# Bolt with FIOS Cable Card



## Lou Cetrangelo (Nov 17, 2017)

I need some help with a new TIVO Bolt setup using FIOS with a Cable Card.

I am currently using a Tivo Bolt and two mini boxes I have FIOS for internet only. Out of the ONT (optical network terminal) I have an Ethernet cable going to the WAN port on my router. Then a Ethernet cable from my router to the Bolt's Ethernet port. I have a coax antenna cable coming in from my OTA antenna to a splitter that goes to the Bolt coax port and two mini boxes. It all works fine (except for now poor reception on most channels). See first attached diagram.








I want to add FIOS cable TV service using a cable card in my Bolt. I am a little unclear here how to connect it all up. After pairing the cable card and installing it in the Bolt do I connect a coax cable from the ONT to a three way splitter. Next connect three coax cables from the other side of the splitter to my Bolt and two mini boxes. In this setup I will leave the Ethernet cable from the ONT to my router and then to the network port on the Bolt. See second attached diagram.








Or do connect the coax cable as above and disconnect the Ethernet cable from the ONT and then use a moca bridge before the splitter to provide internet to my router along with a network cable from the router to the bolt. See third attached diagram.








Thanks in advance


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Diagram #2, 100%. No moca bridge necessary.

The ethernet cable coming out of a moca bridge only connects to a router's LAN to create a moca network, it can't be used to connect the WAN. In any event, #2 is what you want.

Also to be clear, the cablecard can be activated and paired after the coax is connected, not before.


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## jay_man2 (Sep 15, 2003)

I have FiOS triple play with a Premiere and a Bolt, and get internet connectivity with just the coax. FiOS supports MoCa which gives me internet connectivity for guide data and "connection" between the two TiVos.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

jay_man2 said:


> I have FiOS triple play with a Premiere and a Bolt, and get internet connectivity with just the coax. FiOS supports MoCa which gives me internet connectivity for guide data and "connection" between the two TiVos.


He's already connected by ethernet. No reason to change it. All modern Fios installations will use ethernet since coax speeds don't exceed 75mbps (some markets claim 100mbps).


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## Lou Cetrangelo (Nov 17, 2017)

Great. Thanks. I didn't realize that the ethernet and coax will both work at the same time out of the FIOS ONT. Waiting for hardware in the mail now. I ordered their router just in case but will be sending it back.


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## jay_man2 (Sep 15, 2003)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> He's already connected by ethernet. No reason to change it. All modern Fios installations will use ethernet since coax speeds don't exceed 75mbps (some markets claim 100mbps).


I can't easily run Ethernet to those boxes. When I had Comcast I was using wireless adapters on the TiVos. I'm happy with the FiOS setup I have and not needing those wireless adapters.


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## jay_man2 (Sep 15, 2003)

Lou Cetrangelo said:


> Great. Thanks. I didn't realize that the ethernet and coax will both work at the same time out of the FIOS ONT. Waiting for hardware in the mail now. I ordered their router just in case but will be sending it back.


Before you send the router back make sure you don't need it for TV. I seem to recall it being required for TV, but I'm not certain.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

jay_man2 said:


> Before you send the router back make sure you don't need it for TV. I seem to recall it being required for TV, but I'm not certain.


It's required for their STBs (the built-in moca network lets them get guide data, order on demand, etc), won't be technically necessary with Tivo gear.


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## MrDell (Jul 8, 2012)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> It's required for their STBs (the built-in moca network lets them get guide data, order on demand, etc), won't be technically necessary with Tivo gear.


 That's 100% correct.. I have Fios with my Bolt and don't use their router... just need to rent their cable card.


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## Lou Cetrangelo (Nov 17, 2017)

I got my cablecard today and did the self install over the internet to activate. That went smooth and it was activated. I did the guided setup. There were two Verizon FIOS choices (for the channel guide I suppose). One was "Verizon FIOS Queens, Massapequa NY Standard Cable" and "Verizon FIOS New York Digital" I called Verizon and they said to use the first one (I actually tried it again using the second as well. 

