# Unbox - Why buy movies?



## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

I was wondering if others have purchased any movies from Amazon Unbox and had this situation happen to them. 

I wanted to watch a movie that I purchased (not rented). I decided that I wanted to watch it on another of my Tivos. Anyway, went to the site and it tells me that the video is not available for download. 

The response below is from Amazon when I inquired about the issue. I just can't see why anyone would want to purchase a movie this way. I thought the whole point was supposed to be the convenience of being able to watch it when you wanted with out having to have the box laying around your house.


--------------------------------------------------
Hello from Amazon.com.

Thank you for writing to us regarding the Amazon Unbox videos: Borat,
Smoking aces and Man of the Year and I apologize for any frustration
you have felt thus far. I have reviewed your account and it appears
that these videos are not currently available for download.

The period of availability for downloads can vary from video to video.
Due to restrictions from the video rights holders, newly released
movies can occasionally become unavailable for download from Your
Media Library temporarily. The video will automatically be made
available through Your Media Library once the Non-Availability
Window" has ended.

Because Amazon.com may be obligated to limit the period of
availability of a video because of agreements with content providers,
we recommend that you make backup copies of your purchased videos.

More information about managing your Amazon Unbox videos, including
making backups and importing files, is available on our Help pages here:


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## GoHalos (Aug 30, 2006)

That is unbelievable. I can't imagine that is the way that it is supposed to work. That HAS to be a mistake.

If you buy it, it should never be "unavailable".


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

This is why "buying" downloadable content is a terrible idea. Now renting stuff where you know you've only got it for a short time anyway isn't so bad (at least at 99¢).


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Yep, it's the way that it works... I sent them 3 different responses complaining about this. It's a good thing that I only paid $3.99 each for them.



GoHalos said:


> That is unbelievable. I can't imagine that is the way that it is supposed to work. That HAS to be a mistake.
> 
> If you buy it, it should never be "unavailable".


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Oh, I agree 100% with that. I only bought those 3 and am very disappointed by their response. That I should make a backup... that's absurd... given what they are supposed to be selling.



Puppy76 said:


> This is why "buying" downloadable content is a terrible idea. Now renting stuff where you know you've only got it for a short time anyway isn't so bad (at least at 99¢).


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

magnus said:


> Oh, I agree 100% with that. I only bought those 3 and am very disappointed by their response. That I should make a backup... that's absurd... given what they are supposed to be selling.


I thought Amazon *was * the backup. 

Anyway, it is outrageous that anything you have purchased would ever be unavailable for re-download.

:down: :down: :down:


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

magnus said:


> Yep, it's the way that it works... I sent them 3 different responses complaining about this. It's a good thing that I only paid $3.99 each for them.


If you only paid $3.99 for them, you likely rented, not purchased. That is the standard rental rate for most movies on Unbox. When I search for Borat (one of the titles you mentioned) it clearly shows $3.99 as rental and $11.99 for download purchase.

Being a rented movie, once played it will only be available for 24 hours, and is not available for re-download unlike purchases.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

No, I did not clearly rent it. I purchased it during a time when they had a special for $3.99 to purchase said titles. Also, take a look at the response that I got from Amazon. If I had rented them... I'm sure that Amazon would have been more than happy to point that out to me.



RonDawg said:


> If you only paid $3.99 for them, you likely rented, not purchased. That is the standard rental rate for most movies on Unbox. When I search for Borat (one of the titles you mentioned) it clearly shows $3.99 as rental and $11.99 for download purchase.
> 
> Being a rented movie, once played it will only be available for 24 hours, and is not available for re-download unlike purchases.


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## dylanemcgregor (Jan 31, 2003)

RonDawg said:


> If you only paid $3.99 for them, you likely rented, not purchased. That is the standard rental rate for most movies on Unbox. When I search for Borat (one of the titles you mentioned) it clearly shows $3.99 as rental and $11.99 for download purchase.
> 
> Being a rented movie, once played it will only be available for 24 hours, and is not available for re-download unlike purchases.


They had some specials where you could buy the movie for about the price of a rental for a limited time (although I thought it was $4.99 for Borat). This was before they settled into the groove of $0.99 weekend rentals.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Yep, they could not even tell me when I could re-download them.

------------------------------------
Greetings from Amazon.com.

I'm sorry for any misunderstanding. Unfortunately we do not know the
time-frame with which the video cannot be downloaded. As this is due
to agreements with our content providers and with 3rd party companys
unrelated to Amazon.com, we do not know the terms of these agreements.

However as soon as this blackout period is over, the video will be
available to download once more in Your Media Library.

I hope this information helps clarify the blackout period for you.



HDTiVo said:


> I thought Amazon *was * the backup.
> 
> Anyway, it is outrageous that anything you have purchased would ever be unavailable for re-download.
> 
> :down: :down: :down:


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

magnus said:


> No, I did not clearly rent it. I purchased it during a time when they had a special for $3.99 to purchase said titles. Also, take a look at the response that I got from Amazon. If I had rented them... I'm sure that Amazon would have been more than happy to point that out to me.


That may be the case, but everything you mention sounds like you downloaded the rental version. Could you have done that by mistake?

That response from Amazon sounds weird. Blackout? If I wanted to I could download either version of Borat right now.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

If you read the response from Amazon you can see that I did not download a rent version by mistake.

And that's my point exactly, why can't I download it... if it's available on the damn site.

Edit:

Actually, it's not available. I checked the site for all 3 of them and they all show 'This item is currently not available' when you click on them to download.



RonDawg said:


> That may be the case, but everything you mention sounds like you downloaded the rental version. Could you have done that by mistake?
> 
> That response from Amazon sounds weird. Blackout? If I wanted to I could download either version of Borat right now.


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## jtlytle (May 17, 2005)

Since Amazon unbox movies don't include closed captioned, I dont bother buy them at all.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

I can confirm what Magnus is experiencing. I *purchased* 3 Unbox movies during Amazon's Memorial Day weekend sale: _Borat_, _My Super Ex-Girlfriend_, and _Music & Lyrics_. All are showing up as "There are no more PCs/TiVos to download this video to"

However, the _Heroes_ and _Battlestar_ episodes that I did purchase are still available for D/L. They had *better not* fool with those.

Very disconcerting. If those three films were actually any good I'd be angrier about it. But it certainly makes me even more hesitant (already was due to the quality issues) about buying vs. renting movies from Unbox.


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## moxie1617 (Jan 5, 2004)

RonDawg said:


> That may be the case, but everything you mention sounds like you downloaded the rental version. Could you have done that by mistake?
> 
> That response from Amazon sounds weird. Blackout? If I wanted to I could download either version of Borat right now.


