# Is the $19.99/month "deal" here for good?



## comma splice (Feb 4, 2010)

*The $99 down, $19.99/month (w/ one-year commitment) "offer" on the Premiere appears to have been extended indefinitely.*

If you remember, the offer was originally set to expire at the end of February, then was "extended" through March 31.

Now that it's April 1, the "offer expires" language has disappeared from http://www.tivo.com/.

Any thoughts? Seems like any hope for product lifetime or longer-than-a-month payment plans is gone, at least for the foreseeable future.


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## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

This was obviously the goal from the very beginning... I guess I don't care as long as lifetime is still offered and they actually use the new funds to, I don't know IMPROVE THE DAMN PRODUCT?

Where the hell is Hulu? Where's our streaming MRV, or unified NPL, HD menus?


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## arw03 (Apr 1, 2011)

comma said:


> Any thoughts? Seems like any hope for product lifetime or longer-than-a-month payment plans is gone, at least for the foreseeable future.


I think the other plans are still available, just not for immediate purchase. Gotta buy one [full price] with whatever plan, and change it over when you get it.

At least, I really hope that's the case...


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

comma said:


> *The $99 down, $19.99/month (w/ one-year commitment) "offer" on the Premiere appears to have been extended indefinitely.*
> 
> If you remember, the offer was originally set to expire at the end of February, then was "extended" through March 31.
> 
> ...


Think how hard it will be to change back. I foresee the sub $99 Premiere plus $19.99/mo service being all that is available from retailers for some time to come. Anything else will need to be purchased from TiVo.com directly or through a ebay reseller. I would bet we will see a new model before we see the price/service policy change and then it still might not change. Really depends on how well TiVo thinks the $99/$19.99 deal is going. They can always market upgrade deals to to existing costumers through TiVo.com or through our TiVos directly.

Thanks,


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Yep, I think the holiday deal is here to stay. Think of it positively: _It's like it's Christmas year-round now!_

I have two Lifetime Premieres now. Fortunately (and unfortunately), I think they're going to be the last Tivos I ever buy unless the company makes some radical turnaround from the current trend.


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## vurbano (Apr 20, 2004)

I think they are shooting themselves in the foot with the normal DVR user who can put nothing down and get a multi room DVR from their cable company that streams to other boxes for around 20 bucks a month. Why would they pay an extra 99 bucks? So they could not get on demand services from their cable company? So they would not be able to transfer shows back and forth since their CP flags are on? I just see no advantage. I have 3 Premieres I upgraded to lifetime and 1 TB drives (DIY) but the only reason for them is because FIOS is protection free for me for now. Once that flag goes on they go on ebay and the party is over.


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## larrs (May 2, 2005)

It accomplishes a lot for them. I hate it for me, but I can see why they are doing it. If it gets new customers to buy due to the low entry, then so be it. From my perspective, I have an HD I would like to upgrade but the upgrade offer stinks in that I pay for the box (more than I would likely find on fleabay) and then have to choose a plan on the box that is more than the current $6.95 I am paying on the HD. My only choice is ebay and HOPING I will be able to swap it for my HD box.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

larrs said:


> It accomplishes a lot for them. I hate it for me, but I can see why they are doing it. If it gets new customers to buy due to the low entry, then so be it. From my perspective, I have an HD I would like to upgrade but the upgrade offer stinks in that I pay for the box (more than I would likely find on fleabay) and then have to choose a plan on the box that is more than the current $6.95 I am paying on the HD. My only choice is ebay and HOPING I will be able to swap it for my HD box.


Some people have said they were able to buy a Premiere at the upgrade cost and retain the $6.95/mo service cost. You have to call TiVo and buy through a CR.

If you try it out post back how it worked out.

Good Luck,


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

vurbano said:


> I think they are shooting themselves in the foot with the normal DVR user who can put nothing down and get a multi room DVR from their cable company that streams to other boxes for around 20 bucks a month. Why would they pay an extra 99 bucks? So they could not get on demand services from their cable company? So they would not be able to transfer shows back and forth since their CP flags are on? I just see no advantage. I have 3 Premieres I upgraded to lifetime and 1 TB drives (DIY) but the only reason for them is because FIOS is protection free for me for now. Once that flag goes on they go on ebay and the party is over.


So you think TiVo would be better off providing their boxes and service at a bigger loss than they are now? The cable and Satellite companies use DVRs as loss leaders nothing TiVo can do about that. If you live someplace where a great loss leader deal is being offered lucky you.

