# Tivo - A BAD Company to do business with!!



## routerspecialist (Jun 19, 2008)

So, I have a lemon. I actually own two Tivos (HD units). One is fine, the other is a turkey.

I purchased lifetime on both. Now when I tried to purchase another Tivo and transfer the lifetime, Tivo refused!!!!

Now I'm screwed. This is NOT a good company to do business with.

I even sent a letter to Tom Rodgers, and they're still refusing to allow the lifetime transfer.

Time to buy a Moxi, I guess. And for those of you considering whether to purchase a lifetime subscription, don't!!


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

If you just purchased lifetime, you have 30 days to cancel for a full refund.

If you've had the TivoHD for more than 30 days and less than 91 days, then TiVo will repair/replace it for free.

If you've had the TiVo for more than 90 days and less than one-year, then TiVo will repair/replace it for $49.

If you've had the TivoHD for more than one year, then you have several choices. If the drive in your TiVo died, you can replace it without affecting your subscription. If something else is wrong, you can get a refurbished replacement from TiVo for $149 and they will move lifetime over to that replacement at no charge, assuming you've had lifetime for less than three years.

Moxi's return/replacement policies are almost identical for the first year.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

routerspecialist said:


> So, I have a lemon. I actually own two Tivos (HD units). One is fine, the other is a turkey.
> 
> I purchased lifetime on both. Now when I tried to purchase another Tivo and transfer the lifetime, Tivo refused!!!!


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

if what bkdtv said is true ( I think it is since I've read that on here before) you just need to call back and talk to someone else. TiVo support can be real stupid about things and sometimes you just have to keep calling until you get someone that has a clue.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

I'm sure the OP has only given part of the story. How about how long you have had that "turkey" Tivo?


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

magnus said:


> I'm sure the OP has only given part of the story.


That's a good assumption online, regardless of the circumstances, regardless of how much we agree or disagree with what the poster is saying.

If someone is saying something on the Internet, that someone else could possibly disagree with, then you can rest assured that you don't have the full story.


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## NJ_HB (Mar 21, 2007)

routerspecialist said:


> So, I have a lemon. I actually own two Tivos (HD units). One is fine, the other is a turkey.
> 
> I purchased lifetime on both. Now when I tried to purchase another Tivo and transfer the lifetime, Tivo refused!!!!
> 
> ...


Try sending the letter to Tom's wife instead , rumour has it she is the true decission maker regarding LTs.


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## SueAnn (Oct 24, 2004)

Whem my Series3 died a heartbreaking death I was able to transfer my Lifetime subscription to a refurbished unit for only $149. 

I was polite to the CSR that helped me troubleshoot the issue and was so happy that I was only going to be without the unit until the replacement arrived 2 days later. Then TiVo helped me deal with Comcast via conference call in getting the cablecards swapped out and set back up. 

TiVo Rocks !


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

magnus said:


> I'm sure the OP has only given part of the story. How about how long you have had that "turkey" Tivo?


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6424735#post6424735
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7037521#post7037521
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7289111#post7289111


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Maybe the OP thinks that lifetime means for her lifetime?


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Hmmmm, maybe some sort of network issue with that box. Is one hard wired and the other wireless? Maybe it's losing network connection and causing the reboot. have they tried another network adapter?


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Sounds like a case of the OP not doing the research before buying the new Tivo.

Is it the hard drive that is bad on the "turkey" Tivo?


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

You can get your tivo fixed. http://www.weaknees.com/ can fix your tivo. unless the main-board is fried. what happens when you turn it on?



routerspecialist said:


> So, I have a lemon. I actually own two Tivos (HD units). One is fine, the other is a turkey.
> 
> I purchased lifetime on both. Now when I tried to purchase another Tivo and transfer the lifetime, Tivo refused!!!!
> 
> ...


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

There is no telling since they really did not give what makes it a "turkey". It could be the external hard drive or some network issue based on the previous links to their problem.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

I think that everyone mis-interpreted the OP statement when she called TiVo a BAD company. That is simply an acronym for Best Available DVR.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

fallingwater said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6424735#post6424735
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7037521#post7037521
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7289111#post7289111


So because she chose to "live with it" 8 months ago (at least) it's TiVo's fault.. umm ok..


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## routerspecialist (Jun 19, 2008)

Langree said:


> So because she chose to "live with it" 8 months ago (at least) it's TiVo's fault.. umm ok..


Yes, I chose to live with it, because I believed I would be able to fix it. After several attempts and numerous hard drives, I fully expected to be able to transfer the lifetime subscription if I needed to.


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## routerspecialist (Jun 19, 2008)

Turtleboy said:


> Maybe the OP thinks that lifetime means for her lifetime?


I'm right here. What do you want to say to me?


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

routerspecialist said:


> I fully expected to be able to transfer the lifetime subscription if I needed to.


Did you ever ask TiVo about that back in April or February? To find out the limitations and guidelines?


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

Sorry OP, I agree with the other posters. You haven't given us the whole story. It is $149 to get your unit fix. Pay it and deal with it.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

fatlard said:


> Sorry OP, I agree with the other posters. You haven't given us the whole story. It is $149 to get your unit fix. Pay it and deal with it.


That's a little harsh. If TiVo won't recognize the problem then they wouldn't honor the transfer.

Did you call TiVo about the issue and explain everything you did to try and fix it?


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

It doesn't sound good to me. The box has been opened and harddrives replaced. It would be easy for TiVo to say the unit was damaged by the user when the box was tampered with. Unless the total cost to produce the replacement unit is less than the $149 repair charge, even repairing the damaged unit would be a bad decision on TiVo's part, because it would set the precedent of replacing units which have been physically altered by the user. I don't know for sure, but I imagine it costs more than $149 to produce the replacement...


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## routerspecialist (Jun 19, 2008)

Stormspace said:


> That's a little harsh. If TiVo won't recognize the problem then they wouldn't honor the transfer.
> 
> Did you call TiVo about the issue and explain everything you did to try and fix it?


I did. If you've ever called their support, you'll know that the most they'll do is run you through kickstart procedures, and then suggest replacement. Sometimes they won't even offer that. In my letter, I went over all of the things I did. Had I known that I would have such trouble transferring the lifetime to a more reliable unit, I would have never purchased it. And, when I purchased it, I was told that if the unit began to experience failures, I would be able to transfer the lifetime to another unit.

But really, from a customer service standpoint, as the owner of two Tivos, both with lifetime subscriptions, I think that as a minimum Tivo would want to take care of repeat customers.

My post was about whether Tivo is a good company to do business with. I like the product, but I think the poor customer service trumps everything else. And I'm genuinely sorry to say that.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

routerspecialist said:


> I did. If you've ever called their support, you'll know that the most they'll do is run you through kickstart procedures, and then suggest replacement.
> 
> I was told that if the unit began to experience failures, I would be able to transfer the lifetime to another unit.


Wouldn't a replacement be a more reliable unit? Why won't you accept the replacement?


