# Lifetime TV Roamio, reason to keep old non-lifetime Roamio



## Jason Reckner (Dec 2, 2019)

I have just jumped into the TiVo world. Picked up a Roamio and 3 minis from FB used a few weeks ago. Got them all up and running and seems to be a great/cheaper alternative vs. my old Dish Hopper setup.

I took the plunge and purchased another used Roamio w/ Lifetime service (and two more minis) off of eBay. Upgraded it to a 3TB WD Red and transferred all the recordings/passes via TiVo online. 

Just called TiVo to turn off the original Roamio. I was wondering if I should KEEP the original Roamio to use it as a loaner for parts, to keep my Lifetime Roamio up and running as long as possible, or is that not really a "thing"? Should I just re-sell it on the used market.

Thoughts?


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

You can keep it running along with the rest of the Tivo devices. You can use it as spare tuners to record, put on another tv, etc. Instead of turning off the Subscription, make it lifetime (all-in) Subscription. Paying monthly or yearly is too much.

Alternatively, you can sell it with lifetime and can gain more than the lifetime alone.


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## Jason Reckner (Dec 2, 2019)

ThAbtO said:


> Alternatively, you can sell it with lifetime and can gain more than the lifetime alone.


Where? Putting Lifetime would cost $550. I paid $300 for the 2nd Roamio w/ Lifetime and two minis.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Selling it without service would either not sell or get you less. Ebay is the most common place.


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## Scott9mm (Apr 5, 2015)

Call TiVo. See if they will offer a cheap (like $100) lifetime upgrade vs just ending service. Tell them you don't need it any more except maybe as a spare. You won't get much money selling a non-lifetime box. The serial number (and lifetime status) is burned into the motherboard but other parts could be spares for your lifetime box.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Scott9mm said:


> The serial number (and lifetime status) is burned into the motherboard


No, the lifetime (or just Tivo service) is linked to that TSN service number.


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## jlin (Nov 20, 1999)

I can confirm that $99/$199 retention deal for old Roamio is still available as of this morning


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## CopRock (Jul 13, 2014)

jlin said:


> I can confirm that $99/$199 retention deal for old Roamio is still available as of this morning


Can you expand on $99/$199 [havent heard of this offer]? Is it To upgrade any tivo ? 
I still have an old Series2 hooked up to two DTA boxes in spare bedroom and would love to get a refurbed basic Roamio from Tivo as long as I could transfer the lifetime to the new one [yeah I know probably wouldn't happen] ... Thanks in advance.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Tivo does not sell Roamio models any more, its mostly Bolts and the new Edge.

The $99/$199 is just lifetime service upgrade for those on monthly for a time. For this, you MUST call Tivo. You will not see it on Tivo.com, your account there, etc.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

ThAbtO said:


> Tivo does not sell Roamio models any more, its mostly Bolts and the new Edge.
> 
> The $99/$199 is just lifetime service upgrade for those on monthly for a time. For this, you MUST call Tivo. You will not see it on Tivo.com, your account there, etc.


And does TiVo initially offer $199 but then is willing to come down to $99 if negotiated?


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## Elton Noway (Nov 21, 2019)

Mikeguy said:


> And does TiVo initially offer $199 but then is willing to come down to $99 if negotiated?


[_sigh_] I wish that was the case... I've been on the month to month plan for a while now and have recently been contemplating switching to a Tablo. (Mainly because Tablo offers their lifetime plan for $149, whole house streaming... etc etc.) However, in truth I'm lazy and would rather keep the Tivo because I'm familiar with it and not keen on having to learn a new device. So... I called Tivo and selected the billing prompt. I told them I wanted to cancel my account. Obviously the CSR said Tivo would be sorry to see me go and wanted to know if I would consider staying if they were able to make the pricing more attractive. I said Yes. The CSR put me on hold, came back and said the best price they can do on a Lifetime is $199. I asked if they ever had any promos or sales on lower pricing for their lifetime plan. She said No... its never been lower than $199. When I said "No thank you" and told here "the $199 rate was more than I could afford"... She didn't pause, just said okay and cautioned me... I should be aware I need to cancel within the next 8 days or my month to month would rebill for another month! She was very polite, pleasant and professional... but for me anyway... the $199 was a take it or leave it.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Elton Noway said:


> [_sigh_] I wish that was the case... I've been on the month to month plan for a while now and have recently been contemplating switching to a Tablo. (Mainly because Tablo offers their lifetime plan for $149, whole house streaming... etc etc.) However, in truth I'm lazy and would rather keep the Tivo because I'm familiar with it and not keen on having to learn a new device. So... I called Tivo and selected the billing prompt. I told them I wanted to cancel my account. Obviously the CSR said Tivo would be sorry to see me go and wanted to know if I would consider staying if they were able to make the pricing more attractive. I said Yes. The CSR put me on hold, came back and said the best price they can do on a Lifetime is $199. I asked if they ever had any promos or sales on lower pricing for their lifetime plan. She said No... its never been lower than $199. When I said "No thank you" and told here "the $199 rate was more than I could afford"... She didn't pause, just said okay and cautioned me... I should be aware I need to cancel within the next 8 days or my month to month would rebill for another month! She was very polite, pleasant and professional... but for me anyway... the $199 was a take it or leave it.


Time for a go at TiVo customer support rep. roulette?


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## wbrightfl (Oct 31, 2013)

My roamio is pro is approaching 5 years and when I called in to get a lifetime deal the best I was offered was $549.99. I also need to begin the CSR roulette game. $99 is fair at this point, but nothing higher.


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## 53richart (Feb 26, 2019)

I don't consider $199 to be a bad price for lifetime. If you use it for 5 years, that comes out to $3.32/month. Of course if you can negotiate them down to $99, that is twice as good.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

TiVo will let you convert a Premiere to AllIn for $99 or $5/month. A Roamio will be $199.


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## vaquero (Jan 14, 2020)

I just bought a Roamio OTA and the only option to activate it was $14.99 month, no yearly or lifetime plan. The CSR also told me that all Roamios were both OTA and cable capable, that's why the service was twice as much as the Bolt OTA. Yet, I thought I had read on this forum that the Roamio OTA units might have the cable card slot, but it wasn't functional. The literature (setup guide) which came with my unit clearly says several times "TiVo Roamio OTA DVR" with no mention of cable.

I had planned on paying $69.99 for a year of service just to try out the Tivo experience, but no way I'm paying $14.99 a month for a tryout. Was the CSR being accurate with me?

Thanks.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

vaquero said:


> I just bought a Roamio OTA and the only option to activate it was $14.99 month, no yearly or lifetime plan. The CSR also told me that all Roamios were both OTA and cable capable, that's why the service was twice as much as the Bolt OTA. Yet, I thought I had read on this forum that the Roamio OTA units might have the cable card slot, but it wasn't functional. The literature (setup guide) which came with my unit clearly says several times "TiVo Roamio OTA DVR" with no mention of cable.
> 
> I had planned on paying $69.99 for a year of service just to try out the Tivo experience, but no way I'm paying $14.99 a month for a tryout. Was the CSR being accurate with me?
> 
> Thanks.


Sounds like you might have got an old OTA model. When the Roamio OTA first came out (2014) it was $49.99 and 14.99 a month with no other option (at the time the Roamio basic which did OTA or cable was 199.99). I bought one the first day they came out (have since upgraded a few times). The old ones still will only allow a monthly fee. I think the only way to get lifetime on it is to get the package deal (thats how I upgraded). The Roamio OTA never had a 6.99 option. The cable card slot was removed from the OTA (on the bottom there is a spot for the cable card. Take that cover off and you'll see there probably isnt one)

edit: I wonder what the first few numbers of the TSN is on yours? Reason I ask is I looked at my account and my Roamio OTA with All In (that I got as a package) the TSN starts 846-0011 whereas my Original Roamio OTA is 846-0001 (that one can only be on monthly)


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## vaquero (Jan 14, 2020)

unclehonkey said:


> Sounds like you might have got an old model. When the Roamio OTA first came out (2014) it was $49.99 and 14.99 a month with no other option (at the time the Roamio basic which did OTA or cable was 199.99). I bought one the first day they came out (have since upgraded a few times). The old ones still will only allow a monthly fee. I think the only way to get lifetime on it is to get the package deal (thats how I upgraded). The Roamio OTA never had a 6.99 option


Thanks for your response. Evidently, I've got one of the old ones. So, the service cost is tied to the machine? Sure makes it complicated for the used market. Of course, that suits Tivo just fine, they'd like for everyone to buy a new unit.

