# DirecTV Installer: "Hey, I got this box that can get you all the channels"



## Queasy1 (Jan 8, 2005)

So, after many a scheduling screwup, I finally get DirecTV over to the new house to do an install. After the installer finishes everything he tells me about a box he is willing to sell me for $400 that will get me all the channels (PPV, Movie channels, etc).

I couldn't help but chuckle. Nice side racket he's got going.


----------



## tvl76 (Oct 5, 2005)

Did you buy one ?
Is he willing to show you how and if it works ?


----------



## Sartori (Feb 5, 2005)

ahh, you should report the dude....


----------



## Queasy1 (Jan 8, 2005)

tvl76 said:


> Did you buy one ?
> Is he willing to show you how and if it works ?


LOL heck no. If it is what I think it is, $400 is way too much anyways.

I should have asked him exactly what this magical box is though.


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Sartori said:


> ahh, you should report the dude....


Leave the guy alone. A squealer is the lowest form of humanity.


----------



## Queasy1 (Jan 8, 2005)

Billy66 said:


> Leave the guy alone. A squealer is the lowest form of humanity.


Heh...I could have always blackmailed him.

"So, you wanna give me the box for say $50 and I'll promise not to call DirecTV and your supervisor?"

LOL


----------



## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

Billy66 said:


> Leave the guy alone. A squealer is the lowest form of humanity.


Dona youa worry Billy 66 wez got s wayz of dealin wit da stool pigeons! Hows a bout some cement reboks!   

Da spellin chekin tingy wen cookoo nutz. I taut it wood s explodes!!


----------



## willardcpa (Feb 23, 2001)

Billy66 said:


> Leave the guy alone. A squealer is the lowest form of humanity.


  
That statement is so, so wrong.  
And I am not going to enter into a debate with someone who would espouse such a theory.


----------



## PRMan (Jul 26, 2000)

A guy that steals and teaches others to do the same is the lowest form of humanity.


----------



## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

My TiVo gets all the channels too. If I pay for them.


----------



## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

Kablemodem said:


> My TiVo gets all the channels too. If I pay for them.


Your in luck! may 19-21 you will get all the channels!! And you wont have to pay for them all


----------



## SpacemanSpiff (Jan 31, 2004)

I agree with PRMan. It's all so wrong.

It's also stupid to take the installer up on it. When D* comes calling, he's going to be just as responsible and D* will charge him with theft.


----------



## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

Billy Bob Boy said:


> Your in luck! may 19-21 you will get all the channels!! And you wont have to pay for them all


Actually, I already do pay for them.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

On a Simpson's episode, Homer pays a cable guy to hook him up. The guy gives Homer a pamphlet:

_So, you've decided to steal cable._

Anyway, that's from memory.


----------



## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

Billy66 said:


> Leave the guy alone. A squealer is the lowest form of humanity.


That viewpoint reflects a belief in not casting the first stone, a belief which is certainly not in fashion today and probably illegal in itself under the Patriot Act.

Thinking it out: if I had reason to believe the individual had done this habitually, over a long period of time, to accumulate funds for discretionary spending, I'd probably turn him in and the hell with Jesus and secular humanism and all the wimpy stuff. Fry the sucker.

But what if this was a one-time incident? I don't know his circumstances, what his need was for the cash. The consequences of turning him in, relative to the degree of criminality and the harm of that specific incident against his employer, me, and society is potentially disproportionate damage I'm not willing to risk causing him and his family. I'd have called him on it, in no uncertain language, that's for sure!

Here's an example: a long time member of this forum once confessed here (bragged actually) to committing ongoing fraud against a chain store. He thought it was fun, I guess; my impression was that he didn't need the money. I thought long and hard about it and in the end I wimped out and did not notify the auhorities. The small amount of criminality simply didn't justify the potential damage.

I think we must take a stand and call out criminals when we see them. I am basically a prig and nobody in my presence escapes my holier-than-thou self-rightous indignation when they transgress (I personally think most of the early "is this stealing" treads were in fact examples of stealing), but costing a person his job, fines, prosecution, over what is a very minor crime constitute a step to be taken with great consideration


----------



## BigFoot48 (Jul 1, 2003)

Billy66 said:


> Leave the guy alone. A squealer is the lowest form of humanity.


Attitudes like that allow criminals to escape punishment. Reporting a law breaker is a requirement of living in civilization, and those who fail to do it should be punished too.

If you knew of Tim McVeigh's plot what would you have done?
If you knew the man in your trailer had a little girl captive that he later buried alive what would you have done?
If you knew your Enron boss was defauding the company what would you have done?

