# Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. "What They Become" (12/9/2014, Spoilers)



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Well, this episode was chock full of comic book mythos... Daisy Johnson, Calvin Zabo, Terrigen crystals, you name it... I'm sure those who are more versed in the Marvel comics are probably more excited about this than I am, but it's still cool that there's a clear direction the show is going in, that we're not just spinning our wheels.

Sad to see Tripp bite it, but it was a very Whedon death in that it was a heroic death that served a storytelling purpose.

Perhaps those more familiar with the comics might have an insight into what Rayna might be becoming.


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

I, too, would like to know what Raina becomes.


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## caslu (Jun 24, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> Perhaps those more familiar with the comics might have an insight into what Rayna might be becoming.


My first thought was Tigra, but she's not an Inhuman... not in the comics, anyway.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Daisy Johnson / Quake wasn't either though.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Skye's father's name is Kal? Is his last name El? 

Tripp's death was kinda stupid. He didn't actually accomplish anything by kicking the crystals.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Daisy Johnson was a mutant, so by making her an Inhuman, I guess they're poaching the character from Fox...


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Daisy Johnson was a mutant, so by making her an Inhuman, I guess they're poaching the character from Fox...


They've kind of back pedaled on her being a mutant in the 616 Universe as well.

Now her powers are due to genetic shifts caused by Zabo's Hyde formula.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Jed and Maurissa gave an interview to TV Line that might help to explain how the TV storylines relate (and don't) to the comics:

WARNING POSSIBLE SPOILERS IN THE FOLLOWING LINK


Spoiler



http://tvline.com/2014/12/09/agents-of-shield-winter-finale-skye-inhuman-daisy-johnson/


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

And now we have to wait a few months to find out what Raina becomes, and who the man is with no eyes, who can see just fine.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I thought it was a great episode. Can't believe we have to wait until March for more episodes though  Agent Carter does not seem like a good replacement....I'm not even sure I want to watch that at all. 

I wish they didn't kill off Tripp. He was the best new character they added.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

busyba said:


> Skye's father's name is Kal? Is his last name El?


Cal, not Kal (in this instance.)


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

I am SO looking forward to Agent Carter. 

And I suppose we can confirm Inhumans now. That debate should be settled, at least.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Ereth said:


> And I suppose we can confirm Inhumans now. That debate should be settled, at least.


Well, I suppose that someone could claim that since the word "Inhuman" has not been uttered on the show, we don't know for a fact that they are Inhumans.

However, since the producers are on record as saying that Skye is an Inhuman, I'd say the matter is settled.

I have to admit, I didn't even get Daisy Johnson until the end of the episode because she's not a character I've read much of at all.
Same with Mr. Hyde (I admit to having had to Google Calvin Zabo).

However, now knowing that Dad is Hyde, it does explain a few things about him and gives Kyle MacLaughlin's performances another layer.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

I don't know Daisy Johnson at all, and for some reason whenever the name Mr Hyde comes up, I can only picture a Gene Colan image, so I'm assuming he fought Daredevil during Colans run, or that I'm confusing him with someone else. It's entirely possible I'm imagining the Owl instead now that I think about it.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Ereth said:


> I don't know Daisy Johnson at all, and for some reason whenever the name Mr Hyde comes up, I can only picture a Gene Colan image, so I'm assuming he fought Daredevil during Colans run, or that I'm confusing him with someone else. It's entirely possible I'm imagining the Owl instead now that I think about it.


I only know both characters in relation to the Avengers books.
(There was one sequence where Captain America took on Hyde because Hyde savagely beat a bound Jarvis and Cap did a masterful job in goading Hyde into losing control.)

Outside of Miller's and O'Neil's runs, I haven't read much Daredevil either (the character doesn't interest me that much), but I have read about Hornhead's first confrontation with Hyde (I don't know if that was drawn by Colon or not).

I was reading a blog post about the whole "Mike Murdock" deception and during that stint, Matt was apparently trying to track down Mr. Hyde.

Matt decided to lure out Hyde by dressing as Thor and swinging around town in that garb.

However, the real Thor dropped by and told Matt to "Yeh verily, knock off thy impersonation" and DD went on to beat Hyde.


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## Drewster (Oct 26, 2000)

Daisy is completely new to me, and I'm only vaguely aware of Mr. Hyde. With this and doing Inhumans by way of the city, it strikes me that they're taking a remarkably deep catalogue approach. I like it! 

I'm not sure about Inhumans in general though; I like that this has been a non-super show. (It's also one thing I love about Gotham.)


