# DirecTV/TiVo to update DTivos. (See they haven't completely given up on DTiVo)



## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1034357&highlight=



> EL SEGUNDO & ALVISO, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--July 31, 2007--DIRECTV, Inc. (NYSETV), the nation's leading satellite television service provider, and TiVo Inc. (NASDAQ:TIVO), the creator of and a leader in television services for digital video recorders (DVR), will develop a software upgrade to enhance the user experience for DIRECTV customers who have DIRECTV DVRs with TiVo(R) service built on the Series2(TM) platform.
> 
> Launching in early 2008, the new software download will provide these customers with DVR enhancements offered with the TiVo service, including a Recently Deleted Folder and Overlap Protection(TM), as well as DIRECTV's Remote Booking feature. In addition, DIRECTV and TiVo will continue to explore ways to bring future enhancements to DIRECTV customers with TiVo receivers.
> 
> ...


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## ericL (Jan 6, 2002)

Hey, 
Can anyone fill us in as to what these features are? I've settled into a nice equilibrium with my DTivos and haven't been paying attention to stuff for a while. 

thanks.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

Hmm HME maybe?


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

Oh and has Liberty Media taken over yet? Or is Rupert still holding the Turd Bird?


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

> "...we look forward to exploring additional opportunities with TiVo..."


Hummmmmmmm.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Gunnyman said:


> Oh and has Liberty Media taken over yet? Or is Rupert still holding the Turd Bird?


The "stock swap" has not been completed yet.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

by the way Earl, glad you still peek in from time to time


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Man, I realize it's just a tiny glimmer of hope, but still, that's good news!


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

if this means we can register our TSN's on Tivo's website, that's a step in the right direction.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Gunnyman said:


> by the way Earl, glad you still peek in from time to time




TCF is still a "sibling site"... can't let the family go...


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## 94SupraTT (Feb 17, 2005)

Excellent news.


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## rhuntington3 (May 1, 2001)

I guess I should have bought a Series 2 at some point. Oh well, my Series 1 is still working fine!


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

So three new items coming to Series 2 ...

- a Recently Deleted Folder 
- Overlap Protection(TM)
- DIRECTV's Remote Booking feature


I know what the first is, have an idea on the second (soft padding?), but have never heard of the last new feature. Is this remote online scheduling?


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## 94SupraTT (Feb 17, 2005)

drew2k said:


> So three new items coming to Series 2 ...
> 
> - a Recently Deleted Folder
> - Overlap Protection(TM)
> ...


Got this from tivolovers.com

Remote booking...


> DIRECTV, Inc. (NYSETV), the nations leading satellite television service provider, and TiVo Inc. (NASDAQ:TIVO), the creator of and a leader in television services for digital video recorders (DVR), will develop a software upgrade to enhance the user experience for DIRECTV customers who have DIRECTV DVRs with TiVo(R) service built on the Series2(TM) platform.
> 
> Launching in early 2008, the new software download will provide these customers with DVR enhancements offered with the TiVo service, including a Recently Deleted Folder and Overlap Protection(TM), as well as DIRECTVs Remote Booking feature. In addition, DIRECTV and TiVo will continue to explore ways to bring future enhancements to DIRECTV customers with TiVo receivers.
> 
> *Remote Booking is basically online scheduling, so it sounds like the USB ports might be enabled for networking* - unless they plan to rely on the phone line. But using the network is much more responsive and makes for a better feature. That could open the door for more network-based features, like music & photos, HME, TTG, etc. But I wouldnt hold my breath for those just yet, not after it took this long for DirecTV to adopt just these features. Still, this is a good sign - and maybe lends some more hope to a real reconciliation between DirecTV and TiVo once Liberty Media assumes control of DTV.


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## hyde76 (Jan 7, 2003)

It's like X-mas in July all over again!


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## jmoak (Jun 20, 2000)

Back in the days when Newscorp took over Directv, I actually worked for News in a dth teleport for SkyBrazil, SkyLA and SkyMexico (Televisa) here in florida. Some of the development for the nds box was being done in their Miami Lakes facility in conjunction with other nds products in development at the time. I kept hearing "Too unstable" and "Too expensive" when I asked about it. Heck, I even posted on this board (as much as I could) that things just weren't all that rosy with the new nds box. No one I knew felt that directv would sign off on the durn thing. Then after the race for the "low cost" unit and tivo delivered the r10 platform that came in on time and _supposedly_ under cost, everybody thought it was all wrapped up, especially since the nds box was way late and (rumored) way over cost..

Boy was I wrong.

_Dead wrong._

Anouncments were made, stories started coming out:

DirectTV Dumps TiVo
DirecTV: TiVo-less DirecTV In October
Carey Confirms DirecTV Will Cease Marketing TiVo
NDS Threaten TiVo with DirecTV PVR
DirecTV To Develop TiVo Rival!
DirecTV Dumping TiVo
DirecTV makes moves to drop TiVo
DirecTV sells its TiVo stake 
News Corp's NDS is the anti-TiVo 
TiVo dented by DirecTV move
DirecTV touts potential TiVo rival

Then, a year or so later, we get what we thought was a little ray of hope ...

"On April 12, 2006 they entered an agreement to allow existing DirecTV customers using the TiVo digital video recorder to continue to receive maintenance and support from DirecTV. As part of the agreement, TiVo and DirecTV also said they wouldn't sue each other over patent rights."

