# Cancelled Install - No OTA?



## Evilmumrah (Dec 15, 2002)

I ordered an HR21 to replace my HR10-250 (which is going into a different room). The TiVo is getting my locals OTA. Now, when the guy showed up, I cancelled because he told me he couldn't hook up the antenna because (and I am paraphrasing here) diplexing the antenna in to the new dish wouldn't work. If it was hooked up it would just keep blowing out the switch. Or something. He had never even heard of the AM-21, either. Now, color me confused, but what the hell? I'm no expert on this stuff, far from it in fact, but if what he told me is true, how the hell come DirecTV is selling the AM21? (I know, I know, what he told me isn't true, but I didn't know enough to straighten it out with him.) He did tell me that Boise (where I live) is supposedly getting locals off the dish next month, but I still want to get them on my TiVo, for which I would still need the antenna, correct?


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## Mavrick22 (Feb 7, 2006)

Not supposed to diplex even with the AM21 I had to run a third line to my HR21 to get my OTA hooked back up after my HR10-250 upgrade.


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## Evilmumrah (Dec 15, 2002)

He didn't seem willing to even explore any possibilities. That's why I cancelled. My son-in-law had his HR21 installed last weekend and they apparently solved this problem. I will probably try to have him here when I reschedule so he can hopefully deal with the installer on this.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Fact is you can't diplex in OTA with the new 5 LNB dish. You'll need a separate line for the OTA no matter what solution you use (HR20 with built in OTA or the AM21 addon to the HR21).

You can get the AM21 directly from DirecTV and free if you are getting an HR21 upgrade from an HR10. Just call and they'll ship you one once your HR21 is installed. I don't think any installers have it since it's only been available for a few days.


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

Evilmumrah said:


> He didn't seem willing to even explore any possibilities. That's why I cancelled. My son-in-law had his HR21 installed last weekend and they apparently solved this problem. I will probably try to have him here when I reschedule so he can hopefully deal with the installer on this.


Unfortunately unless you get a really nice installer, there are no other possibilities, they do not include a antenna run in the install IIRC. And if your son-in-law had his installed last weekend, it would have made no difference since he didnt have the AM-21, so they only ran the wires needed for the DirecTv install.


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## Evilmumrah (Dec 15, 2002)

jimb726 said:


> Unfortunately unless you get a really nice installer, there are no other possibilities, they do not include a antenna run in the install IIRC. And if your son-in-law had his installed last weekend, it would have made no difference since he didnt have the AM-21, so they only ran the wires needed for the DirecTv install.


Actually, I should have said that he also gets his locals via OTA so they must have run a separate line. Should I have insisted that they do that?


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

Evilmumrah said:


> Actually, I should have said that he also gets his locals via OTA so they must have run a separate line. Should I have insisted that they do that?


I don't see any positive outcome in that. Do we even know if there wasn't already a separate line for him?

But you could slip them a 20 to run it while they are running other lines in the same path, or pay them off the books for a separate install. The DTV free install typically does not include an OTA run. Just a little bit of research would have told you that, that diplexing is not possible with the 5LNB dish, that the HR21 does not have OTA, and that the AM21 is an option. IOW, what your installer told you sounds pretty standard, and should be about what's expected. It's always unfortunate to be dissapointed with how things are, though, I know.

I'd mull it over for a week or two, and consider rescheduling.


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## Evilmumrah (Dec 15, 2002)

Well, as to the research -- I *do* know that the HR21 doesn't have an OTA tuner, and I *do* know that the AM21 is available. But nowhere in any of the threads that I read on here did I see anything about not being able to diplex the antenna. Maybe I just missed it, but I thought I had read most of the posts. I find it aggravating the authorized installers don't know that there is any such thing as an AM21 and/or how to deal with it and that the guy didn't seem too inclined to run the line for me. I fully intend to reschedule and have my son-in-law here for the install so he can communicate with the installers. They must have run the antenna line for him. I am a little resentful that the installer, since I am a woman, didn't think I would be able to understand what was going on. I just wasn't able to convince him that I knew what *I* was talking about. Consequently, I canceled the whole thing and will start over. Hopefully the guy wasn't lying about getting locals in HD in June. As to that, does anyone know about roll out dates for HD locals?


