# Non-subscription TIVO use



## yak

ok, so i just got a TIVO and really enjoy it so far. the hardware (BOX) sales made it too hard to resist, so i dropped the comcast DVR and here i am. my question/issue i this: 
if i purchased another TIVO BOX (80hr single tuner) for a different room, TIVO wants me to subscribe to an additional monthly fee (admittedly with a $6 per month discount on the second monthy fee). If you have multiroom BOXES and they are networked, it is my understanding I can watch the programming from either BOX on the other? if i wanted to use the second BOX without a subscription, can i network the two BOXES together and use the second single tuner BOX to just play the saved programming from the main BOX? or is the TIVO BOX locked down until a subscription and connection is made?
thanks guys


----------



## MikeMar

tivo series 2 and most series 1 units will not do ANYTHING but play and pause live tv (30 min buffer) and play already recorded shows

no recording, no multi-room viewing, no tivo to go

all need a subscription.

I personally have a dummy box (use just for multi room viewing) and I pay the 6.95/month for it


----------



## yak

i am a little confused. i have a series 2 dual tuner as my main BOX and subscription point. this BOX gives me tivotogo and network ability. BestBuy is offering an 80hr single tuner (not sure which series) for free after rebate. 
just to make sure i am understanding properly, i would have to subscribe and pay the monthly fee minus $6 just so i can use it as an access point to watch previously recorded programs which are on the main BOX?


----------



## MikeMar

yak said:


> i am a little confused. i have a series 2 dual tuner as my main BOX and subscription point. this BOX gives me tivotogo and network ability. BestBuy is offering an 80hr single tuner (not sure which series) for free after rebate.
> just to make sure i am understanding properly, i would have to subscribe and pay the monthly fee minus $6 just so i can use it as an access point to watch previously recorded programs which are on the main BOX?


yup,

to get ANY of the functionality

multi-room viewing (transferring from one to the other)
tivo to go (transferring to or from your computer)
any recording

you NEED a subscription. You aren't just paying for the guide data, you are paying for all those features.

Without a subscription you can only watch live tv (and pause for 30 min) or watch anything ALREADY on the tivo.


----------



## scoombs

MikeMar said:


> yup,
> 
> to get ANY of the functionality
> 
> multi-room viewing (transferring from one to the other)
> tivo to go (transferring to or from your computer)
> any recording
> 
> you NEED a subscription. You aren't just paying for the guide data, you are paying for all those features.
> 
> Without a subscription you can only watch live tv (and pause for 30 min) or watch anything ALREADY on the tivo.


Maybe with a Series 2 that is the case (I cannot say), but my Series 1 can certainly record without a subscription. I cannot recall exactly how many years ago my sub lapsed. The other features I don't believe are even available for S1 even if I did have a sub.


----------



## MikeMar

scoombs said:


> Maybe with a Series 2 that is the case (I cannot say), but my Series 1 can certainly record without a subscription. I cannot recall exactly how many years ago my sub lapsed. The other features I don't believe are even available for S1 even if I did have a sub.


True, there are differences between series 2 and 1 in features

but i said in my first post here



> tivo series 2 and most series 1 units will not do ANYTHING but play and pause live tv (30 min buffer) and play already recorded shows


all series 2 need a sub, and some series 1's do


----------



## yak

ok, well that kind of sucks. thanks for the advice. 
are there no hacks around that enable what i am trying to accomplish?


----------



## MikeMar

yak said:


> ok, well that kind of sucks. thanks for the advice.
> are there no hacks around that enable what i am trying to accomplish?


sorry, discussion of theft of service is not allowed here


----------



## yak

theft? my mistake. i thought there were hacking threats on this message board. i appreciate your help though.


----------



## MikeMar

yak said:


> theft? my mistake. i thought there were hacking threats on this message board. i appreciate your help though.


yeah, you can hack your tivo and do all sorts of stuff (See the underground section) but all tivo's that require a subscription (series 2 and some series 1's, and well series 3), you cannot talk about how to get around having a subscription.

Sorry if it seemed harsh, but about once every other week someone comes on here and asks how to steal service when it's the #1 rule when you register here


----------



## yak

not harsh and i understand the rule. it was not my intention to violate it or to attempt to steal service. i was not sure if service was needed when i did not plan on using the service. i thought maybe you can use the TIVO BOX to do the same thing the tivo desktop software does on my desktop. i guess the title of my post didn't help....