If you knew your fellow flight school student wanted to fly a plane into a building, what would you have done?


----------



## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

Billy, you're outnumbered on this one. If he's offering a box that allows you to steal from the company he works for, he is a thief. End of story. Just the same as if he was stealing candy bars from a store. He is making probably $250 or more from each sale and you are on the hook if D* come a-knocking.

I'd get on the phone. I'm no squealer, but that is abuse of position as well as out and out theft!


----------



## Dodge boy (Apr 7, 2006)

BigFoot48 said:


> Attitudes like that allow criminals to escape punishment. Reporting a law breaker is a requirement of living in civilization, and those who fail to do it should be punished too.
> 
> If you knew of Tim McVeigh's plot what would you have done?
> If you knew the man in your trailer had a little girl captive that he later buried alive what would you have done?
> ...


If I knew that many disturbed people I think i would have to evaluate what I did to get in with this group of idiots. 
As for the installer, who cares Bush lies and no one cares so why would stealing cable upset me?


----------



## Crash_Corrigan (Feb 27, 2004)

That installer was just trying to upsell you to the H20, so you could get all the channels, including the MPEG-4 HD channels (should you choose to subscribe to them)...yeah, that's the ticket!


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

BigFoot48 said:


> Attitudes like that allow criminals to escape punishment. Reporting a law breaker is a requirement of living in civilization, and those who fail to do it should be punished too.
> 
> If you knew of Tim McVeigh's plot what would you have done?
> If you knew the man in your trailer had a little girl captive that he later buried alive what would you have done?
> ...


I know my stance is not popular.

To answer your questions Bigfoot, it depends.


----------



## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

BigFoot48 said:


> Attitudes like that allow criminals to escape punishment. Reporting a law breaker is a requirement of living in civilization, and those who fail to do it should be punished too.
> 
> If you knew of Tim McVeigh's plot what would you have done?
> If you knew the man in your trailer had a little girl captive that he later buried alive what would you have done?
> ...


 Im a sci fi freek and i might not change those incidents cause what if one of those that died say of the 3000 in 911 later became president and pushed the button that killed 15 billion. Hey it was a plot in a great movie with cristopher walkin who gained a second sight by touch and shook hands with a pres candidate and saw him pushing the nuke button. But seriously i would do what i could to stop it but those comparisons are WAY off. If i saw someone slip a choclate bar in his pocket at a supermarket i probably wouldnt run for the pay phone to alert the police of the dasterly deed.


----------



## juliana541 (Oct 19, 2005)

BigFoot48 said:


> Attitudes like that allow criminals to escape punishment. Reporting a law breaker is a requirement of living in civilization, and those who fail to do it should be punished too.
> 
> If you knew of Tim McVeigh's plot what would you have done?
> If you knew the man in your trailer had a little girl captive that he later buried alive what would you have done?
> ...


You must be joking. Those are the most ludacris comparisons I have ever seen in my life. How can you even think of comparing the death of a child or the deaths of thousands of people to some putz stealing satellite service. As a friend of someone who died in 911 comparisons like yours shouldn't even be in the same thread as this. I feel the guy is wrong (The installer) But i would compare that to seeing someone in Best buy sticking a Hard drive in their purse or someone ripping off a department store for a buntch of clothes.


----------



## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

BigFoot48 said:


> Attitudes like that allow criminals to escape punishment. Reporting a law breaker is a requirement of living in civilization, and those who fail to do it should be punished too.
> 
> If you knew of Tim McVeigh's plot what would you have done?
> If you knew the man in your trailer had a little girl captive that he later buried alive what would you have done?
> ...


Wow, too bad for you that the government cancelled Operation TIPS!


----------



## willardcpa (Feb 23, 2001)

Dodge boy said:


> ..... Bush lies and no one cares....


Apparently you have not been paying attention.   
Or you're just prone to gross over generalizations.


----------



## BigFoot48 (Jul 1, 2003)

juliana541 said:


> You must be joking. Those are the most ludacris comparisons I have ever seen in my life.


I wasn't comparing those horrific events to stealing satellite service. I was commenting on "A squealer is the lowest form of humanity.", an attitude which could lead to ignoring bigger problems.

Being honest and a responsible member of society is not "the lowest form of humanity."

Just ask the future victims of the UniBomber who were saved when his brother turned him in.


----------



## steuert (Mar 13, 2002)

IMO this is a problem between the installer and DTV in which you don't have to get involved. You did your part by refusing to buy the gimmick.There's at least some chance that, if you notified DTV, the installer would find out who "ratted" on him, and he probably wouldn't hesitate to get revenge on you by one means or another.

