# Any compelling reason to upgrade from series 2?



## stormtech (Mar 18, 2008)

I currently have a series 2 Tivo unit (9410) that has been working perfectly for many years.

I received an email offer for an upgrade that includes my keeping my current service plan. I consider this a decent offer since I am paying a yearly amount of $129. Since I only have analog cable, it looks like the only Premier unit I can use would be the Premier 500GB 2 tuner.

Trying to compare the specs the best I can, it looks like my present unit has a 40 hour capacity. The Premier 500GB unit says it has a 75 hour HD capacity. Well I don't have HD, so I am wondering how much analog capacity the Premier unit would have.

Other than a larger capacity, I like the idea of having a disk usage meter - something that I would really like.

Other than the capacity and the disk meter, is there any other compelling reason that I should think of upgrading? The upgraded unit would cost $99 right now with keeping my current service.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

What do you mean by you "only have analog TV"?

Are you saying you only have Over The Air (OTA) TV or are you saying that your cable system only sends an analog signal to you?

I ask, because very few channels are still broadcast in Analog and most of those will only be simalcast for a very short period of time. The likelyhood that you only have access to true analog signals is slim.

I also get from your post that you are paying either a Monthly or yearly fee @ basically $10 a month. With your Series 2, a lifetime sub would have paid for itself YEARS ago... Just sayin...

I am going to "ass u me" that you mean you get your TV signal with an antenna or OTA. If tha tis true, the yes the 500G P4 is your upgrade option.

What you get from Premier line over a Series 2 is significant. 

- HDTV broadcast,
- Cable Card connectivity so you will not need a cable box, and 
- Several Over the Top services like the IPad app, Netflix and others.

The S2 was a fine product but years behind in technology. I certainly wouldn't continue to pay a service fee for it.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

The future is digital cable sooner or latter most if not all cable companies will get rid of analog cable so upgrading will get you ready for that. A 500GB hard drive has room for 100s maybe even 1000s of hours of SD analog cable. 

Good Luck,


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

A 500GB Premiere unit would hold roughly 700 hours of SD, so it's a pretty major upgrade compared to your current unit. Also a lot of cable companies offer HD versions of the local channels (i.e. ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS and FOX) for free even if you only subscribe to their basic service plan. And even if they don't you can probably get a cheap antenna and pick those up over the air instead. (if you've never watched HD you'll be amazed at how good it looks)

You'll also gain access to features not available on the S2 like Netflix, Hulu, YouTube, Pandora, etc...

For $99 I think the hard drive upgrade alone is worth the upgrade. The other stuff is just icing on the cake.


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## stormtech (Mar 18, 2008)

Thanks for all the great replies! I'll try to answer the questions:

I have what is called basic cable. The only reason I assume it is analog is that the cable company charges an extra fee for digital which I don't pay.

(I posted a link to my cable provider, but I don't have enough of a post count to post a link. The name of my provider is Zito Media).

I live deep in the mountains where there is no OTA signal at all.

I agree as I thought about this that the hard drive upgrade is worth it alone for the price. I sometimes do come up against the 40 hour limit on my box, so to have 100's of hours sure sounds good.

And while I don't see myself paying for extra services such as Netflix etc., I guess the option being there would be nice.

I was hoping to get a 4 tuner box since I have lots of discrepancies when setting up season passes for my favorite programs.

Yeah, I'm really behind the times. I still watch TV on a CRT type 30" unit......


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

One point of reference the dual tuner Premiere maybe the last TiVo DVR that can actually record analog cable. All 4 tuner ones are digital cable only and any future models are expected to be digital only also. 

For $100 I would upgrade. 

Good Luck,


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

stormtech said:


> I have what is called basic cable. The only reason I assume it is analog is that the cable company charges an extra fee for digital which I don't pay.


You should call your cable company and ask. A lot of cable companies do something called digital simulcast where the basic cable channels are broadcast as both analog and digital. If your cable company does this then you can get a 4 tuner unit and still get all your channels. If not you'll have to get the dual tuner unit since it's the only one that can record analog stations.


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## stormtech (Mar 18, 2008)

atmuscarella said:


> One point of reference the dual tuner Premiere maybe the last TiVo DVR that can actually record analog cable. All 4 tuner ones are digital cable only and any future models are expected to be digital only also.
> 
> For $100 I would upgrade.
> 
> Good Luck,


That is a very good point - it seems that this might in fact be the last of the Tivo units that will work with an analog signal.



Dan203 said:


> You should call your cable company and ask. A lot of cable companies do something called digital simulcast where the basic cable channels are broadcast as both analog and digital. If your cable company does this then you can get a 4 tuner unit and still get all your channels. If not you'll have to get the dual tuner unit since it's the only one that can record analog stations.


I just double checked - I am in fact receiving an analog signal. If I were to want a digital signal, I would have to have a converter box with comes with an extra fee.

Since I absolutely hate paying for TV that includes commercials, I refuse to pay more than the minimum package. This is why I love my Tivo so much. I guess I may be old school or something, but my feeling is why should I pay for broadcast that forces me to watch commercials?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

stormtech said:


> If I were to want a digital signal, I would have to have a converter box with comes with an extra fee.


Just to be clear the TiVo doesn't need a converter box. It uses a device called a CableCARD instead which allows it tune digital channels internally. These typically cost $2-3/mo to rent from the cable company. (there are FCC mandates that dictate that they cost less then $5/mo)


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## bshrock (Jan 6, 2012)

Dan203 said:


> You should call your cable company and ask. A lot of cable companies do something called digital simulcast where the basic cable channels are broadcast as both analog and digital. If your cable company does this then you can get a 4 tuner unit and still get all your channels. If not you'll have to get the dual tuner unit since it's the only one that can record analog stations.


