# American Guns - Discovery Channel



## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

I'm a little bit of a gun collector, this show was great. I do not like the manufactured drama. I know, all of these reality shows have to have their drama. "If you don't have this cylinder manufactured in two hours, we're going to lose the business." blah blah blah

Without any drama, this is still a fantastic glimpse into gunsmithing and collectables.


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## Tivortex (Feb 29, 2004)

Rich Wyatts business is located in my area. He has a very, shady reputation in the local community. (Just google him and see) He's way over the top puffing up his supposed skills.

I really don't care for how he seems to be pimping his wife and 16 year old daughter's boobs to drum up business and ratings. But maybe they always wear those skimpy tank tops wherever they go. 

I've been a shooter for 40 years and never once shot something that exploded. But I guess it makes good TV. To me it's just embarrassing. Just awful.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

Huh. Discovery having two shows about the same thing?

(We have "Sons of Guns", but it appears to be a different show with different characters and a different business. It's also about gunsmithing...). Guess they need some contrast, though it seems very un-Discovery to have two nearly-identical shows.


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## jeepair (Apr 22, 2004)

Nobody would sell a BAR for just 10k and 10 ounces of silver worth 300-400 dollars. A BAR Should sell for 17-20k easily. 10k is a joke. If it was a C&R then it is even higher, around 25-28k. 

I think they also made it look/appear that he took it back to his shop but you can't do that with Title II / NFA weapons. Takes 1-4 months for the transfer depending on how quick ATF works.

The engraving the son did looked good. He's definately got a talent there.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

I wonder how much of this show is staged. For instance, the son messing up the engraving just looked so planned. Glad the daughter had a very minor role in this one. The guns are great. I have always wanted a pistol just like the one they made, modern but looks like it was in the old west. One thing I would like is a little more info, they take this big block of steel and cut the parts out of it. How was the original gun made back in 1863, same, different? How does Colt make similar guns now? Just curious, does Colt start with a block of steel or do they have some other process? And one more thing, get rid of the explosions.


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## jeepair (Apr 22, 2004)

I was thinking the same, how did they make them back in 1873? No such thing as a milling machine back then and I don't believe they were cast. 

10k for that and 15k for the other already made one? Unless its original I can pickup a replica for probably under 2k. I paid around 500-600 for my Vaquero 45LC. Ruger's site says "Since its introduction in 1993, the Ruger® Vaquero® has dominated the cowboy action shooting world and earned its reputation for rugged reliability due to its strength and mechanical superiority."

I'm guessing 100% staged.

Explosions are cool, but they went way overboard with those. Just a 1/2 or 1 pound tannerite would be sufficient as long as they are at least 100 yards away.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

When the Son messed up on the engraving, I knew that shot was staged, but I guess it is possible that they re-inacted the screw up for the camera. 

Seemed really fake though.


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## jeff92k7 (Jan 18, 2006)

Between the two gun shows on Discovery, Sons of Guns is the only one I still have a SP to record. As has been said already, there's too much about this one that feels staged. It comes off to me as an hour long commercial for his shop.

This guy is all about making himself and his shop look better to make more money. Will, on Sons of Guns, seems more like he tolerates the cameras and that the show is secondary to actually running the business. Plus, Will doesn't pimp out his daughter. That 16 year old needs to put more clothes on...it's just totally inappropriate.

Jeff


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

They barely tolerate the cameras on Sons of Guns. Heck, Sons of Guns has been a curse - Red Jacket apparently has too much business now and Stephanie is swamped with work.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

This weeks show was good. No daughter :up: Hand cannon :up:
Pink 1911 :up::down: It was neat to see them paint it, who would have 
thought? But pink!!!!!! 

I wonder if the dollar amounts when he makes those big deals, are bogus? Just for show. I mean think about it, from the sellers perspective, do you really want a camera crew and a national audience see you collect $50gs? 
Can anyone say, "hello mister IRS agent?"

Wife is pretty hot, would love to see her in a shower scene.


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## Tivortex (Feb 29, 2004)

DouglasPHill said:


> "
> 
> Wife is pretty hot


If you're into silicon. :down: Nagging/whining is never attractive.


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## NetJunkie (Feb 19, 2003)

Worf said:


> They barely tolerate the cameras on Sons of Guns. Heck, Sons of Guns has been a curse - Red Jacket apparently has too much business now and Stephanie is swamped with work.


