# How Poll: How Many Streams will TiVo Sell in the six months?



## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

I've read somewhere that there are about 500,000 Premiere boxes in circulation out of the current million or so TiVo Retail subscribers. We can theorize that there may be something like 1,000 Streams already sold. How many subscribers and new subscriber will be convinced to buy the TiVo Stream accessory?


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

The stream is interesting. The Mini is the one which may get me to finally upgrade to a premiere.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

SullyND said:


> The stream is interesting. The Mini is the one which may get me to finally upgrade to a premiere.


It makes me wonder how many of the 500,000 or so Series 2 & 3 users will upgrade...


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I would think the Mini will be more popular than the Stream. I wish the Mini was released first.

Besides you can only use the stream right now if you use Apple products. The majority of the market is Android products. So if they drag their feet in releasing Android support, then that will limit their sales potential for the stream as well.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> I would think the Mini will be more popular than the Stream. I wish the Mini was released first.
> 
> Besides you can only use the stream right now if you use Apple products. The majority of the market is Android products. So if they drag their feet in releasing Android support, then that will limit their sales potential for the stream as well.


As of February 2012, Apple has sold 55 million iPads. I personally think the iPad is the main target and use case for the Stream.

source: http://www.quora.com/iPad/How-many-iPads-have-been-sold-till-March-2012


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## NotVeryWitty (Oct 3, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> The majority of the market is Android products. So if they drag their feet in releasing Android support, then that will limit their sales potential for the stream as well.


The main market for this is tablets, not phones. And despite what the Apple-haters want to believe, the majority of the tablet market, by a wide margin, is iPad. When Apple releases the iPad Mini, I suspect the margin will grow even larger.

The Android market is much more fractured too -- many more OS versions to deal with, and more product variations.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

NotVeryWitty said:


> The main market for this is tablets, not phones. And despite what the Apple-haters want to believe, the majority of the tablet market, by a wide margin, is iPad. When Apple releases the iPad Mini, I suspect the margin will grow even larger.
> 
> The Android market is much more fractured too -- many more OS versions to deal with, and more product variations.


I am an android fan but you hit the nail on the head


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## button1066 (Sep 4, 2012)

aaronwt said:


> I would think the Mini will be more popular than the Stream. I wish the Mini was released first.
> 
> Besides you can only use the stream right now if you use Apple products. The majority of the market is Android products. So if they drag their feet in releasing Android support, then that will limit their sales potential for the stream as well.


I was looking forward more to the Stream than the Mini. Depending on what the Mini ends up being like I might even prefer to buy another premiere with lifetime to do the same job but better and with extra tuners.

As far as the Stream goes it is as close to a killer app as TiVo has released in a long time. I think it boosts the desirability of a TiVo over other DVRs through the roof.


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

button1066 said:


> As far as the Stream goes it is as close to a killer app as TiVo has released in a long time. I think it boosts the desirability of a TiVo over other DVRs through the roof.


Definitely. $129 is pretty darn cheap, and I feel like if they *could* get the price under $100, that would've made it even more desirable. Perhaps the development and production costs just aren't low enough for an item that has no direct subscription fees.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

modnar said:


> Definitely. $129 is pretty darn cheap, and I feel like if they *could* get the price under $100, that would've made it even more desirable. Perhaps the development and production costs just aren't low enough for an item that has no direct subscription fees.


I agree. I will purchase at some point in the future but 99 would have been impluse enough for me to do now


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I don't see it breaking 5000 unless they expand functionality to support desktop, laptops, and Android. 

Now if someone gets it working with KMTTG I could see it selling a few more. I don't see it breaking 10k though.


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## Teeps (Aug 16, 2001)

innocentfreak said:


> I don't see it breaking 5000 unless they expand functionality to support desktop, laptops, and Android.
> 
> Now if someone gets it working with KMTTG I could see it selling a few more. I don't see it breaking 10k though.


