# Coming back to Tivo and will be using MOCA - A few questions



## tgoulart (Dec 21, 2013)

I was a Lifetime sub for DirecTV with Tivo up until 10 years ago. I subsequently moved have been with TWC ever since. I am about to add a 3rd TV and want to go back to Tivo. I am considering a Bolt 1TB box along with 2 minis. My current setup is coax into the house with an amplifiers and splitters wired (via coax) to 5 rooms. Only 2 of the locations have TV's today (office and family room) but I have confirmed a signal at each of the other 3 locations.

I will place the Bolt in my office next to the router and have one mini in the family room and the other in the master bedroom ("new" location). Since I don't have ethernet throughout the house I plan on using MOCA.

If I connect the Bolt to my router and then connect the coax coming from the wall (and perform the appropriate set up and configuration on the Bolt), can I assume it's as easy as connecting the 2 minis to the coax coming from the wall? Don't know if it matters, but I also have home phone from TWC.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

tgoulart said:


> I was a Lifetime sub for DirecTV with Tivo up until 10 years ago. I subsequently moved have been with TWC ever since. I am about to add a 3rd TV and want to go back to Tivo. I am considering a Bolt 1TB box along with 2 minis. My current setup is coax into the house with an amplifiers and splitters wired (via coax) to 5 rooms. Only 2 of the locations have TV's today (office and family room) but I have confirmed a signal at each of the other 3 locations.
> 
> I will place the Bolt in my office next to the router and have one mini in the family room and the other in the master bedroom ("new" location). Since I don't have ethernet throughout the house I plan on using MOCA.
> 
> If I connect the Bolt to my router and then connect the coax coming from the wall (and perform the appropriate set up and configuration on the Bolt), can I assume it's as easy as connecting the 2 minis to the coax coming from the wall? Don't know if it matters, but I also have home phone from TWC.


That's sounds like a good plan. A few things to consider:

In the setup that you described, you will have Bolt create MoCA, and Minis would connect to internet and host via MoCA (coaxial)

Make sure the splitters are MoCA compatible.

See below for an example:

https://www.amazon.com/Verizon-Spli...458&sr=1-1&keywords=verizon+moca+splitter+2.0

You will need a POE filter to where the main cable feed comes into the house, and potentially to the modem input.

Not sure if your cable company requires tuning adapters for SDV channels.

Since you will have three tv totals, and Minis will use two out of the four tuners on "base" Bolt, you may want to consider the six-tuner Bolt+ (has 3 TB of space), or even a Roamio Pro (cheaper than Bolt+, but not by much, and also it is previous generation).

That's what I can say, I am sure others may have more.

P.S. Amplifier can do funny things to MoCA. See if you don't need it at all.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

tgoulart said:


> I was a Lifetime sub for DirecTV with Tivo up until 10 years ago. I subsequently moved have been with TWC ever since. I am about to add a 3rd TV and want to go back to Tivo. I am considering a Bolt 1TB box along with 2 minis. My current setup is coax into the house with an amplifiers and splitters wired (via coax) to 5 rooms. Only 2 of the locations have TV's today (office and family room) but I have confirmed a signal at each of the other 3 locations.
> 
> I will place the Bolt in my office next to the router and have one mini in the family room and the other in the master bedroom ("new" location). Since I don't have ethernet throughout the house I plan on using MOCA.
> 
> If I connect the Bolt to my router and then connect the coax coming from the wall (and perform the appropriate set up and configuration on the Bolt), can I assume it's as easy as connecting the 2 minis to the coax coming from the wall? Don't know if it matters, but I also have home phone from TWC.


