# TWC Hawaii moving all HD to SDV



## HiKent

We got a letter-bomb from TWC Hawaii today saying all the HD entertainment channels are moving to SDV on Sept 24. All that's left (HD-wise) are network programming, HBO and Showtime. They also got rid of a couple of dozen SD channels for good measure.

While I love my series 3, I certainly would not have purchased it to get only HBO & Showtime. As for the network programming, here in hawaii most HD programming is broadcast SD -- we don't even get all the networks in HD.

SDV Fear, uncertainty and doom -- replaced with doom.


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## yunlin12

That really sucks! What HD channels are you going to miss out on? Have you considered complaint to the FCC and your local municipality who licenses TWC to provide cable service. That's pretty much the only thing you can do. Man that really sucks.


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## dig_duggler

That really sucks. Pretty much the worst case scenario.

Sounds like OTA or sell time.


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## is2scooby

This is ridiculous. I love my Series 3 Tivo, but there's no way it's worth the money I paid for it (~7 months ago) now that I have so few channels available to me.

I can't STAND the Oceanic DVR's though.

Argh.

What to do?


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## dolfer

Someone better get hopping on that SDV Dongle! God, I really wish Google or Microsoft or Sony would just step up and buy Tivo... Preferably Google... Someone with power who could smash these cable companies into the ground. 

No one would (or could) push Tivo/Google around! Tivo/Google would demand that an SDV workaround be freely available *before* any SDV content was released.


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## davecramer74

ebay is your friend. Might as well ebay that thing for now and pick one up off ebay once they come out with this "dongle". comcast boxes should start getting tivo software in the coming months accross the board. That should hold you over until they get some kind of standard for 2way coms.


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## MickeS

HiKent said:


> We got a letter-bomb from TWC Hawaii today saying all the HD entertainment channels are moving to SDV on Sept 24. All that's left (HD-wise) are network programming, HBO and Showtime. They also got rid of a couple of dozen SD channels for good measure.
> 
> While I love my series 3, I certainly would not have purchased it to get only HBO & Showtime. As for the network programming, here in hawaii most HD programming is broadcast SD -- we don't even get all the networks in HD.
> 
> SDV Fear, uncertainty and doom -- replaced with doom.


That stinks.

Maybe you can post a detailed list of the SDV channels and numbers in the SDV FAQ thread at the top of this forum, so they can be added to the list?


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## pashasurf7873

What a Nightmare!!!! :down:   
Woke up to this same letter of death from TWC regarding all the HD channels switching to SDV on sept 24th.
I called Tivo and gave them all the info, but they seemed clueless to the problem so far.
Got my S3 and lifetime service back in December...Now what?

Anyone know of any relevant information or possible solutions?


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## cgould

davecramer74 said:


> ebay is your friend. Might as well ebay that thing for now and pick one up off ebay once they come out with this "dongle". comcast boxes should start getting tivo software in the coming months accross the board. That should hold you over until they get some kind of standard for 2way coms.


No comcast in Hawaii, it's TWC Oceanic only. 
OTA is nearly impossible also due to iron-rich mountains, cable only for much of the island(s).
Can't get much DirectTV/Dish either (esp HD) since the birds are overhead and pointing to mainland, not the islands. eg, paradise is screwed 

Many Hawaii local (network) stations don't even carry HD (OTA or cable) partly due to this, and complain about cost of HD tape-delay hardware, as HiKent says... so for all TWC's exorbitant HD service fee/cablecard costs, you can't even get most network channels in HD.
At least w/ the SA box, you can plug in external drives  (that quickly die in the tropical heat, but..)

HiKent, can you clarify what (specific) "HD entertainment channels" are?
eg DiscoveryHD, HDNet, EPSNHD, etc?


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## HiKent

The HD channels we're losing are -- all of them. ESPN, Nat'l Geo, HDNET, HDNET MOvies, MoJo, (already lost ESPN2), Discovery, Unviversal HD, HD Golf/Verses, everything.

Except HBO/Showtime (maybe that was a typo) and the network channels that I've read they're not allowed to move to SDV.


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## pashasurf7873

here's the list of hd channels Tivo will lose on sept 24th:

1216
1226
1347
1355
1603
1561
1222
1224
1605

http://www.oceanic.com/OceanicWebApps/Television/DigitalServices/DCL_Oahu.html


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## ddubois

Copied from Time Warners mailing to our home:

46 C-SPAN3
47 C-SPAN-2
102 Jewelry Channel
117 CNBC World
118 Bloomberg TV
120 Pentagon Channel
121 The Weather Channel
130 KAOM
132 AZN TV
134 Imaginasian
212 The Outdoor Channel
241 Fuel
242 NBA TV
243 The Tennis Channel
244 Fox College Sports - Atlantic
245 Fox College Sports - Central
246 Fox College Sports - Pacific
247 College Sports TV
349 Ocean Network
410 Inspirational TV
587 Country Music TV
589 VH1 Classic
597 BET On Jazz
599 Fuse
608 Ovation
689 Galavision
690 Fox Sports World Espanol
691 CNN Espanol
690 Fox Spors World Espanol
691 CNN Espanol
692 Discovery en Espanol
693 ESPN Deportes
699 Chinese Channel
1216 HD Gold/HD Versus
1226 HD FSN
1347 HD National Geographic
1355 HD Net
1603 HD Net Movies
1561 iNDemand HD
1222 ESPN HD
1224 ESPN2 HD
1605 HD Universal


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## CharlesH

dolfer said:


> Someone better get hopping on that SDV Dongle!


The OP is really going to need the solution described in this thread. But who knows when it will be available.....


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## Sy-

http://64.128.14.168/otw/otw_sdv.pdf This link to my letter that I posted in the TWC thread...

Anyone know what I could get for my S3 on ebay:
S3 with 500 gig upgraded drive and Lifetime service?


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## yunlin12

dolfer said:


> Someone better get hopping on that SDV Dongle! God, I really wish Google or Microsoft or Sony would just step up and buy Tivo... Preferably Google... Someone with power who could smash these cable companies into the ground.
> 
> No one would (or could) push Tivo/Google around! Tivo/Google would demand that an SDV workaround be freely available *before* any SDV content was released.


Google would've probably just wired their own cable network, like they are wiring the whole city of SF for wireless. Who needs to partner with the telecom giants when you are Google.


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## pashasurf7873

Anyone gotten any information from Tivo regarding what options their customers in Hawaii have?(or anyone facing cable co switch to sdv)


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## HiDefGator

pashasurf7873 said:


> Anyone gotten any information from Tivo regarding what options their customers in Hawaii have?(or anyone facing cable co switch to sdv)


You mean as far as letting you out of your commitment? There is no work around available today and I doubt you will have a fix in your hands this year.


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## GoHokies!

That really sucks. 

I've added this to the SDV sticky FAQ.


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## gwsat

Although Cox OKC is still representing that the HD channels they will be adding next month wont be SDV, its clear to me that before long virtually all HD transmissions from cable companies everywhere will be SDV.

Long experience watching the development of vaporware of all kinds has led me to the dreary conclusion that we wont see the USB dongle SDV fix for S3 And THD very soon, if ever.

In short, the rest of we S3 and THD owners are as firmly behind the 8 ball as you TWC Hawaii subscribers are.


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## nhaigh

gwsat said:


> ....its clear to me that before long virtually all HD transmissions from cable companies everywhere will be SDV...


I don't completely agree with this point of view. The SDV problem will be different in each market. The cable companies will move only the channels that are not used all the time to SDV otherwise they get no advantage. In some markets the HDTV take-up (and cablecard) will very small and the HD channels become prime candidates for SDV. In other markets HD Channels are in higher demand so other channels will be more suited to SDV. The more a channel is viewed the less likely it will be to go SDV. I expect we'll see a different sets of channels in each market, some HD and some not. I think we'll also see more markets going the Chicago route and remove analogue channels to get bandwidth back.

Another factor os FIOS. I think we'll see less SDV roll-out in the FIOS markets because it will drive people to the competition.


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## brianlees

Not that it will really do any good. However, you should contact your US Senators and representative and your state reps as well. Hawaii might be in a more unique situtation compared to other states. OTA broadcasts do stink (I have been there four times and can speak from experience). Since this is the case, perhaps there is some leverage that can be used, either to delay the switch over or to get the FCC off their a$$es and actually give a crap about the people they server. Oh, that's right, they do care about the people they server...or should I say companies?!


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## JoeSchueller

I wished I shared this rosy point-of-view. SDV provides some bandwidth savings to the provider (including FIOS providers) and it is entirely reasonable that they will move as much as feasible in this direction. Bandwidth is a vacuum - as soon as more is created, it is used. SDV executed right saves bandwidth, thus will be used extensively. The only good news is that it makes less sense to have popular channels on it, but smaller channels are most likely doomed.

It also makes business sense to lock you back in to their boxes. That way they can charge higher rental rates and pimp VOD and PPV at you all the time. This is likely a losing battle unless the gov't mandates otherwise.


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## HiDefGator

nhaigh said:


> I think we'll see less SDV roll-out in the FIOS markets because it will drive people to the competition.


Wouldn't the only people that care if they get SDV or not today be the Tivo S3 owners? There are not enough of them to affect deployment of SDV. Kind of like a tiny little pimple on the ...


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## jfh3

HiDefGator said:


> Wouldn't the only people that care if they get SDV or not today be the Tivo S3 owners? There are not enough of them to affect deployment of SDV. Kind of like a tiny little pimple on the ...


And Sony DHG users and anyone that has a CableCARD installed in their TV.


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## sfhub

HiDefGator said:


> Wouldn't the only people that care if they get SDV or not today be the Tivo S3 owners? There are not enough of them to affect deployment of SDV. Kind of like a tiny little pimple on the ...


Any one who is using a QAM tuner would care. If the channels that are moved happen to only include encrypted channels, then only people with QAM + CableCARD would care (because the moved channels wouldn't have been visible before or after the change to SDV)


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## HiDefGator

So across the whole country there are maybe a few hundred thousand people that would be impacted by SDV if it went nationwide tomorrow. I guess that explains why they are working so hard on alternative solutions to SDV.


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## MickeS

HiDefGator said:


> So across the whole country there are maybe a few hundred thousand people that would be impacted by SDV if it went nationwide tomorrow. I guess that explains why they are working so hard on alternative solutions to SDV.


But these are vocal people.


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## sfhub

HiDefGator said:


> So across the whole country there are maybe a few hundred thousand people that would be impacted by SDV if it went nationwide tomorrow. I guess that explains why they are working so hard on alternative solutions to SDV.


Apparently a few hundred thousand people can occupy Iraq, imagine what they could do to TWC


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## Sy-

FWIW... I just talked to a Tivo rep to cancel service on my S1 Tivo because my $800 Lifetime S3 Tivo is going to replace my S1 when Oceanic flips the SDV switch on Sept 24  . I was told me that those channels that Oceanic are designating SDV will not go black because they are mandated by the FCC to provide, via digital cable cards, ANY channel that is available on Oceanic's digital set top box. I was unconvinced, but he insisted that that is the case. I already returned my cable cards for Oceanics crappy HD DVR. But it will be interesting to see if he is right. Those of you that still have your cablecards keep me posted.
~Sy-


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## Goldwing2001

Sy - I spoke to a TiVo Rep on Saturday and he told me that I would not be able to receive the Oceanic channels switching to SDV. He told me they're in the works of making a device that would connect between the cable line and a TiVo's box USB port to act as a two-way device needed to acces SDV channels. When and how much this device will be available is unknown, but, probably next year some time.


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## Sy-

Goldwing2001 said:


> Sy - I spoke to a TiVo Rep on Saturday and he told me that I would not be able to receive the Oceanic channels switching to SDV. He told me they're in the works of making a device that would connect between the cable line and a TiVo's box USB port to act as a two-way device needed to acces SDV channels. When and how much this device will be available is unknown, but, probably next year some time.


Yea... I knew that... Funny how not all the CSR's are working off the same playbook.


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## pashasurf7873

It's happening... even though the switchover to sdv in Hawaii is supposed to happen on the 24th, universal hd and various sports channels like Fuel are no longer available. 
Contacted Tivo about the eneral SDV problem and they just say that Tivo is hard at work to come out with an 'external device' to solve the problem. How long do you suppose that will take??


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## is2scooby

We're already starting to lose channels? 

I can't imagine going back to an Oceanic DVR, but what choice do I have with my Tivo 3 being useless? Grrr.


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## HiKent

Did you notice how Universal HD and FoxSportsHD went to "Channel Unavailable?" -- unlike when we lost ESPN2HD this spring -- when that channel just went blank. My theory is they just took ESPN2HD out of the cablecard lineup for not technical reason -- other than it was fun for them to mess with cablecard users.


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## pashasurf7873

FWIW I just noticed that both Universal HD and Fuel are back in the lineup. 
Now just hope for a miracle on Sept 24th.


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## HiKent

Does anyone know if TWC changed their mind, or is a week from Monday still D-Day?


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## is2scooby

I am crossing my fingers. I can't stand the thought of going without my Tivo 3... GRRR.


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## is2scooby

Are there any Hawaii residents monitoring this thread that are articulate and focused enough to write a 'letter to the editor' type of piece for the different papers? (Advertiser, Star Bulletin, MidWeek, etc.)?


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## pashasurf7873

I have written the fcc and local regulator, no response yet...I suppose a letter to the editor couldn't hurt. with 4 days to go til the big Hawaii HD shut out, it may be too late.
this whole experience and the thought of going back to TWC DVR is depressing. :down:


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## hddude55

This is very disturbing. I have a series 2 that is becoming problematic and was considering a second series 3, but would have to be a dunce to buy a second one until this matter is resolved. I am very surprised TiVo has recently introduced a second hdtv model without addressing this situation. Sales certainly must be suffering on both hdtv models, unless people are clueless.


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## Hyrax

hddude55 said:


> ...I am very surprised TiVo has recently introduced a second hdtv model without addressing this situation. Sales certainly must be suffering on both hdtv models, unless people are clueless.


I disagree, a TvioHD can be got for a couple of hundred and change - a bargain even if you only get OTA HD (like I do). On the other hand, S3 sales could well suffer until they announce their SDV solution.

Myself, I'd buy a S3 tomorrow (with the $200 discount) if I had more than 1 TV in my house.


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## MickeS

hddude55 said:


> This is very disturbing. I have a series 2 that is becoming problematic and was considering a second series 3, but would have to be a dunce to buy a second one until this matter is resolved. I am very surprised TiVo has recently introduced a second hdtv model without addressing this situation. Sales certainly must be suffering on both hdtv models, unless people are clueless.


Of course people are clueless. Why would they even suspect that they can't get the channels they pay for, using the federally regulated hardware?


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## jsnow789

I don't know... Kevin Martin seems like he is pretty much doing everything he can to make sure we are NOT locked into a stb. 

I think letters to the FCC are VERY important and specifically sent to him. Use the link in the 'Who Killed Tivo to Go' thread to send an email about SDV. While it may not help in the immediate case for TWC in Hawaii, it may help get the USB solution to the market faster, esp if it means they are not fined for violations (which I think TWC are in line for).

(can't direct link just yet  )


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## lew

SDV allows a cable system to offer more channels within the bandwidth available.

Every customer that doesn't use a cc DVR (and the few that use a cable card TV) benefits from SDV. What % of users are in each category? Do you think even 1% of the customers currently use cable cards? 

Customers can complain but I suspect the response will be something like this change allows us to offer more channles to more then 99% (lower this % to whatever number you think is applicable) of our customers.


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## is2scooby

1 hour until D Day.


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## renkablue

yunlin12 said:


> Google would've probably just wired their own cable network, like they are wiring the whole city of SF for wireless. Who needs to partner with the telecom giants when you are Google.


Interesting that you post that Google is wiring SF for wireless....Verizon has a contract with the City of Houston (Texas) for the whole city to be wired wireless.
It's not in place yet, but it will be interesting to see this....apparantly this type of service is happening throughout the major cities. 

Not Verizon - it is Earthlink


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## pashasurf7873

Well, the 24th is behind us and my HD channels are still working. Yesterday was to be the D-day in Hawaii for Tivo S3 and HD owners... 

Keeping fingers crossed for a miracle.


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## s1_junkie

Yesterday I visited my local TWC office in Kona (Big Island, HI) to grovel for a CableCard appointment and to sign up for TWC's HDTV package. SDV has not been implemented in Kona.

I was told TWC no longer sell the combination CableCard and HDTV . Seems like a clear violation of the intent of both the FCC mandate on HDTV and the FCC mandate on CableCard.

If anybody is having similar problems, the Hawaii State, Department of Commerce, CATV section has a web complaint form. Google for 'hawaii state cable television division complaint' (I am a new member and am not allowed url's).


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## quick

This is not completely related to this thread but may be of interest (if it's not known already).

I was talking with TiVo level 2 tech support last night (waited 1hr on hold), had a big list of questions...

I asked about SDV and is it a hardware limitation of the TiVo that would not support it or software, then I asked: Does the TiVo HD have the hardware capability to send data out.

She was kind of vague but said this.. : We are working on a solution for this and it would be some kind of *adapter* since it would be a hardware limitation that would plug into the unit.

How it would plug in or if this is just BS I don't know... the lady actually hung up on me after asking about TiVo to go... lol. I think I asked one too many questions...


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## HiDefGator

search for usb dongle and you should find the threads talking about it. I believe the dongle has to come from the cable company and may need to be different for each cable company out there. i'll be surprised if you see the dongle this year.


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## s1_junkie

Just had a 3 way conversation with a level 2 Tivo person and an Oceanic Time Warner Cable drone.

1) TWC confirmed CableCard and HDTV combination no longer available for purchase, Tivo person escalated the issue to Tivo Corporate, will update you all when more info is available.

2) Drone said CableCard and HDTV combination will cease to work in a couple of weeks, claimed it was a "bidirectional issue", but not SDV (hey, it was a drone).



s1_junkie said:


> Yesterday I visited my local TWC office in Kona (Big Island, HI) to grovel for a CableCard appointment and to sign up for TWC's HDTV package. SDV has not been implemented in Kona.
> 
> I was told TWC no longer sell the combination CableCard and HDTV . Seems like a clear violation of the intent of both the FCC mandate on HDTV and the FCC mandate on CableCard.
> 
> If anybody is having similar problems, the Hawaii State, Department of Commerce, CATV section has a web complaint form. Google for 'hawaii state cable television division complaint' (I am a new member and am not allowed url's).


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## camtui

s1_junkie said:


> Just had a 3 way conversation with a level 2 Tivo person and an Oceanic Time Warner Cable drone.
> 
> 1) TWC confirmed CableCard and HDTV combination no longer available for purchase, Tivo person escalated the issue to Tivo Corporate, will update you all when more info is available.
> 
> 2) Drone said CableCard and HDTV combination will cease to work in a couple of weeks, claimed it was a "bidirectional issue", but not SDV (hey, it was a drone).


Yet their site still claims that they offer it? http://www.oceanic.com/OceanicWebApps/Television/DigitalServices/CableCard.html TWC is killing me! I'm waiting for cable cards as well. I'm just waiting for the S3 to support M cards so that I don't have to pay duplication charges. But who knows what TWC has up their sleeves!


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## s1_junkie

I just noticed that TWC's "Important Notice to CableCARD Customers" says on the first line:
"September 24, 2007 these channels will only be available with a digital set top box or a two way CABLECARD with a two way device".

So I asked TWC for a two way CABLECARD, the response was unsurprisingly : "No, we don't have those".


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## HiKent

s1_junkie,

If TiVo corporate gets back to you, could you also have them check why we don't get the music & radio channels. At least here on Oahu the only way to listen to the radio is via TWC. Since they charge us full price (and then some), why block the radio?

Given the choice, I'd pick the HDTV -- but I'd like both.


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## s1_junkie

HiKent said:


> s1_junkie,
> 
> If TiVo corporate gets back to you, could you also have them check why we don't get the music & radio channels. At least here on Oahu the only way to listen to the radio is via TWC. Since they charge us full price (and then some), why block the radio?
> 
> Given the choice, I'd pick the HDTV -- but I'd like both.


HiKent,

I'd like to clarify, not sure I get the question, by music and radio channels do you mean:

A) TWC channels 800 -> 882 and marketed as "Music Choice", and are you saying Tivo/CableCard wont play them, or TWC has totally disabled them, or you dont want to rent an extra cable box just for your radio, or something I missed?

B) The analog radio signal (e.g. on Big Island a plain old radio with its antenna in the cable socket and tuned to 89.30MHz plays KHPR) which stop working every now and then, I call TWC, TWC says it is not supported and then it starts working again. (I have heard this is only available in rural areas)

C) Something else.


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## HiKent

Hi,

It's the Music Choice + radio rebroadcast I'm talking about. From what I've read in this forum, the other TWC areas are able to receive them with cablecards. But Oceanic blocks reception. My Series 3 seems to tune, but they seem to be encrypted. (With SA cablecards it's hard to tell.) They charge us (twice!), so why block them? I'm told to not use cablecards & I'll get them fine. Maybe TiVo lawyers will be able to get a more reasonable explanation.


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## lobrien

@S1_Junkie: Are you saying that here in Kona we can still use Tivo for HDTV somehow? I just got my Tivo HD today and was shocked to discover this whole "SDV" thing. I thought this was the entire point of cablecard, but the person I talked to at TWC said "CableCards only work with standard definition." The arrival of Tivo HD was a major part of my decision to buy a freaking HDTV and now it's worth nothing? I am totally f***ing pissed off.


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## s1_junkie

lobrien said:


> @S1_Junkie: Are you saying that here in Kona we can still use Tivo for HDTV somehow? I just got my Tivo HD today and was shocked to discover this whole "SDV" thing. I thought this was the entire point of cablecard, but the person I talked to at TWC said "CableCards only work with standard definition." The arrival of Tivo HD was a major part of my decision to buy a freaking HDTV and now it's worth nothing? I am totally f***ing pissed off.


1) In terms of HDTV and CableCard 'working' and 'today', my understanding is that everything works (except music channels).

2) I ordered HDTV and CableCards from TWC (for new TivoHD), my cards will be installed in 3 weeks (grrr.) however TWC will not sell me the HDTV package (no supporting paperwork yet).

3) HiKent has pointed out that the Music Choice and radio channels are not supported for CableCard. Camtui pointed to the TWC CableCard web site that shows this, and also that TWC does support CableCard and HDTV!

4) Some time in the near future TWC will make 10 HDTV channels unavailable (along with about 30 other channels). Ask TWC for a copy of "Important Notice for CableCard Customers".

5) My understanding is that this is an Oceanic TWC policy issue, in most of the rest of country this is not currently an issue. It seems to me that Oceanic TWC is trying to create a walled garden, despite the FCC CableCard mandate. The dweebs are of course clueless, we all know what happened to AOL's walled garden. But in the interim we CableCard customers will feel the pain.

6) If you dont like this TWC policy please complain to State regulators (regulators will only pay attention if they get a lot of complaints), and call Tivo and ask for help dealing with TWC. It is in TiVo's interest to support us, Tivo has a big problem if this stupidity propagates through the rest of the country.

Would have been nice if I could have given you a one line response, but this is at the moment an ongoing story. Please participate.


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## lobrien

s1_junkie said:


> in the near future TWC will make 10 HDTV channels unavailable (along with about 30 other channels).


Other than premium and ppv, there are only 15 HD channels that TWC provides today. Do we know which 5 are going to be available for CableCard/Tivo HD?



s1_junkie said:


> If you dont like this TWC policy please complain to State regulators (regulators will only pay attention if they get a lot of complaints), and call Tivo and ask for help dealing with TWC.


Happily. Do you know the appropriate state regulatory body?


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## ADent

I would complain to your Senators and House Rep. 

SDV is a real violation of the spirit of Cable Card rules that the FCC has been working on for years and the FCC should be spanked for allowing it.


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## pashasurf7873

not sure why TWC has extended the SDV implementation from sept 24th. TWC rep told me the new D-Day is going to be oct 9th.


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## s1_junkie

lobrien said:


> Other than premium and ppv, there are only 15 HD channels that TWC provides today. Do we know which 5 are going to be available for CableCard/Tivo HD?


No HD channels will be available, TWC will not sell the HDTV package to new CableCard customers (despite what is says on TWC web site, call and try to buy). Post #12 in this thread has a list for existing customers, but that list is subject to change.



lobrien said:


> Happily. Do you know the appropriate state regulatory body?


http://www.hawaii.gov/dcca/areas/catv/complaint/

This initiates a process, sadly do not expect 'Super Regulator' to come flying out of a phone booth as soon as your fax arrives. It is of course still important.

And talk to a manager (or three) at TWC.


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## s1_junkie

An update for you all :

1) State regulator called "will talk to TWC".

2) Tivo called, "is working on the issue".

3) TWC emailed, no change in position except for a bizzare offer that sadly TWC probably thinks is a good deal! Body of e-mail follows:

----------------------------------email start--------------------------------------------
Aloha, I have spoken with The Director of Customer Service, the Big Island will continue to comply with our divisional directives. We would like to offer you some alternatives that we will keep in place until two way devices such as TV and TiVo are available for public purchase. 

Offer 
Box (s) at cable card rate $ 2.40 
FREE- IPG w/music choice
Free DVR for 1 TV

The box will give you the ability to order:
Pay Per View
On Demand Movies
Interactive Guide

The solutions offered will give you more ability. It was recommended, if applicable, for consumers to take advantage of TiVo's 30-day Return plan . Later when TiVo comes out with a two way solution, you will be able to get all the benefits and two way abilities.

Please keep in mind that HDTV Broadcast channels can still be view with your one way cable card. Also if your HDTV has a built in tuner you can view the HD Broadcast channels. Our HD Entertainment Pak can not be viewed with out the cable box. 

IF you would like to take advantage of our offer, please let me know and I will assist in helping to get everything set up for you. Again we thank you for your continued support.

Mahalo,
--------------------------------------email end--------------------------------------------

On further examination of the TWC web site I see that the local TV stations (as HDTV) are not included in the HD Entertainment Pak (or for that matter any other package including standard). 

Needless to say the offer is not appealing to me.

Please express your opinions to the state regulator.


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## moyekj

All things considered that's not a bad gesture from TWC - they could have just said screw you and offered you nothing. Nevertheless I agree it's a big step down in functionality - I think you also need to lobby Tivo/Cable hard to get that dongle solution out sooner than later...


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## Icarus

I just noticed this thread today. Apparently the rollout excludes Maui for now. I haven't received anything yet, and I just checked the last two bills online, and there was nothing there. I take it most of you are on Oahu, and one of you that can't get them to sell you the CC is on the Big Island? BTW, I think you should try them without the HD Ent. Pack. You might be surprised.

I'm going to email Nick and ask him if/when they plan on rolling it out on Maui.

As I'm sure you know, you can get some sat service on the islands, from either DirecTV or Dish, but their offerings aren't that good.

I never tried tuning into the music channels (I even uncheck all of them in the channel list), but I tried tonight .. I get nothing on my S3. The OTW HD DVR in the living room gets them all just fine.

For the long term, I was reading an article that Haw. Tel. has an application in to offer tv service. I guess it will be FIOS? I'm sure we won't see it for a couple of years, and then probably on Oahu first.

-David


----------



## Icarus

Got a quick reply from Nick S.



> Aloha!
> 
> SDV is already released on Oahu. It will be rolled out to all areas of
> Hawaii soon. The entire HD Entertainment package will be on SDV.
> 
> We do have multi-stream 2 way cards available. But until the TiVo S3
> supports them, they won't do any good.


Well, no dates or timeframe for Maui. Only the vague "soon".

I wonder if the S3 and THD are even capable of supporting 2-way m-cards with a software update? Is that possible?

Bummer.

-David


----------



## CharlesH

Icarus said:


> wonder if the S3 and THD are even capable of supporting 2-way m-cards with a software update? Is that possible?


All m-cards are two way. The S3 and THD aren't, and don't have the hardware to do it, due to unreasonably licensing requirements (the only way TiVo could provide two-way was to run the cable company user interface). But there is a USB attachment that the cable companies agreed to that will let SDV (but not PayPerView or OnDemand) work, but when it will be available hasn't been announced. See the SDV FAQ thread.


----------



## Icarus

Yeah, I read the FAQ after I posted that question. Thanks. I should have read it first.

-David


----------



## s1_junkie

Three and a half weeks after ordering, my cable cards arrived. TWC plugged them into my TiVoHD and nothing happened. (Presumably because the TWC guy had had no CableCard training, and plugged both cards in at the same time).

A few hours later he returned with an MCard! Plugged it in and it just worked. Although it took another 2.5 hours to find somebody at the 'head end' who had sufficient security authorization ("level 5") to turn it on.

Not much to tell you about SDV as it is not yet implemented on the Big Island. I am told that HD KHON, HD KITV, HD KHNL, HD KHET, HD Discovery, and HD TNT, at least, are not included in the HD Entertainment Pak and are/will be available to CableCard users.

This in an e-mail from TWC on Thursday:

A) "One-way cable cards and one-way TVs will not have the ability to receive Pay Per View, On Demand, two way channels, Sports Pak, Chinese channel, Spanish Pak and HD Entertainment Pak. Two way channels are shown in the grid and subject to change.. ".

B) "Moving channels over to a two-way digital platform is needed to efficiently deliver more programming. We will not be able to wait, as there is a need to add more programming".

C) "Video & audio channel transmitted on Oceanic TWC using a bidirectional electronic protocol is considered by Oceanic TWC as two-way programming, such as SD" ([clarification by s1_junkie]: two way-programming does not have to be interactive programming)

I'm now curious about the schedule for the USB plugin "Tuning Resolver" 
( see page 32 of http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6519612942)


----------



## is2scooby

I can't stand the fact that I have so many blank grey screens greeting me when I flip through the channels.

I've given in and called up Oceanic to get them to come out and put in a OTW HD-DVR.

I think it's going to take a while to get used to life without a Tivo.


----------



## HiDefGator

is2scooby said:


> I think it's going to take a while to get used to life without a Tivo.


You've made it past denial, that was the first step.


----------



## m_jonis

s1_junkie said:


> I'm now curious about the schedule for the USB plugin "Tuning Resolver"
> ( see page 32 of http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6519612942)


As much as I hate to say it, anyone who think there will be a USB dongle or anything else any time in the near future is sadly mistaken.

The cable companies dragged their feet on cable card, you think they're magically going to release something that will let a third party utilize their SDV?

