# New software to fix 6.3e



## starbuck (Jan 25, 2003)

Anyone know if we'll get an update soon to fix all the issues with 6.3e?

Or will we have to wait until early 2008 when we get the software with the enhanced features as DirecTV recently announced?

I see posts reporting all kinds of problems that are possibly linked to 6.3e:


Locked-up or frozen units
Rebooting
Slowness
Unable to record from Suggestions (if suggestion is for local channel)


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## wedgecon (Dec 28, 2002)

DirecTV says there are no issues with 6.3e fix, hence there will be no updates. Numerous people have called in with problems and the reply is always that they do not know about any issues 

We may get a fix or we may not, DirecTV will not let us know. 

DirecTV will only inform us of updates that add features.


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## Dkerr24 (Oct 29, 2004)

Unless one of us works for Directv, how would we know? Of course how many ppl would be writing in saying 'my 6.3 is rock solid and works flawlessly?'


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## RadioDoc (Mar 9, 2003)

Dkerr24 said:


> Unless one of us works for Directv, how would we know? Of course how many ppl would be writing in saying 'my 6.3 is rock solid and works flawlessly?'


I'll say it:

My 6.3 is rock solid and works flawlessly!

Actually, it does. I've been happy.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

No major problem with 6.3e here.


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## dtremain (Jan 5, 2004)

fasTLane said:


> No major problem with 6.3e here.


Same here. For a while guides opened a little slowly, but all seems fine now.

Two units. Stock (unhacked and unmodified).

I know that this is absolute heresy on this forum, but, unlike personal computers, these are "black boxes." You cannot expect Directv to anticipate your hacks and hardware modifications, including replaced hard drives.

The unit is not meant to be user modified. Since it is your property, you can do as you please with it, but you only have yourself to blame when it fails to function, even at a later date.

Again, I know this is heresy and I can now expect to be flamed, but it is also true.

And, yes, Starbuck, I see from earlier postings that your units are "stock," but I don't see you complaining about any crashing or re-starting yourself.

You may be having a problem with "suggestions." I have had "suggestions" turned off for years, so I know little about it. It seems possible that the update re-set "suggestions" and it has to "learn" again. If so, you can quickly reteach it by using thumbs up and down.


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## juliana541 (Oct 19, 2005)

Dkerr24 said:


> how many ppl would be writing in saying 'my 6.3 is rock solid and works flawlessly?'


I did  (Called in) The rep said thats great,now please clear the line as we are overrun with problem calls  Just kidding


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## marktd (Jan 9, 2005)

dtremain said:


> Same here. For a while guides opened a little slowly, but all seems fine now.
> 
> Two units. Stock (unhacked and unmodified).
> 
> ...


I have two completely stock R10's and both are now, since 6.3e, nearly unusably slow, and both have locked up. I have *no* modified TiVos. Never have. The problems are so annoying that I dread doing things like changing channels or scrolling trough the guide because the TiVos are now so unresponsive.

As for the suggestions, I don't use them either, but your supposition is completely wrong. There is a problem there too and it has nothing to do with re-learning.

Something is wrong with 6.3e. Really wrong.

Mark


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## dtremain (Jan 5, 2004)

marktd said:


> Something is wrong with 6.3e. Really wrong.


Then why doesn't it affect all units?


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## rbtravis (Aug 9, 2005)

Why is everyone complaining about Diirectv. It clearly states in the copyright notice that all programming is the responsibility of TiVo which does all the programming. Directv simply distributes TiVo's code. they do not write it otherwise the notice would say portions of the code copyrighted by Directv which it does not. If there is a problem with the code it should be directed to TiVo who is responsible for the code not to Directv who simply has a contract with TiVo to keep the code current.


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## Irishsox1 (Feb 14, 2005)

I have an unhacked SD-40 and since 6.3e, I can't connect to the Tivo service at all. Nothing changed, my phone line works. This is the only update that has ever caused me problems. The problem is that I won't be able to connect to fix this problem.


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## rbtravis (Aug 9, 2005)

You shoulld be contacting TiVo because they are responsible for the software. if they get enough calls they will fix the problem. Note: TiVo no longer accepts customer support Emails. Maybe they know there is a problem and are using this as a bargining ploy with Directv.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

Mine is a stock R10, it has frozen twice since the update. Has gone a couple days without freezing. No longer can connect to the phone numbers.


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## Ingavar (Jan 5, 2004)

both of them have been rebooting and are slow on the guide. I have no hacks what-so-ever on them.  

Anyone have the contact info for Tivo concerning this problem?  Maybe even Directv?


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

You should be contacting DirecTV, not TiVo. If you call TiVo they will just tell you to call DirecTV. While it is true that TiVo writes the software, they do so as a subcontractor to DirecTV and your relationship is with DirecTV, not TiVo.

