and Parkman end up adopting that little girl? She had no other relatives? Two unrelated, single guys can adopt an unrelated, little girl without 11 zillion miles of red tape?


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Did Mohinder & Parkman pose as a gay couple to get Molly's custody? Because I don't see how a divorced cop, who was recently shot up all to hell, and a a citizen of India, who's out of the country most of the time, can get custody of a little girl.

+1 on the BTTF analogy.

No way Candace could be that stupid. No way the writers/producers would bother bringing back last season's character, using a different actress, for a throwaway part that means absolutely nothing except another notch on Sylar's laser-finger. He did not get her powers, so either it wasn't her or none of it happened.

What's with all the ex-trek actors? First Sulu, now Uhura and Malcolm (from Enterprise).


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Then don't miss Reaper!


I knew I knew her from somewhere! Thanks!


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> Still not feeling the Heroes love this season.
> 
> West is annoying. He needs to get hit by a bus. Not too smart, flying away with Claire in the middle of the afternoon. It's not like they were in the middle of nowhere.


And there was NO air traffic over southern California?


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

dswallow said:


> Oh yeah, and more shirtless Peter was nice.


Hear hear! 

As far as the rest of the episode... well, it just made me realize why I've been so nonplussed about Heroes Season 2. It just feels like the show is just biding its time while it prepares the juicy/important stuff for us.

In the first season, I felt like every episode had something juicy in it. It teased out a lot of things, but also gave regular answers to things as well. And this season... well, I feel like we're just waiting.

I'm waiting for the Hiro storyline to end. Sorry, but even if this is a part of Hiro's "journey" into learning how to become an honorable hero, it just feels like it's dragging along. Hiro was one of my favorite characters in the first season, and now I cringe whenever I see him.

I'm waiting to find out why Nathan isn't in his elected office. Sure, he think he lost Peter, but the whole bearded hermit in emotional turmoil bit would have gotten old for him after a while. Not to mention, his family is now completely missing.

I'm waiting to find out just what the heck happened following the battle at Kirby Plaza. There's obviously so much that happened there, because almost every single Hero has gone into hiding. But why?

It just feels like they're filling screen time right now. The pacing is so slow that it's really affecting my enjoyment.


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## brnscofrnld (Mar 30, 2005)

scottykempf said:


> And there was NO air traffic over southern California?


Don't think so hard about it. He flew off, with clair in his arms to later make out with her. I would fly off in the middle of the day if it ment the chance to make out with a hot cheerleader. Planes or no planes...


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## waldingrl (Jan 19, 2005)

I liked Peter's evil look when he almost killed the guy. He kinda had that same twisted look on his face that Sylar gets/got. That's hot.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Skittles said:


> As far as the rest of the episode... well, it just made me realize why I've been so nonplussed about Heroes Season 2. It just feels like the show is just biding its time while it prepares the juicy/important stuff for us.
> 
> In the first season, I felt like every episode had something juicy in it. It teased out a lot of things, but also gave regular answers to things as well. And this season... well, I feel like we're just waiting.


Bingo.


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## waldingrl (Jan 19, 2005)

Last night's episode was the first of the season that I was kinda happy with. The first two went way too slow, but last night was a little more interesting. Hopefully they'll get better each time. I'm not giving up yet.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Why would parkman and mohinder have to adopt her legally?

Could takezo kensei be the ancestor of ALL the heroes?

So Nichelle is possibly playing DL's mother, right? I think it's safe to assume since she'd old that she is one of the remaining unknown 5 (of the 9 formerly still alive) and/or the killer 6th.


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## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

Sadara said:


> The wonder twins are bothering me.


As soon as I turned to my friends and said, "I hate them as much as I did Nikki last year.", next scene is freaking Nikki.

There are too many stories going on right now and bouncing around like that really just ends the episode with nothing really happening. By the end the only big thing was the picture at the end.

And my god the West/Clair flying scene was cheesy and bad special effects, I was waiting for "A Whole New World" to start playing.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> So Nichelle is possibly playing DL's mother, right? I think it's safe to assume since she'd old that she is one of the remaining unknown 5 (of the 9 formerly still alive) and/or the killer 6th.


We've already seen DL's mother (she threatened to take Micah from Niki last season). So, aunt?


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## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

TAsunder said:


> So Nichelle is possibly playing DL's mother, right? I think it's safe to assume since she'd old that she is one of the remaining unknown 5 (of the 9 formerly still alive) and/or the killer 6th.


No, we've already seen DL's mother (Paulette). Any more info about her relationship to Micah, etc. may be considered a spoiler, so get thee to heroeswiki if you care to know.

Smeeked because I went to look up a name


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Too many characters.

Just like when Lost added the Tailies.


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## yaddayaddayadda (Apr 8, 2003)

Getting very bored with this season. It's been the same show three weeks running.

Peter has amnesia and can't figure out his powers and is no closer to discovering who he is.

Niki and Paulo are annoying, don't want to be separated, she kills people and he brings them back.

Claire is filled with angst about her new life and West is creepy.

Parkman is no closer to finding out who the big-bad is. Molly sleeps a lot.

Hiro is attempting to get Kensei to act heroic but only gets so far.

The show is just spinning its wheels.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

cheesesteak said:


> How the heck did Mohinder and Parkman end up adopting that little girl? She had no other relatives? Two unrelated, single guys can adopt an unrelated, little girl without 11 zillion miles of red tape?


I really don't think they have legal custody. And I also wouldn't be surprised if Matt's not divorced either. I think given the fact that Noah was able to fake a whole new life with his family that he could've probably did the same thing with Matt and Molly so he could keep her safe.

As soon as I saw Peter getting the tattoo I wondered to myself if it was even possible for him to be tattooed. Guess not.

I also think that Sylar is still living in a false reality. It may not be by Candice though...I wouldn't be surprised to find that the company is holding Sylar in a Matrix type world. Maybe they're trying to learn how he's able to gather all his powers.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Why would they care the exact mechanism of sylar's power? They only need to know he kills them, takes their brain, and then has their power.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Where do I know the one Irish gang member from. Not the one from Star Trek, but the bigger one, the "leader"... the one who had Peter's "box" over the first last week.

I know I've seen him somewhere else and can't place him. I looked online today but can't find his name.


Oh, and vote #3 for more shirtless Peter!


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

TAsunder said:


> Why would they care the exact mechanism of sylar's power? They only need to know he kills them, takes their brain, and then has their power.


To duplicate it. I think the company could probably benifit greatly if they could learn how to consume powers as well.


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

Skittles said:


> Hear hear!
> 
> As far as the rest of the episode... well, it just made me realize why I've been so nonplussed about Heroes Season 2. It just feels like the show is just biding its time while it prepares the juicy/important stuff for us.
> 
> ...


Well they have to do something until November don't they? :d


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

waldingrl said:


> I liked Peter's evil look when he almost killed the guy. He kinda had that same twisted look on his face that Sylar gets/got. That's hot.


/makes mental note.


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## jpwoof (May 19, 2004)

Was it necessay to bring in new Candice? This new Candice couldn't act! :\ I'm glad they killed her off.

West is probably referring to the guy in the Company, not Claire's dad.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:


> To duplicate it. I think the company could probably benifit greatly if they could learn how to consume powers as well.


He's got a power that lets him do it.


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## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

jpwoof said:


> West is probably referring to the guy in the Company, not Claire's dad.


Huh? HRG == (former) Company man == Claire's "dad" (not biological, but the one who works at the copy center)


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

TAsunder said:


> He's got a power that lets him do it.


That's not what the company thinks. They probably have Mohinder's dad's notes on him that state that Syler didn't have a power until he started stealing them. So if they think they can duplicate it...why wouldn't they try.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

cwoody222 said:


> Where do I know the one Irish gang member from. Not the one from Star Trek, but the bigger one, the "leader"... the one who had Peter's "box" over the first last week.
> 
> I know I've seen him somewhere else and can't place him. I looked online today but can't find his name.


Hmm... it's this guy. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0564697/ But I can't say I recognize any of his credits. Oh well.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:


> That's not what the company thinks. They probably have Mohinder's dad's notes on him that state that Syler didn't have a power until he started stealing them. So if they think they can duplicate it...why wouldn't they try.


