# The "PR Nightmare" over rip-off pricing begins



## Emacee (Dec 15, 2000)

As predicted (TIVO changes its Service Plan business model -- again...) Tivo's "bait and switch" $99 discount is already attracting media attention. The Washington Post (those nice folks who brought down Tricky Dick) issued a consumer alert this morning:
*TiVo's new $99 and 'free' deals are no deal at all*

You can now buy a TiVo digital video recorder for just $99 and change. Please don't​. 
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fasterforward/2010/11/tivo_holiday_discount_warning.html

Tivo must be taking lessons in marketing from the cell phone carriers.

Tivo: Love the product, hate the company.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Tivo has more risk selling the box at $99, because if the buyer defaults and doesn't complete the 1 year agreement, then Tivo loses money. This option has to be more expensive.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Lots of discussion about this in several other threads, just as there was with the previous offers like this one. 

I agree knowing what was going to happen to your rate after the time commitment is key. However if there is no way to lower the $19.95 rate after either the 1 or 2 year time commitment why wouldn't people just cancel the service on the boxes and get new ones? 

Thanks,


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

If Tivo ties the $19.99/month rate to the box after the 1 yr commitment without spelling it out in the fine print, that will be very bad.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

What's to prevent the buyer from getting lifetime service on a $99 Tivo?


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## SMWinnie (Aug 17, 2002)

mr.unnatural said:


> What's to prevent the buyer from getting lifetime service on a $99 Tivo?


Well, literally, TiVo.

The new terms state that they won't sell you service for the box except on the $240/first year basis. (The CSRs are still inconsistent as to whether you can move to a different price plan after the first year.)


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## SMWinnie (Aug 17, 2002)

shwru980r said:


> If Tivo ties the $19.99/month rate to the box after the 1 yr commitment without spelling it out in *Gigantic Letters*, that will be very bad.


The above edit aside, "word," "this," "+1" and so on.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

The guy from the Washington Post said it was in communication with TiVo that the declares the 19.95 rate is on the TiVo DVR forever. He does not publish the communication.

I think this is all a snafu over people making simple things hard.

I bet the deal is = do the 1 year deal at 19.95. If at the end of that year the customer does nothing - they get billed at 19.95 a month and likely end up in a new 1 year commitment.
Now at the end of the first year - either select an appropriate plan like MSD if allowed to be the follow on plan
or cancel service - and then activate an "old" TiVo at whatever plan the account allows for.

I am simply not buying that TiVo or anyone thinks 19.95 for ever is the new price. It would simply be unsustainable as a business model - even if deception is used to lure in a few unlucky souls


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I am simply not buying that TiVo or anyone thinks 19.95 for ever is the new price. It would simply be unsustainable as a business model - even if deception is used to lure in a few unlucky souls


Hi, you must me new here... 

I'm interpreting the new subscription data to say that you pay $19.95 forever, if you buy the box at $99.99. But there are ways to buy the box at a price other than $99.99, either without a $200 instant discount or (as some observe) by paying some price other than $99.99.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I thought that that was what the terms said though. I know everyone questioned what would happen at the end of the 2 years on the $0 +$19.99 per month promotion. While we believe you will be able to cancel and reactivate at the regular plans, no one knows for sure and won't for 2 years.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

The terms now say the $19.95 rate continues month-to-month after the committment period. Maybe you will be able to get a $12.95 rate with an additional 1-year minimum commitment (as is the case now, I believe), but it's not clear.


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## belunos (Sep 19, 2002)

pdhenry said:


> The terms now say the $19.95 rate continues month-to-month after the committment period. Maybe you will be able to get a $12.95 rate with an additional 1-year minimum commitment (as is the case now, I believe), but it's not clear.


I would cancel in a heartbeat if they tried to push another commitment for the lower rate.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

pdhenry said:


> The terms now say the $19.95 rate continues month-to-month after the committment period. Maybe you will be able to get a $12.95 rate with an additional 1-year minimum commitment (as is the case now, I believe), but it's not clear.


