# I finally broke down and bought a Roku 3 ...



## gweempose

Like many of you, I have been extremely frustrated by the fact that you can't access Amazon Prime content on the Premiere. I finally broke down and bought a Roku 3 the other day, and all I can say is ... OMG!!! The thing is so much better than the TiVo when it comes to accessing the various streaming services. I mean, it's not even close! The interface on the Roku is fast and responsive, and the streams load WAY faster. For only $100, the Roku is an absolute steal.


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## scandia101

Even the $50 Roku LT is magnitudes better than a TiVo for streaming services.
I started with the Roku LT and quickly upgraded to the Roku XS because I wanted a wired connection and then I dove right into a Roku 3 when they hit the market.


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## aristoBrat

gweempose said:


> The thing is so much better than the TiVo when it comes to accessing the various streaming services. I mean, it's not even close!


It's pretty much Roku's entire business model at this point, so they had better be making devices that are top shelf at doing that! 

Glad you like it!


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## mikeyts

In re TiVo and streaming, Samuel Clemens supposedly said, "The remarkable thing about a dancing bear is not that it dances well" . Of course many people in these forums drank the "One Box" Kool Aid and are pissed about how poorly it does these things. I had my Series 3 before they added all of those OTT apps and never got in the habit of using them; with PLS I paid twice what my Premiere cost and I was perfectly happy with it (and really should get around to selling it while it still has some value ).

Love my Roku 3 and Roku 2 XS. I also have a WD TV Live that I'm fond of (my favorite box for Netflix, as it has this stream info display that I really like).

(This thread probably belongs in the "TiVo Coffee House" forum, having little to do with the Premiere).


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## OCSMITH

The company was founded in October 2002, by ReplayTV founder Anthony Wood


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## drcos

> ...having little to do with the Premiere


Well, since we're talking about something the Premiere *should* do...

I tried one of these, but Comca$t does 'not support' HBO Go on the Roku 3. So, it's gone. The Amazon Prime Instant worked really well, though.


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## colin1497

It's annoying to have to, but I swap over to my Blu-ray player for amazon prime. I don't do it for netflix, but the netflix interface is smoother on the blu-ray player than on my premier.


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## compnurd

My Premiere is good at being a DVR


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## crxssi

compnurd said:


> My Premiere is good at being a DVR


Even there it could use improvements- especially as it relates to the menu delays due to over-reliance on TiVo's Internet servers and poor hardware performance; and the inability to create custom folders. In any case, for traditional DVR functions, it is probably still the best out there.

But streaming is very important for TV consumption nowadays, and it is just going to get more important every year.

Personally, I don't want a TiVo that tries to be EVERYTHING. I don't want it to be a game console. Don't want it to be a web browser, a messaging platform, or VOIP device. Could care less about it displaying photos or playing music. But streaming video, playing video, storing video, hosting video, transferring video, finding and scheduling video... those are all very important even if some are not part of the traditional "DVR" role. And maybe I am in the minority, but I think all those services should use the same *TiVo* interface, style, and remote control experience. It shouldn't feel like three or four different "boxes" that are just strapped together.... otherwise, why not just do that.


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## OCSMITH

drcos said:


> Well, since we're talking about something the Premiere *should* do...
> 
> I tried one of these, but Comca$t does 'not support' HBO Go on the Roku 3. So, it's gone. The Amazon Prime Instant worked really well, though.


But it will do HBOGO on a Samsung TV with Comcast


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## celtic pride

I bought a roku HD box about 3 or 4 years ago when they were one of the first to carry netflix and i loved it ! I thought about getting the roku 3 but i cancelled netflix a while back when they raised their prices to get blu rays and streaming to $16.99 a month. If i decide to get netflix again i 'll get the roku 3 for sure. I also wish tivo would just make a tivo 6 tuner DVR WITHOUT ANY APPS!!! ,Please just make a solid DVR without all the internet stuff,PLAY TO YOUR STRENTGHS!!!which is to make a solid performing dvr which is why i bought one in the first place!!!. For the last 3 years i keep getting v301 error every so often when i try to use pandora and espically rhaposdy, Oh and by the way roku is rumored to be adding rhapsody soon so i'wont ever use these apps on tivo again uinless TIVO fixes these problems!!!


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## scandia101

colin1497 said:


> It's annoying to have to, but I swap over to my Blu-ray player for amazon prime. I don't do it for netflix, but the netflix interface is smoother on the blu-ray player than on my premier.


Really? It's annoying? I just press a button on the remote a couple of times and my tv display switches from my Premiere to my Roku. It's really no different than changing channels, which is something I've been doing for decades and I have never thought of the process as annoying.

It just astounds me that so many people are so lazy and entitled that they whine about having to press a couple of buttons while sitting on their butts and expect people to accept it as a legitimate problem.


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## atmuscarella

The only service I use my TiVos to "stream" is Pandora and that works well on my Premiere. What I do use my Premiere for is to down load pod casts and Amazon rentals and again it works well for that. I do use a HTPC some (mostly Hulu) but not that much and I have 5 streaming media only devices including 2 Rokus that I hardly use at all. Given what people have said about the Mini's performance if TiVo actually refreshes hardware this year I don't think there will be any real issues with what ever stream services they decide to provide.

My personal opinion is that new stand alone streaming devices have a very limited future. Almost all new TVs and blu-ray players have an apps package that is "good enough" for the majority of people and with a hardware refresh so should TiVo. Of course Apple TV will be fine because they sell you the content and people are locked into it, same for Google TV/android based streaming devices if they ever get their sh** together, and I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon doesn't put out there own box at some point just like they have with tablets.


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## brewman

+1. You've got to press a few buttons to get to the various streaming apps on the Tivo too. How much different is that than pressing a couple buttons to change input devices on the TV?



scandia101 said:


> Really? It's annoying? I just press a button on the remote a couple of times and my tv display switches from my Premiere to my Roku. It's really no different than changing channels, which is something I've been doing for decades and I have never thought of the process as annoying.
> 
> It just astounds me that so many people are so lazy and entitled that they whine about having to press a couple of buttons while sitting on their butts and expect people to accept it as a legitimate problem.


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## waynomo

atmuscarella said:


> My personal opinion is that new stand alone streaming devices have a very limited future. Almost all new TVs and blu-ray players have an apps package that is "good enough" for the majority of people and with a hardware refresh so should TiVo. Of course Apple TV will be fine because they sell you the content and people are locked into it, same for Google TV/android based streaming devices if they ever get their sh** together, and I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon doesn't put out there own box at some point just like they have with tablets.


So what you are saying is that Rokus are becoming superfluous to many. I was wondering about this and it seems logical to me. Does anybody disagree with this?


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## scoobydooby

My house is full of Roku units - including a Streaming Stick in my LG. They are wife approved, and that is all that matters here. Yes, my LG has "smart" features, so does my BD player, PS3 and even my Google TV box - but none of them are as good as Roku. 

