# Roamio Pro locking up



## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

I received my Roamio Pro on October 31st and it was working fine up until 2 days ago. The last 2 days in a row when I turned my TV on around 5pm the TiVo video was frozen and the front panel green/yellow button would not work. I had to unplug and replug the TiVo in to get it back and things where fine until the next day and same thing again.

The only thing that changed was I received a 2nd remote, I leave one near my bed and one near my couch. When I received the 2nd remote it worked just like the first in RF mode. Only difference I notice is when I push the remote finder button on the TiVo only the original remote makes the sounds. Both remotes are working in RF though.

Does anyone know if this could be causing the lockup? I took the batteries out of the new remote and am going to see if it is locked up again tomorrow. Not sure what else could be causing it.

My cat always sleeps on top of it but he always slept on the Premiere and that was never an issue. Plus it was fine for a whole week until I got a 2nd remote.

Anyone else have anything like this happen?

-Joe


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

Uggg it locked up again a 3rd night in a row  I had it on all day today listening to a music channel then tonight right at 8pm when it started to record 3 shows at once it froze while I was watching something previously recorded.

I called up TiVo and talked to tech support. They said when it freezes it usually means it's not getting enough power and if its plugged into a power strip plug it directly into the wall. I had it plugged into a UPS and its the same place my TiVo Premiere was for several months and before that my series 3 HD for several years. I don't know how safe it is plugging it directly into the wall with no surge supressor and when the power goes out now the TiVo will restart even for small brown outs. That's why I always had it on a UPS.

They said the new hardware requires more power and is more sensitive than the older models. So I'm not sure what this means. I only have till the 28th to decide on my money back guarantee but this was $975 with lifetime subscription and extended service plan.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this?

-Joe


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## ltxi (Feb 14, 2010)

Well, if the problem started immediately coincident with firing up and using up the second remote...... But if the problem continues, R&R it before the 30 day cut off. I had a Plus that went infant mortality south after a few days and returned it. Replacement is working fine.

As to your experience with the idiot dope smoking Indian TiVo CS rep....he/she was an idiot dope smoking CS rep.


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

I stopped using the second remote and even took the batteries out. I never even paired it, just worked out of the box. For now I did what the CSR said and plugged it directly into the wall outlet. If that fixes it, something is seriously wrong when electronics can't use Surge Supressors or a UPS.

As for the CSR whenever I have contacted TiVo its always an american and I can totally understand them. They just read the screen though I'm sure so some tech had to of put that in there.

I called when I first got the box because when I pushed the yellow button the remote finder wasn't working. The first thing they asked me was if it was plugged directly into the wall or in a surge supressor so this must be some issue that is going on with the new boxes. The remote finder didnt work until I restarted the box. So maybe I do have a bad one.

-Joe


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

jrock said:


> I called up TiVo and talked to tech support. They said when it freezes it usually means it's not getting enough power and if its plugged into a power strip plug it directly into the wall.


It belongs plugged into a UPS. Although it could be your UPS is defective and when it trips, it supplies dirty enough power to cause issues.

Since you eliminated that, It sounds like you have a defective unit to me and will need a replacement.



> They said the new hardware requires more power and is more sensitive than the older models. So I'm not sure what this means.


It is mostly BS


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## Devx (Jun 1, 2006)

+1 on replacing the unit. Could be the power supply or the hard drive in the Pro going bad early, either way, replacing the unit fixes both.


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## ltxi (Feb 14, 2010)

jrock said:


> I stopped using the second remote and even took the batteries out. I never even paired it, just worked out of the box. For now I did what the CSR said and plugged it directly into the wall outlet. If that fixes it, something is seriously wrong when electronics can't use Surge Supressors or a UPS.
> 
> As for the CSR whenever I have contacted TiVo its always an american and I can totally understand them. They just read the screen though I'm sure so some tech had to of put that in there.
> 
> ...


Taking back the part about dope smoking Indians when it comes to TiVo CS folk....I can actually sorta understand their asking about surge suppressors. There is some real, 99 cent, junk out there passing themselves off as such and a CS rep has no way of knowing if you're using something APC or something made out of fermented Chinese toe nail clippings.

