# Loaded MCE Computer with Lifetime for $500



## TechDreamer (Jan 27, 2002)

MCE

This is the best deal I have ever seen on an MCE system and Microsoft includes lifetime service. So if lifetime can be valued at $300, then the computer is only $200. I have a Tivo and an MCE and I love them both. Tivo's strength is as a straight DVR, but MCE smokes Tivo on everything else in my opinon. MCE is great for archiving DVD's and Tivo video. MCE also has great online features that actually work unlike Tivo. Just letting people know you have alternatives.


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## btl-a4 (Dec 28, 2005)

But to be fair your gonna have to add another $150 for a PVR-350 or other MPEG2 Decoder card to make it a fair comparison. But $650 is still a good price if it performs well. For less than $650 though you could get an 80hr humax with lifetime. Of course it won't do everything the MCE computer will do, but I tend to like a standalone PC to do my standard computing tasks.


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## TechDreamer (Jan 27, 2002)

It encodes MPEG2 in hardware and decodes with a 3.4 GHZ processor. Like I said this thing is loaded. You do not need to buy one single add-on with this system, just hook it up to your TV.


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## reh523 (Feb 28, 2006)

Wow! That is a good deal. Anyone ever heard of or purchase from WeeklyCloseOuts before?

Stick in a video card that can output DVI, ad a Hi Def Tuner, and you have a nice fairly quiet Media Center PC.

I may have to get one. No rebates to boot.


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## reh523 (Feb 28, 2006)

TechDreamer said:


> I just hook it up to your TV.


No DVI onboard.............


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## dtreese (May 6, 2005)

Not a bad PC for $500.


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## btl-a4 (Dec 28, 2005)

TechDreamer said:


> It encodes MPEG2 in hardware and decodes with a 3.4 GHZ processor. Like I said this thing is loaded. You do not need to buy one single add-on with this system, just hook it up to your TV.


I never let software do the job if there is hardware available to do it.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

TechDreamer said:


> MCE
> 
> This is the best deal I have ever seen on an MCE system and Microsoft includes lifetime service. So if lifetime can be valued at $300, then the computer is only $200. I have a Tivo and an MCE and I love them both. Tivo's strength is as a straight DVR, but MCE smokes Tivo on everything else in my opinon. MCE is great for archiving DVD's and Tivo video. MCE also has great online features that actually work unlike Tivo. Just letting people know you have alternatives.


I think your claim that Microsoft will provide lifetime guide service is flawed. You don't think they are going to require you to upgrade to the latest version of MCE to keep getting updates EVER?? I'd say the lifetime of MCE 2005 is more like 2-3 years and you'll have to upgrade to a new version, not for free.

My TiVo software updates are 100% included in the lifetime service.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

btl-a4 said:


> I never let software do the job if there is hardware available to do it.


There is hardware there doing it. It's called a 3.4GHz P4.

You don't actually believe there's no software involved in the hardware you're referring to, do you?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Adam1115 said:


> I think your claim that Microsoft will provide lifetime guide service is flawed. You don't think they are going to require you to upgrade to the latest version of MCE to keep getting updates EVER?? I'd say the lifetime of MCE 2005 is more like 2-3 years and you'll have to upgrade to a new version, not for free.
> 
> My TiVo software updates are 100% included in the lifetime service.


Sooner or later updates will stop. Look at Series 1 units. "Lifetime" is referring to the guide data services necessary.


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## btl-a4 (Dec 28, 2005)

dswallow said:


> There is hardware there doing it. It's called a 3.4GHz P4.


 No there is software decoding with the processor running the software. What happens if the processor is busy with a virus scan or a windows update while your watching content? It will get annoyingly choppy. I would rather have the decoding independent of all other functions. But maybe that's just me, so if I were to buy a HTPC I would have to have a hardware decoder.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

btl-a4 said:


> No there is software decoding with the processor running the software. What happens if the processor is busy with a virus scan or a windows update while your watching content? It will get annoyingly choppy. I would rather have the decoding independent of all other functions. But maybe that's just me, so if I were to buy a HTPC I would have to have a hardware decoder.


Well, for one thing it's a hyperthreading CPU so one thread can never use more than 50% of the CPU; that'll leave much of the other half of the processor available to do housekeeping chores.

The video card still offers a certain amount of offloading of some operations, too.

All in all unless you're loading it up with things that don't belong on your media center computer, it's not going to have problems with one measely SD MPEG-2 stream.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Gateway is not one of my preferred brands.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

dswallow said:


> Well, for one thing it's a hyperthreading CPU so one thread can never use more than 50% of the CPU; that'll leave much of the other half of the processor available to do housekeeping chores.


Sorry, that's not the case. HyperThreading makes one CPU look like two to the OS, but it isn't actually two. A second thread can use some CPU resources that are going unused, but at best you'll get 15% or so out of the second thread. Most of the time it's more like 5%.

You can be fooled into thinking otherwise if you look at the Windows task manager performance monitor. It will never show each "CPU" as more than 50% loaded.


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## TechDreamer (Jan 27, 2002)

> My TiVo software updates are 100% included in the lifetime service.


I have a Series 1 with Lifetime and Tivo stopped the software updates a long time ago.


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## TechDreamer (Jan 27, 2002)

> No DVI onboard.............


So Tivo's have DVI?


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Debating whether the MCE can handle the DVR tasks is like debating whether the world is flat. The fact is MCEs do handle the DVR tasks and the world is still not flat.

All that's left to debate is how reliable (crashes/missed recordings) the MCE is, its cost, and what features it has vs. another DVR.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

I tried to order, but it says they're out of stock now.


