# Journeyman cancelled



## jimest (Jan 27, 2002)

According to the newspaper today journeyman is cancelled.

There are two more episodes and they will be shown in their regular time slot and there will be no more.

Jim


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## minidreamin (Nov 23, 2005)

*Burn in Hell Fox!!!*...oh, wait.

That's a shame. I was enjoying that show.


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## brnscofrnld (Mar 30, 2005)

Not good news


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Glad my very first recording majorly f'ed up and we didn't decide to get into it.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

I knew it was doomed once I realized it was a quality show.

But I guess this frees up a time slot for _America's Funniest Car Chases Gone Wild_ or something now.


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## needo (Jul 9, 2003)

I knew it was doomed the minute it followed Heroes and required someone having greater then a 8th grade education to understand it.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

Well at least we have Knight Rider coming. 

Frank


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I liked it but thought Journeyman, like Daybreak, was a show that would have been better as a miniseries. Shouldn't have been cancelled, though.


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

I knew it would be canceled when they put it on at 10:00 pm and wouldn't count DVR viewers in the ratings.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

ACK!!! Sad sad news. 

I guess if Fox had made it as an animated series it would have lasted.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

I hate the Neilsen ratings its so outdated!


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

Kablemodem said:


> I knew it would be canceled when they put it on at 10:00 pm and wouldn't count DVR viewers in the ratings.


NBC counts DVR viewers for other shows but not Journeyman? If that's true management never intended to give the show a chance. It was intentionally torpedoed. The 10pm slot is most likely to be timeshifted so ignoring those viewers is a deliberate snub.


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## Warren (Oct 18, 2001)

brnscofrnld said:


> Not good news


link no work


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

I have to question NBC's practices here. I mean, Journeyman was one of their best new shows... and they cancel it?

Jerks.


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

Warren said:


> link no work


Remove the extra "http://" at the beginning.


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## Warren (Oct 18, 2001)

tivogurl said:


> Remove the extra "http://" at the beginning.


I did then it said page not found


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

Warren said:


> I did then it said page not found


Worked for me.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Warren said:


> I did then it said page not found


Try this: http://tvdecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/13/nbc-scraps-journeyman/


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

busyba said:


> Try this: http://tvdecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/13/nbc-scraps-journeyman/


That one worked.

This really sucks. Journeyman was the best new drama this season. (If you don't count Chuck as a drama, and I don't)

So, let's all send NBC a bunch of fake $20 bills with BIH written across the face of it. Maybe they'll get the message.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

I've never seen it, but I wondered if it was any good. Since it got axed, I guess it was.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

That article has nothing new in it that has not been posted in other threads over the past week. There is no reference to "cancellation" therefore I hold out hope......specifically in that article -- "NBC has not confirmed the demise of the science fiction drama,..."

That being said, however, knowing NBC, I fully expect not to see it next season.


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## Havana Brown (Feb 3, 2005)

but, but, but, I voted!!!!


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## brnscofrnld (Mar 30, 2005)

Warren said:


> link no work


Fixed the link above and below.

Any Better?


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

Bierboy said:


> That article has nothing new in it that has not been posted in other threads over the past week. There is no reference to "cancellation" therefore I hold out hope......specifically in that article -- "NBC has not confirmed the demise of the science fiction drama,..."


Yes, I too am holding onto a shred of hope. Is there any news that it is officially cancelled?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DLiquid said:


> Yes, I too am holding onto a shred of hope. Is there any news that it is officially cancelled?


Well, first (and I know I keep harping on this in various threads, but it's a pet peeve of mine) cancellation is not an issue--the show has fulfilled its order. Everything that was ordered and produced has been (or will be soon) aired.

NBC has not renewed the show (which is not the same as cancellation), and allowed the contracts to expire. That means that even if the show comes back, it will be harder, because as of today all the actors are out looking for work, and presumably some if not most if not all of them will find it (these are pretty quality people). On the other hand, Kevin Church recently said that the chances for NBC ordering a second season after the strike are better than usual, since we're into pilot season (when new shows are pitched) without writers. He says it's possible that NBC will be so desperate for Fall content, they might bring back Journeyman.

How likely would that be? Haven't a clue. But because of the actor situation, I'd say every day that passes makes it less likely. I seriously doubt Reed Diamond and Kevin McKidd are going to be out of work much longer than they want to be...


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

Thanks for that explanation Rob.


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## TIVOSciolist (Oct 13, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:


> So, let's all send NBC a bunch of fake $20 bills with BIH written across the face of it. Maybe they'll get the message.


For added effect, the fake bills should all be dated 1975 and look like they came from a hijacking ransom.


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

This was my favorite show of the new season (followed by Life).

This news is literally making me sick to my stomach.

They've blown it again.

"Brilliant but canceled."

Somebody hire Moon Bloodgood...and quick!


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## jrinck (Nov 24, 2004)

I got into it at first, but lost interest. When he discovered his ex was still "alive", and seemingly all-knowing about the time travel thing, it went down a path I wasn't interested in. I watched Quantum Leap--been there, done that, although the ex is infinitely more attractive than Dean Stockwell!


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

This is sad, but not unexpected. I'll enjoy the last two and hope they give us a good resolution.

I actually wish that more TV series were produced with the intent of only being 13 episodes. I think it would be much easier for writers to provide innovative stories if they didn't have to think about how the show could continue down the road if they were picked up.


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## jrinck (Nov 24, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> I actually wish that more TV series were produced with the intent of only being 13 episodes. I think it would be much easier for writers to provide innovative stories if they didn't have to think about how the show could continue down the road if they were picked up.


Like how Dexter was based on a book, and if they never picked up season 2, there would still have been full resolution.


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## TIVOSciolist (Oct 13, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I actually wish that more TV series were produced with the intent of only being 13 episodes. I think it would be much easier for writers to provide innovative stories if they didn't have to think about how the show could continue down the road if they were picked up.


That's how the British do it.

I've currently gotten into the BBC2 show, "Coupling." Even though it ran from 2000 to 2004, there are only 28 episodes. The current "Doctor Who" has had only had 13 episodes for each of the past three seasons.

I think the Americans are more focused on trying to get rich from churning out at least a hundred episodes for syndication.


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## Warren (Oct 18, 2001)

yeha


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

betts4 said:


> I guess if Fox had made it as an animated series it would have lasted.


Only if it was from the creators of an already-existing Fox animation series that is so popular that they don't dare cancel it out of fear that the producers will take the popular show to another network - and even then, Fox would bury it in some unforsaken time slot and pre-empt it during Sweeps months for Simpsons and Family Guy reruns.

