# TiVo Software version 16



## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

I searched for this here and on Google but I found no results for it.

So in digging for information about new Advance Format 4K drives and using them in TiVos I was digging into the TiVo Linux kernel information.

http://www.tivo.com/linux/

We have a S1, S2, S3, & S4 so I know what software versions to expect. Well I noticed version 16 available on the TiVo Linux page so I opened it up and started prodding.

This is Linux kernel 2.6.31, I'm not exactly sure yet what the version 14 runs as it's not as apparent in the code as this version 16.

One of the biggest changes I'm seeing is all of the Broadcom 740x CPU code has been removed which is the CPU in the S3 devices. Also the Gen06D device data has been removed as well (S3 as well).

The Gen07 code is untouched but now there's a Gen07C & Gen07P set of folders that are mostly empty. Lots of updates to the base kernel code for SATA, PCI, CPU handlers, USB, 2D video, etc type of stuff you expect to see in new kernels.

Digging into the TiVo specific stuff there's some references to GraphicsSurfacePoolSize for all the existing Gen07 devices I see across multiple other code sections. Seems to be a 60MB region of the 512mb now being set aside for specific graphics reasons.

Then in those TiVo config files is more references to the Gen07C & Gen07P which their real names are Gen07C-Gimbal & Gen07P-Picasso which deeper in their info shows they have "/* Second bmem region: Cable Modem */" so I'm betting these are the TiVo Premiere Q & it's streaming box. I'm betting the Gimbal is the Q because it has more memory allocated to the Cable portion than the Picasso. The Gimbal name for the Q makes sense too as a gimbal is "a pivoted support that allows the rotation of an object about a single axis (WikiPedia)" in essence it's the point everything else is based on where Picasso, duh, is a painter showing what he sees (non-tuner TiVo).

It's nice to see some good movement forward on the kernel level at least. Of note the line in the kernel denoting the 2nd CPU is disabled on boot is gone now too. I had stumbled on it in the old code but now I can't find it again, but I'll keep hunting.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

Isn't 16 the VirginTiVo? ETA - No, Virgin is 15, premiere is 16, right?


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Right now the Premiere is still at 14.8c. I can tell you that 14.9 is testing (playing Reversi). I've also seen 14.8.5. Oh, and version 20. (!) I haven't seen 16... maybe it runs on those TVs?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Series 3 has been out for almost five years now.


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

SullyND said:


> Isn't 16 the VirginTiVo? ETA - No, Virgin is 15, premiere is 16, right?


My Premiere (non-XL) I've had for about a year is running v14. I did a search online for TiVo software versions and nothing came up for version 16 unless an owner of one of those other devices wants to chime in. That's why I posted because I'm unsure, it very well might be.

Looking at the Wiki for the Virgin ones it lists they are made by Cisco and the code for version 16 does have references to Cisco also directly in relation with the Gimbal/Picasso names.


```
kTivoConfigBoardIDCiscoBase    = 0x08000000, /**< 0x080000 Start of Cisco range */
    kTivoConfigBoardIDGimbal       = 0x08000100, /**< 0x080001 Compass Gimbal */
    kTivoConfigBoardIDPicasso      = 0x08000200, /**< 0x080002 Picasso (Compass/Gimbal derivative) */
    kTivoConfigBoardIDCiscoMax     = 0x08FFFFFF, /**< 0x08FFFF End of Cisco range */
```
Maybe the TiVo Premiere Q is based off of the same Cisco platform as the Virgin box since it is going to be the the cable company version of TiVo. However from reading I saw Virgin dropped the Cisco boxes for Samsung boxes.


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

Twitter is always a good source of info it seems.

http://twitter.com/#!/rjainnpu/status/24328543462752256



> @rjainnpu
> Rajeev jain
> 
> Dec 2010
> ...


The Virgin TiVo was released in Mar/Apr 2011 so it's possible this QA tester at TiVo could have been working on a Virgin box. However a -2 testing phase sounds rather early in the development cycle, like in the alpha stages and it also means people at TiVo USA were QA-ing Virgin boxes which they did the development themselves on. I looked for the Virgin TiVo source code but I can't find the version 15 stuff online. If they didn't change any of the core Kernel code from the version 14 software they wouldn't have to post it.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

aaronwt said:


> Series 3 has been out for almost five years now.


ok thanks


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

I just now moved my S4 off of a SD TV to an HD TV so I'm just now experiencing how suck the HD menus are in terms of speed (I love what they offer in terms of functionality though).

There doesn't seem to have been any major advancements in terms of S4 performance in a while so if they really are working on version 16 that handles the new S4 Q, S4 Elite, & S4 Expanders it lends itself to the lack of version 14 development.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

The Premiere/Q/Elite/Preview evidently share the same code string and basic hardware platform. v14.

15 is Virgin. Cisco.

