# TiVo transfers to Macintosh using Toast 9



## hearncl (Oct 16, 2006)

TiVo's official way to transfer video to a Macintosh is to use Roxio Toast. The transferred video has a proprietary ".tivo" file extension. Once transferred, Toast can export the video in a variety of other formats. However, the video will only export at a low resolution, 480 x 360, regardless of the original resolution. Roxio states that this is the maximum size allowed by TiVo.

With the previous version of Toast, version 8, it was possible to enable an "expert" mode (as described here) which allowed export at other resolutions. This doesn't seem to work with the new version of Toast, version 9.

Does anyone know if there a way to enable an "expert" mode for exporting .tivo files in Toast 9?


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## kas25 (Mar 10, 2003)

hearncl said:


> TiVo's official way to transfer video to a Macintosh is to use Roxio Toast. The transferred video has a proprietary ".tivo" file extension. Once transferred, Toast can export the video in a variety of other formats. However, the video will only export at a low resolution, 480 x 360, regardless of the original resolution. Roxio states that this is the maximum size allowed by TiVo.
> 
> With the previous version of Toast, version 8, it was possible to enable an "expert" mode (as described here) which allowed export at other resolutions. This doesn't seem to work with the new version of Toast, version 9.
> 
> Does anyone know if there a way to enable an "expert" mode for exporting .tivo files in Toast 9?


 I just got Toast and noticed the same. So far it has worked flawlessly but I don't get the resolution constraints. As far as I know there isn't any other software (ie Visual Hub) that can convert the .tivo files to Mpeg 4.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

kas25 said:


> As far as I know there isn't any other software (ie Visual Hub) that can convert the .tivo files to Mpeg 4.


TiVoDecode will "convert" .tivo -> MPEG-2. TiVoDecode Manager wraps a GUI around it and adds some useful functionality, but I don't believe it's actively being developed anymore.


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## hearncl (Oct 16, 2006)

kas25 said:


> I just got Toast and noticed the same. So far it has worked flawlessly but I don't get the resolution constraints. As far as I know there isn't any other software (ie Visual Hub) that can convert the .tivo files to Mpeg 4.


The low resolution of TiVo video transferred and converted using Toast has been discussed before on this forum. In Toast 8, this could be avoided using the "expert" mode, but as far as I know, this doesn't work in Toast 9. As pointed out above, the TiVo Decoder applescript converts .tivo files into MPEG-2 movie files, which can be processed by Visual Hub and other programs. Although TiVoDecode Manager is apparently no longer supported, there is a new program called TiVo Butler which has similar functionality. Although still in early beta form, it looks very promising.


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## ebaur (Mar 24, 2008)

TiVo Butler uses mencoder to convert from MPG to MP4, and there is an advanced setting in the prefs to be able to change the resolution, it should default to 640x480.

If you look, there is a setting for "pp=lb,scale=640:480,harddup", which you can probably change to a higher resolution if you want. There is some truth to the TiVo not supporting higher resolution, however. This scaling may not look good since the source data is smaller. I haven't played with it much, I admit.

(disclaimer: I'm the developer of TiVo Butler)


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

I think you people should complain to Roxio about these issues. If they took away useful functionality, that's bad.

BTW, you can also download manually from the Tivo via https://tivoipaddress/nowplaying/ But you get not-usefully named files, and have to use tivodecode to then convert them.

I haven't found a way to *edit* these recordings after downloading them and converting. If anybody knows that, please elaborate. (I just want to save the musical guest from a talk show, for example.. in the long run, to convert just the audio portion for an ipod song.)


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## hearncl (Oct 16, 2006)

mattack said:


> I think you people should complain to Roxio about these issues. If they took away useful functionality, that's bad.
> 
> BTW, you can also download manually from the Tivo via https://tivoipaddress/nowplaying/ But you get not-usefully named files, and have to use tivodecode to then convert them.
> 
> I haven't found a way to *edit* these recordings after downloading them and converting. If anybody knows that, please elaborate. (I just want to save the musical guest from a talk show, for example.. in the long run, to convert just the audio portion for an ipod song.)


The .tivo file downloaded using Toast is not resolution-limited. It's the conversion to other formats that is limited to a maximum of 480 x 360. According to Roxio, that's a TiVo requirement.

TiVoDecode will convert .tivo files to MPEG-2 without reduction in resolution. As far as editing, on the Mac you can use MPEG Streamclip to edit the MPEG-2 files. (Apple's MPEG-2 plugin is also needed.) MPEG Streamclip can also export the edited file in a variety of formats.


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## kas25 (Mar 10, 2003)

hearncl said:


> The .tivo file downloaded using Toast is not resolution-limited. It's the conversion to other formats that is limited to a maximum of 480 x 360. According to Roxio, that's a TiVo requirement.
> 
> TiVoDecode will convert .tivo files to MPEG-2 without reduction in resolution. As far as editing, on the Mac you can use MPEG Streamclip to edit the MPEG-2 files. (Apple's MPEG-2 plugin is also needed.) MPEG Streamclip can also export the edited file in a variety of formats.


If you use TivoDecode to download, you can use Toast to convert and you will have the "custom" settings option.


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## hearncl (Oct 16, 2006)

kas25 said:


> If you use TivoDecode to download, you can use Toast to convert and you will have the "custom" settings option.


How do you activate the "custom" settings option with Toast 9? Have you read the first post in this thread?


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## kas25 (Mar 10, 2003)

hearncl said:


> How do you activate the "custom" settings option with Toast 9? Have you read the first post in this thread?


When converting non-.tivo files, just hit the red button at the bottom right of the screen to start the convert. It will then bring up a screen to ask you to choose your settings (ie, high, fastest). One of the options will be "custom". Are you saying you don't see it there? If not, perhaps it has something to do with me selecting Apple TV as my default device for conversions?


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## kas25 (Mar 10, 2003)

hearncl said:


> How do you activate the "custom" settings option with Toast 9? Have you read the first post in this thread?


If you are asking how to bypass the Tivo file restriction, I don't know the answer. I am interested in the answer though.


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## kzrivera (Mar 18, 2008)

Has anyone asked Tivo why there is a file restriction of 480x360? Is it so the entertainment industry considers the low quality as non-competitive and allows exported "copies" without raising a fuss?

As far as the custom settings, it sounds as though if you use "Tivo Decode Manager" (TDM) to transfer the files from your box...
- Yes, I know TDM is no longer supported... 
- it was developed to be used until Tivo came up with a way to support Macs 
- it will still run on Leopard, but not with queue (do one at a time) so I still find it useful!
- The TDM resulting file is an MP4 (vs. Toast's .tivo)
It sounds as though Toast will allow custom settings on a non-.tivo file so that MP4 file should be advance-editable.

But a lot of the power of toast 9 for me was to see if I can skip these many steps. I still haven't bought it because of these very concerns.

I know if you want a juicy version of the file, you need the res, but fur those just wanting mobile copies for a Touch, I want the smaller file size (so lower res works for me). It all depends on your end goal. Good luck!


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## wilfried (Feb 10, 2003)

What codec is needed to get audio on files decoded with tivodecode ?


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

wilfried said:


> What codec is needed to get audio on files decoded with tivodecode ?


Depends on what variety of TiVo you're transferring from. For Series 2 boxes, this will be MPEG 1, Layer 2 audio if I remember right. Series 3 boxes will have whatever format audio was embedded in the digital stream, usually AC3.


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## hearncl (Oct 16, 2006)

.tivo files decoded to MPEG-2 with tivodecode will open in QuickTime, but play with no audio. Other apps such as VLC Media Player and MPEG Streamclip (with Apple MPEG-2 plug-in) will play the file with audio.


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## ebaur (Mar 24, 2008)

Has anyone tried using ffmpeg to convert videos? I'm trying to use that and I can get the video to convert, but not audio. (This is video from a Series 2 at this point.)


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## collin (Jan 2, 2008)

kzrivera said:


> Has anyone asked Tivo why there is a file restriction of 480x360? Is it so the entertainment industry considers the low quality as non-competitive and allows exported "copies" without raising a fuss?


Perhaps an easier question is: Does the Windows version of Tivo Desktop also have these resolution limits? If it doesn't then they don't have a leg to stand on in terms of limiting the res of the Mac version. Anybody know?


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## iamnotmad (Feb 15, 2003)

EDIT - I described a method below that worked for me on a few files but not for others, nor on a new file I just tried - looks like the best bet to get .Tivo Files to MPG is just to use TivoDecode or TivoDecodeManager (GUI for Tivo Decode).

Hi all, you can use Toast 9 (or 8) Tivo transfer, then use VisualHub to extract the MPG (2) out of the .tivo file without re-encoding (see below). VisualHub will also re-encode directly from the .tivo to to just about anything if you want. It's a great app.

Or you can use Tivo Decode manager (not kept up, but works) and it will xfer files from the Tivo directly to mpg (2) do do with whatever you want.

**To extract mpeg from .tivo using visualhub:

1) start VisualHub, drag your .tivo file in.
2) click mpg at the top, click mpeg2 checkbox.
3) click advanced and in the video section click the drop down list where it reads extra ffmpeg flags. Choose "Copy original video track (passthrough)". In the audio section do the same. "Copy original audio track (passthrough)".
4) Close the advanced window and click start.

It will estimate to take a long time, but it is wrong, depending on your computer and the size of the file it should only take a few minutes or less.

I extracted 10+ GB episodes of PBS's "The War" and it only took a few minutes.

You end up with a MPG file which is mpg2. Remember you cannot play mpg2 with Quicktime unless you have the extra for pay plug in from apple or you have another plug-in like Perian. VLC will play it too.

Good luck, have fun.

edit - just to be clear, I dont work for the visual hub guys or anything, this process worked for me on the only files I tried (PBS - The War) after pulling from my Tivo S3. I assume it would work for non-hd files and files pulled from Tivo HD's also. Obviously I make no guarantees!


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## kas25 (Mar 10, 2003)

iamnotmad said:


> Hi all, you can use Toast 9 (or 8) Tivo transfer, then use VisualHub to extract the MPG (2) out of the .tivo file without re-encoding (see below). VisualHub will also re-encode directly from the .tivo to to just about anything if you want. It's a great app.
> 
> Or you can use Tivo Decode manager (not kept up, but works) and it will xfer files from the Tivo directly to mpg (2) do do with whatever you want.
> 
> ...


So this sounds like a good fix is Tivodecode doesn't transfer things properly. I can use Toast 9 to transfer the .tivo file and convert in VH which will allow a higher quality conversion? Thanks.


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## iamnotmad (Feb 15, 2003)

kas25 said:


> So this sounds like a good fix is Tivodecode doesn't transfer things properly. I can use Toast 9 to transfer the .tivo file and convert in VH which will allow a higher quality conversion? Thanks.


You can convert (transcode) the .tivo file to just about anything you want in VH. Or you can follow those steps above to simply "extract" the mpeg2 file from it's .tivo container - it does not change the quality at all, or process the video in any way when you do passthrough.


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## kas25 (Mar 10, 2003)

iamnotmad said:


> You can convert (transcode) the .tivo file to just about anything you want in VH. Or you can follow those steps above to simply "extract" the mpeg2 file from it's .tivo container - it does not change the quality at all, or process the video in any way when you do passthrough.


Thanks. I tried once to convert a .tivo file in VH and got an error. I didn't follow your spec changes so that is probably why. Thanks.


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## collin (Jan 2, 2008)

Does the web browser method of downloading the .tivo files discussed here: 
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=388913

mean that toast isn't necessary at all to download the files? if so, then the only advantage of toast in this area is that it can download and burn the files in one step, but due to the resolution limits it is not the optimal process. Correct?


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## hearncl (Oct 16, 2006)

iamnotmad said:


> **To extract mpeg from .tivo using visualhub:
> 
> 1) start VisualHub, drag your .tivo file in.
> 2) click mpg at the top, click mpeg2 checkbox.
> ...


I tried this method of extracting mpeg from *.tivo using Visual Hub, but unfortunately it didn't work for me. I downloaded a large (7.7 GB) high-def *.tivo file (1920 x 1080) from my S3 using Toast. I used the indicated Visual Hub settings. A *.mpg file was created, but is was only about 50 MB in size and wouldn't play in VLC. Are these VH settings perhaps dependent on the resolution or other properties of the *.tivo file?

The same *.tivo file extracted to a proper MPEG-2 (*.mpg) file using the TiVo Decoder applescript.


