# Bestbuy refusing to sell TIVOS



## scott816 (Feb 6, 2005)

I tried to buy a HD TIVO yesterday at BestBuy and BestBuy refused to sell me one. During checkout the women ringing me up asked for my name, number address... i asked her why she needed it and she informed me that Tivo requires it. WTF? 

I was paying cash so why do they need my information? the manager was called over to the register and he also demanded my contact information. I told him i was paying cash and he told me it doesn't matter. He informed me that this was TIVO'S policy and that his hands were tied. When i refused to give him my information he took the HD TIVO and said that i could not purchase it and walked off!! WTF? My wife and I walked out of the store stunned. We drove over to the local circuit city and bought one without any questions asked. So what the hell is going on? Is this a TIVO issue or a Bestbuy issue? 

Everytime i go into bestbuy it seems that i walk out either angry or stunned these days. I really can not stand having my purchased bagged items checked when i leave the store. I find it to be an invasion of my privacy but that is whole different story.


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## LostCluster (Feb 11, 2002)

TiVo has always sold computer hardware at less than it was worth and made up the difference and then some with the subscription price. Best Buy requires address info for all subscription based devices (TiVos, XM and Sirius radios...) because they're on the hook if they sell a device and that device's number never shows up as subscribed.

You're going to have to provide your name, address, and credit card number to TiVo... why'd you have a problem giving it to your Best Buy checkout rep?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

I don't believe I've EVER walked out of BB without being one or all of the following -- 

1) Disappointed
2) Insulted
3) Misled
4) Flabbergasted
5) Annoyed
6) Disgusted
7) Disgruntled
8) Irritated
9) Ripped off
10) Violated


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

LostCluster said:


> ...You're going to have to provide your name, address, and credit card number to TiVo... why'd you have a problem giving it to your Best Buy checkout rep?


BIG BIG difference there. You can trust TiVo.....BB....well....nuff said...


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

I recently purchased a Vonage adapter from Best Buy and they recorded the MAC address. When I asked "why", they had no answer except "the computer requires it"


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

It's probably just a Best Buy hiccup; before the HD models, there was a subsidy involved in the pricing of the unit, and a subscription for it was essentially required to be purchased. Nowadays, though, that's not the case. It sounds like they've just got their "TiVo policy" in place and don't pay an attention to what models it would really be required for.

In any case, I would have to also say you just made a completely unnecessary nuisance of yourself for making such a big deal over it and wasted more of your own time than it was worth. Why some people get such a bug up their ass over such "privacy" issues just escapes me.


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## tevoisseur (Jul 12, 2008)

I'm sorry but why not? Why does the OP have to give BB anything? If the OP is paying with cash what the hell difference does it make?

It seems to me that people give out information too easily today. You want my SSN? Well, here you go. You want to have a national ID card, because it will 'make the country safer'? Sure, why the f*** not. It seems perfectly logical that the terrorists won't go out and get one.

I think if you don't question things like this the companies like BB are going to think that they can get away with collecting un-necessary information.



dswallow said:


> It's probably just a Best Buy hiccup; before the HD models, there was a subsidy involved in the pricing of the unit, and a subscription for it was essentially required to be purchased. Nowadays, though, that's not the case. It sounds like they've just got their "TiVo policy" in place and don't pay an attention to what models it would really be required for.
> 
> In any case, I would have to also say you just made a completely unnecessary nuisance of yourself for making such a big deal over it and wasted more of your own time than it was worth. Why some people get such a bug up their ass over such "privacy" issues just escapes me.


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## dylanemcgregor (Jan 31, 2003)

dswallow said:


> In any case, I would have to also say you just made a completely unnecessary nuisance of yourself for making such a big deal over it and wasted more of your own time than it was worth. Why some people get such a bug up their ass over such "privacy" issues just escapes me.


Besides the "principle" of the thing. Which I have a tendency to care about a lot more than some other people there is also the pragmatic issue of not wanting to be spammed. Giving your address to BB pretty much guarantees you'll get added to marketing lists and sent junk mail. Sure you can go to the hassle of talking to them after the fact to remove your name from the list...wait a couple of months for it to propagate through the system, call back when it doesn't and ask to be removed again...rinse..repeat. Or you can refuse to give your name in the first place and save yourself the hassle.

I appreciate people who stand up and refuse to give private information just because they are asked...but I admit in my personal life I tend to take the middle ground and just give fake info, I hate confrontation.


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## ThreeSoFar'sBro (Oct 10, 2004)

I have to admit, BB is pissing me off more lately, too. From their "Hi, what's your name?" to their having to check you out before you leave....

One of these days they're going to catch me in a bad mood, and I will make a huge deal of it on the way out. It's not Costco--they can't make you show them your receipt on the way out.


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## cwsqbm (Aug 31, 2008)

If they're not checking ID's, do what I've done since Radio Shack started asking many years ago - fake name, fake address, and fake phone number, etc. It elminiates any questions and I get left alone.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

What's your name: "Jack"
Is that your last name: "No"
Could we have your last name please? "Sure, it's Meeoff"


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## lllslinklll (Jul 8, 2008)

It appears that Best Buy is actually activating service when they're selling the machines. If you look on their website it says:

"TiVo Service as low as $8.31 per month*
*Minimum 1 year service plan required. Early termination fee and other restrictions apply. Call (877)BUY-TIVO for service plan details."

Whereas if you look on Circuit City's website it states:

"Service charges TiVo subscription sold separately"

So in theory, yes tivo does need that information to set up a service plan, the real question is why can't Best Buy sell you a tivo without trying to create a service plan.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I like Circuit City because there is less *buzz* in the atmosphere and they don't have the bag check 'nazi' standing at the exit.
I bought my TivoHD there.
I go to Best Buy only when I need something specific that Circuit City doesn't carry.

In the OPs situation, I would have attempted to give a false name with a fake address, etc.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

lllslinklll said:


> the real question is why can't Best Buy sell you a tivo without trying to create a service plan.


It can't be about money...you'd think that BB would try to get _something_ out of you...but if they care more about policy than making a sale...?


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## EVizzle (Feb 13, 2005)

steve614 said:


> but if they care more about policy than making a sale...?


Hmmm, you would prefer a company to BREAK policy to make a sale?


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

lllslinklll said:


> It appears that Best Buy is actually activating service when they're selling the machines. If you look on their website it says:
> 
> "TiVo Service as low as $8.31 per month*
> *Minimum 1 year service plan required. Early termination fee and other restrictions apply. Call (877)BUY-TIVO for service plan details."
> ...


If BB were selling the service, and they're not, they'd have to have the details of the plans on hand and when someone asked why BB needed personal information, they'd say it was for the service plan.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Amnesia said:


> I recently purchased a Vonage adapter from Best Buy and they recorded the MAC address. When I asked "why", they had no answer except "the computer requires it"


They record serial numbers of products if one is on the package. This helps them prevent return fraud - say, you returned a broken one and kept the good one.


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## webin (Feb 13, 2008)

No, he's implying they should have different policies. But BestBuy, as has been pointed out many times in the past, are the Nazis of the consumer electronics stores.

//Godwin's Law, 16th post.


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## usnret (Nov 25, 2003)

Maybe they check the bag on the way out to make sure that someone doesn't slip a little something extra in it before leaving??


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

While I agree Best Buy's policy is moronic; and I also believe that it really isn't their policy, but something someone put into the computer and the staff didn't even understand, i agree with Doug.

If I wanted the Tivo, such sillyness wouldn't have prevented me from buying it. 

And I'd never buy a consumer electronics product for cash anyway.


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## EVizzle (Feb 13, 2005)

yeah, cash for electronics is really dumb. If you lose your receipt, you have no way to get warranty service on the item. Also, why would one trust Tivo with their data and not Best Buy? Does Tivo have an outstanding track record or something?


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## scott816 (Feb 6, 2005)

I bought a $100 service gift card form tivo.com so i would not have to purchase service from a brick an mortar. Several years ago i purchased a tivo and had to purchase a year of service up front. I gave it as a wedding gift and sure enough after a year i started getting my credit card charged automatically even though the tivo was registered to someone else in different state! Needless to say it was a bit embarrassing calling my cousin and asking him to call Tivo and have have his credit card charged not mine.



lllslinklll said:


> It appears that Best Buy is actually activating service when they're selling the machines. If you look on their website it says:
> 
> "TiVo Service as low as $8.31 per month*
> *Minimum 1 year service plan required. Early termination fee and other restrictions apply. Call (877)BUY-TIVO for service plan details."
> ...


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## tevoisseur (Jul 12, 2008)

Plus within 3 months all BB receipts disintegrate. Every one that I have had all the ink has faded within a few months. 



EVizzle said:


> yeah, cash for electronics is really dumb. If you lose your receipt, you have no way to get warranty service on the item. Also, why would one trust Tivo with their data and not Best Buy? Does Tivo have an outstanding track record or something?


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

Of course they can make you show them your receipt and/or check your bags. Why can Costco and not BB? What law states they can't try to "protect" their property? They also can throw you out of the store if they don't like you (I can personally vouch for that). It's private property. What they can't do is discriminate based on race or color, but they can even put you through a metal detector if they want. Of course, you don't have to shop there. That is your right to protest by withholding your business. If you put up a stink and cause a disturbance they have the right to call the police and have you escorted out of the store ..... which is exactly what happened to me. I wanted to sue, but my uncle, who was a civil rights attorney, told me it was perfectly permissible unless they had me falsely arrested.



ThreeSoFar'sBro said:


> It's not Costco--they can't make you show them your receipt on the way out.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

That depends on the individual store. The 2 CC's stores I (rarely) visit both have receipt/bag checking at the door for both sales and returns and both stores are located in "nice" suburban areas.


steve614 said:


> I like Circuit City because there is less *buzz* in the atmosphere and they don't have the bag check 'nazi' standing at the exit.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

incog-neato said:


> Of course they can make you show them your receipt and/or check your bags. Why can Costco and not BB?


Because you sign a membership agreement with Costco in which you agree to allow them to check your receipt.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

ANY store can check your receipt or your packages as long as you are on their premises which is private property. As for Costco I never signed anything other then a $15 check about 20 years ago (when it was called Price CLub). They may do that now, but it's probably a CYA.


Turtleboy said:


> Because you sign a membership agreement with Costco in which you agree to allow them to check your receipt.


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## scott816 (Feb 6, 2005)

What law gives them the right to search a persons personal property upon leaving a store? The government can't even search ones personal property without permission or a warrant but yet bestbuy can?

Costco is a club that has to be joined and by joining you agree to let Costco employees cross check your receipt. A contract is signed.



incog-neato said:


> Of course they can make you show them your receipt and/or check your bags. Why can Costco and not BB? What law states they can't try to "protect" their property? They also can throw you out of the store if they don't like you (I can personally vouch for that). It's private property. What they can't do is discriminate based on race or color, but they can even put you through a metal detector if they want. Of course, you don't have to shop there. That is your right to protest by withholding your business. If you put up a stink and cause a disturbance they have the right to call the police and have you escorted out of the store ..... which is exactly what happened to me. I wanted to sue, but my uncle, who was a civil rights attorney, told me it was perfectly permissible unless they had me falsely arrested.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

incog-neato said:


> ANY store can check your receipt or your packages as long as you are on their premises which is private property. As for Costco I never signed anything other then a $15 check about 20 years ago (when it was called Price CLub). They may do that now, but it's probably a CYA.


Not true.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

While coming IN the STORE (it's private property) or before leaving the store they can look in any bag they want. They obviously can't body cavity search you, I am referring to bags etc. If you say it's against the law, how do large numbers of major stores get away with it? You don't think SOMEONE (or the ACLU) would have taken them to court? These big chains have big-buck lawyers on retainer and you can be certain it's carefully checked before it was done. It's done all the time in inner-city stores by major chains. It's private property, they can check your bags or throw you out of the store at will.... as long as it isn't race based. They even have local police doing the checking in full uniform for jobs in blue.

So you say if a guy is walking out of your store with a big bulging plastic bag under their arm you need to get a warrant to ask him to open the bag?



scott816 said:


> What law gives them the right to search a persons personal property upon leaving a store? The government can't even search ones personal property without permission or a warrant but yet bestbuy can?
> 
> Costco is a club that has to be joined and by joining you agree to let Costco employees cross check your receipt. A contract is signed.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

scott816 said:


> Bestbuy refusing to sell TIVOS




That title is flat out a lie, and purposely misleading.
-
Best Buy refused to sell you a TiVo, Cash, with no information.

The don't refuse to sell TiVo's...

Anyway, so what. There's no rule that they can't sell something without requiring information, especially since the TiVo is subsidized. Frankly I hope more of these stores adopt these rules. For one, I'm sick of stores selling out of Wii's just so they can go on ebay...


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

That's an informative answer based on fact. Is there a federal or state law stating I can't check bags against receipts of customers leaving my store? Maybe it's a "state" thing but in the state I live in I have the right to check bags of anyone coming into my store or leaving my store. If they want to leave them outside, fine. But I am fully within my rights to ask for their receipt and check their purchase against it before they leave. They don't have to shop here if they don't like it. I can also ask any customer to leave and if they don't leave I can call the police to escort them off the premises since it is private property. If it's "against the law" how come no one has taken the major chains to court.



Turtleboy said:


> Not true.


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## tevoisseur (Jul 12, 2008)

I completely disagree. They don't need to require information and if they do WE as consumers have the RIGHT to tell them where to stick it. I'm glad that the OP took a stand.