16 is a mystery. Does anybody know if the Virgin boxes have built-in docsis? That'd explain the cable modem thing... But also, Virgin is switching manufacturing from Cisco to Samsung.

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/41978/samsung-virgin-media-tivo-box

Did Tivo make any other MSO announcements recently?

I dunno. Interesting though. Could be a lot of things.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Thanks for the info! I had totally forgotten that the code was posted ... might be fun to browse.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> The Premiere/Q/Elite/Preview evidently share the same code string and basic hardware platform. v14.
> 
> 15 is Virgin. Cisco.
> 
> ...


I wonder if 16 might be the Samsung code like BigJim mentioned. 

TiVo did recently announce that Samsung would be replacing Cisco for the hardware on Virgin.

Also they did recently announce a partnership with Ono in Spain.

Could one of them be possibly related to the Preview though I guess it could just be stripped Premiere code?


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

The version 16 code doesn't make reference to any Samsung items in it as far as I could tell. I don't think they would jump version #'s just for a base hardware change like that, where most of the big changes in version # are the main feature sets.


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## RangerOne (Dec 30, 2006)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Did Tivo make any other MSO announcements recently?


Grande in Texas
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/gr...ext-generation-whole-home-solution-2011-08-24

However, reading the announcement it sound like they are going to use the current Premiere hardware


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Does anybody know if the Virgin boxes have built-in docsis? That'd explain the cable modem thing...


Yes. The Virgin boxes have their own dedicated cable modem integrated.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

But they're still using a 512 Byte sector kernel?


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

unitron said:


> But they're still using a 512 Byte sector kernel?


The kernel in this version 16 is 2.6.31 and 4K sectors was added in 2.6.34 so nope, no support it seems.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

scandia101 said:


> ok thanks


I think he was replying to something I said that I edited out.


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## LoREvanescence (Jun 19, 2007)

hmm, that's all rather interesting. 

I hope this means we have some excitement to look forward too with tivo


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

Realistically I think the biggest feature is going to be the streaming capabilities required for the TiVo Premire/Elite/Q to stream to the new DVR-less TiVo Preview extenders. The device needs to handle 2 HD streams (4 on Q/Elite) being written, 1 download being written, 1 local HD stream being read, and up to 3 HD streams being read to Preview devices. Streaming will be significantly different code wise than the current MRV which is a transfer. The fixes/updates to the SATA code in the kernel may be beneficial to the new higher demands being needed.

I completely forgot to mention this before but the files inside of the source zip were written out on 2011.08.22 so the posting to the website was very recently. TiVo S4 version 14 is running 2.6.18 right now, this new version 16 is going to be 2.6.31 it seems.


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

What going from kernel 2.6.18 to 2.6.31 means to us (this is a quick review of the main feature changes in kernel versions I thought would be beneficial).


2.6.19
EXT4 first implementation 
Several power saving additions
IPV6 added

2.6.20
Nothing stands out

2.6.21
EXT4 fixes
IPV6 fixes
SATA enhancements
USB enhancements

2.6.22
802.11 (WiFi) complete rewrite
UBI added - wear-levelling support for flash storage

2.6.23
new process scheduler, CFS (Completely Fair Scheduler)
On-demand read-ahead - gives measurable gains in SQL systems
EXT4 fixes
MIPS architecture updates
SATA enhancements
USB enhancements

2.6.24
CFS enhancements
Anti-fragmentation - prevents memory fragmentation on systems not rebooted every day
MIPS architecture updates
SATA enhancements

2.6.25
Latencytop - debugging subsystem specifically designed to diagnose latency issues (audio & video)
EXT4 fixes
MIPS SMT enhancements (Symetric Multi Threading)

2.6.26
KGDB - full kernel level debugger, should greatly enhance debugging
SMP enhancements (Symetric Multi Processing)
EXT4 fixes
SATA enhancements

2.6.27
EXT4 enhancements
Multiqueue networking - adds support for network devices with multiple queues (802.11n uses this heavily)
Voltage and Current Regulator - first implementation to allow direct power control on the fly

2.6.28
EXT4 is labeled stable and made available as EXT3 replacement
GEM Memory Manager for GPU memory - complete rewrite of the graphics memory management system for the first time since the mid 90s, provides upto 50% performance enhancement in video oriented tasks
IO CPU affinity - allows CPU core prioritization on multiple core systems providing 20~40% IO enhancement 
MIPS architecture enhancements
SSD enhancements 

2.6.29
Kernel Modesetting - brings a lot of external graphics mode setting code into the kernel simplifying tasks and making them perform better
EXT4 enahncements
802.11 enhancements

2.6.30
Fastboot - (thanks to Intel) makes large portions of the kernel boot process asyncrhonous so they run in tandem instead of waiting on each other, can provide significant boot time speedup
Filesystems performance improvements
EXT4 enhancements

2.6.31
USB3 support added
Improve desktop interactivity under memory pressure - upto 50% increase in performance in relation to memory faults on memory limited systems
Performance Counters - adds kernel level performance counters to provide extremely detailed analysis
EXT4 enhancements
MIPS architecture enhancements


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I think I understood some of that lol.

