# Tivo Edge OTA



## T1vo_Chris

I've been a Tivo user for a while and my experience has gotten worse over the years. I started with an HD, had a Roamio that died. It got replaced by a Bolt and then another Bolt. Currently, I just use it to record OTA content and use Roku for everything else. I live in a major urban area and my signals are pretty good, but the Bolt can't seem to lock in on the signal despite another TV in my house without a Tivo connected, working just fine. I've gone through support and they tell me I need better signals, but from what I can figure out, the 4 tuner card is splitting the signal and thus reducing the quality. I don't think the problem is on my end. I have a huge old school antenna in my attic and also a Mohu Leaf that I've tried with and without a powered boost. It isn't consistent. I've even watched a show live that Tivo said it couldn't record due to no signal. Crazy. My channel signals are usually in the 60's, sometimes up to 72.

Anyway, will the Edge be better in this regard, or will it be the same old story? I'm willing to chalk up these issues to the Bolt being a piece of garbage. I am considering trying to the new Edge, and also I'd lower my monthly cost a bit. Are the tuners upgraded or better on the Edge? Does anyone have any insight into if this will be an improvement for just OTA recording?


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## JoeKustra

72 is the normal signal level after AGC has adjusted it. This is true for all OTA TiVo 4-tuner boxes since the Roamio.


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## T1vo_Chris

JoeKustra said:


> 72 is the normal signal level after AGC has adjusted it. This is true for all OTA TiVo 4-tuner boxes since the Roamio.


Ok, thanks. So it sounds like the signal is not the issue even though Tivo is telling me it is. But it's getting annoying paying for Tivo when I don't even get the few recordings I want each week. The question is, will Edge do better than what I have?


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## Pokemon_Dad

T1vo_Chris said:


> Ok, thanks. So it sounds like the signal is not the issue even though Tivo is telling me it is. But it's getting annoying paying for Tivo when I don't even get the few recordings I want each week. The question is, will Edge do better than what I have?


TiVo lost me with the Bolt. If the TV in your house is working fine, then I'd distrust anything they try to tell you about the Bolt or the new Edge, which is still a very new product still getting the bugs out so who knows how good the hardware is.

A cheaper way of proving the signals on the Bolt's connection to your antenna are OK would be to buy one of the little HD HomeRun boxes on sale today. $65 for a two-tuner Connect Duo, more for the four-tuner model. https://www.amazon.com/Sil...

Connect it to your antenna and your network, then view signal strengths in your web browser and watch TV in one of their free apps for PC/mobile/ATV/FireTV/etc. (DVR features can be added later, with another box from the same company or other TiVo alternatives like Plex and Channels DVR.)


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## T1vo_Chris

I've looked at the Tivo 


Pokemon_Dad said:


> TiVo lost me with the Bolt. If the TV in your house is working fine, then I'd distrust anything they try to tell you about the Bolt or the new Edge, which is still a very new product still getting the bugs out so who knows how good the hardware is.
> 
> A cheaper way of proving the signals on the Bolt's connection to your antenna are OK would be to buy one of the little HD HomeRun boxes on sale today. $65 for a two-tuner Connect Duo, more for the four-tuner model. https://www.amazon.com/Sil...
> 
> Connect it to your antenna and your network, then view signal strengths in your web browser and watch TV in one of their free apps for PC/mobile/ATV/FireTV/etc. (DVR features can be added later, with another box from the same company or other TiVo alternatives like Plex and Channels DVR.)


I've looked at the Tivo alternatives and none of them are compelling. I'm pretty sure my signal is fine considering it works well on another TV and it used to work fine on my old Roamio. I'm just trying to determine if the Edge is worth upgrading to.


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## JoeKustra

T1vo_Chris said:


> I've looked at the Tivo
> I've looked at the Tivo alternatives and none of them are compelling. I'm pretty sure my signal is fine considering it works well on another TV and it used to work fine on my old Roamio. I'm just trying to determine if the Edge is worth upgrading to.


You have 30 days to decide. If you like the new car smell, choose EDGE. You like a better history, choose Roamio. I don't have OTA or a Bolt, so I have no comment on those items.