But, alas, the experts shot down any hope we may have had:


> Murray Arenson, an analyst at Ferris Baker Watts, cautioned that the DirecTV contract extension doesn't indicate that the satellite TV provider has changed its mind about the value of TiVo's product. Instead, it's an admission by DirecTV that it needs more time to transition its customers beyond the 2007 cutoff date, he said.
> 
> Ultimately, TiVo will likely end up in a worse position from this deal, since it now seems unlikely that DirecTV will license intellectual property from TiVo, he said.


http://news.com.com/TiVo+and+DirecTV+extend+contract/2100-1038_3-6060475.html

And now we are told something _completely_ different!

Supposedly, the release of this "DVR enhancement" is timed just _One Year Before The End_ of what was touted as an agreement simply just to cover directv's butt on possible patent litigation!

And this isn't just some service/maintance release, *they're supposedly adding enhancements and new features!!!*



It's like the live-in that breaks up with you, tells you to get out and six months later, just as you're moving the last almost forgotten box out of the attic, the hurt and pain finally over and you're finally moving on, she looks at you and coyly suggests that you stay over and share a bottle of wine or something, all the while fluttering her eyes the way she use to!!!!!

Bless her heart, I gotta take my box and go. I can't go through that again!

.... at least not today.

maybe tomorrow.

maybe.


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## jmoak (Jun 20, 2000)

OH!!

By the way,

Thank you, Earl, for giving us the word.

I appreciate it.


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## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

jmoak said:


> OH!!
> 
> By the way,
> 
> ...


+1 but Earl this better not be a false hope thread as you will feel the rath Of BBB


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## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

Great News but:



ebonovic said:


> DIRECTV DVRs with TiVo(R) service built on the Series2(TM) platform


What of us all with the Series 1 units. If they can update all the Series 2's why not the Series 1 units too.



94SupraTT said:


> sounds like the USB ports might be enabled for networking


Its about time Directv enabled its USB Ports on all units be they Directv or Directv/Tivo units. Why the need to put them there in the first place without enabling them seems senseless. This is one reason why the Tivo units where so much better - Home Networking. If Directv pulls it off, and has something along the lines of TTG etc, it would be very welcome by all Directv users.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Billy Bob Boy said:


> +1 but Earl this better not be a false hope thread as you will feel the rath Of BBB


I don't think it is going to be a false hope, hence thre reason not to mention any of it until the deal was done (and the press release issued)

As for me giving you all the news... not really "correct" this time..
This was off the press release... and in fact others where here a few minutes after me posting the same stuff...


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## jmoak (Jun 20, 2000)

awww, yeah, but it's just better hearing it from you, dude.

Your directv contacts are better than mine ever were!


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

wolflord11 said:


> What of us all with the Series 1 units. If they can update all the Series 2's why not the Series 1 units too.


Even the series 1 standalone boxes never progressed past the 4.x software.


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## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

You all better get your phone lines ready  The update comes from the sat but the phone activate. :up:


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## lancelot (Jul 8, 2006)

Well, perhaps Directv finally gets it--that many of us are with Directv because of TIVO--that the HR20 and R15 have caused them countless returns and countless calls due to lock ups, missed recordings, and other problems. The minute (if/when) Directv comes out with new Directivos, my Hr20s are being shipped back.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

Billy Bob Boy said:


> You all better get your phone lines ready  The update comes from the sat but the phone activate. :up:


unless you know how to do it manually


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## Clarkey (Dec 29, 2004)

Why they would announce a plan to provide a future software update to hardware that will eventually be useless with the MPEG4 stream is beyond me. At least, that's how I see it (I could be wrong). In saying that...

Imagine two DVR options, a "premium" (DirecTiVo) unit for say $9.99 and the current "generic" offerings for $5.99?


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

Clarkey said:


> Why they would announce a plan to provide a future software update to hardware that will eventually be useless with the MPEG4 stream is beyond me. At least, that's how I see it (I could be wrong). In saying that...


Because the standard definition stream is not MPEG-4


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

The "remote booking" feature could be delivered over the satellite and not require a network connection. There would be no way to confirm it (unless the satellite info triggered a call). I doubt that DirecTV will enable the USB ports, but I'd love to be proved wrong.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

One thing to remember: before you all read "into it" too much...

It is in both DirecTV's and TiVo, Inc's best intrest to keep those 4,000,000ish SA TiVo subscribers....

There probably isn't a lot of cost involved in upgrading these SD DTiVos and keeping them running for a while to come... at least until their HardDrives start to die.

The HD version... even with this upgrade (which I don't know if it is going to happen to the HR10-250), no software update will allow it to see the other two sats and decode the MPEG-4... 

And to design, build, test, deploy a new System... which you imagin would have to be updated to support all the current New and proposed DirecTV features (Interactive, VOD, MRV, Media Sharing, and others)... it would cost a LOT of $$$$ and time to do so...


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## Clarkey (Dec 29, 2004)

rminsk said:


> Because the standard definition stream is not MPEG-4


I thought over time, "everything" would be done via MPEG4. Or am I confusing the type of compression with instead HD broadcasts replacing SD broadcasts?


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

Clarkey said:


> I thought over time, "everything" would be done via MPEG4. Or am I confusing the type of compression with instead HD broadcasts replacing SD broadcasts?


