# Pictures of TiVo Series 3 from Booth (courtesy Megazone)



## TiVoPhish (Mar 12, 2003)

I reposted some of Megazones photos and tidbits on my own server to help with bandwidth

*Click here to see Tivo Series 3 Photos* -- courtesy of Megazone

His blog with detailed info is here:

http://www.tivolovers.com/252572.html


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## TiVoPhish (Mar 12, 2003)

More photos were just added by Megazone (and I also added them)


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## jcricket (Sep 11, 2002)

d00d (had to geek out). This rocks. I will most definitely be ditching DirecTV for this product if it's available at a reasonable price. I'd much rather have a box that has full Tivo functionality than a hobbled one from DirecTV or Comcast (I have the HR10-250 now).

I mostly like that it's CableCard 2 ready, even though the cable co's aren't shipping those yet. I'd love to reduce the number of cables going into the back of my DVR.

Does anyone know what channels require a cable card on Comcast these days? I'm presuming HBO, Showtime, etc. IIRC, 2-way features (PPV? Interactive channels) require the CC 2 cards (which don't exist yet).


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## jcblack (Jul 26, 2001)

Need price. Need price. ...oh, and free transfer of lifetime sub from older unit.


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

Pardon my ignorance, but what's the "SATA"? The black box with the blue circle on it?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

gastrof said:


> Pardon my ignorance, but what's the "SATA"? The black box with the blue circle on it?


It's a proprietary method of external hard drive connection. Stands for Serial ATA.

From Wikpedia --
..."an evolution of the Parallel ATA physical storage interface. Serial ATA is a serial link -- a single cable with a minimum of four wires creates a point-to-point connection between devices. Transfer rates for Serial ATA begin at 150MBps. One of the main design advantages of Serial ATA is that the thinner serial cables facilitate more efficient airflow inside a form factor and also allow for smaller chassis designs."


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Megazone told me there is no price info yet.

As far as the channels, CableCARD allows you to get your companies digital lineup. In my area, channels like IFC and HBO are digital only... and ofcourse your HD cable channels are probably also encrypted and require the CableCARD.

PPV/VOD requires _bidirectional_ CC support... not expected to arrive until 2007 at the earliest. The 2.0 that this TiVo will support is _multistream_ meaning you'd only need one CC for simultanious access to two channels. Until those are released you can use two CC 1.0 cards. Personally, I'm going to use one antenna and get my HD over-the-air... two streams are supported this way.

The black box is a SATA hard drive, for external storage. SATA is the protocol, and from what little I know, it's very fast.


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## Brewer4 (May 6, 2004)

How long have they been talking about Cable Card Tivos? What the guess that this unit will actually be available to the public THIS year.

Dont get me wrong, I am rooting for them but this unit should have been released first half this year with definitive time lines and prices.


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## jcricket (Sep 11, 2002)

> As far as the channels, CableCARD allows you to get your companies digital lineup. In my area, channels like IFC and HBO are digital only... and ofcourse your HD cable channels are probably also encrypted and require the CableCARD.


No biggie. Turns out in my area Comcast doesn't charge for cablecards (any more than they already extract from you for the digital cable service). It does seem that some of the CC 2.0 features would be unnecessary with this cable-card Tivo. Tivo's got its own program guide, and on-demand is less necessary since the Tivo is a DVR (I know On-Demand isn't the same as time-shifting). Others, like PPV, seem slightly annoying to live without. Hopefully the second generation of cable cards will come out soon, though. I can't wait to see what Tivo does with that...

And pardon my ignorance, but do you still plug the RG-59 or RG-6 cable into the "cable in" input in addition to sliding the CC into the slot? That's what it appears like.


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## lachacg (Jan 11, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> It's a proprietary method of external hard drive connection. Stands for Serial ATA.


It isn't proprietary. SATA is an open standard. PCWorld reviews some new eSATA (external SATA) drives this month. Roughly $1 per gig.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

So I sure hope/expect that we'll just be able to plug in random external SATA drive and the Tivo will automagically format it.

Like everyone else, I want pricing! Even though I just have regular analog cable (for now), this is something that would get me to upgrade from my S1s at the right price, since obviously it has great future prospects.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

davezatz said:


> As far as the channels, CableCARD allows you to get your companies digital lineup. In my area, channels like IFC and HBO are digital only... and ofcourse your HD cable channels are probably also encrypted and require the CableCARD.


I don't know whether this falls into the 'must carry' regulation at all, but others have said that many cable companies DO send the regular network channels in the clear (and megazone said on http://www.tivolovers.com/252572.html that this new tivo will tune/record those). I don't know if that includes ALL sub-channels, but at least it includes some.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Not meaning to whine, but I see that the remote doesn't have the 1/2 switch. Yes, I want two of these! (I said long ago that though I'm a cable user, 2 DirecTivos would satisfy the vast majority of show conflicts I ever have -- and of course this means I want two of these new ones!!)


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## d_anders (Oct 12, 2000)

*It's a proprietary method of external hard drive connection. Stands for Serial ATA.*

Absolutely. This is very sweet. They're totally considering future, easy, non-hack, non-warranty killing, disk/recording expansion.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

mattack said:


> I don't know whether this falls into the 'must carry' regulation at all, but others have said that many cable companies DO send the regular network channels in the clear (and megazone said on http://www.tivolovers.com/252572.html that this new tivo will tune/record those). I don't know if that includes ALL sub-channels, but at least it includes some.


I tried, but failed, to distinguish network channels versus cable channels in that post. For example, Comcast sends NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX, PBS, and the WB in the clear via QAM. I actually use this signal to feed my HDTV most of the time and I just have a regular analog cable package. I don't know if it falls under 'must carry' either and I sort of assume it will vanish at any time as I have no faith in Comcast.


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## TiVoPhish (Mar 12, 2003)

From the *CES Rumor thread*... by ack_thbbft



ack_thbbft said:


> All specs are subject to change, of course, as it still under development, and has a "few glitches to work out" (a slip said by one of the reps). Cost was also "slipped" as between *$500-$800, and most likely out last half of '06.*


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

lachacg said:


> It isn't proprietary. SATA is an open standard....


Wrong choice of words...sorry.


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## emeril2k1 (Sep 9, 2004)

Where do I sign up for the first one?


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## lordargent (Nov 12, 2002)

jcricket said:


> I mostly like that it's CableCard 2 ready, even though the cable co's aren't shipping those yet.


My cable company (Cox Southern CA) has been shipping them for at least six months or so. (that's when I noticed they had them on their site).

The monthly fee was $2 per card (vs $4 per cable box). I don't know if they were duals or not though. Either way, if I have to get 2 of them, it's still just the same as my current box rental.

In other news, when can I buy one? I've had to make due with cable and a standalone tivo, due to the giant mountain that's in my southern sky.


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## rog (Jan 12, 2005)

Man, these new boxes look sweet! I love the lcd on the front panel, and don't get me started on the external sata port.


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## NoCleverUsername (Jan 29, 2005)

mattack said:


> Not meaning to whine, but I see that the remote doesn't have the 1/2 switch. Yes, I want two of these! (I said long ago that though I'm a cable user, 2 DirecTivos would satisfy the vast majority of show conflicts I ever have -- and of course this means I want two of these new ones!!)


From the photos, there doesn't appear to be anything special about this remote other than the two-tone style and tweaked button shapes/layout. I don't see any reason why this new TiVo wouldn't respond to an older style remote, like the current TiVos do.

Edit: whoops, just go to the paragraph in the blog about the aspect button.


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## TiVoPhish (Mar 12, 2003)

New photos posted!!


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## SC0TLANDF0REVER (Dec 9, 2001)

davezatz said:


> I tried, but failed, to distinguish network channels versus cable channels in that post. For example, *Comcast sends NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX, PBS, and the WB in the clear via QAM. I actually use this signal to feed my HDTV most of the time and I just have a regular analog cable package*. I don't know if it falls under 'must carry' either and I sort of assume it will vanish at any time as I have no faith in Comcast.


Coolness.

I often wondered if Comcast let the HD through on the 'must carry' reg.

I guess when the Series 3 comes out, I'll be able to get the HD in the bedroom for the no additional price of an S3 TiVo and the CABLECard.


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## quarkman97 (Nov 18, 2002)

So if that rumor is correct, a Series 3 plus lifetime subscription will run me $800-$1000.

Wow. Didn't know it'd be that expensive...

How long did it take Tivo to let Series 1 people transfer their lifetime subs to Series 2 machines?

I know the DirecTivo was $1000, but man this is going to be hard to get the WAF. Not to mention an HDTV to put it on.

Better start applying for a second job sooner than later.


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## jb007 (Mar 17, 2001)

emeril2k1 said:


> Where do I sign up for the first one?


Call Robert at Value Electronics


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## oldskoolboarder (Jul 8, 2003)

OK, now I want one... Screw D* when this comes out. I can go to Comcast for the CC and I get a bunch of stations via OTA.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

TiVoPhish said:


> More photos were just added by Megazone (and I also added them)


You've got 29 of the 42 total - got room for the other 13? 

Thanks for mirroring!


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

Brewer4 said:


> How long have they been talking about Cable Card Tivos? What the guess that this unit will actually be available to the public THIS year.


The odds are very good, I'd put them close to 100%.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

jcricket said:


> And pardon my ignorance, but do you still plug the RG-59 or RG-6 cable into the "cable in" input in addition to sliding the CC into the slot? That's what it appears like.


Yes, the CableCARD is just a decryption device, the physical input is the coax connector.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

mattack said:


> So I sure hope/expect that we'll just be able to plug in random external SATA drive and the Tivo will automagically format it..


I asked about that. Right now it is To Be Determined. TiVos desire is to just be able to specify the minimum specs for a drive and allow you to buy anyone that meets them. But they have to see how the SATA drive market fleshes out and how real world drives work. If they have to they may need to make a list of 'approved' drives.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

rog said:


> Man, these new boxes look sweet! I love the lcd on the front panel, and don't get me started on the external sata port.


The front panel is an OLED actually.


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## TiVoPhish (Mar 12, 2003)

megazone said:


> You've got 29 of the 42 total - got room for the other 13?
> 
> Thanks for mirroring!


No problem 

I only see 26 at the /Photos/CES2006/TiVo/ link... where are the others?


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

jcricket said:


> And pardon my ignorance, but do you still plug the RG-59 or RG-6 cable into the "cable in" input in addition to sliding the CC into the slot? That's what it appears like.


Yes. The cable goes from the wall to the "cable in" port. That will give you the analog and unscrambled digital channels. The cable card will unscramble the encrypted signals and map the digital channels to the whatever the cable company uses.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

TiVoPhish said:


> No problem
> 
> I only see 26 at the /Photos/CES2006/TiVo/ link... where are the others?


You're probably looking at one of the mirrors.

The originals are in http://www.megazone.org/Photos/CES2006/TiVo/RAW/ with resized (33%) versions now in http://www.megazone.org/Photos/CES2006/TiVo/


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

How come the only "press" I've seen was was Megazone, and nothing from Tivo itself? Why did Tivo cancel it's presentation?


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

I don't know how it was missed - it was right there in their booth, clear as day. And I saw 'official' press talking to folks in the booth. The wheels turn slowly.

I was contacted by a national publication with a request to use one of my photos - I said OK.


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## MadGreek (Sep 27, 2003)

Wow!! That's all I can say about the Series 3...I have four TVs each set up with a TiVo Series 2, though two are HiDef so I'm getting two Series 3s when they come out -- cost not a factor ;-)


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

megazone has ftp-ed his photos over for mirroring... i've resized and posted them on their own pages, no ads or anything just pics! 

i've kept them failry large at 800px wide, so it may take awhile to view, but it's worth it 

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/PSN/tivoces.htm

spread the word about these various photo locations so his site survives the onslaught (front page Digg, engadget, gizmodo, etc)


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## mec1991 (Nov 5, 2004)

Awesome!!!    

This is what I have been waiting for. Thank you, TiVo!



Now, how long before some loser starts a thread saying this will kill TiVo?


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## tivoknucklehead (Dec 12, 2002)

the holy grail ! lets hope it ships in '06


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

mec1991 said:


> Now, how long before some loser starts a thread saying this will kill TiVo?


I already started the ball rolling.
This series 3 has NO NIGHTLIGHT on it. How could they change that  
loosing features just to get other features is so going to kill TiVo off.

