# HD DirecTivo vs FiOS DVR Comparison



## mavsman78 (Jan 19, 2006)

I've written a review and comparison of the Hughes HD DirecTivo and the Verizon FiOS DVR on my blog. I've included close-up pictures with links to hi-res and Tivo comparison shots. Check it out and let me know if you'd like to see or know more about anything else: http://kevinrossen.com/2006/01/28/goodbye-directv-hello-fios-tv/


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## slocko (Mar 5, 2004)

thxs for the pics. i have been searching for pics of the MS DVR software to see how close it looked to UTV. doesn't look that similar to me.

you said it doesn't have wishlists, but does it have season pass functionality?


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## Budget_HT (Jan 2, 2001)

mavsman78 said:


> I've written a review and comparison of the Hughes HD DirecTivo and the Verizon FiOS DVR on my blog. I've included close-up pictures with links to hi-res and Tivo comparison shots. Check it out and let me know if you'd like to see or know more about anything else: http://kevinrossen.com/2006/01/28/goodbye-directv-hello-fios-tv/


I will be interested in hearing about the reliability of scheduling and recording programs, especially "Season Pass" style.

The Motorola 6412 with Microsoft Software being tested in Washington State by Comcast is full of bugs that have resulted in many missed recordings.

For me, that would be a serious showstopper. Even if TiVo (HD and SD from DirecTV) is slow, it is VERY reliable--something that competing cable and satellite DVRs have yet to achieve. UltimateTV and Replay came closest IMHO.


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## swifty (Mar 31, 2002)

Thanks for the pics and review. Could you update us in a few weeks when you've had some time to use it?


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## mavsman78 (Jan 19, 2006)

slocko said:


> you said it doesn't have wishlists, but does it have season pass functionality?


Yes it does. It's a fairly decent "season pass" manager and seems somewhat equivelent to Tivo. You can set the priority for each series (which tells the DVR what to do in case of conflicts). You are also able to set start and end times (up to 15 minutes early, 120 minutes later), save (erase when space is needed or only when manually deleted), type (new episodes, new & rerun, all shows & duplicates), record at (specific time only or anytime on scheduled channel), and number of episodes to keep.



Budget_HT said:


> I will be interested in hearing about the reliability of scheduling and recording programs, especially "Season Pass" style.





swifty said:


> Thanks for the pics and review. Could you update us in a few weeks when you've had some time to use it?


I'm planning on writing another review after about 10-15 days of using the DVR. So far it hasn't seemed to be buggy at all. I will pay attention to see if it misses any scheduled recordings and also see if there's anything that is annoying or especially useful.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

Who cares.

The Tivo Series 3 will work with FIOS TV. Why would you use anything else?

(and until it's available, anything else is a stop-gap.)


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## Mikey_C (Jun 24, 2003)

AbMagFab said:


> Who cares.
> 
> The Tivo Series 3 will work with FIOS TV. Why would you use anything else?
> 
> (and until it's available, anything else is a stop-gap.)


Has this been confirmed? Will the Series III work with FIOS TV?


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## slocko (Mar 5, 2004)

i'm confused on the series 3. is it or is it not a rumor?


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## mavsman78 (Jan 19, 2006)

slocko said:


> i'm confused on the series 3. is it or is it not a rumor?


I haven't heard anything about it. I'd be interested to know more if anyone knows.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

Tivo announced at CES this year. Not rumor. Will be out by Holiday season, hopefully sooner. Dual HD cable-card box, supports CC 1.x and 2.x. And full Tivo software.

FIOS looks like a cable company internally, and support CC, just like any cable company. Not sure if they support CC 2.x yet, but I hope so.

(The 6412 is also a standard cable DVR, just FYI.)


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## garywj (May 3, 2005)

When I looked in to ordering FIOSTV they told me they do not support any cable-cards at this time. I live in Murrieta CA and FIOSTV was going to start Jan/31 but it has not happened yet. I am looking forward to kicking D* to the curb. After more then10 years of lies and broken promises I am done with them.


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## tmembrino (May 29, 2002)

I appreciate this side-by-side comparison. I'm struggling with which way to go for HDTV (D* vs. Comcast vs. FIOS). I have D* with 2 DTivo's right now and I can't imagine losing all the functionality of a hacked Tivo. But I'm not thrilled with what I've read about the D* HDTV "value" (quality vs. price).

We're fortunate to have FIOS in town (hooked up FIOS internet last year). Waiting for word on when they'll roll out the FIOS TV service.

I'm really intrigued by the possibility of a Tivo S3 unit with FIOS CableCard. Of course all of this uncertainty just makes me postpone purchase of an HDTV unit.

Look forward to an update on the comparison by OP after a few weeks of use.

Tim


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## ThomC (Nov 4, 2003)

tmembrino said:


> ....
> I'm really intrigued by the possibility of a Tivo S3 unit with FIOS CableCard. Of course all of this uncertainty just makes me postpone purchase of an HDTV unit.
> ...
> Tim


My thoughts exactly. I am now in a waiting mode until....

FIOS TV comes to town &
They come out with a cablecard 2.0 interface &
the Tivo S3 arrives.
(This is the one I am really hoping will happen soon.)

Or...

D* comes out with the HR20 and it gets better reviews than the HR10-250.

Neither a bad D* HD-DVR nor what V* is currently using interest me very much.
Hopefully one of the above scenarios pans out, or I don't know what I'll do!


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## NYHeel (Oct 7, 2003)

AbMagFab said:


> Who cares.
> 
> The Tivo Series 3 will work with FIOS TV. Why would you use anything else?
> 
> (and until it's available, anything else is a stop-gap.)


Anyone who doesn't want to shell out $500-$1,000 (or whatever the series 3 will cost).


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## slocko (Mar 5, 2004)

$500 for me is a no brainer. I need two of them. More than that and it would have to be pondered.