Amazon featured purchased videos for $3.99 shortly after they started Unbox and before the $.99 weekend rental purchases. I purchased four and deleted two thinking I would be able to download them later. They are no longer available for download which sucks. So he is not confused, you are. You just weren't aware of the specials.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

I used my $15 credit and that was it. The whole thing was just too complicated and slow.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Basically the black-out periods are times when premium cable channels run the movies. They get priority.



> *1. What are these "Black-Out Periods" I'm hearing about?*
> 
> Under the terms of its agreement with the movie studios, Amazon has agreed to limit your ability to re-download movie content during certain stretches of time. Normally, when you purchase (not rent) a movie from Amazon Unbox, you can delete that movie from your TiVo and re-download it from Amazon anytime. However, when that movie is being played by the cable movie channels, you may not be able to re-download the movie until it completes its cycle through the cable channels. If the movie is still in your Now Playing list on TiVo during this period, you're fine. Only your ability to re-download the title from Amazon is temporarily interrupted.


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## flaminio (May 21, 2004)

morac said:


> Basically the black-out periods are times when premium cable channels run the movies. They get priority.


Interesting. I'll make sure then to not play my DVD movies whenever a premium cable channel has priority.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Well, it would be nice of them to tell me when exactly I could expect to be able to download a movie that I purchased. As it stands right now, I'm left to believe that this 'blackout' period could be for several months. That's crap.... when you purchased the thing.



morac said:


> Basically the black-out periods are times when premium cable channels run the movies. They get priority.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

moxie1617 said:


> So he is not confused, you are. You just weren't aware of the specials.


Being unaware and being confused are two different things. But thanks for clearing that up.

To the OP: yes I did read Amazon's response. Several times. And until I was unconfused I mean made aware that Amazon did have blackout periods, it sounded like a bunch of BS to me.

It won't stop me from renting and buying through Unbox though, I'll just make sure to watch rentals ASAP and to be careful about deleting purchases before downloading or recording to a different source.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

That is outrageous. I have mostly rented, but did purchase one movie and a few TV episodes. The whole point is that Amazon is your storage so you don't have to worry about it.

That they can black out during certain periods is ridiculous - even more so when it's only the act of downloading that is restricted, NOT the viewing.

:down: :down: :down:


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Am I correct in assuming that purchased movies are blocked from TiVo To Go?


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

nrc said:


> Am I correct in assuming that purchased movies are blocked from TiVo To Go?


Correct, though you can transfer them directly to your PC from Amazon (if you are running Windows) and you can download portable player versions (WMP only, so no iPod).


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

Interesting that nobody from Tivo has chimed in yet..........


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## refried (Dec 22, 2005)

morac said:


> Basically the black-out periods are times when premium cable channels run the movies. They get priority.


This sounds like something which should be heard at a Congressional hearing on DRM and media company practices. Write your congressman and tell him/her that this practice should be illegal.


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## sommerfeld (Feb 26, 2006)

Amazon's response to my complaint included the following interesting recommendation:

_Because Amazon.com may be obligated to limit the period of availability of a video because of agreements with content providers, we recommend that you make backup copies of your purchased videos. _​
Sounds to me like they consider backup copies to be "fair use" of unbox content.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Except that there's no sanctioned way to back up Unbox content from a TiVo.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

sommerfeld said:


> Amazon's response to my complaint included the following interesting recommendation:
> 
> _Because Amazon.com may be obligated to limit the period of availability of a video because of agreements with content providers, we recommend that you make backup copies of your purchased videos. _​
> Sounds to me like they consider backup copies to be "fair use" of unbox content.


Kind of difficult to make backup copies of something that has been flagged "no copies allowed".

I would bet that when they came up with the "blackout" rule, they were not thinking of the case of refreshing a copy that user had previously bought. They just said "no downloads during blackout dates", and nobody thought to ask "what about previously purchased content"?


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## Blurayfan (Oct 6, 2003)

sommerfeld said:


> Amazon's response to my complaint included the following interesting recommendation:
> 
> _Because Amazon.com may be obligated to limit the period of availability of a video because of agreements with content providers, we recommend that you make backup copies of your purchased videos. _​
> Sounds to me like they consider backup copies to be "fair use" of unbox content.


Amazon is referring to making a backup copy of the version downloadable to a PC. The amazon Player allows you to import the file and if needed will acquire a playback license (as long as there are available licenses on your account).


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

I don't have much to add to Morac's reply. Magnus's quoted replies from Amazon are correct. We aren't told in advance when the exclusivity window begins or will end. We apologize for the inconvenience. But, once the window is done, you never have to worry about it again and will be able to re-download without limits. The exclusivity window will never apply to TV shows or older movies, just brand new movies.

To quote TiVo support (http://tivosupport2.instancy.com/LaunchContent.aspx?CID=59651483-994E-4775-93E6-0D00F8A10856):


> Due to restrictions from the video rights holders, most newly released movies will occasionally become temporarily unavailable for re-download from Your Media Library - even after they've already been purchased.
> 
> During this "Pay-TV Blackout Window" certain programs will be temporarily unavailable from the Unbox catalog and Your Media Library. This happens during the program's run on a pay-cable channel.
> 
> The video will be automatically replaced and made available to you through Your Media Library once the "Pay-TV Blackout Window" has ended.


Much like the 24-hour watch period for rentals (once you begin playing), we hear your feedback loud and clear, and this policy is not set by TiVo or Amazon but instead is a strict requirement from the studios.

I've made sure the Amazon Unbox folks are aware of this thread and if they have any additional comments I'll add them here.

Once again, apologies for the inconvenience.

Best regards,
Stephen


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

BTW, I couldn't find the thread just now with a brief search, but we did discuss this issue previously here back in March when Amazon Unbox on TiVo launched and the issue first came up. Note that the issue applies equally to PC and TiVo users of Amazon Unbox, and this policy also applies if you use competing online movie purchase services.


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

TiVoStephen said:


> I've made sure the Amazon Unbox folks are aware of this thread and if they have any additional comments I'll add them here.
> 
> Once again, apologies for the inconvenience.
> 
> ...


Uh-oh; my earlier post is outa' here!


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## happytime123 (Sep 3, 2007)

That's really an unbelievable experience.


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## etsolow (Feb 8, 2001)

Yet another reason to avoid Unbox... no thanks!


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Other than this issue... I really do not have a problem with Unbox. Yes, the 24 hour rule kinda sux but I'm not going to rent anything but .99 shows until something changes.

And I certainly will not buy anything given these blackout periods.... I'll just buy the DVD if I really want the movie.



etsolow said:


> Yet another reason to avoid Unbox... no thanks!


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Thanks Stephen. Is there anything that we can do as consumers to let the studios know that we're not happy about these restrictions?

