# Early Term Fee for advanced equipment now $240/yr



## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

For advanced equipment leased after 10/17/07 the ETF (early termination fee for breaking your agreement) is now $240 year ($480 for a 2yr agreement) or $20/per unused month in your contract.

For standard equipment it's now 18 months required instead of 12 for total of $360.

(Thanks rminsk  )


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

Wow. Got in just in time. 10/4/07.

This COMMITMENT crap is out of hand. Should AT LEAST have some reasonable grace period of 60 days.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

ETF - Early Termination Fee


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

Thanks 


rminsk said:


> ETF - Early Termination Fee


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

They lock you in for 2 years, and then add insult to injury.

What a bunch of crap.


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## IMA_TV_ADDICT (Sep 11, 2006)

Sir_winealot said:


> They lock you in for 2 years, and then add insult to injury.
> 
> What a bunch of crap.


You could also say "I'm buying a DVR from them for $480, and they are allowing me to pay it off at $20 a month for 2 years, with no interest or finance charge. And, to make it even better for me, as long as I stay with them as a customer they are going to make my $20 a month payments for me, so at the end of the 2 years I'll have this nice DVR, and I won't have to pay anything for it."

It's all a matter of perspective.....


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

IMA_TV_ADDICT said:


> You could also say "I'm buying a DVR from them for $480, and they are allowing me to pay it off at $20 a month for 2 years, with no interest or finance charge. And, to make it even better for me, as long as I stay with them as a customer they are going to make my $20 a month payments for me, so at the end of the 2 years I'll have this nice DVR, and I won't have to pay anything for it."
> 
> It's all a matter of perspective.....


Except you never own the box and if you fail to return it you'll owe much more money, and, oh, yeah!, don't forget that you had to pay (normally) some up-front cost to get the box to begin with.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

IMA_TV_ADDICT said:


> You could also say "I'm buying a DVR from them for $480, and they are allowing me to pay it off at $20 a month for 2 years, with no interest or finance charge. And, to make it even better for me, as long as I stay with them as a customer they are going to make my $20 a month payments for me, so at the end of the 2 years I'll have this nice DVR, and I won't have to pay anything for it."
> 
> It's all a matter of perspective.....


Except that it's more like this:

"I'm buying a DVR from them for $779 and they are allowing me to pay it off at $20 a month for 2 years with no interest charges. And to make it better for me they have agreed to make those $20 payments for me for as long as I stay a customer, so at the end of the 2 years I'll have this nice DVR that I only paid $299 for. Well, at least until I leave, then I have to give them back the DVR I paid $299 for."

Some people are getting some or all of that $299 fee credited to them as well, but not everyone, and not anyone who's "buying" it in stores.

I'm very happy to have DirecTV out of my life... or rather to have this latest incarnation of DirecTV out of my life. There's absolutely nothing about their customer service practices that is appealing in any way anymore.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

Edit: LOL, dswallow said it better.

Not really. For many people it's: I'm paying $299.99 (or $199.99 or $99.99) to lease an HD-DVR PLUS they are giving me the privledge if paying off an additional $480 over 2 years at $20/month. 


IMA_TV_ADDICT said:


> You could also say "I'm buying a DVR from them for $480, and they are allowing me to pay it off at $20 a month for 2 years, with no interest or finance charge. And, to make it even better for me, as long as I stay with them as a customer they are going to make my $20 a month payments for me, so at the end of the 2 years I'll have this nice DVR, and I won't have to pay anything for it."
> 
> It's all a matter of perspective.....


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## cyphers72 (Jul 8, 2002)

My 4 new TiVo S3 boxes arrived this morning and the cable guy comes tomorrow with a small fleet of cable cards. This 17-year dedicated DirecTV subscriber will be calling to cancel tomorrow. I feel like I'm breaking out of jail with all this cool new TiVo functionality only available with Cable.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

cyphers72 said:


> My 4 new TiVo S3 boxes arrived this morning and the cable guy comes tomorrow with a small fleet of cable cards. This 17-year dedicated DirecTV subscriber will be calling to cancel tomorrow. I feel like I'm breaking out of jail with all this cool new TiVo functionality only available with Cable.


Please stop back later and tell us what the joy of SDV is when your cable company switches to same and the S3 boxes only get a small group of channels instead of the majority that you hoped to get.


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## coachO (Nov 26, 2004)

I agree with Sir Whine. However, I have to add the first line.

They send you a crap HR20. Then you get a two committment when you activate it so you can verify the crap HR20. If you don't want the crap HR20 you get a termination fee.

I would have loved to have been in the staff meeting when the guy made this pitch. It had to be a riot with the last guy saying "by the time the consumer figures this out, it will be too late, haha" 

ps. the above is based on my personal experience, YMMV.