 With the 4 tuner a Cable Card will be required possibly forcing the Digital package upgrade.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

stormtech, just to be even clearer:


To use your current Series 2 TiVo wtih digital cable requires a converter box from your cable company
To use any Premiere TiVo with digital cable requires a cable card from your cable company
All 4 tuner Tivo Premieres require digital cable and again a cable card from your cable company and do not work with analog cable at all.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Yeah if you want to get a 4 tuner unit then you really need to call the cable company and tell them that you're considering purchasing a TiVo which can ONLY record digital channels and you want to know if you'll lose access to any channels if you do.

Like I said above some cable companies simulcast all their channels, meaning every station has a digital version. In that case a 4 tuner unit would work fine. Others still have channels which are analog only. If you have any of those then you will not be able to access them at all on the 4 tuner unit.


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## lillevig (Dec 7, 2010)

I would be very surprised if your Basic Service is really analog only. Pretty much every cable provider has converted to digital and only a few (like mine) still transmit an analog version of the digital channels. Usually, the "digital upgrade" is for either Extended Basic" or for an HD package of channels. Do you have a friend who has an HDTV and would be willing to bring it over to your place? If so, then you can verify if your cable is analog only or both digital and analog. Generally, the analog channels on a dual-transmission system would be like 2, 3, 4, 5 and the digital version would be 2.1, 3.1, 4.1, 5.1. A typical HDTV should be able to tune both versions. If you decide to stay with an analog-only Tivo, I suggest buying one that has a lifetime sub. You can get one for less than the $129/year you are currently paying for the yearly sub.


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## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

If you want to stay in the dark ages with me, (I have old analog TVs and don't use my Tivo for any internet features other than updates ) I would buy two Series 2 Tivos with lifetime service so you don't have to pay the monthly fee from people on this forum, craigslist, or eBay. Then you can set one up in the computer room and one in the front room and record different things on each. Or buy one or two Series 3 Tivo with lifetime ( the prices go down each month) Be aware that the Series 3 usually need capacitor replacement due if that hasn't already been done,due to bad power supplies.

I bought a Series 2 with lifetime and a Tivo wireless adapter yesterday for $30 off of craigslist!!

But probably sooner or later your cable provider will require a converter box or a cable card, so it 90% sure that you will be investing in 'boat anchor' technology.


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## GBL (Apr 20, 2000)

You don't say where you are located, so I'm just guessing WA, so this may or may not apply to you. Based on http://www.zitomedia.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=49&Itemid=58 the lowest, analog channel lineup includes digital broadcast stations in the 700 range:

Channel Lineup

Serving Friday Harbor, WA
BROADCAST BASIC

02 CBUT / CBC VANCOUVER - TV / CH # 2
03 Northwest Cable News
04 KOMO  ABC
05 KING  NBC
06 CHEK / VANCOUVER ISLAND - TV / CH # 6
07 KIRO  CBS
08 BCTV 8
09 KCTS  PBS
10 CKVU - TV / CH # 13
11 KSTW (CW)
12 KVOS McTV
13 KCPQ  FOX
14 QVC
17 ION
18 C-SPAN
19 Public Access
20 TBN
21 Local Origination
22 KZJO Joe TV
704 KOMO ABC HD
705 KING NBC HD
707 KIRO CBS HD
711 KSTW CW HD
713 KCPQ FOX HD
722 KZJO Joe TV HD

Of course, you cannot get these stations without digital capable equipment, like a TiVo 3 or later.


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## stormtech (Mar 18, 2008)

lillevig said:


> I would be very surprised if your Basic Service is really analog only. Pretty much every cable provider has converted to digital and only a few (like mine) still transmit an analog version of the digital channels. Usually, the "digital upgrade" is for either Extended Basic" or for an HD package of channels. Do you have a friend who has an HDTV and would be willing to bring it over to your place? If so, then you can verify if your cable is analog only or both digital and analog. Generally, the analog channels on a dual-transmission system would be like 2, 3, 4, 5 and the digital version would be 2.1, 3.1, 4.1, 5.1. A typical HDTV should be able to tune both versions. If you decide to stay with an analog-only Tivo, I suggest buying one that has a lifetime sub. You can get one for less than the $129/year you are currently paying for the yearly sub.


Thanks for that. When you mentioned the digital channel numbers being 2.3, 3.1, etc., I remember that I have a small TV that I used to have in my truck that works with both analog and digital signals. I remember when setting it up it went through 2 sets of channels for OTA to see which ones it received. Going to hook that one up now then I will be able to tell for sure if I have just analog or not.

Great idea - thanks!


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## stormtech (Mar 18, 2008)

I just tried my little digital TV. It did its scan of analog and digital channels, and when done all I have are analog - no digital at all.

That was a good exercise - at least I know now I have analog only.

I still can't post a link GBL - I am in Pennsylvania and the service is in the Emporium area for Zito Media.

replaytv - I like your idea, but then I would be paying for service for 2 units - even if I went with lifetime that would mean 2 lifetime agreements.

OK - you folks have been a huge help and I certainly appreciate it. While I am at this, since the lifetime service was mentioned a couple times now, I am going to see what the cost is for that compared to what I am paying now.

Also, with this email special deal, it says it comes with a MoCA device. It looks like it is something I would never use, so when I call I am going to see if I can have that excluded and get a better price.


