# I did it..TiVo no more



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

It's been a good run with TiVo and I've enjoyed these devices for many years, but I decided it's over. 

I started with a series 2 single tuner unit many years ago and eventually grew to having several units in the house, all series 2's with 1 or two tuners and MRV. I must say for my family that was the golden era of TiVo. Plenty of capacity, shows in every room, and the ability to pull shows from a server if we had a DVD rip. 

Slowly though TiVo became less of a value, it's quality declined, it became less reliable, and functionality literally vanished. I never bought into lifetime service, sure I'd probably have made my money back in savings...maybe, but also being in the golden era of TiVo it meant that things were changing fast. I tuner, became 2, then the series 3, HD, and premeire, all in a relatively short time span. If I had bought into lifetime service I wouldn't have fared much better IMO. During these years HD TVs came out and the series 2 units looked absolutely awful on them. The solution was a newer, more expensive, HD unit. These were good at upconverting the SD content to the HD screen so that even if didn't have HD shows, the picture was good enough. We even tried cable card for a while, but many times we'd leave for the weekend or go on vacation only to return to an empty TiVo since the tuning adapter failed two hours after we left home. With no one to restart it, the TiVo recorded static...i.e. nothing at all. Then about two years ago when all we had was one HD unit and one Premiere MRV stopped working for SD content. One wouldn't see the other. Months went by and TiVo couldn't fix the issue. New network equipment, wiring the TiVo's into the network, nothing seemed to work. Without MRV (something not available at all to us with our older equipment for HD) we were back to streaming Netflix or Amazon. These TiVo's were so incredibly slow at it, or the interface not updated in years were or no value at all. 

So, having a terrible picture because of lack of reliable HD recording, no possibility of MRV with HD, and a monthly cost equal to or more than streaming subscriptions we decided to cancel. It's been 6 months since we've even looked at the TiVo, relying instead on a PS4, 2nd Gen Apple TV, Chromecast, and a Smartcast TV and we haven't missed TiVo at all. Now with all that savings we've decided to pay for content rather than a weekly text file with show times. We are getting HBO Now. I think it's a good trade...and cheaper too.


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

I wish you the best in your decision. Although I am personally very sour on the current Bad Rovi mess and unreliability, for me, the dissatisfaction only started last October. I have had TiVos for as long as you have (starting with the Series 2), and I saw absolutely none of the things that you complained so vividly about (yes, the S2 video DID look like crap on the new HDTVs, but that was just new technology, not something to blame TiVo for). My multiple TiVos have always worked just fine together in my house - never losing any MRV capability that I can recall until the Bad Rovi mess that started in January.

All of my boxes have been Lifetime subs, and even if they had not saved me lots of $$ over the years, I am certain that just feeling like I could continue using them forever for free played a large part in keeping me very satisfied. But that was secondary to the fact that they always just WORKED, and worked far better than any of the alternatives I looked at or used over the past 17 years or so.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

It's interesting to note that when I canceled service on the Series 3 HD model the TiVo rep said I would not be able to renew service on that should I change my mind. I think that in itself is the main reason my two units weren't talking, the HD unit isn't being supported any longer and an update to the premiere killed MRV for a long time. It may have come back in the last 6 months, I just haven't bothered to check. As for the unreliability of the tuning adapter, I'm very surprised you haven't had any issues with that. The board was lit up with complaints about the TA's and them having to be constantly reset.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Bummer, but understandable given it sounds like you may not have advanced your TiVo tech beyond the earlier 2-tuner Premiere model. And TiVo hasn't ever been for the truly budget conscious, though Lifetime/All-In (enabling a stronger resale price) would typically be the first, seemingly contradictory, step on that path.

USA Today: Why I broke up with TiVo after so many years

That said, even with the latest TiVo gear, TiVo's future in our home remains uncertain... owing to being tied to ever more costly cable service, falling short on Internet streaming app integration, failure to deliver a personalized experience, unreliable mobile streaming, etc. It seems the challenges for TiVo are mounting at a time when they're struggling to deliver the most basic of DVR functionality... accurate, useful guide data.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Stormspace said:


> As for the unreliability of the tuning adapter, I'm very surprised you haven't had any issues with that. The board was lit up with complaints about the TA's and them having to be constantly reset.


Blessedly, not everyone is cursed with a tuning adapter.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

krkaufman said:


> ... It seems the challenges for TiVo are mounting at a time when they're struggling to deliver the most basic of DVR functionality... accurate, useful guide data.


Without lifetime service it astounds me that TiVo can charge a monthly fee for guide data that could be used to pay for actual on demand content. 14.99 a month (current price, not what I was paying) is the same as an HBO subscription via Amazon, a 4 stream HD sub to Netflix, or any number of streaming services that only require a simple device to access, a device without a monthly fee.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Stormspace said:


> Without lifetime service it astounds me that TiVo can charge a monthly fee for guide data that could be used to pay for actual on demand content. 14.99 a month (current price, not what I was paying) is the same as an HBO subscription via Amazon, a 4 stream HD sub to Netflix, or any number of streaming services that only require a simple device to access, a device without a monthly fee.


But none of those devices, up until recently, provided the simple access to TV content that TiVo has for years. With OnePass, TiVo stood a chance of providing value in an increasingly streamy world, but it's beginning to look like the challenge was beyond their ability to deliver.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

krkaufman said:


> But none of those devices, up until recently, provided the simple access to TV content that TiVo has for years. With OnePass, TiVo stood a chance of providing value in an increasingly streamy world, but it's beginning to look like the challenge was beyond their ability to deliver.


PSVue would be a good choice for me and only cost a fraction more than what I was paying TiVo, but I still have TWC Starter cable. To get rid of that would break the "bundle" and reality would unravel. Frankly I think keeping me with starter cable makes TWC more money from the content providers than they get from me just by being able to count me as a viewer. I'll keep the premiere as a channel switcher as long as it isn't too naggy about the missing sub since it's connected to a monitor, but again we just don't watch TV that way anymore. The HD unit is done, once whatever recorded on it has been watched (if we ever get around to it) It's going in a closet.


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

I think Lifetime service is far more important to TiVo's success than they seem to realize. For the most part, they seem to act like it was just a money-looser for them, but a necessary evil to hold onto the cheapest among us. But I see it differently; it made a dedicated user base that hung in there, even through the occasional bumps like tortoise-level performance from the Premier boxes. And if you did decide to take a break and try something different, it costs you nothing at all to come back - just bring out the old Lifetime box from the closet and hook it up again. Of course, this whole idea only applies if the current company actually WANTS to keep selling retail service (something that is in doubt).

Take today's situation, for example: If I was paying for monthly service in the current Bad Rovi mess, I would have cancelled ALL my TiVo service by now - what they are delivering is just not worth the cost. But since I have three lifetime boxes in the house, I continue to hang in there, hoping it will get better - after all, it is not costing me anything but anger at the moment. If they do eventually make things better before I leave out of anger, then we both win - they will have kept a long-time customer, and I will again have a great product to use. In contrast, if I had only monthly service now and canceled it, I can absolutely guarantee I would never be back.

The constantly rising price of Lifetime service I think has hurt us all, and especially the company. It has gotten so bad that unless you pop for the whole huge price up front, it never again makes sense to throw away such large amounts of money after you have already gone down the monthly path. A much wiser choice for them would be to have something like an "EARNED LIFETIME" service, were your older box is automatically transferred to lifetime status after you have continued to pay the monthly fee for long enough. For example, if the cost of normal Lifetime service is = 4 years of monthly fees, then give the poor long-suffering customer a break after the 6th or 7th year and reward their loyalty with Lifetime on that box. Not only would that generate good will out the wazoo, but I'd bet a lot of those customers would consider using that new monthly saving to invest in updated TiVo hardware and new service.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

FWIW, my TiVoHD has never had any problem communicating with my Roamio Plus during the 2.5 years I've had my Roamio, even after the announcement TiVo was no longer activating pre-Series 4 units. Working fine right now.
[edit] I forgot, recently that was broken. I got around it by transferring from TiVoHD->PC->Roamio, or vice versa. It has been fixed.

If I had experienced the problems the OP had, or even just a fraction of them, I might have made the same decision. Perhaps I've just been lucky. My cablecards, MRV, etc have never had a problem, and I am not cursed with having to use a TA, nor has my cable provider switched to mpeg4. I have lifetime on both my TiVos. I did not have lifetime on my S2ST or STDT.

Heck, just for OTA my HD is great.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

V7Goose said:


> ...A much wiser choice for them would be to have something like an "EARNED LIFETIME" service, were your older box is automatically transferred to lifetime status after you have continued to pay the monthly fee for long enough. For example, if the cost of normal Lifetime service is = 4 years of monthly fees, then give the poor long-suffering customer a break after the 6th or 7th year and reward their loyalty with Lifetime on the at box. Not only would that generate good will out the wazoo, but I'd bet a lot of those customers would consider using that new monthly saving to invest in updated TiVo hardware and new service.


I like the way you think. When I called to cancel my two and only TiVos I half-expected some type of offer to stay with them. I mean, given the choice of no money from me (I was monthly after all, and monthly customers SHOULD be more important than LT ones.) I thought, "Hey maybe they'll offer me a free unit to stay on." Nothing like that happened, so instead of continuing to soak me for money they are getting zip. Not saying I would have taken the offer as I assume it would have come with a contract period, but to be offered nothing to stay surprised me.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Stormspace said:


> Without lifetime service it astounds me that TiVo can charge a monthly fee for guide data that could be used to pay for actual on demand content. 14.99 a month (current price, not what I was paying) is the same as an HBO subscription via Amazon, a 4 stream HD sub to Netflix, or any number of streaming services that only require a simple device to access, a device without a monthly fee.