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## Pokemon_Dad

T1vo_Chris said:


> I've looked at the Tivo alternatives and none of them are compelling. I'm pretty sure my signal is fine considering it works well on another TV and it used to work fine on my old Roamio. I'm just trying to determine if the Edge is worth upgrading to.


Then I'd second @JoeKustra's recommendation, and I'll go even farther because I have experience with a Bolt, I have closely monitored reports on the EDGE, and I say the Roamios were the last great series TiVo ever produced. I recommend a refubished Roamio with a Weaknees warranty, whether an EDGE would work in your location or not. But if you really need to know then give an EDGE a try under that 30-day guarantee, because nobody here is going to be able to tell you how it will perform in your exact situation.


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## T1vo_Chris

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Then I'd second @JoeKustra's recommendation, and I'll go even farther because I have experience with a Bolt, I have closely monitored reports on the EDGE, and I say the Roamios were the last great series TiVo ever produced. I recommend a refubished Roamio with a Weaknees warranty, whether an EDGE would work in your location or not. But if you really need to know then give an EDGE a try under that 30-day guarantee, because nobody here is going to be able to tell you how it will perform in your exact situation.


You are misunderstanding what I'm asking, but thank you for attempting to help. I just want to know if anyone has a comparison of the OTA tuners between Bolt and the Edge. I understand that nobody can tell me the performance of an Edge in my exact situation.


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## Pokemon_Dad

T1vo_Chris said:


> You are misunderstanding what I'm asking, but thank you for attempting to help. I just want to know if anyone has a comparison of the OTA tuners between Bolt and the Edge. I understand that nobody can tell me the performance of an Edge in my exact situation.


I do understand, and hopefully if we keep bumping up this thread you'll find someone who has replaced a Bolt OTA with an Edge OTA and sees a difference. But you'd still need a randomized sample size of thirty replies before you could rely on that, and the Edge is probably too new for that kind of response. Complaints of all kinds about the Bolt, on the other hand, are legion.


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## trip1eX

Pokemon_Dad said:


> TiVo lost me with the Bolt. If the TV in your house is working fine, then I'd distrust anything they try to tell you about the Bolt or the new Edge, which is still a very new product still getting the bugs out so who knows how good the hardware is.
> 
> A cheaper way of proving the signals on the Bolt's connection to your antenna are OK would be to buy one of the little HD HomeRun boxes on sale today. $65 for a two-tuner Connect Duo, more for the four-tuner model. https://www.amazon.com/Sil...
> 
> Connect it to your antenna and your network, then view signal strengths in your web browser and watch TV in one of their free apps for PC/mobile/ATV/FireTV/etc. (DVR features can be added later, with another box from the same company or other TiVo alternatives like Plex and Channels DVR.)


Why not just connect the antenna to the tv to test out your signal strength? Add a splitter if you need to simulate the signal being split by a Tivo.

also the OP can just add a splitter to his other tv that is getting a picture just fine to immediately tell if the signal (after being split) would be good or not.


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## Pokemon_Dad

trip1eX said:


> Why not just connect the antenna to the tv to test out your signal strength? Add a splitter if you need to simulate the signal being split by a Tivo.
> 
> also the OP can just add a splitter to his other tv that is getting a picture just fine to immediately tell if the signal (after being split) would be good or not.


I like suggesting those HDHR boxes as tiny testing toys and possible long-term TiVo alternatives, but as the OP has responded, testing is not really what he wants to do. He's just hoping an Edge will be better than a Bolt. I think it's safe to say we've all been hoping that.


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## bruce316

T1vo_Chris said:


> You are misunderstanding what I'm asking, but thank you for attempting to help. I just want to know if anyone has a comparison of the OTA tuners between Bolt and the Edge. I understand that nobody can tell me the performance of an Edge in my exact situation.


I'll share my experience with the Edge and maybe it will help in your decision. I've had a Roamia used for OTA for about 5 1/2 years. Several weeks ago I wanted to get another Tivo OTA to pair with a new 4k tv. I initially purchased a Bolt OTA and I did a lot of comparisons with my Roamio over a couple week period looking especially at signal strength readings between the two. I found them both to be almost exactly the same. Most of my local station towers are about 20-40 miles away and I have a Clearstream 4 antenna in the attic. The Tivos would get 72% and 29 SNR most stations, 65% and 26 SNR on a couple, and 50% with 21 SNR on a couple low power stations. Something went wrong with the Bolt after a couple weeks and it started having problems tuning stations it had worked perfectly with before and that the Roamio had no problems with. I returned the Bolt and decided to take a chance on the Edge.