For the foreseeable future standard definition will remain mpeg-2. The cost to DirecTV to replace millions of standard definition receivers would be to large.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Good news for Series 2 DirecTivos. Have 2 myself.



wolflord11 said:


> Its about time Directv enabled its USB Ports on all units be they Directv or Directv/Tivo units. Why the need to put them there in the first place without enabling them seems senseless. This is one reason why the Tivo units where so much better - Home Networking.


Just an FYI that that HR20 has been networked enabled for some time, nearly since release. The R15 however isn't.


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## kschauwe (Sep 17, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> The "stock swap" has not been completed yet.


They better hurry, Rupert is buying Dow Jones.


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

ebonovic said:


> The "stock swap" has not been completed yet.


I'm afraid it's going to happen, eb. The Golden Age of DirecTV under the inspired leadership of the FoxMaster is coming to a conclusion.

We'll all understand if you want to take a few days off, to come to terms with it, get yourself together.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Redux said:


> I'm afraid it's going to happen, eb. The Golden Age of DirecTV under the inspired leadership of the FoxMaster is coming to a conclusion.
> 
> We'll all understand if you want to take a few days off, to come to terms with it, get yourself together.


Why is there a "afraid it's going to happen".... 
When have I ever given the impression that I am worried about it?
It has been well known, for almost a year that this was going on...
At the end of the day... it is just stocks and money...

This isn't the local Mom/Pop shop being bought up by a larger company.
This is swap of stocks, to someone that has a history of changing his holdings... 
Liberty Media Corporation, has it's hands in a lot of different "pies"....

You are under the impresion that Malone is going to move into the top office at DirecTV in LA, and start to oversee and control the daily operations... and make sweeping changes.

But I am afraid, that you are still under delusion that the company is going to an about face, once that stock swap has completed....

It has already been stated, the people responsible for DirecTV Group... are still the same people.

So come to grips with the fact that DirecTV is just a company, that has share holders... and has a board... that will discuss the EXACT SAME pro's and con's of forging a new relationship with TiVo that has been around for a while now.

It is possible that you should take a few days... to collect your thoughts, to come to grips on reality of the situation... not wishfull thinking.


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## Tivoli (Jan 24, 2002)

Ereth said:


> Man, I realize it's just a tiny glimmer of hope, but still, that's good news!


I think it is little more than glimmer, I think it is a sign of things to come, much more significant. I want to hear about a new HD Tivo DVR for DTV :up: :up: :up:


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Tivoli said:


> I think it is little more than glimmer, I think it is a sign of things to come, much more significant. I want to hear about a new HD Tivo DVR for DTV :up: :up: :up:


Similar statements where made when the contract was extended, and the 6.x software updates were released.....

Could the third time be the charm? Or the final piece to the story...


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## Tivoli (Jan 24, 2002)

ebonovic said:


> Similar statements where made when the contract was extended, and the 6.x software updates were released.....
> 
> Could the third time be the charm? Or the final piece to the story...


Yes, I hope third time is the charm. I'd not want to read too much into this:



> *... and we look forward to exploring additional opportunities with TiVo," said Derek Chang, executive vice president, Content Strategy and Development for DIRECTV, Inc.*


But it is one indication that there is more to it. The words were spoken by VP of Content strategy, it may mean content via the net? Amazon?, or may be ad content? Or all things Tivo technology can offer. It makes sense in terms of business. DTV is in business to make money and they do not need to include NDS in the equation, which clouded the picture for DTV before. Now DTV can play without being tied to NDS, offer more options and let the market choose the best DVR.

Another point to keep in mind is Tivo patents, (against which the previous agreement gave an insurance to DTV, until 2010). Once that is settled it is going to be a different landscape in DVR world.


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## tbeckner (Oct 26, 2001)

ebonovic said:


> Similar statements where made when the contract was extended, and the 6.x software updates were released.....
> 
> Could the third time be the charm? Or the final piece to the story...


Earl,

Remember my post of a little over a week ago,

_But then again, "Patience is a virtue!" or "Good things come to those who wait!".

...

"Patience is a virtue. The ability to wait for something without excessive frustration is a valuable character trait. The proverb has been traced back to 'Piers Plowman' (1377) by William Langland and is similar to the Latin, Maxima enim..patientia virtus (Patience is the greatest virtue) and the French, Patience est une grant vertu. (Patience is a great value.) Some ten years after Langland, Chaucer wrote in 'The Canterbury Tales' (1386) that 'Patience is a high virtue.' Sometimes followed by the wry rejoinder 'but virtue can hurt you.' First cited in the United States in 1724 in the 'Works of Thomas Chalkley' (1766)..." _

Of course, this could be the first step of many to come.

A week ago even you ("the Great Earl") wouldn't have predicted this, would you?

I believe this is more in-line towards realizing that "TiVo" and Comcast, Moxi, and others are just around the corner in the cable world, and there are still many more DirecTiVos installed than all of the other DirecTV DVR's and will be for many years to come.

It is very unlikely that the DirecTV DVR will even come close to 10% of all DirecTV DVR's installed within the foreseeable future, so the DirecTiVos are going to be around for a long time, and somebody at DirecTV finally woke up.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

tbeckner said:


> Earl,
> 
> Remember my post of a little over a week ago,
> 
> ...


Yes, I remember a your post... and again... I am not knocking the additions of the features... it is a great thing for those 2.5 (or is 4) million SD DTiVos out there.