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## SpiritualPoet (Jan 14, 2007)

Even though the TiVo interface has no equivilence in the marketplace, TiVo as a company needs to know that when consumers have problems with rented DVRs from their cable operators, it's a simple matter of exchanging a problematic one for a non-problematic one. This lack of a huge headache that TiVo causes customers about the non-transferrable service plan from one machine to another will be to the demise of TiVo. This is perhaps the single biggest factor TiVo has lost thousands of customers; people who were given the shaft by TiVo. In the first few years of existance, the TiVo firm seemed to be gentler with the customers and made transfer "exceptions" to the normal policy. Those exceptions seem to be a thing of the past. Some company (Best Buy comes to mind) needs to offer a 5, 7, or 10 year extended service policy option on the hardware.) As long as an extended hardware plan on the hardware is in place, TiVo has agreed to point the lifetime service plan to a replacement machine. The question is, would a customer be willing to pay $150 - $200 for such a lengthy equipment insurance policy? After all, technology will continue to improve, with more bells and whistles added all the while. If people don't believe they are treated with a bit of respect, they will do business elsewhere even if sacrificing some of those bells and whistles. If TiVo as a firm doesn't do better with those who have lifetime plans in place, it might as well discontinue offering them, and simply force every new plan sold be for a fixed (but renewable) term.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=435685&highlight=tivo+losing+value

Please post if you have *new* information or a *new* question.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

What is a lemon? Normally, that would be something that went bad out of the box or soon thereafter.

I'm thinking there are a lot of missing facts here. Many questions have been asked by posters offering to help diagnose, but the OP has not responded to those.

I've mentioned this in other posts, but I'm still not understanding the sense of entitlement on electronics which go wrong (not just tivos, but laptops, iphones, ect). It would be great for those with problems to get special offers from Tivo, but they have no obligation to do so.


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

routerspecialist said:


> I did. If you've ever called their support, you'll know that the most they'll do is run you through kickstart procedures, and then suggest replacement. Sometimes they won't even offer that. In my letter, I went over all of the things I did. Had I known that I would have such trouble transferring the lifetime to a more reliable unit, I would have never purchased it. And, when I purchased it, I was told that if the unit began to experience failures, I would be able to transfer the lifetime to another unit.
> 
> But really, from a customer service standpoint, as the owner of two Tivos, both with lifetime subscriptions, I think that as a minimum Tivo would want to take care of repeat customers.
> 
> My post was about whether Tivo is a good company to do business with. I like the product, but I think the poor customer service trumps everything else. And I'm genuinely sorry to say that.


Have you gotten any indication as to what the problem is with your unit? A few other people mentioned that it may be a bad hard drive. If you are interested in preserving that lifetime subscription and keeping the unit alive, then repairing the unit may be a viable option. The article in my signature discusses how to diagnose the problem, definitively. There are also several ways to have the unit repaired, if you are interested.

Lou


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

I agree. The OP is not sharing the full story here.



orangeboy said:


> It doesn't sound good to me. The box has been opened and harddrives replaced. It would be easy for TiVo to say the unit was damaged by the user when the box was tampered with. Unless the total cost to produce the replacement unit is less than the $149 repair charge, even repairing the damaged unit would be a bad decision on TiVo's part, because it would set the precedent of replacing units which have been physically altered by the user. I don't know for sure, but I imagine it costs more than $149 to produce the replacement...


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

jrtroo said:


> What is a lemon? Normally, that would be something that went bad out of the box or soon thereafter.
> 
> I'm thinking there are a lot of missing facts here. Many questions have been asked by posters offering to help diagnose, but the OP has not responded to those.
> 
> I've mentioned this in other posts, but I'm still not understanding the sense of entitlement on electronics which go wrong (not just tivos, but laptops, iphones, ect). It would be great for those with problems to get special offers from Tivo, but they have no obligation to do so.


I agree 100% with this, in reviewing the OP's other posts, there's not a ton of info as to why *this* unit is a lemon or how, I see the OP does have the skill set to be doing drive replacements, and knowing the majority of the Tivo issues are drive related, I'd be heading there.

as they say, there are three sides to any story, your side, their side, and the truth.

I hate to be a naysayer to the OP, but just coming in here and ranting, while therapeutic, won't actually resolve any issues. Tivo does not transfer lifetime, this isn't something new or hidden, so coming in and ranting about them not doing that isn't going to accomplish more then a lot of us saying "and your point is?..."

Diane


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## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

I think what every lifetime subscriber needs to understand is that the lifetime business model is flawed from a consumer standpoint. Think about it&#8230; if every TiVo user was lifetimed, and the boxes didn't fail, TiVo would be out of business. You can't keep providing a service, that costs you money to deliver, indefinitely for free. TiVo is counting on them to fail within 4 years. Because of this model we haven't seen&#8230;

1.) Better quality hardware.

2.) Easily serviceable units. 

Lifetime is a gamble. Your machine lasts longer than 3-4 years you're up. If it doesn't, your down. Lifetimers are betting that their units will last; TiVo is betting they won't. Lifetimers must understand that they are trying to save money by betting against TiVo's carefully calculated odds. This is not comparable to the cable companies, and their willingness to bring out a new unit if you have trouble, because you are paying them a monthly fee for its use. They get that every month for as long as you have the box. After 3-4 years, TiVo is actually losing money on lifetimers compared to other customers. This is why their development is seemingly focused on ad placement and content delivery as that is the only way they can continue to generate revenue from lifetimers.

I don't like the lifetime subscription model; I think it hurts both the company and the consumer in the long run. TiVo has little incentive to innovate and develop the features users are requesting if they are all lifetimers, and I think this has been pretty apparent over the last 5 years. And there is the financial incentive to see that lifetime subscriptions expire (with the hardware) that creates a lot of ill will from consumers.

For me&#8230; I wish we had better hardware, better software, and that all users would be required to pay monthly for its continued development.


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## jfstx (Aug 26, 2005)

I have 2 s2's and 2 hd's. Upgraded one of the hd's hard drive myself. Other than the learning curve of doing it myself, mine have been flawless. I also have a wd dvr ext hard drive hooked up. I found this board several years ago and have learned so much. So kudos to those trying to help. the op, needs to research this problem out before being so negative towards TIVO.


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## TiVoEvan74 (Sep 11, 2004)

I'm confused about why a transfer would be expected. It's utterly clear that lifetime service pertains to the specific Tivo and is not transferable. I have bought lifetime service 3 times... it's well worth it, and I did so knowing that it was not the same as a lifetime warranty. We still have 2 of them and sold the third.

If one of my hard drives fail, I'll either have Tivo fix it, or get weakknees to do it-- or find someone locally who can do the swap. (Many folks can do it themselves.) I'll have to do that to keep l.s.

If I buy a newer unit, I know that l.s. will have to bought anew, although Tivo does provide a discount for l.s. if you have had a machine for a year or three. It also has provided a discounted monthly fee if you have more than one Tivo activated. And, in some cases, they will even permit transfer.

Now, if your Tivo really is a lemon, then there are state lemon laws that might help you get a replacement. Or maybe your credit card has an extended warranty protection that applies.

Look, if you're dissatisfied with the bad one, you could probably unload it on ebay (or here even better) and get a chunk of change for it because it has l.s.