All I can suggest is that you call DirecTV and report the problem. Eventually someone will take notice, despite what the CSRs say.

I can't offer any personal view of this as my HR10 is still at 6.3c and I don't plan on changing that.


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## wedgecon (Dec 28, 2002)

Do not call TiVo for a problem relating to a DirecTivo. These units are completely under DirecTV's control and TiVo is not allowed to support these units. TiVo writes the software but only under the direction of DirecTV. DirecTV is responsible for all service and support.


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

RadioDoc said:


> I'll say it:
> 
> My 6.3 is rock solid and works flawlessly!


Do you receive your local ABC affiliate over the air?


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## RadioDoc (Mar 9, 2003)

Yes I do...


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## Ingavar (Jan 5, 2004)

I'll call Directv.


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## dcstager (Feb 16, 2002)

I don't have the update and want it. Would a call to DirecTV help anything? Is there and inside telephone number anyone knows about or some key phrase you have to use to get to the right person that knows what you are talking about? I don't think my model is scheduled to get it since it has not appeared in the MFS. Oh, well. Maybe next year.

I think the people with problems all have bad hard disks. The issue has come up every time there is an upgrade or any sort or nature. The Tivo is on 24-7 and your hard disc is going to last 3-5 years probably. A bad drive may show up even earlier and obviously the Tivo is highly sensitive to bad drives and read/write errors.

Someone should write a Tivo utility that does a thorough scandisc and repairs bad areas of the drives and checks the integrity of the file structure. Something like the old CHKDSK /F utility from DOS. I'm sure such a utility exists, but can't be run under the Tivo/Linux O/S.


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## Ingavar (Jan 5, 2004)

find it hard to believe that both of my hard drives developed problems at the same time.  

Any other thoughts?


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## rbtravis (Aug 9, 2005)

dcstager said:


> I don't have the update and want it. Would a call to DirecTV help anything? Is there and inside telephone number anyone knows about or some key phrase you have to use to get to the right person that knows what you are talking about? I don't think my model is scheduled to get it since it has not appeared in the MFS. Oh, well. Maybe next year.
> 
> I think the people with problems all have bad hard disks. The issue has come up every time there is an upgrade or any sort or nature. The Tivo is on 24-7 and your hard disc is going to last 3-5 years probably. A bad drive may show up even earlier and obviously the Tivo is highly sensitive to bad drives and read/write errors.
> 
> Someone should write a Tivo utility that does a thorough scandisc and repairs bad areas of the drives and checks the integrity of the file structure. Something like the old CHKDSK /F utility from DOS. I'm sure such a utility exists, but can't be run under the Tivo/Linux O/S.


If you go to messages and Settings>settings>phone>connect to DVR service - press select. That should dial up TiVo on the phone and if the upgrade has been downloaded it should activate it. Good Luck. I have 5 systems running 6.3e and all are working


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## starbuck (Jan 25, 2003)

dcstager said:


> I think the people with problems all have bad hard disks. The issue has come up every time there is an upgrade or any sort or nature. The Tivo is on 24-7 and your hard disc is going to last 3-5 years probably. A bad drive may show up even earlier and obviously the Tivo is highly sensitive to bad drives and read/write errors.


It's not *all* related to bad hard disks.

Sure, the new software loads to a new part of the hard disk and the update process switches over to the new software on a new part of the disk and it may expose some issues with hard disks that already have a problem or are marginal.

But one issue I see is in my Suggestions (on the same screen with the search by title option and the To Do list option). I see a list of the TiVo suggestions. I can select these selections. For the suggestions that are for shows on local channels, there is no option to "record this show" just an option to go back to the previous screen. The suggestions for the non-local channels (channels 200+) the option exists to "record this show". This would be related to some bug or program logic issue, not a bad hard disk.

I see in the postings that many people are seeing this problem. So whether you use Suggestions or not, it appears to be a logic related issue.

Don't know why some people are seeing no issues at all. Possibly the software is slightly different depending on the model. In other words, different slices get installed on different models.

I see the Suggestions problem on two stock Hughes HDVR2s and one stock Samsung SIR-S4040.

The number of people reporting problems after this software update seems higher than in the past.

Earl has some contacts with DTV people. I thought I saw a post from him on TCF or some other forum that an update to fix 6.3e might be in the works. Sorry Earl if I'm remembering incorrectly.


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## kdelande (Dec 17, 2001)

rbtravis said:


> If you go to messages and Settings>settings>phone>connect to DVR service - press select. That should dial up TiVo on the phone and if the upgrade has been downloaded it should activate it. Good Luck. I have 5 systems running 6.3e and all are working


Dial up Tivo?

You don't even know what you're talking about. Please stop spreading false info.


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## rbtravis (Aug 9, 2005)

kdelande said:


> Dial up Tivo?
> 
> You don't even know what you're talking about. Please stop spreading false info.