It is cool to read and see potential improvements we could be seeing.


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## rjspring (Jul 16, 2008)

Guess my Tivo HDs are the best they are going to get until I upgrade to a premier unit...


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

That's a very safe assumption as all of the S3 specific code has been removed from this version 16 code and we never got version 14 either.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

brentil said:


> That's a very safe assumption as all of the S3 specific code has been removed from this version 16 code and we never got version 14 either.


Any speculation as to when we may see a version 16 release?


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

sbiller said:


> Any speculation as to when we may see a version 16 release?


These are the facts we know.


This source was posted in the last 2 weeks
TiVo Q & Preview were announced for release this year (06/13/2011)
"TiVo plans to make both new products available to its cable operator partners later this year." [LINK]

TiVo Preview is announced to work with TiVo Premiere (non-elite 06/13/2011)
"It provides the same HD user experience as the TiVo Premiere and Premiere Q and fully integrates an operator's linear and Video on Demand content with broadband content and application choices, and *immediate streaming access to DVR content from a TiVo Premiere* or Premiere Q. Similar to Premiere Q," [LINK]

TiVo Elite was announced for this year (09/07/2011)
"The TiVo Premiere Elite will be available by the end of the year through tivo.com, authorized home theater installers and Magnolia stores nationwide." [LINK]

A Q&A tester posted testing these products back in Jan 2011
S3 updates & betas seem to have completely spun down for features
S4 software updates seem to have spun down for features

So we can make a couple assumptions.

TiVo has the beta of this software seeded to testers along with Elite/Preview devices already
The Premiere is getting this new version to support the new Preview devices along with the statement that all devices share the same experience as the Preview
All 3 devices will be out before the end of the year
Therefore the Premiere should be getting this software before those devices hit to seed the support for them as well as working through issues


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## RangerOne (Dec 30, 2006)

brentil said:


> e kernel may be beneficial to the new higher demands being needed.
> 
> I completely forgot to mention this before but the files inside of the source zio were written out on 2011.08.22 so the posting to the website was very recently. TiVo S4 version 14 is running 2.6.18 right now, this new version 16 is going to be 2.6.31 it seems.


I've seen an TiVo Premiere Elite in person and it was running 14.9


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

RangerOne said:


> I've seen an TiVo Premiere Elite in person and it was running 2.6.19


Not to hijack the thread, but can you post any more details / observations on the Elite?


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## muzzymate (Sep 2, 2004)

brentil said:


> These are the facts we know.
> 
> So we can make a couple assumptions.


Thanks for this excellent post! Lots of great information. Looking forward to the return of streaming since Time Warner restricts the current version of MRV from working.


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

RangerOne said:


> I've seen an TiVo Premiere Elite in person and it was running 2.6.19


How were you able to see it was running 2.6.19?


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## RangerOne (Dec 30, 2006)

brentil said:


> How were you able to see it was running 2.6.19?


Sorry folks, I meant to type 14.9. I fixed the earlier post. I had a brain cramp earlier

And I saw the Elite at the CEDIA show. Only got to play with it for a couple of minutes.


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## RangerOne (Dec 30, 2006)

jfh3 said:


> Not to hijack the thread, but can you post any more details / observations on the Elite?


One thing that surprised me was the it had a built-in MoCA bridge. Meaning it will move IP packets between its cat5 and coax connections. Nothing else really jumped out at me.


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

I'm hoping the 14.9 is just a holdover until they get this newer version in place. It's really all speculation at this point but there's evidence at least something is going on.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Yeah, if they're using 14.9 then I'm guessing 14.9 carries the MoCA and quad tuner drivers and code and whatever else to get the new boxes online, along with anything else that's new/updated/fixed.

The HD menus appear to be the same speed, etc. from the Elite demo videos on YouTube. Probably an otherwise minor update.


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Yeah, if they're using 14.9 then I'm guessing 14.9 carries the MoCA and quad tuner drivers and code and whatever else to get the new boxes online, along with anything else that's new/updated/fixed.
> 
> The HD menus appear to be the same speed, etc. from the Elite demo videos on YouTube. Probably an otherwise minor update.


Yeah, very likely because all of the additional stuff is outside of the kernel itself so they could easily tack on all the extra features needed into 14.9 while they work on 16.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

brentil said:


> I'm hoping the 14.9 is just a holdover until they get this newer version in place. It's really all speculation at this point but there's evidence at least something is going on.


Well, if they are going to release 16 to the Premieres, but aren't ready to openly discuss it, showing the Elite with version 16 at a major trade show wouldn't make much sense.


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

SullyND said:


> Well, if they are going to release 16 to the Premieres, but aren't ready to openly discuss it, showing the Elite with version 16 at a major trade show wouldn't make much sense.