The ability to set up accounts on the web makes them a whole lot easier to use than most smart devices.


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## mikeyts

I don't think that streaming STBs like Roku are going to disappear any time soon. There are tons of "legacy" televisions out there without OTT apps and they still make non-"Smart" TVs. Also, Roku has built some brand loyalty and people who have an enjoy them will probably continue to buy them.


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## tcstoehr

I work in the A/V video streaming business and IMO TV and DVD players don't do a decent job of streaming and mostly do it to satisfy a "check box" of marketing functionality. I just upgraded my series-1 tivo for a premiere, and I have no plans to get rid of the roku. I now have a TV, a DVD player and a tivo box that all do netflix streaming. But the roku isn't going away any time soon.


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## Mikeyed

Interesting discussion. I've been thinking about buying the Roku 3 instead of Tivo. It seems to get a good review, at least I found these two that recommend it.

Cnet

Top Gadget Reviews


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## mikeyts

I have 10 devices in use which have Netflix players, 7 of them connected to this LCD panel: PS3, Xbox 360, Sony BDP, 2 Panasonic BDPs, TiVo Premiere, Roku 3, Roku 2 XS, WD TV Live and this PC (1080p and 5.1 sound in the Win8 app). Additionally my Android phone and tablet have player apps (which I never use) and my housemate/landlord watches Netflix and other video streaming on his iPad. There are Netflix players everywhere. None are technically better than the Rokus and none are faster than the Roku 3 (starts from the home menu in 4 seconds and starts streams in 2 or 3 seconds). The Rokus also have totally lag-free response to their RF remotes.

The Roku Netflix "channel" does lack some features that the common, PS3-style UI on most of the other have: "Just for Kids" UI, people search and the "Post-play Experience" (the common UI as implemented on TiVo doesn't have these things either); the tightly integrated search feature in the new Roku system UI makes people search moot, I don't have kids and though I've grown accustomed to the "post-play experience" (automatic play-the-next-TV-episode plus suggestions of similar TV or movies) I didn't like the idea at first and still think that it should be optional.

Rokus are a good buy if what you're interested in is pure video and audio streaming from the Internet. It has some limited capability to play files from USB storage and a few DLNA "channels" that people use to stream media stored on PCs and other servers on their LANs, but there are many much, much better devices for that. Although it does a quite decent job, it's not the best video renderer; no 24p output and RGB color space only. Given that it costs $100 at the high end you can't expect reference level performance.


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## jrtroo

Mikeyed--

You may be missing the point of some of these arguments. Tivo core functionality (DVR) is completely different than a Roku core functionality (streaming). For Tivo, its an add on that works fine for many, but does not have a large amount of apps. No Roku can act as a DVR.


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## mikeyts

Mikeyed said:


> Interesting discussion. I've been thinking about buying the Roku 3 instead of Tivo.


I hear that as "I've been thinking about buying oranges rather than pork tenderloin" . The primary function of a TiVo is to record television video for later playback; Roku boxes don't do that at all.


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## gweempose

jrtroo said:


> Mikeyed--
> 
> You may be missing the point of some of these arguments. Tivo core functionality (DVR) is completely different than a Roku core functionality (streaming). For Tivo, its an add on that works fine for many, but does not have a large amount of apps. No Roku can act as a DVR.


The more that I use streaming services such as Vudu, Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, etc... the more I'm beginning to realize that recording stuff with a DVR is pretty darn old school. I have six TiVos scattered throughout my house, and I'm starting to question if this is even necessary any more.


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## crxssi

gweempose said:


> The more that I use streaming services such as Vudu, Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, etc... the more I'm beginning to realize that recording stuff with a DVR is pretty darn old school.


It might be old school but with recording:

1) I can playback without a network
2) I can playback without the Internet connection working
3) I can playback with *ZERO* artifacts or problems caused by network or server glitches
4) I can zoom forward and backwards absolutely smoothly (plus slo-mo, etc)
5) I get the original bitrate and quality, always, without it changing or adjusting
6) I am not forced to watch anything that I can't skip
7) Doesn't use any bandwidth

You can get a similar effect with the old-fashioned Amazon video transfer. I much prefer that concept to streaming.... it is similar to streaming but with a 100% buffer.


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## scandia101

crxssi said:


> It might be old school but with recording:
> 
> 1) I can playback without a network
> 2) I can playback without the Internet connection working
> 3) I can playback with *ZERO* artifacts or problems caused by network or server glitches
> 4) I can zoom forward and backwards absolutely smoothly (plus slo-mo, etc)
> 5) I get the original bitrate and quality, always, without it changing or adjusting
> 6) I am not forced to watch anything that I can't skip
> 7) Doesn't use any bandwidth
> 
> You can get a similar effect with the old-fashioned Amazon video transfer. I much prefer that concept to streaming.... it is similar to streaming but with a 100% buffer.


and not all content that you can get by recording it on a Tivo is available through streaming sources


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## crxssi

scandia101 said:


> and not all content that you can get by recording it on a Tivo is available through streaming sources


That is true. Of course, so is the reverse.

I wish I lived in a world where I could just download (and watch-while-downloading) any program ever made and my payment was spread between those and voted for what I like to see. No more "cable", no more broadcast, no more limited streaming. Not sure of the revenue model, but that shouldn't be too difficult.


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## aaronwt

Unfortunately that fantasy world will probably never exist.


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## atmuscarella

I think what most people want is:

To be able to find content to watch easily
To watch any content they want to whenever they want to easily
To watch any content they want to wherever (on whatever device) they want to easily
To have the content be of a quality level acceptable to them
To have the cost be acceptable to them
There is no one device or service that does the above and I left out gaming which really should be included in the above list somehow.

If you took a TiVo, Roku, Blu-ray player, & Gaming console and smashed them together you would be close to being able to have "The One Box", but I don't see one "service" ever getting access to all the available content so we will still be stuck with using many services. And of course to have it all work the way it should we would all also need access to very reliable high speed Internet both in our homes and on our mobile devices.

The reality is we will all be using a combination of services and devices for a long time. What I see for stand alone streaming only devices like a Roku is that they will become (stay?) a niche product (like TiVo DVRs) as more TVs, Blu-ray players, Gaming consoles, & hopefully TiVos become "good enough" streaming devices for the masses.


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## tivoknucklehead

I can access Netflix via my two Tivo Premieres, my Directv HR22, my Sony Blu Ray player, my Apple TV, my boxee box and my Roku 3 and the best user experience is the Roku 3


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## aaronwt

tivoknucklehead said:


> I can access Netflix via my two Tivo Premieres, my Directv HR22, my Sony Blu Ray player, my Apple TV, my boxee box and my Roku 3 and the best user experience is the Roku 3


I think my Sony BD player gives me the best experience. The interface is like the Roku 3 one but the Sony BD player will also give me info about the stream. And show what resolution is being streamed. While my ROku 2 and Roku3 boxes do not give me this info.
Plus the Roku2/3 does not have access to the 3D streaming titles. From either Netflix or VUDU. While I get access to them from my Sony S5100 BD players.