Everything looks good with all the channels showing when I do "Guide" but nothing plays. When I do settings >channel settings> channel signal strength. I get "0" no digital signal.

I later called the Verizon activation phone number and gave my activation code and zip code. It was an automated service but they came back and said it was all activated and ready to go.

I have the coax coming out of the ONT through a three way splitter into my Bolt and the ethernet network cable is the way it was. That is working by the way.


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## Lou Cetrangelo (Nov 17, 2017)

Is there a difference between pairing and activation? Once the cablecard is activated does it also need to be paired?


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## Lou Cetrangelo (Nov 17, 2017)

I see now that Pairing and activation are the same thing. 

I was on the phone with Verizon Tech Support for 2 hours. They tried everything with the same results. They now are sending me a new cable card. If that doesn't work he asked me to contact TIVO support. 

One other question. Do I need a moca filter on the splitter where it connects to the ONT


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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

I haven't been to these forums for awhile and just happened to see this discussion.

When I have FIOS installed, i had a COAX cable lead installed to each room where I wanted to have TV. Initially, I had a STB in every room connected via COAX. I then discovered TiVo (Bolt/Bolt+)

Long story short, I started with a Bolt, then went to a Bolt+. Don't bother trying a DIY job to upgrade the hard drive.
I have one TiVo Bolt+ and two TiVo Minis connected via Coax. Three cables are coming out of each device: Power, HDMI and Coax. No Ethernet. It's unnecessary, as Coax will handle it. Therefore, use the MOCA option when setting it up.
For each COAX point of entry, I split my connection into two: TV/TiVo and either Router or Extender. For router, I have the G1100 Quantum FIOS Router. Originally, I had the one before that which supports a lesser version of MOCA, and I wanted a better speed out of it. Now, they have the G3100 which features an upgraded version of MOCA, however it's newer and I don't know how reliable it is in comparison. For Network extenders, I have two WCB6200Q devices. One is labeled Actiontec and the other is labeled Verizon. I'm not sure why. For whatever reason, the one labeled Verizon is more reliable and in fact, I just unplugged the other one and stopped relying on it.
PROBLEM: My Bolt+ Overheating - Buy a USB Laptop Cooler, plug it into the Bolt+. It would cool it down by about 5 degrees if I remember correctly - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NNMB3KS
PROBLEM: If my power went out, it would destroy the hard drive on my Bolt+. Finally, I bought a CyberPower 1500 VA UPS after losing three Bolt+ machines and having to pay whatever for replacement Bolt+ and losing existing recordings three times. Sorry I don't have the link for it, I could swear I ordered it on Amazon, though.
PROBLEM: My TiVo Bolt+ would work just fine, but the connection to the Minis was funky. I forgot the error message. Basically, I replaced all of my COAX Splitters with these: https://www.amazon.com/RCA-DH24SPF-Two-Way-Splitter/dp/B0018BQR84
PROBLEM: I couldn't see all of my channels in the guide, specifically Music Choice. By default for whatever reason, they are set not to display. Search around the menus to see if you can find a list of channels and check the appropriate ones so they will display.
Off the top of my head, those are all the problems I had. Now, your comment about getting "0" digital signal, I'm wondering about that. Are you currently using your MOCA connection at all? Is it even turned on? If I remember correctly, I believe Verizon (or in my case, Frontier) has the ability to turn on and off either the Enternet Port or the Coax port. I've never seen a connection signal "0", and that is literally just a guess.

Good luck!


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

Lou Cetrangelo said:


> I see now that Pairing and activation are the same thing.
> 
> I was on the phone with Verizon Tech Support for 2 hours. They tried everything with the same results. They now are sending me a new cable card. If that doesn't work he asked me to contact TIVO support.
> 
> One other question. Do I need a moca filter on the splitter where it connects to the ONT


i had Verizon (later became Frontier) FiOS from 2009 to 2011 when I lived in WA.