Thanks,


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

atmuscarella said:


> So you think TiVo would be better off providing their boxes and service at a bigger loss than they are now?


They're still selling boxes and service at a loss? What exactly is keeping them afloat then?

Tivo will be successful to the extent that they market a "better" box than the cable companies. It's clear that they cannot compete on price, so they have to compete on features. They still have the edge, but the total lack of innovation that is the Premiere tells me that edge is fast getting dull.

The moment cableco boxes start having more features than the Tivo is the moment people stop buying Tivos.

I still think there is a market for a deluxe box, along the lines of the S3 with front panel display, maybe a sdram slot for viewing pictures, bundled bluetooth remote, built in wireless, things like that. Such a box could sell at a higher price. Unfortunately, the Premiere is not that box. not even close. I keep trying to figure out what exactly differentiates it from the THDs that I owned before I upgraded. Half an HDUI is about it.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

smbaker said:


> I still think there is a market for a deluxe box, along the lines of the S3 with front panel display, maybe a sdram slot for viewing pictures, bundled bluetooth remote, built in wireless, things like that. Such a box could sell at a higher price. Unfortunately, the Premiere is not that box. not even close. I keep trying to figure out what exactly differentiates it from the THDs that I owned before I upgraded. Half an HDUI is about it.


It does have a somewhat faster processor, of course (or two, if TiVo ever gets multithreading working on both of them). And for OTA use, I find the demodulators in Premiere better than those in my TiVo HD. On a couple of local stations with severe multipath, I get dramatically fewer uncorrected errors.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

L David Matheny said:


> It does have a somewhat faster processor, of course (or two, if TiVo ever gets multithreading working on both of them).


This was one of my reasons for upgrading from the THD to the Premiere. The other reason being the HDUI. Unfortunately, the HDUI is both incomplete and runs slower than my THD's SDUI. Tivo has to do better if they want to compete. Whatever success they are having now is solely due to everyone else being worse.

The real advantage the Premiere did have is faster MRV times, and pyTivo is something I use frequently. Still, I feel like I was the victim of a bit of a bait and switch here. I knew of the flaws last year, but expected a software update to address them. Admittedly, my own fault, but* a mistake I shall not make twice*.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

smbaker said:


> They're still selling boxes and service at a loss? What exactly is keeping them afloat then?


Yes they still do not have positive earnings, there income statement showed about a 84.5 million dollar loss for last year.

What keeps them afloat is a much more complicated question. I don't know enough to completely explain it correctly but they have generated significant amounts of cash by selling stock over the years. If I remember correctly their stock price was in the $50+ ranch a decade ago (it's about $9 now) and much of the cash generated by stock sales was used for operating & development and invested for future operating & development.


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## jediphish (Oct 13, 2006)

comma said:


> *The $99 down, $19.99/month (w/ one-year commitment) "offer" on the Premiere appears to have been extended indefinitely.*
> 
> If you remember, the offer was originally set to expire at the end of February, then was "extended" through March 31.
> 
> ...


I believe the original offer was supposed to expire December 31, then they pushed it to January 31, then they extended the "deal" another month to the end of February, then ... wha? - huh? - they extended the pricing again to the end of March, and, whoa? now it just appears that it was all a ruse - they fully intended this to be the new pricing altogether and used the "special" as a means to try to get people to sign up, making people think the deal wouldn't be available in the future.

Good sales tactic - sure - good business decision - not so much. Not that way good companies do business.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

jediphish said:


> I believe the original offer was supposed to expire December 31, then they pushed it to January 31, then they extended the "deal" another month to the end of February, then ... wha? - huh? - they extended the pricing again to the end of March, and, whoa? now it just appears that it was all a ruse - they fully intended this to be the new pricing altogether and used the "special" as a means to try to get people to sign up, making people think the deal wouldn't be available in the future.
> 
> Good sales tactic - sure - good business decision - not so much. Not that way good companies do business.


TiVo can't easily go back on their pricing because of the number of TP sold at under $100, I will bet some people have stocked up on $80+ TPs waiting for the price to go back up to $299 with Lifetime back at $299/$399, I purchased one just for spare parts for my 4 working TPs.
Lifetime service has been a loss for TiVo, you can still see people on this form using Lifetime Series 1s!! over 10 years old, for non HD recording connected to a cable box it still does the job with a hard drive change every 4 to 6 years. Who would have thought that some electronics would still be useful 10+ years after purchase.


