# Bolt Deals



## tarheelblue32

Beach Audio is selling the 500GB Bolt for $231.12 with free shipping and the 1,000GB Bolt for $315.88:

http://www.beachaudio.com/Tivo/Tcd849500-p-787020.html

http://www.beachaudio.com/Tivo/Tcd849000-p-787019.html


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## Dan203

Hmmm... same price as that eBay one. Perhaps these are near the wholesale prices of the units.


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## tarheelblue32

Dan203 said:


> Hmmm... same price as that eBay one. Perhaps these are near the wholesale prices of the units.


I think the ebay units were listed at $239, so these are actually cheaper than that.


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## mrsean

Nice find! I wish you had posted this yesterday though. Well at least Weaknees shipping my Bolt out fast.


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## buckweet1980

Does these discounted units include the first year of service too?


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## tarheelblue32

buckweet1980 said:


> Does these discounted units include the first year of service too?


All new Bolts being sold include the first year of service. These are listed as "Brand New, Factory Sealed" so they have to include the free year of service.


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## rsday75

That is a good deal. I got mine on release day at BestBuy with a 10% off coupon and thought that was a pretty good deal.....


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## tarheelblue32

And it looks like they are already out of stock of the 500GB unit, but they still have all 7 of the 1,000GB unit at $315.


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## buckweet1980

tarheelblue32 said:


> And it looks like they are already out of stock of the 500GB unit, but they still have all 7 of the 1,000GB unit at $315.


Yeah I just went to buy one of the 500gig... I don't really want/need the 1TB model.. maybe i'll just put my name in for a 500gig and just wait.. no tax, no shipping and a big discount is nice!


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## tarheelblue32

buckweet1980 said:


> Yeah I just went to buy one of the 500gig... I don't really want/need the 1TB model.. maybe i'll just put my name in for a 500gig and just wait.. no tax, no shipping and a big discount is nice!


Well it looks like the 1TB model is now out of stock also. It does look like their website will still allow you to order at the current price and that they will ship it once more units become available.

Update: Looks like it is no longer possible to order these units out of stock.


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## krkaufman

edit:*WARNING:* Later posts indicate activation issues w/ deeply discounted BOLTs purchased through eBay. Proceed w/ caution.
-----

eBay'r hscholarkateah is back with 4 more...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181898093902

TiVo BOLT 500GB
$249 Buy It Now... or *Make Offer*

(cough222cough)

edit: p.s. Heh, eBay's 'Make an Offer' mechanism apparently has filters the seller can set that automatically reject offers beneath some acceptable threshold. For example, offering $200 for one of the above Bolts. The rejection was instantaneous.


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## buckweet1980

krkaufman said:


> eBay'r hscholarkateah is back with 4 more...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/181898093902
> 
> TiVo BOLT 500GB
> $249 Buy It Now... or *Make Offer*
> 
> (cough222cough)
> 
> edit: p.s. Heh, eBay's 'Make an Offer' mechanism apparently has filters the seller can set that automatically reject offers beneath some acceptable threshold. For example, offering $200 for one of the above Bolts. The rejection was instantaneous.


I just tried for 235.. Guess we'll see!


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## krkaufman

buckweet1980 said:


> I just tried for 235.. Guess we'll see!


Well, if it wasn't insta-rejected you have a shot...!


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## gigaguy

Yes, ebay has the option to auto set minimum offer amt or not. 
I see he raised his asking price but accepted 2 offers.


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## buckweet1980

krkaufman said:


> Well, if it wasn't insta-rejected you have a shot...!


Success at 235.00


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## keenanSR

Confirmed at $220.00 about two hours ago.

Now the wait for delivery.


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## gigaguy

Accepted $225 yesterday. but not my first offer of $200 but 3 week delivery is a drag. I would have paid more for faster ship.


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## TazExprez

Forum member Davisadm, an authorized TiVo dealer in Southern California, just got the Bolt series in stock. You should contact him for a quote.


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## CoxInPHX

TazExprez said:


> Forum member Davisadm, an authorized TiVo dealer in Southern California, just got the Bolt series in stock. You should contact him for a quote.


nothing posted yet: http://www.ebay.com/usr/davislv?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2754


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## HarperVision

TazExprez said:


> Forum member Davisadm, an authorized TiVo dealer in Southern California, just got the Bolt series in stock. You should contact him for a quote.





CoxInPHX said:


> nothing posted yet: http://www.ebay.com/usr/davislv?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2754


I can confirm this too.


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## dave13077

Didn't the other listing mention that the unit includes "All In" service? I do not see this listed on the current listing... Of course l could have missed it.


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## krkaufman

dave13077 said:


> Didn't the other listing mention that the unit includes "All In" service? I do not see this listed on the current listing... Of course l could have missed it.


What "other listing"? And to which listing are you referring as the "current listing"?


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## krkaufman

CoxInPHX said:


> nothing posted yet: http://www.ebay.com/usr/davislv?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2754


Thanks for the link. Indeed, his Items for Sale page currently lists '0 results.'


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## dave13077

If I am remembering correctly (in another thread) people were mentioning that the previous Bolts that this seller listed were marked as including All In service. 

Sent from my XT1097 using Tapatalk


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## krkaufman

dave13077 said:


> If I am remembering correctly (in another thread) people were mentioning that the previous Bolts that this seller listed were marked as including All In service.


No, the eBay listings made no mention of the devices having Lifetime/All In service.

There was merely humorous speculation, based on BOLTs having been given to TiVo employees and those employee BOLTs supposedly having All In service, that the eBay buyers for that auction might be happy to find their eBay purchases had the All In service.


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## dave13077

Oh OK. Obviously the humor was lost on me  

Sent from my XT1097 using Tapatalk


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## HarperVision

krkaufman said:


> Thanks for the link. Indeed, his Items for Sale page currently lists '0 results.'


I've been emailing with him. He's been out on job sites and now he's going to CEDIA so sales and shipping may be effected for a little bit.


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## TazExprez

Davis sent me a PM last night. I bought some TiVo stuff from him directly. I never bought anything from his eBay site.


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## keenanSR

krkaufman said:


> eBay'r hscholarkateah is back with 4 more...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/181898093902
> 
> TiVo BOLT 500GB
> $249 Buy It Now... or *Make Offer*
> 
> (cough222cough)
> 
> edit: p.s. Heh, eBay's 'Make an Offer' mechanism apparently has filters the seller can set that automatically reject offers beneath some acceptable threshold. For example, offering $200 for one of the above Bolts. The rejection was instantaneous.


Back up with the 1TB model,

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181898960841


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## krkaufman

HarperVision said:


> I've been emailing with him. He's been out on job sites and now he's going to CEDIA so sales and shipping may be effected for a little bit.


Thanks for the feedback. I'd rather go through a known seller, especially someone connected to The Community, if the rates are competitive... and the delays mentioned work for me, as well, since I'm not going anywhere near a BOLT until the Overlap Protection (clipping) issue is resolved.


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## atmuscarella

krkaufman said:


> Thanks for the feedback. I'd rather go through a known seller, especially someone connected to The Community, if the rates are competitive... and the delays mentioned work for me, as well, since I'm not going anywhere near a BOLT until the Overlap Protection (clipping) issue is resolved.


My guess is TiVo is getting real close to pushing the Bolt's software version down to the Premieres & Roamios, which would like have the same removal of the Clipping on/off menu choice.


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## krkaufman

atmuscarella said:


> My guess is TiVo is getting real close to pushing the Bolt's software version down to the Premieres & Roamios, which would like have the same removal of the Clipping on/off menu choice.


Right, agreed, thus the "storm the castle" comment in my post to TiVo, and why, as a Roamio-only owner, I'm pushing as hard as I can to get resolution for this issue escalated and expedited.


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## wemogil

$150 first year is included in the deal but I only pay $99/year for my existing Tivo account....any trick to just buy a Bolt and add it to my existing plan?


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## aaronwt

Well this is interesting. The Bolt I won on EBay is already showing a UPS Origin Scan. And the Origin scan is from Fort Worth TX.

And UPS is showing Wednesday the 14th for the scheduled delivery day.


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## aaronwt

Also that same ebay seller is showing a couple of 1TB Bolts for sale with a Buy it Now price of $349.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TiVo-BOLT-1...98960841?hash=item2a5a05dfc9&autorefresh=true

A decent deal but nowhere near as great as the 500GB Bolts sold for.


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## gigaguy

Yikes, my $225 ebay Bolt, 'delivery by Oct 30' now says it's in my town already, shipped UPS from inside my state, - auction was from Cali. I need to get a 2-3tb drive quick. Is there only one 3TB drive, that Toshiba?


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## gigaguy

My ebay Bolt arrived in one day for $100 cheaper than Tivo.com + tax. That's an extra 7 mo in service fees. I think the seller is affiliated with TiVO or has professional packing and an order slip. I wonder if Tivo.com ships from Mesquite, TX too.
I guess I'll hook it up without a new drive.. I thought I'd have time to get one.


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## LSpera

$269.99 at Best Buy if you use one of their 10% off coupons ( I bought one on eBay for $3).


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## apw2607

Amazon is listing the Bolt at $243. This is direct from Amazon and not one of their 3rd party sellers !


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## thefisch

amazing to see 20%+ off within 30 days off launch.


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## keenanSR

apw2607 said:


> Amazon is listing the Bolt at $243. This is direct from Amazon and not one of their 3rd party sellers !


It wasn't that price for very long, already back to $299 and third party vendor.


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## tarheelblue32

keenanSR said:


> It wasn't that price for very long, already back to $299 and third party vendor.


I guess Amazon ran out of stock quickly at that price.


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## keenanSR

tarheelblue32 said:


> I guess Amazon ran out of stock quickly at that price.


Easy to see why, a very good price from the world's most famous shopping site.

When I offered $220 to the ebay vendor I never expected it to be accepted, but what the heck, the latest TiVo has to offer with a year of service included, seems like a can't miss at that price.


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## aaronwt

keenanSR said:


> Easy to see why, a very good price from the world's most famous shopping site.
> 
> When I offered $220 to the ebay vendor I never expected it to be accepted, but what the heck, the latest TiVo has to offer with a year of service included, seems like a can't miss at that price.


WoW!! And I thought the $222 I offered was low. I was also surprised it was accepted. Although with the 1TB model they have listed for $350 I offered $310 and was immediately rejected. So it's nowhere near as good a deal as the 500GB version.


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## Dan203

Try $320. If they accepted an offer of $220 on the 500GB and the 1TB is $100 more retail then maybe they will accept $100 more then the lowest offer for the 500GB one.


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## keenanSR

aaronwt said:


> WoW!! And I thought the $222 I offered was low. I was also surprised it was accepted. Although with the 1TB model they have listed for $350 I offered $310 and was immediately rejected. So it's nowhere near as good a deal as the 500GB version.


Yeah, I don't even really need it, it was a "hail-mary" type of offer, I never expected it to be accepted. But since it was I'm definitely going to put the unit into service and use it, at least for the first year of service anyway.


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## aaronwt

Dan203 said:


> Try $320. If they accepted an offer of $220 on the 500GB and the 1TB is $100 more retail then maybe they will accept $100 more then the lowest offer for the 500GB one.


I see they already sold the two for the Buy It Now price of $349. It looked like they had a lot of rejected offers though.

I'm glad I didn't win it. Because I was going to completely replace my Roamio Pro with two Bolts. But now I think I might wait a while until they figure it exactly what is going on with the Bolt Drive, swap file etc. Not sure. I'll need to decide after I get the Ebay Bolt later this week.


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## gigaguy

I offered $200, then $225 and he accepted. I accidentally clicked and bought on the asking price listing and and he cancelled that and let me correctly purchase one with my Offer price.
trying to decide which Tivo to take the cc out of to set Bolt up, as I want to sell one Tivo but waiting on more responses on CL.


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## Dan203

aaronwt said:


> I see they already sold the two for the Buy It Now price of $349. It looked like they had a lot of rejected offers though.
> 
> I'm glad I didn't win it. Because I was going to completely replace my Roamio Pro with two Bolts. But now I think I might wait a while until they figure it exactly what is going on with the Bolt Drive, swap file etc. Not sure. I'll need to decide after I get the Ebay Bolt later this week.


I considered that, but it seems like a step backward for me. I'd rather wait to see what they come up with next year. Although I really hope they release SkipMode for the Roamio Pro. Even if it's an extra charge. Seems like a big feature to make Bolt exclusive when there is no direct replacement for the Pro in the Bolt lineup.


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## mrizzo80

Beach Audio pulled both models (or maybe they are just OOS at the moment).

I may have pulled the trigger on the 1TB for $315.xx, but I didn't see this post until just now.


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## buckweet1980

aaronwt said:


> Well this is interesting. The Bolt I won on EBay is already showing a UPS Origin Scan. And the Origin scan is from Fort Worth TX.
> 
> And UPS is showing Wednesday the 14th for the scheduled delivery day.


I live in DFW and bought from this ebay'er.. To my suprise I got the UPS delivery notification for tommorrow earlier today.. So this explains why it's coming tommorrow 

It's coming from TIVO / ATC Logistics.. Yay no waiting!


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## HarperVision

Really sounds to me like a Dealer who is drop shipping direct from TiVo and making a small margin on them.


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## buckweet1980

HarperVision said:


> Really sounds to me like a Dealer who is drop shipping direct from TiVo and making a small margin on them.


Agreed...


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## gigaguy

How long does it take for Bolt to see my other Tivos? Tivo support seemed confused, kept asking if i activated it or not. I did not, the box activated itself, setup fine, records, has program data, it just can't connect to my other Tivos yet.
He said wait 2 hours but asked me 4 times if I activated the Bolt...


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## atmuscarella

gigaguy said:


> How long does it take for Bolt to see my other Tivos? Tivo support seemed confused, kept asking if i activated it or not. I did not, the box activated itself, setup fine, records, has program data, it just can't connect to my other Tivos yet.
> He said wait 2 hours but asked me 4 times if I activated the Bolt...


When you say activated itself what exactly do you mean? If you did not log into your TiVo account on line and select the activate TiVo button and go through that process, I think you have to do that to get it added to your existing account. When you buy the box from TiVo they do it automatically, but it you bought it someplace else you have to do it manually.


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## gigaguy

As I said, I did nothing, but the Bolt is activated. Bolts are unique in that they come with service no matter where you buy them. I tried to activate the Bolt # it says already activated. The Bolt does not show up on my a device list online yet. This was sealed like new, from an ebay dealer.
My other Tivos show up on the Bolt menu under Devices but when I click on them it says 'Roamio Pro not on your acct. Call Tivo support', which I did, they said wait up to 2 hours.


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## rainwater

gigaguy said:


> As I said, I did nothing, but the Bolt is activated. Bolts are unique in that they come with service no matter where you buy them. I tried to activate the Bolt # it says already activated. The Bolt does not show up on my a device list online yet. This was sealed like new, from an ebay dealer.
> My other Tivos show up on the Bolt menu under Devices but when I click on them it says 'Roamio Pro not on your acct. Call Tivo support', which I did, they said wait up to 2 hours.


Once the Bolt is on your account, you will need to force a connection from all of your other TiVos (and the Bolt itself) so they get the authorization.


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## aaronwt

gigaguy said:


> As I said, I did nothing, but the Bolt is activated. Bolts are unique in that they come with service no matter where you buy them. I tried to activate the Bolt # it says already activated. The Bolt does not show up on my a device list online yet. This was sealed like new, from an ebay dealer.
> My other Tivos show up on the Bolt menu under Devices but when I click on them it says 'Roamio Pro not on your acct. Call Tivo support', which I did, they said wait up to 2 hours.


You need to add it to your account. Once I did that the Bolt I got from BestBuy showed up on my account page right away.

When you add it online, it will get your credit card info and ask whether you want to use the one year of included service, (with automatic renewal after a year), or pay $599 for All IN.

I entered my CC info and selected the included year of service, then it showed up on my account page. Then I had the Bolt connect to the TiVo service and my ROamios and Minis also connect to the TiVo service. Then they could all see each other. After each box connected they could see my Bolt and access the shows on it.


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## aaronwt

More 500GB Bolts on Ebay. $249 for Buy It Now from the same seller. No option to make an offer this time.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TiVo-BOLT-5...edia-Player-/181901479011?hash=item2a5a2c4c63

Still a very good deal for $249 with shipping included and no taxes for most people.


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## 483

aaronwt said:


> More 500GB Bolts on Ebay. $249 for Buy It Now from the same seller. No option to make an offer this time.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/TiVo-BOLT-5...edia-Player-/181901479011?hash=item2a5a2c4c63
> 
> Still a very good deal for $249 with shipping included and no taxes for most people.


Thank you. I bought one.


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## gigaguy

Thanks aaron but where do I add my Bolt, I see no function for that on my online acct. If I try to activate, it says 'Already activated'..
ebay seller ships fast from TX. UPS, no signature.


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## keenanSR

aaronwt said:


> More 500GB Bolts on Ebay. $249 for Buy It Now from the same seller. No option to make an offer this time.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/TiVo-BOLT-5...edia-Player-/181901479011?hash=item2a5a2c4c63
> 
> Still a very good deal for $249 with shipping included and no taxes for most people.


Now up to $269.


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## aaronwt

gigaguy said:


> Thanks aaron but where do I add my Bolt, I see no function for that on my online acct. If I try to activate, it says 'Already activated'..
> ebay seller ships fast from TX. UPS, no signature.


When I activated mine, I went to the main TiVo page and there was an activation link on the top. And then I had to enter the service number. But I guess if they were activated based on the buyer info then you would have no choice but to contact someone at TiVo to add it to your account. It needs to be on your account to work with the other TiVos since they need to have the same Media Access Key for them to work with each other.


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## HarperVision

gigaguy said:


> Thanks aaron but where do I add my Bolt, I see no function for that on my online acct. If I try to activate, it says 'Already activated'.. ebay seller ships fast from TX. UPS, no signature.





aaronwt said:


> When I activated mine, I went to the main TiVo page and there was an activation link on the top. And then I had to enter the service number. But I guess if they were activated based on the buyer info then you would have no choice but to contact someone at TiVo to add it to your account. It needs to be on your account to work with the other TiVos since they need to have the same Media Access Key for them to work with each other.


See if it's TiVo Service Level 11: Evaluation under your system info screen. If so then it's most likely a TiVo employee freebie unit and it's already activated on an account for him/her.

I would call TiVo as aaronwt suggests.


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## aaronwt

HarperVision said:


> See if it's TiVo Service Level 11: Evaluation under your system info screen. If so then it's most likely a TiVo employee freebie unit and it's already activated on an account for him/her.
> 
> ...............


Didn't you or someone else mention that in the past this was not an issue? I only know with the free Mini I got that is listed as evaluation, that I was told that it would be fine as long as it stayed on my account. But that came directly from TiVo to me. I guess I'll find out on Wednesday when I get mine.


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## gigaguy

Thanks, I don't see that, says 3-good standing, also- C-111115. I did call TiVo and will again. I also emailed the seller.


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## HarperVision

aaronwt said:


> Didn't you or someone else mention that in the past this was not an issue? I only know with the free Mini I got that is listed as evaluation, that I was told that it would be fine as long as it stayed on my account. But that came directly from TiVo to me. I guess I'll find out on Wednesday when I get mine.


Not me. If it is that service-level then you still have to make sure it's on your account. It may be on the sellers account at that service level which would be why when he tries to activate it that it's telling him it is already activated


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## atmuscarella

gigaguy said:


> Thanks, I don't see that, says 3-good standing, also- C-111115. I did call TiVo and will again. I also emailed the seller.


Have you tried what aaronwt and I have said? Go to TiVo on line, log into your account, use the Activate TiVo link, then put your new Bolts service number in and go through the process.


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## gigaguy

Yes, I've mentioned that, it will not let me, says Already Activated.... Calling TiVo support again later today..


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## aaronwt

The Bolt I have activated from BestBuy shows C:110915 for the Service Level.


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## zerdian1

tarheelblue32 said:


> Beach Audio is selling the 500GB Bolt for $231.12 with free shipping and the 1,000GB Bolt for $315.88:
> 
> http://www.beachaudio.com/Tivo/Tcd849500-p-787020.html
> 
> http://www.beachaudio.com/Tivo/Tcd849000-p-787019.html


none left
must have been a good price.
Oops! It appears we are out of stock or no longer selling this product.
Model: TCD849500


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## atmuscarella

gigaguy said:


> Yes, I've mentioned that, it will not let me, says Already Activated.... Calling TiVo support again later today..


Interesting, once a Bolt is in a person account does it show an exact day that the years services will be up? If so would be interesting to see if the date on this unit reflects when you first brought it on line or something else.


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## aaronwt

atmuscarella said:


> Interesting, once a Bolt is in a person account does it show an exact day that the years services will be up? If so would be interesting to see if the date on this unit reflects when you first brought it on line or something else.


My BestBuy Bolt does on my account. It shows an activation date of 10/06/2015. Then it shows "1 Year of TiVo Service Included" and a plan end date of 10/05/2016.


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## krkaufman

atmuscarella said:


> Interesting, once a Bolt is in a person account does it show an exact day that the years services will be up? If so would be interesting to see if the date on this unit reflects when you first brought it on line or something else.


Heh, good question... Do you lose a few days of service if you buy directly from TiVo, with their having activated it upon shipping? (And think of all the service days HarperVision would lose if it were the case.)