I am fairly certain that is incorrect. Mohinder and HRG both had ways of containing him and inhibiting his powers. They'd have no more reason to believe they could duplicate it than they would think they could duplicate peter's abilities.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

TAsunder said:


> I am fairly certain that is incorrect. Mohinder and HRG both had ways of containing him and inhibiting his powers. They'd have no more reason to believe they could duplicate it than they would think they could duplicate peter's abilities.


But the whole point of the company is to study these people with abililties. So why is it so hard for you to believe that's what they're doing? They were doing it before...and now it seems obvious that they're picking up where they left off. Remember when the company had him before and they were running all their test. They couldn't find anything that would lead them to believe he had any power other than (telekenisis?) The reason they were keeping him alive before was so they could study him. I'm just suggesting that their line of thought is: If he can learn to take on new powers...why can't they?


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## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

cwoody222 said:


> Hmm... it's this guy. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0564697/ But I can't say I recognize any of his credits. Oh well.


I thought I recognized him from Monk - thanks for the link - he was the bad guy in _Mr. Monk and the Three Pies_.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Why was Claire mad at her dad at the end?

She already knew that he _used_ to work for the Company and do bad things for them. Why is she still mad?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> Why was Claire mad at her dad at the end?
> 
> She already knew that he _used_ to work for the Company and do bad things for them. Why is she still mad?


I didn't see it as her being mad, more confused and unsure about how to proceed with things regarding West and her dad, and also sad and maybe angry because it reminded her of what her dad used to do and the secrets he kept.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Holt McCallany?
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0564697/


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

dimented said:


> /makes mental note.


+1 :up:


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

If you heard a loud scream yesterday evening, that was me when Hiro decided to stay in the past. Arrggghhhh!!!!!


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

allan said:


> If you heard a loud scream yesterday evening, that was me when Hiro decided to stay in the past. Arrggghhhh!!!!!


He didn't "decide" to stay in the past; he tried to move to the "present" but couldn't.


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## Thom (Jun 5, 2000)

allan said:


> If you heard a loud scream yesterday evening, that was me when Hiro decided to stay in the past. Arrggghhhh!!!!!


I don't think Hiro decided to stay in the past. I think he tried to leave and was unable to leave. So he came to the conclusion that he must have more to do in the past.

Hiro never attempted to go to feudal Japan in the first place. This indicates that Hiro is being guided/manipulated by some unknown power or person.


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## hapdrastic (Mar 31, 2006)

Thom said:


> I don't think Hiro decided to stay in the past. I think he tried to leave and was unable to leave. So he came to the conclusion that he must have more to do in the past.
> 
> Hiro never attempted to go to feudal Japan in the first place. This indicates that Hiro is being guided/manipulated by some unknown power or person.


And hoping each time that his next leap...will be the leap home.

Oh boy.


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## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

I'm not sure how to interpret that now. I originally saw "I can't leave" as meaning he can't bear to leave Yaeko because he's falling in love with her. But unable to use his power to leave would make sense, too. I wish I hadn't deleted it now.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

ping said:


> I'm not sure how to interpret that now. I originally saw "I can't leave" as meaning he can't bear to leave Yaeko because he's falling in love with her. But unable to use his power to leave would make sense, too. I wish I hadn't deleted it now.


He first said something like "time to go back to Ando" then did his eye-squeeze/concentration thing then said something like "I can't leave."


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## LlamaLarry (Apr 30, 2003)

MickeS said:


> I didn't see it as her being mad, more confused and unsure about how to proceed with things regarding West and her dad, and also sad and maybe angry because it reminded her of what her dad used to do and the secrets he kept.


I dunno, I got the angry vibe, I guess the Daddy's Girl wore off when West kissed her. I did enjoy seeing the Rogue, but not clear what it means.


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## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

dswallow said:


> He first said something like "time to go back to Ando" then did his eye-squeeze/concentration thing then said something like "I can't leave."


Sure, but that could just as easily mean he was about to teleport and then decided he couldn't leave Yaeko.


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## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

MickeS said:


> I didn't see it as her being mad, more confused and unsure about how to proceed with things regarding West and her dad, and also sad and maybe angry because it reminded her of what her dad used to do and the secrets he kept.


I'd say making out with your new boyfriend over your father's corpse could be interpreted as having some anger.

EDIT: I can't spell for $%&!


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

It will be interesting to see if Sylar gains Candice's power when he is finished healing. She told him that he'd have all his powers back when his healing was complete, so it's not surprising he couldn't use hers now. But what we don't know is if he can acquire powers during the time when his don't work.

I took the Hiro thing as him choosing not to come back yet because he couldn't bear to leave Yaeko yet. Perhaps he was unable to jump, but that's not the way I took it.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

hapdrastic said:


> And hoping each time that his next leap...will be the leap home.
> 
> Oh boy.


LOL.

I, too, thought he DECIDED to stay. Usually when he makes that constipated face and he's unable to teleport, he tries it againa few more times. I took it to mean that he was going too, but his heart was telling him to stay.


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## LlamaLarry (Apr 30, 2003)

ping said:


> Sure, but that could just as easily mean he was about to teleport and then decided he couldn't leave Yaeko.


Yeah, 'cause there is nothing more honorable than poaching the chick off of your lifelong hero.

Not to mention that Hiro should be pretty worried about ending up his own great-great-yadda-yadda-yadda grandpa; he is already Luke to Kensei's Han.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I thought it was a combination. He tried to go back, but his heart wasn't really in it because he wanted to stay, so he didn't succeed.


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## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

LlamaLarry said:


> Yeah, 'cause there is nothing more honorable than poaching the chick off of your lifelong hero.
> 
> Not to mention that Hiro should be pretty worried about ending up his own great-great-yadda-yadda-yadda grandpa; he is already Luke to Kensei's Han.


You say that as if love is a choice.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:


> But the whole point of the company is to study these people with abililties. So why is it so hard for you to believe that's what they're doing? They were doing it before...and now it seems obvious that they're picking up where they left off. Remember when the company had him before and they were running all their test. They couldn't find anything that would lead them to believe he had any power other than (telekenisis?) The reason they were keeping him alive before was so they could study him. I'm just suggesting that their line of thought is: If he can learn to take on new powers...why can't they?


It's plausible that they are trying to duplicate his powers, but it is really unrealistic to think that they don't realize he has a special power that allows him to learn other powers given that peter has a similar power and claude indicated that he knew of someone else with a similar power as well.


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## Shawn95GT (Oct 7, 2005)

cwoody222 said:


> Hmm... it's this guy. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0564697/ But I can't say I recognize any of his credits. Oh well.


I recognize him from Fight Club.

"In death, the members of Project Mayham have a name. His Name was Robert Palmer"

Something like that .


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## cruton (Nov 6, 2002)

If you're not aware, Greg Beeman, one of Heroes' producers/directors, has a blog (http://gregbeeman.blogspot.com/ ) and he does a write up after each episode. He generally talks about the making of the episode and why they chose to do things a certain way and how their decisions are influenced by things out of their control.

I commonly see some of the the comments/complaints on this board explained in his post. For instance, this week he talks about why they hired another actress to play Candace.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

So, do we think Uhura has a power?


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I thought it was a combination. He tried to go back, but his heart wasn't really in it because he wanted to stay, so he didn't succeed.


That makes sense. His control of his powers seems tied to his emotional state.


----------



## LlamaLarry (Apr 30, 2003)

ping said:


> You say that as if love is a choice.


Love can make you *feel* powerless, but it should not *make* you powerless.

You always have a choice to do the right thing and the right thing here is to not risk the timeline. Big Hiro knows that, even if Little Hiro doesn't.

BTW, what's with Hiro talking about his friends and family waiting for him? Surely he knows he can just go back to the instant after he left. I guess it's easier to have his time in JP match up with his Present Day time away to avoid the "Meanwhile, in feudal Japan, while Hiro was here, although no time transpired for any of the other characters..." flashing multiple times an episode.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

What happened to Claire's stolen car? It's just gone? No search? No police report? No repercussions?

I hope Peter doesn't remain with the Knothead Gang for long.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

cheesesteak said:


> What happened to Claire's stolen car? It's just gone? No search? No police report? No repercussions?
> 
> I hope Peter doesn't remain with the Knothead Gang for long.


what color was it?

