# Details on TiVo Series 4?



## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2007-11/details-on-tivo-series-4/

http://investor.tivo.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=279023

Series 3 will be obsolete soon???? Sell, Sell, Sell.....


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

It sounds more like boxes that TiVo would sell to cable companies since they support OCAP.


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## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

MediaLivingRoom said:


> http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2007-11/details-on-tivo-series-4/
> 
> http://investor.tivo.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=279023
> 
> Series 3 will be obsolete soon???? Sell, Sell, Sell.....


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

rainwater said:


> It sounds more like boxes that TiVo would sell to cable companies since they support OCAP.


 The text specifically mentions "retail Tivo DVR" and "standalone Tivo" (in bold in the quote) which makes it sound like Tivo made hardware which would be made available at retail to customers:


> In addition, as a result of our constructive conversations, TiVo and the cable industry have come to an agreement on a blue-print for a *retail TiVo DVR* using the cable industry's OpenCable Application Platform that will have full two-way cable service functionality. While the technical specifications are still being worked out, such a set-top box will mean TiVo subscribers will be able to get full access to cable VOD and other two-way cable services. This could also mean that a *standalone TiVo* offering could fully substitute for a cable operator set-top box. This understanding was communicated yesterday to the FCC through an ex parte filing by TiVo. We believe that this dialogue with the cable industry has been very constructive, and demonstrates the cable industry's genuine desire to work with TiVo, not to mention the clear recognition that TiVo is an important offering for cable subscribers.


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## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

They will anounce a Series 4 at $999 with a $299 lifetime transfer without the E-SATA enabled. So two steps forward one step back, TiVo Style.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

I wonder if it would be OTA enabled still.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

rainwater said:


> It sounds more like boxes that TiVo would sell to cable companies since they support OCAP.


That's the point. Making something for the consumer that can completely replace the cable co set top box.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

How many years until I can walk in to BB and buy one? 
I'm not being anxious, I'm saying it's a long ways off and I'll care about it later.


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## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> How many years until I can walk in to BB and buy one?
> I'm not being anxious, I'm saying it's a long ways off and I'll care about it later.


I bet it will be 2 years!!!


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## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

I hope they put a Gbit networking.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6519815501

November 27, 2007

Marlene H. Dortch, Secretary
Federal Communications Commission
445 12th Street, SW
Washington, DC 20554

Re: Commercial Availability of Navigation Devices, CS Docket No. 97-80, PP Docket No. 00-67

Dear Ms. Dortch:

This is to inform you that on November 26, 2007, Matthew Zinn, Senior Vice President, General Counsel, Secretary and Chief Privacy Officer of TiVo, Inc. (TiVo) and the undersigned had a telephone conversation with Cristina Pauzè, Legal Advisor to Commissioner Robert McDowell. The purpose of the telephone meeting was to discuss an arrangement that has been reached between TiVo and key companies in the cable television industry, as well as with the National Cable & Telecommunications Association, which is relevant to issues being considered in the above-captioned proceeding.

Pursuant to this arrangement, TiVo and the cable industry have developed an external adaptor that will allow certain one-way CableCARD devices, such as TiVo Series3 and TiVo HD DVRs, to receive all switched digital signals without a cable set-top box. A key component to this solution involves the cable industry's commitment to ensure that installation of CableCARDs and the external adapter will be easy and seamless for consumers.

In this proceeding, TiVo had expressed concerns about the cable industrys OpenCable Application Platform (OCAP) specifications and license terms. In response to TiVo's concerns, the cable industry has agreed to work with TiVo to make clarifications or adjustments to OCAP that may be necessary to enable TiVo to build what TiVo believes can be a viable retail DVR with OCAP. We explained that a TiVo DVR with OCAP would have a TiVo mode displaying all linear channels (including switched digital video enabled by OCAP) with the TiVo user interface and full DVR functionality as well as a cable mode running OCAP and displaying all cable programming services with the cable user interface without DVR functionality.

