# Brand New Mini already activated?



## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

I bought a Mini on eBay brand new. It is the 93000 with RF remote.

It actually looked brand new, sealed, and everything inside wrapped and pristine. This is not my first Mini, so I can easily tell.

When I tried to activate online, it said this TSN is already activated. I was stunned, tried to call TiVo but they were already closed.

What do I do? Will I have any issues when I call them tomorrow? Will they charge me anything or refuse to activate it for my account?


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

I don't think you'll have an issue. 

I would contact the seller and ask what is up with it now.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

waynomo said:


> I don't think you'll have an issue.
> 
> I would contact the seller and ask what is up with it now.


I did immediately. No answer for now


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

thyname said:


> I bought a Mini on eBay brand new. It is the 93000 with RF remote.
> 
> It actually looked brand new, sealed, and everything inside wrapped and pristine. This is not my first Mini, so I can easily tell.
> 
> ...


If the seller originally bought it directly from Tivo, it is immediately activated to their account, they may not even realize this if it was never used. Assuming this was a legit purchase you will eventually get the mini transferred to your account even if the seller is uncooperative but Tivo may make you wait a few days to complete the transfer. 
However, if it appears that the mini came directly to you from Tivo, you might be the victim of a scam. 
Even if it is a scam, Ebay/PayPal, will refund your money so don't worry too much. At this point, it is even odds or better that you will be able to use the mini and hopefully, the seller is just unaware how to properly transfer equipment to a new owner.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

fcfc2 said:


> If the seller originally bought it directly from Tivo, it is immediately activated to their account, they may not even realize this if it was never used. Assuming this was a legit purchase you will eventually get the mini transferred to your account even if the seller is uncooperative but Tivo may make you wait a few days to complete the transfer.
> However, if it appears that the mini came directly to you from Tivo, you might be the victim of a scam.
> Even if it is a scam, Ebay/PayPal, will refund your money so don't worry too much. At this point, it is even odds or better that you will be able to use the mini and hopefully, the seller is just unaware how to properly transfer equipment to a new owner.


Now that you said this, I went back to check the box the Mini came with, and ther is shipping slip that it appears to be coming from TiVo with my name and the address on it. Weird!

Victim of a scam? What can possibly happen?


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

thyname said:


> Now that you said this, I went back to check the box the Mini came with, and ther is shipping slip that it appears to be coming from TiVo with my name and the address on it. Weird!
> 
> Victim of a scam? What can possibly happen?


Sounds like they used a stolen credit card. What kind of rating did the seller have?


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

waynomo said:


> Sounds like they used a stolen credit card. What kind of rating did the seller have?


He had zero ratings. But he had 5 Minis for sale, all brand new. He also replied to my message when I had a question.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

thyname said:


> He had zero ratings. But he had 5 Minis for sale, all brand new. He also replied to my message when I had a question.


Zero rating. Alarm bells going off. 5 for sale and yours was drop shipped from TiVo. More alarm bells. Answering a question before the sale or even now means nothing if he is scamming.

I would report this to eBay immediately. Tell them what you know so far and that you think you've been scammed. Tell them that you're still not sure, but you're gathering evidence.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

Question for the group...

Let's say that thyname is the victim of a scam where the seller was using a stolen credit card. Let's say however, that thyname is able to successfully transfer the Mini and activate it on his account. Let's say that the credit card fraud isn't discovered for a month. Would TiVo retroactively disable the TiVo Mini?


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## GranniePurpyl (Jul 2, 2016)

The same thing happened to me. When I spoke to customer service, we discovered I had entered the wrong SN. The letters on the tag are so tiny, even with a magnifying glass, both my husband & myself mistook the 6s for 5s.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

waynomo said:


> Question for the group...
> 
> Let's say that thyname is the victim of a scam where the seller was using a stolen credit card. Let's say however, that thyname is able to successfully transfer the Mini and activate it on his account. Let's say that the credit card fraud isn't discovered for a month. Would TiVo retroactively disable the TiVo Mini?