They American in the Mexican jail has a car that was the exact same model as the one Claire got. Just a coincidental product placement? Or something else?


----------



## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

Aniketos said:


> And my god the West/Clair flying scene was cheesy and bad special effects, I was waiting for "A Whole New World" to start playing.


Not sure if that is the "love" theme from the Superman movies or not, but all I could hear in my head was "Can you read my mind..."

As to the twins, they are boring and I'm sick of reading the subtitles! Besides the fact the same scene is acted over and over again with them. Ugh! Kill them off NOW!!!

And Peter choosing to stay with a band of Irish thieves and get the "family" tatoo is just SO implausible...

Cheryl


----------



## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

cheesesteak said:


> What happened to Claire's stolen car? It's just gone? No search? No police report? No repercussions?
> 
> I hope Peter doesn't remain with the Knothead Gang for long.


It will turn up in Mexico and the twins will use it to drive across the border. We will learn that the car has a special power (invisibility) that will enable them to cross unseen by the border patrols.


----------



## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

The shot was brief, but I think the car in Mexico was a Nissan Murano, while Claire's car was a Rogue. Both amazingly ugly vehicles IMHO.


----------



## LlamaLarry (Apr 30, 2003)

I thought the Mexico car was a Rogue, but it had a Conquistadors bumper sticker on it to indicate that it was Claire's car (Costa Verde High School Conquistadors).


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

ElJay said:


> The shot was brief, but I think the car in Mexico was a Nissan Murano, while Claire's car was a Rogue. Both amazingly ugly vehicles IMHO.


No, it was definitely a Rogue and it was definitely Claire's car. It even focused on the bumper sticker, which said "Go Conquistadors" which I'm positive will turn out to be the mascot for Claire's school, although it's odd that she would put that sticker on there when she has no emotional ties to the school and only had the car for a couple of days.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> No, it was definitely a Rogue and it was definitely Claire's car. It even focused on the bumper sticker, which said "Go Conquistadors" which I'm positive will turn out to be the mascot for Claire's school, although it's odd that she would put that sticker on there when she has no emotional ties to the school and only had the car for a couple of days.


Or HRG put it on there so they'd blend in!


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> No, it was definitely a Rogue and it was definitely Claire's car. It even focused on the bumper sticker, which said "Go Conquistadors" which I'm positive will turn out to be the mascot for Claire's school, although it's odd that she would put that sticker on there when she has no emotional ties to the school and only had the car for a couple of days.


I wondered why they did that. Didn't even think of it. In fact, I had totally forgotten about Claire's car until cheesesteak asked about it. Wasn't until then I guessed it might have been the car we saw in Mexico. And even then, I had forgotten about the bumper stick and instead just focused on it being a Nissan.

Since the models we saw last night isn't the same as Claire's, maybe it's West's? Maybe the guy in jail is his brother?


----------



## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

cwoody222 said:


> Where do I know the one Irish gang member from. Not the one from Star Trek, but the bigger one, the "leader"... the one who had Peter's "box" over the first last week.
> 
> I know I've seen him somewhere else and can't place him. I looked online today but can't find his name.


He played Detective John Hagen in CSI Miami.

Just a detective, then a possible love interest for Callie (Emily Proctor),
then he went nutso after killing a suspect (or did he get shot himself?), vanished for half a season or more, then came back and


Spoiler



snuck up behind Callie at a crime scene, held a gun to her head, cocked it, then ran, she didn't know who did it, tested a bunch of revolvers for the "distinctive cocking sound", found out it was him and he ended up shooting himself later out of guilt (or did she shoot him?)


Don't you just hate spoilers that might not be spoilers due to memory lapse of the poster?

phox


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> It's plausible that they are trying to duplicate his powers, but it is really unrealistic to think that they don't realize he has a special power that allows him to learn other powers given that peter has a similar power and claude indicated that he knew of someone else with a similar power as well.


They definitely established in the first season that his "power" is different than the others...it doesn't show up on Mohinder's tests (although he was on Chandra's list).


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> If they want her appearance to be a "surprise" then they shouldn't list it in the opening credits.


I guess it's good that I don't know anyone by anything but their character name.


----------



## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

uncdrew said:


> I guess it's good that I don't know anyone by anything but their character name.


I've known for weeks that she was joining the cast (posted it in spoiler tags in another thread), but I missed her name in the credits and was genuinely surprised when she opened the door. The way I reacted, my wife thought it was a character we already knew.


----------



## LlamaLarry (Apr 30, 2003)

I spotted her name in the credits, mentioned it to my family (no response), mentioned the character name she famously played (no response), mentioned the character name plus the series she was on (still nothing). My family is a bunch of freakshows.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

LlamaLarry said:


> I spotted her name in the credits, mentioned it to my family (no response), mentioned the character name she famously played (no response), mentioned the character name plus the series she was on (still nothing). My family is a bunch of freakshows.


and a bunch of non-geeks... 

I missed her name in the opening credit roll. I usually don't pay much attention to it, anyway. I was plesantly surprised to see her at the door.


----------



## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

hapdrastic said:


> And hoping each time that his next leap...will be the leap home.
> 
> Oh boy.


LOL!


----------



## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

busyba said:


> It would have been funny if, instead of playing that video game, Ando was caught by his boss surfing TCF.


If they wanted to shout out to TCF, it would have been done thusly:










(And I can't believe nobody has mentioned that yet).


----------



## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

JETarpon said:


> If they wanted to shout out to TCF, it would have been done thusly:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


FWIW, Heroes itself already has a punch meme (one that I believe Hiro was referring to):

http://heroeswiki.com/One_punch_knockout


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

bdowell said:


> I wish that Sylar had been left out for a good while longer. I'd rather see a new bad guy and really didn't need or want to think about him instead.


This is my complaint too. I want to see a resolution to him. I don't want to go through another whole season with him looming over everything. They (the producers/writers) were surprised over the success of the show, and now they're afraid to change anything. That's why almost the entire original cast is back.

Oh, and I like the fact the kid actually _enjoys_ flying! And he does it much nicer than Nate ever did.


----------



## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

bobcarn said:


> This is my complaint too. I want to see a resolution to him. I don't want to go through another whole season with him looming over everything. They (the producers/writers) were surprised over the success of the show, and now they're afraid to change anything. That's why almost the entire original cast is back.
> 
> Oh, and I like the fact the kid actually _enjoys_ flying! And he does it much nicer than Nate ever did.


Could be a smeek...

Which begs the question- since he has the flying power and Claire is her father, did half brother/sister just share a kiss?


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

bobcarn said:


> Oh, and I like the fact the kid actually _enjoys_ flying! And he does it much nicer than Nate ever did.


True, but he's still annoying enough that I want to see him run over by a plane (another poster said "bus", but a plane would be more fitting.  )


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

GDG76 said:


> Could be a smeek...
> 
> Which begs the question- since he has the flying power and Claire is her father, did half brother/sister just share a kiss?


I have my suspicions.


----------



## laststarfighter (Feb 27, 2006)

cheesesteak said:


> How the heck did Mohinder and Parkman end up adopting that little girl? She had no other relatives? Two unrelated, single guys can adopt an unrelated, little girl without 11 zillion miles of red tape?


You obviously never saw the sitcom "My Two Dads"


----------



## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

GDG76 said:


> Could be a smeek...
> 
> Which begs the question- since he has the flying power and Claire is her father, did half brother/sister just share a kiss?


Claire is her father? How does that work?

And who said that flying guy is related in ANY way to Nathan? Just because he has the same power? So Kensei MUST be related to Claire? Micah has a different power than his father and mother.


----------



## BrandonRe (Jul 15, 2006)

jsmeeker said:


> Since the models we saw last night isn't the same as Claire's, maybe it's West's? Maybe the guy in jail is his brother?


It was the same model.


----------



## BrandonRe (Jul 15, 2006)

Aniketos said:


> I'd say making out with your new boyfriend over your father's corpse could be interrupted as having some anger.


I have no idea what this means...


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

scottykempf said:


> Claire is her father? How does that work?
> 
> And who said that flying guy is related in ANY way to Nathan? Just because he has the same power? So Kensei MUST be related to Claire? Micah has a different power than his father and mother.


