# TiVo/Comcast vs. DIRECTV/Genie



## jacbec (May 15, 2012)

Planning to dump Comcast for DIRECTV. Understand that DIRECTV only works with TiVo Series 2 boxes (I have a Premier), therefore might have to use DIRECTV Genie HD DVR. It sounds pretty good, maybe even better/simpler than TiVo. The whole DIRECTV deal sounds much cheaper. Any experiences?


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

I think the only Tivo that Directv has these days is the one they developed with Tivo based on the HR22. And that is an old unit that was and still is a poor performer.



I'm not aware of any way to have an actual Tivo manufactured box work with DirecTV.



Directv's Genie is a very nice box for managing their sat service, the HD PQ is excellent as well, and they have a ton of HD channels including lots of sports. That said, the UI is more crude than Tivo's. If you switch make sure to get the HR44 Genie as it is faster and better than the HR34 Genie.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

I would say that TiVo, Genie, and Hopper (all new subs get the Sling version) are all in the same top tier class of whole home DVR's. You can't really go wrong with any of them. Of course, each of those systems have their own little quirks and ways of doing things.


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## Kash76 (Jul 29, 2001)

I recently made the change myself. I have enjoyed the TiVo functionality but I miss my picture quality of DTV. I am saving money though and that helps me get over it


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

Series3Sub said:


> I would say that TiVo, Genie, and Hopper (all new subs get the Sling version) are all in the same top tier class of whole home DVR's. You can't really go wrong with any of them. Of course, each of those systems have their own little quirks and ways of doing things.


When I made a comparison posting in another forum, I ranked the units thus:

For cable/sat management:

#1 - Dish's Hopper w/Sling - This is one superb box with the best overall UI of the bunch

#2 - Genie & Tivo - Both do a very good job, but the UI's are mostly text based and to me seem to have more quirks in how they approach things.

For integration of streaming & cable/sat:

#1 Tivo Roamio

And while the Hopper has Netflix, and both the Genie and Hopper have a DLNA client, there is no integration beyond running an app to get to Netflix, and basic DLNA support.

I recently switched from Dish with a Hopper w/Sling and a Super Joey because I could save some money and I liked how the Tivo Roamio Plus works. Mediacom doesn't have near the number of channels that either of the sat services have, but they have all the ones I watch so switching wasn't a big deal. The bundle of 100/10 internet and the cable tv service is saving me a fair amount of money and I'm pleased with the service.

If I had to switch today from cable, it would be to Dish as I like the Hopper much better than the Genie and the only sports I watch regularly are boxing and golf and all the services have plenty of those.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

I have both, use both extensively. They are both top-notch DVRs. 

Random thoughts:

* Trick play is MUCH better on TiVo, and that is probably what I miss the most when I watch DirecTV. The FF/REW functions on DTV is barely tolerable, the quick rewind is inconsistent, there is always a slight pause before play resumes, etc. And SLOW... don't get me started (it's not even a button on their new remotes).

* Wishlists are much better, and far more advanced, on TiVo. I happen to have 50-60 of them, so I care. Some people hardly use them.

* I find TiVo's UI easier to use, and read. On-screen displays, especially of data (eg, To-Do Lists, Now Playing, etc), easier to read and follow. DTV has a busier screen, that actually displays far less data at a time.

* TiVo offers more granularity of control, both currently recorded shows, and upcoming records, and yet is easier to control. Increased granularity with ease of use is the sign of a great UI.

* DirecTV has far fewer guide problems. I assume because they control the guide data, you never have shows not recording because of incorrect OADs, or messing up between first run and repeats. I find incorrect guide data on TiVo once or twice a week (and that's only the shows I'm looking at, no telling how much more). I can't recall seeing bad guide data on DTV hardly ever.

* Picture quality is a toss-up. Some say DTV is better, but I don't see it. YMMV.