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## GBL (Apr 20, 2000)

Ok, here's your lineup: 


Spoiler



Channel Lineup

Serving Emporium, PA
CLASSIC CABLE (Broadcast & Expanded)
BROADCAST BASIC

02 WJAC - NBC CH 6 JOHNSTOWN 
03 WPSU - PBS CH 3 CLEARFIELD
04 WIVB - CBS CH 4 BUFFALO
06 WTAE - ABC CH 4 PITTSBURGH
07 WATM - ABC CH 23 JOHNSTOWN 
08 WWCP - FOX CH 8 JOHNSTOWN
09 COMMUNITY CHANNEL
10 WTAJ - CBS CH 10 ALTOONA
11 TV GUIDE CHANNEL 
12 WGN - WB CH 9 CHICAGO
13 WNLO - BUFFALO (CW)

EXPANDED BASIC

14 QVC
15 EWTN 
20 OXYGEN
21 HSN
22 PCN PENNSYLVANIA CABLE NETWORK
23 CNN
24 HEADLINE NEWS
25 CNBC
26 FOX NEWS
27 THE WEATHER CHANNEL
28 MSNBC 
29 LIFETIME
30 ESPN CLASSICS
31 ESPN
32 ESPN2
33 MSG
34 ROOT SPORTS
35 NFL NETWORK
36 A&E
37 DISCOVERY
38 THE LEARNING CHANNEL
39 HISTORY CHANNEL
41 CMT
42 MTV
43 VH-1
44 ABC FAMILY CHANNEL
45 NICKELODEON
46 CARTOON
47 COMEDY CENTRAL
48 USA 
49 TNT
50 TBS
51 SPIKE
52 FX
53 TRAVEL CHANNEL
54 DISNEY
55 FOOD
56 HGTV
57 TURNER CLASSIC MOVIES
58 AMC
59 OUTDOOR CHANNEL
60 SPEED CHANNEL
61 E!
62 SYFY
63 TV LAND
64 HALLMARK 
65 ANIMAL PLANET
67 CSPAN*
68 CSPAN 2*
69 CSPAN 3*
70 TRU TV 
78 BRAVO*
702 WJAC (NBC) HD*
703 WPSU (PBS) HD* 
704 WIVB (CBS) HD*
706 WTAE (ABC) HD* 
707 WATM (ABC) HD*
708 WWCP (FOX) HD*
710 WTAJ (CBS) HD*
723 CNN HD*
731 ESPN HD*
732 ESPN 2 HD*
735 NFL NETWORK HD*
736 A&E HD*
737 DISCOVERY HD*
738 THE LEARNING CHANNEL HD*
739 HISTORY CHANNEL HD* 
746 TOON HD*
749 TNT HD*
750 TBS HD*
752 FX HD*
754 DISNEY HD*
755 FOOD HD*
756 HGTV HD*
758 AMC HD*
759 OUTDOOR HD* 
760 SPEED HD*
761 E! HD*
765 ANIMAL PLANET HD*
836 BIG TEN NETWORK HD*

* Requires a Digital Receiver



Looks like EXPANDED BASIC includes some digital channels including broadcast channels.


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## stormtech (Mar 18, 2008)

GBL said:


> Ok, here's your lineup:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Ok - that shows it all right there. I get all the channels except the ones marked with an asterisk - the asterisk denotes the requirement of a digital receiver.

So I take that to mean that I would have to have a digital receiver box from the cable company to get those channels. Or.....maybe I am wrong.....that the Premier 4 units would get those channels without the cable company's box?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Two problems here...

1) That little TV you used might do digital OTA but not digital cable. They use two different technologies. OTA uses one called ATSC and cable uses one called QAM. The sub-stations you remember seeing (2.1, 3.1, etc...) are also used by a lot of OTA channels so that's not a definitive test.

2) The channel lineup is also a poor indicator. A lot of cable companies simulcast. Meaning they have two copies of the station, one analog and one digital. The box or CableCARD automatically converts the analog channel number (i.e. 2, 4, 8, etc...) to the appropriate frequency completely seamlessly, so there is no way to know just from the lineup if your cable company is doing digital simulcast.

If you really want a 4 tuner unit then you should just call them and ask if they simulcast.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

stormtech said:


> So I take that to mean that I would have to have a digital receiver box from the cable company to get those channels. Or.....maybe I am wrong.....that the Premier 4 units would get those channels without the cable company's box?


Instead of a box the Premiere unit uses a device called a CableCARD to get those stations. Basically it allows the Premiere to act like a cable box and get all the digital channels via it's internal tuners.


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## GBL (Apr 20, 2000)

stormtech said:


> Ok - that shows it all right there. I get all the channels except the ones marked with an asterisk - the asterisk denotes the requirement of a digital receiver.
> 
> So I take that to mean that I would have to have a digital receiver box from the cable company to get those channels. Or.....maybe I am wrong.....that the Premier 4 units would get those channels without the cable company's box?


with a Premier 4 you may get them without a CableCARD but for scheduling data you will need a CableCARD from Zito. If they don't offer one (they appear to be a small operator and maybe exempt from the FCC's CableCARD support requirement) a Premiere 4 may not be a good option for you.


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## stormtech (Mar 18, 2008)

More good info folks.

Until I find out more about if Zito uses a CableCard, I am going with the premise that I will be just getting the 2 tuner unit for analog. My original questions were answered, plus I learned a lot more from this thread.

So from my original query, here is a summary of what I've learned:

The 500gb would give me a huge jump in storage - a very good thing!
Access to Netflix etc. - not something I would normally use but nice to have access.
Newer technology - even though I hate to pay for it, I like to keep current with my computers and gear.
May very well be the last of the units to record analog signal.

I don't see myself upgrading to digital or HD anytime in the near future since I hate paying for stuff like this as I said above.

And a little side note about Zito Media. This is what is left from the Adelphia empire. John Regis lived ~30 miles from me - I actually worked for him personally for a few years at his show farm. He was a very generous man to the local people. In my instance, he ran a cable line 9 miles from the nearest connection to give only 17 people access to cable TV and high speed internet. If not for him I would still be on satellite TV and satellite internet. One of the sons (grandson?) was able to hold on to just the local service area after Adelphia was broken up. So yes, a very small provider, but I am still grateful to have the service living way out in the boonies!


