# Tivo Lifetime Cards.......Ebay auction.



## Netbudda (Mar 3, 2005)

I'm going to put this out there for all of you to give me you opinion. As some of you know If you read this thread I was able to purchase 20 lifetime service gift cards last Thursday, I decided to use at least 1/2 of them to help folks here in the community, so far I have recevied a bunch of private messages and sold 10 cards for a little less than $400 each. It has come to my attention that one of the people I committed to sell two cards has an auction going on Ebay. This is really bugging the living hell out of me to the point that I'm considering not honoring the deal. The auction appears to be for charity. The part that bugs me the most is that this person doesn't appear to be part of this community in any way shape or form.......go ahead and tell me what you think.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

You are selling the cards at a profit, and you entered a business transaction. I think you should honor it unless he is in some way not fulfilling his end of the bargain. Unless you put conditions on your willingness to sell, and he violated those, I don't see why you are worried about what he is doing with the cards. I looked at the thread and all I saw was you saying "make me an offer." So unless there was something I missed, you didn't require that the buyer be a regular member of TC.

(The charity thing is just a red herring -- it is hard to know where the money is going unless the payment is made out to the charity itself.)


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## Netbudda (Mar 3, 2005)

ChuckyBox said:


> You are selling the cards at a profit, and you entered a business transaction. I think you should honor it unless he is in some way not fulfilling his end of the bargain. Unless you put conditions on your willingness to sell, and he violated those, I don't see why you are worried about what he is doing with the cards. I looked at the thread and all I saw was you saying "make me an offer." So unless there was something I missed, you didn't require that the buyer be a regular member of TC.
> 
> (The charity thing is just a red herring -- it is hard to know where the money is going unless the payment is made out to the charity itself.)


Thanks for the feedback......I can't put my finger on it, but there is something that really bugs me........the way I see it I'm not losing anything because I'm making some profit , but if the community is kosher with it......then by all means I'm ok with it.


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## tazzftw (Mar 26, 2005)

Weak man. Don't sell them at $400.

I say you put your remaining cards on eBay, for face value plus any extra charges you paid. That'll make everything legit.


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## PhillyGuy (Mar 12, 2006)

Sell it to him at the aution close price...


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## TiVo Newbie (Mar 16, 2006)

I think this person is going to have a hard sell when the buy it now price is $999.99 for just one card, at least that is the way I just read the auction. The are several available with buy it now for less than half that price.


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## Netbudda (Mar 3, 2005)

PhillyGuy said:


> Sell it to him at the aution close price...


I don't think she/he is going to pay the $999 she/he is asking for on Ebay.


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## Netbudda (Mar 3, 2005)

tazzftw said:


> Weak man. Don't sell them at $400.
> 
> I say you put your remaining cards on eBay, for face value plus any extra charges you paid. That'll make everything legit.


That's a great idea......I'll think about it.


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## tazzftw (Mar 26, 2005)

Let me know when you do.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 27, 2001)

me too


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## btl-a4 (Dec 28, 2005)

If you put them on ebay for face value someone can just as easily buy them then resell on ebay for $500 and still make about the same as if he/she bought them direct. Unless of course you meant to start the bid at 299. Don't see how anyone couldn't support you selling all 20 cards with a starting bid of $299. I personally had 2 extra cards. I sold both a cost plus paypal fees. I just sold it to people who had alot of posts in the forums, that way I was pretty sure they were going to use them personally.


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## tazzftw (Mar 26, 2005)

Although honstley, I can understand why you'd want to sell them through here.


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## filburt1 (Apr 23, 2005)

You could always write something like "Not for resale - purchased from TCF" on the card which would still make the card valid (all they need is the activation code). The only problem would be if no picture of the card is posted in the auction.

$1000 for a card is ridiculous. Even if rates stay the same, that would be 6.4 years of service, or a whopping 11.9 years at the MSD price. I know I would pay the monthly rate in either case.

Oh well. At least eBay is benefiting from all the seller fees they're raking in.


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## OldTownTreadles (Mar 15, 2006)

Netbudda said:


> I'm going to put this out there for all of you to give me you opinion. . It has come to my attention that one of the people I committed to sell two cards has an auction going on Ebay. This is really bugging the living hell out of me to the point that I'm considering not honoring the deal. The auction appears to be for charity. The part that bugs me the most is that this person doesn't appear to be part of this community in any way shape or form.......go ahead and tell me what you think.


I know how you feel (contract babble set aside). Nobody likes being exploited. You were offering them in good faith to people who you thought were really going to use them themselves. I do the same in my sewing machine repair forum, often sell things to other people at my cost. It's community. But sometimes someone wanders in and isn't really part of that community. I, too, feel exploited.

If the purpose of offering them is to ensure that people are able to get lifetime for a series 3 unit, then perhaps it would have been good to offer one only to each person. (If I wasn't broke at the moment, I'd have been interested.) But I guess since you did commit to sell to the person, you just wash the bad taste out of your mouth with your favorite brew and be done with it.


