# Bolt & HD Antenna



## RickyMac (Apr 23, 2007)

I have a new Bolt arriving soon. I am planning to cut the cord with Cable and utilize an HD Antenna. I have a pole that extends 10 feet above my house where I plan to mount one of those 8 panel antennas.
I currently am using a Roamio Pro with three minis. I plan on selling the Roamino Pro.

Does anyone have this type of setup? How is it working? Problems with installation? Should I go another way? Thanks in advance for any recommendations/comments.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

OTA reception is site specific so no one can tell you how it will work. I would get the antenna up now and connect it to your TV to test before dropping cable.


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## RickyMac (Apr 23, 2007)

I used a cheap indoor HD Antenna recently. I picked up 8 beautiful channels. I will be happy with this, but I expect more when I get the big outdoor antenna up. I got all my networks, bounce, Grit, Movies and something else, not sure yet.


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## ScottFL (Dec 14, 2015)

I bought a clearstream 2v antenna and tested it before I cancelled DISH Network I get 52 channels nice and clear.


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## bferrell (Jun 22, 2005)

I recently did something similar. I got the Mohu Sky 60 and mounted it in my attic (2 story house). I live about 30 miles from both Cincinnati and Dayton's towers, and they're basically both on nearly a due North axis from me, so I'm well positioned for both.

I think the antenna is pretty good, probably as good as they advertise, as my Samsung TV got nearly every channel that their website predicted for me. My Tivo Bolt doesn't do quite that well, and when I asked support about it they indicated that TV's often have better tuners than the Tivo (I forget exactly what they said, but the gist was that they weren't surprised that my TV did better on it's own). Nevertheless, I get the Dayton stations quite well, but I really wanted more of the Cincinnati ones, but I can only get one. I do get every Network, though.

In my setup, I used the (powered/amped) antenna to connect to my home wiring, but I did test before hand and I don't see any notable degradation to using this technique to distribute the signal throughout my house. Overall I'm pleased, but would like to see Tivo's OTA tuner improved.

Brett


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## GoodSpike (Dec 17, 2001)

atmuscarella said:


> OTA reception is site specific so no one can tell you how it will work. I would get the antenna up now and connect it to your TV to test before dropping cable.


I would agree, particularly when we don't even know what state the OP is in. Are they in Kansas, where everything is flat, or in a hilly area like most of the West Coast?

Are there local forums over at AVS that deal with OTA? That would probably be a better place to look since reception is not all that device specific.


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## Aero 1 (Aug 8, 2007)

PSA:

There is no such thing as an HD antenna, SD antenna, Digital antenna or Analog antenna, they are simply Antennas.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Local AVS forums is a great resource. TV Fool should tell you exactly what channels you'd get and what antenna you need. Sounds like you probably don't need too big of a one if you already get stuff with just an indoor antenna.

And don't pay extra for an "HD" antenna. There is no such thing. I use a 30 year old rusting hulk of an antenna on my roof and it gets everything in just fine. Don't fall for the scam. Just get one that gets both UHF and VHF if you need both.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Aero 1 said:


> PSA:
> There is no such thing as an HD antenna, SD antenna, Digital antenna or Analog antenna, they are simply Antennas.


You forgot Color Antenna.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Aero 1 said:


> PSA:
> 
> There is no such thing as an HD antenna, SD antenna, Digital antenna or Analog antenna, they are simply Antennas.





bonscott87 said:


> Local AVS forums is a great resource. TV Fool should tell you exactly what channels you'd get and what antenna you need. Sounds like you probably don't need too big of a one if you already get stuff with just an indoor antenna.
> 
> And don't pay extra for an "HD" antenna. There is no such thing. I use a 30 year old rusting hulk of an antenna on my roof and it gets everything in just fine. Don't fall for the scam. *Just get one that gets both UHF and VHF if you need both.*


Yeb all the words added to antenna other than UHF or VHF are marketing terms and mean nothing. Just a note remember VHF are channels 13 & below, and what counts is what frequency/channel the station broadcasts on not virtual channel number as an example in Rochester NY channel 8.1 broadcasts on frequency/channel 45 but channel 10.1 actually does broadcast on frequency/channel 10.


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## ScottFL (Dec 14, 2015)

JoeKustra said:


> You forgot Color Antenna.


I just picked up the best HD 4k color 3D antenna and it works great on my new holographic television.


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## GoodSpike (Dec 17, 2001)

ScottFL said:


> I just picked up the best HD 4k color 3D antenna and it works great on my new holographic television.


I always insist on 3D antennas, because otherwise they're too unidirectional.


