# The Demise of an HR10-250: Dumb VCR?



## Jimmmmbo! (Jun 20, 2004)

So, I think this is "Yes", but I want to verify.

If an HR10-250 used to be with D*, and then cancelled, and before the cancellation can no longer phone home because the phone line is no longer connected, AND the D* satellite input is disconnected from the unit (again, before the cancellation), can the unit continue to be used in manual program mode as a "dumb vcr"?

Is there something simpler than this process (other than ebay)? I'm thinking that it's time to dump D* (for personal reasons) but don't want to lose my $1000 investment completely if I don't have to.

I'm looking at using the HR10-250 for OTA use only.

Thanks!


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

No. Without a satellite connection authorizing DVR service, you cannot record. You can use the HR10 as an OTA tuner but you can't record.


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## Jimmmmbo! (Jun 20, 2004)

I forgot to mention that my HR10 is hacked. So any phone call home is faked.

The unit would be disconnected from the dish before I make the call to cancel service.

The way I figure it, if the unit never receives the signal to stop service, it would be kind of like it was in a permament "rain-fade" situation, or a misaligned dish.

The main concern I would have is if the software would have a time limit on how long it would tolerate a no-signal condition before it might say "OK, you're cheating, I'm not going to let you record anymore."


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## puffdaddy (Mar 1, 2006)

Jimmmmbo! said:


> The main concern I would have is if the software would have a time limit on how long it would tolerate a no-signal condition before it might say "OK, you're cheating, I'm not going to let you record anymore."


I believe that if a combo box finds itself without a satellite feed for ~12-24 hours, it moves into the "Full Service Account Closed" state and will no longer allow any DVR functions beyond the the live TV trick play.

I suggest calling DTV and asking them how much it would be to use your unit as an OTA-only device (there exists an option in the guided setup for just that). Let us know what you learn.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

The satellite sends down a signal that authorizes the DVR service on your box. You will not be able to record if it's not receiving that authorization from the satellite. While it may work for a little while if you disconnect the satellites after this authorization is received, it would not record after the box reboots for any reason.


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## Jimmmmbo! (Jun 20, 2004)

Yes, I wondered about the reboot situation. I was concerned about if the box attempts to validate its service on every boot. I'm guessing that's true?


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## puffdaddy (Mar 1, 2006)

Every reboot it validates its subscription/authorization and every ~12-24 hours it needs to acquire a sat signal or else it refuses to allow you to watch live TV (preventing OTA viewing) as well...

You said your unit is hacked though. How hacked is it?


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## Swytch (Jan 27, 2006)

puffdaddy said:


> Every reboot it validates its subscription/authorization and every ~12-24 hours it needs to acquire a sat signal or else it refuses to allow you to watch live TV (preventing OTA viewing) as well...


I recently moved, and well long story short, I had my receiver and OTA antenna hooked up at my new house, with no satellite for about 1 and a half weeks. By running guided setup and disabling the sat connections (set to OTA only) I was able to view OTA HD channels, even pause or rewind live TV during the entire time period I was without satellite. I just had no DVR service, so I could not record or even manually record (Stupid IMO). I even had moved the receiver to a few different rooms during this time period, which obviously causes it to reboot.

The only thing that is a little odd is that without the sat connection, you have no guide and the channels are not mapped to the correct channels, you have to use the frequencies instead. Just go into the test OTA signal strength screen, and go through the frequencies slowly until you get a signal. It will tell you the channel information (KDVR, KUSA, etc - you will have to know what local channel those are for). Once you get a signal for the channel you want to watch, note the frequency, then go to live TV, and using your remote enter the frequency followed by a '-' (the jump to end or 30 second skip button) and then a 1 (or 2 or 3 if the station has multiple channels). You will only be able to get to these channels by number with the remote, because since you have no guide, channel up and down will not do anything. For example: my local Fox channel is channel 31, but is broadcast in HD on frequency 32, so i had to go to channel 32-1 to view it.

So actually OTA Viewing is possible without a sat connection.

My unit is also hacked, however this should work on an unhacked box as well...



puffdaddy said:


> You said your unit is hacked though. How hacked is it?


just out of curiosity, why do you ask this? Is there a hack to enable recording without a sat signal?


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I did say above that OTA viewing (not recording) is possible without a sat connection.

The box looks for periodic updates on the DVR service status from the satellite. If you disconnect, you may be able to record for a few hours, but not much more than that.


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## captain_video (Mar 1, 2002)

I discontinued my DirecTV service back in February. Before I called to cancel I removed the access card from my HR10-250, disconnected the sat feeds, and shut down the DVR. Afterwards I powered it back up with a different access card inserted and reconnected the sat feeds to continue getting the guide data. I can still get OTA channels just fine without the DTV subscription or the original card inserted, as would anyone using this setup. If I want to record an OTA program I tune to an OTA channel, disconnect the sat inputs, and reinsert the original access card. 

I've been recording OTA channels without a DTV sub for several months now. I only do it on occasion just to see if it will actually work. The season passes I have set up to record "24" still function just fine and the HDTivo has continued to record the show each week since the DTV service has been discontinued. 

