# foxsat hdr please



## Pugwash

Is anyone else waiting for these to get a release date? I keep reading that they're due pre-xmas and I still have two feeds from our old sky dish free and waiting!


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## Automan

Talk now of this November.....

Automan.


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## Pugwash

I'll start saving. Talk also of around the &#163;300 mark.


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## cyril

I record BBC HD ,ITV HD and F1 HD with a Fortec.

The interface sucks and is single tuner , but OK for £140, but would look forward to a decent HD twin tuner.

Will probably stick with Vista MC and the Fortec in the meantime, and add the Foxsat later when the prices drop a bit.


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## Automan

Seems Some Argos, Comet & John Lewis stores will have them this Saturday...

Automan.


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## Pugwash

Ah yes, John Lewis. Fantastic customer service but never knowingly undersold? I think not...


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## Automan

I have got one on order for delivery Monday from Argos....

I may have a screw loose....

Automan.


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## TIVO_YORK99

Automan said:


> I have got one on order for delivery Monday from Argos....
> 
> I may have a screw loose....
> 
> Automan.


Excellent, I always enjoy reading your comprehensive reviews of your gadgets Automan.


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## Pugwash

The place I've registered with said they'll have the Foxsat HDR to order from the week starting Nov 24th. Still no firm price though.


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## Automan

Unit arrived about an hour ago so far to early for any real feedback...

Some 1st thoughts...
Auto Aspect ratio okay via scart
Auto Aspect ratio not okay via HDMI (well with my Panasonic) You have to press the "Wide" key on remote. Auto, 4:3 Pillar Box, 14:9 Pillar Box, 16: Centre Cut Out, Anamorphic.

Remote control seems quite nice and a fair operational angle range.

Unit front has a alphanumeric display which I think is some type of flurescant illuminated.

It displays channel names and program name being played back.

EPG seems okay and has a find option where text can be entered to be found.

The main thing of course is how it copes with series links and not missing program starts and ends...

I have set series links for
The Saint
Medium
A Touch Of Frost
Gadget Show - conflict on tonights so it said could record the one on Sunday
Family Guy
Heroes (give you option of SD or HD ones to record)
Survivors (same choice)

Advert Skip
By default to next chapter key advances 120 seconds and back does 15secs
It has a range of FF & RW speeds of x2, x4, x16, x32 and x64
Slow motion and of course pause also.

Automan.


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## cashew1970

Automan,

Thanks for this
Quick question from me.....
This is dual tuner isn't it?

If it is, do you have to feed it with 2 connections fom the dish, or does it just take the 1?

I used to have SKy+ and then went back to normal sky, so i have one spare feed kicking about.
SHMBO insists that Living and such are not lost to her, so will still need the sky feed....

Regards
Martin


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## Automan

It is a dual tuner device and to work 100% it needs two feeds from a dish.

It can however work with reduced performance with a single feed.
See http://www.joinfreesat.co.uk/index.php/how-to/operating-a-pvr-with-one-input for details.

Automan.


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## Major dude

cashew1970 said:


> Automan,
> 
> Thanks for this
> Quick question from me.....
> This is dual tuner isn't it?
> 
> If it is, do you have to feed it with 2 connections fom the dish, or does it just take the 1?
> 
> I used to have SKy+ and then went back to normal sky, so i have one spare feed kicking about.
> SHMBO insists that Living and such are not lost to her, so will still need the sky feed....
> 
> Regards
> Martin


I have a similar query as I use one sat feed for a Sky HD box. I notice the FOXSAT needs two one for each tuner but it also has an out feed. Could I use that for my Sky HD box?


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## Pugwash

I assume not. The feeds adjust the multiplex? set of the LNB or something? This is why you need at least 2 pickups on your LNB for Sky+, and most people have quad LNB for multi-room.


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## Pugwash

Automan said:


> Unit arrived about an hour ago so far to early for any real feedback...


I've decided to wait a week or so. What with VAT change, for what that's worth!
ALso had no word from where I registered interest, although Argos promise the price is set at 300 for a month and Comet have it at 300.


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## Automan

Recorded and watched several programs so far...

Series Links work just like the Freeview+ ones..

Recording starts at actual program start and ends at the start of the next program.

Been okay so far for
The Saint
Sarah Jane
Doctor Who 2 x back to back
Clone
A Touch of Frost

Subtitles for A Touch of frost are several seconds in front of dialogue which may be an issue.

Widescreen issue is now okay.
Seem you have to set the "Wide" button to the setting you want when the program is not 16:9

So set to 4:3 Pillar Box (or 14:9 Pillar Box) the image auto switches to 16:9 for adverts e.g. during frost which is a 4:3 one or "The Saint".

The "Auto" option is only okay if you have the latest spec HDMI TV containing extra features.

Front display is annoyingly bright and is an overkill.

During playback at the moment it says "A Touch of 01:45"

Program guide and setup menus are avaialble even during playback and you can search for a part of a program name e.g. TORCHWOOD and then set to record, view or series record.

Note:
Unit uses same IR codes as FoxSat-HD model so dont have them in the same room.
Also I guess to a small degree you could use it with Tivo.

Automan.


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## Pugwash

Excellent. I bit the wallet and ordered from Comet just now, whilst they were in stock! The place I had expected to order from said their first shipment sold out in 6 minutes, so either they're low stock or fast selling. Argos were sold out 10 minutes after they emailed me to say they were in stock.

I'll be seeing if my Harmony remote has the codes yet...


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## cashew1970

OK.... thanks for all of the updates on this.... 
With my SKY dish, I appear to have a Quad reciever, but only have 2 wires coming out of it.
Is it a straight forward job to add another feed? or is this a "pay an engineer to do" job.
Will i be missing something other than just a cable?

Thanks again......
Martin


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## Automan

Factors...
1. Is your dish in a safe position you feel safe to work on.
2. Are the spare connections in good condition and not all corroded?
3. Is the dish in good shape and well aligned.

If the above are all okay then just a twin cable run is all that is required.

Box is still working well BTW with no power resets needed and it seems to a degree you can record two channels and watch certain other ones live.

Automan.


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## Pugwash

I assume you can watch a channel live if it's on one of the multiplexes in use by a recording? I had a quick look online to see which ones shared what, but didn't see a definite list. Then again I had trouble finding out what programmes were in HD on ITV!

Tuesday delivery slot for mine.


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## Automan

Pugwash said:


> I assume you can watch a channel live if it's on one of the multiplexes in use by a recording? I had a quick look online to see which ones shared what, but didn't see a definite list. Then again I had trouble finding out what programmes were in HD on ITV!
> 
> Tuesday delivery slot for mine.


Yes I think that is the case re the multiplexes.

Manual for product is now online at makers website http://www.humaxdigital.com/global/products/new_manual/UM_FOXSATHDR_100GB_101308_low.pdf

Box has a few odd features.

1. Unit cannot delete a recording while it is making one.
2. Recorded item thumbnails only seem to show up the next day.

I like the commercial skip which is a lot better than Sky+ and I think Tivo's

I set forward skip to 60 seconds and back to 15 seconds.

I can skip the average ITV4 4 minute advert break now in under 3 seconds 

Automan.


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## mikerr

These tables might help to find channels you can record at the same time:
http://www.astra2d.com/frequencies2a.htm
http://www.digitalsat.co.uk/astra2_28e.html


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## AENG

Automan, fascinating stuff. Can the Freesat+ box cope with ITV1 HD needing a red button press?


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## Automan

AENG said:


> Automan, fascinating stuff. Can the Freesat+ box cope with ITV1 HD needing a red button press?


Nothing on in next seven days on ITV1 HD so no one really knows for sure how well it will cope....

Perhaps Humax and ITV are still sorting it out?

Automan.


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## Automan

Yes it seems it can record it in HD 

The data for this is contained in the EPG data so when you select an item in the EPG and press enter on it to record it will offer you the SD or HD version.






For my lousy handheld video clip 

Automan.


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## Automan

A Digitalspy forum member has alreay upgraded his one with a WD 1Tb Drive.

Model WD10EVCS

Fairly straight forward task it would seem...

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=940956

Automan.


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## Pugwash

5 minutes to format 1TB? That's fairly good going!


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## Pete77

Is there anything approaching Wishlist like functionality available on this box?

Also I assume the EPG data is only for one week ahead?


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## Automan

Pete77 said:


> Is there anything approaching Wishlist like functionality available on this box?
> 
> Also I assume the EPG data is only for one week ahead?


No wishlists and a seven day epg.

All you can do is browse the epg or use the find option using a keyword.

For example using the word "WAYNE" found nothing.

Nothing with "AMANDA" either 

A search on "SANCTUARY" finds one episode of Sanctuary on 01 DEC

It had the word "pictures" in the item description and a search on that gave me nothing so I guess it is limited to program name and genre

e.g.

Keyword All
Genre from ALL to Movie
Time & Day also has options but will leave at Every Time Everyday

That gave me 229 items 

Change search to Day "Friday" gives 35 items.

So pretty limited compared to Tivo....

However the Series links do seem to work well with what nearly amouts to PDC from the old VCR days permitting exact start.

Automan.


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## Pete77

Well those functionality omissions combined with my lack of a secondary satellite feed on this communal system (getting a secondary feed cabled would probably cost me at least £200 on top of the £300 for the Freesat HD box) will keep me loyal to Tivo for some time to come.

Also as I would have to buy an HD tv at the same time it would be a big investment. I'm sure Freesat HD boxes will down to £199 or less within 9 months. Also hopefuly Topfield may launch a Freesat HD PVR in the end and that might be the point at which I would consider going down the Freesat HD route (due to more Tivo like user modifiable TAPS options).

But I would still have to keep a Sky box in commission to watch or record stuff like the Paris to Dakar rally when I subscribe to Sky for a month once a year..........

Seems I need to have another two pairs of feeds from the communal satellite dish while I am it.......................


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## mikerr

Even that basic title keyword search puts it ahead of the likes of sky+ and v+ ...


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## DX30

Pete77 said:


> lack of a secondary satellite feed on this communal system


The Foxsat will function (albeit in a limited way) with a single feed.



Pete77 said:


> Also hopefuly Topfield may launch a Freesat HD PVR in the end and that might be the point at which I would consider going down the Freesat HD route (due to more Tivo like user modifiable TAPS options).


I don't want to be too pessimistic about it but none of the current Topfield HD models support TAPs. They all use a different chipset from the SD models, so use a different OS, and so no TAPs. It's not impossible a Freesat HD model would add TAP support, but IMHO it's unlikely.


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## mikerr

A topfield is pretty poor out of the box before you add TAPs,
TAPS like mystuff etc are exactly what makes it more than mediocre. So lack of support for any addons in the HD version is a major blow.


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## DX30

mikerr said:


> A topfield is pretty poor out of the box before you add TAPs,
> TAPS like mystuff etc are exactly what makes it more than mediocre. So lack of support for any addons in the HD version is a major blow.


I'd agree, but I'm not sure Topfield would 

The Topfield engineers who came up with TAPs have long gone and I have the impression there isn't the same enthusiasm for the idea within Topfield. I can understand the point of view. While TAPs appeal to enthusiasts the average user doesn't care, so Topfields engineering resources are better spent improving the basic product. Porting the TAP api to new environments must be pretty low down the priorities.


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## Pete77

DX30 said:


> The Topfield engineers who came up with TAPs have long gone and I have the impression there isn't the same enthusiasm for the idea within Topfield. I can understand the point of view. While TAPs appeal to enthusiasts the average user doesn't care, so Topfields engineering resources are better spent improving the basic product. Porting the TAP api to new environments must be pretty low down the priorities.