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## filburt1 (Apr 23, 2005)

Any HTPC system that I build (would never get prebuilt) would include:

Hauppauge or other major-brand name dual-tuner PCI card, one or more cards
Pentium 4, 3.0 GHz; anything faster isn't necessary
1 GB memory, anything more isn't necessary
250 GB or more hard drive space; easily upgradable in the future to near limitless values
A video card with a weak 3D GPU but a notable one like a Geforce 6200, and most importantly, with component video output
An HTPC case with some sort of secondary display
Windows XP Media Center Edition
BeyondTV
I priced out that whole combination and it's $1000. Sounds high, but that's a bit more than the Series3 probably, and service is free. Doesn't have CableCARD support, though, as no PCI cards are sold yet that support it, although they have been announced.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

filburt1 said:


> Doesn't have CableCARD support, though, as no PCI cards are sold yet that support it, although they have been announced.


Not only are we a short time away from Cable Card PC tuners, but DirecTV PC tuners as well.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

TechDreamer said:


> I have a Series 1 with Lifetime and Tivo stopped the software updates a long time ago.


You still get guide data and your unit works fine. Do you think Microsoft will still supply guide data for free 10 years for now for MCE2005? Nope, you'll have to buy an upgraded OS. TiVo doesn't make you buy a new OS to keep getting guide data.. Series2 users have gotten MULTIPLE softwaare updates adding new functions...

Thats my point.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Adam1115 said:


> You still get guide data and your unit works fine. Do you think Microsoft will still supply guide data for free 10 years for now for MCE2005? Nope, you'll have to buy an upgraded OS. TiVo doesn't make you buy a new OS to keep getting guide data.. Series2 users have gotten MULTIPLE softwaare updates adding new functions...
> 
> Thats my point.


OK, then pay at least $6.95/mo to TiVo or $X every 4 years to MS for a new OS.

If you have a Series 1, you get no new features. If you have a series 2, you get new features (for now.)

With the MCE you get new features.

MCE wins that $ calculation hands down.


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## tazzftw (Mar 26, 2005)

Holy crap! What a great deal. 

It's a great computer, but I don't want it to be a complete replacement to the TiVo.


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## StanSimmons (Jun 10, 2000)

HDTiVo said:


> Not only are we a short time away from Cable Card PC tuners, but DirecTV PC tuners as well.


I would love to see a DTV PC Tuner.

Linky?


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

Adam1115 said:


> You still get guide data and your unit works fine. Do you think Microsoft will still supply guide data for free 10 years for now for MCE2005? Nope, you'll have to buy an upgraded OS.


What makes you think that? In my family, we have people running everything from Windows 95 to XP. No one has been forced to upgrade to get their data.

Oops - I forgot, there's a 3.1 box too 

Of course support for _new_ stuff on 3.1 and 95 is lacking, but that's true of the much newer Series 1 too.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

StanSimmons said:


> I would love to see a DTV PC Tuner.
> 
> Linky?


DirecTV Embraces Media Center



> Two implementations of DirecTV for the PC were discussed during the show--an internal tuner card a la CableCard, and a box connected externally, probably via 1394.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

How does a dual tuner stand-alone TiVo for $650 (or less) with lifetime compare to that MCE PC...?

This new dual-tuner with ethernet S2 TiVo has been spotted... *if* it's released before 4/15 or if you can find yourself a $299 Lifetime card at Best Buy (or ebay), it's a pretty sweet deal. The box retails for $349, but the street price appears closer to $300 - it's also possible a rebate will be offered.

Digg it here


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## StanSimmons (Jun 10, 2000)

> Two implementations of DirecTV for the PC were discussed during the show--an internal tuner card a la CableCard, and a box connected externally, probably via 1394.


Ahh... vaporware.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

davezatz said:


> How does a dual tuner stand-alone TiVo for $650 (or less) with lifetime compare to that MCE PC...?
> 
> This new dual-tuner with ethernet S2 TiVo has been spotted... *if* it's released before 4/15 or if you can find yourself a $299 Lifetime card at Best Buy (or ebay), it's a pretty sweet deal. The box retails for $349, but the street price appears closer to $300 - it's also possible a rebate will be offered.
> 
> Digg it here


Sounds like a press release is coming monday-ish


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

StanSimmons said:


> Ahh... vaporware.


As opposed to the Series 3 DTV model which is No-ware.

Nor is vaporware the correct word for the MCE DTV tuner card anyway.


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## tazzftw (Mar 26, 2005)

davezatz said:


> How does a dual tuner stand-alone TiVo for $650 (or less) with lifetime compare to that MCE PC...?
> 
> This new dual-tuner with ethernet S2 TiVo has been spotted... *if* it's released before 4/15 or if you can find yourself a $299 Lifetime card at Best Buy (or ebay), it's a pretty sweet deal. The box retails for $349, but the street price appears closer to $300 - it's also possible a rebate will be offered.
> 
> Digg it here


Wow, that looks great too! Duo tuner, and build in ethernet. This should hold me over. I'm intrigued at what the bundle plan will cost.


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## jmoak (Jun 20, 2000)

StanSimmons said:


> I would love to see a DTV PC Tuner.


VP1020a









too bad they're not manufactured anymore. getting harder to find...


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

jmoak said:


> VP1020a
> 
> too bad they're not manufactured anymore. getting harder to find...


That card is a DVB tuner; it'd work with free-to-air digital satellite services and with Dish Network (at least anything in the clear). DirecTV doesn't use DVB.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

dgh said:


> What makes you think that? In my family, we have people running everything from Windows 95 to XP. No one has been forced to upgrade to get their data.
> 
> Oops - I forgot, there's a 3.1 box too
> 
> Of course support for _new_ stuff on 3.1 and 95 is lacking, but that's true of the much newer Series 1 too.