Although if I plan on using the supplied remote with each device, then the Roku 2/3 remote is much easier to navigate than the Sony remote.


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## gweempose

For the time being, there is still a place in this world for a good DVR. No doubt about it. The need for such a device, however, is quickly diminishing. If TiVo is going to survive, they better make darn sure their next generation product performs streaming better than the Premiere.


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## gweempose

crxssi said:


> I wish I lived in a world where I could just download (and watch-while-downloading) any program ever made and my payment was spread between those and voted for what I like to see. No more "cable", no more broadcast, no more limited streaming. Not sure of the revenue model, but that shouldn't be too difficult.


This business model already exists in the music world. With services like Rhapsody, you pay one fee and have access to pretty much any song you could possibly want to listen to. This will eventually happen with TV and movies as well, it's just going to take longer to materialize. Bandwidth is obviously an issue for now, but at some point in the future it will no longer be a roadblock. Once this happens, the floodgates will open.


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## moyekj

gweempose said:


> For the time being, there is still a place in this world for a good DVR. No doubt about it. The need for such a device, however, is quickly diminishing. If TiVo is going to survive, they better make darn sure their next generation product performs streaming better than the Premiere.


 It almost certainly will. The Mini runs the Flash HDUI and apps much faster which is a good indication of the difference updated SOCs should make for new hardware. I can't wait to upgrade from my very sluggish Elite to next hardware platform.


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## NYHeel

Sorry, I meant to put this in the Roku thread in the Happy Hour forum. Feel free to disregard.

I'm trying to decide between an Apple TV and a Roku 3 for a streaming solution. Between my wife and I, we have 2 iphones and 2 ipads in our house. Therefore, we could use airplay to make up for the lack of apps on the Apple TV. 

Are there any apps on the Roku that you guys actually use that I couldn't just get on the Apple TV with airplay? I'm trying to figure out what I lose by going with the ATV over Roku. One big thing that I gain is the Watch ESPN app which I use a lot during college basketball season and it isn't available on the Roku but I could watch it on the ATV with airplay.

Also, any loss in ease of use by using airplay for something like HBO Go instead of watching it natively on the Roku?

Thanks for the help.


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## scandia101

crxssi said:


> That is true. Of course, so is the reverse.


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## mikeyts

NYHeel said:


> Are there any apps on the Roku that you guys actually use that I couldn't just get on the Apple TV with airplay?


I use Amazon, VUDU and HBO Go; I know that you could send one or two of these to ATV via Airplay, but not in 1080p w/DD 5.1 sound (I don't believe). Otherwise, with your Apple-centric household I should think that ATV is a no-brainer. I'm not personally a big Apple fan.


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## Bigg

gweempose said:


> For the time being, there is still a place in this world for a good DVR. No doubt about it. The need for such a device, however, is quickly diminishing. If TiVo is going to survive, they better make darn sure their next generation product performs streaming better than the Premiere.


The need for a DVR isn't going anywhere. Some timeshare may be going to other things, but there's still a lot of content that's only on cable.

That being said, I LOVE my Roku 2XS. It's a great little device.


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## lujan

mikeyts said:


> I use Amazon, VUDU and HBO Go; I know that you could send one or two of these to ATV via Airplay, but not in 1080p w/DD 5.1 sound (I don't believe). Otherwise, with your Apple-centric household I should think that ATV is a no-brainer. I'm not personally a big Apple fan.


I also am not a big Apple fan and only only bought the AppleTV to play my limited iTunes movies. If you're a big Vudu fan like me, don't get the AppleTV since it doesn't have the Vudu app on it. Go with the Roku 3 instead.


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## mikeyts

atmuscarella said:


> If you took a TiVo, Roku, Blu-ray player, & Gaming console and smashed them together you would be close to being able to have "The One Box", but I don't see one "service" ever getting access to all the available content so we will still be stuck with using many services.


The upcoming next gen Xbox is going to come close. Recent word is that it will have cable STB and DVR functionality and the 360 already has these streaming media services, which contains the list of things that I use on Roku, with new ones being added from time to time. The only detraction being Netflix needlessly constrained to 720p with no DD+ bitstreaming; they seemed to want to restrict 1080p to their own video rental/purchase stream-or-download service, though they relented and let VUDU sell HDX. The lack of DD+ bitstreaming is probably a limitation of the 360's version of HDMI and perhaps they'll wise up about video resolution restrictions. Of course, if you're into Roku's more esoteric "channels" it won't serve all of your needs. It will also not be cheap, probably launching at around $500. We'll hear more at their May 21st reveal.


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## Bigg

lujan said:


> I also am not a big Apple fan and only only bought the AppleTV to play my limited iTunes movies. If you're a big Vudu fan like me, don't get the AppleTV since it doesn't have the Vudu app on it. Go with the Roku 3 instead.


Get both. The Roku sits nicely on top of the Apple TV. That's what I did, in addition to Blu-Ray, Xbox 360, an HTPC, GCN, Wii, N64, VCR, XL4, and the AVR.


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## slowbiscuit

gweempose said:


> For the time being, there is still a place in this world for a good DVR. No doubt about it. The need for such a device, however, is quickly diminishing. If TiVo is going to survive, they better make darn sure their next generation product performs streaming better than the Premiere.


The problem, as always, is that this mythical streaming-everything future doesn't exist (for business reasons, not technical) and even if it did you'd likely get forced to watch a lot of commercials that you can skip today. Not to mention that shows will come and go at the whim of the provider.

The need for a good DVR (cloud-based and/or local storage) is not going away for a very long time.


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## abqdan

I have both Roku and the less well-known WD TV live box. They both do well, but I don't find I watch the hundreds of 'channels' on Roku. I use both boxes for Hulu, Netflix, Vudu, and Internet radio. On radio stations, the WD TV Live box is far better than Roku, supporting many more formats for Internet Radio sources. For example, I can stream BBC Radio stations on the WD TV, but not on the Roku. The WD TV also supports DLNA, which is a big plus for me - I can use it to stream all my home server media, and to show photos from my server.

Both boxes beat Tivo's apps hands down.


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## abqdan

The only problem I see with Xbox is that Microsoft will still be charging a monthly fee to use it. Since we only use our Xbox to play games at home, not over the net, we don't have a monthly subscription - and that means we can't access Netflix, Hulu etc - even though we have subscriptions to those services, without paying Microsoft an additional $7 a month 'convenience' fee. So Xbox is a great solution if you are an internet gamer, but not otherwise.


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## Beryl

lujan said:


> I also am not a big Apple fan and only only bought the AppleTV to play my limited iTunes movies. If you're a big Vudu fan like me, don't get the AppleTV since it doesn't have the Vudu app on it. Go with the Roku 3 instead.