NYHeel said:


> Anyone who doesn't want to shell out $500-$1,000 (or whatever the series 3 will cost).


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## Kevin L (Jan 10, 2002)

NYHeel said:


> Anyone who doesn't want to shell out $500-$1,000 (or whatever the series 3 will cost).


Plus pay TiVo sub fees on top of that. Also, let's not forget many products showcased at CES never make it to market. Those that do, often arrive late.


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## peterbilt (May 29, 2003)

AbMagFab said:


> ...Will be out by Holiday season, hopefully sooner....


That's an awful lot of confidence. Does anything really hit the market when they say it will? Especially with this much advance notice?


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## Gerryex (Apr 24, 2004)

mavsman78 said:


> I've written a review and comparison of the Hughes HD DirecTivo and the Verizon FiOS DVR on my blog. I've included close-up pictures with links to hi-res and Tivo comparison shots. Check it out and let me know if you'd like to see or know more about anything else: http://kevinrossen.com/2006/01/28/goodbye-directv-hello-fios-tv/


Hi mavsman78,

I am very interested in your posts as FIOS should be coming to my area soon. I currently have the HD Tivo, but the limited national HD channels and the rising costs make FIOS very attractive! I am NOT a Tivo fanboy and the ONLY reason I got it as it was the only practical solution at the time. When FIOS is up and running, and has all the features you have (specifically the HD DVR) I will switch in a heartbeat!!

A question. Its my understanding, and your posts and pictures seem to confirm, that basically the fiber comes into the house goes, to some equipment and then outputs to the various house hold stuff. For the phone its a regular wire connection into the wires already running to the phones. For internet its a Cat-5 network connection. And for TV its a coaxial cable. Is this all correct?

Thanks,
Gerry


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## tonyrojek (Sep 2, 2003)

What exactly does FIOS stand for? The verizon website was not very clear. Does any one know in what region is Verizon? The NewYork area?


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## Generic (Dec 27, 2005)

garywj said:


> I live in Murrieta CA and FIOSTV was going to start Jan/31 but it has not happened yet.


How did you find out this info?

I figure start up will be similar to Beaumont. Yahoo.com had FIOS TV listings for Beaumont before service was started. I think once Yahoo has added the TV listings for Murrieta, start up will be close.


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## HogarthNH (Dec 28, 2001)

tonyrojek said:


> What exactly does FIOS stand for? The verizon website was not very clear. Does any one know in what region is Verizon? The NewYork area?


Fiber Optic Service. Fiber-to-the-Home.

Verizon is -huge- but has just started rolling out FiOS. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FiOS


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## sgndave (Jan 16, 2002)

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/verizonfios/1.0 General Info

Q: What does FiOS stand for? (#12996) 
A: Simple enough: Fiber Optic Service.

(edit: I see that HogarthNH just beat me to it)


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## Rhodemaster (Feb 3, 2006)

Gerryex said:


> A question. Its my understanding, and your posts and pictures seem to confirm, that basically the fiber comes into the house goes, to some equipment and then outputs to the various house hold stuff. For the phone its a regular wire connection into the wires already running to the phones. For internet its a Cat-5 network connection. And for TV its a coaxial cable. Is this all correct?
> 
> Thanks,
> Gerry


Yep, Fiber goes to ONT (inside or outside), then Cat-5 to computer, co-ax to TV, and reg. phone wire to house phone wiring.


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## Budget_HT (Jan 2, 2001)

... and before someone asks, ONT stands for optical network terminal.


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## gquiring (Dec 13, 2002)

AbMagFab said:


> Who cares.
> 
> The Tivo Series 3 will work with FIOS TV. Why would you use anything else?
> 
> (and until it's available, anything else is a stop-gap.)


And pay$$$$ big bucks to get one plus a monthly fee. And who knows if the series 3 will fix the speed issues.

I wish FIOS was available in my area. I am not even sure Verizon will get past the NJ laws preventing them from offering TV service.


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## mavsman78 (Jan 19, 2006)

Gerryex said:


> A question. Its my understanding, and your posts and pictures seem to confirm, that basically the fiber comes into the house goes, to some equipment and then outputs to the various house hold stuff. For the phone its a regular wire connection into the wires already running to the phones. For internet its a Cat-5 network connection. And for TV its a coaxial cable. Is this all correct?


Yep. Exactly as you have asked.


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## Klyla (Mar 11, 2006)

Sorry if this is OT but it seems a good place to ask.

I am switching from DishNetwork to FIOS TV. On the dishnetwork receiver DVR when I hit "record" and then choose "stop at end of event" (the default) I often find later during playback that the last minute or 2 of the show wasn't recorded. I have had to do major research to find out how a lot of the movies I got caught up into watching ended. (Does she end up with him? Does he kill the bad guy or get killed?, etc.) Unbelievably aggravating!

I had a friend with TiVo (DirecTV) and he said this doesn't happen to him. Anybody that can report if I'm going to have this problem with Verizon's HD/DVR setup? When it says "end of event" does it MEAN it?

Thanks!


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## fertree (Mar 7, 2005)

Klyla said:


> On the dishnetwork receiver DVR when I hit "record" and then choose "stop at end of event" (the default) I often find later during playback that the last minute or 2 of the show wasn't recorded.
> Thanks!


So that's what they mean by Reverse Engineering! Dish took the HR10-250, rebuilt it, and managed to cut off the last 2 minutes rather than the first 2 minutes. I get it!


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## wje (Jan 8, 2005)

Klyla said:


> Sorry if this is OT but it seems a good place to ask.
> 
> I am switching from DishNetwork to FIOS TV. On the dishnetwork receiver DVR when I hit "record" and then choose "stop at end of event" (the default) I often find later during playback that the last minute or 2 of the show wasn't recorded. I have had to do major research to find out how a lot of the movies I got caught up into watching ended. (Does she end up with him? Does he kill the bad guy or get killed?, etc.) Unbelievably aggravating!
> 
> ...