I'm generally very pro-consumer rights and fairly quick to point out company foibles, but labeling Tivo a BAD company for failing to do something they never promised to do really is unfair. [Or have I just fallen for a troll?]

Many battles are worth fighting; others are not (even when you're in the right). Others simply have no justification. This is one of those. Sorry!


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## donnoh (Mar 7, 2008)

Here's my take on complaining to customer service.
If you have a legitimate complaint most companies will listen and do the right thing. If there are extenuating circumstances most companies will do the right thing.
If you call and ***** because you want something for nothing you'll get nothing.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Indeed. And folks need to understand that "the right thing" is what the company promised you, not what you necessarily wanted.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

My take on it - if for any reason you believe that company is bad, don't argue with the people who do not share your opinion. Right or wrong, you only have one remedy available to you to show your dissatisfaction - do not buy products from the company. Proclaiming on Internet that ABCD Inc sucks doesn't do anything to hurt the company. Walmart has been proclaimed evil for many years, but they are one of the few retailers left that make profit.
If enough people share your opinion, the company will start losing customers and will eventually go out of business. If you are part of the small minority, then the only satisfaction you can get is to know that you didn't throw good money after bad.


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## SpiritualPoet (Jan 14, 2007)

For what it's worth, my first TiVo (a series one made by Philips which was the only one made originally), lasted almost 8 years before experiencing hard drive failure. It was lifetimed from the start. Did I get my money's worth? You betcha. Of course, more recent models have lots more (features) to offer. They are worth far more for these amenities, regardless of whether they are on a lifetime plan or not. I believe in protection of my financial assets. I will risk the gamble of a lifetime plan in place. I take my chances. If I lose, I lose. But TiVo? It's the clear winner. I'm referring to the machine and the capabilities of it, not necessarily the firm. As long as the firm is around, so will I be a TiVo customer.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

solutionsetc said:


> I don't like the lifetime subscription model; I think it hurts both the company and the consumer in the long run. TiVo has little incentive to innovate and develop the features users are requesting if they are all lifetimers, and I think this has been pretty apparent over the last 5 years. And there is the financial incentive to see that lifetime subscriptions expire (with the hardware) that creates a lot of ill will from consumers.


I still use a phone built at least 40 years ago, AT&T's interest was to collect the equipment rental as long as possible without it wearing out and needing replaced.

The only thing I want from the cable company is reliable service. It's their business model that wants to push a plethora of add-on services requiring a new STB, not something requested by me.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

routerspecialist said:


> I purchased lifetime on both. Now when I tried to purchase another Tivo and transfer the lifetime, Tivo refused!!!!


If you purchase another TiVo that's the exact same model, you can transfer your lifetime subscription to it online for free. I'm not sure I see what the issue is?


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## routerspecialist (Jun 19, 2008)

dianebrat said:


> I agree 100% with this, in reviewing the OP's other posts, there's not a ton of info as to why *this* unit is a lemon or how, I see the OP does have the skill set to be doing drive replacements, and knowing the majority of the Tivo issues are drive related, I'd be heading there.
> 
> as they say, there are three sides to any story, your side, their side, and the truth.
> 
> ...


Let me repeat: when I purchased the lifetime subscription I was told I could transfer it IF there was a problem with the unit. And, as I've noted before, I've had several drives in the unit. None has corrected the problem. Is it the power supply? The motherboard? I don't know, actually.

And my point? My point is that Tivo made promises that they won't keep. I actually wanted to purchase a newer Tivo and transfer the lifetime to it, but they refused.

My overall point is that makes Tivo a poor company to invest several hundred dollars with - especially for a repeat customer.

You disagree? Fine. You're entitled to your opinion.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

routerspecialist said:


> Let me repeat: when I purchased the lifetime subscription I was told I could transfer it IF there was a problem with the unit. .


For free?

Who told you that?

This is the part that no one believes, because it has never been Tivo's policy ever.


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## routerspecialist (Jun 19, 2008)

Turtleboy said:


> For free?
> 
> Who told you that?
> 
> This is the part that no one believes, because it has never been Tivo's policy ever.


A Tivo customer service rep who I talked with when I had issues. He clearly stated that it is allowable if, early into the lifetime subscription, there are significant issues with the Tivo.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

routerspecialist said:


> A Tivo customer service rep who I talked with when I had issues. He clearly stated that it is allowable if, early into the lifetime subscription, there are significant issues with the Tivo.


And that is 100% true. As I've stated, you can transfer the lifetime subscription to another TiVo right from your online account as long as the new TiVo is the exact same model. I don't understand the problem here.


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## jkates (Jun 12, 2002)

I have heard that you have a lemon Tivo, but what is wrong with it?

My brother had his S2 go south after many many years, I ordered a new power supply and swapped it out. You state that you have swapped drives out etc. The tivo doesn't have that many parts. I would suggest posting more detail. Tivo is a great company with an excellent product.

I would wish that you would provide some detail to your issues as calling them bad doesn't help.

-Jason​


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

They're not going to provide details. I've asked several times and all they say is that they've changed the hard drives several times.

They also state that Tivo told them that they could do this but only got that from some rep over the phone. I'm sure if they had cared to look at the Tivo website that they would see that this is not the case. The Lifetime is technically not supposed to be able to be transferred to another box. It's just a classic case of a gambler losing a bet.



jkates said:


> I have heard that you have a lemon Tivo, but what is wrong with it?
> 
> My brother had his S2 go south after many many years, I ordered a new power supply and swapped it out. You state that you have swapped drives out etc. The tivo doesn't have that many parts. I would suggest posting more detail. Tivo is a great company with an excellent product.
> 
> ...


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

generaltso said:


> If you purchase another TiVo that's the exact same model, you can transfer your lifetime subscription to it online for free. I'm not sure I see what the issue is?


The issue and the problem is that you continue to provide false information. Lifetime cannot be transferred to another unit, unless it was replaced by TiVo under warranty.


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## routerspecialist (Jun 19, 2008)

jkates said:


> I have heard that you have a lemon Tivo, but what is wrong with it?
> 
> My brother had his S2 go south after many many years, I ordered a new power supply and swapped it out. You state that you have swapped drives out etc. The tivo doesn't have that many parts. I would suggest posting more detail. Tivo is a great company with an excellent product.
> 
> ...


Here's what I think. And what my post is about. I've spent hours troubleshooting the issue on the one Tivo, and hours on the phone with Tivo reps. I don't really know what's wrong, and neither do they. I'm not posting about troubleshooting any further. The post is about Tivo's failure in their commitment to me.


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

jrm01 said:


> The issue and the problem is that you continue to provide false information. Lifetime cannot be transferred to another unit, unless it was replaced by TiVo under warranty.


Actually, the unit does not have to be replaced by TiVo; I've done this with several customers who have had bad units. It does have to be the same make and model of unit. And I do believe the unit still has to be replaced within the warranty period (that is the part I'm not so sure about).