We also expressed our belief that this refined version of OCAP was a preferable solution to DCR+ for a variety of reasons, including time-to-market and the ability to receive all of cables two-way services. Manufacturers, cable companies, and consumers will benefit most from an OCAP-based solution that enables the creation of differentiated retail devices such as TiVo DVRs and allows all of cable's two-way services to reach the consumer within a reasonable time. In contrast, a DCR+-based solution would take longer to implement and result in devices with more limited functionality that would not enjoy the full support of the cable industry.

We concluded our meeting by stating that the clarifications or adjustments that will be made to OCAP to effectuate the creation of devices such as the TiVo DVR with OCAP effectively balances the concerns raised by TiVo in its comments in this proceeding with the cable industrys concerns about the disaggregation of its video services.

Please direct any questions regarding this matter to the undersigned.

Respectfully,
Henry Goldberg
Attorney for TiVo, Inc.


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## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

Interesting...

"We explained that a TiVo DVR with OCAP would have a &#8220;TiVo mode&#8221; displaying all linear channels (including switched digital video enabled by OCAP) with the TiVo user interface and full DVR functionality as well as a &#8220;cable mode&#8221; running OCAP and displaying all cable programming services with the cable user interface without DVR functionality."


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

MediaLivingRoom said:


> Series 3 will be obsolete soon???? Sell, Sell, Sell.....


*NOT* quite yet.... there are *STILL *people buying Series 2 machines. (Go Figure) Why oh why are they still wasting their money on those machines.

TGC


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> How many years until I can walk in to BB and buy one?
> I'm not being anxious, I'm saying it's a long ways off and I'll care about it later.


I don't see a rush to get this new device out considering the dongle will get SDV. We'll see if or when there is much business case for it.

I'd like to see it record VOD and PPV and have it playback in TiVo mode as well as offer live and DVR cable mode viewing, but it sounds like the plan is only live cable mode viewing of such content.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

HDTiVo said:


> I don't see a rush to get this new device out considering the dongle will get SDV. We'll see if or when there is much business case for it.


It can become another revenue stream for cable companies as well... providing the option to use a TiVo OCAP receiver instead of the current device they may be using. Basically this could be a generic entree for TiVo to enter the OEM cable set-top box market.


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## Bsteenson (Jul 30, 2000)

TexasGrillChef said:


> *NOT* quite yet.... there are *STILL *people buying Series 2 machines. (Go Figure) Why oh why are they still wasting their money on those machines.
> 
> TGC


1) Because if you look in the right places, Series 2 machines are free with a service commitment of at least a year.
2) Because you think that your cable company will continue to deliver an analog signal for several years.
3) Because there are few HD channels available in your area, or you aren't interested in buying an HD set.
4) Because you have read the horror stories of people trying to get cable cards working correctly on Series 3 boxes.
5) Because the Series 3 boxes are just too darn wide to fit in your media center. 

BS


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

dswallow said:


> It can become another revenue stream for cable companies as well... providing the option to use a TiVo OCAP receiver instead of the current device they may be using. Basically this could be a generic entree for TiVo to enter the OEM cable set-top box market.


Exactly. +1 :up:


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## fredct (Nov 15, 2004)

TexasGrillChef said:


> *NOT* quite yet.... there are *STILL *people buying Series 2 machines. (Go Figure) Why oh why are they still wasting their money on those machines.


Oh please... *some* people don't want to pay $200 extra for a TiVo, pay $500+ for a new HDTV, and then pay an extra $10, $15, $20/month to get a handful of HD channels, many of which have mostly SD content anyway. Convincing people to turn their $800/year cable bill into a $1000/year cable bill (plus extra hardware expenses), for a fraction of a few channels of prettier content, is not a winner.

HD is a great technology, but its mass market time has not arrived yet. It will arrived when 80%+ of your channels are available in HD and they have only HD content.

HD won't be available enough and at a reasonable enough price to make it worthwhile for the general public for another two or three years at least, and by that time, I'll probably be ready for a new TiVo anyway.

Finally, you act as if when the switchover happens the S2s will be useless. Absolutely not, an S2DT may no longer be a DT, but it'll still be absolutely serviceable and useful as any of the old S2STs were with a cable box. S2s bought today can be very very useful for 5-10 years to come.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> I'd like to see it record VOD and PPV and have it playback in TiVo mode as well as offer live and DVR cable mode viewing, but it sounds like the plan is only live cable mode viewing of such content


I think though, this is the exact key point TiVo is making with the cable company. For cable company services side to have access to DVR hardware makes the design very tough as then both TiVo interface and cable interface has to be integrated at the driver hardware level. Such a thing could be done but it exponentially increases design/development work.