What does that have to do with what we're talking about? There isn't a Media Center Edition for anything less than Windows XP, so what does you having Windows 3.1 - windows 95 have to do with getting guide data on MCE for 10 years?

And, you're STILL wrong. The highest version of Internet Explorer for Windows 95 is 5.5, so good luck with the viruses and spyware you're going to get if you try surfing the net... So much for your free updates forever...

And as far as windows 3.1, bringing that up is just plain stupid... Microsoft hasn't offered updates for 3.1 in years.

Again with the people who come to the TiVo board to argue that TiVo sucks.. The same people are probably on the Microsoft boards arguing about how TiVo is better than MCE... 

Anyway, let me know how your PC Really works when you get IR Blasting to work to control ANY cable company, Dish, Directv, OTA, etc. like the TiVo does. I paid $19 for my TiVo and $299 for lifetime.


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## jmoak (Jun 20, 2000)

dswallow said:


> That card is a DVB tuner; it'd work with free-to-air digital satellite services and with Dish Network (at least anything in the clear). DirecTV doesn't use DVB.


That card is a "multi-mode" card. (and it's not the only one, much to my surprise!)


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## reh523 (Feb 28, 2006)

Its back this weekend http://www.weeklycloseouts.com/page/en/home.aspx?task=product&itemid=20065

Not sure how long they will last. Did anyone order one last week?


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

Beat me to it, reh523. I jumped on it this time.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

reh523 said:


> Its back this weekend http://www.weeklycloseouts.com/page/en/home.aspx?task=product&itemid=20065
> 
> Not sure how long they will last. Did anyone order one last week?


Where's the tuner?


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

Here.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

bidger said:


> Here.


That's not listed as part of the product.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

It's from the Gateway page for the product.


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## TechDreamer (Jan 27, 2002)

Weekly Closeouts states Gateway Model # 832GM. This model has a tuner card according to Gateway.


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## tase2 (Sep 27, 2004)

Did anyone pull the trigger?


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## reh523 (Feb 28, 2006)

I did, I am going to slap a OTA HD tuner in it and a new video card and connect it up to my 56" Samsung DLP. My answer to OTA HD recording. 

I try to stay 2 or 3 levels below cutting edge to get the best price point. So this fits me to a tee.


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## jmoak (Jun 20, 2000)

The Op's link is gone.
Here's a new one:
Gateway Media Center PC- P4 3.0 (HT), 1GB DDR, 200GB SATA HDD, DVD±RW (Dual Layer) and Media Center - $479

btx board, P43.0, 1gig o' ram, serial ata drive, dual layer burner.... AND it's got an open pci-e slot!

Here's a review from cnet, 6/3/05
The review and gateway's data on this model say it's got a Hauppauge WinTV-PVR TV tuner card. The web page does not mention it though.

reh523, let us know how it works out.
Good Luck!


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## tase2 (Sep 27, 2004)

Yes indeed keep us posted.


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## reh523 (Feb 28, 2006)

I will keep you guys updated no problem. Give me a couple weeks. I have to order a OTA tuner and a Video card. Should I just post back to this thread or is there a better one to use. I am kind of new to this group.....


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

dswallow said:


> That card is a DVB tuner; it'd work with free-to-air digital satellite services and with Dish Network (at least anything in the clear). DirecTV doesn't use DVB.


DirecTV format is very close to DVB.
That particular card can tune DirecTV's signal, howver like any other PCI satellite tuner card, it does not hace a Conditional access system the provoder will have anything to do with, so anything you do to receive pay programming is illegal.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

Probably in HH.


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## jmoak (Jun 20, 2000)

classicsat said:


> DirecTV format is very close to DVB.
> That particular card can tune DirecTV's signal, howver like any other PCI satellite tuner card, it does not hace a Conditional access system the provoder will have anything to do with, so anything you do to receive pay programming is illegal.


Would it still be considered illegal if you had to use a valid directv access card, which would only decrypt programming you have actually paid for?

Or is it simply illegal because you're using "non-approved" hardware?


hypothetically speaking, of course.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

reh523 said:


> I will keep you guys updated no problem. Give me a couple weeks. I have to order a OTA tuner and a Video card.


I see you're in Phoenix. I was at antennaweb.org the other day and I plugged in a friend's address who lives in Tempe and I was so jealous of the selection of digital OTA stations he can receive using a small multidirectional antenna. For me, I'm going to have to install an outdoor medium directional for the one station (NBC) that's doing Hi Def in my area. I called the local ABC because when I called in Jan. I was told they would be doing HD on the cable system for the Super Bowl and then OTA in the Summer. Turns out that didn't happen. Now they're erecting a tower ~ 16 miles away and I was told OTA in the Fall. I guess that's just how it goes when you're in DMA #173.

I'm picking up the Media Center mostly to have one when Microsoft releases the tuner card for DirecTV, supposedly later this year. I thought about building one, but when I see it with most of the crucial parts for $500, I couldn't pass it up. I'm looking forward to using this and comparing it to TiVo, see how I feel about the difference. I've had the S2 SA for 9 months now and, quite frankly, if I'd have known I would be picking up the HR10-250 the month after, I probably wouldn't have bought the TCD540040. It's sluggish and the HMO features that others love so mean very little to me. I requested the "Red Trousers" video download and it never showed up. I've yet to see them announce any others past that, other than that one webcast, name escapes me at the moment. I don't know if the S3 holds any appeal to me since, as I said before, only one HD channel available OTA right now. I guess I'm just ready to try something new.


