# Heroes - "Better Halves" - 10/30/2006



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Hasn't even started here, but I'm SOOO looking forward to it. 

EDIT: And now I see a thread for it started earlier today.  Can't people read the rules, I figured it would be enough for me to check that none was started within the last 2 hours...


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

Nah, we'll use this one. That one was more about TV Guide's spoilers.



Is it even remotely possible that Nikki's alter ego is Sylar? I hadn't thought so, but she is definitely a bad-ass supervillainess.

And D.L. had himself a Vision moment! Whoo hoo!


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## kurtangle (Oct 3, 2005)

my directivo messed up on this episode for the first time ever

it did not record Heroes saying that there was an episode of same title within last 24 hrs  :down:


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## alansh (Jan 3, 2003)

There's a rerun on SciFi later in the week; just explicitly program your TiVo to get it.

Still airing here in the Mountain timezone.


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## Ghost_Dog1 (Apr 25, 2006)

So was that Nikki's alter ego on the cover of 9th wonders?


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## crowfan (Dec 27, 2003)

The ep got cut off right when the little girl with the short hair went to Issac's place. What happened after he opened the door?


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## Ghost_Dog1 (Apr 25, 2006)

crowfan said:


> The ep got cut off right when the little girl with the short hair went to Issac's place. What happened after he opened the door?


He asked who she was. She said "I'm a fan of your work". I think she may have asked to come in.

Thats it.


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## syberspunk (Oct 31, 2006)

I screwed up and I missed tonight's episode. Any chance that any kind person has their tivo set up for access via the net? And would be nice enough to let me download tonight's episode?

Or would anyone be willing to upload tonight's episode in .tivo format somehwere, like on megaupload or something? I'd appreciate any help. Thanks. 

Ste


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

If you have Sci Fi channel, it'll be aired there on Friday. You can also get it from iTunes.


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## renov (Jan 27, 2006)

This show is quickly becoming the best new show of the season. Could the girl with Issac at the end be Sylar? When DL came out of the wall, wow, that was one of the coolest things I have seen. I think there is no doubt now that the son has powers of some kind.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

I had a power failure: I was behind live tv, then the power failed, and I ended up watching the last 15 minutes live, then going back and getting the 10 minutes I missed. I was time traveling back and forth, kind of like Hiro. 

Anyway, I saw the girl being a plant from her introduction. Interesting how the father reacted to "save the cheerleader." And the Nikki arc is still my least favorite. At least they didn't try to shoehorn the cop into this episode.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

I just want to say and brag...I called it when it came to Eden

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4487448&highlight=mohinder#post4487448


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## katbug (Oct 3, 2003)

k, gonna post in the thread since it's still fairly new, but will duck out before it gets too long...just wanted to ask how people already knew about DL's ability to walk through walls before this? Wasn't last week his first appearance (where he didn't do much)?

P.S. Mine got cut off early too, just as he opened the door and she started to introduce herself. Thanks for the conclusion! ;0)


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

A few comments:

Someone mentioned early on that Eden might be one of the bad guys and it looks like that was a good call. (Great name, too. Appropriate.) - edited to give credit to mwhip who beat me by a hair in posting his own props 

Are we pretty sure that those were not Claire's true biological parents?

I was having a bit of a LotR flashback during Nikki's mirror conversation between her two halves. I'd say that her storyline still is the least interesting to me, which made this episode drag a bit, but still good in general.

katbug - they showed DL go through the wall in the previews after last week's episode.


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## alansh (Jan 3, 2003)

Looks like it ran over a bit -- better pad it. 

Eden showed up at Issac's. He asked her who she was, and she said "I'm an admirer of your work. May I come in?"

It then cut to Niki (or her alter ego -- the shoulder is covered so we can't see if the tattoo is there) still lying on the floor. Mohinder does narration: "Evolution is an imperfect and often violent process. Morality loses its meaning. The question of good and evil reduced to one simple choice: survive or perish."


The shot of DL strangling her from the inside was


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## katbug (Oct 3, 2003)

Aha! Thank you Zevida!


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Zevida said:


> Are we pretty sure that those were not Claire's true biological parents?


I'm sure.

When Hiro and Robin ducked into the men's room at the poker game, I heard the shouted line "Who invited her?" followed by the screams, and I suspected Nikki was there to save Hiro. I like how it turned out better.

Hiro is still the greatest though. "I had a sword." 

BTW - I recorded Heroes tonight on my TiVo (HR10-250) and on my Cablevision 8300HD, and both got cut off at the end. However, TiVo recorded about 12 seconds longer than Cablevision's box, so "TiVo! Whoopee!"


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Zevida said:


> Are we pretty sure that those were not Claire's true biological parents?


Yes.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Amnesia said:


> Yes.


They still could have been. Her Dad could have had her made to try and produce a "hero" and then put her in the system and adopted her.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

crowfan said:


> The ep got cut off right when the little girl with the short hair went to Issac's place. What happened after he opened the door?


Same here (glad to see it didn't miss much). This reminded me why I've almost entirely stopped watching TV and download everything instead... are the networks really trying that hard to shoot themselves in the foot or what?

This episode was unfortunately not as good as the previous one. I miss Nathan!  Nikki is just not compelling enough of a character IMO to warrant this much exposure in one episode.

I wasn't surprised to see that short-haired girl was working with cheerleader dad. Also, I'm starting to think that cheerleader dad is one of the good guys. I'm not sure about the bio-parents - they could be the real ones or they could not. Judging by the look on the bio-mom, I'm thinking they might be the real ones, but that cheerleader dad is blackmailing them or something similar.

Good writing though - the whole thing is moving along quite nicely overall.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

good episode.

When Hiro learned he had a sword, I knew what his reaction would be. 

When D.L. said "a woman set me up", I knew it was Nikki. Why would Nikki come to save Hiro? There is no way she even knows about him. Seeing D.L. stick his hand into Nikki's body was cool as hell.

I was wrong about Eden. I really didn't think she was involved. I'm still not convinced Claire's is a good guy. When he told Claire she could meet her birth parents, my first reaction was he just arranged for some people to act as if they were her parents. I'm pretty sure that was the case. 



-- save the cheerleader. save the world.


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## Cboath (Jun 22, 2004)

Awesome awesome show.

I am pretty confident that those were not Claire's real parents either.

DL unlocking the door while Nikki wasn't looking was pretty cool.

My DVR cut the recording short as well so thanks for the recap!


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I forgot to mention that my TiVo cut off early too. (or really, more likely, it ran a bit late).. I freaked. Then, I remembered it was TiVoing Friday Night Lights. So, I switched over to that and finished up the last 30 seconds of the show.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

My DVR cut off even earlier than all of yours... mine cut off as soon as Isaac wiped off the paint covering the double helix tattoo on the painting of Nikki.

I too am having the most trouble with Nikki's plotline. I mean, it is fairly obvious she's going to be one of the "heroes," but right now, she doesn't exactly seem like a hero. I mean, she could be, but her alter-ego isn't exactly cute and cuddly. 

It definitely seems like those were not really her parents... the way her "dad" thanked the so-called bio-dad, then her mom revealed that they tried and failed to find the biological parents once before. it's too convenient that they were so easily found now.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

This show probably costs someone a few million dollars per episode to make, right?

Can't they afford to even borrow 8 or 10 *different* $100 bills rather than making copies of one bill to use for the top of each stack? Come on... I know they pay people good money for watching over these little details. Why don't we ever hear of someone being fired for doing a poor job at it?

Well, unless they're supposed to be counterfeit bills...


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

dswallow said:


> This show probably costs someone a few million dollars per episode to make, right?
> 
> Can't they afford to even borrow 8 or 10 *different* $100 bills rather than making copies of one bill to use for the top of each stack? Come on... I know they pay people good money for watching over these little details. Why don't we ever hear of someone being fired for doing a poor job at it?
> 
> Well, unless they're supposed to be counterfeit bills...


just watch the show at 1x and enjoy it.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

mwhip said:


> They still could have been. Her Dad could have had her made to try and produce a "hero" and then put her in the system and adopted her.


It's obvious that they were working with the adoptive dad or something. If he's going to trot out two people who are working for him, what advantage is it to trot out the real parents?

Add that to the fact that the adoptive mom said that the her husband had previously been trying to locate the real parents makes it unlikely that they were known pre-birth and had the cheerleader by design (at adoptive dad's behest).


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

LoadStar said:


> I too am having the most trouble with Nikki's plotline. I mean, it is fairly obvious she's going to be one of the "heroes," but right now, she doesn't exactly seem like a hero. I mean, she could be, but her alter-ego isn't exactly cute and cuddly.


I have said before and I will say it again...split personality disorder is not a super power.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Thanks again for the last 1 minute recap.
Both my HR20's and my R15 clipped the last minute.

So it definently was a NBC over run...
They started "early" by about 15 seconds
And then run long...

If there was any... can someone (in a spoiler tag), detail what was available in previews for next week..... I am a junkie that likes to get a taste of what is comming inext.


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## Hound (Sep 11, 2003)

The bioparents where so obviously plants by glasses dad. "Tell us if we can help you out anytime," and stuff like that. "That seemed to go well." And the handshake at the end. That was his way of snuffing the bio-parents urge that she has. Beyond him wanting to have control there has to be some reason why he doesn't want her to meet them.

So is Niki dead? If so that would satisfy the people who where worried about her being evil and being unable to be a hero.

However I'm wondering about the kid more and more.



Spoiler



There was a lot of hype when it first came off that a character (or more) was going to die. So she may truly be gone. They had killed Isaac at one point and changed their mind with what to do with his charater.


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## AJRitz (Mar 25, 2002)

I <3 endpadplus 

Another excellent episode. I'm pretty sure both that those were NOT Claire's biological parents and that Claire's Mom is completely clueless about the whole situation.

DL hinted pretty strongly at his ability to walk through walls when he assured his son, with a wink and a nod, that there was no jail that could hold him and answered when asked how he got out of prison, "I walked out." Strangling Nikki from the inside was pretty damned cool. But I'm guessing she's not gone for good. Somehow, I get the feeling that he's, at best, killed one of her personae.

Hiro continues to provide the comic relief.

This show always ends leaving me wanting more.


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

Hound said:


> So is Niki dead?


This is what I'm wondering too. If I recall correctly, the voice-over at the end was saying the word 'perish' as her body was shown on the screen. I first took this to mean she is dead but I'm not sure.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

mwhip said:


> I have said before and I will say it again...split personality disorder is not a super power.


Yes, but it certainly seems that when her alternate personality takes over, it also gives her super powers... I mean, did you see her whip her husband across the room and into the wall? And clearly she has enough speed/strength/whatever to take out multiple groups of mobsters, any of which could kick Nikki's butt without breaking a sweat.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

ebonovic said:


> Thanks again for the last 1 minute recap.
> Both my HR20's and my R15 clipped the last minute.


Ever hear of soft padding?; oh wait... never mind.



(I have everything recording 2 minutes early through 5 minutes later and haven't once experienced a cutoff on anything except those shows damaged by earlier over-running sports coverage; it's really the only way to record network shows these days since you can't trust them to not play these stupid games with stretching shows to fit in more commercials.)


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## Hound (Sep 11, 2003)

Next Week



Spoiler



You see Niki laying dead, Flash of someone with two dark spots on their shoulder, maybe Nathan?

DL and Micha meet Hiro and Friend in the middle of a desert and a car is on fire. Hiro looks like hes about to stop time.

Nathan says to Peter - What if people find out about us? Also a flash through the sky that looks like Nathan flying.

A flash of a picture that is not very clear what the picture is.

Another flash of the S symbol on the painting of Niki. That painting had blood across its face.

Peter running around excited about something or another.

It was a very omnimious flash sequence, and fast.

A flash of Micha staring at something. There is a reflection in his eyes I want to pause and go back and see.



Forgot one



Spoiler



Cheerleaders brother find out she heals instantly and she tells him that they can not tell anyone.


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

Zevida said:


> A few comments:
> 
> Someone mentioned early on that Eden might be one of the bad guys and it looks like that was a good call. (Great name, too. Appropriate.) - edited to give credit to mwhip who beat me by a hair in posting his own props


Well, I'd like to toot my own horn on this one:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4441072&&#post4441072

I will say that mwhip was more precise on whom she was working for though...


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## lordargent (Nov 12, 2002)

alansh said:


> Looks like it ran over a bit -- better pad it.
> 
> Eden showed up at Issac's. He asked her who she was, and she said "I'm an admirer of your work. May I come in?"
> 
> It then cut to Niki (or her alter ego -- the shoulder is covered so we can't see if the tattoo is there) still lying on the floor. Mohinder does narration: "Evolution is an imperfect and often violent process. Morality loses its meaning. The question of good and evil reduced to one simple choice: survive or perish."


Thanks, that's what I came here looking for.

/can't believe networks still screw up timings like this


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## Hound (Sep 11, 2003)

They had a 20 hour long commercial for Friday Night Lights which seemed to push back the ending. I had to dart out the door at full speed to make it to work.


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

mwhip said:


> I have said before and I will say it again...split personality disorder is not a super power.


no-but super strength is. and only one personality has it.


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## Hound (Sep 11, 2003)

She smacked him across the room, into a closet/dresser thing which shattered when he hit it with one thwack of a suitcase. I say superstrenght, considering shes RIPPING people apart.

Now when Hiro and co where in the potty, there was snarly growling noises made outside as people where ripped apart. I had wondered about that considering the bathroom door is cracked almost in half and blood is seeping through it.


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

I like that Nikki was unphased by D.L.'s superpower. "So this is how you got out of jail" -- Very matter of fact. She knows she's got power so she isn't surprised by anyone else with them too I suppose.

I want a soundtrack of the music from this. Some of it still gives me chills. The scene with the Eden saying goodbye to Mohinder...it's so soothing...like New Age music. It actually reminds me of some of the music from 1984's "Dune" by Toto.

*Edit* Just did a Yahoo Search on "Wendy Melvoin and Lisa Coleman," the composers of the music for this show. I don't know why I didn't realize it, but they're "Wendy & Lisa!" I still remember Prince introducing them at the Oscars or Grammys or something like that back in the late 80's. "This is Wendy, and this is Lisa." heh heh. I digress.

So who's "the voice of Shenkar???"


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## WinBear (Aug 24, 2000)

Another awesome episode, but we're left hanging on what happened to the cop after collapsing at the convenience store last week.

Oh, I think they should get Kari Matchett from Invasion to play Claire's real bio-mom. The one in this episode was almost suitable, but I keep seeing Mariel in Claire.


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## Uncle Briggs (Sep 11, 2004)

dswallow said:


> Ever hear of soft padding?; oh wait... never mind.
> 
> 
> 
> (I have everything recording 2 minutes early through 5 minutes later and haven't once experienced a cutoff on anything except those shows damaged by earlier over-running sports coverage; it's really the only way to record network shows these days since you can't trust them to not play these stupid games with stretching shows to fit in more commercials.)


My favorite shows, Heros, Lost and BSG always get padded on both ends.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Until I see her rip people apart I am diagnosing her with split personality disorder.


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

mwhip said:


> Until I see her rip people apart I am diagnosing her with split personality disorder.


Thank god you don't write TV shows!


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

So what's the likelihood of a genetic mutation that both your parents have leads to you having a similar genetic trait?

(I don't mean in real life; I mean in the minds of these writers. )


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## Hound (Sep 11, 2003)

So he can rip walkthrough walls apart while killing people?


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

atrac said:


> *Edit* Just did a Yahoo Search on "Wendy Melvoin and Lisa Coleman," the composers of the music for this show. I don't know why I didn't realize it, but they're "Wendy & Lisa!" I still remember Prince introducing them at the Oscars or Grammys or something like that back in the late 80's. "This is Wendy, and this is Lisa." heh heh. I digress.
> 
> So who's "the voice of Shenkar???"


Wendy and Lisa have been doing the music for Tim Kring's other show, Corssing Jordan, for several years now.
Shenkar? You got me?

Nikki obviously has super strength in her "bad" persona and it's been hinted at for a while now.

The question is, is Nikki dead or just "Bad Nikki"?


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## bpurcell (Mar 16, 2005)

atrac said:


> *Edit* Just did a Yahoo Search on "Wendy Melvoin and Lisa Coleman," the composers of the music for this show. I don't know why I didn't realize it, but they're "Wendy & Lisa!" I still remember Prince introducing them at the Oscars or Grammys or something like that back in the late 80's. "This is Wendy, and this is Lisa." heh heh. I digress.


Wendy & Lisa were with Prince in the early to mid 80's. IIRC, they were long gone by the late 80's. I can still remember their seductive banter at the beginning of one of his songs on the Purple Rain album:

"Wendy"

"Yes, Lisa"

"Is the water warm enough"

"Yes, Lisa"

"Shall we begin?"

"Yes, Lisa"

Also there's a song on that same album called Darling Nikki about a seduction woman. Coincidence? Probably.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

I can't believe there is a debate on whether the biological parents were real or not... so obviously fake... 

show is cool.

So, all these powers came on at the same time? It seems like it, but I wonder how long Nathan has known he could fly, cuz he does it with such proficiency. It seems like when you discover the power, you need some time to learn it, but nathan seems like he's been doing it for a while.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Very good episode, but for the first time really I could easily telegraph most things.

1. That Nikki stole the 2 million
2. That Eden worked for Claire's dad
3. That Claire's bioparents weren't.

Those were really easy, I knew each of them the moment they were mentioned.

But besides that, I liked it, and this time they got the poker cheating right 

Another thing. As noted in previous threads, people thought Eden works for Claire's dad, and they were right. But people are saying, see we knew she was evil....We don't know she or Claire's dad are evil. I think it's something we are supposed to believe, but i'm not convinced.

Also. What is to be made of the fact that now we have 2 more super powered people with a previous relationship, Nikki and D.L. We had the Petrelli brothers. We had maybe Isaac who Peter was caring for his girlfriend's dad.

And then, you have what seems like random people. An L.A. cop, a Texas cheerleader, a Japanese guy...

Interesting.

-smak-


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Thank GOD they got rid of the annoying Surface narrator! :up: :up: :up: :up:


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I'm hoping Nikki's got at least one life left. I kinda liked looking at Ali Larter.


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## Warren (Oct 18, 2001)

JETarpon said:


> Thank GOD they got rid of the annoying Surface narrator! :up: :up: :up: :up:


wait what?


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

mwhip said:


> Until I see her rip people apart I am diagnosing her with split personality disorder.


I think it is blatantly obvious at this point that Nikki does have a split personality disorder, with one of her personalities being the "normal" Nikki and the other personality is evil Nikki. Evil Nikki knows about and uses the superpowers - apparently hulk-like strength. Normal Nikki prefers to remain oblivious. It sounds like what happened is that Nikki couldn't handle the super powers as they began to develop and so her core self split in two, one to handle the super powers and the other to continue living normal.

Or something


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## ruexp67 (Jan 16, 2002)

I believe Nikki is still alive, and will become one of the "bad guys."

I want to see Peter's reaction to (my assumption) Isaac getting kidnapped. That is obviously what Eden was there to do.

I also liked the conversation with the mom and Claire about her childhood "illness." That was obvously a cover story told by the dad to keep the mom in line. Clever to just slip it in like that.