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## David Scavo (Dec 14, 1999)

IMA_TV_ADDICT said:


> You could also say "I'm buying a DVR from them for $480, and they are allowing me to pay it off at $20 a month for 2 years, with no interest or finance charge. And, to make it even better for me, as long as I stay with them as a customer they are going to make my $20 a month payments for me, so at the end of the 2 years I'll have this nice DVR, and I won't have to pay anything for it." It's all a matter of perspective.....


Except that in this thread (quoting the DirecTV conf call) says that an HD-DVR only costs them $220 (and only $140 next year).

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5679916&&#post5679916

Such a deal !


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## David Scavo (Dec 14, 1999)

coachO said:


> I agree with Sir Whine. However, I have to add the first line.
> 
> They send you a crap HR20. Then you get a two committment when you activate it so you can verify the crap HR20. If you don't want the crap HR20 you get a termination fee.


Of course now you get lucky to get a crap HR20, most folks are getting the ultra-crap HR21 with no OTA support.

Zing !


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

bdowell said:


> Please stop back later and tell us what the joy of SDV is when your cable company switches to same and the S3 boxes only get a small group of channels instead of the majority that you hoped to get.


I can't help with that since my cable provider has no current SDV plans and there will likely be a solution before that ever happens with them. I can tell you about the joys of my satellite provider obsoleting my 2 year old HD DVR if you'd like to hear that one.


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## coachO (Nov 26, 2004)

David: Touché

And more and more people are keeping their HR10 in operation after getting an HR20 so D* gets a few more dollars.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

David Scavo said:


> Except that in this thread (quoting the DirecTV conf call) says that an HD-DVR only costs them $220 (and only $140 next year).
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5679916&&#post5679916
> 
> Such a deal !


Incorrect. As stated on the conference call the HD-DVR (HR20/HR21) currently costs DirecTV $430-$440 each and they hope to have that down to $250 by end of 1st quarter 2008.

The non-DVR, the H20/H21, is what costs $220 and hope to get down to $140. And that receiver is given away free like it's candy.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

bonscott87 said:


> Incorrect. As stated on the conference call the HD-DVR (HR20/HR21) currently costs DirecTV $430-$440 each and they hope to have that down to $250 by end of 1st quarter 2008.
> 
> The non-DVR, the H20/H21, is what costs $220 and hope to get down to $140. And that receiver is given away free like it's candy.


Either way, it hardly seems that the economics of manufacturing the hardware is why there was such a drastic increase in the commitment penalty. And certainly by March 2008 it's pretty likely that the wholesale price that retail stores pay in order to sell the HR21 at $299 is likely to cover the full cost to manufacture the unit...

...so...

1) Why keep them as lease-only for the $299? Why not just sell them for $299? Or better yet, why not sell them for $299 with no commitment change, lease them for free with a commitment and even lease them for a fee with no commitment?

2) Why go increasing the commitment penalty so much all at once? And why is it related to DVR vs. non DVR and have nothing to do with quantity of receivers?

...and as usual...

Why have any commitment at all? Do you think your service is so bad that the only way to keep subscribers is to make it financially painful for them to leave whenver they want, hoping they just stick around and forget about it by the time the penalty to leave early is low enough to be considered affordable by the customer?

It just seems very disingenuous the way DirecTV is hitting everyone with lease fees, commitment penalties and more. They've managed to become at least as bad, if not worse, than the average cell phone service provider, and have swapped places with the average cable company as the customer-unfriendly, money-grabbing, impersonal big corporate entity.

I remember how I used to be so very, very pro-DirecTV. Frankly, I'm amazed at how the tables have turned. It really took a great deal of effort for DirecTV to alienate me. And they managed to do so pretty well in less than a year. I'm impressed. And I don't think that's the way they intended to impress people.


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## cramer (Aug 14, 2000)

Face it. The only reason for these commitments is to force people to get used to the sub-standard, non-tivo DVR. And when the 2 years are up for the early adopters, I don't expect many to be dropping DTV; they've used it long enough to be used to it -- much like breaking a horse.

The whole leasing equipment thing is 100% to make money. They are basically making you pay for a device you don't own, and have to eventually return -- which equates to "buy the company a new DVR." If you fail to return the box and/or fail to meet the 2yr terms, they _really_ screw you; at that point, it's 100% profit... the replacement cost is well beyond the purchase price; the returned unit will be "sold" to the next sucker.

