# when will tivo fix "program info will runout on 7-18-2011 connect to tivo" problem



## tootal2

Why cant tivo fix this problem?


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## bradleys

tootal2 said:


> Why cant tivo fix this problem?


I think the problem is on your side. Force a network connection and see if it fails...


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## Lorcane

I had that issue last year, and tried to fix it myself... I bricked my TiVo HD... Make sure you call tech support and let them know whats going on before you try to do anything.


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## [NG]Owner

Reboot your Tivo. That will likely solve it.

[NG]Owner


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## tootal2

[NG]Owner;8609674 said:


> Reboot your Tivo. That will likely solve it.
> 
> [NG]Owner


I know rebooting it will fix it but why cant tivo just fix the the problem. I think its becouse of the tuning adaptor.


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## rodbeezy

tootal2 said:


> I know rebooting it will fix it but why cant tivo just fix the the problem. I think its becouse of the tuning adaptor.


Program info download depends on a stable network connection. The TiVo can't fix your network when its down. 9 times out of 10, your TiVo will automatically connect just fine and download the latest program info. However, if it just so happens that your network is down when the TiVo automatically connects, you'd get the error that you're getting.

Like earlier folks have said, just manually force a connection and all should be well, assuming no problems with your network.


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## rassi

Just started getting this problem today. Status showed successful connection earlier this morning. Forced a connection and I watched it succeed. It still shows the message. I'll force a reboot when we don't have something recording and see if that helps.


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## Worf

Indexing of the updated guide data will take several hours, so a successful connection that got the latest and greatest guide will take several hours for that warning to disappear. If you're lucky the warning will actually start increasing the date.


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## takeshi

rodbeezy said:


> Program info download depends on a stable network connection. The TiVo can't fix your network when its down.


^ This.



tootal2 said:


> I know rebooting it will fix it but why cant tivo just fix the the problem. I think its becouse of the tuning adaptor.


Why would the tuning adapter affect your network?


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## tootal2

takeshi said:


> ^ This.
> 
> Why would the tuning adapter affect your network?


Its not a network problem it has something to do with garbage collection file and the tuning adapter.

GC: is the garbage collection in system information.


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## JACKASTOR

tootal2 said:


> Why cant tivo fix this problem?


I dont have that problem.


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## Kenji

rodbeezy said:


> Like earlier folks have said, just manually force a connection and all should be well, assuming no problems with your network.


This is not necessarily true. Once a year or so, my S3 will get into a mode where it will not connect to the TiVo central server, even if I tell it to do so manually. I don't have to reboot the S3 to get things to work again, but I have to run through Network Setup (or whatever it's called - the menu option that allows you to select an available wireless network and enter its password). Once I do that, I'm good to go.


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## VinceA

There's a thread here that discusses the problem:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=424234

It's not a network issue...


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## tootal2

Tivo needs to fix this. How hard can it be to update the firmware to fix this?

also i hate rebooting my tivo. it stresses me out everytime.


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## vectorcatch

tootal2 said:


> also i hate rebooting my tivo. it stresses me out everytime.


I agree they should fix it and I don't like having to reboot my TiVo either, but to satisfy my curiosity, why does rebooting the TiVo stress you out?


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## tootal2

vectorcatch said:


> I agree they should fix it and I don't like having to reboot my TiVo either, but to satisfy my curiosity, why does rebooting the TiVo stress you out?


Im afraid it might not boot up or get stuck in a powering up reboot loop. I hate when that happens,


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## Teeps

tootal2 said:


> Tivo needs to fix this. How hard can it be to update the firmware to fix this?


Since forcing a connection last week, my S3 has been fine.


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## Teeps

Teeps said:


> Since forcing a connection last week, my S3 has been fine.


Until yesterday; now it says runs out on 27July.
Again a force connection seems to have fixed the message...


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## pmrowley

Yep, been having this issue for a while now, incredibly aggravating, and I don't like to reboot my 4-year old Series 3 either, for fear something breaks during the reboot process.


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## VinceA

Do you have a Tuning Adapter connected to your S3? If so, there's a thread in the Help forum that might be relevant.


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## tootal2

My tivo says the program info will run out on sun 7/31. Will this fix itself before sunday?
Will i need to reboot it? The program guide still has 2 weeks in it. I rebooted my tivo almost 2 weeks ago.

GC: sunday july 17 1:05 pm

thanks


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## Teeps

Teeps said:


> Until yesterday; now it says runs out on 27July.
> Again a force connection seems to have fixed the message...


On 28July2011 TiVo message appeared "no guide data available."

So per advice found here and the other thread. I sent a restart system command. That fixed the guide data message. TiVo is recording fine at this time.

So: is this a Time Warner, Tuning Adapter or TiVo problem?

And ditto whom ever owns this problem; please fix it.


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## tootal2

I have charter cable. but it did started happening after the tuning adaptor was installed. But it use to fix itself. Now its not fixing itself. I think charter made some changes to the tuning adaptor. Looks like i will need to reboot it every 2 weeks forever



Teeps said:


> On 28July2011 TiVo message appeared "no guide data available."
> 
> So per advice found here and the other thread. I sent a restart system command. That fixed the guide data message. TiVo is recording fine at this time.
> 
> So: is this a Time Warner, Tuning Adapter or TiVo problem?
> 
> And ditto whom ever owns this problem; please fix it.


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## VinceA

As far as I can tell, it's a TiVoHD problem interacting with a Cisco TA or a Cisco TA interacting with a TiVoHD. Either way, TiVo hasn't really acknowledged this as a problem and I can't report it 'vigorously' since I've got an upgraded hard drive.


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## Teeps

VinceA said:


> Either way, TiVo hasn't really acknowledged this as a problem and I can't report it 'vigorously' since I've got an upgraded hard drive.


Why would an upgraded HDD matter? 
This is not a hardware warranty problem.


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## VinceA

Once you introduce an unknown element into the equation, TiVo typically balks at dealing with issues like this.


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## Teeps

VinceA said:


> Once you introduce an unknown element into the equation, TiVo typically balks at dealing with issues like this.


I guess they have the right to refuse on that basis.


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## [NG]Owner

tootal2 said:


> I have charter cable. but it did started happening after the tuning adaptor was installed. But it use to fix itself. Now its not fixing itself. I think charter made some changes to the tuning adaptor. Looks like i will need to reboot it every 2 weeks forever


Nope. Just leave it alone. Even after the two weeks, after the Tivo complains that it has no data, it will happily continue to record everything you've told it to. It's all there.

[NG]Owner


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## Teeps

[NG]Owner;8640460 said:


> Nope. Just leave it alone. Even after the two weeks, after the Tivo complains that it has no data, it will happily continue to record everything you've told it to. It's all there.
> 
> [NG]Owner


I was going to do the same. But when I went to find a program to set up a season pass. TiVo said sorry no guide data, go fish...
So I did a "Restart System" and viola; there was guide data.


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## Teeps

And now..... TiVo does not connect to their servers, at all. Failed to connect error S03.

Now what?


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## tootal2

Teeps said:


> And now..... TiVo does not connect to their servers, at all. Failed to connect error S03.
> 
> Now what?


DO NOT rerun the giuied setup you will get stuck in the setup!! 
Tivo says to unplug it from the internet and delete everything in your todo list and maybe all your season passess. Tivo says it should fix itself in 4days.

i had the s03 error on my other tivo hd and thought repeating the guieded setup would fix it. but it got stuck in the guieded setup becouse it could not get passed the s03 error.

I had to replace the drive using a drive image from my other tivo. if you cant copy a drive with a s03 error since you will be making a copy of the s03 error.


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## WO312

I had this issue after I upgraded to 2 TB on my HD. Turns out the GC wasn't updating. I guess GC stands for Garbage Collection or something like that. You can check for GC in the System Information screen, down close to the bottom of the last page. The date should be within a day or 2 of today if it is working.

To fix it, I had to do a delete of everything but my recordings. Don't remember the wording, but it is the one that is just short of Clear and Delete Everything, which will get rid of your recordings. It deletes your program guide and season passes. Strangely, it did not delete all of my passes, but now the recordings done before are orphaned in their own folder. So for recurring recordings, I now have 2 identical folders - one for recordings before and one for recordings after the deleting.

At any rate, things are now working and back to normal, and GC is updating by itself.


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## Teeps

WO312 said:


> I had this issue after I upgraded to 2 TB on my HD. Turns out the GC wasn't updating. I guess GC stands for Garbage Collection or something like that. You can check for GC in the System Information screen, down close to the bottom of the last page. The date should be within a day or 2 of today if it is working.
> 
> To fix it, I had to do a delete of everything but my recordings. Don't remember the wording, but it is the one that is just short of Clear and Delete Everything, which will get rid of your recordings. It deletes your program guide and season passes. Strangely, it did not delete all of my passes, but now the recordings done before are orphaned in their own folder. So for recurring recordings, I now have 2 identical folders - one for recordings before and one for recordings after the deleting.
> 
> At any rate, things are now working and back to normal, and GC is updating by itself.


How soon did things return to normal after the above "cleaning?"

Did you do any thing else?


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## WO312

Teeps said:


> How soon did things return to normal after the above "cleaning?"
> 
> Did you do any thing else?


It's been a few months, but as I recall, I did a manual call to Tivo and just let everything take care of itself. I think it took a day or 2 before everything signaled O.K. I think the Tivo has to do an index before everything registered. But at least I could do a program update without getting the S03 error. And I think I could schedule programs fairly soon, as soon as the data loaded.


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## tootal2

can the problem with the gc: file cause the so3 error? I have to reboot my tivo everyweek becouse of problems with gc file.

and why wont tivo fix this?


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## WO312

tootal2 said:


> can the problem with the gc: file cause the so3 error? I have to reboot my tivo everyweek becouse of problems with gc file.
> 
> and why wont tivo fix this?


In my case, the weekly reboot eventually failed (became S03 problem) and I had to do the delete sequence to fix the GC file problem.

You'll have to ask Tivo why they won't (or can't) fix it.


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## tootal2

WO312 said:


> In my case, the weekly reboot eventually failed (became S03 problem) and I had to do the delete sequence to fix the GC file problem.
> 
> You'll have to ask Tivo why they won't (or can't) fix it.


i have, they say they dont get enough complants about it to fix


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## Teeps

WO312 said:


> To fix it, I had to do a delete of everything but my recordings. Don't remember the wording, but it is the one that is just short of Clear and Delete Everything, which will get rid of your recordings. It deletes your program guide and season passes.


The above appears to have fixed the problem with connecting to TiVo server. I will know more tonight.

Thanks, WO312

So it took TiVo, two calls home, then after chewing on the data over 8 hours. All is back to normal, except there are no season passes, etc...


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## tootal2

I wished i fixed my tivo that way. reruning the guided setup was a bad idea. 
I found out how to fix it his way after my tivo was stuck in the guided setup with no way pass the s03 error.



Teeps said:


> The above appears to have fixed the problem with connecting to TiVo server. I will know more tonight.
> 
> Thanks, WO312
> 
> So it took TiVo, two calls home, then after chewing on the data over 8 hours. All is back to normal, except there are no season passes, etc...


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## Teeps

tootal2 said:


> I wished i fixed my tivo that way. reruning the guided setup was a bad idea.
> I found out how to fix it his way after my tivo was stuck in the guided setup with no way pass the s03 error.


Yea, I feel ya... I was dreading a hdd swap to the point I was thinking of getting a premier box. That is until I found out it still needs a cussed tuning adapter.


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## sushikitten

This is SO frustrating...it's been happening a lot since we moved, so I'm blaming Time Warner (hey, they're easy to blame, lol). I also hate rebooting, because it messes with the TW adapter box and we usually have to reset all our HD channels.


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## Teeps

sushikitten said:


> This is SO frustrating...it's been happening a lot since we moved, so I'm blaming Time Warner (hey, they're easy to blame, lol). I also hate rebooting, because it messes with the TW adapter box and we usually have to reset all our HD channels.


See the instruction WO312 posted above. It worked for me.
I will add this to the instruction:
Do not add any season passes until you see a current date in the GC line in system info screen.
And, current guide data can be viewed and searched.

And what ever you do, DO NOT run GUIDED SETUP ...


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## sushikitten

Teeps said:


> See the instruction WO312 posted above. It worked for me.
> I will add this to the instruction:
> Do not add any season passes until you see a current date in the GC line in system info screen.
> And, current guide data can be viewed and searched.
> 
> And what ever you do, DO NOT run GUIDED SETUP ...


I saw that but it makes me cry as we have about 70 SPs.


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## tootal2

sushikitten said:


> This is SO frustrating...it's been happening a lot since we moved, so I'm blaming Time Warner (hey, they're easy to blame, lol). I also hate rebooting, because it messes with the TW adapter box and we usually have to reset all our HD channels.


Everybody needs to complain to tivo so they will fix this problem. I have to reboot my tivo every 2 weeks becouse of this problem


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## Teeps

sushikitten said:


> I saw that but it makes me cry as we have about 70 SPs.


Take a digital photo of the screen(s.) 
It's not that bad... Think of it like cleaning out the garage or the basement.


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## Teeps

tootal2 said:


> Everybody needs to complain to tivo so they will fix this problem. I have to reboot my tivo every 2 weeks becouse of this problem


Does the GC date (seen on 2nd sys/info screen) change daily?

If not you might try the delete everything but the recordings, as I did. So far the GC changes daily.


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## tootal2

The date of the gc file was last sunday I i rebooted it today and my said powering up for about 2 mins then restarted over and over never getting past the powing up. i unpluged everything from the back of the tivo hd and got it to reboot

It was a very stressful hour. I hope tivo fixes this soon.

I might try deleting everything next time but i have over 200 season passes.



Teeps said:


> Does the GC date (seen on 2nd sys/info screen) change daily?
> 
> If not you might try the delete everything but the recordings, as I did. So far the GC changes daily.


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## WO312

tootal2 said:


> The date of the gc file was last sunday I i rebooted it today and my said powering up for about 2 mins then restarted over and over never getting past the powing up. i unpluged everything from the back of the tivo hd and got it to reboot
> 
> It was a very stressful hour. I hope tivo fixes this soon.
> 
> I might try deleting everything next time but i have over 200 season passes.


Here's my theory. I googled GC and came up with this from a 2005 TCF post: " It most definitely is Garbage Collection, and it has to do with cleaning up the old guide data from the databases, along with deleting data from unlisted references and so on. The point being that it cleans up the drive."

When I got my S03 error, and guide data would no longer update, my last GC date was many weeks old. So my theory is that the Tivo eventually becomes clogged with old guide data, etc., and can no longer update.

So for you, last Sunday is not that bad. My suspicion, though, is that if it stays on that date in the future, in several weeks you will also get the S03 error and will be forced to do a clear and delete. YMMV.


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## tootal2

I wonder if i can delete all my cable season passes and keep all my antenna season passes?



WO312 said:


> Here's my theory. I googled GC and came up with this from a 2005 TCF post: " It most definitely is Garbage Collection, and it has to do with cleaning up the old guide data from the databases, along with deleting data from unlisted references and so on. The point being that it cleans up the drive."
> 
> When I got my S03 error, and guide data would no longer update, my last GC date was many weeks old. So my theory is that the Tivo eventually becomes clogged with old guide data, etc., and can no longer update.
> 
> So for you, last Sunday is not that bad. My suspicion, though, is that if it stays on that date in the future, in several weeks you will also get the S03 error and will be forced to do a clear and delete. YMMV.


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## VinceA

I've found that these things help the issue before it gets to the S03 state:
- keep your Deleted Items folder empty by manually deleting stuff from it
- manually reset your TA (unplug power, wait 15-30 seconds, replug power), wait a day and see if the GC date advances. If not, try again.

I do the first until the second yields results (GC advances automatically daily). It took about a week or so until the second option finally 'took'. Royal pain in the butt...


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## WO312

VinceA said:


> I've found that these things help the issue before it gets to the S03 state:
> - keep your Deleted Items folder empty by manually deleting stuff from it
> - manually reset your TA (unplug power, wait 15-30 seconds, replug power), wait a day and see if the GC date advances. If not, try again.
> 
> I do the first until the second yields results (GC advances automatically daily). It took about a week or so until the second option finally 'took'. Royal pain in the butt...


Interesting. May be a pain in the butt, but certainly less so than re-creating all your season passes.


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## tootal2

i did a clear program information & todo list. And now the CG: date is thursday december 31 6:00 pm. Will that fix itself? Also it says program info has run out! connect to the tivo service. But the guide seems full till 9-2-11. Guess this will go away.


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## VinceA

Yes, it will. 12/31 is a place holder until the first GC happens.


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## Teeps

Mine was ok until I noticed on Saturday 20Aug11, that GC was stuck on 18Aug11. Guide data good until 28Aug11. There were successful service connections each day, including a forced connection, yesterday.

This morning I contacted TiVo support (via chat) about the guide data and GC.
The agent reviewed my account settings (their side) and said that my channel lineup was set to "Primary" and that it sould be set to "Digital."
So.... I followed this instructions* to fix the channel line up. Not sure how long it took for this to happen. But, as of right now (4hrs later) GC is updated to today's date and guide data is good to 5Sept11.

I suppose changing the channel line up, is similar to guided setup. But never specifically selected "Guided Setup."

*INSTRUCTIONS:
go to messages & settings>
settings>
channels>
channel list>
press enter button?
from there I was on my own but I chose to fix the line up and selected "cable."> (I use both cable and ota.)

The TiVo did the rest...

As a side note: I had permanently deleted all "deleted" files before doing the above.


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## WO312

Teeps said:


> Mine was ok until I noticed on Saturday 20Aug11, that GC was stuck on 18Aug11. Guide data good until 28Aug11. There were successful service connections each day, including a forced connection, yesterday.
> 
> This morning I contacted TiVo support (via chat) about the guide data and GC.
> The agent reviewed my account settings (their side) and said that my channel lineup was set to "Primary" and that it sould be set to "Digital."
> So.... I followed this instructions* to fix the channel line up. Not sure how long it took for this to happen. But, as of right now (4hrs later) GC is updated to today's date and guide data is good to 5Sept11.
> 
> I suppose changing the channel line up, is similar to guided setup. But never specifically selected "Guided Setup."
> 
> *INSTRUCTIONS:
> go to messages & settings>
> settings>
> channels>
> channel list>
> press enter button?
> from there I was on my own but I chose to fix the line up and selected "cable."> (I use both cable and ota.)
> 
> The TiVo did the rest...
> 
> As a side note: I had permanently deleted all "deleted" files before doing the above.


I don't think it is at all unusual for the GC to be a couple of days behind. I"m pretty sure it would have updated itself. After my S03 fix I have kept a close watch on GC and that is normal behavior. Although I am surprised about the guide data dates. Hope what you did fixed it permanently.

Right now, on the 22nd, my GC says Aug 20 and my guide data is Sept 3.


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## Phantom Gremlin

sushikitten said:


> I saw that but it makes me cry as we have about 70 SPs.


Here's a vague hint that may help you. Perhaps you can search various forums here and find the details.

There's something you can "opt in" to on TiVo that will save your season passes for you. It's not interesting to me because I don't want TiVo to have even more information about me than they already have.

But it's something like improved search, or KidZone, or ???. I don't really remember what, I do know that it *will* recover season passes for you when you change TiVos (so presumably it would also work in this case).

Sorry to be vague, maybe you can search and find more info. But like I said, I'd rather re-input the passes, that's just how stupid/ornery I am.


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## WO312

WO312 said:


> I don't think it is at all unusual for the GC to be a couple of days behind. I"m pretty sure it would have updated itself. After my S03 fix I have kept a close watch on GC and that is normal behavior. Although I am surprised about the guide data dates. Hope what you did fixed it permanently.
> 
> Right now, on the 22nd, my GC says Aug 20 and my guide data is Sept 3.


As a reference point, right now, on the morning of the 23rd, my GC now says Aug 23 and my guide data is Sept 4.


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## WO312

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Here's a vague hint that may help you. Perhaps you can search various forums here and find the details.
> 
> There's something you can "opt in" to on TiVo that will save your season passes for you. It's not interesting to me because I don't want TiVo to have even more information about me than they already have.
> 
> But it's something like improved search, or KidZone, or ???. I don't really remember what, I do know that it *will* recover season passes for you when you change TiVos (so presumably it would also work in this case).
> 
> Sorry to be vague, maybe you can search and find more info. But like I said, I'd rather re-input the passes, that's just how stupid/ornery I am.


Excellent point. I had forgotten that was possible.

Edit: Did a little searching. Not sure it will work in this case. If you put a new drive in your Tivo, it will populate it with your passes. Or you can transfer passes between boxes. But I did not find an option to re-install passes on a box where you deleted them. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Teeps

WO312 said:


> Excellent point. I had forgotten that was possible.
> 
> Edit: Did a little searching. Not sure it will work in this case. If you put a new drive in your Tivo, it will populate it with your passes. Or you can transfer passes between boxes. But I did not find an option to re-install passes on a box where you deleted them. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.


I noticed optin on the system info screen and wondered what that meant.

I should know the answer, about season passes, soon as the 2TB drive is installed.

Man if TiVo Central Online can do that, it would be great...


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## Eccles

Glad I found this thread. I too am experiencing the guide data warning problem on my TiVo HD with an mCard and a Cisco TA. Restarting the TiVo gets rid of the warning for a while, but it returns after another couple of weeks or so. And eventually, after doing this little dance a dozen or so times, I get an S03 error.

This has happened three times now - the first time I wound up re-imaging my drive, but the last couple of times I've "got away" with doing a Clear and Delete All. Still a major PITA.

Right now, I've just restarted it for probably the third time after the latest S03. I hadn't noticed the GC date, but now that I look at it, it's showing July 24. The theory that GC is getting overwhelmed by the amount of work might also explain why this tends (correct me if I'm wrong) to affect folks with larger drives to a greater extent. I had over 60 items in my Recently Deleted folder, which I cleared before restarting this time after reading this thread.

I'll keep a close eye on the GC date - although manually cleaning up the deletions is a hassle, it's nowhere near the pain of having to recreate my SP's and WL's and explain to the wife that her archive of cooking shows has been lost (again).


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## WO312

Eccles said:


> Glad I found this thread. I too am experiencing the guide data warning problem on my TiVo HD with an mCard and a Cisco TA. Restarting the TiVo gets rid of the warning for a while, but it returns after another couple of weeks or so. And eventually, after doing this little dance a dozen or so times, I get an S03 error.
> 
> This has happened three times now - the first time I wound up re-imaging my drive, but the last couple of times I've "got away" with doing a Clear and Delete All. Still a major PITA.
> 
> Right now, I've just restarted it for probably the third time after the latest S03. I hadn't noticed the GC date, but now that I look at it, it's showing July 24. The theory that GC is getting overwhelmed by the amount of work might also explain why this tends (correct me if I'm wrong) to affect folks with larger drives to a greater extent. I had over 60 items in my Recently Deleted folder, which I cleared before restarting this time after reading this thread.
> 
> I'll keep a close eye on the GC date - although manually cleaning up the deletions is a hassle, it's nowhere near the pain of having to recreate my SP's and WL's and explain to the wife that her archive of cooking shows has been lost (again).


Wow. Very troublesome to me that you continue to have S03 problems even after clearing and deleting everything. In my experience, that didn't happen.........yet.

I have quite a few items in my deleted folder, but I'm still updating O.K. Time will tell........

Everything seems to point to a tuning adapter problem. If you continue to have problems, try playing with it.


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## tootal2

I think you have to keep your tivo unpluged from the internet when you get a so3 error so it can work thur the backlog of info.



WO312 said:


> Wow. Very troublesome to me that you continue to have S03 problems even after clearing and deleting everything. In my experience, that didn't happen.........yet.
> 
> I have quite a few items in my deleted folder, but I'm still updating O.K. Time will tell........
> 
> Everything seems to point to a tuning adapter problem. If you continue to have problems, try playing with it.


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## tootal2

Keep your tivo unpluged from the internet for a week so it can work thru all the info it has downloaded. Thats what tivo says to do.



Eccles said:


> Glad I found this thread. I too am experiencing the guide data warning problem on my TiVo HD with an mCard and a Cisco TA. Restarting the TiVo gets rid of the warning for a while, but it returns after another couple of weeks or so. And eventually, after doing this little dance a dozen or so times, I get an S03 error.
> 
> This has happened three times now - the first time I wound up re-imaging my drive, but the last couple of times I've "got away" with doing a Clear and Delete All. Still a major PITA.
> 
> Right now, I've just restarted it for probably the third time after the latest S03. I hadn't noticed the GC date, but now that I look at it, it's showing July 24. The theory that GC is getting overwhelmed by the amount of work might also explain why this tends (correct me if I'm wrong) to affect folks with larger drives to a greater extent. I had over 60 items in my Recently Deleted folder, which I cleared before restarting this time after reading this thread.
> 
> I'll keep a close eye on the GC date - although manually cleaning up the deletions is a hassle, it's nowhere near the pain of having to recreate my SP's and WL's and explain to the wife that her archive of cooking shows has been lost (again).


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## baijumehta

I just initiated this process. Hopefully this will resolve the losing connection to Tivo issue. One thing I noticed is that all my Tivo Suggestions were from prior to July 2nd, which is when my GC said it was last updated.

I guess i will find out in a day or two.

Thanks for the help



WO312 said:


> I had this issue after I upgraded to 2 TB on my HD. Turns out the GC wasn't updating. I guess GC stands for Garbage Collection or something like that. You can check for GC in the System Information screen, down close to the bottom of the last page. The date should be within a day or 2 of today if it is working.
> 
> To fix it, I had to do a delete of everything but my recordings. Don't remember the wording, but it is the one that is just short of Clear and Delete Everything, which will get rid of your recordings. It deletes your program guide and season passes. Strangely, it did not delete all of my passes, but now the recordings done before are orphaned in their own folder. So for recurring recordings, I now have 2 identical folders - one for recordings before and one for recordings after the deleting.
> 
> At any rate, things are now working and back to normal, and GC is updating by itself.


----------



## Teeps

As of yesterday my TiVo S3 wsaupgraded with a 2TB internal drive from dvr_dude.
TiVo Series 3 TCD648250B Hard Drive Upgrade 2TB WD AVGP

The dance starts over.


----------



## tootal2

why did you get a new drive? were you unable to fix the s03 error? Deleteing my todo list and season passes seems to have fixed the problem with the GC file. the date has been changing on the gc file by itself



Teeps said:


> As of yesterday my TiVo S3 wsaupgraded with a 2TB internal drive from dvr_dude.
> TiVo Series 3 TCD648250B Hard Drive Upgrade 2TB WD AVGP
> 
> The dance starts over.


----------



## Teeps

tootal2 said:


> why did you get a new drive?


I wanted more storage.
NOTE: This problem was occurring before the HDD upgrade.
In another thread (here S3 forum) I learned a 2TB internal drive is possible... So I stepped up $179 delivered to my door. Open up TiVo install preconditioned drive, guided setup, authorize cable card & "the cussed tuning adapter" viola 318 hours of HD storage.
And.......
One less wall wart, one less drive, 2 fewer connections.

The So3 error was corrected by the delete "to do" and "season pass" at the time the old drives were pulled.


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## pjoner

I have the same setup (TiVo hd, cisco ta and m card) and it is sad that it has come to the point where a TiVo needs to be rebooted on a weekly basis. In addition TiVo seems to be making no effort to resolve.


----------



## tootal2

pjoner said:


> I have the same setup (TiVo hd, cisco ta and m card) and it is sad that it has come to the point where a TiVo needs to be rebooted on a weekly basis. In addition TiVo seems to be making no effort to resolve.


Call tivo and complane about it. they say they dont get enough complants to fix it.

You can delete all your season passes and todo list to fix it. seems to have worked for me for now


----------



## Teeps

Well..... here we go again.
As of this morning GC is still reading Sunday 28Aug2011. TiVo is successfully to connecting to the server daily; it appears to be loading guide data.
I repeated the channel fix per instructions from TiVo support (see pg.2 this thread) this morning.
I'll know more later today.

tootal2,
Potential hard drive failure does not seem to be the problem.

This whole fiasco is really starting to stink.


----------



## tootal2

my tivo says program info will run outon fri 9/9!

The GC: date is saturday august 27

Is there anything else i can try to fix this problem?


----------



## Teeps

tootal2 said:


> my tivo says program info will run outon fri 9/9!
> 
> The GC: date is saturday august 27
> 
> Is there anything else i can try to fix this problem?


Did you try the channel fix?

*INSTRUCTIONS:
go to messages & settings>
settings>
channels>
channel list>
press enter button?

Have 30 to 45 minutes for this procedure, up front, as you have to answer some questions. Once TiVo connects to the server. Turn the tv off and walk away for a couple of hours..


----------



## Eccles

Teeps said:


> Did you try the channel fix?
> 
> *INSTRUCTIONS:
> go to messages & settings>
> settings>
> channels>
> channel list>
> press enter button?
> 
> Have 30 to 45 minutes for this procedure, up front, as you have to answer some questions. Once TiVo connects to the server. Turn the tv off and walk away for a couple of hours..


*Yes!*

My GC date was stuck firmly on July 24th, but after going through the "change channel line-up" procedure it's updated to today. It only took me about 5 minutes to go through the "twenty questions", as I simply pressed Select to take all the default answers, which retained not only my current line-up but also my premium channels, favorites, and deselected channels. It then sat at "Preparing..." for about an hour before connecting to get the "new" line-up info. The new GC timestamp corresponds to that period, so it appears that this procedure forces a manual Garbage Collection. Great to know.

That's about as painless as it gets - thank you! Hopefully it'll keep up now, as long as I keep my Recently Deleted clear.


----------



## Teeps

Will it hold and the GC continue to update daily or bi-daily?

That is the question....

I guess we'll know in a week or so.


----------



## tootal2

did that work teeps? does it run the guied setup? does it reboot? I might try it this weekend



Teeps said:


> Will it hold and the GC continue to update daily or bi-daily?
> 
> That is the question....
> 
> I guess we'll know in a week or so.


----------



## tootal2

My tivo seems to have fixed itself. the gc date is now 9-3


----------



## Teeps

tootal2 said:


> did that work teeps? does it run the guied setup? does it reboot? I might try it this weekend


Just did the channel repair yesterday morning.
I'll know more in a week.

The channel repair seems similar to guided setup but....

TiVo does not reboot.

It does sit on the connecting screen until it's finished downloading the data.
That is; you can't do nuth'n else whilst TiVo is processing.


----------



## Eccles

Teeps said:


> The channel repair seems similar to guided setup but....
> 
> TiVo does not reboot.


It also doesn't lose your favorites, premiums, or deselected channels like Guided Setup does.


----------



## Eccles

Update: Almost a week after successfully doing the "change channel lineup" trick, and despite clearing out my Recently Deleted every night, my GC timestamp was stuck at the time I changed the lineup. Yesterday evening, I unplugged and replugged my TA, and today my GC timestamp has updated to around 9am this morning. Coincidence or not, I don't know, but I'll be unplugging my TA every few days from now on.


----------



## VinceA

After resetting the TA, give it a day or two and see if the GC gets advanced. If it does, leave the TA alone and see if it keeps updating. I can usually get things rolling correctly after a few TA resets.

Have you reported this problem to TiVo via their online system? I have and I'd love to see more reports get filed so TiVo might realize this is actually a problem:
http://support.tivo.com/app/ask

The reference number for my open case is 110821-002616


----------



## Eccles

VinceA said:


> After resetting the TA, give it a day or two and see if the GC gets advanced. If it does, leave the TA alone and see if it keeps updating. I can usually get things rolling correctly after a few TA resets.
> 
> Have you reported this problem to TiVo via their online system? I have and I'd love to see more reports get filed so TiVo might realize this is actually a problem:
> http://support.tivo.com/app/ask
> 
> The reference number for my open case is 110821-002616


I'll keep an eye on it, but in the meantime I just added my voice to the crowd: case# 110908-009792


----------



## Teeps

Just checked mine and the GC is still on Sept 2.

Additionally since then the TA has been powered down (cord pulled) and usb disconnected/reconnected. (swapped shorter cables.) GC still stuck...

I'm going to try resetting the line up again.
I had 2 choices for time warner, so I am selecting the other option and see what happens.


----------



## tootal2

Mine gc was stuck on tuesday. so i unpluged my tivo from the internet and i permanently deleted everything in my recently deleted folder and now my gc is saturday 9-10-11



Teeps said:


> Just checked mine and the GC is still on Sept 2.
> 
> Additionally since then the TA has been powered down (cord pulled) and usb disconnected/reconnected. (swapped shorter cables.) GC still stuck...
> 
> I'm going to try resetting the line up again.
> I had 2 choices for time warner, so I am selecting the other option and see what happens.


----------



## VinceA

You should file a report about it. I really want to see TiVo acknowledge this issue since it's obviously not a one-off.


----------



## Teeps

VinceA said:


> You should file a report about it. I really want to see TiVo acknowledge this issue since it's obviously not a one-off.


Yes, I did file a report.

Below is the response I received yesterday by email.
The text in red I find most interesting. Especially since I do have a cussed tuning adapter connected and it is working, which logically leads me to believe this is a TiVo problem...

Has anyone else with this problem been told the same about the tuning adapter?

In your email you noted a strong correlation between the installation of a Digital Tuning Adapter from Time Warner and the issues obtaining guide information. Our systems show that your unit has been successfully connecting to the TiVo service. Program guide information is downloaded to the the TiVo through the course of these connections.

However our systems do not indicate that your unit has been hooked up with a Digital Tuning Adapter. I am also showing that your unit is currently on Time Warner Cable, Torrance primary lineup. If the unit thinks its on a primary (basic) lineup then it would not recognize the need for a tuning adapter. The "unnecessary" equipment could potentially interrupt the units protocols when attempting to pull guide information.

My suggestion would to eject your cable cards, (temporally) and repeat the entire Guided Setup on your TiVo. You can access the Guided Setup by going to TiVo Central > Messages & Settings > Help > Restart or Reset System > Repeat Guided Setup. Once the Guided Setup is started reinsert your cable cards. The unit should recognized that cable cards are installed and ask you questions to determine your lineup. Once you have completed the Guided Setup and are on the correct lineup, the system should recognize the tuning adapter. You can check for the tuning adapter by going to Messages & Settings > Account and System Information > Tuning Adapter. Once everything is corrected within the system, I expect that the issues you have had with obtaining guide information should be resolved.


----------



## Eccles

The reply I got today was a little more hopeful:

"We do apologize that you are having issues with your TiVo HD not updating the program information. What we recommend if you have this issue again is unplugging the Tuning Adapter again and also repeating the guided setup on your TiVo box. We do thank you for the information that you have provided and will pass the information along that you have provided to us to have this looked into further. We do thank you for you patience and being a dedicated TiVo customer. If you have any further questions please contact us back."

I wonder of they actually will pass it up the food chain or if they're just blowing smoke.


----------



## tootal2

Maybe they will fix this problem with the fall update? Maybe if i upgraded to the tivo Premiere ths problem will go away? I could put my lifetime tivo hd in my bedroom



Eccles said:


> The reply I got today was a little more hopeful:
> 
> "We do apologize that you are having issues with your TiVo HD not updating the program information. What we recommend if you have this issue again is unplugging the Tuning Adapter again and also repeating the guided setup on your TiVo box. We do thank you for the information that you have provided and will pass the information along that you have provided to us to have this looked into further. We do thank you for you patience and being a dedicated TiVo customer. If you have any further questions please contact us back."
> 
> I wonder of they actually will pass it up the food chain or if they're just blowing smoke.


----------



## Eccles

Eccles said:


> Yesterday evening, I unplugged and replugged my TA, and today my GC timestamp has updated to around 9am this morning. Coincidence or not, I don't know, but I'll be unplugging my TA every few days from now on.


Perhaps simply keeping Recently Deleted cleaned out is sufficient once GC has resumed normal operation - I haven't unplugged my TA since I posted this on the 8th, and today the GC date had advanced to the 11th.


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## VinceA

Once GC is back to normal, you don't have to do anything. Things just work. That's the way things are for me right now until the next restart or unwanted TA reboot.


----------



## Teeps

VinceA said:


> Once GC is back to normal, you don't have to do anything. Things just work. That's the way things are for me right now until the next restart or unwanted TA reboot.


Agree, it's just getting GC to work is the problem.

Still is with mine.
TiVo continues to tell me to rerun guided setup because their records show my TiVo is set to primary service, not digital...

I've requested, 2 time, step by step instructions. As they relate to cable card installation and tuning adapter connection, and still I am not sure of how they want it done.


----------



## Teeps

The latest from TiVo support:
remove both cable cards
disconnect tuning adapter.
run guided setup, follow the on screen instructions.

I did this yesterday afternoon and into the evening.
As expected GC has yesterday's date.
Guide data cached until 30 Sept.
TiVo did not reboot, did not wipe season passes or to do list.

I will know more next week...


----------



## Teeps

As of this morning, GC is still showing Friday 16Sept2011 @ 5:30PM.

I'll give it a few more days, then contact TiVo support again.


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## tootal2

Did you lose your cable card info when you did this? My cg date is 9-16. My tivo seems to be running fine. i havent rebooted it in a long time.

also you should delete everything in the recently deleted folder and delete all old shows



Teeps said:


> The latest from TiVo support:
> remove both cable cards
> disconnect tuning adapter.
> run guided setup, follow the on screen instructions.
> 
> I did this yesterday afternoon and into the evening.
> As expected GC has yesterday's date.
> Guide data cached until 30 Sept.
> TiVo did not reboot, did not wipe season passes or to do list.
> 
> I will know more next week...


----------



## RMBittner

PMFJI, but I just discovered this thread.

Not that it'll help anyone, but I can say that my first-gen S3 (2006) -- two CableCARDS, no tuning adapter -- has never had this issue. Clearly, there are a number of variables involved, given the different S3s out there and the variety of cable-company equipment that may be required, but I can say that this isn't a universal issue.

Bob


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## VinceA

The problem only occurs on, as far as I've been able to gather, TiVoHDs with Cisco tuning adapters. Since you don't have that combo, you wouldn't see it.... but the combo seems to be common enough out there.


----------



## Teeps

tootal2 said:


> Did you lose your cable card info when you did this?


No.

Latest email exchange with TiVo support. They still say that their info shows my TiVo S3 is linked to Time Warner primary service.
That, it needs to be linked to Time Warner Southbay-Gardena,CA Digital, of which I have not seen as an option when viewing channel lineups.
The latest agent has added an additional step, which I hope is the answer...

I will post that info when I know if it works.


----------



## Teeps

TiVo is now saying I'm on the correct channel lineup; but GC stays stuck on what ever date the channel repair is done.

At this point I'm worn out dealing with this problem.
Just going to limp along, using the work around, until the 4 tuner unit is available... :down:


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## ravingfans

Through a LOT of trail and error, I've discovered increasing the swap space to 2000 or 2GB allows TiVo to connect to the TiVo Servers and process the large program guide data update. I don't know if you can do this on an existing disk--seems doubtful to me. I used WinMFS on a new disk and have had no problems since. On the same disk I had the trouble with smaller swap partitions, especially the default.


----------



## Teeps

Interestingly enough after disconnecting TiVo from the internet for 3 days, after doing the the line up fix. The GC on my S3 updated itself from Monday 26Sept to Wednesday 28Sept.

So anecdotally (for me) the disconnection from the internet appears to have a positive effect. Whether it's permanent is still the question.
And, disconnecting from internet is even easier than doing any of the other temporary fixes.

Here's what was done:
Do channel line up "fix." (if it's been done before use all the defaults.)
Uncheck all unused channels in new line up.
Force a service connection.
After service connection is completed; disconnect TiVo from internet until the GC date changes on its own. This could take a couple of days.
Reconnect TiVo to internet.


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## trackie999

Teeps,

Teeps clarified that his GC Date updates.


> Channel Line Up Fix updates the GC Date for me. Your note makes it sound like it does not update for you during Channel Line Up Fix?


I think what you found is very possible!
Based on my "research"
Process called dbgc is responsible for *BOTH* indexing and garbage collection.

When you do a "Channel Line Up" Fix, this triggers:
- Invalidates all existing guide data.
- During preparing to connect phase dbgc is kicked off in Garbage Collection mode
- During organizing phase (after download and loading) dbgc is kicked off in Quicky index mode. (This causes it to index a day's worth of guide data.)
- Once Quicky indexing is done a GC_INDEX_SOON message is sent to dbgc

Regular daily calls:
- guide data is not invalidated
- preparing to connect phase is not kicking off a GC. - And organizing phase doesn't kick off any indexing.
- Once daily call is complete a GC_INDEX_SOON is sent to dbgc

Eventually GC_INDEX_SOON will kick off dbgc in both cases.
BUT, after "Channel Line Up" fix it only triggers a full index without GC.
After Daily call it triggers a Garbage Collect *AND* Index together.

When GC runs during "Channel Line Up" fix, all the guide data is invalidated and it runs fairly "quick". I think when GC runs during daily call it takes forever because it is trying to validate all existing guide data. (Otherwise you could not browse the guide or season passes wouldn't record). During this run garbage collection DOES complete and Tivo begins to index guide data. However it cannot finish before next daily call. When next daily call comes around dbgc process is told to quite. Because GC & Indexing wasn't completed (just GC) the exit code is not success -> GC Date is not update, Guide to Date is not updated.

Disconnecting the network connection causes it to never kick off because connection status is checked prior to initiating a call. If daily call is not initiated, dbgc is never told to give up. (I have about 10 days worth of logs and I have yet to see dbgc complete with both fEnableIndexingM=1 fEnableGcM=1 flags on, but I see it complete no problem when only one of those flags is set)

I think this may be a viable solution for **some** people. I use my network connection religiously to transfer shows between tivos & pcs and could not leave my network cable unplugged (I will look if I can restrict my tivo's network port from going past my local lan)

You may have found an improved *BANDAID*.



Teeps said:


> Interestingly enough after disconnecting TiVo from the internet for 3 days, after doing the the line up fix. The GC on my S3 updated itself from Monday 26Sept to Wednesday 28Sept.
> 
> So anecdotally (for me) the disconnection from the internet appears to have a positive effect. Whether it's permanent is still the question.
> And, disconnecting from internet is even easier than doing any of the other temporary fixes.
> 
> Here's what was done:
> Do channel line up "fix." (if it's been done before use all the defaults.)
> Uncheck all unused channels in new line up.
> Force a service connection.
> After service connection is completed; disconnect TiVo from internet until the GC date changes on its own. This could take a couple of days.
> Reconnect TiVo to internet.


----------



## MC Hammer

trackie999, is there any evidence of what IS taking place during Preparing on daily conmections? I've always wondered why the length of time on that stage of the connection seems to vary so much.


----------



## Teeps

trackie999 said:


> Teeps,
> 
> Channel Line Up Fix updates the GC Date for me. Your note makes it sound like it does not update for you during Channel Line Up Fix?


My bad. 
The GC date changes, to that of, when Channel Line Up fix is run. But, it sticks on the new GC date until... the Channel Line Up fix is repeated...

Or,

Until disconnecting TiVo from internet as stated. (Thanks to Tootal2 for the internet d/c tip.)


----------



## trackie999

I was able to set up my router to block one of my TivoHD's access to tivo's guide server at 204.176.49.2 except on Wednesdays. 

Blocking this IP address is enough to make daily call fail, but allows other services like Netflix and Youtube to keep working. (I initially blocked the entire 204.176.49.x subnet and neither Netflix or Youtube would work)

GC Date on this Tivo is currently stock on 9/23. I will let it cook for a couple days now....


----------



## trackie999

MC Hammer- I'll answer this question, but I'd like to keep this thread on topic.
I believe there are 6 different types of calls with phases 1-8 (phase 0 is call not active). Not all phases happen during each call.

Phase 1 - Call is started, compress and encrypt various log files
Compile list of TV Stations (~7.5mins for my trimmed down 604 stations)
Garbage Collect during set up type calls. (This can vary wildly)
Phase 2 - I do not recall what this phase is. (my calls never have a phase 2)
Phase 3 - Make connection, with ethernet it takes maybe 1 second
Phase 4 - Connect + authenticate + set clock + upload files
Phase 5 - Download guide & other files
Phase 6 - Hang up / Disconnect
Phase 7 - Loading Data 0% -> 100%, Strange thing is GC is disabled, Enabled twice during this process. Why not just keep it off?
Phase 8 - Organizing Phase (run quick indexing after a channel list / guided set up)
Update Call Results, set dates. If successful, update dates send GC_INDEX_SOON request to dbgc.
Phase 0 - Call done / No call Active

So compiling channel list and a potential GC can make "preparing to connect" take forever.



MC Hammer said:


> trackie999, is there any evidence of what IS taking place during Preparing on daily conmections? I've always wondered why the length of time on that stage of the connection seems to vary so much.


----------



## pninen

Thank you for all the good info.

So sad that TiVo hasn't been able to figure this out sooner. I placed several calls to TiVo a couple of months ago about the S03 problem, and they don't know this stuff. They kept telling me to run kickstart 57 and delete everything (requiring four hours of manually reentering season passes).


----------



## pninen

Teeps said:


> Did you try the channel fix?
> 
> *INSTRUCTIONS:
> go to messages & settings>
> settings>
> channels>
> channel list>
> press enter button?
> 
> Have 30 to 45 minutes for this procedure, up front, as you have to answer some questions. Once TiVo connects to the server. Turn the tv off and walk away for a couple of hours..


I just did this. Answered the questions (default answers)

It's been "preparing..." for 1hr 30min so far.

How long do I wait?

When should I give up and reboot?


----------



## trackie999

pninen,
It may take up to 12 hours for preparing to connect, be patient.


pninen said:


> I just did this. Answered the questions (default answers)
> 
> It's been "preparing..." for 1hr 30min so far.
> 
> How long do I wait?
> 
> When should I give up and reboot?


----------



## WO312

This past Monday I returned from an extended vacation. Before I left, I was having the GC problem, but the channel change fix from Teeps was fixing it. I disconnected the tuning adapter before I left. 11 days later when I returned, the GC was totally current, but I had missed some recording on channels that I did not realize were SDV. I had assumed only HD channels were affected, but this was a plain digital channel. I guess TWC really needs the bandwidth. Since I have turned on the tuning adapter, the symptoms have returned.

At any rate, this totally confirms for me, which we already knew, that the tuning adapter is the culprit. What I don't understand is why does it only affect an apparently small number of users? For me, it started last April when I upgraded from a 1 TB drive to a 2 TB drive. I have no idea why - plenty of others have also upgraded with no problems - I assume SOME of those people have tuning adapters. And why was the 1 TB upgrade working perfectly?

I'm waiting to hear from Teeps if the internet disconnect does anything permanent. It makes sense to me that it would work one time based on what trackie999 said about timing of GC updates, but it would seem that once the internet was back to being connected permanently, the symptoms would return.

We shall see. In the meantime, the channel fix seems to be the best solution. Thanks Teeps.


----------



## Teeps

WO312 said:


> I'm waiting to hear from Teeps if the internet disconnect does anything permanent.


:down: No joy.
I just checked GC and it was still at Wednesday 28Sept2011.

TiVo had successfully connected to internet Sunday 2Oct2011 @ 0242 hrs PST.
The internet was disconnected today @ 0803 hrs PST.
Note: At this time, the "Channel Line Up" fix was not executed.

Should know in a couple of days if GC changes.


----------



## WO312

Teeps said:


> :down: No joy.
> I just checked GC and it was still at Wednesday 28Sept2011.
> 
> TiVo had successfully connected to internet Sunday 2Oct2011 @ 0242 hrs PST.
> The internet was disconnected today @ 0803 hrs PST.
> Note: At this time, the "Channel Line Up" fix was not executed.
> 
> Should know in a couple of days if GC changes.


I predict that it will change. Then when you re-connect it will fail again.

I'm debating whether the best fix for me is to do the channel fix every few days or disconnect for a day or two every few days.


----------



## tootal2

You can permanently delete everythng in the recently deleted folder. it does seem to help.

Just press clear and then press select to delete the programs



WO312 said:


> I predict that it will change. Then when you re-connect it will fail again.
> 
> I'm debating whether the best fix for me is to do the channel fix every few days or disconnect for a day or two every few days.


----------



## WO312

tootal2 said:


> You can permanently delete everythng in the recently deleted folder. it does seem to help.
> 
> Just press clear and then press select to delete the programs


I've been keeping my folder pretty empty. Doesn't seem to help me.


----------



## pninen

trackie999 said:


> pninen,
> It may take up to 12 hours for preparing to connect, be patient.


Thank you. It finally finished, and my TiVo works again!

It is just astonishing how long this takes. (Computers execute BILLIONS of instructions per second!) Does this garbage collection run starved for memory?


----------



## WO312

pninen said:


> Thank you. It finally finished, and my TiVo works again!
> 
> It is just astonishing how long this takes. (Computers execute BILLIONS of instructions per second!) Does this garbage collection run starved for memory?


I am going to assume that your GC date was pretty old, and there was a lot of garbage to collect. You should monitor the GC date, and if it doesn't update regularly, do the channel fix every 3 days or so. Then the "preparing to connect" doesn't take too long.


----------



## ravingfans

Can you all confirm the current theory on S03 failure mode as follows:


 Indexing and GC take a very long time on a TiVo with Tuning Adapter, presumably because the Tuning Adapter opens up many more channels than before available, requiring more guide data and info to index and GC on.
 If the GC takes longer than 24 hours, then a chron job of some sort kills it and restarts it, therefore once the TiVo enters this loop it can never get out
 GC must complete in order for the TiVo to successfully load guide data in the last step of connecting to the TiVo's servers, and therefore the TiVo never successfully connects to the server and fails with the S03 error
 A manual restart of the TiVo either causes GC to complete or clear the GC Flag, which gets the TiVo out of the GC restart loop and the S03 error loop
 Eventually there is so much Garbage to collect that even restarting does not get the TiVo out of the S03 loop

My solution of increasing the Swap partition, which has been solid for me so far the last month or so, suggests that the TiVo is thrashing during GC and/or indexing. I think the limited memory budget is too small and the TiVo has to swap too much to process the large amount of GC and/or indexing data before the chron jobs restarts it.

Your thoughts?


----------



## WO312

ravingfans said:


> Can you all confirm the current theory on S03 failure mode as follows:
> 
> 
> Indexing and GC take a very long time on a TiVo with Tuning Adapter, presumably because the Tuning Adapter opens up many more channels than before available, requiring more guide data and info to index and GC on.
> If the GC takes longer than 24 hours, then a chron job of some sort kills it and restarts it, therefore once the TiVo enters this loop it can never get out
> GC must complete in order for the TiVo to successfully load guide data in the last step of connecting to the TiVo's servers, and therefore the TiVo never successfully connects to the server and fails with the S03 error
> A manual restart of the TiVo either causes GC to complete or clear the GC Flag, which gets the TiVo out of the GC restart loop and the S03 error loop
> Eventually there is so much Garbage to collect that even restarting does not get the TiVo out of the S03 loop
> 
> My solution of increasing the Swap partition, which has been solid for me so far the last month or so, suggests that the TiVo is thrashing during GC and/or indexing. I think the limited memory budget is too small and the TiVo has to swap too much to process the large amount of GC and/or indexing data before the chron jobs restarts it.
> 
> Your thoughts?


Thanks for the post. Any attempt to get to the bottom of the problem is refreshing, like trackie999 did earlier.

In my opinion, it sounds plausible, but I have a few questions/comments:

1. I doubt that the tuning adapter adds THAT many more channels compared to the huge list of channels that I have available. I think it's something else associated with the tuning adapter

2. If this is correct, shouldn't this be happening on every Tivo with a tuning adapter (and presumably an upgraded drive)? Why such an apparently small number of machines being affected?

3. If it IS related to a large number of channels, can I eliminate the problem by de-selecting channels from the channel list? I only use a small number of channels.

4. If swap file size matters, any way to change it? I don't recall even an option of selecting the size with the jfms method that you need for a 2 TB drive.

5. If the larger swap size is working for you, did you have the problem before on a different, upgraded drive?


----------



## MC Hammer

ravingfans said:


> Can you all confirm the current theory on S03 failure mode as follows:
> 
> 
> Indexing and GC take a very long time on a TiVo with Tuning Adapter, presumably because the Tuning Adapter opens up many more channels than before available, requiring more guide data and info to index and GC on.


The only thing the TA is sending to the Tivo are channel map updates. These are not related to the Tivo Channel List.


----------



## denispelletier

WO312 said:


> 3. If it IS related to a large number of channels, can I eliminate the problem by de-selecting channels from the channel list? I only use a small number of channels.


I also have this problem (Cary, NC with Time Warner and TivoHD with upgraded hard drive) and tried de-selecting a bunch of channels (everything below 900) and it has not made a difference so far. The GC date is not updating. It's now about one week behind, which correspond to the last time I did the channel lineup trick.


----------



## chrisdfw

I am trying the only letting TiVo connect once a week option. If more users have success with the new swap file size I will try it. I have tried 1GB and did not see a change. With JMS and 2TB drive you will need to take a back up with WinMSF and then restore it to another drive change the swap file size then use JMS to copy that drive to your old one and then back to WinMSF to supersize. I think this is all tied into the suggestion bug too. On a clean drive the suggestions stop when the GC stops updating. You can force a update but the suggestions never return. One other note&#8230;.. TivoGuy where are you&#8230;.


----------



## ravingfans

My Comments to WO312's questions below:

*Thanks for the post. Any attempt to get to the bottom of the problem is refreshing, like trackie999 did earlier.*

Trackie999 is looking at my daily logs to confirm if this is a viable path for y'all.

*In my opinion, it sounds plausible, but I have a few questions/comments:

1. I doubt that the tuning adapter adds THAT many more channels compared to the huge list of channels that I have available. I think it's something else associated with the tuning adapter
*
Probably true. Guess on my part as to the reason for the Tuning Adapter association with the problem--I'm open to other theories.

*2. If this is correct, shouldn't this be happening on every Tivo with a tuning adapter (and presumably an upgraded drive)? Why such an apparently small number of machines being affected?
*
Might be just a matter of time, but the common points appear to be Tuning Adapter, large upgraded drive. I'm wondering what the population of upgraded S3 and up TiVo's is, and how many just give up on the problem?

*3. If it IS related to a large number of channels, can I eliminate the problem by de-selecting channels from the channel list? I only use a small number of channels.
*
de-selecting channels did not work for me on either the old disks or the new disk. I also tried through guided setup to switch to a remote area of the country with limited channel selections and it had no effect.

*4. If swap file size matters, any way to change it? I don't recall even an option of selecting the size with the jfms method that you need for a 2 TB drive.*

I don't know with JMFS, since I have the original S3 TiVo, that tool is not an option for me. I used WinMFS on a new 2TB drive, and it does allow you the option to set the swap partition to an arbitrary value. I had trouble one time with 4GB of swap--I think I made some other error on that run, but I've found 2GB to be quite solid. I tried 512MB and 1TB once or twice, but they didn't change the behavior.

My thought is on an existing drive it will be quite tricky to change the swap partition without affecting other partitions. Likely you will lose recordings etc--basically anything on partitions past the swap partition which is partition 8. The next partition, 9, is /var which is no biggie to lose, just will lose any logs and also hacks you have installed in that partition, as TiVo will just rebuild it on the next restart. The problem with that though is /var is only 256MB typically, and partition 10, 11 and 12 are in the same range of size and they are the MFS application and MFS media regions. Changing the swap on an already built drive will be tricky to say the least. The path I took was to pick up a 2TB Drive which allows me to keep my shows and settings intact and migrate when I'm ready. Also gives me troubleshooting options if something doesn't go perfectly ;-)

*5. If the larger swap size is working for you, did you have the problem before on a different, upgraded drive?
*
I had the S03 problem on my original setup which was Weaknees 1TB internal + 1TB external (working for 3 years reliably). Then when I set up a new 2TB drive, the problem persisted even when restoring from the original 250GB drive that came in the S3 as well as the upgraded 1TB + 1TB configuration. This is when I started trying different swap partition sizes.


----------



## ravingfans

Of course, meant to say *2GB* _not _*2TB*



ravingfans said:


> I tried 512MB and 1TB once or twice, but they didn't change the behavior.


----------



## WO312

denispelletier said:


> I also have this problem (Cary, NC with Time Warner and TivoHD with upgraded hard drive) and tried de-selecting a bunch of channels (everything below 900) and it has not made a difference so far. The GC date is not updating. It's now about one week behind, which correspond to the last time I did the channel lineup trick.


I also have TWC. Related?? Anybody out there have this issue on a system other than TWC??


----------



## ravingfans

I'm on TWC


----------



## trackie999

I'm also on TWC with Cisco TA, here's my saga:

I had experienced no issues prior to attaching a Cisco TA to my upgraded 1TB TivoHD with MCard. Life was swell!

In ~July 2008, I got a Cisco Tuning Adapter. Very soon (I suppose ~7 days) I got my very first "Guide Data running low" message. Quickly figured out that rebooting "fixed" the issue.
Eventually, I unplugged the TA and life was back to normal. (only had limited # of SDV channels)
In early 2010, TWC moved bunch of kiddie channels to SDV, I had no choice but to hook TA back up... Hello "Guide Data Running Low"...

I read this and other forums and swapped my drive out with a new one (Identical drive that is in Tivo XL) S03 came back... (People stop telling me that my drive is faulty)

Tivo told me that this issue only affected very few customers, so I assumed this may have been a Hardware fault. Maybe a bad batch or I had an early model that had an issue since resolved in newer revisions.