But surely having the TAPs is what makes it distinctively a Topfield though. Without that it is just another dumb me too dual tuner PVR?:down:


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## AENG

Pugwash said:


> Ah yes, John Lewis. Fantastic customer service but never knowingly undersold? I think not...


I ordered one from JL yesterday and can confirm that the NKU pledge is not being ignored in this case (if the price tag at other stores is still what has been quoted on this thread)


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## Pete77

AENG said:


> I ordered one from JL yesterday and can confirm that the NKU pledge is not being ignored in this case (if the price tag at other stores is still what has been quoted on this thread)


John Lewis has to be a core distribution channel for Freesat since its well known that nice respectable middle class English people with children at public school do not approve of paying for satellite television.


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## Major dude

Pugwash said:


> I assume not. The feeds adjust the multiplex? set of the LNB or something? This is why you need at least 2 pickups on your LNB for Sky+, and most people have quad LNB for multi-room.


Just downloaded the Manual & it describes the LNB out as a feed for a further satellite receiver. So I will use this to feed my SkyHD box which is the source for my 2nd TiVo and I will use the two LNB feeds for the Humax for recording HD material in my bedroom where my Sky HD box use to be located.

Now if only I could get Sky one for free like I used to from Virgin


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## OzSat

I have an idea that the LNB out is quite limited in use - in that you can only view channels matching the same same polarity and band to those on the main Humax in LNB.

It means that is only a 1 in 4 chance of it actually being able to receive what you want.


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## Major dude

ozsat said:


> I have an idea that the LNB out is quite limited in use - in that you can only view channels matching the same same polarity and band to those on the main Humax in LNB.
> 
> It means that is only a 1 in 4 chance of it actually being able to receive what you want.


Deal breaker for me then


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## Pugwash

A quad LNB is a cheap thing, if you can fit it yourself and run a length of cable parallel to the current one.


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## Major dude

Pugwash said:


> A quad LNB is a cheap thing, if you can fit it yourself and run a length of cable parallel to the current one.


I know and I have probably got one already as part of the original Sky HD box install. But you still have to get up a ladder with a made up lead, run it down the wall. Its an inertia thing and whether its worth the bother.

Automan - how noisy is the HDD in your new piece of kit? Louder than a TiVo? Quieter than a SkyHD box and therefore more suitable for a bedroom?


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## Ian_m

You can get multiplexer type things that will multiplex a dual LNB down a single cable, my mate had one for years to provide for two sky boxes where access to the internal cabling was not possible.

I think it muxes the other LNB, at the dish end, upto 5GHz and injects it down the cable and another box un-muxes it out at the other end. Works well.


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## mikerr

They call them stacker/destackers, but they aint cheap:
http://www.satelliteonline.co.uk/stacker_destacker_unit.htm £110

AIUI that only gets you one extra feed though (two cables into one)
(for an extra dumb sky box, or for running a sky+ through a single cable)

Each twin tuner PVR (freesat or sky+) needs two feeds (two cables) to itself, direct from the LNB


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## Automan

Major dude said:


> Automan - how noisy is the HDD in your new piece of kit? Louder than a TiVo? Quieter than a SkyHD box and therefore more suitable for a bedroom?


I have not noted it making any noise!

I can however hear my Sky-HD box located on the glass shelf above when it is recording or playing in HD.

Drive used in new Humax box is designed to be very quiet and is for PVR use.

http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/ds_pipeline.pdf (320Gb model fitted).

Automan.


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## mccg

My HDR drive is slightly louder than my TiVo with Samsung (?)HD250J (5400rpm)
but not so as you'd notice in every day use.
I can just hear it with the speakers on mute, but not otherwise.

But the HD does spin down when it is in standby - so no going back to watch something you missed the start of 
There's also "power save" mode where it turns off the tuners & display too.


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## itm

Automan said:


> However the Series links do seem to work well with what nearly amouts to PDC from the old VCR days permitting exact start.
> 
> Automan.


I was intrigued by the comment re. PDC-like functionality - how does Freesat achieve that sort of thing??


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## Pugwash

I'm assuming that channels that support Freesat+ properly are pushing out the signals for programme starts.

Years and years ago my brother worked at Philips when they came up with PDC for VCR, designed to pause recording adverts. I don't think it ever made it to market for some reason...


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## iankb

The thing that I like about MCE is the way that it handles three-way conflicts with twin tuners. It always lists the programs that it can't record in the 'ToDo' list, and allows you to change which of the combinations of one or more overlapping programs that it should record. Does the Humax have something similar?

How does it then handle conflicts if one of the programs runs late? Does it warn you if you're there? And then how does it default if you're not there? I've always worried about how any PVR could handle that properly if it uses real-time scheduling. A reasonable compromise with my non-realtime scheduled MCE system is to miss the ending, and then use the MCE plugin to watch it from BBC's iPlayer, etc.


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## Automan

itm said:


> I was intrigued by the comment re. PDC-like functionality - how does Freesat achieve that sort of thing??


Taken from this post http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=28941958&postcount=2



> As far as I know, it's essentially the same sort of system as on Freeview, ie an adaptation of the TV Anytime schema.
> 
> That means that there are bits of information, called 'CRIDs' (Content Reference IDs) embedded within the EPG data. Each programme has a unique episode CRID, and if it's a series, there will also be a series CRID.
> 
> So, when you hit record on a programme that has a series CRID, the box knows to ask you if you want to record the series. If you choose to, it will then search for any subsequent programmes in the EPG data that have the same series CRID (and a different episode CRID, so you only get one copy); timers will be set at that point. And then, a background task will periodically check new EPG data to see if there are any new programmes with the same series CRID, and set timers automatically.
> 
> At the time when you set up a series, if it detects that any potential recordings would clash with another recording that's already set then, for that recording, it can scan to see if there's another programme with the same episode CRID, and offer to record that instead.
> 
> So, as long as the box remembers the series CRIDs for which is has been asked to look, it will carry on setting recordings, even if there's a long gap between episodes. If one recording fails, it won't affect other recordings within the series either.
> 
> What we don't yet know is how long it will remember series CRIDs for, and the maximum number it will remember.
> 
> But systems like this are much more sophisticated (in design, if not implementation) than some others where, for instance, each episode simply has a bit of data saying when the next one is. That is prone to failure if, for some reason, an episode isn't recorded.


Automan.


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## Automan

I also today tried copying off some recordings...
Just put a sandisk 4Gig stick in the front usb socket.
From media manager option set the target device, highlight item and select copy.

An episode of Doctor Who is 1.2 to 1.4Gb in size and three files are copied.
Two seem to have no use but the main one ends in .ts and play fine with the VLC Media Player which is a free product 

HD recordings however may have the "no copy" flag set and thus using this method you cannot get them off the hard drive...

Automan.


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## OzSat

Did the Humax record both parts of the football - or just part 1?


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## Automan

ozsat said:


> Did the Humax record both parts of the football - or just part 1?


Still recording but it I did have a section saying ITV HD no program which may have been the news break.

I am not a football fan myself but it seems to me their camera guys need a box of wipes for their camera lenses in the rain 

Automan.


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## OzSat

Did it die before the end of the match?


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## Automan

ozsat said:


> Did it die before the end of the match?


It made a 3hr 40min recording including drawing some balls I assume for another match...

I am not a football fan 

Just trying Star Wars which seems okay but on Dolby Digital 2/0 sound 

Automan.


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## Fred1

Well, I ordered mine from Curries last Friday (only outlet with stock). If its as good as it sounds, I think it will be bye bye Tivo.

Any idea how much a lifetime sub Tivo with large drive and cachecard is worth?


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## Pete77

Fred1 said:


> Any idea how much a lifetime sub Tivo with large drive and cachecard is worth?


You can look up historic auction prices for closed Tivo auctions on Ebay using the Advanced Search function once you have logged in on your Ebay user account.


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## OzSat

It seems some people had problems with ITVHD recordings on Sunday.

But it was not the PVR at fault, but transmission problems.


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## Fred1

Pete77 said:


> You can look up historic auction prices for closed Tivo auctions on Ebay using the Advanced Search function once you have logged in on your Ebay user account.


Thanks Pete I was wondering how to do that. Will be sad to see it go, its been great for the last 6 years or so. They seem to be going for around £100 which is a decent discount off the Humax.

I think its a real testament to the product that Tivo is commanding such high values second hand some serveral years after it was end of lifed by the manufacturer.


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## Major dude

Just notice that it does not have component out only HDMI which is a shame if you want more than one HD out feed.


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## Pugwash

There's sure to be a cable to split the signal. I know I've seen DVI/dual HDMI and combinations. 
I've just got around to watching the first two episodes of the remake of Survivors, and see that the 3rd one is on tomorrow night, so hopefully my box will arrive as planned!


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## Automan

Gadgets HDMI also only likes talking to HDCP devices when viewing HD material.

That's why they did not bother with legacy component video connections which also goes for the latest Sky+ HD boxes.

Automan.


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## Pugwash

Some points that might be worth mentioning (now mine's installed YAY!):

The mains lead is molded both ends, so if you need to route this behind things, make a bigger hole!

The digital audio cable is optical, not coax. Make sure you have a spare input on the amp.

The sound output level seems quite low on mine.

I might find some dark plastic to fit behind the flap as the display is very bright.

The infra-red signal needs to point from quite straight-on. More than 45 degrees and it doesn't seem to pick up the remote signal.

My Harmony remote set up no problem. With the normal Humax remote available it just asked me to play about 6 commands from it into the Harmony and suggested a good match. There's maybe a few additional commands I'll add to the screen.

It did a firmware update as soon as I plugged it in too. Do they mention what they are fixing anywhere?


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## Automan

Also note it has two bits of protective film..

One on the front and the other over the controls and display under the flap.

Claims are that removal helps the IR remote but still it could be better....

Automan.


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## Pugwash

Thanks, hadn't spotted the one under the flap! I've peeled it now and will check later.


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## cyril

It's nowhere near as great as TiVo PVR/EPG-wise, but it's one of my favourite gadgets released this year already 

Finally some competition for SkyHD!



I lost all my scheduled recordings when I temporarily switched to manual mode to watch bloomberg 

Let's hope Humax continue to improve it, or better yet license a TiVo version.


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## Pugwash

I watched Survivors tonight and it wowed me for detail.
Interesting that it records series into folders, so the episodes are grouped easily. Also, you can set up 5 groups of favourite channels and it creates an automatic group from the ones you've watched. I may read the manual later!


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## Automan

Only snag is the channels listed in the main EPG guide..
It does not let you create a "favourite" list of these.

Humax say it is because the freesat spec says "no"

I imagine it would be easy as the guide can be filtered by genre so to filter by your favourites should be easy...

Automan.

Automan.


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## Pete77

Automan said:


> Only snag is the channels listed in the main EPG guide..
> 
> It does not let you create a "favourite" list of these.
> 
> Humax say it is because the freesat spec says "no"


I would suggest that an email to the Freesat Managing Director pointing out that this is daft is a good idea:-

[email protected]


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## Automan

Pete77 said:


> I would suggest that an email to the Freesat Managing Director pointing out that this is daft is a good idea:-
> 
> [email protected]


I complained via the freesat website but may give that email address also.

The other MAJOR oversite is the lack of subtitles on HD channels....

Box makers say support for the type of subtitles used on BBC HD and ITV HD were not in the spec so they are not supported.

Freesat claims a fix is in the pipeline....

Automan.