NOTE- this is a future parody of the sure to be coming no composite or component inputs, what was TiVo thinking threads


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

There are a bunch of mirror sites listed here now: http://www.tivolovers.com/253205.html


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## nhaigh (Jul 16, 2001)

megazone said:


> There are a bunch of mirror sites listed here now: http://www.tivolovers.com/253205.html


Reading this page and I'm really curious about what it is you can't/won't tell us. I understand why but it doesnt stop us speculating.

In my eternal optimisim I'm going to hope for an earlier release of the Series Three, say February or March. My reasons are as follows:

1) I asked TiVo Sales a couple of days ago and was told Q1 2006.
2) Several people have posted that TiVo have told them February.
3) All the people who bought a Series Two at Chistmas have 30 days to cancel so releasing or commiting to a release date in January would be just plain dumb.

Let the 30 days go by and anounce the box is up for sale. Ship a s**t load of them over the next six months to early adopters and current DirecTV customers many of whom will happily pay $500-$800 for it and many who will but multiple units.

Then let the Comcast TiVo come out Q3 for everyone else and not have them compete for the high value early adopter market space.


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## Aflat (Aug 29, 2005)

lordargent said:


> My cable company (Cox Southern CA) has been shipping them for at least six months or so. (that's when I noticed they had them on their site).
> 
> The monthly fee was $2 per card (vs $4 per cable box). I don't know if they were duals or not though. Either way, if I have to get 2 of them, it's still just the same as my current box rental.
> 
> In other news, when can I buy one? I've had to make due with cable and a standalone tivo, due to the giant mountain that's in my southern sky.


Your cable company, and any other cable company that is using cable cards are using Cable Card 1, not Cable Card 2. The standards for cable card 2 haven't been finished yet, so they can't make them fully standardized yet.


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## J4yDubs (Jul 3, 2002)

Thanks for keeping us updated MZ. Hope you got some sleep.

John


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## DixonJDixon (Feb 14, 2004)

I want one of these yesterday. I can't wait to tell Rupert where to stick it.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

megazone said:


> The front panel is an OLED actually.


I love this new machine. I can't wait to buy one. But Please, consider another color for the display. Orange, YUCK. I have Red, Green, Yellow, and Blue already.

Please allow for dimming and disableing the display.

Did I say I love the features!!!

Especially the VC1 and MPEG 4 decode. I think that the future of movies include day and date downloading new movies in HD. TiVo could be a big winner here. They should also consider a movie only device for this segment. Joe Kane is working on this technology with Samsung (I think).

-- Rich


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## netposer (Jul 23, 2004)

I wonder why you would need an external SATA drive? Is the connecter Firewire or USB 2? I would assume you could use any external HDD as long as it supported the connector.

I use SATA drives in external enclosures that have both USB 2 and Firewire connections and I have EIDE drive configured the same way.

Anyone have more details on this?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

RichB said:


> I love this new machine. I can't wait to buy one. But Please, consider another color for the display. Orange, YUCK. I have Red, Green, Yellow, and Blue already....


 I agree!!



RichB said:


> Please allow for dimming and disableing the display...


I agree with dimming, but why would you want to disable? I currently have the Sony DHG-HDD250 with a white display that shows the program name you recorded/playback or the channel call sign you are currently watching. I wouldn't want to do without that.


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## petew (Jul 31, 2003)

netposer said:


> I wonder why you would need an external SATA drive? Is the connecter Firewire or USB 2? I would assume you could use any external HDD as long as it supported the connector.
> 
> I use SATA drives in external enclosures that have both USB 2 and Firewire connections and I have EIDE drive configured the same way.
> 
> Anyone have more details on this?


It's eSATA, apparently up to 6 times faster than USB 2.0 or Firewire. Take a look at http://www.sata-io.org/esata.asp


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## Tenacious Lee (Mar 25, 2002)

quarkman97 said:


> How long did it take Tivo to let Series 1 people transfer their lifetime subs to Series 2 machines?


...we can do that?! How?

Much as I am interested in a Series 3, I think I'd be perfectly content with a Series 2.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> I agree!!
> 
> I agree with dimming, but why would you want to disable? I currently have the Sony DHG-HDD250 with a white display that shows the program name you recorded/playback or the channel call sign you are currently watching. I wouldn't want to do without that.


I guess it is where you are coming from. Since I have TiVo 1 and 2's I am used to using the menu to see if the right thing is being recorded. It might be nice to display the channel and show being recorded. I really do not need display of what is being played.

When given the choice between orange and black, I might choose black 

-- Rich


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## nhaigh (Jul 16, 2001)

Bierboy said:


> I agree!!
> 
> I agree with dimming, but why would you want to disable? I currently have the Sony DHG-HDD250 with a white display that shows the program name you recorded/playback or the channel call sign you are currently watching. I wouldn't want to do without that.


I'd like to be able to turn it off on the one in the bedroom. As it sits in prime viewing position with the TV it may be distracting. Small issue but a nice to have.


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## nhaigh (Jul 16, 2001)

Bierboy said:


> I agree!!
> 
> I agree with dimming, but why would you want to disable? I currently have the Sony DHG-HDD250 with a white display that shows the program name you recorded/playback or the channel call sign you are currently watching. I wouldn't want to do without that.


I'd like to be able to turn it off on the one in the bedroom. As it sits in prime viewing position with the TV it may be distracting. Small issue but a nice to have.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

Tenacious Lee said:


> ...we can do that?! How?


When first released, TiVo offered to allow you to transer your lifetime membership to a newly purched TiVo 2. It would be great if they offered that again. I might buy two 

-- Rich


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

RichB said:


> I guess it is where you are coming from. Since I have TiVo 1 and 2's I am used to using the menu to see if the right thing is being recorded. It might be nice to display the channel and show being recorded. I really do not need display of what is being played.
> 
> When given the choice between orange and black, I might choose black
> 
> -- Rich


I understand where you're coming from, too. And the subsequent post about it being a possible distraction (if in direct view, like right below or above the TV screen) is also legit. I didn't think I'd would like the readout as much as I do, but my Sony is on a rack next to my 51-inch Hitachi RPTV, so it's not a distraction.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

netposer said:


> I wonder why you would need an external SATA drive? Is the connecter Firewire or USB 2? I would assume you could use any external HDD as long as it supported the connector.
> 
> I use SATA drives in external enclosures that have both USB 2 and Firewire connections and I have EIDE drive configured the same way.
> 
> Anyone have more details on this?


The connector is SATA, straight from the drive itself to the back of the DVR, with no more than a cable adapter and power supply. There is no logic adapter in the enclosure as you would have for a USB2.0/Firewire drive.


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## Kanyon71 (Feb 13, 2003)

Now i'm sure I will be blasted for this on this board, BUT here goes anyway. I think the new box look and the new remote are both ugly. They don't fit with anything else in my entertainment center, nor am I sure why you would need the OLED display on the front of this box, unless this display is huge and really bright you wont be able to see it from across the room and if it is either of those it will be nothing but a distraction. Why could they not just leave well enough alone with one of their previous designs? The remote is horrible looking and if you look at the pictures that one is all scratched up (downfall of the shiny looking hard surface?) and the contrasting colors don't look good to me (yes I hate the directv remote also). Outside of this I like the new features I just wish this would all work with my DirecTV, if it did I would so have one.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

Tenacious Lee said:


> ...we can do that?! How?
> 
> Much as I am interested in a Series 3, I think I'd be perfectly content with a Series 2.


You used to be able to, and might still be able to.

When Series 2 was released, they offered a one time transfer of Lifetime from any Series 1 to a Series 2, for a limited time, which is long passed.

Also, if you bought Lifetime before Jan 2000, you have the one-time right to transfer that to another DVR. That offer still stands.


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## Tenacious Lee (Mar 25, 2002)

RichB said:


> When first released, TiVo offered to allow you to transer your lifetime membership to a newly purched TiVo 2. It would be great if they offered that again. I might buy two
> 
> -- Rich


Hmm.. Wonder if that's still possible.

/me goes off to check what available S2 hacks there are...


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

jcricket said:


> And pardon my ignorance, but do you still plug the RG-59 or RG-6 cable into the "cable in" input in addition to sliding the CC into the slot? That's what it appears like.


Yes. The CC card is simply an access device. The tuners themself are part of the fixed STB hardware, and you connect the cablecard to that.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Kanyon71 said:


> Now i'm sure I will be blasted for this on this board, BUT here goes anyway. I think the new box look and the new remote are both ugly. They don't fit with anything else in my entertainment center, nor am I sure why you would need the OLED display on the front of this box, unless this display is huge and really bright you wont be able to see it from across the room and if it is either of those it will be nothing but a distraction. Why could they not just leave well enough alone with one of their previous designs? The remote is horrible looking and if you look at the pictures that one is all scratched up (downfall of the shiny looking hard surface?) and the contrasting colors don't look good to me (yes I hate the directv remote also). Outside of this I like the new features I just wish this would all work with my DirecTV, if it did I would so have one.


I agree the look of the box is nothing revolutionary. It's VERY similar to the Sony DHG units, and orange lighting is ugly (though, I would think, less distracting). But, as I have posted elsewhere, once you have the display listing the program/channel you're watching, you may appreciate it more. That's what happened to me after I got the Sony. And, it's very readable from 12 feet away (and not exceptionally huge).

I agree, the remote is horrid. But I use a universal (Harmony SST-659).

The bottom line, however, is if the box does what it's supposed to do, and does it well. Given TiVo's track record, I would say it will .


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## DonRoeber (Nov 30, 2003)

My Yamaha receiver has an orange on black display, and it's never bothered me. It's not as distracting as the white on black display of my Sony DVD player.

Still, I'm wondering what the Tivo is going to display on it's front panel. I've never felt that my series 2 was missing anything.


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## Kanyon71 (Feb 13, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> I agree the look of the box is nothing revolutionary. It's VERY similar to the Sony DHG units, and orange lighting is ugly (though, I would think, less distracting). But, as I have posted elsewhere, once you have the display listing the program/channel you're watching, you may appreciate it more. That's what happened to me after I got the Sony. And, it's very readable from 12 feet away (and not exceptionally huge).
> 
> I agree, the remote is horrid. But I use a universal (Harmony SST-659).
> 
> The bottom line, however, is if the box does what it's supposed to do, and does it well. Given TiVo's track record, I would say it will .


I wish they would add RF remote then I can just hide the box 

I am not a big fan of displays like that. I am watching the TV so I know what i'm watching and if I don't then I can hit a button to bring up the list.


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## Kanyon71 (Feb 13, 2003)

DonRoeber said:


> My Yamaha receiver has an orange on black display, and it's never bothered me. It's not as distracting as the white on black display of my Sony DVD player.
> 
> Still, I'm wondering what the Tivo is going to display on it's front panel. I've never felt that my series 2 was missing anything.


I agree, give me a light to tell me it's recording and a light to tell me it's on and all is good. I don't need all these extra things lighting up my room, especially seeing as it's in my bedroom. Maybe they are going the route where you need to suspend the Tivo every night?


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## Firegeek (Aug 22, 2005)

The half-filled box on the right side of the OLED display could be a guage of "free" disk space or an indicator of how far along you are in a show. Either one would be awesome.


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## Saturn (Apr 10, 2001)

DROOOOOOOOL. Or maybe I should say FINALLY. If I could transfer my lifetime sub from my Series 1, I would freakin' pre-order one.


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## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

Sigh ... no firewire.

Otherwise ... perfect.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

dt_dc said:


> Sigh ... no firewire.
> 
> Otherwise ... perfect.


maybe when the DVD recorder models come out


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## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> maybe when the DVD recorder models come out


Note ... I don't want DV Link Firewire ...

I want DTV Link Firewire ...


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## RocketMan (Mar 16, 2002)

To have Gigabit Ethernet.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

dt_dc said:


> Note ... I don't want DV Link Firewire ...
> 
> I want DTV Link Firewire ...


what's the diff? IS DTV Link Firewire some other name for Firewire 800? (like where DV Link Firewire, [aka iLink in Sony terms] is Firewire 400)


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## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> what's the diff? IS DTV Link Firewire some other name for Firewire 800? (like where DV Link Firewire, [aka iLink in Sony terms] is Firewire 400)


No ... it has to do with what can be sent (and understood) via Firewire.

The DV Firewire connections found on DVD burners just understand DV ... the format digital camcorders understand and send.