... However, now I own 3 of these badboys! (one in 2010 and one in 2011, they were practically free with lifetime subs)

3 Tivo HDs manufactured years apart, all of them having this issue!


----------



## trackie999

I tried Teeps' suggestion to disable network connection (sorta)

Friday 9/30
- Ran Channel Line Up Fix to trigger GC
- Firewalled off Guide Data Server, to make my guide connections fail
- (I already had my channel list paired down to ~600 stations prior to this test)

Saturday 10/1
- I verified that my initial indexing successfully completed
- Enabled network connection and did a regular tivo connection to download guide data
- Firewalled off Guide Data Server, to make my guide connections fail

Tivo was completely left alone (I'm several states away)

Wednesday 10/5
Had wife check System Information Screen for me
- Tivo made a connection and successfully downloaded guide data today (I set up my firewall to allow tivo to connect on wednesdays)
- GC Date is still stuck on 9/30

This didn't work for me, but I also deviated from what Teeps' did.

I'll be home in a few days and will check my logs for clues...



Teeps said:


> Interestingly enough after disconnecting TiVo from the internet for 3 days, after doing the the line up fix. The GC on my S3 updated itself from Monday 26Sept to Wednesday 28Sept.
> 
> So anecdotally (for me) the disconnection from the internet appears to have a positive effect. Whether it's permanent is still the question.
> And, disconnecting from internet is even easier than doing any of the other temporary fixes.
> 
> Here's what was done:
> Do channel line up "fix." (if it's been done before use all the defaults.)
> Uncheck all unused channels in new line up.
> Force a service connection.
> After service connection is completed; disconnect TiVo from internet until the GC date changes on its own. This could take a couple of days.
> Reconnect TiVo to internet.


----------



## trackie999

... See my comments in red



ravingfans said:


> My Comments to WO312's questions below:
> 
> *Thanks for the post. Any attempt to get to the bottom of the problem is refreshing, like trackie999 did earlier.*
> 
> Trackie999 is looking at my daily logs to confirm if this is a viable path for y'all.
> 
> I saved this one for the very end
> 
> *In my opinion, it sounds plausible, but I have a few questions/comments:
> 
> 1. I doubt that the tuning adapter adds THAT many more channels compared to the huge list of channels that I have available. I think it's something else associated with the tuning adapter
> *
> Probably true. Guess on my part as to the reason for the Tuning Adapter association with the problem--I'm open to other theories.
> 
> Reducing the # of channels doesn't seem to directly effect GC. It does help speed up the "preparing to connect" phase of a connection when list of channels you receive is compiled.
> 
> 
> *2. If this is correct, shouldn't this be happening on every Tivo with a tuning adapter (and presumably an upgraded drive)? Why such an apparently small number of machines being affected?
> *
> Might be just a matter of time, but the common points appear to be Tuning Adapter, large upgraded drive. I'm wondering what the population of upgraded S3 and up TiVo's is, and how many just give up on the problem?
> 
> Exactly! Why is this only affecting few Tivos?
> Is it because we upgraded the drives to 1TB+? Then why aren't all 658 XL models having this issue?
> Is it because we used slow/cheap drives that can't keep up? No, I used the exact same drive that is in an XL!
> Is it because my drive is failing (S03)? NO!!! I swapped in too many new drives to count and happily used "S03 failed" drives in computers without issues...
> Do we have early/faulty units that were superseeded with newer revisions? No, I have 3 TivoHDs manufactured years apart all having this issue.
> 
> 
> 
> *3. If it IS related to a large number of channels, can I eliminate the problem by de-selecting channels from the channel list? I only use a small number of channels.
> *
> de-selecting channels did not work for me on either the old disks or the new disk. I also tried through guided setup to switch to a remote area of the country with limited channel selections and it had no effect.
> 
> As I pointed out earlier, it has very little effect.
> 
> *4. If swap file size matters, any way to change it? I don't recall even an option of selecting the size with the jfms method that you need for a 2 TB drive.*
> 
> I don't know with JMFS, since I have the original S3 TiVo, that tool is not an option for me. I used WinMFS on a new 2TB drive, and it does allow you the option to set the swap partition to an arbitrary value. I had trouble one time with 4GB of swap--I think I made some other error on that run, but I've found 2GB to be quite solid. I tried 512MB and 1TB once or twice, but they didn't change the behavior.
> 
> My thought is on an existing drive it will be quite tricky to change the swap partition without affecting other partitions. Likely you will lose recordings etc--basically anything on partitions past the swap partition which is partition 8. The next partition, 9, is /var which is no biggie to lose, just will lose any logs and also hacks you have installed in that partition, as TiVo will just rebuild it on the next restart. The problem with that though is /var is only 256MB typically, and partition 10, 11 and 12 are in the same range of size and they are the MFS application and MFS media regions. Changing the swap on an already built drive will be tricky to say the least. The path I took was to pick up a 2TB Drive which allows me to keep my shows and settings intact and migrate when I'm ready. Also gives me troubleshooting options if something doesn't go perfectly ;-)
> 
> If you have free space at the end of your drive, you can create a new swap partition and you can designate it as partition 8 (partitions do not have to be in logical order) Resizing mfs partitions with recordings on it is complicated on a good day, however is possible.
> 
> *5. If the larger swap size is working for you, did you have the problem before on a different, upgraded drive?
> *
> I had the S03 problem on my original setup which was Weaknees 1TB internal + 1TB external (working for 3 years reliably). Then when I set up a new 2TB drive, the problem persisted even when restoring from the original 250GB drive that came in the S3 as well as the upgraded 1TB + 1TB configuration. This is when I started trying different swap partition sizes.


Ravingfans has been kind enough to share his logs with me. I can confirm that 3 out of 5 garbage collect + full indexing runs completed successfully for him. (1 attempt appears to failed due to a "forced" daily call, the 2nd attempt has failed due to the mysterious exit code eMfsTooFast).

As he pointed out, this is happening on a 2TB drive that is 97% full. I cannot produce a single successful gc + index on 3 TivoHDs and he had 3 successful runs in one week.

To be honest, I can't come up with a reason why creating a 2GB swap fixes this issue or even makes *ANY* difference.

According to Ravingfans' testing,
1GB swap = no joy
2GB swap = joy

Default swap is 128Mbytes and this appears to be working for majority of tivo owners. I would expect us "minority" users to be barely over this limit and increasing swap just by a few Mbytes would resolve this problem. 2GB is 16x the default swap...

If swap space was an issue, I would expect to see tivo's ram to be full and swap being near full. Instead, I find that RAM has 3-4Mbytes of free space with a bunch of leftover stuff being cached. (linux doesn't like free ram, instead it will cache stuff for future use if there is unused RAM). The swap file sometimes has 1-2 Mbyte stored in it but the remaining 126 MBytes are reported as Free.

If Tivo would ever fill up RAM + swap, I should see kernel panics + reboots happening.

The only situation where a large swap file would make a difference is when you want to allocate a large *contiguous* memory range. Since default RAM + swap is 256Mbytes, why would Tivo ever want to allocate 1GB+. Besides all this data is stored in a database where you can individually manipulate data elements minimizing any resource requirements.

So, instead of trying to rationalize why this works for him, I will check my bottom drawer for an extra drive and try it myself...


----------



## ravingfans

_(1 attempt appears to failed due to a "forced" daily call, the 2nd attempt has failed due to the mysterious exit code eMfsTooFast)._

The forced daily call (10-1-2011) and mfstoofast were right after I successfully divorced the external drive during a separate experiment _(trying to go from 2TB to 2.25TB)_. Since then I've been testing continuously with no forced connect attempts.

BTW, very good points on memory and swap, perhaps it is an internal structure or pointer related to TWC TA's out of control that consumes gobs of space, but cleans up nicely? When you look at memory is it during steady state or after a GC/Indexing run?


----------



## MC Hammer

Is there anybody experiencing this issue with a Motorola TA? I browsed through from the beginning and only saw Cisco TAs being mentioned.


----------



## chrisdfw

I am TWC with a Moto TA


----------



## ravingfans

mine is Moto TA in DFW with TWC


----------



## trackie999

Memory-
I checked memory usage a few dozen times while dbgc was and was not running. Memory always appeared to be healthy and I never considered it to be an issue.

CPU-
I messed around with scheduling priorities for garbage collection to see if it was CPU starved but the CPU is usually not that busy. (Tivo's design is ingenious and most I/O operations bypass the mips cpu core, leaving it underwhelmed with tasks. (Search on line for the broadcom chip used in series 3 to read about the architecture.)

HD-
I probably tried 6-7 different Hard drives from Hitachi, Seagate and WD. They were all 7,200 RPM drives with 8, 16 or 32MB cache with 1TB - 1.5TB capacity. (I would only partition up to WinMFS' limit and leave ~0.15TB free on a 1.5TB drive) 
None of these drives seemed to eliminate this issue, but I do think that different drives take longer than others to end up with S03 error.

I think my Tivo #1 with Hard drive identical to the XL model's drive tends to go 6-9 months before I would get an S03 error. (I put that Tivo on a timer to reboot daily to keep the guide to date moving and it is almost bearable to clear & delete guide data/reenter season passes once a year)

My 2 newer TivoHDs only last a couple months (maybe 3) before getting S03 errors. (#2 has Seagate 1.5TB 7,200 RPM Drive, #3 has 1TB 7,200RPM WD drive) #3 went S03 in less than a month after I got it!

Ravingfan, would you share HD drive model you are using, RPM and cache size? My hunch is you're using the drive from a 2TB WD Elements external drive 



ravingfans said:


> _(1 attempt appears to failed due to a "forced" daily call, the 2nd attempt has failed due to the mysterious exit code eMfsTooFast)._
> 
> The forced daily call (10-1-2011) and mfstoofast were right after I successfully divorced the external drive during a separate experiment _(trying to go from 2TB to 2.25TB)_. Since then I've been testing continuously with no forced connect attempts.
> 
> BTW, very good points on memory and swap, perhaps it is an internal structure or pointer related to TWC TA's out of control that consumes gobs of space, but cleans up nicely? When you look at memory is it during steady state or after a GC/Indexing run?


----------



## WO312

MC Hammer said:


> Is there anybody experiencing this issue with a Motorola TA? I browsed through from the beginning and only saw Cisco TAs being mentioned.


So it appears any tuning adapter is an issue. I still haven't seen anybody from a non-TWC system say they have the problem.

Come on, I know you're out there.


----------



## MC Hammer

WO312 said:


> So it appears any tuning adapter is an issue. I still haven't seen anybody from a non-TWC system say they have the problem.
> 
> Come on, I know you're out there.


The only theory I can come up with is that channel map updates from the TA adversely affect the box's ability to run GC. However, not knowing where on the hard drive the map updates are stored, I can't offer any quantifiable information that would support this theory.

Can someone experiencing this issue with a Cisco TA post your Serial Link Anomalies diagnostic screen?


----------



## ravingfans

_*Ravingfan, would you share HD drive model you are using, RPM and cache size? My hunch is you're using the drive from a 2TB WD Elements external drive 
*_

I have a WD Caviar Green 2TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive WD20EARS - OEM, 5400 RPM. I've actually had very good results with all WD HDD's as long as the idle timeout was cleared with the WDIDLE3 utility. Tried a Seagate drive ($20 cheaper) but could never get the idle timeout cleared, so went back to WD. In one of my other TiVo's I have a Hitachi, and it works fine, but it is louder.

My personal opinion is drive type doesn't matter except for with head parking/idle timeout issues, but those issues result in lockup/freeze issues long before the S03 error would ever hit.

Also, one more data point: In my case, the S03 error occurred on basically the second or third TiVo Service connection after restoring from either the original 250GB (never had a TA installed on it) or the WK upgraded 1TB + 1TB pair images using WinMFS when I had swap partition set to less than 2GB. It did not take the months and months you described. I haven't seen S03 with the 2GB swap partition.

It had not occurred to me that the "program info running out" message/reboot every two weeks process was associated with the TA's until reading this thread, although now that I think about it, my problems started pretty soon after installing the TA.


----------



## Teeps

ravingfans said:


> It had not occurred to me that the "program info running out" message/reboot every two weeks process was associated with the TA's until reading this thread, although now that I think about it, my problems started pretty soon after installing the TA.


Thank you. As did my problem with guide data running out.
TiVo support denies that the T/A has any influence on this problem. 
They insist it's a HDD problem. 
TiVo support says hdd either faulty or corrupt...


----------



## WO312

Teeps said:


> Thank you. As did my problem with guide data running out.
> TiVo support denies that the T/A has any influence on this problem.
> They insist it's a HDD problem.
> TiVo support says hdd either faulty or corrupt...


Total BS. I have proven that my system runs great with the tuning adapter disconnected.


----------



## ravingfans

WO312 said:


> Total BS. I have proven that my system runs great with the tuning adapter disconnected.


Interesting point, I missed that in this thread. So that means I should be able to go back to my original WK 1TB + 1TB configuration with the S03 error, unplug the TA and it should complete the Guided Setup? I'll try that in a bit...


----------



## MC Hammer

Bump for someone's Serial Link Anomalies screen.


----------



## trackie999

Not sure, I haven't seen anything posted about being able to break out of S03 guided set up loop by disconnecting TA. Please try and let us know.

If it doesn't work, you do have a couple other options to try:
- option 1: update state/phoneconfig to show that you completed guided set up. reboot and do a clear and delete program info (you could use fakecall)
- option 2: Kill off UI and run mfscheck. guided set up should be able to complete.



ravingfans said:


> Interesting point, I missed that in this thread. So that means I should be able to go back to my original WK 1TB + 1TB configuration with the S03 error, unplug the TA and it should complete the Guided Setup? I'll try that in a bit...


----------



## trackie999

Tell them that your Tivo is experiencing issues caused by Tivo bug #86335.



Teeps said:


> Thank you. As did my problem with guide data running out.
> TiVo support denies that the T/A has any influence on this problem.
> They insist it's a HDD problem.
> TiVo support says hdd either faulty or corrupt...


----------



## trackie999

Ravingfans continues to have his dbgc runs complete without issues, here's his log history for reference. Let's assume this is how a healthy tivo indexes and garbage collects:

10/1 [01491] - 09.87 hrs - *FAILED* (eFsDibsSaidStop caused by forced call in) - GC + Full Index
10/1 [02157] - 01.97 hrs - *FAILED* (eMfsTooFast) - GC + Full Index
10/1 [04093] - 13.51 hrs - GC + Full Index
10/2 [07856] - 07.93 hrs - Index Only
10/3 [14918] - 29.73 hrs - GC + Full Index
10/4 [15673] - 06.22 hrs - Index Only
10/5 [22542] - 18.35 hrs - GC + Full Index
10/7 [30458] - 24.23 hrs - GC + Full Index

Ravingfans' Tivo is in a steady state (no reboots & no forced call ins), time required to complete full index with GC is fluctuating with an *upward* trend...

Let's compare this to my results from this week's experiment with not letting Tivo contact guide server to download new data. (Refer to post #125 in this thread.)

System Info:
Today's Date Oct 8
Program Information to Oct 14 (got the warning of program info running low)
Last successful: Oct 5 17:07 (converted to UTC).
GC September 30
Indexing October 6 4:49 (UTC)
Guide View Cache October 15 (Tivo, please explain how I have my guide data cached to Oct 15 if I only have data until the 14th?)

from my logs:
9/30 [17088] - 00.51 hrs - channel fix preparing to connect garbage collection
9/30 [17176] - 00.33 hrs - channel fix organizing (quicky index)
10/1 [20192] - 05.87 hrs - Index Only (post channel fix complete indexing downloaded data)
10/2 [09549] - 77.89hrs - GC + Full Index *FAILED* (eFsDibsSaidStop caused by daily call) time stamp 17:16 (UTC)
10/5 [09733] - 00.27 hrs *FAILED* (eMfsTooFast) - GC + Full Index
10/6 [11842] - 00.27 hrs *FAILED* (eMfsTooFast) - GC + Full Index
10/6 [12083] - in progress, next GC + Full Index

Apparently 3 days 5 hours is not enough for my Tivo to complete 1 run, no wonder it never completes when the daily call kills it off every ~24 hours.

During the 77 hour and current dbgc run going since 10/6 I am seeing a lot of rubbish collection taking place. During previous runs I would see may be 2-3 mfs objects getting rubbished. In these 2 runs I am seeing hundreds if not thousands of objects being rubbished. *This is consistent with what I see in Ravingfans logs, so I am going to let current dbgc run going (currently at 61 hrs).*

I am very hopeful for this method to work, I can 100% automate it with my router without effecting any other network functionality (netflix, youtube, transfers, etc) and this method also doesn't stop me from watching/recording shows like channel line up fix does 

Update: Here's the memory utilization info ~63 hrs into dbgc:

Memory Statistics:
total: used: free: shared: buffers: cached:
Mem: 130539520 117657600 12881920 0 10391552 75108352
Swap: 133881856 11374592 122507264
MemTotal: 127480 kB
MemFree: 12580 kB
MemShared: 0 kB
Buffers: 10148 kB
Cached: 70216 kB
SwapCached: 3132 kB
PriActive 0 kB
Active: 71692 kB
Inactive: 19796 kB
HighTotal: 0 kB
HighFree: 0 kB
LowTotal: 127480 kB
LowFree: 12580 kB
SwapTotal: 130744 kB
SwapFree: 119636 kB


----------



## trackie999

I had to remove glare and quality is pretty crappy...



MC Hammer said:


> Bump for someone's Serial Link Anomalies screen.


----------



## WO312

ravingfans said:


> Interesting point, I missed that in this thread. So that means I should be able to go back to my original WK 1TB + 1TB configuration with the S03 error, unplug the TA and it should complete the Guided Setup? I'll try that in a bit...


As trackie says, not sure that is confirmed.

What WOULD be interesting is to have an S03 error and see if the channel fix will remove it. That would be great to not have to do a clear and delete almost everything.


----------



## ravingfans

trackie999 said:


> Not sure, I haven't seen anything posted about being able to break out of S03 guided set up loop by disconnecting TA. Please try and let us know.
> 
> If it doesn't work, you do have a couple other options to try:
> - option 1: update state/phoneconfig to show that you completed guided set up. reboot and do a clear and delete program info (you could use fakecall)
> - option 2: Kill off UI and run mfscheck. guided set up should be able to complete.


Tried to break out of guided setup by removing the TA in one attempt, and the TA and Cable Cards in the next attempt, but the TiVo remains convinced it is hooked up to a TA, despite my physical observation! Tried shouting at it, but alas it is deaf.

trackie, could you elaborate on how to update the state/phoneconfig? Also which process kills off the UI? I see 10 instances of podapp, 8 instances of TvLauncher...


----------



## MC Hammer

trackie999 said:


> I had to remove glare and quality is pretty crappy...


Thanks, trackie. The problem has to do with the channel map updates the TA provides to the Tivo (obviously, as this is the sole purpose of the TA).

When the TA is connected, the Tivo uses the channel map provided to it by the TA. When its not, it defaults to the map provided to it by the CC. Why this would make any difference on GC completing successfully, I have no idea. Trackie, anything in your research that would answer that question?


----------



## trackie999

WO312,

*
DO NOT RUN CHANNEL LINE UP FIX IF YOU RECEIVED S03 ERROR!
YOU WILL GET STUCK IN A NEVER ENDING GUIDED SETUP -> S03 -> REBOOT LOOP!*

If you have S03 Error, you can fix it by running "Clear program information & To Do List"



WO312 said:


> What WOULD be interesting is to have an S03 error and see if the channel fix will remove it. That would be great to not have to do a clear and delete almost everything.


----------



## WO312

trackie999 said:


> WO312,
> 
> *
> DO NOT RUN CHANNEL LINE UP FIX IF YOU RECEIVED S03 ERROR!
> YOU WILL GET STUCK IN A NEVER ENDING GUIDED SETUP -> S03 -> REBOOT LOOP!*
> 
> If you have S03 Error, you can fix it by running "Clear program information & To Do List"


O.K., thanks. I do not have an S03 error now - when I did I cleared it as you said.


----------



## alyssa

a year plus ago i started having this problem. I called cs & was told it was an ungraded hdd problem--but the guy also said to try clearing all thumbs & soft restart. 
it's not logical but it keeps the nag at bay for a week or two.
I have a S3 with a scientific atlanta adapter.


----------



## trackie999

My first attempt would be to update MFS objects to pretend guided set up is complete and last call succeeded.

You need to modify fakecall.tcl to accomplish this (Need to modify it to update /State/GeneralConfig/Configured to 1 257 513)

Once that's done, reboot tivo and cross your fingers 

Here is the info for what to change in fakecall.tcl



ravingfans said:


> Tried to break out of guided setup by removing the TA in one attempt, and the TA and Cable Cards in the next attempt, but the TiVo remains convinced it is hooked up to a TA, despite my physical observation! Tried shouting at it, but alas it is deaf.
> 
> trackie, could you elaborate on how to update the state/phoneconfig? Also which process kills off the UI? I see 10 instances of podapp, 8 instances of TvLauncher...


----------



## ravingfans

thanks Trackie, The hyperlink you inserted has a lot of clutter and doesn't load. Could you type the link out?


----------



## WO312

ravingfans said:


> thanks Trackie, The hyperlink you inserted has a lot of clutter and doesn't load. Could you type the link out?


You have to delete the "(remove this)" from the link and it will load.


----------



## Teeps

WO312 said:


> Total BS. I have proven that my system runs great with the tuning adapter disconnected.


Which is the point, as I pointed "them" to this thread as proof.

Since I last did the channel fix and disconnect from the internet. The GC updated after about 3 days. Then hung on that date. I gave it 3 days, disconnected the internet. On the third day GC updated. The last GC update (result from internet disconnect) last Wed appeared stuck, but yesterday evening I noticed that GC HAD updated on its own!!!!

So the GC clock is ticking again 8Oct2011.


----------



## lrhorer

MC Hammer said:


> The only theory I can come up with is that channel map updates from the TA adversely affect the box's ability to run GC. However, not knowing where on the hard drive the map updates are stored, I can't offer any quantifiable information that would support this theory.


They aren't. The Channel Map is stored within the CableCards. The TA overwrites this (I'm not certain if it is overwritten in memory or on the CableCards) dynamically.


----------



## lrhorer

WO312 said:


> Total BS. I have proven that my system runs great with the tuning adapter disconnected.


Agreed. TA issues aside, any DB corruption of the schedule data should be over-written with the next phone home. I find it unlikely any persistent issues would be related to a hard drive problem, unless accompanied by very significant other issues. The guide data and the setup data are all kept in the MFS areas.


----------



## lrhorer

WO312 said:


> So it appears any tuning adapter is an issue. I still haven't seen anybody from a non-TWC system say they have the problem.


OTOH, I know for a fact most people on TWC systems are not having the issue. Certainly I am not, and I have 3 TWC TAs.


----------



## MC Hammer

lrhorer said:


> They aren't. The Channel Map is stored within the CableCards. The TA overwrites this (I'm not certain if it is overwritten in memory or on the CableCards) dynamically.


Incorrect. The map is provided real-time by the card but a copy of the most recent version is stored on the hard drive.


----------



## lrhorer

MC Hammer said:


> Incorrect. The map is provided real-time by the card but a copy of the most recent version is stored on the hard drive.


I don't see where:



Code:


Directory listing of /
Name					Type	Id	Date	 	Time	Size
AdContent				tyDir	49569	10/03/11	22:17	4
Anchor					tyDir	314739	10/07/11	02:59	2712
AreaCode				tyDir	7499	06/14/07	17:08	16
AuxInfo					tyDir	54110	02/09/07	16:38	68
CaptureRequest				tyDir	9679	10/20/06	08:44	92
Clips					tyDir	7286	06/20/07	05:00	64
Component				tyDir	4912	07/27/06	19:07	40
Config					tyDir	7372	07/27/06	19:42	56
CorrelationIndexPart			tyDir	15994	10/04/07	08:22	20
DataSet					tyDir	4690	10/09/11	08:09	1408
DataSetVersion				tyDir	4691	10/09/11	08:09	1500
Database				tyDir	4683	10/09/11	15:39	4144
DiskUsed				tyDir	15	09/12/11	22:57	44
Drm					tyDir	1833514	12/05/08 	02:21	16
Genre					tyDir	4693	06/20/08 	03:12	2440
GuideIndexV3				tyDir	264421	10/09/11	14:06	376
GuideIndexV3.temp			tyDir	264288	10/09/11 	14:06	4
Headend					tyDir	7882	01/17/09 	06:10	68
HeadendPostalCode			tyDir	7883	01/17/09 	06:10	84
HeadendTms				tyDir	7884	01/17/09 	06:10	68
LeadGeneration				tyDir	16947	10/08/11	15:23	664
LinkTag					tyDir	85112	03/02/07 	04:22	4
Log					tyDir	489050	08/19/07 	20:31	20
LogoGroup				tyDir	7237	06/14/07 	18:30	52
MenuItem				tyDir	16934	03/30/11	18:48	176
MessageItem				tyDir	19554	01/13/07	18:32	48
Package					tyDir	49688	09/06/11 	05:43	4
ParentalControls			tyDir	104866	06/11/07 	17:12	32
Person					tyDir	17006	02/28/07 	02:22	4
PostalCode				tyDir	7891	06/14/07 	17:09	16
Preference				tyDir	16113	10/18/06 	20:29	12
Psip					tyDir	104878	08/19/11 	18:42	1436
RRT					tyDir	9702	06/14/07 	17:19	20
Recording				tyDir	7253	10/03/11 	09:47	316
Resource				tyDir	16	07/27/06 	19:08	68
Rubbish					tyDir	7370	10/09/11 	05:56	1044
Schedule				tyDir	2	09/09/11 	17:55	2872
SeasonPass				tyDir	7368	10/18/06 	20:29	96
Server					tyDir	7	10/09/11 	07:35	3904
Setup					tyDb	253315	10/09/11 	19:01	80284
Showcase				tyDir	16949	10/18/06 	20:32	12
ShowcaseIndex				tyDir	7296	10/09/11 	08:14	376
ShowcaseIndex.temp			tyDir	9705	10/09/11 	08:14	4
SpigotMap				tyDir	4670	07/27/06	19:02	48
State					tyDir	4	08/22/09	22:44	548
StationTms				tyDir	7514	01/22/09 	16:59	52
SwModule				tyDir	8	03/13/11 	19:14	100
SwSystem				tyDir	4685	03/11/11 	11:12	44
Table					tyDir	4687	10/05/11 	19:39	140
Theme					tyDir	340328	09/06/11	07:35	688
Tivo_Retail_HD_ColorCorrected.ts	tyStream7280	07/27/06 	19:26	131072 x 3328(3263)
Trio					tyDir	104849	12/05/08 	02:17	216
TuikRes					tyDir	70	07/27/06 	19:01	44
Welcome_Eiger_1_HD.ts			tyStream7248	09/14/06 	15:21	131072 x 1440(1361)
Welcome_Eiger_2_HD.ts			tyStream7260	09/14/06 	15:21	131072 x 1352(1347)
Welcome_Eiger_3_HD.ts			tyStream7264	09/14/06 	15:21	131072 x 1680(1632)
Welcome_Eiger_4_HD.ts			tyStream7268	09/14/06 	15:21	131072 x 1632(1601)
Welcome_Eiger_5_HD.ts			tyStream7272	09/14/06 	15:21	131072 x 2224(2219)
Welcome_Eiger_6_HD.ts			tyStream7276	09/14/06 	15:21	131072 x 1760(1729)


----------



## WO312

Teeps said:


> Which is the point, as I pointed "them" to this thread as proof.
> 
> Since I last did the channel fix and disconnect from the internet. The GC updated after about 3 days. Then hung on that date. I gave it 3 days, disconnected the internet. On the third day GC updated. The last GC update (result from internet disconnect) last Wed appeared stuck, but yesterday evening I noticed that GC HAD updated on its own!!!!
> 
> So the GC clock is ticking again 8Oct2011.


I'm going to experiment with my system. This is what I will do:

1. I just disconnected the internet and I will leave it off until the GC updates by itself.

2. I will reconnect, let the new data download automatically, and wait for the GC to not update for 3 days.

3. Repeat steps 1 and 2 until I can get a natural GC change with the internet connected.

We will see. Teeps, let us know if your system continues to function properly. You should know in the next day or so.


----------



## trackie999

My dbgc is still running after 101 hours, it is still spitting out rubbish info once in a while...

This test confirms my theory that the daily call is what kills of dbgc after ~24 hours. No wonder dbgc never completed before if it needs 4+ days.

I am going to let it run for a couple more days, chances are it will finish.



WO312 said:


> I'm going to experiment with my system. This is what I will do:
> 
> 1. I just disconnected the internet and I will leave it off until the GC updates by itself.
> 
> 2. I will reconnect, let the new data download automatically, and wait for the GC to not update for 3 days.
> 
> 3. Repeat steps 1 and 2 until I can get a natural GC change with the internet connected.
> 
> We will see. Teeps, let us know if your system continues to function properly. You should know in the next day or so.


----------



## WO312

WO312 said:


> I'm going to experiment with my system. This is what I will do:
> 
> 1. I just disconnected the internet and I will leave it off until the GC updates by itself.
> 
> 2. I will reconnect, let the new data download automatically, and wait for the GC to not update for 3 days.
> 
> 3. Repeat steps 1 and 2 until I can get a natural GC change with the internet connected.
> 
> We will see. Teeps, let us know if your system continues to function properly. You should know in the next day or so.


This morning I checked the Tivo and I had the disconnected tuning adapter message. Seems that while I was fumbling around with the internet disconnect I separated the tuning adapter brick from its power cord. I have very tight quarters back there.

At any rate, there was a failed call but also a GC update. Not sure why the GC updated - was it because the tuning adapter was disconnected or because there was a failed call?

I now have the tuning adapter connected, I forced a call, and I will leave it alone for a few days until the GC doesn't update. Then I will disconnect the internet again.


----------



## WO312

trackie999 said:


> My dbgc is still running after 101 hours, it is still spitting out rubbish info once in a while...
> 
> This test confirms my theory that the daily call is what kills of dbgc after ~24 hours. No wonder dbgc never completed before if it needs 4+ days.
> 
> I am going to let it run for a couple more days, chances are it will finish.


You are well beyond my technical capability. If your theory proves out, can we use this to do something to help our situation?? Or is this something Tivo could use to fix the situation. Not that they would. All new efforts seem to be focused on Premier only.


----------



## chrisdfw

Just to add some data points. This is happening for users with TWC, upgraded drives and tuning adaptors. I was able to get GC to update with only allowing the TiVo to talk on Wednesdays. I have now rebuilt the TiVo with a 2GB swap file to test. I am Dallas with TWC, with a moto TA and a TiVo HD with a 2TB drives


----------



## Teeps

chrisdfw said:


> Just to add some data points. This is happening for users with TWC, upgraded drives and tuning adaptors.


Not entirely true, as my S3 had the problem with standard HDD, before installing a DVR_Dude 2tb drive.

My S3 developed this problem, with standard HDD, about 1 month after the Cisco Tuning Adapter (Time Warner) was put online here in Torrance,CA. 
First sign of problem was the "running out of guide data" message.
Then after several forced connections S03 error occurs.


----------



## trackie999

Long rant/answer:


Spoiler



I am getting tired of baby sitting my Tivos just so they can do their most basic function: *Record a TV show*.

How would you feel if you got a news paper subscription and the paperboy wouldn't drop your paper off unless you're waiting at the end of your driveway at 5 o'clock in the morning?

I don't know how many times I pulled up a show on Now Playing List and it was another show. Tivo thought it was the right show because it never loaded updated guide data.

How do you feel when Tivo refuses to record anything because it has run out of guide data, yet when I pull up the guide I have days of guide data.

I am just dumbstruck when I go into the To Do List and it shows that it is currently recording TV Show A. When I go to Live TV the Guide Info is for TV Show B. My Tivo either has a split personality or faulty software!

This is a serious flaw that is not being acknowledged by Tivo. I have very little faith that they will attempt to resolve as all support is funneled into fixing their half baked premiere products.

So, my options are: 
1) Get my cable company's DVR
2) Build a MythTV Box 
3) Class action suit anyone?
4) Figure it out myself

TWC's DVRs came a long way. They are on par with Tivos on speed, but the UI is just puke.
MythTV is looking better every year, it's now a viable solution with cable card & TA support. It's a lot of money to replicate what my Tivo should be doing.
We could go to court, but even if we win (in 2-5 years) Tivo would probably just go bankrupt. (And my Tivo would still not work)

I am going with Option #4.


My primary goal is to come up with a workaround that is fully automated.
We may or may not be able to identify the root cause of the issue, but we will be able to eliminate a bunch of potential causes and this can help Tivo with providing a permanent fix.



WO312 said:


> You are well beyond my technical capability. If your theory proves out, can we use this to do something to help our situation?? Or is this something Tivo could use to fix the situation. Not that they would. All new efforts seem to be focused on Premier only.


----------



## trackie999

lrhorer: Please tell me you're having the same issue!
Your insights would be greatly appreciated in resolving this matter!



lrhorer said:


> I don't see where:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Directory listing of /
> Name					Type	Id	Date	 	Time	Size
> AdContent				tyDir	49569	10/03/11	22:17	4
> Anchor					tyDir	314739	10/07/11	02:59	2712
> 15:21	131072 x 1760(1729)


----------



## chrisdfw

Teeps said:


> Not entirely true, as my S3 had the problem with standard HDD, before installing a DVR_Dude 2tb drive.
> 
> My S3 developed this problem, with standard HDD, about 1 month after the Cisco Tuning Adapter (Time Warner) was put online here in Torrance,CA.
> First sign of problem was the "running out of guide data" message.
> Then after several forced connections S03 error occurs.


If its happening on a stock drive,Please keep after tivo support. Those of us with upgraded drives have no hope of getting them to fix it.


----------



## WO312

If it is true that it only affects TWC, how could that be? What could be different in the TWC implementation of SDV compared to everybody else??

And I'll never understand why this only affects what must be a relatively small number of people, or there would be an uproar.

And why my 1 TB upgrade worked great, and the problem only started with the 2 TB upgrade.

And why the sun rises in the east. (O.K. , I know that one. That's the way the sun circles the earth.)


----------



## wtherrell

WO312 said:


> If it is true that it only affects TWC, how could that be? What could be different in the TWC implementation of SDV compared to everybody else??
> 
> And I'll never understand why this only affects what must be a relatively small number of people, or there would be an uproar.
> 
> And why my 1 TB upgrade worked great, and the problem only started with the 2 TB upgrade.
> 
> And why the sun rises in the east. (O.K. , I know that one. That's the way the sun circles the earth.)


Sun circles the earth?? From what century have you time-traveled here ??

It is now October 10. My system shows last GC was August 10. 2 months-wow. I unplugged internet connection on Oct. 8 but no GC update yet.


----------



## lrhorer

trackie999 said:


> lrhorer: Please tell me you're having the same issue!


I'm afraid not. I'm on TWC San Antonio with 3 Cisco TAs. Two S3 TiVos and one THD. All three have upgraded drives. (All three are also hacked.)

Is there anyone out there with 2 or more TAs that is either suffering the problem on both / all or on only one?

Edit: Ah, I see Trackie999 has the issue on three different TiVos. That would seem to rule out a hardware failure.


----------



## lrhorer

trackie999 said:


> My primary goal is to come up with a workaround that is fully automated. We may or may not be able to identify the root cause of the issue, but we will be able to eliminate a bunch of potential causes and this can help Tivo with providing a permanent fix.


Well, as I understand it, the issue can be temporarily abated by taking down the internet connection to the Tivo for 3 or 4 days, right? One possibility would be to set up a proxy server for the TiVo's internet connections. The proxy can be set to automatically disable itself for 3 or 4 days at a time and then come back online for 5 or 6 days.


----------



## lrhorer

WO312 said:


> If it is true that it only affects TWC, how could that be? What could be different in the TWC implementation of SDV compared to everybody else??


Oh, I can think of a number of different possibilities. One that jumps to mind is the number of SDV channels may be huge, especially when one considers duplicates. Perhaps some buffer somewhere is overflowing when the number of channels reported by the TA exceeds some magic number (2047, maybe?). This buffer overflow could then be corrupting the GC process in some very specific way.

I'm not saying this is the case, it's just one possible scenario.



WO312 said:


> And I'll never understand why this only affects what must be a relatively small number of people, or there would be an uproar.


Again, there are lots of possibilities. The specific lineup may have something to do with it, or a firmware rev. With that in mind, are any of you running the same version I am:












WO312 said:


> And why my 1 TB upgrade worked great, and the problem only started with the 2 TB upgrade.


I would tend to suspect coincidence on that venue. Any chance you still have your 1T laying around for testing purposes?


----------



## trackie999

I am trying the firewalled Tivo approach. My first attempt failed when my router allowed Tivo to connect after 77 hours. (I was out of town and assumed it would be done by then)

My current attempt has been going for almost 5 days now...

Take a look at the info from my current run:


Code:


Oct  6 05:06:48 (none) DbGc[12083]: fEnableIndexingM=1 fEnableGcM=1
Oct  6 05:10:19 (none) dbcache[12083]: Creating dbcache in program dbgc-mcp, size = 10
Oct  6 05:10:20 (none) DbGc[12083]: SetState(): eVirgin --> eBefored
Oct  6 05:10:20 (none) DbGc[12083]: SetState(): eBefored --> eMarkingActive
Oct  6 07:30:31 (none) DbGc[12083]: SetState(): eMarkingActive --> eMarkingReactive
Oct  6 07:30:40 (none) DbGc[12083]: SetState(): eMarkingReactive --> eTryingToInstallGcMask
Oct  6 07:30:40 (none) DbGc[12083]: SetState(): eTryingToInstallGcMask --> eInstallingGcMask
Oct  6 07:30:43 (none) DbGc[12083]: SetState(): eInstallingGcMask --> eSweeping
Oct  6 12:48:51 (none) DbGc::LogMemoryUsage[12083]: LogMemoryUsage( After DbShowingIndexer::VisitAllStationDays )
Oct  6 12:48:51 (none) TmkMempool[12083]: STAT dbgc-mcp: blocks=3648 bytes=1069912 bytesMax=1563840 unusedBytes=3093328 chunks=31 chunkBytes=974336 freeChunks=2 freeChunkBytes=1536 maxFreeChunk=2955848
Oct  6 12:49:00 (none) DbGc::LogMemoryUsage[12083]: LogMemoryUsage( pShowingWriterM )
Oct  6 12:49:00 (none) TmkMempool[12083]: STAT dbgc-mcp: blocks=3648 bytes=1069912 bytesMax=1563840 unusedBytes=3093328 chunks=31 chunkBytes=974336 freeChunks=2 freeChunkBytes=1536 maxFreeChunk=2955848
Oct  6 12:49:18 (none) DbGc::LogMemoryUsage[12083]: LogMemoryUsage( pProgramWriterM )
Oct  6 12:49:18 (none) TmkMempool[12083]: STAT dbgc-mcp: blocks=3648 bytes=1069912 bytesMax=1563840 unusedBytes=3093328 chunks=31 chunkBytes=974336 freeChunks=2 freeChunkBytes=1536 maxFreeChunk=2955848
Oct  6 12:49:18 (none) DbGc::LogMemoryUsage[12083]: LogMemoryUsage( pGenreWriterM )
Oct  6 12:49:18 (none) TmkMempool[12083]: STAT dbgc-mcp: blocks=3648 bytes=1069912 bytesMax=1563840 unusedBytes=3093328 chunks=31 chunkBytes=974336 freeChunks=2 freeChunkBytes=1536 maxFreeChunk=2955848
Oct  6 12:49:25 (none) DbGc::LogMemoryUsage[12083]: LogMemoryUsage( pSeriesIndexerM )
Oct  6 12:49:25 (none) TmkMempool[12083]: STAT dbgc-mcp: blocks=3648 bytes=1069912 bytesMax=1563840 unusedBytes=3093328 chunks=31 chunkBytes=974336 freeChunks=2 freeChunkBytes=1536 maxFreeChunk=2955848
Oct  6 12:49:25 (none) DbGc::LogMemoryUsage[12083]: LogMemoryUsage( After running pShowingIndexer )
Oct  6 12:49:25 (none) TmkMempool[12083]: STAT dbgc-mcp: blocks=3648 bytes=1069912 bytesMax=1563840 unusedBytes=3093328 chunks=31 chunkBytes=974336 freeChunks=2 freeChunkBytes=1536 maxFreeChunk=2955848
Oct  6 12:49:30 (none) DbGc[12083]: DbGc::AfterIndexersFSuccessful = 1
Oct  6 12:49:30 (none) DbGc[12083]: DbGc::StoreCompletionInDb: 15253/46170 (0x0)
Oct  6 12:49:30 (none) DbGc[12083]: DbGc::Mark succeeded, sweep soon
Oct  6 12:49:30 (none) TmkActivityStats[12083]: DbGcBackgroundAction-->(Pri:0 Time Sample: 7 h 42 min)
Oct  6 12:49:30 (none) TmkActivityStats[12113]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample: 9 h 12 min)
Oct  6 18:49:58 (none) TmkActivityStats[14904]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct  7 00:50:27 (none) TmkActivityStats[16192]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct  7 06:50:55 (none) TmkActivityStats[17658]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct  7 12:51:24 (none) TmkActivityStats[19019]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct  8 00:52:20 (none) TmkActivityStats[21601]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct  8 02:44:28 (none) DbGc[22006]: TrioRubbished id:1609861 s:2
Oct  8 02:44:29 (none) DbGc[22006]: TrioRubbished id:1609862 s:2
Oct  8 02:44:30 (none) DbGc[21969]: TrioRubbished id:1609863 s:2
Oct  8 02:44:31 (none) DbGc[21969]: TrioRubbished id:1609864 s:2
Oct  8 02:44:37 (none) DbGc[22006]: TrioRubbished id:1632297 s:2
Oct  8 02:44:55 (none) DbGc[22006]: TrioRubbished id:1838060 s:2
Oct  8 02:45:31 (none) DbGc[22030]: TrioRubbished id:1920572 s:2
Oct  8 02:46:07 (none) DbGc[22006]: TrioRubbished id:2055187 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:16 (none) DbGc[22037]: TrioRubbished id:2063708 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:17 (none) DbGc[22037]: TrioRubbished id:2068875 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:17 (none) DbGc[22037]: TrioRubbished id:2073805 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:18 (none) DbGc[22037]: TrioRubbished id:2077229 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:22 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083744 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:23 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083745 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:23 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083746 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:24 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083747 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:24 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083748 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:25 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083749 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:25 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083750 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:26 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083751 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:29 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083752 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:29 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083753 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:29 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083754 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:30 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083758 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:30 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083759 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:30 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083760 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:31 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083761 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:31 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083762 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:32 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083763 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:32 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083764 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:32 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083779 s:2
Oct  8 06:52:49 (none) TmkActivityStats[22912]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct  8 12:53:17 (none) TmkActivityStats[24248]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct  8 18:32:47 (none) DbGc[25516]: TrioRubbished id:2162512 s:2
Oct  8 18:32:48 (none) DbGc[25516]: TrioRubbished id:2162513 s:2
Oct  8 18:32:50 (none) DbGc[25502]: TrioRubbished id:2162514 s:2
Oct  8 18:53:46 (none) TmkActivityStats[25596]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct  9 00:54:14 (none) TmkActivityStats[26857]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct  9 06:54:43 (none) TmkActivityStats[28108]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct  9 12:55:11 (none) TmkActivityStats[29424]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct  9 13:44:43 (none) DbGc[29612]: TrioRubbished id:2234524 s:2
Oct  9 13:55:33 (none) DbGc[29642]: TrioRubbished id:2266835 s:2
Oct  9 13:55:37 (none) DbGc[29643]: TrioRubbished id:2266887 s:2
Oct  9 13:55:46 (none) DbGc[29642]: TrioRubbished id:2267045 s:2
Oct  9 15:56:07 (none) DbGc[30115]: TrioRubbished id:2267171 s:2
Oct  9 18:55:40 (none) TmkActivityStats[30675]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct 10 00:56:08 (none) TmkActivityStats[31948]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct 10 02:09:55 (none) DbGc[32208]: TrioRubbished id:2267172 s:2
Oct 10 02:09:59 (none) DbGc[32208]: TrioRubbished id:2267285 s:2
Oct 10 06:56:36 (none) TmkActivityStats[884]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct 10 12:57:05 (none) TmkActivityStats[2226]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct 10 18:57:33 (none) TmkActivityStats[3386]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct 11 00:58:02 (none) TmkActivityStats[4720]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct 11 06:58:30 (none) TmkActivityStats[6067]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)

You can see Oct 6 12:49:30 (none) DbGc[12083]: DbGc::StoreCompletionInDb: 15253/46170 (0x0)
This date matches System Information -> Indexing date (-4 hr offset from UTC)

Should it take* 10 hours and 13 minutes* to go from 2267171 to 2267172? (mfs_dumpobj info attached)
Oct 9 15:56:07 (none) DbGc[30115]: TrioRubbished id:2267171 s:2
Oct 10 02:09:55 (none) DbGc[32208]: TrioRubbished id:2267172 s:2

It's been sweeping ever since, you can see that it maybe picked up ~60 objects over a 4 day period.

I tried to increase dbgc's (and children's) priorities thinking that it was cpu starved but it made no difference.

My guess is maybe guide records in mfs apps are locked and dbgc is idling away waiting for a record to be freed. (I have no idea if there are record locks in mfs) I also observed very little cpu activity and strace was also pretty boring to watch...

Do you think routerplus would provide any insight?

I attached my TA's sw info below.

... Also, I have 3 TivoHDs and all of them are having this issue. I purchased them years apart, so we can rule out bad hardware.



lrhorer said:


> Well, as I understand it, the issue can be temporarily abated by taking down the internet connection to the Tivo for 3 or 4 days, right? One possibility would be to set up a proxy server for the TiVo's internet connections. The proxy can be set to automatically disable itself for 3 or 4 days at a time and then come back online for 5 or 6 days.


----------



## WO312

wtherrell said:


> Sun circles the earth?? From what century have you time-traveled here ??


Hmmm, guess my humor goes right over your head. We MUST be from different centuries.


----------



## WO312

lrhorer said:


> I would tend to suspect coincidence on that venue. Any chance you still have your 1T laying around for testing purposes?


I DO still have my 1 TB . Not a bad idea. Maybe I will do the experiment, but it's a real pain to open my Tivo as I have it sandwiched pretty well. I think I will continue with my current experiment first.


----------



## wtherrell

WO312 said:


> Hmmm, guess my humor goes right over your head. We MUST be from different centuries.


No, I got it. Alas, sometimes I just can't control my smart-ass reflex.


----------



## pninen

trackie999 said:


> WO312,
> *
> DO NOT RUN CHANNEL LINE UP FIX IF YOU RECEIVED S03 ERROR!
> YOU WILL GET STUCK IN A NEVER ENDING GUIDED SETUP -> S03 -> REBOOT LOOP!*
> If you have S03 Error, you can fix it by running "Clear program information & To Do List"


Well I recently had the S03 error, and I fixed it by doing the channel line up fix, and it worked for me. It rebooted twice and then it was all good.

PS: People have asked if this only happens on drives 1TB and above. The answer is no. It happened on my 750GB drive. TiVo told me the drive was bad so I bought a brand new 2TB drive from weaknees, and had the problem again in just a few weeks. Now I keep it under control by unplugging the internet connection for >48 hours every now and then.

Big pain in the ass.


----------



## Teeps

GC on my S3 (2tb), as of this morning, is still showing Saturday 8OCT2011. 

GC had self updated on 8OCT, from a previous GC date that was "forced" by an internet disconnection (only) of about 3 days.


----------



## trackie999

Good news everyone!

After 5 days 16 hours and 40.5 minutes my dbgc completed 

System Information Screen shows:
Program Information To: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 (Oct 6 + 13)
GC: Tuesday, October 11 12:11PM



Code:


Oct  6 05:06:48 (none) DbGc[12083]: fEnableIndexingM=1 fEnableGcM=1
Oct  6 05:10:19 (none) dbcache[12083]: Creating dbcache in program dbgc-mcp, size = 10
Oct  6 05:10:20 (none) DbGc[12083]: SetState(): eVirgin --> eBefored
Oct  6 05:10:20 (none) DbGc[12083]: SetState(): eBefored --> eMarkingActive
Oct  6 07:30:31 (none) DbGc[12083]: SetState(): eMarkingActive --> eMarkingReactive
Oct  6 07:30:40 (none) DbGc[12083]: SetState(): eMarkingReactive --> eTryingToInstallGcMask
Oct  6 07:30:40 (none) DbGc[12083]: SetState(): eTryingToInstallGcMask --> eInstallingGcMask
Oct  6 07:30:43 (none) DbGc[12083]: SetState(): eInstallingGcMask --> eSweeping
Oct  6 12:48:51 (none) DbGc::LogMemoryUsage[12083]: LogMemoryUsage( After DbShowingIndexer::VisitAllStationDays )
Oct  6 12:48:51 (none) TmkMempool[12083]: STAT dbgc-mcp: blocks=3648 bytes=1069912 bytesMax=1563840 unusedBytes=3093328 chunks=31 chunkBytes=974336 freeChunks=2 freeChunkBytes=1536 maxFreeChunk=2955848
Oct  6 12:49:00 (none) DbGc::LogMemoryUsage[12083]: LogMemoryUsage( pShowingWriterM )
Oct  6 12:49:00 (none) TmkMempool[12083]: STAT dbgc-mcp: blocks=3648 bytes=1069912 bytesMax=1563840 unusedBytes=3093328 chunks=31 chunkBytes=974336 freeChunks=2 freeChunkBytes=1536 maxFreeChunk=2955848
Oct  6 12:49:18 (none) DbGc::LogMemoryUsage[12083]: LogMemoryUsage( pProgramWriterM )
Oct  6 12:49:18 (none) TmkMempool[12083]: STAT dbgc-mcp: blocks=3648 bytes=1069912 bytesMax=1563840 unusedBytes=3093328 chunks=31 chunkBytes=974336 freeChunks=2 freeChunkBytes=1536 maxFreeChunk=2955848
Oct  6 12:49:18 (none) DbGc::LogMemoryUsage[12083]: LogMemoryUsage( pGenreWriterM )
Oct  6 12:49:18 (none) TmkMempool[12083]: STAT dbgc-mcp: blocks=3648 bytes=1069912 bytesMax=1563840 unusedBytes=3093328 chunks=31 chunkBytes=974336 freeChunks=2 freeChunkBytes=1536 maxFreeChunk=2955848
Oct  6 12:49:25 (none) DbGc::LogMemoryUsage[12083]: LogMemoryUsage( pSeriesIndexerM )
Oct  6 12:49:25 (none) TmkMempool[12083]: STAT dbgc-mcp: blocks=3648 bytes=1069912 bytesMax=1563840 unusedBytes=3093328 chunks=31 chunkBytes=974336 freeChunks=2 freeChunkBytes=1536 maxFreeChunk=2955848
Oct  6 12:49:25 (none) DbGc::LogMemoryUsage[12083]: LogMemoryUsage( After running pShowingIndexer )
Oct  6 12:49:25 (none) TmkMempool[12083]: STAT dbgc-mcp: blocks=3648 bytes=1069912 bytesMax=1563840 unusedBytes=3093328 chunks=31 chunkBytes=974336 freeChunks=2 freeChunkBytes=1536 maxFreeChunk=2955848
Oct  6 12:49:30 (none) DbGc[12083]: DbGc::AfterIndexersFSuccessful = 1
Oct  6 12:49:30 (none) DbGc[12083]: DbGc::StoreCompletionInDb: 15253/46170 (0x0)
Oct  6 12:49:30 (none) DbGc[12083]: DbGc::Mark succeeded, sweep soon
Oct  6 12:49:30 (none) TmkActivityStats[12083]: DbGcBackgroundAction-->(Pri:0 Time Sample: 7 h 42 min)
Oct  6 12:49:30 (none) TmkActivityStats[12113]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample: 9 h 12 min)
Oct  6 18:49:58 (none) TmkActivityStats[14904]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct  7 00:50:27 (none) TmkActivityStats[16192]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct  7 06:50:55 (none) TmkActivityStats[17658]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct  7 12:51:24 (none) TmkActivityStats[19019]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct  8 00:52:20 (none) TmkActivityStats[21601]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct  8 02:44:28 (none) DbGc[22006]: TrioRubbished id:1609861 s:2
Oct  8 02:44:29 (none) DbGc[22006]: TrioRubbished id:1609862 s:2
Oct  8 02:44:30 (none) DbGc[21969]: TrioRubbished id:1609863 s:2
Oct  8 02:44:31 (none) DbGc[21969]: TrioRubbished id:1609864 s:2
Oct  8 02:44:37 (none) DbGc[22006]: TrioRubbished id:1632297 s:2
Oct  8 02:44:55 (none) DbGc[22006]: TrioRubbished id:1838060 s:2
Oct  8 02:45:31 (none) DbGc[22030]: TrioRubbished id:1920572 s:2
Oct  8 02:46:07 (none) DbGc[22006]: TrioRubbished id:2055187 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:16 (none) DbGc[22037]: TrioRubbished id:2063708 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:17 (none) DbGc[22037]: TrioRubbished id:2068875 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:17 (none) DbGc[22037]: TrioRubbished id:2073805 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:18 (none) DbGc[22037]: TrioRubbished id:2077229 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:22 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083744 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:23 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083745 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:23 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083746 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:24 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083747 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:24 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083748 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:25 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083749 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:25 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083750 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:26 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083751 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:29 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083752 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:29 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083753 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:29 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083754 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:30 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083758 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:30 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083759 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:30 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083760 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:31 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083761 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:31 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083762 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:32 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083763 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:32 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083764 s:2
Oct  8 02:47:32 (none) DbGc[22032]: TrioRubbished id:2083779 s:2
Oct  8 06:52:49 (none) TmkActivityStats[22912]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct  8 12:53:17 (none) TmkActivityStats[24248]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct  8 18:32:47 (none) DbGc[25516]: TrioRubbished id:2162512 s:2
Oct  8 18:32:48 (none) DbGc[25516]: TrioRubbished id:2162513 s:2
Oct  8 18:32:50 (none) DbGc[25502]: TrioRubbished id:2162514 s:2
Oct  8 18:53:46 (none) TmkActivityStats[25596]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct  9 00:54:14 (none) TmkActivityStats[26857]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct  9 06:54:43 (none) TmkActivityStats[28108]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct  9 12:55:11 (none) TmkActivityStats[29424]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct  9 13:44:43 (none) DbGc[29612]: TrioRubbished id:2234524 s:2
Oct  9 13:55:33 (none) DbGc[29642]: TrioRubbished id:2266835 s:2
Oct  9 13:55:37 (none) DbGc[29643]: TrioRubbished id:2266887 s:2
Oct  9 13:55:46 (none) DbGc[29642]: TrioRubbished id:2267045 s:2
Oct  9 15:56:07 (none) DbGc[30115]: TrioRubbished id:2267171 s:2
Oct  9 18:55:40 (none) TmkActivityStats[30675]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct 10 00:56:08 (none) TmkActivityStats[31948]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct 10 02:09:55 (none) DbGc[32208]: TrioRubbished id:2267172 s:2
Oct 10 02:09:59 (none) DbGc[32208]: TrioRubbished id:2267285 s:2
Oct 10 06:56:36 (none) TmkActivityStats[884]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct 10 12:57:05 (none) TmkActivityStats[2226]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct 10 18:57:33 (none) TmkActivityStats[3386]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct 11 00:58:02 (none) TmkActivityStats[4720]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct 11 06:58:30 (none) TmkActivityStats[6067]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct 11 12:58:59 (none) TmkActivityStats[7338]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGc[8008]: Sweep done (eSucceeded) -- rescheduling marking in 61200 sec
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGc[8008]: SetState(): eSweeping --> eFinished
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGc[8008]: shouldTrioRubbishM 6696 56 65
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]: ---------------
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]: DbGC statistics
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]: {
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:           Type       #InMemory   #Queued     #Collected
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:           ~~~~       ~~~~~~~~~   ~~~~~~~~~~  ~~~~~~~~~~
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:             Program     36972      17152       2198
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:              Series     16823          0        327
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:             Station      1123          0          8
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:          StationDay       225      10373          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:             LoopSet        10          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:            SwSystem         0          1          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:            SwModule         6          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:           Recording         0       4552        400
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:            Showcase         0         10          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:               Image       514          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:             Headend         0         14          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:       ResourceGroup         0          1          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:               Setup         0          4          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:       ComponentCode       753          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:           Component       381          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:          SeasonPass         7         83          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:          PostalCode         2          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:        PrefsElement       146          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:               Genre       204          2          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:            IrFormat        84          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:         IrBlastData       192          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:           VideoClip        20          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:        IrTivoFormat         1        164          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:         MessageItem         4          2          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:             DataSet       136          0         27
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:            AreaCode         0          1          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:       DatabaseState         1          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:        MyWorldState         1          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:           LogoGroup         0          4          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:               Table         0          7          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:      CaptureRequest        10          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:             AuxInfo        13          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:          MediaState         0          1          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:      AvalancheState         1          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:            MenuItem        11        103          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:      LeadGeneration         0          8          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:        TuikResource      1721          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:    TuikResourceHolder         0       1803          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:    TuikResourceGroup        28         15          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:            AvConfig         1          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:       GeneralConfig         1          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:         PhoneConfig         1          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:      LocationConfig         1          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:           ArmConfig         1          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:    CorrelationPartHolder         1          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:       ServiceConfig         0          1          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:     LiveCacheConfig         1          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:    LocksLimitsState         1          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:       EncryptionKey        15         13          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:           NetConfig         1          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:            UserInfo         1          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:           DvdConfig         1          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:        StaticConfig         1          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:           SpigotMap         0          4          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:    ModelInformation         1          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:    ClosedCaptioningState         1          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:      ProviderConfig         1          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:        AdContentSet         1          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:            UnionTag        13          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:    NetworkRecordRequest         2          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:      RecorderConfig         1          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:    FrontPanelConfig         1          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:      MessageManager         1          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:           SecureLog         1          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:       SecureLogPart         1          0          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:    PodChannelHolder         0          9          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:    RegionRatingTable         0          1          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:           Cablecard         0          1          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:           SyncState         0          2          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:        ServerBackup         0         10          0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:           ~~~~~~~~~   ~~~~~~~~   ~~~~~~~~~~  ~~~~~~~~~~
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:               total     59440      34341       2960
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:  
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:   nRubbish=854  nTrioRubbish( recent=1 stale=0 made=41 ) 
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:   indexed=1 GCed=1
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:   fFoundDanglingRef=0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:   State:   eFinished
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:   Outcome: eSucceeded
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:   102402/262144 inodes used
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:  
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:   Attempts To Install GC Mask: 1
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:   ActiveLockConflicts during MarkActive: 0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:   ActiveLockConflicts during MarkActive (BurpQueue): 0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:   ActiveLockConflicts during MarkReactive (BurpQueue): 0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:   ActiveLockConflicts while sweeping: 0
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:   nNonMaskableFsIdsM while installing GC Mask: 12791
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:  
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:   msec MarkActive:      8400504 (140.0 mins)
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:   msec MarkReactive:       8652 (0.1 mins)
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:   msec Indexing:       19408346 (323.5 mins)
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:   msec InstallGcMask:      2829 (0.0 mins)
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:   msec SweepOne:         962887 (16.0 mins)
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:   sec  Sweep State:      463251 (7,720.9 mins)
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:  
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:          before App Blocks 34.1769% free (223536/654056)
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:          before Media Blocks 2.39975% free (58961920/2457006080)
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:             now App Blocks 34.6784% free (226816/654056)
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:             now Media Blocks 0.865209% free (21258240/2457006080)
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]:  
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]: }
Oct 11 16:11:34 (none) DbGcStats[8008]: ---------------
Oct 11 16:11:35 (none) DbGc[8008]: DbGc::StoreCompletionInDb: 15258/58294 (0x0)
Oct 11 18:59:27 (none) TmkActivityStats[8523]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)

As you can see vast majority of the time was spent in sweep state.