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## aaronwt

krkaufman said:


> Heh, good question... Do you lose a few days of service if you buy directly from TiVo, with their having activated it upon shipping? (And think of all the service days HarperVision would lose if it were the case.)


That is the way it's been in the past. When you order from TiVo it's activated before it ships. So that is when your term starts. Not when you receive it.


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## HarperVision

krkaufman said:


> Heh, good question... Do you lose a few days of service if you buy directly from TiVo, with their having activated it upon shipping? (And think of all the service days HarperVision would lose if it were the case.)


Yeah that's one of the reasons why I don't order from TiVo. That and the price gouging they force down your throat for shipping to here!


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## foghorn2

I would think it safe to say the Bolt true price should be $199.99. $299.99 is the early adopter price. 

These "good" prices you are seeing (239-250) are pre Black Friday pricing.


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## buckweet1980

Just received my unit.. Purchased off ebay from this thread..

My unit is already activated with C:111115 service level.. WOn't let me do it online either..

Time to call support I guess..


On the other side of things.. This thing is tiny! I thought my FIOS quantum DVR was tiny, but this is much smaller than that.. Also I like how the remote is smaller (comparing it to an older premiere remote I have)..


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## buckweet1980

buckweet1980 said:


> Just received my unit.. Purchased off ebay from this thread..
> 
> My unit is already activated with C:111115 service level.. WOn't let me do it online either..
> 
> Time to call support I guess..
> 
> On the other side of things.. This thing is tiny! I thought my FIOS quantum DVR was tiny, but this is much smaller than that.. Also I like how the remote is smaller (comparing it to an older premiere remote I have)..


Okay that was super easy.. Just called them up and they looked up the Unit and had me verify information.. Turns out that the seller ordered it under my name with a few different things such as email/phone which made it two seperate accounts.. The lady on the phone merged the information and now I see it under my tivo.com account..


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## HarperVision

foghorn2 said:


> I would think it safe to say the Bolt true price should be $199.99. $299.99 is the early adopter price. These "good" prices you are seeing (239-250) are pre Black Friday pricing.


From what I have been told, that number you're saying ($199) is under dealer pricing.


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## aaronwt

buckweet1980 said:


> Okay that was super easy.. Just called them up and they looked up the Unit and had me verify information.. Turns out that the seller ordered it under my name with a few different things such as email/phone which made it two seperate accounts.. The lady on the phone merged the information and now I see it under my tivo.com account..


Sweet!!! :up:

So does it show expiration in a year for the service on the Bolt?


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## Dan203

I'm betting the hardware is somewhere in the same ballpark as the old Roamio Basic. So they likely have a lot of wiggle room if they're willing to cut into their profits on that first year of service. Which maybe they'll be willing to do since they could potentially be creating new lifelong TiVo customers.


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## aaronwt

Dan203 said:


> I'm betting the hardware is somewhere in the same ballpark as the old Roamio Basic. So they likely have a lot of wiggle room if they're willing to cut into their profits on that first year of service. Which maybe they'll be willing to do since they could potentially be creating new lifelong TiVo customers.


Or even new yearly recurring income from old TiVo customers.

Which will be the case from me unless they have a 33% off sale on All In pricing.


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## buckweet1980

aaronwt said:


> Sweet!!! :up:
> 
> So does it show expiration in a year for the service on the Bolt?


Yes it shows 10/11/12.. The box was activated yesterday 10/12/13 when it was ordered.

The unit came directly from TiVo, so that ebay person is just proxy ordering them.


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## keenanSR

buckweet1980 said:


> Okay that was super easy.. Just called them up and they looked up the Unit and had me verify information.. Turns out that the seller ordered it under my name with a few different things such as email/phone which made it two seperate accounts.. The lady on the phone merged the information and now I see it under my tivo.com account..


And your unit was from this seller?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TiVo-BOLT-5...edia-Player-/181901479011?hash=item2a5a2c4c63

Just trying to anticipate what I'll need to do when mine arrives Friday. So some of the information associated with your ebay account is different from your TiVo account? Am I understanding that correctly?


----------



## HarperVision

keenanSR said:


> And your unit was from this seller?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/TiVo-BOLT-5...edia-Player-/181901479011?hash=item2a5a2c4c63
> 
> Just trying to anticipate what I'll need to do when mine arrives Friday. So some of the information associated with your ebay account is different from your TiVo account? Am I understanding that correctly?


If I were you, I'd ask the ebay seller to NOT pre-activate it for me, but I would ask for it's TSN and do it myself on tivo.com. His way creates more hassles than it helps.


----------



## keenanSR

HarperVision said:


> If I were you, I'd ask the ebay seller to NOT pre-activate it for me, but I would ask for it's TSN and do it myself on tivo.com. His way creates more hassles than it helps.


It's already been shipped so it has probably already been activated. Though it couldn't hurt to message him/her and ask.

I just sent a message asking about the activation, if there is a response I'll post back.


----------



## gigaguy

Tivo says the bolt set up a new acct so I had 2 accts now. I never did any acct setup or activating. I think the BOlt activates differently since it has builtin service and support doesn't understand it. The rep had to ask others and they all seemed foggy about it. They said to check the Bolt in 2 hours... THe Bolt works, just won't connect to my other Tivos on my acct.
ebay seller was no help. I guess I should have called Tivo before I ran the setup..
I gave Tivo the Bolt # and it's in my acct list now, should be ok now..


----------



## buckweet1980

keenanSR said:


> And your unit was from this seller?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/TiVo-BOLT-5...edia-Player-/181901479011?hash=item2a5a2c4c63
> 
> Just trying to anticipate what I'll need to do when mine arrives Friday. So some of the information associated with your ebay account is different from your TiVo account? Am I understanding that correctly?


Yeap that guy..

Honestly having it already activated made it easier for me to setup since I didn't have a lot of time at lunch today.. Less messing around with the basics.

It wasn't that much hassle to get it switched over, phone call took maybe 5 minutes. I have to call FIOS next to get the card paired.. that'll be the more fun call, along with returning my quantum DVR..


----------



## buckweet1980

keenanSR said:


> It's already been shipped so it has probably already been activated. Though it couldn't hurt to message him/her and ask.
> 
> I just sent a message asking about the activation, if there is a response I'll post back.


Correct.. That guy from ebay is just buying them from TiVo and having it shipped directly. The shipping slip that came in the box is direct from TiVo, so he's just a proxy ordering guy..

When you order them from tivo.com they come pre-activated.


----------



## gigaguy

Tivo says it could take 72 hours for the MAK # to reset on the Bolt so I can network it with my other Tivos. Besides that, it works fine.


----------



## aaronwt

Another 500GB and 1TB Bolt from the ebay seller. $249 and $349.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TiVo-BOLT-5...edia-Player-/181902314677?hash=item2a5a390cb5

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TiVo-BOLT-1...edia-Player-/181902313164?hash=item2a5a3906cc


----------



## magnumis

How is the ebayer ordering from Tivo and selling for $50 less? Is this a dealer discount or is he ordering with a stolen credit card?


----------



## atmuscarella

magnumis said:


> How is the ebayer ordering from Tivo and selling for $50 less? Is this a dealer discount or is he ordering with a stolen credit card?


Like most on this broad I have no actual knowledge of what is going on, but it I were going to make something up so that it made sense in my mind , I would go with that the ebay "seller" is being sanctioned by TiVo to sell at a lower price point to either move more units and/or to get some idea on what lower price points do for sales.


----------



## krkaufman

atmuscarella said:


> Like most on this broad I have no actual knowledge of what is going on, ...


Yeah, me either; probably why I spend so much time here on this board.


----------



## gigaguy

Seller's responses to me does not make me think he knows much about Tivo. But sometimes TiVo support doesn't either so who knows..


----------



## aaronwt

I ended up ordering a second Bolt from the eBay seller. But this time I paid $249. So along with the one for $222 that is still pretty good. Considering the BestBuy Bolt was $317 after taxes(less $30 in reward zone dollars). I plan on returning the BestBuy Bolt and sticking with the two eBay Bolts until a Bolt Pro is released next year. Hopefully in less than a year so I don't need to deal with another year of service on the 4 tuner Bolts.


----------



## keenanSR

gigaguy said:


> Seller's responses to me does not make me think he knows much about Tivo. But sometimes TiVo support doesn't either so who knows..


I got the same feeling, he thanked me for mentioning the great price and prompted me to leave good feedback but didn't say a word about the activation question I asked.


----------



## buckweet1980

aaronwt said:


> I ended up ordering a second Bolt from the eBay seller. But this time I paid $249. So along with the one for $222 that is still pretty good. Considering the BestBuy Bolt was $317 after taxes(less $30 in reward zone dollars). I plan on returning the BestBuy Bolt and sticking with the two eBay Bolts until a Bolt Pro is released next year. Hopefully in less than a year so I don't need to deal with another year of service on the 4 tuner Bolts.


They're going to ban you from getting free service if you keep upgrading, lol... SOONER OR LATER WE HAVE TO GET SUBSCRIPTION FEES OFF THIS GUY!


----------



## aaronwt

buckweet1980 said:


> They're going to ban you from getting free service if you keep upgrading, lol... SOONER OR LATER WE HAVE TO GET SUBSCRIPTION FEES OFF THIS GUY!


 I do have a $6.95 a month Roamio Basic sub. And I have had over twenty TiVos with lifetime sevice.


----------



## gigaguy

I would Strongly recommend Not buying Tivos on ebay. Tivo cancelled my Bolt service today. more info to come. If buyers want to msg me I'll give more info as it unfolds. I got cut off from my Tivo call to 'advanced support'...


----------



## HarperVision

gigaguy said:


> I would Strongly recommend Not buying Tivos on ebay. Tivo cancelled my Bolt service today. more info to come. If buyers want to msg me I'll give more info as it unfolds. I got cut off from my Tivo call to 'advanced support'...


Not good!


----------



## Jed1

Amazon has the 500GB Bolt in stock for $299.99.
http://www.amazon.com/TiVo-500GB-Un...id=1444864527&sr=1-1&keywords=TiVo+BOLT+500GB

The 1TB Bolt for $399.99 and will be available on the 17th of October.
http://www.amazon.com/TiVo-BOLT-Uni...d=1444777066&sr=1-1&keywords=TiVo+BOLT+1000GB


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## gigaguy

I recommend buying Bolt only from direct sellers like Tivo or Amazon. The service transaction is more complicated with the prepaid yr service and if there is fraud the Bolt's service will not be activated/transferred to your acct/credit card.


----------



## keenanSR

gigaguy said:


> I recommend buying Bolt only from direct sellers like Tivo or Amazon. The service transaction is more complicated with the prepaid yr service and if there is fraud the Bolt's service will not be activated/transferred to your acct/credit card.


Is the ebay seller a fraudulent seller? I don't quite follow what you're saying, a bit more detail would be helpful.


----------



## SlickVik

gigaguy said:


> I recommend buying Bolt only from direct sellers like Tivo or Amazon. The service transaction is more complicated with the prepaid yr service and if there is fraud the Bolt's service will not be activated/transferred to your acct/credit card.


Can you be more specific on the fraud part?

I bought a 1TB Bolt from the same seller but it hasn't shipped yet - When I saw your earlier message I immediately asked the seller to cancel the transaction due to your warning. I'm waiting on him/her to refund and I will instead order from Tivo directly -- I'd rather pay $50 + tax more for peace of mind.


----------



## gigaguy

As I only know what I'm being told by Tivo, I do not know the fuller truth concerning ebay, the seller, prepaid bolt service etc..
Tivo cancelled the Bolts service, says these Bolts were purchased at full price from them with the same reported stolen credit card. Tivo says I can buy the Bolt from them and they will activate it to my acct. Now, it is a pretty white bent, brick.
I can't answer why someone would pay full price and sell them for $50-$75 cheaper.


----------



## mrizzo80

gigaguy said:


> As I only know what I'm being told by Tivo, I do not know the fuller truth concerning ebay, the seller, prepaid bolt service etc..
> Tivo cancelled the Bolts service, says these Bolts were purchased at full price from them with a reported stolen credit card. Tivo says I can buy the Bolt from them and they will activate it to my acct. Now, it is a pretty white bent, brick.


Will eBay's buyer protection cover you for this? If the dude is selling stolen property I would hope it would.


----------



## gigaguy

As I said, I do not know what the seller did or didn't do. I msg'd the seller and filed a claim with ebay.


----------



## aaronwt

gigaguy said:


> As I only know what I'm being told by Tivo, I do not know the fuller truth concerning ebay, the seller, prepaid bolt service etc..
> Tivo cancelled the Bolts service, says these Bolts were purchased at full price from them with the same reported stolen credit card. Tivo says I can buy the Bolt from them and they will activate it to my acct. Now, it is a pretty white bent, brick.
> I can't answer why someone would pay full price and sell them for $50-$75 cheaper.


People will do that to get the cash while putting the purchase on a credit card. There was a guy at work fifteen years ago that would do that. He was always taking stuff to the pawn shop and kept paying and paying on stuff without getting it out. Then if he got a new credit card he would run it up real quick buying things and then sell them for a lower price to get the cash. Eventually he went into bankruptcy. And Of course I never got the $100 back from him that he borrowed from me.


----------



## gigaguy

IMO, the prepaid Bolt service complicates buying Bolts from individuals. even Tivo is confused on how to handle Bolt prepaid service, the cc, and transferring it. They admitted confusion and mistakes they made on Bolt transfers.

I'm not happy with Tivo because my lifetimed Premiere and Roamio's previous owners' names and credit card info are still on the boxes I've owned for years and transferred to my acct as per their guidelines. If I sell a lifetimed Tivo they do not remove my name or cc info or require the buyer update the credit card info on the box. Makes me nervous if I sell a Tivo..
Tivo dropped the ball in several ways on all my Tivo box accts. It's not reassuring..


----------



## keenanSR

aaronwt said:


> People will do that to get the cash while putting the purchase on a credit card. There was a guy at work fifteen years ago that would do that. He was always taking stuff to the pawn shop and kept paying and paying on stuff without getting it out. Then if he got a new credit card he would run it up real quick buying things and then sell them for a lower price to get the cash. Eventually he went into bankruptcy. And Of course I never got the $100 back from him that he borrowed from me.


Sent you a PM


----------



## zerdian1

aaronwt said:


> I do have a $6.95 a month Roamio Basic sub. And I have had over twenty TiVos with lifetime sevice.


And I thought I had a lot of TiVos with Lifetime service at 7 out of my 8 TiVos.
I had three ReplayTVs with lifetime service but they were SD.
Now I have 5 TiVos with HD.

Considering getting one TiVo Bolt from EBay for $250 with included service it will only cost me about $100 over the next year.

If the EBay seller is using his discount to sell below cost and make a smaller profit, that is great for us.

If he is using a stolen credit card then we will be the losers as we will not be able to activate or at some point in the future when discovered we will lose our activation.


----------



## TazExprez

TCF member Davisadm, an authorized TiVo dealer in California, has pretty good prices. He will probably charge for shipping, but the prices on the Bolt DVRs are just slightly more than the eBay prices, especially when compared to the 1000GB edition. You also get to save on the taxes if you don't live in California. He is out this week, so you'll have to contact him later. Btw, he didn't charge me shipping on my TiVo Mini boxes, but I ordered six of them, and they are light and small. He gave me a quote with a shipping charge for three Bolt DVRs. He also gave me several different shipping rates with FedEx, UPS, and the USPS. The cheapest rate was with FedEx Ground. The quote was for one 1000GB DVR and two 500GB DVRs.

Solid Signal, one of the main dealer's on TiVo's site, has the 1000GB edition in stock at full price, but you could save on the taxes, depending on where you live.


----------



## robertfparker

He tried to connect another Tivo but you have to have the tivo mini
I have no offer service after you buy it just reset and activate again .
If you guys have any question Please let me know.
Thanks!


----------



## robertfparker

Dear ustexvi If you cannot transfer it Please open another one or reset it .


Hello, I got the Tivo Bolt today, thanks for the quick ship. It is working fine except on TIvo.com it says it is already activated when I try to add it to my Tivo acct online. I called the Tivo support, they seemed confused, told me to activate it, (I can't) and they said wait an hour but it still will not connect to my other TIvos. It's working fine otherwise, it just can not connect to my other Tivos yet. says it's not on my acct.
Thanks again for the item. Will leave feedback for you.
Ron
Austin, TX

ustexvi:
I have a Roamio and a PRemiere. Tivo says it will take 72 hours to reset the Bolt off of your acct onto my acct. When you bought the Bolts from Tivo, Tivo activated them with service to your name on Oct8.


----------



## Jrr6415sun

magnumis said:


> How is the ebayer ordering from Tivo and selling for $50 less? Is this a dealer discount or is he ordering with a stolen credit card?


this has to be a stolen credit card (triangulation scam) or hot products. No possible way to make a profit selling it that low plus having to ship it.


----------



## Jrr6415sun

gigaguy said:


> As I said, I do not know what the seller did or didn't do. I msg'd the seller and filed a claim with ebay.


most likely seller used a stolen credit card to purchase it from tivo and send it to you. The owner of the creditcard did a chargeback so TiVo cancelled the service and marked the box as fraud.


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## TazExprez

You can save 10% on a new Bolt at Best Buy in two ways. One way is to use the Best Buy card, which will give you 10% in rewards until the end of October. Another way is to use your Discover card through Apple Pay before the end of the year. The last method can also be used at any other retailer.


----------



## HarperVision

TazExprez said:


> TCF member Davisadm, an authorized TiVo dealer in California, has pretty good prices. He will probably charge for shipping, but the prices on the Bolt DVRs are just slightly more than the eBay prices, especially when compared to the 1000GB edition. You also get to save on the taxes if you don't live in California. He is out this week, so you'll have to contact him later. Btw, he didn't charge me shipping on my TiVo Mini boxes, but I ordered six of them, and they are light and small. He gave me a quote with a shipping charge for three Bolt DVRs. He also gave me several different shipping rates with FedEx, UPS, and the USPS. The cheapest rate was with FedEx Ground. The quote was for one 1000GB DVR and two 500GB DVRs. Solid Signal, one of the main dealer's on TiVo's site, has the 1000GB edition in stock at full price, but you could save on the taxes, depending on where you live.


I second the recommendation of Davisadmin! He is a class act and totally on the up and up. It's very much worth a few extra Washingtons to get it from him. Awesome legit deals! :up:

Don't get taken by this fraud at ebay for a measly $10-15!


----------



## 483

********* said:


> Thank you. I bought one.


I am sure excited to see where this thread has gone. I bought one of the eBay units and it was shipped yesterday. I actually received a note from the seller that although I purchased a 500 gb I was shipped an upgrade to the 1 tb device.

I was happy about my free upgrade until now. It arrives on Monday. I hope things go smoothly. The seller has 100% feedback on over 500 items.


----------



## dave13077

********* said:


> I am sure excited to see where this thread has gone. I bought one of the eBay units and it was shipped yesterday. I actually received a note from the seller that although I purchased a 500 gb I was shipped an upgrade to the 1 tb device.
> 
> I was happy about my free upgrade until now. It arrives on Monday. I hope things go smoothly. The seller has 100% feedback on over 500 items.


And has been a seller since 1999 with 100% feedback. You would think if stolen credit cards were being used it would have been an issue before now.


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## chuck.patterson.

Does ebay or PayPal protect buyers if the unit you receive was purchased on a stolen credit card?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## buckweet1980

chuck.patterson. said:


> Does ebay or PayPal protect buyers if the unit you receive was purchased on a stolen credit card?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


They claim to.. You can also do a chargeback from your CC if you paid that way.


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## dave13077

It appears so far only one person has claimed to have the service taken away. We will need a few more data points before everyone panics. Just my 2 pennies.


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## L David Matheny

dave13077 said:


> And has been a seller since 1999 with 100% feedback. You would think if stolen credit cards were being used it would have been an issue before now.


The account of a legitimate eBay user can sometimes be hijacked and then used for fraud until somebody notices and shuts it down. There could be clues in the user's feedback history.


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## dave13077

L David Matheny said:


> The account of a legitimate eBay user can sometimes be hijacked and then used for fraud until somebody notices and shuts it down. There could be clues in the user's feedback history.


I wouldn't worry until AARONWT worries....


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## chuck.patterson.

Does the Tivo Bolt have the serial/registration number on the outside of the box? The unit I am receiving from the eBay seller is supposedly an "unopened" box so I am wondering if I could check the unit with Tivo before opening.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## robertfparker

This is message from my buyer . Member of tivocommunity.com
I thought it might be something like! Thanks for letting me know, and as I noted earlier, I had no reason to believe there was a problem with you and that I wasn't quite sure what that buyer was trying to say.

Thanks for clearing that up and as soon as I get the bolt and verify it's on my TiVo account I'll leave some great feedback for you!

Thanks again!


----------



## robertfparker

chuck.patterson. said:


> Does the Tivo Bolt have the serial/registration number on the outside of the box? The unit I am receiving from the eBay seller is supposedly an "unopened" box so I am wondering if I could check the unit with Tivo before opening.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


 Tivo Bolt have the serial/registration number on the outside of the box, unopened sealed .Thanks!


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## robertfparker

Buyer on ebay feel confident to contact seller before you buy .Thanks!


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## jonw747

L David Matheny said:


> The account of a legitimate eBay user can sometimes be hijacked and then used for fraud until somebody notices and shuts it down. There could be clues in the user's feedback history.