DTV Link though ... understands MPEG2 ...


----------



## quarkman97 (Nov 18, 2002)

RichB said:


> When first released, TiVo offered to allow you to transer your lifetime membership to a newly purched TiVo 2. It would be great if they offered that again. I might buy two
> 
> -- Rich


Right there with ya, Rich!


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

dt_dc said:


> No ... it has to do with what can be sent (and understood) via Firewire.
> 
> The DV Firewire connections found on DVD burners just understand DV ... the format digital camcorders understand and send.
> 
> DTV Link though ... understands MPEG2 ...


is it really FIREWIRE that understands? Really, I think you mean it's what the devices themselves understand. That is, there is more to it than JSUT the Firewire interface.

Isn't that like maybe saying "ethernet only understands MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 and won't understand, say, MPEG-6 (if that ever comes out)"


----------



## quarkman97 (Nov 18, 2002)

RocketMan said:


> To have Gigabit Ethernet.


Even with Gigabit Ethernet, you still have to go through the handshaking between the Tivo and the PC.

That process is what chokes the connection. Even with 100BT right now the speed isn't fully utilized.

I think my logic is correct, right?


----------



## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

RocketMan said:


> To have Gigabit Ethernet.


It does have an Ehternet port, Gigabit would be nice.
I have noticed serious slowdowns from Gigabit to 100MBS devices when the 100MB device is receiving. Sending is fine.

-- Rich


----------



## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

quarkman97 said:
 

> Even with Gigabit Ethernet, you still have to go through the handshaking between the Tivo and the PC.
> 
> That process is what chokes the connection. Even with 100BT right now the speed isn't fully utilized.
> 
> I think my logic is correct, right?


I can play HD TS streams over my gigibit network without any problem. I did not have problems with my 100MB network either.

-- Rich


----------



## cheridave (Mar 2, 2004)

Can I use this for OTA only or do I have to have cable?

Dave


----------



## quarkman97 (Nov 18, 2002)

RichB said:


> I can play HD TS streams over my gigibit network without any problem. I did not have problems with my 100MB network either.
> 
> -- Rich


I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding you or if you are misunderstanding me. 

What I'm talking about is that even with 100 BT right now, the process from which the Tivo encodes/decodes the Tivo DRM out from the Tivo is what slows is down. It slows it down so much so that the stream we are currently getting with TivoToGo doesn't come close to utlizing all of the 100 BT bandwidth. So wishing for Gigabit is kind of useless if we can't get all of 100 BT right now, right?

If Tivo could speed up the handshake, I'd be all for Gigabit. Heck, I have the hardware in place right now, ready to go.

Can someone else clarify what I'm trying to say or should I just stuff a sock in it?


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

cheridave said:


> Can I use this for OTA only or do I have to have cable?
> 
> Dave


Either, or both...even at the same time :up: :up: :up:


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

cheridave said:


> Can I use this for OTA only or do I have to have cable?
> 
> Dave


it will do OTA only. it basically has 6 tuners to cover all the options and you choose by connections and Cable card or not which two tuners become active.


----------



## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> is it really FIREWIRE that understands? Really, I think you mean it's what the devices themselves understand. That is, there is more to it than JSUT the Firewire interface.


Hence the "via" part of my comment ...

"what can be sent (and understood) _via_ Firewire"

Yes ... it's the devices on either end doing the actual sending and/or understanding.

I guess the CEA does a better job of explainging what I meant by "DTV Link" ...

http://www.ce.org/shared_files/resources/74linklogosheet2.pdf


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> it will do OTA only. it basically has 6 tuners to cover all the options and you choose by connections and Cable card or not which two tuners become active.


Huh? What am I missing?


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Bierboy said:


> Huh? What am I missing?


Nothing. You are both right. I think you go tripped up by the "only" part. he didn't say it only does OTA, rather, if you want, you can use it only for OTA.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

jsmeeker said:


> Nothing. You are both right. I think you go tripped up by the "only" part. he didn't say it only does OTA, rather, if you want, you can use it only for OTA.


Ah...I got it! I just re-read it...it's all about emphasis! Thanks!


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

jsmeeker said:


> Nothing. You are both right. I think you go tripped up by the "only" part. he didn't say it only does OTA, rather, if you want, you can use it only for OTA.


Ah...I got it! I just re-read it...it's all about emphasis. Thanks! (...and to think I'm an editor and proofreader...scary!)


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Bierboy said:


> Huh? What am I missing?


he asked "will it do OTA only" so I was answering that but the answer on its own looks bad but is just out of context. 

now as to your answer. I am not sure about mix and match. I would hope TiVo would still have a guided setup that says active tuner 1 does this from this inout and active tuner 2 does this from this input BUt I have not seen anywhere that definitively said you can do cable on one tuner and OTA antenna on the other. All that means though is I have not seen it, not that it is not that way.

edit --
ah man - I just smeeked Jsmeeker , who actually unsmeeked Bierboy and me as I was smeeking Jsmeeker


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

ZeoTiVo said:


> he asked "will it do OTA only" so I was answering that but the answer on its own looks bad but is just out of context.
> 
> now as to your answer. I am not sure about mix and match. I would hope TiVo would still have a guided setup that says tuner 1 does this from this inout and tuner 2 does this from this input BUt I have not seen anywhere that definitively said you can do cable on one tuner and OTA antenna on the other. All that means though is I have not seen it, not that it is not that way.
> 
> ...


You understand there are SIX tuners in this thing, right?


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

jsmeeker said:


> You understand there are SIX tuners in this thing, right?


yes. I edited my post to say active tuner 1 and active tuner 2 the inputs dictate which of the three different types of tuners are actually used


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> he asked "will it do OTA only" so I was answering that but the answer on its own looks bad but is just out of context.
> 
> now as to your answer. I am not sure about mix and match. I would hope TiVo would still have a guided setup that says active tuner 1 does this from this inout and active tuner 2 does this from this input BUt I have not seen anywhere that definitively said you can do cable on one tuner and OTA antenna on the other. All that means though is I have not seen it, not that it is not that way.
> 
> ...


It's smeek-city


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Just an FYI... Ars Technica has rewritten all of megazone's notes and seemed to have helped themselves to a pic without once mentioning his name. It bugs me so I posted on their forum... if it bugs you too, here's where the article lives:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060106-5915.html

Normally I'd figure it was an oversite but yesterday they rewrote a Wall Street Journal article on Google video as their own. I know a lot of folks borrow and reference stuff in the blogosphere, but it's common courtesy to at least give a link and shout-out back.


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

NoCleverUsername said:


> From the photos, there doesn't appear to be anything special about this remote other than the two-tone style and tweaked button shapes/layout. I don't see any reason why this new TiVo wouldn't respond to an older style remote, like the current TiVos do.
> 
> Edit: whoops, just go to the paragraph in the blog about the aspect button.


window+ aspect button if i recall...


----------



## cheridave (Mar 2, 2004)

Thank you for your responses about the "OTA only".

This gives me something to think about. Good thing we have more than just a couple of months.

I too am thinking about "going on my own vs. keeping DirecTV".

Dave


----------



## stoli412 (Nov 22, 2003)

Ok, I have a question. Megazone's blog says "The unit has two CableCARD slots on the back and it will support Multi-Stream (CableCARD 2.0) or Single-Stream (CableCARD 1.0) cards."

I thought CableCARD 2.0 refers to the two-way interactive CableCARD spec that allows for VOD and PPV but has yet to be finalized, and multi-stream CableCARDs (version 1.1? 1.5?) are still only one-way but can decode more than one channel at a time.

So, has the one-way multi-stream CableCARD spec been approved yet? Are the cards available from the cable company yet? If not, anyone know when? Also, when the full two-way CableCARD 2.0 spec comes out, will the S3 TiVo be able to support them (maybe with a firmware/software upgrade), or will it be a completely different hardware interface and thus incompatible?

I ask because I use VOD a lot, and I'd hate to buy this TiVo and not have the ability (at least in the future) to use VOD with it.


----------



## Kanyon71 (Feb 13, 2003)

RocketMan said:


> To have Gigabit Ethernet.


Did someone say it's not Gig E? Most of the newer chipsets just have it on them, I would think they would have gone with something thats cheap on the mass market. If someone already verified that it's only 100 sorry  didn't wade through every post yet lol


----------



## waityn4jc (Jan 1, 2006)

classicsat said:


> You used to be able to, and might still be able to.
> When Series 2 was released, they offered a one time transfer of Lifetime from any Series 1 to a Series 2, for a limited time, which is long passed.
> Also, if you bought Lifetime before Jan 2000, you have the one-time right to transfer that to another DVR. That offer still stands.


I really don't care if the allow me to transfer my lifetime or not. Any TIVO box with a lifetime always sells for more than $300 on eBay. You can easily get your $300 back that way. Then buy the S3 and you have the $300 for a new lifetime.

If TIVO does offer a possibility of transfering a subscription, it will only be when the S3 first comes out when the prices are inflated. I understand some people could care less about the price and will buy a S3 no matter what, but I personally have to be wise in my $$$ spending. The S3 released in 06 for $500-$800, by 2007 the cost will have dropped by at least $200. I'll wait until then.

To add my two cents, I love the display on the front of the machine, but agree it should be any color but orange.


----------



## J4yDubs (Jul 3, 2002)

davezatz said:


> Just an FYI... Ars Technica has rewritten all of megazone's notes and seemed to have helped themselves to a pic without once mentioning his name. It bugs me so I posted on their forum... if it bugs you too, here's where the article lives:
> http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060106-5915.html


Ah, so that was you.  Don't expect them to change it though. They are pretty defensive lately. Not sure why.

John


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

stoli412 said:


> Ok, I have a question. Megazone's blog says "The unit has two CableCARD slots on the back and it will support Multi-Stream (CableCARD 2.0) or Single-Stream (CableCARD 1.0) cards."
> 
> I thought CableCARD 2.0 refers to the two-way interactive CableCARD spec that allows for VOD and PPV but has yet to be finalized, and multi-stream CableCARDs (version 1.1? 1.5?) are still only one-way but can decode more than one channel at a time.
> 
> So, has the one-way multi-stream CableCARD spec been approved yet? Are the cards available from the cable company yet? If not, anyone know when?


 I have heard it said in the 1.5 way, no idea if it is all approved or not but I read in the forum it was. anyway a multituner card will work in the TiVo if that is what the cable co gives you. 
it is looking like the 2.0 is not so much multistream as it is bidirectional. and I have learned today that the biderectional has nothing to do with what is on the card but in the host. search DT_DC for his posts, he has a few tha texplain this better



> Also, when the full two-way CableCARD 2.0 spec comes out, will the S3 TiVo be able to support them (maybe with a firmware/software upgrade), or will it be a completely different hardware interface and thus incompatible?
> 
> I ask because I use VOD a lot, and I'd hate to buy this TiVo and not have the ability (at least in the future) to use VOD with it.


the above answer means that TiVo is not saying anything about bidirectional though and it is simply an unknown, even by TiVo for sure, if biderectional will be supported. It might but no one knows for now.


----------



## Tivo Basic Mike (Jan 26, 2005)

What do you guys guess this thing will cost?


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

J4yDubs said:


> Ah, so that was you.  Don't expect them to change it though. They are pretty defensive lately. Not sure why.


I've been a long-time reader and either this hasn't been happening or I've just never noticed it. The writer did respond in comments, but it's obvious to anyone who's read megazone's thoughs that they reiterating them point by point... down to the ridges on the back of the new remote. Same with the Wall Street Journal, point by point. It's one thing to rip off a random blogger, but it takes some cajones to scrape something widely read like the WSJ. By the way, that link to Reuters wasn't in the story when I read it yesterday.

Anyhow, I don't want a battle with Ars it just rubbed me the wrong way given megazone's thorough analysis after spending the whole day with TiVo and then writing all night (he answered questions all over the web and went to bed like 5AM this morning - not that I condone such behavior.)

So in conclusion I'm also sleep deprived and have an itchy trigger finger. Ars is off my Bloglines list... no skin off their back I'm sure. I'm just venting. Please excuse me and return to your regularly scheduled thread.

PS mega will probably be posting more photos today and answering more questions (I have a few out to him as well) - it'd be cool if we could compile all the info into some sort of FAQ and post it as a sticky. Who's going to coordinate that?