Yeah exactly. From the QA tester twitter post it sounds like a large number of new features which will probably be a system refresh coming soon I hope. Get the quad tuners & MoCA stuff out and ironed over before dropping tons more new features.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Looks like the QA tester may no longer be with TiVo now.


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

Hmmm disappearing Twitter posts & accounts... proof of my mad theories! 

Good thing I copied/posted them before they evaporated. I'm really sorry though if the guy lost his job over this thread...


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

brentil said:


> Hmmm disappearing Twitter posts & accounts... proof of my mad theories!
> 
> Good thing I copied/posted them before they evaporated. I'm really sorry though if the guy lost his job over this thread...


Dear TiVo,

Barn door open. Can't pretend by closing it now that the horse is back inside, so saddle up and get the code released ASAP. Thanks. 

(you can bet that tester will never again make a similar mistake ...)


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

brentil said:


> Hmmm disappearing Twitter posts & accounts... proof of my mad theories!
> 
> Good thing I copied/posted them before they evaporated. I'm really sorry though if the guy lost his job over this thread...


I don't think he did. According to his linked in profile, he left TiVo in July. From their job postings a lot of the QA seems to be contract rather than full time so his contract may have been over.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

http://www.multichannel.com/article/474725-LG_TiVo_Breathe_In_Adobe_Air.php

Thought this was somewhat interesting though not much info and it may be mostly focused on the TV.


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

innocentfreak said:


> http://www.multichannel.com/article/474725-LG_TiVo_Breathe_In_Adobe_Air.php
> 
> Thought this was somewhat interesting though not much info and it may be mostly focused on the TV.


I greatly fear that this will be solely a LG TV feature (maybe Insignia too) and not a TiVo Premiere feature. The CPUs in their TVs are leaps and bounds above what we have as they are closer to current generation of phones. It doesn't mean we wont get a version of AIR but the Broadcom chip doesn't support any of the advanced features.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Maybe it is for future TiVo platforms then. We still don't know for sure what hardware the elite has inside.


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

So I was digging in the linux source again for the v16 code and finally came across the area that defines dual core (SMP) support.

\arch\mips\tivo\Gen07C\setup.c (which is the Gimbal/Elite/Q device)


```
#ifdef CONFIG_SMP
    if (!strstr(arcs_cmdline, "maxcpus="))
    {
        /* forcing to 1 CPU until SMP is fully debugged */
        strncat(arcs_cmdline, " maxcpus=1", CL_SIZE - 1 - strlen(arcs_cmdline));
    }
#endif
```
The BCM7413 chip is a derivative of the 7405D so it's settings are defined by its configuration which sets CONFIG_SMP=y to enable it by default.

Oddly the Gen07P (Picasso/Preview) code and the normal Gen07 (Premiere) do not have this section of code in their config files.

*But then whoa Nelly!* I noticed something I was just glossing over before in the comments of the Makefile for the setup.c files for the Gen07C & Gen07P. The Gen07 Makefile is just a copy/paste of the Gen06 file as it lists BCM97401C0 in the comments which is the TiVoHD's BCM7401 chipset. However stopping for a minute in the Gen07C/P Makefile has this gem listed instead in the same line.


```
# Makefile for BCM97125A0 board (includes 7019 family)
```
As other's have said in the Elite/Q thread the the addition of MoCA is a hardware feature and the BCM7425 adds MoCA 1.1 in hardware. Can it be true, the Elite/Q/Preview are actually a hardware refresh too? If true the BCM7425 is a HIGHLY integrated chip with the dual tuners actually built into the core itself. If you look at the picture of a TiVo's guts the tuners take up a lot of board space.



> http://www.broadcom.com/products/Cable/Cable-Set-Top-Box-Solutions/BCM7125
> 
> The* Broadcom BCM7125 is a single-chip*, multi-format HD cable STB solution featuring high levels of integration including an integrated Multimedia over Coax Alliance (MoCA®) 1.1 core, HD AVC, dual 1GHz cable tuners and HD DOCSIS 2.0 compatible modems with 3.0 channel bonding over 4 downstream channels.





> http://www.connectedhomeworld.com/content/next-generation-system-chip-set-top-box-solutions-broadcom
> 
> The BCM7119 and BCM7125 will facilitate the net generation in interactive HDTV programming, connectivity, whole-home media distribution and advance 3D user interface and have as standard the new Multimedia over Coax Alliance (MoCA) already integrated and is DOCSIS® compatible. According to Broadcom the technology will usher in the next generation of connected home solution, with advance functionality and service such as multi-room HD DVR capabilities and advance 3D graphics user interface. "Broadcom continues to fuel the technical innovation to drive the transition to the connected home with integration and performance levels that will reduce energy consumption and overall product cost." said Dan Marotta, Senior Vice President & General Manager, Broadband Communications Group, Broadcom.
> 
> ...