So TiVo seems to be proposing an OCAP sandbox that is display and output signal only for specific cable company services and thus can be put in place fairly quickly and updates from the cable company are not then that significant a deal. Since it is VOD and PPV then recording it is really not a significant need. The only question is can two tuners continue to do two scheduled recordings while the user is in the cable company interface. With a multi-stream card capable of delivering 5 separate digital stream the answers seems that is very likely easy enough to do as well.

so Tivo can do its DVR design and so forth without too much consideration to the Cable Company side and the cable company gets to maintain its own interface to selling its services.Seems like both sides get what they want.

Then we get the threads on 'Why should I pay more for an OCAP I do not want to use?" and the replies of "Then get a series 3, they are sellng cheap or almost free now"


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I think though, this is the exact key point TiVo is making with the cable company. For cable company services side to have access to DVR hardware makes the design very tough as then both TiVo interface and cable interface has to be integrated at the driver hardware level. Such a thing could be done but it exponentially increases design/development work.
> 
> So TiVo seems to be proposing an OCAP sandbox that is display and output signal only for specific cable company services and thus can be put in place fairly quickly and updates from the cable company are not then that significant a deal. Since it is VOD and PPV then recording it is really not a significant need.


What I am thinking about is only the ability to have the VOD/PPV program record to the hard drive so that then it could be watched in the TiVo mode. That wouldn't cause any complication. The result is the ability to buy PPV/VOD and "download" it for watching at any time. Even if the program is free, its a one time "download" with no further burden on the cable co in the case of VOD to handle trick play, etc.

The reason to record for viewing in TiVo mode is the reduction of cable co burden, the convience of watching at alternate times, the ease of playing/trick playing the recording vs. cable VOD, better UI, better customer experience leading to more purchases, etc.

There doesn't have to be any complication. You order the program in cable mode and it records to the hard drive which should be easy enough for TiVo mode to playback. The only conflict is hdd space, which could be worked around with a seperate partition or reserved space, or frankly TiVo already deals with unexpected hdd space shortfalls when they happen. There is hardly any difference between 160, 250 and 300GB hard drive prices now, so including a slightly bigger hdd and giving cable mode 40 or 80GB or so isn't that big a cost deal compared to the benefit in overall functionality.

Maybe another conflict would be accessing the hdd by both modes simultaneously, but this shouldn't be difficult to manage.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

HDTiVo said:


> What I am thinking about is only the ability to have the VOD/PPV program record to the hard drive so that then it could be watched in the TiVo mode. That wouldn't cause any complication. The result is the ability to buy PPV/VOD and "download" it for watching at any time. Even if the program is free, its a one time "download" with no further burden on the cable co in the case of VOD to handle trick play, etc.
> 
> The reason to record for viewing in TiVo mode is the reduction of cable co burden, the convience of watching at alternate times, the ease of playing/trick playing the recording vs. cable VOD, better UI, better customer experience leading to more purchases, etc.
> 
> ...


A problem with this is that on HD shows, many PPV/VOD shows are being marked as "copy never" (which the cable companies are allowed to do), so the only thing you can do is watch it live with a 90 minute live buffer for the trick plays. Given this, I think there needs to be a closer relationship between the PPV and TiVo sides.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

CrispyCritter said:


> A problem with this is that on HD shows, many PPV/VOD shows are being marked as "copy never" (which the cable companies are allowed to do), so the only thing you can do is watch it live with a 90 minute live buffer for the trick plays. Given this, I think there needs to be a closer relationship between the PPV and TiVo sides.


I'd see that as working the same way as it does with TiVo now. That is you can only watch up to 90 min behind. TiVo already handles this.

In progress recording cable mode programs could be watched in TiVo mode just as any TiVo recording has always been watchable while still recording.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

TexasGrillChef said:


> *NOT* quite yet.... there are *STILL *people buying Series 2 machines. (Go Figure) Why oh why are they still wasting their money on those machines.
> 
> TGC


They have satellite or some other service not useable on the Series 3/THD.