The location of the Bolt nearby the router is good and you can use the "create a MoCA network" on the Bolt. 
The part of your post which give me pause is the "amplifiers and splitters" statement. This indicates questionable coax runs and either poor quality materials or workmanship. The main reasons for MoCA problems are exactly that kind of setup, incompatible amps, poor quality cabling or cascaded splitters etc. 
How many amps do you have and what is their make and model number?
You will need probably 2 MoCA filters, one for the input of the first splitter to enter your home (POE, Point of Entry). one more for the tuning adapter, which I believe TWC uses, and possibly a 3rd for the input of the TWC gateway/cable modem if it is not MoCA friendly.
If you can provide a diagram or even a hand drawing of your coax / equipment setup it would be very helpful.


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## tgoulart (Dec 21, 2013)

Thanks for the responses. I do plan on taking an inventory of the splitters and amplifiers in the basement this evening and also make sure I can trace the routes of the cables to the various destinations.


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## newsmark (Jul 13, 2005)

tgoulart said:


> Thanks for the responses. I do plan on taking an inventory of the splitters and amplifiers in the basement this evening and also make sure I can trace the routes of the cables to the various destinations.


When I was installing, the only splitters I could find locally that would handle the MOCA frequencies were designated "satellite" in the store packaging. They work fine.


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## tgoulart (Dec 21, 2013)

Here's my wiring diagram. Your further thoughts are appreciated. The outputs from the splitter top right marked UNK go to rooms but were not marked. I believe one goes to a BR and another goes to a mud room. Neither of these are used.


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## wthomas69 (Nov 28, 2009)

tgoulart said:


> I was a Lifetime sub for DirecTV with Tivo up until 10 years ago. I subsequently moved have been with TWC ever since. I am about to add a 3rd TV and want to go back to Tivo. I am considering a Bolt 1TB box along with 2 minis. My current setup is coax into the house with an amplifiers and splitters wired (via coax) to 5 rooms. Only 2 of the locations have TV's today (office and family room) but I have confirmed a signal at each of the other 3 locations.
> 
> I will place the Bolt in my office next to the router and have one mini in the family room and the other in the master bedroom ("new" location). Since I don't have ethernet throughout the house I plan on using MOCA.
> 
> If I connect the Bolt to my router and then connect the coax coming from the wall (and perform the appropriate set up and configuration on the Bolt), can I assume it's as easy as connecting the 2 minis to the coax coming from the wall? Don't know if it matters, but I also have home phone from TWC.


 something to consider and just my two cents worth. I recently bought a refurbished 500 GB bolt directly from TiVo's website it was on sale for 125 instead of the normal 150. I then purchased to TiVo minis from Amazon, last week they were $149 each today they are $130 each. So for less than $400 you can have all of your hardware. It is just me and my wife in our home and we are pretty good about deleting shows after we watch them so the 500 gig model was plenty for us. My wife loves the ability to use only one box to watch live TV, recorded shows from the DVR, and streaming services like YouTube and Netflix. I also had one room where I wanted to use a mini but in my case I chose ethernet over power line rather than mocha. I have never used mocha so I can't say anything about it. But I knew the ethernet over power line adapter worked because I have use them in my sons room (away in college) where he connected his PS four and was easily able to do online gaming and streaming using the adapter. Good luck and enjoy.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

wthomas69 said:


> something to consider and just my two cents worth. I recently bought a refurbished 500 GB bolt directly from TiVo's website it was on sale for 125 instead of the normal 150. I then purchased to TiVo minis from Amazon, last week they were $149 each today they are $130 each. So for less than $400 you can have all of your hardware. It is just me and my wife in our home and we are pretty good about deleting shows after we watch them so the 500 gig model was plenty for us. My wife loves the ability to use only one box to watch live TV, recorded shows from the DVR, and streaming services like YouTube and Netflix. I also had one room where I wanted to use a mini but in my case I chose ethernet over power line rather than mocha. I have never used mocha so I can't say anything about it. But I knew the ethernet over power line adapter worked because I have use them in my sons room (away in college) where he connected his PS four and was easily able to do online gaming and streaming using the adapter. Good luck and enjoy.


Powerline can be hit or miss.