Agreed.
And, even if they did expand support as above... For me this article makes it a non starter: http://www.multichannel.com/article/489163-TiVo_Stream_Blocks_DVR_Content_Flagged_Copy_Once_.php

I cannot understand why anyone would want to watch HD material on a 7" screen. Seems like an oxymoron.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

How many of those 500,000 Premieres are cable company provided? From what I've read the Stream won't work with Premiere's provided by cable companies, only user bought Premieres.

According to TiVo's latest quarterly results, they only have 1,057,000 customer owned subscribers compared with 1,658,000 MSO subscribers. Those numbers should include customers with lifetime service on the Premiere since the amortization period for the Premiere shouldn't be up yet. The number also includes Series 1, 2 and 3 boxes with month to month subscriptions.

In any case, based on the number of people who jumped at the chance to pre-order a Stream (less than 20 people based on posts in these forums), I'd say TiVo will have a hard time selling 5000 of these by March. Not unless the price drops.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Teeps said:


> Agreed.
> And, even if they did expand support as above... For me this article makes it a non starter: http://www.multichannel.com/article/489163-TiVo_Stream_Blocks_DVR_Content_Flagged_Copy_Once_.php
> 
> I cannot understand why anyone would want to watch HD material on a 7" screen. Seems like an oxymoron.


The headline on that article is very misleading. The Stream can stream anything, no matter how it's protected. The only thing it blocks is offline downloading, which is to be expected as TiVoToGo has the same restrictions.

Dan


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

sbiller said:


> As of February 2012, Apple has sold 55 million iPads. I personally think the iPad is the main target and use case for the Stream.
> 
> source: http://www.quora.com/iPad/How-many-iPads-have-been-sold-till-March-2012


So they have actually sold 55 million iPads in the US? I would have thought it was lower. That is 17% of the US population which is amazing.

Sent from my HTC ReZound using Forum Runner


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> So they have actually sold 55 million iPads in the US? I would have thought it was lower. That is 17% of the US population which is amazing.
> 
> Sent from my HTC ReZound using Forum Runner


I think that is a global number but I would guess its north of 40 in the US.


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## d_anders (Oct 12, 2000)

I'm sure there will be some bundling deals for black friday and Christmas/Holiday shopping. It's a great way to sell Premiere's this Fall/Winter, and it makes for a nice add-on for existing premiere customers who have Ipads.

TiVo knows the potential for this because they know exactly how many people have downloaded and are using the TiVo app with their premieres...they will definitely be able to push targeted marketing directly to those customers with their TiVo Premieres and using the app.

It's definitely a killer app/device, and yes, with the eventual Android app update, it should have even better potential. 

If TiVo is smart, they will also update TivoDesktop to be able to connect to it as well for faster downloads to PCs.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

d_anders said:


> If TiVo is smart, they will also update TivoDesktop to be able to connect to it as well for faster downloads to PCs.


+1

The Desktop app has been stale for way too long. They need to update it badly. In addition to Stream support to the desktop they also need to add H.26 pull support without recoding, and updated music and photos apps. If they can tie this all together, and finally finish the HDUI, then I think they will really be back in the game.

Dan


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

I think they can easily beat 15,000 units.


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## rtmoore4 (May 12, 2005)

Teeps said:


> I cannot understand why anyone would want to watch HD material on a 7" screen. Seems like an oxymoron.


Then you don't have one of the new iPads with the Retina display. On it's 9.6" screen, HD content is glorious.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

rtmoore4 said:


> Then you don't have one of the new iPads with the Retina display. On it's 9.6" screen, HD content is glorious.


I don't care how pretty it looks if it is only 9.6". I would rather watch on a 27" CRT at that point. Just like I would rather watch on the 58" Plasma over the 50" Plasma.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

innocentfreak said:


> I don't care how pretty it looks if it is only 9.6". I would rather watch on a 27" CRT at that point. Just like I would rather watch on the 58" Plasma over the 50" Plasma.