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Unless TiVo opted to change it, the Elite, Q, and Preview I believe are using the Entropic MoCa chip rather than upgrading to a Broadcom chipset that includes it.

http://ir.entropic.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=584388


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

I wonder why they updated the Makefile then to have the BCM7425 information in it?


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

No idea, maybe internal testing for a future refresh when the Broadcom drops in price?


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

I bet they put it there just to get me falsely excited!


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Waiting now for the post, I was digging around in the code and found this.



> Hey brentil stop poking around in the code.


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## windsurfdog (May 1, 2009)

Wah, wah...that right there's funny I don't care who you are...


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

The Q/Elite/Preview use Entropic, that was announced. As for why this is in there - I'd bet TiVo is working on their next-generation HW already. Remember it usually takes a year or more from the time they start developing a box until the time it appears. They could be working on a Series4+ unit using Broadcom's new silicon for a 2012 release. Especially for MSO partners whom I bet are interested in products with built in cable modems to provide advanced services like Virgin Media is doing in the UK.


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

I was semi thinking along those lines. They drop the Entropic device into an existing Premiere chassis and you get the MoCA features. Because none of the other features the BCM7425 have are advertised at all for the Q/Elite/Preview devices.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

brentil said:


> If true the BCM7425 is a HIGHLY integrated chip with the *dual tuners* actually built into the core itself. If you look at the picture of a TiVo's guts the tuners take up a lot of board space.


The Q and Elite have quad tuners, so these integrated tuners would be useless for this, or the next, generation of hardware.

Although I guess it might be useful for the Preview since that will only do live playback anyway and have no use for more then 2 tuners.

Dan


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> The Q and Elite have quad tuners, so these integrated tuners would be useless for this, or the next, generation of hardware.
> 
> Although I guess it might be useful for the Preview since that will only do live playback anyway and have no use for more then 2 tuners.
> 
> Dan


Is there a 4-tuner Broadcom chip? I just assumed they would use two two-tuner SOCs.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

sbiller said:


> Is there a 4-tuner Broadcom chip? I just assumed they would use two two-tuner SOCs.


That would be serious overkill. Those SOC chips are the most expensive part in a TiVo design. It would be much cheaper to use one of the chips without built in tuners and then add the tuners as add-ons.

Dan


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

This isn't your normal CAN style tuner but a FBC (Full Band Capture) tuner.



> The FBC technology directly digitizes the entire 1GHz downstream spectrum, replacing the need for a large number of tuners with only one FBC digital tuner. Full-Band Capture technology advantages include:
> 
> Digital tuning: engineered with new enhanced signal processing techniques that exceed the most challenging performance requirements demanded by operators.
> Bandwidth deployment flexibility: any demodulator can tune to any frequency removing wideband "block" tuner restrictions.
> ...


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Wow, that's impressive!

Dan


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

I wonder who will be the first to tear open their Elite case (and void the warranty) to determine the hardware inside!


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

sbiller said:


> I wonder who will be the first to tear open their Elite case (and void the warranty) to determine the hardware inside!


I'm actually rather surprised www.ifixit.com doesn't have a S3 or S4 tear down/guide on their website.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

sbiller said:


> I wonder who will be the first to tear open their Elite case (and void the warranty) to determine the hardware inside!


With bkdtv missing, I don't know that anyone will.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> With bkdtv missing, I don't know that anyone will.


I will be very tempted to void the warranty and tear mine open.


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

Go to BB with a T10 driver and open a floor model.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Damn, that means it should've been 9 tuner out of the box..

(just kidding, I know cablecard only requires 6)


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## P42 (Jan 7, 2003)

That leaves three for OTA...yippie!!!


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

It does say that they'd still need demodulators for every "tuner". Not sure how much those are, but probably not cheap enough to create a 9 tuner unit just yet.

Dan


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

Based on this thread http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=477361 it looks like TiVo maybe getting ready to push out 14.9 to non elite boxes.


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

We know the Virgin TiVo units are getting a small batch of users pushed with the latest version of their v15 software which has the features of 14.9 we're supposed to get. Over in the Elite thread several users have been told by TiVo CSR that streaming to non-Elite units will not be enabled until 14.9 which will also supposedly give us multi-core support.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

brentil said:


> Over in the Elite thread several users have been told by TiVo CSR that streaming to non-Elite units will not be enabled until 14.9 which will also supposedly give us multi-core support.


I'm not so sure about that. It seems it could be misinformation. I've never heard of TiVo CSRs enabling software to individual boxes before any type of initial rollout has begun.