----------



## cptodd (Jun 30, 2002)

I love this thing. I must have one even though I am not sure how I will afford it. Question: I have come to REALLLLY enjoy my TiVo with DVD burner. I know this is HD and so I was wondering how a DVD burner could be integrated into one of these units? Will it have to be one of those new blueray burners (or HD-DVD)? Or can they install a regular burner (say a dual layer) and down convert HD programing to fit on that disk. Is that hard to do? OR now that this is an HD product will the content creators kick a fit and not allow HD programing to be sent do disk?


----------



## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

If you add an external drive, does it web itself to the primary drive's file system the way internal expansion drives do? I.e. once you hook it up you can't unhook it?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

vman41 said:


> If you add an external drive, does it web itself to the primary drive's file system the way internal expansion drives do? I.e. once you hook it up you can't unhook it?


That's my understanding (from what I've read). When you record with this new unit, it can (but not always) scatter "pieces" of it on both the internal and external drives. Then, if you disconnect the external drive, my understanding is that, any recordings that are "scattered" would be lost.


----------



## J4yDubs (Jul 3, 2002)

davezatz said:


> I've been a long-time reader and either this hasn't been happening or I've just never noticed it. The writer did respond in comments, but it's obvious to anyone who's read megazone's thoughs that they reiterating them point by point... down to the ridges on the back of the new remote. Same with the Wall Street Journal, point by point. It's one thing to rip off a random blogger, but it takes some cajones to scrape something widely read like the WSJ. By the way, that link to Reuters wasn't in the story when I read it yesterday.


I've been a long time reader as well and it wasn't always this way. It seems to have changed after the redesign. I think they might have gotten to big for their britches and it's gone to their heads. Slashdot is the same way. Oh well.

John


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## DocNo (Oct 10, 2001)

RichB said:


> I love this new machine. I can't wait to buy one. But Please, consider another color for the display. Orange, YUCK. I have Red, Green, Yellow, and Blue already.


Depending on the OLED used, they could let you choose your color - how cool would that be?



> Please allow for dimming and disableing the display.


I'd say that's a safe bet - you can dim the nightlight (or turn it off) on the existing S2's



> Did I say I love the features!!!


Yup, it's the box Tivo needs to release to remain relevant.


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## DocNo (Oct 10, 2001)

Firegeek said:


> The half-filled box on the right side of the OLED display could be a guage of "free" disk space or an indicator of how far along you are in a show. Either one would be awesome.


If you look closely, it says 1080i - it's the resolution indicator.

not counting on a free space indicator


----------



## Justin Thyme (Mar 29, 2005)

davezatz said:


> I've been a long-time reader and either this hasn't been happening or I've just never noticed it. The writer did respond in comments, but it's obvious to anyone who's read megazone's thoughs that they reiterating them point by point... down to the ridges on the back of the new remote. Same with the Wall Street Journal, point by point. ...


Which do you prefer-

1) a half baked report from a WSJ reporter who was last week was writing about jail time for Adelphia execs? Whose story is composed of whatever he can dredge up from the notes he could pull together before deadline, notes written in a hungover haze, based on questions based on a thoroughly confused understanding of the technology that doesn't interest him in the least?

2) a plagiarization from Megazone.

MZ is cool about it, so I'll pick 2, everything. At least Tivo will get much better coverage that way.

Without the news releases. A post blog revolution bit of marketing cleverness. (Whether you intended it this way or not- kudos to you too bob).


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

waityn4jc said:


> I really don't care if the allow me to transfer my lifetime or not. Any TIVO box with a lifetime always sells for more than $300 on eBay.


(I thought that the lifetime transfer -- not the pre-2000 one -- was only a limited time special emailed to people on the mailing list.. but I'm probably misremembering.)

Anyway, I was thinking about this yesterday. I think the $300 value of standalones with lifetime (at least S1 or S2) may be going away, or at least lowering a LOT.

Think about it. Unless you're using a satellite box via IR/serial connector (and if you are, and you're using DirecTV, why the heck don't you have a DirecTivo), based upon the specs we know so far, this Series 3 is a *complete superset* of what we have now.

That, plus the now-set-in-stone analog broadcast shutdown, seem to me to mean that the "common knowledge value" of a Tivo with lifetime subscription may not remain true much longer.

Don't get me wrong, that's not an absolutely horrible thing. I think this new hardware is very intriguing, and it will almost certainly get me to upgrade, even without getting any carryover value from my two S1s with lifetime.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Bierboy said:


> That's my understanding (from what I've read). When you record with this new unit, it can (but not always) scatter "pieces" of it on both the internal and external drives. Then, if you disconnect the external drive, my understanding is that, any recordings that are "scattered" would be lost.


Where have you read this?

I sure hope this is NOT the case. With SATA being intended for removable storage, I'm willing to have to have to manually mount/unmount an external volume, so that one doesn't accidentally remove a drive while it's being recorded to.. but I sure hope it's not just able to deal with ONE drive. (Yes, I would expect to eventually have multiple separate external drives..)

I could even imagine them having the user to transfer recordings from the internal drive to the external drive.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

mattack said:


> (I thought that the lifetime transfer -- not the pre-2000 one -- was only a limited time special emailed to people on the mailing list.. but I'm probably misremembering.)


It was made available to anyone with lifetime on a Series 1 purchasing a Series 2. Many here hope that the same offer will be made for people who buys a Series 3.


----------



## Gregor (Feb 18, 2002)

I'd love to be able to transfer that S1 lifetime to a new S3.


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Gregor said:


> I'd love to be able to transfer that S1 lifetime to a new S3.


I was thinking the same thing.


----------



## Fl_Gulfer (May 27, 2005)

will these work with our D* HD Boxes?


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Fl_Gulfer said:


> will these work with our D* HD Boxes?


no


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

mattack said:


> Where have you read this?
> 
> I sure hope this is NOT the case. With SATA being intended for removable storage, I'm willing to have to have to manually mount/unmount an external volume, so that one doesn't accidentally remove a drive while it's being recorded to.. but I sure hope it's not just able to deal with ONE drive. (Yes, I would expect to eventually have multiple separate external drives..)
> 
> I could even imagine them having the user to transfer recordings from the internal drive to the external drive.


I read it on Megazones tivolovers.com site myself. The drive is seen as just more storage space and the bits are laid down as needed with no regard to keeping them on one drive. No idea how much ot will happen that a show goes over two drives. but you may still be able to use multiple drives now just with no control over what goes where. I think what you propose on a UI to control what show goes where is an excellent future direction but one taking too much time right now vs getting the box on the street


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I read it on Megazones tivolovers.com site myself. The drive is seen as just more storage space and the bits are laid down as needed with no regard to keeping them on one drive. No idea how much ot will happen that a show goes over two drives. but you may still be able to use multiple drives now just with no control over what goes where. I think what you propose on a UI to control what show goes where is an excellent future direction but one taking too much time right now vs getting the box on the street


Thanks, Zeo. Too early in the morning for _*me *_to try and remember where I'd read it!


----------



## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

RocketMan said:


> To have Gigabit Ethernet.


No point.

1. The unit isn't going to push GigE even if it had it.
2. Remember that TiVo isn't selling to ubergeeks, but to the general market. Most people have 100baseT at best - and in conversation with TiVoPony at CES he said they're seeing more people using WiFi in the US now.


----------



## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

nhaigh said:


> Reading this page and I'm really curious about what it is you can't/won't tell us. I understand why but it doesnt stop us speculating.
> 
> In my eternal optimisim I'm going to hope for an earlier release of the Series Three, say February or March.


What I was teasing about has nothing to do with the S3.

And sorry, the S3 will not be out early. It is still in early testing, seriously, it will not be out until mid-year at the earliest. Don't bother hoping.


----------



## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

dt_dc said:


> Sigh ... no firewire.
> 
> Otherwise ... perfect.


From my travels around CES I can report - FireWire is dead. Most of the new A/V systems - DVD, Blu-ray, HD-DVD, etc - have HDMI and most don't have FireWire.


----------



## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

cheridave said:


> Can I use this for OTA only or do I have to have cable?


You could use it with an antenna only.


----------



## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

davezatz said:


> The writer did respond in comments, but it's obvious to anyone who's read megazone's thoughs that they reiterating them point by point... down to the ridges on the back of the new remote.


Yeah - it ticked me off. My post in the comments about how these things happen was meant to be sarcastic. If they really *do* have a 'reporter' at CES, I think he missed the Series3 (like everyone else) and he 'reported' on it by reading my post and paraphrasing it. It was WAY too similar.

And that was my photo 'sent in by a reader'.

Whatever. At least TiVo got some press.


----------



## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

Firegeek said:


> The half-filled box on the right side of the OLED display could be a guage of "free" disk space or an indicator of how far along you are in a show. Either one would be awesome.


Nope, that's the 480i/480p/720p/1080i indidcator.


----------



## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

megazone said:


> Yeah - it ticked me off. My post in the comments about how these things happen was meant to be sarcastic. If they really *do* have a 'reporter' at CES, I think he missed the Series3 (like everyone else) and he 'reported' on it by reading my post and paraphrasing it. It was WAY too similar.
> 
> And that was my photo 'sent in by a reader'.


Mega, I appreciate all the work you've done getting the word out to all of us that can't go to CES and see the goodness for ourselves. But, slagging another random website for doing the same work is just pretty f*@#ed up. Here's a hint. You're not the only person at CES. Given the same set of facts, any reporting on them is going to be similar. And since there appears to only be one SA3 box in the world, any pictures of them are bound to look the same. Take a look at their front page and their extensive CES coverage and you don't really think that they have people there?

Get over yourself, dude.


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## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

megazone said:


> From my travels around CES I can report - FireWire is dead. Most of the new A/V systems - DVD, Blu-ray, HD-DVD, etc - have HDMI and most don't have FireWire.


Yes ... I know. However, there are several displays with Firewire and there are a couple next-gen DVD players with it.

What will be more interesting will be the next-gen DVD recorders. Firewire isn't nearly as meaningful on a player (HDMI will do just fine) as on a recorder ...


----------



## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Can someone explain what we're seeing in these pics?

http://www.something-fishy.com/photography/TiVoS3/mce1
http://www.something-fishy.com/photography/TiVoS3/mce2

Is that the beta of TiVo Desktop 2.3? Or some future-version that's not available (even in public beta) yet? Or is it a Series3-only thing?

I'm confused why it's called "mce" (does that have something to do with XP Media Center Edition?).


----------



## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

cwoody222 said:


> Can someone explain what we're seeing in these pics?
> 
> http://www.something-fishy.com/photography/TiVoS3/mce1
> http://www.something-fishy.com/photography/TiVoS3/mce2
> ...


I heard somewhere that the Series 3 will not support MRV or TTG. That makes it even more confusing.

Anyone know for sure about that?

tk


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

cwoody222 said:


> Can someone explain what we're seeing in these pics?
> 
> I'm confused why it's called "mce" (does that have something to do with XP Media Center Edition?).


It's a neat little add-on for Windows Media Center Edition, but offers nothing ground breaking. Basically using MCE's framework TiVo has put together a new PC front-end for TiVoToGo that you can operate via remote from your couch. It doesn't offer anything new -- just think of it as a TiVo Desktop replacement for MCE computers.


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

DocNo said:


> I'd say that's a safe bet - you can dim the nightlight (or turn it off) on the existing S2's


How?


----------



## Fl_Gulfer (May 27, 2005)

What good are they if you can't use them for Satellite,


----------



## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

They spend time on an add-on to MCE but still haven't finished their Mac version?!?! I can't imagine there are that many people with a TiVo AND MCE since they do many similar things anyway. Plus you can use Galleon to control transfers from your TV already.

Seems to be a wasted effort to me. But whatever.

Will that add-on... or the Series 3... be able to handle any additional file formats other than .tivo, highly-specific MPEG-2 or MPEG-4 (which will be what the Series 3 will record HD in, right?)? ie: did they announce any support for AVI or any other type of playback?


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## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

cwoody222 said:


> They spend time on an add-on to MCE but still haven't finished their Mac version?!?! I can't imagine there are that many people with a TiVo AND MCE since they do many similar things anyway. Plus you can use Galleon to control transfers from your TV already.


My name is Todd and I use both TiVo and MCE.

