# Want To Keep Tivo, But Cut The Cord



## wecnews (Oct 19, 2009)

After holding out for several years, I think I'm finally ready to cut the cord.
I have a Bolt which can do OTA and cable, so it's no biggie to keep my Tivo (which is a must) but cancel cable subscription.

I used to keep cable for access to Disney/Nick Jr. for kids but now I find them watching shows on Netflix and Hulu more than anything else.

A new ISP is offering a great internet offer which would cut my bill dramatically.

However, I need advice on which services to subscribe to that work well with Tivo.

I have Hulu and Netflix now.... but I know there's another version of Hulu that works with Live TV, and a youtube with Live TV, and Direct TV witha bunch of cable channels included.

I haven't researched the different services at all, but wonder which if any would offer the closest to a seamless transition from cable.

I'd love to be able to still be able to set a one pass on my tivo and have tivo find the shows for me using my streaming services.

Which do you suggest?


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Amazon Prime Video lets you separately subscribe to HBO Now, CBS All Access, Britbox, Showtime and others through the TiVo interface. Not really any cost savings vs. subscribing to them via another device, but it lets you use them within the TiVo.


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

As a cord-cutter cable TV replacement, Tivo falls just a bit short of satisfaction. The Hulu app on TiVo does not support Hulu Live- there are no TiVo apps for OTT streaming services such as SLINGTV, HuluLive, PSVue, DirectTV, etc. Regional sports networks and ESPN are also not available. Furthermore, while the Bolt supports 4K streaming, it doesn't support extended color formats such as HDR or Dolby-vision. As a result, many OTA Tivo users supplement the Tivo service with an external streaming device, such as a Roku, Apple TV, or Amazon FireTV device. These devices typically support nearly all of the OTT streaming packages currently available.

That said, assuming you have a decent antenna and reasonable reception, you won't have a need for local Live TV streaming, as you'll already have those channels over the air.

As noted above, the Amazon Prime Video allows for subscriptions to HBO Now and others, keeping that access within the TiVo experience.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

wecnews said:


> After holding out for several years, I think I'm finally ready to cut the cord...I have Hulu and Netflix now.... but I know there's another version of Hulu that works with Live TV, and a youtube with Live TV, and Direct TV with a bunch of cable channels included.


I don't think you are. I think you are putting the horse before the cart. 

figure out what you want to watch (programs, movies, hd, 4k, nudity, profanity, ad-free, etc.) Put a pad of paper near each television. Ask your family members to not what they watch and what channel the program was on. Ask them to note whether they watched live or ondemand and whether they used 'trick play' during the viewing. No doubt you will discover some requirements during this exercise you did not know existed. Except for the NFL, for instance, premium providers have a near monopoly on sports.
Consider OTA. It's free and does not require internet (depending on how you do it). There are no restrictions on recording. Visit TVFool.com and run a report for your address. Look up the wikipedia page for each station you can pull in and note the 'digital channels' for each station. Check TitanTV.com to see what is on each channel/sub. Think about how hard it will be to install/maintain/connect to and antenna. Think about how many people are likely to be using the antenna at any given time (the Amazon Recast only supports two concurrent streams).
find out where and how this programming is available (OTA, OTT). Trial promising services and see how things go with your Bolt. Pick up a couple streamers and see how that goes.
pick hardware that will play the services you choose best. Set up one frequently used television with the hardware and services you think will work best for your family and use it. When everyone is happy, cut the cord.



wecnews said:


> Which do you suggest?


In general, I like OTA via Recast+Vue Core+Prime+Prime Channels.


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

Personally I don't see cord cutting as a good option for replicating cable TV. It will always fall short of the ease and convenience of just a cable box not to mention the cost can even be higher than cable. Where it really shines is in giving you really great content to stream when and where you want it without contracts, original content that you wont see on cable and usually better picture quality. Something like Youtube TV along with Netflix or Hulu will give you more content than you could watch in a lifetime. If you can get a good low cost internet service you can really save. The best part to me is the ability to pause/stop a service and try another for a while without any fees or charges. HBO for the GoT series then stop it and go with CBS Now for the new Star Trek series. The options are just fantastic.