* DTV has far more HD channels than Comcast. Comcast has 6 HBOs, but only 3 are HD. Three or four SHO, but only 1 HD. Seven MAXs, only 1 HD, etc etc. All of them are HD on DTV. This doesn't bother me on Comcast, as the main channel is HD, and I can always find what I want on the main channel, eventually. But there is no doubt DTV has more HD.

* DirecTV Genie has no streaming services that I am aware of, other than their own OD. TiVo has Netflix, Yahoo, Amazon, yada yada yada, plus Comcast OD.

If you have any other questions, ask away. I use both all the time, have 50+ passes on both, and watch both. Happy to answer questions.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Just to be clear, I have the Genie 44 (the newest version), and TiVo Roamios. And both of these are much faster than their predecessors. TiVo is slightly faster than Genie, but speed is not a problem for either.

I also have the Minis for each.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Just remembered... DirecTV has soft padding on all recordings, if possible (ie, no conflicts, tuner free). One of the most useful features of any DVR.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

After 12 years with DirecTV (we started with the Series 1 DirecTiVo) we recently switched to FiOS and TiVo. The key difference between the TiVo Roamio and the Genie are:

*Maximum disk space*
As manufactured: TiVo 3TB, Genie 1TB 
Maximum user upgrade: TiVo 4TB (requires preparation on PC), DirecTV has no known limit (upto 6TB drives have been used, as well as 12TB external RAID arrays)
(Note: All HD on DirecTV is MPEG4, so diskspace goes at least 30% further. Also, any ESATA drive can be used for external storage, but it replaces the internal drive as opposed to adding to it.)

*Streaming*
While the Roamio has a Stream built-in, DirecTV still uses an external unit called a GenieGo. The GenieGo had a tough childhood, but is now a pretty reliable box. Like the Stream, it can download as well, and supports OOH streaming.

*OTT apps*
DirecTV has none (we had 3 Rokus), TiVo has several, and most of the popular ones.

*Performance*
As noted above, the latest Genie (HR44) is comparable in speed to the Roamio, however because of MPEG4 channel acquistion takes a little longer.
The UIs are comparable, although DirecTV converted to an all HD UI about 2 years ago.
As previously noted, Trick Play is MUCH better on TiVo (despite DirecTV licensing TiVo technology). On the other hand, DirecTV has solved the soft padding issue (and it works VERY well).
DirecTV DVRs can not transfer recordings (whole home is streaming only) which is a real impediment to upgrading. There is currently no way to get a recording off a DirecTV DVR other than the GenieGo (which transcodes everything down to a lower resolution).

*IP clients*
DirecTV has Genie Minis, just like the TiVo Mini. However, DirecTV also has wireless versions as well as wired. Minis have no ethernet jacks, so it is MOCA (DirecTV's implementation is called DECA) or wireless. Wireless requires the use of a special access point, but it supports both 2.4GHz and 5GHz so it can coexist with most wireless LANs.

*Other points*
DirecTV and FIOS are considered to have the best HD picture quality. I don't have Comcast in my area, so I can't comment on their PQ.
Customer service is pretty good from both TiVo and DirecTV, but both are FAR superior to Comcast.
Channel selection on DirecTV is very good, and they just launched a new satellite, with another due in a few weeks, which will allow them to expand their HD channels even more, plus support some UHD when such channels are available.
DirecTV makes it VERY difficult to own a DVR, you really can only lease them, unless you are willing to pay $600 for a Genie.
ALL set top boxes (including the IP clients) incur a $6/month fee, whether you own the box or lease.

Bottom line, moving from Comcast/TiVo to DirecTV/Genie will be about a wash on the hardware, but a noticeable improvement in the content service. Just be aware that the advertsed package price on DirecTV's website does not include outlet fees, a $25/month "Whole Home" fee (and is required with the Genie, even if you have only one unit) but does includes DVR service. DirecTV no longer charges extra for HD.