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## LoREvanescence (Jun 19, 2007)

rainwater said:


> I'm not so sure about that. It seems it could be misinformation. I've never heard of TiVo CSRs enabling software to individual boxes before any type of initial rollout has begun.


same here, I only heard of them doing so once a roll out has started if it fixes a particular problem that user has. But I have only heard of that once or twice if that since I have been on these forums


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

I'm not saying the CSR was enabling features. What was stated in the Elite thread was that the CSR was saying you'll get those features once 14.9 comes out for the non-Elite as streaming to non-Elite devices is not supported in the current 14.8 software. So it will be enabled/supported once you have the software that supports it.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

brentil said:


> I'm not saying the CSR was enabling features. What was stated in the Elite thread was that the CSR was saying you'll get those features once 14.9 comes out for the non-Elite as streaming to non-Elite devices is not supported in the current 14.8 software. So it will be enabled/supported once you have the software that supports it.


What I saw in those threads was the user reported CSR said to force a few connections because the CSR enabled the software. This is highly improbable given the software hasn't been enabled on anyone's boxes yet. I feel sure 14.9 is coming to the non-Elite boxes, but there's been no confirmation when this will happen.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

I'm trying to figure out if we've determined that SMP is or isn't enabled for Flash.

MegaZone states on another site that,



> Based on analysis of the TiVo Premiere Elite 14.9a does enable the second core - but apparently not for Flash. So it speeds up general tasks, but it sounds like the HD UI speed hasn't changed much.


Is this confirmed based on analysis of the code?

TIA, ~Sam


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

I think that comes from the Flash Lite runtime historically being single threaded itself. The newer AIR has made leaps and bounds in terms of runtime performance but the older FL we use is rather archaic.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

brentil said:


> I think that comes from the Flash Lite runtime historically being single threaded itself. The newer AIR has made leaps and bounds in terms of runtime performance but the older FL we use is rather archaic.


That helps clarify it a little for me. It would be great to gain some insight as to what is happening inside the VMED 15.2 software especially around which version of Flash they are using because it is significantly faster. I guess we are in a holding pattern right now until we see something leak out on 16.x.

Thanks again,
~Sam


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

14.9 rolling out to RCN Premieres... going well based on the latest posts.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r26468206-TiVo-TiVo-Code-14.9-Launch










Is there anyway to sticky this thread?

Also want to see if the OP has any opinions on whether the latest news release from Adobe has any impact on TiVo's strategy with 16.x.

http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2011/11/10/adobe-pulls-flash-from-tv-environment/


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

I don't think it will. Adobe is discontinuing Flash support for mobile devices and TV sets from this point on but they will continue to support security & bug fixes on what exists now. Any development work on the v16 is probably already well underway or near completion by now so they've chosen an existing Flash Lite or AIR implementation and gone with it. The hardware we have really doesn't even support the full feature set of AIR or full Flash. It really comes down to if there is a revised box coming which if it does the chipset inside is still designed for accelerating Flash content which to me would indicate a continued effort to focus on Flash. I really don't think we will see a non-Flash based UI for a while.

I'm really not sure if the slew of set top box chipsets that were recently released tailored around Flash can even run HTML5 based content efficiently.


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

Rereading the announcement they still plan on developing Flash to HTML5 conversion tools and they plan to continue developing AIR for mobile devices & TVs.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

brentil said:


> Rereading the announcement they still plan on developing Flash to HTML5 conversion tools and they plan to continue developing AIR for mobile devices & TVs.


Brentil, thanks for your insights!

Tech of the Hub just posted a great article about the Adobe announcement and its impact on TiVo here --> http://www.techofthehub.com/2011/11/adobe-flash-and-connected-devices.html

Also, MegaZone and I had an email exchange and he posted a follow-up here which is consistent with Tech of the Hub's perspective on the situation.

http://www.investorvillage.com/smbd.asp?mb=3928&mn=107538&pt=msg&mid=11144212

~Sam


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

wmcbrine said:


> Right now the Premiere is still at 14.8c. I can tell you that 14.9 is testing (playing Reversi). I've also seen 14.8.5. Oh, and version 20. (!) I haven't seen 16... maybe it runs on those TVs?


I believe you posted elsewhere that you thought we might jump straight to version 20. I am thinking you might be right. Tivodesign keeps referring to the newest update as 1.9.2. I am guessing the 4 might just signify the series 4 as opposed to the 5 on virgin. 2.0 may just be a merging so that all current platforms are running the same os just with minor apps added or disabled such as Netflix or the various UK apps.


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

The 1.9.2 is the version number of the HDUI so it's very possible some are saying 20 when they really mean 2.0 for the next major update as for most people the UI is what they consider major. Because jumping the core OS version from 14 -> 20 doesn't make much sense at all when we have v16 code on the Linux page and it's the version # after the Virgin v15 software.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

Brentil,

New piece of data for you. I finally had a VMED user respond to my request for the SW version information.

SW: 15.2.RC8-VMC-2-C00
Flash Player: 15-2-mr/2011.10.26-1905
HDUI: compass-2/2011.10.28-1830

Source: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8813783#post8813783

Does the compass term on the HDUI mean anything to you?

