# Tivowebplus 2.0



## jonphil (Aug 7, 2002)

I just wondered if anyone had tried the new Tivowebplus 2.0.0 software on a UK Tivo yet?

http://thomson.tivo.googlepages.com/TivoWebPlus

I'm currently using the 1.3.1 release, but not sure if I should 'upgrade' or not


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

I think John1980 uses a UK Tivo, doesn't he?

If so, it must work. But then he's clever enough to fix it if doesn't, I'm not


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## Pugwash (May 23, 2003)

I've only just put 1.3.1 on!


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## andyjenkins (Jul 29, 2001)

I've been running 1.4 for a couple of weeks now .. no problems.

I'll upgrade to 2.0 now .. and report back in .. ohh .. 10 minutes ??


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## andyjenkins (Jul 29, 2001)

Installation went OK.



> - Extract update script
> - Extract new software
> - Software updated from '1.4.0 (oztivo-070103)' to '2.0.0 (oztivo-070111)'
> - TivoWebPlus restarting in 10 seconds
> ...


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## andyjenkins (Jul 29, 2001)

Seems that everything that worked before still works. So yes .. I've run 2.0 on a UK TiVo, and it works.


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## Tony Hoyle (Apr 1, 2002)

Does it add any new features applicable to UK Tivos or is it best to stick with standard TW still?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

andyjenkins said:


> Seems that everything that worked before still works. So yes .. I've run 2.0 on a UK TiVo, and it works.


TivoWebPlus is exactly the same software as TivoWebPlus 1.4 Beta without any changes.

This is purely a change of name which follows on from a discussion I had with the developer of TivoWebPlus 1.4 Beta on the Tivo Underground section.

The point we discussed and that he ended up agreeing on was that TivoWebPlus 1.4 Beta is not merely the next version of TivoWebPlus 1.3.1, because unlike 1.3.1 it fails to offer any form of backward compatibility with or support for the old modules written for TivoWeb 1.9.4 (unlike TivoWebPlus 1.3.1), unless the authors of those module agree to co-operate by rewriting them in the TivoWebPlus version of TCL.

The whole point of TivoWebPlus 1.4 Beta, or TivoWebPlus 2 as it shall hereafter be known, is to overcome the problem of regular unexplained reboots for users of the software using channel platforms with large channel lineups like DirectTv (DTivo) or our own Sky Digital platform. As these platforms have large channel lineups TivoWebPlus 2 works differently in some way in handling the database compared to TW1.9.4 and TWP 1.3.1 so as not to experience the memory overlfow issue that then leads to the eventual complete Tivo reboots when several more demanding TivoWeb modules are used in succession.

This all seems a very good idea in theory but my only concern is whether we can persuade the authors of seminal TivoWeb 1.9.4 modules like Highlights, Tracker and Daily Mail Jazz to go to the trouble of rewriting them in the TivoWebPlus compliant version of TCL. The author of TivoWebPlus 2.0 (nee 1.4 Beta) assures me the workload involved in adjusting a TivoWeb1.9.4 module for TivoWebPlus is only comparatively modest.

Another interesting point that came out of this whole discussion is the realisation that those of you who use TivoWeb with only Freeview or even aerial will probably not be getting the unexplained reboots when using TivoWeb but those of us who use Sky Digital or NTL Digital or worse still a dual Sky Digital and Freeview setup will be suffering the reboots quite often when making active use of the TivoWeb interface. It is stopping these reboots under both TivoWeb 1.9.4 and TivoWebPlus 1.3.1 that TivoWebPlus 2.0 aims to achieve.

See the below link for the Tivo Underground thread and discussion. Its actually a thread about the Manual Record module for TivoWeb and TivoWebPlus, which then developed into a discussion of TivoWebPlus 1.4 Beta for reasons that really aren't worth worrying about. The discussion about TivoWebPlus 1.4 and why it should be called TivoWebPlus 2.0 is all on the page of thread which the below URL inks to:-

www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=117985&page=6


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## OrangeDrink (Feb 10, 2004)

Wish I could remember if I installed 1.3. or 1.4 now...

With these reboots would they be less likely to happen if I'd deleted a lot of Channels from my Channel List on Sky Digital?

Because of viewing habits even though they are received I ditched things like the Music Channels and Childrens Channels from Tivo. Because I was getting Season Pass Upcoming Episodes repeated 14 times for all the BBC regions I scrapped all of those channels too along with a ton of others.