I really fail to see why these blackouts are even affecting me. The way I see it the studios should not block content that's already purchased. It's one thing to not allow new purchases on Unbox (when the cable companies are showing the title) but it's entirely different when I've already purchased it. Are they afraid that my ability to re-download somehow competes with this exclusivity?



TiVoStephen said:


> I don't have much to add to Morac's reply. Magnus's quoted replies from Amazon are correct. We aren't told in advance when the exclusivity window begins or will end. We apologize for the inconvenience. But, once the window is done, you never have to worry about it again and will be able to re-download without limits. The exclusivity window will never apply to TV shows or older movies, just brand new movies.
> 
> To quote TiVo support (http://tivosupport2.instancy.com/LaunchContent.aspx?CID=59651483-994E-4775-93E6-0D00F8A10856):
> 
> ...


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## E94Allen (Oct 16, 2005)

jtlytle said:


> Since Amazon unbox movies don't include closed captioned, I dont bother buy them at all.


I asked TiVo CSR about closed captioning on Unbox and that CSR said it is only for Series 3 not Series 2. Can anyone confirm this?


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## bryus (Mar 15, 2004)

This is EXACTLY why I don't BUY movies online and why I will NEVER buy one from Amazon Unbox. They are overpriced at half off. I have some TV shows from iTunes and I can back them up, move them between my multiple computers and iPods without any hassle. That's how it should work.

Amazon's system is a perfect example of DRM gone too far. If you have a PC you can backup/store their movies on another drive, however, you can't transfer it to your TiVo and if you don't have a PC you can't back it up or copy it to another TiVo. It's like buying a DVD that's tied to one DVD player. Oh, wait, I think we tried that before, it was called DIVX, and it failed.


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

When will people get fed up with this @#$%? Clearly "buying", to Hollywood, still means that they have complete control of the content in perpetuity. They're doing it on Unbox and they have the ability to do it (I believe) on HD DVD and Blu-Ray as well! If they succeed in supplanting DVDs with any of these new & "improved" formats, I expect they'll be locking content to specific players, telling you how many times you can watch, what days or times you can watch, etc. You won't be able to re-sell, give away, or possible re-acquire your content due to hardware failure.

(Note that some of these warnings are my expectations. Other things are more certain. More details at http://writersblocklive.com/boycott/). One quote from a linked BusinessWeek article, 5/30/06:

"The Blu-ray's DRM scheme is simply anti-consumer. The standard reflects what the studios really want, which is no copying of their material at all, for any reason." (Source: http://www.businessweek.com/technol...+report+-+high-tech+tv+2006_high-tech+tv+2006)


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

If I understand the implication of what Stephen and Amazon are saying,

there is a period of sales, followed by a period of blackout (sales & downloads?), followed by an unending period of sales & downloads.


Yes?


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

Yes.


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

E94Allen said:


> I asked TiVo CSR about closed captioning on Unbox and that CSR said it is only for Series 3 not Series 2. Can anyone confirm this?


At this time, there are no closed captions for any platform (PC or TiVo Series2 or TiVo Series3). Amazon is aware of the interest in adding captions but there is no new information on when they might be available, sorry.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

bryus said:


> Amazon's system is a perfect example of DRM gone too far.


And iTunes is not?


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## nirisahn (Nov 19, 2005)

The blackout period is not just on Amazon, either. If you buy a movie from Movielink you have the same thing. There is a point in time when PPV has the exclusive right to air the movie and no other 'on demand' type service is allowed to compete. This is by studio contract. Amazon, Movielink, and any other similar service have no choice in the matter if they want to be able to rent out movie downloads.

Frankly, since DVDs don't cost much more than the downloads, I'd rather have the DVD. No blackout period while it's on PPV, and you get all the extras. And if you have a portable player of some sort, the movie is portable. You can also rip it into something that will play on a video player - no portable DVD player or laptop necessary. I've never bought a movie download to keep. I've only rented movies that way (and only when they're on sale). And frankly, I've yet to rent a download that has the picture quality of a DVD.


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

Buying DVDs has downsides, though:

* Occasional compatibility problems with different players
* You can lose it
* It can get scratched to the point of no return
* Leaving it on a hot dashboard in the summer = melted DVD


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

TiVoStephen said:


> Buying DVDs has downsides, though:
> 
> * Occasional compatibility problems with different players
> * You can lose it
> ...


Of course the up side is you can rip it and share it on all your TiVos in about 30 minutes. Stripping out all of the menus and previews and you have yourself a great system. Not that I would do such a thing though


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## bryus (Mar 15, 2004)

RonDawg said:


> And iTunes is not?


No, it's not. Apple has DRM but it's very liberal in what it allows. If I buy a TV show (I won't buy movies from them either, over priced) I can put it on up to 5 computers, unlimited iPods, or an Apple TV. I can also backup the file.

Can I do that with Amazon? No. Two computers only and I can't transfer between computer and TiVo, only works on Windows.

I find that people who don't like Apple's DRM are typically either iHaters/Microsoft fanboys who don't like anything from Apple on principle or anti-DRM fundamentalists who think ALL DRM is wrong, no exceptions.

While I would prefer no DRM I can accept DRM that is less restrictive on how you can use your media.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

bryus said:


> No, it's not. Apple has DRM but it's very liberal in what it allows. If I buy a TV show (I won't buy movies from them either, over priced) I can put it on up to 5 computers, unlimited iPods, or an Apple TV. I can also backup the file.
> 
> Can I do that with Amazon? No. Two computers only and I can't transfer between computer and TiVo, only works on Windows.
> 
> ...


Apple's DRM is just as discriminatory in that you can only play songs purchased from iTunes on an iPod. It won't play on a Zune or a Sansa or some other non-Apple MP3 player.

And no I am not a Microsoft apologist. Just ask me what I think about Windows Vista. And not only am I a previous Mac user, but I am on my second iPod and may shell out for the new generation Nano Video.

But Amazon's DRM restrictions IMHO aren't nearly as bad as Apple's, or more horrifically Sony BMG's. And Amazon's restrictions are largely studio-demanded. I don't believe a studio is telling Apple that they can't sell to non-iPod users. I believe that is purely an Apple marketing decision to force you to buy one of their products if you want to buy from their site.

And while we're talking about DRM let's not forget TiVo. Just try to plug in a My DVR Expander from one THD/S3 unit into another and see what happens.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

bryus said:


> No, it's not. Apple has DRM but it's very liberal in what it allows. If I buy a TV show (I won't buy movies from them either, over priced) I can put it on up to 5 computers, unlimited iPods, or an Apple TV. I can also backup the file.


iTMS DRM-video only works on _*Apple*_ portable devices and the AppleTV. How the heck is that liberal? The iPod is not the only portable media player out there. And I shouldn't have to go through arcane 3rd party software to convert a protected MP4 to something my Sansa would recognize. I understand Apple's gotta make money by selling hardware- (the entire reason the iTMS exists) but blocking out the rest of the PMP market is not liberal at all.



bryus said:


> Can I do that with Amazon? No. Two computers only and I can't transfer between computer and TiVo, only works on Windows.