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## mrpope (Jan 13, 2006)

crowfan said:


> The ep got cut off right when the little girl with the short hair went to Issac's place. What happened after he opened the door?


that's exactly where mine cut off.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

katbug said:


> k, gonna post in the thread since it's still fairly new, but will duck out before it gets too long...just wanted to ask how people already knew about DL's ability to walk through walls before this? Wasn't last week his first appearance (where he didn't do much)?
> 
> P.S. Mine got cut off early too, just as he opened the door and she started to introduce herself. Thanks for the conclusion! ;0)


I thought we got your posting fears out in the other thread 

I think it cut off for all of us..the NBC top of the hour bug was already on screen so it wasn't a tivo error per se. It was truly 10:00 and it should have been over.

hiro always looks like he's forcing a fart...wish they would change that


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

dswallow said:


> This show probably costs someone a few million dollars per episode to make, right?
> 
> Can't they afford to even borrow 8 or 10 *different* $100 bills rather than making copies of one bill to use for the top of each stack? Come on... I know they pay people good money for watching over these little details. Why don't we ever hear of someone being fired for doing a poor job at it?
> 
> Well, unless they're supposed to be counterfeit bills...


I haven't looked up ad rates (assuming futon still posts them) but wow, it really costs millions per ep ? I just never thought about it.

another angle as far as the money goes..i was always of the understanding that real money could not legally be reproduced at its correct size. You may blow up or shrink down a real bill but not the same size. I may be wrong. I dont recall the money in this ep but from your post assume it was just a bad fake copied 10 times. So they appear to have met with the letter of the law. But like you said, one of the producers probably had real money on his person and should have ponied up. (or raided petty cash)

--------------------
I think it's weird how all these seemingly unrelated people seem to be working together and somehow are on collsion courses. It's almost like......nope, wont do it.


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## crowfan (Dec 27, 2003)

I would love to pad, but alas, my POS Cablevision DVR doesn't really allow padding. Correction: it SAYS it allows padding, but when you actually pad the show, it just ignores you and records from 9-10 without any padding.  Once the price of the S3 comes down, this should no longer be a problem.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

atrac said:


> So who's "the voice of Shenkar???"


No clue. But every time I see her referenced in the opening credits, I wonder if she's related to the Face of Bo from Dr. Who.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

What?! No endless discussion about how bad Hiro was at cheating at poker?


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

smak said:


> But besides that, I liked it, and this time they got the poker cheating right


I loved this as well.

I assume that the guy they cheated explained to them how to do it. Of course when they showed it Hiro was lucky in that the one guy not in on it, and not dealing, hadn't picked up any of his cards. I'm still unclear as to why you wouldn't just wait for the deal to happen and the dealer to put the deck down then stop time and take what you need right from the deck.

But that's just me.


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## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

I hope Niki is/stays dead. She is the one character on this show I can't stand.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

SeanC said:


> I loved this as well.
> 
> I assume that the guy they cheated explained to them how to do it. Of course when they showed it Hiro was lucky in that the one guy not in on it, and not dealing, hadn't picked up any of his cards. I'm still unclear as to why you wouldn't just wait for the deal to happen and the dealer to put the deck down then stop time and take what you need right from the deck.
> 
> But that's just me.


I still don't get why you wouldn't just look at everyone else's cards, but not actually change them. Makes for a much more believable cheat than getting straights and full houses all the time.


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## kdelande (Dec 17, 2001)

For the first time, my DirecTiVo failed me -- said that it didn't record this ep. b/c the same one was in the NP list or the 28 day rule. Uh, I think not... 

Bad, bad TiVo...no dinner for you tonight...

I'll grab it from SciFi though, thanks for the mention of that from some of you...

KD


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

MickeS said:


> I still don't get why you wouldn't just look at everyone else's cards, but not actually change them. Makes for a much more believable cheat than getting straights and full houses all the time.


How would that work though since it is not Hiro playing? His friend is the one playing so how would Hiro tell him what the other cards were without stopping time for everyone else but the 2 of them, which he has not shown he is able to do?


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

kurtangle said:


> my directivo messed up on this episode for the first time ever
> 
> it did not record Heroes saying that there was an episode of same title within last 24 hrs  :down:


My Series 1 standalone did this as well. Will catch the rerun on Sci-fi


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## jpwoof (May 19, 2004)

My episode got cut off too. Try watching the episode online at nbc.com.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

SeanC said:


> I loved this as well.
> 
> I assume that the guy they cheated explained to them how to do it. Of course when they showed it Hiro was lucky in that the one guy not in on it, and not dealing, hadn't picked up any of his cards. I'm still unclear as to why you wouldn't just wait for the deal to happen and the dealer to put the deck down then stop time and take what you need right from the deck.
> 
> But that's just me.


You're assuming that the other players aren't hack amateurs who would look at their cards before it was their turn to act.

I don't get how Hiro managed to put the card in the exact same spot in the air. That was weird.

I like people who were proud of themselves for figuring out Nikki stole the 2 mil in this episode when many of us figured it out a while back.

I think it would be very cool if Nikki is dead and the whole purpose of her character was to introduce DL.


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

dimented said:


> How would that work though since it is not Hiro playing? His friend is the one playing so how would Hiro tell him what the other cards were without stopping time for everyone else but the 2 of them, which he has not shown he is able to do?


Here we go. Another six page thread about the best way to cheat at poker.


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## jschuman (Feb 20, 2001)

I think it's possible that *DL* is the good guy hero and will join forces with the others at some point (perhaps with Mica). In this scenario Nikki is part of the Legion of Doom.


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

jking said:


> Here we go. Another six page thread about the best way to cheat at poker.


Not what I was getting at at all. More pointing out what Hiro can and cannot seem to do with his abilites. Does that fit the thread better?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Uh... HELLO!? If Nikki is alive, she's alive as the good nikki. The bad nikki, with a tatoo and shirt open on the right shoulder, is the one pictured in the precog's painting as dead, and in the last shot of her, we see the shirt open on the left shoulder with no tattoo.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

dswallow said:


> Ever hear of soft padding?; oh wait... never mind.


 Yep.... wish it would get added...


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

jking said:


> Here we go. Another six page thread about the best way to cheat at poker.


It's apparently a topic some people have thought about a LOT.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

SeanC said:


> I'm still unclear as to why you wouldn't just wait for the deal to happen and the dealer to put the deck down then stop time and take what you need right from the deck.
> 
> But that's just me.


Because you forgot that this is a fictional TV show about people with super powers. Hiro stopping cards in mid air makes for a cool looking visual effect, both with the cards hanging there when he stops them and then once again when he puts different cards back in their place.


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

jschuman said:


> I think it's possible that *DL* is the good guy hero and will join forces with the others at some point (perhaps with Mica). In this scenario Nikki is part of the Legion of Doom.


Forgive me, I'm not a big comic person, other than the mainstream, more popular ones. Has there ever been a hero who has to learn to control their bad urges and harness their power for good? I think this is where Nikki is headed, not that she is/will be a villian, but that once she learns to control the powers that her bad self has, she will be able to use them for good.


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## jschuman (Feb 20, 2001)

jking said:


> Forgive me, I'm not a big comic person, other than the mainstream, more popular ones. Has there ever been a hero who has to learn to control their bad urges and harness their power for good? I think this is where Nikki is headed, not that she is/will be a villian, but that once she learns to control the powers that her bad self has, she will be able to use them for good.


Sure that's possible. Anything's possible at this point, I'm just guessing.


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

I _believe_ that Shenkar is an Indian(?) singer. I think he has sung on tracks with Peter Gabriel. He doesn't "sing" in the American sense of the word, but kind of does that vocal wailing that you hear in a lot of Indian music.

I've been Googling but can't find much and have to get some work done.

Carry on.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

ScottE22 said:


> I _believe_ that Shenkar is an Indian(?) singer. I think he has sung on tracks with Peter Gabriel. He doesn't "sing" in the American sense of the word, but kind of does that vocal wailing that you hear in a lot of Indian music.
> 
> I've been Googling but can't find much and have to get some work done.
> 
> Carry on.


Ravi Shankar

and he has a daughter, Nora Jones.


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## mulscully (May 31, 2003)

I thought it was cool when Hiro was moving the cards around and threw the last 2 cards into the air over the table and they stuck there....


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## Hound (Sep 11, 2003)

If good Niki is alive, maybe we will see some super moves or something with that huge strenght.

Her husband seemed to assume she was evil and had framed him and murdered everyone very easily. You'd think that what she had discussed with him and everything els,e he'd hear her out. Even if he dosent, I bet the kid knows that she didn't do it and he'll convince DL of the split Niki's somehow.

However, Super Strenght would be useful in a Hero type of way.

I also still say that the cheerleader isen't sensing much pain. If you pick up a hot pan, even if you heal instantly the pain has to cause you to scream and release. Shes just not even feeling the pain (hence the rib in ep one)


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## ihatecable (Apr 16, 2003)

mwhip said:


> I have said before and I will say it again...split personality disorder is not a super power.





spikedavis said:


> no-but super strength is. and only one personality has it.


Its called PMS. If you where married youd know all about it and more importantly when to get out of the room.


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

dswallow said:


> (I have everything recording 2 minutes early through 5 minutes later and haven't once experienced a cutoff on anything except those shows damaged by earlier over-running sports coverage; it's really the only way to record network shows these days since you can't trust them to not play these stupid games with stretching shows to fit in more commercials.)


Looking at this from a glass-is-half-full perspective, if NBC is padding the show's running time to fit in more commercials, at least that means that it's doing well in the ratings.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

srs5694 said:


> Looking at this from a glass-is-half-full perspective, if NBC is padding the show's running time to fit in more commercials, at least that means that it's doing well in the ratings.


To me it seemed like a dirty trick to get us to watch whatever was on after heroes. In this case friday night vomit. I mean lights.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

For the people that think Nikki's character the least interesting, I think considering the possibility that she is the bad guy of the show might help. Nobody ever said that she will clearly be one of the heroes.

As for Claire's supposed bioparents...I thought it was obvious that they were going to be fake. But then when she actually met them, the mother does look an awful lot like Claire. (Yeah, I know they're just actors, but if they put that much effort into picking an actress that looks like the actress that plays Claire, maybe there was a reason for it.) I think, considering the dad's line of work (whether good or evil) maybe he had Claire geneticly engineered and found a surrogate to carry the baby so he could set up a believable story for his wife. So it could be that these bioparents have been on the payroll the whole time but he just didn't want their identities to come out before because he wanted to see if baby Claire could overcome whatever illness she had on her own...like a test of her powers.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

One thing bothered me about Claire last night. She grabbed the pan of cupcakes out of the oven without mitts or anything else. Yes, she heals her self. But it's so sloppy for her to do that around someone like her mother. To me, it seemed that the writers just wanted a scene to show off her power wtihout it really being even remotely integral to the plot.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Anyone got any theories on why Hiro could not freeze time when Nikki was in the room?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jking said:


> Forgive me, I'm not a big comic person, other than the mainstream, more popular ones. Has there ever been a hero who has to learn to control their bad urges and harness their power for good? I think this is where Nikki is headed, not that she is/will be a villian, but that once she learns to control the powers that her bad self has, she will be able to use them for good.


Oh yeah, all the time.

The classic example is the Marvel comic Thunderbolts, which is about a group of villains who changed their costumed identities and posed as superheroes. Originally, it was an evil plot (although not all of them were in on it), but the good bad guys won, and since then, it's been a super-hero team comprised of reformed villains.

There's an interesting twist about to happen in conjunction with the Civil War event. The pro-government side has recruited a bunch of non-reformed villains, some of the worst in the Marvel universe, implanted chips in their heads or something, and are going to force them to work for the government as the New Thunderbolts. That should be interesting, especially since the book is being written by Warren Ellis, who has one of the nastiest minds in comics.


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## Jericho Dog (Feb 10, 2006)

ihatecable said:


> Its called PMS. If you where married youd know all about it and more importantly when to get out of the room.


Which is, of course, a superpower in and of itself.
"My Hubby sense is tingling...." RUN!


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

mwhip said:


> Anyone got any theories on why Hiro could not freeze time when Nikki was in the room?


Maybe his powers aren't advanced enough to freeze what he can't see. Since she was on the other side of the door, he had nothing to focus on and therefore couldn't freeze.


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

It looks like we got an answer the dozen or so posts speculating on the Hiro of the present's command of the English language last week. He didn't learn to speak English in a matter of hours, but his friend taught him how to saw what he wanted over the telephone. Previously he had left a message in Japanese but had asked his friend to tell him how to say what he wanted to say. As soon as someone started speaking at the other end he had to get his friend involved to translate.


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## Jericho Dog (Feb 10, 2006)

mwhip said:


> Anyone got any theories on why Hiro could not freeze time when Nikki was in the room?


He didn't seem concerned about it at the time.
I think they were in the middle of a conversation and he just didn't try hard enough.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

At the time I was thinking he was all "time stopped" out. That would be appropriate for his character, to have used up all his time hormones for cheating and then not be able to use them to save people.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

mwhip said:


> Anyone got any theories on why Hiro could not freeze time when Nikki was in the room?


He doesn't seem to be able to do it on purpose when under stress.


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## Jericho Dog (Feb 10, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> He doesn't seem to be able to do it on purpose when under stress.


Although, seeing a nuclear explosion coming your way would be pretty stressful.....


----------



## Hound (Sep 11, 2003)

I think Hiro couldn't concentrate cuz he was to scared and I think he was tired as well. Hes using his power over and over and over and over annk it failed him when he needed it the most.

I still wanna know whats up witht he roaring snarling noises.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Had no problem with the recording on my HR20 but then I pad 2 minutes on the show.

Re: The cop and Claire

I like the theory someone brought up a week or so ago. That the cop is not actually in our timeline but 10 years or so earlier. I think the little girl he saved was actually Claire and her parents are actually dead.
Sounds cool anyway.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

What was with the 2nd pair of glasses on daddy-o? Was that supposed to be important somehow or just a little reminder?


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Hound said:


> I still wanna know whats up witht he roaring snarling noises.


Maybe she turns into a werewolf?


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## Hound (Sep 11, 2003)

Maybe his power is horn rimmed glasses.

Cop is in our timeline.


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## Ghost_Dog1 (Apr 25, 2006)

Maybe Shenkar is a misspelling of Shankar?


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## stiffi (Jun 14, 2006)

mwhip said:


> Anyone got any theories on why Hiro could not freeze time when Nikki was in the room?


Come on people! It's been mentioned, you just have to put it together. Nikki might be Sylar, or at least have the same sinister powers. If that's the case, she might be able to stop the Heroes powers, just like the dude in the bar with the Cop.


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## brott (Feb 23, 2001)

bonscott87 said:


> Had no problem with the recording on my HR20 but then I pad 2 minutes on the show.
> 
> Re: The cop and Claire
> 
> ...


Something like that makes more sense. It's always bothered me that "Dad" went out and met the Cop only to be back home later in what appeared to be the same day. The Cop's in LA and the "Dad" is in Texas. If the Cop is a prequel to everyone else, then his storyline really does start to make sense.


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

mwhip said:


> Maybe she turns into a werewolf?


Might not be too far off. When DL was looking through the comic books with Micah there was another issue of 9th Wonders! at the bottom of the stack. At the time ( about 28 mins in to the episode ) I was wondering who that was, the only clue being blonde hair.

I think we got a peek at what Nikki's alter ego looks like:










​
That sure looks like something that could rip people apart.


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

stiffi said:


> Come on people! It's been mentioned, you just have to put it together. Nikki might be Sylar, or at least have the same sinister powers. If that's the case, she might be able to stop the Heroes powers, just like the dude in the bar with the Cop.


If so then she was sure not able to stop her husban's powers was she?


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

mwhip said:


> Ravi Shankar
> 
> and he has a daughter, Nora Jones.


That's the guy! I was Googling for "Shenkar" because that's the way everyone was spelling it in this thread and I didn't have the opening credits to reference for spelling.

Didn't know Norah Jones was his daughter - very interesting trivia.


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

Idearat said:


> It looks like we got an answer the dozen or so posts speculating on the Hiro of the present's command of the English language last week. He didn't learn to speak English in a matter of hours, but his friend taught him how to saw what he wanted over the telephone. Previously he had left a message in Japanese but had asked his friend to tell him how to say what he wanted to say. As soon as someone started speaking at the other end he had to get his friend involved to translate.


Yeah, but he had a pretty good conversation with Flying Man at the diner, and his friend was nowhere around at the time.


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

stiffi said:


> Come on people! It's been mentioned, you just have to put it together. Nikki might be Sylar, or at least have the same sinister powers. If that's the case, she might be able to stop the Heroes powers, just like the dude in the bar with the Cop.


I didn't think they guy at the bar was able to stop everyone's powers, it's just that his power is manipulating the brain/mind in some way, and since the cop's powers deal with the brain/mind, he was able to block him. We've seen no evidence that he can stop all powers, or else he would have been able to stop the Flying Man from taking off.

I thought it was funny when the Pixie was talking to Claire Dad and mentioned what she'd heard about Hiro being able to stop time or whatever and the Dad was like "Cool". It made me think that he at least admires the powers and maybe doesn't think of everyone as just lab rats.


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## Cboath (Jun 22, 2004)

ScottE22 said:


> That's the guy! I was Googling for "Shenkar" because that's the way everyone was spelling it in this thread and I didn't have the opening credits to reference for spelling.
> 
> Didn't know Norah Jones was his daughter - very interesting trivia.


Who is he? Why is Ravi mentioned all the time? I think I remember seeing his name in the credits, but the picture on his site didn't ring a bell.

As far as Hiro not being able to freeze time.... If I remember right, he started to (did the face scrunch thing) and his friend hit him in the arm and that broke his concentration. Then they started talking.


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## Cboath (Jun 22, 2004)

Also, I think it was mentioned in a previous thread, but does anyone thing that pixie girl can manipulate people? Glasses dude made a comment about knowing she could persuade a little harder or something. Any time the guy says he is giving up and going home, all she had to do before was say "Don't go" and he would be like "ok". Maybe she just let him go this time.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Cboath said:


> Also, I think it was mentioned in a previous thread, but does anyone thing that pixie girl can manipulate people? Glasses dude made a comment about knowing she could persuade a little harder or something. Any time the guy says he is giving up and going home, all she had to do before was say "Don't go" and he would be like "ok". Maybe she just let him go this time.


That was speculation way back because I found it odd that every time Mohinder said he did not want to do something she would look at him and say "but don't you think you should look?" or something to that effect and he would always do it.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4487448&highlight=mohinder#post4487448


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## Cboath (Jun 22, 2004)

mwhip said:


> That was speculation way back because I found it odd that every time Mohinder said he did not want to do something she would look at him and say "but don't you think you should look?" or something to that effect and he would always do it.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4487448&highlight=mohinder#post4487448


In that case, I agree with you!!


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## jschuman (Feb 20, 2001)

I love the show, but I find the Mohinder plotline super boring - and hate, hate, hate the voice-overs from his character.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Cboath said:


> Also, I think it was mentioned in a previous thread, but does anyone thing that pixie girl can manipulate people? Glasses dude made a comment about knowing she could persuade a little harder or something. Any time the guy says he is giving up and going home, all she had to do before was say "Don't go" and he would be like "ok". Maybe she just let him go this time.


I don't buy it... she didn't do anything differently and she clearly wanted him to stay, as did glasses guy.


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## LordFett (May 6, 2005)

mwhip said:


> Anyone got any theories on why Hiro could not freeze time when Nikki was in the room?


Panic was my guess. Plus as mentioned previously he was tired from all the time stop cheating.

Did anyone notice the book sized/shaped present that was left for Claire?


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## Cboath (Jun 22, 2004)

TAsunder said:


> I don't buy it... she didn't do anything differently and she clearly wanted him to stay, as did glasses guy.


My thought was that she is genuinely interested in him, so she kissed him, and if he came back it would be for her and not because she manipulated him into it.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

smak said:


> ...
> Another thing. As noted in previous threads, people thought Eden works for Claire's dad, and they were right. But people are saying, see we knew she was evil....We don't know she or Claire's dad are evil. I think it's something we are supposed to believe, but i'm not convinced.
> ...