Also tverr is full of these messages:
Oct 11 05:59:54 (none) MakeDeltas[5861]: line 565 s = 0x30001
Oct 11 06:00:05 (none) last message repeated 40 times
Oct 11 06:00:10 (none) AckSyncId[5861]: line 784 s = 0x30001
Oct 11 06:00:21 (none) last message repeated 40 times

Process ID changes every time so these processes must be dying for some reason. Any idea what s=0x30001 represents?
Edit: I found ackSyncId string in tivoapp @ 01EA9E20 and MakeDeltas @ 01EA9D90
lrhorer: would you attempt to ID purpose?

Router will allow this Tivo to connect at midnight tonight, will see how long it will take to complete next dbgc run.


----------



## wtherrell

Well, unplugging the internet connection did not seem to be doing any good. My last GC was right after I had to clear and delete last August to correct SO3 error. Two months ago.Today GC was still on August 10. So today I did the Channel fix and the GC finally updated to today, Oct. 11. Maybe two months of garbage was too much for the Tivo HD to handle in 3 days or so of being disconnected from the internet. I am going to watch the updates and when it gets 4 days behind the program guide connection, I will try the internet disconnect again for a couple of days.


----------



## Eccles

pninen said:


> Well I recently had the S03 error, and I fixed it by doing the channel line up fix, and it worked for me. It rebooted twice and then it was all good.


Likewise, I used the Channel Lineup fix the last time my HD hit the S03 problem, and I had no problems at all.


----------



## WO312

lrhorer said:


> Again, there are lots of possibilities. The specific lineup may have something to do with it, or a firmware rev. With that in mind, are any of you running the same version I am:


My flash is F.1402 and my SARA is .a201, so I do have a difference from you.


----------



## WO312

Eccles said:


> Likewise, I used the Channel Lineup fix the last time my HD hit the S03 problem, and I had no problems at all.





pninen said:


> Well I recently had the S03 error, and I fixed it by doing the channel line up fix, and it worked for me. It rebooted twice and then it was all good.


Good to know.


----------



## trackie999

My TA is also F.1402 and with SARA .a201



WO312 said:


> My flash is F.1402 and my SARA is .a201, so I do have a difference from you.


----------



## trackie999

I suppose repeating Channel Line Up Fix is sometimes enough to fix S03.
However, there is a chance that it will just give you an S03 error during the loading phase. If that happens you're stuck in an endless loop and will have to restore from an image.

This happened to me and I got stuck in Guided set up loop so I rather tell everyone to Clear and delete program info. 
It's a lot simpler to fix broken season passes then pulling the drive for reimage (if you have an image) and deal with all the lost shows, pairing info, upset wife.


pninen said:


> Well I recently had the S03 error, and I fixed it by doing the channel line up fix, and it worked for me. It rebooted twice and then it was all good.
> 
> PS: People have asked if this only happens on drives 1TB and above. The answer is no. It happened on my 750GB drive. TiVo told me the drive was bad so I bought a brand new 2TB drive from weaknees, and had the problem again in just a few weeks. Now I keep it under control by unplugging the internet connection for >48 hours every now and then.
> 
> Big pain in the ass.





Eccles said:


> Likewise, I used the Channel Lineup fix the last time my HD hit the S03 problem, and I had no problems at all.





WO312 said:


> Good to know.


----------



## pninen

My series 3 TiVo is now in the mode (again!) where it keeps telling me program info is going to run out Oct 16th. This message shows up at the bottom of the "Record by" screen, for example. Today it popped up a message that said the same thing.

This conflicts with the program info I am able to see inside my TiVo. If I go to the record by screen, and look at the program info, I can see program info going out thru Oct 24th.

This situation has persisted for several days. 

Recent network connections have "succeeded", according to the network screen. Last GC was October 2. Quite some time ago.

Earlier I had the ethernet cable unplugged for about 60 hours. No GC. After that I plugged in the cable, and forced a connection. No improvement. The connection "succeeded", according to the network screen, but the TiVo still thinks its info ends on Oct 16th, so obviously processing the data didn't really succeed.

I unplugged the cable again, and it has been unplugged another 60 hours so far. No change. No GC. Still thinks its gonna run out Oct 16th.

I'm considering another redo of channel setup. Last time I did that it made the thing work for another 2 or 3 days before it started complaining again. I really would prefer not to do the clear everything, because I really dislike reentering all the season passes.

Any ideas?

San Diego Time Warner, Cisco tuning adapter, 2TB internal drive.
TiVo s/w 11.Ok-01-2-648
Tuning Adapter s/w
PTV OS: Explorer1kg6 NGP OS
Flash: STA1.0.0_1520_LR_F.1402
App(s): SARA v1.61.41.a201

Any thoughts on how to get TiVo to fix this problem? Do we all need to show up and camp out on their lawn for a few weeks or what? Send several hundred phone ordered pizzas? What do you think would do it?


----------



## ravingfans

Ok, I got past the Guided Setup loop (Whoop! - thanks Trackie) on my original drives WK 1TB Int + 1TB Ext. What test would you guys like me to run now? Remember it is still stuck in an S03 error, unless the Guided Setup loop fix temporarily brings it out--haven't tried yet.


----------



## tootal2

how did you get past it? i had to re image the drive to get past it.

I think if you delete your todo list and all your season passes it will fis the s03 error in a few days



ravingfans said:


> Ok, I got past the Guided Setup loop (Whoop! - thanks Trackie) on my original drives WK 1TB Int + 1TB Ext. What test would you guys like me to run now? Remember it is still stuck in an S03 error, unless the Guided Setup loop fix temporarily brings it out--haven't tried yet.


----------



## ravingfans

tootal2 said:


> how did you get past it? i had to re image the drive to get past it.
> 
> I think if you delete your todo list and all your season passes it will fis the s03 error in a few days


To get past the guided setup loop, have to run fakecall.tcl with the 3 additional lines recommended by the link to another forum provided by Trackie . This sets the stat/GeneralConfig Configured variable to "1 257 513". 1 is for (Satellite?) Guided Setup completed, 257 is for Phone Setup call completed, and 513 is for Network Setup call completed. After restarting, the Tivo complains about the toll-free number changing, but that is easily changed by telling it to connect via network connection.

Since I went back to my old disk setup as a test, it was mainly with the intention of running tests to help diagnose the S03 error.


----------



## Teeps

pninen said:


> My series 3 TiVo is now in the mode (again!) where it keeps telling me program info is going to run out Oct 16th.
> 
> Any ideas?


Try disconnecting TiVo from the internet, first. 
If GC does not reset to a more current date, in a few days. Do the channel lineup fix.


----------



## Teeps

Teeps said:


> Which is the point, as I pointed "them" to this thread as proof.
> 
> Since I last did the channel fix and disconnect from the internet. The GC updated after about 3 days. Then hung on that date. I gave it 3 days, disconnected the internet. On the third day GC updated. The last GC update (result from internet disconnect) last Wed appeared stuck, but yesterday evening I noticed that GC HAD updated on its own!!!!
> 
> So the GC clock is ticking again 8Oct2011.


As of Wed 12OCT2011, GC was had not changed from 8Oct2011. 
So I disconnected TiVo from the internet. 
This morning GC date is Thursday 13OCT2011.

Now I'm wondering if I was premature on disconnecting the internet... as GC did update on its own last Saturday.


----------



## WO312

Teeps said:


> As of Wed 12OCT2011, GC was had not changed from 8Oct2011.
> So I disconnected TiVo from the internet.
> This morning GC date is Thursday 13OCT2011.
> 
> Now I'm wondering if I was premature on disconnecting the internet... as GC did update on its own last Saturday.


I don't think you were premature. I think disconnecting is what caused it. GC should update every day or two, not 5 days later. I also have two Series 2 machines and they update just about every day.

I have experienced the exact same thing in the past 3 days. I do an update, disconnect from the internet, and then GC updates within a day. If I leave the internet connected it doesn't update.


----------



## WO312

pninen said:


> My series 3 TiVo is now in the mode (again!) where it keeps telling me program info is going to run out Oct 16th. This message shows up at the bottom of the "Record by" screen, for example. Today it popped up a message that said the same thing.
> 
> This conflicts with the program info I am able to see inside my TiVo. If I go to the record by screen, and look at the program info, I can see program info going out thru Oct 24th.
> 
> This situation has persisted for several days.
> 
> Recent network connections have "succeeded", according to the network screen. Last GC was October 2. Quite some time ago.
> 
> Earlier I had the ethernet cable unplugged for about 60 hours. No GC. After that I plugged in the cable, and forced a connection. No improvement. The connection "succeeded", according to the network screen, but the TiVo still thinks its info ends on Oct 16th, so obviously processing the data didn't really succeed.
> 
> I unplugged the cable again, and it has been unplugged another 60 hours so far. No change. No GC. Still thinks its gonna run out Oct 16th.
> 
> I'm considering another redo of channel setup. Last time I did that it made the thing work for another 2 or 3 days before it started complaining again. I really would prefer not to do the clear everything, because I really dislike reentering all the season passes.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> San Diego Time Warner, Cisco tuning adapter, 2TB internal drive.
> TiVo s/w 11.Ok-01-2-648
> Tuning Adapter s/w
> PTV OS: Explorer1kg6 NGP OS
> Flash: STA1.0.0_1520_LR_F.1402
> App(s): SARA v1.61.41.a201
> 
> Any thoughts on how to get TiVo to fix this problem? Do we all need to show up and camp out on their lawn for a few weeks or what? Send several hundred phone ordered pizzas? What do you think would do it?


I would do the channel fix. That forces a GC, although it will take more than an hour, perhaps much more.

Then I would force an update, and after it disconnects from the Tivo server, disconnect from the internet. Check daily to see when GC updates. With any luck, with what I'm experiencing lately, it should update within a day or so. Then connect again for another update, and wash, rinse, and repeat.

No thoughts on how to get Tivo to fix this. I've owned numerous Tivo's since 2000 but I am getting disillusioned.


----------



## trackie999

Could you let this set up bake for a week or so? Leave network connection plugged in & let it connect daily. 
Also, your single 2TB set up was full of recordings. Can you make sure this set up has ~same number of season passes and is doing lots of recording?

Hopefully GC will get stuck even though your daily calls succeed...

.. I found a spare 1TB Seagate Drive, and will install it in my 2nd TivoHD with 2GB+ swap as soon as I have a chance to install my DIY prom kit.



ravingfans said:


> To get past the guided setup loop, have to run fakecall.tcl with the 3 additional lines recommended by the link to another forum provided by Trackie . This sets the stat/GeneralConfig Configured variable to "1 257 513". 1 is for (Satellite?) Guided Setup completed, 257 is for Phone Setup call completed, and 513 is for Network Setup call completed. After restarting, the Tivo complains about the toll-free number changing, but that is easily changed by telling it to connect via network connection.
> 
> Since I went back to my old disk setup as a test, it was mainly with the intention of running tests to help diagnose the S03 error.


----------



## trackie999

I would leave your network cable unplugged until GC date changes. Based on what I see in the logs, GC will complete as long as it is not interrupted by a daily call. My first GC took over 6 days and my current GC run has been going for 2+ days now. (logs confirm it is still running)

So, just let it churn...


WO312 said:


> I would do the channel fix. That forces a GC, although it will take more than an hour, perhaps much more.
> 
> Then I would force an update, and after it disconnects from the Tivo server, disconnect from the internet. Check daily to see when GC updates. With any luck, with what I'm experiencing lately, it should update within a day or so. Then connect again for another update, and wash, rinse, and repeat.
> 
> No thoughts on how to get Tivo to fix this. I've owned numerous Tivo's since 2000 but I am getting disillusioned.


----------



## trackie999

Could you guys check your TA version info?

So far everyone (3 ppl) experiencing this issue seemed to report:
Flash: STA1.0.0_1520_LR_F.1402
App(s): SARA v1.61.41.a201

while lrhorer reported a newer version (and he is not having this problem)

I suspect TA sw version has to match head end sw version, so I won't hold my breath for an easy fix...



pninen said:


> My series 3 TiVo is now in the mode (again!) where it keeps telling me program info is going to run out Oct 16th. This message shows up at the bottom of the "Record by" screen, for example. Today it popped up a message that said the same thing.
> 
> This conflicts with the program info I am able to see inside my TiVo. If I go to the record by screen, and look at the program info, I can see program info going out thru Oct 24th.
> 
> This situation has persisted for several days.
> 
> Recent network connections have "succeeded", according to the network screen. Last GC was October 2. Quite some time ago.
> 
> Earlier I had the ethernet cable unplugged for about 60 hours. No GC. After that I plugged in the cable, and forced a connection. No improvement. The connection "succeeded", according to the network screen, but the TiVo still thinks its info ends on Oct 16th, so obviously processing the data didn't really succeed.
> 
> I unplugged the cable again, and it has been unplugged another 60 hours so far. No change. No GC. Still thinks its gonna run out Oct 16th.
> 
> I'm considering another redo of channel setup. Last time I did that it made the thing work for another 2 or 3 days before it started complaining again. I really would prefer not to do the clear everything, because I really dislike reentering all the season passes.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> San Diego Time Warner, Cisco tuning adapter, 2TB internal drive.
> TiVo s/w 11.Ok-01-2-648
> Tuning Adapter s/w
> PTV OS: Explorer1kg6 NGP OS
> Flash: STA1.0.0_1520_LR_F.1402
> App(s): SARA v1.61.41.a201
> 
> Any thoughts on how to get TiVo to fix this problem? Do we all need to show up and camp out on their lawn for a few weeks or what? Send several hundred phone ordered pizzas? What do you think would do it?


----------



## chrisdfw

Motorola TA here


----------



## WO312

New observation:

I don't recall this being mentioned before, but I just checked my Tivo to see if GC updated. Last GC update was yesterday around noon, the last connection was about 1:00 yesterday afternoon, then I disconnected the internet. Right now, at 11:00 PM Friday night, the Tivo is indicating that the last update, at 1:00 Thursday, succeeded, and the next scheduled is Friday at 3:38 PM. Well, that time is long gone but the HD doesn't recognize the failed call. Yesterday I had a recognized failed call and a GC update. Not sure if the two are related or not.

I have previously noticed that the time for a call had passed, but I've never followed up on it. This time, I'm going to let this thing percolate to see if it ever recognizes a failed call or if the GC updates. If neither happens in the next 5 days or so I will do a channel fix, because I want guide data in case of any last minute changes. We'll see.


----------



## WO312

Nothing came of the above. This morning there was a failed attempt recognized about 6:30 AM. Then, just recently at 10:23 AM there was another failed attempt. Still no GC update. I'm going to keep watching.


----------



## trackie999

Quick Update:

My first Successful GC took 5 days 16 hours and completed on Oct 11. On Oct 12th, I allowed my Tivo to connect & download new guide data.

There has been 2 GC attempts since. 
The first attempt aborted after less then 2 hours with the mysterious eMfsTooFast exit code:



Code:


Oct 12 16:09:55 (none) DbGc[13430]: fEnableIndexingM=1 fEnableGcM=1
Oct 12 16:13:23 (none) dbcache[13430]: Creating dbcache in program dbgc-mcp, size = 10
Oct 12 16:13:24 (none) DbGc[13430]: SetState(): eVirgin --> eBefored
Oct 12 16:13:24 (none) DbGc[13430]: SetState(): eBefored --> eMarkingActive
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGc[13430]: SetState(): eMarkingActive --> eFinished
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGc[13430]: DbGc::AfterIndexersFSuccessful = 0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGc[13430]: DbGc::Mark failed (eMfsTooFast), rescheduling in 900 secs
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGc[13430]: shouldTrioRubbishM 5984 45 67
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]: ---------------
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]: DbGC statistics
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]: {
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:           Type       #InMemory   #Queued     #Collected
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:           ~~~~       ~~~~~~~~~   ~~~~~~~~~~  ~~~~~~~~~~
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:             Program     26438      12049          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:              Series     11325          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:             Station       705          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:          StationDay       186       8620          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:             LoopSet         6          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:            SwSystem         0          1          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:            SwModule         6          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:           Recording         0       3019          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:            Showcase         0          9          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:               Image       320          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:             Headend         0          7          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:       ResourceGroup         0          1          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:       ComponentCode       481          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:           Component       242          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:          SeasonPass         2         56          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:          PostalCode         2          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:        PrefsElement        91          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:               Genre       127          1          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:            IrFormat        52          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:         IrBlastData       122          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:           VideoClip        12          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:        IrTivoFormat         1        103          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:         MessageItem         2          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:             DataSet        74          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:       DatabaseState         1          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:           LogoGroup         0          2          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:               Table         0          4          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:      CaptureRequest         6          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:             AuxInfo        11          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:          MediaState         0          1          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:      AvalancheState         1          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:            MenuItem         8         79          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:      LeadGeneration         0          7          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:        TuikResource      1075          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:    TuikResourceHolder         0       1136          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:    TuikResourceGroup        19          9          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:            AvConfig         1          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:       GeneralConfig         1          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:      LocationConfig         1          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:       ServiceConfig         0          1          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:    LocksLimitsState         1          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:       EncryptionKey        11         12          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:           NetConfig         1          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:            UserInfo         1          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:           DvdConfig         1          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:        StaticConfig         1          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:           SpigotMap         0          2          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:    ClosedCaptioningState         1          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:      ProviderConfig         1          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:        AdContentSet         1          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:            UnionTag        14          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:    NetworkRecordRequest         2          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:      RecorderConfig         1          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:      MessageManager         1          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:       SecureLogPart         1          0          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:    PodChannelHolder         0          2          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:           Cablecard         0          1          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:           SyncState         0          1          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:        ServerBackup         0          5          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:           ~~~~~~~~~   ~~~~~~~~   ~~~~~~~~~~  ~~~~~~~~~~
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:               total     41356      25128          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:  
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:   nRubbish=309  nTrioRubbish( recent=0 stale=0 made=0 ) 
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:   indexed=1 GCed=1
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:   State:   eFinished
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:   Outcome: eMfsTooFast
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:   72439/262144 inodes used
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:  
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:   Attempts To Install GC Mask: 0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:   ActiveLockConflicts during MarkActive: 0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:   ActiveLockConflicts during MarkActive (BurpQueue): 0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:   ActiveLockConflicts during MarkReactive (BurpQueue): 0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:   ActiveLockConflicts while sweeping: 0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:   nNonMaskableFsIdsM while installing GC Mask: 0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:  
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:   msec MarkActive:      6396783
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:   msec MarkReactive:          0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:   msec Indexing:         278862
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:   msec InstallGcMask:         0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:   msec SweepOne:              0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:   sec  Sweep State:           0
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:  
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:          before App Blocks 26.9176% free (176056/654056)
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:          before Media Blocks 0.836035% free (20541440/2457006080)
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:             now App Blocks 26.9163% free (176048/654056)
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:             now Media Blocks 0.819365% free (20131840/2457006080)
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]:  
Oct 12 18:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[13430]: }

The second attempt kicked off about 4 hrs later and is still running:


Code:


Oct 12 22:00:03 (none) DbGc[14685]: fEnableIndexingM=1 fEnableGcM=1
Oct 12 22:03:51 (none) dbcache[14685]: Creating dbcache in program dbgc-mcp, size = 10
Oct 12 22:03:52 (none) DbGc[14685]: SetState(): eVirgin --> eBefored
Oct 12 22:03:52 (none) DbGc[14685]: SetState(): eBefored --> eMarkingActive
Oct 13 00:53:48 (none) DbGc[14685]: SetState(): eMarkingActive --> eMarkingReactive
Oct 13 00:53:53 (none) DbGc[14685]: SetState(): eMarkingReactive --> eTryingToInstallGcMask
Oct 13 00:53:53 (none) DbGc[14685]: SetState(): eTryingToInstallGcMask --> eInstallingGcMask
Oct 13 00:53:56 (none) DbGc[14685]: SetState(): eInstallingGcMask --> eSweeping
Oct 13 08:16:41 (none) DbGc::LogMemoryUsage[14685]: LogMemoryUsage( After DbShowingIndexer::VisitAllStationDays )
Oct 13 08:16:41 (none) TmkMempool[14685]: STAT dbgc-mcp: blocks=3583 bytes=1066056 bytesMax=1715712 unusedBytes=3097704 chunks=31 chunkBytes=974336 freeChunks=2 freeChunkBytes=1536 maxFreeChunk=2955848
Oct 13 08:16:49 (none) DbGc::LogMemoryUsage[14685]: LogMemoryUsage( pShowingWriterM )
Oct 13 08:16:49 (none) TmkMempool[14685]: STAT dbgc-mcp: blocks=3583 bytes=1066056 bytesMax=1715712 unusedBytes=3097704 chunks=31 chunkBytes=974336 freeChunks=2 freeChunkBytes=1536 maxFreeChunk=2955848
Oct 13 08:17:07 (none) DbGc::LogMemoryUsage[14685]: LogMemoryUsage( pProgramWriterM )
Oct 13 08:17:07 (none) TmkMempool[14685]: STAT dbgc-mcp: blocks=3583 bytes=1066056 bytesMax=1715712 unusedBytes=3097704 chunks=31 chunkBytes=974336 freeChunks=2 freeChunkBytes=1536 maxFreeChunk=2955848
Oct 13 08:17:07 (none) DbGc::LogMemoryUsage[14685]: LogMemoryUsage( pGenreWriterM )
Oct 13 08:17:07 (none) TmkMempool[14685]: STAT dbgc-mcp: blocks=3583 bytes=1066056 bytesMax=1715712 unusedBytes=3097704 chunks=31 chunkBytes=974336 freeChunks=2 freeChunkBytes=1536 maxFreeChunk=2955848
Oct 13 08:17:15 (none) DbGc::LogMemoryUsage[14685]: LogMemoryUsage( pSeriesIndexerM )
Oct 13 08:17:15 (none) TmkMempool[14685]: STAT dbgc-mcp: blocks=3583 bytes=1066056 bytesMax=1715712 unusedBytes=3097704 chunks=31 chunkBytes=974336 freeChunks=2 freeChunkBytes=1536 maxFreeChunk=2955848
Oct 13 08:17:15 (none) DbGc::LogMemoryUsage[14685]: LogMemoryUsage( After running pShowingIndexer )
Oct 13 08:17:15 (none) TmkMempool[14685]: STAT dbgc-mcp: blocks=3583 bytes=1066056 bytesMax=1715712 unusedBytes=3097704 chunks=31 chunkBytes=974336 freeChunks=2 freeChunkBytes=1536 maxFreeChunk=2955848
Oct 13 08:17:20 (none) DbGc[14685]: DbGc::AfterIndexersFSuccessful = 1
Oct 13 08:17:20 (none) DbGc[14685]: DbGc::StoreCompletionInDb: 15260/29840 (0x0)
Oct 13 08:17:20 (none) DbGc[14685]: DbGc::Mark succeeded, sweep soon
Oct 13 08:17:20 (none) TmkActivityStats[14685]: DbGcBackgroundAction-->(Pri:0 Time Sample: 10 h 16 min)
Oct 13 08:17:20 (none) TmkActivityStats[14705]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample: 13 h 14 min)
Oct 13 14:17:48 (none) TmkActivityStats[18009]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct 13 20:18:17 (none) TmkActivityStats[19391]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct 14 02:18:45 (none) TmkActivityStats[21067]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct 14 08:19:13 (none) TmkActivityStats[22426]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct 14 14:19:42 (none) TmkActivityStats[23848]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct 14 20:20:10 (none) TmkActivityStats[25165]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct 15 08:21:07 (none) TmkActivityStats[27705]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct 15 14:21:36 (none) TmkActivityStats[28957]:   DbGcClientActivity-->(Pri:0 Time Sample:  6 h 0 min)
Oct 15 15:06:57 (none) DbGc[29136]: TrioRubbished id:2161329 s:2
Oct 15 15:06:57 (none) DbGc[29136]: TrioRubbished id:2161330 s:2
Oct 15 15:06:57 (none) DbGc[29136]: TrioRubbished id:2161633 s:2
Oct 15 15:06:57 (none) DbGc[29136]: TrioRubbished id:2161683 s:2
Oct 15 15:06:58 (none) DbGc[29136]: TrioRubbished id:2161684 s:2
Oct 15 15:06:59 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2162070 s:2
Oct 15 15:07:00 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2162118 s:2
Oct 15 15:07:00 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2162121 s:2
Oct 15 15:07:00 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2162126 s:2
Oct 15 15:07:01 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2162133 s:2
Oct 15 15:07:01 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2162519 s:2
Oct 15 15:07:15 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2186168 s:2
Oct 15 15:07:25 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2197993 s:2
Oct 15 15:07:43 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2212962 s:2
Oct 15 15:07:44 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2212974 s:2
Oct 15 15:07:44 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2212990 s:2
Oct 15 15:07:45 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2213032 s:2
Oct 15 15:07:45 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2213034 s:2
Oct 15 15:07:46 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2213120 s:2
Oct 15 15:07:48 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2213122 s:2
Oct 15 15:07:48 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2213260 s:2
Oct 15 15:07:49 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2213281 s:2
Oct 15 15:07:49 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2213316 s:2
Oct 15 15:07:49 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2213359 s:2
Oct 15 15:07:50 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2213372 s:2
Oct 15 15:07:50 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2213388 s:2
Oct 15 15:07:51 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2213424 s:2
Oct 15 15:07:55 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2215721 s:2
Oct 15 15:07:55 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2215939 s:2
Oct 15 15:07:56 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2215943 s:2
Oct 15 15:07:56 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2215953 s:2
Oct 15 15:07:57 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2215956 s:2
Oct 15 15:07:57 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2215968 s:2
Oct 15 15:07:57 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2216103 s:2
Oct 15 15:07:58 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2216197 s:2
Oct 15 15:08:00 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2216230 s:2
Oct 15 15:08:00 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2216270 s:2
Oct 15 15:08:01 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2216291 s:2
Oct 15 15:08:01 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2216294 s:2
Oct 15 15:08:01 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2216308 s:2
Oct 15 15:08:02 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2216322 s:2
Oct 15 15:08:02 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2216324 s:2
Oct 15 15:08:03 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2216355 s:2
Oct 15 15:08:03 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2216377 s:2
Oct 15 15:08:04 (none) DbGc[29111]: TrioRubbished id:2216386 s:2
Oct 15 15:08:06 (none) DbGc[29137]: TrioRubbished id:2216426 s:2
Oct 15 15:08:06 (none) DbGc[29137]: TrioRubbished id:2216431 s:2
Oct 15 15:08:07 (none) DbGc[29137]: TrioRubbished id:2216446 s:2
Oct 15 15:08:21 (none) DbGc[29137]: TrioRubbished id:2221210 s:2
Oct 15 15:08:21 (none) DbGc[29137]: TrioRubbished id:2221216 s:2
Oct 15 15:08:22 (none) DbGc[29137]: TrioRubbished id:2221923 s:2
Oct 15 15:08:45 (none) DbGc[29142]: TrioRubbished id:2227414 s:2
Oct 15 15:09:01 (none) DbGc[29142]: TrioRubbished id:2230075 s:2
Oct 15 15:09:01 (none) DbGc[29142]: TrioRubbished id:2230119 s:2
Oct 15 15:09:02 (none) DbGc[29142]: TrioRubbished id:2230149 s:2
Oct 15 15:09:12 (none) DbGc[29142]: TrioRubbished id:2234516 s:2
Oct 15 15:09:12 (none) DbGc[29142]: TrioRubbished id:2234517 s:2
Oct 15 15:09:13 (none) DbGc[29142]: TrioRubbished id:2234526 s:2
Oct 15 15:09:24 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2237732 s:2
Oct 15 15:09:24 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2237740 s:2
Oct 15 15:09:25 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2237742 s:2
Oct 15 15:09:25 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2237839 s:2
Oct 15 15:09:56 (none) DbGc[29148]: TrioRubbished id:2248755 s:2
Oct 15 15:09:56 (none) DbGc[29148]: TrioRubbished id:2248767 s:2
Oct 15 15:09:57 (none) DbGc[29148]: TrioRubbished id:2248782 s:2
Oct 15 15:09:57 (none) DbGc[29148]: TrioRubbished id:2248783 s:2
Oct 15 15:09:58 (none) DbGc[29148]: TrioRubbished id:2248784 s:2
Oct 15 15:10:00 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2248791 s:2
Oct 15 15:10:09 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2252118 s:2
Oct 15 15:10:09 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2253154 s:2
Oct 15 15:10:09 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2253161 s:2
Oct 15 15:10:10 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2253163 s:2
Oct 15 15:10:12 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2253172 s:2
Oct 15 15:10:31 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2258886 s:2
Oct 15 15:10:32 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2259383 s:2
Oct 15 15:10:32 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2259385 s:2
Oct 15 15:10:38 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2263294 s:2
Oct 15 15:10:39 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2263311 s:2
Oct 15 15:10:39 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2263316 s:2
Oct 15 15:10:49 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2266830 s:2
Oct 15 15:10:50 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2266834 s:2
Oct 15 15:10:50 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2266840 s:2
Oct 15 15:10:51 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2266854 s:2
Oct 15 15:10:51 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2266855 s:2
Oct 15 15:10:52 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2266877 s:2
Oct 15 15:10:54 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2266882 s:2
Oct 15 15:10:55 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2266892 s:2
Oct 15 15:10:55 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2266894 s:2
Oct 15 15:10:56 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2266930 s:2
Oct 15 15:10:56 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2266931 s:2
Oct 15 15:10:57 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2266947 s:2
Oct 15 15:10:57 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2266956 s:2
Oct 15 15:10:58 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2266965 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:00 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2266967 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:00 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2266969 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:01 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2267004 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:01 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2267005 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:02 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2267007 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:02 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2267043 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:03 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2267053 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:03 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2267061 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:04 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2267073 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:06 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2267076 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:06 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2267115 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:07 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2267125 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:07 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2267146 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:08 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2267215 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:09 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2267221 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:09 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2267243 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:10 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2267249 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:12 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2267513 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:13 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2267514 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:13 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2267515 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:13 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2267516 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:14 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2267522 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:30 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2272382 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:42 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2275951 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:43 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2275952 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:43 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2276006 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:44 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2276007 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:44 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2276008 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:45 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2276014 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:45 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2276158 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:45 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2276173 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:46 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2276199 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:48 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2276203 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:48 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2276238 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:49 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2276270 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:49 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2276271 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:50 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2276272 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:50 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2276273 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:51 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2276274 s:2
Oct 15 15:11:51 (none) DbGc[29144]: TrioRubbished id:2276275 s:2
Oct 15 15:12:19 (none) DbGc[29154]: TrioRubbished id:2281419 s:2
Oct 15 15:12:21 (none) DbGc[29154]: TrioRubbished id:2281426 s:2
Oct 15 15:12:23 (none) DbGc[29154]: TrioRubbished id:2281427 s:2
Oct 15 15:12:23 (none) DbGc[29154]: TrioRubbished id:2281428 s:2
Oct 15 15:12:24 (none) DbGc[29154]: TrioRubbished id:2281429 s:2
Oct 15 15:12:26 (none) DbGc[29154]: TrioRubbished id:2281439 s:2
Oct 15 15:12:27 (none) DbGc[29154]: TrioRubbished id:2281440 s:2
Oct 15 15:12:27 (none) DbGc[29154]: TrioRubbished id:2281445 s:2
Oct 15 15:12:28 (none) DbGc[29154]: TrioRubbished id:2281448 s:2
Oct 15 16:48:50 (none) DbGc[29478]: TrioRubbished id:2285162 s:2
Oct 15 16:48:51 (none) DbGc[29478]: TrioRubbished id:2285163 s:2
Oct 15 16:48:51 (none) DbGc[29478]: TrioRubbished id:2285164 s:2
Oct 15 16:48:51 (none) DbGc[29478]: TrioRubbished id:2285165 s:2
Oct 15 16:48:52 (none) DbGc[29478]: TrioRubbished id:2285166 s:2
Oct 15 16:48:53 (none) DbGc[29564]: TrioRubbished id:2285167 s:2
Oct 15 16:48:54 (none) DbGc[29564]: TrioRubbished id:2285168 s:2
Oct 15 16:48:54 (none) DbGc[29564]: TrioRubbished id:2285173 s:2
Oct 15 16:48:55 (none) DbGc[29564]: TrioRubbished id:2285174 s:2
Oct 15 16:48:55 (none) DbGc[29564]: TrioRubbished id:2285175 s:2

Indexing was done in about 10 hours and the date updated on System Information screen:
Oct 13 08:17:20 (none) DbGc[14685]: DbGc::AfterIndexersFSuccessful = 1
Oct 13 08:17:20 (none) DbGc[14685]: DbGc::StoreCompletionInDb: 15260/29840 (0x0)

Since then it's been sweeping (Garbage collecting), and it didn't really catch anything for the first *54 hours* of sweeping when it rubbished 52 objects in ~5 minutes.

My first dbgc that took over 5 days started spitting out rubbish info after a mere 36 hours. I hope this is not an indication of dbgc running slower.
Also, the highest fsid from the first run was 2267171 and this dbgc run is already rubbishing 2285175. (It appears that dbgc is going from lowest to highest) Tivo is currently recording fsid 2399917 so it's maybe halfway done?


Spoiler



For you hardcore fans of math:

1st rubbished fsid: 2161329
last rubbished fsid: 2285175 
highest fsid: 2399917

2285175 - 2161329 = 123846
2399917 - 2285175 = 114742

Time remaining is probably dependent on # of recordings/objects and not just fsids anyways...


----------



## trackie999

I took some pics to illustrate my TivoHD's split personality:

- In the now playing list it shows that it is recording "Good Luck Charlie" and "Fairly Odd Parents"
- If I go to Live TV and check the guide it shows "Good Luck Charlie" and "Avatar: The Last Airbender" Actual show on TV is "Avatar: The Last Airbender"

This happens all the time and basically renders my DVR into a random show recording machine, completely defeating the purpose of having a Tivo.

My Tivo can't perform its most basic function of recording a show (that I have selected to record). Tivo, are you listening?

*Edit*: I added another pick to show that my Tivo is able to record 5 days past it's guide end date. It is now capable of predicting the future!


----------



## WO312

trackie999 said:


> Quick Update:
> 
> My first Successful GC took 5 days 16 hours and completed on Oct 11. On Oct 12th, I allowed my Tivo to connect & download new guide data....


trackie, I sure wish I knew what you are talking about.  

So how are you looking at all this data? I remember from my Series 1 days that it was easy to get into the Tivo, then they made it much harder with Series 2, but then people figured out how to do it. I haven't followed those threads in the Underground for ages. So I'm guessing it's still possible to get inside the Tivo HD without a modded prom. Or is that what you have?

And most important, is there a practical value here, other than watching what's going on?? It looks like ravingfan was able to use fakecall.tcl to fix his guided setup problem, so that's certainly practical. Anything else? I am assuming that anything you find with GC would just point Tivo and/or TWC in a direction to fix the problem, not anything we could do to help ourselves.


----------



## WO312

trackie999 said:


> I took some pics to illustrate my TivoHD's split personality:
> 
> - In the now playing list it shows that it is recording "Good Luck Charlie" and "Fairly Odd Parents"
> - If I go to Live TV and check the guide it shows "Good Luck Charlie" and "Avatar: The Last Airbender" Actual show on TV is "Avatar: The Last Airbender"
> 
> This happens all the time and basically renders my DVR into a random show recording machine, completely defeating the purpose of having a Tivo.
> 
> My Tivo can't perform its most basic function of recording a show (that I have selected to record). Tivo, are you listening?


Interesting. I don't believe I have ever seen that behavior with my machine. My first thought was that it was old data that hadn't been corrected yet because of all the connection issues, but it seems like your last GC and subsequent download would have fixed that. Unless it was a very recent change on the part of the network that is not being caught by your Tivo because it is not keeping up because of the GC problem. I assume that is what you are inferring?


----------



## WO312

WO312 said:


> New observation:
> 
> I don't recall this being mentioned before, but I just checked my Tivo to see if GC updated. Last GC update was yesterday around noon, the last connection was about 1:00 yesterday afternoon, then I disconnected the internet. Right now, at 11:00 PM Friday night, the Tivo is indicating that the last update, at 1:00 Thursday, succeeded, and the next scheduled is Friday at 3:38 PM. Well, that time is long gone but the HD doesn't recognize the failed call. Yesterday I had a recognized failed call and a GC update. Not sure if the two are related or not.
> 
> I have previously noticed that the time for a call had passed, but I've never followed up on it. This time, I'm going to let this thing percolate to see if it ever recognizes a failed call or if the GC updates. If neither happens in the next 5 days or so I will do a channel fix, because I want guide data in case of any last minute changes. We'll see.


O.K., so I now have my GC update with the internet disconnected. Previous one was Thur. about noon, now Sat. at 5:15 PM, so a little more than 48 hours. I will force a connection and disconnect again.


----------



## trackie999

If nothing, we now know that GC will complete as long as you disconnect network. (ie: daily call interrupts GC)
We are learning something new every week, so we may find a self help option. (Have you tested 2GB swap? It works for Ravingfans)

... I do have a socketed TivoHD and getting ready to socket another one Monday 



WO312 said:


> trackie, I sure wish I knew what you are talking about.
> 
> So how are you looking at all this data? I remember from my Series 1 days that it was easy to get into the Tivo, then they made it much harder with Series 2, but then people figured out how to do it. I haven't followed those threads in the Underground for ages. So I'm guessing it's still possible to get inside the Tivo HD without a modded prom. Or is that what you have?
> 
> And most important, is there a practical value here, other than watching what's going on?? It looks like ravingfan was able to use fakecall.tcl to fix his guided setup problem, so that's certainly practical. Anything else? I am assuming that anything you find with GC would just point Tivo and/or TWC in a direction to fix the problem, not anything we could do to help ourselves.


----------



## trackie999

Please refresh our memory. What size & model HD are you using?

If your GC completes in 2 days, you could set up a firewall to block your Tivo from accessing 204.176.49.2 for guide downloads and see if that still works...



WO312 said:


> O.K., so I now have my GC update with the internet disconnected. Previous one was Thur. about noon, now Sat. at 5:15 PM, so a little more than 48 hours. I will force a connection and disconnect again.


----------



## WO312

trackie999 said:


> Please refresh our memory. What size & model HD are you using?
> 
> If your GC completes in 2 days, you could set up a firewall to block your Tivo from accessing 204.176.49.2 for guide downloads and see if that still works...


Tivo HD with 2 TB WD, IIRC it is the WDEARS model.

For me, it's easier to just pull the plug until GC updates. Takes me 10 seconds.


----------



## WO312

trackie999 said:


> If nothing, we now know that GC will complete as long as you disconnect network. (ie: daily call interrupts GC)
> We are learning something new every week, so we may find a self help option. (Have you tested 2GB swap? It works for Ravingfans)
> 
> ... I do have a socketed TivoHD and getting ready to socket another one Monday


Is there a way to change my swap to 2GB w/o losing recordings? No way I can lose my recordings.


----------



## lrhorer

trackie999 said:


> Do you think routerplus would provide any insight?


It's worth a shot.


----------



## lrhorer

trackie999 said:


> Process ID changes every time so these processes must be dying for some reason. Any idea what s=0x30001 represents?
> Edit: I found ackSyncId string in tivoapp @ 01EA9E20 and MakeDeltas @ 01EA9D90
> lrhorer: would you attempt to ID purpose?


I'm probably the wrong guy to ask. I've always been more of a hardware person than a software guru. I've done a little programming, of course, but I've never been a professional software engineer, and I don't have a cross compiler or a debugger for the mips platform.


----------



## lrhorer

WO312 said:


> So how are you looking at all this data?


Probably via telnet. One can also shut down the TiVo, remove the hard drive, and extract the information in an external PC.



WO312 said:


> I remember from my Series 1 days that it was easy to get into the Tivo, then they made it much harder with Series 2, but then people figured out how to do it.


It has continued to get more difficult. The S4 has not yet been hacked.



WO312 said:


> I haven't followed those threads in the Underground for ages. So I'm guessing it's still possible to get inside the Tivo HD without a modded prom.


Nope. A modified PROM is essential.



WO312 said:


> And most important, is there a practical value here, other than watching what's going on?? It looks like ravingfan was able to use fakecall.tcl to fix his guided setup problem, so that's certainly practical. Anything else? I am assuming that anything you find with GC would just point Tivo and/or TWC in a direction to fix the problem, not anything we could do to help ourselves.


One never knows. Even being able to point TiVo in the right direction would be a tremendous step.


----------



## lrhorer

WO312 said:


> Tivo HD with 2 TB WD, IIRC it is the WDEARS model.
> 
> For me, it's easier to just pull the plug until GC updates. Takes me 10 seconds.


Yeah, but you have to do it. If you have an old machine (an ancient 386 will do), you could load Linux on it in a matter of minutes, and run a pair of cron jobs that disables IP forwarding every 10 days or so and then enables it 5 days later. Point your Tivo to the Linux machine as the default gateway, and presto! Your internet connection to the TiVo will be shut down every ten days and then turned back on five days later with no input from you.


----------



## lrhorer

WO312 said:


> Is there a way to change my swap to 2GB w/o losing recordings? No way I can lose my recordings.


Yeah, there are a couple of ways. It's easiest if you have a larger hard drive than the one in your TiVo. I know there is an option in MFS_Tools that allows increasing the swap size, but I don't know if it will allow a 2G swap. If so, then that's probably the easiest way. If not, then using tivopart, dd, and pfdisk, one can clone the existing drive while increasing the size of the swap partition.


----------



## WO312

Thanks, irhorer, for all your responses. While I am extremely competent with Windows, I just don't know much about linux. In the old days I upgraded my Tivo's with the linux tools, but nowadays I find winmfs and jfms so much easier.

At this point, I'm just going to stick with unplugging manually. The only issue comes up when I go away for vacations, and I can just disconnect the tuning adapter for that. I also have a TWC DVR as part of my package, so I already have the SDV channels set up to record there as backup for when the tuning adapter doesn't tune on my Tivo. My only recent surprise was when I discovered that TWC had a regular digital channel on SDV. I thought they only did that for the HD channels. I need to see if I can get a list of the SDV channels here.

Edit: or, I may just decide to do the channel fix on a regular basis. Same results, but I can do it on my schedule. The only downside is I have to baby sit it a little to click a few times.


----------



## trackie999

I have one of my TivoHds on a timer. It cuts the power between 4:00-4:01AM This Tivo will usually go 3-4 months before it ends up with S03, so I have plenty of time to do a channel fix on my own terms.



WO312 said:


> Thanks, irhorer, for all your responses. While I am extremely competent with Windows, I just don't know much about linux. In the old days I upgraded my Tivo's with the linux tools, but nowadays I find winmfs and jfms so much easier.
> 
> At this point, I'm just going to stick with unplugging manually. The only issue comes up when I go away for vacations, and I can just disconnect the tuning adapter for that. I also have a TWC DVR as part of my package, so I already have the SDV channels set up to record there as backup for when the tuning adapter doesn't tune on my Tivo. My only recent surprise was when I discovered that TWC had a regular digital channel on SDV. I thought they only did that for the HD channels. I need to see if I can get a list of the SDV channels here.
> 
> Edit: or, I may just decide to do the channel fix on a regular basis. Same results, but I can do it on my schedule. The only downside is I have to baby sit it a little to click a few times.


----------



## lrhorer

WO312 said:


> Thanks, irhorer


That's LRhorer, not IRhorer, if you please.



WO312 said:


> While I am extremely competent with Windows


A rather dubious distinction, since the operations of which I speak are trivial under Linux and all but impossible under Windows.



WO312 said:


> I just don't know much about linux.


IMO, something you would do well to rectify for many reasons apart from a desire to fix your TiVo.



WO312 said:


> In the old days I upgraded my Tivo's with the linux tools, but nowadays I find winmfs and jfms so much easier.


How is it "easier", when they won't do what you want, at all?



WO312 said:


> At this point, I'm just going to stick with unplugging manually.


That's a little different issue. Hand managing a TiVo partition takes a little understanding of the hardware, not to mention being a tedious and error-prone process. I had to fix numerous errors (made by me) when rebuilding the partitions on my three TiVos by hand. They were easy to fix, but it was a bit annoying nonetheless.

Creating a Linux router is trivial, OTOH, and requires very little time and almost no understanding on the part of the user. Perhaps I should qualify that a bit. It takes very little of the *user's* time. It does take a while to load Linux (although a basic installation takes less time than loading Windows), but most of that time is not required of the user. The installer just asks a few simple questions. The rest of the time is all automated.



WO312 said:


> The only issue comes up when I go away for vacations, and I can just disconnect the tuning adapter for that.


Or you could let the router take care of it for you. Again, it's a trivial pair of two line scripts and a simple edit to /etc/crontab to circumvent the issue.



WO312 said:


> My only recent surprise was when I discovered that TWC had a regular digital channel on SDV. I thought they only did that for the HD channels.


I would be very surprised if this were the case. First of all, SD channels take up very little bandwidth. With industry norm rate shaping, there are 12 SD streams in a single QAM dedicated to SD material. After dicounting the more popular channels, that's probably nearly enough to deliver almost all the SD channels on your system. Add to that the fact industry norm rate shaping puts two HD channels and one SD channel per QAM, and I seriously doubt there is only 1 SDV SD channel.


----------



## lrhorer

trackie999 said:


> I have one of my TivoHds on a timer. It cuts the power between 4:00-4:01AM This Tivo will usually go 3-4 months before it ends up with S03, so I have plenty of time to do a channel fix on my own terms.


Gak!! I would never shut down a system that often:



Code:


TiVo_HD:/# uptime
 00:05:38 up 47 days, 7 min, load average: 3.76, 3.57, 3.41


----------



## WO312

Well, excuuuse me, LRhorer. If you want that to be perfectly clear, I would suggest you have a name of Lrhorer or LRhorer instead of lrhorer.

I'm not going to bother to reply to the rest of your post, but thanks anyway.

Have a good evening, LRhorer.

Although I do have to add, just what the hell does unplugging my Tivo from the internet have to do with hand managing Tivo partitions??? Do you even know what I'm talking about??

Please don't answer those questions.


----------



## WO312

trackie999 said:


> I have one of my TivoHds on a timer. It cuts the power between 4:00-4:01AM This Tivo will usually go 3-4 months before it ends up with S03, so I have plenty of time to do a channel fix on my own terms.


Interesting. So doing a hard reboot daily keeps the S03 away? What does it do for GC??


----------



## lrhorer

WO312 said:


> Although I do have to add, just what the hell does unplugging my Tivo from the internet have to do with hand managing Tivo partitions???


You are the one who asked if the swap space could be increased to 2GB without losing programs. It has nothing to do with internet access, but it was suggested it might be a way to clear the issue being discussed.



WO312 said:


> Do you even know what I'm talking about??


What in my responses suggests I do not? In one post, you asked if the swap space could be increased without losing videos, which reportedly may eliminate the issue. In the very next post you said you could unplug the internet connection manually, which evidently temporarily circumvents the issue. Either or both can be readily and easily addressed on a box running Linux. The former requires some small understanding of the Apple partitioning scheme and a couple of third party utilities, plus some small amount of tedious work. The latter requires nothing but a pair of tiny, trivial scripts and a simple modification to /etc/crontab. The rest is automatic, and you needn't worry about going on vacation or which channels are SDV.

If third party utilities are able to handle increasing the swap to 2G, then they may be sufficient to permanently alleviate the issue. If not then you are left with choosing one of the four remaining options.



WO312 said:


> Please don't answer those questions.


If you don't want questions answered, then don't ask them. I am here for no other reason than to try to assist with this issue. It is not an issue which affects me in any way, and I am not being compensated for my help, good or bad as it may be. The participants of this thread, including you, may take my advice, or leave it. They are all also welcome to seek additional or more detailed help as they deem necessary, or not, and once again this includes you.


----------



## pninen

My TiVo has now been unplugged from internet for >72 hours, and GC has not updated.  Guess I'll give it another day. ??? 

Here's the big question: Suddenly this process that used to complete in a short time now takes multiple days. What caused this?

I'm thinking it has something to do with tuning adapters, but I can't prove it at the moment. There is some interaction between the tuning adapter and the database. The TA changes the way TiVo gets the channel map, so maybe the tuning adapter management code mishandles some database lock or something like that.

One time I unplugged both the TA and the internet, and the GC happened within a few hours. I haven't tried that again. Anybody else try unplugging the TA?


----------



## pninen

I found another forum with a thread on this exact same subject. 

We are not alone!

Tivocommunity has an automated spam filter which prohibits me from showing you the URL of this other thread.

Go to google, and type in 

"force garbage collection & guide indexing"

and you'll find it immediately.


----------



## WO312

pninen said:


> My TiVo has now been unplugged from internet for >72 hours, and GC has not updated.  Guess I'll give it another day. ???
> 
> Here's the big question: Suddenly this process that used to complete in a short time now takes multiple days. What caused this?
> 
> I'm thinking it has something to do with tuning adapters, but I can't prove it at the moment. There is some interaction between the tuning adapter and the database. The TA changes the way TiVo gets the channel map, so maybe the tuning adapter management code mishandles some database lock or something like that.
> 
> One time I unplugged both the TA and the internet, and the GC happened within a few hours. I haven't tried that again. Anybody else try unplugging the TA?


Yes, I have found that unplugging the TA usually causes a fairly quick GC. Can't remember how long though.

Another way is to do the channel fix. When in the channel lineup screen, press "enter". This causes something similar to guided setup and includes a GC. But it can take a long time for the GC to complete, and it does it during the "preparing to connect" phase of downloading data.


----------



## DougJohnson

I have an original OLED S3 with 1TB and a Motorola TA. On Friday Oct 14th, I started getting the "Program info will run out" message for the first time. I found that the last GC was Oct 5th and the last indexing and cache were about that old, though I don't remember exactly.

Based on comments here, I rebooted, which caused the indexing and cache to be updated, but not the GC. The program info message went away. 

On Saturday, the 15th, I set my router to deny Internet access to the TiVo. The calls for update started failing with "Service not found".

This morning, the 17th, GC had completed. I have just turned Internet access back on and forced an update successfully. 

Thanks,
Doug


----------



## Teeps

DougJohnson said:


> I have an original OLED S3 with 1TB and a Motorola TA. On Friday Oct 14th, I started getting the "Program info will run out" message for the first time. I found that the last GC was Oct 5th and the last indexing and cache were about that old, though I don't remember exactly.


Do you have a Tuning Adapter?
If so; when did it go on line?

Stock HDD or upgraded?

Make a trouble ticket with TiVo.
Point them to this thread.



pninen said:


> I'm thinking it has something to do with tuning adapters, but I can't prove it at the moment. There is some interaction between the tuning adapter and the database. The TA changes the way TiVo gets the channel map, so maybe the tuning adapter management code mishandles some database lock or something like that.


When did the T/A go on line?

Stock HDD or upgraded?

Make a trouble ticket with TiVo.
Point them to this thread.


----------



## sushikitten

This is ridiculous.

My tivo says it hasn't connected since 10/7 and program data runs out today...but there are things in the to do list until 10/20 and I know for sure it connected since 10/7.



Starting a reboot process again for the umpteenth time.


----------



## WO312

sushikitten said:


> This is ridiculous.
> 
> My tivo says it hasn't connected since 10/7 and program data runs out today...but there are things in the to do list until 10/20 and I know for sure it connected since 10/7.
> 
> 
> 
> Starting a reboot process again for the umpteenth time.


I don't think rebooting is going to help anything. For a (relatively) quick fix, do the channel fix.

This is how mine first started back in May or so. If you don't get the GC to update, you will eventually get the S03 error, which is not fun to fix. Or at least was not for me. Maybe there are easier ways to fix now - I'd have to go back and read recent posts to know for sure.


----------



## [NG]Owner

This thread has been a wealth of information, thank you.

I, too, just used the "block Tivo at the router" trick to get GC to update. But it appears now that the 26+ hours between regular Tivo contact to the mothership is not enough time for GC to update on its own. GC last completed on Friday, October 14, at 9AM, and not again since.

Now I know that I can set the router to allow Tivo access to the mothership only three days a week (which would be one way to fix the problem). But that only addresses the symptom, not the cause.

How do you get GC to once again complete within the time between two guide updates? Or is that just not possible?

BTW, only one of my two identical TivoHDs is exhibiting this behavior. Both are used equally often. Baffling.

[NG]Owner


----------



## Teeps

[NG]Owner;8760417 said:


> T
> BTW, only one of my two identical TivoHDs is exhibiting this behavior. Both are used equally often. Baffling.
> [NG]Owner


When did the problem start for you?

Are both TiVos' connected to a Tuning Adapter?


----------



## [NG]Owner

Teeps said:


> When did the problem start for you?
> 
> Are both TiVos' connected to a Tuning Adapter?


I think I may have been one of the first to bring this issue up. Here's my initial post about this from _over two years ago_. Since then, I've been able to take care of the issue by either rebooting the Tivo, or just letting the Tivo "run out" of guide data. At some point after that "run out" date the Tivo resets itself without any reboot. I presume that GC updates itself at that point (I never checked because I never knew to at the time).

TWC. Cisco Tuning Adapters on both since acquisition. Both have shown this issue intermittently over those two years. Now affecting the basement TivoHD. Family Room HD doing fine. Both upgraded twice, first to 500GB then to 1TB. Behavior only started after second upgrade.

[NG]Owner


----------



## ravingfans

I'm curious whether the number of season passes might affect the problem? I noticed that after repartitioning my 2TB/2GB swap drive and adding 100 season passes to fill up the drive for testing purposes, the "loading" time took a very long time --approx 1 hour and started reminding me of the S03 issue. The connection completed successfully for me. My thought is during the loading phase, the TiVo must be trying to resolve all the season passes and wishlist entries against the channel guide it just downloaded, and this might temporarily require a large amount of memory or swap?

Should we take an informal poll of how many season passes we have in our systems? Before the S03 problem on my original drives, I had about 15 give or take.


----------



## [NG]Owner

Basement TivoHD: 22
Family Room TivoHD:19

Neither of these include AutoRecord Wishlists, as I am at work and can only see Season Passes online. I figure each one has at least 3-5 AutoRecording Wishlists to add to those totals.

[NG]Owner


----------



## trackie999

Can you check tuning adapter firmware versions? Who knows maybe they are different... (just being hopeful)



[NG]Owner;8760417 said:


> This thread has been a wealth of information, thank you.
> 
> I, too, just used the "block Tivo at the router" trick to get GC to update. But it appears now that the 26+ hours between regular Tivo contact to the mothership is not enough time for GC to update on its own. GC last completed on Friday, October 14, at 9AM, and not again since.
> 
> Now I know that I can set the router to allow Tivo access to the mothership only three days a week (which would be one way to fix the problem). But that only addresses the symptom, not the cause.
> 
> How do you get GC to once again complete within the time between two guide updates? Or is that just not possible?
> 
> BTW, only one of my two identical TivoHDs is exhibiting this behavior. Both are used equally often. Baffling.
> 
> [NG]Owner


----------



## trackie999

On Monday, I set up tivoHD #2 with a 2.5 GB swap space to see if that makes a difference. So far GC keeps aborting after a few hours with eMfsTooFast exit codes. I will let it bake for a few days to collect some data.