The reason why it only works on Windows is that Amazon has to use the Windows Media DRM and the Flip4Mac Quicktime plug-in doesn't support DRM. Apple users didn't want Windows Media Player anymore- so MSFT stopped developing it four years ago. You can't blame Amazon simply because they had to address the larger target audience. And there are simply more users out there that have WMP 11 than there are iTunes/Quicktime users.

Besides, can't Intel OS X Macs run XP (via Boot Camp) now?



bryus said:


> I find that people who don't like Apple's DRM are typically either iHaters/Microsoft fanboys who don't like anything from Apple on principle or anti-DRM fundamentalists who think ALL DRM is wrong, no exceptions.


I'm not an iHater/MSFT "fanboy." I can live with DRM as long as it's not trying to sap information, install a rootkit or bog my system to a crawl. But I simply think Amazon Unbox is better; from both quality and operability perspectives. IMHO, the iTunes application is quickly becoming the "Real Player" in terms of bloat and system overhead. A media player/jukebox shouldn't be a huge resource hog.

Unbox player install: 7 MB; WMP 11: 25MB
iTunes 7.5 + Quicktime: 61 MB

Video Quality is far superior on Unbox too.

iTunes Store: H.264 @ 1500Kbps

Unbox: 

portable version VC-1 @ 600K
desktop version VC-1 @ 2500K
TiVo Box version VC-1 @ 2800K (the closest to DVD quality you can *buy* in a D/L format)

I have over a season and a half of iTunes-purchased _Battlestar_ episodes on my computer. (even older episodes encoded at 320x240- which Apple did not automatically upgrade when they switched to 640x480) I consider that money wasted when I compare those versions to the handful of _Battlestar_ eps I've purchased via Unbox. The quality and compression is that much better.

Amazon Unbox is how a D/L media store *should* work. I'm not that upset about the blackout periods- since they apply to movies and not TV episodes. (I generally don't buy d/l movies) And I'd rather have the options available to use my media on a variety of devices from various makes, instead of just those devices from a single manufacturer.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

Saturn_V said:


> Unbox:
> 
> portable version VC-1 @ 600K
> desktop version VC-1 @ 2500K
> TiVo Box version VC-1 @ 2800K (the closest to DVD quality you can *buy* in a D/L format)


That's not quite right. The general specs Amazon uses are listed in an old post from the Amazon Unbox Blog:


> DVD-quality PC File
> * Video Encoding Type: 2-pass bitrate VBR
> * Video Codec: Windows Media Video 9 Advanced Profile
> * Video Bitrate: 2500 kbps avg, 6000 kbps peak
> ...


TiVo Series 2 boxes don't have the necessary hardware to be able to handle VC-1(aka WMV 9) decoding and I believe that S3s are currently receiving the same version of the content as the S2s. When progressive downloads are made available (as previously announced), then perhaps they may be provided as VC-1 encoded material to TiVo boxes capable of VC-1 playback(currently the S3 & HD).


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

Thanks for the clarification. ExtremeTech had a review of the major Movie download sites earlier this year- (Unbox was the rated best) and I was going by their Unbox review, which stated it was using VC-1/WMV9. I didn't realize MPEG-2 was going into my TiVo box instead.

BTW, the S3/THD owners that were bumped into 9.2 this month.... progressive D/L was one of the features listed. Does that mean we're getting VC-1/WMV9 now?

I'm not so much excited about progressive d/l---but if it means we can get true widescreen encodes (like the desktop and portable versions) instead of 4:3 letterbox... I'd be *very* excited about that.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

gonzotek said:


> TiVo Series 2 boxes don't have the necessary hardware to be able to handle VC-1(aka WMV 9) decoding and I believe that S3s are currently receiving the same version of the content as the S2s. When progressive downloads are made available (as previously announced), then perhaps they may be provided as VC-1 encoded material to TiVo boxes capable of VC-1 playback(currently the S3 & HD).


Progressive downloads are available now on the S3/HD boxes with the 9.2 and 9.2a software. It is still MPEG-2.

I'm not sure that the S3/HD is even capable of decoding VC-1 since it really isn't a MPEG-4 format (which the S3/HD has hardware capable of decoding).


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

morac said:


> Progressive downloads are available now on the S3/HD boxes with the 9.2 and 9.2a software. It is still MPEG-2.
> 
> I'm not sure that the S3/HD is even capable of decoding VC-1 since it really isn't a MPEG-4 format (which the S3/HD has hardware capable of decoding).


Man, two bonehead mistakes in one post(mine, not yours). . That's what I get for going from my lousy memory instead of looking it up.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

gonzotek said:


> Man, two bonehead mistakes in one post(mine, not yours). . That's what I get for going from my lousy memory instead of looking it up.


Well the rest of the post was informative.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Considering these issues, I have to say I'd have to be pretty hard pressed for immediacy and convenience to ever consider "buying" a movie on Amazon Unbox. It makes so much more sense to have the actual DVD for a few more bucks! That way you really can watch it wherever and whenever. You get all the DVD extras. The quality is good. You could even rip it and upload to your TiVo with TiVoToComeBack.

Buying it with Unbox limits you in too many ways. I would only consider them at the $6 pricepoint or lower. But for $15, it's have to be MUCH better quality with FAR more flexibility.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

There's also the possibility that Amazon could drop out of the tv/movie download business and you'd lose all your purchases.

It might seem unlikely considering the size of Amazon, but it isn't unprecedented. People who purchased Google Video downloads were SOL when Google stopped selling downloads.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

morac said:


> There's also the possibility that Amazon could drop out of the tv/movie download business and you'd lose all your purchases.


Even if they are already downloaded to your TiVo? Do purchases "phone home" before you can play them?


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Fofer said:


> Even if they are already downloaded to your TiVo? Do purchases "phone home" before you can play them?


No, anything on your TiVo would be safe, but since the whole idea is that you can delete them and download them again at any time I would assume most people wouldn't keep them on their TiVos (basically wasting space).

I haven't actually bought anything other than free purchases, but I delete purchases after watching them. I'd assume most others do so as well (though with the new external HD, it's not as big an issue).


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## bryus (Mar 15, 2004)

Saturn_V said:


> iTMS DRM-video only works on _*Apple*_ portable devices and the AppleTV. How the heck is that liberal? The iPod is not the only portable media player out there. And I shouldn't have to go through arcane 3rd party software to convert a protected MP4 to something my Sansa would recognize. I understand Apple's gotta make money by selling hardware- (the entire reason the iTMS exists) but blocking out the rest of the PMP market is not liberal at all.