Happens to me with my HR10-250. If this is the same problem, it's the content provider, not the DVR.... they don't always end when they say they will. Of course, it this is happening to you all the time, on multiple channels, it sounds like the DVR.


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## feldon23 (Mar 13, 2001)

gquiring said:


> And pay$$$$ big bucks to get one plus a monthly fee. And who knows if the series 3 will fix the speed issues.


If by "speed" issues, you're referring to the slowness of TiVo menus and handling season passes and other day-to-day activities, those problems were fixed on the standard DirecTV TiVos and regular TiVos. They're _hella_ fast.

It's only the HR10-250 HD TiVos which have not gotten this overhauled software.


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## slocko (Mar 5, 2004)

Not to get off topic, but is Direct still releasing the software to standard receivers? I have a friend who hasn't hooked up his Tivo to a phone line in 2 years and his Tivo is slow as molasses.


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## feldon23 (Mar 13, 2001)

Yes. He should lug it to a friend's house with a phone line and force it to make a couple of calls. He should upgrade from 3.1 to I believe 6.x series. Massive speed improvements. Basically it will start to redraw the screen before all the data is loaded, so sometimes things will pop in as it's loading. But this is a good tradeoff IMO. Also the database handling is just overall much better.


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## jsup (Mar 21, 2006)

This is fantastic. Thank you. I have been looking for this kind of review. 

I currently have Direct TV with four Tivo receivers. I can get FIOS TV however, I haven't done it because I wasn't sure if the DVR is any good. I'll keep my eye on this to help make my decision.

I don't see the point in dropping $600 on a TIVO Series 3 if I can get the FIOS HD for nothing.

Can anyone comment on the Media Center DVR? 

I look forward to your comments going forward.

I didn't realize this thread was so old. I never looked at the dates.

Any new info?


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## harley3k (Jul 19, 2006)

jsup said:


> This is fantastic. Thank you. I have been looking for this kind of review.
> 
> I currently have Direct TV with four Tivo receivers. I can get FIOS TV however, I haven't done it because I wasn't sure if the DVR is any good. I'll keep my eye on this to help make my decision.
> 
> ...


I switched to FIOS a couple months ago now and haven't looked back. I have 3 of the DVRs in the house and have been very pleased. The one in the bedroom was making strange clicking noises (the hard drive) at night and they came out and replaced it the next day after I called. The support line is pretty good. Most times when I call I get a person right away (they literally just answer the phone sometimes - a real human). They are available 24/7.

The DVRs have never missed a recording yet. They are very fast especially compared to the HR10-250 3.x system.

The only complaint I have is the limited 160gb hard drive. But this hasn't really been an issue yet. I used to 'save' stuff on my HR10-250 for ages and I just don't do that with the FIOS DVR. I've never had it record over something I hadn't watched yet. And I will also record some series on the bedroom DVR and others on the Living room DVR to spread storage over both units. I tend to watch talk shows or news shows in bed, so I record that stuff in the bedroom.

I could still see getting a Series3 Tivo for my living room at some point just for the storage and added features. Once the price gets closer to $500 (like this: http://www.pvrblog.com/pvr/2006/12/get_a_series3_t.html ) I will consider it.

The Media Center box did not interest me because I already use another device for streaming music/photos to my tv (a Mac Mini), and the remote boxes that let you watch recorded shows in another room don't do HD and I have only HD sets now, so that was a showstopper. They will show the HD content, just not in HD.

-h


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## jsup (Mar 21, 2006)

harley3k said:


> I switched to FIOS a couple months ago now and haven't looked back. I have 3 of the DVRs in the house and have been very pleased. The one in the bedroom was making strange clicking noises (the hard drive) at night and they came out and replaced it the next day after I called. The support line is pretty good. Most times when I call I get a person right away (they literally just answer the phone sometimes - a real human). They are available 24/7.
> 
> The DVRs have never missed a recording yet. They are very fast especially compared to the HR10-250 3.x system.
> 
> ...


The one item I use on the TIVO with Direct TV is flipping between the two tuners.

From what I understand the FIOS will let you record two and watch one.

Can you flip between two shows and have a "history" like the two tuner Tivo?

Thanks. This is the LAST question that I need answered before making the switch.


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## harley3k (Jul 19, 2006)

jsup said:


> The one item I use on the TIVO with Direct TV is flipping between the two tuners.
> 
> From what I understand the FIOS will let you record two and watch one.
> 
> ...


Sadly the FIOS DVRs do NOT have dual-buffers even though it has dual tuners.
This was my favorite feature with the DirecTivos.
Once I learned how to use it I found myself using it more and more especially when just surfing around.

DirecTVs new DVR (HR20) also does not have this feature, so I saw the writing on the wall that this feature was ultimately going away in order for me to have more HD content. So this did not factor in with my decision to switch.

I used tivo wishlists probably twice the entire time I used Tivo, so I don't miss it or any other part of Tivo with FIOS, except for the dual-buffers.

That would be another reason to get the Series3 eventually.

-h


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## jsup (Mar 21, 2006)

harley3k said:


> Sadly the FIOS DVRs do NOT have dual-buffers even though it has dual tuners.
> This was my favorite feature with the DirecTivos.
> Once I learned how to use it I found myself using it more and more especially when just surfing around.
> 
> ...


I was told by Verizon that you can record two shows while watching one live show.

They told be that if you're recording two, you can dual buffer.

Does it work this way?

I'm almost there.

I'd love to get a Series 3, but I'm not spending over 2 grand to replace all my current Tivos, I have four.


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## harley3k (Jul 19, 2006)

Another note about the FIOS DVR is on the 30-second skip. The Remote that they supply with the Motorola DVR does not have the skip button, but the box does have the capability.

