# My shows sort changing every day to "by date".



## steneni (Sep 18, 2011)

I've noticed since the recent update to 20.6.3.RC7 that my shows are being changed to sort by date on a daily basis. I like my shows to be sorted by name in the main panel and by episode in each folder. What is happening now is that the Tivo is resetting my sort criteria back to by date for the main panel and each folder daily. Anybody else seeing this?


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

This has happened due to the recent updates. I've seen it, but not _daily _as you indicate.


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## steneni (Sep 18, 2011)

I hope Tivo fix this pronto, very annoying bug. Its happening to my Roamio Pro and an older Premier XL4 (both upgraded).


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Part of the bug too is that if you have preference set to Hide 3rd column that TiVo will eventually "forget" the setting and revert back to 3 column mode. These preferences get reset at least on every TiVo boot or even an HDUI reset (Thumbs Down, Thumbs Up, Play, Play), but anecdotal evidence suggests it may not even take a reboot or HDUI reset to happen.

Seems almost inconceivable that beta testing could not catch this, especially as beta testing often involves reboots and/or HDUI resets at least early on in the process. So seems like TiVo didn't think this was a big deal to go ahead and release this way anyway, as it seems highly unlikely nobody in beta testing would catch something obvious like this.


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## tampa8 (Jan 26, 2016)

steneni said:


> I've noticed since the recent update to 20.6.3.RC7 that my shows are being changed to sort by date on a daily basis. I like my shows to be sorted by name in the main panel and by episode in each folder. What is happening now is that the Tivo is resetting my sort criteria back to by date for the main panel and each folder daily. Anybody else seeing this?


I noticed it a couple of times, not nearly everyday however for me.


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## steneni (Sep 18, 2011)

Today my box has not reverted back my chosen sort criteria for the first time since I noticed this issue. I'll keep checking and post further updates if it starts again. I didn't do anything and the software version remains unchanged (20.6.3.RC7).


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## sakaike (Jan 22, 2002)

tampa8 said:


> I noticed it a couple of times, not nearly everyday however for me.


I'm somewhere in the middle. Both the date sort and third column have appeared numerous times since the latest update, but I don't think I would say it has happened every day.

I also don't think any of my recurrences have been after a reboot or HDUI reset (which is a trick I have never done). At this point, it's just a total mystery and annoyance that I hope is addressed someday (especially since others report similar behavior), but of course, we'll live with it in the meantime (as if we had a choice)...


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## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

My Roamio basic is doing this also. Not sure if it had been doing it daily before or not but it seems like I changed it yesterday and it was switched back again today. The bugs just keep on coming with these recent updates. I wish there was a way to delay getting updates until they mature a bit more.


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## NSPhillips (May 31, 2007)

I have seen it regularly with my Roamio and Minis. 

I think it corresponds to reboots. My Mini is constantly crashing and rebooting. (an unrelated issue, I assume.)


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

It's not just reboots, I've seen it happen without them after the 20.6.3 update. It may be because the HDUI is resetting.


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## pgoelz (May 1, 2005)

Pretty much ditto for me as well on a Roamio basic. Not sure if it is related to reboots... I HAVE been rebooting (intentionally) and until reading this thread I didn't connect the reboots with the sort order change. But it makes sense. I think I'm done rebooting for a while so I'll keep an eye on it and see if the sort order reverts without a reboot. 

Paul


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## steneni (Sep 18, 2011)

My preferred sort criteria was only saved for 9 days on both my Roamio and Premier boxes. Once again this morning I saw it all unseat to Tivo default. I fixed it and then forced a reboot on the Roamio from the setting menu. Went back to Tivo default - NOT GOOD TIVO! Software still 20.3.6.RC7.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

My Roamio Pro did NOT reboot but reverted back to 3 column mode for My Shows this morning. TiVo has a lot of crap to fix for next release - starting with undoing most of the changes made that got us to this terrible 20.6.3 version.


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## SASouth (Jun 5, 2004)

Mine reverted yesterday and again today. I think it's been at least four times this week. Multiply this by the three TiVos that I have and it gets even more annoying.

Combine this with the crappy Rovi guide data and wishlists that no longer work and I'm getting to the point where I'm startin to consider dumping TiVo altogether. TiVo fix this!


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Now I have to reboot my TiVo to fix Tuning Adapter activity light being permanently on - another wonderful gift of 20.6.3 software...