Sometime it's more convenient to use an iPad. Like in my case my wife wont allow me to put a full size TV in the bedroom because it's too loud and bright. But she's fine with me using my iPad on my night stand. In that case it's only like a foot from my face so the video quality looks just fine. It's also nice to watch a movie while you're on a plane or in a hotel room with a ****ty CRT TV.

Dan


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Dan203 said:


> Sometime it's more convenient to use an iPad. Like in my case my wife wont allow me to put a full size TV in the bedroom because it's too loud and bright. But she's fine with me using my iPad on my night stand. In that case it's only like a foot from my face so the video quality looks just fine. It's also nice to watch a movie while you're on a plane or in a hotel room with a ****ty CRT TV.
> 
> Dan


On a plane and traveling I think it makes perfect sense.

I just can't see me watching video on the iPad when I have a choice of a TV in front of me. Of course I don't have a wife so I didn't have any objections to looking at a 50" for my bedroom.

I assume it looks great and would have no problems with the quality, but I just couldn't get into watching something on that small of a screen. I never watch video on my phone either though. If anything I would use it for background noise like playing a concert or standup.


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## Teeps (Aug 16, 2001)

rtmoore4 said:


> Then you don't have one of the new iPads with the Retina display. On it's 9.6" screen, HD content is glorious.


You're right; and unless I win or inherit one probably never will.
I'll take your word that a 9.6" screen can appear "glorious."

It's amazing how marketing gets into peoples' minds.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Teeps said:


> It's amazing how marketing gets into peoples' minds.


Whether or not a screen looks good is a separate issue from the size of the screen.

Of course, I don't want to do the majority of my TV viewing on a 9.6" screen when I have a 55" screen in the other room. But, for those times I want to use a small screen, it's a hell of a good picture. I'm working right now, and am much happier watching my iPad than a 9.6" PIP window on my ultrasharp monitor. Tivo Stream is working for me as expected.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Will also be good for watching TV in the kitchen while cooking. I don't cook much, but for a few special occasions I bake and it can take hours. Normally I blare the TV in the other room for some background noise, but now I can just put my iPad on the counter somewhere and actually watch it. (or at least glace at it every once in a while)

Dan


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## d_anders (Oct 12, 2000)

Teeps said:


> "It's amazing how marketing gets into peoples' minds."


You haven't discovered the ease and convenience of using a tablet yet for reading, and consuming content.

There are a lot of people that only have laptops (and when it comes time to refresh many now are opting to buy a tablet (ios or Android)), and the exercise is the same for consuming content, and the personal ease and experience on a tablet is even easier.

When you are sitting on a chair and chair, and it's only 1-2 feet from you, video on an Ipad is very good. I've got an Ipad2 and it's fine, but I have seen ipad3 's screen in action and it is an amazing screen for a tablet.

It's also been a life saver for travel (car and air travel) with two children, and now with Tivo Stream it is another world. Just before a trip, I would need to make it 2 hour excercise to pull video through Tivo Desktop, have it convert for ipad, and then finally download it to the Ipad. Now it's effortless.

Marketing doesn't convince people like me of a tablet's utility, experience does.


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## NYHeel (Oct 7, 2003)

innocentfreak said:


> I don't care how pretty it looks if it is only 9.6". I would rather watch on a 27" CRT at that point. Just like I would rather watch on the 58" Plasma over the 50" Plasma.


Screen size is irrelevant by itself. Only screen size and distance from your eyes together is relevant. That 9.6" screen at about 1' from your eyes likely looks much "bigger" than a 27" tv that is 10' away from your eyes. I'd rather watch a 50" tv at 8' than a 58" one at 16'.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

NYHeel said:


> Screen size is irrelevant by itself. Only screen size and distance from your eyes together is relevant. That 9.6" screen at about 1' from your eyes likely looks much "bigger" than a 27" tv that is 10' away from your eyes. I'd rather watch a 50" tv at 8' than a 58" one at 16'.