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## JoeyImage (Oct 22, 2004)

Netbudda said:


> if the community is kosher with it......then by all means I'm ok with it.


Forgive my ignorance, I'm somewhat new here but.. are the cards yours? If they are, why can you not do with them what you want? Do you need the message board users' approvals to sell them? That's a serious question, not a wiseass remark or anything, I don' know if selling them violates something and needs to be approved prior to the sale or something.


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## Redscott (Mar 17, 2006)

Just the fact that you bought twenty cards at once provides me with little incentive to help lighten your mental stress about someone elses ethics.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

I don't get it. Do you honestly believe that scalping only $100 per card makes you some kind of mother Teresa?


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## Netbudda (Mar 3, 2005)

samo said:


> I don't get it. Do you honestly believe that scalping only $100 per card makes you some kind of mother Teresa?


Card 299
Tax ( 7.5% ) = $22.50
Shipphing and insurance = $10.50

$332....not including the time and effort that took me to drive all around to find them, handling all this and the multiple trips to the post office, gas and $6,500 riding on my credit card.....the only thing I got from the guys I have sold the cards so far is a big Thanks, but there is always people like you that believe everything should be given to them for free, that they are entitled to things. Have a good day.


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

Netbudda said:


> .....the only thing I got from the guys I have sold the cards so far is a big Thanks


ummm...you got their *money* too, right?


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## Netbudda (Mar 3, 2005)

inaka said:


> ummm...you got their *money* too, right?


Yes I did, Sherlock.


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

Netbudda said:


> Yes I did, Sherlock.


Then what's the point of this thread??

You just want people to feel sorry for the scalper who sold his card to another scalper? Ummm...yeah, ok, you're the best. We all feel for you. 

Happy now?


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## Netbudda (Mar 3, 2005)

inaka said:


> Then what's the point of this thread??
> 
> You just want people to feel sorry for the scalper who sold his card to another scalper? Ummm...yeah, ok, you're the best. We all feel for you.
> 
> Happy now?


I see your point......thanks for showing me the light.


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## Netbudda (Mar 3, 2005)

OldTownTreadles said:


> I know how you feel (contract babble set aside). Nobody likes being exploited. You were offering them in good faith to people who you thought were really going to use them themselves. I do the same in my sewing machine repair forum, often sell things to other people at my cost. It's community. But sometimes someone wanders in and isn't really part of that community. I, too, feel exploited.
> 
> If the purpose of offering them is to ensure that people are able to get lifetime for a series 3 unit, then perhaps it would have been good to offer one only to each person. (If I wasn't broke at the moment, I'd have been interested.) But I guess since you did commit to sell to the person, you just wash the bad taste out of your mouth with your favorite brew and be done with it.


The way I see it now is that even if I only make $10 per card as a convenience fee I am a "Scalper"............ I'm starting to think that an Ebay Scalper is a smarter happier "Scalper"...............EBAY HERE I COME !!!!!!!


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Seriously, that's the thing you can't put your finger on. It's jealousy. You are jealous that he/she is going to earn more than you decided to earn. You wanted to be a good guy but still do some business. Now it turns out you made a lousy business decision which is bugging you. Also added to that, you gave back your nice guy card when you socked your friends here 20% on your stated investment.


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## Netbudda (Mar 3, 2005)

Billy66 said:


> You wanted to be a good guy but still do some business..


What a shame isn't it....?



Billy66 said:


> you gave back your nice guy card when you socked your friends here 20% on your stated investment.


Friends....? What the heck are you talking about ?, just because you have a Tivo and I have a Tivo that doesn't get you invited to my house for dinner. My friends ( 5 of them ) got their cards at cost, an opportunity they wouldn't had if the "Scalper" would have not snatched the cards.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

I get what Netbubba is trying to do here- he trys to go and do a nice thing for fellow posters around here and someone takes advantage of this for their own personal gain (financial, vice the joy of having a lifetime S3 Tivo). I think that there is an order of magnitude of difference between someone who spends his time to go out and get his hands on every card he can and takes 10 or 15 dollars for his efforts and someone who puts the card out on eBay and get 6 or 7 hundred dollars for no effort.

I don't understand those of you that see the two as the same  even at 20 cards (which he isn't, since he sold some to personal friends at cost), netbudda is barely going to make enough money back to cover his own lifetime sub, and I think that free lifetime is an appropriate reward for someone that tried to help out 20 fellow Tivo owners get lifetime before the deal is up.

Netbudda, keep up the good work. Tell your eBay seller to pound sand, and keep selling on the boards (just not to any of the naysayers in this thread!) :up:


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Netbudda said:


> What a shame isn't it....?
> 
> Friends....? What the heck are you talking about ?, just because you have a Tivo and I have a Tivo that doesn't get you invited to my house for dinner. My friends ( 5 of them ) got their cards at cost, an opportunity they wouldn't had if the "Scalper" would have not snatched the cards.