-- Don


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

I didn't watch the show, but unfortunately sci-fi based shows rarely do well in the general audience. Everyone saw Heroes be succesful in spite of its nature, and decided this season needed to be chocked full of sci-f'ish and super natural based shows.

These have traditionally been hard shows to sell. Sure you have Heroes and Lost, but those are the rare exceptions. I never watched Journeyman, but it is disappointing it is canceled.

I assume they are at least going to air all the episodes they have finished?


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

TIVOSciolist said:


> That's how the British do it.
> 
> I've currently gotten into the BBC2 show, "Coupling." Even though it ran from 2000 to 2004, there are only 28 episodes.


Now that's a fun show! :up:


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

They needed room for this:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=368012

Idiots.


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

jimest said:


> According to the newspaper today journeyman is cancelled.
> 
> There are two more episodes and they will be shown in their regular time slot and there will be no more.
> 
> Jim


What newspaper did you see this in? I have yet to find any definitive word that Journeyman is cancelled. I've seen a couple of blogs that say they "heard" or that "sources say" it's cancelled but I've not seen anything definitive.

Yeah I know the "writing is on the wall" but I'll hold out hope until I see that NBC has officially cancelled the show.


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## jimest (Jan 27, 2002)

appleye1 said:


> What newspaper did you see this in? I have yet to find any definitive word that Journeyman is cancelled. I've seen a couple of blogs that say they "heard" or that "sources say" it's cancelled but I've not seen anything definitive.
> 
> Yeah I know the "writing is on the wall" but I'll hold out hope until I see that NBC has officially cancelled the show.


Below from the:
Columbus Dispatch 12/13/2007

JOURNEYMAN

Fate: NBC let its option lapse this week on the little-watched time-traveling drama, in effect guaranteeing its cancellation. The writers finished the original order of 13 episodes of which 11 have been shown; the last two are scheduled in the regular slot.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Minor correction to the OP: the final two episodes are slated to air next week -- Monday and Wednesday.

From what I read this show is produced by Fox, which is why it was never pushed as much as Bionic Woman (NBC/Universal). Would there be any chance that it could be picked up by Fox?

Heroes is *not* a sci-fi show. Lost is borderline. Heroes is a comic book. Lost is bordering on supernatural. Are there any true sci fi shows left? BSG is more like a war series set in space. 

10 PM is an awful slot, I must admit. Monday is a pretty horrible night as well -- Heroes, DWTS, CSI, Football. Yes, I know that Heroes was on the same network, but there's just so much time people with kids have to watch TV in one day (and this show was clearly *not* aimed at 20-somethings, like Heroes is). I never-ever watched it live, and a few times didn't get to watch it until Wednesday or Thursday. Clearly, the Neilsen's rating system is outdated (not that it would have made much of a difference).

What *could* make a difference is people buying products advertised on the show, then sending in the UPC from the product to the company, clearly stating that they bought it because it was advertised on Heroes.


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

jrinck said:


> I got into it at first, but lost interest. When he discovered his ex was still "alive", and seemingly all-knowing about the time travel thing, it went down a path I wasn't interested in. I watched Quantum Leap--been there, done that, although the ex is infinitely more attractive than Dean Stockwell!


You should have kept watching. Here's the thing: she isn't all knowing. She doesn't know how or why they jump, she doesn't know who is controlling the jumps, nor does she have Ziggy giving her special knowledge of the people and places they jump to. She's more experienced than Dan, but that's about it.


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

wprager said:


> 10 PM is an awful slot, I must admit.


That's one thing that I always forget... I am in CST and to me, my evening of TV ends at 10pm. At 10, we watch the news, get ready for bed etc.

10pm to me is time to decide if I want to stay up longer, or goto bed, that sort of thing.

It's no wonder that 10pm shows sometimes fail, since most peple should be sleepy and or going to bed at that time.

I mean, 10pm is 10pm regardless of the timezone. it's not like you guys where 10 is my 9 are all "hey, the night is still young" or similar right?

Here, primetime is 7-10pm. That just makes sense to me


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

jimest said:


> Below from the:
> Columbus Dispatch 12/13/2007
> 
> JOURNEYMAN
> ...


OK, that's what I thought. Same info that Kamikaze posted here yesterday.

Not officially cancelled yet. Hanging on by a thread. A very thin, almost invisible thread.


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## DianaMo (Oct 22, 2003)

Journeyman did pretty well in this survey...

What do you watch on Monday nights? (multiple choice)
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=375773


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

jimest said:


> Below from the:
> Columbus Dispatch 12/13/2007
> 
> JOURNEYMAN
> ...


And, as I posted much earlier in this thread, this is NOT new information. This has been disseminated on other Journeyman threads the past week.


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

rkester said:


> That's one thing that I always forget... I am in CST and to me, my evening of TV ends at 10pm. At 10, we watch the news, get ready for bed etc.
> 
> 10pm to me is time to decide if I want to stay up longer, or goto bed, that sort of thing.
> 
> ...


Well, I wonder then if 10PM shows like Journeyman do better in the Central time zone, since they come on there at 9PM?

I guess there's no place that breaks the rating out by time zone is there?


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## flyers088 (Apr 19, 2005)

RIP Journeyman you will be missed. Bring on the overpriced DVD set!!


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## BurnBaby (Sep 21, 2007)

tvguide's unscientific poll shows that 92% of the respondants said NBC should reconsider its decision (I think you may have to login to vote):

http://community.tvguide.com/poll.jspa?pollID=800000547

Here's the original tvguide article (talks about fan efforts to save the show):

http://community.tvguide.com/blog-e...g/Todays-News/Journeyman-Saved-Rice/800029278


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

It was a solid show, but not great IMO. I don't know what will be revealed during the final two episodes, but I hope it comes to at least some semi-satisfying closure.

If it doesn't I'll always wonder about where it could have gone, but didn't. And that's what drives me nuts.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

BurnBaby said:


> tvguide's unscientific poll shows that 92% of the respondants said NBC should reconsider its decision (I think you may have to login to vote):
> 
> http://community.tvguide.com/poll.jspa?pollID=800000547
> 
> ...


Well, that's not a fair poll, because most of those who took it were interested enough in the series to read an article about it's cancellation. And I would guess that'd be people who watched the show regularly. Fans.

So the number (now 87% positive, as I write this) isn't that surprising.


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## BurnBaby (Sep 21, 2007)

Right that's why I said "unscientific"  

More so than being accurate, the poll does reflect that this show has a loyal fanbase, one that would like to see the show continue. My point was that there is some viewer momentum here. Btw, I just checked it and it unscientifically says 93&#37;.