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## pmturcotte (May 7, 2001)

So what is the proper way to hook up the HR21 and AM21 since I have the AM on the way?

I have a rooftop antenna with the coax line from the antenna that runs into my room - previously attached to the HR10. Does this attach to the AM21 and then a separate connector of some kind connects the two receivers?


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

First of all to both of you: This is not the forum to get good information on DirecTV's new products. DBSTalk is the forum dedicated to this information. You will only find scattered bits and pieces of info here.

Evilmumrah - There are no announced dates for more HD local rollouts but very doubtful that any will happen until the new sat, D11, comes online probably sometime in June or July.

pmturcotte - The AM21 connects to the HR21 via USB. Your OTA antenna line will go into the AM21. That's all you need. Tons of info on the AM21 over at DBSTalk.


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## pmturcotte (May 7, 2001)

shibby191 said:


> First of all to both of you: This is not the forum to get good information on DirecTV's new products. DBSTalk is the forum dedicated to this information. You will only find scattered bits and pieces of info here.
> 
> Evilmumrah - There are no announced dates for more HD local rollouts but very doubtful that any will happen until the new sat, D11, comes online probably sometime in June or July.
> 
> pmturcotte - The AM21 connects to the HR21 via USB. Your OTA antenna line will go into the AM21. That's all you need. Tons of info on the AM21 over at DBSTalk.


Thanks, I've been a member here for 7 years I know which forum is supposed to be which. But the forum moderators have repeatedly said that discussion of the new DTV products are welcome on these forums now and there has been increasing traffic in that regard.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

pmturcotte said:


> Thanks, I've been a member here for 7 years I know which forum is supposed to be which. But the forum moderators have repeatedly said that discussion of the new DTV products are welcome on these forums now and there has been increasing traffic in that regard.


No problem. Well, to clarify the discussion of DTV products, it's more toward a comparison between them and the Tivo units, not for actual good support type info. Very few people post here about the DTV products where you have hundreds and thousands over on DBSTalk. You'll get much better, accurate and faster response over there. Just an FYI, no harm intended.


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

Evilmumrah said:


> Actually, I should have said that he also gets his locals via OTA so they must have run a separate line. Should I have insisted that they do that?


But if he had an HR21, how did they hook up the OTA? Directly to his TV set? I do think that you have to specify it. However on that count I am not 100% sure.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Why should running a separate line for OTA be included in your free install....? 

I'm sure if you asked how much he would charge to run the line for you, you'd be up an running.

OTA has nothing to do with DirecTV, they just happen to allow you to connect an OTA input to your DVR.


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## Evilmumrah (Dec 15, 2002)

Geez, where did I say I wanted him to do it for free? He WOULDN'T do it. He pretty much looked at me like I was an idiot and I could not get my point across to him. Oh, and by the way, I was paying a $99.00 installation fee in the first place.


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## Evilmumrah (Dec 15, 2002)

Just to clarify matters here -- this was not a new installation and I was paying for it. Since I'm trying to move my HD TiVo and get the antenna hooked up to it for my local HD channels and the installer couldn't or wouldn't hook up a separate line to the antenna that I already have, I thought I could ask the question here. Sorry if that appears to be out of line. From now on I will take my issues over to DBSTalk.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Evilmumrah said:


> Just to clarify matters here -- this was not a new installation and I was paying for it. Since I'm trying to move my HD TiVo and get the antenna hooked up to it for my local HD channels and the installer couldn't or wouldn't hook up a separate line to the antenna that I already have, I thought I could ask the question here. Sorry if that appears to be out of line. From now on I will take my issues over to DBSTalk.


Woa, calm down man! 

You didn't explain that you were willing to pay him to run a brand new line and he refused in your OP.

