# Moca solution recommended/supported by Tivo?



## atomarchio (Sep 24, 2006)

After experiencing issues with slow MRS on my Premieres with Wireless N adapter, I have decided to purchase the Moca Coax-Ethernet solution.

Just based on what I've read here and realizing wireless is not going to work to my satisfaction.

Is there a particular brand/model recommended for Premiere? I do have an Amplifier in my setup from Time Warner Cable because of high number of cable TV connections in my home. I also have a DLINK DIR-655 router with Digital Cable/Home Telephone bundle.

If there's a particular brand/model you could suggest it would be helpful.

Please let me know. Thanks.


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Well TiVo is selling an Actiontec MoCA bridge @tivo.com so that would be a safe bet (and I'm sure you could buy the same model elsewhere cheaper):
https://www3.tivo.com/store/accessories-networking.do#ECB2500C
But like 802.11* stuff there are specific standards to be followed so pretty much any model should work. I've been using discontinued Moto NIM100 units purchased from Ebay for years without issue (though they are bridging each other not communicating with Elite/XL4).


----------



## atomarchio (Sep 24, 2006)

Just called Tivo, they said I have to purchase a MOCA service from Time Warner and have them install. Is that correct? 

Can someone help me understand what needs to be done with Time Warner before the equipment arrives? 

And do I need 1 or 2 of these adapters?

Please help. Thanks.


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

No, that's bull you don't need cable company to get involved. Setup depends on exactly what you want to do and what TiVo units you have that you want to network together. For example Elite/XL4 has built in MoCA capability where Regular or XL Premiere units do not. So you will need to supply more details about your setup. Also important to know is if 1 of your Premiere unit resides beside your router or not.

In my example I have 1 Premiere upstairs in office right next to a router, 1 Premiere in Living Room and 1 S3 OLED unit in a bedroom and a total of 3 MoCA units bridging them all together. 1 MoCA unit has to connect to your router.


----------



## atomarchio (Sep 24, 2006)

I have a DIR655 router in basement with Cable Modem from Time Warner. Then I have a Tivo Premiere XL in bedroom.

So the Premiere unit is not in the same room as router. So I would need to purchase one of the MOCA adapters and place by router with second unit in the bedroom by the Premiere, right?

Is there anything else I need to know or add't equipment to purchase?


----------



## RoanokeHokie (Nov 16, 2000)

atomarchio said:


> I have a DIR655 router in basement with Cable Modem from Time Warner. Then I have a Tivo Premiere XL in bedroom.
> 
> So the Premiere unit is not in the same room as router. So I would need to purchase one of the MOCA adapters and place by router with second unit in the bedroom by the Premiere, right?
> 
> Is there anything else I need to know or add't equipment to purchase?


I think you should also purchase and install a MoCA Point of Entry (PoE) Filter where the cable drop first enters your home. Without installing a filter, it's possible that other subscribers on your node (e.g. your neighbors) could also pick up your MoCA signal & gain access to your network.


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

atomarchio said:


> I have a DIR655 router in basement with Cable Modem from Time Warner. Then I have a Tivo Premiere XL in bedroom.
> 
> So the Premiere unit is not in the same room as router. So I would need to purchase one of the MOCA adapters and place by router with second unit in the bedroom by the Premiere, right?
> 
> Is there anything else I need to know or add't equipment to purchase?


 Correct, 2 units bridging together is all you need. As mentioned above a POE filter would be an optional thing to add as well though it is not required (I don't have one but I have an 8-way amplified splitter at POE which effectively kills return path to outside anyway). But it's cheap enough where you can throw one in the cart from wherever you buy your MoCA units from.


----------



## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

Go MoCA!!! You will love it. My MRS and transfers are crazy fast.


----------



## news4me2 (Jul 10, 2010)

If you need to hook up more networked devices than your TiVo in each remote room, you can use this Channel Master 4 Port Moca Device:

http://www.channelmaster.com/CM6004_4Port_Coax_Adapter_s/285.htm

It's about $100 on Amazon or directly from Channel Master.

I have been using one of these along with a couple of NetGear Moca devices non-stop for the last 4 months without flaw...


----------



## atomarchio (Sep 24, 2006)

The only question for me at this point is whether I should purchase NetGear or ActionTec Moca's solution.

Does anyone has comments/preferences between these two? Anything in particular I should pay attention to when comparing?