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Put your Minis in standby, I'm seeing the same thing now with mine after the update. Minis are starting to tie up the tuners.

This is a major bug IMO, not that Tivo really cares.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

moyekj said:


> My Roamio Pro did NOT reboot but reverted back to 3 column mode for My Shows this morning. TiVo has a lot of crap to fix for next release - starting with undoing most of the changes made that got us to this terrible 20.6.3 version.


Happens to mine every day.

In an earlier post you said that it was inconceivable that this wasn't caught in testing. AFAICT, it's been years since they tested much of anything.


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## leesweet (Mar 13, 2004)

Roaming and Minis, revert to date listing daily. Definitely need this fixed ASAP.


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## philt56 (Aug 22, 2008)

I always have the left column hidden on My Shows and it has been turning it back on for the last several nites on both of my Roamios.


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## senorgregster (Nov 12, 2005)

Mine are reverting to date as well.


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## SASouth (Jun 5, 2004)

philt56 said:


> I always have the left column hidden on My Shows and it has been turning it back on for the last several nites on both of my Roamios.


This.

It's really annoying.


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## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

I was assuming my kids or wife were hitting the B button.


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## dcpmark (Feb 8, 2006)

Same thing happening for me. Roamio Pro and 3 Minis.


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## jazzy01 (Apr 11, 2007)

Me too same problem on my Roamio Plus and 2 minis  Hope this new qlitch is addressed sooner than later.


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## jeff92k7 (Jan 18, 2006)

Add me to the list of people experiencing this daily. Three tivos, three times the annoyance.


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## rlcarr (Jan 18, 2003)

My Roamio Pro is also having this happen daily (along with the left-hand column coming back daily).


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## miker408 (Aug 21, 2014)

My Roamio HD, Roamio OTA and mini have the same problem, also my mini no longer goes to standby, when I turn TV on I have video and sound.


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## steneni (Sep 18, 2011)

My sort criteria on both boxes reverted back to default again!!! This time my preferred config was saved for 12 days on both my Roamio and Premier boxes. I fixed it and then forced a reboot on the Roamio from the setting menu. Went back to Tivo default - NOT GOOD TIVO! Software still 20.3.6.RC7. Tivo, Tivo, Tivo...why don't you care?????


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## w1ntermute0 (Dec 10, 2008)

Happening to my Roamio also. Very annoying. Is there a good way to let Tivo know that there are a large number of us this is affecting? Complaining to each other is nice but...


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Call TiVo? Tweet to TiVo? I'm sure they know it's an issue.


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## steneni (Sep 18, 2011)

Since latest upgrade to 20.3.6.RC15 3 days ago, my boxes are now reverting to non sorted default once again - on a daily basis. Well done Tivo you've made it WORSE! Must have terrific in house QA and CM management for your releases. Keep up the good work (not)!


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Complain on Twitter and Facebook. They already know about the issue btw.


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## steneni (Sep 18, 2011)

Adding similar case - Hiding left column after saving keeps coming back.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

Happening every day now. No reboots here, but it seems every time the box calls Mom, the sort order is reset.

Between this and the 'Dolby Digital reverting to PCM' problem, the box seems to get dumber by the week.


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## kagacins (Feb 19, 2009)

I wouldn't say for me that forgetting my preferred sort order is happening every day, but sometimes it happens every day, sometimes it happens every couple of days. It also forgets all my preferred sort orders in my folders, which is especially annoying. It really is ridiculous. I've been in contact with @TivoSupport on Twitter (regarding this and how BAD One Pass has become - it doesn't identify TONS of episodes as available through my various streaming services), and they told me to restart my TiVo. Thanks guys (and gals)! Very helpful! I've never used a computer before. Well, I did find with a reboot it held onto my sort order for a little longer than usual, but eventually the same problem cropped up again. I again bothered them on Twitter and said that nothing had been fixed, and they basically ignored (chose not to respond) to my plea to push out a tiny patch to fix the sort order issue.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

TiVo support has degraded in recent months to _"Have you tried reinstalling Windows?"_, which was the solution from offshore call centers to every computer issue on Windows for a decade.


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

It is perplexing why they choose to leave this broken for so long, when it seems like such a very small simple thing to fix. There have been several software releases since it first became broken, and none of them fixed it.