I have 30 second skip by using my Logitech Harmony Remote. I've also read about people getting a Comcast remote from eBay and using that, since comcast also uses motorola DVRs.

The skipping action isn't as fast as even my very first stand-alone Sony Tivo for some reason, but it does the job.

Now that Comcast has Tivo software running (beta) on their Motorola DVRs, and knowing that it will also be coming to Cox DVRs in the future, I'm dreaming that Verizon will strike a deal with them also to offer this as an option.

If you read the history on the Verizon DVR software development - it started being written by Microsoft, but then Verizon took over the project in house and finished it because the MS code wouldn't run in the RAM space provided in the Motorola Boxes. So at least as a company at one time they were open to contracting out their software development......... Tivo on FIOS anyone? 

I read a quote from one of the Tivo guys at CES where he claimed that 'every major cable provider CEO' stopped by to talk to them. I hope one of them was from Verizon 

Hey, cuz once the S3 prices start dropping, Verizon will begin to see their $12.95/month DVR fees start to go away as people buy S3s. Sure they'll get the CableCard fees, but even if a few hundred thousand people get S3s, that extra $6 or so can start to add up to big losses. And by offering Tivo software on their DVRs as a premium service, they could make extra money even if they pay a chunk to Tivo corp. I know I would jump on upgrading my DVRs to Tivo software for extra money if it meant I wouldn't have to buy an S3 or two for my house.

-h


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## harley3k (Jul 19, 2006)

jsup said:


> I was told by Verizon that you can record two shows while watching one live show.
> 
> They told be that if you're recording two, you can dual buffer.
> 
> ...


I just tested this and if you start 2 channels recording then you can jump between them just by using the "LAST" channel button (No need to go back into the list of recordings and hit play). The kicker is that if you pause tuner#1, jump to tuner#2, and then back to #1 - it is no longer paused, but is cued up to the end of the recording. This kind of kills it. Sure you can rewind but that isn't really the point of dual-buffering action 

-h


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## harley3k (Jul 19, 2006)

jsup said:


> I was told by Verizon that you can record two shows while watching one live show.


You cannot record 2 shows while watching a third show Live. That would require 3 tuners. You can record 2 while watching a recorded show.

You also cannot record 2 shows and watch Video On Demand, as the VOD uses up one of your tuners.



jsup said:


> I'd love to get a Series 3, but I'm not spending over 2 grand to replace all my current Tivos, I have four.


Yah, I couldn't see doing that either. I could see having 1 Series3 in my main viewing room and just using the FiosDVRs in my bedrooms, and office.
At least until the S3s get really cheap in a couple of years and they get the Mutli-Room-Viewing working - then we're talkin' 

-h


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## jsup (Mar 21, 2006)

harley3k said:


> You cannot record 2 shows while watching a third show Live. That would require 3 tuners. You can record 2 while watching a recorded show.
> 
> You also cannot record 2 shows and watch Video On Demand, as the VOD uses up one of your tuners.
> 
> ...


Overall what do you think of the Fios? Cancell Direct TV and go Fios?

I am looking at their HD line up. Last question, promise:

They have HD national section so it's called. It includes stations such as:

825 TNT HD
826 ESPN HD
830 YES HD
833 HD NET
834 HD NET MOVIES
835 Universal HD
836 Discovery HD
837 Natinoal Geo HD
839 MTV HD

Are these channels a separate package, or are the included? They have asterisks by them indicating that they MAY be pay stations, it's unclear.

Thanks.


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## harley3k (Jul 19, 2006)

jsup said:


> Overall what do you think of the Fios? Cancell Direct TV and go Fios?
> 
> I am looking at their HD line up. Last question, promise:
> 
> ...


My HD Channel line up for Dallas looks slightly different than what you list here, but yes it's all included.

I had their internet service for over a year then I finally cancelled my DirecTV and made the switch after several of my friends switched over and I was able to use the DVR at their house I was convinced. I was very reluctant, but ultimately the better HD content and the raves from my friends won me over. I was really scared to move away from Tivo. But I knew I had the S3 option as a fallback. And even if I had to pay $800 for the S3, it was better than paying $299 each for new HR20 DVRs from DirecTV that I wouldn't own and couldn't sell later to recoup my investment....(they would've given me one for $199 or for only $29 shipping depending on how loud I threatened to cancel their service).

The asterisks for the HD channels means it requires a DVR to get them. There is no HD Package fee like with DirecTV. If you have the HD-DVR you have all the HD channels they offer including all those in your list. Also if you subscribe to any premiums you automatically get those HD channels too. The HD-DVR rental is $12.95 each per month, but their overall pricing is still cheaper than Direct, especially when you consider the HD Package premium Direct charges.

With DirecTV I had 3 DVRs, only one of them was HD. I only had Showtime and HBO premium channels, and I didn't pay for the HD Package once it stopped being free. Still after switching to Fios, I have 3 HD-DVRs, More HD Channels, all for about $15 less than I was paying DirecTV, and I also have Starz now (only thing I didn't add was Cinemax). I still had 1 year left on my DirecTV committment and they charge you $12.50/month for early termination so it cost me $150 up front to dump them, but since I was saving $15/month with Fios it was a no brainer.

By the way, the FIOS internet service IS required for Fios-TV. The Video-On-Demand and guide data all comes down from their FIOS Internet connection. But the internet is the best - cheaper than my CableModem was, and way faster. I have the 15mbps down/2mbps upload speed. The upload speed comes in handy when I access my home server or slingbox to stream my Fios video to work or while traveling.