Ha!

If you read carefully they do not state anywhere that such a device is even ready, just that one "can be made". I'm sure that a cold-fusion device "can be made" too. Notice the lack of a timeframe.

I highly doubt anything will be shipping in 2-3 years.


----------



## is2scooby

Pulled out the Tivo and installed a Oceanic Explorer 8300HD yesterday.

YUCK.

Image quality is fine, but the interface is TERRIBLE. *sigh*


----------



## jrm01

m_jonis said:


> As much as I hate to say it, anyone who think there will be a USB dongle or anything else any time in the near future is sadly mistaken.
> 
> The cable companies dragged their feet on cable card, you think they're magically going to release something that will let a third party utilize their SDV?
> 
> Ha!
> 
> If you read carefully they do not state anywhere that such a device is even ready, just that one "can be made". I'm sure that a cold-fusion device "can be made" too. Notice the lack of a timeframe.
> 
> I highly doubt anything will be shipping in 2-3 years.


I'm standing by my prediction of before the end of March 2008 as the date. I think that the new cooperation-mode between TiVo and Comcast is going to help this.


----------



## MickeS

jrm01 said:


> I'm standing by my prediction of before the end of March 2008 as the date. I think that the new cooperation-mode between TiVo and Comcast is going to help this.


Why that date?


----------



## HiKent

October 29 Update.

We got another letter from TWC saying the new D-Day (all HD going to SDV) is now next Tuesday (November 6). Is this also a bluff? What did TiVo legal figure out.

Only HD left is broadcast, HBO & Showtime.


----------



## fofy21

is2scooby said:


> Pulled out the Tivo and installed a Oceanic Explorer 8300HD yesterday.
> 
> YUCK.
> 
> Image quality is fine, but the interface is TERRIBLE. *sigh*


 I know this is off topic, but....

What software does the OTW Explorer 8300HD run (SARA or Passport)?

On topic: Why couldn't TIVO had come up with the agreement with TWC rather than Comcast?!?! I miss my TIVO.


----------



## s1_junkie

HiKent - nothing from TiVo legal for a few weeks, last I heard from TiVo they were working on it which would take some time.

My TiVoHD gets the same HD channels as yours (local TV + Showtime + HBO if I wanted it).

Talked to the HI state regulator today, trying to light a fire.

Have been having an e-mail dialog with a TWC person on Oahu, like pulling hens' teeth. This is my current understanding and opinion:

Historically cable card support was split by the FCC into 'one-way' (regular TV) and 'two-way' (Interactive, eg PPV). Support for the former is required now, and the later not yet.

So the question to answer is "is SDV two-way?". TWC say yes, so Cablecard support not required by TWC. I say no because only TWC's internal electronic protocols are two-way, from the users point of view it is one-way.

The issue seems to be: what does 'two-way' mean? Does it mean Interactive (i.e. involving the TV viewer and cable co.) or Interoperable (ie involving set top box and cable co.).

My contention is that two-way means Interactive, but not Interoperable (so SDV is not two-way and must be supported) because :

1) According to this FCC document http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6519612942 (page 32 "II. SWITCHED DIGITAL VIDEO MODIFICATIONS") : "In order to address this issue, the cable industry has worked with CE companies such as TiVo to arrive at a solution that can provide two-way SDV channels to one-way digital cable products through an external device attachment to the UDCP."
Pretty clear to me that SDV is a special case of one-way, and must be supported.

2) If SDV were two-way, then some imaginary and evil cable company could make all channels SDV and so totally bypass the CableCard requirement. There is a CableCard requirement, so SDV can not be two-way.

Separately and in my opinion, since SDV is introduced to meet TWC's need for increased efficiency, and the resulting loss of channels removes service from CableCard users. In order to make CableCard users whole, TWC should offer Tuning Resolvers free of charge at it's offices and reference this offer on it's web site. After all on the web site TWC does offer 100% CableCard satisfaction, not 75% satisfaction (or what ever the percentage of non-SDV channels happens to be). As I say, in my opinion; but it seem a reasonable request.


----------



## jrm01

MickeS said:


> Why that date?


Why I pick the end of first quarter of 2008:

1. Tivo says:


> Great progress has been made and the National Cable & Telecommunications Association (NCTA) revealed the solution in a filing with the FCC. The agreed-upon solution is a small external adapter, called a tuning resolver, which will attach to the back of the CableCARD device and enable two-way communication with the cable headend so that switched digital channels can be received by TiVo products.
> 
> We expect the adapter to be available to consumers before switched digital becomes widely deployed


2. The FCC says:



> In order to address this issue, the cable industry has worked with CE companies such as TiVo to arrive at a solution that can provide two-way SDV channels to one-way digital cable products through an external device attachment to the UDCP


3. TiVo and Comcast are cooperating much more on shared concerns.

4. SDV is becoming widely deployed

5. The technology is not rocket science

6. That's when I come back from Florida every year.


----------



## MickeS

jrm01 said:


> Why I pick the end of first quarter of 2008:
> 
> 1. Tivo says:
> 
> 2. The FCC says:
> 
> 3. TiVo and Comcast are cooperating much more on shared concerns.
> 
> 4. SDV is becoming widely deployed
> 
> 5. The technology is not rocket science
> 
> 6. That's when I come back from Florida every year.


#6 sold me. 

I hope you're right. Maybe then I'd go back to getting the HD package from TWC.


----------



## ddubois

Adding HD TNT and HD TBS to the list of killed channels is a real kick in the nads.


----------



## jesseramos

I have enough Tivo Rewards points to get a TivoHD. Some of those points expire in a couple of days. I was hoping for better news regarding SDV before then so I could get rid of the TW 8300.

Guess I'll get the 80GB iPod instead, even though it's an older generation one.


----------



## MickeS

jesseramos said:


> I have enough Tivo Rewards points to get a TivoHD. Some of those points expire in a couple of days. I was hoping for better news regarding SDV before then so I could get rid of the TW 8300.
> 
> Guess I'll get the 80GB iPod instead, even though it's an older generation one.


Wait, you're giving up a free TiVoHD for this? That makes no sense. They'll have a solution for it sometime in the not too distant future, can't believe you'd give up a free TiVo....


----------



## samo

MickeS said:


> Wait, you're giving up a free TiVoHD for this? That makes no sense. They'll have a solution for it sometime in the not too distant future, can't believe you'd give up a free TiVo....


His iPod does not have neither monthly fees or commitment and is indeed free.
If he gets "free" TiVo HD, he will have a doorstop (until "not too distant future" that could take years) that he will have to pay for monthly.


----------



## jesseramos

The point of getting the TivoHD was to replace the 8300 I currently have. At this time, it's not capable of doing that. There's no estimated time frame on when that will happen. Will there even be a new Tivo by that time?


----------



## HiKent

How can you tell if TWC is really using SDV, or just blocking the channel information from CableCards? It seems odd that *all* HD programming would be a candidate for SDV. TNT? TBS? ESPN? 

My trust level with Oceanic TWC is very low. Apparently ESPN2HD & GOLFHD have been transmitted normally since the spring, but no encryption keys, so blocked to cablecards. I see now that the red "recording" light is dim when tuned w/o keys, but blank when SDV (or bad channel info to cablecard). I wouldn't put it past TWC to just block the channel information to cablecards & call it SDV.

So is there anyone with an HD cable box & a TiVo? If so, how can you tell from SA box diagnostics if it's a SDV or not.


----------



## Icarus

HiKent said:


> So is there anyone with an HD cable box & a TiVo? If so, how can you tell from SA box diagnostics if it's a SDV or not.


I have the OTW HD-DVR in the living room and the S3 in my bedroom, but I'm on Maui and we don't have SDV here yet, thank you. (but Nick says that it's "coming soon".)

I can tell you that I've never had any problems getting ESPN2-HD on the S3. The Golf HD channel was dicey at the beginning, but it comes in now. Can't say I ever watch it though.

-David


----------



## HiDefGator

HiKent said:


> It seems odd that *all* HD programming would be a candidate for SDV. TNT? TBS? ESPN?


Until more people actually start using HD cable boxes all HD channels are pretty good candidates for SDV. They certainly aren't in the majority yet.


----------



## s1_junkie

By now you may have seen the new channel lineup listing with the "not available with cablecard" field. http://www.oceanic.com/OceanicWebApps/Television/DigitalServices/DCL_Kona.html

Here in Kona by my count (excluding on demand, ppv, and audio) 135 of 248 channels will be unavailable. Numbers on the other islands are similar.

To me this looks like bypassing the FCC's CableCard mandate. However he FCC's plug and play documentation doesnt discuss SDV:

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/plugandplaytv.html

If any of you feel the urge to ask the FCC to clarify the plug and play rules for SDV, you can enter comment here :

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/upload_v2.cgi

'Proceedings number' is 97-80 , and 'Document Type' is Comment.


----------



## Icarus

s1_junkie said:


> By now you may have seen the new channel lineup listing with the "not available with cablecard" field. http://www.oceanic.com/OceanicWebApps/Television/DigitalServices/DCL_Kona.html
> 
> Here in Kona by my count (excluding on demand, ppv, and audio) 135 of 248 channels will be unavailable. Numbers on the other islands are similar.


Ok, but to get a real count, deduct all the "on demand" and PPV channels because we already didn't get them and/or couldn't use them with cable cards anyway.

Then take a close look at what the differences are. The main differences are in the HD package. The rest is noise as far as I'm concerned.

And, yes, that's significant.

They have a similar listing for Kahului Maui, but as far as I know, they haven't implemented SDV on Maui yet. I still get Discovery HD Theater, HD-NET, etc.

-David


----------



## HiKent

Icarus said:


> Ok, but to get a real count, deduct all the "on demand" and PPV channels because we already didn't get them and/or couldn't use them with cable cards anyway.
> 
> Then take a close look at what the differences are. The main differences are in the HD package. The rest is noise as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> And, yes, that's significant.
> 
> They have a similar listing for Kahului Maui, but as far as I know, they haven't implemented SDV on Maui yet. I still get Discovery HD Theater, HD-NET, etc.
> 
> -David


Here in Honolulu, they got rid of all HDs except 4 locals (NBC, FOX, ABC, PBS), HBO, Showtime, ESPN, TNT, & HDT. All the other ones went away.


----------



## lobrien

Argh!!! Got my cablecards on Monday, had 3 days of Tivo bliss, and then Thursday lost huge swaths of programming, including all non-broadcast HD channels and several non-HD channels too (TBS, TNT, to name two).


----------



## Icarus

You should not have lost TNT and TBS on 551 and 553. Are you saying you did? That has nothing to do with SDV.

-David


----------



## lobrien

Yeah, I lost a number of non-HD channels but a series of reboots got them back. I imagine this was a glitch caused by the change to SDV on the non-broadcast HD channels, which seem to really-truly gone away.


----------



## mauigirl

I am in the midst of fighting with Time Warner Cable on Maui. I bought the S3 when Tivo-2-go and file transfer were finally enabled. Also, I figured since the July 1, 2007 deadline had passed and the FCC was finally enforcing the cablecard legislation, there wouldn't be a problem. Was I wrong.

When I called to order the installation, the CSR insisted that I would need a cable box to view HD on my Tivo. I told her that the FCC required that they provide cablecards. She replied that they "don't have to provide cablecards that work." I told her to send out two cablecards that worked with the installer.

Of course they sent out the crippled singlestream cablecards. The installer told me that he was told they would not be installing any more cablecards so he was surprised by the order. I helped him install them. The CSR had canceled all of my existing service so we had to straighten that out. I kept one of the HD boxes but when it failed to power up later that night I took it in for a new HD box. I complained to the CSRs in the Maui office that what they were doing was illegal. I said that they need to be running boxes with cablecards, according to the FCC.

When I got home I finally figured out what they are doing. Inside the new HD box is a multistream cablecard. They are attempting to kill the cablecard mandate by offering the crippled one to subscribers while running their cable boxes with the multistream HD-capable card. This has got to be a violation of FCC legislation. They either need to run their cable boxes with the crippled cablecards or provide us with the multistream cards that they use for their boxes. They say they don't have to support tivo but they are federally mandated to support cablecard. A cablecard without HD is useless. That is what they are counting on.

Please join me in filing a complaint with both the FCC and the DCCA.

http://www.hawaii.gov/dcca/areas/catv/complaint/

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cib/fcc475.cfm

Anyone want to contact KHON2's Actionline?

KHON2 NEWS Gina Mangieri covers problems consumers face -- and helps find solutions. Read more about recent Action Line stories through links on this page, or send us tips to track down by calling 591-0222

Terrie
(Who is mad as ....)


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## Icarus

There's really no effective difference between having two singlestream cards vs a single multistream card in the THD. They both do the same thing. So I'm really not sure what your rant is all about. They do have to offer cablecards and they do, but the SDV thing (which isn't on Maui yet) will stop us from getting several HD channels until the industry provides the USB dongle to do the 2-way thing needed to get the SDV channels. This already affects our fellow S3 and THD owners on Ohahu and the Big Island, but it isn't here on Maui yet.

I've found that the people in the Maui office are pretty clueless when it comes to dealing with anything but their own equipment. I've gotten pretty upset trying to deal with them also. Eventually I got somebody in the main office to deal with my issues. It took a while though. Be persistent, and don't deal with the Maui office in person. Use their email form or call the main number. Ask them to escalate any issues you are having in setting up your service. SDV isn't implemented on Maui yet, so you should be able to get the HD package authorized for your CCs. If not, you should still be able to get the HD locals and HBO and SHO HD with your cablecards.

-David


----------



## mauigirl

David,

I made an assumption that the multistream cards handled the the SDV channels because, after all, the multistream cards handle the 2-way thing. My mistake. But you don't understand why I'm upset because I'm told my $600 HD DVR will not get HD without a cable box? You really don't understand? SDV may not be on Maui yet but I cannot get those channels. So they won't sell me the package, is that it? They also decided that the HBO on two cablecards and one box should cost over $45/month.

Most of my problems were with the Oahu office. They were the ones who screwed up my order. They are the ones wanting to charge me for three separate HBO subscriptions instead of the duplication of service. They were the ones that told me to go ahead and file a complaint with the FCC. As far as I'm concerned, the people in the Kahului office were OK. The installer was OK. It was the Oahu CSR who said that they "don't have to provide cards that work." 

I've worked for Time Warner Cable on Maui. You get a better result when you talk to someone face-to-face. I plan to do that... soon. But I'm still going to send complaints to the FCC and the DCCA. It was their intent to do away with the cablecard and by making the SDV channels all HD, they have succeeded. 

Terrie


----------



## Icarus

You can get HD channels on Maui. (with or without SDV). The HD locals (KHON-HD, KITV-HD, and KHNL-HD) and HBO-HD and SHO-HD are not going to SDV. You can get the rest of the HD lineup with a cablecard on Maui until Maui turns on SDV. (They may not be willing to sell it, but with your duplicate service, you'll probably get it on the cablecards anyway since you have the HD package on your HD cable box.)

Multistream does not mean 2-way. It just means that it's a single card that can decode more than one stream at a time.

I guess your experience with the local office and the people on the phone has been the opposite of mine. After the last time I was in there, I was ready to switch to sat. It took somebody in another office that went beyond the call of duty to solve my problem. If you have anything but a mundane problem and go into the office in Kahului, a long line of people will form behind you waiting to switch a box, return a box or pay a bill. They aren't really equipped to handle anything but mundane things there. At least that's my opinion. And I don't really think it's the fault of anybody in that office .. that's what they're trained to do there.

And I really didn't know what you were complaining about in your first post. All I knew is that you were a bit confused and having a problem. All I did was try to help.

Edited to add: In the main office they have a special desk for HD and cablecard issues. Those are the people that I tend to get some results from.

-David


----------



## Interpol

mauigirl said:


> So they won't sell me the package, is that it?


That's what it sounds like. Your Tivo's inability to receive HD has nothing to do with the cablecards.



> It was their intent to do away with the cablecard and by making the SDV channels all HD, they have succeeded.


This is just an issue of two technologies that currently don't work together. A fix will probably come out sometime in the future, you just need to be patient and wait for it. It has nothing to do with TW's "intent to do away with the cablecard".


----------



## HiDefGator

Icarus said:


> ...They do have to offer cablecards and they do, but the SDV thing (which isn't on Maui yet) will stop us from getting several HD channels until the industry provides the USB dongle to do the 2-way thing needed to get the SDV channels.
> ...


The S3 will also have to be upgraded to support the dongle. If they handed you a dongle today it wouldn't help. It may only require a software upgrade.


----------



## s1_junkie

FYI: I filed comment with the FCC on 11/7/07, attaching TWC listings and transcripts of a month's e-mails with TWC. Read if you like:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6519810339

I dont know if it is related, but I hear that the FCC's Enforcement Bureau wrote to OTWC on 11/8/07 asking it to explain how TWC is in compliance with the FCC's plug and play regulations (lawyers ask questions in that way!). (note, this is hearsay, I have not seen such a letter). My understanding is that TWC has 10 working days to reply.

If any of you are having non compliance issues with TWC (that would be all of you, right?) I would strongly suggest filing comment and/or e-mailing the FCC (please, we have the FCC's attention the time is NOW). Attach any evidence.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/upload_v2.cgi (specify proceedings: 97-80)

Quit *****in' and be as clear and rational as you can, something I find particuarly difficult right now.


----------



## Icarus

Nice letter.

I think the channel lineup you submitted is wrong or out of date. KFVE, TNT, TBS, etc are not SDV. Take a look at the latest channel lineup for Kona. (They do have some sort of "start over" feature on some of those channels, that isn't available for cablecard customers, but it doesn't sound like anything we would need with tivo anyway .. later I read a reply in your fcc filing where they explained this .. start over lets you start a running program from the beginning of the program via your 2-way cable box.)

When I look at the list, the only ones that really matter are the non-broadcast HD channels (except HBOHD and SHOHD). I guess if you watch the spanish stations, or subscribe to one of the sports packages you might have a different opinion. Other than that, sure, OC16, CSPAN3, CNBC World and a few other things I never really watch will be SDV. But I don't think the real loss is anything close to 135 non-ppv, non-shopping, non-on-demand channels.

I wish you would have included their "per outlet" policies in that letter. Most other TW customers only pay a small rental fee per cablecard. In our case, they charge us $8.00 duplicate programming fee per cc, and if you can get the HD pak, they charge an extra $6.95 per cc for that too. Compare that pricing to their own dual tuner HD DVR, where they don't charge for the extra tuner and don't charge twice for the HD Pak. Is a box with 2 cc's one outlet or two? They treat it as two, but their own box with dual tuner capability is treated as a single outlet.

-David


----------



## s1_junkie

1) Yes I had noticed that the text on the Kona channel lineup has changed since I copied and pasted, although they are both dated Nov 5th.

2) I have a multistream card (and I am not allowed to buy the HD pack!) so I was not aware of the "per outlet" pricing. If you feel the urge to tell the Feds.....

3) I did however just discover that the "digital pak" pricing I previously had was only available with a cable box (which was driven by my trusty S1). It would have been cheaper for me to keep the old cable box unconnected and gathering dust in a draw after getting my TiVoHD rather than returning the cablebox. And ofcourse TWC say I cant go back.

4) and to MauiGirl: you are correct, TWC will not sell you the HD Pak (or the Spanish Pak, or the Sports Pak, or the Chineese channel) even though SDV may not actually be implemented in your area (IMO a federal violation in its self).

We need a friend with a big stick.

Bob


----------



## Icarus

s1_junkie said:


> 3) I did however just discover that the "digital pak" pricing I previously had was only available with a cable box (which was driven by my trusty S1). It would have been cheaper for me to keep the old cable box unconnected and gathering dust in a draw after getting my TiVoHD rather than returning the cablebox. And ofcourse TWC say I cant go back.


They won't sell you the digital pak for the first channel and let you pay the duplicate service fee for the second channel? Incredible. Talk about non-parity pricing. They are charging you ala carte pricing for everything on the first CC stream?

I can't see why you can't go back. Just pay for an additional outlet with digital service (and get the box) and have them replace your current pricing with duplicate service x 2 for the CCs. Why won't that work? Would it be any cheaper that way?

OTW really seems to have their own idea of what equal access means.

-David


----------



## s1_junkie

Icarus said:


> OTW really seems to have their own idea of what equal access means.


IMO you nailed it exactly.


----------



## s1_junkie

FYI, I just called the FCC to check up on the status: "Cant comment on an investigation in progress". Which I take as good news. 

And "please add any other information you may have" - I pass this on to all of you.

Apparently when the investigation is complete the FCC will send a letter to me about my filed comment. I'll go camp by the mailbox.....

Over 2 months now, ugly cablebox users dont have any extra channels, anybody know if SDV has actually been implemented? 

And if not, why exactly will TWC not sell me the HDTV package?


----------



## is2scooby

Any updates?


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover

Hawaii SDV Update;
Even after the latest TWC cut off date about 2/3's of original HD channels remain, while all the new HD additions like CNNHD, Food network HD, History, ESPN2 etc etc do not work. still being billed for all the channels. 
Wonder when the USB dongle will be available.


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover

s1_junkie said:


> FYI, I just called the FCC to check up on the status: "Cant comment on an investigation in progress". Which I take as good news.
> 
> And "please add any other information you may have" - I pass this on to all of you.
> 
> Apparently when the investigation is complete the FCC will send a letter to me about my filed comment. I'll go camp by the mailbox.....
> 
> Over 2 months now, ugly cablebox users dont have any extra channels, anybody know if SDV has actually been implemented?
> 
> And if not, why exactly will TWC not sell me the HDTV package?


First of all, s1_junkie you are my hero. just read your posts and email interaction with Oceanic. Great! I have been arguing with some of those same people. I have been fuming with them for over a year for double charging us Tivo users duplicate service fees and HD entertainment pack, then with the whole SDV thing OMG!!!! But you took action and I am grateful. I will be following up with my comlaints to both the FCC and OTWC. 
And regarding your question, people with the TW HD cable boxes/DVRs do have many channels that use SDV (both SD and HD) that we don't get with our Tivo's.


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover

s1_junkie, have you heard back from anyone since the end of Nov? thanks


----------



## s1_junkie

Thanks, its nice to know somebody out there is as crazy as me.

I have not heard a word, I did make a second comment to the FCC on December 2nd. I just checked and my comment is not part of the public record, I called and checked on the status apparently the FCC considers the contents confidential.

I have no confidentiality agreement or any other relationship with the FCC, so how what I write could be considered confidential to the FCC is unclear to me. Time to write to the newspaper I think.

Anyway FYI here is the contents of my blocked FCC comment (but its not much use if we are the only ones who read it):

------------------------------------------------------------------------
December 2nd, 2007

There is a pressing need for the FCC to declare that Oceanic Time Warner Cable is in violation of the plug and play rules. Oceanic claims that a new distribution protocol (Switched Digital Video) means it can ignore the FCCs plug and play rules, and even its future commitment to such a protocol allows it to deny service to CableCard users today! The FCC needs to make a statement that clarifies the plug and play rules (http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/plugandplaytv.pdf) to explicitly say that programming refers to the content of cable television and not to the distribution protocol.

This last point is clear if we, for example, consider a DVD; the viewers experience is the same if the DVD is either purchased or if it is rented. Purchase is a one-way distribution protocol; rental is a two-way distribution protocol because the DVD is returned. Changing the distribution protocol does not change the programming; a rented DVD is for the viewer the same as a purchased DVD. The meaning of programming is equally true whether the distribution medium is a coaxial cable or The Postal Service.

Oceanic Time Warner Cable claims that changing from a one-way distribution protocol, changes the programming from one-way. The claim is that the programming becomes an advanced digital service. Hence the one-way programming section of the Plug and Play order no longer applies. Oceanics logic is flawed, as we have seen the distribution protocol does not alter the programming and also such a protocol does not meet the FCCs plug and play interactivity criterion. So the plug and play rules must apply, and Oceanic must be informed.

If all parties in the cable industry wish to move to Switched Digital Video (a bidirectional protocol) then there must be agreements on interoperability and schedule; and as with other TV technologies a clear migration plan. If one company dictates then consumers loose and the FCC will not have fulfilled its responsibility to the public.

Oceanic continues to discriminate against CableCard users; we cannot purchase certain programming packages because Oceanic says it will one day use Switched Digital Video. The schedule of that day is unclear, and now even less clear because of an ongoing FCC investigation (case # EB07SE352). I first reported to the Hawaii State Regulator on September 26th 2007 (and to the FCC on November 7th) Oceanics refusal to sell some packages; it is now December 2nd and Oceanic behavior is unchanged.

Nowhere does it say the plug and play rules need not apply now because of a possible future change.

Oceanics intransigence requires a clear, immediate, and public statement from the FCC requiring an end to this discrimination; also to prevent further abuse this statement should also contain a clarification of the meaning of programming (in the plug and play documents) as content and not as distribution protocol.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

And FYI, FCC contact numbers:

JoAnne Lucanik , 202 418 0873 (in charge of this investigation) 
Bill Davenport , 202 418 1034 (Assistant Chief, Enforcement Bureau. & JoAnne's boss)


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover

seems like all the HD channels (except networks, hbo,showtime) have finally been taken off and switched to SDV.
Anyone else still have the others?

Happy New Year!!!


----------



## Icarus

Yes. It depends on where you are (by island, typically).

Did anybody else lose the Sugar Bowl (KHON and KHONHD feeds) towards the end of the first half of the game? The analog feed came back and then eventually the HD feed was restored during the third quarter.

-David


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover

what a bummer! on oahu the game was in HD the whole time.


----------



## s1_junkie

I had all the other HD channels disabled right after I started persistent complaints!

Here in Kona The Sundance Channel just went grey, however a TiVo reset brought it back. In December I had a couple of instances of most channels going grey, these
were fixed by a reset. I assume this is SDV related, but it could be my TiVoHD.

HawaiiTivoLover: Does a TiVo reset bring back your lost channels, at least for a while?


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover

s1_junkie said:


> I had all the other HD channels disabled right after I started persistent complaints!
> 
> Here in Kona The Sundance Channel just went grey, however a TiVo reset brought it back. In December I had a couple of instances of most channels going grey, these
> were fixed by a reset. I assume this is SDV related, but it could be my TiVoHD.
> 
> HawaiiTivoLover: Does a TiVo reset bring back your lost channels, at least for a while?


just like you, last month, some HD channels would go grey and a reset would work. Since Jan 1st however just grey screen.weird because I do still get tnt HD and HD Discovery theater(besides networks,hbo and showtime). I guess it's finally time to turn my cablecards in and get their piece of crap DVR. Have you heard anything from oceanic lately?


----------



## s1_junkie

Sorry, no news from Oceanic, but it's not like they call me anyway.

After some pushing, the FCC finally published my last rant:
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6519821104

The redacted clause is: "and now even less clear because of an ongoing FCC investigation (case # EB07SE352). "

The Tuning Resolver stuff is clearing up:

From the National Cable & Telecommunications Association:
http://www.ncta.com/ReleaseType/MediaRelease/4439.aspx

and it looks like the major equipment vendors are on board:
http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?site=cdn&doc_id=140436

Sadly with this visible on the horizon it does not seem, to me, that there is to a lot of motivation for the droids at the FCC to do anything but wait. Wish that it aint so.

Tuning Resolver looks like another 6 months, and it seems Oceanic's active participation is required! Perhaps a few emails to the State Regulator asking him to keep Oceanic in the program are called for [email protected]

Sorry to hear you are considering mothballing your (paid for) luxury vehicle for a subcompact rental, that is soooo sad. But a cablecard gives access to less and less of Oceanic's toll road. (grrrrrr.)


----------



## Icarus

OT, but here it is:

Just announced on KGMB news (saw the teaser on the news blurb at the end of Jeopardy, then watched the story at the start of the news):

Oceanic and KGMB9 agreed to start cable-casting KGMB (CBS) in HD starting as soon as tomorrow night. The deal was just signed an hour ago.

I wonder if it will be on channel 1009?

-David


----------



## Icarus

It's 1007 and it's already on.

http://kgmb9.com/main/content/view/3222/76/

-David


----------



## Adam1115

cgould said:


> Can't get much DirectTV/Dish either (esp HD) since the birds are overhead and pointing to mainland, not the islands. eg, paradise is screwed


BTW, you can get HD in Hawaii on DirecTV... Two large dish's...


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover

Adam1115 said:


> BTW, you can get HD in Hawaii on DirecTV... Two large dish's...


hawaii does have direct tv HD (with 2 dishes) but it doesn't help the people stuck with a useless tivo HD or series 3.

Our only hope is the USB dongle...


----------



## clark_kent

If you're a TiVoHD or S3 owner; and you only want "Basic" Oceanic service; but you'd also like your "guide" data for your local HD channels (1003, 1006, 1007, 1008, 1010); and you're not reluctant to doing a bit of experimenting; then, I have a suggestion for you...

Buy yourself a Scientific Atlanta CableCARD (the single stream card is the PowerKEY PKM600 and the multi-stream card is the PowerKEY PKM800) on the open market (Ebay or where ever); DO NOT call Oceanic; plug the little sucker in; DO NOT call Oceanic; re-do your guided-setup; and don't forget, DO NOT call Oceanic... I'm suggesting that you refrain from calling Oceanic since I'm not sure what Oceanic would do... but, I would not be surprised if they don't try to somehow cripple or disable your new toy or possibly your service.

I'm not a lawyer, but I don't believe this would be "illegal" since you are subscribing to Basic service and (I believe) FCC mandates that local HD channels must be carries "in-the-clear" and (I believe) the FCC says that you're entitled to receive local HD channels even at the very Basic service level.

Good luck, and may the force be with you...

PS: if this works, you will (at the moment) not get any guide data for channel 1007 since Oceanic RE-branded the KGMBDT call sign to "OCkgmb" and of you go to TiVo.com "Online Scheduling" you will see that channel 1007 guide grid is showing "SIGN OFF" all day and all night... 1007 used to have guide data when KGMB (finally) first showed up on Oceanic, but shortly after the initial startup, Oceanic RE-branded KBMB's HD call sign to OCkgmb. As soon they did that, the grid went blank. The signal is there, just no guide data for the "outside" world like Zap2it (Tribune Media) where TiVo gets guide data. Not sure why KGMB would want to go along with this.


----------



## Adam1115

If you don't call them and they don't pair it to your TiVo, it won't work...