See - that is what I think will happen

- I mean I am new here and all and have never seen this type of mass bandwagon to a wrong conclusion before but...


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

If I already owned a premiere with lifetime service, then I might buy one of these $99 units, but never activate it and keep it in my attic for spare parts. It would be a good insurance policy and wouldn't have to send the unit back to be serviced or wait to order a part.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> See - that is what I think will happen
> 
> - I mean I am new here and all and have never seen this type of mass bandwagon to a wrong conclusion before but...


The problem right now is that you have no way to know, because all they say is that you continue month-to-month after your year is up. There is no other conclusion to make other than what they post for the service terms.

I agree btw, but atm it is unclear.


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## turbobuick86 (May 3, 2002)

shwru980r said:


> If I already owned a premiere with lifetime service, then I might buy one of these $99 units, but never activate it and keep it in my attic for spare parts. It would be a good insurance policy and wouldn't have to send the unit back to be serviced or wait to order a part.


This is what I've been thinking. Buy it for the HD, remote, cables, etc. and never activate it.

If this board is confused by the stated terms of this pseudo-bargain, the general public doesn't have a chance. Glad I'm not working the TiVo switchboard today.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

slowbiscuit said:


> The problem right now is that you have no way to know, because all they say is that you continue month-to-month after your year is up. There is no other conclusion to make other than what they post for the service terms.
> 
> I agree btw, but atm it is unclear.


I believe they really are taking a page from cell phone carriers/cable companies. Once your plan is up they are not required to keep your rate the same.

Apparently, Tivo didn't get the memo that most people hate cell phone companies and cable companies. People tolerate them because they have little choice. Nobody "needs" a Tivo and there are better, less expensive options out there.


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## rbendorf (Dec 10, 2008)

I just found this on another site, I am not sure if it applies to any other companies.

I spoke with 6ave by phone. They have worked out the pricing with Tivo. Tivo will honor the pre 11/14 pricing on all units SOLD before 11/14.

The Terms of Service on the Tivo website were revised to substitute the word "Activated" with "purchased":

SO, I'm going to guess that there was some miscommunication between 6ave and tivo and the customer service folks on both sides worked things out.

Thank you to both companies for doing so!


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

ZeoTiVo said:


> See - that is what I think will happen
> 
> - I mean I am new here and all and have never seen this type of mass bandwagon to a wrong conclusion before but...


Unfortunately looks like we were partially correct.

TiVoPony's comments

After the year commitment, the price remains at $19.99 but no commitment.

While this makes the deal a little more appealing, it would be even more appealing if the price was $12.95 after the year was over with no commitment especially if TiVo ramped up development and released a new model yearly that was worth upgrading to.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

How is that more appealing? TiVoPony has said is that after a year the price doesn't change but you're no longer committed to continue service. That much we already knew. There's nothing that suggests you can re-subscribe at a lower rate, or buy Lifetime, or convert the box to an MSD rate (in fact, the MSD terms stipulate that it's only valid for new activations).


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

The reason I can see it being more appealing is if we see a change in TiVo. With this pricing model and as new tech/hardware continues to drop in prices at the rate it does, TiVo could start to release new hardware yearly. 

While lifetime will always be the better deal, if we see TiVo embrace rolling out new hardware much more frequently as touched on in the NyTimes article, it might be tempting for those who always want new hardware. 

Imagine a year from now TiVo rolls out multiple new Premieres with additional tuners and space and then 10 months later another revision. If they start doing this, assuming it isn't just more space, I could see keeping one on a $19.99 plan if I upgraded everytime to keep my main box the most current. In other words if they start copying Apple's model we could see a reason to justify not buying lifetime if you want the most current hardware. 

I am not saying this is going to happen, but if a year from now we see a new TiVo it could be what they are trying to do especially if they get to a point where they make enough profit over the hardware and subscriptions.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

innocentfreak said:


> The reason I can see it being more appealing is if we see a change in TiVo. With this pricing model and as new tech/hardware continues to drop in prices at the rate it does, TiVo could start to release new hardware yearly.