I've heard such speculation about Kensei & Claire. But it's certainly true that some of the people who ARE related have different powers (the Petrelli brothers being another example).


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

LlamaLarry said:


> I thought the Mexico car was a Rogue, but it had a Conquistadors bumper sticker on it to indicate that it was Claire's car (Costa Verde High School Conquistadors).


I'm surprised there's even any discussion about this. Could they have made it any clearer without stopping the show and have someone walk into screen and point this out?


----------



## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

MickeS said:


> I'm surprised there's even any discussion about this. Could they have made it any clearer without stopping the show and have someone walk into screen and point this out?


Well, they could have at least shown the *whole* license plate when Claire still had the car. As it is, it could well be another blue Nissan Rogue with a California license plate that starts with "2" and has a bumper sticker from her high school on it


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

BrandonRe said:


> I have no idea what this means...


Change "interrupted" to "interpreted" to make grammatical sense.

It refers to Isaac's painting -- the last of eight. It shows HRG with what looks like a bullet hole through his left lens, blood on his face, and Claire/West in the background. Making out? Could be.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

BrandonRe said:


> It was the same model.


that's what I thought at first, but somone told me I was wrong.


----------



## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

ping said:


> Well, they could have at least shown the *whole* license plate when Claire still had the car. As it is, it could well be another blue Nissan Rogue with a California license plate that starts with "2" and has a bumper sticker from her high school on it


Wasn't Claire's car rust colored? I immediately thought it was her car, but then recalled that her's was a different color, at least that's what I thought.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Kablemodem said:


> Wasn't Claire's car rust colored? I immediately thought it was her car, but then recalled that her's was a different color, at least that's what I recall.


hence, my initial post. I couldn't recall the color.


----------



## Knives of Ice (Nov 8, 2006)

well, this season has been horrible so far. at least this episode is a bit of a step in the right direction


----------



## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> hence, my initial post. I couldn't recall the color.


I tend to post without reading what other people have posted before. I call it "Kablemodeming."


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Kablemodem said:


> I tend to post without reading what other people have posted before. I call it "Kablemodeming."


LOL.

But seriously, I thought Claire's was a maroon color.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

A maroon Maurano?


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Kablemodem said:


> Wasn't Claire's car rust colored? I immediately thought it was her car, but then recalled that her's was a different color, at least that's what I thought.


I don't remember what color her car was, or even what it looked like. But since her car was stolen, and they zoomed in on the sticker of this one, I just assumed that was the car.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

For the love of all that his holy, won't someone post screen caps of the two vehicles??


----------



## BrandonRe (Jul 15, 2006)

wprager said:


> Change "interrupted" to "interpreted" to make grammatical sense.
> 
> It refers to Isaac's painting -- the last of eight. It shows HRG with what looks like a bullet hole through his left lens, blood on his face, and Claire/West in the background. Making out? Could be.


Ahh...the picture. Make sense. I was trying to figure out when this had happened in live action.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

TAsunder said:


> For the love of all that his holy, won't someone post screen caps of the two vehicles??


Claire's car.









The reason I thought it must have been maroon is because there's a reflection of the building behind them in the window that appears to be reddish/maroonish or something.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

I think that settles it?


----------



## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Still watching and still enjoying but I am bored to tears and FF'ing through the twins and Masi Oka's storyline. Hopefully it will pick up.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

I may be smeeking, but the car that the twins had wasn't their car, but the dude in the jail's car who they took with them. Seemed like an American teenager, so maybe he stole it from Claire and took it to Mexico and got caught doing something.

-smak-


----------



## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> ...
> Could takezo kensei be the ancestor of ALL the heroes?...


I made a similar observation in last week's thread and got slapped down for it.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JimSpence said:


> I made a similar observation in last week's thread and got slapped down for it.


I'm wondering if he isn't the founder of the Company and/or The Twelve...


----------



## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

Sylar keeps killing off the women I'm hot for. That's how you can tell he's evil.

(Assuming Candace actually is dead, of course.)


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I dont think Kensei is from the future.

I do think that Hiro wil take him there, but possibly to a point in the recent past.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Kensei better be a MAJOR factor in the evolution of the Heroes. OTherwise, I am going to be pissed that they are wasting so much time on this folk hero from Hiro's childhood story time.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

smak said:


> I may be smeeking, but the car that the twins had wasn't their car, but the dude in the jail's car who they took with them. Seemed like an American teenager, so maybe he stole it from Claire and took it to Mexico and got caught doing something.
> 
> -smak-


Cool -- a _smak smeek_.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> But last episode, it just happened when he was too far away, and she couldn't control it.
> 
> In this one, she was fine for quite a while when he was far away, and it was only till they made her angry, or to be more accurate, afraid (at her prodding), like the Hulk, does it happen.


I pointed it out last week, and I'm surprised more people haven't picked up on it: the black death power has nothing to do with being apart, or being angry. It's crying. They are black tears coming from her eyes.


----------



## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

madscientist said:


> After Sylar couldn't use her power I wondered briefly if Candice hadn't made him imagine the whole thing, and she's not really dead. It does seem extraordinarily stupid of her to handle him so casually.
> 
> Peter's plot is annoying, and not just because of the truly horrible Irish accents.
> 
> I was hoping Hiro was coming back and I was pleased to think they were ending that plotline, but then they didn't... *sigh*.


What is so horrible about the accents?


----------



## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

I love and hate this show at the same time.

If that was Candace... why didn't she just do something to make Sylar freak out and not kill her.

Why didn't Peter do anything when the box was on the table in front of him? Then they have to keep this status quo by making him stay there. Cheap plot device.

Hiro had to stay? Ugh... when is the payoff? I like him interacting with Ando.

I want something to happen soon! Why can't they have a big story arc and have them fighting something every week? Everyone is off on their own with TOO MUCH soap-ish stories to it. I wish they had at least become friends and stayed close after the end of last season. Wouldn't this be a common bond??


----------



## vikingguy (Aug 12, 2005)

You are not the only one hiro/ando interaction was one of my favorite plot lines last year. This season has been bad so far nothing has happened at all. I hate the whole high school romance crap. I hate the wonder twins they are just terrible. I get it she is toxic when scared how many times do we need to see it. They need to get rid of some of the current characters before introducing more. It seems the writers are just content with the status quo.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

LordKronos said:


> I pointed it out last week, and I'm surprised more people haven't picked up on it: the black death power has nothing to do with being apart, or being angry. It's crying. They are black tears coming from her eyes.


And it freaks me out. I hate stuff coming from people's eyes. Ick.


----------



## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

NJChris said:


> I want something to happen soon! Why can't they have a big story arc and have them fighting something every week? Everyone is off on their own with TOO MUCH soap-ish stories to it. I wish they had at least become friends and stayed close after the end of last season. Wouldn't this be a common bond??


I blame it on _Lost_. So many shows after it came out have decided wandering, slow to move forward plots are the secret for success.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Idearat said:


> I blame it on _Lost_. So many shows after it came out have decided wandering, slow to move forward plots are the secret for success.


Now Lost is to blame for the writing in Heroes? And even after Lost has gone to great lengths to tinker with the schedule, endured two years of complaints, and finally specified a series end date to keep their story moving and respond to the vocal fan criticism. Yet, Heroes has decided it's still a secret for success and made a conscious choice to do it this way. I thought we had until at least the new year until Lost bashing was back in vogue.


----------



## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

MickeS said:


> I think that settles it?


I want vehicle identification numbers.


----------



## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

hefe said:


> Now Lost is to blame for the writing in Heroes? And even after Lost has gone to great lengths to tinker with the schedule, endured two years of complaints, and finally specified a series end date to keep their story moving and respond to the vocal fan criticism. Yet, Heroes has decided it's still a secret for success and made a conscious choice to do it this way. I thought we had until at least the new year until Lost bashing was back in vogue.


If I'd paid attention to _Lost_ since the 1st season I might have heard about some of those things.

I enjoy _Heroes_, but it's coming close to being one of those shows I'll either queue up and watch marathon style or just wait for the DVDs.