Absolutely. The item history doesn't go back very far, but TiVo's or similar electronics do not seem to be in the mix.

eBay has also added some stumbling blocks to contacting the seller before making payment, but it's still possible, and in spite of all the verbiage they spew regarding your obligation to pay once you win a bid, I wouldn't do so if you get any negative vibes from the seller.


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## aaronwt

chuck.patterson. said:


> Does the Tivo Bolt have the serial/registration number on the outside of the box? The unit I am receiving from the eBay seller is supposedly an "unopened" box so I am wondering if I could check the unit with Tivo before opening.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Yes. The info is on the outside of the Box. Which is what I used last night when I called to add the Ebay Bolt to my account.(after initially trying the online activation....which said it was already activated)


----------



## TrackZ

aaronwt said:


> Yes. The info is on the outside of the Box. Which is what I used last night when I called to add the Ebay Bolt to my account.(after initially trying the online activation....which said it was already activated)


So did yours go through or did you have the problem getting it activated?


----------



## aaronwt

TrackZ said:


> So did yours go through or did you have the problem getting it activated?


It was already activated and they merged the account created for the order with my current account so it would get the same MAK as my other TiVos. Currently it's fine.

I asked the CSR, when I called, if the ebay TiVo was fine with billing, and she had said it was.

But if it was purchased with fraudulent credit card then I will expect things to change. I can only go by what I was told by the CSR, but as we all know that doesn't necessarily mean much. So only time will tell what happens.

But so far the ebay Bolt is on my account, it sees all my TiVos, and can transfer/stream between them.


----------



## fcfc2

Hi folks,
The fraud deal on ebay is both a credit card and a hacked Ebay account. The main tip off is the "new" box ships directly from Tivo and is already activated, usually on a new bogus account. Another tip off is an extra ordinarily long shipping time. The seller will give you double talk when you ask what the deal is, or how they can sell below the Tivo price. The Ebay account usually has a pretty good rating at the start, how long it takes to catch on at Tivo is dependent on the date of the payment cycle on the bogus credit card. Sometimes this can be drug out for a couple months before the scam becomes evident and the folks at Tivo will just cancel the service without further notice. The Tivo tech support folks are not in the loop initially either and may waste some more time forwarding the problem to "engineering"...Ebay one notified will usually act fairly quickly to close the bogus account/ seller and normally refund your money within a few days.
The process is aggravating though. The only thing Tivo will offer to do is ask you to pay them the full retail price plus shipping and tax, but interestingly, they don't ask you to send the unit back...even if you just decline to pay. Free extra power supply, remote, and parts, for you trouble.


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## gigaguy

fcfc2 is apparently talking to the same folks I am at Tivo. 
I strongly suggest not buying Bolts from individuals, esp online at this time..


----------



## trip1eX

And who was telling me there is no way these Tivo Bolts are being sold without service?


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## Dan203

I'd beware. The guy posting here claiming to be the seller has an IP address coming from Indianapolis, IN even though every item ever sold buy that eBay account says it's from Santa Monica, CA. His broken English also makes me suspect that even that is some sort of proxy and that he's really in the Ukraine or China or similar.


----------



## 483

fcfc2 said:


> Hi folks,
> The fraud deal on ebay is both a credit card and a hacked Ebay account. The main tip off is the "new" box ships directly from Tivo and is already activated, usually on a new bogus account. Another tip off is an extra ordinarily long shipping time. The seller will give you double talk when you ask what the deal is, or how they can sell below the Tivo price. The Ebay account usually has a pretty good rating at the start, how long it takes to catch on at Tivo is dependent on the date of the payment cycle on the bogus credit card. Sometimes this can be drug out for a couple months before the scam becomes evident and the folks at Tivo will just cancel the service without further notice. The Tivo tech support folks are not in the loop initially either and may waste some more time forwarding the problem to "engineering"...Ebay one notified will usually act fairly quickly to close the bogus account/ seller and normally refund your money within a few days.
> The process is aggravating though. The only thing Tivo will offer to do is ask you to pay them the full retail price plus shipping and tax, but interestingly, they don't ask you to send the unit back...even if you just decline to pay. Free extra power supply, remote, and parts, for you trouble.


This is an excellent post. I have filed a complaint with eBay and asked that they look at fraudulent selling from this account. I also appreciate the information from Dan that the ip does not match CA. Last, my unit also shipped out of Tx. I think I will just not accept delivery. I may be fortunate that what was sent to me is not what I ordered. Albeit, it was supposedly an upgrade.

I would encourage others to file a complaint with eBay. Hopefully we can get them to shut down this account before more fraud is perpetrated.


----------



## HarperVision

gigaguy said:


> fcfc2 is apparently talking to the same folks I am at Tivo. I strongly suggest not buying Bolts from individuals, esp online at this time..


Except for DavisAdmin here! He's more than proven himself here.


----------



## SlickVik

Mine already shipped out of Fort Worth, TX, even though I tried to cancel it with both eBay and PayPal - I even messaged them a link to this thread. These companies are clueless! I guess I'll refuse delivery on Monday.


----------



## Dan203

Are these units completely blackballed by TiVo? Or do they just want you to pay $150 for service? If they're completely blackballed then we have to watch out for 2nd hand sales now too as someone might try to sell one of these units to try and recoup their money and pass the bad deal on to someone else.


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## aaronwt

I still don't see any negative feedback on that ebay seller.


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## TazExprez

HarperVision said:


> Except for DavisAdmin here! He's more than proven himself here.


I agree and his prices are great!


----------



## aaronwt

Dan203 said:


> Are these units completely blackballed by TiVo? Or do they just want you to pay $150 for service? If they're completely blackballed then we have to watch out for 2nd hand sales now too as someone might try to sell one of these units to try and recoup their money and pass the bad deal on to someone else.


The one I got yesterday is on my account. The only thing I can do is wait to see if something happens. Since last night they told me that everything was proper with the TiVo.

But as of right now it shows 1 year of service with an end date in October 2016.

Then I have a second one on the way to be delivered next week. I don't know what I can do if I'm told everything is fine.

I guess I'll be constantly checking my TiVo account.


----------



## gigaguy

Thanks *********. This was a Tivo purchase, Tivo ships from Fort Worth. that's why I may have been the first to get one of these bent Bolts. ebayer must be ordering these after we pay, giving Tivo our addresses to ship to via ebay. I paid on Oct 8, my Bolt was activated on Oct 9.
I'm agreeing to do an accepted return but wish ebay would intervene. I called ebay with my concerns too but told to follow the return procedure.


----------



## 483

gigaguy said:


> Thanks *********. This was a Tivo purchase, Tivo ships from Fort Worth. that's why I may have been the first to get one of these bent Bolts. ebayer must be ordering these after we pay, giving Tivo our addresses to ship to via ebay. I paid on Oct 8, my Bolt was activated on Oct 9.
> I'm agreeing to do an accepted return but wish ebay would intervene. I called ebay with my concerns too but told to follow the return procedure.


Who are you agreeing to return it to? Did the seller respond to you on eBay?


----------



## gigaguy

seller is getting + feedback on a bolt sale. mine worked great til I called Tivo. mostly shows Tivo's ineptness and inconsistency in their support team.
wow..


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## eric102

The ebay seller pulled his 1TB listing because "the item is no longer available", yeah right


----------



## keenanSR

gigaguy said:


> seller is getting + feedback on a bolt sale. mine worked great til I called Tivo. mostly shows Tivo's ineptness and inconsistency in their support team.
> wow..


How is TiVo inept and inconsistent in this case? Can you explain what you mean by that?


----------



## aaronwt

I saw that where someone had posted positive feedback. I had expected negative feedback to be showing up. I wait a while on an ebay purchase like this before posting any feedback. But if/when I get info about service cancellation/credit card fraud, then I will be posting some negative feedback. But then if the account was hacked ebay should be eventually locking it so then no feedback can be given.

So far I have not heard anything from TiVo, eBay or Paypal. Service is still up on the Bolt.


----------



## apw2607

Did anyone get one of the beach audio tivo's yet?

I managed to get a tivo bolt for 243 from and sold by amazon. It arrived today but i just couldnt get the RF mode for the remote to work !


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## gigaguy

congrats. good seller I hope. 
Im not sure about Beach, but maybe ok.


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## waterchange

apw2607 said:


> Did anyone get one of the beach audio tivo's yet?
> 
> I managed to get a tivo bolt for 243 from and sold by amazon. It arrived today but i just couldnt get the RF mode for the remote to work !


This may not be relevant at all for you but when I couldn't get RF mode to work on my Roamio simply using the Tivo + green D buttons, I had to do more steps but sadly I don't remember explicitly what I did. It was likely re-pairing the remote to the DVR. Here's instructions for the Roamio that could be worth trying on your Bolt:

https://support.tivo.com/articles/Product_Information/Roamio-Remote-Control


----------



## HarperVision

gigaguy said:


> congrats. good seller I hope. Im not sure about Beach, but maybe ok.


Beach Audio is a good quality seller.


----------



## fcfc2

Dan203 said:


> Are these units completely blackballed by TiVo? Or do they just want you to pay $150 for service? If they're completely blackballed then we have to watch out for 2nd hand sales now too as someone might try to sell one of these units to try and recoup their money and pass the bad deal on to someone else.


Hi,
What happens is that suddenly the box will stop working and you will see a notice somewhere that "your service is deactivated, please call Tivo CS at...." or words to that effect. When you get to Tivo, their only offer is to activate service if, and only if you pay them the full retail price that they charge for a new unit. Otherwise the unit remains deactivated forever.
A couple of points, so far as I know these are only for units purchased from a few Ebay sellers, DavisAdmin is NOT ONE OF THE BOGUS SELLERS! The online dealers, Amazon, Beach Audio, etc are not the people doing this. 
The only "notification" you will get from anyone is the notice on the unit when it stops working. Paypal, Ebay, Tivo give no other notice even after they have discovered the fraud. You have to file a claim with Ebay/PayPal to get anything back. Frankly, I feel Tivo is the major source of the problem, because they are the ones allowing a person to use a credit card with an entirely different shipping address apparently with absolutely no scrutiny what-so-ever. Many online retailers will not ship to a non-billing address at all and others do quite a bit of calling / checking to confirm the order is legit. Tivo does not do this and this failure is what opens the door to this type of fraud...
Aaronwt and others, it is quite possible and likely that a new purchaser will post + feedback, especially if an early purchaser, who wouldn't, low price, fairly quick shipping, new product, etc. The problem is that it can take up to a couple months before Tivo will take action, especially if you are one of the earliest purchasers. Keep checking the sellers feedback, for any negative comments regarding fraud...but the account/ auction will be quickly closed once Ebay catches on.


----------



## keenanSR

fcfc2 said:


> Hi,
> What happens is that suddenly the box will stop working and you will see a notice somewhere that "your service is deactivated, please call Tivo CS at...." or words to that effect. When you get to Tivo, their only offer is to activate service if, and only if you pay them the full retail price that they charge for a new unit. Otherwise the unit remains deactivated forever.
> A couple of points, so far as I know these are only for units purchased from a few Ebay sellers, DavisAdmin is NOT ONE OF THE BOGUS SELLERS! The online dealers, Amazon, Beach Audio, etc are not the people doing this.
> The only "notification" you will get from anyone is the notice on the unit when it stops working. Paypal, Ebay, Tivo give no other notice even after they have discovered the fraud. You have to file a claim with Ebay/PayPal to get anything back. Frankly, I feel Tivo is the major source of the problem, because they are the ones allowing a person to use a credit card with an entirely different shipping address apparently with absolutely no scrutiny what-so-ever. Many online retailers will not ship to a non-billing address at all and others do quite a bit of calling / checking to confirm the order is legit. Tivo does not do this and this failure is what opens the door to this type of fraud...
> Aaronwt and others, it is quite possible and likely that a new purchaser will post + feedback, especially if an early purchaser, who wouldn't, low price, fairly quick shipping, new product, etc. The problem is that it can take up to a couple months before Tivo will take action, especially if you are one of the earliest purchasers. Keep checking the sellers feedback, for any negative comments regarding fraud...but the account/ auction will be quickly closed once Ebay catches on.


Wouldn't it be on the credit card company that processed the payment be responsible? Or does that still fall on the vendor(TiVo)? I believe that with the transition to EMV cards(finally!) that responsibility falls on the vendor if they don't have EMV processing. On the other hand, how does an EMV card purchase work for online vendors?

Of course, I guess PayPal would be the responsible party as they would be the payment processor.

I guess since TiVo doesn't have to activate/support products purchased from non-authorized sources they just disable the unit and let the end user deal with it. Otherwise it would be TiVo going after the payment processor, PayPal in this case, were the vendor to be authorized.


----------



## gigaguy

Once again, fcfc2 is spot on. TiVo 'advance' support admitted many mistakes by their csr's, and no I'm not blaming TiVo on ebay risks at all. Tivo will gladly let you pay them directly for the stolen box..


----------



## fcfc2

keenanSR said:


> Wouldn't it be on the credit card company that processed the payment be responsible? Or does that still fall on the vendor(TiVo)? I believe that with the transition to EMV cards(finally!) that responsibility falls on the vendor if they don't have EMV processing. On the other hand, how does an EMV card purchase work for online vendors?
> 
> Of course, I guess PayPal would be the responsible party as they would be the payment processor.
> 
> I guess since TiVo doesn't have to activate/support products purchased from non-authorized sources they just disable the unit and let the end user deal with it. Otherwise it would be TiVo going after the payment processor, PayPal in this case, were the vendor to be authorized.


The initial fraudulent action is the use of identity theft which is then used to purchase a Tivo. Credit card companies are pretty powerful and have strong contracts with their retail users. When they get notice of something like this they will charge back the amount against Tivo...done. The accepted standard of business appears to be that the retailer takes the loss. In this case, because Tivo has control over the use of it's devices, they shift the burden back to the secondary consumer, but they lose the value of the physical device, unless the secondary consumer is willing to pay them the full retail price, the device remains inactive, and other than some parts is useless. Since Tivo has recourse against the secondary consumer, they have little motivation to change/ restrict their sales practices as this would eliminate "gift" type sales. Ebay actually has a "contract" of sorts with both PayPal, and it's buyers and sellers. The last thing Ebay/Paypal wants to do is cripple their service with unhappy defrauded customers, so, they eat it.


----------



## eric102

Also remember you only have 60 days to file a claim with Ebay/PayPal so hopefully the boxes service will end before that.


----------



## tarheelblue32

eric102 said:


> Also remember you only have 60 days to file a claim with Ebay/PayPal so hopefully the boxes service will end before that.


You also only have 60 days to dispute the charge on a credit card.


----------



## aaronwt

eric102 said:


> Also remember you only have 60 days to file a claim with Ebay/PayPal so hopefully the boxes service will end before that.


Is it only 60? When I talked to ebay this morning they told me I had thirty days from receipt of item to file a claim with eBay. Then beyond that they said I had 180 days for Paypal.

The problem with me is ebay says things are fine, TiVo says things are fine. So I'm told if an issue arises that I have this amount of time to file a claim. But in the meantime anything can happen. Which is the main problem for me.

So with this second eBay Bolt being shipped, eBay told me I would need to receive it first and then initiate a return. Instead of refusing shipment. But even then since they keep telling me everything is fine with the eBay seller I'm not sure how that works for the return when from a buyer perspective, everything so far was met by the seller. If it wasn't for this thread, I would know nothing about the issues going on with those bolt auctions.

I don't understand how Ebay keeps saying things are fine yet there should be some pending issues from the other Bolts purchased by people in this thread.


----------



## keenanSR

eric102 said:


> Also remember you only have 60 days to file a claim with Ebay/PayPal so hopefully the boxes service will end before that.


Good point, which raises the question, why does it take TiVo so long to determine the device was purchased fraudulently? The timing of the purchase and the billing cycle?

Again, as fcfc2 notes, since TiVo can just shut down the device, I suppose the length of time it takes to discover the fraud is really not important to them so the end user is left holding the bag.

Full disclosure, on a whim I offered a very low ball price($220) and was surprised it was accepted(light bulb should have went off at that point right?) so I've ended up with one of these units(that I will likely leave sealed) and I'm not really sure how to proceed. Though $220 is a lot of money I'm actually more curious about this whole process of how it could happen, and because it's never happened to me before I guess I'll learn something about how to handle a fraudulent purchase claim.


----------



## keenanSR

aaronwt said:


> Is it only 60? When I talked to ebay this morning they told me I had 30 thirty days from receipt of item to file a claim with eBay. Then beyond that they said I had 180 days for Paypal.
> 
> The problem with me is ebay says things are fine, TiVo says things are fine. So I'm told if an issue arises that I have this amount of time to file a claim. But in the meantime anything can happen. Which is the main problem for me.
> 
> So with this second eBay Bolt being shipped, eBay told me I would need to receive it first and then initiate a return. Instead of refusing shipment. But even then since they keep telling me everything is fine with the eBay seller I'm not sure how that works for the return when from a buyer perspective, everything so far was met by the seller. If it wasn't for this thread, I would know nothing about the issues going on with those bolt auctions.
> 
> I don't understand how Ebay keeps saying things are fine yet there should be some pending issues from the other Bolts purchased by people in this thread.


I had the same response from Ebay when I queried them about the vendor. The thing to keep in mind is that it is to their advantage to take the stance that there is nothing wrong on their end so I wouldn't look for much support from them. I think the one to look to for help would be your credit card company.

PayPal being a separate entity from Ebay now I'm not sure where their positioning would be in this situation.

To your last point about pending issues, it's the length of time that it takes for the fraud to be discovered that makes this particular fraud so insidious, there are no complaints yet because TiVo has yet to shut down any of the devices. And since TiVo sits in the driver's seat(deactivation power), they're in no hurry to expend any resources to discover the fraud themselves.


----------



## HarperVision

gigaguy said:


> Once again, fcfc2 is spot on. TiVo 'advance' support admitted many mistakes by their csr's, and no I'm not blaming TiVo on ebay risks at all. Tivo will gladly let you pay them directly for the stolen box..


Agreed, fcfc2 is totally correct. What I'm wondering is why TiVo would see fit to charge the victim the FULL retail cost of the unit? Think about it, whichever dealer already purchased it from TiVo (to get it out of their personal warehouse and into the retail market) already paid whatever the dealer cost is, let's say $200 for a 500 GB to make it easy, which I know is close. So TiVo already made that $200 for the unit. NOW they want you to pay full retail of $299 for the box that's already out in the retail wild. That means that TiVo effectively received $499 for this particular Bolt! 

Once again another money grab by TiVo, and worse yet taking further advantage of a poor victim of fraud no less! 

P.S. - Unless of course the below is actually true? Do we have facts that this is happening?



fcfc2 said:


> The initial fraudulent action is the use of identity theft which is then used to purchase a Tivo. Credit card companies are pretty powerful and have strong contracts with their retail users. When they get notice of something like this they will charge back the amount against Tivo...done. The accepted standard of business appears to be that the retailer takes the loss. In this case, because Tivo has control over the use of it's devices, they shift the burden back to the secondary consumer, but they lose the value of the physical device, unless the secondary consumer is willing to pay them the full retail price, the device remains inactive, and other than some parts is useless. Since Tivo has recourse against the secondary consumer, they have little motivation to change/ restrict their sales practices as this would eliminate "gift" type sales. Ebay actually has a "contract" of sorts with both PayPal, and it's buyers and sellers. The last thing Ebay/Paypal wants to do is cripple their service with unhappy defrauded customers, so, they eat it.


I'm sure TiVo wouldn't accept this easily, would they?


----------



## eric102

aaronwt said:


> Is it only 60? When I talked to ebay this morning they told me I had thirty days from receipt of item to file a claim with eBay. Then beyond that they said I had 180 days for Paypal.
> 
> The problem with me is ebay says things are fine, TiVo says things are fine. So I'm told if an issue arises that I have this amount of time to file a claim. But in the meantime anything can happen. Which is the main problem for me.
> 
> So with this second eBay Bolt being shipped, eBay told me I would need to receive it first and then initiate a return. Instead of refusing shipment. But even then since they keep telling me everything is fine with the eBay seller I'm not sure how that works for the return when from a buyer perspective, everything so far was met by the seller. If it wasn't for this thread, I would know nothing about the issues going on with those bolt auctions.
> 
> I don't understand how Ebay keeps saying things are fine yet there should be some pending issues from the other Bolts purchased by people in this thread.


It could be its changed since the last time I had a dispute on Ebay (over a year ago), then it was 60 days.


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## aaronwt

HarperVision said:


> Agreed, fcfc2 is totally correct. What I'm wondering is why TiVo would see fit to charge the victim the FULL retail cost of the unit? Think about it, whichever dealer already purchased it from TiVo (to get it out of their personal warehouse and into the retail market) already paid whatever the dealer cost is, let's say $200 for a 500 GB to make it easy, which I know is close. So TiVo already made that $200 for the unit. NOW they want you to pay full retail of $299 for the box that's already out in the retail wild. That means that TiVo effectively received $499 for this particular Bolt!
> 
> Once again another money grab by TiVo, and worse yet taking further advantage of a poor victim of fraud no less!
> 
> P.S. - Unless of course the below is actually true? Do we have facts that this is happening?
> 
> I'm sure TiVo wouldn't accept this easily, would they?


These ebay units were purchased and shipped directly from TiVo. They were ordered through TiVo and then shipped to the buyers address. Well at least that was the case for the one I have received.