Adam1115 said:


> That title is flat out a lie, and purposely misleading.
> -
> Best Buy refused to sell you a TiVo, Cash, with no information.
> 
> ...


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## scott816 (Feb 6, 2005)

I agree you have a right to ask to see a persons receipt and to ask to look in their bag(s), they do not have to comply though. You can't force them to comply. If the store has evidence that a person on their property is stealing they can hold the person until the police arrive and the police will investigate (look in the bags...). However, if the store has falsely accused a person of stealing they are at great risk of being sued. Failing to comply is not evidence of guilt.

You sure can ask a person to leave and like you said call the police to have them escorted out. The police doing the escorting is the key i think . the store is at risk if the physically try to remove someone from the premises. The police on the other hand can remove you suing force.



incog-neato said:


> That's an informative answer based on fact. Is there a federal or state law stating I can't check bags against receipts of customers leaving my store? Maybe it's a "state" thing but in the state I live in I have the right to check bags of anyone coming into my store or leaving my store. If they want to leave them outside, fine. But I am fully within my rights to ask for their receipt and check their purchase against it before they leave. They don't have to shop here if they don't like it. I can also ask any customer to leave and if they don't leave I can call the police to escort them off the premises since it is private property. If it's "against the law" how come no one has taken the major chains to court.


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## EVizzle (Feb 13, 2005)

tevoisseur said:


> I completely disagree. They don't need to require information and if they do WE as consumers have the RIGHT to tell them where to stick it. I'm glad that the OP took a stand.


Do you get pissed at Apple when they require your personal information and a credit card for an iphone purchase? By shopping there, you are complying with their requests, which more often than not, are to protect their business. You do NOT have the right to tell them where to stick it, but you can go somewhere else.

Don't be an A-Hole to some young kid because he is doing what was asked of him. Shop online with your cash and see how well that works


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## e30cabrio (Jun 4, 2006)

Bierboy said:


> I don't believe I've EVER walked out of BB without being one or all of the following --
> 
> 1) Disappointed
> 2) Insulted
> ...


QFT.

There is a BB less than 1/4 mile from my house. I drive 5 miles each way to CC.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

I get more bag-check BS at Circuit City than at Best Buy, _plus_ CC is out of my way. Never tried to buy a (non-DirecTV) TiVo at either place, though.


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## RebeccaD7 (Jul 23, 2006)

scott816 said:


> Everytime i go into bestbuy it seems that i walk out either angry or stunned these days. I really can not stand having my purchased bagged items checked when i leave the store. I find it to be an invasion of my privacy but that is whole different story.


I'm not understanding why everyone here doesn't like that Best Buy checks their bag...it's a security measure, and I think it's pretty justifiable. If you purchase something in the computer section, it's pretty easy to then just throw something else from the store in your bag without paying for it. That is why they check your reciept at the door. What is the big deal? They look at your reciept, look at your bag, your done.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Most of the time the door security just nods me through the door after a purchase; they're in view of the cashiers and see if you're coming from one and have made a purchase; no need to check bags when they see the bags filled in the first place by the cashier.

They do provide an important service for people making returns... identifying that you did indeed bring the return in from outside with you, rather than picking up one off the shelf and "returning" it.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

RebeccaD7 said:


> I'm not understanding why everyone here doesn't like that Best Buy checks their bag...it's a security measure, and I think it's pretty justifiable. If you purchase something in the computer section, it's pretty easy to then just throw something else from the store in your bag without paying for it. That is why they check your reciept at the door. What is the big deal? They look at your reciept, look at your bag, your done.


If they have no reason to suspect that I'm bringing my bag in to the store to rip them off, they have no right to look at what I'm bringing in the bag. They already watch the customers with hidden cameras, security personnel and via other means so NO, they don't have to look at my bag, check my receipt, or otherwise determine that I'm not there to rip them off.

Before you say I don't need to shop there, you'll be glad to know that I don't shop at places that apply the stupid policy of bothering their customers to check their bags.

Normally it's not an issue at all as I don't normally walk into one store with goods purchased at another store, but if I do, the stuff in my bag is mine. It became mine when I purchased it. It's not any business of Best Buy or Circuit City if I purchased something somewhere else, and it's not their business to see what I bought, how much I paid for it, how I paid for it, or any thing else having to do with the transaction. If I walk into Circuit City or Best Buy, or FYE or whatever the store is and I don't have a receipt in the bag but am carrying a bag from another store with items that don't have price tags from the store that I'm in then again there is no real justification for the store to ask to see my bag. If they want to have a loss prevention specialist follow me around, they can assign me a personal shopper and have them lead me to everything I want to buy, or at least have them tail me around the store. I may not like that they do that, but that's a lot less accusatory than demanding to see my property as I come or go through the front doors.


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## tevoisseur (Jul 12, 2008)

I, just like every consumer, choose what and when to give information. And yes, I do have the right to tell them to stick that (and by that I mean walk out the door).

By shopping there I am looking for something that has value to me. This does not give them the right to require this information for a cash purchase. How exactly where they protecting their business with the OP?

I do not purchase or even think about purchasing from Radio Shack for this very reason.

You know, I don't think your tone was really needed. Again by 'Stick It', I mean tell them politely that you are not going to comply and shop elsewhere.

And of course, call and complain to their corporate consumer relations department, so that know of the problem and you're not going to shop there because of it.



EVizzle said:


> Do you get pissed at Apple when they require your personal information and a credit card for an iphone purchase? By shopping there, you are complying with their requests, which more often than not, are to protect their business. You do NOT have the right to tell them where to stick it, but you can go somewhere else.
> 
> Don't be an A-Hole to some young kid because he is doing what was asked of him. Shop online with your cash and see how well that works


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

EVizzle said:


> Hmmm, you would prefer a company to BREAK policy to make a sale?


No, I'm just confused that they would even _have_ a policy that could potentially lose a sale.
If BB cares more about policy than taking my money, that's fine. I'll spend it elsewhere. No sweat off my b*lls.
...



webin said:


> No, he's implying they should have different policies. But BestBuy, as has been pointed out many times in the past, are the Nazis of the consumer electronics stores.


What he said.


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## EVizzle (Feb 13, 2005)

tevoisseur said:


> You know, I don't think your tone was really needed. Again by 'Stick It', I mean tell them politely that you are not going to comply and shop elsewhere.


That is a pretty loose definition of telling someone to "stick it"... if you meant that initially I think you should have said so.

There are many reasons why cash poses a problem. Pay as you go cell phones are one example. There is a government requirement for information regarding pay go users, and there is a limit on the number of pay go phones per customer (2). The reason for this is the frequent use of these phones for illegal activities. Without some sort of tracking information, it is impossible for a company to control these sales.

Another example: Let's say you go around your city, buying up Tivos and paying cash for them. You open up the boxes, pull out the product, fill the box back up with books for weight, and reseal the box. You return the Tivos with your receipt, and because you paid cash and gave no personal information, you get away. The next customer buys this, but has to return it to the store because the box was stuffed with books instead of a tivo. Without any data, the store must eat the cost. If you use a credit card or provide personal information, they can look at your purchase record and see that you have purchased 200 Tivos, returned them all, and then the store started to have problems with missing product, and could link it to you.

Cash is more and more a tool of illegal and unethical behavior. It is a shame, but it is a fact. If we didn't have criminals, we wouldn't have to put up with annoyances like receipts being checked, or providing personal information for everyday purchases.


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## RebeccaD7 (Jul 23, 2006)

bdowell said:


> If they have no reason to suspect that I'm bringing my bag in to the store to rip them off, they have no right to look at what I'm bringing in the bag. They already watch the customers with hidden cameras, security personnel and via other means so NO, they don't have to look at my bag, check my receipt, or otherwise determine that I'm not there to rip them off.
> 
> Before you say I don't need to shop there, you'll be glad to know that I don't shop at places that apply the stupid policy of bothering their customers to check their bags.
> 
> Normally it's not an issue at all as I don't normally walk into one store with goods purchased at another store, but if I do, the stuff in my bag is mine. It became mine when I purchased it. It's not any business of Best Buy or Circuit City if I purchased something somewhere else, and it's not their business to see what I bought, how much I paid for it, how I paid for it, or any thing else having to do with the transaction. If I walk into Circuit City or Best Buy, or FYE or whatever the store is and I don't have a receipt in the bag but am carrying a bag from another store with items that don't have price tags from the store that I'm in then again there is no real justification for the store to ask to see my bag. If they want to have a loss prevention specialist follow me around, they can assign me a personal shopper and have them lead me to everything I want to buy, or at least have them tail me around the store. I may not like that they do that, but that's a lot less accusatory than demanding to see my property as I come or go through the front doors.


hmmm I wasn't really talking about if you bring in a bag...I didn't realize they look at bags you bring in. That's strange, never saw that before and I worked there for like 5 years. But what I was talking about is if you buy something from there then yes they will check your bag, of course most of the time they don't, but sometimes they do.


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## webin (Feb 13, 2008)

Amazon.com has never once asked to look in my bags.

Newegg.... well.... I won't go there.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

scott816 said:


> I agree you have a right to ask to see a persons receipt and to ask to look in their bag(s), they do not have to comply though. You can't force them to comply. If the store has evidence that a person on their property is stealing they can hold the person until the police arrive and the police will investigate (look in the bags...). However, if the store has falsely accused a person of stealing they are at great risk of being sued. Failing to comply is not evidence of guilt.
> 
> You sure can ask a person to leave and like you said call the police to have them escorted out. The police doing the escorting is the key i think . the store is at risk if the physically try to remove someone from the premises. The police on the other hand can remove you suing force.


That's not true. They can't "hold" you. You are free to leave whenever you want. When I worked retail it was sometimes frustrating when you knew someone was stealing but they knew the game and would just take off.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

tevoisseur said:


> I do not purchase or even think about purchasing from Radio Shack for this very reason.


Radio Shack has dropped their always-take-your-name policy, for some years now.



EVizzle said:


> There is a government requirement for information regarding pay go users, and there is a limit on the number of pay go phones per customer (2).


Citation?

Until recently, when I gave them my credit card info for my own convenience, my prepaid phone provider had no verifiable information about me. They had my name, but I could've given any name.


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## EVizzle (Feb 13, 2005)

wmcbrine said:


> Citation?


I will look for it...

Edit: So after a bunch of hunting, I was unable to find any real answers. Limits were often mentioned, and laws were talked about, but no definitive answers. Wal-mart popped up a bunch, but I didn't see anything really outlining laws or rules for this. A couple of news articles, but nothing concrete.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Stores like Best Buy have no legal right to ask you to show your receipt. You can absolutely refuse. If they detain you, that is false imprisonment.

Coscto is different because of the memebership agreement.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

cwsqbm said:


> If they're not checking ID's, do what I've done since Radio Shack started asking many years ago - fake name, fake address, and fake phone number, etc. It elminiates any questions and I get left alone.


I won't give out my personal info either unless someone gives me what I consider a valid acceptable (to me) reason for me to do so.

As far as Radio Shack is concerned the local stores don't even ask any more. But when they used to say "May I have your name and phone number?" I simply responded "No." I have to admit I loved seeing the shocked look on many of the clerks' faces.

I can't believe how readily most people will give out personal information. Pure stupidity IMHO.


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## dylanemcgregor (Jan 31, 2003)

RoyK said:


> I can't believe how readily most people will give out personal information. Pure stupidity IMHO.


I know I disagree with you on a couple of things with regards to ads on TiVO. But we're in total agreement here. :up:


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## rckstrang (Jul 8, 2008)

Adam1115 said:


> That title is flat out a lie, and purposely misleading.
> -
> Best Buy refused to sell you a TiVo, Cash, with no information.
> 
> The don't refuse to sell TiVo's...


:up:Totally agree. I thought I was going to see a thread about Best Buy either steering customers away from TiVo or flat on out refusing.


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## spolebitski (Mar 30, 2006)

dswallow said:


> Most of the time the door security just nods me through the door after a purchase; they're in view of the cashiers and see if you're coming from one and have made a purchase; no need to check bags when they see the bags filled in the first place by the cashier.
> 
> They do provide an important service for people making returns... identifying that you did indeed bring the return in from outside with you, rather than picking up one off the shelf and "returning" it.


I notice half the time they are just going through the motions, and not really checking the receipt or the items in the bag. They do it just so the camera sees them "doing their job".


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

I was in a best buy last week for n in store pick up I arranged over the web. Just some small items. I dashed out at lunch to pick them up and did not print out the confirming order picked and ready email.

I get there and the clerk rudely gives me grief. I apologize for not having it and asked her 3 times "can she just look, please" She was keen on saying without the printout I could not get the items. I show her my Id and credit card and say these will validate I made the order please get the items. She mutters off and keeps going between 2 places and just kind of casually looking. The place is not busy at the time and there was not much in the way of pickup packages.

I think she was in some bizarre way enforcing this - no paper, no sale policy. Anyway after 5 minutes of watching her I saw a store manager, informed him I had no intention of shopping under such circumstances (gave him the details) and left as I had a 1pm meeting to call into. After the meeting I puled up New Egg and got the items for a little less delivered. I just have to wait a few days for them, though I need them sooner which is why I was going in store pickup to begin with.

Best Buy needs to revisit its policies and do a little training on working to make the sale versus working to NOT make the sale.