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

One option would be to get the two-tuner (analog-capable) Premiere, hook it up to analog cable without a CableCard (so, no extra fee), but then also connect it to an antenna (it has two inputs), to pick up your local broadcast stations in HD. The TiVo will happily integrate both channel lineups.


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## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

stormtech said:


> replaytv - I like your idea, but then I would be paying for service for 2 units - even if I went with lifetime that would mean 2 lifetime agreements.


 Series 2 Tivos go for around $50 on ebay, or even less if you want lifetime basic. So for less than you are paying for yearly service on one TiVo you could lifetime service forever on two TiVos. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tivo-Series...DVRs_Hard_Drive_Recorders&hash=item5af1fd4a2d


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

stormtech said:


> I currently have a series 2 Tivo unit (9410) that has been working perfectly for many years.
> 
> I received an email offer for an upgrade that includes my keeping my current service plan. I consider this a decent offer since I am paying a yearly amount of $129. Since I only have analog cable, it looks like the only Premier unit I can use would be the Premier 500GB 2 tuner.
> 
> ...


I don't recognize that model number.

On the back of the unit where the power cord plugs in there should be a sticker and on that sticker a model number that starts with TCD.

What is that number?

Have you ever replaced a hard drive in a computer before?


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

You might be able to find a cheap Tivo HD on craig's list and and switch your plan over to that one or else pay $12.95 per month.


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

stormtech said:


> replaytv - I like your idea, but then I would be paying for service for 2 units - even if I went with lifetime that would mean 2 lifetime agreements.


The prices discussed included an already prepaid lifetime subscription. The subcription conveys to the new owner of the box without any further charges from Tivo.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Why would anyone get a S2 at this point? I have several in my closet just collecting dust. Even with a SDTV the hassle of using a cable box and IR blasters would steer me toward at least a S3.


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## smithken31100 (Mar 5, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> Why would anyone get a S2 at this point? I have several in my closet just collecting dust. Even with a SDTV the hassle of using a cable box and IR blasters would steer me toward at least a S3.


My S2DT isn't connected to a cable box and works fine, apparently Brighthouse is still sending analog.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

For now. But they could switch all your channels to digital tomorrow and then it would be useless.


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## stormtech (Mar 18, 2008)

unitron said:


> I don't recognize that model number.
> 
> On the back of the unit where the power cord plugs in there should be a sticker and on that sticker a model number that starts with TCD.
> 
> ...


The 9410 number is what I got from looking at my Tivo account. The actual number from the back of the unit is:

*TCD649080*

And yes, I've replaced many a hard drive in my computers including just upgrading myself to an SSD for my OS and programs and using my hard drive for all my data.

Also looking at the Tivo settings, I see it must be an 80 hour unit. It shows 80 hours available at the least quality recording. I have set on one above that "good" which gives me 48 hours.



poppagene said:


> The prices discussed included an already prepaid lifetime subscription. The subscription conveys to the new owner of the box without any further charges from Tivo.


While the idea of getting a second series 2 with a lifetime subscription seems like a feasible idea, I really don't like the idea of buying a 5-6 year old electronic device from ebay.

And as far as a lifetime subscription, I didn't opt into that when I first bought my present unit as I didn't trust it to keep working for 5 years of more, or would be compelled to upgrade before the break even point. Electronic devices change so quickly these days.


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## dravrah1 (Feb 27, 2002)

I had 3 S2s (2 with lifetime) collecting dust for 3+ years and I finally got around to trying to sell them a couple of weeks ago. I was able to sell all 3 on Craigslist for $150. The guy I sold them to said he was going to use them with analog cable and it sounded like he lived a little bit out in the boonies.



Dan203 said:


> Why would anyone get a S2 at this point? I have several in my closet just collecting dust. Even with a SDTV the hassle of using a cable box and IR blasters would steer me toward at least a S3.


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

stormtech said:


> While the idea of getting a second series 2 with a lifetime subscription seems like a feasible idea, I really don't like the idea of buying a 5-6 year old electronic device from ebay.
> 
> And as far as a lifetime subscription, I didn't opt into that when I first bought my present unit as I didn't trust it to keep working for 5 years of more, or would be compelled to upgrade before the break even point. Electronic devices change so quickly these days.


You're throwing away money by paying $129 a year for service when you could buy a suitablle subsitute for $50 that includes service for the life of the unit. Clearly you need to replace the series 2 you have sooner rather than later and if you want to add another do so as well. You can revisit the upgrade to s newer model later when your cable company drags you into the digital age.


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## MHunter1 (Oct 11, 2007)

stormtech said:


> I have a Series 2 TiVo... is there any compelling reason I should upgrade?


Hold on to analog as long as you can. Your cableco should provide plenty of warning before it goes all-digital. I would still be using my Series 2 Dual Tuner if Comcast hadn't discontinued analog transmission last year, forcing me to upgrade.

My household has no HDTVs, so we have to use the bug-infested SDUI on our two Premiere 4/XL4/Elites. The fall update v20.2.2.1 on December 5 ruined the SDUI's My Shows list when Groups are off, and the spring update v20.3.1 on May 16 caused the systemwide font to become faint, among other bugs which TiVo's tech support claims are "intended" changes. Yeah, right. More like inept programmers and deficient beta testing.

You don't know the frustration you'll be in for with the Premiere's SDUI, and no fixes are in sight. If it weren't for Wish Lists and the fact I can transfer my favorite shows to a PC to strip out the commercials, I'd be using a cableco DVR.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

stormtech said:


> The 9410 number is what I got from looking at my Tivo account. The actual number from the back of the unit is:
> 
> *TCD649080*
> 
> ...


That's the dual tuner S2, or S2DT as we call it around here.