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## Darrell Patton (Jul 19, 2018)

Philo is a lower cost service that augments the OTA channels. No sports channels, but it does include unlimited DVR capability with a 30 day storage limit. You will need a streaming device, I use a Roku. I got the $16/month package right before they stopped offering it. It's now $20/month.

wizwor is right. You need to honestly think about what you really watch, and what you need to have, vs what would be nice to have. I finally determined that more than 90% of everything that my family watched was the local broadcast stations, that I can pick up OTA. The TIVO gives me DVR capability for the OTA channels. With Philo, Netflix, & Hulu I can get everything else. The only thing I gave up was the sports channels, which for me is college football on the cable channels. I'm now saving more than $150/month and there is still more stuff to watch than I have time to watch it.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

wizwor said:


> ............. Consider OTA. It's free and does not require internet (depending on how you do it). ...........


Curious: how do you do OTA with a reasonable program guide (i.e., at least 12 days) without internet?

Although it seems like an academic question anyway, since it's hard to imagine anyone going without internet these days. Can the Recast or TiVo use a minimal cost/performance (e.g., 3 Mbps) internet service to get their guide data? I would guess so but ..... ?


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

mschnebly said:


> . ...... If you can get a good low cost internet service you can really save. .........


Curious as to your definition of "good low cost internet". The minimum service provided by Spectrum, which is a monopoly in my location, provides 100 Mbps and costs $66/month, with no caps. I rate the quality as "good" but do you consider that "low cost"?


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## El Maestro (Nov 19, 2013)

We've been cord cutters in my house for the last six months or so and are happy with it. We moved from a Roamio Pro to a Bolt OTA. We use Apple TV for all OTT services. We are regular subscribers to Netflix, Prime, Hulu Plus, and Noggin for our son. We had DirecTV now, but weren't watching many shows on it so we canceled. We will subscribe to HBO, Showtime, Starz, and CBS All Access for the shows we want to watch and then cancel when we're done.

There are a few random shows on SyFy that we will buy from iTunes; for three shows we can buy the episodes for 1 season for about the same price price as a couple of months of DTVNow.

For sports we have the MLBTV app and do a single team subscription. If we miss ESPN we could either do PSVue, Sling, or DTVNow again. ESPN+ is an option but not a total replacement for the live channel. NFL is on the OTA local channels. We don't currently have a replacement for NFL Network.

Overall, we are pleased and happy. It's reduced our outlay (just $57/month for 100 Mbps internet and whatever the cost is for above OTT services; this is down from about $190/month) and significantly reduced (or eliminated) the amount of commercials my 2-year old sees. We have a lot of content available to all of us and I love the technology in the Apple TV and Bolt. I do recommend making the move if you can get the sports you like.

All the posts here have good advice, too. The best part about the OTT services is being able to start and cancel whenever you want. Experiment and see what you like!


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## BNBTivo (Sep 7, 2015)

We went through this same process. And we came to the conclusion it made more sense to dump the Tivo units. We want TV, so we are going to subscribe to a TV service. The problem is, Tivo doesn't work with any of them. So you either get cable or OTA. Fine, you get OTA... well, TV services like Hulu Live and Youtube TV include the local channels..... So what's the point of the Tivo? Youtube TV even has an unlimited DVR. So what's the point of the Tivo? I get OTA with the other services.