I really wish I could have jumped on the Beach Audio deal at Amazon instead. I would have still had no taxes and got 3% back. I guess because of this crap I will need to hold off selling my Roamio Pro. And will need to run the Bolt in tandem with it, waiting until something happens.

I did talk to someone at Paypal and they did say I have 180 days for a dispute if problems arise. So at least that info from the Ebay CSR was the same. But again the Paypal rep said everything was fine again with both eBay Bolt purchases I made using paypal.

So TiVo, Ebay, and Paypal still all say everything is fine.


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## HarperVision

aaronwt said:


> These ebay units were shipped directly from TiVo. They were ordered through TiVo and then shipped to the buyers address. Well at least that was the case for the one I have received.


Ok that would make more sense then. Carry on (my wayward son).


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## keenanSR

aaronwt said:


> These ebay units were purchased and shipped directly from TiVo. They were ordered through TiVo and then shipped to the buyers address. Well at least that was the case for the one I have received.
> 
> I really wish I could have jumped on the Beach Audio deal at Amazon instead. I would have still had no taxes and got 3% back. I guess because of this crap I will need to hold off selling my Roamio Pro. And will need to run the Bolt in tandem with it, waiting until something happens.
> 
> I did talk to someone at Paypal and they did say I have 180 days for a dispute if problems arise. So at least that info from the Ebay CSR was the same. But again the Paypal rep said everything was fine again with both eBay Bolt purchases I made using paypal.
> 
> So TiVo, Ebay, and Paypal still all say everything is fine.


When you say 'buyer's address' I presume you mean you and not the Ebay vendor who sold it to you? Not that I think it matters one way or the other in this case, but for clarity I figured I would ask, it might be useful info down the road.

So it's 180 days to file a dispute with PayPal and or Ebay and not 60?


----------



## aaronwt

keenanSR said:


> When you say 'buyer's address' I presume you mean you and not the Ebay vendor who sold it to you? Not that I think it matters one way or the other in this case, but for clarity I figured I would ask, it might be useful info down the road.
> 
> So it's 180 days to file a dispute with PayPal and or Ebay and not 60?


Yes. My address. The Buyer of the item on eBay.

Paypal told me 180 days for them. Ebay told me thirty for them. No idea if they will say the same thing the next time I call.


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## krkaufman

waterchange said:


> This may not be relevant at all for you but when I couldn't get RF mode to work on my Roamio simply using the Tivo + green D buttons, I had to do more steps but sadly I don't remember explicitly what I did. It was likely re-pairing the remote to the DVR. Here's instructions for the Roamio that could be worth trying on your Bolt:
> 
> https://support.tivo.com/articles/Product_Information/Roamio-Remote-Control


Good link, there.

I believe I've had to do a '*Global Reset*' on the RF/Roamio remote, as detailed on the linked page, when I've had difficulty RF-pairing it with a Roamio or Mini, in the past.


----------



## Dan203

So this confirms that there are now units in the wild that have been deactivated by TiVo and can not be reactivated unless the person pays the full retail price of the box. 

It seems like this situation is ripe for another layer of fraud. If someone with less then stellar morals got caught up in this deal they might decide to pass the buck on to some other unsuspecting buyer who wont realize the TiVo they bought has been black balled by TiVo until they attempt to activate it.


----------



## keenanSR

aaronwt said:


> Yes. My address. The Buyer of the item on eBay.
> 
> Paypal told me 180 days for them. Ebay told me thirty for them. No idea if they will say the same thing the next time I call.


Thanks, mine just arrived and it did indeed come directly from TiVo fulfillment with my details as the ship to.

I'm not really sure what to do with it at this point since there is no supporting information to file a claim of fraud. I suppose just use it until it stops and hope it's within that 180 day PayPal claim period, not sure how the far lesser time period for Ebay will factor into that though. Live and learn, eh?!


----------



## krkaufman

keenanSR said:


> Thanks, mine just arrived and it did indeed come directly from TiVo fulfillment with my details as the ship to.
> 
> I'm not really sure what to do with it at this point since there is no supporting information to file a claim of fraud. I suppose just use it until it stops and hope it's within that 180 day PayPal claim period, not sure how the far lesser time period for Ebay will factor into that though. Live and learn, eh?!


What was the return policy for the eBay seller? Couldn't you just return it to them, unopened?

edit: Ah, "No return accepted": link. What are the eBay buyer protections in such circumstances?


----------



## keenanSR

Dan203 said:


> So this confirms that there are now units in the wild that have been deactivated by TiVo and can not be reactivated unless the person pays the full retail price of the box.
> 
> It seems like this situation is ripe for another layer of fraud. If someone with less then stellar morals got caught up in this deal they might decide to pass the buck on to some other unsuspecting buyer who wont realize the TiVo they bought has been black balled by TiVo until they attempt to activate it.


Have there actually been some deactivations?

And yes, where there are humans there's going to be fraud, were I to ever sell the one I have for parts I would probably pry the CPU/SoC on the board so it would be impossible to activate.


----------



## keenanSR

krkaufman said:


> What was the return policy for the eBay seller? Couldn't you just return it to them, unopened?


It said no returns on the sale/offer page, but even with that it's something I've considered, although I'm not sure how that would play out with Ebay given it was stated at the time of purchase.


----------



## aaronwt

keenanSR said:


> It said no returns on the sale/offer page, but even with that it's something I've considered, although I'm not sure how that would play out with Ebay given it was stated at the time of purchase.


That's what I was unsure about. Plus how does that work if it's from a bogus account and then it's sent back to some weird address?


----------



## HarperVision

Dan203 said:


> So this confirms that there are now units in the wild that have been deactivated by TiVo and can not be reactivated unless the person pays the full retail price of the box.
> 
> It seems like this situation is ripe for another layer of fraud. If someone with less then stellar morals got caught up in this deal they might decide to pass the buck on to some other unsuspecting buyer who wont realize the TiVo they bought has been black balled by TiVo until they attempt to activate it.


Yeah this is getting to be like DirecTV and their receivers where someone doesn't pay off and fulfill their lease term and/or goes into collections. People sell those receivers on eBay and Craig's List, hoping some unknowing buyer grabs it before calling and checking with DirecTV's Access Card Dept. Once they get the receiver, they try to activate it and are denied because that unit is tied to an account in collections, etc.

I just had this happen to me with an HR-22 DVR, but I even called in and the seller was pretty shrewd. He waited until I made the purchase and shipped it, knowing I was leaving on a 2 week vacation and wouldn't activate until after I returned. When I did, I called up to put it on my account and was then told this receiver was on a bad account in collections! 

Good thing I did the deal through PayPal so I filed a dispute and won and got my money back. I still have the unit so hopefully if it goes back to being good I can activate it if I want.

Now used TiVo buyers sound like they may have to start doing the same thing to see if the one they want to buy is good to be activated on their account. Problem is, DTV CSRs are used to this since almost all of their receivers are leased. TiVo CSR would be clueless on this for awhile.


----------



## Dan203

keenanSR said:


> Have there actually been some deactivations?


fcfc2 claims his was deactivated.


----------



## keenanSR

Dan203 said:


> fcfc2 claims his was deactivated.


Okay, that was quick. So maybe TiVo is a bit quicker than has been recently discussed here.


----------



## atmuscarella

keenanSR said:


> Okay, that was quick. So maybe TiVo is a bit quicker than has been recently discussed here.


It is a factor of how quickly at credit card company picks up on the fraud and reverses the payment to TiVo. If the fraud is being limited to just this one transaction it can take awhile. In the last year I have had several of my credit card used for fraud and had to have them replaced. 2 times the credit card company identified the purchase as fraud and shut the cards down and once I noted a fraudulent pending purchase and had that card shut down that day. However if the purchase didn't get flagged by the credit card company a person could miss fraudulent purchases for a whole billing cycle and someone who isn't pay close attention to their bill might miss it for longer than that.


----------



## jonw747

HarperVision said:


> Beach Audio is a good quality seller.


They're not credit card thieves and account hackers, but "good quality" appears to be very YMMV with them:

http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Beach_Audio


----------



## keenanSR

atmuscarella said:


> It is a factor of how quickly at credit card company picks up on the fraud and reverses the payment to TiVo. If the fraud is being limited to just this one transaction it can take awhile. In the last year I have had several of my credit card used for fraud and had to have them replaced. 2 times the credit card company identified the purchase as fraud and shut the cards down and once I noted a fraudulent pending purchase and had that card shut down that day. However if the purchase didn't get flagged by the credit card company a person could miss fraudulent purchases for a whole billing cycle and someone who isn't pay close attention to their bill might miss it for longer than that.


That's what I was thinking as well, and since TiVo has no impetus for expediting things it's hard to say how long it might take for the "hammer to drop".

I think I'm just going to use the device until I can't use it anymore and if it's beyond any chance to file a claim I'll just chalk it up to experience gained, it's the first time in my 60 years on this planet it's happened so I figure at even $220 I'm still ahead of the game!


----------



## Dan203

Yeah luckily it's a relatively small purchase. My Dad almost got caught up in a similar scheme with a $20k machine he was buying for his business. Luckily he asked me first and I basically told him if the deal is too good to be true it's probably a scam of some sort. He followed it through a bit further and it got real shady so he backed out. (the guy claimed to be on vacation overseas and wanted him to send the money there, but pick up the machine here in the US)


----------



## keenanSR

Dan203 said:


> Yeah luckily it's a relatively small purchase. My Dad almost got caught up in a similar scheme with a $20k machine he was buying for his business. Luckily he asked me first and I basically told him if the deal is too good to be true it's probably a scam of some sort.


Yes, exactly, if it seems too good then there's very likely something amiss, something that basically everyone knows but some of us still do get caught up in the excitement of new toys at great prices, even at my age! .

And who knows, depending on when it gets deactivated I might still have some recourse, but I think at this point I'm basically done dealing it and ready to move on; $220 is not worth losing sleep over. At $20K though, wow, glad you and your father were saved from that horror.


----------



## Dan203

One thing to beware of.... When TiVo deactivates it you'll lose access to all network features. So there will be no way to transfer your existing 1Ps or recordings to a new TiVo. So there will be some bit of a PITA factor involved in the transition. Once you get all your 1Ps settled you might want to run kmttg on your PC and back them up. At least then you'll have a starting point. They may not match the TiVo exactly if you made changes after the backup, but it's better then starting over from scratch.


----------



## HarperVision

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Buy from Davisadmin here and you will get a deal very close to the Ebay scam one, but it'll be on the up and up through a real TiVo Dealer with class, integrity and morals.


----------



## HarperVision

jonw747 said:


> They're not credit card thieves and account hackers, but "good quality" appears to be very YMMV with them:
> 
> http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Beach_Audio


Thanks Jon. I've had nothing but good experiences with them, but as you've said YMMV. Very eye opening!


----------



## keenanSR

Dan203 said:


> One thing to beware of.... When TiVo deactivates it you'll lose access to all network features. So there will be no way to transfer your existing 1Ps or recordings to a new TiVo. So there will be some bit of a PITA factor involved in the transition. Once you get all your 1Ps settled you might want to run kmttg on your PC and back them up. At least then you'll have a starting point. They may not match the TiVo exactly if you made changes after the backup, but it's better then starting over from scratch.


Yes, I would be using the Bolt solely has an extra DVR, I already have a Roamio Basic that does everything I need and has been my primary go-to DVR, so the Bolt usage would be just to experience TiVo's new features. As I noted earlier, it was a whim purchase, I never expected the offer to be accepted so it has always been an "extra" device in my view.

Being a TiVo user for 10 years I was considering the $450 Plus deal but wanted to try out the new toy, guess I should have gone with the Plus!


----------



## aaronwt

HarperVision said:


> I've said it before and I'll say it again. Buy from Davisadmin here and you will get a deal very close to the Ebay scam one, but it'll be on the up and up through a real TiVo Dealer with class, integrity and morals.


 I wish you would have mentioned this over a week ago.


----------



## aaronwt

WTH?!  I see that ebay seller has three more positive feedbacks listed now. One of them for another Bolt.

But I guess based on what I've been told by TiVo, Ebay, and Paypal, if I had no idea this thread existed, At this point I would have been planning to post positive feedback. I would just be waiting longer to make sure there were no hardware issues before posting.


----------



## HarperVision

aaronwt said:


> I wish you would have mentioned this over a week ago.


I did, or close to it anyway. 

I may become a dealer and I'll probably sell in the $250 range if it all works out.


----------



## trip1eX

atmuscarella said:


> It is a factor of how quickly at credit card company picks up on the fraud and reverses the payment to TiVo. If the fraud is being limited to just this one transaction it can take awhile. In the last year I have had several of my credit card used for fraud and had to have them replaced. 2 times the credit card company identified the purchase as fraud and shut the cards down and once I noted a fraudulent pending purchase and had that card shut down that day. However if the purchase didn't get flagged by the credit card company a person could miss fraudulent purchases for a whole billing cycle and someone who isn't pay close attention to their bill might miss it for longer than that.


Yep remember that post from a guy that finally noticed that Tivo had been charging him every month for an old Tivo he thought he canceled 3 years prior?


----------



## atmuscarella

trip1eX said:


> Yep remember that post from a guy that finally noticed that Tivo had been charging him every month for an old Tivo he thought he canceled 3 years prior?


Ya I do. In to regards to this thread consumers only have 60 days to report fraud after it shows up on a credit card bill, so within about 90 days someone buying a Bolt from one of these questionable ebay deals should know if there is an issue or not. The problem will be if TiVo gets the charge back and cancels the Bolt's service after they can go back to ebay and/or PayPal for a refund.


----------



## bizwarrior

There is a simple way to get a return authorized by Ebay ever if the seller says no returns. I would like to see one more confirmed problem before we all jump to the conclusion of the worse case scenario.


----------



## TazExprez

HarperVision said:


> I've said it before and I'll say it again. Buy from Davisadmin here and you will get a deal very close to the Ebay scam one, but it'll be on the up and up through a real TiVo Dealer with class, integrity and morals.


Davisadm, without the extra -in.


----------



## buckweet1980

I can confirm..


----------



## bizwarrior

Since there was another poster saying there is a second report of a fraud, then I will tell you how you will get a return and money back even if the auction is labeled as no returns.

I hate to put ideas into individuals heads because I am a seller on ebay and have had someone abuse the process before. Ebay will refund your money and force a return if you claim the unit does not work even if the seller refuses to accept the return. The reason I am sensitive on this is because I had a buyer on Ebay for a product that I shipped and it was brand new and still sealed. I could tell in my communications he had buyers remorse and just did not want to call the companies tech support line. Ebay forced me to take the return even though I had labeled the auction as non-returnable. I had to prove to Ebay by sending in pictures the product was working and go through their appeals process. It was a real pain and I lost money on the auction because of this. So if you want to return a product you can tell ebay the product does not work and Ebay will force the return and get your money back to you.

In case someone wants to do this, please be sure before you do it, there really is a problem. Between the Ebay fees and the postage lost, it is very unfair to the seller if there is not a real problem.


----------



## waynomo

First call TiVo with the TSN to see if it has been purchased with a stolen credit card. If it has, report that to TiVo. If not reported as stolen merchandise yet, then you can go the other route if you like.


----------



## fcfc2

Hi guys,
The single most likely indicator in these Ebay fraudulent deals is that the "new" product is "shipped directly from Tivo" and no other location. This fact should be the first clue because all other legitimate Tivo dealers buy products in bulk and then reship them to the purchaser. Dealers do not have Tivo products drop shipped!!! If an individual buys from Tivo the product is automatically "activated" so when it arrives from Tivo and is pre-activated, this is the confirmation that there is likely fraud involved. Legit dealers, Amazon, Beach Audio, and various others units are not "pre-activated". 
Once again, there is more than one step, in this scheme, the bogus credit card, and the hacked Ebay account are likely unrelated, they don't have to be. The Ebay account holder is an unwitting dupe and victim in the scheme and their account info was likely purchased along with the credit card info. Some credit card companies will block a new card if as little as one missed payment but an established credit card account, might easily go 2 months before the cc company freezes the card. The delay in freezing the card is the window of opportunity for the schemers who will as quickly as possible draw off the paypal funds via a bogus account somewhere.
For those of you who received the drop shipped items, try start sending the seller emails about activation problems and see if you get any response at all.
EDIT: Just to clarify, I did not get ripped off buying a Bolt, I did get ripped off buying a Mini off of an Ebay seller several months ago. However, the process I describe is going to be the exact same process, with exactly the same characteristics.


----------



## gigaguy

Once again, fcfc2 is spot on, I am a longtime ebayer (1998) and apparently the first bolt bought from the seller?
Seller accepted a return. I have given warnings but no more details on my case til it's settled. Ebay has decided against me as a buyer before (unfairly, and reversed their decision) but usually ebay decides in favor of BUYER no matter what. I'm still not sure how this will turn out.'!!!
Activated Tivos, the transfer, fraud?, and TiVo reps' admitted mistakes all seemed to play into my bent bolt deal.... 
why buyers are leaving + feedback, may be due to csr inconsistency.


----------



## L David Matheny

fcfc2 said:


> The single most likely indicator in these Ebay fraudulent deals is that the "new" product is "shipped directly from Tivo" and no other location. This fact should be the first clue because all other legitimate Tivo dealers buy products in bulk and then reship them to the purchaser. Dealers do not have Tivo products drop shipped!!! If an individual buys from Tivo the product is automatically "activated" so when it arrives from Tivo and is pre-activated, this is the confirmation that there is likely fraud involved. Legit dealers, Amazon, Beach Audio, and various others units are not "pre-activated".
> Once again, there is more than one step, in this scheme, the bogus credit card, and the hacked Ebay account are likely unrelated, they don't have to be. The Ebay account holder is an unwitting dupe and victim in the scheme and their account info was likely purchased along with the credit card info. Some credit card companies will block a new card if as little as one missed payment but an established credit card account, might easily go 2 months before the cc company freezes the card. The delay in freezing the card is the window of opportunity for the schemers who will as quickly as possible draw off the paypal funds via a bogus account somewhere.


And it's worth mentioning again (as you did in an earlier post) that another tip-off is a long shipping time. That's another way for the scammer to give himself more time to process as many orders as possible before the complaints start rolling in.


----------



## gigaguy

Just want to say I appreciate all the expert help and info I've gotten on forum and pm'd by other buyers. It's not a lot of money but I did worry this could effect my accts., and it's a little stressful having to go thru procedures and still deal with seller, but that's how ebay works.


----------



## aaronwt

gigaguy said:


> Once again, fcfc2 is spot on, I am a longtime ebayer (1998) and apparently the first bolt bought from the seller?
> Seller accepted a return. I have given warnings but no more details on my case til it's settled. Ebay has decided against me as a buyer before (unfairly, and reversed their decision) but usually ebay decides in favor of BUYER no matter what. I'm still not sure how this will turn out.'!!!
> Activated Tivos, the transfer, fraud?, and TiVo reps' admitted mistakes all seemed to play into my bent bolt deal....
> why buyers are leaving + feedback, may be due to csr inconsistency.


I'm still confused. I thought it was a hacked account/credit card fraud? So I'm confused as to how the seller can accept a return if it was fraudulent to begin with. This whole thing has been very confusing. And I talked to everyone again. EBay, PayPal, and TiVo still keep telling me things are fine. Which is the most frustrating thing.


----------



## fcfc2

aaronwt said:


> I'm still confused. I thought it was a hacked account/credit card fraud? So I'm confused as to how the seller can accept a return if it was fraudulent to begin with. This whole thing has been very confusing. And I talked to everyone again. EBay, PayPal, and TiVo still keep telling me things are fine. Which is the most frustrating thing.


Hi aaronwt,
I think it helps if you have a bit of a "larcenous" heart, but the process I outlined is a multi-step process. On the Ebay account holders end, if you actually return the item to an "unchanged" ebay account holders address, and they get a return delivered, they will have absolutely no idea why or what it is about...they almost certainly are not controlling the transaction and probably are totally unaware of what is going on. If you are lucky they will start checking their Ebay/Paypal account and discover something amiss, but this is not guaranteed and certainly not guaranteed to happen quickly. But there is a fair likelyhood that the Ebay account has recently had it's address, email, and banking information changed. The Ebay account has been hacked along with the initial credit card fraud. There is no clear and obvious link between the bogus credit card, Tivo, and Ebay hacked account.
If you are someone who has made an Ebay purchase, usually with an extremely low price, and the shipping is directly from Tivo in Ft. Worth, start sending your Ebay seller messages via Ebay and simply say you are having problems activating your unit. See what they say if anything, push it and ask for a phone number, see if they will actually give you one. Once the scheme starts to fold, you will get no response. The good news is that, with the latest Paypal policies, you have about 180 days to file a claim. 
Also, neither Tivo nor Ebay likes to acknowledge fraud or even discuss it, unless it is an established fact. Tivos "deactivating" the device is going to be the first indication you will get, when you get it make sure you are talking to someone in sales, otherwise you could find yourself wasting days trying to get tech support or engineering trying to troubleshoot the problem.
I hope you are not one who is caught up, but if you are, just start the Ebay resolution process if others are doing the same thing, it will move fairly quickly and you will get your refund, but don't twiddle your thumbs as soon as the issue is clear, move.


----------



## HarperVision

TazExprez said:


> Davisadm, without the extra -in.


Thanks man. He deserves it to be right!