That happens to be the Menu options from version 6.3e of Directv DVR which is what we were talking about. It should dial up Directv's TiVo dvr service which is what we we talking about. Note you are in the Tivo with Directv forum


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## wedgecon (Dec 28, 2002)

dcstager said:


> I think the people with problems all have bad hard disks. The issue has come up every time there is an upgrade or any sort or nature. The Tivo is on 24-7 and your hard disc is going to last 3-5 years probably. A bad drive may show up even earlier and obviously the Tivo is highly sensitive to bad drives and read/write errors..


Frankly I am getting a little tired of people who keep repeating this statement. I have replaced my hard drive. The new hard drive had 6.2 on it and it did not reboot during the time 6.2 was on there, it only started rebooting agian after 6.3e was applied to the TiVo.

It seems like know matter how many times I repeat this a lot people just cant get past the "it must be the hard drive".


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## chuckg (Sep 1, 2007)

New Seagate DB35s from Weakness installed 7/2/07. Software 6.2a.
No problems with units (from summer 2004) before new drives. No problems afterwards. *Until, of course!* 
Late August auto-update to 6.3e. First the 160 GB unit with the _bragging message_. Wish I had recorded the date. Day or two later "Power Up".
Several days after 160 GB 6.3e the 320 GB was updated to 6.3e. And on 8/31/07 at ~7 pm the first of many, all documentated, "Power Up" incidents occured.


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## Da Goon (Oct 22, 2006)

kdelande said:


> Dial up Tivo?
> 
> You don't even know what you're talking about. Please stop spreading false info.


Directv tivos "dial up tivo" if you let them. Please, if you can, shed some light on this situation to rid us of false information  
(god, what's with people and their immediate jerk-off responses sometimes)

And, FWIW I have 3 tivos running 6.3e (2 HR10s and 1 DSR708) with old and new hard drives, and none of them have had any problems (other than the ones I've caused anyways  , each one of them "hacked" to pieces)


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## rbtravis (Aug 9, 2005)

Has everyone changed the 2032 battery - it cant hurt it could help - Tivo put it there for a reason.


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## dtremain (Jan 5, 2004)

wedgecon said:


> Frankly I am getting a little tired of people who keep repeating this statement. I have replaced my hard drive. The new hard drive had 6.2 on it and it did not reboot during the time 6.2 was on there, it only started rebooting agian after 6.3e was applied to the TiVo.


You can be all the tired you want, but the fact is that each upgrade gets placed on an alternate sector of the hard drive. Therefore, if there were problems in that new area, they affect the new software although they did not affect the old.

There always are complaints after each software update, and this is the likely reason why.

If there was something wrong with the software itself, everyone would be having the same problems.

I am not having any of the problems on either unit.

When there was an incompatibility with the guide data at the end of the 2006, it affected everyone.


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## wedgecon (Dec 28, 2002)

dtremain said:


> You can be all the tired you want, but the fact is that each upgrade gets placed on an alternate sector of the hard drive. Therefore, if there were problems in that new area, they affect the new software although they did not affect the old.
> 
> There always are complaints after each software update, and this is the likely reason why.
> 
> ...


Your are 100% wrong, software problems do not always affect everyone, it could be a combination of many things that only affect a subset of users.

There has been speculation of guide data problems on certain channels at certain times that may or may not be affected by the new sats. There is also the time factor that some people are like me the units only reboot between 5:00 PM and 7:00 PM, why is that? It would not be a hard drive problem

It has been proven that this is not a hard drive issue. The chances that I have two bad drives that work perfectly with 6.2a but do not with 6.3e is got to be like 100 trillion to one.

Aslo Not everybody was effected by the guide data, which was a problem with the guide data not the software itself.


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## chuckg (Sep 1, 2007)

dtremain said:


> You can be all the tired you want, but the fact is that each upgrade gets placed on an alternate sector of the hard drive. Therefore, if there were problems in that new area, they affect the new software although they did not affect the old.
> 
> There always are complaints after each software update, and this is the likely reason why.
> 
> ...


*Bold added by me* T'aint true! Identical hardware _is not identical, not now and not ever_. Learned that lesson over 40 years ago.


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## marktd (Jan 9, 2005)

dtremain said:


> You can be all the tired you want, but the fact is that each upgrade gets placed on an alternate sector of the hard drive. Therefore, if there were problems in that new area, they affect the new software although they did not affect the old.
> 
> There always are complaints after each software update, and this is the likely reason why.
> 
> ...


This hardly explains why so many people are seeing the same problems. I am seeing exactly the same behavior on two unmodified R10's. I think it extremely unlikely that both of mine, let alone everyone else's, have exactly the same drive defects in whatever random places that the new software happens to be put on the various size, manufacturer, and currently occupied drives involved. These are *not* drive problems.