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## J0ker007 (Jan 15, 2016)

bferrell said:


> I recently did something similar. I got the Mohu Sky 60 and mounted it in my attic (2 story house). I live about 30 miles from both Cincinnati and Dayton's towers, and they're basically both on nearly a due North axis from me, so I'm well positioned for both.
> 
> I think the antenna is pretty good, probably as good as they advertise, as my Samsung TV got nearly every channel that their website predicted for me. My Tivo Bolt doesn't do quite that well, and when I asked support about it they indicated that TV's often have better tuners than the Tivo (I forget exactly what they said, but the gist was that they weren't surprised that my TV did better on it's own). Nevertheless, I get the Dayton stations quite well, but I really wanted more of the Cincinnati ones, but I can only get one. I do get every Network, though.
> 
> ...


I have the almost setup except that I still need to pull the trigger on the bolt but huge question, how many channels can I record at once with over the air with one antenna?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

J0ker007 said:


> I have the almost setup except that I still need to pull the trigger on the bolt but huge question, how many channels can I record at once with over the air with one antenna?


Huge answer: no more than four. I promise.


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## Nickipedia (Jul 18, 2015)

JoeKustra said:


> Huge answer: no more than four. I promise.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Nickipedia said:


>


It's not all bad. You can watch a recording or streaming content while the four tuners are busy. Chin up.


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## Popinjay (Jan 15, 2016)

bferrell said:


> My Tivo Bolt doesn't do quite that well, and when I asked support about it they indicated that TV's often have better tuners than the Tivo... would like to see Tivo's OTA tuner improved.
> Brett


I have the same issue. I have a roof mounted antenna. I live within 20 miles of all the local towers with clear line of sight.

I was previously using a Windows Media Center PC and an Avermedia USB tuner. I'm getting bad pixelation and dropouts on the Bolt tuner on channels that looked fine on the Avermedia.


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## GoodSpike (Dec 17, 2001)

Popinjay said:


> I have the same issue. I have a roof mounted antenna. I live within 20 miles of all the local towers with clear line of sight.
> 
> I was previously using a Windows Media Center PC and an Avermedia USB tuner. I'm getting bad pixelation and dropouts on the Bolt tuner on channels that looked fine on the Avermedia.


How many tuners did that device have? If only one or two, that could be the difference.


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## Popinjay (Jan 15, 2016)

GoodSpike said:


> How many tuners did that device have? If only one or two, that could be the difference.


One tuner. Why does it make a difference?


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## GoodSpike (Dec 17, 2001)

Popinjay said:


> One tuner. Why does it make a difference?


Because they're splitting the signal to different tuners. As I understand it, that's not quite as bad as having a 1:4 splitter to four different devices, but it does have an impact. I'm basing this though on what I've read and what others have said.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

GoodSpike said:


> Because they're splitting the signal to different tuners. As I understand it, that's not quite as bad as having a 1:4 splitter to four different devices, but it does have an impact. I'm basing this though on what I've read and what others have said.


I suspect that those sources were either misinformed or making assumptions that were unjustified. A system that has multiple tuners built into a single receiver chip does not require internal splitters.


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## GoodSpike (Dec 17, 2001)

snerd said:


> I suspect that those sources were either misinformed or making assumptions that were unjustified. A system that has multiple tuners built into a single receiver chip does not require internal splitters.


I didn't say that they had internal splitters, but how can you send the signal to four tuners (even four tuners in the same chip) without impacting the signal?


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

ScottFL said:


> I just picked up the best HD 4k color 3D antenna and it works great on my new holographic television.


Yeah but yours doesn't do the new 4K/UHD HDR, so you're screwed when that is standard! 



GoodSpike said:


> Because they're splitting the signal to different tuners. As I understand it, that's not quite as bad as having a 1:4 splitter to four different devices, but it does have an impact. I'm basing this though on what I've read and what others have said.





snerd said:


> I suspect that those sources were either misinformed or making assumptions that were unjustified. A system that has multiple tuners built into a single receiver chip does not require internal splitters.





GoodSpike said:


> I didn't say that they had internal splitters, but how can you send the signal to four tuners (even four tuners in the same chip) without impacting the signal?


I believe he explained in a previous thread..... It's by using buffer amps.


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## GoodSpike (Dec 17, 2001)

HarperVision said:


> I believe he explained in a previous thread..... It's by using buffer amps.


I have seen amps mentioned, but you could also use amps with ordinary splitters too.

I can see there would be real efficiencies and less loss of signal having the four tuners part of a single integrated device, similar to how moving processes onto a computer's CPU is better. But I have a hard time seeing how if you have two different devices, both designed and manufactured in the same general timeframe by the same company, that the one with fewer tuners (and no functionality to do Internet streaming) wouldn't be the better device at pulling in a weak signal.

I'm not saying these are things I know. It's more an interesting topic I'd like to learn more about, in part because it could impact future purchasing decisions.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

GoodSpike said:


> I didn't say that they had internal splitters, but how can you send the signal to four tuners (even four tuners in the same chip) without impacting the signal?