-h


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## jsup (Mar 21, 2006)

harley3k said:


> My HD Channel line up for Dallas looks slightly different than what you list here, but yes it's all included.
> 
> I had their internet service for over a year then I finally cancelled my DirecTV and made the switch after several of my friends switched over and I was able to use the DVR at their house I was convinced. I was very reluctant, but ultimately the better HD content and the raves from my friends won me over. I was really scared to move away from Tivo. But I knew I had the S3 option as a fallback. And even if I had to pay $800 for the S3, it was better than paying $299 each for new HR20 DVRs from DirecTV that I wouldn't own and couldn't sell later to recoup my investment....(they would've given me one for $199 or for only $29 shipping depending on how loud I threatened to cancel their service).
> 
> ...


I've had FiOS internet since the day it was available. I tortured the guys on the pole "is it ready yet"? I have the commercial service. 20 meg down, five up, five static IP addresses.

What is the standard deal for $42.99 you get one box, an SD box, right?

For the $42.99 they include one box, right?


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## harley3k (Jul 19, 2006)

jsup said:


> I've had FiOS internet since the day it was available. I tortured the guys on the pole "is it ready yet"? I have the commercial service. 20 meg down, five up, five static IP addresses.
> 
> What is the standard deal for $42.99 you get one box, an SD box, right?
> 
> For the $42.99 they include one box, right?


I'm pretty certain that the basic package doesn't include a DVR.

One note about the commercial service. I also had business FIOS with 5 static IP addresses and the TV service does not currently work with this. For some reason you MUST be on the dynamic IP network in order for the DVRs to get the VOD and guide data from the FIOS servers. It sounds like some kind of routing issue to me, but they really couldn't explain it very well.

When you order the TV service, the people taking the orders don't really know this and they won't bother to check with you (they didn't even seem to have access to the system that showed I had internet service), at least that was my experience. I didn't know it wouldn't work until the installer came out to my house the first time. It took a good 4 hours for them to cut me over to the dynamic network though, so my install had to be rescheduled for the next day.

The big difference with the consumer FIOS internet is that they block port 80. I had to move my home web server to another port. FTP, slingbox, vonage, and everything else works fine....I think they just block the port 80 since there have been so many worms infecting unpatched web servers (IIS).

-h


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## Hersheytx (Feb 15, 2003)

harley3k said:


> DirecTVs new DVR (HR20) also does not have this feature, so I saw the writing on the wall that this feature was ultimately going away in order for me to have more HD content. So this did not factor in with my decision to switch.
> 
> I-h


Any chance you could call Verizon customer care and ask about upcoming HD Network channels? Are they going to have the bandwidth to add 100 plus HD networks like Directv this Fall?
I am really a huge fan of Verizon and Fios rollout. I love Directv but would consider leaving if I moved into an area with FIOS.


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## jsup (Mar 21, 2006)

harley3k said:


> I'm pretty certain that the basic package doesn't include a DVR.
> 
> One note about the commercial service. I also had business FIOS with 5 static IP addresses and the TV service does not currently work with this. For some reason you MUST be on the dynamic IP network in order for the DVRs to get the VOD and guide data from the FIOS servers. It sounds like some kind of routing issue to me, but they really couldn't explain it very well.
> 
> ...


Well that sucks, I have to have fixed IP. I'll have to call them on this.


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## JedK1 (Jul 6, 2004)

Hersheytx said:


> Are they going to have the bandwidth to add 100 plus HD networks like Directv this Fall?


I heard about the D* VOD Service coming out this year (2007). Something like 2000 titles available. (You must have High Speed Internet access like FIOS Internet to take advantage of D* VOD)

I haven't heard anything about 100 plus HD networks coming to D*. Can you point me to a link about this?

// on another note..
People are complaining like crazy about the D*'s new DVR. Buggy and lousy support, crashing like crazy, and missed recordings. People are also complaining about the update to the HD Tivo for D*.

So I'm afraid to get the new D* DVR and the new 5 LNB Dish. I don't want to pay the money and find out it doesn't work well. But 100 new HD channels... hmmm something to think about. It seems unlikely they have that much bandwidth though.

Thanks,
JedK


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## beanpoppa (Jan 7, 2004)

After experiencing my Comcast digital picture quality (I have basic cable because of my Internet service) using my TV's QAM tuner, I'm a little fed up with the horrible compression on D*. The digital (not HD) channels on Comcast look SO much better than the D* channels. I have 5 networked DTivos, and I would hate to give that up, but when FiOS comes to my neighborhood, it may be worth it to put in a A/V distribution system and leave D*.


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## eengert (Feb 11, 2005)

JedK1 said:


> I heard about the D* VOD Service coming out this year (2007). Something like 2000 titles available. (You must have High Speed Internet access like FIOS Internet to take advantage of D* VOD)
> 
> I haven't heard anything about 100 plus HD networks coming to D*. Can you point me to a link about this?
> 
> ...


Your characterization of the HR20 DVR is overstated. There are a few people who have lots of problems and are very vocal. Many of us, myself included, have never had a major issue with it. I've NEVER missed a recording. In fact, it is WAY more reliable than my 6.3+ HR10. And it has some nicer features. A couple of the features aren't enabled yet (dual live buffers), but are in the plans for future updates. It's one thing to prefer Tivo, it's another to say that the D* DVR is buggy and lousy. While the HR20 hasn't reached full maturity yet, it is reliable.


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## jsup (Mar 21, 2006)

I called VZE and they said I would need another ONT since I have have a static address.

They said they would put in an ONT, but they would have to charge me.

My response is that their technological problems donot result in my financial problem and that they should pay for the ONT. I told them I can call and cancel DTV and they would cave and provide me the HD stuff to keep me from canceling.

They said they'd call me back (just a customer service chick) and let me know if they can do the ONT for free.

Details to follow.......


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## Scott Corbett (May 29, 2003)

eengert said:


> Your characterization of the HR20 DVR is overstated. There are a few people who have lots of problems and are very vocal. Many of us, myself included, have never had a major issue with it. I've NEVER missed a recording. In fact, it is WAY more reliable than my 6.3+ HR10. And it has some nicer features. A couple of the features aren't enabled yet (dual live buffers), but are in the plans for future updates. It's one thing to prefer Tivo, it's another to say that the D* DVR is buggy and lousy. While the HR20 hasn't reached full maturity yet, it is reliable.