They can't even release software updates in a timely manner, and software is much quicker in the design to marketplace process than hardware. I doubt the price increase will have any affect on the rate of hardware release.

It's more likely a reaction to poor Premiere sales, and the desire for Tivo's partners and advertisers to see more market penetration of the flash/HDUI.


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## parzec (Jun 21, 2002)

Yet another sneaky trick by Tivo that allows them to indefinitely overcharge people for service after the end of the year commitment. Aside from adding to Tivo's growing list of ethical shortcomings, this is a horrible strategy. Tivo's primary competition is with cable DVRs which cost nothing upfront, and are rented at a nominal monthly charge. Even with the $99 Tivo Premier -- it is still significantly more expensive than a free DVR-- and the $20 monthly fee is laughable compared to the cost of renting the cable DVR. To add insult to injury, the Tivo Premier is really an unfinished Beta-product. I don't see how this promotion will be anything but a complete failure.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

It allows Tivo to offer a better DVR than the cable company offers with a pricing structure that is closer to what the cable company charges for a DVR.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I bet the deal is = do the 1 year deal at 19.95. If at the end of that year the customer does nothing - they get billed at 19.95 a month and likely end up in a new 1 year commitment.





innocentfreak said:


> Unfortunately looks like we were partially correct.
> 
> TiVoPony's comments
> 
> After the year commitment, the price remains at $19.99 but no commitment.





innocentfreak said:


> The reason I can see it being more appealing is if we see a change in TiVo. With this pricing model and as new tech/hardware continues to drop in prices at the rate it does, TiVo could start to release new hardware yearly.


Yep. Actually TiVo backed off the more onerous thing they usuually do of making it another year at 19.95. With month to month once you notice the year is up you can more easily get the better plans even if it was at month 15 your recalled you needed to do something.

as to the hardware flipping - I have already done that multiple times. I had 540 models on grandfathered 6.95 month to month and since then flipped them out to S2 DT models and now some TiVo HD models and one Toshivo with a DVD burner model.

To me the bigger issue by far is the change TSN# option is gone from web site. I hope it is because they could not make it work correctly with the new 19.95 year plan. I have not had to change a TSN recently so have not called in to try and change a TSN.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

If Tivo had a great product, I think these changes wouldn't be so bad. Unfortunately, the Premiere is NOT a great product even by Tivo standards. I could never recommend that anyone buy one. If I want someone to buy a headache they should just buy a cable co DVR, at least there is no commitment with those.......


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## turbobuick86 (May 3, 2002)

If the price stays on the box, does the nightmare escalate if you try to sell the $99 box after the commitment? Does the new owner inherit $19.95 per month which makes it worse than worthless?

If not, sell it to your wife, and restart new service for $12.95.


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## djwilso (Dec 23, 2006)

I wonder what the Premiere sales would have looked like had they _actually_ "reinvented the DVR" with *3* or more tuners instead of the same old 2...

I know I would have purchased one.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

turbobuick86 said:


> If the price stays on the box, does the nightmare escalate if you try to sell the $99 box after the commitment? Does the new owner inherit $19.95 per month which makes it worse than worthless?
> 
> If not, sell it to your wife, and restart new service for $12.95.


Your post is what the big problem will be a year from now if TiVo has another pricing plan, the buyer calls TiVo get the current pricing, purchases from E-Bay a TP that had the $19.95/month plan and does not know that the TiVo has an attached $20/month fee until they try to active it, E-Bay, TiVo, are all going to have big problems at that point if nothing changes.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

pdhenry said:


> How is that more appealing? TiVoPony has said is that after a year the price doesn't change but you're no longer committed to continue service. That much we already knew. There's nothing that suggests you can re-subscribe at a lower rate, or buy Lifetime, or convert the box to an MSD rate (in fact, the MSD terms stipulate that it's only valid for new activations).


You can use MSD on existing subs, like upgrade from monthly to $99 annual or lifetime on an existing box once the 1 year commit is up...in fact I think you can upgrade monthly _during_ the first year.