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## Atomike (Jun 12, 2005)

> Do you think Microsoft will still supply guide data for free 10 years for now for MCE2005?


Yes. They will. 
They will not send out different guide data for different versions of the software. I guess I'd like to see the linked article with facts stating otherwise. IF you can't post the link, where do you get your amazing research on the matter?
However, let's say the MCE guide data stops. Just hypothetially. With a PC, somebody somewhere will come out with something to let you get guide data from some other source. Or if not, come up with a way to use it like a VCR. PC's are infinitely configurable.

Just to put the nail in the coffin of this stupid debate, ask yourself this question. Which do you think will be around longer - MCE guide data, or Tivo guide data? Which makes most sense?

You just watch. Somebody here will post they think Tivo guide data will be around longer.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

Adam1115 said:


> What does that have to do with what we're talking about? There isn't a Media Center Edition for anything less than Windows XP, so what does you having Windows 3.1 - windows 95 have to do with getting guide data on MCE for 10 years?


Hey you're the one telling us the future plans of Microsoft. I'm only pointing out that the events of the past don't support you.



Adam1115 said:


> And, you're STILL wrong. The highest version of Internet Explorer for Windows 95 is 5.5, so good luck with the viruses and spyware you're going to get if you try surfing the net... So much for your free updates forever...


Nope. None of these machines have had a virus or spyware and all but the 3.1 machine are still browsing on a regular basis. But of course, they're PCs. If there was a problem that MS didn't want to fix in IE, they could load another browser. In fact, most of these PCs have several different browsers installed already. (There have been critical flaws in IE 5.5 that were fixed long after IE 6 came out by the way.)



Adam1115 said:


> And as far as windows 3.1, bringing that up is just plain stupid... Microsoft hasn't offered updates for 3.1 in years.


Nice little attack but pointless. Tivo has far newer machines that haven't been updated. Both can keep working as long as people want to use them though.



Adam1115 said:


> TiVo doesn't make you buy a new OS to keep getting guide data..


And so far, over a much longer time, MS hasn't forced anyone I know to buy a new OS to get data either. Either TiVo or MS could change that, but your assertion that MS and TiVo are fundamentally different in this respect doesn't seem to be backed up by history.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Atomike said:


> Yes. They will.
> They will not send out different guide data for different versions of the software. I guess I'd like to see the linked article with facts stating otherwise. IF you can't post the link, where do you get your amazing research on the matter?
> However, let's say the MCE guide data stops. Just hypothetially. With a PC, somebody somewhere will come out with something to let you get guide data from some other source. Or if not, come up with a way to use it like a VCR. PC's are infinitely configurable.
> 
> ...


What are you talking about? No Microsoft doesn't say they will provide lifetime and they don't say they won't. There's no 'amazing research' saying that they won't, but when I pay for TiVo lifetime, I am paying for guide data for the lifetime of my TiVo. TiVo DOES say they will provide guide data for the life of the unit, MS does NOT.

It is my OPINION based on how Microsoft has handled previous OS's that at some point they will not offer updates for it and you will have to buy a new version of MCE.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

Adam1115 said:


> but when I pay for lifetime, I am paying for guide data for the lifetime of my TiVo. They DO say they will provide guide data for the life of the unit, MS does NOT.


I suggest a careful reading of the agreement. Among other things, you'll find clauses that the service can end at any time and can have any aspect added, removed or changed at any time. You're paying for a lifetime of whatever they chose to provide or not provide. We lifetime customers are allowed to cancel, without refund, if we dislike any changes.

I signed up for lifetime 6 years ago, and it has worked out well, even though software updates ended years ago. But there's no way to tell what I'll be getting in the future. Still, I think I've gotten my money's worth. But in a couple of weeks there will be no TiVo lifetime option. Free data for some time not proven to be infinite vs $12.95/month for some time also not proven to be infinite - the former is sounding pretty good for my next PVR.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

dgh said:


> Hey yoe tha one frontin' us tha future plans of Microsoft. Im only point'n out tizzle tha events of tha past dont support you.
> 
> Nope. None of these machines have had a virus or spyware n all but tha 3.1 machine is still brows'n on a regular basis . Chill as I take you on a trip. But of course, theyre PCs . Ill slap tha taste out yo mouf. If there was a problem thizzat MS didnt want ta fix in IE, they could load anotha gangsta ta help you tap dat ass. In fact, mizzost of these PCs have several different browsa installed already. (There have been critical flaws in IE 5.5 T-H-to-tha-izzat were fixed long afta IE 6 came out by tha way.)
> 
> And so far, over a mizzy rappa time, MS hizzasnt forced anyone I know ta buy a new OS ta git dizzy eitha. Eitha TiVo or MS could change that, but yo assertion that MS n TiVo is fundamentally different in this respect doesnt seem ta be backed up by history.


Well, now that you say it that way, maybe your right...


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

Adam1115 said:


> Well, now that you say it that way, maybe your right...


Messa thinks that's not cool.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

greg_burns said:


> Messa thinks that's not cool.


In other words, I disagree that a TiVo is more expensive to own, but dgh makes some good points.

That and was playing with gizoogle at the same time..


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

Adam1115 said:


> That and was playing with gizoogle at the same time..


Wizzell since you showed me sum-m sum-m nizzle Ill let it slide.  Peace.


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## reh523 (Feb 28, 2006)

jmoak said:


> reh523, let us know how it works out.
> Good Luck!


So far so good. Unit was delivered next day (Tuesday). Quality unit all around. Very solid build and very quiet (thanks to the BTX form factor). I purchased a new PCIX video card for it (EVGA Gforce 7600 GX).