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## RunnerFL (May 10, 2005)

jrinck said:


> Like how Dexter was based on a book, and if they never picked up season 2, there would still have been full resolution.


Ahhh, but the first Dexter book does not end like Season 1 did so technically there would not have been full resolution. And book 2 is definitely not season 2.

In the interest of not spoiling the books I won't say what's different.


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## jones07 (Jan 30, 2001)

Didn't wish to get emotionally invested in another doomed scifi show on FOX. 
Been there, Done that.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

jones07 said:


> Didn't wish to get emotionally invested in another doomed scifi show on FOX.
> Been there, Done that.


Except that it was on NBC.

(Produced by 20th Century FOX, but so is a lot of stuff on TV.)


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Damn, this show was so good, but wasn't promoted enough (like Chuck and Bionic Woman), and had a tough time slot (10 pm, against CSI, Football, DWTS.) If this show was against Ghost Whisperer, it would have cleaned JLH's clock.


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## jones07 (Jan 30, 2001)

LoadStar said:


> Except that it was on NBC.


Sorry 

Deleted all my unwatched eps last week an forgot the network. Whenever a good scifi show is canned I just assume FOX


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## ZooCaretaker (May 22, 2007)

I don't understand why folks cancel season passes or delete unwatched episodes of a show that they know is so good.... even if the show has fullfilled it's contract and not been renewed (_note: specifically not mentioning the 'C' word_)

Not wanting to get involved with something that's not coming back is a reason I've heard -- But I don't understand it. Do these folks not watch movies or mini-series, because they don't have a sequel.

The series Journeyman as it stands today is longer, more intricate and involved than a movie ... which does not have a sequel season after season.
It's kinda like a mini-series ... which may or may not tie up all loose ends at it's conclusion. 
It's a fantastic show -- even if it won't continue.

Why would folks not want to see it?


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

ZooCaretaker said:


> I don't understand why folks cancel season passes or delete unwatched episodes of a show that they know is so good.... even if the show has fullfilled it's contract and not been renewed (_note: specifically not mentioning the 'C' word_)
> 
> Not wanting to get involved with something that's not coming back is a reason I've heard -- But I don't understand it. Do these folks not watch movies or mini-series, because they don't have a sequel.
> 
> ...


That's a good point...but I think people's fears come from being use to seeing networks pull the plug without finishing up whatever has already aired. Then that leaves things unresolved and nobody wants to be left hanging. It'd be like watching a movie and the projector in the theater goes out and the film is burned and you never get to see the rest of the movie...EVER.

In the case of Journeyman though, from what I hear, they ordered 13 episodes, they filmed 13 episodes. So its very likely they could end it in a way that ties up loose ends but may keep the door open for more episodes.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

jimest said:


> Below from the:
> Columbus Dispatch 12/13/2007
> 
> JOURNEYMAN
> ...


Even that's wrong.

Last I checked, the 12 episode is running in the Monday slot, but the 13th is going to air next WEDNESDAY, not the following Monday.


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

wprager said:


> ...Heroes is *not* a sci-fi show. Lost is borderline. Heroes is a comic book...


Heroes is a TV show that's generating an online comic as side-stories.

Heroes is a scifi TV show.


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## reddice (Mar 6, 2004)

I am not going to miss it too much. I started to watch it but did not watch the last three episodes because I knew it would get cancelled. There are some quirks that bothered me by the show. The fact that they always played music in the background of that time bothered me. Also how he would go into the past and it would make no major impact in the present centering around his family. Another one was the overuse of 555 numbers which make the show stand out as really fake. He would look at his iPhone and all 10 numbers would begin with 555. If that was true area codes would have to be long or longer than phone numbers.

Anyway I think no show can survive after Heroes on NBC just like no show can survive on ABC after Lost. Studio 60 floped at that time slot. That reality garbage floped too. Just like on ABC Invasion floped and so did other shows I can't remember. What NBC should do is move Heroes to 10 PM or just put Dateline on at that time.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

reddice said:


> ....There are some quirks that bothered me by the show. The fact that they always played music in the background of that time bothered me.....


Huh? So they should have played music that did NOT fit the time period?


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## Royster (May 24, 2002)

That was a game my wife and I played -- guess the year from the song playing. It was sort of fun.


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## whitson77 (Nov 10, 2002)

So basically there is no chance we get any kind of conclusion.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

whitson77 said:


> So basically there is no chance we get any kind of conclusion.


The 13th episode, scheduled to air next Wednesday, was written as a sort of mid-season conclusion, It obviously wasn't written as a series finale, but it will wrap up a few of the plot lines, supposedly. You won't be left totally hanging.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

reddice said:


> I am not going to miss it too much. I started to watch it but did not watch the last three episodes because I knew it would get cancelled. There are some quirks that bothered me by the show. The fact that they always played music in the background of that time bothered me. Also how he would go into the past and it would make no major impact in the present centering around his family. Another one was the overuse of 555 numbers which make the show stand out as really fake. He would look at his iPhone and all 10 numbers would begin with 555. If that was true area codes would have to be long or longer than phone numbers.




Have you ever seen any TV or movies? The 555 exchange is always used in entertainment specifically because it's fake. I don't see why that's a problem. Do you want them to use a real number that may actually belong to someone who would then get inundated with calls?

And the music was a specific touch they used to indicate the year Dan jumped to. It's pretty typical for period shows to use music from that period to indicate when the show is supposed to be taking place. Again, nothing new and I thought it was well done.

But I guess if you're going to dump a show for such irrational reasons, there's not much point in trying to talk some sense into you.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

DianaMo said:


> Journeyman did pretty well in this survey...
> 
> What do you watch on Monday nights? (multiple choice)
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=375773


Note that Dancing With The Stars placed *sixth* in that survey. The #1 show in the ratings came in 6th on a survey. That shows you how valid that survey is.
_
(no, I don't watch DWTS, but I know it's #1 in the ratings.)_


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## BurnBaby (Sep 21, 2007)

reddice said:


> Anyway I think no show can survive after Heroes on NBC just like no show can survive on ABC after Lost. Studio 60 floped at that time slot. That reality garbage floped too. Just like on ABC Invasion floped and so did other shows I can't remember. What NBC should do is move Heroes to 10 PM or just put Dateline on at that time.


Good point. Networks need to readjust their expectations for shows that follow blockbuster hits like Heroes and Lost. So many shows have hit the cancellation skids by having to follow the biggies.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

BurnBaby said:


> Good point. Networks need to readjust their expectations for shows that follow blockbuster hits like Heroes and Lost. So many shows have hit the cancellation skids by having to follow the biggies.