What are the nicer features of the HR20 relative to the HR10?
Thanks.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

Much faster, even with 6.3x, Free Space Indicator, and the ability to search the guide/access menu functions while watching recorded programs. You might not think the last one is a big deal. I didn't, _until_ I started using it. Now, I miss that when I'm using the TiVos.

Of course, dual buffers on the D-TiVos is a big advantage, but only when I'm watching Sports. The whole "keeping my D-TiVo for reliability" angle blew up in my face since it's been the D-TiVos that have missed recordings, not the HR20.


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## Scott Corbett (May 29, 2003)

What does the network connection do for you at this time?
Thanks.


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## eengert (Feb 11, 2005)

Scott Corbett said:


> What does the network connection do for you at this time?
> Thanks.


You can stream music and photos from an Intel Viiv PC.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

I've found that Music & Photos works on my Intel Celeron. It only required my stepping up to WMP11.


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## mikeny (Dec 22, 2004)

eengert said:


> You can stream music and photos from an Intel Viiv PC.


It works fine without an Intel ViiV PC 

Back to the FiOS DVR, QIP-6416, right, I can't believe how my 'in laws just ordered FiOS WITHOUT HD and they brought the QIP-6416, I suppose because it has the MRV funtion which they wanted. It seems to be a cool function. They actually have the 6416 sitting on a 13 inch SD kitchen TV. They set-up recording there and access them from their other 3 stand-alone FiOS boxes. They switched from expensive Cablevision (Family Cable, with no boxes). They seem to love the QIP 6416. The local HD channels and movie HD channels come in for them (free movie package for 1-3 months) [down rezzed of course on their TVs] I don't think they get the other HD package type stuff. I think contrary to what was reported, they need some extra tier sub for that.

It's amazing to me that D* is charging people $299 to lease an HD DVR and Verizon is bringing them to people's homes for free who don't even have HD!

I got my install the day before them but only for the internet and phone. I'm sticking with D* and the HR20 for the next 2 years. D* has made several good deals with me on the upgrades and programming credits, etc. I have grown to liking the equipment, service and reliabliity, and that includes my experiences with the HR10 and yes, the HR20.


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## Scott Corbett (May 29, 2003)

bidger said:


> I've found that Music & Photos works on my Intel Celeron. It only required my stepping up to WMP11.


I suppose that it will have better capabilties in the future?
Perhaps an implementation of HMC that was announced couple of years ago.
Thanks.


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## harley3k (Jul 19, 2006)

jsup said:


> I called VZE and they said I would need another ONT since I have have a static address.
> 
> They said they would put in an ONT, but they would have to charge me.
> 
> ...


Keep at them, and definately call them through the business-office and not the consumer line. My experience with them is always better. And I wouldn't always count on them calling you back. They don't seem to have a way to track that and the people you talk to can just drop it without consequence.

-h


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## jsup (Mar 21, 2006)

harley3k said:


> Keep at them, and definately call them through the business-office and not the consumer line. My experience with them is always better. And I wouldn't always count on them calling you back. They don't seem to have a way to track that and the people you talk to can just drop it without consequence.
> 
> -h


Called them again this morning. Had a little attitude and asked why no one has called me back yesterday.

I told them that their lack of technology is not my problem.

Bottom line........FREE ONT install. Told them that was the ONLY way I'd do it.

DTV just raised their rates so I hear.

FIOS included $100 AMEX Gift Cert and a free month. It will cost me $150 to cancell Direct TV. So it's a wash.

Anyone want to buy some TIVOs for DTV?


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## JedK1 (Jul 6, 2004)

Back to "HD DirecTivo vs FiOS DVR Comparison" (Title of the thread)

I checked the prices of the two and they're about the same. There isn't really a lot of savings.
My setup:
*DirecTV*
TOTAL CHOICE PLUS Monthly 48.99 
HD Package Monthly 9.99 
DIRECTV DVR Service Fee Monthly 5.99 
Additional Receiver 4.99 
Additional Receiver 4.99 
Sales Tax 0.24 
**********************
Total ~ $75

*For FIOS*
TV Premier $39.95
Multiroom DVR $19.95 (Not HD?)
HD DVR $12.95
Standard Box $3.95
Taxes ???
*********************
Total $76 plus taxes

How much are those taxes anyway? Satellite has much lower taxes.
You get more with FIOS (right now)
Multiroom (but that is an easy hack, and soon DirecTV will support this)
More channels (OK, but how many more watchable channels)
More HD (Someone in this thread says DirecTV is adding more)
VOD (Coming to DirecTV too this year)

Interactive Viewing (that's one up for DirecTV, new Set-Top-Box need and expensive)

Ability to add Tivo Series 3 (Very nice, but it is expensive. $500 a room. Not confirmed for FIOS)

Buffers for both tuners (If you stick with DirecTivo)


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## jsup (Mar 21, 2006)

> JedK1 said:
> 
> 
> > Back to "HD DirecTivo vs FiOS DVR Comparison" (Title of the thread)
> ...


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## JedK1 (Jul 6, 2004)

OK,
Just got off the phone with D*. Got a young lady who really knew her stuff.

First to answer jsup...
The new HR20 is interactive.
During sports events you can request stats for the game/sport you are watching.
But the real cool thing is soon you will be able to play games on the box. You will be able to play by yourself, or play against other D* viewers.

VOD. (Video on Demand)
D* is adding this too.

More Channels:
D* is launching two sats this year. They will support 150 new National HD Channels. 
You need the 5LNB dish to get them.