I've long felt that way. TiVo does not provide content, it provides convenience. And the idea of paying one's monthly content fee to a cableco and then paying a convenience fee, of a significant amount, to TiVo on top of that always has intrigued and astounded me. Mind you, I appreciate the convenience of my TiVo boxes, greatly. But at the monthly price of HBO?*

There are ways around that. Lifetime can be quite a deal (relatively speaking). As can be the current Roamio OTA, with lifetime included. And TiVo white and similar sales can be very advantageous. For me, these and similar deals are the only reason that I could see to join and remain in the TiVo ecosphere, in my own mind and as a value-oriented consumer (it's not simply a matter of the economics--it's also the principles behind that).

*Personally, I never have understood why the TiVo monthly fee needs to be as high as it is--there should be great economy in the numbers. The only possible explanation I can see is that TiVo, I often read, sells its boxes at a lower profitability so as to get people in the door, and then makes up for it in the monthly fee. For my mind, I'd rather see the "traditional" retail model.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Stormspace said:


> I like the way you think. When I called to cancel my two and only TiVos I half-expected some type of offer to stay with them. I mean, given the choice of no money from me (I was monthly after all, and monthly customers SHOULD be more important than LT ones.) I thought, "Hey maybe they'll offer me a free unit to stay on." Nothing like that happened, so instead of continuing to soak me for money they are getting zip. Not saying I would have taken the offer as I assume it would have come with a contract period, but to be offered nothing to stay surprised me.


I think that companies too often overlook the importance of customer service, customer attention, and simply making a customer feel good. Amazon has been good at this, but matters may be changing there--I recently had an off-shore rep hang up on me (really, Amazon?) in the middle of a civil conversation. On a very basic level, TiVo seems to be challenged in its communications, not even acknowledging receipt of communications (sorry, that's just inexcusable, and so easy to handle, through automated responses and macros), let alone often following through.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

I've personally always felt that Tivo needed to change significantly in order to survive long term. I saw the increasing penetration of cord cutting more than 5 years ago, along with a continuous uptick in younger generations viewing TV in a very different way than conventional methods. To me, given the fact that Tivo has always been a "niche premium" offering, it spelled trouble down the road. Added to this was to me the opinion that while the Tivo UI was excellent, the competition was catching up - and Tivo quality was continuing to decline. Plus, Customer service and tech support were IMHO always pretty much non-existent with Tivo. In fact, I've felt that Tivo support made Comcast look good.

What I didn't forecast was the incredible disaster that is Rovi (obviously now renamed Tivo). This took that "obsolescence curve" and turned it into a cliff. Where I used to think it was possible that Tivo could somehow adapt and survive, but effectively getting out of the retail business - I now believe that Tivo won't even be able to do that. My current Tivo hardware is absolutely the very last I'll ever spend with Tivo. My only outstanding question is whether or not to try and sell what I have before resale value completely tanks. Trying to figure that out now.


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## lafos (Nov 8, 2004)

I have had many TiVos dating back to 2002. I still have five, all with lifetime, but my TV viewing has dropped, so only two are in use. I'm in an area devoid of OTA, so must use cable, and the provider changed systems such that nothing can be viewed without a cablecard or set-top box.

With the new service YouTube announced, there is finally an option to get network stations and sports via the internet. Since I'm sure TiVo will not be able to record, and the service includes cloud DVR, the TiVos are destined to be retired.


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## chicagoenergy (Nov 15, 2013)

I'm slowly getting to the point of moving on as well. The constant resorting of my shows to a default order is driving me crazy. I no longer use Netflix on my Roamio due to the constant audio drops. I always switch over to my AppleTV. Comcast doesn't support HBO GO on the TiVo so again I flip over to the AppleTV. The guide data is slowly getting out of date as time progresses. Wrong show information, wrong channel information, lack of show descriptions, not updating online show availability with OnDemand, Hulu and Netflix... The convenience of having the TiVo is diminishing...


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## sinanju (Jan 3, 2005)

In addition to the well-known data issues, earlier in the year, my TiVo managed to miss the season finale of The Good Place during the NBC fark-up here in Boston, and then recorded the wrong thing for the final episode of Sherlock. Luckily, I was able to get both of them by other means. But, I completely understand the desire to chuck the box out the window.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

If you had bought lifetime for your Series 3 and Premiere TiVos, you would have come out ahead a long time ago. Your TiVo bill would have been $0 per month today.

MRV between the Premiere and Series 3 has been fixed in the latest release, so that's no longer an issue. But there was also a work-around of putting the Premiere in SD menu mode temporarily to start a transfer.

Many people solved the tuning adapter problem you have by buying a cheap timer to restart them daily.

Streaming services are a great way to consume content. Everyone makes their own choices.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

S


lafos said:


> I have had many TiVos dating back to 2002. I still have five, all with lifetime, but my TV viewing has dropped, so only two are in use. I'm in an area devoid of OTA, so must use cable, and the provider changed systems such that nothing can be viewed without a cablecard or set-top box.
> 
> With the new service YouTube announced, there is finally an option to get network stations and sports via the internet. Since I'm sure TiVo will not be able to record, and the service includes cloud DVR, the TiVos are destined to be retired.


sorry, but if cloud storage works similarly to streaming Netflix and Amazon, I'll stick with TiVo as long as I can. Replay, fast forward and other controls on streaming are far inferior to having the content local on one's HD. I'm also pretty much addicted to quick play and skip mode. In addition, none of these so called alternatives have anywhere near all the channels I want.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

chicagoenergy said:


> Comcast doesn't support HBO GO on the TiVo so again I flip over to the AppleTV.


Why not just use Comcast XOD to access HBO content? I normally just record the HBO movies that I want to watch but have used XOD on a few occasions. Note that I normally just search on the TiVo and play from there so little interaction with the XOD menu (for those that like complain about it). 

Scott


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Stormspace said:


> It's interesting to note that when I canceled service on the Series 3 HD model the TiVo rep said I would not be able to renew service on that should I change my mind. I think that in itself is the main reason my two units weren't talking, the HD unit isn't being supported any longer and an update to the premiere killed MRV for a long time. It may have come back in the last 6 months, I just haven't bothered to check


It was resolved but since you cancelled service you won't be able to use it. (and the fact that they are no longer allowing new subscriptions for S3 and older TiVo's was not the reason the 2 units weren't talking.)

Scott


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## delgadobb (Mar 6, 2004)

While I can understand where OP is coming from & I've had my own issues with Rovi aka Tivo, it seems like this is a 'dump on Tivo' thread. Make no mistake, they are not a perfect company & it's definitely gone downhill since the Rovi acquisition. That said, for many of us it's still the best thing going.

It seems like Tivo is taking the blame for either (1) things that weren't their fault or (2) could be handled with workarounds. A series 2 unit looking awful on HD is more a function of a HD TV exposing the flaws of SD, especially with LCD TVs looking so 'grainy' on SD content. My plasmas were generally fine. If OP knew the tuning adapter might be an issue, why not reboot before leaving for the weekend? Yes, tuning adapters can suck, but it's a cable rather than Tivo issue & there are workarounds. I've learned to be proactive & reboot them every couple weeks. Haven't had one lock up or freeze within a few days (weekend/vacation timeframe), the usual range is 2 weeks to 2 months - since becoming proactive, I haven't had an issue. Inconvenient? Sure. A reason to fire Tivo? No.

Outside of a brief window where we all had a problem with MRV, I haven't had any of the issues OP has experienced save the tuning adapter. Getting proactive fixed that. All of my Tivos have been lifetimed & in the long run it has saved me a ton. I *love* that my nearly 10 yr old Tivo HDs are still functional. My Tivos have more than paid for themselves & upon resale have helped pay for newer units. Even though I've spent a lot with Tivo, balanced out in the long run it's likely pretty affordable on a monthly basis & I guarantee I've saved ton$ vs cable equipment.

Going forward, of course I have concerns with Rovi & it may affect my decision upon further investments with Tivo products/services. In the meantime, let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

To a (very small) degree I agree with the above post. That is, I don't think the SD vs HD resolution thing is something you can hold Tivo accountable for and should be pretty much excluded from the discussion. That would happen with any device with an on-screen UI. 

The tuning adapter is slightly different, as for those MSOs, the Tivo requires integration with (or compliance with) the tuning adapter in order to perform its basic purpose. "Workarounds" are BS. Period. You wouldn't buy a new car if it wouldn't start in the morning, and required you to "catch it in gear"? Or if it ran on some fuel from some stations and not others. Can Tivo really "control" the issue? Probably not. But still, it's part of the landscape that Tivo absolutely knows it has to live in. Products should work. Period. End of discussion.

I would also say that it means nothing that Tivo either worked well in the past, or saved "X tons of money" in the past. That was the past. Not today. 

The TiVo of today has to be measured against its value - and its negatives - of today. There are a lot of opinions out there about what might happen. I think many know I've effectively given up on Tivo - others have not. Everyone has their own analysis of what is going on. However, one thing is for sure. The quality has in fact declined, and the cost has in fact gone up - all while the capability of the "competition" has steadily increased (though certainly not without cost). Think about it. The most basic bolt with lifetime costs $750 - plus the cost of the monthly cablecard (which is on its last legs as well....). I don't necessarily agree with all of the down points the OP made, but I do respect them. But I think that the actual reality is that there is far more pointing to problems than those listed in this post. 

If I had no Tivo equipment today, I would not even remotely consider Tivo as a solution. Not for a microsecond. The adoption cost is FAR too high, the quality is too low, the future is too uncertain (at best), the competition - at least in my area - is too good.