Red Jacket has never been an efficient business. They've been around a while and are well known to people that like AKs. They make decent guns (not the best..but far from the worst) but can be very slow at times. Not surprising a show like this would saturate them.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I just started watching this show AND Sons of Guns. I enjoy both but tend to like SOGs better.

But why did you all have to spoil it by telling me that daughter is only 16?!? Now I feel dirty! LOL


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

Looks like Discovery Canada is going to carry it - they have this program where you can vote on shows and American Guns is being introduced.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

jeff92k7 said:


> As has been said already, there's too much about this one that feels staged. It comes off to me as an hour long commercial for his shop.


Completely, but some of the things they do show are cool.

I still watch it, there isn't much in the way of gun shows on mainstream tv.

I'd really like to see a show showing normal purchasers looking for their first gun, getting training etc...


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

For me, American Guns has slowly pulled ahead of Sons of Guns. I enjoy both shows, but Rich is a more personable person than Will. Will comes off as a dick to me.

Plus I love the way Rich bargains with folks for their guns. He not only brings you the cash (in his own helo), but he takes the time to learn something about the seller, and brings along an item to throw in to sweeten the pot.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Donbadabon said:


> ...Plus I love the way Rich bargains with folks for their guns. He not only brings you the cash (in his own helo), but he takes the time to learn something about the seller, and brings along an item to throw in to sweeten the pot.


I agree...but even that seems staged. He just happens to have a $3k hunting knife in his bag?

I did like when he pulled off his Rolex the one time.


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## Hansky (Nov 17, 2005)

Donbadabon said:


> For me, American Guns has slowly pulled ahead of Sons of Guns. I enjoy both shows, but Rich is a more personable person than Will. Will comes off as a dick to me.
> 
> Plus I love the way Rich bargains with folks for their guns. He not only brings you the cash (in his own helo), but he takes the time to learn something about the seller, and brings along an item to throw in to sweeten the pot.


I have not seen a scene in the show that did not looked staged, down to the wife and daughter's clothing.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Did anybody see the ep of AG where they put 2 Walthers under the frame of a "James Bond" car?

Certainly that can't be legal, right? At the very least I'd think you would need a CCW license or something. 

Them customizong that hunting rifle to the disabled vet was pretty dang cool though!


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

As long as the Walthers aren't loaded, should be legal.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Just saw this on TMZ regarding SOGs:

http://www.tmz.com/2011/12/23/sons-of-guns-atf-william-hayden-firearms/


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

pmyers said:


> Just saw this on TMZ regarding SOGs:
> 
> http://www.tmz.com/2011/12/23/sons-of-guns-atf-william-hayden-firearms/


That's interesting.


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## Tivortex (Feb 29, 2004)

I can't even begin to say how bad I think both of these show make regular gun owners look. I don't see how anyone who knows much about firearms can stand watching them because they are so full of inaccurate and unsafe information.


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## RandomTask (Jun 30, 2011)

I happened on this yesterday. Since when does cleaning a gun become a giant deal? They had a whole segment in the daughter learning to do a "DCOA" (disassemble , clean, oil and assemble ) on a 45 auto. Seriously, if you carry, you should already know how to do that. I'm also not cool with the the owner hanging his daughters boobs out as part of tv show. We have a name for those kinds of girls.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

That DCOA did look amazingly tough and seemed to be a ton of tiny little parts. I'm not a gun person but when I've seen other guns stripped down, there did seem to be a LOT less parts than that 1911.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

She's only 16, maybe she's never really actually had a real interest in the guns, but now that the cameras are around she's more interested.


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## Gary McCoy (Jun 4, 2003)

Although I love the weapon, the 1911 is a century old auto pistol design just this year. It was absolutely the best large bore auto pistol design for much of that century. But it does indeed have more little parts than more modern designs, and a lower reliability than something such as a Glock because of it. However, a century of accumulated gunsmithing experience tweeking and tuning the 1911 means that it is still a good choice today for anything you need a gun to do. If you add a lot of aftermarket parts to a Glock for example, you can seriously compromise the reliability of the factory weapon - I have even seen aftermarket polymer frames shatter during usage. When the Glock is a century old, we will know a lot more about tweeking the newer design correctly.