You missed my point. If you want to be a businessman, be a businessman. If you want to be a forum buddy, be a forum buddy. When you try to do both, you stink at both. Now you're jealous because someone else is a better businessman than you are, and you're not getting much sympathy because you aren't much of a forum buddy either.

You're in between. If you had picked a lane this thread wouldn't exist.


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## TiVo Newbie (Mar 16, 2006)

Netbudda, you bought the cards, do whatever you want with them which makes you feel best. I think your original intentions were honorable, trying to sell them at a smaller profit than others were asking. I bet most people who were able to get them from you are happy with their purchase, and are glad you did what you did.


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## Netbudda (Mar 3, 2005)

Billy66 said:


> You missed my point. If you want to be a businessman, be a businessman. If you want to be a forum buddy, be a forum buddy. When you try to do both, you stink at both. Now you're jealous because someone else is a better businessman than you are, and you're not getting much sympathy because you aren't much of a forum buddy either.
> 
> You're in between. If you had picked a lane this thread wouldn't exist.


There is nothing to be jealous about, I understood that if I try to please everybody this thread will never end, and the jealousy comes mostly from people not holding the cards. I have decided not to sell any more cards here, people like you just killed my good intentions. Believe me I'm not sad at all, I believe I just learned a lesson, as my last entry in this thread I have two smiles for you...this one 

and this one


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

ChuckyBox said:


> (The charity thing is just a red herring -- it is hard to know where the money is going unless the payment is made out to the charity itself.)


I take this back. I did a little investigation, and the donation is being made through a system that eBay has put together expressly for that purpose.

I can't see how she's going to get $999, but if she does, you'll know it is going to a good cause.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 27, 2001)

Netbudda said:


> There is nothing to be jealous about, I understood that if I try to please everybody this thread will never end, and the jealousy comes mostly from people not holding the cards. I have decided not to sell any more cards here, people like you just killed my good intentions. Believe me I'm not sad at all, I believe I just learned a lesson, as my last entry in this thread I have two smiles for you...this one
> 
> and this one


 :up: :up: :up:


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Netbudda said:


> There is nothing to be jealous about, I understood that if I try to please everybody this thread will never end, and the jealousy comes mostly from people not holding the cards. I have decided not to sell any more cards here, people like you just killed my good intentions. Believe me I'm not sad at all, I believe I just learned a lesson, as my last entry in this thread I have two smiles for you...this one
> 
> and this one


Let's recap.

--You decide to buy 20 lifetime TiVo cards from some odd reason
--You decide to sell 1/2 of them here
--Someone decides to buy 2
--You don't like that it looks like they are going to make more money than you, so you want to go back on your word.
--You come here to solicit opinions
--You get them.
--Now you're happy again right?
--I hope you also decided to honor your word and the commitment you made. The idea that you would consider not doing so makes you of questionable character.

Now which good intention did I kill? The one to help folks out or the one to screw them over when you don't like what they are going to do with them?


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## Redscott (Mar 17, 2006)

The picture is a very passive aggressive move. 

Perhaps having the cards lined up in a one finger salute would be more honest.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

I've been watching arguments about ebay like this all over the Internet for the last 8 or so years. I've never seen one really "resolve" itself. Basically you have the "people should be nice to each other" contingent, the "people should suck as much money out of others as possible" contingent, and a bunch of people in between who disagree strongly on what the "right" amount of money to suck is and under what conditions.

Usually people get more and more polarized as the thread goes on and some threads go Godwin. Usually, it's right after someone calls someone a socialist, that you know it's only going to get worse. 

I do understand the OPs feelings and I've seen many people express the same feeling, but there's really nothing you can do. If you release products at "below market" prices to some people, there's a good chance that one or more of them are going to be resold. And since ebay added "Buy it now" some sellers prefer to try to get some sucker to buy an extreme price rather than to let things go at the market price.



Netbudda said:


> The part that bugs me the most is that this person doesn't appear to be part of this community in any way shape or form


One thing you *could* have noticed though... Her first post was asking for a card and the second was noting the prices of cards on recent ebay auctions. If you want to be nice to community members, check em out a bit first.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

dgh said:


> I've been watching arguments about ebay like this all over the Internet for the last 8 or so years. I've never seen one really "resolve" itself. Basically you have the "people should be nice to each other" contingent, the "people should suck as much money out of others as possible" contingent, and a bunch of people in between who disagree strongly on what the "right" amount of money to suck is and under what conditions.