DTV hired the guy, probably with no checking of his background and credentials. Let them do the detective work to expose him - for example by noticing that a disproportionate number of cheating subscribers had their installations done by him. 

(Yes, I know theft of service like this decreases DTV's revenues, and theoretically means increased costs for all of us honest subscribers. Probably amounts to about 1c a year for the average subscriber - not enough to justify blowing the whistle IMO.)

I agree comparisons with 9/11, Enron, child murder, etc., are absurd. This is a case of petty thievery (indirect at that) and certainly your moral obligation to intercede is entirely different.


----------



## SpacemanSpiff (Jan 31, 2004)

Something else to consider is the fact that sure, the installer sells you a box, with a hacked card that gets all the channels and PPV's FREE for the low low cost of only $400. What happens when D* deactiveates the card? You're out $400 then. Sure you could get 4 months out of it, or it could fry next week. Then what do you do? Call up D* and complain?

To whoever posted that it may be the first time the installer has ever done such a thing. If he's got the box in his truck and is willing to sell it. This most likely isn't the first time.


----------



## IOTP (Aug 7, 2001)

If DirecTV offered $159 FLAT month for EVERY channel, and I mean EVERY channel, all movies, channels 380-390, all programming, they'd make a killing TONS of people would subscribe, and their anti-signal theft division would close.

Too bad the FCC would never let it fly.

Would YOU subscribe? I certainly would.


----------



## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

IOTP said:


> If DirecTV offered $159 FLAT month for EVERY channel, and I mean EVERY channel, all movies, channels 380-390, all programming, they'd make a killing TONS of people would subscribe, and their anti-signal theft division would close.
> 
> Too bad the FCC would never let it fly.
> 
> Would YOU subscribe? I certainly would.


That model doesn't work. The OTA network stations is just a small part of the total problem with it. But your point is valid, as (unrealistically) stated, huge numbers would subscribe. It would, for a very, very brief period of time, be a bargain for consumers, and program providers would at least break even.

Totally different from that, and the reason theft of service will never disappear is a simple human factor illustrated by this example: If a particular premium station were free, all you had to do to get it was to send in a $5 bill from an old monopoly game every month to get it, many tens of thousands of people would NOT send in the $5 play money but would instead hack the channel. Putting something on people's property and then telling them it is not totally free and available for their use is foreign to human nature. You can pass laws to make it illegal for people to use it, and millions will be good citizens and struggle against their natures to obey the law, but a substantial portion will not, no matter how cheap you make it.


----------



## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

The biggest problem in turning someone in for a petty crime IMHO is the lack of knowledge that led the person to commit the crime. Yes stealing is wrong, but what if the theft was to feed a child? The ends don't justify the means but taking a child away from their parents who are strugling to make the life work is wrong too. Someone that steals as a kick or just to have expensive stuff deserve jail time. So next time you see someone lift a can of tuna from a store it could be to feed someone. If thats the cost to me, pennies is all prices go up because of petty theft than I am willing to pay it if it feeds a child. So if you see some punk kid slip something in his 150 dollar backpack wearing 200 dollar sneakers by all means turn him in. Also keep in mind by turning in the installer you very well could be ruining a family. If the guy is doing it habitualy he probably will get caught on his own. But what if it was a one time thing? ( someone gave him the thing and he needs to make a mortgage payment)

Unless your some kind of saint, we all have made a mistake or two in our lives. If you can sit there and honestly say you never made a mistake in your life, you probably are still young. Sometimes an easy answer to a monumental problem is too tempting.


----------



## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

If someone representing a large company came to me and offered to help me rip off that company my first thought would be to turn them in. And if this happned while standing in BestBuy or something, I would.

But turning in someone who's just been wandering around all inside my house, knowing not only where I live but what's in my house would be different. You've got to take into consideration how someone you just cost their job would retalliate.


----------



## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Sartori said:


> ahh, you should report the dude....


MAYBE, he was testing the customer, and would've turned HIM in if he had said "Yea, ok, I'll pay the $400.."

Maybe it was a STING!


----------



## willardcpa (Feb 23, 2001)

steuert said:


> IMO this is a problem between the installer and DTV in which you don't have to get involved......This is a case of petty thievery (indirect at that) and certainly your moral obligation to intercede is entirely different.


Hmmmm, last night drove by steuert's house about 3:00 am and there was a van in his driveway with "DTV installer" on the side, but the guys were obviously hauling all of his electronic gear from inside the house and putting it into the van.  
Oh well, I don't have to get involved.   
Or should I have just watched for a while and tried to determine if and when the "haul" exceeded the level of "petty thievery"?