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## iamnotmad (Feb 15, 2003)

hearncl said:


> I tried this method of extracting mpeg from *.tivo using Visual Hub, but unfortunately it didn't work for me. I downloaded a large (7.7 GB) high-def *.tivo file (1920 x 1080) from my S3 using Toast. I used the indicated Visual Hub settings. A *.mpg file was created, but is was only about 50 MB in size and wouldn't play in VLC. Are these VH settings perhaps dependent on the resolution or other properties of the *.tivo file?
> 
> The same *.tivo file extracted to a proper MPEG-2 (*.mpg) file using the TiVo Decoder applescript.


Bummer, thats too bad. Like I mentioned it worked on the only 7 files I tried it on, all the same format from the same source - PBS HD, The War, pulled form my S3. 10GB+ files.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

collin said:


> Does the web browser method of downloading the .tivo files discussed here:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=388913
> 
> mean that toast isn't necessary at all to download the files? if so, then the only advantage of toast in this area is that it can download and burn the files in one step, but due to the resolution limits it is not the optimal process. Correct?


Well, I *believe* that the web browser method is essentially a "back door" and not the officially supported solution.

In other words, they *could* do software updates to Toast, the Windows software, AND the Tivos to change them all to use a different transfer method.

That seems unlikely, IMHO.. So I think that the *real world" answer to your question, at least in the meantime, is yes.

My issue with the web browser method is that the downloads are named by default with the show name, and NO other info. I believe the supported methods attach a lot more info to the downloads (even if in a separate metadata file or something).


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

iamnotmad said:


> **To extract mpeg from .tivo using visualhub:
> 
> 1) start VisualHub, drag your .tivo file in.
> 2) click mpg at the top, click mpeg2 checkbox.
> ...


No offense, but 
1) download file in web browser
2) drag file to Terminal
3) type tivodecode -o filename filename.TiVo
seems like way fewer steps than that (in terms of real world usage, don't say 4 steps vs 3 since I wrote it that way)... and I'm even lazy in that I might modify tivodecode to not require the manual filename addition.


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## iamnotmad (Feb 15, 2003)

mattack said:


> No offense, but
> 1) download file in web browser
> 2) drag file to Terminal
> 3) type tivodecode -o filename filename.TiVo
> seems like way fewer steps than that (in terms of real world usage, don't say 4 steps vs 3 since I wrote it that way)... and I'm even lazy in that I might modify tivodecode to not require the manual filename addition.


No offense taken, but, obviously there are other ways, even quicker and easier than that. Such as:

1) Copy file from Tivo using Tivo Decode Manager (GUI for tivodecode)

Apparently what I did will not even work all the time, so TD or TDM is the way to go here.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

iamnotmad said:


> No offense taken, but, obviously there are other ways, even quicker and easier than that. Such as:
> 
> 1) Copy file from Tivo using Tivo Decode Manager (GUI for tivodecode)


I would, but on both my S3 & TivoHD, it downloads the same program OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER.. never finishes.

and I've never been able to figure out a way to contact the author of TivoDecodeManager.. the various links go to dead pages or unrelated pages.


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## hearncl (Oct 16, 2006)

mattack said:


> I would, but on both my S3 & TivoHD, it downloads the same program OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER.. never finishes.


In TiVoDecode Manager, be sure you are not using one of the MPEG-4 download format options. These are known not to work when downloading from a Series 3. The MPEG-2 (native) download format still works, at least for me.

An alternative is to use the TiVo Decoder AppleScript. This is an AppleScript droplet that runs the open source "tivodecode" program and converts any *.tivo video file dropped on it into an MPEG-2 movie file. (Download the *.tivo file using Toast or the S3's built-in web page.) TiVo Decoder can be downloaded from versiontracker.com.

(Although the question asked in the original post of this thread hasn't been answered, the other questions brought up have all been discussed earlier at length in the Series3 Forum. But repetition's not necessarily a bad thing.)


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## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

hearncl said:


> TiVo's official way to transfer video to a Macintosh is to use Roxio Toast. The transferred video has a proprietary ".tivo" file extension. Once transferred, Toast can export the video in a variety of other formats. However, the video will only export at a low resolution, 480 x 360, regardless of the original resolution. Roxio states that this is the maximum size allowed by TiVo.
> 
> With the previous version of Toast, version 8, it was possible to enable an "expert" mode (as described here) which allowed export at other resolutions. This doesn't seem to work with the new version of Toast, version 9.
> 
> Does anyone know if there a way to enable an "expert" mode for exporting .tivo files in Toast 9?


Hi, I'd like to go back to the original question of the thread, quoted above, which basically was whether or not there is a way in Toast 9 to get better video resolution in exported files than the nominally permitted 480 x 360. As hearncl said, there was a way to get Toast 8 to do that, but it seems to have vanished in Toast 9.

In my experience with Toast 9, the output resolution for standard-def fare recorded from Comcast's analog Turner Classic Movies channel on my Series3 TiVo and exported by Toast for Apple TV (Automatic) is actually 640 x 480 pixels, which is seemingly not downrezzed at all (!).

For 720p high-def fare recorded from Comcast's Fox HD channel, the output resolution is 960 x 540. That seems to be downrezzed by 25% both vertically and horizontally.

I have yet to try exporting 1080i fare in Toast 9.

The disclaimer you see when you initiate an export in Toast 9, to the effect that 480 x 360 output is the best you can get, does not seem to hold true.

I redid, in Terminal,

*defaults write com.roxio.Toast "tivo export mode" -integer 1*

the magic formula that allowed the full-fledged "tivo export mode" in Toast 8. I did that after I installed Toast 9. Although doing that did not cause the expanded list of selectable output file formats and so forth to appear when I initiated an export in Toast 9, as it did in 8, it may still be the case (or it may not) that this "tivo export mode" setting of 1 in the com.roxio.Toast.plist file enables resolutions greater than 480 x 360 in output files from Toast 9.

At any rate, _something_ is causing my Toast 9 to output files with at least decent, and sometimes full, resolution for Apple TV.


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## marleyboy (Jan 3, 2005)

epstewart said:


> I redid, in Terminal,
> 
> *defaults write com.roxio.Toast "tivo export mode" -integer 1*
> 
> ...


This terminal trick seems to have done it for me with Toast 9. File converted in Toast last night was done at a lower resolution than when I did the same file this morning in Toast after entering that command in the terminal. Tested a couple of other files and they also converted over at resolutions larger than the supposed limit.


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## kas25 (Mar 10, 2003)

I thought it was the conversion that limited resolution, not the export?


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## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

kas25 said:


> I thought it was the conversion that limited resolution, not the export?


The conversion and the export are basically one and the same.

When you hit the big red button in Toast's "Convert: Video Files" pane, and then you you deal with the drop-down dialog in which you choose a device, quality, and save-to location, the conversion _and_ the export both begin.

The process transcodes the input .TiVo file, which is in an "MPEG-2 Muxed" format and is also encoded for copy protection, to (in the case of an Apple TV conversion) the MPEG-4/h.264 codec and exports it to a "container" file with a file format associated with the filename extension .m4v, which is playable in iTunes and on an Apple TV.

In doing all that, Toast circumvents the copy protection that prevents other video software (with certain exceptions) from using .TiVo files.

So the conversion and export both happen at once. Prior to that, the transfer of the original recording from the TiVo box to the .TiVo file on the Mac has taken place, thanks to the TiVo Transfer app. But that transfer does not itself involve a conversion.

So for all practical purposes, "converting" and "exporting" mean the same thing in this context.


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## Andy D (Feb 1, 2008)

I have a couple of issues that have been discussed in this thread.

1. I have noticed that a file transferred from TiVo to my Mac using the TiVo Transfer that comes with Toast 9 (version 1.2.x) seems to make it so the file cannot be used with the TiVo Decoder droplet. The TiVo Decoder errors out, but when I drop a file transferred by TiVo Transfer 1.1.1 from Toast 8, there is no problem.

2. I purchased the MPEG-2 codec from Apple for Qucktime Pro and I can't get it to work. When I try to play am MPEG-2 I get the audio, but the video is blank. I installed using the Apple installer, so all the stuff is in the correct places. 

I'm using an iMac G5, with OS X 10.4.10 and Quicktime Pro 7.4 (92). The MPEG-2 also doesn't play in MPEG Streamclip. In both cases I get the audio, but not the video. However I can play the MPEG-2 in VLC and I get both the video and audio.

Any help or where to look would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Andy


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

I can't speak to your other issues, but this one:



Andy D said:


> 2. I purchased the MPEG-2 codec from Apple for Qucktime Pro and I can't get it to work. When I try to play am MPEG-2 I get the audio, but the video is blank. I installed using the Apple installer, so all the stuff is in the correct places.


is expected. QuickTime's MPEG2 support is incomplete and can't handle the type of packaging used by these files. MPlayer and VLC can.


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## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

Dennis Wilkinson said:


> I can't speak to your other issues, but this one:
> 
> is expected. QuickTime's MPEG2 support is incomplete and can't handle the type of packaging used by these files. MPlayer and VLC can.


I can confirm that. The type of packaging used in the MPEG-2 encoding of TiVo files is "MPEG-2 Muxed," meaning video and audio chunks are mixed together in the low-level data structures called "packs," rather than given individual "packs" all to themselves. The QuickTime MPEG decoder can't handle muxed encodes. Neither can any app that leverages the QuickTime decoder, as does MPEG Streamclip.


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## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

Andy D said:


> 1. I have noticed that a file transferred from TiVo to my Mac using the TiVo Transfer that comes with Toast 9 (version 1.2.x) seems to make it so the file cannot be used with the TiVo Decoder droplet. The TiVo Decoder errors out, but when I drop a file transferred by TiVo Transfer 1.1.1 from Toast 8, there is no problem.


While you may be onto something, would you try doing the TiVo Transfer twice _on the same file_? Then see if TiVo Decoder errs with the 1.2.x transfer and succeeds with the 1.1.1 transfer.

I say this because in my experience TiVo Decoder errs on certain files, whichever version of TiVo Transfer was used.

For instance, TiVo Decoder seemingly doesn't like HD recordings from my Series3, but handles standard-definition recordings from the same TiVo fine.

Also, TiVo Decoder doesn't seem to work with very big files, but rather times out instead.


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## hearncl (Oct 16, 2006)

Andy D said:


> 1. I have noticed that a file transferred from TiVo to my Mac using the TiVo Transfer that comes with Toast 9 (version 1.2.x) seems to make it so the file cannot be used with the TiVo Decoder droplet. The TiVo Decoder errors out, but when I drop a file transferred by TiVo Transfer 1.1.1 from Toast 8, there is no problem.Andy


Be sure the title of your program doesn't contain any special characters, which can cause the TiVo Decoder droplet to give an error. For example, using Toast 9, I transferred the program "How It's Made". Dropping the "How It's Made.tivo" file on TiVo Decoder generated an error message. If I removed the apostrophe from the file name, the conversion to MPEG-2 worked. (This was the first transfer I tried with Toast 9, so I initially thought as you did, that the *.tivo file created by Toast 9 is different from that created by Toast 8.)



epstewart said:


> I say this because in my experience TiVo Decoder errs on certain files, whichever version of TiVo Transfer was used.
> 
> For instance, TiVo Decoder seemingly doesn't like HD recordings from my Series3, but handles standard-definition recordings from the same TiVo fine.
> 
> Also, TiVo Decoder doesn't seem to work with very big files, but rather times out instead.


In addition to the problem of special characters in the filename, I agree that there may be other things in a *.tivo file that cause errors in TiVo Decoder. However, using Toast 9, I transferred a HD episode of CSI:NY (approx. 8 GB) from my Series 3. It converted properly to MPEG-2 (*.mpg file) using TiVo Decoder. The MPEG-2 file plays correctly in MPEG Streamclip (with Apple plug-in), as well as in VLC.

I was able to confirm the higher resolution of converted files in Toast 9 after applying the "tivo export mode" setting, at least for the Apple TV export option. The original transferred CSI:NY file had 1920 x 1080 resolution. The converted file was 960 x 540. However, the same file exported using the MPEG-4 Player setting was only 640 x 360.


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## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

hearncl said:


> I was able to confirm the higher resolution of converted files in Toast 9 after applying the "tivo export mode" setting, at least for the Apple TV export option. The original transferred CSI:NY file had 1920 x 1080 resolution. The converted file was 960 x 540. However, the same file exported using the MPEG-4 Player setting was only 640 x 360.


My guess is that the "tivo export mode" setting of 1 in Toast 9 actually does allow greater output resolutions than if the default value (which I believe is 0) is used.