Well, in fairness the problem isn't what they're on after, it's what they're on opposite. NBC's hope was that enough of the Heroes crowd would stick around for Journeyman to put a dent in CSI: Miami. If NBC moved Heroes opposite CSI, then it would probably be Heroes being canceled (or moved) within weeks.

And while we can criticize them for continuing to throw shows in the path of the CSI juggernaut, they have to air SOMETHING in that time slot, and trying to maintain the audience of one of their biggest hits isn't an altogether stupid strategy. Unfortunately, not only did Journeyman not hold Heroes' audience, but Heroes' audience also shrank, so Journeyman was retaining less of less.


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## PurpleMonkeyDish (Dec 28, 2003)

reddice said:


> The fact that they always played music in the background of that time bothered me.





Bierboy said:


> Huh? So they should have played music that did NOT fit the time period?


I really liked that. I would always see if I cold figure out what year it was based on the song playing. I was pretty good at 80's songs.


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## BurnBaby (Sep 21, 2007)

It's true that the big factor is obviously does the show do well against the competition from other networks in the same timeslot? But retaining lead-in numbers is another factor networks consider when they make their decisions whether or not to cancel a show. Daybreak, for example immediately lost its lead-in numbers, which was an early sign of its demise. Studio 60 was able to hang in there for other reasons despite its lead-in numbers (critical acclaim, clout), at least for awhile. Losing lead-in numbers does factor into the decision.

This from Zap2it:


> "Journeyman" has earned some critical praise of late after tepid reviews for its pilot, but it has struggled in the ratings pretty much from the start. It's averaging 7.34 million viewers per week and a 3.0 rating in the adults 18-49 demographic advertisers care about most. The show also loses about 5 million viewers and half its 18-49 rating from its lead-in, "Heroes."


I agree that Heroes' shrinking ratings didn't do the show any good.

As for the music on the show, I thought it was always well done and not as intrusive and cheezy as Cold Case.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

I think the music was a nice touch, especially in the episode when Dan went back to the late 1990's being that that is the music of my teenage years and it's nice to reminisce. Maybe it's just me but I think almost 7.5 million people is a nice sized audience, especially against established hits like CSI. Given that there are about 100 channels on the basic cable package now, assuming every person in the country has cable and is watching TV, thats about 3 million viewers per channel. Add in the other 200-300 channels available along with the internet,video games, sleep, family, work, the lack of time-shifted viewing numbers and a social life outside the house--I think Journeyman is drawing a decent audience. It's not like it drawing CW network ratings. What does a show have to draw to not be considered for cancellation these days?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

I was fine with the music and other things that they'd use to set the scene, it's just that at times the seemed to be a little heavy-handed about it. There's a thing to be said for subtlety!


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Between this and the strike I am down to one Tivo. At this rate I may be able to cancel cable by the end next year. I am just so tired of the shows I like being canceled.


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## reddice (Mar 6, 2004)

busyba said:


> I was fine with the music and other things that they'd use to set the scene, it's just that at times the seemed to be a little heavy-handed about it. There's a thing to be said for subtlety!


Exactly. That is how I should have said it.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

Just a heads up. The last two filmed episodes of this "cancelled" show are airing one tonight and one Wednesday.


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## nedthelab (Oct 4, 2002)

PurpleMonkeyDish said:


> I really liked that. I would always see if I cold figure out what year it was based on the song playing. I was pretty good at 80's songs.


70's Always Disco (should have used some Bowie or Roxi Music..)
80's New Wave (Should have used Wang Chung)
90's Always the smashing pumpkins (should have used some REM)
00's I wasnt paying attention (don't care)

I guess this made up for shots of automobiles in the background that were not in the right time.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

This show hasn't been moved to the canceled list in Vito the Tivo's sticky, so I'll hang on to that tiny little thread of hope.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

DevdogAZ said:


> Have you ever seen any TV or movies? The 555 exchange is always used in entertainment specifically because it's fake. I don't see why that's a problem. Do you want them to use a real number that may actually belong to someone who would then get inundated with calls?


May be smeeking, but there are other fake numbers that they can use that aren't as common. Numbers beginning with 1 come to mind, or 911 area codes.


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## Havana Brown (Feb 3, 2005)

PurpleMonkeyDish said:


> I really liked that. I would always see if I cold figure out what year it was based on the song playing. I was pretty good at 80's songs.


But other shows or movies have had errors and played music from say, the following year.


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## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

scandia101 said:


> This show hasn't been moved to the canceled list in Vito the Tivo's sticky, so I'll hang on to that tiny little thread of hope.


Well, I did move it and then moved it back under protest.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Vito the TiVo said:


> Well, I did move it and then moved it back under protest.


This is one of those shows that falls between the cracks of general usage of "canceled" and the technical definition. Journeyman will probably never return, but it will also probably never be canceled (because everything that has been ordered has been produced and will have aired as of tomorrow). So not bringing the show back at this point is a purely passive process; NBC will just do nothing.

It is significant, however, that the show passed the deadline for renewal in the contract. Normally, that would be as final as it gets, but in this strike-weirded world, there is still a slim chance that NBC will be desperate enough for Fall content (in the probable absence of a pilot season this year) to justify bringing Journeyman back. Then again, the actors are no longer under contract and are no doubt lining up new work to the extent that they can in this strike-weirded world. The longer NBC waits, the greater the chance that somebody crucial will no longer be available.


----------



## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Maybe it falls under the category of retired.


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## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

I've usually held retired for shows that have ran for a significant amount of time, most likely hit their syndication package, and are ending somewhat on their own terms. Usually you have to announce it in advance as well, like Scrubs has this season.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> This is one of those shows that falls between the cracks of general usage of "canceled" and the technical definition.


It's a distinction without a difference.

Basically there will no longer be any new shows forthcoming[*], and not because they had some grand finale. From the point of view of a person sitting at home watching the show, it's been canceled.

_Technically_, Joe Torre wasn't fired from the Yankees; he refused their contract renewal offer. But for all intensive porpoises, he was fired. 

[*]Barring some strike-related miracle.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> This is one of those shows that falls between the cracks of general usage of "canceled" and the technical definition. Journeyman will probably never return, but it will also probably never be canceled (because everything that has been ordered has been produced and will have aired as of tomorrow). So not bringing the show back at this point is a purely passive process; NBC will just do nothing.


Like "Blade:The Series" - another promising show that wasn't given enough time to develop but that wasn't technically cancelled. At least Blade had a full season, if I recall.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

danterner said:


> Like "Blade:The Series" - another promising show that wasn't given enough time to develop but that wasn't technically cancelled. At least Blade had a full season, if I recall.