That's the thing that I really like about this show. The characters are very multidimensional and good and evil aren't clear-clut in some cases.

Nikki... All this time, I thought she was going to be one of the heroes, but she's not. At least, I certainly hope she's not. Her superstrength alter-ego is very much a villain. No two ways about it. Now, whether or not Nikki is still alive and her evil doppleganger died is another thing. But that doppleganger is definitely NOT a good guy. Actually, I liked DL by the end of the eppy. Not a lot, and he's definitely not a good guy (planning a bank robbery pretty much means you're not good), but he's not the killer we were led to believe.

Claire's dad... I can see where he's not exactly one of the good guys, but not necessarily one of the bad guys either. Or at least not one of the _very_ bad guys. All we know is that he's kidnapped people, but then released them within a day or so with their memories wiped. It's not exactly a noble gesture, but not pure evil either. He did wipe that one kid's mind, but that kid was a habitual rapist. A really evil guy would've probably killed the kid. Also, he seemed to show concern over Claire when he heard the "Save the Cheerleader" line. So I don't believe he's a good enough character to be a hero, but it's still up in the air if he's bad enough to be a real villain.

Actually, the only real villains we've seen so far are Nikki's alter-ego and Sylas.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

bobcarn said:


> Nikki... All this time, I thought she was going to be one of the heroes, but she's not. At least, I certainly hope she's not. Her superstrength alter-ego is very much a villain. No two ways about it. Now, whether or not Nikki is still alive and her evil doppleganger died is another thing. But that doppleganger is definitely NOT a good guy.


But look who she goes after. The most positive interpretation is that she is a VERY nasty vigilante.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Hound said:


> Cop is in our timeline.


Do you have proof? I don't think there's evidence that has shown one way or another. And, if fact, none of our "Heroes" have been seen to interact with the cop while everyone else has seemed to cross paths through one connection or another. Issack doesn't have a picture of the cop in any of his paintings either so it seems like the cop doesn't have any role in saving the cheerleader and/or saving the world.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But look who she goes after. The most positive interpretation is that she is a VERY nasty vigilante.


Not really. Vigilantes at least work with the premise that they're going after bad guys. Nikki's *only* motivation was to get rid of witnesses.

I can't quite put together why she went after the poker party. I know all of the pieces are there, but I have a brainfart or something.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

unicorngoddess said:


> Do you have proof? I don't think there's evidence that has shown one way or another. And, if fact, none of our "Heroes" have been seen to interact with the cop while everyone else has seemed to cross paths through one connection or another. Issack doesn't have a picture of the cop in any of his paintings either so it seems like the cop doesn't have any role in saving the cheerleader and/or saving the world.


That's true. It could very well be that the cop's storyline happens in the future a little bit. I tend to think it's the current timeline, but then again, it's possible it's a short jump to the future. When Hiro went to the future, it wasn't known until the very end (when the bomb went off) that he was in the future.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

bobcarn said:


> Not really. Vigilantes at least work with the premise that they're going after bad guys.


I will buy that argument whole-heartedly (personally, I'm on the fence about Nikki so far) when she goes after somebody who is NOT a bad guy.


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## bobbi (Mar 21, 2002)

bobcarn said:


> Nikki... All this time, I thought she was going to be one of the heroes, but she's not. At least, I certainly hope she's not. Her superstrength alter-ego is very much a villain. No two ways about it. Now, whether or not Nikki is still alive and her evil doppleganger died is another thing. But that doppleganger is definitely NOT a good guy. Actually, I liked DL by the end of the eppy. Not a lot, and he's definitely not a good guy (planning a bank robbery pretty much means you're not good), but he's not the killer we were led to believe.


I was thinking that good Niki died and evil Niki lived, since she's the stronger one?

(weee....delurking...)


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I will buy that argument whole-heartedly (personally, I'm on the fence about Nikki so far) when she goes after somebody who is NOT a bad guy.


Yeah, but it's really hard (practically impossible) to justify ripping people into pieces. She pretty much went to the point where she's not even an _antihero_.



bobbi said:


> I was thinking that good Niki died and evil Niki lived, since she's the stronger one?
> 
> (weee....delurking...)


But then again, the evil Nikki was in control when she "died".


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

bobcarn said:


> Not really. Vigilantes at least work with the premise that they're going after bad guys. Nikki's *only* motivation was to get rid of witnesses.
> 
> I can't quite put together why she went after the poker party. I know all of the pieces are there, but I have a brainfart or something.


Did you watch the episode? One of the guys at the poker game was the fence that DL and Nikki were going to see. That's why DL took her to that place to meet that person, because he was the fence, the only surviving person who knew that Nikki's alter ego was the one who did the bank job with DL's old crew.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

bobcarn said:


> I can't quite put together why she went after the poker party. I know all of the pieces are there, but I have a brainfart or something.


The guys at the poker party were DL's witnesses that he was set up. When he told Nikki about this, her alter ego figured out that she had to shut up those witnesses so she wasn't found out.


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## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

bobcarn said:


> That's the thing that I really like about this show. The characters are very multidimensional and good and evil aren't clear-clut in some cases.


That's why I hate when the voice-over guy always refers to "the face of evil" or "pure evil" when referring to Claire's father. We haven't seen him do a single evil thing yet.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I always watch TV with the closed captioning on and found it interesting that whenever Claire's dad speaks, the captioning doesn't credit the voice to "Dad" or "Mr. Bennett" but rather to "H. R. G." which means that, at least at this point, his character is being referred to as Horn-Rimmed Glasses.

Enjoyed this episode. Can't wait for next week. By far the best new show of the season.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

GDG76 said:


> That's why I hate when the voice-over guy always refers to "the face of evil" or "pure evil" when referring to Claire's father. We haven't seen him do a single evil thing yet.


Well, he did try to kill the quarterback. Well, maybe not actually try to kill but he sure did scare the crap out of him. And even though we don't know what his motives are, I think they've shown that he's willing to do whatever it takes to serve his cause.


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

cheesesteak said:


> I'm hoping Nikki's got at least one life left. I kinda liked looking at Ali Larter.


Fate of Niki (note, only 1 K!):



Spoiler



Right on your TiVo, the description of next week's show.. there is mention of Niki being alive.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

scottykempf said:


> Did you watch the episode? One of the guys at the poker game was the fence that DL and Nikki were going to see. That's why DL took her to that place to meet that person, because he was the fence, the only surviving person who knew that Nikki's alter ego was the one who did the bank job with DL's old crew.


Of course I watched the episode. For some reason though (maybe the way I was thinking last night), I didn't realize that the people they went to see that were all ripped up were the same people that were at the poker party. With all of the blood and gore, and the camera not staying on the scene very long, I didn't make the connection.

It was late when I watched it. I had taken my evening meds. The cat was bothering me.

Other things too.


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:


> Well, he did try to kill the quarterback. Well, maybe not actually try to kill but he sure did scare the crap out of him. And even though we don't know what his motives are, I think they've shown that he's willing to do whatever it takes to serve his cause.


True, but if his cause is good then does that make him good? If you are willing to do anything it takes for a good cause, then are all your actions inheritantly good?

There are some fuzzy lines here. I think the best explanation so far from my feelings is that he is good but is willing to do some evil things to accomplish his good agenda. Again, just my take on his character so far.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

unicorngoddess said:


> Well, he did try to kill the quarterback. Well, maybe not actually try to kill but he sure did scare the crap out of him. And even though we don't know what his motives are, I think they've shown that he's willing to do whatever it takes to serve his cause.


Yeah, but in the face of what Nikki and Sylas have been doing, he's practically a saint.


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## Ghost_Dog1 (Apr 25, 2006)

I Don't think we've seen the last of Nikki or her demon. 

The Chance encounters thing is getting a little unbelievable. How many time can they "run into each other ?

I'm looking forward To Mr Bennets next visit to New York. 

As far as Eden's Persuasive ability. At First I thought Mr. Bennent meant she should Bang Suresh. But now the Idea that she may have a super persuasive ability is interesting. Little miss mind control? 


Speaking of Music what was the Chant playing, while Isaac reveal The Symbol in the Nikki painting.

I Hope NBC doesn't go overboard with the ad time. The amount of ads is already an issue with me. I tried to wait till 9:20 last night and chase play. (I could'n't wait  )

No I'm not going to watch Friday night lights!


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

unicorngoddess said:


> Well, he did try to kill the quarterback. Well, maybe not actually try to kill but he sure did scare the crap out of him. And even though we don't know what his motives are, I think they've shown that he's willing to do whatever it takes to serve his cause.


Well, the quarterback did try to rape his "daughter". Oh, and accidently killed her. Oh, and dumped her body in the river. Oh, and he raped a bunch of other high school girls.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

The chance encounteres aren't being played as chance. More like destiny or manipulation.

To quote the film Zero Effect...
There aren't GOOD guys and EVIL guys. It's all just a bunch of guys!


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

kdelande said:


> For the first time, my DirecTiVo failed me -- said that it didn't record this ep. b/c the same one was in the NP list or the 28 day rule. Uh, I think not...


may i make a general recommendation (to all). Once a week check history for the upcoming week. It is not foolproof as there are legitimate repeats and other reasons for a show not to record, but it definitely has saved my butt enough times that I make sure every sunday i check history for the week.


----------



## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

bobcarn said:


> Of course I watched the episode. For some reason though (maybe the way I was thinking last night), I didn't realize that the people they went to see that were all ripped up were the same people that were at the poker party. With all of the blood and gore, and the camera not staying on the scene very long, I didn't make the connection.
> 
> It was late when I watched it. I had taken my evening meds. The cat was bothering me.
> 
> Other things too.


Don't worry, I didn't make the connection either. Of course, I'd had a couple of drinks, so maybe that was it.


----------



## GadgetFreak (Jun 3, 2002)

Anyone think that Mica created his mom's alter-ego, perhaps as a way to protect her? He seems to know a lot about it, and when he told his Dad that Mom also had a secret he looked a little sheepish like he felt guilty.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

dimented said:


> True, but if his cause is good then does that make him good? If you are willing to do anything it takes for a good cause, then are all your actions inheritantly good?
> 
> There are some fuzzy lines here. I think the best explanation so far from my feelings is that he is good but is willing to do some evil things to accomplish his good agenda. Again, just my take on his character so far.


You know, I just finished reading the book Wicked and there was a real good line in there about good/evil.

Not an exact quote, but it went something like this, "It's not the people that claim to be evil that you should worry about. It's the people that claim to be good."


----------



## LordFett (May 6, 2005)

bobcarn said:


> I can't quite put together why she went after the poker party.


Because they knew who took DL's place on the 2 mil heist and would have given Nikki up. By taking them out she got rid of the witnesses.

Sorry for the smeek, I started writing right after this was posted but got busy at work.


----------



## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

OK people.. for some reason this is SO bugging me!

Here is the correct way to spell the various character's names (from IMDB):

Micah Sanders
Niki Sanders

(IMDB page may contain spoilers!)

No more Mica or Nikki, please! 

Oh, and HRG is actually credited as "Horned Rim Glasses".


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

choccy said:


> Niki Sanders


But that looks too much like Nike (pronounced like the shoe brand)

IMDB is far from being a reliable source anyway since its database is user created. Anyone know how the name is spelled in the CCs or the show credits?


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

bobbi said:


> I was thinking that good Niki died and evil Niki lived, since she's the stronger one?


Who knows, but the painting that Isaac made of the event showed evil Niki on the floor (the shoulder tattoo).


----------



## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

unicorngoddess said:


> You know, I just finished reading the book Wicked and there was a real good line in there about good/evil.
> 
> Not an exact quote, but it went something like this, "It's not the people that claim to be evil that you should worry about. It's the people that claim to be good."


Well, if someone comes out and says they're evil and they're going to do something bad to you, I'm going to worry about said someone. Silly, I know, but that's just me. 

So now we got to worry about evil people and REALLY worry about good people? No wonder I need meds!


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

brott said:


> Something like that makes more sense. It's always bothered me that "Dad" went out and met the Cop only to be back home later in what appeared to be the same day. The Cop's in LA and the "Dad" is in Texas. If the Cop is a prequel to everyone else, then his storyline really does start to make sense.


This was my theory, referenced here . I'm thrilled that people haven't immediately dismissed it, and that a few people actually seem to like it. Personally, I think it's pretty out-there but I'd love if it turned out to be true. I did, however, note something in this episode that may poke a pretty big hole in the theory: when Claire was talking with her mom near the end of the episode, and her mom mentioned testing her chromosomes, did mom say something along the lines of "when you were a baby?" I think she might have. This would be problematic, as it suggests that HRG and Claire's mom had already adopted Claire when she was much younger than the girl whose parents were killed.


----------



## Ghost_Dog1 (Apr 25, 2006)

Anyone have an idea of what the missing painting was?


----------



## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

LordFett said:


> Because they knew who took DL's place on the 2 mil heist and would have given Nikki up. By taking them out she got rid of the witnesses.


Uh huh. And then Evil Niki convinces Clueless Niki to get the $2 million -- while D.L. is _still in the house._

It's a good thing (in a manner of speaking) that Evil Niki is so darned lucky, because a criminal mastermind she ain't.


----------



## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

Ghost_Dog1 said:


> Anyone have an idea of what the missing painting was?


The burning train wreck?

They'd be able to find out where she lives by that.
After he painted it they saw it on a news report which had the location.

phox


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## jschuman (Feb 20, 2001)

phox_mulder said:


> The burning train wreck?
> 
> They'd be able to find out where she lives by that.
> After he painted it they saw it on a news report which had the location.
> ...


ooh, that's good. Now I _hope_ that is the missing painting.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Graymalkin said:


> Well, if someone comes out and says they're evil and they're going to do something bad to you, I'm going to worry about said someone. Silly, I know, but that's just me.
> 
> So now we got to worry about evil people and REALLY worry about good people? No wonder I need meds!


Nah, it's more like you need to worry about people that do bad things but claim they're for a good cause. Like previous post say, the QB did technically kill Claire. But would it then be right for HRG to kill QB for a good cause? People have been known to do some pretty messed up things in the name of good...but that doesn't mean they're a good person.


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## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

Ghost_Dog1 said:


> Anyone have an idea of what the missing painting was?


It probably just tells them where to find her - like you can read the school name on her uniform or something like that...


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

For those who like me missed the very end of the show, NBC has the latest episode for viewing on its website, and it's fortunately split up into 6 parts, so you can just watch the last part which was just a few minutes long. 

http://www.nbc.com/Video/rewind/full_episodes/?show=heroes


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

phox_mulder said:


> The burning train wreck?
> 
> They'd be able to find out where she lives by that.
> After he painted it they saw it on a news report which had the location.
> ...


yeah.. that's my guess. He painted it in the Pilot, and they compared it to the photo on the front page of the newspaper.


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## milo99 (Oct 14, 2002)

unicorngoddess said:


> But that looks too much like Nike (pronounced like the shoe brand)


well, ACTUALLY, Nike and Niki stem from the same word. In Greek, Nike (but pronounced Niki in Greek) is the word for victory, also the goddess of victory in ancient mythology. It's where the name Niki originally came from (before it became a shortened version Nicholas).

Nike the shoe company is named directly after Nike the godess of victory.

So they look alike because in reality, they should be one in the same


----------



## Ghost_Dog1 (Apr 25, 2006)

phox_mulder said:


> The burning train wreck?
> 
> They'd be able to find out where she lives by that.
> After he painted it they saw it on a news report which had the location.
> ...


I bet that's it !


----------



## milo99 (Oct 14, 2002)

i find it interesting that theres so much debate about whether Niki and others such as HRG are good or evil. In the narration, they made it a point, twice, to say that sometimes, its not about good or evil, but rather survival. Don't you all think that this means something? There's a lot of gray. I don't think these characters are all going to be easily put into a good or evil camp. Some will of course, but i think there will be several who are not so neatly categorized.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:


> But that looks too much like Nike (pronounced like the shoe brand)
> 
> IMDB is far from being a reliable source anyway since its database is user created. Anyone know how the name is spelled in the CCs or the show credits?


It has one "k" in the CCs also.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

The website spells it Niki. I would think they are correct. 
http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/bios/niki.shtml


----------



## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

So what it Micah's power going to be? He has to have one being the off spring of two heroes.


----------



## Ruth (Jul 31, 2001)

phox_mulder said:


> The burning train wreck?
> 
> They'd be able to find out where she lives by that.
> After he painted it they saw it on a news report which had the location.


Oooh, good call. I bet that's it.

Speaking of Claire, did anyone notice that at the beginning of the ep, when they had text on the screen with the characters' names, the one for Claire mentioned her mother by name? That made me wonder if maybe mom has some importance or connection to the plot that hasn't been developed yet. Everyone else who was named is a major character.

I am sick of Niki. I would be OK if she really were dead and the focus shifted to Micah and DL. Probably not gonna happen though.

Hiro's knowledge of English is a bit too inconsistent for me to swallow. Last week he had a whole nearly-fluent conversation in English in the diner, this week he is back to understanding nothing and needing a translator. It just seems a really weird continuity error for such a well-thought-out show.

I did think this week was a little more predictable than past shows have been. Even last week it was clear to me that it was Niki who set up DL, so this week's subplot on that wasn't too compelling to me. Still a great show though and I can't wait for next week.


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

The train wreck doesn't fit.


----------



## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

If the train wreck fits, you must acquit.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

milo99 said:


> well, ACTUALLY, Nike and Niki stem from the same word. In Greek, Nike (but pronounced Niki in Greek) is the word for victory, also the goddess of victory in ancient mythology. It's where the name Niki originally came from (before it became a shortened version Nicholas).
> 
> Nike the shoe company is named directly after Nike the godess of victory.
> 
> So they look alike because in reality, they should be one in the same


Wow, that's awesome. I totally didn't know that. I wonder if that gives new meaning to her character. Like, did they name her that on purpose to show that she will indeed be leading our Heroes into victory?


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

mwhip said:


> So what it Micah's power going to be? He has to have one being the off spring of two heroes.


What if his power is some kind of manifestation. Like someone mention that maybe he created Niki's alter ego to help protect them. What if he can somehow make something happen just by thinking about it?

(Yes, I watch LOST)


----------



## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

unicorngoddess said:


> But that looks too much like Nike (pronounced like the shoe brand)
> 
> IMDB is far from being a reliable source anyway since its database is user created. Anyone know how the name is spelled in the CCs or the show credits?


NIKI

(yes, I checked  )


----------



## milo99 (Oct 14, 2002)

unicorngoddess said:


> Wow, that's awesome. I totally didn't know that. I wonder if that gives new meaning to her character. Like, did they name her that on purpose to show that she will indeed be leading our Heroes into victory?


if the writers did that on purpose, i'd be seriously impressed. So in other words, i doubt it


----------



## ced6 (Jul 30, 2003)

Just a minor comment, I don't think that Hiro's use of English is inconsistent. IIRC, the conversation in the diner was pretty simple on the part of Hiro and the other character could tell he didn't speak English well, so he probably spoke slower than your average conversation. On the phone, people were speaking quickly to Hiro and he also couldn't view their body language to help clue him in on the meaning of words he didn't understand.

Kind of like how in French class, you can understand the tapes and videos where everyone's speaking simple sentences and slowly, but then when you hear actual French spoken you're lucky if you catch a few words.

Of course, this is all from memory, so I may be completely wrong


----------



## Ghost_Dog1 (Apr 25, 2006)

In Chapter 2 there is a painting of Claire and her Friend who Knows. Simone was taking it. Isaac took it back. This was in the "How am I supposed to paint the future" scene.

Could that be the missing 1?