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## Pete77

Automan said:


> Box makers say support for the type of subtitles used on BBC HD and ITV HD were not in the spec so they are not supported.


So if the spec did not say that there needed to be a channel change button on each remote then box makers would presumably produce a remote without one then?

Is the Freesat spec really a totally rigid spec like a Sky box (that even includes the remote design) rather than a minimum spec that a box must have in order to call itself a Freeview box?

Regarding who you complain to call centres are often a dead end in resolving policy based issues as we saw with the Tivo Suggestions issue. I presume some bright spark at Freesat board level believes that not having Favourites will cause us to watch obscure shopping channels more frequently.


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## TCM2007

Pete77 said:


> So if the spec did not say that there needed to be a channel change button on each remote then box makers would presumably produce a remote without one then?


You've never worked with software developers I see!


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## Pete77

TCM2007 said:


> You've never worked with software developers I see!


I have and I fired the firm of developers who only wanted to do things whichever way was most convenient for them and liked to nitpick over the detail of what they considered was in the spec in favour of one that actually delivered what the client needed.


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## Pugwash

Automan said:


> I complained via the freesat website but may give that email address also.
> 
> The other MAJOR oversite is the lack of subtitles on HD channels....
> 
> Box makers say support for the type of subtitles used on BBC HD and ITV HD were not in the spec so they are not supported.
> 
> Freesat claims a fix is in the pipeline....
> 
> Automan.


Apparently one of the fixes in the firmware update was to correct the size of subtitles on HD channels? 
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/digitaltv/a132029/humax-updates-freesat-hd-firmware.html


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## Automan

Perhaps that is the Humax half of the fix?

http://www.freesat.co.uk/index.php?page=help.Question&id=79



> *Does freesat have subtitles?*
> 
> Yes, freesat fully supports subtitles.
> 
> There is currently a technical issue with the launch of subtitles on BBC HD to freesat receivers and the BBC is working with freesat to resolve the issue. The BBC is aiming to resolve the matter as quickly as possible and, hopefully, within the next couple of months


Automan.


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## dialanothernumb

This box certainly appeals. One question I have which is probably dumb;

I had Sky HD installed, then a year later, unsubscribed. (I am clearly not a pay tv kind of guy!)

The dish is still up on the roof. I presume if I have had fully functional Sky HD, and I have two cables coming down and in the living room, I have what I need for Freesat+. Is that correct?


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## DX30

dialanothernumb said:


> I presume if I have had fully functional Sky HD, and I have two cables coming down and in the living room, I have what I need for Freesat+. Is that correct?


Yes.


----------



## Automan

The only tricky bit is finding anyone with one for sale in stock to hook up to your dish!

Automan.


----------



## AMc

Did the box come with 2 F connector leads (or one figure of 8)? One of the few irritations of the non-DVR Humax Freesat box my parents got was it didn't contain a fly lead to connect to their satellite wall plate.


----------



## Automan

No satellite leads are provided...

You get...

HDMI Cablle.
Scart Cable.
Composite Video/audio cable.

Automan.


----------



## Pugwash

My leads were from the previous owner's Sky+. Poor installation too, leads straight through the wall into the box, no patch panel. I think this is how most have been done.


----------



## Pugwash

I finally spotted how to set recording by time and channel! I don't know if this was obvious to everyone but me?

You go to the guide, change to "List" view (green), and can scroll down the first column to channel. Then across a column you can scroll through dates, then across to the third column you scroll through the times and programmes.


----------



## B33K34

Pugwash said:


> My leads were from the previous owner's Sky+. Poor installation too, leads straight through the wall into the box, no patch panel. I think this is how most have been done.


That's completely normal isn't it - the fewer connections in the cable the cleaner and stronger the signal.

One of these is on my shopping list for the New Year and will finally see my Tivo move to my parents (who i'm sure will love it).


----------



## mccg

Pugwash said:


> I finally spotted how to set recording by time and channel! I don't know if this was obvious to everyone but me?
> 
> You go to the guide, change to "List" view (green), and can scroll down the first column to channel. Then across a column you can scroll through dates, then across to the third column you scroll through the times and programmes.


You can set manual recordings too:

In schedule, scroll down to "blank" entry (or scroll up from top to wrap round)
Hit yellow to edit.
Enter date, start time, end time, repeat options, and hit OK to create.


----------



## hazydaze

Ok.

I've never had satellite anything, but am interested.
what would the best approach? Get an engineer to install a dish and ?line? then buy the box?

Buy the box, then get an engineer? Get an engineer who will provide the box aswell?

Do freesat have a list of approved engineers?


----------



## ericd121

I have a similar question.

Suppose, just suppose, you wanted a FreeSat Recorder in order to receive ITV HD, but you also wanted an HD Sky+ box to receive C4 HD as well as getting BBC HD on both.

What would be the best, and cheapest, way to go about it?

What would you tell the engineer?

How many connections would you need from the dish?

I think I've read somewhere here that you can subscribe to Sky+ without subscribing to a Sky package: is that true?

So many questions...


----------



## Automan

hazydaze said:


> Ok.
> 
> I've never had satellite anything, but am interested.
> what would the best approach? Get an engineer to install a dish and ?line? then buy the box?
> 
> Buy the box, then get an engineer? Get an engineer who will provide the box aswell?
> 
> Do freesat have a list of approved engineers?


Argos offer an install option as do Comet.

I think also if you google around you may find a discount code for half price install from Argos...

Remember it is a twin feed that it needs...

I'm sure local firms also exist depending upon your location.

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5321832/Trail/searchtext>HUMAX.htm

Automan.


----------



## mikerr

A twin tuner box needs two cables from the dish,
So having both skyHD and freesat would need 4 cables,
a pair to each box.

You'd need a "quad LNB" on the dish to give you those 4 connections.

You can also get "octo LNBs" which give eight connections, which would then give you a few spare for dumb digiboxes elsewhere.

quad/octo LNBs are only around &#163;10/20, its the wiring that takes the time and costs the money!


----------



## hazydaze

Many thanks.

The argos option certainly seems the easiest for a total newbie such as myself.

If Tivo dies then this will be my next recorder (unless anyone here thinks there is a better option--Windows Media Centre?) Cetianly disappointed in what I've seen of play TV. Not desperate to have freesat instead of freeview--not even that bothered about HD though it is icing on the cake. 

My main wants are reliable season pass functionality and ideally twin tuners.

Again, my thanks to this forum. Always my first port of call for friendly and knowledgable advice.


----------



## Automan

HD Subtitles now are working on BBC HD 

Also a very neat font...

Automan.


----------



## cyril

ericd121 said:


> I have a similar question.
> 
> Suppose, just suppose, you wanted a FreeSat Recorder in order to receive ITV HD, but you also wanted an HD Sky+ box to receive C4 HD as well as getting BBC HD on both.
> 
> What would be the best, and cheapest, way to go about it?
> 
> What would you tell the engineer?
> 
> How many connections would you need from the dish?
> 
> I think I've read somewhere here that you can subscribe to Sky+ without subscribing to a Sky package: is that true?
> 
> So many questions...


AFAIK you still need £10 per month to enable recording for SKy+.

So cheapest way to record ITVHD (excluding PC):
Fortec Innovation single tuner with your own USB drive £140 +cost of external USB drive
No Freesat EPG, but HD content is unencrypted and can be viewed on your PC 

Cheapest way to record C4HD:
Refurbished SkyHD box £140 plus £10 per month subscription

You will need one cable for each box, though preferably 2 for the SkyHD box so you can use both its tuners.

Best Way is to have a quad LNB and send 4 cables to a FoxsatHDR (£295) and a SkyHD box (£199 plus £10 per month subscription) , and then if you have spare cash add a Fortec or PC with satellite card so you can view and edit HD content from BBCHD and ITVHD.

Might be hard to get Sky to agree to the minimum £10/month sub unless you have already completed a 12 month Sky sub.
They will probably want £27 per month for a HD mix and an entertainment mix for 12 months.


----------



## mikerr

Automan said:


> HD Subtitles now are working on BBC HD
> 
> Also a very neat font...


 Are all subtitles transmitted as images instead of text data now? Seems a backwards step....


----------



## ColinYounger

Eh? How the text is rendered is up to the STB.


----------



## mikerr

This page made me think that digital subtitles are rendered before transmission,
(a colleague also said this is how it works...but he may be wrong)
http://www.subtitling.com/index.asp?PageID=90


> Subtitles are generated as a graphical bitmap and then encoded and compressed into the DVB delivery format
> ... the subtitles are delivered as a graphical bitmap




I know we can still get 888 subs in text form.


----------



## Automan

At DigitalSpy Land They say

The development follows a software release in October for Humax's Foxsat-HD receiver that added support for DDS - display definition segment - a technology that allows the box to scale subtitles for display on high definition broadcasts.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/digitaltv/a138063/bbc-hd-adds-subtitles-on-freesat.html

They are a lot nicer to read than the ones you get with Sky+ HD for the BBC HD channel.

Automan.


----------



## tray

So if you can get Freesat on a Sky dish does that mean that:

1.The same satellite is used for both 

or

2. They are they more or less in the same postion

or

3. The Sky dish will need realignment

or

4. None of the above !

Thanks !


----------



## Automan

tray said:


> So if you can get Freesat on a Sky dish does that mean that:
> 
> 1.The same satellite is used for both
> or
> 2. They are they more or less in the same postion
> or
> 3. The Sky dish will need realignment
> or
> 4. None of the above !
> Thanks !


Yes the same satellites are used as with Sky. Mainly the Astra 2x ones and Eurobird.

If the Sky dish is well aligned up and you get all channels all should work.

Like Sky+ of course the box needs two feeds from the dish.

Automan.


----------



## Automan

An example what I mean about recording start control Sky+ HD vs Foxsat-HDR

Both units set to auto start and end recording Medium on BBC1 last week

Sky+ HD started recording 5 mins 12seconds early (making me watch the lotto)
Sky+ HD ended recording 2mins 6seconds after program end in credits of next program.
Recording length 48mins

Foxsat-PVR started recording 15 seconds early
Foxsat-PVR ended recording 1min 10 seconds after program end.
Recording 22:48 ~ 23:31

Freesat EPG also auto links over news breaks in movies and can find alternate showings of same program at another time or on another channel (if the epg data is correct of course).

Automan.


----------



## Pugwash

Channel 4 don't appear to broadcast the PDC data. A few recordings now have started early. BBC have been very accurate recordings.


----------



## DX30

Pugwash said:


> Channel 4 don't appear to broadcast the PDC data. A few recordings now have started early. BBC have been very accurate recordings.


Commercial TV I'm afraid. C4 is funded by adverts, so needs to get you to watch them. For a PVR that means commercial channels tend to signal programme start early so on playback you then watch all those nice adverts. If C4 just signalled the real programme start you would miss them. Just be glad they don't disable the ability to fast forward, at least yet


----------



## Pugwash

DX30 said:


> Commercial TV I'm afraid.


Not so sure on their motive. They probably just don't have the software as they never were much good with PDC. I picked up the end of the previous programme for IT Crowd this week, not just adverts.
ITV are fine.


----------



## Automan

The ITV channels seem to provide the accurate program start control data...

Automan.