I can use all of the Tivo features because the DVR tier has not been wiped from the card. I don't expect this will last much longer because I'm pretty sure the tier expires after a while and has to be refreshed via the sat feed. Obviously I can't expose the card to the datastream or the DVR tier will get wiped within a short time. I don't really need to use the HDTivo for OTA recording since I built an HTPC to perform that task. I just find it interesting that it's still working after almost three months. 

I find it amusing that so many people swear this won't work without having actually tried it on their own.


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## Jimmmmbo! (Jun 20, 2004)

puffdaddy said:


> You said your unit is hacked though. How hacked is it?


It's been zippered, with most every option installed. I too was wondering if someone had discovered "a way" around the activation code. I know, I know, no talk of hacking for free service here. But that's not the goal here. I just want to be able to actually use the recorder for OTA, not steal satellite service.


captain_video said:


> Afterwards I powered it back up with a different access card inserted and reconnected the sat feeds to continue getting the guide data.


This is interesting. What is the status of the different access card that lets you continue to get guide data? Where did that card come from?

I also have an HTPC solution for recording HD OTA. It's just cleaner to use the HR10 (especially with 2 tuners), not to mention getting some continued use out of my $1000 I paid for this future paperweight before I put it on ebay.


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## puffdaddy (Mar 1, 2006)

captain_video said:


> The season passes I have set up to record "24" still function just fine and the HDTivo has continued to record the show each week since the DTV service has been discontinued.


Have you noticed anything unusual with the guide data from the sat when using your "junk" card?


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## Lije Baley (May 12, 2004)

Ok, my time has come. An offer I couldn't refuse and D* is installing two HR 20-100s next weekend. After an early acquisition (May '04) of my first 10-250, I'll be closing two of them down. 

I've got more recorded programming than I can watch in one week on each machine. If I disconnect the phone line on one (the other hasn't been connected since the 6.3 rollout began) and disconnect the satellite feeds from both, will I be able to access my now playing lists on each machine after they have been deactivated?

I hate to change from Tivo, but most on this forum will have to choose between D* and Tivo in the next few months. Right now the Tivos still have some resale value.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

You can still watch recordings after deactivation.


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## Lije Baley (May 12, 2004)

Jim,
Will I need to disconnect before deactivation?

Thanks


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## captain_video (Mar 1, 2002)

> This is interesting. What is the status of the different access card that lets you continue to get guide data? Where did that card come from?


The access card was one that had been used in another receiver that had long since been disconnected. There's nothing special about it (i.e., it had not been hacked or tweaked in any way). I just grabbed an old card and put it in the HDTivo.

You can get guide data indefinitely with no subscription as long as you have an access card inserted and a connection to the dish. The access card does not have to be activated or even a new card. Any old card will do, as long as it's one that's still used with the current datastream (you can't use one of the old F, H, or Hu cards).

I had an S2 DTivo that was hacked with the superpatch to enable the MRV features. The DTivo had not been activated on my account for over a year yet it maintained up to date guide data for the entire time. The only thing was that I would get nag messages about activating the DVR service every so often. I used it as a dummy terminal to transfer shows from the S2 DTivo I had set up in my son's room with a couple of season passes.



> Have you noticed anything unusual with the guide data from the sat when using your "junk" card?


Not at all. The guide data was just the same as it was when the unit was activated.

UPDATE: I just updated the HDTivo to 6.3d about a week ago and the record function no longer works with the original access card. I don't know if the upgrade had anything to do with it or if the DVR tier had finally expired. I suspect the DVR tier just ran out and needed to be refreshed, which is pretty much what I expected would happen.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Lije Baley said:


> Jim,
> Will I need to disconnect before deactivation?
> 
> Thanks


That has been suggested to ensure that a signal from the sat doesn't disable things. I'm not totally sure about that, so just to be safe, disconnect the sat lines and of course the phone line.


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## Lije Baley (May 12, 2004)

Will do. Thanks.


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## jhearn (Apr 23, 2004)

JimSpence said:


> That has been suggested to ensure that a signal from the sat doesn't disable things. I'm not totally sure about that, so just to be safe, disconnect the sat lines and of course the phone line.


I will be deactivating my DirecTV TIVOs tonight, but I want to make sure that I can offload or view the recordings later. So I should disconnect the satellite feeds before deactivating? Do I lie to the DirecTV person if asked if the TIVOs are still hooked up or will that be a question?


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## codespy (Jan 7, 2006)

Disconnect your sat feeds first. They won't even question it when you deactivate.


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## Da Goon (Oct 22, 2006)

codespy said:


> Disconnect your sat feeds first.


You don't even have to do that.


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## codespy (Jan 7, 2006)

True, don't know what I was thinking. Got sucked into Captain's post I guess.


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## jhearn (Apr 23, 2004)

codespy said:


> True, don't know what I was thinking. Got sucked into Captain's post I guess.


Not a problem I disconnected the feeds to my TIVOs prior to calling. It was sad after more than eleven years I think of DirecTV service to call it quits.

