# No Suggestions



## Verne (Nov 21, 2000)

Over the last week I have noticed that my TiVo has stopped recording suggestions. It has always recorded them in the past without any problems. I checked the list of upcoming suggestions earlier today and it was completely empty. There was a message on the screen suggesting I use thumbs to let it know what I like. Very strange. My TiVo has been working fine and making its daily call ok. 

I could try resetting the thumb ratings & suggestions I guess. 

Anyone else having the same problem?


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Well I was down to only 2 suggestions as recently as yesterday, and they were both 1-:up: anyway!


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## DeadKenny (Nov 9, 2002)

I'm getting almost the opposite. For years it's been recording only a select number of suggestions and almost always shows I've thumbed up a few times. Generally records the same stuff and that's been fine for me.

Now it's gone nuts and is just recording anything and everything. I can't even work out the logic behind what it's recording relating to things I've watched or thumbed up. It's far more frequent as well, i.e. before it would record a couple each day, now it's recording something every hour almost.

And I swear it's deleting some stuff from my main recordings when there's clearly space left on the drive, and it's deleting stuff higher in the list when older recordings are flagged to be deleted and get kept.

It all started going funny when Sky shuffled the channels recently.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

DeadKenny said:


> And I swear it's deleting some stuff from my main recordings when there's clearly space left on the drive, and it's deleting stuff higher in the list when older recordings are flagged to be deleted and get kept.


Maybe you have a Keep-until-I-delete wishlist or SP ?
Tivo will pre-allocate space for those, way ahead of time.

Suggestions never override or expire normal recordings, and I think it was a mistake not putting suggestions on their own menu to ease confusion.


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## tankstage (Jan 8, 2005)

DeadKenny said:


> I'm getting almost the opposite. For years it's been recording only a select number of suggestions and almost always shows I've thumbed up a few times. Generally records the same stuff and that's been fine for me.
> 
> Now it's gone nuts and is just recording anything and everything. I can't even work out the logic behind what it's recording relating to things I've watched or thumbed up. It's far more frequent as well, i.e. before it would record a couple each day, now it's recording something every hour almost.
> 
> .


Same here, using TiVo with Virgin Media.


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## digital_S (May 15, 2002)

Verne said:


> Over the last week I have noticed that my TiVo has stopped recording suggestions. It has always recorded them in the past without any problems. I checked the list of upcoming suggestions earlier today and it was completely empty. There was a message on the screen suggesting I use thumbs to let it know what I like. Very strange. My TiVo has been working fine and making its daily call ok.
> 
> Anyone else having the same problem?


I have exactly the same problem 

I've had my TiVo since 2001, and it's always recorded suggestions, exept the odd time when I'm away and don't want suggestions being recorded... I'd then turn them back on when I'm back (after catching up with programs)

It's like it's like it's auto reset my thumb ratings! Although I still have thumb ratings on most of the ones in my SP Manager! Odd


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## Verne (Nov 21, 2000)

Not just me then. I'll leave it a few days and if the situation doesn't change I'll try resetting the thumbs.


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## jrg (May 26, 2002)

Verne said:


> Anyone else having the same problem?


Mine stopped too.

But now it's started again, and it's now suggesting lots of obscure radio programmes, including ones I've never recorded anything off.


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## bendylegseddy (Jul 2, 2007)

I was just about to start a new thread, thinking i was alone in this.

Our tivo has gone mad! We're grown human beings and I'm sitting 
here looking at a pile of recorded suggestions including chucklevision,
jeremy kyle, etc. Not that i've anything against them (just in case),
but it doesn't fit our, er, "normal" viewing habits.

I know when i first turned on my tivo about five years ago, i recorded
"Countdown" to experiment with it and that took a lot of getting
over. i think it's still there as a trace memory, as a duckling fixates
on the first thing it sees as its mother, but i wonder if there's not a 
way to reset preferences and history?

Maybe just a totally cleaned disk?

ed


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## steveroe (Oct 29, 2002)

Something has definitely changed somewhere by the sounds of it, maybe a behind the scenes genre update...


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## simbeav (Mar 14, 2005)

steveroe said:


> Something has definitely changed somewhere by the sounds of it, maybe a behind the scenes genre update...


It's looking that way. I've had very few suggestions for weeks now and most are inappropriate(!) I've usually got a shed full of Simpsons , South Park and a few history documentaries to keep me occupied. I _almost _ feel like I've got a Sky+ box at the moment


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## JanB (Mar 2, 2005)

Verne said:


> Over the last week I have noticed that my TiVo has stopped recording suggestions. It has always recorded them in the past without any problems. I checked the list of upcoming suggestions earlier today and it was completely empty. There was a message on the screen suggesting I use thumbs to let it know what I like. Very strange. My TiVo has been working fine and making its daily call ok.
> 
> I could try resetting the thumb ratings & suggestions I guess.
> 
> Anyone else having the same problem?


Me too!

I reported it to customer support about a week ago who couldn't understand why this was happening. I have just set up BT 'caller display' on my land line and have a new phone, coincidentally at the same time that Tivo suggestions started going haywire, could this have something to do with it?

JanB


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## steveroe (Oct 29, 2002)

JanB said:


> I have just set up BT 'caller display' on my land line and have a new phone, coincidentally at the same time that Tivo suggestions started going haywire, could this have something to do with it?


Easy answer - No.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Still nothing here. Only "House" and "CSI"; both of which are explicitly :up:


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

I'm on Freeview and getting plenty of explict and predicted suggestions 5-10 a day as per usual.
What platforms are you on - could that make a difference?


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## Verne (Nov 21, 2000)

I'm on Sky, full package.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

Well as Carl is "cable" that blows that one out the water  and your locations aren't close together either - Very odd.


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## JanB (Mar 2, 2005)

steveroe said:


> Easy answer - No.


Thanks steveroe, just a coincidence then.  

JanB


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## DeadKenny (Nov 9, 2002)

I'm thumbing down just about everything it's recording now each day, but it's not helping. Apparently I'm interested in Boxing, classical music / arts, DIY, family health, welsh programmes, Bollywood.

And yet normally it just records the stuff I watch all the time which is mostly Sky One and UK Gold stuff (cartoons, sci fi and comedy).

It was recording that Chinese news channel the other day and what it was recording was just a generic entry (you know, the kind that just says the channel name) !


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## aerialplug (Oct 20, 2000)

For some reason, my TiVo, having faithfully recommended stuff I like (mostly repeats of what I've already thumbed up but hey ho) has suddenly completely lost the plot with regards to what I like and don't like when it comes to suggestions.

Gone are documentaries from Discovery and History channel and repeats of comedies from UK Gold and in come recordings from channels such as MTV Dance that don't even have any metadata of note to make decisions on. Currently recorded are two programmes from children's channels I have since even canceled subscription thereof (can't blame TiVo for trying to record on them - but definitely a questionable suggestion) and Deal or No Deal from More4+1!

Has something happened to make the suggestions go so awry? Looking at the metadata supplied with each recorded programme using backdoors, they *look* OK - just nothing that I'd remotely be interested in watching!

Does the thumbs database have a limited life? That could explain it as I stopped thumbing shows quite a few years ago now when TiVo got good at recommending stuff I like.


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## steveroe (Oct 29, 2002)

The same is happening to me.


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## Benedict (Jun 8, 2002)

DeadKenny said:


> It was recording that Chinese news channel the other day and what it was recording was just a generic entry (you know, the kind that just says the channel name) !


I had a similar experience yesterday with a four hour suggestion recorded from The Hits Radio - again just with generic data and a category of Music.


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## aerialplug (Oct 20, 2000)

Oh well, not just me then. I started another thread on the forum about this without realizing that this was happening to many others.

Definitely something has recently changed but I can't quite work out what as the shows being recorded have very generic metadata.

I've just asked for a list of TiVo's Suggestions (from the Pick Programmes to Record list) and, out of the entire random list of programmes (including a large selection of children's programmes, which I always used to 3 thumbs down), only one programme has a single thumb up - all the rest have no thumbs listed. What's suddenly caused the suggestions algorithm to suddenly give up like this?