----------



## OzSat

Automan said:


> An example what I mean about recording start control Sky+ HD vs Foxsat-HDR
> 
> Both units set to auto start and end recording Medium on BBC1 last week
> 
> Sky+ HD started recording 5 mins 12seconds early (making me watch the lotto)
> Sky+ HD ended recording 2mins 6seconds after program end in credits of next program.
> Recording length 48mins
> 
> Foxsat-PVR started recording 15 seconds early
> Foxsat-PVR ended recording 1min 10 seconds after program end.
> Recording 22:48 ~ 23:31
> 
> Freesat EPG also auto links over news breaks in movies and can find alternate showings of same program at another time or on another channel (if the epg data is correct of course).
> 
> Automan.


Sky recording times can look on when viewing them live.

If you set a BBC1 programme times as 7pm to 7.30pm with 2 minute early start - it will flag as recording from 6.58pm - but often doesn't actually write anything until the real start time.


----------



## DX30

Pugwash said:


> Not so sure on their motive. They probably just don't have the software as they never were much good with PDC. I picked up the end of the previous programme for IT Crowd this week, not just adverts.
> ITV are fine.


Actually that just suggests to me that it's ITV that haven't yet sorted out their PDC-like control.

With Freeview+ ITV started out signalling at the start of programmes but over time have changed over to signalling at the start of the adverts before the programme. I'd be surprised if ITV don't start including the adverts on Freesat+ too within the next year.

Can you think of a good reason ITV could give to it's advertisers for ensuring PVR owners don't see their adverts?


----------



## Dodgy

I'm delighted with my Foxsat HDR, I stopped using TiVo when we subscribed to Sky HD over a year ago and it's nice to be back in control again  While the Foxsat isn't quite as intuitive as TiVo, I now find that I no longer hanker for a new TiVo in our house (but would obviously investigate any new TiVo hardware if it became available in the UK).
It's great to hit play on a new recording to find that the Foxsat (aided by the appropriate signalling obviously) has started recording at just the right moment. The skip forward feature is superb, I find 240 seconds takes you exactly past the adverts and no more (give or take a second). Which is interesting as I always thought advert breaks were 180 seconds.


----------



## Sneals2000

ColinYounger said:


> Eh? How the text is rendered is up to the STB.


Both are right - there are two different subtitling systems in use in the UK now.

Freeview and Freesat use DVB Subtitles - which like DVD subtitles are sent as bitmaps (losslessly compressed) not characters. This allows the broadcaster control over rendering rather than the receiver.

Sky Digital uses WST Teletext subtitles using page 888 - where the broadcaster sends characters and the receiver renders them into type. Some receivers will also re-insert the subtitle data into VBI blanking to allow Tivo and downstream TVs to render them rather than the receiver..

Thus there are usually two subtitle streams on satellite for channels on both platforms.


----------



## tray

Thanks Automan:up:


----------



## Pete77

DX30 said:


> Can you think of a good reason ITV could give to it's advertisers for ensuring PVR owners don't see their adverts?


Yes its that recording the ads before the program buggers up recording of programs in the previous hour long slot so people may not record any programs on ITV at all as they will find this so annoying.

People clearly expect to have the ad breaks inside the program and the one at the end of the program but to include the ones before the program is just greedy and stupid. For instance how does the PVR cope with recording two programs on ITV in succession if ITV signals each recording as being 1 hour 3 minutes long and with the two recordings overlapping just so the adverts before the program can be caught in each case. Are we saying the twin tuners have to be used for this?

ITV as acting as though it is the only channel in town when clearly it is not and it has to persuade people to record stuff on its channels.


----------



## Automan

ITV as I mentioned seem to use the PDC and start very close to actual program start.

The system let down is it does not stop recording till just before the next program.

I have just started to watch "The Old Curiosity" shop on prime time Sunday night and the recording started at the same time as the program...

Recording Actual Time 21:04 ~ 23:04
Scheduled Time 21:00 ~ 23:00

Automan.


----------



## Pete77

Automan said:


> ITV as I mentioned seem to use the PDC and start very close to actual program start.
> 
> The system let down is it does not stop recording till just before the next program.


I can't see what's wrong with that then as the ads at the end are part of the hour long slot. You can't expect a channel like ITV1 not to include those. As you just stop watching when the program ends I can't really see any issues there.


----------



## TCM2007

What are these "ads" you keep talking about?


----------



## Pete77

TCM2007 said:


> What are these "ads" you keep talking about?


Well this kind of course.

See www.tellyads.com

Can I take it that world of magazine publishing is leaving time on your hands that needs to be filled at the moment?

After all you don't even any longer have the excuse of still owning a Tivo and your last post was definitely not either helpful or useful to other forum members.


----------



## Automan

Be quick and follow the instructions at http://www.joinfreesat.co.uk/index.php/humax-pvr-now-available-at-dixons and you may bag one for £265.00 with standard delivery.

My second one is on order 

Automan.


----------



## DX30

Pete77 said:


> Yes its that recording the ads before the program buggers up recording of programs in the previous hour long slot so people may not record any programs on ITV at all as they will find this so annoying.


That sort of thing has been happening for years. Broadcasters deliberately start programmes before the scheduled start, or continue past the scheduled end, precisely in order to overlap with other channels. It tends to discourage channel hopping, and make people watch more adverts.

Why do you think endpad exists?



Pete77 said:


> People clearly expect to have the ad breaks inside the program and the one at the end of the program but to include the ones before the program is just greedy and stupid.


So? Commercial broadcasters are interested in maximising profit, and when ad funded that means making people watch ads.



Pete77 said:


> For instance how does the PVR cope with recording two programs on ITV in succession if ITV signals each recording as being 1 hour 3 minutes long and with the two recordings overlapping just so the adverts before the program can be caught in each case. Are we saying the twin tuners have to be used for this?


That isn't an issue as that isn't how the signalling works. You don't signal start/end, you signal what's on now. Two programmes on the same channel can't overlap.



Pete77 said:


> ITV as acting as though it is the only channel in town when clearly it is not and it has to persuade people to record stuff on its channels.


As far as ITV is concerned they are the only channel in town  The aim of any ad funded commercial broadcaster is to make you watch the maximum number of adverts. Programmes are only a way to get people to watch said adverts. If you can also mess with other rival channels that is a bonus.

The capability exists to signal to the PVR to record only the programme itself, and not record any adverts whether before, during, or after. In a viewer centric world that would happen, but I don't expect it anytime soon.

Edit:
I'm sorry I've strayed off topic like this. The methods and ethics of commercial broadcasters isn't really the subject of this thread.


----------



## markham

just missed the Dixons bargain Automan.....keep us posted if you see any others


----------



## Pete77

markham said:


> just missed the Dixons bargain Automan.....keep us posted if you see any others


www.freesatadvice.co.uk/pages/PPP/HDR.html?gclid=COPpobPkxJcCFQfmlAod4HJUSw appears to be a useful site to keep an eye on for any Freesat PVR bargains.

Also check if anywhere you are thinking of buying from offers further cashback if you commence the purchase via www.quidco.com or www.topcashback.co.uk


----------



## iankb

DX30 said:


> ... Broadcasters deliberately start programmes before the scheduled start, or continue past the scheduled end, precisely in order to overlap with other channels. It tends to discourage channel hopping ...


"Who wants to be a Millionaire" was the worst for intenionally running late. Probably to stop people turning over for the BBC News. I always added another five minutes on to any recording that followed it. Not much of a problem nowadays, since I rarely find anything on ITV to record.


----------



## AMc

Humax gets a 5 star review at What HiFi
http://whathifi.com/Review/Humax-Foxsat-HDR/


----------



## markham

Yippee I got one from Dixons. First attempt I got the response out of stock so tried again and got one. Two days later I have got it in my hot sticky little hands.£256 I cant believe it, they are selling for £340 on EBay. The only sad thing is I will have to retire my beloved Tivo but thats progress. Automan you are an absolute star.Just have to get the extra cable and try to figure out how to use my sky box and I am away


----------



## Pugwash

You don't need to retire the TiVo, I'm running mine in parallel still. Not sure why you need to use your sky box though??


----------



## Automan

Automan said:


> Be quick and follow the instructions at http://www.joinfreesat.co.uk/index.php/humax-pvr-now-available-at-dixons and you may bag one for £265.00 with standard delivery.
> 
> My second one is on order
> 
> Automan.


My Dixons one arrived today 

However my other one failed to record Foyle's War tonight and while watching on my Sky+ HD box live it decided to reboot itself 

Bad gadgets 

Automan.


----------



## markham

Pugwash can you talk me through how you use your Tivo and fox sat in conjunction. I was under the impression the Foxsat would do everything the Tivo does. I thought I would retain the sky box to view the free to air programmes not listed on free sat for instance I particularly like Sky News.I also have a second TV in the kitchen and thought I would need the sky box to watch that using a skylink.


----------



## Pugwash

markham said:


> Pugwash can you talk me through how you use your Tivo and fox sat in conjunction.


I use them in parallel, not conjuction - I have both connected to the TV on different inputs.
I'm not linking them in any way, just keeping the TiVo running because the girlfriend is familiar with it for her trash TV. My TiVo is using a freeview box so there's only the foxsat using two feeds from the dish.
Sorry if you thought it was more exciting than that


----------



## cyril

Automan said:


> My Dixons one arrived today
> 
> However my other one failed to record Foyle's War tonight and while watching on my Sky+ HD box live it decided to reboot itself
> 
> Bad gadgets
> 
> Automan.


Yes, I've now had a few fail for 'unknown reason'.

So reliability seems on par with SkyHD 

I now have one SkyHD and one FoxsatHDR in 3 rooms, so will see which is more reliable over the next few months. (It is a given that the TiVos will be more reliable than either of those)


----------



## DX30

markham said:


> can you talk me through how you use your Tivo and fox sat in conjunction.


You can connect the Foxsat to the TiVo using the scart, then rerun the TiVo Guided setup choosing Freesat and setting the Sat Box to Humax 20073. The TiVo will then control and record the Foxsat output, albeit in SD. To record in HD you obviously need to record on the Foxsat itself.

One word of warning - when I tried this I found the Foxsat PVR occasionally locks up, so for TiVo use I've now reverted to the non-PVR Foxsat I was using earlier (this combination never missed a recording in several months).


----------



## Neil F

I got one a couple of days ago and I'm finding the move from TIVO to be very painful.
The search function is very poor. I did a search for 'lectures' to record a Royal Institution christmas lecture that was on last night. It didn't come up in the search, so I had to manually navigate in the EPG to find it. It clearly had 'lectures' in the title.
The 7 day EPG is also a bit annoying especially if you were going on a fortnights holiday.
The fact that you can't delete while its playing or recording is annoying. As is the fact that it doesn't ask if you want to delete a program after watching it.
This morning I had a slot where it wasn't recording so I decided to prune my recordings of watched programmes. The file manager had a folder with 3 episodes of the green green grass, 2 of which I had already watched. There is no indication of which episode, is which! No date, no episode number or title, nothing to say watched or unwatched!! I decided to go with deleting the top two - I guessed wrong hehe.
And the biggest thing I miss - A web interface! Feeling a bit like I've gone back to my 20th century TV viewing habits lol

Neil


----------



## hazydaze

So, anyone with expreience. If my tivo dies, I would need to choose between the foxsat and a media centre pc. Which would you recommend for ease of use?


----------



## Automan

hazydaze said:


> So, anyone with expreience. If my tivo dies, I would need to choose between the foxsat and a media centre pc. Which would you recommend for ease of use?


That depends upon which Tivo like features you use and wish to retain.

The foxsat-hdr has no season pass type options just Sky+ series links and the ability to seach the epg from a program name on in the next seven days.

If you want more, another solution is required.

Automan.


----------



## Automan

I may be wrong but items I have recorded on ITV3 & 4 all seem to have been standard length items with adds at front and ends cut off 

I think it started to go down hill when ITV4+1 went on air...