I don't think it's a situation where you consider throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I think there is no more water, and the baby is starving to death.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Had to LOL at the comment of S2 single/two-tuner Tivo as being the 'golden age' of Tivos. They are SO much better and more functional now than they were before - Minis alone make it a far superior solution than the 'good old days' of having to buy a Tivo for every room.

One Tivo with six tuners, a big drive and three Minis make it a great solution here.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

I think the OP meant that the value proposition of the Tivo, their quality and capability compared to the competition at that time, was the "golden age" of Tivo. Today, there is far more competition in terms of both quality and capability. And, in those days Tivo seemed like they were at least trying to provide customer service and support.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I think the OP missed out on the real "golden age". Because he didn't stay current with the equipment he missed out on the things that make TiVo truly great today. Namely 6 tuners, Minis and Skip Mode.

A single 6 tuner Roamio or Bolt with a few Minis spread around the house provides a vastly superior experience then anything we ever got with S2 or HD units. And Skip Mode just adds a whole new dimension to it. It's the single greatest feature TiVo has ever offered.

I know we've had some issues of late with the quality of the guide data, and I'm a little disappointed in that too, but there is no way I'd even consider jumping over to the cable company DVR. By comparison it is just utter crap.

Edit: Also you missed out by not buying in to lifetime. Based on the speed at which you upgraded your equipment you would have paid vastly less if you had bought in to lifetime instead. And those TiVos you just retired would have actually had some resale value still.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

wmhjr said:


> The adoption cost is FAR too high . . . .


Agreed, with a couple of qualifications:

The current Roamio OTA is perhaps the best standard deal, or one of the best, that TiVo ever has offered--$400 MSRP with lifetime included. (And if one wants to play the system, can be made cable-compatible by modding in a $12 cable card adapter.) At or below the price of a Series 2 with lifetime from 11 years ago, without even considering inflation. (Of course, one could still argue that $400 is too much, for what a TiVo does.)

Second, if one initially can stomach the cost of a Bolt plus lifetime, it can provide the basis for a whole-home solution, as Dan mentions above, through the addition of $150 Mini's (with no separate subscription needed for the Mini's)--can be very cost-effective (relatively-speaking), depending on one's needs. In earlier days, one had no choice but to buy individual Tivo boxes (not Mini's) or to buy a main box and then to add Mini's but which then, at the time, each needed its own subscription.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> I think the OP missed out on the real "golden age". Because he didn't stay current with the equipment he missed out on the things that make TiVo truly great today. Namely 6 tuners, Minis and Skip Mode.
> 
> A single 6 tuner Roamio or Bolt with a few Minis spread around the house provides a vastly superior experience then anything we ever got with S2 or HD units. And Skip Mode just adds a whole new dimension to it. It's the single greatest feature TiVo has ever offered.
> 
> ...


I have to strongly disagree.

To me - and apparently to the OP - the definition of the "Golden Age" was with respect to the comparison between Tivo and its competition. Back then, there was really no contest if you were willing to make the up front purchase.

Today, I just don't see that. Now, there are pros and cons for each. I have (in addition to all of my Tivos - which BTW are all on lifetime) one Verizon box, and I have relatives that have what you call "utter crap". I am very inquisitive and analytic in my decisions. When I moved to Tivo, I had the use of redundant RG6 going to each main room in my home, so that I could compare Tivo to CableCo equipment as a direct back to back comparison. Just like I did during my comparison of Dish to Comcast (at that time Adelphia) and then Comcast to FiOS. The differences in quality and reliability at that time were immense. Not so today. Today, whole home experience is routine. Streaming is routine. Frankly, with the exception of Tivo, OnDemand is routine. You can get tons of tuners. Capacity is much better. Do I like the Tivo UI better? Yup. Is it a game changer? Nope. I don't care about the integration of streaming content into OP, or Netflix, etc in the Tivo. Other devices (that are really cheap and have no subscription at all) do this much better. Is skip mode great? Yup. But I can live without it, and it isn't on everything - not even close.

And beyond that, the "lifetime" of today for new devices is, well, just way too expensive.

So, the "new" value proposition is very different than the old one. Add to this the increased question of what happens with cablecard support, newer technology, the advent of more streaming capability elsewhere, Rovi, etc?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Competition is relative. There is basically zero competition in the retail space if you have cable, and if you have OTA the competition is much worse then TiVo. In the cable space the competition is based on what market you live in. Here in Charter territory (now the second largest cable company) your only choice is a 10+ year old 2 tuner DVR with 250GB HDD and no multi-room option. TiVo is significantly better. 

So while Verizon or Comcast might offer comparable boxes in their markets, more then half the country lives in markets where they are not available.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> Competition is relative. There is basically zero competition in the retail space if you have cable, and if you have OTA the competition is much worse then TiVo. In the cable space the competition is based on what market you live in. Here in Charter territory (now the second largest cable company) your only choice is a 10+ year old 2 tuner DVR with 250GB HDD and no multi-room option. TiVo is significantly better.
> 
> So while Verizon or Comcast might offer comparable boxes in their markets, more then half the country lives in markets where they are not available.


Fair statements Dan. For that, I'd have to agree that Tivo is significantly better. Fortunately for me, I have multiple options with both Comcast and Fios. Problem for Tivo is that you can't base a business on a niche market in smaller segments of the country. And you can't sacrifice the core capability of the product in the fact of such a changing landscape and expect to stay in business.


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## LynnL999 (Oct 7, 2002)

Skip mode is the best thing to happen to TiVo since folders


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Agreed. I've become so accustom to skip mode that I'm actually annoyed on the rare occasion I record a program that doesn't have it because I have to manually FF. #FirstWorldProblems


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

Dan203 said:


> Agreed. I've become so accustom to skip mode that I'm actually annoyed on the rare occasion I record a program that doesn't have it because I have to manually FF. #FirstWorldProblems


I agree skip mode is the best thing ever. It is the one thing that I quite enjoy about my TiVos. My cable system has a 6 tuner whole home system but it is currently running the old Moxi UI.


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

I agree Skip Mode is the best thing, and Auto Skip Mode (via kmttg) is pure bliss.


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## CTLesq (Jan 19, 2003)

Lurker1 said:


> I agree Skip Mode is the best thing, and Auto Skip Mode (via kmttg) is pure bliss.


What is auto skip mode, please?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

CTLesq said:


> What is auto skip mode, please?


Automatic SkipMode Project Proposal


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## NYHeel (Oct 7, 2003)

wmhjr said:


> I have to strongly disagree.
> 
> To me - and apparently to the OP - the definition of the "Golden Age" was with respect to the comparison between Tivo and its competition. Back then, there was really no contest if you were willing to make the up front purchase.
> 
> ...


But even if the Tivo was only equivalent to the Verizon Quantum DVR, it still costs much less. A two room Quantum DVR would cost me $40 (it would be $44 for everyone outside the NYC metro area) which is $35 more than the $5 cable card charge. At that rate it's $840 (or $936 for outside NYC area) in monthly cost savings over 2 years. That should more than cover the cost of equipment for a two room Tivo system. Add more rooms and the pricing gets even better since a Mini is a great deal vs. another cable box rental fee.


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## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

I have always felt TiVo priced it's products (including service) about a third higher than what most people want to spend. Still how much (especially in real terms) has the total cost for a TiVo system gone up? I only got into TiVo with the HD unit and it seems it retailed for $299.99 plus either $12.95/month, $129/yearly, and maybe $299.99/lifetime for service? So total cost was $600 with lifetime. And as mentioned in other posts it wasn't capable of becoming a whole house DVR system and had a pitifully small hard drive (160gb or 20hrs. of HD recording time) so you pretty much would need to add an external storage device for another $129. And wasn't the series 3 unit much more expensive that the HD model? I do understand that as most electronics have come down in price it might be arguable that TiVo doesn't compare well today. But if you compare OTA options the TiVo OTA is well priced at $399.99. As for cable I helped friends switch from their Time Warner DVR to a Bolt and their monthly cost is nearly half of what they were paying TWC for DVR & service. Granted they had the initial outlay for the box but they will make that up within just a few years and they now have a system they much prefer and long term costs them less. So while I'd love to see TiVo cost less (especially service) I'm not sure I agree that it costs substantially more than it has in the past. This is especially true if you are adding a couple of Mini's to the mix.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

TeamPace said:


> I have always felt TiVo priced it's products (including service) about a third higher than what most people want to spend. Still how much (especially in real terms) has the total cost for a TiVo system gone up?


Really depends on what someone needs and when someone bought in, in the past.

If someone wants 6 tuners and has 3 TVs pretty much anytime in the past that you bought 3 current model dual tuner TiVos with lifetime cost you more than a Bolt+ with lifetime and 2 Minis costs now. Same with one TV and 4 tuners, in the past 2 current model dual tuner TiVos with lifetime would cost you at least $1000 now a Bolt with lifetime is several hundred dollars less than that. Heck in the single tuner days 4 single tuner TiVos with lifetime would have cost your at $1200 when the units where free and lifetime was only $299. Of course most people don't think of it that way they think of it per unit not what a setup with the same number of tuners covering the same number of TVs cost.

However if you compare what various Roamio options cost when they were the current units to equivalent setups with Bolts, the cost is pretty much the same or the Roamio setup was less.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

TeamPace said:


> But if you compare OTA options the TiVo OTA is well priced at $399.99.


^ +1. The same price or less than a Series 2 (at the time) with lifetime, even without considering inflation.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

TeamPace said:


> And as mentioned in other posts it wasn't capable of becoming a whole house DVR system and had a pitifully small hard drive (160gb or 20hrs. of HD recording time)


And half or one-third the tuners, right?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

atmuscarella said:


> However if you compare what various Roamio options cost when they were the current units to equivalent setups with Bolts, the Bolt setup will cost more.