-Andrew


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

JYoung said:


> I only know both characters in relation to the Avengers books.
> (There was one sequence where Captain America took on Hyde because Hyde savagely beat a bound Jarvis and Cap did a masterful job in goading Hyde into losing control.)
> 
> Outside of Miller's and O'Neil's runs, I haven't read much Daredevil either (the character doesn't interest me that much), but I have read about Hornhead's first confrontation with Hyde (I don't know if that was drawn by Colon or not).
> ...


I had Daredevil back to #2. Was only needing #1 for a complete run up to about the mid-1980s. Wish I still had it. Selling off that collection, and in a hurry no less, is one of my great regrets.

(It probably won't surprise you to know that I hold the Colan years as my favorites, surpassing even Miller).

And I googled some images, and yeah, Colan drew the Mr Hyde image that was in my head. Nobody else can draw like that.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I've been having a hard time following most of what is being said in any of these threads. Having never really followed comic books or even a lot of the movies, all I'm going by is the TV show. They've done a pretty good job of filling in everything we need to know but things like these names are way over my head and certainly not anything we've been shown on the show.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DancnDude said:


> I've been having a hard time following most of what is being said in any of these threads. Having never really followed comic books or even a lot of the movies, all I'm going by is the TV show. They've done a pretty good job of filling in everything we need to know but things like these names are way over my head and certainly not anything we've been shown on the show.


But the cool thing is, they ARE things we've been shown on the show. They're just very good at dropping them in so the comic book geeks will know what they're talking about, but the rest of you (cough) won't know that you're missing anything. I mean, they DID say that she is really Daisy and her father is Cal. That means nothing to you, but tons to us. Perfect way to fan-service the geeks without alienating the rest. And when the comic-book aspects of Daisy and Cal become significant, they'll be introduced into the show...and we'll be tickled that we knew all along, and you won't be upset that you had to read the comics to understand the show...because you didn't.


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

As a non-comic book guy, I am totally enjoying this series. I do feel occasionally I am missing some fundamental references, but usually filled-in by these threads.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

markp99 said:


> As a non-comic book guy, I am totally enjoying this series. I do feel occasionally I am missing some fundamental references, but usually filled-in by these threads.


Sometimes I wish there was no comic discussion, I want to watch the show for itself. Some of the speculation based on the comics feels a little spoilery (although it is not, strictly speaking).

I feel the same about Gotham and the Flash.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I always think I mostly understand each episode but then I come to these threads and get totally lost because I wasn't a comic book kid.

Somewhat related, last week this book caught my eye while in a bookstore. I'm up to about page 72 out of 192 and other than the basic super heroes that they've already made movies about, I've never heard of about 90% of these guys. Marvel has one serious universe!

The Avengers: The Ultimate Guide to Earth's Mightiest Heroes!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> Somewhat related, last week this book caught my eye while in a bookstore. I'm up to about page 72 out of 192 and other than the basic super heroes that they've already made movies about, I've never heard of about 90% of these guys. Marvel has one serious universe!


%@^& piles up over 50+ years! (75 if you start with the Timely/Atlas period with Captain America, Submariner, Human Torch, etc.)


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## SteveD (Oct 22, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> I always think I mostly understand each episode but then I come to these threads and get totally lost because I wasn't a comic book kid.
> 
> Somewhat related, last week this book caught my eye while in a bookstore. I'm up to about page 72 out of 192 and other than the basic super heroes that they've already made movies about, I've never heard of about 90% of these guys. Marvel has one serious universe!
> 
> The Avengers: The Ultimate Guide to Earth's Mightiest Heroes!


So am I really too old for this stuff?
*Age Range: 7 - 18 years*

I decided to check out the other Avengers book, Marvel The Avengers: The Ultimate Character Guide.
*Age Range: 8 - 17 years
Grade Level: 3 - 12*
Nope, still too old.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Those are the bottom age limits. A really mature 7 or a really immature 18 and up.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

eddyj said:


> Sometimes I wish there was no comic discussion, I want to watch the show for itself. Some of the speculation based on the comics feels a little spoilery (although it is not, strictly speaking).
> 
> I feel the same about Gotham and the Flash.


