# Tribune



## stock (Jun 1, 2005)

Am I right in thinking Tribune are still suplying our EPG ?
Assuming we are taking about the same company, this could be worrying:

*Tribune newspaper group faces bankruptcy*
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/media/article5305550.ece

Hope I'm wrong


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

I don't know how connected they are - but the EPG is supplied by TMS - Tribune Media Services


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## smatson (Mar 14, 2001)

from the usa site

"The Tribune Company, owner of Tribune Media Services, and provider of guide data to TiVo, is declaring bankruptcy.

http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/20.../index.html?hp

What effect would failure of Tribune Media Services have on our TiVo service? Is there a backup data provider, just in case?"

o dear


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Going into chapter 11 does not mean they will cease trading; if parts of the business are profitbale they will continue, probably under new ownership.

Will probably trigger a break clause in the contract with TiVo though.

Should TiVo need to appoint a new supplier I would think that a new UK supplier would not be on their shopping list, so that could mark the end.


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## smatson (Mar 14, 2001)

And a happy new year to all


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

TCM2007 said:


> so that could mark the end.


I'm sure Pete will soon be along to confirm or deny


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

I never thought it would end this way...

Automan.


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## Glen (May 9, 2004)

I'd rather know as soon as possible. If tivo's no longer going to be getting data, i need to make other arrangements.


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

A better link


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

RichardJH said:


> I'm sure Pete will soon be along to confirm or deny


Of course, he will neither confirm _nor_ deny. He will probably, simply make a load of wild speculations based nothing but his imagination


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Well the methods for getting alternative guide data into tivo have long ago been perfected by our Australian cousins, and here in the UK we do already have very nice free XML data from the radiotimes available...

..and no, I haven't played with that personally yet...


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## martink0646 (Feb 8, 2005)

mikerr said:


> Well the methods for getting alternative guide data into tivo have long ago been perfected by our Australian cousins, and here in the UK we do already have very nice free XML data from the radiotimes available...
> 
> ..and no, I haven't played with that personally yet...


Mike,

In a hypothectical world, a future where TiVo have withdrawn on the back of TMS going bust, how long do you estimate it would take you to put something together?

I realise you haven't even looked at it yet but I was just wondering if it would be days, weeks or months.

Cheers,

Martin


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Some experiments were done a while back and it didn't seem to be too hard. However a) you would not get fully reliable functionality as the series metadata would be fudged and b) only those with networked TiVos could use it.

I wouldn't panic; Tribune have said it wil be business as usual for the moment.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> Should TiVo need to appoint a new supplier I would think that a new UK supplier would not be on their shopping list, so that could mark the end.


It seems obvious there is still a requirement for the data service in question so the most likely outcome is that Tivo and its client based is absorbed in to a rival supplier and that existing staff go on producing the data working for the rival for the time being.

Its pretty likely any successor data supplier to Tivo will basically be the same staff working for a new employer. As Tivo itself is not in Chapter 11 they will obviously want the EPG service to continue. The only danger is how much real cost supplying the UK EPG data adds on to Tivo's total contract price from the new replacement supplier to Tribune and whether this is like the proverbial straw and the camel.


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## Heuer (Mar 15, 2004)

Pete (have you really registered 77 times?)

You are making the assumption a "rival supplier" both exists and would want to take on the existing Tribune commitments. Chapter 11 protects TMS from debtors while they try to find a rescue angel. In these troubled times it is going to be hard to find one with two intact wings. They will need to make huge economies and, I would guess, the UK EPG will be one of the first casualties. There are about 25,000 UK TiVo users, many of whom will have lifetime subs, so the revenue stream is insignificant. I reckon TiVo will use this as an excuse to put the final nail in the UK coffin, something I say with heavy heart if only for the complete hassle of setting up alternatives. If anybody thinks otherwise please throw us a lifeline!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Heuer said:


> I reckon TiVo will use this as an excuse to put the final nail in the UK coffin, something I say with heavy heart if only for the complete hassle of setting up alternatives. If anybody thinks otherwise please throw us a lifeline!


Unfortunately defeatist posts such as your own are only likely to greatly increase the prospects of this happening.

Have you not considered that Tivo USA also need a continuing data source, are not bankrupt and have a customer base providing income. Therefore it is sure to make sense to let the existing Tribune data supply operation carry on in administration for some time to come at least until a Tribune competitor can get their act together to supply Tivo (a new customer bringing more income with it) in the data format Tivo require. I am sure Tivo will be urgently negotiating with the Administrators to make sure that this is the case.

As for competitors we already know there are a number of alternate sources of EPG data supply to Tribune. Although whether any of them offer as sophisticated a product as Tribune does or has the capability to fully support Tivo's EPG data needs is clearly another matter.

