# Bye Bye TiVo, hello YouTube TV (sad days)...



## seths17 (Jan 8, 2006)

This is actually a very sad post for me. I've had TiVo as part of the family since the Series 1 (a Sony version) and just about every single series thereafter including our current TiVo Edge and TiVo Mini units throughout the house. I love TiVo, the user interface, the Guide, the Season Pass, the Commercial Skip, the remote, but unfortunately the time has come to say goodbye.

We've had our rough times. Cable card issues, required tuning adapters that flunk out the times you are away from home and then miss the big game, failed hard drives, DOA TiVo units, reboots, error messages, the loss of every show recorded when the TiVo fails, and horrible out of home streaming performance. Regardless, my love for TiVo was stronger than these issues over the years and we stuck together.

I hoped that TiVo would improve with the times, grow in our relationship and show improvements. I even posted here years ago that the path forward was TiVo in the Cloud, or at minimum redundant drives or even SSDs. But alas, TiVo is TiVo, and the company behind it seems relegated to the annals of tech history and seem disinterested in the traditional consumer DVR market.

So, before I am stuck with yet another TiVo doorstop, it is time to move on. To forge a new relationship. It won't be perfect, and I'll often think back and miss my TiVo, but this is for the best. This time, it was you, not me.

I've met a new DVR. It's name is YouTube TV (YTTV). It's not a perfect replacement for you TiVo, but all relationships are different. YTTV doesn't have hardware that will fail, it will allow me to record as many shows at once as I'd like, it allows me to have unlimited storage, it has access to 4k programming that cable didn't, it is flexible enough to allow me to rearrange the Guide, and while not as familiar and comforting as you once were TiVo, it is a different and evolving experience that is improved and updated constantly, something that never happened with you consistently TiVo, and I fear that you will never be updated again.

So a fond farewell. It could have been so different. I'll miss you.

[TiVo friends, let me know what you think about the future (if any) for TiVo consumer DVRs, and what you think of YTTV as a replacement. People break up and then get back together, so who knows. Best case would be for Google to buy TiVo's intellectual property as to the DVR functions and integrate things like commercial skip, etc. into the YTTV service.]


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

We did the same about two weeks ago. It was not anything to do with TiVo but more total cost of what we had and what we now have. Yes, what we now have is a few dollars more a month, but the value we gain comes from family capable use of YTTV, What you said about recordings (though I might add those records delete after 9 months), synchronous up and down speed, and for me the most important, better picture quality. I in fact had a spreadsheet for this:

So, yeah, the spreadsheet doesn't take into account the "untouchables" like pic quality, family sharing, general stability of fiber over coax, and while my experience with Comcast was pretty decent since 2003, you CANNOT beat the customer service of a small fiber company where you get a human EVERY TIME YOU CALL.

Now I just need to confirm the best way to get ready for selling a LT Bolt with an expanded hard drive and where to list. I'd much prefer selling it herein than ebay.


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## wendlan (Apr 21, 2002)

After about 15 years from a Series 2, we also moved to YTTV last year for similar reasons. If my Tivo had not failed and the cable company hadn't refused to activate the CableCard, I'd probably still be with them.

I'm glad we changed though, as overall for our family, YTTV is better. I was reminded of that this week when, with one click in YTTV, I was able to setup a "Season Pass" to record all Olympic events across all channels. And no worries about tuner conflicts across the ~10 channels that will show events, or filling up the hard drive! (which happened to our Tivo every Olympics if you just setup a wishlist)


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## gigaquad (Oct 25, 2004)

Nice ad. I'll sit and stare at a granite slab of rock for 4 hours a day after work before I'll give a dime to google/youtube. They can suck it.

No, Tivo OTA plus Kodi on Amazon Fire TV gives me every show, every station, every movie. And it's free since my Roamio is lifetime.


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## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

I might go the YouTube route someday, but for now, my cable cost is lower than YouTube using my TiVo hardware. IF/When my roamio dies... Probably will go to YouTube. I would in NO WAY buy any new TiVo hardware.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

You're late to the party. Already 1700+ posts on this topic here:
https://www.tivocommunity.com/community/index.php?threads/anyone-tried-youtube-tv-and-can-compare-it-to-tivo.570429


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

Left tivo many years ago for YTTV
Best decision ever

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## DVR_Dave (Apr 19, 2017)

TIVO_GUY_HERE said:


> Left tivo many years ago for YTTV
> Best decision ever
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Way overdue to change your name to NO_LONGER_TIVO_GUY_HERE or YTTV_GUY_HERE.


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

DVR_Dave said:


> Way overdue to change your name to NO_LONGER_TIVO_GUY_HERE or YTTV_GUY_HERE.


Hahahahaha

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

TIVO_GUY_HERE said:


> Left tivo many years ago for YTTV
> Best decision ever
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Funny how we who have dumped TiVo for YTTV linger on this forum. TiVo created kind of a cult. Amazing technology in 1999, back in the ancient pre-iPhone era. Or maybe it's just the scintillating discussion we find here?

