# NCTA CableCARD Deployment Update



## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

The NCTA submitted their Q3 report to the FCC dated 10/31/2013 showing a net loss of (9,746) retail CableCARDs with the top 5 MSOs (Cablevision, Charter, Comcast, Cox, and TWC) versus the (647) loss in Q2. If we include the next 4 MSOs in the count, the net loss was (3,000) meaning that MSOs 6 through 9 added approximatley 6,746 Retail CableCARDs in Q3. This relatively flat number compared to the heavy subscriber losses by TWC in Q3 portend a relatively flat q/q gross add number for TiVo in Q3. Comcast once again shared the most detail for their deployments. Comcast deployed 13,578 retail CableCARDs compared to 13,749 in Q2. Comcast's net retail CableCARD losses were (4,864) compared to net retail loss of (609) in Q2.

Read more: http://investordiscussionboard.com/boards/tivo/ncta-q3-update-cablecard-deployment-net-3000-retail-loss-top-9-msos


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Since TiVo is pretty much the only device that takes a retail CableCARD I wonder how much of this loss is due to people upgrading from multiple 2 tuner TiVos, each requiring their own card, to a single 4-6 tuner unit and Minis? At one point I had 5 CableCARDs and now I'm down to just 2.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

Thanks, I haven't seen these numbers before. Do you think they are accurate enough to say anything about TiVo? Neither the total numbers nor the Comcast new install numbers seem seasonal enough to match TiVo's seasonal pattern.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> Since TiVo is pretty much the only device that takes a retail CableCARD I wonder how much of this loss is due to people upgrading from multiple 2 tuner TiVos, each requiring their own card, to a single 4-6 tuner unit and Minis? At one point I had 5 CableCARDs and now I'm down to just 2.


I had speculated about that possibility over on the investor site. I think some of the retail loss is probably related to early Roamio adopters.



> I would speculate that Roamio/Mini upgraders have some impact on these numbers since its possible that thousands of multiple CableCARD households went to a one CableCARD Roamio whole home solution. It will be interesting to see what the holiday season brings with respect to CableCARD numbers that will be released by the end of January 2014. Over the same period, another 2 million CableCARD equipped set-top boxes were deployed by the nine companies.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

CrispyCritter said:


> Thanks, I haven't seen these numbers before. Do you think they are accurate enough to say anything about TiVo? Neither the total numbers nor the Comcast new install numbers seem seasonal enough to match TiVo's seasonal pattern.


If you look at the spreadsheet snapshot here, http://investordiscussionboard.com/boards/tivo/ncta-q3-update-cablecard-deployment-net-3000-retail-loss-top-9-msos, you will see that there is some seasonality to the numbers. I expect the number of CableCARDs to increase in the next quarter due to TiVo's advertising campaign and holiday sales.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

CrispyCritter said:


> Thanks, I haven't seen these numbers before. Do you think they are accurate enough to say anything about TiVo? Neither the total numbers nor the Comcast new install numbers seem seasonal enough to match TiVo's seasonal pattern.


Now that the Mini is in the equation to reduce the CableCARD pull it will be harder to gain meaningful TiVo metrics from the numbers until we see at least a full season including holiday sales. The numbers are accurate and I find it somewhat useful to track.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

The NCTA submitted their Q4 report to the FCC yesterday showing a net loss of (356) retail CableCARDs with the top 5 MSOs (Cablevision, Charter, Comcast, Cox, and TWC) versus the (9,746) loss in Q3. If we include the next 4 MSOs in the count, the net gain is 6,000 CableCards. As I expected, this improvement over Q3 portends a material increase in TiVo gross adds for Q4. Comcast once again shared the most detail for their deployments. Comcast deployed 12,434 retail CableCARDs compared to 13,578 in Q3. Comcast reported a net retail gain of 557 CableCARDs compared to net retail loss of (4,864) in Q3.

Read more: http://investordiscussionboard.com/boards/tivo/ncta-q4-update-cablecard-deployment-net-6000-retail-gain-versus-3000-loss-q3-top-9-msos


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> Since TiVo is pretty much the only device that takes a retail CableCARD I wonder how much of this loss is due to people upgrading from multiple 2 tuner TiVos, each requiring their own card, to a single 4-6 tuner unit and Minis? At one point I had 5 CableCARDs and now I'm down to just 2.