But can you really put a price on the hump?


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## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

atmuscarella said:


> However if you compare what various Roamio options cost when they were the current units to equivalent setups with Bolts, the Bolt setup will cost more.


This comparison is true. Guess I was thinking long term pricing trends. TiVo did get greedy with the Lifetime pricing with the introduction of the Bolt and I think it hurt them.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

krkaufman said:


> But can you really put a price on the hump?


 Actually I was changing my post while you posted yours. I think the minis cost enough more when the Roamios where new that setups using minis cost as much or more with Roamios as they do now with Bolts.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

TeamPace said:


> This comparison is true. Guess I was thinking long term pricing trends. TiVo did get greedy with the Lifetime pricing with the introduction of the Bolt and I think it hurt them.


TiVo was hurting before the Bolt. The Bolt was their last gasp at their business model. Even Ira alluded to this in the Q&A sessions he had on this forum. TiVo's survival was mainly based on their growing MSO presence, dwindling lawsuit money, and their digital smiths acquisition.


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## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

atmuscarella said:


> I think the minis cost enough more when the Roamios where new that setups using minis cost as much or more with Roamios as they do now with Bolts.


Hadn't considered that. The Mini's were much more expensive originally (with service). We do have to consider the fact that even though the Lifetime/All In costs went up you are essentially paying for a whole home system with that fee which wasn't true in the past. That doesn't help those with just a single Bolt but for most households a Mini or two would be much desired and it makes the math work out much better.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

TeamPace said:


> Hadn't considered that. The Mini's were much more expensive originally (with service). We do have to consider the fact that even though the Lifetime/All In costs went up you are essentially paying for a whole home system with that fee which wasn't true in the past. That doesn't help those with just a single Bolt but for most households a Mini or two would be much desired and it makes the math work out much better.


The sweet spots now are, a whole-home set-up or a Roamio OTA. In between and with cable, and it can hurt.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> Competition is relative. There is basically zero competition in the retail space if you have cable, and if you have OTA the competition is much worse then TiVo. In the cable space the competition is based on what market you live in. Here in Charter territory (now the second largest cable company) your only choice is a 10+ year old 2 tuner DVR with 250GB HDD and no multi-room option. TiVo is significantly better.


I'm absolutely amazed at how awful Charter's CPE is. Comcast did MR-DVR in some markets pre-X1, and now all markets have X1. Cox moved to X1, RCN and a few others use TiVo, Verizon has VMS, U-Verse and Vantage TV have their 4-tuner multi-room (depending on if you are close enough to your VRAD to do 4HD), and DirecTV's 5-tuner multiroom system is 6 months away from replacement by an even more powerful 4k multiroom system. And Charter is handing out boxes that seem largely unchanged from about 2005 with a slightly upgraded hard drive?

In terms of the OP, the OP's TiVos have various issues which are all solvable, as others have noted in this thread. These are not reasons to dislike TiVo. TiVo's multiroom setup is impressive, even with a now aging Premiere XL4 at the center of it, and it just gets better as you get newer. TiVo's cost effectiveness has gotten a lot better. Before the Mini, you had to buy a $650 TiVo for every TV, which could add up quick if you had a bunch of TVs. Now, once you buy the main TiVo, it's only $150 per TV, which is a good deal.

I paid $900 for my XL4, today with the Bolt, you could get a Bolt and upgrade the drive to a couple of TB for about the same price. Even though the breakdown of the all-in service has gotten very spendy, the overall cost is still about the same, as it's an even faster box, and more versatile with OTA and cable options. And nothing beats the Roamio OTA for value, even at $400, and many of us got them at $200 or $300. You could argue that the Bolt+ is outrageously expensive, because it is, but so was the Roamio Pro, and no one else has made a DVR with that many tuners *and* that much storage.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Bigg said:


> Before the Mini, you had to buy a $650 TiVo for every TV, which could add up quick if you had a bunch of TVs. Now, once you buy the main TiVo, it's only $150 per TV, which is a good deal.


It was pretty brutal even when the Minis were first introduced, though better, at $250 per additional TV ($100 Mini retail + $150 Lifetime service).


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> It was pretty brutal even when the Minis were first introduced, though better, at $250 per additional TV ($100 Mini retail + $150 Lifetime service).


It was a lot better than $650/tv. I bought my 3 Minis at $250/tv, but I had roommates for a while, so they were paying me their share of $10/mo for one of the Minis and $20/mo for the Premiere XL4.


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## tluxon (Feb 28, 2002)

Okay - Lifetime/All-In has gone up significantly since I first graduated from our ReplayTV/Comcast DVR setup to two TiVoHDs, but I had to pay $700 for lifetime on those two units back then ($399 for 1st unit, $299 for 2nd) and two of those took 2 CableCards and splitting and running extra RG6 for my Cable/OTA input. I was happy to pay for the hardware and the lifetime subscriptions back then and I believe we're getting MORE for our money now (although I had to settle for a 4-tuner Bolt in order to retain future OTA capability).
The bottom line, though, put us far ahead of where we would've been paying a minimum of $20/month for two Comcast DVRs with much lower capacity and for many years a much less convenient means (remember CapDVHS?) to offload content to a PC/mobile device. I estimate it would've cost at least $2000 in rental fees for two Comcast DVRs over the past 8 years and they'd be worth nothing now. As it is, I have two lifetime HDs still that could probably sell for $150 each on eBay.
So is a Bolt plus lifetime a lot of money? Sure, but it's actually delivering a lot more functionality for less money when considering the number of tuners and the resale value of a 3- or 4-year old unit with lifetime. The per month cost becomes quite reasonable in a hurry. IMO.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Yes, exactly - once you factor in resale value of a lifetime'd Tivo you realize that they pay for themselves quickly vs. renting a DVR. And you get a much better experience in the whole house to boot.


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

tluxon said:


> Sure, but it's actually delivering a lot more functionality for less money when considering the number of tuners and the resale value of a 3- or 4-year old unit with lifetime. The per month cost becomes quite reasonable in a hurry. IMO.


Delivering a lot more functionality? You haven't tried the new Dish or Xfinity DVRs lately I'm guessing. I understand liking TiVo best but I'm not seeing that LOT MORE stuff myself.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

slowbiscuit said:


> And you get a much better experience in the whole house to boot.


I think that the pain especially can be if you're only looking for a single-room (or even 2-room) solution, if you can't go Roamio OTA (or aren't one to mod a Roamio OTA with a cable card adapter).


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## tluxon (Feb 28, 2002)

mschnebly said:


> Delivering a lot more functionality? You haven't tried the new Dish or Xfinity DVRs lately I'm guessing. I understand liking TiVo best but I'm not seeing that LOT MORE stuff myself.


Just to clarify - I was contrasting what the new TiVo offers with my options in the past (2008-ish TiVoHD and Comcast DVR). I know some DVRs have up to 16 tuners, but I really prefer the UI and 3rd party apps of the TiVo. To each their own.


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## schatham (Mar 17, 2007)

I still like Tivo. I have been using Tivo since 2005. Tivo was always something you paid a little extra for, but was worth the cost. Today with the mini's Tivo actually saves you money over Cable DVR's. No HD fee, extra outlet fee's and extra box fees. This can save $30 a month. Granted you have to buy the Tivo's outright, but to me it's worth it.


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

tluxon said:


> Just to clarify - I was contrasting what the new TiVo offers with my options in the past (2008-ish TiVoHD and Comcast DVR). I know some DVRs have up to 16 tuners, but I really prefer the UI and 3rd party apps of the TiVo. To each their own.


My wife uses Pandora and Netflix on the X1 but I prefer our Roku for streaming. My TiVo has been in the closet for a while now as I've grown to really like the X1 with the voice control. That is a killer app for me.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

Dan203 said:


> Competition is relative. There is basically zero competition in the retail space if you have cable, and if you have OTA the competition is much worse then TiVo. In the cable space the competition is based on what market you live in. Here in Charter territory (now the second largest cable company) your only choice is a 10+ year old 2 tuner DVR with 250GB HDD and no multi-room option. TiVo is significantly better.
> 
> So while Verizon or Comcast might offer comparable boxes in their markets, more then half the country lives in markets where they are not available.


And while the TiVo OTA is by far superior to the Channel Master DVR+, the DVR+ is still by preferre by most I either know who have cut the cord or are considering it. While up front price is similar today (TiVo was far more expensive in total costs back when CM DVR's came out, so it was CM or nothing and CM had no additional fees compared to TiVo back then), those I've spoken with view TiVo like the Apple of DVR's: all sorts of accessories to spend more money for stuff or capabilities they don't want. It isn't always rational thinking from those folks, but what matters is they think the way they do and buy accordingly, and their decisicions They gush so much LOVE for the CM DVR+ and earlier models. Is it crazy? Absolutely, but this is the market TiVo didn't understand and failed to bring in because TiVo changed it pricing too late to make a difference. And CM still has the "no fees" aura even though TiVo, finally, has the OTA with no fees. I also think some of those folks view TiVo as "fancy" with features they don't want and look for a simple DVR that equates lower price. Like I said, not always rational, but TiVo didn't move quick enough to compete with CM DVR and now has lost those now loyal to CM DVR+. Sad? But true.

And FWIW, a competitor has 16 tuners, PIP and 4 picture PIP (to be updated to 6), an OOH streaming experince that really works (not the lousy TiVo Stream experience with poor PQ), a recordings transfer that does not require "workarounds" to constatnly being required to sign in when there is no internet access--the whole point of transferring shows--and the option of a seperate hub to tranfer and then playback recordings with 5 seperate streams to seperate devices at one time (family on vacation and OOH) requiring no internet connection, clients that provide an experience just like at the DVR with full control and functionality--something the Mini is still frustratingly not quite able to do--better EPG design, wireless clients and support for them, records OTA as well as its MVPD service, and more.