~Sam (@TechWzrd)


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

That's the codename of their HDUI I'm betting. Their build dates are a couple days after ours so my guess is the base code was provided from the new UI to be updated to reflect their special features.


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## RangerOne (Dec 30, 2006)

The more I think about the 14.9 upgrade, the more I think it's foreshadowing great things in version 16 or whatever the next major upgrade is called. Whatever TiVo is doing in the next major version may require much more processing power and they realized that the activating the second core was required. I don't think they would have spent time on something that was just nice to have or would just give a little bit more performance improvement. And when you throw the name "compass" in the mix, it really gets your wheels turning.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

brentil said:


> The 1.9.2 is the version number of the HDUI so it's very possible some are saying 20 when they really mean 2.0 for the next major update as for most people the UI is what they consider major.


I'm saying 20 because that's how it reports itself to HME apps, in the same field where you'd see "14.8c-etc" today. The most recent version to play Reversi is, to be exact, "20.2.0.AC4-01-2-748".

Version 16.anything has never appeared.


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## geekserver (Dec 6, 2006)

Well today I had to call Tivo for some Tivo Desktop plus issue

and while troubleshooting I asked the nice lady about the update to the software

and she said it is meant to fix the loading green circle that comes up for people who have the new interface (like the series 4) she said it was a small update but wont be on the series 3 etc


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

You probably want to post in the v 14.9 thread, this one is about the v16 version found on the TiVo Linux page which is the hypothetical next core software version and not the UI version.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

BlackBetty said:


> Based on this thread http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=477361 it looks like TiVo maybe getting ready to push out 14.9 to non elite boxes.


Dang, I must have missed it... website says it's completely rolled out. 

http://research.tivo.com/932priority/index.htm


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

Seriously this is a v16 thread not v14.9 keep the offtopic elsewhere.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

I forced a couple of connections and still did not get 14.9. I guess it's not out just yet.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

magnus said:


> Dang, I must have missed it... website says it's completely rolled out.
> 
> http://research.tivo.com/932priority/index.htm


Off topic but that link is for 9.32b which is years old. It means nothing.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

rainwater said:


> Off topic but that link is for 9.32b which is years old. It means nothing.


Yep, I typed in this tivo.com/priority and it redirected to the link I listed above. So, it would seem that Tivo does not keep up with their links.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

magnus said:


> Yep, I typed in this tivo.com/priority and it redirected to the link I listed above. So, it would seem that Tivo does not keep up with their links.


There's nothing to update. They don't do priority lists any more.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

rainwater said:


> There's nothing to update. They don't do priority lists any more.


Then maybe they should say that on the site. Redirect to something that says they don't do that anymore or a nice page not found message. The message that they have up makes it seem like they are done with the updates.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

Maybe they'll do priority lists for version 16, cause, you know, that might bring the thread back on topic.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

That might get the thread on topic in... like 2 years or so.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

magnus said:


> That might get the thread on topic in... like 2 years or so.


If you go back to the beginning of this thread, and brentil's work behind what prompted him to start it, I think he's got some right to feel proprietary about it.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Ok, just having a little fun... on topic starting now.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

geekserver said:


> she said it was a small update but wont be on the series 3 etc


Sadly I don't think the Series 3 will be seeing any updates of any kind ever again, either. But I'm eager to be proven wrong on this point.


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

wmcbrine said:


> Sadly I don't think the Series 3 will be seeing any updates of any kind ever again, either. But I'm eager to be proven wrong on this point.


That's one of the main differences in the code between the v14 & v16 files from the Linux website is nearly all the references to the S3 hardware have been removed.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

brentil said:


> That's one of the main differences in the code between the v14 & v16 files from the Linux website is nearly all the references to the S3 hardware have been removed.


I wonder if version 16 will remove the classic screens too.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

magnus said:


> I wonder if version 16 will remove the classic screens too.


I doubt it since the HDUI won't run on SD TVs for the most part.


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

magnus said:


> I wonder if version 16 will remove the classic screens too.


I truly hope they do. This 2 mode screen stuff is so annoying. I'm hoping that with the 2nd core issues resolved and the various updates to the core OS seen in the v16 code will allow using a newer Flash runtime than FL allowing for more advanced interfaces that are smoother.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

brentil said:


> I truly hope they do. This 2 mode screen stuff is so annoying. I'm hoping that with the 2nd core issues resolved and the various updates to the core OS seen in the v16 code will allow using a newer Flash runtime than FL allowing for more advanced interfaces that are smoother.


I took it to mean remove SD menus completely. I do think the major update in early 2012 will bring us new HD menus to replace some if not all the SD menus.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

innocentfreak said:


> I took it to mean remove SD menus completely. I do think the major update in early 2012 will bring us new HD menus to replace some if not all the SD menus.