You're forgetting about cablecard tuners for PCs, which probably number in the tens of thousands by now, if not substantially more. Samsung also has a Smart Media Player that not only takes the place of a digital cable box but also has smart TV apps built in for streaming media. I'm sure there are a number of other devices out there, including older TVs with cablecard slots.


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## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

Yeah, the SiliconDust and Ceton numbers have to be significant enough now that at these levels of CableCard deployments, it's not really telling very much how TiVo is doing.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

JosephB said:


> Yeah, the SiliconDust and Ceton numbers have to be significant enough now that at these levels of CableCard deployments, it's not really telling very much how TiVo is doing.


Anything you can point me to that points to SiliconDust and Ceton (WMC) having significant CableCARD penetration? I queried my sources quite some time ago and most were thinking that TiVo account for at least 90% of the deployed CableCARDs. Also, on a quarter-to-quarter basis the numbers help establish a trend for TiVo and other CableCARD equipped devices. I do agree that the numbers are not exclusive of TiVo but they do seem to have a pretty good correlation to the results TiVo has been reporting at retail.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

mr.unnatural said:


> You're forgetting about cablecard tuners for PCs, which probably number in the tens of thousands by now


I'm betting it much lower then you think. HTPCs are still a very niche product, and CableCARD enabled HTPCs even more so. (Only used in the US/Canada and only for cable) And with MCE development ended those numbers are only going to dwindle going forward. Unless some 3rd party can get a scheme past CableLabs, or license MS's scheme, the future of PC based CableCARD tuners is very bleak.

Think about it this way.... TiVo only has about a million subscribers, and that includes those using them for OTA and also counts Minis. If TiVo does actually make up 90% of CC deployments, then that would mean there are less then 10K CCs being used for HTPCs.


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## moedaman (Aug 21, 2012)

Dan203 said:


> I'm betting it much lower then you think. HTPCs are still a very niche product, and CableCARD enabled HTPCs even more so. (Only used in the US/Canada and only for cable) And with MCE development ended those numbers are only going to dwindle going forward. Unless some 3rd party can get a scheme past CableLabs, or license MS's scheme, the future of PC based CableCARD tuners is very bleak.
> 
> Think about it this way.... TiVo only has about a million subscribers, and that includes those using them for OTA and also counts Minis. If TiVo does actually make up 90% of CC deployments, then that would mean there are less then 10K CCs being used for HTPCs.


I think that most people use pc tuners for ota use in an effort to "cut the cord".

I myself have a 3-tuner HTPC w/2tb hdd for ota recording. My three Tivo's are used for cable recording.


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## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

Dan203 said:


> I'm betting it much lower then you think. HTPCs are still a very niche product, and CableCARD enabled HTPCs even more so. (Only used in the US/Canada and only for cable) And with MCE development ended those numbers are only going to dwindle going forward. Unless some 3rd party can get a scheme past CableLabs, or license MS's scheme, the future of PC based CableCARD tuners is very bleak.
> 
> Think about it this way.... TiVo only has about a million subscribers, and that includes those using them for OTA and also counts Minis. If TiVo does actually make up 90% of CC deployments, then that would mean there are less then 10K CCs being used for HTPCs.


There's got to be more than 10,000 HD HomeRun Primes and Ceton cards out there. I know those companies have other products but it doesn't seem that 10k between them (and each of them have 2 or 3 CableCard products) would keep them in that business, but SiliconDust is about to come out with yet another HDHR Prime that does transcoding and is CableCard capable.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

JosephB said:


> There's got to be more than 10,000 HD HomeRun Primes and Ceton cards out there.


I'm sure there are. But we are talking about active Cablecard use. How many they sold and how many are currently using a cablecard in them are not the same. I wouldn't be surprised if that number was about right on.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

One of my sources at a TiVo partner got back to me... he says for his MSO TiVo makes up at least 75% of CableCARD requests... it may not be indicative of the rest of the MSO market in the US since that particular MSO offers TiVo as a leased solution as well. I would guess the number industry wide is around 85 to 90% TiVo leaving about 100,000 to 150,000 CableCARDs being currently deployed in non-TiVo devices.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

JosephB said:


> There's got to be more than 10,000 HD HomeRun Primes and Ceton cards out there. I know those companies have other products but it doesn't seem that 10k between them (and each of them have 2 or 3 CableCard products) would keep them in that business, but SiliconDust is about to come out with yet another HDHR Prime that does transcoding and is CableCard capable.