PS - receipt checking does not bother me - though I wonder who has the Phone number that Circuit City routinely asks me for


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## spolebitski (Mar 30, 2006)

I agree that we give up our personal information to easily. We should be more careful about what we are giving out. Don't think for a minute that some criminals have looked at getting a low level retail job so they have access to indefinable information?

I remember a while back that some CST at dell used credit cards number to purchase items, how dangerous is giving your credit card to a waiter (who then takes it somewhere to scan).

The point is we give this information out so easily and I think we need to wonder do they really need that information for what i am doing?


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## leemoreau (Aug 1, 2008)

It's just like when I went to buy my ExpressVu in Canada, Bell doesn't even let a retailer sell a receiver unless it's activated on an account. So you either have to sign up for a 1 year contract with ExpressVu while at the store before they let you leave, or you have to provide your existing ExpressVu account number and have them activate the receiver on that. I really personally don't understand the whole ordeal though I think some people just like to complain. Like you're going to go home and provide all that info to TiVo anyway, who cares if BestBuy has it. Are you afraid of getting telemarketed or something? Just give a wrong phone number or I'll give my work phone versus home or cell, but like what do you really think is going to happen with your information? You think there's some government agency sitting there "Oh look at that, John Smith just bought a TiVo HD at BestBuy" like really does it matter?


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## dylanemcgregor (Jan 31, 2003)

leemoreau said:


> I really personally don't understand the whole ordeal though I think some people just like to complain. Like you're going to go home and provide all that info to TiVo anyway, who cares if BestBuy has it. Are you afraid of getting telemarketed or something? Just give a wrong phone number or I'll give my work phone versus home or cell, but like what do you really think is going to happen with your information?


I pretty rarely give out personal info, but my girlfriend doesn't think twice if asked. After she bought something at BB a couple of years ago she gave them her address, and would get some mailer from them pretty much every month.

I can go a good month without getting a single piece of mail (except Netflix).


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## scott816 (Feb 6, 2005)

In almost all jurisdictions in the United States, merchants are legally empowered to detain shoplifting suspects for investigation and possible arrest and prosecution in the criminal justice system. This power is called "merchants privilege." It sounds like your store had a policy in place to "not pursue". Frequently merchants put in place visible deterrents like security guards, visible cameras, RFID scanners and signs threatening prosecution under the law try to deter shoplifters, but they also have a policy of non confrontation. To detain a suspect shoplifter there are very specific observations that should be met to help shield the merchant from being sued.



aadam101 said:


> That's not true. They can't "hold" you. You are free to leave whenever you want. When I worked retail it was sometimes frustrating when you knew someone was stealing but they knew the game and would just take off.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

On everything you wrote below I agree with you 100%. A storekeeper/owner/manager can't FORCE anyone to do anything they do not want to do but you certainly have the LEGAL RIGHT to ask to look which was my point when all the wannabe legal expert say "it's illegal." Being a business owner for over 35 years and working for a major chain after that you can be sure I am aware of what my rights are. You have to be very careful in the way you do it that you don't discriminate due to race etc. The main reason for the checking however isn't to catch a thief but to prevent theft. Just like the "security code 123435 to the front desk" announcements you hear over the speaker systems in some stores in urban areas.



scott816 said:


> I agree you have a right to ask to see a persons receipt and to ask to look in their bag(s), they do not have to comply though. You can't force them to comply. If the store has evidence that a person on their property is stealing they can hold the person until the police arrive and the police will investigate (look in the bags...). However, if the store has falsely accused a person of stealing they are at great risk of being sued. Failing to comply is not evidence of guilt.
> 
> You sure can ask a person to leave and like you said call the police to have them escorted out. The police doing the escorting is the key i think . the store is at risk if the physically try to remove someone from the premises. The police on the other hand can remove you suing force.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

The phone numbers are for demographic statistics. They want to see where you are coming from (how far you travel) to go to their store. I will always give my proper exchange but never the correct last 4 digits.

What is REALLY invasive is the supermarket "shoppers club" cards that you scan every time you check out in order to get sale prices.



ZeoTiVo said:


> PS - receipt checking does not bother me - though I wonder who has the Phone number that Circuit City routinely asks me for


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

You are so very wrong. They have ALL the LEGAL right to ask (it's NOT ILLEGAL). You certainly have the legal right refuse if you wish. LOL, it's only "false imprisonment" if you've been "falsely imprisoned."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thecheckout/2007/03/checking_your_receipt_or_check.html

Edit: This one is even better: http://legallad.quickanddirtytips.com/store-security-and-your-rights.aspx



Turtleboy said:


> Stores like Best Buy have no legal right to ask you to show your receipt. You can absolutely refuse. If they detain you, that is false imprisonment.
> 
> Coscto is different because of the memebership agreement.


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## porges (Feb 28, 2001)

Put me down as "completely don't care if they look in my bag at exit". They don't trust me? Of _course_ they don't trust me! They don't know me! I don't trust them, either! So when I pay cash for something (anywhere), I count the change and I don't expect the cashier to get insulted by it.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

EVizzle said:


> That is a pretty loose definition of telling someone to "stick it"... if you meant that initially I think you should have said so.
> 
> Another example: Let's say you go around your city, buying up Tivos and paying cash for them. You open up the boxes, pull out the product, fill the box back up with books for weight, and reseal the box. You return the Tivos with your receipt, and because you paid cash and gave no personal information, you get away. The next customer buys this, but has to return it to the store because the box was stuffed with books instead of a tivo. Without any data, the store must eat the cost. If you use a credit card or provide personal information, they can look at your purchase record and see that you have purchased 200 Tivos, returned them all, and then the store started to have problems with missing product, and could link it to you.
> 
> Cash is more and more a tool of illegal and unethical behavior. It is a shame, but it is a fact. If we didn't have criminals, we wouldn't have to put up with annoyances like receipts being checked, or providing personal information for everyday purchases.


Try returning something to Best Buy that you paid cash for, you have to wait two weeks and you will get a check from Best Buy, so if you think that with cash you should not give correct personal information, if so than you will never be able to return the item. On a TiVo you do not start a sub when you purchase the unit at Best Buy because the TiVo could be a gift or for someone else or used in your own TiVo account using MSD. They do want the service number (sometimes) for returns and because Best Buy may (only a guess on my part) get some compensation when service is started on that TiVo by anybody.

The web sight just informs you that the TiVo does require service to work, you do not purchase that service from Best Buy.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

ZeoTiVo said:


> though I wonder who has the Phone number that Circuit City routinely asks me for


It's used to associate all your info to your order without being asked for it repeatedly; and it provides a way for you to deal with store returns/DOAs without your receipt since they can then retrieve the order with your phone numbers.


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## Tom White (Feb 3, 2008)

scott816 said:


> I tried to buy a HD TIVO yesterday at BestBuy and BestBuy refused to sell me one. During checkout the women ringing me up asked for my name, number address... i asked her why she needed it and she informed me that Tivo requires it. WTF?
> 
> I was paying cash so why do they need my information? the manager was called over to the register and he also demanded my contact information. I told him i was paying cash and he told me it doesn't matter. He informed me that this was TIVO'S policy and that his hands were tied. When i refused to give him my information he took the HD TIVO and said that i could not purchase it and walked off!! WTF? My wife and I walked out of the store stunned. We drove over to the local circuit city and bought one without any questions asked. So what the hell is going on? Is this a TIVO issue or a Bestbuy issue?
> 
> Everytime i go into bestbuy it seems that i walk out either angry or stunned these days. I really can not stand having my purchased bagged items checked when i leave the store. I find it to be an invasion of my privacy but that is whole different story.


I had a similar experience at Best Buy in Bloomington, Indiana when I was buying a satellite radio.

They informed me it was required. I informed them it was an illegal practice.

They (the store manager) finally did relent when I repeatedly told them about the illegality of what they were doing. He originally tried to say it was the satellite radio company's requirement, and I told him that was BS. I got XM on the phone (while still at the store) and they confirmed I was correct that they were not requiring stores to do this.


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## tevoisseur (Jul 12, 2008)

I returned a $5 item (with receipt, paid cash) about 2 years ago and they required personal information. I've not shopped with them since.



wmcbrine said:


> Radio Shack has dropped their always-take-your-name policy, for some years now.


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## dylanemcgregor (Jan 31, 2003)

dswallow said:


> It's used to associate all your info to your order without being asked for it repeatedly; and it provides a way for you to deal with store returns/DOAs without your receipt since they can then retrieve the order with your phone numbers.


I believe Zeo was implying that the number he gives to Circuit City does not actually belong to him...but perhaps belongs to another person...


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## tevoisseur (Jul 12, 2008)

That's my defintion and it works the same either way, I'm leaving and I'm not playing your game, it all works the same. So, whatever.

Since BB always checks the contents that you are bringing, then I'm not sure what the problem is. I took back the same model of Toshiba laptop to them for a dead pixel (3 times) and each time they actually verified that there was a dead pixel. So, your idea of them needing personal information to protect themselves from fraud is a bit out there.

If they don't check the contents right then and there, then what protects YOU from their coming back and saying that you did not give them a box of bricks?

Cash is unethical, come on. Next thing you are going to say is that only people of certain races carry cash.



EVizzle said:


> That is a pretty loose definition of telling someone to "stick it"... if you meant that initially I think you should have said so.
> 
> Another example: Let's say you go around your city, buying up Tivos and paying cash for them. You open up the boxes, pull out the product, fill the box back up with books for weight, and reseal the box. You return the Tivos with your receipt, and because you paid cash and gave no personal information, you get away. The next customer buys this, but has to return it to the store because the box was stuffed with books instead of a tivo. Without any data, the store must eat the cost. If you use a credit card or provide personal information, they can look at your purchase record and see that you have purchased 200 Tivos, returned them all, and then the store started to have problems with missing product, and could link it to you.
> 
> Cash is more and more a tool of illegal and unethical behavior. It is a shame, but it is a fact. If we didn't have criminals, we wouldn't have to put up with annoyances like receipts being checked, or providing personal information for everyday purchases.


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## Budget_HT (Jan 2, 2001)

dswallow said:


> It's used to associate all your info to your order without being asked for it repeatedly; and it provides a way for you to deal with store returns/DOAs without your receipt since they can then retrieve the order with your phone numbers.


I have purchased a fair amount of home theater equipment over the years at CC. I am happy to identify myself (by phone number or whatever) because it allows them to see how much I have spent with them when I ask for (and almost always receive) a lower than asking price on big ticket items.


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

lessd said:


> Try returning something to Best Buy that you paid cash for, you have to wait two weeks and you will get a check from Best Buy,


I find that difficult to believe. Good to know, if true.

I pay for a lot of things with cash. I have ALWAYS received cash for returns on items purchased with cash. (I'm not talking about BB)
For those of you worried about returning things without a receipt - is it really that difficult to keep your receipts? I don't have that problem.

I also refuse to give personal info on cash purchases. It is not necessary. My phone number is unlisted, and I want to keep it that way.

Even when RadioShack was pushing for personal info, they never flat out refused the sale when I told them my number was unlisted and that I do not give it out. They ultimately sold me the item, informing me that I should be careful not to lose the receipt. I thanked them for the warning, and assured them that I am quite responsible with my receipts (are we 5 years old or something?).

I also scan all important receipts into PDF's for easy searching. I don't rely on stores to keep track of my purchasing info for me. If you have trouble hanging on to receipts, I suppose it is wise to give all the personal info you can. I'm curious though, how do you find out exactly when something was purchased for warranty purposes? Call the store?

As to receipt checking and bag checking, I couldn't care less. I am not a thief, have nothing to hide, and don't take it personally. After all, they didn't pick me out because I look like a thief - they are checking everyone. As others have already noted, most of them are going through the motions and not doing diligent checking. It's intended as a deterrent.

So, I have reasons to protect my personal info, but there is no harm to me in the receipt checking which usually takes but a second or two.

P.S. - The title of this thread is a lie, as they were not refusing to sell the TiVo. They were only insisting that it be purchased under specific terms. You chose not to purchase under their terms and go elsewhere - which is a perfectly acceptable response, but the false thread title was unnecessary.

Jim H.


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## etz (Sep 8, 2006)

incog-neato said:


> What is REALLY invasive is the supermarket "shoppers club" cards that you scan every time you check out in order to get sale prices.


I have a swipe card that I found in the parking lot which I keep in in my car's glovebox for when I go to the supermarket. But It turned out I would forget it in the car just about every time.

I quickly learned that I could just ask the cashier "do you have a card you can swipe for me?". They just punch a button on the register and I get all the discounts with none of the invasive tracking. I haven't actually touched the supermarket card in a few years now since I really don't need it. One downside is that this approach is not nearly as convenient if opting to use the self-checkout registers since you have to first get the attention of the pit-boss to apply a card. Sometimes I just ask someone else who's online to swipe for me, or I just go to a human-staffed register.


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## tevoisseur (Jul 12, 2008)

A lot of stores have changed their policy with regard to these cards (removed them entirely). I guess enough people complained about it.



etz said:


> I have a swipe card that I found in the parking lot which I keep in in my car's glovebox for when I go to the supermarket. But It turned out I would forget it in the car just about every time.
> 
> I quickly learned that I could just ask the cashier "do you have a card you can swipe for me?". They just punch a button on the register and I get all the discounts with none of the invasive tracking. I haven't actually touched the supermarket card in a few years now since I really don't need it. One downside is that this approach is not nearly as convenient if opting to use the self-checkout registers since you have to first get the attention of the pit-boss to apply a card. Sometimes I just ask someone else who's online to swipe for me, or I just go to a human-staffed register.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Around here the stores regularly give out freebies as you reach certain purchase levels for given periods, such as a free turkey or ham around Thanksgiving for buying $300 or so worth of groceries over the 6 or 8 weeks prior, et. al. Some a couple tiers... different size turkeys depending on your purchase total. They've done such things at other times, too.