Automan.


----------



## Pugwash

I missed the end of IT Crowd last night because Channel 4 over-ran and don't send the right signals. Annoying.

Unwatched items in the media list have "New" in little blue letters before the title. This disappears if you've watched even a little bit of it though.

I think I'd prefer a flat list if programmes as looking in folders has got tedious. Maybe there's an option for this I missed?

I agree about needing the delete option after watching.


----------



## Pete77

Many thanks to all you Freesat guinea pigs for convincing me that I should wait at least another year for Freesat to sort its act out on the EPG and Season Pass etc functionality before even considering getting one.


----------



## hazydaze

Automan..thanks.

So what is the difference between a series link and a season pass? I'd always assumed it was the same thing. Do you need a new series link for each new series?

The season pass is basically the only feature of Tivo that I would desperately want to replace. Beside that I'd just like it to be easily navigable as Tivo is. Of course, it is the back of my mind that a MC PC with a decent graphics card might also get used for gaming, but I have a gaming PC, so that is an optional extra at most.


----------



## TCM2007

If they worked right they'd be ore or less tha same.

Sky's series links work by embedding a code which identifies the next episode in the guide data for the current one. This means the procssing is all done at Sky's end, and it is much less flexible when it comes to finding alternate recordings.

TiVo's Season Passes are calculated on the TiVo using it's full copy of the entire EPG. More flexible, but technically more demanding and requring better guide data.

The practical differences are that under Sky's system you can only see a single upcoming episode waiting to be recorded, and it can't opt to rcord alternatives at different times or channels if there's a clash. Setting up a Series Link also requires live access to the EPG, ie it needs to have a tuner it can use to find the data, so sometimes you can't set one and hae t come back later.


----------



## hazydaze

TCm--Nice explanation. Thanks. So how does it cope when a series ends and the next air-date is not known?


----------



## Pugwash

For the foxsat I guess we'll find out!


----------



## TCM2007

hazydaze said:


> TCm--Nice explanation. Thanks. So how does it cope when a series ends and the next air-date is not known?


Sky Series Links lapse if the next episode is not with the the next two or three weeks (I forget the exact time).


----------



## hazydaze

[email protected] link lapses...so that's a bit rubbish then.

How do Meida Centre Pc's cope--same lapsing?


----------



## Pete77

TCM2007 said:


> Sky Series Links lapse if the next episode is not with the the next two or three weeks (I forget the exact time).


In other words Sky's Series Links are rubbish compare to a Tivo Season Pass. The Sky method means you constantly miss at least the first episode or two of a new series.

Out of interest how does the functionality of a Windows MCE Season Pass or whatever it is called on that platform compare to the Tivo and Sky systems? Also what about Freeview + and the Freesat Humax PVR?


----------



## Automan

Pete77 said:


> In other words Sky's Series Links are rubbish compare to a Tivo Season Pass. The Sky method means you constantly miss at least the first episode or two of a new series.


Correct,
If you don't see an advert for a new series and set it to record you will miss it 

Also if you do see a trailer and its more than seven days before the program is on you have to remember to add it when it appears in the EPG so again if you forget you stand a good chance of missing the first episode.

Of course a lot of new programs are now shown more than once which helps.

Automan.


----------



## Pete77

Automan said:


> Of course a lot of new programs are now shown more than once which helps.


Also they are now generally available for download on BBC IPlayer and so on for at least 7 days or up to 31 days depending on the rights arrangements for the program and the channel involved.

But my experience with just having watched 5 episodes of Survivors over two days on BBC IPlayer using the live streaming version (far too lazy to hook my PC up to the tv and sort out the sound sync etc and use the download version) is that even with my decentish ISP and late at night that the IPlayer broadcast stopped totally and had to be kicked off again from the start (then moved back to the point I was at in the program using the slider) at least three or four times in each program. Obviously that says the live streaming version of IPlayer is still rubbish and that web tv watching is still far from perfect.


----------



## TCM2007

Pete77 said:


> Out of interest how does the functionality of a Windows MCE Season Pass or whatever it is called on that platform compare to the Tivo and Sky systems?


MCE Series recordings work like TiVo ones, only more flexibly (for instance a single season pass can be set to work on all channels, and you can specify a preferred time of day for a recording, or not to record more than once a day).


----------



## TCM2007

hazydaze said:


> [email protected] link lapses...so that's a bit rubbish then.
> 
> How do Meida Centre Pc's cope--same lapsing?


No, they persist like TiVo's.


----------



## Pete77

TCM2007 said:


> MCE Series recordings work like TiVo ones, only more flexibly (for instance a single season pass can be set to work on all channels, and you can specify a preferred time of day for a recording, or not to record more than once a day).


Sounds to me then like MCE with satellite tuners is the way to go rather than the dedicated Freesat box route.

But of course no solution at all for blasted Sky encrypted channels other than the Dragon CAM with all its problems. However as I only subscribe to Sky for the Dakar rally (or the Dakar in South America as it is to become) and/or to record the latest few episodes of Air Crash Investigation (usually around the same time as the Dakar but may be continuing in to the next month) I only watch Sky for a few weeks a year so I guess the Dragon CAM might be an acceptable solution in my case.


----------



## dave h-j

Well, i've finally made the switch frmo Tivo to the HDR. Seeing as i'm one of the monthly sub guys, then the decision was a lot easier than if I had lifetime..

I'm actually very impressed by the HDR, ok you don't get the fully Tivo like experiance but it's a lot closer than some of the other records I have seen/used.

EPG was always going to be the sticking point, but I find the HDR one not too bad. I've never been a fan of grid layouts, so I was glad to see that there is a list option which produces something akin to tivo.

I was installed on xmas eve morning, so I nervously left it the duty of recording the Xmas tv lineup whilst at the in-laws. It's not missed a beat and everything I asked for has been done.

Dual recording and HD are the icing on the cake. Overall I'm happy and don;t feel like I'm making such a backwards step. 

Bye bye Tivo - hopefully I can find a decent retirement home for it.. (and bye bye from me, as I doubt there will be much need to visit these parts unless Tivo manage to produce something new in the UK)..


----------



## Automan

Sounds like we have another happy HDR owner 

I did some more comparisons between Sky+ HD and FoxSat-HDR relating to when the recording actually starts.

Both devices had all padding settings on Auto.

*Program	CHN	Product	Complete Y/N	Start Slack*
Aces High	ITV 4	FoxSat-HDR	Y	0 seconds
Aces High	ITV 4	SKY+ HD	Y	381 seconds
Joanna Lumley In The Land Of The Northern Lights	BBC HD	FoxSat-HDR	Y	15 secs
Joanna Lumley In The Land Of The Northern Lights	BBC HD	SKY+ HD	Y	64 seconds
Murder On The Orient Express	ITV4 + 1	SKY+ HD	Y	182 Seconds
Murder On The Orient Express	ITV4 + 1	FoxSat-HDR	Y	30 seconds
Pirates Of The Caribbean	BBC HD	FoxSat-HDR	Y	25 seconds
Pirates Of The Caribbean	BBC HD	SKY+ HD	Y	310 seconds
Steam Days	BBC2	FoxSat-HDR	Y	15 seconds
Steam Days	BBC 2	SKY+ HD	Y	102 seconds
The Chronicles Of Narnia	BBC HD	FoxSat-HDR	Y	28 seconds
The Chronicles Of Narnia	BBC HD	SKY+ HD	Y	101 seconds
The Importance Of Being Earnest	BBC 2	FoxSat-HDR	Y	12 seconds
The Importance Of Being Earnest	BBC 2	SKY+ HD	Y	195 seconds
The IT Crowd	CHN 4	FoxSat-HDR	N	Already started
The IT Crowd	CHN4 HD	SKY+ HD	N	Already started
The Saint	ITV 4	FoxSat-HDR	Y	1 second
The Saint	ITV 4	SKY+ HD	Y	103 seconds

If you can read my table you will see every time the HDR did a better job.

Both failed in the same way on CHN4 where "The IT Crowd" had already started.

Automan.


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## itm

Automan said:


> Sounds like we have another happy HDR owner
> 
> I did some more comparisons between Sky+ HD and FoxSat-HDR relating to when the recording actually starts.
> 
> Both devices had all padding settings on Auto.


Do the padding settings have to be Auto in order for the PDC-like signals to be used by the recorder?


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## Automan

itm said:


> Do the padding settings have to be Auto in order for the PDC-like signals to be used by the recorder?


From what I have read the answer is yes.

What is needed is an option for Auto if pdc data found or the value you enter if not.

Perhaps they will add such an option or better still get the other channels to update their kit.

It seems to be the same system that is used for Freeview+

Automan.


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## Pugwash

IT Crowd has been a pain in the bum. Missed the end last week and the start this week.


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## Major dude

Just acquired an HDR from JL & I'm quite pleased with it. Knocks spots off SkyHD as it is almost silent in operation unlike the SkyHD box which makes a loud whirring noise with a couple of clicking noises when it starts to record making it unsuitable for recording late at night in a bedroom.

PQ on HD is very good and the interface is acceptable with season pass equivalent function working well..........however compared with the TiVo interface it is so second rate. The way it handles and stores programmes in individual files accessable from a file manager menu is total rubbish. It still amazes me how all those years ago TiVo got it so right.


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## AENG

Major dude said:


> It still amazes me how all those years ago TiVo got it so right.


"Amen" to that!


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## robmcmahon

Just weighing up the pro's/con's of the HDR and it is looking favourable from the thread so far.

Has anyone compared HDR to Mythtv with freesat? 

I have been running Mythtv (standard freeview) on a laptop as trial, my Tivo seems to be permanently on cbeebies!

Rob


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## mutant_matt2

It's not all sweetness and light though, there are a good few bugs, and some "features" which would annoy the hell out of me, which is annoying, because I want one as a backup to TiVo, and for recording HD.

I'm waiting to see what else comes along, or if Humax fix the problems...

Matt 

P.S. I didn't see anyone answer the Series Link length thing, and I believe the HDR will keep any "empty" series links for 13 weeks before deleting them. Much better than Sky, but not nearly good enough, IMHO (let's face it, we've all been spoilt by TiVo!   )

P.P.S. For details, see: http://www.hummy.org.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=74


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## B33K34

I've had my HDR a few weeks now and, after my initial "It's not Tivo" shock am coming round to it. 

The box itself is nicely made and i'm amazed at how quiet it is and how cool it runs (my Two drive tivo has an annoying sine wave hum as the vibrations move in and out of sync). 

I think most of the this has been highlighted by others but my take on them is:

- boot time. annoying at first but then it's always bothered me that Tivo sits there sucking a constant 50 watts (IIRC) and you can always leave the HDR on all the time.

- setting recordings. I can't deal with grid EPGs so the list is an improvement. I still find i normally use 'find' and this isn't a patch on Tivo - it really could be a lot better - but i suspect this is an EPG weakness rather than Humax so it's unlikely anyone else will get it better. 

- watching recordings. I like the folders - I record mostly series and watch a few eps in a sitting so not having to scroll through pages to find the next episode a la Tivo is good.

- Picture quality is really good. SD is a big improvement over Tivo and HD is wonderful and ultimately this is the killer for the S1 Tivo. 

- recordings starting and ending on time is great (it fails much less often than Tivo did without padding)

What's bad?
- I'm getting a few HDCP problems that have required a reboot - it's not completely bug free yet
- the delete functionality is terrible. I hope they'll sort out the 10 second delete time and inability to delete whilst recording with an update (this is a joke - it must be a work around for some bug or another) but suspect any form of Auto-delete is unlikely which means some of the things i liked most about Tivo (record and keep one episode of the news) just won't happen.