I haven't actually dumped TiVo. Still running a reconditioned lifetime base Roamio model recording OTA as a backup for the YTTV locals. Plus my wife likes to have MeTV playing at night (to sleep by) and YTTV doesn't provide that.


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

dlfl said:


> Funny how we who have dumped TiVo for YTTV linger on this forum. TiVo created kind of a cult. Amazing technology in 1999, back in the ancient pre-iPhone era. Or maybe it's just the scintillating discussion we find here?
> 
> I haven't actually dumped TiVo. Still running a reconditioned lifetime base Roamio model recording OTA as a backup for the YTTV locals. Plus my wife likes to have MeTV playing at night (to sleep by) and YTTV doesn't provide that.


Same here have 1 tivo premiere still running (lifetime) OTA for my sports . Much better picture on my tivo ota, plus slo-mo and RR much better than yttv.


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## CajunRuss (Oct 1, 2014)

I left Tivo in March, also left Comcast (internet and TV). I now have Tmo Home Internet and YTTV. Very happy with both. With Tmo Home Internet, YTTV is only 54.99 a month.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

CajunRuss said:


> I left Tivo in March, also left Comcast (internet and TV). I now have Tmo Home Internet and YTTV. Very happy with both. With Tmo Home Internet, YTTV is only 54.99 a month.


I have the same. Great combo.


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## lman (Nov 14, 2006)

My TIVO OTA lifetime doesn't cost me anything and I will continue to use it. Netflix and Amazon fills any other gaps. That's all I will pay for TV.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

unlimited storage? Do you mean REALLY unlimited THAT NEVER GOES AWAY?

I have watched shows years old off of my Tivo.. (and also watched shows I had offloaded -- though of course with all HD channels being transport stream, those do sometimes end up corrupted so I don't offload HD stuff anymore).

also, can you watch faster than realtime? I realize some consider it an edge case, but just like I listen to podcasts at 2x, I watch most non-scripted shows sped up (esp news/documentary/game shows, and many reality shows).


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

(BTW, I'd gladly have a *good* Tivo competitor.. but even with its flaws, Tivo at least ALONG WITH other services is well well worth it... i.e. I do use *commercial free* streaming services as well as Tivo. If I could just keep adding hard drives directly to a Tivo to get HUUUUUUGE local storage without transfer to/from Tivo, I would probably use streaming less.)


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

mattack said:


> unlimited storage? Do you mean REALLY unlimited THAT NEVER GOES AWAY?
> 
> I have watched shows years old off of my Tivo.. (and also watched shows I had offloaded -- though of course with all HD channels being transport stream, those do sometimes end up corrupted so I don't offload HD stuff anymore).
> 
> also, can you watch faster than realtime? I realize some consider it an edge case, but just like I listen to podcasts at 2x, I watch most non-scripted shows sped up (esp news/documentary/game shows, and many reality shows).


The YTTV recordings are limited to 9 months per general policy although there are exceptions both plus and minus. You can FFWD and skip commercials on YTTV recordings but no speed variations. Both scrubbing and DVR management are different, probably would be rated inferior by most TiVo lovers.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

CajunRuss said:


> I left Tivo in March, also left Comcast (internet and TV). I now have Tmo Home Internet and YTTV. Very happy with both. With Tmo Home Internet, YTTV is only 54.99 a month.


What is "Tmo"? Is this a special YTTV rate offered only via them? AFAIK there is one and only one rate for basic YTTV, which is $65 plus local tax.


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## osu1991 (Mar 6, 2015)

dlfl said:


> What is "Tmo"? Is this a special YTTV rate offered only via them? AFAIK there is one and only one rate for basic YTTV, which is $65 plus local tax.


YTTV and T-Mobile have a deal offering a $10 discount for T-Mobile customers using YTTV


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Yeah, I pay $50 for T-Mobile internet service plus $55 for YTTV with discount.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

osu1991 said:


> YTTV and T-Mobile have a deal offering a $10 discount for T-Mobile customers using YTTV


I am T-Mobile customer (for grandfathered phone service, not internet) and paying the $65/month for YTTV. Which side does one need to contact to get the discount, T-Mobile or Google? Or does this only apply to T-Mobile internet customers?


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

T-Mobile Promotions


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

moyekj said:


> I am T-Mobile customer (for grandfathered phone service, not internet) and paying the $65/month for YTTV. Which side does one need to contact to get the discount, T-Mobile or Google? Or does this only apply to T-Mobile internet customers?


Just follow zalusky's link. It is a little tricky though. When I did it, took a few days to get the code, then I had to cancel my current YTTV subscription and sign back up. That meant waiting until the end of my current billing period. So they don't necessarily make it easy. I did not lose any of my history, settings or recordings after I cancelled. So no worries there.

Another thing is the T-mo site says discount is for life. But when you sign up, Google says 12 months. So maybe you re-up annually? Remains to be seen. In any case, it's nice getting a little discount.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Not worth all that hassle but thanks.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

$120/yr is not worth it a few steps. BTW there is a FAQ in the above link.