However, it's not as bad as cable company rentals where you will continue to pay for the same hardware over and over. It is this income cable companies are fighting ruthlessly to protect by constantly changing their minds about standards and otherwise screwing things up so only their rented hardware works. (SDV, "additional outlet fees", refusing to provide M-Cards so they can charge you for 2 cards (and 2 "outlets"), messing up the mirroring of both cards, and otherwise making the mysteriously stop working...)


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## barry728 (Apr 14, 2003)

dswallow said:


> Either way, it hardly seems that the economics of manufacturing the hardware is why there was such a drastic increase in the commitment penalty. And certainly by March 2008 it's pretty likely that the wholesale price that retail stores pay in order to sell the HR21 at $299 is likely to cover the full cost to manufacture the unit...
> 
> ...so...
> 
> ...


Well said. I couldn't agree more. The tremendous goodwill I use to have for them is gone. They've turned into the cable company I use to hate and I couldn't wait to get away from. Their short term profit corporate bonus think will come back to haunt them. Reminds me of US automakers.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

Generally retail and online stores pay very close to full price for the equipment. Their profit comes from the "commission" they get when the box is activated which is why the store receipts say "you will be subject to a $150 charge if the box is not activated within 60 days." There is also somewhere around $300 per new sub for residential accounts (but if the accounts are cancelled before 1yr most of that is charged back to the dealer). Just like the cell phone industry.


dswallow said:


> certainly by March 2008 it's pretty likely that the wholesale price that retail stores pay in order to sell the HR21 at $299 is likely to cover the full cost to manufacture the unit...


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## 20TIL6 (Sep 7, 2006)

bdowell said:


> Please stop back later and tell us what the joy of SDV is when your cable company switches to same and the S3 boxes only get a small group of channels instead of the majority that you hoped to get.


I'll be sure to let you know as well. I'm in the Houston market, and I have had S3 boxes and cable for at least 18 months. When the HD unit was released, I picked up one of those as well.

Houston used to be serviced by TWC, then things were transferred to Comcast. We've had HD channels added to our lineup since then, maybe a dozen or more, and there has not been even the slightest mention of SDV.

Like it was already mentioned, there will be a TiVo solution to SDV before I develop what could even be called a minor concern over it. It seems to me that the people without a cablecard TiVo talk about this more than the people who do.

In the meantime, I'll enjoy all the wonderful usability and features of a standalone TiVo. MRV, TTG, Unbox has just made my decision to leave DTV that much wiser.

I was a 12+ year subscriber of DTV before leaving. And I was a huge proponent of them. But in my opinion, they have definitely taken a turn for the worse. The fact that they offer you no grace period to try their equipment before locking you into an agreement... that pretty much sums it up.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

dswallow said:


> It just seems very disingenuous the way DirecTV is hitting everyone with lease fees, commitment penalties and more.


they are becoming like your neighborhood bank. Invest now! may as well reap the benefits right? We have some bank stock but no accounts at any banks. Credit unions rule


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## garywj (May 3, 2005)

The "ETF" is nothing but an admition by D* that they will not live up to their commitments and will disappoint customers resulting in customers wanting to leave. They want a commitment from their customers but they have no commitment to their customers. I can't begin to count the number of times I have been mislead or outright lied to by D*.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

dswallow said:


> 1) Why keep them as lease-only for the $299? Why not just sell them for $299? Or better yet, why not sell them for $299 with no commitment change, lease them for free with a commitment and even lease them for a fee with no commitment?


According to the conference call Chase talked about starting in 2008 to see the "rewards" of the leasing model by capturing back receivers from those that churn and thus they send those back out to new customers which means their costs are a lot less as they don't need to make so many new boxes. Personally I don't like that myself and I'll go "buy" a receiver in the store to make sure I get a new one, but at the end of the day DirecTV is doing nothing different then either Dish or cable. They were last to the party in terms of leasing.



> 2) Why go increasing the commitment penalty so much all at once? And why is it related to DVR vs. non DVR and have nothing to do with quantity of receivers?


Got me.



> Why have any commitment at all? Do you think your service is so bad that the only way to keep subscribers is to make it financially painful for them to leave whenver they want, hoping they just stick around and forget about it by the time the penalty to leave early is low enough to be considered affordable by the customer?
> 
> It just seems very disingenuous the way DirecTV is hitting everyone with lease fees, commitment penalties and more. They've managed to become at least as bad, if not worse, than the average cell phone service provider, and have swapped places with the average cable company as the customer-unfriendly, money-grabbing, impersonal big corporate entity.


Well, they are a big corporation. Just about everyone else does commitments so they do them as well.