I can think of two possibilities: 1) it is not as simple as it appears and they can't figure out why it is not working, or 2) they purposely broke it and do not intend to fix it. (or 3 Rovi is in charge now and their corporate mission statement is to do everything half-assed.)


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

For the last decade or two, every corporate merger/takeover was handled by accountants once it was a done deal, and the first thing accountants ask is "Who is not contributing to the bottom line?"

The two departments at the top of that list are always support, and coders _*not *_working on the next generation of stuff. The slashing and burning starts there because the main thing in corporate accounting that goes *directly *to the bottom line is salaries.

I don't know who has benefited so far from the Rovi takeover, but based on literally thousands of posts on tivocommunity.com, it sure as hell hasn't been the product's end users.

I suspect an awful lot of boxes have been sold in the past based on word of mouth from satisfied users, but that model can't be sustained if you make your current users angry by being incompetent. I'm responsible for at least two dozen people trying and using TiVo over the last few years, and I have stopped recommending it to anyone (for now, at least).


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

I think the reason it hasn't been been fixed is because it isn't happening to everyone and they can't figure out the problem. I've yet to see it on my Roamio outside of a reboot.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

kagacins said:


> It also forgets all my preferred sort orders in my folders, which is especially annoying.


Yeah, this is a real pain in the a**. It keeps reverting to showing me streaming episodes, when I only want it to display my recordings.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

It used to survive a reboot, now it reverts to default state with the daily connection. My Roamio Pro had rebooted many times in the first couple of years of ownership without resetting the sort order inside folders.

Outside folders, in the main list, it sorts to newest at the top, always, which is what I want it to do. It's inside folders where it resets.

Perhaps it has to do with sort order inside folders. What is your sort order? Mine is oldest show at the top so it defaults to selecting the next show in the series when the folder opens. When it resets daily, it resets to oldest show at the bottom.

To be clear, this is not a life or death issue, it's just very annoying.​


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

dougdingle said:


> It used to survive a reboot, now it reverts to default state with the daily connection. My Roamio Pro had rebooted many times in the first couple of years of ownership without resetting the sort order inside folders.
> 
> Outside folders, in the main list, it sorts to newest at the top, always, which is what I want it to do. It's inside folders where it resets.
> 
> ...


I use "sort (newest)" inside folders.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

Perhaps that's why you're not seeing the issue. Your sort is the one to which my sorts return when the problem manifests itself. 

Try "sort (oldest)" in one folder, and see if it stays that way.


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## Megamind (Feb 18, 2013)

I've logged complaints on TiVo.com and also directly with Margret via twitter on this issue. TiVo support closed my case with barely more than a Thank You back in December. And Margret's more recent response suggested she was only vaguely aware of the issue, if even that, and that she not only didn't know what was causing the problem, but whether a fix was forthcoming. As someone said, not life or death, but very frustrating.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

dougdingle said:


> Perhaps that's why you're not seeing the issue. Your sort is the one to which my sorts return when the problem manifests itself.
> 
> Try "sort (oldest)" in one folder, and see if it stays that way.


There is no "(oldest)" option. 
The three I have are "date," "newest," and " season." 
"Date" is the default.


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## sbillard (Sep 17, 2014)

cherry ghost said:


> I think the reason it hasn't been been fixed is because it isn't happening to everyone and they can't figure out the problem. I've yet to see it on my Roamio outside of a reboot.


Well then I guess my Roamio must be rebooting all the time since this keeps happening to me. One strange thing, though, the sort order of my streaming shows does not get changed.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

sbillard said:


> Well then I guess my Roamio must be rebooting all the time since this keeps happening to me. One strange thing, though, the sort order of my streaming shows does not get changed.


A restart is not needed. You can tell if a restart has happened easily. First, all tuners will be on the same channel. Second, in TiVo box Diagnostics, the Time Since OOB Tune Start will be small. That's a seconds counter of run time.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

cherry ghost said:


> There is no "(oldest)" option.
> The three I have are "date," "newest," and " season."
> "Date" is the default.


Right, my mistake.

I use "season" (which gives you the oldest shows at the top), which reverts to the default "date" sort as soon as the box connects daily to TiVo's servers.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

So as an experiment, I set both the Roamio and a Mini to sort the same folder by "season", then rebooted the Mini. It came back sorted by "date".

