# Sudden Deletion of several shows no where to be found



## synch22 (Dec 30, 2003)

Has anyone had this? I have shows that i have on the roamio since release that are still there but there have been shows deleting , from different channels that are not even appearing in the deleted folder.

Is there an explanation? If it automatically deletes does it not even show up in the delete folder?

There was one instance where I turned the show off on a mini, and when i went to see if it was there minutes later it was gone no where to be found..

I am baffled.


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## synch22 (Dec 30, 2003)

Quick follow up , if the item is set as keep until x date does it delete automatically and not store in deleted items? 
If that's the case I just checked all my shows and they are set to keep until Aug 1st or 2nd. Every show has this date. Weird, wonder if it was the update? And if those shows gone had a prior date and that's why they are gone. But like I said this has never happend and I have had the roamio since with release .


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## 9300170 (Feb 21, 2003)

synch22 said:


> Has anyone had this? I have shows that i have on the roamio since release that are still there but there have been shows deleting , from different channels that are not even appearing in the deleted folder.
> 
> Is there an explanation? If it automatically deletes does it not even show up in the delete folder?
> 
> ...


Just last week, I lost about 10 movies and 30 hours of TV shows. They're not in the deleted items, I don't use keep until delete, they're just gone. I'm at 31% usage on the meter. Frustrating, but then again, it's only TV.


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## synch22 (Dec 30, 2003)

9300170 said:


> Just last week, I lost about 10 movies and 30 hours of TV shows. They're not in the deleted items, I don't use keep until delete, they're just gone. I'm at 31% usage on the meter. Frustrating, but then again, it's only TV.


Check the keep until date on the shows you have left. Is it coming up soon, it may delete More.


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## ort (Jan 5, 2004)

I lost a whole bunch of stuff from my Roamio months ago. Including things that had been marked as "Keep Until I Delete". A huge swatch of shows I was savings.

It was all stuff from the bottom of my giant list of shows so I didn't even notice for a while. I have no idea when it happened. I do know for sure that it was never even close to being full.

Now, that said, I have kids, and who the heck knows. For all I know my 4-year old found the CLEAR button and went nuts... or maybe someone sat on the clear button while the remote was in the couch cushion. I have no way of knowing what happened... but I always thought it was really weird.


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## synch22 (Dec 30, 2003)

if someone manually deleted them they would be in the deleted items folder.


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## HomeUser (Jan 12, 2003)

Look in "Recording History" may show when and why.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

I just didn't want to be the first "crazy" person posting about permanently disappearing recordings.

I've been seeing it on TiVos that are only 50-60% full (with 3TB drives), have programs there, then **poof**!

Clearing the deleted folder makes no difference.

I don't use suggestions, wishlists, or KUID.

I can't find any record in history, or To Do, about them.

Those who think that yellow dot or yellow ( ! ) next to a program means what it says, don't know TiVo. I can see nearly everything in yellow, claiming impending deletion, stay in the blue for another month, with just a reboot... I can also just leave them in yellow, and not reboot, and they'll (mostly) be there later.

There's no real rhyme or reason to what goes "missing", for good...


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## Ben_Jamin75 (Dec 18, 2003)

Just a thought... Do any of these recordings have copy protection? 
Maybe there's some sort of feature/bug that is deleting things on behalf of the copywrite holder. (Similar to amazon instant video downloads expiring)


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

Ben_Jamin75 said:


> Just a thought... Do any of these recordings have copy protection?
> Maybe there's some sort of feature/bug that is deleting things on behalf of the copywrite holder. (Similar to amazon instant video downloads expiring)


I knew I should have included that! Nope!

I even checked the semi-premium Epix channel that comes with the "movie pak", which produces recordings that can't be transferred, but can be streamed. They have never been ones to vanish. I'm blessed with having very few channels that have the CCI byte set. It's never more protected than "copy once" (recording is the one copy), no "watch before ____ or it goes away" factor...


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## synch22 (Dec 30, 2003)

The shows I've noticed range from Disney Jr to HBO movies. Stuff is missing and its not cool. Never had this on the TiVo HD or series 3 occur.


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## synch22 (Dec 30, 2003)

Update, so my TiVo updated and all the shows are back. I'm baffled, 20+ shows missing for a week now appear.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

synch22 said:


> Update, so my TiVo updated and all the shows are back. I'm baffled, 20+ shows missing for a week now appear.


This is at least the third time I've heard of a software update recovering recordings back from "limbo" (my term for lost recordings that never find their way to Recently Deleted, but can wind up recovered, long after going missing), and it's not limited to single-member reports.

This could explain why some folks (like me) wind up with recordings going missing, combined with recordings being prematurely deleted when the drive usage is reported to be at 50-60% of a 3TB drive...

The assumed long-gone (also assumed having no hope of of recovery) recordings are still there, fully intact (otherwise, they couldn't come back, as described), and the space they occupy is off-limits for new recordings. Visible recordings likely will be deleted before these "limbo" recordings, if the limbo recordings are newer than what is visible. There could also just be an inability for the TiVo to do anything with/to the limbo recordings (like they are protected, somehow, while in limbo).

The TiVo UI fails to calculate the invisible/limbo recordings into what drive capacity is used, and what is free.

Since TiVo software updates are designed to do everything possible, in every way possible, not to brick a TiVo, cause losses of content on a TiVo, and so on, they will err on the side of preservation/recovery of anything questionable which can be preserved/recovered. This I know to be true. I'd bet the update process spotted the limbo recordings and recovered them, "just to be safe".