They just don't care about HD just yet.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

fredct said:


> Oh please... *some* people don't want to pay $200 extra for a TiVo, pay $500+ for a new HDTV, and then pay an extra $10, $15, $20/month to get a handful of HD channels, many of which have mostly SD content anyway.


Maybe folks paid too much for hardware and didn't factor in the value of the service that they wanted. I think consumers, in general, have a much harder time coming to grips with how much they have to pay for a service, something that, practically speaking, is intangible.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

A box like this seems to be the "perfect" box for cable TV customers.

I would certainly be interested. It would beat having a Series 3 TiVo or HD TiVo PLUS keeping a cable STB just to watch VOD/PPV.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> I'd see that as working the same way as it does with TiVo now. That is you can only watch up to 90 min behind. TiVo already handles this.
> 
> In progress recording cable mode programs could be watched in TiVo mode just as any TiVo recording has always been watchable while still recording.


right. they siad there would be no DVR functionality but assuming the hard drive hardware can handle it (and if all digital, why not) then you have the live buffer and TiVo playback interface still. Just no now playing list and thus no more than 90 minute buffer of hard drive space needed.

I may have been too general in saying hardware drivers. I meant drivers and an upper hardware Access layer of code that could deal with both TiVo App and OCAP app contending for the same resources. The wall between them just makes everything easier to design plus the TiVo side needs to keep working as expected whether you walked away OR went into OCAPS mode. Seperation provides a much better chance of that staying the case.

again since the stuff is mainly VOD then let the guide be your now playing list


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## nirisahn (Nov 19, 2005)

HDTiVo said:


> I'd see that as working the same way as it does with TiVo now. That is you can only watch up to 90 min behind. TiVo already handles this.
> 
> In progress recording cable mode programs could be watched in TiVo mode just as any TiVo recording has always been watchable while still recording.


Did I miss a software update or something? My buffer on my TiVo is only 30 minutes.

Also, I manually record VOD and PPV stuff with no problem right now. I've never had an issue with those being restricted content or not saveable (is that a word?).


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## DrewTivo (Mar 30, 2005)

TexasGrillChef said:


> *NOT* quite yet.... there are *STILL *people buying Series 2 machines. (Go Figure) Why oh why are they still wasting their money on those machines.
> 
> TGC


I'm not wasting any money, since it was free.


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## DrewTivo (Mar 30, 2005)

scandia101 said:


> How many years until I can walk in to BB and buy one?
> I'm not being anxious, I'm saying it's a long ways off and I'll care about it later.


Is this something more sophisticated than a box that can use a two-way cablecard (or equivalent)? why is that Tivo4, instead of Tivo3.1?


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## sicembears (Sep 20, 2006)

HDTiVo said:


> I don't see a rush to get this new device out considering the dongle will get SDV. We'll see if or when there is much business case for it.
> 
> I'd like to see it record VOD and PPV and have it playback in TiVo mode as well as offer live and DVR cable mode viewing, but it sounds like the plan is only live cable mode viewing of such content.


Probably because they go out an buy a new fancy HD Tivo with THX and find out that still you have to play with it to get sound when you watch recordings.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

nirisahn said:


> Did I miss a software update or something? My buffer on my TiVo is only 30 minutes.
> 
> Also, I manually record VOD and PPV stuff with no problem right now. I've never had an issue with those being restricted content or not saveable (is that a word?).


On the Series3/TiVoHD, VOD and PPV content would presumably be marked "copy never", which is implemented as allowing a 90-minute window. Some content is currently marked copy-never, and this is how the Series3 handles it. This is different from the usual 30-minute window for watching "live".

You can manually record VOD/PPV on Series2 machines, since the cable box is just feeding the TiVo an analog signal, which doesn't have copy protection.

Note that cable companies are looking to sell other services beyond VOD and PPV. Comcast here has a car shopping channel, comparable in some ways to the Rhapsody service on TiVo.

Given that the content you get from the "cable mode" would be "copy never" anyway, I can't see what would be lost by having the "cable mode" side totally separate from the DVR (TiVo) side. Effectively provide a non-DVR cable company set-top box inside your TiVo.