Like with the cell phone companies, you'll call up and get the next deal, or cancel.

If there are lot of cancellations Tivo will really lose money, but I'd bet on TiVo due to the puppy dog concept.* People are not going to want to part with the Tivo. They may want to get the newer one for another $99 and another commit, just as with wireless. phones!

It occurred to me that TiVo is actually safer with the "pay later" pricing than mobile phone companies. AT&T lost a ton of money early on with the iPhoen when people bought them in quantity and jailbreak them to use overseas on on other carriers. That's why, AFAIK, you can't order an iPhone online to this day from Apple or AT&T if you're not an existing customer. You can get one in person at a store with ID.

With TiVo you have to use the Tivo service so they're going to hear from you. There ain't no jailbreaking.

*As for the puppy dog concept, it also just occurred that this can fix TiVo's biggest problem with marketing to consumers. You can't describe a TiVo in an elevator pitch. So they give people get a taste for $0-$99 and $20 a month and let them see what it does. Ain't nobody gonna give 'em up, Rick Astley!


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

lessd said:


> Your post is what the big problem will be a year from now if TiVo has another pricing plan, the buyer calls TiVo get the current pricing, purchases from E-Bay a TP that had the $19.95/month plan and does not know that the TiVo has an attached $20/month fee until they try to active it, E-Bay, TiVo, are all going to have big problems at that point if nothing changes.


While you can't necessarily blame companies for not having an easy way to deal with used equipment, maybe TiVo should add a TSN verification option online. This would allow you to verify what plans or what the current TiVo has.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

I bought a unit when Tivo was "testing" the $0 plus $19.99 a month. Will I be able to use MSD after my year is up?


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## parzec (Jun 21, 2002)

aadam101 said:


> I bought a unit when Tivo was "testing" the $0 plus $19.99 a month. Will I be able to use MSD after my year is up?


It is anybody's guess as the most recent terms of Tivo's "infallible" TOS do not specify...perhaps Tivo is reserving the right to unilaterally modify those terms at a later date, once enough people are suckered into this "deal" and, of course, after the cancellation period expires. Nevertheless, the poetic symmetry is beautiful: a half-baked promotion of a half-baked Tivo -- I wouldn't expect it any other way from the current leadership at Tivo


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

parzec said:


> It is anybody's guess as the most recent terms of Tivo's "infallible" TOS do not specify...perhaps Tivo is reserving the right to unilaterally modify those terms at a later date, once enough people are suckered into this "deal" and, of course, after the cancellation period expires. Nevertheless, the poetic symmetry is beautiful: a half-baked promotion of a half-baked Tivo -- I wouldn't expect it any other way from the current leadership at Tivo


I don't feel suckered since I knew what I was buying. I did sort of expect the price to go to $12.95 when the contract is up. If it doesn't, I won't hesitate to toss the Tivo in the garbage and cancel both of my units. Tivo is becoming more and more irrelevant in my house.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

aadam101 said:


> I bought a unit when Tivo was "testing" the $0 plus $19.99 a month. Will I be able to use MSD after my year is up?


The currrent terms state that MSD is valid on new activations only.

http://www.tivo.com/abouttivo/policies/tivomultiservicediscountagreement.html


> TiVo Inc. ("TiVo") offers certain registered account holders of subscriptions to the TiVo service or the TiVo Plus service, as further specified herein, a multi-service discount (the "MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT") *on new TiVo service subscription activations only* under the following terms and conditions.


TiVo's emphasis...


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

aadam101 said:


> I bought a unit when Tivo was "testing" the $0 plus $19.99 a month. Will I be able to use MSD after my year is up?


The $0 down $19.99/mo deal wasn't for a year it was for 2 years. What you will have to pay after the 2 years is up is anyones guess. You will of course have to call TiVo to cancel the service after the 2 years is up and see what retention offer you get. You might actually have to cancel the service and then reactivated it as the current TOS agreement does allow TiVo's being Reactivated to get the MSD.