The HR20
D* is pushing a new version of the software this month. 
She gave me a list of upgrades. (Faster guide, bug fixes, about 10 things she said)

You can connect the HR20 to your computer and share videos and pictures. 
I would probably never use this feature.

A bunch of these features will require you to hook up the HR20 to your High Speed Internet router.

For the H10-250
There is another version of the software. Version 6.3b. 
She says when you restart the box, there's a point where you type in a code, and it will go out and fetch the software via your phone line. I didn't get the code because my H10 died last night (coincidence I guess).

The FIOS Box
I don't know all the things it can do because I don't own one.
But it seems like the FIOS box is better at sharing and it also serves as a Media Center. 

I'd have to assume that when more and more channels go HD, FIOS will push them through their fiber optic system. 


***************
Death of my HR10-250
Last night my DirecTivo HR10 died.
Internal Temperature Sensor is causing system failures I'm told.
So now I have to make the decision ASAP on what to do.

I can go to Cable (Ugh!)
I can go to FIOS (a definite possibility)

I can stay with D* 
$99 to upgrade and get a 5LNB dish
$19.99 to get a new HR10-250 
$0 to just get the 5LNB Dish (but I still need a new HD DVR)
All require a 2 year contract extension

OR

$749 to buy a new HR10-250 without a contract (more likely I would go to EBay)

Thanks,


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

Buy FiOS video and you'll get bundle pricing and save some money with your voice and internet.

New subscribers save having to buy hardware.



JedK1 said:


> Back to "HD DirecTivo vs FiOS DVR Comparison" (Title of the thread)
> 
> I checked the prices of the two and they're about the same. There isn't really a lot of savings.
> My setup:
> ...


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## harley3k (Jul 19, 2006)

jsup said:


> Called them again this morning. Had a little attitude and asked why no one has called me back yesterday.
> 
> I told them that their lack of technology is not my problem.
> 
> ...


Hehe... you got a better deal than me. I have my own Tivos for sale. Will probably do an eBay auction this weekend. Looks like the HR10-250s are still fetching $350-400ish which would cover your $150 early term fee nicely.

-h


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## harley3k (Jul 19, 2006)

JedK1 said:


> Back to "HD DirecTivo vs FiOS DVR Comparison" (Title of the thread)
> 
> I checked the prices of the two and they're about the same. There isn't really a lot of savings.
> My setup:
> ...


FYI, Fios just raised their rates too. About $5ish per package.
Also the MutliRoom DVR IS HD, but the other rooms can't show HD [yet] (They can show the HD content but downgraded).

Still the savings you're missing is here:
$5 discount on tv package if you also have Fios Internet
No $11 HD Package up charge with FIOS - you get those channels if you get the DVR
$ No upfront costs for "leasing" your HD-DVRs from FIOS as with DirecTV
$ The movie packages work out to be less. I ended up adding Stars (and get StarsHD) for less price as DirecTV without the HD package and without Stars.

Bottom line is my FiosTV bill is about $4 less than my DirecTV bill was and I've added the following:
HD-DVRs in 3 rooms (only had 1 before, plus only 1 SD DTivo) <--this alone would've cost me $800 bucks to upgrade my HR10 to an HR20 for $199 and add 2 more HR20s.
I added STARS
I now have all available HD channels (equiv to DirecTV HD Package plus more channels) - with Direct I only had my locals from my own Antenna, and Showtime and HBO - basically only 2 HD channels from DirecTVs satellites.

Drawbacks are:
Not any big sports packages as with DirecTV, but I never subscribed to those anyway.

-h


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## harley3k (Jul 19, 2006)

Death of my HR10-250
Last night my DirecTivo HR10 died.
Internal Temperature Sensor is causing system failures I'm told.
So now I have to make the decision ASAP on what to do.
I can go to Cable (Ugh!)
I can go to FIOS (a definite possibility)
I can stay with D*
$99 to upgrade and get a 5LNB dish
$19.99 to get a new HR10-250
$0 to just get the 5LNB Dish (but I still need a new HD DVR)
All require a 2 year contract extension
[/QUOTE said:


> Here's the thing. Unless you have a committment obligation with DirecTV you can cancel them and add them back any time in the future - they never really delete your account out of their system. It's a phone call to get them to turn it all back on.
> 
> FIOS is all a free installation, and there is no committment to the service. A friend of mine added them and then a month later decided to go back to DirecTV because he forgot he was a rabid football fan (duh) and he cancelled FIOS and it didn't cost him anything except a month of service. He ended up keeping the FIOS internet service anyway, which will come in real handy when he wants to use the VOD stuff from DirecTV because I'v read that they'll be using the internet with that stuff.
> 
> ...


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## harley3k (Jul 19, 2006)

JedK1 said:


> The HR20
> D* is pushing a new version of the software this month.
> She gave me a list of upgrades. (Faster guide, bug fixes, about 10 things she said)


Oh yah, they are definately pushing a new software update this month. Did you miss the one last week?   

Here's a list of the updates they've pushed since September.

HR20 Revision History:
Version 0x115 (1/8/07) Limited release
Version 0x10B (12/15/2006)
Version 0x108 (12/12/2006) Not released nationally
Version 0x104 (12/06/2006) Not released nationally
Version 0xFA (11/22/2006)
Version 0xF6 (11/21/2006) Not released nationally
Version 0xEF (11/15/2006)
Version 0xEB (11/07/2006) Not released nationally
Version 0xE3 (10/19/2006)
Version 0xDC (10/11/2006)
Version 0xD8 (10/04/2006)
Version 0xD1 (09/26/2006)
Version 0xCC (09/16/2006)
Version 0xBE (09/01/2006)
[Source: http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/2007/01/directvs_hr20_-.php ]

If you feel like paying $199-$299 for the pleasure of being a beta-tester for them, plus locking yourself into another 2 years of service, and if you cancel early paying up to $300 early termination fee ($12.50 for every month left on your contract), and returning your HR20 to them (that you paid for) then dive right in!