Given you're using good surge suppressor or UPS, those or a wall outlet aren't germane to your issue.

I agree, btw, that one should be using an UPS for electronic devices one cares about. Learned the hard way...via a lightning strike on a cable head about 25 yards out behind the house back in '97.


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## Floridaman (Oct 30, 2005)

jrock said:


> Uggg it locked up again a 3rd night in a row  I had it on all day today listening to a music channel then tonight right at 8pm when it started to record 3 shows at once it froze while I was watching something previously recorded.
> 
> I called up TiVo and talked to tech support. They said when it freezes it usually means it's not getting enough power and if its plugged into a power strip plug it directly into the wall. I had it plugged into a UPS and its the same place my TiVo Premiere was for several months and before that my series 3 HD for several years. I don't know how safe it is plugging it directly into the wall with no surge supressor and when the power goes out now the TiVo will restart even for small brown outs. That's why I always had it on a UPS.
> 
> ...


I live in Florida and all of my electronics are hooked into a power conditioner with a battery backup. We have numerous power surges especially in the summer and I wouldn't even consider plugging a component into the wall. The Roamio Pro is plugged into the battery backup outlet on the conditioner so if the power surges the Roamio doesn't reboot. If Tivo thinks plugging a unit into the wall will resolve the problem they are wrong. If you had a bad UPS you would know it because there would be an indicator light telling you it is bad unless you have a really cheap surge protector.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I wouldn't blame the TiVo rep for suggesting to eliminate using a UPS/surge protector. That's just a troubleshooting technique to eliminate one of the variables.
I would blame him for the misleading info, though. He shouldn't be making stuff up. Of course he could actually believe what he's saying, and that's a sad state of affairs if that is the case.
*Temporarily* plugging the Tivo directly into the wall plug won't hurt anything as long as you don't have something going on (like bad weather) when you do it. When troubleshooting a Tivo, you want to eliminate all external possibilities that *could* affect the troubleshooting process.

Not getting enough power is a good one. What do Tivos use now, 24 watts?
A typical electrical circuit has something like 1800 watts available for use as long as there are no problems with the electrical service delivery (e.g. low voltage).


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

Well oddly enough since I have plugged it into the wall it hasn't locked up. Its been one and a half days so I'm still waiting to see if it does again.

I have a good UPS its pretty old but I just changed the batteries back in may. It's a belkin with 1000va and has a lot of plugs so I do have a lot plugged into it. TV, Soundbar, Game Computer, Monitor, Phones, etc. I had the TiVo premiere plugged into the same exact place for the previous 6 months with no issues and before that a directv dvr for several years.

I have also been trying to deter my cat from sleeping on it. I used to have a directv dvr that ran pretty hot and he slept on it for ages with no issues. When I replaced it with the TiVo Premiere it had no heat at all but he still slept there out of habit. There where no issues with that either. Has anyone ever had an issue with a cat causing a TiVo to lock up? For now I have a can of compressed air on top of it and anytime he gets close I make a psssst noise and he goes flying out of the room so maybe that will work.

I'll give it a few more days then go back to the UPS if there are no lockups or maybe just get a small UPS for the TiVo itself. I think I have a small office one like a 350va somewhere.

-Joe


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## Diacritical (Jan 10, 2003)

Having the same problem here. System completely locked up twice so far in two weeks. Both times in the middle of the day while no one was home. I'll see if a wall outlet makes a difference, but nothing else seems to be bothered by the UPS power.


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

Well it will be 3 days without a lockup tonight so I guess I will plug it back into the UPS and see what happens.

There are 3 variables though that changed. The UPS, the cat staying off it, and leaving it unplugged for several minutes that it took me to get to the outlet deep behind the desk to move the plug from the UPS to the wall. The previous times I unplugged it I only waited 10 seconds or so.

The can of sprayed air on there seems to be working wonders for the cat  Though I was thinking I could also store my old series 3 HD spare TiVo on top of this one to use as a buffer in case the cat really didn't want to stay off.