The painting also appears at the end of chapter 4. When Isaac comes to from his Vision of Claire being chased. The Painting from chapter 2 is lined up with the others.

It has to be the Train Wreck. Or The Claire in the School hallway painting.


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

Finally the new graphic novel for this episode is online!


----------



## Cragmyre (Mar 8, 2004)

Since the events of cheerleader's demise looks to take place in the school stadium, I'm guessing the missing painting is of the high school or stadium...probably displaying its name. None of the events in the current paintings have taken place yet, though the train wreck has come and gone. If it were to be a comic book, the events would be closer together...again, just guessing


----------



## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

GadgetFreak said:


> Anyone think that Mica created his mom's alter-ego, perhaps as a way to protect her? He seems to know a lot about it, and when he told his Dad that Mom also had a secret he looked a little sheepish like he felt guilty.


He might have been talking about his mom's internet activity, which he probably figures his dad doesn't know about.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

3D said:


> He might have been talking about his mom's internet activity, which he probably figures his dad doesn't know about.


I don't think so... why would dad suddenly turn on Niki then? I think Micah has witnessed something she doesn't know about. Or was pretending to be asleep while she buried the dead people. Or found the money in the attic.


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

I was thinking that Mica has interacted with the alternate Mom enough times to know it's not the same person as the nice sweet slutty mom. But the scene where he was talking to Mom and mentioned the whole get packed thing he didnt seem to know one from the other.

the comic for this week is once again way too short. but it does answer some questions.


----------



## MrGreg (May 2, 2003)

If the missing painting is the train wreck, then will they find the wrong cheerleader (aka the one who took credit)?

Also, it's a good thing Claire has healing powers. Otherwise with as clumsy as she is she'd be dead already. (Hand in garbage disposal, football tackle, stick through brain, burnt hands, etc.)


----------



## dimented (May 21, 2003)

rkester said:


> Finally the new graphic novel for this episode is online!


Do you have a link? I can never seem to find it.


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Ghost_Dog1 said:


> In Chapter 2 there is a painting of Claire and her Friend who Knows. Simone was taking it. Isaac took it back. This was in the "How am I supposed to paint the future" scene.
> 
> Could that be the missing 1?
> 
> ...


----------



## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

here's the PDF version for episode 06:
http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/novels/downloads/Heroes_novel_006.pdf

And the online interactive version:
http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/novels/novel_006.shtml


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## Ghost_Dog1 (Apr 25, 2006)

cherry ghost said:


>


What do you think? Is that the Clue? Wildcats pride? I can never see what Claires sweater says. But Maybe if they look close at the painting it shows?


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Hmm. Going back to the tattoo Niki has... to me, it's pretty clear that it's an abstraction of a DNA strand - well, actually, half of a DNA strand, as I recall. I've not paid close enough attention - does her alter-ego have the mirror half, have we seen? Or is there another character that has the mirror image of the tattoo, to "complete" the one Niki has? And if so, is this a clue?


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

rkester said:


> here's the PDF version for episode 06:
> http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/novels/downloads/Heroes_novel_006.pdf
> 
> And the online interactive version:
> http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/novels/novel_006.shtml


Your right. That was pretty short.


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Ghost_Dog1 said:


> What do you think? Is that the Clue? Wildcats pride? I can never see what Claires sweater says. But Maybe if they look close at the painting it shows?


 I think that one fits better than the train crash. It will make it harder for them to figure it out.


----------



## dimented (May 21, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> Hmm. Going back to the tattoo Niki has... to me, it's pretty clear that it's an abstraction of a DNA strand - well, actually, half of a DNA strand, as I recall. I've not paid close enough attention - does her alter-ego have the mirror half, have we seen? Or is there another character that has the mirror image of the tattoo, to "complete" the one Niki has? And if so, is this a clue?


Where have you been? 

Seriously, we have had extensive discussions about this and it seems to be the concencus that most of the heroes have this mark somewhere associated with them. For example the cheerleader had it on on of her textbooks. Also, the Indian fathers book has it on the cover if I remember right. Basically it is the symbol of the Heroes.


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

dimented said:


> Where have you been?
> 
> Seriously, we have had extensive discussions about this and it seems to be the concencus that most of the heroes have this mark somewhere associated with them. For example the cheerleader had it on on of her textbooks. Also, the Indian fathers book has it on the cover if I remember right. Basically it is the symbol of the Heroes.


Sorry, until this week I've been running a week behind, so I've avoided the threads.  In any case, I was more wondering about whether there is anything to the thought that it might be "completed" by someone else's tattoo.


----------



## dimented (May 21, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> Sorry, until this week I've been running a week behind, so I've avoided the threads.  In any case, I was more wondering about whether there is anything to the thought that it might be "completed" by someone else's tattoo.


No problem. Just giving you slack. 

Interesting idea. I am not sure if that has been talked about. But I would say that the fact that it has been used in a lot of places would signify it as a symbol for those of altered DNA. Off the top of my head I can rembember it in about half a dozen places. Eraser guy with glasses guy wears it around his neck for example.

But you may be on to something. Time will tell I guess.


----------



## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> I don't think so... why would dad suddenly turn on Niki then? I think Micah has witnessed something she doesn't know about. Or was pretending to be asleep while she buried the dead people. Or found the money in the attic.


I didn't think it was suddenly. I thought he turned on her because he saw her with the money and realized that she set him up. Or are you saying that Micah elaborated and told his dad everything that you presume he witnessed? I hadn't thought of that, but I suppose it's possible.


----------



## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

cherry ghost said:


>


That one does fit better.

I like the misdirection the train wreck could cause though.
They find "a" cheerleader, but not "the" cheerleader.

Or, perhaps it will be a purposeful misdirection.
They use the train wreck painting, Sylar sees it and goes after the wrong cheerleader, thus the heroes have saved "the" cheerleader, and thus the world.

(overuse of the word thus, -10 points)

phox


----------



## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

I think the save the cheerleader thing is going to involve more than just a simple rescue. TO me it sounds like larger picture thing. 

question is, will it happen during sweeps?


----------



## milo99 (Oct 14, 2002)

if i recall correctly, the train wreck painting just had an aerial shot of the wreckage- no cheerleader there. So Peter and Isaac woudln't be looking for that painting since they wouldn't be able to tell that it has anything to do w/ the cheerleader- they'd have to watch the local news to know about that but then, well, that kinda defeats the mystery.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

3D said:


> He might have been talking about his mom's internet activity, which he probably figures his dad doesn't know about.


I don't think so. Micah reads 9th Wonders, so maybe he saw his mom in the comic book at some point? We haven't seen all the pages of all the issues.

Or he wasn't asleep when they went to the desert....


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

3D said:


> I didn't think it was suddenly. I thought he turned on her because he saw her with the money and realized that she set him up. Or are you saying that Micah elaborated and told his dad everything that you presume he witnessed? I hadn't thought of that, but I suppose it's possible.


He saw her come from the attic with a briefcase. If he trusted her he wouldn't have immediately turned on her, he would have said, "what's in the briefcase?" and she would have said, "I'm so sorry... I was involved after all" and he would say, "what are you saying?" ... that sort of thing.

Instead it played like he knew something really bad about her and was just waiting for her.

Of course, the alternate explanation is, he poofed through the ceiling and saw the money as she opened the briefcase. But even then, why turn on her? She clearly was remorseful... he must have found out something juicy and naughty.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

For some reason, it almost seemed like her alter ego was setting her up. Why tell her where the money is and then let the clumbsy, careless Niki crawl up in the attic, make a helluva lot of noise, and finally drop the suitcase on the floor for anyone in the house to hear. It seems like bad Niki can't come out until she's threatened and bad Niki wanted to get DL out of the way so bad that she created a threat to give bad Niki the chance to take over and get rid of DL for good.


----------



## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

But the thing is that the badside Niki has good intentions. In the comic this week...



Spoiler



she is seen involved in the heist for the $2million. and after, when the guys all are talking about what to do with their share, she says shes using it for school tuition.



So we know she isnt all bad when shes the alternative person.


----------



## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

mwhip said:


> I have said before and I will say it again...split personality disorder is not a super power.


Backhanding someone and having them fly throught the air with enough force to demolish your armoire is a good trick though.

Z


----------



## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> I don't think so. Micah reads 9th Wonders, so maybe he saw his mom in the comic book at some point? We haven't seen all the pages of all the issues.
> 
> Or he wasn't asleep when they went to the desert....


If that was her on the cover of issue #9, no telling what was inside. Hiro's issue was pretty detailed and he recognized himself. Micah would likely recognize his mom if she was was featured.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

rkester said:


> I think the save the cheerleader thing is going to involve more than just a simple rescue. TO me it sounds like larger picture thing.
> 
> question is, will it happen during sweeps?


Obviously, by "save the cheerleader" they mean "make the cheerleader accept Jesus Christ as her lord and saviour".


----------



## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

Any chance there is a better shot of the 9th Wonders cover somewhere?


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

is save the cheerleader like save the key in buffy?


----------



## slydog75 (Jul 8, 2004)

has anoyone found any 'hidden secrets' in the comics? They allude that their are some to find on the main page.


----------



## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

MickeS said:


> Obviously, by "save the cheerleader" they mean "make the cheerleader accept Jesus Christ as her lord and saviour".


::snort::

Great, now I have people prairie-dogging in the office to see why I just barked out a very loud laugh. Thanks alot!


----------



## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

Ive not really found any secrets. But im not sure what they are eluding to. I mean, the show itself is full of secrets and messages and symbols.

Unless there are things there I did not see or optical illusions or something I dunno. Ive only viewed it via the PDF so maybe the online version has something more to offer.


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

Cboath said:
 

> Also, I think it was mentioned in a previous thread, but does anyone thing that pixie girl can manipulate people? Glasses dude made a comment about knowing she could persuade a little harder or something. Any time the guy says he is giving up and going home, all she had to do before was say "Don't go" and he would be like "ok". Maybe she just let him go this time.


All women have this power... If they close their eyes, and really concentrate....

on that bra strap....


----------



## thatmeowgirl (Oct 8, 2004)

newsposter said:


> But like you said, one of the producers probably had real money on his person and should have ponied up. (or raided petty cash).


That is illegal. You can't use really money in television and film. I've acquired prop money for productions and it's actually really expensive. There's only one good manufacturer here in LA.


----------



## gerbil42 (Aug 26, 2003)

Ghost_Dog1 said:


> Anyone have an idea of what the missing painting was?


I'm guessing the missing painting, the one that will identify Claire, or point them in the right direction was the train explosion, which will lead to the news stories of the Cheerleader who saved the guy, so they'll go to Odessa and target the wrong cheerleader at first, the one who stole Claire's credit.


----------



## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

thatmeowgirl said:


> That is illegal. You can't use really money in television and film. I've acquired prop money for productions and it's actually really expensive. There's only one good manufacturer here in LA.


Actually, I believe you can't show a whole bill, 1, 5, 10, 20, etc.

If you have them fanned out with something obscurring the top one, that's ok.

If you have a folded bill, it's ok.

Or something like that.

We used to have a list of things not allowed in commercials we air, 
and this was one of them.

phox 
(TV Station Employee)


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

spikedavis said:


> no-but super strength is. and only one personality has it.


It seems like we aren't in agreement about this--does "good" Niki have the same powers but just doesn't know it or know how to use them? Also, I never heard of killing one personality in a split personality case. At least not physically, but you may be able to get rid of one or the other. Are we talking dead body and somehow the other personality is still alive?

I keep expecting Hiro to "get tired" and have to rest before he can stop time again, but they show no sign of limitations. He must have done it a bunch of times during the card game. But it's also hard to imagine that he can't do it under stress. This whole thing is stressfull beginning to end.

HRG guy must know that Claire told her friend about her powers--he stole his tape. That kid is probably due for an erasure....or worse.


----------



## alansh (Jan 3, 2003)

If you view the interactive comic and click on the page (other than the first couple of pages which take you to a Versa ad), you get a popup. It's a piece of art, or a Petrelli campaign commercial. The popup only seems to work in IE. The Wikipedia entry for Heroes has direct links to the easter eggs.

As the online comics seem to be canon, alter-Niki is more than just strong.


Spoiler



She rips the door off a safe!


----------



## painkiller (Jun 23, 2005)

But didn't the conversation between alter-Niki and good-Niki turn out to be true?

(Alter-Niki said that DL would take Micah from her.)

So alter-Niki convinced good-Niki to take the money (and Micah) and run.


----------



## stichnot (Dec 18, 2004)

I haven't seen any speculation on this yet -- maybe Hiro's "do-over" will affect Niki and change her future where she is killed by her husband.


----------



## TIVOSciolist (Oct 13, 2003)

choccy said:


> NIKI
> 
> (yes, I checked  )


For some reason, I vaguely seem to recall that her website was www.lasvegasnikki.com.

(I'm at work so I'm not going to try this site to see what pops up.)


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

TIVOSciolist said:


> For some reason, I vaguely seem to recall that her website was www.lasvegasnikki.com.
> 
> (I'm at work so I'm not going to try this site to see what pops up.)


Don't worry. It's a parked domain.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

JYoung said:


> Don't worry. It's a parked domain.


www.lasvegasniki.com , on the other hand, redirects to the 9thwonders official/unofficial website for the show.


----------



## Hound (Sep 11, 2003)

Okay - Horned Rimmed Glasses Bald Hollowing Out Dude was in LA to get the cop. We then see HRG at the lab. So HRG didn't have to go to LA in fact it was prob to dangerious for him to with a mind reader about.

So we don't have to assume HGA is moving to fast to be in the same timeline. He has flunkies who he trusts and uses.

And I think Pixigirl planted her persuasion with that kiss.


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

thatmeowgirl said:


> That is illegal. You can't use really money in television and film.


Hmmm. That's odd. Why not?


----------



## Ghost_Dog1 (Apr 25, 2006)

Why does mister Bennet need Mohinder?You might think he'd want him out of the way. He and "Mister Forget about it" seem to be able to find the gifted without him.


----------



## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

It's interesting that Nasty Niki didn't tell Nice Niki about the $2-million in the attic a couple of episodes ago, when Nice Niki owed $30K to Linder... Both Nikis could have avoided the desert road trip and sleeping with Nathan.


----------



## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

MickeS said:


> Obviously, by "save the cheerleader" they mean "make the cheerleader accept Jesus Christ as her lord and *saviour*".


And also make her British?!


----------



## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

3D said:


> He might have been talking about his mom's internet activity, which he probably figures his dad doesn't know about.


DL knew all about LasVegasNiki - he even commented to her that he didn't care how she earned her money, he was supportive of it in fact.


----------



## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

ced6 said:


> Just a minor comment, I don't think that Hiro's use of English is inconsistent. IIRC, the conversation in the diner was pretty simple on the part of Hiro and the other character could tell he didn't speak English well, so he probably spoke slower than your average conversation. On the phone, people were speaking quickly to Hiro and he also couldn't view their body language to help clue him in on the meaning of words he didn't understand.
> 
> Kind of like how in French class, you can understand the tapes and videos where everyone's speaking simple sentences and slowly, but then when you hear actual French spoken you're lucky if you catch a few words.
> 
> Of course, this is all from memory, so I may be completely wrong


Well, your memory matches mine! I thought Nathan and Hiro had a very simple conversation, using short simple words and a lot of hand gestures to convey meaning. I didn't see anything out of place. (I've been looking online to see if I could find some transcripts of the diner scene, but no luck!)


----------



## thatmeowgirl (Oct 8, 2004)

busyba said:


> Hmmm. That's odd. Why not?


There's some law prohibiting the depiction of actual United States paper money in films and television. Also the difficulty of controlling a large quantity of real money on the set requires the use of prop currency.

Same thing with prop drugs.


----------



## Ghost_Dog1 (Apr 25, 2006)

drew2k said:


> It's interesting that Nasty Niki didn't tell Nice Niki about the $2-million in the attic a couple of episodes ago, when Nice Niki owed $30K to Linder... Both Nikis could have avoided the desert road trip and sleeping with Nathan.


I wonder if she did'nt have it then. The Suitcase under the card table with the gun on it was similar. Maybe DemoNiki took it during the massacre?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Here's the cheerleader enjoying some light-hearted moments on the set....


----------



## Ghost_Dog1 (Apr 25, 2006)

busyba said:


> Here's the cheerleader enjoying some light-hearted moments on the set....


Oh my god! Aren't those gang signs?


----------



## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

Looks like "the shocker" to me.


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Ghost_Dog1 said:


> Oh my god! Aren't those gang signs?


Well, the top one is "the shocker", not a gang sign.

As for the bottom one, I'm not aware of which gang sign consists of attempting to lick one's own rended torso.


----------



## Ruth (Jul 31, 2001)

busyba said:


> As for the bottom one, I'm not aware of which gang sign consists of attempting to lick one's own rended torso.


I don't know either but that must be one tough gang!


----------



## Ghost_Dog1 (Apr 25, 2006)

I did'nt know what the shocker was. Till I read the wikipedia. Oh Boy Claire when dad finds out!



Oh man.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shocker_(hand_gesture)


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Do we know the cheerleader needing to be saved is Claire 

-smak-


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

I'd hit it.

-smak-

ps. Errrr, next summer.


----------



## Ghost_Dog1 (Apr 25, 2006)

smak said:


> Do we know the cheerleader needing to be saved is Claire
> 
> -smak-


Well Sylar has a more advanced Version of Suresh's map. So I think he Knows which brain he wants.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

thatmeowgirl said:


> There's some law prohibiting the depiction of actual United States paper money in films and television. Also the difficulty of controlling a large quantity of real money on the set requires the use of prop currency.
> 
> Same thing with prop drugs.


They also have the same rules about military uniforms. Actors can't use authentic military uniforms in tv shows or movies.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

I have searched online for the last 40 minutes and have found just one single reference to the concept that there might possibly HAVE ONCE BEEN a law prohibiting the use of real currency in filmed productions. But I can't find it, and I've searched through the US Treasury site too. The only mention of any restriction on reproduction is related to printing, in color or black & white, and specifically requires the reproduction to be 50% or less or 150% or more of the original size of the currency.

I doubt very much there is a law prohibiting the use of real currency in filmed/televised productions (though welcome anyone who's able to quote the specific law involved if there is one); if there's any reasoning to using prop money at all, it's simply because it's less worry to control on stage.


----------



## LordFett (May 6, 2005)




----------



## Ghost_Dog1 (Apr 25, 2006)

LordFett said:


>


OOOO a present!Whats the occasion?


----------



## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Ghost_Dog1 said:


> OOOO a present!Whats the occasion?


Reunion. The fake bio-parents probably left it for Claire, and as suggested earlier, it's probably a copy of Suresh's book. (It will be interesting to see which picture graces the book jacket: Professor #1, or Professor #2.)


----------



## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

ScottE22 said:


> That's the guy! I was Googling for "Shenkar" because that's the way everyone was spelling it in this thread and I didn't have the opening credits to reference for spelling.
> 
> Didn't know Norah Jones was his daughter - very interesting trivia.


Indeed, last night's episode incorrectly spelled "The Voice" as "Shenkar." Previous episodes seem to switch the spellings between "Shankar" and "Shenkar." Thanks for clearing up the correct spelling!!!

WOW, someone needs a better proofreader!

(Unless of course Shenkar is Shankar's son??)


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:


> They also have the same rules about military uniforms. Actors can't use authentic military uniforms in tv shows or movies.


My understanding is that it goes beyond tv and movies. IIRC, wearing an authentic US military uniform that you are not entitled to wear by virtue of actually serving in the military is illegal in general.

EDIT: Ok, I found the relevant laws. 10 USC, Subtitle A, Part II, Chapter 45, Sections 771 and 772.