As for the population of DirecTV DVR's... Not sure where you are getting that number... but there are definitively more than that installed. Hopefully a number will be provided in the quarterly update next week.

As for me predicting it:
Actually... a week ago... I would have... two weeks ago... no..


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

I'm betting the nice hidden feature will be copy protection and copy flag obedience.


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## tbeckner (Oct 26, 2001)

ebonovic said:


> Yes, I remember a your post... and again... I am not knocking the additions of the features... it is a great thing for those 2.5 (or is 4) million SD DTiVos out there.
> 
> As for the population of DirecTV DVR's... Not sure where you are getting that number... but there are definitively more than that installed. Hopefully a number will be provided in the quarterly update next week.
> 
> ...


So, are you predicting over 400,000 DirecTV DVR's? R15's and HR20's? Possible but unlikely. Of course, that would still only be a little over 10%.

And it appears that the R15's have already been orphaned, haven't they?

I believe that the $299 SA TiVo HD has played a somewhat staring role in all of this.

IMHO, this is great news for un-hacked DirecTiVos owners, but there is nothing to get excited about for the owners of hacked DirecTiVos.

If the news had included HMO (TiVoToGo and MRV) and some of the other SA TiVo features (not already available via hacks), then there would be something to get excited about, but the features announced are mostly available through hacks.

TiVo of course has not yet released manual NEGATIVE PADDING, which still appears to be a better option than "Overlap Protection(TM)".

And how about "Universal Swivel Search", IMHO that would be a better addition than "Remote Booking".


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## tbeckner (Oct 26, 2001)

Arcady said:


> I'm betting the nice hidden feature will be copy protection and copy flag obedience.


When you get something for nothing there might always be something that is taken away. Who knows?


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

tbeckner said:


> So, are you predicting over 400,000 DirecTV DVR's? R15's and HR20's? Possible but unlikely. Of course, that would still only be a little over 10%.


Call it predicting if you want...



tbeckner said:


> And it appears that the R15's have already been orphaned, haven't they?


What makes you say that?
They all are receiving software updates, and have been actively part of the CE program for the last two months.

And the latest CE version, has started to introduce new features... and I full expect more features to be introduced to the R15 platform in the comming weeks.


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## mikesown (Nov 15, 2005)

This may be wishful thinking, but I think Tivo has a shot at coming back on directv. Cable tivos are (in my opinion) much too overpriced. The Tivo HD appeals to me a lot at the $260 mark(from circuit city, with discount), but $16 a month is a total ripoff if I have to splurge for the device, THEN make a one year commitment AND spend $16 a month. I could see getting a free box, spending maybe $10 a month on service and making a 1 year commitment(maybe 2), but the current system is outrageous. By contrast, DirecTV charges just $5.99 a month for dvr service and they'll give you a free DVR if you ask for it. For Directv, I see this as an amazing deal: $1 a month per dvr subscriber nets them as many software updates as they want. Not such a great deal for Tivo, compared to the $16 a month they get for standalones, but an amazing deal for DirecTV.


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## dmurphy (Jan 17, 2002)

Billy Bob Boy said:


> +1 but Earl this better not be a false hope thread as you will feel the rath Of BBB


Why would the Better Business Bureau come down on Earl?


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

tbeckner said:


> So, are you predicting over 400,000 DirecTV DVR's? R15's and HR20's? Possible but unlikely. Of course, that would still only be a little over 10%.


Huh? The R15 has been the only SD DVR available from DirecTV for 2 years now. There are probably as many of them out there as DirecTivo's.
As for HR20s, I think it's pretty clear there are as many of them out as the HR10, of which only about 600K were out there.

Note that neither statement is anything bad or against Tivo, it's just you must remember that most people get the DVR the company gives them for free when they sign up. Thus there are a lot of them out there because very few "Joe Sixpacks" are going to go out and try to find a DirecTivo somewhere. They don't even know they exist.


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## dmurphy (Jan 17, 2002)

ebonovic said:


> Yes, I remember a your post... and again... I am not knocking the additions of the features... it is a great thing for those 2.5 (or is 4) million SD DTiVos out there.
> 
> As for the population of DirecTV DVR's... Not sure where you are getting that number... but there are definitively more than that installed. Hopefully a number will be provided in the quarterly update next week.
> 
> ...


I'm too lazy to look it up, but I'd be curious as to what percentage of TiVo devices that are active are DirecTiVo devices. (i.e. TiVo has 5m customers, 4m of which are DTiVo's).

Frankly, it wouldn't surprise me to see DirecTV purchase TiVo outright at some point. It makes a certain degree of sense - they'd have access to the entire patent portfolio, to the TiVo software and engineers, and frankly, some large percentage of TiVo customers are already DirecTV customers.

If I were running the DirecTV ship, I'd wait for TiVo to be in serious trouble (even more than now - when was the last time they spun a profit?) and then buy them for pennies on the dollar.


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## Sevenfeet (Jun 24, 2000)

mikesown said:


> This may be wishful thinking, but I think Tivo has a shot at coming back on directv. Cable tivos are (in my opinion) much too overpriced. The Tivo HD appeals to me a lot at the $260 mark(from circuit city, with discount), but $16 a month is a total ripoff if I have to splurge for the device, THEN make a one year commitment AND spend $16 a month. I could see getting a free box, spending maybe $10 a month on service and making a 1 year commitment(maybe 2), but the current system is outrageous. By contrast, DirecTV charges just $5.99 a month for dvr service and they'll give you a free DVR if you ask for it. For Directv, I see this as an amazing deal: $1 a month per dvr subscriber nets them as many software updates as they want. Not such a great deal for Tivo, compared to the $16 a month they get for standalones, but an amazing deal for DirecTV.