I hope this helps...I'll be happy to answer any other questions you have. You can also find a lot of information about DirecTV and Dish on DBSTalk.com or SateliteGuys.us.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

Number of channels on both sat services is much more than with Mediacom as I've noted. But I found that Mediacom's smaller channel count covered all channels that I watch and I don't see any missing from any of the providers that would be of interest.



And of course, cost comes into play.



With Mediacom I have finally gotten a bill that doesn't have lots of changes so I can see the exact cost of cable tv compared to what I would pay either Dish or Direct.



Mediacom is $80/month for all the channels I would watch in their Top250/Ultimate packages which is about $80 on Dish and a little higher on Direct. Then add in the other costs and things add up quickly:



Dish : T250 @$80, Hopper + SuperJoey (to be around the same as the Tivo Roamio Plus) $22. That makes it almost a wash, but add in the 3 Premiums that I keep, the cost is around the $35/month range. So even with the Tivo fees I save money and don't lose any channels I care about.



For Direct, I agree with Diana for the most part. I've said in other forums that the "HD UI" that Direct has isn't very good and wastes lots of screen space and was no great improvement to the old text based one. Tivo's is hands down better.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

Forgot one other point...NEVER, EVER, let a DirecTV DVR get more than 85-90% full. When the disk fills up the DVR (even the HR44) slows WAY down. It is generally assumed that it is caused by the live buffer ending up scattered across the drive, and that has top priority in the software.

lparsons has a point about wasted screen space in the UI, but some like the uncluttered look (particularly as compared to the Dish UI). User interface is very much a matter of taste, I think.

Oh, speaking of the buffer, DirecTV DVRs have a 1 hour buffer, but they only buffer the "foreground" tuner by default (you can enable multi-tuner buffering, but it stops after the background tuners are not brought forward for 3 hours).


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## beartrap (Nov 8, 2005)

Diana Collins said:


> After 12 years with DirecTV (we started with the Series 1 DirecTiVo) we recently switched to FiOS and TiVo.
> 
> Bottom line, moving from Comcast/TiVo to DirecTV/Genie will be about a wash on the hardware, but a noticeable improvement in the content service. Just be aware that the advertsed package price on DirecTV's website does not include outlet fees, a $25/month "Whole Home" fee (and is required with the Genie, even if you have only one unit) but does includes DVR service. DirecTV no longer charges extra for HD.


I also just left DirecTV, after 19 years, to switch to Comcast with a Roamio + 3 Mini set up. I previously used TiVos with DirecTV back in the olden days, and am so glad to be back with a box that has reliable trick play and smooth remote operation (having a remote button press take 5 seconds to be carried out by the box just sucks). In my opinion, the new TiVo hardware that I have is miles ahead of DirecTV's stuff. For content, DirecTV definitely has more, and in HD, but Comcast has the stuff that I watch, which is what matters.

The $25/month "Whole Home" fee that you mention subsumed the HD fee, as well as the DVR fee and the old Whole Home fee, which is still $3.00 for legacy customers. So DirecTV took three fees that used to add up to $23/month and turned them into one fee that is now $25/month.



> Oh, speaking of the buffer, DirecTV DVRs have a 1 hour buffer...


I'm pretty sure, at least on my DirecTV equipment, that the buffer was 90 minutes. This is the biggest thing (maybe the only thing) that I miss about using DirecTV equipment.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Diana Collins said:


> Oh, speaking of the buffer, DirecTV DVRs have a 1 hour buffer, but they only buffer the "foreground" tuner by default (you can enable multi-tuner buffering, but it stops after the background tuners are not brought forward for 3 hours).


Yeah, I forgot to mention tuners & buffers too.

DirecTV has a 90 minute buffer (beartrap is correct). It's amazing how useful that is, especially when you consider I tend to watch recordings, not live TV. Yet I find myself zipping back into the buffer far more than one would think.

But TiVo, even with their measly 30 minute buffer, has six live tuners. That is even more amazing/useful, especially if you learn how to use them. Multiple live tuners can really be handy. I'd rather have the multi-tuners than the 90 minute buffer, but ideally, let's have both!