Interestingly, one of the exceptions listed in 772 specifically _allows_ actors in movies and other theatrical productions to wear authentic uniforms.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

busyba said:


> My understanding is that it goes beyond tv and movies. IIRC, wearing an authentic US military uniform that you are not entitled to wear by virtue of actually serving in the military is illegal in general.


http://usmilitary.about.com/od/theorderlyroom/a/uniformwear.htm

I've never heard that before; and I've had friends who have been in the armed services who've at times offered to get me uniforms at the PX as costumes. Now apparently "uniform" doesn't mean the clothing alone, but combined with proper insignia/medals, et. al. In other words, the devil's in the details... though they did offer general insignia as well so the uniform looked OK; this was in DC... Navy/Marines, specifically.

It still appears to be something there'd be little concern about, certainly for purposes of making movies/television shows -- and the latter is likely able to be authorized easily enough anyway.


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Pretty clearly as busyba noted, movies and tv shows are exempted from the military clothing rules. The main reason they show up wrong on tv shows and movies is bad uniform setup or understanding. Insignia in funny places, turned wrong, wrong decorations. You name it.



> Here's the cheerleader enjoying some light-hearted moments on the set....


Shouldn't that be "some *open*-hearted moments"?


----------



## RyMcQ (Oct 15, 2001)

By the way, everyone, the Shenkar in the soundtrack is Lakshminarayana Shankar, not Ravi (Norah Jones's dad). With that first name, I can't blame him for going by his last name only.

Click here for video of him playing violin and singing with Peter Gabriel on his Secret World Tour. You'll recognize his voice from the Heroes soundtrack.


----------



## PeternJim (Sep 25, 2004)

I'm intrigued by Hiro's inability to stop time during the shredding of the poker players. Other people have mentioned either his tiredness or the stress of being frightened, (either of which might be true), but he's been pretty good at knee-jerk uses of his power before, stopping time to save the little girl and time-traveling when the bomb went off.

Of course, he was prepped for the girl, and the bomb was a direct threat to himself.

But, the only other time so far that we've seen him using his power around another Hero was the future Hiro stopping time on the train with Peter, and everyone mentioned how weird the lighting looked. Hiro said something to the effect that it was really hard for him to maintain it (and we assumed it was because he had traveled so far in time.) And even so, Peter didn't freeze at all, which we attributed to his Mimic powers.

Wonder if his powers are harder to use around other Heroes, or if they don't work on other Heroes at all. Freezing a room full of targets but not Evil Niki would sure make it easy for her to shred them. (and yes, there was still some real-time damage, so if it worked at all, it didn't work long.)


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I still think it's stress. Both with the bomb and the little girl, he was taken off guard and acted instinctively (yes, he was expecting the girl, but he hadn't found her and when he did there wasn't time to think about it). And when he's relaxed, he's able to do it on purpose.

It's when he consciously tries to use the power while under stress that he fails.


----------



## PeternJim (Sep 25, 2004)

Meanwhile, something someone posted got me thinking. 

I thought it was really weird for Future Hiro to go back in time and say "The fate of the whole world depends completely and utterly on you very rapidly getting everyone together and saving some cheerleader somewhere, but even though I am doing this at great cost to myself, I won't tell you which one."

Seemed to me to be a whole lot clearer to say "Go to Odessa, Texas on November 6th and save Claire Bennett, a cheerleader who lives on Maple Drive, from a serial killer who wants to rip her head off at school that night. Bennett. Odessa. Got that?"

Soooo...... something significant is going on. Either Claire isn't the cheerleader they are supposed to save, or something. (And I am expecting that Little Miss I'll Take Credit is toast.) 

Either that or Future Hiro should have spent some of the money he used for his makeover on Common Sense lessons.


----------



## arcadefreaque (Aug 31, 2006)

PeternJim said:


> Either that or Future Hiro should have spent some of the money he used for his makeover on Common Sense lessons.


Or maybe he cannot say, because it would have too much of an impact on the future (or possibly planting the knowledge in Peter's brain would expose that direct information to a mind reading villian, thereby negatively impacting a requied future series of events)


----------



## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

newsposter said:


> hiro always looks like he's forcing a fart...wish they would change that


OMG - wouldn't that make for a funny YouTube video?

All the scenes with Hiro concentrating, strung together with sound effects.

I'm laughing just thinking about it.


----------



## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

drew2k said:


> DL knew all about LasVegasNiki - he even commented to her that he didn't care how she earned her money, he was supportive of it in fact.


Right you are, which is why I didn't say that DL didn't know about it, just that the son would have figured that he didn't.


----------



## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

thatmeowgirl said:


> I've acquired prop money for productions and it's actually really expensive.


The idea of fake money being really expensive cracks me up.

Does a fake dollar cost more than a dollar?


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

stellie93 said:


> It seems like we aren't in agreement about this--does "good" Niki have the same powers but just doesn't know it or know how to use them? Also, I never heard of killing one personality in a split personality case. ...


How many split-personality cases have you heard of where one personality can bend steel in their bare hands and is married to someone who can walk through walls?


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

drew2k said:


> It's interesting that Nasty Niki didn't tell Nice Niki about the $2-million in the attic a couple of episodes ago, when Nice Niki owed $30K to Linder... Both Nikis could have avoided the desert road trip and sleeping with Nathan.


Well, she _is_ blonde...


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

PeternJim said:


> ...
> 
> Wonder if his powers are harder to use around other Heroes, or if they don't work on other Heroes at all. Freezing a room full of targets but not Evil Niki would sure make it easy for her to shred them. (and yes, there was still some real-time damage, so if it worked at all, it didn't work long.)


Well, afterwards, he didn't say "I tried but couldn't do anything. Why didn't my powers work?" Instead, he was upset that instead of doing something, he was hiding in the bathroom. Conduct very unbecoming of a hero.

I'm not sure that every little detail has some hidden significance. I think you have to just take things at face value sometimes.


----------



## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

RyMcQ said:


> By the way, everyone, the Shenkar in the soundtrack is Lakshminarayana Shankar, not Ravi (Norah Jones's dad). With that first name, I can't blame him for going by his last name only.
> 
> Click here for video of him playing violin and singing with Peter Gabriel on his Secret World Tour. You'll recognize his voice from the Heroes soundtrack.


*THAT'S* the guy I was thinking of! I have Peter Gabriel's _Secret World Live_ CD set and that guy is all over it. Good to know I'm not mis-remembering things...

BTW - if you grew up listening to Solsbury Hill and Red Rain and you *don't* own a copy of PG's Secret World tour CD you need to obtain one.


----------



## jschuman (Feb 20, 2001)

PeternJim said:


> Meanwhile, something someone posted got me thinking.
> 
> I thought it was really weird for Future Hiro to go back in time and say "The fate of the whole world depends completely and utterly on you very rapidly getting everyone together and saving some cheerleader somewhere, but even though I am doing this at great cost to myself, I won't tell you which one."
> 
> ...


Perhaps it's the _journey_ that is important. If Future-Hiro just told Peter where to go/what to do he wouldn't go through the steps necessary to get it done. And Future-Hiro didn't have time to tell him every last crucial step of the journey. So he got him started....


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

PeternJim said:


> Seemed to me to be a whole lot clearer to say "Go to Odessa, Texas on November 6th and save Claire Bennett, a cheerleader who lives on Maple Drive, from a serial killer who wants to rip her head off at school that night. Bennett. Odessa. Got that?"


That doesn't make for a very good marketing phrase.

"Save the cheerleader. Save the world" works much better.

I think they will track down the cheerleader via the painting of the train accident. They will remember it happening and someone will see an old newspaper lying around with the photo that matches the painting. It will say it was in Odessa. They go to Odessa and they will find the cheerleader. But the first cheerleader they find will be the cheerleaer that took credit for saving those guys in the train. That's the wrong cheerleader. Then, they'll find Claire.

Just my wild ass guess.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> Also, I never heard of killing one personality in a split personality case. At least not physically, but you may be able to get rid of one or the other.


But you've heard of people flying, walking thru walls and stopping time?


----------



## jpwoof (May 19, 2004)

mwhip said:


> Anyone got any theories on why Hiro could not freeze time when Nikki was in the room?


He was interrupted by Ando.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

busyba said:


> Well, the top one is "the shocker", not a gang sign.


That's not "The Shocker." Her index and middle fingers are not together. Instead, it's the ASU Pitchfork.


----------



## jpwoof (May 19, 2004)

Do you think Micah's power is remote vision?


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

PeternJim said:


> I'm intrigued by Hiro's inability to stop time during the shredding of the poker players. Other people have mentioned either his tiredness or the stress of being frightened, (either of which might be true), but he's been pretty good at knee-jerk uses of his power before, stopping time to save the little girl and time-traveling when the bomb went off.
> 
> Of course, he was prepped for the girl, and the bomb was a direct threat to himself.
> 
> ...


Wouldn't that assume that he actually knows what he is doing? For example, do you think he HAS to close his eyes so tight? Even his friend told him he doesn't know how it works yet.

Suppose you just found out (like two days ago) you had some power. Do you think you would be perfect at it immediately. How about when you learned to walk or talk? It takes time to get fluent in any "power" even mundane ones like walking or talking.

In other words, there doesn't have to be any "meaning" other than he is still new to this.

And he doesn't have a sword yet.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

I'm still sticking to my theory that if Hiro can't see something then he can't freeze it. I don't think it had anything to do with stress or tiredness. Like when he teleported to New York...he saw the picture of New York, focused on New York and then he was in New York. With the threat being on the other side of the door he didn't know what was there for him to freeze so he couldn't stop it.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

unicorngoddess said:


> I'm still sticking to my theory that if Hiro can't see something then he can't freeze it.


But he doesn't freeze things, he stops time.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But he doesn't freeze things, he stops time.


I was using the same term the person asking the question used:



mwhip said:


> Anyone got any theories on why Hiro could not freeze time when Nikki was in the room?


I'm assuming when the OP said "freeze" they meant freeze (or stop) time.


----------



## Ghost_Dog1 (Apr 25, 2006)

There are a couple Q.A. 's with show writers here. Spoilers?

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=8694
http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=8758


----------



## Ghost_Dog1 (Apr 25, 2006)

With Eden working with MR. Bennet does it open up the Question: Who Cleaned out Sylars apartment? Did MR.Bennet use Sylars map to identify Nathan,and Parkman?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

unicorngoddess said:


> I was using the same term the person asking the question used:
> 
> I'm assuming when the OP said "freeze" they meant freeze (or stop) time.


My point is, he's not just freezing time for the people in the room; he's freezing time for (presumably) the entire planet. Or more to the point, he's freezing time for himself. So whether or not he can see certain people should be irrelevant to whether or not he can freeze time.


----------



## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

There was an interesting tidbit dropped in this episode that hasn't been discussed yet: After Claire's alleged bio-parents left, her (adoptive) mother told her that she'd been ill as a baby. Going on the dramatic principle that you don't put a gun on the mantlepiece unless it'll be used later in the play, this raises the question of how this illness might be related to Claire's powers. Also, in an earlier episode somebody referred to Sylar as "patient 0," which is a term that's generally used in the realm of infectious diseases to refer to the first case of that disease. Together, these two seemingly throwaway lines seem to suggest that the powers that have begun to emerge are at least partially linked to some sort of infectious agent rather than (or in addition to) an evolutionary mutation.

So far, I see no evidence that this will be an important plot point, but it could conceivably become one. For instance, perhaps HRG's organization knows about this and is concerned about the possibilities if the infectious agent mutates and spreads so that _everybody_ acquires superpowers; or maybe the point of their trap-and-release operation is to figure out how the infectious agent works so that they can give whatever powers they want to whoever they want. Of course, this is all wild speculation.


----------



## Ghost_Dog1 (Apr 25, 2006)

srs5694 said:


> There was an interesting tidbit dropped in this episode that hasn't been discussed yet: After Claire's alleged bio-parents left, her (adoptive) mother told her that she'd been ill as a baby. Going on the dramatic principle that you don't put a gun on the mantlepiece unless it'll be used later in the play, this raises the question of how this illness might be related to Claire's powers. Also, in an earlier episode somebody referred to Sylar as "patient 0," which is a term that's generally used in the realm of infectious diseases to refer to the first case of that disease. Together, these two seemingly throwaway lines seem to suggest that the powers that have begun to emerge are at least partially linked to some sort of infectious agent rather than (or in addition to) an evolutionary mutation.
> 
> So far, I see no evidence that this will be an important plot point, but it could conceivably become one. For instance, perhaps HRG's organization knows about this and is concerned about the possibilities if the infectious agent mutates and spreads so that _everybody_ acquires superpowers; or maybe the point of their trap-and-release operation is to figure out how the infectious agent works so that they can give whatever powers they want to whoever they want. Of course, this is all wild speculation.


Yeah. Mom said "We thought there might be something wrong with your chromosomes."


----------



## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> My point is, he's not just freezing time for the people in the room; he's freezing time for (presumably) the entire planet. Or more to the point, he's freezing time for himself. So whether or not he can see certain people should be irrelevant to whether or not he can freeze time.


I was contemplating that just recently. If Hiro is "freezing time" and leaving himself unaffected (like an Einsteinian time-dilation effect that doesn't touch Hiro himself), then the question becomes how far the time-freeze effect extends. A few meters? A few miles? A few AU? Does it cut off abruptly or just slowly fade away? Unless the effect is _really_ big (many light-years or more), somebody's bound to notice the time-freezing. ("Gee, how come everybody across the street is frozen?") The bigger the area affected, the harder it is to believe -- but of course this is fantasy, so one uses a forklift to suspend disbelief about such things to begin with.

Another explanation is that Hiro isn't freezing time per se; rather, he's speeding up his own time-frame to the point that everything else appears frozen, but in reality time is passing much more slowly for the rest of the universe. (A sort of anti-time-dilation effect for Hiro alone.) This would make his time "freezes" undetectable except by observing Hiro himself or his actions. assuming no other power or technobabble way to detect from a distance a person who's operating in an abnormal time field. Personally, I prefer this latter explanation; it's simpler and easier to swallow.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> My point is, he's not just freezing time for the people in the room; he's freezing time for (presumably) the entire planet. Or more to the point, he's freezing time for himself. So whether or not he can see certain people should be irrelevant to whether or not he can freeze time.


Well, I guess we'd have to determine if he's stopping time for his immediate surrounding area or for the whole planet. Because if it's gonna be for the whole planet, it can't just stop there. He'd have to be stopping time for the entire universe.


----------



## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

I think it would be much easier for Hiro to accelerate himself to FTL speeds than to freeze the entire universe. In other words, he's moving so fast that everything else _relative to him_ is standing still.

This seems to be a different power from the one that allows him to move back and forth on the timeline, as he did in the first episode (moving six weeks into the future and then back again) and in the fifth episode (when his future self visits Peter).


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

unicorngoddess said:


> Well, I guess we'd have to determine if he's stopping time for his immediate surrounding area or for the whole planet. Because if it's gonna be for the whole planet, it can't just stop there. He'd have to be stopping time for the entire universe.


And the Universe is really, really, really, big.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

srs5694 said:


> So far, I see no evidence that this will be an important plot point, but it could conceivably become one. For instance, perhaps HRG's organization knows about this and is concerned about the possibilities if the infectious agent mutates and spreads so that _everybody_ acquires superpowers; or maybe the point of their trap-and-release operation is to figure out how the infectious agent works so that they can give whatever powers they want to whoever they want. Of course, this is all wild speculation.


I wish more shows today used Chekhov's "gun on the mantel" precept - I'm looking at you, Lost. 

As for the plot you are describing - it sounds reminiscent of The 4400.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Graymalkin said:


> I think it would be much easier for Hiro to accelerate himself to FTL speeds than to freeze the entire universe. In other words, he's moving so fast that everything else _relative to him_ is standing still.
> 
> This seems to be a different power from the one that allows him to move back and forth on the timeline, as he did in the first episode (moving six weeks into the future and then back again) and in the fifth episode (when his future self visits Peter).


So then if he is moving faster than the speed of light then it wouldn't effect anything outside of his immediate area since everything is still going normal speed. Hence if something's going on in another room and he's not in that room to try to stop it, time will not stop (or appear to stop) unless Hiro is actually in that room moving at his ultra fast speed to try to stop something from happening.


----------



## thatmeowgirl (Oct 8, 2004)

dswallow said:


> I have searched online for the last 40 minutes and have found just one single reference to the concept that there might possibly HAVE ONCE BEEN a law prohibiting the use of real currency in filmed productions. But I can't find it, and I've searched through the US Treasury site too. The only mention of any restriction on reproduction is related to printing, in color or black & white, and specifically requires the reproduction to be 50% or less or 150% or more of the original size of the currency.
> 
> I doubt very much there is a law prohibiting the use of real currency in filmed/televised productions (though welcome anyone who's able to quote the specific law involved if there is one); if there's any reasoning to using prop money at all, it's simply because it's less worry to control on stage.


I don't have the exact law, but I work in the industry, have worked on many productions and have never been permitted to use real currency. Not saying I didn't use it on some small productions when I first started but on larger productions have not been permitted to use it. I'm sure you will argue further but these are my experiences working within the art dept.


----------



## thatmeowgirl (Oct 8, 2004)

scooterboy said:


> The idea of fake money being really expensive cracks me up.
> 
> Does a fake dollar cost more than a dollar?


LOL. No. But fine reproductions do cost. They make all denominations, but each bill costs the same.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

JYoung said:


> And the Universe is really, really, really, big.


That was a pretty cool video. I sent the link to my husband because for as long as I've known him he's always had a problem grasping the concept of the Universe being so big. Maybe that will help him out


----------



## mcdougll (Jan 27, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:


> So then if he is moving faster than the speed of light then it wouldn't effect anything outside of his immediate area since everything is still going normal speed. Hence if something's going on in another room and he's not in that room to try to stop it, time will not stop (or appear to stop) unless Hiro is actually in that room moving at his ultra fast speed to try to stop something from happening.


Geez people, what's the mystery? He said at the very beginning of the series that he could [paraphrasing here] bend the space/time continuum. Essentially, that means he can choose to affect time (stop it and move independently) or affect space (instantly move from one place to another). It's obvious to me that when he "stops time" it's for everything, not just within a certain radius. If a certain 'radius' were the case, you'd have people just outside of the radius looking in at the frozen stuff saying "WTF?" To me, it's not that his power 'affects the whole universe', it's that he has the ability to "slip out" of the normal time-space continuum's hold on him.

I'm actually stunned that no-one is nit-picking Hiro's "pick the cards out of the air, then toss them back and have them just stop at the right place" thing. I thought for sure that would generate at least a page of debate.


----------



## mcdougll (Jan 27, 2003)

MrGreg said:


> [snip]Also, it's a good thing Claire has healing powers. Otherwise with as clumsy as she is she'd be dead already. (Hand in garbage disposal, football tackle, stick through brain, burnt hands, etc.)


Maybe her power is why she's so clumsy. If you don't 'hurt' when you do something wrong, you never really learn to avoid doing it.


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## mcdougll (Jan 27, 2003)

GadgetFreak said:


> Anyone think that Mica created his mom's alter-ego, perhaps as a way to protect her? He seems to know a lot about it, and when he told his Dad that Mom also had a secret he looked a little sheepish like he felt guilty.


Now that's a theory I hadn't thought of. That could mean Niki isn't really "special" after all, Micah is. This would explain why this seemed to happen to her recently, as opposed to growing up with it.

Interesting.


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

mcdougll said:


> Maybe her power is why she's so clumsy. If you don't 'hurt' when you do something wrong, you never really learn to avoid doing it.


Good point.


