# Soft Porn On Buy Movie Tickets (Fandango)



## beltranbot (Nov 18, 2006)

I was shocked to see that the European version of the movie poster for Backstage is being shown in the Fandango online ticket purchase service. It shows a woman on her back with her breasts exposed. 

The Fandango website has removed the poster altogether. Yahoo! Movies has the US version which shows her wearing a bra. 

If I had been browsing Tivo for movie tickets to buy with my children I would have been extremely embarrassed. This sort of nudity might be OK in Europe, but it is definitely not appropriate for the US audience. How many decency laws are being violated?


----------



## minckster (Aug 31, 2006)

Tom Rogers off to jail you go! Do not pass Go and most definitely do not collect $200 million dollars!


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

beltranbot said:


> If I had been browsing Tivo for movie tickets to buy with my children I would have been extremely embarrassed.


Really? Are you teaching your children that the human body is somehow shameful?


----------



## aridon (Aug 31, 2006)

Its a breast. If she was masturbating or something sure there would be reason to be upset but get over it. Your kids will see breasts all over skinamax when at their friends house or who knows where else. Not to say show them hard core stuff but don't hide it likes its a big deal because then it becomes one.

Just my 2 cents raise your kids how you want.


----------



## Eight47 (Feb 22, 2003)

How disgusting. So I suppose a poster of Saw or Hostel would have been fine?


----------



## ZombiE (Dec 17, 2005)

beltranbot said:


> This sort of nudity might be OK in Europe, but it is definitely not appropriate for the US audience. How many decency laws are being violated?


This is why this country is so screwed up......

You should run out and get a lawyer and sue. OMG you saw female breasts, were your kids breast feed? Holy crap, if so add yourself and your wife to the suit.

Z


----------



## beltranbot (Nov 18, 2006)

Decency laws were created by the people of this country, through their lawmakers, to uphold the values that this community has defined as decent. Violation of those laws carries serious consequences. Just ask Janet Jackson, CBS/Viacom, and the NFL. Even Howard Stern and Clear Channel felt the people's wrath as a result of this very public fiasco.

You can watch what you like in the privacy of your own home. I would die for your right to do so. But do not force my children to be subjected to this garbage. 

I use parental controls to protect my children from inappropriate content. That option is not avaialbale on this service. It is a simple software programming task to enable such controls. Probably much cheaper than a single FCC fine.

Attitudes like those that have been expressed are exactly why this country is "screwed up."


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Beltranbot: 

Hate to break this too you but the FCC doesn't have anything to do with content downloaded from the internet, which is where the content being talked about in this thread came from. 

Thanks,


----------



## mike3775 (Jan 3, 2003)

OMG kids may see a breast, big deal.

My kids see breasts just about once a week, considering its legal to breast feed in public and when I am at the mall, there is always a woman breast feedig a baby every single time.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

beltranbot said:


> Decency laws were created by the people of this country, through their lawmakers, to uphold the values that this community has defined as decent. Violation of those laws carries serious consequences. Just ask Janet Jackson, CBS/Viacom, and the NFL. Even Howard Stern and Clear Channel felt the people's wrath as a result of this very public fiasco.
> 
> You can watch what you like in the privacy of your own home. I would die for your right to do so. But do not force my children to be subjected to this garbage.
> 
> ...


What decency laws apply to a private service like Tivo???


----------



## AJRitz (Mar 25, 2002)

beltranbot said:


> Decency laws were created by the people of this country, through their lawmakers, to uphold the values that this community has defined as decent. Violation of those laws carries serious consequences. Just ask Janet Jackson, CBS/Viacom, and the NFL. Even Howard Stern and Clear Channel felt the people's wrath as a result of this very public fiasco.
> 
> You can watch what you like in the privacy of your own home. I would die for your right to do so. But do not force my children to be subjected to this garbage.
> 
> ...


So did you ban your children from breast feeding, because they might catch a glimpse of a naked breast in the process? Or did you bilndfold the little buggers when it was feeding time to protect their oh-so-delicate sensibilities?


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

beltranbot said:


> But do not force my children to be subjected to this garbage.


"Garbage"? A picture of a topless woman is garbage?

Are you serious?

Oh, and since when is a topless picture pornography, soft or otherwise?

Is Botticelli's "Birth of Venus" (aka "Venus on the Half Shell") pornography?


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

beltranbot said:


> If I had been browsing Tivo for movie tickets to buy with my children I would have been extremely embarrassed.


But you didn't.

Nothing like being "offended by proxy".


----------



## Sandlapper (Oct 26, 2003)

Getting a little worked up over nothing there aren't ya!


----------



## VanGoghLikesTivo (Jan 18, 2005)

Was KidZone activated when you saw this?


----------



## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

Oh my God, breasts. And to think that up until this hour, all I had to worry about invading my home was bird flu.


----------



## Spiff (Mar 1, 2004)

I want to thank you for bringing this to my attention. I have inspected my TiVo and found the offending poster is indeed there. I plan to keep checking every hour as a service to all TiVo users on this forum. After my wife goes to bed, I'll also check the HD TiVo in the living room.



OK, seriously, it really isn't something obvious. No, it shouldn't be showing up there, especially since TiVo has been courting parents with the "family friendly" nature of TiVo. I think this content is provided by Fandango, not TiVo. However, considering the subtlety and artistic nature of the nudity, it's not a surprise to me that it was overlooked.