----------



## bizzy

I don't think thats true. If all you're using them for is the channel map, there's no need to pair; since they are not authenticating any conditional access.


----------



## Adam1115

bizzy said:


> I don't think thats true. If all you're using them for is the channel map, there's no need to pair; since they are not authenticating any conditional access.


Where is it going to get the channel map FROM? If the host id isn't paired with the card in the cable companies systems, it won't receive any data...


----------



## bizzy

You're wrong.


----------



## Adam1115

bizzy said:


> You're wrong.


Thanks for explaining.

Now I'm convinced.


----------



## GiantsFan24

Adam1115 said:


> Thanks for explaining.
> 
> Now I'm convinced.


AFAIK (Bizzy may tell me I'm wrong), you aren't going to get any content on channels 1003-1008 unless you pair the cablecard. You may get the channel guide, but what is the point if you are receiving the channels via QAM?

I know... I'm wrong.


----------



## bizzy

The channels are not encrypted. They are in the clear. The only time you'd need to pair is to enable conditional access. You don't need to pair to get the channel mapping.


----------



## GiantsFan24

bizzy said:


> The channels are not encrypted. They are in the clear. The only time you'd need to pair is to enable conditional access. You don't need to pair to get the channel mapping.


So, explain this to me like I don't know what I'm talking about -- which is likely. OTW's HD channels are broadcast in the clear on channels like 88.3 and 104.1 (or something like that). OTW's channel guide lists the shows on channels 1003-1008. How can Tivo do anything useful with the channel guide? And if it can't, why bother with the cablecard?

[Edit] Forgot to mention this part... Clark_Kent posted this suggestion on another thread in response to someone who wanted to know if he could get the HD channels using a cablecard without digital service. So my theory is that without digital service, he's not going to be receiving channels 1003-1008. Just the QAM channels. Right?


----------



## bizzy

The cablecard is the device that handles the channel mapping.
Your Tivo has its own guide. It does not use OTW's.
You're over thinking this.


----------



## GiantsFan24

bizzy said:


> The cablecard is the device that handles the channel mapping.
> Your Tivo has its own guide. It does not use OTW's.
> You're over thinking this.


I understand that Tivo has its own channel guide, but it uses info provided by OTW. Fox HD in Hawaii is listed on the Tivo guide as channel 1003, not channel 88.3 (which it is on my QAM tuner) or channel 0 which is what Tivo picks it up as from the coax. Are you saying that if I plug an unregistered cablecard in my Tivo I will start seeing Fox HD on channel 1003?


----------



## bizzy

I have no idea if a random cablecard will work. I can tell you that a OTW one will.


----------



## GiantsFan24

bizzy said:


> I have no idea if a random cablecard will work. I can tell you that a OTW one will.


Ahhh. The suggestion was to buy a cablecard off Ebay and not tell Oceanic about it. Are we talking about two different things?


----------



## bizzy

There is a nonzero chance that it would work, but I am not going to tell you the odds are better than flipping a coin. I have no idea what the cards need to be configured for a specific provider.


----------



## Adam1115

bizzy said:


> I have no idea if a random cablecard will work. I can tell you that a OTW one will.


So I'm wrong that it won't work, but you don't know if it will work.



How in the hell would get a OTW one that ISN'T PAIRED TO ANYTHING?


----------



## bizzy

Adam1115 said:


> How in the hell would get a OTW one that ISN'T PAIRED TO ANYTHING?


Social engineering.


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover

well i'll be able to tell you in a few days. just bought a PowerKEY PKM600 on ebay for my Series3. Crossing my fingers and I'll report back.


----------



## clark_kent

Hello All,

I think rolling your own CableCARD may actually work, and I'll get into why I think that in a moment, but first, from reading some of the posts I'd like to share some additional food for thought as to why I suggest NOT to call OTW if you do get your own CableCARD to experiment with. 

I don't know what OTW would actually do or say, but OTW being the folks that they are, here's my take on the possible outcomes of such a call... 

You phone OTW and say something like "Hello, I have my own CableCARD, and I want HD service."

Possible OTW reply:

1. What's your account number... but then again they may already know that from your caller-ID.

2. It's illegal for you to "own" you own CableCARD. (This may or may not be true but if it is NOT true, OTW will likely say this cause that's how they do business). And, they might add: you need to turn that card in to us.

3. OTW is the only one that can supply you with a CableCARD. (This may or may not be true but if it is NOT true, OTW will likely say this cause that's how they do business). And, they might add: you need to turn that card in to us.

4. It's illegal for you to attach your own CableCARD to our signal. (This may or may not be true but if it is NOT true, OTW will likely say this cause that's how they do business). And, they might add: you need to turn that card in to us to make sure your card doesn't mess up our signal.

5. They ask you for your CableCARD's personal info (Serial Number, MAC-Address, UA number, etc) and the trusting sole that you are, you give it to them.

6. They tell you that you must upgrade your service level from Basic to some "Digital and HD and etc)" level for $$$ per month and then possibly tell you that there's an extra $$$ per month since you are using your own device. So now your paying $$$ + $$$ for 4 HD channels that are already in-the-clear.

7. Another possibility, now that OTW has your CableCARD's "number," they "program" it so that NO channels are on your "allowed-to-view" list at all and you have NO support service since it's your own card.

Regarding some additional thoughts as to why I think that having your own CableCARD may actually work... The assumption is that all you really want from OTW is the Basic (lowest level) cable tier and the local HD channels that I think the FCC says that you're entitled to getting without having to subscribe to any other additional tiers.

1. TiVo Mom "knows" all the channel numbers (analog, digital, music, PPV, on-demand, SDV, etc) on OTW's cable, probably from some type of EPG file that is supplied to TiVo Mom by OTW. What TiVo Mom does not know is what "channels" you are actually "authorized" to view. To check this out, get on tivo.com, click on "Online Scheduling" (and assuming tivo.com does not "recognize" your location from your cookies) you will have the option of entering your zip code, then you'll get a box asking you to select your service provider, so select "OTW digital" and you will see ALL OTW channels and the program guide grid for ALL the channels. I think TiVo Mom get the "channel list" from OTW and the actual guide data from Tribune Media (zap2it.com). Don't forget that you actually "select" or "de-select" the channels you "receive" or watch from the channel list in your TiVo.

2. ALL the channels (analog, digital, music, PPV, on-demand, SDV, etc) are on the coax coming out of your wall, no matter what your service level. OTW can put channel blocks (filters) on the your line from the pole to your place for Analog channels, but as far as I know, the digital channels can not be blocked or filtered out like the Analog signals. Any device (TV, TiVo, DVR) with a QAM tuner will be able to tune ANY in-the-clear (clear-QAM) digital channel that's on the cable. The most likely reason that while your QAM-TV can tune 99.3 (KGMB-DT, or any other clear-QAM signal) but not know what that channels "name" is, is because the PSIP is crippled (or malformed).

3. OCkgmb (KGMBDT) is at 117025KHz (or 117000KHz depending on tuner) and is displayed as "channel" 99.3 on a QAM devise and 117000KHz is mapped to channel 1007 on a OTW STB.

4. I believe the sole purpose of a CableCARD is to authorize and authenticate whether or not you're allowed to receive "encrypted" channels. If all you want to watch is clear-QAM (unencrypted) channels, you should not need to be "paired" or anything else (in my opinion). If you want something other then the in-the-clear channels, this "suggestion of getting your own CableCARD" is not for you, as you will need to be "paired" so that your CableCARD can authorized your access to encrypted channels.

5. I think, that with a (non-paired) CableCard in your TiVo, your TiVo will map 117000KHz to channel 1007 from the channel list that TiVo Mom sends.

This is what I think will happen when you plug your own non-paired CableCARD into your TiVO:

1. You plug your new (Scientific Atlanta) card into your TiVo.

2. You run guided setup and obviously (as long as the card is working) your TiVo will recognize it. In Guided setup, you tell it you get digital everything.

3. Your TiVo calls home to Mom and download something and ask you if it has the correct channel list. When you're satisfied, you say OK.

4. TiVo Mom, downloads the entire channel list and guide data for ALL channels in the OTW channel list. You go to the channel list on your TiVo and check or uncheck the actual channels that are in-the-clear that you can actually watch. With CableCARD in slot, "digital" channel list from TiVo Mom, your TiVo now "maps" QAM freqency 117000KHz to channel 1007. My guess is that OTW identifies (maps) channel frequency to channel number (117000KHz = 1007) to TiVo Mom and if OTW moves a channel to another frequency, they send that data (new EPG channel list) to TiVo Mom.

If this works for OTW, it will most likely work the same for all other cable markets, provided all you're looking for is clear-QAM unencrypted channels. If it does work, you do need to make sure you get a CableCARD that is "compatible" with your cable provider (Motorola or Scientific Atlanta).

And, a BIG "way-to-go" to HawaiiTivoLover... I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

Good luck to us all and may the force be with us...


----------



## Adam1115

None of that explains why it would work.

If a cablecard didn't need to be paired, then you don't need a cablecard and your channels would already be working.


----------



## Icarus

Several new HD channels showed up on my tivo on Maui:

1113 - CNN HD
1323 - HGTV HD
1327 - HIST HD
1449 - LMN HD
1547 - A&E HD
1583 - MTV HD

Most of them still have no programming info from tivo. I submitted a lineup request. Also still waiting for them to straighten out the name change back to KGMBDT from OCKGMB, which caused a loss of guide information. Not sure what the problem is with that one. It's taking forever.

-David


----------



## sfhub

Adam1115 said:


> Where is it going to get the channel map FROM? *If the host id isn't paired with the card in the cable companies systems, it won't receive any data...*


When our system enabled content control (CCI=non-zero) we found out what you stated is untrue.

Many folks in my area thought they had properly paired cards when in fact they didn't. After content control was enabled, what folks found is they were still enable to receive encrypted channels despite having cards that were not paired properly. What they were not able to receive were encrypted shows/channels with CCI=non-zero.

So a CableCARD that is not paired with the HostID *does* receive data and decrypts it as long as content protection is not enabled.

There are actually 2 significant activation points with your CableCARD.
1) activation/authorization - this allows your card to decrypt channels that the cable company has put on the wire
2) pairing - for CCI=non-zero content, CableCARD specs require the CableCARD to *re*encrypt the content it has already decrypted in step #1, using host-specific keys, prior to passing the stream to the host device. If content protection is not requested (CCI=0x00) then this step is not needed and even if pairing is broken you will still see the content (assuming #1 if fine)

The CableCARD downloading a channel map is a slightly separate process. It is probably spelled out somewhere whether this can take place with an unactivated card, but I haven't looked closely enough at the specs to see what could or would happen. Experimentation could get the answer quickly as well. Some markets (not necessarily Hawaii) allow self installs so someone could test out the theory pretty easily.


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover

Icarus said:


> Several new HD channels showed up on my tivo on Maui:
> 
> 1113 - CNN HD
> 1323 - HGTV HD
> 1327 - HIST HD
> 1449 - LMN HD
> 1547 - A&E HD
> 1583 - MTV HD
> 
> Most of them still have no programming info from tivo. I submitted a lineup request. Also still waiting for them to straighten out the name change back to KGMBDT from OCKGMB, which caused a loss of guide information. Not sure what the problem is with that one. It's taking forever.
> 
> -David


Wow! when did those channels come back? Bummer, i turned my cablecards in a few weeks ago trading for a piece of s#!t TWC DVR.
Waiting for the USB Dongle...


----------



## s1_junkie

Icarus said:


> Several new HD channels showed up on my tivo on Maui:
> 
> 1113 - CNN HD
> 1323 - HGTV HD
> 1327 - HIST HD
> 1449 - LMN HD
> 1547 - A&E HD
> 1583 - MTV HD
> 
> -David


Same channels are here in Kona, except 1583. All I see is the channel name, no TiVo program data, and since the OTW vermin wont sell me the HD package the screen is grey.

Still dreaming of a USB tuning resolver ....


----------



## HiKent

HawaiiTivoLover said:


> well i'll be able to tell you in a few days. just bought a PowerKEY PKM600 on ebay for my Series3. Crossing my fingers and I'll report back.


So did it work? What channels can you get?


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover

HiKent said:


> So did it work? What channels can you get?


sorry it took so long to reply, was out of town. 
I installed the SA PowerKEY cablecard I bought on Ebay and did the guided setup and it didn't really work. at best it would tune to a channel for about 3 seconds if at all and then go to grey screen. Never got any of the HD network channels to work at all. Mybe its an issue with the cablecard...
tried both slots and rebooting, no difference.
just took the card out and redid guided setup again.
I'm back to a SD Tivo series 3 :-(


----------



## clark_kent

HawaiiTivoLover said:


> sorry it took so long to reply, was out of town.
> I installed the SA PowerKEY cablecard I bought on Ebay and did the guided setup and it didn't really work. at best it would tune to a channel for about 3 seconds if at all and then go to grey screen. Never got any of the HD network channels to work at all. Mybe its an issue with the cablecard...
> tried both slots and rebooting, no difference.
> just took the card out and redid guided setup again.
> I'm back to a SD Tivo series 3 :-(


Well, that is a big bummer!

I don't know if anyone has any suggestions as to how to tell if your card is actually working or has some type of malfunction... if you don't mind sharing some info regarding your cablecard:

1. Is it a Multi-Stream or Single Stream?
2. What specific model number is it?
3. What's the date on the card?
4. What's the hardware (HW) version?
5. What's the firmware version?
6. Did you try doing any soft or hard resets after the guided setup?


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover

clark_kent said:


> Well, that is a big bummer!
> 
> I don't know if anyone has any suggestions as to how to tell if your card is actually working or has some type of malfunction... if you don't mind sharing some info regarding your cablecard:
> 
> 1. Is it a Multi-Stream or Single Stream?
> 2. What specific model number is it?
> 3. What's the date on the card?
> 4. What's the hardware (HW) version?
> 5. What's the firmware version?
> 6. Did you try doing any soft or hard resets after the guided setup?


1. it's a single stream card
2. pkm600
3. no date i can see
4. how do i tell?
5. how do i tell?
6. tried both resets.

hope it helps.


----------



## JTYoung1

I've never had to pair a cable card with my TiVos for Comcast. I've gone to the local cable office picked up cards, and installed them and they worked just fine. I've never had to give them any information on what I was installing them in. Also when I had to replace my S3 due to a lightning strike I was able to move the cards from the old S3 to the new S3 and had them work fine. 

The cable company enables the cable card to descramble the channels you are supposed to receive, they do not have to pair it. 
If you have a cable card that has not been activated/enabled you will still get basic channels plus any digital channels they broadcast in the clear (the Local HD stations). The cable card will pull the channel map whether it has been activated by the cable company or not, (I've done it on mine when Comcast didn't activate a card correctly) you will just not be able to view those channels and will get a message telling you so.


----------



## clark_kent

HawaiiTivoLover said:


> 1. it's a single stream card
> 2. pkm600
> 3. no date i can see
> 4. how do i tell?
> 5. how do i tell?
> 6. tried both resets.
> 
> hope it helps.


One of my friends just got a new OTW STB with cablecard... we're going to take the card out to play... we'll let you know what we find and how the card likes being inside something else...


----------



## Icarus

More new HD channels showed up in a tivo update (with a twist).

They finally straightened out the programming info/channel names for the previously added HDs, but last week they added several new channels that I'm not getting on my S3 (recall that as far as I know, we don't yet have SDV on Maui.)

1329 APLHD (Animal Planet)
1331 TLCHD
1333 DSCHD
1337 SCIHD

I'm not getting any programming on those channels on the S3, but the guide data is there.

Also they added:

84 KHETDT
86 KITVDT

And I'm also not getting anything on those channels.

I need to go check the OTW HD-DVR in the living room to see if there's anything there on these channels.

Update: The 4 HD channels are all listed in the guide on the OTW HD DVR and the programming is there, but there's no guide data. 84 and 86 don't come in on the HD-DVR either and aren't listed in the guide. Hmmmm ... I wonder if the SDV rollout is starting on Maui. Is there some way to tell other than the loss of all non-broadcast and non-premium HDs (which hasn't happened yet)?

Fortunately SPs seem to record from the lowest numbered channel, so it didn't interfere with any recordings. I did uncheck 84 and 86 from "channels I receive".

-David


----------



## cableguy763

clark_kent said:


> One of my friends just got a new OTW STB with cablecard... we're going to take the card out to play... we'll let you know what we find and how the card likes being inside something else...


Have fun playing with the bill for tampering with the box. Error codes are generated within the box that will tell the cable co that it has been tampered with.


----------



## clark_kent

Icarus said:


> More new HD channels showed up in a tivo update (with a twist).
> 
> ...
> 
> 84 KHETDT
> 86 KITVDT
> 
> And I'm also not getting anything on those channels.
> 
> Update... 84 and 86 don't come in on the HD-DVR either and aren't listed in the guide. Hmmmm ... I wonder if the SDV rollout is starting on Maui. Is there some way to tell other than the loss of all non-broadcast and non-premium HDs (which hasn't happened yet)?
> 
> -David


I don't know where SDV is and is not deployed, but I can tell you that 84 and 86 are NOT in SDV (at least in my area, last night) since I could readily receive both channels on clearQAM with a QAM tuner USB'd to my computer...

My guess as why 84/86 don't come in: Oceanic is blocking those channels in the (Oceanic) STB... and in case of CableCARD users, Oceanic can easily send a channels map list to the CableCARD that excludes those channels...

My thoughts on the good old "NOT AVAILABLE FOR CABLECARD" issue: perhaps the real reason that many of those channels are NOT available is NOT because all those channels are SDV but simply because Oceanic is sending out a channels map that specifically excludes those channels from the map/list and therefore the CableCARD is not "authorized" to decode those channels...

Don't forget, Oceanic hates CableCARD's and really does NOT want to support CableCARD customers... after all, with CableCARD, there is no $$$ in On$$$Demand and there is no $$$ in Pay$$$Per$$$View!!! AND, for Oceanic, it's all about the $$$ and the customer!!!

Everything else Oceanic tells CableCARD customers is smoke and mirrors...


----------



## s1_junkie

A CableCard story:

It has been a busy week here at TiVo Vigilante Towers. On Monday evening my TiVo HD died, a call to TiVo on Tuesday - it is still under warranty (lite), $50 and TiVo send me a replacement. By Thursday morning the box was at my door, which is about as fast as you can get anything to South Kona. So it was a pain that this happened but great customer service from TiVo. TiVo tell me my CableCard will have to be associated with its new host and to call my cable company.

Plugged the new TiVo in, moved the CableCard from my old HD. Up pops the grey screen saying call 643 2337 to activate service, the screen contains the ID numbers of the card and the host. I call&#8230;..

Half an hour later I get a call back, and explain. The voice says: "There is a note in your record: 'All CableCard issues to be directed to corporate, call 1-866-774-9098'". I call&#8230;

Voicemail says it belongs to Andrew Long, I leave a message explaining. A couple of hours go by, no response - so I Google "Andrew Long time warner". Perhaps he is: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/5/499/615 - "Assistant Chief Counsel, Regulatory at Time Warner Cable". TWC has promoted its lawyers to customer service. New York City Area, his work day is over. Wait till Friday a.m., I call&#8230;..

A silver tongued city slicker lawyer answers, I ask his position at TWC he responds "a lawyer" - I assume he is indeed Assistant Chief Counsel. He figures out this is a technical issue and will get somebody to call me. We have a short polite conversation, he knows of my FCC filings, I ask about Tuning Resolvers. I heard him say that Tuning Adapters will be available in Q2, TWC has still to decide on price. This is the first time I have heard TWC acknowledge that it will make these available, although TiVo has said so. I told him in my opinion TWC had handled this situation poorly.

Friday noon, OTW calls, I explain, give them the Host and Card numbers and continue guided setup. My TiVo now shows digital channels, but not Showtime or Encore to which I subscribe (I get the 'activate service' grey screen). I call&#8230;

OTW works hard "completed upgrade at head end, and some additional work with cable card" still Showtime and Encore don't work. OTW at my house for almost 3 hours on Saturday, tried a new CableCard, tried an OTW box, can't find the problem. OTW seems to be trying hard, but without a result it is not clear.

It is Monday, my TiVo is still without Showtime and Encore. Anybody got any suggestions?


----------



## Icarus

> The voice says: "There is a note in your record: 'All CableCard issues to be directed to corporate, call 1-866-774-9098'".


Wow .. incredible. Maybe you should call Mr. Long back since he seems to be your personal OTW contact.

-David


----------



## clark_kent

s1_junkie said:


> A CableCard story:
> 
> It has been a busy week here at TiVo Vigilante Towers. On Monday evening my TiVo HD died...


Just curious if you could share some info on your cablecard:

1. Is it a Multi-Stream or Single Stream?
2. What specific model number is it?
3. What's the date on the card?
4. What's the hardware (HW) version?
5. What's the firmware version?

It would have been interesting to compare the channel list before and after OTW did the "activating/paring/authorizing" phone call thing that the cablecard screen told you that you "must" do...


----------



## HiKent

s1_junkie said:


> The voice says: There is a note in your record: All CableCard issues to be directed to corporate, call 1-866-774-9098. I call


S1--

Have you ever questioned why we can't get the music & radio channels? If have assumed they block them as other TWC locations report no problem. It would seem that we should at least get NOAA radio -- public safety and such.

We have *no* radio reception in our valley. I'd love to have my radio/music back.


----------



## s1_junkie

clark_kent said:


> Just curious if you could share some info on your cablecard:
> 
> 1. Is it a Multi-Stream or Single Stream?
> 2. What specific model number is it?
> 3. What's the date on the card?
> 4. What's the hardware (HW) version?
> 5. What's the firmware version?
> 
> It would have been interesting to compare the channel list before and after OTW did the "activating/paring/authorizing" phone call thing that the cablecard screen told you that you "must" do...


OTW replaced my card on Sat, current card is:

Multistream
S.A. PKM800
4/24/07
HW 1.2
"F"

Yes, I wish I had checked out the status more before I called. Hiho.

Today a TiVo support person showed me a site that explains what some of those CableCard screens should look like. It is excellent:

http://tivosupport2.instancy.com/LaunchContent.aspx?CID=f8f40dc6-5fb6-4ed8-ac41-d8cd0d5c0824

Turns out my card is in Mmode, and not paired - and I can now point to why I know. Time to talk to local OTW folks again...


----------



## s1_junkie

HiKent said:


> S1--
> 
> Have you ever questioned why we can't get the music & radio channels? If have assumed they block them as other TWC locations report no problem. It would seem that we should at least get NOAA radio -- public safety and such.
> 
> We have *no* radio reception in our valley. I'd love to have my radio/music back.


I have to say the OTW managers dont listen to me, they just develop strategies to deal with me. That said the "Not avaliable with CableCard" tag on the OTW website is also attached to the radio stations. So if we ever get that addressed, the radio stations should be included. I rememeber your post from last year, if I get the chance (and I dont blow it) I'll try.


----------



## s1_junkie

Icarus said:


> Wow .. incredible. Maybe you should call Mr. Long back since he seems to be your personal OTW contact.
> 
> -David


I wish. My guess is he is a lot smarter than me, I'll end up inserting my foot in my mouth, the less contact the better.

And, yes I think these events are incredible too.


----------



## clark_kent

HawaiiTivoLover said:


> 1. it's a single stream card
> 2. pkm600
> 3. no date i can see
> 4. how do i tell?
> 5. how do i tell?
> 6. tried both resets.
> 
> hope it helps.





s1_junkie said:


> OTW replaced my card on Sat, current card is:
> 
> Multistream
> S.A. PKM800
> 4/24/07
> HW 1.2
> "F"
> 
> ...


The cablecard in my friends box:

Multi-Stream
SA PowerKEY Model PKM802
3/24/07
HW 1.2
"F"

I don't know anything about SA cablecards to comment on any difference between a PKM800 and a PKM802, hopefully, someone knowledgeable can comment...

So, we took the cablecard and a TiVoHD to a safe house and tried our best to make sure that we were not followed... the cable service at the safe house is "standard analog" level of service... plugged the cablecard into a TiVoHD that has never had a cablecard in it... got a grey screen message with instructions to call Oceanic... ignored the message and did the guided setup... it looks like the guide data is all there for "all" Oceanic channels including analog/digital/HD/Premium/On-demand/PPV... all the analog channels came in fine... all the local HD channels came in fine and they all had guide data... most of the channels that are listed as being "available with" cablecard came in fine... none of the Premium/On-demand/PPV came in (as expected since they are encrypted) but they did have guide data...

There was no "pairing" or "authorizing" or "hit" from Oceanic, but, obviously, this particular cablecard has been in the "Oceanic system" so what if anything that has to do with it's level of "functionality" vs a "virgin" cablecard (from the open market) is uncertain...

Obviously, we also do not know if the cablecard acquired by HawaiiTivoLover actually "works" and is fully functional or is perhaps defective or crippled in someway...

Acquire (on the open market) a "new" or fully functional and "working" PKM800 or PKM802, would still make for an interesting experiment... in my humble opinion, I think there is a reasonable chance that you could get all your local (unencrypted) HD channels WITH guide data, assuming that is all you wanted from your cable...

Maybe someone will try this on a Motorola system with a Motorola M-Card... I don't know why, but my expectation on the likely hood of this experiment working (getting guide data for local HD) is higher with a multi-stream (SA or Moto) card then a single stream card.


----------



## cableguy763

A powerkey 800 card is the card that is for UDCP boxes, 802 is for cable co boxes. I can't see how they differ.


----------



## clark_kent

cableguy763 said:


> A powerkey 800 card is the card that is for UDCP boxes, 802 is for cable co boxes. I can't see how they differ.


Pardon me for being suspect of what the cable industry says and does...

Are you saying that the "label" is truly the only difference between a PowerKEY 800 and 802... please don't misunderstand, but could you comment on how you know this...

Why would SA make two different versions of the same multi-stream card and have one version specifically for UDCP (TiVo type) boxes and a different version specifically for there own box??? After all, it's not the cablecard that makes any box unidirectional or by-directional... given the cable industries "practice" and love for cable cards, it would not surprise me to find more of a difference then just the label.


----------



## s1_junkie

Another CableCard story:

Last September I filed 3 complaints with the State D.C.C.A.; these were then passed on to OTW. On Saturday I received in the mail a letter from OTW. It only took 5 months for OTW to respond, that says something about priorities:

----------------------------------------------------------------

Oceanic Time Warner
February 20, 2008.

Dear S1_Junkie (name changed to protect the vigilante)

I am writing to you in response to your letter to the Department of Commerce and Consumer affairs, CATV Division.

We have investigated your concerns and have made sure that you are receiving all the one-way services that we provide to our customers subscribing to your level of service.

Oceanic Time Warner Cable supports the ability of Unidirectional Digital Cable Products (UDCP) to access our one-way services and will continue to do so in the future. However, we are providing certain channels in other areas as two-way services.

Because UDCPs are one-way devices, they cannot access two-way services. Accordingly, if you would like to view those channels on your UDCP, you must obtain the necessary equipment  specifically, a set-top box with two-way capabilities.

Sincerely,
(Signed)
Norman P. Santos
Vice President, Operations

Cc: Glen Chock, D.C.C.A.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, the last 3 sentences were as entered here - lets say confusing.
(e.g. accorting to view with your TiVo you must get a set top box?!)

Clearly OTW does not get it. I wrote back, and to the DCCA:
----------------------------------------------------------------

TiVo Vigalante Towers
March 4, 2008

Norman Santos
VP Operations 
Oceanic Time Warner
200 Akamainui Street
Mililani
HI 96789-3999

Dear Mr. Santos,

Thank you for your letter dated February 20th, and postmarked February 28th, in response to my Hawaii Dept. Commerce and Consumer Affairs Complaints dated September 17th, September 27th, and September 28th. And also, I assume, in response to emails exchanged between myself and Oceanic between October 2nd and October 31st the last of which asked a manager to contact me.

I understand that your letter draws a distinction between a UDCP and a set-top box with two way capabilities. And also between one way service and two way service. While I can imagine these views help in addressing Oceanics internal operations, they do not address Oceanics customer service obligations or Oceanics obligations to the FCC on which customers depend. These obligations are the issue.

In the context of these obligations the FCCs Plug and Play documentation ( http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/plugandplaytv.html ) is the gold standard. There are two alternatives, both described in the document: 1) _one-way programming only, including analog basic, digital basic, and digital premium cable programming_ requiring _digital cable ready_ consumer equipment; and 2) _advanced digital cable services like pay-per-view, video-on-demand, cable operator enhanced program guide, or interactive data enhanced television service_ for this _you will need a set-top box_.

Note that one-way programming includes analog basic, digital basic, and digital premium cable programming. Also note the definitions are in terms of the programming or the viewer usage, not the distribution technology.

I believe Oceanics service does not comply with its obligations because many channels of one-way programming are currently unavailable for third party digital cable ready equipment (on Oceanics web site labeled as CableCard). Oceanics non-compliance includes, but may not be limited to:

1)	Channels labeled on the web site as part of, for example, Digital Cable Service are labeled Not available with CableCard. Clearly this is not in compliance as such channels fall within the FCCs one-way programming criterion and must be made available for digital cable ready equipment such as CableCard equipment. The list of these channels is extensive.

2)	There are several instances of the same programming available in standard definition and on a separate channel in high definition (e.g. TBS, History). But the HD channel is not available to CableCard users on third party boxes. Only the resolution and the aspect ratio are different, the programming is the same; any claim that programming is anything but one-way in both cases is clearly ludicrous.

3)	Oceanic leases set top boxes that contain a CableCard; strangely the HD channels listed on the Oceanic website as Not Available with CableCard are available on these Oceanic supplied CableCard boxes, but not on third party CableCard boxes. The criterion for HD channels seems to be who supplies the set top box. Im pretty sure the intent of the regulation is that this would not be the case. Perhaps the web site should say Not Available with TiVo, etc..

4)	In the second half of 2007, the availability of some channels to third party CableCard equipment changed. The character of the programming did not change; the third party CableCard equipment did not significantly change. In a letter to customers dated August 21 Oceanic explicitly announced discontinued service of some one-way programming to third party CableCard equipment. This was explained (I paraphrase) by Oceanics choice to install equipment that was not backwards compatible (or choice to operate such equipment in a non-backwards compatible manner). This service discontinuation is a result of Oceanics choice and not of the programming, one-way or otherwise.