Not for me it isn't. I don't find the iPad immersive at all. It doesn't matter where I hold it. I don't find watching video that way enjoyable.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

I like streaming live TV (CNBC) to my iPad as a 3rd screen TV when I'm working at my desk.










I do wish I had a way to tell it to keep going automatically at the end of a program slot.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I just use my second monitor for video, not to mention the TV a few feet away.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Obviously the Stream is not a perfect fit for everyone. But there are legitimate uses for it and discounting them because they don't apply to you is sort of annoying.

Dan


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## NotVeryWitty (Oct 3, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> Obviously the Stream is not a perfect fit for everyone. But there are legitimate uses for it and discounting them because they don't apply to you is sort of annoying.


More than sort of...


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## Austin Bike (Feb 9, 2003)

innocentfreak said:


> I don't see it breaking 5000 unless they expand functionality to support desktop, laptops, and Android.
> 
> Now if someone gets it working with KMTTG I could see it selling a few more. I don't see it breaking 10k though.


I have to disagree. This summer we took a trip to Europe and I loaded both iPads with lots of content for the trip. While kmttg was great and the commercial skip was awesome, I spent way too much time selecting shows, having my pc tied up for days (8 core state of the art system) and then having to mess with iTunes to get it on the iPad. Last night I picked up my iPad, went down the menu and selected "download". I was watching the daily show in high def in less than 10 minutes. As someone who flys 150k+ miles a year, this is the best accessory EVER.

Kmttg might be "better" but stream is a product for the masses.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

When the first iPod added video support, back when we were still using S2 TiVos, this is something I suggested to TiVo. (side loading only, not streaming) Back then the hardware to accomplish it was probably prohibitively expensive, but directly downloading shows from TiVo to a portable device has been a dream of mine for a long time. I'm happy to see it finally come true.

Dan


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Austin Bike said:


> I have to disagree. This summer we took a trip to Europe and I loaded both iPads with lots of content for the trip. While kmttg was great and the commercial skip was awesome, I spent way too much time selecting shows, having my pc tied up for days (8 core state of the art system) and then having to mess with iTunes to get it on the iPad. Last night I picked up my iPad, went down the menu and selected "download". I was watching the daily show in high def in less than 10 minutes. As someone who flys 150k+ miles a year, this is the best accessory EVER.
> 
> Kmttg might be "better" but stream is a product for the masses.


If you could use KMTTG with the Stream you wouldn't be tying up your PC all day since you wouldn't need to transcode. Also with KMTTG no need to manually select shows since you could setup autotransfers for the series you want to be available.

Depending on what you use to play video you could just use Diskaid to copy the videos over to the app. Of course right now you can't do that with the TiVo app.


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## Austin Bike (Feb 9, 2003)

But the reality is that people want stuff that just works. Simply. With the same interface.

I have been in tech for 20+ years and am constantly barraged with the "why do people spend so much for X when you could do it all by combining a, b and c?"

Desktop Linux is a great example. 

Non-apple tablets.

People don't want to pay more for windows, but it's what everyone uses. 

People would love to pay less for a tablet, but apple has all the best apps and people know the interface. 

I am in the same camp. I don't want to take the call at 3am in hong kong when my wife can't get something to print. 

That is why I have TiVo. And for $130, stream is a better solution for people like me. Most civilians can't get their head around having a pc in the middle of all of this. They have shows on their TiVo and they want to watch them on their iPad. This is the simplest way. Stream live or 10 minutes to download is way easier than kmttg. 

A friend wanted to see Anthony bourdon in Austin. Kmttg took hours to turn that into something he could see. Instead in a few minutes I could drop it on my iPad and walk over to his house.


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## en sabur nur (Oct 30, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> but directly downloading shows from TiVo to a portable device has been a dream of mine for a long time. I'm happy to see it finally come true.
> 
> Dan


It's been a dream of mine for a long time too. I just brought home the last TiVo Premiere 4 from Best Buy. Next purchase: TiVo Stream.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Austin Bike said:


> That is why I have TiVo. And for $130, stream is a better solution for people like me. Most civilians can't get their head around having a pc in the middle of all of this. They have shows on their TiVo and they want to watch them on their iPad. This is the simplest way. Stream live or 10 minutes to download is way easier than kmttg.