At the same time, it looks as if there are _other_ constraints on output resolution that depend on the target device, whether Apple TV, iPod, MPEG-4 Player, or whatever, and possibly on which quality option you choose.

The thinking here may be that these various devices have their idiosyncratic limits on things like video resolutions and bitrates - not to mention nerdy stuff like whether or not bidirectional B-frames are supported - so Toast must be careful not to trip over these.



hearncl said:


> ... using Toast 9, I transferred a HD episode of CSI:NY (approx. 8 GB) from my Series 3. It converted properly to MPEG-2 (*.mpg file) using TiVo Decoder. The MPEG-2 file plays correctly in MPEG Streamclip (with Apple plug-in), as well as in VLC.


That the MPEG-2 output from TiVo Decoder plays correctly in MPEG Streamclip surprises me, since it is my understanding that MPEG Streamclip uses the QuickTime MPEG decoder from Apple, which I believe will not play TiVo Decoder's output properly.

[Edit: I had the above wrong. MPEG Streamclip does seem to play the decoded output of the tivodecode converter software in TiVo Decoder all right. That same converter is in TiVo Butler, which I have just begun to use. It is in rough beta version and is a bit hard to figure out how to use, but it can transfer and decode recordings from your TiVo all right, and then you can input the decoded file into MPEG Streamclip for editing and conversion to Apple TV, iPod, etc. TiVo Butler also supposedly does the latter conversion, but it does not allow editing ... plus the one time I have tried TiVo Butler as an MPEG-4 converter, it crashed.]


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## rufusryker (Dec 3, 2006)

epstewart said:


> I can confirm that. The type of packaging used in the MPEG-2 encoding of TiVo files is "MPEG-2 Muxed," meaning video and audio chunks are mixed together in the low-level data structures called "packs," rather than given individual "packs" all to themselves. The QuickTime MPEG decoder can't handle muxed encodes. Neither can any app that leverages the QuickTime decoder, as does MPEG Streamclip.


Not in my experience. MPEG Streamclip combined with the Quicktime MPEG-2 Component CAN handle muxed encodes very well.


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

rufusryker said:


> Not in my experience. MPEG Streamclip combined with the Quicktime MPEG-2 Component CAN handle muxed encodes very well.


QuickTime MPEG can handle elementary streams and program (muxed) streams, but not transport streams. I have had issues with some muxed streams.

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/mpeg2/faq.html


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## rufusryker (Dec 3, 2006)

Dennis Wilkinson said:


> QuickTime MPEG can handle elementary streams and program (muxed) streams, but not transport streams. I have had issues with some muxed streams.
> 
> http://www.apple.com/quicktime/mpeg2/faq.html


Have you had issues with the program MPEG Streamclip specifically? This program apparently utilizes the Quicktime MPEG component for the video portion only but apparently handles the audio portion using its own methods.

I am hardly an expert on this subject, but I know that MPEG Streamclip has never given me trouble handling an MPEG-2 file that was unwrapped from a tivo file. It handles the audio portion fine and allows me to edit the file and export the file to another format.


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## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

rufusryker said:


> Not in my experience. MPEG Streamclip combined with the Quicktime MPEG-2 Component CAN handle muxed encodes very well.


Yes, thanks, I had it wrong about MPEG Streamclip combined with the Quicktime MPEG-2 Component not being able to handle MPEG-2 muxed encodes, and I have edited my original post to correct it. Again, thanks.


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

rufusryker said:


> Have you had issues with the program MPEG Streamclip specifically? This program apparently utilizes the Quicktime MPEG component for the video portion only but apparently handles the audio portion using its own methods.


Never tried MPEG Streamclip; I was speaking solely to the abilities of the MPEG-2 Components from Apple.

Based on what people are saying, it sounds as if MPEG Streamclip is doing demuxing and simply using Apple's component for video playback. Apple's component limitations lie primarily in understanding the container formats; sounds as if MPEG Streamclip handles that part itself.


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## ebaur (Mar 24, 2008)

epstewart said:


> [Edit: I had the above wrong. MPEG Streamclip does seem to play the decoded output of the tivodecode converter software in TiVo Decoder all right. That same converter is in TiVo Butler, which I have just begun to use. It is in rough beta version and is a bit hard to figure out how to use, but it can transfer and decode recordings from your TiVo all right, and then you can input the decoded file into MPEG Streamclip for editing and conversion to Apple TV, iPod, etc. TiVo Butler also supposedly does the latter conversion, but it does not allow editing ... plus the one time I have tried TiVo Butler as an MPEG-4 converter, it crashed.]


I've updated the converter (mencoder) used by TiVo Butler. The original one (which I did, in fact, lift directly from TiVo Decode Manager) could not handle files over 2.0 GB. My first attempt at building my own copy of mencoder resulted in a version that always failed.. that should be fixed now (in 1.0beta3.1).


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## Andy D (Feb 1, 2008)

hearncl said:


> Be sure the title of your program doesn't contain any special characters, which can cause the TiVo Decoder droplet to give an error. For example, using Toast 9, I transferred the program "How It's Made". Dropping the "How It's Made.tivo" file on TiVo Decoder generated an error message. If I removed the apostrophe from the file name, the conversion to MPEG-2 worked. (This was the first transfer I tried with Toast 9, so I initially thought as you did, that the *.tivo file created by Toast 9 is different from that created by Toast 8.)


Thanks, that fixed it. I should have known better, I just didn't thnk about it.

Andy


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## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

ebaur said:


> I've updated the converter (mencoder) used by TiVo Butler. The original one (which I did, in fact, lift directly from TiVo Decode Manager) could not handle files over 2.0 GB. My first attempt at building my own copy of mencoder resulted in a version that always failed.. that should be fixed now (in 1.0beta3.1).


Great, I've downloaded 1.0beta3.1 and will begin using it after the previous version wraps up the transfer/decode it is presently doing of my HD recording of this year's Super Bowl.

I'd like to go on record thanking you for and encouraging you about improving TiVo Butler, ebaur. It is much needed. I'm using it mainly for its transfer/decode functionality, not so much its conversion to Apple TV ability, since I usually want to feed the decoded file into MPEG Streamclip for editing and conversion. Also, I am using the Elgato Turbo.264 accelerator, and TiVo Butler doesn't support it. That's fine. I realize plenty of people will be perfectly delighted with Butler's non-accelerated mencoder-based exporting, so thanks for fixing it.

A feature request: would it be possible to make it so Butler can just decode an already-transfered file, without doing the transfer all over again. I have a number of files I transfered with Roxio TiVo Transfer, and I'd like to use Streamclip on them, if only Butler would do the decoding for me.

As an aside, I'm quite happy for the most part with Streamclip's capabilities, now that I have Butler to prepare the file for it. I do seem to be getting a few anomalies, though. One is that when I try exporting to "other formats" using the straight-up Apple TV format choice (_not_ the Apple TV choice specifically supporting the Turbo.264) I always seem to get a 960 x 540 output frame no matter what frame size and iTunes preset I indicate. I was trying that in order to do some timing comparisons between Turbo and non-Turbo exports. What with the unwanted frame-size scaling in the latter export, the comparisons were of dubious use.

I have sent the Squared 5 folks who publish MPEG Streamclip 3 emails requesting help about that problem and about two other questions I've had, and have yet to hear back about any of them. I'm beginning to wonder if there's really anyone there doing software support ...


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## Robbomac (Oct 21, 2006)

I have had frustrating results with MPEG Streamclip on my Tivo HD downloads. It worked perfectly with all my Series 1 files, but it (as well as QuickTime Player) doesn't like most of my decoded files from the Series 3/HD. They will play without problem in VLC (I don't use MPlayer - it is a bother to use). Of course, QuickTime Player can't handle the AC3/Dolby Digital audio that's standard on the Tivo HD files.

I had success with one standard definition program I really wanted to keep and remove commericals from, but I tried pretty much every available piece of Mac OS X decoding software to create a readable file for MPEG Streamclip - and I'm not even sure which decoding software was the one that finally worked! I was able to edit the video, convert the audio to MP2 stereo, and create a QuickTime Player compatible file. Every file I have tried since just won't display properly in MPEG Streamclip.

I know the Apple MPEG-2 component is less than robust, but I don't know whay at least one decoded file did work - is the problem not as much with the MPEG decoder as is it with the the tivodecode utility?

Most of the Mac decoders use tivodecode version 0.1.4 or earlier. I see that there is a 0.2.0 prerelease, but can't find a compiled OS X version yet.


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## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

Robbomac said:


> I have had frustrating results with MPEG Streamclip on my Tivo HD downloads. It worked perfectly with all my Series 1 files, but it (as well as QuickTime Player) doesn't like most of my decoded files from the Series 3/HD. They will play without problem in VLC (I don't use MPlayer - it is a bother to use). Of course, QuickTime Player can't handle the AC3/Dolby Digital audio that's standard on the Tivo HD files.
> 
> I had success with one standard definition program I really wanted to keep and remove commericals from, but I tried pretty much every available piece of Mac OS X decoding software to create a readable file for MPEG Streamclip - and I'm not even sure which decoding software was the one that finally worked! I was able to edit the video, convert the audio to MP2 stereo, and create a QuickTime Player compatible file. Every file I have tried since just won't display properly in MPEG Streamclip.
> 
> ...


I'm also having certain problems with MPEG Streamclip when used with .mpg export files from TiVo Butler, which uses the tivodecode software. One of them is that some files that I transfer and decode with TiVo Butler work fine in Streamclip, while others open in Streamclip with an all white image. I can't figure out exactly what the difference between the files might be.

The ones that open fine seem to have the same characteristics as the ones that don't. They are all MPEG-2 muxed files with .mpg extensions that TiVo Butler produced when asked to transfer and decode files from my TiVo Series3. They all play fine in VLC, whose advanced information panel shows the file having two streams: one video stream using 'mpgv' as the codec, and one audio stream using 'a52' as the codec. Only some of these files play correctly in QuickTime, which shows them as "MPEG2 Muxed, 640 x 480 pixels." The ones that fail to play properly in QuickTime also fail to play right in MPEG Streamclip.

Only the ones that play OK in QuickTime/MPEG Streamclip have thumbnails as Finder icons. The ones that don't play OK have generic QuickTime icons.

It may be just a coincidence, but the ones that play OK in QuickTime/Streamclip were identified in TiVo Butler as titled episodes of TV series ("House" and "Seinfeld") while the ones that don't play OK were movies from Turner Classic Movies which are not shown as having a series title in TiVo Butler. I have TiVo Butler set up to "Create sub-folders for series titles," but for programs without series titles there are no sub-folders created.

Another X-factor is that I have been fooling around with removing and restoring my Elgato Turbo.264 hardware unit and associated QuickTime software components since I first used TiVo Butler to produce the files that play OK. I didn't realize TiVo Butler makes use of the Elgato software, even when TiVo Butler is not being asked to export the file as h.264. ... or at least, looking at TiVo Butler in Activity Monitor shows the Elgato QuickTime component file and resources being in use.

I have the QuickTime MPEG-2 Playback Component installed. It is my understanding that it is not supposed to play back muxed files properly, which might account for my problem ... except, why do some of my files play OK anyway? What could be the difference between the TiVo Butler .mpg's that work in QuickTime/MPEG Streamclip and those that don't?

(BTW, one .mpg that works fine in Streamclip is high-def, and one is standard-def. The ones that don't work are both standard-def.)


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## hearncl (Oct 16, 2006)

epstewart said:


> I'm also having certain problems with MPEG Streamclip when used with .mpg export files from TiVo Butler, which uses the tivodecode software. One of them is that some files that I transfer and decode with TiVo Butler work fine in Streamclip, while others open in Streamclip with an all white image. I can't figure out exactly what the difference between the files might be....


I have had pretty much the same experience. I transferred the same standard-def program from my Series3 to computer using three methods: TiVo Butler, Toast, and the S3's built-in web page. The resulting three *.tivo files were identical. The *.tivo file was decoded to MPEG-2 using both TiVo Decode and TiVo Butler, and again the resulting *.mpg files were identical (expected since both programs use the tivodecode binary). However, the *.mpg file would not show video (but did have audio) in MPEG Streamclip, while playing properly in VLC.

Although I haven't run extensive tests, all high-def transfers I've tried have worked in Streamclip, while the ones that haven't worked are standard-def. I can also confirm that the "problem" *.mpg files have generic Quicktime icons, while the ones that work in Streamclip have picture thumbnails.