I've had the Edge OTA about a week and a half now and the stations I received at 72% and 29 SNR on the Roamio/Bolt are now at about 90% and 36 SNR on the Edge. Stations that were 65% and 26 SNR before are now about 83% and 32 SNR on the Edge. Low power stations that were 50% and 21 SNR before have stayed about the same on the Edge. I don't know if the tuners are actually any better or if they just changed how the Edge handles/reports the signal input.

It cost me twice as much for the Edge as I paid for the Bolt (on sale) and I was not happy about that but I've been very happy with the performance of the Edge so far. It runs cooler than the Bolt and the lighted remote is a nice touch. I would recommend trying the Tivo Edge and see if it works out for you. Return it if it doesn't do what you need it to.


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## JoeKustra

bruce316 said:


> I've had the Edge OTA about a week and a half now and the stations I received at 72% and 29 SNR on the Roamio/Bolt are now at about 90% and 36 SNR on the Edge. Stations that were 65% and 26 SNR before are now about 83% and 32 SNR on the Edge. Low power stations that were 50% and 21 SNR before have stayed about the same on the Edge. I don't know if the tuners are actually any better or if they just changed how the Edge handles/reports the signal input.


Just speculating, but it sounds that the OTA and cable signal strength software (or AGC) is now the same for the EDGE. 99% of my Roamio's cable channels are 90% and 36dB SNR.


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## T1vo_Chris

bruce316 said:


> I'll share my experience with the Edge and maybe it will help in your decision. I've had a Roamia used for OTA for about 5 1/2 years. Several weeks ago I wanted to get another Tivo OTA to pair with a new 4k tv. I initially purchased a Bolt OTA and I did a lot of comparisons with my Roamio over a couple week period looking especially at signal strength readings between the two. I found them both to be almost exactly the same. Most of my local station towers are about 20-40 miles away and I have a Clearstream 4 antenna in the attic. The Tivos would get 72% and 29 SNR most stations, 65% and 26 SNR on a couple, and 50% with 21 SNR on a couple low power stations. Something went wrong with the Bolt after a couple weeks and it started having problems tuning stations it had worked perfectly with before and that the Roamio had no problems with. I returned the Bolt and decided to take a chance on the Edge.
> 
> I've had the Edge OTA about a week and a half now and the stations I received at 72% and 29 SNR on the Roamio/Bolt are now at about 90% and 36 SNR on the Edge. Stations that were 65% and 26 SNR before are now about 83% and 32 SNR on the Edge. Low power stations that were 50% and 21 SNR before have stayed about the same on the Edge. I don't know if the tuners are actually any better or if they just changed how the Edge handles/reports the signal input.
> 
> It cost me twice as much for the Edge as I paid for the Bolt (on sale) and I was not happy about that but I've been very happy with the performance of the Edge so far. It runs cooler than the Bolt and the lighted remote is a nice touch. I would recommend trying the Tivo Edge and see if it works out for you. Return it if it doesn't do what you need it to.


Thanks, that gives me some confidence in trying out the Edge. I really appreciate you sharing your experience, and I think I'll give it a shot in the New Year. I wonder if they will ever put it on sale or if they are still trying to unload the Bolts. I was hoping for a Christmas sale.


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## mpf541

I got one of the edged OTA a couple of months ago. I had been having problems with my bolts. I started getting one local channel that kept getting pixelated every so often. This never started until the channel reassignment that happened. After calling support about this they decided that Bec cause of rebooting when checking channel strength they needed to replace it. After this was replaced the pixilations issues started. They replaced it again with the same issue. Then after hunting this board I found it was a software problem. But anyway I decided to get a new edge. 