But in reality, you might be better off at DBSTalk, I'm guessing folks over there are more knowledgable of the non-TiVo products.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

Evilmumrah said:


> Just to clarify matters here -- this was not a new installation and I was paying for it. Since I'm trying to move my HD TiVo and get the antenna hooked up to it for my local HD channels and the installer couldn't or wouldn't hook up a separate line to the antenna that I already have, I thought I could ask the question here. Sorry if that appears to be out of line. From now on I will take my issues over to DBSTalk.


Good luck with that, but most any forum including this one will give you good information if the questions are asked properly, combined with relative information, and if passive-aggressiveness is minimized.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

TyroneShoes said:


> I don't see any positive outcome in that. Do we even know if there wasn't already a separate line for him?
> 
> But you could slip them a 20 to run it while they are running other lines in the same path, or pay them off the books for a separate install. The DTV free install typically does not include an OTA run. Just a little bit of research would have told you that, that diplexing is not possible with the 5LNB dish, that the HR21 does not have OTA, and that the AM21 is an option. IOW, what your installer told you sounds pretty standard, and should be about what's expected. It's always unfortunate to be dissapointed with how things are, though, I know.
> 
> I'd mull it over for a week or two, and consider rescheduling.


Huh? If the installer doesn't know about that kind of stuff and it's his livelihood, then he's not getting the proper training?


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

The real question is if she ordered the unit from Direct, why didn't they ask her? If they saw an HR10-250 was being moved, why didn't they ask the obvious question 'are you getting local channels from an antenna? Think of all the grief that would be saved.

Evilmumrah - Direct was replacing the HR10-250 for free - including the installation. I'm not sure if it's too late for you or not, but I would suggest looking into that.


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## Evilmumrah (Dec 15, 2002)

RS4 said:


> The real question is if she ordered the unit from Direct, why didn't they ask her? If they saw an HR10-250 was being moved, why didn't they ask the obvious question 'are you getting local channels from an antenna? Think of all the grief that would be saved.
> 
> Evilmumrah - Direct was replacing the HR10-250 for free - including the installation. I'm not sure if it's too late for you or not, but I would suggest looking into that.


Actually, they weren't replacing it for free. I was going to pay $199 for the HR21 and $99 for the installation. Maybe I should just call them and try to get two HR21s and let them have the HR10-250. The problem would still be the same, though, an installer who appeared to be clueless about getting me my locals through the antenna.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

$99 for installation? That's wrong. Installation is always free for upgrades. You'll get the new 5LNB dish as well which you need for the new HD. Installation is free.

Something is smelling funny about the whole thing. I'd almost suggest you just cancel it period. Wait a few days and then call retention and get a proper upgrade scheduled.

And I think I mentioned this before, you can keep your HR10. The installer isn't going to want it. Just don't mention it to the installer and he'll probably not even bother asking for it.

Now if you were really willing to pay $99 for install then I'd suggest you actually go with a local satellite dealer to install and run your OTA line since they will do it right.


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

shibby191 said:


> $99 for installation? That's wrong. Installation is always free for upgrades. You'll get the new 5LNB dish as well which you need for the new HD. Installation is free.
> 
> Something is smelling funny about the whole thing. I'd almost suggest you just cancel it period. Wait a few days and then call retention and get a proper upgrade scheduled.
> 
> ...


She said it wasnt an upgrade. It was an additional receiver. She was keeping her HR10. So in that case, they are charging her the 99 dollar installation fee.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

jimb726 said:


> She said it wasnt an upgrade. It was an additional receiver. She was keeping her HR10. So in that case, they are charging her the 99 dollar installation fee.


It was an upgrade. To install the HR2x they most upgrade the dish for complete functionality.


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

rminsk said:


> It was an upgrade. To install the HR2x they most upgrade the dish for complete functionality.


The upgrade the dish, but in her case she ordered the HR2X. If I read her post correctly her HR10 has nothing to do with it. The upgrades from the HR10 to the HR2X dont seem to have any installation fees associated, but then you would most likely have to give them back the HR10.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

jimb726 said:


> The upgrade the dish, but in her case she ordered the HR2X.