In the world of OTA DVR's, no question TiVo is by far the best DVR, and it is still the best when compared to cable co DVR's although like of universal VOD access is a big limiting factor for some. Compared to, at least the satellite services, most significantly Dish, TiVo IMHO ranks 3rd because of it many shortfalls, and mostly because the MSO's still provide junk DVR's even after all this time to catch up. TiVo's best days really were back in the Golden Age when TiVo was so far ahead of any other DVR offered way back then, and it was a better value than it is today, with the exception of the OTA model which is a good value, but most people still desire a DVR to record programs from their MVPD, not just OTA, and the new Bolt pricing is just plain bad. At least when one of the MVPD's retires a series of box or DVR, they provide a new like-one at no additional charge. TiVo still expects those who spent $800 PLUS LIFETIME in many cases, for an S3 648 (does not support MPEG4) to still pay up even more money to be granted great favor of a very poor value "discount" for trading up to a new TiVo DVR--and then buy at full price the clients to replace the multiple S3 648's (at least a $1,600 investment PLUS TWO LIFETIME FEES in some cases) in other rooms to replicate something close to what they had, but then the Mini provides a diminshed experinece compared to TiVo DVR, but those with forced obsolete 648's aren't about to repeat the mistake of making such a huge investment in multiple TiVo DVR's considering the bones TiVo threw at 648 owners who would be out of luck soon.

Yes, TiVo really was at its best in thsoe "Golden Days" but one could understand that this was inevitable considering TiVo business model that did not include offering an MVPD service. TiVo has nowhere else to get any money but from the subscriber (the money made for its data gathering really hasn't saved them from their problems) and only the subscriber. Let's just hope the Rovi management does not further greatly ruin what's left of the TiVo brand and reputation of yore.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

mschnebly said:


> My wife uses Pandora and Netflix on the X1 but I prefer our Roku for streaming. My TiVo has been in the closet for a while now as I've grown to really like the X1 with the voice control. That is a killer app for me.


Ugh. That is just lipstick on a pig. I'll give them credit for their T9-esque interface, which is a really quick way to type, but really, what is the point of voice control? Have we as Americans gotten so lazy that we can't even click a few buttons to find a TV show to watch while vegging on the couch?



Series3Sub said:


> And while the TiVo OTA is by far superior to the Channel Master DVR+, the DVR+ is still by preferre by most I either know who have cut the cord or are considering it.


That sounds like a marketing and branding problem more than a product problem. The Roamio OTA is second to none in the OTA space, and at $370 including service and a hard drive, it is really an incredible value.



> And FWIW, a competitor has 16 tuners, PIP and 4 picture PIP (to be updated to 6), an OOH streaming experince that really works .... better EPG design, wireless clients and support for them, records OTA as well as its MVPD service, and more.


I don't know much about the Hopper because DISH does not care to serve my market (they will install service, but they are missing so many of our sports channels that they're useless here), and it sounds like it does some cool stuff, although I'm not sure it's really a direct competitor to TiVo. At least the Genie is theoretically a direct competitor to the Series 3-eque THR22, but generally people are choosing the MSO first and taking whatever DVR is available with it. That being said, a former co-worker of mine switched from DISH to Atlantic Broadband in order to get Triple Play, and said that he liked the Hopper more than the TiVo T6, but his logic was arse-backwards. He said that he liked that the Hopper didn't jump back when FF'ing, as he likes to FF through sports games and not see what happens on a play. I'd say that TiVo got it right here, as once you lean the FF'ing and RW'ing, you can actually hit the right spot virtually every time.



> Compared to, at least the satellite services, most significantly Dish, TiVo IMHO ranks 3rd because of it many shortfalls, and mostly because the MSO's still provide junk DVR's even after all this time to catch up. TiVo's best days really were back in the Golden Age when TiVo was so far ahead of any other DVR offered way back then, and it was a better value than it is today...


I disagree. There is a risk at this point with Comcast in particular that they are going to start going IP and effectively stop supporting TiVo before a unit bought today would pay off, but aside from that, I think TiVo has a huge value proposition on Spectrum, as in many markets they don't even have WH-DVR at all, and DirecTV and DISH have marketed the idea quite a bit, and it is now available everywhere on Comcast with X1. For whatever reason, Charter is years behind on their CPE, and they haven't licensed TiVo or X1 like many other MSOs did.



> At least when one of the MVPD's retires a series of box or DVR, they provide a new like-one at no additional charge. TiVo still expects those who spent $800 PLUS LIFETIME in many cases, for an S3 648 (does not support MPEG4)...


Are you insane? Assuming that you bought right at the end of the TCD648 production in 2008, and were amongst the first Comcast systems converted to MPEG-4 in 2015, you're still talking 7+ years of operation, in the meantime avoiding roughly $1500 or more in Comcast DVR fees, and they still have resale value for OTA use, or use on MPEG-2 cable systems. Everything TCD652 and later will continue to operate for the forseeable future on all major US MSOs plus Verizon/Frontier/Cinci Bell fiber.



> ...but then the Mini provides a diminshed experinece compared to TiVo DVR, but those with forced obsolete 648's aren't about to repeat the mistake of making such a huge investment in multiple TiVo DVR's considering the bones TiVo threw at 648 owners who would be out of luck soon.


Except for following multiple sports games with independent buffers at once, the TiVo Mini provides the same experience as a Roamio.


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

Bigg said:


> Ugh. That is just lipstick on a pig. I'll give them credit for their T9-esque interface, which is a really quick way to type, but really, what is the point of voice control? Have we as Americans gotten so lazy that we can't even click a few buttons to find a TV show to watch while vegging on the couch?


It's not about lazy, it's about simplicity. Just say "weather" instead of clicking around trying to remember where it is. I know the X1 isn't for you but for the folks I know every single one loves the voice control. Why scroll through favorite channels when you can just say "Discovery" and it's right there. Same with VOD and any settings. The more features that become available the more simplicity will be what folks demand. Why use Siri or google voice on a smart phone for information? Simplicity!


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

Stormspace said:


> Without lifetime service it astounds me that TiVo can charge a monthly fee for guide data that could be used to pay for actual on demand content. 14.99 a month (current price, not what I was paying) is the same as an HBO subscription via Amazon, a 4 stream HD sub to Netflix, or any number of streaming services that only require a simple device to access, a device without a monthly fee.





Mikeguy said:


> I've long felt that way. TiVo does not provide content, it provides convenience. And the idea of paying one's monthly content fee to a cableco and then paying a convenience fee, of a significant amount, to TiVo on top of that always has intrigued and astounded me. Mind you, I appreciate the convenience of my TiVo boxes, greatly. But at the monthly price of HBO?*


That's a great way to look at the costs. I've always been Lifetime because I compared the cost of Lifetime to monthly costs. But comparing monthly pricing to content costs makes it look especially bad.

HBO creates original content and makes it available to me along with lots of other content they've licensed. And we should pay the same amount for the data that tells us _what time shows are on?_ I understand they don't have as many subs as HBO and need to make some money, but the relative values are _way_ out of whack. That's clearly a "we've calculated what we can get away with" number.

We're still driving Premieres because the Bolt+ + Lifetime pricing is too much.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

tlc said:


> That's a great way to look at the costs. I've always been Lifetime because I compared the cost of Lifetime to monthly costs. But comparing monthly pricing to content costs makes it look especially bad.
> 
> HBO creates original content and makes it available to me along with lots of other content they've licensed. And we should pay the same amount for the data that tells us _what time shows are on?_ I understand they don't have as many subs as HBO and need to make some money, but the relative values are _way_ out of whack. That's clearly a "we've calculated what we can get away with" number.
> 
> We're still driving Premieres because the Bolt+ + Lifetime pricing is too much.


If I knew someone now looking at TiVo and new to it, absent waiting around for a possible TiVo special like last year's white sale, I think I would recommend the Roamio OTA and then adding a cable card adapter to it, if one does cable.

I would make one amendment to my earlier comment that TiVo is selling convenience, not content: depending on one's broadcasting market, one can move into the realm of a content library, which is more than simply convenience. In my area, there has been such an explosion of sub-channels that it is impossible for me to keep up with the re-broadcasting of earlier movies and television series that I might like to watch, perhaps having missed them when originally broadcast. For example, one of the broadcasters has been re-broadcasting all of the Star Trek television series, a total of 6 hours a day, 6 days a week. PBS in my area has blossomed into 9 separate sub-channels (although some of them largely duplicative). And another commercial channel has dedicated itself to running quality theatrical releases from the past, often over-looked. In that regard, the TiVo can become a content library creator of earlier content, a great service of its own.


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## brimorga (Oct 22, 2016)

mschnebly said:


> It's not about lazy, it's about simplicity. Just say "weather" instead of clicking around trying to remember where it is. I know the X1 isn't for you but for the folks I know every single one loves the voice control. Why scroll through favorite channels when you can just say "Discovery" and it's right there. Same with VOD and any settings. The more features that become available the more simplicity will be what folks demand. Why use Siri or google voice on a smart phone for information? Simplicity!


I like voice control. I'm doing something similar with my Tivo, but I'm using an Amazon echo and a harmony hub to do it. Granted I can't say watch this particular show yet, but I can turn on/off my tv, change inputs and change channels, basically anything you can do with a remote button. I use the remote 90% of the time still, but having voice control when I want it is sweet. It's nice to be able to adjust all the lights at the same time as well!