----------



## wtherrell

My last GC was with Channel line up fix on October 15 and my GC date never updates on its own. Monday morning Oct. 17 I was installing new Premiere Elite as a companion to my THD. TWC supplied TA USB cable for the new Cisco 1520 was bad so I unplugged the TA USB from the THD set up and switched it to the Elite. This was around 10:30 AM. I took the bad cable to local TWC office and they swapped it out. Returned and put the new USB cable to the TA THD set-up. This was about 12:30 PM. Next day I was checking System Info on the THD and it showed GC completed 7:52 PM Monday evening Oct. 17. I am pretty sure that unplugging the TA USB connection for that time caused the GC to complete. So I think that instead of running Channel fix for a while I am going to try disconnecting the TA USB to THD connection for a while. I have no idea how long I need to leave it disconnected but I think I will start with 2 hours and work my way down to shorter times to see whether this will be reliable. 

Slow but steady progress.


----------



## WO312

My first internet disconnect resulted in a GC update in 53 hours. I just had my second update, this one took 72 hours.

I agree with wtherrell - I've been thinking of trying the same thing. I'm thinking that leaving the TA disconnected overnight might be sufficient, and convenient for me. And better than waiting days for a GC update.


----------



## pninen

Today I left the tuning adapter unplugged, and this afternoon GC completed.

I've seen this a couple of times now. Two or three days with internet unplugged while TA is plugged in does NOT produce a GC, but unplug the TA and GC completes within a day.

I'm pretty convinced that the TA is the source of all evil.


----------



## tootal2

I hope this problem is fixed in the fall update, if there is a fall update this year.



pninen said:


> Today I left the tuning adapter unplugged, and this afternoon GC completed.
> 
> I've seen this a couple of times now. Two or three days with internet unplugged while TA is plugged in does NOT produce a GC, but unplug the TA and GC completes within a day.
> 
> I'm pretty convinced that the TA is the source of all evil.


----------



## VinceA

I'm at 111 Season Passes right now.


----------



## WO312

tootal2 said:


> I hope this problem is fixed in the fall update, if there is a fall update this year.


I'm not sure we're going to see any more updates. All new efforts are on the Premier family, Series 4.

I hope I'm wrong.


----------



## questors

My experience:
Time Warner Cable
Tuning Adapter 
2 TB HD from Weaknees

I got the warning message, GC date 10/2. I unplugged the internet and GC updated to current date on the second day (10/18).


----------



## Eccles

tootal2 said:


> I hope this problem is fixed in the fall update, if there is a fall update this year.


I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.


----------



## sushikitten

Well, now we have the S03 error. I don't want to do what was suggested earlier, only because I cannot fathom having 400 shows uncategorized in one folder. /shudder

I just chatted with a Tivo rep and got this info:



> *Jay:* Step 1: Unplug Power from the TiVo box and plug it back in
> 
> Step 2: As the TiVo HD restarts, the green LED light on the front bezel DVR will be lit. As soon as it blinks, immediately (within 2 seconds) press and hold down the PAUSE button on the remote.
> 
> Step 3: Within a few moments, the yellow and red LED lights will turn on.(If you are unable to catch the timing, you may also hold the PAUSE button down continuously during the restart until the yellow and red LEDs come on.)
> 
> Step 4: When the yellow and red LEDs come on, release the PAUSE button and then press 57 (the numbers 5 and then 7 on the remote control. (You will have approximately 10 seconds to do this.)
> 
> Step 5: Wait for the box to finish restarting. After the box finishes restarting a green screen with an error message will be on the screen for up to three hours.
> 
> *Me:* Okay, I will try that. What should I see after that happens? If everything works, I mean
> *
> Jay:* It should boot up and when you connect it should succeed. The issue is being caused by corrupt data, this process will try to delete that to allow for the new guide information to install.


I'm keeping my fingers crossed.


----------



## denispelletier

sushikitten said:


> Well, now we have the S03 error. I don't want to do what was suggested earlier, only because I cannot fathom having 400 shows uncategorized in one folder. /shudder
> 
> I just chatted with a Tivo rep and got this info:
> 
> I'm keeping my fingers crossed.


Based on my experience, it won't work.


----------



## pninen

sushikitten said:


> Well, now we have the S03 error. I don't want to do what was suggested earlier, only because I cannot fathom having 400 shows uncategorized in one folder. /shudder
> 
> I just chatted with a Tivo rep and got this info:


What he is telling you to do is run the diagnostic that checks the file system for consistency. This will recover from file system errors. However, in most cases, we believe the problem is not caused by file system errors.

The procedure didn't work for me.

When it didn't work, they told me that meant my disk drive was bad, so I replaced it. Within 5 weeks, the new drive had the same problem. I learned to fix it by unplugging the TA and the internet connection for a few days to let the database garbage-collection process complete.

Give 'em hell!
(and good luck to you)


----------



## trackie999

lrhorer said:


> That's LRhorer, not IRhorer, if you please.
> I would be very surprised if this were the case. First of all, SD channels take up very little bandwidth. With industry norm rate shaping, there are 12 SD streams in a single QAM dedicated to SD material. After dicounting the more popular channels, that's probably nearly enough to deliver almost all the SD channels on your system. Add to that the fact industry norm rate shaping puts two HD channels and one SD channel per QAM, and I seriously doubt there is only 1 SDV SD channel.


I can confirm that several SD channels are on SDV. One example is Boomerang for me... (TWC in Ohio)


----------



## trackie999

lrhorer said:


> Gak!! I would never shut down a system that often:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> TiVo_HD:/# uptime
> 00:05:38 up 47 days, 7 min, load average: 3.76, 3.57, 3.41


You're probably right, I should only reboot it every x days, but my $1.99 timer is only capable to handle 24 hr repeating schedules.

Also, rebooting daily gets rid of my Tivo's split personality where Tivo is recording Show A when in reality it is show B. I posted a couple picture of this behaviour in post #200


----------



## trackie999

I've seen this behavior on 2 separate occasions:

1) Few weeks ago, one of my Tuning Adapters was in 8 blink mode when I got home from work. I called TWC and had them ping TA to make it functional again. Few days later I realized that GC completed earlier that day. This is the Tivo that I have set to reboot at 4AM every day so GC process must have taken less than 14-18 hours to complete that day with TA attached but not functioning.

2) Tivo was garbage collecting for days (network disconnected). I was watching the log on this Tivo. The log had zero dbgc info in it. I was getting bored and decided to swap out USB cable just in case TWC was handing out bad ones. As soon as I disconnected the USB cable I saw a bunch of dbgc rubbish collection lines scroll by (40-50 lines). While I had TA disconnected, dbgc went to ~9% CPU utilization (previously 0%) and also scheduler kicked in using 40-60% CPU and scheduled 500 recordings in 2 hours. (It scheduled 567 recordings in previous 7 days)

I think Tuning Adapter is somehow blocking GC & possibly other processes (scheduling Tivo Suggestions to record).
I started checking inter-process communications with routerplus but the amount of data is overwhelming and will take considerable effort to diagnose. (Anyone have a list of protocol numbers?)



wtherrell said:


> My last GC was with Channel line up fix on October 15 and my GC date never updates on its own. Monday morning Oct. 17 I was installing new Premiere Elite as a companion to my THD. TWC supplied TA USB cable for the new Cisco 1520 was bad so I unplugged the TA USB from the THD set up and switched it to the Elite. This was around 10:30 AM. I took the bad cable to local TWC office and they swapped it out. Returned and put the new USB cable to the TA THD set-up. This was about 12:30 PM. Next day I was checking System Info on the THD and it showed GC completed 7:52 PM Monday evening Oct. 17. I am pretty sure that unplugging the TA USB connection for that time caused the GC to complete. So I think that instead of running Channel fix for a while I am going to try disconnecting the TA USB to THD connection for a while. I have no idea how long I need to leave it disconnected but I think I will start with 2 hours and work my way down to shorter times to see whether this will be reliable.
> 
> Slow but steady progress.


----------



## VinceA

lrhorer said:


> <SNIP>
> 
> Again, there are lots of possibilities. The specific lineup may have something to do with it, or a firmware rev. With that in mind, are any of you running the same version I am:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would tend to suspect coincidence on that venue. Any chance you still have your 1T laying around for testing purposes?


I'm running the same SARA version but my FLASH is STA 1.0.0_1520_BDSG.LR_F.1501

I'm on Cablevision here in Bayonne, NJ


----------



## terryjamison

OK, I've been posting on the other thread. But, it seems to be dead. So, I've moved over here.

To recap:

I have two TiVo HDs, one original and one upgraded to 1 TB. Both have Cisco TAs anc CCs. Only the upgraded TiVo has the guide data and S03 problem.

I have been using the channel fix to force a GC. But, it never performs another GC on its own So, I've been doing the channel fix every 14 days or so.

I just did my last fix yesterday. After the fix, I forced a connection and then unplugged the Internet connection from the TiVo. It's been 24 hours and still no new GC.

I am now going to reconnect the Internet and force another connection, after which I will unplug only the tuning adapter (TA).

_Update 10/20/2011 0811 PST:
The TiVo did a GC on its own within 2 hrs of unplugging the TA. I have re-plugged the TA to get my scheduled recordings. There is another network connection scheduled for later today. I will check to see if the TiVo GCs on its own without pulling the power cord on the TA.
_


----------



## terryjamison

Sushi,

Have you tried the channel fix yet? It will get you up and running, at the very least temporarily, perhaps even permanently.

Navigate thru your TiVo menu as follows:

Settings>Channels>Channel List> ENTER

Do this even though your channel lineup is actually correct. Go thru and follow the on-screen prompts. Basically you are repeating portions of guided setup and re-installing your current lineup. This will purge the guide data and reset things so to speak.

The downside of the above is that it takes a while and it resets your channel lineup. So, you will have to go back and redo your favorite channels if you have done so in the past.

Good Luck

As you have already read in this thread and other thread, DO NOT do guided setup. This will leave you stuck in the dreaded S03 loop, unable to complete the guided setup and worse off.


----------



## trackie999

I tried disconnecting my tuning adapter while checking logs:

TA connected: Tivo is idling away at 0% CPU utilization
TA disconnected: *within 30 seconds dbgc is kicked off.
*
dbgc process 14391 is running at 30% CPU utilization (parent proc 295 is dbgc-mcp):


Code:


Mem: 81520K used, 45960K free, 0K shrd, 6764K buff, 44624K cached
Load average: 5.55 6.03 6.55  (Status: S=sleeping R=running, W=waiting)
  PID USER     STATUS   RSS  PPID %CPU %MEM COMMAND
14391 root     D       7152   295 30.2  5.6 swedishChef

Steps from START to Sweep take *17 minutes*:


Code:


Oct 19 23:54:25 (none) DbGc[14391]: fEnableIndexingM=1 fEnableGcM=1
Oct 19 23:54:44 (none) dbcache[14391]: Creating dbcache in program dbgc-mcp, size = 10
Oct 19 23:54:44 (none) DbGc[14391]: SetState(): eVirgin --> eBefored
Oct 19 23:54:44 (none) DbGc[14391]: SetState(): eBefored --> eMarkingActive
Oct 20 00:10:56 (none) DbGc[14391]: SetState(): eMarkingActive --> eMarkingReactive
Oct 20 00:10:56 (none) DbGc[14391]: SetState(): eMarkingReactive --> eTryingToInstallGcMask
Oct 20 00:10:56 (none) DbGc[14391]: SetState(): eTryingToInstallGcMask --> eInstallingGcMask
Oct 20 00:11:00 (none) DbGc[14391]: SetState(): eInstallingGcMask --> eSweeping

*Edit: GC completed in 11 hrs 18mins with TA disconnected.*

In comparison, it took *173 minutes* for same during last successful dbgc with Tuning adapter attached:


Code:


Oct 12 22:00:03 (none) DbGc[14685]: fEnableIndexingM=1 fEnableGcM=1
Oct 12 22:03:51 (none) dbcache[14685]: Creating dbcache in program dbgc-mcp, size = 10
Oct 12 22:03:52 (none) DbGc[14685]: SetState(): eVirgin --> eBefored
Oct 12 22:03:52 (none) DbGc[14685]: SetState(): eBefored --> eMarkingActive
Oct 13 00:53:48 (none) DbGc[14685]: SetState(): eMarkingActive --> eMarkingReactive
Oct 13 00:53:53 (none) DbGc[14685]: SetState(): eMarkingReactive --> eTryingToInstallGcMask
Oct 13 00:53:53 (none) DbGc[14685]: SetState(): eTryingToInstallGcMask --> eInstallingGcMask
Oct 13 00:53:56 (none) DbGc[14685]: SetState(): eInstallingGcMask --> eSweeping

Tuning Adapter is somehow blocking GC (and other) processes from functioning properly.

... Like last time, scheduler kicked off and scheduling new recordings like there is no tomorrow. Also spit out this gem: 
Oct 20 00:11:25 (none) Scheduler[14583]: Guide dir watch broken


----------



## terryjamison

OK, after forcing a connection and then unplugging the TA, the TiVo did GC on its own. It took only two hours after the download.

I plugged the TA back in so we will get our recordings. 

The next connection is scheduled for tomorrow. I'll check the GC later, that day to see if it happens again.


----------



## sushikitten

Well that was a big failure. I know, I'm not surprised, but I had to try it. Interestingly, even though it says my program data will run out on 10/21, and there were things set to record on 10/19 and 10/20...after the diagnostic and reboot, all 10/19 and 10/20 to do recordings were gone. Ugh.



terryjamison said:


> Sushi,
> 
> Have you tried the channel fix yet? It will get you up and running, at the very least temporarily, perhaps even permanently.
> 
> Navigate thru your TiVo menu as follows:
> 
> Settings>Channels>Channel List> ENTER
> 
> Do this even though your channel lineup is actually correct. Go thru and follow the on-screen prompts. Basically you are repeating portions of guided setup and re-installing your current lineup. This will purge the guide data and reset things so to speak.
> 
> The downside of the above is that it takes a while and it resets your channel lineup. So, you will have to go back and redo your favorite channels if you have done so in the past.
> 
> Good Luck
> 
> As you have already read in this thread and other thread, DO NOT do guided setup. This will leave you stuck in the dreaded S03 loop, unable to complete the guided setup and worse off.


I will try this first thing tomorrow. I think I started it once before but didn't complete it.

If that doesn't work, then I'll try the more drastic step of clearing everything but our recordings. To those that have done that, what happened to your recordings? Someone said initially that all old recordings went into one folder and new folders were started for new recordings. Is this the case for everyone? Does it keep separate folders for each show, or did it dump all old recordings into one single folder?


----------



## sushikitten

Attempting channel fix now. You said it takes awhile so I'm guessing at 1+ hours so far, that's normal? (Yes, I've run it before when setting up a new tivo, but I can't seem to remember it taking this long.) The thing that worries me is that it's been stuck on the "preparing" part of the connection for the longest time and I really don't remember that part. Oh well. Keeping my fingers crossed.


----------



## trackie999

It can take 10+ hours. It is doing garbage collection during preparing to connect phase. Just let it churn...



sushikitten said:


> Attempting channel fix now. You said it takes awhile so I'm guessing at 1+ hours so far, that's normal? (Yes, I've run it before when setting up a new tivo, but I can't seem to remember it taking this long.) The thing that worries me is that it's been stuck on the "preparing" part of the connection for the longest time and I really don't remember that part. Oh well. Keeping my fingers crossed.


----------



## sushikitten

Okay, thanks. I feel better now. 

And I'm off to our backup TiVo to search for stuff that was supposed to record today.


----------



## DougJohnson

trackie999 said:


> I
> Tuning Adapter is somehow blocking GC (and other) processes from functioning properly.


After successfully getting a GC by blocking the TiVo from the Internet for 48 hours, GC didn't occur again for the 72 hours since I re-enabled the Internet.

This morning, I unplugged the TA and got a GC in 3 hours. The next step will be to put the TA power plug on a timer to turn it off for 4 hours in the early morning when I don't normally record anything.

That could be a viable work-around. I'll post again in a week or so.

-- Doug


----------



## sushikitten

Man, this waiting is hard. We're on 7.5 hours now...  It seems like it should get stuck on any other step except Connecting. Of course, I'm afraid it's going to be bricked and then I've lost everything.

I am not a patient person.


----------



## WO312

sushikitten said:


> .......If that doesn't work, then I'll try the more drastic step of clearing everything but our recordings. To those that have done that, what happened to your recordings? Someone said initially that all old recordings went into one folder and new folders were started for new recordings. Is this the case for everyone? Does it keep separate folders for each show, or did it dump all old recordings into one single folder?


With the channel fix going on, you shouldn't have to do this. However, when I did it, there was no problem with the recordings. They stayed in their folders. What was strange for me was that it did not delete all of my season passes. Most, but not all. And when new recordings started, they started a new folder. So for some season passes, I now have 2 identical folders, one with new recordings and one with the old recordings.

Maybe the reason it did not delete those passes is BECAUSE I had a folder existing.


----------



## sushikitten

We're going on 12 hours Preparing. Normal? If our GC date was almost two months old? I'm really getting nervous.

ETA: Yay! Finally loading info!!!!!


----------



## Teeps

sushikitten said:


> We're going on 12 hours Preparing. Normal? If our GC date was almost two months old? I'm really getting nervous.


I know how you feel.

If your TiVo recovers from this event. 
Don't let GC get so long in the tooth; force GC to run by one of the 3 patch methods.

First choice; disconnect TiVo from internet. One to 4 days to get GC update (my experience) This does not interrupt recordings.

Second choice; power down the "evil tuning adapter" (some here say a matter of hours) This can affect SDV reordings.

Third choice; channel fix
Takes a long time and requires interaction to complete.


----------



## sushikitten

Okay, everything seems to be working. GC is today. But the guide data is only for 6 days. Am I remembering correctly that it might take more time for the whole cache to load?


----------



## WO312

sushikitten said:


> Okay, everything seems to be working. GC is today. But the guide data is only for 6 days. Am I remembering correctly that it might take more time for the whole cache to load?


Yes. All will be good by the morning.


----------



## sushikitten

Interesting. Still just 5 days worth. Also worrisome is that I normally have a really full To Do list (lots of daily kid shows and daily stuff like Ellen and Chelsea) but over the next five days it only has like 6 total things set. WHAT?! (I know it's the weekend but still.)

I went in to a few season passes and looked for future episodes and stuff was there and set to record, so maybe just opening the season pass reset it or something?

It's loading another daily update now (89%) so we'll see what happens after that.

/fingers crossed


----------



## wtherrell

wtherrell said:


> My last GC was with Channel line up fix on October 15 and my GC date never updates on its own. Monday morning Oct. 17 I was installing new Premiere Elite as a companion to my THD. TWC supplied TA USB cable for the new Cisco 1520 was bad so I unplugged the TA USB from the THD set up and switched it to the Elite. This was around 10:30 AM. I took the bad cable to local TWC office and they swapped it out. Returned and put the new USB cable to the TA THD set-up. This was about 12:30 PM. Next day I was checking System Info on the THD and it showed GC completed 7:52 PM Monday evening Oct. 17. I am pretty sure that unplugging the TA USB connection for that time caused the GC to complete. So I think that instead of running Channel fix for a while I am going to try disconnecting the TA USB to THD connection for a while. I have no idea how long I need to leave it disconnected but I think I will start with 2 hours and work my way down to shorter times to see whether this will be reliable.
> 
> Slow but steady progress.


This morning, Friday, Oct. 21 the GC was still stuck on Monday, Oct. 17. 
I disconnected the USB cable from the TA, then forced a connection to download TIVO guide data. The guide data successfully concluded at 8:38 AM. While watching a recorded show I would periodically check the system info screen. I just checked and GC completed and updated to current date at 9:18 AM. Only 40 minutes! I guess I will perform this ritual once a week from now on. Hope this means that the S03 error and "running out of guide data" problems are only history. To me it is clear (as many have already said) that it is indeed the TA that is causing the GC to stall. TIVO should be able to get around this in their OS program and issue an update. Hope so. But not holding my breath.


----------



## [NG]Owner

Automation is going to be easier for me to do than fumble around behind my AV gear once a week. I just set my router to give my basement Tivo Mothership access only on M,W,F,Su. Hopefully that will accomplish the same result.

We'll see.

[NG]Owner


----------



## Eccles

terryjamison said:


> The downside of the above is that it takes a while and it resets your channel lineup. So, you will have to go back and redo your favorite channels if you have done so in the past.


I did not encounter that behavior when I did the "channel line-up fix.". I accepted all the defaults and when it was done I found that all my premium, deselected, and favorite channels were exactly as they had been before I started.


----------



## Eccles

sushikitten said:


> Someone said initially that all old recordings went into one folder and new folders were started for new recordings. Is this the case for everyone? Does it keep separate folders for each show, or did it dump all old recordings into one single folder?


It was certainly the case each time I did it. For each recorded show, I wound up with two folders - one contained the old shows and the other contained recordings since the "fix." Of course I also wound up with duplicate recordings, because the TiVo did not recognize the existing recordings as duplicates. It was a minor inconvenience compared with the hassle of having to recreate my entire SP and WL lists. Thank deity for the "channel line-up fix."


----------



## sushikitten

Eccles said:


> I did not encounter that behavior when I did the "channel line-up fix.". I accepted all the defaults and when it was done I found that all my premium, deselected, and favorite channels were exactly as they had been before I started.


I have never selected "Favorite channels" but I do deselect certain ones. Those all stayed as I had them after the channel fix.


----------



## wtherrell

[NG]Owner;8766667 said:


> Automation is going to be easier for me to do than fumble around behind my AV gear once a week. I just set my router to give my basement Tivo Mothership access only on M,W,F,Su. Hopefully that will accomplish the same result.
> 
> We'll see.
> 
> [NG]Owner


Well, I know how to fumble better than I know how to set my router like that. I use a Belkin and I don't know if it supports it or the alternate "tomato" & such firmware that you can customize. Might look into it as weather gets colder and I am inside more.


----------



## trackie999

I did a test over the last 5 days experimenting with a 2.5GB swap partition to see if that allows GC to run any faster. Well, I am sorry to say it does not make a difference...

There were a total of 19 dbgc attempts over the last 5 days and all of them ended with eMfsTooFast exit code. Majority of the attempts aborted within 30 minutes with a few almost making it to an hour and 1 or 2 running for a couple hours.

There is one very interesting thing I noticed. dbgc *always* gives up seconds after the hour or half hour. For example:



Code:


Oct 18 05:00:02 (none) DbGcStats[1486]:   Outcome: eMfsTooFast
Oct 18 06:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[1648]:   Outcome: eMfsTooFast
Oct 18 07:30:03 (none) DbGcStats[1807]:   Outcome: eMfsTooFast
Oct 18 10:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[2256]:   Outcome: eMfsTooFast
Oct 18 13:00:07 (none) DbGcStats[504]:   Outcome: eMfsTooFast
Oct 18 16:30:07 (none) DbGcStats[1306]:   Outcome: eMfsTooFast
Oct 18 18:30:04 (none) DbGcStats[1613]:   Outcome: eMfsTooFast
Oct 18 19:30:07 (none) DbGcStats[1784]:   Outcome: eMfsTooFast
Oct 18 21:00:07 (none) DbGcStats[2012]:   Outcome: eMfsTooFast
Oct 19 03:00:04 (none) DbGcStats[2870]:   Outcome: eMfsTooFast
Oct 19 05:00:08 (none) DbGcStats[3351]:   Outcome: eMfsTooFast
Oct 19 06:30:07 (none) DbGcStats[3527]:   Outcome: eMfsTooFast
Oct 19 08:00:08 (none) DbGcStats[3846]:   Outcome: eMfsTooFast

It is almost as if it is giving up because a new recording is starting. I checked history and there were recordings at these times but also in between these.

For now, disconnecting the Tuning Adapter seems to be the best & fastest way to achieve GC. I can get GC to complete with TA disconnected in 2-12 hrs vs 6 days with TA connected. 
Also, if GC takes 6 days, the very next day Tivo will complain about having only 7 days worth of guide data left.

Also, I confirmed a couple more times that as soon as I disconnect the Tuning Adapter Garbage collection goes into overdrive going from 0% CPU utilization to 30% until GC is complete. Scheduler and other processes also become active and I noticed that I have Tivo suggestions recording again.

Since the CPU is basically idling away when TA is connected, the blocking must happen at MFS level. I am guessing GC & scheduler requests data from MFS and it is not being delivered or being delivered extremely slow starving both of these processes for data to process.


----------



## Teeps

trackie999 said:


> For now, disconnecting the Tuning Adapter seems to be the best & fastest way to achieve GC.


I'm going to agree with the above statement.

I had TiVo disconnected from the internet for 4 days without a GC update. 
This morning I killed the power to the "evil tuning adapter", forced a service connection at 0510hrs. When I came home for lunch 1100hrs. GC was updated.

The down side to taking the "evil tuning adapter" off line (disconnect power) is no channels can be tuned. At least on my TS3.


----------



## WO312

Teeps said:


> I'm going to agree with the above statement.
> 
> I had TiVo disconnected from the internet for 4 days without a GC update.
> This morning I killed the power to the "evil tuning adapter", forced a service connection at 0510hrs. When I came home for lunch 1100hrs. GC was updated.
> 
> The down side to taking the "evil tuning adapter" off line (disconnect power) is no channels can be tuned. At least on my TS3.


Channels should still be able to be tuned. Maybe it depends on how you have it hooked up, and/or how you are disconnecting:

- I do not power off the TA. I just disconnect the usb cable.

- I don't run my cable through the TA. I split the cable, and one goes to the TA, and one goes directly to the Tivo. So no matter what is going on with the TA, I still have cable to my Tivo. I just can't get the SDV channels if the TA is disconnected.

Even if you do run the cable connection through the TA, I think it is just a passthrough. Does that require power to the TA? I don't know the answer to that. But if it does, and that is how you are connected, then that is your problem.


----------



## sushikitten

We still only have about 6 days of cached data. 

Interestingly, our second TiVo (no tuning adapter) was running out of data (hubby forgot he unplugged the bridge while troubleshooting elsewhere) so we finally connected tonight and only got a week's worth of data. What gives? We always used to get 2 weeks at a time. 

I was originally just wondering if this had something to do with the GC/tuning adapter issues, but then the non TA TiVo had the same issue.

Is anyone else having this issue?


----------



## WO312

sushikitten said:


> We still only have about 6 days of cached data.
> 
> Interestingly, our second TiVo (no tuning adapter) was running out of data (hubby forgot he unplugged the bridge while troubleshooting elsewhere) so we finally connected tonight and only got a week's worth of data. What gives? We always used to get 2 weeks at a time.
> 
> I was originally just wondering if this had something to do with the GC/tuning adapter issues, but then the non TA TiVo had the same issue.
> 
> Is anyone else having this issue?


Looking in System Information, if by "cached data" you mean "Guide View Cache", that is normal behavior. Where you should have almost 2 weeks worth of data is "Program Info To". Right now, my guide view cache is to Oct 28, while my program info is to Nov 4.

Your To Do list should run out to almost 2 weeks. If it doesn't, then I don't know what's going on, other than to suggest to do a reboot.


----------



## trackie999

By default, cable goes from wall to TA then from TA to Tivo. With this set up, if you cut power, signal quality drops to nothing and you won't be able to record.

in your set up where you split the cable before TA should eliminate this issue. There is no reason for the TA to be in line with your Tivo. Matter of fact, as long as one of your Tuning Adapters tuned to an SDV channel, all your Tivos will be able to receive that channel, regardless if they have a TA or not...



WO312 said:


> Channels should still be able to be tuned. Maybe it depends on how you have it hooked up, and/or how you are disconnecting:
> 
> - I do not power off the TA. I just disconnect the usb cable.
> 
> - I don't run my cable through the TA. I split the cable, and one goes to the TA, and one goes directly to the Tivo. So no matter what is going on with the TA, I still have cable to my Tivo. I just can't get the SDV channels if the TA is disconnected.
> 
> Even if you do run the cable connection through the TA, I think it is just a passthrough. Does that require power to the TA? I don't know the answer to that. But if it does, and that is how you are connected, then that is your problem.


----------



## Teeps

WO312 said:


> Even if you do run the cable connection through the TA, I think it is just a passthrough.


It's not a pass through, at least on the t/a I have. With power off all I get is a black screen and a message(forget what it is right now.)

For me, disconnecting the t/a usb cable is more trouble than the network. And, network disconnection did not work for me this past week.

So I tried the t/a disconnection and it worked and very fast, I might add.

Given my recent timely (experience) updating GC by disconnecting the t/a, along with the possibility of automating the procedure, by putting the t/a on a power cord timer, is intriguing. And, will be far easier that disconnecting and reconnecting cables.

I am also thinking about swapping out the t/a for a different one to see if that has any effect. The TW office is only a mile or so away and is open on Saturday, so it's not a big deal.

Here's an interesting anecdote I want to throw out here:
After installing a 2tb hdd (dvr_dude) Time Warner had a difficult time pairing the cable cards.
Only after removing the t/a did she get the card to pair up. She said the t/a was blocking "her hit" to the cable card...


----------



## WO312

trackie999 said:


> I did a test over the last 5 days experimenting with a 2.5GB swap partition to see if that allows GC to run any faster. Well, I am sorry to say it does not make a difference...


Good to know. I'm not going to think about that option any more, not that I would have been able to do it anyway. 

At this point, I'm agreeing with those who say the best way to fix it right now is to disconnect the TA. I have added a USB extension cable between the TA and the Tivo, and the connection between those 2 cables is up front next to the TA. Now I don't have to reach behind either machine to disconnect the USB cable, and I can do the fix totally on my schedule with minimal hassle.

The only problem for me is when I am away for any extended period, which doesn't happen very often. I guess for those times I will put the TA power on a timer and disconnect the power on a pre-determined schedule.

Edit: the reason I don't want to continually disconnect the power is I just don't like to excessively power on and off electronics. Maybe it does no harm - I don't know. And maybe I shouldn't worry because if it does go bad I can just exchange it. But that's a hassle too.


----------



## WO312

Teeps said:


> It's not a pass through, at least on the t/a I have. With power off all I get is a black screen and a message(forget what it is right now.)
> 
> For me, disconnecting the t/a usb cable is more trouble than the network. And, network disconnection did not work for me this past week.
> 
> So I tried the t/a disconnection and it worked and very fast, I might add.
> 
> Given my recent timely (experience) updating GC by disconnecting the t/a, along with the possibility of automating the procedure, by putting the t/a on a power cord timer, is intriguing. And, will be far easier that disconnecting and reconnecting cables.
> 
> I am also thinking about swapping out the t/a for a different one to see if that has any effect. The TW office is only a mile or so away and is open on Saturday, so it's not a big deal.
> 
> Here's an interesting anecdote I want to throw out here:
> After installing a 2tb hdd (dvr_dude) Time Warner had a difficult time pairing the cable cards.
> Only after removing the t/a did she get the card to pair up. She said the t/a was blocking "her hit" to the cable card...


Interesting thought - swap out the TA. Maybe that is why it is a relatively small problem - only those of us where something went wrong in the TA have this problem. Why don't you be the guinea pig and try it out and let us know if it fixes the problem.


----------



## trackie999

Bypassing the TA during cablecard pairing is a fairly standard thing TWC techs ask for. The TA has a signal booster in it that over powers your signal for recieve thus killing your send levels. This is why cutting power kills your cable signal level to your Tivo.

Split the coax before your TA, that way pairing your cable card is not an issue and killing power to your TA won't kill signal levels...

On top of that you may have hot incoming signal. My incoming coax signal level was so hot that my Tuning adapters had problems sending tune requests up stream. (most channels would tune, but some would not) I eventually had TWC install a 6 Ohm attenuator and all my SDV channels work now.



WO312 said:


> Interesting thought - swap out the TA. Maybe that is why it is a relatively small problem - only those of us where something went wrong in the TA have this problem. Why don't you be the guinea pig and try it out and let us know if it fixes the problem.


----------



## trackie999

Here's a gem for you all:

Just by pressing on/off button on the front of the Tuning Adapter is enough to let dbgc start working. As soon as I turned it off by pressing the button, dbgc kicked in and is now at 30% CPU utilization.

So for pain free GC: 
- Split coax before TA
- Power down TA by pressing on/off button
- Force daily call
- Let it churn

If you need to watch an SDV channel for an hour or 2, it is OK to turn TA back on then turn back off. It doesn't kill GC just makes it slow to a crawl.


* While TA is off, I can still go to Tuning Adapter diagnostics. It reports that it is in ready state...


----------



## sushikitten

WO312 said:


> Looking in System Information, if by "cached data" you mean "Guide View Cache", that is normal behavior. Where you should have almost 2 weeks worth of data is "Program Info To". Right now, my guide view cache is to Oct 28, while my program info is to Nov 4.
> 
> Your To Do list should run out to almost 2 weeks. If it doesn't, then I don't know what's going on, other than to suggest to do a reboot.


Doh! Thanks. My program data says Nov 3.


----------



## Eccles

trackie999 said:


> Matter of fact, as long as one of your Tuning Adapters tuned to an SDV channel, all your Tivos will be able to receive that channel, regardless if they have a TA or not...


I'm not so sure about that. Granted, the channel would be available to the other TiVos, but without their own TA they would have no way of knowing what frequency to find it on.


----------



## WO312

trackie999 said:


> Here's a gem for you all:
> 
> Just by pressing on/off button on the front of the Tuning Adapter is enough to let dbgc start working. As soon as I turned it off by pressing the button, dbgc kicked in and is now at 30% CPU utilization.
> 
> So for pain free GC:
> - Split coax before TA
> - Power down TA by pressing on/off button
> - Force daily call
> - Let it churn
> 
> If you need to watch an SDV channel for an hour or 2, it is OK to turn TA back on then turn back off. It doesn't kill GC just makes it slow to a crawl.
> 
> * While TA is off, I can still go to Tuning Adapter diagnostics. It reports that it is in ready state...


Excellent suggestion. I can get rid of my USB extension cable and just turn off the TA with the button. Then the only issue remains what to do when I am away, and I guess for that I will use a timer to shut it off periodically.


----------



## Teeps

WO312 said:


> Interesting thought - swap out the TA.
> 
> Why don't you be the guinea pig and try it out and let us know if it fixes the problem.


Roger that; but sorry to say, it's not happening today. 
Next week? Stay tuned...


----------



## unitron

trackie999 said:


> Bypassing the TA during cablecard pairing is a fairly standard thing TWC techs ask for. The TA has a signal booster in it that over powers your signal for recieve thus killing your send levels. This is why cutting power kills your cable signal level to your Tivo.
> 
> Split the coax before your TA, that way pairing your cable card is not an issue and killing power to your TA won't kill signal levels...
> 
> On top of that you may have hot incoming signal. My incoming coax signal level was so hot that my Tuning adapters had problems sending tune requests up stream. (most channels would tune, but some would not) I eventually had TWC install a 6 Ohm attenuator and all my SDV channels work now.


Are you sure that wasn't a 6dB attenuator?


----------



## trackie999

sorry, 6dB.



unitron said:


> Are you sure that wasn't a 6dB attenuator?


----------



## pninen

Has anyone had a decent discussion with TiVo about this?

My conversations with them have been a guy reading a script, telling me my hard disk was bad, etc. (I've even replaced the HD once only to discover that the problem started again very soon.) Is there a secret to get past this sort of nonsense?

Looks like until they do something, I'll be unplugging my Tuning Adapter for 24 hours once a week or so.


----------



## Teeps

pninen said:


> Has anyone had a decent discussion with TiVo about this?
> 
> My conversations with them have been a guy reading a script, telling me my hard disk was bad, etc. (I've even replaced the HD once only to discover that the problem started again very soon.) Is there a secret to get past this sort of nonsense?
> 
> Looks like until they do something, I'll be unplugging my Tuning Adapter for 24 hours once a week or so.


Decent discussion yes.
Productive, no.
I even pointed them to this thread. They denied t/a has anything to do with the problem. 
They wanted me to do hdd diag and maybe have to send my box in for repair/exchange (that's not going to happen.)

Yesterday I tried forcing a GC by powering down the t/a by pressing the power button, then forcing a service connection. No joy after 8 hours.

Today I repeated the procedure(above), this time unplugging t/a from the wall. Within 3 hrs GC was up to date.

Additionally: 
During t/a power down via switch; some channels can be tuned.
With t/a powered down via disconnect from power cord; no channels can be tuned.

I wish Verzion would get fios piped in to my hood. I'd say bye-bye Time Warner and sdv.

TIVO help; there was no problem before SDV and tuning adapter.


----------



## wtherrell

WO312 said:


> At this point, I'm agreeing with those who say the best way to fix it right now is to disconnect the TA. I have added a USB extension cable between the TA and the Tivo, and the connection between those 2 cables is up front next to the TA. Now I don't have to reach behind either machine to disconnect the USB cable, and I can do the fix totally on my schedule with minimal hassle.


The extension cable is the best solution for me. About once a week, disconnect the USB, force a program guide call connection. In about 1 hour the GC is complete and USB can be reconnected. Any way to install an On/Off switch in the USB line?


----------



## WO312

Yesterday I did the power button off thing with the TA, but did not force an update, since it had updated by itself just a few hours before. I got a GC within about 3 hours, I don't remember the exact time.

I'm not clear why it is important to force the update. I'm thinking that if I can get a GC update just by the TA button, I'll let the Tivo get program updates on its' own schedule.

The goal here is to get a GC update, like a normal Tivo. With GC updates, the TIvo takes care of itself.

Am I missing something?


----------



## WO312

wtherrell said:


> The extension cable is the best solution for me. About once a week, disconnect the USB, force a program guide call connection. In about 1 hour the GC is complete and USB can be reconnected. Any way to install an On/Off switch in the USB line?


Good question. That would be my preferred way to have it automated - put a timer on the USB cable connection.

For a manual solution, I really like just pushing the power button. Kudos to trackie999.


----------



## DougJohnson

WO312 said:


> I'm not clear why it is important to force the update. I'm thinking that if I can get a GC update just by the TA button, I'll let the Tivo get program updates on its' own schedule.


I don't think we need to force the update. I'm in my fifth day of using an ordinary household 120v timer to power off the tuning adapter for 4 hours in the early morning (3-7 am). I choose that time range because my to do list doesn't have anything during that time.

It is working perfectly. The GC completes within a couple of hours. The schedule updates occur automatically. There seem to be no bad side effects.

I have a OLED S3 with 1TB and a Motorola tuning adapter. The cable is split before the TA so TiVo gets a signal regardless of whether the TA is powered on or not.

While I'm not happy to need this workaround, it seems perfectly useable.

Yes, thanks to trackie999. Your research gave me the hints needed to try this approach.
-- Doug


----------



## wtherrell

DougJohnson said:


> I don't think we need to force the update. I'm in my fifth day of using an ordinary household 120v timer to power off the tuning adapter for 4 hours in the early morning (3-7 am). I choose that time range because my to do list doesn't have anything during that time.
> 
> It is working perfectly. The GC completes within a couple of hours. The schedule updates occur automatically. There seem to be no bad side effects.
> 
> I have a OLED S3 with 1TB and a Motorola tuning adapter. The cable is split before the TA so TiVo gets a signal regardless of whether the TA is powered on or not.
> 
> While I'm not happy to need this workaround, it seems perfectly useable.
> 
> Yes, thanks to trackie999. Your research gave me the hints needed to try this approach.
> -- Doug


For me, forcing the update makes the GC happen much quicker. Several times I tried disconnecting the TA for several hours and no GC occurred. But each time I disconnect and force an update the GC complets within about 1 hour.


----------



## Teeps

wtherrell said:


> For me, forcing the update makes the GC happen much quicker. Several times I tried disconnecting the TA for several hours and no GC occurred. But each time I disconnect and force an update the GC complets within about 1 hour.


Same here.


----------



## wtherrell

The new Tuning Adapter I got for my new Premiere Elite is the same Cisco STA1520 model number as the one on my THD. There are some differences, however. Slightly larger/modified enclosure. During installation the CR on the CC install hotline said that is was one of the newer models and that they could not see the MAC from their head end as they could on the previous one. So there must be some firmware differences even if still model STA 1520. The TIVOs and TAs are sitting together in the shelf. I propose to try the following:
Swap the USB connections between the tuners and THD, Elite, i.e. New TA to old HD and old TA to new Elite. I think I will not have to swap out the Coax connections (right??)
1. If the problem with the THD goes away or changes to the Elite, then we have our answer. 
2. If the problem remains with the THD then swapping TAs does no good but raises a question. 
What is different in the Premiere OS software that it does not have this problem?? I have noticed that on the Premiere Elite that GC always completes a few minutes before the daily guide call. On one occasion the call actually skipped a day but again GC completed a few minutes ahead of the call. Was this because it was waiting for GC completion before making the call? Don't know, but I can't help wondering why the TA does not interfere with the Elite's GC but does interfere with the HD's GC. 

In any case it is clear that TIVO's CS position that the problem is failing HDD is total BS stonewalling. Come on, TIVO! Stop ignoring the problem, acknowledge that it is not due to failing HDD, and fix it!!


----------



## WO312

wtherrell said:


> The new Tuning Adapter I got for my new Premiere Elite is the same Cisco STA1520 model number as the one on my THD. There are some differences, however. Slightly larger/modified enclosure. During installation the CR on the CC install hotline said that is was one of the newer models and that they could not see the MAC from their head end as they could on the previous one. So there must be some firmware differences even if still model STA 1520. The TIVOs and TAs are sitting together in the shelf. I propose to try the following:
> Swap the USB connections between the tuners and THD, Elite, i.e. New TA to old HD and old TA to new Elite. I think I will not have to swap out the Coax connections (right??)
> 1. If the problem with the THD goes away or changes to the Elite, then we have our answer.
> 2. If the problem remains with the THD then swapping TAs does no good but raises a question.
> What is different in the Premiere OS software that it does not have this problem?? I have noticed that on the Premiere Elite that GC always completes a few minutes before the daily guide call. On one occasion the call actually skipped a day but again GC completed a few minutes ahead of the call. Was this because it was waiting for GC completion before making the call? Don't know, but I can't help wondering why the TA does not interfere with the Elite's GC but does interfere with the HD's GC.
> 
> In any case it is clear that TIVO's CS position that the problem is failing HDD is total BS stonewalling. Come on, TIVO! Stop ignoring the problem, acknowledge that it is not due to failing HDD, and fix it!!


That should be a really good experiment. And yes, I don't think you have to switch the coax.

The only thing I don't know is if the TA is married to the Tivo through TWC or whoever you have.


----------



## DougJohnson

wtherrell said:


> T
> 1. If the problem with the THD goes away or changes to the Elite, then we have our answer.


Maybe not. Since I am having the problem with my Motorola TA, it is not solely a firmware issue. -- Doug


----------



## trackie999

WO312 said:


> Yesterday I did the power button off thing with the TA, but did not force an update, since it had updated by itself just a few hours before. I got a GC within about 3 hours, I don't remember the exact time.
> 
> I'm not clear why it is important to force the update. I'm thinking that if I can get a GC update just by the TA button, I'll let the Tivo get program updates on its' own schedule.
> 
> The goal here is to get a GC update, like a normal Tivo. With GC updates, the TIvo takes care of itself.
> 
> Am I missing something?


Let's assume Tivo downloaded Guide Data ~18 hours ago and GC has been running ever since. If you disconnect TA, GC may or may not complete prior to next daily call. If next daily call happens before it's done, GC gets interrupted and will not complete. Instead it will start over and you will wonder what happened.

So just be aware of this and don't be surprised if this happens.


----------



## trackie999

My TivoHD with 1300+ recordings took ~13 hours to do GC with TA turned off. I checked CPU utilization and it was going 30% CPU utilization. GC on the previous day only took 10 hours, not exactly sure why it took longer during 2nd successful attempt.

We should all call Tivo Support on the same day and same time. It should get their attention and it would be pretty hard for them to say they never heard of the issue before 



Teeps said:


> Decent discussion yes.
> Productive, no.
> I even pointed them to this thread. They denied t/a has anything to do with the problem.
> They wanted me to do hdd diag and maybe have to send my box in for repair/exchange (that's not going to happen.)
> 
> Yesterday I tried forcing a GC by powering down the t/a by pressing the power button, then forcing a service connection. No joy after 8 hours.
> 
> Today I repeated the procedure(above), this time unplugging t/a from the wall. Within 3 hrs GC was up to date.
> 
> Additionally:
> During t/a power down via switch; some channels can be tuned.
> With t/a powered down via disconnect from power cord; no channels can be tuned.
> 
> I wish Verzion would get fios piped in to my hood. I'd say bye-bye Time Warner and sdv.
> 
> TIVO help; there was no problem before SDV and tuning adapter.


----------



## trackie999

Doug,

Would you confirm that non-SDV shows continue to record even though tuning adapter screen is displaying. (I am 99% certain that they will record with that screen up)

Also, when you turn on the TV after 7AM, are you greeted with said tuning adapter connected screen or does it go away?



DougJohnson said:


> I don't think we need to force the update. I'm in my fifth day of using an ordinary household 120v timer to power off the tuning adapter for 4 hours in the early morning (3-7 am). I choose that time range because my to do list doesn't have anything during that time.
> 
> It is working perfectly. The GC completes within a couple of hours. The schedule updates occur automatically. There seem to be no bad side effects.
> 
> I have a OLED S3 with 1TB and a Motorola tuning adapter. The cable is split before the TA so TiVo gets a signal regardless of whether the TA is powered on or not.
> 
> While I'm not happy to need this workaround, it seems perfectly useable.
> 
> Yes, thanks to trackie999. Your research gave me the hints needed to try this approach.
> -- Doug


----------



## DougJohnson

trackie999 said:


> Doug,
> 
> Would you confirm that non-SDV shows continue to record even though tuning adapter screen is displaying. (I am 99% certain that they will record with that screen up)


I scheduled a recording for one of the local channels at 5:30 am and it recorded just fine. So, yes. It records with TA disconnected screen showing. Also with the TA connected screen showing.

I have some inconclusive evidence that powering down the TA may interrupt a recording of a non-SDV channel. I have a partial recording of a show that may have been recording at the time the TA was powered off. It was not an SDV channel. Just the one, but I don't often have partial recordings.



trackie999 said:


> Also, when you turn on the TV after 7AM, are you greeted with said tuning adapter connected screen or does it go away?


Yes, I do get the tuning adapter connected screen. That's the only downside I've seen to this approach and it's really minor.

OLED S3 with 1TB and Motorola TA.

-- Doug


----------



## sushikitten

After successfully updating everything, has anyone had any issues with programs not showing up in Season Passes even though they're in the guide data? THis is what's happening to me (I can test because I have two tivos, one with the TA issue and digital channels and one without). 
Both Tivos have current guide data and GC data.

Let's pick The Backyardigans. On the old Tivo, I see this (you see 29 upcoming episodes):










I check the new Tivo (the one with the recent problems) and I see this (not even showing up in a search):










So I check the actual guide data for that channel and see it listed, and when I click on it, I get the full program description:










But I click on view upcoming episodes, I get this (not even the episode that got me to that screen):










So it's not like I can even search for and create a new season pass, because the guide data isn't appearing in searches... And this is happening to A LOT of my shows.

Ideas? Ideas? I am beyond frustrated. (I cross-posted in this forum in case it's a separate issue, though I have to believe the two issues are related.)


----------



## WO312

I have not had that problem.

From the screen that says "Record this episode also", it's obvious that there is a season pass and it knows it. Have you tried to select that, and see what happens?

Personally, I would do a reboot and let it settle down a bit after that. Never hurts to reboot, and sometimes helps.

Maybe someone else has a better answer.


----------



## Teeps

sushikitten said:


> anyone had any issues with programs not showing up in Season Passes even though they're in the guide data?


Yes, it happened to mine. I believe it's a byproduct of doing the channel lineup fix after selecting a different channel lineup.

Select live guide function; find the programming in question. Select it, then make a new season pass.

I know it's a pain; but what can we do???

I'm hoping for a Christmas wind fall, buying a Tivo Elite will by my final solution...


----------



## sushikitten

Teeps said:


> Yes, it happened to mine. I believe it's a byproduct of doing the channel lineup fix after selecting a different channel lineup.
> 
> Select live guide function; find the programming in question. Select it, then make a new season pass.
> 
> I know it's a pain; but what can we do???
> 
> I'm hoping for a Christmas wind fall, buying a Tivo Elite will by my final solution...


That doesn't work for me. I deleted the old SP, went to Live Guide, found an upcoming episode, set the new SP, and it still doesn't show any upcoming recordings (but I can see them in Live Guide).

Interestingly, it's mostly kid networks like Disney and Nick Jr.

How is an Elite different? Does it not require a tuning adapter?


----------



## Teeps

sushikitten said:


> How is an Elite different? Does it not require a tuning adapter?


From what I have read:
different os
2tb drive already installed

4 (four) count them 4 tuners!
can record 4 streams whilst watching recorded show.

yes does require t/a; but I'm hopeful the newer os does not have the problem we are experiencing with our S3s.


----------



## sushikitten

With my luck, I'd have the same issues after spending $800.


----------



## wtherrell

wtherrell said:


> The new Tuning Adapter I got for my new Premiere Elite is the same Cisco STA1520 model number as the one on my THD. There are some differences, however. Slightly larger/modified enclosure. During installation the CR on the CC install hotline said that is was one of the newer models and that they could not see the MAC from their head end as they could on the previous one. So there must be some firmware differences even if still model STA 1520. The TIVOs and TAs are sitting together in the shelf. I propose to try the following:
> Swap the USB connections between the tuners and THD, Elite, i.e. New TA to old HD and old TA to new Elite. I think I will not have to swap out the Coax connections (right??)
> 1. If the problem with the THD goes away or changes to the Elite, then we have our answer.
> 2. If the problem remains with the THD then swapping TAs does no good but raises a question.
> What is different in the Premiere OS software that it does not have this problem?? I have noticed that on the Premiere Elite that GC always completes a few minutes before the daily guide call. On one occasion the call actually skipped a day but again GC completed a few minutes ahead of the call. Was this because it was waiting for GC completion before making the call? Don't know, but I can't help wondering why the TA does not interfere with the Elite's GC but does interfere with the HD's GC.
> 
> In any case it is clear that TIVO's CS position that the problem is failing HDD is total BS stonewalling. Come on, TIVO! Stop ignoring the problem, acknowledge that it is not due to failing HDD, and fix it!!


Sunday afternoon, October 25 I crossed the USB cables as indicated above. Both TIVOs have continued to tune the SDV channels even though their USBs were connected to a different TA than their Coax. I left them completely alone. Both TIVOs ran their service connection calls each day.
Then:
Today, Tuesday October 27, both TIVO's completed GC all on their own. The Elite with the older TA updated GC today at 11:20 AM. The THD with the newer TA updated GC at 4:24 PM. This is the first time in nearly a year that the THD updated GC on it's own!!
I hope I am not jumping the gun here and that this is not just a coincidence. Time will tell but it is now apparent that:
1. The premiere Elite has no problem with either of the Cisco STA1520s. 
2. The THD, which never in recent memory updated GC on its own with the older model TA has now done so on its first try after two days with the newer model 1520. 
I am going to leave them both alone until Sunday October 30 and see what happens. If the good news turns into a trend by then I will try go into the TA diagnostics and report what model, version, etc. Info I can find. I will probably need some guidance on exactly what to look for there. 
This is at least a preliminary indication that the THD GC that did not work with the older incarnation of the TA works with the newer one.


----------



## pninen

Clearly when (for some folks) the tuning adapter is connected, somehow the database garbage collection task is disrupted. We don't know how or why.

My theory is that there is some (unexpected, inappropriate, random, ???) activity on the USB interface between the TA and the TiVo when the TA shouldn't be doing anything. 

I'm in the process of borrowing a USB capture device to stick in between. 

Is the protocol on the tuning adapter's USB cable public? If so, where do I look to find it?


----------



## chrisdfw

I give up! TiVo up on eBay and ordering a new Media Center PC.


----------



## WO312

DougJohnson said:


> I scheduled a recording for one of the local channels at 5:30 am and it recorded just fine. So, yes. It records with TA disconnected screen showing. Also with the TA connected screen showing.
> 
> I have some inconclusive evidence that powering down the TA may interrupt a recording of a non-SDV channel. I have a partial recording of a show that may have been recording at the time the TA was powered off. It was not an SDV channel. Just the one, but I don't often have partial recordings.
> 
> Yes, I do get the tuning adapter connected screen. That's the only downside I've seen to this approach and it's really minor.
> 
> OLED S3 with 1TB and Motorola TA.
> 
> -- Doug


I have conclusive evidence of a recording interruption.

Tonight, both while turning the TA off, and then turning it back on 2 hours later after the GC update, the Tivo stopped recording what it was doing. And both channels reverted to the same station, one of which was the one it was recording.

So while the power button off thing works very well, DO NOT turn it on or off while recording a show. Why does it do that?? And is it related to our problem?

Other than that, the power button fix is working great. I am getting GC updates very quickly, even without doing the forced call.


----------



## WO312

wtherrell said:


> Sunday afternoon, October 25 I crossed the USB cables as indicated above. Both TIVOs have continued to tune the SDV channels even though their USBs were connected to a different TA than their Coax. I left them completely alone. Both TIVOs ran their service connection calls each day.
> Then:
> Today, Tuesday October 27, both TIVO's completed GC all on their own. The Elite with the older TA updated GC today at 11:20 AM. The THD with the newer TA updated GC at 4:24 PM. This is the first time in nearly a year that the THD updated GC on it's own!!
> I hope I am not jumping the gun here and that this is not just a coincidence. Time will tell but it is now apparent that:
> 1. The premiere Elite has no problem with either of the Cisco STA1520s.
> 2. The THD, which never in recent memory updated GC on its own with the older model TA has now done so on its first try after two days with the newer model 1520.
> I am going to leave them both alone until Sunday October 30 and see what happens. If the good news turns into a trend by then I will try go into the TA diagnostics and report what model, version, etc. Info I can find. I will probably need some guidance on exactly what to look for there.
> This is at least a preliminary indication that the THD GC that did not work with the older incarnation of the TA works with the newer one.


Very interesting. I hope Teeps does the TA switch to see if he gets a fix also. If he does, I'll swap my TA out pronto.


----------



## Teeps

chrisdfw said:


> I give up! ordering a new Media Center PC.


Good luck with that...


----------



## WO312

Teeps said:


> Good luck with that...


Agreed. In my setup, I have 3 Tivos, a TWC HD DVR, and a media center PC. It's a tie between TWC and the PC as to which one is the worst. And nobody speaks well of the TWC DVR.

Now I'm using Windows 7 Media Center. Perhaps one of the commercial interfaces is better.


----------



## chrisdfw

I have a one with in the bedroom that has been working well. Since the suggestion bug, the only think keeping me was the recorded program interface. I hate how media center displays them. Then I found this http://www.recordedtvhd.com/. Think XBMC type of menu only for your recorded programs. That and the new system will have 7 tuners and 4TB of storage. I love my TiVo, would still be with my TiVo if they fixed the bugs. No suggestions with Tuning adaptor bug, Program info running out GC failing bug, I hit the too many messages when you schedule online season passes bug too. Just too many issues that have not been fixed. A new Premier Elite with lifetime will cost almost the same as above and has its own bugs.


----------



## Teeps

WO312 said:


> Very interesting. I hope Teeps does the TA switch to see if he gets a fix also. If he does, I'll swap my TA out pronto.


Swapped out the t/a this afternoon. Got another just like it, far as I can determine.

There was a successful GC this morning around 3am (t/a powered down by lamp timer) so I will turn the timer off and see how it goes over the weekend.


----------



## tootal2

I use windows media center to. I only use it to record local shows with a antenna. But with cable card adapter at 300.00. I am thinking about it. If the cable card adapter gets to 200.00 i will buy one.



chrisdfw said:


> I give up! TiVo up on eBay and ordering a new Media Center PC.


----------



## WO312

Interesting TA disconnect behavior:

- If you either power on or power off with the button, the Tivo will stop any recordings, flush both buffers, and both tuners will tune to the same channel. It will NOT resume recording when you power the TA on. That is different behavior than if you do a reboot, at least as far as the recording.

- If you just disconnect the USB cable, the same thing happens, but you also get the TA Connected message when you plug the USB cable back in.

Just thought you'd like to know.


----------



## denispelletier

Now I don't understand what's going on.

I've been having the GC problem for months now, which also got me an S03 error at some point. About ten days ago I again did the channel lineup fix to get GC to run. Well, since then GC runs every day. I did not change anything on the TiVo or with the tuning adapter.

I'm with Time Warner in Cary, NC.


----------



## WO312

denispelletier said:


> Now I don't understand what's going on.
> 
> I've been having the GC problem for months now, which also got me an S03 error at some point. About ten days ago I again did the channel lineup fix to get GC to run. Well, since then GC runs every day. I did not change anything on the TiVo or with the tuning adapter.
> 
> I'm with Time Warner in Cary, NC.


I had my S03 error, as I recall, in July or so. I did a clear and delete everything but programs and my GC did fine for about a month. Then it crapped out again, and continues to do so. I hope your GC continues to work well.

I'm with TWC in Wilmington. Maybe you can send some good TA vibes down I-40. 