If you have coax in every room, try to use MoCa . See the thread I just started with my own experiences:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=543885


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## steelersruleman (Aug 29, 2014)

thyname said:


> Powerline can be hit or miss.
> 
> If you have coax in every room, try to use MoCa . See the thread I just started with my own experiences:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=543885


Powerline has come a very long way, and the newer Powerline Adapters work extremely well. Much better than ones made 5-7 years ago.

I have TWC out of Western PA. I have Ultimate Internet with download speeds of 50Mbps, and uploads of 5-6Mbps.

I use a Netgear 6300 Wifi Router, connected to a SB183 Modem.

TWC DOES use SDV, so a tuning adapter, plus M-cable card is necessary for EVERY TIVO(outside of OTA).

I use the Netgear Powerline Adapter(PLP1200-100PAS). I use over 4 adapters around the house.

Connected to the Powerline Adapter, I get about 40-43Mbps Download, and the 5Mbps Upload.

On older Adapters, i was "lucky" to get 10Mbps, which for Tivo Streaming, or Mini's(I use one), it was pretty useless.

But those PLP1200-100PAS did the trick. They are the latest available, and do work really well.

Another option to consider is a WiFi Extender in one of the rooms. I use a Linksys AC750 WiFi extender in one room. It has an Ethernet Port on the bottom of the unit, and speeds on that are even better than the Powerline(I get my expected 50Mbps or higher on Download).

With the WiFi extender though, I think you can only use one in the house at a time since they would interfere with each other.

Not 100% sure on that, but they may.

Good Luck.

P.S. I use/have a TIVO Roamio 4-tuner.


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## tgoulart (Dec 21, 2013)

thyname said:


> Powerline can be hit or miss.
> 
> If you have coax in every room, try to use MoCa . See the thread I just started with my own experiences:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=543885


Thanks Thyname. I already use a powerline adapter which works really well in another room. Since the master bedroom is the only place getting an ethernet run will be very difficult, I am considering not moving forward with the MOCA and using the powerline adapter fot the bedroom location. I am also not in love at all wiht the idea of a large adapter.

Having said that, I will read through your thread.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

tgoulart said:


> Thanks Thyname. I already use a powerline adapter which works really well in another room. Since the master bedroom is the only place getting an ethernet run will be very difficult, I am considering not moving forward with the MOCA and using the powerline adapter fot the bedroom location. I am also not in love at all wiht the idea of a large adapter.
> 
> Having said that, I will read through your thread.


That's the third tv location (based on your original post), right? And you have coax there?

If you do have coax there, just to be clear, you don't need a MoCA adapter, Mini has it built in. In other words, your Bolt (next to the router) will create the MoCA network, and Mini will simply join it via the coax run to the bedroom.

I don't see why not trying it this way first.


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## tgoulart (Dec 21, 2013)

thyname said:


> That's the third tv location (based on your original post), right? And you have coax there?
> 
> If you do have coax there, just to be clear, you don't need a MoCA adapter, Mini has it built in. In other words, your Bolt (next to the router) will create the MoCA network, and Mini will simply join it via the coax run to the bedroom.
> 
> I don't see why not trying it this way first.


Thanks. I understand and you do have the locations correct. I'm not crazy with the idea of the large adapter. Part of the reasons for me doing this is to "skinny down" the size and number of devices. We will likely be building an addition next year, and the current master bedroom will become a guest room. When the addition is complete, I will have ethernet every where I need it. It's likely we won't use the TV in what is now the current master bedroom at all when the building is complete.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

tgoulart said:


> Here's my wiring diagram. Your further thoughts are appreciated. The outputs from the splitter top right marked UNK go to rooms but were not marked. I believe one goes to a BR and another goes to a mud room. Neither of these are used.