The bottom line is, someone at Fandango should remove the image, parents who care about that kind of thing should know now to not view this feature with kids around, and people on both sides of this argument should try not to get so worked up about it.


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Some people might pay TiVo more for pictures of breasts.

By the way - I was pretty excited I had something to blog here, but after pulling up Fandango there's no way I could get a legible photo of those breasts. I'm not a parent, but I can't see that _grainy still_ picture with those small breasts upsetting me if I were. However the OP is free to be offended (but by posting publicly he's also free to be mocked) and free to contact someone at TiVo or Fandango about it.

But the whole thing is a little off... brand new member of the TCF with quite a bit of knowledge of the situation: _"The Fandango website has removed the poster altogether. Yahoo! Movies has the US version which shows her wearing a bra."_ I'd never even heard of the movie until now. So does this guy have an agenda here or what?


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

davezatz said:


> So does this guy have an agenda here or what?


Seeking out smut in the name of "protecting the children" maybe?


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

I agree with Dave. You shouldn't bring attention to an image like that and then not preface it by saying its really too grainy to actually see anything good.


----------



## beltranbot (Nov 18, 2006)

Folks on this thread seem to be confused about the core issue. Strawman arguments about breast feeding mothers are mere diversions. If all you can do is appeal to arguments about nursing toddlers, then stop wasting bytes. 

Art has always been a controversial topic when it comes to nudity. Even the Vatican has paintings on display that show nudity. Many of the originals had to repainted to make them acceptable to that community in its day, in spite of Michael Angelo's desire to express what can be considered "natural." 

Boticelli's Birth of Venus was never intended for a general audience. It was sold to a wealthy Medici family for private display. Many of you have pornographic art in your homes. The fact that he was much later discovered as a notable Renaissance painter has no bearing on this argument. In fact, I would argue that you make my point very well, some of his work was pornographic in its day. 

My children study the masters. They have sex education classes in school. I take my responsibility for educating my children in these matters very seriously. But what does that have to do with showing a woman half clad in a seductively inviting pose? 

There is healthy, natural sexual expression, as might be seen in National Geographic Magazine, and then there is just plain smut. Not art, smut. Not science, smut. The intentional communication of intimate sexual attraction by displaying female breasts in certain orientations, as well as displaying human genitalia for the same reason is smut. 

Worked up? Nah. This is fun. I just wish the counter arguments had merit.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

You can have your opinion as to what you want you children to see.

That's opinion.

But when you start making up stuff about deceny laws that don't exist, and FCC fines that cannot happen, then those are incorrect facts.


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

To be serious for a moment, I'm sure TiVo will have this removed by Fandango since TiVo strives to be a family safe product. Frankly, I don't think its a big deal since you can't actually see anything, but I'm sure TiVo will fix the situation for those who are offended by it.


----------



## Leon WIlkinson (Feb 13, 2000)

I feel cheated, I had to go see!


----------



## Stanley Rohner (Jan 18, 2004)

mike3775 said:


> OMG kids may see a breast, big deal.
> 
> My kids see breasts just about once a week, considering its legal to breast feed in public and when I am at the mall, there is always a woman breast feedig a baby every single time.


What's the name of the mall ?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

beltranbot said:


> Folks on this thread seem to be confused about the core issue. Strawman arguments about breast feeding mothers are mere diversions. If all you can do is appeal to arguments about nursing toddlers, then stop wasting bytes.
> 
> Art has always been a controversial topic when it comes to nudity. Even the Vatican has paintings on display that show nudity. Many of the originals had to repainted to make them acceptable to that community in its day, in spite of Michael Angelo's desire to express what can be considered "natural."
> 
> ...


Your children didn't even see it - you're upset because of something that didn't even happen. Get over it.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

beltranbot said:


> Many of you have pornographic art in your homes.


There's no such thing as "pornographic art". If it's art, it's not pornography. Just because a work of art has nudity does *not* make it pornography.


----------



## mick66 (Oct 15, 2004)

beltranbot said:


> If I had been browsing Tivo for movie tickets to buy with my children I would have been extremely embarrassed.


Why?


----------



## mick66 (Oct 15, 2004)

AJRitz said:


> So did you ban your children from breast feeding, because they might catch a glimpse of a naked breast in the process? Or did you bilndfold the little buggers when it was feeding time to protect their oh-so-delicate sensibilities?


I'm sure they were born by c-section too. Can you imagine what they could have seen if they were traditional births?


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

beltranbot said:


> Folks on this thread seem to be confused about the core issue. Strawman arguments about breast feeding mothers are mere diversions. If all you can do is appeal to arguments about nursing toddlers, then stop wasting bytes.
> 
> Art has always been a controversial topic when it comes to nudity. Even the Vatican has paintings on display that show nudity. Many of the originals had to repainted to make them acceptable to that community in its day, in spite of Michael Angelo's desire to express what can be considered "natural."
> 
> ...


If everywhere you look you see smut, perhaps it's your mind trying to make smut out of everything it sees.


----------



## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

http://www.douban.com/lpic/s1447358.jpg

If you want to see...


----------



## jaybird13 (Nov 6, 2005)

fatlard said:


> http://www.douban.com/lpic/s1447358.jpg
> 
> If you want to see...


I'm totally offended.

I was hoping for bigger breasts.


----------



## klalex (Nov 14, 2006)

beltranbot said:


> I was shocked ... If I had been browsing Tivo for movie tickets to buy with my children I would have been extremely embarrassed.