I recommend getting them both but since you have so many iDevices in your home, your first purchase should be an Apple TV, IMO.

You can Mirror the Vudu from an iDevice on your Apple TV. (Airplay only does audio.) The problem with mirroring is that you can't let it run in background and use your device for other things. Therefore, I agree that if you do a lot of Vudu, and you don't have a iDevice that can be dedicated for an entire movie, you'll want a Roku.

I haven't used anything that is unique to the Roku that can't be AirPlayed or mirrored from an iDevice except Amazon Instant Videos. There are a few obscure Roku channels but you can probably access them via Plex on an iDevice.

Note that there is still no YouTube channel on Rokus. You can quickly find and Airplay YouTube videos from your iDevice if you don't want to navigate Youtube on the ATV. I've done that a lot with company over. Even TiVo and my BR Player doesn't handle YouTube with the ease of my iDevice.


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## aaronwt

abqdan said:


> The only problem I see with Xbox is that Microsoft will still be charging a monthly fee to use it. Since we only use our Xbox to play games at home, not over the net, we don't have a monthly subscription - and that means we can't access Netflix, Hulu etc - even though we have subscriptions to those services, without paying Microsoft an additional $7 a month 'convenience' fee. So Xbox is a great solution if you are an internet gamer, but not otherwise.


It's really more like $3.50 a month. The most I ever paid for a year of Xbox Live Gold was $40 and that was just last week. Prior to that the most I had paid was around $30 but it had typically been much less before they raised the prices. But still $40 a year is a good deal for me since I do use Multiplayer on a few games.


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## mikeyts

abqdan said:


> The only problem I see with Xbox is that Microsoft will still be charging a monthly fee to use it. Since we only use our Xbox to play games at home, not over the net, we don't have a monthly subscription - and that means we can't access Netflix, Hulu etc - even though we have subscriptions to those services, without paying Microsoft an additional $7 a month 'convenience' fee. So Xbox is a great solution if you are an internet gamer, but not otherwise.


I don't think it was ever more than $60/year even if you pay list price. As aaronwt states, you can generally find 12 month Xbox Live Gold membership cards for a lot less (see here).

In any case, I expect that they'll be coming off of that requirement for purposes of streaming as they start pushing media-oriented boxes (you'll still need membership for multiplayer networked gaming). They're supposedly launching a video-disc-drive-less Xbox 360 model codenamed "Stingray" sometime this year to sell for $100, aimed directly at streaming STBs.


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## lujan

Beryl said:


> I recommend getting them both but since you have so many iDevices in your home, your first purchase should be an Apple TV, IMO.
> 
> You can Mirror the Vudu from an iDevice on your Apple TV. (Airplay only does audio.) The problem with mirroring is that you can't let it run in background and use your device for other things. Therefore, I agree that if you do a lot of Vudu, and you don't have a iDevice that can be dedicated for an entire movie, you'll want a Roku.
> 
> ...


I've never been able to use Airplay or home networking with my Apple TV and not even Apple technical support was able to help me correct it. That's why I try and stay away from Apple as much as I can.


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## gweempose

Now that I've experienced Hulu+ on the Roku, as opposed to the horrendous experience on the TiVo, I've grown to really love the service. It's disappointing, however, that they're not using Dolby Digital yet. This is definitely a compelling reason to record shows with the TiVo instead of streaming them.


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## crxssi

gweempose said:


> Now that I've experienced Hulu+ on the Roku, as opposed to the horrendous experience on the TiVo, I've grown to really love the service.


I can't imagine my ever paying for a service that forces me to watch commercials. Ever.


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## Beryl

crxssi said:


> I can't imagine my ever paying for a service that forces me to watch commercials. Ever.


So this.

Not sure why it makes me so mad though. Usually I don't care if a service does something I don't like. I just don't support it. This irritates me for some reason. Maybe it is because they are currently the only game in town.


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## gweempose

crxssi said:


> I can't imagine my ever paying for a service that forces me to watch commercials. Ever.


You know, the commercials really don't bother me on Hulu. They seem much shorter and less intrusive than they are on regular TV.


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## mikeyts

gweempose said:


> You know, the commercials really don't bother me on Hulu. They seem much shorter and less intrusive than they are on regular TV.


Also many of them are advertising charitable causes and not products and services.


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## aaronwt

mikeyts said:


> Also many of them are advertising charitable causes and not products and services.


It's still an advertisement. I don't care what the content is, it's still an advertisement. But for me personally I don't typically mind the commercials on Hulu+ as long as they are short. The 30 second commercials are fine. But the 60 second commercials are too long. Either way I still use Hulu+. Just not as much as I would like. I get a better value from for my $8 a month from streaming services I use from Netflix and Funimation.


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## mikeyts

aaronwt said:


> It's still an advertisement. I don't care what the content is, it's still an advertisement.


Somehow I'm less offended by an ad for a national literacy campaign than one for dishwashing liquid, but maybe that's just me .


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## Beryl

mikeyts said:


> Somehow I'm less offended by an ad for a national literacy campaign than one for dishwashing liquid, but maybe that's just me .


I agree with that but I can tolerate 10-15 second ads FREE Crackle shows.

I they MUST show ads on Hulu+, they could just put up a scrolling ad every 15 minutes and call it a day. Otherwise, load Hulu.com (free) ads up and get rid of all ads on Plus.


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## innocentfreak

abqdan said:


> The only problem I see with Xbox is that Microsoft will still be charging a monthly fee to use it. Since we only use our Xbox to play games at home, not over the net, we don't have a monthly subscription - and that means we can't access Netflix, Hulu etc - even though we have subscriptions to those services, without paying Microsoft an additional $7 a month 'convenience' fee. So Xbox is a great solution if you are an internet gamer, but not otherwise.


This is why I don't use the Xbox anymore. I also hate you can't sync their media remote so it only uses IR which has always been an issue for me with the 360 since it isn't in direct line of site from the couch.

Hopefully with the next Xbox they will at least be smart enough to make a Media Remote that has RF or BT.


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## lujan

aaronwt said:


> It's still an advertisement. I don't care what the content is, it's still an advertisement. But for me personally I don't typically mind the commercials on Hulu+ as long as they are short. The 30 second commercials are fine. But the 60 second commercials are too long. Either way I still use Hulu+. Just not as much as I would like. I get a better value from for my $8 a month from streaming services I use from Netflix and Funimation.


I skip through the Hulu commercials just like I do the regular TV commercials.


----------



## mikeyts

lujan said:


> I skip through the Hulu commercials just like I do the regular TV commercials.


How? AFAICT there's no way to do it in the embedded players.


----------



## crxssi

mikeyts said:


> Somehow I'm less offended by an ad for a national literacy campaign than one for dishwashing liquid, but maybe that's just me .


To me it makes no difference what the ad is. Blech


----------



## Beryl

mikeyts said:


> How? AFAICT there's no way to do it in the embedded players.