I've been doing the power button thing every night for about a week now. Maybe I'll lay off for a few days and see what happens.


----------



## sushikitten

WO312 said:


> I'm with TWC in Wilmington.


/waves from Jacksonville


----------



## Eccles

wtherrell said:


> Any way to install an On/Off switch in the USB line?


You could try running it through a powered USB hub an put a timer on the power supply.


----------



## WO312

sushikitten said:


> /waves from Jacksonville


Then you can send good TA vibes down 17.


----------



## unitron

WO312 said:


> Then you can send good TA vibes down 17.


Just hope they don't hang a left at Holly Ridge or Hampstead and head for Surf City or Topsail instead.


----------



## Teeps

Teeps said:


> Swapped out the t/a this afternoon. Got another just like it, far as I can determine.
> 
> There was a successful GC this morning around 3am (t/a powered down by lamp timer) so I will turn the timer off and see how it goes over the weekend.


There have been no successful GC updates since swapping the t/a on Thursday after noon (1530hrs) 27Oct2011.

So last night (30Oct2011) I turned the (t/a's) lamp timer back on.
This morning there was a successful GC reported beteen 0300hrs & 0400hrs (power restored to t/a @ 0400hrs.)

A t/a is connected message was on the screen. (no recordings scheduled)


----------



## WO312

Teeps said:


> There have been no successful GC updates since swapping the t/a on Thursday after noon (1530hrs) 27Oct2011.
> 
> So last night (30Oct2011) I turned the (t/a's) lamp timer back on.
> This morning there was a successful GC reported beteen 0300hrs & 0400hrs (power restored to t/a @ 0400hrs.)
> 
> A t/a is connected message was on the screen. (no recordings scheduled)


Bummer. So I guess we can rule out a bad TA.


----------



## WO312

unitron said:


> Just hope they don't hang a left at Holly Ridge or Hampstead and head for Surf City or Topsail instead.


With my luck, that's exactly what would happen.


----------



## pninen

I just got a tuning adapter s/w update. 11/2/2011 2:36AM, San Diego Time Warner.

Before


> TiVo s/w 11.Ok-01-2-648
> Tuning Adapter s/w
> PTV OS: Explorer1kg6 NGP OS
> Flash: STA1.0.0_1520_LR_F.1402
> App(s): SARA v1.61.41.a201


After:


> PTV OS: Explorer 1kg6 NGP OS
> Flash: STA1.00_1520_LR_F.1501
> App(s): SARA v1.61.41.a202


Both flash and app changed. Let us pray.


----------



## terryjamison

last week, after unplugging the TA a second time, the TiVo is now GCing on its own. How long it will last, time will tell.


----------



## WO312

terryjamison said:


> last week, after unplugging the TA a second time, the TiVo is now GCing on its own. How long it will last, time will tell.


While just doing the power button works well, it hasn't caused the GC to update by itself. I think I will try a power disconnect a few times and see if I can get the same effect as you


----------



## sushikitten

Well, that was nice the less than two $&@*%# weeks it lasted.

My GC updated for a few days after my whole 2-day zip code/channel line up "fix" and now it's stuck back on 10/25 and my program data is scheduled to run out on 11/11. WTF!? I had a successful connection yesterday with no error messages. 

I need to bookmark the suggested easy fixes so I don't have to read the whole thread again. Do I just unplug the TA and do a service call?


----------



## Teeps

sushikitten said:


> Do I just unplug the TA and do a service call?


I put the t/a on a ($10 Ace Hardware) lamp timer to cut the power starting at 0100hrs then turn power on at 0400hrs. GC updates without a forced service call every other day.

Note: on my setup with the t/a powered down. TiVo cannot tune any channels.


----------



## denispelletier

sushikitten said:


> Well, that was nice the less than two $&@*%# weeks it lasted.
> 
> My GC updated for a few days after my whole 2-day zip code/channel line up "fix" and now it's stuck back on 10/25 and my program data is scheduled to run out on 11/11. WTF!? I had a successful connection yesterday with no error messages.


Similar thing with my TiVo. It started updating GC regularly for about ten days and now it has not done it since Oct 29.


----------



## DougJohnson

Teeps said:


> I put the t/a on a ($10 Ace Hardware) lamp timer to cut the power starting at 0100hrs then turn power on at 0400hrs. GC updates without a forced service call every other day.
> 
> Note: on my setup with the t/a powered down. TiVo cannot tune any channels.


I've been doing this for two weeks now and the GC and guide data updates are all working fine. It will even update guide data with the TA powered off. My timer is set to turn the TA off at 4am and on at 8am. It may be possible to shorten that, but I suspect 3 hours is about the minimum.

The downsides:
1) You get a screen saying the Tuning Adapter has been connected the first time you watch TiVo everyday. Just hit "continue" and move on. The screen doesn't interfere with recording.

2) Any recording you have going on when the TA is turned off is interrupted and does not resume. On my setup, SDV channels will not record with the TA off, but non-SDV channels will. Pick your TA off and on times when there is nothing important on your To Do list.

3) My wife and I would pause a show and go to bed, then resume it the next evening. Now TiVo forgets where it was paused. Now, I have to careful to pause it and return to the "Now Showing" list. Then it will remember.

OLED S3, 1 TB, Motorola TA on Time Warner.

-- Doug


----------



## WO312

Just to add to the above comments:

- Whether or not your Tivo will record with the TA off depends on how you have the incoming coax cable connected. If your cable goes into the TA, then from the TA to the Tivo, the Tivo will NOT record anything with the TA disconnected. If you have your coax split, and one leg goes to the TA, and the other leg goes to the Tivo, then the Tivo WILL record non-SDV channels, but not SDV channels. Be aware - some plain old digital but non-HD channels may be SDV. I have at least 2 that I know of here, which really ticks me off. I can't believe they are saving THAT much bandwidth with a non-HD channel. I could actually live without a TA entirely if it wasn't for that.

- Be aware that when you re-connect the TA, any recordings going on at the time will be stopped, will NOT resume, both buffers are flushed, and both tuners will be on the same channel. This same behavior also happens when you disconnect the TA.

So, it is best to pick about 4 hours when there will be no recording activity either when you disconnect or re-connect. You can record in between time if your coax is set up as described, and the channel is non-SDV.

Gee, isn't it fun to own a Tivo at this point in time ?


----------



## unitron

WO312 said:


> ...
> 
> Gee, isn't it fun to own a Tivo at this point in time ?


The cable companies (otherwise known as Satan's henchmen) sure are trying to make it that way.


----------



## Teeps

unitron said:


> The cable companies (otherwise known as Satan's henchmen) sure are trying to make it that way.


It might help if TiVo would acknowledge that the insertion of a t/a is causing "our" problem with GC and subsequent Guide Data running out.

More people need to make TiVo aware of the problem.


----------



## DougJohnson

Teeps said:


> It might help if TiVo would acknowledge that the insertion of a t/a is causing "our" problem with GC and subsequent Guide Data running out.
> 
> More people need to make TiVo aware of the problem.


I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that the problem only happens to TiVos with unsupported hard drive upgrades. That would make it our problem and not TiVo's. That said, TiVo historically has been fairly tolerant of such upgrades.

My guess is that they are well aware of it and it wouldn't surprise me if a fix appeared in the next update. 
-- Doug


----------



## WO312

DougJohnson said:


> I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that the problem only happens to TiVos with unsupported hard drive upgrades. That would make it our problem and not TiVo's. That said, TiVo historically has been fairly tolerant of such upgrades.
> 
> My guess is that they are well aware of it and it wouldn't surprise me if a fix appeared in the next update.
> -- Doug


I have a vague recollection of being surprised that someone in this thread was having the problem with a standard Tivo HD, but I don't feel like searching.

I'm not convinced there will be any more updates for Series 3 hardware. I hope I'm wrong, but Tivo can hardly keep up with Premiere software development, let alone fix Series 3 problems.

I'm the type of person that would normally be very interested in the new 4-tuner Premiere Elite, but this experience is leaving me very leery of getting one.

Anybody know if Premieres are having this problem?? Not that I would get one if they were problem-free, but it might point to a Tivo software issue.


----------



## tootal2

This problem just started again for me, this is depressing. it has been working fine for months



WO312 said:


> I have a vague recollection of being surprised that someone in this thread was having the problem with a standard Tivo HD, but I don't feel like searching.
> 
> I'm not convinced there will be any more updates for Series 3 hardware. I hope I'm wrong, but Tivo can hardly keep up with Premiere software development, let alone fix Series 3 problems.
> 
> I'm the type of person that would normally be very interested in the new 4-tuner Premiere Elite, but this experience is leaving me very leery of getting one.
> 
> Anybody know if Premieres are having this problem?? Not that I would get one if they were problem-free, but it might point to a Tivo software issue.


----------



## WO312

tootal2 said:


> This problem just started again for me, this is depressing. it has been working fine for months


I hear you. 

After messing around with all the fixes, I'm finally convinced that the best thing to do is to just put it on a 4 hour timer. I finally did it to my Tivo last night before I went to bed. Hard to tell exactly when the power was cut because with mechanical timers you just can't tell, but I set it for approximately 4:30 A.M. and the GC happened at 6:53 A.M.

I'm just going to leave it this way. If the TA fails because of constant power cycling, I'll just return it for a new one.

Tivo, you've exhausted my patience. :down::down::down:


----------



## Teeps

DougJohnson said:


> I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that the problem only happens to TiVos with unsupported hard drive upgrades.
> -- Doug


This problem started happening to my S3, a couple of weeks after Time Warner (Torrance), turned on SDV at the end of June, 2011. Thus forcing the insertion of their Tuning Adapter.

At that time my S3 had the standard 250GB hdd with 1TB extender.


----------



## tootal2

I thinking of buy a cable card adapter for my windows 7 computer and using it as a dvr. windows media center is kind of good. but has no live buffers and uses more power. But i have my computer set to hibernate when its not recording shows



WO312 said:


> I hear you.
> 
> After messing around with all the fixes, I'm finally convinced that the best thing to do is to just put it on a 4 hour timer. I finally did it to my Tivo last night before I went to bed. Hard to tell exactly when the power was cut because with mechanical timers you just can't tell, but I set it for approximately 4:30 A.M. and the GC happened at 6:53 A.M.
> 
> I'm just going to leave it this way. If the TA fails because of constant power cycling, I'll just return it for a new one.
> 
> Tivo, you've exhausted my patience. :down::down::down:


----------



## WO312

tootal2 said:


> I thinking of buy a cable card adapter for my windows 7 computer and using it as a dvr. windows media center is kind of good. but has no live buffers and uses more power. But i have my computer set to hibernate when its not recording shows


That's certainly is an option, but I do have to ask - can you connect a TA to an HTPC?? I have no idea. If you cannot, then there is no advantage - you may as well run the Tivo w/o the TA. If you can connect a TA, then all should be good. I guess it all depends on whether Windows Media Center is programmed to communicate with a TA.

Also, you would want to get an adapter that accepts cable cards. Otherwise, all you will get in HD will be the local network stations. And if that's all you're going to get, then might as well stay with the Tivo.

In my setup, I have a single tuner Series 2, a dual tuner Series 2, a Tivo HD, a TWC HD, and an HTPC. Overkill, I know.  My main machine is the Tivo HD. I use the TWC HD for HD SDV channels because that is more reliable than the Tivo for tuning the SDV channels. The others are just for backup in case something doesn't record, and for obscure shows that conflict with my main recording. By far, my favorite is the Tivo HD. Too bad we have the TA problem.

My HTPC is very reliable on recording local HD network shows, and it automatically pads by a couple of minutes on both sides of the recordings. But boy, the Windows 7 Media Center interface is clunky, so I hardly ever watch shows on the HTPC.


----------



## tootal2

the tuning adaptor does work with windows media center. I think you only need one for all 4 tuners. Dont know if i will buy one yet. I just wish tivo will fix this problem. I do have 5 tb of drive space on my desktop with room for a lot more.

http://cetoncorp.com/products/infinitv-4-usb/



WO312 said:


> That's certainly is an option, but I do have to ask - can you connect a TA to an HTPC?? I have no idea. If you cannot, then there is no advantage - you may as well run the Tivo w/o the TA. If you can connect a TA, then all should be good. I guess it all depends on whether Windows Media Center is programmed to communicate with a TA.
> 
> Also, you would want to get an adapter that accepts cable cards. Otherwise, all you will get in HD will be the local network stations. And if that's all you're going to get, then might as well stay with the Tivo.
> 
> In my setup, I have a single tuner Series 2, a dual tuner Series 2, a Tivo HD, a TWC HD, and an HTPC. Overkill, I know.  My main machine is the Tivo HD. I use the TWC HD for HD SDV channels because that is more reliable than the Tivo for tuning the SDV channels. The others are just for backup in case something doesn't record, and for obscure shows that conflict with my main recording. By far, my favorite is the Tivo HD. Too bad we have the TA problem.
> 
> My HTPC is very reliable on recording local HD network shows, and it automatically pads by a couple of minutes on both sides of the recordings. But boy, the Windows 7 Media Center interface is clunky, so I hardly ever watch shows on the HTPC.


----------



## unitron

Teeps said:


> This problem started happening to my S3, a couple of weeks after Time Warner (Torrance), turned on SDV at the end of June, 2011. Thus forcing the insertion of their Tuning Adapter.
> 
> At that time my S3 had the standard 250GB hdd with 1TB extender.


Did you have cable cards in that S3 and were you getting digital cable prior to the imposition of SDV?


----------



## DougJohnson

Teeps said:


> This problem started happening to my S3, a couple of weeks after Time Warner (Torrance), turned on SDV at the end of June, 2011. Thus forcing the insertion of their Tuning Adapter.
> 
> At that time my S3 had the standard 250GB hdd with 1TB extender.


Sometimes, it is nice to be wrong. This makes our problem TiVo's problem. 
-- Doug


----------



## Teeps

unitron said:


> Did you have cable cards in that S3 and were you getting digital cable prior to the imposition of SDV?


Yes.
The main reason I got the S3 was the fact that it would tune and record "Speed" and "Versus" channels. Which were only offered on digital tier cable.

Also the same cable cards (2) have been in play from the beginning (2007 if I remember.) Never had a problem with running out of guide data until July 2011. Curiously enough, it started about 2 weeks after the Tuning Adapter was installed.

The lamp timer solution, so far has been the easiest way to deal with the problem. For me.

I want to get a premier elite. But, it appears that they have some problems too... So I will wait until, sometime, next year before considering a purchase.


----------



## unitron

Teeps said:


> Yes.
> The main reason I got the S3 was the fact that it would tune and record "Speed" and "Versus" channels. Which were only offered on digital tier cable.
> 
> Also the same cable cards (2) have been in play from the beginning (2007 if I remember.) Never had a problem with running out of guide data until July 2011. Curiously enough, it started about 2 weeks after the Tuning Adapter was installed.
> 
> The lamp timer solution, so far has been the easiest way to deal with the problem. For me.
> 
> I want to get a premier elite. But, it appears that they have some problems too... So I will wait until, sometime, next year before considering a purchase.


Okay, so you got the S3 and subscribed to digital cable and got cable cards in order to get the channels you want.

When they introduced SDV did they take away some of the channels that were previously available as digital channels via the cable cards, or just introduce some new, available via SDV only, channels that you also want?

(I'm currently on TWC analog cable and trying to find out how I'm going to get screwed in the future)


----------



## DougJohnson

unitron said:


> Okay, so you got the S3 and subscribed to digital cable and got cable cards in order to get the channels you want.
> 
> When they introduced SDV did they take away some of the channels that were previously available as digital channels via the cable cards, or just introduce some new, available via SDV only, channels that you also want?
> 
> (I'm currently on TWC analog cable and trying to find out how I'm going to get screwed in the future)


For me, on TWC in Dallas, they did both. They moved a bunch of channels to SDV and added a bunch of new channels. I got the TA in June of '10 and until early October of this year, it just worked. No problems of any kind.

Then I started getting the guide data problem we have been talking about. I'm fairly certain that the TA is just an innocent bystander. I think it's a TiVo software bug triggered by the TA which is just doing its TA thing.

-- Doug


----------



## unitron

DougJohnson said:


> For me, on TWC in Dallas, they did both. They moved a bunch of channels to SDV and added a bunch of new channels. I got the TA in June of '10 and until early October of this year, it just worked. No problems of any kind.
> 
> Then I started getting the guide data problem we have been talking about. I'm fairly certain that the TA is just an innocent bystander. I think it's a TiVo software bug triggered by the TA which is just doing its TA thing.
> 
> -- Doug


What size is your swap partiton? The way it came from the factory or bigger?


----------



## DougJohnson

unitron said:


> What size is your swap partiton? The way it came from the factory or bigger?


Whatever winMFS made when I upgraded to the 1TB drive. Which begs the question: "Why did I go over year without any problems?"

One possibility might be that we were out of town quite a bit through the summer and the drive got closer to full than it ever had.

-- Doug


----------



## unitron

DougJohnson said:


> Whatever winMFS made when I upgraded to the 1TB drive. Which begs the question: "Why did I go over year without any problems?"
> 
> One possibility might be that we were out of town quite a bit through the summer and the drive got closer to full than it ever had.
> 
> -- Doug


So you used WinMFS to copy your original 160GB (HD) or 250GB (original S3) to the 1TB drive and didn't use jmfs at all?

Did you just expand or did you also supersize?


----------



## DougJohnson

unitron said:


> So you used WinMFS to copy your original 160GB (HD) or 250GB (original S3) to the 1TB drive and didn't use jmfs at all?
> 
> Did you just expand or did you also supersize?


I used winMFS to copy my 250GB to (I think) a 500GB. I'm pretty sure I supersized. That drive started going south after a couple of years, so I copied from the 500GB to the 1TB I am currently running. Again, I can't swear to it, but I probably supersized. -- Doug


----------



## WO312

unitron said:


> Okay, so you got the S3 and subscribed to digital cable and got cable cards in order to get the channels you want.
> 
> When they introduced SDV did they take away some of the channels that were previously available as digital channels via the cable cards, or just introduce some new, available via SDV only, channels that you also want?
> 
> (I'm currently on TWC analog cable and trying to find out how I'm going to get screwed in the future)


I might be able to answer some of your questions, since you are semi-coastal Carolina, and I'm coastal Carolina. 

I have TWC Eastern Carolina, which I'm assuming you do too. When they first introduced SDV, it was merely to add HD channels that were not previously available. Over time, they have added more HD channels, but they have also been switching other channels to SDV that you wouldn't expect. Case in point: the Travel Channel. They used to have it on analog cable. Then they switched it to digital only, then they added Travel Channel HD (maybe they did those at the same time, I don't remember). Well, the digital version is SDV, which blew my mind since I can't believe they are saving that much bandwidrth, and which screwed me when I missed some recordings I wanted when I was on a vacation and had disconnected the TA so I would get GC's. Last week I was on the digital (not HD) version of the CW network and a message came on the screen that said if I wanted to keep watching it I needed to hit "Select". So I have to assume that is also SDV. Many if not most of the non-network HD channels are SDV, like USA, SyFy, etc.

They keep adding really obscure channels, many HD, so I have to assume they are greatly expanding the use of SDV. Maybe someday I will call and see if I can get a listing of SDV channels.

So if you go digital, fully expect that you will need a TA, and you will have to put it on a timer.


----------



## unitron

WO312 said:


> I might be able to answer some of your questions, since you are semi-coastal Carolina, and I'm coastal Carolina.
> 
> I have TWC Eastern Carolina, which I'm assuming you do too. When they first introduced SDV, it was merely to add HD channels that were not previously available. Over time, they have added more HD channels, but they have also been switching other channels to SDV that you wouldn't expect. Case in point: the Travel Channel. They used to have it on analog cable. Then they switched it to digital only, then they added Travel Channel HD (maybe they did those at the same time, I don't remember). Well, the digital version is SDV, which blew my mind since I can't believe they are saving that much bandwidrth, and which screwed me when I missed some recordings I wanted when I was on a vacation and had disconnected the TA so I would get GC's. Last week I was on the digital (not HD) version of the CW network and a message came on the screen that said if I wanted to keep watching it I needed to hit "Select". So I have to assume that is also SDV. Many if not most of the non-network HD channels are SDV, like USA, SyFy, etc.
> 
> They keep adding really obscure channels, many HD, so I have to assume they are greatly expanding the use of SDV. Maybe someday I will call and see if I can get a listing of SDV channels.
> 
> So if you go digital, fully expect that you will need a TA, and you will have to put it on a timer.


Plan to avoid digital cable like the plague as long as possible, just like I plan to with HDMI/HDCP.

Just got an HD, but that was mainly to have an over the air tuner in the house for digital over the air, especially during hurricanes.


----------



## WO312

To Unitron:

My history: I upgraded the 160GB to 500 GB using WinMFS and supersize. Then I upgraded to 1 TB, also with WinMFS and supersize. All that time everything working fine.  The first week of April this year, I upgraded to 2TB using jmfs, but did not have to supersize to get the 318 hours of HD. But that is when my GC problem started. It seems like the upgrade to 2 TB triggered it, but since so many others have done the same with no problems, I'm at a loss to explain why I have the problem.

I finally got the S03 error, and I solved it with clear and delete everything but programs. Things ran fine for maybe a month and then the problems started again. I have since been fiddling with all the easier solutions, but last night finally decided to just go with the timer routine.


----------



## unitron

WO312 said:


> To Unitron:
> 
> My history: I upgraded the 160GB to 500 GB using WinMFS and supersize. Then I upgraded to 1 TB, also with WinMFS and supersize. All that time everything working fine. The first week of April this year, I upgraded to 2TB using jmfs, but did not have to supersize to get the 318 hours of HD. But that is when my GC problem started. It seems like the upgrade to 2 TB triggered it, but since so many others have done the same with no problems, I'm at a loss to explain why I have the problem.
> 
> I finally got the S03 error, and I solved it with clear and delete everything but programs. Things ran fine for maybe a month and then the problems started again. I have since been fiddling with all the easier solutions, but last night finally decided to just go with the timer routine.


What size is your swap partition?


----------



## WO312

unitron said:


> What size is your swap partition?


???? Whatever those programs gave me. I don't remember ever taking anything other than the defaults. Maybe I changed it, I just don't remember.


----------



## Teeps

unitron said:


> When they introduced SDV did they take away some of the channels that were previously available as digital channels via the cable cards, or just introduce some new, available via SDV only, channels that you also want?
> 
> (I'm currently on TWC analog cable and trying to find out how I'm going to get screwed in the future)


I know they added Speed and Versus to the "HD" lineup, while retaining them on the original digital numbers. Later added spike, travel, usa, etc...
Then Speed and Versus both went SDV for HD this last June. The digital offerings were still working without SDV, as I used them as backup recordings for both previously mentioned stations.

The only analog channels that are viewed are locals and nickelodeon. Don't know about the rest. 
The Titan TV listing for torrance t/w indicates a full set from ch15 up to ch99. But I know for certain that 49, the weather ch, does not tune on any of my analog tuners.

And again; the problem with running out of guide data started after tuning adapter, with standard size HDD. And continues to happen with 2TB dvr_dude upgrade.


----------



## Teeps

I would like to report that the GC routine runs every other day with the t/a power disconnected (via Ace Hardware lamp timer) between 0100 and 0400 hrs daily.

The last two GC reports are in the 0300 hour range. 

To those that have been snooping at the logs: is the GC time reported on system info the start time of the routine, or the finish time?


----------



## unitron

Teeps said:


> I know they added Speed and Versus to the "HD" lineup, while retaining them on the original digital numbers. Later added spike, travel, usa, etc...
> Then Speed and Versus both went SDV for HD this last June. The digital offerings were still working without SDV, as I used them as backup recordings for both previously mentioned stations.
> 
> The only analog channels that are viewed are locals and nickelodeon. Don't know about the rest.
> The Titan TV listing for torrance t/w indicates a full set from ch15 up to ch99. But I know for certain that 49, the weather ch, does not tune on any of my analog tuners.
> 
> And again; the problem with running out of guide data started after tuning adapter, with standard size HDD. And continues to happen with 2TB dvr_dude upgrade.


You don't happen to know if dvr_dude gave you a bigger than stock swap partition, do you?


----------



## Teeps

unitron said:


> You don't happen to know if dvr_dude gave you a bigger than stock swap partition, do you?


No I do not.
He provides no documentation...

I just sent him an email.


----------



## tootal2

My tivo hd fix itself last night


----------



## DougJohnson

tootal2 said:


> My tivo hd fix itself last night


My S3 OLED did a GC yesterday afternoon with the TA powered on. 
-- Doug


----------



## Eccles

denispelletier said:


> Similar thing with my TiVo. It started updating GC regularly for about ten days and now it has not done it since Oct 29.


Likewise, mine has been humming along for several weeks after doing the lineup fix, but just the other day I started to see the familiar guide data warning, and checking the GC date shows October 29th. Odd that several of us all have problems dating to around Halloween. :spooky:

Actually, I suspect that my troubles may have been precipitated by my dear wife, who recently complained that she didn't have enough cooking and food shows to watch, and proceeded to add about a dozen new SPs. I'm sure that must have both added to the amount of work required during GC and reduced the amount of idle time available.


----------



## WO312

Eccles said:


> Likewise, mine has been humming along for several weeks after doing the lineup fix, but just the other day I started to see the familiar guide data warning, and checking the GC date shows October 29th. Odd that several of us all have problems dating to around Halloween. :spooky:
> 
> Actually, I suspect that my troubles may have been precipitated by my dear wife, who recently complained that she didn't have enough cooking and food shows to watch, and proceeded to add about a dozen new SPs. I'm sure that must have both added to the amount of work required during GC and reduced the amount of idle time available.


Interesting thought. I have a little over 50 SP's. Probably takes a while to go through those.


----------



## Eccles

I cleaned out Recently Deleted and tried blocking my HD's Internet access, but the GC date didn't move. Tried unplugging and reconnecting the TA a couple of tiles; still no-go. Today I unplugged it, triggered a connection, and left it unplugged for about four hours. When I returned, GC had completed about two hours into that window. I have no idea whether it was already running and just happened to complete at that time, or if leaving the TA off was the key, but I'm up and running again.


----------



## WO312

Eccles said:


> I cleaned out Recently Deleted and tried blocking my HD's Internet access, but the GC date didn't move. Tried unplugging and reconnecting the TA a couple of tiles; still no-go. Today I unplugged it, triggered a connection, and left it unplugged for about four hours. When I returned, GC had completed about two hours into that window. I have no idea whether it was already running and just happened to complete at that time, or if leaving the TA off was the key, but I'm up and running again.


Based on our collective experience, I can pretty well guarantee you that it was no coincidence that the GC triggered. The unplugging of the TA caused the GC.

So if you want the GC to update on a regular basis, you may want to consider putting the TA on a timer. If you haven't done so, read posts 333-336 for tips and cautions about using a timer.


----------



## trackie999

System Info screen reports completion date & time.

When GC & index kicks off, Indexing runs first in 30-60 mins, when completed Indexing date & time gets updated. (This should give you a clue that GC has started) After this sweeping/GC is taking place for next x hours.

If you subtract the time between the 2 dates & times, you can figure out how long garbage collection portion takes for your Tivo...



Teeps said:


> I would like to report that the GC routine runs every other day with the t/a power disconnected (via Ace Hardware lamp timer) between 0100 and 0400 hrs daily.
> 
> The last two GC reports are in the 0300 hour range.
> 
> To those that have been snooping at the logs: is the GC time reported on system info the start time of the routine, or the finish time?


----------



## trackie999

I was out of town for about 10 days and left 2 of my Tivos with Tuning Adapters connected but powered off via front panel button.

Based on the logs, vast majority of GC attempts have successfully completed on both units. (There were a couple interrupted by daily calls) 
These 2 Tivos are now also recording suggestions, one has 47 and the other one has 51 suggestions recorded. As I pointed out in previous posts, TA is also blocking the scheduling of suggestions in addition to GC not taking place.


When I checked my 3rd Tivo, its GC date is stuck on October 25th. I just powered TA off via front button about 20 minutes ago and indexing date already updated . I'm gonna wait a couple of hours to see how long before GC date updates...
Edit: 3:30 hours later GC completed... (How much more proof does Tivo need than this?!?!)


*** Correction: There are Index only runs of dbgc that only causes indexing date to change. Theses happen may be every other day. I don't really see a pattern...

I uploaded dbgc results from my log file. If you check, you can see there are index only dbgc runs and index & GC runs...


----------



## WO312

trackie999 said:


> System Info screen reports completion date & time.
> 
> When GC & index kicks off, Indexing runs first in 30-60 mins, when completed Indexing date & time gets updated. (This should give you a clue that GC has started) After this sweeping/GC is taking place for next x hours.
> 
> If you subtract the time between the 2 dates & times, you can figure out how long garbage collection portion takes for your Tivo...


Thanks for that info. I have been noticing that the index is just before the GC. I did have one time, just this last weekend, where that did not happen. In that case there had been an index a couple of hours before the power down and it did not index again, it just went ahead and did the GC. Maybe a GC was in progress at the time and it just continued??


----------



## trackie999

WO312 said:


> Thanks for that info. I have been noticing that the index is just before the GC. I did have one time, just this last weekend, where that did not happen. In that case there had been an index a couple of hours before the power down and it did not index again, it just went ahead and did the GC. Maybe a GC was in progress at the time and it just continued??


I corrected my post to indicate that there are index only runs. Please see 2 posts above


----------



## WO312

trackie999 said:


> I corrected my post to indicate that there are index only runs. Please see 2 posts above


Correct. I have seen many times where there was an index but no GC. But this weekend was the first time I had seen a GC but no index between the power down of the TA and the GC.

In other words, normal sequence is power down, Index, GC. But this one time, it was index, power down, GC. I am just speculating that since the index had been an hour or so before the power down, maybe Tivo did not need to index again. Or maybe there was a GC already happening and it just continued and the power down allowed it to finish.

Just mentioning a curiosity, that's all. Not looking for an explanation.


----------



## trackie999

Are you guys getting this update? I am still stuck on 1402 and am wondering if this is resolving this issue?



pninen said:


> I just got a tuning adapter s/w update. 11/2/2011 2:36AM, San Diego Time Warner.
> 
> Before
> TiVo s/w 11.Ok-01-2-648
> Tuning Adapter s/w
> PTV OS: Explorer1kg6 NGP OS
> Flash: STA1.0.0_1520_LR_F.1402
> App(s): SARA v1.61.41.a201
> 
> After:
> PTV OS: Explorer 1kg6 NGP OS
> Flash: STA1.00_1520_LR_F.1501
> App(s): SARA v1.61.41.a202
> 
> Both flash and app changed. Let us pray.


----------



## sushikitten

I decided to contact tivo chat again, and after explaining everything I've gone through (rebooting, rebooting no longer works, channel line up switch, etc.) his suggestion was the Clear and Delete option. Ugh. So fine, I will try that. I did tell him I'd be back shortly to tell him it didn't work, and even if it did work, that was NOT a solution for the long-term. He basically said I had to try this before they could troubleshoot further.

MY GOD THIS IS FRUSTRATING.


----------



## WO312

sushikitten said:


> I decided to contact tivo chat again, and after explaining everything I've gone through (rebooting, rebooting no longer works, channel line up switch, etc.) his suggestion was the Clear and Delete option. Ugh. So fine, I will try that. I did tell him I'd be back shortly to tell him it didn't work, and even if it did work, that was NOT a solution for the long-term. He basically said I had to try this before they could troubleshoot further.
> 
> MY GOD THIS IS FRUSTRATING.


Personally, I would not do this. I have been down that path and it is frustrating. We have proven techniques that will work that involve powering down the TA for a few hours.

Are you going to do this because you think Tivo is going to help you?? I hate to burst your bubble, but that will not happen here. They are just reading off a script and when you call them back you will get no relief. Others have gone down that path to no avail.

But good luck anyway if you decide to clear and delete.

Edit: I hate to sound pessimistic, but Tivo has beaten it into me. I sincerely hope I am wrong.


----------



## WO312

trackie999 said:


> Are you guys getting this update? I am still stuck on 1402 and am wondering if this is resolving this issue?


I checked about the middle of last week and I have been updated to the new versions. Don't know how long I had them, but since as of last Friday evening I was still not getting GC updates, I put a timer on my TA and that is what I am doing now.


----------



## sushikitten

WO312 said:


> Personally, I would not do this. I have been down that path and it is frustrating. We have proven techniques that will work that involve powering down the TA for a few hours.
> 
> Are you going to do this because you think Tivo is going to help you?? I hate to burst your bubble, but that will not happen here. They are just reading off a script and when you call them back you will get no relief. Others have gone down that path to no avail.
> 
> But good luck anyway if you decide to clear and delete.
> 
> Edit: I hate to sound pessimistic, but Tivo has beaten it into me. I sincerely hope I am wrong.


I haven't done it yet. I tried a reboot just in case it worked and then connected (since we've had it unplugged from the net for 24 hours). I am definitely willing to try the suggestions here, we just haven't gotten to them yet (aside from unplugging the tivo yesterday). I connected and it's loading now, so we'll see.

No, I don't think TiVo is really going to help me, but as has been mentioned earlier in this thread, we all need to contact them about this--so I wanted to let them know this is a repeatable issue for me that a simple reboot doesn't fix.


----------



## unitron

sushikitten said:


> I haven't done it yet. I tried a reboot just in case it worked and then connected (since we've had it unplugged from the net for 24 hours). I am definitely willing to try the suggestions here, we just haven't gotten to them yet (aside from unplugging the tivo yesterday). I connected and it's loading now, so we'll see.
> 
> No, I don't think TiVo is really going to help me, but as has been mentioned earlier in this thread, we all need to contact them about this--so I wanted to let them know this is a repeatable issue for me that a simple reboot doesn't fix.


What size is your hard drive and what size is your swap partition?


----------



## WO312

unitron said:


> What size is your hard drive and what size is your swap partition?


Hardly anybody knows the size of their swap file. 

FYI, if you are thinking that a larger swap file will fix the problem, I don't think it will. Here is what trackie999 had to say in post #271:

"I did a test over the last 5 days experimenting with a 2.5GB swap partition to see if that allows GC to run any faster. Well, I am sorry to say it does not make a difference...

There were a total of 19 dbgc attempts over the last 5 days and all of them ended with eMfsTooFast exit code. Majority of the attempts aborted within 30 minutes with a few almost making it to an hour and 1 or 2 running for a couple hours.

There is one very interesting thing I noticed. dbgc always gives up seconds after the hour or half hour. For example: "


----------



## sushikitten

unitron said:


> What size is your hard drive and what size is your swap partition?


Not sure what size original drive--either 500GB or 1 TB with a 1TB extender. No idea on swap partition.


----------



## unitron

WO312 said:


> Hardly anybody knows the size of their swap file.
> ...


I know the size of mine 'cause I'm driving myself nuts trying to figure out how to increase it *and* use jmfs.


----------



## trackie999

Tivo's default swap size is 128 Mbyte. WinMFS also defaults to 128 Mbytes, although it gives you the option to change it...

I still have 1 Tivo running with a 2.5Gbyte swap and it makes absolutely no difference. I checked memory usage many-many times and I have never seen more than 10 Mbytes of *cached* data in swap.



unitron said:


> I know the size of mine 'cause I'm driving myself nuts trying to figure out how to increase it *and* use jmfs.


----------



## unitron

trackie999 said:


> Tivo's default swap size is 128 Mbyte. WinMFS also defaults to 128 Mbytes, although it gives you the option to change it...
> 
> I still have 1 Tivo running with a 2.5Gbyte swap and it makes absolutely no difference. I checked memory usage many-many times and I have never seen more than 10 Mbytes of *cached* data in swap.


Default swap partition size depends on the model. The HD is, indeed, 128MB.

As I understand it, TiVo uses the swap partition if it gets in trouble and you have to run one of the Kickstarts to straighten things out, and if you've got a larger than stock drive, it might need more swap than stock.

You can copy the stock drive to a larger one with either WinMFS or the MFS Live cd and both offer an option to choose a different swap partition size.

Problem is, even if you also expand, adding 2 more MFS partitions, there always seems to be some left over space at the end of the drive, and that gets written to the Apple Partition Map as an Apple Free partition.

jmfs thinks that is a real partition and adds the one partition it adds _after_ it, which apparently makes the TiVo unable to see it.

The only solution I've been able to think of so far is to get another 160GB drive with a few more LBA than the stock WD drive (maybe a Maxtor would work, they've got an 80GB that's a little bit bigger than the WD 80's), and copy with as big a swap as it'll let you so as to fill the drive and eliminate the Apple Free partition, and then use jmfs to copy that drive to a 1 or 2TB and expand.

I tried copying the original 160GB WD to a 200GB Maxtor I have on hand, setting the swap to about 40GB, just to see if I could get rid of the Apple Free, and I tried doing it with a 1GB swap and expanding, but even adjusting the swap size 1MB at a time, I could never find the magic combination that gave me a drive without an Apple Free partition on the end.


----------



## [NG]Owner

It seems that the block Internet access solution doesn't work for me anymore.

Internet access is shut down for 48 hours at a stretch, and GC will not complete.

So I powered down the TA (via its power button) and will turn it back on once I verify that GC has updated.

Interestingly enough, I have two identical TivoHDs. One has this problem, one does not. Odd.

[NG]Owner


----------



## unitron

[NG]Owner;8798297 said:


> It seems that the block Internet access solution doesn't work for me anymore.
> 
> Internet access is shut down for 48 hours at a stretch, and GC will not complete.
> 
> So I powered down the TA (via its power button) and will turn it back on once I verify that GC has updated.
> 
> Interestingly enough, I have two identical TivoHDs. One has this problem, one does not. Odd.
> 
> [NG]Owner


Are they identical identical? Same brand, model, size hard drive running same version of firmware? Same size partitions on both?

Is the heat sink on the power supply the same color on both? (okay, that shouldn't affect the GC problem, I'm just wondering how many different versions of the HD power supply there are).


----------



## sushikitten

AND THE FUN CONTINUES! 

So I did the reboot, connected back to the internet, and initiated a connection. After 9+ hours it's still stuck on "Loading (Setting Clock)" and the System Information page looks scary, with most info missing and my Account Type listed as C:120311 (which I assume means a month to month account? I've always had lifetime). So I'm rebooting again, have disconnected the TA, and will initiate another connection.


----------



## [NG]Owner

unitron said:


> Are they identical identical? Same brand, model, size hard drive running same version of firmware? Same size partitions on both?
> 
> Is the heat sink on the power supply the same color on both? (okay, that shouldn't affect the GC problem, I'm just wondering how many different versions of the HD power supply there are).


Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and I don't know. Heatsink color? Really? No f-ing clue. Nothing struck me as out of the ordinary 18 months ago when I performed the upgrade. And I'm not about to crack open the boxes to look now! 

The power button on the TA did its job. After about two and a half hours of the TA being off (Internet was available that whole time), GC updated. No more warning messages about guide data running out!

[NG]Owner


----------



## unitron

[NG]Owner;8798780 said:


> Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and I don't know. Heatsink color? Really? No f-ing clue. Nothing struck me as out of the ordinary 18 months ago when I performed the upgrade. And I'm not about to crack open the boxes to look now!
> 
> The power button on the TA did its job. After about two and a half hours of the TA being off (Internet was available that whole time), GC updated. No more warning messages about guide data running out!
> 
> [NG]Owner


Well then, if the drives are the same I guess we can officially list the cause of the problem as gremlins.


----------



## sushikitten

sushikitten said:


> AND THE FUN CONTINUES!
> 
> So I did the reboot, connected back to the internet, and initiated a connection. After 9+ hours it's still stuck on "Loading (Setting Clock)" and the System Information page looks scary, with most info missing and my Account Type listed as C:120311 (which I assume means a month to month account? I've always had lifetime). So I'm rebooting again, have disconnected the TA, and will initiate another connection.


This morning I checked and the connection had been successful, the GC date was current, and everything seemed back to normal in my Settings (showing my Lifetime). Though it still only shows guide data for a week out instead of two. But at this point, I'll take it. Now to get the TA on a timer - does it need to be every day, or could it be every few days (requiring a digital timer that you can set for certain days)?


----------



## unitron

sushikitten said:


> This morning I checked and the connection had been successful, the GC date was current, and everything seemed back to normal in my Settings (showing my Lifetime). Though it still only shows guide data for a week out instead of two. But at this point, I'll take it. Now to get the TA on a timer - does it need to be every day, or could it be every few days (requiring a digital timer that you can set for certain days)?


Congrats on your success!

Maybe this is just TiVo good luck day in the ol' river city. Overnight I stumbled into a solution for using all of a 2TB drive in the S3 HD I just acquired and repaired the power supply on.


----------



## WO312

sushikitten said:


> This morning I checked and the connection had been successful, the GC date was current, and everything seemed back to normal in my Settings (showing my Lifetime). Though it still only shows guide data for a week out instead of two. But at this point, I'll take it. Now to get the TA on a timer - does it need to be every day, or could it be every few days (requiring a digital timer that you can set for certain days)?


The timer can be on any schedule you want. Every few days will work just fine. Once a week will work just fine. The only downside to infrequent program updates is that you will miss any last minute program changes, but I don't think they happen very often anyway.


----------



## WO312

sushikitten said:


> .... Though it still only shows guide data for a week out instead of two. ......


Are you looking at Guide Cache instead of "Program Information to" again?? Overnight I would expect 2 weeks of program information. Guide cache is always just 1 week.


----------



## HomieG

unitron said:


> Overnight I stumbled into a solution for using all of a 2TB drive in the S3 HD I just acquired and repaired the power supply on.


Please tell us more about the 2TB drive solution.


----------



## Teeps

sushikitten said:


> Now to get the TA on a timer - does it need to be every day, or could it be every few days (requiring a digital timer that you can set for certain days)?


10 bucks at Ace Hardware brand. Turns off and on daily. 
A digital would be good, some may say better. But I wouldn't spend the extra bucks at this point.
Mine is set to turn off power at 0100 and back on at 0400, daily.
So far GC updates every other day in the 0300 hour range (today's said 0311.)


----------



## sushikitten

WO312 said:


> Are you looking at Guide Cache instead of "Program Information to" again?? Overnight I would expect 2 weeks of program information. Guide cache is always just 1 week.


LOL

NONE of the dates on any of the screens were anything past 11/15 or so...I SWEAR! Because I looked at everything over and over to make sure I was seeing correctly. But...I just looked again and the Program information date says 11/22 so maybe the guide data just wasn't fully done updating yet when I checked first thing this morning?!



Teeps said:


> 10 bucks at Ace Hardware brand. Turns off and on daily.
> A digital would be good, some may say better. But I wouldn't spend the extra bucks at this point.
> Mine is set to turn off power at 0100 and back on at 0400, daily.
> So far GC updates every other day in the 0300 hour range (today's said 0311.)


I am setting this up immediately! Thanks!


----------



## unitron

HomieG said:


> Please tell us more about the 2TB drive solution.


I hope you haven't already seen my epic saga

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8799076#post8799076

and are just being sarcastic.


----------



## wtherrell

wtherrell said:


> Sunday afternoon, October 25 I crossed the USB cables as indicated above. Both TIVOs have continued to tune the SDV channels even though their USBs were connected to a different TA than their Coax. I left them completely alone. Both TIVOs ran their service connection calls each day.
> Then:
> Today, Tuesday October 27, both TIVO's completed GC all on their own. The Elite with the older TA updated GC today at 11:20 AM. The THD with the newer TA updated GC at 4:24 PM. This is the first time in nearly a year that the THD updated GC on it's own!!
> I hope I am not jumping the gun here and that this is not just a coincidence. Time will tell but it is now apparent that:
> 1. The premiere Elite has no problem with either of the Cisco STA1520s.
> 2. The THD, which never in recent memory updated GC on its own with the older model TA has now done so on its first try after two days with the newer model 1520.
> I am going to leave them both alone until Sunday October 30 and see what happens. If the good news turns into a trend by then I will try go into the TA diagnostics and report what model, version, etc. Info I can find. I will probably need some guidance on exactly what to look for there.
> This is at least a preliminary indication that the THD GC that did not work with the older incarnation of the TA works with the newer one.


Well, the HD updated only once by itself. Unplugged USB forced connection and GC happened in a couple of hours. After that there was again one GC update by itself. Got down to only 8 days left in the guide with no GC, so I put the USB cable back to the original configuration and before plugging back into the TA forced another service connection. Today I had to do it again but GC shows completed at same time as service connection succeeded. Only took about 15 minutes total. I have run USB extender cable around to front and plan to continue that way for a while. 
BTW both TA's show the 1501 firmware update. 
The Elite continues to do both the Service Connection and GC daily. No problem with it so far. I guess the answer to the question posed by this thread is that Tivo will fix the problem on the 12th (of Never!)


----------



## wtherrell

Teeps said:


> I want to get a premier elite. But, it appears that they have some problems too... So I will wait until, sometime, next year before considering a purchase.


So far my Elite does NOT have this problem. GC occurs daily before the service connection. 
I am very happy with the Elite except for the HD UI


----------



## HomieG

unitron said:


> I hope you haven't already seen my epic saga
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8799076#post8799076
> 
> and are just being sarcastic.


Actually I wasn't so all is OK. Hadn't seen that, but am reading now. And sorry for the thread diversion. Back to your regularly scheduled programming...


----------



## trackie999

How about # of recordings, # of season passes? I would not be surprised that the one that is working has less season passes.



[NG]Owner;8798780 said:


> Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and I don't know. Heatsink color? Really? No f-ing clue. Nothing struck me as out of the ordinary 18 months ago when I performed the upgrade. And I'm not about to crack open the boxes to look now!
> 
> The power button on the TA did its job. After about two and a half hours of the TA being off (Internet was available that whole time), GC updated. No more warning messages about guide data running out!
> 
> [NG]Owner


----------



## WO312

wtherrell said:


> Well, the HD updated only once by itself. Unplugged USB forced connection and GC happened in a couple of hours. After that there was again one GC update by itself. Got down to only 8 days left in the guide with no GC, so I put the USB cable back to the original configuration and before plugging back into the TA forced another service connection. Today I had to do it again but GC shows completed at same time as service connection succeeded. Only took about 15 minutes total. I have run USB extender cable around to front and plan to continue that way for a while.
> BTW both TA's show the 1501 firmware update.
> The Elite continues to do both the Service Connection and GC daily. No problem with it so far. I guess the answer to the question posed by this thread is that Tivo will fix the problem on the 12th (of Never!)


The 12th of Never, I couldn't have said it better myself. :up::up::up:


----------



## unitron

Is this a North Carolina problem or a Time-Warner Cable problem or a TWC-NC problem?

'Cause this is kind of a tar heel heavy thread.


----------



## Teeps

Got an answer from dvr_dude today about the swap file.

He says the swap file is set to 300MB, on the 2TB upgrade drive.

Running out of guide data, problem, started on my machine before the HDD upgrade. And, coincidentally a couple weeks after Time Warner,Torrance turned on SDV, Necessitating the use of a their tuning adapter.


----------



## Teeps

wtherrell said:


> So far my Elite does NOT have this problem. GC occurs daily before the service connection.
> I am very happy with the Elite except for the HD UI


The problems I see are different and even more ominous...

I'm just not ready to spend $500 for more problems. I can deal with the current problem for a while longer. Hoping that TiVo will discover and fix it.


----------



## WO312

unitron said:


> Is this a North Carolina problem or a Time-Warner Cable problem or a TWC-NC problem?
> 
> 'Cause this is kind of a tar heel heavy thread.


This is a nation-wide TWC problem. I think I remember one person who had this problem that was not TWC, but it seems to be overwhelmingly TWC.


----------



## unitron

WO312 said:


> This is a nation-wide TWC problem. I think I remember one person who had this problem that was not TWC, but it seems to be overwhelmingly TWC.


Maybe NC is more TiVo appreciative overall (must be from slo-mo'ing ACC basketball), and that's skewing the results.

Nice to see my "blame TWC first" bias re-confirmed, though.:


----------



## chrisdfw

My TiVo is sold and so far happy with Media Center 7 tuners fantastic. But has anyone tried a smaller drive? With a 500 GB drive is was getting GC updates and even a few suggestions.


----------



## WO312

chrisdfw said:


> My TiVo is sold and so far happy with Media Center 7 tuners fantastic. But has anyone tried a smaller drive? With a 500 GB drive is was getting GC updates and even a few suggestions.


Please update us going forward with your experience with Recorded TV HD. Looks interesting. I'm curious how this compares with Tivo. I absolutely hate the interface of Media Center 7, but if your interface has a nice experience, maybe that is something I would consider.


----------



## Teeps

Who here among us, with the guide data running out problem, has their TiVo hard wired to the internet?


----------



## unitron

Teeps said:


> Who here among us, with the guide data running out problem, has their TiVo hard wired to the internet?


In my case it has nothing to do with SDV 'cause we're on analog cable, but apparently the annual Series 1 denial of data has begun, because I've got an S1 with a cache card about 4 feet of CAT5 away from the router that hasn't been able to successfully complete a connection and download since Oct. 31.

The S2s, 2 wired, 2 on wireless G adapters, no problems getting downloads.

The new HD, too soon to tell what its problems are, but I can ping it over wireless.


----------



## DougJohnson

Teeps said:


> Who here among us, with the guide data running out problem, has their TiVo hard wired to the internet?


You mean Cat 5 connected vs. wireless or directly connected vs. through a router/firewall? Mine is Cat 5 connected via a router/firewall. -- Doug


----------



## WO312

Teeps said:


> Who here among us, with the guide data running out problem, has their TiVo hard wired to the internet?


I also am hard wired. At least my Tivo is.


----------



## unitron

WO312 said:


> I also am hard wired. At least my Tivo is.


I'm wired too.

Scored some "throwback" Mountain Dew.


----------



## trackie999

Shielded cat 6 cables from each Tivo -> Netgear GST108T -> cable modem.



Teeps said:


> Who here among us, with the guide data running out problem, has their TiVo hard wired to the internet?


----------



## Eccles

Teeps said:


> Who here among us, with the guide data running out problem, has their TiVo hard wired to the internet?


Well, kinda. As far as the TiVo knows, it's on ethernet, but that physical cable goes to a wireless n bridge to the rest of the network.


----------



## Teeps

DougJohnson said:


> You mean Cat 5 connected vs. wireless or directly connected vs. through a router/firewall? Mine is Cat 5 connected via a router/firewall. -- Doug


Yes, TiVo connected with wires to either a router or cable modem.


----------



## Teeps

The reason I asked the question is dvr_dude suggested that I connect my TiVo-S3 to the internet, via a RJ45 connection to a wireless adapter. Instead of a USB wireless adapter. I'm guessing he was thinking that there was a bottle neck in system's incoming data flow... some how causing "our problem."

So the info above, some hard wired and one hard wired to a wireless router answers my question. 
Eccles has, the RJ45 to wireless setup, and he has the "Guide Data" problem too. 
So much for the idea that the data was not transferring fast enough over the USB connection.
This also would indicate that TiVo's USB connections are not conflicting with each other.


----------



## trackie999

The underlying issue is a deadlock of some sort. When TA is enabled garbage collection/indexing & scheduler come to a halt (running but extremely slowly).

I tried a couple different things to come to this conclusion:
1) I tried to de-prioritize SiHost (TA process is a child of this process) and increase priority on dbgc (select sub-processes I figured out from when TA is not connected) but CPU utilization stayed the same (basically 0% util).

2) Kicked off completely separate dbgc process tree, (thus bypassing Tivo's process tree/scheduling structure). Still no CPU activity, this makes me think dbgc is sitting idle waiting for data to arrive.

I've been looking at routerplus to capture communications between Tivo processes, but I'm afraid I just don't have enough time to reverse engineer it. (I have yet to find any documentation so I'm basically starting from scratch)



Teeps said:


> The reason I asked the question is dvr_dude suggested that I connect my TiVo-S3 to the internet, via a RJ45 connection to a wireless adapter. Instead of a USB wireless adapter. I'm guessing he was thinking that there was a bottle neck in system's incoming data flow... some how causing "our problem."
> 
> So the info above, some hard wired and one hard wired to a wireless router answers my question.
> Eccles has such a setup and he has the "Guide Data" problem too.
> So much for the idea that the data was not transferring fast enough over the USB connection.
> This also would indicate that TiVo's USB connections are not conflicting with each other.


----------



## tootal2

I permanently delete all deleted shows. Unplugged my tivo from the internet. and unplugged the tuning adapter. I hope it fixes the problem.

My tivo is only going to record shows from the antenna anyway for the next 7 hours. since theres nothing on cable to record today. so i might as well unplug the tuning adapteror and see what happens. 

I hope this works


----------



## Bernardski

I am not sure this is related to your problem but you may want to look at 
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=474298


----------



## WO312

Bernardski said:


> I am not sure this is related to your problem but you may want to look at
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=474298


Looks like the same problem. Not sure if you have read the whole thread or not, but we have a simple fix. You just need to disconnect the Tuning Adapter for a few hours for GC to complete. You can do this manually, but it is most convenient to just put it on a timer for about 4 hours a day when nothing is scheduled to be recorded.

I also have a TWC DVR, and I'm much happier with a Tivo HD with this kludge fix than I am with the TWC DVR. YMMV.

But I also am totally frustrated with Tivo at this point.


----------



## VinceA

Teeps said:


> Who here among us, with the guide data running out problem, has their TiVo hard wired to the internet?


Mine is using wired Ethernet. My 'rule' is 'if don't move, it gets wired not wireless'


----------



## Teeps

VinceA said:


> Mine is using wired Ethernet. My 'rule' is 'if don't move, it gets wired


Good rule.

However if you are (still) having the guide data problem, with a wired eithernet connection. That eliminates the TiVo USB system from the equation.

So far the $10 (Ace Hardware) timer set to turn tuning adapter off at 0100hrs and back on a 0400hrs. Proves (for me) to be a reliable solution... the GC date changes every other day in the 0300 hour time frame.


----------



## tootal2

This worked i guess it was unplging the tuning adaptor for 4 hours that fixed it.



tootal2 said:


> I permanently delete all deleted shows. Unplugged my tivo from the internet. and unplugged the tuning adapter. I hope it fixes the problem.
> 
> My tivo is only going to record shows from the antenna anyway for the next 7 hours. since theres nothing on cable to record today. so i might as well unplug the tuning adapteror and see what happens.
> 
> I hope this works


----------



## Teeps

tootal2 said:


> This worked i guess it was unplging the tuning adaptor for 4 hours that fixed it.


Time for a timer....:up:


----------



## unitron

VinceA said:


> Mine is using wired Ethernet. My 'rule' is 'if don't move, it gets wired not wireless'


And the rule that goes with it is, if it don't move, it gets a fixed IP address.


----------



## VinceA

unitron said:


> And the rule that goes with it is, if it don't move, it gets a fixed IP address.


I haven't done that yet but it's a good rule.

I've noticed here that if I reset my TA enough times it eventually gets into a state where things work fine (GC happens daily, suggestions work, etc) but that only seems to happen when I've got a few channels missing. Looks like it's a trade-off. Personally, I'm OK with missing a few channels but not having to keep such a close eye on everything else. I wonder why it works that way but that seems to be the case.


----------



## teiland

unitron said:


> Default swap partition size depends on the model. The HD is, indeed, 128MB.
> 
> As I understand it, TiVo uses the swap partition if it gets in trouble and you have to run one of the Kickstarts to straighten things out, and if you've got a larger than stock drive, it might need more swap than stock.
> 
> You can copy the stock drive to a larger one with either WinMFS or the MFS Live cd and both offer an option to choose a different swap partition size.
> 
> Problem is, even if you also expand, adding 2 more MFS partitions, there always seems to be some left over space at the end of the drive, and that gets written to the Apple Partition Map as an Apple Free partition.
> 
> jmfs thinks that is a real partition and adds the one partition it adds _after_ it, which apparently makes the TiVo unable to see it.
> 
> The only solution I've been able to think of so far is to get another 160GB drive with a few more LBA than the stock WD drive (maybe a Maxtor would work, they've got an 80GB that's a little bit bigger than the WD 80's), and copy with as big a swap as it'll let you so as to fill the drive and eliminate the Apple Free partition, and then use jmfs to copy that drive to a 1 or 2TB and expand.
> 
> I tried copying the original 160GB WD to a 200GB Maxtor I have on hand, setting the swap to about 40GB, just to see if I could get rid of the Apple Free, and I tried doing it with a 1GB swap and expanding, but even adjusting the swap size 1MB at a time, I could never find the magic combination that gave me a drive without an Apple Free partition on the end.


I posted about deleting the apple free partition in the TiVo Upgrade Center post #304 back in October. I think it may help. Expanding my swap space did not help with the S03 error, it came back today.


----------



## unitron

teiland said:


> I posted about deleting the apple free partition in the TiVo Upgrade Center post #304 back in October. I think it may help. And, expanding my swap space did not help with the S03 error. I came back today.


For the benefit of others, here's the link to that post.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8758021#post8758021

It could be that a bigger swap partition doesn't help with the problem that seems to involve an SDV tuning adapter, and needing to power it off at routine intervals, but that there are other circumstances in which it will, and even 1GB of swap is a very small percentage of the overall size of a drive you're likely to use with which to upgrade.


----------



## teiland

unitron said:


> For the benefit of others, here's the link to that post.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8758021#post8758021
> 
> It could be that a bigger swap partition doesn't help with the problem that seems to involve an SDV tuning adapter, and needing to power it off at routine intervals, but that there are other circumstances in which it will, and even 1GB of swap is a very small percentage of the overall size of a drive you're likely to use with which to upgrade.