----------



## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

Billy Bob Boy said:


> The biggest problem in turning someone in for a petty crime IMHO is the lack of knowledge that led the person to commit the crime. Yes stealing is wrong, but what if the theft was to feed a child? The ends don't justify the means but taking a child away from their parents who are strugling to make the life work is wrong too. Someone that steals as a kick or just to have expensive stuff deserve jail time. So next time you see someone lift a can of tuna from a store it could be to feed someone. If thats the cost to me, pennies is all prices go up because of petty theft than I am willing to pay it if it feeds a child. So if you see some punk kid slip something in his 150 dollar backpack wearing 200 dollar sneakers by all means turn him in. Also keep in mind by turning in the installer you very well could be ruining a family. If the guy is doing it habitualy he probably will get caught on his own. But what if it was a one time thing? ( someone gave him the thing and he needs to make a mortgage payment)
> 
> Unless your some kind of saint, we all have made a mistake or two in our lives. If you can sit there and honestly say you never made a mistake in your life, you probably are still young. Sometimes an easy answer to a monumental problem is too tempting.


Wow BBB, this post is just WRONG! Whatever the reason, stealing is stealing, and there is no justifying it by saying "what if it's to feed his child?"

Then the child thinks "Oh, my daddy did it to feed me when I was young, so it's OK for me to do the same!"

No, the ONLY responsible thing to do is turn him in. Selling illegal equipment is NOT the same as "making a mistake"!

As for the poster who said he may figure out who "ratted him out", well there are two factors here. First, if he's stupid enough not to check out who he's offering it to, then it could be anyone "ratting him out" and if he's convicted, it's unlikely he'll get himself into further trouble extracting revenge. Second, D* is unlikely to just take your word for it. They will check it out - perhaps even arranging a video recorded install to catch him in the act, so it wouldn't necessarily reflect back to you anyway.

There are no degrees of honesty. Either you are or you're not (and I'm not claiming to be totally honest either). This guy is not only being dishonest, he's encouraging others to be as well, so he should be stopped!


----------



## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

Adam1115 said:


> MAYBE, he was testing the customer, and would've turned HIM in if he had said "Yea, ok, I'll pay the $400.."
> 
> Maybe it was a STING!


One word proves this not to be true....

"ENTRAPMENT"


----------



## FlWingNut (Mar 4, 2005)

Maybe it's just me..but does anybody find it odd that as of this monent..the thread just below this one debating honesty and theft asks about "moving" their service to get locals they're not supposed to have?


----------



## IOTP (Aug 7, 2001)

That's just it, NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE, because the FCC says so.

What if you put a 200' antenna up, would you get them? I was told some people on the western part of phoenix, going towards the far western Maricopa county, they get some LA based channels OTA.

I was getting UPN OTA from Tucson, that is about 140 or so miles away from me to the south.

As an add bonus, I already get 12 stations from Mexico.


----------



## FlWingNut (Mar 4, 2005)

But the guy in the other thread lives in Charlotte and wants Pittsburgh locals, or vice versa. That's hardly the same thing. Most of the time it's displaced sports fans trying to figure out how to get their teams without subscribing to the out-of-market sports packages. Hey I'd love my Detroit teams here in Florida, but it doesn't work that way -- honestly -- so I pony up for Center Ice, enjoy the EI preview periods and hit the sports bars if I NEED to see a Lion's game.

When you move to another part of the country, you're supposed to watch those locals. BTW, I know there are problems with the DMA maps in certain areas, and yes, D* should work to make the proper locals available to all who want them.


----------



## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

The installer has a steady job. I doubt his kids are going hungry.


----------



## willardcpa (Feb 23, 2001)

David Platt said:


> The installer has a steady job. I doubt his kids are going hungry.


There you go, folks just making assumptions. How do you know he's got a steady job, dude's an subcontract installer, may only get assigned one job every two weeks.
So what you have to do to be politically correct is ask them all of the important "politically correct" questions. To determine if he's justified to pursue a life of crime.  
Space and time prevent me from sharing all of those questions with you at this time. So, I'll share one that I learned over 35 years ago by listening to the "Alices Restaurant Massacre", a question that was posed to Arlo Guthrie, after he was relegated to the "Group W" bench, occupied by "mother rapers, father stabbers and father rapers". After it was discovered by the draft board that he was convicted of littering. "Son, have you rehabilitated yourself?"


----------



## SpacemanSpiff (Jan 31, 2004)

Puhlease!

Consider the circumstances of the criminal before reporting him/her to the authorities? But if they look rich go right ahead and turn them in?