By the way, as has been pointed out, they have had the 1 and 2 year commitments long before the HR20 ever hit the shelves. They had them for years. The last 2 SD DirecTivo's I added to my account a few years ago both added a 1 year commitment at the time. And anyone buying a $1000 HR10 also got a 2 year commiment slapped on them at that time. I guess it was different 3 years ago and it was ok because it was Tivo but now that they don't offer Tivo the reason is to lock you into a crappy receiver? Come on now. Let's get some perspective and not make this a Tivo vs. crappy DVR thing.

So why the commitment? Because they can.
Dish - 18 months
Tivo - 1-3 years depending on the plan you choose
Cable - 1 year to 18 months. And before you argue, just try to drop your triple play before that initial period ends. Ouch. Read the fine print. I have. "You agree to maintain this level of service during the term of your special deal or else..."

I won't mention things like cell phones as they don't compete with DirecTV. But in their own industry everyone does commiments so they have decided to do them as well. But it's nothing new.

I don't like commitments either. But I could really care less because I'm not going anywhere and I have no problems with DirecTV's service or programming. Sounds like you did and you left. Awesome for you. More people should make that choice if they are "suffering" with DirecTV. Companies only understand one thing and one thing only...the bottom line. Vote with your wallet as they say.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

bonscott87 said:


> And anyone buying a $1000 HR10 also got a 2 year commiment slapped on them at that time. I guess it was different 3 years ago and it was ok because it was Tivo but now that they don't offer Tivo the reason is to lock you into a crappy receiver? Come on now. Let's get some perspective and not make this a Tivo vs. crappy DVR thing.


If you don't want to make this a "TiVo vs the crappy HR20" thing, why even make this comment?

Yes ...let's get some perspective:

Indeed, they've locked us in in the past. But we used to own our DVR ....now we pay for the right to _lease_ it from them. And _now _ if you get an HR20 from them and a month or so later decide you don't like it, it's going to cost you $480 to get out of the contract!

That's pretty steep, even if you _don't_ feel like you're one of their HR20 beta testers.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Sir_winealot said:


> If you don't want to make this a "TiVo vs the crappy HR20" thing, why even make this comment?
> 
> Yes ...let's get some perspective:
> 
> ...


All true. Then DirecTV doesn't sound like a company you should do business with.


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## David Scavo (Dec 14, 1999)

bonscott87 said:


> Incorrect. As stated on the conference call the HD-DVR (HR20/HR21) currently costs DirecTV $430-$440 each and they hope to have that down to $250 by end of 1st quarter 2008.
> 
> The non-DVR, the H20/H21, is what costs $220 and hope to get down to $140. And that receiver is given away free like it's candy.


Good catch. The previous part of the sentence says HDDVR in several places, but the cost part of the sentence does refer to just HD.

Sorry about that.


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## David Scavo (Dec 14, 1999)

dswallow said:


> 1) Why keep them as lease-only for the $299? Why not just sell them for $299? Or better yet, why not sell them for $299 with no commitment change, lease them for free with a commitment and even lease them for a fee with no commitment?


I agree 100%. I wouldn't mind trying the the HR20 (even for $299) if I could do it without extending my contract by 2 years. things are changing repidly in the HD space, and I don't want to limit my options.



dswallow said:


> I remember how I used to be so very, very pro-DirecTV. Frankly, I'm amazed at how the tables have turned. It really took a great deal of effort for DirecTV to alienate me. And they managed to do so pretty well in less than a year. I'm impressed. And I don't think that's the way they intended to impress people.


Same thing here. I have been very pro-direcTV for MANY years, but their actions recently have me seriously considering scrapping my 4 DirecTV/HDDirecTIVo DVRs and seriously looking at Comcast + Series3/TIVOHD units.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

bonscott87 said:


> According to the conference call Chase talked about starting in 2008 to see the "rewards" of the leasing model by capturing back receivers from those that churn and thus they send those back out to new customers which means their costs are a lot less as they don't need to make so many new boxes. Personally I don't like that myself and I'll go "buy" a receiver in the store to make sure I get a new one, but at the end of the day DirecTV is doing nothing different then either Dish or cable. They were last to the party in terms of leasing.


So soon people can look forward to used equipment and still paying the lease fees.



bonscott87 said:


> By the way, as has been pointed out, they have had the 1 and 2 year commitments long before the HR20 ever hit the shelves. They had them for years. The last 2 SD DirecTivo's I added to my account a few years ago both added a 1 year commitment at the time. And anyone buying a $1000 HR10 also got a 2 year commiment slapped on them at that time. I guess it was different 3 years ago and it was ok because it was Tivo but now that they don't offer Tivo the reason is to lock you into a crappy receiver? Come on now. Let's get some perspective and not make this a Tivo vs. crappy DVR thing.