{Hi Todd!}

I know several folks (I know, anecdotal at best) that use MCE and TiVo. TiVo is unbeatable for recording, and MCE is better at playback. So I use each for the task it excels at.

tk


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

cwoody222 said:


> They spend time on an add-on to MCE but still haven't finished their Mac version?!?! I can't imagine there are that many people with a TiVo AND MCE since they do many similar things anyway. Plus you can use Galleon to control transfers from your TV already. Seems to be a wasted effort to me. But whatever.
> 
> Will that add-on... or the Series 3... be able to handle any additional file formats other than .tivo, highly-specific MPEG-2 or MPEG-4 (which will be what the Series 3 will record HD in, right?)? ie: did they announce any support for AVI or any other type of playback?


I haven't looked at the specs, but it probably wasn't a big deal to build that MCE add-on. I also don't see much of a use for it, but they'll probably try to generate buzz with a press announcement. 

megazone did say the new boxes will support other file formats. I think H.264 might have been one of them (is that your highly specific MP4?). Meaning, you'd be able to send more types of video *TO* the TiVo. If I remember correctly he also said it would continue to record in MPEG-2. Not sure how far along they are in developing this thing though... these are the types of specific details that can change. Someone feel free to add and/or correct what I've just posted.


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## J4yDubs (Jul 3, 2002)

GoHokies! said:


> Given the same set of facts, any reporting on them is going to be similar. And since there appears to only be one SA3 box in the world, any pictures of them are bound to look the same. Take a look at their front page and their extensive CES coverage and you don't really think that they have people there?


Ars head guy Cesar admitted that they got the information and pictures from readers and reuters. Guess where that information came from? The picture is mz's, no doubt about it. Same angle, same position, same shadows, same (out of) focus. 

John


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## TheAndrew (Jan 8, 2006)

J4yDubs said:


> Ars head guy Cesar admitted that they got the information and pictures from readers and reuters. Guess where that information came from? The picture is mz's, no doubt about it. Same angle, same position, same shadows, same (out of) focus.


I hate to step into this pointless argument, but you are wrong. The only thing the writer at ARS said was that they got the details from their reporter. Reuters had nothing to do with it (I guess that was brought up in reference to another story altogether). They obviously have people at CES, look at their website!

Isn't it lame to claim that they copied product SPECS from another site? They're SPECS, too, not opinions or insights or anything great. You could get the same details by calling Tivo.


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## J4yDubs (Jul 3, 2002)

TheAndrew said:


> I hate to step into this pointless argument, but you are wrong. The only thing the writer at ARS said was that they got the details from their reporter. Reuters had nothing to do with it (I guess that was brought up in reference to another story altogether). They obviously have people at CES, look at their website!


I guess the link back to here from Ars is bring in people. 

I was wrong about the Reuters info though. Your correct in that it was for another article. Caesar actually never says where the info was from. He just stated they have a person (later changed to people) there. Don't ya think his person (Eric) would have snapped a photo while he was there? He took pictures of a lot of other stuff...

Anyway, I'm done with the topic. I like Ars, but man do they have a problem admitting when they are wrong.

John


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

pendragn said:


> I heard somewhere that the Series 3 will not support MRV or TTG. That makes it even more confusing.
> 
> Anyone know for sure about that?
> 
> tk


Not for sure, buy my understanding is:

Initial software release might not support MRV/TTG, but when/if (small if) they are supported, it will only be limit to recordings other than those that passed through the CC, or are not flagged to prohibit copying.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

TSN648-0000-0000-000x
Model no TCD648250A
MAC ID 00 11 D9 00 00 0x

Identifying numbers blanked out.


----------



## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

GoHokies! said:


> Mega, I appreciate all the work you've done getting the word out to all of us that can't go to CES and see the goodness for ourselves. But, slagging another random website for doing the same work is just pretty f*@#ed up. Here's a hint. You're not the only person at CES. Given the same set of facts, any reporting on them is going to be similar. And since there appears to only be one SA3 box in the world, any pictures of them are bound to look the same. Take a look at their front page and their extensive CES coverage and you don't really think that they have people there?
> 
> Get over yourself, dude.


Get over what? What is it Megazone should "get over", exactly? Here's some defintions of plagiarism in case you are unclear on the concept:

http://www.google.com/search?hs=JS8...S:official_s&q=define:+plagiarism&btnG=Search

Sorry, they can't use the excuse that they were reporting the same "set of facts" when they lift entire sections of someone else's writing and/or slightly reword them and pass them off as their own. This isn't a case of two people writing about the same thing and coming up with similar reports; this is unattributed copying of someone else's reporting. Megazone has every reason to be ticked off at this, and you have no business telling him to "get over yourself, dude". If you were in his shoes you'd be ticked off, too. Is it really that much to ask that one's true source be properly attributed? There's no way in h_ll that they "accidently" came up with such a similar report, right down to the very same details that Megazone mentioned. Read the report and compare it to what Megazone wrote. There's no mistaking what is going on here.

In Journalism this is sheer laziness. It's not necessarily criminal, but it will get you fired from most reputable news sources. In academia this is grounds for expulsion in students, and a firing offense for teachers and professors. Granted we've been getting awful lax as a society lately, but plagiarism is still supposed to be a *bad* thing and trying to pass it off as "accidental similiarity" is just lame.


----------



## Larry in TN (Jun 21, 2002)

What does the "4" in "140", "240", "540", etc. mean?


----------



## lajohn27 (Dec 29, 2003)

648250A

How much you wanna bet that 250 means GB ?


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

pendragn said:


> I heard somewhere that the Series 3 will not support MRV or TTG. That makes it even more confusing.
> 
> Anyone know for sure about that?
> 
> tk





classicsat said:


> Not for sure, buy my understanding is:
> 
> Initial software release might not support MRV/TTG, but when/if (small if) they are supported, it will only be limit to recordings other than those that passed through the CC, or are not flagged to prohibit copying.


guys, these are all rumors based on the fact that TiVo did not release any real specs on features yet. Not much point in helping rumors along, don't you think?

the best intel came from Megazone's site after speaking with TiVoPony and TiVoJerry and others. on tivolovers.com he reported that TiVo expects to have MRV/TTG adn HME on the S3 limited by technical realities - (no HD to a S2) and that TiVo is not saying much yet because they are looking at what requirements cable lab puts on shows decrypted by a card.

Most likely this would be a similar form of DRM as macrovision bits that will need to be honored. So if DiscoveryHD wants to prohibit copying well that is their choice amidst consumer reaction. Still no one has made any specific link to an actual policy by cable labs itself on prohibiting anything and I would think DiscoveryHD or HBO would rather make their own choice than have Cable Labs do it for them


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## tgibbs (Sep 22, 2002)

jcricket said:


> d00d (had to geek out). This rocks. I will most definitely be ditching DirecTV for this product if it's available at a reasonable price. I'd much rather have a box that has full Tivo functionality than a hobbled one from DirecTV or Comcast (I have the HR10-250 now).
> 
> I mostly like that it's CableCard 2 ready, even though the cable co's aren't shipping those yet. I'd love to reduce the number of cables going into the back of my DVR.
> 
> Does anyone know what channels require a cable card on Comcast these days? I'm presuming HBO, Showtime, etc. IIRC, 2-way features (PPV? Interactive channels) require the CC 2 cards (which don't exist yet).


Anything that you can't pick up on a TV when you bypass the box would require the CC. Here in Boston, that is quite a bit, and includes a lot of the basic cable channels as well as all of the premium stuff. I also have the 10-250, and would seriously consider switching back to cable if this box becomes available.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

dmdeane said:


> Get over what? What is it Megazone should "get over", exactly?


Get over the fact that he isn't the only person at CES and that maybe he isn't the end all source on all things Tivo.



dmdeane said:


> Here's some defintions of plagiarism in case you are unclear on the concept:
> 
> *url removed*


I don't think that's the issue here. 4 years of college and 6 subsequent years in the Navy (most recently in the Intel community where sources and attribution are EVERYTHING) pretty much did more for me than a Google link sent to me by a Tivo^H^H^H^H megazone Fanboi.



> _*Inane and worthless "content" removed*_
> 
> There's no way in h_ll that they "accidently" came up with such a similar report, right down to the very same details that Megazone mentioned. Read the report and compare it to what Megazone wrote. There's no mistaking what is going on here.


What other details are there to write about? I'd certainly like to see more details (release date, price) but they JUST AREN'T THERE!!!



J4yDubs said:


> I guess the link back to here from Ars is bring in people.


No, that's actually so Ars readers can see for themselves what MZ had to say. You know, attributing your sources, kind of what this whole debate is about???

 indeed...


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

Larry in TN said:


> What does the "4" in "140", "240", "540", etc. mean?


It is the label brand of the DVR. 4 signifies TiVo. 0 is Philips, 1 is Sony, 3 Hughes (I think), 9 is Humax, E is TGC. there are others. First digit is series, last digit is hardware variation. (0=standalone, 1= DirecTV 4= DVD Player, 5= DVD recorder, etc).


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## Larry in TN (Jun 21, 2002)

classicsat said:


> It is the label brand of the DVR. 4 signifies TiVo. 0 is Philips, 1 is Sony, 3 Hughes (I think), 9 is Humax, E is TGC. there are others. First digit is series, last digit is hardware variation. (0=standalone, 1= DirecTV 4= DVD Player, 5= DVD recorder, etc).


Thanks!

Mine's a 140- but it's a Series 2 so the 1 and 2 as the first digit must both indicate a Series 2. What were Series 1's? 0?

Someone said that the Series 3 had a 64x- number so 6 must be for Series 3.


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## dmdeane (Apr 17, 2000)

GoHokies! said:


> Get over the fact that he isn't the only person at CES and that maybe he isn't the end all source on all things Tivo.


Sorry, we are all quite capable of reading ourselves and comparing and drawing our own conclusions. I've graded more than a few college papers and it's not difficult to tell when someone is "borrowing" from another source and not properly attributing it. Merely rewording someone else's work and passing it off as your own is not honest "journalism". It doesn't take a genius to figure out that they didn't actually bother to do their own legwork; given the exact same story, two different reporters often ask different questions or ask the same questions in different ways, and they interpret the answers differently from each other. If you'd study journalism you'd realize this: it's hilarious how differently the same story (no matter how small or simple the story is) can be reported by two different reporters, and how differently it can be written up by two different writers. The mind of the reporter/writer leaves its imprint on the work they produce. Those who pay attention to the details of writing can often recognize the source. You merely asserting that *"maybe"* they did their own legwork - while ignoring the evidence that in fact they copied someone else's work - proves nothing.

And no one said Megazone was the "end all" of anything. He merely was first to report on something and his report got picked up and copied all over the place much more widely and quickly than he expected. You are attributing to him motives that he does not have and "resentments" and "pretensions" that he specifically denied having (denials that you either did not see, did not believe, or chose to ignore, so that you could score rhetorical points by questioning his motives).

Of course you or someone else can prove me wrong, by revealing to us the name(s) of the reporter(s) who did the actual legwork (assuming it is different from the writer whose byline appears on the story), who he/she/they talked to at TiVo, Inc. to get his/her/their information, and how he/she/they managed to get his/her/their story out so fast while "accidently" copying Megazone's report down to the smallest details, including "accidently" using his pictures that he posted on his website. This is what a real journalist would do when faced with these kinds of accusations; instead of allowing anonymous posters to denounce his accusers for him, he would produce his sources, his notebooks, his contacts, and detail where his story came from. Megazone doesn't pretend to be a journalist, but he listed his sources and gave the full context of how he came by his information. I'm fairly confident that the people you are defending aren't going to do the same. Prove me wrong.

Here you deftly evade the point by trying to change the subject (ie, ignoring what was actually said by pretending that "nothing" was said!):


> What other details are there to write about? I'd certainly like to see more details (release date, price) but they JUST AREN'T THERE!!!


Go back and read what Megazone and others wrote. There are plenty of details (one example below), and you have your facts wrong, too: both Megazone and the accused plagiarist talk about the tentative release dates and tentative prices. I frankly question your reading comprehension abilities.

I don't care what the story is or how simple a story it is, these things don't happen "accidently" in journalism; if they did, we'd have to disregard Occam's Razor entirely. Context, word choice, word order, order of arguments, other little details are things you have to pay attention to (and which you are either ignoring or incapable of noticing) when recognizing these kinds of borrowings. These things don't happen by "accident". Can we "prove" what actually happened with absolute 100% forensic certitude? No. Can we look at the evidence and probabilities and draw a logical conclusion? D_mned straight we can. In case you missed this:


> Originally Posted by davezatz
> I've been a long-time reader and either this hasn't been happening or I've just never noticed it. The writer did respond in comments, but it's obvious to anyone who's read megazone's thoughs that they reiterating them point by point... down to the ridges on the back of the new remote.