Ceton and Silicon Dust are both really small companies, so they wouldn't need to sell a ton of products to be profitable. They probably also have quite a few loyal customers who upgraded to newer versions of their products as they became available. As well as sales of secondary products like the Echo and OTA only options offered by SD.

Like rainwater said... Their total sales are probably higher, but the number of units actively being used with a CableCARD is probably not.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

If I remember the figures correctly there is about 130 million homes in the US. Of those about 77 million have cable, over 40 million have satellite, and about 3 million have OTA only. The rest of the homes are empty or abandoned, especially in the rural areas.
The story that people are cutting the cord is not correct as most people are jumping back and forth between cable and satellite. There is a slight rise in cord cutters but not as big as some have made out. The same goes for streaming as most people I know share their Netflix sreaming subscriptions as they do not want to pay for it.

As for CableCard use I know for a fact in my division there was about 12 CableCards in use and I own two of them. One of them users is using WMC as he has a small computer repair shop.
In the entire company of about 98,000 subscribers there is about 4 dozen CableCards in use and most of them are in TiVos and some homes like mine have multiple cards in use.
If TiVo does exit the consumer DVR market then this will spell the end for CableCards as there will be no demand for them. This will also enable the industry to cajole the FCC to end the separable security mandate.

Using my figure of 77 million cable TV homes the amount of actual cards in use per subscriber is quite small as you have to consider if multiple cards are in use per home. Remember the industry goes by the subscriber and not the actual number of cards deployed.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I have 3 cards even though I'm only using 2. I'm debating if I should return the 3rd or hold on to it. I live in a Charter area and they got that wavier saying that if they can come up with a downloadable scheme and get at least one retail DVR to support it then they can stop issuing new cards. I'm trying to decide if it's worth $2/mo as a backup incase one of the ones I'm using dies after they stop issuing new cards. Or maybe I should return it for now and pick one up at the last second if they come through with that retail option.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

I am not certain what would be the best thing to do in your case. I am worrying a little bit since the lay off announcement from TiVo especially when you combine this with the change in user policy last fall were we lost our ability to a class action lawsuit. It seems TiVo is gearing up towards getting out of the "consumer" DVR market and just focus on dealing with the MSOs.

I am afraid to upgrade to the 6 tuner Roamio as I own my two CableCards and my cable company indicated that I can not buy any new ones if I need them replaced. I would have to rent them for $3.05/month. Most of the STB fees are rolled into the channel package subscriptions so the saving will be almost nil for me if I have to rent.

I have been thinking lately that if TiVo throws the towel in then I myself will exit the TV watching business as I really don't like what is on TV anymore. I do not watch any sports or reality TV programming. I mainly watch the premium movie channels for movies and the original programming they offer. But I haven't been watching/buying any movies as I am not interested in vampire, zombie, comic book character based movies, and studios now remaking movies that are 20 years old. I all just seems to be a big waste of money.
I deleted the sports suggestion on the TiVo discovery bar as most of the time it would give me suggestions for sports. Now I see I am getting suggestions for sports in the other categories. I can't win.


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

I had six cards across five Tivo units, though I'm down to 5 when I swapped out a S3 for a Mini. Since I'm working to replace one of my Premiere XLs with a Mini and gift the Premiere XL to a relative, it'll drop my count to 4, though it'll keep the count constant with a lateral move.


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## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

One would think that everyone involved would be happy with TiVo households reducing the number of CableCards. Most cable companies rent them for such a low price that they're probably not making a profit, and having one vs. 3 or 4 in a house means it's easier to support both from TiVo's perspective and the cable company's perspective. Just hope that TiVo pushes back when CableCos use it as an excuse to drop support.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

JosephB said:


> Just hope that TiVo pushes back when CableCos use it as an excuse to drop support.


There in lies the problem. Cable cos are using the low numbers as a way to show that the technology is dying and as an excuse for the FFC to allow them to go back to proprietary security schemes.


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> There in lies the problem. Cable cos are using the low numbers as a way to show that the technology is dying and as an excuse for the FFC to allow them to go back to proprietary security schemes.