I believe these sorts of of arguments have been going on in general since the dawn of capitalism, so the lack of resolution you've witnessed isn't particularly unexpected.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

Billy66 said:


> Seriously, that's the thing you can't put your finger on. It's jealousy. You are jealous that he/she is going to earn more than you decided to earn. You wanted to be a good guy but still do some business. Now it turns out you made a lousy business decision which is bugging you. Also added to that, you gave back your nice guy card when you socked your friends here 20% on your stated investment.


I believe you hit the nail on the head...but i think you forgot one part and this is what the OP said that gave me the idea...



netbudda said:


> The way I see it now is that even if I only make $10 per card as a convenience fee I am a "Scalper"............ I'm starting to think that an Ebay Scalper is a smarter happier "Scalper"...............EBAY HERE I COME !!!!!!!


and the idea is, put out the thread and get some negative opinions back just enough to give you the reasoning to reneg on your deal and make some more $$$ for yourself...

maaaaaaan...their your cards, you paid for them, its your credit card bill....CHARGE what YOU want for them...end of story. dont come here complaining that you sold them for X then someone else took them and sold them for XX...you wont get any sympathy, but you dont want that right? you want justification for what you are going to do


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

ChuckyBox said:


> I believe these sorts of of arguments have been going on in general since the dawn of capitalism, so the lack of resolution you've witnessed isn't particularly unexpected.


But ebay and the Internet make the process far more transparent. For example, when I mention to people that retail and distributor markups are typically 100%, many people just refuse to believe it. But on ebay you can frequently see far greater markups since some people use the same ID for selling and buying. That's why a lot of people who were born and raised in a capitalist country freak out over ebay. For the first time, they can actually see the sausage being made


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## Toshirick (Mar 19, 2006)

New to this forum, but have been a Tivo user for a few years. I currently have a S2 and a Toshiba 60 DVD and LOVE it. S2 is lifetime and Toshiba is 6.95 a month. Can I still convert Toshiba to Lifetime? and should I. I would be willing to buy a Lifetime card for the new S3 I was reading about. Ebay Lifetime=$499.00. That seems crazy!


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

dgh said:


> That's why a lot of people who were born and raised in a capitalist country freak out over ebay. For the first time, they can actually see the sausage being made


Mmmm... sausage...


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## mick66 (Oct 15, 2004)

GoHokies! said:


> and I think that free lifetime is an appropriate reward for someone that tried to help out 20 fellow Tivo owners get lifetime before the deal is up.


Uhm, Do you think that all of these cards would have gone unused had netbudda not gone out and snatched them all up? He' has five friends that wanted one. So just exactly who is he helping out by scarfing up 15 more than he needs? What about all the people who thought they could go down to Best Buy (or wherever) and get a lifetime sub card only to find that they are sold out because netbudda was driving all over the city "investing" his money.

that said - BFD if netbudda wants to make a few dollars or a lot of dollars. I just don't get why he's *****ing about someone who's essentially doing the same thing he is.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

If you've made a firm commitment with price and terms specified, it's only right to complete the deal unless the buyer doesn't make good on his end. That said, I wouldn't willingly agree to sell an extra card to someone who only intended to turn around and sell it on eBay.

However, unless you are selling the cards at cost (including gas/time), you are making a profit, just like the resellers are doing. 

I bought 5 when I could've bought 9 - 2 for me, 2 for as a proxy for others and one I plan to hold on to until the Series 3 comes out. I certainly hope to make some money on the cards I don't keep, (though the $999 eBay auction is obscene), but I really can't complain if anyone I sell to resells a card.

Should I have bought all 9? Maybe, but there's a difference between making a little money and being greedy.

You clearly bought the cards to resell - if you get what you think is fair, why do you care (or how could you control) what the buyer does with them?


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Toshirick said:


> I currently have a S2 and a Toshiba 60 DVD and LOVE it. S2 is lifetime and Toshiba is 6.95 a month. Can I still convert Toshiba to Lifetime? and should I. I would be willing to buy a Lifetime card for the new S3 I was reading about. Ebay Lifetime=$499.00. That seems crazy!


Can you still convert the Toshiba to lifetime? No. Even if you get one of the lifetime gift cards, you can't use it on a box that's been previously activated.

Can you use it for a new Series 3? Yup.

As for $499 being crazy, maybe. But that's what the eBay marketplace seems to be valuing them at now. There's been a couple well-reasoned posts that show that $499 could still be quite a bargain. Some of the posts from Tivo employees over the last week seem to indicate that Tivo itself didn't think they could sell lifetime at a price that most would consider reasonable, though we don't know what that number is.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

jfh3 said:


> Can you use it for a new Series 3? Yup.
> 
> As for $499 being crazy, maybe. But that's what the eBay marketplace seems to be valuing them at now.


TiVo has stopped the lifetime option before the S3 came out. They can honor the Best Buy cards for a series 2 and series 1 and very easily have a TOS for series 3 that says no lifetime can be bought or used for it.

for a first time box I could see maybe 399 for lifetime assumming the box could be bought for 100 so I will be amused to watch people freak out about lifetime in all the various ways that are coming to pass.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> TiVo [can] very easily have a TOS for series 3 that says no lifetime can be bought or used for it.