Oh, and btw, the picture they posted on their site *was* Megazone's. They denied it was, in their comment section, yet they have removed it. So, either they were lying and got caught, or they mistakenly used the photo submitted by one of their "reporters" and did not realize their mistake until later; in either case, they removed it once it was pointed out to them, *however* they are not admitting their mistake, and this does not help their credibility.

And let's please have no more insults to our intelligence, claiming it was a picture that they took. It wasn't. You simply cannot duplicate the exact same settup, pose, angle, distance, resolution, lighting, and an infinite number of other intangible variables in two completely different impromptu photographs, all "accidentally". Moreover the fact that they removed the photo is tacit admission that they were wrong. We saw it, and it is more than bleeding obvious: it was Megazone's photo.

If they did this with Megazone's photo, ie, borrow it without attribution, the odds are very, very strong that they did it with his actual report, as well. I'm willing to be generous and speculate that maybe they didn't do this deliberately, maybe someone submitted it to them pretending it was their own original reporting, or someone submitted Megazone's story and there was a communication mixup about who the actual source was, and they went with it, not realizing their error. Fine, they should admit their mistake and move on - or, if they are right about everything they have said, they should produce their sources and prove their claim, rather than attacking their critics.

Given their pattern of behavior, who do you think we are going to trust, in future? If they can't be honest with us about this, what else are they not honest with us about? What else are they taking "shortcuts" with in their reporting?

Is this a big deal? In the larger scheme of things, probably not (we will "autocorrect our information sources" over time by disregarding those that prove to be dishonest). You'll notice it's not actually Megazone who is making a big issue about this. He's not a journalist and it isn't his business to worry about this kind of thing. But it is common courtesy, not to mention good journalism, to properly attribute your sources, and to admit your mistakes and correct your errors, rather than going into full Bush/Cheney "we never make a mistake" denial mode, when someone points these things out. Otherwise one's reputation as a reliable reporter of information is going to suffer.

Our criticism here isn't really intended to be hostile to Ars Technica, nor is this some kind of ego trip on our part that we aren't able to "get over" (as you constantly insinuate); we are actually trying to help Ars Technica. If they chose to interpret our efforts to be helpful as hostility and personal attacks on them, then it's their funeral. They obviously don't know who their real friends are.

There is nothing more for me to say on this topic. I know a lot of others here agree with me but don't want to get into a p_ssing contest with anonymous internet posters over something that can't be proven with 100% certainty, and which we can't do anything about in any case. I've said my piece. I'm fairly certain that it has fallen on deaf ears. I tried. There is no point in saying anything more.


----------



## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

GoHokies! said:


> I don't think that's the issue here. 4 years of college and 6 subsequent years in the Navy (most recently in the Intel community where sources and attribution are EVERYTHING)...


As a self-proclaimed member of the intelligence community, the fact that you can't tell that the photo posted by ARS was Megazone's, or that the information in their article came from him, goes a long way toward explaining the WMD fiasco.


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## kjmcdonald (Sep 8, 2003)

ChuckyBox said:


> As a self-proclaimed member of the intelligence community, the fact that you can't tell that the photo posted by ARS was Megazone's, or that the information in their article came from him, goes a long way toward explaining the WMD fiasco.


Heh.

If the post about cablecard versions (1.1/1.5 vs. 2.0) is correct, then the ARS article even contains the same mistakes as Megazones article... LOL Still think it's not copied?


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## kjmcdonald (Sep 8, 2003)

Actually, Where does ARS get the idea that this S3 *is* the DVR Tivo aggreed to design for ComCast?

Megazone, did anyone from tivo lead you to beleive that?

To me there is still a Comcast branded and customized DVR still coming running the Tivo software, no?

Though now that I think about it, with CableCard slots in the S3, isn't a Comcast only DVR kind of obsolete now? I mean what could it offer that this S3 can't?

-Kyle


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

kjmcdonald said:


> Actually, Where does ARS get the idea that this S3 *is* the DVR Tivo aggreed to design for ComCast?
> 
> Megazone, did anyone from tivo lead you to beleive that?
> 
> ...


Nothing to purchase, only one company/bill to deal with. Local (in-person) support. Until both actually are available it's really all guesses.


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## J4yDubs (Jul 3, 2002)

kjmcdonald said:


> Actually, Where does ARS get the idea that this S3 *is* the DVR Tivo aggreed to design for ComCast?


Read the discussion on Ars. I asked Ken the same question. Glad to know I'm not the only one who read it that way. It is possible, just unlikely.

John


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

kjmcdonald said:


> Actually, Where does ARS get the idea that this S3 *is* the DVR Tivo aggreed to design for ComCast?
> 
> Megazone, did anyone from tivo lead you to beleive that?
> 
> ...


the Comcast boxc was to be a port of TiVo software to a motorolla box . this is not a motorolla box. The thing missing would be the ability to communicate back to the headend at Comcast for interactive things like PPV or VOD. Comcast seems to have a bit invested in those two things.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

J4yDubs said:


> Read the discussion on Ars. I asked Ken the same question. Glad to know I'm not the only one who read it that way. It is possible, just unlikely.


You weren't. I read it that way, too. His response was just as defensive about that as it was about everything else. If that guy is going to keep doing what he's doing he better learn to 1) give credit where credit is due, and 2) admit when he is wrong and thank the person who provides correct info. It is one thing to quibble in an online forum like this, but when you publish items that are represented as factual articles and informed opinion, another set of standards come into play.

But his mistake seems to be a common one. Many of us have known all along that the TiVo-Comcast product was software-only, but Tom Rogers has been taking great pains to make that point as clear as possible to analysts and investors because, apparently, the Comcast deal has been widely misunderstood to include a hardware element (like the DirecTV deal). It does not. The TiVo product will run on Comcast's already-deployed primary DVR platform as a software download.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> ...the ability to communicate back to the headend at Comcast for interactive things like PPV or VOD. Comcast seems to have a bit invested in those two things.


Good point, Zeo, I forgot about that being a Very Important Thing for Comcast.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

gonzotek said:


> Good point, Zeo, I forgot about that being a Very Important Thing for Comcast.


Comcast may also wish to disable (or, "not enable") certain TiVo features. I doubt very much that they want their subscribers to have access to competitive content, products, or services on the internet.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

ChuckyBox said:


> Comcast may also wish to disable (or, "not enable") certain TiVo features. I doubt very much that they want their subscribers to have access to competitive content, products, or services on the internet.


It's certainly possible, they may do that, although the original press release had a blurb touting the home media and internet features:


> In addition, the service will showcase TiVo's home networking, multimedia, and broadband capabilities.
> source:http://www.tivo.com/cms_static/press_34.html


Another possibility is that they might agressively push their internet service to users interested in the MoTiVo.


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## Justin Thyme (Mar 29, 2005)

The main feature that Comcast wants to enable is: DirecTv has abandonned you, so welcome Tivo owners to the Tivo experience here on Comcast Cable.

Expect generous Comcast deals for customers who exchange their DTivo for a Moto with TivoInside.

The OCAP Tivo code is not an exclusive deal- expect the other Cablecos to do the same promotions. Tivo will have to port it to match up with other Headends, and if they are running Sci-Atl- but they are still OCAP systems so all the core work is done (and paid for by Comcast) for the first release.

That alignment of business goals may serve to stamp out the bickering over some of the advanced features. So maybe it won't be the partnership born in hell- engineering project nightmare that I have had the misfortune to experience before.

They can't compromise all features, or it doesn't look to DirecTv customers they are getting the Tivo features they always wanted but DirecTv blocked. It does no good if Comcast blocks them too. But Comcast doesn't have to block, but can compromise with Tivo and trim them. EG- Maybe you won't see TivoToGo back for generic Mpegs- only that which was encoded by Tivo. Maybe you won't see generic video feeds from the internet, but you will for those who agree to Comcast hosting (I know- yuck- but hey... they aren't dumb they will try and co opt everything)....


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## nhaigh (Jul 16, 2001)

kjmcdonald said:


> Actually, Where does ARS get the idea that this S3 *is* the DVR Tivo aggreed to design for ComCast?
> 
> Megazone, did anyone from tivo lead you to beleive that?
> 
> ...


The Comcast solution is to be the TiVo software running on their existing Motorola boxes. The idea is that they can upgrade thye boxes they already have in the field rather than deploy new hardware.

The S3 we have seen is not the Comcast solution, however it would work on Comcast Cable and probbaly along side the Comcast Box as well with MRV etc. This is of course speculation but both boxes are said to support MRV, HMO etc.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Justin Thyme said:


> The OCAP Tivo code is not an exclusive deal- expect the other Cablecos to do the same promotions...


We'll see... the deal was described as non-exclusive but Comcast is bankrolling TiVo development.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

davezatz said:


> We'll see... the deal was described as non-exclusive but Comcast is bankrolling TiVo development.


Non-exclusive, but in which directions? Comcast can use other DVR software, TiVo can market its solution to other cablecos, or both? This is something I've been wondering about for awhile, maybe it's spelled out clearly somewhere and I didn't see it or understand what I was seeing. I'm much more a techie than business-type, so I often haven't a clue what the lingo really means.


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## Justin Thyme (Mar 29, 2005)

Maybe I am imagining things, but it occured to me while listening to Rogers yesterday that he was talking about helping the Cable companies (in particular Comcast) poach the DTivo customers.

3 million customers- that's a lot of yadayada, so it argues that this will not be a limited trial like Microsoft's OCAP thing in Wash. State.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Any news on whether these things will communicate with series 2 boxes for transfers via MRV?


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## Justin Thyme (Mar 29, 2005)

There are lots of statements about non-exclusivity, but they are not meant in the software sense- they are talking not about Comcast exclusively using Tivo software, or Tivo is not limiting itself to just doing a carrier box deal with Comcast.

I do not recall where I read of about the code itself being non-exclusive- in the sense that Microsoft did not do an exclusive deal with IBM for DOS.

BTW- it is just speculation that this is an OCAP implementation. I haven't heard anything definitive yet, but it's my guess the way they would go. But I haven't really gotten up to speed on OCAP yet, so it is a pretty half assed opinion at this point.


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## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

Justin Thyme said:


> 3 million customers- that's a lot of yadayada, so it argues that this will not be a limited trial like Microsoft's OCAP thing in Wash. State.


The Microsoft TV Foundation version that Comcast has been trialing up in Seattle is _not_ OCAP based. It's a native app that runs on the Moto DCT boxes.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

gonzotek said:


> Non-exclusive, but in which directions? Comcast can use other DVR software, TiVo can market its solution to other cablecos, or both? This is something I've been wondering about for awhile, maybe it's spelled out clearly somewhere and I didn't see it or understand what I was seeing. I'm much more a techie than business-type, so I often haven't a clue what the lingo really means.


In both directions. Comcast can and will use other software and, despite the fact that Comcast is paying for the development, TiVo will own the port. The amount that Comcast pays TiVo may be adjusted under certain (unknown) conditions. One of those conditions may be that TiVo will get less if they use the port with another MSO or secure additional development funds from another MSO.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

Justin Thyme said:


> Maybe I am imagining things, but it occured to me while listening to Rogers yesterday that he was talking about helping the Cable companies (in particular Comcast) poach the DTivo customers.


He was absolutely, unquestionably saying exactly that. TiVo has become increasingly bold about this over the past few months. They are going to help cable try to take DTV customers, and they are going to help cable keep their own customers from defecting.

I've run a lot of numbers on various scenarios, but the simplest is this: if Comcast can snag just 100K of DTV's subscribers (and remember these are the most valuable digital-using, DVR-having subs) they will generate something in the neighborhood of $80 million PER YEAR in additional revenue. That easily pays for the entire TiVo development effort in less than a year. For just 1 / 30th of DTV's TiVo subs. And keep in mind that preventing a sub from churning is just as valuable (maybe more so) than regaining an already-defected one. Plus, the TiVo name will probably help them gain back some of the DISH subs. And get upgrades from their analog subs. Etc.

The deal is an absolute no-brainer for Comcast. So much so that it would be flat stupid for the other big MSOs not to jump on board. I wouldn't be surprised to see a deal with Cox within the next few months.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

ChuckyBox said:


> The deal is an absolute no-brainer for Comcast.