Assuming this is for certain a fraud, yes Tivo will disable the unit and it can take up to 2+ months depending on the credit card's billing cycle. Tivo will then generously help you by offering to allow you to fully pay for the mini, including all taxes etc., it comes to about $160+ and no they will not offer you any kind of discount. 
They may well initially activate the mini for you though until they get the charge back from the cc company. 
The good news is that either Ebay or PayPal will refund the full amount you paid. BTW, the ebay seller's rating is meaningless in this situation as the seller's identity has been stolen in full and the account has been completely high jacked.
On the bright side, you will not be required to return the unit to anyone as their is no one to return it to, so, you have a spare remote, and power supply for your trouble.
EDIT: What makes this entire scam possible by the way is Tivo's policy to continue to allow purchases to be shipped to an address and name not linked to the credit card.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

Update:

Called TiVo as soon as they opened. It appears that the Mini was in another TiVo account with my name on it. He could not share anything else in terms of the payment, just that it was under a yahoo email address that I don't have. I don't have a Yahoo email address at all. Name and the address on the that account was mine.

He transferred that account to my actual account, and after a few reboots and TiVo connections on Bolt and Mini, it is now working.

I explained the technician (name was Paul) my concern. He said that it is not common the way that this was done, but happens many times (in terms of a third party seller establishing an account for the buyer before selling the TiVo to them being shipped directly by Tivo).

He said I have nothing to worry about for now. As fcfc2 said, if there is a fraud with the financial transaction, TiVo will stop service on the Mini AND either request me to return the TiVo to them, or pay the full price. If that would be the case (again, Paul said nothing to worry for now), then I should seek reimbursement from either Seller or eBay.

Any suggestions? Should I contact eBay immediately, or should I just wait and continue to use TiVo Mini?

Thank you!


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

thyname said:


> Update:
> *AND either request me to return the TiVo to them*, or pay the full price. If that would be the case (again, Paul said nothing to worry for now), then I should seek reimbursement from either Seller or eBay.
> 
> Any suggestions? Should I contact eBay immediately, or should I just wait and continue to use TiVo Mini?
> ...


The bolded part is new but I would just keep the unit for the remote and power supply for my trouble. 
I would contact Ebay now but do not be surprised if they seem not too interested or seem to do nothing. Right now you really don't have "proof" that the deal is a fraud and good old Tivo who has the actual credit card information is going to do nothing either. Until the charge back, then you find that your mini will suddenly be deactivated.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

Again, I would message eBay so there is a record. Let them know your concerns. 

Oh, and in a month or two update this thread.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

Thanks for the advice guys, which I took.

I called eBay and let them know about the suspicion, and requested they make a detailed note on the transaction. 

One thing to note is that eBay would not protect anything beyond 30 days from delivery of product. Fortunately, I payed via PayPal whose protection lasts for up to 180 days from purchase.

Hopefully nothing wrong will come out of this. I will make sure I update this thread if it does surface.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

What did you pay for the mini?


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

lew said:


> What did you pay for the mini?


$90 shipped


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

thyname said:


> $90 shipped


A very low price and "several available" for a "new" device is a characteristic of a scammer, as they need to get their sales done as fast as possible, before that first charge back occurs and everything comes crashing down.
The next most important clue is that the item is shipped directly from Tivo, legit retailers do not have items drop shipped from Tivo already activated. They buy in quantity, the items are shipped to them and from them to the purchaser.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

$90 shipped is more then a 30% discount. Shipped from tivo means you're not dealing with a company looking to dump inventory.

Is it a scam? Maybe. (Probably?)

I don't know the minimum purchase guarantees tivo demands from resellers. Is it possible the seller needed to sell 5 more units during the first 6 months? I'd give it a mythbuster plausible.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

thyname said:


> $90 shipped


Almost surely a scam (99.9%). The person who sold it to you would have had to pay much more than $90 to TiVo. If I were you I would try and get eBay to immediately refund your money so you don't have the hassle of finding your Mini dead in a month or two and then trying to explain why it took you so long to deal with the issue.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

lew said:


> $90 shipped is more then a 30% discount. Shipped from tivo means you're not dealing with a company looking to dump inventory.
> 
> Is it a scam? Maybe. (Probably?)
> 
> I don't know the minimum purchase guarantees tivo demands from resellers. Is it possible the seller needed to sell 5 more units during the first 6 months? I'd give it a mythbuster plausible.