Another area where DirecTV prevails (and this is getting really techie/specific) is the handling of tuners & recordings. TiVo treats a recording as discrete from the live tuner playing that same recording. For example, pause a live recording in the buffer, then go to another channel or tuner. Then later go to the actual recording, and you are not where you paused it. Two discrete events. Another example--when a recording starts on a live tuner, it clears the buffer previous to the recording start. And when it ends, the buffer is cleared again. And tuners are discrete--overlapping recordings require two tuners on the same channel.

DTV doesn't do any of this. You can watch a recording as it's recording, go back into the prior buffer (ie, before the recording starts), go forward, go back again, as long as it's within the 90 minute buffer. And when it ends, the entire buffer is still alive. DirecTV handles the buffer/recording conundrum seamlessly. TiVo, not so much. Fortunately, it doesn't make much difference in daily usage.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Diana Collins said:


> Bottom line, moving from Comcast/TiVo to DirecTV/Genie will be about a wash on the hardware, but a noticeable improvement in the content service. Just be aware that the advertsed package price on DirecTV's website does not include outlet fees, a $25/month "Whole Home" fee (and is required with the Genie, even if you have only one unit) but does includes DVR service. DirecTV no longer charges extra for HD.


I'll add another point about the cost - with a double play package from Comcast you will likely come out WAY cheaper than a DirecTV + HSI package. Also on Comcast the first Cablecard is included in the package so there is no STB fee as with DirectTV. Essentially you don't pay anything extra on Comcast with a Tivo + Minis setup.

Also with all satellite you're going to have rain fade issues in heavy T-storms etc. plus for you Yanks the snow problems in the winter. I rarely have a total outage on Comcast (like once or twice a year) but with the T-storms we get here it'd be a lot more on sat.

Basically the only reason to get DirectTV (for me) would be to get channels I don't have on Comcast (some sports, mainly). I can't think of any that I would have that would make me switch especially given the extra cost and the above-mentioned hassle of satellite in general.


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## Kash76 (Jul 29, 2001)

I had DirecTV for 15 years and loved everything about it except for the price and out of home experience. 

I had a legacy package and after multiple credits I was paying shy of $90 a month for DTV alone. Now I have the double play for $110 w/tax w/o a contract for 12 months and I own my equipment. I save $30+ a month on what was a good price from DTV and was likely to only go up to $40+ in the next six months based on expiring promotions. 

I am happy with my savings and the capabilities of my TiVo/Comcast combo. The rain fade was rare for me and I have over the ground wiring in my old neighborhood so I will likely have more problems with trees falling with cable  I can live with that, I am now a free agent and can go OTA if I want in the summer and save more money. 

I love options! Competition is about to get better in my area with CenturyLink dropping in fiber. While I am not interested in leasing their equipment for television and it's not compatible with TiVo, I can leverage the competition to my favor.


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## BORIF (Feb 24, 2011)

is downloading content to computer possible with Direct or Dish?


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## Kash76 (Jul 29, 2001)

The GenieGo allowed downloads to my PC.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

BORIF said:


> is downloading content to computer possible with Direct or Dish?


The DirecTV GenieGo will support transcoded downloads to a PC, any (not jail-broken) iOS device or any supported (non-rooted) Android device. I don't recall the transcoded resolution, but it is well below full HD.


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## dave13077 (Jan 11, 2009)

Diana Collins said:


> The DirecTV GenieGo will support transcoded downloads to a PC, any (not jail-broken) iOS device or any supported (non-rooted) Android device. I don't recall the transcoded resolution, but it is well below full HD.