I am sure you will agree, Oceanics service must comply with FCC regulation. I do not believe this is currently the case as I have illustrated above. So I request Oceanic use its best efforts to make CableCard users whole without delay.

Please view this as an opportunity to provide solutions to your customers using third party equipment; we exist, it is simply good customer service to acknowledge that. I expect you have options; I look forward to hearing your proposal to allow your customers to fully utilize their equipment.

Regards

(Signed)

S1_Junkie

Cc: Glen Chock, D.C.C.A. 

----------------------------------------------------------------

Glen Chock
State of Hawaii
Cable Television Division
Department of Commerce and Consumer Affairs
335 Merchant Street
PO Box 541
Honolulu
HI 96809

Dear Mr. Chock,

After five months I finally received a response from Norman Santos of Oceanic; I expect you have seen a copy by now. I have replied to him, a copy is attached.

In my opinion Oceanics position seems unchanged, in summary: Oceanic has chosen to install new equipment which is not backwards compatible, so Oceanic refuses to comply with the FCCs Plug and Play rules.

I request the State start an investigation.

Regards
(Signed)
S1_Junkie
----------------------------------------------------------------

I keep trying......

----------------------------------------------------------------
BTW, Encore and Showtime still dont work


----------



## s1_junkie

clark_kent said:


> So, we took the cablecard and a TiVoHD to a safe house....


Very interesting, thank you.


----------



## clark_kent

What the heck happened to cableguy763's last post???

Can you re-call or delete your own post???

Can a moderator or someone delete a post???

Anyway... I was working on a reply to cableguy763... since that post has gone AWOL, I can't very well "quote" the missing post, I don't know if I'm braking some posting protocol or posting etiquette but I've decided to post my reply to the missing post anyway...

To paraphrase the missing cableguy763 post:

1. cableguy763 guessed that the 800 and 802 cards are the same except for color of the label
2. cableguy763 has made a 802 works in a TiVo but it had to be paired correctly
3. cableguy763 felt that cable is following FCC mandate
4. cableguy763 felt that cable loves for you to spend $600 on an S3 with a three year (TiVo) commitment since then you will be a cable subscriber for three years and cable has three years of revenue

So, my rely to the missing post:

The operative word in your comment on the difference between the 800 and 802 is "guess," and your "guess" may be correct, but my "guess" is that there could very well be more of a difference then just the color of the label...

As to you comment that the 802 "works fine as long as it is paired correctly" (that is a quote from the missing post) is not correct at all and has been disproved... please read post #161 above.

You say "cable is following the FCC's mandate" (again a quote from the missing post)... are you KIDDING or what??? I could follow up by asking if you work for the cable industry... but with a statement like "cable is following the FCC's mandate," I don't think there is any point in asking...

I'm sorry, but IMHO, your notion that cable "loves" TiVo or ANY box other then there own box sucking signal at the end of the coax is a dilution... I don't have any real numbers, but it would not be any big surprised to find a significant number of TiVo customers subscribing to "basic" or "standard" level of cable service... that's NOT where the money is for cable... even over three whole years... if you don't have a "cable" box, there is no PPV, there is no On-Demand, there is no spur-of-the-moment "lets watch this game," there is no "impulse buying" of anything... on Oceanic, there are some 50 (FIFTY!!!) PPV/OD channels... just where do you think the BIG money is and why cable wants everyone to have a "cable" box... and BIG $$$ PROFITS is why a simple minded (one-way) cablecard just will not do... 

And, some thoughts on SDV: the cable industry probably has bandwidth issues, after all, they need more and more channels dedicated to $$$PPV (they already have 50, but need more)... a bonus of SDV (to the cable industry) is that it stops cablecard adoption dead in its tracks... another bonus of SDV (to cable) is that you will need yet another outboard box (from cable) as a "tuning resolver." 

PS: I'd sure like to know what happened to cableguy763 post... I hit refresh to see if anyone else had added anything before I posted my replied, but it was simply gone and repeated refresh and back-steps have not brought it back...


----------



## cableguy763

Clark, I deleted my post because I do not want to get in a spitting contest with you in particular. I do know that your testing of an 802 card in a tivo proved little. You DO NOT get encrypted channels. You never will if that card is not paired to the headend. You will get the EXACT same results plugging in a 800 card. The 802 cards are paired in cable boxes the exact same way as an 800 is in a udcp, thus following the fcc mandate that boxes use the same separable security as udcp. Thats what I meant by following the mandate. What I did find interesting though is that the guide matched the channel maps. Good find.

I honestly feel your pain over losing a lot of channels to sdv. The market I live in has more than otw. I have seen several announcements from tivo and ncta over the tuning resolver, and am anxiously waiting for it to come out.

I also would speculate that 75&#37; of tivo hd users have cablecards that subscribe to digital services. If this were an tivo hd that worked with satellite, most would be satellite subscribers. This is why I say cable loves the fact that you are at least subscribing to something from them. Seems like an obvious point to me.


----------



## GiantsFan24

I want to weigh in on the credibility of cableguy763, since it has been more-or-less impugned by clark_kent. Cableguy is a well-known and highly appreciated contributor in TCF, especially in the Official Time Warner thread. He goes out of his way to help users who are having cablecard problems. I hope he gets paid for the time he spends troubleshooting problems for TCF posters from Austin. It would be nice if we had a local cable rep here who was as dedicated to customer service as cableguy.

I almost fell out of my chair when I read clark_kent ask cableguy to "comment on how [he] knows this." Cableguy has built his street cred in TCF. Clark_kent?...not so much.

I hope cableguy continues to contribute to this thread; it's to our benefit to have a knowledgeable rep from TWC participating.


----------



## Icarus

I really think the discussion of alternate cc's is getting off the topic of this thread anyway.

But that's just my personal opinion, though staying on topic does make the email notification of new posts to this thread a bit more pertinent.

Thanks,
David


----------



## clark_kent

cableguy763 said:


> Clark, I deleted my post because I do not want to get in a spitting contest with you in particular...


cableguy763, thank you for the clarification, I appreciate you getting back... I'm not looking for any spitting contest either... sorry about misunderstanding your comment regarding cable following FCC mandate... please accept my apology... had no intention of trowing any undeserved stones... I also did not intended to discredit your comments regarding the 800/802 cards and the label being the only difference... I have a big distrust of the cable industry... hope we're good and the community will continue to see your valued contributions... and one last note: when you say "with you in particular" I hope I have not inadvertently offended you (or anyone else) in some other post.

I would like to clarify the intent and purpose of experimenting with an "open market" cablecard that is not paired or authorized:

1. It was never my intent to encourage or to condone theft of cable service.

2. It was never my intent for this to be a way for someone to receive encrypted or unauthorized channels.

3. It was never intended for those that want premium/PPV or other encrypted services, which requires a paired and authorized cablecard.

There are a lot of TiVo users that just simply want guide data for local HD channels without being extorted and forced to sign up for cable services that is not wanted... "cabecard service" typically requires a lot more $$$ then just the few dollars for the cablecard fee itself... if cable would let customers have a cablcard for $5 and not "require/extort" subscription to other services, we wouldn't be having any discussions about this....

Having said all that, I have no qualm or issue "experimenting" and suggesting the use of "open sourced" cablecards for the purpose of getting guide data for UNencrypted local HD channels that are being paid for and are part of "basic or standard" cable service... if you're paying for the service and receiving the channel, cable should not come along and extorting other extra fees just so you can have guide data...

What did my experiment prove: most importantly, it proved that you CAN get channel guide data for unencrypted channels by using a cablcard that is not paired or authorized...

Does this one experiment prove that it will always work or you will always be able to get guide data for unencrypted channels: absolutely not... can you expect to get guide data for unencrypted channels with a different (but functioning) "virgin" cablecard: maybe... will this method work in other cable markets, or on other cable systems (like Moto): maybe...

Cable has a government license to operate a monopoly... that monopoly provides cable with huge profits... since cable has no social/moral corporate conscience, it's kind of like having a license to steel... with the huge profits that cable rakes in, one would think they would be grateful, and showed a bit of gratitude by having fair and reasonable policies... making customers pay for services they don't want just to be able to receive guide data is not fair or reasonable.


----------



## clark_kent

clark_kent said:


> cableguy763, thank you for the clarification, I appreciate you getting back... I'm not looking for any spitting contest either... sorry about misunderstanding your comment regarding cable following FCC mandate... please accept my apology... had no intention of trowing any undeserved stones... I also did not intended to discredit your comments regarding the 800/802 cards and the label being the only difference... I have a big distrust of the cable industry... hope we're good and the community will continue to see your valued contributions... and one last note: when you say "with you in particular" I hope I have not inadvertently offended you (or anyone else) in some other post.


I re-read my last post (#170) and I should have made two separate posts... my first post should have just stopped with the above... and I should have made a second, seperate post to "clarify" the cablecard experiment...

The "clarification" part of my previous post (#170) might be misconstrued and perhaps (to some) sounded like I was still ragging on cableguy763... I was not, and I did not intend to sound as if I was... my apologies if that is how it came across to anyone.


----------



## sfhub

cableguy763 said:


> I do know that your testing of an 802 card in a tivo proved little. You DO NOT get encrypted channels. You never will if that card is not paired to the headend.


Pairing is only needed for CCI=non-zero channels. If your card is activated and the channel is authorized, the card will decrypt the channel. If CCI=0x00 you will be able to see the resulting channel.

If CCI=non-zero, then after the card decrypts, it will need to re-encrypt before sending the data across the bus to the TiVo. It is here that the pairing information is needed and if pairing is broken, the CableCARD will not be able to re-encrypt and you will not see the channel.

Pairing's main design goal is for copy protection.


----------



## docnaks

Wow, I'm getting very confused here. I hope someone can explain this to me in very simple terms.
I have a Series3 and an S2DT. I live in Hawaii and my father subscribes to TW Oceanic. He has the TW SA HD DVR; and subscribes to the HD package, HBO, Cinemax, etc (not that he even watches it...he's addicted to Korean dramas).
I don't use the S3 for HD programming...and don't plan to in the near future, because I don't have an HD TV yet (my wife says we need our own house first). Basically all I want to do is get the standard digital channels (I don't even care if I get any of the subscription channels, although it would be nice).
So if I went on Ebay and bought the right CableCards (I know I need 2), will it work? A simple yes or no will do. I don't need to know if it should or could work.

Thanks. Sorry for the dumb question, but all this talk of pairing and CCI is making my head swim.


----------



## clark_kent

docnaks said:


> Wow, I'm getting very confused here. I hope someone can explain this to me in very simple terms.
> I have a Series3 and an S2DT. I live in Hawaii and my father subscribes to TW Oceanic. He has the TW SA HD DVR; and subscribes to the HD package, HBO, Cinemax, etc (not that he even watches it...he's addicted to Korean dramas).
> I don't use the S3 for HD programming...and don't plan to in the near future, because I don't have an HD TV yet (my wife says we need our own house first). Basically all I want to do is get the standard digital channels (I don't even care if I get any of the subscription channels, although it would be nice).
> So if I went on Ebay and bought the right CableCards (I know I need 2), will it work? A simple yes or no will do. I don't need to know if it should or could work.
> 
> Thanks. Sorry for the dumb question, but all this talk of pairing and CCI is making my head swim.


Unfortunately (as with a lot of stuff), the answer to your question is not a simple "yes" or "no" ...

However, in your case, I don't think a cablecard will do all that much good (if any good at all) since you're not interested in HD programs... you don't need a cablecard for the "standard" channels... and, I don't know if the PQ between an "analog" KHNL channel 8 versus "digital" KHNLDT channel 88 is actually all that discernible... I think both channels (8/88) are 480i (SD)... so, why bother with the an ebay cablecard at all?


----------



## docnaks

Sorry, I should have clarified my reasoning for wanting some of the digital stations. My son loves PBS Kids (443), and my mom watches a lot of NGN (677). Being able to record shows on these digital stations would be great without that ugly STB.
So no dice, eh? Damn.


----------



## GiantsFan24

docnaks said:


> Sorry, I should have clarified my reasoning for wanting some of the digital stations. My son loves PBS Kids (443), and my mom watches a lot of NGN (677). Being able to record shows on these digital stations would be great without that ugly STB.
> So no dice, eh? Damn.


Yep, no dice. But is there a reason why you don't want to get a cablecard thru OTW (besides the obvious headache of dealing with OTW)? You're going to need the digital service anyway, and renting a cablecard is cheaper than renting a settop box. There are lots of horror stories on this forum about hassles getting cablecards to work, but my experience was short and sweet -- it took about an hour, and everything on both cablecards was working. And (I think), you don't need two cablecards if all you want is a single tuner. AFAIK, the S3 will work fine with a single card (but I'm happy to be corrected on this if other folks know different). So if you don't care about not getting most of the HD channels (you don't) and you already have the S3 (you do), it seems like you might as well get the cablecard(s) from OTW.


----------



## clark_kent

docnaks said:


> ... if I went on Ebay and bought the right CableCards (I know I need 2), will it work? A simple yes or no will do...


This question does not have a simple "yes" or "no" answer...



HawaiiTivoLover said:


> ... I installed the SA PowerKEY cablecard I bought on Ebay and did the guided setup and it didn't really work...


Some of the issues that may cause a cablecard to work or not work and makes the answer to your question a definite "maybe" are:

1. The cablecard you get on the open market (ebay, or where ever) may be defective, even if it is represented to be new.

2. The cablecard you get may not be defective but is perhaps de-activated or somehow crippled by cable company... maybe some cablecard experts can comment on this and let us know if in fact a cablecard can be rendered in-operable or somehow crippled.

3. If the cablecard you get is not defective and is not crippled, it may still not work. Even though the cablecard I tried did work without the magical "paring/authorizing," the card had been active and working (installed) in the Oceanic system... I don't know if "having been active in the system" is a factor or not.

HawaiiTivoLover got a cablecard on ebay and said that it did not work... if the reason it did not work is either 1 or 2 above, then a different card will "maybe" work but if the reason it did not work is number 3, then the answer is definitely "no, it will not work" and we're all sol (on getting guide data for local HD) until TiVo gives us the ability to edit the channel map/list...



docnaks said:


> Sorry, I should have clarified my reasoning for wanting some of the digital stations. My son loves PBS Kids (443), and my mom watches a lot of NGN (677). Being able to record shows on these digital stations would be great without that ugly STB.
> So no dice, eh? Damn.


Check the Oceanic channel list at:

http://www.oceanic.com/OceanicWebApps/Television/DigitalServices/DCL_Oahu.html

The result of one experiment demonstrated that all channels designated as "not available" for cablecard did not work and all Premium or PPV did not work; "Basic Service," "Value Service" and all "local HD" did work as did (most all) "Included with all Digital Services;" channel 677 is a "Premium Services" channel and did not work; channel 443 is a "Included with all "Digital Services" channel and it did work.

If you're the type that likes to take chances and experiment, get yourself a open market cablecard and play (if you do, let us know how you make out)... otherwise, don't bother... hope that helps.


----------



## docnaks

Thanks for the advice...will stick w/ basic for now. I have an S2DT hooked up to a STB to record 677 and 443. At least w/ MRV I can watch it on the S3.


----------



## Icarus

Icarus said:


> 1329 APLHD (Animal Planet)
> 1331 TLCHD
> 1333 DSCHD
> 1337 SCIHD
> 
> I'm not getting any programming on those channels on the S3, but the guide data is there.


Update: These channels come in on my OTW HD DVR but not on my S3. I talked to CSR last week. They tried to re-auth the cable cards, still nothing, so they scheduled a truck roll.

A week later, the truck gets here, the guy checks with his supervisor and tells me that they won't authorize these 4 channels on my CCs. But there's still no SDV on Maui. I have a call in to a foreman I've worked with before to try to find out what's going on there.

It seems silly that they had to do a truck roll just to tell me that CCs won't get these four channels, doesn't it?

I'll see what I can find out when the foreman calls me back.

-David


----------



## Icarus

I finally talked to a supervisor today. He said that they decided to not authorize the 4 new HD channels on CCs on Maui since they are moving to SDV in May on Maui. He had no real knowledge about the tuning resolver either.

He implied they would have had to do something to make the four new channels work on the CCs now (at least on the islands that don't have SDV yet), but I have no idea what that could be other than authorizing them on the CCs.

I really hope that the tuning resolver will be available soon.

I wonder if I'm the only on Maui with an S3 or THD.

-David


----------



## s1_junkie

Icarus said:


> II really hope that the tuning resolver will be available soon.
> -David


My understanding is Q2, so 3months. Of course, maybe I dont understand


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover

Aloha,
was wondering if there has been anyone on this forum that successfully installed after market CC's on their S3?
Been forced to use my TWC SA HD DVR and besides picture quality Sucks!
My S3 is mostly collecting dust waiting for the tuning resolver.


----------



## GiantsFan24

HawaiiTivoLover said:


> Been forced to use my TWC SA HD DVR and besides picture quality Sucks!
> My S3 is mostly collecting dust waiting for the tuning resolver.


Can you describe how your PQ sucks? I've also been forced to use their POS DVR, but I don't have a problem with picture quality. I just hate the interface and the consistency of response. For example, when I'm watching live TV and want to pause, it's a crapshoot as to whether the image will pause or the channel will freeze. I've given up trying to use the rewind button unless I pause first, because it's almost guaranteed to freeze the channel. And this is my second DVR from OTW -- I returned the first one because it wouldn't record scheduled recordings for about 10% of my shows. At least this one records the shows I schedule, so I can live with the other stuff. But I digress... Anyway, I'm curious as to what PQ problems you're having. Maybe you need to return the DVR for another one?


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover

GiantsFan24 said:


> Can you describe how your PQ sucks? I've also been forced to use their POS DVR, but I don't have a problem with picture quality. I just hate the interface and the consistency of response. For example, when I'm watching live TV and want to pause, it's a crapshoot as to whether the image will pause or the channel will freeze. I've given up trying to use the rewind button unless I pause first, because it's almost guaranteed to freeze the channel. And this is my second DVR from OTW -- I returned the first one because it wouldn't record scheduled recordings for about 10% of my shows. At least this one records the shows I schedule, so I can live with the other stuff. But I digress... Anyway, I'm curious as to what PQ problems you're having. Maybe you need to return the DVR for another one?


I actually meant that everything BUT the picture quality sucks, you listed a few of my issues with the twc dvr. When my S3 still had HD channels some of the channels especially NBC HD would pixelate pretty bad. But I would trade back in a heartbeat as not a day goes by that my DVR does something to piss me off.
Aloha


----------



## is2scooby

*Bump* in the hopes that someone has some good news. I *HATE* my TW DVR, and the fact that my beloved Tivo Series 3 is sitting in my entertainment center just collecting dust.

I am even considering purchasing a non-HD Tivo because the user interface and overall experience are missed so much. 

But then why the heck did I buy a plasma TV and pay for HD service every month for? Grrr...


----------



## jill808

we just moved into a new building downtown and there were some Oceanic reps at the place where we picked up our keys and stuff. i asked him about cable cards and whether they had any multistream cards available. he said they don't have that yet. 

this totally confused me because i've been reading this thread and several users have mentioned having multistream cable cards. so, do they exist or don't they? 

and, if i call and have them installed, do i lose any channels or can i still get analog stations as well as digital?


----------



## Icarus

The average rep doesn't know much about cable cards. Call and talk to somebody. They should transfer you to somebody that knows what they are.

-David


----------



## GiantsFan24

I agree, you should call OTW and find out if they have multistream cards. The rep you talked to may have thought you were talking about multi-directional cards (I just made that name up -- don't flame me), aka the Tuning Resolver. The tuning resolver has been in the industry news lately, but is not yet available, so maybe that's what he thought you were asking about.

As for whether you will lose any channels, it depends on what you have now. But the likely answer is yes. Until the tuning resolver is available, Tivos with cablecards cannot receive any switched digital video (SDV) channels. This includes most of the HD channels (except local channels and movie subscription channels like HBO/Showtime), as well as dozens of non-HD channels. OTW's website has a list of channels that cannot be received via cablecard. The list differs by island; Oahu's list is at http://www.oceanic.com/OceanicWebApps/Television/DigitalServices/DCL_Oahu.html


----------



## Drogo4

7 pages of a lot of reading here, I would like to sum it up.

HD Tivo Users are still missing out on dozens of Channels as of May 27, 2008.
I did however recieve a letter from Tivo saying they are working on a solution by the end of the year.


----------



## jesseramos

OTW does have Multi-Stream cards. I have one in my TivoHD here on Oahu.



jill808 said:


> we just moved into a new building downtown and there were some Oceanic reps at the place where we picked up our keys and stuff. i asked him about cable cards and whether they had any multistream cards available. he said they don't have that yet.
> 
> this totally confused me because i've been reading this thread and several users have mentioned having multistream cable cards. so, do they exist or don't they?
> 
> and, if i call and have them installed, do i lose any channels or can i still get analog stations as well as digital?


----------



## Drogo4

I called Time Warners corporate office and complained about them violationg the Telecommunications Act of 1996 by now allowing "equal access" to cable card customers, got 2 years free with their crappy DVR and they promised me they were working on a solution. I asked for that promise in writing.

Further, I recieved my bill today May 28th and noticed about $50 dollars worth of errors. I spoke with Jason (id 2050) the Manager at Oceanic Time Warner and he was surprised that I got the 2 years free as well as the many mistakes on my bill. 

He did make mention, that Time Warner was working on a solution that will be out by the end of the year. He also said that the OTW legal team will be contacting me tomorrow. I will have them put that in writing as well.

So I think this is first time confrimation from Time Warner about working on a full solution for Tivo users. 

FYI , did you know its actually cheaper to have Tivo than use their crappy DVR's? You get charged 9.95 for the DVR and another 7.52 for having a box (any box). Jason openly admited that I was getting charged twice for the same device. (smirk i smell class action... any one know a good lawyer?). I only get charged 9.95 monthly for Tivo service since I signed up so early.

Also if you call Tivo and let them know the situation, they will "freeze" your service for six months and let you keep your contract.

BTW i don't live in Poughkeepsie NY anymore i live in HNL.

~peace


----------



## s1_junkie

Tuning adapter demo versions are appearing:

http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport/howto/Switched_Video_Cable_Details.html

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-05/sdv-tuning-adapters-in-the-flesh/

I assume here in Hawaii we will need the Cisco (ex Scientific Atlanta) TA:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/05/19/hands-on-with-the-cisco-tuning-adapter-sta1520/

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/05/18/hands-on-with-the-motorola-tuning-adapter-mtr700/

Could happen.....


----------



## HiKent

Hi,

Last week Oceanic replaced the cablecards in my S3 -- I think I was chasing down a bug in 9.3a. On one of the cablecards (an M-Card), I don't get ESPNHD 1222. I still get DHD, TNT, HBO, as well as broadcast. When I called to complain, they told me I was lucky to get anything HD and referred me to the web site where it says cablecards aren't supported. The other cablecard (an S-Card) receives ESPN.

What does everyone else get? And who can I complain to if I'm supposed to be able to get ESPN? (The field supervisor told me I was out of luck.)

BTW: The supervisor had never heard of a "Tuning Adapter".


----------



## Icarus

On Maui, I'm still getting everything. There was a short period (if you look back in this thread) where I wasn't getting some of the new channels, but they did some sort of system upgrade one night, and after that I started getting everything again. I'm not getting the new channel 1000, but that's not a big deal to me.

I spoke to a supervisor on Maui when I didn't start getting the new channels, and he also had no idea what the tuning resolver was.

-David


----------



## s1_junkie

1) FYI, in Kona with a cable card the HD we get is : local broadcast + show + hbo + HDT + TNTHD. No other HD channels are available with CC, OTW will not sell the HD Entertainment Pak to CC users.

2) Some time in the last few days all the SD Encore channels except the base Encore (667 -> 672) channel went dark. A quick trip to the web site shows these are now 'not with CC'. Grrr.. This morning I tried to call TWC legal in NYC (see my post #154 in this thread) that number 1 866 774 9098 is now the "TWC Cable Card Escalations Desk" - I left a message.....

But I thought you all might find that a "TWC Cable Card Escalations Desk" - 1 866 774 9098 - belongs on your speed dial.

3) I notice Cox will be providing Tuning Adapters free of charge but they dont say when, http://www.brooks-bilson.com/blogs/...vide-SDV-Tuning-Adapter-at-No-Additional-Cost . I wonder about OTW....


----------



## GiantsFan24

> 3) I notice Cox will be providing Tuning Adapters free of charge but they dont say when, http://www.brooks-bilson.com/blogs/...vide-SDV-Tuning-Adapter-at-No-Additional-Cost . I wonder about OTW....


In a letter to customers, a mainland TWC franchise wrote "We expect to be able to offer Tuning Adapters to customers with compatible UDCP's later this year. At that time we will provide you with additional information on availability and device compatibility. It is currently contemplated that the Tuning Adapter will be provided at no additional charge. In the meantime until the Tuning Adapter becomes available, a Time Warner Cable digital cable set-top box will be required to view channels migrated to SDV. In addition, certain non-TiVo UDCP models may not work with the Tuning Adapter." (This is in the SDV FAQ thread.)

AFAIK, franchises are able to set their own pricing, so there's no guarantee that OTW will offer it for free, but I vaguely remember getting a similar letter from OTW a month or so ago. So it's at least encouraging, though not an iron-clad guarantee.


----------



## HiKent

Finally, something nice to say about TWC Hawaii. They seem to have moved UHD to un-switched, just in time for the olympics. If I remember correctly, we got UHD (and KHNL-HD) just in time for the winter olympics 2.5 years ago.

Time to update those channel lists...


----------



## Goldwing2001

Hi Kent - I tried but I wasn't able to receive UHD. I'll try again on 8/8/08.


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## HiKent

Did you try UHD on 1605? That's the one that works for me. The UHD they added for the olympics (266) doesn't work -- nor do any of the other Olympic channels. If I remember correctly from the last olympics, TWC added copies of the NBC olympic channels in an unused block so you could surf easily. These may not be activated yet...

I'd be curious if you get 1605.

Kent


----------



## s1_junkie

I got a letter dated 7/29 from TWC announcing SDV starting on 9/2 (at first I thought the letter must have been delayed in the mail for a year but no the date is 2008). Attached was an unavailiable channel list, in numerical order this stops at 1321. Did any body else get this letter, am I missing a page?

The channel listing on the web for Kona now shows HD channels as available, which is just wierd. 

Also letter says expect to offer Tuning Adapter "later this year", "contemplated... at no additional charge". Nice to actually see that on TWC letterhead.


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover

s1_junkie said:


> I got a letter dated 7/29 from TWC announcing SDV starting on 9/2 (at first I thought the letter must have been delayed in the mail for a year but no the date is 2008). Attached was an unavailiable channel list, in numerical order this stops at 1321. Did any body else get this letter, am I missing a page?
> 
> The channel listing on the web for Kona now shows HD channels as available, which is just wierd.
> 
> Also letter says expect to offer Tuning Adapter "later this year", "contemplated... at no additional charge". Nice to actually see that on TWC letterhead.


great to have some hope we'll be using our S3's to watch HD again someday. any chance of posting a copy of that letter? thanks.


----------



## s1_junkie

HawaiiTivoLover said:


> any chance of posting a copy of that letter? thanks.


Attached the 3 pages from OTW, only change is I have redacted my personal info.


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## Icarus

I got the letter about the cutover to SDV on Maui. Effective date is Sept 2. (I guess maybe that's the Kahului/Hana lineup, since there's now a separate lineup listed for Lahaina/Molokai/Lanai. Not sure about the rest of the county. I live upcountry in Makawao.)

The letter at least mentioned the tuning resolver (they hope to have it available at the end of the year and they currently think there will be no extra charge for them.)

I'll see if I can post the letter somewhere when I get back home. The channel lineup isn't consistent with the letter. The channel list may have been truncated. (At least that's what I suspect based on everybody elses experience and the text in the rest of the letter.)

Did anybody notice all the other HD channels added for the olympics? It's already the 8th here where I am, and I left several olympics HD wishlists set up for while I'm away. I hope they record properly on those lower numbered HD olympics channels.

-David


----------



## Icarus

s1_junkie said:


> I got a letter dated 7/29 from TWC announcing SDV starting on 9/2 (at first I thought the letter must have been delayed in the mail for a year but no the date is 2008). Attached was an unavailiable channel list, in numerical order this stops at 1321. Did any body else get this letter, am I missing a page?
> 
> The channel listing on the web for Kona now shows HD channels as available, which is just wierd.
> 
> Also letter says expect to offer Tuning Adapter "later this year", "contemplated... at no additional charge". Nice to actually see that on TWC letterhead.


I should have read your post first.

Yes, that's the same letter I got, only I don't have SDV yet on Maui, like you do on the Big Island. I noticed the same thing about the channel list.

It's odd they sent it to you too.

-David


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover

s1_junkie said:


> Attached the 3 pages from OTW, only change is I have redacted my personal info.


thank you very much for posting those letters. should be some helpful ammo when OTWC Oahu tries to charge an arm and leg for the 2 Cable-Cards and tuning adapter when it comes out.
Has anyone on Oahu received any similar correspondence?


----------



## Goldwing2001

HiKent said:


> Did you try UHD on 1605? That's the one that works for me. The UHD they added for the olympics (266) doesn't work -- nor do any of the other Olympic channels. If I remember correctly from the last olympics, TWC added copies of the NBC olympic channels in an unused block so you could surf easily. These may not be activated yet...
> 
> I'd be curious if you get 1605.
> 
> Kent


Kent,
I can't receive channel 1605 or any of the other NBC olympic channels.


----------



## s1_junkie

OTW busted (sort of):

"I. INTRODUCTION
1. In this Notice of Apparent Liability for Forfeiture (NAL), we find that Oceanic Time Warner Cable (Oceanic), a subsidiary of Time Warner Cable, Inc. (collectively, TWC) apparently willfully violated Section 76.1603(c) of the Commission's Rules (Rules).1 Specifically, Oceanic failed to provide the requisite thirty (30) day advanced written notice to the Hawaii Department of Commerce and Consumer Affairs, Cable Television Division, which serves as the local franchise authority (LFA) for the State of Hawaii, before implementing a service change caused by the migration of certain channels to its Switched Digital Video (SDV) platform on September 24, 2007. We conclude, pursuant to Section 503(b) of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended (Act),2 that Oceanic is apparently liable for a forfeiture in the amount of seven thousand five hundred dollars ($7,500)."