You are overlooking that it shipped directly from TiVo. It's not like the seller purchased a bunch of them at a discounted price.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

UCLABB said:


> Almost surely a scam (99.9%). The person who sold it to you would have had to pay much more than $90 to TiVo. If I were you I would try and get eBay to immediately refund your money so you don't have the hassle of finding your Mini dead in a month or two and then trying to explain why it took you so long to deal with the issue.


Ebay, unless the seller/scammer has already been established as a fraud, will not immediately do anything, and the buyer really doesn't have much to be concerned about unless they somehow didn't use PayPal. Once the mini is deactivated, it won't take too long too get Ebay or PayPal to refund your money.
Meanwhile, as I have already noted, you have a spare remote and power supply.
There is no "and, if, or but" about the deal, Tivo does not *DROP SHIP* for any retailer. So if spending $160+ for a mini from Tivo and re-selling it on Ebay for $90 minus the Ebay and PayPal fees is a "Mythbuster's plausible", I am going to contact them with some acreage I have for sale on the Moon.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

fcfc2 said:


> Ebay, unless the seller/scammer has already been established as a fraud, will not immediately do anything, and the buyer really doesn't have much to be concerned about unless they somehow didn't use PayPal. Once the mini is deactivated, it won't take too long too get Ebay or PayPal to refund your money.
> Meanwhile, as I have already noted, you have a spare remote and power supply.
> There is no "and, if, or but" about the deal, Tivo does not *DROP SHIP* for any retailer. So if spending $160+ for a mini from Tivo and re-selling it on Ebay for $90 minus the Ebay and PayPal fees is a "Mythbuster's plausible", I am going to contact them with some acreage I have for sale on the Moon.


I got into almost the same deal when the Roamio first came out, got a 40% discount (from a seller) on a new un-activated Roamio Plus that was shipped directly from Best Buy, I called Best Buy and asked if the order was OK and they said yes, and I could return the Roamio for a full refund at list price!, I just paid TiVo for activation and never had any problem, that was about two years ago,"Mythbuster's plausible"?? .

I guess Best Buy could have come back to me if they got a charge back, but they could not cut off my service as Best Buy did not know the Roamio's TSN.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

fcfc2 said:


> EDIT: What makes this entire scam possible by the way is Tivo's policy to continue to allow purchases to be shipped to an address and name not linked to the credit card.


I have used this feature to give a TiVo as a gift to my adult kids, as I want it in their name and in their TiVo account when they get the unit.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

lessd said:


> I have used this feature to give a TiVo as a gift to my adult kids, as I want it in their name and in their TiVo account when they get the unit.


And apparently Tivo sells enough of those ship to somebody else units and since they have the comeback of disabling any fraudulent purchases it must be worth it to them even if they lose the hardware. I would be surprised if some bean counter has not done the calculations, but on the customer service side it is a looser. 
BTW shipment from any other retailer of Tivo equipment is not the same as being shipped directly from Tivo, for one it is not activated and the onus is on the retailer if they choose to ship to someone not on the credit card account. Any fraud on such a transaction is on the retailer for doing so, and the end customer if quickly resold is free and clear to use the Tivo equipment.
The issue at hand is to identify an "EBAY" scam as this will have a direct impact on the buyer, unlike fraudulent credit card purchases on other retailers.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

UCLABB said:


> You are overlooking that it shipped directly from TiVo. It's not like the seller purchased a bunch of them at a discounted price.