But what kind of deal is it for TiVo? Do they cannibalize their own subscriptions and hardware sales? Or do the stand-alone TiVo units have additional features so they can play that market too (though they've said somewhere all features are being ported)? If this S3 costs more than say $600 and is comparable in features to the Comcast box with no upfront fees, guess which one I'm getting. The SATA drive isn't enough to move me.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

davezatz said:


> But what kind of deal is it for TiVo? Do they cannibalize their own subscriptions and hardware sales? Or do the stand-alone TiVo units have additional features so they can play that market too (though they've said somewhere all features are being ported)?


That's an unknown, but I'm sure they are aware of the issue. The Series 3 is being targeted toward the high-end home theater crowd, so one assumes that it will have the features and specifications to set it apart (not just hardware features, but TiVo service features) for that market.

As for current subs, the cannibalization would be people who have TiVo Series 2 boxes, but who wouldn't convert to a cable DVR unless it was also TiVo. I don't know how many of those there are, but it probably isn't zero. And I don't see the series 3 attracting large numbers of new customers -- I would guess that most of their sales will come from current subs who want the upgrade.

But Comcast isn't the whole world. Even if Cox and TWX sign on (Charter probably never will), there are still many, many digital households for whom the Series 3 is the only HD TiVo option. Plus analog and OTA.

I guess time will tell. All I know for sure is that I'm buying a Series 3 as soon as I can get it. (Unlike you, I'm not in a Comcast neighborhood.)


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## Justin Thyme (Mar 29, 2005)

Personally, I am betting the Comcast thing will be Tivo Light, and you don't get all the cool stuff.

I had a thought though- Maybe the Comcast app is a one off.

When the other Cableco's see dollars and Tivo says- the porting work would take too long, bue here- we'll agree to do a co-op program where you subsidize DTivo customers trading in their DirecTivo for an S3. To get VOD and PPV, as part of the deal, Tivo works out a mechanism for the S3 to communicat to the CableCo via IP.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

GoHokies! said:


> Given the same set of facts, any reporting on them is going to be similar. And since there appears to only be one SA3 box in the world, any pictures of them are bound to look the same. Take a look at their front page and their extensive CES coverage and you don't really think that they have people there?


The level of similarity is a little odd. And it was clearly a cropped and resized version of one of my photos - 100% positive.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

cwoody222 said:


> Can someone explain what we're seeing in these pics?
> 
> http://www.something-fishy.com/photography/TiVoS3/mce1
> http://www.something-fishy.com/photography/TiVoS3/mce2


I think Dave Zatz answered this. It is basically a plug-in for Windows MCE that gives TiVo Desktop a 10-foot interface and makes it usable with the MCE remote. Intel was involved somehow - I would guess marketing dollars, as part of their Viiv branding effort.

As for comments about doing this instead of Mac - there really is no comparison. This is a fairly simple plug-in UI for MCE that sits on top of the desktop components. The Mac work, which is being done simultaneously, is much more involved.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

cwoody222 said:


> Will that add-on... or the Series 3... be able to handle any additional file formats other than .tivo, highly-specific MPEG-2 or MPEG-4 (which will be what the Series 3 will record HD in, right?)? ie: did they announce any support for AVI or any other type of playback?


The chip in the Series3 does at least MPEG-2, MPEG-4 AVC/H.264, and VC-1 (aka WM9). Whether or not all of these work day-one isn't 100% certain. And while it may be possible to support formats like DivX, which are based on MPEG-4, there isn't any word on that yet.

MPEG-4 and VC-1 are important for broadband content. They're widely used (VC-1 is the same as WMV9 pretty much) and allow for even HD content downloads.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

lajohn27 said:


> 648250A
> 
> How much you wanna bet that 250 means GB ?


No bet - it does. The unit on display had a 250GB drive.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

kjmcdonald said:


> Actually, Where does ARS get the idea that this S3 *is* the DVR Tivo aggreed to design for ComCast?
> 
> Megazone, did anyone from tivo lead you to beleive that?
> 
> ...


1. I don't know, it seems someone put 2 and 2 together and got 5.

2. Quite the opposite. It was clearly stated that the S3 is *not* the Comcast box. TiVo has already stated that the Comcast deal is porting their software to the Motorola 6412, as well as a new Motorola STB that will be coming out.

3. Yes.

4. Cable boxes don't do ATSC/NTSC, but they do bidirectional communication (not yet supported by CableCARD) for VOD, PPV, etc.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

Justin Thyme said:


> BTW- it is just speculation that this is an OCAP implementation.


I asked about OCAP and was told the port is to the HW platform, and it is not OCAP.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

davezatz said:


> But what kind of deal is it for TiVo? Do they cannibalize their own subscriptions and hardware sales? Or do the stand-alone TiVo units have additional features so they can play that market too (though they've said somewhere all features are being ported)? If this S3 costs more than say $600 and is comparable in features to the Comcast box with no upfront fees, guess which one I'm getting. The SATA drive isn't enough to move me.


as you most likely recall I had the same feeling that the Comcast deal would be bad for us Stand Alone users when it was first announced. the S3 sure makes me feel better about getting a next gen digital TiVo that kicks butt 

and I agree that it will cannibalize sales - but think of it another way. TiVo is swapping out having to sell the hardware and have acquisition costs for letting Comcast deal with the hardware while TiVo gets a peice of the Subsciption action. That porbably does not look as bad as a lost sale when you have all the accounting numbers.

The main thing TiVo needs to do in my opinion is get the SA series 3 out BEFORE Comcast can roll out TiVo so TiVo,inc gets its early adopter sales at the early adopter price


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## HotStuff2 (Feb 21, 2005)

I didn't read this whole thread (my apologies), but I did look at the pics of teh "Series 3 TiVo" - and saw the dual CableCard slots as well as the High Def connections.  

If someone at TiVo is reading this, all I have to say is:

GIMME! GIMME! GIMME! GIMME! GIMME! GIMME! GIMME! GIMME! GIMME! GIMME! 

I know no price was announced, but I'm really hoping it won't be a grand like the DirecTV ones. $399 would be great, less would be sweet. Maybe to sweeten the deal, TiVo could offer some sort of extended contract for existign customers to upgrade (like, buy the new Series3, get 6 months free service or something.)

Sorry if I'm not making sense...still drooling over the Series3 pics of the HD connectors.


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## shady (May 31, 2002)

ChuckyBox said:


> The Series 3 is being targeted toward the high-end home theater crowd...


I agree with you in that the Series 3 should meet the demands of the high-end home theatre buff, but I don't believe this is the market TiVo will specifically target.

Comcast changed the rules on this. You want a PVR? well for $5 extra per month you get a PVR. The fact that you may not be able to use its High Def output, or Dolby Digital doesn't matter, it's one box for everyone, with one price.

Lets not forget that the Series 3 has the potential to be much easier to setup for the novice, and with its two tuners, it gets over the usual FAQs about watching a program while recording another. I think what will determine which market it is aimed at will be the price.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

megazone said:


> I asked about OCAP and was told the port is to the HW platform, and it is not OCAP.


Thanks for clearing that up megazone. Any idea on how that would effect ports of the Motorolla code for Comcast to other hardware? Easier, the same, more difficult ?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

HotStuff2 said:


> ...I know no price was announced, but I'm really hoping it won't be a grand like the DirecTV ones. $399 would be great, less would be sweet. Maybe to sweeten the deal, TiVo could offer some sort of extended contract for existign customers to upgrade (like, buy the new Series3, get 6 months free service or something....


Sorry...ain't gonna happen. No way it will be less than $500, and more likely closer to $1,000 (hopefully somewhere inbetween!). And don't look for any "amnesty" for current lifetime subbers or monthly ...that's where TiVo makes the little money it does.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

shady said:


> I agree with you in that the Series 3 should meet the demands of the high-end home theatre buff, but I don't believe this is the market TiVo will specifically target.


TiVo's CEO, Tom Rogers, has said that high-end is the target market. Check the thread called "CEO Webcast" for a link to a recent talk (including slides!) in which he makes this point. The series 3 will not be cheap, so it can't compete on price with cable DVRs. They will use the TiVo brand and reputation for being the best, and a growing list of differentiating features, to market this box to the high-end user who is willing to pay for the best.

But whatever they do, I can guarantee you that the bulk of their early sales will come from current subscribers who, like me, are about ready to kick in the door to TiVo HQ to get one of these things. And talk about cheap marketing -- all they have to do is put a showcase ad for the Series 3 on the standalone boxes and the orders will come pouring in.


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## nhaigh (Jul 16, 2001)

Bierboy said:


> Sorry...ain't gonna happen. No way it will be less than $500, and more likely closer to $1,000 (hopefully somewhere inbetween!). And don't look for any "amnesty" for current lifetime subbers or monthly ...that's where TiVo makes the little money it does.


That's the way I see it. $999 will be the SRP is my guess, possibly with $150 mail in rebate with one years commitment. I'm still expecting the monthly service to be higher, say $20, beacuse of the two tuners and likewise the lifetime to be higher as well, say $400. Adter a few months with some volume sales and in time for the 2006 holiday season we may see a price drop to around $500.


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## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

nhaigh said:


> That's the way I see it. $999 will be the SRP is my guess, possibly with $150 mail in rebate with one years commitment. I'm still expecting the monthly service to be higher, say $20, beacuse of the two tuners and likewise the lifetime to be higher as well, say $400. Adter a few months with some volume sales and in time for the 2006 holiday season we may see a price drop to around $500.


I doubt the monthly fee will be higher for two tuners boxes? Was it for the DTiVos after they got two tuners before DTV took over the billing? The fee is for the data, and the tuners use the same data.

I can't say the rates won't increase, but I guess it would be across the board with single and double tuner boxes paying the same.

tk


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

ZeoTiVo said:


> The main thing TiVo needs to do in my opinion is get the SA series 3 out BEFORE Comcast can roll out TiVo so TiVo,inc gets its early adopter sales at the early adopter price


I agree that would be ideal, but given the fact that they are already doing demos on the Comcast box, but are still in the hardware prototype phase of the Series 3, it seems like they would have to intentionally delay the Comcast box to keep it from coming out first.


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## dr_mal (Mar 21, 2001)

ChuckyBox said:


> I agree that would be ideal, but given the fact that they are already doing demos on the Comcast box, but are still in the hardware prototype phase of the Series 3, it seems like they would have to intentionally delay the Comcast box to keep it from coming out first.


Where was the demo of the Comcast box? The demo box at CES was the Series 3. And in terms of hardware prototypes, it looked MUCH more finished (at least in the pictures I saw) than the D* MPEG4 HD PVR, which is supposed to be in consumers' homes in the middle of this year.


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## HotStuff2 (Feb 21, 2005)

nhaigh said:


> That's the way I see it. $999 will be the SRP is my guess, possibly with $150 mail in rebate with one years commitment. I'm still expecting the monthly service to be higher, say $20, beacuse of the two tuners and likewise the lifetime to be higher as well, say $400. Adter a few months with some volume sales and in time for the 2006 holiday season we may see a price drop to around $500.


The problem I see with that cost is that they're just not gonna sell as many as they need to. Will I buy it for $1k? Probably not. $500 is my max range, personally. Do I love TiVo? Sure. Can I live without it? Absolutely. Is my cable co. HD DVR cheaper? Yep. SD TiVo's dont sell like crazy at $200 (unless there's a MIR, making it cheaper), so what I envision is that it will probably start at $999, and within 3-6 months, will drop to half that.

And having two tuners won't cost more - those are cable cards, which you have to get from the cable provider. I doubt TiVo will charge more for two cable cards, because there's no real way for them to track if you have one or two. If it comes with two slots, it's probably enabled for two cable cards. If I only insert one, how does TiVo know the other slot is empty?  They wouldn't. I don't see monthly costs rising. As it is, they're competing with the cable co.'s HD DVRs, as bad as they may be, and convincin Joe Schmoe to pay more is a tough sell as it is.


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## kjmcdonald (Sep 8, 2003)

shady said:


> I agree with you in that the Series 3 should meet the demands of the high-end home theatre buff, but I don't believe this is the market TiVo will specifically target.
> 
> Comcast changed the rules on this. You want a PVR? well for $5 extra per month you get a PVR. The fact that you may not be able to use its High Def output, or Dolby Digital doesn't matter, it's one box for everyone, with one price.
> 
> Lets not forget that the Series 3 has the potential to be much easier to setup for the novice, and with its two tuners, it gets over the usual FAQs about watching a program while recording another. I think what will determine which market it is aimed at will be the price.