To be fair, several people have reported on this forum and on DBSTalk that they love their new HR20s and have not had (m)any problems with them.

Personally I liked having 3 HD-DVRs in my house that I didn't have to pay $800-900 for.

I think DirecTV is failing to face reality. They have joined the ranks of cable companies and DISH Network by developing their own craptastic HD-DVR and choosing not to contract that out to other vendors like they used to (Tivo, Sony, RCA, Phillips, Samsung, etc.). But they somehow think they can still charge a premium price for their own hardware and say that it's a "lease" on top of that. A lot of people were all too eager to pay $1000 for the HD-DirecTivo when it came out because it was the first of its kind and it was bleeding edge tech. This is no longer the case.

Without Tivo, what is now the differentiator with DirecTV's HD-DVR offerings and everyone else's? As far as I can tell, it's a Higher Price, Long Committment, and More Bugs?! No thanks.

-h


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## JJA (Feb 27, 2000)

I wonder what Verizon will do once our 1 year committment is up.

I understand the installation cost is approx $2000 for L&M. Will they discuss better pricing or be forced to remove their expensive equipment and the eat the labor if you threaten to quit.


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## jsup (Mar 21, 2006)

JJA said:


> I wonder what Verizon will do once our 1 year committment is up.
> 
> I understand the installation cost is approx $2000 for L&M. Will they discuss better pricing or be forced to remove their expensive equipment and the eat the labor if you threaten to quit.


Verizon is basing it's value on the value of a "sub" or subscription.

This year the value of a sub is about $4500-5000 considering you have voice, data, and video. So even if they spent $2K to install, unless 1/2 the people who order the service cancel, they are ahead in terms of stock value and value to the company.


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## harley3k (Jul 19, 2006)

jsup said:


> Verizon is basing it's value on the value of a "sub" or subscription.
> 
> This year the value of a sub is about $4500-5000 considering you have voice, data, and video. So even if they spent $2K to install, unless 1/2 the people who order the service cancel, they are ahead in terms of stock value and value to the company.


And you'll see a mix of services among some.
Some may only have voice.
Others voice and internet, etc.
I just have Internet and TV, but use Vonage for my phone.

-h


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## jsup (Mar 21, 2006)

harley3k said:


> And you'll see a mix of services among some.
> Some may only have voice.
> Others voice and internet, etc.
> I just have Internet and TV, but use Vonage for my phone.
> ...


True, but even a "video only" sub is $2500-3500 these days.

A friend of mine owns a small cable compnay. He sold his sub base in NYC to Cablevision for $3000 each. Cable only, 18 months ago.


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## Graeber (Nov 22, 2000)

I am considering FOIS TV and Internet. It says it includes a wireless router. Do I have to use their's because I want to use an Apple Airport Extreme for my network?


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## harley3k (Jul 19, 2006)

Graeber said:


> I am considering FOIS TV and Internet. It says it includes a wireless router. Do I have to use their's because I want to use an Apple Airport Extreme for my network?


Yes you can.

When I first ordered my internet service they gave me a D-Link wireless router.
I just took it out and put my netgear in place minutes after they left.
The services uses standard PPOE authentication which any router supports these days.

When you get the TV service, they add a bridge box to connect your coax cabling in your house to the internet, so your DVRs can get guide and VOD data.

When I got my TV service however, they supplied a new Actiontec router that had the bridge built-in, and so I was forced to use that. They just installed my Netgear behind their router so as to no interrupt my settings already in place, but I still had to login to the actiontec box and set it up to forward all ports to my netgear connection (I did this by setting up the netgear address as the Default DMZ address).

-h


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

Graeber said:


> I am considering FOIS TV and Internet. It says it includes a wireless router. Do I have to use their's because I want to use an Apple Airport Extreme for my network?


Not sure if all areas are using the same equipment, but in my case you don't have to use their router. Their modem and router are bundled into one unit, so I just disabled the wireless on their router, plugged in my own, and everything works great.


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## jsup (Mar 21, 2006)

harley3k said:


> Yes you can.
> 
> When I first ordered my internet service they gave me a D-Link wireless router.
> I just took it out and put my netgear in place minutes after they left.
> ...


Harley, FWIW, I had a netgear hooked up and was only getting 8MBPS. I just picked up a new DLINK and I am now geting 17 MBPS tested to the same speed test site.

I did repeated tests to ensure I had it right.

The netgear doesn't seem to support higher bandwidth very will. I have no idea why. Processors maybe?


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## [email protected] (Feb 14, 2006)

I recently had Fios TV installed with two dvrs that they said record 80 hours. I was very thorough when I checked into this as I would be coming from a 220hr TIVO. The website says up to 80 hrs (what situation would be less than 80 if it's an 80 hr dvr) I am not talking about HD. We have not got HD yet as they are backlogged on those tuners (which are SUPPOSED to be according to the technician 160 hr DVRs). Until then we wont even buy and HD tv. THe information that comes with the whole setup says up to 85 hrs or recording. Well I have 8.35 hrs recorded and its now 28% full. After hours of being on hold a technical told me it only records 25 hrs analog (not an issue) OR 40 hrs of standard tv. I'm PISSED. I think this is bait and switch. I'm not sure what to do at this moment. I'm about to have them come rip it all out and reset up my Direct TV. 

Anyone have this problem? Or any suggestions?


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## slocko (Mar 5, 2004)

They will leave the equipment in your house because it's cheaper to do so, and also if the next person wants FIOS, it's aready installed.

Also the equipment and the labor has been depreciated, so there is nothing for them to eat on that account.



JJA said:


> I wonder what Verizon will do once our 1 year committment is up.
> 
> I understand the installation cost is approx $2000 for L&M. Will they discuss better pricing or be forced to remove their expensive equipment and the eat the labor if you threaten to quit.


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