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## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

http://www.electronista.com/articles/07/11/29/tivo.series.4.hint/


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

CharlesH said:


> Given that the content you get from the "cable mode" would be "copy never" anyway, I can't see what would be lost by having the "cable mode" side totally separate from the DVR (TiVo) side. Effectively provide a non-DVR cable company set-top box inside your TiVo.


Because that isn't given and watching even 90min content with a TiVo interface is a superior customer experience that leads to more VOD/PPV revenue and profits.
.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Bsteenson said:


> ...5) Because the Series 3 boxes are just too darn wide to fit in your media center.
> 
> BS


Hmmm....odd....since they're the standard component width found on almost all DVD/CD players, receivers, etc...


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

MediaLivingRoom said:


> http://www.electronista.com/articles/07/11/29/tivo.series.4.hint/


What morons write those things, anyway?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

dswallow said:


> What morons write those things, anyway?


beats me. My favorite part is that since they talked about it on the call it has to be out by Oct. 2008. Sure they want to put out such a box and yes TiVo has sped up the release of new products and features lately but no timetable was given and to specifically name a time as if TiVo announced it is just bad writing.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

DrewTivo said:


> Is this something more sophisticated than a box that can use a two-way cablecard (or equivalent)? why is that Tivo4, instead of Tivo3.1?


This is a box that not only supports two-way cards (the current Series 3/THD do support the cards, but in one-way mode), but it includes the hardware and software support for OCAP based two-way operation, plus SDV in one TiVo mode.

Series 4 is just a name. It might not have come out of TiVo, but some "journalist" could have dubbed it "Series 4". I am sure TiVo has their internal codename and tentative release name.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

classicsat said:


> This is a box that not only supports two-way cards (the current Series 3/THD do support the cards, but in one-way mode), but it includes the hardware and software support for OCAP based two-way operation, plus SDV in one TiVo mode.


What will be interesting is that the device will have the ability to run OCAP software. The Comcast port of TiVo is an OCAP application. I wonder if the new device will run a version of the ComcasTiVo OS.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

nirisahn said:


> Did I miss a software update or something? My buffer on my TiVo is only 30 minutes.
> 
> Also, I manually record VOD and PPV stuff with no problem right now. I've never had an issue with those being restricted content or not saveable (is that a word?).


Buffer is still 30 minutes, if you choose to watch such content from the buffer. However, if you choose to record "Copy Never" programming, it is limited to a life on 90 minutes. Apparently your provider doesn't employ the Copy Never flag.


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

CrispyCritter said:


> ...on HD shows, many PPV/VOD shows are being marked as "copy never" (which the cable companies are allowed to do), so the only thing you can do is watch it live with a 90 minute live buffer for the trick plays.


Does 'copy never' only apply to hi-def? What happens if 480i is selected for a standard-def output and the signal is supplied to an analog recorder?


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

Copy Never is not HD only, it can be any VOD or PPV, even SD.


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

MickeS said:


> I wonder if it would be OTA enabled still.


AFAIK, no cable box receives OTA. Satellite receivers often do, not because satellite co.'s are generous, but rather just suffer from technical limitations.

If, because cable co.'s still offered analog Basic, S4 would be capable of receiving analog Ch. 3, it would serve as an unsupported but effective analog line input, same as current hi-def TiVo's provide.

All too soon, neither Tivo users or anybody else will have any kind of standard-def line input unrestricted by digital providers' copy controls.


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

classicsat said:


> Copy Never is not HD only, it can be any VOD or PPV, even SD.


How would it affect a standard-def analog output; just a blank screen?

(EDIT) Actually, since the output signal would be used to generate a picture on a monitor/TV set it couldn't present a blank screen. It would have to include some form of copy protection, aka Macrovision, and there are many devices available which strip out Macrovision from an analog video signal.


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## jeffhanson1 (Dec 6, 2007)

This is exactly what cable should be - OPEN. Thanks goodness, Tivo has a big enough name for itself to help make this happen with the help of the FCC.

We all should know the CableCard solution was not the ultimate solution. It was a means to the end but not the end all, be all. No VOD or On Demand ?Open Cable equipment allows all the cable features (VOD, ON DEMAND) to be accessed as you should have the right to as a paying cable subscriber. Hence we have a new Tivo on the horizon. 

