# Last One Out, Please Unplug the HR-10



## jmrife (Jan 12, 2004)

After a month of using my two HR20s, I have to say I don't miss the HR10s. 

Sure, there are some muscle-memory moves that I am having to relearn, but overall, the new units are just as reliable as the old ones.

My Harmony remotes work just fine, same basic config. My wife hardly noticed.

And I was able to sell my HR10s for cash. Which means my upgrade actually earned me $200.

What are you waiting for? When D10 lights up next month, there will be a rush to the exit and you don't want to be left behind.

I loved Replay, moved on to TiVo. I loved TiVo, moved on to HR20. I love my HR20s, for now and until the next big thing appears.

My money says you will, too. 

Move on, boys.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

What am I waiting for?

I'm waiting for my HD locals (DMA is 157 and we don't have all networks OTA, which impacts DirecTV delivery) and for the dust to settle.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

I'm waiting for the HR20 to reliably record what I want when I want without any manual intervention and without cutting shows short. I already have a HR20 but the HR10-250 is still my primary receiver. The HR10-250 is still a much more reliable product IMHO. Even though the new satellite will be mpeg-4 HD, I'm not sure how much of the programming is going to be HD and how much is going to be standard definition up converted.


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## jmrife (Jan 12, 2004)

JimSpence said:


> What am I waiting for?
> 
> I'm waiting for my HD locals (DMA is 157 and we don't have all networks OTA, which impacts DirecTV delivery) and for the dust to settle.


In that regard, I still have my locals OTA as well as by LIL. Just in case, you understand.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

And, we are still waiting for our SD locals. 

I get ABC, CBS, Fox and PBS via OTA. No NBC or CW available, hence not knowing what DirecTV will do when our DMA # comes up.


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

jmrife said:


> Move on, boys.


Don't let the...

Oh, nevermind.


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## JoeTiVo (Jun 25, 2001)

I was waiting too... but I succumbed and did the dirty deed today. I feel greasy.  

I've been wait and waiting, but finally decided to go ahead and upgrade my HR10-250 to the HR20. It's a sad day here in this Tivo family (we even have matching license plates, TIVOGUY and TIVOGAL). I got the deal at NO charge, but I was required to 'trade-in' the HR10. I didn't realize that was going to happen, but I guess it's not a big deal as, and this what concerns me, I was told I really had no option if I wanted to continue to receive HD. The retention rep told me that by the end of the year, the HR10 will be obsolete as they are moving all of the HD channels to the new Sat and to the MPEG4 format. 

Is this true? I've read most of the threads here on the subject, but I must have missed that fact? Are the HR10s going to be doorstops by the end of the year? The rep I spoke to was VERY knowledgeable. Unlike most, he had a good grasp on all the other facts that I was aware of.

We still have one Tivo (and old Sony Series1) left that we use on standard def TVs. But it's still quite a culture shock to use to know we'll not be using a Tivo for our main viewing in our home theater.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

JoeTiVo said:


> Are the HR10s going to be doorstops by the end of the year?


Not by any stretch of the imagination. They will be able to receive all mpeg-2 based programming and OTA ATSC signals. They will still get guide data from DirecTV. It is not even clear when DirecTV plans to turn off the existing mpeg-2 HDTV feeds.


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## JoeTiVo (Jun 25, 2001)

rminsk said:


> Not by any stretch of the imagination. They will be able to receive all mpeg-2 based programming and OTA ATSC signals. They will still get guide data from DirecTV. It is not even clear when DirecTV plans to turn off the existing mpeg-2 HDTV feeds.


Well, right. I shouldn't have used the term doorstop. They would still receive standard def programming. But, according to this rep, they will no longer receive HD signals as they are all being moved over to the new bird to allow for more room on the existing Sat for more locals.

That's what I was told anyway. But, we do know how those D* reps can be.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

> What are you waiting for? When D10 lights up next month, there will be a rush to the exit and you don't want to be left behind.


A lot of us Tivo users are going to hang around and see if there is going to be a DTivo mpeg4 HD.

Despite what some people say about the HR20, it is not enjoying a good reputation. Look at the survey numbers for DirecTV - they dropped the most of all of the cable and satellite vendors. There is a survey on Engadget showing less than half of the people think its ready for primetime while a quarter of them say absolutely not. Another story on CNET news suggested that the HR20 had a higher number of folks not liking it compared to the normal number of folks speaking up about not liking a product.

