# DirecTV HD Rumor



## lee espinoza (Aug 21, 2002)

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=54604


----------



## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

Just got a 3 LNB dish installed yesterday. LOL.. 

And when I tried for them to give me the 5 LNB they refused.. Directv that is...


----------



## sp1dey (Jul 21, 2005)

Probably just cutting over to the new dishes. Really is no point to continue installing the 3lnb dish after a certain point. The more the new dish is out their (especially for new installs) the easier it will be to convert down the road.


----------



## ronpp (Aug 21, 2004)

Read in an FAQ or thread somewhere here that with these new dishes, a separate line MUST be run for an OTA antenna?


----------



## greywolf (Apr 9, 2004)

A separate line CAN be run for an OTA antenna. Diplexing is no longer allowed.


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Natl geo would be cool. I get pbsHD in with some regularity (weak OTA signal) and have seen very detailed pictures of stuff on there. Of course geo will probably just be mpeg4 of course but oh well at least some people will benefit and it's a step towards other channels coming on board.


----------



## HogarthNH (Dec 28, 2001)

greywolf said:


> A separate line CAN be run for an OTA antenna. Diplexing is no longer allowed.


It's not that it's disallowed, but rather would conflict with the frequencies of the new sats.

H


----------



## jdk (Mar 15, 2001)

It makes sense that DirecTV would start to only install AT9's. I see no earth shattering news in this specific rumor (in fact, I've already seen it posted elsewhere last week).

I see no "hard rumor" in the thread regarding the rollout of new nationals - just speculation by Scott linking the AT9 switchover to a possible rollout of new MPEG4 Nationals.

I would be pleasantly surprised if this annoucement also relates to the rollout of National HD channels. Unfortunately, for the past year or so, I haven't been pleasantly surprised by DirecTV.


----------



## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

I see no reason that this indicates any new national channels are coming. This is just a cost saving measure. This begins the phase out of Phase III dishes. This is predicatable as DirecTV wants to make the support window for Phase III as small as possible. Why support more types of equipment than you have to? Also, why install a dish that might have to be replaced in a couple of months to a couple of years?

I commented on this before:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3512551&&#post3512551


----------



## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

I am moving in September and i want a new 5LNB dish to be installed. Hopefully the HR20-250 will be available and not suck too much by then. I am moving further away from the broadcast towers that I currently pick up with my silver sensor and I would prefer not to put up a big antenna on the roof.


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Thing I dont get though, is why, when dtv absolutely knew that they would be rolling out mpeg4 in X number of cities, why they would install anything other than the 5lnb in new installs there? Sure, not everyone would immediately be getting a new receiver, but still seemed like a logical move. 

oh well, they aren't logical. But to hear people who would be turned on in just a few months get just the triple lnb dish sounded so wasteful to me. 

as far as national HD, i'm personally hoping they never get any new channels so i dont feel guilty about keeping my old hdtivo around


----------



## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

They want to minimize the cost down the road to switch, so start installing the new dishes now. 

Big whoop.

No new HD channels on the horizon, trust me...


----------



## Seminole (Oct 27, 2003)

They can keep their new dish as I am in no hurry to switch for a few reasons

1.) HD Tivo
2.) FIOS
3.) 2 year commitment 

D* is on thin ice with me right now


----------



## charlieg (May 31, 2002)

Seminole said:


> D* is on thin ice with me right now


Same here. I wrote to complain about the declining picture quality (especially things like the SciFi channel) and they insisted on sending someone out to check my equipment. There's nothing wrong with my equipment but I figured since it was on their dime what the heck. However, I'm not willing to commit to anything if they are simply going to compress the crap out of everything they send down to us. I would love to have FiOS as an option but I'm afraid it will be a long time before it's available in my area. While I do not really want to go back to Cablevision, it may be my only choice for the short term if things continue in their present state. I really need to visit some of my neighbors and investigate the quality of their Cablevision signals. My HDTiVo may be the only thing keeping me from switching.