The problem *.mpg files do convert properly to other formats using programs such as Visual Hub, so the question is, how can they be edited first if not in Streamclip? Toast 9 has a video editing function. A quick trial indicated that the files can be edited this way, but Toast video editing is poorly documented and I haven't had time to follow this up.


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## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

hearncl said:


> The problem *.mpg files do convert properly to other formats using programs such as Visual Hub, so the question is, how can they be edited first if not in Streamclip? Toast 9 has a video editing function. A quick trial indicated that the files can be edited this way, but Toast video editing is poorly documented and I haven't had time to follow this up.


Toast 9's video editing capability is not nearly as accurate as MPEG Streamclip's, as far as letting you precisely place the intended edit points in the video stream. This imprecision is augmented by controls and buttons that don't work right, which is also a problem with Elgato's EyeTV editor upon which Toast's is based. I think you will find the Toast editing solution unsatisfactory as currently implemented.

Since I've been trying to use Elgato's Turbo.264 h.264-exporting accelerator gizmo, I've found that it has a bug that ruins the image in some portions of certain output files, at least when Toast is doing the exporting. The picture mysteriously turns to a "mosaic" of detail-less macroblocks for a good 10 minutes on one of my converted files, then reverts to normal. So I was trying to do the export from MPEG Streamclip instead, to see whether the mosaic problem happens there. That's when I discovered that this particular input file, when decoded by TiVo Butler, is one of those that won't play right in Streamclip or QuickTime.

Why does this stuff have to be so hard?


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## h00ligan (Nov 29, 2007)

epstewart said:


> Toast 9's video editing capability is not nearly as accurate as MPEG Streamclip's, as far as letting you precisely place the intended edit points in the video stream. This imprecision is augmented by controls and buttons that don't work right, which is also a problem with Elgato's EyeTV editor upon which Toast's is based. I think you will find the Toast editing solution unsatisfactory as currently implemented.
> 
> Since I've been trying to use Elgato's Turbo.264 h.264-exporting accelerator gizmo, I've found that it has a bug that ruins the image in some portions of certain output files, at least when Toast is doing the exporting. The picture mysteriously turns to a "mosaic" of detail-less macroblocks for a good 10 minutes on one of my converted files, then reverts to normal. So I was trying to do the export from MPEG Streamclip instead, to see whether the mosaic problem happens there. That's when I discovered that this particular input file, when decoded by TiVo Butler, is one of those that won't play right in Streamclip or QuickTime.
> 
> Why does this stuff have to be so hard?


I gave up on the turbo.264 for dvd encoding. It's sitting in my closet. I found the results to be extremely lackluster and the encoding time to be very marginally improved over my 2.4GHz led MBP.... certainly not a product i would recommend to anyone running an intel mac with a core2duo processor.. maybe even a core duo. Unfortunately the conversions of the tivo files are technically limited (at least easily) to quicktime encoding, which is brutally slow... do you know of a solution to export tivo through visualhub?

Ahh, nevermind I found it.


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## rufusryker (Dec 3, 2006)

I have not had any problems yet with MPEG Streamclip, but I've only used it for a few weeks on about 15 files (mostly high definition.)

I download the tivo files to my computer using Safari via bonjour. I then drop the file onto the application "Tivo Decoder" and wait a few minutes. The new unwrapped mpeg-2 appears right next to the original tivo file. I then drop that file onto the MPEG Streamclip icon, and it loads up without a hitch.

Not sure if this is relevant, but make sure you have the latest version of quicktime mpeg-2 component, which is "QuicktimeH264, 7.2" created on June 20th, 2007.
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/mpeg2/update/


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## Robbomac (Oct 21, 2006)

rufusryker said:


> Not sure if this is relevant, but make sure you have the latest version of quicktime mpeg-2 component, which is "QuicktimeH264, 7.2" created on June 20th, 2007.


Isn't the relevant component the QuickTimeMPEG2.component? Mine is version 6.4.1 created January 2, 2006. That is the latest one for Intel Macs, isn't it?


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## rufusryker (Dec 3, 2006)

Robbomac said:


> Isn't the relevant component the QuickTimeMPEG2.component? Mine is version 6.4.1 created January 2, 2006. That is the latest one for Intel Macs, isn't it?


No, there is a newer version -- 7.2.

Kind: Componenent (Universal)
Size: 6.2 MB on disk
Created: Wednesday, June 20, 2007
Version: QuickTimeH264, 7.2

If you paid for your component on the Apple Store website, you can download the newer version for free. Just follow the link and sign into your account.

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/mpeg2/update/


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## hearncl (Oct 16, 2006)

rufusryker said:


> No, there is a newer version -- 7.2.
> 
> Kind: Componenent (Universal)
> Size: 6.2 MB on disk
> ...


Following that link, the only download I find that I've already purchased is for version 6.4.1. And it's called QuickTimeMPEG2, not QuickTimeH264.


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## rufusryker (Dec 3, 2006)

hearncl said:


> Following that link, the only download I find that I've already purchased is for version 6.4.1. And it's called QuickTimeMPEG2, not QuickTimeH264.


Edited: I'm confused myself because I seem to have two versions floating around on my computer. However, it probably doesn't hurt to download and reinstall the component in any case.

Look in your main library, under the quicktime folder. I have a file called "AppleMPEG2Codec.component". The creation date is January 11th, 2008. The version is 1.0 (v22). I installed this component only two weeks ago (via the Apple Store) on my new MacBook Pro.

Edited Again: Now I'm even more confused:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=6360671


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## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

hearncl said:


> Following that link, the only download I find that I've already purchased is for version 6.4.1. And it's called QuickTimeMPEG2, not QuickTimeH264.


I downloaded and installed Apple's QuickTime MPEG-2 Playback component, it seems successfully because I can play (some, not all) MPEG-2 files in QuickTime. But I don't have any component by anything like that name in my /Library/QuickTime folder. I have no idea where this component actually resides after installation. Anyone know?


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## hearncl (Oct 16, 2006)

epstewart said:


> I downloaded and installed Apple's QuickTime MPEG-2 Playback component, it seems successfully because I can play (some, not all) MPEG-2 files in QuickTime. But I don't have any component by anything like that name in my /Library/QuickTime folder. I have no idea where this component actually resides after installation. Anyone know?


I went through the same search. I think you'll find it in /System/Library/QuickTime. However, at one time earlier it did install in my /Library/QuickTime folder.


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## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

hearncl said:


> I went through the same search. I think you'll find it in /System/Library/QuickTime. However, at one time earlier it did install in my /Library/QuickTime folder.


Oh, thanks, I never thought to look there!

As extra information for anyone who may be interested ... in my /System/Library/QuickTime folder there are:

ApplePixletVideo.component
QuartzComposer.component
QuickTime3GPP.component
QuickTimeComponents.component
QuickTimeFireWireDV.component
QuickTimeH264.component
QuickTimeIIDCDigitizer.component
QuickTimeImporters.component
QuickTimeMPEG.component
QuickTimeMPEG2.component (version 6.4.1, dated 1/2/06)
QuickTimeMPEG4.component
QuickTimeStreaming.component
QuickTimeUSBVDCDigitizer.component
QuickTimeVR.component

In /Library/QuickTime:

AC3MovieImport.component
AppleIntermediateCodec.component
DivX Decoder.component
DivX Encoder.component
Elgato Turbo.component
Flip4Mac WMV Advanced.component
Flip4Mac WMV Export.component
Flip4Mac WMV Import.component
Perian.component
XVIDDelegate (whose .component extension is hidden)

(Edit: another thing that was confusing me is that doing a Finder/Spotlight search on *QuickTimeMPEG* does not find the components containing that string!)


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## hearncl (Oct 16, 2006)

epstewart said:


> (Edit: another thing that was confusing me is that doing a Finder/Spotlight search on *QuickTimeMPEG* does not find the components containing that string!)


Spotlight doesn't search for things in the System folder, nor apparently for *.component files. I finally found the QuickTimeMPEG2.component file using Path Finder, which searches everything. (Still don't know why some MPEG2 files don't show the video in MPEG Streamclip.)


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## Robbomac (Oct 21, 2006)

When you search in the Finder for system components, you need to add the option "System Files" and "Include". Wish there were a way to default the search to include system files - at least the search in Leopard is possible - I never found that option in Tiger.

EasyFind is a great freeware utility - searches are even better than those in the Finder/Spotlight.


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## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

hearncl said:


> (Still don't know why some MPEG2 files don't show the video in MPEG Streamclip.)


I'm finding that some MPEG-2 files decoded from TiVo don't play with sound in QuickTime but do have video. Others lack video but do have audio. And some lucky decodes have both.

When the ones lacking sound are input to Streamclip, the sound is magically there again! These convert with sound intact. But when the ones lacking video go into Streamclip, the video is _not_ able to be restored, even by a conversion.

Isn't this all the fault mainly of the QuickTime MPEG-2 Playback Component? It apparently has been "designed" not to work reliably with "muxed" MPEG-2 files, which have audio and video information intermixed. Some MPEG-2 streams are not muxed (multiplexed) ... but those on DVD are. Perhaps Apple purposely "designed" the QT MPC not to work as a piracy aid?

Possibly Streamclip uses the QT MPC for video decoding but does audio decoding itself?


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

epstewart said:


> Isn't this all the fault mainly of the QuickTime MPEG-2 Playback Component? It apparently has been "designed" not to work reliably with "muxed" MPEG-2 files, which have audio and video information intermixed. Some MPEG-2 streams are not muxed (multiplexed) ... but those on DVD are. Perhaps Apple purposely "designed" the QT MPC not to work as a piracy aid?


The limitation as I understand it isn't "muxed files", it's transport streams (which are the most complex stream type). It can handle most program streams, which are muxed. The way that MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 are implemented in QuickTime is funky, to say the least--most QuickTime apps can't handle them well at all, at least in part because of a lack of a documented way for getting audio out of a program stream programmatically.

Given that, I'd say that Apple probably just didn't want to expend the resources to handle transport streams (given that their priority was already on MPEG-4.)


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## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

Dennis Wilkinson said:


> The limitation as I understand it isn't "muxed files", it's transport streams (which are the most complex stream type). It can handle most program streams, which are muxed.


OK, that explains why QT can play _some_ MPEG-2 muxed files just fine!



Dennis Wilkinson said:


> The way that MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 are implemented in QuickTime is funky, to say the least--most QuickTime apps can't handle them well at all, at least in part because of a lack of a documented way for getting audio out of a program stream programmatically.


Did you mean to say "transport stream" here -- i.e., is the problem of properly getting audio out of the MPEG stream related to _transport streams_ or to _program streams_ (or both)?

And, by the way, is there a program stream _inside_ each transport stream, or are they two different animals?



Dennis Wilkinson said:


> Given that, I'd say that Apple probably just didn't want to expend the resources to handle transport streams (given that their priority was already on MPEG-4.)


That sounds like the most likely explanation, now that you have clarified the situation.


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

epstewart said:


> Did you mean to say "transport stream" here -- i.e., is the problem of properly getting audio out of the MPEG stream related to _transport streams_ or to _program streams_ (or both)?


Nope, I meant program stream. Most QuickTime movies contain audio tracks and sound tracks, but any muxed MPEG-1/2 that QuickTime can play has only an "MPEG track" that claims to be both audio and video, and there are no APIs to get all the information one would need to get at the audio (although video can be readily played into a graphics buffer and extracted that way.) Note that QuickTime itself can play the audio, there's just no way to get it out independently short of writing your own demuxer.



epstewart said:


> And, by the way, is there a program stream _inside_ each transport stream, or are they two different animals?


They're different beasties. A program stream contains a single "program" (audio+video) and is designed for cases where you don't expect errors mid-stream (like files on a computer hard drive or a DVD); transport streams can contain multiple programs and have additional information for dealing with/recovering from mid-stream transmission errors. That's simplifying matters somewhat; my recollection is that Wikipedia had a reasonable discussion of the subject.


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## hearncl (Oct 16, 2006)

As pointed out, some MPEG-2 videos decoded from TiVo don't show the video in MPEG Streamclip, thus can't be edited (to remove commercials, etc.) in that program. Converting the file using Visual Hub removes that limitation. Select the MPEG tab in Visual Hub, drag in the *.mpg file, and click on Start. This will convert the file into an MPEG that can be edited in MPEG Streamclip. (This is based on limited experiments, and there may be some exceptions.) There is probably some quality loss in the conversion, but I don't think it's significant.