At least I get to see a few channel logos appear in Now Playing that I don't normally see...


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

cwaring said:


> Still nothing here.


Same here, a 30% full TiVo and not a single suggestion in queue. Very strange. I usually have loads to prune.


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## BrianHughes (Jan 21, 2001)

Yep, crazy stuff being recorded here too.


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## smokie (Dec 27, 2002)

Some odd stuff here too, but not too bad. What do the figures mean after Predicted (e.g. Predicted 1 123 mean in Suggestions in TivoWeb?


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## aerialplug (Oct 20, 2000)

Still suggesting mostly complete rubbish here.

Can anyone confirm that our suggestions have been deleted from TiVo (accidentally or otherwise) and that we have to reset our settings and start again with the thumbs?


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

More likely there's been some messing about with the genre mapping?


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Still nothing at all (barring a couple of already-:up: shows) here. Very strange.


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## dallardice (Oct 14, 2000)

Yet another report here. Suggestions panel is blank asking me to start thumbing things - TiVo is recording all sorts of random stuff. TiVo since month one, Sky full package, postcode N1.


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

dallardice said:


> Yet another report here. Suggestions panel is blank asking me to start thumbing things


I had that in May
(I know because I took a photo).
However, Suggestions did come back;
maybe I'm ahead of the curve?  

Slightly OT, but I have two Tivos; I only ever record Channel 4 onto Tivo1, and BBC2 onto Tivo2, and Season Passes are rarely duplicated.

Yet I find they are often recording the same Suggestion;
yes, you could say that it's the same person using both Tivos, therefore the same profile will build up.

But I wonder if something else is happening;
they're both networked:
do you think they're talking to each other?


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## JanB (Mar 2, 2005)

I've been checking my Tivo every day since I noticed the suggestions have been weird and it seems to be clearing them almost every day and starting the list from scratch again. I can't work out when this happens, whether it's immediately after the daily call or GC (what's that?) or indexing.

I'm a very basic user - 5 terrestrial channels, no freeview box and no fancy additions!

JanB


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## tom_m (Sep 17, 2002)

I've actually got slightly different behaviour - I thought something was odd, but it's taken a "heads up" from Aerialplug to get me to post my findings...

Up until a couple of weeks ago I was seeing nothing unusual - lots of shows I'd already seen and thumbed - for me, suggestions rarely actually suggested anything I'd not come across before.

However, a couple of weeks ago, it started suggesting stuff I'd not come across before - now I generally watch a lot of "factual" stuff (e.g. Discovery, History, Biography etc) as well as "normal" entertainment stuff like CSI, Heroes, Dexter, Psych...

To me, I've seen an improvement as it's actually suggesting stuff I'm interested in, and haven't seen before - yes there's been a couple of duds (some "you've been framed" style home-video show) - but generally it's been pretty good - a couple of re-run SciFi films, lots more stuff like "Crime Scene" shows etc...

I think something has changed behind the scenes for suggestions - but it seems to have worked for me!


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

TiVo US are investigating these reports


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

ozsat said:


> TiVo US are investigating these reports


AH now I know why my Tivo thinks I need to catch up on Dallas of all things   and I never watch any soaps


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## aerialplug (Oct 20, 2000)

ozsat said:


> TiVo US are investigating these reports


Ah, good news!

I wonder if they've accidentally turned on the facility they have in the States of automatically recording programmes based on other people's viewing profile and comparing it to your own - and it's broken for some reason?


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

Dunno, but for weeks mine hasn't recorded a single suggestion which is most unusual.


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## digital_S (May 15, 2002)

kitschcamp said:


> Dunno, but for weeks mine hasn't recorded a single suggestion which is most unusual.


Same here, mine still hasnt recorded any suggestions, although it has and is now listing a few! 

Shame there's nothing we can do!?


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

Hmmm. Just looked at TiVoWeb. My old listings data isn't being deleted. I still have listings for over a week ago - could that be connected?


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## SilkMan (Feb 13, 2007)

My suggestions are behaving just as they always have (SNAFU) - 95% kids stuff and 5% adult dross


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## Benedict (Jun 8, 2002)

In the last 24 hours TiVo has recorded (amongst others) the following suggestions.....

Hard-Fi: Video Exclusive (C4)
Classical Collection (BBCR3) - Not sure what these two say about my taste in music!!
Prayer for the Day (BBCR4FM) -  

.....but by far the biggest insult of all.....

ITV Nightscreen (ITV1YOR) -  Why this has a genre of "Entertainment" is beyond me!


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

Benedict said:


> ITV Nightscreen (ITV1YOR) -  Why this has a genre of "Entertainment" is beyond me!


It carries 'entertainment' news here - but only in text form.

My TiVo which had not carried suggestions for a while is now working again - anyone else see any changes? (ensure that today's daily call finished over an hour ago before posting)


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## worm (Feb 10, 2005)

Mine stopped recording Suggestions last week - Thursday I think

It started recording them again this Thursday - but very few (only 3 in the last 2 days)


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Doctor Who Confidential and three eps of CSI are my only Tivo Suggestions here. Not that I ever usually bother with them


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

I wonder if TiVo has started re-using TMSIDs. Looking my suggestions list, several shows which I've never heard of have thumbs up; when I reset then to none the Thumbs module reports "You have previously recorded this series" which I haven't, not even as a suggestion.


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## aerialplug (Oct 20, 2000)

TiVo really has lost the plot here. None of the below would remotely be linked to anything I'd really want to watch on TV but were all recorded in the last 24-48 hours.
Celebrity Masterchef (UK Food)
A&E (Home & Health)
I Want to Be A Hilton (UK Style) - where I decided TiVo REALLY had lost it
Hope & Faith (ABC1)

programmes however that may come under my remit of something I may be interested in:
Walks With an Architect (Sky Arts) - though quite how TiVo would have deduced this...
World of Mysteries (Sky Three)
Eggheads (BBC2W)


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

I don't have time to watch what I explicitly ask my Tivo to record, never mind recording suggestions as well. Perhaps turn them off for a while?


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

Mine still isn't recording or suggesting any. I think someone else must be getting mine (and "no", I haven't seen mine above...).


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## BrianHughes (Jan 21, 2001)

Mine has decided that I like Coronation Street (Never, ever, watched in this house - sorry to any Corry fans out there) and Sexy Cam. I can't quite see the pattern yet


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

aerialplug said:


> TiVo really has lost the plot here. None of the below would remotely be linked to anything I'd really want to watch on TV but were all recorded in the last 24-48 hours.
> Celebrity Masterchef (UK Food)
> A&E (Home & Health)
> I Want to Be A Hilton (UK Style) - where I decided TiVo REALLY had lost it
> ...


My suggestion list also has A&E on it, oddly.

Also it does not contain *ANY* shows which have a real positive thumb up, which usuall represents the majority of it.


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## aerialplug (Oct 20, 2000)

cwaring said:


> I don't have time to watch what I explicitly ask my Tivo to record, never mind recording suggestions as well. Perhaps turn them off for a while?


Usually I don't either but occasionally a good suggestion is made.

Besides, it's the best way of judging how much "space" is available on TiVo before it starts deleting things I don't want it to delete.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

aerialplug said:


> Besides, it's the best way of judging how much "space" is available on TiVo before it starts deleting things I don't want it to delete.


I use the Autospace hack for that


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

My Tivo is also coming up with a very odd and reduced list of Suggestions (that is the manually forced list of Suggestions rather than Suggestions that actually record).

Oddly it is only coming up with Suggestions from the Reality Channel, Reality Channel +1, Thriller Movies, TrueMovies, Sky3, Travel Channel and Travel Channel +1 and not from any of the five main channels or any other BBC or ITV channels. This is totally atypical of its normal Suggestions pattern given the channels on which I have in fact Thumbed the most programs.