----------



## jedimindtrick

jonw747 said:


> They're not credit card thieves and account hackers, but "good quality" appears to be very YMMV with them:
> 
> http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Beach_Audio


Beach Audio is currently out of stock on the Tivo Bolts. Any idea if they are coming back (and for a below-MSRP price)? Just curious if anyone knows. Thanks.


----------



## aaronwt

Now I'm seeing some weird prices on eBAY. Like several auctions where they have priced the 500GB Bolt at $400? What does that mean when they have a crazy price like that? And I see one auction selling upgraded Bolts with 2TB drives for $500.


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## jonw747

aaronwt said:


> Now I'm seeing some weird prices on eBAY. Like several auctions where they have priced the 500GB Bolt at $400? What does that mean when they have a crazy price like that? And I see one auction selling upgraded Bolts with 2TB drives for $500.


Possibly fishing for buyers who can't buy the product from the normal retail chain? Re-selling an upgraded Bolt sounds like a seller trying to make some money on people uncomfortable with upgrading the product themselves.


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## lessd

One problem is that if you read the E-Bay T&C they don't want anything to do with service, just hardware, if the hardware is as described, than the sale is OK. All TiVos are pre-activated when purchased directly from TiVo, my E-Bay bogus purchase, some years ago, the seller sent me the Roamio directly from Best Buy, and Best Buy told me it was purchased at full retail $399, and I paid only like $280 or so at the time, but the Roamio Plus was not activated and I paid TiVo for the Lifetime service, so I would guess that Best Buy got stuck. Only dealers can purchase non activated TiVos (Bolt etc. ) directly from TiVo.


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## gigaguy

People are looking at this assuming too much about ebay. legally and to protect themselves, ebay MUST see that their set procedures are followed before they will intervene or even allow a claim. just because you 'think' a seller is a fraud, or there might be a problem, carries zero weight with ebay UNTIL you follow their procedures ....
You MUST wait for delivery of item if it shipped-
You MUST Communicate with seller your problem with the item,
You MUST give the seller 3 days to respond.
Only then, if you are not satisfied, ebay will escalate your claim and make a decision for a return/refund etc. you are not buying from ebay, you are buying from the seller and ebay gives both sides a chance to work it out.

This is simplified, but ebay requires these things to happen first. 
Seller can put all they want on the auction about no returns, as is, etc, this does not override ebay's policy allowing a claim, and possible return or refund.
it's simple to me, and I'm not saying always fair, but ebay has to have some sort of process and allow both parties to try to work it out.


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## jedimindtrick

HarperVision said:


> Thanks man. He deserves it to be right!


Since I'm new here, I cannot PM him directly. Anyone know of an alternative way to contact this individual? I'd like to learn more.

Or, davisadm (if you are reading this!), can you PM me with more info about what you have available? Thank you.


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## HarperVision

jedimindtrick said:


> Since I'm new here, I cannot PM him directly. Anyone know of an alternative way to contact this individual? I'd like to learn more. Or, davisadm (if you are reading this!), can you PM me with more info about what you have available? Thank you.


Just use your "jedimindtrick" to directly contact his brain!


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## jedimindtrick

HarperVision said:


> Just use your "jedimindtrick" to directly contact his brain!


Funny!! I wish I could...


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## TazExprez

jedimindtrick said:


> Since I'm new here, I cannot PM him directly. Anyone know of an alternative way to contact this individual? I'd like to learn more.
> 
> Or, davisadm (if you are reading this!), can you PM me with more info about what you have available? Thank you.


PM sent.


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## Dan203

lessd said:


> One problem is that if you read the E-Bay T&C they don't want anything to do with service, just hardware, if the hardware is as described, than the sale is OK. All TiVos are pre-activated when purchased directly from TiVo, my E-Bay bogus purchase, some years ago, the seller sent me the Roamio directly from Best Buy, and Best Buy told me it was purchased at full retail $399, and I paid only like $280 or so at the time, but the Roamio Plus was not activated and I paid TiVo for the Lifetime service, so I would guess that Best Buy got stuck. Only dealers can purchase non activated TiVos (Bolt etc. ) directly from TiVo.


The problem here is TiVo is deactivating them once they get the charge back, and then telling buyers they have to pay full price for the hardware again for it to work. Since the unit is completely useless without service I think that qualifies as a hardware issue.

Even if it doesn't I assume eBay has a policy against selling stolen goods.


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## lessd

Dan203 said:


> The problem here is TiVo is deactivating them once they get the charge back, and then telling buyers they have to pay full price for the hardware again for it to work. Since the unit is completely useless without service I think that qualifies as a hardware issue.
> 
> Even if it doesn't I assume eBay has a policy against selling stolen goods.


If you can easily prove that the product was stolen your correct, but that is not so easy as you would have to get TiVo into the act, the Bolt was sold to you without the TSN being part of the listing, so if TiVo gives you an E-Mail (fat chance) saying that TSN XXX was purchased on a stolen credit card how does E-Bay know that was the TSN delivered to you by that seller. I guess if your TiVo service gets cut off after a month, but even in that case E-Bay not giving out any warrantees except DOA and your Bolt worked for a month or so. I am not sure how this will work out. If the E-Bay account was stolen (hacked) that may be a different story as anything sold from that account would/should be bad.


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## gigaguy

I returned my ebay Bolt Saturday and got the refund quickly today.
Tivo cancelled service on the box after I called to transfer it off the acct it was sold to, to mine.
It's confusing to me. I have no proof of what was wrong, just what TIvo told me. That along with the various mistakes Tivo advance support admitted their support team made, I'm now very wary of quality control of Tivo transfers and accounts. The Bolt is still on my acct almost a week after they cancelled service and several calls to Tivo have not helped. I have had better service from the ebay seller on this Bolt than I have from Tivo.
My 2 older Tivos I bought used with lifetime both still have the previous owners name and cc on file on MY acct. The Tivo transfer procedure was followed by me and the sellers. 
I'm not blaming Tivo for a Bolt I bought used, but it's the inconsistency of the support team on all my Tivo boxes I don't like.


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## Dan203

I returned a DOA Mini like a year ago and it's still on my account. I talked to someone via chat once and asked them to remove it and they said they would, but it's still there.


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## aaronwt

My first Roamio Pro from August 2013, that was returned to BestBuy, still shows up on my account. Although it is on the Inactive list.


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## trip1eX

I sold a few Premieres ~5 years ago and still have them on my account. One of the buyers bought an extended warranty for it not long after I sold it and it was charged to my cc. Cue the multiple calls to support to rectify this issue.

They told me years later that they could take the old Tivos off my account but basically it would be a pain in the arse for them and especially for the people I sold them to. 

I just figure they are still using the same back office customer service computer system setup they had 15 years ago. And nothing has been updated to fix any of these deficiencies.


----------



## aaronwt

I need to try and get some TiVos off my account. I went last night to get the second Ebay Bolt transferred to my Account and they said I was at the limit of TiVos so they couldn't do it.. So they Kicked it up to the next support level and they are supposed to put a couple of older TiVos on another account to transfer the eBay Bolt to my current account. I don't know if this will cause issues with anything though. At least I hope not.


----------



## krkaufman

aaronwt said:


> I need to try and get some TiVos off my account. I went last night to get the second Ebay Bolt transferred to my Account and they said I was at the limit of TiVos so they couldn't do it.. So they Kicked it up to the next support level and they are supposed to put a couple of older TiVos on another account to transfer the eBay Bolt to my current account. I don't know if this will cause issues with anything though. At least I hope not.


Feel free to have them transfer an old Lifetime'd Series 2 to my account... so long as they do it quickly enough that I can take advantage of the "loyalty" deal before it expires...!


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## lessd

Just set up a dummy TiVo account and have TiVo xfer any active TiVos you don't want to that account, it is the only sure way to get them off your active account. I have being that for years without any problems.


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## aaronwt

lessd said:


> Just set up a dummy TiVo account and have TiVo xfer any active TiVos you don't want to that account, it is the only sure way to get them off your active account. I have being that for years without any problems.


If I woukd have realized I was at the limit I would have done that. But when I look at my account over two dozen boxes show up from past TiVos. I remember hitting the limit a long time ago but I thought they had raised it. I was thinking it was some crazy high amount for awhile.

I'm supposed to give them up to 48 hours. And I assume they plan on making another account. I also need to cancel the Bolt I got from BestBuy.

If I had done this prior to trying to adding the other Bolt It would have been fine too. But now they said I should wait until the other account is created. Fortunately I'm supposed to have a thirty days return period at BestBuy.


----------



## lessd

aaronwt said:


> If I woukd have realized I was at the limit I would have done that. But when I look at my account over two dozen boxes show up from past TiVos. I remember hitting the limit a long time ago but I thought they had raised it. I was thinking it was some crazy high amount for awhile.
> 
> I'm supposed to give them up to 48 hours. And I assume they plan on making another account. I also need to cancel the Bolt I got from BestBuy.
> 
> If I had done this prior to trying to adding the other Bolt It would have been fine too. But now they said I should wait until the other account is created. Fortunately I'm supposed to have a thirty days return period at BestBuy.


I had an old Series 2 on my account that I had sold over 2 years ago, the CSR made up a dummy account and moved the unit as I was on the phone, the CSR I got was very efficient, gave him a good review.


----------



## keenanSR

It looks like Ebay finally caught up with that seller. I just got an email naming the seller by the account name and indicating that the account had been hijacked. The email gave instructions for how to handle any communication with the seller, what to do if you purchased or sold to the account, lots of boilerplate stuff. Talks about how ebay would be happy to help law enforcement in its investigation, etc. It also asks for any information I(we buyers) could provide to ebay should a law enforcement investigation be undertaken.

I suspect others who purchased from that seller will be getting a similar email soon.


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## gigaguy

I got the ebay warning emails just now., better late than never. I actually got 8 emails. luckily seller gave me a refund already, strange he did that. I guess he thought the scam could go on, and it did for a while. looks like ebay retracted the pos. feedback this seller gave me too.


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## buckweet1980

Same for me.. Ebay emails galore..


----------



## aaronwt

keenanSR said:


> It looks like Ebay finally caught up with that seller. I just got an email naming the seller by the account name and indicating that the account had been hijacked. The email gave instructions for how to handle any communication with the seller, what to do if you purchased or sold to the account, lots of boilerplate stuff. Talks about how ebay would be happy to help law enforcement in its investigation, etc. It also asks for any information I(we buyers) could provide to ebay should a law enforcement investigation be undertaken.
> 
> I suspect others who purchased from that seller will be getting a similar email soon.


I don't know about an email but I do see stuff listed in my purchase history about how I don't need to pay the seller. And if I've already paid and received the items and have issues to contact ebay. I also see where the positive feedback from that seller has been removed.

So I have no idea if/when this will affect the Bolts yet. The other day I moved the 4TB drive from my BestBuy Bolt to the first ebay Bolt I received. the second eBay Bolt is up and running and I have another 4TB drive on the way. SInce the 4TB drives were on sale for $150.

So will I need to return the Bolts to eBay now?

EDIT: hmm... I just checked my Ebay email account. I don't have any emails from them about those two Bolt purchases.

EDIT: Actually my purchase history on the ebay site for each auction shows.



> We had to remove this listing from the site and you're not required to complete the transaction. If you've already sent payment, the sale should process as normal and you don't have anything to worry about. If you have any questions about delivery, please check tracking or contact your seller. If you run into any trouble along the way eBay is here to help. Please visit the Resolution Center to help resolve any problems you may encounter.


So I guess it's actually saying I don't have anything to worry about since the sale processed as normal?


----------



## buckweet1980

aaronwt said:


> I don't know about an email but I do see stuff listed in my purchase history about how I don't need to pay the seller. And if I've already paid and received the items and have issues to contact ebay. I also see where the positive feedback from that seller has been removed.
> 
> So I have no idea if/when this will affect the Bolts yet. The other day I moved the 4TB drive from my BestBuy Bolt to the first ebay Bolt I received. the second eBay Bolt is up and running and I have another 4TB drive on the way. SInce the 4TB drives were on sale for $150.
> 
> So will I need to return the Bolts to eBay now?
> 
> EDIT: hmm... I just checked my Ebay email account. I don't have any emails from them about those two Bolt purchases.
> 
> EDIT: Actually my purchase history on the ebay site for each auction shows.
> 
> So I guess it's actually saying I don't have anything to worry about since the sale processed as normal?


Correct, only need to worry if you want your money back..


----------



## aaronwt

buckweet1980 said:


> Correct, only need to worry if you want your money back..


As long as the Bolts stay up and running with the TiVo service, and can be put on my account, I am fine with them.

Although at this point I'm not in a big rush. I plan to run the Bolts in tandem with my Roamio Pro for at least four weeks. Before I get around to selling my Roamio Pro.

I just got a cable card in the first ebay Bolt last night. I guess I'll pick up another cable card and use it in the second eBay Bolt until I get rid of the Roamio Pro.


----------



## krkaufman

aaronwt said:


> So I guess it's actually saying I don't have anything to worry about since the sale processed as normal?


I expect, though, that eBay's standard response doesn't take things like the TiVo Lifetime/All In service plan into account. Having physical possession of the device and verifying that it is functional is one thing; having the possibility of the service plan pulled-out from under you at some future point is another.


----------



## keenanSR

krkaufman said:


> I expect, though, that eBay's standard response doesn't take things like the TiVo Lifetime/All In service plan into account. Having physical possession of the device and verifying that it is functional is one thing; having the possibility of the service plan pulled-out from under you at some future point is another.


Yes, that's what I would be concerned about as well, and based upon some posts by others here who have experienced this type of fraud the odds that TiVo will de-activate the units seems very high.

The one I purchased is in the process of being returned though the return address is highly suspect and I think I will end up having the unit returned back to me. Which is fine because as along as UPS has made the required attempts to make delivery Paypal will refund the original purchase amount.

It would be nice to recover the $25 I spent to return it, but I'm not sure it's worth the time and effort at this point. I'll make a call to PayPal/Ebay but if it takes more than that I'm okay with eating the shipping charge and just chalking it up to experience.


----------



## gigaguy

Not that I wanted a stolen Tivo, but mad at Tivos inconsistency on service to these Bolts. Tivo told me they could see quite a few of these Bolts charged to the same reported stolen cc and stopped my service. They even told me the female cc name and I could see it on my tivo.com Bolt cc info then they removed the name. The 'advance' support person I called admitted csrs had made mistakes allowing this Bolt to be put on my acct.

I had contacted Tivo to reset the MAK # so I could network the Bolt and then they canceled service the next day or so. Now I can't get the stolen Bolt off my Tivo acct without setting up another Tivo acct for my other Tivos.. 
The Bolt was an impulse buy at $100 off, I'm against paying future service fees anyway. All my Tivos have lifetime.


----------



## primaryforce

Well just when I thought it could not any weirder, the Tivo Bolt I purchased on eBay for $250 arrived today. The strange thing is that based on the information I saw is this thead, I contacted the "seller" and requested him to cancel the purchase. I told him that I did not want the unit if there was any risk that it was purchased using a fraudulent or stolen credit card. He agreed to cancel the "auction" on eBay which he did. Per PayPal, Ihave received the refund. The Bolt I received today from the "Fulfillment" center in Texas was sealed with a "Tivio" packing slip stating the unit may already be activated. After I verified my PayPal was reimbursed last Friday, I went to Best Buy and bought one using a 10% discount. It is up and running with a Comcast Cable card while I am contemplating upgrading the 500GB drive. Any suggestions as to my next steps with regard to the unit I received today?


----------



## krkaufman

primaryforce said:


> Any suggestions as to my next steps with regard to the unit I received today?


Coordinate a return to the seller. If that fails, return the unit to TiVo.


----------



## Flyn

primaryforce said:


> ... Per PayPal, Ihave received the refund. [...] Any suggestions as to my next steps with regard to the unit I received today?


I would ask TiVo for a shipping label, they are probably going to have to eat the cost on at least some of the units purchased with a stolen card.


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## gigaguy

If primarysource's ebay seller was the fraudulent one ebay should have sent you info on what to do. IF so, you could also call Tivo and send them $299 and use it freely.

ps- Tivo removed the stolen Bolt off my account today, right after I had called and 2 levels of support told me they couldn't do that.


----------



## primaryforce

I contacted Tivo's customer service and after getting transfered to a supervisor they are sending me a RMA shipper and a Slide Pro remote in appreciation.


----------



## lessd

primaryforce said:


> I contacted Tivo's customer service and after getting transfered to a supervisor they are sending me a RMA shipper and a Slide Pro remote in appreciation.


You did the correct thing


----------



## aaronwt

I still have not received any emails from ebay. So far both Bolts are still up and running, but I only have one of them on my account right now.


----------



## solstice

jedimindtrick said:


> Since I'm new here, I cannot PM him directly. Anyone know of an alternative way to contact this individual? I'd like to learn more.
> 
> Or, davisadm (if you are reading this!), can you PM me with more info about what you have available? Thank you.


I'm not new here but I can't PM him directly either, or I would try. 
Anyone aware of any Bolt deals?


----------



## HarperVision

solstice said:


> I'm not new here but I can't PM him directly either, or I would try. Anyone aware of any Bolt deals?


Looks like I'll have a 1TB Bolt new in box available for $349 if anyone's interested?


----------



## HarperVision

HarperVision said:


> Looks like I'll have a 1TB Bolt new in box available for $349 if anyone's interested?


I'll include free UPS shipping within the USA. If interested please reply or PM.


----------



## aaronwt

I got home and the first eBay Bolt is showing as account closed. So TiVo says the fist Bolt had a charge back from the credit card company and say that the second Bolt is fine for now. Of course it took three weeks for this to pop up on the first Bolt. So I'm on hold with eBay now to see what they want me to do.


----------



## raqball

aaronwt said:


> I got home and the first eBay Bolt is showing as account closed. So TiVo says the fist Bolt had a charge back from the credit card company and say that the second Bolt is fine for now. Of course it took three weeks for this to pop up on the first Bolt. So I'm on hold with eBay now to see what they want me to do.


Dang that sucks.. I loathe thieves...

Hope they take care of you.. I am sure you know but do a dispute on PayPal and if your Paypal funding source was a CC I'd also contact them and see what they can do..


----------



## gigaguy

ebay, Paypal or your CC will cover you. Didn't ebay send you instructions? They may even automatically credit you. they know the story..
I was mad at Tivo for dropping my Bolt so quickly for the same reason and others were seemingly unperturbed. Sorry for your issue but I feel a little better about Tivo acct handling, altho Tivo is taking 2-3 weeks to reactivate a lifetime Series 2 my friend gave me. 'Has to go to a special process.' So I miss out on current loyalty deals...
ps - the Bolt is still on my XL4 as a device. Do I have to unplug or reset to get it off?


----------



## markjrenna

Doesn't it just make sense to pony up and buy from TiVo or Weakness and sleep well at night not worrying if you were scammed while you saved $22.56?


----------



## fcfc2

markjrenna said:


> Doesn't it just make sense to pony up and buy from TiVo or Weakness and sleep well at night not worrying if you were scammed while you saved $22.56?


Hi,
I am not sure where you are coming up with your figure, but it seems like it's quite a bit lower than the potential savings on these Ebay deals. Besides, there have been some deals offered by established online retailers and the savings were multiples of your figure. None of the people caught up in this current Ebay scam are going to lose any money, but they will have some aggravation and will have to pay full price if they want to immediately replace the bad unit. This is irritating but not worth losing sleep over. 
A Tivo purchase of a DVR is often best purchased directly but only when there is a pricing advantage, discounted lifetime, etc. The purchase of minis directly is not a good idea. Tivo offers no quantity discount and you will pay on the order of $160+ for each and every one. The same minis V2 can be found easily online and on Ebay for about $120 at this time and Amazon had the V1's on sale the other day for $90 including shipping. Buy 2-3 and the savings add up fast and are far more than $22 per unit.
The fraudulent Ebay deals have one or more characteristics. They are always for a new unit, often but not always they mention extended shipping times, and they are priced lower than any other units, sometimes they will also have the sale on the or "best offer" category. It's really not hard to zero in on potential frauds if you know what to look for.
The issue is "risk vs reward". It is the same for everything in life. If you are "risk adverse" and will have trouble sleeping over such amounts, then buy direct and take your losses up front.


----------



## aaronwt

markjrenna said:


> Doesn't it just make sense to pony up and buy from TiVo or Weakness and sleep well at night not worrying if you were scammed while you saved $22.56?


You mean $96.


----------



## trip1eX

"If it's too good to be true then it usually is."


----------



## aaronwt

trip1eX said:


> "If it's too good to be true then it usually is."


But those prices were also around the same time Beach audio had them for $231.12 which would have been $87 less than I would pay from TiVo or BestBuy for a Bolt. If I could have picked it up from Beach Audio I would have but they sold out. I didn't hear about any issues from those sales.

In the end it's really just a PITA. It's not like I actually spent any money out of pocket. Ebay said I need to wait until Thursday to call back about the first Bolt I got. They said they have to go through a process of contacting the seller for a refund etc. They don't know if I need to ship it back or what yet. In the meantime The Bolt only works as basically a Live Tuner. Although all four tuners still have buffers and you can view any previously recorded programs. I had split my 200+ One passes up between the two Bolts. But they are still in use on my Roamio Pro since I didn't plan on selling my Roamio Pro until later. So I still have everything recording. And the other Bolt still working records all the scripted shows.