----------



## pudge44 (Dec 5, 2002)

I wonder how many customers are going to be lost simply because of the inability to pull in a signal from 5 satellites. I had a terrific signal with my 18" round dish (mid 90s on all transponders). Simply switching to the Phase III last week has dropped my signal to the mid 70s on 101 and 110, and the mid 60s on the 119. I may not get the HD channels at all once the leaves come back on my neighbors' trees (100' high trees are common in my neighborhood). I've read that since the 119 bird is low on the horizon in the Northeast it's already a problem for many people. How much trickier are things going to get with two more satellites to pull in?


----------



## charlieg (May 31, 2002)

If your signal diminished on the 101 bird simply by changing the dish, then there's most likely a problem with the alignment. A properly aligned phase 3 dish should not cause the sort of degradation you have experienced. 

As for the new the new 5 LNB dish, I would think that if you could get signals from the previous three slots (and I agree with you that this is not an easy thing for everyone) you should be able to get a signal from the new birds as well in most cases since the new slots are very close to the existing ones.


----------



## mpar1 (Feb 14, 2005)

Seminole said:


> They can keep their new dish as I am in no hurry to switch for a few reasons
> 
> 1.) HD Tivo
> 2.) FIOS
> ...


My thoughts exactly.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

pudge44 said:


> I wonder how many customers are going to be lost simply because of the inability to pull in a signal from 5 satellites. I had a terrific signal with my 18" round dish (mid 90s on all transponders). Simply switching to the Phase III last week has dropped my signal to the mid 70s on 101 and 110, and the mid 60s on the 119. I may not get the HD channels at all once the leaves come back on my neighbors' trees (100' high trees are common in my neighborhood). I've read that since the 119 bird is low on the horizon in the Northeast it's already a problem for many people. How much trickier are things going to get with two more satellites to pull in?


Your new dish is just not aligned properly.

The new satellites are centered around DirecTV's main position of 101 degrees (99 and 103 degree positions for SpaceWay 1 & 2), as such unless someone's shooting through a hole in the trees now to get 101, they'll likely get 99 and 103 OK. It's not as bad as if they were off in a completely different direction like 119.

I would expect that when the new satellite launches in 2007 are operational that we'll see all the HD available from the 99/101/103 satellites since it would make more sense not to spread content across the sky that any given subscriber is likely to want. Keep the 110 and 119 positions for more obscure program packages like the international channels and for SD local into local services.


----------



## pudge44 (Dec 5, 2002)

dswallow said:


> Your new dish is just not aligned properly.


At what point does signal strength equate to a noticable drop in PQ? Should I call the installers back?


----------



## charlieg (May 31, 2002)

pudge44 said:


> At what point does signal strength equate to a noticable drop in PQ? Should I call the installers back?


 When you get complete drop-outs. A good signal does not mean a better picture it means less/no drop-outs and a decreased sensitivity to things like rain-fade.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

pudge44 said:


> At what point does signal strength equate to a noticable drop in PQ? Should I call the installers back?


Yeah, they should come back and do it right. In NJ you should be seeing signal levels in the low to mid-90's on most transponders on any DirecTV receiver connected to a Phase III 3-LNB dish. Even high 80's would be OK; but to be down so low into the 70's and 60's is really marginal.


----------



## pudge44 (Dec 5, 2002)

I may wait a couple of months to see if the 119 signal strength suffers when the tree leaves come back. The installer said he thought it was a "maybe" that I could see the 119 before mounting the dish, once it was up and he got a signal he said he thought I might lose it when the leaves come back but he thought it could be fixed with a tripod mount on the roof. 

My dish is currently roof mounted on the peak, right next to the chimney, so it's not like they can go any higher without some different mounting hardware.


----------



## greywolf (Apr 9, 2004)

The receiver used matters too. The H20 reads about 20 points lower than most other receivers for the same signal strength.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

greywolf said:


> The receiver used matters too. The H20 reads about 20 points lower than most other receivers for the same signal strength.


That's good to know.


----------



## lromoda (Aug 11, 2005)

greywolf said:


> A separate line CAN be run for an OTA antenna. Diplexing is no longer allowed.


The switch they provide with the new dish doesn't have an OTA input. When I pointed this out to the installer, he left my Terk 5-8 switch inline. I have 2 H20's and 2 HR10-250's. One of each has a diplexer at the box end. Everything seems to work, so what's the deal with the diplex interference? Just a myth to get around the fact their new switch doesn't have a diplexer built in? Anyone really know?