What it is recording has a documentary and travel flavour that is basically in line with my tastes but loads of other stuff on the more mainstream channels that would normally be listed in the Suggestions list (normally totalling around 50 programs or so) just simply isn't there.

Something is wrong somewhere.


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

Still not a single bean in the scheduled suggestions or normal suggestions list. Bizare.


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## Verne (Nov 21, 2000)

Just come back from holiday and my suggestions list is full again. I haven't done anything to it, they have come back of their own accord.


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## JanB (Mar 2, 2005)

Mine seems to have returned to 'normal' over the weekend. I now have several pages of suggestions with 'thumbs' at the top of the list where for the last three weeks or so there have been no suggestions at all or just a couple on the list each day.

Fingers crossed...

JanB


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

Mine still resolutely refusing to suggest anything at all. Totally bizarre.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

kitschcamp said:


> Mine still resolutely refusing to suggest anything at all. Totally bizarre.


Mine has totally returned to normal here with around 90 Suggestions (I have over 6,000 thumbed programs) in the manually forced Suggestions list across all channels.

However Tivo Central has dropped back to only having four options again yesterday. ozsat is aware of this and has notified Tivo.


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## mdolan (Jun 4, 2002)

Ok,

Whatever change has been made by Tribune/Tivo Central - please either undo it, or fix the problem that has been introduced by the change.

Last night my Tivo recorded the following suggestion:

"Sign Off" from a radio station. Yes, Tivo is now recording "nothing"!

There is obviously something seriously wrong and it's now heading towards the "annoying" stage. Suggestions used to be good - now it's complete junk. Can I also remind Tivo that some subscribers still pay for a service?

Is this just another slow part of the death spiral?

Cheers,
Mike


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## aerialplug (Oct 20, 2000)

Has anything been resolved / fed back from Tivo with regard to this?

My TiVo is currently recording a four hour block from Thompson TV, a travel channel with no viable EPG data and certainly nothing I'd be interested in watching. It has a single genre of Travel and an original air date of 17/12/2004 - which in itself is laughable since the whole point of the channel is to sell travel packages (often last minute deals)...

Up until recently suggestions used to come up with either repeat showings of programmes I'd thumbed up or interesting alternative programmes (usually from the documentary channels) that I'd occasionally dip into.

Now, I've got a list of seemingly random programmes from channels I wouldn't never bother watching. Channels now being recorded from range from shopping channels, children's channels, religious channels etc and nothing from my usual staple of documentary channels and the "top 5" in the EPG listings (except for Hollyoaks on 4 earlier on this week - another completely wasted suggestion on me).

One of the points I used to make when saying how good TiVo was compared to other DVRs on the market (both Freeview and Sky+) was the suggestions - now they're a complete waste of time.

So, just to reiterate, have we had any feedback about this? Is there something I can do to get it to suggest meaningful suggestions? I don't mind resetting the thumbs database if it comes to that.


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

aerialplug said:


> One of the points I used to make when saying how good TiVo was compared to other DVRs on the market (both Freeview and Sky+) was the suggestions - now they're a complete waste of time.


Yours because they are rubbish, me because I'm not getting any!


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

kitschcamp said:


> Still not a single bean in the scheduled suggestions or normal suggestions list. Bizzare.


Tivo2 is happily recording Suggestions;
Tivo1 recorded its last Suggestion on 10th July.

Like aerialplug, I use Suggestions as a free space indicator, but I, too, am beginning to find to lack of them a bit annoying.

What on Earth is going on?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ericd121 said:


> What on Earth is going on?


Eric,

Since the Tivo software has not changed and the hardware is not at fault then logically something odd has happened with the Tivo EPG data with which the Tivo software has to interact to make Suggestions.

Since different people seem to have different current situations on the availability and/or disappearance of Suggestions all at the same time I wonder if this is also in any way viewing platform related and/or even affected by which channels you have selected in Channels I Receive?

A couple of days ago I had only 5 or so suggestions all on obscure channels but now they have returned to the normal 70 or 80 suggestions across all channels if one aske the Tivo to manually come up with them using the menus.

Auto recording of Suggestions by Tivo is a slightly different issue again as although in principle the Tivo tries to record all the programs in its long Suggestions list, subject to the availability of sufficient disk space, and it also has to avoid any recording clashes with user sheduled recordings. However obviously if almost nothing is in that list then only a handful of programs will be recorded.

It is the emptiness in that full list of Suggestions that is the key factor in people then not seeing their Tivo actually recording many suggestions.

But what we don't know is why that list is now empty in many cases when nothing else appears to have changed.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Mine appear to have returned to normal.


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## steveroe (Oct 29, 2002)

Mine are still recording "offbeat" stuff that have no thumb ratings. Before this started I rarely had a suggestion recorded that didn't already have a thumb rating.


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

ericd121 said:


> Tivo1 recorded its last Suggestion on 10th July.


My last one was the 1st July. On the one that's not recording suggestions, can you go to Tivoweb and go to User Interface, Channel Guide, Favourites and choose say C5 and see what the oldest data you have is, as a matter of interest?


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

kitschcamp said:


> go to User Interface, Channel Guide, Favourites and choose say C5 and see what the oldest data you have is?


Wed 18th July; looks like the same for most other channels, too.

And it's the same for the 'healthy' Tivo, which is recording Suggestions like no tomorrow.

I did wonder whether it's because I set all my Recordings via TivoWeb, which doesn't add a :up:;
maybe the Thumb Database emptied and had nothing positive to work on?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ericd121 said:


> maybe the Thumb Database emptied and had nothing positive to work on?


No as someone who is a top Tivo using thumber and who even also manually thumbs anything I spot in DailyMail that is not thumbed I can assure you that I too was also afflicted by the recent problem with the disappearance of most Suggestions but in my case they have now returned and number 70 or 80 in Total if looked up from the Pick Programs To Record and then Suggestions menu options.


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## aerialplug (Oct 20, 2000)

New today:

My "TiVo's Suggestions" list is now completely empty and I'm getting the "if your recorder is new, rate programmes..." message.

This almost certainly means that suggestions aren't gonna happen for me any more until I start rating programmes.

Is this intentional - has it been triggered by TiVo or is it another stage of my TiVo's senility with regards to suggestions?

Just as well, it seemed to think I wanted a few programmes from the God channel overnight last night before it went into this reset mode - I wonder if TiVo's trying to tell me something...

before I start making the effort of thumbing programmes again, can anyone confirm that this is actually a solution being implemented or has my TiVo now completely lost the plot.

Edit: It still knows about the thumb ratings I've given previous shows - I think it's having a nervous breakdown... maybe it's upset that I'm now using Sky+ a lot more (though to be fair I've also given it it's own Sky reciever on a Sky multiroom deal to play with...)


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Probably best to hang on until ozsat has a firm diagnosis from Tivo as to what the problem is.

Simple suggestion but have you tried rebooting your Tivo lately? My Suggestions seemed to come back after trying to edit them in User Interface/Preferences/Thumbed in Tivoweb each time caused the Tivo to sulk and take ages to respond and then reboot.


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

ericd121 said:


> Tivo1 recorded its last Suggestion on 10th July.


And they're back.

Tivo1 recorded two Suggestions today, 21st July.

How bizarre.

The Suggestions list is only showing 21st, 22nd and 23rd July, but I'm guessing it will slowly fill up.


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## DeadKenny (Nov 9, 2002)

Mine's still recording strange rubbish. I'm having to thumb down everything it records and also remove loads of channels I don't watch (just means I can't see the listings for them anymore so have to hope they don't go show anything decent. I can do without all the shopping and Bollywood channels though ).

Suggestions list is showing my thumbs up stuff, but it also has a huge amount of garbage without thumbs at all, and it seems to record those in preference to anything with thumbs.

Also the other day my 'Inside TiVo' and 'Channel Highlights' disappeared off the menu. Seems to be back now.