By doing that have I made it less likely that Tivo will reboot on me?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

OrangeDrink said:


> Because of viewing habits even though they are received I ditched things like the Music Channels and Childrens Channels from Tivo. Because I was getting Season Pass Upcoming Episodes repeated 14 times for all the BBC regions I scrapped all of those channels too along with a ton of others.
> 
> By doing that have I made it less likely that Tivo will reboot on me?


No it doesn't make any difference according to the TivoWebPlus 1.4/2.0 guy. Its the total size of the database that TivoWeb has to look stuff up in that counts.

I only have a Freesat Sky setup myself and only have 30 or 40 channels marked as ones I view but I still get the reboot issue. And I went for the dual Sky/Freeview setup from the moment I had Sky installed as well as Freeview and that in turn was before I added the Cachecard so I will never know if I would be rebooting free under TivoWeb if I had stuck to just Freeview alone. But I can't use just Freeview because the signal here is rubbish and I can't get two of the multiplexes reliably half the time.

Anyhow I thought you were in NZ OrangeDrink so how come the database you are accessing is one covering the Sky Digital channels?


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## Pugwash (May 23, 2003)

Cheers for the explanation Pete77. I sometimes find after using TiVoWebPlus 1.2.1 (and now 1.3.1) that my TiVo hangs in some way. It usually becomes unresponsive and pretends to be recording when it's long since crashed.
I may well try 2.0 this weekend.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Pugwash said:


> Cheers for the explanation Pete77. I sometimes find after using TiVoWebPlus 1.2.1 (and now 1.3.1) that my TiVo hangs in some way. It usually becomes unresponsive and pretends to be recording when it's long since crashed.
> I may well try 2.0 this weekend.


But as significant TivoWeb 1.9.4 modules like Tracker and Highlights aren't supported by TivoWeb 2.0 realistically the only sensible option is to run both Tivoweb 1.9.4 and TivoWebPlus 2.0 on the machine both pointing at the same port in their cfg files and then using the latest version of Hackman to change from one to the other if you need to use functions and modules that the other version doesn't support.

Hopefully in time the TivoWeb 1.9.4 module writers will all be persuaded to rewrite them to be compatible with TivoWebPlus 2.0


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

> latest version of Hackman


I don't think the latest Hackman 4.2.8 is compatible with TWP 2.0


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

RichardJH said:


> I don't think the latest Hackman 4.2.8 is compatible with TWP 2.0


Well that would mean changing between them using Sanderton's Startup Editor.

Alternatively you could load them both in the Startup file with tivoweb.cfg files for each pointing at different ports. However this is not advised as having both versions of TivoWeb in memory at once seems to cause serious problems to Tivo's own menus.

If the author of TivoWebPlus 2.0 wants his product to succeed he needs to persuade Portland Paw to rewrite his Hackman module to make it compatible as soon as possible.


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## OrangeDrink (Feb 10, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> No it doesn't make any difference according to the TivoWebPlus 1.4/2.0 guy. Its the total size of the database that TivoWeb has to look stuff up in that counts.
> 
> I only have a Freesat Sky setup myself and only have 30 or 40 channels marked as ones I view but I still get the reboot issue. And I went for the dual Sky/Freeview setup from the moment I had Sky installed as well as Freeview and that in turn was before I added the Cachecard so I will never know if I would be rebooting free under TivoWeb if I had stuck to just Freeview alone. But I can't use just Freeview because the signal here is rubbish and I can't get two of the multiplexes reliably half the time.
> 
> Anyhow I thought you were in NZ OrangeDrink so how come the database you are accessing is one covering the Sky Digital channels?


I am now back in NZ, as you probably gathered from my other posts, I set up my old Thomson for my parents in S Wales. As mentioned in another post my dad managed to get it to reboot while TivoWebPlus was attempting to produce the HiGuide page. I'm guessing this could be why it crashed and rebooted. That page does take ages to load and I think he might have started repeatedly clicking "Today" on it. That's my suspicion anyway.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

OrangeDrink said:


> I'm guessing this could be why it crashed and rebooted. That page does take ages to load and I think he might have started repeatedly clicking "Today" on it. That's my suspicion anyway.