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

I think that Claire wants to share with her family, her dad in particular. And maybe she's clumbsy because she does want to share. I mean, when she grabbed that pan from the oven, she knew she could without the potholders and did it anyway.

It's like suicidal people who give lots of signs. They want to be known/seen/discovered.

And as far as Hiro and time. I think he is stopping all time everywhere. If he stopped time even in a city, they be out of sync after.


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

I'm betting on Nikki's alter ego being Sylar.

(Hope I didn't smeek)


----------



## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

mask2343 said:


> I'm betting on Nikki's alter ego being Sylar.
> 
> (Hope I didn't smeek)


Maybe. You at least skipped the whole discussion on the spelling of Niki


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

nikis other half is not sylar.  no way. imho


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

mcdougll said:


> Geez people, what's the mystery? He said at the very beginning of the series that he could [paraphrasing here] bend the space/time continuum. Essentially, that means he can choose to affect time (stop it and move independently) or affect space (instantly move from one place to another). It's obvious to me that when he "stops time" it's for everything, not just within a certain radius. If a certain 'radius' were the case, you'd have people just outside of the radius looking in at the frozen stuff saying "WTF?" To me, it's not that his power 'affects the whole universe', it's that he has the ability to "slip out" of the normal time-space continuum's hold on him.


+1 on slipping out of time. He's not freezing the universe, he just chooses to stop going along for the ride.



> I'm actually stunned that no-one is nit-picking Hiro's "pick the cards out of the air, then toss them back and have them just stop at the right place" thing. I thought for sure that would generate at least a page of debate.


That was a pretty cool effect. You could argue that when he held the card, it was out of time along with him.. and then when he threw it, it had residual 'out of time' with it, which eventually wore off until it came to rest back 'in time' with everyone else, apparently frozen to Hiro


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

mcdougll said:


> Maybe her power is why she's so clumsy. If you don't 'hurt' when you do something wrong, you never really learn to avoid doing it.


Hm... this reminds me of familial dysautonomia (Riley Day Syndrome), a rare genetic disorder. Unfortunately for those individuals afflicted with RDS, super-healing doesn't come with the package. Still, a lot of what we've seen happen to Claire thus far isn't necessarily her being clumsy. All of her 'suicide' attempts were intentional. Her broken neck when tackled by Brody was just her being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Her stick-in-the-neck (again, courtesy of Brody) was the result of her fighting him off. The car accident was no accident. Running into the burning train was intentional. Etc. I'm not even sure that the ring falling into the disposal was an accident. I kind of had the impression at the time that she was deliberately looking to test what would happen when hand met disposal. And the muffin thing wasn't that she was clumsy and forgot mitts; I think it was that she just didn't care about being burnt because she knew it would heal right up.

Edit: I just took a closer look at the link I included to RDS. It's an interesting read and does talk about RDS, but the article isn't really about what I thought it was at first glance


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

rkester said:


> And as far as Hiro and time. I think he is stopping all time everywhere. If he stopped time even in a city, they be out of sync after.


Would explain daylight savings time.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

brott said:


> Something like that makes more sense. It's always bothered me that "Dad" went out and met the Cop only to be back home later in what appeared to be the same day. The Cop's in LA and the "Dad" is in Texas. If the Cop is a prequel to everyone else, then his storyline really does start to make sense.


Like I mentioned before, perhaps he's not flying commercial. He let Nathan get away without following him, so I am assuming that he cannot fly himself (unless, of course, they were purposefully putting Nathan into a stressful situation to see what he could do). Still, he could have some other ability that lets him travel from Texas to Dallas and back in an afternoon. Maybe that had something to do with the second pair of glasses with the cracked lens (e.g. he flies/runs really fast and hit a bug going 500 mph).


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

choccy said:


> OK people.. for some reason this is SO bugging me!
> 
> Here is the correct way to spell the various character's names (from IMDB):
> 
> ...


And let's not forget Sylar (it's not Sylas or Silar or Cylon -- although I'll forgive that last one  )


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

Hiro freezing time and space is just how we as viewers perceive it. Hiro himself accelerates. "First gear" looks to us like he has stopped time. When he touches something, it accelerates to his speed, but when he lets it go, it goes back to normal speed. Like the playing cards. "Second gear", he accelerates enough to exceed the speed of light, so is (fictionally) able to traverse time and space. The closest comic book analogy would be the Flash. A Flash that runs at full speed all the time.


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

Yeah, IMDB's listing of the person playing Sylar is a definite spoiler.


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

The fact that Hiro was able to stop time for everyone except himself and Peter in the subway, though, indicates that he has some type of control over time and space, rather than simply being able to step outside of it.


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## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

rkester said:


> nikis other half is not sylar.  no way. imho


Agreed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Sylar leave a message on the proffessor's answering machine, and wasn't it a male voice?


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

Did anyone bring up Claire's brother yet in this thread? When Claire was badgering her mom about the chromosomal damage she supposedly had, her mom said something like "You're such a hypochondriac. Honestly, you're just like your brother." To me, that opened the door that the brother could also be adopted, and potentially "special" also.


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

bobcarn said:


> Did anyone bring up Claire's brother yet in this thread? When Claire was badgering her mom about the chromosomal damage she supposedly had, her mom said something like "You're such a hypochondriac. Honestly, you're just like your brother." To me, that opened the door that the brother could also be adopted, and potentially "special" also.


This is probably a smeek, but my first thought when I heard that conversation is that possibly Claire's "sickness" is what originally got HRG into his current line of work. Maybe he knows that Claire's body is eventually going to give out on her and what he's been trying to do is study all the others like her to try to help her. Maybe he's trying to "Save the Cheerleader" along with everyone else. Heck, maybe he's the one who gives Hiro the idea in the future.


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

balboa dave said:


> Hiro freezing time and space is just how we as viewers perceive it. Hiro himself accelerates. "First gear" looks to us like he has stopped time. When he touches something, it accelerates to his speed, but when he lets it go, it goes back to normal speed. Like the playing cards. "Second gear", he accelerates enough to exceed the speed of light, so is (fictionally) able to traverse time and space. The closest comic book analogy would be the Flash. A Flash that runs at full speed all the time.


Then how do you explain him going forward in time to the day of the bombing and then back to japan in the current time?


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

Graymalkin said:


> Yeah, IMDB's listing of the person playing Sylar is a definite spoiler.


Yea, it definitely proves who it is not.


----------



## dimented (May 21, 2003)

jking said:


> This is probably a smeek, but my first thought when I heard that conversation is that possibly Claire's "sickness" is what originally got HRG into his current line of work. Maybe he knows that Claire's body is eventually going to give out on her and what he's been trying to do is study all the others like her to try to help her. Maybe he's trying to "Save the Cheerleader" along with everyone else. Heck, maybe he's the one who gives Hiro the idea in the future.


Wow. I don't know why, but I really like this theory for some reason.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Yikes! With the amount of over-analyzing of some details and theorizing about the physics/science of the super-powers, methinks some of you folks need to just sit back, relax, suspend your disbelief, and enjoy the story. 'Cause it's all make-believe, after all! 

I can just imagine if "Bewitched" or "I Dream of Jeannie" were brand new series, people would be all over theorizing about how their powers would "actually" work.

I'm all for discussing the storylines and interpersonal relationships, etc., but at some point we all need to just suspend our disbelief and accept that the producers have artistic license to do things like freeze frame and shoot with a blue filter to indicate a frozen moment in time. It's artistic expression.

In the classic old Batman series with Adam West, all of the bad guys lairs were filmed with the camera sitting crooked. It wasn't that they actually hid out in places that were at a 12° angle -- it was just SHOT that way to emphasize the fact that these guys were "crooked".

And the Dick Tracy movie with Warren Beatty was filmed using primary colors (reds, yellows, blues) to enhance the printed comic book feel.

It's all in the artistic expression. That's all.


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## PeternJim (Sep 25, 2004)

That sort of depends on whether he is "stopping time" or whether he is uncoupling the effect that time has on himself. I sincerely doubt that he is actually affecting every molecule of the universe -- or even locally, since the inertia of everything else would get messy real quickly.

I've been using the phrases like "stopping time" or "freezing" but using them to mean that he is only actually affecting himself and the things he has contact with (including the air he breathes and walks through) (Hmm.. wonder if he stood in one place too long if he would pass out from having used up all the oxygen within immediate breathing distance?)

The local effect would explain why he can move people and things without the "burning up from air friction" issue.

I doubt he is having any effect whatsoever on time itself. Just stepping outside it for a bit.


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## PeternJim (Sep 25, 2004)

wprager said:


> Like I mentioned before, perhaps he's not flying commercial. He let Nathan get away without following him, so I am assuming that he cannot fly himself (unless, of course, they were purposefully putting Nathan into a stressful situation to see what he could do). Still, he could have some other ability that lets him travel from Texas to Dallas and back in an afternoon. Maybe that had something to do with the second pair of glasses with the cracked lens (e.g. he flies/runs really fast and hit a bug going 500 mph).


Do we really think Dad has any powers at all? I don't. At least, none I've seen hinted at. The only thing I see as seriously unexplained is how his little group is finding these people specifically, like his getting into Mohinder's cab, and his pal being in the bar ahead of the cop. But that could just be good surveillance on people they were already watching. Time will tell.


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

getreal said:


> Yikes! With the amount of over-analyzing of some details and theorizing about the physics/science of the super-powers, methinks some of you folks need to just sit back, relax, suspend your disbelief, and enjoy the story. 'Cause it's all make-believe, after all! ...


I agree a little bit. I've even thought the same thing at times. You have to figure though, the type of people who take time out of their lives to hang out on a forum about TV are the same type of people who over-analyze stuff. It's in our nature, or else we wouldn't be here.


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## PeternJim (Sep 25, 2004)

jking said:


> The fact that Hiro was able to stop time for everyone except himself and Peter in the subway, though, indicates that he has some type of control over time and space, rather than simply being able to step outside of it.


Except that Peter seems top be a proximity mimic and can duplicate other people's powers, so this isn't the slam dunk it looks like. It seems to explain why Hiro went back to Peter rather than to his buddy or someone else.

This one could go either way. If Hiro, at the very beginning of figuring out his powers, can already manipulate people and things when he touches them, it is entirely possible that at a later time and skill level, he will be able to extend the "field" or whatever around anything or anyone nearby that he chooses.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

jking said:


> I agree a little bit. I've even thought the same thing at times. You have to figure though, the type of people who take time out of their lives to hang out on a forum about TV are the same type of people who over-analyze stuff. It's in our nature, or else we wouldn't be here.


I also agree a little bit.

But some folks analyze, and some folks over-analyze. Just my humble opinion.

I like to log on and read up on the discussion, then log out and get some work done. But trying to skim across hundreds of nit-picky pseudo-scientific speculations gets a bit frustrating. I love the storyline talk, though, but that's just me.

I'm trying to reserve judgment on the evil-intentions of Horned-rim glasses Step-dad and the Pixie girl and Sylar.

Oh well, you can't spell "analyze" without "anal" ...


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## PeternJim (Sep 25, 2004)

getreal said:


> I can just imagine if "Bewitched" or "I Dream of Jeannie" were brand new series, people would be all over theorizing about how their powers would "actually" work.


If they claimed that witchcraft was a result of genetic manipulation, probably so -- and deservedly so.

If they claimed it was because Samantha's parents were witches, then, maybe not so much.

Ya make the rules, ya play by the rules. We were fine overlooking (but still making fun of) the stuff that the castaways on Gilligan's Island managed to pack for a 3 hour tour, but if the castaways on that other show... ummm.... you know, the one where the plane went down......ah, well, the name escapes me..... start inventing stationary bike-powered electrical equipment or a full Broadway stage set, well, they DON'T get a pass.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

PeternJim said:


> ...but if the castaways on that other show... ummm.... you know, the one where the plane went down......ah, well, the name escapes me...


*Lost*. The name is *Lost*. Interesting thing about *Lost*: it's a lot like Heroes. I think there should be some discussion here about how much *Lost * and Heroes are alike.



Spoiler



Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost. Lost.


I just literally sprayed soda from my nose after reading that spoiler. Thank you for a good laugh at the end of a hard day!


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

mask2343 said:


> I'm betting on Nikki's alter ego being Sylar.
> 
> (Hope I didn't smeek)


Well if you had read the entire thread, then you'd *know* if you're smeeking, wouldn't you? 

Please please please - I'm begging all of you - please don't turn the Heroes threads into smeekfests like the Lost threads have become! If you want to post something so others can read it, show that same courtesy to those who posted before you and read the thread first!

Please?


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

I gotta say, the Heroes threads have definitely become very interesting reads as the show has grown. I discuss with my brother, then come here and see what you guys thought. Sometimes you guys are thinking along the same lines, sometimes you guys are totally on other tangents.

Very cool to be able to get such a broad audience of ideas and thoughts and then mull it all over in your head. And the great thing about the forums, you can just read thru at your pace. 

I hope to see some of the ideas we've read here come to fruition soon!


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## PeternJim (Sep 25, 2004)

rkester said:


> Sometimes you guys are thinking along the same lines, sometimes you guys are totally on other tangents.


Well, then, post your tangent!


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

Actualy I think almost every idea Ive had has been covered here or in previous Heroes threads. I still think its awesome to be able to get all these thoughts from others so easily. But it can be overwhelming too. I mean, the Heroes threads are kicking posts out at a rate higher than the Lost threads do now. And 300 posts is alot to go thru and read everything if you are obsessive about it.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

jking said:


> This is probably a smeek, but my first thought when I heard that conversation is that possibly Claire's "sickness" is what originally got HRG into his current line of work. Maybe he knows that Claire's body is eventually going to give out on her and what he's been trying to do is study all the others like her to try to help her. Maybe he's trying to "Save the Cheerleader" along with everyone else. Heck, maybe he's the one who gives Hiro the idea in the future.


I *love* this idea. HRG has shown nothing but affection for his daughter, and even his apparently underhanded attempt to reunite Claire with her bio-parents could be seen as an act of protection. HRG is then either an evil man but a GREAT actor, able to convince his daughter of his love for her, or he's a good man on a mission to protect his daughter by learning about others like her ...


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

getreal said:


> Yikes! With the amount of over-analyzing of some details and theorizing about the physics/science of the super-powers, methinks some of you folks need to just sit back, relax, suspend your disbelief, and enjoy the story. 'Cause it's all make-believe, after all!


Like I said last week (and I have the feeling I'll be repeating again next week  ), we're here to talk about the show, all aspects of it, including theorizing how these events may come about even though they are totally fictional. It's like talking about how you think the transporters, holodeck or warp drive may work on Star Trek.

If all we did was sit back, relax and enjoy then this thread would be nothing but an endless stream of "i love this show" and "i hate this show", and would end a few hours after the shows original air time.


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

My bro and I have discussed a similar idea bout Claires dad. We think he may be a good guy at heart. has her best interests in mind to some degree. but maybe has just gotten so used to the idea that he has the authority to do what he wants to anyone, and thats gone to his head a bit. I mean, no matter how nice of guy you are, if you have the ability to take anyone from any location quietly and return them elsewhere and they never know, thats gotta give ya a gawd complex.

I keep hoping he turns out to be good. But I have a feeling he will only become a "micheal". willing to do ANYTHING to help his kid even if it means bad bad things.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

choccy said:


> If all we did was sit back, relax and enjoy then this thread would be nothing but an endless stream of "i love this show" and "i hate this show", and would end a few hours after the shows original air time.


I couldn't disagree more, although I wasn't aware of people theorizing about the intricate workings of a holodeck. 

I was just venting about the volume of pseudo-science posts. But I'm not setting rules here or trying to be a moderator. I just needed to get my little rant off of my chest. So now I'm good. 

But there is still plenty of interesting and thought-provoking discussion about the interpersonal relationships and powers of the characters which still appeals to me -- outside of the stuff about molecules of air frozen in time or "anti-graviton particles". LOL!!

Has anybody even discussed Einstein's theory of relativity here and how that would affect time travel? If so, I'm glad I missed it.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

getreal said:


> although I wasn't aware of people theorizing about the intricate workings of a holodeck.


Really? Then you just weren't paying attention.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

rkester said:


> I gotta say, the Heroes threads have definitely become very interesting reads as the show has grown. I discuss with my brother, then come here and see what you guys thought. Sometimes you guys are thinking along the same lines, sometimes you guys are totally on other tangents.
> 
> Very cool to be able to get such a broad audience of ideas and thoughts and then mull it all over in your head. And the great thing about the forums, you can just read thru at your pace.
> 
> I hope to see some of the ideas we've read here come to fruition soon!


:up: :up:


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## painkiller (Jun 23, 2005)

From what I've been noticing, I get the distinct impression that "Dad", aka HRG guy, knows far more of what is likely going on with some of these 'heroes' than just Claire.

I pin him as something like a scientist, certainly someone who has been involved in a project that has actually resulted in these people. He just wants to find out exactly who they are.

So he's on a "quest" to gather them all up for something/some purpose.
He already "has" Claire. He tried to capture the flyer (person running for office).
Now he knows definitely there are others.

He seemed to know that Claire wasn't really telling him what was happening to her fully - he certainly noticed the bottom of her legs & feet when she got back home from the coroner's office.

I don't think any of these folks displaying these powers are results of - ahem, natural selection. Rather I would think they have been influenced/manipulated to become that way on purpose.

He knows. HRG, that is. My question is - who else knows? (that we haven't seen yet)


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

> Yeah. Mom said "We thought there might be something wrong with your chromosomes."


 This cracked me up when Claire's mother said it. I was trying to imagine a doctor saying, "You got a real funny cough there. We probably should check your chromosomes." 

For what, exactly? And do what, exactly? It just made me laugh, but in a good way.

Skipping the Einstein presentation I had all laid out for this response - _you're welcome getreal_ - the only thing I will say is that if you can bend the space/time continuum, then you have an effect on time.

My theory for why Hiro doesn't spill the beans to Peter about who the cheerleader is and where is because he *doesn't know*. In his timeline, they never found and saved her. But they know of her, and apparently realize (a little late) that they need her.

*Sigh* These people are the result of genetic mutations, all coming about at this moment in time to save the human race. Mohinder prattles on about it incessantly in the voiceovers, how could we miss it? It's not a disease, it's evolution!

And the evolution WILL be televised!


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## Roadblock (Apr 5, 2006)

jschuman said:


> I love the show, but I find the Mohinder plotline super boring - and hate, hate, hate the voice-overs from his character.


His voice-overs are approximately 10,000x better than the narrator's.


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## Roadblock (Apr 5, 2006)

Which superpower makes it night-time in Vegas while it's day-time in Texas?


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

Oh, it's always nighttime in Vegas.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

You guys have got to give up trying to make HRG some kind of noble good guy just trying to save someone or something. He is so obviously EVIL, it's not even funny! I don't care what his intentions, he has been involved in kidnapping and mind-wiping and that's just not cool on any level. The show has pretty much smacked us over the head with the fact that he is the Bad Guy and you guys are just making it way, way too complicated.

/rant


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Zevida, I think you underestimate the show. I think (hope?) that it is much more interesting than pure and simple good vs. evil.


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## ruexp67 (Jan 16, 2002)

srs5694 said:


> There was an interesting tidbit dropped in this episode that hasn't been discussed yet: After Claire's alleged bio-parents left, her (adoptive) mother told her that she'd been ill as a baby. Going on the dramatic principle that you don't put a gun on the mantlepiece unless it'll be used later in the play, this raises the question of how this illness might be related to Claire's powers.


I assumed the "illness" was a lie that HRG told to mom while he was busy ordering tests and doing research on her.


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Zevida, I think you underestimate the show. I think (hope?) that it is much more interesting than pure and simple good vs. evil.