Can they do that? Sure. Very easily? I doubt it, since any card purchased legally at Best Buy (or through Tivo) only excludes DirecTV Tivos and is valid for "a new subscription to the Tivo service" and is good from two years from the date of purchase.

There's nothing that refers to Series 1 or Series 2 or Series 3 ... just "Tivo service", so unless Tivo changes the company name before the Series 3 comes out, it's going to be tough to have a TOS that would preclude the use of one of these cards for new service activation.


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## Stylin (Dec 31, 2004)

OldTownTreadles said:


> I know how you feel (contract babble set aside). Nobody likes being exploited. You were offering them in good faith to people who you thought were really going to use them themselves. I do the same in my sewing machine repair forum, often sell things to other people at my cost. It's community. But sometimes someone wanders in and isn't really part of that community. I, too, feel exploited.
> 
> If the purpose of offering them is to ensure that people are able to get lifetime for a series 3 unit, then perhaps it would have been good to offer one only to each person. (If I wasn't broke at the moment, I'd have been interested.) But I guess since you did commit to sell to the person, you just wash the bad taste out of your mouth with your favorite brew and be done with it.


I agree. I would not sell the cards to that person. I'm sure you can find more worthy members that would appreciate the cards and use it for personal use only. You are not obligated to this potential buyer, and if the situation is leaving a bad taste in your mouth -forget going ahead. 
I was looking for a card for personal use earlier, but was lucky to find someone with a grandfathered lifetime S1 who will be transferring their acct to me, so that I may upgrade to S3 later. Even though unspoken, I'm sure he is not expecting me to go auction it on fleabay, but keep it for personal use.


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## Stylin (Dec 31, 2004)

BTW, I just figured out who the member is that you are referring to. She nearly got me too. I was going to inform her if I had found any cards, since we live on the same coast - but then I saw her 2nd post referring to fleabay. The guy I rec'd the S1 acct from has 2 more boxes - I certainly won't be referring her.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Stylin said:


> You are not obligated to this potential buyer,


What world do you live in?

When you make a deal, it's a deal. It's an obligation. If not rock solid legally, definitely morally. If he wants to screw this person over because he doesn't like what she's doing, that's his choice, but it doesn't change the facts.

I think she might say something like this to Netbudda. "You yourself are just the same as what you see in me."


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

jfh3 said:


> Can they do that? Sure. Very easily? I doubt it, since any card purchased legally at Best Buy (or through Tivo) only excludes DirecTV Tivos and is valid for "a new subscription to the Tivo service" and is good from two years from the date of purchase.
> 
> There's nothing that refers to Series 1 or Series 2 or Series 3 ... just "Tivo service", so unless Tivo changes the company name before the Series 3 comes out, it's going to be tough to have a TOS that would preclude the use of one of these cards for new service activation.


simply make the TOS of buying an S3 say it does not include any lifetime subscription. There is nothing on the card that says it *does* apply to a series 3.

I am just saying buyer beware is all, especially when prices start hitting 600 and more on ebay


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## Sirshagg (Dec 27, 2001)

jfh3 said:


> Can they do that? Sure. Very easily? I doubt it, since any card purchased legally at Best Buy (or through Tivo) only excludes DirecTV Tivos and is valid for "a new subscription to the Tivo service" and is good from two years from the date of purchase.
> 
> There's nothing that refers to Series 1 or Series 2 or Series 3 ... just "Tivo service", so unless Tivo changes the company name before the Series 3 comes out, it's going to be tough to have a TOS that would preclude the use of one of these cards for new service activation.


Actually all they would have to do is call it "Tivo HD Service" or something else like that on the S3. But i seriously doubt Tivo would do anything like that and it has been confirmed that the cards will be good on the S3 here:



TiVoOpsMgr said:


> Q. What about unredeemed Product Lifetime gift subscriptions? Will those still be honored after Wednesday 3/15?
> 
> A. Yes. We will honor your unredeemed Product Lifetime gift subscription. When you go to redeem your Product Lifetime gift subscription, it can be used on future hardware platforms such as the Series3.


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

mick66 said:


> Uhm, Do you think that all of these cards would have gone unused had netbudda not gone out and snatched them all up?


Actually, since Tivo asked BB to pull all the Lifetime gift cards, there is a good chance that the cards would have gone unused. At a BB near me, they had over 20 of the cards, but they had pulled them from the shelves last Tuesday night, and I went on Wednesday. So clearly, those 20+ cards went "unused"--back to Tivo or into the shredder.


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## Crrink (Sep 3, 2002)

Billy66 said:


> ...snip...
> I think she might say something like this to Netbudda. "You yourself are just the same as what you see in me."