Sorry, you're right Amazon's two devices, PC or TiVo, with not transfer and two portable players is much more liberal than Apple's 5 computers and unlimited AppleTV/iPods.

As for it not working on your Sansa, that's not a valid complaint. Amazon's videos don't work on my Mac or my iPod without the same kind of DRM defeating transcoding you are performing on the Apple's videos. 
"And I shouldn't have to go through arcane 3rd party software to convert a protected *WMA* to something my *iPod* would recognize."​
As for quality, that's another topic. This is just about the DRM.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

It's now January..... and I still can't download movies that I purchased. I wonder how much longer this exclusive window is supposed to be.



TiVoStephen said:


> BTW, I couldn't find the thread just now with a brief search, but we did discuss this issue previously here back in March when Amazon Unbox on TiVo launched and the issue first came up. Note that the issue applies equally to PC and TiVo users of Amazon Unbox, and this policy also applies if you use competing online movie purchase services.


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

magnus said:


> It's now January..... and I still can't download movies that I purchased. I wonder how much longer this exclusive window is supposed to be.


Well, after pay-per-view gets done with it, and the "premium" channels, there's still the airlines and the dollar movie theater!


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

The exclusve window is only for PPV, however.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Many months later and this is all I get from them... it's absurd to think that anyone is going to BUY movies using this format.

One funny think to note... I never did ask for any money back.... yet in the response they make it seem like I did.

I merely stated that I would never BUY a movie from Unbox under any circumstances. I really think there should be a distinction between availabilty for new downloads VS downloads from PREVIOUS PURCHASES. Amazon needs to work with the content providers to make this happen.



> Hello from the Amazon Unbox Team!
> 
> I have researched your inquiry for these videos. Unfortunately these
> titles are currently not available for download.
> ...


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## pilotbob (Nov 8, 2007)

Saturn_V said:


> iTMS DRM-video only works on _*Apple*_ portable devices and the AppleTV.


Right... and that was thier "excuse" for not supporting non-Apple PMPs. Hmm.... but lo and behold, you can now by quite a bit of non-DRMed music from iTunes... and still no support for non-Apple PMPs.

It won't be long before there is a class-action Monopoly suite against Apply about this.

BOB


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

My response to Amazon is below. Yes, I m not being very nice but I am very upset about their lack of effort to work with the content holders... to at the very least... be able to tell their customers when these items will be available again.

Of course, I already have the same canned response that I got last time... in response to my latest rant to them.



> This not ACCEPTABLE. Also, I did not request my money back. I merely
> stated that since this is the way things work and because no SPECIFIC
> time can be given to me.... then I would NEVER purchase a MOVIE from
> Amazon Unbox.
> ...


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## dylanemcgregor (Jan 31, 2003)

Wow! I know this is a content holder requirement, but still it is just ridiculous. What the heck is the point of purchasing a movie if you don't have the ability to watch it whenever you want?

I know that in my house we have a fair amount of DVDs, most of these are not movies that we are going to watch 20 times, so from an economic standpoint it really just makes sense to rent from the grocery store for $0.99 when we want to watch the movie, but that doesn't offer the same instant gratification as pulling a DVD from the collection and watching it right now. The downloads cost the same or more than most of the DVDs we have bought, yet you lose the instant gratification and the special features.


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## Solver (Feb 17, 2005)

With the current rules, buying restricted virtual movies at prices competitive to ad free DVDs is a joke. These restricted movies should be sold at a price that is much closer to the curent movie rentals.

The first group that can figure out how to rent movies that can be watched on their TV sets for a reasonable period under $2.00 will have this industry. The others will wonder why they don't get enough people renting their stuff.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

I still can't download these titles.... this really sucks.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

What's it been 4 months now? That's ridiculous! :down:

Luckily the only thing I've "purchased" from unbox is a couple of missed TV shows. I've only rented movies. (and it's been a while since I did that due to the quality of the encodes being pretty bad on most of them)

Dan


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

I'd never "buy" a movie with this kind of DRM on it, but I do rent occasionally when they're <$2. Even then it's kind of a ripoff compared to Netflix (and complete rip off at $4 each!)

They've got a couple of good movies this week for 99&#162; that I'd like to see.


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## javabird (Oct 13, 2006)

Your poll really needs another category:

"Yes, and I've been able to successfully download and view it. I am happy with the results."


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

There is no way to change the poll once it has been added. I have not found a way to do it.

I do have it covered with this choice. So, I fail to see why there would even be a need for your suggestion.

_*Yes, but have never checked to see if I can download again.*_



javabird said:


> Your poll really needs another category:
> 
> "Yes, and I've been able to successfully download and view it. I am happy with the results."


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## javabird (Oct 13, 2006)

Except that "have never checked to see if can downloaded again" doesn't apply in my case.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Then I fail to see the relevance of bringing this up in the topic. Just because this has not happened to you yet, does not mean that it won't. You might be happy with one purchase but when this happens to you then you have one of the other options to choose. 



javabird said:


> Except that "have never checked to see if can downloaded again" doesn't apply in my case.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Now that I upgraded my second Tivo with 500 GB drive once Borat and the other movies which are currently restricted I will download and keep them on the TiVo probably forever, just as someone else said when Google videos stopped the downloads people were SOL. Luckily I got the $15 credit and bought Borat for $3.99 otherwise I would be more annoyed. I rented Borat and downloaded it but then either I deleted it or it got deleted due to space and I was fine as I thought I would be able to redownload it later since I owned it. If I knew that the newer movies could have a window in which I could not redownload it I would have kept it on my TiVo. Now every time I go to Blockbuster (which is a lot since I have Unlimited Total Access) and pass by Borat I am annoyed cause I still want to see the movie (yeah I am slacking) but I am not going to waste a in store exchange or mailed DVD as I already own the movie. I know this is not an Amazon or TiVo policy so I think a campaign needs to be started to write letters to the production companies and complain to them and find out what their answer is.


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## rodbac (Aug 16, 2005)

I've never used Amazon Unbox- is there an understanding that the download is a file you've purchased, or is there an implication that you're "purchasing" the right to view it anytime you want for time eternal?

Reading quickly through the thread, it sounds like they assumed you'd backup your movies, which indicates to me you had a file to backup (copy to DVD?), and that you were able to do so despite the DRM.

Is that the case?


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

rodbac said:


> Reading quickly through the thread, it sounds like they assumed you'd backup your movies, which indicates to me you had a file to backup (copy to DVD?), and that you were able to do so despite the DRM.