Neither of those suggest overwhelming support for DirecTV's dvr.


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## JoeTiVo (Jun 25, 2001)

RS4 said:


> A lot of us Tivo users are going to hang around and see if there is going to be a DTivo mpeg4 HD.


I can certainly understand that. I hated to order a HR20, but I didn't want to miss out on some of my favorite channels in HD.

I'll be the first in line to go back to an HD Tivo if they do work with D* to develop an MPEG4 compliant unit.


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## Todd (Oct 7, 1999)

I just got my HR20 installed yesterday, so I now have an HR10 and an HR20. I'm still learning the HR20, but I come to appreciate even more, the elegant simplicity of the TiVo interface. The HR20 is not bad and should improve even more. It still needs full DLB support and they badly need to work on the FF/REW/skip keys, particularly their ability (or lack thereof much of the time...) to skip to the next tick mark and begining/end of the buffer. It does not work very well! Also, I can't get it to display video correctly on my HDMI connected HDTV and my other analog TV's in the house that I have the video distributed to at the same time


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

jmrife said:


> What are you waiting for? When D10 lights up next month, there will be a rush to the exit and you don't want to be left behind.


I'm waiting on my DTV commitment to wind down another month and to see whether there will be any big discounts on the TiVo S3 before deciding on that vs the TiVo HD.

My exit is marked "cable" so unless there are a lot of HR10 owners in the WOW market area I don't think I need to worry about a rush.



> Move on, boys.


Soon enough.


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## Garth H (Jan 2, 2002)

RS4 said:


> A lot of us Tivo users are going to hang around and see if there is going to be a DTivo mpeg4 HD.


Yeah, that would be me. Sure HD channels do look great, but given that we don't have a huge HD set (only 37") Zoomed SD shows look okay. We'll pull our locals off an antenna for the time being and wait for the Mpeg4 DTivo.


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## Chuck_IV (Jan 1, 2002)

rminsk said:


> I'm waiting for the HR20 to reliably record what I want when I want without any manual intervention and without cutting shows short. I already have a HR20 but the HR10-250 is still my primary receiver. The HR10-250 is still a much more reliable product IMHO. Even though the new satellite will be mpeg-4 HD, I'm not sure how much of the programming is going to be HD and how much is going to be standard definition up converted.


I am doing the same, currently. I am using the HR20, as my primary receiver, but I am keeping the HR10-250 running, in parallel because of the suspect reliability. The thing that scares me is that I have already lost ALL my recordings once(luckily it was right after I got my box, so I only lost 2 recordings), due to the box locking up(this was when it updated my software). This NEVER EVER happened with any of my Tivos and IMO should never ever happen on the HR20, short of a catastrophic failure. I will fear my next forced software update, on the HR20, I can tell you that.

As for cutting things short or not starting on time, I've had this problem, in the past with my HR10-250 before, so it's nothing new. I ALWAYS pad my recordings by a minute or 2, just to be sure.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

I picked up my first HR20 yesterday. So far I don't mind the new interface at all. It seems less cartoonish than the DTivo it replaced. Installer said they were gearing up for September when they expect to be back logged several weeks once the new HD channels come on online and football starts.


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## jmrife (Jan 12, 2004)

HiDefGator said:


> Installer said they were gearing up for September when they expect to be back logged several weeks once the new HD channels come on online and football starts.


That's what I've been saying. It will soon be too late to be early. In another couple of weeks, new install appointments will be sometime around Halloween.

Scary thought, that.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

jmrife said:


> That's what I've been saying. It will soon be too late to be early. In another couple of weeks, new install appointments will be sometime around Halloween.
> 
> Scary thought, that.


What's the big rush? All that is happening in September is that there will be more HD-capable channels. That doesn't mean it's HD content. How many of those new channels will be using HD cameras or is most of it just going to be the occasional program?


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

RS4 said:


> What's the big rush? All that is happening in September is that there will be more HD-capable channels. That doesn't mean it's HD content. How many of those new channels will be using HD cameras or is most of it just going to be the occasional program?


Either way, I can't wait. I can only dream of the day when every channel is HD.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

The HD channels that roll out in September are just the tip of the iceberg, and I expect new HD channels to roll out every month. I also expect installers to be very busy, with appointment windows at least three to five weeks out, especially in my area, where installations generally run two to three weeks out.