I was wondering if it was a Plus feature because I couldn't see how to do it with the "free" Hulu.


----------



## aadam101

Bigg said:


> The need for a DVR isn't going anywhere.


For how long? At some point it's going to go away. We are seeing a LOT of new web series this year and there will most certainly be more to come. At some point, shows won't even try to get picked up by networks. They will just shop them directly to the streaming companies.

Just in the last month alone three high profile web series have started, Hemlock Grove, All My Children and One Life to Live. Later in the month comes Arrested Development which is SURE to be a huge hit.

NBC is in the toilet and the other broadcast networks aren't far behind. The need for DVR gets smaller and smaller each day.


----------



## mikeyts

aadam101 said:


> Later in the month comes Arrested Development which is SURE to be a huge hit.


It went away because it didn't garner ratings which justified Fox continuing to offer it. Has something changed?

Netflix might not need for it to be watched by as many people as Fox needed it to be for carriage to be profitable.


----------



## mikeyts

Beryl said:


> I was wondering if it was a Plus feature because I couldn't see how to do it with the "free" Hulu.


After I posted that I went and checked whether I could skip ads on my Roku 3 and it did not respond to the FF or LEFT remote buttons during ads. Perhaps he meant that he skips them by getting up and doing something else while they run?

EDIT: Also attempted in the Hulu Plus players on TiVo and WD TV Live--no dice.


----------



## tenthplanet

aadam101 said:


> For how long? At some point it's going to go away. We are seeing a LOT of new web series this year and there will most certainly be more to come. At some point, shows won't even try to get picked up by networks. They will just shop them directly to the streaming companies.
> 
> Just in the last month alone three high profile web series have started, Hemlock Grove, All My Children and One Life to Live. Later in the month comes Arrested Development which is SURE to be a huge hit.
> 
> NBC is in the toilet and the other broadcast networks aren't far behind. The need for DVR gets smaller and smaller each day.


 Cheap internet is not a given and caps will become a way of life. Most of the broadcast networks own or are owned by companies with cable interests.
Streaming is expensive. You will a need a DVR long after streaming has gone down a financial sink hole.


----------



## zentsang

scoobydooby said:


> My house is full of Roku units - including a Streaming Stick in my LG. They are wife approved, and that is all that matters here. Yes, my LG has "smart" features, so does my BD player, PS3 and even my Google TV box - but none of them are as good as Roku.
> 
> The ability to set up accounts on the web makes them a whole lot easier to use than most smart devices.


Ha! I'm with you on this. As I always say "Happy wife ... Happy life!" 

Like you, although I have SmartTVs, a Playstation 3, an Xbox 360, and a Blu-Ray player with "Smart" features ... my wife just finds all of them slow, frustrating and overly complicated. She also has no desire to touch a gaming console just to watch streaming videos. For her... those devices just don't compare to the speed and friendly user interfaces of the Roku and TiVo Premiere devices.

I even broke down and just won an Ebay auction for the fancy TiVo Slide remote with the QWERTY keyboard and the back lit buttons... which I was able to program to also control the Hitachi sound bar. So she is in heaven.

Just thought I'd share. =)


----------



## gweempose

mikeyts said:


> It went away because it didn't garner ratings which justified Fox continuing to offer it. Has something changed?


The entire television landscape has changed. It's a much different world now than when AD went off the air.


----------



## atmuscarella

gweempose said:


> The entire television landscape has changed. It's a much different world now than when AD went off the air.


Well I am not sold that the "entire television landscape has changed". For Fox (or any of the other traditional Networks) the math on if a show is profitable enough for them is pretty straight forward. Not so much for Netflix. Frankly I don't know if it is even possible for Netflix to be able to figure out how many subs any one show added or retained. But at this point in Netflix's business model the show could be a success for Netflix even if it doesn't generate enough new or retain enough existing subs to pay for itself, just the buzz around Netflix producing it has marketing value.


----------



## mikeyts

atmuscarella said:


> Frankly I don't know if it is even possible for Netflix to be able to figure out how many subs any one show added or retained.


They can tell exactly how many subs who are new the month that the show was added watch it. They can never be certain that the addition of the show encouraged the creation of those accounts. No doubt they have some way of estimating.


----------



## mattack

mikeyts said:


> Somehow I'm less offended by an ad for a national literacy campaign than one for dishwashing liquid, but maybe that's just me .


I can mostly seriously argue the opposite. A dishwashing liquid commercial is obviously trying to sell me something I might not already have. Why would someone be so dumb as to not ALREADY be literate, and pay attention to a commercial for it?



mikeyts said:


> It went away because it didn't garner ratings which justified Fox continuing to offer it. Has something changed?
> 
> Netflix might not need for it to be watched by as many people as Fox needed it to be for carriage to be profitable.


Lamborghinis sell many fewer than Toyotas. Should we get rid of Lambos?


----------



## mikeyts

mattack said:


> Lamborghinis sell many fewer than Toyotas. Should we get rid of Lambos?


I was questioning how SURE the series is to be a hit. What constitutes a "hit" for a Netflix produced series?


----------



## CAAvidTivoUser

I had been on the fence for a while about Roku. From a performance stand point, you can't beat it. But I like to watch the local news and none in my area is being streamed. But then again, they are so inexpensive via craigslist.


----------



## scandia101

mattack said:


> Lamborghinis sell many fewer than Toyotas. Should we get rid of Lambos?


----------



## mikeyts

scandia101 said:


>


I understood him--his point was "just because a show is not popular doesn't mean that it's not excellent". The analogy is somewhat strained. The reasons why large numbers of Lamborghinis aren't sold are quite distinctly different from why a television show doesn't garner or retain a large audience.

My landlord and former housemate decided that he needed a career change from peddling Gucci bling and found a job as a Lamborghini rep which he held for several months until sales went totally flat and he couldn't afford to continue working there (he's peddling Prada bling now ). He parked Gallordos here from time to time when he was assigned to bring one to an early morning event. They're pretty amazing machines but also quite delicate.


----------



## magnus

compnurd said:


> My Premiere is good at being a DVR


And I remember it being billed as the "one box".


----------



## mattack

mikeyts said:


> I understood him--his point was "just because a show is not popular doesn't mean that it's not excellent".


No, just that something with a smaller audience/market share can still be profitable/worthwhile.


----------



## mikeyts

mattack said:


> No, just that something with a smaller audience/market share can still be profitable/worthwhile.


That's obviously true; nothing on TNT or TBS or A&E, etc is going to get anything close to the audience which programming has to earn on a national broadcast network to avoid cancellation. But those channels all get a piece of your cable/satellite service provider's fees as well as money from ads. I suppose that Netflix is a similar situation.


----------



## abqdan

I have HuluPlus and can't find a way to FF through the ads. In fact, HuluPlus will 'forget' where you were in a show if you leave it then come back later, and then you have to watch a set of ads before you can even reposition in the show. At least Netflix remembers where you got to in a show and lets you resume playback. Wonder why HuluPlus can't do that?