Isn't "extremely embarrassed" rather harsh for breasts? Make it a *teachable moment* to explain to your kids that such imagery is inappropriate _(your opinion, not mine)_. But, would a *bra* really make the image less seductive (aka inappropriate)? Ask the marketing pros at _Victoria's Secret_... or any other adult.

From a woman's perspective (mine), I think beltranbot's *REACTION* to breasts is what's embarrassing.


----------



## sinanju (Jan 3, 2005)

I'm reminded of a joke about a woman who calls the police to complain about a man who walks past her house every day, on his way to work, whistling dirty tunes.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

I've been watching ER reruns for the past few months on TNT-HD and they've had (female) breasts and (male) buttocks regularly enough. And the breasts they've shown have been much bigger than those in this movie ad. 

Of course they've had a lot more male breasts. Some not so pleasant to look at, too.


----------



## klalex (Nov 14, 2006)

OMG, Doug Swallow!! Is that a nipple in your i.d. photo? Is that legal? Someone is going to report you to TiVo... or the FCC.


----------



## JM1 (Jul 22, 2006)

beltranbot said:


> I was shocked to see that the European version of the movie poster for Backstage is being shown in the Fandango online ticket purchase service. It shows a woman on her back with her breasts exposed.
> 
> The Fandango website has removed the poster altogether. Yahoo! Movies has the US version which shows her wearing a bra.
> 
> If I had been browsing Tivo for movie tickets to buy with my children I would have been extremely embarrassed. This sort of nudity might be OK in Europe, but it is definitely not appropriate for the US audience. How many decency laws are being violated?


Wait, wait... Let me make sure I'm clear.

You're searching the internet for a moive called "Backstage..."

You catch a glimpse of some little boobies and start worrying about your kids...

You create a new account at TiVo Community and start an "argument," throwing around your angry emoticons, based upon what? IF you had been browsing TiVo with your kids, blah, blah...

Come on lady.


----------



## JM1 (Jul 22, 2006)

fatlard said:


> http://www.douban.com/lpic/s1447358.jpg
> 
> If you want to see...


Special thanks go out to fatlard.


----------



## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

Since the OP is dealing in hypotheticals, I'll say that IF the OP's kids had seen this poster (and I'm also curious how long she kept this picture on the screen to make sure that she was actually seeing a breast, because I had to look hard at it myself - and I can pick a breast out of a "Where's Waldo" scene) and were able to recognize the fact that they were looking at a female's breasts, then they've probably seen breasts already and the OP has bigger things to worry about.


----------



## klalex (Nov 14, 2006)

I find it interesting that a couple of you think beltranbot is a woman, while I thought him a man. He said he'd "die to protect" freedom which is a very male position... and so is being "very embarrassed" over seeing breasts. After all, us women see them every day so "shocking" and "embarrassed" is not likely to be a woman's reaction. Some of the other language seems more like a man wrote the comments from beltranbot. Perhaps he'll shed some light on this gender perception difference. As a woman, if I saw the poster, I wouldn't go looking around other sites to see what breast shots were displayed if I didn't think the first one was appropriate. Men... from your comments on here... you definitely would... and that's just in your DNA.


----------



## MarkofT (Jul 27, 2001)

beltranbot said:


> Michael Angelo's


Who?


beltranbot said:


> My children study the masters.


Including Michelangelo?


----------



## klalex (Nov 14, 2006)

"Michael Angelo" ... ya know, the hometown pal of Dave Inchey (alias Leo Nardo).


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Seriously, Kids Zone is a marketed feature of TiVo and some rely on it for this kind of thing. I love breasts and nipples, but others don't and don't want their children seeing them. They go to lengths to buy things to "protect" their young from seeing it. Yet, in the end it doesn't work. Naked breasts made it to her TV.

Much ado over nothing? Sure, but that's because it isn't important to *me*.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

good lordy..

I finally clicked on the link of the picture..
I expected some Pam Anderson'esque trallop in a sexually explicit "come hither" pose from what the OP had posted in text.

That has to be about as non-sexual, non-pornographic image of a 1/2 clothed woman I have ever seen.

If I had kids I would expect them to ask "Mommy, why does that man have such pretty hair?"

Diane


----------



## Leon WIlkinson (Feb 13, 2000)

JM1 said:


> Wait, wait... Let me make sure I'm clear.
> 
> You're searching the internet for a moive called "Backstage..."
> 
> ...


No, I believe she said the online fandango website took them down, However she was shocked to see that it was still showing on the TiVo.

which is a legitimate view.


----------



## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

At first I thought that was supposed to be Jim Morrison on his back... not a very "breasty" picture.


----------



## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

mick66 said:


> I'm sure they were born by c-section too. Can you imagine what they could have seen if they were traditional births?


Nah, that would have been okay. The (perfectly acceptable by FCC standards) blood and gore all over them would have kept them from seeing mom's naughty bits.

I'm just disappointed in the picture. It is significantly less provocative than any picture ever taken of Jessica Alba regardless of what she's wearing.


----------



## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Just wait until he gets the new, more roBust, service update.


----------



## jkovach (Feb 17, 2000)

All I could see was nipples, no boobies.  

Every body has nipples, so what's the big deal?


----------



## jtlytle (May 17, 2005)

jkovach said:


> All I could see was nipples, no boobies.
> 
> Every body has nipples, so what's the big deal?


Bingo!!