I've got a couple of them I bought used that have been chugging right along for about 2 or 3 years now.

That particular model seems to have mostly dodged the power supply problems caused by "capacitor plague" which have cropped up in the other S2s and the S3s, so a lifetime sub on it would probably have been a good investment when it was new, but of course that requires that you be able to see into the mysterious future.

It can use 2 1TB drives, although as far as I know it can't use 1 2TB drive.

You'll need an aftermarket dual drive bracket to put 2 drives in it.

Since people with S3s are getting the $99 lifetime deal on them when they buy and subscribe an S4, you should ask TiVo if they'll do a deal on lifetime for your S2DT.

That'll give it some resale value.

The monthly rate on an S4 may be higher than the rate you pay now, so nail that down in advance.

You might want to do some reading in the Premiere threads, as some people do have some problems with them.

Which is not to say that the various S3s never have problems, but apparently fewer.

A lifetimed S3 at a good price, if you can find one, may be worth your consideration.

You can upgrade one to a 2TB drive (as you can that 500GB Premiere).


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MHunter1 said:


> Hold on to analog as long as you can. Your cableco should provide plenty of warning before it goes all-digital. I would still be using my Series 2 Dual Tuner if Comcast hadn't discontinued analog transmission last year, forcing me to upgrade.
> 
> My household has no HDTVs, so we have to use the bug-infested SDUI on our two Premiere 4/XL4/Elites. The fall update v20.2.2.1 on December 5 ruined the SDUI's My Shows list when Groups are off, and the spring update v20.3.1 on May 16 caused the systemwide font to become faint, among other bugs which TiVo's tech support claims are "intended" changes. Yeah, right. More like inept programmers and deficient beta testing.
> 
> You don't know the frustration you'll be in for with the Premiere's SDUI, and no fixes are in sight. If it weren't for Wish Lists and the fact I can transfer my favorite shows to a PC to strip out the commercials, I'd be using a cableco DVR.


I thought it was the HDUI that was buggy and half-finished on the S4s?


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

MHunter1 said:


> Hold on to analog as long as you can. Your cableco should provide plenty of warning before it goes all-digital. I would still be using my Series 2 Dual Tuner if Comcast hadn't discontinued analog transmission last year, forcing me to upgrade.
> 
> My household has no HDTVs, so we have to use the bug-infested SDUI on our two Premiere 4/XL4/Elites. The fall update v20.2.2.1 on December 5 ruined the SDUI's My Shows list when Groups are off, and the spring update v20.3.1 on May 16 caused the systemwide font to become faint, among other bugs which TiVo's tech support claims are "intended" changes. Yeah, right. More like inept programmers and deficient beta testing.
> 
> You don't know the frustration you'll be in for with the Premiere's SDUI, and no fixes are in sight. If it weren't for Wish Lists and the fact I can transfer my favorite shows to a PC to strip out the commercials, I'd be using a cableco DVR.


What? The HDUI is bad, the SDUI is bad...

The HDUI in a premier works fine and is faster then your current S2 system. The SDUI in a permier is lightning fast and will have a similar interface as your S2 system.

If you ever plan on upgrading your tube TV to a modern flat screen TV, the S2 is out of date old tech and will not support it.

FTLOG


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## stormtech (Mar 18, 2008)

bradleys said:


> If you ever plan on upgrading your tube TV to a modern flat screen TV, the S2 is out of date old tech and will not support it.
> 
> FTLOG


This is an interesting point - one that I didn't think of.

Please excuse my nativity - I know nothing about TV's, high definition, etc.

I guess my TV is pretty old - I don't know if it is actually a tube type, but it is a behemoth in size with a 30" screen. I relate it to a CRT monitor.

So, are you saying that if I upgrade to a flat screen TV, my present S2 box will not work with it? If not, would the Premier unit work with either my old TV or a new one?

I actually dread the day I have to buy a new TV as I am not familiar with all the acronyms and features. Now I even begin to wonder if a new TV would even work at all with my analog cable......


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

CRT= Cathode Ray Tube. If your screen is curved glass, this is what you have. Most old TVs are this.

Technically the S2 will work with most newer TVs, it just won't take advantage of their full capabilities. Odds are, the picture will look terrible. The Premiere is compatible with older TVs, although if the set only has an RF (coax) input, you'll need a converter for that (an old VCR will do).


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## stormtech (Mar 18, 2008)

wmcbrine said:


> CRT= Cathode Ray Tube. If your screen is curved glass, this is what you have. Most old TVs are this.
> 
> Technically the S2 will work with most newer TVs, it just won't take advantage of their full capabilities. Odds are, the picture will look terrible. The Premiere is compatible with older TVs, although if the set only has an RF (coax) input, you'll need a converter for that (an old VCR will do).


Thank you for clarifying this for me.

While I have no immediate need to upgrade my TV right now, I was just trying to be sure that if I had to buy a new one, either Tivo box would work with it.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

stormtech said:


> This is an interesting point - one that I didn't think of.
> 
> Please excuse my nativity - I know nothing about TV's, high definition, etc.
> 
> ...


The simple answer is everything will "work" with everything...But (there always is a But ) if how it works is acceptable or not is another matter.

The are several things that happened in the last few years:


Cable has moved from analog only to a combination of analog and digital, and will end up digital only
Over the air (OTA) broadcast have moved from analog to mostly digital (there very few low power analog channels left) and will be all digital soon. 
At the same time we have/are moving from stand definition (SD) to high definition (HD) TV. Just for reference analog can only be SD TV but digital can be SD or HD.
In addition the aspect ratio of programs made for TV has changed from 4:3 (most older CRT TVs) to 16:9. At this point nearly all new TVs are 16:9 HD flat panels. They can display older 4:3 and/or SD content but it might look like sh**. 
older Series 1 & 2 TiVos are SD only analog devices and can record from analog (cable and OTA depending on the model) or any cable/satellite Set top box (STB). They will work with any TV including new HD TVs but the content might look like sh**. 
Series 3 and dual tuner Premiere TiVos are HD digital devices and can record from analog or digital SD and HD cable and OTA. Cable cards are required for digital cable. They will work with any TV.
Premiere 4 & XL4 TiVos are HD digital devices and can only record from digital cable. Cable cards are required for digital cable. They will work with any TV.