Most can also look up your store discount membership number using your phone number, if you forget your card.


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

dswallow said:


> Around here the stores regularly give out freebies as you reach certain purchase levels for given periods, such as a free turkey or ham around Thanksgiving for buying $300 or so worth of groceries over the 6 or 8 weeks prior, et. al. Some a couple tiers... different size turkeys depending on your purchase total. They've done such things at other times, too.
> 
> Most can also look up your store discount membership number using your phone number, if you forget your card.


I guess it boils down to weighing the benefits of minimizing (as it's impossible to completely eliminate) the exposure of your personal information, against the benefits you would otherwise enjoy.

Of course there is a reason why the merchants will try to entice/pressure/bribe you to cough it up. Despite what the cashier says, it is NOT because they want to make it easy for you to return things.

Jim H.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

incog-neato said:


> The phone numbers are for demographic statistics. They want to see where you are coming from (how far you travel) to go to their store. I will always give my proper exchange but never the correct last 4 digits.
> 
> What is REALLY invasive is the supermarket "shoppers club" cards that you scan every time you check out in order to get sale prices.


I can understand that 10-15 years ago but these days a phone number doesn't tell anyone where you are. You can choose any phone number you want. Area codes don't really mean that much. Why not ask for your zip code instead?


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## EVizzle (Feb 13, 2005)

tevoisseur said:


> Since BB always checks the contents that you are bringing, then I'm not sure what the problem is. I took back the same model of Toshiba laptop to them for a dead pixel (3 times) and each time they actually verified that there was a dead pixel. So, your idea of them needing personal information to protect themselves from fraud is a bit out there.
> 
> If they don't check the contents right then and there, then what protects YOU from their coming back and saying that you did not give them a box of bricks?
> 
> Cash is unethical, come on. Next thing you are going to say is that only people of certain races carry cash.


If the box appears to be SEALED, they do not open the box up... that is how many scams work. If you swapped out the tivo for a bunch of books and were able to reseal the box, you would be home free...

As for your final statment, please. I in no way said anything racist, nor anything about a particular race at all. How many drugs are bought with cash? How many scams on craigslist involve cash? How many tax evading schemes involve cash? Pretty much all of them...

Why would someone not want to carry less cash and use a credit card if they were concerned about their own safety? Do you really want to carry around hundreds of dollars everywhere you go? Yes, some people use cash because they prefer it, but since it is much harder to trace, it is easier to stay anonymous.


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## jjberger2134 (Nov 20, 2002)

lessd said:


> Try returning something to Best Buy that you paid cash for, you have to wait two weeks and you will get a check from Best Buy, so if you think that with cash you should not give correct personal information, if so than you will never be able to return the item. O





jhimmel said:


> I find that difficult to believe. Good to know, if true.


FYI -

lessd - Not exactly 100% correct.

Best Buy return Policy from their web site....

*Refund method
Refund will be in the same form as original purchase. Exceptions: Cash, debit or check purchases over $250 will be refunded in the form of a mail check within 10 business days of return.*

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?type=page&contentId=1117177044087&id=cat12098

So you need to provide personal info only for cash refunds over $250


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## moonscape (Jul 3, 2004)

i understand why they want to check bags/purchases when exiting - and i'm used to it from both costco and fry's electronics. with the huge loss they suffer from shoplifters, i don't blame them.

i do, however, object to having to give personal information when i purchase with cash. i stopped shopping at radio shack years ago because of it.

the most remarkable example of this was when i was in western NC and stopped into a dry cleaners to buy one of those sticky roller things to get lint/stuff off clothes. it cost $5 and i pulled out cash. he wanted my phone number for the computer and i refused, said i just wanted to purchase that small item. was in a mood where it was principle and i wouldn't - and he wouldn't sell the item without it so i left.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

dswallow said:


> Around here the stores regularly give out freebies as you reach certain purchase levels for given periods, such as a free turkey...


BB has been handing out turkeys disguised as electronics advice for years....


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

I willingly always allow Best Buy to check bags and receipts when I leave the store and I don't recall ever walking in with anything in my hands other than a defective product for return and I hand that to the person in front to put a pink sticker on. I also have no problem giving Best Buy personal information as requested although I think usually all that is necessary is my Reward Zone number. All of the complaints about these things sure seem silly to me. As far as Circuit City, I am reluctant to purchase anything there currently due to the company's grave financial condition, although for competition's sake, I hope the company can pull out of the tailspin.

I have purchased TiVo products at Best Buy without complaint.

Chris


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

EVizzle said:


> How many drugs are bought with cash? How many scams on craigslist involve cash? How many tax evading schemes involve cash? Pretty much all of them...


Wow. Because drugs are bought with cash, cash is evil?
Ever heard of credit card scams? Identity theft?



EVizzle said:


> Why would someone not want to carry less cash and use a credit card if they were concerned about their own safety?


Are we somehow safer if we get mugged with no cash?
I'd even argue that I would rather lose $200 than have do deal with the hassles of possible compromised identity (possibly for years) from the loss of credit cards.

This whole debate is going off the deep end. Some people like to keep their private info private, and have no problem carrying cash - like has been done for generations. It's as simple as that, no big a deal. Many of us have been hassled relentlessly by marketing because of personal info that is distributed too freely. It is also not unheard of for that information to be obtained by, and used by, unscrupulous people. I'd just prefer not to give it out if not necessary, that's all. Cash is still legal tender in this country, and hopefully will remain so.

Jim H.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

jjberger2134 said:


> FYI -
> 
> lessd - Not exactly 100% correct.
> 
> ...


You are correct but I was on this threads TiVo thing and I knew that the TiVo cost more than $250 at BB but I should have been more careful with my words and 10 business days is two weeks


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## tevoisseur (Jul 12, 2008)

It would more or less be implied by your statements about the evils of cash.



EVizzle said:


> As for your final statment, please. I in no way said anything racist, nor anything about a particular race at all.


And there's not a thing wrong with that.


> Yes, some people use cash because they prefer it, but since it is much harder to trace, it is easier to stay anonymous.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

No one from Tivo has any comment? In my own retail experience I have met quite a few people who flat out refused to give their information. Luckliy the companies I worked for had a workaround where the customer still was able to receive the same benefit had they given their information. BB doesn't seem to have this workaround and it's costing Tivo money.


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## Martyp (Jan 6, 2004)

Well having worked the front of the store in home theater and now working the back and the LP desk up front.

Here is the deal .

Its all in the computer . If it ask for the ser# of something you have to scan it . Tivo and best buy want to make sure that every unit sold gets turned on so you have to provided the info . Best buy gets a small cut for every unit turned on .

If you buy a say a directv box you must give your info and sign saying that if its not turned on you will pay more money .

It does help on return fraud when you scan the ser# on stuff like boxes ,play stations and such .

We only ask to look in your shopping bag never your purse or backpack.

Now if you work for the company you must have your jacket,purse ,lunch box or back pack opened . We do not pat down employees .

You do have the choice of buying your things other places .


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Martyp said:


> ............
> 
> Here is the deal .
> 
> Its all in the computer . If it ask for the ser# of something you have to scan it . Tivo and best buy want to make sure that every unit sold gets turned on so you have to provided the info . Best buy gets a small cut for every unit turned on ...........


The serial number scan is fine with me. It prints on the receipt and facilitates a return. What I do object to is being required to divulge personal info which I will not do for a cash transaction or give false info which I also refuse to do.

BB advertises a price and should sell it for that price no ifs ands or buts about it. If divulging personal information is required to get that price then it should be clearly stated in the advertising.



Martyp said:


> You do have the choice of buying your things other places .


I will.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

Cannot speak for other states, but in California, you cannot be physically detained upon leaving the store unless the store has some probable cause (CA Penal Code section 490.5). For example, actually seeing you stuff something under your jacket They can ask all they want, but they will get into big trouble if they physically try to detain you unless they have reason to believe that you stole something. And the refusal itself to submit to a search is specifically disallowed as such a cause. Even Costco cannot physically detain you, but they then have the right to revoke your membership (and thus your right to shop there) if you refuse to submit to the search. IANAL, but this is what I gathered from lawyer Web sites and newspaper consumer hotlines.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

RoyK said:


> The serial number scan is fine with me. It prints on the receipt and facilitates a return. What I do object to is being required to divulge personal info which I will not do for a cash transaction or give false info which I also refuse to do.
> 
> BB advertises a price and should sell it for that price no ifs ands or buts about it. If divulging personal information is required to get that price then it should be clearly stated in the advertising.
> 
> I will.


I think the only fair thing to do is require the CEO and share holders personal information as well. Once you are done you can call their cell phones and let the know how great you think BB is!


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## tivoman (Feb 23, 2002)

jjberger2134 said:


> FYI -
> 
> lessd - Not exactly 100% correct.
> 
> ...


The refund for debit cards must be new, I remember about 2 or 3 years ago when I returned an item that I paid by debit card (pin used) (with Visa logo) they didn't give me cash back, instead they credited my account as a Visa credit.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

dswallow said:


> In any case, I would have to also say you just made a completely unnecessary nuisance of yourself for making such a big deal over it and wasted more of your own time than it was worth. Why some people get such a bug up their ass over such "privacy" issues just escapes me.


I completely disagree. There's no reason for it, certainly no need to give up personal info just to make a purchase.

I walked out of a Circuit City several years back when they wanted my info when I was trying to buy a hard drive. They flat out refused to sell it to me so I went to another store and bought the drive there (I now avoid CC when possible anyway as they have some really nasty issues, have fired masses of employees to rehire cheaper ones, etc.)

Normally I've actually had much better experiences at Best Buy, but I guess it must vary. Maybe the "regional" people handling stores in this area are just a lot more sensible than in other areas.


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## Martyp (Jan 6, 2004)

Well as I just give breaks to the people at the door , If you just say no when asked if I may see you receipt all we can do is say have a good day . 

The only reason they ask to check is make sure you and the cashier and not in a thing to scam the store . Where you pay say for a cd but get a bluray box set or maybe you did a upc switch ( folks really do try this ). The only place I mind them doing this is wally world because they do not ask everyone.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

LOL, California doesn't count. they do everything strange (including their Gov  )


CharlesH said:


> Cannot speak for other states, but in California, you cannot be physically detained upon leaving the store unless the store has some probable cause (CA Penal Code section 490.5). For example, actually seeing you stuff something under your jacket They can ask all they want, but they will get into big trouble if they physically try to detain you unless they have reason to believe that you stole something. And the refusal itself to submit to a search is specifically disallowed as such a cause. Even Costco cannot physically detain you, but they then have the right to revoke your membership (and thus your right to shop there) if you refuse to submit to the search. IANAL, but this is what I gathered from lawyer Web sites and newspaper consumer hotlines.


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## ThreeSoFar'sBro (Oct 10, 2004)

IANAL, but I'd have to assume every state requires probable cause to detain people. Think of the results otherwise.


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## tayl0124 (Mar 18, 2005)

> Until recently, when I gave them my credit card info for my own convenience, my prepaid phone provider had no verifiable information about me. They had my name, but I could've given any name.


Really??? Don't you understand that buy having your credit card number they automatically have your name and address????


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## EVizzle (Feb 13, 2005)

jhimmel said:


> Cash is still legal tender in this country, and hopefully will remain so.
> 
> Jim H.


My last comment and then I will be done. Try to buy an iphone with cash.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

EVizzle said:


> My last comment and then I will be done. Try to buy an iphone with cash.


My iPhone is available to anyone who wishes to buy for US$1,000 cash.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

tayl0124 said:


> Really??? Don't you understand that buy having your credit card number they automatically have your name and address????


Yes, I do understand. Try reading what I wrote again. I had my phone for a couple years before they had my credit card number. (I paid for service using cards I bought in stores.)

Edit: I think I see how you're misreading this sentence:



> Until recently, when I gave them my credit card info for my own convenience, my prepaid phone provider had no verifiable information about me.


Try it this way:



> Recently, I gave my prepaid phone provider my credit card info for the first time, for my own convenience. Prior to that, they had no verifiable information about me.


The "when" in the first quoted sentence does _not_ mean "whenever". Rather, it explains what happened "recently". The clause could be omitted:



> Until recently, my prepaid phone provider had no verifiable information about me.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I was in a best buy last week for n in store pick up I arranged over the web. Just some small items. I dashed out at lunch to pick them up and did not print out the confirming order picked and ready email.
> 
> I get there and the clerk rudely gives me grief. I apologize for not having it and asked her 3 times "can she just look, please" She was keen on saying without the printout I could not get the items.


just for grins I had to post this reply from Best Buy when I sent an email about the "experience" above



BB or some Nigerian scammer said:


> This is Emily with Best Buy Customer Care.
> I don't have words not even way to apologize for this bad experience you
> had with that store employee trying to pick your order. I can't
> understand that lack of assistance and not willingness to help the
> ...


 Thankfully it did not involve sending a money order to Nigeria. However the two options were - we can pick the items as available at TWO other stores and you can pick them up. Or we will ship and cover the shipping.

I replied that my being met with a rude attitudes and unreasonable adherence to some policy will cost any company far more than some shipping costs.


