# New Netgear ReadyNAS Ultra Ties to TiVo, Orb



## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

Found this on the Yahoo site, sound like this can be use as an attach storage device to the TiVo.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/zd/20100709/tc_zd/252611

Like the WD My DVR drive, the drive is "locked" to a particular TiVo box via a special code and encrypted files. However, the TiVo set-top apparently allows an *unlimited *amount of storage to be used, via the Netgear ReadyNAS drives.


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## SMWinnie (Aug 17, 2002)

Johncv said:


> Found this on the Yahoo site, sound like this can be use as an attach storage device to the TiVo.
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/zd/20100709/tc_zd/252611
> 
> Like the WD My DVR drive, the drive is "locked" to a particular TiVo box via a special code and encrypted files. However, the TiVo set-top apparently allows an *unlimited *amount of storage to be used, via the Netgear ReadyNAS drives.


This sounds to me like the same sort of remote storage/retrieval as HP rolled into their MediaSmart WHS boxes.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

SMWinnie said:


> This sounds to me like the same sort of remote storage/retrieval as HP rolled into their MediaSmart WHS boxes.


It sound better then the HP box, because TiVo working with them, so you will be able to hook this to your TiVoHD. Added another link that someone else posted.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=451820


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Note that the ReadyNAS boxes are "Network Attached Storage" - they live on your home network, and do not connect directly to other devices. I have an older ReadyNAS NV+ which I use for serving music and video in the house. The key here is the ReadyNAS Ultra's ability to participate in TiVo's MRV infrastructure.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

stevel said:


> Note that the ReadyNAS boxes are "Network Attached Storage" - they live on your home network, and do not connect directly to other devices. I have an older ReadyNAS NV+ which I use for serving music and video in the house. The key here is the ReadyNAS Ultra's ability to participate in TiVo's MRV infrastructure.


Yes, you are correct, but this device will be design to hook up the TiVo's Esata port for almost unlimited storage. Six drive bay with two TB drives in each bay I let someone else do the math, but this will depend on how much is use for computer back-up. I dont think this will change the MRV infrastructure unless Netgear and TiVo came up with a legal work around for the copy protection carp. If they did then thing will sell faster then Amazon can take orders even at its inflated price for box with empty drive bays.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Does that make any sense? The way TiVo handles eSATA wouldn't losing your primary TiVo drive still cause you to lose recordings on the paired drive?


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## StanSimmons (Jun 10, 2000)

I wonder if it has an embedded version of TiVo Desktop or pyTivo? That wouldn't require a esata connection.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

StanSimmons said:


> I wonder if it has an embedded version of TiVo Desktop or pyTivo? That wouldn't require a esata connection.


Current ReadyNAS units can already send TiVo programs directly to a TiVo from the NAS unit. They've had that ability for about a year. But some other software is required to copy the content to the NAS unit in the first place.


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## jbernardis (Oct 22, 2003)

Johncv said:


> ... but this device will be design to hook up the TiVo's Esata port ...


I haven't seen anything that definitively says that. In fact, I saw one british article - sorry I can't find the link - that says that readyNAS can share/stream videos with all Tivos on your network. That sounds like a NAS and not an eSata connection to me.

I guess we'll just have to wait until next week when the units start shipping (or at least netgear published some specs) to know for sure.

One thing I DO know is that I have postponed my NAS purchase until I know more about this unit.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

jbernardis said:


> I haven't seen anything that definitively says that. In fact, I saw one british article - sorry I can't find the link - that says that readyNAS can share/stream videos with all Tivos on your network. That sounds like a NAS and not an eSata connection to me.
> 
> I guess we'll just have to wait until next week when the units start shipping (or at least netgear published some specs) to know for sure.
> 
> One thing I DO know is that I have postponed my NAS purchase until I know more about this unit.


There seem to be mix info on this device, this from CNET:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-20010059-56.html?tag=mncol

The one thing that everyone want to know about is this:

*A partnership with TiVo means that the devices can be used to allow TiVo owners to store thousands of hours of television--all accessible from any TiVo box in the house. *

If this is so then how are Netgear and TiVo getting around copy protection?


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Johncv said:


> If this is so then how are Netgear and TiVo getting around copy protection?


As to how things stand now, my guess is that the Tivo will be able to record to this device, and then the device will then be able to stream to any other Tivo on the network.
Maybe it will be directly connected to a Tivo via the e-sata port so the Tivo can record directly to it, and also be connected to the LAN to allow other devices to access it for streaming.
That would certainly fall within the "only one copy" regulations that are imposed on copy protection. Of course access via a computer would have to be limited. There would have to be some measure of protection. It should allow you to add files to it from your computer for your other devices, but not let you pull anything back from it.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Johncv said:


> If this is so then how are Netgear and TiVo getting around copy protection?