Read the full document here: http://www.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2008/db0822/DA-08-1960A1.pdf

Obviously $7500 is trivial, but I assume this is a 'black mark' and OTW will presumably not want to collect these. Interesting to me is that OTW is not busted for changing service the CCard users, but for not telling the State regulator in advance of the changes. Also clause 13 talkes about possible fines for continuing violation.

Perhaps OTW will be nice to us now? I did get a phone message asking if I got the letter (see previous post), and I notice that the Encore channels that were due to go dark on Labor Day are still there. One can always hope.


----------



## Icarus

Got a new letter today, since the September date came and went.

The new date here for me is Oct 21. The letter is similar to the previous one, except the channel list is complete this time.

-David


----------



## s1_junkie

Yes, I got that letter too.

Somehow I am reminded of the movie Total Recall, the head bad guy at the Mars colony tries to changes the peoples behavior by turning off their air. Come the revolution.....


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover

I'm an Oahu OTW customer that has never received any correspondance from them about SDV.
Would you guys mind posting the letter.
Thanks


----------



## s1_junkie

HawaiiTivoLover said:


> Would you guys mind posting the letter.
> Thanks


here....


----------



## docnaks

I recently purchased a new home in Honolulu and I'm getting ready to call Oceanic to set up new cable service. I already have an S3 and S2DT. Up until now, I have only used the S3 without CCs (long story). I am wondering if I should even set up CC service since the SDV tuning adapter is in limbo (with availability possibly at the end of this year? it's already October). Most of the TV I watch and record is network TV (FOX, ABC, CBS, NBC). My questions:
1) In Hawaii, can we receive clear QAM signals through Oceanic?
2) If we can, I was thinking of this set up (I will have 2 HD capable TVs)
-TV 1 (Pioneer Elite): w/ S3 (HD through clear QAM, no cable cards), Oceanic HD box (w/ no DVR)
-TV 2 (LCD): w/ S2DT, Oceanic HD box (w/ no DVR)
That way, I can watch, but not record, the SDV channels, and record the HD channels that I do watch.

Are there any other suggestions? Or should I get the CCs and hope that the tuning adapter comes out?


----------



## Icarus

The HD versions of the network channels will not be SDV. Also HBOHD and SHOHD will not be SDV. I have no idea if we're supposed to be getting MAXHD or not, because it doesn't come in on my CC-enabled S3. It's the rest of the HD cable network channels that are going SDV. (ESPNHD, History HD, HDNET, TBSHD, etc).

I have no idea about your QAM questions, but it seems to me that the CCs would work for you based on what you said, and eventually we'll get the tuning adapters for the rest of the lineup that's going to SDV.

Will they still "sell" you the CCs? There were some earlier reports about people not being able to get them.

---------------

Meanwhile, I've been converting my HD-based season passes to wishlists, so I can just remove the HD category from the wishlist when they turn on SDV, and tivo will switch to the lower numbered channel to record the program.

-David


----------



## clark_kent

docnaks said:


> I recently purchased a new home in Honolulu and I'm getting ready to call Oceanic to set up new cable service. I already have an S3 and S2DT. Up until now, I have only used the S3 without CCs (long story). I am wondering if I should even set up CC service since the SDV tuning adapter is in limbo (with availability possibly at the end of this year? it's already October). Most of the TV I watch and record is network TV (FOX, ABC, CBS, NBC). My questions:
> 1) In Hawaii, can we receive clear QAM signals through Oceanic?
> 2) If we can, I was thinking of this set up (I will have 2 HD capable TVs)
> -TV 1 (Pioneer Elite): w/ S3 (HD through clear QAM, no cable cards), Oceanic HD box (w/ no DVR)
> -TV 2 (LCD): w/ S2DT, Oceanic HD box (w/ no DVR)
> That way, I can watch, but not record, the SDV channels, and record the HD channels that I do watch.
> 
> Are there any other suggestions? Or should I get the CCs and hope that the tuning adapter comes out?


The networks you listed are "in-the-clear" and you can record them in HD on the S3 w/out CC's. But, you will need to set up "manual" recordings since there will be no guide data from TiVo. Setting up manual recordings is no big deal, but it gets worst. "Manual" is not like "season pass" so "manual" will not follow any change to scheduling, and when you go to look for a manually recoded program, the "title" of the program will not be listed. ALL manual recordings are ALL titled "manual" so you need to keep a paper list of manual recordings as to date/time/channel/program name to find and play a manual recorded program. It would be nice if TiVo allowed for manual QAM mapping and for you to get guide data based on that, but it does not work like that.

You probably should try getting CC's, since "manual" QAM recording is a pain, however, Oceanic is probably the most aggressive ANTI-CC cable operator on the planet, and they are not fond of TiVo either.


----------



## Loki

I'm in a similar situation, just moved into Honolulu a couple months ago. Have you tried plugging in a set top UHF antenna yet? I get all the majors in hi-def with solid signal in Pacific Heights. It's worked out so well I'm debating if I even want to go with the cc and tuning resolver once its available. Not paying a monthly bill for TV has been refreshing since I moved.


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## mauigirl

I use the cablecards in my series 3 but DON'T PAY for the HD programming. I get the four networks in HD, plus PBS and TNT for free and most of what I Tivo is on the nets (aside from Eureka and Mad Men). 

They continue to call and try to explain to me why I should turn in my cablecards for a free box. I've told them until they give me the tuning resolver, they'll not get my money for HD programing. I would rather have a working Tivo than their crappy DVR. And my cable bill went from over $100 to $75. I'm even thinking of going to DSL instead of the cable modem just because I don't want to give them any of my money. 

And Oceanic is anti-Cablecard. I had to demand that they send an installer out with two cards. The CSR continued to say that they would not work and that I needed two cable boxes. I told her the FCC mandated that they provide cable cards. She said, "we don't have to provide cablecards that work."


----------



## docnaks

Thank for the tips, especially the one from mauigirl. I didn't realize you could get the CCs without the HD package, and still get the major networks on HD. I'll probably set it up that way at first, and add the HD package once (if ever) the tuning resolver is available.


----------



## clark_kent

docnaks said:


> Thank for the tips, especially the one from mauigirl. I didn't realize you could get the CCs without the HD package, and still get the major networks on HD. I'll probably set it up that way at first, and add the HD package once (if ever) the tuning resolver is available.


Could you keep us posted on your progress on acquiring CC's from Oceanic and not getting forced into paying for the HD package.


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover

Loki said:


> I'm in a similar situation, just moved into Honolulu a couple months ago. Have you tried plugging in a set top UHF antenna yet? I get all the majors in hi-def with solid signal in Pacific Heights. It's worked out so well I'm debating if I even want to go with the cc and tuning resolver once its available. Not paying a monthly bill for TV has been refreshing since I moved.


you are the lucky exception on Oahu to get the local stations over the air. due to topography most people (including myself in st louis hghts) get nothing.
Lets all hope the tuning resolver is released soon.


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover

s1_junkie said:


> here....


Thanks for posting S1_junkie.


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## rv65

HawaiiTivoLover said:


> you are the lucky exception on Oahu to get the local stations over the air. due to topography most people (including myself in st louis hghts) get nothing.
> Lets all hope the tuning resolver is released soon.


Comcast says they will get some in by next week for their SDV deployments in the mainland. Comcast has only a handful of SDV areas. The tuning resolver can be installed without the need of a truckroll. It does require you to run guided setup again but thats no big deal. Guided setup is super easy. Time Warner may get some later though. No word on Oceanic.


----------



## kiko

I finally got a call back from a non CSR, Oceanic is hoping to have the tuning adapter before the end of the year, but it WILL require a truck roll. I asked why a truck roll would be required and the answer is "that's what we have been told to tell customers."


----------



## rv65

Yet Comcast says it can be installed at home. The good news is that the device will be free.


----------



## spleen93

Here's hoping that the tuning adaptor comes out sooner rather than later ... I love my S3 Tivo but getting tired of getting gyped of all of the HD channels that are out there that are on SDV. (sigh) Oceanic sucks ... I'd trade all of the Pizza Hut order-from-my-cable-box type channels for non SDV HD channels.


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover

heres an interesting, related thread: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=408002&highlight=hawaii


----------



## Todd B.

So, I have some good(-ish) news about Oceanic. In summary, the Tuning Adapters are being worked on here in Hawaii, and will be made available.

I had an old technical contact at Oceanic that I spoke to a long time ago, since Oahu was an early and aggressive SDV adopter. Fortunately, he was still there, and he has been working on the Tuning Adapters. He said they have devices on Oahu for testing purposes. They had some software issues initially that they had to fix, but they've gotten them working. So far it's only been lab testing, but they are continuing to test so they can roll it out as soon as they can. They also need to work on instituting the procedures on the customer service side, i.e. integrating it into the customer service flow, hardware tracking, deployment, etc.

Obviously, he couldn't give me any dates, but it's good to know there's been tangible progress here, and it sounds like it should be coming reasonably soon. If there hasn't been any word in a month or so, I might try calling him again for a status.

There is a Tuning Adapter waiting list that you can sign up for. Just call Customer Service at 643-2100 and explain that you're a TiVo CableCard customer and would like to be put on the waiting list for the Tuning Adapters.


----------



## docnaks

Called Oceanic 2 weeks ago to set up installation for 2 CC's. Scheduled for 11/4. The sales rep was very nice, even called me to confirm the installation date and time. No hassles, no sales pitch for the crappy SA DVR. I have a customer who is a CSR for Oceanic, and he confirmed that the tuning adapter is a work in progress, but will be available soon. In fact, he told me he's waiting for it to come out so he can buy a TiVo!


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## spleen93

Some of the best Tivo related news I've gotten in a while ... thanks guys!


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## s1_junkie

HawaiiTivoLover said:


> heres an interesting, related thread: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=408002&highlight=hawaii


indeed, thank you.


----------



## Icarus

I wonder if that's why they haven't turned it on yet in my area? I don't mind. 2 letters and 2 deadlines passed so far.

I think at one point I didn't think complaining to the FCC would work, but I was certainly wrong about that.

-David


----------



## s1_junkie

Todd B. said:


> .....
> .....There is a Tuning Adapter waiting list that you can sign up for. Just call Customer Service at 643-2100 and explain that you're a TiVo CableCard customer and would like to be put on the waiting list for the Tuning Adapters.


I tried, the CSR ('Misty') was very nice but told me there was no such list, and that OTW would be sending letters to Tivo CC customers when the TAs were availaible.


----------



## docnaks

Just had the CC's installed today. Unfortunately, I had to work, which meant my wife had to be there for the inevitable truck roll. When I got home to test the new set up...all I had was the set up screen! Something about acquiring channel or program information. The S3 couldn't even get a signal from the CCs. Took a closer look...the idiot hooked up the cable to their set-top box, then hooked the cable out to the S3 cable in. I took the TW box out of the loop and voila! HDTV! in all it's SDV glory!
One more update (I can't remember who asked), I did not get "forced" into purchasing the HD package for each CC. It was only offered.


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## Icarus

docnaks said:


> Took a closer look...the idiot hooked up the cable to their set-top box, then hooked the cable out to the S3 cable in.






> One more update (I can't remember who asked), I did not get "forced" into purchasing the HD package for each CC. It was only offered.


What? Do you have to pay the duplicate programming fee + HD package for each CC like the rest of us? Wait till you actually see your first bill. (You have an S3, so you needed two CCs, right?)

There's still 2 or 3 HD channels I'm not getting. MAXHD, and a couple of other non-subscription HD channels don't come in on my CCs. Of course, everything comes in on their ridiculous HD-DVR in the living room (which I never use.)

-David


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## s1_junkie

Today I got a letter from OTW which said in part (the rest was fluff):
"To preorder a Tuning Adapter, please visit http://www.timewarnercable.com/tuningadapter or call 643-2337."

The link goes to an SDV page which says in part: 
"For information on ordering a FREE Tuning Adapter, enter your ZIP Code", but it doesnt recognise Hawaii zip codes.

I called, the CSR knew nothing of the letter or pre-ordering TAs; but said he would escalate and OTW will call me........


----------



## s1_junkie

TWC called today (it only took a month), and left a message.

Apparently I am going to loose my premium channels (Encore & Showtime)
today! 

TA will be available "next month".


----------



## Icarus

I didn't think they were moving the premium channels to SDV?

If/when they enable SDV, I expect to lose ESPNHD, TBSDH, NGCHD, HDNET, etc. But not HBOHD and SHOHD and the broadcast HDs. (and then there's the 4 or 5 that I've never gotten on my S3, like MGMHD, MAXHD, DISNHD, TRAVHD, etc.)

Let us know what the result is please. If you can't get the premium channels, are they still going to charge you for them? (netflix is live.)

-David


----------



## Icarus

Take a look at this page:

http://www.oceanic.com/OceanicWebApps/Television/Television.html



> In addition, from time to time we make certain changes in the services that we offer in order to better serve our customers. The following changes are planned:
> 
> On or about January 15, 2009 we will add KFVE to our digital lineup on Channel 1005. We also plan to add Major League Baseball Channel, Chiller, Sci Fi HD and CNBC HD by January 31, 2009.
> 
> The new services listed below cannot be accessed on CableCARD-equipped Unidirectional Digital Cable Products purchased at retail without additional, two-way capable equipment: Major League Baseball Channel, Chiller, Sci Fi HD and CNBC HD.


-David


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## Icarus

I just looked at the channel lineup, yeah Starz and Encore are going to SDV, but not Showtime (standard or hi-def) and MaxHD and TMCHD are going SDV according to the lineup for Kahului.

Let us know if the call was real or not, s1. Which island are you on?

-David


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## Icarus

s1 .. they called me today too saying that I would lose the SDV channels today. Offered the "free" DVR again, said "no" again.

I still don't believe them. No change yet. Still no credibility. They really want us to stop using our Tivos I guess.

-David


----------



## s2krazy

I have another thread on the reasons why (see:http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6906669&posted=1#post6906669) but I'm thinking of ordering a refurbished Tivo HD. I'm on Oahu and so I'm guessing hat I'll have to call Oceanic to schedule the installation of cable cards? Are you charged per card? How does this affect your bill?

Also, what does the Tivo do if (for example) I tell it to record Mythbusters on Discovery HD but this channel is on SDV? Does it automatically choose the regular SD channel?


----------



## Icarus

You will uncheck the SDV channels in the channel list until they give you the tuning resolver, which might be available soon. They were saying the end of the year, now they are saying January. Who knows when it will really be available. If you read other threads in this forum, you know that the tuning resolver is out there and available. Now, it's just that OTW is being slow to roll it out.

If you tell Tivo to record Mythbusters on Discovery HD, that's what it will try to do. If you use a wishlist for Mythbusters, it will attempt to record it on any available channel. Since you unchecked Discovery HD, it will only find it on Discovery and record it there. Later when the tuning resolver is available, you can modify the wishlist or replace it with a season pass tied to the HD channel.

If Tivo has a choice of 2 channels for a show, Tivo will record from the lower numbered channel. In our case, that means you don't get the HD one automatically unless you use a season pass or specific channel recording or specify HD in the wishlist, which doesn't always give you the results you might expect. It's manageable, and you'll figure it out. Some people manage it by unchecking the SD version of the channel in the available channel list, so Tivo only sees that the show is available on the HD channel. (I do that with most of the analog broadcast channels.) I would say that if you ask 3 different people how they manage this, you will probably get 3 different answers. You will find the best method that works for you. It's all very manageable.

If you get a Tivo HD, you should get one multi-channel card, and in that case, you can avoid some of the duplicate service and other charges that those of that have S3s have to pay. The S3 needs two CCs. The HD and HD XL can use a single multi-channel card in place of 2 CCs with the same results. The amount they charge will vary depending on what other services you have. I pay $8 x2 (per CC) for duplicate service. Most people end up paying another $6.95 x1 or x2 for two CCs, for the HD package, which is charged per outlet. If it's not duplicate service, the charges are a little different. In that case, they charge you for your packages + a CC rental fee, I think.

-David


----------



## s2krazy

Icarus said:


> If you get a Tivo HD, you should get one multi-channel card, and in that case, you can avoid some of the duplicate service and other charges that those of that have S3s have to pay. ....In that case, they charge you for your packages + a CC rental fee, I think.
> -David


David,
Thanks for the detailed reply, it was far more than expected. I just called Oceanic and the rep I spoke with Nicole and she said I'll be replacing my 7.95 cable box rental with a single 3.10 rental for the cablecard. I specifically asked if there was a price difference for a multistream card and she said no. I am skeptical, but will take it at face value. She also said I'll need a one time $32 installation fee. It seems that dropping my phone line is costing me a lot more money than I had ever imagined....


----------



## s2krazy

BTW, when I was scheduling my installation, I asked the rep about the tuning adapter and he knew exactly what I was talking about. When I asked if he had seen it, he said yes, it looks like a router with a simple 'cable in' and 'cable out' and a power adapter. His opinion was January deployment.


----------



## s1_junkie

Well it looks like OTW were simply trying to jerk my chain.

I recieved a second call which I was here to answer, "would I like a STB?", "no thank you". Oh and, Showtime is not going away at all, Encore will go away "next week".

Sounds like Icarus got the same call as my first one; I dont know who plans this strategy, but the word clueless comes to mind.

(Icarus: I'm on the Big Island). 

Off topic but since Icarus pointed it out: I tried Netflix streaming yesterday, works well: approx SD quality with no blocking or breakup of video. Bad news is (unlike Amazon) Netflix does not really use the TiVo UI: Netflix queue is not located in "now playing" but found by selecting Netflix; and play/pause etc. are Netflix graphics not TiVo. The good news is (unlike Amazon) there is a reasonable selection and the web site is great. And its free for first 2 weeks.


----------



## dreamwish

s1_junkie said:


> Today I got a letter from OTW which said in part (the rest was fluff):
> "To preorder a Tuning Adapter, please visit http://www.timewarnercable.com/tuningadapter or call 643-2337."
> 
> The link goes to an SDV page which says in part:
> "For information on ordering a FREE Tuning Adapter, enter your ZIP Code", but it doesnt recognise Hawaii zip codes.


Oceanic now has an SDV page on their Televisions section of their web site.

That SDV page has a link to a form to add yourself to the Tuning Adapter waiting list!


----------



## Icarus

I lost 5 HD channels the other day, but I have no idea if it's SDV related or not. There's a few I've never gotten on my S3, like MaxHD, Disney HD, 1000.

These are the channels I lost: UHD, SCIHD, Animal Planet HD, TLCHD, and PLDHD.

All the channels come 1n on the OTW HD DVR in the living room.

Of course, they sent out a tech. The first thing she said is that cable cards are being phased out, so you know where that went. Her supervisor insisted that SDV is active here, but the people I spoke to in the office said it isn't active. When asked for the list of which channels are on SDV now, he pretty much started rattling off the entire list from the letters we've received. They are really clueless about all of this.

Just another day at OTW, I guess.

-David


----------



## bueller555

I pulled the trigger and just ordered my Tivo HD from Amazon. I hope that I didn't make a mistake, but in researching this SDV issue, the major network channels will remain (Fox-1003, ABC-1006, etc.) The list of channels that won't be available to me can be found on this Oceanic page. Using this page, I unselected all and had it only display the channels "Not available on CableCARDs". The list is sizable, but with the exception of the HD Pack channels, I don't think that I'll really miss them. I'm looking forward to getting a Tivo and getting rid of the SA8300HD.


----------



## Icarus

The updated channel listing for Kahului is pretty accurate. I'm not getting most of the channels marked as SDV now. (Some of the lower numbered channels marked as SDV are still coming in ATM, but those are garbage channels .. shopping, etc.)

I'm not all that happy about some of the HD channels I lost, but it isn't yet that entire list they were talking about.

-David


----------



## bueller555

I scheduled a cable card install for my Tivo for next week and the Oceanic person said that I'll lose my surf pack discount because of my switch to cable card. I'm going to call again and see if this is true or if I can trade my dvr down to a stb and drop my HD pack, but still install the cable card. In theory, I still come out ahead even if I unplug and stuff the stb into a closet. If they insist that they can't do that then I'm switching my phone and Internet back to Hawn Telcom because there would be no pricing advantage by staying with Oceanic.


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover

dreamwish said:


> Oceanic now has an SDV page on their Televisions section of their web site.
> 
> That SDV page has a link to a form to add yourself to the Tuning Adapter waiting list!


thanks for posting the links to the oceanic TA page. I hope all the fellow Oceanic customers register on that site and keep posting any progress in this forum.


----------



## Icarus

Well, they added 1005, K5 HD. Is anybody with a cable card getting it? It's not an SDV channel according to their lineup, but I can't get it on my S3. (It shouldn't be SDV in any case, because it's a broadcast channel.)

I've also lost channels like 85, 87, etc on my S3, which are also not listed as SDV channels. I guess if I want to watch/record something on K5, I will have to record it from analog channel 5 now on the S3.

All of them come in fine on the crappy OTW HD DVR in the living room, of course.

They added several new HD cable channels, including Scifi-HD, all SDV.

I'm going to try a restart.

-David


----------



## Todd B.

1005, 85, and 87 all work fine for me on my Tivo HD. I am on Oahu, though.

I'm going to follow up with my Oceanic contact next week, since it's been a couple months since I talked to him, and still no Tuning Adapter. Although the preorder form is nice, maybe he'll be able to give me a better idea how far down the pipeline the process is.


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover

Todd B. said:


> I'm going to follow up with my Oceanic contact next week, since it's been a couple months since I talked to him, and still no Tuning Adapter. Although the preorder form is nice, maybe he'll be able to give me a better idea how far down the pipeline the process is.


please keep us informed on any news and/or info you get
aloha


----------



## Todd B.

Talked to the Oceanic guy. He said they are working out some of the final details. It's close, but not quite there yet. He knows that it's taking a little longer than we'd like, but he said they really are getting close now.

He did confirm that they're going to require a truck roll to install.

And I'd recommend that if you haven't already signed up on the pre-order form that you should go ahead and do that.

http://www.oceanic.com/OceanicWebApps/Television/SDV/sdv.html


----------



## lrhorer

Todd B. said:


> He did confirm that they're going to require a truck roll to install.


That is precisely what several people from TWC told me when I inquired about the TA, but when they actually deployed them this monday, we were told to pick them up ourselves at one of two different TWC offices. I picked up 3 and installed them. There was a city-wide problem on 2 channels, whihc was fixed on Tuesday, and since then we've been golden. OF course this does not mean Oceanic will follow suit, but I wouldn't be surprised if they do. Installation and activation of the TA is simple.


----------



## ciper

From my understanding of the cable system the TA can be pre-authorized on the network just like a cable modem or cable box so there is no reason a tech needs to be onsite.

Are they going to be charging for these truck rolls?


----------



## Todd B.

lrhorer said:


> That is precisely what several people from TWC told me when I inquired about the TA


I'm not sure who you talked to in your location, but if it was CSR-level type people, then it's not surprising that they might have been mis-informed. If you didn't see my earlier post, this guy I'm talking to is the actual guy who is doing all the technical work to test and deploy the TA's, so I'm assuming he's a little more in the loop as to how they're going to deploy. Obviously, I would love it if they did self-install. Maybe they'll be doing truck rolls for the first batch, and then change to self-install once they've gotten all the bugs worked out and realize they don't need to truck roll it.



ciper said:


> Are they going to be charging for these truck rolls?


Unfortunately, I did not ask about that. I guess I assumed that since the TA is free, there wouldn't be any charge for the truck roll, but that's a baseless assumption, especially with Oceanic.


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover

Wow, it feels like were getting closer to actually having a functioning S3/HDTivo again in Hawaii. so happy


----------



## clark_kent

So, our analog to digital cutover has come and gone, and all is well in the O$eanic land of Paradi$e.

But, wait a minute, I had though that the point of going to all digital was to free up all that analog bandwidth so we can have more digital, and in particular, more HD cable channels. You know, more PPV, more OD/iND, more Pizza ordering, more Info, more Shopping, more Answers OD, etc, etc.

I also thought that post "Analog Cutoff" would result in Oceanic's lineup having NO analog (frequency) channels at all, and all former analog channels would only be carried on digital (QAM frequency) channels.

Well, it looks like the old analog channels are all still there, on analog frequencies.

Does anyone have any thoughts as to why Oceanic would still continue to carry all the old analog channels on analog frequencies?

I wonder if Comcast and the other Time Warner markets are going to be doing the same thing when they cut over?


----------



## cableguy763

clark_kent said:


> So, our analog to digital cutover has come and gone, and all is well in the O$eanic land of Paradi$e.
> 
> But, wait a minute, I had though that the point of going to all digital was to free up all that analog bandwidth so we can have more digital, and in particular, more HD cable channels. You know, more PPV, more OD/iND, more Pizza ordering, more Info, more Shopping, more Answers OD, etc, etc.
> 
> I also thought that post "Analog Cutoff" would result in Oceanic's lineup having NO analog (frequency) channels at all, and all former analog channels would only be carried on digital (QAM frequency) channels.
> 
> Well, it looks like the old analog channels are all still there, on analog frequencies.
> 
> Does anyone have any thoughts as to why Oceanic would still continue to carry all the old analog channels on analog frequencies?
> 
> I wonder if Comcast and the other Time Warner markets are going to be doing the same thing when they cut over?


Cable co's have to continue to carry analog cable until 2012.


----------



## spleen93

Todd B. said:


> Talked to the Oceanic guy. He said they are working out some of the final details. It's close, but not quite there yet. He knows that it's taking a little longer than we'd like, but he said they really are getting close now.
> 
> He did confirm that they're going to require a truck roll to install.


Good to know - glad to hear that we're getting closer to getting the TA.


----------



## s2krazy

Todd B. said:


> Talked to the Oceanic guy. He said they are working out some of the final details. It's close, but not quite there yet. He knows that it's taking a little longer than we'd like, but he said they really are getting close now.
> 
> He did confirm that they're going to require a truck roll to install.
> 
> And I'd recommend that if you haven't already signed up on the pre-order form that you should go ahead and do that.
> 
> http://www.oceanic.com/OceanicWebApps/Television/SDV/sdv.html


I tried this site the first time it was posted, and the mail came back 'undeliverable' However, this time it took and I got a confirmation e-mail. I have my fingers crossed we'll get it soon!


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## s2krazy

Spoke to a rep, she said they are staggering the mailings of the letters. They started sending them (the letters) out on Jan 5th to those on the list. She said its an over the counter pick up.


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## bueller555

Too bad we can't do an over-the-counter pickup of cablecards too.


----------



## rover1

s2krazy said:


> Spoke to a rep, she said they are staggering the mailings of the letters. They started sending them (the letters) out on Jan 5th to those on the list. She said its an over the counter pick up.


Just curious what the "letters" say. Does anyone know? A store pick-up would be awesome.


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## Goldwing2001

I received a letter from Oceanic saying my pre-ordered tuning adapter is available, to call and schedule an install. The letter also said the Tuning Adapter (TA) is free. Friday (1/30/09) a tech will be coming by to do the install. Hopefully all goes well...


----------



## Ninja

I got the same letter today. I had to read it twice to make sure I wasn't dreaming it.


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## bueller555

Article by Erika Engle in today's Star Bulletin: Oceanic and parent facing hefty fines


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## Todd B.

My truck roll is scheduled for Feb. 4 install of TA.

I recommend that you call and schedule yours ASAP. My Oceanic contact indicated to me last week that they had a limited number of TA's on island.



s2krazy said:


> Spoke to a rep, she said they are staggering the mailings of the letters. They started sending them (the letters) out on Jan 5th to those on the list. She said its an over the counter pick up.


I'm not sure what she's talking about. Nothing I've heard at all corroborates any of that.


----------



## lrhorer

bueller555 said:


> Article by Erika Engle in today's Star Bulletin: Oceanic and parent facing hefty fines


Whoever the reporter is needs to learn something about finance. She calls $97,000 a "hefty fine". TWC pulls in that much revenue in less than an hour - about 50 minutes, actually. It's loose change.


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## snakpak

Goldwing2001 said:


> I received a letter from Oceanic saying my pre-ordered tuning adapter is available, to call and schedule an install. The letter also said the Tuning Adapter (TA) is free. Friday (1/30/09) a tech will be coming by to do the install. Hopefully all goes well...


I feel so relieved that I can finally blab that I've been beta testing the TA for the past month. I picked it up from my buddy at Oceanic and installed it myself. At first it seemed like the SDV HD channels weren't working, but then I realized that I didn't have the HD Pak on my cable cards. Once I got that enabled, everything just works like its supposed to.

It's a beautiful thing.

snakpak


----------



## rover1

I called Oceanic on Saturday evening after getting my letter in the mail and the lady set me up for TA install this afternoon between 1450-1650. The guy(s) called about 1310 and said they could be here by 1330---earlier than expected but more than welcome. There was one Oceanic guy and a new contract guy with him in training. The Oceanic guy said that I was his first install and that actually they were supposed to set up the installs starting next week and the installers would get about 5 days notice before an install....but since they had promised me today, he had gone to Mililani to get the TA and got a quick training session. Final outcome is that they did the install and called back to HQ to get the hit....the 1st person they talked with had no clue so he told her to just forget it and he would go through the team. When he got those folks, the first lady had removed the work order.....so they got that straightened out and we got hit and had a period of 8 blinks....some more phone calls went back and forth and we finally got the steady light on the TA....and the Tivo HDXL screen showed a TA hooked up......but none of the SDV channels would come in....just a grey screen. After some more calls they did another hit and we actually removed power to TA and repowered it up. Back to the solid light.....but no SDV channels at all. They were stumped and finally left about 1530--they are going to have someone come over tomorrow and check out the building (???) and also my wiring....after they left I do notice that all the lower analog channel numbers and channels like Court TV 119 and HLN 111 are now rather fuzzy. In the diagnostics pages for the TA there is a spot that says SDV channel=98 and another spot says Analog=no. He did say that I am probably only the 2nd one on Oahu so that may explain a lot of the problems (learning curves, etc). Any suggestions of anything I might do tonight to get myself up and running or should I just leave it until tomorrow (or whenever). I would hate to think it is something rather simple that could be fixed remotely. Other than that, it's a nice day in Waikiki.
Bill

FWIW....all my channels come in fine on the Oceanic DVR........


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## bueller555

Reboot from the Tivo menu? http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7021626#post7021626


----------



## snakpak

rover1 - 

Definitely try rebooting the Tivo. I did that several times when I was trying to debug my missing HD channels. It turned out that the channels were missing for another reason (no HD Pak on the CCs), so I don't know if rebooting actually did anything, but it can't hurt.