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## stormtech (Mar 18, 2008)

atmuscarella said:


> The simple answer is everything will "work" with everything...But (there always is a But ) if how it works is acceptable or not is another matter.


Wow - fantastic summary! This has put it all in perspective for me and I think I've made a decision on what to do.

I am paying what I think is quite a low price for the cable TV that I now have. don't watch all that much TV so what I have now is sufficient.

Being that it is fairly inevitable that the cable company will eventually switch over to all digital, when they do I am sure I will have to pay more at that point.

Since my TV is fairly antiquated, it kind of makes a good match for my current S2 receiver. I now understand why the new TV's are a more rectangular shape being that the new standard ratio is 16:9. Also I was talking with my wife about this over lunch, and said that it was mentioned here that if I ever witnessed HDTV, I would probably be blown away. She said that her parents have HD, and it is in fact something to see.

So my plan of action (or inaction) for now is to not change anything. I am so glad to learn here that the change over to digital is inevitable. At that point, I will go ahead and buy a new TV, and more than likely get DirecTV - they seem to always have a promotion going that includes a DVR for free, and HD programming with them is standard (don't have to pay an extra fee).

I really appreciate all the responses - what a great group you have here! I've learned a lot in these couple pages for sure. I always want to be an informed consumer, but am very lax with my knowledge of TV and audio. At least now I know that sometime in the near future I will have to upgrade my equipment (TV & DVR) and will not be so lost when the time comes.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

I think the S2 picture is good on a small 19" LCD TV.


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## lillevig (Dec 7, 2010)

If you are satisfied with analog, then you could get a dual-tuner Series2 Tivo with lifetime for less than the Premeire without lifetime. The only caveat is that the S2DT will only work with cable - no OTA.


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## smithken31100 (Mar 5, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> For now. But they could switch all your channels to digital tomorrow and then it would be useless.


Absolutely true but for now it is useful. The shows I record on the series 2 are repeated often so if I miss any I can catch them with the Premiere.


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## lillevig (Dec 7, 2010)

Dan203 said:


> Why would anyone get a S2 at this point? I have several in my closet just collecting dust. Even with a SDTV the hassle of using a cable box and IR blasters would steer me toward at least a S3.


Still an number of cable providers that include analog versions. I have Suddenlink and they do. Also, my daughter in Iowa lives in a giant apartment complex that includes TV service with it's own special lineup from the cable company. It is analog and I suspect that is not an uncommon situation. There is a new college apartment complex here that does the same thing.


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## buscuitboy (Aug 8, 2005)

poppagene said:


> You're throwing away money by paying $129 a year for service when you could buy a suitablle subsitute for $50 that includes service for the life of the unit. Clearly you need to replace the series 2 you have sooner rather than later and if you want to add another do so as well. You can revisit the upgrade to s newer model later when your cable company drags you into the digital age.


I will tell you that I had a Series 2 dual tuner and was able to get it lifetimed for $99 so you may want to at least try this instead of paying $129 a year. I wound up selling it a year later on ebay and got MORE than what I paid for the lifetime so it paid for itself there. Keep in mind though that a lifetimed S2 is worth less these days then when I sold it (late 2012) & keeps decreasing over time so don't get it based solely on resale value.

Also, I will tell you that I have gotten some Series 3s off Craigslist for about $30 each & was then also able to ultimately lifetime them for $99 without buying a new Premiere. Now, I already had a monthly Premiere on my account and I would initially sign up these used Series 3s for just a monthly subscription. Since there is a free 30 day period, I would then call them & basically told them if I can't $99 lifetime the Series 3, then I was gonna cancel BOTH the series 3 and the monthly Premiere. This seemed to be enough motivation to make them give me the $99 lifetime option for the series 3s.

This is just my experience and worked for me, but maybe you can somehow use a similar tactic; Get a Series 3 off craigslist or ebay for cheap. Sign it up, but then call TiVo within 30 days and ask to lifetime the series 3. Threaten to cancel BOTH Tivos (your current S2 and the S3) if they don't apply the $99 lifetime to the Series 3 box. I would bet the chances are good that they would apply it, but not totally sure either.


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## moedaman (Aug 21, 2012)

lillevig said:


> Still an number of cable providers that include analog versions. I have Suddenlink and they do. Also, my daughter in Iowa lives in a giant apartment complex that includes TV service with it's own special lineup from the cable company. It is analog and I suspect that is not an uncommon situation. There is a new college apartment complex here that does the same thing.


Yep, Comcast still has analog on at my son's college dorm. When I set-up his 22" lcd tv, I scanned 60 analog and 20 digital channels. He ended up buying a 80gb lifetimed S2 for $75 to use there.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

stormtech said:


> I just double checked - I am in fact receiving an analog signal. If I were to want a digital signal, I would have to have a converter box with comes with an extra fee.


So you mean you plug the cable directly into the Tivo and NOT a cable box, right?


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## stormtech (Mar 18, 2008)

mattack said:


> So you mean you plug the cable directly into the Tivo and NOT a cable box, right?


Yes - that is correct.

And to add - I think I jinxed myself now - my 15+ year old tube TV is going out. So I am off to start the first stage of this upgrade sooner than I thought with buying a new TV.