----------



## alansh (Jan 3, 2003)

I can't recall the URL, but there was a web site with an "Indecent or not?" quiz. You had to pick out the indecent (women's) naked breasts from the decent (men's) ones. Some were pretty hard to call.


----------



## beltranbot (Nov 18, 2006)

MarkofT said:


> Who?
> Including Michelangelo?


Yeah, my bad.


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Speaking of breasts, beltranbot may want to keep his/her kids (real or imagined) off of ebay:


----------



## wouldworker (Sep 7, 2004)

beltranbot said:


> You can watch what you like in the privacy of your own home. I would die for your right to do so.


Would you really? You would die so I could watch German schiesse videos in the privacy of my own home? I don't think you would.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

davezatz said:


> Speaking of breasts, beltranbot may want to keep his/her kids (real or imagined) off of ebay:


That made me LOL. Gotta love entrepreneurship...


----------



## dirtypacman (Feb 3, 2004)

One persons smut is another persons masterpiece.

That being said I am not surprised to hear a problem since Tivo is supposed to be family friendly and being "PC" is so much easier then taking a stand for the intended artist's or for that matter Movie Studio.


----------



## padmalinowski (Dec 21, 2005)

I couldn't let this priceless gem go by without comment:


> There is healthy, natural sexual expression, as might be seen in National Geographic Magazine, and then there is just plain smut.


 If you're talking about people going about their lives in their homes and habitats and who are photographed (by Americans!) with their breasts exposed, that's more what you might call cultural differences. That's the kind of thing of which you may personally disapprove, but you don't go around trashing it in public forums, because you understand that different peoples have different mores and ethos.

Oh wait.... I'm sorry, that's exactly the OPPOSITE of what you just did. My bad.


----------



## SC0TLANDF0REVER (Dec 9, 2001)

So you created a User Name/Account here on the TiVo Community *just* to complain about this?

Wow. 

Shows you just how good we have it here in the U.S. when this is all we have to complain about (looks like my mum made the right choice when she brought me here from Scotland as a wee lad).

I personally won't have an issue w/ my children (regardless of age) seeing nudity (F or M).
The human body is a wonder, not something to be ashamed of.


----------



## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

SC0TLANDF0REVER said:


> The human body is a wonder, not something to be ashamed of.


I agree, and I think TiVo is being way too prudish by not providing us with more nudity.

(They should also provide porn, but that should be child protected. They'd double their subscriptions in a heartbeat. Add gambling and you're looking at the next Microsoft. Microsoft with porn and gambling, that is.)


----------



## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

This is a plan to distract users from the TiVo price increases. Then they'll increase the again in Oct 2007


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

ChuckyBox said:


> (They should also provide porn, but that should be child protected. They'd double their subscriptions in a heartbeat. Add gambling and you're looking at the next Microsoft. Microsoft with porn and gambling, that is.)


PornZone! Now available for an extra $19.95/month. They'd be rolling in cash in no time.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

fatlard said:


> http://www.douban.com/lpic/s1447358.jpg
> 
> If you want to see...


yes - that is smut. fandango and TiVo should be made aware as the correct course of action here. If Fnadango would not display it on there web site then they should not have it on the HME app either. if you wnat to have an agenda here then have fun with that


----------



## chessplayer (Aug 18, 2004)

Yeah, I'm sure your kids will be scarred for life by seeing a breast.

"I'm so glad you enjoyed my son's blood. And your card was just great. In case you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic." -- Homer Simpson


----------



## beltranbot (Nov 18, 2006)

Its been interesting to read the reactions to this issue. As a man, I have nothing against female breasts. As a father that is trying to give his grade school son a healthy perspective of how to relate to women, I have a big problem with media that represents women in a demeaning and undignified manner. My high school kids are free to watch R rated movies, but they generally do not. Our standards are different than most of the planet. You might even say that we are not of this world. Definately not of this community.

Just because women have commented favorably about the breasts does not mean that it is okay. This has nothing to do with my gender. It has everything to do with what a corporate citizen, like TiVo, does to uphold the values upon which it was formed. If TiVo was truly concerned about families and protecting children from inappropriate content, then it would have a policy that would prevent this sort of thing from happening. 

From the KidZone section of the TiVo website: 
"Television can be a powerful force for good and for ill. It is invited into our homes and into our children's minds and hearts. It is the responsibility of concerned parents to ensure their children consume media which is age-appropriate and reflects their family's values." Franklin Graham 

"If a person walked into your house and said and did some of the things children have access to through the media  T.V. and internet  you'd call the police! We have to admit that our children are becoming more tech savvy that their parents can ever hope to be. Technology is out-pacing our ability to respond to it. TiVo is another example of enabling parents to control what their kids are exposed to." Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton 

What would it take for TiVo to live up to these glowing accolades?

This community, which values the size of their, er, hard drive, over the size of their brain is clearly not engaged in society. I guess this community brings new meaning to the term "Boob Tube." My goodness, some of you have over 2,000 postings. Get a life.


----------



## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

beltranbot said:


> Our standards are different than most of the planet. You might even say that we are not of this world. Definately not of this community.





> This community, which values the size of their, er, hard drive, over the size of their brain is clearly not engaged in society.


So you realize that your standards are different from most of the planet, but you take us to task for not siding with you? And claim that we're not engaged in society? What logic brought you to the conclusion that we're the ones with the problem?