What SDV channels did you try? Remember that the on-demand, music choice, and other "special" packages won't work with the TA. And your HD channels won't work unless you have the HD Entertainment Pak enabled on your cable cards. 

I don't play much with the analog channels, but for sure you should be able to get 1108 (Fox Business Network HD) and 1325 (Travel Channel HD) with the TA even if you don't have the HD Pak.


----------



## Todd B.

snakpak said:


> I feel so relieved that I can finally blab that I've been beta testing the TA for the past month.


Haha, you must the one guy that he said they had testing it in the field. I omitted that from my reports before, because it was a little disconcerting that only one person was real-world testing it.



rover1 said:


> He did say that I am probably only the 2nd one on Oahu so that may explain a lot of the problems (learning curves, etc).


I thought about calling to try to bump up my install date, but now I think I'll leave it as is. Thanks for working out all the bugs in their procedures, Bill.  (and for the report)


----------



## rover1

snakpak said:


> rover1 -
> 
> Definitely try rebooting the Tivo. I did that several times when I was trying to debug my missing HD channels. It turned out that the channels were missing for another reason (no HD Pak on the CCs), so I don't know if rebooting actually did anything, but it can't hurt.


Duh.....I called Oceanic this evening and asked if my cablecard was auth for HD PAK....she said no--only the Oceanic DVR and an HD box attached to my PC. I said that might be the whole problem....she went away for some while and came back to tell me that I needed to be aware before she sent the auth for HD PAK to my card that it would only allow me to receive the local network channels 1003-1010 (which I was already getting). I told her yes and to please send the signal. Immediately all my SDV channels came in fine.....I haven't been through them all yet since I am recording something right now but at 2200 I will reboot everything and then go through all the channels to see if anything is missing.

If everything remains on tomorrow morning I will cancel the return visit by the installers.

Thanks to all for the great suggestions. I appreciate it more than you know.

Bill


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## lrhorer

Todd B. said:


> Haha, you must the one guy that he said they had testing it in the field. I omitted that from my reports before, because it was a little disconcerting that only one person was real-world testing it.


Well, think about how many Sereis III TiVo subscribers there are in the system. How many subs (total) does Oceanic have? It's possible there may be fewer than 100 Series III class TiVos in all their plant.


----------



## Icarus

lrhorer said:


> Well, think about how many Sereis III TiVo subscribers there are in the system. How many subs (total) does Oceanic have? It's possible there may be fewer than 100 Series III class TiVos in all their plant.


yes, it's possible. whenever somebody comes to my house they are baffled by my s3 + cc.

Sometimes I think I must be the only person on Maui using CCs. Nobody wants to talk about when there's a problem and there's usually a huge disconnect between the people at the call center and the service people. (oh, it's a cable card setup. they didn't tell us that.)

My TA install is scheduled for Feb 3. I can't believe when I got the callback the person on the other end insisted on me giving her some sort of PIN number, which I had no idea what it was. "Sir, we need the PIN for your protection to change your account". Me: "I'm not changing my account." "Sir, it's for your own protection" ... and so on and so on. I hate dealing with OTW.

I'm still not getting some of the non-sdv channels on my s3. (1005, 85, 87, 88, and a bunch more). I know the TA probably won't fix that problem either. We'll see. I only get K5 on channel 5 now. It's a good thing I don't watch it very often.

-David


----------



## snakpak

Todd B. said:


> Haha, you must the one guy that he said they had testing it in the field. I omitted that from my reports before, because it was a little disconcerting that only one person was real-world testing it.


Actually, my understanding is that I was number 2 in the state. 

rover1 - glad to read that you've got your SDV HD channels working! If you're using two cable cards, you may want to go into the Tivo's tuning adapter menu to test that both cards get all the channels you're supposed to get. Enjoy!


----------



## Todd B.

lrhorer said:


> Well, think about how many Sereis III TiVo subscribers there are in the system. How many subs (total) does Oceanic have? It's possible there may be fewer than 100 Series III class TiVos in all their plant.


It's actually around 700 on Oahu, if Oceanic's FCC filing is to be believed.


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## s1_junkie

Happy, happy, joy, joy. OTW delivered my TA today (I'm in Kona).

Seemed to work. I signed up for HD Pak and did some testing. Mostly works, but I have 3 channels that are always black, and 3 more that intermittently give the message "Temporarily Unavailable, press Select again". And indeed pressing Select brings the channel in. Resetting TiVoHD did not change the behavior. 

Started dialog with OTW, if anybody has any hints or suggestions please fire away.


----------



## mattack

cableguy763 said:


> Cable co's have to continue to carry analog cable until 2012.


For the OTA stations.. only if they don't go _entirely_ digital.


----------



## Icarus

Todd B. said:


> It's actually around 700 on Oahu, if Oceanic's FCC filing is to be believed.


CC users, or S3 users with CCs? Do they really break it down to the device level?

How many on Maui? 1? 

-David


----------



## Icarus

s1_junkie said:


> Happy, happy, joy, joy. OTW delivered my TA today (I'm in Kona).
> 
> Seemed to work. I signed up for HD Pak and did some testing. Mostly works, but I have 3 channels that are always black, and 3 more that intermittently give the message "Temporarily Unavailable, press Select again". And indeed pressing Select brings the channel in. Resetting TiVoHD did not change the behavior.
> 
> Started dialog with OTW, if anybody has any hints or suggestions please fire away.


That would suck if tivo tried to record a program from one of those. Which channels? Keep us posted, please. Thanks.

-David


----------



## s2krazy

Todd B. said:


> My truck roll is scheduled for Feb. 4 install of TA.
> 
> I recommend that you call and schedule yours ASAP. My Oceanic contact indicated to me last week that they had a limited number of TA's on island.
> 
> I'm not sure what she's talking about. Nothing I've heard at all corroborates any of that.


Sounds like I got bum information..... sigh.... typical! I'm glad some are getting their TAs. Can't wait for them to have one for me!


----------



## Todd B.

Icarus said:


> CC users, or S3 users with CCs? Do they really break it down to the device level?


CC subscribers, but wouldn't you imagine 99% of deployed CC's are in Tivos?


----------



## Icarus

Todd B. said:


> CC subscribers, but wouldn't you imagine 99% of deployed CC's are in Tivos?


The original question was about S3s. Whatever. It doesn't matter. You answered the question. Thanks.

-David


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover

Aloha! So happy to hear that the TA's are finally being installed, and jealous cause I was late signing up and way down on the list. So here's the question I'm almost afraid to ask:
Did Oceanic straighten out the CC/HD pack/Duplicate Services Double billing problem? I spent so many frustrating hours with oceanic back in the day trying to figure it out and hope they made a more reasonable pricing.
Mahalo, and enjoy having HD back on yout Tivo.


----------



## rover1

We're almost there. As of today the only problems remaining with my TA install is that MGM channel 1561 seems to have audio stutter almost all the time. It did it for the guys who came yesterday to check signal strength and do some minimal rewiring. (They also checked grainy reception on analog channels and the ones like 119 which are just remapped analog channels--per the installer. They checked main connections into the building and then they called and said they had tracked it back to some problem on Paoakalani Ave.....the same spot that got all messed up with the last power outage that knocked out cable for about a day.---area by Jefferson School in Waikiki). Now all analog channels are very clear.....the only thing missing now is Cinemax HD....channel 1622. When the guy calls back this afternoon to see if Encore package is working after he had the head end hit the cable card yesterday afternoon (it is working today) I will ask him to have them reauth Cinemax and see if the HD 1622 will work...if it does and we get the audio stutter fixed on 1561 I will be one happy camper. It's been a bit of a hassle with little things adding up but I must commend both the installers that originally came on Monday and the new pair that came yesterday....they were most helpful. Had some problems with calling in to the offices myself but since everything is so very new to them, I guess I can understand their lack of knowledge regarding the TIVO and the TA. Nobody has really badmouthed the Tivo itself.

BTW...my Tivo is the HDXL and there is 1 multi-stream cable card.

Bill--almost


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover

Just got a return call with an installation date and confirmed that they plan on charging duplicate service charge PER CableCard (2x$8) plus a $3 charge for additional CC card. So it costs at least $11 extra to have a functioning series 3 vs multistream tivoHD/XL.
Thats not right. Any Ideas how to fight this?
Here we go again.


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover

snakpak said:


> I feel so relieved that I can finally blab that I've been beta testing the TA for the past month. I picked it up from my buddy at Oceanic and installed it myself. At first it seemed like the SDV HD channels weren't working, but then I realized that I didn't have the HD Pak on my cable cards. Once I got that enabled, everything just works like its supposed to.
> 
> It's a beautiful thing.
> 
> snakpak


Since you are a beta tester, any chance you can relay to someone at Oceanic to revise their CC charges.(see my previous post). 
Mahalo


----------



## Icarus

HawaiiTivoLover said:


> Just got a return call with an installation date and confirmed that they plan on charging duplicate service charge PER CableCard (2x$8) plus a $3 charge for additional CC card. So it costs at least $11 extra to have a functioning series 3 vs multistream tivoHD/XL.
> Thats not right. Any Ideas how to fight this?
> Here we go again.


Nothing new there. That's the way it's always been with them.

BTW, it's more than $11. You have to pay for the HD package for each outlet. They consider the 2nd CC an additional outlet. You will probably pay the duplicate service fee + HD Package for the 2nd and subsequent CCs. If you pay the duplicate service fee, you don't end up paying the $3 CC rental fee.

The only way out of it is to have a single multi-stream card, which of course doesn't work for those of us that have an S3.

The reason it doesn't seem fair is that with their own dual-channel HD DVR, you would only pay 1 duplicate service fee + 1 HD package fee for the entire device, which has similar capabilities as the S3.

I think the difference is about $16 a month, plus taxes and fees.

-David


----------



## lrhorer

That blows chunks. I suggest you complain to your local franchise authority, pointing out you only have one device, not two, and that the exact same services on the CATV leased unit and on THDs get charged for only one outlet. I would also point out that while you can record on two different channels (just like the TWC DVR), you cannot *watch* two different channels simultaneously. The second CableCard is probably a wash, but the second outlet fee should not be.


----------



## Goldwing2001

rover1 said:


> We're almost there. As of today the only problems remaining with my TA install is that MGM channel 1561 seems to have audio stutter almost all the time. It did it for the guys who came yesterday to check signal strength and do some minimal rewiring. (They also checked grainy reception on analog channels and the ones like 119 which are just remapped analog channels--per the installer. They checked main connections into the building and then they called and said they had tracked it back to some problem on Paoakalani Ave.....the same spot that got all messed up with the last power outage that knocked out cable for about a day.---area by Jefferson School in Waikiki). Now all analog channels are very clear.....the only thing missing now is Cinemax HD....channel 1622. When the guy calls back this afternoon to see if Encore package is working after he had the head end hit the cable card yesterday afternoon (it is working today) I will ask him to have them reauth Cinemax and see if the HD 1622 will work...if it does and we get the audio stutter fixed on 1561 I will be one happy camper. It's been a bit of a hassle with little things adding up but I must commend both the installers that originally came on Monday and the new pair that came yesterday....they were most helpful. Had some problems with calling in to the offices myself but since everything is so very new to them, I guess I can understand their lack of knowledge regarding the TIVO and the TA. Nobody has really badmouthed the Tivo itself.
> 
> BTW...my Tivo is the HDXL and there is 1 multi-stream cable card.
> 
> Bill--almost


Bill - Oceanic is coming out tomorrow to install my TA. Any words of advice to make the install go smoothly?

Thanks,
Tony


----------



## rover1

Goldwing2001 said:


> Bill - Oceanic is coming out tomorrow to install my TA. Any words of advice to make the install go smoothly?
> 
> Thanks,
> Tony


 Hi Tony.....here's hoping that all goes well with your install....I think that if you're sure that your cable card is authorized for everything you're supposed to be getting (mine actually wasn't and I didn't know it right away) then the physical install is really nothing......just hook up some wires. Do you already have the CC installed? My installer just called to see if the stuttering audio on 1561 was fixed--it isn't, but playing with pause/play one or more times will clear it up at least until I change channels...and also to see if I get Cinemax HD yet--and I don't. I asked if maybe they could authorize for either Starz or TMC (which I don't subscribe to) for a half hour or so to see if the HD channel for it will authorize--if it does then it would seem there is something wrong with the Cinemax HD channel reception on the TIVO. I understand that the TA may not be able to receive -every- TWC SDV channel and it might be that Cinemax HD/Starz HD/TMC HD just won't work no matter what. If that's the case I always have the normal Cinemax anyway and I could live with that--but if it's supposed to work and doesn't, then it would be worth following up on. He did suggest that maybe it is the CC itself (who knows?) so they are bringing a new card tomorrow at 1300 to try out---I just told him to be sure that it is a Multistream card and not 2 Singlestream ones.

So I wish you good luck and an easy install......I must say that the tech guys in the field have been more than helpful with their followup work. I have no complaints in that department. They really are going the extra mile for me.

Bill


----------



## Goldwing2001

rover1 said:


> Hi Tony.....here's hoping that all goes well with your install....I think that if you're sure that your cable card is authorized for everything you're supposed to be getting (mine actually wasn't and I didn't know it right away) then the physical install is really nothing......just hook up some wires. Do you already have the CC installed? My installer just called to see if the stuttering audio on 1561 was fixed--it isn't, but playing with pause/play one or more times will clear it up at least until I change channels...and also to see if I get Cinemax HD yet--and I don't. I asked if maybe they could authorize for either Starz or TMC (which I don't subscribe to) for a half hour or so to see if the HD channel for it will authorize--if it does then it would seem there is something wrong with the Cinemax HD channel reception on the TIVO. I understand that the TA may not be able to receive -every- TWC SDV channel and it might be that Cinemax HD/Starz HD/TMC HD just won't work no matter what. If that's the case I always have the normal Cinemax anyway and I could live with that--but if it's supposed to work and doesn't, then it would be worth following up on. He did suggest that maybe it is the CC itself (who knows?) so they are bringing a new card tomorrow at 1300 to try out---I just told him to be sure that it is a Multistream card and not 2 Singlestream ones.
> 
> So I wish you good luck and an easy install......I must say that the tech guys in the field have been more than helpful with their followup work. I have no complaints in that department. They really are going the extra mile for me.
> 
> Bill


Bill - I've been using my TiVo Series 3 with cablecards for over a year now without issue. I did in the past subscribe to STARZ until they made the STARZ HD channel an SDV channel, so I canceled STARZ. Now that the TA has come, I asked Oceanic to add STARZ and the HD Entertainment Pak effective tomorrow. I'll let you know if I have any issues with STARZ tomorrow...

Thanks,
Tony


----------



## s1_junkie

HawaiiTivoLover said:


> Just got a return call with an installation date and confirmed that they plan on charging duplicate service charge PER CableCard (2x$8) plus a $3 charge for additional CC card. So it costs at least $11 extra to have a functioning series 3 vs multistream tivoHD/XL.
> Thats not right. Any Ideas how to fight this?
> Here we go again.


Grrr.

Perhaps you could point out to the State Regulator that OTW, for the same service charges different prices according to the model of TiVo their customer has. Significantly more money for users of an older TiVo. For the same service that can't be right.

Strangely the message OTW is sending is 'get a newer TiVo'! Perhaps OTW has a new attitude


----------



## s1_junkie

Icarus said:


> That would suck if tivo tried to record a program from one of those. Which channels? Keep us posted, please. Thanks.
> 
> -David


Truck roll will be Friday, first step in a process, issues are:

'Temporally Unavailable, press SELECT...': <intermittent problem>
1226 FOXHD
1331 TLCHD
1557 SCIFIHD
-- my speculation is this is a head end SDV configuration problem (local to Kona if nobody else gets it). The message is similar to the SDV timeout message (since after some timeout SDV has no way to know if you are still watching, and if it needs capacity, it must ask). Might be a local hack to address a poorly sized sub-network. But a timeout of zero means SDV is not transparent when channel surfing which cant be right.

Black screen with strong signal:
646 SUNDANCE
1248 BIG10HD
-- my speculation is channel enabling problem, some dweeb misconfigured....

Black screen with weak signal:
1224 ESPNHD2
-- probably some local signal strength thing

Stuttering sound
1561 MGMHD
-- tech tells me this is widespread

Will let you know when I get some resolution, and the magic words that name each issue if I hear them.


----------



## Todd B.

Here's where to complain:

http://hawaii.gov/dcca/areas/catv/complaint/

It might be helpful to write a letter to Oceanic management first and see what they say and then include that correspondence in the complaint. It seems to me that the "equality" angle (with Oceanic's own DVR service) is the best way to approach the issue. It might be worthwhile to try to find out how other TWC franchises handle the charges for multiple CC's in a single device and include that information in both your Oceanic letter and the CATV complaint.


----------



## snakpak

Icarus said:


> Nothing new there. That's the way it's always been with them.
> 
> BTW, it's more than $11. You have to pay for the HD package for each outlet. They consider the 2nd CC an additional outlet. You will probably pay the duplicate service fee + HD Package for the 2nd and subsequent CCs. If you pay the duplicate service fee, you don't end up paying the $3 CC rental fee.
> 
> The only way out of it is to have a single multi-stream card, which of course doesn't work for those of us that have an S3.
> 
> The reason it doesn't seem fair is that with their own dual-channel HD DVR, you would only pay 1 duplicate service fee + 1 HD package fee for the entire device, which has similar capabilities as the S3.
> 
> I think the difference is about $16 a month, plus taxes and fees.
> 
> -David


On my bill, for the 2nd CC, I'm paying the $8 duplication fee plus $3.50 for the additional HD Pak, so $11.50 total.


----------



## s2krazy

s1_junkie said:


> Grrr.
> 
> Perhaps you could point out to the State Regulator that OTW, for the same service charges different prices according to the model of TiVo their customer has. Significantly more money for users of an older TiVo. For the same service that can't be right.
> 
> Strangely the message OTW is sending is 'get a newer TiVo'! Perhaps OTW has a new attitude


It would really suck if they decided that we can't treat multistream differently and RAISE M-Cards!


----------



## Goldwing2001

rover1 said:


> Hi Tony.....here's hoping that all goes well with your install....I think that if you're sure that your cable card is authorized for everything you're supposed to be getting (mine actually wasn't and I didn't know it right away) then the physical install is really nothing......just hook up some wires. Do you already have the CC installed? My installer just called to see if the stuttering audio on 1561 was fixed--it isn't, but playing with pause/play one or more times will clear it up at least until I change channels...and also to see if I get Cinemax HD yet--and I don't. I asked if maybe they could authorize for either Starz or TMC (which I don't subscribe to) for a half hour or so to see if the HD channel for it will authorize--if it does then it would seem there is something wrong with the Cinemax HD channel reception on the TIVO. I understand that the TA may not be able to receive -every- TWC SDV channel and it might be that Cinemax HD/Starz HD/TMC HD just won't work no matter what. If that's the case I always have the normal Cinemax anyway and I could live with that--but if it's supposed to work and doesn't, then it would be worth following up on. He did suggest that maybe it is the CC itself (who knows?) so they are bringing a new card tomorrow at 1300 to try out---I just told him to be sure that it is a Multistream card and not 2 Singlestream ones.
> 
> So I wish you good luck and an easy install......I must say that the tech guys in the field have been more than helpful with their followup work. I have no complaints in that department. They really are going the extra mile for me.
> 
> Bill


Hey Bill - Oceanic installed my tuning adapter today. The Oceanic installer was here for about an hour. A lot of that time I had him wait until I checked every SDV channel on both my cablecards.

I must say, everything went well. The only mistake that was made was when the installer called the office to startup the "HD Entertainment Pakage" the office only started it on one cablecard, but he just called them back and the issue was resolved.

I checked channel 1561 (MGM HD) and I too have audio drops. The installer told me that it probably has nothing to do with the tuning adapter, but a video-to-audio signal ratio problem, he would file a trouble ticket to the head office to make the necessary adjustments to this channel. He said it may that a few days.

Receiving all those additional HD channels is wonderful.

Thanks Again,
Tony


----------



## rover1

Goldwing2001 said:


> I checked channel 1561 (MGM HD) and I too have audio drops. The installer told me that it probably has nothing to do with the tuning adapter, but a video-to-audio signal ratio problem, he would file a trouble ticket to the head office to make the necessary adjustments to this channel. He said it may that a few days.
> 
> Receiving all those additional HD channels is wonderful.
> 
> Thanks Again,
> Tony


The installer guys came again today and replaced the CC--just in case. Still had the stutter on 1561 (MGM HD) which I am able to correct by the pause/play route--sometimes have to hit it several times--and it works until I change the channel. Cinemax HD still does not work.....we had them add Starz group as a test to see what would happen there.....the regular Starz work fine....the Starz HD does not. Does your Starz HD work ok?

The guys were very apologetic....they are filing reports on my 3 things. He said there would be more installs next week so if there is something on their end that is the problem then it should start to show up soon on other machines. He said they would fix the problem sooner or later--I can live with that for now.

Glad to hear yours went well.


----------



## Goldwing2001

rover1 said:


> The installer guys came again today and replaced the CC--just in case. Still had the stutter on 1561 (MGM HD) which I am able to correct by the pause/play route--sometimes have to hit it several times--and it works until I change the channel. Cinemax HD still does not work.....we had them add Starz group as a test to see what would happen there.....the regular Starz work fine....the Starz HD does not. Does your Starz HD work ok?
> 
> The guys were very apologetic....they are filing reports on my 3 things. He said there would be more installs next week so if there is something on their end that is the problem then it should start to show up soon on other machines. He said they would fix the problem sooner or later--I can live with that for now.
> 
> Glad to hear yours went well.


Bill - My installer told me STARZ HD (1655) is not available yet. I called Oceanic customer service (643-2100) and she verified that that channel is not yet available, but will be sometime in the near future (a month or two). I'm wonder if Cinemax HD is another channel that shows up on the available channels listing, but is not yet available?

Tony


----------



## rover1

Goldwing2001 said:


> Bill - My installer told me STARZ HD (1655) is not available yet. I called Oceanic customer service (643-2100) and she verified that that channel is not yet available, but will be sometime in the near future (a month or two). I'm wonder if Cinemax HD is another channel that shows up on the available channels listing, but is not yet available?
> 
> Tony


Hmmmmmm......my Cinemax HD and Starz HD play just fine on the Oceanic DVR and also on the SA3250HD box that's attached to Beyond TV on my PC.....seems kinda strange that they would be "available" on those 2 and not on the cable card. Good thing I'm not the Oceanic tech person.....everybody would be having problems. I guess I will just wait until it works....when it does, it does.

Have fun with all your "new" channels.

Bill


----------



## Goldwing2001

rover1 said:


> Hmmmmmm......my Cinemax HD and Starz HD play just fine on the Oceanic DVR and also on the SA3250HD box that's attached to Beyond TV on my PC.....seems kinda strange that they would be "available" on those 2 and not on the cable card. Good thing I'm not the Oceanic tech person.....everybody would be having problems. I guess I will just wait until it works....when it does, it does.
> 
> Have fun with all your "new" channels.
> 
> Bill


Bill - That is very strange that you get STARZ HD on the cable box and Oceanic tells me It's not avavilable yet. There was no discussion of cablecards when called to inquire. You are on Oahu like me right? I'm in Ewa Beach.

Keep me posted when you do get STARZ HD and Cinemax HD working on the TiVo.

Thanks Again,
Tony


----------



## rover1

Goldwing2001 said:


> Bill - That is very strange that you get STARZ HD on the cable box and Oceanic tells me It's not avavilable yet. There was no discussion of cablecards when called to inquire. You are on Oahu like me right? I'm in Ewa Beach.
> 
> Keep me posted when you do get STARZ HD and Cinemax HD working on the TiVo.
> 
> Thanks Again,
> Tony


Tony---I am in Waikiki (so I would think our Oceanic feeds are the same). Who knows what's really going on--I have a hunch (and I may not be on the right track at all)that someone just didn't program the premium package HD feed to work with the cable cards...I mentioned it to my installer and I think he is going to have someone check it out tomorrow--what the outcome is will be anyone's guess at this time. When I try to access either Starz HD or Cinemax HD all I get is the grey screen.....nothing to appear that it's even looking for the channel.....not that screen that says temporarily unavailable nor the screen that says this channel may need a cable card to receive it.....just the blank grey screen.....and I have left it on the channel for several minutes and don't get any kind of timeout either.....just the blank screen. I think that as they roll out more installs this week that any other problems that might affect us all will surface.
Bill

Both HBO and SHO HD work perfectly....but they were never designated as SDV channels. The basic channels for Cinemax/Movie Channel/Starz were not designated as SDV channels but all 3 HD channels ARE. I'm using the channel lineups from Oceanic's site....with all the little colored boxes showing which channels are in which packages......


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover

So far my TA experience is no good. installers were here 3 1/2 hours til everything worked. But after i restarted the TA later (why is there an on/off switch?) All my sdv channels are grey again. tried restarting both Tivo and TA but no luck. Guess I gotta call Oceanic.


----------



## Icarus

my TA install went ok. After the install, I'm getting all the missing non-sdv channels also, like 85, 1005, etc.

The only thing I'm not getting, that I should be is MaxHD. I guess I have to call for that one.

oh, there's about 30 tivo + cc customers on Maui.

-David


----------



## rover1

Some progress on my install. The stuttering audio on MGM--1561 is all fixed up. Now the only things missing are Starz HD (which they added just to test) and Cinemax HD (which I am supposed to get--but don't). It's almost as though they don't exist on the CC.....I only get the grey screen---never any hint that either the channel requires a CC or that it is temporarily not available. It's like it doesn't even try?? Have not gotten any feedback from the installers last week--I thought they might call with a progress report but not yet.
Bill--


----------



## Icarus

oh, I'm not the only not getting maxhd? Anybody getting it?

-David


----------



## Goldwing2001

HawaiiTivoLover said:


> So far my TA experience is no good. installers were here 3 1/2 hours til everything worked. But after i restarted the TA later (why is there an on/off switch?) All my sdv channels are grey again. tried restarting both Tivo and TA but no luck. Guess I gotta call Oceanic.


Try unpluging the usb cable from TiVo and re-plug only when the TA has a steady green light (not blinking).

Tony


----------



## Goldwing2001

rover1 said:


> Some progress on my install. The stuttering audio on MGM--1561 is all fixed up. Now the only things missing are Starz HD (which they added just to test) and Cinemax HD (which I am supposed to get--but don't). It's almost as though they don't exist on the CC.....I only get the grey screen---never any hint that either the channel requires a CC or that it is temporarily not available. It's like it doesn't even try?? Have not gotten any feedback from the installers last week--I thought they might call with a progress report but not yet.
> Bill--


Hi Bill - My MGM HD is now working fine also. STARZ HD and Cinemax HD is a mystery. As I mentioned, when I called Oceanic Customer service, she told me STARZ HD is not an active channel yet. I wonder what she sees on her computer screen that the install guys don't see or know about?

Tony


----------



## Todd B.

My install was on Wednesday. It went pretty smoothly. I was able to tune some SDV channels immediately after the TA synced up, but some of them did not come in until I rebooted the TiVo. After the TiVo reboot, everything seems to be working all right for the most part.

I didn't notice any stuttering on 1561 MGM HD, but that may be after they fixed, from what you guys say.

I went through and tested every single channel in my Lineups. You can get your Lineup here:

http://www.timewarnercable.com/CustomerService/Clu/Clu.ashx

I selected my packages (Standard Service, Variety Pak, and HD Entertainment Pak), and then went through every channel marked with maroon ("Not available on CableCARDs"). Unfortunately, for "not available on CC", they don't make a distinction between SDV, on-demand, and interactive channels.

I came up with the following channels not available:

159	America's Auction Network
326	Oiwi
777	Las Vegas Channel
1999 Channel One

Anyone else have problems with those, or know if they are on-demand or interactive?

I have seen the "Temporarily Unavailable" message a couple times. It seems to me that it happens when there is a sync issue with the headend regarding initiating an SDV stream for that channel, and so it either doesn't happen, or the TA doesn't get the frequency information or something like that.

All in all, everything went really well, and is working really well, and I am happier with Oceanic than I have been in a very long time.

Edit: BTW, Starz HD is listed on that channel lineup page.


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover

Goldwing2001 said:


> Try unpluging the usb cable from TiVo and re-plug only when the TA has a steady green light (not blinking).
> 
> Tony


Thanks Goldwing, that solved my problem. 
Now I'm worried about what happens after a power outage or if my Tivo decides to freeze up as it does once in a while...will I have to go through this blinking/USB procedure after every incident? I got a few trips coming up and would hate to worry about my Tivo not being able to record sdv channels


----------



## spleen93

My TA install went well - after 1 hour of waiting for the CCs to get hit again by main office, the HD pack finally started coming through. Love watching all the HD channels I've been deprived of until now. Haven't noticed any issues with MGM HD to date but then again, haven't spent much time then.


----------



## Todd B.

Be sure you check your Cable bill carefully. This month, besides adding on the HD Entertainment Pak, they inexplicably are now charging me for an "Addressable Box". I will be calling them.

Also, this good news/bad news on the bill. Effective April 1, 2009, Cable Card monthly rate $2.54 (down from $3.10). Bad news: Digital Variety Pak increase by $1.00.

Edit: So, you're probably all going to have to call, because apparently someone in Billing thinks that a Tuning Adapter is an Addressable Box. Someone in Sales was able to clear it up, and she said, yes, it's supposed to be free for a year, and then they haven't decided yet if they'll charge for it after that year.


----------



## rover1

Well the 2 missing HD channels....1622 Cinemax HD and 1655 Starz HD are now working.....but.....now all the analog channels have reverted back to horrible reception. 86/87/88/90 are all pixelated and audio is messed up.....the lower channels 2-10 are almost unwatchable.....119 which is really just 19 remapped (per the installer) is a little better but not the almost perfect like it was last week. All those lower channels are perfectly clear on both the Oceanic DVR and the cable direct into TV and also the old Series 2 Tivo so it must have something to do with the new HD Tivo setup.....it's almost like someone in Mililani turned on 1622 and 1655 and turned off the basic channel stuff. My installer called to check on Tuesday and I mentioned the lower channels.....he said he would check some more and get back to me later in the week....hope it is Friday so we can get it set before the weekend. I'm convinced it's something that is (or isn't) being sent from the head end. Couple of steps forward--and a step backward.....but we're getting there.