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## seths17 (Jan 8, 2006)

dlfl said:


> The YTTV recordings are limited to 9 months per general policy although there are exceptions both plus and minus. You can FFWD and skip commercials on YTTV recordings but no speed variations. Both scrubbing and DVR management are different, probably would be rated inferior by most TiVo lovers.


Not entirely accurate: On YTTV you have full speed control of your DVR recordings (akin to TiVo's Quick Mode) from .25x up to 2x in eight different steps, but this is only currently available in the desktop version of the YTTV client powered by Chrome. SmartTV clients and iOS versions do not have this functionality yet, but I would expect it will make its way there...

True, there is no actual commercial skip, but I don't find myself missing it that much, especially since TiVo seems to have been hit or miss with the Skip feature as of late. Would imagine that YTTV will catch up in this area as well...


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## mahermusic (Mar 12, 2003)

T-Mobile had a special deal for those of us (looking at myself) that were members of their ill-fated TVision service. We now are able to get Philo for $10 for life!


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

dlfl said:


> The YTTV recordings are limited to 9 months per general policy although there are exceptions both plus and minus. You can FFWD and skip commercials on YTTV recordings but no speed variations. Both scrubbing and DVR management are different, probably would be rated inferior by most TiVo lovers.


9 months is even longer than I thought. In the past the cloud DVRs seemed to be a month.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Saw a report that the DD 5.1 support inexplicably will only be for on demand content, and only some devices.

YouTube TV 5.1 Surround Sound Limited to On-Demand Videos - Streaming Clarity

WTF? All the HD content comes that way (either DD 2.0 or 5.1) and every streamer I can think of supports it. Why in the world wouldn't YT be able to deliver it for live/DVR content?


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

I'm checking out YouTube TV and for the life of me I can't find a list of my recordings like it has in the "Now Playing" list on my TiVo. Am I missing something? All I see are basically a list of thumbnails of all my "Season Passes".


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

bareyb said:


> I'm checking out YouTube TV and for the life of me I can't find a list of my recordings like it has in the "Now Playing" list on my TiVo. Am I missing something? All I see are basically a list of thumbnails of all my "Season Passes".


It is obviously different. You have a Library, which contains different views into your content, which is grouped into:

New in Your Library

Most Watched
Scheduled (To-Do List)
Shows (not Movies, Sports, or Events)
Movies
Sports
Events
Purchased
There is no single view that shows all your recordings the way Tivo does it that I have found. The paradigm is different. Hulu Live TV also didn't offer this when I tried it. Sling did when I tried it, and AT&T TV does (I think), so you might try those out to see if you like them better. AT&T TV in particular has been getting some good reviews lately, but it is more expensive than YTTV.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

ncted said:


> It is obviously different. You have a Library, which contains different views into your content, which is grouped into:
> 
> New in Your Library
> 
> ...


Thanks. I've had it couple days now and it seems workable. I noticed it only seems to broadcast audio in PCM Stereo format rather than Dolby Digital like my Apple TV and TiVo Roamio. Makes me wonder if the unlimited storage is at a low resolution to save space?


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

I big plus for me is living in Texas we get power outages alot due to weather, or our ahole government and its rolling black outs, but yttv will still record shows/games without interruption. 

Hate no slo-mo and FF sucks.

I still have 2 OTA lifetime tivos, that i record football on, as picture and formentioned slo-mo ff skip is available and picture is much better (i am probably 3 miles from the HD antenna farm

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## samsauce29 (Nov 30, 2007)

bareyb said:


> Thanks. I've had it couple days now and it seems workable. I noticed it only seems to broadcast audio in PCM Stereo format rather than Dolby Digital like my Apple TV and TiVo Roamio. Makes me wonder if the unlimited storage is at a low resolution to save space?


The DD 5.1 content is coming soon. See post #29 above for a link.

The Library is definitely different than TiVo, but works well for us. We've been using it for a year or more now.


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## the928guy (Sep 30, 2002)

bareyb said:


> Thanks. I've had it couple days now and it seems workable. I noticed it only seems to broadcast audio in PCM Stereo format rather than Dolby Digital like my Apple TV and TiVo Roamio. Makes me wonder if the unlimited storage is at a low resolution to save space?


My cable company / ISP decided to be only an ISP about a year ago, and there is no competition where I live, so I went with YTTV. My big annoyance is that "new in your library" does *not* contain all the newly recorded things in your library. It seems that if the thing recorded isn't actually new, you have to dig around for it in "shows." I really miss the simplicity of "now playing," but YTTV is as close as I've found to reproducing what I used to have with cable.

I suspect they don't actually have a million recordings of "Superman and Lois," for example, but they just put a pointer to one master recording in your "new in your library." That's how I would do it, anyhow.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

the928guy said:


> My cable company / ISP decided to be only an ISP about a year ago, and there is no competition where I live, so I went with YTTV. My big annoyance is that "new in your library" does *not* contain all the newly recorded things in your library. It seems that if the thing recorded isn't actually new, you have to dig around for it in "shows." &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.