No, they aren't not the same. For ages, VZ didn't pair. The installer had to activate. VZ didn't have copy protection on for YEARS. Then, they suddenly decided to turn on CP for various random channels and I think more, causing what seemed like an outage on almost all my channels except the ones there were available OTA. (There are several threads of FiOS customers running into this.)

I literally had to take a day off from work and spend hours on the phone w/them to resolve this. Finally, we realized that they turned on CP but our cards weren't paired, causing all the whacky error messages, so we got them to pair the card. VZ support didn't seem to realize this at first, either.

No, I've never ever had ANY MoCA filters. Never needed them. I don't think I've ever seen one in my life.

Coax was run from the ONT. Comcast feed to apartment was disconnected and the coax from ONT was connected to my apartment's coax. One of those was plugged into the VZ provided gateway/router (has coax in for MoCA). Was a Westell 9100EM. Another coax out went straight into my TiVo HD.

If there were any filters installed, I wasn't aware of it. But, they the gateway was in a bedroom while the TiVo was in the living room.


JOSHSKORN said:


> PROBLEM: If my power went out, it would destroy the hard drive on my Bolt+. Finally, I bought a CyberPower 1500 VA UPS after losing three Bolt+ machines and having to pay whatever for replacement Bolt+ and losing existing recordings three times. Sorry I don't have the link for it, I could swear I ordered it on Amazon, though.


That's insane. I've never heard of that before. My Bolt+ is on a UPS but I've had it since April 2017. I sometimes have to unplug it to move it, do something on it or if the power outage is long enough that I have no more battery.

I still have recordings on my stock 3 TB drive that I transferred from my retired TiVo HD due to their 2017 "once in a lifetime" offer.

I do cool my Bolt+, formerly w/various laptop coolers and now two AC Infinity Multifans. One a 140 mm fan blowing into the CableCARD area and another a blower to pull air out the weak fan outlet. ODTs seems to stay below 50 C while watching TV even when it's warm (77+ F) in the room. ODT in the summer morning might be like low 42 or 43 C.


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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

cwerdna said:


> No, I've never ever had ANY MoCA filters. Never needed them.
> 
> That's insane. I've never heard of that before. My Bolt+ is on a UPS but I've had it since April 2017. I sometimes have to unplug it to move it, do something on it or if the power outage is long enough that I have no more battery.



MOCA Filter - I second this. No need for it. I can't remember what condition made it necessary to have one, but for my particular setup, I didn't need it.
Yep, whenever SoCal Edison would cut the power or someone ran into a powerbox and knocked out power to the neighborhood, it usually killed my Bolt+'s hard drive. I would get the notorious "4 flashing lights", which is also exactly what you get eventually when you attempt to replace the hard drive with something bigger. It might work at first, but eventually, it'll stop working.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

JOSHSKORN said:


> Yep, whenever SoCal Edison would cut the power or someone ran into a powerbox and knocked out power to the neighborhood, it usually killed my Bolt+'s hard drive. I would get the notorious "4 flashing lights", which is also exactly what you get eventually when you attempt to replace the hard drive with something bigger. It might work at first, but eventually, it'll stop working.


Crazy! (Assuming you were using a surge protector before) I wonder if you hit some sort of power surge that may not have been high enough for a surge protector to clamp it and it was sustained (e.g. for a few seconds or minutes before the outage). Ones I've seen often don't stop voltage unless it's somewhere above 300ish volts.

I'm looking at an APC P7T near me and it seems to let thru up to 400 volts per the label on the bottom.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Lou Cetrangelo said:


> I see now that Pairing and activation are the same thing.
> 
> I was on the phone with Verizon Tech Support for 2 hours. They tried everything with the same results. They now are sending me a new cable card. If that doesn't work he asked me to contact TIVO support.
> 
> One other question. Do I need a moca filter on the splitter where it connects to the ONT


There is a difference between activation and pairing. An activated card will allow cable channels to show. A paired card will allow copy-protected cable channels to show, like premiums and Fox cable channels.