And this would be a good time to thank the members of this forum for all the fun and discovery over the years. Good luck to all of you.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

jhearn said:


> Not a problem I disconnected the feeds to my TIVOs prior to calling. It was sad after more than eleven years I think of DirecTV service to call it quits.
> 
> And this would be a good time to thank the members of this forum for all the fun and discovery over the years. Good luck to all of you.


Did you leave because there is no Tivo HD at D* or for some other reason? In any case, good luck with your new service.


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## jhearn (Apr 23, 2004)

RS4 said:


> Did you leave because there is no Tivo HD at D* or for some other reason? In any case, good luck with your new service.


Not really. I have agonized over this decision for a few months now. After reading just about everyting here, at dslreports.com and the highdef forum I decided to try something new and had FIOS TV installed. Its a one year contract so I will be revisiting DirecTV as an option in one year.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

from all my reading as long as i disconnect the sat lines, and the phone line, I'll be able to watch the recorded programs. But I was wondering if the access card needs to be installed as I'm going to be giving the unit to someone who wont have DTV for at least a few months but wants to watch all the stuff on it. But i dont want to give them the access card. 

Will you still be able to watch stuff with no nag screens or other verbiage popping up on the screen or does it at least need to see a card in the slot?

oh and while watching the recorded stuff, can you still FF rewind and pause?


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

If there is no access card and/or no satellite connection, you will occasionally see an error message on the screen. But you can still watch recorded programs and do anything with them you could normally.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

does keeping the card in prevent this error message and otherwise make the recording 'uninterrupted'


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## codespy (Jan 7, 2006)

It's not interrupted per se, it's just a nag at the bottom of the screen for the first 5 minutes that says please insert valid access card. This is on the HDVR2 and the SD-DVR's. I don't think this happens on the HR10's.


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## jhearn (Apr 23, 2004)

I have gotten around to the task of off loading video I had recorded on my HR10-250 which I deactivated almost a year and a half ago. But when I power the DVR up, I get "Welcome Powering Up" message, then "Updating Database, this will take a while" message, then the DVR reboots to the "Welcome Powering Up" message. Is there a way around this?


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

jhearn said:


> I have gotten around to the task of off loading video I had recorded on my HR10-250 which I deactivated almost a year and a half ago. But when I power the DVR up, I get "Welcome Powering Up" message, then "Updating Database, this will take a while" message, then the DVR reboots to the "Welcome Powering Up" message. Is there a way around this?


Sounds like your hard drive is damaged. You might be able to fix it with a hard drive diagnotic utility, but that requires removing the drive and connecting to a PC using the drive manufacturer's diagnostics.


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## jhearn (Apr 23, 2004)

litzdog911 said:


> Sounds like your hard drive is damaged. You might be able to fix it with a hard drive diagnotic utility, but that requires removing the drive and connecting to a PC using the drive manufacturer's diagnostics.


I'll let Spinrite take a look at it. I wanted to make sure that it is correct I should be able to power the TIVO up and offload recordings without a satellite connection. And I disconnected the DVR before I made the call to DirecTV to deactivate my account.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Doesn't matter if the DVR saw that the service was deactivated - you can still view old recordings.


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## edkut (Mar 14, 2009)

If you connect the satellite connection and I think you only need 1 it should boot up and let you view shows on the list. I recently got a used HR10-250 and that worked for me. I have since activated it but I used it for about 2 weeks like that. It also allowed me to record OTA as well before I activated it.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

I believe pressing the TiVo button will allow you to go to the Now Playing list.


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## jhearn (Apr 23, 2004)

JimSpence said:


> I believe pressing the TiVo button will allow you to go to the Now Playing list.





litzdog911 said:


> Sounds like your hard drive is damaged. You might be able to fix it with a hard drive diagnotic utility, but that requires removing the drive and connecting to a PC using the drive manufacturer's diagnostics.





stevel said:


> Doesn't matter if the DVR saw that the service was deactivated - you can still view old recordings.





edkut said:


> If you connect the satellite connection and I think you only need 1 it should boot up and let you view shows on the list. I recently got a used HR10-250 and that worked for me. I have since activated it but I used it for about 2 weeks like that. It also allowed me to record OTA as well before I activated it.


Thanks all. I dug deeper into the junk bin and found another archive hard disk and it booted up fine. I skipped the satellite search using the DirectTivo button and without a satellite connection was able to playback some vintage recordings.


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## pujoe1 (Jan 29, 2002)

Lije Baley said:


> Ok, my time has come. An offer I couldn't refuse and D* is installing two HR 20-100s next weekend. After an early acquisition (May '04) of my first 10-250, I'll be closing two of them down.
> 
> I hate to change from Tivo, but most on this forum will have to choose between D* and Tivo in the next few months.


I'm just the opposite. I've been with D* since 1997, but I'm about to switch to Verizon FIOS. A couple of years ago I upgraded HD DVRs and had to abandon my TiVOs. I still have an HR10-250 as a third HD DVR, but it doesn't pick up much of the latest D* HD stuff. It does OTA, but that's about it.

Now that Verizon has installed FiOS in my area, the high bandwidth Internet calls to me. I can also save bucks switching TV also--and get back to Tivo by purchasing a couple of TiVO HD units.

It is tough switching after all these years, but the TiVO draw is strong.


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