By ordering a HR2X she is upgrading her service which requires a dish upgrade. DirecTV usually performs these upgrades for free. The HR10-250 has nothing to do with it.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

It's possible she did it online in which case it may not have done anything with the dish. She should call, say she want to upgrade to the new MPEG4 HD channels and they will set her up with free installation upgrading the dish, multiswitch if needed and installing the receiver (HR21).

Still though, if she's willing to pay for the installation her best bet is to go local and get it done right.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

Since you don't state exactly where you are from there would be no way (even if one had the ability to find out) to tell you if or when you would be getting *your* locals. There are lots of HD locals currently available in numerous areas.

With a little more info maybe we can help.



Evilmumrah said:


> Hopefully the guy wasn't lying about getting locals in HD in June. As to that, does anyone know about roll out dates for HD locals?


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## Evilmumrah (Dec 15, 2002)

incog-neato said:


> Since you don't state exactly where you are from there would be no way (even if one had the ability to find out) to tell you if or when you would be getting *your* locals. There are lots of HD locals currently available in numerous areas.
> 
> With a little more info maybe we can help.


Boise.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

I checked and Boise is not in any "coming soon" lists that I have access to.

Disclaimer: While these lists do come from "the source" that doesn't mean that they are showing everything so your installer may know something I don't see but I wouldn't expect anything.


Evilmumrah said:


> Boise.


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## nellee (May 26, 2002)

shibby191 said:


> It's possible she did it online in which case it may not have done anything with the dish. She should call, say she want to upgrade to the new MPEG4 HD channels and they will set her up with free installation upgrading the dish, multiswitch if needed and installing the receiver (HR21).
> 
> Still though, if she's willing to pay for the installation her best bet is to go local and get it done right.


I have called Directv and asked for a new HD DVR receiver and first quote is $199 + $99 installation fee. They already new I had another HD DVR and the newest dish, but I said last time (Aug 2007) I got it for free (receiver and dish installed) and CSR said that deal is no longer offered.

Of course you can complain and push for a better deal, but looks like OP did not and just agreed to the deal first offered.

OP is obviously not "upgrading" from the HR10-250, she is keeping that still. But i think the point here is when she called for the new receiver+dish, that was the first price quote she was given and she took it, not knowing that she can "bargain" or get retention on the line.


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## CrashHD (Nov 10, 2006)

You can diplex OTA in on a 5LNB install. There's a thread about how to do it somewhere (dbstalk, I think). IIRC, the trick is to diplex the OTA in, downstream from the BBC. Basically, like this:

Multiswitch-->BBC-->Diplexer-->Receiver.

You can't insert OTA at the multiswitch to get it on all lines at once anymore, but you can diplex it in, one cable at a time, with I diplexer at each end. The catch with doing it this way is the cable run cannot be too long. The output of the BBC is in a higher frequency range that suffers greater signal attenuation than the other frequencies.

This is a totally non-standard technique, so it's doubtful you will get a tech to do it for you


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## Evilmumrah (Dec 15, 2002)

I did order the new equipment online, actually, as I got tired of being on hold.

What I'm really wondering about is this-- what if I had just gotten the new DVR and moved the TiVo myself, replacing an SD TiVo, without mentioning that I wanted to be connected to the antenna. Then I order the AM21, I get it and want to hook it up to the old antenna connection. Is that connection still going to be functional? What I'm getting at here is how the hell is this supposed to work? At this point I am pretty confused about how a layperson is supposed to figure this all out. Maybe I should have just done that and hired somebody else to run the antenna line.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Evilmumrah said:


> I did order the new equipment online, actually, as I got tired of being on hold.
> 
> What I'm really wondering about is this-- what if I had just gotten the new DVR and moved the TiVo myself, replacing an SD TiVo, without mentioning that I wanted to be connected to the antenna. Then I order the AM21, I get it and want to hook it up to the old antenna connection. Is that connection still going to be functional? What I'm getting at here is how the hell is this supposed to work?


Well, you can go down to Costco and get a HR21 for $169. $199 probably any place else. And install it yourself if you have the ability.