On another note I tried to cancel the monthly sub for the old Series 3 because now I have a Premiere and a Roamio both with life times. The CSR did almost everything to get me not to cancel. They finally said they would give me 2 free months and if I can find someone to take it they will give me a $99 life time membership for it. I was like I'll try but I dunno. She was like you can give it to someone for a Christmas gift. I actually upgraded that one with a larger hard drive from weaknees but it only has two tuners and needs two cable cards so its kind of a drag compared to the newer ones.

-Joe


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I'm surprised it took TiVo that long to offer you the $99 deal. They have been doing that for a while.

If you haven't already, you should take them up on it. You'll be able to sell it for a profit.


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

Well it was fine for three nights so on Wednesday night I went to staples and bought a 600va APC UPS and put it on that. It was ok for over 24 hours then this morning I woke up and it was frozen 

So I dunno what's up with it. When it locks up again I may try just connecting it to the surge protection only portion of the UPS. I don't feel comfortable leaving it plugged directly into the wall with no protection. It makes no sense at all that a UPS would cause this.

I only have until the 25th to return this or will have wasted $975. If I ask for a replacement does it reset my month to give it back? I'm just worried if for some reason the new hardware just doesn't like my power or cable and a replacement does the same thing I'll be stuck with it and not be able to use it.

To top it off I ordered the new slide remote and got the roamio one so it doesn't come with the dongle if I should go back to my old premiere. Plus that thing is so damn slow and only has 4 tuners! I want the Roamio to work


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

I just called TiVo back and talked to another tech and he doesn't think it has anything to do with the UPS. He thinks it was just a coincidence that it didn't lock up for those 3 days. He checked my signal and he says its my 100% signal and 42 SNR. He thinks it is overloading the cards causing a freeze. He suggested getting a 10db Attenuator so I guess I will try that.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

jrock said:


> I just called TiVo back and talked to another tech and he doesn't think it has anything to do with the UPS. He thinks it was just a coincidence that it didn't lock up for those 3 days. He checked my signal and he says its my 100% signal and 42 SNR. He thinks it is overloading the cards causing a freeze. He suggested getting a 10db Attenuator so I guess I will try that.


I don't think you have to run out and buy an attenuator. If you have a splitter laying around I'd try that first, but just be sure to connect the other outputs to a load (TV, 75ohm terminator, etc) for proper impedance matching, no signal reflections and noise reduction.


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

Just locked up again while I was watching a show. The video froze but the yellow remote light was still blinking so I thought it was problem with something when it recorded. I tried rewinding and the bar looked like it was moving but the video still stayed frozen. Finally the yellow light stopped working and I had to unplug it again. Stuck it in the surge only just to see if it changes anything.

I don't have any splitters and I couldn't find an attenuator locally so I ordered one from Amazon. It's just odd that it didn't freeze for 3 whole days when it was plugged in the wall.

-Joe


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## ltxi (Feb 14, 2010)

You have two first choices....R&R the TiVo or R&R the cablecard. One or the other or both will fix your problem. I'm betting it's the box.


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

Somewhere in the back of my mind I seem to recall that depending on the type of UPS, the output may not be a nice sine wave that comes out of the wall. Perhaps the power supply of the Roamio is sensitive to the type of wave that it receives. It could be even when the UPS switches from line to battery and back causing an imperfect sine wave. Some UPSes will switch to battery if the voltage drops a little or if it is programmed to do a self test every now and then. If this is the case, there are specific (and very expensive) UPS devices that are made to give a clean and consistent sine wave even when switching to and from battery power.


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## tough joe (Sep 16, 2006)

Im starting to have this problem myself. 48 day old roamio pro has locked up twice in the past 7 days. In my case, its happened on Friday evening while record 4 hd channels. im starting to get fed up with TiVo and thinking about going HTPC with the new 6 tuner centon card. All I want is for everything to work as its suppose to... My unit is plugged into a surge protector. (battery backup ups). I had to restart it twice last night. 1st time when it locked up, the 2nd time 53 minutes later when it locked up again. Last Friday the same exact identical problem occurred. Any suggestions?