Video looks good on the 56" Samsung DLP. Tuner and program guide are very good. Very easy to use. Wife likes it.... I have the HD OTA tuner on order for the real test. I wanted a stable box to test from though thats why I waited.

As a side note I heard from Weeklycloseouts and they are going to have the Gateway Media Center again soon. And if anyone cares they ship out of Chandler AZ....

Till next week.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

reh523 said:


> So far so good. Unit was delivered next day (Tuesday). Quality unit all around. Very solid build and very quiet (thanks to the BTX form factor). I purchased a new PCIX video card for it (EVGA Gforce 7600 GX).


I really doubt it's "PCIX". I think you're talking about PCI Express aka PCIe (or a few other acronyms). PCI-X is something TOTALLY different.

PCI-X slots are the long green ones at http://www.techweb.com/encyclopedia/defineterm.jhtml?term=PCI-X.

You can see some PCIe slots at http://www.gen-x-pc.com/pci_basic.htm.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

Thing is really heavy. Unlike reh523, I haven't hooked it up yet. I think I'm going to have to get a wider and taller stand for it and I'd like to get a UPS for it. Just wish I knew when that tuner card for DirecTV that Microsoft is developing is coming out and I'll be p*ssed if it's for Vista and not backwards compatible to MCE.


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## reh523 (Feb 28, 2006)

bidger said:


> I knew when that tuner card for DirecTV that Microsoft is developing is coming out and I'll be p*ssed if it's for Vista and not backwards compatible to MCE.


I have heard "rumors" it will only be in new machines preloaded and built with Vista (like cable cards). But that is how MCE started out and as it matured you only have to purchase a mouse or something and get the O.S.


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## reh523 (Feb 28, 2006)

cwerdna said:


> I really doubt it's "PCIX". I think you're talking about PCI Express aka PCIe (or a few other acronyms). PCI-X is something TOTALLY different.


My bad.... The whole new PCI is getting confusing. It is a PCIe video card. I new it was express I put in X instead of e 

I still remember ISA 8 and 16 bit slots..... We have 4 types of PCI slots 1,4,8,16 currently...


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## msaeger (Oct 4, 2002)

I probably would try a MCE machine if it did suggestions like Tivo. I also don't like that they don't buffer tv unless you are watching tv.

I have been thinking it would be nice to get one just to watch internet video on though so 500 would be a good deal for that.


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## reh523 (Feb 28, 2006)

msaeger said:


> they don't buffer tv unless you are watching tv.


I don't understand why would you buffer tv if you aren't watching tv? You can buffer it without watching it, I think they call it recording it...

By the way it is back at www.weeklycloseouts.com


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

reh523 said:


> I don't understand why would you buffer tv if you aren't watching tv? You can buffer it without watching it, I think they call it recording it...[/url]


(Unless Tivo isn't receiving signal, is unplugged or is installing updates/booting) Tivo is always recording and always playing back. It's actually a GREAT feature that even though Tivo might not be explicility recording a suggestion or something you told it to record, it's still buffering live TV.

I've had it happen many times that after I exited from watching something else or turned on my TV that I found that Tivo happened to be tuned to a show that I was actually interested in and didn't know about. If I see that, then I hit record so that it starts recording and includes what's in the buffer. If I catch this within 30 minutes of the beginning of the show, I've got the whole thing.


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## Atomike (Jun 12, 2005)

Yes - as an added bonus for this feature which hardly anyone ever uses, we all get dramatically shorter hard-drive life. What a deal!! It's genius!


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

Atomike, that's simply not true.

Many people use the feature. It doesn't decrease hard drive life measurably.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Atomike said:


> Yes - as an added bonus for this feature which hardly anyone ever uses, we all get dramatically shorter hard-drive life. What a deal!! It's genius!


huh , all my TiVo hard drives are the original one it came with
some people have S1 with 6 year old hard drives in them.

what dataset are you using on this assertion


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## msaeger (Oct 4, 2002)

> I've had it happen many times that after I exited from watching something else or turned on my TV that I found that Tivo happened to be tuned to a show that I was actually interested in and didn't know about. If I see that, then I hit record so that it starts recording and includes what's in the buffer. If I catch this within 30 minutes of the beginning of the show, I've got the whole thing.


Exactly 

Also I don't care about HDD life especially on a MCE machine because it would be easily replaced.

My original 14 hour tivo still works so I think the HDD has lasted long enough.


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## Atomike (Jun 12, 2005)

The data set I'm using - physics.
A hard drive is a physical device with moving parts. Having those parts move creates heat & wear. When they do not move, they do not create heat & wear. Many Tivos last a long time with the same original hard drive. Others do not. I guess I'd ask the folks here whether their Tivo drives are lasting, on average, longer than their computer hard drives which are not running 24/7.

I guess I'd simply like to know if a constantly running hard drive will likely last longer than a non-constantly running drive. 
Is the art of logic dead?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Atomike said:


> I guess I'd ask the folks here whether their Tivo drives are lasting, on average, longer than their computer hard drives which are not running 24/7.


The vast majority of hard drive problems don't show up until you power them off and then on again.

I've generally kept all my computers at home and all the computers at the office running 24/7 for at least the last 11 1/2 years and there's nothing I'd consider abnormal about their reliability. There's probably even a couple computers among those 30 or 40 that are 7 or 8 years old with all-original peripherals including hard drives.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

Finally got around to setting this up last night and other than having a bit of a loop in setup, it went well. I really am impressed by what this thing is capable of doing. I think a 3.0 Ghz CPU is much better situated to handle online content than a TiVo. I was worried about it presenting proper aspect ratio, but it displays 4:3 content unstretched. I haven't set it up for HD content because I'll have to install an outdoor antenna to pick up the channels available to me. Nice to know that by adding a card, I can do HD content though. I'll have to add a sound card for optical audio as well. Originally I was going to do a DIY DVR, but I can live with one I only have to mod a bit.