Having worked in the database field it is obvious to me that TMSIDs for instance have a significant intellectual property value as they ensure a continuing revenue stream from services that use them. That being so it seems likely that a rival EPG data supplier will want to at least take over most of the intellectual property rights connected with the Tribune EPG service and in particular the use of TMSIDs and other related propietary coding systems.

As to having to switch to another device unfortunately non Sky Freesat still has inferior functionality with respect to Wishlists and only having one week's advance data instead of three in particular. Also Freesat won't we be able to receive or record programs on Sky when I subscribe to it to record the Dakar rally for a month each year.


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## Heuer (Mar 15, 2004)

Ahh - so it is all my fault for being a defeatist, a rather glib response I feel. Providing a TiVo EPG is not a social service and is not covered under 'care in the community'. Hard business decisions need to be taken to protect the US service so it seems fairly obvious where the axe will fall if it has to. Thousands are losing their jobs, hard times are ahead and you are clinging on to the viability of a ten year old gadget. Please take a sip from the cup marked 'realism' and look beyond your own needs. The EPG IP only has a value if there is a willing buyer and with so many free sources available the business case (for the UK at least) is going to be difficult to prove. Personally I do not want my Tivo's to fail but the omens are not good and I speak as an entrepreneur, employer and Company Director.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Heuer said:


> Personally I do not want my Tivo's to fail but the omens are not good and I speak as an entrepreneur, employer and Company Director.


It is the lack of judgement many other company directors that is to blame for most of the current worldwide financial collapse so I really don't see how being a company director is proof of anything in terms of someone's judgement or common sense.

Also Tivo only launched eight years ago and not six and I and many fellow Tivo users only brought our Tivos six years ago.

The fact of the matter is that Tivo Inc needs a continuing data service in the US and has a large customer base using a platform that cannot accept a new data source from elsewhere at the drop of a hat so something will have to happen to keep a data supply to Tivo Inc's customers in the current format going for the time being.


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## Heuer (Mar 15, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> It is the lack of judgement many other company directors that is to blame for most of the current worldwide financial collapse so I really don't see how being a company director is proof of anything in terms of someone's judgement or common sense..


Errr - I was not trying to prove blame, common sense or judgment - just giving one persons perspective, my own. My wife is despairing TiVo may no longer function so we are on the same side Mr Pete77, but after today's news I am no longer optimistic about TiVo UK's longevity or viability.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> The fact of the matter is that Tivo Inc needs a continuing data service in the US and has a large customer base using a platform that cannot accept a new data source from elsewhere at the drop of a hat so something will have to happen to keep a data supply to Tivo Inc's customers in the current format going for the time being.


TiVo will find a new supplier for the US market should that be necessary, that is obvious. Whether it makes any sense for them to source a UK EPG under those circumstances is another matter entirely. It's at best going to be a very low priority for them; as we've seen with suggestions, spending money on maintaining the UK service is not something they want to do.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> It is the lack of judgement many other company directors that is to blame for most of the current worldwide financial collapse.


And it's the good judgement of other company directors which means there is an economy at all!


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

TCM2007 said:


> TiVo will find a new supplier for the US market should that be necessary, that is obvious. Whether it makes any sense for them to source a UK EPG under those circumstances is another matter entirely. It's at best going to be a very low priority for them; as we've seen with suggestions, spending money on maintaining the UK service is not something they want to do.


I'd disagree. If they don't supply a new service then it means that the new Nero TiVo service is not coming to the UK. If they do, I think that'd be a reasonable hint that things are looking up.


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## Hustiniano (Nov 4, 2002)

kitschcamp said:


> I'd disagree. If they don't supply a new service then it means that the new Nero TiVo service is not coming to the UK. If they do, I think that'd be a reasonable hint that things are looking up.


and that would be good news....


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

kitschcamp said:


> I'd disagree. If they don't supply a new service then it means that the new Nero TiVo service is not coming to the UK. If they do, I think that'd be a reasonable hint that things are looking up.


Sadly the feedback I've had from Nero is that it isn't coming to the UK.


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

If that's the case, it's a real shame. Quality alternatives are thin on the ground. Over the last month or so I've been trying everything I could get my mits on; SageTV was shockingly awful for a pay product, MediaPortal wasn't stable, and GBPVR wouldn't even install! There is a real gap in the market for such a product.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

It's hard to comete with Media Center, which is effectively free and built in to virtually all new PCs.


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

But only if you want to use Vista... That's a show stopper for me. The overheads it needs are too high; I'm much happier using XP with it's lower resource needs. I can record 5 satellite channels at once and watch a HD or SD recording at the same time on XP. Could I do that on Vista with the same spec machine? I doubt it.