You can back up to a DVD but this is only after you download it to a PC (PC only) and then you will have to watch it on the PC with the Amazon player and that is after the licensing is downloaded/updated etc. If you download it to your TiVo there is no way to back it up (either to an additional TiVo or using TTG)


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## rodbac (Aug 16, 2005)

Einselen said:


> You can back up to a DVD but this is only after you download it to a PC (PC only) and then you will have to watch it on the PC with the Amazon player and that is after the licensing is downloaded/updated etc. If you download it to your TiVo there is no way to back it up (either to an additional TiVo or using TTG)


Interesting- thanks for the clarification.

I guess I'm just confused what the assumptions are on both sides. It sounds like Amazon assumed the OP should have backed up their movie, and like the OP assumed he didn't have to, that Amazon was the backup.

On a side note, I'm betting this DRM is exactly what drives half the piracy that takes place. They want you to pay to buy the movie, but they also want to retain control over the file they sell you.

If I ever use Amazon Unbox and they tell me it's basically up to me to keep my purchase available for me to view, I'll have zero issues with ripping the DRM off it.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Exactly, it's retarded that they told me to make the backup... especially when you're really not supposed to be able to.



rodbac said:


> Interesting- thanks for the clarification.
> 
> I guess I'm just confused what the assumptions are on both sides. It sounds like Amazon assumed the OP should have backed up their movie, and like the OP assumed he didn't have to, that Amazon was the backup.
> 
> ...


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## rodbac (Aug 16, 2005)

> Exactly, it's retarded that they told me to make the backup... especially when you're really not supposed to be able to.


Not just retarded- I'd say it's bordering on litigious. Probably not worth your trouble for a $4 movie, but you can bet there's a class-action in there somewhere unless they have their TOS written to cover issues like this (which wouldn't be surprising).

I may have to "buy" an Unbox movie today to see the TOS.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

rodbac said:


> I may have to "buy" an Unbox movie today to see the TOS.


You can view them, without an Amazon account, at  Unbox Video Terms of Use.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

I am a TiVo fan and would love to see the UNBOX downloads make money for TiVo. I would really like to swing my Netflix dollars to UNBOX/TiVo

BUT

the 24 hour window and all the other license nonsense have completely chilled me on even bothering to see what the 99 cent deals are. My family even says "Let's see if there is a movie to download. I would rather drive to blockbuster if I do not have a Netflix in house we want to watch. I find the license restrictions to be that bad.

UNBOX - you clearly need to push back on the content owners. Maybe even in concert with other download services. Simply stated; you will not see any of my money under the current license terms. 

TiVo - you clearly need to get involved in "streaming" movies to the TiVo. Netflix is adding lots of content under streaming and I would be ecstatic if I could do those on my TiVo instead of PC and thus anyone in the family could easily watch Netflix streams on the TV.


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## rodbac (Aug 16, 2005)

gonzotek said:


> You can view them, without an Amazon account, at  Unbox™ Video Terms of Use.


Thank you.

From there:



> b. Purchased Digital Content. Upon your payment of the license fee, Amazon grants you a non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited right and license to retain a permanent copy of Purchased Digital Content and to view, use, and privately display the Purchased Digital Content for Non-Commercial, Private Use as specified on the detail pages of the Purchased Digital Content or other help or informational pages of the Service at the time of your payment. You may exercise these rights on up to 2 (two) non-portable Authorized Devices (e.g. laptop or desktop computers, TiVo® DVRs) and two (2) portable Authorized Devices as specifically designated by Amazon from time to time. There can only be 1 (one) account for the Service on an Authorized Device. You may make a back-up copy of Purchased Digital Content on removable media (e.g. recordable DVD) or on an external hard drive in the same format as the original downloaded file to play on your permitted Authorized Devices. Any back-up copy of the Purchased Digital Content on a DVD will not be playable on a traditional DVD player, but only on a permitted Authorized Device.
> 
> c. Downloading and Risk of Loss. We encourage you to download Digital Content promptly after purchase. If you are unable to complete a download after having reviewed our online help resources, please contact Amazon customer service. You bear all risk of loss for completing the download of Digital Content after purchase, once we have made such content available to you (in Your Media Library or otherwise), and for any loss of Digital Content you have downloaded, including any loss due to a file corruption or a computer or hard drive crash. Purchased Digital Content will generally continue to be available in Your Media Library for download to a second of your Authorized Devices (or re-download to the first Authorized Device you designate for the content), but may become unavailable due to potential content provider licensing restrictions and for other reasons and Amazon will not be liable to you if content becomes unavailable for further download. Accordingly, we encourage you to make back-up copies of Purchased Digital Content as referenced above.


It appears the OP doesn't have a leg to stand on unless they've made it realistically impossible to back the file up.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

From a TiVo it _*is*_ realistically impossible to back the file up, and a PC backup can't be restored to the TiVo.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

To me that's the key point that makes buying Amazon Unbox videos a non-starter. I'm not really buying something if I can't even move it to my PC and keep a backup.


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## rodbac (Aug 16, 2005)

pdhenry said:


> From a TiVo it _*is*_ realistically impossible to back the file up, and a PC backup can't be restored to the TiVo.


Good to know. Gotta agree with the OP, then...


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

That does not in any way excuse them from telling me when exactly I can expect to be able to download these items again. The fact that they cannot even do that is the real issue here. I do not mind that I can't download them right away but I do however think that it is ridiculous that they cannot give me the date at which I can.

In my media library it should have the exact date that I can expect to download them again... as it stands now... I can only assume that I will never be able to watch the movies that I purchased.



rodbac said:


> Thank you.
> 
> From there:
> 
> It appears the OP doesn't have a leg to stand on unless they've made it realistically impossible to back the file up.


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## rodbac (Aug 16, 2005)

> That does not in any way excuse them from telling me when exactly I can expect to be able to download these items again. The fact that they cannot even do that is the real issue here. I do not mind that I can't download them right away but I do however think that it is ridiculous that they cannot give me the date at which I can.


Well, when I wrote what you quoted, it was done with the assumption that you could back your files up. Their TOS make it clear there should be no assumption on your part that you'll *ever* be able to get the movie from them again. As such, you shouldn't be surprised they're not spitting out a future date you can get it from them again- they never intended to "reissue" movies.

It's moot, though, if you couldn't back it up. They have to allow one or the other, it seems to me.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Ok, and reading the _fine print _ on this means that no one should ever buy a movie from them. Because they are the backup in my opinion.... otherwise I should just buy the box and save the hassle of making my own damn backup. That really actually makes no sense to me... even if they had a way for me to backup the damn movie... why should I? For all the hassle it makes better sense to just buy it at the store... it's the same price and I can watch it whenever I want.



rodbac said:


> Well, when I wrote what you quoted, it was done with the assumption that you could back your files up. Their TOS make it clear there should be no assumption on your part that you'll *ever* be able to get the movie from them again. As such, you shouldn't be surprised they're not spitting out a future date you can get it from them again- they never intended to "reissue" movies.
> 
> It's moot, though, if you couldn't back it up. They have to allow one or the other, it seems to me.