As to why everyone is not seeing the problems, well, that's the nature of software bugs (logic errors are more likely to be seen universally, but not always). The overall state of a system like the Tivo is large. If you truly aren't seeing any of the reported problems, it probably means that the overall state or yours hasn't yet triggered the problems. I'm confident that if you really aren't seeing any problems, just wait... you will.

I suspect, for what it's worth, that all of the problems are emerging from a single cause (except the "suggestions" problem). For some reason, the Tivo doesn't seem to be handling events fast and/or often enough resulting in slowness and/or events being entirely dropped from the event queues (both of which could cause slowness and crashes). Lots of things could cause this to happen (anything from badly behaved processes/threads to a mistyped constant somewhere in the scheduler - a million causes) . I have absolutely no actual information on what is actually happening, but from the thing's behavior, that is what it looks like.

Mark


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## dcstager (Feb 16, 2002)

rbtravis said:


> If you go to messages and Settings>settings>phone>connect to DVR service - press select. That should dial up TiVo on the phone and if the upgrade has been downloaded it should activate it. Good Luck. I have 5 systems running 6.3e and all are working


I have a lot of hacks installed and I want to upgrade via slicer, so I'm waiting for 6.3e to appear in the SwSystem MFS entry. It's not there and I'm pretty sure it comes over the satellite and the telephone call sets a flag for the Tivo to install the new software.

As far as what is causing the issues, I have not read anything "logical" that eliminates human error, prevarication, and/or worn out/defective hard drives as the explanation.


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## rbtravis (Aug 9, 2005)

The key is there seams to be some sort of misplaced pride in the word unmodified. If you car won't start because the battery is dead you replace the battery. How many have replaced the battery on your Tivo? Tivo bought slow drives with a one year warranty. How many have replaced the drives? If you treated your Tivo like you treated your car maybe it would still be working perfectly. Have you given it a annual cleaning? The warrenty has expired so there is no reason not to open the box. Dust on components generates heat. Heat kills computers. Only people who have properly maintained their machines have the to question the software. If you failed to change the oil for three to four years your car may stop running. Why expect more from a TiVo.


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## Ingavar (Jan 5, 2004)

still can't believe both of my machines, bought at different times, would develop the same problems at the same time when a new software update was installed.

I think the coincidence is too far fetched.

I really feel it is a software problem, especially after seeing the posts here.


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## marktd (Jan 9, 2005)

rbtravis said:


> The key is there seams to be some sort of misplaced pride in the word unmodified. If you car won't start because the battery is dead you replace the battery. How many have replaced the battery on your Tivo? Tivo bought slow drives with a one year warranty. How many have replaced the drives? If you treated your Tivo like you treated your car maybe it would still be working perfectly. Have you given it a annual cleaning? The warrenty has expired so there is no reason not to open the box. Dust on components generates heat. Heat kills computers. Only people who have properly maintained their machines have the to question the software. If you failed to change the oil for three to four years your car may stop running. Why expect more from a TiVo.


I suspect TiVo would recommend against this, but provided you don't damage anything in the process, it wouldn't do any harm. However, again, it is very unlikely that this is what is happening. Very. If this were some sort of heat induced race-condition or power supply issue or something, it would surely be known by now - and it likely wouldn't present the same way (or at all) on units with different components (processors, etc.). The likelihood that both of mine suddenly started exhibiting the same problems (along with everyone else's) at the same time new software was installed indicates a software problem. By the way, neither of mine are dusty, and both run cool. If someone wants to test this heat hypothesis, unplug your unit for an hour or so, plug it back in, and if it still runs slow, etc.... well there it is. I feel pretty confidant that I can predict the result.

It has also been reported that people who have had old drives with old versions of the software on them lying around have re-installed those drives and alleviated the problems reported with 6.3e.

As for modified/unmodified... people, including me, have mentioned it merely (at least in my case) because it is useful information - it shows that both stock and modified TiVo's are experiencing the same problems.

Are there other problems, e.g., drive failures, etc., mixed in with all these reports? I'm sure there are, but those would be at the ordinary background level - I'm confident that is not what I and most others are experiencing.

Mark


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## juliana541 (Oct 19, 2005)

rbtravis said:


> That happens to be the Menu options from version 6.3e of Directv DVR which is what we were talking about. It should dial up Directv's TiVo dvr service which is what we we talking about. Note you are in the Tivo with Directv forum


It says connect to the dvr service. Nothing about tivo. You are connecting to directv not tivo and that is what is being disputed.


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## juliana541 (Oct 19, 2005)

rbtravis said:


> Has everyone changed the 2032 battery - it cant hurt it could help - Tivo put it there for a reason.