And then send him off to the Doktor??   !!


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Nice Catch Crrink. Nothing like the Slipperman description to drive home how we appear to others.


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## Crrink (Sep 3, 2002)

Billy66 said:


> Nice Catch Crrink. Nothing like the Slipperman description to drive home how we appear to others.


Heheh, the familiarity of the phrase struck me instantly, but it did take a few minutes to remember which song it was from.

:up:


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Wanna get high?


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## TiVo Newbie (Mar 16, 2006)

Looks like his remaining 10 are on Ebay now with a buy it now of $449......


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

TiVo Newbie said:


> Looks like his remaining 10 are on Ebay now with a buy it now of $449......


haha wonder if he ever fulfilled his obligation...and i wonder if 449 will be enough for him, or will there be someone else that gets more?


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> simply make the TOS of buying an S3 say it does not include any lifetime subscription. There is nothing on the card that says it *does* apply to a series 3.


LOL!

When was the last time you saw a contract that provided the details of a product that didn't exist at the time the contract was written?

The terms and conditions on the card are clear and explicit. If Tivo had wanted to include any other restrictions (other than not applying to DIRECTV units), they could have. They didn't.

Tivo can't unilaterally change the terms after the fact (sale/activation of card). If they want to try and convince the card holder to take a refund instead, that's something different.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

TiVo Newbie said:


> Looks like his remaining 10 are on Ebay now with a buy it now of $449......


No feedback. No buyer yet. Maybe the price will have to be lowered again.


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## tazzftw (Mar 26, 2005)

I think we're forgetting something. Workers from TiVo came on here and said "Lifetime Subscription cards will work on future machines, including Series 3."


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

jfh3 said:


> LOL!
> 
> When was the last time you saw a contract that provided the details of a product that didn't exist at the time the contract was written?
> 
> ...


all true. I am simply saying that the card does not explicitly state series 3(how could they as to your point) and TiVo can simply say that a sereis 3 TOS does not include lifetime and therefor thye cards are not good for a series3.

now TiVo employees have ben quoted here as saying the cards would apply to a series 3 so my theoretical situation may not happen. Just pointing it out to those willing to spend big bucks to try and lifetime a series 3


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

ZeoTiVo said:


> all true. I am simply saying that the card does not explicitly state series 3(how could they as to your point) and TiVo can simply say that a sereis 3 TOS does not include lifetime and therefor thye cards are not good for a series3.


Does it say Series 2? If not, couldn't they at any point start shipping Series 2's that say in the box that the gift card your friend bought for you doesn't apply to this one too? If it does say Series 2, then they would just have to add a little "a" to the end to stick people with a bunch of worthless cards...

If you think they're really out to get you.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

I see a couple of these cards for sale for a "Buy it Now" price of $750. 

Both are being sold by seller Nancysueh


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

timckelley said:


> I see a couple of these cards for sale for a "Buy it Now" price of $750.
> 
> Both are being sold by seller Nancysueh


Used to be $999. However, both are sold for 100% charity.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> TiVo can simply say that a sereis 3 TOS does not include lifetime and therefor thye cards are not good for a series3.


You're missing my other point - NO THEY CAN'T, at least with regard to any terms that would preclude use of a lifetime service gift card.

Read the terms and conditions. If you're really worried about, contact a lawyer. Or any first year law student ...


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

jfh3 said:


> You're missing my other point - NO THEY CAN'T, at least with regard to any terms that would preclude use of a lifetime service gift card.
> 
> Read the terms and conditions. If you're really worried about, contact a lawyer. Or any first year law student ...


umm, TiVo just said you can not buy lifetime for a series 2 despite explicitly stating on the box you can buy lifetime. now the cards are good for series 2 - that is not the point here. Just that TiVo inc. can clearly change TOS and do not seem worried about lawyers or first year students even.

so if TiVo inc. feels the lifetime cards are a bad drain on the bottom line, they can do something about it.

Most likely TiVo seems ready to just let the cards run the two year course and not restrict them.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> umm, TiVo just said you can not buy lifetime for a series 2 despite explicitly stating on the box you can buy lifetime. now the cards are good for series 2 - that is not the point here. Just that TiVo inc. can clearly change TOS and do not seem worried about lawyers or first year students even.
> 
> so if TiVo inc. feels the lifetime cards are a bad drain on the bottom line, they can do something about it.


What's printed on the box aren't legal terms and conditions.

Tivo can't, and won't, change the terms of the lifetime cards that have been sold. Why you want to make everyone think they can and might is beyond me.



> Most likely TiVo seems ready to just let the cards run the two year course and not restrict them.


Of course, since that's what they're obligated to do ...


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

c3 said:


> Used to be $999. However, both are sold for 100% charity.