A simple "no" to the commitment question usually ended in the commitment not being added to the account -- at least when one was buying their own equipment without benefit of any subsidy. Try that today.



bonscott87 said:


> So why the commitment? Because they can.
> Dish - 18 months
> Tivo - 1-3 years depending on the plan you choose
> Cable - 1 year to 18 months. And before you argue, just try to drop your triple play before that initial period ends. Ouch. Read the fine print. I have. "You agree to maintain this level of service during the term of your special deal or else..."


I agreed to a 2 year commitment with Comcast.

But I did so willingly because it was getting me a significant monthly discount and a guarantee of no rate increases for 2 years. That's called a two-sided agreement -- something DirecTV has forgotten about. I didn't have to make a commitment -- I'd have gotten exactly the same hardware from Comcast if I didn't; I'd just be paying more per month.

With DirecTV you usually don't even get price protection for your subscribed services during the commitment. With DirecTV they don't give you the equipment (yes, often you can convince them to, but it's not a line-item thing anybody would know about because it's listed on their agreement or price list.)

All I expect is a reasonableness and DirecTV has abandoned it.

If I buy my own equipment; if I install my own dish; I shouldn't be forced to agree to a commitment period. Period. That'd be reasonable. And you used to be able to, at least, argue your way to that deal, even if DirecTV wouldn't admit beforehand it could be done.

Today's DirecTV wants the commitment; wants you to pay for your own equipment; and then wants to be given the equipment back when you leave. And isn't willing to even give a guarantee of no price increases during your commitment, let alone give you any sort of discount for entering into the commitment. And that's wholly unreasonable.

At least cell phone companies offer better pricing for their commitments; and offer a variety of different phones partially or fully subsidized for your commitment; and even protect you against price increases during your commitment period.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

bonscott87 said:


> All true. Then DirecTV doesn't sound like a company you should do business with.


Oooh ....ouch. 

But perhaps if I could get out of their commitment _without giving up a mortgage payment_, I would indeed take my "business" to another company.


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## narrod (Nov 23, 2002)

Sir_winealot said:


> Oooh ....ouch.
> 
> But perhaps if I could get out of their commitment _without giving up a mortgage payment_, I would indeed take my "business" to another company.


I would love to have your mortgage payment. Seriously, I'm always amused how upset people get over the ETF. I can only assume that most people who are into HD, Satellite and DVRs aren't living on food stamps and eating dog food. Even at the new rate it is not that much money and shouldn't damage anyone's financial health. If I have a serious financial setback I will be canceling all these toys which is the only reasonable thing to do. This stuff is supposed to be fun but not the focus of someone's life. RANT OVER. LET THE FLAMES BEGIN.

Yes, I am a Liberal Democrat. I have no problem spending someone elses money.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

At least at this time they don't send off-lease boxes of any type to NEW customers and cable doesn't charge $299 up front to lease their HD-DVR. Also, if you pay for a new box at retial and it goes bad all you're going to get from D* is a used, er, reconditioned box anyway. The retail stores tell you to contact the provider for replacement.


bonscott87 said:


> According to the conference call Chase talked about starting in 2008 to see the "rewards" of the leasing model by capturing back receivers from those that churn and thus they send those back out to new customers which means their costs are a lot less as they don't need to make so many new boxes. Personally I don't like that myself and I'll go "buy" a receiver in the store to make sure I get a new one, but at the end of the day DirecTV is doing nothing different then either Dish or cable. They were last to the party in terms of leasing.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

Please post your name and address so everyone can send you their ETF bills since you obviously can afford it.  To some of us, while we like our toys, it's still a lot of money to piss away.


narrod said:


> I would love to have your mortgage payment. Seriously, I'm always amused how upset people get over the ETF. I can only assume that most people who are into HD, Satellite and DVRs aren't living on food stamps and eating dog food. Even at the new rate it is not that much money and shouldn't damage anyone's financial health. If I have a serious financial setback I will be canceling all these toys which is the only reasonable thing to do. This stuff is supposed to be fun but not the focus of someone's life. RANT OVER. LET THE FLAMES BEGIN.
> 
> Yes, I am a Liberal Democrat. I have no problem spending someone elses money.


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## parzec (Jun 21, 2002)

narrod said:


> Yes, I am a Liberal Democrat. I have no problem spending someone elses money.


Actually, you sound more like a dumb republican, and don't get me started about all of our money being spent in Iraq. But hey, aren't these forums supposed to be fun and free of political ranting


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

bonscott87 said:


> According to the conference call Chase talked about starting in 2008 to see the "rewards" of the leasing model by capturing back receivers from those that churn and thus they send those back out to new customers which means their costs are a lot less as they don't need to make so many new boxes. Personally I don't like that myself and I'll go "buy" a receiver in the store to make sure I get a new one, but at the end of the day DirecTV is doing nothing different then either Dish or cable. They were last to the party in terms of leasing.
> 
> Got me.
> 
> ...