Hi again,
If I am reading your diagram correctly, there is a fair chance that you will not need either of the amps and can replace them with simple low loss barrel connectors which is what I recommend. Only use /connect coax that is being used.
If you determine that your signal is not strong enough, you might consider placing that Antronix amp first, just before the 3 unbalanced 3 way splitter and see if that gives you adequate signal quality. The 3dB port on the 3 way should give you the strongest/ cleanest signal so you might have to experiment switching things around to see which works best for you.
You will also need a MoCA POE /Whole Home DVR filter which I recommend you place on the input of that 3 way splitter.
You don't mention which cable modem you use or if the cable company uses Tuning Adapters, but you may need additional filters for these devices.


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## tgoulart (Dec 21, 2013)

fcfc2 said:


> Hi again,
> If I am reading your diagram correctly, there is a fair chance that you will not need either of the amps and can replace them with simple low loss barrel connectors which is what I recommend. Only use /connect coax that is being used.
> If you determine that your signal is not strong enough, you might consider placing that Antronix amp first, just before the 3 unbalanced 3 way splitter and see if that gives you adequate signal quality. The 3dB port on the 3 way should give you the strongest/ cleanest signal so you might have to experiment switching things around to see which works best for you.
> You will also need a MoCA POE /Whole Home DVR filter which I recommend you place on the input of that 3 way splitter.
> You don't mention which cable modem you use or if the cable company uses Tuning Adapters, but you may need additional filters for these devices.


Thanks for these details. I was hoping someone would comment on the switches and amp. I did just realize I do have one of the cables in the diagram flowing in the wrong direction (arrow at the wrong end). I'm sure you realized the bottom connector in the first splitter in the sequence is sending the signal *TO* the amp. Essentially the amp is amplifying the signals sent to the points physically furthest from the incoming line from the street; essentially the second floor and mudroom.

I have my own Cable Modem...ARRIS SURFboard SB6141. And everything I've read leads me to conclude I will need the tuning adapter (TWC cable) if I use MOCA.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

tgoulart said:


> I'm not crazy with the idea of the large adapter.


Not sure what you are referring to when saying "large adapter". As I said, when/if using MoCA, there is no adapter required with Mini. Basically, there is a coax cable coming from the wall to the Mini, and that's it.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

tgoulart said:


> Thanks for these details. I was hoping someone would comment on the switches and amp. I did just realize I do have one of the cables in the diagram flowing in the wrong direction (arrow at the wrong end). I'm sure you realized the bottom connector in the first splitter in the sequence is sending the signal *TO* the amp. Essentially the amp is amplifying the signals sent to the points physically furthest from the incoming line from the street; essentially the second floor and mudroom.
> 
> I have my own Cable Modem...ARRIS SURFboard SB6141. And everything I've read leads me to conclude I will need the tuning adapter (TWC cable) if I use MOCA.


The way I read your diagram, you have one amp feeding another amp and both of them are only feeding one coax to the MBR. The only signal that will be traveling to the MBR is the MoCA frequency feeding one mini. Unless your coax and or fittings are of extremely poor quality or the length of that run exceeds 300 ft., it should not require nor benefit from any amplification. Generally amps which are MoCA friendly are referred to as "MoCA Bypass" amps, meaning that only the lower <1GHz frequencies are being boosted, and nothing is done to the higher MoCA frequencies at all. Since only MoCA is going to the MBR, the barrel connectors are the best bet.
You will need one additional 2 way splitter (MoCA rated recommended) to feed the TA and the other leg going to the Tivo DVR. A second MoCA filter should be placed on the leg feeding the TA. You may want to use that 3dB leg from the 3 way to feed the TA/Tivo splitter.
EDIT: Your cable modem has a builtin MoCA filter so none is needed for it.


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## tgoulart (Dec 21, 2013)

thyname said:


> Not sure what you are referring to when saying "large adapter". As I said, when/if using MoCA, there is no adapter required with Mini. Basically, there is a coax cable coming from the wall to the Mini, and that's it.


Apologies if I am not being clear. I understand no digital tuning adapter is needed with the minis. I am understanding I need an adapter with the Bolt as TWC is my provider. And this adapter approximates the size of a cable box.

Can someone also confirm (I can't find the thread) that I will lose TWC On Demand as well as Start Over?