----------



## aaronwt

abqdan said:


> I have HuluPlus and can't find a way to FF through the ads. In fact, HuluPlus will 'forget' where you were in a show if you leave it then come back later, and then you have to watch a set of ads before you can even reposition in the show. At least Netflix remembers where you got to in a show and lets you resume playback. Wonder why HuluPlus can't do that?


For me, Hulu+ remembers where I left off on a show. I can be in the middle of watching a show, turn off Hulu, and come back to it a week later. When I start Hulu+ the first thing it asks me is if I want to continue watching that show. And when I select it, it starts off where I was last watching. It does this from any of the devices I use to watch Hulu+ with.


----------



## mikeyts

abqdan said:


> I have HuluPlus and can't find a way to FF through the ads.


There is none, though once you watch the first ad you can FF to any point in the show.


----------



## gweempose

aaronwt said:


> For me, Hulu+ remembers where I left off on a show. I can be in the middle of watching a show, turn off Hulu, and come back to it a week later. When I start Hulu+ the first thing it asks me is if I want to continue watching that show. And when I select it, it starts off where I was last watching. It does this from any of the devices I use to watch Hulu+ with.


When I'm watching Hulu+ on the TiVo, I find that sometimes it remembers where I left off, and other times it doesn't. I think it may have to do with how you exit the application.


----------



## celtic pride

It would be interesting to see if shows that were turned down by the networks for the new fall season ,find there way to the internet like netflix or huluplus,for example a new tv series was being shopped by eddie murphy beverly hills cop,and i believe john legazamo was trying to sell a new comedy sitcom that wasnt picked up.Maybe some of these internet sites might want to give these series a chance if they can keep the cost reasonable.You never know it might be worth a try,especially if the show turns out to be a success!


----------



## mikeyts

Amazon has this "Original Pilots" thing going where you can watch pilots of prospective series and vote for the ones that you'd like them to make available. They seem to only have children's programming and comedies.


----------



## gweempose

celtic pride said:


> It would be interesting to see if shows that were turned down by the networks for the new fall season ,find there way to the internet like netflix or huluplus ...


That's kind of what I was getting at when I said the television landscape had changed. For example, there is no way a show with such a rabid fan base like Firefly would only have 15 episodes these days. It still would probably be dropped by the network due to low ratings, but it's almost a certainty that somebody would pick it up.


----------



## gweempose

mikeyts said:


> Amazon has this "Original Pilots" thing going where you can watch pilots of prospective series and vote for the ones that you'd like them to make available. They seem to only have children's programming and comedies.


I enjoyed "Dark Minions" and hope it gets picked up.


----------



## aaronwt

gweempose said:


> I enjoyed "Dark Minions" and hope it gets picked up.


I haven't checked that one out yet. But I really liked Alpha House and Onion News Empire. I also liked Zombie Land but not as much as the other two.


----------



## slowbiscuit

gweempose said:


> When I'm watching Hulu+ on the TiVo, I find that sometimes it remembers where I left off, and other times it doesn't. I think it may have to do with how you exit the application.


Same as the Tivo itself - it usually remembers where you were in a recording, but sometimes it doesn't.


----------



## AwardBlvr

crxssi said:


> It might be old school but with recording:
> 
> 1) I can playback without a network
> 2) I can playback without the Internet connection working
> 3) I can playback with *ZERO* artifacts or problems caused by network or server glitches
> 4) I can zoom forward and backwards absolutely smoothly (plus slo-mo, etc)
> 5) I get the original bitrate and quality, always, without it changing or adjusting
> 6) I am not forced to watch anything that I can't skip
> 7) Doesn't use any bandwidth
> 
> You can get a similar effect with the old-fashioned Amazon video transfer. I much prefer that concept to streaming.... it is similar to streaming but with a 100% buffer.


Things I dislike about TiVo (and things which are making me consider switching.). (SF Bay Area Comcast victim, Lifetime TiVo owner, more than 14 years)

1) TiVo's schedule NOT maintained accurately. (Last year it did not have SF Giants in playoffs listed on several days.) And many "specials" never get listed.
2) Comcast is charging $75 + tax for "Digital Starter" package, just so I can watch HD TV Local network stations, CNN, Discovery channel.
3) Inconsistencies between TiVo's list of available channels and what I am able actually to get via Comcast cable-card.
4) Very long boot-up times.

SO... Thinking of cutting the cord. Thinking of Roku and something like Simple TV. What else can i use to watch over-the-air programs in HD?

Anyone else having success in eliminating $75 (or more) monthly bill?

Priorities are: Local News at night started 15 minutes after news begins to skip ads and house-fire stories. Local CBS affiliate broadcast shows (Survivor, AFV, American Idol and The Voice) along with Discover Channel and CNN.


----------



## mr_smits

I cut the cord and still use Tivo for recording local stations, Netflix streaming, and Amazon video downloads/rentals. I considered SimpleTV, but I have a few lifetime Tivo boxes that I can still use for now.


----------



## Beryl

You may be VERY disappointed with SimpleTV. My niece tried it and even a bought lifetime subscription. After over 30 contacts with the developers, she gave up and returned it all. It is very, very buggy and has little support.

Playon (different concept) is buggy too but a lower investment. It works fairly well on Rokus though.


----------



## mattack

AwardBlvr said:


> Things I dislike about TiVo (and things which are making me consider switching.). (SF Bay Area Comcast victim, Lifetime TiVo owner, more than 14 years)
> 
> 1) TiVo's schedule NOT maintained accurately. (Last year it did not have SF Giants in playoffs listed on several days.) And many "specials" never get listed.
> 2) Comcast is charging $75 + tax for "Digital Starter" package, just so I can watch HD TV Local network stations, CNN, Discovery channel.
> 3) Inconsistencies between TiVo's list of available channels and what I am able actually to get via Comcast cable-card.
> 4) Very long boot-up times.
> 
> SO... Thinking of cutting the cord. Thinking of Roku and something like Simple TV. What else can i use to watch over-the-air programs in HD?
> 
> Anyone else having success in eliminating $75 (or more) monthly bill?


#2 definitely not Tivo. Where specifically do you live? The lineup is correct for me in the SF Bay Area.

I'm currently on a deal for Internet + one of the lower (but not the absolute lowest, IIRC) digital packages + streampix for about $79/month.

#4 is not true anymore. Premiere 4 boots *fairly quickly*. Not as fast as a series 1, but a zillion times faster than a OLED S3 (glacial) and a TivoHD (ridiculously slow).


----------



## tenthplanet

crxssi said:


> That is true. Of course, so is the reverse.
> 
> I wish I lived in a world where I could just download (and watch-while-downloading) any program ever made and my payment was spread between those and voted for what I like to see. No more "cable", no more broadcast, no more limited streaming. Not sure of the revenue model, but that shouldn't be too difficult.