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## routerspecialist (Jun 19, 2008)

magnus said:


> They're not going to provide details. I've asked several times and all they say is that they've changed the hard drives several times.
> 
> They also state that Tivo told them that they could do this but only got that from some rep over the phone. I'm sure if they had cared to look at the Tivo website that they would see that this is not the case. The Lifetime is technically not supposed to be able to be transferred to another box. It's just a classic case of a gambler losing a bet.


I would only suggest that you review what my post is about. It's about is this a good company to do business with. If you think they are, good for you. I respectfully disagree. And I have put enough details in my original post and responses to give any reasonable person enough background on what the post is about.

And, just to review, in case you didn't get it, it's about whether Tivo's customer service makes them a good company to invest several hundred dollars with. I think they're not.


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

routerspecialist said:


> And, as I've noted before, I've had several drives in the unit. None has corrected the problem. Is it the power supply? The motherboard? I don't know, actually.


I actually missed this part. Once you've opened the unit, your warranty is null and void. So by not allowing you to transfer your lifetime, they are being consistent with their policies. Perhaps the rep who told you that you can transfer your sub did not know this. It doesn't sound like you did know this when you opened your unit. And if a 3rd party did this for you, hopefully they made you aware of that and/or are assuming the warranty for you.

Lou


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

generaltso said:


> As I've stated, you can transfer the lifetime subscription to another TiVo right from your online account as long as the new TiVo is the exact same model. I don't understand the problem here.


Looks like someone needs to go back and read bkdtv's post.
Nevermind, I'll quote it.



bkdtv said:


> If you just purchased lifetime, you have 30 days to cancel for a full refund.
> 
> If you've had the TivoHD for more than 30 days and less than 91 days, then TiVo will repair/replace it for free.
> 
> ...


And I think there is an additional charge if the lifetime is more than 3 years old ($199 ??)
A lifetime transfer has to be done through Tivo.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

I think that's the point that the OP is missing. Once you've opened it... all bets are off. They gambled and lost.



tivoupgrade said:


> I actually missed this part. Once you've opened the unit, your warranty is null and void. So by not allowing you to transfer your lifetime, they are being consistent with their policies. Perhaps the rep who told you that you can transfer your sub did not know this. It doesn't sound like you did know this when you opened your unit. And if a 3rd party did this for you, hopefully they made you aware of that and/or are assuming the warranty for you.
> 
> Lou


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Perhaps you should read what your post is about. It's about whining that you think that Tivo owes you this. Perhaps that Tivo rep did not realize that you mucked around with the inner workings of your Tivo when they made that statement. Who really knows... you're only giving one side to the whole thing and not thinking about Tivo's side at all.



routerspecialist said:


> I would only suggest that you review what my post is about. It's about is this a good company to do business with. If you think they are, good for you. I respectfully disagree. And I have put enough details in my original post and responses to give any reasonable person enough background on what the post is about.
> 
> And, just to review, in case you didn't get it, it's about whether Tivo's customer service makes them a good company to invest several hundred dollars with. I think they're not.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

jrm01 said:


> The issue and the problem is that you continue to provide false information. Lifetime cannot be transferred to another unit, unless it was replaced by TiVo under warranty.


There's an option to do it right in your TiVo account options. The option exists so that you can transfer the lifetime if your TiVo dies and you exchange it for a new one at a retail store. I've done it twice using this option, so I'm not sure why this is false information?

Here's what it says about this option on the TiVo site:

_You can change your TiVo service number online if either of these situations apply:

* You activated your DVR and then exchanged it through your retailer or through the manufacturer and now need to update the TiVo service number on your account
* You need to correct the TiVo service number that you initially activated_


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

steve614 said:


> Looks like someone needs to go back and read bkdtv's post.
> 
> And I think there is an additional charge if the lifetime is more than 3 years old ($199 ??)
> A lifetime transfer has to be done through Tivo.


I read the post, and I understand TiVo's policies. However, there is in fact an option to transfer a lifetime subscription to another box as long as it's the same model. Look for "Change Service Number" under "My Account". Why do people keep saying I'm wrong? Have you tried this option through your account online and found it not to work? It's worked fine for me....TWICE.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Maybe because the two statements above this one from Tivo say the 2 reasons that they are allowing this. And the one reason that the OP has does not apply. Maybe it's doing what is ethical and what is not. Who knows? I've not tried this or had a reason to think that I needed to try it.



generaltso said:


> I read the post, and I understand TiVo's policies. However, there is in fact an option to transfer a lifetime subscription to another box as long as it's the same model. Look for "Change Service Number" under "My Account". Why do people keep saying I'm wrong? Have you tried this option through your account online and found it not to work? It's worked fine for me....TWICE.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

magnus said:


> Maybe because the two statements above this one from Tivo say the 2 reasons that they are allowing this. And the one reason that the OP has does not apply. Maybe it's doing what is ethical and what is not. Who knows? I've not tried this or had a reason to think that I needed to try it.


I can't say whether the OP should qualify for this or not. I guess it depends on whether or not buying a new box at retail to replace a broken box is close enough to "exchanging" a box at retail. The end result is the same except that you're actually buying two boxes instead of one, so I don't see why it shouldn't qualify. Regardless, it works so I still don't see how it's false information.

Is it possible to replace your TiVo when it breaks and transfer the lifetime service to the new box? YES. Not only is it possible, but it's very easy to do it online without having to talk to anybody. If people think that this is unethical, that's fine. But that doesn't make it false information.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

generaltso said:


> I read the post, and I understand TiVo's policies. However, there is in fact an option to transfer a lifetime subscription to another box as long as it's the same model. Look for "Change Service Number" under "My Account". Why do people keep saying I'm wrong? Have you tried this option through your account online and found it not to work? It's worked fine for me....TWICE.


Possibly TiVo has a bug in their implementation now, but this has never worked with lifetime in the past except if the TiVo is within the first 30 day window (I don't even think it is the 90 day window). A number of folks have tried it and failed (again with lifetime - it works fine with other subs).


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

generaltso said:


> I can't say whether the OP should qualify for this or not. I guess it depends on whether or not buying a new box at retail to replace a broken box is close enough to "exchanging" a box at retail. The end result is the same except that you're actually buying two boxes instead of one, so I don't see why it shouldn't qualify. Regardless, it works so I still don't see how it's false information.
> 
> Is it possible to replace your TiVo when it breaks and transfer the lifetime service to the new box? YES. Not only is it possible, but it's very easy to do it online without having to talk to anybody. If people think that this is unethical, that's fine. But that doesn't make it false information.


I would not consider purchasing a new box to replace a damaged box an exchange. To me, an exchange would imply the damaged unit was returned and a new unit was given. Doing what you suggest costs TiVo money by artificially extending the life of the box (by replacing the hardware) that has a Lifetime Service plan.

When you did this (twice), was the hardware eventually returned to TiVo (either by yourself or a retailer)?


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## TiVoEvan74 (Sep 11, 2004)

"A Tivo customer service rep who I talked with when I had issues. He clearly stated that it is allowable if, early into the lifetime subscription, there are significant issues with the Tivo"

I'm sympathetic when a rep offers something and later it turns out it wasn't correct or wasn't fulfilled. Did you get the person's name? It's too bad, and I'm sure you're now kicking yourself, that you didn't take advantage of that offer right then and there! If 8 months go by, and you haven't the name or a record, or the offer in writing, you really are stuck!