My whole thing is to avoid monthly fee's, I can't go back to paying a box rental and additional outlet fees. If you have multiple tv's, lifetime and mini's is the way to go, but if you only have 1 tv, I can see how renting a box works for you economically.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

I don't know anyone who uses the voice remote. Everyone I know who got X1 got it because that's what Comcast gave them, and it's "good enough", and they don't want to fork over the dough for TiVo (at least up front), or they don't now any better. I assume you mean Google Now? It's a cool gimmick, but I have yet to find it terribly useful compared to just typing. I used it more when I first got the phone, as it took a while to get used to typing on it, but once I did, it was faster to just type into the search bar.


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## Scooter Scott (Jun 1, 2015)

I currently have lifetime OTA and am test driving a Tablo 4-tuner DVR. I'm just tired of the TiVo's constant bugs. And I don't have a high confidence level for its future.


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## schatham (Mar 17, 2007)

3 HD TV's using Tivo is $15 a month. Same house X1 would be How much for 3 hd TV's. At least $30. Now explain how paying $15 minus $2.50 credit, $12.50 is worse than $30.


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

brimorga said:


> I like voice control. I'm doing something similar with my Tivo, but I'm using an Amazon echo and a harmony hub to do it. Granted I can't say watch this particular show yet, but I can turn on/off my tv, change inputs and change channels, basically anything you can do with a remote button. I use the remote 90% of the time still, but having voice control when I want it is sweet. It's nice to be able to adjust all the lights at the same time as well!
> 
> My whole thing is to avoid monthly fee's, I can't go back to paying a box rental and additional outlet fees. If you have multiple tv's, lifetime and mini's is the way to go, but if you only have 1 tv, I can see how renting a box works for you economically.


I've wondered how nice those Echos are. Sounds pretty good.
Our X1 and companion for the BR was thrown in with the bundle (free as in no additional charge). So you could just say "included" not free. Voice control to me is amazing. I'm going to look into that Echo though for the other things like you mentioned!


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

schatham said:


> 3 HD TV's using Tivo is $15 a month. Same house X1 would be How much for 3 hd TV's. At least $30. Now explain how paying $15 minus $2.50 credit, $12.50 is worse than $30.


Around here (Twin Cities) Comcast will include the boxes in a bundle with 2 year lock-in with a little negotiation so I agree that paying an additional $30 is foolish. So same cost for me if I use X1 or my TiVo. Since we love the voice control we chose X1.


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

Scooter Scott said:


> I currently have lifetime OTA and *am test driving a Tablo 4-tuner DVR*. I'm just tired of the TiVo's constant bugs. And I don't have a high confidence level for its future.


Would appreciate hearing what you think of the Tablo 4T DVR


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## Scooter Scott (Jun 1, 2015)

just4tivo said:


> Would appreciate hearing what you think of the Tablo 4T DVR


So far I'm loving it. What I like most about it is that it allows me to stream my local OTA channels to any device anywhere.

The guide is slow to populate sometimes, and watching live TV does take about 10-20 seconds to buffer. But once it is buffered and playing it doesn't skip a beat...and I have it set on the highest quality setting.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Scooter Scott said:


> So far I'm loving it. What I like most about it is that it allows me to stream my local OTA channels to any device anywhere.
> 
> The guide is slow to populate sometimes, and watching live TV does take about 10-20 seconds to buffer. But once it is buffered and playing it doesn't skip a beat...and I have it set on the highest quality setting.


Yeah, that 10-20 second buffer would be a deal-killer for me. One of the things I like about live OTA TV is the ability to do some light channel surfing. If it took more than 2 seconds for a channel to tune in, I'd get frustrated. I wonder if the delay will be that bad with the upcoming TiVo Mavrik. The only other comparable device I can think of are SiliconDust's network tuners (for OTA and CableCARD). I don't think the delay when tuning is bad at all with those, although it probably depends on whether you're using the model that transcodes everything to lower bitrate h.264 or the one that simply passes through the native signal received.


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

Scooter Scott said:


> So far I'm loving it. What I like most about it is that it allows me to stream my local OTA channels to any device anywhere.
> 
> The guide is slow to populate sometimes, and watching live TV does take about 10-20 seconds to buffer. But once it is buffered and playing it doesn't skip a beat...and I have it set on the highest quality setting.


So I'd pay $300 for the Tablo 4T DVR and $175 for lifetime(?) guide *but* the Tablo 4T DVR won't record until I buy my own external USB (not eSATA) storage device and won't put video and audio on my TV until I buy a separate set top box (ROKU, Apple TV, Amazon Fire Stick, etc) and would need additional set top boxes (ROKU, Apple TV, Amazon Fire Stick, etc) to put audio and video on additional TVs in the house?

This is a DVR designed by a congressional committee. Where do I get inline?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

just4tivo said:


> So I'd pay $300 for the Tablo 4T DVR and $175 for lifetime(?) guide *but* the Tablo 4T DVR won't record until I buy my own external USB (not eSATA) storage device and won't put video and audio on my TV until I buy a separate set top box (ROKU, Apple TV, Amazon Fire Stick, etc) and would need additional set top boxes (ROKU, Apple TV, Amazon Fire Stick, etc) to put audio and video on additional TVs in the house?
> 
> This is a DVR designed by a congressional committee. Where do I get inline?


Ya not much of a value proposition compared to a Roamio OTA if you primarily watch TV on a TV. This changes some if you want to watch TV on alternative devices and/or find the need for a Roku, Apple TV, etc. anyways.


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

atmuscarella said:


> Ya not much of a value proposition compared to a Roamio OTA if you primarily watch TV on a TV. This changes some if you want to watch TV on alternative devices and/or find the need for a Roku, Apple TV, etc. anyways.


It is an interesting business model... let's sell an OTA DVR that won't record until you spend money with another company for an external USB hard drive and won't put a picture on your TV until you spend money with yet another company for a set top box that truly shouldn't be needed. Kinda the same logic as selling something @ cost and making the loss up with volume sales.

Based on that business model one would be smarter to buy WD stock and Apple or ROKU or Amazon stock than Tablo stock cause Tablo is seeding customers for those companies..


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## Scooter Scott (Jun 1, 2015)

For me:

I had a Seagate 2TB expansion drive sitting around I wasn't using. 
I already have ATV 4, Roku 3 and Chromecast.
Already had an antenna from the OTA

I bought the Tablo for $277 from amazon and I'm still in my 30 day trial. If I choose lifetime for the guide date, its an extra $150. It is pretty expensive I agree. But I would also have to buy a TiVo stream in order to stream to all of the devices, local and outside my home.

I'm not saying it is the cheapest option...but TiVo hasn't given me a warm fuzzy that they are in it to support their DVR lineup.


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

Scooter Scott said:


> For me:
> 
> I had a Seagate 2TB expansion drive sitting around I wasn't using.
> I already have ATV 4, Roku 3 and Chromecast.
> Already had an antenna from the OTA


That stuff still cost you money.



Scooter Scott said:


> I bought the Tablo for $277 from amazon and I'm still in my 30 day trial. If I choose lifetime for the guide date, its an extra $150. It is pretty expensive I agree. But I would also have to buy a TiVo stream in order to stream to all of the devices, local and outside my home.
> 
> I'm not saying it is the cheapest option...*but TiVo hasn't given me a warm fuzzy that they are in it to support their DVR lineup*.


Agree, but Tablo's business model doesn't look good for them in the long haul and what does Tablo consider *LIFETIME* and is there guide going to be as reliable and trouble free as the TiVo guide...?


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

It's a networked device. You can't watch things directly off of a NAS, and your router doesn't have a screen. Tablo is a great device if OTA is not your primary content source, but you want some OTA, and/or you have a lot of TVs that you want to watch on. Personally, I'd much rather have TiVo, but I can see the appeal of Tablo.


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

Bigg said:


> It's a networked device. You can't watch things directly off of a NAS, and your router doesn't have a screen. Tablo is a great device if OTA is not your primary content source...


But the Tablo 4 tuner DVR *IS* an OTA device... that's what the 4 tuners are for. Why bring in content OTA and then not put it on a TV or two in the house? I don't want to watch OTA and recorded OTA programming on a 21" monitor when I have a 54" plasma TV sitting in the next room... would you? That is just plain stupid.



Bigg said:


> Personally, I'd much rather have TiVo, but I can see the appeal of Tablo.


I'd rather have TiVo if TiVo was reliable and corrected problems in a reasonable time frame, but TiVo has been neither lately and there's little reason to think that will improve with Rovi driving the bus.

I'm looking at Tablo as a replacement for TiVo and it could easily be that with the addition of HDMI output which would have been a negligible increase in manufacturing cost and enabled Tablo to mine a larger potential market that exists right now... VERY short sighted of them.

Perhaps Tablo could look into a USB to HDMI dongle and correct their short shortsightedness and give the cord cutter market a viable OTA option to the TiVo Roamio... they already have the four OTA tuners.

The Tablo 4T OTA DVR is the answer to a question that few people are asking while a considerable share of TiVo customers and current and future cord cutters are asking for a viable option to TiVo which Tablo could be if their marketing and product development department woke up and looked around. *HEY TABLO, we TiVo customers are here for the taking*...


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## Scooter Scott (Jun 1, 2015)

Its a network device that allows you to stream OTA. And it does it pretty well.


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

Scooter Scott said:


> Its a network device that allows you to stream OTA. And it does it pretty well.


At considerable cost itself and requiring more additional hardware expense than it should.
I guess the big questions for the Tablo is how reliable and convenient the guide will be and how long is *lifetime*?