It is wishful thinking but not completely out of the realm of possibility. The statement in the press release about "exploring future opportunities" does not sound like two companies looking to run out the clock on their contract. The fact that they are doing this at all, much less in 2008 is curious to say the least. I have a Series 1 and Series 2 DirecTivos and had pretty much scaled back my DirecTV subscription to the lowest level (Family) since DirecTV still has some channels on that tier my local Comcast does not. Most of my money goes to Comcast now using my Series 3 Tivos (two of them). If DirecTV had made a committment to Tivo years ago, my situation with them would be different.


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## lancelot (Jul 8, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Huh? The R15 has been the only SD DVR available from DirecTV for 2 years now. .


Not exactly true. Right now, Circuit City is selling NIB Directivos for $78 on its website.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Some numbers.

From the 1st Qtr 2006 financial call: http://media.seekingalpha.com/article/10151

They estimated to have just north of 250,000 HR10's in the market and predicted that they would add a bit more since the MPEG4 DVR wasn't out yet. So 600K HR10s is actually way high on my part. Probably more like 300K maybe 350K but that's pushing it. That's not all that many. I think it's pretty safe to say there are at least half that in HR20's out there active, probably close to the same HR10 number.

I'm trying to dig up SD numbers but I'm pretty sure I remember the number 2.5 million and dropping tossed around in an earnings call the past year or so.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

lancelot said:


> Not exactly true. Right now, Circuit City is selling NIB Directivos for $78 on its website.


Well, as I said later in my post, vast majority of people take whatever DirecTV gives them for free. Which would be the R15. Certainly there are still some DirecTivo's out there in the channel, but not many at all.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

lancelot said:


> Not exactly true. Right now, Circuit City is selling NIB Directivos for $78 on its website.


I am actually intrested in how many of those Circuit City has...
The reason being... is that particular model, has not been produced for almost 2 years now (since the R10's release... which was release 2 years ago).

So either they haven't been selling that well for the last two years.... or they had a MASSIVE warehouse full of them.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

And now some SD DirecTivo numbers.

From the 4th quarter 2005 conference call. Note that 4th quarter 05 is when the R15 was released and the DirecTivo's were no longer available from DirecTV with the free installs (which most people take).

http://media.seekingalpha.com/article/6718

The had a total of 2.5 million DVR subs in total. Of which 200-250K were HR10s (the next quarter as posted above there was 250K HR10s). So 2.25-2.3 million SD DVR subs. Unclear if this is the number of boxes, sounds not. So maybe 4 million actual DVRs (although I can't find that number anywhere), 2.5 million total subs.

It was also mentioned that they activated 400K new DVR boxes that quarter, 2/3 of which were Tivo so already 1/3 at that time were the R15. Again, vast majority of subs just take whatever their provider sends them which after this time was the R15.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

So now we have some solid numbers for those that want to discuss these things.

At it's height there were around 2.5 million subs with some sort of DirecTivo, maybe just a touch higher since the HR20 didn't come out until 3 quarters later.

Current total DirecTV subs now approach 16.5 million.

Also in one of the conference calls it was stated about 9-10% of their sub base have some sort of HD receiver.

So there are the numbers in all their glory.


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## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

dmurphy said:


> Why would the Better Business Bureau come down on Earl?


No silly its Big Blonde Boobies


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## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> Just an FYI that that HR20 has been networked enabled for some time, nearly since release. The R15 however isn't.


I do know the HR20 is Networked enabled. But thank you 

I was talking about the R15, the D11, D12 ALL Directv units with USB Ports.


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## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

tbeckner said:


> And it appears that the R15's have already been orphaned, haven't they?


Maybe you should be telling Directv that. 

The R15 is the current Free DVR they give in their DVR package, and has been for awhile now. It is the only SD DVR Directv has.

Also as Earl has mentioned: New updates coming for the R15.

So your Statement is totally out of wack. The only way the R15 is going to die is when Directv goes to all Mpeg4 programming, doing away with Mpeg2, which maybe some Day will happen.

BUT when that does happen, it will also kill many many other units, such as the D10's, all earlier Directv units etc. A very costly upgrade


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## spahn (Mar 5, 2005)

is it possible that if things get ironed out with tivo that they will push the tivo software out to the HR-20, thus overriding the directv proprietary software? much like tivo is attempting to do with the comcast hd dvrs?


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## jmoak (Jun 20, 2000)

wolflord11 said:


> The R15 is the current Free DVR they give in their DVR package, and has been for awhile now. It is the only SD DVR Directv has.


Which begs the question,

Why in the heck is directv expending time, money and resources to roll out new features and functionality on a self-proclaimed depracated platform?

Logically, you'd think that they may be re-thinking the "R15 is the only SD DVR Directv has" stance.

but anytime I've tried to use common sense and logic to figure out what directv was going to do, I've been dead wrong.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

jmoak said:


> Which begs the question,
> 
> Why in the heck is directv expending time, money and resources to roll out new features and functionality on a self-proclaimed depracated platform?
> 
> ...