+1

Some of the most interesting stories out there have bad guys that are kind of good and good guys that are kind of bad. If you want cut and dry Good Versus Evil then go watch superman. I like the intricacies of a story line that is not quite so black and white.


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Zevida, I think you underestimate the show. I think (hope?) that it is much more interesting than pure and simple good vs. evil.


I would agree.

I think that assuming Niki survives we're likely to see a number of shades of grey developing in her character (maybe a melding of the two personalities), and I think Dad is also in that grey area. I thought the comment about the precog (when he said "cool") made it clear he's interested in the science of these folks, and I think he really cares about Claire (he flinched when he heard "save the cheerleader, save the world). He's just in a moral grey area regarding methods.

Dad hasn't, to our knowledge, killed anyone or held anyone captive too long. And he's only wiped the smallest amount of memory necessary. Well, except for the football player, and that was just Dad taking vengance on the kid that tried to rape his daughter. His response was pretty tempered really.

My thoughts anyway.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

pkscout said:


> Dad hasn't, to our knowledge, killed anyone or held anyone captive too long. ... His response was pretty tempered really.


Ditto.

What if the HRG step-dad just wants to be the leader of the mutants? 
Nah -- there's surely a lot more to it than that.

And future Hiro with his little soul patch and black outfit and sword ... popping in on Peter Petrelli to instruct him to answer Isaac's phone and to give a message to current-Hiro ... apparently on Hiro's first time around with the whole nuclear holocaust thing, he must not have saved everybody and so he went back in time once (or more times) in order to give it another shot and correct things he missed the first (few) times.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Zevida said:


> You guys have got to give up trying to make HRG some kind of noble good guy just trying to save someone or something. He is so obviously EVIL, it's not even funny! I don't care what his intentions, he has been involved in kidnapping and mind-wiping and that's just not cool on any level. The show has pretty much smacked us over the head with the fact that he is the Bad Guy and you guys are just making it way, way too complicated.
> 
> /rant


Watch the first 3 seasons of Babylon 5 and you'll realize that "good" and "evil" aren't always so easliy identifiable.


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

painkiller said:


> From what I've been noticing, I get the distinct impression that "Dad", aka HRG guy, knows far more of what is likely going on with some of these 'heroes' than just Claire.
> 
> I pin him as something like a scientist, certainly someone who has been involved in a project that has actually resulted in these people. He just wants to find out exactly who they are.
> 
> ...


He released the cop after he examined him, so, I'm not so sure gathering them up is his purpose.


----------



## dimented (May 21, 2003)

getreal said:


> Ditto.
> 
> What if the HRG step-dad just wants to be the leader of the mutants?
> Nah -- there's surely a lot more to it than that.
> ...


Like a "Do over"?


----------



## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

busyba said:


> Watch the first 3 seasons of Babylon 5 and you'll realize that "good" and "evil" aren't always so easliy identifiable.


I've seen almost the whole series of Babylon 5.

I'm not denying that there are shades of grey and that "good" characters can do "bad" things (heck, I'm a huge fan of Jack Bauer and he practically lives in grey-land) and that "bad" characters can do "good" things. But I think at a character's core, they are one or the other, and I believe that HRG is a "bad" guy who is perhaps using some not-too-terrible methods at times; or, who believes he is in the right.

I just don't see why everyone is giving him the benefit of the doubt already. He has kidnapped at least two people and he has been responsible for both partial and complete loss of memory - and I don't care what that person did to his daughter, it is a total violation of that person's right as a human being and IMO beyond any sort of physical pain he could have applied.

I'm not wishing for transparency or lack of depth to the character - I just don't get why everyone is so excited about it being a misdirection and that he's really a good guy. I will have a very hard time accepting any transformation into a good guy based on his actions to date - it will require some pretty creative explanations on the part of the writers.


----------



## dimented (May 21, 2003)

Zevida said:


> I've seen almost the whole series of Babylon 5.
> 
> I'm not denying that there are shades of grey and that "good" characters can do "bad" things (heck, I'm a huge fan of Jack Bauer and he practically lives in grey-land) and that "bad" characters can do "good" things. But I think at a character's core, they are one or the other, and I believe that HRG is a "bad" guy who is perhaps using some not-too-terrible methods at times; or, who believes he is in the right.
> 
> ...


But most of us did not give him the benefit of the doubt right off the bat. His character has earned that over the past couple of weeks. We all thought he was bad after the first episode but are slowly starting to think he may be good. That comes from how his character acts. With me it is just a vibe he gives off and his reactions to some things. I am not totally convinced yet they he is good. And in no way do I think he is 100% good. I am just starting to think he may lean a slight more on the good side then the bad side.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Zevida said:


> I've seen almost the whole series of Babylon 5.
> 
> I'm not denying that there are shades of grey and that "good" characters can do "bad" things (heck, I'm a huge fan of Jack Bauer and he practically lives in grey-land) and that "bad" characters can do "good" things. But I think at a character's core, they are one or the other, and I believe that HRG is a "bad" guy who is perhaps using some not-too-terrible methods at times; or, who believes he is in the right.
> 
> ...


It's almost like you have family members or close friends who have had their memories wiped and so you're taking it more personally than you probably should. I mean, realistically, he didn't do anything of consequence to Officer Parker, and the rapist deserved whatever he got.


----------



## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

dimented said:


> We all thought he was bad after the first episode but are slowly starting to think he may be good. That comes from how his character acts. With me it is just a vibe he gives off and his reactions to some things.


Too funny - as for me, it is also the vibe he gives off. Complete clinical detachment from the heroes as human beings and an eagerness to do whatever it takes to get whatever he wants. An interest in the heroes abilities as a science experiment (the "cool" reaction). I tend to think these as the charicataristics of someone who is lacking in the morals department.

I did not take his reaction to the threat to Claire as fear for his daughter but rather fear for his experiment.


----------



## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

devdogaz said:


> It's almost like you have family members or close friends who have had their memories wiped and so you're taking it more personally than you probably should. I mean, realistically, he didn't do anything of consequence to Officer Parker, and the rapist deserved whatever he got.


I cannot understand how anyone can think that mind-erasing is something that is acceptable. Obviously I've never known anyone with their memory erased (or have I   ), but I think it is a primal violation of a person's identity. I am also strongly opposed to vigilante justice, so I think the rapist deserved to be punished, it was not HRG's decision to do so.

Did everyone else miss the entire storyline in Buffy where *spoilers* Willow was changing Tara's memory so that their fights would be forgotten and what a big deal it was that Willow was molding their minds to fit her vision of what the world should be? Same thing! */spoilers*


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Zevida said:


> I cannot understand how anyone can think that mind-erasing is something that is acceptable. Obviously I've never known anyone with their memory erased (or have I   ), but I think it is a primal violation of a person's identity. I am also strongly opposed to vigilante justice, so I think the rapist deserved to be punished, it was not HRG's decision to do so.


Mind-erasing isn't necessarily a bad thing.

If you could erase violent or traumatic experiences, for example -- a rape, from the victim's memory, they certainly could get on with their life a lot more easily.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Zevida said:


> Did everyone else miss the entire storyline in Buffy where *spoilers* Willow was changing Tara's memory so that their fights would be forgotten and what a big deal it was that Willow was molding their minds to fit her vision of what the world should be? Same thing! */spoilers*


That's one of my favorite episodes! Everyone ends up with amnesia and Buffy calls herself (joan?) Xander went by Alex and Anya and Jiles thought they were a couple. *sigh* I miss Buffy.

I don't think HRG had to have EVERYTHING erased. Just that past 48 hours or so would have been sufficent to protect his interest (good or evil) but I think the reason he had everything wiped out was because he was doing it partially for his cause and partially to avenge what he did to Claire. So I do think he has some fatherly feelings towards Claire.


----------



## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

Zevida said:


> I am also strongly opposed to vigilante justice, so I think the rapist deserved to be punished, it was not HRG's decision to do so.


So do you also think that Claire is bad for trying to kill the rapist via car accident?


----------



## Supfreak26 (Dec 12, 2003)

Zevida said:


> Too funny - as for me, it is also the vibe he gives off. Complete clinical detachment from the heroes as human beings and an eagerness to do whatever it takes to get whatever he wants. An interest in the heroes abilities as a science experiment (the "cool" reaction). I tend to think these as the charicataristics of someone who is lacking in the morals department.
> 
> I did not take his reaction to the threat to Claire as fear for his daughter but rather fear for his experiment.


Funny how people can watch the same show and see totally different things.

When HRG was first introduced, I thought him to be a bad guy. No question about it. But his actions since being introduced have convinced me that he's not as evil as the show first portrayed him. Some examples:

1. He didn't harm the cop. He only erased his memory so he wouldn't remember his visit with HRG. I'm thinking they just wanted to draw blood or something. If he was evil, he would've had every opportunity to do something bad to him.

2. He could've had flyboy if he really wanted him. He gave him every opportunity to escape. Maybe they just wanted to see him fly? If he really wanted to kill him he could've.

3. His "cool" reaction to the news of Hiro. He actually seemed a little giddy for a moment.

4. His genuine love for his daughter. He shows no sign of conflict with her being one of the Heroes. To me, he seems like he's trying to encourage her to share her secret with him so he can help her grow with it.

He's no saint. But neither is our future-telling-drug-addicted Hero. Nor is our crooked politician flyboy. Nor is our Kitty Pryde-wannabe prison escapee.

I'm thinking he's going to be a leader of some sort to our heroes down the road.

As for him emptying the QB's head, he deserved it. Scum like that deserve a lot worse.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

I think that HRG's erasing of Brody's mind was a little more nuanced than some are making it out to be. HRG definitely was acting as Vigilante Dad - you hurt my daughter, I hurt you. But, in addition to that, there was also a little bit of sympathy for Brody in his actions: by erasing Brody's memory completely, he was giving Brody a second chance to develop a non-rapist personality. He said as much to Brody when talking to him, as I recall. Whether its his right to do that is up for debate (as evidenced in this thread). All things considered, I think the way HRG treated Brody tips his scale closer toward Good and away from Evil.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

So niki's neck is not super powered since she couldn't just sit there and whistle while dl choked her. Therefore is her whole neck to head area her achilles heel like it might be for claire?


----------



## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> So niki's neck is not super powered since she couldn't just sit there and whistle while dl choked her. Therefore is her whole neck to head area her achilles heel like it might be for claire?


It wasn't her neck, it was her internal organs. DL strangled* her from the inside!

* strangled.. I assume. Someone else in this thread suggested that. I wasn't sure what he was doing. He may have held her heart until it stopped beating for all we know.


----------



## classicX (May 10, 2006)

scooterboy said:


> Well if you had read the entire thread, then you'd *know* if you're smeeking, wouldn't you?
> 
> Please please please - I'm begging all of you - please don't turn the Heroes threads into smeekfests like the Lost threads have become! If you want to post something so others can read it, show that same courtesy to those who posted before you and read the thread first!
> 
> Please?


Um... not when the thread is already 12 pages long. You expect every new person who has just seen the latest episode to spend an hour reading the entire thread before joining the discussion?

I don't.


----------



## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

classicX said:


> [...] You expect every new person who has just seen the latest episode to spend an hour reading the entire thread before joining the discussion? [...]


If an hour is what it takes ...


----------



## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

dswallow said:


> If you could erase violent or traumatic experiences, for example -- a rape, from the victim's memory, they certainly could get on with their life a lot more easily.


I think you are way, way off base here and I'll just leave it at that.



3d said:


> So do you also think that Claire is bad for trying to kill the rapist via car accident?


Yes, I have serious problems with Clarie because of that. However, she has demonstrated remorse and she knows she did something wrong. Just like "good" Niki knows that the actions of "bad" Niki are wrong. Both women have made bad choices but seem to be inherently good.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

HRG may do bad things, and be a bad guy in certain aspects, but i don't think he is THE bad guy of the story.

Somebody is going to set off a nuke in NYC, and i'm assuming that he is THE bad guy of the current season.

-smak-


----------



## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

smak said:


> HRG may do bad things, and be a bad guy in certain aspects, but i don't think he is THE bad guy of the story.


I can agree with that.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

smak said:


> HRG may do bad things, and be a bad guy in certain aspects, but i don't think he is THE bad guy of the story.
> 
> Somebody is going to set off a nuke in NYC, and i'm assuming that he is THE bad guy of the current season.


Maybe setting off the nuke in NYC is what they have to do in order to save the world.



...just sayin'...


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

dswallow said:


> Maybe setting off the nuke in NYC is what they have to do in order to save the world.


You obviously haven't been paying attention...

*Save the cheerleader*, save the world.

DUH!!!


----------



## LordFett (May 6, 2005)

classicX said:


> You expect every new person who has just seen the latest episode to spend an hour reading the entire thread before joining the discussion?


Or you could just keep up with it from the start. If you can't be bothered to read the thread what makes you think we can be bothered to read your response?


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

wow... more smeek debate...

read the thread... save the forum...

from smeeking.



mask2343 said:


> I'm betting on Nikki's alter ego being Sylar.
> 
> (Hope I didn't smeek)


well you did... like 10 people have said that before you. and you'll never know if it's true until you read the thread  


classicX said:


> Um... not when the thread is already 12 pages long. You expect every new person who has just seen the latest episode to spend an hour reading the entire thread before joining the discussion?


yes.

smeek prevention reduces thread size by at least 30%. and if noone smeeked, the incidence of people saying "hope i'm not smeeking" would decrease by over 90%. _source: natl journal of tcf behavior patterns_

read the thread. save the forum


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

when the thread gets over 5 pages long, there should be a multiple choice quiz that can only be aced if you've read the thread. once aced you will be allowed to post.

moderator, set that up, huh?


----------



## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

LordFett said:


> Or you could just keep up with it from the start. If you can't be bothered to read the thread what makes you think we can be bothered to read your response?


That is ridiculous.

Some of people's position on smeeking are absurd. The rest of the world does not have these stupid smeek rules. People are not required to read an entire thread before posting. People complaining about smeeking are 100 times worse and more disruptive then someone actually repeating something already discussed.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

marksman said:


> That is ridiculous.
> 
> Some of people's position on smeeking are absurd. The rest of the world does not have these stupid smeek rules. People are not required to read an entire thread before posting. People complaining about smeeking are 100 times worse and more disruptive then someone actually repeating something already discussed.


No, people who smeek are 87.3 times worse.

And my statement is obviously more scientific, because I didn't use a round number.


----------



## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

marksman said:


> That is ridiculous.
> 
> Some of people's position on smeeking are absurd. The rest of the world does not have these stupid smeek rules.


Totally not true. I don't use the word 'smeek' outside of TCF since it means nothing to anyone else, however, if someone starts talking to me about something I've already written to them about, but they didn't read it, I won't get in to a discussion with them about it until they've read what I already wrote. Why should I waste my time repeating myself over and over?



> People are not required to read an entire thread before posting. People complaining about smeeking are 100 times worse and more disruptive then someone actually repeating something already discussed.


And people are not required to read, comment on or discuss your smeek'd posts either, but they tend to reply rather than leaving you hanging out in the wind. I suppose that's their bad though.


----------



## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

Regarding the whole "good vs. evil" thing and various characters, IMHO, that's a simplistic dichotomy. In reality, few (perhaps no) people are "pure good" or "pure evil." A better approach is to think in terms of individual actions and motivations. In the case of HRG, he'd get a negative score for mind-wiping Brode and kidnapping or attempting to kidnap at least two people, a positive score for protecting his daughter, and a big question mark concerning his motivations and as-yet-unrevealed backstory and future actions. In this sort of view, characters can be overwhelmingly "good" overall but still have strong "evil" deeds to their names, or vice-versa, or have large dollops of both "good" and "evil" scores. Trying to pigeonhole such characters (or real people) as "good" or "evil" is, IMHO, an exercise in futility. Both real life and good drama are more complex than that.


----------



## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Let's see... 

Nathan is a politician. 

He cheated on his wife. 

It probably wasn't the first time he cheated.

He used his brother's "suicide" for political gain. 

He lied to his brother (initially) about his power. 

He took money from Linder. Subtract 1.

I don't think I've seen one positive for Nathan yet, so he must be evil. 

Oh wait! He gave Hiro a lift from the diner back to the strip... I guess he's not so bad after all!


----------



## cyke93 (Jan 29, 2004)

ive become a fan of this show .. but my disdain for nbc (for canceling american dreams) is still fresh in my memory.. i will not give nbc the pleasure of my season pass and my viewership.. instead.. ill just catch the show on their website


i knew from the start that chick was working with the bad guys .. her showing up at isaac's was not surprising


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

drew2k said:


> Let's see...
> 
> Nathan is a politician.
> 
> ...


He's been reasonably decent eye candy, so far, too.


----------



## dimented (May 21, 2003)

cyke93 said:


> ive become a fan of this show .. but my disdain for nbc (for canceling american dreams) is still fresh in my memory.. *i will not give nbc the pleasure of my season pass and my viewership*.. instead.. ill just catch the show on their website
> 
> i knew from the start that chick was working with the bad guys .. her showing up at isaac's was not surprising


Then don't get pissed when they cancel it. 

If you like the show support it so the rest of us that enjoy it can keep enjoying it also.


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> No, people who smeek are 87.3 times worse.
> 
> And my statement is obviously more scientific, because I didn't use a round number.


 :up: :up: :up:


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

classicX said:


> Um... not when the thread is already 12 pages long. You expect every new person who has just seen the latest episode to spend an hour reading the entire thread before joining the discussion?
> 
> I don't.


Yes, I for one do expect that. I mean, would you walk up to a group of people at a party and try to jump right in on their conversation? No. Chances are you'd make a fool of yourself, especially if you start with someone that the group already discussed like an hour ago.

Personally, I'll take a whole day if I have to (and I have before) to read a whole thread before posting my comments. IF I don't feel like reading a dozen pages of posts then no harm done to me. I just tell myself I'll join next weeks' discussion.

To me I think its just a matter of common courtesey.


----------



## dimented (May 21, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:


> Yes, I for one do expect that. I mean, would you walk up to a group of people at a party and try to jump right in on their conversation? No. Chances are you'd make a fool of yourself, especially if you start with someone that the group already discussed like an hour ago.
> 
> Personally, I'll take a whole day if I have to (and I have before) to read a whole thread before posting my comments. IF I don't feel like reading a dozen pages of posts then no harm done to me. I just tell myself I'll join next weeks' discussion.
> 
> To me I think its just a matter of common courtesey.


+1 :up: :up:

If you don't care to read what we say in the first 12 pages, why should we care to read what you say in the last!


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

cyke93 said:


> ive become a fan of this show .. but my disdain for nbc (for canceling american dreams) is still fresh in my memory.. i will not give nbc the pleasure of my season pass and my viewership.. instead.. ill just catch the show on their website


You do realize that NBC gets no pleasure or satisfaction from you setting up a SP and watching their shows on your TV, unless you're a Nielsen family. Watching on their website, on the other hand . . .



cyke93 said:


> i knew from the start that chick was working with the bad guys .. her showing up at isaac's was not surprising


Yes, it wasn't surprising to anyone since she'd just gotten off the phone with HRG who told her to pick up the painter.


----------



## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

Wow. Well I finally caught up on all of these 13 pages of posts, in addition to the actual show itself.

This is getting interesting. I was disappointed to see the little hottie Eden working with Claire's dad, but he's clearly being set up so as not to be the obvious "villain." The grayness of the characters (rather than a simple good/bad dichotomy) is rough, but improving.

I'm not a fan of the Niki storyline. But I'm somehow finding using her as the Heroes equivalent of the Incredible Hulk interesting. At least the equivalent of the crafty, smart, and self-serving gray Hulk, that is.