Sorry, I wasn't real clear and mixed up 2 differnet issues. The post from October tells you how to delete the apple free partition at the end of the drive so you can expand your drive with JMFS.

About the S03 error, I have disconnect my tuning adapter and I hope by morning the GC will have run and my TiVo will be back to normal.


----------



## unitron

teiland said:


> Sorry, I wasn't real clear and mixed up 2 differnet issues. The post from October tells you how to delete the apple free partition at the end of the drive so you can expand your drive with JMFS.
> 
> About the S03 error, I have disconnect my tuning adapter and I hope by morning the GC will have run and my TiVo will be back to normal.


You provided data, swap size doesn't seem to be a factor in this particular problem, which I don't think was established before, and it was something I'd wondered about when I first noticed the postings about the problem.


----------



## Teeps

teiland said:


> About the S03 error, I have disconnect my tuning adapter and I hope by morning the GC will have run and my TiVo will be back to normal.


If that doesn't work. You can try the "channel linup" fix; if that does not work then the "clear and delete season passes and to do list" fix should get rid of S03 error.

See post #72 for channel lineup fix.


----------



## trackie999

I've set up one of my TivoHD's with 2.5GB swap file to see if that helps, but it made no difference. Here's the link to my original post in this thread.



unitron said:


> You provided data, swap size doesn't seem to be a factor in this particular problem, which I don't think was established before, and it was something I'd wondered about when I first noticed the postings about the problem.


----------



## teiland

Teeps said:


> If that doesn't work. You can try the "channel linup" fix; if that does not work then the "clear and delete season passes and to do list" fix should get rid of S03 error.
> 
> See post #72 for channel lineup fix.


Disconnecting the TA overnight didn't get the GC going, it was still stuck in August. I tried the "channel lineup" fix and it hung at preparing for 4 hours. I finally power cycled the TiVo figuring the TiVo was hosed, again. After the reboot, it restarted the "channel lineup" but this time completed within about an hour. GC now has today's date and everything seems normal. Now that GC is caught up, maybe powering down the TA will work in the future.

Many thanks to everyone who helped figured this out. I spent countless hours copying and expanding drives as well as rebuilding season passes and wish lists. Not to mention, the loss of shows and the cost of additional drives and paying dvr_dude to expand drives. I always believed the 2TB expansion was the problem because my 1TB drive never had an issue. Looking back, I think I expanded from 1TB to 2TB about the same time I got the TA.


----------



## WO312

teiland said:


> Disconnecting the TA overnight didn't get the GC going, it was still stuck in August. I tried the "channel lineup" fix and it hung at preparing for 4 hours. I finally power cycled the TiVo figuring the TiVo was hosed, again. After the reboot, it restarted the "channel lineup" but this time completed within about an hour. GC now has today's date and everything seems normal. Now that GC is caught up, maybe powering down the TA will work in the future.
> 
> Many thanks to everyone who helped figured this out. I spent countless hours copying and expanding drives as well as rebuilding season passes and wish lists. Not to mention, the loss of shows and the cost of additional drives and paying dvr_dude to expand drives. I always believed the 2TB expansion was the problem because my 1TB drive never had an issue. Looking back, I think I expanded from 1TB to 2TB about the same time I got the TA.


Doing the channel fix after an S03 has taken up to 12 hours or so. Interesting that a power cycle shortened the time. Or maybe you just got lucky. I don't think I would advise anyone else in the future to try a power cycle in the middle of a channel fix. Glad that it worked for you, though.

I, too, had a 1 TB drive, but definitely on a TA, that worked perfectly. My GC problems started right after I upgraded to 2 TB. At first I thought the upgrade caused it, and even posted it in the upgrade forum, but did not get anyone else to say they also were having a problem. So now I'm thinking that it was just a coincidence. We have one poster here that has 2 Tivo HD's, and one has the problem and one doesn't. So go figure.


----------



## Teeps

teiland said:


> I always believed the 2TB expansion was the problem because my 1TB drive never had an issue. Looking back, I think I expanded from 1TB to 2TB about the same time I got the TA.


If you root through my posts here. I have mentioned several times that my TiVo S3 had the "Guide" problem with oem hdd. The problem started a couple of weeks after tuning adapter installation... (end of June 2011, problem start middle of July 2011.)

Anecdotally, the tuning adapter is (or is part of ) the problem. TiVo persists in denial, TiVo insists that HDD failure is the cause.

If you have not lodged a complaint with TiVo support; please, do so immediately.
You can call, chat or email TiVo support.
I suggest email, because they are not likely to have any useful permanent repair info, to share. That is worth spending real time on the phone or chat.
As, we, here, have tried all of their suggestions without permanent joy.


----------



## Eccles

trackie999 said:


> System Info screen reports completion date & time.
> 
> When GC & index kicks off, Indexing runs first in 30-60 mins, when completed Indexing date & time gets updated. (This should give you a clue that GC has started) After this sweeping/GC is taking place for next x hours.
> 
> If you subtract the time between the 2 dates & times, you can figure out how long garbage collection portion takes for your Tivo...


Indexing: 6:52pm last night
GC: 11:56 pm last night

so GC is taking 5 hours even when it's up-to-date (i.e. it last ran a couple of days ago)? Damn, no wonder it starts to fail if I don't clean up Recently Deleted for a couple of weeks!


----------



## Teeps

Eccles said:


> ? Damn, no wonder it starts to fail if I don't clean up Recently Deleted for a couple of weeks!


Currently there are over 260 shows in my TiVo's recently deleted list.
GC occurs every other day, like clock work, when the t/a power is turned off for about 4 hours daily, between 0100 and 0400 hours.


----------



## trackie999

I have to agree with you, cleaning up recently deleted folder has very little effect on getting GC work.

When GC runs it checks every single DB object (50,000+ objects based on what I see in the logs) Deleting couple hundred shows will not matter that much.

... Then again, it may be just enough for your tivo to finish GC 



Teeps said:


> Currently there are over 260 shows in my TiVo's recently deleted list.
> GC occurs every other day, like clock work, when the t/a power is turned off for about 4 hours daily, between 0100 and 0400 hours.


----------



## tootal2

the problem is back again why wont tivo fix this? when will the fall update come?

Ceton InfiniTV 4 USB for 300.00 is starting to look good. I can buy 2 of thoes and have 8 shared tuners on 2 computers and 5 tbs of drive space. tivo please fix this probelm before i do this.


----------



## [NG]Owner

Shutting down Internet mothership access every other day didn't seem to be enough. So now I shut down mothership access for two days in a row; two days on, two days off, rinse and repeat, and GC updates. No problems for the past few weeks.

[NG]Owner


----------



## DougJohnson

[NG]Owner;8822315 said:


> Shutting down Internet mothership access every other day didn't seem to be enough. So now I shut down mothership access for two days in a row; two days on, two days off, rinse and repeat, and GC updates. No problems for the past few weeks.
> 
> [NG]Owner


Powering down the tuning adapter for 4 hours or so is way more effective. I've been doing automatically with a lamp timer for about a month now. It works very well. -- Doug


----------



## WO312

tootal2 said:


> ....when will the fall update come?


 Already answered in post #400:

"I guess the answer to the question posed by this thread is that Tivo will fix the problem on the 12th (of Never!)"  Sad but true. :down::down::down:

Disclaimer: I fervently hope this is wrong. Tivo, please fix this.



DougJohnson said:


> Powering down the tuning adapter for 4 hours or so is way more effective. I've been doing automatically with a lamp timer for about a month now. It works very well. -- Doug


Agreed. I am liking the timer fix.


----------



## Teeps

WO312 said:


> Agreed. I am liking the timer fix.


:up::up:
Me too.


----------



## Eccles

DougJohnson said:


> Powering down the tuning adapter for 4 hours or so is way more effective. I've been doing automatically with a lamp timer for about a month now. It works very well. -- Doug


That does appear to be the "magic bullet." My GC hadn't updated since 11/16; I disconnected the TA this morning, fired off a manual connection just for good measure, and the GC date updated within a couple of hours. Not sure if triggering the call helps, but it doesn't appear to hurt.


----------



## [NG]Owner

The timer fix is nice, but there are drawbacks ....

1) Anything recording at the time the TA's power is cut gets stopped.
2) Anything recording at the time the TA's power is restored gets stopped.
3) The timer's time needs to be reset if there is a power outage (if not on a UPS).
4) One has to have enough power outlets available to have a timer possibly cover several on a power strip. I don't.

The only drawback to the at the router blocking is the loss of possible updates to guide data over a max 72 hour period. I'll take that minor risk, as opposed to the definitive occurrence of four truncated recordings every day.

Besides, my WRT54G router with Gargoyle firmware already has provisions for time of day access restrictions. It's easy and gets the job done pretty elegantly.

[NG]Owner


----------



## unitron

[NG]Owner;8823331 said:


> ...
> 
> Besides, my WRT54G router with Gargoyle firmware already has provisions for time of day access restrictions. It's easy and gets the job done pretty elegantly.
> 
> [NG]Owner


Okay, now I am confused. I thought these things talked to the head end over the cable (not the CAT6, the RG-6).


----------



## DougJohnson

unitron said:


> Okay, now I am confused. I thought these things talked to the head end over the cable (not the CAT6, the RG-6).


You're right about the tuning adapter. The TiVo, however, uses the internet to get program schedule information from the TiVo servers. Cutting that off for a couple of days also lets GC complete. -- Doug


----------



## unitron

DougJohnson said:


> You're right about the tuning adapter. The TiVo, however, uses the internet to get program schedule information from the TiVo servers. Cutting that off for a couple of days also lets GC complete. -- Doug


So the TiVo's like a little kid.

The only way to get it to do what it's supposed to is to remove all other distractions.


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## pninen

DougJohnson said:


> You're right about the tuning adapter. The TiVo, however, uses the internet to get program schedule information from the TiVo servers. Cutting that off for a couple of days also lets GC complete. -- Doug


Yes and no. On SOME TiVos, disconnecting the internet for 2 days will do the trick. GC happens, and the thing works again. However, on my TiVo, this trick hasn't worked for several months now. I have to disconnect the tuning adapter to make GC happen.

I've been doing it weekly.


----------



## WO312

unitron said:


> Okay, now I am confused. I thought these things talked to the head end over the cable (not the CAT6, the RG-6).


Yes, the TA does. He is using a different technique. Refer to post #444. He is getting GC updates by disconnecting the internet for 2 days at a time.

Edit: oops, sorry for the smeek. I did not notice a new page with posts that already answered this.


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## Teeps

pninen said:


> Yes and no. On SOME TiVos, disconnecting the internet for 2 days will do the trick. GC happens, and the thing works again. However, on my TiVo, this trick hasn't worked for several months now.
> I've been doing it weekly.


Roger that, as my TiVo was responding to internet disconnection for a couple of months, then stopped.

Depriving the tuning adapter of power daily always works.... so far.


----------



## trackie999

Details on the 2 approaches being discussed:

*Blocking/Disconnecting the internet*: 
Garbage collection can run for more than 24 hours because it doesn't get killed by daily call. (If connectivity is available during daily call dbgc is told to stop (and fail) so daily call can proceed)

Cons:
- Garbage collection is still running extremely slow, just has more time to complete
- In my case this approach needed 5+ days to complete
- I never saw suggestions getting scheduled with this method (too slow to get to that part)
- Missing last minute guide updates
Pro:
- You don't get interrupted recordings like second alternative

*Powering down Tuning Adapter*:
For this to work, you have to split coax cable with a splitter and feed coax directly to both Tuning Adapter and Tivo (There is no need to connect Output of Tuning adapter to Tivo's cable input)
Use an outlet timer to cut power to Tuning adapter. I have mine set to cut power between 12:02 AM until 4:56AM

Cons:
- You are greeted with Blue Tuning Adapter connected screen every morning when you turn on your TV
- Any recording taking place at the time you cut power to TA will get interrupted (this is probably 90% true, I think analog cable still records)
- Any recording taking place when Tuning Adapter finishes booting up and Tivo connects to it will get stopped.
- If you use timer without battery back up you can have issues during a power outage (timer goes on/off at wrong time)

Pros:
- Garbage collection will complete almost daily (I have about 80-90% success rate, turning off TA for an extra hour would probably fix this)
- Suggestions started scheduling again
- You get daily guide updates

I have 2 of my 3 Tivos set up with timers and as I mentioned I get a GC update almost daily. I am not very worried about interrupted recordings, everything on at that time is usually a repeat. I can live with this until Tivo fixes this issue (remember next update is on 12th of never)


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## mdbundy

Teeps said:


> Who here among us, with the guide data running out problem, has their TiVo hard wired to the internet?


I realize I'm coming to this party late, but I've had this problem for two years or more. I had assumed it was caused by my upgraded HDD (and warned my parents that they might have to deal with this before they upgraded the HDD in their TivoHD) but come to think of it, they don't have a TA and have never had the problem, and I venture to say that my problems started with TWC Cleveland switched to SDV and gave me my TA.

Also interestingly, the last time my TivoHD did a GC was on 10/31; I remember that night for obvious reasons, and I ended up being on the phone with TWC because of TA issues, which was offline for several hours that evening (by several I mean > 24).

I've never called Tivo for support because I assumed I was unsupportable due to the HDD upgrade.

To your question -- my TivoHD has hard-wired Ethernet.

I'm jumping into this thread now because the problem appears to be escalating for me; i.e., I've always managed with just weekly reboots, but I am getting the dreaded S03 message now, which I believe is the first time for me. I forced a manual connection and it got to over 50% on the last step before I stopped checking the status, but it failed before completing.

I guess I'll try turning off my TA and forcing another manual connection, but if that fails I gather my best options is to clear & delete... Which I did this summer and am not looking forward to again.

As an aside, I have to say I'm pretty close to giving up on Tivo. I have a (Sony) BluRay player with a nice Netflix interface (nicer than Tivo's, IMO) and it streams music & videos from my PC. Add these issues and I don't know what I'm paying Tivo for any more. I do love the interface, but I'm not feeling that it's worth the $15/mo (or whatever) I'm paying the, plus the pain of having an extra box (TA) in my cabinet (which runs HOT).

...Just waiting for SNL to end and then I'm going to try to get my Tivo working again.


----------



## Eccles

mdbundy said:


> I guess I'll try turning off my TA and forcing another manual connection, but if that fails I gather my best options is to clear & delete... Which I did this summer and am not looking forward to again.


No, your next action should be the "channel lineup fix" which is far less destructive than a clear&delete.


----------



## mdbundy

Eccles said:


> No, your next action should be the "channel lineup fix" which is far less destructive than a clear&delete.


Thanks. I realized that after I posted that message. The channel lineup fix worked fine -- GC completed around 4:30 AM last night. It's still indexing the new guide data.

Two questions:

- To those with their TA on a timer... Often, why I power-down my TA it "gets out of sync" with the Tivo, and I find that I end up having to reboot them both. Is this not a symptom you also suffer from? I am reminded by this because, as a precaution, I unplugged my TA before initiating the lineup fix above, and I had to reboot the Tivo to get it to "talk to" the TA.

- How often does GC need to run? With the "sync" problem in mind, I'm more inclined to make unplugging the TA a weekly ritual, say, Friday night, so that I will be around to manually kick things if needed. Otherwise I'd be left with an unhappy family.


----------



## Teeps

mdbundy said:


> Two questions:
> 
> - To those with their TA on a timer... Often, why I power-down my TA it "gets out of sync" with the Tivo, and I find that I end up having to reboot them both. Is this not a symptom you also suffer from?


I have never seen this problem with my setup. Though now that I read it here, it's probably the next problem my TiVo will develope.



mdbundy said:


> - How often does GC need to run?


Every day would be ideal. My TiVo S1 runs it every day.

GC runs faithfully every other day on my setup. T/A is switched off with lamp timer for 4 hours every morning....


----------



## Eccles

I don't have mine on a timer, but I haven't noticed that behavior when I've manually powered the TA off and on. Perhaps it was the combination of doing the lineup fix wit the TA down.

As for frequency, I think that once a week would be sufficient; not necessarily optimal, but sufficient.


----------



## mdbundy

After having completed the "lineup fix," I'm not sure if I should be concerned. More than 12 hours after the fix and after a manual reboot and forced connection to Tivo, none of my season passes beyond EOD Monday are scheduled. I'm a little surprised none of the additional scheduling has taken place, i.e., I expected it to "trickle in" over the course of the day. When I try to find programs by name they don't show up in the results, even though they are in my guide if I navigate to future days.

Any thoughts -- am I just being anxious or is there a problem?


----------



## mdbundy

To answer my own question: A bit before midnight last night I still didn't have anything in my To Do list more than 24 hours away, so I decided to unplug my TA. It looks like GC completed around 1:00 AM and my To-Do list is now full. I'm not sure if this is at all related to the TA but all seems to be fine now. I guess it's time for me to put my TA on a timer as was suggested here. 

Thanks for the help!


----------



## bbode

Hi All,

Long story short, which I have been meaning to post it for some time: Tivo HD, 1TB upgrade. Worked great for 20 months in Los Angeles, no tuning adapter. Moved to San Diego, tuning adapter, immediate failure of GC, one week after I moved I was out of program data. Performed the fixes that did not involve unplugging the tuning adapter until the unit got stuck in an infinite loop at S03. Bollocks.

The next part of my story, well, no one here is going to like what I have to say: I did what a normal person would do, I restored my Tivo back to the original 160 GB drive (I'd never even booted the thing with that drive, I upgraded it the day I got it). Lo and behold, for 3 weeks I had no issues whatsoever. It was pathetic, a whopping 20 hours of HD, but the unit was full of shows and season passes and working great.

Next, I went out and bought the "official WD external 1TB eSata drive" for $100. A new esata cable later (some sort of well-known issue, the one they give you just won't work) and I now have a Tivo HD with more capacity than my original that GCs every night and is full of season passes and data.

So, I know there is one guy here who does nothing but say "my stock tivo, it does this, tivo sucks!!!." I don't buy it -- my "stock, factory approved" tivo works great. It GCs every night - I check - and has updated program information. It infuriates me that there is clearly something simple wrong, and I am sure tivo could fix it. But I cannot deny that i now have a functional tivo, slightly more storage than before, and the thing just works. As it did before I ended up in tuning adapter land.

I have also had no issues so far, cable notwithstanding, with the external drive. I don't like it, but it appears to work fine.

So to the guy who says "my stock tivo just won't work," send it back to tivo and get it repaired. I just don't believe you. Mine works great with the original equipment and not upgraded. Which I hate, but is the truth. Add option #3 to all your lists: put back the original drive, stop power-cycling the tuning adapter, and use the esata upgrade.


----------



## unitron

bbode said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Long story short, which I have been meaning to post it for some time: Tivo HD, 1TB upgrade. Worked great for 20 months in Los Angeles, no tuning adapter. Moved to San Diego, tuning adapter, immediate failure of GC, one week after I moved I was out of program data. Performed the fixes that did not involve unplugging the tuning adapter until the unit got stuck in an infinite loop at S03. Bollocks.
> 
> The next part of my story, well, no one here is going to like what I have to say: I did what a normal person would do, I restored my Tivo back to the original 160 GB drive (I'd never even booted the thing with that drive, I upgraded it the day I got it). Lo and behold, for 3 weeks I had no issues whatsoever. It was pathetic, a whopping 20 hours of HD, but the unit was full of shows and season passes and working great.
> 
> Next, I went out and bought the "official WD external 1TB eSata drive" for $100. A new esata cable later (some sort of well-known issue, the one they give you just won't work) and I now have a Tivo HD with more capacity than my original that GCs every night and is full of season passes and data.
> 
> So, I know there is one guy here who does nothing but say "my stock tivo, it does this, tivo sucks!!!." I don't buy it -- my "stock, factory approved" tivo works great. It GCs every night - I check - and has updated program information. It infuriates me that there is clearly something simple wrong, and I am sure tivo could fix it. But I cannot deny that i now have a functional tivo, slightly more storage than before, and the thing just works. As it did before I ended up in tuning adapter land.
> 
> I have also had no issues so far, cable notwithstanding, with the external drive. I don't like it, but it appears to work fine.
> 
> So to the guy who says "my stock tivo just won't work," send it back to tivo and get it repaired. I just don't believe you. Mine works great with the original equipment and not upgraded. Which I hate, but is the truth. Add option #3 to all your lists: put back the original drive, stop power-cycling the tuning adapter, and use the esata upgrade.


When you upgraded to the internal 1TB, what size did you make the swap partition?


----------



## DougJohnson

A week ago, I took my TA off the timer just to see what would happen. Since then, I've had three spontaneous GCs with the most recent this morning. The guide cache and indexing are all updating fine. So, until things start to go bad, I'm going to leave the TA off the timer. -- Doug

OLED S3, 1 TB, Motorola TA.


----------



## tootal2

unpluging the tuning adaptor been working for me. i just look at my to do list to see ifs going to record from cable in the next 5 hours then i unplug it.


----------



## Deinonych

I had a similar problem this evening, but a reboot solved it.


----------



## cheezmo1

It seems when i unplug my tuning adapter's power, the tivo will connect but updates to program data are not seen soon after. I still have to reboot the tivo for it to be updated. And it usually freezes so I have to unplug the tivo. I have abanded this method. I have a 1TB (instant cake) internal and the tivo certified 1TB external married to it.
I switched to my usb wireless a couple of days ago and it connected by itself without errors. But I still had to reboot for the tivo to recognize the updated program data. Lately plugged into ethernet, i have been getting failed to connect so I switched to wireless.
My tivo totally freaks out if I unplug the TA power or USB cable. Sometimes it freezes, others it never resyncs with the tivo and a reboot of tivo will fix it. Everything gets fixed by a tivo reboot. The one thing that does not is the GC. The last GC was 12-2 when i unplugged my TA power.
This thread has helped me see it's not just my tivo with the issue. Thanks everyone for your experiences and troubleshooting.
-Tom


----------



## alyssa

Getting up to speed on this issue since both of my S3's have had the S03 error. this is a long thread to read..

Does the garbage collection issue happen to Premiers? I checked last night & my premier seems to be able to dump through it's TA.

In my blundering to fix the problem I did re-run guided set up- apparently after I had forced a GC dump since I didn't have the loop problem. I think I did a Clear program info & todo list and a Kickstart 57 prior to re-running guide setup. I'm now getting double folders, as in a pre S03 shows & after S03 error folder for the same show.

I understand the 'unplug the TA' solution. Which other solution, like running KS57 or Clear Program & TD list or clearing the channel list will dump the GC without producing the clear my SP list & re-enter it?

I'm trying to do a dump via button clicks instead of pulling the plug without getting multiple folders of the same show.


----------



## cheezmo1

I unplugged the TA power last night with my tivo on and not in standby last night. The GC completed this morning. I then plugged in the power and it took tivo about 5 to 10 mins to recognize the TA and now I am back up and running.
Looks like everyone's suggestion worked. Thanks. I will be buying a timer... 

-Tom


----------



## Teeps

cheezmo1 said:


> I unplugged the TA power last night with my tivo on and not in standby last night. The GC completed this morning. I then plugged in the power and it took tivo about 5 to 10 mins to recognize the TA and now I am back up and running.
> Looks like everyone's suggestion worked. Thanks. I will be buying a timer...
> 
> -Tom


Interesting twist about your TiVo having problems when t/a is powered down while TiVo is in standby mode.

I always park my S3 TiVo in standby mode, and it has not had the problem your's experienced.


----------



## WO312

alyssa said:


> Getting up to speed on this issue since both of my S3's have had the S03 error. this is a long thread to read..
> 
> Does the garbage collection issue happen to Premiers? I checked last night & my premier seems to be able to dump through it's TA.
> 
> In my blundering to fix the problem I did re-run guided set up- apparently after I had forced a GC dump since I didn't have the loop problem. I think I did a Clear program info & todo list and a Kickstart 57 prior to re-running guide setup. I'm now getting double folders, as in a pre S03 shows & after S03 error folder for the same show.
> 
> I understand the 'unplug the TA' solution. Which other solution, like running KS57 or Clear Program & TD list or clearing the channel list will dump the GC without producing the clear my SP list & re-enter it?
> 
> I'm trying to do a dump via button clicks instead of pulling the plug without getting multiple folders of the same show.


Can't comment about Premieres. My assumption is that they are O.K. because Tivo is still updating software for them. Doesn't seem to be the case for Series 3.

I also have the double folders because of the S03 error and doing a Clear & Delete. Oh well, others can learn from our mistakes.

I think you basically have 2 options to reliably force a GC and avoid doing a Clear & Delete:

1. Disrupt communications between the tuning adapter and the Tivo for several hours. You can do this automatically with a timer, manually by pushing the power button, or manually by unplugging the USB cable. Whichever suits your fancy.

2. Do the channel fix method, as outlined in earlier posts. I think that is what you allude to in your post. A channel fix can take up to 12 hours or so, but also can be much shorter.


----------



## alyssa

WO312 said:


> Can't comment about Premieres. My assumption is that they are O.K. because Tivo is still updating software for them. Doesn't seem to be the case for Series 3.


thanks- i checked my premier, it doesn't seem to have the issue.



WO312 said:


> I also have the double folders because of the S03 error and doing a Clear & Delete. Oh well, others can learn from our mistakes.


 Thank you- it is nice to know the 'double folder' is a result of 'clear & delete'! I was not sure what I did that caused the 'double folder' problem.



WO312 said:


> I think you basically have 2 options to reliably force a GC and avoid doing a Clear & Delete:
> 1. Disrupt communications between the tuning adapter and the Tivo
> 2. Do the channel fix method, as outlined in earlier posts.


Wonderful, thanks. the problem children (S3's) are in my bedroom & are watched by the kiddo consiquently they record late at night. I have no problems setting the channel fix method once every couple of weeks- obviously I don't mind the nag screen.
I suspect my S3's hadn't done a GC dump in a months prior to the S03 error code.


----------



## Eccles

It seems that we've pretty much settled on two solutions:


To avoid getting the "guide data will run out" message, or to get rid of it as long as you're not getting S03 errors: unplug the TA for a few hours, either manually or via a timer.

If you _have _let things go to the point that you're now getting S03 errors: perform the "channel line-up fix".

Both these solutions will disrupt your viewing and/or recording for a while (the latter for up to 24 hours in extreme cases; don't panic - let it complete), but neither will result in the loss of your existing recordings, SP's, WL's, or settings, nor cause duplicate folders in Now Playing.

If there was some way to put this information at the top of this thread, it would save newcomers a lot of reading.


----------



## WO312

Eccles said:


> It seems that we've pretty much settled on two solutions:
> 
> 
> To avoid getting the "guide data will run out" message, or to get rid of it as long as you're not getting S03 errors: unplug the TA for a few hours, either manually or via a timer.
> 
> If you _have _let things go to the point that you're now getting S03 errors: perform the "channel line-up fix".
> 
> Both these solutions will disrupt your viewing and/or recording for a while (the latter for up to 24 hours in extreme cases; don't panic - let it complete), but neither will result in the loss of your existing recordings, SP's, WL's, or settings, nor cause duplicate folders in Now Playing.
> 
> If there was some way to put this information at the top of this thread, it would save newcomers a lot of reading.


Not a bad idea.

Looking back, post #1 is from tootal2 !! And he's still contributing. So if he wants to edit his post, that might help some people.

Or we can just let them read.


----------



## Eccles

WO312 said:


> Looking back, post #1 is from tootal2 !! And he's still contributing. So if he wants to edit his post, that might help some people.


Good point; I've dropped him a PM.



> Or we can just let them read.


That's just cruel.


----------



## alyssa

Eccles said:


> That's just cruel.


not so much-
all tho, a summery somewhere linkable would be nice


----------



## [NG]Owner

There's a third way, too.

Interrupt the Tivo's communication to the mothership for 48 hours in a row.

That's the method I use and it works like a charm. My TivoHD with issues only has access to the mothership Tuesday, Wednesday & Saturday. The other days of the week, access is blocked. Haven't had a GC issue since.

[NG]Owner


----------



## cheezmo1

Teeps said:


> Interesting twist about your TiVo having problems when t/a is powered down while TiVo is in standby mode.
> 
> I always park my S3 TiVo in standby mode, and it has not had the problem your's experienced.


It could be ID 10T error on my wife's part. Keeping it on assures me i can see what tivo is doing. I may go back to ethernet to see if that works too. Anyways, what I found here works, so thanks again everyone for contributing.
-Tom


----------



## sushikitten

Thumbs up for the TA on a timer solution. No issues since we set that up. 

/knock on wood


----------



## Teeps

sushikitten said:


> Thumbs up for the TA on a timer solution. No issues since we set that up.
> 
> /knock on wood


:up::up:

Good to hear.

Some times "there i fixed it" IS the best solution.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/view/80712667/

I'm ultimately solving my problem with an Elite.


----------



## digitaldave

I also thumbs-up the TA timer method. I've been doing the channel lineup change, but two days ago after reading this forum switched to the TA timer method. GC is now upldating and suggestions are starting to appear after 2 months of no suggestions.


----------



## WO312

Teeps said:


> :up::up:
> 
> Good to hear.
> 
> Some times "there i fixed it" IS the best solution.
> 
> http://www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/view/80712667/
> 
> I'm ultimately solving my problem with an Elite.


Looks like I'm going in a different direction. I have had an HTPC hooked up to my system for a while that was just recording network HD shows as a backup. I just bought a Ceton USB 4 tuner, put in a cable card and tuning adapter, and now have the functional equivalent of an Elite. With unlimited hard drive capacity.

I'm still keeping my Tivo HD because it is lifetime, and has the ability to do OTA, but I will disconnect my two Series 2 machines.

I'm playing around with Recorded TV HD as my interface. It will put shows in folders, which is my main concern about Windows 7 Media Center. So I may be good to go.

Looks like the end of the road for me and Tivo as far as new purchases are concerned. It was a great 11 years or so (and 6 machines with lifetime), but this TA problem has pushed me over the edge.

I will miss the Tivo interface on my HTPC, but I can live with that. And I still have the Tivo HD for any interface fix I may need.


----------



## Teeps

WO312 said:


> I will miss the Tivo interface on my HTPC, but I can live with that. And I still have the Tivo HD for any interface fix I may need.


I considered the ceton option too. But it won't pass the WAF in my house.

HTPC is a good hobby.


----------



## alyssa

[NG]Owner;8849307 said:


> There's a third way, too.
> 
> Interrupt the Tivo's communication to the mothership for 48 hours in a row.
> 
> That's the method I use and it works like a charm. My TivoHD with issues only has access to the mothership Tuesday, Wednesday & Saturday. The other days of the week, access is blocked. Haven't had a GC issue since.
> 
> [NG]Owner


like, unplug the cat5 for a couple of days?

eta; when I was getting the nag screen a year + ago, i use to do a clear thumb & suggestions. That got rid of the nag screen. I'm now wondering if that forced a GC dump. I'll test that & report back


----------



## WO312

[NG]Owner;8849307 said:


> There's a third way, too.
> 
> Interrupt the Tivo's communication to the mothership for 48 hours in a row.
> 
> That's the method I use and it works like a charm. My TivoHD with issues only has access to the mothership Tuesday, Wednesday & Saturday. The other days of the week, access is blocked. Haven't had a GC issue since.
> 
> [NG]Owner





alyssa said:


> like, unplug the cat5 for a couple of days?
> 
> eta; when I was getting the nag screen a year + ago, i use to do a clear thumb & suggestions. That got rid of the nag screen. I'm now wondering if that forced a GC dump. I'll test that & report back


The reason I only mentioned two methods was because I used the word RELIABLE methods. While disconnecting from the internet has worked for some, it has not worked well for others. Also, I believe automating the disconnect method means altering your router settings, which is something the vast majority of people don't want to mess with.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## DougJohnson

WO312 said:


> The reason I only mentioned two methods was because I used the word RELIABLE methods. While disconnecting from the internet has worked for some, it has not worked well for others. Also, I believe automating the disconnect method means altering your router settings, which is something the vast majority of people don't want to mess with.
> 
> Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.


I was using the net disconnect method until the TA timer came along. I think the reason that it does not work for some people is they did not stay disconnected long enough. Once a TiVo starts complaining about guide data running out, GC has gotten way behind. The first time I disconnected, it took over 3 days for GC to complete. After that, 48 hours or so.

Yes, to automate it requires both a router that can disconnect a particular IP address by day of the week and the willingness to mess with it. It is also a problem if you frequently schedule recordings on the TiVo web site. TiVo won't get those requests while disconnected.

But if your TA is buried deep in a equipment rack or your To Do list has recordings at all times of the day, you might find network disconnect more useful to you.

I took my TA off the timer about three weeks ago and all is still going fine. I get a GC every two or three days, guide data is updated, cached, and indexed near daily like it is supposed to.

Some of us may just have had a transient problem that let GC get wedged and don't need to continue to force a GC by any method.

-- Doug


----------



## WO312

DougJohnson said:


> I was using the net disconnect method until the TA timer came along. I think the reason that it does not work for some people is they did not stay disconnected long enough. Once a TiVo starts complaining about guide data running out, GC has gotten way behind. The first time I disconnected, it took over 3 days for GC to complete. After that, 48 hours or so.
> 
> Yes, to automate it requires both a router that can disconnect a particular IP address by day of the week and the willingness to mess with it. It is also a problem if you frequently schedule recordings on the TiVo web site. TiVo won't get those requests while disconnected.
> 
> But if your TA is buried deep in a equipment rack or your To Do list has recordings at all times of the day, you might find network disconnect more useful to you.
> 
> I took my TA off the timer about three weeks ago and all is still going fine. I get a GC every two or three days, guide data is updated, cached, and indexed near daily like it is supposed to.
> 
> Some of us may just have had a transient problem that let GC get wedged and don't need to continue to force a GC by any method.
> 
> -- Doug


Thanks for the info. I think I will try eliminating the timer and see what my Tivo does. After the holidays, since I will be traveling and don't want my GC to get messed up while I'm gone.


----------



## Teeps

Bump to keep this one on the first page of the group.


----------



## mnw

Long-time stalker, first-time poster.  This is a long post, but with all the variables I've seen in this long thread, can't hurt to be thorough.

We have 3 Tivos: S1, S2, and a standard S3 HD XL with Cisco TA on flash version 1501. We're on TWC Austin. The S3 XL box has the problem.

This is actually our 4th S3 XL box, after experiencing this same problem in August 2010 with our 1st S3 XL box (also standard, with TA), only to go down the rabbit hole with Tivo support off/on for days. That resulted in 3 replacement boxes in the span of 1-2 weeks till one finally worked. If I remember correctly, I think we at least determined the 2nd and 3rd boxes were bad rather quickly, and only the 4th box required the call to TWC to come out to pair the cable card with the Tivo. (One had an obnoxious fan, don't remember the issue with the 3rd box). That experience told me that these boxes were problematic, and Tivo was focused on the next version.

I'm glad to see the research on this issue has evolved! Last year, I read through "Running out of guide data despite daily service connections." I ended up with the green screen of death loop, so I was well aware when the "Program guide will run out" messages started up again on this Tivo. However, I didn't bother going to the forums when it initially started up again, figuring I would just do regular reboots till this one finally fries like the last one.

The timing of the issue on this box was almost identical to my 1st! The 1st box was about 1 yr, 2 months old when I finally called Tivo, and this box is now 1 yr, 4 months. We keep a ton on our Tivo. Some stats:
-	We have 91 season passes, 211 saved recordings (varying in recording quality and length, of course). Our last box was about the same upon its death.
-	Our last Suggested recording was mid-August 2011, but till reading this, I thought was just because it was finally filling up.
-	Before troubleshooting ideas found here, my GC date was 10/27/11. I think the nag screen started around Halloween, then we commenced regular reboots.
-	I have noticed a change in the Recently Deleted volume over time. It used to have 200+ items. Now, maybe 30. Again, figured that is due to disk space filling up.

*This week, rebooting did not stop the nag screen. I went to the original thread I'd saved from 8/2010, which led me to this thread. I looks like this thread has SAVED MY TIVO!!! Here are the steps I've taken the last two days:*
-	Forced a connection, watched it churn only to fail with an "unknown" error
-	Unplug Tivo for a cold restart, then forced a connection again. Finally get the S03 error. (I hadn't finished reading the thread at this point)
-	I did the "channel line-up fix" last night. That took about 6.5 hours (at 6.5 hrs, loading was at 98%, didn't check again till morning). It was on "Preparing (Preparing)" for over an hour. Thank you for the tip that it can take 12 hours!
-	This morning, I saw GC updated to 12/27 8:32 pm, but I still had the nag screen
-	Rebooted
-	After the reboot, the program guide date was 1/10/12 and nag screen was gone, but I couldn't see any programs past 12/29, except when viewing the live guide.
-	In hindsight, I should have looked at that the Indexing date at that time, then just waited a few hours till it updated. Instead, I went on to force a connection and unplug the TA. A few hours later when I went to see if the GC date had updated, I saw that the Indexing date had updated in that timeframe. Program data finally looked good at that point, so reconnected the TA.

From here on out, I will monitor my GC date and probably put my TA on a timer. Till I set up the timer, I'll disconnect the USB for a few hours when the GC gets old. If I let it go too long and get the nag screen, I'll start with the "channel line-up" fix before getting to the point of the S03 error.

*THANKS SO MUCH FOR ALL THE EFFORT FINDING DECENT WORK-AROUNDS!*


----------



## Teeps

mnw said:


> From here on out, I will monitor my GC date and probably put my TA on a timer. Till I set up the timer, I'll disconnect the USB for a few hours when the GC gets old. If I let it go too long and get the nag screen, I'll start with the "channel line-up" fix before getting to the point of the S03 error.
> 
> *THANKS SO MUCH FOR ALL THE EFFORT FINDING DECENT WORK-AROUNDS!*


My TiVo responded to usb disconnection for a few weeks then, that stopped working.
Don't fight the force... just spend 10 bucks for a timer, do it now... 
Problem solved. Well, worked around; anyway it works. My S3 has GC updates, every other day, and has been working fine since installing the TA timer.

Make sure to notify TiVo! of your problem, especially since you say that the TiVo with the problem is completely OEM.

Somewhere in this thread was a gentleman that proclaimed that this problem (related to tuning adapter) does not occur with 100% OEM machines... well at least 2 of us know better.


----------



## WO312

Got back last night from a holiday trip. I was gone for 8 days and decided to remove the timer while I was gone. I had an inking that my GC might work because the night before I left I had a GC update at 6:00 PM, but my timer is off from 5:00 - 9:00 AM.

Anyway, when I got home last night, my GC was current. So things are back to normal, after a month or so on a timer.

We'll see what happens from here on out.


----------



## Teeps

WO312 said:


> Got back last night from a holiday trip. I was gone for 8 days and decided to remove the timer while I was gone. I had an inking that my GC might work because the night before I left I had a GC update at 6:00 PM, but my timer is off from 5:00 - 9:00 AM.
> 
> Anyway, when I got home last night, my GC was current. So things are back to normal, after a month or so on a timer.
> 
> We'll see what happens from here on out.


TiVo figured out the problem and silently pushed out a patch?

I'll take mine off the timer today and see what happens over the weekend...


----------



## WO312

Teeps said:


> TiVo figured out the problem and silently pushed out a patch?......


EXACTLY !! The 12th of Never happened on the 12th Night of Christmas . 

Seriously, DougJohnson above had the same thing happen to him. Hope you get lucky too.


----------



## DougJohnson

Teeps said:


> TiVo figured out the problem and silently pushed out a patch?
> 
> I'll take mine off the timer today and see what happens over the weekend...


I doubt it. I've been watching the software version on my OLED S3 and it hasn't changed, nor has there been a spontaneous reboot.

My pet theory is that we experienced some transient that caused GC to get behind and not recover. A couple of forced GCs and things are good again.

I have been off the timer for 6 weeks and all is running fine. I have some suspicion that the intervals between GCs are getting longer, which might hint at trouble ahead. But I need to start a log to know for sure.

-- Doug


----------



## Teeps

Teeps said:


> TiVo figured out the problem and silently pushed out a patch?
> 
> I'll take mine off the timer today (30Dec2011) and see what happens over the weekend...


As of 1900 hrs 01Jan2012; my S3 had no GC update.
Put the tuning adapter back on the timer at that time.

As of 0800 hrs today; GC report date/time Mon 0341 hrs.


----------



## DougJohnson

Teeps said:


> As of 1900 hrs 01Jan2012; my S3 had no GC update.
> Put the tuning adapter back on the timer at that time.
> 
> As of 0800 hrs today; GC report date/time Mon 0341 hrs.


You may not have waited long enough. My GC is happening every 3 or 3 1/2 days. Seems to be often enough. -- Doug


----------



## WO312

DougJohnson said:


> You may not have waited long enough. My GC is happening every 3 or 3 1/2 days. Seems to be often enough. -- Doug


I got back last Thursday night and the GC was from Thursday morning. 4 days later, it's still at Thursday morning. Curious. I'll give it another day or two, but if no update it's back to the timer.

Maybe the problem is ME. My Tivo doesn't like it when I'm in the house.


----------



## Teeps

DougJohnson said:


> You may not have waited long enough. My GC is happening every 3 or 3 1/2 days. Seems to be often enough. -- Doug


Interesting observation. With t/a on timer GC occurs every other day on mine.


----------



## WO312

Well, it is now 6 days, STILL no new GC update. Going back on the timer.  Very strange.


----------



## Teeps

WO312 said:


> Well, it is now 6 days, STILL no new GC update. Going back on the timer.  Very strange.


Indeed it is... mine, after a few days of having the t/a off the timer, got back to back (two days consecutive) GC updates. Usually with timer on t/a GC updates every other day.


----------



## trackie999

Can you guys check if your indexing date moves daily? 

If it does change daily, but not your GC date then your GC is failing.

For me, I have 3 TAs on timers cutting power between 12:05 - 4:50 AM and I am getting daily GCs. (Usually done before 3 AM)


----------



## Teeps

trackie999 said:


> Can you guys check if your indexing date moves daily?


Yes, I have noticed the indexing occurs every day. GC every other day; usually in the 0300 hrs range.

T/A power off @ 0100; power on @ 0400 hrs daily.


----------



## WO312

trackie999 said:


> Can you guys check if your indexing date moves daily?
> 
> If it does change daily, but not your GC date then your GC is failing.
> 
> For me, I have 3 TAs on timers cutting power between 12:05 - 4:50 AM and I am getting daily GCs. (Usually done before 3 AM)





Teeps said:


> Yes, I have noticed the indexing occurs every day. GC every other day; usually in the 0300 hrs range.
> 
> T/A power off @ 0100; power on @ 0400 hrs daily.


Yes, me too. The indexing occurs every day. When I first started the timer, I would get a GC every day, but then it would start to skip and be every other day. My timer is off for about 4 hours a day from 5:00 A.M. to 9:00 A.M.

I see that your timer is off about 5 hours a day. Maybe that's the difference. I'm not sure I have a reliable 5 hour window every single day that I could afford to have my TA off. I don't mind every other day - no big deal.

Edit: When I put it back on the timer today, I left it off until the GC update, since I had a good window of time. Took slightly over 4 hours. A call home was happening at the time I unplugged the TA - not sure if that had any impact on the GC time.


----------



## trackie999

WO312 said:


> I see that your timer is off about 5 hours a day. Maybe that's the difference. I'm not sure I have a reliable 5 hour window every single day that I could afford to have my TA off. I don't mind every other day - no big deal.


I experimented with 4 hrs off daily and I was getting daily GC about 70-80% of the time.

Btw, you could turn your TA on/off multiple times a day. GC doesn't stop, it just slows to a crawl while TA is on. (disrupting recordings multiple times a day would be a major drawback for this option)

Like others, I also noticed that time required for GC changes over time. I would have expected this to affect all 3 THDs in sync, but that's not the case. One of my THDs may take 2 hrs a given day while the other 2 would complete in 3+ hours. Then a week later another one would get done quick while the others take longer.

Anyways, I've been pretty happy since putting TAs on timers; have not had to reboot my Tivos (60+ days), no more issues with guide running out or S03 errors.


----------



## aymanme

I've had this problem off-and-on with my my upgraded S3 w/ TA. Rather than pull the cables, I decided to setup iptables on my router to cut the tivos off from the outside for most of the week. We'll see how that goes and whether it fixes my problem. Will report back on what I found.

*My HD has never seen this problem, but it isn't upgraded, nor does it have a TA.


----------



## aymanme

aymanme said:


> I've had this problem off-and-on with my my upgraded S3 w/ TA. Rather than pull the cables, I decided to setup iptables on my router to cut the tivos off from the outside for most of the week. We'll see how that goes and whether it fixes my problem. Will report back on what I found.
> 
> *My HD has never seen this problem, but it isn't upgraded, nor does it have a TA.


Thanks so much for the tips here. SUCCESS! Setting up my router to cut off the tivo except for Wed & Sat fixed the problem. Everything has been working for the last couple of days w/o any fails.


----------



## DougJohnson

I first started having this problem in early October. With the help of this thread, I put my TA on a timer and everything went so well, I took the TA off the timer in the middle of November. 

After two months, I am still running well without the timer. I get a GC every 18-36 hours. Indexing and cache updates are about the same frequency.

The only difference between October and now, that I am aware of, is my TiVo was very full in October. The "recently deleted" folder had one show in it, now it has 75. 

-- Doug
S3 OLED, 1 TB, Motorola TA, Time Warner Cable in Dallas, Texas


----------



## Bob723

I added a timer to my TA today. Let's hope that fixes the program update issue. What's odd is that my 2nd HD TiVo with TA does NOT have any problems receiving the program updates - no timer needed for that one.


----------



## Teeps

Bob723 said:


> I added a timer to my TA today. Let's hope that fixes the program update issue. What's odd is that my 2nd HD TiVo with TA does NOT have any problems receiving the program updates - no timer needed for that one.


Are either of your TiVos S3 OLED models?


----------



## Bob723

Teeps said:


> Are either of your TiVos S3 OLED models?


No. Both TiVo HD units model TCD652160


----------



## dcrowell77

Not much to say, just adding 1 more person to the crowd of affected users. I'm running a TiVoHD with (official) external expansion drive and a tuning adapter. 

I'm attempting the TA and network unplug, wish me luck...


----------



## Teeps

dcrowell77 said:


> Not much to say, just adding 1 more person to the crowd of affected users. I'm running a TiVoHD with (official) external expansion drive and a tuning adapter.
> 
> I'm attempting the TA and network unplug, wish me luck...


Power down the TA was/is the easiest, least confusing (for me) way to get GC to run and update guide data.


----------



## aymanme

If you are running dd-wrt on your router, it is pretty easy to cut off the Tivos except for a couple of days / week. Of course you lose the ability to online schedule on short-notice, but otherwise it has been working fine for me for about a month now.


----------



## dcrowell77

dcrowell77 said:


> Not much to say, just adding 1 more person to the crowd of affected users. I'm running a TiVoHD with (official) external expansion drive and a tuning adapter.
> 
> I'm attempting the TA and network unplug, wish me luck...


My GC says that it ran today after having everything unplugged for about 4 hours. Thanks for the tips!


----------



## Bob723

If mine keeps acting up, the next thing I'm going to try is remove the backup power supply. When I got the upstairs unit, I connected it to backup & had lots of problems so I removed it & basically never had any more issues. The downstairs unit has been on a backup power supply for years with no issues. So now it has occurred to me perhaps that is my problem.


----------



## tootal2

I left my tuning adaptor unplug all day by mistake. came home and tivo was locked up
Im sick this. soon as i get my new desktop built i will be switching to windows media center.


----------



## Teeps

Update:
My S3 has been completing GC every other day for months, until this week.
Checked GC today and it says last completion was Monday... 
I disconnected the T/A this morning and will leave it that way until this afternoon to see what happens.

Only thing I have done recently was shuffled the season passes around and add a few.

Also observed last night was 5 to 10 second lag time responding to remote commands. And, picture & sound hesitation while watching a recorded program.

1530 hrs Just reconnected power to T/A and checked for completed GC.
Success! Back in business...


----------



## sushikitten

We just got a new premiere...which means a new tuning adapter once it arrives fromTime Warner. I'm not sure if I'll start with a timer right off the bat or give it time and see what happens...


----------



## Bob723

I removed the back up power supply one week ago and have had no problems since. It has been successfully updating daily and there have been no "program info will run out" messages. I've got my fingers crossed...


----------



## Teeps

Bob723 said:


> I removed the back up power supply one week ago and have had no problems since. It has been successfully updating daily and there have been no "program info will run out" messages. I've got my fingers crossed...


After a reboot (TiVo) if the GC completes, it should take a couple of weeks before seeing that message.

Check the line on system info marked GC; if the date is today or within 24 hours. You might be on to something...


----------



## Bob723

Teeps said:


> After a reboot (TiVo) if the GC completes, it should take a couple of weeks before seeing that message.
> 
> Check the line on system info marked GC; if the date is today or within 24 hours. You might be on to something...


Before, I was getting the warning less than 1 week after a reboot, however, I checked GC & it shows Feb 15. I checked the other TiVo & GC says Feb 18. I think I still have a problem...

I wonder if it has something to do with all of the other things connected to the TiVo? The bedroom unit is connected directly with the TV and has a cable card and network adapter connected to it - plus the TA. The family room unit has: cable card, external hard drive, audio, TV, network adapter, TA. I had also switched the "bad" TA to the other TiVo and vice versa but the problem stayed with the same TiVo in the family room.


----------



## aymanme

After running a bit more than a month with the "ethernet cut off" patch, it finally failed again and will run out of data. Perhaps the only option is to power down the TA for a couple hours / day


----------



## trackie999

I got bored and built a switched USB cable to go between Tivo HD and TA.
It has 2 relays in it that cuts all 4 USB lines when it's powered via a 12V adapter. I moved the timer from the TA to 12V adapter for USB cable and now switch the USB connection off for 4 hours during the night instead of the TA itself.

This way I was able to remove the extra RF splitter and gain 3.5dB back on my signal (I had issues tuning to some SDV channels, no longer an issue)

For me, disconnecting the TA works the best and it's been months since I've seen a running out of guide message.


----------



## DougJohnson

trackie999 said:


> For me, disconnecting the TA works the best and it's been months since I've seen a running out of guide message.


I took my TA off the timer over three months ago and have been running normally ever since. GC, guide updates, and indexing every 18-36 hours. It's clear I had some sort of transient that caused my troubles. The only thing I know that changed is my deleted programs folder was down to one show when I had the problems and it is back to a more normal 85 shows now.

Anyway, I know what to do if the problem comes back. -- Doug

S3 OLED, 1 TB, Motorola TA, Time Warner Dallas, Texas.


----------



## questors

Has there been shown to be a connection between the number of deleted shows and GC completing? I first encountered the the problem when the deleted show count was over 500. I manually deleted shows from the DS folder and have been keeping it in the 250 to 300 range. The GC will now run about twice a week which keeps me out of trouble, but occasionally I have to disconnect power to the TA for about 3 hours to allow GC to complete.


----------



## DougJohnson

questors said:


> Has there been shown to be a connection between the number of deleted shows and GC completing?


Not that I know of. I mentioned it as the only thing I knew was different.

As far as I know, the risk factors for this problem are Series 3 original or HD, tuning adapter, and increased storage with either a bigger internal drive or external drive. -- Doug


----------



## Teeps

Here we go again; GC appears constipated. GC has not completed since Monday morning. Indexing appears to be occurring each day as before.
(deleted files over 300)
I will wait until Saturday before a longer T/A power interruption.

UPDATE:
GC had completed sometime yesterday after noon.

Also noticed a new ad banner at the bottom of the now playing screen. There was no banner present for several days...


----------



## tootal2

I put my new desktop computer togeather. I will be order the ceton cable card adaptor for 200.00 soon. I hope windows media center does not have a gc problem. I will use my tivo on my bedroom with a antenna


----------



## Teeps

tootal2 said:


> I put my new desktop computer togeather. I will be order the ceton cable card adaptor for 200.00 soon. I hope windows media center does not have a gc problem. I will use my tivo on my bedroom with a antenna


Good luck with tootal2.

Might want to read this latest post regarding the Ceton card.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=21726876#post21726876

I too have been wrestling with the thought of the Ceton card.
About the only advantage I could see is; videos that are not copy protected can be moved faster for editing and storage.


----------



## windracer

trackie999 said:


> *
> DO NOT RUN CHANNEL LINE UP FIX IF YOU RECEIVED S03 ERROR!
> YOU WILL GET STUCK IN A NEVER ENDING GUIDED SETUP -> S03 -> REBOOT LOOP!*
> 
> If you have S03 Error, you can fix it by running "Clear program information & To Do List"


Well, crap. I didn't see this and am now stuck in the Guided Setup/S03 loop on my THD.

It's been in the closet for a few months, but before I put it away it did have a TA attached (which was moved to another box). I pulled it out yesterday to set it back up and the connection failed with S03. Found this thread and started reading it ... should have actually _finished_ it because once I found the Channel Lineup fix I tried that and am now stuck.

So am I correct in understanding that at this point, the only solution is to re-image the drive? My last WinMFS backup was from January 2011 so I'll have some re-setup to do but if that gets my TiVo HDXL working again I can deal with that.


----------



## tootal2

I think theres a way out of this. someone on here was able to get out of the s03 setup reboot loop but i dont know how he did it. You can call tivo they might know how to fix it.

you should of just unpluged your tivo from the internet so it could get cought up on the guide info.

I did the same thing a year a go. i had to use winmfs with a back image i had. If you use winmfs to make a backup it will back up the loop to.



windracer said:


> Well, crap. I didn't see this and am now stuck in the Guided Setup/S03 loop on my THD.
> 
> It's been in the closet for a few months, but before I put it away it did have a TA attached (which was moved to another box). I pulled it out yesterday to set it back up and the connection failed with S03. Found this thread and started reading it ... should have actually _finished_ it because once I found the Channel Lineup fix I tried that and am now stuck.
> 
> So am I correct in understanding that at this point, the only solution is to re-image the drive? My last WinMFS backup was from January 2011 so I'll have some re-setup to do but if that gets my TiVo HDXL working again I can deal with that.


----------



## tootal2

It does give you 4 tuners and will work with 3 tb harddrives



Teeps said:


> Good luck with tootal2.
> 
> Might want to read this latest post regarding the Ceton card.
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=21726876#post21726876
> 
> I too have been wrestling with the thought of the Ceton card.
> About the only advantage I could see is; videos that are not copy protected can be moved faster for editing and storage.


----------



## windracer

tootal2 said:


> you should of just unpluged your tivo from the internet so it could get cought up on the guide info.


I know that now. 



tootal2 said:


> I did the same thing a year a go. i had to use winmfs with a back image i had. If you use winmfs to make a backup it will back up the loop to.


Right, I'll use my old backup from a year ago ... not make a current backup and restore it.


----------



## WO312

tootal2 said:


> It does give you 4 tuners and will work with 3 tb harddrives


I said in this thread back in Novbember that I was going to experiment with an HTPC. I have done so, and while there have been problems, overall I'm relatively happy. Not ecstatic, but not tearing my hair out either.

Comments and observations:

- Windows is unforgiving and ridiculous when it comes to DRM (Digital Rights Management). I changed the processor in my HTPC (not the motherboard, just the processor). Any recordings that were restricted copy (which on TWC is everything but the network channels) would not longer play. My advice is to make sure you have robust hardware to start with and don't make ANY changes.

- I have had problems with my Ceton USB. The AVS Forum thread is interesting. I have been able to solve them by pulling the plug on it and putting power back to it. Lately it has been pretty stable, but it definitey is not like a Tivo HD. Not quite ready for prime time. Fortunately I have enough other tuners that I haven't missed any recordings, but I'm definitely not ready to cut the cord yet.

- AFAIK, I have had no problems related to the TA. Sometimes when I reboot the HTPC the TA doesn't hook up correctly (blinking light) and I have to power it on and off, but most of the time it does fine by itself.

If you don't mind tinkering, it's not bad. And by tinker, I mean you are pretty comfortable around computers, drivers, software, troubleshooting, etc. If you expect a consumer ready device like a Tivo, stay away. I personally think a lot of the problems are related to Windows and Windows Media Center, and not all Ceton's fault, but at the end of the day, all you want is something that records reliably. A couple if times I haven't been able to watch recordings, and it turned out that Windows could no longer see my display device driver. I had to uninstall the driver, reboot, and then things were O.K. I blame that on Windows, but who knows??

It is quite nice to have 4 tuners. And the ability to go online, or whatever else you do with your computer. I have put my DVD library on hard disks, so I can watch TV or movies all from WMC, with cover art and synopses.

As I said, I'm relatively happy, but not ecstatic. I have a feeling I will get there - just not sure when. 

P.S. My Tivo HD is humming along with the TA on a digital timer. I have it off from 5:05 - 8:45 each morning, and it updates at least every other day like clockwork.

Edit: In fairness, I have to believe a lot of people have no issues. It's probably like this TA issue we're dealing with - we have problems with it, but most don't. With the inifinte possibilites of different hardware and software combinations when you're dealing with Windows, it could be a random event. Just don't go into it assuming everything will work out. It may not.

My understanding is that Ceton is working on their own 6 tuner device that will be a complete DVR, based on WMC 7. I have to believe that when that is released it will be quite robust.


----------



## windracer

windracer said:


> My last WinMFS backup was from January 2011 so I'll have some re-setup to do but if that gets my TiVo HDXL working again I can deal with that.


I was able to restore my 1TB drive with my old backup (which had 11.0j) and get my box working again. After it updated to 11.0k I did clear & delete and then re-ran guided setup. I have to re-build all my SPs now, but that's why I have 'em documented (and I can copy some via tivo.com).