----------



## johnperkins21 (Aug 29, 2005)

WinBear said:


> Ooh, the plot thickens. West has been tagged by HRG before everything came to a head. I guess Claire can't bring him home to meet dad.


Why didn't West recognize him when they "met" outside the school? HRG was there when West almost hit Claire with the car. Also, he's been stalking her and peeping through her windows for days now. He hasn't seen HRG once, but he'll never forget the guy's face. WTF? I call shenanigans.

And count me in on the I hate the illegal aliens club. Zero reason to add these losers to the show. There's already enough story lines going.



Greg Beeman said:


> From his blog: "Im sure fans will also be very happy that this episode brings two of last years characters back."


Are there people out there who like Niki and/or Micah? They were the worst part of the show until these future illegal aliens showed up.


----------



## G8rMan (May 26, 2005)

jsmeeker said:


> Kensei better be a MAJOR factor in the evolution of the Heroes. OTherwise, I am going to be pissed that they are wasting so much time on this folk hero from Hiro's childhood story time.


I think that would be a forgone conclusion. Why else would his symbol be EVERYWHERE inn the Heroes world?


----------



## TreborPugly (May 2, 2002)

One cool way to handle Hiro's time travel is if he ends up being the caretaker of the gifted throughout history. He could end up being the orchestrator of the group his Father was a member of, but some of them end up getting out of his control.

He still needs a good bit of time to turn into "sword master Hiro" that we saw last season.


----------



## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

TreborPugly said:


> One cool way to handle Hiro's time travel is if he ends up being the caretaker of the gifted throughout history. He could end up being the orchestrator of the group his Father was a member of, but some of them end up getting out of his control.
> 
> He still needs a good bit of time to turn into "sword master Hiro" that we saw last season.


Sword Master Hiro came from the alternate future that was prevented.


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

I'm so slow when it comes to making connections that when I saw that the car was a Nissan Rogue I said "How lame!"

West and the kid in Mexico are obviously (to me) company plants. I was pissed last season by the incredible coincidences (Nikki and DL are both "powers" that got together) that were eventually explained by Linderman, so they better not try to convince us that Claire happens to be befriended by another power who sits next to her in class and mysteriously starts stalking her at night.


----------



## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

It was driving me crazy who the guy that Peter slammed up aginst the wall was. I knew he was in Enterprise, but my first IMdB search was flawed.

Dominic Keating


----------



## Scubee (Mar 2, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I'm wondering if he isn't the founder of the Company and/or The Twelve...


If he were still alive today, I imagine he wouldn't be much to look at. Sounds like a good excuse to wear a hooded sweatshirt....and now we know he can recover after pushing Zulu off the building top.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

LordKronos said:


> I pointed it out last week, and I'm surprised more people haven't picked up on it: the black death power has nothing to do with being apart, or being angry. It's crying. They are black tears coming from her eyes.


Heaven forbid she ever gets pregnant. She'll be watching Kodak and Puppy Chow commercials and people in the neighborhood will start dropping like flies.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

I guess Sylar doesn't like the booty.


I mean he could have indulged the Swedish twins for a while first while he healed.

Sheesh...


----------



## TreborPugly (May 2, 2002)

The more I think about it, the more I believe that the next time we see Sylar, he'll be discovering that he's still in Candice's illusion, and she's fine. The overweight version of her is what everyone has been thinking, and she knows it, so that's what she did. Her real self might be more of a shocker, if we ever see it. (They can keep doing this to us, which writers love I'm sure.)

Chances are, his powers are actually still working, but since he's living in her illusion, she's just not letting him see it. (He's probably not injured anymore either)


----------



## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

TreborPugly said:


> The overweight version of her is what everyone has been thinking, and she knows it, so that's what she did.


It also happens to be accurate. Having said that, though, nothing prevents her from creating an illusion for the surrounding environment that involves her looking like she really does.


----------



## catcard (Mar 2, 2001)

GAWD! Trying to figure all this stuff out gives me a headache! Kinda like trying to figure out the Lost mysteries......

I, too, hate the new twin characters


----------



## TreborPugly (May 2, 2002)

ping said:


> It also happens to be accurate.


How do you know that? Have we ever seen her real self? The writers could go in any direction here.


----------



## kdelande (Dec 17, 2001)

Ugh, this season has paled in comparison to last. Very disappointing that we start all over again with nearly all the "Heroes" separated.

Twins suck, very much agree with the analogy of Nikki and Paolo from Lost. As others have states, YES we get it, she cries black oil, he cleans up the mess, move on!

Also hate Hiro stuck in Japan, get him back!!!

Something I haven't seen commented on yet: Where did the FX budget money go? Monday's ep has so many crappy looking green screen scenes I couldn't stand it, they looked so bad (in SD anyway). Very disappointing drop in FX quality.

Can't believe this show has taken such a steep nose dive, IMO.

KD


----------



## kdelande (Dec 17, 2001)

TreborPugly said:


> How do you know that? Have we ever seen her real self? The writers could go in any direction here.


The comics (yeah, I know...) have covered this and the subtle comments she has made in the show last year in the hotel room with Micah.

KD


----------



## johnperkins21 (Aug 29, 2005)

kdelande said:


> Something I haven't seen commented on yet: Where did the FX budget money go? Monday's ep has so many crappy looking green screen scenes I couldn't stand it, they looked so bad (in SD anyway). Very disappointing drop in FX quality.
> 
> KD


I agree 100%. The flying effects and Candice's illusions were simply horrible. Some of the worst FX I have seen this decade.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm confused why everyone hates the new characters. Sure, we don't yet know how they tie in, and we've essentially seen the same thing from them three weeks in a row, but I've got to believe there's a good reason why they're involved. I don't hate them at all. I'm just bored with them until something different starts to happen.


----------



## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> I'm confused why everyone hates the new characters. Sure, we don't yet know how they tie in, and we've essentially seen the same thing from them three weeks in a row, but I've got to believe there's a good reason why they're involved. I don't hate them at all. I'm just bored with them until something different starts to happen.


Because they're new. People fear change.

Yet in the same thread we hear people saying, "I was really hoping it wasn't going to be the same Heroes." 

The dislike for new characters probably doesn't bode really well for the Heroes: Origins series.


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I'm confused why everyone hates the new characters. Sure, we don't yet know how they tie in, and we've essentially seen the same thing from them three weeks in a row, but I've got to believe there's a good reason why they're involved. I don't hate them at all. I'm just bored with them until something different starts to happen.


Agreed. I think the twins are currently boring, but so are Hiro's and Peter's storylines. And I've already stated my desire to see Flying Boy run over by a plane.


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

serumgard said:


> Because they're new. People fear change.
> 
> Yet in the same thread we hear people saying, "I was really hoping it wasn't going to be the same Heroes."
> 
> The dislike for new characters probably doesn't bode really well for the Heroes: Origins series.


I have mixed feelings about old vs new. I like Peter, Hiro, and Claire, and I'm glad they're still here. I also like seeing new faces/powers, and the twins story doesn't bother me any more than some of the other stuff that's going on.


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies.

I have been quite disappointed so far, I'm willing to cut it some slack but it needs to get on track storywise. Right now they are cutting from one 90 second scene to another with no clear story to hold it together - reminds me of the last season of The Soprano's 

I'm willing to stick with it cause I have faith, but my wife doesn't have my patience and it might become a problem to keep her watching unless there is some focus.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

serumgard said:


> The dislike for new characters probably doesn't bode really well for the Heroes: Origins series.


I'm looking forward to it. From what I've heard it introduce one new character a week. So I would assume that we get a fully resolved story each episode or something.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I'm confused why everyone hates the new characters. Sure, we don't yet know how they tie in, and we've essentially seen the same thing from them three weeks in a row, but I've got to believe there's a good reason why they're involved. I don't hate them at all. I'm just bored with them until something different starts to happen.


I don't hate them either. Sure, it could be more exciting, but at least it's somewhat different and it's clear it's going somewhere. Unlike last year's Nikki storyline, which was just boring.

The twins' power could be useful by the way, if someone wants to convince someone else that a person is dead, without actually killing them...


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Could someone remind me how it was that Niki healed after her hubby reached into her chest and squeezed her heart in Season 1, yet he has apparently succumbed to his injuries from the Season 1 finale.