Not overlooked at all. I said I don't know what requirements tivo puts on re sellers. Some companies drop ship as a service to their dealers. Some companies have minimum order (quota) requirements. It's plausible, some circumstances/some industries, a vendor will sell product below cost. I'm thinking to either qualify for a bonus or to meet minimum order requirements for the first half of the year. Selling for a few dollars below cost on ebay might be preferable to the vendor then ordering 3 minis, paying for them then sitting on them hoping to sell.

I think scam is more likely.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

I am the OP. I am surprised of all the "noise" this caused in here, but I do appreciate everybody chiming in with their experiences, knowledge and advice.

It is unimaginable that people could do such things in such scale to make a quick buck (or two), but I guess some do, even on eBay, which you would think has decent standards and policies to prevent scams and fraud. I guess I know now.

I would not be so surprised with the price I got on the Mini, as it has been discounted before and often. Amazon has sold it for about $117 (free same day shipping for Prime), and one time I remember at about $110. The seller had them listed at "buy now" for $110 or best offer. It showed 2 out five remaining when I offered $90, honestly thinking it would be rejected, as it was advertised brand new. I did not even look at his ratings, until surprisingly my offer was accepted, and I had no choice but to pay up. I did have a bad feeling from the start though, I must admit.

The rest is history, and the worst case scenario is me purchasing it at full price from TiVo with me being brandished as a scammer form TiVo and who knows what (even though this can be certainly traced to somebody other than me), and then getting my $90 back from PayPal. I have already conceded to this, and fully accept it. I was certainly careless.

It is strange though that TiVo rep did not sound worried at all, quickly transferred it to my real account, and made it work. He kept telling me there is no issue for now, and nothing he would be concerned with, so should I. I guess time will tell, and I'll make sure I update this thread if/when Mini stops working.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

thyname said:


> I am the OP. I am surprised of all the "noise" this caused in here, but I do appreciate everybody chiming in with their experiences, knowledge and advice.
> 
> It is unimaginable that people could do such things in such scale to make a quick buck (or two), but I guess some do, even on eBay, which you would think has decent standards and policies to prevent scams and fraud. I guess I know now.
> 
> ...


Until the owner of the credit gets their bill, could be as much as 20 days after the charge, than takes the time to look at the charges (some people may not even look, and just pay and you would never know) the time could be almost 2 months, or more by the time TiVo gets the charge back, and gets to cancel your service. As PayPal just recently went to 180 days for disputes it will not be a problem for you.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

lessd said:


> Until the owner of the credit gets their bill, could be as much as 20 days after the charge, than takes the time to look at the charges (some people may not even look, and just pay and you would never know) the time could be almost 2 months, or more by the time TiVo gets the charge back, and gets to cancel your service. As PayPal just recently went to 180 days for disputes it will not be a problem for you.


The seller had five of those for sale. All "buy now" or submit best offer. It is unimaginable that somebody with a credit card woul not notice total unauthorized charges of $750+, assuming the guy had purchased them at full price from TiVo with the stolen credit card.

The shipping slip from TiVo had a date of 6/16, same day I made my paypal payment. I have the email address on PayPal from the person who received the payment, as well as his full name. His email address was verified by PayPal. If this person indeed committed credit card fraud, it can be easily traced back to him.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

thyname said:


> The seller had five of those for sale. All "buy now" or submit best offer. It is unimaginable that somebody with a credit card woul not notice total unauthorized charges of $750+, assuming the guy had purchased them at full price from TiVo with the stolen credit card.
> 
> The shipping slip from TiVo had a date of 6/16, same day I made my paypal payment. I have the email address on PayPal from the person who received the payment, as well as his full name. His email address was verified by PayPal. If this person indeed committed credit card fraud, it can be easily traced back to him.