Amen brother! I can't count on shows I've newly recorded showing up in the New section and it's a nuisance!


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

YTTV organization is terrible in my opinion as well especially when things don't show up as newly recorded. The amount of clicks to find and play and then return back to find another is just brain dead. Also the way to manually mark as watched stuff to get it out of the newly recorded section is pretty awful as well, especially from a phone, and not even available for most devices attached to TVs. I miss several things TiVo but certainly not paying huge cable bills to Cox.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

moyekj said:


> YTTV organization is terrible in my opinion as well especially when things don't show up as newly recorded. The amount of clicks to find and play and then return back to find another is just brain dead. Also the way to manually mark as watched stuff to get it out of the newly recorded section is pretty awful as well, especially from a phone, and not even available for most devices attached to TVs. I miss several things TiVo but certainly not paying huge cable bills to Cox.


Just get a Channels DVR setup and use YTTV as a source.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

zalusky said:


> Just get a Channels DVR setup and use YTTV as a source.


Great solution, but that adds more cost, defeating the purpose of cutting the cord in the first place. Cost is the number one reason I cut the cord. If I'm going to end up paying the same as I did before, I may as well go back to cable and Tivo. Personally I can deal with the way YTTV organizes (or fails to organize) recordings. It's a very minor issue in my mind. I can always find what I'm looking for.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

mdavej said:


> Great solution, but that adds more cost, defeating the purpose of cutting the cord in the first place. Cost is the number one reason I cut the cord. If I'm going to end up paying the same as I did before, I may as well go back to cable and Tivo. Personally I can deal with the way YTTV organizes (or fails to organize) recordings. It's a very minor issue in my mind. I can always find what I'm looking for.


There are many advantages of the Channels Server beyond simply a better interface AKA Now Playing and Todo lists:
1) Keep important shows local and permanent
2) Single interface and series passes across multiple sources
3) One button skipping of commercials
4) Channel Groups - His/hers/Kids/... arranged however you want
5) Merging in an Antenna solution if needed
6) The ability to change sources on what ever whim you want and keep series passes (if still available)
7) Single payment for access across all devices plus annual payment discount
8) Using Playon you can download from a number of streaming services such as IMDB TV and then download into Channels
9) Keep only what you need like last 1/2/... episodes - That way you are not wading through a monster of recordings

Now there are some downsides obviously like:
1) All data goes through your connection
2) Multiple concurrent streams could be a problem
3) Missing the onDemand libraries

Which is why I use both. Also T-Mobile YTTV discount effectively gives me Channels for Free.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

zalusky said:


> There are many advantages of the Channels Server beyond simply a better interface AKA Now Playing and Todo lists:
> 1) Keep important shows local and permanent
> 2) Single interface and series passes across multiple sources
> 3) One button skipping of commercials
> ...


I agree that Channels is great. But I don't need or want any of that.

1) Keep important shows local and permanent *I never keep recordings permanently. Nor do I have a computer or the storage/LAN infrastructure to run Channels*
2) Single interface and series passes across multiple sources *I only have one cable TV channel source*
3) One button skipping of commercials *I don't mind multiple button presses*
4) Channel Groups - His/hers/Kids/... arranged however you want *YTTV already does this with profiles*
5) Merging in an Antenna solution if needed *I don't need that*
6) The ability to change sources on what ever whim you want and keep series passes (if still available) *I only have a single source for cable TV channels*
7) Single payment for access across all devices plus annual payment discount *I don't want to pay any more than I'm already paying*
8) Using Playon you can download from a number of streaming services such as IMDB TV and then download into Channels *Playon has never worked very well for me. The quality is usually terrible (maybe I have it set up wrong?)*
9) Keep only what you need like last 1/2/... episodes - That way you are not wading through a monster of recordings *Massive recording list doesn't bother me
*
I really only watch a couple of cable channels. Even YTTV is massive overkill. If I were the only one in the family using it, I wouldn't have any streaming TV service at all and would rely entirely on OTA.


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

I'm trying out Channels DVR now and I really like it. The client interface is consistently good across different platforms, with many useful features. I like the admin interface, including the access to its backend components. It's great to have commercial skip for all recordings.

Unfortunately, a huge drawback for me is picture quality. It's not terrible, but it's noticeably inferior to what I see on streaming on an Apple TV 4K and on the TiVo. I'm using TV Everywhere to access some of my FiOS channels, and apparently it'd be better if I use OTA or cable on an HDHomeRun as the source. Using YTTV probably won't be an improvement, as it's still using TVE, just with different credentials.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

mlsnyc said:


> I'm trying out Channels DVR now and I really like it. The client interface is consistently good across different platforms, with many useful features. I like the admin interface, including the access to its backend components. It's great to have commercial skip for all recordings.
> 
> Unfortunately, a huge drawback for me is picture quality. It's not terrible, but it's noticeably inferior to what I see on streaming on an Apple TV 4K and on the TiVo. I'm using TV Everywhere to access some of my FiOS channels, and apparently it'd be better if I use OTA or cable on an HDHomeRun as the source. Using YTTV probably won't be an improvement, as it's still using TVE, just with different credentials.