To tell if a card is paired on Fios, go to channel 131 or something like Fox News. If you get video, it's paired.

No filter is necessary on a Fios connection.

For your problem specifically, I suppose it would be a good idea to be absolutely sure the coax going to the Bolt is connected properly to the splitters and coax leading to the ONT, and yes is may just be a bad card too.


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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> For your problem specifically, I suppose it would be a good idea to be absolutely sure the coax going to the Bolt is connected properly to the splitters and coax leading to the ONT, and yes is may just be a bad card too.


That or even a bad cable is possible. I don't know enough about coax cables, if there is such thing as an incorrect coax cable (if they're rated differently etc.).


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## dslunceford (Oct 19, 2000)

FWIW you may need to ask them to "Manually Revalidate the CableCard". Should be no more than a 10 min call: Hbo don't work on fios


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## Lou Cetrangelo (Nov 17, 2017)

Using diagram #2, I got it all working except there are some pixilated lines across many channels. Especially most of the HD channels. A service tech is coming on Saturday to check it out. 

I'm using the new cable card but I don't think there was anything wrong with the first one. I started moving cables around trying different setups and very slowly I started to see a real poor image. After a while it improved. Before that TIVO tech support said the card was activated but not yet paired. She said wait an hour or so. I actually waited overnight.

It seams strange that when. I ran a new coax on the floor between the splitter in the garage and the bolt it was much worse. Running this cable directly from the ont to the bolt (bypassing the splitter in the garage) none of the channels worked. It almost seams like the signal is too strong.


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## lhvetinari (Jun 24, 2019)

Lou Cetrangelo said:


> Using diagram #2, I got it all working except there are some pixilated lines across many channels. Especially most of the HD channels. A service tech is coming on Saturday to check it out.
> 
> I'm using the new cable card but I don't think there was anything wrong with the first one. I started moving cables around trying different setups and very slowly I started to see a real poor image. After a while it improved. Before that TIVO tech support said the card was activated but not yet paired. She said wait an hour or so. I actually waited overnight.
> 
> It seams strange that when. I ran a new coax on the floor between the splitter in the garage and the bolt it was much worse. Running this cable directly from the ont to the bolt (bypassing the splitter in the garage) none of the channels worked. It almost seams like the signal is too strong.


A poor signal will also prevent the cablecard from locking an OOB channel for communication, so that could explain your activation problems. Good call on sending a tech out.


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## Lou Cetrangelo (Nov 17, 2017)

lhvetinari said:


> A poor signal will also prevent the cablecard from locking an OOB channel for communication, so that could explain your activation problems. Good call on sending a tech out.


Thanks Ihvetinari and others that helped. I'm amazed that my TIVO setup would actually work with just a cablecard. Hopefully the tech will resolve the issue.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Fios does produce a hot signal. Usually it's not a problem anymore but some folks have added attenuators to the coax (or use additonal splitters), just enough to get the signal strength below 100% and an SNR of ~36. That was the voodoo magic we went with, anyway. That could help too. Or the tech can do it if that ends up being the problem.


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## Lou Cetrangelo (Nov 17, 2017)

Thanks Jim. I dont have an attenuator on hand but i could add a 2 way splitter on the line coming out of the ONT with a terminator on the open port.


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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

I'm curious if you were ever set up with a DVR from Verizon and how the picture quality with it, was, initially. I initially went from Verizon boxes to TiVo, and with one exception, that being that I had the wrong splitters at the time (long story short, I went from FiOS to DirecTV back to FiOS, DirecTV replaced some splitters and I needed to replace those and add more), I never had any problems with image quality. I think I had to force my Bolt+ and TiVo Minis to show a picture in 1080p, though rather than 720p.