As for the daughter on _American Guns_, I have observed that both her and her mother dress in revealing clothes and wear lots of makeup. Which means she IS being parented. Nor is such revealing clothing unusual or indicative of low moral standards in Colorado or actually in any of several Western US states - it's in fact pretty common in such areas, especially in the Summer. But people from more conservative parts of the US such as New England and the American South should not make assumptions about morality based upon standards of dress in areas other than their own. Just because revealing dress has a certain connotation where you live does not mean that it does everywhere.


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## Hansky (Nov 17, 2005)

Gary McCoy said:


> As for the daughter on _American Guns_, I have observed that both her and her mother dress in revealing clothes and wear lots of makeup. Which means she IS being parented. Nor is such revealing clothing unusual or indicative of low moral standards in Colorado or actually in any of several Western US states - it's in fact pretty common in such areas, especially in the Summer. But people from more conservative parts of the US such as New England and the American South should not make assumptions about morality based upon standards of dress in areas other than their own. Just because revealing dress has a certain connotation where you live does not mean that it does everywhere.


The only assumption that needs to be made is that the mother and daughter (which I believe is a step-daughter) are being provocatively dressed for the show.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

pmyers said:


> That DCOA did look amazingly tough and seemed to be a ton of tiny little parts. I'm not a gun person but when I've seen other guns stripped down, there did seem to be a LOT less parts than that 1911.


Well there is field stripping and detail stripping. Field stripping is separating the frame from the slide and removing the barrel and spring, basically it's in 4 parts at that point. Then you clean it, oil it, reassemble and it's ready to go for next time.

Detail stripping is breaking it completely down so everything; hammer, trigger, locking block, sear, trigger bar, etc..., are in pieces. You only do that once in a while, to inspect and re-lube all the inner parts.

You're looking at ~40-50 total parts in a 1911 or hammer fired pistol to ~25-30 in a striker fired like a Glock or M&P.


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## Gary McCoy (Jun 4, 2003)

Hansky said:


> The only assumption that needs to be made is that the mother and daughter (which I believe is a step-daughter) are being provocatively dressed for the show.


Nope. The mother/daughter share the general dress of the females you see in the store or town. Blue jeans and tight tops and cowboy hats ARE the female standard of dress for the area. I don't know about the step daughter part, I just know that Renee and Paige look a great deal alike - same figure, bust, and hair color.


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## Hansky (Nov 17, 2005)

Gary McCoy said:


> Nope. The mother/daughter share the general dress of the females you see in the store or town. Blue jeans and tight tops and cowboy hats ARE the female standard of dress for the area. I don't know about the step daughter part, I just know that Renee and Paige look a great deal alike - same figure, bust, and hair color.


Yes, you go with that theory that the attire (and camera angles, etc.) are not part of the planning for a reality show.


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## Tivortex (Feb 29, 2004)

Gary McCoy said:


> Nope. The mother/daughter share the general dress of the females you see in the store or town. Blue jeans and tight tops and cowboy hats ARE the female standard of dress for the area.


Disagree. They are on TV. They dressed for it. Specifically. It's a ratings ploy. I doubt either one could squeeze any more mammary out of their blouses and still be a family show.

Watching that girl walk through the tall grass you can tell she' never been off the sidewalk.

And WTH is with the purse poodle? Really? Paris Hilton wannabe or something.

The negative stories about Rich Wyatt are legion in this part of the world. If you do business with him, count your change. Better use both hands. He's a creep.

Don't even get me started on the 10 mile long helicopter rides. You couldn't drive there? It's farther to the airport than to your customers house. Manufactured drama and not very good drama at that.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Well I love it! lol

I would think showing up at a VIP's house in a helo would make more of a statement than a truck regardless of how close it is.


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## Hansky (Nov 17, 2005)

pmyers said:


> Well I love it! lol
> 
> I would think showing up at a VIP's house in a helo would make more of a statement than a truck regardless of how close it is.


It makes for good TV, but I would assume the helicopter, "VIP," guns, money, etc., are all props for the show.


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## Gary McCoy (Jun 4, 2003)

Well I don't know Rich Wyatt, but I have to point out something to you, and it's the same basic fact that gives used car salesmen bad reputations.

Guns are a commodity with constantly changing market values. If you are going to make a living reselling guns, then your basic business consists of buying below market value and selling at or slightly above market value. The profit so generated is your business revenues.