Thats one reason I do a hybrid. I generally watch Live TV direct through YTTV. My wife records a variety of cooking shows, House Hunters, Pimple Popper which she does through Channels. We watch the 11th hour with Brian Williams and since we are on the west coast we get the early feed and are able to skip commercials. The resolution has always been pretty good through Channels.

We have gigabit fiber and our Channels Server runs on a M1 Mac Mini and that may help as well.

We do now and then seem to have a problem with Live TV through Channels where we get connection lost and we have to reselect the Channel. Not sure whats up with that we don't have the problem on recordings. Its another reason we do live TV through the native source app.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

mdavej said:


> I agree that Channels is great. But I don't need or want any of that.
> 
> 1) Keep important shows local and permanent *I never keep recordings permanently. Nor do I have a computer or the storage/LAN infrastructure to run Channels*
> 2) Single interface and series passes across multiple sources *I only have one cable TV channel source*
> ...


Person #1: Mine is bigger than yours.
Person #2: Mine is plenty big to do the job.

Person #1: I can piss higher than you.
Person #2: I prefer low pissing - the clean-up is easier

Sorry guys, couldn't resist!


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

mdavej said:


> I agree that Channels is great. But I don't need or want any of that.
> 
> I really only watch a couple of cable channels. Even YTTV is massive overkill. If I were the only one in the family using it, I wouldn't have any streaming TV service at all and would rely entirely on OTA.


If that ends up being the case then Locast and Channels would be a much cheaper solution.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

zalusky said:


> If that ends up being the case then Locast and Channels would be a much cheaper solution.


I already DVR all my locals for free with antenna and Recast. Can't get any cheaper than that. Plus Locast only works in big cities, not the small town I'm in.


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## Old Roamio 0 (Jul 19, 2020)

With YouTube I had it last year but then quit. I restarted it in 2021 when my old TiVo stopped working. On yttv the settings and recordings from last fall were still there. So they are a good alternative at times.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Tried YouTube TV and in short, it's a far cry from TiVo, so I cancelled. With all its faults TiVo is still the best DVR experience out there. Ordered a new 4k TiVo from Amazon for 250 bucks and I'm gonna ride that horse til it dies.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

bareyb said:


> Tried YouTube TV and in short, it's a far cry from TiVo, so I cancelled. With all its faults TiVo is still the best DVR experience out there. I'm gonna ride that horse til it dies.


There's no doubt that Tivo is better. Saving money is the reason to switch to YTTV, not to get a better DVR experience. If I had unlimited funds, I'd still have Tivo and cable. I'm willing to accept YTTV's drawbacks in order to save several hundred bucks per year.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

ncted said:


> There is no single view that shows all your recordings the way Tivo does it that I have found. The paradigm is different. Hulu Live TV also didn't offer this when I tried it. Sling did when I tried it, and AT&T TV does (I think), so you might try those out to see if you like them better. AT&T TV in particular has been getting some good reviews lately, but it is more expensive than YTTV.


Yeah, for anyone thinking of switching from traditional cable TV plus TiVo to a streaming cable service, AT&T TV, when used with their optional custom streaming box and remote (costs $120 to buy), will probably give you a UX that's closest to what you're used to. And you'll get better HD PQ than traditional cable, plus DD 5.1 audio on live and recorded content. Plus access to lots of streaming apps on the same device, something that TiVo doesn't really offer.

The deal-breakers for many will be the fact that while AT&T TV's cloud DVR add-on does upgrade your storage from 20 hours to unlimited, your recording still auto-delete after 90 days. So it's not for folks who like to "harvest" entire seasons of shows and save them for months before watching. Also, AT&T TV is still missing PBS stations, plus ION, INSP and NFL Network. And in many areas, the local CW and/or My Network TV station. But other than that, AT&T TV does offer multiple channel packages with channels from all the various groups. Meanwhile, YTTV, Hulu Live and FuboTV are all missing certain things; none of them have the Bally Sports RSNs, and they lack either Hallmark and/or A&E and/or AMC and/or Warner channels.

Perhaps some of AT&T TV's deficiencies will get remedied when the service rebrands to DIRECTV Stream later this month, although today's announcement of the spinoff from AT&T to the new DirecTV company didn't suggest so.

At any rate, you're probably not going to save any money by switching to AT&T TV, especially if you've already purchased lifetime service for your TiVo. (Although some of that could be recouped by selling it.)


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

The only advantage I see for AT&T TV here is better PQ, that's it. Everything else Tivo has or is easily remedied with cheap sticks, and the real problem with AT&T is that you're not saving any money vs. a competitive cable double play bundle (in my area it would actually cost you more money w/Comcast). Plus you get a far better Tivo playback experience and DVR without the stupid 90-day limitation.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

slowbiscuit said:


> The only advantage I see for AT&T TV here is better PQ, that's it. Everything else Tivo has or is easily remedied with cheap sticks, and the real problem with AT&T is that you're not saving any money vs. a competitive cable double play bundle (in my area it would actually cost you more money w/Comcast). Plus you get a far better Tivo playback experience and DVR without the stupid 90-day limitation.