I've never seen anyone who enjoys bending over and taking it up the rear as much as you, and then brag about it!!


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

RS4 said:


> I've never seen anyone who enjoys bending over and taking it up the rear as much as you.


Spend a few weeks traveling in my circles.


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## narrod (Nov 23, 2002)

parzec said:


> Actually, you sound more like a dumb republican, and don't get me started about all of our money being spent in Iraq. But hey, aren't these forums supposed to be fun and free of political ranting


OUCH!


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

dswallow said:


> Either way, it hardly seems that the economics of manufacturing the hardware is why there was such a drastic increase in the commitment penalty. And certainly by March 2008 it's pretty likely that the wholesale price that retail stores pay in order to sell the HR21 at $299 is likely to cover the full cost to manufacture the unit...
> 
> ...so...
> 
> ...


+1 I completely agree with you. I think the only difference is I decided earlier then you that they are acting more and more like a bully. I used to be excited about DirecTV and thought they were a leading innovator and much better then the cable companies. Now, I consider them to be at the bottom of the list. :down:


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

dswallow said:


> Spend a few weeks traveling in my circles.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

dswallow said:


> Spend a few weeks traveling in my circles.


if we had more than 150 sig characters, i may have to make that a quote


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## beartrap (Nov 8, 2005)

cyphers72 said:


> My 4 new TiVo S3 boxes arrived this morning and the cable guy comes tomorrow with a small fleet of cable cards. This 17-year dedicated DirecTV subscriber will be calling to cancel tomorrow. I feel like I'm breaking out of jail with all this cool new TiVo functionality only available with Cable.


New math: 2007-1994=17


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Sir_winealot said:


> Oooh ....ouch.
> 
> But perhaps if I could get out of their commitment _without giving up a mortgage payment_, I would indeed take my "business" to another company.


Seriously, check with your cable company or FIOS if available. Most cable companies will buy you out of any commitment you have left with either Dish or DirecTV if you commit to their triple play pack. I get flyers in the mail all the time for "we'll pay off your termination fee up to $400 and even take the dish down for you if you switch".

Honestly, if you want to switch you may be able to do so at little cost to yourself even if you do have commitment time left.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

RS4 said:


> I've never seen anyone who enjoys bending over and taking it up the rear as much as you, and then brag about it!!


Listen, if I was getting bent over I would be gone. I just dumped a cell phone company because I was unhappy. My new cell phone provider happily paid the $50 left on my commitment.

1) I get the programming I want at a better price then any other options I have (Dish or cable).
2) I have an HD-DVR that records all my programs flawlessly and has done so for over a year. I have 2 DirecTivos that also record all my programs.
3) I get more HD then any other option I have (goes back to point #1 about programming).
4) Sunday Ticket. And even taking Sunday Ticket out of the equation see point #1 and 3 above.

Sign me up for a 5 year commitment for all I care as long as the above variables stay in place. Charter and Dish aren't going to beat any of these any time soon. At this point I only have about 7 months left on my commitment as it is cause I got in early.

I don't see how I'm getting bent over here. Is it so hard to understand that *some* people just might be happy with the service and programming they are getting?

Maybe you and other feels like you are getting bent over. If so then leave or plan to leave. I don't understand why people stick around when they are unhappy.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

dswallow said:


> So soon people can look forward to used equipment and still paying the lease fees.
> 
> A simple "no" to the commitment question usually ended in the commitment not being added to the account -- at least when one was buying their own equipment without benefit of any subsidy. Try that today.
> 
> ...


Hey, as I posted before, I totally agree with most of your points. I don't really like commitment either but I don't have a problem with it if my service and programming is fine (see my post above). But it is what it is. If the DirecTV commitment is so bad and evil for you then switch which it sounds like you did. Good for you! Be happy, seriously. Others should follow your lead if they aren't happy. DirecTV is signing up quarter million new subs a quarter. So most people obviously don't care about the commitment. For those that do, go somewhere else if you find a provider with no commitment. I still don't get why people put up with stuff that gives them so much grief. Take some stress out of your life and enjoy.


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## narrod (Nov 23, 2002)

bonscott87 said:


> Hey, as I posted before, I totally agree with most of your points. I don't really like commitment either but I don't have a problem with it if my service and programming is fine (see my post above). But it is what it is. If the DirecTV commitment is so bad and evil for you then switch which it sounds like you did. Good for you! Be happy, seriously. Others should follow your lead if they aren't happy. DirecTV is signing up quarter million new subs a quarter. So most people obviously don't care about the commitment. For those that do, go somewhere else if you find a provider with no commitment. I still don't get why people put up with stuff that gives them so much grief. Take some stress out of your life and enjoy.