Bill


----------



## bueller555

Todd B. said:


> Bad news: Digital Variety Pak increase by $1.00.


I have the Surfpak discount, so my bill isn't detailed, but you have a separate charge for the Digital Variety Pak? Looking at the DVP channels, if they take away my Surfpak discount, I'd probably ask to discontinue my DVP.


----------



## bueller555

FINALLY got my cablecard and tuning adapter installed. The guys were very cool and got it up and running fairly quickly even though they had very little experience in installing either cablecards or tuning adapters. After inserting the m-card on my Tivo HD, they took some notes from the Tivo setup screen and called it in. The update to the tuning adapter was quick and after the Tivo ran its setup thing, the m-card was working fine, but not the TA. All we did was power off the TA then on again and once the LED was solid green again, the SDV channels started coming through. I haven't checked to see if any channels were missing, but I was just thrilled to have Tivo again. I only noticed that Animal Planet HD was stuttering quite a bit. 

The installers also checked my signal strength throughout the house and replaced the exterior cables and splitters to improve the signal. I was very pleased with their service.


----------



## s2krazy

... waiting for them to call me to tell me I'm up soon.....


----------



## Todd B.

bueller555 said:


> I have the Surfpak discount, so my bill isn't detailed, but you have a separate charge for the Digital Variety Pak? Looking at the DVP channels, if they take away my Surfpak discount, I'd probably ask to discontinue my DVP.


Oh. Standard Cable is included with my building, so I only have to pay for extras on top of that. I pay $11 for the Digital Variety Pak (formerly called Digital Cable Service) and $6.95 for HD Ent Pak, and then the Cable Card. I get Internet for free through work.


----------



## Goldwing2001

rover1 said:


> Well the 2 missing HD channels....1622 Cinemax HD and 1655 Starz HD are now working.....but.....now all the analog channels have reverted back to horrible reception. 86/87/88/90 are all pixelated and audio is messed up.....the lower channels 2-10 are almost unwatchable.....119 which is really just 19 remapped (per the installer) is a little better but not the almost perfect like it was last week. All those lower channels are perfectly clear on both the Oceanic DVR and the cable direct into TV and also the old Series 2 Tivo so it must have something to do with the new HD Tivo setup.....it's almost like someone in Mililani turned on 1622 and 1655 and turned off the basic channel stuff. My installer called to check on Tuesday and I mentioned the lower channels.....he said he would check some more and get back to me later in the week....hope it is Friday so we can get it set before the weekend. I'm convinced it's something that is (or isn't) being sent from the head end. Couple of steps forward--and a step backward.....but we're getting there.
> 
> Bill


Hey Bill,
After reading your post, I checked those analog channels you mentioned and the audio/video seem to be fine on my end of the island (Ewa Beach). I also called Oceanic and asked about receiving the Starz HD channel, they told me it's now available. I probably have you to thank you for that.. 
Hope they get your analog channels working properly soon. Keep me posted.

Thanks Again,
Tony


----------



## kbaybob

I received this from Oceanic Time Warner on 11/13/2008. The people you talk to on the phone rarely get the pricing system correct in my experience, so I rely on email correspondence. this reflects about $10 reduction in cost for returning my Oceanic DVR and using a TiVo HD with multistream cable card and tuning adapter (which is free). I still await the tuning adapter which they thought would be delivered to me in January...

Aloha!

The Digital Cable Pak is a package that includes the Standard Cable Service, Digital Cable Service, and equipment rental for one TV. That package would already cover the CableCard rental fee, so there would not be a separate charge for the CableCard with that package. So with that package the charges would be as follows:

> Digital Cable Pak: $52.95 -- 1st TV with CableCard, Tuning Adapter & Digital Cable HBO & Showtime? See highlighted items below
>
> Duplicate Services: $8.00 -- 2nd TV with Digital cable box, Digital Cable, HBO & Showtime
>
> HD Entertainment Pak (2 TVs): $10.45
>
> HBO: $14.95
>
> Showtime: $7.00
>
> Earthlink High Speed: $41.95
>
> FCC User Fee: $0.06
>
> Cable Franchise Fee: $4.11
>
> General Excise Tax: $6.57
>
> -----------------------------------
>
> Total: $146.04


----------



## kbaybob

I sent the following to [email protected] today, copying my state senator and representative and the governor:

Dear DCCA,

I'm sure by now you have received many complaints and comments about Oceanic Time Warner's service, and that you are aware that the FCC has fined them and their parent company Time Warner for prematurely implementing SDV without proper notice or adjustment. This comment is perhaps somewhat different. Many, if not most of Oceanic's non premium HD and SD channels are available on QAM frequencies, which newer TVs and DVRs can tune to. The problem with Oceanic is that these frequencies (or channel assignments, if you will) change frequently. While the cable companies insist that the reason for this is that they need the flexibility to move things around, I suspect that the real reason is that they want to make it as difficult as possible for consumers to receive the channels without subscribing to the cableco's extra cost services. Oceanic Time Warner has told me on several occasions that their interpretation of the Must Carry rule is that they carry ONE instance of a local broadcaster; not ALL of its transmissions; thus they carry the SD signal in the clear, but make it as inconvenient as possible to receive the HD signal.

I believe your agency should require the franchise holders to provide ALL the signals of local broadcasters on published and stable QAM channels that remain the same so that program guides and customers can always find them. KGMB has been relatively stable at 113.1 for several months, and KITV has been pretty stable at 114.2, but KHNL seems to move back and forth between 83.1 and 83.3, while KHON also moves around between 85.7 and 85.3. The other channels move even more often. Apparently it is also possible for the cablecos to remap the channels to be the same as the OTA channels the broadcasters use without interference, but I don't have a lot of data on that. In any event, it is time for our government to require the cable companies to provide ALL the broadcasts from ALL the local stations and all of their non premium cable broadcasts on published QAM channels that remain the same over time.

Oceanic even refuses to divulge the current QAM frequencies when asked by phone or email. The excuse is because they are constantly changing. They should NOT be constantly changing. They suggest using the channel search function of our TVs or DVRs to find the channels, but that is a multiple hour process that requires first using that function to find the QAM channels, then manually tuning through (currently) over 300 channels that show up on such a search, waiting at least 10 seconds on each one to see if there really is a signal, then trying to determine which station one is watching.


----------



## Todd B.

kbaybob said:


> > Earthlink High Speed: $41.95


Ouch. You should call Oceanic and request an ISP change to RoadRunner. With your digital cable package, you should qualify for the $29.10 rate for RoadRunner service.


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover

Todd B. said:


> Ouch. You should call Oceanic and request an ISP change to RoadRunner. With your digital cable package, you should qualify for the $29.10 rate for RoadRunner service.


how long is that promotional rate good for?


----------



## Todd B.

Indefinitely, from what I understand, so long as you have Standard Cable Service. It's to help them price compete with HawaiianTel DSL.

Alternatively, if you have light Internet needs (web browsing and e-mail), you can get the "Road Runner 1.5" service for $24.95 per month. That's 1.5 Mbps down and 384 Kbps up. They don't advertise that service anywhere, but just call and ask for "Road Runner 1.5". It's non-promotional and anyone can get it at any time by asking for it.


----------



## Todd B.

I am unable to tune the following channels today. Anyone else having the same problems? I'm in Nuuanu. It ultimately gives up with the error on the screen "This channel is temporarily unavailable. Press SELECT to try tuning to this channel again. Contact your cable provider for more information." I've rebooted both my Tivo HD and TA.

1000 OCSCEN
1337 SCIHD
1453 HMHD
1561 MGMHD


----------



## HawaiiTivoLover

Todd B. said:


> I am unable to tune the following channels today. Anyone else having the same problems? I'm in Nuuanu. It ultimately gives up with the error on the screen "This channel is temporarily unavailable. Press SELECT to try tuning to this channel again. Contact your cable provider for more information." I've rebooted both my Tivo HD and TA.
> 
> 1000 OCSCEN
> 1337 SCIHD
> 1453 HMHD
> 1561 MGMHD


Originally Posted by Goldwing2001 
Try unpluging the usb cable from TiVo and re-plug only when the TA has a steady green light (not blinking).


----------



## Icarus

They added FXHDP (1554) and BRAVOHD (1560)

Both come in on the OTW HD DVR. Initially neither come on in my S3 + TA. Finally HXHDP started working, but still nothing on BRAVOHD.

Anybody else getting Bravo HD?

I guess I will try the automated re-auth.

-David


----------



## Icarus

I seem to have lost SCIFIHD also, dammit.

Most other sdv hd channels seem to be tunable, but not all of them.

Now FXHDP won't tune in either. (after the re-auth, I guess).

I even had somebody out at the house today to troubleshoot reception problems, and he saw the problem with Bravo HD, and didn't do anything about it. He didn't do anything about the reception problems on MAXHD either.

-David


----------



## Icarus

Now BravoHD comes in, but the other few don't. I hate this.

Bravo HD has the movie Vanilla Sky on in 4:3 aspect ratio. hahaha.

lol, the signal just stopped coming in at 6:30.

-David


----------



## Todd B.

Well, now I'm getting something completely different. Before it was just a black screen. Now I'm getting an error message "Channel not available" with a little Tivo icon. I assume that's what Icarus is seeing too? I'm getting it on a bunch of HD channels. 1000, 1108, 1116, 1329, 1337, 1449, 1554, 1557 to name a few.

This is all incredibly frustrating. Everything was going great for a couple weeks. Now I'm missing recordings, and missing a different contingent of channels each day.

Edit: Talked to an Oceanic rep on the phone, and he sent a reauthorize signal to my CableCard. After that, all my channels are good again, except for FXHD and BravoHD, which I presume are not broadcasting on Oahu yet.

Like Icarus, I had done the automated phone reauthorization, but that didn't fix it. When the phone rep sent the re-auth, a message popped up on my TiVo saying it had detected a Tuning Adapter. I chose to "Continue" rather than test it, and then all my channels were fine. I did not get that message when I did the auto re-auth, so I suspect the auto re-auth does not work for CableCards.


----------



## Goldwing2001

Todd B. said:


> Well, now I'm getting something completely different. Before it was just a black screen. Now I'm getting an error message "Channel not available" with a little Tivo icon. I assume that's what Icarus is seeing too? I'm getting it on a bunch of HD channels. 1000, 1108, 1116, 1329, 1337, 1449, 1554, 1557 to name a few.
> 
> This is all incredibly frustrating. Everything was going great for a couple weeks. Now I'm missing recordings, and missing a different contingent of channels each day.
> 
> Edit: Talked to an Oceanic rep on the phone, and he sent a reauthorize signal to my CableCard. After that, all my channels are good again, except for FXHD and BravoHD, which I presume are not broadcasting on Oahu yet.
> 
> Like Icarus, I had done the automated phone reauthorization, but that didn't fix it. When the phone rep sent the re-auth, a message popped up on my TiVo saying it had detected a Tuning Adapter. I chose to "Continue" rather than test it, and then all my channels were fine. I did not get that message when I did the auto re-auth, so I suspect the auto re-auth does not work for CableCards.


Well, I just got off the phone with Oceanic. I too cannot access the new channels FXHDP (1554) and BRAVOHD (1560). They had me unplug the usb, reboot the Tuning Adapter, reboot TiVo, and remove and reinstall my two cable cards. But, none of that worked. She set up to have a tech come out to the house next week Wed (3/11/09). About 30min later I received a call asking me to perform "Test Tuning Adapter Channels" on TiVo. I received the message "No Channels are Available". She then asked me to perform "Test Cable Card Channels" and that worked just fine except for the two new channels. She told me she would continue to look into it on her end and call me back if she discovers something, otherwise the tech will come by next Wed as scheduled. I'm able to receive every channel except 1554 & 1560, I really don't think the problem is my tuning adapter or cable cards, I think it's on there end.
I'll keep you posted. If anyone else is having this problem with these two channels, please call Oceanic. If enough people call having this problem they will realize the problem is on there end and not the customers house.

Aloha,
Tony

UPDATE 3/4/09 - I received a callback from Oceanic this morning stating that they have discovered the problem is on their end and not on mine. She stated they needed a software upgrade on their system, but didn't know exactly know how long this would take or when it will be done.
At least now I won't have to take off work for a tech to come by and end up doing nothing.

Aloha,
Tony


----------



## jesseramos

Tech's been here about 6 hours now. We're stuck on "Please wait...Acquiring Channel Information." Tried 2 differnt TAs, 2 different multi-stream cards, 2 single-stream cards. Tried letting the TA come to a steady light before plugging in the USB cable. Have re-booted TivoHD and TA several times.

I've had the m-card in my TivoHD for several months now, working fine (besides no SDV.) When I remove the TA, TivoHD is okay again (no SDV.) Oceanic DVR still working perfectly.

Any ideas?


----------



## Todd B.

That sucks dude. It should only take about 1 minute for it to finish acquiring channel information. Have you look at the DVR and TA diagnostics on the Tivo?


----------



## jesseramos

The techs looked at the CC and TA diagnostics. I'm not sure what to look for myself. I had to leave at 5:00 this evening, so they said someone will come back out next week.


----------



## Goldwing2001

jesseramos said:


> The techs looked at the CC and TA diagnostics. I'm not sure what to look for myself. I had to leave at 5:00 this evening, so they said someone will come back out next week.


Jesse - What exactly is not working? Is it just not receiving the SDV (HD) channels? If so, my first question is did you request to subsrcibe/receive the "HD Entertainment Package" and if so did Oceanic activate it yet?

Keep us posted, I'd love to know end of this story...

Aloha,
Tony


----------



## jesseramos

Right now, I have the cable feed going through the TA and then to the TivoHD. I have the USB cable unplugged, but the TA is on.

For these HD channels, I get "Channel Not Available"
1000 Scenic Hawaii
1116 CNBC
1210 VS
1216 Golf
1225 ESPN News
1226 FoxHDSO
1248 Big10
1323 HGTV
1325 Travel
1329 Animal Planet
1331 TLC
1449 Lifetime
1453 Hallmark
1554 FX
1557 Sci Fi
1560 Bravo
1561 MGM
1593 PLD
1605 Universal



These HD channels come in fine, most of which are SDV, as far as my understanding.
1003 Fox
1005 KFVE
1006 ABC
1007 CBS
1008 NBC
1010 PBS
1016 OC16
1113 CNN
1222 ESPN
1224 ESPN2
1321 Food
1327 History
1332 Discovery Theatre
1333 Discovery
1347 NG
1355 HDNet
1444 Disney
1547 A&E
1551 TBS
1553 TNT
1555 USA
1603 HDNet Movies


Also, I get "Channel Not Available" on the Sports Pak channels which are SDV.



When I plug the USB cable in, I get stuck on the "Acquiring Channel Information" page with the beach ball. It never gets past this. Eventually it errors out and in a few minutes starts up again.


When I made the appointment for the TA truck roll, they asked what channels I wanted. I told them I just wanted the HD pak. When the tech was here he and someone in dispatch thought I may need "dupe services" so they added that, but that didn't help.


----------



## s2krazy

Having the same problem right now. They are downstairs staring at the spinning ball. We're about to reboot the Tivo. As of now, none of our SDV channels are being acquired. I have enabled them in the Tivo>settings>channels menu.


----------



## Icarus

jesseramos said:


> These HD channels come in fine, most of which are SDV, as far as my understanding.
> 1003 Fox
> 1005 KFVE
> 1006 ABC
> 1007 CBS
> 1008 NBC
> 1010 PBS
> 1016 OC16
> 1113 CNN
> 1222 ESPN
> 1224 ESPN2
> 1321 Food
> 1327 History
> 1332 Discovery Theatre
> 1333 Discovery
> 1347 NG
> 1355 HDNet
> 1444 Disney
> 1547 A&E
> 1551 TBS
> 1553 TNT
> 1555 USA
> 1603 HDNet Movies


Most of those are not SDV. I think the only one in that list that is SDV is USA HD.

The list is on OTW's web site, under channel lineups. You can see which require the TA with Cablecards, etc. They have little checkboxes for filtering the list that makes it easier to use.

Check the list on the web site rather than relying on my memory. The list can change.

-David


----------



## s2krazy

I have 90% of the HD channels working, but Scifi is absent. The guys have left and the Tivo is showing the spinning ball again. Why Scifi and not GolfHD?


----------



## jesseramos

Icarus said:


> Most of those are not SDV. I think maybe Food, A&E and USA are SDV in that list, maybe Disney also. All the rest are not SDV.
> 
> The list is on OTW's web site, under channel lineups. You can see which require the TA with Cablecards, etc. They have little checkboxes for filtering the list that makes it easier to use.
> 
> Check the list on the web site rather than relying on my memory. The list can change.
> 
> -David


Yeah, I had that list up as I went throught the channels, and it shows all of the HD pak as being SDV. The only ones not SDV according to the list are 1003-1010.


----------



## jesseramos

s2krazy said:


> I have 90% of the HD channels working, but Scifi is absent. The guys have left and the Tivo is showing the spinning ball again. Why Scifi and not GolfHD?


Collin:

How do you get to Live TV when the ball is spinning? As long as i see the ball, I can't view Live TV.

Thanks,
Jesse


----------



## s2krazy

Spinning ball stopped, got an 'error acquiring channels' message. Should I unplug the TA yet again?


----------



## s2krazy

jesseramos said:


> Collin:
> 
> How do you get to Live TV when the ball is spinning? As long as i see the ball, I can't view Live TV.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jesse


I don't know, but now I'm in your loop. We had (somehow) been able to check channels. Only when we found Scifi missing did go back to 'square one' and the spinning ball.


----------



## jesseramos

s2krazy said:


> Spinning ball stopped, got an 'error acquiring channels' message. Should I unplug the TA yet again?


Seems like the same thing I'm getting. After a few minutes, the Tivo tries to go back to Live TV and ends up with the spinning ball again. It just keeps going through that cycle of ball, error, ball, error...


----------



## s2krazy

jesseramos said:


> Seems like the same thing I'm getting. After a few minutes, the Tivo tries to go back to Live TV and ends up with the spinning ball again. It just keeps going through that cycle of ball, error, ball, error...


OK I unplugged the TA power cord. While the light was flashing, I was able to tune some HD channels. Once the TA connected, I was switched to the message screen "Tuning Adapter Connected" > Continue. When you click "continue" it's back to the spinning ball...


----------



## Icarus

jesseramos said:


> Yeah, I had that list up as I went throught the channels, and it shows all of the HD pak as being SDV. The only ones not SDV according to the list are 1003-1010.


That's not what it shows for me. I'm in zip code 96768, using the digital lineup for kahului/hana.

You have to look carefully. Only the dark brown color means SDV. (the checkbox is "not available with cablecards" for SDV channels.)

In my earlier post, I got Food HD, A&E HD and Disney HD wrong. They are not SDV. USA HD is SDV. I'll go back and correct that post.

What's your zip code?

-David


----------



## jesseramos

Icarus said:


> That's not what it shows for me. I'm in zip code 96768, using the digital lineup for kahului/hana.
> 
> You have to look carefully. Only the dark brown color means SDV. (the checkbox is "not available with cablecards" for SDV channels.)
> 
> In my earlier post, I got Food HD, A&E HD and Disney HD wrong. They are not SDV. USA HD is SDV.
> 
> What's your zip code?
> 
> -David


96789


----------



## Icarus

jesseramos said:


> 96789


ok, I see what you mean. 

I doesn't seem like they implemented that change yet, since you can get most of the ones that aren't listed as SDV in my lineup.

I'm still having some problems with some SDV channels. I hope they straighten this out before they move the rest of them to SDV like it shows for your lineup.

-David


----------



## s2krazy

Channels that I'm not receiving:

1108 Fox Business Network HD
1116 CNBC HD
1210 HD Versus
1226 Fox Sports Net West High Definition
1323 Home & Garden Television High Definition
1325 Travel Channel High Definition
1329 Animal Planet High Definition
1331 TLC High Definition
1337 The Science Channel High Definition
1449 LMN HD
1455 USA HD
1554 FX HD
1557 Sci Fi HD
1605 Universal High Definition

Any ideas? I'm in 96797 so they should be a part of my HD Entertainment Pak. Other HD channels are working fine.


----------



## s2krazy

Another trip this morning and no progress. He's coming back tomorrow to try again.


----------



## jesseramos

s2krazy said:


> Another trip this morning and no progress. He's coming back tomorrow to try again.


Any luck, Colin?


----------



## s2krazy

Nope. We spent another 3 hours this morning. We're going to try another TA but that takes 3 days for authorization so we'll try again next week. Where do you stand on this?


----------



## s2krazy

jesseramos said:


> Any luck, Colin?


BTW, are you the Jesse they worked for Island Sound?


----------



## bueller555

I'm on cablecard in Pearl City and all channels are coming through for me. I wasn't getting FXHD and BRAVOHD up until a few days ago, but tonight I notice that I'm now receiving both channels. It appears that I'm up to date on all non-premium HD channels.



s2krazy said:


> Channels that I'm not receiving:
> 
> 1108 Fox Business Network HD
> 1116 CNBC HD
> 1210 HD Versus
> 1226 Fox Sports Net West High Definition
> 1323 Home & Garden Television High Definition
> 1325 Travel Channel High Definition
> 1329 Animal Planet High Definition
> 1331 TLC High Definition
> 1337 The Science Channel High Definition
> 1449 LMN HD
> 1455 USA HD
> 1554 FX HD
> 1557 Sci Fi HD
> 1605 Universal High Definition
> 
> Any ideas? I'm in 96797 so they should be a part of my HD Entertainment Pak. Other HD channels are working fine.


----------



## jesseramos

s2krazy said:


> BTW, are you the Jesse they worked for Island Sound?


No, I'm not.

Anyway, Oceanic was supposed to call me this week to set up another visit. Haven't heard from them yet, but I've been busy with work and wouldn't have been home anyway.


----------



## Todd B.

David, all HD channels on Oahu are SDV, except for the broadcast networks 1003-1010, and have been since late 2007. It's different on Maui. I'm not sure how Jesse is tuning anything without the TA.

Jesse and Colin, have you had them hit your Cable Card with a reauthorization/reactivation signal yet? You can do that over the phone by calling 643-2100. Don't use the automated reauthorization. Have a representative do it manually.


----------



## jesseramos

Todd B. said:


> David, all HD channels on Oahu are SDV, except for the broadcast networks 1003-1010, and have been since late 2007. It's different on Maui. I'm not sure how Jesse is tuning anything without the TA.
> 
> Jesse and Colin, have you had them hit your Cable Card with a reauthorization/reactivation signal yet? You can do that over the phone by calling 643-2100. Don't use the automated reauthorization. Have a representative do it manually.


Okay, I just had them send the reauth again, and everything seems to be working now. I don't know how many times they tried that on Friday. Seems to me like something was getting hung that day and only a limited amount of channels were getting recognized.

Like Todd suggested, I called and had a tech hit the card manually as opposed to doing it automated. Thanks for the tip, Todd. Saved me from having them come out again.


----------



## Goldwing2001

Goldwing2001 said:


> Well, I just got off the phone with Oceanic. I too cannot access the new channels FXHDP (1554) and BRAVOHD (1560). They had me unplug the usb, reboot the Tuning Adapter, reboot TiVo, and remove and reinstall my two cable cards. But, none of that worked. She set up to have a tech come out to the house next week Wed (3/11/09). About 30min later I received a call asking me to perform "Test Tuning Adapter Channels" on TiVo. I received the message "No Channels are Available". She then asked me to perform "Test Cable Card Channels" and that worked just fine except for the two new channels. She told me she would continue to look into it on her end and call me back if she discovers something, otherwise the tech will come by next Wed as scheduled. I'm able to receive every channel except 1554 & 1560, I really don't think the problem is my tuning adapter or cable cards, I think it's on there end.
> I'll keep you posted. If anyone else is having this problem with these two channels, please call Oceanic. If enough people call having this problem they will realize the problem is on there end and not the customers house.
> 
> Aloha,
> Tony
> 
> UPDATE 3/4/09 - I received a callback from Oceanic this morning stating that they have discovered the problem is on their end and not on mine. She stated they needed a software upgrade on their system, but didn't know exactly know how long this would take or when it will be done.
> At least now I won't have to take off work for a tech to come by and end up doing nothing.
> 
> Aloha,
> Tony


I'm alittle late in reporting this, but a few days ago Oceanic called me and said they updated their TA software and I should now be able to tune-in FXHD and BRAVOHD. Sure enough I can! I would guess everyone else on Oahu can get tune them in also.


----------



## HiKent

This is great news.

Any chance you can get your contacts to fix 800 (hawaiian music) and the radio channels? I've complained (& even had a tech come out). These channels worked with only a cablecard, but don't with the tuning adaptor. 

I've had no luck getting anyone to listen. We have no radio reception here in our valley & I'd love to be able to timeshift radio again...

Kent


----------



## Goldwing2001

HiKent said:


> This is great news.
> 
> Any chance you can get your contacts to fix 800 (hawaiian music) and the radio channels? I've complained (& even had a tech come out). These channels worked with only a cablecard, but don't with the tuning adaptor.
> 
> I've had no luck getting anyone to listen. We have no radio reception here in our valley & I'd love to be able to timeshift radio again...
> 
> Kent


Kent,

Call Oceanic 643-2100 select tech problem and ask to speak to Brook. Let her know you can tune-in every channel except channel 800 on your tuning adapter. She's the one who reported my problem with FXHD and BRAVOHD to the higher level techs and a week later things got resolved.


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## Todd B.

I still can't tune FX HD. Anyone else?


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## jesseramos

Todd B. said:


> I still can't tune FX HD. Anyone else?


No problems here.


----------



## docnaks

2 (eventually a third came out) Techs came out last week Thursday to install the TA, woohoo! However, after about 2hrs of the "acquiring channel information" screen, they told me there was a "software" glitch. Even funnier, I had to point out a mistake in their setup! They would let the "foreman" know who would call me in a few days. Well 1 week later, no call. So I decided to hook the thing up myself. All channels came through except the HD SDV channels. So I called the tech line, and they again said the foreman would call. 2 hrs later, all the HD SDV channels were working! Except for ESPN 1222 and 1224, extremely pixelated. Just goes to show that we are all tech savvy enough to do this on our own...stupid truck roll


----------



## Todd B.

Lost about half of my HD channels again tonight. Called Oceanic, and used the automated reactivation. This time it worked, and all my channels were restored. Got the "TA attached" message on the TiVo when the reactivation signal came through about 5 minutes after my call.

Kind of annoyed that I keep having to do this every few weeks, but it's a little less painful if the automated reactivation works reliably. I put my TA on a UPS now though. I'm hoping the regulated power will smooth things out and keep it from having to repeatedly do this reactivation.

Oh, and I'm getting FX HD now too.


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## bueller555

I had the same "TA attached" message this morning too, but I didn't check my SDV channels. I've had this happen before, but I've never had to get my box reauthorized.


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## s2krazy

Ok just to update. it took a number of trips but we finally got it working. My installer Robert was great. While we were waiting, he shortened some longish cables, took out extra splitters (from when the house was built), and added a cable only junction box. Everything is working fine, even got to watch the finale of Battlestar Galactica in HD!


----------



## ddubois

I have a Tivo Series3, live in Ewa Beach, and I haven't been following the SDV saga at all. I seem to recall receiving a letter about being on a list for tuning adapter many months ago, and that was the last I heard of it. I take it from the last few pages these have been shipping for awhile.

Can someone clarify for me which Oceanic packages provide which channels? I don't watch "real TV" hardly at all anymore, mostly just using my HTPC, but I upgraded from a 42" LCD to a 60" plasma yesterday, and obviously that will give ya a rekindled interest in getting HDTV content. 

In fact, I was not even aware, until the HDTV salesman told me, that currently the Oahu analog cable signal contains the four big networks in an unencrypted "QAM format". I'm not up to speed on digital TV. I have never even attempted to tune to a TV channel with a dot in it - I wouldn't even know how. Does the fact that I have (dual) cable cards obviate the need for doing this QAM-tuning business?

I'm pretty sure we've been watching Lost in digital standard definition, not high definition. I'd love to be able to change that right away.


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## bueller555

If you're running cable cards, the only HD content that you'll receive without a tuning adapter is 1003 (KHON), 1005 (KFVE), 1006 (KITV), 1007 (KGMB), 1008 (KHNL), and 1010 (KHET). Not all of their content will be in HD. There are many other channels that are HD-only, but those require a separate subscription payment.

And yes, with cable cards you won't have to deal with QAM tuning. The S3 can't handle that dot stuff anyway.

[Edit: I just realized that I assumed that you were on digital service. I retract the above as the Tivo recording HD content won't work with analog service with QAM. Sorry.]


----------



## Icarus

Whatever TA/head end reprogramming they did seems to have worked.

I'm still having the occasional glitch here and there, but overall, it all seems to be working ok. One thing I've noticed is that it can take some time after a reset to be able to tune into a few of the "problematic" channels.

But overall, everything seems to be working ok now.

-David


----------



## ddubois

I am on digital service, and to my embarrassment, I did not do enough research before posting. The last time that I looked at the list of HD channels was many months ago, and at that time, I believe at most one of the major local networks was represented in the 1000+ range (all I remember for sure is that TNTHD was there). So my season passes have been on the "digital" channels representations circa ~80 all this time. /smack forehead


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## Todd B.

With Cable Card(s) installed, you can tune the major broadcast networks in HD with just Standard Cable service on channels 1003-1010. If you want to get any more HD channels, they're all SDV, and you'll need to get a Tuning Adapter and the HD Entertainment Pak.


----------



## Todd B.

I lost ALL digital channels (digital, HD, and SDV) on both tuners sometime today. Analog channels were fine. After disconnecting the TA's USB cable, I was able to tune all non-SDV channels again. After rebooting the TA, my full service was restored.

I love all my HD channels, but it's getting annoying that I have some tuning issue every few weeks that causes me to miss recordings.


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## Icarus

What the heck is going on with KHNL-HD tonight? There's nothing there.

-David


----------



## s2krazy

I noticed I had lost a channel or two, (Scifi and now Verses). I meant to look into this but am now really pissed cause I missed recording my Indycar race. I guess step one is a reboot of the TA? Anything else to try on a weekend?