Thanks,


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

pdhenry said:


> The currrent terms state that MSD is valid on new activations only.
> 
> http://www.tivo.com/abouttivo/policies/tivomultiservicediscountagreement.htmlTiVo's emphasis...


However they also say this:

*TiVo Service Reactivation.* All reactivations of TiVo service or TiVo Plus service subscriptions will be governed by the terms of the TiVo Service Agreement or TiVo Plus Service Agreement, as applicable, and your TiVo Service Payment Plan. *Any TiVo service or TiVo Plus service subscription reactivation will be eligible for the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT* as long as the TiVo service or TiVo Plus service subscription that is reactivated meets all the applicable Initial Qualification and General Eligibility requirements of this Agreement including the activation of a new TiVo service subscription and commitment.​
Thanks,


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Sounds like a good reason to spend $399 on a Ceton InfiniTV 4 CableCARD tuner for a PC. No commitment and no monthly fees except for a single CableCARD rental from your provider. If you've already got Win 7 with Media Center (virtually all Win 7 versions include it) then your only other upgrade may be a new graphics card if your existing card is not HDCP compliant.

I used to love my Tivos, but Tivo Inc. seems to be determined to shoot themselves in the foot and alienate their customers. I'm enjoying Win 7 Media Center more every day. Tivo needs to get their act together and see the writing on the wall or they'll soon become as extinct as the Dodos they emulate.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Except the extenders suck, generally speaking. Yes, even including the Xbox360 slim. I've got a Linksys DMA2100 and a 360 with my 7MC setup and they both suck (compared to a Tivo) for various reasons.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I think this is all a snafu over people making simple things hard.


+1,000


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

slowbiscuit said:


> Except the extenders suck, generally speaking. Yes, even including the Xbox360 slim. I've got a Linksys DMA2100 and a 360 with my 7MC setup and they both suck (compared to a Tivo) for various reasons.


I'll agree they're not the best solution, but they tend to work fairly well for what they're designed to do. I get perfect HDTV playback on my extenders using both the Ceton tuners and HP USB ATSC tuners over my home network. I'm currently using three DMA2200s as extenders. Aside from occasional hangups that require a reset (i.e., power off then on), they do the job adequately enough. My only real beef is that they lack support for most codecs to play back many of the latest file formats. I haven't tried the XBox 360 slim model yet, but I'm thinking about picking one up on Black Friday when they have deals available.

FYI - The Ceton tuners can now be shared across a network with other PCs if you don't like using extenders. The software to do this is currently in beta testing but I suspect it will be widely available soon. There's a setup guide posted at missingremote.com.


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## not_right_ripoff (Nov 19, 2010)

The new pricing was not announced until the 14th. I bought systems on the 12th when the old pricing was in effect. Tivo refused to honor the pricing for the date on my invoice even after seeing the dated invoice.
Total bate and switch.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

not_right_ripoff said:


> The new pricing was not announced until the 14th. I bought systems on the 12th when the old pricing was in effect. Tivo refused to honor the pricing for the date on my invoice even after seeing the dated invoice.
> Total bate and switch.


Did you _activate_ the TiVos on the 12th?


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## shadowplay (Mar 12, 2003)

orangeboy said:


> Did you _activate_ the TiVos on the 12th?


Can you activate it before you even have it?


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## petew (Jul 31, 2003)

not_right_ripoff said:


> The new pricing was not announced until the 14th. I bought systems on the 12th when the old pricing was in effect. Tivo refused to honor the pricing for the date on my invoice even after seeing the dated invoice.
> Total bate and switch.


Did you speak to a supervisor at TiVo? The new pricing is not applicable on two counts:

1) You didn't pay $99
2) You purchased befoe 11/14

and this is clearly articulated in Tivo's T&C's


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## not_right_ripoff (Nov 19, 2010)

orangeboy said:


> Did you _activate_ the TiVos on the 12th?