The new edge seems to have a better tuner. I have no more issues with the signal. Strange thing is I put the bolt on a TV at the end of the house and it works great there. But the edge seems to work great. I pretty much only use it for TV. I have long ago realized that any app that tivo puts on a device is only good the day they sold it. It will probably never get any updates. TiVo always blames this on the vendor. To me they are selling this saying it is a hub for all your apps. Well my smart tv has better apps that also get updates. 

I will recommend the edge as the best DVR there is right now. It sucks for every thing else. But if you are looking for a great DVR you can't beat it.


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## bruce316

T1vo_Chris said:


> Thanks, that gives me some confidence in trying out the Edge. I really appreciate you sharing your experience, and I think I'll give it a shot in the New Year. I wonder if they will ever put it on sale or if they are still trying to unload the Bolts. I was hoping for a Christmas sale.


I've only seen the Edge on sale once which lasted just a couple days about a month ago. I believe it was $30 off and was posted on Tivo's facebook page. I think it will be a while before they have any discounts on the Edge since their focus now seems to be moving as many of the Bolt's as they can. Keep a close eye on it though, they might post some kind of after Christmas sale.


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## Hahn Niv

I'm reading this thread with great interest. I've had DVRs since day 1. Before there was TiVo there was Replay. I was an early adopter. Then went to Directv till AT&T ruined them now with Dish Hopper and have about 5 months left on my 2 year contract after I upgraded to the Hopper 3. I'm tired of dealing big media companies so will cut the cord when my contract is up. My first experience with TiVo was getting one for my special needs brother-in-law about 11 years ago which he used till the cable company went digital so he had to go with their box. I just recently got a refurbed Roamio getting ready for the cord cutting transition.

I've always had OTA, when Dish split out the locals I told them to pound rocks, got an OTA module for the Hopper and got some HD Homerun tuners for my Plex server. Problem with the Homerun is you can't watch as it's recording and it's commercial skip isn't perfect but it works for any program. I'm so impressed with the Roamio that I'm going to buy another for my special needs brother (another special needs case) for who cable is a waste of money (as if it isn't always a waste of money) because he only watches the local ABC, NBC, CBS stations, not even Fox.

Now the question is, do i buy another Roamio or do I give him mine and buy an Edge for me? My OTA is in a precarious situation. I live on the wrong side of the mountain in Phoenix AZ, I get my signal via a skip. I've got split VHF, UHF deep fringe antennas with LTE filtered preamp and an FM trap at the antenna because a FM station is over powering Ch 12. It's all on a 48' tower. With much work I'm getting all the channels 99.9 % of the time. The Roamio tuner is working flawlessly. My only problem with the Roamio is that Plex is an important part of my system. The Hopper has a built in media player that plays my Plex server DNLA great. TiVo has no media player????? and the Plex app is glacial on the Roamino. That's why I'd consider the Edge over the Roamino. Does anyone have any experience with the Plex app on the Edge? With more ram and a faster processor I assume that it wouldn't take a week to launch the app like on the Roamino. But the tuners have to be as good as the Roamino. Also I'm not impressed with the reported preroll commercials that the Edge has. What are they thinking??? Supposedly you can call Tivo to get that stopped, has anyone succeeded in that? I might just go with the Roamio, going with what I know works but the Edge is interesting if the tuners are as good as the Roamio.


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## Mikeguy

Hahn Niv said:


> Also I'm not impressed with the reported preroll commercials that the Edge has. What are they thinking??? Supposedly you can call Tivo to get that stopped, has anyone succeeded in that?


People have been successful with that, generally, although a new software download in the past has wiped the exclusion out, necessitating another call to TiVo to get rid of the pre-roll.

Just a further thought: as far as historic TiVo capabilities, the Roamio platform has 'em, while the Edge platform has some limitations. I'm thinking things like, on the TE3 user interface, Suggestions (that works), the ability to transfer shows between boxes and have them actually play as they should, on-box show transfer capability, the Live Guide interface, and the ability to transfer shows to/from the TiVo box.


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## Pokemon_Dad

Hahn Niv said:


> Now the question is, do i buy another Roamio or do I give him mine and buy an Edge for me?