Does the Roamio Basic have a different service price structure from the Roamio OTA? I'm having difficulty trying to understand why the OTA only service would be $6.99 for one machine (Bolt) and $14.99 for another. Isn't it the same service that each is receiving? That would be kind of like saying that Netflix service is $16 month for Sony TV's but $23 for Samsungs.

I bought the Roamio just to try out the Tivo experience. It appears I should have bought a used Bolt. Are all Bolt OTA units subject to the same price structure as other Bolt OTA?

Thanks.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

vaquero said:


> Thanks for your response. Evidently, I've got one of the old ones.


what is the first 7 digits of the TSN? Its on the back of the machine and would be like 846-0011 (its 16 digits but as I mentioned above I have 2 different Roamios and the first 7 digits are different)



> So, the service cost is tied to the machine?


correct



> Sure makes it complicated for the used market. Of course, that suits Tivo just fine, they'd like for everyone to buy a new unit.


well the monthly for Roamio is 14.99. Most have a yearly or lifetime option except for the old Roamio OTA



> Does the Roamio Basic have a different service price structure from the Roamio OTA?


Both are 14.99 a month minimum. I know on the Roamio OTA the lifetime was cheaper.


> I'm having difficulty trying to understand why the OTA only service would be $6.99 for one machine (Bolt) and $14.99 for another. Isn't it the same service that each is receiving?


I dont have a Bolt so I cant comment on the guide difference. I'm running a Roamio and a TivoHD (Series 3...Roamio was series 5)



> I bought the Roamio just to try out the Tivo experience.


can you return it?



> It appears I should have bought a used Bolt. Are all Bolt OTA units subject to the same price structure as other Bolt OTA?


If you buy a used Roamio you can go month to month if you want to "try it out". New units have a 30 day cancellation policy with Tivo. The Bolt OTA is the only one with the lower monthly fee


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

So looking at the pricing info on tivo.com they mention this in regards to the Roamios


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## vaquero (Jan 14, 2020)

unclehonkey said:


> So looking at the pricing info on tivo.com they mention this in regards to the Roamios
> 
> View attachment 45783


Thanks, that's the webpage I didn't find when looking at the Tivo website.

My unit number begins with 8460000


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

vaquero said:


> Thanks, that's the webpage I didn't find when looking at the Tivo website.


Its on tivo.com/activate
You can enter the TSN and it gives you all the options available for the unit.


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## vaquero (Jan 14, 2020)

Okay, so as I understand, it would be best to buy a unit with lifetime service already on it. I looked on eBay and there are hundreds of units for sale. I see older units (pre Roamio) with lifetime, but don't know their capabilities.

Here's what I want. OTA only, don't need Cable Card. At least two tuners with capability of recording, playback, etc. At least ability to skip forward 30 seconds or so and back a shorter period. Would be nice to have the automatic commercial skip feature, but not completely necessary. Would be nice to have ability to add another unit which would use this box for tuning, viewing etc. on another TV without having to pay another service fee (is that a mini?). I don't need the ability to view apps, have that on TV already.

So, which Tivo devices would meet my needs?

Thanks for any and all help.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

vaquero said:


> Okay, so as I understand, it would be best to buy a unit with lifetime service already on it.


correct



> I looked on eBay and there are hundreds of units for sale. I see older units (pre Roamio) with lifetime, but don't know their capabilities.


Premiere (previous model to the Roamio) has only two tuners whereas the Roamio has 4. The Roamio has a better OTA tuner in it (I've used both)



> Here's what I want. OTA only, don't need Cable Card. At least two tuners with capability of recording, playback, etc. At least ability to skip forward 30 seconds or so and back a shorter period. Would be nice to have the automatic commercial skip feature, but not completely necessary.