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## rodbac (Aug 16, 2005)

We don't disagree, magnus. If they don't make the pricing of an electronic purchase significantly lower than that of a hard copy, I don't see why they think anyone is going to tolerate their stupid DRM.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

jtlytle said:


> Since Amazon unbox movies don't include closed captioned, I dont bother buy them at all.


There absolutely no reason why closed captioned cannot be included in any video download. In fact the FCC has receive so many complaints regarding this that it has propose an amendment to the closed captioned requirement of the Americans with Disability Act. It would require that ANY device regardless of screen size which receives and display video of any size and by any means (over the air, wireless, downloaded from the internet) must be able to display closed captioned and ANY video transmitted by ANY means MUST included closed captioned.

This was one of my request in the recent Unbox survey sent by Amazon. I also requested the option to purchase the DVD while viewing the download. To me having the DVD make more since because too many things can go wrong with a digital copy of something.


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## syounger64 (Aug 13, 2004)

Same here! Their lame answers to my questions about the lack of captions only pisses me off!



jtlytle said:


> Since Amazon unbox movies don't include closed captioned, I dont bother buy them at all.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

It makes no sense to me that the studios want these blackouts. So instead of paying to "buy" the movie from Amazon, I can just record it off of HBO and burn it onto a DVD basically for free. Somehow, the online movie providers witholding something you purchased and therefore own doesn't seem kosher to me. It may be legal but it isn't right.


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## rodbac (Aug 16, 2005)

> Somehow, the online movie providers witholding something you purchased and therefore own doesn't seem kosher to me.


In light of the fact that they don't make it realistically possible to back your file up, you're right.

However, if it was possible to back the thing up, you'd have to think of your downloaded file as being like any other object you buy. In that case, it wouldn't be up to Amazon to make sure you never lost your purchase, I don't think.


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## sreeja (Mar 11, 2008)

No, there's too many problems with media downloads.


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## rodbac (Aug 16, 2005)

sreeja said:


> No, there's too many problems with media downloads.


Buying a download is more problematic than buying a loaf of bread, but if you have an issue getting the file, you have the ability to contact them right away (or even within a certain amount of time) and remedy that.

IOW, they do have an obligation to *get* the download to you successfully. Beyond that, though, unless they explicitly state otherwise, you should think of it like any other purchase.


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## justicejayant x (Mar 12, 2008)

Yes I have bought one but cannot download it again dont know why?

Jay


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## rodbac (Aug 16, 2005)

justicejayant x said:


> Yes I have bought one but cannot download it again dont know why?
> 
> Jay


Did they tell you you'd be able to download it again and again?


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

rodbac said:


> Did they tell you you'd be able to download it again and again?


Yes, with caveats.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=3748&#caption


> If you purchase Amazon Unbox Video, your rights to view the file do not expire, except as provided in our Unbox Video: Terms of Use. Purchased Unbox videos are generally available for redownload from Your Media Library and can be downloaded on up to 2 (two) different personal computers or TiVo DVRs and can be transferred to up to 2 (two) portable devices at any one time.
> 
> Please note that due to licensing restrictions certain new release movies are unavailable for redownload for an unspecified period of time starting 90 days after their release date. While these movies can be viewed as often as you like during this window, they cannot be redownloaded from Your Media Library.


It's the 'unspecified' wording that really does their service harm. From a purely technical POV, I expect they(Amazon) feel much the same as the consumers, it adds needless complexity and inconsistency to an otherwise decent video purchasing, librarying, and delivery system.


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## rodbac (Aug 16, 2005)

I'm not arguing, but I don't see anything there that indicates you're guaranteed to be able to re-download it at any point.

Picking key phrases, your rights to view the file don't expire, they're "generally" available for re-download, and certain new releases are guaranteed to NOT be available for re-download during certain period(s).

Did I miss something?


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## dylanemcgregor (Jan 31, 2003)

No, but generally available suggests to most people that they will be... you know...generally available. Obviously I think we are all agreed that the actual TOS allows for video to not be downloaded again during this blackout window. But when Unbox was launched much was made about the fact that for purchased items didn't have to be stored forever on your hard drive, instead they could be redownloaded from your media library. I don't recall any of the PR pieces saying that there would/could be blackout periods lasting 6 months or longer.

Personally for me, the idea of storing a purchased item remotely when it can still take 12 hours or so for me to download a movie...kind of negates the whole point of "owning" the movie anyway...so all the blackout period stuff provides is another reason to not do this.

If I could use my DVD burner in my TiVo to make a copy of the movie that I could play in any DVD player (ideally with special features, or without but for less money) then I would think about buying a movie. Without this it will remain a rental service only for me (except for a couple of TV show purchases that I think of as rentals, since I have no desire to watch them again).


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## rodbac (Aug 16, 2005)

> Obviously I think we are all agreed that the actual TOS allows for video to not be downloaded again during this blackout window.


Or ever, actually. It looks like many/most movies *are* still generally available, just not the ones being complained about?



> But when Unbox was launched much was made about the fact that for purchased items didn't have to be stored forever on your hard drive, instead they could be redownloaded from your media library.


In that case, we agree Amazon deserves the grief they're getting for this.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

rodbac said:


> In that case, we agree Amazon deserves the grief they're getting for this.


Notices regarding potential unavailability have been up at least since Unbox-on-TiVo launch week, as evidenced by this post:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4974989#post4974989

It's the rights' holders who are responsible for causing titles to go unavailable, they dictate the terms to Amazon, and dictate similar terms to all other legitimate video download services. None of these services can provide us with any video whatsoever without accepting the draconian Hollywood content policies, and as such, any grief should be directed to the true source of the problem: the studios that own the content. As I said in my last post, from a purely technical viewpoint, it doesn't give Amazon any advantages at all to limit the future download of purchased material. It causes ill-will among their consumers and adds complexity and inconsistency to their system. At Amazon's scale, the bandwidth costs for future (re)downloads should be negligible, and if not, could be recouped with a small re-transmission fee(something they are not currently doing for those videos which are available for re-download). The only reason they impose these terms on us is because they are required to, in order to provide the content at all.


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## rodbac (Aug 16, 2005)

_"In that case, we agree *whoever is responsible for them being unavailable* deserves the grief they're getting for this._

Better?