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

EVizzle said:


> My last comment and then I will be done. Try to buy an iphone with cash.


I am not interested in an iphone, and I never said that I make ALL purchases with cash. I'm not sure what the relevance of your statement is. When I make cash purchases, I don't hand over personal info. It just isn't necessary, and I choose not to. If I was interested in an iphone, I would simply have to decide if I wanted it badly enough to comply with their terms and fork over my info. Sometimes I do.

I have no problem with your handling of you own personal info. You could plaster it all over billboards for all I care. I have taken several steps to reduce my exposure over the last few years. Some benefits have been obvious (less marketing garbage) - others I may never know (use of that info for criminal activity). To each his own...

Jim H.


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## leemoreau (Aug 1, 2008)

No retail employee is going to detain someone when they have NO proof that they stole something, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. This discussion is so ridiculous, the people who don't give information out when paying cash. I'm guessing you must be over 50, never shop online either, and never use telephone banking since that's not safe either. Do you walk to the cash register at a restaurant when paying my credit card too, just to make sure they aren't copying your card as well? Who uses cash anyway. If I shop at BestBuy, I WANT to get the BestBuy flyer in the mail! Like come on, you make it sound like giving out your personal information results in your mailbox overflowing every day with 100 pieces of mail you don't want. Is it really that hard to throw out the few pieces that don't interest you? There are people that just walk around putting flyers in mail boxes too, you don't even have to sign up or give any information out for that.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

leemoreau said:


> No retail employee is going to detain someone when they have NO proof that they stole something, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. This discussion is so ridiculous, the people who don't give information out when paying cash. I'm guessing you must be over 50, never shop online either, and never use telephone banking since that's not safe either. Do you walk to the cash register at a restaurant when paying my credit card too, just to make sure they aren't copying your card as well? Who uses cash anyway. If I shop at BestBuy, I WANT to get the BestBuy flyer in the mail! Like come on, you make it sound like giving out your personal information results in your mailbox overflowing every day with 100 pieces of mail you don't want. Is it really that hard to throw out the few pieces that don't interest you? There are people that just walk around putting flyers in mail boxes too, you don't even have to sign up or give any information out for that.


It sounds like you really don't understand how serious the privacy issue is (and getting more so with each passing year). We all choose to submit when it comes to this issue to one degree or another, but it's a personal choice, and there's no reason to submit for...well, no reason, as in the case of buying something from a store.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Puppy76 said:


> It sounds like you really don't understand how serious the privacy issue is (and getting more so with each passing year). We all choose to submit when it comes to this issue to one degree or another, but it's a personal choice, and there's no reason to submit for...well, no reason, as in the case of buying something from a store.


It sounds more likely you're ascribing privacy issue problems to the wrong sources.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Nope. Lots of sources of privacy issue problems


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## TWinbrook46636 (Feb 9, 2008)

tevoisseur said:


> I returned a $5 item (with receipt, paid cash) about 2 years ago and they required personal information. I've not shopped with them since.


Stores do this because people steal merchandise from one store location, print up a fake receipt (always shows they paid in cash) and then return the stolen merchandise to another store location to get a refund.

People, you need to get a grip. These stores lose a tremendous amount of money due to shoplifters. You can't seriously get offended when they ask to look in your bag when people routinely try to sneak extra merchandise out that way. You're just making everyone's lives miserable by making a stink about it. I've seen people filling up paper shredders with merchandise and going through checkout with them. They don't get out the door thanks to the security. If you want to blame someone blame the criminals that forced the use of these security measures in the first place. Stop enabling them with your "you can have my bag when you pry it from my cold dead fingers" attitude.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

TWinbrook46636 said:


> Stores do this because people steal merchandise from one store location, print up a fake receipt (always shows they paid in cash) and then return the stolen merchandise to another store location to get a refund.


Also it helps them find patterns of someone who does it more often than usual, etc..

I think many people just do not realize how adapted criminals are to store policies and how much thievery of a "make a living at it" kind goes on. Stores can obviously not rely on police presence as all our taxes would go through the roof to provide enough resources. As such, stores need to take charge of it themselves to the degree they think makes business sense.

If part of that is someone being at the door on the way in or out and making reasonable inquiries about what i am carrying in or out of their store then I find that acceptable a a customer myself. Indeed it even speaks to me of a store being responsible and not just passing theft costs on to me, the consumer, without trying to do anything about it.

PS - I gave Circuit City a wrong last 4 digits back when as I thought they would telemarket me. The rest of the info, such as my address and so forth is correct. I like to get flyers on things that interest me such as tech junk, just not at all a fan of phone sales. This does make me an easier mark for ID theft and I have to fight that with credit watch service, etc.. I will not live a more convoluted life though to keep my identity low profile, I would like a grocery store that scans me on the way in and asks if they should have my usual stuff waiting at the counter for me. This is a case where I want the stores to understnad my shopping needs and makeit better for me.


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## 702 (Feb 9, 2003)

ThreeSoFar'sBro said:


> I have to admit, BB is pissing me off more lately, too. From their "Hi, what's your name?" to their having to check you out before you leave....
> 
> One of these days they're going to catch me in a bad mood, and I will make a huge deal of it on the way out. It's not Costco--they can't make you show them your receipt on the way out.


I walk right past the checkers. All the time.


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## 702 (Feb 9, 2003)

incog-neato said:


> Of course they can make you show them your receipt and/or check your bags. Why can Costco and not BB? What law states they can't try to "protect" their property? They also can throw you out of the store if they don't like you (I can personally vouch for that). It's private property. What they can't do is discriminate based on race or color, but they can even put you through a metal detector if they want. Of course, you don't have to shop there. That is your right to protest by withholding your business. If you put up a stink and cause a disturbance they have the right to call the police and have you escorted out of the store ..... which is exactly what happened to me. I wanted to sue, but my uncle, who was a civil rights attorney, told me it was perfectly permissible unless they had me falsely arrested.


You agree to the search by signing up for Costco. Yes they can 86 you from the store, but they need probable cause to search.


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## 702 (Feb 9, 2003)

RebeccaD7 said:


> I'm not understanding why everyone here doesn't like that Best Buy checks their bag...it's a security measure, and I think it's pretty justifiable. If you purchase something in the computer section, it's pretty easy to then just throw something else from the store in your bag without paying for it. That is why they check your reciept at the door. What is the big deal? They look at your reciept, look at your bag, your done.


They check it to make sure you are not in cahoots with the check out person. Ring up bottle of water walk out with iPod. Regardless not my problem and I still tell checkers to pound sand.


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## 702 (Feb 9, 2003)

tevoisseur said:


> I do not purchase or even think about purchasing from Radio Shack for this very reason.


Radio shack quick doing this years ago. In fact they had a big ad campaign about it.


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

leemoreau said:


> This discussion is so ridiculous, the people who don't give information out when paying cash. I'm guessing you must be over 50, never shop online either, and never use telephone banking since that's not safe either.


Limiting your exposure is just good common sense.
Sounds like you have a lot to learn, maybe even from some of those people over 50? I -sincerely- hope that you do NOT learn the hard way.

You are right, there are lots of ways that your safety could be compromised. the question is, why in the world would you make it worse if you didn't have to?

I often pay for things with cash, I never give them my personal info. I already stated that I have an unlisted number - what good is it if I give it out freely? I have never been refused a cash sale from any merchant just because I didn't want to give them my unlisted phone number.

I'll not go into the long story of the problems that I have had from people who used my personal info in a nefarious manner. It would be a long, boring story for you, but it was a major pain in the ass for me. Now I have an unlisted number, and I avoid giving it out whenever possible - as hard as that may be for you to understand.

Jim H.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

jhimmel said:


> Limiting your exposure is just good common sense.
> Sounds like you have a lot to learn, maybe even from some of those people over 50? I -sincerely- hope that you do NOT learn the hard way.
> 
> You are right, there are lots of ways that your safety could be compromised. the question is, why in the world would you make it worse if you didn't have to?
> ...


Unfortunatly I have been refused by a retailer-like I mentioned earlier, Circuit City, when I was just trying to buy a $120 hard drive. I was just flabbergasted, and went somewhere else.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Hay you cash lovers starting soon on E-Bay you will not be able to pay using any form of a check, (personal or bank check or money order) only a debt or credit card will be acceptable (If you have a PayPal account you can use that naturally) E-Bay sellers who don't go along with this new rule will be kicked off E-Bay. I use cash as little as possible BUT the right to use cash should not be slowly taken away from all of us just to try and stop illegal activity. Credit cards is one of the biggest cost of illegal activity today anyways.
As far as your personal information, anyone using an accountant may not understand that the non accounting staff in the office has an easy opportunity to look at all your information if they want to.


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## TerpBE (Jan 23, 2003)

incog-neato said:


> What is REALLY invasive is the supermarket "shoppers club" cards that you scan every time you check out in order to get sale prices.


So give them fake info when you sign up for the card. That's what I do.


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## tevoisseur (Jul 12, 2008)

And I still won't shop there unless I have to (only when they are the only store that has it).



702 said:


> Radio shack quick doing this years ago. In fact they had a big ad campaign about it.


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## tevoisseur (Jul 12, 2008)

I just don't buy that. They have people checking at the damn doors. So if there is theft then how is it occurring? Is it happening from employee theft? Well, then that's an internal problem that has nothing to do with the customer.



TWinbrook46636 said:


> Stores do this because people steal merchandise from one store location, print up a fake receipt (always shows they paid in cash) and then return the stolen merchandise to another store location to get a refund.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

tevoisseur said:


> I just don't buy that. They have people checking at the damn doors. So if there is theft then how is it occurring? Is it happening from employee theft? Well, then that's an internal problem that has nothing to do with the customer.


As many examples as get posted here of forum members doing such questionable things, I have no doubt at all that those with evil intentions (as opposed to those just with self-entitlement intentions) could and do try all sorts of things.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

tevoisseur said:


> I just don't buy that. They have people checking at the damn doors. So if there is theft then how is it occurring? Is it happening from employee theft? Well, then that's an internal problem that has nothing to do with the customer.


Why would anyone think the door checkers catch all theft going out the front door. They deter it greatly by being there but the motivated thief will figure out something. Plus employee theft is indeed a large issue as well.


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## tevoisseur (Jul 12, 2008)

And why would anyone think that they would be able to walk out with a Tivo, an HD TV, or a PS? Come on!!

You guys just easily buy into this. It's kind of like saying we really need to spend all the money we do on anti-terrorism and checking peoples shoes at the damn airport.



ZeoTiVo said:


> Why would anyone think the door checkers catch all theft going out the front door. They deter it greatly by being there but the motivated thief will figure out something. Plus employee theft is indeed a large issue as well.


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## CrashHD (Nov 10, 2006)

scott816 said:


> I tried to buy a HD TIVO yesterday at BestBuy and BestBuy refused to sell me one. During checkout the women ringing me up asked for my name, number address... i asked her why she needed it and she informed me that Tivo requires it. WTF?


Big deal. You were required to identify yourself. Ooooh! How dare they!

I wouldn't do business with someone who refused to identify his/herself. Why should best buy be expected to if they don't want to?


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## leemoreau (Aug 1, 2008)

Can I ask how many people here posting are from Canada? You Americans and your privacy issues its just out of this world. Blows me away how paranoid you all are. You make it sound like its such a hassle. I've had my debit card copied before and $2000 taken from my bank account. I called my bank, yes I had to go into the branch for a new card, but 2 days later the money was back in my account. I think the point you all fail to realize is that when you choose to shop in a store, you agree to their terms and conditions. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. You're buying a product or service, you accept the terms. Do you know how many billions are lost each year in shoplifting? It's the reason prices have to be higher to make up for the losses. I used to work at Apple, and people would all the time come in, grab $500 Microsoft Office off the shelf, come to the cash and say hi I bought this a week ago its sealed I lost my receipt but I want to return it. So we would have to give them a $500 gift certificate/store credit since no receipt. By taking your information and recording serial numbers, it prevents someone from picking up a TiVo off the shelf, saying hi I bought this here I want to return it, I have no receipt but a store credit is fine.


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## leemoreau (Aug 1, 2008)

I agree with CrashHD as well. Refusing to provide your information, that's like a HUGE flag for fraud right there. What are you trying to hide??? To me all that is is red flags going up, this is suspicious, customer paying cash for an expensive item, and refusing to give any details about themselves. As I said before too I worked at Apple, where you are required to give photo ID with credit card purchases. Most people were fine with this and were so happy people were checking to prevent fraud, since so many stores don't even look at the card or check the signature. For the odd person that freaked out and refused, all it did to us was bring up the ******* alert, and fraud flags, and we'd just give them an even harder time. Person A is genuine and explains they don't have ID or is polite about it, we work around it or check other details . Person B makes a huge fuss refusing to give anything, we say goodbye and call security to the front to escort you out. You are just causing problems for yourself so stop whining.


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## Curtis (Dec 2, 2003)

CharlesH said:


> Cannot speak for other states, but in California, you cannot be physically detained upon leaving the store unless the store has some probable cause (CA Penal Code section 490.5). For example, actually seeing you stuff something under your jacket They can ask all they want, but they will get into big trouble if they physically try to detain you unless they have reason to believe that you stole something. And the refusal itself to submit to a search is specifically disallowed as such a cause. Even Costco cannot physically detain you, but they then have the right to revoke your membership (and thus your right to shop there) if you refuse to submit to the search. IANAL, but this is what I gathered from lawyer Web sites and newspaper consumer hotlines.