Premiere, Roamio, Bolt and Edge all have those options. All have 4 tuners except the Premiere which only has two



> Would be nice to have ability to add another unit which would use this box for tuning, viewing etc. on another TV without having to pay another service fee (is that a mini?).


correct. And the mini already has service on it. It takes one tuner from the "mothership" (whatever your main Tivo is)



> So, which Tivo devices would meet my needs?


I personally would go with a Roamio over a Premiere mainly due to the 4 tuners the Roamio has.


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## vaquero (Jan 14, 2020)

unclehonkey said:


> correct
> 
> Premiere (previous model to the Roamio) has only two tuners whereas the Roamio has 4. The Roamio has a better OTA tuner in it (I've used both)
> 
> ...


Thanks, I really appreciate all your help.

There are several different Roamios available. Will all of them do OTA? Even the ones which are cable capable will do OTA, even if you have no cable card inserted?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

vaquero said:


> Thanks, I really appreciate all your help.
> 
> There are several different Roamios available. Will all of them do OTA? Even the ones which are cable capable will do OTA, even if you have no cable card inserted?


You need four tuners to support a Mini. All will do OTA, even those that can do cable. I have 4 Roamio boxes and 2 spare. I have zero Bolt boxes.


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## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

vaquero said:


> There are several different Roamios available. Will all of them do OTA? Even the ones which are cable capable will do OTA, even if you have no cable card inserted?





JoeKustra said:


> You need four tuners to support a Mini. All will do OTA, even those that can do cable. I have 4 Roamio boxes and 2 spare. I have zero Bolt boxes.


To make it perfectly clear for vaquero, all 4-tuner "Roamio" boxes will do OTA *or* cable.

The 6-tuner "Roamio Plus" or "Roamio Pro" will only work with cable.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Ooops. You're right. My answer was not accurate.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

JoeKustra said:


> You need four tuners to support a Mini. .


I thought you could use a mini with a Premiere?

edit: Tivo says you can (I guess the Premiere 4 tuner you can...not the two tuner...my bad)


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## vaquero (Jan 14, 2020)

Thanks guys.


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## bam1220 (Feb 17, 2016)

I bought a refurb Roamio OTA from Tivo either 2 or 3 years ago from their site. It was around Christmas time and they had them for I believe $99 or $149 with lifetime. (I could be wrong on the price though) I just upgraded the HDD in it last week. I removed the door from where the cable card would go and I actually do have a slot for a cable card. I was under the impression the unit was OTA only. But is it possible it can be use with cable? Would be an added bonus although I currently only need it for OTA.

Edit: Just looked up my orders on the Tivo site and the price was $199 from December 1, 2016. Says Series 5 Roamio OTA. Still curious since it has a cable card slot if it would work with one.


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## vaquero (Jan 14, 2020)

bam1220 said:


> I bought a refurb Roamio OTA from Tivo either 2 or 3 years ago from their site. It was around Christmas time and they had them for I believe $99 or $149 with lifetime. (I could be wrong on the price though) I just upgraded the HDD in it last week. I removed the door from where the cable card would go and I actually do have a slot for a cable card. I was under the impression the unit was OTA only. But is it possible it can be use with cable? Would be an added bonus although I currently only need it for OTA.
> 
> Edit: Just looked up my orders on the Tivo site and the price was $199 from December 1, 2016. Says Series 5 Roamio OTA. Still curious since it has a cable card slot if it would work with one.


How does one become aware of such a special sale as that from Tivo?


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## 53richart (Feb 26, 2019)

vaquero said:


> There are several different Roamios available. Will all of them do OTA? Even the ones which are cable capable will do OTA, even if you have no cable card inserted?


When I bought mine, I just bought a refurbished model direct from Tivo. It looked brand new and has worked flawlessly and it came with life time service. Has four tuners and has been perfect for me. All I do is OTA, don't use the streaming apps since I have a Roku.


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## 53richart (Feb 26, 2019)

vaquero said:


> How does one become aware of such a special sale as that from Tivo?


Just check their outlet shop online from time to time: https://www.tivo.com/shop/outlet
The renewed 1TB Roamio OTA is a little pricey now at $340...I think the last time I saw a sale on them they were $299.


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## vaquero (Jan 14, 2020)

53richart said:


> Just check their outlet shop online from time to time: https://www.tivo.com/shop/outlet
> The renewed 1TB Roamio OTA is a little pricey now at $340...I think the last time I saw a sale on them they were $299.