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## Scooter Scott (Jun 1, 2015)

Yeah I'm still weighing my options. Might keep TiVo and let it die. 

But at the same time I look at getting rid of it now while it still has value to someone else.


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## eherberg (Feb 17, 2011)

Tablo's appeal is the easier way to support multiple devices. I already have the hard drive (multiple, in fact). I already have Roku's on the main TV and bedroom TV to overcome the shortcomings of just having TiVo's on them. So with a minimal investment, I can feed all of those devices plus more with recordings. I get that for your use-case this isn't ideal - but I definitely see the value. I don't use the Tablo myself, but do something similar with Plex. We're barely using TiVo anymore in my house. Everybody has naturally moved to Plex. They like the interface better -- and especially like the easier way we can now watch TV on a wider variety of devices. Being able to more easily move recordings off and on the hard drive has been a bonus. TiVo is primarily being used for chase-play now in our house. Depending on what happens with Mavrik this summer - we probably won't even do that by summer.


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## Scooter Scott (Jun 1, 2015)

While yes, it cost me something to get all of these devices. I already had them for other reasons. And the fact that the Roamio OTA is very unreliable when it comes to Hulu/Netflix streaming, I now use my other streaming devices before I even think about touching the Roamio.

I might just return the Tablo for the time being since I have tried it and know how it works. See how TiVo Mavrik is and make a decision then. I also am considering figuring out a way to use Plex once they support more devices. I think the use case I have can be solved by Tablo, but there are others in the game that just haven't put their product out to market yet.


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

just4tivo said:


> At considerable cost itself and requiring more additional hardware expense than it should.
> I guess the big questions for the Tablo is how reliable and convenient the guide will be and how long is *lifetime*?


The question could be "For TiVo how reliable and convenient the guide will be and how long is *lifetime*?" TiVo isn't the same company it was a year ago. What does the new TiVo consider as lifetime?


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

mschnebly said:


> The question could be "For TiVo how reliable and convenient the guide will be and how long is *lifetime*?" TiVo isn't the same company it was a year ago. What does the new TiVo consider as lifetime?


Tivo believes that Lifetime is less than 5 years. Just ask an Australian.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

atmuscarella said:


> Ya not much of a value proposition compared to a Roamio OTA if you primarily watch TV on a TV. This changes some if you want to watch TV on alternative devices and/or find the need for a Roku, Apple TV, etc. anyways.


Especially when lifetimed Roamio OTAs have been on sale for $300 or so at Amazon on a somewhat regular basis. That's just a no-brainer compared to any of these other OTA DVRs.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

Scooter Scott said:


> While yes, it cost me something to get all of these devices. I already had them for other reasons. And the fact that the Roamio OTA is very unreliable when it comes to Hulu/Netflix streaming, I now use my other streaming devices before I even think about touching the Roamio.


And if you don't have these devices, they cost around $40-$70, which is cheaper than a Mini. And they work better and do way more than the Tivo does. But as you state, most people have tablets, smartphones, notebooks, Chromebooks, etc. and probably a streaming device already, so you don't end up spending much on hardware.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

slowbiscuit said:


> Especially when lifetimed Roamio OTAs have been on sale for $300 or so at Amazon on a somewhat regular basis. That's just a no-brainer compared to any of these other OTA DVRs.


Just to be clear, I've only seen it on sale at Amazon at that price (a low of $305) for a couple of times the past 4 months or so (albeit, it was for a few weeks during late Dec./early Jan.; but then for less than a day (only half a day or so?) last week). I'm just not sure how regular that will be, if at all.


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

BobCamp1 said:


> ... most people have tablets, smartphones, notebooks, Chromebooks, etc. and probably a streaming device already, so you don't end up spending much on hardware.


On the contrary... MANY people don't stream, don't text, and don't Chromecast and want to watch FREE broadcast TV on that big screen TV they do have.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

tlc said:


> That's a great way to look at the costs. I've always been Lifetime because I compared the cost of Lifetime to monthly costs. But comparing monthly pricing to content costs makes it look especially bad.
> 
> HBO creates original content and makes it available to me along with lots of other content they've licensed. And we should pay the same amount for the data that tells us _what time shows are on?_ I understand they don't have as many subs as HBO and need to make some money, but the relative values are _way_ out of whack. That's clearly a "we've calculated what we can get away with" number.
> 
> We're still driving Premieres because the Bolt+ + Lifetime pricing is too much.


If you consider that Lifetime owners add no value to TIVo's bottom line and are in fact a cost center, you'd think that those with monthly subs would get more value for their money. No wonder lifetime has increased over time like it has. I suspect if their fan base wouldn't leave them in droves, lifetime service would have ended years ago. At this point those with LT subs are likely the only ones in numbers that are still buying and upgrading. It really has gotten to the point where TiVo on a monthly sub has no value.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

> It really has gotten to the point where TiVo on a monthly sub has no value.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Stormspace said:


> If you consider that Lifetime owners add no value to TIVo's bottom line and are in fact a cost center, you'd think that those with monthly subs would get more value for their money. No wonder lifetime has increased over time like it has. I suspect if their fan base wouldn't leave them in droves, lifetime service would have ended years ago. At this point those with LT subs are likely the only ones in numbers that are still buying and upgrading. It really has gotten to the point where TiVo on a monthly sub has no value.


?

Lifetime at $549 adds no value to TiVo's bottom line? LOL.

And TiVo on a monthly sub has no value? Ditto.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Like some others here, I'm just kind of waiting and seeing what my options are as we go along. I do like what I see happening over at Plex. I'm hoping that their DVR solution will exit beta this year and bring with it live TV viewing with trick play, plus DVR management in the TV app. If that happened, I may well invest in new hardware to use as a new Plex server (maybe a NAS), along with a Silicon Dust OTA network tuner. I *think* the Plex app on my new LG TV can accept direct play of OTA recordings (MPEG-TS container w/ MPEG-2 content) from the server, so no transcoding would be required. That said, I kinda hate to switch to a new OTA DVR solution this year if it turns out some of my local broadcasters start transmitting in ATSC 3.0 within the following year.

Maybe I'll just stick with my lifetime Roamio OTA until ATSC 3.0 gets implemented. At that point, of course, it would have far less resale value than it holds now. Oh well, I'm in no big hurry. What I have now works pretty well for me. My biggest gripe is that my LG TV (which I now use for Hulu, Netflix, Amazon, YouTube, VUDU, Crackle, Pandora, etc.) doesn't have apps for Showtime and HBO, which keeps my reliant on my old Apple TV 3. First-world problems, y'all.

Speaking of Plex, here's an article that talks about their strategic direction going forward. They aim to be their customers' central hub not only for local content but also streaming. Good to see a neutral, non-content-provider company focusing on the goal of total home entertainment integration.


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## eherberg (Feb 17, 2011)

just4tivo said:


> On the contrary... MANY people don't stream, don't text, and don't Chromecast and want to watch FREE broadcast TV on that big screen TV they do have.


I call those people my Grandparents. 

(It's just a joke ... before people's itchy reply finger needs scratchin').


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

just4tivo said:


> But the Tablo 4 tuner DVR *IS* an OTA device... that's what the 4 tuners are for. Why bring in content OTA and then not put it on a TV or two in the house?


Use a Roku? Or Apple TV? Tablo makes sense for people with a bunch of TVs that already have streaming devices. I don't like it because it transcodes, but for most people, the quality is fine, and it's cost effective and convenient.



> Perhaps Tablo could look into a USB to HDMI dongle and correct their short shortsightedness and give the cord cutter market a viable OTA option to the TiVo Roamio... they already have the four OTA tuners.


You can buy a Roku for $30. Why invest all that effort in putting the interface up on one TV when you can just use a $30 Roku to do it?

I'm invested in the TiVo system, and I like it, but I'll admit Tablo would be a better fit for a lot of people. You can set the whole thing up wirelessly with existing streaming boxes.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Bigg said:


> I'm invested in the TiVo system, and I like it, but I'll admit Tablo would be a better fit for a lot of people. You can set the whole thing up wirelessly with existing streaming boxes.


Which is why TiVo is rolling out the Mavrik this year.


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## e.h.Green (Mar 10, 2017)

Scooter Scott said:


> Yeah I'm still weighing my options. Might keep TiVo and let it die.



Where is discussion of TiVo Series 2 failure to add Digital Tuning Adapter support?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

e.h.Green said:


> Where is discussion of TiVo Series 2 failure to add Digital Tuning Adapter support?


You join this forum to post about a 10+ year old discontinued product? Really? In any event my Series 2 worked fine with my free OTA digital tuning adapter back in the day so not sure what you are talking about.


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## e.h.Green (Mar 10, 2017)

atmuscarella said:


> You join this forum to post about a 10+ year old discontinued product? Really? ..... so not sure what you are talking about.


The TiVo Series 2 (and other models) offered a "Product Lifetime Service" option, which had been honored by them for many years, updating the models of cable boxes supported. 

The service included allowing the TiVo to operate, updates for the program guide data, updates to the TiVo OS, access to all of the networking features, TiVo Desktop, and access to the online scheduling areas of TiVo's website.

They have recently changed its name and pricing, but a web page says they honor the agreements previously made.

Recently COX (and other cable companies) have introduced all digital service with a "DTA" which is incompatible with its Cisco (nee Scientific Atlanta) support. Also the Series 2 didn't have a cable card, now standard.

So I have asked them that TiVo should add the DTA to its supported cable boxes, either thru the IR Blaster or direct connection. Many other discontinued TiVo versions have threads or topics; where can Series 2 folks discuss this issue, without bothering those not interested?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

e.h.Green said:


> The TiVo Series 2 (and other models) offered a "Product Lifetime Service" option, which had been honored by them for many years, updating the models of cable boxes supported.
> 
> The service included allowing the TiVo to operate, updates for the program guide data, updates to the TiVo OS, access to all of the networking features, TiVo Desktop, and access to the online scheduling areas of TiVo's website.
> 
> ...