If you try to leave the store with a cart I'm pretty sure they are within their rights to stop the cart. After all, it's their cart. If you are carrying the packages they would need probable cause to detain you unless they don't mind getting sued.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

It is funny how selective people are about their privacy. They ask you to take your shoes off, don't let you take a bottle of water and treat you like a potential terrorist at the airport. If you refuse to comply and make a fuzz about it - you go to jail. And everybody is OK with that. I'm not going to even touch Patriot Act. BB looks in your bag to make sure you didn't steal something in a store and you throw the fit.
You apply for the mortgage and volunteer all of the you financial information to the complete stranger just because they work for what you consider reputable bank or mortgage company, but you refuse to give your name to the BB. Why? Are they selling from the back of the truck for cash only or are they multimillion dollar corporation with presence in just about every state?
What harm can be done to you if you did give BB clerk your name and address? Are you ashamed of your name or are a fugitive of some kind? 
In my business if people call for the quote and refuse to give me the name and a phone number I just hang up. If you don't respect me enough to identify yourself, I do not want to do business with you.
BB has all the rights to conduct business the way they chose. You have the right to do business your way as well. But don't complain if merchant chooses not sell to you on your terms. You don't expect merchant to give you 50% off just because you feel that price is not fair, why do you expect merchant to make exception for you on other terms or policies?
You don't like the price or anything else including carpet color in a store, then go shop another store.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

leemoreau said:


> I agree with CrashHD as well. Refusing to provide your information, that's like a HUGE flag for fraud right there. What are you trying to hide??? To me all that is is red flags going up, this is suspicious, customer paying cash for an expensive item, and refusing to give any details about themselves...


Baloney! With the possible exception of using counterfeit bills which clerks can be easily trained to recognize it's difficult to see how a customer using the legal tender of the country which is backed by the government is going to defraud anyone. The store can (and should) note the purchased items' serial numbers etc on the receipts to prevent fraudulent/multiple returns.

Stores which insist on IDs for cash purposes either have unnecessarily rigid policies or other motives for collecting personal info. In either case they won't get my business. Their competitors are happy to accept my money and they'll get it.



leemoreau said:


> As I said before too I worked at Apple, where you are required to give photo ID with credit card purchases. Most people were fine with this and were so happy people were checking to prevent fraud, since so many stores don't even look at the card or check the signature.....


Perfectly reasonable. A credit card isn't the same as cash.

========
Edit: Typo


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

I didn't read the whole thread, but the same thing happened to me at Best Buy when I bought my first TiVo 7 years ago. They absolutely refused to sell it without a phone number, so I left it sitting on the check-out counter and drove a mile down the road to Circuit City and bought it there.

I wrote BB and their response was simply "yes, we require a phone number for TiVo sale". No apologies, that's the way it is.

There's probably an indignant thread about the experience by me in the archives somewhere.


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## leemoreau (Aug 1, 2008)

I couldn't agree with samo more. If you don't want to provide your information then by all means go elsewhere.

And to RoyK I didn't say ask for ID when using cash, they don't ask for ID with all purchases, it's obviously something with the TiVo, or anticounterfit measures. It's why most stores don't even accept $100 bills anymore since they're all fake.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

samo said:


> And everybody is OK with that.


No, not everybody.


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## visionary (May 31, 2006)

I can't believe no one has the simple answer for all this. Radio Shack used to ask such stuff for even minor cash purchases, so just give them false information. I remember doing that in the 90's, I'd say I was William J Clinton, 1600 Penn Ave, DC. 20202. They didn't even figure that out, that is how bright they were. If they had, I'd simply say I was buying it FOR him, since he can't just walk the streets, so I was prepared for anything. Never had to use that because people were that dumb in America.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Some of us believe that lying is not a good thing.


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

leemoreau said:


> It's why most stores don't even accept $100 bills anymore since they're all fake.


Talk about paranoid. All $100 bills are fake? Most stores don't accept them?
I have never had a store refuse my $100 bills. Never. They do check them but thankfully they have passed the test. I give my info when it is appropriate to the transaction, I don't give it out just because someone wants it. Why you have a problem with that I can't even imagine.

I agree with you that if you do not like the terms at one merchant - go somewhere else. I think that is what the original poster did. I just did not like his fake thread title.

Jim H.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

RoyK said:


> Some of us believe that lying is not a good thing.


Yeah, I'm not comfortable with that, and not comfortable even having to turn down these requests (which is what they're counting on, I guess). At least most places you CAN turn down the request...but not at Circuit City.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

RoyK said:


> Some of us believe that lying is not a good thing.


Exactly. I refuse to let a stupid store policy make a liar of me.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

We cannot compare the situation at Best Buy with providing your info to a bank for a mortgage or something like that. I have faith that my small bank I deal with has better controls over all of their privacy practices than a large distributed chain store like Best Buy.

Then again, I just got mail yesterday from a very large financial institution that I used to have 401k money in (since liquidated) that my information may have been on a backup tape lost by the company's off-site storage courier service. 

You can't win.

I guess the best thing we can all do is to take advantage of any free credit watch services offered to you if a situation like mine arises and then to also periodically request your credit report and be proactive about our personal monitoring practices.


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## ThreeSoFar'sBro (Oct 10, 2004)

leemoreau said:


> I agree with CrashHD as well. Refusing to provide your information, that's like a HUGE flag for fraud right there. What are you trying to hide??? To me all that is is red flags going up, this is suspicious, customer paying cash for an expensive item, and refusing to give any details about themselves. As I said before too I worked at Apple, where you are required to give photo ID with credit card purchases. Most people were fine with this and were so happy people were checking to prevent fraud, since so many stores don't even look at the card or check the signature. For the odd person that freaked out and refused, all it did to us was bring up the ******* alert, and fraud flags, and we'd just give them an even harder time. Person A is genuine and explains they don't have ID or is polite about it, we work around it or check other details . Person B makes a huge fuss refusing to give anything, we say goodbye and call security to the front to escort you out. You are just causing problems for yourself so stop whining.


I believe you are very wrong.

Every credit card company that I am aware of (unless this has changed in the last few years) REQUIRES merchants to allow a charge to go through as long as the card is signed. Stores are NOT permitted to request photo ID if the card is signed. Additionally, stores are not permitted to set a minimum purchase amount. Stores found doing this repeatedly may lose their privelege of accepting that charge card.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

macquariumguy said:


> Exactly. I refuse to let a stupid store policy make a liar of me.


Being 100% honest would cause a lot of strife around you. I am not of the school of thought that giving a company false info that has no bearing on the transaction is a falsehood of consequence.

Indeed it may shorten the wait time for those behind me versus taking the time to deal through not complying with the policy but getting the transaction done.

And there is a difference folks in how they get info. You telling them the info at the register allows them to be a lot more flexible with the info for merketing and so forth versus that same info being used solely in the card transaction. The laws are much more specific on use of that transaction information. That is why Circuit city asks, so they can send you marketing stuff.

of course I ma also of the school that circuit City or other tech gadget stores sending me marketing stuff is cool to look through so not as big a deal to me - but those wanting privacy have a very legitimate point about not volunteering info or permission.


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## EVizzle (Feb 13, 2005)

jlb said:


> We cannot compare the situation at Best Buy with providing your info to a bank for a mortgage or something like that. I have faith that my small bank I deal with has better controls over all of their privacy practices than a large distributed chain store like Best Buy.
> 
> Then again, I just got mail yesterday from a very large financial institution that I used to have 401k money in (since liquidated) that my information may have been on a backup tape lost by the company's off-site storage courier service.
> 
> ...


I am 100% with you. I received a letter from a company that manages my Disney stock saying that tapes were lost, my social security number and information were all together. This has never happened at Best Buy. I am far more worried that some company that I did not even choose has access to all my information than Best Buy having access to my phone number and address.


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## Curtis (Dec 2, 2003)

EVizzle said:


> I am 100% with you. I received a letter from a company that manages my Disney stock saying that tapes were lost, my social security number and information were all together. This has never happened at Best Buy. I am far more worried that some company that I did not even choose has access to all my information than Best Buy having access to my phone number and address.


I am not following this logic. I'm pretty sure it's OK to be worried about more than one thing at once. You can be "far more worried" about "X" but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be worried about "Y".


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## EVizzle (Feb 13, 2005)

Curtis said:


> I am not following this logic. I'm pretty sure it's OK to be worried about more than one thing at once. You can be "far more worried" about "X" but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be worried about "Y".


I do not fear anyone with my phone number and address. Google streetview is more invasive in my mind than Best Buy, and I am fine with Google's practices. I should have said "companies sharing and losing my SSN worries me, companies having my phone number and address do not."


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

I'm not sure what the big deal is here. It's not like I couldn't reverse look-up a phone number from a street address and vice versa. People lately are paranoid in all the wrong places. The only number you need to be paranoid about is your SSN.

As far as checking bags and receipts goes, the store cannot check them unless you allow it. They do have the right to detain you and call the police if they have reasonable suspicion. Refusing to allow them to check your bags is not supposed to be reasonable suspicion, but it has successfully been used to arrest people and bring them to trial in the past. But that's pretty rare -- usually you can just say "no thanks" and walk out, and nothing will happen.

Stores also have the right to force you to check your bags before you enter. 

However, sometimes those guys catch errors such as double-billing.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

I don't understand why this is an issue at all. If Best Buy requires customer identification to sell a TiVo and you don't want to provide it, just shop elsewhere. This is hardly complicated or a controversy. Personally, I just provide the information since I participate in the Rewards Program but I sure don't shop at retail stores that operate using policies and procedures I don't like and I don't whine about it.

Chris


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Not everyone has other places to shop, and Circuit City is at least as bad. Frankly your statement is insulting.


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## dylanemcgregor (Jan 31, 2003)

Chris Gerhard said:


> I don't understand why this is an issue at all. If Best Buy requires customer identification to sell a TiVo and you don't want to provide it, just shop elsewhere. This is hardly complicated or a controversy. Personally, I just provide the information since I participate in the Rewards Program but I sure don't shop at retail stores that operate using policies and procedures I don't like and I don't whine about it.


I think it is important to let the store know why they are not getting the sale, instead of just quietly going to the next store. Otherwise for all they know you just might like the other guy's carpet better. So writing to the company _might_ just get them to change the policy and then I can have more choice of where to shop.

Sure posting here isn't going to get the attention of Best Buy management, but it does serve to remind people like me to not patronize Best Buy until the policy is changed.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Puppy76 said:


> Not everyone has other places to shop, and Circuit City is at least as bad. Frankly your statement is insulting.


+ me

We have no other "big box" electronics store like BB within a 60 mile radius.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

ThreeSoFar'sBro said:


> Every credit card company that I am aware of (unless this has changed in the last few years) REQUIRES merchants to allow a charge to go through as long as the card is signed. Stores are NOT permitted to request photo ID if the card is signed.


I don't see why the store would insist on picture ID if the credit card company didn't. As long as they follow the credit card company's authorization process, it's the credit card company's problem if the card is stolen/fake/whatever; the merchant is going to get their payment regardless.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

CharlesH said:


> As long as they follow the credit card company's authorization process, it's the credit card company's problem if the card is stolen/fake/whatever; the merchant is going to get their payment regardless.


Except for AmEx. They are in no way a friend of a merchant, even if the merchant did everything right.


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## danm628 (May 14, 2002)

EVizzle said:


> I am 100% with you. I received a letter from a company that manages my Disney stock saying that tapes were lost, my social security number and information were all together. This has never happened at Best Buy. I am far more worried that some company that I did not even choose has access to all my information than Best Buy having access to my phone number and address.


Like many others I avoid Best Buy. I had a bad experience there 7 years ago and now only go there if I need something and can't wait on shipping. I used to shop at Circuit City and still do occasionally but I try to avoid them due to the firing of all senior employees a few years ago. Cost cutting measure -- fire the people who know what is going on. Amazingly sales went down after this and they were surprised. Seems people wanted answers that the new employees didn't have.

A couple of years ago the parent company of TJ Maxx was hit with the loss of 45 million credit card numbers and personal details. They were using unencrypted WiFi inside the stores. Amazingly stupid. http://www.informationweek.com/news/security/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=198701100

I don't think Best Buy or Circuit City are any more concerned about my security than TJ Maxx was for it's customers. Most companies have very lax security on personal data of customers. They have no financial incentive to actually have security of any sort. If data is stolen they only have to deal with a short term PR issue; once that blows over then they are in the clear. It is their customers who have to deal with the mess. Of course this also applies to the online retailers I deal with. I doubt they have adequate security either.

Governments don't seem to be any better at this than corporations. Over the last year UK government agencies have lost personal information on a third of the population. Often in notebook computers with no encryption. The US government has also had personal data losses of large numbers of US citizens, including one large breach involving military veterans.

I am careful about giving out information. So far I've been lucky. But it is almost guaranteed that I will get hit at some point. Unfortunately there are no easy fixes for this.

- Dan


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## Martyp (Jan 6, 2004)

I just don't get it and I am one of those folks who don't give the zip code just because .

The store card does not bother me because I hardly shop there as they have too many store brands and not enough national brands .

Now if I am going to turn on the tivo anyways why not just give them the info as it sure would save time going some where else .

What would you have done if CC had asked for the same info ?

I will not ask about mail order as they would have your info from using your credit card


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## heidismiles (Aug 12, 2007)

webin said:


> Amazon.com has never once asked to look in my bags.