Until we know differently, I wouldn't assume that it does.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

steve614 said:


> As to how things stand now, my guess is that the Tivo will be able to record to this device, and then the device will then be able to stream to any other Tivo on the network.
> Maybe it will be directly connected to a Tivo via the e-sata port so the Tivo can record directly to it, and also be connected to the LAN to allow other devices to access it for streaming.
> That would certainly fall within the "only one copy" regulations that are imposed on copy protection. Of course access via a computer would have to be limited. There would have to be some measure of protection. It should allow you to add files to it from your computer for your other devices, but not let you pull anything back from it.


Technically if I remember correctly, the copy once flag lets you move the files. The way TiVo does it doesn't work since it makes a second copy. I don't currently have any flagged content so I don't know if Windows blocks you from physically moving protected files. Then again Windows may do a similar version of TiVo except it deletes the initial copy once it creates the second copy resulting in 2 copies for a split second.


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## jmill (Feb 22, 2010)

from release notes for Netgear ReadyNAS NVX:



> ... support for archiving TiVo videos to the ReadyNAS, allowing you to also playback these videos from any TiVo in your home. The option resides in the Streaming Services page in the ReadyDLNA option. Enabling TiVo option there will reveal options to activate archiving from discovered TiVo devices on your network and setting archive schedule. You will need the Media Access Key (MAK) from your TiVo to perform the activation. Any recording marked as "don't erase" on the TiVo will be archived to the ReadyNAS.


I would assume ReadyNAS Ultra would do the same thing.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

steve614 said:


> As to how things stand now, my guess is that the Tivo will be able to record to this device, and then the device will then be able to stream to any other Tivo on the network.
> Maybe it will be directly connected to a Tivo via the e-sata port so the Tivo can record directly to it, and also be connected to the LAN to allow other devices to access it for streaming.
> That would certainly fall within the "only one copy" regulations that are imposed on copy protection. Of course access via a computer would have to be limited. There would have to be some measure of protection. It should allow you to add files to it from your computer for your other devices, but not let you pull anything back from it.


This is what the Yahoo info implies, but as nrc state we wont know until this thing is release. If turn out to be the case then it only one way streaming from the TiVo connected via the e-sata port to other TiVos. However, if this work then WD could build a MyDVD expander that stream back to the device.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

Calling all math people, 6 drive bays + 2TB drives in each bay = how many HD hours.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

jmill said:


> from release notes for Netgear ReadyNAS NVX:
> 
> I would assume ReadyNAS Ultra would do the same thing.


Not if is connected to the e-sata port. From the info on the Ultra.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

The archiving feature is a great addition to the functionality. I had written a Perl script to do the same thing. Hopefully they'll make that available as an update to older units as well.

There's a thread here on their forums discussing the feature. It sounds like they're using the standard web services interface so they almost certainly will be restricted by the same copy protection limits as anything else.


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## jmill (Feb 22, 2010)

Johncv said:


> Not if is connected to the e-sata port. From the info on the Ultra.


Huh? You have no idea what you're talking about. Have you even ever saw ReadyNAS device?

ReadyNAS does not have eSATA port. ReadyNAS uses protocol similar to pyTiVo, and as long as both TiVo and ReadyNAS are on the same LAN, you can transfer shows between TiVo and ReadyNAS.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Unfortunately I think he's been confused by the really poor description of the feature in some of the early reports.

If you look at the pics in the engaget slide show they have a good view of both units with no sign of an eSata port. Two ethernet, three USB. The Ultra 6 appears to have an extra four pin keyed port of some kind but it doesn't look like any SATA port I've seen.

http://www.engadget.com/photos/netgear-ultra-4-and-ultra-6/#3158013

Full specs and pre-order on Amazon are coming tomorrow.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Johncv said:


> Calling all math people, 6 drive bays + 2TB drives in each bay = how many HD hours.


Over 1800 hours.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Johncv said:


> Calling all math people, 6 drive bays + 2TB drives in each bay = how many HD hours.


Figure 317 hours per 2tb based off DVR_dudes upgrade screenshots so you would probably have around 1900 hours. This of course doesn't take into account any OS files or any type of raid or duplication setup.


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## jmill (Feb 22, 2010)

innocentfreak said:


> Figure 317 hours per 2tb based off DVR_dudes upgrade screenshots so you would probably have around 1900 hours. This of course doesn't take into account any OS files or any type of raid or duplication setup.


You will not see 1900 hours or any increased number of hours for that matter. ReadyNAS is not directly attached device, it functions in the same way as TiVo Desktop (mac / windows) or pyTiVo .

For those of you who've used TiVo Desktop or pyTiVo, this is exactly what it is. Your ReadyNAS device will show as a folder in Now Playing list where you can choose your current or archived recordings.