It seems pretty clear that the state of folder sorts is no longer being stored correctly (or at all). It did work fine for a couple of years, but now it's broken.


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## delgadobb (Mar 6, 2004)

dougdingle said:


> For the last decade or two, every corporate merger/takeover was handled by accountants once it was a done deal, and the first thing accountants ask is "Who is not contributing to the bottom line?"
> 
> The two departments at the top of that list are always support, and coders _*not *_working on the next generation of stuff. The slashing and burning starts there because the main thing in corporate accounting that goes *directly *to the bottom line is salaries.
> 
> ...


This.

Usually during mergers/takeovers they start spouting stuff like 'operational efficiencies' & 'streamlining market effectiveness'. Here in Las Vegas MGM properties have started charging for parking to 'improve the customer parking experience'. Uhh, yeah. I get it, you're using buzzwords to try to improve investor confidence & that might work for a while. When you start bleeding customers, the market will notice. Ironically, what might help the situation is not lagging Tivo sales but lack of corporate sales & partnerships. If the data is bad enough & (corporate) customers notice, maybe it will cost Rovi larger scale deals. I get the impression they're milking the cash cow with Tivo & new box sales are relatively trivial noise as far as they're concerned. Rovi is a grade 'C' or 'D' student, doing just enough to get by ... they want to be the star quarterback & schoolwork is just an inconvenience.

I have also gotten at least two dozen people on board with Tivo; like you, I have stopped recommending Tivo to others. This will cost Rovi sales in the long term, but I'm not sure they are aware of it. A corporate level Tivo employee has repeatedly stressed to me that they've been built by word-of-mouth advertising - pretty sure that's not happening too much these days.

It's funny, Tivo recently sent me a customer satisfaction survey so I used the sounding board & wrote almost exactly what you did above as the reason WHY I wouldn't recommend Tivo to another. It was couched from a slightly different perspective. I stressed that it seems like the Rovi mantra is to 'do just enough to get by' & that they've lost my word-of-mouth advertising along with a lot of others. From their perspective, I posed the question how they expect to grow the company if there isn't consumer confidence? You can only do spin control for so long ...


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## kagacins (Feb 19, 2009)

I first contacted Tivo about this on December 16th, and again yesterday. Here is the progress they've made in those two months. Sorting is hard.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

Pathetic.

It's not even the sorting - it's saving the state of the desired sort order in the folder data in two binary bytes (there are three options) or one hex byte, then checking it and loading that order when the folder is opened. They're loading _*some *_default order, so it's not like they aren't already doing a sort on date.

Such a small issue to fix, would take a competent programmer about 15 minutes tops to figure out why it stopped working and generate a patch.

Pathetic.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

dougdingle said:


> Pathetic.
> 
> It's not even the sorting - it's saving the state of the desired sort order in the folder data in two binary bytes (there are three options) or one hex byte, then checking it and loading that order when the folder is opened. They're loading _*some *_default order, so it's not like they aren't already doing a sort on date.
> 
> ...


I think TiVo needs a bug-clearing month effort.


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## looter (Jun 18, 2003)

At least I have this sort problem coupled with only getting OTA guide data on my Series4 by forcing a manual connection. 

Log says connection has been made but I only get guide data by forcing a connection. Using Series4 without cable.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

Don't know about anyone else, but on my Roamio Pro it seems it now remembers the sort order I set in every folder.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

dougdingle said:


> Don't know about anyone else, but on my Roamio Pro it seems it now remembers the sort order I set in every folder.


Did you get the 20.7.1 update?

Scott


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

Yes, but my impression was that the problem was actually fixed a few days before the update arrived two days ago.

I just checked, and my sort order (by seasons) continues to be recognized in dozens of folders, as it has been for about a week. A week ago, it would revert to default sort overnight every night.


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## steneni (Sep 18, 2011)

I received the 20.7.1 upgrade a few days ago and can confirm this issue is fixed, thanks Tivo, bravo! I've done several manual reboots since the upgrade and the box no longer reverts to Tivo defaults.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

Although they have not gotten updates, I can confirm my Minis, which seem to store folder sort order internally - instead of following the Roamio's sort order - also now retain their settings, and have for several days now.

I am now more certain that there was a "silent update" before 20.7.1 rolled out that fixed this issue, since it's also fixed on the Minis which haven't gotten new firmware.

I'm just pleased it's fixed.


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