Plus when you originally bought the lifetime, was there any text stating stating that you could transfer it? If not, there's little you can do. 

It's NOT the company that's BAD--their lifetime service policies are well stated. Your umbrage should be directed at the rep or at yourself for not grabbing the offer when it was made.

This is one of those life lessons-- it's the hard cold print that matters-- the documentation and web page should be saved. That's the only thing that will give you a decent shot at getting what you've been promised! As they say, "Put it in writing." (Or now, save that web page!)

My advice would be to find someone who fixes Tivos and have them see what they can do for--you could end up with a Tivo with a larger hard drive and lifetime service to boot. And if that doesn't work, sell it and buy a new one (getting the $100 l.s. discount).


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

orangeboy said:


> Doing what you suggest costs TiVo money by artificially extending the life of the box (by replacing the hardware) that has a Lifetime Service plan.


I'm not going to get into a debate as to whether this is ethical or not. I was simply pointing out that the options exists. That's it.

And, by the way, yes both of my units were exchanged for working units at Costco. Their return policy is very generous.


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## routerspecialist (Jun 19, 2008)

TiVoEvan74 said:


> "A Tivo customer service rep who I talked with when I had issues. He clearly stated that it is allowable if, early into the lifetime subscription, there are significant issues with the Tivo"
> 
> I'm sympathetic when a rep offers something and later it turns out it wasn't correct or wasn't fulfilled. Did you get the person's name? It's too bad, and I'm sure you're now kicking yourself, that you didn't take advantage of that offer right then and there! If 8 months go by, and you haven't the name or a record, or the offer in writing, you really are stuck!
> 
> ...


Well, I don't terribly much disagree with a lot of what you say, actually. But, again, my post is about whether this is a company that is good to do business with. My take is that they are not. And customer service is important to me. So, my next purchase will be, in all probablity, a Moxi.

Remember, I didn't ask them for a warranty repair. All I wanted to do is buy a new Tivo (I was going to purchase an HD XL), and be allowed to transfer the lifetime to it. I thought that would be win-win.

Well, now, I'm not purchasing anything Tivo - no HD, no HD XL, no nothing. I just don't think they're a good company to do business with.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

routerspecialist said:


> Remember, I didn't ask them for a warranty repair. All I wanted to do is buy a new Tivo (I was going to purchase an HD XL), and be allowed to transfer the lifetime to it. I thought that would be win-win.


This is clearly not covered under the product lifetime service policy. If something someone told you seemed to indicate that it was, they were mistaken. TiVo has no way of knowing whether someone misinformed you, whether you misunderstood, or whether you just want something that you're not entitled to. Ultimately it shouldn't matter. It's not fair for everyone else to change the rules just for you.

If you feel that's unjustified then you're perfectly right to seek other options. I don't agree that abiding by their policies makes TiVo a bad company to do business with.

The good news is that if you switch to Moxi the service cost is built into the box. So there shouldn't be any such confusion in their case. Let us know how it works out.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

generaltso said:


> Because this is the first sentence under TiVo's instructions on how to transfer service:
> 
> 
> 
> > You can transfer any monthly or prepaid TiVo Service Payment Plan *except Product Lifetime *Service to another TiVo DVR at any time.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Yep, we've discussed the ethical issues with Costco's return policy which is not a warranty. It's technically not ethical to transfer the lifetime under that circumstance but I guess that's only my opinion. 

Personally, I think it's a bit much to "expect" to return something to a store when it's been over a year (and you've not explicitly paid for an extended warranty).


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

magnus said:


> Yep, we've discussed the ethical issues with Costco's return policy which is not a warranty. It's technically not ethical to transfer the lifetime under that circumstance but I guess that's only my opinion.
> 
> Personally, I think it's a bit much to "expect" to return something to a store when it's been over a year (and you've not explicitly paid for an extended warranty).


It hasn't even been stated (in this thread) if anything has actually been returned to a store.


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## TivoCentral (Jul 23, 2006)

solutionsetc said:


> I think what every lifetime subscriber needs to understand is that the lifetime business model is flawed from a consumer standpoint. Think about it if every TiVo user was lifetimed, and the boxes didn't fail, TiVo would be out of business. You can't keep providing a service, that costs you money to deliver, indefinitely for free. TiVo is counting on them to fail within 4 years.


TiVo, Lifetime option and all, is still THE brand in DVRs... not Motorola, not Comcast, not Moxi... nearly everyone knows what TiVo is, and most people (with all due respect to OP) have a positive impression of the brand. To many people, TiVo, with its superior UI, is to DVRs what "Kleenex" is to tissues and "Google" is to search.

Lifetime is brilliant in this context... People who don't do the math, don't understand the technology, don't see a future in it, or don't realize that TiVo is such a dominant brand (or who just don't have the upfront cash), may choose to go with a monthly/annual fee, even though the economics indicate otherwise. *Solutionsetc* is correct here --- these are the folks who pay for R&D, just like all the cable box renters are making those providers rich.

People who ARE enthusiasts of the brand and/or technology go with Lifetime, both due to the economics, and to reinforce their brand loyalty to themselves and others. What a great marketing strategy to maximize loyalists --- who, by the way, are usually opinion leaders who influence others' technology purchases.

And better yet for TiVo, these enthusiasts are also the first ones to ditch their S1 for an S2... then S2 for S3/HD... often limiting their unprofitable long-term use of their old technology, and getting some more Lifetime Sub $ from these folks every few years.

And I don't think most TiVos go out of use because they typically "fail within 4 years" --- with no moving parts other than HD, they're highly reliable. Most units are probably retired to the closet when the owner either upgrades or switches technologies. Of 8 units I've owned since 1999, I've had 0 bad HDs and 1 bad motherboard.

Lifetime isn't TiVo's business model (I'm sure most subscribers aren't Lifetime) --- it's all about good marketing.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Um, actually is has but that's okay.



orangeboy said:


> It hasn't even been stated (in this thread) if anything has actually been returned to a store.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

magnus said:


> Um, actually is has but that's okay.


Yep, my apologies. When I had asked this question and didn't get a reply, I did what you're not supposed to do and "assumed":



orangeboy said:


> When you did this (twice), was the hardware eventually returned to TiVo (either by yourself or a retailer)?


My assumption was that a new unit was purchased, and the damaged unit shelved or discarded. After re-reading the post I had questioned, it was stated "exchange it for a new one at a retail store". It was unclear to me of whether the damaged units were actually exchanged at a retail store, or if it was only the TSN update that had occurred twice.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

routerspecialist said:


> Remember, I didn't ask them for a warranty repair. All I wanted to do is buy a new Tivo (I was going to purchase an HD XL), and be allowed to transfer the lifetime to it. I thought that would be win-win.
> 
> Well, now, I'm not purchasing anything Tivo - no HD, no HD XL, no nothing. I just don't think they're a good company to do business with.


"All you want to do" is go around their policies and upgrade to a different model. Lifetime has never worked that way. If you truly just wanted your TiVo fixed, you'd have TiVo replace it for the discounted price and they'd transfer Lifetime.