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## telemark (Nov 12, 2013)

It is possible for a UPS to could be causing this. Does it have monitoring or a log to tell you when it switched over, how long, and why?


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

jmbach said:


> Somewhere in the back of my mind I seem to recall that depending on the type of UPS, the output may not be a nice sine wave that comes out of the wall.


This is correct. Full sine wave UPS models are much more expensive. However, I don't think this is the problem in his/this case.


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## DigitalDawn (Apr 26, 2009)

This is odd. From day 1, I've always kept my TiVo's on a UPS -- along with a network switch and a Control4 controller. In some cases the UPS was an inexpensive APC for $40, but most recently I've been using the Panamax MX5102. It's pricey, but no problems with the Roamio so far. 

You can also look at Tripp-Lite - a lot less expensive than Panamax, but no line filtering.


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

crxssi said:


> This is correct. Full sine wave UPS models are much more expensive. However, I don't think this is the problem in his/this case.


I agree it would be unusual for this to be the case. It would be a compelling argument if a majority of the people who have this problem find that by excluding the UPS their problems improve dramatically.


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

I have several UPS's in my house and almost every piece of electronics on one I have 3 really large Belkin tower UPS's one in each room for all my electronics and computers. I just changed the batteries in all 3 within the last year. The Premiere and Series 3 never had issues with it. I just bought the brand new 600 VA APC for the Roamio.

For now I have it on the surge only portion. I'll see if it locks up again with that. If it does I'll stick it in the wall again and see. If it will at least work with a surge suppressor I can live with that. We don't get to many brown outs except with bad storms and I could live with reboots several times a year. 

The Tech thinks its the 100 signal and 42 SNR so I also have the attenuators on order. I only have until the 25th to figure out if its a Roamio problem or something on my end (cable/power).

It really sucks though, I went to the other room to copy some programs to my old Premiere for safe keeping in case I have to R&R or return the Roamio and OMG its so painfully slow going back to that. It's like going from high speed internet back to dialup.

-Joe


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

jrock said:


> I have several UPS's in my house and almost every piece of electronics on one I have 3 really large Belkin tower UPS's one in each room for all my electronics and computers. I just changed the batteries in all 3 within the last year. The Premiere and Series 3 never had issues with it. I just bought the brand new 600 VA APC for the Roamio.
> 
> For now I have it on the surge only portion. I'll see if it locks up again with that. If it does I'll stick it in the wall again and see. If it will at least work with a surge suppressor I can live with that. We don't get to many brown outs except with bad storms and I could live with reboots several times a year.
> 
> ...


SInce the issue has when on a UPS, it seems like something might be defective with the Tivo. I've always used my TiVos on a UPS and I've also never owned a UPS that sent out a Sine Wave since those are very expensive. But currently I have a Roamio Pro and a Roamio Basic on a couple of APC 1500XL units with extended runtime batteries to get close to a day of runtime on my TiVos(although if I turn on my TV, receiver and other components I'll only get around two hours of runtime during a power outage). So far the Roamios have been working fine.


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> SInce the issue has when on a UPS, it seems like something might be defective with the Tivo. I've always used my TiVos on a UPS and I've also never owned a UPS that sent out a Sine Wave since those are very expensive.


If I can confirm it's only locking up while on the UPS maybe I have a faulty Power Supply. I won't go back to the UPS for the remainder of my testing and see if it locks up anymore. What is getting me though is that it was perfect from the 31st to the 7th (the first week I got it) while on the UPS then all of a sudden why would it just stop working a week in unless the power supply just went bad.

Still be interested in having all the people that are getting the lockups to go to surge only and see if that fixes it. I'll keep posting here to let you know if it locks up again while on surge only for me. This could all be a coincidence like the TiVo Tech said so I don't want to jump the gun.

-Joe


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## ltxi (Feb 14, 2010)

Ahhh...really going down the rabbit hole here, dude


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

Well it's not locking up anymore! Now its just rebooting, twice in the last half hour 

Just have the attenuator to try when it comes in this week then if that doesn't fix it I'm sending it back for a replacement.