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## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

Dennis Wilkinson said:


> Nope, I meant program stream [not transport stream]. Most QuickTime movies contain audio tracks and sound tracks, but any muxed MPEG-1/2 that QuickTime can play has only an "MPEG track" that claims to be both audio and video, and there are no APIs to get all the information one would need to get at the audio (although video can be readily played into a graphics buffer and extracted that way.) Note that QuickTime itself can play the audio, there's just no way to get it out independently short of writing your own demuxer.


This suggests that there are (at least) two different reasons why QuickTime can have problems with (decoded) TiVo files, which are basically MPEG-2 transport streams, not MPEG-2 program streams. (Forgive me for simply repeating what you said in different words ... these are important and weighty matters in which redundancy can lead to clarity and insight.)

One reason is that the QuickTime MPEG-2 Playback Component (M2PC) does not handle MPEG-2 transport streams. This is presumably why so many TiVo files, when decoded, play back in QT, or QT-dependent applications like MPEG Streamclip, with a white "screen." (But then, why do _some_ decoded TiVo files have usable video in QT and Streamclip while others do not?)

A second reason M2PC fails is that it does not have the ability to demux the audio in MPEG-2 transport _or_ program streams. So QT exports of MPEG-2 muxed files to MPEG-4 lack audio. (Streamclip seems to be able to bypass this problem, presumably because it does not rely on QT for audio decoding.)



Dennis Wilkinson said:


> [Transport streams and programs streams are] different beasties. A program stream contains a single "program" (audio+video) and is designed for cases where you don't expect errors mid-stream (like files on a computer hard drive or a DVD); transport streams can contain multiple programs and have additional information for dealing with/recovering from mid-stream transmission errors. That's simplifying matters somewhat; my recollection is that Wikipedia had a reasonable discussion of the subject.


So the TiVo uses transport streams, not program streams ... it makes sense, since transmission errors are common in cable TV, I'm finding.


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## Robbomac (Oct 21, 2006)

VisualHub seems to do the trick for my marginally playable files - they load right up in QuickTime player after processing.

Until Apple gets its act together on a more robust QuickTimeMPEG2 component, it's well worth the $23.32 to Tyler Loch/Techspansion for a solid video conversion utility like VisualHub!


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Will VisualHub work with *series 3 & TivoHD* files? (Downloaded via the web interface & then run through tivodecode).

Also, I don't really want to 'convert' the data, in terms of change the quality of the video.. I want to just get it in some format that I can edit the recordings with.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Well, I downloaded VisualHub, and the 2 minute limit for the trial is kind of limiting of course.. But I can't figure out how to get the videos out at standard resolution. If I choose "pass video through" and "pass audio through" in the advanced page, I get the original problem -- audio with no video.

I can convert the file, but for most choices I make, it ends up narrow and tall.. nowhere near 4:3 nor 16:9. These are simply analog recordings from my Tivo series 3 or TivoHD.

On some choice, the video did seem to be the right aspect ratio, but then 'original size' was still really small (and I didn't choose one of the ipod presets).


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## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

mattack said:


> Well, I downloaded VisualHub, and the 2 minute limit for the trial is kind of limiting of course.. But I can't figure out how to get the videos out at standard resolution. If I choose "pass video through" and "pass audio through" in the advanced page, I get the original problem -- audio with no video.
> 
> I can convert the file, but for most choices I make, it ends up narrow and tall.. nowhere near 4:3 nor 16:9. These are simply analog recordings from my Tivo series 3 or TivoHD.
> 
> On some choice, the video did seem to be the right aspect ratio, but then 'original size' was still really small (and I didn't choose one of the ipod presets).


I have used VisualHub v1.31 without such problems cropping up. (There is now a v1.31a, which I don't yet have.) I don't see any "pass video through" and "pass audio through" choices in the advanced settings. Were you using a To: format I don't use? I use either To: iTunes or To: MP4, with h.264 encoding. But clicking on the other To: options, I still don't see "pass video through" and "pass audio through" in the advanced settings.

I have a TiVo Series3. VisualHub seems to work with standard definition analog recordings or high definition digital recordings that have been copied to the Mac by, say, TiVo Butler and de-encrypted by tivodecode (which TiVo Butler uses). For a standard-def .mpg input file I don't actually change the advanced settings in VisualHub, and the output .mp4 file seems to have the original frame size in pixels, the original aspect ratio, etc.

For HD files I change the advanced settings to get a 960 x 540 frame at 30 frames per second, which I believe is the maximum Apple TV can use. That seems to work fine.

I imagine you might be trying to pass through the MPEG-2 or .mpg files _as MPEG-2_. I haven't tried that. If you get stuck, I could try it and report back. But, again, I don't see the advanced options you mentioned.


----------



## hearncl (Oct 16, 2006)

mattack said:


> Well, I downloaded VisualHub, and the 2 minute limit for the trial is kind of limiting of course.. But I can't figure out how to get the videos out at standard resolution. If I choose "pass video through" and "pass audio through" in the advanced page, I get the original problem -- audio with no video.
> 
> I can convert the file, but for most choices I make, it ends up narrow and tall.. nowhere near 4:3 nor 16:9. These are simply analog recordings from my Tivo series 3 or TivoHD.
> 
> On some choice, the video did seem to be the right aspect ratio, but then 'original size' was still really small (and I didn't choose one of the ipod presets).


The recommended approach with VisualHub is not to mess with the Advanced settings (at first). I experimented with two *.mpg files, one SD and one HD, downloaded from a Series3 and decoded using tivodecode. My goal was to obtain files editable in MPEG Streamclip without changing the original video resolution.

The SD file's original resolution was 528 x 396. It would load in MPEG Streamclip but did not show the video. I converted it using the MPEG setting in VisualHub, with no parameter adjustments and using the Standard quality setting. The converted *.mpg file had a resolution of 640 x 480, which is the same aspect ratio as the original. It was editable in MPEG Streamclip, and also played with audio in QuickTime Player.

The HD file's original resolution was 1280 x 720. It was editable without conversion in Streamclip, but played with no audio in QuickTime Player. I converted it as above using VisualHub. The converted file had 1280 x 720 resolution, was editable in Streamclip, and played with audio in QuickTime Player.

I'm sure there must be some quality degradation due to the conversion in VisualHub, but I don't believe it's significant.

I have Apple's MPEG2 plugin, which is necessary to edit MPEG-2 files in Streamclip. When converting the files with VisualHub, I did not select the MPEG-2 option. I don't know whether the converted MPEG files would have played in Streamclip and QuickTime Player without the MPEG2 plugin, or not. I may experiment with this later.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

hearncl said:


> The recommended approach with VisualHub is not to mess with the Advanced settings (at first). I experimented with two *.mpg files, one SD and one HD, downloaded from a Series3 and decoded using tivodecode. My goal was to obtain files editable in MPEG Streamclip without changing the original video resolution.
> 
> The SD file's original resolution was 528 x 396. It would load in MPEG Streamclip but did not show the video. I converted it using the MPEG setting in VisualHub, with no parameter adjustments and using the Standard quality setting. The converted *.mpg file had a resolution of 640 x 480, which is the same aspect ratio as the original. It was editable in MPEG Streamclip, and also played with audio in QuickTime Player.
> 
> ...


Your goal was to do it without changing the resolution, but you admit the resolution WAS changed. (Where did you find the original and changed resolution, BTW?)

My files were *analog* recordings from my S3 or TivoHD. That may matter.

The (paraphrase) "pass video through" and "pass audio through" choices are in the combo boxes in the advanced pane.


----------



## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

mattack said:


> Your goal was to do it without changing the resolution, but you admit the resolution WAS changed. (Where did you find the original and changed resolution, BTW?)
> 
> My files were *analog* recordings from my S3 or TivoHD. That may matter.
> 
> The (paraphrase) "pass video through" and "pass audio through" choices are in the combo boxes in the advanced pane.


I have no idea what exactly you are seeing and doing when you perform your conversion in VisualHub. If you can provide precise details, I'll be happy to compare notes.

What "combo boxes" are you using in Advanced Settings?

What exactly does "pass video through" and "pass audio through" mean in your paraphrase? Again, I do not see anything in my Advanced Settings that would seem to represent a choice for just "passing through" video and audio.

Which To: choice did you select in the main VisualHub window?

If you selected To: MPEG, did you check mark MPEG-2? Did you select any particular profile, such as TiVo?

Why did you use the Advanced Settings pane at all?

Assuming we can get on the same page as far as what you mean by "passing through" video and audio, if there is such an option it might make sense that the result would have the same undesired characteristics as the input did: i.e., audio with no video. After all, that's what "pass through" means.

How exactly are you determining the frame size and aspect ratio of your output? In QuickTime? In iTunes? In MPEG Streamclip? In VisualHub itself?

I have used VisualHub to convert several standard definition analog recordings from my Series3 and not seen any shrinkage in the original size or change in the aspect ratio when I examine the output files. There is a way for you to do what you want, but you'll need to be more explicit about what you are doing before I can suggest what you may be doing wrong.


----------



## BarryCh209 (Jul 16, 2006)

regarding: Editing TiVo files with Toast 9.0.2:

Has anyone here figured out how to do this? I've looked at the FAQ from Roxio and they mention that when finished editing, click "Done". Well, I don't see a "Done". Also, I can't seem to get frame-by-frame granularity when editing. Anyone know whether it's possible with Toast 9.0.2?

Thanks,

Barry


----------



## collin (Jan 2, 2008)

BarryCh209 said:


> regarding: Editing TiVo files with Toast 9.0.2:
> 
> Has anyone here figured out how to do this? I've looked at the FAQ from Roxio and they mention that when finished editing, click "Done". Well, I don't see a "Done". Also, I can't seem to get frame-by-frame granularity when editing. Anyone know whether it's possible with Toast 9.0.2?


I have the same questions.. I looked at the documentation on El Gato's site (since there is zero docs from Roxio on this) and it seems like 1) we should be able to get frame granularity and 2) there should be a menu item in the "gears" popup that let's you process the file to remove all the marked sections but the roxio version has no such menu item.

Anybody figure this out?


----------



## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

There's no super-fine editing mode that you can edit down to the frame. You can only edit in half second chunks, from what I've been able to figure out.

Here's what I do: 
Drag files into Toast "files" section
click on "edit." A dialog box comes up with info that can be changed. Click on "edit" in that.
That brings up the Elgato player/editing interface. Once it loads (it takes 2-3 minutes), be sure the 'fine' button is pressed.
I mark all of the program segments. Once they are marked, I click on the gear and hit "invert." That will mark all of the commercial stuff to be cut. 
Here's the undocumented part, to get the changes registered by Toast:
Click on File/Save in the menu.
Click Close window, in the file menu I think.
You'll notice the time as been changed in the dialog box, usually to 22-23 minutes for a half hour program, or 43 minutes (about) for an hour program. If it is significantly less, you have your commercials marked and need to invert the timeline.
Click on okay. Then click on the big read button to start the conversion.

That series of steps, combined with the terminal command above will get you a good high resolution export of a transferred TiVo program.

This seems to do a "good enough" job for me. Barely. I would like better granularity of editing, and the buttons don't work right sometimes, or get marked right, so you have to play with the accuracy to figure out what frame to hit. And I wish there were a way to crop the video to a 4x3 when editing a pillarboxed HD program.


----------



## gear (Oct 1, 2006)

Roxio's software is so bad I gave up on Toast and installed Vista with Boot Camp to be able to do transfers with Tivo's desktop software. Even upgrading Roxio's Toast was a chore; they can't even write an upgrade that is a painless experience for the user; you have to jump through a bunch of hoops to upgrade your software. Roxio is unable to keep users informed about issues and fixes and tech support is a joke.


----------



## BarryCh209 (Jul 16, 2006)

Peter000 said:


> There's no super-fine editing mode that you can edit down to the frame. You can only edit in half second chunks, from what I've been able to figure out.
> 
> [...] That series of steps, combined with the terminal command above will get you a good high resolution export of a transferred TiVo program.


Well, those steps worked for me in terms of editing. Thanks!! Now, when I played it back I heard "strangeness". What happened was that I heard the audio from the beginning of the original file and the video of what I had cut.

I have to ask these rather obvious questions: Why is Toast so bloody difficult to use withOUT good documentation? And why is there no one on the Roxio forum who can answer the questions?


----------



## BarryCh209 (Jul 16, 2006)

gear said:


> Roxio's software is so bad I gave up on Toast and installed Vista with Boot Camp to be able to do transfers with Tivo's desktop software. Even upgrading Roxio's Toast was a chore; they can't even write an upgrade that is a painless experience for the user; you have to jump through a bunch of hoops to upgrade your software. Roxio is unable to keep users informed about issues and fixes and tech support is a joke.