Ill bite! What is the 2032 battery


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## juliana541 (Oct 19, 2005)

Ingavar said:


> both of them have been rebooting and are slow on the guide. I have no hacks what-so-ever on them.
> 
> Anyone have the contact info for Tivo concerning this problem?  Maybe even Directv?


1800directv


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## Da Goon (Oct 22, 2006)

juliana541 said:


> Ill bite! What is the 2032 battery


It's the small "watch" battery on the tivo motherboard. It's there for the internal clock.


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## Da Goon (Oct 22, 2006)

juliana541 said:


> It says connect to the dvr service. Nothing about tivo. You are connecting to directv not tivo and that is what is being disputed.


Ever connected a serial cable and watched the terminal output while a daily call is occurring? I have. Directivos hit the same servers that standalone tivos do.


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## robpickles (May 19, 2005)

Here is another problem I know other people as well as I have been having since the 6.3e software update. I posted it originally in the "DTivos that are "rebooting" sticky thread.



robpickles said:


> I just had the starangest thing happen to me.
> 
> First off let me say my R10 has also been having reboots since getting 6.3e.
> 
> ...


Rob


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## rbtravis (Aug 9, 2005)

The 2032 battery I believe is used by the internal clock and the hard drive parameters. If your machine is rebooting at the same time it sounds like it could be a clock problem to me. remember this is the computer clock not the Directv clock which comes down from the Satellite. these batteries are about the size of a quarter and are selling at Walmart for around $2.25. (Walmart just raised the price) It could fix your problem and is so inexpensive it might be worth a try. Good Luck.


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## wedgecon (Dec 28, 2002)

I just happen to have a spare 2032 battery in my desk and I will replace it tonight.


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## rbtravis (Aug 9, 2005)

Please let us know whether or not it works. Thank you


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## dtremain (Jan 5, 2004)

marktd said:


> This hardly explains why so many people are seeing the same problems.


It's not "so many people." Just like any other time this has happened, it is the same few people posting over and over again.

I'm certain that most people aren't having any problem, just like me, but, unlike compulsive old me, have long ago begun to ignore these stirngs on them.

Count the actual number of people who are posting repeatedly about this.

There are not mysterious things about the "state of the units" that are affecting the matter. Regardless of what anyone says, the units, stock and unmodified, come out of the factories the same.

If damage takes place that causes these problems, it's with the hard drive.

And, I have already explained why that would suddenly appear with a new upgrade.

For those who have the same problem at the same time of day with their units, I would suggest that there must be something uniquely happening in your environment at those times. Unless you think that there is something in the guide data (which would not appear to have much to do with the software update).

Hard drives.

Ah, I hear the hue and cry as I click "submit reply."

Have fun.


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## wedgecon (Dec 28, 2002)

dtremain said:


> It's not "so many people." Just like any other time this has happened, it is the same few people posting over and over again.
> 
> I'm certain that most people aren't having any problem, just like me, but, unlike compulsive old me, have long ago begun to ignore these stirngs on them.
> 
> ...


Yes we know you think it is the hard drives, it is obvious you do not have much insight so please do not post anymore unless you have something else to add.


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## marktd (Jan 9, 2005)

dtremain said:


> There are not mysterious things about the "state of the units" that are affecting the matter. Regardless of what anyone says, the units, stock and unmodified, come out of the factories the same.


I'm sorry. I shouldn't have used a technical term in a general forum. The "state" of a software system is not mysterious, it is the "unique configuration of information in a program or machine."  See, e.g., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_(computer_science)
This is what I was referring to in my post. Two copies of a given computer program with different values for any variable will have different "states" in this sense. A program can be stable in one state, and unstable or crash in another. Programs should, of course, be stable, or at least well behaved, in all achievable states... few are. This is why some programs will unexpectedly crash in un-reproducible ways. These problems can be very difficult to track down and fix.

Whether the units are the same out of the factory or not is not the issue, once a computer program begins to run on a system, its state will vary from that of an identical unit which has received different input. If this were not the case, you wouldn't even be able to change the channel.

I'm sorry if I caused any confusion, I'll try to be clearer in the future.

Mark


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I was at my friend's house and we were watching his Samsung player which was recently updated with the Weaknees 300 hour drive. We had a major storm and the unit completely froze. His other Samsung also upgraded was fine but showed searching for satellites. He rebooted the tivo and then a little while later the storm picked up again. The unit froze again so he rebooted it and everything was fine. I go home and find one of my unhacked/unmodified RCA Tivos frozen also and a few minutes later my mom calls me to ask what to do since she came home and her R10 was frozen. 

My Tivo rebooted tonight as I was browsing my to do list and at the same time it started pouring outside so it definitely seems to have something to do with signal loss.