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## Oknarf (Oct 30, 2003)

bidger said:


> Finally got around to setting this up last night and other than having a bit of a loop in setup, it went well. I really am impressed by what this thing is capable of doing. I think a 3.0 Ghz CPU is much better situated to handle online content than a TiVo. I was worried about it presenting proper aspect ratio, but it displays 4:3 content unstretched. I haven't set it up for HD content because I'll have to install an outdoor antenna to pick up the channels available to me. Nice to know that by adding a card, I can do HD content though. I'll have to add a sound card for optical audio as well. Originally I was going to do a DIY DVR, but I can live with one I only have to mod a bit.


Conversely I have my MCE setup for HD only. As I still have D* at this point and am waiting to switch when the Series3 comes out. MCE is really nice. Not Tivo, but ... I now use one unit for DVD playback and HD Tivo'ing and it's DVI'd into my 50 inch HD TV, and I can browse and download video as well. All in all its not completely crappy.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

Oknarf said:


> Conversely I have my MCE setup for HD only. As I still have D* at this point and am waiting to switch when the Series3 comes out. MCE is really nice. Not Tivo, but ... I now use one unit for DVD playback and HD Tivo'ing and it's DVI'd into my 50 inch HD TV, and I can browse and download video as well. All in all its not completely crappy.


Is it true that you need two cards to get HD with MCE? A regular tuner card + the HD one?


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## Oknarf (Oct 30, 2003)

greg_burns said:


> Is it true that you need two cards to get HD with MCE? A regular tuner card + the HD one?


Yes. You need 1 with hardware mpeg2 and a separate hdtv card.


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## cynthetiq (Mar 13, 2004)

I don't have to worry about spyware, virus, adware, updates, security flaws, on my Tivo. 

I open the box, plug it in, and it works. When it breaks, I buy a new one.

PC, not only do I have to worry about all the above, but when it breaks, I have to fix it.


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## Morpheus101 (Jan 14, 2006)

I found this Dual TV tuner for MCE at NVidia. Its a new product and I'm having a problem finding it anywhere except on their website.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

I like this. I wondered about HD through Akimbo and a link with HDNet is a good start.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

cynthetiq said:


> I don't have to worry about spyware, virus, adware, updates, security flaws, on my Tivo.
> 
> I open the box, plug it in, and it works. When it breaks, I buy a new one.
> 
> PC, not only do I have to worry about all the above, but when it breaks, I have to fix it.


Um... you do have to worry about Tivo updates, in the fact that they have in the past been less than stellar and have broken/are breaking basic Tivo functionality.

Tivo is also a spyware/adware device, as it records every key stroke you type and there is that infamous yellow star and pop-up ads. Granted, it's not malicious, but it's there.

Also, people fix a PC because they can! If the PC video start to go bad, you can replace just the video card without having to buy a brand new PC. Of course, you CAN buy a new PC -- no one is stopping you. You can also fix/customize a PC to suit your specific needs. In fact, many people have replaced or upgraded their hard drives in their Tivos and added their own software to them.

And the fact that the Tivo connects to the Internet means by definition it is vulnerable to security flaws. Even my simple Linksys router (which runs Linux) had a security flaw in it. You should be a tiny bit worried.

Yes, all of these things are less worrisome in Tivo than on a WMPC, but that is the price/performance decision that everyone will make for themselves.


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## russwong (Sep 17, 2002)

I think it's all a matter of who the target audience is. If I was looking for something for my parents, Tivo would be the way to go. I was an early adopter of tivo, because I'm a technical computer type of person, so back 5 years ago, Tivo was cutting edge and pretty dang awesome...

In the past 5 years, I added a network card to the Series 1, upgraded the hard drives, transferred the lifetime to a Series 2 and upgraded that hard drive. I built my first Media Center with MCE 2004, then upgraded that to 2005, connected the xbox via the Media center extender function, built a second media center with 2005 and an HD Tuner and now have an xbox 360 that streams the HD content that I record on my Media center.

I don't have virus issues, stability issues, crashing issues with either of my media center units. The problems I did have were because of short comings of the capture card manufacturer, but I have work arounds... As a matter of fact, my analog mce is also my webserver, my email server, and the kitchen desktop that everyone in the house uses. (Knock on wood, no stability issues at all.)

I think if it's built right, it will work. This weekend was a sad part in my life, because I finally turned off my series 1 and now only have my series 2 and 2 media centers (1 analog only and 1 HD only). I will keep the series 2 since it has lifetime, but I'm no longer investing effort or money into the Tivo product, because Tivo hasn't kept up with my needs. I was loyal and touted teh greatness of Tivo, but I've been watching HD for over 3 years and I had to find another solution. So the series 2 is my other backup to my MCE. HD is primary, MCE analog is secondary, and Tivo is third (and the good thing is, I know that my tivo will be there...)

Is MCE cheaper then Tivo? Probably not, once you add in all the things you want, but with that comes added features, like HD, dual tuners, it's a computer if you want it to be, etc...

Is MCE better then Tivo? Probably not, but it's good enough and continues to get better and it can do things my Tivo just hasn't been able to do for the last 2 years.

I view Tivo is like a good friend who has stuck by me through the years, but still wants to play with hot wheels, while I want to drive real cars. I'm surprised other Tivo fans don't feel the same way or have experienced this issue...

Is there a market for a Sony Series 1 with network card and 240 gigs of hard drive space, with no service....