You say you're mad that you're having all these problems and they won't fix it, yet you say you didn't ask for a warranty repair. That makes no sense.

Did you really think the CSR that told you that if you had a problem they would transfer it to another unit meant "You don't even have to tell us about the problem, just go buy whatever you want and we'll transfer it?"

If you had simply worked within the paramaters of the system you'd have a working TiVo HD with lifetime.

Anyway, good luck with your Moxi. Spending $499 on a Moxi when you could get yours fixed for what, $49? Doesn't make much sense.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

TivoCentral said:


> Lifetime is brilliant in this context... People who don't do the math, don't understand the technology, don't see a future in it, or don't realize that TiVo is such a dominant brand (or who just don't have the upfront cash), may choose to go with a monthly/annual fee....





TivoCentral said:


> And better yet for TiVo, these enthusiasts are also the first ones to ditch their S1 for an S2... then S2 for S3/HD... often limiting their unprofitable long-term use of their old technology, and getting some more Lifetime Sub $ from these folks every few years.


Well actually those of us who were early adopters got SCREWED by TiVo. They discontinued lifetime and stated numerous times that it would not be back.

When I paid $700 for my series 3, I would've LOVED to buy lifetime. They didn't offer it. Monthly service on a 1 year commitment would've been $19.99/mo. I pre-paid for 3 years for $299. That's right. I have a $1,000 Series 3 that's about to go month to month. I "did the math" and I got screwed by TiVo.


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## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

Adam1115 said:


> Well actually those of us who were early adopters got SCREWED by TiVo.


*Rule of thumb; early adopters get screwed.* $400 driver; $600 iPhone; $5000 HDTV. Hell I remember spending the better part of two grand for a 100 MB hard drive, and almost that much for a megabyte of RAM.

You have to weigh the value of having it now, as opposed to waiting. Sometimes it's worth it; other times not so much.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

solutionsetc said:


> *Rule of thumb; early adopters get screwed.* $400 driver; $600 iPhone; $5000 HDTV. Hell I remember spending the better part of two grand for a 100 MB hard drive, and almost that much for a megabyte of RAM.
> 
> You have to weigh the value of having it now, as opposed to waiting. Sometimes it's worth it; other times not so much.


No problem with paying a premium for being an early adopter.

My problem was that TiVo said over and over that lifetime was gone for good. They actually lied about it.

But that's fine. My TiVo's just went month to month. Will I pay $23/mo for DVR service? We'll see. Sort of depends on Comcast and their analog shutoff.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Adam1115 said:


> No problem with paying a premium for being an early adopter.
> 
> My problem was that TiVo said over and over that lifetime was gone for good. They actually lied about it.


Did they really say "It will never be back" or did they just say "We have no plans to bring it back?"


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## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

Adam1115 said:


> My problem was that TiVo said over and over that lifetime was gone for good. They actually lied about it.


I don't believe TiVo "lied" about it; meaning they told folks lifetime service was no longer available while knowing (at the time) that wouldn't be the case. My recollection is that TiVo wanted out of lifetime service as they felt it was decreasing revenues due to:

1.) Units were being used well after the 3-4 year payout period lifetime was supposed to support.

2.) Lifetimed units were selling at a premium on eBay, but for much less than new limetimed units available from TiVo (and this fact was often promoted by TiVo users in various online forums).

This meant less subscription revenue and new subscribers (lifetime or otherwise) for TiVo. Some of this could have been avoided if TiVo would not have passed lifetime subscriptions to second hand buyers.

But the TiVo community made a pretty big stink over this. And the fact that TiVo's biggest competitor at the time (Replay TV) was still offering lifetime, pretty much forced TiVo to re-adopt lifetime service to compete.


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## ohboy710 (Jun 30, 2008)

I agree that the lifetime subscription is not a good idea. If Tivo doesn't go out of business because of all their competitors, they will continue to produce more units with more features and therefore you will want the newest unit so buying a lifetime is probably not worth it. 

As far as TIVO support goes, I have been pretty impressed with them actually. I do however not like the fact that their warranties are not very long. They should make quality units and give them at least a 2 year full warranty instead of this 90 day stuff that I see a lot.


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## Leon WIlkinson (Feb 13, 2000)

Ok the QUESTION to clear this all up, How old is your TiVo? If it is 2-4months old I could see your point of view on things...


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

nrc said:


> Did they really say "It will never be back" or did they just say "We have no plans to bring it back?"


Lie was a poor choice of words.

It *seemed* like they were discontinuing lifetime and jacking up the prices to get the S3 adopters locked into a monthly fee. Once that wore off, they brought the prices back down and reintroduced lifetime.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

I was only commenting on the 'people who can't do the math' comment, the pricing back then was a tad more chaotic...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=290514


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

tivoupgrade said:


> Actually, the unit does not have to be replaced by TiVo; I've done this with several customers who have had bad units. It does have to be the same make and model of unit. And I do believe the unit still has to be replaced within the warranty period (that is the part I'm not so sure about).


Within the first 30 days the lifetime xfer can be made to any TiVo model, that because that is easier than giving you your money back, and having you re-purchase the lifetime on another TiVo.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

CrispyCritter said:


> Possibly TiVo has a bug in their implementation now, but this has never worked with lifetime in the past except if the TiVo is within the first 30 day window (I don't even think it is the 90 day window). A number of folks have tried it and failed (again with lifetime - it works fine with other subs).


It does work with some limitations I will not go into BUT, it will work all the time if the first 7 digits in the TSN are the same, that lifetime xfer will never fail.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Adam1115 said:


> Lie was a poor choice of words.


Indeed, changing it from the reality, there being no fault, into it sounding like _they _did something _wrong_. Definitely a poor choice of words.

We early adopters who selected monthly service did so ourselves. No one forced us to buy a S3. The responsibility for the decision to do so, and for committing to the service plan that was available to us at the time, is our own, and our own alone.


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## TivoCentral (Jul 23, 2006)

TivoCentral said:


> Lifetime is brilliant in this context... People who don't do the math, don't understand the technology, don't see a future in it, or don't realize that TiVo is such a dominant brand (or who just don't have the upfront cash), may choose to go with a monthly/annual fee, even though the economics indicate otherwise. *Solutionsetc* is correct here --- these are the folks who pay for R&D, just like all the cable box renters are making those providers rich.
> 
> People who ARE enthusiasts of the brand and/or technology go with Lifetime, both due to the economics, and to reinforce their brand loyalty to themselves and others. What a great marketing strategy to maximize loyalists --- who, by the way, are usually opinion leaders who influence others' technology purchases.
> 
> Lifetime isn't TiVo's business model (I'm sure most subscribers aren't Lifetime) --- it's all about good marketing.





Adam1115 said:


> Well actually those of us who were early adopters got SCREWED by TiVo. They discontinued lifetime and stated numerous times that it would not be back.
> 
> When I paid $700 for my series 3, I would've LOVED to buy lifetime. They didn't offer it. Monthly service on a 1 year commitment would've been $19.99/mo. I pre-paid for 3 years for $299. That's right. I have a $1,000 Series 3 that's about to go month to month. I "did the math" and I got screwed by TiVo.