Do you have a Verizon DVR onhand you can test? I'm wondering if the tech might bring one. Sometimes, they can take several minutes to update before showing a picture.


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## Lou Cetrangelo (Nov 17, 2017)

I don't have a verizon dvr to try but I am thinking the signal is too high. On the effected channels it is almost unwatchable. 

I just connected two additional splitters in line with the output of the ont. They are - 3.5 db loss each. Then it goes into a 3 way splitter to the bolt and 2 minis. The port that the bolt is on is - 7db. 

The picture is not perfect but it is much much better.


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## DeltaOne (Sep 29, 2013)

Lou Cetrangelo said:


> I just connected two additional splitters in line with the output of the ont. They are - 3.5 db loss each. Then it goes into a 3 way splitter to the bolt and 2 minis. The port that the bolt is on is - 7db.


Have you checked the signal level on your TiVo's diagnostic page?

I like to put each tuner on a different channel, using the six channels we most often watch. Then visit the TiVo's diagnostic page and noting the signal strength and dB level. TiVo will tell you 35 dB is perfect. I most often note signal strength and dB. You don't want signal strength to be above 100% since that can mean 105, 110...who knows.

I run a -12 dB attenuator to reduce my Comcast signal to around 90 to 98%. And sometimes, from season to season, I have to make slight adjustments to keep the signal at 90 to 98%.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Verizon FiOS is known to run a hot signal, so if you have a weak wiring setup it won't show as quickly, but if you have a solid well designed wiring setup you may need to attenuate the signal a bit to make the Tivo's happy.


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## Lou Cetrangelo (Nov 17, 2017)

I get 73 on the signal strength meter. It is the same on all channels.

I have 4 tunets in my bolt I think I saw that it was testing on channel 0. How do you change to a different tuner?


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## DeltaOne (Sep 29, 2013)

Lou Cetrangelo said:


> I get 73 on the signal strength meter. It is the same on all channels. I have 4 tunets in my bolt I think I saw that it was testing on channel 0. How do you change to a different tuner?


That wasn't channel 0, it was tuner 0. Scroll down...the diagnostic's page lists all the tuners in order, from 0 to 5. Or, if you have 4 tuners, from 0 to 3. Each section begins with "Tuner #" and as you scroll down you'll the channel the tuner is on, its signal strength and dB value. Plus lots more...but you can ignore the other stuff.

Look for each tuners signal strength and dB rating. While TiVo says dB rating of 35 is perfect, I primarily go by the signal strength. Either/or...on a hotter signal the signal strength/dB will both rise. On a weaker signal they both will go down.

Wait...wait...is this an OTA or cable card TiVo? I ask because I believe there's a bug in the OTA TiVo that reports all channels as 72...or no higher than 72...I'm not sure. But if this is a cable card equipped TiVo then the signal strength reported on the diagnostics page does work and gives you valid numbers.

If this is a cable card equipped TiVo, and your signal strength is 73 -- your signal is way too low.


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## jay_man2 (Sep 15, 2003)

Lou Cetrangelo said:


> I get 73 on the signal strength meter. It is the same on all channels.
> 
> I have 4 tunets in my bolt I think I saw that it was testing on channel 0. How do you change to a different tuner?


I hit the "Live TV" button on the remote to cycle through the tuners.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

DeltaOne said:


> Wait...wait...is this an OTA or cable card TiVo? I ask because I believe there's a bug in the OTA TiVo that reports all channels as 72...or no higher than 72...I'm not sure. But if this is a cable card equipped TiVo then the signal strength reported on the diagnostics page does work and gives you valid numbers.
> If this is a cable card equipped TiVo, and your signal strength is 73 -- your signal is way too low.


The Signal number of 72 is normal for all OTA TiVo since Series 5. It's the AGC circuit taking over. On cable, the number would be 90. It's not a bug, just TiVo. To get a different number use a Plus, Pro or Premiere. My TV also has a diagnostic display which shows 82% on the same cable feed as two basic Roamio boxes. All show a SNR of 36dB.