Hi,
Back when this happened to me, I did quite a bit of research to try and figure out how this kind of scheme worked. Although there are several variations, sometimes a guy with a stolen ID will setup an a fake bank account, Ebay account, etc., sometimes if the ID is linked to a existing Ebay account, they just high jack that. People are careless, and tend to use the same user names and passwords on multiple accounts. The crook changes the address on the accounts and the email notifications sometimes so, the ID theft victim has no clue what is going on for quite some time, easily months, meanwhile the crook is using Ebay as a front to sell the fraudulent purchases, usually at a steep discount to move fast, speed is important to these guys because they know the clock is ticking but until the charge backs start coming in for the credit card(s), there are often several, no one is the wiser. If the amounts coming in are large enough, these guys have been know to even make the small "minimum" payment for a month on the cc, to keep the scam going even longer. 
These people are "professionals" and often operate in rings. They do this stuff for a living and they can do very well and when an account or bogus ID is discovered, they already have the next one lined up and ready to go. The bank withdrawals are always done in cash usually via an ATM.
EDIT: The names and addresses which are readily found are going to be bogus in almost all cases, and even when they are not, the person named is likely a victim of identity theft.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

fcfc2 said:


> Hi,
> Back when this happened to me, I did quite a bit of research to try and figure out how this kind of scheme worked. Although there are several variations, sometimes a guy with a stolen ID will setup an a fake bank account, Ebay account, etc., sometimes if the ID is linked to a existing Ebay account, they just high jack that. People are careless, and tend to use the same user names and passwords on multiple accounts. The crook changes the address on the accounts and the email notifications sometimes so, the ID theft victim has no clue what is going on for quite some time, easily months, meanwhile the crook is using Ebay as a front to sell the fraudulent purchases, usually at a steep discount to move fast, speed is important to these guys because they know the clock is ticking but until the charge backs start coming in for the credit card(s), there are often several, no one is the wiser. If the amounts coming in are large enough, these guys have been know to even make the small "minimum" payment for a month on the cc, to keep the scam going even longer.
> These people are "professionals" and often operate in rings. They do this stuff for a living and they can do very well and when an account or bogus ID is discovered, they already have the next one lined up and ready to go. The bank withdrawals are always done in cash usually via an ATM.
> EDIT: The names and addresses which are readily found are going to be bogus in almost all cases, and even when they are not, the person named is likely a victim of identity theft.


Great analysis. Problem for PayPal/E-Bay not the customer (except for time wasted)


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

Update:

Actually nothing to update. My Mini continues to work, and I have not heard anything from TiVo. 

I started this thread on 7/1/16, but the purchase of the Mini shows on 6/16/2016, so if it was a fraudulent purchase should have been reported by now, right?


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

thyname said:


> Update:
> 
> Actually nothing to update. My Mini continues to work, and I have not heard anything from TiVo.
> 
> I started this thread on 7/1/16, but the purchase of the Mini shows on 6/16/2016, so if it was a fraudulent purchase should have been reported by now, right?


Sorry, not actually. Mine took a bit over 3 months or potentially longer as it is up to the credit card company to determine if the account is being fraudulently used and the charges made are bogus. This can actually take a long time because if the true card owner has some type of auto-payment setup and does not carefully check his balance it could be almost indefinite period before the company starts charging back what it determines are fraudulent charges.
The first step is detecting that there has been fraud on the credit card, some credit cards if the account is established do not even freeze the account if one payment is missed but most do these days. The charge back to Tivo is what will trigger further action, and for me all that happened was the mini stopped working and a message on it came up saying, "your device has been deactivated" or similar and to call customer service. 
Unfortunately, when I did this Tivo didn't let me know what the problem was and I wasted several more days going back and forth mainly being told that it would have to be fixed in "engineering". Finally after nothing got fixed, I lost my temper and demanded to speak to a supervisor who seemed reluctant to tell me what had happened almost as though I was the one doing something fraudulent. I asked why didn't they just tell me from the beginning....no response, and then abruptly transfer to talk to someone in "sales". Their offer was great, simply authorize the payment of $160+ on my credit card and they would happily get my mini re-activated.
If you used PayPal, you have up to 6 months I believe to file a claim. Good luck but don't be surprised it you do get snagged, I kept the remote and power supply for my trouble.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

Thanks fcfc2! I guess I am not out of the woods yet.