Hell, I think most of us would agree that the poster probably shouldn't have been there, and if TiVo were aware of it, they'd try to fix it. But it was at best a mistake and at worst a bad prank. By someone, in either case, at Fandango. It's good that you pointed it out (though an call to customer support would have been more effective), but it hardly seems worth making a federal case over.

If I were a suspicious person by nature, and I am, my spider sense would be tingling over this whole episode. How was it that you, a person guaranteed to be mortified and offended, of all the TiVo subscribers in the country, so quickly found this tiny, fuzzy picture of a half-naked woman on the poster for an obscure movie, buried in the depths of the Fandango app, and then chose to come to the TiVoCommunity to express your outrage?

You shouldn't answer that, BTW, it's rhetorical.


----------



## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

beltranbot said:


> This community, which values the size of their, er, hard drive, over the size of their brain is clearly not engaged in society. I guess this community brings new meaning to the term "Boob Tube." My goodness, some of you have over 2,000 postings. Get a life.


You know what always works when a few people disagree with you? Insult the entire room! That wins the argument every time!


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

The OP has run up against the taste of other adults and obviously is in the minority there. 

TiVo does however promote Kids Zone and how Kid Friendly Tivo is. Pony's own tag line says "Got kids? Get TiVo". Would Pony mind if I gave a poster of that picture to his children? I don't know him so I can't say.

So, everyone change their standard now when looking at that photo. Don't judge whether or not it is obscene, judge whether or not it is "kid friendly". Your opinions may still be the same, or they may not, but the way TiVo is promoted, that is the standard.


----------



## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Billy66 said:


> The OP has run up against the taste of other adults and obviously is in the minority there.
> 
> TiVo does however promote Kids Zone and how Kid Friendly Tivo is. Pony's own tag line says "Got kids? Get TiVo". Would Pony mind if I gave a poster of that picture to his children? I don't know him so I can't say.
> 
> So, everyone change their standard now when looking at that photo. Don't judge whether or not it is obscene, judge whether or not it is "kid friendly". Your opinions may still be the same, or they may not, but the way TiVo is promoted, that is the standard.


Chucky and David hit the nail on the head - I think that most agree that the poster ought not have been included. However, the gross overreaction on the part of the OP is what I'm taking issue with (and the other posters seem to).

The ability to recognize that nobody's perfect, and then when a mistake like this is pointed out it's quickly fixed goes a long way towards lowering the blood pressure. Beltran, the important questions (and I'm sorry if I've missed the answer) are did you call Tivo or Fandango about this, and has the problem been fixed?

If so, forgive it and forget it. If not, then maybe you have a leg to stand on.


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

It becomes an issue of trust then. Like if your DVR misses a recording. Sure, it's just one TV show, but if it's missed, inexplicably, how can you ever trust that it will record what you need going forward? Same thing here, he can work to get this one taken care of, but how can he trust his tiVo to be Kid Friendly going forward?


----------



## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

Billy66 said:


> TiVo does however promote Kids Zone and how Kid Friendly Tivo is. Pony's own tag line says "Got kids? Get TiVo". Would Pony mind if I gave a poster of that picture to his children? I don't know him so I can't say.


I can assure you that he would not like you to do that, so send the poster to me.


----------



## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

Billy66 said:



> It becomes an issue of trust then. Like if your DVR misses a recording. Sure, it's just one TV show, but if it's missed, inexplicably, how can you ever trust that it will record what you need going forward? Same thing here, he can work to get this one taken care of, but how can he trust his tiVo to be Kid Friendly going forward?


Because, like DVR functions, it works the vast majority of the time. All technology, just like all people, has the potential to let you down by not doing what it has promised. Kid Zone is a filter, and as such it cannot be perfect without totally stopping all content (just like any filter). The value in it is that it gets rid of a huge proportion of the content to which parents object. Otherwise well-adjusted children aren't going to be "corrupted" by the occasional bit of violence, language, or sex, they're going to be corrupted by being bombarded with it so relentlessly that they think it is the norm. And I think Kid Zone can help parents with that.

As I said, I think most of us recognize that the image in question shouldn't be there (given TiVo's standards) even if we wish there were more like it. But it is unlikely that anyone's five-year-old is going to be browsing the Fandango listings in the first place, and then become permanently scarred by seeing this very mild image.

But, if this one slip up is so horrifying to someone that they can't trust TiVo anymore, then they shouldn't have TiVo. (Or TV, because this kind of thing slips through all the time. Or the internet. Or allow the kids out of the house (have you seen some of the billboards these days?). Or allow them to visit their friends who may have this content. Or let them go to school where they may be exposed to all sorts of corrupting influences.)


----------



## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

beltranbot said:


> What would it take for TiVo to live up to these glowing accolades?
> 
> This community, which values the size of their, er, hard drive, over the size of their brain is clearly not engaged in society. I guess this community brings new meaning to the term "Boob Tube." My goodness, some of you have over 2,000 postings. Get a life.


That's a pretty funny comeback and I don't find it insulting.

You don't expect in the real world to find consistency in this situation, do you?


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

I'm not endorsing the issue of trust here or in cases of missed recordings, but if your DVR has missed any, you know the uneasy feeling that comes with that.

For you to suggest that this person shouldn't own a DVR because TiVo's filter failed, I don't understand that logic. I think the OP should, can, and will get over it, but some fingers should be pointed at tivo. They created and promoted Kids Zone.