I am daily confirmed in my opinion that the Roamio series was the best DVR series TiVo will ever produce. I would keep that Roamio, buy a Roamio for your brother, and avoid the headaches of an unfamiliar, unfriendly, and still-buggy new Edge, which won't necessarily run a Plex client app well for long, if ever. I'd instead research recommended Plex clients [link], and put one of those on another input to your TV. They're better for streaming too, if you're into that sort of thing, and way ahead of the forthcoming TiVo Stream 4K.


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## Hahn Niv

So that's 2 votes for Roamio. Actually I have 4 TV's in the house. All have OTA tuners, 2 LG's which have an excellent media players, 2 Vizios (crappie Tvs) that have Fire TV sticks so the individual TV's are covered. The Tivo is hooked to the main TV (LG OLED) but also to a whole house distribution system which at times like mornings, bedroom, living room and kitchen TV's are all on the same program coming off the Plex DVR, "ABC News This Morning" recorded and commercials removed at 4 am to be viewed as we move around the house, stretching getting ready for the morning run. Also after dinner, moving between the kitchen (doing dishes) and living room, have 2 Tvs on at the same time. That is when the Tivo DNLA would be needed. Not a big deal but it's convenient and what we are used to. I've looked into the Mini Vox, not sure if you can tune in several Tvs to the same thing at the same time, but I don't like tying up tuners to the mini, I want all turners available for recording and at $180 a pop and the current distribution system works very very well . . . I've still got time before the Hopper goes away to figure this out.


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## bruce316

I have a Roamio and also the Edge that I use for OTA and I like them both. The tuners in the Edge have worked just as well as my Roamio, if not better, and it has worked perfect with zero bugs or problems. I think you would be happy with either one for your OTA use. The preroll commercials are easy to skip with the press of a button but if something like that would annoy you then stick with the Roamio, you can use TE3 and avoid all that. I personally like the new interface (TE4) but some people don't, it's something you have to decide for yourself. I would not use a tivo as a plex client or for streaming other services. I use an Apple tv for those things and I would recommend that or one of the others (Roku, Firestick, etc) which work great for that purpose.


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## Hahn Niv

This is going to replace a all in one box so I'm looking for the same functionality. When I was with Directv I thought the Genie was cool but it pails compared to the Hopper. Hopper is the best all round box. Unfortunately it comes with Dish. In just a week with Tivo I see how clunky the DVR interface is on the Hopper but it's DNLA media server and built in apps put everything in one spot. Each TV in my house has a streaming box. Main TV is a LG with Apple TV. Both the Hopper and now Tivo are directly hooked into HDML ports. The Hopper has a HDML and component outputs so the HDML goes to the LG, component goes to a component to HDML converter to a distribution box that goes to the other 3 Tvs via a dedicated ethernet network (I try to avoid wireless stuff) Now with the Tivo I've put in a splitter for the Tivo & a HDML switch so either can go out to the network. Other Tvs have Amazon Fire sticks. The Hopper and now Tivo comes in via the distribution network at 1080p, all other streaming stuff via the Fire Stick when your just watching that TV. The Hopper media player and apps are only used when I want the same thing on multiple Tvs. I've never been impressed with the Plex app, never use it because I've always had DNLA media players on the Hopper and the Tvs. LG's media player is excellent. 

I was hoping that when the Hopper went away so would the HDML switch, it's just another possible point of failure. But unless the Youtube app on the Tivo supports their streaming service, not just the home cat videos I suppose I'm going to have to put a Roku box in there for the whole house network. Can't use Fire Stick because it doesn't support IR (Harmony remotes at all Tvs) and Apple TV is too expensive for this purpose. It's also 1080p the distribution network doesn't support 4K which would be overkill anyway. All the Tvs do a good job of up-converting to 4K. 

Does the YouTube app on Tivo support their streaming service? That is what I'm going to use for sports and the cable channels. If so that might push me towards the Edge with more memory and faster processor. What I will miss most about the Hopper is it's Quad screen (great for watching 4 college football games at once) and their game finder app. It list all the scores of all the games in the sports that you select and you can switch back and forth between them. You can go to the close games and avoid the blow outs.


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## Pokemon_Dad

Hahn Niv said:


> Does the YouTube app on Tivo support their streaming service?