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## gworkman (Feb 6, 2006)

What happened to "all Non-Tivo receiver talk will be taken off site"?


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

:shrug: Long as it's non technical stuff and helping us to make informed decisions ...*I* don't have a problem with it. The conversations that have gone on lately have been good ones.

My opinion.


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## parzec (Jun 21, 2002)

jmrife said:


> My money says you will, too.


I accept your challenge and your money. I only take paypal and money orders, no personal checks. Thanks.


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## bustergonad (Jul 15, 2001)

One quick question....

I'm holding off getting the HR20 because I'll be moving shortly and I figured I'd just do the swap then. However if the sunday ticket HD broadcasts will only be in MPEG 4 then I'll switch now.
So, will Sunday Ticket HD broadcasts be in MPEG 2/4 or only in MPEG 4??

Thanks,
Roy


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## gworkman (Feb 6, 2006)

It is the belief around the forums that this will be the last year that ST-HD will be broadcast with MPEG2. The go-live date of the new sat is mid September. It would be too difficult for D* to get all ST subs switched over in time for this season. Certainly, by next year, you'll have to make your move.


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## CorrysD (Dec 9, 2002)

bustergonad said:


> So, will Sunday Ticket HD broadcasts be in MPEG 2/4 or only in MPEG 4??


One issue regarding this question is the fact that CBS will have more HD games per week this year than they have in the past. Is there enough bandwidth to deliver the extra games in MPEG 2?


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## Wisegoat (May 22, 2004)

CorrysD said:


> One issue regarding this question is the fact that CBS will have more HD games per week this year than they have in the past. Is there enough bandwidth to deliver the extra games in MPEG 2?


The guess right now is that they will still need to turn off TNT or UHD, as there is still not enough bandwidth on the MPEG2 birds. D10 is MPEG4 only.


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

I am thinking this through...

We all agree that at some point the HR10 will not get any HD channels.

In a few weeks, wave after wave of new HD's channels will start coming. Next year starts the next round with D11.

Today you can still sell your HR10 for $100-$200 on eBay. Two months ago it was $300+.

Swami gives the "secret" to $99 deals on the HR20:

http://www.tvpredictions.com/tivoupgrade080307.htm

but you may be able to do better and keep your HR10s for resale:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=62089&page=57

What will be the value of an HR10 on eBay in 4 weeks?

What will turn out to have been the best time to switch?

- Craig


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## lamontcranston (Nov 14, 2003)

Excellent thread... 

It brings up the importance of content. The receiver is only a small part of the experience. If it doesn't deliver the content, it doesn't have a lot of use.


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## SeattleCarl (Nov 11, 2005)

RS4 said:


> A lot of us Tivo users are going to hang around and see if there is going to be a DTivo mpeg4 HD.


So far, there has been absolutely no indication that this will happen, and there have been various indications that it won't happen.

I keep waiting to win the lotto - at least there is a remote possibility of that happening (if I buy a ticket) 

Carl


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

At this point, do you think part of the reason they are not going back to TiVo might be ego?

When DIRECTV split form TiVo, they were determined that they could build as good a TiVo as TiVo. Years later, you can debate which is better. Both have their strong points.

If you led that programming team, would you ever want to throw out your work and declare that you failed? 

- Craig


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

lamontcranston said:


> Excellent thread...
> 
> It brings up the importance of content. The receiver is only a small part of the experience. If it doesn't deliver the content, it doesn't have a lot of use.


One man's content is another man's crap.

If I sift through all the "content" DirecTV is promising I come up with a grand total of 10 HD channels that I actually care about that I can't get today on cable. That compares to 4 HD cable channels I care about that are not available through DTV (plus 4 more SD that I'd like). This assumes that my cable provider adds nothing in the next year.

"Content" is not as cut and dried as the channel counters at DTV would like you to think.


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## thedeak08 (Jul 21, 2006)

I have one of each, and while the HR20 is cool, I still prefer the HR10 for 2 reasons.

-DUAL LIVE BUFFERS

-The fast forward, 30 second skip, 7 second replay, and all the other movement buttons. The HR20 takes too long when you are trying to hit the replay button, you have to wait a few seconds between hitting it. Those aren't even close to the Tivo.