Tivo is great for cord cutters if you only want Hulu/Netflix and OTA. It's a near perfect option for that and works for a lot of people. But if you are looking to add cable channels to it, the unit just isn't good for that and there are much better options. Roku is amazing, and as another poster pointed out, you can switch TV services, turn on off showtime, etc... all very easy. You get so much more control in that respect. Roku also has their own channel on the device that gives you quite a bit of live tv and content, free. Plus channels like CW, PBS, PBS Kids, etc... lots of free content.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

dlfl said:


> Curious: how do you do OTA with a reasonable program guide (i.e., at least 12 days) without internet?
> 
> Although it seems like an academic question anyway, since it's hard to imagine anyone going without internet these days. Can the Recast or TiVo use a minimal cost/performance (e.g., 3 Mbps) internet service to get their guide data? I would guess so but ..... ?


Right now, I like the TCL Roku TVs for this. Their EPG is PSIP powered which means the guide if built with data in theRF signal. Lots of other cool stuff about these televisions and they are inexpensive. Check this out...

Is the Best OTA DVR a TV?

If you can find one, the Channel Master DVR+ is an awesome untethered DVR. The inexpensive iview boxes are PSIP as well...

https://www.amazon.com/IVIEW-3200STB-Digital-Converter-Recording-Included/dp/B019DVWN60

It's not really an academic question. My 80 year old in-laws have no internet -- not even smart phones. The DVR+ works great for them. We also installed a DVR+ at my sister's camp in Ebeemee Township Maine which barely has cell service. Most people I talk to who have installed an antenna have nothing between the antenna and the television except a run of cable. The TCL Roku televisions are a great upgrade from an analog tube.

I believe that broadcasters are only required to provide PSIP twelve hours in advance of the airing of a program, but, in my experience, most provide many days of data. I do not consider 'at least 12 days' necessary or reasonable. If you do, you may want to avoid PSIP solutions.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

wizwor said:


> Right now, I like the TCL Roku TVs for this. Their EPG is PSIP powered which means the guide if built with data in theRF signal. Lots of other cool stuff about these televisions and they are inexpensive. Check this out...
> 
> Is the Best OTA DVR a TV?


Yeah, I really like how those Roku TVs handle OTA TV, especially the way you can pop in a USB stick to get free trick play on live TV. Seems like it would be trivial for Roku to also add in software support for full-on manual DVR capabilities. (This is a standard feature on TVs in Europe.) Plug in a powered USB hard drive and set up time/channel-based recordings. (I'm assuming manual set-ups would be necessary given the sad state of PSIP data in most markets.) Roku could monetize the feature by letting you pay a couple bucks per month for internet-delivered 7-day TV guide data that would allow for regular name-based DVR recordings. Or throw that in for free if you subscribe to any pay TV service (e.g. Netflix, Showtime, etc.) through your Roku account, since they get a cut of those fees.


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

dlfl said:


> Curious as to your definition of "good low cost internet". The minimum service provided by Spectrum, which is a monopoly in my location, provides 100 Mbps and costs $66/month, with no caps. I rate the quality as "good" but do you consider that "low cost"?


This is what I have with Comcast and we can stream to 3 devices with no buffering or issues at all.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

That's an introductory price, though.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Anyone who is lucky enough to have AT&T Fiber at their address can get that service sold to them via Toast.net instead of AT&T if they prefer. They offer symmetrical 60 Mbps service with no throttling, no data caps, equipment included for $45/month flat, no extra fees. (And in most states, there's no sales tax on standalone internet service.) That's not a special intro rate either.

They do charge a $50 install fee if you sign up online (or $100 if you sign up offline). But sometimes, like this week, they offer a special where they completely waive the install fee. (Use the code CordCutFree at checkout.)

In case 60 Mbps isn't fast enough (it's plenty fast enough for 4 simultaneous HD streams of 2 4K HDR streams, BTW), they offer 100 Mbps for $70 and 1000 Mbps for $95.