Not on one of their DVRs. Maybe on the forthcoming TiVo Stream 4K dongle. It's supposed to launch in April, though products announced at CES usually come to market in the fall, and TiVo has been known to disappoint us. The Stream 4K is disappointing from the get-go anyway, as it was not announced with a TiVo DVR client app, though that may turn up eventually.



Hahn Niv said:


> I've never been impressed with the Plex app,


Have you looked at Channels DVR as a replacement for both TiVo and Plex? Channels supports HD HomeRun OTA/cable, a good portion of TV Everywhere access, and Live TV streaming from YouTube TV, Hulu, etc. They've now released a beta local media library feature too. It's not as pretty as Plex, but I like it much better. Works with most of the usual platforms, except Roku.



Hahn Niv said:


> What I will miss most about the Hopper is it's Quad screen


Not the same thing, but do you know about QuadStream for tvOS ?


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## Hahn Niv

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Have you looked at Channels DVR as a replacement for both TiVo and Plex?


I've got a lifetime Plex Pass so I'm pretty well hooked into Plex. Also I never use the Plex app unless I end up using it on the Tivo. I'm using the server and the DVR service which have been working great for me via DNLA media players that I've been using.



Pokemon_Dad said:


> do you know about QuadStream for tvOS ?


WOW that is very interesting. I will definitely be looking into that! Thanks for the head up.


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## CZBrat

T1vo_Chris said:


> I've been a Tivo user for a while and my experience has gotten worse over the years. I started with an HD, had a Roamio that died. It got replaced by a Bolt and then another Bolt. Currently, I just use it to record OTA content and use Roku for everything else. I live in a major urban area and my signals are pretty good, but the Bolt can't seem to lock in on the signal despite another TV in my house without a Tivo connected, working just fine. I've gone through support and they tell me I need better signals, but from what I can figure out, the 4 tuner card is splitting the signal and thus reducing the quality. I don't think the problem is on my end. I have a huge old school antenna in my attic and also a Mohu Leaf that I've tried with and without a powered boost. It isn't consistent. I've even watched a show live that Tivo said it couldn't record due to no signal. Crazy. My channel signals are usually in the 60's, sometimes up to 72.
> 
> Anyway, will the Edge be better in this regard, or will it be the same old story? I'm willing to chalk up these issues to the Bolt being a piece of garbage. I am considering trying to the new Edge, and also I'd lower my monthly cost a bit. Are the tuners upgraded or better on the Edge? Does anyone have any insight into if this will be an improvement for just OTA recording?


Save your money. Edge is a disaster. I have 4 Tivos, long term customer. Tivo has abandoned its core base for streaming stick. Vudu app is advertised as available on Edge. It's not. New Hulu app does not work. Disney App will never be available on Tivo. Right now my goal of having one central TV viewing experience for both live and streaming does not work. To watch Disney we switch to Apple TV. To watch our Vudu library we do the same. Tivo is rapidly becoming irrelevant and it's sad to see. Don't waste any of your dollars.

Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk


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## Fugacity

T1vo_Chris said:


> nyway, will the Edge be better in this regard, or will it be the same old story?


I think the problem with getting a new OTA device is that ATSC 3.0 rollout to some stations is supposed to start happening this year. It could be another CES lie, and in my area I haven't seen stations commit to dates but to stations have plans to go that route soon and nothing Tivo has can to ATSC 3.0. They would need to create the product Ted demoed in the past as a gateway device or just use a usb tuner dongle and update their code to support it. But it seemed like at one point the gateway was preferred since that is what he showed off.

Its hard to know your antenna situation, but if the TV is fine and the tivo isn't some sort of preamp might help. The Bolt has essentially a 4way splitter in it, and I'm not sure if they apply an amplifier after receiving the signal. In messing around with a Silicon Dust HDHomerun I found it was more picky than the cable going to the TV for similar reasons. Its hard to just recommend amplifying stuff because I don't know what antenna you have, where it is, and I don't have a lot of experience getting other peoples stuff to work, I have just tinkered with mine. Also you could have VHF and low UHF which can make things harder. It sounded like the towers were close so amplifying the signal can make it much worse. But you could always attenuate it a bit near the tivo if that happened.


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