Sounds like your Direct TV experience was , for the most part, favorable. Why did you switch to Verizon? I am thinking of going from TWC to Direct TV but still undecided.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Diana Collins said:


> *Other points*
> DirecTV and FIOS are considered to have the best HD picture quality. I don't have Comcast in my area, so I can't comment on their PQ.
> Customer service is pretty good from both TiVo and DirecTV, but both are FAR superior to Comcast.
> Channel selection on DirecTV is very good, and they just launched a new satellite, with another due in a few weeks, which will allow them to expand their HD channels even more, plus support some UHD when such channels are available.
> ...


That's a pretty good analysis. I'll add in that Comcast's PQ is noticeably weaker than either DirecTV or FIOS. I'm thinking that DirecTV might actually be the current king, now that FIOS is using more compression and DirecTV has their own encoders for local channels, so they are getting better than OTA quality on them. It's a weird world that we live in where beaming a TV station that might be 10 or 20 miles away 26,000 miles into space and back gets a better quality picture than just blasting it through the air or wires that 10 or 20 miles, but that's where we're at.

I would also add that my one channel from Boston looks WAY better than the ones from CT, so Comcast may be doing a better job in Boston due to the competition from FIOS.

There's no way DirecTV is cheaper than anything else. That being said, if the OP wants specific out of market sports, or other channels that Comcast doesn't offer, then that's obviously an advantage. The rebuilt Comcast systems better compete with DirecTV than some of the olders ones that are missing a lot of channels.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Just thought of another difference...

TiVo allows you to undelete a recording. DirecTV does not. One of the most useful features ever.

Have no idea why DirecTV doesn't allow this. No way it can be patented.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

dave13077 said:


> Sounds like your Direct TV experience was , for the most part, favorable. Why did you switch to Verizon? I am thinking of going from TWC to Direct TV but still undecided.


We switched because the price difference between DirecTV and a combination of Verizon and TiVo saves us well over $100 per month while we have the new subscriber credits and about $70 per month when they expire (based upon the current package price). The list price for the DirecTV package (Premier) and Verizon package (Ultimate) were about the same, but without any DirecTV add-on fees, and only $11.98 per month for 2 Cablecards, plus the triple play discount from Verizon, made the price difference too great to ignore.

We'll see where things are in June of next year when our Verizon commitment ends. If Verizon doesn't deteriorate, or sell us off, we'll probably stay. If not, we can always switch back (we have a few DirecTV receivers that we own).


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## jjd_87 (Jan 31, 2011)

Well I'm in the same boat. I'm sick of Suddenlink and there constant price increses and dropping all Vicomm channels. I hate the idea of giving up my Tivo's but I couldn't do it anymore. We will be saving about $50 a month and getting a lot more channels.


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## beartrap (Nov 8, 2005)

Bigg said:


> I'll add in that Comcast's PQ is noticeably weaker than either DirecTV or FIOS.


Perhaps that's the situation where you are, but that's not my experience. I was pleasantly surprised to find that Comcast's PQ was just as good as, if not better than, what I had with DirecTV.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

beartrap said:


> Perhaps that's the situation where you are, but that's not my experience. I was pleasantly surprised to find that Comcast's PQ was just as good as, if not better than, what I had with DirecTV.


They must be doing better in your market than here. Here it is night and day on many channels. Every time I go into a restaurant and see a TV and go "WOW!" at their HD, I look for the DirecTV box, or FIOS if it's in RI.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Same in the ATL, D* is not appreciably better than Comcast. It's definitely local market.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

I've only used DTV at parents and brothers house a handful of times, but think the Roamio is a much snappier responsive dvr than what DTV offers. I can't say what model DTV DVR my parents and brother had though. Maybe they didn't have the newest model. And I didn't use the DTV DVR that extensively. Never did any season passes etc. 

I did think DTV had a better picture quality than what I've seen on cable.

Brother loves DTV, but at this point I think it is mostly about sports (NFL season pass) and him being used to it. He briefly switched to Comcast sometime in the last few years, but hated it. 