I wonder how a prospective bidder can be sure the proceeds will in fact go to charity.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

timckelley said:


> I wonder how a prospective bidder can be sure the proceeds will in fact go to charity.


eBay has the system set up to handle it if the payment is made through PayPal. Don't know about other payment methods.


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## TiVoMonkey (Jan 12, 2002)

I've been wondering. Is there a way for a person to check that a card they have is still valid?

Since people are probably buying them now to use for Series 3, which is still several months away. What if someone was selling an already redeemed card? Knowing full well that the buyer is not going to be redeeming it for months down the road?

I suppose TiVo can tell you if it's valid. But you'd still have to buy the card first.

It's not like the seller of a valid card is going to give you the activation number before you buy it.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

TiVoMonkey said:


> I've been wondering. Is there a way for a person to check that a card they have is still valid?
> 
> Since people are probably buying them now to use for Series 3, which is still several months away. What if someone was selling an already redeemed card? Knowing full well that the buyer is not going to be redeeming it for months down the road?
> 
> ...


Very legit question. Not only that, but seller can activate the card few days after it is sold to you. So even checking validity of the card does not protect you from fraud. Neither PayPal or Credit card will protect you from fraud after 30-45 days. Beware of anybody on ebay who doesn't have high (50+) positive feedback. You are basically dealing with scalpers of unknown integrity. It is a same as buying theater or football tickets on a street. Most con artists are trying to de-fraud you on more expansive items, but I would not recommend to buy lifetime card if you do not intend to activate it within 30 days.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

Don't these cards have any basic protection like something you need to rip open or scratch off to see the numbers?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

samo said:


> Very legit question. Not only that, but seller can activate the card few days after it is sold to you. So even checking validity of the card does not protect you from fraud. Neither PayPal or Credit card will protect you from fraud after 30-45 days. Beware of anybody on ebay who doesn't have high (50+) positive feedback. You are basically dealing with scalpers of unknown integrity. It is a same as buying theater or football tickets on a street. Most con artists are trying to de-fraud you on more expansive items, but I would not recommend to buy lifetime card if you do not intend to activate it within 30 days.


You can keep trying the card on TiVo just not confirm the order and the card will not get used but it will show if its good.

Les


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## Toeside (Feb 14, 2002)

dgh said:



> Don't these cards have any basic protection like something you need to rip open or scratch off to see the numbers?


Yes. There's the serial number of the card, then a scratch-to-reveal PIN. You need both to use the card.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

jfh3 said:


> Tivo can't, and won't, change the terms of the lifetime cards that have been sold.


Since the cards are for a product that TiVo no longer offers, they probably could change the terms. Imagine you had a ticket for a free lunch from a restaurant that later stopped serving lunch, they only serve dinner. You couldn't force specific performance -- you'd probably just get face value of the card toward a dinner. TiVo could probably just redeem the cards for cash or service worth $299.

I don't think that is going to happen, and they've indicated that it won't (at least in the near-term). I doubt the remaining cards floating around amount to much, and the longer people hold on to them, the longer TiVo gets to use their money for free. But I also wouldn't recommend waiting for too long to use the cards.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

ChuckyBox said:


> Since the cards are for a product that TiVo no longer offers,


It's not a product that is no longer offered. It's a service that is still offered but not at that price. They'd have a hard time using product-like excuses such as - we just don't have those in stock any more or, the chef just doesn't know how to cook TiVo service anymore.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The number of cards floating around out there is probably minimal in the scheme of things. I seriously doubt TiVo would risk the possibility of litigation just to stop a few thousand people from activating lifetime on a Series 3 unit.

Dan


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## briguymaine (Mar 17, 2004)

Netbudda said:


> Thanks for the feedback......I can't put my finger on it, but there is something that really bugs me........the way I see it I'm not losing anything because I'm making some profit , but if the community is kosher with it......then by all means I'm ok with it.


I'd say he/she just out businessed you. By you selling the cards for $400 you are in it to make money, so is this person. You've got nothing to be upset about. Like someone else said, get yours on eBay and make your money! I wish I had the thought (and $$$) to do what you are doing, you stand to make some green.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

briguymaine said:


> I'd say he/she just out businessed you. By you selling the cards for $400 you are in it to make money, so is this person. You've got nothing to be upset about. Like someone else said, get yours on eBay and make your money! I wish I had the thought (and $$$) to do what you are doing, you stand to make some green.


To follow up on this, maybe he wanted to make some $, without exploiting the end-TiVo-user too much. By adding an extra layer, we have two people making $, and now the end-user will be exploited bigtime!


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

timckelley said:


> To follow up on this, maybe he wanted to make some $, without exploiting the end-TiVo-user too much. By adding an extra layer, we have two people making $, and now the end-user will be exploited bigtime!


It is like saying that ticket broker who buys tickets from scalper is worse than scalper.


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## Fraser+Dief (Nov 18, 2005)

jfh3 said:


> Tivo can't, and won't, change the terms of the lifetime cards that have been sold.