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## dtremain (Jan 5, 2004)

marktd said:


> Two copies of a given computer program with different values for any variable will have different "states" in this sense. A program can be stable in one state, and unstable or crash in another. Programs should, of course, be stable, or at least well behaved, in all achievable states... few are. This is why some programs will unexpectedly crash in un-reproducible ways. These problems can be very difficult to track down and fix.


Yeah, I do understand that. I don't understand why it would cause two units in a person's home to malfunction in exactly the same way at the same time, as some have reported here, however.

Despite what some think here, I am not naive to technology. I do believe, however, in looking to the most obvious place when making a diagnosis.

The old horse/zebra analogy.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

wedgecon said:


> Yes we know you think it is the hard drives, it is obvious you do not have much insight so please do not post anymore unless you have something else to add.


Every upgrade exposes hard drives that were failing. The number of posters with problems isn't any more then is "normal" after a software upgrade.

The first thing to do is to go the hard driver mfg website, D/L the diagnostic program and run the extended (burn in) tests. It may need to run overnight.

*Until posters run these tests many of us will continue to suggest the hard drive* as the most likely culprit.

Once or twice the problem was with the software but the threads with problems were much longer then what's found with this version.

Unlike a PC all the sofware in a tivo is suppose to be "stock". PC operating system has to be able to handle countless combinations of hardware and software combinations.

Again the number of complaints doesn't suggest a sofware problem, although it's possible.

I've had a HD fail on my SONY T-60 (series 1) and on my HDVR2 (series 2) within a day of each other. Both failed mfg diagnostics and both units worked fine after I replaced the drives. The fact that two units failed in one persons house at the same time doesn't mean that much..


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## dtremain (Jan 5, 2004)

lew said:


> Once or twice the problem was with the software but the threads with problems were much longer then what's found with this version.


I've been thinking that as well. When the problem with the guide data / software interaction occurred last year, within a few days the relevant threads were up to 16 pages.

This one is at two pages after weeks, and the others have largely disappeared.

This is not that broad based a problem.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

YOUR POST MAKES NO SENSE.

Automobiles come with manuals that provide a servicing schedule for things like oil changes.

The tivo manual doesn't suggest any such servicing. Most (all?) tivo units use torx screws to discourage customers from opening their units. Tivo wouldn't be allowed to use the unshielded power supplies if there were any customer serviceable components.

This comes right from a tivo manual:



> DO NOT DISASSEMBLE THIS EQUIPMENT. It does not contain any user serviceable components.


 No mention of opening up the unit for a "spring cleaning" or to change a battery.

*You have it reversed, customers that opened up their units are the one's that haven't properly maintained their machines, as per tivo, and as such are the customers that can't question the software.*



rbtravis said:


> The key is there seams to be some sort of misplaced pride in the word unmodified. If you car won't start because the battery is dead you replace the battery. How many have replaced the battery on your Tivo? Tivo bought slow drives with a one year warranty. How many have replaced the drives? If you treated your Tivo like you treated your car maybe it would still be working perfectly. Have you given it a annual cleaning? The warrenty has expired so there is no reason not to open the box. Dust on components generates heat. Heat kills computers. *Only people who have properly maintained their machines have the to question the software*. If you failed to change the oil for three to four years your car may stop running. Why expect more from a TiVo.


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## wedgecon (Dec 28, 2002)

rbtravis said:


> Please let us know whether or not it works. Thank you


I went to remove the old battery and managed to break off the metal clip that holds it on. I have replaced numerous CMOS batteries over the years and had never managed to do that. The clip on the DirecTivo was very strong and I thought I was being gentle but it just snapped. After putting a new a new battery in I taped the clip back on kinda jamming it into the area where it broke off. I am not 100% sure it is making full contact but I put the case back on and re attached all the cables. I powered up the R10 and it appears to be working ok. The time is correct in guide and the system information screen.

Does anybody really know what happens to a DirecTivo if the CMOS battery fails? It appears the OS syncs it's time with the satellite upon powering up and the BIOS appears to be able to auto detect the hard drive so that should not be an issue. I did some google searches and found that some series 1 stand alone TiVo's had some issues but nothing recent.

Since TiVo's were never designed to be opened up I want to believe that the battery is not really needed as these batteries sometimes last only 2 or 3 years.

I would suggest to others to hold off on replacing the battery until more information is known.


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## chrishicks (Dec 31, 2003)

I have an idea of what I'm going to do. one of my Samsungs is still on 6.2a. it has been showing possible HDD issues with tons of audio dropouts(on both digital and analog). I pulled the plug on it after my other one received 6.3e and started the constant rebooting which made me replace the drive. what I am going to do is let my first Samsung upgrade to 6.3e as soon as I finish watching everything that I have in it and see hat happens. if the drive dies afterwards no biggie(I have another one here ready to install) and if it still keeps on chugging I'll report back.