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

OMG, you will not regret the upgrades. Both to your TiVo and to HD.

Definitely go lifetime. If you got your S2 in 2004 (they came out in 2002), you've paid over $1K in subscriptions, plus the initial hardware cost. I didn't read the whole thread, not sure if you need 4 tuners. But I just got (11 June) an offer from TiVo for a $449 500GB TiVo Premiere that includes lifetime service.

That there's a no brainer.

PS: PM me if you do not see that offer. Also, for $100 or so (depending on current drive prices) you can put that original 500GB drive on a shelf as backup and dupe it to a 2TB drive, giving you 300 hours of HD and a billion (give or take) of SD.


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

ThreeSoFar said:


> OMG, you will not regret the upgrades. Both to your TiVo and to HD.
> 
> Definitely go lifetime. If you got your S2 in 2004 (they came out in 2002), you've paid over $1K in subscriptions, plus the initial hardware cost. I didn't read the whole thread, not sure if you need 4 tuners. But I just got (11 June) an offer from TiVo for a $449 500GB TiVo Premiere that includes lifetime service.
> 
> ...


FWIW, the 4tuner one is only $549 lifetimed. However, I don't like that option--they took away OTA with the 4 tuner P4.


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## stormtech (Mar 18, 2008)

ThreeSoFar said:


> FWIW, the 4tuner one is only $549 lifetimed. However, I don't like that option--they took away OTA with the 4 tuner P4.


My only option right now is the standard Premier 2 tuner unit as none of the rest will work with my analog cable.

At this point, even though I just ordered a new TV, I am going to keep my S2 unit. Upgrading at this point to just the 2 tuner premier unit isn't that much of an upgrade except for storage capacity. Also, if/when my cable company forces digital on me, I will likely be switching to DirecTV. The cable service I have now is pretty bad - the only reason I am sticking with it right now is being grandfathered in at old prices for basic cable. So with that, upgrading my Tivo unit or even getting a lifetime subscription isn't worth it as I don't know how long it will be before I need to change providers.


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## stormtech (Mar 18, 2008)

Ok folks - I'd like to know more about upgrading to a Premier unit.

When going through the process of getting a new TV, it came to me about the availability to have Netfilx etc. I've never used such a service, but it sounds interesting for the price.

If I would get the 2 tuner Premier unit, how does it work with Netflix? Is it all interconnected somehow? How are the shows from Netflix downloaded to the Tivo unit? I do have my current unit connected via WiFi, but it seems to me it would be rather slow that way. I do have ethernet wiring available - can the Premier unit be connected via ethernet cable or would it be WiFi only? If WiFi, how long does it take to download a 1 hour show?


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Netflix movies are streamed in real time, not downloaded. (Amazon movies are downloaded, though.) WiFi should be fast enough, although wired is always more reliable.

I should probably mention that you can get the Netflix capability from a Roku, which is a lot cheaper than a TiVo and doesn't need a subscription. Then again, it's nice to have everything on one box.


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## stormtech (Mar 18, 2008)

Ok - thanks. That brings the question - does the Premier unit have an ethernet port? While you say that WiFi would work OK, I'd like to hook it up via enternet directly to my router for the best connection.


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## bshrock (Jan 6, 2012)

Yes, all the Premieres have an Ethernet port


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## stormtech (Mar 18, 2008)

bshrock said:


> Yes, all the Premieres have an Ethernet port


Good deal. I figured if I had an ethernet connection available, might as well use it. I had a line run to my daughters bedroom years ago - just pulled it from there are routed it to my TV area - tested and works great.


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## lillevig (Dec 7, 2010)

stormtech said:


> Good deal. I figured if I had an ethernet connection available, might as well use it. I had a line run to my daughters bedroom years ago - just pulled it from there are routed it to my TV area - tested and works great.


Just to put in a plug for a fellow Community member, I think ReplayTV still has one lifetimed 2-channel Premeire for sale at $350. Check the Buy/Sell forum.


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## stormtech (Mar 18, 2008)

lillevig said:


> Just to put in a plug for a fellow Community member, I think ReplayTV still has one lifetimed 2-channel Premeire for sale at $350. Check the Buy/Sell forum.


I guess I don't have privileges enough - I don't see a buy/sell forum.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

stormtech said:


> I guess I don't have privileges enough - I don't see a buy/sell forum.


Look what I'm selling on eBay forum

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=68

eBay bypass member to member forum

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=72


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## MHunter1 (Oct 11, 2007)

stormtech said:


> how does it work with Netflix?


Don't get too excited about TiVo's Netflix app. Netflix designs a unique interface for each platform it authorizes its service to run on, and TiVo's is substandard.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=491641

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=505510


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## javabird (Oct 13, 2006)

Sorry if slightly OT, but I have a deactivated S2DT I'm no longer using and I want to donate it or recycle it (it doesn't have LT). Is there anything I need to do to it, other than resetting it?


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## stormtech (Mar 18, 2008)

Thought I would follow up after my installation Saturday.

First and foremost, I want to thank everyone for their help and opinions/suggestions here. The biggest thing was the part of only the 2 tuner model working with analog cable - it would have been such a frustrating experience had I bought a 4 tuner model and trying to figure out why it wasn't working.

Installation went well. I had to call in to activate the new unit as it was a service transfer - so nice to talk with an american who speaks perfect English! After ~2 hours of downloading and loading, all is working great.

One thing that bothers me with the new unit is one of the Season Pass options. I mostly record only new programs - not reruns. When setting that option, I noticed it now says "new" and/or "rerun" instead of "first run" and/or "rerun" Now it is recording almost everything and driving me nuts. I did a search on this, and from what I found this new unit will treat "new" as not being recorded before. I wonder why they did this. When I had my old unit set to "first run only" it behaved quite nicely. From what I read, I guess it will calm down after 30 days. Now in the meantime I have to go in and delete lots of programs, and am getting quite a few conflicts with my Season Passes.