Wow...I'm sorry, but "Blade" and "Journeyman" aren't even on the same page together....there's no comparison. And I liked "Blade."


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Bierboy said:


> Wow...I'm sorry, but "Blade" and "Journeyman" aren't even on the same page together....there's no comparison. And I liked "Blade."


I agree - Journeyman is the far superior show between the two (though I liked Blade). My point is just that they had similar fates, not that they were of comparable quality while they existed.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

Journeyman producers should have put Moon in a nightie in the series premier.

Frank


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It is significant, however, that the show passed the deadline for renewal in the contract. Normally, that would be as final as it gets, but in this strike-weirded world, there is still a slim chance that NBC will be desperate enough for Fall content (in the probable absence of a pilot season this year) to justify bringing Journeyman back. Then again, the actors are no longer under contract and are no doubt lining up new work to the extent that they can in this strike-weirded world. The longer NBC waits, the greater the chance that somebody crucial will no longer be available.


For this reason alone, I hope the strike lasts until March or April. I could handle not getting new eps of any of my favorite shows until next fall if it also meant I'd get new eps of Journeyman (and S3 of Friday Night Lights).


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

danterner said:


> I agree - Journeyman is the far superior show between the two (though I liked Blade). My point is just that they had similar fates, not that they were of comparable quality while they existed.


I hear you....you're correct that both met untimely ends.


DevdogAZ said:


> For this reason alone, I hope the strike lasts until March or April. I could handle not getting new eps of any of my favorite shows until next fall if it also meant I'd get new eps of Journeyman (and S3 of Friday Night Lights).


That's the plan!


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

We can take comfort in the fact that if it does get canceled, Reed Diamond will be ok.


----------



## DianaMo (Oct 22, 2003)

Unless the situation improves, tonight will air the last episode of Journeyman.



> Wednesday, Dec. 19th 10/9c - "Perfidia" A love to last a lifetime - many questions will be answered in this special episode. TV-PG LV


http://www.nbc.com/Journeyman/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journeyman_tv


----------



## Generic (Dec 27, 2005)

There are no repeats of Journeyman which I think is foolish. This is a good time to air the repeats as all the other series have repeats. People who don't want to watch their series repeats may want to look at Journeyman for a "new" episode to them. This may increase the ratings but since the series has not been renewed, it is a moot point.


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## keyzersoce (Mar 23, 2002)

"Save Journeyman" Petition started: http://www.petitiononline.com/sjmnbc/petition.html


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## Sherminator (Nov 24, 2004)

Generic said:


> There are no repeats of Journeyman which I think is foolish. This is a good time to air the repeats as all the other series have repeats. People who don't want to watch their series repeats may want to look at Journeyman for a "new" episode to them. This may increase the ratings but since the series has not been renewed, it is a moot point.


If NBC would re-air during the off season, it might have helped to prove to them that Journeyman was a show worth renewing as those people who were told of the show 'over the water cooler' but reluctant to watch a show mid-run for fear of not being able to follow an existing story arc could join the show from the beginning.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

:up: Agreed. I think it's stupid not to air repeats of serialized shows. People who didn't have time for a show last fall may try it now when there's only reality on. Plus you could get something out of 1 show if you'd never seen it before. Obviously it's about time travel. Watching 1 ep out of order could just encourage you to watch from the beginning.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

fmowry said:


> Journeyman producers should have put Moon in a nightie in the series premier.


...and called the show "The Time Whisperer"


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

stellie93 said:


> :up: Agreed. I think it's stupid not to air repeats of serialized shows.


Only if they air ALL of them. I haven't even really thought of trying out some of the reruns of new dramas that I didn't catch in first run since I know they're not showing all of them.

I don't check out a random episode of a show.. If I like it, I record it, and want to see all of them until it's cancelled or I give up on it.


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## VinceKM (Feb 24, 2004)

Did anyone keep all the episodes? I'd love to have this series as a keeper on DVD.... I'm going to assume it won't be released commercially on DVD....


----------



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Its funny that the last show I got really into, only to have it disappear, was Do Over: another time travel show. (A guy gets zapped in 2000, and wakes up in his 14 year old body in 1980, with all his knowledge of the future intact. Episodes are on YouTube for those interested. Its a comedy.)


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

VinceKM said:


> Did anyone keep all the episodes? I'd love to have this series as a keeper on DVD.... I'm going to assume it won't be released commercially on DVD....


Why would you assume that? The norm these days is to release them on DVD, even if a canceled series didn't have a nice, tidy ending.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

VinceKM said:


> Did anyone keep all the episodes? I'd love to have this series as a keeper on DVD.... I'm going to assume it won't be released commercially on DVD....


Why not? They might even add some juicy stuff like extended scenes....outtakes...


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> Why not? They might even add some juicy stuff like extended scenes....*outtakes...*


...like nighties accidentally slipping off of crawling women perhaps?


----------



## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

busyba said:


> ...like nighties accidentally slipping off of crawling women perhaps?


Heyoooooooooooo!


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

VinceKM said:


> Did anyone keep all the episodes? I'd love to have this series as a keeper on DVD.... I'm going to assume it won't be released commercially on DVD....


I bet it will be. Cult flops always seem to have "complete series sets".


----------



## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

You mean like Daybreak?  I have been waiting for that for a year. Ironically, it also starred Moon Bloodgood. She does time-looping stories well I guess.


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Church AV Guy said:


> You mean like Daybreak?  I have been waiting for that for a year.


But did Daybreak even get more than a few episodes in the can?

Also, I don't think Daybreak got even a cult following, at least not a vocal one.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

busyba said:


> Also, I don't think Daybreak got even a cult following, at least not a vocal one.


Right, Journeyman managed to limp along to the end (of the initial order); Daybreak had, what, half the episodes available only online? It was one of those rare shows that makes Journeyman look like a smash hit.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

busyba said:


> But did Daybreak even get more than a few episodes in the can?
> 
> Also, I don't think Daybreak got even a cult following, at least not a vocal one.


Daybreak had a full and complete season...its just that they decided to only air the last episodes online. Why? Who knows! They only put more crap in its place that probably didn't do well in the ratings either...and the whole purpose of Daybreak was to have a show specifically to fill the 13 week gap that the LOST hiatus left. And they didn't even give it a chance to fulfil its purpose. Rather silly if you ask me...but I did very much end up liking that series. I'd buy it on DVD.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Church AV Guy said:


> You mean like Daybreak?  I have been waiting for that for a year. Ironically, it also starred Moon Bloodgood. She does time-looping stories well I guess.