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

Interestingly, Tivo1 is following the same pattern as Tivo2 did;
it's recording both 'high-brow' and 'pleb' programmes;
i.e. Radio 3 Classical programmes, Radio 4 Woman's Hour and
ITV News, various Soaps.

It's almost as if the same default had been applied.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Spoke too soon. All suggestions have now vanished...


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

Mine haven't returned in order to vanish.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> Spoke too soon. All suggestions have now vanished...


Still have around 70 Suggestions here in Tivo/Central/Pick Programs To Record/Tivo's Suggestions and they seem to relate to my thumbs preferences and the types of programs I generally watch.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

So did I on thursday. Now, all gone.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> So did I on thursday. Now, all gone.


Still here this morning, after a successful nightly call at 3am.


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## aerialplug (Oct 20, 2000)

TiVo's Suggestions are back here but are mostly a long list of rubbish like Supermarket Sweep, Home Improvement, Judge John Deed and E! News Weekend (none bar one show have any thumbs next to them either).

There are a couple of potential hits too - CSI (which DOES have 3 thumbs up) appears on top but everything beneath looks pretty random.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

It seems odd that Tribune and Tivo don't seem to have been willing to offer any information to ozsat on the likely cause of this problem.


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## dallardice (Oct 14, 2000)

My Suggestions are back but none of them have any thumbs and they don't seem to relate at all to my preferences.


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## aerialplug (Oct 20, 2000)

I deleted a lot of programmes off TiVo last night and it seems TiVo wasted no time and recorded about 8 hours of complete rubbish; mostly children's programmes and shopping channels.

Suggestions are now a complete waste of time (apart from providing a method of showing how much space is left on the disk). I ask again, can someone at least provide an explanation as to what's going wrong, even if it's not something that has an immediate solution please?


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Once again I find myself agreeing with Pete 

Suggestions on both my TiVos (sky & freeview) seem to be completely as normal. I've never been a great one for thumbing or suggestions in general, but they seem to relate to my prferences about as well as they ever have. 

Maybe it's a region thing?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> Once again I find myself agreeing with Pete
> 
> Suggestions on both my TiVos (sky & freeview) seem to be completely as normal. I've never been a great one for thumbing or suggestions in general, but they seem to relate to my prferences about as well as they ever have.
> 
> Maybe it's a region thing?


blindlemon,

I did have the problems with Suggestions largely disappearing reported by others but now they have returned as of several days ago.

But then I am in a different tv region from your good self...............................


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

aerialplug said:


> New today:
> 
> My "TiVo's Suggestions" list is now completely empty and I'm getting the "if your recorder is new, rate programmes..." message.


Mine was like that last night, even though a lot of programmes were still :up:

So I have reset them over-night and will see what happens when I start :up: again.


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## Verne (Nov 21, 2000)

My suggestions list is still full having originally disappeared. It's been working for about a week or so. The programmes it is recording continue to be very strange. Mostly children's programmes, documentaries and films from True Movies. I never watch anything of this type or on the channels it is recording from.

My thumbs have accumulated over about 5 years since I last upgraded. I'm tempted to clear them and start again.


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## DeadKenny (Nov 9, 2002)

Well I'll give it credit for one thing. It's just recording Mr Benn ! :up: :up:


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

DeadKenny said:


> Well I'll give it credit for one thing. It's just recording Mr Benn ! :up: :up:


Are they still showing it. On what channel?

I had better set up a Season Pass immediately.


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## steveroe (Oct 29, 2002)

I'm still getting mainly kids programs and assorted dross - any update on this?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

steveroe said:


> I'm still getting mainly kids programs and assorted dross - any update on this?


They seem to prefer to hope that we won't notice there is a problem and to then presumaby quietly work away on whatever major database foul up has actually caused this to happpen.


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

Hmmm. Major excitement here, after changing to dialup to solve one problem, a single suggestion has now appeared...


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

There is something weird about the dates of the Suggestions on my Tivos.

Until this weekend, both lists didn't go beyond Friday, 3rd August; 
now Tivo1 has breached this 'barrier'.

Normally, Suggestions stretch 3 or 4 weeks into the future, albeit on the non-terrestrial channels.


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## FluffyLob (Apr 25, 2003)

Well, after a couple of weeks of recording utter rubbish (with the occasional gem to be fair) tonight my Suggestions have succumbed to the peer pressure and have all vanished.  I'm getting the "if your recorder is new, rate programmes..." message.

Was there any official word on the cause / solution to this? I'm prepared to redo guided setup and start over if it'll bring my wacky suggestions back!


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

ericd121 said:


> Until this weekend, both lists didn't go beyond Friday, 3rd August;


Yesterday, I had 8 Suggestions in total in Tivo2's list.

Today, Tivo2's list is almost back to its fulsome self;
lots of Suggestions, but none beyond Wednesday, 8th August; 
Tivo1 has Suggestions, up to Saturday, 18th August.

I do think some change has been made to the underlying model for Suggestions.


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## aerialplug (Oct 20, 2000)

Still complete rubbish here too (the last three suggestions being kids shows from kids channels I've never even been to). Of the two screen fulls of suggestions I currently have recorded, two programmes are spot on what I'd considered a valid suggestion to my taste, and the other 11 seem to be a complete cross section of televison (which makes me doubt the two correct ones).


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## Verne (Nov 21, 2000)

I wiped my thumbs and started again. I then thumbed some of my favourite programmes and films. Most sci-fi, fantasy and action adventure. Since then it hasn't recorded many sci-fi or fantasy programmes or films. Lots of children's ones though. Children's programmes seems to be a recurring theme for a lot of people. Hopefully it will get more accurate as I thumb more programmes.


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## FluffyLob (Apr 25, 2003)

Kids stuff here too, mostly. 

Suggestions have re-appeared this morning, upto August 4th, so I was only with an empty list for 24 hours 

I don't know about anybody else, but accurate suggestions is really what separates Tivo from all the other "PVRs" for me. Until recently they were mostly surprisingly accurate to my tastes and a decent set of suggestions does away with the need for dual tuners (mostly).

I really want to see this sorted, but if it's not, after 5 years of happy Tivoing I'll have to seriously consider switching to something I don't have to pay £10 a month for. Yes, I should have got a lifetime sub 5 years ago.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

If you rely on suggestions, you haven't got enough wishlists setup 

But yes, suggestions are still pants here too - all bar one in the todo list have no thumbs, and there are many kids programmes...


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## FluffyLob (Apr 25, 2003)

mikerr said:


> If you rely on suggestions, you haven't got enough wishlists setup


I like the variety and surprise offered by suggestions. Maybe not at the moment though  Wishlists it is!


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## aerialplug (Oct 20, 2000)

So, is that it?

Are we now expected to accept that our TiVos have faithfully given us recommendations that match our tastes over the last 7 years only to suddenly have them spew random programmes at us that are almost meaningless as "suggestions"?

Tonight's example for someone who enjoys scifi and documentaries, living in Wales:
Super Vets (BBC1 South, Somewhere I've never lived or had a subscription)
The Basil Brush Show (CBBC)
Doctors (BB1 East - somewhere I've also never lived)
Drake and Josh (Nickelodeon)
24-7 (BBC Radio 4 - I NEVER got serious reccomendations for programmes I'd dearly have loved to listen to from here until this happened - sadly this isn't one of the programmes from BBC Radio 4 that I'd really have been interested in)

There are more completeley useless suggestions above and below this list.

It seems purely random. Is ANYONE willing to stick their necks out and tell us what's gone wrong? Is it something we did or has something gone wrong on the TiVo/Tribune end and at least be honest in explaining that there is indeed a problem...

Or is it still Ostrich solution...

Tivo/Tribune, please, pretty please with candy on it - explain why things have changed so radically over the last week or so for our UK TiVos. 

please?


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

aerialplug said:


> Are we now expected to accept that our TiVos have faithfully given us recommendations that match our tastes over the last 7 years only to suddenly have them spew random programmes at us that are almost meaningless as "suggestions"?