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## Mr Pieces (Mar 26, 2001)

I pulled the trigger last week and ordered an HR20. I will keep my 2 HR10's and see what happens. FOr $21.54 how can I go wrong on a HR20. I needed 2 new lines installed in the new family room of our house and it was free along with new dish and multiswitch. Hopefully the new content is worth it.

I have been with TiVo since 1999 and absolutely love TiVo but no new HD channels forces me to try the alternative (HR20)


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## jmrife (Jan 12, 2004)

milominderbinder said:


> At this point, do you think part of the reason they are not going back to TiVo might be ego?
> 
> When DIRECTV split form TiVo, they were determined that they could build as good a TiVo as TiVo. Years later, you can debate which is better. Both have their strong points.
> 
> ...


 A huge couple of reasons are:

1. No "per receiver" license fee from D to TiVo. A big revenue swing right there.

2. Relying on their own company, not an outside vendor, for their premium product. It is like GM outsourcing all their drive trains to Ford. It works, but the idea just leaves a bad taste in their corporate mouth.


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## MailDeadDrop (Aug 10, 2007)

jmrife said:


> A huge couple of reasons are:
> 
> 1. No "per receiver" license fee from D to TiVo. A big revenue swing right there.
> 
> 2. Relying on their own company, not an outside vendor, for their premium product. It is like GM outsourcing all their drive trains to Ford. It works, but the idea just leaves a bad taste in their corporate mouth.


Umm, I'd make the analogy more like "GM outsourcing their anti-lock braking systems to Siemens VDO". Oh, wait, they already do that...

When you reduce the companies to their core competency, DirecTv and TiVo do not compete. DirecTv is a content provider, whereas TiVo is an A/V equipment maker. DirecTv's foray into the DVR market (with the HR20) muddies the water abit though. It's like Clear Channel Radio Network trying to cut in on Blaupunkt's or Alpine's car audio market. In both cases I'm sure the content provider would *like* to get some of that premium profit, but one has to wonder if it is really in their best interest to try.

MDD


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

lamontcranston said:


> Excellent thread...
> 
> It brings up the importance of content. The receiver is only a small part of the experience. If it doesn't deliver the content, it doesn't have a lot of use.


Nor does it have a lot of use if you don't like using the box.


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## gquiring (Dec 13, 2002)

My decision is now even more difficult. Verizon ran the fiber down our block about 2 weeks ago. They are still in the neighborhood pulling the rest of the streets. I just can't get any estimate of when it will go live. I hate my HR10 since the 6.x update. Many of my recordings are truncated (plenty of disk free) and the audio drop outs and green screens continue to annoy me. That two year deal really stinks.


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

HR10's were $1,000 14 months ago, $400 last winter, $300 in the spring and as much as $200 a week ago.

I am curious what you think. What do you think standard HR10's go for on eBay on Sept 17th?


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## bundini (Aug 5, 2002)

Other than the locals, has anyone seen a list of HD Channels that DirecTV plans to add in September. I can't find it. I realize that eventually, everything will convert, but it might inform the urgency of my switch if I could see what is available beginning in September. I receive my locals OTA, so their carriage isn't all that compelling....
Anyone have any convincing arguments, other than beating the rush, to make the switch now?


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

bundini said:


> Other than the locals, has anyone seen a list of HD Channels that DIRECTV plans to add in September. I can't find it. I realize that eventually, everything will convert, but it might inform the urgency of my switch if I could see what is available beginning in September. I receive my locals OTA, so their carriage isn't all that compelling....
> Anyone have any convincing arguments, other than beating the rush, to make the switch now?


These contract delivery dates have been announced publicly...

There are the 14 Current National HD Channels
HBO East
Showtime East
ESPN HD
ESPN2 HD
Discovery HD Theater
HDNet
HDNet Movies
TNT in HD
Universal HD
HD PPV
ABC (75%, local, 10% national feed waivers)
CBS (75% local, 10% national feed waivers)
NBC (75% local, 10% national feed waivers)
Fox (75% local, 10% national feed waivers)

24 Contracts Require Delivery in September
A&E HD
Animal Planet 
Cinemax East
Cinemax West
Chiller HD
CNBC HD
Discovery Channel 
HBO East 
HBO2 East
HBO West
HBO2 West
HBO Family East
HBO Family West
HBO Latino
HBO Signature
MoreMax
TLC
The Science Channel
Starz East
Starz West
Starz Edge
Starz Comedy
Starz Kids & Family
The History Channel HD

That's a total of 38 HD Channels if you are keeping score contracted for availability in Sept. that have been stated publicly.