No, you're right, by the rules of the forum, anything that isn't contained within the episode itself is, by rule, a spoiler. I'll admit that even I broke that rule when I mentioned the comic book references I did in the first post. It's why I spoiler-tagged the interview link later on in the thread, even though the only real spoiler was clarification of what Skye was.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Given it is all speculation (there is no assurance that anything in the comics will be canon for the series), I don't consider them true spoilers. But they do make me feel left out.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Are they going to have the writing skill to handle having a superhuman agent? I am not so sure. It's pretty difficult to navigate that. I can only assume that she will not have the fine-grained control she eventually had in the comics. If that ever happens then there will be a lot of Deus Ex Machina in the scripts, or a lot of us yelling at our screens.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

The interesting story possibilities are about how do these ordinary people now deal with having an extraordinary one among them. It's not like Thor where we start with the super, we've had a year and a half of knowing Skye. How will she change, and how will her relationships change, now that she's Daisy?


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Ereth said:


> The interesting story possibilities are about how do these ordinary people now deal with having an extraordinary one among them. It's not like Thor where we start with the super, we've had a year and a half of knowing Skye. How will she change, and how will her relationships change, now that she's Daisy?


That was one of the issues both Raina and Cal brought up.
For example, I can see Hunter distrusting "Daisy" now with FitzSimmonds arguing, "No, she's still our friend Skye".

At least her powers should be fairly easy for a TV show to do effects wise.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

This explains quite a bit but of course, there are potential spoilers, since it talks about what happened in the comics (and may happen on TV):

http://screenrant.com/agents-shield-skye-origin-powers-daisy-quake/


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

cheesesteak said:


> I always think I mostly understand each episode but then I come to these threads and get totally lost because I wasn't a comic book kid.


This. I don't care at all--I love spoilers--but it's kind of weird that I can't even hint at anything I read in the books in the GOT thread, but here you guys are telling all kinds of stuff. But then, it's mostly names which don't mean anything to me anyway.....


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

I know nothing about this part of the Marvel Universe, but I thought the ending was really well done.

I think the show can work on multiple levels. I don't think you have to know what you guys know to enjoy it.

-smak-


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> This. I don't care at all--I love spoilers--but it's kind of weird that I can't even hint at anything I read in the books in the GOT thread, but here you guys are telling all kinds of stuff. But then, it's mostly names which don't mean anything to me anyway.....


The thing about Game of Thrones is that the producers still have to follow the general storylines of the books.

In Agents of SHIELD, the producers can draw on the comics for source material but can change things as they see fit.

In fact in the comics, Daisy Johnson isn't an Inhuman while Skye/Daisy is.

Also, most of the time we're speculating based on what we know is in the comics but I won't divulge big spoilers in the open.

For example, a big deal was made in the Guardians of the Galaxy movie about the mystery of who Peter Quill's father is.

Anyone who's read the Guardians of the Galaxy comics knows who his father is there but I still won't post that information unspoiled.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

JYoung said:


> Anyone who's read the Guardians of the Galaxy comics knows who his father is there but I still won't post that information unspoiled.


In particular, they have said that absolutely his father in the comics is NOT his father in the movies, though, so this is an area where the comics readers have no advantage, other than to eliminate one possibility.

Unless, of course, they are lying when they say that.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

That guy at the end with no eyes reminded me of another character that popped into my head the other week, and I can't identify. Maybe Rob, JY, or Ereth can remember it for me. It was an older, skinny super villain, dressed in (green?) rags with a purple blindfold. He had long white hair, and his powers were either supernatural or cosmic (not science based.) He may have been an alien. He may have used a staff/walking stick. For some reason I think he was in an Avengers or maybe Defenders issue. Ring any bells?


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

I think you asked that recently, the question sounds familiar. I have an image in my head of a character like you describe, but I can't think of his name at all. There's a part of me that says he worked for Thanos, but I'm not really sure. I didn't answer previously because I can almost see it, but I have no idea who he was either. Sorry.


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

I'm surprise there has been no speculations on who Raina will become.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Ereth said:


> I think you asked that recently, the question sounds familiar. I have an image in my head of a character like you describe, but I can't think of his name at all. There's a part of me that says he worked for Thanos, but I'm not really sure. I didn't answer previously because I can almost see it, but I have no idea who he was either. Sorry.


Yes, I did ask before, and its still bugging me.


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## awsnyde (May 11, 2007)

DancnDude said:


> Agent Carter does not seem like a good replacement....I'm not even sure I want to watch that at all.