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## comma splice (Feb 4, 2010)

lessd said:


> TiVo can't easily go back on their pricing because of the number of TP sold at under $100, I will bet some people have stocked up on $80+ TPs waiting for the price to go back up to $299 with Lifetime back at $299/$399...


Interesting point.

But I bet they have some way of knowing which TPs were sold during the $99.99 MSRP window so they can prevent what you're talking about.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

comma said:


> Interesting point.
> 
> But I bet they have some way of knowing which TPs were sold during the $99.99 MSRP window so they can prevent what you're talking about.


TiVo has no idea from the TSN who sold what to whom and when, if the TSN had that information than the brouhaha that took place after 11/14/2010 would not have required sending in invoices of when and what price you purchased your TP, also if they changed the pricing a place like Amazon, and other stores, do not keep track of what TSN goes with what order, they just take the TiVo off the shelf, I have friends purchase from Amazon over a month apart and the older order had a newer mfg date than the newer order, TiVos are just boxes until you activate the unit. Nobody has every reported that TiVo had told them that your TPs TSN has any control on what service plan you can get. IE on day zero you purchase a $99 TP from Best Buy pick one out from the shelf, on day 1 you purchase another TP for $299 from Best Buy, do you really think from day 0 to day 1 Best Buy would make a record of every TP TSN in all their stores and send that information to TiVo to enter some computer program at TiVo, not likely. And who would get the extra $200, would Best Buy have to pay X $ to TiVo for all their existing stock ? This problem would go for all retail stores that sell the TP. The current pricing will be with us for a long time or when TiVo makes a model change (like a Series 4a (we fixed the HDUI) or a Series 5 )


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

I am with lessd on this one (see my 1st post in this thread - #4).

It is also fairly clear that TiVo uses woot.com to clear inventory and for all we know also uses ebay.

Authorized Retailers will likely stay with the $99/$19.99/mo deals unit TiVo has a model change. If TiVo needs to move units another way it will be through upgrade offers, woot.com, maybe ebay, & TiVo.com.

Thanks,


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

lessd said:


> TiVo has no idea from the TSN who sold what to whom and when


When I called to get lifetime service on my Woot box, I just gave the CSR the TSN and she said "I see this is a box from Woot, so it does qualify for lifetime service." I didn't have to provide any kind of invoice or proof that it wasn't a subsidized box. How would they know that if the TSN wasn't somehow tied to whether it's a subsidized box or not?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

generaltso said:


> When I called to get lifetime service on my Woot box, I just gave the CSR the TSN and she said "I see this is a box from Woot, so it does qualify for lifetime service." I didn't have to provide any kind of invoice or proof that it wasn't a subsidized box. How would they know that if the TSN wasn't somehow tied to whether it's a subsidized box or not?


They know what units that were sold through woot.com because TiVo was using woot.com to liquidate their inventory of refurbished units. I would bet that the units were actual shipped by TiVo directly to the buyers. New units sold in stores would require the stores send TiVo the TSN of each unit sold and included when the unit was sold - not likely to happen.

Thanks,


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

generaltso said:


> When I called to get lifetime service on my Woot box, I just gave the CSR the TSN and she said "I see this is a box from Woot, so it does qualify for lifetime service." I didn't have to provide any kind of invoice or proof that it wasn't a subsidized box. How would they know that if the TSN wasn't somehow tied to whether it's a subsidized box or not?


Refurb TiVos have a code in the TSN IE 746-001x-xxxx-xxxx, it's the 3rd 1 in the TSN that tells TiVo its a refurb unit.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I think the $19.95 service will be around as long as there are subsidiized Premieres being sold.
TiVo could end the "promotion" and only sell full priced Premieres from here on out, but they would still require the subsidized boxes (based on the TSN) to have the $19.95 rate.

Personally, I think TiVo is trying to get people used to the $19.95 rate so it's less of an impact when they announce that it will become the standard rate (all the more reason to get lifetime NOW ).


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## jdfs (Oct 21, 2002)

I hope so. I hope the free plus $19.99 is here to stay too in the future so I can keep getting new ones every two years like cell phones.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

jdfs said:


> I hope so. I hope the free plus $19.99 is here to stay too in the future so I can keep getting new ones every two years like cell phones.