Parents had DTV for a few years (because brother always raved about it,) but went back to Comcast because of a good deal they were offered. So good that my Dad left DTV contract early and paid small penalty. And my Dad is pretty cheap. Also parents switched back to Comcast because my Dad hated that DTV would go out once in awhile or have problems due to weather. Snow in winter was a particular problem. DTV mounted the dish on roof which made it difficult for him to get too to clear off snow too. I don't think he had other options for its placement because of all the trees surrounding his home and property.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

trip1eX said:


> Also parents switched back to Comcast because my Dad hated that DTV would go out once in awhile or have problems due to weather. Snow in winter was a particular problem. DTV mounted the dish on roof which made it difficult for him to get too to clear off snow too. I don't think he had other options for its placement because of all the trees surrounding his home and property.


If the dish is mounted properly, weather shouldn't be an issue. In extreme northern climates, you may need a dish heater.


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## beartrap (Nov 8, 2005)

Bigg said:


> If the dish is mounted properly, weather shouldn't be an issue. In extreme northern climates, you may need a dish heater.


What's the proper way to mount the dish to avoid rain fade?


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

beartrap said:


> What's the proper way to mount the dish to avoid rain fade?


It has to be very precisely aimed, both directionally and in terms of tilt, and using a SWiMLine LNB, or if a SWiM 16 is needed, a short quad-coax run to the SWiM 16. The Ka band stuff is way more sensitive than Ku band. It has to be dithered properly, and mounted with both stabilizer bars to solid roof or house or some other type of solid structure. If it's getting "rain fade", i.e. outages, it's not mounted right.


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## Kash76 (Jul 29, 2001)

I rarely had problems with mine


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## beartrap (Nov 8, 2005)

Bigg said:


> It has to be very precisely aimed, both directionally and in terms of tilt, and using a SWiMLine LNB, or if a SWiM 16 is needed, a short quad-coax run to the SWiM 16. The Ka band stuff is way more sensitive than Ku band. It has to be dithered properly, and mounted with both stabilizer bars to solid roof or house or some other type of solid structure. If it's getting "rain fade", i.e. outages, it's not mounted right.


It was a rhetorical question. Sometimes, no matter how "precisely aimed" the dish is, there will be rain fade. And you don't need "extreme northern climates" to have problems with ice and snow blocking a signal. You just need ice and snow.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

beartrap said:


> What's the proper way to mount the dish to avoid rain fade?


Place the dish in the proper location. Southern California for example.


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## Sixto (Sep 16, 2005)

My signature line has the link to the DirecTV comparison.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

beartrap said:


> It was a rhetorical question. Sometimes, no matter how "precisely aimed" the dish is, there will be rain fade. And you don't need "extreme northern climates" to have problems with ice and snow blocking a signal. You just need ice and snow.


There shouldn't be rain fade with a properly installed dishes, and there are a lot of installations out there that don't have rain fade.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

Bigg said:


> There shouldn't be rain fade with a properly installed dishes, and there are a lot of installations out there that don't have rain fade.


Yeah, dry parts of the country!!

I have had Dish and DirecTV over the past year and both have fade with the right cloud and/or rain. Nowhere near as bad as it used to be, but it is still there. It isn't bad enough to worry about in most areas though.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

ej42137 said:


> Place the dish in the proper location. Southern California for example.


LOL, exactly. Always love it when people say that you can avoid rain fade with proper aiming.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

lparsons21 said:


> Yeah, dry parts of the country!!
> 
> I have had Dish and DirecTV over the past year and both have fade with the right cloud and/or rain. Nowhere near as bad as it used to be, but it is still there. It isn't bad enough to worry about in most areas though.


A coworker of mine had DirecTV working during a hurricane, so yes, DirecTV can be very reliable if it's installed correct. If you're getting rain outages, haul back the idiot who installed it and get them to correct their poor quality work.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

Bigg said:


> A coworker of mine had DirecTV working during a hurricane, so yes, DirecTV can be very reliable if it's installed correct. If you're getting rain outages, haul back the idiot who installed it and get them to correct their poor quality work.


This isn't my first rodeo!! 