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## reh523 (Feb 28, 2006)

Is MCE cheaper then Tivo? Probably not, once you add in all the things you want, but with that comes added features, like HD, dual tuners, it's a computer if you want it to be, etc...

Is MCE better then Tivo? Probably not, but it's good enough and continues to get better and it can do things my Tivo just hasn't been able to do for the last 2 years.

Russ you are 100% correct. I did not buy the box as a $500 replacement for tivo. I bought it as a foundation to build on. I have added $120 for a video card $100 for a HD Tuner and $60 for a MPEG 2 decoder. I knew when i bought the PC I would have to add those. The box has been very stable (Intel CPU, Intel chipset and Intel motherboard). I have not scrapped one piece from it (I de-installed some software and added a hard drive to increase storage space).

All in all it is a great product. The video card I purchased will work with Vista so I am ready for that when it comes out (after it is stable).

One of the best pluses is to remote desktop to it from the office or hotel and set up or change a recording (my wife loves that). Streaming HD content through CAT5 is very cool also. MC extenders are very cool for the other TV's in the house. Need more HD, add another tuner.... Most of the HD stuff I watch is OTA anyway. I would tale The MCE PC over the SA8300 I had for a month...

For my Mom it would have to be Tivo or the cable companys PVR. I would never build a MCE for someone else and try to support it. For my house it is great. But I like to play with PC's.

When you are watching HD on a 56" Samsung DLP it is hard to believe it is a windows PC driving it (Media Player).


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

If I got/made a MCE box, it would be run into and controlled by my Xbox 360. So i'd get the HD capabilitie out from that. But I'd still need a tuner card in for HD sources.

I have wondered what speed CPU you would need in that box since the 360 would be processing the HD to display it. Assuming I wasn't recording and processing the HD content on the computer itself, it shouldnt need to be that powerful should it?


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## bestdealr (Apr 18, 2006)

Just noticed that they have 2pcs left!! 
Better hurry!


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Atomike said:


> The data set I'm using - physics.
> A hard drive is a physical device with moving parts. Having those parts move creates heat & wear. When they do not move, they do not create heat & wear. Many Tivos last a long time with the same original hard drive. Others do not. I guess I'd ask the folks here whether their Tivo drives are lasting, on average, longer than their computer hard drives which are not running 24/7.
> 
> I guess I'd simply like to know if a constantly running hard drive will likely last longer than a non-constantly running drive.
> Is the art of logic dead?


uummm - you need to think about the physics of electrical engineering and startup stress as well.

My hard drives in my TiVo would be starting up at least 5 times a day with my recording habits. I think any rest factor from the hard drive being stopped would be overshadowed by that startup stress. Also add the stress to the power supply of dealing with that startup power need. those are not top of the line power supplies in a TiVo

With the record buffer the hard drive in the TiVo works at a steady constant pace.
to apply logic you must first fill in all the facts


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## Leon WIlkinson (Feb 13, 2000)

One more thanks too me. 

I'm just getting it for a computer, this should work great.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

reh523 said:


> (I de-installed some software and added a hard drive to increase storage space).


I uninstalled Norton, Macafee, and AOL and installed my own personal preference for anti-virus and spyware detection.

Did you add another SATA drive, reh523, or did you use PATA? Also, did you disable Hyperthreading in the BIOS?


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## russwong (Sep 17, 2002)

I actually have 2 different HD cards in my media center. The MyHD130 and the Fusion. The MyHD130 doesn't work in Media center the interface of the PC, but I use it to record and then use the xbox360 to stream it from that computer. The fusion works an OTA tuner within the MCE interface. I'm doing QAM recording for HD, so I just use the MCE interface for analog and the xbox360 to stream. They both have hardware encoding, so it doesn't require much to record. There is a thread on AVS for people use use the MyHD on really really slow machines, but I haven't tried. I'm doing 3 capture cards on a P4 3Gig.



rkester said:


> If I got/made a MCE box, it would be run into and controlled by my Xbox 360. So i'd get the HD capabilitie out from that. But I'd still need a tuner card in for HD sources.
> 
> I have wondered what speed CPU you would need in that box since the 360 would be processing the HD to display it. Assuming I wasn't recording and processing the HD content on the computer itself, it shouldnt need to be that powerful should it?


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## Leon WIlkinson (Feb 13, 2000)

I Think my current computer which will be my Favorite computer,  sent out a charge and blew a transformer or what ever that made one hell of*BOOOMMM*  Has soon has I posted it the power went.


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## reh523 (Feb 28, 2006)

bidger said:


> I uninstalled Norton, Macafee, and AOL and installed my own personal preference for anti-virus and spyware detection.
> 
> Did you add another SATA drive, reh523, or did you use PATA? Also, did you disable Hyperthreading in the BIOS?


My bad, I also uninstalled Norton, Macafee and AOL. I added another SATA drive (400Gig). I use it to record to (I had it from my SA8300 days). If you do that, make sure you format it with a large block size under NTFS.

No I did not disable Hyperthreading in the BIOS. I have no stuttering issues with live tv or playback. I don't use the DVD player.

Do you have any stuttering?

I have recorded two shows at once and played back HD w/o any issues. But I think watching live HD is hard on the CPU.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

reh523 said:


> Do you have any stuttering?


I've noticed a bit of skipping on two .avi files I played, not on the Live TV feed.

Re. hyperthreading, I came across a post on the AVS Forums that said if you're using a MCE PC, you should disable it in the BIOS because it's unnecessary. I haven't done it yet though.