I'd still like to see the Stream supported on the PC. That way I could download files to my PC already transcoded, pop out the commercials in VideoReDo and then upload to my iPad. That would save space on my iPad and make it so I didn't have to worry about FFing through the commercials. Plus it creates a demand for VideoReDo which keeps me employed. 

Another cool thing would be if TiVo could utilize the Stream for TiVo to TiVo transfers to save space. Or even have the TiVo stream the recoded video back to itself to reduce the file size of a recording. TiVos can play H.264 video just fine and the file size is significantly smaller then the source MPEG-2 files so it could free up some space if you were running low.

Dan


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

en sabur nur said:


> It I just brought home the last TiVo Premiere 4 from Best Buy.


If you're switching from multiple two tuner units you're going to love the Premiere 4. Not having to manage two separate To Do Lists it fantastic.

Dan


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## agredon (Jul 26, 2011)

Dan203 said:


> The headline on that article is very misleading. The Stream can stream anything, no matter how it's protected. The only thing it blocks is offline downloading, which is to be expected as TiVoToGo has the same restrictions.
> 
> Dan


TiVo's own site is misleading....



> Not all programs may be transferred using TiVo Stream due to the use of copy protection mechanisms permitted under the FCC's encoding rules. Some shows cannot be transferred due to the copy protection assigned them by the program provider. These shows usually are marked with a red circle-slash icon. (47 C.F.R. 76.1904)


This wording would lead one to believe that the TiVo Stream can do nothing with Copy-Once or Copy-Never recordings, as it makes no distinction between streaming and copying. When I first read this, I like I'm sure many others interpreted this to mean that the TiVo Stream was simply doing MRV and not really streaming...and thusly was of no help with copy protected recordings.


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## agredon (Jul 26, 2011)

aaronwt said:


> So they have actually sold 55 million iPads in the US? I would have thought it was lower. That is 17% of the US population which is amazing.
> 
> Sent from my HTC ReZound using Forum Runner


Some people have more than one and businesses own some. I don't own one myself, but I use one at work.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

agredon said:


> This wording would lead one to believe that the TiVo Stream can do nothing with Copy-Once or Copy-Never recordings, as it makes no distinction between streaming and copying.


Made sense to me. It says not all shows can be "transferred", and higher up it makes a clear distinction between streaming and transferring. Plus you just have to think about the iPad as another TiVo. You can stream anything TiVo to TiVo, but you can only MRV things that are not protected. The Stream works the same way just with a transcoding device in the middle to convert the video into a format the iPad can play.

Dan


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## NYHeel (Oct 7, 2003)

innocentfreak said:


> Not for me it isn't. I don't find the iPad immersive at all. It doesn't matter where I hold it. I don't find watching video that way enjoyable.


I hear that but just realize that it has more to do with what you're used to and comfortable with than actual screen size.

I also prefer watching TV on my TV than on my ipad. But I realize that it's mostly based on a lifetime of habit and comfort doing it one way. It's the same reason I don't love watching TV on my desktop computer even with a nice 24" screen.

With that said I still like watching on the ipad and find this helpful when the kids are on the TV or the TV is otherwise unavailable. I actually like this better than a slingbox because I can watch something on it when my kids are watching one of their shows. I don't like the idea of having many TVs in my house and this provides an extra viewing opportunity when necessary. If only they allowed out of network streaming.


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## Austin Bike (Feb 9, 2003)

agredon said:


> TiVo's own site is misleading....
> 
> This wording would lead one to believe that the TiVo Stream can do nothing with Copy-Once or Copy-Never recordings, as it makes no distinction between streaming and copying. When I first read this, I like I'm sure many others interpreted this to mean that the TiVo Stream was simply doing MRV and not really streaming...and thusly was of no help with copy protected recordings.