The key with OTA is that you simply need to run a cable directly from your antenna to your receiver, no diplexing in for the HR20/21's. You can certainly split your antenna line to say two locations but you still can't diplex it in for the HR20/21s.



> At this point I am pretty confused about how a layperson is supposed to figure this all out. Maybe I should have just done that and hired somebody else to run the antenna line.


Well, that's why they have installers or you can hire an independent installer yourself (better service then the "free" install) if you can't do it yourself. I personally learned it all myself via trial and error 12 years ago. Back then DirecTV didn't even have installers available. You went down to Sears and paid $850 for a single LNB dish and receiver and you installed it yourself. And there wasn't really an Internet yet to get help on. 

When I got my free dish upgrade a couple years ago I only allowed the guy to put up the new dish. I didn't allow him to touch any of my cables, switches or receivers. He was impressed with my work and was very happy that he didn't have to mess with any of it.  Only thing he did was verify that everything worked on the new HR20 and went on his way.


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## Evilmumrah (Dec 15, 2002)

But I would still need the new dish. Where could I get one and how much would it cost.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Evilmumrah said:


> But I would still need the new dish. Where could I get one and how much would it cost.


You can get a Slimline for 90-100 at places like Solid Signal.


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## CrashHD (Nov 10, 2006)

$69.99 shipped http://cgi.ebay.com/Directv-5LNB-KAKU-Dish-FREE-SHIPPING_W0QQitemZ230213391450QQcmdZViewItem

They can be had cheaper than that if you have the time to wait for a good auction on ebay.

They can be had even cheaper than that if you have a lot of time look out for one. I got one for free from a dumpster last month.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

RS4 said:


> Huh? If the installer doesn't know about that kind of stuff and it's his livelihood, then he's not getting the proper training?


Sorry if that zoomed over your head. The point is that if she waits a week or two, thinks it through with what she knows now, and decides to try again, she's unlikely to get that installer again or hopefully one that clueless. Also, she's now armed with all of our good advice , rather than blindly jumping into the void, which is kind of what happened the first time.

It's not about one dumb installer, it's about making an informed decision while hopefully avoiding dumb installers.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

TyroneShoes said:


> Sorry if that zoomed over your head. The point is that if she waits a week or two, thinks it through with what she knows now, and decides to try again, she's unlikely to get that installer again or hopefully one that clueless. Also, she's now armed with all of our good advice , rather than blindly jumping into the void, which is kind of what happened the first time.
> 
> It's not about one dumb installer, it's about making an informed decision while hopefully avoiding dumb installers.


Sorry if that zoomed over your head I'll spell it out more clearly-

Most cable companies use their own crews, however we find that Direct uses a lot of third party crews - and apparently can't be bothered with whether they are trained or not In my eyes, this is yet another indication of a company that just doesn't really care - because they know you're more interested in HD, and will put up with whatever they throw your way


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

RS4 said:


> Sorry if that zoomed over your head I'll spell it out more clearly-
> 
> I don't have DirecTV anymore, but will continue to find a way to bash them just because they wouldn't let me try their DVR without a commitment. So, since I've exhausted myself telling half truths about a DVR I never even used, I will now try to bash their install crews even though I know that cable companies hire people with little or no experience too.


IFYP yet again


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

RS4 said:


> Sorry if that zoomed over your head I'll spell it out more clearly-
> 
> Most cable companies use their own crews, however we find that Direct uses a lot of third party crews - and apparently can't be bothered with whether they are trained or not In my eyes, this is yet another indication of a company that just doesn't really care - because they know you're more interested in HD, and will put up with whatever they throw your way


Not here...

When I tried to get CableCards with Comcast, they sent out contractors. Twice. Both times without cablecards.

Finally they apologized and promised a Comcast employee. Who also showed up without cablecards.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

RS4 said:


> Sorry if that zoomed over your head I'll spell it out more clearly-...


I tried twice and it still missed the mark widely, each time. Would I be considered a glutton for punishment if I tried a third time?  It's almost as if he is posting responses to a completely different thread in a completely different forum in a completely different universe.


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