Also of note in this thread is that the title has been edited to take TiVo's name out of it as if to cleanse their responsibility, yet no person of authority has stopped by to say "hey, sorry." Odd priority structure at play there (please spare me the "TiVo doesn't operate this site" garbage. They know this thread is here.)


----------



## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

Billy66 said:


> For you to suggest that this person shouldn't own a DVR because TiVo's filter failed, I don't understand that logic. I think the OP should, can, and will get over it, but some finger should be pointed at tivo. They created and promoted Kids Zone.


Point away. But the OP also explicitly enabled the internet content applications, so he bears some responsibility, too. And he can turn them off.



> Also of note in this thread is that the title has been edited to take TiVo's name out of it as if to cleanse their responsibility, yet no person of authority has stopped by to say "hey, sorry." Odd priority structure at play there (please spare me the "TiVo doesn't operate this site" garbage. They know this thread is here.)


I'm glad I'm not the only suspicious person here.


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Agreed Chucky, we've found common ground. The OP does not become blameless simply because TiVo has some blame in the incident. Well put.

About the suspicions, you always have to consider them whether it's with a poster who just appears or a CE/Software maker that has an "Official, Unofficial Presence."


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

ChuckyBox said:


> But, if this one slip up is so horrifying to someone that they can't trust TiVo anymore, then they shouldn't have TiVo. (Or TV, because this kind of thing slips through all the time. Or the internet. Or allow the kids out of the house (have you seen some of the billboards these days?). Or allow them to visit their friends who may have this content. Or let them go to school where they may be exposed to all sorts of corrupting influences.)


I think the odds are pretty low that the OPs kids are home schooled.


----------



## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

Beltranbot is funny and I nominate him/her/it/this thread for trolling thread of the week or month...


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Be easy jumping to troll MK. This issue is real even if the OP isn't. This got through a product being marketed as Kid Friendly. A troll? Possibly and possibly not. 

Your post is actually more trollish as it contributes nothing to the topic. Do you have an actual opinion about this mistake by TiVo and their chosen business partner? If not, look in the mirror before you cry "Troll".


----------



## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

Billy66 said:


> Be easy jumping to troll MK. This issue is real even if the OP isn't. This got through a product being marketed as Kid Friendly. A troll? Possibly and possibly not.
> 
> Your post is actually more trollish as it contributes nothing to the topic. Do you have an actual opinion about this mistake by TiVo and their chosen business partner? If not, look in the mirror before you cry "Troll".


Well, I made an educated guess.

User doesn't have many posts at all (5?) - has just recently (perhaps even today) signed up...

And, IMO, the issue is silly and ridiculous to get that upset about. Kid could see that much and more on the Health channel, Discovery channel, PBS, National Geographic Channel... Methinks it's a trollish post and therefore I called it as such... May not have been a troll, but it could qualify as a drive-by... Especially after the OP's comment about the members of the board needing to get a life.

The OP is a puritan who could be raising the next pervert... (or, the next FCC chairman, God help us all...)


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Billy66 said:


> This issue is real even if the OP isn't. This got through a product being marketed as Kid Friendly.


What's so Kid unFriendly about the image on the poster?


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Amnesia said:


> What's so Kid unFriendly about the image on the poster?


Frontal nudity.


----------



## colforbin13 (Jan 31, 2005)

Did the OP ever say if he was using KidZone when this image appeared?


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Billy66 said:


> Frontal nudity.


And frontal nudity is Kid unFriendly because...?


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Amnesia said:


> And frontal nudity is Kid unFriendly because...?


Seriously. TiVo never advertised this as "uptight-parent-friendly"; just "kid-friendly".


----------



## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

colforbin13 said:


> Did the OP ever say if he was using KidZone when this image appeared?


He didn't say, but as far as I can tell (and I'm at a disadvantage, here, since all I've ever used are DirecTV TiVos) KidZone does nothing to the extra Media features (in particular the Fandango app we're talking about).

I was on the popular side of "big deal" for most of this, but in thinking this through, would it be so much to ask that the media features be disabled when KidZone is on? I don't think so.


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

ping said:


> would it be so much to ask that the media features be disabled when KidZone is on? I don't think so.


Considering you've never seen/used KidZone, that's a pretty amazing (and inaccurate) assumption. KidZone consists of 'approved' channels for Live TV and a custom/approved Now Playing list. There's no access to settings, TiVoCast, Fandango, etc from within it.



Billy66 said:


> Be easy jumping to troll MK. This issue is real even if the OP isn't. This got through a product being marketed as Kid Friendly. A troll? Possibly and possibly not.


I believe he's here to stir things up. I could have missed it, but I didn't see him mention contacting Fandango or TiVo about this issue... they're the ones who can do something about it. And for what it's worth, I *did * contact TiVo and suggested they remove the pic or work with Fandango to do so.



beltranbot said:


> From the KidZone section of the TiVo website:
> "Television can be a powerful force for good and for ill. It is invited into our homes and into our children's minds and hearts. It is the responsibility of concerned parents to ensure their children consume media which is age-appropriate and reflects their family's values." Franklin Graham
> 
> "If a person walked into your house and said and did some of the things children have access to through the media  T.V. and internet  you'd call the police! We have to admit that our children are becoming more tech savvy that their parents can ever hope to be. Technology is out-pacing our ability to respond to it. TiVo is another example of enabling parents to control what their kids are exposed to." Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton
> ...


Maybe they'll live up to them if you turn the feature ON. Assuming you own a TiVo and assuming you have kids...