The atractive thing for me on the S3 is the cablecard. I mean even if I have to rent the card from Comcast my setup is still so much simpler to wire, to use. The tivo will have it's 2 tuners, my TV will it's 1 or 2 tuners. the Tivo connects to the Tv. Done. No extra cable boxes to worry about. or to wire, or power. No IR blaster's, no serial cables. No extra remote controls.

And for now at least cablecards are free from comcast where I live. So there's no box and remote rental charges either, and No extra fees for multiple rooms like with Satellite.

There is still the Tivo fee, but the lifetiem subscription on the first box still makes sense, and with 2 tuners, I'm not sure I'd need a second box at all. Maybe a second one, but then I'd have 4 tuners, and I know I'd never need more than that!

What I do wish Tivo would come out with would be a Tivo 'player' or 'viewer'. That can't record but can play content from broadband or other Tivo's. Maybe I'll have to build one myself with a small MCE PC, and the new MCE plugin. Or maybe I'll be able to get an Xbox 360 and use it's MCE viewer?

My dream would be for Tivo to do a deal with Sony though (or make a 'game' disk on their own) and build a Tivo viewer into the PlayStation 3. The PS3 has a hard disk right?

-Kyle


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

dr_mal said:


> Where was the demo of the Comcast box? The demo box at CES was the Series 3.


For the public, yes, it was the Series 3. But there is fairly strong evidence that Comcast execs, some institutional investors, and maybe other cable execs got demos of the Comcast-TiVo-Motorola box. Have a look at the "TiVo CEO webcast" thread.


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## shady (May 31, 2002)

ChuckyBox said:


> TiVo's CEO, Tom Rogers, has said that high-end is the target market.


Hadn't seen that, thanks for the pointer.


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## dr_mal (Mar 21, 2001)

ChuckyBox said:


> For the public, yes, it was the Series 3. But there is fairly strong evidence that Comcast execs, some institutional investors, and maybe other cable execs got demos of the Comcast-TiVo-Motorola box. Have a look at the "TiVo CEO webcast" thread.


Yup, I missed that thread. That's very interesting. If it was in a hidden room though, wouldn't that imply that it was less finished looking, not more?

Doesn't really matter though, IMHO. I'm excited about both these boxes being available this year.


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## JAaronT (Jun 26, 2003)

RF remote, please.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Thanks for clearing that up megazone. Any idea on how that would effect ports of the Motorolla code for Comcast to other hardware? Easier, the same, more difficult ?


Well, not TiVo specific, but for ports in general, if the port is to other, similar hardware (another Motorola platform, another platform using the same basic architecture, etc), then it can help a lot and it is possible to recycle the work. The simplest would be a port to another MSO's 6412. Only any Comcast specific code would need to be replaced.

Porting to a platform like the SciAtl 8000/8300 probably wouldn't benefit much directly, since it is a different architecture, but the experience of doing the port would make doing another one easier.


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## Justin Thyme (Mar 29, 2005)

megazone said:


> ... if the port is to other, similar hardware (another Motorola platform, another platform using the same basic architecture, etc), then it can help a lot and it is possible to recycle the work. The simplest would be a port to another MSO's 6412. Only any Comcast specific code would need to be replaced.
> 
> Porting to a platform like the SciAtl 8000/8300 probably wouldn't benefit much directly, since it is a different architecture, but the experience of doing the port would make doing another one easier.


 So- than non portability comment suggests to me that you have reason to believe it is Motorola Native code rather than Java/Ocap. Native makes it more believable as a real Tivo. But OCAP makes it easier to rollout to lots of eyeballs for Ad revenue.

Just an innocent question.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

Justin Thyme said:


> So- than non portability comment suggests to me that you have reason to believe it is Motorola Native code rather than Java/Ocap.


Yes - the reason being I asked if it was OCAP or native and was told it was native. 

I mentioned that a couple of times in some threads around here. ;-)


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## Justin Thyme (Mar 29, 2005)

Very sorry I missed it. I heard you say the S3 would have no Ocap. I didn't get that the Moto Tivo would be native. Actually, I don't recall you discussing Comcast TIvo at all come to think of it. 

It is interesting that if other cablecos want to poach those direcTivo subs while the opportunity is ripe, then they will have to buy or heavily subsidize Tivo S3's in order to persuade them to move over. 

I suppose second half of 2006 would be soon enough, but heck- analog only systems could be going for the directivo guys by giving away an S2 per DirecTivo convert. 

Or digital systems could hit the gas right now and at current S2 prices, they could make it an S2 and a video iPod for a 2 year commitment (option to upgrade to Moto Tivo or S3 later).

Yay! no Ocap Tivo from hell!


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## danieljanderson (Nov 19, 2002)

What is OCAP and why is it bad?


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## kjmcdonald (Sep 8, 2003)

Justin Thyme said:


> Very sorry I missed it. I heard you say the S3 would have no Ocap. I didn't get that the Moto Tivo would be native. Actually, I don't recall you discussing Comcast TIvo at all come to think of it.
> 
> It is interesting that if other cablecos want to poach those direcTivo subs while the opportunity is ripe, then they will have to buy or heavily subsidize Tivo S3's in order to persuade them to move over.
> 
> ...


Actually,

Earlier I questioned why anyone would want the Comcast box now that the S3 is around. The main answer was getting support for everything from one company.

That now gives me another idea. Instead of the other cable companies subsidizing the S3 purchase, why couldn't the Cable companies arrange to do support for the S3's they sell/rent themselves in exchange for Tivo giving them a discount on the boxes. This gives the customer the better box, gives the cableco and tivo a customer, and Tivo doesn't have any added support cost.

Tivo even after giving the discount on the box could arrange for the cableco to pay a monthly or percall fee to them, and Tivo could continue to handle the support. With their people just answering the phone with the cableco's name.

There are all sorts of possibilites 

-Kyle


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## lajohn27 (Dec 29, 2003)

That was one piece of the puzzle I was thinking over too..

The TIVO S3 could just as easy be a cableco offering (with bidirectional multistream support) vs. a consumer electronic device.

Innnnn-teresting.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

lajohn27 said:


> The TIVO S3 could just as easy be a cableco offering (with bidirectional multistream support) vs. a consumer electronic device.


If they roll that CableCARD version that was demo-ed at CES, it won't be bidirectional unless they do some custom stuff to support each cable co's infrastructure.

TiVo has partnered with some small cable providers who are basically TiVo resellers and installers. That model could be incorporated with the S3 I guess. Though the cable company would probably prefer folks buy VOD/PPV which requires their own box.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

davezatz said:


> If they roll that CableCARD version that was demo-ed at CES, it won't be bidirectional unless they do some custom stuff to support each cable co's infrastructure.


While it would be a bit ugly, I suppose that TiVo could produce (have produced) and external USB breakout box that added the necessary bidirectional circuitry.

Have the video cable run into the box, then out of the box and into the existing video input on the S3. The bidirectional encoding and transmission stuff could be handled by the new box over the USB connection.

Then if the bidirectional support varies between cable companies just roll out a company specific breakout box.

Of course the S3 software would need to be updated to take advantage of it, but it does let the necessary encoding/transmission hardware be added to existing S3s.


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## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

Jonathan_S said:


> While it would be a bit ugly, I suppose that TiVo could produce (have produced) and external USB breakout box that added the necessary bidirectional circuitry.


Firewire would work much better for this. Heck ... cable company boxes are required to support Firewire so you wouldn't even need a special Tivo-only box. If the market doesn't provide a box, just use the cable company's untill it does.

Opps there I go again (Firewire)


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## kjmcdonald (Sep 8, 2003)

davezatz said:


> If they roll that CableCARD version that was demo-ed at CES, it won't be bidirectional unless they do some custom stuff to support each cable co's infrastructure.


I thought CableCard 2.0 was bidirectional, and that this early model had and 'early' cablecard 2.0 slot? I know that standard is up in the air, but assuming it settles down eventually in a form that Tivo can match in software, there's nothing really sstopping the S3 from doing VOD or PPV is there? In that case I don't think it would need to match each co's infrastructure.

I was rereading a bunch of posts in this thread, and I'm confused why people think the comcast box will be cheaper than the S3? In my area comcast charges $15 a month for a digital DVR service. This is on top of the 5.25 or 8.20(HD) 'box rental' fee I beleive, but maybe not. I bet an HD Tivo DVR would be $20 or more.

I'd much rather buy the box upfront than to pay comcast every month. at $20/mo I'd be better off buying a $600 S3 if I was going to have it for more than 2.5 years. That seems likely.

-Kyle


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Plus, we don't know yet (or do we) if Comcast will charge a premium fee to have the TiVo software on the Comcast boxes.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

kjmcdonald said:


> I thought CableCard 2.0 was bidirectional, and that this early model had and 'early' cablecard 2.0 slot? I know that standard is up in the air, but assuming it settles down eventually in a form that Tivo can match in software, there's nothing really sstopping the S3 from doing VOD or PPV is there? In that case I don't think it would need to match each co's infrastructure.


The newest version of CableCARD, which that TiVo seems to support, is multistream. Bidirectional support is still being argued over and developed. I've decided to stop using 1.0 versus 2.0 as labels since they don't seem to have a lot of meaning in reality. Unless we call this newer multistream card 1.5, with the full 2.0 still at least a year or so away. dt_dc is the expert on this, maybe he'll chime in and elaborate or correct me.


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## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

davezatz said:


> dt_dc is the expert on this, maybe he'll chime in and elaborate or correct me.


Nope ... you got it.

Bidirectional and multistream are _seperate_ issues.

It was widely assumed they'd be addressed at the same time (hence the CableCard 2.0 notion). But ...


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

dt_dc said:


> Nope ... you got it.
> 
> Bidirectional and multistream are _seperate_ issues.
> 
> It was widely assumed they'd be addressed at the same time (hence the CableCard 2.0 notion). But ...


I saw qa 2 minute blurb on the news in Charlotte, NC last night that 
Time Warner Cable was letting employees test cable cards with interactive support on cable ready TVs and no set top box.

No other real info (it seemed to be PPV/VOD and pause/FF/RW stuff)

the used the phrase specifically "cable card with interactive support" and "cable ready TV" they did not say what model TV or anything nor of course what was doing the interacting

I had been looking around local sites for more concrete details of it but did not find any. Thought it was interesting in light of recent threads.


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## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I saw qa 2 minute blurb on the news in Charlotte, NC last night that Time Warner Cable was letting employees test cable cards with interactive support on cable ready TVs and no set top box.


That is the Time Warner / Samsung field trial ...
http://www.webwire.com/ViewPressRel.asp?aId=7838

Again ... cable says bidirectional / OCAP is ready to go ...
http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6518185072

The CEA does not like their proposal ...
http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6518185152

When it comes to bidirectional functionality ... the CEA and NCTA/CableLabs not only aren't in the same ballpark ... they are barely even playing the same game.

Here's one example (switched broadcasts) why:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3671934&&#post3671934


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

dt_dc said:


> Here's one example (switched broadcasts) why:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3671934&&#post3671934


Huh, mention of "interactive" channels like French or Hindi on the TWC web site yesterday That I can not find today


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## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Huh, mention of "interactive" channels like French or Hindi on the TWC web site yesterday That I can not find today


For a variety or reasons ... yes, foreign channels tend to be some of the best candidates for switched broadcasts ...

However, Time Warner's switched broadcast trial in Austin included 170 channels:
http://www.bigbandnet.com/news/inTheNews/2005/news_062705a.php


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## 11274 (Dec 1, 2001)

megazone said:


> I asked about OCAP and was told the port is to the HW platform, and it is not OCAP.


I still have to wonder how thin the port to the HW platform is. The internals of the current Tivo software are pretty well understood. But, I don't think we know much about the Motorola firmware. It could be little more than a bios, or maybe a micro kernel, or possibly a real time OS.

In the first two cases they could be porting Linux on top of it, and have a full blown Tivo environment.
In the latter case they may be just porting tivoapp as an Iguide replacement, adapting to what ever services and limitations the Motorola OS provides.


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## jim.flack (Jan 14, 2006)

Hmm...The case looks like my Sony Series 2...Wonder if it glows blue?


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

No blue glow.


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