With both Dish and Direct my signals were very strong and I confirmed that with some sources I have to do some comparisons. So it wasn't an 'idiot' that did the various installs as it was done right. The fact of the matter is that with the right combo of rain/cloud cover you WILL experience some rain fade. Even my local cable company has had it on some fairly rare occasions. I even had it in the days of the BUD!

But again, it isn't enough to lose any sleep over, but it is a fact of satellite service.


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## Sixto (Sep 16, 2005)

Northeast. Significant storm. Most likely rain fade. Nothing to do with alignment. Measured over a 15 year period. Simple as that. Not often, but unavoidable.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

lparsons21 said:


> This isn't my first rodeo!!
> 
> With both Dish and Direct my signals were very strong and I confirmed that with some sources I have to do some comparisons. So it wasn't an 'idiot' that did the various installs as it was done right. The fact of the matter is that with the right combo of rain/cloud cover you WILL experience some rain fade. Even my local cable company has had it on some fairly rare occasions. I even had it in the days of the BUD!
> 
> But again, it isn't enough to lose any sleep over, but it is a fact of satellite service.


It's Bigg's first rodeo though.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

lparsons21 said:


> With both Dish and Direct my signals were very strong and I confirmed that with some sources I have to do some comparisons. So it wasn't an 'idiot' that did the various installs as it was done right. The fact of the matter is that with the right combo of rain/cloud cover you WILL experience some rain fade. Even my local cable company has had it on some fairly rare occasions. I even had it in the days of the BUD!


If you're talking a couple of minutes a year, then that's probably OK. Cable goes out occasionally too. But if it happens on a regular basis, something is wrong. Something being the dish installation.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

Bigg said:


> If you're talking a couple of minutes a year, then that's probably OK. Cable goes out occasionally too. But if it happens on a regular basis, something is wrong. Something being the dish installation.


I've never had it be on a regular basis, just when the right combo of rain/cloud cover occurred. In general, it happens so little that it just isn't a real issue these days for most of the country.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

Rainfade is variable, and not just by how well the dish is aligned. DirecTV uses Ka exclusively for HD, and that is more susceptible to rainfade than the Ku frequencies used for SD and both SD and HD on Dish.

The satellite companies generally quote a reliability factor of between 99.9% and 99.99%, which at worst means about 525 minutes, or 8.75 hours, of outages per year or almost an hour at best. Rainfade is a fact of life of for satellite, but it does really require some very heavy rain or large accumulations of snow (although snow can be effectively dealt with through a dish heater), if properly aimed.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

lparsons21 said:


> I've never had it be on a regular basis, just when the right combo of rain/cloud cover occurred. In general, it happens so little that it just isn't a real issue these days for most of the country.


If it's a couple of minutes a year, then it's probably fine. But much more than that, and there are problems.



Diana Collins said:


> The satellite companies generally quote a reliability factor of between 99.9% and 99.99%, which at worst means about 525 minutes, or 8.75 hours, of outages per year or almost an hour at best.


A properly installed DirecTV dish will push more 9's than even their own claims. They are very conservative in their own claims to play it safe, which is the right thing to do, and most people don't bother to do the math anyway!


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

Bigg said:


> A properly installed DirecTV dish will push more 9's than even their own claims. They are very conservative in their own claims to play it safe, which is the right thing to do, and most people don't bother to do the math anyway!


Sure, but there WILL be rainfade outages. We had years when we hardly saw a single one, and other years when we had an outage almost every week in the summer.

The reason summer is so bad is that summer is thunderstorm season in most of the country and a thunderstorm holds a LOT of water in suspension in the clouds. If a thunderstorm passes through your signal path it can block your signal pretty completely. Since thunder clouds routinely extend to altitudes of 20,000 to 30,000 feet, and can reach as high as 10 miles or more, it doesn't even have to raining at the dish for the signal to go be knocked out. In fact, I don't think we ever had an outage while it was actually raining on the dish.


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