----------



## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

davezatz said:


> Considering you've never seen/used KidZone, that's a pretty amazing (and inaccurate) assumption. KidZone consists of 'approved' channels for Live TV and a custom/approved Now Playing list. There's no access to settings, TiVoCast, Fandango, etc from within it.


So sorry, I did the best I could with what few screenshots they had on their site. So you're saying that if KidZone is activated you can't see Fandango? I got the impression from the screenshots that Now Playing and live TV channels were filtered, but that the main menu was still there.

What is this thread about, then? If it's true that KidZone would have prevented this, then this is akin to being upset at images shown on Google Images with the safe search filter turned off.


----------



## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

davezatz said:


> Maybe they'll live up to them if you turn the feature ON. Assuming you own a TiVo and assuming you have kids...


That's it, thread over. Dave wins. :up:

You mean we're supposed to know what the hell KidZone is before we start talking about it???


----------



## gtrogue (Jun 18, 2001)

MickeS said:


> PornZone! Now available for an extra $19.95/month. They'd be rolling in cash in no time.


Now that is a service update I can get behind!


----------



## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

Hi folks,

Thanks for bringing this issue to our attention.

We apologize for the image in question, which is now removed from the application. We've also worked with our partners to make sure such images are not included in the future.

Just to clarify about KidZone: It is true that if you have KidZone enabled, it is NOT possible to go to the "Browse & Buy Movie Tickets" application, so KidZone users would not have seen the image in question.

Our apologies again for the issue.

Best regards,
Stephen


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

gtrogue said:


> Now that is a service update I can get behind!


Considering there already is a multi-channel IP-delivered porn video service you can subscribe to now, I'm surprised TiVo hasn't considered this. As usual it's the porn distributors that are willing to jump into new technologies first. I wonder if it isn't that TiVo has avoided that on purpose...


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

dswallow said:


> Considering there already is a multi-channel IP-delivered porn video service you can subscribe to now, I'm surprised TiVo hasn't considered this. As usual it's the porn distributors that are willing to jump into new technologies first. I wonder if it isn't that TiVo has avoided that on purpose...


Are you referring to ITVN? They sent me a review box. I knew in addition to rugby/soccer and Starz that they offered porn, but I had no idea it was over 150 channels! The quality surely varies (as does the era the vignettes were produced), but the sheer quantity is amazing to me. I watched Chronicles of Narnia and Bloodrayne last week via the Starz VOD. Bloodrayne may be the worst movie I've ever seen.

I imagine TiVo considered adult content and immediately passed. There's probably a ton of money to be had, but there's also a negative connotation they probably would choose to avoid (especially given their new KidZone partnerships). Though maybe they should talk to the Marriotts and Hiltons of the world who do a nice job padding profits with adult movie rentals and manage to keep their image intact.


----------



## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Thanks for the update Stephen. :up: :up: :up: 

It's amazing how some people would rather [email protected]#ch and moan, rather than just do something constructive to fix the problem.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

davezatz said:


> Are you referring to ITVN? They sent me a review box. I knew in addition to rugby/soccer and Starz that they offered porn, but I had no idea it was over 150 channels! The quality surely varies (as does the era the vignettes were produced), but the sheer quantity is amazing to me. I watched Chronicles of Narnia and Bloodrayne last week via the Starz VOD. Bloodrayne may be the worst movie I've ever seen.
> 
> I imagine TiVo considered adult content and immediately passed. There's probably a ton of money to be had, but there's also a negative connotation they probably would choose to avoid (especially given their new KidZone partnerships). Though maybe they should talk to the Marriotts and Hiltons of the world who do a nice job padding profits with adult movie rentals and manage to keep their image intact.


If they'd create a model whereby anybody can publish streams for purchase PPV or on a subscription basis and earn a percentage of the revenue they could distance themselves from any complaints of that sort; they become just an ordering and delivery system.


----------



## MisterEd (Jun 6, 2001)

beltranbot said:


> in spite of Michael Angelo's desire......


 Is that George Angelo's brother?

Sorry, couldn't resist ...... Ohhhhh, he meant Michelangelo!

Never mind ....


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

TiVoStephen said:


> Just to clarify about KidZone: It is true that if you have KidZone enabled, it is NOT possible to go to the "Browse & Buy Movie Tickets" application, so KidZone users would not have seen the image in question.
> 
> Best regards,
> Stephen


Sweet, that should be good enough for the OP. If he isn't a troll, then this was simply user error on his part. If he doesn't come back to the thread with his tail between his legs, I'll put him firmly on the troll side myself at this point.


----------



## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

Billy66 said:


> Sweet, that should be good enough for the OP. If he isn't a troll, then this was simply user error on his part. If he doesn't come back to the thread with his tail between his legs, I'll put him firmly on the troll side myself at this point.


Why you guys insist on calling people trolls for no reason? You may agree or disagree with OP position on frontal nudity - I have no problem with that. Clearly, TiVo and particulary TiVoStephan are in complete agreement with OP.


> We apologize for the image in question, which is now removed from the application. We've also worked with our partners to make sure such images are not included in the future.


This statement is as straight as it could be. TiVo confirmed that they indeed are family oriented business and OP expectations were justified. I think that people who were trying to belittle OP have to come back with their tail between their legs.


----------



## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Wikipedia said:


> In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who enters an established community such as an online discussion forum and intentionally tries to cause disruption, most often in the form of posting inflammatory, off-topic, or otherwise inappropriate messages.