Since it is most TiVo's time (They do the software development), and it is possible covered already under the contract and $$$ aspects of that contract, and the rollout of the update is also done by TiVo... so minimally it would be resources to test it....

Why not? Why not improve the ~4,000,000 SD DTiVos out there....
There is no overwhelming reason for them to be turned off... so why not make them better...

The R15 is still the only SD-DVR that a new subscriber can get... unless they wanted to go the used route (or take the chance that some vendor has a new one lying around).


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

In a perfect world, all TiVo's would play nice together.

We'd log onto TiVo.com and see our standalone TiVo's, our S3's, and our DirecTV TiVo's all listed there.
We'd be able to schedule recordings, check for conflicts, heck, even have cooperative scheduling across all TiVo's on our account.

We'd have multi room viewing available for all our TiVo's, regardless of manufacturerer.

Conversely, we'd have the same ability on DirecTV.com.

All of this available out of the box, no hacking or cracking required.


phox


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## jmoak (Jun 20, 2000)

ebonovic said:


> Since it is most TiVo's time (They do the software development), and it is possible covered already under the contract and $$$ aspects of that contract, and the rollout of the update is also done by TiVo... so minimally it would be resources to test it....


So Tivo covers all the costs except for the resources to test it? Wow! 


ebonovic said:


> Why not? Why not improve the ~4,000,000 SD DTiVos out there....
> There is no overwhelming reason for them to be turned off... so why not make them better...


Another Wow! I thought there were only a little more than 2.6 million dtivo subs left! 
And Why Not?? Why not last year! I can't fuss, though. Better late than never, eh?
As far as turning them off, the expert analysts were the only ones who were prophesizing that one last year. They were also the ones who were saying that directv would not allow any new tivo features on the dtivo boxes in order to make their inhouse dvr look better.

It IS nice to see that the experts can be wrong every once in a while.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

2.6mil Subscribers... but a lot of subscribers have more then 1 unit.


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## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

ebonovic said:


> 2.6mil Subscribers... but a lot of subscribers have more then 1 unit.


Yes most have atleast 2 if not more units. So 4.0 Mil DTivos would be a Fair number to say.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Yup. I am one sub and have 2 HDVR2s, and 2 HR10s. One sub with four DTiVos.

My mother is one sub and has 1 R10, 1 R15, and 2 HDVR2s. So she's one sub with three DTiVos.


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## hyde76 (Jan 7, 2003)

wolflord11 said:


> Yes most have atleast 2 if not more units. So 4.0 Mil DTivos would be a Fair number to say.


I have three HDVR2's and I'm not buying a HD panel until I can get a HD MPEG4 DTivo to attach them to. So my Standard Def signal is not 1080p. It's been fine for as long as I've been watching TV and it'll continue to be fine for many years to come. Or until the living room TV breaks.


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## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

So there you go: 4 Subscribers above (including drew2K's Mother) and 12 Directv/Tivo units.

So the 4 Million DTivo's is probally a lower Count than the actual number out there


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## tbeckner (Oct 26, 2001)

wolflord11 said:


> Maybe you should be telling Directv that.
> 
> 
> tbeckner said:
> ...


Notice that my statement was not a statement but a question, there was a question mark at end of that sentence.

The reason I was asking that as a question, is because it has already been pointed out that the R15 would not have networking activated and other functions that are being added to the HR20 are NOT slated to be added to the R15, so that information begged the question is the R15 already orphaned? 

In addition, some of the functions originally announced as being available for the R15 never showed up, but are on the HR20.

Since the R15 and HR20 were part of Murdoch's plan and Murdoch is disappearing, and if the new owners reactivate DirecTV's longer-term DVR relationship with TiVo, then it appears to me that it is very likely that the current R15 and HR20 would both end up being orphaned, because I don't believe that they could ever compete with the TiVo DVRs in quality and functionallity, and DirecTV needs a quality DVR to compete with cable long-term.



I noticed in previous posts that people are counting TiVo/DVRs based upon subscribers, so if anyone is counting, I have 5 DirecTiVos (All hacked with expanded live buffers and MRV), 2 Standalone TiVos, and a TiVo HD on the way, which is 7 DVR's and soon 8.

For DirecTV purposes, that is 5 TiVos for one subscriber, but if everything goes as planned, as soon as MRV (and maybe TiVoToGo) is released for the TiVo HD, then more TiVo HD boxes are planned and DirecTV (without a workable TiVo HD DVR with MRV) after almost 13 years could soon come to an end and I will finally return to cable with a TiVo in HD and with MRV.

Thank God!


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## shanew1289 (May 7, 2004)

One subscriber with 4 of them. Damn addicting!


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## jamoke (Oct 5, 2003)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/zd/20070801/tc_zd/212700;_ylt=AoIom9NlMUCK5G364QOY2n9X.3QA

TiVo to Step In and Save DirecTV's DVRs

Mark Hachman - ExtremeTech 
Wed Aug 1, 1:54 PM ET

Is the love back? It appears so. TiVo said this week that it will develop a software upgrade for DirecTV Series 2 TiVo-branded DVRs, "to enhance the user experience".

As you might recall, DirecTV essentially severed ties with TiVo to promote its own platform, known as the HR20. We called it "The DVR DirecTV Users Hate to Love," which seems to have been accurate; in multiple threads across the Internet, HR20 users griped, moaned, and otherwise complained -- then told us that they were willing to stick it out.