I am going to guess that this is just their way of covering their butts. There are all kinds of flags on digital content and can be wrong for no apparent reason. It's probably easier to put that warning in, it gives them a way to dodge the calls or at least get people off of support calls quickly.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Email promo claims that response has been "overwhelming" and quantities are limited. Sounds like they underestimated on their first production run.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

nrc said:


> Email promo claims that response has been "overwhelming" and quantities are limited. Sounds like they underestimated on their first production run.


Email promo??


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

sbiller said:


> Email promo??


TiVo marketing sent out an email earlier today, presumably to those that signed up to be notified when the Stream was available. There was no promo offer, at least not in the one I received, except for free shipping if you bought a DVR which they have had forever.


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## walkingdogs (Jan 18, 2010)

NotVeryWitty said:


> The main market for this is tablets, not phones. And despite what the Apple-haters want to believe, the majority of the tablet market, by a wide margin, is iPad. When Apple releases the iPad Mini, I suspect the margin will grow even larger.
> 
> The Android market is much more fractured too -- many more OS versions to deal with, and more product variations.


And this is exactly why I will not be buying a TiVo stream, yet. The main market that they are neglecting is every person with a Tivo and a laptop or a computer at their office or another room in their house where a TV is not present which dwarfs the number the iPads out there. And when Windows 8 arrives and the massive amount of new mobile devices that will be coming I certainly hope they don't drag their feet on supporting this OS. There will be more windows 8 devices in the first year than Apple and Andorid OEM's have sold in 3 years.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

walkingdogs said:


> There will be more windows 8 devices in the first year than Apple and Andorid OEM's have sold in 3 years.


If you're counting laptops then maybe. But I doubt that will be true of tablet form factor devices. Apple has sold something like 70 million iPads since they were released. It's going to take a long time for MS to catch up to that, if it ever can.

However I do hope they add this functionality to TiVo Desktop or a Win8 app. I'd really like to be able to copy shows to my PC already recoded for iPad. Then I could just quickly edit them in VideoReDo and copy them to the iPad. That'll allow me to cram a few more shows on my iPad because I wont have wasted space from the commercials.

Dan


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> However I do hope they add this functionality to TiVo Desktop or a Win8 app. I'd really like to be able to copy shows to my PC already recoded for iPad. Then I could just quickly edit them in VideoReDo and copy them to the iPad. That'll allow me to cram a few more shows on my iPad because I wont have wasted space from the commercials.
> 
> Dan


I'm sure the content owners are anxious to get this done!


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## walkingdogs (Jan 18, 2010)

Dan203 said:


> If you're counting laptops then maybe. But I doubt that will be true of tablet form factor devices. Apple has sold something like 70 million iPads since they were released. It's going to take a long time for MS to catch up to that, if it ever can.
> 
> However I do hope they add this functionality to TiVo Desktop or a Win8 app. I'd really like to be able to copy shows to my PC already recoded for iPad. Then I could just quickly edit them in VideoReDo and copy them to the iPad. That'll allow me to cram a few more shows on my iPad because I wont have wasted space from the commercials.
> 
> Dan


Outside of Win RT tablets, which I do feel will struggle with adoption, a good chunk of Win 8 devices will be hybrid devices that will offer both tablet and laptop functionality so in a years time there will be a huge amount of these devices in the market. As of Oct 26 and going forward every new laptop, convertable, desktop, AIO or tablet that is windows based will be running Windows 8 or Windows RT. 70 million windows devices sold in a year worldwide is easily reached. Windows 8 is going to make standalone tablets redundant devices. Just look at the Surface Pro for one example of what is coming.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

walkingdogs said:


> Windows 8 is going to make standalone tablets redundant devices. Just look at the Surface Pro for one example of what is coming.