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

getreal said:


> Could someone remind me how it was that Niki healed after her hubby reached into her chest and squeezed her heart in Season 1, yet he has apparently succumbed to his injuries from the Season 1 finale.


We don't know yet how/why he died. He was still alive, though injured, when Season 1 ended.


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

busyba said:


> We don't know yet how/why he died. He was still alive, though injured, when Season 1 ended.


I suspect the upcoming episode called "4 Months Earlier" could answer some questions.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Maybe DL is faking his death. Isn't he still wanted by the police???


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

I think the twin story is boring, because all we needed to do is see their powers once, and then have them get to the US. But now we've seen them 3 times, twice with the brothers reversing it aspect, and they are still in Mexico.

-smak-


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

getreal said:


> Could someone remind me how it was that Niki healed after her hubby reached into her chest and squeezed her heart in Season 1, yet he has apparently succumbed to his injuries from the Season 1 finale.


A) Niki is very, very tough, and B) He wasn't necessarily trying to kill her--he probably just gave her a heart attack, from which she recovered unnaturally quickly because of her powers.


----------



## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

I know it's already been mentioned, but when West picked up Claire and carried her of into the sky I could not get Margot Kidder's voice out of my head.

I loved that Sylar had to resort to using a piece of broken glass to get at Candace's brains. I guess his magic finger doesn't work so well anymore.


----------



## johnperkins21 (Aug 29, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> I'm confused why everyone hates the new characters. Sure, we don't yet know how they tie in, and we've essentially seen the same thing from them three weeks in a row, but I've got to believe there's a good reason why they're involved. I don't hate them at all. I'm just bored with them until something different starts to happen.


Well, it doesn't help that the guy playing West is a horrible actor. One of my biggest complaints with the new people is that there are already too many story lines going on. If they're taking screen time away from characters I like to tell these new stories, I'm just going to be bitter, which seems to be the case. The wonder twins story and powers are incredibly boring. Almost nobody likes to read that many sub-titles. At least with Hiro it's only a few here and there.

I don't think it's totally tied to the fact that they're new because Nikki and Micah weren't new, but nobody liked them. Part of the problem is that Micah can't act and Nikki's story just isn't compelling. Very similar issue with this new group of zeros.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

I never even thought of the sub-titles aspect regarding the twins and Hiro. I watch a lot of sub-titled movies, so it doesn't bother me at all. Maybe that's part of why people dislike those stories so much.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

MickeS said:


> I never even thought of the sub-titles aspect regarding the twins and Hiro. I watch a lot of sub-titled movies, so it doesn't bother me at all. Maybe that's part of why people dislike those stories so much.


There were lots of subtitles with Hiro and Ando during the first season. People liked that interaction a lot.


----------



## johnperkins21 (Aug 29, 2005)

jsmeeker said:


> There were lots of subtitles with Hiro and Ando during the first season. People liked that interaction a lot.


There were a few, but Ando spoke english and Hiro learned pretty quickly to at least speak in broken english. Three episodes of the twins and the only non subtitle we get from them is "no english."

I'm just saying that it's a contributing factor. I don't like their story, their powers or the characters and to top it off I have to read subtitles. Hiro and Ando are very like-able. Hiro's power is awesome; their story is interesting, but I have to read subtitles. Do you see how one is a very minor annoyance and the other just stacks up on top of multiple issues?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

MickeS said:


> I never even thought of the sub-titles aspect regarding the twins and Hiro. I watch a lot of sub-titled movies, so it doesn't bother me at all. Maybe that's part of why people dislike those stories so much.


We watch all our TV/Movies with CC on, so I didn't really notice it either.


----------



## gilmoregirls102 (Dec 29, 2005)

Skittles said:


> Hear hear!
> 
> As far as the rest of the episode... well, it just made me realize why I've been so nonplussed about Heroes Season 2. It just feels like the show is just biding its time while it prepares the juicy/important stuff for us.
> 
> ...


+100

I am so with you on that.

I miss loving the Hiro scenes again.

Please, please, please have him get out of 1671.


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## gilmoregirls102 (Dec 29, 2005)

PJO1966 said:


> I loved that Sylar had to resort to using a piece of broken glass to get at Candace's brains. I guess his magic finger doesn't work so well anymore.


Ahhh... I did not catch that. Good point! :up:

I am also one that does not like the Maya/ twin brother storyline... It's BORING.

And, where the HELL is Kristen Bell???!!! This is the only reason I wanted to watch the show... and why I caught up on season 1.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

gilmoregirls102 said:


> And, where the HELL is Kristen Bell???!!! This is the only reason I wanted to watch the show... and why I caught up on season 1.


We had a pretty heated discussion about this last week (due to someone posting details without spoiler tags), but she'll be on


Spoiler



in November during sweeps.


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## gilmoregirls102 (Dec 29, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> We had a pretty heated discussion about this last week (due to someone posting details without spoiler tags), but she'll be on
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


   

God, that is stupid.

Edit: Not the part where someone posted without spoiler tags (Hey, we were all new at one time) but the part about


Spoiler



Kristen Bell not coming on until November


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

gilmoregirls102 said:


> God, that is stupid.


Nielsen knows why.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

gilmoregirls102 said:


> God, that is stupid.
> 
> Edit: Not the part where someone posted without spoiler tags (Hey, we were all new at one time) but the part about
> 
> ...


... and yet you did it yourself just a couple posts ago.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

When somebody's on the cover of TV guide with 2 other Heroes cast members, is it then that it's not considered a spoiler any more??? Maybe???

As for the twins. I think another part of the problem of their boringness, is that with the first year Herpes (except Niki), their powers were cool. The girl twins power (so far) is to kill people. Not so cool.

-smak-


----------



## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Not trying to be contrary, just pointing out the fact that I can't remember the last time I saw a TV Guide cover.


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## gilmoregirls102 (Dec 29, 2005)

PJO1966 said:


> ... and yet you did it yourself just a couple posts ago.


Did what?

It wasn't a secret that she was going to be on the show.

The only thing to be spoiled is the WHEN... and I made sure to use those spoiler tags!


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

gilmoregirls102 said:


> Did what?
> 
> It wasn't a secret that she was going to be on the show.
> 
> The only thing to be spoiled is the WHEN... and I made sure to use those spoiler tags!


Not anymore it isn't. 

I'm just teasing you. Personally I don't care. I don't even know who she is, so seeing the name bandied about means nothing to me.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

PJO1966 said:


> I'm just teasing you. Personally I don't care. I don't even know who she is, so seeing the name bandied about means nothing to me.


Blasphemy. You must know who Veronica Mars is or we revoke your gay card.


----------



## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

dswallow said:


> Blasphemy. You must know who Veronica Mars is or we revoke your gay card.


It was revoked years ago after a certain derogatory comment about Judy Garland. I've heard of Veronica Mars but have never seen an episode.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

smak said:


> As for the twins. I think another part of the problem of their boringness, is that with the first year Herpes (except Niki), their powers were cool. The girl twins power (so far) is to kill people. Not so cool.


Damn, that's cold. I know a lot of us don't like the twins, but comparing them to herpes?


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

KB is dishing gossip in New York.


----------



## gilmoregirls102 (Dec 29, 2005)

jsmeeker said:


> KB is dishing gossip in New York.


That's not her.

You big tease 

Edit: I can't believe how right you are, jsmeeker.

Twice in a night. You are on a roll!


----------



## ccooperev (Apr 24, 2001)

wprager said:


> What's with all the ex-trek actors? First Sulu, now Uhura and Malcolm (from Enterprise).


Well, they could have used Colm Meaney aka Miles O'Brien from Star Trek NG.


----------



## ccooperev (Apr 24, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> Why would parkman and mohinder have to adopt her legally?


Well, there are nosey neighbors and if Molly isn't in school thats a real red flag.



TAsunder said:


> Could takezo kensei be the ancestor of ALL the heroes?


Well, I did feel some sense of kinship to Claire and wasn't Claire delivered to HRG by Hiro's father? How'd he end up with her? Did he take her from police custody? Oh and what ever was Hiro's father's power? The only ones of that bunch that had been displaying powers were Devaeux (dreamscaping) and Linderman (Healing).