I can tell that is in fact how Wyatt does business. He even says so on the show. He is successfull enough to have a thriving business with many employees, plus a private helicopter. That means that there are LOTS and LOTS of people selling guns to Wyatt at below market value, and then bad mouthing him. But if he paid fair market value for every purchase, he'd go out of business real quick, because nobody would buy guns at the markup he'd have to charge.

I don't think the normal business practices of a free market indicate anything in particular about either party in any deal. The people selling guns to Wyatt are free to find a better offer, and they either cannot or will not bother to do so.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

The show is great. I figure everything is staged. But seeing cool guns, learning a little history, and watching stuff blow up; I'm in.


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## Hansky (Nov 17, 2005)

Gary McCoy said:


> He is successfull enough to have a thriving business with many employees, plus a private helicopter. That means that there are LOTS and LOTS of people selling guns to Wyatt at below market value, and then bad mouthing him.


Do you believe everything you see on "reality" shows?


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

DouglasPHill said:


> The show is great. I figure everything is staged. But seeing cool guns, learning a little history, and watching stuff blow up; I'm in.


+1 :up:


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## Gary McCoy (Jun 4, 2003)

Hansky said:


> Do you believe everything you see on "reality" shows?


Nope. But I have seen the man on camera sitting in the pilot seat, I believe it's his helicopter. I think the deals he does on camera are scripted, but they document the actual terms of the actual deal which finished just minutes before filming, although the number of bids/counters may have been changed. I believe a bonus of some type is paid to each customer that allows filming by the show producers to sweeten the deal.

I think Rich Wyatt gets a piece of the show revenue in addition to getting lots and lots of publicity from the show to stimulate his business. In that sense, he's a better businessman than his anonymous competition. If there was any doubt he was the best gunsmithing and gun dealing business around, then such doubt has been convincingly eliminated by the show.


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## Hansky (Nov 17, 2005)

Gary McCoy said:


> Nope. But I have seen the man on camera sitting in the pilot seat, I believe it's his helicopter.


There you have it!



> If there was any doubt he was the best gunsmithing and gun dealing business around, then such doubt has been convincingly eliminated by the show.


No, THERE you have it!

I have no doubt you believe it.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Gary McCoy said:


> Nope. But I have seen the man on camera sitting in the pilot seat, I believe it's his helicopter.


He usually rides in the left seat. Unlike planes, helicopter pilots typically fly in the right seat.


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## RandomTask (Jun 30, 2011)

Gary McCoy said:


> Well I don't know Rich Wyatt, but I have to point out something to you, and it's the same basic fact that gives used car salesmen bad reputations.
> 
> Guns are a commodity with constantly changing market values. If you are going to make a living reselling guns, then your basic business consists of buying below market value and selling at or slightly above market value. The profit so generated is your business revenues.
> 
> ...


In the episode I watched he traded a rifle worth $3500 for a sword and a bowie knife he knew nothing about. That's idiotic.


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## Gary McCoy (Jun 4, 2003)

RandomTask said:


> In the episode I watched he traded a rifle worth $3500 for a sword and a bowie knife he knew nothing about. That's idiotic.


The Bowie Knife turned out to be worth $5500 and the sabre $600, so he made out like a bandit...


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## Tivortex (Feb 29, 2004)

Bandit. Very good anology.



Gary McCoy said:


> I can tell that is in fact how Wyatt does business. That means that there are LOTS and LOTS of people selling guns to Wyatt at below market value, and then bad mouthing him.


You assume way too much.

Most of the complaints have to do with guns taken in for repair or upgrade that are 1) not actually repaired, 2) take months longer than promised, 3) have a huge ugly Gunsmoke logo engraved on them without the owners permission.

Mr Wyatt once donated a pair of black powder pistols, with custom action jobs, to a local shooters organization. Oh Gunsmoke took a lot of credit for the big donation they made. My friend won the guns and so began the 2 year saga to actually get the guns. Wyatt offered every excuse in the book. So many lies were told it staggered the imagination. Only after the threat of getting law enforcement involved did the guns magically appear.

I won't even get into the fact that he is a convicted criminal and did time for contempt of court. Look it up, it's quite public.
No one should admire this -----nozzle.


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## Hansky (Nov 17, 2005)

Gary McCoy said:


> The Bowie Knife turned out to be worth $5500 and the sabre $600, so he made out like a bandit...


Because, as we all know, if it happens that way on a reality show it must be the gospel truth. You really fall for this, especially with the way you through around the word "fact" and other absolutes.