And then for others not to suggest even a single program! It's really bizarre. Seems mine decided after the hard work of choosing one suggestion in a month, it's decided not to bother any more. Grr.


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

It does seem that our Suggestions data has been reset.

Remember, when your first Suggestions, way back when?

It always suggested children's programmes, usually followed by comedy, then random programmes to test the waters.

Having said that, I don't remember Suggestions ever being as random as they have lately.


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## mdolan (Jun 4, 2002)

As previously noted, mine has been recording things such as channel "Sign Off". Something is obviously seriously broken and at least Tivo should have the decency to acknowledge (and fix) this problem - some of us still pay them money for this "service". Oh hang on, I think I can see a flock of pigs flying past my window....

Must remember - Tivo no longer give a rats about UK customer service. We are the abandoned country....

Cheers,
Mike


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## George (Nov 14, 2001)

Realised last night that I had not had any suggestion recorded since the 9th July - glad to see that I am not the only one!

Oh well, sit, wait and hope I suppose.....


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

Just for fun - has anyone actually called Tivo customer services for the story on this?
Mine are fine but clearly plenty are broken - someone must know what is going on.


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

George said:


> Realised last night that I had not had any suggestion recorded since the 9th July - glad to see that I am not the only one!
> 
> Oh well, sit, wait and hope I suppose.....





ericd121 said:


> Tivo1 recorded its last Suggestion on 10th July.


Mine did return, so there is hope!

Bit of a coincidence there, though.


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## dponsford (Oct 23, 2005)

Just to add my 2 cents ... my TiVo suggestions have been bonkers for a few weeks now too; recoding things like 2 hours of Heart FM & OneWord on the radio and loadsa kids stuff too.

I only have suggestions for 2 days ahead of now and I've just deleted all those, as they were rubbish.

If this doesn't get sorted soon I am off to see Uncle Rupert and get an HD Box and subscription, this will be just the excuse I've been looking for to make the transition (my flat is already fitted with a multi-feed for HD).


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

dponsford said:


> If this doesn't get sorted soon I am off to see Uncle Rupert and get an HD Box and subscription...(


Without wishing to be rude, can I ask why? For me, the 'suggestions' feature is the one I use the least. If you have enough SPs and WLs, you'll have too much to watch without having to use suggestions; and I certainly don't auto-record them.

Okay, I know everyone's different but I'm just wondering why the loss of this feature which doesn't even record what you _want_ to watch would be a reason to drop Tivo in favour of (HD excepted) inferior product.


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## aerialplug (Oct 20, 2000)

okey, I've now given up and come to the conclusion that the old thumbs database is making no difference whatsoever so I'm going to reset the database and start again. To be honest I don't think this is going to make a difference as I can see all the programmes I'd rated previously still had their ratings - it's just that TiVo seems to have started ignoring all of them in its decisions as to what to recommend, for some reason.

It'll take a few days for any effect (if any) to be noticed - I'll probably post sometime next week on the results.


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## aerialplug (Oct 20, 2000)

cwaring said:


> Without wishing to be rude, can I ask why? For me, the 'suggestions' feature is the one I use the least. If you have enough SPs and WLs, you'll have too much to watch without having to use suggestions; and I certainly don't auto-record them.
> 
> Okay, I know everyone's different but I'm just wondering why the loss of this feature which doesn't even record what you _want_ to watch would be a reason to drop Tivo in favour of (HD excepted) inferior product.


Uncle Rupert is doing rather well with regard to my move to Sky+ as, not willing to lose TiVo functionality, TiVo's now been equipped with its own Sky box (the previous reciever to Sky+) which has a Sky Multiroom service. Aerial installer was a tad puzzled as to why I wanted a third cable from the same dish to the same corner but understood when I explained.

He also said that he hadn't seen a TiVo for a while now which means I guess that they're a bit thin in the woods now in my area - he's the main installer that all the local independant shops use.

I now use Sky+ from day to day (for improved off-air picture quality) but I still find TiVo invaluable - mainly for searching and for the occasional wishlist recording (though currently not for suggestions, for obvious reasons). So far it's not had much use as a backup recorder as I find Sky+'s twin tuner operation so good that I hardly ever get a clash.


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## dponsford (Oct 23, 2005)

Hi Carl,

>>Without wishing to be rude, can I ask why? ...

It's not rude at all 

To be honest, I have been putting off moving to Sky HD for ages, as I don't like the cost involved, for just for a handful of HD channels, but ... I have a 37 inch plasma, set up with a decent AV amp and Home Cinema speakers and it really needs a decent HD source, rather than a TiVo in Mode 0 IMHO

So, as I said; I'm looking for an excuse  and it would be good to dump a bunch of boxes (TiVo + Freeview box) for a single source (with dual tuners) & a decent sound output.

Don't get me wrong, i love my TiVo and I love the fact that I can hack it, and that it is networked but there comes a time (maybe) when we need to move on ...


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## aerialplug (Oct 20, 2000)

Day one having reset suggestions - and yey! - a suggestion pops up on Now Playing! And it relevant too - Time Team. Granted I've seen this episode before but that's how suggestions seem to work - stuff you like regardless of whether you've seen it before.

I look at the TiVo's Suggestions list and there are four programmes there - 2 completely irrelevant (kids channels) and 2 relatively suitable so I thumbs down the kids shows. 

I think TiVo got upset about this because within 2 minutes it showed the "if your TiVo Recorder is new" screen again - an no more suggestions (including the two I didn't thumb down).

Oh well, progress of sort I guess.


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

Ooo! 4 suggestions have appeared overnight, one of them actually scheduled to record.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Not had the "if your recorder is new" screen here, even though Suggestions did disappear for a while a few weeks ago. But they then came back listing precisely the same kind of programs across the same channels as they have always done.

But I have over 6,000 series and individual one off programs thumbed on my Tivo. I suspect some of you have thumbed far less programs than this and I wonder if Tribune have now changed the the database in some way that more readily catches out those of you with less thumbs?


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

Indeed. As I said earlier


ericd121 said:


> I did wonder whether it's because I set all my Recordings via TivoWeb, which doesn't add a :up:;
> maybe the Thumb Database emptied and had nothing positive to work on?


All I seem to do is :down: shows I can't stand, which reveals me to be quite a negative person.


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## George (Nov 14, 2001)

Well, a month has gone by now since Tivo recorded a suggestion. Obviously nothin worth watching is being broadcast at the moment....


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

George said:


> Well, a month has gone by now since Tivo recorded a suggestion. Obviously nothin worth watching is being broadcast at the moment....


Have you tried rebooting your Tivo to see if this fixes the issue?


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## ciper (Nov 4, 2004)

I may be missing something obvious but how exactly do you reset the thumbs database or view what entries are currently rated?


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

To view current suggestions, press 8 from Tivo Central.

To reset Thumbs datatbase, you need to go into Messages & Setup. Then... erm... (not in front of Tivo so can't remember!)... Restart Recorder, I think. There'll be an option there to reset thumbs data.


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## steveroe (Oct 29, 2002)

Mine seems to be getting better - it's started recording more thumbed programs and less children;s, although still some.


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## aerialplug (Oct 20, 2000)

Since rebuilding the thumbs database, things have shown a remarkable improvement. Although still nowhere near as accurate as it previously was (with 6 years worth of thumbs) it's really looking much more like the sort of lineup I'd be interested in now that I've thumbsed a selection of shows over the last week. good news - NO kids shows any more and mostly documentaries. Plus, programmes that I've thumb rated are now actually being recorded as suggestions.


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## ciper (Nov 4, 2004)

cwaring said:


> To view current suggestions, press 8 from Tivo Central.
> 
> To reset Thumbs datatbase, you need to go into Messages & Setup. Then... erm... (not in front of Tivo so can't remember!)... Restart Recorder, I think. There'll be an option there to reset thumbs data.


You are right
"Tivo Central" - "Messages & Setup" - "System Reset" - "Reset Thumb Ratings & Suggestions"

Is there a way to see all the current thumb ratings? Perhaps a TWP plugin?