Which then screws anyone who's still using this "dying technology", of course. They still can't lock out customers from bringing their own solution, unless they're planning to get lawsuits filed over the country for monopoly tactics.

I'd probably just cut the cord and tell them to go F themselves if they tried this mess without giving us an "out" of some kind.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

JosephB said:


> One would think that everyone involved would be happy with TiVo households reducing the number of CableCards. Most cable companies rent them for such a low price that they're probably not making a profit, and having one vs. 3 or 4 in a house means it's easier to support both from TiVo's perspective and the cable company's perspective. Just hope that TiVo pushes back when CableCos use it as an excuse to drop support.


The largest cableCo, Comcast, generally rents them at a ripoff price for second and later cards (full outlet fee of $10 or so minus $2.50 credit, or around $7.50 net a month). Of course the first card is included with service and you get a $2.50 credit for that, so if you only have a couple of cards it's $5 a month net.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

How many people that order cablecards and get them activated are actually telling the provider that they're being used in a cablecard tuner for a PC? I'd be willing to bet that many of them are just telling tech support that they're being used in a Tivo to avoid any confusion about setting them up. I've seen numerous posts in various forums where people are being told to do just that. The provider doesn't really know how the cablecard is being used since they only need the Cablecard ID, Host ID, and Data number to activate the card. There's really nothing that identifies what kind of device it's inserted in. Tivo certainly has the largest market share, but I'd bet that the numbers may be a bit skewed in their favor.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

mr.unnatural said:


> How many people that order cablecards and get them activated are actually telling the provider that they're being used in a cablecard tuner for a PC? I'd be willing to bet that many of them are just telling tech support that they're being used in a Tivo to avoid any confusion about setting them up. I've seen numerous posts in various forums where people are being told to do just that. The provider doesn't really know how the cablecard is being used since they only need the Cablecard ID, Host ID, and Data number to activate the card. There's really nothing that identifies what kind of device it's inserted in. Tivo certainly has the largest market share, but I'd bet that the numbers may be a bit skewed in their favor.


I understand what you are saying, but these numbers are not based off of what customers tell the cable company. And btw, I believe they could tell what device cablecards are being used in based on the host id. Since TiVo knows exactly how many TiVos are deployed with cablecards in them, they are really the only ones who could provide a clear answer. Ceton and Silicon Dust probably have no way of tracking cablecard use.


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## eboydog (Mar 24, 2006)

Another issue with regards to cable cards and the statistics of who is using them, what about the cable cards that the the companies which use the cards for their own equipment? 

For example I have a CC tuner box from my cable provider (Mediacom) which has what appears a standard Motorola multistream card in it and the Mediacom branded Tivos that they are beginning to deploy all have cable cards in them. These statistics are only for the consumer use of the cards. I would like to see the real numbers for example of how many cards the companies bought and used in their own equipment versus the cards given out for third party hardware, be it Tivos, PC hardware or other consumer owned tuning hardware.

Unfortunately it appears that there are many big players that want to get rid of cable cards and these statistics are being used as another argument for such, not to mention last years court ruling against cable card. Eventually I suspect this will result in least choices for the consumer.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> I'm betting it much lower then you think. HTPCs are still a very niche product, and CableCARD enabled HTPCs even more so. (Only used in the US/Canada and only for cable) And with MCE development ended those numbers are only going to dwindle going forward. Unless some 3rd party can get a scheme past CableLabs, or license MS's scheme, the future of PC based CableCARD tuners is very bleak.
> 
> Think about it this way.... TiVo only has about a million subscribers, and that includes those using them for OTA and also counts Minis. If TiVo does actually make up 90% of CC deployments, then that would mean there are less then 10K CCs being used for HTPCs.


I'm going from 3 CC's down to 1 due to the Roamio + minis. I would actually suspect that TiVo is adding subs even while CCs are dropping.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Jed1 said:


> I am not certain what would be the best thing to do in your case. I am worrying a little bit since the lay off announcement from TiVo especially when you combine this with the change in user policy last fall were we lost our ability to a class action lawsuit. It seems TiVo is gearing up towards getting out of the "consumer" DVR market and just focus on dealing with the MSOs.
> 
> I have been thinking lately that if TiVo throws the towel in then I myself will exit the TV watching business as I really don't like what is on TV anymore. I do not watch any sports or reality TV programming. I mainly watch the premium movie channels for movies and the original programming they offer. But I haven't been watching/buying any movies as I am not interested in vampire, zombie, comic book character based movies, and studios now remaking movies that are 20 years old. I all just seems to be a big waste of money.