The appeal of AT&T TV has always baffled me. I did have it myself for the first couple of years the service existed. It was a great value back then, $35 when I signed up. But in short order, the price doubled and kept climbing until it was on par with traditional cable.

So here is AT&T with the cojones to price an inferior streaming service the same as traditional cable/satellite. And people still sign up apparently in droves. Why? I can only attribute it to ignorance. When I browse the AT&T forums, tons of subs feel they've been victim of a bait and switch. They're completely shocked to find they have no local PBS, no recordings past 90 days, no Sunday Ticket, etc., all of which they had been promised by lying salespeople.


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## 241705 (Mar 9, 2010)

mdavej said:


> There's no doubt that Tivo is better. Saving money is the reason to switch to YTTV, not to get a better DVR experience. If I had unlimited funds, I'd still have Tivo and cable. I'm willing to accept YTTV's drawbacks in order to save several hundred bucks per year.


I'd agree: TiVo is a much better DVR experience than anything else. I almost went back to FiOS TV with a TiVo but the monthly TV price keeps climbing: for example, what used to be $50 several months ago is now $65 (plus another $5 for CableCard rental). If I could have kept my TiVo DVR and also used it with modern streaming services, I would have done so.

At the moment, the best solution for me seems to be Sling (Blue) with an AirTV device so I'm getting my live channels, OTA and DVR in one app - I like the new Sling app much better and look forward to when it makes its way to AndroidTV. I also have a PLEX server and use that Live TV/DVR functionality to record OTA stuff I want to keep longer-term. Not a perfect solution, but close enough for now. If I find something I like better then it will be time to cancel one service and pick up another.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

mdavej said:


> The appeal of AT&T TV has always baffled me. I did have it myself for the first couple of years the service existed. It was a great value back then, $35 when I signed up. But in short order, the price doubled and kept climbing until it was on par with traditional cable.
> 
> So here is AT&T with the cojones to price an inferior streaming service the same as traditional cable/satellite. And people still sign up apparently in droves. Why? I can only attribute it to ignorance. When I browse the AT&T forums, tons of subs feel they've been victim of a bait and switch. They're completely shocked to find they have no local PBS, no recordings past 90 days, no Sunday Ticket, etc., all of which they had been promised by lying salespeople.


Just depends on what channels you want, how you use a DVR, what features are important to you, etc. I'd say it's ignorant to assume that everyone else has the same preferences you have.

It's true that AT&T TV is missing PBS, which is important for some people (although in many areas now, the local PBS station streams live in the free PBS app). That is a drawback that they should address. But then consider that YouTube TV is missing the very popular Hallmark Channels as well as History, A&E, and Lifetime, all of which rank among the most popular on the cable dial. Hulu with Live TV is missing PBS, the Hallmark Channels, AMC, IFC, WeTV and BBC America. FuboTV is missing PBS, CNN, TBS, TNT, Cartoon Network and TruTV. And all three of those are missing the Bally Sports RSNs. AT&T TV offers all of those channels in their various package tiers, except PBS.

AT&T TV also offers the option of using a dedicated custom box with full-featured remote that's designed for use with a channel-based pay TV service with DVR. And the UI is more like a traditional cable DVR/Tivo as well. Your DVR recordings are never confusingly mixed with, or replaced by, on-demand versions, and you can always FF or skip through ads in your recordings. Some people are fine using a cable TV service on a Roku or similar device with a small simple remote and no channel numbers. AT&T TV gives you that option too with their app but if you want something that's more like using a TiVo or Xfinity X1, you can buy their box, which also offers most popular Android TV apps.

AT&T TV has better HD picture quality than any of the other streaming cable TV services. The only traditional service that's on the same level in terms of PQ is DirecTV satellite. And AT&T TV has 5.1 surround sound on the channels that make it available. YTTV did recently add limited support for 5.1 but not on live TV.

The 90-day time limit on their cloud DVR is a drawback for some. But I'm sure there are lots of people who, if they don't watch something within 90 days of recording it, they never do. I do think they should extend that limit out to one year (same as Xfinity TV's cloud DVR). But, as I say, at least for some people, the 90-day limit doesn't matter. And YouTube TV has a 9-month limit, so it doesn't allow you to store things indefinitely either.

Basically, if you want "full-service" cable TV, your choices come down to your local cable provider (Xfinity, Spectrum, Cox, etc.), DirecTV, Dish, and AT&T TV. There are other streaming options, ranging from YouTube TV down to Sling and Philo, that cost less but they all have significant compromises. Many people are fine with those compromises in exchange for saving money. Others aren't. Remember that there continue to be WAY more people on traditional cable/satellite TV than there are on streaming cable TV services like YouTube TV.