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

No resetting of thumbs, etc. Suggestions started working again last night / this morning with fairly credible suggestions.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

ciper said:


> You are right
> "Tivo Central" - "Messages & Setup" - "System Reset" - "Reset Thumb Ratings & Suggestions"


Well I was close at any rate 

Also, yes. I too now have at least five or six pages of suggestions and most of them are reasonable ones


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## aerialplug (Oct 20, 2000)

A week and a bit after pressing the reset button with regards to suggestions - it's remarkable the change it made.

Until a month or so when things went nuts, TiVo was largely recording old programmes that I'd seen previously and given good ratings to and along with this an occasional interesting programme would be recorded. Complacency on the part of Tivo's algorithms I guess.

Now, I'm getting suggestions from all across the channel spectrum of programmes that I'd definitely be interested in watching (if I had the time), and a few that I've even watched as a result.

I guess this shows that the saturation of the thumbs ratings on TiVo can make a difference to the extent that you can actually reach a "comfort" point where TiVo can always record a previously viewed programme/show rather than suggest something new and interesting.

I've learned that hitting the reset button on the recommendations engine may well be a good thing to do every 6 months/year.

To sum up (and having published a listing previously of rubbish suggestions, to be fair on TiVo or whoever made the change for things to mess up) - my current suggestions are:

Medical Detectives - Crime & Investigation Network
Dangerous Encounters - NatiOnal Geo Wild
Brainiac: Science Abuse - Sky One
The Last Days of WWII - History Channel
Sky Travel Shop - Sky 2 (OK, it isn't perfect yet...)
Airline - Sky Travel

... these are shows that have already been recorded as suggestions and the list goes on with more positive recommendations.

Compared to the dross of kids shows and shopping channels it was recording previous to the reset, this is pretty close, based on the limited viewing I've rated this week. I still have no idea why TiVo completely lost the plot with regards to recommendations - but restarting the process has made me realise that little knowledge inside TiVo is better than saturation...


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

My suggestions seem to have come back to some sense of normality on their own 
- a bad batch of guide data, that has now expired maybe?

If I reset thumbs, I suppose I'll have to triple-thumb all my seasonpasses/wishlists ?

Come back teach-tivo - did anyone ever find a way to resurrect that, or was it removed from the codebase totally ?


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

Well after weeks of feeling lucky/smug my Tivo is only showing a single (predicted) suggestion today and nothing after that.

So is the consensus is Tivo aren't admitting a problem and I have to blank my thumbs data and start again?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

AMc said:


> So is the consensus is Tivo aren't admitting a problem and I have to blank my thumbs data and start again?


I would carry on as you are and not delete your thumbs data for the time being.

Its clear that as yet Tivo has not responded on the matter but due to the widespread nature of the problems with many users the disappearance of Suggestions seems to probably be due to some problem in the database structure.

In those circumstances I would wait for Tivo to fix the problem and announce what it was, especially as loss of Suggestions does not seem to be a mission critical issue for Tivo use.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Has anyone actually reported the problem?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> Has anyone actually reported the problem?


ozsat is clearly aware of it and I believe indicated earlier in the thread that the matter had been reported to Tivo.

See www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5312671&&#post5312671


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## JanB (Mar 2, 2005)

TCM2007 said:


> Has anyone actually reported the problem?


Yes I reported it, see my post on this thread on 3rd July.

My suggestions are now almost back to normal, I didn't reset thumbs ratings and I now have several pages of reasonable suggestions with thumbs at the top of the list.

However this has happened before only to revert to no suggestions at all after a few days so I'm not yet convinced everything is as it should be. Hope so though 'cos suggestions often catch programmes that I've missed in the listings. 

JanB


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

Very weird - Wednesday showed a single suggestion (implied for an episode of The Saint)and DailyMail indicated nothing scheduled for the next 36 hours.
But on Thursday 11 suggestions recorded and today has a similar number scheduled.

I didn't reset thumbs but I did reboot on Wednesday for another reason - which may have had something to do with it or nothing at all!


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

How are suggestions today?


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## BrianHughes (Jan 21, 2001)

They've been better recently - not great today as it happens but no "badly dubbed porn" or the like as I was getting (try explaining what that is to the kids!).


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

I would have thought the title would be self-explanatory


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

They had been fine the last week or so, but now they've started disappearing again.


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

Could you recheck after today's update and let me know so I can get back to TiVo?


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

Will do!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ozsat said:


> Could you recheck after today's update and let me know so I can get back to TiVo?


After last night's update at 3am (I use Colin's utility that forces that time) I now have around 110 Suggestions in Pick Programs To Record/Tivo's Suggestions. This is probably more than I would have got in the old days before the problems started. Perhaps only 70 or 80 Suggestions usually at most then.

Most of the non thumbs upped programs suggested appear to be programs within my tastes, although despite my three Thumbs Upping of Who Wants to Be A Millionaire my heavy thumbs downing of Family Fortunes has normally been enough to stop 321 or Gitterball from previously appearing in the games show Suggestions list. Also suspect as Suggestions are Golf on BBC2 and Channel4 Racing on Ch4 which have never appeared before in my Suggestions and for which I have no thumbs up or thumbs down. I do have three thumbs up for Formula1 Racing and three thumbs down for all kinds of Football and normally Tivo Suggestions as a result only bothers to suggest other motor sport programs to me rather than all kinds of sports.

SuperMarioBrothers on Pop Tv is a very suspect suggestion indeed, given my one thumbs downing of virtually all long running kids programs series. On the other hand Suggestions has spotted The Protectors on Men & Motors which is remarkably perceptive of it (especially as I didn't even know MM had started showing it).

Also Suggestions has picked up four 9/11 programs on Ch4 channels of one kind or another based on long ago thumbs upping of other 9/11 documentaries. So again that is very perceptive of it.

So in general I think Tivo is working on the right lines here, although they do seem to have gone a bit far in allowing any other program of a genre you have thumbs upped (eg sport) without considering if the program is also in the sub genre (motor racing) of your other thumbs upping. Same problem for games shows where it now seems to be picking any games show at all and not just factual quizzes.


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

ozsat said:


> Could you recheck after today's update and let me know so I can get back to TiVo?


Not a bean in the list. Not even a single one.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

kitschcamp said:


> Not a bean in the list. Not even a single one.


Curiouser and curiouser................


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

Hmm. 5 have appeared since I checked this morning.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

kitschcamp said:


> Hmm. 5 have appeared since I checked this morning.


Do you have many currently broadcasting series thumbs upped or thumbs downed? It might be all your thumbs upping and thumbs downing is now on series that are no longer broadcast in the main?

I noticed this recently and thumbs upped and thumbs downed a load more currently broacast series, after which my number of Suggestions also seems to have greatly increased.


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

The whole point of suggestions is to suggest things you may not have noticed, not stuff that I've already seen.

There are plenty of series on that are thumbed. Most, if not all of them, are to some degree or another.

Mine had been fine for a few weeks, it's just gone minimalistic over the last few days.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

kitschcamp said:


> The whole point of suggestions is to suggest things you may not have noticed, not stuff that I've already seen.


I only meant that if you didn't have thumbs set for almost any series still currently being broadcast that might confuse its algorithm for looking for current programs you have not thumbed. But sounds like you do have plenty of current programs thumbed.



> Mine had been fine for a few weeks, it's just gone minimalistic over the last few days.


Whilst mine has gone in to overdrive and is suggesting series like Channel 4 Racing and Golf that I have no thumbs for just because of my heavy thumbs upping of most motor racing or car related programs.

Previously my Tivo has never suggested Channel 4 racing or golf, even though those programs have always been around.

And I did have almost no Suggestions a few weeks ago.

Are you talking about what is show in Pick Programs To Record/Tivo's Suggestions though or what actually records on your Tivo as a Suggestion?