I noticed that Peak is still 0 on that channel display.


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## Lou Cetrangelo (Nov 17, 2017)

It turns out that the problem is in my TIVO Bolt.

The verizon tech came early today
He was very good an knowledgeable about my TIVO setup. In fact he has a Romeo in his own home. He tested the frequencies of the channels that were comming in poor. His meter was showing they were right to specs. To double check that his meter was not giving false information he installed a verizon box in place of my bolt. It ran perfectly. I arranged to have him leave in in place until my Bolt is fixed.

Luckily when I bought it I also got the 3 year extended warranty. This is something I never do but I figured that since I paid for a lifetime guide service. I should protect my investment. I'm actually in warranty till Nov 2020.

I'll give service a call on Monday.

Thanks.


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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

Lou Cetrangelo said:


> It turns out that the problem is in my TIVO Bolt.


That's interesting. That's never happened to me. Where did you get yours? Mine was from Amazon, bought new.


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## Lou Cetrangelo (Nov 17, 2017)

I got mine new direct from TIVO on black friday 2017.

Up untill a few days ago it was always connected to an OTA antenna.


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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

Lou Cetrangelo said:


> I got mine new direct from TIVO on black friday 2017.
> 
> Up untill a few days ago it was always connected to an OTA antenna.


I don't quite understand what all that means. Do you mean like no cable service, just regular free TV from like a roof antenna? How would you even connect it to that, with a coax?


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## Lou Cetrangelo (Nov 17, 2017)

JOSHSKORN said:


> I don't quite understand what all that means. Do you mean like no cable service, just regular free TV from like a roof antenna? How would you even connect it to that, with a coax?


My TIVO Bolt is able to connect to a TV antenna using coax cable or cable TV using the same coax connector on the back.

TV antennas are designed to connect to two screw terminals that could be used with the two conductor flat cable but all modern setups use a coax balun like the one here to convert to coax.


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## Lou Cetrangelo (Nov 17, 2017)

By the way yesterday I called TIVO to send the Bolt back for warranty repair. I thought I could just describe what happened and how substituting my box for the FIOS box would be enough. The tech had me going through the process of reconnecting my TIVO and recording the bad channels. When I connected it up the picture was nearly perfect on all channels. After a while there was very minor pixilation on a hand full of channels but after going through the diagnostic menus they said there is nothing wrong with the box and it was FIOS fault. I had to insist in the strongest terms that FIOS tested the signal and it was perfectly up to their specs. After a lot of back and forth they agreed to do an advance replacement. 

I left it connected and after two hours it was back to the same effect. It must be related to something that is failing when it gets warm and yes the fan is working.


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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

Lou Cetrangelo said:


> By the way yesterday I called TIVO to send the Bolt back for warranty repair. I thought I could just describe what happened and how substituting my box for the FIOS box would be enough. The tech had me going through the process of reconnecting my TIVO and recording the bad channels. When I connected it up the picture was nearly perfect on all channels. After a while there was very minor pixilation on a hand full of channels but after going through the diagnostic menus they said there is nothing wrong with the box and it was FIOS fault. I had to insist in the strongest terms that FIOS tested the signal and it was perfectly up to their specs. After a lot of back and forth they agreed to do an advance replacement.
> 
> I left it connected and after two hours it was back to the same effect. It must be related to something that is failing when it gets warm and yes the fan is working.


Did you get your replacement yet?


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## Lou Cetrangelo (Nov 17, 2017)

Hi guys 

Sorry I forgot to give you an update. I received my advance replacement in two days. It works perfectly. There was probably nothing wrong with my antenna reception after all. It was the tivo tuners or something that is comon to cable and ota.

I'm enjoying all the new channels and its only a few bucks more then internet only so ill probably keep it. The only hardware i'm renting from Verizon is the one cable card for full dvr access to three TV's.


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