----------



## Teeps

WO312 said:


> I said in this thread back in Novbember that I was going to experiment with an HTPC.


I have been "experimenting" with HTPC for over 10 years. With varying degrees of success and frustration... 
That said: HTPC is not for 99% of consumers; for the reasons (specific and generic) mentioned in your post above. And, in my house a total FAIL in WAF. To this day she does not use HTPC at all.
The only reason I built the first one; at that time it was the cheapest way to record OTA HD programming.

"HTPC" a hobby at best.


----------



## mjsmith3

windracer said:


> Well, crap. I didn't see this and am now stuck in the Guided Setup/S03 loop on my THD.
> 
> It's been in the closet for a few months, but before I put it away it did have a TA attached (which was moved to another box). I pulled it out yesterday to set it back up and the connection failed with S03. Found this thread and started reading it ... should have actually _finished_ it because once I found the Channel Lineup fix I tried that and am now stuck.
> 
> So am I correct in understanding that at this point, the only solution is to re-image the drive? My last WinMFS backup was from January 2011 so I'll have some re-setup to do but if that gets my TiVo HDXL working again I can deal with that.


Me too, got the S03 loop after only reading partway thru this thread. Shelved the TiVo for now as I'm dreading the restore. If someone knows how to get out of the loop I'd appreciate it


----------



## tootal2

Does the tuning adapter cause the so3 error? I only had it happen on one tivo hd and it had a stock 160 gig drive. I replaced the 160 drive with a 160 gig drive taken out of another tivo hd. the wd dvr expander worked with it.



mjsmith3 said:


> Me too, got the S03 loop after only reading partway thru this thread. Shelved the TiVo for now as I'm dreading the restore. If someone knows how to get out of the loop I'd appreciate it


----------



## mjsmith3

Seems that way. Would like to know a way out of the loop without restoring the image


----------



## tootal2

I would just restore the image. It will not take long to remake your season passes.

My tivo says it will run out of program info in 3 days. Think i will get that ceton cable card tuner for my desktop computer.



mjsmith3 said:


> Seems that way. Would like to know a way out of the loop without restoring the image


----------



## WO312

tootal2 said:


> I would just restore the image. It will not take long to remake your season passes.
> 
> My tivo says it will run out of program info in 3 days. Think i will get that ceton cable card tuner for my desktop computer.


Have you tried to leave the TA off for an extended period to see if GC will update??


----------



## tootal2

yep have to do that everyweek. tivo should fix this problem. but i guess they dont care about the tivo hd users.



WO312 said:


> Have you tried to leave the TA off for an extended period to see if GC will update??


----------



## ravingfans

mjsmith3 said:


> Seems that way. Would like to know a way out of the loop without restoring the image


You can modify fakecall.tcl to get out of the loop. I've been trying to remember where I put my modified version to help you, but must have lost it several reboots ago. I'll keep digging or if you check on the forums you might be able to find it quicker.


----------



## Bob723

My family room TiVo had been giving me the "program info will run out" message on a routine basis. So a few weeks ago I purchased an external hard drive to attach to my bedroom TiVo which has never had this problem. My intent was to record the same programs in the bedroom as in the family room to make sure I didn't miss something. Ever since I purchased the hard drive, the family room has been updating as it is supposed to. I'm happy about that and I don't mind the extra storage on the other TiVo but... does anyone have an idea as to why it is working now? I have not changed anything in the family room. I did have the TA on a timer for a while but that made things worse so I removed it - I kept getting the pink screen of death. My cable provider is Charter. Do you think they changed something? One weekend both TAs were down and it was due to a Charter issue - it has been since then that both have been working fine.


----------



## tootal2

You wont mess any programs. It still has 2 weeks of guide info even if says it has less then 7 days. I just unplug my tuning adapter 1 time a week for about 4 hours.

also permanently delete everything in the recently deleted folder. it seems to help



Bob723 said:


> My family room TiVo had been giving me the "program info will run out" message on a routine basis. So a few weeks ago I purchased an external hard drive to attach to my bedroom TiVo which has never had this problem. My intent was to record the same programs in the bedroom as in the family room to make sure I didn't miss something. Ever since I purchased the hard drive, the family room has been updating as it is supposed to. I'm happy about that and I don't mind the extra storage on the other TiVo but... does anyone have an idea as to why it is working now? I have not changed anything in the family room. I did have the TA on a timer for a while but that made things worse so I removed it - I kept getting the pink screen of death. My cable provider is Charter. Do you think they changed something? One weekend both TAs were down and it was due to a Charter issue - it has been since then that both have been working fine.


----------



## Icarus

I have an S3, TWC, Cisco TA.

I've always just rebooted when I saw the annoying running out of guide data and that's served me well up until now. Now I've got S03. Reboot, KS57, etc, none of that did anything of course, then I found this thread.

I've unplugged the Cisco TA and disconnected the wireless adaptor. Indexing advanced to now. I'm waiting to see if GC will advance as well. It's still saying Feb 27, but I haven't been disconnected for very long yet.

If GC advances, what's the next step? Try to connect? Restart?

If I got this right, I think it's just connect at that point, since S03 was caused (indirectly maybe) by GC failing, is that correct?

Thanks,
David


----------



## unitron

Icarus said:


> I have an S3, TWC, Cisco TA.
> 
> I've always just rebooted when I saw the annoying running out of guide data and that's served me well up until now. Now I've got S03. Reboot, KS57, etc, none of that did anything of course, then I found this thread.
> 
> I've unplugged the Cisco TA and disconnected the wireless adaptor. Indexing advanced to now. I'm waiting to see if GC will advance as well. It's still saying Feb 27, but I haven't been disconnected for very long yet.
> 
> If GC advances, what's the next step? Try to connect? Restart?
> 
> If I got this right, I think it's just connect at that point, since S03 was caused (indirectly maybe) by GC failing, is that correct?
> 
> Thanks,
> David


You might want to consult the last several pages of this thread

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=420059


----------



## Icarus

unitron said:


> You might want to consult the last several pages of this thread
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=420059


That's 20 minutes of my life I'll never get back, fortunately, I'm watching paint dry.

GC Finished, it's now Loading info (loading 21%.)

Thanks,
-David


----------



## Teeps

Icarus said:


> That's 20 minutes of my life I'll never get back, fortunately, I'm watching paint dry.
> 
> GC Finished, it's now Loading info (loading 21%.)
> 
> Thanks,
> -David


If you want to keep the problem from happening in the future put the tuning adapter on a lamp timer. Set it to turn the power off for 4 hours a day.


----------



## Icarus

Teeps said:


> If you want to keep the problem from happening in the future put the tuning adapter on a lamp timer. Set it to turn the power off for 4 hours a day.


It finished, no S03, so thank you to those of you that figured this out and posted the solutions in this thread.

disconnecting the network adapter didn't pan out? Also, what about the channel lineup thing?

System Info still says "Programming Info To: Saturday April 21". What is it waiting for to update that now?

Thanks,
-David


----------



## Teeps

Icarus said:


> disconnecting the network adapter didn't pan out?
> Thanks,
> -David


That never did work for my S3.


----------



## Icarus

Teeps said:


> That never did work for my S3.


After I solved my S03 problem (letting GC finish), the to do list, etc still weren't updating, though the programming to date was now May something. I probably needed to leave the TA disconnected for a while, but I was impatient, so I ended up doing the channel lineup thing. I had to go through the Season Passes afterwards and for each one tell it to "record with these options".

Looking at System Info, after the channel lineup thing the next call isn't scheduled till tomorrow, GC hasn't updated since the channel lineup thing ran, but Indexing has updated to a recent time.

Other than by looking at System Info to see the GC time updated, is there any way to tell if GC is running properly?

I guess I just need that lamp timer.

-David


----------



## Teeps

Icarus said:


> Other than by looking at System Info to see the GC time updated, is there any way to tell if GC is running properly?
> -David


Other than you will not see the running out of guide data message; no, not that I'm aware of.



Icarus said:


> I guess I just need that lamp timer.
> -David


Yes you should.
$10 for a lamp timer will end the drama. My S3 likes to have the the t/a off line; powered off for 4 hours a day.

My S3's GC completes every other day. 
Indexing appears to be on its own schedule; so I don't pay it much attention. Long as GC completes every couple of days.


----------



## DougJohnson

Icarus said:


> Other than by looking at System Info to see the GC time updated, is there any way to tell if GC is running properly?
> 
> I guess I just need that lamp timer.
> 
> -David


Watch the GC, if it hasn't updated for a week, you should try the lamp timer. Have it turn the TA off for 4 hours at a time when you don't have any scheduled recordings, usually the very early morning, say 2am-6am.

I had the problem last October, used a timer for a month, then stopped. I've been getting GC's every day or two since November without the timer. It seems I had some sort of transient problem. You might have as well.

-- Doug


----------



## Icarus

I unplugged the usb cable to the t/a last night around 1AM. GC still hadn't completed at around 7:30AM when the next call was scheduled.

If I unplug the t/a's usb cable, I can still watch all non-sdv channels. Not sure if I can do that if I power the t/a off.

-David


----------



## questors

Icarus said:


> I unplugged the usb cable to the t/a last night around 1AM. GC still hadn't completed at around 7:30AM when the next call was scheduled.
> 
> If I unplug the t/a's usb cable, I can still watch all non-sdv channels. Not sure if I can do that if I power the t/a off.
> 
> -David


My experience has been that all of the non-SDV will record with the TA power unplugged. I just don't get the SDV chanels.


----------



## Icarus

GC finally finished at 1:15PM. The update was at 7:28AM, so I guess that was about 5.5+ hours? Not sure why it didn't finish between 1AM and 7:28AM update start time.

Maybe the update at 7:28AM restarted it so it was able to finally finish?

-David


----------



## WO312

Icarus said:


> I unplugged the usb cable to the t/a last night around 1AM. GC still hadn't completed at around 7:30AM when the next call was scheduled.
> 
> If I unplug the t/a's usb cable, I can still watch all non-sdv channels. Not sure if I can do that if I power the t/a off.
> 
> -David


I have a splitter in front of the TA. One feed goes to the TA and the other feed goes into the Tivo. That way I can power off the TA and the Tivo will still record any non-SDV channel.

Even so, I schedule my timer for when nothing is scheduled to be recorded. The TA turning on or off will break any recordings going on at the time in the Tivo.


----------



## sushikitten

UPDATE: Ever since we put the TA on a timer (2a-6a IIRC) we haven't had ANY issues! :up:


----------



## Teeps

sushikitten said:


> UPDATE: Ever since we put the TA on a timer (2a-6a IIRC) we haven't had ANY issues! :up:


Great news sushikitten.

I forget now, does your TiVo have the original hard drive or an upgrade?


----------



## Icarus

Got the timer and splitter installed. Timer's been installed, splitter just got here.

I noticed without the splitter, I could tune to broadcast channels, but nothing else (at least in the HD set of channels, didn't try others). With the splitter, I should be able to tune to any non-SDV channel when the TA is powered off.

Also I noticed that when the TA powers down or up, it stops any recording in progress and doesn't seem to resume it. Not a big deal for me, since it's not recording anything important at that point.

Anyway, hopefully with this setup, it won't need any more manual intervention.

Thanks,
-David


----------



## sushikitten

Teeps said:


> Great news sushikitten.
> 
> I forget now, does your TiVo have the original hard drive or an upgrade?


Original plus external 1TB hard drive.


----------



## Teeps

sushikitten said:


> Original plus external 1TB hard drive.


I had the same setup. Then the problem started (last June/July) a couple of weeks after Time Warner Torrance turned on SDV. When I was forced to use their Tuning Adapter, to view all "PAID for STATIONS."

As of now, I am not aware that either TiVo or Time Warner have "owned" this problem...
So here we are having to put up with missing a 3 to 5 hour recording block, daily, to get the TiVo to function....


----------



## tootal2

You dont have unplug the tuning adaptor everyday. i just do it once a week.
Also I switched over to windows media center with a ceton cable card adaptor in my living room. its been working good.

But I still like tivo better. But its nice having 6 tuners and 3 tb of drive space.

I still have my tivo hd runnig. I going to feel bad when i decard it and unplug it. i had it for 6 years.



Teeps said:


> I had the same setup. Then the problem started (last June/July) a couple of weeks after Time Warner Torrance turned on SDV. When I was forced to use their Tuning Adapter, to view all "PAID for STATIONS."
> 
> As of now, I am not aware that either TiVo or Time Warner have "owned" this problem...
> So here we are having to put up with missing a 3 to 5 hour recording block, daily, to get the TiVo to function....


----------



## [NG]Owner

I've been running fine for the last two months without anything. I had great success with blocking network access to the Tivo Mothership. Two months ago I removed the block due to an issue I thought I was having with Amazon (I wasn't, Amazon dropped a series I had paid for several years ago, that's why it wouldn't download). I haven't had nag screens since.

Just make sure that you have the network connection (preferably at the router) to the Mothership blocked for a minimum of two days (three is preferable) in a row sometime during the week. During that time, GC will update. After a while (if my experience is indicative) you can remove the block and GC will continue to update (until it doesn't again at some point in the future).

Easy-peasy.

[NG]Owner


----------



## ironmike

I have had this same problem for months, and unplugging the SVA (via lamp timer) for four hours a day fixed mine. Kudos to the forum folks who came up with this workaround.

I am very unhappy with Tivo tech support. They should have fixed the software problem that makes GC fail a LONG time ago. I've been a commercial mainframe software developer for 30+ years; if I supported my customers with bug fixes the way Tivo does with their (lack of) bug fixes, I would have been out of a job decades ago. I don't think Tivo has ANY competent Linux experts on staff anymore...why else would they have delayed fixing this problem for so long?


----------



## Teeps

ironmike said:


> I don't think Tivo has ANY competent Linux experts on staff anymore...
> 
> why else would they have delayed fixing this problem for so long?


Denial. (and not the river in Egypt.)

Also, it can speed good info when your location is included in the profile.


----------



## Teeps

[NG]Owner;9076098 said:


> Just make sure that you have the network connection (preferably at the router) to the Mothership blocked for a minimum of two days (three is preferable) in a row sometime during the week.
> Easy-peasy.
> 
> [NG]Owner


This strategy did not work on my S3; go figure.


----------



## Teeps

tootal2 said:


> But I still like tivo better.


I rest my case...

Are you following the Latest Ceton InfiniTV 4 Info Thread?
Not all peaches & cream over there... Hope you have continuing success with Ceton InfiniTV 4.


----------



## tootal2

Teeps said:


> I rest my case...
> 
> Are you following the Latest Ceton InfiniTV 4 Info Thread?
> Not all peaches & cream over there... Hope you have continuing success with Ceton InfiniTV 4.


Ceton is doing fine but microsoft doesnt seem to keep the tv guide updated. 
My guide only goes 5-12. also it took some time to fix the nvidia video driver flicker and lock up problem. And the wishlist on wmc is not as good as the one on tivo.

I use to only use wmc to play shows i downloaded from my tivo. now i use it for everything. i even play my 3d blu-rays on it.

still got my tivo hd running but havnt used it in a week.


----------



## Teeps

Bump to put thread back on first page of forum.

The tuning adapter connected to a lamp timer continues to prevent the "program info will runout on..." message, as GC completes almost daily.

Tootal2, 
How is the Ceton working for you, any problems?


----------



## tootal2

The ceton card is doing fine. but i hate the copy protection system on tbshd.
on tivo hd tbshd is not copy protected but on ceton its set to CGMS Protection protected-copyonce. and it cousing me some problems recording tbshd.



Teeps said:


> Bump to put thread back on first page of forum.
> 
> The tuning adapter connected to a lamp timer continues to prevent the "program info will runout on..." message, as GC completes almost daily.
> 
> Tootal2,
> How is the Ceton working for you, any problems?


----------



## schoolbus

Fortunately I found this thread. Unfortunately I had a reason to search for it.

I'm stuck in the Guided Setup LOOP 

What's the easiest way out? 

I am assuming none of the Kickstart codes will help? I tried #57 to no avail and just gave #58 a try, along with changing the setup to use Antenna Only (hoping this would reduce data to unpack). It's still "Preparing right now, so we'll see in the morning, but I don't have high hopes.

Here's my stats/info:
Series3
70 Season Passes
9/24/10 - upgraded to 1TB drive with winmfs (sorry don't know swap size  )
11/5/10 - added TWC cable cards / TA
Late 2011 - Tivo started giving me almost-daily messages about channel lineup change occurred, but then clicking through it basically said "never mind, you're using a tuning adapter". I never bothered to chase down that issue.
Spring 2012 - Started getting messages about running out of programming data. I merely checked the guide and saw data out 2 weeks so I thought it was some glitch. I basically ignored it. I think it occurred a few times over the months but shows kept recording so I didn't see any ill effects.
6/9/12 - I was traveling and went online to Mytivo to request to record Game 7 of the NBA East Playoffs as I was in a plane at the time and wanted to see it when I got home. It never recorded and then I started snooping around.
I found that the last call had failed due to Error S03. That's when I looked online and found this thread (and others). I checked my GC and it was 5/16/12. I saw references to running channel lineup to update the GC, which I did and am now stuck in this loop 

In hindsight, I would have done one of the clear/delete steps first, and/or disconnected internet or TA.

It's now been almost 2 years since I opened up my Tivo / used winmfs (ie I'm rusty), so what's the easiest way to get out of this loop? I don't seem to have an image from my drive, however I do have the original (250GB?) drive so I could copy from scratch all over again if I must. I saw reference here to adding/changing fakecall.tcl - what's that? It seems that would allow me not to lose all of my recordings, right? Any help would be much appreciated. My wife loves Tivo and needless to say she's the typical unhappy camper right about now. I did set her expectations pretty low though; that it might never work again.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## unitron

schoolbus said:


> Fortunately I found this thread. Unfortunately I had a reason to search for it.
> 
> I'm stuck in the Guided Setup LOOP
> 
> What's the easiest way out?
> 
> I am assuming none of the Kickstart codes will help? I tried #57 to no avail and just gave #58 a try, along with changing the setup to use Antenna Only (hoping this would reduce data to unpack). It's still "Preparing right now, so we'll see in the morning, but I don't have high hopes.
> 
> Here's my stats/info:
> Series3
> 70 Season Passes
> 9/24/10 - upgraded to 1TB drive with winmfs (sorry don't know swap size  )
> 11/5/10 - added TWC cable cards / TA
> Late 2011 - Tivo started giving me almost-daily messages about channel lineup change occurred, but then clicking through it basically said "never mind, you're using a tuning adapter". I never bothered to chase down that issue.
> Spring 2012 - Started getting messages about running out of programming data. I merely checked the guide and saw data out 2 weeks so I thought it was some glitch. I basically ignored it. I think it occurred a few times over the months but shows kept recording so I didn't see any ill effects.
> 6/9/12 - I was traveling and went online to Mytivo to request to record Game 7 of the NBA East Playoffs as I was in a plane at the time and wanted to see it when I got home. It never recorded and then I started snooping around.
> I found that the last call had failed due to Error S03. That's when I looked online and found this thread (and others). I checked my GC and it was 5/16/12. I saw references to running channel lineup to update the GC, which I did and am now stuck in this loop
> 
> In hindsight, I would have done one of the clear/delete steps first, and/or disconnected internet or TA.
> 
> It's now been almost 2 years since I opened up my Tivo / used winmfs (ie I'm rusty), so what's the easiest way to get out of this loop? I don't seem to have an image from my drive, however I do have the original (250GB?) drive so I could copy from scratch all over again if I must. I saw reference here to adding/changing fakecall.tcl - what's that? It seems that would allow me not to lose all of my recordings, right? Any help would be much appreciated. My wife loves Tivo and needless to say she's the typical unhappy camper right about now. I did set her expectations pretty low though; that it might never work again.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


If the original drive was a 250, then I'm guessing you've got a TCD648250B, the one with the display and buttons on the front.

You may need to disconnect the TA from the USB port and take both cable cards out (while the TiVo is unplugged), and then run through GS with just an antenna connected to see if it'll complete that.

Are you using wired Ethernet, wireless adapter, or telephone line for connecting to the mothership?

Considering what model you've got, you should also open it up and look at the power supply capacitors to make sure that's not a problem.

I can hook you up with a guy in Raleigh that can supply replacements cheap.

If you don't know which end of a soldering iron to hold he can probably do that part for you at a reasonable rate as well.


----------



## schoolbus

unitron said:


> If the original drive was a 250, then I'm guessing you've got a TCD648250B, the one with the display and buttons on the front.
> 
> You may need to disconnect the TA from the USB port and take both cable cards out (while the TiVo is unplugged), and then run through GS with just an antenna connected to see if it'll complete that.
> 
> Are you using wired Ethernet, wireless adapter, or telephone line for connecting to the mothership?
> 
> Considering what model you've got, you should also open it up and look at the power supply capacitors to make sure that's not a problem.
> 
> I can hook you up with a guy in Raleigh that can supply replacements cheap.
> 
> If you don't know which end of a soldering iron to hold he can probably do that part for you at a reasonable rate as well.


I was going off of memory on the drive size, but yes I believe that's the model you mention. Checking my account at tivo.com, I see the SN does start with 648. It does have lights and buttons on the front display.

I'll try with all of that disconnected and just antenna through GS to see if that helps, but again I don't expect it will. I tried running setup last night, but it failed again with S03, after doing Kickstart #58 and Antenna-only setup.

What issue does the capacitor problem usually create? I haven't read about that related to the issue I have. It sounds like maybe you're just proactively suggesting to check that too. I will while I'm at it. I have the soldering iron skills under control if it comes to that 

If I hadn't done anything, I think my machine would have continued to work itself out of the issue. I'm guess I did previously run out of programming and then a few days later it finally cleared GC on it's own, restarting the cycle. But alas, here I am...


----------



## unitron

schoolbus said:


> ...
> 
> What issue does the capacitor problem usually create? ...


Lots of sneaky ones you might not think were the power supply.

Like working fine until you put in a cable card and then crashing, leaving you thinking you've got a bad cable card.

Or random re-boots.

There's a Series 2 DirecTiVo model whose symptom was one tuner worked and the other one didn't, but there wasn't anything actually wrong with the tuner.

It's a known issue for S2 and S3 TiVos, so it needs to be eliminated very early in the troubleshooting process.

Go read the wikipedia page on "capacitor plague"

Then load this page

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/index.php?

click on the Search button on the top bar between New Posts and Quicklinks, enter "capacitor OR capacitors" and click "show posts"

and look at some of older results.


----------



## schoolbus

unitron said:


> Lots of sneaky ones you might not think were the power supply.
> 
> Like working fine until you put in a cable card and then crashing, leaving you thinking you've got a bad cable card.
> 
> Or random re-boots.
> 
> There's a Series 2 DirecTiVo model whose symptom was one tuner worked and the other one didn't, but there wasn't anything actually wrong with the tuner.
> 
> It's a known issue for S2 and S3 TiVos, so it needs to be eliminated very early in the troubleshooting process.
> 
> Go read the wikipedia page on "capacitor plague"
> 
> Then load this page
> 
> http : // www . tivocommunity . com/ tivo-vb/ index.php?
> 
> click on the Search button on the top bar between New Posts and Quicklinks, enter "capacitor OR capacitors" and click "show posts"
> 
> and look at some of older results.


Thanks unitron, will definitely check that out when I open up the box.


----------



## schoolbus

unitron,

sure enough, this one cap is bulging and oozed some material out. All others look good. It's the C701 2200uf 25v. See attached photo.

I'll happily accept your Raleigh hook-up for an inexpensive replacement 

Of course I still need to break out of the guided setup loop. I don't expect this alone will do it. I tried restarting without tuning adapter connected and cable cards removed, just to antenna, no dice.

I've been reading up on fakecall.tcl, but I would be in need of an overview on how to get that running - it seems one of many other parts and I only need to trick the system to thinking it has done a successful setup which it seems that will do. Anyone have a "fakecall.tcl operation for Dummies?"  I haven't been successful searching.

and yes I do have TCD648250B.

Thanks again!


----------



## unitron

schoolbus said:


> unitron,
> 
> sure enough, this one cap is bulging and oozed some material out. All others look good. It's the C701 2200uf 25v. See attached photo.
> 
> I'll happily accept your Raleigh hook-up for an inexpensive replacement
> 
> Of course I still need to break out of the guided setup loop. I don't expect this alone will do it. I tried restarting without tuning adapter connected and cable cards removed, just to antenna, no dice.
> 
> I've been reading up on fakecall.tcl, but I would be in need of an overview on how to get that running - it seems one of many other parts and I only need to trick the system to thinking it has done a successful setup which it seems that will do. Anyone have a "fakecall.tcl operation for Dummies?"  I haven't been successful searching.
> 
> and yes I do have TCD648250B.
> 
> Thanks again!


Just PM'ed you.


----------



## unitron

schoolbus said:


> unitron,
> 
> sure enough, this one cap is bulging and oozed some material out. All others look good. It's the C701 2200uf 25v. See attached photo.
> 
> I'll happily accept your Raleigh hook-up for an inexpensive replacement
> 
> Of course I still need to break out of the guided setup loop. I don't expect this alone will do it. I tried restarting without tuning adapter connected and cable cards removed, just to antenna, no dice.
> 
> I've been reading up on fakecall.tcl, but I would be in need of an overview on how to get that running - it seems one of many other parts and I only need to trick the system to thinking it has done a successful setup which it seems that will do. Anyone have a "fakecall.tcl operation for Dummies?"  I haven't been successful searching.
> 
> and yes I do have TCD648250B.
> 
> Thanks again!


Since you have to take the power supply out anyway*, take it with you to the meetup and get him to help you pick out all the caps across the 5V and 12V output lines, i.e., connected directly between one of those and ground, and replace them all now and be done with it. Probably a max of 4, 2 per rail.

*In addition to the obvious screws holding it down, there's one you take out from the outside back panel that goes into the AC jack, and it needs a smaller Torx bit, like an 8 or 9.


----------



## schoolbus

unitron said:


> Just PM'ed you.


Thanks, I tried to PM you back, but alas my post count is not enough. Hey look, here's one more


----------



## schoolbus

unitron said:


> Since you have to take the power supply out anyway*, take it with you to the meetup and get him to help you pick out all the caps across the 5V and 12V output lines, i.e., connected directly between one of those and ground, and replace them all now and be done with it. Probably a max of 4, 2 per rail.
> 
> *In addition to the obvious screws holding it down, there's one you take out from the outside back panel that goes into the AC jack, and it needs a smaller Torx bit, like an 8 or 9.


Thanks for the pointer on removing it. Yeah I may want to do those others as well. Searching really showed that the one that failed for me is the common one, but wouldn't hurt to do while in there. I'll see what else he has. Thanks again.


----------



## unitron

schoolbus said:


> Thanks, I tried to PM you back, but alas my post count is not enough. Hey look, here's one more


I included my email address so you didn't have to PM me back to get in touch.

Got an email back from the guy, he's waitin' to hear from you.


----------



## schoolbus

unitron said:


> I included my email address so you didn't have to PM me back to get in touch.
> 
> Got an email back from the guy, he's waitin' to hear from you.


Thanks, we're in touch now. Appreciate the contact.


----------



## tootal2

My tuning adaptor has been unpluged for 6 hours and gc file is still set to friday june 8 9:45 am. I dont want restart it. I guess its my fault since i have not used my tivo in a long time.


----------



## WO312

tootal2 said:


> My tuning adaptor has been unpluged for 6 hours and gc file is still set to friday june 8 9:45 am. I dont want restart it. I guess its my fault since i have not used my tivo in a long time.


This will be an interesting experiment. Let's see how long it takes to update.


----------



## tootal2

WO312 said:


> This will be an interesting experiment. Let's see how long it takes to update.


The gc: updated at sunday june 24 5:50 pm guess i need a timer.
But i might stop using it soon.


----------



## Teeps

tootal2 said:


> The gc: updated at sunday june 24 5:50 pm guess i need a timer.
> But i might stop using it soon.


As GC usually completes every other day; I've seen it take up to 3 days to complete, with the t/a on a 3 hour daily time out(power off.)

tootal2,
Happy that you are having success with the Ceton card..

The problems with the TiVo XL4 seem to be subsiding, so I'll likely get one soon.


----------



## tootal2

Teeps said:


> As GC usually completes every other day; I've seen it take up to 3 days to complete, with the t/a on a 3 hour daily time out(power off.)
> 
> tootal2,
> Happy that you are having success with the Ceton card..
> 
> The problems with the TiVo XL4 seem to be subsiding, so I'll likely get one soon.


ceton works fine does the tivo xl4 have ota tuners? i wont buy a tivo without ota tuners


----------



## WO312

tootal2 said:


> ceton works fine does the tivo xl4 have ota tuners? i wont buy a tivo without ota tuners


Yes, I know you need OTA. I see your posts on AVS Forum. 

And I'm happy with my Ceton also.

Edit: My bad. I guess it's another thread on TCF where you are talking about meTV. But I still see you on AVS.


----------



## tootal2

Im putting a 3 tb in my computer just for recording shows with ceton. I hope 6 tuners a 3 tb is enough to record the summer olypics.

I think this will be my last week of tivo hd in the living room. But the second tivo hd will still be used.



WO312 said:


> Yes, I know you need OTA. I see your posts on AVS Forum.
> 
> And I'm happy with my Ceton also.
> 
> Edit: My bad. I guess it's another thread on TCF where you are talking about meTV. But I still see you on AVS.


----------



## steffen707

unitron said:


> If the original drive was a 250, then I'm guessing you've got a TCD648250B, the one with the display and buttons on the front.
> 
> You may need to disconnect the TA from the USB port and take both cable cards out (while the TiVo is unplugged), and then run through GS with just an antenna connected to see if it'll complete that.
> 
> Are you using wired Ethernet, wireless adapter, or telephone line for connecting to the mothership?
> 
> Considering what model you've got, you should also open it up and look at the power supply capacitors to make sure that's not a problem.
> 
> I can hook you up with a guy in Raleigh that can supply replacements cheap.
> 
> If you don't know which end of a soldering iron to hold he can probably do that part for you at a reasonable rate as well.


I'm in a similar pickle, I have a tivo hd that i upgraded the drive on. i started getting the s03, i have a cable card and a tuning adapter. I read to try the guided setup, now i'm in the loop (because i failed to read that it can cause these issues). I have a tcd652160.

I'm currently doing a dd_rescue copy of my drive, but I doubt that's going to fix the guided setup loop problem right? Is the root problem the tuning adapter? Also, if you pull the cable card out and then complete guided setup, will i have to have a cable company tech guy come set up the cable card again?


----------



## steffen707

tootal2 said:


> I would just restore the image. It will not take long to remake your season passes.
> 
> My tivo says it will run out of program info in 3 days. Think i will get that ceton cable card tuner for my desktop computer.


What do you mean restore the image? I've got mfslive, i've moded several tivo's but i can't find on the forum what i'm suppose to do to "restore the image". I'm fine with remaking all my season passes, i just don't want to lose all my shows. Will "restoring the image" make me lose my shows, or cable card settings?


----------



## unitron

steffen707 said:


> *i posted this in the first thread,
> *...


And that's where I posted an answer to you.


----------



## steffen707

unitron said:


> And that's where I posted an answer to you.


Thanks unitron.


----------



## Rodney

I have two Series 3 HD TiVo's and one has spontaneously started having this guide data problem, and unplugging the SVA for four hours today fixed it. Thanks to the folks that figured out the workaround.
Now how do we get TiVo to correct the issue? And what is the underlying cause? The two Tivo's I have are identical and both have the 1TB "My DVR Expander" added to them.

-Rodney


----------



## steffen707

Has anybody had an s03 error, and then unplugged the tuning adapter for 4 hours, and get a successful guide download/load, or have all of you guys tried the 4 hour tuning adapter off method BEFORE getting an s03 error?


----------



## Icarus

steffen707 said:


> Has anybody had an s03 error, and then unplugged the tuning adapter for 4 hours, and get a successful guide download/load, or have all of you guys tried the 4 hour tuning adapter off method BEFORE getting an s03 error?


None of the above.

Found a way to solve S03 (there are other methods listed in the thread), then got a lamp timer to prevent it from happening again.

Most people are not going to do the lamp timer thing unless they know they have to. It doesn't affect everybody.

-David


----------



## Teeps

Rodney said:


> Now how do we get TiVo to correct the issue? -Rodney


Simple it's not going to happen. 
TiVo, over the course of the last year has proven that they could care less about S3 users. If they did, this thread would not be active over a year later.
And, all S3 users with the problem would have been provided with a Premier XL or XL4 either for direct exchange or reduced price with a life time subscription.



Rodney said:


> And what is the underlying cause?
> -Rodney


I don't know for certain; only that the S03 error problem started within 2 weeks, after the tuning adapter was inserted in the cable tv stream and connected to TiVo. 
Early on TiVo (customer service) came up with several excuses. Like wrong cable line up, bad hard drive, cabling, tuning adapter, etc... Then a few stop gap countermeasures, that appeared to work, but were only temporary.
In the end the lamp timer is the only solution that works. But comes with the price tag of a 4 hour block of time in which TiVo cannot record programs; on any channel that is encrypted.


----------



## questors

The lamp timer solution did not work well for me. It was hit or miss as far as the TA being recognized after it was powered up again. I have set my router to deny Internet access to the TiVo for three consecutive days each week. GC seems to always complete on the second day and I haven't missed any programming.


----------



## Teeps

questors said:


> The lamp timer solution did not work well for me. It was hit or miss as far as the TA being recognized after it was powered up again. I have set my router to deny Internet access to the TiVo for three consecutive days each week. GC seems to always complete on the second day and I haven't missed any programming.


Interesting... I have not had such a problem. 
I guess what ever works for you is a solution...

Did you try swapping:
USB cables?
Power supply?
Tuning adapters?
Cable cards?


----------



## questors

Teeps said:


> Interesting... I have not had such a problem.
> I guess what ever works for you is a solution...
> 
> Did you try swapping:
> USB cables?
> Power supply?
> Tuning adapters?
> Cable cards?


No, i didn't try any swapping. What was happening was that when the TA powered up again, I would get the yellow light blinking and TiVo reported "no tuning adapter connected." If I disconnected and reconnected the USB cable the light went steady and all was good again.


----------



## Icarus

Teeps said:


> Interesting... I have not had such a problem.


I have, but it's rare. Normally it takes my S3 about five minutes after the power is re-applied to recognize that the tuning adapter is present.

Once in a while, not very often, it won't recognize that the TA is present. If I'm home, I can just power cycle the TA, that fixes it.

-David


----------



## steffen707

Just to update you guys, after being stuck in guided setup with s03 I let tivo sit unplugged from the TA and internet for 3 days, still got s03 after I tried to complete guided setup.

I wiped the 2TB drive and reset it up from the original 160gig, now I gotta redo all my season passes.


----------



## pninen

For the last year, I've had to unplug the tuning adapter and ethernet for several hours once a week to let GC complete. I do it as soon as the message about program guide info running low appears.

However, today, even tho I unplugged the tuning adapter yesterday, and GC completed yesterday, program guide data won't load. I get S03 errors.

Now what do I do?


----------



## unitron

pninen said:


> For the last year, I've had to unplug the tuning adapter and ethernet for several hours once a week to let GC complete. I do it as soon as the message about program guide info running low appears.
> 
> However, today, even tho I unplugged the tuning adapter yesterday, and GC completed yesterday, program guide data won't load. I get S03 errors.
> 
> Now what do I do?


http://texasblindjack.com/2010/10/20/how-to-remove-the-s03-error-from-your-tivo/


----------



## pninen

Ok, I initiated the "clear program info and todo list".

Message on screen says it may take up to 1 hour. 

It has been more than 1.5 hours so far. How long should I wait?


----------



## Icarus

pninen said:


> Ok, I initiated the "clear program info and todo list".
> 
> Message on screen says it may take up to 1 hour.
> 
> It has been more than 1.5 hours so far. How long should I wait?


It will take a really long time, it's garbage collecting. Don't interrupt it. Just let it run, even overnight. This is your only chance to get rid of S03 now. Otherwise you have to restore from a backup and start over.

Get a lamp timer for the TA so it goes offline every night.

-David


----------



## pninen

Ok, I let it run overnight. Now its back to looking like a TiVo. Program guide info is current. 

Todo list is empty. 

If I open a season pass and ask to see upcoming episodes, it always says there are none. 

The season passes are all there, but don't seem to be active. 

I've read about this symptom, so followed what I had read about this before. I opened each SP, changed something, and closed it.

What now? Did I do the right thing re the season passes? Do I wait more? How long?


----------



## pninen

Ok, I gave up and deleted then reeentered all my season passes. Took 1 hr.

Now my S3 is working correctly again. Sigh.

Tonite I ordered a premiere XL4.


----------



## Teeps

pninen said:


> Tonite I ordered a premiere XL4.


Don't dump the S3 until you make sure the XL4 works.

I've been on the fence since late last year over the purchase of the TiVo Elite/XL4. 
At first due to problems reported on the Premier Forum, (which are mostly quiet now.) 
And currently because of functionality issues with streaming and/or transfer of copy protected programs.


----------



## WO312

pninen said:


> Ok, I gave up and deleted then reeentered all my season passes. Took 1 hr.
> 
> Now my S3 is working correctly again. Sigh.
> 
> Tonite I ordered a premiere XL4.


I suspect that if you had given it time everything would have been O.K. I'm thinking it needed time to index the data, or whatever the correct term is. But who knows??

I don't like to re-enter my SP's because so many of them don't have upcoming episodes at this point.


----------



## pninen

Teeps said:


> Don't dump the S3 until you make sure the XL4 works.


Right on! Had some trouble getting the XL4 going, but now have it working fine. Will shut down the old S3 after a week or so of continued success.

I self-installed cable card & tuning adapter on the XL4, and spent two hours on the phone with Time Warner trying to get it to work. (Nothing ever changes!) They kept doing stupid stuff like telling me to unplug the TiVo and plug it in again, etc etc. Had to listen to 'em trying to tell me that I had wired up the tuning adapter wrong. The TW guy on the phone actually explained to me that the coax doesn't need to go to the tuning adapter, because the TA communicates over USB. Yea. I explained to him how it works, but he just kept saying that's not what his supervisor told him. I asked to speak to the supervisor. He declared that I had to wait two days and let a guy come out to my house. No alternative. I told 'em it was obviously a bad cable card, and that is indeed what it turned out to be.

I've had a similar experience with every TiVo I've ever bought. I think this is my 4th one. Would have figured Time Warner people would get smarter over time, but no.


----------



## unitron

pninen said:


> Right on! Had some trouble getting the XL4 going, but now have it working fine. Will shut down the old S3 after a week or so of continued success...


If it's not already lifetimed, call up and threaten to do so to get PLS for $99.

Should add more than $100 to its resale value.


----------



## Teeps

pninen said:


> Would have figured Time Warner people would get smarter over time, but no.


They do get educated in time. 
Problem is the really good ones leave for a better position. Or, stay a while and get burnt out; either way they all leave sooner or later.

That's just the nature of call centers in general.


----------



## dpalmi

I need your opinion please.

Specs/info: TivoHD, original internal hard drive, PLS (Product Lifetime Service), external WD 1TB Tivo Expander drive, Time Warner Cable, Cisco Tuning adapter, 3 year extended Tivo warranty.

I currently have a TivoHD that has been having the program info will run out issue for about a month. Up to now I have been power cycling my Tivo every couple weeks to resolve. I can see my GC is getting stuck and not updating like it should.

When I originally purchased this Tivo, I also got the extended 3 warranty direct from Tivo. That warranty expires in November of this year.

Do you think this issue is something that should/would be covered under the Tivo extended warranty?

I am thinking since there is no official fix from Tivo and it cant really be fixed, they might send me a replacement to resolve this issue. I am thinking the replacement might be a Premiere. Am I crazy?

Before I spend hours and hours trying 18 different suggestions from Tivo to fix the issue first, I wanted to ask your opinion if you think a replacement Premiere from Tivo would be likely.

If it is likely, I am willing to jump through the hoops that Tivo will make me jump through to try and troubleshoot first. But if ultimately Tivo is going to tell me Sorry, there is nothing we can do  I will just put a lamp timer on my Tuning Adapter to make my Tivo work.

I have already contacted Tivo about the issue last month and have an incident #. Their first response was to have me repeat the Guided Setup  which I did. That worked for 2 weeks and the issue came back as I knew it would. I then contacted them again and now they want me to perform a Clear program information & To Do List. I know that is much more involved because I have to re-create my Season Passes and will get double folders/etc

So what do you think?

Thanks,

Dan


----------



## WO312

My guess is that it wouldn't hurt to play along if you think you MIGHT get a Premiere.

You have obviously done your homework so you know what to expect with the HD. Only you can decide what you want to do. But I suppose if I had a 3 year warranty that I paid for I would want to get something out of it for an obvious problem.


----------



## wtherrell

pninen said:


> Right on! Had some trouble getting the XL4 going, but now have it working fine. Will shut down the old S3 after a week or so of continued success.
> 
> I self-installed cable card & tuning adapter on the XL4, and spent two hours on the phone with Time Warner trying to get it to work. (Nothing ever changes!) They kept doing stupid stuff like telling me to unplug the TiVo and plug it in again, etc etc. Had to listen to 'em trying to tell me that I had wired up the tuning adapter wrong. The TW guy on the phone actually explained to me that the coax doesn't need to go to the tuning adapter, because the TA communicates over USB. Yea. I explained to him how it works, but he just kept saying that's not what his supervisor told him. I asked to speak to the supervisor. He declared that I had to wait two days and let a guy come out to my house. No alternative. I told 'em it was obviously a bad cable card, and that is indeed what it turned out to be.
> 
> I've had a similar experience with every TiVo I've ever bought. I think this is my 4th one. Would have figured Time Warner people would get smarter over time, but no.


Actually, the coax does not need to come from the TA to the TIVO. I have one coax feed to the TA and another separate coax feed to the TIVO. The only connection from my TA to my TIVO is the USB. Seems to work better that way. AIUI, The TA receives the current channel map from TW over its coax and feeds the info to the TIVO over the USB. The TIVO then uses that info to tune the proper frequency from the coax that is feeding it. That's probably the misunderstanding on the part of the TW guy.


----------



## Teeps

wtherrell said:


> Actually, the coax does not need to come from the TA to the TIVO. I have one coax feed to the TA and another separate coax feed to the TIVO. The only connection from my TA to my TIVO is the USB. Seems to work better that way.


In what way do you see an improvement?



wtherrell said:


> AIUI, The TA receives the current channel map from TW over its coax and feeds the info to the TIVO over the USB. The TIVO then uses that info to tune the proper frequency from the coax that is feeding it.


Where did you get the info about channel lineup delivery, to TiVo, via USB?
Thought the USB connection between TiVo and T/A was for 2 way communication back to the cable co head end transmission equipment.


----------



## WO312

One improvement with a direct coax feed to the Tivo is that you can still record non-SDV channels when the TA is turned off. If the coax feed comes from the TA you lose everything when the TA is turned off.

So by default it has to be that the channel lineup info for the Tivo comes thru the USB.

I have had my Tivo hooked up this way seems like forever.

We had a discussion about this way back in the thread, IIRC.


----------



## Teeps

WO312 said:


> One improvement with a direct coax feed to the Tivo is that you can still record non-SDV channels when the TA is turned off. If the coax feed comes from the TA you lose everything when the TA is turned off.


I wonder if, additionally, there is less signal loss when bypassing the T/A.
That alone would be worth the addition of a splitter at the incoming side of the T/A. (which I have done to my setup over the weekend; using -3.5db two way splitter. I also capped the unused T/A jack with a 75 ohm termination.) So far it is working as expected.



WO312 said:


> So by default it has to be that the channel lineup info for the Tivo comes thru the USB.


I would like to read an official explanation on this subject.



WO312 said:


> We had a discussion about this way back in the thread, IIRC.


I thought so too. But couldn't remember which thread it was in...

Here's a link from cablelabs tuning adapter faq: http://www.cablelabs.com/opencable/udcp/downloads/Switched-Digital-Video-Tuning-Adapter-FAQ.pdf
No where do they indicate how the channel lineup is delivered to TiVo(or "other" UDCP devices.)

Seems to me that TiVo could add the bidirectional function if they wanted to... maybe the Series 5?


----------



## DougJohnson

I had the problem of delayed GC and the TiVo complaining about running out of guide information last October. I put the TA on a timer and all was well. I took the TA off the timer last November and all continued to be well. Until last night.

The complaint about guide info popped up. I checked the GC and it had last run 11 days ago. Pulled the power on the TA and GC happened within 4 hours. Plugged the TA back in. I'll watch the GC for a while to see if it happens again. Hey, maybe it is a seasonal thing. 

-- Doug

OLED S3 1TB Motorola TA Time Warner Dallas.


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## tootal2

I havent had any problems with the gc file since i moved my tivo to my bedroom. i made my tivo cable only in my bedroom and i use a wireless bridge for the internet that only works when the tv is on.

i put the wireless bridge on a smart strip so i can sleep without all thioes leds on.



DougJohnson said:


> I had the problem of delayed GC and the TiVo complaining about running out of guide information last October. I put the TA on a timer and all was well. I took the TA off the timer last November and all continued to be well. Until last night.
> 
> The complaint about guide info popped up. I checked the GC and it had last run 11 days ago. Pulled the power on the TA and GC happened within 4 hours. Plugged the TA back in. I'll watch the GC for a while to see if it happens again. Hey, maybe it is a seasonal thing.
> 
> -- Doug
> 
> OLED S3 1TB Motorola TA Time Warner Dallas.


----------



## Teeps

tootal2 said:


> i made my tivo cable only in my bedroom


Does that mean you are not using a tuning adapter on the TiVo anymore?

I use a black Sharpie to "dull" the led light emitted.


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## tootal2

Im still using the tuning adaptor. tivo wont work without it. I have no idea why my gc problem went away after i moved it.



Teeps said:


> Does that mean you are not using a tuning adapter on the TiVo anymore?
> 
> I use a black Sharpie to "dull" the led light emitted.


----------



## unitron

tootal2 said:


> Im still using the tuning adaptor. tivo wont work without it. I have no idea why my gc problem went away after i moved it.


It sounds like that restricted internet access may have something to do with it.


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## Bob723

Looking for advice. I'm SO tired of the "program info will run out" issue with my HD TiVo - TCD 652160. It is at the point where I have to reboot weekly & it often takes more than 1 reboot to fix it. I've tried a timer on the TA but that results in a pink screen & the TiVo freezes up. The TiVo also has an external hard drive. I'm thinking about 2 options 1) Replace the current internal hard drive with a new, larger drive & eliminate the external drive; 2) Get a new Premier 2-tuner unit. I'm concerned that replacing the hard drive will not resolve the "program info will run out" issue &, therefore, the better option may be to change to a Premier as I am not aware of them having this issue. I plan to move to the country in a couple of years (no cable available) & would prefer to have a TiVo that gets OTA - thus the reason for the 2 tuner Premier (would love to get a 4 tuner unit though). Thoughts anyone?


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## AndrewWK

HISTORY:
I have experienced the exact same issue as everyone else in this thread, although my current symptoms are a bit different. I have a TivoHD TCD652160, WD expander, m-card and Cisco TA for my NC TWC cable connection. I started having issues with guide data running low messages over the last month. Initially they seemed to resolve with rebooting, but the issue progressed and I started receiving generic call failure messages. Then the S03 error started showing up. 

PARTIAL RESOLUTION:
I contacted Tivo support and they were of no help and led me to believe I had a hardware issue with the drive in the Tivo or the expander. I followed their suggestions of deleting many of my recordings and clearing thumb ratings and suggestions, followed by a kickstart 57, which did nothing. Then, after further internet research I found suggestions to clear the program information and to do list, which I did. This resolved the S03 error and allowed me to download and load data successfully. Oddly enough, it left the season passes associated with recordings I still had on the box (not sure if this is standard behavior). So I now have the following:

Program information to: Sunday, October 28, 2012
GC: Sunday October 14 7:49am
indexing: Sunday October 14 7:44am
Guide View Cache:
Cache To: Sunday October 21 2:00pm
Status: Idle, since... Sunday October 14 5:59pm

THE CURRENT ISSUE:
I can manually record stuff I see in the guide and I can add season passes this way, but existing or season passes I re-added via the guide show "no upcoming episodes". Also, if I "Search by Title" the Tivo shows nothing, as if it still has no data loaded. The recordings I have added individually work fine though. Any suggestions on the next step? Should I perform another clear of the "program information and to do list"? Will simply disconnecting the TA for a bit help the Tivo right itself? I'm ordering a lamp timer for the TA now, as I just found this thread.


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## DougJohnson

AndrewWK said:


> Will simply disconnecting the TA for a bit help the Tivo itself?


It should. Either pull the power on the TA or the USB cable for 6 hours or so. Try to find a time when you have nothing on the to-do list. -- Doug


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## DougJohnson

Bob723 said:


> I'm concerned that replacing the hard drive will not resolve the "program info will run out" issue &, therefore, the better option may be to change to a Premier as I am not aware of them having this issue.


The only effect the hard drive seems to have on the problem is the amount of space. The problem does not seem to occur on TiVos with standard space. Larger drives, either internal or external, seem to be a requirement to have the problem.

One thing you can try is to disconnect your TiVo from the Internet for a couple of days. You can do this by unplugging your TiVo's Ethernet cable or wireless adapter. -- Doug


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## Teeps

Bob723 said:


> I plan to move to the country in a couple of years (no cable available) & would prefer to have a TiVo that gets OTA - thus the reason for the 2 tuner Premier (would love to get a 4 tuner unit though). Thoughts anyone?


Options, as I see it; based on your situation as explained above:
Take current TiVo off line; buy a XL4 and enjoy TiVo until you move, then sell the XL4. 
Also: TiVo will sell you a life sub on the premier for $99, if you buy the XL4 from TiVo. 
Obtain a cable co DVR and suffer with the shortcomings until you move.
Continue the current program reboot, deny T/A power or disconnect USB or Either Net connection as Doug suggests.


----------



## Teeps

DougJohnson said:


> The only effect the hard drive seems to have on the problem is the amount of space. The problem does not seem to occur on TiVos with standard space. Larger drives, either internal or external, seem to be a requirement to have the problem.
> 
> One thing you can try is to disconnect your TiVo from the Internet for a couple of days. You can do this by unplugging your TiVo's Ethernet cable or wireless adapter. -- Doug


Yes; this was/is the problem with my S3-OLED.
Before, with a 1TB expander and continued after 2TB DVR_Dude internal upgrade drive was installed.(TiVo said the drive(s) were failing)


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## DougJohnson

Teeps said:


> Also: TiVo will sell you a life sub on the premier for $99, if you buy the XL4 from TiVo.


Do you have a reference for that? I can't find it on their site but would be very interested. Thanks, Doug


----------



## Bob723

I can't get the unit to record programs since I started this latest reboot mess. I called TiVo today & they ended up offering an exchange. Cost would be $149 for a refurbished HD & $199 for lifetime service for a total of $348. I ended up taking Teeps advice & ordered a new Premier XL4. $399.99 for the DVR & $399.99 for lifetime. I can't wait to be free of the "Program info will run out" headache - and am definitely looking forward to all the new features. I called Charter to schedule the cable card install and they told me I can transfer the card to the new unit myself and just call them to activate - that was definitely good news. Thanks to all who provided input. The old unit has lifetime so, if I choose, maybe I can sell it and get a little money. I think tonight I will try one last ditch effort of clearing everything, disconnecting the external drive and kickstart 57 to keep it going for at least the time being.


----------



## Teeps

DougJohnson said:


> Do you have a reference for that? I can't find it on their site but would be very interested. Thanks, Doug


You have to ask: I called TiVo sales about the purchase of a Premier XL4, last month. 
During the conversation, before committing to a purchase, I asked what it would cost to convert my S3-OLED to life time sub; without hesitation the agent said $99.
That, sealed the deal.
Purchases made.

To add, 2 days later they dropped the price on the Elite $49. So, I called and asked for the discount... score! 
Instant price drop given for the asking.


----------



## DougJohnson

Teeps said:


> During the conversation, before committing to a purchase, I asked what it would cost to convert my S3-OLED to life time sub; without hesitation the agent said $99.


I'm confused. Was the $99 lifetime on the S3-OLED or the XL4?
Thanks,
Doug


----------



## unitron

Teeps said:


> You have to ask: I called TiVo sales about the purchase of a Premier XL4, last month.
> During the conversation, before committing to a purchase, I asked what it would cost to convert my S3-OLED to life time sub; without hesitation the agent said $99.
> That, sealed the deal.
> Purchases made.
> 
> To add, 2 days later they dropped the price on the Elite $49. So, I called and asked for the discount... score!
> Instant price drop given for the asking.


You seem to have confused getting lifetime on an S3 of some kind when buying an S4 of some kind with getting lifetime on an S4 when buying a more expensive S4.

Only on the S3 will you get the $99 deal.


----------



## Teeps

DougJohnson said:


> I'm confused. Was the $99 lifetime on the S3-OLED or the XL4?
> Thanks,
> Doug


The $99 life time was on my S3.
The leverage(?) came with the potential of purchase of a XL4; which I bought during that call along with the life time for $99 on the S3.


----------



## mdbundy

questors said:


> The lamp timer solution did not work well for me. It was hit or miss as far as the TA being recognized after it was powered up again. I have set my router to deny Internet access to the TiVo for three consecutive days each week. GC seems to always complete on the second day and I haven't missed any programming.


Questors - out if curiosity were you able to set your router up on a schedule to do this, or do you do this manually each week? I have been manually unplugging my TA every other week or so to manage the problem because I don't want to deal with daily messages regarding the TA, but would love to try denying my TiVo Internet connectivity even for five days out of the week. I have a Linksys router but don't see any obvious way of scheduling these kind of rules.


----------



## questors

mdbundy said:


> Questors - out if curiosity were you able to set your router up on a schedule to do this, or do you do this manually each week? I have been manually unplugging my TA every other week or so to manage the problem because I don't want to deal with daily messages regarding the TA, but would love to try denying my TiVo Internet connectivity even for five days out of the week. I have a Linksys router but don't see any obvious way of scheduling these kind of rules.


Yes, I set up a schedule. I have a D-Link router and there is an Advanced tab, under that is Access Control and you can set a policy by IP by days of the week. I have mine set to deny all access to the TiVo on Thursday though Saturday. Two days without access seems to be enough to let GC complete. It is easy to enable or disable the policy once you set it up. I first set it up when I went on a three week vacation and it has worked fine since.


----------



## tootal2

I had my tivo on a wireless bridge plugged in to a smart strip. So tivo could not update for days sometimes and i had no gc problem.

I unplugged my last tivo yesterday after i got my ceton echo



questors said:


> Yes, I set up a schedule. I have a D-Link router and there is an Advanced tab, under that is Access Control and you can set a policy by IP by days of the week. I have mine set to deny all access to the TiVo on Thursday though Saturday. Two days without access seems to be enough to let GC complete. It is easy to enable or disable the policy once you set it up. I first set it up when I went on a three week vacation and it has worked fine since.


----------



## mdbundy

questors said:


> Yes, I set up a schedule. I have a D-Link router and there is an Advanced tab, under that is Access Control and you can set a policy by IP by days of the week. I have mine set to deny all access to the TiVo on Thursday though Saturday. Two days without access seems to be enough to let GC complete. It is easy to enable or disable the policy once you set it up. I first set it up when I went on a three week vacation and it has worked fine since.


Thanks questors. I have mine (a Linksys router) set up to deny the Tivo access Monday thru Thursday. At least on this first cycle GC did not complete. (I thought maybe it had b/c I wasn't getting the "program info will run out" warnings but I just tried to schedule a season pass and it told me I'm out of program info). I did notice that the Tivo failed to phone home when I checked in the middle of the week but I'll have to keep playing with it.

Thanks for the idea and help setting this up!


----------



## mdbundy

As a follow up - preventing my TiVo from phoning home is now allowing garbage collection to complete. It appears to happen about 24 hours after blocking access. 

Thanks again for this suggestion. Works better for my household than a lamp timer would!


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## WO312

mdbundy said:


> As a follow up - preventing my TiVo from phoning home is now allowing garbage collection to complete. It appears to happen about 24 hours after blocking access.
> 
> Thanks again for this suggestion. Works better for my household than a lamp timer would!


Super that it's working for you. I have been on a timer for a long time now and it works great also. 4 hours every night and GC updates every other day like clockwork.


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## unitron

You'd think the people here who bought TiVos and pay the subscription fee every month would have dug up enough clues by now for TiVo to figure out what the problem is and come up with a fix.

We call it a subscription, but technically it's not to the guide data, it's to the "TiVo Service".

So regardless of the hardware one purchased upon which to receive the service, one should be equally deserving of the service working properly.


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## Teeps

WO312 said:


> Super that it's working for you. I have been on a timer for a long time now and it works great also. 4 hours every night and GC updates every other day like clockwork.


Roger that!



unitron said:


> We call it a subscription, but technically it's not to the guide data, it's to the "TiVo Service".
> 
> So regardless of the hardware one purchased upon which to receive the service, one should be equally deserving of the service working properly.


Totally agree.
But, TiVo has taken the position that, upgraded units are the only ones with the problem.

Even though my S3-OLED had the problem before upgrading the internal drive.


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## questors

A timer on the tuning adapter didn't work for me. When the tuning adapter powered up it just blinked until I rebooted the TiVo.