The only question is how long the second Bolt will continue working. TiVo told me it is currently fine. Ebay and Paypal said the same thing about the transactions. Of course they all said the same thing about the first Bolt weeks ago too.


----------



## fcfc2

aaronwt said:


> But those prices were also around the same time Beach audio had them for $231.12 which would have been $87 less than I would pay from TiVo or BestBuy for a Bolt. If I could have picked it up from Beach Audio I would have but they sold out. I didn't hear about any issues from those sales.
> 
> In the end it's really just a PITA. It's not like I actually spent any money out of pocket. Ebay said I need to wait until Thursday to call back about the first Bolt I got. They said they have to go through a process of contacting the seller for a refund etc. They don't know if I need to ship it back or what yet. In the meantime The Bolt only works as basically a Live Tuner. Although all four tuners still have buffers and you can view any previously recorded programs. I had split my 200+ One passes up between the two Bolts. But they are still in use on my Roamio Pro since I didn't plan on selling my Roamio Pro until later. So I still have everything recording. And the other Bolt still working records all the scripted shows.
> 
> The only question is how long the second Bolt will continue working. TiVo told me it is currently fine. Ebay and Paypal said the same thing about the transactions. Of course they all said the same thing about the first Bolt weeks ago too.


Hi,
The first notice you are going to get is from Tivo....same as the first one. This is triggered when Tivo gets the charge back notice from the credit card company. Then just file a claim via Ebay/Paypal and tell them the sellers account appears to have been hacked and Tivo is denying you service. Request a refund and or return with this as the explanation. In a couple of days, Ebay will notify you of the refund. At this point, the Ebay seller will know that his account has been hacked but has no use for the unit and may not even know what the transaction involved. Ebay/ PayPal is eating the charges. I would not even try to send the unit to anyone unless a refund requires it first. You get a remote and power supply for your trouble. Another option via Tivo is that if you are willing to pay the full retail price they will then reactivate the unit to your account.


----------



## aaronwt

fcfc2 said:


> Hi,
> The first notice you are going to get is from Tivo....same as the first one. This is triggered when Tivo gets the charge back notice from the credit card company. Then just file a claim via Ebay/Paypal and tell them the sellers account appears to have been hacked and Tivo is denying you service. Request a refund and or return with this as the explanation. In a couple of days, Ebay will notify you of the refund. At this point, the Ebay seller will know that his account has been hacked but has no use for the unit and may not even know what the transaction involved. Ebay/ PayPal is eating the charges. I would not even try to send the unit to anyone unless a refund requires it first. You get a remote and power supply for your trouble. Another option via Tivo is that if you are willing to pay the full retail price they will then reactivate the unit to your account.


Yes I started my claim but they said they have to go through the process of contacting the seller to initiate a refund/return first. And that I need to wait until Thursday to call them back about it. This is all after they had removed the listing and had the sellers account on a watch or something. They said they have to go through this process before they make a decision on a refund. They still might want me to return it somewhere. Although I have no idea where that would be with a hacked account.

And then I guess if for some reason I have issues with eBay I still have Paypal to use.

In the end I hope I don't have to ship it somewhere. Because the easiest solution is to pay TiVo to reactivate. Since it is still on my account. Although if they won't budge on the retail price then I would most likely end up getting another Bolt from somewhere else.


----------



## trip1eX

aaronwt said:


> But those prices were also around the same time Beach audio had them for $231.12 which would have been $87 less than I would pay from TiVo or BestBuy for a Bolt. If I could have picked it up from Beach Audio I would have but they sold out. I didn't hear about any issues from those sales.
> 
> In the end it's really just a PITA. It's not like I actually spent any money out of pocket. Ebay said I need to wait until Thursday to call back about the first Bolt I got. They said they have to go through a process of contacting the seller for a refund etc. They don't know if I need to ship it back or what yet. In the meantime The Bolt only works as basically a Live Tuner. Although all four tuners still have buffers and you can view any previously recorded programs. I had split my 200+ One passes up between the two Bolts. But they are still in use on my Roamio Pro since I didn't plan on selling my Roamio Pro until later. So I still have everything recording. And the other Bolt still working records all the scripted shows.
> 
> The only question is how long the second Bolt will continue working. TiVo told me it is currently fine. Ebay and Paypal said the same thing about the transactions. Of course they all said the same thing about the first Bolt weeks ago too.


Sounds like you're setting yourself up to get scammed again in the future. 

The Beach Audio prices came after. And were also very unusual. Probably pricing errors. The item was quickly removed from their site within 1 hr of the deal being posted. It doesn't appear anyone was able to order one.

An individual seller on Ebay with good feedback and long standing has no reason to sell a product for substantially less than the going rate.

It's good that you aren't out money and to see how far Ebay's protection policies have come. But you did help out the thieves instead of giving your money to an honest seller. And theft just contributes to higher prices for all of us.


----------



## keenanSR

aaronwt said:


> Yes I started my claim but they said they have to go through the process of contacting the seller to initiate a refund/return first. And that I need to wait until Thursday to call them back about it. This is all after they had removed the listing and had the sellers account on a watch or something. They said they have to go through this process before they make a decision on a refund. They still might want me to return it somewhere. Although I have no idea where that would be with a hacked account.
> 
> And then I guess if for some reason I have issues with eBay I still have Paypal to use.
> 
> In the end I hope I don't have to ship it somewhere. Because the easiest solution is to pay TiVo to reactivate. Since it is still on my account. Although if they won't budge on the retail price then I would most likely end up getting another Bolt from somewhere else.


If I were you I would start the ball rolling on that second Bolt right away, no sense going through the hassle all over again. In fact, try and combine both in the same process/refund/resolution. And if you feel as if Ebay isn't moving fast enough go to PayPal. Ebay seemed to be dragging their feet on my Bolt so I went to PayPal and got almost immediate results, having my refund within a day or two of initial contact, very pleased with their service on this problem.

I sent you a PM also.


----------



## gigaguy

Aaron, don't sweat it too much, ebay will make it right. they already stated the acct was hacked. I bought one and saved $100, but I was not that serious about Bolt longterm due to the spike in service costs on it, I use lifetime.

Sometimes too good to be true deals are real. My lifetimed Roamio Pro and XL4 were real, together under $600 total, bought locally from longtern Tivo users on craigslist.


----------



## aaronwt

keenanSR said:


> If I were you I would start the ball rolling on that second Bolt right away, no sense going through the hassle all over again. In fact, try and combine both in the same process/refund/resolution. And if you feel as if Ebay isn't moving fast enough go to PayPal. Ebay seemed to be dragging their feet on my Bolt so I went to PayPal and got almost immediate results, having my refund within a day or two of initial contact, very pleased with their service on this problem.
> 
> I sent you a PM also.


I told them the second Bolt had nothing show up at TiVo yet. They basically said, if the same thing happens to use the same process, but they also said not to do anything otherwise. The only big deal for me is that I have upgraded the drives in these Bolts, putting the original drives back in is not a big deal, but if I end up with an option to keep them and to pay TiVo to reactivate, that would be the easiest solution for me.

For payment I had just used PayPal Credit so there was no payment required from me for 6 months. I'll see what happens next week. I got message from Ebay that said they sent a message to the seller requesting a refund.


----------



## keenanSR

aaronwt said:


> I told them the second Bolt had nothing show up at TiVo yet. They basically said, if the same thing happens to use the same process, but they also said not to do anything otherwise. The only big deal for me is that I have upgraded the drives in these Bolts, putting the original drives back in is not a big deal, but if I end up with an option to keep them and to pay TiVo to reactivate, that would be the easiest solution for me.
> 
> For payment I had just used PayPal Credit so there was no payment required from me for 6 months. I'll see what happens next week. I got message from Ebay that said they sent a message to the seller requesting a refund.


From what others have posted TiVo may give you the option to purchase them outright but I doubt it will be for anything less than the retail price. You might get lucky though as you have two of them and it would be pure profit for TiVo since they are very likely to be covered on the original loss/sale anyway.

I'm not sure what is going to happen with the unit I have but to pay TiVo full price plus sales tax is simply not worth it to me. I don't need or want any remotes but since it's still in the factory sealed box maybe I'll try and use it as a bargaining chip to get PLS on my Basic.


----------



## apw2607

keenanSR said:


> If I were you I would start the ball rolling on that second Bolt right away, no sense going through the hassle all over again. In fact, try and combine both in the same process/refund/resolution. And if you feel as if Ebay isn't moving fast enough go to PayPal. Ebay seemed to be dragging their feet on my Bolt so I went to PayPal and got almost immediate results, having my refund within a day or two of initial contact, very pleased with their service on this problem.
> 
> I sent you a PM also.


I ordered one just fine from Beach, but ended up cancelling it a day later as amazon ended up selling a 500gb bolt for $242 ... For about 1 hour or so. Just lucked out. Figured it was much safer buying from amazon than beach. This was amazon direct, not a 3rd party seller.


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## DeltaOne

aaronwt said:


> I got home and the first eBay Bolt is showing as account closed. So TiVo says the fist Bolt had a charge back from the credit card company and say that the second Bolt is fine for now. Of course it took three weeks for this to pop up on the first Bolt. So I'm on hold with eBay now to see what they want me to do.


Here's some good info on how the eBay scam worked. Written by Brian Krebs, former Washington Post reporter who now writes Krebs On Security, a nice web site for Internet security information and discussion:

http://krebsonsecurity.com/2015/11/how-carders-can-use-ebay-as-a-virtual-atm/

He calls this a "triangulation fraud."


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## aaronwt

DeltaOne said:


> Here's some good info on how the eBay scam worked. Written by Brian Krebs, former Washington Post reporter who now writes Krebs On Security, a nice web site for Internet security information and discussion:
> 
> http://krebsonsecurity.com/2015/11/how-carders-can-use-ebay-as-a-virtual-atm/
> 
> He calls this a "triangulation fraud."


SO I guess in a normal situation this is not a big deal for the buyer. Since they have their product and it works as advertised. But since the TiVos require service, the service gets deactivated.


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## lessd

aaronwt said:


> SO I guess in a normal situation this is not a big deal for the buyer. Since they have their product and it works as advertised. But since the TiVos require service, the service gets deactivated.


I don't think E-Bay has any guarantee on service, just the product itself, well over 10 years ago I purchased a Lifetime TiVo on E-Bay, got the unit, moved the TiVo into my account with no problem, gave the seller + review as all looked good. A few weeks later TiVo took the Lifetime away saying it was a Best Buy returned and the Lifetime service was for another customer. I had a big fight with TiVo over this (I used this TCF as part of the fight) and won, but this was a pain.


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## DeltaOne

aaronwt said:


> SO I guess in a normal situation this is not a big deal for the buyer. Since they have their product and it works as advertised. But since the TiVos require service, the service gets deactivated.


Yeah. Say you bought a drill (or anything that doesn't require service/activation) you'd just think you got a good deal.

Also explains how these scammers get good reviews...the buyers are happy!


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## HarperVision

DeltaOne said:


> Here's some good info on how the eBay scam worked. Written by Brian Krebs, former Washington Post reporter who now writes Krebs On Security, a nice web site for Internet security information and discussion: http://krebsonsecurity.com/2015/11/how-carders-can-use-ebay-as-a-virtual-atm/ He calls this a "triangulation fraud."





aaronwt said:


> SO I guess in a normal situation this is not a big deal for the buyer. Since they have their product and it works as advertised. But since the TiVos require service, the service gets deactivated.


Yeah this scam would be better for the end user if they'd have used Best Buy because the cc chargeback would've happened there, so TiVo would be none the wiser and wouldn't have cancelled service. I think that's what happened last time a similar scam made its way around here with the Roamios.


----------



## foghorn2

HarperVision said:


> Yeah this scam would be better for the end user if they'd have used Best Buy because the cc chargeback would've happened there, so TiVo would be none the wiser and wouldn't have cancelled service. I think that's what happened last time a similar scam made its way around here with the Roamios.


Hey you scammers, ship out of best buy the next time!!


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## HarperVision

foghorn2 said:


> Hey you scammers, ship out of best buy the next time!!


Exactly!


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## Xab

HarperVision said:


> Looks like I'll have a 1TB Bolt new in box available for $349 if anyone's interested?


Dave - just curious why you are getting rid of the Bolt?


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## HarperVision

Xab said:


> Dave - just curious why you are getting rid of the Bolt?


This was the first one I ordered from Best Buy online and they shipped it via USPS Parcel Post (takes min. 6-8 weeks to HI) with that arrangement through UPS. I did it during the preorder period before it was even released, so when I saw that was the shipping I called them immediately and told them to cancel the order and don't ship it. At first the lady said she wasn't able to cancel it (why, who the heck knows because it was only a preorder!) and said that I had to wait for it to ship and then call to intercept the package and have it sent back. Then I decide to call back a day or so later and see what they can do again because I DO NOT want to have to wait 6-8 weeks to get it just to return it all the while the full price is sitting on my credit card! This CSR assures me she can cancel it and talks trash about the prior CSR wondering why SHE couldn't have just cancelled it. Of course, as I expected, a few days later it says it shipped anyway so I call up to intercept and cancel and of course they say they can't do that since it was already turned over to the USPS  So I call back BB Elite AGAIN and by this point am really pi55ed off, go through the whole story and this CSR offers a pretty decent credit back to my order and then I could decide whether to keep it at the discounted rate when it FINALLY arrives, or just return it for full credit.

All the while, knowing it would take so long to get here, I asked a coworker over on Oahu, where there's 2 Best Buys, to pickup a new Bolt order I made online for store pickup (the one I have activated and hooked up now) and ship it to me here on the Big Island.

The original Bolt finally showed up and I thought, "Hey, I may as well keep this at the great rate and pass the savings on to a TCF member instead of send it back and lose the discount", so I did. 

EDIT: It's sold already BTW


----------



## aaronwt

Well I just got a refund from eBay for the first eBay Bolt(so far the second eBay Bolt is still fine). So I'm on the phone now with TiVo. They told me they cannot re-activate the TiVo and that I would need to pay for a new one to be sent out. Which makes no sense to me. But she said she is going to talk to a supervisor about it.


----------



## aaronwt

So TiVo is just crazy. I finally got a supervisor and he said they would not let me pay $240 or $250 for it. That it would need to be $299 + tax. He put me on hold and said he would ask accounting if they would let me pay less than retail. Supposedly they said no. The reason he said was they they would not lose $50 on it. WTF? So now they have lost all money on the ebay Bolt since I will be getting a new one somewhere else plus still have the deactivated one. It just defies logic that they would not take $240 or $250 for it. I don't understand it.

So I just told him to remove it from my account. I'm at the limit for active TiVos so I need it removed before I can add the new Bolt to my account..


----------



## DeltaOne

aaronwt said:


> I finally got a supervisor and he said they would not let me pay $240 or $250 for it. That it would need to be $299 + tax.


Whoa - you wanted TiVo to accept the price you paid to a scammer on eBay? If so, totally unreasonable - I don't blame TiVo for wanting full price. Or did I misunderstand?


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## atmuscarella

DeltaOne said:


> Whoa - you wanted TiVo to accept the price you paid to a scammer on eBay? If so, totally unreasonable - I don't blame TiVo for wanting full price. Or did I misunderstand?


Well if they don't give him a deal they get nothing for that unit ever and it becomes free parts for aaronwt, the remote, power supply, & hard drive are all worth something.

It would make sense for TiVo to take something for it and it doesn't make sense for aaronwt to offer TiVo anymore than what he can replace it for somewhere else. Even if he was nice and offered to return it to TiVo, TiVo has to pay to ship it back and has a used unit that will have to go through reconditioning testing to be shipped out again (most likely as a warranty replacement).


----------



## keenanSR

atmuscarella said:


> Well if they don't give him a deal they get nothing for that unit ever and it becomes free parts for aaronwt, the remote, power supply, & hard drive are all worth something.
> 
> It would make sense for TiVo to take something for it and it doesn't make sense for aaronwt to offer TiVo anymore than what he can replace it for somewhere else. Even if he was nice and offered to return it to TiVo, TiVo has to pay to ship it back and has a used unit that will have to go through reconditioning testing to be shipped out again (most likely as a warranty replacement).


It does seem like TiVo asking full price is rather silly given the unit has already been in service. TiVo has already or will be covered for their loss on the original sales so getting anything at all for Aaron's units would be pretty much pure profit. On the other hand, the fact that they're asking full boat for it might mean they weren't covered for that sort of loss, although I find that hard to believe.

The unit I purchased, which is being returned to me because the bogus seller gave a bogus return address, is still factory sealed in the box. It will be here Monday and I was going to give TiVo a call and see what they have to say. It will be interesting to see if a factory sealed unit warrants any different response than the one Aaron has received.


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## foghorn2

Quit pulling each other!


----------



## meckel

keenanSR said:


> It does seem like TiVo asking full price is rather silly given the unit has already been in service. TiVo has already or will be covered for their loss on the original sales so getting anything at all for Aaron's units would be pretty much pure profit. On the other hand, the fact that they're asking full boat for it might mean they weren't covered for that sort of loss, although I find that hard to believe.
> 
> The unit I purchased, which is being returned to me because the bogus seller gave a bogus return address, is still factory sealed in the box. It will be here Monday and I was going to give TiVo a call and see what they have to say. It will be interesting to see if a factory sealed unit warrants any different response than the one Aaron has received.


TiVo would be charged backed for the full amount by the CC company the fraud was committed against. So TiVo would right off the full amount as shrink. Wanting the full amount is not unreasonable, however righting off a $60-$50 loss is better than a $300.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## aaronwt

DeltaOne said:


> Whoa - you wanted TiVo to accept the price you paid to a scammer on eBay? If so, totally unreasonable - I don't blame TiVo for wanting full price. Or did I misunderstand?


That wasn't the price I paid on ebay. I paid $222 on eBay.

The TiVo Bolt is lost to them. They got a charge back so they are out the money that a Bolt cost. Even though I got a full refund of $222 form Ebay, I offered TiVo $250. They said they couldn't lose $50 on it. Yet they already lost the full cost of a Bolt. I'm not about to pay full price plus 6% taxes from TiVo when I can get it for less. So I will have a Bolt that I can use for spare parts since they did not want to take the $250.

And after the time I spent on the Phone, if they came back and changed their minds I wouldn't give them more than $225 at this point. They wasted too much of my time today.

If the same thing happens to my second eBay Bolt, then I won't even ask TiVo about paying to get it activated. I will just have them remove it from my account, and have it for a second Bot to use for spare parts. And I will purchase another Bolt from somewhere else again.

The only question is when I will get the replacement Bolt. Since we are so close to Thanksgiving, I might just wait until after Black Monday too see if there are any deals that weekend.


----------



## aaronwt

meckel said:


> TiVo would be charged backed for the full amount by the CC company the fraud was committed against. So TiVo would right off the full amount as shrink. Wanting the full amount is not unreasonable, however righting off a $60-$50 loss is better than a $300.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


WHich is why I don't understand. It makes no sense to me that they are willing to write off $300 but not $50. And realistically, I would think retail stores pay less than $250 for the Bolts. So they basically would have received more than they get from a retailer for the Bolt. Which again makes the decision more perplexing to me.

At no point did TiVo ask me to send the Bolt back. If they would have asked then I would have sent it back to them as long as they payed for shipping.


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## Flyn

aaronwt said:


> WHich is why I don't understand. It makes no sense to me that they are willing to write off $300 but not $50. And realistically, I would think retail stores pay less than $250 for the Bolts. So they basically would have received more than they get from a retailer for the Bolt. Which again makes the decision more perplexing to me.
> 
> At no point did TiVo ask me to send the Bolt back. If they would have asked then I would have sent it back to them as long as they payed for shipping.


With chargeback fees and tax, they have most likely lost around $350 on you. It might be worth it to avoid setting a precedent of giving people discounts on merchandise purchased in a similar way. Earlier in the thread, they sent a shipping label for a locked bolt to be returned, and gave them a Slide Pro for their trouble; maybe they didn't suggest it to you because they can see yours has been altered?


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## aaronwt

Flyn said:


> With chargeback fees and tax, they have most likely lost around $350 on you. It might be worth it to avoid setting a precedent of giving people discounts on merchandise purchased in a similar way. Earlier in the thread, they sent a shipping label for a locked bolt to be returned, and gave them a Slide Pro for their trouble; maybe they didn't suggest it to you because they can see yours has been altered?


The way the suprevisor acted, he probably would have thrown it in my face if he noticed that there was 4TB drive in it.

At least now I have the opening and closing of the Bolt down pat. It only takes me a minute or two to open or close the enclosure now.


----------



## Flyn

aaronwt said:


> The way the suprevisor acted, he probably would have thrown it in my face if he noticed that there was 4TB drive in it.
> 
> At least now I have the opening and closing of the Bolt down pat. It only takes me a minute or two to open or close the enclosure now.


Perhaps, but I think that TiVo wants to remain completely neutral on drive replacement, which you're at the visible forefront of for the internet. Lots of lurkers will be doing what you report success with, and if the lesson is "putting in a big drive is easy, but buying from a sketchy seller is a pain because they can lock it," I think I'd go with that, if I had to set policy. I know that after reading what you have gone through, I would not consider buying a Bolt from eBay, but I already have my 4tb drive ready to go once I see a legitimate deal (and hopefully Amazon 4k gets enabled).