My guess is Moon will avoid scripts with time travel mentioned from now on!


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

Moon needs to avoid parents who name their child "Moon Bloodgood".

She sure is pretty though.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

rkester said:


> Moon needs to avoid parents who name their child "Moon Bloodgood".


Well, I don't know...bets the hell out of Thelma Bloodgood!


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

rkester said:


> Moon needs to avoid parents who name their child "Moon Bloodgood".
> 
> She sure is pretty though.


M-O-O-N, that spells









Greg


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

gchance said:


> M-O-O-N, that spells
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It makes sense now...her parents were fans of The Stand.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Doggone it, she's engaged to Eric Balfour. DAAAAAAAAAAMN YOUUUUUUUU, Milo!!!

Greg


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

gchance said:


> Doggone it, she's engaged to Eric Balfour. DAAAAAAAAAAMN YOUUUUUUUU, Milo!!!


Cause, you know... that's the only thing standing in your way....


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## VinceKM (Feb 24, 2004)

busyba said:


> Cause, you know... that's the only thing standing in your way....


LOL!!!!!

That's hilariously funny  Made me laugh out loud. Great comeback :up:


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## VinceKM (Feb 24, 2004)

dswallow said:


> Why would you assume that? The norm these days is to release them on DVD, even if a canceled series didn't have a nice, tidy ending.


Doug, I'll be happy to eat my words.... but as someone else said, Daybreak hasn't been released either... I'd love to see that on DVD.

If Journeyman gets released, I'll be first in line to buy it, but I'm not gonna hold my breath. NBC gives no love to good shows. First Freaks and Geeks, now this.

Though, come to think of it, F& G got released on DVD... maybe we will get lucky!!


----------



## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

gchance said:


> Doggone it, she's engaged to Eric Balfour. DAAAAAAAAAAMN YOUUUUUUUU, Milo!!!
> 
> Greg


We need to somehow alter history so she never meets him...


----------



## Lars_J (Feb 1, 2005)

VinceKM said:


> If Journeyman gets released, I'll be first in line to buy it, but I'm not gonna hold my breath. NBC gives no love to good shows.


Actgually, isn't it FOX that owns the show? They would be the ones to put it out on DVD. The biggest issue for a DVD release appears to be the music royalties.

But I believe it will come out eventually. Since there was some definite closure in the final episodes it can be sold as a "complete series", and I think it could sell well.

And good DVD sales would be the most likely path of bringing the show back in some form. Firefly is the most obvious example where it has happened... That DVD release expanded the fanbase quite a bit. Due to contractual issues they made a movie, but otherwise the show might very well have been resurrected.


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

I think NBC owns the show. FOX is the studio that produced the show under contract to NBC. I'm not sure who would actually issue a DVD, but I'm sure NBC would have primary control over whether one gets issued.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

spikedavis said:


> We need to somehow alter history so she never meets him...


Per busyba...

Yeah. That'll help.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Lars_J said:


> Actgually, isn't it FOX that owns the show? They would be the ones to put it out on DVD. The biggest issue for a DVD release appears to be the music royalties.....


And I believe that may be the issue that is keeping Seasons 2 and 3 of American Dreams from DVD release.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Lars_J said:


> Actgually, isn't it FOX that owns the show? They would be the ones to put it out on DVD. The biggest issue for a DVD release appears to be the music royalties.


I'm pretty sure that when the music was selected for Journeyman, it was selected specifically with an eye on this issue. There were a couple of episodes where they changed songs at the last minute (you can even see the original song lyrics on the screen if you watch with captions on), specifically because they couldn't get rights to the song for a hypothetical future DVD release. They wanted to be sure that, if it goes to DVD, the music rights wouldn't hold up the process.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

gchance said:


> Doggone it, she's engaged to Eric Balfour. DAAAAAAAAAAMN YOUUUUUUUU, Milo!!!
> 
> Greg


Seems like I've seen him linked to more than one Hollywood hottie. What do the girls see in him? He's extremely ugly, IMO, especially with that uber-pointy chin.



appleye1 said:


> I think NBC owns the show. FOX is the studio that produced the show under contract to NBC. I'm not sure who would actually issue a DVD, but I'm sure NBC would have primary control over whether one gets issued.


A production studio owns the show and simply sells the broadcasting rights to a network. Once NBC let the option lapse, it had no interest in the show. The contract may allow NBC royalties on a DVD release, but they don't have control over it.


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> A production studio owns the show and simply sells the broadcasting rights to a network. Once NBC let the option lapse, it had no interest in the show. The contract may allow NBC royalties on a DVD release, but they don't have control over it.


You're probably right about the DVDs. But broadcasting rights are an important roadblock too. I doubt seriously that FOX now has the right to shop the show to other networks for instance. (Although it would be great if they did.)

I remember when The Mole was cancelled a lot of people had complaints that ABC would not let it move to another network or allow a DVD to be produced. Stone/Stanley, the production company, said they had no control over it. It's all in the contract details I suppose.


----------



## SnakeEyes (Dec 26, 2000)

http://www.mediablvd.com/magazine/Magazine-Home/mbnews7224605605.html
Here's a portion of a different interview with Brian Howe:

"Howe says that in the last days before filming wrapped up, the fan campaigns which were just beginning had been noticed by the shows crew. "The cast and producers and everybody are very aware of how much the fans do and keeping the show talked about and alive. You are the topic of conversations throughout the week, and you are heard, and you do matter," he said.

Brian attributes the show getting more of a chance than it might have otherwise to the complex nature of the deal between Fox and NBC. "Twentieth Century Fox is a producing partner on the show, so NBC has a bigger stake in deciding what to do with the show than they do with shows like Chuck or Life," he says. "NBC makes those shows and shows them. One of the things about committing to Journeyman is they really have to commit, because they are in on it with Fox. Who by the way loves the show. Fox has been so great. "


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

busyba said:


> Cause, you know... that's the only thing standing in your way....


Well, that and my wife. Details.

I talked to Moon, she's pretty upset over the whole deal.

Greg


----------



## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

Great show. It's a shame it's no more. There were a lots of directions the plot could go from where we were left off this week.

For anyone who didn't watch this season, I would encourage you to watch the show on DVD if/when it is released.


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

This has turned out to be my favorite new show this year. How disappointing.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

danterner said:


> I'm pretty sure that when the music was selected for Journeyman, it was selected specifically with an eye on this issue. There were a couple of episodes where they changed songs at the last minute (you can even see the original song lyrics on the screen if you watch with captions on), specifically because they couldn't get rights to the song for a hypothetical future DVD release. They wanted to be sure that, if it goes to DVD, the music rights wouldn't hold up the process.