----------



## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

news4me2 said:


> If you need to hook up more networked devices than your TiVo in each remote room, you can use this Channel Master 4 Port Moca Device:
> 
> http://www.channelmaster.com/CM6004_4Port_Coax_Adapter_s/285.htm
> 
> ...


Or you could just buy this for less than $15 shipped.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Verizon-Fio...10879557017?pt=PCC_Modems&hash=item19d0efc599

I bought several of these for my house and they work perfectly. You can connect multiple devices and you can use them as a wireless access point if you need to.


----------



## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

aadam101 said:


> Or you could just buy this for less than $15 shipped.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Verizon-Fio...10879557017?pt=PCC_Modems&hash=item19d0efc599
> 
> I bought several of these for my house and they work perfectly. You can connect multiple devices and you can use them as a wireless access point if you need to.


There should be a notation with these... You will need at least some knowledge of networking as you are turning this router into a MOCA bridge.. Not that this is hard to do but it is not just plug and play

And they have not been going with everything included for less then 15 dollars on ebay for quite awhile. They will still run about 25-35 bucks with power adaptor and antenna included


----------



## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

compnurd said:


> There should be a notation with these... You will need at least some knowledge of networking as you are turning this router into a MOCA bridge.. Not that this is hard to do but it is not just plug and play
> 
> And they have not been going with everything included for less then 15 dollars on ebay for quite awhile. They will still run about 25-35 bucks with power adaptor and antenna included


The instructions are online and are VERY simple. You don't need any knowledge of networking. You just need the ability to follow simple instructions.

Most people don't even know what MoCa is. People who do know should be able to handle the instructions.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

If it hasn't been mentioned, the amp's placement should come before the point of entry splitter, as it most likely won't pass the moca signal through it.


----------



## DonaldBurns65144 (Jan 11, 2011)

moyekj said:


> No, that's bull you don't need cable company to get involved. Setup depends on exactly what you want to do and what TiVo units you have that you want to network together. For example Elite/XL4 has built in MoCA capability where Regular or XL Premiere units do not. So you will need to supply more details about your setup. Also important to know is if 1 of your Premiere unit resides beside your router or not.
> 
> In my example I have 1 Premiere upstairs in office right next to a router, 1 Premiere in Living Room and 1 S3 OLED unit in a bedroom and a total of 3 MoCA units bridging them all together. 1 MoCA unit has to connect to your router.


True, but only if you don't have Verizon FIOS. FIOS network router also does MOCA and so you don't need a MOCA adapter with it.


----------



## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

aadam101 said:


> The instructions are online and are VERY simple. You don't need any knowledge of networking. You just need the ability to follow simple instructions.
> 
> Most people don't even know what MoCa is. People who do know should be able to handle the instructions.


Here are the instructions in case the OP wants to decide. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1145636

Regarding connecting multiple devices, you can also get a pair of dedicated bridges and plug one into a switch. Then anything connected to the switch will automatically have access to the coax network.


----------



## dcstager (Feb 16, 2002)

I have the Netgear and it works better than anything I've ever used. Just dive into this people because it really works. MoCA is an awesome solution.


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

I agree about the Netgear MoCA boxes. So much better than WiFi (even N) and I can even use the Elite as a bridge to connect a PS3, BluRay Player, another TiVo (HD) and a PC. This leaves my wireless network for things that really need it, like laptops and phone.


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

I bought the POE filter- seemed like cheap insurance to be sure- but seems to me you can enable a pin/password for moca and then you don't even need that? I've read it helps keep the signal stronger but I'm not even sure if that's true either?

Aside from TiVo it doesn't seem anyone besides a couple oddball sellers even bother selling them. If netgear doesn't sell them, include them in the boxes, or recommend them then are they really needed?


----------



## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

MichaelK said:


> I bought the POE filter- seemed like cheap insurance to be sure- but seems to me you can enable a pin/password for moca and then you don't even need that? I've read it helps keep the signal stronger but I'm not even sure if that's true either?
> 
> Aside from TiVo it doesn't seem anyone besides a couple oddball sellers even bother selling them. If netgear doesn't sell them, include them in the boxes, or recommend them then are they really needed?


Belt + suspenders = better protection. And a hardware solution is generally better than a software solution.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

I don't know how much more secure POE filters make a network, but they do prevent signal interference between any adjacent homes sharing the same cable tap that also use moca. RCN installs them as a standard part of their Tivo installations for this reason.