However, it sounds as if disc swaps are a doddle - put in a 1TB disc for &#163;80, stick the acurrent drive in a caddy, connect by USB and copy files across and once upgraded filling the disc is unlikely to be a problem. 

- the remote is terrible with rows of identical buttons and about half a dozen buttons that could have been eliminated with better interface design. I've got my Harmony working with it and it's instantly more usable.


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## Pete77

So in summary for those of us who prioritise recording what we actually want over absolute picture quality the Freesat HD box is still not there yet.

I will be sticking with my Tivo either till Humax come up with a better product or until Tivo launch their UK computer based PVR and/or Freesat PVR.


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## B33K34

Pete77 said:


> So in summary for those of us who prioritise recording what we actually want over absolute picture quality the Freesat HD box is still not there yet.


No, I'd say the EPG is doing as good a job of recording, if not better, than Tivo. It just takes slightly longer to set recordings (but most of mine are series so I'm only usually adding one or two entries each week).


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## Pete77

B33K34 said:


> No, I'd say the EPG is doing as good a job of recording, if not better, than Tivo. It just takes slightly longer to set recordings (but most of mine are series so I'm only usually adding one or two entries each week).


But I bet SPs don't carry over from one series to another and I bet the EPG is only 7 days ahead?

I frequently benefit from SPs reactivating themselves from old series for the next series and/or Wishlists cutting across channels. For instance take the forthcoming change of F1 coverage from ITV to BBC. I bet my wishlists for either F1 or Formula 1 still catch those recordings without me having to think about it.

Also if I go on holiday my ability to review what is due to record for the next 21 days frequently comes in useful. Also does the Freesat PVR have a web interface to set recordings, view what has been recorded and delete recordings remotely?

Also no Suggestions (the "Tivo's Suggestions" list I mean rather than what Tivo spontaneously records on its own) on a Freesat PVR either.:down:


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## B33K34

Pete77 said:


> But I bet SPs don't carry over from one series to another and I bet the EPG is only 7 days ahead?


Very true - it's *not* Tivo but after using it for a while it *is* better than i expected or initially thought.

I suppose what it's really got me thinking is "Would i still buy an Humax Tivo (assuming hardware the same but Tivo O/S and £10 per month/£200 lifetime?"
I think I would but I can see what a hard sell it would be to the general public and why it's unlikely to be launched.


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## Pete77

B33K34 said:


> I suppose what it's really got me thinking is "Would i still buy an Humax Tivo (assuming hardware the same but Tivo O/S and £10 per month/£200 lifetime?" I think I would but I can see what a hard sell it would be to the general public and why it's unlikely to be launched.


So only a new pay tv operator trying to break in to the market against Sky and Virgin would consider investing in the better quality interface to offset the problem of not being an established brand name in the sector.

However in current recessionary conditions I can't see any new pay tv operators being prepared to enter the marketplace...............

Also if I was going to pay £10 per month then I personally would pay it to Sky for their more flexible Sky HD box. But having got to £10 you then accept paying a few quid more to also have access to the HD Mix channels or else there was no point in getting an HD recording box...................


----------



## Cheesewright

I also have had my Humax Foxsat HDR for a few weeks now and agree with all that B33K34 said about it. 

The remote is not at all good. The buttons and their layout are very unergonomic, it is very difficult to use in the dark, it is hard to work out (in the dark) which end to point at the PVR and it does not work if you are off to one side. I ended up replacing it with a Harmony One universal remote which is, on the whole, excellent. You can get the Harmony One from amazon for £70 if you use the promotional code from vouchercodes.org/25-off-logitech-harmony-one-at-amazoncouk.html

The user inteface is a mixed bag. 

On the whole it is very good for recording (but it would be nice to be able to restrict the channel list to select from to a favourites list). The worst recording problem is that it cannot record from the start of the Time Shift buffer. It just starts from the current time.

The user interface for playback is poor:
* The Time Shift buffer control is very annoying: it should not jump to the end when a background recording ends (nor when adverts occur on ITV HD).
* When finished watching an item, you should be prompted to delete it.
* You should be able to delete a recording even if it is recording something else.
* You should not have to go into File Manager to delete items.
* Deleting should by MUCH faster. If necessary, it should just mark items as deleted and delete them in the background at a later date.
* Skip back 7 secs or forward 120 secs should be possible even in pause mode.
* It should use colour to indicate that an item has already been watched to (nearly) the end.
* File Manager should not require you to click ok on '..' to go back. It means nothing to non-computer people. The back button on the joystick should take you back instead.
* The File Manager's dual adjacent lists of files should only be displayed when necessary. Most people will not be copying files between devices most of the time.


Programme information does not include the date the programme was first made nor does it indicate whether it is a repeat or not. Perhaps this is a FreeSat limitation.

An EPG that is limited to 7 days is a problem if you go on holiday. Again, I think this is a Freesat restriction.

If you record a series, I don't know whether it will remember to record the next series.

I would hope that Humax would fix some of the problems with a software upgrade but I think it unlikely. Some of these problems also existed on their earlier PVRs and have not been fixed. Perhaps they will release the code so that we can fix the problems for them. I doubt that they will, though.

On the plus side, it produces very good pictures (excellent SD upscaling), has a good disk capacity and does not require a subscription.

However, if you are thinking of buying this unit, I would advise waiting a bit. I expect similar units to be released soon by other manufacturers which may not have so many problems.


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## itm

The thing I really like about the foxsat is the ability to configure it to skip 4 mins (i.e. ads) with a single button press. Is there any way of doing this with the Tivo?


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## Pete77

itm said:


> The thing I really like about the foxsat is the ability to configure it to skip 4 mins (i.e. ads) with a single button press. Is there any way of doing this with the Tivo?


I never understand this way of thinking as ad breaks vary hugely in length from channel to channel and on some channels at some times of day they are only a minute in length, whereas on World Movies (Sky 331) they seem to be around 6 minutes in length.

I never find any problem fast forwarding through at 3x speed and then hitting the play button myself.


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## OzSat

itm said:


> The thing I really like about the foxsat is the ability to configure it to skip 4 mins (i.e. ads) with a single button press. Is there any way of doing this with the Tivo?


The | button can be set to skip a predetermined number of seconds.

Best set it to 30 seconds - which is the length on 90%+ of ads.

Press twice for 60 seconds - you get the idea.

Without testing it - I think you have to have backdoors enabled and enter Select Play Select 3 0 Select for 30 seconds


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## Pete77

ozsat said:


> The | button can be set to skip a predetermined number of seconds.
> 
> Best set it to 30 seconds - which is the length on 90%+ of ads.
> 
> Press twice for 60 seconds - you get the idea.


But you then lose the ability to use this button (the button above the 3 button with an arrow and a line on it) to jump forward to the next 15 or 30 minute marker point when fast forwarding and rewinding during recordings. For that reason I have always found it easier to use double or triple forward wind to navigate through ad breaks.


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## itm

Is it possible to configure it for 240 seconds, or is it limited to 2 digits?


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## cyril

itm said:


> The thing I really like about the foxsat is the ability to configure it to skip 4 mins (i.e. ads) with a single button press. Is there any way of doing this with the Tivo?


If you have a programmable remote (Harmony or URC) you could do this.

A tivoweb module could also be written for those of you who always have a PC next to you while watching TiVo.


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## mutant_matt2

I'm with Pete, I can't loose the original functionality of the button (skip to next marker/skip to end), and over the last 8 years, have become an expert with the 3x and 2x fast forward (actually, I think they are something like 8x and 16x speed).

I would guess the average ad break takes me approx < 10 seconds to skip...

I have tried hard to think of an HDR feature that would be possible on the TiVo, and I can't, but the other way round however.... (still want one though, if/when they sort out it's problems)

Matt


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## RichardJH

Why is there a need to skip to next marker other than to not watch that part of the programme ?


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## Pete77

RichardJH said:


> Why is there a need to skip to next marker other than to not watch that part of the programme ?


To navigate quickly through a long program eg a recorded F1 race. Also I often like to check that a program has recorded properly to the end before I start watching it.

If you always religiously watch programs from end to end and never fast forward or check they have recorded properly before you start viewing that's your choice.


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## Automan

Three models out in June but all rather expensive but can burn to BD disc!

http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_...ompatibility/2246024/index.html#anker_2246024

Automan.


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## TCM2007

Pete77 said:


> To navigate quickly through a long program eg a recorded F1 race. Also I often like to check that a program has recorded properly to the end before I start watching it.
> 
> If you always religiously watch programs from end to end and never fast forward or check they have recorded properly before you start viewing that's your choice.


Far too high a risk of a spoiler doing that! You can tell if the recording made the end by the length of the green bar. I hacked the code of the TiVo to permanently enable 30 second skip. But as you say, each to his own.


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## RichardJH

Pete77 said:


> To navigate quickly through a long program eg a recorded F1 race.


I have a macro set up on my Harmony remotes that lets me change between 30 sec skip and normal skip to marker


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## cwaring

Good news, bad news.

The bad news is that my parent's have finally dumped their LT sub'd Tivo (Boo! ) for one of these Humax Foxsat thingumybobs. The good news is that they're giving it to me 

I have to say that I am actually very impressed with this Foxsat unit. It certainly seems to do a lot of stuff that Tivo did, with only Wishlists missing I think. (Yes?)

Anyway, PQ is much better than Tivo, of course, and the HD is terrific.

Just a quick question. They only have the one satellite connection at the moment. Of course, this means that they're limited as to which channels they can record at the same time. Is there a list anywhere of which channels can and can't?

Thanks.


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## DX30

cwaring said:


> They only have the one satellite connection at the moment. Of course, this means that they're limited as to which channels they can record at the same time. Is there a list anywhere of which channels can and can't?


It's not a list, but you can download a spreadsheet here

http://www.hummy.org.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=37772&postcount=1


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## AMc

Carl, it's not that expensive to upgrade the LNB and run the second cable - assuming the dish is accessible.
For instance this kit from CPC has what you need for £28.73 + P&P
http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/level5/module.jsp?moduleId=cpc/534233.xml


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## cwaring

They aleady have a quad-LNB; just not a second cable to the main box yet  (Didn't need one for Tivo of course!)

WRT the channels you can/can't record on a single cable, I assume it's to do with the polarisation. ie you can't record a H-polarised channel while watching a V-polarised channel. Right?


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## Ashley

And high band or low band.


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## cwaring

Oh, okay. Even more complicated


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## DX30

There are even more complications when you get into the record two, watch a third territory. With a single LNB the 2nd tuner can only record from a transponder with the same band/polarisation as that the 1st tuner is recording from, but then the watch a 3rd channel has to be on one of those two transponders. You can see why Humax just say there are "limitations".


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## DX30

Duplicate Post


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## cwaring

So, within the limitations, you can actually record two and watch a third? Cool! (Just like the V+ actually )


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## cwaring

Having had a play with it now for a while I have to say it's quite good, but there's one or two little niggles; there's no 'wishlist'  and the 'schedule' (think 'To Do List') only shows _todays_ upcoming recordings. Now that's just silly 

Oh yes, and why won't it record the buffer when you're in the middle of a programme?


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## Ashley

And you can't delete a programme whilst it's recording


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## cwaring

Well you can't with a Tivo either


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## Ashley

Sorry, I should have said:
You can't delete ANY programme whilst recording.