21 Contracted 2007 Deliveries not promised as September Delivery:
ABC Family
Big Ten Network
Bravo
Cartoon Network
CNBC
CNN
ESPNNEWS HD
Food Network
FX
HGTV
MTV
National Geographic
NFL Network
SciFi Channel
Showtime West
Speed
TBS
The Tennis Channel
The Weather Channel
USA Network
Versus HD

So that is 59 named HD channels promised for this year.

Add in the 10+ RSN's in HD and we found 69 of the promised 100 channels for 2007.

Also they have stated that they will offer the following channels but we have heard they may not arrive until 2008:
Disney Channel
Discovery Health
Discovery Military
Toon Disney

We are still only at 73 HD Channels.

We know that there are at least 30 other HD channels are already being broadcast or announced but not promised by DIRECTV. Those remain to be seen.


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## bundini (Aug 5, 2002)

Thanks .... great to have that list. Looks like a lot of movie channels that I don't subscribe to, so maybe I shouldn't be in such a hurry to change out my 2 HR-10 boxes.

The other concern I have... we get the network national feeds (all except CBS and Fox East Coast feeds)...and have for over 12 years...and I'm addicted to them... couldn't imagine living without them. The combination of east & west coast feeds and 2 machines with dual tuners... well, you get the picture.

When I switch over to the HR-20 and begin receiving locals in HD from DirecTv, am I in danger of losing my national feeds?

That would be reason for me to put off the switch until I absolutely had to.


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

bundini said:


> Thanks .... great to have that list. Looks like a lot of movie channels that I don't subscribe to, so maybe I shouldn't be in such a hurry to change out my 2 HR-10 boxes...


There will be 70 HD channels by the end of September and 100 by year's end. They have stated that they would do them all now if they could but some of the content providers are asking for the delays. Only 25 or so are premium channels.

So that tells me to expect 75 non-premium HD channels this year with most next month.

I would expect to be inundated with ads on the SD channels touting the HD sister channels.

The average price for standard HR10's on eBay is still hovering around $200 this morning. So right now you would pay $19 to get the HR20 and make about $200 for selling the HR10.

Right now, you might make about $180 to upgrade your HR10 to an HR20. What will you make once the HR10's MPEG2's are turned off?

- Craig


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## jmrife (Jan 12, 2004)

I cannot understand why anyone would hesitate to do this upgrade. 

My two HR20s and an H20 cost me exactly $0.00, including the 5 lnb dish and the multi-switch. 

In one month, I will be receiving the new slate of HD programming.

Wasn't getting all the HD programming possible on a DVR the reason I spent the money for HR10 #29 from Value Electronics the week it was first available a few years ago? And added a second one later?

Wasn't making the technological leap to HD TiVo why I sold my RCA HD receiver (DC-100?), even though it still worked fine?

Won't I do it next time, too? 

So far, the new units are at least as reliable as the HD TiVo. I promise.

Either you keep up, or you fall behind. Let go.

Mike


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

jmrife said:


> I cannot understand why anyone would hesitate to do this upgrade.
> 
> My two HR20s and an H20 cost me exactly $0.00, including the 5 lnb dish and the multi-switch.
> 
> ...


A lot of us are going to wait and see if DirecTV and Tivo get back together and offer an HD meg4 product. We like the Tivo interface and would prefer to stay with Tivo if possible.


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## jmrife (Jan 12, 2004)

RS4 said:


> A lot of us are going to wait and see if DirecTV and Tivo get back together and offer an HD meg4 product. We like the Tivo interface and would prefer to stay with Tivo if possible.


I am sorry, but I think you will be waiting a long, long time sir.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

jmrife said:


> I am sorry, but I think you will be waiting a long, long time sir.


We'll see. I think we'll know something shortly after the end of the year if Malone has taken over by then.


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## bundini (Aug 5, 2002)

Here's the deal I got from DirecTV...asked about upgrading both my boxes, and was quoted a total fee of $99. Then he put me on hold for a while, came back and said his system would only allow him to upgrade one box every 6 months, so he offered the first box/dish/install for free, and said I could buy the second box at retail and they'd credit back $100. First offer like that I've seen on the forums...
Works out fine for me... I was a little reluctant to lose both Tivo boxes simultaneously anyway. I'll try out the new box, and either buy one and take their credit, or hit them up again in 6 mos.