Wow really? I'd check it out just for Busty, erm, I mean Haley Atwell (who, even if she wasn't busty would still be incredibly beautiful). Granted, I wouldn't keep watching beyond an ep or two if it turns out not to be good, but her character has been entertaining enough in Captain America and what little we've seen of her on this show.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

awsnyde said:


> Wow really? I'd check it out just for Busty, erm, I mean Haley Atwell (who, even if she wasn't busty would still be incredibly beautiful). Granted, I wouldn't keep watching beyond an ep or two if it turns out not to be good, but her character has been entertaining enough in Captain America and what little we've seen of her on this show.


I don't see myself watching Agent Carter either, unless there really isn't anything else going on to hold my interest.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Did either of you watch the Agent Carter one-shot? It was really well done.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

Ereth said:


> Did either of you watch the Agent Carter one-shot? It was really well done.


Not usually a fan of period pieces but also thought the Agent Carter one shot was really well done and Hayley Atwell is worth watching so the season pass is most definitely set.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Ereth said:


> Did either of you watch the Agent Carter one-shot? It was really well done.


There was an Agent Carter one shot? So no I didn't see it. I guess my (lack of) excitement of it is based on the few bits of Agent Carter being in Agents of SHIELD and thinking that they didn't add much to the story. And the time period interests me much less than the modern day story.

I'll probably record it and give it a chance because if it ends up that they should have titled it "Origins of SHIELD" instead of "Agent Carter" then I might be glad I gave it a try. It's just that I'm not terribly excited for it and I'd rather just have more SHIELD.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

It was on the Iron Man 3 disc.

I didn't find it on Youtube except in pieces, but this appears to be the complete thing. I highly recommend it.

[media]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1viter_marvel-one-shot-agent-carter-2013_shortfilms[/media]


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

Ereth said:


> Did either of you watch the Agent Carter one-shot? It was really well done.


Also not a fan of period pieces - I find them boring.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

JYoung said:


> Well, I suppose that someone could claim that since the word "Inhuman" has not been uttered on the show, we don't know for a fact that they are Inhumans.
> 
> However, since the producers are on record as saying that Skye is an Inhuman, I'd say the matter is settled.


Wow, ok, went to go skim Inhuman on Wikipedia.. way too much detail..

Originally from *this* discussion, I was thinking Inhuman was something like meta-humans from Flash (TV show) or **** superiors from The Tomorrow People..


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

In political terms, Marvel has for the past couple of years been positioning Inhumans to replace mutants, since they lost the movie rights to the X-Men through their %#^&y deal with Fox. Any new characters in X-Men comics can't be mutants, and have to be introduced somewhere else first. The Inhumans have been vastly expanded from a small, outcast clique to a significant portion of humanity. They're obviously being launched in the Marvel cinematic universe through SHIELD, and are getting their own movie in a couple of years.

The question remains if they can pull it off. The X-Men have been awfully popular and important...for many years the center of the Marvel world, although over the past decade the Avengers have come to rival them. And that happened organically...trying to recreate an organic development on purpose almost never works. Nevertheless, that's what they're trying to do...and this is a big step in the process.


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## Drewster (Oct 26, 2000)

Oh, interesting. I wonder if that's also why The Fantastic Four has been similarly misused and retired, in order to devalue the movie rights.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Drewster said:


> Oh, interesting. I wonder if that's also why The Fantastic Four has been similarly fisues and retired, in order to devalue the movie rights.


That's the rumor, although I think it's more a matter of bad sales. They've tried a number of things with the FF over the past few years, including expanding the line of books, but nothing has really taken off sales-wise. So I think what's really going on with the FF is like what they did with Thor a few years ago when it was seriously underperforming...take it off the shelf while they work on something big for the comeback (in Thor's case, a very successful J. Michael Straczynski re-launch that has spawned an entire new line of books).

Bear in mind, even with the "new IP" embargo there are still about a gajillion X-Men books. And half a gajillion Spider-Man books. Their goal isn't to "devalue the movie rights"; they just don't want to spend their energy creating new properties that can be exploited by Fox or Sony. So they're happy to sell as many X-books or Spidey books as they can; they just won't be introducing any new characters in those books that they think might strike it big some day. And the problem with the FF isn't that they're producing valuable IP for Fox; it's that nobody's buying the books.


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## Drewster (Oct 26, 2000)

I corrected a very embarrassing typo in my post.
Mea culpa!


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Drewster said:


> Oh, interesting. I wonder if that's also why The Fantastic Four has been similarly misused and retired, in order to devalue the movie rights.