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## cwaring

Ahh. Okay. Yeah, that's weird.


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## cyril

Lots of other niggles:
No auto-deletion, so once disk fills up you get loads of failed recordings which take quite a while to remove
Folders don't auto-remove once empty, so if you don't keep maintaining it the whole media list gets VERY cluttered.


No series link prioritisation screen, limited padding options

Much like SkyHD it seems geared to the Live TV user rather than the 'I only watch recorded tv' user.

At least you don't get your programmes spoiled by continuous sound in the EPG like on SkyHD!

The Foxsat-HDR really needs another firmware update - like SkyHD it needs a reboot every now and then when it stops responding to the remote.


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## B33K34

No auto-deletion, so once disk fills up you get loads of failed recordings which take quite a while to remove/Folders don't auto-remove once empty, so if you don't keep maintaining it the whole media list gets VERY cluttered.

- all true, but HD upgrade is a doddle (mine now has a 1tb drive)

No series link prioritisation screen, limited padding options

- but padding *should* be automatic and, with narative repeats and two tuners it's not been a problem for me yet (how much tv do you have time to watch?)

The Foxsat-HDR really needs another firmware update - like SkyHD it needs a reboot every now and then when it stops responding to the remote.-

- agreed. the firmware upgrade is also likely to enable iPlayer which should make it an awesome bit of kit.


----------



## cyril

B33K34 said:


> No auto-deletion, so once disk fills up you get loads of failed recordings which take quite a while to remove/Folders don't auto-remove once empty, so if you don't keep maintaining it the whole media list gets VERY cluttered.
> 
> - all true, but HD upgrade is a doddle (mine now has a 1tb drive)
> 
> No series link prioritisation screen, limited padding options
> 
> - but padding *should* be automatic and, with narative repeats and two tuners it's not been a problem for me yet (how much tv do you have time to watch?)


You should know me by now!
10 tuners wasn't enough in 1998 for me!
It's just about choice and a close-to-zero maintenance option.

TiVo provides a nearly maintenance-free operation if you have one for each channel you watch 

I have thousands of albums I would like to listen to (even more now with Last.Fm and Spotify). But I never have the time to listen to them all.
I do however have a very easy way to find something I like out of a list of millions of songs and play it ANYTIME I want whenever I do have free time.
It would be nice if that were true for HD programmes. Once everybody gets 100Gb fibre for cheap a Spotify-like HD programming service will make all our DVRs semi-redundant.

Being able to watch any one of several million HD programmes at ANYTIME would be great!

Here's my FoxsatHDR wishlist:
Automatic deletion like MCE, TiVo, SkyHD 
Auto-deletion of empty folders

1. Ability to add proper wishlists by actor, director,producer, keywords, title with not/and/or functions. These to be tailored over all channels or just one channel
2. Auto Prioritiser of series links and wishlists in event of clashes
3. Improved metadata so series links persist more than a month if there is a break, (in fact persist for years unless cancelled)
4. Series links for EVERY programme on every channel
5. Fully adjustable Overshoot compensation when fast forwarding
6. Info button on live TV goes as far as at least 7days if not 28 days
7. Option for Info bar on live tv has different colours for HD originated programmes
8. Option to have smaller info screen on live TV
9. Full web based interface so every function can be controlled across the internet
10. One month EPG all of which is cached locally so runs fast, just like the current 7 day one
13. Menus and EPG can be accessed without losing live pause, live pause is NEVER lost except on extended reboot - save live buffer to disk if user reboots so live buffer can be auto resumed if there is spare disk space available
14. Dynamic buffer for live pause which uses available spare disk space like ReplayTV in 1998 or FetchTV in 2008
15. Programmes you don't want in Planner/Media list are remembered and never recorded again unless told otherwise (global blocklist)
16. Quick way to delete when viewing has finished
19. Ability to assign different remote codes for each box so you can have multiple boxes in the same room without clashing
20. Ethernet enabled to add multi-room sharing of video to PC or other foxsat or Sky boxes (mp3 and pictures would also be nice)
21. View upcoming episodes functionality over all channels
22. Unlimited favourites (up to 500 channels, 100 groups as there are now 10,000+ satellite channels), full flexibility with favourites 
23. Integration with Vista/MCE DVB-S
24. option to Display full recording history and scheduled items in seperate menus/pages instead of all in one page
25. Display of all active series links and wishlists and order of priority
26. When you press record in live TV gives you the option to record the buffer as well to get the start of the programme if available
27. All preferences and settings can be stored over the internet so can be restored in event of box failure
28. Option to record in HD whenever possible - so if you accidently record or schedule an SD version it will automatically record the HD version instead, or let you know when the next HD version of a programme will be shown next
This can be a global, per channel or per series option.
29. Better clash resolution - will tell you which of the clashing programmes are repeated within the next month, so you can pick the one which doesn't get repeated. This should be customisable to work with a prioritiser as well so clashes can be automatically resolved
30. Ability to pad any programme by any amount (1minute to 12 hours) at any time, even when programme has already started
31. Save until options for each programme in planner or Anytime - so
Save until - disk space needed, 1 day, 2 day, 3days, until I delete, until I watch
32. Series links and wishlists have customisable default Save Until options, and keep 'x' number of episodes

37. Undelete
38. Share show suggestions with friends
39. Display messages (i.e. put the oven on I'm home in 15 minutes)
40. Connect with Digiguide, Amazon and other online guides/reviews and allow setting of season passes/series links/wishlists
41. Proper and quality metadata for radio shows, which can also have series links/wishlists which can also be prioritised, padded etc.
42. User customisation of onscreen graphics and logos
43. Option to not (or only) record signed programmes (this requires quality metadata)
44. Buffer/live pause intact on both tuners so when you switch between them you don't lose your place,Better buffer control- don't lose buffer when changing menus (USA DVRs can do this)
Buffer/live pause intact after playing a pre-rcorded programme
45. When attached to HD display - user definable fonts, text sizes, option for scrolling text on long episode titles etc..
46. Full Wap enabled interface (for low-tech mobile phones or people who don't want to pay high GPRS charges)
47. Full FTP
48. Connect to email,weather, traffic,news, ebay watch lists and other rss feeds, podcasts, tivocasts, youtube
49. Connect to other Sky+ or FoxsatHDR boxes to resolve any conflicts and allow operation of remote Sky+ or FoxsatHDR boxes from your current one
50. Caller ID recognisation and link to your phone address book
51. Ability to send emails with diagnostics, hard drive failure possibility, modem failure alerts, scheduled to-do-list of programmes and report why any programmes failed to record
52. Customisable background music for EPG (load your own mp3 or radio channel)
53. Display list and Auto-detection of duplicate recordings
54. In event of unresolved conflicts, auto-scheduling of the next repeat available
55. Profiles of all settings for each user, with user logons. Option to show/hide programmes dependent on profile
56. Ability to group together wishlists and series links by a name and also set validity and expiry dates

57: Full EPG series links for Radio channels, with interface to recommendations from Radio Times and other internet radio channels
58. Play at 101% to 120% speed with sound and pitch shift correct so I can watch a 60 minute show in about 50 minutes (useful for the wife's soaps)
59. Easily identify signed and dubbed programmes, and to include/exclude from series links, wishlists etc..
60. Open programmable interface so 3rd party developers may introduce controlled modular pug-ins -e.g. to link with home automation software
61. Full RS232 control
62. Connection to online VOD companies via ethernet e.g. Amazon unbox to purchase any programmes not available
63. option to automatically hide all channels of a certain type (e.g. kids) in EPG 
64. Remote or RS232 or web enabled reset/reboot
65. Option to record in SD instead of HD wherever possible for space-saving reasons (e.g. kids cartoons can be in SD instead of from BBCHD where they would eat up more disk space)
In event of an unresolved conflict, schedule programme to automatically record on any other DVR on your network, e.g second FoxsatHDR, Dreambox, SkyHD box, Sky+, TiVo, MCE
Add a 'Related series' function to every programme where you can quickly set a wishlist or series link for a related show e.g. when you bring up Doctor Who there is a related option which will show Torchwood and Sarah Jane Adventures and the Weakest Link Doctor Who special and give you the chance to record those as well
Option to auto-record series link and all 'related' or 'spin-off' shows
Option to auto-record series links and wishlists by year and/or season number e.g. I only want seasons 3 to 6 of '24' and season 2 and 3 of 'Lost'
Display Season and episode number in format SxEy e.g. S5E2 by title in EPG so it is obvious which show I should watch next as they might be broadcast out-of-order
Global blocklist to prevent recording episodes you dont want to be picked up by series links or wishlists
Fully customisable text and menu order in menu system so you can rename titles and identify boxes e.g. Foxsat Living Room, FoxsatHD bedroom
Option to filter and display only HD programmes on any channel which has mixed mode e.g. ITVHD

Support for 1.5TB drives and larger e.g. Rx8500 50TB-Enterprise Giga Storage Solution -
Option for Series links/season passes preserved during major channel changes e.g change in frequency or re-branding
Option to display expired EPG data, so you know what youve just missed and can see which episode should be coming up next as sometimes the next episode isn't in the EPG yet, and also makes it easier to find a programme and set series links/season passes
Option to record automatically the SD version of an HD version if there isn't enough space left to record the HD version but there is enough space to record the SD version, or if the HD programme is no longer available in HD e.g. Foxsat HDR fails to record S|D version if HD version on ITVHD is no longer shown in HD but is shown in SD.
Super slick search like the new TiVo one : http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=416036
The auto-standby should be customisable, just like a Windows PC.
So you can set Mon-Fri 8am-5pm off except bank holidays etc..

EPG overlaid over live TV option with transparency settings is faster

Support for video and music services like TiVo series 2 and 3 e.g. BBC iplayer,Last.Fm, Spotify,Napster,Rhapsody, Pandora, Hulu.com, Amazon music and video (unboxed), Netflix, Blockbuster video on demand,youtube, audioboo,4mations

Ability to pause/FF/rewind while EPG is overlaid

option for smarter re-schedul;ing -if you schedule a programme and the schedule changes, the current EPG usually removes it with no warning! It should give you warnings in a recording history screen and attempt to re-schedule the programme when it next appears in the EPG.

Simplify number of kepresses required - better UI design like Windows 7/ReplayTV/TiVo

More native/hybrid output options e.g.
Native - all formats output as is, without extra processing; 
Hybrid - all SD output output as 576p, all other formats output as is; 
Hybrid 720p - all SD output as 576p, all HD converted to 720p; 
Hybrid 1080i - all SD output as 576p, all HD converted to 1080i; 
Fixed 1080i - all formats converted to 1080i for output; 
Fixed 720p - all formats converted to 720p for output; 
Fixed 576p - all formats converted to 576p for output; 
Fixed 576i - all formats converted to 576i for output

Option for Last.fm playlist or other streamed internet music or a specified radio channel to replace background EPG music

Customisable EPG colours and/or shades of grey to help those who are colour blind

Removal of necessity of coloured buttons -redesign of UI and remote. There is no need to be reliant on coloured buttons in a modern UI - of course they can be used as ADDITIONAL shortcuts, but the full UI should be easily navigated without learning any shortcuts or reading any manuals

Option to default to most recent recordings at top of planner

Ability to function as an extra Sonos or Squeezebox,Slingbox, Hava client and/or controller

Ability to record, pause /rewind when in an interactive channel
Ability to record from Slingbox, Hava wireless, iplayer

Hardware:

Remote re-designed to add seperate dedicated slow-motion button (like TiVo) and navigation buttons to be larger and in central position (like TiVo),Seperate instant rewind button


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## Ashley

I think that about covers it.