You're right - for S2 machines, the product those cards are for, the *only product* they sold at the time of those cards.

It's perfectly reasonable that those conditions and terms would not apply to a product that didn't even exist at the time they were sold. Especially given that we know that purchasing lifetime for an S3 is an impossibility.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

ChuckyBox said:


> Since the cards are for a product that TiVo no longer offers, they probably could change the terms.


Didn't realize that Tivo has stopped selling "Tivo service", which is what the card provides.

If people didn't like the new terms for buying a box, they'll probably be very unhappy to find that Tivo no longer offers service.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

ChuckyBox said:


> Since the cards are for a product that TiVo no longer offers, they probably could change the terms. Imagine you had a ticket for a free lunch from a restaurant that later stopped serving lunch, they only serve dinner. You couldn't force specific performance -- you'd probably just get face value of the card toward a dinner. TiVo could probably just redeem the cards for cash or service worth $299.
> 
> I don't think that is going to happen, and they've indicated that it won't (at least in the near-term). I doubt the remaining cards floating around amount to much, and the longer people hold on to them, the longer TiVo gets to use their money for free. But I also wouldn't recommend waiting for too long to use the cards.


I agree with Chucky here. All TiVo has to do is to call TiVo service for S3 "TiVo Service Plus" or "TiVo Service S3". There are enough differences between S2 and S3 to justify that. I also agree that it is not likely to happen, but how many of you predicted mandatory 1 year commitment? TiVo can legally change terms and/or content and/or name of the service anytime.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

if tivo wanted to be slick and snakey they could def. work it out so those cards wouldnt be eligible for the s3....but i doubt that would be the case...like someone said before there are probably so few cards out its of minimal concern to tivo...and would probably cost more in the long run to change things enough to prohibit those few card holders to claim them on the s3...


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> The number of cards floating around out there is probably minimal in the scheme of things. I seriously doubt TiVo would risk the possibility of litigation just to stop a few thousand people from activating lifetime on a Series 3 unit.
> 
> Dan


From what I saw on the Best Buy computers at one store, I think we are talking closer to "hundreds" rather than "a few thousand", so I'm sure it's even less of an issue.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

samo said:


> I agree with Chucky here. All TiVo has to do is to call TiVo service for S3 "TiVo Service Plus" or "TiVo Service S3".


Doesn't matter how many people agree with Chucky - it's still not going to happen. Not like Tivo is going to say "OK, TCF - everybody vote - should we honor the cards?" No, they are going to ask the lawyers "Do we have to honor the cards?" And it seems like they've already gotten the answer to that question (remember - TivoOpsMgr has edited posts in the past because legal wanted him to - do you really think Tivo legal doesn't know what he's posted here stating that the cards WILL be honored?)

(And read the conditions - it wouldn't be as simple as playing word games with what they call "service").

I'm done with this debate - if anyone wants to believe Tivo won't honor these cards, go ahead. But I'm not worried one bit.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

samo said:


> TiVo can legally change terms and/or content and/or name of the service anytime.


Missed this point - if they DO change terms, they still have to honor the terms of whatever contract the consumer has entered into. For example, if anyone is paying month-to-month on a $12.95 service contract that was started before the 1-year commitment period came up, Tivo can't require that consumer to commit to 1-year unless they stop service and want to re-activate.

The lifetime cards fall into the area of "pre-existing contracts" and Tivo can't arbitrarily change those particular terms.


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## MoneyMINTR (Oct 8, 2000)

ok, I've been following these threads for a while now.

Some points worth mentioning.

A. TivoOpsMgr states that the subscription cards will be honored for a Series 3.
B. TivoOpsMgr states that Lifetime subscription will be available for all units that were purchased by 3/16/06 until 4/15/06.


Now, there are few (if not more than a few) people reporting problems activating lifetime subs on units purchased prior to 3/16/06. If this does not get rectified in a few days, then I would hate to think what will happen to the subscription cards when the series 3 does come out.


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## peteypete (Feb 3, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> The number of cards floating around out there is probably minimal in the scheme of things. I seriously doubt TiVo would risk the possibility of litigation just to stop a few thousand people from activating lifetime on a Series 3 unit.
> 
> Dan


My real question is will tivo even have the backend capability to maintain Lifetimes on Series 3's? Probably so since they need to keep series 2 people on.

I think when the time comes, having a lifetimed series 3 will be a cool badge of honor.


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## btl-a4 (Dec 28, 2005)

peteypete said:


> My real question is will tivo even have the backend capability to maintain Lifetimes on Series 3's? Probably so since they need to keep series 2 people on.
> 
> I think when the time comes, having a lifetimed series 3 will be a cool badge of honor.[/QUOTE ]
> 
> Yes they would have the backend compatibility because of the grandfathered lifetime subscribers from back in the day when lifetime service was not tied to the box but to the user.


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