That's debatable. For businesses maybe, but I think most consumers are coming to realize that they don't really need a full blown PC for their daily usage. The convertible tablets are going to be popular among workers, but I think consumers are really starting to move into a post-PC era. So the question really is... can the RT tablets can make any inroads in that space? They may eventually, but I think it's going to take a lot longer then a year to dethrone Apple. Even Android, which has a majority share of the phone market, is struggling in the tablet space.

I'm not saying Apple is unbeatable, I just think it's going to take more then a year for it to happen.

Dan


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

sbiller said:


> I'm sure the content owners are anxious to get this done!


They may not be, but given my business stake in this I really hope TiVo is going to do it anyway. 

Dan


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## walkingdogs (Jan 18, 2010)

Dan203 said:


> That's debatable. For businesses maybe, but I think most consumers are coming to realize that they don't really need a full blown PC for their daily usage. The convertible tablets are going to be popular among workers, but I think consumers are really starting to move into a post-PC era. So the question really is... can the RT tablets can make any inroads in that space? They may eventually, but I think it's going to take a lot longer then a year to dethrone Apple. Even Android, which has a majority share of the phone market, is struggling in the tablet space.
> 
> I'm not saying Apple is unbeatable, I just think it's going to take more then a year for it to happen.
> 
> Dan


Since the OEM's are once again going to play the race to the bottom with the hybrid devices, why would a consumer spend $600 on a 32gb ipad when they could spend a little more on a device that serves all the purposes of a tablet and also runs every piece of traditional software and interfaces with all their other peripherals that they are accustomed to and already own? That is going to be the beauty of Windows 8, and once customers realize that the allure of the iPad and tablet only devices will tarnish, and that is why i think Win RT will struggle. Windows 8 is truly a consumer OS and businesses will stick to deploying Windows 7. I know that Apple won't be beat in a year, if ever, but their market share will have a big dent in it very quickly.

I am disappointed that TiVo is limiting their potential customer base with a device like the TiVo stream by just making it iOS compatible. They are cutting off their nose despite their face. How they do not have a Windows client is not understandable.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

walkingdogs said:


> Since the OEM's are once again going to play the race to the bottom with the hybrid devices, why would a consumer spend $600 on a 32gb ipad when they could spend a little more on a device that serves all the purposes of a tablet and also runs every piece of traditional software and interfaces with all their other peripherals that they are accustomed to and already own?


Because most people don't really need to run anything other then the built in apps anyway. The vast majority of consumer PC users use it to browse the web, check email and light document/photo editing. A full blown Windows 8 machine is overkill for them. So it all comes down to ease of use. I've been a Windows user for 20 years and no version has ever been easy to use. Especially when you start throwing third party apps and peripherals into the mix. iOS's walled garden approach may be limiting, but it's extremely easy to use and maintain. I'm not sure Windows 8 will be quite so polished on it's first iteration.

Not to mention MS has gone out of their way to make using the Desktop portion of Win8 as difficult as possible. They want to force people into Metro, so the appeal of running all those apps you already own is going to ware of rather quickly.



walkingdogs said:


> I am disappointed that TiVo is limiting their potential customer base with a device like the TiVo stream by just making it iOS compatible. They are cutting off their nose despite their face. How they do not have a Windows client is not understandable.


It's iOS specific right now, but there is nothing built into the hardware them from expanding to other platforms. In fact they're working on Android support right now. And based on a little bit of poking around I did it seems the stream uses standard JSON scripting for commands and HLS for streaming, so pretty much anything should be possible down the road.

Dan


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> However I do hope they add this functionality to TiVo Desktop or a Win8 app. I'd really like to be able to copy shows to my PC already recoded for iPad. Then I could just quickly edit them in VideoReDo and copy them to the iPad. That'll allow me to cram a few more shows on my iPad because I wont have wasted space from the commercials.
> 
> Dan


How much time would you save versus what it takes for VRD to recode to iPad specs (I noticed it provides an iPad profile)?
Do you usually transfer THAT much material and convert it for your iPad?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

A quick edit of an H.264 file takes a few seconds. A full recode, even on my i7, takes about 45 minutes per hour of content. Not to mention the transfer from a Stream is faster then a TTG to the PC. Probably because it's using the MRV interface instead of the TTG interface, which requires extra encryption and muxing steps.