----------



## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> I don't know how much more secure POE filters make a network, but they do prevent signal interference between any adjacent homes sharing the same cable tap that also use moca. RCN installs them as a standard part of their Tivo installations for this reason.


so does Cox with their whole home dvr.


----------



## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

ajwees41 said:


> so does Cox with their whole home dvr.


Bright House Networks installs them for their WHDVR as well.


----------



## ellinj (Feb 26, 2002)

Are POE filters unidirectional, the one I have doesn't indicate which way it should be installed.


----------



## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

ellinj said:


> Are POE filters unidirectional, the one I have doesn't indicate which way it should be installed.


POE should be one directional at point of entry


----------



## ellinj (Feb 26, 2002)

poppagene said:


> POE should be one directional at point of entry


Physically though, is there a difference in the direction the filter is installed. There is no arrow indicating the direction of signal. I can only assume that since it isn't marked that it doesn't matter.

Depending on exactly where the POE is filter is installed, on the first splitter or on a cable leading to the first splitter, the direction may be different.

Also, Cox recommends using one on any DOCSIS device on the network, (cable model and tuning adapters) Depending on if the filter is installed on the device itself or on the splitter the direction may be reversed.


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

ellinj said:


> Physically though, is there a difference in the direction the filter is installed. There is no arrow indicating the direction of signal. I can only assume that since it isn't marked that it doesn't matter.
> 
> Depending on exactly where the POE is filter is installed, on the first splitter or on a cable leading to the first splitter, the direction may be different.
> 
> Also, Cox recommends using one on any DOCSIS device on the network, (cable model and tuning adapters) Depending on if the filter is installed on the device itself or on the splitter the direction may be reversed.


good question- mine has a tape band on one end but i couldn't figure if that was the end that blocked or passed- lol. So i hooked it on how it was easiest at the splitter and went with it.

from reading the writing on them it looks like just a filter that blocks the frequencies that moca uses so i figured such a device probably would be omnidirectional. But again- I'm just guessing.

it is good to hear that the cable companies installs the filters- sounds like it's wise to have then.


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

BlackBetty said:


> Go MoCA!!! You will love it. My MRS and transfers are crazy fast.


How does it compare against hardwired ethernet speeds?


----------



## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

gweempose said:


> How does it compare against hardwired ethernet speeds?


You are limited by the Ethernet limitation of the equation but i believe it maxes out at 270Mbps


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

compnurd said:


> You are limited by the Ethernet limitation of the equation but i believe it maxes out at 270Mbps


Wait, I'm confused by this. I though MoCA uses coax only?


----------



## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

gweempose said:


> Wait, I'm confused by this. I though MoCA uses coax only?


If you are using Moca to Moca devices yes, but take the standard premiere and the XL they dont support moca,so you are converting the network on the coax, back to Ethernet for the device


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

The moca adapter connects to the Tivo by way of the ethernet port for all Tivos except the Elite/XL4, which has it built-in. So those boxes are limited to the speed of the Tivo's ethernet port, which is technically 100 mbps for the Premiere, and lower for any older hardware.


----------



## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> The moca adapter connects to the Tivo by way of the ethernet port for all Tivos except the Elite/XL4, which has it built-in. So those boxes are limited to the speed of the Tivo's ethernet port, which is technically 100 mbps for the Premiere, and lower for any older hardware.


Actually, I believe all Premieres are limited to 100Mbps. The XL4's chipset (BCM7413) only has the capability of 2 100Mbps ports on it (I sincerely doubt they are bonding two of them for 200Mbps throughput), which means that even when connecting to MoCA or Gigabit Ethernet there is only the ability to throughput 100Mbps to the Tivo.


----------



## haplo888 (Jun 9, 2009)

The instruction posed earlier mention using Rev A, C or D, but there have been issues with A and we should use later revisions.

Looking online I'm finding revisions F-I. Can anybody confirm that these even later revisions can also be easily converted (turning off wifi, ect.) to a MoCA router? Or should we look for a Rev C/D?

Thanks,
Haplo


----------



## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

I have one that is an A and has no issues


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

socrplyr said:


> Actually, I believe all Premieres are limited to 100Mbps. The XL4's chipset (BCM7413) only has the capability of 2 100Mbps ports on it (I sincerely doubt they are bonding two of them for 200Mbps throughput), which means that even when connecting to MoCA or Gigabit Ethernet there is only the ability to throughput 100Mbps to the Tivo.