----------



## frogger999

yak - I got the gist of your question. You were asking whether service was required (not how to steal it ) Geez, people have no faith in humanity any more. Anyway, I've been running a couple of series I Phillips hd-112 units for years. Service is not required, nor do I want it (through purchase or theft). It does not show the title of the programs, but I can record any program by time and date. Like you, I am wondering how to do this on other units. But if it cannot be done, can any one explain why that is so?


----------



## JWThiers

frogger999 said:


> yak - I got the gist of your question. You were asking whether service was required (not how to steal it ) Geez, people have no faith in humanity any more. Anyway, I've been running a couple of series I Phillips hd-112 units for years. Service is not required, nor do I want it (through purchase or theft). It does not show the title of the programs, but I can record any program by time and date. Like you, I am wondering how to do this on other units. But if it cannot be done, can any one explain why that is so?


Can't be done legally. (or at least not that can be discussed in polite company TOS)
Because Tivo changed their service a while back. and part of the change was to REQUIRE service to record.


----------



## classicsat

The service is more than just the guide data, it is access to features of the hardware/software, including those that put no burden in the TiVo servers.

TiVo designed the "service" that way so that they could sell the boxes at a loss, and amlost guarantee subscription revenue.

TiVo changed that policy for Series 1s becasue too many people were buying the hardware without subscribing, or would, as they were about to change their sales policy.


----------



## frogger999

Hey JWThiers - just so I understand. Is it illegal (in your view) for me to use my series 1 Phillips HD-112 as a recorder? I believe it is not a crime because the boxes were sold, in the early days, without restrictions. That's why the early models are great, right? I am open to any evidence to the contrary but I don't think there is any. In fact, as I recall, Tivo was telling folks that they could not record but it was pretty obvious that they could not legally cripple the boxes they sold - so they were required to permit continued use of the boxes as recorders. Otherwise they would have just been seling devices with time bombs in them and around that time programmers (irked at former employers, etc. ) were being jailed for that practice. So Tivo couldn't go that route with the original boxes.


----------



## JWThiers

frogger999 said:


> Hey JWThiers - just so I understand. Is it illegal (in your view) for me to use my series 1 Phillips HD-112 as a recorder? I believe it is not a crime because the boxes were sold, in the early days, without restrictions. That's why the early models are great, right? I am open to any evidence to the contrary but I don't think there is any. In fact, as I recall, Tivo was telling folks that they could not record but it was pretty obvious that they could not legally cripple the boxes they sold - so they were required to permit continued use of the boxes as recorders. Otherwise they would have just been seling devices with time bombs in them and around that time programmers (irked at former employers, etc. ) were being jailed for that practice. So Tivo couldn't go that route with the original boxes.


Thats a loaded question kind of like "Yes or No, are you still beating your wife?"

I don't know what models were subject to the rule change or if your units were purchased after the policy went into effect, so I really can't have an opinion about the legality of what you do that is based on facts. So If you really want my opinion, I would have to know a few things like what models were affected by the policy change (I never owned one so I don't know, nor really care) when the policy change went into effect, exactly what the scope of the change was and are your units subject to that change in policy and did you (or anyone else) modify your boxes to bypass the service requirement.

The easier answer is, If according to tivo your units are supposed to be subscribed to record and you can't prove that they were waived or grandfathered in in someway to keep that feature, and you are somehow bypassing that lockout, then yes you are breaking the law.

I don't want to get into a debate over whether or not Tivo should do ... or not do ..., it a silly argument that no one wins.

But, It is theft if you are talking about someone modifying the OS to bypass the service requirement. The gist of what was being asked was is there a way to bypass that part of the code.


yak said:


> ok, well that kind of sucks. thanks for the advice.
> are there no hacks around that enable what i am trying to accomplish?


Are you saying it is OK to bypass the service requirement if the unit in question has that feature disabled?


----------



## gastrof

Series 1 TiVos-

Despite what's said above, most of them DO record without service. Only basic, "dumb" functions (no bells and whistles of TiVo service), but they DO work.

If someone's subscribed an S1 box, then sells it, I've heard it's ability to record without service might be gone, but I've also heard that TiVo sort of "has to" reset it for you. You, the new owner, have to contact them if you run into that problem.

Otherwise, an S1 TiVo does record, and can even be programmed like a VCR, using start and stop times and channel numbers.

No programming info shows up in NOW PLAYING, just date, channel, and length of recording, but the thing works.