That's not for the observer of the crime to decide. It's up to the justice system.


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

Billy Bob Boy said:


> The biggest problem in turning someone in for a petty crime IMHO is the lack of knowledge that led the person to commit the crime. Yes stealing is wrong, but what if the theft was to feed a child? The ends don't justify the means but taking a child away from their parents who are strugling to make the life work is wrong too. Someone that steals as a kick or just to have expensive stuff deserve jail time. So next time you see someone lift a can of tuna from a store it could be to feed someone. If thats the cost to me, pennies is all prices go up because of petty theft than I am willing to pay it if it feeds a child. So if you see some punk kid slip something in his 150 dollar backpack wearing 200 dollar sneakers by all means turn him in. Also keep in mind by turning in the installer you very well could be ruining a family. If the guy is doing it habitualy he probably will get caught on his own. But what if it was a one time thing? ( someone gave him the thing and he needs to make a mortgage payment)
> 
> Unless your some kind of saint, we all have made a mistake or two in our lives. If you can sit there and honestly say you never made a mistake in your life, you probably are still young. Sometimes an easy answer to a monumental problem is too tempting.


So what if the punk kid is the son of the Tuna stealer who learned if you can't afford something you can always steal it. Now he's stolen the 200.00 shoes and the backpak.


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

This should have been a poll. 

Thieves are way lower than squealers. I've have reported him.


----------



## HomieG (Feb 17, 2003)

Did the installer look anything like Jim Carrey, or is this a 21st century version where The Cable Guy becomes The Dish Guy?


----------



## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

JFriday said:


> So what if the punk kid is the son of the Tuna stealer who learned if you can't afford something you can always steal it. Now he's stolen the 200.00 shoes and the backpak.


 All right allready i digress   Lets all turn each other in. Kids turn in your parents. neighbors turn in your neighbors. Workers turn in your coworkers. Lets all walk hand in hand to prison together.  The problem is if everyones in jail who would be outside to guard us all    Dont forget to turn yourself in  especialy if you borrowed your cousins rented version of shreck2 cause it is illegal


----------



## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

HomieG said:


> Did the installer look anything like Jim Carrey, or is this a 21st century version where The Cable Guy becomes The Dish Guy?


----------



## kpurcell (Jul 13, 2005)

Queasy1 said:


> Heh...I could have always blackmailed him.
> 
> "So, you wanna give me the box for say $50 and I'll promise not to call DirecTV and your supervisor?"
> 
> LOL


Of course he' say, OK and then trun you in saying you put it on yourself.


----------



## Dodge boy (Apr 7, 2006)

IOTP said:


> If DirecTV offered $159 FLAT month for EVERY channel, and I mean EVERY channel, all movies, channels 380-390, all programming, they'd make a killing TONS of people would subscribe, and their anti-signal theft division would close.
> 
> Too bad the FCC would never let it fly.
> 
> Would YOU subscribe? I certainly would.


Where do I sign???


----------



## cheer (Nov 13, 2005)

While I agree with most in this thread that consider what this installer was doing was wrong, and I absolutely would have reported him, I just wanted to make one comment:


Guindalf said:


> Wow BBB, this post is just WRONG! Whatever the reason, stealing is stealing, and there is no justifying it by saying "what if it's to feed his child?"
> 
> Then the child thinks "Oh, my daddy did it to feed me when I was young, so it's OK for me to do the same!"


Dunno about you, but there aren't many things I wouldn't do as a parent for my kids if necessity demanded it. I'm certainly not in a position where I have to steal to feed them, but if I was, I would. I wouldn't feel great about it, and I'd make it right the minute I was able, but still.

And (A) most parents, in such a situation, would likely do their best to keep the child from learning what was done on his/her behalf, and (B) if the alternative is that my child thinks nothing at all due to starving, well...not a happy choice, but I wouldn't have to think much about which way I'd go.

--chris


----------



## cowboys2002 (Jun 15, 2001)

Lots of interesting opinions on this issue.

A few years back, cable theft was rampant (and to a lesser degree DTV and Dish).

IMHO, theft is theft, no matter what the situation. If your morals/beliefs lead you to either say something to the person or report them, fine ..do it. 

There is no justification for stealing anothers property. If you want/need something, offer your time/services to pay for it. I have a family to support and at times I have held 1 or 2 extra jobs to make end meet. Netheir involved theft. There are too many options out there before robbing or stealing because a necessity/reason for theft.