One can brick a TiVo, and/or lose everything on it, by using kickstarts, like 57 & 58 (although this seems to be non-occurring on Roamios). This tended to happen on Premieres and older models. There was an exception. The KS 52 (non-functional on Roamios, regardless of software version) "Emergency software reinstall" could do what KS 57 & 58 did, while also re-installing the software, using the mechanism that updates do, which is designed to limit casualties/losses. This is pretty much all non-applicable on Roamios, but is a nice backdrop to paint the picture I am trying to.

I have had "lost and/or limbo" recordings recover themselves when using the "Clear Program Information & To Do List" reboot function. This is beyond how running this function will recover everything visible in Recently Deleted, back into NPL/My Shows. Sometimes that still didn't bring back all (or any of) the invisible ones, that would get resurrected by a software update.

I recently helped a few members get rid of "phantom" RD entries, in a situation where the RD folder listed "X (number of) recordings" as being there, but none were visible. I had them install KMTTG and use it to view the RD folder, rather than using the TiVo UI. KMTTG showed the invisible RD items and successfully permanently deleted them, also correcting the "X recordings" number. I'd bet that those invisible (via TiVo UI) recordings could have been recovered, if I had asked the members to try doing so. But, that's not what they wanted to do about them.

I think it might be a good idea for more people to use KMTTG, and spot-check if there are discrepancies between what the TiVo UI lists/counts, and what KMTTG does.

It's also a good idea to clear-out the RD folder (and keep it cleared-out), while people know they are going to be getting a software update. This will help avoid all the RD recordings being placed back into the My Shows List/NPL, like sometimes happens after an update. KMTTG makes this so easy to do, there's almost no time/effort involved, once KMTTG is installed and people have learned how to use it. It's great for doing things in bulk, rather than one at a time, with confirmation prompts for each item, like the TiVo UI does such things. This way, I feel there's a better chance of limbo recordings that were never in RD, being recovered. It also saves the time of re-deleting items from RD, that could get moved back to My Shows/NPL.

This is all just me trying to be helpful. If some don't see the value in what I advise, please just do as you please, and let the others decide on what they want to do (or not do).


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## abovethesink (Aug 26, 2013)

I came here to see if anyone else was having this problem. I just randomly lost near 50% of my recordings. My TiVo went from 80% full last night to 43% right now. No one deleted anything yet so much is gone. It seems to have taken out a whole bunch from a wishlist.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Same here not sure what I lost but hard drive went from 85% full to 70% full - I am OTA only and didn't have any Amazon downloads saved so no DRM issues.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Not exactly the same thing, but I noticed for the first time (IIRC) _on my Roamio Plus_ the "item stuck in Recently Deleted". I have seen it sporadically on prevoius Tivos. As usual, reboot and I could delete it. I don't usually delete things in RD, I only checked the Deleted folder because I was VERY VERY close to full last night (doing a lot of HD recording).

I really wish they'd fix these kinds of things.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

synch22 said:


> Update, so my TiVo updated and all the shows are back. I'm baffled, 20+ shows missing for a week now appear.


I had a bunch of individual recordings and groups of recordings go missing on my Roamio Pro and they came back after the Summer update (20.4.2) as well. Though it's possible that they simply came back because of the box rebooting.

In my case, I figured out that they weren't actually deleted. I used the TiVo's internal web page that lets one download recordings and they showed up there. Also if I searched for a program that went missing and found it in search, I was given the option to play the program from "My Shows".

So the programs were still in My Shows, they were just effectively invisible.

Assuming others are having the same problem and the shows haven't actually been deleted, somethings people can try, which I didn't think of doing, was to reset the HDUI (Thumbs down, thumbs up, play, play). That or restart.


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## shamilian (Mar 27, 2003)

There was an old bug that showed up in the my shows list only in group mode.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=459780&highlight=group

I think this bug was caused by bad data in the program guide of the recordings. I was missing a large block of show entries, by changing to non-group mode I was able to find the bad entries and delete them and bring back the missing show entries in the my shows list.

Some of the entries were in the Tivo suggestions so you had to work at fining them.

I also read a couple of weeks ago that roamio (and maybe premiere) has some new kickstart codes that verify the database.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

morac said:


> I had a bunch of individual recordings and groups of recordings go missing on my Roamio Pro and they came back after the Summer update (20.4.2) as well. Though it's possible that they simply came back because of the box rebooting.
> 
> In my case, I figured out that they weren't actually deleted. I used the TiVo's internal web page that lets one download recordings and they showed up there. Also if I searched for a program that went missing and found it in search, I was given the option to play the program from "My Shows".
> 
> ...


I've been following a several threads that this comes up in (or things that seem 98% likely to be related). I have yet to hear of a reboot alone bringing anything back. But, at least it was noted that reboots and other attempts to find the missing shows were attempted (up to, and including, kickstarts). It seems to be something like a TiVo Service (or server) issue causing the problem pre-update, then the update bringing the missing items back.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Also of possible interest. Originally I thought the programs were deleted so I transferred them from another TiVo box that had the same recording. Those transfers also never showed up in My Shows. Turning groups off, made no difference.

It was like the My Shows was simply filtering out said recordings. I've seen a similar issue in the past in the HD UI and the solution was to switch to the SD UI to find the recordings, but that's not an option on the Roamio.


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## Ray Brown (Sep 30, 2021)

synch22 said:


> Has anyone had this? I have shows that i have on the roamio since release that are still there but there have been shows deleting , from different channels that are not even appearing in the deleted folder.
> 
> Is there an explanation? If it automatically deletes does it not even show up in the delete folder?
> 
> ...


I believe tivo staff is doing it purposely so you can buy another Tivo


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## Ray Brown (Sep 30, 2021)

atmuscarella said:


> Same here not sure what I lost but hard drive went from 85% full to 70% full - I am OTA only and didn't have any Amazon downloads saved so no DRM issues.


I believe tivo staff is doing it purposely so you can buy another Tivo


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

LOL, gotta love noob trolls.


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