Thanks for that link. I searched the Tivo website looking for refurbished equipment. When I click on "SHOP", all I get offered is new equipment. I didn't see a link to "Outlet". I still don't see it even after I know it exists.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

bam1220 said:


> I bought a refurb Roamio OTA from Tivo either 2 or 3 years ago from their site. It was around Christmas time and they had them for I believe $99 or $149 with lifetime. (I could be wrong on the price though) I just upgraded the HDD in it last week. I removed the door from where the cable card would go and I actually do have a slot for a cable card. I was under the impression the unit was OTA only. But is it possible it can be use with cable? Would be an added bonus although I currently only need it for OTA.
> 
> Edit: Just looked up my orders on the Tivo site and the price was $199 from December 1, 2016. Says Series 5 Roamio OTA. Still curious since it has a cable card slot if it would work with one.


I got mine at the same time but I didnt have a cable card bracket in it. There is a thread here that you can retrofit it with one and yes it will work with cable. The Roamio OTA and Basic is the same guts and brains...so if the OTA has a cable card slot built in or added in later it will work with cable.

When you open the cable card door does the bracket look like this? Usually these were missing from the OTA but could be added


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

vaquero said:


> Thanks for that link. I searched the Tivo website looking for refurbished equipment. When I click on "SHOP", all I get offered is new equipment. I didn't see a link to "Outlet". I still don't see it even after I know it exists.


Here is the link to the 1TB Tivo OTA
Tivo OTA 1TB from the outlet store


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

vaquero said:


> How does one become aware of such a special sale as that from Tivo?


it usually was for folks who have an account set up on Tivo.com as they got an e-mail

or check this site because if any sale comes up folks post about it.


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## vaquero (Jan 14, 2020)

I came across a guy who is selling a white Bolt. He thinks it will work with OTA or cable, but has only used it with cable. How do I find out if his white Bolt will work OTA?

Thanks again.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

6 tuner Roamio and Bolt = cable only.


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## vaquero (Jan 14, 2020)

ThAbtO said:


> 6 tuner Roamio and Bolt = cable only.


Thanks, I'll try to find out how many tuners his white Bolt has.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

vaquero said:


> Okay, so as I understand, it would be best to buy a unit with lifetime service already on it. I looked on eBay and there are hundreds of units for sale. I see older units (pre Roamio) with lifetime, but don't know their capabilities.
> 
> Here's what I want. OTA only, don't need Cable Card. At least two tuners with capability of recording, playback, etc. At least ability to skip forward 30 seconds or so and back a shorter period. Would be nice to have the automatic commercial skip feature, but not completely necessary. Would be nice to have ability to add another unit which would use this box for tuning, viewing etc. on another TV without having to pay another service fee (is that a mini?). I don't need the ability to view apps, have that on TV already.
> 
> ...


A 4 tuner Roamio does not have Moca networking built in, so your second room would need to be wired for ethernet to use a Mini or purchase a separate Moca adapter for the Roamio.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

bam1220 said:


> I bought a refurb Roamio OTA from Tivo either 2 or 3 years ago from their site. Would be an added bonus although I currently only need it for OTA.
> Still curious since it has a cable card slot if it would work with one.


There is a picture of the card holder in an earlier post. Notice the green eject lever and that the two screws are still in their holes. Those are captive screws. This is a TiVo OEM card bracket. The bracket from eBay does not have the eject tab and no captive screws. Since your Roamio was a refurb, the previous owner may have installed the bracket and forgot to pull it before returning the box. I have a Roamio OTA and adding the bracket gave me a cable unit. BTW, that bracket must be removed if you need to replace the fan. I bought that particular Roamio on BF and there were many failures of the fan in that "Christmas present" that only lasted six weeks.


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## bam1220 (Feb 17, 2016)

vaquero said:


> How does one become aware of such a special sale as that from Tivo?


There was a link that was posted in these forums during the sale. I appreciate whomever it was that posted it back then.