FWIW, there are many DTV employees in So Cal that have offered me "cards" and other devices. I have refused. Not because I am "perfect", but I honestly don't need all the channels and PPV movies. As an employee, it is not my responsibility to supervise thise who don't report to me. However, if someone is robbing your compnay blind, somwhere along the way, it may affect your employers ability to pay you. That not withstanding, mention something to the employee/employer and let the chip fall where they may!!


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

steuert said:


> IMO this is a problem between the installer and DTV in which you don't have to get involved. You did your part by refusing to buy the gimmick.There's at least some chance that, if you notified DTV, the installer would find out who "ratted" on him, and he probably wouldn't hesitate to get revenge on you by one means or another.
> 
> DTV hired the guy, probably with no checking of his background and credentials. Let them do the detective work to expose him - for example by noticing that a disproportionate number of cheating subscribers had their installations done by him.
> 
> ...


The problem here, is that is the provailing attitude in this country and the criminals know it. It's the way thugs have been operating forever, whether it be Nazi Germany, the Mob, or some folks in the government who "out" CIA agents as revenge for family members telling the truth. They put the fear into you that if you "squeal on the bad guys" the bad guys will exact revenge on you. The only way to stop this type of thing is for responsible citizens to put a stop to it. D* may or may not find these guys at some point, but, who knows, at some point you may get some free stuff for ratting out the bad guys.

Of course big corps like D* do there own forms of cheating too..but this is not the forum for that discussion.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Billy Bob Boy said:


> The biggest problem in turning someone in for a petty crime IMHO is the lack of knowledge that led the person to commit the crime. Yes stealing is wrong, but what if the theft was to feed a child? The ends don't justify the means but taking a child away from their parents who are strugling to make the life work is wrong too. Someone that steals as a kick or just to have expensive stuff deserve jail time. So next time you see someone lift a can of tuna from a store it could be to feed someone. If thats the cost to me, pennies is all prices go up because of petty theft than I am willing to pay it if it feeds a child. So if you see some punk kid slip something in his 150 dollar backpack wearing 200 dollar sneakers by all means turn him in. Also keep in mind by turning in the installer you very well could be ruining a family. If the guy is doing it habitualy he probably will get caught on his own. But what if it was a one time thing? ( someone gave him the thing and he needs to make a mortgage payment)
> 
> Unless your some kind of saint, we all have made a mistake or two in our lives. If you can sit there and honestly say you never made a mistake in your life, you probably are still young. Sometimes an easy answer to a monumental problem is too tempting.


Well, if someone needs to steal in order to feed their kid, then there's a problem with a society that condones such things and this person needs help from the government. Stealing is wrong, no matter what the reason is, because it punsihes the people who actually have to pay for the product. Hey, I'm more liberal than most people, but I will never condone a crime, no matter what the reason is. If the crime needs to be commited for this person to survive, then someone, either the government, a charity or big business needs to help the person, whatever it takes.


----------



## lander215 (Jan 10, 2003)

Let's not forget the installer was.....working...he was getting....paid.....if he needs to sell on the side to....feed his children....he needs a money manager more than anything else.

Sorry for injecting a dose of reality....


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Billy Bob Boy said:


> All right allready i digress   Lets all turn each other in. Kids turn in your parents. neighbors turn in your neighbors. Workers turn in your coworkers. Lets all walk hand in hand to prison together.  The problem is if everyones in jail who would be outside to guard us all    Dont forget to turn yourself in  especialy if you borrowed your cousins rented version of shreck2 cause it is illegal


I think you've gotten a bit carried away here, but I guess you have a point about the copy of Shrek 2 you might have borrowed, although, I think that's ok as long as you didn't copy it. But, I have a differing opinion on copying movies for "personal use". I don't see why, when years ago, the law said it was ok to copy an LP record to a cassete tape, or for that matter, to TiVo a show off the TV, why it should be illegal to copy a DVD for personal use, as long as you either legally rented or paid for the DVD. By renting the movie, the movie producers/studio gets their royalty, and by buying it, the same thing. SO, why shoudn't I have a copy of the movie I can watch since I already paid for it once.

I think the copyright laws in this country just do not know how to handle modern technology properly, since they are all based on handling printed material.

Again, I digress...back to your regularly scheduled thread


----------



## jgrade (Aug 11, 2005)

Steveknj: The legal issue of copying a DVD is because it is encrypted. Copying a cassette tape, VHS, LP, etc, that is not encrypted, including software, is OK for personal use as long as you don't need to decrypt it first. To decrypt a DVD you must pay for the decryption software and be authorized to use it first. Not likely to happen for personal use.