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## BigFarnz (Feb 24, 2002)

I have been a Tivo owner since the Series 1 came out. At first, I thought it would be a glorified vcr, but over a couple of days of playing with it, I realized it would be much more. The best part was that it was extremely user friendly for my wife to use. I upgraded to a series 2 when they came out and have been using it ever since up until last week when I took it out of my home theater solution,
Three months ago I purchase the Gateway MCE that is being referenced in this thread from another company. Upon setting it up, everything worked great. In fact, I was surprised that something made by Micro$oft could work so flawlessly out of the box. I added a second tuner and loved the fact that I could watch one show and record another, or watch 2 shows and watch something recorded(both of my Tivo's were standalone  so this was a new concept for me) Actually, you can add up to 4 tuners with a registry hack, something the Tivo can't do. The MCE can pull videos from shared folders on your network in real time. I never liked the Tivo desktop where I had to "push" items to the Tivo before watching them. I know I could start watching the video before it was completely loaded, but I could not jump to the middle like I can with the MCE. I have access to my pictures and my music(although the music interface is the worst if you have a large library). So here come some cool features, Online content from VH1, MTV, ESPN, and more. These play streaming content from the internet to your tv, something Tivo has been promising for years. Netflix ring a bell? If you want to rent movies online you can with MCE. TVtonic allows me to subscribe to video rss feeds and watch from the comfort of my recliner without having to download the file, transcode it, and push it to my Tivo. 
The only complaint I can find with the MCE is that I did have some problems after trying to add some third party applications. A simple system restore fixed the problem. 
So that brings me to this point: I loved the way the MCE worked so much, I ordered another one for my bedroom. I have officially retired my Tivo due to the MCE offering so much more. I forgot to mention that on a slow tv night, we will sit with the wireless keyboard and watch stupid videos or google video through the web browser on our tv. Tivo really needs to start focussing on providing more options to the end users. Have you heard of Orb networks? I have this on my MCE and I can access anything on my MCE from any internet connection, including my cell phone in real time. I posted a suggestion a while back hoping that Tivo might implement a piece of software similar to Orb just to stream video from a computer to the Tivo, as all of the encoding is being done on the computer, the Tivo would just need to be able to play the stream. Oh, and I seem to remember when i bought my series 2 that I had to fight for my rebate even though I bought it straight from the Tivo website and then I payed to be a beta tester for the Home Media Option, something they give away for free now. I know, I know, I could have called and complained and gotten some kind of compensation, but I didn;t. I thought maybe since I had been a loyal customer from the beginning, they might actually refund me without asking. I'll save that rant for another time.
Bottom line is this: If you are happy with your Tivo and what it can do, keep using it. If you want a little more functionality and have some time to troubleshoot from time to time, check out a MCE. Sorry for the long post.......I;m usually just a lurker, but I felt I had to respond to this post.


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## TechDreamer (Jan 27, 2002)

Most Tivo users really have no idea how much MCE offers.
If you really like Tivo, you will like MCE.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

I just got an email that TheGreenButton.com has finally gotten a makeover. Anybody try it out yet? Is it any better? That site was actrocious before.


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## reh523 (Feb 28, 2006)

greg_burns said:


> I just got an email that TheGreenButton.com has finally gotten a makeover. Anybody try it out yet? Is it any better? That site was actrocious before.


Thanks for the heads up... I spent a few minutes in there it is a lot faster and the search has improved a lot.....

Those were the worst things about the site before (loading slllooowww ads all the time).

There is a lot of good stuff in there......


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## Leon WIlkinson (Feb 13, 2000)

I bought the 832GM computer and the HD would not boot. I called gateway and said it was out of warranty, it would cost me $25 for help with HD, so I opened the built in cup holder, oops wrong drive.  

I had to connect a red cable from the YD to the mother board, is that the SATA cable? 

Now if I go to upgrade a TiVo on this computer, I would need a IDE cable which would connect to the bottom left connector on the mother board? Would I need to setup anything in the bios to get the IDE connector to work?


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

Leon WIlkinson said:


> I bought the 832GM computer and the HD would not boot. I called gateway and said it was out of warranty, it would cost me $25 for help with HD, so I opened the built in cup holder, oops wrong drive.
> 
> I had to connect a red cable from the YD to the mother board, is that the SATA cable?
> 
> Now if I go to upgrade a TiVo on this computer, I would need a IDE cable which would connect to the bottom left connector on the mother board? Would I need to setup anything in the bios to get the IDE connector to work?


Your computer has SATA and it looks like you may only have 1 IDE connector (a master and slave). That is usually not enough to do a Tivo upgrade drive with. 

http://support.gateway.com/s/PC/R/4660/4660nv.shtml

You would need at least 2 IDE connectors (4 connections). 
1 for the IDE cd rom
1 for the original Tivo drive 
1 for the the new Tivo drive (or whatever FAT drive you are backing up the OS to)

Now if you buy an Instantcake cd you may be ok.  
1 for the IDE cd rom
1 for the new Tivo drive


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## Leon WIlkinson (Feb 13, 2000)

greg_burns said:


> Your computer has SATA and it looks like you may only have 1 IDE connector (a master and slave). That is usually not enough to do a Tivo upgrade drive with.
> 
> Now if you buy an Instantcake cd you may be ok.
> 1 for the IDE cd rom
> 1 for the new Tivo drive


Thank you

Yes, that was the plan, less chance of erasing my HD.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

How big a drive are you going to get? If you go over 254GB (127x2) drive you may want to read up on TPIP command for initialzing the proper swap size. Check out the upgrade forum for more info.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

Leon WIlkinson said:


> I bought the 832GM computer and the HD would not boot. I called gateway and said it was out of warranty


Whoa! There was mention in the WeeklyCloseoutDeals ad that the unit comes with a 1 year warranty. Did you contact them about this?


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