Let me make an analogy. The lights in your home are all connected to the same power source. If someone turns on the lights in a bedroom, the lights in your living room don't drop to half brightness. The voltage at the 120V outlets on the wall doesn't really change much as more lights are turned on.

The inside of a receiver chip is similar. If the tuners are designed properly, several tuners can share the same wire (and thus the same video signal) without impacting each other to the point where the signal becomes degraded. A buffer amplifier inside the receiver chip can drive several tuners and all of them will share the same signal. Each individual tuner will tune to the 6MHz band that includes the desired channel, and convert that into a digital stream that includes data for either a couple of HD channels or many SD channels, and extract the appropriate stream to be recorded and/or displayed by the TV.


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## Popinjay (Jan 15, 2016)

So, that being the case, any ideas on why the Tivo's tuners perform noticeably worse than my former USB tuner and HTPC? And even on fairly strong channels?


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

Popinjay said:


> So, that being the case, any ideas on why the Tivo's tuners perform noticeably worse than my former USB tuner and HTPC? And even on fairly strong channels?


They are different tuners designed by different engineers. There are many different factors that impact tuners performance. Could be that the TiVo's tuners just suck compared to the others.


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## GoodSpike (Dec 17, 2001)

snerd said:


> Let me make an analogy. The lights in your home are all connected to the same power source. If someone turns on the lights in a bedroom, the lights in your living room don't drop to half brightness. The voltage at the 120V outlets on the wall doesn't really change much as more lights are turned on.


That's a horrible analogy, because you're not in any way stressing the signal/current, and splitting the line doesn't in any way reduce the current going to the lines (although you could overload the line before the split if the same gauge wire.

But if you want to use that analogy, with older refrigerators (which require more power and higher surge demand) in older homes (with less circuits) the lights often do dim when the refrigerator starts up.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

Popinjay said:


> So, that being the case, any ideas on why the Tivo's tuners perform noticeably worse than my former USB tuner and HTPC? And even on fairly strong channels?


Which TiVo ? I've compared my Roamio Basic against other tuners at home using a single splitter and two identical cables and always get the same results, bad stations are bad, good ones are good. I've used the tv's remote to switch quickly between two tuners. There is no difference.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

snerd said:


> They are different tuners designed by different engineers. There are many different factors that impact tuners performance. Could be that the TiVo's tuners just suck compared to the others.





Popinjay said:


> So, that being the case, any ideas on why the Tivo's tuners perform noticeably worse than my former USB tuner and HTPC? And even on fairly strong channels?


Yep. One tuner could be really sensitive to multipath, the other isn't. The tuner used with WMC could also have been boosting the signal a bit too and maybe the Tivo tuners don't.

In my setup I seen no difference using the internal TV tuner, my old HDHomerun dual tuner or the Bolt tuners. If anything the Bolt tuners are more "solid" and less dropouts then I had with the HDHomerun.

If you have a signal booster you may want to try it without the booster when connected to the Tivo, see if that helps, the booster may be overpowering it. Or even could be the other way around, may need a booster with the Tivo. There are just a ton of variables to consider with OTA it's really hard to give a pinpoint answer.


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## Popinjay (Jan 15, 2016)

jth tv said:


> Which TiVo ? I've compared my Roamio Basic against other tuners at home using a single splitter and two identical cables and always get the same results, bad stations are bad, good ones are good. I've used the tv's remote to switch quickly between two tuners. There is no difference.


It is the Bolt. It performs worse than both the USB tuner and the tuner built into my Vizio TV. All other variables are held static.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

Static ? You did not say you did a A/B test like I suggested, like people do when testing equipment. So a variable would be time, which in my case was critical since the main problem here was truck traffic, not easy to spot (but does vary by time of day).


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

GoodSpike said:


> That's a horrible analogy, because you're not in any way stressing the signal/current, and splitting the line doesn't in any way reduce the current going to the lines (although you could overload the line before the split if the same gauge wire.
> 
> But if you want to use that analogy, with older refrigerators (which require more power and higher surge demand) in older homes (with less circuits) the lights often do dim when the refrigerator starts up.


Each additional light bulb draws more power. The physical law known as "conservation of energy" demands it. The point is that many devices can share the signal/power from a common source without a system failure. This is true of both lightbulbs and RF tuners.

I'm sorry that my analogy isn't helpful. If you are an electrical engineer, I can describe the difference in terms of the input impedance of the tuners being so much larger than the output impedance of a buffer amplifier, so that a single buffer amplifier can drive a few (or a dozen) tuners. Since I don't know your background, I don't really know what kinds of engineering concepts I can employ before it just sounds like techno-babble.


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

I just bought a Bolt this afternoon. I hooked my OTA antenna up to it and it doesn't get half of the channels I got just plugging the antenna into my older JVC LCD TV. 