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

lromoda said:


> The switch they provide with the new dish doesn't have an OTA input. When I pointed this out to the installer, he left my Terk 5-8 switch inline. I have 2 H20's and 2 HR10-250's. One of each has a diplexer at the box end. Everything seems to work, so what's the deal with the diplex interference? Just a myth to get around the fact their new switch doesn't have a diplexer built in? Anyone really know?


The Ka-band signals from the 99 and 103 degree position are placed above and below the Ku-band signals from the 101/110/119 satellites. They overlap with the OTA frequencies. It's not possible to diplex a signal on the satellite feeds with the 5-LNB dish because of this. If you do, you'll interfere the lower half of the Ka-band signals.


----------



## Proc (Jan 21, 2006)

pudge44 said:


> I may wait a couple of months to see if the 119 signal strength suffers when the tree leaves come back. The installer said he thought it was a "maybe" that I could see the 119 before mounting the dish, once it was up and he got a signal he said he thought I might lose it when the leaves come back but he thought it could be fixed with a tripod mount on the roof.
> 
> My dish is currently roof mounted on the peak, right next to the chimney, so it's not like they can go any higher without some different mounting hardware.


I had issues with the 119 last summer when it was on my roof. A neighbor's tree got in the way. On a good day, I'd get readings in the 60s, but more often than not, it was lower than that and would pixelate out completely and I'd lose all programming from the 119 sat. 101 and 110 were strong, but not 119. Due to this line of sight issue, I eventually moved the Phase III dish off the roof of the house out back to my garage roof and air-ran the coax back to the house.

I plan on pole mounting the AT9 this spring.


----------



## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

greywolf said:


> The receiver used matters too. The H20 reads about 20 points lower than most other receivers for the same signal strength.


Totally off topic, but I know you are a woodworker. What did you do for component ventilation in the enterainment center you built? I am planning on building an entertainment center in my shop as well.

Also, what are you doing for dust collection in your shop? I am right now looking at options.

I'd love to meet up with a fellow Chicago woodworker who also has an interest in electonics.


----------



## greywolf (Apr 9, 2004)

There is a vent in the side bottom of the equipment cabinet. There is also one at the top. The top vent has an exhaust fan that is plugged into the A/V receiver. It goes on when the receiver goes on. My shop is in my garage so many of the tools are on roller stands. I have a Jet portable dust collector under my table saw that handles the saw and the attached router table. It also has leads for the jointer and planer. A shop vac handles the other tools. I'll turn on personal messaging for a while here to exchange information.


----------



## jdiehl (Mar 23, 2002)

lromoda said:


> Everything seems to work, so what's the deal with the diplex interference?


Do you have any mpeg4 channels available for your area to see if they work with your setup using diplexers for OTA? If not, perhaps that's why it works okay for you since you're not getting any mpeg4 channels coming in anyway?



dswallow said:


> They overlap with the OTA frequencies. It's not possible to diplex a signal on the satellite feeds with the 5-LNB dish because of this. If you do, you'll interfere the lower half of the Ka-band signals.


I'm moving to a new home at the end of this month and D* is installing the 5-LNB dish for me (along with a swapping out one of my older mpeg2 HD receivers for a H20). I've read many posts from ppl like Iromoda here that are diplexing in OTA signals with the AT9 dish (for feeds going to their mpeg2 receivers that have no use for those mpeg4 signals).

I have a HD Tivo, a SD Tivo, and two other HD receivers (one of which will be replaced by the H20's as I mentioned). I still need OTA fed to the HD Tivo and another mpeg2 receiver and was planning on using my 5x8 Eagle Aspen to diplex in the OTA with diplexers at both receivers (running new lines to those rooms for OTA is obviously the best option, but I'd rather not).

Are you saying that this is not going to work, because Iromoda and other's are saying that it will? All of this assumes no mpeg4 signals are even available to watch yet (which, for many of us where they are installing the mpeg4 stuff prior to LIL's even being available, that is the case). Of course, once those mpeg4's are available in my area (estimates are "May 06" for St. Louis, according to the CSR that did my mover's program install scheduling), I won't need the OTA signal anyway and I can remove the antenna and diplexers.