As far as the topic goes: We live in a society that punishes criminals on a sliding scale that is supposed to justify the crime. Speeding is usually a ticket followed by a monetary fine. Murder is usually long jail time or death. There is no set punishment for most crimes and is usually debated by a jury or judge. HOWEVER, stealing is a crime and should be punished no matter what the reason. That is a harsh stance, but the jury or judge will determine what the punishment is. If a man is caught stealing a can of tuna to feed a starving family, I would hope a court would be very light on the punishment if imposed at all. If a satellite installer willfully sells equipment with the sole purpose of stealing his employers signal for his OWN profit then the punishment should fit the crime. If he cant make enough money to feed his family then get another job, or a better one or Gov assistance, or two jobs, etc. Easier said then done I am aware, but stealing is stealing and a crime. 

Since our justice system has levels of crimes, some of the threads above just dont make sense. We are not all walking hand in hand to jail. The petty theft of a can of tuna to feed a starving family is not leading to jail. Speeding or copying a DVD for personal use is not going to lead to jail. Stop exaggerating!

At the very least, I would turn him in to his employer, assuming he is not independent, or DTV if he was.


----------



## BigFoot48 (Jul 1, 2003)

jgrade said:


> Steveknj: The legal issue of copying a DVD is because it is encrypted. Copying a cassette tape, VHS, LP, etc, that is not encrypted, including software, is OK for personal use as long as you don't need to decrypt it first. To decrypt a DVD you must pay for the decryption software and be authorized to use it first. Not likely to happen for personal use.


Free DVD decryption software is widely available, such as DVDFabDecrypter.

And food banks and services for the homeless are widely available. Having to steal to feed your kids is a bogus excuse, and once you're arrested and in jail who's going to feed your kids then?


----------



## IOTP (Aug 7, 2001)

BigFoot48 said:


> And food banks and services for the homeless are widely available. Having to steal to feed your kids is a bogus excuse, and once you're arrested and in jail who's going to feed your kids then?


The same with the immigration. When they come across the border and go to the hospital.

They leave, who pays the bill?

Yup, you guessed it -- you and me.


----------



## beanpoppa (Jan 7, 2004)

Technically, this software is illegal. Under the DMCA, any act that goes around a digital copy protection mechanism is illegal. However, actually copying a DVD for personal backup use is legal under the fair-use act. So, the two laws are at odds with eachother. This is why you don't see any lawsuits against people who are using these types of software. If this stuff ever goes to court, there is a good chance that the parts of the DMCA that make circumventing the copy protection illegal will be thrown out, and the content owners/distributors don't want to have that precedent set. They would rather a law be on the books to hang over peoples' heads as intimidation, even if they don't enforce it.



BigFoot48 said:


> Free DVD decryption software is widely available, such as DVDFabDecrypter.
> 
> And food banks and services for the homeless are widely available. Having to steal to feed your kids is a bogus excuse, and once you're arrested and in jail who's going to feed your kids then?


----------



## cheer (Nov 13, 2005)

cowboys2002 said:


> If you want/need something, offer your time/services to pay for it. I have a family to support and at times I have held 1 or 2 extra jobs to make end meet. Netheir involved theft. There are too many options out there before robbing or stealing because a necessity/reason for theft.


I don't disagree -- nor do I condone theft. I simply meant that if the situation arose with no real alternative, and I had to make that kind of tough decision, that's where I'd fall.

--chris


----------



## cheer (Nov 13, 2005)

Steveknj said:


> Well, if someone needs to steal in order to feed their kid, then there's a problem with a society that condones such things and this person needs help from the government.


Seeing as how there are, at this time, zero (0) confirmed examples of a government that has totally eliminated poverty, starvation, and the like, this is an interesting but ultimately pointless remark.


> Stealing is wrong, no matter what the reason is, because it punsihes the people who actually have to pay for the product.


I don't disagree.


> Hey, I'm more liberal than most people, but I will never condone a crime, no matter what the reason is.


Never? Ever? What about an unjust law? (Note that I'm not trying to say that a law against theft is unjust.) But if a government passed an unreasonable, unjust law you would never condone violating it?


> If the crime needs to be commited for this person to survive, then someone, either the government, a charity or big business needs to help the person, whatever it takes.


Well charities do what they can with limited resources. Not sure how a big business would be involved specifically. As for the government...well, everything has a cost. "Whatever it takes" could mean putting many more people out of work...is that an acceptable consequence?