Main reason to go with them vs. AT&T Fiber would be to avoid AT&T's 1 TB data cap or to get the cheapest possible price. AT&T Fiber starts at $50/mo for 100 Mbps symmetrical, although I think that jumps to $60 after the first year. But you can get further bundling discounts if you have other AT&T services. And if you have DirecTV Now, they'll waive the 1 TB data cap.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

NashGuy said:


> Anyone who is lucky enough to have AT&T Fiber at their address can get that service sold to them via Toast.net instead of AT&T if they prefer. They offer symmetrical 60 Mbps service with no throttling, no data caps, equipment included for $45/month flat, no extra fees. (And in most states, there's no sales tax on standalone internet service.) That's not a special intro rate either.
> 
> They do charge a $50 install fee if you sign up online (or $100 if you sign up offline). But sometimes, like this week, they offer a special where they completely waive the install fee. (Use the code CordCutFree at checkout.)
> 
> ...


Thanks. They also do uncapped DSL broadband at a good rate, $38/month. Unfortunately, although I'm in an AT&T area, the area somehow doesn't qualify (perhaps when the promised AT&T fiber arrives?).


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Mikeguy said:


> Thanks. They also do uncapped DSL broadband at a good rate, $38/month. Unfortunately, although I'm in an AT&T area, the area somehow doesn't qualify (perhaps when the promised AT&T fiber arrives?).


I *think* that any address that qualifies for AT&T Internet fiber-to-the-node (what used to be called Uverse) or AT&T Fiber can get service through Toast.net. Toast refers to the FTTN service as "DSL 2.0" and there's a different set of speeds and prices there vs. fiber service (which I referenced above). If an address only qualifies for regular DSL from AT&T, Toast doesn't deal with that at all.

Hopefully you'll get AT&T Fiber at your place soon. They've really been expanding it and that push is supposed to wrap up this summer. So if you've been told it's on the way, I'd say it'll arrive in the next few months.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

NashGuy said:


> I *think* that any address that qualifies for AT&T Internet fiber-to-the-node (what used to be called Uverse) or AT&T Fiber can get service through Toast.net. Toast refers to the FTTN service as "DSL 2.0" and there's a different set of speeds and prices there vs. fiber service (which I referenced above). If an address only qualifies for regular DSL from AT&T, Toast doesn't deal with that at all.
> Hopefully you'll get AT&T Fiber at your place soon. They've really been expanding it and that push is supposed to wrap up this summer. So if you've been told it's on the way, I'd say it'll arrive in the next few months.


Thanks. AT&T has told me many things over the years--going back more than 10--about fiber coming (the last time, a couple of years ago: "no, we really mean it this time!"). The scoop this go-around, from last month, is from a tech.-world neighbor with an inside track, who has been working or at least communicating with AT&T's tech. people in some fashion and who told me that they're almost there, needing to do work on a remaining underground juncture point. We'll see when we see--in the meanwhile, I'm fine enough and surviving. 

(What will be most interesting is to see the AT&T pricing, and if/how much a shock it will be for those people coming from AT&T's sub-broadband DSL. A reason I found your post so relevant (and why I've bookmarked Toast.net for the future)--Toast's low-end price is in the neighborhood of AT&T's regular discounted DSL price (although somehow AT&T or its computers recently decided that I'm a "special" person--I have no idea why, apart from, perhaps, my bill and rates routinely having been screwed up this past half-year--and given me a further ~33% discount off of that).)


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## johnfasc (Dec 24, 2014)

wecnews said:


> After holding out for several years, I think I'm finally ready to cut the cord.
> I have a Bolt which can do OTA and cable, so it's no biggie to keep my Tivo (which is a must) but cancel cable subscription.
> 
> I used to keep cable for access to Disney/Nick Jr. for kids but now I find them watching shows on Netflix and Hulu more than anything else.
> ...