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## RandomTask (Jun 30, 2011)

Gary McCoy said:


> The Bowie Knife turned out to be worth $5500 and the sabre $600, so he made out like a bandit...


Right. Cause he knew he was buying a reverse, left handed bowie knife. Assuming that even exists.... Please. This guy pimps out his daughter for a show. He's just a poorer version of the Kardashians....


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I saw this is getting ready to start up again.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

pmyers said:


> I saw this is getting ready to start up again.


:up: +1


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Pretty good first episode. That 1911 was pretty awesome!


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

I really like Sons of Guns, but I can't seem to like this one. Main character is way too obvious with the self promotion. It's just too in my face. Plus he seems like a bit of a skeeve. In other words, I have an inherent mistrust of the guy. He seems to be doing the show for one reason only. To promote himself.


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## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

bareyb said:


> I really like Sons of Guns, but I can't seem to like this one. Main character is way too obvious with the self promotion. It's just too in my face. Plus he seems like a bit of a skeeve. In other words, I have an inherent mistrust of the guy. He seems to be doing the show for one reason only. To promote himself.


I enjoy both. I completely get not liking Rich. But how can you like the guy on Sons of Guns? He seems like the biggest jerk in the world IMO.


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## snowjay (Mar 27, 2007)

Rich is a big self promoter, no two ways about it. He as some haters and might have a sketchy past but he's obviously successful so more power to him. I'm not really a fan of all the over the top money scenes and ridiculous transactions but I do enjoy learning and seeing some of the guns he sells, makes or that walk into his shop. I'd love a show that is less drama and more actual gunsmithing but shows like that may not sell. That custom 1911 was really nice. The punt gun was a bit ridiculous in size (I thought the retro paint was cool) but I wouldn't mind shooting one.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Frylock said:


> I enjoy both. I completely get not liking Rich. But how can you like the guy on Sons of Guns? He seems like the biggest jerk in the world IMO.


I don't mind people being "jerks" on TV per se. I just can't shake the feeling that I'm watching a commercial.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

It was wierd seeing a zombie episode on Sons of Guns and then seeing a zombie episode on American Guns the very next week.


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## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

I agree that both gun shows could have less "drama" and more gunsmithing, and I would enjoy it more. But then it would also lose a lot of viewers most likely.

I wonder how long before Discovery tries to get a build-off between the two shows. I'd love to see that!


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## ngsmith (Jan 18, 2002)

Cancelled.

http://www.deadline.com/2012/12/discovery-series-american-guns-cancelled/


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

but but but...I wanted to see if the boy actually goes to Italy for engraving!!! lol


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## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

sgsmith said:


> Cancelled.
> 
> http://www.deadline.com/2012/12/discovery-series-american-guns-cancelled/


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

Maybe another channel will pick it up.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Dang, that sucks. I really enjoyed this show.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

I'm kind of surprised actually. Seems like it has at least a few viewers... Unlike a lot of the stuff they have on that channel. Is the other Gun show still on? I wonder if they'll be next...


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Regarding the article, the thought that this had anything to do with the Sandy shooting is just stupid.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

Yeah, that article was stupid.

It contradicts itself - first Discovery said season 2 ended a while back and was never renewed and that they wont' be repeating it. Which meant it happened well before the Newtown murders.

Next, it went and detailed how its ratings for season 2 dropped by double-digits.

Well, geez, if you get such crappy ratings, Discovery won't rerun it because they can't make any money from the reruns! Reruns are shown because they can make money off them - sure it's not a lot at 3AM, but it's a little bit. With a show of bottom-of-barrel ratings, it would probably cost them more money to air a rerun than airing some other show.

The only reason I can see for mentioning it was that it was just a footnote in Discovery's show lineup that it was not renewed, and because of what happened, it suddenly got catapulted to the forefront despite being there for months. 

Even TV doesn't move fast - episodes are filmed months in advance and paid for, so cancelling a show suddenly that's paid up is a stupid waste of money unless there's something better that can fill the timeslot and recover the already paid for money. But if it's not been renewed, it means they haven't paid a cent, and decided long before any current event. Probably when the ratings started falling they gave the studio a chance to fix up (at the studio's expense) the remaining episodes to try to shore up support or be cancelled. But we're talking like 6 months ago.

Sigh. I tried to watch it a few times. i wasn't terribly interested.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

The media is doing the same thing with everything right now....any songs that mention kids or guns and any shows about kids and guns.


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