I have done everything I could. I have notified eBay and Paypal each of them separately twice and asked them to log my detailed concerns. Same thing with TiVo. Hopefully, they did what they promised, and everything is logged in their systems. We'll see...


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

thyname said:


> Thanks fcfc2! I guess I am not out of the woods yet.
> 
> I have done everything I could. I have notified eBay and Paypal each of them separately twice and asked them to log my detailed concerns. Same thing with TiVo. Hopefully, they did what they promised, and everything is logged in their systems. We'll see...


I wouldn't worry too much, just make sure you are using that mini on a daily basis so you know right away if and when it might stop. But, if you got it "new" at a substantial discount from a seller on Ebay and then found it was actually sent directly from Tivo and it is already activated under your name with some bogus email.....the odds of it being fraud are just about 100%. 
It is also almost 100% likely that you will get a full refund from Ebay or PayPal. I would not sweat it.


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## srtdodge05 (Sep 25, 2015)

Samething happened to me when I bought a mini off amazon. Device was brand new. I tried to activate it but it was activated on another account. I contacted the seller and 24hrs later he gives me a email address and password to log into the account the device is on. To make a long story short. The guy used someone else credit card to buy the device. A fraud case opened against the seller and my device was black listed. Amazon gave me my money back. Tivo told me the device cant be used for anything or ever be activated again. I was able to get the device to work on my account for two months before it was black listed. I can still use the device to watch tv but all the apps are disabled on it.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

srtdodge05 said:


> Samething happened to me when I bought a mini off amazon. Device was brand new. I tried to activate it but it was activated on another account. I contacted the seller and 24hrs later he gives me a email address and password to log into the account the device is on. To make a long story short. The guy used someone else credit card to buy the device. A fraud case opened against the seller and my device was black listed. Amazon gave me my money back. Tivo told me the device cant be used for anything or ever be activated again. I was able to get the device to work on my account for two months before it was black listed. I can still use the device to watch tv but all the apps are disabled on it.


This sounds similar to the Ebay scams. Do you recall was the mini actually shipped from Tivo? The thing is these are just variations of many credit card scams, sometimes the original cc holder card is compromised other times an entirely new cc is opened with a bogus name and address and a vacant apartment or home is used to receive the goods, which are then either pawned or sold on line or through Craigs list etc. The goal is to turn the stuff into cash asap because the clock starts ticking as soon as the first cc payment is missed. They tend to target products that are popular and have a pretty good resale values, electronics are a favorite.
The thing is this is low priority stuff to law enforcement who tend to focus on violent crime and the buyers often aren't impacted at all financial, except for higher interest rates and prices on the goods, but it is the retailers or cc companies that are the usual losers. Tivos buyers because of the need for activation and ongoing service from Tivo are impacted, but financially they are normally compensated for their loss in one way or another.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

Update:

Other than just getting to 4 months since the Mini was purchased on a secondary account in my name, prior to be shipped to me directly from TiVo brand new, nothing to report.

Mini continues to work, and I have received no notice from TiVo or otherwise.

You would thing that four months is long enough time for a fraudulent credit card purchase to surface.

I guess this will remain a mystery....


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## JBDragon (Jan 4, 2004)

I got what I thought was a new Tivo Stream and had the same issue. It was already linked to a account. Tivo didn't have a problem fixing that and linking it to my account. It looked NEW.


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## Loach (Jan 11, 2013)

Looks like I'm in the middle of a similar situation with a bogus Amazon marketplace seller. Tivo said the Mini was on another account with an email address I don't recognize and could not be activated because it was paid for with a lost or stolen credit card. Mini was obviously drop-shipped from Tivo. Obvious this is a scam but I don't see any way to notify Amazon about it other than going through their communication process with the "seller" then invoking Amazon's A-to-Z guarantee. 

Meanwhile, with its angled shape and rubber feet, this Mini ultimately will probably make a nice doorstop....