That is a great deal to spend $480 every two years and then get a new TiVo OR if you are an existing TiVo customer you could spend $470 and get a new TP with Lifetime and after two years, if you don't want a new TiVo, just keep your TP, if you do want a new one you will get back at least $300 to $400 by selling your old TP with PLS.


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## bbaucom (Apr 18, 2011)

When I signed up, the promo was $19.99/mo w\ the box for free.

I would have rather gotten the lifetime, but at the time I preferred to not have to spend $600+ up front.


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## TWinbrook46636 (Feb 9, 2008)

So are all Premiere/Premiere XL TiVos being sold currently locked into the $19.96/mo 1-year commitment? I see a lot of major resellers selling them at around $99/$249 but some mention the commitment and others don't.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

TWinbrook46636 said:


> So are all Premiere/Premiere XL TiVos being sold currently locked into the $19.96/mo 1-year commitment? I see a lot of major resellers selling them at around $99/$249 but some mention the commitment and others don't.


Yes they all require the $19.99/mo service with a 1-year commitment. You can buy a new Premiere from tivo.com that does not require the $19.99/mo service but you will pay more for the Premiere.

Thanks,


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## SMWinnie (Aug 17, 2002)

Has anyone gotten a definitive answer on whether a $99 premiere can be switched to a different plan (Annual/MSD/PLS/whatever) after the initial one-year commitment?

We're still, what, seven months away from the first wave of renewals?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

SMWinnie said:


> Has anyone gotten a definitive answer on whether a $99 premiere can be switched to a different plan (Annual/MSD/PLS/whatever) after the initial one-year commitment?
> 
> We're still, what, seven few months away from the first wave of renewals?


This was a subject of great debate. Not sure if it really is resolved, it depends on what certain words in TiVo's service agreement actually mean.

What I believe based on what I have read is that if a person does nothing TiVo will continue to bill them at $19.99/month.

I also believe if a person calls TiVo they will likely be able to cut another deal as long as they are willing to say they are going to cancel the service as it appears the $19.99/mo service requirement is release if the service is canceled after the 1 year commitment period.

Thanks,


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

atmuscarella said:


> I also believe if a person calls TiVo...


I don't understand why TiVo removed the online ability to schedule a new plan when the commitment was satisfied. It made it so much easier for the user to choose a new plan (if wanted) months ahead of time...


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

orangeboy said:


> I don't understand why TiVo removed the online ability to schedule a new plan when the commitment was satisfied. It made it so much easier for the user to choose a new plan (if wanted) months ahead of time...


For TPs that cost $99 and under is no other official plan, this November when the first of the $19.99 plans ends we will see what if anything TiVo will do about any lower cost rental/lifetime plans. Amazon had new TP for $40 something, we all know the parts cost is much more than that, without a TiVo Sub somebody taking a big $ hit.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

lessd said:


> For TPs that cost $99 and under is no other official plan, this November when the first of the $19.99 plans ends we will see what if anything TiVo will do about any lower cost rental/lifetime plans. Amazon had new TP for $40 something, we all know the parts cost is much more than that, without a TiVo Sub somebody taking a big $ hit.


Assuming that $19.99 x 12 months _doesn't_ cover a Premiere's costs, a hit will still be felt starting November 2011 if those $19.99 subscriptions don't get renewed, with TiVo no longer able to recoup any loses through a more affordable subscription rate. I would think it be in TiVo's best interest to allow choosing a $12.95/$199/$399 plan online and ahead of time over risk of subscribers cancelling when the commitment is satisfied, basically assuring in a loss.

The $19.99 rate was/is a good gimmick to attract new customers, but it sure doesn't seem like a good long-term plan...


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

It will be interesting what the plan will be if there is a 4 tuner server coming as rumors indicate.


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## kturcotte (Dec 9, 2002)

orangeboy said:


> Assuming that $19.99 x 12 months _doesn't_ cover a Premiere's costs, a hit will still be felt starting November 2011 if those $19.99 subscriptions don't get renewed, with TiVo no longer able to recoup any loses through a more affordable subscription rate. I would think it be in TiVo's best interest to allow choosing a $12.95/$199/$399 plan online and ahead of time over risk of subscribers cancelling when the commitment is satisfied, basically assuring in a loss.
> 
> The $19.99 rate was/is a good gimmick to attract new customers, but it sure doesn't seem like a good long-term plan...