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## bam1220 (Feb 17, 2016)

unclehonkey said:


> I got mine at the same time but I didnt have a cable card bracket in it. There is a thread here that you can retrofit it with one and yes it will work with cable. The Roamio OTA and Basic is the same guts and brains...so if the OTA has a cable card slot built in or added in later it will work with cable.
> 
> When you open the cable card door does the bracket look like this? Usually these were missing from the OTA but could be added
> View attachment 45804


I don't have a bracket. Just the slot for a cable card to be plugged in.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

bam1220 said:


> I don't have a bracket. Just the slot for a cable card to be plugged in.


The "slot" is the bracket. If you open the cover for the cable card, and all you see is aluminum metal with a hole where the pins of the card holder would plug into, then you don't have a bracket/holder/slot.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> The "slot" is the bracket. If you open the cover for the cable card, and all you see is aluminum metal with a hole where the pins of the card holder would plug into, then you don't have a bracket/holder/slot.


This is the CableCARD *bracket* from a 4-tuner Roamio; a Roamio OTA would be missing this component, and you'd just see an empty bay with an opening to the pin connector to which the bracket would connect. (I believe that the same bracket was used in the BOLT series.)


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## Elton Noway (Nov 21, 2019)

pfiagra said:


> To make it perfectly clear for vaquero, all 4-tuner "Roamio" boxes will do OTA *or* cable.


Unfortunately, stating: "all 4-tuner "Roamio" boxes will do OTA *or* cable" might confuse or mislead some members leaving them to think they can do both. A more definitive was to say it would be "other than model TCD846500... all 4-tuner "Roamio" boxes will do either OTA *or* cable but not both"

Better yet.. Perspective Roamio owners should refer to this chart published by Tivo:


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## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

Elton Noway said:


> Unfortunately, stating: "all 4-tuner "Roamio" boxes will do OTA *or* cable" might confuse or mislead some members leaving them to think they can do both. A more definitive was to say it would be "other than model TCD846500... all 4-tuner "Roamio" boxes will do either OTA *or* cable but not both"
> 
> Better yet.. Perspective Roamio owners should refer to this chart published by Tivo:


I think my answer was definitive enough since I put quotes around "Roamio".


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## Elton Noway (Nov 21, 2019)

vaquero said:


> Okay, so as I understand, it would be best to buy a unit with lifetime service already on it. I looked on eBay and there are hundreds of units for sale. I see older units (pre Roamio) with lifetime, but don't know their capabilities.


I watched the units on ebay for a couple months but as you may have noticed the units with Lifetime subscriptions typically go for a premium price. I decided if I could get a Roamio with a lifetime subscription for $240 or less I'd be ahead of the game. (figuring $40 is the average selling price of a Roamio with no subscription and $199 to buy a Lifetime sub from Tivo).

TIP: If you live in or near a relatively large city be sure to check craigslist.org! I wish I would have checked sooner. In the end I got both of my units off craigslist. The first unit I got on craigs was a brand new in the box Base Roamio TCD846500 for $45. One month later (the best deal) I found a used base Roamio TCD846500 - Antenna and/or Digital with Lifetime subscription for $120 ! SWEET!

When purchasing a used Tivo (from a third party with no return policy) your best bet is to check the the TCD model number on the unit against the TiVo Service Number and Model Number Table to verify verify its capabilities.


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## vaquero (Jan 14, 2020)

Elton Noway said:


> I watched the units on ebay for a couple months but as you may have noticed the units with Lifetime subscriptions typically go for a premium price. I decided if I could get a Roamio with a lifetime subscription for $240 or less I'd be ahead of the game. (figuring $40 is the average selling price of a Roamio with no subscription and $199 to buy a Lifetime sub from Tivo).
> 
> TIP: If you live in or near a relatively large city be sure to check craigslist.org! I wish I would have checked sooner. In the end I got both of my units off craigslist. The first unit I got on craigs was a brand new in the box Base Roamio TCD846500 for $45. One month later (the best deal) I found a used base Roamio TCD846500 - Antenna and/or Digital with Lifetime subscription for $120 ! SWEET!
> 
> When purchasing a used Tivo (from a third party with no return policy) your best bet is to check the the TCD model number on the unit against the TiVo Service Number and Model Number Table to verify verify its capabilities.


Thanks for that link.


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