Almost any more demanding TivoWeb 1.9.4 or TivoWebPlus 1.3.1 modules can crash TivoWeb when run in succession, especially if the platform is Sky Digital with its large number of channels and large channel database. The solution to this is reputedly TivoWebPlus 2.0 (formerly 1.4 Beta) but fewer add on modules have so far been made compatible with it.

Are your parents in South Wales, UK or in New South Wales, Australia?

If they are in the UK then how did you manage to make a Virgin Tivo work here. Perhaps you had better PM me as I don't think we are allowed to discuss such things in the forum. Or are they in NSW which seems more likely as hacking the Tivo program data in Aus and NZ is the only way to make one work.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

I have not experienced these reboots, so I'm sure it's as much to do with what modules you use as it is the version of TW.

Also I've run two or even three versions of TW simultaneously (1.9.4, WML, and a some version of TW+) with no issues.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> I have not experienced these reboots, so I'm sure it's as much to do with what modules you use as it is the version of TW.
> 
> Also I've run two or even three versions of TW simultaneously (1.9.4, WML, and a some version of TW+) with no issues.


What is your program source? If its Aerial Only or Aerial + Freeview then you won't get these issues as its having a source with a very large EPG that causes the reboot problems apparently.

I find using two or three very demanding TivoWeb modules in succession like Highlights, Tracker, Now Playing with Sort or Search by Advisory Codes is required to eventually see the Tivo do a reboot. I have modied the TIVOSH_POOLSIZE setting in my tivoweb (no extension) file in my /var/hack/tivoweb-tcl directory to 3244068 as recommended in an effort to overcome this issue.

The develeoper of TivoWebPlus 2.0 suggests it is the database size for Sky Digital and Direct Tv which causes these issues. His TivoWebPlus v 2.0 is aimed at overcoming these problems but is not compatible with third party moules originally written in a format suitable for TivoWeb v1.9.4 (which TivoWebPlus v1.3.1 provides backward compatibility for but TivoWebPlus v2.0 does not).

Also having a very large Now Playing list like my 600+ items is no doubt a major contributory factor when running some module like Now Playing with Sort in TivoWeb in causing the reboots. With your hard drive capacity you are unlikely to have a very large Now Playing list.


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## OrangeDrink (Feb 10, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> Almost any more demanding TivoWeb 1.9.4 or TivoWebPlus 1.3.1 modules can crash TivoWeb when run in succession, especially if the platform is Sky Digital with its large number of channels and large channel database. The solution to this is reputedly TivoWebPlus 2.0 (formerly 1.4 Beta) but fewer add on modules have so far been made compatible with it.
> 
> Are your parents in South Wales, UK or in New South Wales, Australia?
> 
> If they are in the UK then how did you manage to make a Virgin Tivo work here. Perhaps you had better PM me as I don't think we are allowed to discuss such things in the forum. Or are they in NSW which seems more likely as hacking the Tivo program data in Aus and NZ is the only way to make one work.


My folks are in the UK, My old Thomson had a lifetime subscription, it's all legit. All I meant by removing channels was going to the Customize Channels menu and lying to the Tivo telling it I don't get things like the Children's Channels and the BBC Regions just to simplify Season Passes and Suggestions for my parents. Not hacked or anything, just a normal Lifetime Sub TiVo that I put a 300GB HD, CacheCard and TivoWebPlus in. I was home for Xmas, set it up for em and now I'm back in New Zealand where I just bought a US Sony Tivo which I haven't set up yet. Sorry if I gave you the idea I was doing anything dodgy


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> What is your program source? If its Aerial Only or Aerial + Freeview then you won't get these issues as its having a source with a very large EPG that causes the reboot problems apparently.
> 
> I find using two or three very demanding TivoWeb modules in succession like Highlights, Tracker, Now Playing with Sort or Search by Advisory Codes is required to eventually see the Tivo do a reboot. I have modied the TIVOSH_POOLSIZE setting in my tivoweb (no extension) file in my /var/hack/tivoweb-tcl directory to 3244068 as recommended in an effort to overcome this issue.
> 
> ...


Sky.

Never used Search by Advisory codes as I know where the porn is already. 

Actually my NP is huge as it's merged from two TiVos, the second of which records loads of kid's shows in Basic/Medium.


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## B33K34 (Feb 9, 2003)

I used to get reboots and system hangs using 1.3.1 on Freeview. I think VServer may have been the main problem but i would seemingly sometimes get reboots in the middle of the night - ie not when i was actively using Tivoweb+. This eventually culminated (i assume) in the var directory being wiped. My uptimes since then have been long.