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## mdbundy

unitron said:


> You'd think the people here who bought TiVos and pay the subscription fee every month would have dug up enough clues by now for TiVo to figure out what the problem is and come up with a fix.
> 
> We call it a subscription, but technically it's not to the guide data, it's to the "TiVo Service".
> 
> So regardless of the hardware one purchased upon which to receive the service, one should be equally deserving of the service working properly.


I agree. I never opted for Lifetime on any of my TiVo boxes (this is my third but the only one I have in operation) and have been paying monthly on this box for almost six years now. I did so happily believing I was getting real value from the "service" with HME etc.

Now I have any number of devices that do all the extra things TiVo did - Netflix, home video rendering and Pandora being the primary things in my house - and arguably better than tivo does - that its hard to justify. Add that to the fact that tuning adapters and cable cards basically suck and don't work all that well (for my household at least). This bug (self inflicted though it may be) ia probably the last straw for me. I'm pretty sure this will be my last TiVo brand DVR unless something significant changes.

Earlier this year I had envisioned having a new generation box and a bunch of streaming receivers in my household. I've lost belief in Tivo's ability to deliver a superior experience beyond basic DVR functionality - and I'm not convinced they are doing it all that well on even the new devices (though I have no firsthand experience with them).


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## dokcal

So I just disconnected my Expander (killing my programs) and set my TiVo HD on a kickstart 57 odyssey for the next three hours, when all along the problem was the #*$%&% TUNING ADAPTER? 

AAARGH!! 

IIRC, there's only one SDV channel I watch on a semi-regular basis, so maybe I'll just disconnect the darned thing permanently.

Unbelievable that this is even an issue.


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## wtherrell

After months and months of disconnecting the USB from TA to Tivo once a week so that Garbage collection could occur and program data would update, suddenly the GC is now taking place each day without any intervention from me. 5 straight days so far. Has never been this good. It's behaving just as good as my Premiere elite now. Did TIVO finally fix this, or am I just having a run of good luck?


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## Teeps

wtherrell said:


> After months and months of disconnecting the USB from TA to Tivo once a week so that Garbage collection could occur and program data would update, suddenly the GC is now taking place each day without any intervention from me. 5 straight days so far. Has never been this good. It's behaving just as good as my Premiere elite now. Did TIVO finally fix this, or am I just having a run of good luck?


Not sure what changed for you.

But, I checked it on my TCD648250 last night and it had not completed a GC since Friday. And that is powering down the T/A every night.

What ever changed, good on you...


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## sushikitten

Ugh. The original problem TiVo has moved to a new location but is still using the TA. It's been working flawlessly for at least eight months. Until now when I get the S03 error. I've had the TA unplugged for 17 hours and attempted two connections...both if which failed. I'm on my third now and it's Loading at 4%. My GC is a day old. 

Why now? After 8 months?

Talk about frustrating.


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## tootal2

you need to unplug it from the internet to for a few days. your tivo has to much guide data.

I hate the s03 error but i dont use tivo anymore i just use windows media center for ceton cable card adaptor



sushikitten said:


> Ugh. The original problem TiVo has moved to a new location but is still using the TA. It's been working flawlessly for at least eight months. Until now when I get the S03 error. I've had the TA unplugged for 17 hours and attempted two connections...both if which failed. I'm on my third now and it's Loading at 4%. My GC is a day old.
> 
> Why now? After 8 months?
> 
> Talk about frustrating.


----------



## sushikitten

Well, the third try worked and it successfully loaded data but I left it unplugged anyway.


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## jhyler

This is how I worked around the problem. I have an S3 on which I'd replaced the hard drive and was also having the S03 problem and going through the painful clear/delete workaround. Then at some point I replaced my upgraded drive with an even larger one, and something curious happened. My problem went away for a while, though eventually it came back. I got to wondering if the disk being full (of deleted programs) had something to do with it. So I experimentally tried manually deleting all of the deleted programs occasionally to make sure the disk would never fill. Sure enough, I didn't have the problem come back until I quit doing it and let the disk fill.

Permanently deleting already-deleted programs is NOT fun and not what you'd want to do on a long-term basis. I was originally thinking that if this worked, there might be a way break into the Unix OS of an S3 and put in some kind of cron job to periodically delete deleted program older than some threshold. But by that time I'd heard about the timer trick (brilliantly simple!) and adopted that instead of pursuing this any further. Only problem with that is, I tend to record a lot of old-time movies and series that only show up in the wee hours, so I have to be careful. 

I don't claim to understand exactly why this worked, so I can't offer any assurance it will work for anybody else. But it fixed it for me.


----------



## DougJohnson

wtherrell said:


> After months and months of disconnecting the USB from TA to Tivo once a week so that Garbage collection could occur and program data would update, suddenly the GC is now taking place each day without any intervention from me. 5 straight days so far. Has never been this good. It's behaving just as good as my Premiere elite now. Did TIVO finally fix this, or am I just having a run of good luck?


I had my S3 OLED on a timer for months. Then I thought I'd try it without the timer. All was well, with GC occurring every few days. That was 18 months ago and I've only had one "running out of data" problem. I fixed that one by unplugging the TA overnight.

I doubt TiVo has done anything in the software. I just think the problem is intermittent, at least for some of us.

-- Doug


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## sushikitten

And we're running out of data again. GRR. Time to get a lamp timer.


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## bluewarp

My original S3 gets this all the time. Rebooting eventually leads to a hard error, but works for a year or so. Rerunning the setup clears things out and fixes this temporarily too. From what I have researched, my problem is due to the guide info taking to long to process. So Tivo connects, processes but does not complete before next connection. Next connection resets the process etc etc. Tivo suggests pulling the network cable to let it complete. My solution is to activate parental controls on the router and block Tivo one day a week. Been working like this for couple years.

-jim


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## dlfl

bluewarp said:


> My original S3 gets this all the time. Rebooting eventually leads to a hard error, but works for a year or so. Rerunning the setup clears things out and fixes this temporarily too. From what I have researched, my problem is due to the guide info taking to long to process. So Tivo connects, processes but does not complete before next connection. Next connection resets the process etc etc. Tivo suggests pulling the network cable to let it complete. My solution is to activate parental controls on the router and block Tivo one day a week. Been working like this for couple years.
> 
> -jim


Disconnecting the USB cable to the TA for a few hours works for many people. Have you tried that? What is the GC (Garbage Collection) date saying during all this?


----------



## pbakers

unitron said:


> http://texasblindjack.com/2010/10/20/how-to-remove-the-s03-error-from-your-tivo/


Does anyone have a copy of the S03 fix posted at the above link (texasblindjack.com)? The link is down, I just get a "404 Page Not Found" message. Or at least a basic summary of the fix posted there? Thanks.


----------



## Eccles

pbakers said:


> Does anyone have a copy of the S03 fix posted at the above link (texasblindjack.com)? The link is down, I just get a "404 Page Not Found" message. Or at least a basic summary of the fix posted there? Thanks.


The Wayback Machine is your friend: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http:/...0/how-to-remove-the-s03-error-from-your-tivo/


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## steffen707

I got the S03 error about a year ago, and after doing a guided setup, got stuck in the loop. I cleared everything and started over. I was lazy and waited a year to get a timer for my tuning adapter.

I have never had my tivo freeze on me before. After putting the timer on the TA last week, i have woken up 2 out of 6 days to have my tivo frozen, and unresponsive to any button pushing on the remote. I have to unplug its power and replug it back in.

After doing so it seems to run fine. 

Has anybody else experienced this freezing of their tivo with using the timer on the tuning adapter? So frustrating as its hard to explain the hows and whys to my wife.


----------



## Teeps

steffen707 said:


> Has anybody else experienced this freezing of their tivo with using the timer on the tuning adapter?


No.
But, this could be an indication of the power supply starting to fail, from faulty capacitors.
Many reports of this:

Time to check the power supply
http://www.google.com/search?client...rceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest


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## steffen707

Teeps said:


> Time to check the power supply.
> 
> http://www.google.com/search?client...rceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest


Jeez, $99 for a new power supply? I probably should just pay $350 for a new TiVo Premiere XL4.


----------



## Teeps

steffen707 said:


> Jeez, $99 for a new power supply? I probably should just pay $350 for a new TiVo Premiere XL4.


If your TiVo has a lifetime subscription, it's worth fixing the power supply.
They can be fixed for about $15 in parts if you can run a soldering pencil.
If you have to pay a local electrical repairman add another $20~30 to the parts bill.
I can help if you are in the L.A. area.


----------



## steffen707

Teeps said:


> If your TiVo has a lifetime subscription, it's worth fixing the power supply.
> They can be fixed for about $15 in parts if you can run a soldering pencil.
> If you have to pay a local electrical repairman add another $20~30 to the parts bill.
> I can help if you are in the L.A. area.


Very true about the lifetime subscription deal. I'm month to month though.

I have done some soldering, probably could de-solder and resolder it back with the new parts. I'm not convinced its the capacitors yet. I'll have to take the box apart and check them.

After using the timer for a week, i checked the GC info in settings and all the dates look correct now. Since it took about a year for the issue to start acting up, does this mean you only need to switch off the TA once a year? Or can you even get by turning the TA off for a few hours every 2 weeks?


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## buscuitboy

Teeps said:


> If your TiVo has a lifetime subscription, it's worth fixing the power supply.
> They can be fixed for about $15 in parts if you can run a soldering pencil.
> If you have to pay a local electrical repairman add another $20~30 to the parts bill.
> I can help if you are in the L.A. area.


I have had two lifetimed Series 3 (OLED) with capacitor issues. While I may have been able to fix them myself, I didn't feel real comfortable soldering it & possibly messing something up so I just had a local repair shop do it for me. Pulled the power supply from each on my own and took it to them directly. Cost was about $18 each time to fix the bad caps. All has been working good since.


----------



## DougJohnson

steffen707 said:


> After using the timer for a week, i checked the GC info in settings and all the dates look correct now. Since it took about a year for the issue to start acting up, does this mean you only need to switch off the TA once a year? Or can you even get by turning the TA off for a few hours every 2 weeks?


I had this problem in October of 2011 and put my TA on a timer. After about a month, everything was going well, so I took it off the timer. Things continued to go well with GC occurring every few days. Then the problem reoccurred once, maybe 9 months later. I turned off the TA for about 4 hours, GC did its thing, and I haven't had a problem since.

So, at least for me, the problem is rare, and I don't need to use a timer. You might want to stop using the timer and just check GC about once a week. If it has been more than a week since GC, turn off the TA until GC completes, 4 hours or so. If this happens regularly, return to using a timer.

-- Doug

OLED S3, Time Warner TA, 1 TB internal drive.


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## sushikitten

OTOH, I tried leaving mine off the timer...and was having to pull the plug weekly. So mine is now on a daily automated regimen.


----------



## dlfl

DougJohnson said:


> I had this problem in October of 2011 and put my TA on a timer. After about a month, everything was going well, so I took it off the timer. Things continued to go well with GC occurring every few days. Then the problem reoccurred once, maybe 9 months later. I turned off the TA for about 4 hours, GC did its thing, and I haven't had a problem since.
> 
> So, at least for me, the problem is rare, and I don't need to use a timer. You might want to stop using the timer and just check GC about once a week. If it has been more than a week since GC, turn off the TA until GC completes, 4 hours or so. If this happens regularly, return to using a timer.
> 
> -- Doug
> 
> OLED S3, Time Warner TA, 1 TB internal drive.


I think I may have the same situation. My TiVo HD is four years old and the one and only time I had the GC problem was in early April this year. I didn't even power down the TA -- just disconnected the USB cable for 3 hours. Haven't had the GC problem since then although I've noticed the interval between the last 3 GC dates was 5 days, whereas 2 to 3 days had been normal before that. I wonder if the GC interval slowly grows until it reaches a week, and causes the program-data-will-run out message?


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## substance12

Do the newer tivos have this same problem? I did the update channels trick but it wasn't obvious to me that that method was forcing a GC on my unit.


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## Eccles

substance12 said:


> Do the newer tivos have this same problem?


No. I eventually gave up and used this BS as an excuse to upgrade to a Premiere, and haven't had a moment's trouble since. Come to think of it, perhaps there's a reason why TiVo don't appear to be in any hurry to fix it.


----------



## Teeps

buscuitboy said:


> I have had two lifetimed Series 3 (OLED) with capacitor issues. While I may have been able to fix them myself, I didn't feel real comfortable soldering it & possibly messing something up so I just had a local repair shop do it for me. Pulled the power supply from each on my own and took it to them directly. Cost was about $18 each time to fix the bad caps. All has been working good since.


Well there you go... another happy TiVo owner.



Eccles said:


> No. I eventually gave up and used this BS as an excuse to upgrade to a Premiere, and haven't had a moment's trouble since. Come to think of it, perhaps there's a reason why TiVo don't appear to be in any hurry to fix it.


What ever it takes; I used the "need more tuners" excuse to get an XL4.


----------



## joelkfla

So ...

The error message says "Connect to the TiVo service," but the fix is *NOT *to connect to the TiVo service for 2 days!

As I recall Superman saying in the comic books 50 years ago, "What irony!"


----------



## ravingfans

I'm posting this in all the threads related to Guided Setup loops as I have not seen this advice anywhere on the nets:

How to get out of Guided Setup:
*1. Prerequisite*--have to have either a serial cable connection to get a shell or a telnet connection to get a shell on the TiVo--there are plenty of resources to show how to do these options elsewhere.
*2.* disconnect the Tuning Adapter and unplug all cable cards
*3.* let the TiVo boot up to the Guided Setup entry page, but don't click select with the remote
*4.* telnet in to the TiVo (or access through the serial link
*5.* type (without quotes):
dbgc-mcp -fg-gc
this initiates a garbage collection, and since the Tuning Adapter and CableCards are not connected, it does not distract the TiVo from completing GC

*6.* WAIT for this command to complete. Took mine several hours
*7.* once dbgc-mcp has completed, go through Guided Setup and it should now complete

Notes: I was having trouble getting fakecall.tcl to work in rc.sysinit.author (although a couple years ago I used it successfully)--it ran fine from the command prompt, but did not bypass the guided setup for me, so perhaps I wasn't doing something right there. Nevertheless, fakecall.tcl is still called from my rc.sysinit.author file, but it was having no effect, so I don't think it played any role in the solution above.

I welcome comments back. This fix does not correct the S03 problem itself, just gets you past the Guided Setup loop. It has been 3.5 years since I had the S03 problem, so now am retracing my steps. My solution at that time was to increase swap space to 2GB, so I think that fended off the problem for a long time.


----------



## sushikitten

I thought just for sheetz and gigglez that I'd take my TA off the lamp timer to see if things had changed. Nope. It took about a month, but as of today, my GC date was January 6. It goes back on the timer tonight.


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## Teeps

sushikitten said:


> I thought just for sheetz and gigglez that I'd take my TA off the lamp timer to see if things had changed. Nope. It took about a month, but as of today, my GC date was January 6. It goes back on the timer tonight.


Like to dance with the devil heh?

Even with the lamp timer my S3 648 gets GC constipated occasionally.
At the point I have to leave the TA off for a few hours longer 5 instead of 2.5 hrs.

And, just to answer the original question: when will tivo fix "program info will runout on 7-18-2011 connect to tivo" problem?

NEVER!


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## sushikitten

Teeps said:


> Like to dance with the devil heh?


LOL! 

At least it fixed itself with four hours back on the timer.


----------



## archangelsfv

Can anyone confirm if perhaps TiVo has actually fixed this issue on the S3s?

I've been doing the "pull the usb cable" off the TA weekly since I got cable back in January. I normally do this every Friday night. This past Tuesday, I went into system info and it showed GC ocurred on Tuesday (should have been the previous Saturday). I checked again yesterday and GC ran at 7:15 am Friday morning, but I had not yet pulled the USB cable. 

I don't have TiVo suggestions yet, but they usually take a while to restore after GC is run. I also noticed I'm on software version 11.0m-1-2-648. IIRC, my last version was "k".

Just wondering if anyone else has noticed GC running normally. I'm on TWC in LA, too, if that matters.


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## Teeps

There will never be a "fix" by tivo for this problem... tivo insists that non tivo certified hard drives and/or upgrade drives are the only tivos with this problem. 
Therefore tivo has little reason to fix the problem on modified obsolete units.

That said: I've had the tuning adapter on a lamp timer for several years, now. GC occurs every other day to 3 days, never more.
Last month I disabled the t/a timer for 3 weeks, and GC did not occur until 2 days after restoring the lamp timer solution.


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## randywalters

I just want to pop in here and thank they guys and gals in this thread that came up with and tested the simple solutions to this S03 Error problem.

A few months ago My OLED S3 started giving me the "Guide Data Running Out Soon" warning message but i would ignore it for a few days then it would apparently fix itself and not come back. Then several weeks later it would happen again but go away within a few days. But this last time it wasn't going away and my Guide Data only extended about 4 more days so i forced a connection and for the first time i got the dreaded Failed - Error S03. I tried a few more forced connections over the next few days then instead of Error S03 it got a scary Failed - Unrecoverable Error message instead. The next few attempts were Error S03 so i searched the S3 Forum and found this thread. 

I'm really really glad i read through the whole thread before attempting any of the premature and more drastic recommendations some posted to clear and delete or reboot or re-run guided setup or replace the hard drive as none of these were necessary in my case. My GC was stuck at a date two weeks ago so it had not been updating. 

On the recommendations posted here by so many several pages into this thread, i simply disconnected the power and USB from my TWC Cisco T/A and also disconnected the Network Cable and let it sit for about 12 hours overnight, and the next morning i checked my GC and it had updated to the current date, so i re-connected the Network Cable, forced a connection which was successful, then baby-sat it for several minutes while it downloaded info, then when it disconnected i unplugged my Network Cable and monitored it while it Loaded Info. Two Hours and 21 minutes later it was done and i soon had 13 days of Guide Data !! 

I'm not sure if disconnecting the T/A or disconnecting the Network Cable is what cleared my S03 problem (as i did both) but all my Season Passes and Recordings and Settings are intact.

I bought it Jan 1st 2007 and upgraded to Weaknees 500GB 14 months later when the original hard drive failed out of warranty. I got the Tuning Adapter when Teeps did (we're on the same South Bay TWC Network) and while it's been problematic and unreliable, i had never gotten the S03 thing until just recently.


----------



## Teeps

randywalters said:


> I just want to pop in here and thank they guys and gals in this thread that came up with and tested the simple solutions to this S03 Error problem.
> 
> A few months ago My OLED S3 started giving me the "Guide Data Running Out Soon" warning message but i would ignore it for a few days then it would apparently fix itself and not come back. Then several weeks later it would happen again but go away within a few days. But this last time it wasn't going away and my Guide Data only extended about 4 more days so i forced a connection and for the first time i got the dreaded Failed - Error S03. I tried a few more forced connections over the next few days then instead of Error S03 it got a scary Failed - Unrecoverable Error message instead. The next few attempts were Error S03 so i searched the S3 Forum and found this thread.
> 
> I'm really really glad i read through the whole thread before attempting any of the premature and more drastic recommendations some posted to clear and delete or reboot or re-run guided setup or replace the hard drive as none of these were necessary in my case. My GC was stuck at a date two weeks ago so it had not been updating.
> 
> On the recommendations posted here by so many several pages into this thread, i simply disconnected the power and USB from my TWC Cisco T/A and also disconnected the Network Cable and let it sit for about 12 hours overnight, and the next morning i checked my GC and it had updated to the current date, so i re-connected the Network Cable, forced a connection which was successfull, then baby-sat it for a few hours while it downloaded info, then when it disconnected i unplugged my Network Cable and monitored it while it Loaded Info. Two Hours and 21 minutes later it was done and i soon had 13 days of Guide Data !!
> 
> I'm not sure if disconnecting the T/A or disconnecting the Network Cable is what cleared my S03 problem (as i did both) but all my Season Passes and Recordings and Settings are intact.
> 
> I bought it Jan 1st 2007 and upgraded to Weaknees 500GB 14 months later when the original hard drive failed out of warranty. I got the Tuning Adapter when Teeps did (we're on the same South Bay TWC Network) and while it's been problematic and unreliable, i had never gotten the S03 thing until just recently.


Time for a lamp timer.
I have one similar to this: http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=18590696
But it's branded Ace Hardware.
I have it set to turn power off @ 0100 and on at 0400 hrs.


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## unitron

Teeps said:


> There will never be a "fix" by tivo for this problem... *tivo insists that non tivo certified hard drives and/or upgrade drives are the only tivos with this problem. *
> Therefore tivo has little reason to fix the problem on modified obsolete units.
> 
> That said: I've had the tuning adapter on a lamp timer for several years, now. GC occurs every other day to 3 days, never more.
> Last month I disabled the t/a timer for 3 weeks, and GC did not occur until 2 days after restoring the lamp timer solution.


I'm pretty sure that sushikitten's S3 HD is still running the original hard drive, but can't swear to it. I know they were going to add an external and got the "not the one specifically intended for a TiVo" model at one point.


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## dlfl

If all you're getting is the "Program Info will run out" message, and you see the GC date is several days old, try just disconnecting the TA USB cable (rather than all the other stuff mentioned above). Then check the GC date periodically. I've seen it update in as little as 20 mins but it might take up to several hours. (Then reconnect the USB.)

If this is happening frequently the lamp timer is attractive as an automatic corrective solution. I've only had this happen 3 times in 5+ years on my model 652, with 1 TB HDD upgrade -- so it hasn't been worth fussing with the timer.

It's easy to speculate that the software doesn't allow for increased times needed for GC with the increased HDD sizes (e.g. 1 TB and greater). But TiVo actually sold a model 658 (Tivo HD XL) that had a 1 TB drive as delivered. Did they actually tweek the software to handle the increased GC times, but only for that model? If so it seems like it would have been trivially easy for them to include that tweek in the 652 software.


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## randywalters

Teeps said:


> Time for a lamp timer......I have it set to turn power off @ 0100 and on at 0400 hrs.


I actually have few small mechanical lamp timers like that, but i record a lot of cable channels at odd hours and i'm having trouble finding a 4-5 hour time slot window in any given 24 hour period that doesn't contain a scheduled Season Pass recording sometime during the week. And most of what i record happen to be on SDV channels (working off the SDV channel list i got from TWC 3 years ago).

So for now i'm holding off on the Lamp Timer solution and will just disconnect the T/A manually on a weekday that has no cable programs scheduled to record. I just have to remember to do it  I'm going to monitor things for the next few weeks.

I've had the T/A since June 2011 and have never ever gotten the S03 Error until i got the first one a week or two ago, and i don't think it's a coincidence that it started the same week that TWC took away all of my my clear QAM local HD channels on my TVs that are connected straight to the wall (i've re-scanned several times but they're no longer there) so i'm thinking something at the head-end changed that is causing some sort of conflict between my S3 and the tuning adapter.

Right now my GC is stuck from a few days ago, and the last connection attempt failed and i have the Error S03 again, but guide data extends up till Wed 10/1 at 5:00 pm. I need to keep my T/A active for the whole weekend, but i unplugged the Network Cable for the weekend as i don't need to connect. Just curious if that will allow the GC to occur like it has for a few others in this thread.

Since i can't use my simple mechanical timer, i found a few digital timers on Amazon that can be set differently on different days so i can leave my T/A active all weekend, but turn it off for several hours on particular weekdays when i don't need it to be on:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0020ML744/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

http://www.amazon.com/Woods-50008-Indoor-Digital-Outlet/dp/B006LYHEEY/ref=cm_cd_al_qh_dp_t


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## ravingfans

Hi All, I was having a problem with the Tuning Adapter not sync'ing back to TWC after the lamp timer turned back on, therefore missed recording many shows. Would have to turn the TA off and on and unplug in various sequences to get it to re-sync--very ugly!

I changed my configuration to put a USB Powered Hub between the TiVo S3 and the TA. basically USB Cable from TiVo to the USB Powered Hub and another USB Cable from the USB Powered Hub to the TA. The Power adapter for the USB Adapter then plugs into the Lamp Timer, so that the TA is powered all the time.

I ran into one problem doing this, in that the USB Powered Hub didn't always turn off since there was just enough energy on the USB line to keep it alive, so this wasn't completely reliable and I still had the GC issue, etc. To fix this, I got out my soldering iron and wire snippers exacto-knife,*[Edit--thanks to Nooneuknow: I actually meant to say exacto knife to cut the PCB traces rx unning power to the USB connectors on the Hub. No for the inexperienced at electronics rework as it did involve some soldering too* figured out the correct Power pins on the USB connectors I used and clipped them *cut the lines*. Had to clip on both the TiVo USB Connector as well as the TA USB Connector to have the USB Powered Hub fully dependent on the wall wart for power.

This configuration has worked much better as the TA has since never lost sync with TWC, it merely wasn't connected via the USB Hub to the Tivo which allows GC to complete and the TiVo get's regular programming updates ever since.

I'm cross-posting this in another forum or two where I've posted my input on the S03 error before, hopefully can save somebody else the irritation...


----------



## nooneuknow

ravingfans said:


> Hi All, I was having a problem with the Tuning Adapter not sync'ing back to TWC after the lamp timer turned back on, therefore missed recording many shows. Would have to turn the TA off and on and unplug in various sequences to get it to re-sync--very ugly!
> 
> I changed my configuration to put a USB Powered Hub between the TiVo S3 and the TA. basically USB Cable from TiVo to the USB Powered Hub and another USB Cable from the USB Powered Hub to the TA. The Power adapter for the USB Adapter then plugs into the Lamp Timer, so that the TA is powered all the time.
> 
> I ran into one problem doing this, in that the USB Powered Hub didn't always turn off since there was just enough energy on the USB line to keep it alive, so this wasn't completely reliable and I still had the GC issue, etc. To fix this, I got out my soldering iron and wire snippers, figured out the correct Power pins on the USB connectors I used and clipped them. Had to clip on both the TiVo USB Connector as well as the TA USB Connector to have the USB Powered Hub fully dependent on the wall wart for power.
> 
> This configuration has worked much better as the TA has since never lost sync with TWC, it merely wasn't connected via the USB Hub to the Tivo which allows GC to complete and the TiVo get's regular programming updates ever since.
> 
> I'm cross-posting this in another forum or two where I've posted my input on the S03 error before, hopefully can save somebody else the irritation...


Wouldn't it make more sense to open up the hub, and cut the proper power carrying lines in there (for those those that have the skills)?

All it takes is an exacto knife, to cut the traces on the PCB inside. I've done this on many PCBs, for many different reasons.

I had often found myself thinking along the same lines as you, and ran into the same obstacles.

There are other alternatives. I have "Mini notebook travel USB hubs", that have a switch on the side, for "bus-powered" or "external powered". If the switch is set to external powered, and the external power is lost, the hard switch makes all this cutting wires or slicing traces completely unnecessary (and doesn't let USB bus power pass). But, many of these hubs don't include an AC power adapter, and use a special power connector type, typical of most 5V I.T.E. power supplies, to insure you use an I.T.E. (Information Technology Equipment) rated power supply. I used a universal one, with multiple tips (but the chance of reversing polarity, for those who are not careful).

*I beg you to consider updating your posts, before the wrong people get involved in messing with things they aren't equipped to, and/or don't have the required skills to do it correctly. TCF gets members from all walks of life, and some have no business cutting/slicing cables and traces.*

If you do, and include my alternate suggestions, it would be appreciated if you gave me credit for the alternative options for achieving the same results.


----------



## Teeps

nooneuknow said:


> *I beg you to consider updating your posts, before the wrong people get involved in messing with things they aren't equipped to, and/or don't have the required skills to do it correctly. TCF gets members from all walks of life, and some have no business cutting/slicing cables and traces.*
> 
> If you do, and include my alternate suggestions, it would be appreciated if you gave me credit for the alternative options for achieving the same results.


Huh?
I'm confused, where did this come from?


----------



## nooneuknow

Teeps said:


> Huh?
> I'm confused, where did this come from?


The post I replied to (and quoted, in-full), where a solution was given, involving cutting wires inside USB cables. The same thing can be achieved without cutting anything.

The fact that it was stated that this miracle cure would be cross-posted around, had me concerned. It's a legit way to do it, if you have some USB cables you are willing to cut open and sever the power wires inside of. Alternately, you can do as described in the part of my post you didn't quote.

If not for the "I'm off to go share this everywhere" (paraphrased) factor, I'd have simply left the bold part out.

If you still don't get it, try reading the posts, as opposed to skimming, or whatever led to your confusion.


----------



## Teeps

nooneuknow said:


> The post I replied to (and quoted, in-full), where a solution was given, involving cutting wires inside USB cables. The same thing can be achieved without cutting anything.
> 
> The fact that it was stated that this miracle cure would be cross-posted around, had me concerned. It's a legit way to do it, if you have some USB cables you are willing to cut open and sever the power wires inside of. Alternately, you can do as described in the part of my post you didn't quote.
> 
> If not for the "I'm off to go share this everywhere" (paraphrased) factor, I'd have simply left the bold part out.
> 
> If you still don't get it, try reading the posts, as opposed to skimming, or whatever led to your confusion.


I get it now, after seeing today's post in stuck in guided setup S03 thread and it linked to this thread.


----------



## tropicalGlenn

After trying *everything* to get myself out of the dreaded Guided Setup loop (because of no space due to lack of Garbage Collection [2TB+TA]) - I basically did the following someone mentioned earlier;

Enter GS and specify a zip code of 00000.
Continue with setup (selecting "cable only")
One of the cable service company options will be "Tiny TiVo". Select it.
This will load a very small program guide that will hopefully fit in your available storage. Luckily it did for me. Be patient if it takes a while to perform "Processing" where it normally hangs. My took a hour or so but did finish.
Then I cleared the "program and guide data" as I should have originally. 
(This also took a while.)
Then I re-ran GS for my zipcode/cable-provider (knowing garbage collection ran and I now knew I had space) and I'm back up and running!

Don't forget to enable your Telnet port - it was so frustrating when I was originally stuck in the loop that I couldn't telnet into the TiVo and initiate the garbage collection via command line.

Hope this helps someone. And thanks to everyone else for your posts relative to this overall problem. Now onto a timer/etc. solution to disconnect my TA on a regular basis.


----------



## dlfl

Telnet port? Apparently your box is hacked Wish a telnet port was standard, but I can see why TiVo would never do that.


----------



## tropicalGlenn

dlfl said:


> Telnet port? Apparently your box is hacked Wish a telnet port was standard, but I can see why TiVo would never do that.


My bad. I posted that reminder before I looked into how to do it on my (unhacked) Series 3. I mistakenly enable the 31339 control port. I need to research what it takes to hack the Telnet service to be active and see if its worth it.


----------



## nooneuknow

tropicalGlenn said:


> After trying *everything* to get myself out of the dreaded Guided Setup loop (because of no space due to lack of Garbage Collection [2TB+TA]) - I basically did the following someone mentioned earlier;
> 
> Enter GS and specify a zip code of 00000.
> Continue with setup (selecting "cable only")
> One of the cable service company options will be "Tiny TiVo". Select it.
> This will load a very small program guide that will hopefully fit in your available storage. Luckily it did for me. Be patient if it takes a while to perform "Processing" where it normally hangs. My took a hour or so but did finish.
> Then I cleared the "program and guide data" as I should have originally.
> (This also took a while.)
> Then I re-ran GS for my zipcode/cable-provider (knowing garbage collection ran and I now knew I had space) and I'm back up and running!
> 
> Don't forget to enable your Telnet port - it was so frustrating when I was originally stuck in the loop that I couldn't telnet into the TiVo and initiate the garbage collection via command line.
> 
> Hope this helps someone. And thanks to everyone else for your posts relative to this overall problem. Now onto a timer/etc. solution to disconnect my TA on a regular basis.


Minus the telnetting part, and your notes, I am the first member to bring up the "00000 Zip Code & Tiny TiVo Provider lineup" trick, and the many variations of how one can use it to correct a great, and increasing, number of issues with.

Surprisingly, this trick seems to work on just about any TiVo, has yet to "brick" anybody's TiVo that I am aware of, and I should probably create a thread on it, and consolidate the different guides I have posted to using it as the base, upon which to get the desired result from.

Origins: I was bored one day, and experimenting with creating an a TSN agnostic image, from a stock and "virgin" (never booted) drive, adding a software update to the most current software, then doing a C&DE, pulling the power at the reboot after C&DE completed the second phase (the first reboot time part), then imaging the drive, using DVRBARS, and *aiming for the smallest size image*. The less sectors written to, the smaller the size, when creating an image that skips "virgin" (all zeroes) sectors.

Notes:
1. It is always imperative, that Indexing and GC are verified to have completed, before moving on, after GS completes.
2. It is often best to only have power, network, and AV-to-TV connections connected, so as to free up the resources involved when there is a signal available to the tuners (and not write tuner buffers to the drive).
3. A cablecard can be installed (and can even be successfully paired), but is best removed, unless circumstances dictate otherwise.
4. If the TiVo & installed software is new enough, pressing Enter on the second screen of GS, will exposed "Installer Express" setup mode, which saves time, downloads less data, and skips most of the GS screens.

I'm not aware of anybody else, anywhere, ever posting about this before me. There's not much I can make such a claim on.


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## tropicalGlenn

nooneuknow said:


> I'm not aware of anybody else, anywhere, ever posting about this before me. There's not much I can make such a claim on.


Thank you again for sharing the info you determined/posted and the new tricks you just posted above. People stuck in the GS loop need to know about this - because its the simplest and easiest way out of it.

My apologies for not giving you credit in my original post - but I read so many posts across several forums in attempts to try to escape the GS loop. I forgot where I saw it. Fortunately I tried yours (last) and was successful. (Just in time to record the World Series game tonight - you saved my butt!).

Cheers!


----------



## nooneuknow

tropicalGlenn said:


> Thank you again for sharing the info you determined/posted and the new tricks you just posted above. People stuck in the GS loop need to know about this - because its the simplest and easiest way out of it.
> 
> My apologies for not giving you credit in my original post - but I read so many posts across several forums in attempts to try to escape the GS loop. I forgot where I saw it. Fortunately I tried yours (last) and was successful. (Just in time to record the World Series game tonight - you saved my butt!).
> 
> Cheers!


No problem, and you're welcome. Sometimes, great things come out of boredom, and/or having too much time on one's hands...

Here's a link to one of the earlier posts I made on it (for updated, clean, minmal size drive image backups), before finding out about it's magical healing powers, and many more uses, some likely yet to be discovered: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9771305#post9771305

Here's a link to step-by-step, to fix guide data problems, that persist through the usual means of trying to resolve: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10145381#post10145381

Now we have your own post, with notes, and verified results, regarding GS Loops. :up:

I really should create a thread, and consolidate the known uses, and break-down what parts are optional, and what are necessary, per reason for using it... For all I know, it may have more uses than I am even aware of.


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## dlfl

nooneuknow said:


> No problem, and you're welcome. Sometimes, great things come out of boredom, and/or having too much time on one's hands...
> .........


LOL So necessity isn't always the mother of invention?


----------



## Teeps

This is the first I've heard of the zip code = 00000 trick.

TropicalGlenn,
Do you have a lamp timer on the tuning adapter?


----------



## tropicalGlenn

nooneuknow said:


> Notes:
> 1. It is always imperative, that Indexing and GC are verified to have completed, before moving on, after GS completes.


Well... I *thought* I had checked the GC status after doing the zipcode 00000/tiny tivo trick (this was before nooneuknow's warning above was posted). So after going through the correct zipcode GS - the first program data update worked (a day or two of info) but the GC date/time is still the old one from when I was stuck originally in the GS loop and won't update. So it looks like I'd have to redo the 00000/tiny-tivo GS, wait for the GC to update (and other house cleaning), then redo GS with my zipcode/cable-provider. At least I'm not stuck in the GS loop anymore!


----------



## tropicalGlenn

Teeps said:


> This is the first I've heard of the zip code = 00000 trick.


Funny thing - once you know about 00000/tiny-tivo and search for it there's tons of postings relative to it (mostly thanks to nooneuknow's posts).



Teeps said:


> TropicalGlenn,
> Do you have a lamp timer on the tuning adapter?


I do not have a timer (yet). I installed my 2TB drive in a Series 3 with Cisco TA over 1.5 years ago and this in only the second time my GC (garbage collection) failed to update - and therefore I got wedged in the GS loop trying to recover (before reading more recent posts on how to recover - "read twice, hack once". 

Anyway, I'm going to research putting a timer on a USB hub instead. My reasoning is that even though I have a good signal into my house, my TAs take a long time to sync. So I'd rather keep them synced and ready to go and somehow disconnect the TA via the USB cable to keep the TiVo happy. (Disclaimer: I just saw this as an option that piqued my curiosity and haven't fully research this possible solution yet.)


----------



## dlfl

tropicalGlenn said:


> Well... I *thought* I had checked the GC status after doing the zipcode 00000/tiny tivo trick (this was before nooneuknow's warning above was posted). So after going through the correct zipcode GS - the first program data update worked (a day or two of info) but the GC date/time is still the old one from when I was stuck originally in the GS loop and won't update. So it looks like I'd have to redo the 00000/tiny-tivo GS, wait for the GC to update (and other house cleaning), then redo GS with my zipcode/cable-provider. At least I'm not stuck in the GS loop anymore!


GC isn't particularly synchronous with program data updates. My GC sometimes goes 2 or 3 days before running again. What are you doing to "force" the GC?


----------



## nooneuknow

dlfl said:


> LOL So necessity isn't always the mother of invention?


While boredom led to me entering all zeroes for GS, it took some trial and error to find that Tiny TiVo was the best provider (for my goal) for the secret 00000 zip code. There was some necessity to find out what each provider name/lineup was there for (apparently only internal testing by TiVo), or the secret zip really only proved it was accepted (no big deal, alone).

Beyond that, it was necessity to find some use for it. Then, necessity (or OCD), required finding the provider lineup with the smallest footprint, equalling the least amount of resources required to work with that.

If I had stopped at boredom/curiosity if it would take 00000, and gone no further, making no mention of it here, who knows how long it might have taken (if ever) for somebody else to try it, plus run through the different special lineups there, plus find at least one can be useful for more than just killing time, trying them, plus to post about it, in detail.

I made a comment in one post, somewhere on TCF, that TiVo CSRs sometimes give out the same info. Where I pulled that out of, I don't know (may have made an assumption, that I couldn't be the only person to have suggested it, because it existed). If a TiVo CSR ever recommended it, one would expect somebody would have posted about it (I TCF searched, and Google searched within TCF, finding no such posts, also expanding to non site-limited search, and nothing came up, that didn't originate from me, or dated before my sharing of it). I know a CSR never told me about it. I think I'll find that post and take that erroneous comment out (even though leaving it in probably makes using it feel safer for some).

One "aha!" moment, was a guide data corruption issue I could not resolve, and I was determined not to have to do a C&DE (or re-image the drive). I tried CPI&TDL, changing to neighboring zip codes, then far away incorrect ones, and switching back to my correct one (with no fix), only to remember what I had found, use 00000 instead, which cleared up the corruption, and got my guide data back to being non-corrupt. That led to sharing the process with anybody stuck with a GS, GC, or GD problem, that had tried the obvious known (non-extreme) methods to correct. The only failure-to-work report I recall, was on a Roamio with a physically damaged cablecard slot, where it was a hail-mary suggestion to begin with. But, at the time, the damage was not a known issue.

The whole "Installer Express" mode for GS was known before any of this. Using it, when available on the second screen of GS, really saves boatloads of time, minimizes interaction, plus enhances all the other good things 00000/Tiny TiVo can help with, by limiting the downloaded guide data to one day worth, rather than being forced to initiate downloading the whole 12 days worth.

Call me long-winded, if you must. But, on this matter, I have some pride in not just repeating what others have already repeated. I once made a snarky remark about a member, and got my ass handed to me, as that member was an original source for a fix, that it took TiVo a long time to officially address.

I guess I have a hope that if this secret I exposed, and made into something useful, helps enough people, maybe those who seem to have nothing better to do than take cheap shots at, and bait me, might get the same treatment, and make me not feel the need to respond.

On the talk I see about people contemplating using powered USB hubs and a timer to sever the TA USB link, I suggest they acquire a hub that has a mechanical switch for bus power/external power, which will ensure the link is lost, rather than holding-up on loss of external power, by falling back to bus power automatically. Cutting bus power wires on spare USB cables, works to eliminate the need for a specific hub. But, those without an excess of USB cables to cut open (or lacking the skills/bravery to do so), a Laptop/Notebook "USB 2.0 travel hub" with a manual switch is a valid option, with zero potential to damage anything by using one.

My 00000/Tiny TiVo workaround, for when things have gone beyond the point of removing the TA being a solution, is only a cure (after the fact), not a vaccination against winding up in the same place again.

Hopefully, it will be proven as a fairly universal way out of being stuck in a "Guided Setup loop", so those giving the advice to "avoid repeating Guided Setup, at all costs", can stop inciting fear of GS, simply because a few people have found themselves stuck there. It's not going to help, when people see such knee-jerk posts, don't understand the context, and "avoid repeating Guided Setup, at all costs", even when that is the next logical thing to try/do, will be what a TiVo CSR will advise, and is exactly what they need to do, unless they just want to wipe the drive, reimage, and start over. Ironically, the first stage after that, is booting into Guided Setup (or having to do GS, a C&DE, then GS again). At least the references, so far, are to a "loop", rather than a "plague".


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## Teeps

dlfl said:


> GC isn't particularly synchronous with program data updates. My GC sometimes goes 2 or 3 days before running again. What are you doing to "force" the GC?


 This has been my experience as well.
Even with the daily time out for the T/A via lamp timer. Some times it takes GC 3 days to complete.


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## randywalters

dlfl said:


> GC isn't particularly synchronous with program data updates. My GC sometimes goes 2 or 3 days before running again. What are you doing to "force" the GC?


Since i first posted in this thread back on 9/19 i've been monitoring and logging my S3's GC daily and it only got stuck once (for about 4 days 9/23 to 9/27) but turning the TA OFF for a few hours enabled the stuck GC to finally update.

So i then added the lamp timer (Woods #50008 7-Day Digital Outlet Timer, linked below). On this Timer, i first got it to stay "ON" constantly by setting the very first event to ON at 12:00 am Midnight, then i selected Mon/Tues/Wed/Thur/Fri/Sat/Sun to make sure it stays on every day, then i added a 2-hour OFF period on Mon, Wed, and Fri during the mid-morning when i'm not recording anything. This keeps the Timer ON 24/7 with the exception of those three 2-hour OFF periods that i inserted. With this Timer setup, my GC was dutifully updating itself every few days.

After a few weeks of that i removed the Timer and started monitoring the GC daily and over the past 2-3 weeks and it's been updating itself just fine every 2 days, with a few times going 3 days so it seems to be working properly now, but i'm keeping my eye on it to make sure it doesn't get stuck again.

On 10/9 i got the big TWC Channel Lineup change so before attempting to change my channel lineup in my Channels List (i chose to do it this way instead of re-running Guided Setup which has caused others to get stuck in the loop) i made sure my GC was up to date first and it's a good thing i did because my S3 for some reason rebooted itself while i was changing my lineup, but it came back online just fine. I had thought that by changing my lineup using the Channels List method would avoid rebooting but i guess not.

Woods #50008 7-Day Digital Outlet Timer:
http://www.amazon.com/Woods-50008-Indoor-Digital-Outlet/dp/B006LYHEEY/ref=cm_cd_al_qh_dp_t


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## tropicalGlenn

dlfl said:


> GC isn't particularly synchronous with program data updates. My GC sometimes goes 2 or 3 days before running again. What are you doing to "force" the GC?


I agree from observation. In my previous post above where I did the 00000 zipcode trick but did NOT wait for the GC to update - I thought I would have to do the trick again and wait for the GC to update this time before doing GS for my own cable provider - but after a day the GC ran and all seems fine.

So the GC is asynchronous to fetching program data/etc. To answer your question I do not know how to initiate GC. Now my curious mind (that does not really have the time to dig into this) wonders how is the TA/USB affecting GC?? What the hell does the TiVo see that blocks GC? It must be something in the TA USB protocol the TiVo uses to talk to the TA or visa versa.

P.S. nooneuknow - you're a good reverse engineer. I could have used you on my software team many moons ago...  :up: And always thanks to all the contributors that help us resolve our problems and share experiences.


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## randywalters

dlfl said:


> ...... What are you doing to "force" the GC?


For us civilians that don't telenet in to the Tivo (i don't even know what that is LOL) i've found that i can "un-stick" my GC if it's stuck longer than 3 days simply by turning my TA's front power switch off for a few hours (i've done this 2 or 3 times now). The other way is to disconnect the TA for a few hours or more. Both methods have enabled my S3 to update a GC that had been stuck for longer than normal.


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## nooneuknow

randywalters said:


> For us civilians that don't telenet in to the Tivo (i don't even know what that is LOL) i've found that i can "un-stick" my GC if it's stuck longer than 3 days simply by turning my TA's front power switch off for a few hours (i've done this 2 or 3 times now). The other way is to disconnect the TA for a few hours or more. Both methods have enabled my S3 to update a GC that had been stuck for longer than normal.


Just a clarification for all "civilians", the button on the front of a TA is not a power button. It's more of a "standby" button, that doesn't even stop you from browsing the TA menu/diag screens from your TiVo (at least with the Cisco STA1520 TA). All it does is handoff the control over the mapping and tuning back over to the cablecard. I've seen a few instances where the button will bring up the screen that says the TA is disconnected. Every instance I've seen this happen, the TA is not operating properly, and needs a power cycle (pulling power via plug, then restoring it). The advantage of using the button, sometimes, is you can restore SDV without waiting for the whole TA boot process to complete.

This is a good starting point, for those wondering what part of having a TA attached holds up GC: Figure out exactly what is different between the two modes of operation, controlled by that button. I've seen multiple reports of that button allowing GC to complete, without any further intervention/interaction required, than remembering to press it, then press it again, once GC has completed.

The handoff time is a blip, compared to a whole TA cold-boot, although I find it best to power-cycle my TAs every two weeks, or the odds of them malfunctioning, hanging in a fault condition, and losing recordings, is not in my favor.


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## tropicalGlenn

With the TA/timer fix...does the TA have to be off when the GC thread just happens to execute? Or does the TA disappearing somehow stimulate the GC thread to run. Or E) None of the Above.  People seem to be using many different approaches as to how often and how long the TA is cycled for. Guess its time to dig into those threads - but it seems appropriate to ask in this thread at this point.

Thanks.


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## Teeps

tropicalGlenn said:


> With the TA/timer fix...does the TA have to be off when the GC thread just happens to execute? Or does the TA disappearing somehow stimulate the GC thread to run. Or E) None of the Above.  People seem to be using many different approaches as to how often and how long the TA is cycled for. Guess its time to dig into those threads - but it seems appropriate to ask in this thread at this point.
> 
> Thanks.


Good questions; I don't know the answers, but I have the lamp timer set to turn off at 0100 hrs then back on at 0400 hrs.
The time stamp(?) on the GC line is usually around 0300 hrs or later.


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## DougJohnson

tropicalGlenn said:


> With the TA/timer fix...does the TA have to be off when the GC thread just happens to execute? Or does the TA disappearing somehow stimulate the GC thread to run. Or E) None of the Above.  People seem to be using many different approaches as to how often and how long the TA is cycled for. Guess its time to dig into those threads - but it seems appropriate to ask in this thread at this point.
> 
> Thanks.


None of the above. For reasons unknown, the TA slows GC (garbage collection) way down. GC also takes more time on larger discs. Thus the combination of larger discs and TAs on Series 3 causes the problems we see.

Apparently, if GC does not complete before a programming update, it starts over again. In the meantime, garbage is building up, so GC takes still longer to run. Eventually, it will get to a state that a Series 3 will fail completely.

Turning the TA off lets the GC run at normal speed. Typically, it only needs to run once every two days to a week, but most lamp timers cycle daily, so most people just turn off the TA for three or four hours a night. But GC will not run every night. Except in unusual circumstances, four hours is more than enough time for GC to complete with the TA off.

-- Doug


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## dlfl

DougJohnson said:


> ....
> Turning the TA off lets the GC run at normal speed. .......


Or just disconnecting the USB ..... although that can't be done with a lamp timer.


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## nooneuknow

dlfl said:


> Or just disconnecting the USB ..... although that can't be done with a lamp timer.


Using a USB hub that can be externally powered, that has a manual switch for selecting bus-power or external power, can be set to external, and will sever the link (same end results as pulling the USB cable), if the USB hub power supply is on a lamp timer.

As has been posted by another member, ravingfans, hubs without such a switch, will fallback to bus-power, and not work for this. This gave them the idea to sever the bus-power wires (which they found necessary on both in and out cables), on the USB cables, and it then worked with the lamp timer.

For those who have an abundance of extra USB cables around, and sacrificing (modifying) two of them, is in their wheelhouse, it's an option for those with the courage and skills to do so. One could also open up some hubs (the kind that are not glued shut), and sever the PCB traces for bus-power.

Otherwise, "USB travel hubs" for laptops/notebooks/tablets are the likely ones to possibly have a power selection switch. I'm not sure if any are still being made, or sold as new, that have a manual switch for bus/external power.


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## randywalters

tropicalGlenn said:


> With the TA/timer fix...does the TA have to be off when the GC thread just happens to execute? Or does the TA disappearing somehow stimulate the GC thread to run. Or E) None of the Above.  People seem to be using many different approaches as to how often and how long the TA is cycled for.


My GC started getting stuck for the first time about 3 months ago and got stuck about 4 times after that during the next month, but has has been updating normally every 2 days since that period of instability (i've been checking it daily).

One of those times it was stuck for 4 to 5 days so i unplugged the USB and that allowed GC to update within a few hours. The next two times it got stuck for 4-5 days i turned the front switch off and monitored closely and my GC updated in 1:22 hrs the first time, and in 1:47 hrs the second time.

I had hoped to do more experimenting but since my GC has stopped getting stuck and has resumed updating itself normally for over a month now without the lamp timer so i haven't been able to do any more TA testing, but i'm keeping an eye on it in case it gets stuck again.

Another thing i've noticed is ever since the big TWC Channel Lineup a month ago, the TA's function has changed from simply tuning my 20 SDV channels i had before to now tuning almost all of my HD cable channels. When i turn the front switch off, a few of my HD channels still tune normally, but the vast majority of them now either revert to 480i Standard Def or they do not tune at all and i get a black screen and Channel Not Available message. Two people i've spoken with at TWC National CableCard Support about this both said that the TA is now playing a bigger role in tuning all of my HD channels and that most channels are now SDV with this new lineup.

Another odd thing is that both of my TAs have been 100% reliable since the big channel lineup change, where in the previous 3 years before the lineup change they would randomly stop tuning once or twice a month. I have guarded optimism that this new TA functionality has also improved it's reliability.


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## Teeps

randywalters said:


> Another odd thing is that both of my TAs have been 100% reliable since the big channel lineup change, where in the previous 3 years before the lineup change they would randomly stop tuning once or twice a month. I have guarded optimism that this new TA functionality has also improved it's reliability.


This is good news.
I've been pulling the plug on the T/A, that's on my XL4l,once a week to maintain a fresh boot(?) state.
Have not had a tuning problem since starting this work around.


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## randywalters

randywalters said:


> ....Another odd thing is that both of my TAs have been 100% reliable since the big channel lineup change, where in the previous 3 years before the lineup change they would randomly stop tuning once or twice a month. I have guarded optimism that this new TA functionality has also improved it's reliability.


Well it was a good run, but yesterday both of my TA's had stopped tuning while i was at work and none of my cable channels would tune on my two Tivos, yet the TA's indicator lights were still solid. I unplugged power on each of them for a minute then they tuned fine after re-connecting them. They've been on the whole time since Oct 9th (no timers) so that's a new record for me 

The fact that both TAs stopped working at the same time leads me to believe the failute-to-tune issue is at the head-end, not with the TA itself.

This unreliable TA issue is the biggest reason why i cannot use a cable-only Roamio in my house. At least on my S3 and S4 my antenna channels will still record when the TA stops tuning.


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## Teeps

randywalters said:


> This unreliable TA issue is the biggest reason why i cannot use a cable-only Roamio in my house. At least on my S3 and S4 my antenna channels will still record when the TA stops tuning.


Roger that!
It's really a shame that we have to make redundant recordings.

Randy,
Did network programming recorded last Thursday thru Sunday get copy protected?
Every thing recorded by my XL4 & S3 were copy protected so I was unable to transfer from one TiVo to the other. Can't stream either with S3...


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## randywalters

Teeps said:


> ....
> Randy, Did network programming recorded last Thursday thru Sunday get copy protected? Every thing recorded by my XL4 & S3 were copy protected so I was unable to transfer from one TiVo to the other. Can't stream either with S3...


I saw your post about that the other day so i made a few short test recordings on cable channels 2, 4, 5, 7, 11 etc then checked them on my PC and sure enough they were "Protected", but a few days later i tried it again and they were now downloadable. I didn't save the first round of recordings so i don't know if they would have been stuck at Protected, or changed so that they were downloadable (i don't transfer or download or stream so i'm not up on all that stuff). I record the locals over antenna.


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## unitron

Well now I can't find where I saw it in the past few days but somewhere around here one of the knowledgeable regulars recently explained about certain TAs needing new firmware downloaded, or at least that's how I remember it.


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## randywalters

unitron said:


> Well now I can't find where I saw it in the past few days but somewhere around here one of the knowledgeable regulars recently explained about certain TAs needing new firmware downloaded, or at least that's how I remember it.


My TWC firmware version is still STA1.0.0_1520_LR_F.1901 from early this year and it was supposed to fix tuning adapter request failures, but it did not fix it and i still got random tuning failures and missed recordings.

Cisco apparently had a newer version (STA1.0.0_1520_LR_F.2001) soon after that one that was also supposed to fix request failures but i don't think it worked either and it seems that TWC is still holding at version 1901.


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## dlfl

randywalters said:


> My TWC firmware version is still STA1.0.0_1520_LR_F.1901 from early this year and it was supposed to fix tuning adapter request failures, but it did not fix it and i still got random tuning failures and missed recordings.
> 
> Cisco apparently had a newer version (STA1.0.0_1520_LR_F.2001) soon after that one that was also supposed to fix request failures but i don't think it worked either and it seems that TWC is still holding at version 1901.


No, F.2001 doesn't fix the tuning failures, see this for example:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10331360#post10331360
I'm not sure all of TWC is holding at F.1901. My region is and who knows if it will ever update. In almost 6 years, they have updated only twice. The first update bricked every TA on their system for a day. Most TA-related problems are due to TWC ineptitude rather than hardware or software problems.


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## Teeps

randywalters said:


> I saw your post about that the other day so i made a few short test recordings on cable channels 2, 4, 5, 7, 11 etc then checked them on my PC and sure enough they were "Protected", but a few days later i tried it again and they were now downloadable. I didn't save the first round of recordings so i don't know if they would have been stuck at Protected, or changed so that they were downloadable (i don't transfer or download or stream so i'm not up on all that stuff). I record the locals over antenna.


The copy protected recordings on my XL4 & S3 are still copy protected.


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## [NG]Owner

trackie999 said:


> Please refresh our memory. What size & model HD are you using?
> 
> If your GC completes in 2 days, you could set up a firewall to block your Tivo from accessing 204.176.49.2 for guide downloads and see if that still works...


Apparently this IP address is no longer the sole IP address where our S3HDs can download guide data. All of a sudden (as in sometime August 2015) all three of my S3HDs are able to access guide data and successfully connect every day, despite this block being in place and having worked flawlessly for years.

For the time being I've blocked all access to the Internet to get rid of the dreaded Guide Data Has Run Out message because GC won't complete.

Does anyone have any information on which other IP addresses need to be blocked to prevent guide data downloads?

[NG]Owner


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## [NG]Owner

Never mind. My router apparently can't block by device MACID like the instructions said it could.

By internal IP address is fine.

Nothing to see here ... move along.

[NG]Owner


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## Larry Hutchinson

I will add my story to this very long thread, although I was tempted make a new topic.

I think this exact thing happened to me a few years ago.

My S3 uses the phone line. The calls were getting a bogus call interrupted at various times in the download phase. I tried various settings and phone numbers to no avail. I then (perhaps stupidly) decided to run the guided setup again but that failed when it tried to download data. There was no way to exit except for pulling the plug whereupon it starts the setup again. 

So, I scrounged up a long cat5 cable, hooked it up to my router and ran the setup using the internet. That worked fine and, lo and behold, the phone connection worked after that.

I don't know if the setup part was needed or if just using the internet would have been enough.


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## Larry Hutchinson

Happened again. This time the first attempt at downloading via the internet also claimed to have been interrupted. After a power cycle, the download worked and then the phone download also worked.


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## unitron

Larry Hutchinson said:


> Happened again. This time the first attempt at downloading via the internet also claimed to have been interrupted. After a power cycle, the download worked and then the phone download also worked.


A power cycle of what, specifically?

The TiVo?

The router?

The cable or DSL modem?

Some or all of the above?


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## Larry Hutchinson

Both the TiVo and the router/cable modem. I imagine only the TiVo needed it.


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## unitron

Larry Hutchinson said:


> Both the TiVo and the router/cable modem. I imagine only the TiVo needed it.


Probably not, but it never hurts to reboot the entire network.

Unless there was something that was fixin' to fail anyway.


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## brycepowell

Here's the situation: I have a PROM-modded TiVo HD. I get an error N17 whenever I try to connect to the TiVo service to move forward with Guided Setup. Therefore, I can't get "Tiny TiVo" as a provider option. How can I fix this error?


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