Which brings up a question. Is there a site or sites where cable customers talk and complain about the ins and outs of their providers' programming and hardware. Insight is the only cable option here and they SUCK!!!


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

narrod said:


> Which brings up a question. Is there a site or sites where cable customers talk and complain about the ins and outs of their providers' programming and hardware. Insight is the only cable option here and they SUCK!!!


www.broadbandreports.com has forums for most major cable providers.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

I'm not a fan of the commitment either but you really do have a simple choice. If you're not willing to make the commitment and accept the fee then don't take the discounted unit.

The ETF never crosses my mind when I make a deal, I fully expect to be around for 2 years plus the prorating makes it much less of an issue. I do appreciate that there is no practical way to "try" a DVR without committing but there are plenty of other products like that in the world.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

JohnB1000 said:


> I'm not a fan of the commitment either but you really do have a simple choice. If you're not willing to make the commitment and accept the fee then don't take the discounted unit.


It'd be one thing if you were actually buying something; but now you also have to send the equipment back.


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## narrod (Nov 23, 2002)

dswallow said:


> It'd be one thing if you were actually buying something; but now you also have to send the equipment back.


If you leave DirecTv the equipment is a boat anchor. Why do you want to own it?


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

dswallow said:


> It'd be one thing if you were actually buying something; but now you also have to send the equipment back.


You are no doubt correct but I have no intention of leaving


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

narrod said:


> If you leave DirecTv the equipment is a boat anchor. Why do you want to own it?


Sell it to recoup intial payout.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

narrod said:


> If you leave DirecTv the equipment is a boat anchor. Why do you want to own it?


As NatasNJ said... sell it to someone wanting it for DirecTV; maybe even just pull out the hard drive and throw the rest away. Perhaps I just want to videotape dropping it from the top of a 12-story building. Or I just want to stick it in the closet and maybe one day I come back to DirecTV I'll already have my own equipment and not have to buy, er, uh, lease, it again.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

dswallow said:


> As NatasNJ said... sell it to someone wanting it for DirecTV; maybe even just pull out the hard drive and throw the rest away. Perhaps I just want to videotape dropping it from the top of a 12-story building. Or I just want to stick it in the closet and maybe one day I come back to DirecTV I'll already have my own equipment and not have to buy, er, uh, lease, it again.


Pay the full $799 and you can do any of those things


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## restart88 (Mar 9, 2002)

IMA_TV_ADDICT said:


> You could also say "I'm buying a DVR from them for $480, and they are allowing me to pay it off at $20 a month for 2 years, with no interest or finance charge. And, to make it even better for me, as long as I stay with them as a customer they are going to make my $20 a month payments for me, so at the end of the 2 years I'll have this nice DVR, and I won't have to pay anything for it."
> 
> It's all a matter of perspective.....


Yea, but on about anything else like that you could sell it can try to break even. Here I'm not so sure if you would recover the cost and the current round of buggy software sure won't help any possible buyer be a happy camper right off, unless perhaps they happened to be a hardcore Tivo guy.


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## coachO (Nov 26, 2004)

dswallow +1 on all your comments


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## narrod (Nov 23, 2002)

NatasNJ said:


> Sell it to recoup intial payout.


Maybe so but I have an owned HR10 sitting in my garage because the resale value isn't worth the effort.


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## nuke (Sep 8, 2003)

dswallow said:


> I remember how I used to be so very, very pro-DirecTV. Frankly, I'm amazed at how the tables have turned. It really took a great deal of effort for DirecTV to alienate me. And they managed to do so pretty well in less than a year. I'm impressed. And I don't think that's the way they intended to impress people.


Boy, you totally summed it up.

I got on DTV *because* of Tivo in the first place.

But the company has turned into the same kind of monster that made me want to get away from cable TV. Same deal with Sprint, I signed up with them about a decade ago because they cut through all the BS and had an upfront service plan with no hidden fees, no gotchas and no screwball "commitment" schemes. I wouldn't touch Sprint/Nextel with a ten foot ball point that signed contracts in disappearing ink.

The cable company is actually WAY more friendly than D* is now. But there's still a lot of static when you want to do your own thing and go with the cable-cards rather than lease their one-size-fits-all box. My neighborhood (smack center of Silicon Valley no less) has very poor cable TV service. Just barely digital after all these years.

The one infuriating thing dealing with D* is the completely schizophrenic reactions from first tier and second tier and retention departments. On the one hand, *they* called and offered the free upgrade to another guy in my office, and just kept saying, no, no, no to me. Called back on the next day to express customer service number, used the PIN they gave me, got through quickly and they easily agreed to what I asked for in the first place, not so much as a maybe. Just "yes and thank you for calling."