 The revenue model will be advertisements.


----------



## crxssi

tenthplanet said:


> The revenue model will be advertisements.


And as long as I can skip them, I am OK with that. But I will not pay for ANY content (nor will I watch anything) that forces me to watch ANYTHING (commercials, warnings, public service announcements, upcoming crap, etc).

As I said, I would be willing to pay for such a service, but I don't want it to be live streaming, unless I can stream to a 100% buffer, like the old Amazon video rental model.


----------



## slowbiscuit

Agreed 100% - can't skip around whenever I want (either saved recording or streaming), not interested.

This is one big reason why they want to move stuff into the cloud, so they can control how and when you watch it.


----------



## b_scott

unfortunately with ala carte IPTV on the horizon, and many people already only using internet streaming like Hulu, Netflix, Amazon - Tivo is going to have to keep up or when Cable the dinosaur starts dropping off, they're going to be left holding the bag.

Cable isn't going to get a larger share, ever. It's only going down.


----------



## atmuscarella

b_scott said:


> unfortunately with ala carte IPTV on the horizon, and many people already only using internet streaming like Hulu, Netflix, Amazon - Tivo is going to have to keep up or when Cable the dinosaur starts dropping off, they're going to be left holding the bag.
> 
> Cable isn't going to get a larger share, ever. It's only going down.


I am all for ala carte IPTV, *IF* it every shows up there are a few cable channels I might pay for if the price were reasonable and no reason TiVo couldn't provide a DVR capable of being an IPTV client.

However I don't see anything on the horizon that would lead me to believe this is happening anytime soon. What is worse I don't see anything coming that provides the equivalent of what we have now with a good DVR and cable/satellite programing. Sure it is easy enough to "cut the cord" if you are willing to live with content restrictions, lower quality video, high ala carte costs, and/or being forced into watching commercials. I am OTA and free streaming only and have no issues with it but I live alone and don't care about sports. I do not think many families would be happy with it if they have been used to cable/satellite.

PS: The only people I know paying for Netflix and Amzon streaming also have cable or satellite.

PS-PS: And while I agree that cable subs appear to be off I am not sure that "pay TV" (which include cable, satellite, & IPTV providers) subs are actually down. It will be interesting to see what happens to "pay TV" subs if the economy every really rebounds.


----------



## Hi8

I owned streaming devices , still do. I have 2 WD Live boxes which I really like the NetFlix app on... Still not as good a an HTPC connection .

I wanted another solution for TV viewing in our Florida home, had Dish for 2 years dropped it because of cost. I'm going to look into OTA but I'm at the fringe distance for the big 4 networks using an inside OTA antenna. So I may go the outside antenna and see what I can pickup.

The Roku was going to backfill what I can't get OTA, but I'm really disappointed in the quality of the HD on some of the content channels. Hate the drill down navigation to get to anything. It seems like everything is about 4 layers deep to actually get to where you are watching something. Then if you don't like it, it's like you have to start from scratch. It's a far cry from a channel searching mode.

My perfect solution so far is ... and haven't got it totally setup yet. But I hoping to put (2) of my S3 OLEDs in Florida setup on OTA. Record everything I can in uncompressed HD (TheBEST!). Then I shuttle my .tivo recordings from our CT home's TiVo via the internet using BTSync - replicating the My TiVo Recordings folder down to Florida. Where I've got TiVo Desktop (PyTiVo, kmttg) setup on a PC. I should be able to transfer those shows to my S3s. The only hangup is the protected content HBO & SHOtime recordings.

So far it's working pretty well I have xFinity broadband in both houses, and it seems to keep things pretty much populated with the daily TV content we watch. Moving the files was the big hurdle, with that behind me, I just have to get my S3 setup.

Roku / WD Live devices are nice to a point and in concept. But Until the dead end videos that don't play or have been abandoned without removing the listing... it's a frustrating interface.

It's almost as bad as the OnDemand Comcast interface that TiVo has inplace.. some content works fine some is missing or is bad quality or stutters.. etc..

I've got my fingersX for https://aereo.com/ I just wish it was in my area so I could check it out.


----------



## abqdan

atmuscarella said:


> PS: The only people I know paying for Netflix and Amzon streaming also have cable or satellite.


I am OTA, and enjoy uncompressed HD broadcasts - better than any cable/satellite can offer. Mostly, we watch the big 4 on OTA, plus a lot of PBS programming. We added Netflix and HuluPlus, which together cover most, if not all the series we'd ever watch from TV, just a season or two behind the time they air. We're not impatient; we can wait. I'm currently enjoying West Wing!

Tivo takes care of OTA recording, though we wish we could have more tuners - the current limit of 2 is frustrating some nights. Our Sony TVs have internet support, so we can watch Hulu and Netflix direct on those; no need for the crappy apps on Tivo. Then we also have WD TV Live for one room to stream other content, and DLNA support to access our server content (music, photos, video) plus providing Pandora. For the main bedroom, we just have Roku 3, which beefs up bedroom TV to be able to receive Netflix and Hulu. The really nice thing about Netflix streaming is that you can stop it in one room, then pick up the same show in another room.

I'm sure there are shows that some people have to have, and our set up wouldn't work for them. But we were spending $150 a month on cable that we mostly didn't watch; now we spend $18 for Netflix and Hulu. That's a big win for us.

Tivo is still our DVR of choice for recording OTA broadcasts; but we don't use any apps on it, other than Pandora; it just isn't reliable enough.


----------



## mikeyts

abqdan said:


> I am OTA, and enjoy uncompressed HD broadcasts - better than any cable/satellite can offer.


First off, you're unlikely to ever see "uncompressed HD" video of any kind. OTA broadcast are MPEG-2 constrained to a maximum of 19.39 Mbps and will practically never exceed about an 18 Mbps average; an uncompressed 24-bit 1080i30 raster would be about 1.5 Gbps.

Secondly, many cable systems don't touch the signal they get from local broadcasters, other than to omit ATSC NULL packets, PSIP and other chaff (if they get the signal OTA and not in pre-broadcast form); I've recorded the same program simultaneously OTA and off cable on my TiVo and compared the file sizes, which were only slightly different.

So you may say that you're enjoying "un-re-compressed HD broadcasts", better than any cable/satellite offering _available to you_ .


----------



## Gavroche

All video streaming services on TiVo suck except Comcast On Demand which uses up a tuner, so that sucks too. It all sucks. It's never worked right... and probably never will. TiVo should be ashamed of themselves for trying to market these devices as "the one box" when they know damned well the streaming capabilities are worth jack sh** when compared to Roku or other over-the-top devices out there.

I'm not even sure why this is worth the discussion, because everyone that owns a TiVo knows this.


----------



## aaronwt

Gavroche said:


> All video streaming services on TiVo suck except Comcast On Demand which uses up a tuner, so that sucks too. It all sucks. It's never worked right... and probably never will. TiVo should be ashamed of themselves for trying to market these devices as "the one box" when they know damned well the streaming capabilities are worth jack sh** when compared to Roku or other over-the-top devices out there.
> 
> I'm not even sure why this is worth the discussion, because everyone that owns a TiVo knows this.