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## wedgecon (Dec 28, 2002)

lew said:


> Every upgrade exposes hard drives that were failing. The number of posters with problems isn't any more then is "normal" after a software upgrade.
> 
> The first thing to do is to go the hard driver mfg website, D/L the diagnostic program and run the extended (burn in) tests. It may need to run overnight.
> 
> ...


Did you not read any posts?

I ran these tests on both of my drives and they were fine. There is only a problem when 6.3e is installed on my R10.

I understand the problem might not be widespread, but I do not think it is the hard drive.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

Exactly. The manual tells customers not to open their units. AFAIK the poster in this thread is the only person who ever suggested replacing the battery. My guess is there are a lot of long term tivo customers running with dead batteries.



wedgecon said:


> Since TiVo's were never designed to be opened up I want to believe that the battery is not really needed as these batteries sometimes last only 2 or 3 years.
> 
> I would suggest to others to hold off on replacing the battery until more information is known.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

Yes I read the posts in this thread.

Yes I must of missed the post where you said you ran the mfg extended diagnostic program. Sorry if I missed it. You have to run the extended (overnight tests). A drive that passes the quick test may have enough issues to prevent it working in a DVR.

You said you bought new drives. Not common but some new drives are defective.

I don't think there are enough posts to suggest a software problem. Since you're convinced your HD is OK check the cable. Maybe even replace it.

Finally it's possible your unit has some other hardware issue.

edited to add *I just went back and re-read every one of your posts in this thread. YOU DIDN'T MENTION RUNNING ANY HARD DRIVE DIAGNOSTIC TESTS.*

I'll let you get your help from the person who suggested a "spring cleaning" and battery replacement.



wedgecon said:


> Did you not read any posts?
> 
> I ran these tests on both of my drives and they were fine. There is only a problem when 6.3e is installed on my R10.
> 
> I understand the problem might not be widespread, but I do not think it is the hard drive.


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## robpickles (May 19, 2005)

lew said:


> Yes I read the posts in this thread.
> 
> Yes I must of missed the post where you said you ran the mfg extended diagnostic program. Sorry if I missed it. You have to run the extended (overnight tests). A drive that passes the quick test may have enough issues to prevent it working in a DVR.
> 
> ...


I read that this guy did indeed do diagnostic tests and they came up ok. It might have been in another thread. We really should keep all these posts in the 'sticky' thread - they all relate to problems since 6.3e.

I also read about several people doing tests where they switched out for new hard drives, let in run for a few days with no problems then plugged in for the update and reboots started occurring immediately after the update.

Rob


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## wedgecon (Dec 28, 2002)

Sorry I am getting the threads mixed up...I postem them in the "reboots" thread.


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## Roc570 (Sep 19, 2007)

robpickles said:


> I also read about several people doing tests where they switched out for new hard drives, let in run for a few days with no problems then plugged in for the update and reboots started occurring immediately after the update.
> 
> Rob


So can I install a new HD, NOT at 6.3 , plug the phone line in to set it up and then pull the phoneline to avoid activating the update?
Thanks


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Yes, you can do that.


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## Roc570 (Sep 19, 2007)

stevel said:


> Yes, you can do that.


Thanks Steve
so do they send update packets often ? I guess what I'm asking is it wouldnt grab 6.3 while setting up with the phoneline plugged in right?


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## robpickles (May 19, 2005)

Roc570 said:


> So can I install a new HD, NOT at 6.3 , plug the phone line in to set it up and then pull the phoneline to avoid activating the update?
> Thanks


Yes u can. I am doing it as soon as my drives get here! :up:

Rob


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## goony (Nov 20, 2003)

dtremain said:


> Then why doesn't it affect all units?


Not everyone subscribes to the same channels, not everyone has the same wishlists, season passes, disk fullness level, model of DTivo, etc.

Obvious bugs that affect many/all boxes get weeded out by testing; it's possible that a bug could be out there may only affect some users that escaped cursory testing.

We have no way of knowing if DirecTV/Tivo tests their upgrades as thoroughly as they did when these boxes were a production item.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Roc570 said:


> Thanks Steve
> so do they send update packets often ? I guess what I'm asking is it wouldnt grab 6.3 while setting up with the phoneline plugged in right?


The actual 6.3 software is received over the satellite, but is not installed until a phone call is made to authorize it. That won't happen during the initial setup call.


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## temp357 (Feb 18, 2004)

My two bit, this is a software problem. We had the same issue with the HR10's when the 6.3x software rolled out. I replaced my hard drive thinking the drive was going bad and had the exact same problem. I have since gone back to the original drive and downgraded the software with no problems.


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## Roc570 (Sep 19, 2007)

stevel said:


> The actual 6.3 software is received over the satellite, but is not installed until a phone call is made to authorize it. That won't happen during the initial setup call.