And, I have to say, I'm gobsmacked at what a fantastic job even a relatively mid-budget NVidia video card does at upscaling SD to 1080P with their built in hardware MPEG and H264 decoders and scalers. 

The only thing I'm missing is a "pretty" front end at the moment for recordings. I can cope with that, especially for replacing "TiVo2" which I'd modified to record from Freesat and Canal Digital, so there were no listings for it anyway. With DVBViewer I've got a full EPG for both, and it's ideal for managing clashes. 

When/If TiVo1 expires due to service issues, I'll probably re-think again, but until that time, I'll manage.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Sure, there will be some who want to keep XP (or Linux) but when almost every new Pc ships with a free product, it's hard to sell a paid-for one!

No idea on whether Vista could handle that (I'm kinda surprised XP can - six high volume streams of hard disk access would be the pinch point I'd have thought).

It can certainly handle recoding two streams atone and playing two streams at the same time on a fairly old now Pentium D setup.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> Sure, there will be some who want to keep XP (or Linux) but when almost every new Pc ships with a free product, it's hard to sell a paid-for one!


And on the new Intel Atom equipped webbook PCs with built in mobile 3G connectivity that operating system is still Windows XP Home and not Windows Vista. Reason being Vista is too slow and has too much memory overhead and uses too much battery power for these kinds of brand new PC.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Yes, but what does that matter as you couldn't realistically use a NetBook as a DVR though could you?

Oh, right. You were turning the thread OT and into a XP v Vista argument. Sorry. Please carry on


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Yes, but what does that matter as you couldn't realistically use a NetBook as a DVR though could you?


No it was just the TCM implied that all new PCs shipping with a Microsoft operating sytem used Vista whereas the growing trend seems to be against that.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> Vista is too slow and has too much memory overhead and uses too much battery power





Pete77 said:


> the growing trend seems to be against that.


Pete's back! With added bait!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ColinYounger said:


> Pete's back! With added bait!


The UK part of the forum seems to have been flagging lately following all the bad news about Tribune and Suggestions so someone has to try and help keep it going.


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## ...coolstream (Dec 10, 2005)

Media Centre can be used with XP too. My old single core HT was supplied with that version of XP and it's worth shopping around even if you would end up having to re-install an OS that is nearing its 'sell by' date.

Mine still receives Microsoft updates and very seldom has problems probably because all it does is function as a PVR with dual tuner capability and cancer research in its idle time.


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## Pugwash (May 23, 2003)

The budget PC's often ship with Vista Basic, a cripple. Certainly no media doodah. None of the business editions have it either. If you decide to build or buy, you're paying over &#163;100 for your operating system to get the software, maybe &#163;30 per tuner? I build enough PC's for my own use to know you won't get a sub-&#163;300 PC capable or recording HD-TV.
Not sure where I was going with this...

Anyway my Foxsat HDR cost &#163;300 and I'm happy


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> No it was just the TCM implied that all new PCs shipping with a Microsoft operating sytem used Vista whereas the growing trend seems to be against that.


I was very careful to say "almost" Pete, just for your benefit!

Atom based Netbooks are perfectly capable of running Vista - it's a powerful little processor - but as they are built down to a price they often choose a cheaper OS which takes up less "disc" space.

Netbooks aside, I'd question that there's any "growing trend" against PCs shipping with Vista.

And as Carl so rightly says, netbooks don't really come in to the discussion we were having about PC based PVR software!


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

ColinYounger said:


> Pete's back! With added bait!


Indeed. He's very good baiter. A master at it, one might say 

(That joke never gets old!)


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

TCM2007 said:


> No idea on whether Vista could handle that (I'm kinda surprised XP can - six high volume streams of hard disk access would be the pinch point I'd have thought).


Basically that happens if there is a BBC1, BBC2, BBC 4 and Five clash on one transponder, and Canal Digital on another, so really about 1 full transponder. I was quite surprised myself it can manage it.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Similar to freeview multiplexes then.

A single freeview tuner can record BBC1, BBC2, BBC3, CBBC simultaneously (all on the  same transport stream) 
- but no current PVRs take advantage of that at all.


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## britcub (Jan 19, 2004)

mikerr said:


> Similar to freeview multiplexes then.
> 
> A single freeview tuner can record BBC1, BBC2, BBC3, CBBC simultaneously (all on the  same transport stream)
> - but no current PVRs take advantage of that at all.


Without being Pete-ish, CBBC and BBC3 can't be recorded at the same time


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Haha, well they never clash anyway do they


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