My apologies... I forgot about that. I absolutely agree with you about the ugly "no Lifetime" period. I was an early adopter in 1999 (splurging $199 on Lifetime), but with S2 and then with S3/HD, I waited a couple of years before upgrading. So while I was aware of the "no Lifetime" fiasco, I never had to go monthly or annual (or 3-year... ugh!), which is very  $.

Of course, all this may be a moot point in Jan if TiVo announces a deal in the US similar to the one last week with Virgin. While our S1s, 2s, and 3s may live forever, TiVo may become "the technology within the technology." At least it would be a good way of getting out of the hardware business, which seems to be OP's point... that it's not their strong suit.


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## 84lion (Jan 23, 2009)

solutionsetc said:


> I think what every lifetime subscriber needs to understand is that the lifetime business model is flawed from a consumer standpoint. Think about it if every TiVo user was lifetimed, and the boxes didn't fail, TiVo would be out of business. You can't keep providing a service, that costs you money to deliver, indefinitely for free. TiVo is counting on them to fail within 4 years. Because of this model we haven't seen
> 
> 1.) Better quality hardware.
> 
> ...


I don't understand the general assumption that Lifetime Sub is not a viable model for Tivo. As long as Tivo doesn't blow the Lifetime Sub money up front on executive bonuses or similar, if Tivo invests the money properly they have a "lifetime" income from the initial $399 payment. Granted the income will not be anywhere near as large as the monthly or yearly payment incomes, but then again there is no risk should the customer leave for another technology. For me, the Lifetime Sub allows me to put a cap on monthly costs, which is something I can't do with cable company equipment (they can and do raise the monthly DVR rental cost in the out years). To me this is a big Tivo marketing advantage that they should emphasize to "hook" more buyers.

If Tivo truly is counting on the hardware to fail within 4 years then Tivo is destined to fail. Most typical customers avoid poor reliability products like the plague unless some kind of free lifetime (or at least long-term) warranty is provided. Even then, having something in the shop all the time kinda detracts from the enjoyment of it.

As far as Tivo continuing product development/maintenance, I don't see any reason why they shouldn't. For existing products, it is like Microsoft, even though they don't sell XP anymore they continue to support it and provide required updates (at least thru a predetermined period, which gives you time to consider your options). For follow-on products, trot out a new model Tivo and I will take a look at it just like I'd take a look at a new car. If it's got a killer app or feature I might buy one. But remember, if I am aware that the product is gonna fail within 4 years I'm gonna think twice about buying that new model!


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

84lion said:


> I don't understand the general assumption that Lifetime Sub is not a viable model for Tivo. As long as Tivo doesn't blow the Lifetime Sub money up front on executive bonuses or similar, if Tivo invests the money properly they have a "lifetime" income from the initial $399 payment.


Hehe... that would be an interesting approach.

However, you need to think of lifetime service like Social Security: You pay into the system up-front, and then you rely on its being there when you retire, but your Social Security benefits are absolutely *not* income made off of the FICA taxes you were assessed when you were working, but rather are transfers to you from the taxes that are *currently* being assessed on *current* workers.

With lifetime service, you pay your fee up-front, and the service provided to you is substantially (but not completely) paid-for by folks who bought lifetime service this year, folks who purchased an annual service plan for this year, and folks paying for service month-to-month.

That's why TiVo's financial situation is a concern for lifetime service subscribers. They're not making profit, and so they're essentially only living on as a business because investors keep pouring more investment capital into the company. If that dries up, then the company will go under -- specifically will go into bankruptcy protection. The whole point of going into bankruptcy protection is to release the bankrupt enterprise from some of its contractual obligations, such as the lifetime service commitment.

It is also a big reason why TiVo being acquired by a large company would be relatively good news for lifetime service subscribers, because in a straight acquisition, like that, the company acquiring TiVo would be obligated to live up to all of TiVo's contractual commitments.



84lion said:


> If Tivo truly is counting on the hardware to fail within 4 years then Tivo is destined to fail.


Then perhaps TiVo *is* destined to fail. I've said many times that folks should not shut themselves off from the reality of that possibility. Indeed, I see this as yet-another reason why I think it would be good for subscribers if TiVo was acquired by a large company.



84lion said:


> Most typical customers avoid poor reliability products like the plague unless some kind of free lifetime (or at least long-term) warranty is provided.


You've just made the best argument that can be made for folks to choose to rent cable company and satellite service-provided, leased DVRs, instead of buying a TiVo or Moxi.



84lion said:


> As far as Tivo continuing product development/maintenance, I don't see any reason why they shouldn't. For existing products, it is like Microsoft, even though they don't sell XP anymore they continue to support it and provide required updates (at least thru a predetermined period, which gives you time to consider your options).


Bad example: Microsoft is among the best for providing long-term support for old versions of their operating systems. By comparison, many software products end support for old versions as soon as immediately after the next version comes out. And, it is very common for support to be offered only until the version-after-next comes out.

Besides, you're comparing a hardware/software system to a software product.

Double-besides, product development is aside from maintenance. TiVo has in the past ceased development on a series while still providing service on that series. And they did not announce that they were ceasing development for that series... they just stopped including functional enhancements. We had to ask pointed questions to get some confirmation that we can expect no further developments. There was even an actual functional problem that, at least initially, TiVo said that they would not remedy, on the old series. They only later agreed to deploy a fix for that problem which was actually hacked together by someone else. They themselves did not develop the fix.

Triple-besides, going back to the premise of a lot of this thread: TiVo may stop providing whatever they're not contractually obligated to provide, if they change the strategic direction of their enterprise such that providing what some folks may be expecting them to provide is no longer in their best long-term interests. That is why no one should ever expect from them anything other than what they've explicitly promised to provide, for only as long as they've explicitly promised to provide it. When you start imposing your own preferences, as a consumer, for how a business should be making business decisions, you've essentially put yourself on a path towards a never-ending series of surprise, disappointment and dissatisfaction.



84lion said:


> But remember, if I am aware that the product is gonna fail within 4 years I'm gonna think twice about buying that new model!


Then you may be best off buying nothing (and just renting instead). See above. And that seems to be the foundation for the most promising future direction for TiVo, i.e., providing software that runs on rented cable boxes and rented DVRs.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

lessd said:


> It does work with some limitations I will not go into BUT, it will work all the time if the first 7 digits in the TSN are the same, that lifetime xfer will never fail.


Be careful. I got scolded for pointing that out.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

Adam1115 said:


> ...If you had simply worked within the paramaters of the system you'd have a working TiVo HD with lifetime.
> 
> Anyway, good luck with your Moxi. Spending $499 on a Moxi when you could get yours fixed for what, $49? Doesn't make much sense.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17617523#post17617523


> _...Moxi now charges a flat $75 fee + parts cost for repairs after the warranty expires._
> 
> My bet is that TiVo does away with analog support, as that's a big chunk of their cost. TiVo can't really compete with Moxi on total cost [with lifetime] until they eliminate the NTSC decoders, analog/digital converters, and dual [email protected] encoders used to record two analog channels.