The only time I ever really convert stuff for my iPad is when I go on vacation or a business trip. (maybe a couple times a year) But when I do I usually take a bunch of stuff because I don't know what I'll be in the mood to watch while I'm away.

Dan


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## en sabur nur (Oct 30, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> If you're switching from multiple two tuner units you're going to love the Premiere 4. Not having to manage two separate To Do Lists it fantastic.
> 
> Dan


I'm actually switching from a single TivoHD. I really like the extra two tuners and faster transfers!


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## en sabur nur (Oct 30, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> I'd still like to see the Stream supported on the PC. That way I could download files to my PC already transcoded, pop out the commercials in VideoReDo and then upload to my iPad. That would save space on my iPad and make it so I didn't have to worry about FFing through the commercials. Plus it creates a demand for VideoReDo which keeps me employed.
> 
> Exactly! I also hope that, eventually, the transfers to iPad can be done in the background. Right now, it's tying up my one iPad from being used for web browsing.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Can I change my vote? I originally voted 5K to 10K. But with all these DOA units I would pick greater than 15K now.

As soon as they add Android support I'll be getting one. Unless a Best Buy 10% off coupon shows up soon. Then I'll go ahead and get it prior to the Android support.


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## DaveMachin (Aug 7, 2006)

Watched a bunch of shows from the hammock in the back yard yesterday while the wife was watching her shows on the regular TV. Worked flawlessly, even with a WiFi connected TiVo. I think the stream has made the iPad app a real killer app - finally it does what I thought it should have done from the beginning.

I do wish that if I paused the show on the iPad, that it would update the TiVo's show's pause point to match. That way when I came back inside I could continue watching from where I stopped on the iPad.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Dan203 said:


> Sometime it's more convenient to use an iPad. Like in my case my wife wont allow me to put a full size TV in the bedroom because it's too loud and bright. But she's fine with me using my iPad on my night stand. In that case it's only like a foot from my face so the video quality looks just fine. It's also nice to watch a movie while you're on a plane or in a hotel room with a ****ty CRT TV.
> 
> Dan


Just getting to this thread and you remind me of my aunt/uncle in California. She won't let him have a TV in the bedroom either. He uses his iPad there accessing my Vulkano in Colorado every night using a BT headset and complains when it needs resetting every few months. (I don't know why he doesn't just get his own place shifting box.)

Right now, I'm debating on getting one of these devices. It would mean either getting another Premiere or moving TiVos and other equipment around the house.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Beryl said:


> Right now, I'm debating on getting one of these devices. It would mean either getting another Premiere or moving TiVos and other equipment around the house.


Why? It's just networking. Connect the Stream anywhere on the network and it will work. Even if your TiVo is connected via Wifi it should still work well enough to support 1 stream.

Dan


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Dan203 said:


> Why? It's just networking. Connect the Stream anywhere on the network and it will work. Even if your TiVo is connected via Wifi it should still work well enough to support 1 stream.
> 
> Dan


My family room Tivo HD doesn't have a place-shifting device attached but has the recordings I'd like to access remotely. The Stream would be cool because of how it doesn't interfere with what is being watched on the family room TV.

Although my Vulkano is connected to the same TV as the HD, it is not connected to it at all. It is attached to the "free" Comcast SD cable box for the rare times we want OnDemand content (albeit SD) in the family room by switching inputs and remotely accessing content not available online.

My bedroom Premiere has a Slingbox attached to it and I can access everything (including protected stuff) anywhere in the world. No one cares if I take control of what is being watched on that TV so a Stream isn't needed there.

So, to use a Stream, I'd need to swap the Tivos and other devices from one room to another or upgrade the HD and lose all of the protected recordings on it. (A First World problem.)


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I see

I don't think you lose anything when you upgrade if you image the old drive to the new one first. 

Dan


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