I would *THINK* they'd let you switch. Look at the figures. After paying $100 for the Premiere, after a year they've only gotten $339.88 out of the customer vs the $455.40 they'd get on the "Regular" plan. My guess is it will automatically continue at $19.99 unless you call and "threaten" to cancel. If they continue to INSIST on $19.99 monthly, they're just ASKING for trouble.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8482982#post8482982


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

orangeboy said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8482982#post8482982


That could just refer to being able to go from one year prepaid to monthly or to two years prepaid. I don't think it has to do with actual price.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

The reality is that we just don't know what will happen until later this year. I find it hard to believe that people won't be able to switch plans after their commitment is up.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

slowbiscuit said:


> The reality is that we just don't know what will happen until later this year. I find it hard to believe that people won't be able to switch plans after their commitment is up.


Yup exactly what I think.

Thanks,


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

slowbiscuit said:


> The reality is that we just don't know what will happen until later this year. I find it hard to believe that people won't be able to switch plans after their commitment is up.


Switch to what plan, I just tested activating an old Series 2 TiVo on my account, the only plan their web sight offered was the $12.95/month, TiVo has taken away all mention of yearly plans and Lifetime plans (except for the TP upgrade offer with Lifetime). I think Lifetime Service will be gone for good (for a new customer) except for special upgrade programs TiVo may offer existing customers.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

lessd said:


> Switch to what plan, I just tested activating an old Series 2 TiVo on my account, the only plan their web sight offered was the $12.95/month, TiVo has taken away all mention of yearly plans and Lifetime plans (except for the TP upgrade offer with Lifetime). I think Lifetime Service will be gone for good (for a new customer) except for special upgrade programs TiVo may offer existing customers.


You need to talk to someone paying monthly or annually and see what options they have.

I have one DVR I pay monthly ($6.95). There is a button where I can "Schedule a Future Plan" if I click it I have 4 options: 

$19.99/mo
$9.95/mo with available MSD - $12.95 without MSD
$99/year with available MSD - $129 without MSD
$299 lifetime with available MSD - $399 without MSD 

Of course none of them make any sense given what I am paying but I am assume the button appears when your commitment period is over.

Thanks,


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## kupe (Apr 10, 2003)

comma said:


> *The $99 down, $19.99/month (w/ one-year commitment) "offer" on the Premiere appears to have been extended indefinitely.*


Does a "multi-Tivo Discount" figure into any of the above? We currently have 3 Tivos- the Lifetime unit is a Series 2. We also have a Tivo HD on monthly for $9.95 and another Series 2 on monthly for $6.95 (grandfathered).

Would my monthly payment if we add a Premiere really be $19.99 even with our Multi-Tivo discount?

Thanks gang!

Kupe


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

kupe said:


> Does a "multi-Tivo Discount" figure into any of the above? We currently have 3 Tivos- the Lifetime unit is a Series 2. We also have a Tivo HD on monthly for $9.95 and another Series 2 on monthly for $6.95 (grandfathered).
> 
> Would my monthly payment if we add a Premiere really be $19.99 even with our Multi-Tivo discount?
> 
> ...


Yes it would if you purchased a sub $99 unit.

You should however have various upgrade offers that are much better deals over all. Given what you stated you should be able to buy a Premiere with lifetime for $469 or get a Premiere for $199 and pay $9.95/mo service fee. Check your account on TiVo.com

Good Luck,


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## kupe (Apr 10, 2003)

atmuscarella said:


> Yes it would if you purchased a sub $99 unit.
> 
> You should however have various upgrade offers that are much better deals over all. Given what you stated you should be able to buy a Premiere with lifetime for $469 or get a Premiere for $199 and pay $9.95/mo service fee. Check your account on TiVo.com
> 
> Good Luck,


Thanks so much- I looked at the Tivo site and I can indeed get the Premiere for $199 and $9.95/month. The Lifetime option was actually $498.99- $199.99 for the Premiere plus $299 for the Lifetime.

Kupe


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

kupe said:


> Thanks so much- I looked at the Tivo site and I can indeed get the Premiere for $199 and $9.95/month. The Lifetime option was actually $498.99- $199.99 for the Premiere plus $299 for the Lifetime.
> 
> Kupe


Your welcome glad to help. If you have units with lifetime and monthly service the upgrade offers are differant for each. Only lifetime units have the $469 deal.

Good Luck,


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