I would start a thread here asking if anyone knows of a work around to using what ever this DTA is you are talking about. The more info you give the more likely someone will be able to help you. Sounds like you are using Cox cable so mention that also mention the make, model, manufacture of the DTA. It sounds like it is a cable set top box so there should be some way to control it with a Series 2, if not others may have recommendations on what set top box to get from your cable company that can be used with a Series 2.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

e.h.Green said:


> Recently COX (and other cable companies) have introduced all digital service with a "DTA" which is incompatible with its Cisco (nee Scientific Atlanta) support. Also the Series 2 didn't have a cable card, now standard.
> 
> So I have asked them that TiVo should add the DTA to its supported cable boxes, either thru the IR Blaster or direct connection.


Given this thread from the ReplayTV community, one concern would be whether the DTA supports IR control, or if it's controllable via an RF remote only. As atmuscarella said, you'd need to provide more details on your specific equipment. And a new thread in the Help forum would probably be a good place to start.

edit: p.s. Checking other recent threads on PlanetReplay I came across someone else dealing with a Cox "mini" box, here. They seem to have found luck using "Evolution" code 1003. Not sure how that translates to what you'd find on a Series 2 TiVo.


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## twalsh22 (Aug 28, 2015)

eherberg said:


> I call those people my Grandparents.
> 
> (It's just a joke ... before people's itchy reply finger needs scratchin').


Hey, I resemble that.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

e.h.Green said:


> Where is discussion of TiVo Series 2 failure to add Digital Tuning Adapter support?


LOL, you win TCF's silliest first post of the year award. PLS does NOT mean that they provide software enhancements forever no matter how much you think it does. Guide data sure, but not software.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

slowbiscuit said:


> LOL, you win TCF's silliest first post of the year award. PLS does NOT mean that they provide software enhancements forever no matter how much you think it does.


At the same time and to its credit, TiVo has provided necessary software updates in the past, seemingly when not obligated to do so: at the time of the U.S. analog-digital OTA signal transition, TiVo provided a software update so that Series 1 and Series 2 boxes using OTA did not essentially become expensive bricks. I've always appreciated that and TiVo's loyalty to its customers, when TiVo instead could have said, in total self-interest, "Buy a new TiVo." (I've also wondered if TiVo was under any sort of governmental or contractual requirement to provide that update . . . .)

My guess is, with Series 2 boxes and digital tuning adapter support, TiVo simply has decided, enough is enough, given the age of the boxes. But I agree, 'twould be nice if matters went otherwise.


> Guide data sure, but not software.


Even there, sadly, I don't know that TiVo would agree. Witness what happened with Series 1 boxes with the transition to Rovi data.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Nothing is guaranteed, no matter how folks wish it to be so.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Aside from the unanswerable question of why someone want to be using a Series 2 with cable in the first place, it should be possible to find old cable boxes that TiVo is compatible with in most markets. SD is still MPEG-2 on every cable system I've heard of, and most MSOs probably haven't bought SD boxes in years, as there is little demand for them. Not sure about finding ones with RS-232C ports, but likely you could get a decent IR blaster for the Series 2 and make things work that way.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Bigg said:


> Aside from the unanswerable question of why someone want to be using a Series 2 with cable in the first place . . . .


E.g. a lifetime subscription.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Mikeguy said:


> E.g. a lifetime subscription.


They're so cheap they can't buy a Premiere off of eBay, but yet they shell out the dough for cable every month? Some people are very illogical. The only application I could see for an S2 at this point is someone who has OTA-only and doesn't really care much about broadcast TV. Maybe just to catch the weather when a giant snow-hurricane is bearing down on them.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Bigg said:


> They're so cheap they can't buy a Premiere off of eBay, but yet they shell out the dough for cable every month? Some people are very illogical. The only application I could see for an S2 at this point is someone who has OTA-only and doesn't really care much about broadcast TV. Maybe just to catch the weather when a giant snow-hurricane is bearing down on them.


Sorry, I'm the wrong audience for you: I'm one of those Series 2 owners (11+ years) with OTA and lifetime, and, yes, I _do_ like and "care much" about television (too much, lol), and I'm doing just fine, thank you.  (And, in fact, doing very well, as I see the yearly cost of my lifetime subscription investment go down every year, heh-heh.) But I've also entered the Roamio world as well.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Mikeguy said:


> Sorry, I'm the wrong audience for you: I'm one of those Series 2 owners (11+ years) with OTA and lifetime, and, yes, I _do_ like and "care much" about television (too much, lol), and I'm doing just fine, thank you.  (And, in fact, doing very well, as I see the yearly cost of my lifetime subscription investment go down every year, heh-heh.) But I've also entered the Roamio world as well.


We used to have a Series 2. It was a great machine, but it's time has long since passed. Anyone who doesn't have HD doesn't care about TV. It's no good for secondary TVs either, since it can't network with a Roamio/Premiere (maybe Series 2 and 3 for SD only?). At this point, the Series 2 is kind of useless. If you only catch a newscast once in awhile, I could see using it with a digital OTA adapter, but other than that, they are pretty useless.


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## Scooter Scott (Jun 1, 2015)

I ended up returning the Tablo for right now. I want to see what the DVR situation looks like this summer. I might get the tablo again...but it needs to get some updates to the usability.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Bigg said:


> We used to have a Series 2. It was a great machine, but it's time has long since passed. Anyone who doesn't have HD doesn't care about TV. It's no good for secondary TVs either, since it can't network with a Roamio/Premiere (maybe Series 2 and 3 for SD only?). At this point, the Series 2 is kind of useless. If you only catch a newscast once in awhile, I could see using it with a digital OTA adapter, but other than that, they are pretty useless.


Thank you for your personal judgement of others, as to whether they "care about TV."


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Bigg said:


> We used to have a Series 2. It was a great machine, but it's time has long since passed. Anyone who doesn't have HD doesn't care about TV. It's no good for secondary TVs either, since it can't network with a Roamio/Premiere (maybe Series 2 and 3 for SD only?).


The Series 2 does network with all TiVos if you use a RJ45 to USB adapter. I have xfered programs to my Bolt from a Series 2, no problem except slow.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

lessd said:


> The Series 2 does network with all TiVos if you use a RJ45 to USB adapter. I have xfered programs to my Bolt from a Series 2, no problem except slow.


That's.... interesting. It would only work for SD going the other way though, so it's kind of useless.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Bigg said:


> That's.... interesting. It would only work for SD going the other way though, so it's kind of useless.


Not at all, as there's SD content available--my local PBS station, for example, broadcasts shows in both SD and HD. And, as said, shows also can be transferred from the Series 2, for viewing and archiving.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Bigg said:


> That's.... interesting. It would only work for SD going the other way though, so it's kind of useless.


Not useless for me as I have this Humax Series 2 with a DVD built in connected to a Mini so if I have to use VOD I can record the program xfer it to my main TiVo (in SD ) and skip the ads, normally I leave the Humax unplugged.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

lessd said:


> Not useless for me as I have this Humax Series 2 with a DVD built in connected to a Mini so if I have to use VOD I can record the program xfer it to my main TiVo (in SD ) and skip the ads, normally I leave the Humax unplugged.


That sounds like a lot of work for not much benefit!


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Bigg said:


> That sounds like a lot of work for not much benefit!


At night before I go to bed I take a Mini to the cellar where everything is all set up, turn on both the Mini and Humax and go to bed. The next morning I make the OD recording, take me 3 min to set up, later that day I xfer the recording to my Bolt and return the Mini, and power down the Humax, I can't stand ads and if the last say 15 min of the program was interrupted by news or whatever is the only time I do this, once every few months or less as you can't fast forward to the last 15 min. using Comcast OD.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

lessd said:


> At night before I go to bed I take a Mini to the cellar where everything is all set up, turn on both the Mini and Humax and go to bed. The next morning I make the OD recording, take me 3 min to set up, later that day I xfer the recording to my Bolt and return the Mini, and power down the Humax, I can't stand ads and if the last say 15 min of the program was interrupted by news or whatever is the only time I do this, once every few months or less as you can't fast forward to the last 15 min. using Comcast OD.


That's a lot of effort! I'd just record stuff in the first place and avoid XoD. Or take a leak or get food or jump up and down during the commercials.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Bigg said:


> That's a lot of effort! I'd just record stuff in the first place and avoid XoD. Or take a leak or get food or jump up and down during the commercials.


And you call yourself a guy who cares about TV.


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## e.h.Green (Mar 10, 2017)

DQUOTE="atmuscarella, post: 11164765, member: 124394"]I would start a thread here asking if anyone knows of a work around to using what ever this DTA is you are talking about. The more info you give the more likely someone will be able to help you. Sounds like you are using Cox cable so mention that also mention the make, model, manufacture of the DTA. It sounds like it is a cable set top box so there should be some way to control it with a Series 2, if not others may have recommendations on what set top box to get from your cable company that can be used with a Series 2.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the reply. The Cox Cable company supplied box has the Cisco logo and name, but was informed by Cox it is a product of a sub-contractor (unnamed). Model name: DTA 250HD, Factory ID: 1288-206; Part No. DTA250-COX-K9.
Yes, is like a set-top box, with a remote which is different than older Cox boxes, URC-2220-R.
As far as I understand the problem, the IR codes used between the remote and the box are NON-STANDARD.
Not sure how to "create a post"; I thought this was what this is. HELP.


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

Try code 10014.


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