Of course you can not activate until it arrives and you have the unit info. No notice was given about the price change until the 14th and on the 14th the Tivo pricing stated any unit purch. before the 14th would get the pre 14th pricing. As stated above, they changed the wording (I think on the 17th) to read "activated before the 14th". They are not standing by what they published on their site. Others saw the same pricing page. See above. Tivo's mistake. They expect us to pay for their mistake.


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## not_right_ripoff (Nov 19, 2010)

orangeboy said:


> Did you _activate_ the TiVos on the 12th?


Of course you can not activate until it arrives and you have the unit info. No notice was given about the price change until the 14th and on the 14th the Tivo pricing stated any unit purch. before the 14th would get the pre 14th pricing. As stated above, they changed the wording (I think on the 17th) to read "activated before the 14th". They are not standing by what they published on their site. Others saw the same pricing page. See above. Tivo's mistake. They expect us to pay for their mistake.


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## not_right_ripoff (Nov 19, 2010)

petew said:


> Did you speak to a supervisor at TiVo? The new pricing is not applicable on two counts:
> 
> 1) You didn't pay $99
> 2) You purchased befoe 11/14
> ...


I spoke with supervisors. I did pay $99 on the 12th. Pricing change for service changed on the 14th, with units purch. before then to have the old pricing. Tivo is not honoring their published (on the site, on the 14th) pricing.


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## petew (Jul 31, 2003)

not_right_ripoff said:


> I did pay $99 on the 12th


Who did your purchase the unit from. It's been discussed in one of the other threads that 6thave jumped the gun and sold $99 TiVo one day earlier. They have reached agreement with Tivo to allow their customers who purchased $99 Tivo's on 11/13 to activate at the old price.


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## not_right_ripoff (Nov 19, 2010)

petew said:


> Who did your purchase the unit from. It's been discussed in one of the other threads that 6thave jumped the gun and sold $99 TiVo one day earlier. They have reached agreement with Tivo to allow their customers who purchased $99 Tivo's on 11/13 to activate at the old price.


That's who I bought it from. Tivo had the invoice and knew it came from there. I'll contact 6ave to see if they can help.


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## steve452bz (Nov 19, 2010)

I'm not sure if this is "hit" or "miss" but I purchased a $99 premiere tivo online from a private party on the 13th, and when I tried to activate it on the website the only offer was the $19.99 price.

So I decided to call and I explained that I wanted to activate my unit at the $12.95 price, and the CSR never argued with me. I was on the phone for about 5 minutes and got my new Tivo activated with a 1 year commitment for $12.95/mo. I also mentioned that I ordered an additional tivo at the same time, but it did not come in the mail yet & asked him if I decided to get a second TIVO that I could get the $9.95 MSD Price, or $99 year, or $299 lifetime and he stated yes that I could.

I may have lucked out and gotten a nice CSR, or perhaps I got a tivo that was an older "pre-holiday special" unit?

Does anybody know if you try and activate a "pre-holiday special" Premiere unit online if all (holiday and non-holiday units) will it default to the $19.99 pricing for all new activations? 

The SKU for my unit is: R74632, and the UPC is 85134200865 if that helps.


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## hahnwo (Jan 18, 2002)

Since I bought my 4th TIVO at BB on 11/14 for $99 (without knowing about the 19.99 deal) they should honer the MSD pricing for existing customers and only charge the 19.99 for new customers.

Luckily I did not open it Sunday and read about the pricing structure on Monday so I am returning it tomorrow.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I bet the deal is = do the 1 year deal at 19.95. If at the end of that year the customer does nothing - they get billed at 19.95 a month and likely end up in a new 1 year commitment.


I bet you're right. Why can't TiVo just make this easy? After a year drop the user to the standard rate or MSD, whichever is appropriate for their account. Why make the customer jump through hoops to get the appropriate plan and rip off customers who don't have the time/desire to jump through those hoops? Seems like bad business to me. If they keep the customers happy with decent business practices then they'll get more customers.