----------



## spleen93

Todd B. said:


> I lost ALL digital channels (digital, HD, and SDV) on both tuners sometime today. Analog channels were fine. After disconnecting the TA's USB cable, I was able to tune all non-SDV channels again. After rebooting the TA, my full service was restored.
> 
> I love all my HD channels, but it's getting annoying that I have some tuning issue every few weeks that causes me to miss recordings.


Agreed. It's getting a little old. Not sure why they can't make the TA more reliable.


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## Sy-

Sorry about revisiting an old thread but since my questions are more specific to the Oceanic operations I though this would be the best place to ask. I'm having my TA installed next week and am wondering wether or not to use my current S3 or spring for a new HD XL. Does Oceanic have m-cards? for those of you with an S3 do they still charge you twice for the HD-Pak (once for each cable card)? I remember that that pissed me off last time I was using cable cards! If there anything I should look out for when they are doing the CC and TA install? Thanks all!


----------



## Icarus

It's not really an old thread, but you really do need to read it rather than have somebody else do it for you. 

I have an S3, and OTW charges a duplicate service fee for each CC. (Unless the S3 is your only "outlet", in that case you will pay one extra duplicate service fee.) And yes, as far as I know, they will charge you for the HD pack for each outlet.

If you want to go with the HD or HD XL, you can avoid that by getting/using one m-card instead of the 2 cards you need with the S3. Other operators have gotten into trouble with the FCC for this practice, but as far as I know OTW still does it.

The good news for you is that we (OTW and us) have already debugged most of the TA problems/issues, so for the most part, your install and operation should be relatively problem free.

-David


----------



## Sy-

Thanks, So the HD XL is on order. Should be here Thursday! Thx for working out the bugs for me. Still a little miffed that I had to wait so long. I was supposed to be at the top of that TA list. Didn't know it was available till I got a call Sunday night! Anyone know what a S3 with lifetime is worth? I even have the original hard drive (virgin) that came with it. Swapped it out before I even powered it on!


----------



## Sy-

Yay... I'm all set up. The OTW rep just left. He showed up at 11:00 and was out the door at 11:45. He installed 1 M-Card and the tuning adapter. Funny thing was that he was only assigned 2 cable card installs today. Apparently the think that these truck rolls take 4hrs like they did a couple years ago. I asked him what he was going to do with the rest of his day and he said he was going to the beach. I want his job! Anyways the install went good, the csr rep forgot to turn on the hd-pak so it took a few minutes to figure out why it wasn't working. So happy to get rid the the SA8300hdc!!!


----------



## spleen93

Cool!


----------



## GiantsFan24

Sy- said:


> Yay... I'm all set up. The OTW rep just left. He showed up at 11:00 and was out the door at 11:45. He installed 1 M-Card and the tuning adapter. Funny thing was that he was only assigned 2 cable card installs today. Apparently the think that these truck rolls take 4hrs like they did a couple years ago. I asked him what he was going to do with the rest of his day and he said he was going to the beach. I want his job! Anyways the install went good, the csr rep forgot to turn on the hd-pak so it took a few minutes to figure out why it wasn't working. So happy to get rid the the SA8300hdc!!!


Glad to hear your install went so well. I was the house he went to before yours (he said he was headed to Ewa Beach for another Tivo install). My visit took a little longer, but not much. Would have been shorter, if he had listened to me. I needed two cards (Series 3 Tivo), and I told him that the instructions said make sure you finish setting up the first card before you insert the second, or it might damage the card. He was nice, but insisted that they were going to want the numbers from both cards when he called in. I shrugged and said "okay". Sure enough, the second card wouldn't work. He had to swap it for another card, and make another call with the new card information. This time it worked. Coulda been coincidence, and the 2nd card just happened to be bad, but I doubt it.

Anyway, aside from that little issue, everything went great. My Tivo's been working perfectly since Friday (knock on wood). I too am thrilled to be done with the SA8300HDC. The things I missed the most were jump back feature when you come out of fast forward, and the buffering 1/2 hour on both tuners, without recording. I enjoyed flipping back and forth between baseball and softball yesterday, without missing a pitch in either game.

Funny thing about the 4-hour window: The installer said that others were originally assigned to our installs, but they swapped with him because they were afraid of Tivo's. And now you say that his day was done by 11:45. Sweet.


----------



## Sy-

Yea, I had a good conversation with him about the S3's and cable cards. I told him that you were right about doing the cards 1 at a time. Maybe next time he'll do it correctly. I was going to have them do the install on my S3 but I went out and bought a HD XL at the last minute. I was worried that they would continue to double charge for the second card, dup services fee and hd-pak fee for each card like they did back in '07. When you get your next bill can you check it and see if they are still doing this?


----------



## snakpak

Sy- said:


> I was worried that they would continue to double charge for the second card, dup services fee and hd-pak fee for each card like they did back in '07. When you get your next bill can you check it and see if they are still doing this?


On my S3, I pay $2.54 for the 2nd cable card, $8 Duplicate Services fee, and $3.50 for the 2nd HD Pak. Total $14.04 per month that you're saving by using a single M card.


----------



## redhotlava

Hope I'm not jumping into the wrong thread here... 
if so, direct me elsewhere, ok? I bought a new HD XL
about a month ago. Ever since I've been waiting for 
OTW to come up with the tuning adaptor I've heard 
you guys mention here. So far, nothing. I bug them 
every week, but it's arrival does not seem imminent.
Apparently, it's not just me... they seem to be out of
stock here on this island (Hawaii, the Big Island) and 
possibly even on Oahu (altho that seems unreasonable).
Is there any way for me to obtain the TA elsewhere so 
I can get this box working, or is that out of the question?
And what is OTW charging for the cards and adaptors 
anyway? Installation? Monthly usage? Needless to say, 
I'm frustrated wtih OTW. Suggestions?

~ Mick Kalber
Hilo, Hawaii


----------



## GiantsFan24

Sy- said:


> I was worried that they would continue to double charge for the second card, dup services fee and hd-pak fee for each card like they did back in '07. When you get your next bill can you check it and see if they are still doing this?


I'll let you know. But I'm sure the double billing will be there, just like snakpak is seeing.


----------



## GiantsFan24

redhotlava said:


> Hope I'm not jumping into the wrong thread here...
> if so, direct me elsewhere, ok? I bought a new HD XL
> about a month ago. Ever since I've been waiting for
> OTW to come up with the tuning adaptor I've heard
> you guys mention here. So far, nothing. I bug them
> every week, but it's arrival does not seem imminent.
> Apparently, it's not just me... they seem to be out of
> stock here on this island (Hawaii, the Big Island) and
> possibly even on Oahu (altho that seems unreasonable).
> Is there any way for me to obtain the TA elsewhere so
> I can get this box working, or is that out of the question?
> And what is OTW charging for the cards and adaptors
> anyway? Installation? Monthly usage? Needless to say,
> I'm frustrated wtih OTW. Suggestions?
> 
> ~ Mick Kalber
> Hilo, Hawaii


Right thread...

I was told a couple months ago that the TA's were coming to Hawaii in small batches. They were being distributed first to the current CableCard customers, then to the people on the waiting list (I think I signed up for the waiting list last November or so). Since I just got my TA last week, that gives you an idea of where they are in terms of making it through the list. [Disclaimer: I was told this by OTW CSR's, so I won't vouch for accuracy.] I have no information about other islands. I did get a CSR to tell me where I was on the list (maybe six weeks ago) -- she said she saw my name on the first page. So maybe you could call and ask where you are on the list.

As for cost, the TA and the install were free. Not sure what the cablecard rental is, but I think it's shown on Oceanic's web site (my memory says it's only $2-3 per card). Exactly how much it will cost depends on your package (HD fees, duplication fees, etc.).

I don't think you can get a TA yourself. Your frustration is well understood...


----------



## Sy-

snakpak said:


> On my S3, I pay $2.54 for the 2nd cable card, $8 Duplicate Services fee, and $3.50 for the 2nd HD Pak. Total $14.04 per month that you're saving by using a single M card.


There is something really wrong about how they continue to bill for their services. I can see where they are coming from, but there should be a way for them to know that these cards are going into 1 box connected to 1 tv. I forget now but does each cc slot have it's own host id number or are they both the same?


----------



## redhotlava

GiantsFan24 said:


> Right thread...
> 
> I was told a couple months ago that the TA's were coming to Hawaii in small batches. They were being distributed first to the current CableCard customers, then to the people on the waiting list (I think I signed up for the waiting list last November or so). Since I just got my TA last week, that gives you an idea of where they are in terms of making it through the list. [Disclaimer: I was told this by OTW CSR's, so I won't vouch for accuracy.] I have no information about other islands. I did get a CSR to tell me where I was on the list (maybe six weeks ago) -- she said she saw my name on the first page. So maybe you could call and ask where you are on the list.
> 
> As for cost, the TA and the install were free. Not sure what the cablecard rental is, but I think it's shown on Oceanic's web site (my memory says it's only $2-3 per card). Exactly how much it will cost depends on your package (HD fees, duplication fees, etc.).
> 
> I don't think you can get a TA yourself. Your frustration is well understood...


thanks for the info... so, it sounds like six months is how long it takes to get a TA. That's ridiculous. Where are you? They did tell me yesterday that I 
was sixth out of nine on the list here in the Hilo area. Don't know how many 
there were when I signed up about three weeks ago. Guess they don't have too much of a stake in helping out folks with alternative DVR's, eh? Oh, well... waiting is.

~ mick


----------



## GiantsFan24

redhotlava said:


> thanks for the info... so, it sounds like six months is how long it takes to get a TA. That's ridiculous. Where are you? They did tell me yesterday that I
> was sixth out of nine on the list here in the Hilo area. Don't know how many
> there were when I signed up about three weeks ago. Guess they don't have too much of a stake in helping out folks with alternative DVR's, eh? Oh, well... waiting is.
> 
> ~ mick


I wouldn't assume six months. I signed up long before they started distributing the TA's and I'm in Makakilo (West Oahu), so our experience on Oahu is probably going to be different than other islands. If you're sixth on the list, it doesn't seem like it should be that long.


----------



## redhotlava

GiantsFan24 said:


> I wouldn't assume six months. I signed up long before they started distributing the TA's and I'm in Makakilo (West Oahu), so our experience on Oahu is probably going to be different than other islands. If you're sixth on the list, it doesn't seem like it should be that long.


well, I hope you're right... but judging from their level of interest in the whole thing, I'm not holding my breath. they're nice about it and all, but I wonder if they really know what they're doing... and reading about the horror stories on the list, I'm skeptical about them getting it up and running when the TA finally does arrive. some people don't seem to have problems tho, so maybe I'll fall into that group. let's hope so anyway. have you had problems since they set you up?


----------



## GiantsFan24

redhotlava said:


> have you had problems since they set you up?


None, whatsoever [fingers trembling as he types these words]. I have noticed a couple of times that changing to a SDV channel will result in a blank screen -- if I channel up/down, it always comes in. It's a rare occurrence, and I don't know if I stayed on the channel whether it would eventually come in, but if not, that doesn't bode well for future recordings. At the moment, though, i'm not making heavy use of recording (summer reality crap doesn't work for me), so I don't really know. As of now (all of one week), I haven't missed anything. All my Daily Shows and Colbert Reports have worked.


----------



## redhotlava

GiantsFan24 said:


> None, whatsoever [fingers trembling as he types these words].


Well, that's encouraging. We almost never watch anything that's not HD, so I'm not really too concerned with SD anyway, but you never know what we might do in the future. Pretty hard to watch SD once you've seen the light.
I just want to get back to Tivo... I've been using the stupid TWC box for way too long. Had an SD Tivo for about four years before it finally went **** up. Not sure why I didn't put another hard drive in it... but when HD came out we just used the cable company box while Tivo was working out the bugs. Maybe it was a good thing to wait, I don't know... but I can't stand having to manage the box all the time, only having 6 days of programming available to me, and getting frustrated trying to use the idiotic TWC search function (now THERE'S an oxymoron if I've ever heard one!). It will be good 
to record programs using a key word and find them easily with a couple week's worht of programming available. I can't wait. But I guess I'll have to.
Thanks for the info, Giants Fan. ~ Mick


----------



## GiantsFan24

redhotlava said:


> Well, that's encouraging. We almost never watch anything that's not HD, so I'm not really too concerned with SD anyway, but you never know what we might do in the future. Pretty hard to watch SD once you've seen the light.


Agree with you 100% on HD vs SD and on the TWC crap DVR stuff - especially the [cough, cough] search. Just to be clear, I was talking about SDV - Switched Digital Video channels, not SD - Standard Definition. SDV includes almost all of the HD channels on Oceanic (except the local channels).


----------



## redhotlava

Gotcha. Wondered about that.
I'll let you know when TWC actually 
comes up with the TA and makes the 
install. Hope it's before football season 
starts. ~ m


----------



## Icarus

Nobody else noticed that HDNET and HDNET Movies are gone now?

Replacements are the Smithsonian channel and some sort of crime channel.

Please call or write in with your displeasure with this decision if it bothers you at all.

When you call, the message you get when you hit the number for cable tv is that they were replaced due to something like the contract ended.

I hate these guys sometimes. What a dumb decision to replace 2 great channels with crap. Well, maybe I will like the Smithsonian Channel, but the other one looks like it's just all repackaged TV show reruns. That can't possibly make up for the loss of HDNET Movies or even HDNET.

I don't know if they are in negotiations to renew them or not. I hope they are, but somehow I doubt it because they would usually tell us that.

-David


----------



## Sy-

Icarus said:


> Nobody else noticed that HDNET and HDNET Movies are gone now?


It took you over a week to notice so you probably aren't going to miss it that much!  BTW this was discussed in its own thread (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=426736) since it is not specific to just Hawaii rather all TWC markets!


----------



## Icarus

Sy- said:


> It took you over a week to notice so you probably aren't going to miss it that much!  BTW this was discussed in its own thread (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=426736) since it is not specific to just Hawaii rather all TWC markets!


I was out of the country for 2 weeks, and yeah, I noticed it almost immediately. 

Thanks for the link.


----------



## rickyli99

Has anyone else have had problems with the tuning adapter today? When I woke up my TA was just blinking and now I can't tune in some HD channels. I power cycled the darn thing twice, and my TivoHD once just to be sure, still no go.

Mahalos in advance.
Ricky


----------



## Sy-

Sorry, All good over here!


----------



## jesseramos

rickyli99 said:


> Has anyone else have had problems with the tuning adapter today? When I woke up my TA was just blinking and now I can't tune in some HD channels. I power cycled the darn thing twice, and my TivoHD once just to be sure, still no go.
> 
> Mahalos in advance.
> Ricky


I'm still having problems tonight. Did you get yours working?


----------



## Icarus

When I've had some problems with the TA, the only way to clear them up was to completely power down the tivo, which basically means unplugging it, then you have to remove the power cable from the TA (turning it off via the TA power button isn't enough), wait a minute, reconnect the power cable to the TA, wait a little bit for the TA to re-acquire the signal and programming, then power up the tivo.

-David


----------



## jesseramos

Icarus said:


> When I've had some problems with the TA, the only way to clear them up was to completely power down the tivo, which basically means unplugging it, then you have to remove the power cable from the TA (turning it off via the TA power button isn't enough), wait a minute, reconnect the power cable to the TA, wait a little bit for the TA to re-acquire the signal and programming, then power up the tivo.
> 
> -David


Thanks, David. I tried that a couple of times to no avail. I was still missing a bunch of HD channels.

I went back and saw Todd B's post in this thread about the same issue. He mentioned calling in and doing an automated re-activation so I did that and it seemed to do the trick.


----------



## Rwood

Icarus said:


> (turning it off via the TA power button isn't enough),


The button on the front of the TA isn't really a power button. I found out the hard way that it is a disable switch. If you look at the OPStatus in the Tuner Adapter Diagnostic page, it goes between Disabled and Ready based on the "Power Switch".


----------



## heng101

I had gotten on the list several months ago, finally they came last week and installed tuning adapters and cable cards for 2 Tivo HD's. They tested the signal and installed an amplifier, replaced several splitters. Right away the picture even on non-HD channels is much better. Overall, they did a really good job, however one Tivo showed the card as a S-card, I pointed this out but they said no, it would not communicate with the tuning adapter if it was not an M-card so my Tivo must be displaying it wrong. I told them a half a dozen times but they would not listen. After they left, I tried resetting the tivo, etc. but no change, finally pulled both cards (after powering off) and of course one is labeled Multi-stream and the other is not. So they get to come back next week and install the correct M-card. Other than that, all is well, everything seems to work just as it should.


----------



## redhotlava

yeah... I can't wait to see what the tech does to get mine up and running.
but when that will be is anyone's guess. I'll be going down to the TWC office yet again today to see when (or if) the tuning adapters will be here. last time I checked I was sixth in line out of nine. wish me luck. ~ mick, hilo, hawaii


----------



## heng101

Installer came today and swapped the S-card for an M-card, re-authorized and so far all is good. They seem to have some installers who are knowledgeable about Tivo, others who appear to be more in training. Considering how small the Tivo user group is compared to what the size of the DVR group is, they did well. Very happy to have only the Tivo for standard and high-def. TV now.


----------



## redhotlava

Called TWC again today to see the status of the tuning adapter. Was told they have none... and that the ones they are waiting for are still in development. This was TWC Oahu now, not TWC Hilo. So I guess you must have gotten one of the last. I made my first request on 5/8, so I'm now about five and a half weeks out. Have to wonder how long we're gonna have to wait now... doesn't exactly seem imminent. I'm bummed.


----------



## heng101

Ran into a glitch and found a solution that I thought I'd share in case others run into this:
After TWC replaced the S card with the M card, the Tivo HD was still working off only 1 tuner, so I could not watch one channel while another was being recorded. It occurred to me that the Tivo probably needed to go through Guided Settup again to recognize the M card for both tuners, so I proceeded with that but it got stuck at the 'Preparing' for 'Getting Program Info'-I waited several hours but no progress. After some research, I restarted the Tivo (unplug and plug back in) which started guided settup again, and when it came to input the Zip code put in 00000, which loaded a skeleton list of channels and the Tivo finished the Guided Settup. After this I repeated Guided Settup and put in the Zip for our area, it then finished Guided Settup correctly with all channels for our area and both tuners now work.


----------



## redhotlava

That's great information... thanks. I have a hunch I might need it someday.
At least I hope I do... assuming I see the S/M cards and TA eventually. Pray for me, ok? Mahalo. ~ Mick


----------



## bueller555

Anyone have a guess on this one? I've lost a few SDV HD channels HGTV, Lifetime, and about 8 others. I've tried power cycling the tuning adapter and the Tivo HD with no change. I have a single M-card installed. What do you think that could cause some, but not all SDV channels to fail? Oceanic support only had a handful of steps to try and nothing else useful. I was hoping that they would re-pair the M-card to see if that help, but this rep didn't know about doing that.


----------



## GiantsFan24

bueller555 said:


> Anyone have a guess on this one? I've lost a few SDV HD channels HGTV, Lifetime, and about 8 others. I've tried power cycling the tuning adapter and the Tivo HD with no change. I have a single M-card installed. What do you think that could cause some, but not all SDV channels to fail? Oceanic support only had a handful of steps to try and nothing else useful. I was hoping that they would re-pair the M-card to see if that help, but this rep didn't know about doing that.


Some guesses based on what others have written. You've probably tried these ideas, but just in case...

1. When you power cycled the TA, did you pull the plug? The button on the front is not a power button.
2. Did OTW send a reauthorization to your card? I'm hoping this is one of the steps they try as a matter of course, but you never know.
3. Do you get all the SDV non-HD channels? If yes, then the problem may be that the OTW system does not think you have the HD package.
4. Did you try re-inserting the cablecard? I think this gets the Tivo to refresh its relationship with the card, but I've haven't had to do it yet so I don't really know.
5. Are your neighbors getting these channels? Maybe the problem is in the hardware that provides SDV to your area (I can't remember the proper term for this). This one's unlikely, but again, you never know...


----------



## bicker

FCC Vacates SDV Rulings Against Time Warner Cable, Cox


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## Redhaze737

Finally got the SDV installed by TW in Honolulu on June 30th. Works great so far.


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## s2krazy

I've been losing channels randomly recently. Most susceptible are Smithsonian HD and Verses HD. I do the unplug/re-plug dance but it does screw up recorded programs a lot.


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## bueller555

I lost SDV channels for the second time. Pulling the power and rebooting the tuning adapter has never helped. I called the Oceanic customer service line and noticed that there is an option for automatic reauthorization of your box. I tried that option and it took about an hour, but my lost channels were restored.


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## bueller555

You folks see this in the mail? http://www.oceanic.com/products/television/hdtv/notice I hope that this means that I can reduce my costs since most of my favorite channels will be moving to their standard tv package. I'm guessing that I'll still need a tuning adapter for the HD stuff.


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## SirMontego

Hi guys,

Can you help me figure out my monthly Oceanic cost of getting TIVO HD? 

Right now, I'm paying for Oceanic Digital Cable with the DVR and my bill comes out to $116 per month. I have one cable box which includes the DVR, HD stations, and Road Runner. I don't have HBO or any special stations. Oceanic gives a discount for having Road Runner and Digital Cable so I can't just subtract items.

From what I understand, I need to pay for Oceanic Digital Cable, 2 cable cards, and 2 HD feeds, and I'll still be paying for Road Runner. Did I miss anything? How much is this going to cost me per month? Is there some sort of Oceanic discount?

thanks for all your help!


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## Icarus

You will only need to pay for one cable card (multistream) and one HD feed. If you are adding this service, it will be 1 duplicate service fee plus the HD pack, if you get the HD pack. If this is your only digital service, it's a bit different. You pay a small rental fee for the cable card instead of the duplicate service fee. The HD Pack is optional either way, but you have to pay for it at each outlet where you want it. (the tivo is a single outlet. If you are keeping their HD DVR, that's another outlet).

It's only those of us that have the original Tivo S3 that can't use a single multistream cablecard that have the problem with paying for the extra cc/duplicate service fees. The Tivo HD and HD XL support the multistream cards, so you won't have that problem.

If you are replacing the DVR, your bill should be roughly the same as it is now, maybe a tad cheaper. Not sure how their package pricing affects that. They have other packages they can move you to that exclude the DVR. If you are adding the Tivo to your existing service and keeping the DVR, it's approximately $15 + tax for (1) duplicate service fee plus the HD Pack.

-David


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## redhotlava

David's info seems right to me, altho I'm still trying to sort out my last bill. OTWC took about three months to come up with the cablecard and then another month for the tuning adapter. To their credit they are discounting the installation fee of $33 by $20 because of the delay (they had promised the TA at the same time as the CC and it didn't happen), so my total bill including standard, digital cable service, DVR and Roadrunner is $167... but that includes HD entertainment pak, HBO and Showtime, the installation charge of $13 (after disc) and a little over two months of duplicated service. So, assuming I return their DVD (which I most certainly will... I only kept it to make sure the Tivo worked correctly and it almost does), and deduct those fees that will not recur, my bill should be around $130. Not bad, all things considered... of course we're in Hawaii, so your mileage may vary.

Anyway, everything works well except for the fast forward function which sometimes works (altho, it's about the slowest fast forward I have EVER seen... only increases time about 1/3. i.e., a 24 second real-time segment takes 16 seconds in fast forward) and sometimes doesn't. When it doesn't, the sound goes away, but the picture moves at real time. Occasionally it jumps and goes a bit faster, only to go back to real-time again. Then on other programs it works perfectly. I've tried rebooting the Tivo and changing the batteries in the remote. Any thots?

Aloha from the Big Island of Hawaii!

~ Mick Kalber


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## clark_kent

If FF is not working at the 3 speeds, you could have a bad remote (borrow a friend/neighbors remote to try), you could have a bad IR sensor in the TiVo, or you could have IR interference (try holding the remote like a foot from the TiVo); the batteries could also be bad/weak and worth another try.

A FF trick: if you push the ->| button while fast forwarding, you skip to the next tick mark on the time line.


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## Todd B.

bueller555 said:


> You folks see this in the mail? http://www.oceanic.com/products/television/hdtv/notice I hope that this means that I can reduce my costs since most of my favorite channels will be moving to their standard tv package. I'm guessing that I'll still need a tuning adapter for the HD stuff.


Yes, you'll still need the TA to access any HD stuff, regardless of what package it's part of.

But yeah, it's ridiculous. They've decimated the value of the HD Pak. For my $6.95, I used to get 45 HD channels that weren't available any other way. Now I get less than half that for the same cost. I might try calling them to see if I can get a price reduction or I might just cancel it.


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## HiKent

I don't get the radio (or Hawaiian Music Channel 800) when I've got my tuning adaptor hooked up. If I remove it (just unplug the USB), the audio-only channels come back. 

Does anyone know how to contact engineering at Oceanic? As we all know, the TiVo uses the lineup from the tuning adaptor when one is connected, and the lineup from the cablecard when there's no tuning adaptor. Somehow, the audio-only channels didn't make it into the tuning adaptor's channel lineup.

Customer service 1) suspected my wiring 2) told me my TiVo doesn't support the format 3) want's to send a repair person.

This came back today because I had to unhook tuning adaptor to get the NOAA channel (for Tsunami warning updates). We're back in a valley & have no OTA radio or TV.

Thanks.


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## Icarus

Use the contact us link on their website, and presumably they will send the issue to Nick S, who seems to be the cablecard/ta/tivo guy there.


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## Icarus

Did they move Cinemax HD (MAXHD, 1622 in Kahului, Maui Digital Lineup) off of SDV on all the islands? They said they switched it back to non-SDV around Dec 15, when a bunch of new HD channels showed up.

My tivo still thinks its an SDV channel. Techs replaced one of my cable cards, but it made no difference. (You can tell from cablecard and tuning adapter "test channels" menu items. One of them skips SDV channels, the other selects only SDV channels when using the up/down channel control on the remote.)

I've been waiting for them to resolve this since then, but nothing at all.

Anybody else? I can't wait until the new HD DTV Tivo is out there so we have a choice.

-David


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## Icarus

never mind, it's working again all of a sudden, and I've also been told that those techs were wrong, MaxHD is still SDV. They never did get back to me. Can't wait for the new DTV box, so I can dump OTW.

-David


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## ksquaredkey

Hi Folks,

I have been interested in getting a Series 3 (now an HD XL) for several years now
but put on the brakes when Oceanic started moving to SDV. From what I have been reading here, it sounds like the Tuning Adapters are now finally available in quantity and should allow me to record my favorite HD channels - HD Discovery, HD Syfy, HD BBCA, etc. However, Time Warner's program line-up tool still lists these as unavailable with CableCard, as well as the OnDemands, etc.

So my questions are 1) is TW's tool behind on the CableCard/Tuning Adapter combination? If so 2) what *will* I lose with CC/TA into an HD XL on Oceanic?
Besides the really, really crappy SA 8300HD, that is! 

Mahalo,
K^2


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## Icarus

Not sure why they say that. We might theorize that there are non-tivo cable card based devices (some TVs had cable card slots, for example) that don't/can't/will never ever work with the tuning adapter.

HD BBCA is fairly new. They recently added a batch of new HDs. That was one of them.

The other choice is to hold out a little longer and go with DirecTV whenever tivo gets around to releasing the new HD DTV box. Sat is the less expensive choice these days. I can't believe how much I pay for cable tv service. I suppose you could start with DTVs own box for now, and do a selective upgrade when the new DTV HD tivo box comes out.

-David


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## ksquaredkey

Yeah, I had the same theory - that OTW was just CYA for non-TA capable devices. Or just got lazy and didn't want to add the distinction. I've got a co-worker on the mainland who CableCard'ed into his TV. I could not convince him that he really wants a DVR. I've been DVR since the DishPlayer 7200 back on the mainland - was one of the Dish 921 "betas" - ugh. I was just about to switch to DirecTivo when Murdock took over and killed it. Unfortunately, DTV is not an option for me. I need Az 92.2 and Elevation 24.9 according to DTV's pointer app. The peak of Hulalai blocks me to about 27-28. I have friends towards Keauhou that can shoot over the shoulder but I am just plum-out-of-luck.

My plan is to wait and see what's announced on March 2nd (I suspect the new DirecTivo HD) and then decide on whether to pull the trigger on an HD XL.

Mahalo for the sanity check,
K^2


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## Icarus

1201 - 1206 olympic channels showed up the other day?

These are the channel#s I see in Kahului, Maui Digital Lineup on my S3.

1201 - Olympic Mosaic - I get "not provided by the TA", is it an on-demand thing?
1202 - HIUSAP - Appears to be the same as 1555, but with TZ offset (incorrect) guide data?
1203 - OCMSNBC - duplicate of 1107?
1204 - CNBCHD -duplicate of 1116?
1205 - KHNLDT -Duplicate of 1008?
1206 - UHD - Duplicate of 1605?

I just checked the OTW HD DVR in the living room, the the guide data for 1202 is the same as 1555 there. I guess the tivo (tribune) data is wrong. Also there is no 1201, there's a 1207 Olympic Video on Demand channel there. That must be the correct channel# for what I'm showing as 1201, I guess. Neither are in the TAs map.

I guess I will disable the new duplicates? Not sure what's going on with these. Anybody know? I'll try to remember to check them when the full coverage starts on Saturday.

Happy recording everybody. How many hours of curling will you record?


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## Icarus

grrr, lineup change today screwed up USAHD/1555, so the guide data is now skewed by 2 hours.

Were they trying to fix 1202? crap.

-David


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## dbtom

Hi all,

My parents live in Honolulu. They currently have 2 Series 2 Tivos hooked up to HDTVs using Oceanic analog. Needless to say, it doesnt look so hot. My father wants to get a Tivo Premiere, but I thought it might end up costing them a lot since they dont have digital cable.

Does anyone know what the additional cost would be to go to a cable card based DVR? Can you get a cable card without upgrading to digital cable? Right now I believe analog cable is part of their monthly maintenance. Really they only need the major networks in HD. I know they can tune these channels clear QAM, but Tivo wont use them without a cable card.

For the pricing sheet I am guessing the cost for a Tivo Premiere will be:

$60 install

_Monthly charges
_~$20 upgrade from basic to digital
$2.54 (cable card- assuming M-Stream)
$0 (tuning adapter)
http://www.oceanic.com/products/television/digital_cable/pricing


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## Icarus

I have no idea if you can do what you want with OTW or not, or if it will work. For pricing, you should probably contact them. At one point or another, most of us have been surprised by their pricing for cable cards w/ Tivo plus the bundling they tend to do.

-David


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