I do know that a TiVo is the way to get the best quality from Amazon. Amazon streaming is only 720P. While Amazon downloaded content can be in 1080P. Any content I purchase from Amazon, like TV episodes, a TiVo Premiere is my first choice to watch it on. Since the TV shows I've watched from Amazon are typically in 1080P24. While if I stream them from another device it's only in 720P.


----------



## nooneuknow

aaronwt said:


> I do know that a TiVo is the way to get the best quality from Amazon. Amazon streaming is only 720P. While Amazon downloaded content can be in 1080P. Any content I purchase from Amazon, like TV episodes, a TiVo Premiere is my first choice to watch it on. Since the TV shows I've watched from Amazon are typically in 1080P24. While if I stream them from another device it's only in 720P.


My opinion is that the WD TV Live products provide the best experience. They use the provider standardized UIs for streaming and downloading programming, are much faster to navigate, remote response is great, quality is only limited to what is streamed or available to download, and if it happens to start having any issues, you can reboot one in about a minute.

When doing such things with a TiVo, many end up with the unit rebooting itself, while it is recording. If you want to manually reboot the WD TV products, they aren't DVRs, so you can do it whenever you want.

They are also fully HDMI 1.4 spec, while TiVos are only early 1.3 spec. You can do 3D on them as well.


----------



## aaronwt

nooneuknow said:


> My opinion is that the WD TV Live products provide the best experience. They use the provider standardized UIs for streaming and downloading programming, are much faster to navigate, remote response is great, quality is only limited to what is streamed or available to download, and if it happens to start having any issues, you can reboot one in about a minute.
> 
> When doing such things with a TiVo, many end up with the unit rebooting itself, while it is recording. If you want to manually reboot the WD TV products, they aren't DVRs, so you can do it whenever you want.
> 
> They are also fully HDMI 1.4 spec, while TiVos are only early 1.3 spec. You can do 3D on them as well.


I can't say that I've run into the TiVo rebooting from using Amazon. I go online to purchase the TV episode and select the TiVo I want to download it to. Usually it starts downloading within a few minutes and I can start watching it. I don't know how it is purchasing the content through the TiVo itself since I have not done that in a while. At least not with paid content.

I've never tried the WD TV products but my brother uses one of them and has been pleased with it.
So they can download and stream from Amazon? If so then that is the best of both worlds for Amazon. I'm hoping the S5 TiVos will have that capability.

For streaming Amazon content my Roku boxes do the best job with that. At least from my selection of streaming devices. So that is what I typically use when watching the streaming Amazon content or Amazon content that is only in 720P.


----------



## atmuscarella

Gavroche said:


> All video streaming services on TiVo suck except Comcast On Demand which uses up a tuner, so that sucks too. It all sucks. It's never worked right... and probably never will. TiVo should be ashamed of themselves for trying to market these devices as "the one box" when they know damned well the streaming capabilities are worth jack sh** when compared to Roku or other over-the-top devices out there.
> 
> I'm not even sure why this is worth the discussion, because everyone that owns a TiVo knows this.


Pandora is fine and works as well on TiVo as it does on any other device I have that has Pandora on it. Of the other Streaming services I have only tried Hulu+ and found it lacking.

However what TiVo has that none of my other streaming devices has is a way to automate the download of many podcasts you have to stream on other devices and also the ability to download Amazon rented videos. Which I find to be a very big plus.


----------



## nooneuknow

aaronwt said:


> I can't say that I've run into the TiVo rebooting from using Amazon. I go online to purchase the TV episode and select the TiVo I want to download it to. Usually it starts downloading within a few minutes and I can start watching it. I don't know how it is purchasing the content through the TiVo itself since I have not done that in a while. At least not with paid content.
> 
> I've never tried the WD TV products but my brother uses one of them and has been pleased with it.
> So they can download and stream from Amazon? If so then that is the best of both worlds for Amazon. I'm hoping the S5 TiVos will have that capability.
> 
> For streaming Amazon content my Roku boxes do the best job with that. At least from my selection of streaming devices. So that is what I typically use when watching the streaming Amazon content or Amazon content that is only in 720P.


All the WD TV line can stream. The WD TV Live can have multiple USB drives (flash or hard drive) attached, for storage and NAS. The WD TV Live Hub is the best of the line, with multiple internal sized notebook drives to choose from, which can also be used for purchased downloads and NAS purposes. You can also add multiple additional USB drives to it as well.

I have the Hubs in 1TB size. I have my Mom using one to backup her laptop to. Honestly, I can't find any fault with them. They will play virtually any file format your can throw at them, and WD releases updates every 1-2 months, adding new features, and addressing any bugs/issues very quickly. They also all support DLNA, so you can sling things around (as well as having a slingplayer app built-in).

If it could be a DVR, The WDTV Live Hub (now available in 2TB) would be my "one box".

If The RoKu 2 XS or RoKu 3, the WD Live Hub, and a TiVo were blended together, with the best elements of each, there would be a true "one box", unless you absolutely need a PlayStation too...


----------



## slowbiscuit

atmuscarella said:


> Pandora is fine and works as well on TiVo as it does on any other device I have that has Pandora on it. Of the other Streaming services I have only tried Hulu+ and found it lacking.
> 
> However what TiVo has that none of my other streaming devices has is a way to automate the download of many podcasts you have to stream on other devices and also the ability to download Amazon rented videos. Which I find to be a very big plus.


Both of these features are great and I use them all the time as well (Pandora and podcasts that is). I only wish YouTube worked as well, but it's just so dog slow and painful to navigate. Hopefully the S5s will make all the apps worth using.


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## Beryl

aaronwt said:


> So they can download and stream from Amazon? If so then that is the best of both worlds for Amazon. I'm hoping the S5 TiVos will have that capability.
> 
> For streaming Amazon content my Roku boxes do the best job with that. At least from my selection of streaming devices. So that is what I typically use when watching the streaming Amazon content or Amazon content that is only in 720P.


As of the latest firmware, the WD TV Live does NOT stream Amazon videos. It supports a lot of "services" (channels) but that is not one of them. It doesn't come close to the Roku in the number of supported channels. What it does stream, it streams more elegantly, IMO. After the elegant streaming, it often takes a long time to change services. It is faster to just unplug the box and let it restart!

I like the WD TV Live most for its Slingplayer support. It is the best developed Slingplayer app I've used in 8 years of using Slingboxes.


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## scandia101

Gavroche said:


> All *video* streaming services on TiVo suck





atmuscarella said:


> Pandora is fine and works as well on TiVo as it does on any other device


Pandora isn't a video streaming service.


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## stack

I have heard nothing but good things about the Roku, they are really picking up some momentum in the streaming space.


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