TAsunder said:


> So Nichelle is possibly playing DL's mother, right? I think it's safe to assume since she'd old that she is one of the remaining unknown 5 (of the 9 formerly still alive) and/or the killer 6th.


So whats her power?


----------



## ccooperev (Apr 24, 2001)

Does anyone see the similarities in looks at least between Claire's "supposedly gay" friend Zach and her apparently "not gay" friend West? It seems like they re-invented Zach's character and made him creepy and straight. oh-wait, they did that already last season...


----------



## ccooperev (Apr 24, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> I dont think Kensei is from the future.
> 
> I do think that Hiro wil take him there, but possibly to a point in the recent past.


Except for some reactions to Hiro's powers, Kensei's attitudes and mannerisms seem "modern". I wouldn't imagine a 17th century soldier of fortune would be so cavelier about things. And he's certainly no "Anjin-San" (2 imaginary points if you can name that mini-series and the actor who played him).


----------



## ccooperev (Apr 24, 2001)

johnperkins21 said:


> And count me in on the I hate the illegal aliens club. Zero reason to add these losers to the show. There's already enough story lines going.
> 
> Are there people out there who like Niki and/or Micah? They were the worst part of the show until these future illegal aliens showed up.


So your hating "illegal" aliens would have many of the interesting characters carted off to jail, if a jail could contain them...

Dude, did you ever consider that neither Hiro or Ando entered the United States "legally" or for that matter Peter (an American) didn't enter Ireland legally (and no one bats an eye) so, why are you so upset about the twins other than they're annoying?

I could suggest a reason but I won't...


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Didn't Ando and Hiro fly to America?


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

ccooperev said:


> So whats her power?


To boldly go where no Hero has gone before?


----------



## ccooperev (Apr 24, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> Didn't Ando and Hiro fly to America?


They teleported at least on two occasions. And Hiro worked as a dishwasher, clearly not legal if he were here on a tourist visa or passport entry. Japanese don't (or didn't used to) need a visa prior to entry in the US. but they need to be admitted by an immigration official. Teleporting doesn't count as legal entry. 

The larger point is in my view is that Heroes story arc is about the World not just the United States and that extraordinary people come from all parts of the world.


----------



## Vendikarr (Feb 24, 2004)

ccooperev said:


> And he's certainly no "Anjin-San" (2 imaginary points if you can name that mini-series and the actor who played him).


Shogun, Richard Chamberland.


----------



## ccooperev (Apr 24, 2001)

ccooperev said:


> And he's certainly no "Anjin-San" (2 imaginary points if you can name that mini-series and the actor who played him).





Vendikarr said:


> Shogun, Richard Chamberland.


SCORE! oh and you're old like me!


----------



## slydog75 (Jul 8, 2004)

Ok, so I think Sylar really died on that plaza. I went back and watched the finalle from last season (thank you Netflix 'What Now'). When he's laying there, shortly after flinging Hiro they show a bunch of memories flash in his eyes and then his eyes go white. So I think the Company did something to bring him back. It may not even be the real Sylar anymore.. who knows. At any rate, while he was an awesome villan, I was really hoping they wouldn't bring him back.

Second, WTH happened to DL? Did the actor decide he didn't want to be on the show anymore? He was clearly on his way back to a full recovery at the end of last season.

Third, I'm also very tired of the wonder twins. Get on with it allready.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

ccooperev said:


> They teleported at least on two occasions. And Hiro worked as a dishwasher, clearly not legal if he were here on a tourist visa or passport entry. Japanese don't (or didn't used to) need a visa prior to entry in the US. but they need to be admitted by an immigration official. Teleporting doesn't count as legal entry.


Hiro teleported to America alone. After he teleported back and convinced Ando of his powers, the both of them flew (I assume legally) on a plane to America. Then Hiro teleported with Ando BACK to Japan to keep him safe. And since Hiro teleported to ancient day Japan after the big Sylar battle, we can probably safely assume that Ando flew back into America legally to be with Hiro's dad.


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

dswallow said:


> Nielsen knows why.


Because she's been such a ratings powerhouse in the past?


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

NoThru22 said:


> Because she's been such a ratings powerhouse in the past?


Because if they're gonna introduce a character played by an actress with a loyal fan following, they're probably going to do it when that following has the best chance of translating into dollars by increasing viewership, which isn't something that'll really matter during a non-ratings-sweep month.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

David Platt said:


> Damn, that's cold. I know a lot of us don't like the twins, but comparing them to herpes?


Well, herpes is annoying, and just when you forget about it, it shows up again*.

So I guess the analogy fits -- even if it was a funny typo. 

*... or so I've heard, anyway.


----------



## johnperkins21 (Aug 29, 2005)

ccooperev said:


> So your hating "illegal" aliens would have many of the interesting characters carted off to jail, if a jail could contain them...
> 
> Dude, did you ever consider that neither Hiro or Ando entered the United States "legally" or for that matter Peter (an American) didn't enter Ireland legally (and no one bats an eye) so, why are you so upset about the twins other than they're annoying?
> 
> I could suggest a reason but I won't...


I don't hate "illegal" aliens, just these two characters on Heroes. I called them that because I didn't remember their names or the their wonder twins nickname.

I have the utmost respect for people who risk their lives to cross the border simply to provide a better life for their families. It would be great if they could come over legally, but it's incredibly difficult. The conditions people live in across the border are horrendous, and if I were in their position I would do anything I could to get to America, legally or illegally. I have known many illegal immigrants and they have all been very hard working, joyous people, and a pleasure to be around. It is humbling to see their dedication to family and how much they value their opportunity. I meant absolutely no disrespect to anyone other than the producers and writers of this show, and am sorry that you misinterpreted my comments.

On to your points. As has been stated Ando and Hiro flew to America, meaning they were here legally. Suresh did as well. Not sure about the Haitian. Peter did not choose to enter Ireland as far as we can tell, and since his box wasn't opened we don't know if there is a passport in there or not.


----------



## [NG]Owner (Dec 19, 2006)

johnperkins21 said:


> I have the utmost respect for people who risk their lives to cross the border simply to provide a better life for their families. It would be great if they could come over legally, but it's incredibly difficult. The conditions people live in across the border are horrendous, and if I were in their position I would do anything I could to get to America, legally or illegally.


Total thread jack, but here goes:

Hogwash.

How is that any different from this:

I have the utmost respect for people who risk their lives to rob banks simply to provide a better life for their families. It would be great if they could come into money legally, but it's incredibly difficult. The conditions people live in are horrendous, and if I were in their position I would do anything I could to get money, legally or illegally.

[NG]Owner


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Because they are really really different.


----------



## johnperkins21 (Aug 29, 2005)

[NG]Owner said:


> Total thread jack, but here goes:
> 
> Hogwash.
> 
> ...


If I need to tell you, then you're simply arguing for the sake of arguing. You honestly don't see the difference? I feel very sorry for you, and wish your parents had done a better job at teaching you that you are not special because of where you were born, only lucky.


----------



## [NG]Owner (Dec 19, 2006)

I am neither special, nor am I lucky. I simply am.

What my parents have done is instill a desire to respect and honor the laws of my country. I wish your parents had done the same (returning that barb right back at you).

I see that both paragraphs describe the breaking of the law of this country. Why should one be tolerated and the other not?

I will defend your ability to lament the laws as they stand, and give you wide berth to call for their repeal/modification/expansion, but I will not join you in condoning the flouting of those same laws.

[NG]Owner


----------



## LlamaLarry (Apr 30, 2003)

Wait a second, what happened to all the talk about Peter being shirtless?


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

johnperkins21 said:


> If I need to tell you, then you're simply arguing for the sake of arguing. You honestly don't see the difference? I feel very sorry for you, and wish your parents had done a better job at teaching you that you are not special because of where you were born, only lucky.


I don't see the difference either. It's illegal. You can't justify breaking one law because it's benificial to someone and not justify others.

Do I feel sorry for people in other countries that have a bad life. Sure. I'm not completely heartless. But I trust that America has rules to protect this country and if people can't cross legally then they shouldn't be crossing.


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

LlamaLarry said:


> Wait a second, what happened to all the talk about Peter being shirtless?