I had been on a PC and found VideoREDO to be superb!!! VERY easy to use and install. But, alas, I'm on a Mac now and it seems that Toast is the only game in town. Heck....if I knew how to write my own code for editing, I'd do it.

And I wouldn't mind using Toast to pull down the file from TiVo (I know I can use the IP address of the TiVo box), if I could satisfactorily edit with Toast and then import it into, say, iMovie for finer editing granularity. But iMovie doesn't like Toast files. ;-(

<sigh>


----------



## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

BarryCh209 said:


> I had been on a PC and found VideoREDO to be superb!!! VERY easy to use and install. But, alas, I'm on a Mac now and it seems that Toast is the only game in town. Heck....if I knew how to write my own code for editing, I'd do it.


I have had the same problems with editing in Roxio Toast, so I switched to using VideoReDo on my MacBook Pro, using Parallels Desktop for Mac to run VideoReDo in Windows XP.

See Using VideoReDo on TiVo Files.

See also Using Parallels Desktop for TiVo-to-Apple-TV Transfers.

And there are other posts I've made to the same blog about related TiVoToGo matters. You can get to them via links in the posts mentioned above.

VideoReDo gives you perfect control over granularity of edits. It is easy to use (after a bit of a learning curve) and its controls work as they should. You can use it to quick-fix videos that have messed up time codes and audio-video synchronization issues. You can output edited files (as I do) to the Mac environment, since Parallels allows that. Specifically, I output to an AirPort disk which is recognized in Windows by virtue of installing AirPort for Windows. Then I use VisualHub to convert the videos for my Apple TV.

The only major drawback I've found to using TiVo Desktop Plus (for TiVo transfers) and VideoReDo TV Suite (for decrypting/editing) in Parallels/Windows and then using VisualHub in Mac OS X for the final conversion is that it's a lengthy, 3-stage process. It would be nice if it could do what Roxio Toast is meant to do: one-stop shopping for both editing and export/conversion.


----------



## BarryCh209 (Jul 16, 2006)

epstewart said:


> I have had the same problems with editing in Roxio Toast, so I switched to using VideoReDo on my MacBook Pro, using Parallels Desktop for Mac to run VideoReDo in Windows XP.


But videoredo doesn't work on Mac OS-X sadly.


----------



## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

BarryCh209 said:


> But videoredo doesn't work on Mac OS-X sadly.


True, but it does run in Windows XP, installed in Parallels Desktop for Mac, which in turn runs in Mac OS X. You don't have to reboot the Mac to run Windows in Parallels, as you do if you want to run Windows in Boot Camp. You just launch Parallels as a Mac application and then start the Windows "virtual machine" in Parallels. See the links in my previous post to my blog entries on how to do it.

You can even use Parallels in Coherence mode, such that each application window in Windows XP becomes an individual window on the Mac screen. The Windows desktop disappears. You can switch between Windows and Mac applications with a single click. Sweet!

If you have an Intel-based Mac, you may find that the cost of buying Parallels and Windows XP is worth it to you, since it gives you access to VideoReDo (and other Windows software). Admittedly, it's a lot of extra bucks to spend to get the Windows XP OS and the other extra software, but it does give you the editing flexibility you seek for your TiVo recordings.


----------



## BarryCh209 (Jul 16, 2006)

epstewart said:


> True, but it does run in Windows XP, installed in Parallels Desktop for Mac, which in turn runs in Mac OS X.


Yup... I'm now seeing something new (O, Joy!).

I'm using VMWare Fusion as software on my Mac. It emulates the PC well and VideoREDO works fine there. When I play a VideoREDO-edited file (which originally was a TiVo file) on the PC, it plays just fine. When i move it to my Mac, QuickTime opens up but the file doesn't play. Now, I do have installed the mpeg-2 added component.

How should I set VideoREDO up so that when I move the file from the Virtual PC to the Mac, it will play? What encoding does TiVo use for files? (It can't be "simple" mpeg-2 because QuickTime should play that!).

Thanks,

Barry


----------



## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

BarryCh209 said:


> Yup... I'm now seeing something new (O, Joy!).
> 
> I'm using VMWare Fusion as software on my Mac. It emulates the PC well and VideoREDO works fine there. When I play a VideoREDO-edited file (which originally was a TiVo file) on the PC, it plays just fine. When i move it to my Mac, QuickTime opens up but the file doesn't play. Now, I do have installed the mpeg-2 added component.
> 
> ...


OK, you've run into the unfortunate fact that QuickTime can't play the output of VideoReDo, even with the QuickTime MPEG-2 Playback Component installed on the Mac.

It's not VideoReDo's fault. The fault lies with QuickTime, which (even with the QuickTime MPEG-2 Playback Component) cannot handle the "muxed" MPEG-2 encoding of the TiVo file. ("Muxed" refers to how the audio and video information is combined, or "multiplexed," in one file.)

The TiVo file that gets copied to your computer from your TiVo box is muxed MPEG-2. It's also encrypted, but the TiVo Desktop software decrypts it (or allows VideoReDo to decrypt it, I'm not sure which). When VideoReDo outputs it (with or without edits) it remains muxed MPEG-2. QuickTime can't handle it. You see a blank "screen," and/or you hear no audio.

Sadly, even 3rd-party Mac software such as MPEG Streamclip can't deal with muxed MPEG-2, because MPEG Streamclip relies on QuickTime to decode the file!

But VisualHub doesn't! Try converting the unplayable file with VisualHub into ... well, if you want, an MPEG-2 file. The result will be playable by QuickTime, because it's no longer muxed in the same way. Or you can convert it into some other format, such as Apple TV.


----------



## BarryCh209 (Jul 16, 2006)

epstewart said:


> The fault lies with QuickTime, which (even with the QuickTime MPEG-2 Playback Component) cannot handle the "muxed" MPEG-2 encoding of the TiVo file.


Yup... I agree.... especially since the apple.com page on this MPEG-2 component specifically mentions that it should handle muxed mpeg-2. Now the question is how to get an Apple support person to believe me. 

Thanks for your help!! I appreciate it very much.

Barry

PS: VisualHub is AMAZING!!!! It's SO easy to use and does a great job. I wish ALL software were this easy!!


----------



## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

BarryCh209 said:


> Yup... I agree.... especially since the apple.com page on this MPEG-2 component specifically mentions that it should handle muxed mpeg-2.


There are apparently multiple flavors of "MPEG-2 muxed," and QuickTime (with the MPEG-2 Playback Component) does work with at least one of them, I've found. It just doesn't work with those derived from TiVo recordings.



BarryCh209 said:


> Now the question is how to get an Apple support person to believe me.


I'm of the opinion that Apple knows about the lack of QT support for some MPEG-2 muxed files and doesn't really care. Probably it's because fixing it would just make it that much easier for folks to get h.264 content from other than the iTunes Store.



BarryCh209 said:


> Thanks for your help!! I appreciate it very much.


You're very welcome!



BarryCh209 said:


> VisualHub is AMAZING!!!! It's SO easy to use and does a great job. I wish ALL software were this easy!!


Me, too!


----------



## jtkohl (Feb 7, 2004)

epstewart said:


> But VisualHub doesn't! Try converting the unplayable file with VisualHub into ... well, if you want, an MPEG-2 file. The result will be playable by QuickTime, because it's no longer muxed in the same way. Or you can convert it into some other format, such as Apple TV.


Do you have a recipe for converting the multiplex style to another MPEG-2 format without transcoding (i.e. something very quick, speed similar to unwrapping encryption with tivodecode)? Maybe for VLC or ffmpeg or ffmpegX?


----------



## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

jtkohl said:


> Do you have a recipe for converting the multiplex style to another MPEG-2 format without transcoding (i.e. something very quick, speed similar to unwrapping encryption with tivodecode)? Maybe for VLC or ffmpeg or ffmpegX?


No, sorry, I don't know any fast way to change the multiplex method without transcoding. I may be wrong about this, but my guess is that the only way to get the file multiplexed in a way that QuickTime can use it is in effect to transcode it from MPEG-2 to MPEG-2.

For what it's worth, FFmpeg (which VisualHub uses unless you tell it to use QuickTime or VLC) has an option *-vcodec copy* that passes through the original video track unchanged, and also has *-acodec copy* to pass through the original audio track unchanged. I haven't tried them, but I suppose there might be a chance that using them could do what you want. You could try putting them in the Extra FFmpeg Flags fields in the VisualHub Advanced Settings window when creating MPEG-2 output from MPEG-2 input. If you are very lucky, you might end up with a file QuickTime could use.

I haven't tried it though.


----------



## jtkohl (Feb 7, 2004)

No luck so far just extracting video, but I have noticed that some TiVo extracted files play fine in mpeg streamclip--these show as NTSC 29.97 fps.
Others don't work are showing as NTSC film rate (23.976 fps). But Toast Titanium recognizes them as 29.97 fps, as does VLC (which can play them).

Hmm, suggests that we need to patch the frame rate metadata?


----------



## NA9D (May 26, 2008)

epstewart said:


> The conversion and the export are basically one and the same.
> 
> When you hit the big red button in Toast's "Convert: Video Files" pane, and then you you deal with the drop-down dialog in which you choose a device, quality, and save-to location, the conversion _and_ the export both begin.


I don't think so. I just purchased Toast 9. There's the Tivo Transfer application which downloads the .tivo files from the Tivo. They are sitting on my hard drive. I then can manually convert them in Toast or set up Tivo Transfer to do the conversion automatically. So there are two independent steps using two independent programs.

I don't like being limited in resolution, but my main reason is to convert video for use on my iPod. Since the iPod has very limited resolution, it's not that big of a deal.

I can play the files on my Mac using Toast Video Player in the full HD resolution if I want. Toast Video Player is buried in the Resources folder of the Toast application package.

Now, why Tivo limits the resolution is beyond me. ATV and iPods have limited resolution capabilities anyhow. And while I have to use their software to view the view on my Mac, I still can view it and copy it to any other Mac that has the software.

What I'd really like to do is to convert stuff to regular MPEG-2 so I can view them on my other DVR's which are all Replays...

I'm going to try Visual Hub for that...


----------



## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

NA9D said:


> Now, why Tivo limits the resolution is beyond me. ATV and iPods have limited resolution capabilities anyhow.


ATV has a "limited" resolution, but it's pretty good, up to 720p. And there are Terminal commands that will let you overcome the crippled resolution. If not for that, the program would be totally crippled for me. The whole reason for me to transfer it is to enjoy it at the highest res possible on my AppleTV. I hardly ever watch anything on my iPod.


----------



## NA9D (May 26, 2008)

Peter000 said:


> ATV has a "limited" resolution, but it's pretty good, up to 720p. And there are Terminal commands that will let you overcome the crippled resolution. If not for that, the program would be totally crippled for me. The whole reason for me to transfer it is to enjoy it at the highest res possible on my AppleTV. I hardly ever watch anything on my iPod.


I can understand that. For me I guess it's not such a big deal since my Tivo and ATV are hooked to the same display.


----------



## NA9D (May 26, 2008)

ebaur said:


> I've updated the converter (mencoder) used by TiVo Butler. The original one (which I did, in fact, lift directly from TiVo Decode Manager) could not handle files over 2.0 GB. My first attempt at building my own copy of mencoder resulted in a version that always failed.. that should be fixed now (in 1.0beta3.1).


But how do you actually start the transfer process. I can see the shows, add them to the queue but nothing happens. Everything shows up in queue history and nothing transfers...


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

epstewart said:


> For what it's worth, FFmpeg (which VisualHub uses unless you tell it to use QuickTime or VLC) has an option *-vcodec copy* that passes through the original video track unchanged, and also has *-acodec copy* to pass through the original audio track unchanged. I haven't tried them, but I suppose there might be a chance that using them could do what you want. You could try putting them in the Extra FFmpeg Flags fields in the VisualHub Advanced Settings window when creating MPEG-2 output from MPEG-2 input. If you are very lucky, you might end up with a file QuickTime could use.


I *believe* I tried this when I first started trying to download Tivo files (via the web interface). They just ended up unloadable (in qt player), seemed the same as original.

I am/was able to play the recordings in one of the Mac third party players.. Just nothing that could edit them.

Could you write up a bug at bugreport.apple.com with the specifics of the MPEG 2 info you have? If you have more detail about the specific muxed MPEG-2, that would be great. You only need a free online account to write up bugs. I could write one up, but you sound like you know more about the technical details.