Thanks again Stevel

can the showcase option be shut off ? 
I tried to watch the ABC preview and thats when the rebooting started
I cleared everything (except recordings) and while there was no showcases available
not even the icon was there everything ran fine......as soon as the icon came back
with showcases to view the machine started acting up again....coincidence ? IDK
But if its possible to shut the showcases off I'd be curious to see if my machine stops acting up
thanks again


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I think that was a coincidence. You cannot shut off the showcases.


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## Roc570 (Sep 19, 2007)

stevel said:


> I think that was a coincidence. You cannot shut off the showcases.


Thanks again, I figured I'd ask cause Ive read/heard a few people having trouble when entering the showcases especially the ABC preview (me included)

Oh well guess I'll wait for my new drive and hope thats the reason


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## ostrom (Mar 26, 2003)

rbtravis said:


> The key is there seams to be some sort of misplaced pride in the word unmodified. If you car won't start because the battery is dead you replace the battery. How many have replaced the battery on your Tivo? Tivo bought slow drives with a one year warranty. How many have replaced the drives? If you treated your Tivo like you treated your car maybe it would still be working perfectly. Have you given it a annual cleaning? The warrenty has expired so there is no reason not to open the box. Dust on components generates heat. Heat kills computers. Only people who have properly maintained their machines have the to question the software. If you failed to change the oil for three to four years your car may stop running. Why expect more from a TiVo.


This is ridiculous logic. I'll use your (foolish) analogy, though... If I fail to change the oil in my car I can expect problems over time, but if I buy a tank of gas and the car starts sputtering and dies on the side of the road should I focus on the oil, or perhaps I just got a bad tank of gas?????

I have an HR10-250, which has been working great. It has 2 250MB drives, and yes, the dust has been blown out. When I added second drive I upgraded to a pair of new 250MB WD drives, and have no reason whatsoever to suspect a drive problems. My system came up with a message requesting that I dial in for a call, and immediately thereafter it started failing just as many others have reported.

If this many people are reporting it here, can you imagine the number of people out there who are having problems. The numbers must be staggering.


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## ostrom (Mar 26, 2003)

I searched the forum, but can't find anything directly on point. My HR10-250 is essentially useless, can someone point me to "downgrade" instructions so I can go back to some earlier version. I do need to keep my recordings. Thanks.


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## Da Goon (Oct 22, 2006)

ostrom said:


> I searched the forum, but can't find anything directly on point. My HR10-250 is essentially useless, can someone point me to "downgrade" instructions so I can go back to some earlier version. I do need to keep my recordings. Thanks.


You'll need to reimage your drive using an older image. dvrupgrade.com may have a 3.1.5x image available still, or maybe you can beg one from somewhere. This will blow your recordings away. There's no way to downgrade without losing them.


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## leftstrat (Apr 18, 2005)

The only thing that I've noticed so far, is that the menus and channel switching seem to be slower, and when you change channels using the same tuner, you'll get the Red/Green/Blue rainbow effect across the screen, then the picture stabilizes. 

Could be a matter of the software updates are taxing the processors/memory of the D*tivos that exist now.


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## snookuda (Dec 8, 2005)

I have the 6.3e and an R10 tivo and it freezes every couple of days. I have a UPS that has worked flawlessly for the last year and is still good. However, i suspect the freezing is due to lightning strikes or power outages. This morning i turned on my tv and the picture was frozen, we had bad storms overnight.

I also have noticed changing the channels is considerably slower than before the 6.3e upgrade. I used to be able to press the channel up/down button 2 times and skip 2 channels, now it only changes one channel at a time even if i press the up/down channel twice quickly.

I do not have the tivo rebooting problem, only the freezing up problem on my R10.


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## starbuck (Jan 25, 2003)

snookuda said:


> I have the 6.3e and an R10 tivo and it freezes every couple of days. I have a UPS that has worked flawlessly for the last year and is still good. However, i suspect the freezing is due to lightning strikes or power outages.


Since the UPS is good (providing both power and line conditioning to the unit) but the unit still freezes during a storm, perhaps the freeze is due to a brief interruption of the satellite data flow. Perhaps *before *6.3e the unit could recover from a brief loss of signal; but since 6.3e, a brief signal loss or garbled signal could cause the unit to freeze.

Also, do you have a powered switch and is it on UPS? Wonder what a brief loss of power to a powered switch does that might impact the unit. It is interesting the freeze tends to occur during lightning storms or power outages but you have a UPS on the unit.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

Update, my DTIVO only froze the first couple of days and seems to be working fine now. The one problem is it has not had a successful phone connection since the 6.3e update.
According to these forums, when an update is ready, the DTIVO installs it based on the phone call. But since my DTIVO can no longer make phone calls, due to 6.3e breaking this feature, how is my DTIVO going to get an update that fixes this? lol


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