How does the replacement work? You have to send this one back then they send you another or do they have advanced replacement? What about shipping and a box to ship it in? I kept the original box but not the one that it was shipped in.

-Joe


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

Well it just locked up again this morning off the UPS so its not that. Was just a coincidence that it was fine for 3 days off it last week. The attenuators tracking show they will be delivered today so that's the last test before replacing it. When it booted back up today I noticed macro blocking for the first time on the channel it started on. So maybe like the tech said its to hot a signal for the cable card and causing all the issues.

-Joe


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## rsnaider (Apr 25, 2002)

I just swapped out a Pro and if you do an advance replacement they will need to charge your CC until you return the old box.

They will provide a return UPS shipping label that you can print out and if you do not have the original box you can just send it back in the boxes that the replacement comes in.


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

The Attenuators just came in. The tech told me to get a 10db and my local radio shack didn't have any so I had to order it online. I decided to go with a combo pack that had a 3,6,10, and 20. Good thing I did. I put the 10 on and it was still 100 signal and 40 SNR. I put the 20 on and now its 83 / 33 and within the range from the TiVo support page.

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/150

Keeping my fingers crossed that this fixes it. I returned the UPS at least I got $63 back from that.

-Joe


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

jrock said:


> The Attenuators just came in. The tech told me to get a 10db and my local radio shack didn't have any so I had to order it online. I decided to go with a combo pack that had a 3,6,10, and 20. Good thing I did. I put the 10 on and it was still 100 signal and 40 SNR. I put the 20 on and now its 83 / 33 and within the range from the TiVo support page.


If the 10db attenuator only took you that far down, then your original signal was pretty clearly too strong, and there's no question that Roamio's are more sensitive to overly strong signals. It may or may not solve your final problem (could be your signal being that strong is a symptom of some other cable problem), but you've made progress. Good luck!


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

It has to be a Roamio problem. We have two 4 tuner Premiere's and I just replaced a series 3 with the Roamio. The Series 3 had been running since 2008 ish with no problems and we got the 2 Premieres in June and had no issues. The same exact cable the Roamio is on now I had a Premiere on before and it has a 91 signal and a 36 SNR. We also have internet and phone on the cable line and everything is perfect except this new Roamio. It's like it has a signal booster built in it or something weird.

I see a really long thread on here about a V58 error and not authorized tuners. I do get that error a few times when I reboot but if I change channels and go back it finally works. Most those people are finding it to be a cable card issue. This is the same cable card the old Series 3 had but I checked the firmware and it is updated to what other people have with scientific atlanta cards from that thread.

It just seems like its so new there are still quite a few issues with the roamio. I just hope they can fix it all with software updates if this doesn't do the trick.

-Joe


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

jrock said:


> The Attenuators just came in. The tech told me to get a 10db and my local radio shack didn't have any so I had to order it online. I decided to go with a combo pack that had a 3,6,10, and 20. Good thing I did. I put the 10 on and it was still 100 signal and 40 SNR. I put the 20 on and now its 83 / 33 and within the range from the TiVo support page.


The signal coming into your home is unreasonably strong and your video provider should adjust it at the pole/etc.


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

crxssi said:


> The signal coming into your home is unreasonably strong and your video provider should adjust it at the pole/etc.


Why is this only effecting the Roamio then? The signal is perfect on the other 3 older TiVo's. Unfortunately the cable isn't in my name so I can't get them to do anything like that. I highly doubt it's that though, since everything else we have in the house works perfect. I'm sure even if a comcast tech did come out he would notice the signal perfect on the other equipment and say its the Roamio.

-Joe


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

jrock said:


> Why is this only effecting the Roamio then? The signal is perfect on the other 3 older TiVo's. Unfortunately the cable isn't in my name so I can't get them to do anything like that. I highly doubt it's that though, since everything else we have in the house works perfect. I'm sure even if a comcast tech did come out he would notice the signal perfect on the other equipment and say its the Roamio.


As I said in my message, the Roamio is known to be more susceptible to too much power. There have been reports here that it contains an extra amplifier in order to then split among 6 tuners instead of 2 or 4, but I don't know if those reports have been confirmed by TiVo.