You can't walk out of Amazon.com with a bag full of unpaid merchandise.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

dswallow said:


> Except for AmEx. They are in no way a friend of a merchant, even if the merchant did everything right.


You're saying that if the card turns up stolen or whatever, that Amex will do a charge-back to the merchant?!  I knew that their merchant fees were high, but I didn't know about that. The fees can be a problem for lots of people who travel on business, since AmEx has deals with companies to handle expense accounts, and the person is supposed to put all such charges on that card... but a lot a merchants won't take AmEx because of the high merchant fees. Saves companies money since the traveler can't buy as much.


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## DeathRider (Dec 30, 2006)

bdowell said:


> If they have no reason to suspect that I'm bringing my bag in to the store to rip them off, they have no right to look at what I'm bringing in the bag.


Sure they do. You could be disgruntled and have a weapon/bomb, ect. Or it could be something defective you are trying to switch on the shelf..



> Before you say I don't need to shop there, you'll be glad to know that I don't shop at places that apply the stupid policy of bothering their customers to check their bags.


That's fine. If enough people don't, they feel they are losing business because of it, maybe they will change their policy.

I work for a hospital that clearly displays signs that they check packages (both entering and exiting). I guess you won't be "Shopping" there or most, if not all, hospitals.



> Normally it's not an issue at all as I don't normally walk into one store with goods purchased at another store, but if I do, the stuff in my bag is mine. It became mine when I purchased it. It's not any business of Best Buy or Circuit City if I purchased something somewhere else, and it's not their business to see what I bought, how much I paid for it, how I paid for it, or any thing else having to do with the transaction. If I walk into Circuit City or Best Buy, or FYE or whatever the store is and I don't have a receipt in the bag but am carrying a bag from another store with items that don't have price tags from the store that I'm in then again there is no real justification for the store to ask to see my bag. If they want to have a loss prevention specialist follow me around, they can assign me a personal shopper and have them lead me to everything I want to buy, or at least have them tail me around the store. I may not like that they do that, but that's a lot less accusatory than demanding to see my property as I come or go through the front doors.


If you don't oblige, they have every right to refuse your business or to not allow you to bring such item with you into the store.

As stated, thse stores are on private property, so unless you can prove to them you own the store (or the property it is on), they have every right to keep you off.



jhimmel said:


> Are we somehow safer if we get mugged with no cash?
> I'd even argue that I would rather lose $200 than have do deal with the hassles of possible compromised identity (possibly for years) from the loss of credit cards.


Pretty soon muggers will be carrying swipe machines/portable ATMs...


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## DeathRider (Dec 30, 2006)

EVizzle said:


> My last comment and then I will be done. Try to buy an iphone with cash.


You can't purchase PrePaid iPhone? Guess I won't be geting one anytime soon then...expecially a 3G


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## Popasmurf (Jun 10, 2002)

ThreeSoFar'sBro said:


> Additionally, stores are not permitted to set a minimum purchase amount. Stores found doing this repeatedly may lose their privelege of accepting that charge card.


Really???? There is a bookstore on our college campus that has a $5.00 minimum purchase and won't allow you to purchase anything less than that on a credit card. They really can't do that??? Maybe I'll have to call them in


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## DeathRider (Dec 30, 2006)

danm628 said:


> Like many others I avoid Best Buy. I had a bad experience there 7 years ago and now only go there if I need something and can't wait on shipping. I used to shop at Circuit City and still do occasionally but I try to avoid them due to the firing of all senior employees a few years ago. Cost cutting measure -- fire the people who know what is going on. Amazingly sales went down after this and they were surprised. Seems people wanted answers that the new employees didn't have.
> 
> A couple of years ago the parent company of TJ Maxx was hit with the loss of 45 million credit card numbers and personal details. They were using unencrypted WiFi inside the stores. Amazingly stupid. http://www.informationweek.com/news/security/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=198701100
> 
> ...


Don't need to break into databases...

CNN Video - Packing material

eBay bought laptop contains one million bank records

The computer, bought by IT manager Andrew Chapman for £77, had the sensitive details on its hard drive


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## DeathRider (Dec 30, 2006)

Popasmurf said:


> Really???? There is a bookstore on our college campus that has a $5.00 minimum purchase and won't allow you to purchase anything less than that on a credit card. They really can't do that??? Maybe I'll have to call them in


Don't forget all those Chinese restaurants that require a $10 minimum for credit cards


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## jcaudle (Aug 16, 2004)

ANY store has the right to check your receipt if they suspect fraud or shoplifting. Buy a Tivo HD at costco, and you can take the box back no questions asked if the Tivo doesn't work


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

incog-neato said:


> Of course they can make you show them your receipt and/or check your bags. Why can Costco and not BB? What law states they can't try to "protect" their property? They also can throw you out of the store if they don't like you (I can personally vouch for that). It's private property. What they can't do is discriminate based on race or color, but they can even put you through a metal detector if they want. Of course, you don't have to shop there. That is your right to protest by withholding your business. If you put up a stink and cause a disturbance they have the right to call the police and have you escorted out of the store ..... which is exactly what happened to me. I wanted to sue, but my uncle, who was a civil rights attorney, told me it was perfectly permissible unless they had me falsely arrested.


How about the Barney Fife Rent-a-cop at BEST BUY NOT LETTING YOU LEAVE THE STORE because the power went out and the shoplifting scanners don't have backup power? That happened to a buddy of mine years ago.

Best Buy is an evil, evil place. Friends don't let friends go here. On the rare occasion when I have to get something cheap and quick in a big box store and I see victims with carts loaded with a PC and $500 worth of crap the helpful pimply-faced expert said they HAD to buy I have to control myself not to scream, RUN! RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!


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## JohnBrowning (Jul 15, 2004)

netringer said:


> How about the Barney Fife Rent-a-cop at BEST BUY NOT LETTING YOU LEAVE THE STORE because the power went out and the shoplifting scanners don't have backup power? That happened to a buddy of mine years ago.


I've never had a issue with Barney. I simply walk right by him while he's interrogating someone else.


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## skywise (Dec 26, 2001)

If you want to give the bag boy something to talk about (and make him think twice about checking personal bags/backpacks) keep a (realistic) severed foot in a baggie in your backpack, complete with blood.
<high whiney voice> "I have to check your bag sir."
"You don't want to do that son."
<slightly higher voice> "It's store policy sir"
"Well, don't say I didn't warn you"
<looking in bag, turning interesting shades of white>
"So, what does your policy say about that?"

Sorry, just think personal/private stuff should stay that way and folk shouldn't stick their noses where they have no business.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

skywise said:


> If you want to give the bag boy something to talk about (and make him think twice about checking personal bags/backpacks) keep a (realistic) severed foot in a baggie in your backpack, complete with blood.
> <high whiney voice> "I have to check your bag sir."
> "You don't want to do that son."
> <slightly higher voice> "It's store policy sir"
> ...


Frankly I like a store that would keep such customers (*real* foot in baggie type I mean*) out of the stores I am shopping in. Feels a little safer.

on a "in touch" note. The last few people I have seen up front in a best buy were in their 30's and bigger. Those stores had managers that realized you wanted someone who could make good, quick decisions and have the youngsters in the back manning the stocking tasks.

*I would love a Candid Camera type show to present the fake body parts like you describe and tape the reactions


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## NickIN (Dec 26, 2002)

scott816 said:


> I really can not stand having my purchased bagged items checked when i leave the store. I find it to be an invasion of my privacy but that is whole different story.


Then keep walking. If you want to press the issue they don't have the authority to stop you. You'll look like a [donkey] but who cares. It's funny how they check your bag but not your pockets.


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## skywise (Dec 26, 2001)

Somehow I think patting folk down would open a can of worms they wouldn't want to go near.
Do you only pat down the guys? 
If you do is it then sexist? 
Do you have both a male and female checker at the door? (and having to pay 2 employees when they're probably annoyed enough having to pay one to just stand around)


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## Brighton Line (Mar 15, 2006)

I thought it is not shoplifting (stealing) until you actually leave the store. They can not have you arrested. They will do the picture thing and tell you that you can not come back to the store (private property and all) but the cops can't arrest you unless you exit the store with the merchandise?

(Not a lawyer, I can never pass a bar)


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Brighton Line said:


> I thought it is not shoplifting (stealing) until you actually leave the store. They can not have you arrested. They will do the picture thing and tell you that you can not come back to the store (private property and all) but the cops can't arrest you unless you exit the store with the merchandise?
> 
> (Not a lawyer, I can never pass a bar)


the person has paid already and is a few feet from the door on their way out, I think they would have a good case in most courts.

Also bear in mind that the employee doing door/receipt check also plays a large part in preventing employee theft. It puts a lot of risk on having a friend come in and get 3 ipods and a pack of printer paper and only getting rung up for the paper.


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## dgraebner (Jun 18, 2004)

Don't know if it got mentioned or not since I got a bit confused between the issue of not wanting your bag checked as you leave and the issue of not wanting to give your name/info when you buy stuff  but we had a case here in Florida that made me not want to give personal information either (and I'm normally not that private). We had a bunch of thefts of electronic items. Mostly, HD TVs and car stereos were being stolen out of people's homes, but sometimes other big ticket items like computers or music systems. Strangely, the electronics were the only items stolen, and in all cases they were brand new. Turns out the thieves were working with someone at a local big box electronic store, and they were using the required customer address information to pass on the names and addresses of people who bought desireable items. Then the thieves would visit that address the next day while the owners were usually out at work, and would break in to steal the new "toy." In the case of car stereos, they hit overnight and targeted driveway or street-parked vehicles. The other part of the scam involved sending the customer to another branch of the store to get a required cable or connector that the first store didn't have. The assumption was that the customer would go there directly from the first store because they were in a hurry to get the required items to hook up their new TV or stereo. While they were in the store, the thieves were lifting said TV or stereo out of the victim's car in the parking lot. The local news was warning people not to go directly from one store to another, and not to give out addresses to the stores. I bought a car stereo, and a few days after I bought it, my car window was smashed and it was taken at about 2am. No other cars in the neighborhood were hit, and I don't drive an expensive looking car. I kind of suspect that I may have been hit by someone in the early stages of that scheme. When I took the car into a different store to have a new stereo installed, the guy said he wished the thief worked for him! He said he paid people who didn't do such a clean job of removing old stereos!


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Geez, I never even thought of that. Yet another reason not to give out personal info that isn't necessary.


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## kingkong316 (Jul 13, 2008)

I work for a publishing company and we just got into the junk mail, uhh... I mean "Direct Mail" business. It scares the crap out of me on just how much information there is on people.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

scott816 said:


> What law gives them the right to search a persons personal property upon leaving a store? The government can't even search ones personal property without permission or a warrant but yet bestbuy can?


You had better believe it, and it had damn well better stay that way. There are a tremendous number of things that are illegal for the government that are perfectly legal for a private citizen. Read the Constitution and the Bill of rights. They restrict the actions of the federal government and in some cases or by extension state governments. Not one word is mentioned about restricting the actions of private citizens. Constitutional law restricts governments, not individuals.

As to Best Buy's rights, they have the right to search any individual on their premises, and they have the absolute right to do anythihng they want with their own merchandise. Unless you have proof the items in the bag belong to you, and not Best Buy, then they are not searching your personal property, they are searching theirs. You most certainly do not have the right to remove their property from the store.

Costco is a club that has to be joined and by joining you agree to let Costco employees cross check your receipt. A contract is signed.[/QUOTE]
Which, like many aspects of many contracts, merely reinforces the rights already maintained by the store.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

This has nothing to do with anything, but I miss Costco. That is such a great store. We just have Sam's Club here (blech) which is Wal Mart's rip off version of Costco.


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## durst (Nov 12, 2002)

and speaking of Walmart... they seem to be doing the complete Opposite!

I was in WalMart the other day (which I normally despise) getting some ink for 
my printer because it was cheap, and now for the first time I've ever noticed anyway, 
the old people at the door are now stopping all of the people at the door to check their 
recpiept ONLY if they are carrying something that didn't fit in a bag. 

If they are carrying anything with them that is outside of their bags and looks 
like an item they sell- they stop you! if everything is in your bags, you get a free walk pass 
and they smile and waive at you as your walking out the door. NOT ONLY THAT, but there was 
a full uniformed police officer standing right next to him looking over his shoulder or helping them out.

No Joke

not sure if it is a new policy or if they were having a shakedown at that particular time, but it was kind 
of a strange creepy feeling for some reason.


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## Brighton Line (Mar 15, 2006)

durst said:


> a full uniformed police officer standing right next to him looking over his shoulder or helping them out.
> 
> No Joke


In NYC the store has to PAY the NYPD for a cop to be "stationed" on their property in uniform. A lot of stores do it from Macy's to Barnes & Noble.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Brighton Line said:


> In NYC the store has to PAY the NYPD for a cop to be "stationed" on their property in uniform. A lot of stores do it from Macy's to Barnes & Noble.


The East Peoria WalMart does that  If you don't know Peoria, you probably think that's goofy...but we've got the highest crime rate in the state quite frequently, and this is a state with Chicago... (And I no longer go there, but you'd see police cars out front quite frequently.)


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## myopicmatt (Sep 22, 2008)

Bierboy said:


> I don't believe I've EVER walked out of BB without being one or all of the following --
> 
> 1) Disappointed
> 2) Insulted
> ...