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Loach said:


> Looks like I'm in the middle of a similar situation with a bogus Amazon marketplace seller. Tivo said the Mini was on another account with an email address I don't recognize and could not be activated because it was paid for with a lost or stolen credit card. Mini was obviously drop-shipped from Tivo. Obvious this is a scam but I don't see any way to notify Amazon about it other than going through their communication process with the "seller" then invoking Amazon's A-to-Z guarantee.
> 
> Meanwhile, with it's angled shape and rubber feet, this Mini ultimately will probably make a nice doorstop....


Just call Amazon and report exactly what Tivo told you.


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## Loach (Jan 11, 2013)

Call Amazon? At what number? They don't exactly make it easy to find a way to reach them. Anyway, it's probably a moot point - already received an email from them saying they've processed my refund and it will post to my credit card in 1-2 business days. I was surprised to get this before the normal 48 hours that the seller is supposed to have to respond per Amazon's guidelines, and I of course still have possession of the Mini - this makes me suspect that Amazon already knows this seller was a fraud.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Loach said:


> Call Amazon? At what number? They don't exactly make it easy to find a way to reach them. Anyway, it's probably a moot point - already received an email from them saying they've processed my refund and it will post to my credit card in 1-2 business days. I was surprised to get this before the normal 48 hours that the seller is supposed to have to respond per Amazon's guidelines, and I of course still have possession of the Mini - this makes me suspect that Amazon already knows this seller was a fraud.


Hi,
Ever heard of google? I just searched for "amazon customer service" and in 2 seconds had no difficulty getting their phone number. Any number of questions can be found by just typing it in the google search engine, amazing how many folks don't use this.
I am pretty sure Amazon, just like Ebay tries to close the accounts of anyone they determine to be fraudulent as they will often be the one's stuck with the loss. The thing is there is a time lag, which may be significant, in completing the first transaction all the way through to Tivo's getting a charge back and then notifying the end customer. It is during this first time "lag" that several other transactions may have been started and this assumes only one credit card was compromised, but there could be several being used. 
In any case, once the account has been flagged as fraudulent, the usual delays in getting a refund processed are waived.
BTW, the remote is worth something unless you are required to return it for the refund...most are not. Amazon.com: TiVo Roamio Remote (IR and RF): Electronics


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

Amazon is pretty easy.. Go to the main page.. scroll down to help.. then click on more help contact us


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## Loach (Jan 11, 2013)

fcfc2 said:


> Hi,
> Ever heard of google? I just searched for "amazon customer service" and in 2 seconds had no difficulty getting their phone number. Any number of questions can be found by just typing it in the google search engine, amazing how many folks don't use this.
> I am pretty sure Amazon, just like Ebay tries to close the accounts of anyone they determine to be fraudulent as they will often be the one's stuck with the loss. The thing is there is a time lag, which may be significant, in completing the first transaction all the way through to Tivo's getting a charge back and then notifying the end customer. It is during this first time "lag" that several other transactions may have been started and this assumes only one credit card was compromised, but there could be several being used.
> In any case, once the account has been flagged as fraudulent, the usual delays in getting a refund processed are waived.
> BTW, the remote is worth something unless you are required to return it for the refund...most are not. Amazon.com: TiVo Roamio Remote (IR and RF): Electronics


Silly me - I was just trying to find it through the order help area of Amazon's own site. But they obviously don't want to be contacted by phone as they provide no phone numbers in there. I certainly would have Googled it if I had any concerns about getting refunded, but since I knew it was their problem and not mine, I didn't bother. Refund has already posted.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Loach said:


> Silly me - I was just trying to find it through the order help area of Amazon's own site. But they obviously don't want to be contacted by phone as they provide no phone numbers in there. I certainly would have Googled it if I had any concerns about getting refunded, but since I knew it was their problem and not mine, I didn't bother. Refund has already posted.


I've always, for the past 10 or more years, been able to speak with someone at Amazon.com, by going through its Help and contact menus. I reach an option there for Amazon to call me right back and after I click, my phone is ringing immediately. There separately may be an option there for the reverse, for the customer to call Amazon--I don't recall, as clicking the call-me-back option is easier and faster.


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