Entered an estabilished community? Check.

Intentionally tries to cause disruption? Certainly looks like it. If the OP was interested in a solution, he would have contacted Tivo or Fandango to make them aware.

Inflammatory, off-topic or inappropriate? Looks pretty inflammatory to me, YMMV.

It it looks like a troll and acts like a troll, guess what? Troll!!!


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

TiVoStephen said:


> Just to clarify about KidZone: It is true that if you have KidZone enabled, it is NOT possible to go to the "Browse & Buy Movie Tickets" application, so KidZone users would not have seen the image in question.


Damn.. that pretty much nails it!
So if the OP was using Kidzone to provide a safe haven for their children, Tivo would indeed be protecting them from this scandalous content.

So in the OPs scenario, clearly Kidzone is not on, thus you can't be getting any benefits.

It's like having all the cable skin channels, handing the remote to an 8 y.o. and then complaining that the child was able to view porn and it's the cabelco's fault.

(having only cats, the closest I can come is having them occasionally tune in the dog shows and make snide comments)

OP -1
Tivo Kidzone +1

This round won easily by Tivo

Diane


----------



## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

samo said:


> Why you guys insist on calling people trolls for no reason? You may agree or disagree with OP position on frontal nudity - I have no problem with that. Clearly, TiVo and particulary TiVoStephan are in complete agreement with OP.
> 
> This statement is as straight as it could be. TiVo confirmed that they indeed are family oriented business and OP expectations were justified. I think that people who were trying to belittle OP have to come back with their tail between their legs.


Gee... someone comes in with no posts and no background and then complains about a subject that is very subjective in and of itself, then calls several members of the community losers and tells them that they need to get a life.

To top it all off, he was completely in the wrong and didn't even have it configured correctly...

How about an RTFM before coming in guns blazing when it was his own fault?

That's a troll no matter how you want to try and spin it samo...


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Mikkel_Knight said:


> To top it all off, he was completely in the wrong and didn't even have it configured correctly...
> 
> How about an RTFM before coming in guns blazing when it was his own fault?


So... the gentleman wanted to buy movie tickets. TiVo has and promotes a function to enable him to do so. He couldn't use the function if Kidzone was turned on could he? So exactly where was it "configured wrong?"


----------



## amgqmp1 (Feb 27, 2003)

I have to take a couple angles on this topic...it's just too interesting...

1 - The OP states that nudity the nudity is too strong for the US audience, but OK for the Euro audience. When I read or hear statements like this...I agree with them...and then I begin crying (inside) and god kills a kitten. Why are US kids less capable of dealing with such imagery than their Euro counterparts? It's a rhetorical question, answer as you like...

2 - It's not like they were trying to charge people for porn...that picture was (in essence) free to view. I only have a problem with porn when people want ya to pay for it... 

3 - KidsZone totally makes this point moot.

Happy Turkey Day tomorrow! (To those that celebrate it)


----------



## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

RoyK said:


> So... the gentleman wanted to buy movie tickets. TiVo has and promotes a function to enable him to do so. He couldn't use the function if Kidzone was turned on could he? So exactly where was it "configured wrong?"


If he had Kidzone turned on, he wouldn't have been able to access the apparent pornographic image.

That would be a configuration issue...


----------



## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

Mikkel_Knight said:


> If he had Kidzone turned on, he wouldn't have been able to access the apparent pornographic image.
> 
> That would be a configuration issue...


Well, in fairness, he could have viewed it, as the parent with the access code, but his kids couldn't unless he was present. So there he is, browsing the movie listings with sweet little Connor and Jordan, and suddenly there are those breasts, causing him embarrassment and dismay.

But Stephen told us what we all knew: it wasn't intentional and they actively work to prevent this kind of thing.


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Mikkel_Knight said:


> If he had Kidzone turned on, he wouldn't have been able to access the apparent pornographic image.
> 
> That would be a configuration issue...


Nor would he have been able to order movie tickets which is what he was trying to do.


----------



## Chester_Lampwick (Jul 19, 2004)

Okay some interesting points being made here. I am glad the OP posted this finding.

- the image isn't frontal nudity, more side-al nudity you don't see breasts, just one breast. The image isn't provocative to my mind, but shouldn't have appeared. My very young kids wouldn't have been interested.

- this isn't the only application to see nudity. I have a Flickr app on mine which I may have had to install by adding a media server, I don't remember.

- TiVo can't/shouldn't be responsible for all content displayed on the machine. They do strive to enable filtering by ratings for programs, and have provided KidZone which I have briefly demoed but haven't enabled.

- seemingly harmless daytime non-PayTV shows like Oprah can have shocking content. Rainbows, rape, murder being discussed. More offensive than a breast.

- KidZone has to be turned off to use certain features. My 5 year old son and his 3 year old sister like to listen to their favorite .mp3 files with the multimedia apps. This is disabled if I enable KidZone, partly the reason I don't use KidZone

- The OP was as I recall more interested about his/her potential embarrassment, then any potential psychological scarring the image would have on his/her kids.


----------



## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Chester_Lampwick said:


> - seemingly harmless daytime non-PayTV shows like Oprah can have shocking content. Rainbows, rape, murder being discussed. More offensive than a breast.


Do "rainbows" have some meaning that I'm not aware of yet? Perhaps I need to watch more Oprah.


----------



## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_party_(sexuality)


----------