It is very unlikely TiVo will stop selling the Roamio for many years, replacement hardware (for the Roamio) may or may not come out for the retail market, but as of now the MSO market still takes cable cards inside the TiVo as it does for any MSO cable box. If cable cards were made optional by the FCC I am sure they would have to be supported for at least the next 10 years from the time they were made optional. As I see it the most that may happen in the next few years is consumers may not be able to rent any more cable cards directly from the cable co., I don't think this will happen any time soon or at all, but I don't believe that there will be any announcement that after X years all cable card TiVos and all MSO cable card boxes will not work and must be replaced with a new MSO box that does not use cable cards. Some people are still using the Series 1 TiVo, that what, 15 years old technology!!, As of April Windows XP will no longer be supported *BUT* your working XP will not be turned off, just no more updates. Most people on this Forum want the newest technology, but most people use what they have as long as it does what they want and don't spend the money to upgrade unless forced to (like moving to HDTV from SDTV)


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

eboydog said:


> Another issue with regards to cable cards and the statistics of who is using them, what about the cable cards that the the companies which use the cards for their own equipment?


AFAIK, those cablecards are not included in these stats since they are married to the cablebox.


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## eboydog (Mar 24, 2006)

rainwater said:


> AFAIK, those cablecards are not included in these stats since they are married to the cablebox.


I'm not so sure all of them are married, had issues with a cable box last spring and my CC sent a guy out, after finding the problem he swapped out the card out of the back on the box which was a standard Motorola cable card which fixed it. They are only married in the sense that a new one has to be paired just like our Tivos do.

Now this box I have from them is rather unique, I looked it up the net and found that by adding a USB hard drive, it becomes a dvr. I keep thinking about adding a drive to see what happens but i keep forgetting since it not high on my list of things to do.

Yes the stats provided only show the decrease in consumer supplied cards but the point is that there the cable company boxes take advantage of them, which of course the companies don't a big deal made of such. Still would be curious how many cards X company bought and the percentages used internally and not distributed to consumers.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

eboydog said:


> I'm not so sure all of them are married, had issues with a cable box last spring and my CC sent a guy out, after finding the problem he swapped out the card out of the back on the box which was a standard Motorola cable card which fixed it. They are only married in the sense that a new one has to be paired just like our Tivos do.


I don't know of many cable companies that will allow switching out a cablecard in their own box. They are not allowed to do that at TWC and Comcast. Perhaps a local tech did it for you but he probably wasn't suppose to. And on most of these cable boxes, the cards are pre-paired. The pairing process is not the same.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

http://investordiscussionboard.com/boards/tivo/ncta-president-michael-powell-sends-heartfelt-letter-fcc-chairman


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Same ole same ole - we don't want AllVid because we don't want to be dumb pipes providing IP streams to any and all comers with open standards. We want to control the user experience from end to end with our own apps and boxes so we can monetize every bit of it.

TV Everywhere is their standard answer to AllVid, but it's just another means to collude as an industry to force people to keep subscribing to their local cableCo instead of providing a true internet-based TV system to allow people to subscribe to whatever they want. They want nothing to do with an open IP access standard, they want to provide their own apps on these platforms and claim that's good enough, Tivo et al be damned. 

I also really wish the DoJ's investigation into Time Warner's 'exclusive' contracts with content providers had borne fruit, it would have forced an open market with compulsory licensing of content that we don't have today. There's a reason why there are no internet TV providers today to compete with cable and sat - exclusive tying and bundling that locks everyone else out. And if they were ever forced to open it up, the cableCos will cap HSI to get the money on the other end (this is happening again on Comcast).

The problem is much broader than AllVid, in other words - it's a complete failure by the FCC and Congress to ensure an open market for TV and HSI.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

slowbiscuit said:


> Same ole same ole - we don't want AllVid because we don't want to be dumb pipes providing IP streams to any and all comers with open standards. We want to control the user experience from end to end with our own apps and boxes so we can monetize every bit of it.
> 
> TV Everywhere is their standard answer to AllVid, but it's just another means to collude as an industry to force people to keep subscribing to their local cableCo instead of providing a true internet-based TV system to allow people to subscribe to whatever they want. They want nothing to do with an open IP access standard, they want to provide their own apps on these platforms and claim that's good enough, Tivo et al be damned.
> 
> ...