----------



## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

mattack said:


> Could you write up a bug at bugreport.apple.com with the specifics of the MPEG 2 info you have? If you have more detail about the specific muxed MPEG-2, that would be great. You only need a free online account to write up bugs. I could write one up, but you sound like you know more about the technical details.


mattack,

If you are talking to me and not another poster, I am at a loss to explain why some MPEG-2 muxed files play OK in QuickTime and others don't. I have heard of software called MediaInfo Mac which might help in trying to figure out what the differences might be. Anyone know about it?

If I could give Apple something specific to go on, I would gladly write up a bug report at bugreport.apple.com, as you request.

But in my heart of hearts I don't believe this is a bug, but an omission by design. Apple doesn't really care whether we can play MPEG-2 files from TiVo DVRs. Apple wants us to buy or rent MPEG-4 h.264 files from the iTunes Store.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Well, I suspect that there could be other sources for MPEG-2 muxed files, it's just that Tivo ones are the most common.

I've never heard of mediainfo Mac, but this is a link to it
http://massanti.com/mediainfo/


----------



## jtkohl (Feb 7, 2004)

On my system, most of the OTA recordings from my S3 work fine in QuickTime.
It's the cable-only channels that seem to have an oddity in the MPEG video stream.

VLC has no trouble playing the cable recordings, though, and I can use it to transcode the files into usable MPEGs.

```
% cat ~/bin/generic4x3tompg720x480.VLC 
#!/bin/sh -x
moviepath=$1
moviebase=`basename "${moviepath}"| sed -e s:.[^.]*$::`
time /Applications/VLC.app/Contents/MacOS/clivlc "$moviepath" -I dummy --sout \#transcode\{vcodec=mp2v,vb=4096,width=720,height=480,aspectratio=4x3,deinterlace,acodec=mpga,ab=128,channels=2,threads=2\}:standard\{access=file,mux=ps,dst="$moviebase.720x480.mpg"\} vlc:quit
```


----------



## NA9D (May 26, 2008)

I posted this in the help forum but haven't seen much response so I'll try here.

I downloaded TivoButler and it looks real nice but how in the Sam Hill do I start the actual download process? Everything I add to the work queue goes into the queue history and nothing happens. I tried contacting the developer via the e-mail address on his site and I've gotten no response.


----------



## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

NA9D said:


> I posted this in the help forum but haven't seen much response so I'll try here.
> 
> I downloaded TivoButler and it looks real nice but how in the Sam Hill do I start the actual download process? Everything I add to the work queue goes into the queue history and nothing happens. I tried contacting the developer via the e-mail address on his site and I've gotten no response.


Make sure you have your destination folder set up right in Preferences: Downloading.

Click on the Work Queue icon to open its window.

Select a program and click Add Selection.


----------



## NA9D (May 26, 2008)

epstewart said:


> Make sure you have your destination folder set up right in Preferences: Downloading.
> 
> Click on the Work Queue icon to open its window.
> 
> Select a program and click Add Selection.


I realized I didn't do:

```
/Volumes/DriveName/DownloadFolder
```
But instead did:

```
DriveName/DownloadFolder
```
in the path. I just figured that out.

But you also need to start and restart TivoButler after changing the prefs as well in order for them to be recognized. I finally have a download running! YAY!


----------



## NA9D (May 26, 2008)

epstewart said:


> Make sure you have your destination folder set up right in Preferences: Downloading.
> 
> Click on the Work Queue icon to open its window.
> 
> Select a program and click Add Selection.


OK, so now TivoButler is downloading the shows and converting them to standard MPEGs. But the mencoder package is crashing whenever it tries to convert the files to MP4s. Have I got something set wrong? I've got a 2.66 GHz quad core MacPro with 3 Gig of RAM and plenty of drive space...It's not a huge deal as I can convert with Visual Hub but it would be nice to do it all in one step...


----------



## gear (Oct 1, 2006)

NA9D said:


> it would be nice to do it all in one step...


Anyone who has ever migrated a show from a Tivo to their computer or ripped a movie from a DVD or moved one of those shows to a portable device or compressed the file has thought the same thing.

Everyone is doing it; why does it have to be so much trouble?


----------



## NA9D (May 26, 2008)

gear said:


> Anyone who has ever migrated a show from a Tivo to their computer or ripped a movie from a DVD or moved one of those shows to a portable device or compressed the file has thought the same thing.
> 
> Everyone is doing it; why does it have to be so much trouble?


But that doesn't answer my question. 

*Why is mencoder crashing?*


----------



## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

NA9D said:


> But that doesn't answer my question.
> 
> *Why is mencoder crashing?*


MEncoder has issues. Try to contact Eric Baur at [email protected] to learn more. Also, try putting -mc 0 and -noskip in as options under Preferences: Converting. Also, make sure you have the latest version of TiVo Butler. Ask Eric for the latest beta version.


----------



## NA9D (May 26, 2008)

epstewart said:


> MEncoder has issues. Try to contact Eric Baur at [email protected] to learn more. Also, try putting -mc 0 and -noskip in as options under Preferences: Converting. Also, make sure you have the latest version of TiVo Butler. Ask Eric for the latest beta version.


OK. Great. Thanks, I appreciate it.

So far TivoButler looks to be a great program now that I have it running...


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## db_white (Jul 3, 2008)

Thanks for the "tivo export mode" tip!

Used Tivo Transfer to transfer SD and HD from a Series 3 Tivo to an iMac, then "Reveal in Finder". Dragged the files to the "Convert" "Video Files" tab in Toast 9.0.2 -

SD came over as MPEG-2, 480x480. Using the little gear widget at the bottom, I could output for AppleTv at 853x480 MPEG-4 or for H.264 at 480x360.

HD came over as MPEG-2, 1920x1080. Output for AppleTv was 960x540 , H.264 stayed 1920x1080. There's a faint green line (1 pixel?) on the left of the screen when played back via QuickTime or iTunes, so the conversion isn't perfect. Don't know how obnoxious it's going to be...

Would have preferred to stream directly from the Tivo to something like an AppleTv, but it looks like there's hope to be able to record once and watch on two different sets.

Thanks again!


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## PAP (Oct 6, 1999)

Do I understand that folks are able to get high def content off of a series 3 tivo and onto an apple TV? I'm coming from SD DirectTivo and have no such ability.

I do put all my DVD content on my apple TV system but have no ability for bluray content thus far <GRRRR> - can I get HD movies onto ATV using the Tivo as an intermediary??


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## NA9D (May 26, 2008)

PAP said:


> Do I understand that folks are able to get high def content off of a series 3 tivo and onto an apple TV? I'm coming from SD DirectTivo and have no such ability.
> 
> I do put all my DVD content on my apple TV system but have no ability for bluray content thus far <GRRRR> - can I get HD movies onto ATV using the Tivo as an intermediary??


You can download HD content from an S3 or THD and convert it to run in HD on ATV. But you can't do it with Toast alone. Toast limits the quality of a TiVo file. You need to use a program to strip off the TiVo wrapper like TivoButler and then you can use Toast to covert the resulting MPEG-2 file.


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## FiosUser (Nov 16, 2007)

epstewart said:


> ...
> 
> *defaults write com.roxio.Toast "tivo export mode" -integer 1*
> 
> ...


I am attempting to transfer Tivo shows to my Mac with Toast 9 and then burn the shows to DVDs.

I'm having trouble with the video quality on the resulting DVD (which is very pixelated and low-quality-looking). I'm assuming this is what happens when the resolution on the DVD is too low.

I tried running the command quoted above, but it seemed to not work. Perhaps I did it wrong?

Here is what I did:

1. Closed Toast 9
2. Opened Terminal
3. Pasted in the command above and then pressed enter
4. Opened Toast 9 and burned the DVD (I chose the "Best" option in the video quality slider)
5. Result: Same quality problem as before

Did I do something wrong? I know most of this discussion is just about creating other types of output, but has anyone been able to create a good looking DVD from a Tivo tansfer?

Thanks in advance for any insight.


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## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

FiosUser said:


> I am attempting to transfer Tivo shows to my Mac with Toast 9 and then burn the shows to DVDs.
> 
> I'm having trouble with the video quality on the resulting DVD (which is very pixelated and low-quality-looking). I'm assuming this is what happens when the resolution on the DVD is too low.
> 
> ...


I'm the one who posted about the

*defaults write com.roxio.Toast "tivo export mode" -integer 1*

still working to some extent in Toast 9. I have no reason to believe it affects anything but video exports from Toast, for instance, when creating a file playable on Apple TV.

I've never tried to burn a .TiVo file to DVD using Toast, so I'm not sure I can help you. But I may be able to suggest some ways to look for a solution to your problem.

First of all, I suggest you try not creating a DVD but using Save As Disc Image under Video: DVD Video in Toast. That saves wasting a DVD. Then quit Toast. Double click the .toast file that was created. Toast opens again and at the same time an actual optical disc icon appears on the Desktop. Double click this icon to open it, and drag its VIDEO_TS file [EDIT: oops, VIDEO_TS folder] to the DVD Player icon in your Dock. The "disc" opens in DVD Player just like an actual DVD would. Then you see a simple DVD menu with your movie as a clickable button. Click it to play the movie.

When I do this using "Best" video quality in Toast, I see what I consider to be good video resolution from a standard-definition TiVo recording. Get Disc Info in DVD Player shows a 704x480 image, which is typical DVD quality. The original recording on the TiVo has lower resolution than that, owing to being standard-def NTSC. But my pseudo-DVD has all the actual resolution present in the original recording.

Yet I see a small number of digital compression artifacts that I don't think were in the original recording, particularly when scene elements are in motion. This I imagine is probably what you are calling "pixelated."

In my humble opinion, these are the probably-unavoidable results that one has to expect when re-compressing a once-compressed and then un-compressed (by Toast) MPEG video stream. Toast is probably decoding the original video stream and then recoding it. When that happens, there is bound to be a lowering of quality.

You might think Toast would be smart enough to just take the MPEG-2 video stream which is in the original TiVo file and transfer it to the DVD as is (after decrypting it). But, no, perhaps it doesn't. Smarter people than I can probably tell you why that would be a bad idea.

I see exactly the same amount and kind of degradation when I export the same file for Apple TV. There, re-compression is required, into the MPEG-4/h.264 codec.

You may want to see if you can capture a still frame that has the "pixelated" look of which you complain and post it, BTW. If you are seeing something besides the relatively minor degradation I'm talking about, then, as they say ... never mind!

I hope this helps.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

epstewart said:


> You might think Toast would be smart enough to just take the MPEG-2 video stream which is in the original TiVo file and transfer it to the DVD as is (after decrypting it). But, no, perhaps it doesn't. Smarter people than I can probably tell you why that would be a bad idea.


Because DVDs have different limitations to the MPEG 2 resolutions and probably bit rates. It's not like it supports all MPEG 2 formats.

That's why for example the bitrates were changed on the Tivo/DVD recorders, and part of why you can't transfer recordings from other Tivos and burn to DVD.


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## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

mattack said:


> Because DVDs have different limitations to the MPEG 2 resolutions and probably bit rates. It's not like it supports all MPEG 2 formats.
> 
> That's why for example the bitrates were changed on the Tivo/DVD recorders, and part of why you can't transfer recordings from other Tivos and burn to DVD.


That makes sense.

I'd like to add to my earlier response to the question by FiosUser that my Toast 9 export of a standard-definition TiVo file for use with Apple TV and my Toast 9 conversion of the same file to a VIDEO_TS folder for burning to a DVD produced versions that to my eye are visually indistinguishable, when played in QuickTime Player and DVD Player, respectively. They have the same nominal 704 x 480 resolution. If played on an HDTV there might be some visible difference, I don't know, but I doubt it would be huge.


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## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

Inasmuch as it has recently been asked about once again, there is in Toast 9 something similar to the ability in Toast 8 to overcome some of the inbuilt restrictions on resolutions supported during video conversions of TiVo recordings. It involves setting "tivo export mode" in Toast's preferences to a value of 1. You can do it in Terminal by entering:

*defaults write com.roxio.Toast "tivo export mode" -integer 1*

You can check it (or change it manually) in Property List Editor. In Finder, navigate to ~/Library/Preferences/com.roxio.Toast.plist and double click it to open it in Property List Editor. In the window that appears, click on the flippy triangle next to "Root" to see all the preferences/properties. Scroll down to find "tivo export mode." It should be of class "number" and should be set to 1. If it has a different value, double click on it to edit it.


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## FiosUser (Nov 16, 2007)

Thanks for your replies (epstewart and mattack).