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## AENG

Cyril, I think they should offer you an ex gratia consultancy fee for that!


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## cyril

AENG said:


> Cyril, I think they should offer you an ex gratia consultancy fee for that!


Not really - 95% of the features are available on a hacked TiVo!
The Foxsat HDR and SkyHD design teams should have spent £200 on a networked TiVo and studied it!

It's more or less the same wishlist for SkyHD.

I've probably missed a hundred or so extra features, but I think I got all the main ones!


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## cwaring

What's the re-sale value of these things? 

My parent's are fed-up with theirs ("wish it was more like Tivo" they say ) and are considering either returning to their Tivo (and foregoing HD) or getting cable in.


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## Pete77

cwaring said:


> My parent's are fed-up with theirs ("wish it was more like Tivo" they say ) and are considering either returning to their Tivo


Hope you have got your credit card at the ready to start paying that £10 per month again Carl?


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## cwaring

Well yeah. That thought had occured  I think they're more likely to get cable to be honest. If I have my way, anyway


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## Automan

As of today...
http://www.humaxdigital.com/uk/support/downloadcenter_model.aspx?category_seq=65

It will do it over the air but if you have a old boot loader 7.50 the only way to update it is by USB in the front slot.

Automan.


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## CarlWalters

the update for the FOXSAT-HD (non DVR) was certainly available OTA yesterday evening and I managed to get it without any problem. Apparently it supports BBC iPlayer but I haven't worked out exactly how yet (and anyway my PS3/PlayTV already does it)


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## B33K34

CarlWalters said:


> the update for the FOXSAT-HD (non DVR) was certainly available OTA yesterday evening and I managed to get it without any problem. Apparently it supports BBC iPlayer but I haven't worked out exactly how yet (and anyway my PS3/PlayTV already does it)


iPlayer is still some way off. Beta testers get a different version on of the firmware on a USB stick in the next few days so I'd be surprised if a further update isn't necessary when it comes out of Beta.

The update does improve a few things about the UI 
- can now delete whilst watching and navigate away from the deleting item (although there's no 'queue' so you can't delete another item until the first one is done :-( and it still takes 10+ seconds to delete an HD programme).
- auto deletion of empty folders
- 'new' now shows up next to folders which have unwatched programme in them
- interface may be a little 'snappier'

It's been another few months since I last wrote and my view still stands. The UI is not going to improve - it's still very clunky and unintuitive. However:
- it reliably records everything I want (series links seem to work)- i'd not want to be without HD now (even though BBC's quality is noticably worse since the bitrate was dropped and the only programme I've watched on ITV HD (murderland) was indistinguishable from SD IMO) and SD programmes look massively better without the Tivo code/decode.
- the auto start/stop works for all the channels I watch. It's very nice not to miss the end of anything.


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## EvilBoB

I have one of these and I like it. Even the wife can use it. They should allow you to add non-freesat channels though and be able to record them - that's a huge oversight in my opinion. I don't care too much about the EPG aspect but would like the option to "add" to the freeview lineup and set manual recording times


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## cwaring

EvilBoB said:


> They should allow you to add non-freesat channels though and be able to record them ...


I thought you could do this already. My dad mentioned it was possible but we haven't tried it yet.


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## AENG

I've been trying this out (now that I seem to be achieving satisfactory broadband performance from BT ).

Q1 is: Has anyone succeeded in making the Foxsat HD box work using WiFi? The BBC only recommends Cat 5 hard wiring (works fine but is inconvenient) or broadband-over-powerline adaptors (which I'm reluctant to use because of their well-known EMC shortcomings www.ukqrm.org ). If so, and not being much of a nerd myself, I'd appreciate a short how-to tutorial, perhaps via PM. I'm starting from a BT Home Hub 2.

Q2 is: Suppliers of all other commodities and services I can think of measure what they are selling you (kWh of energy, kg of potatoes or whatever) and tell you. Not so my ISP, who nevertheless will charge me if I exceed a set limit of traffic a month. There's a plethora of packages out there, most of which seem to be far more complicated than would be needed just to measure total throughput. Any recommendations of an easy-to-use metering method would be useful.


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## cwaring

Hi there!

A1. I don't see why it won't work over WiFi but I suppose you might need and 'N' rather than a 'G' connection. You would just need a suitable wireless bridge.

A2. I've used NetMeter before and it's quite good.


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## AMc

I can't speak for the Humax but iPlayer is perfectly watchable on 'g' using the PS3. Quality is about VHS and you do get glitches now and then but I think that's upstream of my network really.


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## Automan

I have used one of my ones off a Wireless Squeezebox Boombox in wireless bridge mode so okay on 'g'

Automan.


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## mccg

cwaring said:


> A1. I don't see why it won't work over WiFi but I suppose you might need and 'N' rather than a 'G' connection. You would just need a suitable wireless bridge.


There are reports on other forums (hummy, avforums, digitalspy) of it working OK over wireless, but it can be fiddly to set up - I think you will need to connect the bridge to another PC to set up security, etc.
At the moment, the maximum bit rats is 1.6Mbps so data rate should not be a problem.
But a wireless bridge (also called wireless gaming adapter) may cost more than other solutions.
fyi: I use cat5, since I already have cat 5 to my TV area for a streaming media player.


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## cwaring

mccg said:


> There are reports on other forums (hummy, avforums, digitalspy) of it working OK over wireless, but it can be fiddly to set up - I think you will need to connect the bridge to another PC to set up security, etc..


Of course. I had to do that when I set mine up for use with my Tivo


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## iankb

mccg said:


> But a wireless bridge (also called wireless gaming adapter) may cost more than other solutions.


Wireless bridges sold as gaming adapters are often crippled to only allow one connected device. Those sold as wireless bridges should allow more, whether with inclusive ports or via a switch.


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## cwaring

My parents will be getting VM cable in shortly so will be looking to sell their Humax Foxsat Freesat+ box if anyone's interested.

Just thought I'd mention it on here a little in advance, just in case


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## Pete77

cwaring said:


> My parents will be getting VM cable in shortly so will be looking to sell their Humax Foxsat Freesat+ box if anyone's interested.


Surely they won't be doing this until the new Tivo based Virgin Media box is launched and I imagine this is still a few months away and that December is quite probably the earliest likely date for its distribution to any customers.


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## cwaring

Surely my parents and I know not only _what_ we're doing, but also _why_ we're doing it now and not in six months. Wouldn't you agree? Is it possible, for example, that I haven't _explained_ why? (Mainly as it's not really relevant.)


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## Pete77

cwaring said:


> Is it possible, for example, that I haven't _explained_ why?(Mainly as it's not really relevant.)


Yes that is possible and it is why I made my suggestion since I didn't know your parents had an urgent reason to get rid of Freesat and get a non Tivo Virgin HD box.


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## cwaring

Pete77 said:


> Yes that is possible and it is why I made my suggestion since I didn't know your parents had an urgent reason to get rid of Freesat and get a non Tivo Virgin HD box.


They don't. They're getting rid of the Freesat box when they have VM installed in less than a couple of weeks time.


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## Pete77

cwaring said:


> They don't. They're getting rid of the Freesat box when they have VM installed in less than a couple of weeks time.


So as previous Tvo users familiar with its benefits why didn't they wait until Virgin released their Tivo units before moving over to Virgin media.

If they move now and get an old Virgin Media box they are sure to have to pay a lot extra or have to wait a long time (eg at least one year till they are out of contract) to get upgraded to a Virgin Tivo.


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## mikerr

VirginMedia don't operate like a phone company, with contract upgrades etc,
neither do they operate like sky with you buying/owning the box 

Once TiVo software is available on the VM network, it will be available to all either by an OTA update or new hardware.

Remember you're renting a service, and they're providing the equipment for free...


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## Pete77

mikerr said:


> Once TiVo software is available on the VM network, it will be available to all either by an OTA update or new hardware.
> 
> Remember you're renting a service, and they're providing the equipment for free...


But it may well turn out that not all existing hardware can run Tivo software and that some or all of the current units have to be upgraded by replacement. If that is the case one surely cannot expect Virgin to be able to upgrade all the equipment within just a few weeks.

Surely there must also be some minimum period of contractual commitment with Virgin with the existing equipment provided as they clearly must incur significant additional costs in carrying out a new equipment install at a customer address.


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## AMc

IIRC they existing V+ boxes from Scientific Atlanta (?) run Tivo software in the States.
As VM know they're going to be putting out a Tivo service in the next few months I doubt they'll be hamstringing new customers with boxes that can't be upgraded down the wire when the time comes.

Give Carl's long standing experitise about Virgin Media I doubt very much he hasn't thought this through carefully.


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## cwaring

Pete77 said:


> So as previous Tvo users familiar with its benefits why didn't they wait until Virgin released their Tivo units before moving over to Virgin media.


Because I've been trying to get them onto VM for the last three years!! 



> If they move now and get an old Virgin Media box they are sure to have to pay a lot extra or have to wait a long time (eg at least one year till they are out of contract) to get upgraded to a Virgin Tivo.


Really? What's your source for this information? As far as I know, VM haven't released any such information.



AMc said:


> Give Carl's long standing experitise about Virgin Media I doubt very much he hasn't thought this through carefully.


But Pete77 knows better than everyone? Haven't you realised that by now?


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## mikerr

That was just pete assuming you're stuck with the same box for the length of your contract. Not the way VM works as we know.


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## RichardJH

Pete is definitely a maybe probably but man with surely cannot expect added in for good measure


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## iankb

cwaring said:


> But Pete77 knows better than everyone?


To Pete, assumptions are knowledge.


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## cwaring

That was supposed to be an exclamation point not a question mark


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## RichardJH

Carl if you were interested a Tivo this morning went for the grand sum of £16 on the bay Item number: 250654620740


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## cwaring

Oh good grief  Wrong thread, btw


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## RichardJH

yes sorry about the wrong thread.Should really have gone to bed earlier to recharge the old brain cell


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## cwaring

Just before it goes on eBay.

Basic unit. Probably the 320gb model. (Certainly not the 'special edition' 500GB version!) Still in excellent condition. Well looked after. Smoke-free environment. Still got original box too!

£180 + £10 p&p


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## Pete77

cwaring said:


> Basic unit. Probably the 320gb model. (Certainly not the 'special edition' 500GB version!) Still in excellent condition. Well looked after. Smoke-free environment. Still got original box too!
> 
> £180 + £10 p&p


Only if it has a Lifetime Sub and a Cachecard. Otherwise £50 sounds the nearer to the mark as a best case.


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## mikerr

Pete77 said:


> Only if it has a Lifetime Sub and a Cachecard. Otherwise £50 sounds the nearer to the mark as a best case.


Except it's not a tivo, it's a foxsat HDR....


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## Pete77

mikerr said:


> Except it's not a tivo, it's a foxsat HDR....


Good Point.

In which case I would have thought £120 was nearer to the mark in view of the reduced price of brand new Freesat From BBC PVR boxes.


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## cwaring

Pete77 said:


> Only if it has a Lifetime Sub and a Cachecard. Otherwise £50 sounds the nearer to the mark as a best case.





mikerr said:


> Except it's not a tivo, it's a foxsat HDR....


I assumed he knew that but was just having a bit of fun. Looks like I was wrong 



Pete77 said:


> In which case I would have thought £120 was nearer to the mark in view of the reduced price of brand new Freesat From BBC PVR boxes.


Well, having done my due diligence, that's the price they can (ie mostly) go for on eBay.


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