Thanks again everyone - your help is really appreciated!

Edit to add: I now have 2 MoCa adapters and a POE filter that I have no use for. Are these worth anything, or should I just hang on to them in case I might find a later use for them?


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

There's been no change in season pass behavior that I'm aware of, besides the labelling. Bear in mind that some shows are rerun without episode-specific data, in which case the TiVo will record them just to be on the safe side. But this was also true on the Series 2. Also, make sure it's actually set to "New" -- the default is "New and Repeats".


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

The MoCa adopters allow your in house CATV wiring to carry the network data to your TiVo at very high speeds. One gives the TiVo network, while the other connects the CATV tomtour router or your local LAN.

They're much better than wifi gor your TiVo. They have value and the for sale thread here would likely snatch them up if you don't need them.



stormtech said:


> Thought I would follow up after my installation Saturday.
> 
> First and foremost, I want to thank everyone for their help and opinions/suggestions here. The biggest thing was the part of only the 2 tuner model working with analog cable - it would have been such a frustrating experience had I bought a 4 tuner model and trying to figure out why it wasn't working.
> 
> ...


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## stormtech (Mar 18, 2008)

ThreeSoFar said:


> The MoCa adopters allow your in house CATV wiring to carry the network data to your TiVo at very high speeds. One gives the TiVo network, while the other connects the CATV tomtour router or your local LAN.
> 
> They're much better than wifi gor your TiVo. They have value and the for sale thread here would likely snatch them up if you don't need them.


Thanks for the explanation. I only have 1 TV with 1 Tivo unit which is hard wired with ethernet directly to my router. I guess I'll put them up for sale here where someone would hopefully get some use from them.


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## stormtech (Mar 18, 2008)

wmcbrine said:


> There's been no change in season pass behavior that I'm aware of, besides the labelling. Bear in mind that some shows are rerun without episode-specific data, in which case the TiVo will record them just to be on the safe side. But this was also true on the Series 2. Also, make sure it's actually set to "New" -- the default is "New and Repeats".


Thanks - it's just that it seems to be recording reruns for some shows when I have them set to "new". I'll give it some time to get it sorted.

Like you said - if the Tivo isn't sure, it's better to be safe and record them!


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Unless there's bad guide data, it sounds like you might mean episodes that were new within the past ~2 weeks. Those are still counted as "new" from Tivo's perspective (e.g. a HBO show that's rerun many times within the next week -- it doesn't have to be the EXACT initial airing).

"Bad guide data" meaning you get the generic show info rather than specific episode info. For this, the Tivo can't really do anything but record them all (though one of the million prefs I'd want would be a way to default to off - though I know that would make me miss a show and be POed at some point)


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

How anyone can still be using SDTVs? HD is EVERYWHERE.

And OP, I don't believe that you'd never seen an HDTV. That's pretty much impossible. Every bar or restaurant pretty much has HDTV's these days for sports and stuff, and every Wal-Mart, Best Buy, BJs etc, has at least 20 of them on display, if not way more.

Heck, I had HD content at home well before the cable company upgraded to support a significant amount of it, as online shows in addition to iTunes had it.

But, good to hear you finally got with the times! I'm sure that you noticed even the SD channels are much higher quality now that you are tuning the digital versions, not the analog. And HD is night and day.


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## stormtech (Mar 18, 2008)

Bigg said:


> How anyone can still be using SDTVs? HD is EVERYWHERE.
> 
> And OP, I don't believe that you'd never seen an HDTV. That's pretty much impossible. Every bar or restaurant pretty much has HDTV's these days for sports and stuff, and every Wal-Mart, Best Buy, BJs etc, has at least 20 of them on display, if not way more.
> 
> ...


I still haven't experienced HD TV. I don't go to any bars or restaurants that have a TV in them, and there are no Best Buy, Bj's, etc within 100 miles of where I live.

But yes, I am enjoying the new TV even though it is an analog signal - I really do see a difference in the picture. Still no digital versions though. I did subscribe to Netflix now with the new Tivo unit, but I don't know if their streaming content is HD or not.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Being a brand new Tivo, it is going to think everything is "new" because there is no recording history (yet).
As far as the Tivo is concerned, a show must be new if it hasn't recorded it before.
This is only temporary behavior. Once the recording history gets built up and actual new episodes start airing for the season pass, it will go away.


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## stormtech (Mar 18, 2008)

steve614 said:


> Being a brand new Tivo, it is going to think everything is "new" because there is no recording history (yet).
> As far as the Tivo is concerned, a show must be new if it hasn't recorded it before.
> This is only temporary behavior. Once the recording history gets built up and actual new episodes start airing for the season pass, it will go away.


I'm glad to hear that. One part of this that was confusing for me is with my old series 2 unit, the options were listed as "first run" or rerun. Now with the Premier unit, it is listed as "new" and rerun.

I understand exactly what you are saying now, so it should calm down after the first 30 days or so.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

stormtech said:


> I still haven't experienced HD TV. I don't go to any bars or restaurants that have a TV in them, and there are no Best Buy, Bj's, etc within 100 miles of where I live.
> 
> But yes, I am enjoying the new TV even though it is an analog signal - I really do see a difference in the picture. Still no digital versions though. I did subscribe to Netflix now with the new Tivo unit, but I don't know if their streaming content is HD or not.


WHAT?!?!? The farthest distance between Wal-Marts that I can find in NW PA is about 30 miles. and they have like 30+ HDTVs in every store. I just can't believe that. Most places I go now have at least one HDTV, some have many, many more, including a lot of the big chains.

Netflix is HD. I think most of their stuff is 720p, someone correct me if I'm wrong here.


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