As I said before, you're probably not going to save much, if any, money by switching from traditional cable to AT&T TV (although you should save if you're switching from satellite). And I know the cord-cutter mentality is all about saving a few bucks, which is fine. (I don't subscribe to any cable TV service myself.) But some switch to AT&T TV because they really like what it offers. A friend of mine recently did and he loves it.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

That's ridiculous - you can't say AT&T is a 'full service' cable equivalent provider without PBS. Sorry, you just can't.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

slowbiscuit said:


> That's ridiculous - you can't say AT&T is a 'full service' cable equivalent provider without PBS. Sorry, you just can't.


I'm not sure if I agree with you (especially given that you can watch PBS for free via a separate app on the same device you use to watch AT&T TV). I'd like to know where PBS ranks in terms of viewership ratings but it's not included on Nielsen's 2020 list here:

Top-Rated Channels of 2020: TV Network Winners & Losers - Variety

They definitely should add PBS. I agree that lacking it is a negative against them. But I also know that many Americans never watch PBS. While it's a broadcast network, its viewership isn't in the same league as the big 4. At any rate, AT&T TV (which will be renamed DIRECTV Stream later this month now that it's been spun off to a separate company) is much closer to being a "full service" cable equivalent than is YTTV, Hulu Live or FuboTV, which are all missing multiple popular channels in addition to having other differences versus the traditional cable/satellite user experience.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

There are so many ways to get PBS like paying directly or through Locast or adding PBS Masterpiece or PBS Living to you Amazon subscription as needed.
I thought the point of cable cutting is to have choices and picking those platforms you need.

I think the real problem is the WAF and not wanting to explain all the different apps which is the real reason I added a Channels server.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

zalusky said:


> I thought the point of cable cutting is to have choices and picking those platforms you need.
> 
> I think the real problem is the WAF and not wanting to explain all the different apps which is the real reason I added a Channels server.


Yeah, it's good that there are more choices than ever. It's easier for consumers to find a service, or combination of services, that gives them the channels/content/features they care about while they don't have to pay for stuff that isn't so important to them. But all of these streaming cable TV services lack *something* compared to traditional cable/satellite with DVR. (OTOH, they also often have certain features that traditional services lack, such as YTTV's individual user profiles, or the ability to access the full service on any screen, at home or away.)

I'd say AT&T TV has the fewest compromises but then it also costs the most too. At this point, they just need to close those few gaps in what it has versus their DTV satellite service (add PBS, fill in missing CW locals in certain markets, expand cloud DVR retention limit from 90 to 365 days, add 4K, add NFL Network) and make it the new "premium" alternative to traditional cable TV service (which is basically what DTV satellite was in its earlier years). Advertise it not as being cheaper than your local cable company but as better -- all the channels, better picture quality, better DVR, better on-demand, better technology -- with anywhere access, no contracts, no BS fees, no equipment rentals, just simple everyday pricing and the option of which device to use.

As for YTTV, it seems to be doing very well by appealing mainly on the basis of value -- pay less and get the channels you really care about while skipping the ones you don't. They started off with a smart focus on locals, sports, and news (the main reasons why many folks still want cable TV) but have been forced to add more and more channels and keep raising their prices. And then, in a bid to control costs, got rid of RSNs, which has probably hurt somewhat in terms of their core appeal to sports fans. But then if Bally Sports launches a standalone RSN streaming service next year, that won't matter so much, because YTTV subs can optionally get that on the side and just switch apps.


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## 241705 (Mar 9, 2010)

blackngold75 said:


> At the moment, the best solution for me seems to be Sling (Blue) with an AirTV device so I'm getting my live channels, OTA and DVR in one app - I like the new Sling app much better and look forward to when it makes its way to AndroidTV. I also have a PLEX server and use that Live TV/DVR functionality to record OTA stuff I want to keep longer-term. Not a perfect solution, but close enough for now. If I find something I like better then it will be time to cancel one service and pick up another.


Update: I really, REALLY, wanted to like Sling Blue with the AirTV but I just can't get used to the quirkiness of the Sling app, especially the guide. Plus the AirTV2 is not the best OTA device. So, I went back to my HDHomeRun OTA, Philo and ChannelsDVR. I can watch almost everything via the Channels app and the DVR (running on a Raspberry Pi) is actually pretty darn good.


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## 2004raptor (Dec 31, 2005)

thinking of leaving xfinity in Dec when my contract is up and going to youtube tv. I think one channel they don't have is A&E that we sometimes watch. Not a huge deal. 

Just looking to see how happy folks are with yttv. I'll look back through this thread unless there's a specific youtube tv thread somewhere else.


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## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

2004raptor said:


> thinking of leaving xfinity in Dec when my contract is up and going to youtube tv. I think one channel they don't have is A&E that we sometimes watch. Not a huge deal.
> 
> Just looking to see how happy folks are with yttv. I'll look back through this thread unless there's a specific youtube tv thread somewhere else.