Obviously if you have almost no free disk space left you only ever get one suggestion before it is then replaced by the next one. But there will still be plenty of programs listed in Pick Programs To Record/Tivo's Suggestions.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Tossing my hat in the ring...

My suggestions list is alive. It's got repeats of + thumbed programs (I assume it's because TiVo hasn't 'seen' those) as well as the usual bizarre entries. 

This is from "Pick programs to record" - auto record of suggestions is off.


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## mdolan (Jun 4, 2002)

ozsat said:


> Could you recheck after today's update and let me know so I can get back to TiVo?


Still full of utter trash. Keeps trying to recommend the "Asian Network" (despite me :down: :down: :down: lots of previous Asian Network suggestions). Not to mention cookery/style/home improvement junk.

Actually I'm hard pressed to find *anything* that Tivo has suggested within the last 3 months that I might want to watch.

Cheers,
Mike


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

dallardice said:


> Yet another report here. Suggestions panel is blank asking me to start thumbing things - TiVo is recording all sorts of random stuff. TiVo since month one, Sky full package, postcode N1.


Around 100 Suggestions here today in User Interface/Suggestions and all of them fairly sensible apart from My Little Pony on Tiny Pop.


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## mrtickle (Aug 26, 2001)

Pete77 said:


> apart from My Little Pony on Tiny Pop.


LOL! What are the genres set for that series, and do they match any genres you may have thumbed up in the past?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mrtickle said:


> LOL! What are the genres set for that series, and do they match any genres you may have thumbed up in the past?


I know the cause. It is my two thumbs up for the Thunderbirds, Captain Scarlet and New Captain Scarlet series. However the fact that I have given one thumbs down to almost any other kids program has normally counteracted the recording of any other series as a Suggestion.

The reason I have CITV in Channels I Receive is obviously to record New Captain Scarlet (now just called Captain Scarlet on these re-run series after the travesty of the initial broadcast of New Captain Scarlet within Ministry of Mayhem which damaged the export prospects of a brilliant remake series) under a Season Pass and also to support the not infrequent weekend visits of my 3 and 8 year old nephew and niece to use my indoor communal swimming pool here accompanied by my sister and brother in law. You will not be surprised to hear that the kids are fans of channels such as CBBC, CBeebies, Pop, TinyPop and the newly launched PopGirl as well as CITV. All of these are FTA kids channels since I have Freesat.

It would seems that Tivo Preferences thinks My Little Pony shares some of the same sub genre kids programs attributes as Captain Scarlet although what element of kids science fiction is to be found in My Little Pony it is rather hard to imagine.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> I know the cause. It is my two thumbs up for the Thunderbirds, Captain Scarlet and New Captain Scarlet series. However the fact that I have given one thumbs down to almost any other kids program has normally counteracted the recording of any other series as a Suggestion.
> 
> The reason I have CITV in Channels I Receive is obviously to record New Captain Scarlet (now just called Captain Scarlet on these re-run series after the travesty of the initial broadcast of New Captain Scarlet within Ministry of Mayhem which damaged the export prospects of a brilliant remake series) under a Season Pass and also to support the not infrequent weekend visits of my 3 and 8 year old nephew and niece to use my indoor communal swimming pool here accompanied by my sister and brother in law. You will not be surprised to hear that the kids are fans of channels such as CBBC, CBeebies, Pop, TinyPop and the newly launched PopGirl as well as CITV. All of these are FTA kids channels since I have Freesat.
> 
> It would seems that Tivo Preferences thinks My Little Pony shares some of the same sub genre kids programs attributes as Captain Scarlet although what element of kids science fiction is to be found in My Little Pony it is rather hard to imagine.


You a Captain Scarlet fan then Pete? What a co-incidence!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> You a Captain Scarlet fan then Pete? What a co-incidence!


Surely all you Dr Who fans here are also fans of Gerry Anderson's finest productions.


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## mrtickle (Aug 26, 2001)

Pete77 said:


> I know the cause. It is my two thumbs up for the Thunderbirds, Captain Scarlet and New Captain Scarlet series.
> [...]
> It would seems that Tivo Preferences thinks My Little Pony shares some of the same sub genre kids programs attributes as Captain Scarlet although what element of kids science fiction is to be found in My Little Pony it is rather hard to imagine.


Aha, well In that case I would say the real cause is bad guide data, not your thumb ratings! Ie, if "My Little Pony" is set as "Children/Science Fiction" this is a mistake that needs fixing.

Something is badly wrong on my Tivo too - I've just done a search in the UI for "Children/Special" (that is to say I selected main category Children, sub-category Special) and it matched, among others:



TiVo said:


> Adolf Eichmann: The Secret Memoirs
> Adolf Eichmann masterminded the Holocaust. Here, his secret diaries are analysed and reveal a man who believed betraying the fatherland was far worse than mass murder.


That's a Children's programme?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mrtickle said:


> Something is badly wrong on my Tivo too - I've just done a search in the UI for "Children/Special" (that is to say I selected main category Children, sub-category Special) and it matched, among others:
> 
> That's a Children's programme?


Something is badly wrong with the quality of the EPG produced by Tribune full stop (or period as they say back in Tivo HQ land) these days. It seems they are now only doing the bare minimum required and probably the only channels they are going to any trouble to check are correct are BBC1, BBC2, ITV1, C4 and Five. The rest seems to be run only on automated macros and templates that soon go out of date and things are only corrected if an awful lot of noise is made about it on here.


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## mrtickle (Aug 26, 2001)

I'd prefer no data to template data - particularly the third week's listings which seem to be all templated & generic, hosing the Recording History chock full of duff entries (which are never removed because that's the way the software was designed). Later these listings are updated with the real data. By then it is very hard to spot the real clashes in Recording History because of all the duff entries.


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## Crispin (Jan 26, 2003)

Hmm, my Tivo has stopped recording suggestions now (nothing at all in the pending suggestions list as shown by tivoweb  )


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Something is badly wrong with the quality of the EPG produced by Tribune...these days. It seems they are now only doing the bare minimum required...run only on automated macros and templates that soon go out of date...


I think the failure rate is actually quite small;
it become more noticeable when it's your favourite programme.

As for the templates, these seem to right themselves as the date approaches.



TCM2007 said:


> You a Captain Scarlet fan then Pete? What a co-incidence!


Methinks this quip went over Pete's head.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ericd121 said:


> I think the failure rate is actually quite small;
> it become more noticeable when it's your favourite programme.
> 
> As for the templates, these seem to right themselves as the date approaches.


Congratulations on making your 1,000th post Eric. Actually I'm surprised to see that you haven't made rather more posts than that as at times it certainly feels like you have.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

ericd12 said:


> Methinks this quip went over Pete's head.


I think it's still tangled up in the strings 

Congratulations on the millenial post!


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Congratulations on making your 1,000th post Eric.


Thank you, Pete.


> Actually I'm surprised to see that you haven't made rather more posts than that as at times it certainly feels like you have.


I've made 1000 posts in almost 5 years - 200 p.a.;
you've made over 3500 in your first year.

Could the reason you feel I've made more posts than I have is that I have a higher signal to noise ratio?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ericd121 said:


> Could the reason you feel I've made more posts than I have is that I have a higher signal to noise ratio?


May be its your photo with the crown.


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## dallardice (Oct 14, 2000)

ozsat said:


> Could you recheck after today's update and let me know so I can get back to TiVo?


As of right now:
Tivo #1: No suggestions
Tivo #2: Sole suggestion is 4 hours of generic listing for "Bright Entertainment Network" - a channel I've never watched and have no idea what it broadcasts.

Do I take it that TiVo did something that was supposed to fix the problem? Any chance of letting us know what they did? I've had both these TiVos for years and would really rather not wipe out the thumbs unless that's the official fix.

But this has been going on rather a while now.


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

Gosh! Having waxed for a while, my Suggestions have waned.

Tivo1 only has 4 Scheduled Suggestions and Tivo2 only has one!