The cop does seem detached from the rest of the storyline. I don't think he's in another time period - sorry guys - but likely they're setting him up to provide insights into the Sylar storyline when the crew recognizes who the cheerleader is, and who the threat to her may be.

Oh, and thanks to Jyoung for posting the link to that great video.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

choccy said:


> It wasn't her neck, it was her internal organs. DL strangled* her from the inside!
> 
> * strangled.. I assume. Someone else in this thread suggested that. I wasn't sure what he was doing. He may have held her heart until it stopped beating for all we know.


I remember him having his hands on her neck. But maybe they were "inside" her neck. The internal organ squishing makes sense, though, thanks. Phew... the sword, claire's tree brain, and niki's neck, I was definitely getting a highlander vibe there.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Big_Daddy said:


> The cop does seem detached from the rest of the storyline. I don't think he's in another time period - sorry guys - but likely they're setting him up to provide insights into the Sylar storyline when the crew recognizes who the cheerleader is, and who the threat to her may be.


Yeah, I realized this the other day myself. While the cop guy was strapped to the table he does ask HRG about Claire.

Also, thanks for taking the time to read the whole thread. See, some people are capable of doing it. 



TAsunder said:


> I remember him having his hands on her neck. But maybe they were "inside" her neck. The internal organ squishing makes sense, though, thanks. Phew... the sword, claire's tree brain, and niki's neck, I was definitely getting a highlander vibe there.


I think he reached through her chest and up, out and around the neck. My opinion on that was so it would make it impossible for her to remove his hands from her in any kind of way.


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

"First Kitty Pryde, now this. Why is everyone stealing my gig?"


----------



## johnperkins21 (Aug 29, 2005)

unicorngoddess said:


> I think he reached through her chest and up, out and around the neck. My opinion on that was so it would make it impossible for her to remove his hands from her in any kind of way.


He was inside of her only halfway up his forearms (at the most), giving credence to the "squeezed her heart/lungs" argument in my mind. Anyone got a screencap?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

johnperkins21 said:


> He was inside of her only halfway up his forearms (at the most), giving credence to the "squeezed her heart/lungs" argument in my mind. Anyone got a screencap?


I thought his arms went in her abdomen, came back out through her chest and his hands were choking her neck from the outside. I guess he could have been squeezing something on the inside with his elbows  or the fact that his arms were inside her made her unable to fight back.


----------



## johnperkins21 (Aug 29, 2005)

devdogaz said:


> I thought his arms went in her abdomen, came back out through her chest and his hands were choking her neck from the outside. I guess he could have been squeezing something on the inside with his elbows  or the fact that his arms were inside her made her unable to fight back.


His hands definitely were not on her neck, from the back or otherwise. Imagine trying to do that, go through someone's abdomen, up and around to grab the back of their neck. Unless it's a small child or "little person" you'd have to be right up against them, and he was clearly leaning back with her on top. I think a photo would prove it one way or another.


----------



## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

devdogaz said:


> I thought his arms went in her abdomen, came back out through her chest and his hands were choking her neck from the outside. I guess he could have been squeezing something on the inside with his elbows  or the fact that his arms were inside her made her unable to fight back.


I just checked (I've still got it on my TiVo). It's not surprising there's confusion here, since there were continuity glitches in the scene. There were a series of intercut shots from different angles. Some showed DL reaching into Niki's chest with his right hand (presumably squeezing her heart in an attempt to kill her, or perhaps crushing her spine) and others showed him strangling her with his right hand. They went back and forth between the two types of attack, but no shot showed DL reaching into Niki's chest with his hand coming out to then strangle her, and I don't believe that would have been possible unless DL had Elastigirl-type powers. At the time I first saw it, I interpreted it as a double attack: Reach into chest with one hand and strangle with the other; but pausing on the individual shots clearly shows it was the right hand used for both attacks.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

srs5694 said:


> I just checked (I've still got it on my TiVo). It's not surprising there's confusion here, since there were continuity glitches in the scene. There were a series of intercut shots from different angles. Some showed DL reaching into Niki's chest with his right hand (presumably squeezing her heart in an attempt to kill her, or perhaps crushing her spine) and others showed him strangling her with his right hand. They went back and forth between the two types of attack, but no shot showed DL reaching into Niki's chest with his hand coming out to then strangle her, and I don't believe that would have been possible unless DL had Elastigirl-type powers. At the time I first saw it, I interpreted it as a double attack: Reach into chest with one hand and strangle with the other; but pausing on the individual shots clearly shows it was the right hand used for both attacks.


That could be it. I clearly saw his arm go through her chest, but I also clearly saw his fingers wrapped around her neck.


----------



## LordFett (May 6, 2005)

I will try and post a screencap tonight when I get home. I too thought he went in her chest and came out to choke her neck on the outside, but I didn't look that close.


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## johnperkins21 (Aug 29, 2005)

I could have sworn that it was two separate acts. The first was he was choking her. Then, the kid walked in, and he took his hands off her neck. Finally, he stuck his hands into her chest and squeezed either her heart or lungs until she collapsed (with both hands). I could be misinterpreting what I saw, but that's how I recall it.


----------



## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

johnperkins21 said:


> I could have sworn that it was two separate acts. The first was he was choking her. Then, the kid walked in, and he took his hands off her neck. Finally, he stuck his hands into her chest and squeezed either her heart or lungs until she collapsed (with both hands). I could be misinterpreting what I saw, but that's how I recall it.


Now you mention it.. I seem to recall he was choking her but with little success, and then Micah came in to the room distracting her, and that's when he changed tactics and reached inside of her to do whatever it was that he did.


----------



## Jericho Dog (Feb 10, 2006)

Sorry, I haven't read all 13 pages......

So, HRG is Claire's DAD????

Holy Frak!


----------



## johnperkins21 (Aug 29, 2005)

Ok, now I've watched it on NBC.com and see what the deal is. He did both. After fighting with her, and Micah comes in the room, he sticks his hand in her. The camera cuts away, and comes back with his arm in her abdomen, hidden by her breasts, with his wrist exposed and his hand choking her.

I definitely remembered it differently, but here are the two shots.

edit: sorry, not exactly sure how to post images inline.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Yep, that second image is the way I remembered it. I was pretty sure he did it so there would be no way she could break his hold on her.


----------



## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

Are those images in the right order?


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Jericho Dog said:


> Sorry, I haven't read all 13 pages......
> 
> So, HRG is Claire's DAD????
> 
> Holy Frak!


No he isn't. He is actually Satan. If you had read the thread you would know that.


----------



## johnperkins21 (Aug 29, 2005)

choccy said:


> Are those images in the right order?


Yes. There was actually a full on choking scene right before heroes1.jpg, but that didn't seem to be part of the confusion.

You could always go to NBC's online version and select part 6 to re-watch it. That's what I did.


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

Zevida said:


> I've seen almost the whole series of Babylon 5.
> 
> I'm not denying that there are shades of grey and that "good" characters can do "bad" things (heck, I'm a huge fan of Jack Bauer and he practically lives in grey-land) and that "bad" characters can do "good" things. But I think at a character's core, they are one or the other, and I believe that HRG is a "bad" guy who is perhaps using some not-too-terrible methods at times; or, who believes he is in the right.
> 
> ...


Well, good and bad are really shades of grey. Do I think he's good? No. Do I think he's bad? I don't know yet. I think the only way he can possibly be thought of as "good" with the little information we have is if we compare him to Nikki. Now here we have someone who's been assumed to be one of the good guys, and we find out she not only planned a heist, but slaughtered and buried her gang, then slaughtered other people who may have been witnesses. By comparison, the memory-wipe of a violent rapist ain't so bad.



Zevida said:


> I cannot understand how anyone can think that mind-erasing is something that is acceptable. Obviously I've never known anyone with their memory erased (or have I   ), but I think it is a primal violation of a person's identity. I am also strongly opposed to vigilante justice, so I think the rapist deserved to be punished, it was not HRG's decision to do so.


And you would most likely make a very fine hero.

You're absolutely right. What he did was a violation. I couldn't do something like that myself. But while I can't condone what he did, or even think of doing it myself, I can definitely sympathize with why someone would do that. People who abuse other people's rights forfeit many of their own.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

Fool Me Twice said:


> *Lost*. The name is *Lost*. Interesting thing about *Lost*: it's a lot like Heroes. I think there should be some discussion here about how much *Lost * and Heroes are alike.


Interesting. I never really thought the two shows were alike. One is interesting and fun and exciting, and the other is.... lost.

I watched Lost a couple weeks ago. I found I still had no clue as to what was happening. I felt like I did the first time I watched it when it premiered. They've concentrated on character development, and neglected to give us any kind of story. Sure the characters are all richly developed and multidimensional, but if anyone can tell me exactly what the heck is happening on that island, please do.

I'll bet you there's not a single fan out there who could.


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

Totally smeeking here, but it's more about the 13 pages of post than about the show. I will never be able to catch up to all this. I finally watched the show last night and will only say I loved it and obviously the show it catching tons of interest...... 13 pages of posts!! Wow!!


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

OK so now I'm more confused than before. Did he kill her by squeezing her neck or not? Because if he did, that just doesn't make sense if she's super hulk lady, unless her neck muscles are for some reason not super powered. I'm too lazy to look for myself. I demand you all do my work for me and agree with me even if I'm wrong.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

bobcarn said:


> Sure the characters are all richly developed and multidimensional, but if anyone can tell me exactly what the heck is happening on that island, please do.
> 
> I'll bet you there's not a single fan out there who could.


Well, if they had explained exactly what the heck is happening on that island, the show would be over. But they've made a lot more progress than some people are willing to admit.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

bobcarn said:


> but if anyone can tell me exactly what the heck is happening on that island, please do.
> 
> I'll bet you there's not a single fan out there who could.


The show is essentially about the mystery of the island. The characters' backstories are all just leading up to the big mystery that is the island. I'm of the opinion that the island itself is the main character.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, if they had explained exactly what the heck is happening on that island, the show would be over. But they've made a lot more progress than some people are willing to admit.


That's just poor planning then. Why should the show be over after the mystery is revealed? I hope Heroes doesn't take that approach. The mystery can be revealed and there can still be immense conflict left. In the case of Heroes, Sylar could be revealed to be Bob Dole and working as a secret op for the Canadian Government. The nuke could be averted and everyone could be fully trained in their powers. I'd still want to watch. If it is true that Lost would be over once the mystery is revealed, then the show is crap now and we should stop watching.


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## jpwoof (May 19, 2004)

Promo trailer with some spoilers:


Spoiler








(1) Hiro teleporting with visual effects
(2) Matt, making the water boil? not sure if it's in the same scene
(3) HRG asking Isaac for help...
(4) Claire's secret discovered by her brother
(5) etc,


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> Lost [...] the show is crap now and we should stop watching.


QFT


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

I'm confused. I thought this was the Hero's thread. Yet all I seem to be seeing is posts about Lost. Aren't there a few threads somewhere about Lost where you all can chat?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

pkscout said:


> I'm confused. I thought this was the Hero's thread. Yet all I seem to be seeing is posts about Lost. Aren't there a few threads somewhere about Lost where you all can chat?


They've been looking for a hero so they won't be lost anymore.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

They're just holding out for a hero.


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

That's what'll happen for sweeps. All the Heroes will get together and save the cast of Lost. The artist will paint a map, Peter will fly them there. Claire and Niki will help fight off the various bad things on the island while Micah builds a device to teleport them all back to civilization. The cop will weed out the 'evil' people and Hiro will freeze time and dispatch of them with his handy sword.

Save the flopping show, save the network.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I watched the replay prior to Doctor Who. He choked her. Come on hulk lady, flex your flippin neck muscles. Sheesh...


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> In the case of Heroes, Sylar could be revealed to be Bob Dole and working as a secret op for the Canadian Government. The nuke could be averted and everyone could be fully trained in their powers. I'd still want to watch.


And then Bob Dole, while being led away in handcuffs, would look towards the camera and say, "I ... I can't win!" 

And then Peter would give him a Visa Check Card. Oops, shoulda spoilered that one!


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

Sadara said:


> Totally smeeking here, but it's more about the 13 pages of post than about the show. I will never be able to catch up to all this. I finally watched the show last night and will only say I loved it and obviously the show it catching tons of interest...... 13 pages of posts!! Wow!!


not a smeek... smeeking is when you post what you think is an original thought or concept, but someone already posted before you. the more the subject has been brought up, the more flagrant the smeeking.

when you write to say general comments about the show, such as "i love the show". "i hate the show", "i want more mcboobies"... that is ok, and shouldn't fall under the definition of smeek.



choccy said:


> That's what'll happen for sweeps. All the Heroes will get together and save the cast of Lost. The artist will paint a map, Peter will fly them there. Claire and Niki will help fight off the various bad things on the island while Micah builds a device to teleport them all back to civilization. The cop will weed out the 'evil' people and Hiro will freeze time and dispatch of them with his handy sword.


Like when laverne and shirley would show up in an episode of happy days... those were the best... yeah, i know it's different networks and they were actually spinoffs...


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

I recall some discussion, somewhere in the 14 pages of this thread, about what might happen if Peter were in a room with multiple Heroes at the same time. Here's a link to a Sci-Fi Wire article where Milo Ventimiglia discusses that: http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=1&id=38795 (minor spoilers).


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## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

stiffi said:


> Come on people! It's been mentioned, you just have to put it together. Nikki might be Sylar, or at least have the same sinister powers. If that's the case, she might be able to stop the Heroes powers, just like the dude in the bar with the Cop.


I think the Mindsweeper dude in the bar was just able to block the cop's attempts at reading his thoughts. The more the cop concentrated the quieter it became in his head. Or Mindsweeper (I like that name  ) is able to an area effect "cone of silence" that blocks attempts at telepathy.


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## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

bobcarn said:


> That's the thing that I really like about this show. The characters are very multidimensional and good and evil aren't clear-clut in some cases.
> 
> Nikki... All this time, I thought she was going to be one of the heroes, but she's not. At least, I certainly hope she's not. Her superstrength alter-ego is very much a villain. No two ways about it. Now, whether or not Nikki is still alive and her evil doppleganger died is another thing. But that doppleganger is definitely NOT a good guy. Actually, I liked DL by the end of the eppy. Not a lot, and he's definitely not a good guy (planning a bank robbery pretty much means you're not good), but he's not the killer we were led to believe.
> 
> ...





Rob Helmerichs said:


> But look who she goes after. The most positive interpretation is that she is a VERY nasty vigilante.


I agree with Rob. I am not totally convince that Niki is evil. Yes her alter ego has killed a bunch of people. But they have all been in self defense (with the exception of the poker game, but do we know that she went there with the intent to kill?) and the victims have all been on the wrong side of the law. (More info in the graphic novel on NBC.com.) Plus, she seems to have done it all for Micah's sake. I think she is going to be one of those "the ends justify the means" type of heroes, at least at first, and assuming that she survived her fight with DL. If so, she will have to learn to control her violent other half. There are several heroes that have a very violent (and sometimes evil) past but still join the forces of good.


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## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

busyba said:


> Well, the top one is "the shocker", not a gang sign.
> 
> As for the bottom one, I'm not aware of which gang sign consists of attempting to lick one's own rended torso.


From Wikipedia under Similar Gestures...


> The shocker should not be confused with a similar gesture used by professional wrestler Matt Hardy. Hardy's "V1" gesture is done with the index and middle fingers separated, forming a "V", and has no sexual connotation.


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## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

I looked at the video of DL fighting with Niki several times and it is not at all clear on exactly what he was doing. At first his right hand is inside her torso up to his wrist. Then it abruptly cuts to his right hand around her throat. Then back to the torso, then back to the throat. 

Maybe the scenes with his hand around her throat were meant to be the directors way of saying that he was strangling/suffocating her internally? Other than that, I gots no clue.


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## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

I watched the scene and there's at least once or twice where, if you look quickly, you can see the hand in her torso, and around her neck at the same time. It's *very* brief, though.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

EW article containing several spoilers for the season.



Spoiler



I had to laugh when they said they insist on fast moving plotlines. Then they say that it will take all year for the Heroes to get together.


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> My point is, he's not just freezing time for the people in the room; he's freezing time for (presumably) the entire planet. Or more to the point, he's freezing time for himself.


Maybe he's speeding himself up so much that everybody else only looks like they're standing still. That's exactly how Time Stop works in D&D, which comic book fans are more likely to know about than average television writers. Moreover it doesn't require Hiro to stop time for the entire planet or universe.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

The actor who plays Hiro has the following theory (in the 'Entertainment Weekly' article on the show) about how his powers are implemented:

"Actually, I believe there's a fifth dimensional fact that allows for parallel universes to exist at the same time, in the same location. Basically, he puts himself in the sixth dimension and comes back into the current reality.... but I havent really thought about it too much."


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

busyba said:


> The actor who plays Hiro has the following theory (in the 'Entertainment Weekly' article on the show) about how his powers are implemented:
> 
> "Actually, I believe there's a fifth dimensional fact that allows for parallel universes to exist at the same time, in the same location. Basically, he puts himself in the sixth dimension and comes back into the current reality.... but I havent really thought about it too much."


He should re-watch Buckaroo Banzai.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

dswallow said:


> He should re-watch Buckaroo Banzai.


No matter where you go, there you are!!!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

betts4 said:


> No matter where you go, there you are!!!


Laugh while you can, monkey-boy.


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## LordFett (May 6, 2005)

Jericho Dog said:


> Sorry, I haven't read all 13 pages......
> 
> So, HRG is Claire's DAD????


Sorry might be smeeking, but no HRG isn't claire's father, he is Satan.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Laugh while you can, monkey-boy.


And my favorite, the last line: "Big deal."

And now, back to the matter at hand: I may be smeeking, but does anyone else think that Claire's dad is ...


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Interesting, IMDB says that Sylar was in this episode but I don't recall seeing that person. Don't go to IMDB unless you are ok with getting Sylar's identity spoiled.


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

Figaro said:


> Interesting, IMDB says that
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Personally, I would have spoilerized that entire sentence


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

choccy said:


> Personally, I would have spoilerized that entire sentence


Good for you.


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## hapdrastic (Mar 31, 2006)

TAsunder said:


> OK so now I'm more confused than before. Did he kill her by squeezing her neck or not? Because if he did, that just doesn't make sense if she's super hulk lady, unless her neck muscles are for some reason not super powered. I'm too lazy to look for myself. I demand you all do my work for me and agree with me even if I'm wrong.


Maybe she's just super strong and not super tough. Sort of the opposite of Claire, who can't die but who's only as strong as your average human.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

A lot of people seem to think Niki's dead, but there's no direct evidence for that. I mean, she could be dead, but that just doesn't make sense from a storytellling point of view. I just think D.L. gave her his version of a choke hold to render her unconcious. Heroes also has a habit of revisiting scenes like this in the following episode to show a side we didn't see the first time around, so I hope we get the whole story tonight.


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

balboa dave said:


> A lot of people seem to think Niki's dead, but there's no direct evidence for that. I mean, she could be dead, but that just doesn't make sense from a storytellling point of view. I just think D.L. gave her his version of a choke hold to render her unconcious. Heroes also has a habit of revisiting scenes like this in the following episode to show a side we didn't see the first time around, so I hope we get the whole story tonight.


I didn't think she was dead at first, but while re-watching the voiceover mentioned something about death.

But if she is dead, we'll probably still see her in flashbacks or something similar since we were never introduced to what her particular power was. We get a peek at her son's comic book cover, but have never seen her in her full Hulk persona.


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

LordFett said:


> Or you could just keep up with it from the start.


What about people who have DVRs so might not be watching the episode when it airs? Oh, nevermind, there's probably none of those folks around here.


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