Now, it appears, the HR20's problems are being tacitly acknowledged.

"Launching in early 2008, the new software download will provide these customers with DVR enhancements offered with the TiVo service, including a Recently Deleted Folder and Overlap Protection, as well as DirecTV's Remote Booking feature," the companies said in a statement. " In addition, DirecTV and TiVo will continue to explore ways to bring future enhancements to DirecTV customers with TiVo receivers."


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

How does such inaccurate writing get picked up as actual news? Unreal.


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## Bonanzaair (Aug 26, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> How does such inaccurate writing get picked up as actual news? Unreal.


It's amazing how much bull gets flung here too. Good to see DirecTV back on board again.

Bonanza


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## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

jamoke said:


> http://news.yahoo.com/s/zd/20070801/tc_zd/212700;_ylt=AoIom9NlMUCK5G364QOY2n9X.3QA
> 
> TiVo to Step In and Save DirecTV's DVRs
> 
> ...


I have a Glimmer of hope but it is a tiny glimmer. When Tivo and D* reup the contract to 2015 I will have allot more hope. IMHO It is still not !00% Hope as we as the laymen simply reading releases havent got a ding dang clue of what is going on. For all we know Tivo is trying to simply squeeze all they can out of an empty tube of toothpaste. (I would think Tivo will get something nfrom D* For this upgrade) If Tivo and D* are going to survive they need to sign Up for more time.

For Me I am going to ignore all the crap going on in this thread cause it is all speculation as far as i am concerned. Even if someone claims to be working for tivo or D* I will truly believe when I go to Circuit City to buy my Hr10-300(  )(If Only) And Hopefully D* will abandon this stupid Lease crap(  )If Only

I cant see any reason Why R15,hr20 cant exist side by side with say hr10-300 and S3 directivos If liberty were smart this is what they will do.(  )If Only

BBB Slowly backs out of this Thread


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

Could there be some connection between this news and Malone taking over?
If we only knew whether Malone has been personally using a Tivo these past few years. 
Directvs' decision to sever it's relationship with Tivo might well have been triggered by Murdoch. After all we've read about him that would hardly be surprising.


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## grecorj (Feb 6, 2002)

DirecTV cut ties with TiVo when Murdoch took over because he owns a company -- NDS -- that makes a DVR for his European satellite company, SkyTV.
More info here.


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## feldon23 (Mar 13, 2001)

Here's what I posted on Wired news in the comments.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

In 2003, Rupert Murdoch acquired DirecTV. His first action was to destroy the relationship between DirecTV and TiVo by giving his NDS subsidiary an impossible task -- copy the TiVo in 18 months and make it the de facto DVR for DirecTV.

They did it, albeit missing a few release dates, and it STINKS. It's quirky, buggy, and has none of the user interface innovations of the TiVo. Meanwhile, TiVo has made huge leaps in functionality, allowing shows to be played on your PC, pictures, mp3s, and videos from your PC to be played on TiVo, networking between TiVos to allow shows to be watched remotely, and remote scheduling. The DirecTV DVR eschews any networking with household PCs or other devices.

And last fall, the ill-advised mission of trying to clone TiVo was repeated with the High Definition DVR. It requires frequent reboots and the interface is quirky at best. Meanwhile, the now unsupported TiVo-developed HDTV DirecTV DVR (HR10-250) has been left out in the cold, with access to DirecTV's new HDTV programming cut off as this material is broadcast in MPEG-4 (which the TiVo cannot play back).

All this because Rupert Murdoch considers it life-or-death to "own" the entire physical plant, from the satellites down to every single box that picks up a signal. Ask any Australian about Rupert Murdoch and you'll get a story about how he has kept television technology firmly in the dark ages all to protect the almighty dollar. Murdoch wanted that extra $1 per customer that they'd been paying to TiVo bad!

And then the unthinkable happened. Echostar (Dish Network) lost their patent case against TiVo. They were found to have violated virtually every DVR patent in TiVo's portfolio. Echostar quickly offered a monstrous settlement and DirecTV suddenly renewed their soon-to-expire contract with TiVo.

End result? DirecTV wasted 3 years and millions of dollars developing off-brand TiVos that nobody wants. And now they are beholden to TiVo forever because their DVR will invariably be found to be a TiVo clone in any patent lawsuit. So they're stuck with TiVo whether they want it or not! The huge wave of negativity towards the TiVo clones that DirecTV has foisted upon us readily bubble to the surface at DBSTalk, the home of DirecTV's DVR public beta test program (the public are the beta testers!).

So what does this news article indicate? Since Rupert Murdoch has let go of DirecTV, I believe cooler heads have prevailed at DirecTV and the flames of the smouldering relationship between itself and TiVo are now being fanned. I anxiously await the announcement of an MPEG-4 compatible TiVo-developed DirecTV DVR with all the innovations TiVo has adopted in the last 3 years (and which have not been available to DirecTV customers).

One can only hope.


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## Dkerr24 (Oct 29, 2004)

I guess I'm not excited. I've got 2 zippered DTivo's and unless I could keep the current features I have, I would not be willing to give up being able to view my programs on either DTivo or being able to copy programs to my PC for burning to DVD. Those new features don't seem as important as the two features I enjoy right now.