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## jkates (Jun 12, 2002)

routerspecialist said:


> Well, I don't terribly much disagree with a lot of what you say, actually. But, again, my post is about whether this is a company that is good to do business with. My take is that they are not. And customer service is important to me. So, my next purchase will be, in all probablity, a Moxi.
> 
> Remember, I didn't ask them for a warranty repair. All I wanted to do is buy a new Tivo (I was going to purchase an HD XL), and be allowed to transfer the lifetime to it. I thought that would be win-win.
> 
> Well, now, I'm not purchasing anything Tivo - no HD, no HD XL, no nothing. I just don't think they're a good company to do business with.


They do transfer the Lifetime as part of a repair (In the 1st year) as the customer service stated. They are clear that they won't transfer it to a new unit.

I don't know if you work for Moxi, but it seems like your attempting to spend more time slandering Tivo then getting your issue fixed.

Please provide details to your Tivo's issue and people will attempt to help you. If not the slander isn't productive.
-Jason​


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## [email protected] (Dec 1, 2007)

routerspecialist said:


> All I wanted to do is buy a new Tivo (I was going to purchase an HD XL), and be allowed to transfer the lifetime to it. I thought that would be win-win.


In other words you wanted to purchase hardware which TiVo almost certainly sells at a loss, and not give TiVo any recurring revenue to cover the loss on the hardware and also their ongoing costs.

Then you get all indignant when TiVo decline to offer you that deal. Apparently your definition of "win-win" doesn't look like a win to TiVo.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

routerspecialist said:


> Well, I don't terribly much disagree with a lot of what you say, actually. But, again, my post is about whether this is a company that is good to do business with. My take is that they are not. And customer service is important to me. So, my next purchase will be, in all probablity, a Moxi.
> 
> Remember, I didn't ask them for a warranty repair. All I wanted to do is buy a new Tivo (I was going to purchase an HD XL), and be allowed to transfer the lifetime to it. I thought that would be win-win.
> 
> Well, now, I'm not purchasing anything Tivo - no HD, no HD XL, no nothing. I just don't think they're a good company to do business with.


and likely they are not over thrilled with a customer who thinks the stated policies do not apply to them and expect TiVo to just do things that lose TiVo money simply because the customer expects it. It maybe the win-win is when you buy the Moxi


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

bicker said:


> Indeed, changing it from the reality, there being no fault, into it sounding like _they _did something _wrong_. Definitely a poor choice of words.
> 
> We early adopters who selected monthly service did so ourselves. No one forced us to buy a S3. The responsibility for the decision to do so, and for committing to the service plan that was available to us at the time, is our own, and our own alone.


Poor choice in words, not because they aren't at fault. Them being at fault is merely my opinion, not something I can prove.

Regardless, yea, I know I agreed to it. It will ultimately backfire on them since I'm not willing to pay $23/mo for my two TiVo's now that the 3 year pre-pay is up.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

You must be using the word "backfire" in a manner I've never seen before.


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## jkates (Jun 12, 2002)

Adam1115 said:


> Poor choice in words, not because they aren't at fault. Them being at fault is merely my opinion, not something I can prove.
> 
> Regardless, yea, I know I agreed to it. It will ultimately backfire on them since I'm not willing to pay $23/mo for my two TiVo's now that the 3 year pre-pay is up.


Only one of the Tivo's should go for full price the 2nd should be a discount, thus you shouldn't be paying $23 per month.

Now that the lifetime is back on the table it might be worth investing in at least putting lifetime on one and paying the discounted monthly on the 2nd.

-Jason​


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

jkates said:


> Only one of the Tivo's should go for full price the 2nd should be a discount, thus you shouldn't be paying $23 per month.
> 
> Now that the lifetime is back on the table it might be worth investing in at least putting lifetime on one and paying the discounted monthly on the 2nd.
> 
> -Jason​


$12.95/mo + $9.95/mo = $22.90

Sure, lifetime is available. $399 on a 3 year old TiVo. I could prepay for 3 years for $299. So it would take what, 4 more years to pay off? Will my TiVo last 7 years? Maybe... But I bet I'll have moved on to something else by then. Probably not the best investment. And I'm not adding lifetime to my 6 year old Series 2....


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

Adam1115 said:


> $12.95/mo + $9.95/mo = $22.90
> 
> Sure, lifetime is available. $399 on a 3 year old TiVo. I could prepay for 3 years for $299. So it would take what, 4 more years to pay off? Will my TiVo last 7 years? Maybe... But I bet I'll have moved on to something else by then. Probably not the best investment. And I'm not adding lifetime to my 6 year old Series 2....


$399? Should you be eligible for an MSD price of $299? Then your TiVo would only have to be around for ~2½-3 more years to be paid off.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

orangeboy said:


> $399? Should you be eligible for an MSD price of $299? Then your TiVo would only have to be around for ~2½-3 more years to be paid off.


The series 3 is primary. The series 2 is secondary. And I didn't plan on keeping the series 2 around anyway...


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## ciucca (Jun 29, 2004)

routerspecialist said:


> So, I have a lemon. I actually own two Tivos (HD units). One is fine, the other is a turkey.
> 
> I purchased lifetime on both. Now when I tried to purchase another Tivo and transfer the lifetime, Tivo refused!!!!
> 
> ...


These are the actions of a company out of cash. Do yourself a favor and do not put anymore money into them.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

ciucca said:


> These are the actions of a company out of cash. Do yourself a favor and do not put anymore money into them.


Didya actually bother to read the thread?


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

Langree said:


> Didya actually bother to read the thread?


It appears the person is just spreading their hate disease: http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7640309#post7640309
and from awhile ago:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7472602#post7472602


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Adam1115 said:


> The series 3 is primary. The series 2 is secondary. And I didn't plan on keeping the series 2 around anyway...


Then you just use the MSD to purchase lifetime for $299 and drop the S2 once it's complete.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

ciucca said:


> These are the actions of a company out of cash. Do yourself a favor and do not put anymore money into them.


If TiVo is "out of cash" with $300 million in the bank and no debt then I wish I were "out of cash."


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## haas5223 (Dec 3, 2009)

routerspecialist said:


> A Tivo customer service rep who I talked with when I had issues. He clearly stated that it is allowable if, early into the lifetime subscription, there are significant issues with the Tivo.


you have to understand that the tivo representative is someone in a call center...every major company does this with their product more than likely and use a call center to support the hundreds of calls coming in for such things as technical support, sales, retention, and customer service...keep in mind when you call into a big company such as TiVo that they are representatives for tivo but they work for an actual call center...of course they support tivo all the way since they are working there but they are just doing there job....some representatives may have just been hired and some may be tenured agents that know everything about tivo...understand that they are human beings on the other line to and they are helping you out...even if they don't know everything, give them a break, i mean new hires go through training and all but i mean im sure their first few weeks suck after training when they have to deal with customers that just don't know when to quit...they are going off of what was given to them and trying to figure out the problem to fix your issue, i mean let them do their job to the best of their ability and don't make their day worse than it already is by calling in and whining to them...its a job and they are trying to get through the day just like you may be as well


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