----------



## lessd

aaronwt said:


> WHich is why I don't understand. It makes no sense to me that they are willing to write off $300 but not $50. And realistically, I would think retail stores pay less than $250 for the Bolts. So they basically would have received more than they get from a retailer for the Bolt. Which again makes the decision more perplexing to me.
> 
> At no point did TiVo ask me to send the Bolt back. If they would have asked then I would have sent it back to them as long as they payed for shipping.


TiVo may not have to eat the total charge back, depending on the terms of their credit card agrement, as the credit card was stolen but TiVo, at the time, did not know.


----------



## keenanSR

Called TiVo today to see if they wanted the one I got back(still sealed) and the rep said if it was sent back it would just end up going to an electronic recycling company, she said she's had this sort of call before(fraudulent purchase) and that was the outcome. Given that, I'm fairly certain that TiVo is covered for this sort of loss and doing anything with the device might be construed as fraudulent on their part by their loss carrier.

Maybe I'll hook it up and see how long I can get service with it before TiVo shuts it down.


----------



## aaronwt

keenanSR said:


> Called TiVo today to see if they wanted the one I got back(still sealed) and the rep said if it was sent back it would just end up going to an electronic recycling company, she said she's had this sort of call before(fraudulent purchase) and that was the outcome. Given that, I'm fairly certain that TiVo is covered for this sort of loss and doing anything with the device might be construed as fraudulent on their part by their loss carrier.
> 
> Maybe I'll hook it up and see how long I can get service with it before TiVo shuts it down.


Mine still works with four tuners and four buffers. And can tune to all of my cable channels. But that's pretty much it. It's been ten days since they terminated service on the box.


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## keenanSR

aaronwt said:


> Mine still works with four tuners and four buffers. And can tune to all of my cable channels. But that's pretty much it. It's been ten days since they terminated service on the box.


Interesting, maybe I'll hook it up later tonight and give it a try.


----------



## aaronwt

Well the other shoe dropped today. My second Ebay Bolt went to "Account Closed" status. So TiVo had a chargeback for that box like the other Ebay Bolts. I initiated the claim/return/refund process from Paypal since it's been too long to go through eBay. But now I need to wait several weeks for a response before the case can be escalated. 

At least I can swap drives now in only a few minutes so at least that process is quick.


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## Robbo1

$290 on Amazon today for the 500GB.


----------



## aaronwt

Maybe today will be a good day for me to get a replacement Bolt from Bestbuy. If I can price match to the $290 from Amazon, use this 10% off coupon, and use my Reward Zone Dollars.


----------



## Robbo1

Robbo1 said:


> $290 on Amazon today for the 500GB.


$288 today. Lowest Amazon price yet-- http://camelcamelcamel.com/TiVo-500...ent-System/product/B013X8YI5I?context=tracker


----------



## davezatz

Anyone else get this?


----------



## SlickVik

davezatz said:


> Anyone else get this?


I just bought a 1TB - with that deal the lifetime equation is balanced again 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## eric102

$50 gift card at BB with Bolt purchase: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/tivo-bo...=8575135&loc=0&id=1219738348521&skuId=4366000

Also get them to price match Amazon at $285.


----------



## aaronwt

eric102 said:


> $50 gift card at BB with Bolt purchase: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/tivo-bolt-500gb-unified-entertainment-system-4k-ultra-hd-white/4366000.p?acampID=0&ref=8575135&loc=0&id=1219738348521&skuId=4366000
> 
> Also get them to price match Amazon at $285.


Is this offer in store too?


----------



## mudd77

aaronwt said:


> Is this offer in store too?


Yep, sure is. I just picked one up. Got the $50 gift card immediately at check out. Not sure how long the promotion will be going though. It was not advertised anywhere in my local store.


----------



## waynomo

SlickVik said:


> I just bought a 1TB - with that deal the lifetime equation is balanced again
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm not sure what kind of scale you're using. A better deal? Yes. Balanced, not quite. That's still over $500 for lifetime. Remember the price of the Bolt already has a year of service built in.


----------



## overFEDEXed

aaronwt said:


> Is this offer in store too?


Or if you have an American Express card and have a Rewards account with at least two points, you can get a $60 e-gift card *and* possibly the $50 card when you pick it up! I don't know if these offers will combine, but give it a try.

_AMEX Rewards Shopping: Earn Bestbuy e-gift card up to $300
Shop Best buy via American Express Rewards and earn e-gift card

$50-100 = $15 e-gift
$100-200 = $30 e-gift
$200-400= $60 e-gift
$400-750= $120 e-gift
$750- 1000= $225 e-gift
$1000 + = $300 e-gift_

Just follow these instructions in this post and thanks to corrado85 over therehttp://slickdeals.net/f/8390403-amex-rewards-shopping-earn-bestbuy-e-gift-card-up-to-300?t=8390403

I just recently did this deal on a $450 camera bundle and will receive a $120 e-gift card. I called an Amex rep to confirm too. If you purchase the $399 bolt with a $1 filler, you could get the $120 e-gift card!

Post any questions and I'll be glad to answer them.


----------



## TonyD79

mudd77 said:


> Yep, sure is. I just picked one up. Got the $50 gift card immediately at check out. Not sure how long the promotion will be going though. It was not advertised anywhere in my local store.


Wow. They are mailing mine to me.


----------



## Hilbe

I bought my Bolt around thanksgiving during the $100 Mini promo. I went back to the store yesterday and returned the Bolt (only receipt with me) and rebought it to get the $50 promo. Also pricematched Amazon


----------



## aaronwt

I just got the BestBuy deal. In store they price matched Amazon to $285 and gave me the $50 gift card at the register. Plus I get 5% back($14.25) in Reward Zone dollars. Taking my total down to $221 + around $17 in taxes(on the $285 price). So that price is around what the ebay scam price was a few months ago.

The Best Buy MAgnolia sales person went to the back to bring several up. He said they came in this week. But I was surprised that the manufacture date was only September 15. The ones I got previously were August or early September. So I had expected a later manufacture date. No big deal though. I do see where the HDMI screw head is a different size from the earlier one I looked at.

I'm going through the setup now. I'll run it for the week and put the 4TB drive in it by next weekend.


----------



## TrackZ

I bought my Bolt a few weeks ago in store with a 10% off coupon. Was able to go in and get the $50 card as a promotion match and kept the 10% off price.


----------



## HarperVision

Here is an open box, excellent condition 1TB Bolt at Best Buy for $352. If you're able to get the $50 gift card, that would be a nice deal for basically $302.


----------



## aaronwt

The $50 gift card ended on Saturday. I went back there on Sunday to price match a few items and thought I would try the $50 gift card match for the Bolt I got at Thanksgiving. But that promotion had ended. I wish I had checked on Saturday when I picked up the other Bolt. I did at least get them to price match to $285 teh Bolt I got before Thanksgving. But then later I realized I might have screwed myself with the AMEX money back deal I got from BestBuy when I purchased that Bolt..


----------



## Gunnyman

I've been offered a deal $599 for the 500 GB Bolt and Tivo's All In Service (Lifetime Service) Wondering how good this is and if I should jump on it.


----------



## atmuscarella

Gunnyman said:


> I've been offered a deal $599 for the 500 GB Bolt and Tivo's All In Service (Lifetime Service) Wondering how good this is and if I should jump on it.


New unit from TiVo or used from someone else? If from TiVo that is the lowest price I have heard with all in/lifetime and it is the same price i paid for my Roamio with lifetime so I would say it is a good deal.


----------



## TonyD79

aaronwt said:


> The $50 gift card ended on Saturday. I went back there on Sunday to price match a few items and thought I would try the $50 gift card match for the Bolt I got at Thanksgiving. But that promotion had ended. I wish I had checked on Saturday when I picked up the other Bolt. I did at least get them to price match to $285 teh Bolt I got before Thanksgving. But then later I realized I might have screwed myself with the AMEX money back deal I got from BestBuy when I purchased that Bolt..


Besides, the gift card (mine came today) was only for the 500 system. If it were for the 1tb, I may have bought that one.

I got the smaller and figure I will add a pro next year.


----------



## Gunnyman

atmuscarella said:


> New unit from TiVo or used from someone else? If from TiVo that is the lowest price I have heard with all in/lifetime and it is the same price i paid for my Roamio with lifetime so I would say it is a good deal.


New from Tivo. Thanks. I'll think about it.


----------



## aaronwt

Gunnyman said:


> New from Tivo. Thanks. I'll think about it.


 $599 new from TiVo? I would have jumped on that. That is 40% lower than what it normally costs.


----------



## Gunnyman

aaronwt said:


> $599 new from TiVo? I would have jumped on that. That is 40% lower than what it normally costs.


Awesome. I'll probably jump on it.


----------



## Gunnyman

And I did. I upped it to the 1 TB for 100 bucks more. I haven't owned a Tivo for about 10 years.


----------



## snedecor

After many years with Tivo (2 series 1 lifetimes, 2 series 2 yearly) I went over to the dark side of satellite and ATSC antenna, hosted by Windows Media Center. 

I finally dumped satellite for analog/digital cable, and can think about TiVo again (although still not a fan of ads in the UI).

Any deals for either the Bolt or Roamio's? I logged onto the TiVo web site and did not see any deals tied to my account log in, do, do they not have deals for old customers?

I'm not a fan of doling out money, so I'm probably looking at "all-in" pricing.

Thanks!

Gayle Snedecor


----------



## snedecor

Gunnyman said:


> I've been offered a deal $599 for the 500 GB Bolt and Tivo's All In Service (Lifetime Service) Wondering how good this is and if I should jump on it.


What was the source of the offer? Existing customer benefit, or mollifying some type of complaint, or something completely different?


----------



## jhermit

aaronwt said:


> $599 new from TiVo? I would have jumped on that. That is 40% lower than what it normally costs.


The way I look at it would be that this deal is equal to a Tivo 500G + 3 years service (1 year included and then 2x149.99 per year). So if you think you would keep it for more than 3 years it is a good deal. Since we are at the beginning of the model lifecycle for the Bolt, I think there is a very good chance that you will keep it for greater than 3 years.

I am new to Tivo and just bought that Bolt 500G at BestBuy in the deal I found here with the giftcard (thanks to all). I upgraded the hard drive to a 2TB for $99 from Amazon because I think 500GB is not enough for High Def recordings in a family of 6 . Installing the Bolt, 1 mini, and upgrading the Hard Drive was very straight forward and I did not have any problems.

I dumped DirecTV and my family is loving having NetFlix, Amazon, TV, and DVR all in the same box.


----------



## Gunnyman

snedecor said:


> What was the source of the offer? Existing customer benefit, or mollifying some type of complaint, or something completely different?


I have a friend who works for Tivo and he extended me the Friends and Family offer (his last one)


----------



## tibbyjr

Bolt is $211 with promo code at Frys , today and tomorrow


----------



## fcfc2

tibbyjr said:


> Bolt is $211 with promo code at Frys , today and tomorrow


And the Promo Code is???


----------



## tibbyjr

Go to Frys website and sign up , $249 without code.


----------



## tvmaster2

tibbyjr said:


> Go to Frys website and sign up , $249 without code.


correct, you must sign up. then you get code.


----------



## brettb

tibbyjr said:


> Bolt is $211 with promo code at Frys , today and tomorrow


In-store only, unfortunately. And I can't get my promo code to work for in-store pickup. I may have been able to do Discover Price Protection if I had been able to....


----------



## steinbch

brettb said:


> In-store only, unfortunately. And I can't get my promo code to work for in-store pickup. I may have been able to do Discover Price Protection if I had been able to....


Assuming that you signed up for the Fry's emails today: The email says that you need to either bring your Instant Promo code to the store and they will exchange it for a live in-store promo code OR you can call them and use that Instant Promo Code over the phone. Not sure why they make this so complicated.

These prices are so low that I'm tempted to pick one up even though I've got a lifetime Roamio Plus. Eek.


----------



## brettb

steinbch said:


> Assuming that you signed up for the Fry's emails today: The email says that you need to either bring your Instant Promo code to the store and they will exchange it for a live in-store promo code OR you can call them and use that Instant Promo Code over the phone. Not sure why they make this so complicated.
> 
> These prices are so low that I'm tempted to pick one up even though I've got a lifetime Roamio Plus. Eek.


I was aware of issues (in general) with Promo Codes from day-of subscriptions but I've been on the list for a long time, now.

I suspect that I could call but given that I'm really interested in a doing a Discover Price Protection, I'm not inclined to do that.


----------



## tivoboy

I signed up again this morning, since I hadn't received my regular FRY's email.. got the code, went into store, picked one up no problem at 211.67$, + CA tax 229$..

Not to bang on comcast to lower my rates and find a solid 3TB hard drive - preferably external.


----------



## steinbch

Had my dad go in and price match after he purchased last week at BB with the $50 GC. Ended up getting the price match, so ultimately got it for the $211 and a $50 gift card. Not bad at all.


----------



## JTHOJNICKI

Bought my 500GB Bolt today at Fry's and had them price match the Mini II from Amazon for $117.25. No problem.


----------



## tvmaster2

steinbch said:


> Had my dad go in and price match after he purchased last week at BB with the $50 GC. Ended up getting the price match, so ultimately got it for the $211 and a $50 gift card. Not bad at all.


Does this Bolt from Fry's include the same one-year service which the purchased-from-Tivo units do? And then after one year, you're on your own, service wise?


----------



## steinbch

tvmaster2 said:


> Does this Bolt from Fry's include the same one-year service which the purchased-from-Tivo units do? And then after one year, you're on your own, service wise?


Yes!


----------



## Corndart

steinbch said:


> Had my dad go in and price match after he purchased last week at BB with the $50 GC. Ended up getting the price match, so ultimately got it for the $211 and a $50 gift card. Not bad at all.


Nice. They wouldn't PM the $211 + the $50gc for me at Best Buy but they did PM the $249 Frys.com website price. This was over the phone and saved me a few hours of running around to exchange so I was satisfied.


----------



## JTHOJNICKI

Yes, the Bolt from Fry's includes the free 1st year of service.


----------



## TIVOAtl

Can someone post a link to download the old Frys ad of $249 or post a screen shot of that ad?

Im trying to get Best Buy to adjust my price - and it has been an absolutely horrible experience that has dragged on for days..


----------



## brettb

TIVOAtl said:


> Can someone post a link to download the old Frys ad of $249 or post a screen shot of that ad?
> 
> Im trying to get Best Buy to adjust my price - and it has been an absolutely horrible experience that has dragged on for days..


Let's see if this works...

Screenshot 1 one (top of page)

Screetnshot 2 (with Bolt on it)


----------



## tvmaster2

Bolt on sale today at Frys for one day only, with a promo code:

http://images.frys.com/art/email/020616_sat932lds/sat_web.html?promocode=1901196


----------



## eric102

tvmaster2 said:


> Bolt on sale today at Frys for one day only, with a promo code:
> 
> http://images.frys.com/art/email/020616_sat932lds/sat_web.html?promocode=1901196


Good deal but on back order already.


----------



## tvmaster2

eric102 said:


> Good deal but on back order already.


----------



## SomeRandomIdiot

eric102 said:


> Good deal but on back order already.


It says they are accepting backorders and expected to ship by 2/19.

Is 2 weeks too long to wait for a 20% savings?

Also available in stores if you are in a Frys Retail Location.


----------



## tvmaster2

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> It says they are accepting backorders and expected to ship by 2/19.
> 
> Is 2 weeks too long to wait for a 20% savings?
> 
> Also available in stores if you are in a Frys Retail Location.


----------



## neel

Hi, new to the forum here. Been looking to get a TiVo bolt ever since I found out I can ditch the crappy Charter Cable Box and replace it with a tivo. 

Thanks to this thread that I stumbled upon, I went to Best Buy, they price matched with Fry's ad and on top of it, I still got the $50 gift card at the store. So anyone looking to get a bolt and can't find at Fry's might want to try that option. 

Now I'm trying to set it up using cable card and tuning adapter... kind of new at this but I think I got this.


----------



## CoxInPHX

Fry's again $239 w/ Promo Code - In Store Only

http://images.frys.com/art/email/021216_fri941phx/fri_web.html#set3


----------



## tvmaster2

Monday and Tuesday, for promo code folks, $239.


----------



## zexel

tvmaster2 said:


> Monday and Tuesday, for promo code folks, $239.


Only in store not available for shipping.


----------



## tvmaster2

zexel said:


> Only in store not available for shipping.


correct.


----------



## JTHOJNICKI

Get the 500GB Bolt and swap in a 3TB drive. It's incredibly easy. Watch Intellibeam's Bolt upgrade video on YouTube.


----------



## beyondthetech

JTHOJNICKI said:


> Get the 500GB Bolt and swap in a 3TB drive. It's incredibly easy. Watch Intellibeam's Bolt upgrade video on YouTube.


Wouldn't this invalidate the Continual Warranty that TiVo offers with the unit? I'm sure they'd know changes have happened to the unit, since it's always calling home and trading information. With dropping prices for laptop hard drives and just $29 for an eSATA enclosure on Amazon like this one, I'd probably not risk losing coverage over a mod.

As of today, Best Buy still has the 1TB TiVo Bolt for $378 (a whopping $21 savings off the regular $399 price).


----------



## brettb

beyondthetech said:


> ... With dropping prices for laptop hard drives and just $29 for an eSATA enclosure on Amazon like this one, I'd probably not risk losing coverage over a mod. ...


Has anyone gotten a modern eSATA enclosure/drive combination to work with the Bolt?

My impression was that Tivo was (falsely) claiming expandability and the only known working/approved drive was a long-ago discontinued WD 1TB media extender drive.


----------



## bertman64

Got the 500gb Bolt for 239 at Frys Mon. Set up Tivo account online but it would not activate and said to call which I have not done yet as Guide, suggestions and manual recording are working. How long will it keep working unactivated like this? Now Weaknees is offering 400.00 Lifetime on full price Bolts. Wonder if I can get that on this one? If not I pay nothing more and use the one year included!


----------



## aaronwt

bertman64 said:


> Got the 500gb Bolt for 239 at Frys Mon. Set up Tivo account online but it would not activate and said to call which I have not done yet as Guide, suggestions and manual recording are working. How long will it keep working unactivated like this? Now Weeknees is offering 400.00 Lifetime on full price Bolts. Wonder if I can get that on this one? If not I pay nothing more and use the one year included!


When did Weaknees start offering Lifetime service?


----------



## dave13077

Yup just checked the Weaknees site. $400 for all in pricing (formerly lifetime). Offer ends 4/18/16.


----------



## beyondthetech

dave13077 said:


> Yup just checked the Weaknees site. $400 for all in pricing (formerly lifetime). Offer ends 4/18/16.


Can one buy the Lifetime outright from them, or does it have to be specifically with TiVos purchased through them?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bowlingblogger

I spoke to a Tivo phone CSR yesterday and I asked him this very question. Specifially, I told him I was planning on buying a Bolt from Best Buy and wanted to know if I could call to purchase All-In from Tivo after purchase for $400. He said yes, no problem; and the deal is good through the end of March. I haven't called back yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if I get told the option is not available...but I'll just take another spin at CSR roulette.


----------



## eric102

$400? That's back to the old lifetime price! 

I wonder if that will go down even further once our 1 year of free is about to expire and we call in to cancel service?


----------



## brettb

I wonder if a Bolt "Pro" announcement might follow the expiration of the $400 All-in promo?

That's would be a little mean, though.


----------



## atmuscarella

Did anyone really not expect the Bolt's price and the cost of lifetime to not come down via sales and special offers? This is how it works and why we all told people no reason to buy lifetime until the first year is up.


----------



## bowlingblogger

Yeah, I think I'll take my chances and see what happens w/All-in pricing during my free year. Gives me a chance to see if I like the Bolt enough to go for it and take advantage of whatever price drops emerge.


----------



## mjh

dave13077 said:


> Yup just checked the Weaknees site. $400 for all in pricing (formerly lifetime). Offer ends 4/18/16.


Found it:

http://www.weaknees.com/tivo-bolt-4k-series6.php​
Screenshot








Interesting. This means that if I could sell my Roamio OTA for the $600 that they seem to be fetching on ebay, I could upgrade to a bolt for about $100. Hmmm...


----------



## markjrenna

do you guys think $400 is a good deal or should I wait hoping for a better deal?


----------



## Scooter Scott

mjh said:


> Found it:
> 
> http://www.weaknees.com/tivo-bolt-4k-series6.php​
> Screenshot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. This means that if I could sell my Roamio OTA for the $600 that they seem to be fetching on ebay, I could upgrade to a bolt for about $100. Hmmm...


You have me thinking the same thing...


----------



## atmuscarella

markjrenna said:


> do you guys think $400 is a good deal or should I wait hoping for a better deal?


Only you can answer your exact question, however if you are actually asking if we believe there will be a better deal than $400 for lifetime on existing Bolts, then my answer is yes. I believe that someday TiVo will offer all in/lifetime for an existing Bolt for less than $400. I have no idea if it will be anytime soon, but past history indicates that at some point TiVo will likely offer lower price all in/lifetime as a retention offer.

That said if you can buy all in/lifetime for $400 now you know three things: 
You will be ahead of buying annual at $150 the third time you would have had to pay the $150
You also know you will loose the continuous care being provided with annual service which provides for a replacement Bolt for $50 for as long as you continue to pay for service annually.
And a functioning Bolt with lifetime is going to be worth more than one without lifetime if you decide to sell it. 
Let us know what you decide.