Yep, that's what I was wondering. If it would help to streamline and remove unnecessary code. But see your point on keeping them because of older TV sets. However, I don't have any of those.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> I doubt it since the HDUI won't run on SD TVs for the most part.


Is this because of technology- like the chipset wont just convert down to 480i?

Or you mean they look like crap getting all smashed down to an old Sd 4:3 set?

I'm assuming the chipset can convert anything just like it can convert an HD show to output on an SD output so it's more of the latter?


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> Is this because of technology- like the chipset wont just convert down to 480i?
> 
> Or you mean they look like crap getting all smashed down to an old Sd 4:3 set?
> 
> I'm assuming the chipset can convert anything just like it can convert an HD show to output on an SD output so it's more of the latter?


Yep, I'm thinking it's the issue with looking like crap.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Does the HDUI run on top of the SDUI, sort of like an app? If so, it might be interesting to see the flash UI running more semi-natively with all that old code removed. Interesting. Ground-up development would explain the really long delay getting there.

The flash UI could probably still be selectable between 16:9 and 4:3 just like the current SDUI does, if that's a concern.


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

I really believe they've had technical issues holding them back on moving forward like the 2nd core problems and maybe some Flash stuff. There is no reason why there can not exist a unified UI that runs on both HD & SD devices and alters itself to the correct aspect ratio. A great example of this is Android and iOS, both run on devices ranging from 640x480 up to 1080p with the same software UI layer. It's not like they don't know how pissed a lot of people have been with the 2 mixed UIs and the slowness of the HDUI so something must have seriously kept them from moving forward all this time. I personally think v16 development took priority instead of focusing more effort on v14 and the couple of things we're getting like the 2nd core and MRS are backports of work done on the newer version.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

MichaelK said:


> Is this because of technology- like the chipset wont just convert down to 480i?
> 
> Or you mean they look like crap getting all smashed down to an old Sd 4:3 set?
> 
> I'm assuming the chipset can convert anything just like it can convert an HD show to output on an SD output so it's more of the latter?


I know it will get smashed, but it won't even let you pick the HDUI if you connect it to a 480i set.

I think it just isn't worth the development to make the HDUI downscale to 4:3 since they have an existing SDUI they can use.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

brentil said:


> I really believe they've had technical issues holding them back on moving forward like the 2nd core problems and maybe some Flash stuff. There is no reason why there can not exist a unified UI that runs on both HD & SD devices and alters itself to the correct aspect ratio. A great example of this is Android and iOS, both run on devices ranging from 640x480 up to 1080p with the same software UI layer. It's not like they don't know how pissed a lot of people have been with the 2 mixed UIs and the slowness of the HDUI so something must have seriously kept them from moving forward all this time. I personally think v16 development took priority instead of focusing more effort on v14 and the couple of things we're getting like the 2nd core and MRS are backports of work done on the newer version.


Your a more foregiving user than myself. Added together with the years old half baked ott apps and the failed comcast and 100 year directv ports my belief is gross incompetance. Might be on the technical side but likely on the management side not allocating the right resources to do anything well.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r26655426-TiVo-14.92-and-Your-TIVO-s-


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

Middle of 2012 before we will see iPad app support for the Preview and remote start of recordings from the Preview.










http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r26508672-TiVo-RCN-TiVo-Multi-Room-Solution.~start=60


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

Not specifically v16 related but it shows performance gains from just enabling the 2nd CPU. If the kernel and drivers in v16 are optimized even more for threading, especially the UI then we could continue to see a variety of performance gains.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8865720#post8865720


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

So it seems v20 it is!

OS: 20.2-01-2-748
Flash: 20-2-mr/2011.12.06-2105
HDUI: b-iris-2-0-mr/2011.12.16-1451

We will need one of the super hackers to look at the contents of the update to see what kernel version is inside of this update to see if it's based off of this v16 code or v14 code.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

brentil said:


> So it seems v20 it is!
> 
> OS: 20.2-01-2-748
> Flash: 20-2-mr/2011.12.06-2105
> ...


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8889465#post8889465

Not sure if it is accurate though.


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

innocentfreak said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8889465#post8889465
> 
> Not sure if it is accurate though.


I know a couple users know how to gain access to the files and actually decode the content. Seeing as that person's an admin of that forum maybe they know how. I have high hopes for this new codebase to help move TiVo forward to where it needs to be.


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## puffdaddy (Mar 1, 2006)

innocentfreak said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8889465#post8889465
> 
> Not sure if it is accurate though.


That post is erroneous (or perhaps premature). The 20.2-01-2 software release still runs the same 2.6.18-5.1, gcc 4.2.0, SMP kernel introduced with version 14.9.x.


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

puffdaddy said:


> That post is erroneous (or perhaps premature). The 20.2-01-2 software release still runs the same 2.6.18-5.1, gcc 4.2.0, SMP kernel introduced with version 14.9.x.


Thank you, I appreciate you looking into that for us!


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