Right, there's no excuse these days to ever have an issue with DVD music rights. It should be agreed upon before the production of the episode, or they need to choose a different song like happened a few times with JM.

Back in the day, there were tons of problems. I think The Larry Sanders show still can't be released in total for that reason.

-smak-


----------



## Bilbrey (Jan 28, 2001)

gchance said:


> I talked to Moon, she's pretty upset over the whole deal.


I'll bite... You talked to her about this?

Should have called the show "Time SURVIVOR", or "Time APPRENTICE"


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## medic8600 (Dec 23, 2007)

If we really want to see Journeyman return for another season, let's send some real letters...e-mails can be deleted too easily. You never know, thousands of real letters just might make them give it another shot. If not, at least we all tried...

Jeff Zucker c/o NBC
Re: Journeyman
30 Rockefeller Plaza
New York, NY 10112


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## megory (Jan 23, 2003)

BeanMeScot said:


> This has turned out to be my favorite new show this year. How disappointing.


Mine too. Pfui.


----------



## squigy0 (Mar 20, 2003)

Can we send them nuts?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

We should send them citrus and hope it explodes.


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## kmcorbett (Dec 7, 2002)

megory said:


> Mine too. Pfui.


Yeah mine too. I'm very disappointed.


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

squigy0 said:


> Can we send them nuts?





busyba said:


> We should send them citrus and hope it explodes.


Rice-a-Roni - see http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=374360


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Bilbrey said:


> I'll bite... You talked to her about this?


[TOMMYFLANNAGAN]Sure, she's my girlfriend.[/TOMMYFLANAGAN]

Greg


----------



## Bilbrey (Jan 28, 2001)




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## BurnBaby (Sep 21, 2007)

BeanMeScot said:


> This has turned out to be my favorite new show this year. How disappointing.


You're certainly not alone. I was bummed enough to actually send some Rice-a-Roni and a letter to NBC - never done anything like that before.

The Rice-a-Roni bulk site has collected over $2000 for bulk buys of Rice-a-Roni. NBC has taken notice. Hehe, how could they not.  And that's not counting the boxes people sent in themselve. Here's the quote from the blog:



> I just ordered 360 more boxes of Rice-A-Roni (15 cases of 24).
> 
> Grand total of 1038 boxes ordered as of tonight. That's roughly 450 lbs of Rice-A-Roni!
> 
> ...


Regarding who to write to about the DVD, there was a podcast interview with Kevin Falls. Kevin Falls said FOX would be responsible for putting out the DVD and that right now the music is the big issue, but that it's worth writing to FOX to let them know you'd like to see a DVD. [email protected] Anyone have a snail mail address for FOX execs?



appleye1 said:


> Rice-a-Roni - see http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=374360


There's an updated version of the top ten things list with more emails of NBC and FOX execs that the moderator pinned on the NBC board: it's called12 days of Journeyman It has all the people you can complain to that this show hasn't been renewed. 

SnakeEyes thanks for the link to the Howe interview, good interview.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

BurnBaby said:


> Kevin Falls said FOX would be responsible for putting out the DVD and that right now the music is the big issue


I don't understand why so many shows have DVD issues with the music.

When they get permission/contract to use the music in the show, why don't they handle the DVD permission at the same time?


----------



## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Amnesia said:


> I don't understand why so many shows have DVD issues with the music.
> 
> When they get permission/contract to use the music in the show, why don't they handle the DVD permission at the same time?


Because it's a totally different kind of rights issue.

Plus, it's just often not in the original production budget for the shows, and is pretty expensive to license. And they often will not even KNOW if there's going to be a DVD, depending on how popular the show is. Why bother paying for something you're not going to use?


----------



## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

BurnBaby said:


> You're certainly not alone. I was bummed enough to actually send some Rice-a-Roni and a letter to NBC - never done anything like that before.
> ...
> The Rice-a-Roni bulk site has collected over $2000 for bulk buys of Rice-a-Roni. NBC has taken notice. Hehe, how could they not.  And that's not counting the boxes people sent in themselve.


I sent NBC a whole case myself using buythecase.net. I've never done that before but I really like this show so what the heck.



BurnBaby said:


> There's an updated version of the top ten things list with more emails of NBC and FOX execs that the moderator pinned on the NBC board: it's called12 days of Journeyman It has all the people you can complain to that this show hasn't been renewed.


That's a good list. I'll add the link to my Journeyman Fans Please Vote thread.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Peter000 said:


> Plus, it's just often not in the original production budget for the shows, and is pretty expensive to license. And they often will not even KNOW if there's going to be a DVD, depending on how popular the show is. Why bother paying for something you're not going to use?


Oh, I certainly agree that they shouldn't *pay* for DVD rights unless they need to, but I still don't see why they can't agree how much to pay if they *do* need them...

Something like "OK, we'll pay you X dollars to use the song in episode 2 and another Y dollars if we end up making a DVD of the series".


----------



## BurnBaby (Sep 21, 2007)

Peter000 said:


> Plus, it's just often not in the original production budget for the shows, and is pretty expensive to license. And they often will not even KNOW if there's going to be a DVD, depending on how popular the show is. Why bother paying for something you're not going to use?


Good explanation - thanks.



appleye1 said:


> I sent NBC a whole case myself using buythecase.net. I've never done that before but I really like this show so what the heck.


Yeah exactly, can't hurt. And NBC is aware that the fans picked something that can be donated.



appleye1 said:


> That's a good list. I'll add the link to my Journeyman Fans Please Vote thread.


Oh great!



Amnesia said:


> Oh, I certainly agree that they shouldn't *pay* for DVD rights unless they need to, but I still don't see why they can't agree how much to pay if they *do* need them...
> 
> Something like "OK, we'll pay you X dollars to use the song in episode 2 and another Y dollars if we end up making a DVD of the series".


I don't know enough about the TV business to know if it's feasible for the shows to do this in advance. It may have to do with separate budgets being issued for the show and then for DVD production?


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

BurnBaby said:


> I don't know enough about the TV business to know if it's feasible for the shows to do this in advance. It may have to do with separate budgets being issued for the show and then for DVD production?


It seems to me that the production company would be able to get a better deal for the DVD rights if they're negotiated at the same time as the broadcast rights. If they wait until they've actually decided to make the DVD, then the music company (or whoever) knows they've got the production company over the barrel...