Extremely well said... I think it would be extremely beneficial if you would post those thoughts to the record on 97-80... I will do the same. Its the only mechanism we have to at least make it known that we don't agree with the NCTA's assertion. I'm contemplating whether or not there are some other channels the consumer can use to make it clear that the NCTA is wrong.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

I would if I had faith that the revolving door FCC and the paid-for Congress would care, but I don't. Sorry, the ship has sailed and the corporatocracy rules. The only solution at this point is anti-trust lawsuits and enforcement.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

slowbiscuit said:


> I would if I had faith that the revolving door FCC and the paid-for Congress would care, but I don't. Sorry, the ship has sailed and the corporatocracy rules. The only solution at this point is anti-trust lawsuits and enforcement.


Fair enough... you are probably right but the effort to raise the flag at least means the minority that believes in consumer choice wasn't silent during this battle.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

Like Dan203, I used to have more cablecards than I do now (twice as many).

I had 6 of them in six 2-tuner TiVo boxes.

Now I have 3 of them in three 4-tuner Roamios. One of these isn't used for anything except as an extra to swap-in, should one fail, or otherwise not be able to perform its duties (which has happened once already).

I did not have the luxury of just keeping the extra cablecards (hoarding them, just in case....), because Cox (in my market) auto-nukes any card that has been inactive (has not received and successfully processed authorization) for more than 3 months. Once that happens, they must be replaced (although I'm sure the replacements might have been nuked, then re-programmed to work again). I can not force them to just un-nuke an existing card I had laying around, unused (although once on my account, I still pay ALL associated fees, per card, until returned).

So, looking at my house as a single household in a study of one household, my cablecard use (active cards) is halved. I worried about the bigger picture, and how the other households moving to more tuners per device, requiring less cablecards, and the resulting "numbers" or "statistics" would be manipulated by those who want them gone. Cox (and other MSOs) are also moving to 6-tuner devices, making the numbers even more dire, if not used in the *CORRECT* context(s).

Cox has been reclaiming their own 2-tuner non-integrated boxes (with cablecards), then scrapping them, and using those cards for retail "bring your own box" customers. If you ask for their standard 2-tuner STB or DVR now, you get an older model, with integrated security (no cablecard).

I pushed them on this practice, and they said the integration ban and FCC mandates did not say they had to scrap, or not re-issue, *EXISTING* equipment, only that they couldn't make new equipment without non-integrated cablecards inside. They say they are free to keep using the old ones, and to refurbish them for re-issue. It's a great way for them to not have to purchase any more "new" cablecards, while decreasing the numbers/stats for currently deployed and active cablecards.

It's all very dismal and distressing. If the numbers were used in the true and proper context(s), it would show cablecard as being a success (despite all the headaches and issues with using them). It's also a success story in energy efficiency. Using less of full-featured DVRs with a cablecard in each and every one means energy savings. Less cards and more tuners (and more extender devices) equals less energy use, period. I'd bet money on that none of the "pros" get presented, only the "cons" (which there are less of, when things are presented in proper contexts)...


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## humbb (Jan 27, 2014)

From Powell's letter: "For example, Comcast and TiVo implemented a solution known as "Cardio" to deliver VOD services to retail TiVo CableCARD devices ..."

So what my heart doctor really meant when he said "you really need to get more cardio into your daily routine" is that I need to sit on the couch watching more Comcast VOD on my TiVo?


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

humbb said:


> From Powell's letter: "For example, Comcast and TiVo implemented a solution known as "Cardio" to deliver VOD services to retail TiVo CableCARD devices ..."
> 
> So what my heart doctor really meant when he said "you really need to get more cardio into your daily routine" is that I need to sit on the couch watching more Comcast VOD on my TiVo?


Exactly, and don't forget to also do those 12 oz. curls, especially during sporting events!


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

slowbiscuit said:


> I would if I had faith that the revolving door FCC and the paid-for Congress would care, but I don't. Sorry, the ship has sailed and the corporatocracy rules. The only solution at this point is anti-trust lawsuits and enforcement.