I will try out the suggestion of burning a disc image and using that VIDEO_TS folder.

However, my end result is to get the Tivo show onto a DVD so I can play it in a DVD player (not one on a computer).

To explain my problem further, the "pixelating" to which I am referring is similar to what happens when you show a little video from a digital camera on a large HDTV--it doesn't look good and you can tell it is all pixel-looking (you know, squares all over the place instead of nice smooth lines). Another way to put it is if on a windows or mac computer you set an image as the background of your desktop that is a really small image, but set it to "stretch" the entire desktop--you see a bad image that is all pixelated because it is not originally large enough to fill that much space.

Anyway, I was able to burn a VIDEO_TS folder in Toast 7 before so I'm pretty sure I will be able to in Toast 9...I'll try that way to see if the resolution is any better (this might be a trick to get around Toast limiting the resolution--sort of how you get around iTunes putting the DRM on the songs you buy--you just burn the songs to a CD and then re-import them again).

Lastly, thanks for showing the way to check the value in the properties editor. I will go there to see if I actually ran the command correctly.


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## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

FiosUser said:


> Thanks for your replies (epstewart and mattack).
> 
> I will try out the suggestion of burning a disc image and using that VIDEO_TS folder.
> 
> ...


Actually, I didn't mean to make a VIDEO_TS folder to burn it ... just to make a VIDEO_TS instead of burning an actual disc while you're figuring out the problem. I don't think making an intermediate VIDEO_TS will solve the problem itself, just save wasting a DVD-R.

I am concerned that you are seeing "squares all over the place instead of nice smooth lines." I don't see "squares" (actually, "blocks" and "macroblocks") when I use Toast 9 the way you are using it. I think there is some X-factor giving you problems here.

If I'm right, this is not, strictly speaking, a "resolution" problem. Visible macroblocks are typically the result of too low a bitrate, not too little resolution.

Every MPEG-2 or MPEG-4 video file is digitally compressed using an algorithm that divides the image into square macroblocks, and within them square blocks, and then provides for each of these blocks a set of numbers that, when cranked into a mathematical formula, supposedly reconstitutes the original pixels. It does so with a certain lack of precision, though. How much imprecision depends on the maximum bitrate in thousands of bits per second (kbps) allowed by the encoder (in this case, Toast) for the output video stream. If the target bitrate is too small, too much internal picture detail is squeezed out of each block, and the blocks themselves become visible to the viewer's eyes.

This situation is somewhat complicated by the fact that luminance (black and white) and chrominance (color) blocks/macroblocks are handled separately by the encoder.

Try this: Get a copy of the VLC Media Player at http://www.videolan.org/vlc/. You can use it instead of DVD Player to play either a DVD which Toast has created for you, or a VIDEO_TS folder which Toast has made. Play one of your problematic output files in VLC. While it is playing, open the Information window (command-I) and click on the Statistics tab. Look at the Stream bitrate. I believe this is the bitrate of the input stream as a whole, including both video and audio. But the audio stream bitrate is usually a negligible part of it: 128 kbps or so. The rest is the video bitrate. If it isn't roughly (say) 2500 kbps at a bare minimum, it's probably too small.

Try the same thing with a commercial DVD, and you'll see the Stream bitrate fluctuates greatly on a second-by-second basis. That's normal. The MPEG encoder uses fewer bits when the scene is static and unchanging than when there is a lot of change from frame to frame. The key thing is that the bitrate never gets below a fairly high number.

For an MPEG-2 file the bitrate needs to be higher than for an MPEG-4 file, which is why MPEG-4 files are used for iTunes movies, etc. But you're trying to make standard MPEG-2 DVDs, so you have to use higher bitrates.

As for why Toast may not be giving you the bitrates you need (though my version of Toast gives me adequate bitrates), I have no clue. It might behoove you to remove Toast 9 completely, including its preferences file, and reinstall it. Set "tivo export mode" to 1 again, and try making a DVD. Maybe you'll get better results.


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## FiosUser (Nov 16, 2007)

I verified with the property editor application that the Tivo expert mode was set to 1.

Then, I transferred a Tivo show opened Toast 9, and saved the Tivo show as a disc image using the 'best' quality.

Then, I burned the disc image to a DVD.

Somehow this seems to have made the DVD into a better quality video than the way I previously just burned straight to DVD (bypassing the disc image step).

I'll try out a few others to make sure it is not a fluke.

It is not the same quality as I get to see from Tivo (nor from using my home DVD recorder and recording the show as I watch the show on Tivo), but it seems it is pretty close.

I'm puzzled as to why the DVD recorder can produce a better quality--but it does probably have something to do with the way the Tivo show is compressed, uncompressed, and then recompressed again (or something like that).


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## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

FiosUser said:


> I verified with the property editor application that the Tivo expert mode was set to 1.
> 
> Then, I transferred a Tivo show opened Toast 9, and saved the Tivo show as a disc image using the 'best' quality.
> 
> ...


I'm glad you have found a way that gives you semi-acceptable results from Toast. If it is "pretty close" to that of a home DVD recorder, I assume you are no longer seeing as much macroblocking as before. And, yes, I believe any reduction in quality that you still see probably stems from the need to uncompress and recompress the video.

As a suggestion, you might want to bypass Toast entirely and try using VisualHub to author the DVD instead. You can use TiVo Butler to transfer and decode the file, which then becomes input to VisualHub.


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## FiosUser (Nov 16, 2007)

epstewart said:


> I'm glad you have found a way that gives you semi-acceptable results from Toast. If it is "pretty close" to that of a home DVD recorder, I assume you are no longer seeing as much macroblocking as before. And, yes, I believe any reduction in quality that you still see probably stems from the need to uncompress and recompress the video.
> 
> As a suggestion, you might want to bypass Toast entirely and try using VisualHub to author the DVD instead. You can use TiVo Butler to transfer and decode the file, which then becomes input to VisualHub.


Well, seems like I lied (good thing I used the word, "seems" in my previous post). Apparently I only get decent DVDs when the original Tivo recording was in HD. The standard definition resulting DVDs are horrible just like before.

So, next I will try your suggestion of VisualHub and TivoButler.


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## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

FiosUser said:


> Well, seems like I lied (good thing I used the word, "seems" in my previous post). Apparently I only get decent DVDs when the original Tivo recording was in HD. The standard definition resulting DVDs are horrible just like before.
> 
> So, next I will try your suggestion of VisualHub and TivoButler.


OK, it at least makes sense that the quality is identical when you make a DVD directly from Toast and when you have Toast make a VIDEO_TS and then burn that to a DVD. It ought to be the same, and it is.

I'll be interested to see if VisualHub gives you better results. You'll be using TiVo Butler just to transfer and decrypt the original recordings. If for any reason it gives you problems you can transfer files using your browser (see this blog post of mine). That method unfortunately doesn't decrypt the files, so you have to do that separately. If TiVo Butler isn't working for you, try tivodecode, an AppleScript droplet available here (documented here).


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## kas25 (Mar 10, 2003)

epstewart said:


> Hi, I'd like to go back to the original question of the thread, quoted above, which basically was whether or not there is a way in Toast 9 to get better video resolution in exported files than the nominally permitted 480 x 360. As hearncl said, there was a way to get Toast 8 to do that, but it seems to have vanished in Toast 9.
> 
> In my experience with Toast 9, the output resolution for standard-def fare recorded from Comcast's analog Turner Classic Movies channel on my Series3 TiVo and exported by Toast for Apple TV (Automatic) is actually 640 x 480 pixels, which is seemingly not downrezzed at all (!).
> 
> ...


I am also interested but also I'd like to know if the new version, Creator 2009, will allow higher resolution.


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## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

kas25 said:


> I am also interested but also I'd like to know if the new version, Creator 2009, will allow higher resolution.


This looks like a possibility! I found out about Creator 2009 only after reading your post. Looking at its features at the Roxio web site, I note that it will "easily convert video, audio and now photos to your preferred formats right from your desktop, and send to portable devices." It will also "trim and cut video clips," which is great for editing out commercials.

It also makes various video sources into standard DVDs and even Blu-ray discs.

I don't see anything, however, about direct support for TiVoToGo. If Creator 2009 did support it in the way that Toast does, using TiVo Transfer etc., the built-in restrictions on output resolution might still apply!

But even if that is so, it looks as if Creator 2009 might accept as input an MPEG file that has already been decrypted from a TiVo file, using another method to do the decryption. But if that "muxed" MPEG file is not playable in QuickTime, as so many of them aren't, it might not work in Creator 2009, either.

Creator 2009 costs $79.99 after a $20 mail-in rebate. Is anyone out there willing to get it and see how it works for TiVoToGo? If so, would you report back here?


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## FiosUser (Nov 16, 2007)

Here is my update:

I tried VisualHub, but it didn't work. The files it created were not playable and it did not burn a DVD. I followed the instructions correctly so either the app version I got is bad or some other unknown reason caused this.

When I went back to the VisualHub web site for support, it said VisualHub was no longer supported or being developed!

So, it looks like we are still not able to transfer shows from Tivo and burn a full quality DVD (unless Creator 2009 does). 

I am not yet ready to purchase Creator 2009--so I'll have to wait for someone else to be the guinea pig on this one (sorry).


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## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

FiosUser said:


> Here is my update:
> 
> I tried VisualHub, but it didn't work. The files it created were not playable and it did not burn a DVD. I followed the instructions correctly so either the app version I got is bad or some other unknown reason caused this.
> 
> ...


Sorry you are having such trouble getting acceptable quality on a standard DVD that has been based on a standard-def TiVo recording.

Would you consider posting a screen shot of a still frame from one of the DVDs or VIDEO_TS files you have made that exhibit the pixellation? I believe you can use Grab or Snapz Pro X to get one. I would be interested in seeing how bad the problem is.

Yes, sadly, the developer of VisualHub has dropped support. That's too bad, because I have found VisualHub very useful. But I'm not surprised ... I long ago discovered he was not responding to e-mails with technical questions.

Also, what is your reason for needing the destination format to be a DVD? I am having good success with making MPEG-4/h.264 files that play on a Mac, an iPod, or an Apple TV. Here is an image from On Golden Pond:










I chose it because it shows the macroblocking that exists more than busier images do, and also reveals a small amount of video "garbage" around the lettering in the title. If you can live with that much video "crud" maybe you should switch to MPEG-4/h.264.


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## FiosUser (Nov 16, 2007)

I can post a screen shot.

My reasons for creating DVDs:
1. Space reasons: I'm finding video is taking up much more room than I thought and even my 500 GB drives won't last too long. So, storage on a DVD helps here as was as with #2.
2. So I can watch them on a DVD player (just like a VCR).


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## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

FiosUser said:


> I can post a screen shot.
> 
> My reasons for creating DVDs:
> 1. Space reasons: I'm finding video is taking up much more room than I thought and even my 500 GB drives won't last too long. So, storage on a DVD helps here as was as with #2.
> 2. So I can watch them on a DVD player (just like a VCR).


OK, I'll look forward to seeing a screen shot of the problem!


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## greeeto (Oct 27, 2008)

Hi. Tivo is very new to me, and Toast 9 is even newer. As I was installing Toast 9, I opted for the Tivo transfer function during installation. However, my caps lock was on when I entered my password and it didn't take. It then canceled me out and moved on to installing the program. Now, I can't figure out how to add that function after the fact. Any advice?


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## FiosUser (Nov 16, 2007)

greeeto said:


> Hi. Tivo is very new to me, and Toast 9 is even newer. As I was installing Toast 9, I opted for the Tivo transfer function during installation. However, my caps lock was on when I entered my password and it didn't take. It then canceled me out and moved on to installing the program. Now, I can't figure out how to add that function after the fact. Any advice?


What happens when you start the Toast 9 install again?


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## greeeto (Oct 27, 2008)

Can I un-install it and re-install it without buying it again? (it was the downloaded version).


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Yes, just run the installer again. It should give you an option to install the TiVo part of the app.


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## greeeto (Oct 27, 2008)

I will do that when I get home. Thanks.


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## Todd B. (Feb 6, 2002)

greeeto said:


> Hi. Tivo is very new to me, and Toast 9 is even newer. As I was installing Toast 9, I opted for the Tivo transfer function during installation. However, my caps lock was on when I entered my password and it didn't take. It then canceled me out and moved on to installing the program. Now, I can't figure out how to add that function after the fact. Any advice?


You don't have to reinstall. Inside Toast, just go to the "Help" menu and choose "Toast Setup Assistant".


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