Dan


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Dan203 said:


> I bet you're right. Why can't TiVo just make this easy? After a year drop the user to the standard rate or MSD, whichever is appropriate for their account. Why make the customer jump through hoops to get the appropriate plan and rip off customers who don't have the time/desire to jump through those hoops? Seems like bad business to me. If they keep the customers happy with decent business practices then they'll get more customers.
> 
> Dan


Actually according to TiVo Pony in the other thread, at the end of the year contract, it stays at $19.99 but no commitment.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

That's what I'm saying. It should automatically adjust down to the standard plan rates after the 1 year is up. The user shouldn't have to call and jump through hoops to get the lower rate.

Dan


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Dan203 said:


> That's what I'm saying. It should automatically adjust down to the standard plan rates after the 1 year is up. The user shouldn't have to call and jump through hoops to get the lower rate.
> 
> Dan


The problem is if it drops to the lower rate automatically then it is cheaper than buying a TiVo from TiVo and selecting the $12.95 plan.

$299 + $12.95 x 12 months = $455 without tax
$99 + $19.99 x 12 months = $340 without tax

Why would anyone buy the more expensive TiVo then?

Now I could see if they offered the following as an option

$299 + $12.95 x 24 months = $612
$99 + $19.99 x 24 months = $580
and for the third year it automatically switched to the $12.95 plan.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

Dan203 said:


> That's what I'm saying. It should automatically adjust down to the standard plan rates after the 1 year is up. The user shouldn't have to call and jump through hoops to get the lower rate.
> 
> Dan


And how do you know that standard plan rates will not be $19.95/month a year from now? Tivo has not raised monthly rates in many years, the last rate increase being 30% from $9.95 to $12.95 many years ago (if I'm not mistaken - it was about 8-9 years ago).


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

djwilso said:


> I wonder what the Premiere sales would have looked like had they _actually_ "reinvented the DVR" with *3* or more tuners instead of the same old 2...
> 
> I know I would have purchased one.


I think the term "Reinvent" is subjective. I have no need for three tuners and I certainly wouldn't want an additional cable card.

I would prefer they beef up the streaming services with halfway decent apps. Other devices have the same services but the apps blow Tivo's away (especially Netflix)


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

innocentfreak said:


> Now I could see if they offered the following as an option
> 
> $299 + $12.95 x 24 months = $612
> $99 + $19.99 x 24 months = $580
> and for the third year it automatically switched to the $12.95 plan.


This new plan is advertised as Holiday Pricing. I would expect it to be cheaper in the near term.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

aadam101 said:


> and I certainly wouldn't want an additional cable card.


An M-card handles up to 6 tuners, btw.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CableCARD#Physical_CableCARDs


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

samo said:


> Tivo has not raised monthly rates in many years, the last rate increase being 30% from $9.95 to $12.95 many years ago (if I'm not mistaken - it was about 8-9 years ago).


You are mistaken. The monthly rate was still $9.95 when I signed up in 2006.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

steve614 said:


> You are mistaken. The monthly rate was still $9.95 when I signed up in 2006.


Really? I just reviewed my account online and I paid $12.95/mo when I bought mine in 2005 until I switched it to LT after about 6 months.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

steve614 said:


> You are mistaken. The monthly rate was still $9.95 when I signed up in 2006.


 Yes. And $6.95/month MSD rate which I had until I replaced it with $99 lifetime a few months ago.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

steve614 said:


> You are mistaken. The monthly rate was still $9.95 when I signed up in 2006.


My memory is not that good but it is not that bad either. Here is the link
http://news.cnet.com/TiVo-sets-price-increase-for-April-1/2100-1040_3-846645.html
Tivo had rate increase ifrom $9.95 to $12.95 n April of 2002.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

samo said:


> My memory is not that good but it is not that bad either. Here is the link
> http://news.cnet.com/TiVo-sets-price-increase-for-April-1/2100-1040_3-846645.html
> Tivo had rate increase ifrom $9.95 to $12.95 n April of 2002.


Some confusion people over MSD is most likely the answer.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

lessd said:


> Some confusion people over MSD is most likely the answer.