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Since Amazon is providing the service... they deserve the grief for not requiring that customers who have already purchased these titles... should be exempt from the blackout period. They should have worked with the content providers to make it so.

However, that said they should have at least agreed to terms that would make the blackout period known to the customer (and the date shown to them in their media library).

Since they have failed to secure a favorable contract for items already purchased... yes they do deserve the grief.... and they should work with the content providers to secure a more desirable contract.

*Original Post: 11-09-2007, 08:44 PM*, I'd say that qualifies for giving Amazon a lot of grief. There is no excuse for this and I would be extremely pissed if I had paid full price for these titles.



rodbac said:


> _"In that case, we agree *whoever is responsible for them being unavailable* deserves the grief they're getting for this._
> 
> Better?


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## Kaokulk (Feb 6, 2002)

I PURCHASED X-Men: The Last Stand, deleted a couple of weeks later, and now I cannot re-download it.

I purchased it on February 27, 2007.

That's right, over A YEAR ago.

How do I own it exactly?


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Wow, then there's no hope that I will ever get to watch the movies that I purchased. Maybe the window is 2 years!!!!


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## JasonJ75 (Sep 29, 2007)

Has anyone bought a movie w/ a CC instead of a GC and then asked for a refund when the couldn't re-download.

Just curious.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

another day, another reason to love Netflix


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Yup. These download services are a rip off compared to Netflix. I did use it several times with the 99&#162; sales they did, partly just for the novelty of it


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

So unbox downloads (rental, purchases and re-download of previous purchases) are restrcited when PPV, HBO, etc. have the rights to the movies. So why can I still rent them from blockbuster then? Also for those who have Netflix are you able to use their download service on these titles that are restricted to the other download services (Amazon, Movielink, etc.)?


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## pilotbob (Nov 8, 2007)

Einselen said:


> So unbox downloads (rental, purchases and re-download of previous purchases) are restrcited when PPV, HBO, etc. have the rights to the movies. So why can I still rent them from blockbuster then? Also for those who have Netflix are you able to use their download service on these titles that are restricted to the other download services (Amazon, Movielink, etc.)?


It is MPAA nievity. As you say, you can go rent the DVD and rip it. Also, if you downloaded your purchase and didn't delete it, you could still watch it during that time.

All these rules and DRM do is hurt the legitamate customers. Music stores and publishers have started to realize this, but the Movie and eBook industry want to repeat the whole process again. DRM does NOT stop piracy in any way.

BOb


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

pilotbob said:


> It is MPAA nievity. As you say, you can go rent the DVD and rip it. Also, if you downloaded your purchase and didn't delete it, you could still watch it during that time.
> 
> All these rules and DRM do is hurt the legitamate customers. Music stores and publishers have started to realize this, but the Movie and eBook industry want to repeat the whole process again. DRM does NOT stop piracy in any way.
> 
> BOb


Well I think the main thing is the netflix download bit. If they (movie companies) allow netflix to offer it via the interwebs and then go to Amazon, movielink, etc. isn't that a double standard?


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Wow- what a mess-

have you folks who are blocked written to your congressional representatives? I really think this goes to that level and its just so absurd they might get involved. 

someone needs to kick the MPAA in the friggin teeth.


To tell you the truth bot torrent and tivo desktop 2.6 might just fix all this. If i understand the blog posts with 2.6 you could set bit torrent to dump video to a 'podcast' folder and then as soon as the bit torrent client was done with it it would upload to the tivo. Someone would just need to make an HME app to control bit torrent on your pc and viola free movies to your hearts delight. Screw the MPAA.

these idiotic rules make people start thinking about using pirate methods like bit torrent. I've never used it in my life but I'm so annoyed by their actions i took the time to post this above.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Einselen said:


> Well I think the main thing is the netflix download bit. If they (movie companies) allow netflix to offer it via the interwebs and then go to Amazon, movielink, etc. isn't that a double standard?


for some reason stream and download are differnt to most content providers.

In this case it's just completely strange that there is a difference.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Interestingly, DirecTV is going to start enforcing similar restrictions on PPV. http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=387161



> Effective April 15, the guidelines for DVR Pay-Per-View movie recordings will change. Customers will still be able to enjoy the convenience and variety of PPV movie selection; however, they will only be available for viewing for 24 hours after the time of purchase.


My feeling is that this will take a path similar to digital music sales where DRM is becoming a thing of the past. Eventually the studios will recognize that there's more money to be made providing customers with what they want than by enforcing draconian rights clauses.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Still can't download movies that I paid for.... I wonder if I'm ever going to be able to watch them. Surely, they can't still be on PPV. Amazon should really do something about this. They need to at least allow people that previously purchased the movie... to have the ability to re-download.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Were you guys EVER able to download these?


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Nope, I did finally get Amazon to give me credits toward something else. I ended up watching the 2 of 3 programs elsewhere.



Adam1115 said:


> Were you guys EVER able to download these?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

WhiskeyTango said:


> It makes no sense to me that the studios want these blackouts. So instead of paying to "buy" the movie from Amazon, I can just record it off of HBO and burn it onto a DVD basically for free. Somehow, the online movie providers witholding something you purchased and therefore own doesn't seem kosher to me. It may be legal but it isn't right.


the whole licsense restrictions around buyng or renting from UNBOX has turned me off of downloads. Can only play on a few certified devices, 24 hours to watch a rental, blackout windows on purchased content.
The idea is to draw customers in with added value or betetr prices, not keep the same price as buying a DVD but then adding in way more restrictions.

You needed a poll option for "hate the DRM, sticking with Netflix" so I could vote


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## moxie1617 (Jan 5, 2004)

Adam1115 said:


> Were you guys EVER able to download these?


I was never able to re-download three titles that I purchased early on. What originally sold me was the ability to leave the title in my Media Library at Amazon. Never realized at the time that the title would never be available again.

The good thing about the experience was that I saw all the members praising Netflix so I signed up and have been using them since Feb.


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## nirisahn (Nov 19, 2005)

Where I would rent a download for immediate viewing, I would never buy a download as they currently exist. I want closed captioning and all the extras that come with the DVDs. Otherwise, I want it for a lot less than buying the DVD. Why would I buy a download that I can lose for the same price as a DVD with closed captioning, lots of extras, and I can copy it to my computer for back-up or portability without having to carry the DVDs around? I don't see the value in buying a download vs. a DVD, even though I need to have the physical space to store the DVD. And, if I get tired of the DVD, I can sell it in a yard sale or online and get some money back for it. AFAIK, I can't resell a download.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

And you're not "buying" anything with that download. It's just an extended rental. They're complete rip offs in every way compared to discs. Rentals...actually are total rips offs too, although if they were cheaper they'd be okay for some things (and I've rented a few things when they're on sale, and just kind of to try them).


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