Looking at unscheduled Suggestions, I can see that there are none past today.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Today I now have around 80 Suggestions in Pick Programs To Record - Tivo's Suggestions. A couple of days ago it was closer to 60.

All of the current Suggestions appear to be perfectly sensible, bearing in mind my thumbing patterns for current and historic programs on the Tivo.

It seems odd that this problem is now only selectively affecting some Tivo users.

For the sake of clarity I think people should stick to reporting here what is currently being listed in Pick Programs To Record/Tivo's Suggestions and/or what programs are actually being recording on their Tivo as Suggestions as the TivoWeb Suggestions options then cut this data up or alter it in to data subsets that are not officially supported by Tivo as being data that is accessible to end users.


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## mrtickle (Aug 26, 2001)

Well we haven't moved any further forward from the problem that the genres seem to be screwed, so nothing's going to change until that is fixed.

Eg. I've just done another search in the Children/Special category in the UI. It matches many programmes that can't be for children, including "25 Most Memorable Swimsuit Moments", "Baghdad: Guns For Hire", etc.

No Hitler documentaries this time though.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

mrtickle said:


> "25 Most Memorable Swimsuit Moments"


<pwoooosh>
^Sound of mineral water being squirted.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mrtickle said:


> Well we haven't moved any further forward from the problem that the genres seem to be screwed, so nothing's going to change until that is fixed.
> 
> Eg. I've just done another search in the Children/Special category in the UI. It matches many programmes that can't be for children, including "25 Most Memorable Swimsuit Moments", "Baghdad: Guns For Hire", etc.


Further investigation reveals that what is specifically screwed are all the sub genres of Childrens programs which are horribly corrupted in some way so that instead of only looking for a narrower set of Childrens programs within that sub genre they instead seem to search across the entire Tivo EPG for that sub type of program whether friendly to kids or not. This is not happening in the sub genres of any of the other main program types apart from Children.

Go to Pick Programs to Record/Search By Title/Children and then Don't Specify A Sub-Category and pick the letter A and you get a nice A to Z listing of programs that are clearly all kids tv including Adventures of Bottle Top, Andy Pandy, Basil Brush Show, Big Cook Little Cook, Boo, Clifford, Dennis the Menace, Dora The Explorer and so on. Its a long list but I couldn't see any that weren't kids tv.

But hang on a minute and go back to the Children category and pick sub genre Drama. What do we now have but a list including Abduction of Innocence: A Moment of Truth Movie on Truemovies at 12.30am, Advance to Ground Zero (also TrueMovies), Agatha Christie's Poirot, Ally McBeal, The Bigamist (C4) and numerous other distinctly non Childrens oriented Drama programs. Go back to the Children main category and pick Game Show and the letter A and the story is the same with the list showing Bargain Hunt, Brain of Britian, Britain's Hardest, Countdown, Eggheads, Have I Got News For You and basically the whole game show genre not filtered for Childrens programs as it should be. Back to Children main type and pick Fantasy and the same problem recurs with Celebrity Deathmatch, Meet Joe Black and The Mummy Returns and Smallville amongst the programs offered.

But go back to the main genre type for all programs and pick Sports and pick Motor Racing and only Motor Racing programs appear. Pick Basketball and only NBA Basketball appears and so on. Back to the main genre and pick News & Business and the sub genre Law and a correct list of only Judge Judy, Law In Action and Riots: Mobs Out of Control appears.

So a clear problem that can be diagnosed is a major screw up in the Childrens sub genre coding and the fact that the Childrens sub genre is cross linked back to the main database for that genre type rather than looking only within Childrens programs. I expect I am spared the obvious likely consequences mainly because I have actually taken the trouble to give one thumbs down to most of the regular kids shows on channels I have enabled in Channels I Receive. But any of you who have kids and have thumbs up for some kids programs are then going to encounter problems with loads of other programs in the cross linked sub genre type to all programs of that type now being recorded.

If the rest of you can confirm that you also have this mislinking with the Children sub genres looking for programs across the whole database and not just within Childrens programs ozsat can then report this issue to Tivo and they can get on with fixing it. I must say I'm surprise that Tivo have not managed to spot this issue so far since after my being alerted to the problem by mrtickle it only took me 20 minutes or so to diagnose the sub genre mis-linkage issue in Childrens programs.


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## mrtickle (Aug 26, 2001)

Pete77 said:


> I must say I'm surprise that Tivo have not managed to spot this issue so far since after my being alerted to the problem by 6022tivo


Well I reported the problem with the children's subgenres on Sep 18th in this thread 

You have the same guide data downloaded as me and have the exact same problem so I think we have enough info now to know what's wrong.


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## mrtickle (Aug 26, 2001)

ColinYounger said:


> <pwoooosh>
> ^Sound of mineral water being squirted.


Thought people would like that one!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mrtickle said:


> Well I reported the problem with the children's subgenres on Sep 18th in this thread


You mentioned the issue but not as explicity and in as much detail as I have done above.

Also did you go through all the other main genres and their sub genres as I have done to check that there aren't any problems with incorrect problems being listed for those genres?

So I would say the checking I have done more definitively identifies the issue as only related to the Children Sub-genre classifications producing inappropriate listings.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Have a banana.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> Have a banana.


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

TCM2007 said:


> Have a banana.


  This truly did make me LOL. 

Having waned, my Suggestions have now waxed;
both Tivos currently have plentiful lists.

Maybe, we should take Tivo's Housekeeping literally;
perhaps it's throwing all the Suggestions out, 
dusting the shelves,
and then getting a new lot in.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ericd121 said:


> Maybe, we should take Tivo's Housekeeping literally;
> perhaps it's throwing all the Suggestions out,
> dusting the shelves,
> and then getting a new lot in.


Me thinks that those responsible for maintaining the Tivo UK genres at Tivo need to dust down the shelves and blow off the cobwebs and sort this out.


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## mrtickle (Aug 26, 2001)

Pete77 said:


> You mentioned the issue but not as explicity and in as much detail as I have done above.


Whatever. Anyone reading this thread, you/TiVo/etc would have known there was a problem with the the Children subgenre on Sep 18th. There was nothing much more to do after that except wait for TiVo to fix the genres problem as a whole at their end. That's what I thought everyone else was doing! By all means do extra checking to flesh out the thread for people to have something to read whilst waiting for TiVo, but it seems strange that you waited until yesterday to do that.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mrtickle said:


> Whatever. Anyone reading this thread, you/TiVo/etc would have known there was a problem with the the Children subgenre on Sep 18th. There was nothing much more to do after that except wait for TiVo to fix the genres problem as a whole at their end. That's what I thought everyone else was doing! By all means do extra checking to flesh out the thread for people to have something to read whilst waiting for TiVo, but it seems strange that you waited until yesterday to do that.


Well I thought more detail might be likely to provoke further investigation.

If this is a Tivo problem rather than a Tribune problem then the www.tivo.co.uk domain disappearance debacle would rather suggest that they now have to be prodded rather hard to show any form of interest in resolving issues with the UK Tivo service.

I think we are both on the same side here and its those who are not resolving the genre issue at Tivo or Tribune that we are trying to prompt in to action.


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## afrokiwi (Oct 6, 2001)

They are back !!!!


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## Verne (Nov 21, 2000)

Suggestions have stopped recording again. My list is completely empty. The last suggestion recorded was last Sunday (4/5/08).

Anyone else having the same problem? They have been fine for ages and now they've stopped working again.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Yeah. I noticed this the other day. I don't often check the Sug's list (and don't auto-record them) but just happened to notice that mine had gone back to the default screen.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Yeah. I noticed this the other day. I don't often check the Sug's list (and don't auto-record them) but just happened to notice that mine had gone back to the default screen.


About 90 regular Suggestions via the Tivo UI available here and 17 Scheduled Suggestions indicated as due to record in Tivoweb's User Interface so I don't see any problems with them.


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

My stats are of the same order as Pete's.

I did notice a couple of week's ago that Tivo1 had no Suggestions, so it would seem they wax and wane on a whim.


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