Very possible.  I may be confused, but I could have sworn a rate hike happened while I've been a member of this forum, and I didn't join until 2006.
I could have possibly been victim to reading an old thread and not realizing it.
I hate it when people bump a thread that is years old.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

My memory is that were some price hikes in ~2007, when the monthly rate varied as a function of the term you were willing to commit to, with the cheapest rate ($12.95) requiring a 3-year contract. MSD was also tied to commitment period. Since you could transfer the contract to a new box (as long as you didn't buy the now one directly from TiVo) the commitment term really wasn't a big deal.


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## timatkn (Oct 1, 2010)

pdhenry said:


> Hi, you must me new here...
> 
> I'm interpreting the new subscription data to say that you pay $19.95 forever, if you buy the box at $99.99. But there are ways to buy the box at a price other than $99.99, either without a $200 instant discount or (as some observe) by paying some price other than $99.99.


When I added TIVO for 19.99 monthly and 0 down for 2 years I was told if I did nothing after my 2 years were up I would continue monthly at the same rate or I could change to any of the other plans available---i.e. yearly, pay 12.95 monthly with one commit, 3 year etc...

The unknown is what plans and costs will be out there in 2 years. I copied and saved the conversation. Doesn't guarantee anything but would be disasterous for a company to bring in all of these new customers under false promises and burn them 1-2 years down the road. I know my state attorney general's office loves to get big money from company's that try to do that 

T


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## donnoh (Mar 7, 2008)

Tivo has become the Rent-A-Center of DVR's. Why don't they just include a 50" Plasma to seal the deal for another $19.95 a month? Maybe they can jump into the furniture market and get in on the whole room couch and chair gig that includes a TV and Tivo?


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## OvrrDrive (Dec 14, 2004)

donnoh said:


> Tivo has become the Rent-A-Center of DVR's. Why don't they just include a 50" Plasma to seal the deal for another $19.95 a month? Maybe they can jump into the furniture market and get in on the whole room couch and chair gig that includes a TV and Tivo?


Or they could integrate with some major flat screen manufacturers and build in the full tivo box into new TV's... It would be neat but not something I'd buy specifically for...

By the way, I started service in 2004 at 12.95/mo.


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## ort (Jan 5, 2004)

Why does this stuff have to be so confusing?

I've been a TiVo user since about 2002 and I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around all these options.

Why not just settle on ONE PLAN and make it EASY TO UNDERSTAND?


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## donnoh (Mar 7, 2008)

Probably because Tivo realizes that they've maxed out on customers with money, now they have to concentrate on the pay by month crowd.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

We can be snarky, but isn't this cheaper than the previous pricing in the long run (through the commitment period, anyway)?

Seems like it's not just a fleece of the "pay by month crowd."


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

pdhenry said:


> We can be snarky, but isn't this cheaper than the previous pricing in the long run (through the commitment period, anyway)?
> 
> Seems like it's not just a fleece of the "pay by month crowd."


Most people don't realize that the $19.95 monthly includes a full warranty for the TiVo itself for the length of your commitment (if you don't upgrade the hard drive)


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

ort said:


> Why does this stuff have to be so confusing?
> 
> I've been a TiVo user since about 2002 and I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around all these options.
> 
> Why not just settle on ONE PLAN and make it EASY TO UNDERSTAND?


Mostly because different people want/like different payment options. TiVo, just like any other company is trying to find the price points that are acceptable to the market. Apparently what they have found is people like choices, if they only had one I would want it to be paying for lifetime service in full upfront - if that were the only option would you be happier?

Thanks,


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

pdhenry said:


> We can be snarky, but isn't this cheaper than the previous pricing in the long run (through the commitment period, anyway)?
> 
> Seems like it's not just a fleece of the "pay by month crowd."


While the 2 $19.95/mo service options are not for me, I do not think they are a bad deal for someone that wants to limit their upfront costs. Of the 2 options I think the $0 upfront cost with $19.95/mo service for 2 years as real merit and as lessd has pointed out the free parts part of TiVo's warranty is extended for the full 2 year period.

Thanks,


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