--chris


----------



## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

Billy Bob Boy said:


> All right allready i digress   Lets all turn each other in. Kids turn in your parents. neighbors turn in your neighbors. Workers turn in your coworkers. Lets all walk hand in hand to prison together.  The problem is if everyones in jail who would be outside to guard us all    Dont forget to turn yourself in  especialy if you borrowed your cousins rented version of shreck2 cause it is illegal


 My point with this post was not to condone criminal behavior but to shoot down all the holier than thou posters here who say they would jump to put the installer in jail. Which by the way who do you all think pays for the housing and feeding of the guy once he is in jail. Since cost to the consumer was brought up by theft of service. Again no excuse for criminal behavior but something to think about. We are all guilty of criminal behavior to a degree. How many of you pay 2 subscriptions for antivirus for your desktop and notebook. Technically if your av company says you can only use the software on one machine You are stealing. should you go to jail. probably not. I bet someone will respond to this and yammer I never did anything wrong in my life! I found a dollar on the street and ran to see who it belong to. I find change in the pay phone I get a money order and mail it to the phone co.

If I saw someone committing a armed robbery i would call the police. If an installer offered to hook me up for free I would decline and leave it at that. If I knew my neighbor was killing children I would jump to turn them in but by the same token if my neighbor was using stolen software I would not. Just how I feel. IMHO not every crime in the world nessesitates contacting the authorities.


----------



## willardcpa (Feb 23, 2001)

Billy Bob Boy said:


> My point with this post was not to condone criminal behavior but to shoot down all the holier than thou posters here who say they would jump to put the installer in jail......


I don't seem to recall seeing anybody say they would "jump to put the installer in jail".  
That's the problem here (and in a lot of other places/causes in the world today), a lot of folks are taking extremes. And then using the example of the other extreme to justify their position on their extreme.
Many of those of us that disagree with your "not turn him in philosophy" are not advocating jail time, or starving his kids. Just getting the "word" of his "crime" to the proper authorities, and let them act on it. In this area there is so much drug related crime that the local authorities in all likelihood would not do a darned thing, - there was a recent case where they raided a "drug house" that was selling drugs and acting as "fences" for stolen property - all they did was issue the guy a "citation" to appear in court later.  Dude probably redoubled his efforts in order to afford an attorney (of course he'll probably get a free Public Defender).


----------



## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

Steveknj said:


> But, I have a differing opinion on copying movies for "personal use". I don't see why, when years ago, the law said it was ok to copy an LP record to a cassete tape, or for that matter, to TiVo a show off the TV, why it should be illegal to copy a DVD for personal use, as long as you either legally rented or paid for the DVD. By renting the movie, the movie producers/studio gets their royalty, and by buying it, the same thing. SO, why shoudn't I have a copy of the movie I can watch since I already paid for it once.


There are two issues really, the decryption, which would be so, and the basis for your posession of the disc theother. Renting it only pays for your right to view the feature for only a limited time, not the right to duplicate the disc for permanent posession of the duplicate. Quite technically, the duplicate is to be on the posession of the posessor of the original.


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Billy Bob Boy said:


> IMHO not every crime in the world nessesitates contacting the authorities.


I would agree with that. Anyway, I wouldn't have called the law on the installer, I would have called DirecTV. He should be fired for sure.


----------



## jgrade (Aug 11, 2005)

BigFoot48 said:


> Free DVD decryption software is widely available, such as DVDFabDecrypter.
> 
> And food banks and services for the homeless are widely available. Having to steal to feed your kids is a bogus excuse, and once you're arrested and in jail who's going to feed your kids then?


As beanpoppa says, the software is illegal. If the service guy gave me the unit to steal the satellite signal for free, it does not make it legal. Just because something is free and readily available does not make it legal. HOWEVER I completely disagree with the MPAA on this one and will backup my DVDs whenever and however I please. I purchased then legally and intend to keep them safe by making a backup; I have kids that like to destroy DVDs by scratching them.

I agree with your second statement completely, except to say that the food banks need food donated. Not to be a hypocrite, [soapbox] I regularly donate to Harvesters and encourage others to do the same. [/soapbox]


----------



## extension 721 (Sep 29, 2005)

People who consider "squealers" to be the lowest form of humanity are the lowest form of humanity...that is why the most outspoken critics of "squealers" are people who are locked up in our prison system.

Gangsters, mobsters, cheaters, theives....all consider "squealers" bad....because they are lawbreakers, cheaters, sleazebags and other honorless swine.

This man is like an employee who pockets inventory, then sells it behind the store at a discount. Disloyal, dishonest, biting the hand that feeds him.


----------



## extension 721 (Sep 29, 2005)

Yes, I've seen this in action and yes, I kept quiet. My friend had $40 and $45 of merchandise at a "salvage" store with no inventory control. The cashier rung it as $35 and pocketed the extra $5.


----------

