# Too bad you couldn't buy a "bare bones" tivo roamio directly from TiVo.



## Rebate_King (Nov 10, 2004)

Now that you can just drop in a new drive, too bad TiVo didn't have options for consumers to buy units without hard drives. 

I've upgraded dozens of tivo boxes in the past and not once have I ever had to use the old drive that I pulled out. It just sat on a shelf and then was evently discarded. Waste of money.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

They would have to enclose the power supply. 

Now in the future they could do something like a hot swap bay so it was plug and play with a locking mechanism similar to a NAS. 

The loss of a drive would cut down on their costs, but it would also cut down on their profits depending on how much of a price cut it offered.


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## cr33p (Jan 2, 2005)

It would also potentially be a support nightmare. End users mistakenly installing different drives that may or not be intended for DVR use. However for enthusiast's it would be ideal


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

innocentfreak said:


> They would have to enclose the power supply.
> 
> Now in the future they could do something like a hot swap bay so it was plug and play with a locking mechanism similar to a NAS.
> 
> The loss of a drive would cut down on their costs, but it would also cut down on their profits depending on how much of a price cut it offered.


When was the last time you saw Dell or HP offer a computer without any hard drive.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

lessd said:


> When was the last time you saw Dell or HP offer a computer without any hard drive.


You can't compare the two. Dell and HP can't offer a computer without unless they sell the OS separately also. At which point why would you buy it since you would have to buy the OS?

But if you want to...HP Proliant Server. This is what most are now using to build small WHS.

Since TiVo now installs the OS or at least enough to install any drive, they could in the future sell a model without just like you can buy just about any brand NAS without drives, just like Sony introduced a PS3 with 12GB of flash built in for the OS for $199 and you install your own hard drive for save games and downloads, just like the 360 was originally sold as a model without a drive, etc.


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## TC25D (Aug 21, 2013)

Rebate_King said:


> Now that you can just drop in a new drive, too bad TiVo didn't have options for consumers to buy units without hard drives.


Why would TiVo build something a miniscule percentage of their potential customers would want? Not a smart business decision for them.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

TC25D said:


> Why would TiVo build something a miniscule percentage of their potential customers would want? Not a smart business decision for them.


If the Pro is designed primarily for high end home theater installers, it actually makes some sense since they wouldn't have to buy the 3TB drives. They would have a list of supported drives the installers themselves would add.

I don't think the Pro is designed to be the top seller. I agree on the base model it doesn't make a lot of sense.


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## TC25D (Aug 21, 2013)

innocentfreak said:


> If the Pro is designed primarily for high end home theater installers, it actually makes some sense since they wouldn't have to buy the 3TB drives. They would have a list of supported drives the installers themselves would add.


Who said it was designed for installers?


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Nice idea, but impractical for TiVo for a whole host of reasons. Maybe they have some sort of wholesale options for resellers like weakness to buy disk-less drives, but it would be a support disaster at retail.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

It will never happen. TiVo would have to change their TOS and omit the part that mentions opening the box voids the warranty.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

steve614 said:


> It will never happen. TiVo would have to change their TOS and omit the part that mentions opening the box voids the warranty.


Altough at least on the base Roamio there wouldn't be any risk of a user coming into contact with 120 v; since it's got the external power brick.

I still don't think they'd do it, but at least there's one less risk to opening the case for that unit. (But then if they offered it on the base you'd have people complaining that they couldn't get a diskless Plus/Pro)


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## Millionaire2K (Jun 16, 2008)

If TiVo was smart they would NOT allow the drive to be upgraded.


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## Kolenka (Jan 2, 2013)

Millionaire2K said:


> If TiVo was smart they would NOT allow the drive to be upgraded.


How so? What makes that move smart?


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

jfh3 said:


> Nice idea, but impractical for TiVo for a whole host of reasons. Maybe they have some sort of wholesale options for resellers like weakness to buy disk-less drives, but it would be a support disaster at retail.


It would only be direct from TiVo. This way you knew only advanced users would buy it.


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## Millionaire2K (Jun 16, 2008)

Kolenka said:


> How so? What makes that move smart?


I don't know. Everyone else came up with crazy ideas. I figured my idea of keeping tight control over the echo system would help Tivo. Kinda how Apple has started to not allow you to upgrade their computers.


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## Kolenka (Jan 2, 2013)

Millionaire2K said:


> I don't know. Everyone else came up with crazy ideas. I figured my idea of keeping tight control over the echo system would help Tivo. Kinda how Apple has started to not allow you to upgrade their computers.


I hardly think keeping a tight control over the ecosystem would require them to lock down the hard drives. They are, for the most part, interchangeable parts. Sony for example, does a pretty good job letting folks replace drives in the PS3, despite having a heavily DRM'd ecosystem similar to the type content owners want to be able to enforce with DVRs. The main benefit to locking down the drives is support costs, or if you can gain some benefit by doing something non standard (speed via a PCIe SSD for example).

And Apple's move towards less upgradable computers has more to do with their priorities in their products than anything else. It says that they value weight and battery life over upgradability or having the top-of-the-line specs. And it doesn't really help them a ton when it means warranty repairs are more costly to them, and require more training in their techs. But to make the devices lighter and smaller while keeping the same battery life, they have to make room for the battery while the chassis shrinks. The easiest things to kick out are all the casing and connectors that make parts replaceable. It all adds up fairly quickly. Now if we want to talk about the App Store, that is definitely Apple trying to control their ecosystem. But is a separate issue from upgradable hardware. You can have one without the other.

It isn't the "right" approach. I'm fairly neutral on it, I see it as different rather than better or worse. It depends on your own priorities when it comes to these things. It isn't the only approach that works either.


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## Millionaire2K (Jun 16, 2008)

Kolenka said:


> I hardly think keeping a tight control over the ecosystem would require them to lock down the hard drives. They are, for the most part, interchangeable parts. Sony for example, does a pretty good job letting folks replace drives in the PS3, despite having a heavily DRM'd ecosystem similar to the type content owners want to be able to enforce with DVRs. The main benefit to locking down the drives is support costs, or if you can gain some benefit by doing something non standard (speed via a PCIe SSD for example).
> 
> And Apple's move towards less upgradable computers has more to do with their priorities in their products than anything else. It says that they value weight and battery life over upgradability or having the top-of-the-line specs. And it doesn't really help them a ton when it means warranty repairs are more costly to them, and require more training in their techs. But to make the devices lighter and smaller while keeping the same battery life, they have to make room for the battery while the chassis shrinks. The easiest things to kick out are all the casing and connectors that make parts replaceable. It all adds up fairly quickly. Now if we want to talk about the App Store, that is definitely Apple trying to control their ecosystem. But is a separate issue from upgradable hardware. You can have one without the other.
> 
> It isn't the "right" approach. I'm fairly neutral on it, I see it as different rather than better or worse. It depends on your own priorities when it comes to these things. It isn't the only approach that works either.


lol. I agree with this 100 percent. You spent the time to post what I was to lazy and unable to say... Thanks. :up:


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