I've been using this functionality on ReadyNAS NVX for some time and that is exactly how it works.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

It still gives you an idea on how much space you would have for saved recordings transferred if you used it as a dedicated TiVo server.


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## jmill (Feb 22, 2010)

innocentfreak said:


> It still gives you an idea on how much space you would have for saved recordings transferred if you used it as a dedicated TiVo server.


I agree with that to some degree.

The only difference is that with directly attached drive (or larger internal drive), you get full "xyz" hours for everything. With network drive, only non copy-protected shows can be transferred back and forth. So even if you have 16TB on your NAS, you can still transfer only what your cable provider allows you to.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

Netgear has there Ultra page up:

http://www.netgear.com/landing/en-us/ultra.aspx


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Looks like they need to work on their verbage as most people predicted. Even looking at comments on their forums where they discuss how they added this feature seems to imply DLNA support along with streaming.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

Someone reply with an answer to my question of how this device work with TiVo:

You have to authorize the ReadyNAS to connect to the TiVO with its Media Access Key (MAK). The ReadyNAS then can copy files from the TiVO to the local storage. Via DLNA (Now Playing screen), the TiVO can see the files on the ReadyNAS, and play them back. They retain the TiVO DRM/encryption the whole time, so only TiVOs in your account (share same MAK) can play them back.
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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

I really hope that's correct, but I'm still skeptical. That would mean that TiVo has either added, or has secretly had for a while a means to downlaod these copy protected files.


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## jmill (Feb 22, 2010)

Read my post above. Here is how it works:


__
https://flic.kr/p/4801946195


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

jmill said:


> I've been using this functionality on ReadyNAS NVX for some time and that is exactly how it works.


Does it show you the *ORIGINAL AIR DATE* and episode # information?

This is one of the big flaws when transferring BETWEEN Tivos -- that extended info is NOT kept. (However, when I download with iTivo, I get extra files with that extended info..)


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

nrc said:


> I really hope that's correct, but I'm still skeptical. That would mean that TiVo has either added, or has secretly had for a while a means to downlaod these copy protected files.


Or it simply MOVES them from the Tivo hard drive to the NAS, and if that's the case, TiVo could use the MOVE function for regular MRV as well, so long as only one copy is available at any given time.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Can it move copy protected files? I would be surprised if so.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

It looks like HP updated their software also.

http://www.wegotserved.com/2010/07/12/addin-update-hp-mediasmart-expander-tivo/


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

steve614 said:


> Or it simply MOVES them from the Tivo hard drive to the NAS, and if that's the case, TiVo could use the MOVE function for regular MRV as well, so long as only one copy is available at any given time.


Unfortunately that's not the case. They said so in this thread on their forum: "Files are copied/archived. TiVO does not grant permission to delete the files remotely."

They're probably just using the regular TiVo web services interface which doesn't have any ability to transfer copy protected files.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

nrc said:


> They're probably just using the regular TiVo web services interface which doesn't have any ability to transfer copy protected files.


You're probably right, and that's a shame. But if it turns out it can transfer copy protected files, then I'm buying one. But only if.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> You're probably right, and that's a shame. But if it turns out it can transfer copy protected files, then I'm buying one. But only if.


Bad news from the Netgear trend: 

Re: New product announcement -- ReadyNAS Ultra Family
by chirpa » Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:08 am

Currently, no. Cable provider encrypted stuff won't be able to be copied.
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## dcbarry (May 21, 2002)

Johncv said:


> Bad news from the Netgear trend:
> 
> Re: New product announcement -- ReadyNAS Ultra Family
> by chirpa » Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:08 am
> ...


If your going to quote, you should have included my handle as the questioner! ;-)

They avoided the question 3 times before I got a straight answer. It was also intesting how they danced around an answer when I questioned them on their "First TiVo® compatible DVR network archiving and storage device" claim on the datasheet.

Sounds like another great product, ruined by overbearing DRM. (At least for the majority of Tivo users who might consider it.)


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

dcbarry said:


> If your going to quote, you should have included my handle as the questioner! ;-)
> 
> They avoided the question 3 times before I got a straight answer. It was also intesting how they danced around an answer when I questioned them on their "First TiVo® compatible DVR network archiving and storage device" claim on the datasheet.
> 
> Sounds like another great product, ruined by overbearing DRM. (At least for the majority of Tivo users who might consider it.)


Sorry, had trouble cutting and pasting the thing. At lease you receive an answer. Just make me mad that TiVo and Netgear misrepresent everything on this.

Technical question, could a pearl script be written to make it do what we all want it to do?


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Johncv said:


> Technical question, could a pearl script be written to make it do what we all want it to do?


Unfortunately, no. TiVo simply won't allow you to copy a file that is copy protected. That's the deal they made with the devil to get their CableLabs certification.


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