The greedy cable companies was counting on the revenue from rented boxes and tried to 'fix' thing so renting a box was the only way. You lose thanks to the FCC! It's even more surprising and appalling because they are doing it in the face of strong competition from satellite. This was just one of the reasons people have been cancelling their cable.

Now it will be just like using the phone. You no longer have to rent or buy the phone company's phone. You are free to by your own at the store and get the same features.

Tivo Series 4 is simply the solution to this as it incorporates the Open Cable technology to enable this to happen. This is what happens when technology changes or improves. A new model comes out.

As for me, I was just about to get a Tivo HD but the idea of buying a SDV tuning resolver, adding something else to the outside of the unit and still not being able to get VOD bothers me. I will hold off and keep using the cable company's box until Tivo 4 arrives. If Tivo offers lifetime service for Series 4, they can consider it sold.


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## kunikos (Jul 24, 2007)

MediaLivingRoom said:


> I hope they put a Gbit networking.


I'd take built-in Draft-N over Gbit.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

jeffhanson1 said:


> It's even more surprising and appalling because they are doing it in the face of strong competition from satellite.


Missing from your tirade was your outrage at the satellite companies who *completely refuse to allow you to use your own equipment with their service*



jeffhanson1 said:


> Tivo Series 4 is simply the solution to this as it incorporates the Open Cable technology to enable this to happen.


I think you are reading way too much into this, and your expectations for what the TiVo Series 4 will be are unreasonable. For all we know now, it will NOT do half a dozen things that you'll be expecting it to do (like it may not allow you to record SDV programming).



jeffhanson1 said:


> If Tivo offers lifetime service for Series 4, they can consider it sold.


I wouldn't be so sure. At that point, its limitations will be clearer. I'll probably buy one, but I'm not so sure about you.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

jeffhanson1 said:


> The Cable Company's Worst Nightmare: Tivo 4
> 
> Now it will be just like using the phone. You no longer have to rent or buy the phone company's phone. You are free to by your own at the store and get the same features.


And we all know what happened to the phone company.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

jeffhanson1 said:


> The greedy cable companies was counting on the revenue from rented boxes and tried to 'fix' thing so renting a box was the only way. You lose thanks to the FCC!


much as I am happy to knock cable companies because they do not put customers and service first, you can not fault them for protecting their valuable asset of PPV/VOD. All the OCAP battle is over is trying to maintain their own UI for their PPv/VOD so they can sell it as they see fit.

What they did to protect it was indeed to go way overboard and make it so only their own leased boxes had a chance of being viable on the open market. this has hampered TiVo as they struggled through the Cable card jungle to produce a viable HD dual tuner model but TiVo has hung tough :up:
Now if SDV gets out then that satisfies vast majority of TiVo owners.
I think the S4 is more for selling purposes (can do anything the cable DVR can do and the cable company drones can no longer diss it on the service calls)

Frankly if my S3 can get all the cable channels and do digital OTA I see little need for an S4 - might get 1 for main TV if the price is right or just use a cable box since it is VOD anyway, why waste space recording it 

The only way an S4 would interest me is if TiVo somehow genuised up a way to include VOD offerings in the Universal Swivel Search and I would see all the ways a particular show or whatever is available


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## Luke M (Nov 5, 2002)

jeffhanson1 said:


> The greedy cable companies was counting on the revenue from rented boxes and tried to 'fix' thing so renting a box was the only way. You lose thanks to the FCC! It's even more surprising and appalling because they are doing it in the face of strong competition from satellite. This was just one of the reasons people have been cancelling their cable.


This is silly. The beneficiaries of proprietary cable boxes are the vendors, not cable. On your theory, cable should hate DOCSIS and prefer proprietary cable modems.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

If they can solve SDV with a dongle that's all I really need. I'd love to get PPV directly from my TiVo but for the once a month or so I order a UFC fight, it's just not that much trouble to call Comcast and order it on the phone. You just tell them to authorize "all boxes" and then you can watch it on your TiVo. I also have a Comcast Box that I use for VOD, but now that I have Amazon Unbox I don't see as much a need for it.


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