One other thing.... it's a leased box, and I keep my old boxes.....and a 2 year commitment... which I balked at, but didn't fight too hard. I've been a DirecTv subscriber for 12 years or so... I'm not going anywhere.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 27, 2001)

RS4 said:


> A lot of us are going to wait and see if DirecTV and Tivo get back together and offer an HD meg4 product. We like the Tivo interface and would prefer to stay with Tivo if possible.


That was my original thought too, but ponder this...

How long ago was the Comcast Tivo announced and when was it released for general use (Joe smith could get one)?

And an Mpeg4 DirecTv Tivo hasn't even been announced.


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## jmrife (Jan 12, 2004)

Sirshagg said:


> And an Mpeg4 DirecTv Tivo hasn't even been announced.


And probably won't be. I am afraid that ship has sailed.


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## CessnaDriver (Oct 25, 2003)

RS4 said:


> A lot of us are going to wait and see if DirecTV and Tivo get back together and offer an HD meg4 product. We like the Tivo interface and would prefer to stay with Tivo if possible.


I don't understand this mentality at all. Why wait? To save $20? You can get an HR20 NOW for $20. Why stay with your old technology and miss out on the new features and stations?

*IF* something is announced by the end of the year as you say, it wouldn't even be out until 2009.

The new stations, playing MP3s and JPGs without hacking, caller id on the screen, the Directv Interactive features, Video on Demand, being able to put bookmarks in your recording, etc etc... just to wait and save $20..? 

Edit: And I just learned 10 minutes ago you can record the XM stations! Wow!


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## BBQ-AllStar (Jan 27, 2002)

thedeak08 said:


> I have one of each, and while the HR20 is cool, I still prefer the HR10 for 2 reasons.
> 
> -DUAL LIVE BUFFERS
> 
> -The fast forward, 30 second skip, 7 second replay, and all the other movement buttons. The HR20 takes too long when you are trying to hit the replay button, you have to wait a few seconds between hitting it. Those aren't even close to the Tivo.


,

ditto... can't watch Hockey w/o DLB.

I have 2 H10s and 2 HR20s -- I mostly use the H10s and the HR20s that I have are still buggy (non-complete recordings, no video, only audio during playback, can't change channels...).

I only got the HR20s to ween myself and get ready for the inevitable...non-tivo. Unless a MPEG-4 Tivo ever surfaces...and if so, I'll switch faster than a rabbit in heat.


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## Darichard (Dec 31, 2002)

jmrife said:


> I cannot understand why anyone would hesitate to do this upgrade.


1. Two year commitment: 6 months left on my 2 year commitment. No way am I signing up for another 2 year commit.

2. Interface: I like the TiVo, and the wife knows how to use it.

3. Reliability: I don't want to deal with the wife getting angry about missed or short recordings.

4. Going backwards: the H20 appears to be less advanced than the H10 (2 buffers, fairly reliable, good UI) - the H20 feels like a step backwards. This many years after the H10 came out the H20 should be dramatically better.

5. Dish on my roof. I still have some rain fade, some issues with snow in the winter, and too many coax runs for every room. Cable seems like the smarter choice at this point.

I can not understand why I would stay with DirecTV and not go to HD cable and an HD TiVo. btw, I've been a DirecTV subscriber since 1996 - they are not compelling me to stay.


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## coachO (Nov 26, 2004)

Well, I have had my HR20 for about a week. My old HR10-250 died ( power supply and hard drive within days of each other), but I am really thinking hard about repairing it and dumping the HR20.

At first the HR20 was not bad at all, not nearly as bad as I had heard or feared. Everything works fine. However, the more I use it it seems watching TV has become "cumbersome". 

My best option might be to just use both. The HR20 for new HD channels and Tivo for everything else. Maybe the cable HD Tivo will be the answer but I know for sure it is not the HR20.


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## dagap (Dec 5, 2003)

CessnaDriver said:


> I don't understand this mentality at all. Why wait? To save $20? You can get an HR20 NOW for $20. Why stay with your old technology and miss out on the new features and stations?


It's not just $20. It's $20 for the unit plus $10/month hd access fee. And we rarely watch those channels, so it's not an especially attractive offer for me.


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