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Amnesia said:


> It seems to me that the production company would be able to get a better deal for the DVD rights if they're negotiated at the same time as the broadcast rights. If they wait until they've actually decided to make the DVD, then the music company (or whoever) knows they've got the production company over the barrel...


...which is probably why the music publisher isn't willing to negotiate future deals in advance. I bet it's cash up front or take your chances.


----------



## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Amnesia said:


> I don't understand why so many shows have DVD issues with the music.
> 
> When they get permission/contract to use the music in the show, why don't they handle the DVD permission at the same time?


Well, the show could be like Journeyman, and only have 13 episodes. If the show is not that popular, then the musician might settle for $1 per dvd or whatever. But what if the show is a Lost? Then the musician would get screwed if they took a lowball figure and the show was a mega hit.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

scottykempf said:


> If the show is not that popular, then the musician might settle for $1 per dvd or whatever. But what if the show is a Lost? Then the musician would get screwed if they took a lowball figure and the show was a mega hit.


You think $1 per DVD is a lowball figure?!?


----------



## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Amnesia said:


> You think $1 per DVD is a lowball figure?!?


He SAID "or whatever."


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

It's not like TV shows on DVD are at wildly different prices because of music rights cost differences. They're pretty standardly priced these days.


----------



## GoHalos (Aug 30, 2006)

dswallow said:


> It's not like TV shows on DVD are at wildly different prices because of music rights cost differences. They're pretty standardly priced these days.


If you go back and read any of the various "WKRP in Cincinnati" DVD threads, you can see how much of an issue the cost of music rights can be. I believe I remember that the cost of the music rights have prevented that series from having "real" DVDs, they just dub over most of the songs with generic music.

Whether they could do that with this series...

I don't think that this series is near as "married" to the music as WKRP was, but I could be wrong.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

GoHalos said:


> If you go back and read any of the various "WKRP in Cincinnati" DVD threads, you can see how much of an issue the cost of music rights can be. I believe I remember that the cost of the music rights have prevented that series from having "real" DVDs, they just dub over most of the songs with generic music.
> 
> Whether they could do that with this series...
> 
> I don't think that this series is near as "married" to the music as WKRP was, but I could be wrong.


I'm not saying there might not be some different costs, but in the end, we rarely see a season of a TV series vary in price. So apparently the only thing that might be going on is that someone is trying to hold out for "big bucks" such as rights holders of long-existing programs. There's very little evidence that position ever works, though, or we'd see much larger swings in prices of different series.


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## BurnBaby (Sep 21, 2007)

It could really be someone holding out for more money. Another factor to think of here is a show like Lost, which makes a lot in ad revenue has more money to spend on DVD production whereas a show like Journeyman which didn't do as well in the ratings (grumble, grumble grumble NBC for not promoting it well) doesn't have as much in its coffers to pay for the production of a DVD. 

Whatever the reason is though, I'm still writing FOX to ask them for a DVD. At least they'll know there's a demand for it.


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)




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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)




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## jwjody (Dec 7, 2002)

Just finished watching the last 2 episodes. I WANT THIS BACK!!



J


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## Bilbrey (Jan 28, 2001)

Yea, sadly it was cancelled just as it was showing some real promise...


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## kevinwill1 (Apr 18, 2004)

One of the best shows of the 2007-2008 season... Apparently the "powers that be" at NBC nowadays don't know a good thing when they see it. Oh wait, they ARE bringing back American Gladiators!!!


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## Bilbrey (Jan 28, 2001)

kevinwill1 said:


> One of the best shows of the 2007-2008 season... Apparently the "powers that be" at NBC nowadays don't know a good thing when they see it. Oh wait, they ARE bringing back American Gladiators!!!


LOL


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## tgr131 (May 23, 2001)

I just finished watching "Perfidia" last night, and wanted to add my voice to the mix. I truly will miss this show.

David


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

I still have to watch Perfidia, but after watching the few shows prior to the finale, I have to say I'm pissed that this show is gone. I was kinda on the fence in the beginning but I liked Kevin McKidd from Rome and Moon Bloodgood for obvious reasons so I stayed with it. I love the opening credits sequence to this show, the music and the visuals of the fog and the GG Bridge really get me psyched to watch this show.


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## BurnBaby (Sep 21, 2007)

What did you think of Perfidia, if you've watched by now?

Thought you all might like to know: Podcast interview with Kevin Falls, the creator of Journeyman, this weekend. More information about it:

http://savejourneyman.net/forums/index.php/topic,114.0.html


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## Hersheytx (Feb 15, 2003)

dswallow said:


> I'm not saying there might not be some different costs, but in the end, we rarely see a season of a TV series vary in price. So apparently the only thing that might be going on is that someone is trying to hold out for "big bucks" such as rights holders of long-existing programs. There's very little evidence that position ever works, though, or we'd see much larger swings in prices of different series.


What is happening is the studios are working out the deal for the music before they even start the show. Get it upfront that they can use the music and then no problems. WKRP made a lot of waves in the industry. No deal is made for a movie or TV show before things like merchandising and music (and actors for sequels) are worked out.


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

This was definately my favorite new show of the season. It was well scripted and well acted. VERY dissappointing that it won't be back.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Hersheytx said:


> What is happening is the studios are working out the deal for the music before they even start the show. Get it upfront that they can use the music and then no problems. WKRP made a lot of waves in the industry. No deal is made for a movie or TV show before things like merchandising and music (and actors for sequels) are worked out.


Apparently it didn't happen that way with Wonder Years.


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## PajamaFeet (Mar 25, 2004)

Journeyman was my favorite show in years. It's so disappointing that shows like this don't appeal to the mainstream in a way that would convince the networks to keep them on the schedule. So sad.

With this cancellation and the writers' strike, I'm definitely re-evaluating my entertainment choices and watching a lot less TV. I suppose that is a good thing and I should thank NBC making one of my vices (TV watching) less appealing.


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## flyers088 (Apr 19, 2005)

BurnBaby said:


> What did you think of Perfidia, if you've watched by now?
> 
> Thought you all might like to know: Podcast interview with Kevin Falls, the creator of Journeyman, this weekend. More information about it:
> 
> http://savejourneyman.net/forums/index.php/topic,114.0.html


Thanks for the information.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

DUDE_NJX said:


> Apparently it didn't happen that way with Wonder Years.


Did Wonder Years come out on TV before or after they started trying to put WKRP on DVD?


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## shady (May 31, 2002)

I was busy with other stuff in the Fall, so I'm just catching up with my Tivo'd shows. Last week I had a marathon Journeyman session (watched all the episodes that week) and it's a real shame it's over.

I've just started on Prison Break now!


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