Heck, they could have just emailed me the offer in my DTV online and saved the phone games.

So I've just decided to hold my nose, give D* a shot with the HR20. I have a bad taste in my mouth from paying $900 for the HR10 out of my own pocket and having it be obsoleted so quickly. After a couple of tries, D* is putting in a 5 lnb at no cost, and I was able to go buy the specific receiver I wanted at Costco and get most of that cost applied to my account. They offered to send me a HD DVR for free, but wanted to make sure I got the OTA tuner. The HD channel line up and the concession tipped the scale for D*, but I was on the verge of canceling service.

My now restored HR10 I guess will go in the bedroom and the Series 2 DTivo will go on eBay.

I'm fortunate enough that if they really tick me off, I can eat the cancellation fee and chalk it up to "money paid to not be pissed-off any longer". I can sure see how the threat of that hangs over the average consumer who has a tough time paying all their bills.


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## bsnelson (Oct 30, 1999)

Wow. 

I'll admit up front, I'm DirecTV's *****. I've had service since 1994, when I bought my first system (single receiver, dual LNB dish) for $1299, plus $250 installation. I'd previously had snowy reception on the "big 3" networks only, so I was thrilled!

Now, I have an HR20 and an HR10, as well as eight SD receivers on my account. I haven't been in the HR20 world for long, so I think I was spared a lot of the early software releases that were so bad. 

In my area, there is no alternative that can offer me anywhere near what DirecTV does in terms of HD. It's not even close. I can't get FiOS, and my cable company's offerings are, frankly, laughable. I suppose Dish could be an option, but I personally would have to invest a huge amount of money to duplicate my current setup. 

So, for myself, and many others, it's hard to get too worked up about ETFs, because there's not a great chance of ET.  I realize I am a WAY atypical case, but still. DirecTV has had their ups and downs, but they do still get it done for a lot of us. 

"Can't we all just get along"? 

Brad


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## fjwagner (Jan 22, 2006)

what a bunch of whiners. I miss the technical discussions for sure.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

fjwagner said:


> what a bunch of whiners. I miss the technical discussions for sure.


Clearly the title of this thread has nothing to do with technical issues. I wonder why you bother to read it if it upsets you so much.

Many people brag about how responsive DirecTV is. My point for months has been that DirecTV has changed their attitude towards the customer ever since Murdoch took over and it continues today.

The only area I see DirecTV being responsive to anyone is fixing their buggy dvs, and even then they are being selective by avoiding many of the biggest requests that I still see with the box. They are no where close to any kind of consistent customer service, so maybe one can get a new mpeg4 replacing the DTivo for free or maybe they'll pay full baggage.

DirecTV clearly is on a roll because of the HD. There is no doubt about it. But they are taking advantage of that by becoming more and more customer unfriendly.


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## restart88 (Mar 9, 2002)

I personally am in no hurry to swap out my old reliable single position dish to get the new dish to get the HD channels because my past experiences with multi position DBS antennas and multi switches has been frustrating due to rain fade, to say the least. 

That may not be as much of a problem with the newer receivers and antennas. I don't know. But if new customers have half the troubles I've endured I can see why customer service is becoming hostile after dealing with the new wave of subscribers.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

RS4 said:


> Many people brag about how responsive DirecTV is. My point for months has been that DirecTV has changed their attitude towards the customer ever since Murdoch took over and it continues today.


Frankly, I think it started before that. I don't know if there was one event that triggered it but over time they switched from a focus on quality and customer service to mass appeal and retention. Now, instead of customer service it's commitments and credits. There's no wound they can't heal with six months of free HBO or a programming credit - with another extension of your commitment of course.

DTV is probably still better than most cable companies, but once upon a time it wasn't even close. Now my cable company, WOW!, took top honors for cusomter service in the Midwest, and I wouldn't be surprised to see upstarts like Verizon start to make a dent in other regions.

The good news is that for disgruntled former customers like me, it's easy to use their tactics against them. While composing this message I got a call from DTV. I've got the sales rep on speaker phone trying to win my business back. I'm ignoring her but when she stops talking I tell her I'm not interested because they don't have TiVo and ripped me off for a late fee on my final bill. We're ten minutes in now.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

restart88 said:


> That may not be as much of a problem with the newer receivers and antennas. I don't know. But if new customers have half the troubles I've endured I can see why customer service is becoming hostile after dealing with the new wave of subscribers.


i'm waiting for my 1st new rain with my new dish but from what i've read the 5lnb is very good for fade prevention


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