----------



## markjrenna

Thank you. I will have to think about it and decide what might be best.



atmuscarella said:


> Only you can answer your exact question, however if you are actually asking if we believe there will be a better deal than $400 for lifetime on existing Bolts, then my answer is yes. I believe that someday TiVo will offer all in/lifetime for an existing Bolt for less than $400. I have no idea if it will be anytime soon, but past history indicates that at some point TiVo will likely offer lower price all in/lifetime as a retention offer.
> 
> That said if you can buy all in/lifetime for $400 now you know three things:
> You will be ahead of buying annual at $150 the third time you would have had to pay the $150
> You also know you will loose the continuous care being provided with annual service which provides for a replacement Bolt for $50 for as long as you continue to pay for service annually.
> And a functioning Bolt with lifetime is going to be worth more than one without lifetime if you decide to sell it.
> Let us know what you decide.


----------



## eric102

Bolt 500GB $255 and 1TB $364 at Amazon. Its been cheaper at Frys in store but don't recall Amazon being this low before.
http://www.amazon.com/TiVo-500GB-Un...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B013X8YI5I


----------



## lujan

eric102 said:


> Bolt 500GB $255 and 1TB $364 at Amazon. Its been cheaper at Frys in store but don't recall Amazon being this low before.
> http://www.amazon.com/TiVo-500GB-Un...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B013X8YI5I


Now just let us know when there is a sale on lifetime pricing for service.


----------



## RUBiK

lujan said:


> Now just let us know when there is a sale on lifetime pricing for service.


Apparently people on SD have had luck activating and calling in and asking for the $399 all-in special but that's about it as far as I can tell...


----------



## foghorn2

They should just give everyone who calls "all in" for $99

Stick it to Rovi


----------



## tvmaster2

$229, Frys wth promo code for those who've signed up, Today (sat) only:

http://images.frys.com/art/email/032616_sat545fgh/sat_web.html?promocode=1848348


----------



## mark1958

tvmaster2 said:


> $229, Frys wth promo code for those who've signed up, Today (sat) only:
> 
> http://images.frys.com/art/email/032616_sat545fgh/sat_web.html?promocode=1848348


It's in store only that's a deal breaker, wish they would do the on line deal.
But I did find Amazon have them for 225.99 with free shipping and no tax

http://www.amazon.com/TiVo-500GB-Un...o bolt&qid=1459011964&ref_=sr_1_1&s=tv&sr=1-1


----------



## waynomo

tvmaster2 said:


> $229, Frys wth promo code for those who've signed up, Today (sat) only:
> 
> http://images.frys.com/art/email/032616_sat545fgh/sat_web.html?promocode=1848348


That's tempting.


----------



## jth tv

mark1958 said:


> But I did find Amazon have them for 225.99 with free shipping and no tax


Did you check out the sellers ratings - 33% ?


----------



## mark1958

jth tv said:


> Did you check out the sellers ratings - 33% ?


I missed that, but Amazon does have them for 249.99 with Prime it's not as good as Fry's but we have no Fry's in Michigan


----------



## TonyD79

jth tv said:


> Did you check out the sellers ratings - 33% ?


Three ratings. One good, two bad.


----------



## aaronwt

jth tv said:


> Did you check out the sellers ratings - 33% ?


Amazon does a pretty good job protecting you from bogus sellers. My only issue with them might be a refund/replacement taking a few weeks instead of instantly like with Amazon as the seller.


----------



## aaronwt

Man I just got bit by these eBay scam Bolts again. multiple times, TiVo assured me that even though the Bolts were still on my account that they were dead. And that I wouldn't try to be charged for another year. Lo and behold, this week the first Ebay Scam Bolt shows that I have a balance due. With the second one at the end of the first year today.

Luckily when I contacted TiVo this morning, I finally got a CSR that was able to really help. Last year they told me there was no way to remove these dead Bolts from my account. But the rep I talked to four hours ago said they would be able to do it. And now, for the first time in a year, these unusable Bolts are now off my account list of TiVos. 

So I'm glad to finally be rid of these showing up on my account. Since it pushed me past the limit of TiVos that starts to cause issues. So I had to move a few TiVos to a secondary account so things would work properly with transfers. Now I should be able to move those back to my primary account.


----------



## wthomas69

waynomo said:


> That's tempting.


 I purchased the 500 GB model TiVo bolt directly from TiVo about a month ago for $125, refurbished, no issues so far, comes with new warranty,


----------



## chicagobrownblue

wthomas69 said:


> I purchased the *500 GB *model TiVo bolt directly from TiVo about a month ago for $125, refurbished, no issues so far, comes with new warranty,


You should consider upgrading the drive to 2 or 3 TB. I upgraded my Roamio basic to 3TB and it has changed how much I record. I'm at 24% used with 58 episodes of NCIS recorded. I no longer feel the pressure to watch episodes ASAP because I have so much excess capacity.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Thanksgiving deals are live.

TiVo Best DVR Thanksgiving Sale 2016 Limited Time Offer.

Renewed 500GB Bolt ($100) is $450 All-in.
Renewed 1TB Bolt ($150) is $500 All-in.
*Renewed 500GB Roamio OTA is $200 All-in.*

Bolt+ is still the full retail.


----------



## steinbch

Decisions, decisions. Got a great deal on an open box Bolt+ for $300 this week (replaced with brand new one after tuner was dead). Now the Bolt all in is $500. Don't need the extra space, but not sure if I'll miss the extra 2 tuners. Argh!


----------



## lujan

What about just the service plan alone? Can you get it for $349.00?


----------



## steinbch

Called in to ask about just service. Must buy directly from TiVo. Also, no current plans for a Bolt+.


----------



## junknspam3

Just took advantage of one of the great offers. Got a new Bolt (500 GB) with All In for $509 (plus tax).
It was hard for me to wait for a good deal like this but glad I waited. Now I can get rid of my Roamio OTA
that I have to pay a monthly sub for. I don't like monthly charges.


----------



## aaronwt

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Thanksgiving deals are live.
> 
> TiVo Best DVR Thanksgiving Sale 2016 Limited Time Offer.
> 
> Renewed 500GB Bolt ($100) is $450 All-in.
> Renewed 1TB Bolt ($150) is $500 All-in.
> *Renewed 500GB Roamio OTA is $200 All-in.*
> 
> Bolt+ is still the full retail.


Crap!! I just renewed one Bolt for $130 for another year. I could have just purchased the renewed Bolt to get All In. I guess i still might do it for my other Bolt that has another month left.


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## solstice

Was hoping to upgrade my Premiere to Bolt+. No holiday incentive at all. My upgraded Roamio Plus will remain my main stay. Will upgrade to a Bolt+ when there is a need, not a desire.


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## Janette Anderson

So question. I was waiting to get a bolt plus with all in, hoping they would have it on sale (I have an old series 3 that gave up on me a few weeks ago). I'd rather have the bolt plus but it doesn't make much sense to spend twice the amount on a plus vs getting the 1tb bolt renewed with all in. Never purchased a "renewed" . . .should I be worried? Would still get the plus if the all in was $349 but looks like they are only reducing the all in on the renewed (or new 500gb). Thanks for any help!


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## krkaufman

aaronwt said:


> Crap!! I just renewed one Bolt for $130 for another year. I could have just purchased the renewed Bolt to get All In. I guess i still might do it for my other Bolt that has another month left.


Do the yearly renewals have a similar 30-day money back guarantee, or does that only apply to the first 30 days of service for a TiVo device? (Couldn't hurt to call to find out if you could back out of that service renewal.)


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## krkaufman

Janette Anderson said:


> Never purchased a "renewed" . . .should I be worried?


No.



Janette Anderson said:


> Would still get the plus if the all in was $349 but looks like they are only reducing the all in on the renewed (or new 500gb).


Correct. No discount on the relatively new BOLT+ model, itself, or associated service plans for the BOLT+.


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## BigJimOutlaw

Renewed Tivos are still solid boxes. I'd have no hesitation if I were in the market to upgrade.


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## Janette Anderson

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Renewed Tivos are still solid boxes. I'd have no hesitation if I were in the market to upgrade.


Thank you!!! The Bolt would definitely be a huge upgrade from my old series 3 =). Sounds like I should go for the deal


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## Janette Anderson

krkaufman said:


> No.
> 
> Correct. No discount on the relatively new BOLT+ model, itself, or associated service plans for the BOLT+.


Thanks!!!


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## Janette Anderson

One more question. Should I get the 2 or 3yr extended warranty? Can't find out what exactly the warranty covers. THANK!!


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## solstice

Janette Anderson said:


> One more question. Should I get the 2 or 3yr extended warranty? Can't find out what exactly the warranty covers. THANK!!


I've purchased 3 refurbished TiVo boxes directly from TiVo (2 Premiere and a Roamio Plus) over the years. One Premier developed a fan issue a little over 2 years of ownership, the others are solid with no issues. For anyone considering a purchasing a refurbished TiVo, it has been a positive experience for me.


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## Janette Anderson

solstice said:


> I've purchased 3 refurbished TiVo boxes directly from TiVo (2 Premiere and a Roamio Plus) over the years. One Premier developed a fan issue a little over 2 years of ownership, the others are solid with no issues. For anyone considering a purchasing a refurbished TiVo, it has been a positive experience for me.


Awesome thanks!!! Just ordered the 1000gb bolt with the all in and a mini! Excited!!


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## inthewoods

Pretty good deal... the 500GB Bolt, All-In, and a 3TB Toshiba Drive from macsales for ~ $600. Saves almost $450 over the price of a Bolt+ (4 tuners vs 6 is OK since I may want OTA ability in the future.)


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## tvmaster2

did anyone buy a $200 All In OTA Roamio? Is that for real? Sounds like a great deal for urbanites


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## osu1991

Bought a Roamio OTA for my sister this morning when I saw the deal. It will replace the Bolt she has now when it's 1 year of service is up. Started to get another for myself as spare in case something happens to mine. I already have 3 Roamio Basics and an OTA all with lifetime.


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## lujan

Me too, just bought the Roamio deal. Not sure if they'll ever have a good price on the all-in service for the Bolt. Only had Premieres and a Bolt OTA up to this point. Will be the first Roamio for me but comes with All-in so looking forward to it. Paid $450 for lifetime on Premiere so much less this time around.


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## aaronwt

tvmaster2 said:


> did anyone buy a $200 All In OTA Roamio? Is that for real? Sounds like a great deal for urbanites


I'm thinking about ordering one today for my GF. I got a Roamio Basic refurb last year for $300 for her. And she only uses OTA. For only $200 it's an even better deal. And since her second S3 box might crap out on her(the first one died earlier this year) any time, now would be the time to get the Roamio OTA while it is so cheap.

Although I still have an old lifetime premiere I could give her, but I really need to sell that sometime since I don't want to mess around with the old boxes any more.

EDIT: I just placed the order for the Roamio OTA. $211.99 after taxes. Then i can just throw in the 3TB drive that came from my Roamio Pro and i can give it to my GF for Christmas.

Since I got this I guess I won't be getting the renewed Bolt with All in for myself. I'll just continue paying the yearly subscription for my Bolts.


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## OnTheEdge

I was thinking of picking up a 1 TB refurbished Bolt, but they are out of stock. The 500 GB refurbished Bolt is still available. I'm not a techie. How hard would it be to update the hard drive later if I choose to go with the 500 GB refurbished Bolt? 

Also, how does 500 GB storage in a Bolt compare to 500 GB storage in the Premiere XL?


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## aaronwt

OnTheEdge said:


> I was thinking of picking up a 1 TB refurbished Bolt, but they are out of stock. The 500 GB refurbished Bolt is still available. I'm not a techie. How hard would it be to update the hard drive later if I choose to go with the 500 GB refurbished Bolt?
> 
> Also, how does 500 GB storage in a Bolt compare to 500 GB storage in the Premiere XL?


It's very easy. the hardest part is getting the case off(and possibly back on). It takes more force to remove the cover than one would think. After doing it several times though I have no issue with it any more.

Get the 500Gb refurb. Run it for awhile to make sure there are no issues, Then get a 2TB or 3TB 2.5" drive to put in the Bolt Refurb. It's a better deal than getting the 1TB version.


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## Sparky1234

How hard would it be to paint the white
Bolt black? All other electronics are black.


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## thyname

aaronwt said:


> I'm thinking about ordering one today for my GF. I got a Roamio Basic refurb last year for $300 for her. And she only uses OTA. For only $200 it's an even better deal. And since her second S3 box might crap out on her(the first one died earlier this year) any time, now would be the time to get the Roamio OTA while it is so cheap.
> 
> Although I still have an old lifetime premiere I could give her, but I really need to sell that sometime since I don't want to mess around with the old boxes any more.
> 
> EDIT: I just placed the order for the Roamio OTA. $211.99 after taxes. Then i can just throw in the 3TB drive that came from my Roamio Pro and i can give it to my GF for Christmas.
> 
> Since I got this I guess I won't be getting the renewed Bolt with All in for myself. I'll just continue paying the yearly subscription for my Bolts.


Here you go! You took care of Christmas for her! Job done! (and well I must say)


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## rainbow

trying to decide if i should go for this deal. i have loved my series 3's. i have also had a premiere for several yrs and just upgraded that hd to a 6t. then picked up a used premiere xl about 6 months ago and put in a 4t hd . then a few months ago i got a samsung 4k uhd tv and have the premiere xl hooked up to that. so i really don't need another tivo. i don't do any streaming. i do like the idea of 4 tuners. 
so just trying to figure out it this is a deal i should jump on or not. i thought tivo was not offering lifetime (or all in) with the bolts (or any longer for that matter). if this is an assumed one-off to be able to get one with lifetime it might be worth pulling the trigger.


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## aaronwt

rainbow said:


> trying to decide if i should go for this deal. i have loved my series 3's. i have also had a premiere for several yrs and just upgraded that hd to a 6t. then picked up a used premiere xl about 6 months ago and put in a 4t hd . then a few months ago i got a samsung 4k uhd tv and have the premiere xl hooked up to that.  so i really don't need another tivo. i don't do any streaming. i do like the idea of 4 tuners.
> so just trying to figure out it this is a deal i should jump on or not. i thought tivo was not offering lifetime (or all in) with the bolts (or any longer for that matter). if this is an assumed one-off to be able to get one with lifetime it might be worth pulling the trigger.


Lifetime All In never went away. They just didn't offer a discount for it any more. And the price also increased. The normal price for All In is $550. Plus the price of the hardware.


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## krkaufman

rainbow said:


> i don't do any streaming. i do like the idea of 4 tuners. ... had a premiere for several yrs and just upgraded that hd to a 6t. then picked up a used premiere xl about 6 months ago and put in a 4t hd


Given the above, a BOLT may be overkill for you; it sounds like the $200 Roamio OTA w/ All-in sale item might be something for you to consider -- in combination with the CableCARD mod to allow the OTA to be used with cable TV, if needed (you didn't say if you're doing OTA or cable). You get the 4-tuner bump, the ability to transplant your 4 or 6 TB drive to the new DVR (losing the stored content in the process unless otherwise saved), and other improvements associated with upgrading to a Roamio.

You can buy & setup the new OTA to ensure it functions, then take some time to find a "for parts" or otherwise cheap base Roamio or BOLT from which you could scavenge the needed CableCARD bracket. (As just one example, here's a base Roamio that could be had immediately for $48 on eBay; so you could have a Lifetime/All-in 4-tuner Roamio for about $250 -- with the caveat that TiVo could theoretically do something in the future, however unlikely, to block the CableCARD capability for OTA models.)


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## krkaufman

Interesting post from the Reddit TiVo forum...

-------
$200 refund if you purchased all-in/lifetime in the past month

_I purchased a TiVo bolt 500 GB from Amazon 3 weeks ago. I also ordered lifetime service from TiVo. Today, I call TiVo asking about the lifetime deal that TiVo.com is offering. The customer service representative offer to refund the difference ($200).

If you recently purchased all-in/lifetime you may want to request the same.
-------_​


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## foghorn2

Sparky1234 said:


> How hard would it be to paint the white
> Bolt black? All other electronics are black.


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## netjack

anyone know if instead of getting mini's for $150, you get a 2nd bolt for $99, you can have 8 tuners? I'm assuming you'll need 2 cable cards? And if you don't get a cable card, does the bolt just act like a mini?


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## lujan

I think I'm seeing double?


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## krkaufman

netjack said:


> anyone know if instead of getting mini's for $150, you get a 2nd bolt for $99, you can have 8 tuners? I'm assuming you'll need 2 cable cards? And if you don't get a cable card, does the bolt just act like a mini?


I've seen at least one other similar thread on the subject, recently. Hopefully this one can shed some light.

'gist: No, it would NOT act just like a Mini. Also, it would require a TiVo service subscription or All-In service to be able to do anything, so the cost difference between that $99 BOLT and a Mini rapidly vanishes.


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## thyname

netjack said:


> anyone know if instead of getting mini's for $150, you get a 2nd bolt for $99, you can have 8 tuners? I'm assuming you'll need 2 cable cards? And if you don't get a cable card, does the bolt just act like a mini?


Absolutely not. That's not a good idea. Second Bolt will NOT act as Mini for live tv. Also you will have to pay for CableCard and TiVo subscription for the second Bolt. Without subscription, a TiVo DVR has no guide - pretty much useless.


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## cogx

Does the Live Chat not actually work or is it that they are just too busy today on Black Friday '16?


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## Sparky1234

*TiVo BOLT+* on Sale yet?


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## aaronwt

not yet


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## Sparky1234

Anyone know when TiVo offers its 2017 product line???

Bolt and Bolt+ 2-1/2" hard drive is a show stopper for me!!! And I'm not willing to invest in the older technology Roamio.


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## atmuscarella

Sparky1234 said:


> Anyone know when TiVo offers its 2017 product line???
> 
> Bolt and Bolt+ 2-1/2" hard drive is a show stopper for me!!! And I'm not willing to invest in the older technology Roamio.


TiVo doesn't refresh it's products annual or refer to them an 2016 or 2017 models. The info we have from the question and answer sessions with TiVo reps earlier this year and last year, it appears TiVo considers a 3 year product cycle as normal. So my guess is the Bolts will be the "current" DVRs for several more years. Also unless they have major problems with the 2.5 inch drives even when they do release a new DVR it will likely have a 2.5 inch drive.

There is a new OTA product that is expected next year - which isn't a stand alone DVR - but instead a Network attached device that you access with other devices. But we don't even know if they intend on including a hard drive with it at all (if they do it will be 2.5 inch drive given the size of the device).


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## thyname

atmuscarella said:


> TiVo doesn't refresh it's products annual or refer to them an 2016 or 2017 models. The info we have from the question and answer sessions with TiVo reps earlier this year and last year, it appears TiVo considers a 3 year product cycle as normal. So my guess is the Bolts will be the "current" DVRs for several more years. Also unless they have major problems with the 2.5 inch drives even when they do release a new DVR it will likely have a 2.5 inch drive.
> 
> There is a new OTA product that is expected next year - which isn't a stand alone DVR - but instead a Network attached device that you access with other devices. But we don't even know if they intend on including a hard drive with it at all (if they do it will be 2.5 inch drive given the size of the device).


100% correct with one (small) addition: According to Ira's Q&As a couple of months ago, a new Mini (possibly 4K capable) is expected by summer 2017.


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## Sparky1234

Decided to wait for a flat, black, 6 tuner, 3.5" HD TiVo update. Hopeful for 2018...


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## krkaufman

Sparky1234 said:


> Decided to wait for a flat, black, 6 tuner, 3.5" HD TiVo update. Hopeful for 2018...


I'd suggest a look at the Roamio Pro, on sale for Cyber Monday only...

TiVo Cyber Monday Sale 2016 Huge Savings Only For One Day.

*$500 for Roamio Pro w/ All-in Service*
* 6 CableCARD tuners (no OTA capability)
* 3TB storage
* Gigabit Ethernet & MoCA 1.1 bridge
* 4 in-home/2 out-of-home mobile streams
* etc


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## aaronwt

Sparky1234 said:


> Decided to wait for a flat, black, 6 tuner, 3.5" HD TiVo update. Hopeful for 2018...


I would be surprised if they go back to using 3.5 inch drives. They woukd need to make the enclosure much larger to go back to that size. And the trend for everything is to get smaller, not larger.


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## solstice

krkaufman said:


> I'd suggest a look at the Roamio Pro, on sale for Cyber Monday only...
> 
> TiVo Cyber Monday Sale 2016 Huge Savings Only For One Day.
> 
> *$500 for Roamio Pro w/ All-in Service*
> * 6 CableCARD tuners (no OTA capability)
> * 3TB storage
> * Gigabit Ethernet & MoCA 1.1 bridge
> * 4 in-home/2 out-of-home mobile streams
> * etc


Thanks for the heads-up. Just ordered one!


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## aaronwt

krkaufman said:


> I'd suggest a look at the Roamio Pro, on sale for Cyber Monday only...
> 
> TiVo Cyber Monday Sale 2016 Huge Savings Only For One Day.
> 
> *$500 for Roamio Pro w/ All-in Service*
> * 6 CableCARD tuners (no OTA capability)
> * 3TB storage
> * Gigabit Ethernet & MoCA 1.1 bridge
> * 4 in-home/2 out-of-home mobile streams
> * etc


I guess i knew this was coming. I should have sold off my 5TB, All In, Roamio Pro last year. Now the price I can get for it will be much lower.


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