OK to answer your question without trying to sell you on cable or more streaming services. Cut the cord and get the cheapest internet service you can. We have spectrums lowest internet and never have problems watching and being on our computers at the same time. I see your family is mostly watching ota now, that's a good thing. Why would you not need a TiVo? As someone mentioned. That's your DVR to record and watch at your pleasure. Hulu to me is ota that you can watch later, but you have a TiVo so unless you are hooked on one of their programs kill the hulu. I did not see Prime in your mix and to me that's a great bang for your buck. (Heck the free shipping makes it worth it). Many kid shows on prime also. And don't forget you can try anything practically for free then decide and cut or add to your viewing pleasure. But really how many hours can you watch TV? Plus you mentioned college football. We get at least three high caliber games every Saturday on ota stations, sometimes four or five. 
As far as what works with TiVo, Prime and Netflix are excellent, but I do not stream as I went with an ethernet connection so no spinning wheels.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tapokata said:


> Furthermore, while the Bolt supports 4K streaming, it doesn't support extended color formats such as HDR or Dolby-vision.


Is this true for all the apps?


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

I don't think HDR of any flavor is enabled on the Bolt hardware.

My LG set has an indicator flag when HDR content is received (it can handle both HR-10 and Dolby Vision). I don't have a 4K sub to Netflix, but on both Amazon Prime and Youtube apps, the HDR flag does not illuminate despite selecting 4K source material, as it does when viewing the same material through the webOS apps native to the TV.


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## Hcour (Dec 24, 2007)

Man, I'm jealous of you guys that actually have ISP _choices_. Sheesh. In my area we have Spectrum and, er, Spectrum. $70 a month. Take it or leave it.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

tapokata said:


> I don't think HDR of any flavor is enabled on the Bolt hardware.
> 
> My LG set has an indicator flag when HDR content is received (it can handle both HR-10 and Dolby Vision). I don't have a 4K sub to Netflix, but on both Amazon Prime and Youtube apps, the HDR flag does not illuminate despite selecting 4K source material, as it does when viewing the same material through the webOS apps native to the TV.


According to this post, both the Netflix and Vudu apps support HDR10 with the Bolt and TE4.

HDR Status For Hydra TE4? Supported yet?

Scott


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## BNBTivo (Sep 7, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> Anyone who is lucky enough to have AT&T Fiber at their address can get that service sold to them via Toast.net instead of AT&T if they prefer. They offer symmetrical 60 Mbps service with no throttling, no data caps, equipment included for $45/month flat, no extra fees. (And in most states, there's no sales tax on standalone internet service.) That's not a special intro rate either.
> 
> They do charge a $50 install fee if you sign up online (or $100 if you sign up offline). But sometimes, like this week, they offer a special where they completely waive the install fee. (Use the code CordCutFree at checkout.)
> 
> ...


Great info! The ATT Fiber guy is literally at my house installing it now. Dumping Comcast due to data caps. We are doing the gigabit which is only $70 for the first contracted 12 months. No data cap. After that, it looks like Toast supports our location so we may switch to a lower plan and save a few bucks with them. It's fantastic having OPTIONS finally!

On the phone with Comcast to cancel, what a wonderful day!! I already referred my dad over to Toast, as the $45 plan is more than enough for him. Thanks for the info.


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

HerronScott said:


> According to this post, both the Netflix and Vudu apps support HDR10 with the Bolt and TE4.
> 
> HDR Status For Hydra TE4? Supported yet?
> 
> Scott


Good to know. Thanks. I'm not a Vudu customer, and don't subscribe to Netflix at the 4K level.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

BNBTivo said:


> Great info! The ATT Fiber guy is literally at my house installing it now. .


Does Fiber use a different modem than normal cable internet? Wondering what they had to actually install? Was it just they needed to hook it up to the house and then your regular cable lines took over and then you could still use your existing modem?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Donbadabon said:


> Does Fiber use a different modem than normal cable internet?


Yes, of course, since "fiber" != "cable."

That said, the home network (LAN) is identical, aside from whatever functionality the respective setups bring on the router, firewall and wireless access point fronts. They'll each likely result in a few Ethernet ports plus a wireless access point for connecting to the LAN. How you extend the LAN access throughout the house would be similar, but largely determined by available wiring and amenabilty to adding new.


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