My antenna is mounted outside but pointed directly at my neighbor's house which is about 10 feet away. So I might move the antenna to a different location to see if I can get a non-obstructed view of the transmission towers. 

I was reading that a big issue with the stucco homes that are popular here in the Southwestern US is that they put chicken-wire up on the homes before they coat them with the stucco. So basically your home is a big faraday-cage, so antennas indoors don't work well, and I am assuming one trying to get a signal through a house won't work well...


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## Pixel (Jan 10, 2003)

I'm doing that. I have a small antenna in the attic of my house pointed at the broadcast antennas. In my city (Milwaukee) all OTA signals are broadcast from essentially the same place. I'm about 20 miles from those towers. So for me, this is working just fine.

Honestly, I'd have to do something different if I were farther away or there were multiple broadcast locations.

Good luck.


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## Pixel (Jan 10, 2003)

DeDondeEs said:


> I was reading that a big issue with the stucco homes that are popular here in the Southwestern US is that they put chicken-wire up on the homes before they coat them with the stucco. So basically your home is a big faraday-cage, so antennas indoors don't work well, and I am assuming one trying to get a signal through a house won't work well...


Same thing with aluminum siding.


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## KimHedrick (Oct 12, 2014)

My house has a metal roof so the attic is a "no go" for me.  Most of my stations are in basically the same direction, about 315 degrees but the CBS affiliate is at 255 degrees so I guess I'm going to need two antennas. They are between 20 and 60 miles away.


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

I moved the antenna to the front of the house and mounted it there. All channels come in well (around a 65 signal strength for all channels). My buyers remorse from buying the Bolt has gone away. Loving it! Now I guess I will find out how strict my HOA is with the antenna now mounted near the front of my home.


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## GoodSpike (Dec 17, 2001)

DeDondeEs said:


> Now I guess I will find out how strict my HOA is with the antenna now mounted near the front of my home.


Aren't there FCC regulations on what they can do?


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## ScottFL (Dec 14, 2015)

DeDondeEs said:


> I moved the antenna to the front of the house and mounted it there. All channels come in well (around a 65 signal strength for all channels). My buyers remorse from buying the Bolt has gone away. Loving it! Now I guess I will find out how strict my HOA is with the antenna now mounted near the front of my home.


Stick a birds nest on it and claim you can't move it without risking the life of the nest's inhabitants.


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## ScottFL (Dec 14, 2015)

GoodSpike said:


> Aren't there FCC regulations on what they can do?


Telecommunications Act of 1996 Your local HOA is prohibited from enforcing local laws banning, or even delaying mounting of, a satellite dish or antenna that is less than 39 inches (1 meter) in diameter.

and;
A requirement that an antenna be placed in a position where reception would be impossible or would be substantially degraded would conflict with the rule. However, a regulation requiring that antennas be placed to the extent feasible in locations that are not visible from the street would be permitted, if this placement would still permit reception of an acceptable quality signal.

So as long as you can prove that the best reception is at the front of your house you should be ok.


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## RickyMac (Apr 23, 2007)

Well I have cut the cord. Installed the new Bolt, love it! It is fast!! Had problem with antenna placement. Put new 8 way antenna on my old 20' pole and received the channels I expected, but lots of pixilation on some channels. Lowered antenna to ground level and placed in front of house. I now get clear channels all the time, very pleased.

Total saving after dropping digital cable channels is $80. per month.

I kept their internet service because they are the only option in my area (Cable of East Alabama, Phenix City, AL). Their service cost me $95. per month.

Two channels that we miss!!! History & Hallmark - Any suggestions?? I know that I could get History if I purchase SLING TV, but that is an additional $20 per month and I would not be able to record shows with Tivo.


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

Quick question. Assuming that I am getting the channels without any major drops or major pixelation or drop in audio, does a stronger signal strength give you better picture quality? 

For example, if on a channel I am getting a signal strength of 65, according to the Bolt, and I am not experiencing any obvious dropouts or pixelations, and I invest in a better antenna that got my signal strength into the 90's (if possible), would I see a better picture, or would that just make the signal more reliable?

I was always told that with digital either you get the data or you don't, but I didn't know if there was any type of error correction or what-not going on in the background with a weaker digital channel.


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## GoodSpike (Dec 17, 2001)

DeDondeEs said:


> Quick question. Assuming that I am getting the channels without any major drops or major pixelation or drop in audio, does a stronger signal strength give you better picture quality?


I don't believe it matters. Where it will matter is in adverse weather conditions--similar to using satellite.

BTW, is it possible to have error correction on something that only communicates one direction?


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

GoodSpike said:


> BTW, is it possible to have error correction on something that only communicates one direction?


Yes. Error correction employs redundant information so that when errors occur, the original data can be recovered. There are limits to how many errors can be corrected in a given block/stream of data.


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