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## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

feldon23 said:


> Here's what I posted on Wired news in the comments.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> In 2003, Rupert Murdoch acquired DirecTV. His first action was to destroy the relationship between DirecTV and TiVo by giving his NDS subsidiary an impossible task -- copy the TiVo in 18 months and make it the de facto DVR for DirecTV.
> ...


What say you and I get together and punch this guy 4 or 5 times in the face   


> Stanley Rohner
> 
> I'd say it's better than the TiVo DVR. It will record the new HD MPEG4 channels and the TiVo one won't.
> 
> I don't miss the TiVo DVR and neither will you.


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## feldon23 (Mar 13, 2001)

Stanley Rohner said:


> I'd say it's better than the TiVo DVR. It will record the new HD MPEG4 channels and the TiVo one won't.
> 
> I don't miss the TiVo DVR and neither will you.


Clearly has never used a TiVo. And "new is always better"? Do I even have to touch this one? 

Where'd you see this absurd post?


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## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

feldon23 said:


> Clearly has never used a TiVo. And "new is always better"? Do I even have to touch this one?
> 
> Where'd you see this absurd post?


Here. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=361315


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

ebonovic said:


> 2.6mil Subscribers... but a lot of subscribers have more then 1 unit.


That brings an interesting question. I have 2 R-10s, R-15 and HR20. Am I TiVo sub or DirecTV sub? My DVR fee covers both TiVo and non-TiVo DVRs. All of my DVRs are purchased, not leased if it makes a difference. To complicate an issue,
I first purchased R-15 and my initial DVR fee was setup to use it. Two days later I added 2 R-10s, and few months later HR20. Does TiVo get paid for my sub? Does it matter what brand DVR was first on a account?


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

If you have a DirecTV box, ANY box, that runs the TiVo software then TiVo gets paid for the subscription - about $1.11 a month or so as of the last public figures. You're counted as a DirecTV subscriber by DirecTV *and* as a non-TiVo-owned subscriber by TiVo. (TiVo-owned subscribers are standalone box owners who's subscription is directly with TiVo - your sub is with DirecTV and only with TiVo by proxy.)


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

samo said:


> That brings an interesting question. I have 2 R-10s, R-15 and HR20. Am I TiVo sub or DirecTV sub? My DVR fee covers both TiVo and non-TiVo DVRs. All of my DVRs are purchased, not leased if it makes a difference. To complicate an issue,
> I first purchased R-15 and my initial DVR fee was setup to use it. Two days later I added 2 R-10s, and few months later HR20. Does TiVo get paid for my sub? Does it matter what brand DVR was first on a account?


You are both...
Part of your DVR fee would be going to TiVo

TiVo get's their "share" of the DVR fee, if you have atleast 1 DTiVo installed and enabled.


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## Bonanzaair (Aug 26, 2006)

ebonovic said:


> You are both...
> Part of your DVR fee would be going to TiVo
> 
> TiVo get's their "share" of the DVR fee, if you have atleast 1 DTiVo installed and enabled.


I wouldn't call $1.11 their share, but a contract is a contract. Hope Tom doesn't give away the farm this next contract.

Bonanza


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Bonanzaair said:


> I wouldn't call $1.11 their share, but a contract is a contract. Hope Tom doesn't give away the farm this next contract.
> 
> Bonanza


"Share" of the DVR Service fee, that is defined by the contract.
The "contract" didn't dictate the DVR Service fee (As a whole), it only dictated what TiVo was to get per subscription of a TiVo on DirecTV (with regards to share)


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

Bonanzaair said:


> Hope Tom doesn't give away the farm this next contract.


Compared to what DirecTV charges, throwing $1.11 to TiVo is so small it's ludicrous. Whoever negotiated that deal for DirecTV should have been given a *huge* bonus. It'll probably be "water cooler" talk at DirecTV for the next 20 years!


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## dtremain (Jan 5, 2004)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Compared to what DirecTV charges, throwing $1.11 to TiVo is so small it's ludicrous. Whoever negotiated that deal for DirecTV should have been given a *huge* bonus. It'll probably be "water cooler" talk at DirecTV for the next 20 years!


I disagree. TiVo is getting about 18% of the $6 DVR charge as a royalty for their software. That seems like a fair deal all around.


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## RARamaker (Dec 1, 2000)

feldon23 said:


> I anxiously await the announcement of an MPEG-4 compatible TiVo-developed DirecTV DVR with all the innovations TiVo has adopted in the last 3 years (and which have not been available to DirecTV customers).


I think you are more likely to see TiVo software on the HR20 than a completely new box if the DirecTV/TiVo relationship is restored. This would preserve DirecTV's investment in the HR20 hardware. Remember, TiVo is a software company that reluctantly designs hardware for contract manufacturers to produce.

Russ


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

I dunno how hard would it be to modify the series 3 to accept a smart card as well as/instead of a cable card?


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

dtremain said:


> I disagree. TiVo is getting about 18% of the $6 DVR charge as a royalty for their software. That seems like a fair deal all around.


For my household DirecTV only pays TiVo their paltry $1.11 (or thereabouts) for the *entire* household. Yet DirecTV gets an extra $15 from me for the three extra boxes I added only because of TiVo. Your analysis doesn't take that into account. I wouldn't have 4 active boxes in one house unless they were DVRs. I wouldn't have 2 boxes in one family room unless they were DVRs. What would be the point?


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