Here, Here


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## mp11 (Jan 29, 2008)

Puppy76 said:


> The East Peoria WalMart does that  If you don't know Peoria, you probably think that's goofy...but we've got the highest crime rate in the state quite frequently, and this is a state with Chicago... (And I no longer go there, but you'd see police cars out front quite frequently.)


The WM in my area has been doing that for at least 2 years now. (I guess there loving way of showing their appreciation for the business.  But my questions is, be it walmart BB, CC or whoever, all these stores have bar coded stock which will set off alarms if not scanned. So this being the case, why the need to check bags at all?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

mp11 said:


> The WM in my area has been doing that for at least 2 years now. (I guess there loving way of showing their appreciation for the business.  But my questions is, be it walmart BB, CC or whoever, all these stores have bar coded stock which will set off alarms if not scanned. So this being the case, why the need to check bags at all?


well to keep being the broken record - the door person is in large part to keep the checkout people honest as well.
come in get a ream of paper and 2 ipods - pay only for paper but your neighbor the checkout person removes and signalling on the iPods so you can walk out the front door with them


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## mp11 (Jan 29, 2008)

ZeoTiVo said:


> well to keep being the broken record - the door person is in large part to keep the checkout people honest as well.
> come in get a ream of paper and 2 ipods - pay only for paper but your neighbor the checkout person removes and signalling on the iPods so you can walk out the front door with them


Got it. Yet if the Ipods are bagged, you leave the store with 2 free Ipods, as WM will not check items that are bagged. So the door person really can't monitor the checkout person if there is truely an evil deed to be done.


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## DeWitt (Jun 30, 2004)

I tried something new the last time I bought something at Best Buy. I hate dealing with the sales people and the whole messy process. So.... I tried ordering online for store pickup. What a difference. In and out of the store in about 4 minutes, no one tried to sell me a service contract etc.

I may never deal with a best buy sales person again....


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## [NG]Owner (Dec 19, 2006)

lrhorer said:


> As to Best Buy's rights, they have the right to search any individual on their premises, and they have the absolute right to do anythihng they want with their own merchandise. Unless you have proof the items in the bag belong to you, and not Best Buy, then they are not searching your personal property, they are searching theirs. You most certainly do not have the right to remove their property from the store.


Not true. They have the right to ask to search you. You are under no obligation to consent. And absent your consent, they may neither forceably conduct a search of you or items in your possession, nor (absent certain, and specific prerequisites) detain you.

They have the right to ask you to leave the premises, and bar you from returning. That's it. If you do not comply, either immediately or in the future, you are trespassing.

[NG]Owner


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

mp11 said:


> Got it. Yet if the Ipods are bagged, you leave the store with 2 free Ipods, as WM will not check items that are bagged. So the door person really can't monitor the checkout person if there is truely an evil deed to be done.


some walmarts and best buys check the contents against the receipt. Not all the time of course - and maybe when they did that to me they had some issue and were keeping an eye on the checkouts


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

[NG]Owner;6707915 said:


> Not true. They have the right to ask to search you. You are under no obligation to consent. And absent your consent, they may neither forceably conduct a search of you or items in your possession, nor (absent certain, and specific prerequisites) detain you.
> 
> They have the right to ask you to leave the premises, and bar you from returning. That's it. If you do not comply, either immediately or in the future, you are trespassing.
> 
> [NG]Owner


The certain specific prerequisites being probable cause (however that is legally defined) that you have stolen something, like seeing you stuff something into your pocket. They can only detain you while waiting for the police to arrive.

The only thing that is different about membership stores like Costco is that having your bags searched (I don't think that includes searches of your person) is that this part of your membership agreement, so if you don't allow them to do so, they can revoke your membership, and thus your right to shop at the store.


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## Brighton Line (Mar 15, 2006)

DeWitt said:


> I tried ordering online for store pickup. What a difference.....


Hah, not from my online order pick up at Best Buy.

Got to the store went over to the customer service area. Two signs up, one says "Online Orders" and the other "Returns". Of course I went to the online order but was told I had to stand in "that line" of about 10 people. 
While we are waiting the service area goes down to one clerk and sales floor sales people were bringing people with to the counter with merchandise to bought and they jumped ahead of everyone. 
90 minutes later I get to the counter and they call inventory to get my printer.
I ask about their Store Pickup Guarantee (credit order $10) but I am told that the Guarantee starts when I reach the counter they will have the order in 1 minute. So my order appears but it seems that the store price is LESS then the online price but the clerk does not know what to do about that so she has to call a supervisor. We are now waiting another 10 minutes and I asked about gettign the Guarantee but I'm told that they had the product within the time limit and wouldn't I want the price difference?
Supervisor comes and she doesn't know what to do, 5 mintues after that they decided to just process the transaction and LOW AND BEHOLD the register automagicly did the price difference. 
I am here almost TWO hours to get my product.
Now as I exit the store there is another LINE at the door as they check recipets. Boy did I rip into that door checker.
Best Buy, NEVER AGAIN.
At least at Circut City you get your order in 24 minutes or you get a $24 gift card PERIOD.


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

Brighton Line said:


> Hah, not from my online order pick up at Best Buy.


I had a similar but funnier experience. I arrived and was the first in line for customer pick-up. There were several people in the que for regular customer service. Some rough looking b***** in the long que started in on about I was breaking in line and should be in the other que. I pointed at the signs to her and said the the que she was in was not pick-up. A employee at a customer service window confirmed that, so she marches over and gets in front of me. I just rolled my eyes and said "yes, please help yourself to break-in line". Funny. She started ranting to me about how I should go to church and I was an immoral person. I was just laughing out loud at her. Anyway she got to the window and had not printed the on-line receipt and handn't even written down the order number so they had to go in the back and search for what she'd ordered. I continued to laugh at her and she continued to turn around and call me names and call me a sinner. Probably to defuse the situation, a guy at the customer service window motioned for me to hand him my papers. So, I did. She got her purchase about a minute before I did and made some other crude remark to me. Whatever. Anyway, as I was leaving and approaching the door checker, he had her stopped and was going through a bunch of stuff she had in some big plastic bag. I don't know what that bag was, if was BB purchases or something she brought in from another store, but he was looking at everything, item by item. I thought great! Now I have to wait for this b**** again. But, the door checker looked up at me and just motioned me by. LOL

As I walked by, I just looked at her and said "Bye, bye".


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## lasergecko (Mar 13, 2003)

TWinbrook46636 said:


> People, you need to get a grip. These stores lose a tremendous amount of money due to shoplifters. You can't seriously get offended when they _*ask *_to look in your bag when people routinely try to sneak extra merchandise out that way.


You don't have to get offended. They _ask_ and you can _refuse_.

Both are perfectly _legal_. I just say "No thanks!" and walk right out the door at Fry's, Wal-Mart, or where ever I haven't previously agreed to it by signing my name to a contract.

http://www.crimedoctor.com/loss_prevention_3.htm

My cousin used to be the head of the loss prevention department at a large mall retail store (Famous Barr or Dillard's, can't remember which one). This page (http://www.crimedoctor.com/shopliftingPC.htm) echos what she said they had to do almost verbatim before they would detain someone.

I don't go to Best Buy because I'm tired of A) knowing far more about home theatre than anyone who works there and B) getting the product features read to me off of the card.

"No, component video switching _is not_ the same thing as upconversion."* to the section manager of the Best Buy at Lake Mead and Rainbow in Las Vegas*


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

janry said:


> As I walked by, I just looked at her and said "Bye, bye".


from the 20/20 hindsight department -
what would she have gone through if you had said

'Jesus loves you... despite your flaws'


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## Natron (Dec 14, 2002)

lasergecko said:


> You don't have to get offended. They _ask_ and you can _refuse_.
> http://www.crimedoctor.com/loss_prevention_3.htm
> http://www.crimedoctor.com/shopliftingPC.htm


Most excellent links. It makes wonder how much force a checker could try to apply if a customer physically resists detention. I can imagine a situation where an aggressive and hot headed checker and customer come to blows. Could the customer legally use enough force to prevent detention?


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## Sandi Shores (Sep 11, 2008)

leemoreau said:


> Can I ask how many people here posting are from Canada? You Americans and your privacy issues its just out of this world. Blows me away how paranoid you all are. You make it sound like its such a hassle. I've had my debit card copied before and $2000 taken from my bank account. I called my bank, yes I had to go into the branch for a new card, but 2 days later the money was back in my account. I think the point you all fail to realize is that when you choose to shop in a store, you agree to their terms and conditions. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. You're buying a product or service, you accept the terms. Do you know how many billions are lost each year in shoplifting? It's the reason prices have to be higher to make up for the losses. I used to work at Apple, and people would all the time come in, grab $500 Microsoft Office off the shelf, come to the cash and say hi I bought this a week ago its sealed I lost my receipt but I want to return it. So we would have to give them a $500 gift certificate/store credit since no receipt. By taking your information and recording serial numbers, it prevents someone from picking up a TiVo off the shelf, saying hi I bought this here I want to return it, I have no receipt but a store credit is fine.


Hi,

I have never posted here until now but your comments raised my hackles.

I expect privacy in ALL things, I do not ever want to be forced to give my information to anyone unless I feel safe in doing so and am convinced it is a good and necessary reason. I also do not think anyone or any company should take liberties with our information.

In my life I have had men use the information on checks I wrote for groceries (and other things) to find out where I lived and what my phone number was. Nothing like having a stranger who thought you were good looking take the liberty of using your purchasing information to call you or show up at your home.

Trust me when I say that you cannot possible imagine the terror of having that happen to you.

It isn't limited to men either, I have had a women do the exact same thing to me, and I am not alone in being the victim of information misuse and abuse that went beyond financial.

If I want or need to give my information for anything I had better be able do to it securely and anonymously, I don't care who it is asking or for what reasons, they can take a flying leap before I give them any personal information face to face. I can submit it to a database easily, but humans are human and I do not have to trust them just because they are standing at a cash register.

As it happens I live in Canada (Quebec) now and I am amazed at the lack of even basic privacy, for instance any complete stranger can open your mailbox and look inside, even put things in there. In the U.S.A. that is a federal crime.

There is no expectation of privacy in Canada so you do not grow up thinking you have any right to privacy, and that's totally different than being an American where we have a right to privacy from birth.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

[NG]Owner;6707915 said:


> Not true. They have the right to ask to search you. You are under no obligation to consent. And absent your consent, they may neither forceably conduct a search of you or items in your possession, nor (absent certain, and specific prerequisites) detain you.


Yes, but there is a catch. They have the absolute right to do as they please and whatever they please with anything they own. If you are walking out the door with merchandise for which you have not paid, then they are not searching through your merchandise, are they? The problem, of course, is if they search you without your consent and you turn out not to have any of their merchandise illegally stashed in your bags, then you have cause for a lawsuit. Of course they cannot assault you in any case.



[NG]Owner;6707915 said:


> They have the right to ask you to leave the premises, and bar you from returning. That's it. If you do not comply, either immediately or in the future, you are trespassing.


Yes, and if you actually leave the premises with items for which you did not pay, then you are shoplifting. Additionally, if an officer of the law is present, and he observes actions indicative of probable cause, he can search you, and while restraining you would be battery if the store did it, with probable cause the officer can restrain you. He cannot act, however, until you actually leave the premises, because prior to that you have committed no crime. By contrast, the store can only act within their limited ability to do so while you are in the store. They definitely do have the right, however, to prevent you from walking out the door with merchandise unless you have proof it is yours and not theirs.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Sandi Shores said:


> There is no expectation of privacy in Canada so you do not grow up thinking you have any right to privacy, and that's totally different than being an American where we have a right to privacy from birth.


I don't know who told you this, but it is nonsense. Exactly where is this right established? There are certain federal regulations regarding the need for a court order in order to be able to obtain evidence via certain means of communication, and there are very strict laws regarding the mishandling of first class postal messages, but there is no "right to privacy" established in the U.S. Constitution. There is absolutely nothing whatsoever establishing a general ban on collection of private information by private citizens or institutions.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

If there were any right like that then the federal government has already violated that by requiring all new borns to get a social security number.



lrhorer said:


> I don't know who told you this, but it is nonsense. Exactly where is this right established? There are certain federal regulations regarding the need for a court order in order to be able to obtain evidence via certain means of communication, and there are very strict laws regarding the mishandling of first class postal messages, but there is no "right to privacy" established in the U.S. Constitution. There is absolutely nothing whatsoever establishing a general ban on collection of private information by private citizens or institutions.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

lrhorer said:


> As to Best Buy's rights, they have the right to search any individual on their premises, and they have the absolute right to do anythihng they want with their own merchandise. Unless you have proof the items in the bag belong to you, and not Best Buy, then they are not searching your personal property, they are searching theirs. You most certainly do not have the right to remove their property from the store.


There are so many things wrong with that paragraph.


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## Northerner26 (Aug 15, 2008)

i have been going to best buy in another city for years (only one around) and at the register they always used to ask my zip code and i always figured it was to keep track of where people lived and the amount of sales from that area? but untill a few years ago they started asking more personal info like phone and stuff and i refuse to give that out. (i pay good money each month to keep my name & number out of the book so i dont get 'the calls' all hours of the day anymore) (best money i ever spent also)
and as for the person checking my bag at the door, its a little inconvenient but i dont blame them for doing it one bit! i watched a news special on msnbc that did a thing on shoplifting and it blew my mind. the money lost yearly was in the billions and they said take all other crime and combine them all and it didnt touch the amount lost from shoplifting, it was a very informative program.
so if a store wants to look in my bag, i have no problem with it.


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