Anti-trust isn't relevant. Cable companies have been locking consumers in for decades without ever having to run afoul of anti-trust laws.

You talk about enforcement but what we're facing is a loss of any hope for enforcement. The NCTA is pushing their faux "consumer choice" as an excuse for the FCC to gut the regulations that have at least forced things to the point where just about any cable customer can buy a CableCard device and expect that it will work even if it's a hassle. That wasn't the case not so many years ago.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

nrc said:


> Anti-trust isn't relevant. Cable companies have been locking consumers in for decades without ever having to run afoul of anti-trust laws.
> 
> You talk about enforcement but what we're facing is a loss of any hope for enforcement. The NCTA is pushing their faux "consumer choice" as an excuse for the FCC to gut the regulations that have at least forced things to the point where just about any cable customer can buy a CableCard device and expect that it will work even if it's a hassle. That wasn't the case not so many years ago.


TiVos and some PCs are the only new stuff that can takes cable cards, I don't think any new HDTVs have cable slots, if anybody knows of anything else that takes cable cards, that is new and for retail sale, please let me know.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

lessd said:


> TiVos and some PCs are the only new stuff that can takes cable cards, I don't think any new HDTVs have cable slots, if anybody knows of anything else that takes cable cards, that is new and for retail sale, please let me know.


The new Samsung Smart Media Player:

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-GX-SM...54&sr=8-1&keywords=Samsung+smart+media+player


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

lessd said:


> TiVos and some PCs are the only new stuff that can takes cable cards, I don't think any new HDTVs have cable slots, if anybody knows of anything else that takes cable cards, that is new and for retail sale, please let me know.


Quite a few. Some were just showcased at CES.

There's now retail "cable boxes" without DVR.

There's now retail "DVR boxes" besides TiVo.

There's now hybrid devices that are meant to be all-in-one, with Blu-Ray player, smart apps for your TV, streaming capabilities, and more (DVR, and beyond).

There's HDHomeRun type devices now supporting one or more cards to provide insane tuner numbers, and some are also meant to be network accessible in a manner that makes them behave like any device on your network has the cablecard inside it.

zatznotfunny.com has many blogs on these (out-of-nowhere) devices.
engadget.com also
gigaom.com as well

It's struck all the bloggers, reviewers, and commentators as strange that many well-known name brand CE manufacturers, as well as newcomers, have suddenly embraced a technology implementation whose imminent death seemed very certain.

I breath a sigh of relief with every new device I see that supports or requires cablecard.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

I think CableCards will be with us for at least another few years. The cable companies have spent lots of money to put CableCards in 40+ million cable boxes. At the snails pace with which cable companies seem to upgrade their equipment, at least some of those are likely to be in service for years to come. And as long as a cable company still has some of their boxes with CableCards still in service, the FCC will probably make them still support retail CableCards.

Has there been any movement lately on AllVid? I really hope that if/when CableCards are phased out that the FCC can force a new standard on the entire pay TV sector that will support retail devices across cable, telco, and satellite video services.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

AllVid was stillborn, the FCC never gave a s**t after the initial proposal.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

HarperVision said:


> The new Samsung Smart Media Player:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-GX-SM...54&sr=8-1&keywords=Samsung+smart+media+player


This looks like a Roku and cable co box replacement in a single box, if you install cable cards, but will it do *OD* and* PPV *??


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

lessd said:


> but will it do *OD* and* PPV *??


It MIGHT do PPV if your cable company will still let you order PPV by phone the old fashioned way. It will not do on-demand unless your cable company has a Samsung app for this device that allows it.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

tarheelblue32 said:


> It MIGHT do PPV if your cable company will still let you order PPV by phone the old fashioned way. It will not do on-demand unless your cable company has a Samsung app for this device that allows it.


So far TWC is the only one I know of that has an app for it.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

sbiller said:


> Extremely well said... I think it would be extremely beneficial if you would post those thoughts to the record on 97-80... I will do the same. Its the only mechanism we have to at least make it known that we don't agree with the NCTA's assertion. I'm contemplating whether or not there are some other channels the consumer can use to make it clear that the NCTA is wrong.


Sam, why don't you post a White House petition. I know you could word it elegantly and state what would be best for us as consumer and then all three million TiVo user could sign it. That would get everyone's attention.  Go for it, I dare you.  If you do it, I will sign it.


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