Since i can't get tivoweb 1.9.4 to work (it won't allow me to book recordings) i'll give this a try.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

B33K34 said:


> I used to get reboots and system hangs using 1.3.1 on Freeview. I think VServer may have been the main problem but i would seemingly sometimes get reboots in the middle of the night - ie not when i was actively using Tivoweb+. This eventually culminated (i assume) in the var directory being wiped. My uptimes since then have been long.
> 
> Since i can't get tivoweb 1.9.4 to work (it won't allow me to book recordings) i'll give this a try.


I no longer run Tserver memory resident on the Tivo any more as recommended by the configuration instructions for that utility and only get it to start on the Tivo by calling it directly from the PC application when I need it (i.e. once every few weeks typically). Unfortunately neither this or changing the TIVOSH_POOLSIZE setting to 3244068 in the tivoweb file have stopped the periodic reboots when in the process of using demanding utilities in TivoWeb like Search by Advisory Codes.

The reboots are most likely to happen if the machine is also recording at the same time and/or my OzTivo desktop widget also tries to poll TivoWeb for data at the same time too. However the Tivo never ever reboots on its own when I'm not using TivoWeb utilities directly in my browser at the time and even the polling of the TivoWeb server engine automatically by the OzTivo Yahoo desktop widget on my Notebook PC every 30 minutes does not make the Tivo reboot.

Touch wood my /var partition has never been wiped in the 19 months I have been running TivoWeb. I think a failing hard drive or an inadequately sized swap file are the two main reasons the /var partition gets cleared by the Tivo.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

/var gets wiped if it fails the Linux version of chkdsk twice on start-up. that can be for an number of reasons, hard disk problems certainly being one.

What exactly IS the point of "Search by Advisroy codes"?


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## Ashley (Apr 20, 2002)

TCM2007 said:


> What exactly IS the point of "Search by Advisroy codes"?


So you can look for 'naughty' films?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> What exactly IS the point of "Search by Advisory codes"?


For those who may benefit from this option it becomes obvious when they look at the list of available codes.


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

TCM2007 said:


> What exactly IS the point of "Search by Advisory codes"?


It's the Tivo equivalent of the *Red Triangle* helpfully provided by Channel 4 in the '80's.

As many of us may remember this Friday night routine:-

Come in from the pub.
Flick on Channel 4 .

No *Red Triangle* 
"I'm off to bed.";
*Red Triangle* 
"I'll just stay up to see how this turns out..."


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## B33K34 (Feb 9, 2003)

Pete77 said:


> I no longer run Tserver memory resident on the Tivo aes.
> 
> Touch wood my /var partition has never been wiped in the 19 months I have been running TivoWeb. I think a failing hard drive or an inadequately sized swap file are the two main reasons the /var partition gets cleared by the Tivo.


-----------------------------------------------
Mine had been fine for at least that long and I've not noticed any other signs of hard drive failure. I use T-server (stream) rather than v-server (extract) and was using it daily so it was normally running.

I wasn't using any of the 'heavy' tivoweb modules - really only endpad, reorder season passes and set recordings.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

B33K34 said:


> -----------------------------------------------
> Mine had been fine for at least that long and I've not noticed any other signs of hard drive failure. I use T-server (stream) rather than v-server (extract) and was using it daily so it was normally running.
> 
> I wasn't using any of the 'heavy' tivoweb modules - really only endpad, reorder season passes and set recordings.


How old are your hard drive(s) now? Could well be a sign they are on the way out?


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## B33K34 (Feb 9, 2003)

The oldest of the pair is probably 3 1/2 years old, the other about a year younger (i ran 120 plus the original 40 for a while). I don't see any point scrapping them before they fail though i suspect that a Samsung 250 or 300gb drive would only cost me about £50 now.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

B33K34 said:


> The oldest of the pair is probably 3 1/2 years old, the other about a year younger (i ran 120 plus the original 40 for a while). I don't see any point scrapping them before they fail though i suspect that a Samsung 250 or 300gb drive would only cost me about £50 now.


Three years old is probably in the failure zone I would say as is any drive over three years old used in a Tivo.

The only reason to replace them before they fail though is so as not to lose all your thumbs data or recordings, although keeping your recordings can be a problem anyway in some upgrade configurations.


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