Rob Helmerichs said:


> That's the rumor, although I think it's more a matter of bad sales. They've tried a number of things with the FF over the past few years, including expanding the line of books, but nothing has really taken off sales-wise. So I think what's really going on with the FF is like what they did with Thor a few years ago when it was seriously underperforming...take it off the shelf while they work on something big for the comeback (in Thor's case, a very successful J. Michael Straczynski re-launch that has spawned an entire new line of books).
> 
> Bear in mind, even with the "new IP" embargo there are still about a gajillion X-Men books. And half a gajillion Spider-Man books. Their goal isn't to "devalue the movie rights"; they just don't want to spend their energy creating new properties that can be exploited by Fox or Sony. So they're happy to sell as many X-books or Spidey books as they can; they just won't be introducing any new characters in those books that they think might strike it big some day. And the problem with the FF isn't that they're producing valuable IP for Fox; it's that nobody's buying the books.


I'm thinking that the truth may be somewhere between these two.

I was unaware that Fantastic Four was facing the chopping block but some cursory Googling indicates while sales for this flagship book are low, I saw a claim that FF was the 8th most sold Marvel book.

I also haven't ruled out that there may be a publicity stunt involved and the book will be back after the movie.

It's too bad though as I'm liking James Robinson's run so far.
But then I'm the weirdo who was enthusiastic about Steve Englehart's run and meh about John Byrne's.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

JYoung said:


> I'm thinking that the truth may be somewhere between these two.
> 
> I was unaware that Fantastic Four was facing the chopping block but some cursory Googling indicates while sales for this flagship book are low, I saw a claim that FF was the 8th most sold Marvel book.
> 
> ...


The rumors of it's demise started shortly after Robinson's version started. I think it is somewhere in between as well. They'd rather not publish a book that another company might profit off of new IP, but it it was making enough profit like X-Men, they would keep it going. I do think the characters will all be around in Avengers or other books while Fantastic Four is on hiatus.

There creating plenty of new Spider-people so I think the Sony deal may be different than the Fox one. Maybe it doesn't include new IP? Although a Superior Spider-Man movie might be fun.

Bringing this back around to Agents of Shield, I was once under the impression that Inhumans would've went with the FF rights along with Silver Surfer and possibly even Black Panther. It's good to see that isn't the case.

Edit: I think Fox was under that impression as well. 14 years ago. http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/08/when-marvel-tried-to-make-an-inhumans-movie-14-years-ago/


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## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

Was during their initial conversation was Skye's dad humming http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisy_Bell? I thought that's what it was and then when her name turned out to be daisy......


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## ehusen (Jan 7, 2002)

kettledrum said:


> Was during their initial conversation was Skye's dad humming http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisy_Bell? I thought that's what it was and then when her name turned out to be daisy......


I would say yes. My thought was "Isn't that the song Hal sings in 2001?"


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

kettledrum said:


> Was during their initial conversation was Skye's dad humming http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisy_Bell? I thought that's what it was and then when her name turned out to be daisy......


Yes, it was. It was actually in the last week's episode as well, during Skye's dream sequence at the beginning; Maurissa and Jed included it as a hint to see if anyone would pick up on it.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Did they ever make clear exactly how Whitehall managed to get young? Yes, we know that he took apart Skye's mother's body, but what exactly did he do?


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

There was a scene where Whitehall injected something extracted from Skye's mother -- blood, DNA, whatever -- into his own body.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Graymalkin said:


> There was a scene where Whitehall injected something extracted from Skye's mother -- blood, DNA, whatever -- into his own body.


I thought he transplanted her organs and blood into himself.


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

Her blood, certainly -- but her organs, too?! Ew. I probably blocked that part out.


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## TheSlyBear (Dec 26, 2002)

He ate her heart! 

Seriously, I don't think we yet know exactly what was involved except that she had to be dissected to achieve it.

Nasty, Whitehall. I really hope he's not dead so that Muad'Dib, er Zabo, has an opportunity to do it in a more spectacular fashion.


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

TheSlyBear said:


> He ate her heart!
> 
> Seriously, I don't think we yet know exactly what was involved except that she had to be dissected to achieve it.
> 
> Nasty, Whitehall. I really hope he's not dead so that Muad'Dib, er Zabo, has an opportunity to do it in a more spectacular fashion.


You mean Agent Dale Cooper, right? Or Trey MacDougal?


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

Graymalkin said:


> You mean Agent Dale Cooper, right? Or Trey MacDougal?


Or maybe Orson Hodge?


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Adrianne Palicki promoted to series regular.

Well all right!


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Good news. The show needs her.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

JYoung said:


> Adrianne Palicki promoted to series regular.
> 
> Well all right!


AWESOME decision!


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