Peter being shirtless was great, until we learned he was illegally in Ireland and then it got all messy


----------



## johnperkins21 (Aug 29, 2005)

unicorngoddess said:


> I don't see the difference either. It's illegal. You can't justify breaking one law because it's benificial to someone and not justify others.
> 
> Do I feel sorry for people in other countries that have a bad life. Sure. I'm not completely heartless. But I trust that America has rules to protect this country and if people can't cross legally then they shouldn't be crossing.


I created this topic in Happy Hour to avoid further thread-jacking.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

JohnB1000 said:


> Peter being shirtless was great, until we learned he was illegally in Ireland and then it got all messy


Peter shirtless and sticky? Works for me.


----------



## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

Aniketos said:


> As soon as I turned to my friends and said, "I hate them as much as I did Nikki last year.", next scene is freaking Nikki.
> 
> There are too many stories going on right now and bouncing around like that really just ends the episode with nothing really happening. By the end the only big thing was the picture at the end.
> 
> And my god the West/Clair flying scene was cheesy and bad special effects, I was waiting for "A Whole New World" to start playing.


The twins/Nikki thing happened to us too. I said EXACTLY the same thing to my wife, then bingo! It was a true laugh out loud moment in what has been a very disappointing (as in s-l-o-w) start to S2.


----------



## Fraser+Dief (Nov 18, 2005)

Ok, surprised no one mentioned this theory. (Or I missed it).

Sylar *does* have the power of illusion now. He just doesn't realise it yet.

The illusion you make is for *someone else*. There's no one else in that room, if there were, they would have seen Sylar's illusions.

We have no idea what Candice has been seeing all along. Sylar is just assuming that she was seeing her own illusions.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Fraser+Dief said:


> Ok, surprised no one mentioned this theory. (Or I missed it).


Idearat did in post #22 of this thread: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5579391&&#post5579391


----------



## classicX (May 10, 2006)

Skittles said:


> I'm waiting to find out just what the heck happened following the battle at Kirby Plaza. There's obviously so much that happened there, because almost every single Hero has gone into hiding. But why?


Just coming back to the forums, so forgive me if this is a smeek, but:



Spoiler



Either the 8th or 9th episode or "chapter" will be called: "4 months ago" and will fill in the storyline from the battle at Kirby Plaza.



An interesting note about the battle at Kirby - I read that it was supposed to be a really epic battle, with vehicles flying everywhere, but they just didn't have the budget (the director compared it to something like Spiderman 3, i.e. a blockbuster movie, that can afford all that). You can't really justify that cost, given the ratings, it would seem that most of the people watching have already been watching and the effects wouldn't draw in new viewers, especially being a season finale.

Still, it would have been awesome to see it.


----------



## classicX (May 10, 2006)

cwoody222 said:


> Hmm... it's this guy. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0564697/ But I can't say I recognize any of his credits. Oh well.


I remember him from CSI: Miami as the detective who had drama with Calleigh (pronounced "KAL-ee").


----------



## brnscofrnld (Mar 30, 2005)

Fraser+Dief said:


> Ok, surprised no one mentioned this theory. (Or I missed it).
> 
> Sylar *does* have the power of illusion now. He just doesn't realise it yet.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I was thinking about that as well. The problem I have is how would Candice have figured out that she had the power to begin with then? Someone telling her that they are seeing something compleatly different then what is around them?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

brnscofrnld said:


> Yeah, I was thinking about that as well. The problem I have is how would Candice have figured out that she had the power to begin with then? Someone telling her that they are seeing something compleatly different then what is around them?


I suppose in high school she would eventually have figured out that every guy in school she day-dreamed about thinking she was a complete knock-out who then hit on her wasn't a chubby-chaser...


----------



## classicX (May 10, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I suppose in high school she would eventually have figured out that every guy in school she day-dreamed about thinking she was a complete knock-out who then hit on her wasn't a chubby-chaser...


Occam's Razor applies a bit here, I think - I think she knows that she can create illusions because she can see them.

If she couldn't, she would have no way of knowing if her illusion was effective or not.


----------



## brnscofrnld (Mar 30, 2005)

classicX said:


> Occam's Razor applies a bit here, I think - I think she knows that she can create illusions because she can see them.
> 
> If she couldn't, she would have no way of knowing if her illusion was effective or not.


Agree with the Occam's Razor part, but I guess it makes it fun to think about how it would work out in Real life. The show as a whole should be looked at for pure entertainment value and nothing more.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

classicX said:


> Occam's Razor applies a bit here, I think - I think she knows that she can create illusions because she can see them.
> 
> If she couldn't, she would have no way of knowing if her illusion was effective or not.


But Occam's Razor might also suggest that Sylar CAN still duplicate powers, and the only reason he thinks he didn't get Candace's power is that he can't see the illusion.

Of course, Occam's Razor also suggests that this is just a TV show, supernatural powers are BS, and we're a bunch of morons for arguing about how they work. Me, I don't like Occam so much.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Occam's razor does not apply to works of fiction.


----------



## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> Occam's razor does not apply to works of fiction.


That would be [Rube] Goldberg's razor. The most complicated, convoluted explanation that drags an answer out over a whole TV season is the most likely.


----------



## classicX (May 10, 2006)

Idearat said:


> That would be [Rube] Goldberg's razor. The most complicated, convoluted explanation that drags an answer out over a whole TV season is the most likely.


Welcome to Season One.

=P

Anyway, I didn't notice if this was posted or not, but:



Spoiler



Candace is really dead.


----------



## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I suppose in high school she would eventually have figured out that every guy in school she day-dreamed about thinking she was a complete knock-out who then hit on her wasn't a chubby-chaser...


It was addressed in the graphic novels...



Spoiler



She can definitely see her own illiusions


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

It seems to me that an illusionist who couldn't see her own stuff would be like a blind artist. It might be possible, but it would sure be very hard to do it right!


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

allan said:


> It seems to me that an illusionist who couldn't see her own stuff would be like a blind artist. It might be possible, but it would sure be very hard to do it right!


I didn't look at the graphic novels, but I'd think there's a difference between "seeing your illusion" and "being fooled by your illusion". To be effective you'd want to be able to step out of the illusion while leaving it for the person you're fooling.

If this was not the case, then while Sylar was on Maui she'd never be able to leave the room and interact with the "real" world. So there has to be a way to present an illusion to others that still allows the illusionist to experience reality.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

Idearat said:


> I didn't look at the graphic novels, but I'd think there's a difference between "seeing your illusion" and "being fooled by your illusion". To be effective you'd want to be able to step out of the illusion while leaving it for the person you're fooling.
> 
> If this was not the case, then while Sylar was on Maui she'd never be able to leave the room and interact with the "real" world. So there has to be a way to present an illusion to others that still allows the illusionist to experience reality.


I doubt that she'd be "fooled" by her illusion, since she knows she's doing it, and exactly what she's doing (just a guess as I haven't seen the novels either). But you do have a point. It would suck if she walked into a wall that was covered up by her illusions.


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## FilmCritic3000 (Oct 29, 2004)

classicX said:


> I remember him from CSI: Miami as the detective who had drama with Calleigh (pronounced "KAL-ee").


I remember him from _Creepshow 2_ as the Native American thug who murdered George Kennedy and Dorothy Lamour in the first story "Old Chief Wood'nHead".

http://www.thefleshfarm.com/creepshow/creep2P.html

(He's in the ninth picture.)


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It didn't change, it just faded in such a way that we could see the symbol.


As soon as he was getting the tattoo I was saying "he can't get a tattoo, his skin will heal around the scarring". I was very happy to see the tattoo heal itself off. Seeing "godsend" on the way was a bonus!



Rob Helmerichs said:


> I thought it was a combination. He tried to go back, but his heart wasn't really in it because he wanted to stay, so he didn't succeed.


+1



busyba said:


> We don't know yet how/why he died. He was still alive, though injured, when Season 1 ended.


During the final events of the first season, seven people got or were presumed to have gotten fatal injuries (Sylar, Peter, Nathan, DL, Linderman, Parkman, and the company guy whose name eludes me). One of those (Peter) had Claire's ability so can be discounted; that leaves six. Of those, three have definitely survived somehow, and it appears three died. That seems about right for the usual survival rate of mortally wounded people on TV.


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