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

Well it locked up again over night. Has the perfect signal strength and is off the UPS so nothing I do fixes it. It worked fine for 1 full week so something must of just gone bad in it. I'll have to send it back


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## Devx (Jun 1, 2006)

jrock said:


> Well it locked up again over night. Has the perfect signal strength and is off the UPS so nothing I do fixes it. It worked fine for 1 full week so something must of just gone bad in it. I'll have to send it back


It happens but it's much better for it to happen now than later. :up:


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

Hmm I did the advanced replacement so I could keep using this until the new one comes but they already removed it from my account and it no longer has a subscription. They didn't copy the season passes to the new one either. I had 135 or more season passes. That was my whole reason of doing the advanced replacement.

I'll have to call after work and see if they can restore it temporarily or at least copy the season passes.


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## rsnaider (Apr 25, 2002)

They should be able to put the service back on the old box as I had the same issue. You will just need to call them when you setup the replacement and they will move the service again.

Season Pass Manager needs both to be active so I used kmttg for the 1st time and it moved over all SP's and WL's without any issues.


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

They made me start a new subscription and said I have to cancel within 30 days and can get a full refund. Otherwise I get a $75 cancellation fee if I wait longer.

I had no idea what kmttg was so I searched it and tried it out. Wow that is so cool! New toy!

-Joe


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## rsnaider (Apr 25, 2002)

I had Lifetime on my unit so moving it around was not an issue.

kmttg is a nice little toy with many more features then just backup and restore of SP's.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

kmttg is the solution for season passes, for sure.

But you will *ALWAYS* lose all your dozens, hundreds, or thousands of program ratings. And you will lose all your other settings, including what could be hours worth of setting up channels you get and don't, channels you want to turn off because you don't like, and those you want to make your "fav". And lots of other stuff (network settings, screen settings, preview preferences, video providers, sort orders, etc, etc).

I have complained literally DOZENS and DOZENS of times to TiVo over the phone, in Emails, in surveys, in beta testing, via this forum, that they need to have an option for backup up these ratings and settings so we can store them off-box for restoration after hardware failure or upgrading. USB flash drive. Transfer to computer through network. Transfer to TiVo's servers through the Internet. SOMETHING!!!

They could at LEAST provide an import/export API so that third parties could do it for them. I bet moyekj would jump on that in a heartbeat.

Ug.


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

TiVoMargret said:


> We will be releasing an update later today for TiVo Roamio and TiVo Mini.
> 
> Here is a list of some of the changes:
> - fixed an issue where the video would occasionally freeze and the box would become unresponsive


OMG! That's the problem I have been having!? The TiVo tech support people didn't mention anything about it possibly being a known issue. I wonder if this will fix my problem.

It hasn't locked up in the last 24 hours but I got home today and noticed it had rebooted (must of been from the software update) but no channels would come in. I got v53 or wierd other errors on all tuners. Even taking the Cable card out and back in didn't fix it. I restarted and now its fine.

The new box comes Monday so will have to see if this locks up over the weekend.

-Joe


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

Well it hasn't frozen up to the point of needing to unplug it since the update. Now it freezes and becomes unresponsive then reboots itself. Still once a day it seems. Now I'm thinking its more a software issue. I guess I'll try the new one when it comes on Monday and hope it doesn't do the same thing.


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## 33602Kahuna (Sep 11, 2011)

I have had issues with my premiere, when background tuners have to change channels on more than one tuner (while I watch live tv). It doesn't happen when I am watching a recorded program.
Try setting up multiple recordings to happen simultaneously while watching live TV. AND, make sure that non of the new shows are on channels that the Tivo is currently set to.
My display hangs with the remote unresponsive, ESPECIALLY when i respond to clear the channel change warning message on the screen.


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## tough joe (Sep 16, 2006)

jrock said:


> Well it hasn't frozen up to the point of needing to unplug it since the update. Now it freezes and becomes unresponsive then reboots itself. Still once a day it seems. Now I'm thinking its more a software issue. I guess I'll try the new one when it comes on Monday and hope it doesn't do the same thing.


can you provide an update?


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