I'm bad... but would miss the Weather Channel. I do enjoy some of the shows and when the weather coverage when things go south as I have also have a home in south Florida. Seems none of the streaming products have it.


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## dougtv (May 20, 2015)

tommiet said:


> I'm bad... but would miss the Weather Channel. I do enjoy some of the shows and when the weather coverage when things go south as I have also have a home in south Florida. Seems none of the streaming products have it.


Yeah OTA Channels (i.e. Uverse and CableTV providers carry many of them like COZI or MeTV but maybe not others like LAFF depending on your area), The Weather Channel, and CSPAN are always channels I never see on streaming. That and some of the extra tier channels like Boomerang I think, MTV Classic/MTV Live, Retro, and a few others I don't seem to see unless it's on one vs the other platform.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

2004raptor said:


> thinking of leaving xfinity in Dec when my contract is up and going to youtube tv. I think one channel they don't have is A&E that we sometimes watch. Not a huge deal.


Yeah, they don't have the A&E networks, which also include History and Lifetime. Or the Hallmark networks. Also looks like the NBC-owned channels may be leaving YTTV soon due to a contract dispute although, if they do, YTTV says they'll reduce the monthly price by $10, down to $55.


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

They are alowing a "short" extension while parties are still discussing. So i guess snf is saved for this week at least

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## Mister B (Jan 23, 2011)

tommiet said:


> I'm bad... but would miss the Weather Channel. I do enjoy some of the shows and when the weather coverage when things go south as I have also have a home in south Florida. Seems none of the streaming products have it.


 frndlytv.com streaming has The Weather Channel if you wanted to pay $5.99 a month for it and some other general channels.


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## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

It just seems that if I had to purchase multiple packages to get close to what cable provides me today, it would cost me more $$$$. Will probably end up staying with cable, but use their streaming product when my Roamio finally calls it quits. 

And I'm one of the few that hate ESPN and the cost it adds to ANY package.... Errrrrrrr.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Yep, that's been the problem with cable replacement streamers for a while now - there's often no real savings when compared to an HSI+cable sub. I know that Comcast loses money on TV just to keep you on their HSI here.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

slowbiscuit said:


> Yep, that's been the problem with cable replacement streamers for a while now - there's often no real savings when compared to an HSI+cable sub. &#8230;&#8230;..


Valid point, although even when Spectrum was charging me $75 for 100/10 my total (YTTV + HSI) bill was a little less than what I had been paying Spectrum for Cable + HSI.

But even if it costs the same or a little more, YTTV + HSI is still much preferable to me since it eliminates the hassle of dealing with Spectrum's sleazy business practices (such as automatically increasing rates, requiring you to call in and try to haggle them down, with a different response each time you call in). Not to mention their terrible support of Tuning Adapters, with mine requiring power-cycling every few weeks. Freedom from that hassle is worth a lot.


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## MannyE (Dec 7, 2001)

I cut the cord about 4 years ago and aside from sports being a little harder to watch, I don't miss any of it. If I want to watch Doctor Who (not since the new showrunner ruined Jodie's chance at being one of the best doctors) or any other BBC show, I'll pay for it. Previous monthly bill was over $150 and now with Prime, Hulu, Britbox and Netflix, it's still under $50 and I watch what I want when I want. 

Moving to the Amazon DVR this week. Let's see if that can replace Tivo.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

For the most part we now use our TiVos "To Do" list to see what's on the major networks and then we watch them on the Paramount, Peacock and Hulu streaming Apps. Not ideal, but it's fairly cheap and the Picture Quality is much better than TiVo. Having said that, the upscaling on our LG 4k TV is nothing short of amazing and TiVo looks pretty darn good on it. The other night I forgot I was even _on_ TiVo and grabbed the wrong remote!


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

bareyb said:


> For the most part we now use our TiVos "To Do" list to see what's on the major networks and then we watch them on the Paramount, Peacock and Hulu streaming Apps. Not ideal, but it's fairly cheap and the Picture Quality is much better than TiVo.


Yep. I have an OTA DVR but during those times when I'm subscribed to Hulu ad-free, like now, I stream recent shows from ABC, NBC and Fox on Hulu rather than watch the OTA recordings because the picture quality is much better on Hulu, plus no need to skip through ads. I mainly just use the DVR to watch the evening news broadcasts from CBS and NBC a couple hours or so after they air, when I'm ready to watch my nightly TV.


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## AlinaJohns (Nov 9, 2021)

moyekj said:


> I am T-Mobile customer (for grandfathered phone service, not internet) and paying the $65/month for YTTV. Which side does one need to contact to get the discount, T-Mobile or Google? Or does this only apply to T-Mobile internet customers?


There are several discounts available for YouTube TV premium subscription if you search online but I suggest pay for what works best for you without wasting on other sources.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

AlinaJohns said:


> There are several discounts available for YouTube TV premium subscription if you search online but I suggest pay for what works best for you without wasting on other sources.


I don't think so. You're thinking of YouTube Premium, not YouTube TV. T-mo has the only discount I know of.


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