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## steelersruleman (Aug 29, 2014)

tgoulart said:


> Apologies if I am not being clear. I understand no digital tuning adapter is needed with the minis. I am understanding I need an adapter with the Bolt as TWC is my provider. And this adapter approximates the size of a cable box.
> 
> Can someone also confirm (I can't find the thread) that I will lose TWC On Demand as well as Start Over?


Yes. You lose BOTH on Demand and Start Over when using a Tuning Adapter, and M-CableCard with TWC.

You need their STB for these services.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

tgoulart said:


> Apologies if I am not being clear. I understand no digital tuning adapter is needed with the minis. I am understanding I need an adapter with the Bolt as TWC is my provider. And this adapter approximates the size of a cable box.
> 
> Can someone also confirm (I can't find the thread) that I will lose TWC On Demand as well as Start Over?


Got it. You were talking about Tuning Adapter. Sorry I thought you were talking about MoCA adapter.

I don't have TWC, but from the poster (quoted below from another poster in this thread), it seems like you need one, which goes where the Bolt is.



steelersruleman said:


> TWC DOES use SDV, so a tuning adapter, plus M-cable card is necessary for EVERY TIVO(outside of OTA).


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## tgoulart (Dec 21, 2013)

thyname said:


> Got it. You were talking about Tuning Adapter. Sorry I thought you were talking about MoCA adapter.
> 
> I don't have TWC, but from the poster (quoted below from another poster in this thread), it seems like you need one, which goes where the Bolt is.


AHA! I completely missed this important (to me) fact. I don't know whay I assumed I would not need the Tuning Adapter with ethernet, but I did. :down:

So it sounds as though I can't avoid having one. Have to wonder what the Charter purchase of TWC will do, but since I am in Maine, I'm sure we are towards the bottom of any priority list when it comes to service upgrades.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

tgoulart said:


> Apologies if I am not being clear. I understand no digital tuning adapter is needed with the minis. I am understanding I need an adapter with the Bolt as TWC is my provider. And this adapter approximates the size of a cable box.
> 
> Can someone also confirm (I can't find the thread) that I will lose TWC On Demand as well as Start Over?


Yes you will lose On Demand and Start over via Tivo anyway. I am not on TWC but you may be able to get it via one of their apps but a TWC customer will have to confirm or deny.
The TA is only needed for a Tivo DVR not the minis.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

tgoulart said:


> AHA! I completely missed this important (to me) fact. I don't know whay I assumed I would not need the Tuning Adapter with ethernet, but I did. :down:
> 
> So it sounds as though I can't avoid having one. Have to wonder what the Charter purchase of TWC will do, but since I am in Maine, I'm sure we are towards the bottom of any priority list when it comes to service upgrades.


Tuning adapter is not a big deal. It is relatively small, and there are no monthly fees to have one from TWC.

I used to have one with Cox when I had Cox, but I don't have one now, as Verizon FIOS does not require one. Obviously, it is best not to need one, but if it is needed, there is nothing you can do.

As fcfc2 said, the tuning adapter is needed for the TiVo DVR (such as Bolt), and NOT needed for the Minis.


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## wthomas69 (Nov 28, 2009)

thyname said:


> Tuning adapter is not a big deal. It is relatively small, and there are no monthly fees to have one from TWC.
> 
> I used to have one with Cox when I had Cox, but I don't have one now, as Verizon FIOS does not require one. Obviously, it is best not to need one, but if it is needed, there is nothing you can do.
> 
> As fcfc2 said, the tuning adapter is needed for the TiVo DVR (such as Bolt), and NOT needed for the Minis.


What is a tuning adapter, and what is it for???


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

wthomas69 said:


> What is a tuning adapter, and what is it for???


It is required from the majority of the cable providers for the CableCard on TiVo to decode the Switched Digital Video (SDV) channels. Note that only a portion of channels are SDV, depending on the provider. If you don't care for channels in your lineup that are SDV, skip the TA.


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