----------



## Rocketslc

yak said:


> If you have multiroom BOXES and they are networked, it is my understanding I can watch the programming from either BOX on the other? if i wanted to use the second BOX without a subscription, can i network the two BOXES together and use the second single tuner BOX to just play the saved programming from the main BOX? or is the TIVO BOX locked down until a subscription and connection is made?
> thanks guys


To the best of my knowledge a Series 1, subbed or not, can not be used for MRV which is what the OP asked.


----------



## boatbeat

I found an old Tivo tcd240080 at a yard sale and was just looking at the hard disk but its outside dimensions would fit nicely under the back seat of my pickup. It could make a nice mp3 player or NAS device with record/playback capabilities when traveling? 

This presents on a few questions for me, will the bios support USB boot, what about disk powerdown powersaver, what is a good OS to work with/for this (freebsd, linux, dslinux, - what kernel), are the drivers for sound/video I/O available, what are the power supply output voltages, 

Other then just being a stupid idea what is the down side. From what I have read on the board here the management & customers love for NASQ TIVO - Tivo Inc. is unexpected and reminiscent of the old Mac/Win/Linux passions from my youth. I have looked but didnt find anyone that has already done it?


----------



## puffdaddy

Don't know about USB boot, but a flash IDE drive would be easier.

Debian Linux has been run already on S2, so that would be a good starting point.

Good question about the drivers, a better (i.e., simpler) bet might just be to hack the Tivo software, as it includes mpg123 and the requisite drivers already in place.

Good luck.


----------



## boatbeat

Not a bad idea, you must be someone in the know, Ill load it to fresh disk and see how it goes, Thanks


----------



## classicsat

There are far better and easier solutions for a mobile MP3 player than a TiVo. 
You could sell the TiVo as-is to someone that will use it, and buy the bits to make a proper car MP3 player.

The least of the reason is the TiVo has no real hardware off, requires 120V, and is not hardened for the conditions in an automobile.


----------



## boatbeat

As far as selling the unit; Ebay currently has 17 listed with the only ones getting (any) bids have a lifetime subscriptions included. I could list the unit but wouldnt expect different results. 

I have looked at a couple of "single board offers" reviewed on the freshmeat site along with Palm V series & Ipods. Currently I use a portable DVD solution with a 1-way GM interface module, its ugly, limited storage & has vibration issues. 

Rugged case & disk suspension would be another factor and why I was moving the unit under the rear seat. GM trucks have a 1.5 form factor that makes radio replacement options limited; also that silly (car computer -> factory radio ->air bag deployment) interface scares me. The 1-way interface module I have now cannot set off my air bag; optical isolation is good. 

1. What do you mean by TiVo has no real hardware off?
2. 110v Power Issue; was my question, I have the 110 power problem on road & water & inverters suck power. Newer laptops require 18 volts; battery power is available but limited, bios powersave would be good. 

Just trying to recycle


----------



## jporter12

What kind of GM truck do you have where you would be worried about it setting off the airbag? While on the same data network, the radio does not effect the SRS system at all. As for fitting a standard radio into the 1 1/2 din opening, there are MANY kits out there for that purpose. I have 3 vehicles that use them. 

Since this is getting OT, feel free to PM me. I deal with automotive electronics for a living.


----------



## boatbeat

Thanks for the input; it is a GM Avalanche, I am located in Mississippi & the local "Best Buy" will not install any replacement units without using a $150 isolation module. It could be a marketing ploy by the distributor but I did see a RECALL write-up for a cheap $59 unit at bitzsafe(dot)com outlining this problem. I dont think it matters much why; they will not install unless you do. This is Mississippi, tort capital of the world.

I have not looked into WHY this interface even exists, but I do see positive indicates that an interface DOES exist. (Key in & lights on notifications output through left radio speaker) Are you telling me that it is not possible for ground-fault loop conditions to exist & blow the bag? It would be nice to utilize the factory CD changer buttons for input media control of an Ipod/DVD/Tivo solution if no danger exists. 

Anyway; The 1,5 factor LCD screens come up & out in a flimsy motorized fashion covering the ventilation system vents but that self engaging rearview camera would be nice. (The wife trashed my rear bumper into a visually hidden mustang once & tried blaming the trucks backup alarm not working at a 45 degree angle) Anyway the 1.5 units look aftermarket when inside a truck, my current DVD solution is ugly but at least doesnt cover the air vents.


----------