They must be doing something because when I measured the speed on my first Elite I could hit peak throughput speeds of 130Mb/s from the gigabit Ethernet port. But this was also when having the box deal with a bunch of streams. I have not tested anything with the new software. With the old software last year it would let you initiate too many streams and the box would reboot.


----------



## HenryFarpolo (Dec 1, 2008)

haplo888 said:


> The instruction posed earlier mention using Rev A, C or D, but there have been issues with A and we should use later revisions.
> 
> Looking online I'm finding revisions F-I. Can anybody confirm that these even later revisions can also be easily converted (turning off wifi, ect.) to a MoCA router? Or should we look for a Rev C/D?
> 
> ...


I have used a Rev D and am currently using a Rev F, both without issues.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

haplo888 said:


> The instruction posed earlier mention using Rev A, C or D, but there have been issues with A and we should use later revisions.
> 
> Looking online I'm finding revisions F-I. Can anybody confirm that these even later revisions can also be easily converted (turning off wifi, ect.) to a MoCA router? Or should we look for a Rev C/D?
> 
> ...


The older Actiontecs are only MoCA 1.0. The newer ones are MoCA 1.1.

I think Rev. F was the first one to support MoCA 1.1.

And since MoCA 2.0 chips were just released hopefully Actiontec has a MoCA 2.0 router soon. Especially since any new TiVos next year should have MoCA 2.0 capability as well.


----------



## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> They must be doing something because when I measured the speed on my first Elite I could hit peak throughput speeds of 130Mb/s from the gigabit Ethernet port. But this was also when having the box deal with a bunch of streams. I have not tested anything with the new software. With the old software last year it would let you initiate too many streams and the box would reboot.


I don't know what to tell you other than, everyone else seems to get around the 80-90 Mbps realistic max of a 100Mbps link. The 130Mpbs may be an aberration of the measurement method (transfer speeds are hard to measure realistically). Even on that one, you said that you measured 95Mbps average. That is a very high efficiency for a 100Mbps link, but not unheard of however.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

socrplyr said:


> I don't know what to tell you other than, everyone else seems to get around the 80-90 Mbps realistic max of a 100Mbps link. The 130Mpbs may be an aberration of the measurement method (transfer speeds are hard to measure realistically). Even on that one, you said that you measured 95Mbps average. That is a very high efficiency for a 100Mbps link, but not unheard of however.


Yes, peaks are not an average, but it is impossible for a 100Mb/s connection to get 130Mb/s peaks. If I measure speed from a 100BT connection I will not see any peak speeds like that.
The bandwidth monitor program measures the throughput average as well as the peaks.

I'll need to set it up again one day to see what I get with the Spring software. But I don't have as many TiVos now so I can't push it to it's limit any more.


----------



## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

aaronwt said:


> And since MoCA 2.0 chips were just released hopefully Actiontec has a MoCA 2.0 router soon. Especially since any new TiVos next year should have MoCA 2.0 capability as well.


Do you mean if and when they release a Series 5? Or would you expect TiVo to implement a running change to start using MoCA 2.0 chips in Series 4 (XL4) production? Have they been known to do running changes? And are production lines still running for the XL4? I thought they might be just shipping from a large initial production run.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

L David Matheny said:


> Do you mean if and when they release a Series 5? Or would you expect TiVo to implement a running change to start using MoCA 2.0 chips in Series 4 (XL4) production? Have they been known to do running changes? And are production lines still running for the XL4? I thought they might be just shipping from a large initial production run.


In the S5 or Six tuner box. They probably wouldn't change an existing box. It would be in a new model.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I was messing around today and setup both my Elites using MoCA. I had needed to update my DLink MoCA adpaters to the newer firmware for awhile which made them MoCA 1.1 compliant instead of the 1.0 compliance they had initially. So I figured I might as well mess around with the MoCA for now.

Just looking at the transfer speed history it seems to be the same as when connected to my gigabit Ethernet Backbone. The only issue with my setup this way is that I can only get a 100Mb/s connection to my TiVo Desktop PC since the Dlink MoCA adapters only have a 100Mb/s Ethernet port. So speeds when transferring from multiple TiVos to TiVo desktop would be much slower. But fortunately I'm not using TiVo Desktop very much any more so it's not really an issue.

So I'll leave it connected like this for awhile and maybe leave it or switch back to the GigE ports on my Elites. (On my main Elite I used the ethernet port to connect a two tuner Premiere to the network. That seems to work very well too. Same speeds)


----------