Confused...


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

jdiehl said:


> (estimates are "May 06" for St. Louis, according to the CSR that did my mover's program install scheduling), I won't need the OTA signal anyway and I can remove the antenna and diplexers.
> 
> Confused...


Sorry I can't help with the rest of your post. But I can tell you that if you like pbs, WB, UPN (at least until they merge in fall), you will still need OTA to get those in HD. DTV only gets in the big 4 on the satellite in HD.


----------



## tfederov (Jul 6, 2003)

newsposter said:


> Sorry I can't help with the rest of your post. But I can tell you that if you like pbs, WB, UPN (at least until they merge in fall), you will still need OTA to get those in HD. DTV only gets in the big 4 on the satellite in HD.


Except Dallas. No ABC in HD by D* here.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

jdiehl said:


> Do you have any mpeg4 channels available for your area to see if they work with your setup using diplexers for OTA? If not, perhaps that's why it works okay for you since you're not getting any mpeg4 channels coming in anyway?
> 
> I'm moving to a new home at the end of this month and D* is installing the 5-LNB dish for me (along with a swapping out one of my older mpeg2 HD receivers for a H20). I've read many posts from ppl like Iromoda here that are diplexing in OTA signals with the AT9 dish (for feeds going to their mpeg2 receivers that have no use for those mpeg4 signals).
> 
> ...


You can diplex the OTA signal onto the feeds going to receivers that don't support Ka-band. The Ka-band signals on the lower end will end up replaced by the OTA signals (presuming the diplexer does a decent job of blocking stray signals from the satellite side of the connection -- which it should).

If you diplex it on lines going to MPEG-4/Ka-band capable receivers, you'll block those receivers from tuning into half the Ka-band signals.

Initially DirecTV is only going to have the 4 major networks in MPEG4/HD so you might still want that antenna for awhile if there's other digital stations in your market.


----------



## greywolf (Apr 9, 2004)

Diplexing ought to work until the 99 bird goes active. It will carry the channels that will conflict with UHF. There are only four channels of MPEG4 locals for a while at least. I'm keeping my antenna for the other 21.


----------



## jdiehl (Mar 23, 2002)

dswallow said:


> You can diplex the OTA signal onto the feeds going to receivers that don't support Ka-band. The Ka-band signals on the lower end will end up replaced by the OTA signals (presuming the diplexer does a decent job of blocking stray signals from the satellite side of the connection -- which it should).
> 
> If you diplex it on lines going to MPEG-4/Ka-band capable receivers, you'll block those receivers from tuning into half the Ka-band signals.
> 
> Initially DirecTV is only going to have the 4 major networks in MPEG4/HD so you might still want that antenna for awhile if there's other digital stations in your market.


Thanks, that's what I wanted to here. :up: Since my HD Tivo and Zenith HD520 are both mpeg2, I'll just diplex the pair of cables going to them. For th new mpeg4 receiver, I could probably get away with diplexing the OTA to that one as well, as St. Louis won't have HD-LIL's for at least a 3-6 months anyway.

The diplexers that I use now are Perfect Vision PVDP3's (40-2150mhz). I'm assuming that they would be capable of blowing the Ka-band from the dish?

As for PBS, WB/UPN, etc... Once my HD-LIL's are available this summer on the mpeg4 receiver, I'll continue to feed my mpeg2 receivers with my main yagi antenna in the attic (still diplexed in) and use my good old Radio Shack double bowtie for the H20 receiver to supplement the major 4 networks coming in off of satellite.


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

tfederov said:


> Except Dallas. No ABC in HD by D* here.


do they have it and aren't giving it or they dont have it?


----------



## teasip (Aug 24, 2002)

No agreement with Belo Corp. the parent corp. but with all the mountains that we have here in N. Texas it shouldn't be much of an issue anyway if one has access to an antenna.


----------



## tfederov (Jul 6, 2003)

Yeah, I have an antenna so it's not a big deal. I'm holding out on upgrading until there are HD channels I can't get with my triple LNB setup and the new HD DVR comes out.


----------

